From akb+lists.cctalk@mirror.to Sun Jun 1 08:18:34 2025 From: Andrew B To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] What was this AT&T SCSI enclosure for? Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2025 04:10:45 -0400 Message-ID: <0qcybndgqi.fsf@mirror.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8529711196904623094==" --===============8529711196904623094== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have an AT&T branded SCSI enclosure. Two half-height bays with the drives held vertically (on their sides), with a door that opens to expose one for a tape drive, activity lights labeled hard drive and tape, CN50 connectors, the AT&T beige and brown color scheme I associate with 3B's and 6300 PCs. No model number. Anyone have any idea what this was made for? --===============8529711196904623094==-- From cz@alembic.crystel.com Sun Jun 1 14:04:54 2025 From: Christopher Zach To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What was this AT&T SCSI enclosure for? Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2025 10:04:41 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0qcybndgqi.fsf@mirror.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0570517882841412718==" --===============0570517882841412718== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sounds like a box for a 7300. Pics?=20 On June 1, 2025 4:10:45 AM EDT, Andrew B via cctalk = wrote: > >I have an AT&T branded SCSI enclosure. Two half-height bays with the >drives held vertically (on their sides), with a door that opens to >expose one for a tape drive, activity lights labeled hard drive and >tape, CN50 connectors, the AT&T beige and brown >color scheme I associate with 3B's and 6300 PCs. No model number.=20 >Anyone have any idea what this was made for?=20 > --===============0570517882841412718==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Sun Jun 1 15:18:30 2025 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What was this AT&T SCSI enclosure for? Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2025 11:18:12 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0qcybndgqi.fsf@mirror.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3917950947824907924==" --===============3917950947824907924== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My guess AT&T had scsi era hardware, not super successful, that they sold or re-badged to extend the life of their product line. Would a 3B2 or UNIX PC have a scsi controller for an external storage device? Maybe AT&T sold something compatible with Sun hardware to try to tap into the scsi storage market, for a telecommunications product On Sun, Jun 1, 2025 at 10:53=E2=80=AFAM Andrew B via cctalk wrote: > > I have an AT&T branded SCSI enclosure. Two half-height bays with the > drives held vertically (on their sides), with a door that opens to > expose one for a tape drive, activity lights labeled hard drive and > tape, CN50 connectors, the AT&T beige and brown > color scheme I associate with 3B's and 6300 PCs. No model number. > Anyone have any idea what this was made for? > > --===============3917950947824907924==-- From merlyn@geeks.org Sun Jun 1 16:13:53 2025 From: Doug McIntyre To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What was this AT&T SCSI enclosure for? Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2025 11:07:13 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5045748287499579646==" --===============5045748287499579646== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The 3B1 (ie. UNIX PC) did not do SCSI. That was an MFM system. THe 3B2 lower end models were MFM, and higher end were SCSI based systems, al= though I don't remember any external SCSI ports on them. There's an AT&T SCSI external shoebox Tape drive listed on eBay now. I'd say its likely that they were done for the 3B2.. http://www.unixwiz.net/3b2/tapedrives.html On Sun, Jun 01, 2025 at 11:18:12AM -0400, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > My guess AT&T had scsi era hardware, not super successful, that they sold > or re-badged to extend the life of their product line. Would a 3B2 or UNIX > PC have a scsi controller for an external storage device? Maybe AT&T sold > something compatible with Sun hardware to try to tap into the scsi storage > market, for a telecommunications product >=20 > On Sun, Jun 1, 2025 at 10:53=E2=80=AFAM Andrew B via cctalk > wrote: >=20 > > > > I have an AT&T branded SCSI enclosure. Two half-height bays with the > > drives held vertically (on their sides), with a door that opens to > > expose one for a tape drive, activity lights labeled hard drive and > > tape, CN50 connectors, the AT&T beige and brown > > color scheme I associate with 3B's and 6300 PCs. No model number. > > Anyone have any idea what this was made for? > > > > --===============5045748287499579646==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Sun Jun 1 23:52:55 2025 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What was this AT&T SCSI enclosure for? Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2025 19:52:31 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0620781298575845027==" --===============0620781298575845027== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 6/1/2025 10:04 AM, Christopher Zach via cctalk wrote: > Sounds like a box for a 7300. Pics? > Pics might be nice. Based on the color description I was thinking 3B2. I had a half dozen 7300's but I never saw a SCSI card for the 7300 and I don't remember brown in the color scheme other than the discoloration caused by smokers owning them. :-) bill --===============0620781298575845027==-- From cz@alembic.crystel.com Mon Jun 2 01:26:06 2025 From: cz To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What was this AT&T SCSI enclosure for? Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2025 21:25:55 -0400 Message-ID: <8437e7a3-4562-4db8-ac31-ce28624ecaf2@alembic.crystel.com> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CLV8P221MB14692AB10F9A670F7D52386EED63A=40LV8P221MB?= =?utf-8?q?1469=2ENAMP221=2EPROD=2EOUTLOOK=2ECOM=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6956749351445481923==" --===============6956749351445481923== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit He sent me a picture, not the same color or design scheme as my 7300's external tape drive. Which I really have to try using sometime.... C On 6/1/2025 7:52 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > > On 6/1/2025 10:04 AM, Christopher Zach via cctalk wrote: >> Sounds like a box for a 7300. Pics? >> > > Pics might be nice.  Based on the color description I > was thinking 3B2.  I had a half dozen 7300's but I never > saw a SCSI card for the 7300 and I don't remember brown > in the color scheme other than the discoloration caused > by smokers owning them.  :-) > > bill > --===============6956749351445481923==-- From akb+lists.cctalk@mirror.to Mon Jun 2 03:01:24 2025 From: Andrew B To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What was this AT&T SCSI enclosure for? Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2025 23:01:18 -0400 Message-ID: <0q4iwydeyp.fsf@mirror.to> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3626061220051382906==" --===============3626061220051382906== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here's a pic: https://jumpshare.com/s/lsa1xlnzYYOwUgUfkphK The door built into the front plus the whole housing being fairly deep makes me think it was intended some flavor of QIC drive. That shoebox on ebay is a different mystery!=20 DB-25 connectors with an Exabyte, weird.=20 Doug McIntyre via cctalk writes: > The 3B1 (ie. UNIX PC) did not do SCSI. That was an MFM system. > THe 3B2 lower end models were MFM, and higher end were SCSI based > systems, although > I don't remember any external SCSI ports on them. > > There's an AT&T SCSI external shoebox Tape drive listed on eBay now. > > I'd say its likely that they were done for the 3B2.. > http://www.unixwiz.net/3b2/tapedrives.html > > > On Sun, Jun 01, 2025 at 11:18:12AM -0400, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: >> My guess AT&T had scsi era hardware, not super successful, that they sold >> or re-badged to extend the life of their product line. Would a 3B2 or UNIX >> PC have a scsi controller for an external storage device? Maybe AT&T sold >> something compatible with Sun hardware to try to tap into the scsi storage >> market, for a telecommunications product >>=20 >> On Sun, Jun 1, 2025 at 10:53=E2=80=AFAM Andrew B via cctalk >> wrote: >>=20 >> > >> > I have an AT&T branded SCSI enclosure. Two half-height bays with the >> > drives held vertically (on their sides), with a door that opens to >> > expose one for a tape drive, activity lights labeled hard drive and >> > tape, CN50 connectors, the AT&T beige and brown >> > color scheme I associate with 3B's and 6300 PCs. No model number. >> > Anyone have any idea what this was made for? >> > >> > --===============3626061220051382906==-- From seefriek@gmail.com Mon Jun 2 11:09:14 2025 From: Ken Seefried To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What was this AT&T SCSI enclosure for? Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2025 07:08:58 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0q4iwydeyp.fsf@mirror.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1556685574133496043==" --===============1556685574133496043== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Jun 1, 2025 at 11:08=E2=80=AFPM Andrew B via cctalk wrote: > > Here's a pic: https://jumpshare.com/s/lsa1xlnzYYOwUgUfkphK > > > Seems like the 6300 aesthetic more than the 3B style. KJ --===============1556685574133496043==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Mon Jun 2 11:38:59 2025 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What was this AT&T SCSI enclosure for? Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2025 07:38:42 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7280036150713946469==" --===============7280036150713946469== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What you really need is the SCSI controller compatible with the drive and the system that needs an SCSI peripheral. I'd check business magazines like ComputerWorld to see if they have business ads for this unit. They might have been very pricey at the time, not a consumer product. Bill On Mon, Jun 2, 2025 at 7:18=E2=80=AFAM Ken Seefried via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Sun, Jun 1, 2025 at 11:08=E2=80=AFPM Andrew B via cctalk > > wrote: > > > > > Here's a pic: https://jumpshare.com/s/lsa1xlnzYYOwUgUfkphK > > > > > > > Seems like the 6300 aesthetic more than the 3B style. > > KJ > --===============7280036150713946469==-- From rws@mst269.org Mon Jun 2 14:14:53 2025 From: Richard Schauer To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What was this AT&T SCSI enclosure for? Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2025 09:09:38 -0500 Message-ID: <7e66a3b5a7575109023e4c85911d0945@mst269.org> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2939780306674043098==" --===============2939780306674043098== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 2025-06-02 06:08, Ken Seefried via cctalk wrote: > On Sun, Jun 1, 2025 at 11:08 PM Andrew B via cctalk > > wrote: >> Here's a pic: https://jumpshare.com/s/lsa1xlnzYYOwUgUfkphK > Seems like the 6300 aesthetic more than the 3B style. Can confirm, I have one of those attached to one of my 6300s. Worked fine last time I used it. Richard KF9VP --===============2939780306674043098==-- From ukheliman0@gmail.com Mon Jun 2 15:28:09 2025 From: ukheliman0@gmail.com To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] SCSI <-> Pertec Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2025 16:27:55 +0100 Message-ID: <01e301dbd3d2$ea4eb060$beec1120$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0763262091386297593==" --===============0763262091386297593== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I am looking for a SCSI to Pertec interface for my Qualstar 3400 drive or the= Qualstar SCSI PCB for the same.=20 Does anyone have anything suitable they would like to sell? Thanks Sean --===============0763262091386297593==-- From akb+lists.cctalk@mirror.to Mon Jun 2 18:26:18 2025 From: Andrew B To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What was this AT&T SCSI enclosure for? Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2025 14:26:10 -0400 Message-ID: <0qv7peatkt.fsf@mirror.to> In-Reply-To: <7e66a3b5a7575109023e4c85911d0945@mst269.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2909520226131274528==" --===============2909520226131274528== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Richard Schauer via cctalk writes: > On 2025-06-02 06:08, Ken Seefried via cctalk wrote: >> On Sun, Jun 1, 2025 at 11:08 PM Andrew B via cctalk >> >> wrote: > >>> Here's a pic: https://jumpshare.com/s/lsa1xlnzYYOwUgUfkphK > >> Seems like the 6300 aesthetic more than the 3B style. > > Can confirm, I have one of those attached to one of my 6300s. Worked > fine last time I used it. > > Richard KF9VP Cool, thanks! --===============2909520226131274528==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Mon Jun 2 18:26:43 2025 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What was this AT&T SCSI enclosure for? Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2025 14:26:26 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <7e66a3b5a7575109023e4c85911d0945@mst269.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0365598869141478185==" --===============0365598869141478185== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Do you know the controller model number? On Mon, Jun 2, 2025 at 10:38 AM Richard Schauer via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 2025-06-02 06:08, Ken Seefried via cctalk wrote: > > On Sun, Jun 1, 2025 at 11:08 PM Andrew B via cctalk > > > > wrote: > > >> Here's a pic: https://jumpshare.com/s/lsa1xlnzYYOwUgUfkphK > > > Seems like the 6300 aesthetic more than the 3B style. > > Can confirm, I have one of those attached to one of my 6300s. Worked > fine last time I used it. > > Richard KF9VP > --===============0365598869141478185==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Tue Jun 3 00:21:31 2025 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What was this AT&T SCSI enclosure for? Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2025 20:21:09 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0qv7peatkt.fsf@mirror.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1475422142123623040==" --===============1475422142123623040== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 6/2/2025 2:26 PM, Andrew B via cctalk wrote: > > Richard Schauer via cctalk writes: >> On 2025-06-02 06:08, Ken Seefried via cctalk wrote: >>> On Sun, Jun 1, 2025 at 11:08 PM Andrew B via cctalk >>> >>> wrote: >> >>>> Here's a pic: https://jumpshare.com/s/lsa1xlnzYYOwUgUfkphK >> >>> Seems like the 6300 aesthetic more than the 3B style. >> >> Can confirm, I have one of those attached to one of my 6300s. Worked >> fine last time I used it. >> >> Richard KF9VP > > Cool, thanks! Wasn't the 6300 not AT&T at all but just a rebadged Olivetti PC? bill --===============1475422142123623040==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Tue Jun 3 01:20:23 2025 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What was this AT&T SCSI enclosure for? Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2025 21:20:03 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CLV8P221MB1469DE1A2B91519F2165E2FEED6DA=40LV8P221MB?= =?utf-8?q?1469=2ENAMP221=2EPROD=2EOUTLOOK=2ECOM=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4340042482078820579==" --===============4340042482078820579== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Now I want to know what SCSI card they put into a 6300. Does anyone here have a working 6300 with SCSI card and SCSI peripheral running? Bill On Mon, Jun 2, 2025 at 8:28 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > On 6/2/2025 2:26 PM, Andrew B via cctalk wrote: > > > > Richard Schauer via cctalk writes: > >> On 2025-06-02 06:08, Ken Seefried via cctalk wrote: > >>> On Sun, Jun 1, 2025 at 11:08 PM Andrew B via cctalk > >>> > >>> wrote: > >> > >>>> Here's a pic: https://jumpshare.com/s/lsa1xlnzYYOwUgUfkphK > >> > >>> Seems like the 6300 aesthetic more than the 3B style. > >> > >> Can confirm, I have one of those attached to one of my 6300s. Worked > >> fine last time I used it. > >> > >> Richard KF9VP > > > > Cool, thanks! > > Wasn't the 6300 not AT&T at all but just a rebadged Olivetti PC? > > bill > --===============4340042482078820579==-- From rws@mst269.org Tue Jun 3 03:28:54 2025 From: Richard Schauer To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What was this AT&T SCSI enclosure for? Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2025 22:23:42 -0500 Message-ID: <4dda7135e9090a04fcca49a728301ef0@mst269.org> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4381957182883169534==" --===============4381957182883169534== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 2025-06-02 13:26, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > Do you know the controller model number? OK, I tore into mine tonight. Here's what I see. My machine is a PC 6300, the CPU 2 model. (I have three of these, and another of them was marked CPU 3/X. Didn't check the third.) It was built in 12/84 by Olivetti in Italy. The two cables from the drive enclosure go to DB-25 female connectors on two separate cards. In fact, it appears that other than sharing an enclosure and power supply, the two drives have nothing to do with each other. The disk controller (marked with a red dot on the connector on my machine) was made in 1987. It is a 1/3-length card, a WD1002A-WX1. There are flying wire ends of a ribbon cable from the data and control header plugs to the DB-25 connector, which is in a separate slot from the card. Looks like a pretty standard MFM controller to me, not SCSI in any way. The tape controller (marked with a green dot on the connector on my machine) was made in 1986. It is a full-length card, a Wangtek 30006-007 rev C. It has an 8085, 8257, 6264 SRAM, 2764 EPROM, what appears to be a chipset of 2x CF40100BN, 1x CF40101N, and 1x CF40102N, and some PALS marked Everex. I couldn't Google up what those CF4010... ICs do very readily, although several sellers claim to have some. There are two cards which are almost identical on Ebay right now, items 393821606763 and 201549538949, although neither of them has the DB-25 connector on the bracket. On mine it goes to a ribbon cable, which goes into the header by means of flying wire ends. The drive enclosure is an AT&T Comcode 405117714 (I guess I'd take that to be a model number, since there isn't any other), with FCC ID CLP77N187072. It is made in USA and contains a 20 MB hard drive and a 60 MB (or 67 MB according to the Iotamat tape I have in mine) tape drive. It occurs to me that although I occasionally see AT&T 7300/3B1 systems, I rarely see 6300s. Somehow I happened onto the three that I have a long time ago and that was it. Richard KF9VP --===============4381957182883169534==-- From imp@bsdimp.com Tue Jun 3 03:55:08 2025 From: Warner Losh To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What was this AT&T SCSI enclosure for? Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2025 21:54:48 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4dda7135e9090a04fcca49a728301ef0@mst269.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5356404277684727786==" --===============5356404277684727786== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Mon, Jun 2, 2025, 8:38 PM Richard Schauer via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 2025-06-02 13:26, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > Do you know the controller model number? > > OK, I tore into mine tonight. Here's what I see. > > My machine is a PC 6300, the CPU 2 model. (I have three of these, and > another of them was marked CPU 3/X. Didn't check the third.) It was > built in 12/84 by Olivetti in Italy. > > The two cables from the drive enclosure go to DB-25 female connectors on > two separate cards. In fact, it appears that other than sharing an > enclosure and power supply, the two drives have nothing to do with each > other. > > The disk controller (marked with a red dot on the connector on my > machine) was made in 1987. It is a 1/3-length card, a WD1002A-WX1. > There are flying wire ends of a ribbon cable from the data and control > header plugs to the DB-25 connector, which is in a separate slot from > the card. Looks like a pretty standard MFM controller to me, not SCSI > in any way. > The wd1002 cards did sasi or scsi to MFM. I have on that went to my DEC Rainbow univation controller... Warner The tape controller (marked with a green dot on the connector on my > machine) was made in 1986. It is a full-length card, a Wangtek > 30006-007 rev C. It has an 8085, 8257, 6264 SRAM, 2764 EPROM, what > appears to be a chipset of 2x CF40100BN, 1x CF40101N, and 1x CF40102N, > and some PALS marked Everex. I couldn't Google up what those CF4010... > ICs do very readily, although several sellers claim to have some. There > are two cards which are almost identical on Ebay right now, items > 393821606763 and 201549538949, although neither of them has the DB-25 > connector on the bracket. On mine it goes to a ribbon cable, which goes > into the header by means of flying wire ends. > > The drive enclosure is an AT&T Comcode 405117714 (I guess I'd take that > to be a model number, since there isn't any other), with FCC ID > CLP77N187072. It is made in USA and contains a 20 MB hard drive and a > 60 MB (or 67 MB according to the Iotamat tape I have in mine) tape > drive. > > It occurs to me that although I occasionally see AT&T 7300/3B1 systems, > I rarely see 6300s. Somehow I happened onto the three that I have a > long time ago and that was it. > > Richard KF9VP > --===============5356404277684727786==-- From bitwiz@12bitsbest.com Tue Jun 3 04:29:55 2025 From: Mike Katz To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] ASR-33 Help and Parts Needed Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2025 23:29:46 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3475727607446802863==" --===============3475727607446802863== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I was given an ASR-33 complete with stand, read & punch. This ASR-33 has been modified for RS-232 though a blue perfboard mounted in the connection enclosure (under the cover place where the dialer would be. Is has a DB25 ribbon cable coming off of this board.  The perfboard does not have a label on it that I can find. The ASR-33 also has a 3 x 5 conductor rectangular connector coming out of the read of the unit with 6 female contacts installed. I was able to connect the ARS-33 to a VT-330+ at 110B 8-N-2 and send and receive on the teletype. The punch seems to work as well. The reader will "chatter" then the reader is put in the stop position and the tape out sensor is pressed but the sprocket does not advance and the reader pins to not move. Questions: 1. Why the reader is not advancing and the pins are not activating?  Could this be a read enable contact not being in the active position? 2. What are the outs of the RS-232 DB-25.  Other than TX, RX and GND 3. What are the pin outs of the 3 x 5 rectangular connector. I think this is the current loop and other control signals. Does any any of the items below for sale or have a 3D model I can print: 1. Roll Paper spindle (the spindle that the roll paper spins on) 2. Paper Tape Punch Spindle (the spindle that the paper tape spins on) 3. Paper Tape Chad feed tube 4. Paper Tape Chad Box I will be connecting this to either a PiDP-8/I or a PDP-8/E for now and eventually a PDP-8/L Thank you,      Mike --===============3475727607446802863==-- From bitwiz@12bitsbest.com Tue Jun 3 04:39:52 2025 From: Mike Katz To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] ASR-33 Help and Parts Needed - corrected message Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2025 23:33:10 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4900828968085621340==" --===============4900828968085621340== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I was given an ASR-33 complete with stand, reader & punch. This ASR-33 has been modified for RS-232 though a blue perfboard mounted in the connection enclosure (under the cover place where the dialer would be on the right side). It has a DB25 ribbon cable coming off of this board.  The perfboard does not have a label on it that I can find. The ASR-33 also has a 3 x 5 conductor rectangular connector coming out of the rear of the unit with 6 female contacts installed. I was able to connect the ARS-33 to a VT-330+ at 110B 8-N-2 and send and receive on the teletype. The punch seems to work as well. The reader will "chatter" then the reader is put in the start position and the tape out sensor is pressed but the sprocket does not advance and the reader pins to not move. Questions: 1. Why the reader is not advancing and the pins are not activating?  Could this be a read enable contact not being in the active position? 2. What are the pin outs of the RS-232 DB-25.  Other than TX, RX and GND 3. What are the pin outs of the 3 x 5 rectangular connector. I think this is the current loop and other control signals. Does any one of the items below for sale or have a 3D model I can print: 1. Roll Paper spindle (the spindle that the roll paper spins on) 2. Paper Tape Punch Spindle (the spindle that the paper tape spins on) 3. Paper Tape Chad feed tube 4. Paper Tape Chad Box I will be connecting this to either a PiDP-8/I or a PDP-8/E for now and eventually a PDP-8/L Thank you,      Mike --===============4900828968085621340==-- From akb+lists.cctalk@mirror.to Tue Jun 3 07:12:44 2025 From: Andrew B To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What was this AT&T SCSI enclosure for? Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2025 03:07:15 -0400 Message-ID: <0qh60xb8ws.fsf@mirror.to> In-Reply-To: <4dda7135e9090a04fcca49a728301ef0@mst269.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0601128173724815364==" --===============0601128173724815364== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks very much for the additional info! Does your drive enclosure have DB-25's on the back, or only on the ISA cards with DB-25 to CN-50 cables connecting the enclosure? Where are the Comcode and FCC ID's on yours? I don't think mine has those. My drive enclosure has a pair of CN50s connected by a ribbon cable with two internal IDC header connectors, looks like a vanilla SCSI configuration with the two drives on the same bus. Strangely, mine has only a single molex power drop, perhaps there was originally a splitter that went missing with the drives. Interestingly, the SCSI cable is flipped in twisted sections so that the drives can be upside down with respect to each other; the orientation tabs for the two IDC connectors point towards each other and towards the center of the enclosure. I counted the pins and traced the wires just to make sure it wasn't a floppy cable. Richard Schauer via cctalk writes: > On 2025-06-02 13:26, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: >> Do you know the controller model number? > > OK, I tore into mine tonight. Here's what I see. > > My machine is a PC 6300, the CPU 2 model. (I have three of these, and > another of them was marked CPU 3/X. Didn't check the third.) It was > built in 12/84 by Olivetti in Italy. > > The two cables from the drive enclosure go to DB-25 female connectors > on two separate cards. In fact, it appears that other than sharing an > enclosure and power supply, the two drives have nothing to do with > each other. > > The disk controller (marked with a red dot on the connector on my > machine) was made in 1987. It is a 1/3-length card, a WD1002A-WX1. > There are flying wire ends of a ribbon cable from the data and control > header plugs to the DB-25 connector, which is in a separate slot from > the card. Looks like a pretty standard MFM controller to me, not SCSI > in any way. > > The tape controller (marked with a green dot on the connector on my > machine) was made in 1986. It is a full-length card, a Wangtek > 30006-007 rev C. It has an 8085, 8257, 6264 SRAM, 2764 EPROM, what > appears to be a chipset of 2x CF40100BN, 1x CF40101N, and 1x CF40102N, > and some PALS marked Everex. I couldn't Google up what those > CF4010... ICs do very readily, although several sellers claim to have > some. There are two cards which are almost identical on Ebay right > now, items 393821606763 and 201549538949, although neither of them has > the DB-25 connector on the bracket. On mine it goes to a ribbon > cable, which goes into the header by means of flying wire ends. > > The drive enclosure is an AT&T Comcode 405117714 (I guess I'd take > that to be a model number, since there isn't any other), with FCC ID > CLP77N187072. It is made in USA and contains a 20 MB hard drive and a > 60 MB (or 67 MB according to the Iotamat tape I have in mine) tape > drive. > > It occurs to me that although I occasionally see AT&T 7300/3B1 > systems, I rarely see 6300s. Somehow I happened onto the three that I > have a long time ago and that was it. > > Richard KF9VP --===============0601128173724815364==-- From ard.p850ug1@gmail.com Tue Jun 3 07:32:09 2025 From: Tony Duell To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What was this AT&T SCSI enclosure for? Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2025 08:31:51 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4dda7135e9090a04fcca49a728301ef0@mst269.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1353920057451721632==" --===============1353920057451721632== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Tue, Jun 3, 2025 at 4:39 AM Richard Schauer via cctalk wrote: > The tape controller (marked with a green dot on the connector on my > machine) was made in 1986. It is a full-length card, a Wangtek > 30006-007 rev C. It has an 8085, 8257, 6264 SRAM, 2764 EPROM, what > appears to be a chipset of 2x CF40100BN, 1x CF40101N, and 1x CF40102N, > and some PALS marked Everex. I think I've come across that chipset on a Wangtek QIC02-QIC36 interface. It's likely your board is for a QIC36 interfaced drive too --===============1353920057451721632==-- From ard.p850ug1@gmail.com Tue Jun 3 07:42:09 2025 From: Tony Duell To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What was this AT&T SCSI enclosure for? Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2025 08:41:51 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4818012638676160074==" --===============4818012638676160074== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Tue, Jun 3, 2025 at 8:31 AM Tony Duell wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 3, 2025 at 4:39 AM Richard Schauer via cctalk > wrote: > > > The tape controller (marked with a green dot on the connector on my > > machine) was made in 1986. It is a full-length card, a Wangtek > > 30006-007 rev C. It has an 8085, 8257, 6264 SRAM, 2764 EPROM, what > > appears to be a chipset of 2x CF40100BN, 1x CF40101N, and 1x CF40102N, > > and some PALS marked Everex. > > I think I've come across that chipset on a Wangtek QIC02-QIC36 > interface. It's likely your board is for a QIC36 interfaced drive too There is some information in the Wangtek 20554-001 'Single Board Formatter OEM manual' and the 20593-001 'PC-36 Controller OEM manual' The latter may be a closely-related board. Available from bitsavers here http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/wangtek/ -tony --===============4818012638676160074==-- From spam@hell.org Tue Jun 3 08:29:27 2025 From: Mike Begley To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What was this AT&T SCSI enclosure for? Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2025 08:29:16 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4dda7135e9090a04fcca49a728301ef0@mst269.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2900180120385802672==" --===============2900180120385802672== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > It occurs to me that although I occasionally see > AT&T 7300/3B1 systems, I rarely see 6300s. Somehow > I happened onto the three that I have a long time ago > and that was it. Interesting - that's my exact opposite experience. I see the 6300s with some= regularity, but I've been keeping a lazy eye out for a 7300/3B1 for a while = without much luck. I have one in pieces in deep storage that I'll never get = rebuilt, but I haven't seen another one pop up close enough to me to pick up. It doesn't help that they're heavy and inconvenient to ship, and pretty delic= ate these days. -mike ________________________________ From: Richard Schauer via cctalk Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2025 5:23:42 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: Richard Schauer Subject: [cctalk] Re: What was this AT&T SCSI enclosure for? On 2025-06-02 13:26, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > Do you know the controller model number? OK, I tore into mine tonight. Here's what I see. My machine is a PC 6300, the CPU 2 model. (I have three of these, and another of them was marked CPU 3/X. Didn't check the third.) It was built in 12/84 by Olivetti in Italy. The two cables from the drive enclosure go to DB-25 female connectors on two separate cards. In fact, it appears that other than sharing an enclosure and power supply, the two drives have nothing to do with each other. The disk controller (marked with a red dot on the connector on my machine) was made in 1987. It is a 1/3-length card, a WD1002A-WX1. There are flying wire ends of a ribbon cable from the data and control header plugs to the DB-25 connector, which is in a separate slot from the card. Looks like a pretty standard MFM controller to me, not SCSI in any way. The tape controller (marked with a green dot on the connector on my machine) was made in 1986. It is a full-length card, a Wangtek 30006-007 rev C. It has an 8085, 8257, 6264 SRAM, 2764 EPROM, what appears to be a chipset of 2x CF40100BN, 1x CF40101N, and 1x CF40102N, and some PALS marked Everex. I couldn't Google up what those CF4010... ICs do very readily, although several sellers claim to have some. There are two cards which are almost identical on Ebay right now, items 393821606763 and 201549538949, although neither of them has the DB-25 connector on the bracket. On mine it goes to a ribbon cable, which goes into the header by means of flying wire ends. The drive enclosure is an AT&T Comcode 405117714 (I guess I'd take that to be a model number, since there isn't any other), with FCC ID CLP77N187072. It is made in USA and contains a 20 MB hard drive and a 60 MB (or 67 MB according to the Iotamat tape I have in mine) tape drive. It occurs to me that although I occasionally see AT&T 7300/3B1 systems, I rarely see 6300s. Somehow I happened onto the three that I have a long time ago and that was it. Richard KF9VP --===============2900180120385802672==-- From akb+lists.cctalk@mirror.to Tue Jun 3 08:38:52 2025 From: Andrew B To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What was this AT&T SCSI enclosure for? Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2025 04:38:46 -0400 Message-ID: <0q8qm9b4o9.fsf@mirror.to> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CLV8P221MB1469DE1A2B91519F2165E2FEED6DA=40LV8P221MB?= =?utf-8?q?1469=2ENAMP221=2EPROD=2EOUTLOOK=2ECOM=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7459120191701950904==" --===============7459120191701950904== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bill Gunshannon via cctalk writes: > On 6/2/2025 2:26 PM, Andrew B via cctalk wrote: >> >> Richard Schauer via cctalk writes: >>> On 2025-06-02 06:08, Ken Seefried via cctalk wrote: >>>> On Sun, Jun 1, 2025 at 11:08 PM Andrew B via cctalk >>>> >>>> wrote: >>> >>>>> Here's a pic: https://jumpshare.com/s/lsa1xlnzYYOwUgUfkphK >>> >>>> Seems like the 6300 aesthetic more than the 3B style. >>> >>> Can confirm, I have one of those attached to one of my 6300s. Worked >>> fine last time I used it. >>> >>> Richard KF9VP >> >> Cool, thanks! > > Wasn't the 6300 not AT&T at all but just a rebadged Olivetti PC? > > bill Yep, Olivetti M24 = AT&T PC 6300 = Xerox 6060 --===============7459120191701950904==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Tue Jun 3 10:22:02 2025 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What was this AT&T SCSI enclosure for? Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2025 06:21:44 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4dda7135e9090a04fcca49a728301ef0@mst269.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3854799702553565113==" --===============3854799702553565113== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Mon, Jun 2, 2025 at 11:39 PM Richard Schauer via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 2025-06-02 13:26, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > Do you know the controller model number? > > OK, I tore into mine tonight. Here's what I see. > > My machine is a PC 6300, the CPU 2 model. (I have three of these, and > another of them was marked CPU 3/X. Didn't check the third.) It was > built in 12/84 by Olivetti in Italy. > > The two cables from the drive enclosure go to DB-25 female connectors on > two separate cards. In fact, it appears that other than sharing an > enclosure and power supply, the two drives have nothing to do with each > other. > > The disk controller (marked with a red dot on the connector on my > machine) was made in 1987. It is a 1/3-length card, a WD1002A-WX1. > There are flying wire ends of a ribbon cable from the data and control > header plugs to the DB-25 connector, which is in a separate slot from > the card. Looks like a pretty standard MFM controller to me, not SCSI > in any way. > > The tape controller (marked with a green dot on the connector on my > machine) was made in 1986. It is a full-length card, a Wangtek > 30006-007 rev C. It has an 8085, 8257, 6264 SRAM, 2764 EPROM, what > appears to be a chipset of 2x CF40100BN, 1x CF40101N, and 1x CF40102N, > and some PALS marked Everex. I couldn't Google up what those CF4010... > ICs do very readily, although several sellers claim to have some. There > are two cards which are almost identical on Ebay right now, items > 393821606763 and 201549538949, although neither of them has the DB-25 > connector on the bracket. On mine it goes to a ribbon cable, which goes > into the header by means of flying wire ends. > > The drive enclosure is an AT&T Comcode 405117714 (I guess I'd take that > to be a model number, since there isn't any other), with FCC ID > CLP77N187072. It is made in USA and contains a 20 MB hard drive and a > 60 MB (or 67 MB according to the Iotamat tape I have in mine) tape > drive. > > It occurs to me that although I occasionally see AT&T 7300/3B1 systems, > I rarely see 6300s. Somehow I happened onto the three that I have a > long time ago and that was it. > > Richard KF9VP Thank you. I just happen to have my 6300 on the table. I have never had issues with it, never needed to open mine for service, or it has been many years. I have owned mine for over 20 years. Bill > > --===============3854799702553565113==-- From rws@mst269.org Tue Jun 3 11:10:23 2025 From: Richard Schauer To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What was this AT&T SCSI enclosure for? Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2025 06:04:23 -0500 Message-ID: <42e7ea14b668ba592221d5d1e2cb9f57@mst269.org> In-Reply-To: <0qh60xb8ws.fsf@mirror.to> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3050354302563351496==" --===============3050354302563351496== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 2025-06-03 02:07, Andrew B via cctalk wrote: > Does your drive enclosure have DB-25's on the back, or only on the ISA > cards with DB-25 to CN-50 cables connecting the enclosure? DB-25s, I would say; they're not big enough to have 50 pins. I can check tonight. > Where are the Comcode and FCC ID's on yours? > I don't think mine has those. Serial number label on the bottom, toward the rear end. Richard KF9VP --===============3050354302563351496==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Tue Jun 3 14:41:31 2025 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ASR-33 Help and Parts Needed - corrected message Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2025 10:41:14 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5110203037179399602==" --===============5110203037179399602== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Do you have a reader run relay board? Bill On Tue, Jun 3, 2025 at 1:03=E2=80=AFAM Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > I was given an ASR-33 complete with stand, reader & punch. > > This ASR-33 has been modified for RS-232 though a blue perfboard mounted > in the connection enclosure (under the cover place where the dialer > would be on the right side). > > It has a DB25 ribbon cable coming off of this board. The perfboard does > not have a label on it that I can find. > > The ASR-33 also has a 3 x 5 conductor rectangular connector coming out > of the rear of the unit with 6 female contacts installed. > > I was able to connect the ARS-33 to a VT-330+ at 110B 8-N-2 and send and > receive on the teletype. > > The punch seems to work as well. > > The reader will "chatter" then the reader is put in the start position > and the tape out sensor is pressed but the sprocket does not advance and > the reader pins to not move. > > Questions: > > 1. Why the reader is not advancing and the pins are not activating? > Could this be a read enable contact not being in the active position? > 2. What are the pin outs of the RS-232 DB-25. Other than TX, RX and GND > 3. What are the pin outs of the 3 x 5 rectangular connector. I think > this is the current loop and other control signals. > > Does any one of the items below for sale or have a 3D model I can print: > > 1. Roll Paper spindle (the spindle that the roll paper spins on) > 2. Paper Tape Punch Spindle (the spindle that the paper tape spins on) > 3. Paper Tape Chad feed tube > 4. Paper Tape Chad Box > > I will be connecting this to either a PiDP-8/I or a PDP-8/E for now and > eventually a PDP-8/L > > Thank you, > > Mike > --===============5110203037179399602==-- From bitwiz@12bitsbest.com Tue Jun 3 18:25:13 2025 From: Mike Katz To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ASR-33 Help and Parts Needed Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2025 13:25:03 -0500 Message-ID: <10ba8170-7495-485b-9333-b1e6689fab42@12bitsbest.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3412587026742992991==" --===============3412587026742992991== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The reader issue is that the reader power pack board is missing. Do any of you have a spare power pack board (183087)  . If I can figure out the voltages I may try to reproduce it. I don't know if the reader power pack board for automatic reader operation (183079) will work or not. I'm still looking for the following items for the ASR-33 rubber hammer (180502) paper spindle (181043) paper tape spindle (183918) paper tape ends (182935) chad box (182924 or 182965) Thank you,                Mike On 6/2/2025 11:29 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > I was given an ASR-33 complete with stand, read & punch. > > This ASR-33 has been modified for RS-232 though a blue perfboard > mounted in the connection enclosure (under the cover place where the > dialer would be. > > Is has a DB25 ribbon cable coming off of this board.  The perfboard > does not have a label on it that I can find. > > The ASR-33 also has a 3 x 5 conductor rectangular connector coming out > of the read of the unit with 6 female contacts installed. > > I was able to connect the ARS-33 to a VT-330+ at 110B 8-N-2 and send > and receive on the teletype. > > The punch seems to work as well. > > The reader will "chatter" then the reader is put in the stop position > and the tape out sensor is pressed but the sprocket does not advance > and the reader pins to not move. > > Questions: > > 1. Why the reader is not advancing and the pins are not activating? >    Could this be a read enable contact not being in the active position? > 2. What are the outs of the RS-232 DB-25.  Other than TX, RX and GND > 3. What are the pin outs of the 3 x 5 rectangular connector. I think >    this is the current loop and other control signals. > > Does any any of the items below for sale or have a 3D model I can print: > > 1. Roll Paper spindle (the spindle that the roll paper spins on) > 2. Paper Tape Punch Spindle (the spindle that the paper tape spins on) > 3. Paper Tape Chad feed tube > 4. Paper Tape Chad Box > > I will be connecting this to either a PiDP-8/I or a PDP-8/E for now > and eventually a PDP-8/L > > Thank you, > >      Mike > > > > --===============3412587026742992991==-- From frank@artair.com Tue Jun 3 18:54:53 2025 From: Frank Smith To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ASR-33 Help and Parts Needed Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2025 13:46:45 -0500 Message-ID: <0B70556E-CE6D-4B32-A8ED-5BABA38DD230@artair.com> In-Reply-To: <10ba8170-7495-485b-9333-b1e6689fab42@12bitsbest.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3534466455666394477==" --===============3534466455666394477== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You might want to try asking on the greenkeys mailing list on qth.net that sp= ecializes in old teleprinter gear. I know a few years ago someone there made = a mold and reproduced the rubber print hammers for the 33, and there were als= o many other collectors and former Teletype service engineers on the list tha= t would help with troubleshooting and providing pointers to parts sources. Good luck, Frank > On Jun 3, 2025, at 1:33=E2=80=AFPM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFThe reader issue is that the reader power pack board is missing. >=20 > Do any of you have a spare power pack board (183087) . >=20 > If I can figure out the voltages I may try to reproduce it. >=20 > I don't know if the reader power pack board for automatic reader operation = (183079) will work or not. >=20 > I'm still looking for the following items for the ASR-33 >=20 > rubber hammer (180502) > paper spindle (181043) > paper tape spindle (183918) > paper tape ends (182935) > chad box (182924 or 182965) >=20 > Thank you, >=20 > Mike >=20 >=20 >> On 6/2/2025 11:29 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: >> I was given an ASR-33 complete with stand, read & punch. >>=20 >> This ASR-33 has been modified for RS-232 though a blue perfboard mounted i= n the connection enclosure (under the cover place where the dialer would be. >>=20 >> Is has a DB25 ribbon cable coming off of this board. The perfboard does n= ot have a label on it that I can find. >>=20 >> The ASR-33 also has a 3 x 5 conductor rectangular connector coming out of = the read of the unit with 6 female contacts installed. >>=20 >> I was able to connect the ARS-33 to a VT-330+ at 110B 8-N-2 and send and r= eceive on the teletype. >>=20 >> The punch seems to work as well. >>=20 >> The reader will "chatter" then the reader is put in the stop position and = the tape out sensor is pressed but the sprocket does not advance and the read= er pins to not move. >>=20 >> Questions: >>=20 >> 1. Why the reader is not advancing and the pins are not activating? >> Could this be a read enable contact not being in the active position? >> 2. What are the outs of the RS-232 DB-25. Other than TX, RX and GND >> 3. What are the pin outs of the 3 x 5 rectangular connector. I think >> this is the current loop and other control signals. >>=20 >> Does any any of the items below for sale or have a 3D model I can print: >>=20 >> 1. Roll Paper spindle (the spindle that the roll paper spins on) >> 2. Paper Tape Punch Spindle (the spindle that the paper tape spins on) >> 3. Paper Tape Chad feed tube >> 4. Paper Tape Chad Box >>=20 >> I will be connecting this to either a PiDP-8/I or a PDP-8/E for now and ev= entually a PDP-8/L >>=20 >> Thank you, >>=20 >> Mike >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 --===============3534466455666394477==-- From frank@artair.com Tue Jun 3 19:14:16 2025 From: Frank Smith To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ASR-33 Help and Parts Needed Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2025 14:14:00 -0500 Message-ID: <1DB8FC19-1260-48DF-B1C9-42FE32AB0DFF@artair.com> In-Reply-To: <0B70556E-CE6D-4B32-A8ED-5BABA38DD230@artair.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5089721444062974922==" --===============5089721444062974922== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Also, don=E2=80=99t try to print without the rubber print hammer, the typefac= e metal is softer than the metal of the print hammer, and without the rubber = hammer in place you will quickly flatten out the letters. A small piece of vi= nyl tubing can work as a temporary substitute. Frank > On Jun 3, 2025, at 2:03=E2=80=AFPM, Frank Smith via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFYou might want to try asking on the greenkeys mailing list on qth.= net that specializes in old teleprinter gear. I know a few years ago someone = there made a mold and reproduced the rubber print hammers for the 33, and the= re were also many other collectors and former Teletype service engineers on t= he list that would help with troubleshooting and providing pointers to parts = sources. >=20 > Good luck, > Frank >=20 >> On Jun 3, 2025, at 1:33=E2=80=AFPM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: >>=20 >> =EF=BB=BFThe reader issue is that the reader power pack board is missing. >>=20 >> Do any of you have a spare power pack board (183087) . >>=20 >> If I can figure out the voltages I may try to reproduce it. >>=20 >> I don't know if the reader power pack board for automatic reader operation= (183079) will work or not. >>=20 >> I'm still looking for the following items for the ASR-33 >>=20 >> rubber hammer (180502) >> paper spindle (181043) >> paper tape spindle (183918) >> paper tape ends (182935) >> chad box (182924 or 182965) >>=20 >> Thank you, >>=20 >> Mike >>=20 >>=20 >>>> On 6/2/2025 11:29 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: >>> I was given an ASR-33 complete with stand, read & punch. >>>=20 >>> This ASR-33 has been modified for RS-232 though a blue perfboard mounted = in the connection enclosure (under the cover place where the dialer would be. >>>=20 >>> Is has a DB25 ribbon cable coming off of this board. The perfboard does = not have a label on it that I can find. >>>=20 >>> The ASR-33 also has a 3 x 5 conductor rectangular connector coming out of= the read of the unit with 6 female contacts installed. >>>=20 >>> I was able to connect the ARS-33 to a VT-330+ at 110B 8-N-2 and send and = receive on the teletype. >>>=20 >>> The punch seems to work as well. >>>=20 >>> The reader will "chatter" then the reader is put in the stop position and= the tape out sensor is pressed but the sprocket does not advance and the rea= der pins to not move. >>>=20 >>> Questions: >>>=20 >>> 1. Why the reader is not advancing and the pins are not activating? >>> Could this be a read enable contact not being in the active position? >>> 2. What are the outs of the RS-232 DB-25. Other than TX, RX and GND >>> 3. What are the pin outs of the 3 x 5 rectangular connector. I think >>> this is the current loop and other control signals. >>>=20 >>> Does any any of the items below for sale or have a 3D model I can print: >>>=20 >>> 1. Roll Paper spindle (the spindle that the roll paper spins on) >>> 2. Paper Tape Punch Spindle (the spindle that the paper tape spins on) >>> 3. Paper Tape Chad feed tube >>> 4. Paper Tape Chad Box >>>=20 >>> I will be connecting this to either a PiDP-8/I or a PDP-8/E for now and e= ventually a PDP-8/L >>>=20 >>> Thank you, >>>=20 >>> Mike >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 --===============5089721444062974922==-- From ethan.dicks@gmail.com Tue Jun 3 19:15:38 2025 From: Ethan Dicks To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ASR-33 Help and Parts Needed Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2025 15:15:21 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <10ba8170-7495-485b-9333-b1e6689fab42@12bitsbest.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5978940885885919580==" --===============5978940885885919580== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Tue, Jun 3, 2025 at 2:48 PM Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > I'm still looking for the following items for the ASR-33 > > rubber hammer (180502) > paper spindle (181043) > paper tape spindle (183918) > paper tape ends (182935) > chad box (182924 or 182965) Hi, Mike, The best source I am aware of for the rubber hammer (180502) is Dave Tumey's reproductions made in TPU. He made a multi-lifetime order some time back and has been generous in making them available to hobbyists. Write him at and provide a mailing address. In the past he would throw a few in a #10 envelope and send them. There's a print file for the chad bucket at https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3353088/files There's a non-original papertape spool holder at https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4689072 I think at least one of my ASR33s has a cut-off broom handle for a paper spindle. I don't have a source for any of those original parts, and they often break or go missing, so there's demand for modern replacements. Cheers, -ethan --===============5978940885885919580==-- From michael.99.thompson@gmail.com Tue Jun 3 20:13:22 2025 From: Michael Thompson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ASR-33 Help and Parts Needed Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2025 16:12:44 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1DB8FC19-1260-48DF-B1C9-42FE32AB0DFF@artair.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4680554607631477793==" --===============4680554607631477793== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > > Also, don’t try to print without the rubber print hammer, the typeface > metal is softer than the metal of the print hammer, and without the rubber > hammer in place you will quickly flatten out the letters. A small piece of > vinyl tubing can work as a temporary substitute. > > Frank > The people on the Greenkeys forum have remade the TTY hammers. --===============4680554607631477793==-- From bitwiz@12bitsbest.com Tue Jun 3 20:59:01 2025 From: Mike Katz To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ASR-33 Help and Parts Needed Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2025 15:58:53 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1254151844633879165==" --===============1254151844633879165== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thank  you. The hammer is intact and seems to be usable for now. I have joined the greenkeys mailing list and I waiting for my message there to be approved. I have also contected the RTTY king about the parts. On 6/3/2025 3:12 PM, Michael Thompson via cctalk wrote: >> >> Also, don’t try to print without the rubber print hammer, the typeface >> metal is softer than the metal of the print hammer, and without the rubber >> hammer in place you will quickly flatten out the letters. A small piece of >> vinyl tubing can work as a temporary substitute. >> >> Frank >> > The people on the Greenkeys forum > have remade the TTY > hammers. --===============1254151844633879165==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Tue Jun 3 22:12:28 2025 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ASR-33 Help and Parts Needed Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2025 18:12:10 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1DB8FC19-1260-48DF-B1C9-42FE32AB0DFF@artair.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8801299127314890053==" --===============8801299127314890053== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just used a plastic tube cut to fit overtop the hammer, in place of a rubber hammer On Tue, Jun 3, 2025 at 3:38=E2=80=AFPM Frank Smith via cctalk wrote: > Also, don=E2=80=99t try to print without the rubber print hammer, the typef= ace > metal is softer than the metal of the print hammer, and without the rubber > hammer in place you will quickly flatten out the letters. A small piece of > vinyl tubing can work as a temporary substitute. > > Frank > > > On Jun 3, 2025, at 2:03=E2=80=AFPM, Frank Smith via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > =EF=BB=BFYou might want to try asking on the greenkeys mailing list on qt= h.net > that specializes in old teleprinter gear. I know a few years ago someone > there made a mold and reproduced the rubber print hammers for the 33, and > there were also many other collectors and former Teletype service engineers > on the list that would help with troubleshooting and providing pointers to > parts sources. > > > > Good luck, > > Frank > > > >> On Jun 3, 2025, at 1:33=E2=80=AFPM, Mike Katz via cctalk > wrote: > >> > >> =EF=BB=BFThe reader issue is that the reader power pack board is missing. > >> > >> Do any of you have a spare power pack board (183087) . > >> > >> If I can figure out the voltages I may try to reproduce it. > >> > >> I don't know if the reader power pack board for automatic reader > operation (183079) will work or not. > >> > >> I'm still looking for the following items for the ASR-33 > >> > >> rubber hammer (180502) > >> paper spindle (181043) > >> paper tape spindle (183918) > >> paper tape ends (182935) > >> chad box (182924 or 182965) > >> > >> Thank you, > >> > >> Mike > >> > >> > >>>> On 6/2/2025 11:29 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > >>> I was given an ASR-33 complete with stand, read & punch. > >>> > >>> This ASR-33 has been modified for RS-232 though a blue perfboard > mounted in the connection enclosure (under the cover place where the dialer > would be. > >>> > >>> Is has a DB25 ribbon cable coming off of this board. The perfboard > does not have a label on it that I can find. > >>> > >>> The ASR-33 also has a 3 x 5 conductor rectangular connector coming out > of the read of the unit with 6 female contacts installed. > >>> > >>> I was able to connect the ARS-33 to a VT-330+ at 110B 8-N-2 and send > and receive on the teletype. > >>> > >>> The punch seems to work as well. > >>> > >>> The reader will "chatter" then the reader is put in the stop position > and the tape out sensor is pressed but the sprocket does not advance and > the reader pins to not move. > >>> > >>> Questions: > >>> > >>> 1. Why the reader is not advancing and the pins are not activating? > >>> Could this be a read enable contact not being in the active position? > >>> 2. What are the outs of the RS-232 DB-25. Other than TX, RX and GND > >>> 3. What are the pin outs of the 3 x 5 rectangular connector. I think > >>> this is the current loop and other control signals. > >>> > >>> Does any any of the items below for sale or have a 3D model I can > print: > >>> > >>> 1. Roll Paper spindle (the spindle that the roll paper spins on) > >>> 2. Paper Tape Punch Spindle (the spindle that the paper tape spins on) > >>> 3. Paper Tape Chad feed tube > >>> 4. Paper Tape Chad Box > >>> > >>> I will be connecting this to either a PiDP-8/I or a PDP-8/E for now > and eventually a PDP-8/L > >>> > >>> Thank you, > >>> > >>> Mike > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > --===============8801299127314890053==-- From jwsmail@jwsss.com Wed Jun 4 04:44:53 2025 From: jim stephens To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: SCSI <-> Pertec Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2025 23:37:26 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <01e301dbd3d2$ea4eb060$beec1120$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3871086087917661310==" --===============3871086087917661310== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 6/2/25 10:27, Sean Kelly via cctalk wrote: > Hi, > > I am looking for a SCSI to Pertec interface for my Qualstar 3400 drive or t= he Qualstar SCSI PCB for the same. > > Does anyone have anything suitable they would like to sell? > > Thanks > > Sean > This hack project may be useful. https://hackaday.io/project/133859-the-pertec-whisperer-mainframe-tape-drive-= emulator This mainframe group discussion about Qualstar may have other info for=20 you, or if you partake of FB, might ask in this thread. https://www.facebook.com/groups/VintageMainframeEnthusiasts/permalink/9769953= 039767353 The Qualstar poster has probably got a SCSI drive as evidenced by the=20 "Printer" connectors on it. Thanks Jim --===============3871086087917661310==-- From mattislind@gmail.com Wed Jun 4 07:08:29 2025 From: Mattis Lind To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: SCSI <-> Pertec Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2025 09:08:10 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8251685979831463908==" --===============8251685979831463908== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Den ons 4 juni 2025 kl 06:53 skrev jim stephens via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>: > > > On 6/2/25 10:27, Sean Kelly via cctalk wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I am looking for a SCSI to Pertec interface for my Qualstar 3400 drive > or the Qualstar SCSI PCB for the same. > > > > Does anyone have anything suitable they would like to sell? > > > > Thanks > > > > Sean > > > > This hack project may be useful. > > > https://hackaday.io/project/133859-the-pertec-whisperer-mainframe-tape-driv= e-emulator If you don't mind that it isn't SCSI then this project by Chuck Guzis could be interesting as well: https://github.com/Tubatstuff/Pertec-Interface-Tape-Controller > > > This mainframe group discussion about Qualstar may have other info for > you, or if you partake of FB, might ask in this thread. > > > https://www.facebook.com/groups/VintageMainframeEnthusiasts/permalink/97699= 53039767353 > > The Qualstar poster has probably got a SCSI drive as evidenced by the > "Printer" connectors on it. > > Thanks > Jim > > > --===============8251685979831463908==-- From rws@mst269.org Wed Jun 4 10:55:06 2025 From: Richard Schauer To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: What was this AT&T SCSI enclosure for? Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2025 05:54:39 -0500 Message-ID: <37f3d8a6028260182ddb32601f7787fa@mst269.org> In-Reply-To: <42e7ea14b668ba592221d5d1e2cb9f57@mst269.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1190992985448276107==" --===============1190992985448276107== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 2025-06-03 06:04, Richard Schauer via cctalk wrote: > On 2025-06-03 02:07, Andrew B via cctalk wrote: >> Does your drive enclosure have DB-25's on the back, or only on the ISA >> cards with DB-25 to CN-50 cables connecting the enclosure? > DB-25s, I would say; they're not big enough to have 50 pins. I can > check tonight. Verified last night. They are DB-25 female for both disk and tape on the drive enclosure, same as on the computer end. Richard KF9VP --===============1190992985448276107==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Wed Jun 4 12:34:46 2025 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ASR-33 Help and Parts Needed Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2025 08:34:29 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0179306394898127448==" --===============0179306394898127448== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Most hammers are mush and need to be replaced. If you have an original hammer you risk damaging the print cylinder On Wed, Jun 4, 2025 at 7:38=E2=80=AFAM Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > Thank you. > > The hammer is intact and seems to be usable for now. > > I have joined the greenkeys mailing list and I waiting for my message > there to be approved. > > I have also contected the RTTY king about the parts. > > On 6/3/2025 3:12 PM, Michael Thompson via cctalk wrote: > >> > >> Also, don=E2=80=99t try to print without the rubber print hammer, the ty= peface > >> metal is softer than the metal of the print hammer, and without the > rubber > >> hammer in place you will quickly flatten out the letters. A small piece > of > >> vinyl tubing can work as a temporary substitute. > >> > >> Frank > >> > > The people on the Greenkeys forum > > have remade the TTY > > hammers. > > --===============0179306394898127448==-- From jeffrey@vcfed.org Wed Jun 4 13:29:07 2025 From: Jeffrey Brace To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] UPDATE: Swap Meet in Wall, NJ - June 7 Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2025 09:28:43 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5825660831760821063==" --===============5825660831760821063== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Swap Meet Update 6/4/25 Weather The weather on Saturday is being watched closely. A little rain is not concerning, but the thunderstorms are concerning. We will make a final call on Thursday at 10PM about what we will do. We will post updates here: https://vcfed.org/vcf-swap-meet Food Truck The food truck cancelled on us and we can't find a replacement at the last minute. We *may* have some solution to support at least the vendors and volunteers. The general public are on their own. Otherwise we have plenty of vendors signed up with lots of interest. We have been posting daily on Facebook & Instagram to tell everyone about the event. Lots of engagement, interest and excitement. Take care! Jeff Brace VCF/MARCH Fundraising Manager --===============5825660831760821063==-- From ard.p850ug1@gmail.com Wed Jun 4 15:25:51 2025 From: Tony Duell To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ASR-33 Help and Parts Needed Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2025 16:25:30 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2914296165249198443==" --===============2914296165249198443== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Wed, Jun 4, 2025 at 1:43 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > Most hammers are mush and need to be replaced. If you have an original > hammer you risk damaging the print cylinder Some years ago I was given a box of new ASR33 spare parts (A random selection, by no means every part). There were some rubber hammer caps in there. Although they were packed in sealed plastic bags, they have all turned to Evil Goo now, -tony --===============2914296165249198443==-- From elson@pico-systems.com Wed Jun 4 15:36:31 2025 From: Jon Elson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: SCSI <-> Pertec Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2025 10:36:25 -0500 Message-ID: <2931e806-6238-d344-48f4-c0c8c27aaf9f@pico-systems.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8944913985824391524==" --===============8944913985824391524== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 6/3/25 23:37, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: > > > On 6/2/25 10:27, Sean Kelly via cctalk wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I am looking for a SCSI to Pertec interface for my >> Qualstar 3400 drive or the Qualstar SCSI PCB for the same. I took a SCSI-Pertec formatted converter that was part of a Digi-Data streamer drive that was a nightmare.  I attached it to a CDC 92185 Keystone drive, and it worked ONCE, then failed POST the next time I powered it on.  It had a switching supply that ran off the reel motor supply of the original drive.  Possibly you could find the same converter from a Digi-Data streamer. Jon --===============8944913985824391524==-- From wh.sudbrink@verizon.net Wed Jun 4 16:06:43 2025 From: William Sudbrink To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ASR-33 Help and Parts Needed Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2025 12:05:51 -0400 Message-ID: <000401dbd56a$8ba81620$a2f84260$@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1636097483152312404==" --===============1636097483152312404== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tony Duell wrote: > Some years ago I was given a box of new ASR33 spare parts (A random > selection, by no means every part). There were some rubber hammer caps > in there. Although they were packed in sealed plastic bags, they have all > turned to Evil Goo now, Alternatively, I once got a KSR 33. It was guaranteed to be in perfect condi= tion. It certainly looked it. Before powering it up, I even stuck my thumbnail int= o the cap to check if it was ok. It _seemed_ to be. I attached it to a modern com= puter with a current loop/232 converter and sent it some text. The cap immediately exploded into bits. Grains of sand size. I yanked the power cord on the TTY= and avoided any real damage to the type cylinder but I will never trust an old cap again. I use plumbing faucet washers, held in place with shrink tube. Bill S.=20 --=20 This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com --===============1636097483152312404==-- From aperry@snowmoose.com Wed Jun 4 16:08:01 2025 From: Alan Perry To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] ComputerVision input devices Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2025 09:07:42 -0700 Message-ID: <357B522B-8FA4-4363-A36C-51A15C9A65CD@snowmoose.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0140155575224365947==" --===============0140155575224365947== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone here have or know of ComputerVision CADDStation input devices (e.= g., puck, tablet) that ard for sale? I have started restoring the CADDStation= Model 32 that has been sitting in my garage for a while but am missing some = pieces to get the full experience. alan --===============0140155575224365947==-- From bitwiz@12bitsbest.com Wed Jun 4 17:08:50 2025 From: Mike Katz To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ASR-33 Help and Parts Needed Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2025 12:08:42 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3097951850353580656==" --===============3097951850353580656== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tony, Rubber has a tendency to do that. Do you still have the other parts?              Mike On 6/4/2025 10:25 AM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, Jun 4, 2025 at 1:43 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk > wrote: >> Most hammers are mush and need to be replaced. If you have an original >> hammer you risk damaging the print cylinder > > Some years ago I was given a box of new ASR33 spare parts (A random > selection, by no means every part). There were some rubber hammer caps > in there. Although they were packed in sealed plastic bags, they have > all turned to Evil Goo now, > > -tony --===============3097951850353580656==-- From bitwiz@12bitsbest.com Wed Jun 4 17:10:54 2025 From: Mike Katz To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ASR-33 Help and Parts Needed Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2025 12:10:45 -0500 Message-ID: <4bc7c5a6-ac47-470a-bbee-9337bd9405d0@12bitsbest.com> In-Reply-To: <000401dbd56a$8ba81620$a2f84260$@verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2176942182017284185==" --===============2176942182017284185== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=C2=A0 have some rubber gasket material, maybe I could double it up and us=20 that.=C2=A0 Or just glue it to the existing pad (1 thick) The pad seems pretty hard and I've printed a few lines on it and it=20 didn't explode. On 6/4/2025 11:05 AM, William Sudbrink via cctalk wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: >> Some years ago I was given a box of new ASR33 spare parts (A random >> selection, by no means every part). There were some rubber hammer caps >> in there. Although they were packed in sealed plastic bags, they have all >> turned to Evil Goo now, > Alternatively, I once got a KSR 33. It was guaranteed to be in perfect con= dition. > It certainly looked it. Before powering it up, I even stuck my thumbnail i= nto the > cap to check if it was ok. It _seemed_ to be. I attached it to a modern c= omputer > with a current loop/232 converter and sent it some text. The cap immediate= ly > exploded into bits. Grains of sand size. I yanked the power cord on the T= TY and > avoided any real damage to the type cylinder but I will never trust an old = cap > again. I use plumbing faucet washers, held in place with shrink tube. > > Bill S. > > --===============2176942182017284185==-- From ard.p850ug1@gmail.com Wed Jun 4 17:32:22 2025 From: Tony Duell To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ASR-33 Help and Parts Needed Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2025 18:31:50 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2988580435380109843==" --===============2988580435380109843== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Wed, Jun 4, 2025 at 6:19 PM Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > > Tony, > > Rubber has a tendency to do that. I repair Philips tape recorders.... Enough said. (For those who've not experienced it, Philips drive belts of the 1970s decay into a horrble sticky mess that gets everywhere. It's difficult to clean up (you have to take just about everything apart), if it gets on your clothes you have a lot of washing to do) > > Do you still have the other parts? Yes. And a couple of complere Model 33 ASRs to use them on. -tony --===============2988580435380109843==-- From m.zahorik@sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 4 17:46:35 2025 From: mike To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ASR-33 Help and Parts Needed Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2025 12:46:22 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0149655100511439372==" --===============0149655100511439372== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mike, Wayne over on Green Keys used to have some rubber buttons that fit on t= he hammer. When I did my TeleType I got a couple from him. maybe he still has= some? Mike Zahorik (414) 254-6768 -----Original Message----- From: Mike Katz via cctalk [mailto:cctalk(a)classiccmp.org]=20 Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2025 12:09 PM To: Tony Duell via cctalk Cc: Mike Katz Subject: [cctalk] Re: ASR-33 Help and Parts Needed Tony, Rubber has a tendency to do that. Do you still have the other parts? Mike On 6/4/2025 10:25 AM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, Jun 4, 2025 at 1:43=E2=80=AFPM Bill Degnan via cctalk > wrote: >> Most hammers are mush and need to be replaced. If you have an original >> hammer you risk damaging the print cylinder > > Some years ago I was given a box of new ASR33 spare parts (A random > selection, by no means every part). There were some rubber hammer caps > in there. Although they were packed in sealed plastic bags, they have > all turned to Evil Goo now, > > -tony --===============0149655100511439372==-- From legalize@xmission.com Wed Jun 4 21:02:44 2025 From: Richard To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ComputerVision input devices Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2025 14:39:57 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <357B522B-8FA4-4363-A36C-51A15C9A65CD@snowmoose.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8307672606042683512==" --===============8307672606042683512== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In article <357B522B-8FA4-4363-A36C-51A15C9A65CD(a)snowmoose.com> you write: >Does anyone here have or know of ComputerVision CADDStation input devices >(e.g., puck, tablet) that ard for sale? I have started restoring the >CADDStation Model 32 that has been sitting in my garage for a while but am >missing some pieces to get the full experience. They are likely just rebranded devices from an existing tablet manufacturer, e.g. Summagraphics. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book The Terminals Wiki The Computer Graphics Museum Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) --===============8307672606042683512==-- From bear@typewritten.org Wed Jun 4 22:08:14 2025 From: "r.stricklin" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] CTOS Ethernet EDL software Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2025 14:58:23 -0700 Message-ID: <386DAC30-2A74-4470-919C-720CD85CD50E@typewritten.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2738960664279031385==" --===============2738960664279031385== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There is a copy of the Convergent CTOS EDL (ethernet data link / packet drive= r) for the ETH150 (SMC 8416T ISA ethernet) board on Bitsavers. I am wanting to make use of an SG410P (CTOS EISA Ethernet IOP) but as far as = I can tell the EDL archived on Bitsavers is missing the piece(s) necessary fo= r use with an IOP or other supported non-ISA ethernet board. Has another copy of the EDL survived? Can it be made available? It might be t= he case that it was included as a separate disk in another CTOS networking so= ftware package (e.g. TCP/IP, OSI Transport, or LANce). Secondarily, CTOS FTP has ISAM II as a pre-req; Bitsavers has (what appears t= o be) an update-only disk archived, but no =E2=80=9Cbase=E2=80=9D install. I= =E2=80=99d be quite interested in finding out if that has survived and could = be made available as well. If there=E2=80=99s a more likely mailing list or forum I might also direct my= enquiries, I=E2=80=99ll be glad to engage there. Thanks! ok bear. --===============2738960664279031385==-- From hupfadekroua@gmail.com Thu Jun 5 08:16:44 2025 From: Andreas Holz To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Tadpole Sparcbook 2 Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2025 10:16:34 +0200 Message-ID: <16a9faf3-8abc-4147-bed1-e3d4895f5b5a@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1808441146805516157==" --===============1808441146805516157== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, by surprise I got a Tadpole Sparcbook 2 some time ago. Sadly there seems to be almost no documentation available in the net for a Sparcbook 2, neither a technical/service nor a user manual, only for Sparcbook 1 and later models. I do have the following issues: - the battery pack is missing.   I found two ressources, e.g. the CHM - but none does have any infos about the battery pack - The external power connector requieres 18V - no problem - After connecting the fitting power the Sparcbook does power up, the display is lit and the unit is trying to boot from the internat SCSI disc. Nevertheless the boot process is failing this is a good sign. - after trying to reboot the unit will be almost dead. While pressing the power on button the LEDs on the left upper side of the display will be lit shortly, but nothing else will happen. - trying to reboot an power on the same as above will happen If I'll keep the unit several weeks/months unpowered the unit will power up again - but of course will be stuck again while trying to boot from disk and the same semidead issues as noted above. I'm suspecting the TOD chip/battery is deads or are there any other sugegstions? Up to today I didn't have a look inside of the unit ... Does any have the manuals hidden in theirs shelves? Best Andreas --===============1808441146805516157==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Thu Jun 5 13:30:25 2025 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Tadpole Sparcbook 2 Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2025 09:30:05 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <16a9faf3-8abc-4147-bed1-e3d4895f5b5a@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2176985080309143339==" --===============2176985080309143339== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have three Sun OS laptops waiting to be analyzed in a single Tadpole box so I assume they’re some form of Tadpole..I will check to see what model(s). My brief testing of the units revealed similar symptoms to yours. I forget the model(s). Bill On Thu, Jun 5, 2025 at 4:23 AM Andreas Holz via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Hi all, > > by surprise I got a Tadpole Sparcbook 2 some time ago. > > Sadly there seems to be almost no documentation available in the net for > a Sparcbook 2, neither a technical/service nor a user manual, only for > Sparcbook 1 and later models. > > I do have the following issues: > > - the battery pack is missing. > I found two ressources, e.g. the CHM - but none does have any infos > about the battery pack > > - The external power connector requieres 18V - no problem > > - After connecting the fitting power the Sparcbook does power up, the > display is lit and the unit is trying to boot from the internat SCSI > disc. Nevertheless the boot process is failing this is a good sign. > > - after trying to reboot the unit will be almost dead. While pressing > the power on button the LEDs on the left upper side of the display will > be lit shortly, but nothing else will happen. > > - trying to reboot an power on the same as above will happen > > If I'll keep the unit several weeks/months unpowered the unit will power > up again - but of course will be stuck again while trying to boot from > disk and the same semidead issues as noted above. > > I'm suspecting the TOD chip/battery is deads or are there any other > sugegstions? > > Up to today I didn't have a look inside of the unit ... > > Does any have the manuals hidden in theirs shelves? > > Best > > Andreas > > --===============2176985080309143339==-- From billdegnan@gmail.com Thu Jun 5 16:58:51 2025 From: Bill Degnan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Tadpole Sparcbook 2 Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2025 12:58:35 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7050677034292746031==" --===============7050677034292746031== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit They name of the laptop model is "PowerLite 85" I have the manuals for this model. On Thu, Jun 5, 2025 at 9:30 AM Bill Degnan wrote: > I have three Sun OS laptops waiting to be analyzed in a single Tadpole box > so I assume they’re some form of Tadpole..I will check to see what > model(s). My brief testing of the units revealed similar symptoms to > yours. I forget the model(s). > Bill > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2025 at 4:23 AM Andreas Holz via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> by surprise I got a Tadpole Sparcbook 2 some time ago. >> >> Sadly there seems to be almost no documentation available in the net for >> a Sparcbook 2, neither a technical/service nor a user manual, only for >> Sparcbook 1 and later models. >> >> I do have the following issues: >> >> - the battery pack is missing. >> I found two ressources, e.g. the CHM - but none does have any infos >> about the battery pack >> >> - The external power connector requieres 18V - no problem >> >> - After connecting the fitting power the Sparcbook does power up, the >> display is lit and the unit is trying to boot from the internat SCSI >> disc. Nevertheless the boot process is failing this is a good sign. >> >> - after trying to reboot the unit will be almost dead. While pressing >> the power on button the LEDs on the left upper side of the display will >> be lit shortly, but nothing else will happen. >> >> - trying to reboot an power on the same as above will happen >> >> If I'll keep the unit several weeks/months unpowered the unit will power >> up again - but of course will be stuck again while trying to boot from >> disk and the same semidead issues as noted above. >> >> I'm suspecting the TOD chip/battery is deads or are there any other >> sugegstions? >> >> Up to today I didn't have a look inside of the unit ... >> >> Does any have the manuals hidden in theirs shelves? >> >> Best >> >> Andreas >> >> --===============7050677034292746031==-- From jeffrey@vcfed.org Fri Jun 6 03:52:27 2025 From: Jeffrey Brace To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] SWAP MEET IS ON! - UPDATE 6/5/25 - Wall, NJ Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2025 23:52:04 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5822221626523654640==" --===============5822221626523654640== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Swap Meet Update 6/5/25 So the negotiations with the weather gods have been successful! The latest weather forecast shows a 57% chance of rain around 8AM and thunderstorms 5PM or later. So with this, I'm going ahead with the swap meet as planned. Everyone is encouraged to use their best judgment as to their safety in coming to the event. My highest recommendation is to bring a tent that can be anchored with sandbags. Generally a good idea regardless of rain. Also bring waterproof clothing (i.e. raincoats, etc.) If any vendor should feel uncomfortable and needs to cancel, we will refund you, but once you show up, there is no refund. Vendor setup is 7AM General Admission is 8AM More info here: https://vcfed.org/vcf-swap-meet/ --===============5822221626523654640==-- From erik@baigar.de Fri Jun 6 07:03:56 2025 From: erik@baigar.de To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Tadpole Sparcbook 2 Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2025 08:53:57 +0200 Message-ID: <1749192837470.null> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1826462810778330807==" --===============1826462810778330807== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Andreas, great that there are still some people looking into the old SPARCbooks from Tadpole. I have got a 3GX up and running. > Sadly there seems to be almost no documentation available > in the net for a Sparcbook 2 Yeah, that is really sad. Also do not have got any information! Just to report from my work on the 3 series ones (which are probably not to different from the earlier ones): Mine works without battery pack, so there is some intelligence in the battery pack (for power management), but using a power supply it is working even without that pack! > - after trying to reboot the unit will be almost dead. > While pressing the power on button the LEDs on the left > upper side of the display will > be lit shortly, but nothing else will happen. Hmm, that sounds strange and I never observed this due to lost NVram values. But what I observed is the yellow/orange Tantalum caps going bad in the small power supply piggy back PCB inside the unit. A short prevents the notebook from working (and sometimes even some inductors release smoke and completely destroyong the PCB depending on which cap went short). After a longer time powered off, the faulty cap can recover explaining your observation. Fortunately I had some spare PCBs and replaced all caps in my live one which works nicely now... Good luck, Erik. --===============1826462810778330807==-- From mhs.stein@gmail.com Fri Jun 6 12:58:23 2025 From: Mike Stein To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ASR-33 Help and Parts Needed Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2025 08:58:00 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7851521112663668179==" --===============7851521112663668179== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Any tips on cleaning it up? On Wed, Jun 4, 2025 at 1:38=E2=80=AFPM Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, Jun 4, 2025 at 6:19=E2=80=AFPM Mike Katz via cctalk > wrote: > > > > Tony, > > > > Rubber has a tendency to do that. > > I repair Philips tape recorders.... Enough said. > > (For those who've not experienced it, Philips drive belts of the 1970s > decay into a horrble sticky mess that gets everywhere. It's difficult > to clean up (you have to take just about everything apart), if it gets > on your clothes you have a lot of washing to do) > > > > > Do you still have the other parts? > > Yes. And a couple of complere Model 33 ASRs to use them on. > > -tony > --===============7851521112663668179==-- From ard.p850ug1@gmail.com Fri Jun 6 13:07:22 2025 From: Tony Duell To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ASR-33 Help and Parts Needed Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2025 14:07:05 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4246027242765208150==" --===============4246027242765208150== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Fri, Jun 6, 2025 at 1:58 PM Mike Stein wrote: > > Any tips on cleaning it up? Wear old clothes :-) Take everything apart that will sensibly come apart. Including anything located below the old rubber parts, the goo will drip. For example if the printer roller in an HP9810 or HP9820 turns to goo then it will have dripped onto the main backplane and maybe got into the edge connector for the keyboard cable. I find an initial cleaning with WD40 Contact Cleaner (this is not the anti-rust stuff, it's a totally different product from the same company) and then cleaning with propan-2-ol (isopropyl alcohol) gets most of it off.If the goo gets on your hands, stop and wash them thoroughly. This is not because the goo is particularly harmful, but rather because if it's on your hands you'll transfer it to anything you touch -tony --===============4246027242765208150==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Fri Jun 6 14:01:24 2025 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ASR-33 Help and Parts Needed Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2025 10:01:06 -0400 Message-ID: <8A4BBAFF-4577-4D9C-BC1F-7BA4E5B057C3@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3422617305061380703==" --===============3422617305061380703== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Jun 6, 2025, at 9:07=E2=80=AFAM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: >=20 > On Fri, Jun 6, 2025 at 1:58=E2=80=AFPM Mike Stein w= rote: >>=20 >> Any tips on cleaning it up? >=20 > Wear old clothes :-) >=20 > Take everything apart that will sensibly come apart. Including > anything located below the old rubber parts, the goo will drip. For > example if the printer roller in an HP9810 or HP9820 turns to goo then > it will have dripped onto the main backplane and maybe got into the > edge connector for the keyboard cable. >=20 > I find an initial cleaning with WD40 Contact Cleaner (this is not the > anti-rust stuff, it's a totally different product from the same > company) and then cleaning with propan-2-ol (isopropyl alcohol) gets > most of it off. If the goo is anything like contact cement, lacquer thinner is likely to work= well. That stuff will dissolve many plastics so be careful, but it does a n= ice job with problems like this. The main ingredient is toluene, I think, bu= t it's a blend of solvents and my primary answer whenever I need to clean up = something like glass or metal that won't be hurt by it. paul --===============3422617305061380703==-- From donald@donaldwhittemore.com Fri Jun 6 16:19:07 2025 From: "donald donaldwhittemore.com" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ASR-33 Help and Parts Needed Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2025 13:14:13 +0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1155427641560192423==" --===============1155427641560192423== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Any fluid you need is probably banned by local, state or federal government. = :) --===============1155427641560192423==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Fri Jun 6 18:24:36 2025 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ASR-33 Help and Parts Needed Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2025 14:24:17 -0400 Message-ID: <5F8A1804-3DC0-4532-98DC-71FC80052795@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2890010297195541046==" --===============2890010297195541046== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Jun 6, 2025, at 9:14=E2=80=AFAM, donald donaldwhittemore.com via cctalk = wrote: >=20 > Any fluid you need is probably banned by local, state or federal government= . :) Yes, I remember when we had a bottle of benzene sitting around when I was a k= id -- it did a great job removing sticky residue from band-aids. But lacquer= thinner is still available and seems to be still the real thing. Unlike pai= nt remover, which has been emasculated. :-( And I think I saw xylene in a p= aint store recently too, that also works but is less volatile so the smell li= ngers a lot longer. paul --===============2890010297195541046==-- From bitwiz@12bitsbest.com Fri Jun 6 19:08:31 2025 From: Mike Katz To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ASR-33 Help and Parts Needed Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2025 14:08:20 -0500 Message-ID: <2bb00fa3-ef75-4536-ac0f-4b88f2e228df@12bitsbest.com> In-Reply-To: <5F8A1804-3DC0-4532-98DC-71FC80052795@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1182748448374154112==" --===============1182748448374154112== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What can be used to clean the slightly porous ASR-33 key tops?=C2=A0 Or do I = have to live with the stains? On 6/6/2025 1:24 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > >> On Jun 6, 2025, at 9:14=E2=80=AFAM, donald donaldwhittemore.com via cctalk= wrote: >> >> Any fluid you need is probably banned by local, state or federal governmen= t. :) > Yes, I remember when we had a bottle of benzene sitting around when I was a= kid -- it did a great job removing sticky residue from band-aids. But lacqu= er thinner is still available and seems to be still the real thing. Unlike p= aint remover, which has been emasculated. :-( And I think I saw xylene in a= paint store recently too, that also works but is less volatile so the smell = lingers a lot longer. > > paul --===============1182748448374154112==-- From lyndon@orthanc.ca Fri Jun 6 19:49:57 2025 From: "Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Tadpole Sparcbook 2 Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2025 12:43:10 -0700 Message-ID: <6769d4643040cde2@orthanc.ca> In-Reply-To: <16a9faf3-8abc-4147-bed1-e3d4895f5b5a@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0246264465854817298==" --===============0246264465854817298== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andreas Holz via cctalk writes: > - after trying to reboot the unit will be almost dead. While pressing=20 > the power on button the LEDs on the left upper side of the display will=20 > be lit shortly, but nothing else will happen. If this is happening with external 18 VDC applied, suspect any/all of the electrolytic capacitors in the internal power converter. I've never seen one of these inside, but given its age, those caps stand a good chance of being replaceable without requiring a microscope. --lyndon --===============0246264465854817298==-- From artgodwin@gmail.com Sat Jun 7 19:35:42 2025 From: Adrian Godwin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Tadpole Sparcbook 2 Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2025 20:35:24 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <684298b5.050a0220.2dde72.72caSMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2125345676402171140==" --===============2125345676402171140== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tadpole were in Cambridge, weren't they ? https://www.computinghistory.org.uk/ have collected a fair bit of Cambridge history. I haven't found them very willing to search their archives but there may be individuals who have more time available, or they may have a resource problem in putting information online. On Fri, Jun 6, 2025 at 8:28=E2=80=AFAM erik--- via cctalk wrote: > > > > Hi Andreas, > > great that there are still some people looking into the > old SPARCbooks from Tadpole. I have got a 3GX up and running. > > > Sadly there seems to be almost no documentation available > > in the net for a Sparcbook 2 > > Yeah, that is really sad. Also do not have got any information! > Just to report from my work on the 3 series ones (which are > probably not to different from the earlier ones): > > Mine works without battery pack, so there is some intelligence > in the battery pack (for power management), but using a power > supply it is working even without that pack! > > > - after trying to reboot the unit will be almost dead. > > While pressing the power on button the LEDs on the left > > upper side of the display will > > be lit shortly, but nothing else will happen. > > Hmm, that sounds strange and I never observed this due to > lost NVram values. But what I observed is the yellow/orange > Tantalum caps going bad in the small power supply piggy back > PCB inside the unit. A short prevents the notebook from > working (and sometimes even some inductors release smoke and > completely destroyong the PCB depending on which cap went > short). > After a longer time powered off, the faulty cap can recover > explaining your observation. Fortunately I had some spare > PCBs and replaced all caps in my live one which works nicely > now... > > Good luck, > > Erik. > --===============2125345676402171140==-- From w9gb@icloud.com Sat Jun 7 21:04:04 2025 From: Gregory Beat To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ASR-33 Help and Parts Needed Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2025 15:48:07 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4682062760269771544==" --===============4682062760269771544== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit START with SIMPLE GREEN. For Old Plastics and Bakelite, I keep Mineral Oil available. Refurbishing the Teletype model 15 https://www.aetherltd.com/refurbishing15.html Teletype model 33 Wiki https://wiki.theretrowagon.com/wiki/Teletype_Model_33 Wayne Durkee, WB1FDW in Vermont is good Teletype 32/33 Resource He still repairs them ! https://www.qrz.com/db/KB1FDW greg, w9gb --===============4682062760269771544==-- From bitwiz@12bitsbest.com Sun Jun 8 02:15:56 2025 From: Mike Katz To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: ASR-33 Help and Parts Needed Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2025 21:15:49 -0500 Message-ID: <98c45d19-afb8-418c-85c7-648745c53151@12bitsbest.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2002518335546784758==" --===============2002518335546784758== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thank you On 6/7/2025 3:48 PM, Gregory Beat via cctalk wrote: > START with SIMPLE GREEN. > For Old Plastics and Bakelite, I keep Mineral Oil available. > > Refurbishing the Teletype model 15 > https://www.aetherltd.com/refurbishing15.html > > Teletype model 33 Wiki > https://wiki.theretrowagon.com/wiki/Teletype_Model_33 > > Wayne Durkee, WB1FDW in Vermont is good Teletype 32/33 Resource > He still repairs them ! > https://www.qrz.com/db/KB1FDW > > greg, w9gb --===============2002518335546784758==-- From hupfadekroua@gmail.com Sun Jun 8 19:27:08 2025 From: hupfadekroua To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Tadpole Sparcbook 2 Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2025 21:26:49 +0200 Message-ID: <506D93E2-063B-46D4-9603-4BA7D7A48F00@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3763152210468094252==" --===============3763152210468094252== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I already got in contact to computinghistory as well as CHM. The don=E2=80=98t have anything beside the Sparcbook 2 artifacts they a publi= shing on their websites Andreas > Am 08.06.2025 um 19:03 schrieb Adrian Godwin via cctalk : >=20 > =EF=BB=BFTadpole were in Cambridge, weren't they ? > https://www.computinghistory.org.uk/ have collected a fair bit of > Cambridge history. I haven't found them very willing to search their > archives but there may be individuals who have more time available, or > they may have a resource problem in putting information online. >=20 >> On Fri, Jun 6, 2025 at 8:28=E2=80=AFAM erik--- via cctalk wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Hi Andreas, >>=20 >> great that there are still some people looking into the >> old SPARCbooks from Tadpole. I have got a 3GX up and running. >>=20 >>> Sadly there seems to be almost no documentation available >>> in the net for a Sparcbook 2 >>=20 >> Yeah, that is really sad. Also do not have got any information! >> Just to report from my work on the 3 series ones (which are >> probably not to different from the earlier ones): >>=20 >> Mine works without battery pack, so there is some intelligence >> in the battery pack (for power management), but using a power >> supply it is working even without that pack! >>=20 >>> - after trying to reboot the unit will be almost dead. >>> While pressing the power on button the LEDs on the left >>> upper side of the display will >>> be lit shortly, but nothing else will happen. >>=20 >> Hmm, that sounds strange and I never observed this due to >> lost NVram values. But what I observed is the yellow/orange >> Tantalum caps going bad in the small power supply piggy back >> PCB inside the unit. A short prevents the notebook from >> working (and sometimes even some inductors release smoke and >> completely destroyong the PCB depending on which cap went >> short). >> After a longer time powered off, the faulty cap can recover >> explaining your observation. Fortunately I had some spare >> PCBs and replaced all caps in my live one which works nicely >> now... >>=20 >> Good luck, >>=20 >> Erik. >>=20 --===============3763152210468094252==-- From henry.r.bent@gmail.com Sun Jun 8 20:35:19 2025 From: Henry Bent To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Tadpole Sparcbook 2 Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2025 16:35:01 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2017480069439456418==" --===============2017480069439456418== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 8 Jun 2025 at 13:03, Adrian Godwin via cctalk wrote: > Tadpole were in Cambridge, weren't they ? > https://www.computinghistory.org.uk/ have collected a fair bit of > Cambridge history. I haven't found them very willing to search their > archives but there may be individuals who have more time available, or > they may have a resource problem in putting information online Hopefully there is some physical documentation somewhere still, because I did quite a bit of searching through archive.org captures and FTP archives and there's just nothing out there on the SPARCbook 2. I'm not sure if Tadpole ever put any digital resources for it online anywhere; it was early enough that the answer could well be no. -Henry --===============2017480069439456418==-- From miod@online.fr Mon Jun 9 17:59:33 2025 From: Miod Vallat To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Tadpole Sparcbook 2 Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2025 17:59:28 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <16a9faf3-8abc-4147-bed1-e3d4895f5b5a@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3175636204070122954==" --===============3175636204070122954== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Sadly there seems to be almost no documentation available in the net for a > Sparcbook 2, neither a technical/service nor a user manual, only for > Sparcbook 1 and later models. I do have a SPARCbook 2 and its printed documentation; however the ``Technical Reference Manual'' was not bundled with the machine and had to be ordered separately from Tadpole, and I don't have a copy of it. > - the battery pack is missing. >   I found two ressources, e.g. the CHM - but none does have any infos about > the battery pack There are no details about the battery in the manual, except that they are made of ``the latest generation of Nickel Cadmium batteries'', where latest means 1992. > - After connecting the fitting power the Sparcbook does power up, the > display is lit and the unit is trying to boot from the internat SCSI disc. > Nevertheless the boot process is failing this is a good sign. > > - after trying to reboot the unit will be almost dead. While pressing the > power on button the LEDs on the left upper side of the display will be lit > shortly, but nothing else will happen. Upon initial power up, can you interrupt the boot process by pressing a key, and asking for diagnostics? (option 4 in the menu) You might also want to connect a serial terminal (9600 8N1), there should be diagnostics messages on it if the display does not initialize. HTH, Miod --===============3175636204070122954==-- From c.murray.mccullough@gmail.com Mon Jun 9 23:35:32 2025 From: Murray McCullough To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Bill Atkinson Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2025 19:35:15 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5002291043980259669==" --===============5002291043980259669== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill Atkinson, a true early microcomputer pioneer, ca. 1984+, brought drawing on a computer screen and linking to external files a reality. He will be missed. Murray-- --===============5002291043980259669==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Tue Jun 10 00:04:01 2025 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Bill Atkinson Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2025 19:48:37 -0400 Message-ID: <63C88FE1-D668-4276-AF2B-251D8B985ACE@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0850032967059110568==" --===============0850032967059110568== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Drawing on a computer screen goes back at least a decade from that (PLATO had= it back then) if not more. paul > On Jun 9, 2025, at 7:35=E2=80=AFPM, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: >=20 > Bill Atkinson, a true early microcomputer pioneer, ca. 1984+, brought > drawing on a computer screen and linking to external files a reality. He > will be missed. >=20 > Murray-- --===============0850032967059110568==-- From cisin@xenosoft.com Tue Jun 10 00:47:09 2025 From: Fred Cisin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Bill Atkinson Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2025 17:47:01 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <63C88FE1-D668-4276-AF2B-251D8B985ACE@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4880193397047683685==" --===============4880193397047683685== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> On Jun 9, 2025, at 7:35=E2=80=AFPM, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: >> Bill Atkinson, a true early microcomputer pioneer, ca. 1984+, brought >> drawing on a computer screen and linking to external files a reality. He On Mon, 9 Jun 2025, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > Drawing on a computer screen goes back at least a decade from that (PLATO h= ad it back then) if not more. Wasn't responsible for MacPaint? That was not "first", or even early, but it was significant. . . .and wasn't he heavily involved in creating HyperCard, and the Mac=20 pull-down menus? I think that he was the one who said, "The Mac was supposed to have four=20 major software packages; but by the time that it was released, those had=20 become MacWrite, MacPaint, MacWrite, and MacPaint" -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com --===============4880193397047683685==-- From cmhanson@eschatologist.net Tue Jun 10 03:26:01 2025 From: Chris Hanson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Bill Atkinson Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2025 20:19:34 -0700 Message-ID: <7A8878FA-D620-4D91-875B-6870E703F8CC@eschatologist.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7830157897644837675==" --===============7830157897644837675== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Jun 9, 2025, at 5:47=E2=80=AFPM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: >=20 > Wasn't responsible for MacPaint? > That was not "first", or even early, but it was significant. > . . .and wasn't he heavily involved in creating HyperCard, and the Mac pull= -down menus? >=20 > I think that he was the one who said, "The Mac was supposed to have four ma= jor software packages; but by the time that it was released, those had become= MacWrite, MacPaint, MacWrite, and MacPaint=E2=80=9D Yes, he was responsible for MacPaint, and HyperCard, and the creation of pull= -down menus, and QuickDraw, and the window manager, and... He wasn=E2=80=99t the one to make =E2=80=9Cdrawing on a computer screen [...]= [a] reality=E2=80=9D but he was responsible for quite a bit of what people r= ecognize as a modern computer interface, including a mechanisms for allowing = a window to continue to update when partially obscured by another window, a m= enu, etc. That=E2=80=99s what his =E2=80=9Cregion=E2=80=9D data structure was= for, which is an extremely clever way to compactly encode a non-rectangular = area of pixels that also supports very fast membership tests. -- Chris --===============7830157897644837675==-- From cramcram@gmail.com Tue Jun 10 13:03:52 2025 From: Marc Howard To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Bill Atkinson Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2025 09:03:34 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <63C88FE1-D668-4276-AF2B-251D8B985ACE@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2168198354731421175==" --===============2168198354731421175== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yup, way back: https://www.twz.com/26959/the-futuristic-cold-war-era-sage-air-defense-bunker= s-looked-right-out-of-a-kubrick-film Early 1960=E2=80=99s. Marc On Mon, Jun 9, 2025 at 8:14=E2=80=AFPM Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > Drawing on a computer screen goes back at least a decade from that (PLATO > had it back then) if not more. > > paul > > > On Jun 9, 2025, at 7:35=E2=80=AFPM, Murray McCullough via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > Bill Atkinson, a true early microcomputer pioneer, ca. 1984+, brought > > drawing on a computer screen and linking to external files a reality. He > > will be missed. > > > > Murray-- > > --===============2168198354731421175==-- From elson@pico-systems.com Tue Jun 10 14:55:03 2025 From: Jon Elson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Tadpole Sparcbook 2 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2025 09:54:55 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4700526246032620170==" --===============4700526246032620170== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 6/9/25 12:59, Miod Vallat via cctalk wrote: > > There are no details about the battery in the manual, except that they > are made of ``the latest generation of Nickel Cadmium batteries'', where > latest means 1992. Ah HAH!  That confirms my suspicions from the original message, that the machine would partially boot once, then never again until left unpowered for a few weeks.  I guessed that there was a CMOS battery that was rechargeable, and the several weeks wait allowed that battery to fully discharge.  The issue is the partial boot leaves some corrupted data in the battery-backed RAM. Jon --===============4700526246032620170==-- From imp@bsdimp.com Tue Jun 10 15:30:04 2025 From: Warner Losh To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Tadpole Sparcbook 2 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2025 09:29:46 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1957124220745140133==" --===============1957124220745140133== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Tue, Jun 10, 2025, 9:04 AM Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > On 6/9/25 12:59, Miod Vallat via cctalk wrote: > > > > There are no details about the battery in the manual, except that they > > are made of ``the latest generation of Nickel Cadmium batteries'', where > > latest means 1992. > > Ah HAH! That confirms my suspicions from the original > message, that the machine would partially boot once, then > never again until left unpowered for a few weeks. I guessed > that there was a CMOS battery that was rechargeable, and the > several weeks wait allowed that battery to fully discharge. > The issue is the partial boot leaves some corrupted data in > the battery-backed RAM. > Isn't there a command in OpenFirmware to reset that? Or to set things like MAC address that might 'fix' this before the kernel gets a chance to freak out... Warner > --===============1957124220745140133==-- From wrcooke@wrcooke.net Tue Jun 10 15:32:19 2025 From: wrcooke@wrcooke.net To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Bill Atkinson Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2025 11:32:13 -0400 Message-ID: <605584807.223628.1749569533660@email.ionos.com> In-Reply-To: <63C88FE1-D668-4276-AF2B-251D8B985ACE@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4779302736486667230==" --===============4779302736486667230== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There was Ivan Sutherland's Sketchpad in 1963(?) https://www.invent.org/inductees/ivan-e-sutherland Will > On 06/09/2025 7:48 PM EDT Paul Koning via cctalk = wrote: >=20 > =20 > Drawing on a computer screen goes back at least a decade from that (PLATO h= ad it back then) if not more. >=20 > paul >=20 > > On Jun 9, 2025, at 7:35=E2=80=AFPM, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: > >=20 > > Bill Atkinson, a true early microcomputer pioneer, ca. 1984+, brought > > drawing on a computer screen and linking to external files a reality. He > > will be missed. > >=20 > > Murray-- You just can't beat the person who never gives up. Babe Ruth --===============4779302736486667230==-- From miod@online.fr Tue Jun 10 16:12:55 2025 From: Miod Vallat To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Tadpole Sparcbook 2 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2025 16:12:48 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6306763203699161384==" --===============6306763203699161384== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Isn't there a command in OpenFirmware to reset that? Or to set things like > MAC address that might 'fix' this before the kernel gets a chance to freak > out... Tadpole SPARCBook prior to generation 3 do not use OpenFirmware and hardly store anything in battery-backed memory. --===============6306763203699161384==-- From commodorejohn@gmail.com Tue Jun 10 18:25:07 2025 From: John To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Bill Atkinson Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2025 11:24:55 -0700 Message-ID: <20250610112455.00005b00@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <174957480873.1244.16516463823040997126@classiccmp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2726418939770995406==" --===============2726418939770995406== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In addition to everything already cited, he developed what is still my favorite dithering algorithm. Atkinson dither was probably optimized more for speed than anything, but I've always loved the look of it, and have even implemented it myself for that reason. R.I.P., sir. --===============2726418939770995406==-- From hupfadekroua@gmail.com Tue Jun 10 20:16:00 2025 From: hupfadekroua To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Tadpole Sparcbook 2 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2025 22:15:45 +0200 Message-ID: <2E0FFEE7-7D37-4B6B-BAEE-C2F144D21EAC@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0690533584939207119==" --===============0690533584939207119== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Meanwhile I got a Sparcbook 1 technical reference manual. Even the 1 version does have a battery backed sram e.g. responsible for the R= TC using a MK48T02. Maybe the same or similar within the SB 2. Suspect is a dead battery and corrupt sram. Best Andreas > Am 10.06.2025 um 18:28 schrieb Miod Vallat via cctalk : >=20 > =EF=BB=BF >>=20 >> Isn't there a command in OpenFirmware to reset that? Or to set things like >> MAC address that might 'fix' this before the kernel gets a chance to freak >> out... >=20 > Tadpole SPARCBook prior to generation 3 do not use OpenFirmware and > hardly store anything in battery-backed memory. --===============0690533584939207119==-- From michael.99.thompson@gmail.com Tue Jun 10 22:06:29 2025 From: Michael Thompson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Tadpole Sparcbook 2 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2025 18:06:11 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2E0FFEE7-7D37-4B6B-BAEE-C2F144D21EAC@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5022489258923084444==" --===============5022489258923084444== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can you get the manual scanned and put on Bitsavers? > On Jun 10, 2025, at 4:24=E2=80=AFPM, hupfadekroua via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFMeanwhile I got a Sparcbook 1 technical reference manual. >=20 > Even the 1 version does have a battery backed sram e.g. responsible for the= RTC using a MK48T02. >=20 > Maybe the same or similar within the SB 2. >=20 > Suspect is a dead battery and corrupt sram. >=20 > Best >=20 > Andreas >=20 >> Am 10.06.2025 um 18:28 schrieb Miod Vallat via cctalk : >>=20 >> =EF=BB=BF >>>=20 >>> Isn't there a command in OpenFirmware to reset that? Or to set things like >>> MAC address that might 'fix' this before the kernel gets a chance to freak >>> out... >>=20 >> Tadpole SPARCBook prior to generation 3 do not use OpenFirmware and >> hardly store anything in battery-backed memory. --===============5022489258923084444==-- From lproven@gmail.com Fri Jun 13 16:28:49 2025 From: Liam Proven To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Bill Atkinson Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2025 17:29:45 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1027647248605783971==" --===============1027647248605783971== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, 10 Jun 2025 at 00:44, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: > > drawing on a computer screen That is such a vague way of putting it that I'm not surprised people objected! He wrote MacPaint, which contained essentially the first modern toolbars in a GUI app and after which almost all other pixel-editors and many vector and other graphics editors are modelled. > linking to external files No... He wrote Hypercard, which was the first mass-market application to use _hyperlinks_ -- previously an obscure curiosity from Ted Nelson's Xanadu, which should have gone mainstream but didn't. Nothing to do with files. He also wrote LisaGraf which became Quickdraw. He designed and implemented regions, making it possible to efficiently draw into and update windows that were obscured by other windows. Smalltalk couldn't do that. He didn't believe it couldn't do, not knowing they'd skipped a very hard but very useful function, he worked out a way to efficiently implement it. He designed a dither algorithm that was as fast or faster than the dominant Floyd-Steinberg dither but could do areas of true black or white without a stipple. He designed much of the modern GUI, adding substantial functionality to Xerox PARC's Smalltalk, Alto and Star workstations' primitive GUIs. I wrote an obituary: https://www.theregister.com/2025/06/11/bill_atkinson_obituary/ -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lproven(a)cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lproven(a)gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven IoM: (+44) 7624 227612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884 Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053 --===============1027647248605783971==-- From wayne.sudol@hotmail.com Fri Jun 13 17:40:22 2025 From: Wayne S To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Bill Atkinson Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2025 17:40:13 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7072541200835846659==" --===============7072541200835846659== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Very nice article! Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 13, 2025, at 09:39, Liam Proven via cctalk = wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn Tue, 10 Jun 2025 at 00:44, Murray McCullough via cctalk > wrote: >>=20 >> drawing on a computer screen >=20 > That is such a vague way of putting it that I'm not surprised people object= ed! >=20 > He wrote MacPaint, which contained essentially the first modern > toolbars in a GUI app and after which almost all other pixel-editors > and many vector and other graphics editors are modelled. >=20 >> linking to external files >=20 > No... He wrote Hypercard, which was the first mass-market application > to use _hyperlinks_ -- previously an obscure curiosity from Ted > Nelson's Xanadu, which should have gone mainstream but didn't. >=20 > Nothing to do with files. >=20 > He also wrote LisaGraf which became Quickdraw. He designed and > implemented regions, making it possible to efficiently draw into and > update windows that were obscured by other windows. Smalltalk couldn't > do that. He didn't believe it couldn't do, not knowing they'd skipped > a very hard but very useful function, he worked out a way to > efficiently implement it. He designed a dither algorithm that was as > fast or faster than the dominant Floyd-Steinberg dither but could do > areas of true black or white without a stipple. >=20 > He designed much of the modern GUI, adding substantial functionality > to Xerox PARC's Smalltalk, Alto and Star workstations' primitive GUIs. >=20 > I wrote an obituary: >=20 > https://www.theregister.com/2025/06/11/bill_atkinson_obituary/ >=20 >=20 > -- > Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven > Email: lproven(a)cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lproven(a)gmail.com > Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven > IoM: (+44) 7624 227612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884 > Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053 --===============7072541200835846659==-- From useddec@gmail.com Sun Jun 15 11:08:30 2025 From: Paul Anderson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] DEC backplanes Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2025 06:08:14 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7129222212797604899==" --===============7129222212797604899== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been digging through a few shelves of backplanes looking for a specific one for a listmember. Along with the DD11-CK and DKs, I found a RK611 and RH11. I probably have the boards for both. Any interest? Also found a few DDV11-D which I think is a 6x9 hex qbus backplane, but it's been a while. If you need any backplanes (11/84, 11/44) or options (DR11-B, etc) now is the time! Also a lot of core memory and backplanes. Please contact me off list. Thanks, Paul --===============7129222212797604899==-- From c.murray.mccullough@gmail.com Sun Jun 15 14:36:43 2025 From: Murray McCullough To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Bill Atkinson Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2025 10:36:22 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CCO1PR08MB7208C9C41CFB044805E908A7E477A=40CO1PR08MB?= =?utf-8?q?7208=2Enamprd08=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1609405925954005142==" --===============1609405925954005142== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I stand corrected on my original note. I guess the art of correctness, even in the highly-technical world of computing, should be adhered to. The anti-science, so rapid in today's world, demands we attribute originality, preserving individual success. Murray =F0=9F=99=82 On Fri, Jun 13, 2025 at 2:29=E2=80=AFPM Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > Very nice article! > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jun 13, 2025, at 09:39, Liam Proven via cctalk > wrote: > > > > =EF=BB=BFOn Tue, 10 Jun 2025 at 00:44, Murray McCullough via cctalk > > wrote: > >> > >> drawing on a computer screen > > > > That is such a vague way of putting it that I'm not surprised people > objected! > > > > He wrote MacPaint, which contained essentially the first modern > > toolbars in a GUI app and after which almost all other pixel-editors > > and many vector and other graphics editors are modelled. > > > >> linking to external files > > > > No... He wrote Hypercard, which was the first mass-market application > > to use _hyperlinks_ -- previously an obscure curiosity from Ted > > Nelson's Xanadu, which should have gone mainstream but didn't. > > > > Nothing to do with files. > > > > He also wrote LisaGraf which became Quickdraw. He designed and > > implemented regions, making it possible to efficiently draw into and > > update windows that were obscured by other windows. Smalltalk couldn't > > do that. He didn't believe it couldn't do, not knowing they'd skipped > > a very hard but very useful function, he worked out a way to > > efficiently implement it. He designed a dither algorithm that was as > > fast or faster than the dominant Floyd-Steinberg dither but could do > > areas of true black or white without a stipple. > > > > He designed much of the modern GUI, adding substantial functionality > > to Xerox PARC's Smalltalk, Alto and Star workstations' primitive GUIs. > > > > I wrote an obituary: > > > > https://www.theregister.com/2025/06/11/bill_atkinson_obituary/ > > > > > > -- > > Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven > > Email: lproven(a)cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lproven(a)gmail.com > > Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven > > IoM: (+44) 7624 227612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884 > > Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053 > --===============1609405925954005142==-- From silent700@gmail.com Wed Jun 18 05:44:12 2025 From: Jason T To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] VCF Midwest 20 Pre-Tabling Announcement Announcement Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2025 00:43:46 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5301298166966869728==" --===============5301298166966869728== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The table request form for VCF Midwest 20 will open at 19:00 CDT next Friday, June 27th. Read the mailing list announcement here: https://list.vcfmw.org/w/TagW1e4K9x4Rl8wpSnorrA (and join the mailing list, too, if you haven't!) -jt --===============5301298166966869728==-- From bhilpert@shaw.ca Wed Jun 18 21:03:53 2025 From: Brent Hilpert To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Boot-to-BASIC / was Re: Looking for IBM System/3 BASIC book Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2025 13:56:38 -0700 Message-ID: <843C99C6-2130-44BC-AAEB-4BFA5763D091@shaw.ca> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0476452595882627109==" --===============0476452595882627109== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A few weeks ago this question was raised: On 2025 May 6, at 11:20 PM, Steve Lewis via cctalk = wrote: > Anyway, it leads to a question of what was the first boot-to-BASIC system? The first to come to mind was the HP-9830, it was mentioned but seemingly dis= missed: > And tentatively I'm thinking that might have been the Wang 2200 (but I've > no idea what the "lineage" of the Wang 2200 BASIC was). Yes, yes, there > was the HP9830 (if the BASIC ROM cartridge was inserted) - sales of both > systems seemed to have started really in =E2=80=9974. To my awareness, the 9830 was the first boot-to-BASIC-from-ROM-at-power-on ma= chine, or =E2=80=98BASIC appliance=E2=80=99. Available/announced late 1972. = (It didn=E2=80=99t need a 'BASIC ROM cartridge' to be inserted - BASIC in ROM= was built-in as part of the standard out-of-the-box system. Optional ROM ca= rtridges could be plugged-in to extend the built-in BASIC.)=20 However, there was a much-earlier system: As early as mid-1968 HP was market= ing single-user HP BASIC for the HP-2116 (or 2115, 2114). (This was distinct= from HP-2000 time-shared BASIC). It didn=E2=80=99t automatically boot, but = with 3 button-pushes you could be in the full BASIC environment (=E2=80=9CREA= DY=E2=80=9D) in less than 2 seconds from power-on. No (re-)loading required,= nor disk or tape drives, nor separate OS or executive. This was, of course,= thanks to the non-volatility of core. This replay is late because I had to get around to conforming that the above = actually works, that is, you could repeatedly reboot the prior-loaded interpr= eter across many power cycles - it didn=E2=80=99t alter anything after boot t= hat would necessitate re-loading. --===============0476452595882627109==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Fri Jun 20 16:56:16 2025 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] eBay strikes again!! Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 12:56:01 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5413057630465459686==" --===============5413057630465459686== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just when I thought eBay couldn't get much stupider... I went out to see if I could find a current going price for PDP-11 Pedestal Boxes as I have a couple I would like to cull from my collection. I came upon this: DEC PDP 11/23 - BC needs Power Supply Repair, NO cards, Vintage DEC History $900.00 If it has no cards, what makes it a PDP-11/23 other than the paint on the front cover? Dead PSU? Looks like a $900 backplane to me. And that is making the assumption that the backplane is actually usable. :-) bill --===============5413057630465459686==-- From uban@ubanproductions.com Fri Jun 20 17:20:23 2025 From: Tom Uban To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 12:15:05 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CLV8P221MB14694C8691BBF442162B16A8ED7CA=40LV8P221MB?= =?utf-8?q?1469=2ENAMP221=2EPROD=2EOUTLOOK=2ECOM=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1325555189042459578==" --===============1325555189042459578== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 6/20/25 11:56, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > Just when I thought eBay couldn't get much stupider... > > I went out to see if I could find a current going price for > PDP-11 Pedestal Boxes as I have a couple I would like to > cull from my collection.  I came upon this: > > DEC PDP 11/23 - BC needs Power Supply Repair, NO cards, Vintage DEC History > $900.00 > > If it has no cards, what makes it a PDP-11/23 other than the paint > on the front cover?  Dead PSU?  Looks like a $900 backplane to me. > And that is making the assumption that the backplane is actually > usable.  :-) > > bill Pretty crazy, but I suppose some people are just fishing. If someone is looking for an complete 11/73 system (2 RL11 drives, several RL11 packs, etc), I have one in NW Indiana. It all ran fine when I got it in the late '90s and has been stored in a controlled environment. Make me an offer. --tom --===============1325555189042459578==-- From stuff@riddermarkfarm.ca Fri Jun 20 17:40:35 2025 From: Stuff Received To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 13:30:52 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CLV8P221MB14694C8691BBF442162B16A8ED7CA=40LV8P221MB?= =?utf-8?q?1469=2ENAMP221=2EPROD=2EOUTLOOK=2ECOM=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6031351749361454644==" --===============6031351749361454644== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 2025-06-20 12:56, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > Just when I thought eBay couldn't get much stupider... I thought that the seller set the prices, not ebay. > > I went out to see if I could find a current going price for > PDP-11 Pedestal Boxes as I have a couple I would like to > cull from my collection.  I came upon this: > > DEC PDP 11/23 - BC needs Power Supply Repair, NO cards, Vintage DEC History > $900.00 > > If it has no cards, what makes it a PDP-11/23 other than the paint > on the front cover?  Dead PSU?  Looks like a $900 backplane to me. > And that is making the assumption that the backplane is actually > usable.  :-) > > bill --===============6031351749361454644==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Fri Jun 20 17:42:34 2025 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 13:42:01 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2351972339934527115==" --===============2351972339934527115== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 6/20/2025 1:15 PM, Tom Uban via cctalk wrote: > On 6/20/25 11:56, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >> Just when I thought eBay couldn't get much stupider... >> >> I went out to see if I could find a current going price for >> PDP-11 Pedestal Boxes as I have a couple I would like to >> cull from my collection.  I came upon this: >> >> DEC PDP 11/23 - BC needs Power Supply Repair, NO cards, Vintage DEC >> History >> $900.00 >> >> If it has no cards, what makes it a PDP-11/23 other than the paint >> on the front cover?  Dead PSU?  Looks like a $900 backplane to me. >> And that is making the assumption that the backplane is actually >> usable.  :-) >> >> bill > > Pretty crazy, but I suppose some people are just fishing. > > If someone is looking for an complete 11/73 system (2 RL11 drives, > several RL11 packs, etc), I have one in NW Indiana. It all ran fine when I > got it in the late '90s and has been stored in a controlled environment. > Make me an offer. > I assume you mean RL01 or Rl02 disks and packs as the RL11 is the controller. My very first PDP-11 was an 11/24 with 4 RL02 disks. It came from Highlights Magazine and was one of my nicer systems. Sorry I ever gave that one away. And, every once in a while, I start to wonder what Highlights moved to. Sadly, probably a PC. bill --===============2351972339934527115==-- From bitwiz@12bitsbest.com Fri Jun 20 17:45:11 2025 From: Mike Katz To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 12:44:54 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8800854329162250138==" --===============8800854329162250138== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit People can ask what ever they want on ebay, if you want to see what people are actually paying search completed auctions. I can ask $10,000 for a penny but that doesn't mean that anyone will pay it. On 6/20/2025 12:15 PM, Tom Uban via cctalk wrote: > On 6/20/25 11:56, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >> Just when I thought eBay couldn't get much stupider... >> >> I went out to see if I could find a current going price for >> PDP-11 Pedestal Boxes as I have a couple I would like to >> cull from my collection.  I came upon this: >> >> DEC PDP 11/23 - BC needs Power Supply Repair, NO cards, Vintage DEC >> History >> $900.00 >> >> If it has no cards, what makes it a PDP-11/23 other than the paint >> on the front cover?  Dead PSU?  Looks like a $900 backplane to me. >> And that is making the assumption that the backplane is actually >> usable.  :-) >> >> bill > > Pretty crazy, but I suppose some people are just fishing. > > If someone is looking for an complete 11/73 system (2 RL11 drives, > several RL11 packs, etc), I have one in NW Indiana. It all ran fine > when I > got it in the late '90s and has been stored in a controlled environment. > Make me an offer. > > --tom > --===============8800854329162250138==-- From uban@ubanproductions.com Fri Jun 20 18:20:22 2025 From: Tom Uban To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 13:20:11 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CLV8P221MB14697E6F8C3202C9AD56D372ED7CA=40LV8P221MB?= =?utf-8?q?1469=2ENAMP221=2EPROD=2EOUTLOOK=2ECOM=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3905842207431821109==" --===============3905842207431821109== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 6/20/25 12:42, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > > On 6/20/2025 1:15 PM, Tom Uban via cctalk wrote: >> On 6/20/25 11:56, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >>> Just when I thought eBay couldn't get much stupider... >>> >>> I went out to see if I could find a current going price for >>> PDP-11 Pedestal Boxes as I have a couple I would like to >>> cull from my collection.=C2=A0 I came upon this: >>> >>> DEC PDP 11/23 - BC needs Power Supply Repair, NO cards, Vintage DEC Histo= ry >>> $900.00 >>> >>> If it has no cards, what makes it a PDP-11/23 other than the paint >>> on the front cover?=C2=A0 Dead PSU?=C2=A0 Looks like a $900 backplane to = me. >>> And that is making the assumption that the backplane is actually >>> usable.=C2=A0 :-) >>> >>> bill >> >> Pretty crazy, but I suppose some people are just fishing. >> >> If someone is looking for an complete 11/73 system (2 RL11 drives, >> several RL11 packs, etc), I have one in NW Indiana. It all ran fine when I >> got it in the late '90s and has been stored in a controlled environment. >> Make me an offer. >> > > I assume you mean RL01 or Rl02 disks and packs as the RL11 is the > controller. > > My very first PDP-11 was an 11/24 with 4 RL02 disks. It came from > Highlights Magazine and was one of my nicer systems.=C2=A0 Sorry I ever > gave that one away. > > And, every once in a while, I start to wonder what Highlights moved > to.=C2=A0 Sadly, probably a PC. > > bill > Yes, you are of course correct. They are RL02 drives/packs and there is an RL= 11 controller. --tom --===============3905842207431821109==-- From henry.r.bent@gmail.com Fri Jun 20 20:41:36 2025 From: Henry Bent To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 16:41:17 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7990400083159850268==" --===============7990400083159850268== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I offered a working 11/23 with 1MB of RAM and a DEQNA, plus an MFM drive, on this board somewhat recently and had no takers because it was local pickup only in NE Ohio. The people who are interested in this stuff are really few and far between. Sadly, the cost of shipping it freight probably outweighs the money you would get back by parting it out on eBay. -Henry On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 at 13:49, Stuff Received via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 2025-06-20 12:56, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > Just when I thought eBay couldn't get much stupider... > > I thought that the seller set the prices, not ebay. > > > > > I went out to see if I could find a current going price for > > PDP-11 Pedestal Boxes as I have a couple I would like to > > cull from my collection. I came upon this: > > > > DEC PDP 11/23 - BC needs Power Supply Repair, NO cards, Vintage DEC > History > > $900.00 > > > > If it has no cards, what makes it a PDP-11/23 other than the paint > > on the front cover? Dead PSU? Looks like a $900 backplane to me. > > And that is making the assumption that the backplane is actually > > usable. :-) > > > > bill > > --===============7990400083159850268==-- From jeffrey@vcfed.org Fri Jun 20 20:46:59 2025 From: Jeffrey Brace To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] 3 VCF's this weekend! Atlanta, Dallas, Australia Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 16:46:37 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2202872234335051732==" --===============2202872234335051732== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wow! There are 3 VCFs this weekend! VCF SE (Atlanta, GA) : https://vcfed.org/events/otherevents/vintage-computer-festival-southeast/ VCF SW (Dallas, TX): https://www.vcfsw.org/ VCF Down Under (Australia) : https://www.facebook.com/events/s/cvce-vcf-downunder-2025-planni/590408286989= 203/?mibextid=3DwwXIfr&rdid=3DCtMETYu9lX4cw71O# Jeff Brace --===============2202872234335051732==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Fri Jun 20 21:01:10 2025 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 16:52:42 -0400 Message-ID: <99145E6E-08B7-4561-AF87-96F0F5BB8A26@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6830269615019376071==" --===============6830269615019376071== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm always puzzled by "local only" offers. It's expected that shipping costs= get added, but why would a seller make a decision that shipping is "too expe= nsive"? Logically the buyer should decide that, and if the buyer will pay th= e shipping, even if pricy, why not do the transaction? paul > On Jun 20, 2025, at 4:41=E2=80=AFPM, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote: >=20 > I offered a working 11/23 with 1MB of RAM and a DEQNA, plus an MFM drive, > on this board somewhat recently and had no takers because it was local > pickup only in NE Ohio. The people who are interested in this stuff are > really few and far between. Sadly, the cost of shipping it freight > probably outweighs the money you would get back by parting it out on eBay. >=20 > -Henry --===============6830269615019376071==-- From johnhreinhardt@thereinhardts.org Fri Jun 20 21:05:44 2025 From: "John H. Reinhardt" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 16:05:36 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CLV8P221MB14694C8691BBF442162B16A8ED7CA=40LV8P221MB?= =?utf-8?q?1469=2ENAMP221=2EPROD=2EOUTLOOK=2ECOM=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7333826429479535020==" --===============7333826429479535020== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 6/20/2025 11:56 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > Just when I thought eBay couldn't get much stupider... > > I went out to see if I could find a current going price for > PDP-11 Pedestal Boxes as I have a couple I would like to > cull from my collection.=C2=A0 I came upon this: > > DEC PDP 11/23 - BC needs Power Supply Repair, NO cards, Vintage DEC History > $900.00 > > If it has no cards, what makes it a PDP-11/23 other than the paint > on the front cover?=C2=A0 Dead PSU?=C2=A0 Looks like a $900 backplane to me. > And that is making the assumption that the backplane is actually > usable.=C2=A0 :-) > > bill Yeah, that one's been there a while.=C2=A0 Started out a lot higher.=C2=A0 Th= e seller had grand dreams of what his stuff is worth.=C2=A0 He's got a few ot= her DEC itmes and some older PC stuff. I just bought a PDP-11/23 in a pedestal box.=C2=A0 It started out at $1750 bu= t got no takers.=C2=A0 The seller had lots of exterior photos but nothing of = the inside to show for sure what was in it.=C2=A0 The price finally dropped d= own to $1000 and I bought it.=C2=A0 Mostly for the Pedestal box which was in = decent shape but did have a small corner broken off the footing. Bill,=C2=A0 I think you would have buyers if you priced around $500 depending= on the condition.=C2=A0 Would it include the BA23 chassis or just be the emp= ty shell? You won't find any listings just for the Pedestal Box, everything I've seen i= n the last year or so has been with the BA23 and at least a few boards and so= metimes a complete, running PDP-11 setup with disk.=C2=A0 You will probably h= ave to search the sold listings back farther than Ebay keeps them to find jus= t the pedestal for sale. --=20 John H. Reinhardt --===============7333826429479535020==-- From henry.r.bent@gmail.com Fri Jun 20 21:25:42 2025 From: Henry Bent To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 17:25:25 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <99145E6E-08B7-4561-AF87-96F0F5BB8A26@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5650697562451021284==" --===============5650697562451021284== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Fair enough. If you want to come collect it in NE Ohio, or make an offer to me to meet me halfway somewhere for gas costs, have at it. It's still here and functional. -Henry On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 at 16:52, Paul Koning wrote: > I'm always puzzled by "local only" offers. It's expected that shipping > costs get added, but why would a seller make a decision that shipping is > "too expensive"? Logically the buyer should decide that, and if the buyer > will pay the shipping, even if pricy, why not do the transaction? > > paul > > > On Jun 20, 2025, at 4:41 PM, Henry Bent via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > I offered a working 11/23 with 1MB of RAM and a DEQNA, plus an MFM drive, > > on this board somewhat recently and had no takers because it was local > > pickup only in NE Ohio. The people who are interested in this stuff are > > really few and far between. Sadly, the cost of shipping it freight > > probably outweighs the money you would get back by parting it out on > eBay. > > > > -Henry > > --===============5650697562451021284==-- From dave.g4ugm@gmail.com Fri Jun 20 21:40:46 2025 From: David Wade To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 22:40:38 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9020074299541733685==" --===============9020074299541733685== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 20/06/2025 18:44, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > People can ask what ever they want on ebay, if you want to see what > people are actually paying search completed auctions. > Yes, but E-Bay suggests a price... > I can ask $10,000 for a penny but that doesn't mean that anyone will > pay it. > > On 6/20/2025 12:15 PM, Tom Uban via cctalk wrote: >> On 6/20/25 11:56, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >>> Just when I thought eBay couldn't get much stupider... >>> >>> I went out to see if I could find a current going price for >>> PDP-11 Pedestal Boxes as I have a couple I would like to >>> cull from my collection.  I came upon this: >>> >>> DEC PDP 11/23 - BC needs Power Supply Repair, NO cards, Vintage DEC >>> History >>> $900.00 >>> When you search its worth sorting the list by "newly listed" then you can see how long it has been on the site. Sometimes looking at older versions can also help. Some folks are just hoping some one needs a particular model for safety compliance and will be a large about to avoid re-certification. Dave G4UGM >>> If it has no cards, what makes it a PDP-11/23 other than the paint >>> on the front cover?  Dead PSU?  Looks like a $900 backplane to me. >>> And that is making the assumption that the backplane is actually >>> usable.  :-) >>> >>> bill >> >> Pretty crazy, but I suppose some people are just fishing. >> >> If someone is looking for an complete 11/73 system (2 RL11 drives, >> several RL11 packs, etc), I have one in NW Indiana. It all ran fine >> when I >> got it in the late '90s and has been stored in a controlled environment. >> Make me an offer. >> >> --tom >> > --===============9020074299541733685==-- From tony@tonyjones.com Fri Jun 20 21:44:31 2025 From: Tony Jones To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 14:44:14 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <99145E6E-08B7-4561-AF87-96F0F5BB8A26@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4684537133450965487==" --===============4684537133450965487== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 20, 2025, 2:09=E2=80=AFPM Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > I'm always puzzled by "local only" offers. It's expected that shipping > costs get added, but why would a seller make a decision that shipping is > "too expensive"? Logically the buyer should decide that, and if the buyer > will pay the shipping, even if pricy, why not do the transaction? Sometimes sellers are not interested in the hassle of packaging a certain item. Perhaps it's fragile and they're concerned it won't arrive undamaged causing a NAD and being out of pocket for 2x shipping and now having a damaged item. --===============4684537133450965487==-- From frank@artair.com Fri Jun 20 21:47:27 2025 From: Frank Smith To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Local only - was: Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 16:46:41 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <99145E6E-08B7-4561-AF87-96F0F5BB8A26@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7072793276104820329==" --===============7072793276104820329== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It=E2=80=99s not just that shipping is =E2=80=9Ctoo expensive=E2=80=9D, it ca= n be a huge hassle depending on the items. For large and/or heavy items, the = seller may not have the time, materials, expertise, or ability to properly bo= x or crate the items for shipping and find a carrier that will pick it up. If you see an item you really want that says =E2=80=9Clocal pickup only=E2= =80=9D you can probably get the seller to agree to still sell it to you if yo= u are willing to arrange all packing/shipping. He likely doesn=E2=80=99t care= whether or not the buyer is the actual person arriving at his door to pick u= p the item, as long as he doesn=E2=80=99t have to do anything other than poin= t to it. Frank > On Jun 20, 2025, at 4:09=E2=80=AFPM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFI'm always puzzled by "local only" offers. It's expected that shi= pping costs get added, but why would a seller make a decision that shipping i= s "too expensive"? Logically the buyer should decide that, and if the buyer = will pay the shipping, even if pricy, why not do the transaction? >=20 > paul >=20 >> On Jun 20, 2025, at 4:41=E2=80=AFPM, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote: >>=20 >> I offered a working 11/23 with 1MB of RAM and a DEQNA, plus an MFM drive, >> on this board somewhat recently and had no takers because it was local >> pickup only in NE Ohio. The people who are interested in this stuff are >> really few and far between. Sadly, the cost of shipping it freight >> probably outweighs the money you would get back by parting it out on eBay. >>=20 >> -Henry >=20 --===============7072793276104820329==-- From mjd.bishop@emeritus-solutions.com Fri Jun 20 21:51:39 2025 From: Martin Bishop To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 21:51:30 +0000 Message-ID: <680b6b6b55d146099e9c9abf0afa3c2c@emeritus-solutions.com> In-Reply-To: <99145E6E-08B7-4561-AF87-96F0F5BB8A26@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2675420185039813934==" --===============2675420185039813934== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Local Only" because folk either don't want the buyers grief over (potential = / guaranteed) transit damage, or (for folk who cherish old systems) they want= to hand them on directly to another pair of kid gloves. I have seen quite a few things come to grief in transit, old plastic moulding= s seem guaranteed to be packed where bounce testing can crack them; best to h= and carry. Alternatively, you have to use serious packing - wooden or metal = boxes with designed supports / restraints / padding, not bubbles and cardboar= d. Martin PS I would be up for an 11/23, but I'm an ocean away - in the UK. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Koning via cctalk [mailto:cctalk(a)classiccmp.org]=20 Sent: 20 June 2025 20:53 To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Cc: Henry Bent ; Paul Koning Subject: [cctalk] Re: eBay strikes again!! I'm always puzzled by "local only" offers. It's expected that shipping costs= get added, but why would a seller make a decision that shipping is "too expe= nsive"? Logically the buyer should decide that, and if the buyer will pay th= e shipping, even if pricy, why not do the transaction? paul > On Jun 20, 2025, at 4:41=E2=80=AFPM, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote: >=20 > I offered a working 11/23 with 1MB of RAM and a DEQNA, plus an MFM=20 > drive, on this board somewhat recently and had no takers because it=20 > was local pickup only in NE Ohio. The people who are interested in=20 > this stuff are really few and far between. Sadly, the cost of=20 > shipping it freight probably outweighs the money you would get back by part= ing it out on eBay. >=20 > -Henry --===============2675420185039813934==-- From artgodwin@gmail.com Fri Jun 20 21:52:18 2025 From: Adrian Godwin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 3 VCF's this weekend! Atlanta, Dallas, Australia Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 22:51:58 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1645242030220183627==" --===============1645242030220183627== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Do we ever have one in the UK ? I think the nearest thing I've seen recently is the retro festival at the Cambridge CCH museum. TNMoC of course has excellent fixed exhibits but I don't think it's had guests for a long while. On Fri, Jun 20, 2025 at 9:54=E2=80=AFPM Jeffrey Brace via cctalk wrote: > > Wow! There are 3 VCFs this weekend! > > VCF SE (Atlanta, GA) : > https://vcfed.org/events/otherevents/vintage-computer-festival-southeast/ > VCF SW (Dallas, TX): https://www.vcfsw.org/ > VCF Down Under (Australia) : > https://www.facebook.com/events/s/cvce-vcf-downunder-2025-planni/5904082869= 89203/?mibextid=3DwwXIfr&rdid=3DCtMETYu9lX4cw71O# > > Jeff Brace --===============1645242030220183627==-- From spectre@floodgap.com Fri Jun 20 22:06:14 2025 From: Cameron Kaiser To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 14:58:04 -0700 Message-ID: <00f9494e-b4c1-4f0a-ab75-5028208e982e@floodgap.com> In-Reply-To: <99145E6E-08B7-4561-AF87-96F0F5BB8A26@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3028579494656137223==" --===============3028579494656137223== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I'm always puzzled by "local only" offers. It's expected that shipping=20 > costs get added, but why would a seller make a decision that shipping is > "too expensive"? Logically the buyer should decide that, and if the=20 > buyer will pay the shipping, even if pricy, why not do the transaction? I can see that if it's a purchase. But if it's a "come and take it," sometimes it's more trouble than it's worth. I remember quibbling with someone a few years ago when I was getting rid of some software because he didn't like the shipping quote. Plus, there's also the whole packing business. --=20 ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ = -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser(a)floodgap.c= om -- There is always one more imbecile than you counted on. -------------------= -- --===============3028579494656137223==-- From epekstrom@gmail.com Fri Jun 20 22:20:45 2025 From: Peter Ekstrom To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 3 VCF's this weekend! Atlanta, Dallas, Australia Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 18:20:27 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5143565387242780084==" --===============5143565387242780084== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm looking forward to the one here in Atlanta tomorrow. :) Wonder what kind of PDP-11 stuff I'll find, if any. - Peter On Fri, Jun 20, 2025 at 5:59=E2=80=AFPM Adrian Godwin via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Do we ever have one in the UK ? > I think the nearest thing I've seen recently is the retro festival at > the Cambridge CCH museum. > TNMoC of course has excellent fixed exhibits but I don't think it's > had guests for a long while. > > On Fri, Jun 20, 2025 at 9:54=E2=80=AFPM Jeffrey Brace via cctalk > wrote: > > > > Wow! There are 3 VCFs this weekend! > > > > VCF SE (Atlanta, GA) : > > > https://vcfed.org/events/otherevents/vintage-computer-festival-southeast/ > > VCF SW (Dallas, TX): https://www.vcfsw.org/ > > VCF Down Under (Australia) : > > > https://www.facebook.com/events/s/cvce-vcf-downunder-2025-planni/5904082869= 89203/?mibextid=3DwwXIfr&rdid=3DCtMETYu9lX4cw71O# > > > > Jeff Brace > --===============5143565387242780084==-- From mjd.bishop@emeritus-solutions.com Fri Jun 20 22:22:10 2025 From: Martin Bishop To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 3 VCF's this weekend! Atlanta, Dallas, Australia Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 22:22:03 +0000 Message-ID: <1f10b4e5de804bdeb1b2003a9167b1f7@emeritus-solutions.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5121302631857450935==" --===============5121302631857450935== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It would be a good thing Where is the UKs centre of gravity - wrt interested folk ? Martin DT1 2BS (postcode) -----Original Message----- From: Adrian Godwin via cctalk [mailto:cctalk(a)classiccmp.org]=20 Sent: 20 June 2025 21:52 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: Adrian Godwin Subject: [cctalk] Re: 3 VCF's this weekend! Atlanta, Dallas, Australia Do we ever have one in the UK ? I think the nearest thing I've seen recently is the retro festival at the Cam= bridge CCH museum. TNMoC of course has excellent fixed exhibits but I don't think it's had guest= s for a long while. On Fri, Jun 20, 2025 at 9:54=E2=80=AFPM Jeffrey Brace via cctalk wrote: > > Wow! There are 3 VCFs this weekend! > > VCF SE (Atlanta, GA) : > https://vcfed.org/events/otherevents/vintage-computer-festival-southea > st/ VCF SW (Dallas, TX): https://www.vcfsw.org/ VCF Down Under=20 > (Australia) : > https://www.facebook.com/events/s/cvce-vcf-downunder-2025-planni/59040 > 8286989203/?mibextid=3DwwXIfr&rdid=3DCtMETYu9lX4cw71O# > > Jeff Brace --===============5121302631857450935==-- From pete@dunnington.plus.com Fri Jun 20 22:27:09 2025 From: Pete Turnbull To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 3 VCF's this weekend! Atlanta, Dallas, Australia Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 23:18:38 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7959332930487812941==" --===============7959332930487812941== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 20/06/2025 22:51, Adrian Godwin via cctalk wrote: > Do we ever have one in the UK ? Yes and no. TNMoC ran one several years ago at Bletchley, but haven't repeated it since. I suspect that fell foul of the animosity between the Bletchley Park Trust and TNMoC. However, there was a preliminary announcement on Facebook from Simon Hewitt on 32 May for a VCF 2026 in the UK. > If you'd like to get in touch, please email > info(a)vintagecomputerfestival.org.uk. If you're a collector, run > computing events yourself or if you just love retro computers, gaming, > coding or just anything vintage - then we want to hear from you! > Likewise if you or your business would like to sponsor or be a part of > what we are creating then please get in touch! -- Pete Pete Turnbull --===============7959332930487812941==-- From jakeutley@outlook.com Fri Jun 20 22:34:28 2025 From: jake utley To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 3 VCF's this weekend! Atlanta, Dallas, Australia Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 22:34:16 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0361478916300193124==" --===============0361478916300193124== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > :=EF=BB=BFDo we ever have one in the UK ? > I think the nearest thing I've seen recently is the retro festival at > the Cambridge CCH museum. > TNMoC of course has excellent fixed exhibits but I don't think it's > had guests for a long while. VCF UK 2026 has been announced it=E2=80=99s back on but details haven=E2=80= =99t been confirmed=20 --===============0361478916300193124==-- From macro@orcam.me.uk Fri Jun 20 23:18:48 2025 From: "Maciej W. Rozycki" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 00:13:14 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <00f9494e-b4c1-4f0a-ab75-5028208e982e@floodgap.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3623849973397622017==" --===============3623849973397622017== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 20 Jun 2025, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote: > > I'm always puzzled by "local only" offers. It's expected that shipping=20 > > costs get added, but why would a seller make a decision that shipping is > > "too expensive"? Logically the buyer should decide that, and if the=20 > > buyer will pay the shipping, even if pricy, why not do the transaction? >=20 > I can see that if it's a purchase. But if it's a "come and take it," someti= mes > it's more trouble than it's worth. I remember quibbling with someone a few > years ago when I was getting rid of some software because he didn't like the > shipping quote. Plus, there's also the whole packing business. I think even if it's a purchase from a private individual rather than a=20 business. I'd interpret "local pickup only" as either "come and grab it=20 yourself (or ask a friend living nearby, or passing by, etc.)," or "hire=20 someone to get it picked up as it is, packaged/palletised, and shipped as=20 required." I'm not sure I could be bothered to package some stuff that I own, should=20 I find myself in a position to part with it, especially pieces I picked up=20 myself in the first place, or ones I had to fix transit damage to already,=20 usually due to their weight. FWIW, Maciej --===============3623849973397622017==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Sat Jun 21 01:38:53 2025 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 21:38:31 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4906474851339691909==" --===============4906474851339691909== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 6/20/2025 4:41 PM, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote: > Sadly, the cost of shipping it freight > probably outweighs the money you would get back by parting it out on eBay. You mean like this one? :-) ULTRA RARE PDP-11 DIGITAL DEC 1970's PC05 PR11 HIGH SPEED Tape Reader ONLY $2.00 $580.00 shipping bill --===============4906474851339691909==-- From bill.gunshannon@hotmail.com Sat Jun 21 01:41:47 2025 From: Bill Gunshannon To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 21:41:16 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <99145E6E-08B7-4561-AF87-96F0F5BB8A26@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5055618006469576264==" --===============5055618006469576264== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 6/20/2025 4:52 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > I'm always puzzled by "local only" offers. It's expected that shipping cos= ts get added, but why would a seller make a decision that shipping is "too ex= pensive"? Logically the buyer should decide that, and if the buyer will pay = the shipping, even if pricy, why not do the transaction? Could be because he lives in a place like I do where shipping isn't even possible without driving for more than an hour. bill --===============5055618006469576264==-- From bitwiz@12bitsbest.com Sat Jun 21 01:47:52 2025 From: Mike Katz To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 20:47:45 -0500 Message-ID: <573062d1-8c25-4e82-adde-e141e118ebfd@12bitsbest.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9179331169380571891==" --===============9179331169380571891== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit AT $500 I might be interested to branch out from my pdp-8 world if it boots a PDP-11 OS (or multiple OS's) On 6/20/2025 4:05 PM, John H. Reinhardt via cctalk wrote: > On 6/20/2025 11:56 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >> Just when I thought eBay couldn't get much stupider... >> >> I went out to see if I could find a current going price for >> PDP-11 Pedestal Boxes as I have a couple I would like to >> cull from my collection.  I came upon this: >> >> DEC PDP 11/23 - BC needs Power Supply Repair, NO cards, Vintage DEC >> History >> $900.00 >> >> If it has no cards, what makes it a PDP-11/23 other than the paint >> on the front cover?  Dead PSU?  Looks like a $900 backplane to me. >> And that is making the assumption that the backplane is actually >> usable.  :-) >> >> bill > > > Yeah, that one's been there a while.  Started out a lot higher. The > seller had grand dreams of what his stuff is worth.  He's got a few > other DEC itmes and some older PC stuff. > > I just bought a PDP-11/23 in a pedestal box.  It started out at $1750 > but got no takers.  The seller had lots of exterior photos but nothing > of the inside to show for sure what was in it.  The price finally > dropped down to $1000 and I bought it.  Mostly for the Pedestal box > which was in decent shape but did have a small corner broken off the > footing. > > Bill,  I think you would have buyers if you priced around $500 > depending on the condition.  Would it include the BA23 chassis or just > be the empty shell? > > You won't find any listings just for the Pedestal Box, everything I've > seen in the last year or so has been with the BA23 and at least a few > boards and sometimes a complete, running PDP-11 setup with disk.  You > will probably have to search the sold listings back farther than Ebay > keeps them to find just the pedestal for sale. > --===============9179331169380571891==-- From bitwiz@12bitsbest.com Sat Jun 21 02:07:28 2025 From: Mike Katz To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 21:07:20 -0500 Message-ID: <2338c40d-1750-4e96-9744-38cbc3eb875d@12bitsbest.com> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CLV8P221MB1469A669F2C7A5D3C9DDD09BED7FA=40LV8P221MB?= =?utf-8?q?1469=2ENAMP221=2EPROD=2EOUTLOOK=2ECOM=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8044249960904354297==" --===============8044249960904354297== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I saw that one and thought about complaining to ebay about ridiculous shipping until I realized it was in Canada. On 6/20/2025 8:38 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > > On 6/20/2025 4:41 PM, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote: >> Sadly, the cost of shipping it freight >> probably outweighs the money you would get back by parting it out on >> eBay. > > You mean like this one?  :-) > > ULTRA RARE PDP-11 DIGITAL DEC 1970's PC05 PR11 HIGH SPEED Tape Reader > ONLY > $2.00 > $580.00 shipping > > > bill --===============8044249960904354297==-- From bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca Sat Jun 21 03:08:33 2025 From: ben To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 20:53:18 -0600 Message-ID: <6b9fb7bf-f241-4f40-999c-88d1a13fcd53@jetnet.ab.ca> In-Reply-To: <2338c40d-1750-4e96-9744-38cbc3eb875d@12bitsbest.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2788241937682868883==" --===============2788241937682868883== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 2025-06-20 8:07 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: >> ULTRA RARE PDP-11 DIGITAL DEC 1970's PC05 PR11 HIGH SPEED Tape Reader >> ONLY >> $2.00 >> $580.00 shipping >> >> >> bill > What is the real price of shipping for big things, like rack mounted PDP-XYZ in a wooden crate? Back then big iron was big iron. Ben. --===============2788241937682868883==-- From glen.slick@gmail.com Sat Jun 21 03:24:21 2025 From: Glen Slick To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 20:23:58 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CLV8P221MB1469A669F2C7A5D3C9DDD09BED7FA=40LV8P221MB?= =?utf-8?q?1469=2ENAMP221=2EPROD=2EOUTLOOK=2ECOM=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2221148183022851890==" --===============2221148183022851890== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Fri, Jun 20, 2025 at 6:54 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > You mean like this one? :-) > > ULTRA RARE PDP-11 DIGITAL DEC 1970's PC05 PR11 HIGH SPEED Tape Reader ONLY > $2.00 > $580.00 shipping I have no direct knowledge of any kind about that seller. There have been some opinions about that seller posted on the VCfed forum by other people, for whatever those may or may not be worth. --===============2221148183022851890==-- From glen.slick@gmail.com Sat Jun 21 03:37:07 2025 From: Glen Slick To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Local only - was: Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 20:36:47 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4916917461623182502==" --===============4916917461623182502== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 20, 2025 at 7:34=E2=80=AFPM Frank Smith via cctalk wrote: > > It=E2=80=99s not just that shipping is =E2=80=9Ctoo expensive=E2=80=9D, it = can be a huge hassle depending on the items. For large and/or heavy items, th= e seller may not have the time, materials, expertise, or ability to properly = box or crate the items for shipping and find a carrier that will pick it up. > If you see an item you really want that says =E2=80=9Clocal pickup only= =E2=80=9D you can probably get the seller to agree to still sell it to you if= you are willing to arrange all packing/shipping. He likely doesn=E2=80=99t c= are whether or not the buyer is the actual person arriving at his door to pic= k up the item, as long as he doesn=E2=80=99t have to do anything other than p= oint to it. > Exactly. For example, I have an AlphaServer system that weighs around 200 pounds that I posted elsewhere for local pickup only. (No takers yet). In my opinion, the only reasonable way to ship it would be strapped to a pallet via freight shipping. That's the way it was originally shipped to me 13 years ago. It was expensive shipping back then, it could only be even more expensive now. I'm in no position to palletize something for shipping myself, and I wouldn't want to have any responsibility for anything that went wrong during shipping, especially if someone paid a large sum for the shipping, more than the value of the item being shipped. --===============4916917461623182502==-- From ethan.dicks@gmail.com Sat Jun 21 03:52:53 2025 From: Ethan Dicks To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 23:52:35 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4261467791015573713==" --===============4261467791015573713== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Fri, Jun 20, 2025 at 5:29 PM Henry Bent via cctalk wrote: > I offered a working 11/23 with 1MB of RAM and a DEQNA, plus an MFM drive, > on this board somewhat recently and had no takers because it was local > pickup only in NE Ohio. I'm close, and did comment, but I already have more than one BA23, and a DQ614 interface. I love PDP-11s but I recently got a (working) pedestal MicroPDP-11/53 for under $300, and already have at least one MicroPDP-11/23 and am not looking to buy another one. -ethan --===============4261467791015573713==-- From henry.r.bent@gmail.com Sat Jun 21 03:55:31 2025 From: Henry Bent To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 23:55:13 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6b9fb7bf-f241-4f40-999c-88d1a13fcd53@jetnet.ab.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3588133984084213720==" --===============3588133984084213720== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 at 23:44, ben via cctalk wrote: > On 2025-06-20 8:07 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > > >> ULTRA RARE PDP-11 DIGITAL DEC 1970's PC05 PR11 HIGH SPEED Tape Reader > >> ONLY > >> $2.00 > >> $580.00 shipping > >> > >> > >> bill > > > > What is the real price of shipping for big things, like rack mounted > PDP-XYZ in a wooden crate? Back then big iron was big iron. > Ben. > > Depends. Are you taking it to a shipping facility or having it collected? -Henry --===============3588133984084213720==-- From henry.r.bent@gmail.com Sat Jun 21 04:02:58 2025 From: Henry Bent To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Local only - was: Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 00:02:40 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1528944478593170656==" --===============1528944478593170656== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 at 23:59, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, Jun 20, 2025 at 7:34=E2=80=AFPM Frank Smith via cctalk > wrote: > > > > It=E2=80=99s not just that shipping is =E2=80=9Ctoo expensive=E2=80=9D, i= t can be a huge hassle > depending on the items. For large and/or heavy items, the seller may not > have the time, materials, expertise, or ability to properly box or crate > the items for shipping and find a carrier that will pick it up. > > If you see an item you really want that says =E2=80=9Clocal pickup only= =E2=80=9D you > can probably get the seller to agree to still sell it to you if you are > willing to arrange all packing/shipping. He likely doesn=E2=80=99t care whe= ther or > not the buyer is the actual person arriving at his door to pick up the > item, as long as he doesn=E2=80=99t have to do anything other than point to= it. > > > > Exactly. For example, I have an AlphaServer system that weighs around > 200 pounds that I posted elsewhere for local pickup only. (No takers > yet). In my opinion, the only reasonable way to ship it would be > strapped to a pallet via freight shipping. That's the way it was > originally shipped to me 13 years ago. It was expensive shipping back > then, it could only be even more expensive now. I'm in no position to > palletize something for shipping myself, and I wouldn't want to have > any responsibility for anything that went wrong during shipping, > especially if someone paid a large sum for the shipping, more than the > value of the item being shipped. > Couldn't have said it better myself. There are no more guarantees with freight shipping then there are sending something through FedEx or UPS; you're responsible for the packing job you do, and you have to assume that the truck driver is the most incompetent moron on the planet and will take 90 degree turns as fast as possible with your item not strapped down in the back of an empty truck. -Henry --===============1528944478593170656==-- From henry.r.bent@gmail.com Sat Jun 21 04:08:09 2025 From: Henry Bent To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 00:07:45 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3533069797797301629==" --===============3533069797797301629== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 at 23:59, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, Jun 20, 2025 at 5:29 PM Henry Bent via cctalk > wrote: > > I offered a working 11/23 with 1MB of RAM and a DEQNA, plus an MFM drive, > > on this board somewhat recently and had no takers because it was local > > pickup only in NE Ohio. > > I'm close, and did comment, but I already have more than one BA23, and > a DQ614 interface. I love PDP-11s but I recently got a (working) > pedestal MicroPDP-11/53 for under $300, and already have at least one > MicroPDP-11/23 and am not looking to buy another one. > Yes, and I did appreciate your response. That's the trouble; those of us who have been doing this for a long time probably have better hardware than the entry level systems, so we're looking to move on the stuff that we have to a new generation, but they either aren't interested or we aren't on the right forums (and don't know where the right forums are!). -Henry --===============3533069797797301629==-- From bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca Sat Jun 21 04:29:41 2025 From: ben To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 22:29:17 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6746404996241119231==" --===============6746404996241119231== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 2025-06-20 9:23 p.m., Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, Jun 20, 2025 at 6:54 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk > wrote: >> >> You mean like this one? :-) >> >> ULTRA RARE PDP-11 DIGITAL DEC 1970's PC05 PR11 HIGH SPEED Tape Reader ONLY >> $2.00 >> $580.00 shipping > > I have no direct knowledge of any kind about that seller. There have > been some opinions about that seller posted on the VCfed forum by > other people, for whatever those may or may not be worth. Shipping is FEDEX ground, almost overnight. :) Shipping at that price is still OK, providing packing was well done. I get the feeling this guy will just throw it in box. At one time you had 3 chapters in the computer XXX manual on how to unpack and install power for the computer, showing how important packing was at time. Ben. --===============6746404996241119231==-- From bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca Sat Jun 21 04:58:24 2025 From: ben To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 22:58:16 -0600 Message-ID: <9ae2b786-e58e-45f0-b39f-130e36138990@jetnet.ab.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6481733901981480567==" --===============6481733901981480567== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now that I have my 18 bit retro computer working, I am thinking of adding classic IO, like paper tape. Sadly I am a few decades too late. Is there anything out there to replace a punch/reader used as 70's i/o? Any good mag tape (cassete tape) replacements? I would love a tiny 9 track mag tape toy sized if they made one, like the wall hanging PDP8's. On wish list, a flex writer or TTY video display replacement, ie overstrike and underline in 2/3 size VT100 case. Ben. https://www.instructables.com/23-Scale-VT100-Terminal-Reproduction/ --===============6481733901981480567==-- From dave.g4ugm@gmail.com Sat Jun 21 10:43:59 2025 From: David Wade To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: 3 VCF's this weekend! Atlanta, Dallas, Australia Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 11:43:51 +0100 Message-ID: <235b9ef4-607f-4d53-84d1-aa8733c9a77b@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CMA4P292MB02525B60ECEE514AA69265FCA87CA=40MA4P292MB?= =?utf-8?q?0252=2EESPP292=2EPROD=2EOUTLOOK=2ECOM=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0731432813035856570==" --===============0731432813035856570== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 20/06/2025 23:34, jake utley via cctalk wrote: >> :=EF=BB=BFDo we ever have one in the UK ? >> I think the nearest thing I've seen recently is the retro festival at >> the Cambridge CCH museum. >> TNMoC of course has excellent fixed exhibits but I don't think it's >> had guests for a long while. > VCF UK 2026 has been announced it=E2=80=99s back on but details haven=E2=80= =99t been confirmed We have had DEC Legacy events :- https://groups.io/g/declegacy & https://robs-old-computers.com/2021/10/10/dec-legacy-2021-windermere-9th-10th= -october/ but Mark who organised them seems to have other things on at present. Dave --===============0731432813035856570==-- From dave.g4ugm@gmail.com Sat Jun 21 10:52:43 2025 From: David Wade To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: eBay strikes again!! Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 11:52:33 +0100 Message-ID: <9ad6a871-e066-4383-8f2d-963bd26c92ac@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <99145E6E-08B7-4561-AF87-96F0F5BB8A26@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1416246182028888179==" --===============1416246182028888179== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 20/06/2025 21:52, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > I'm always puzzled by "local only" offers. It's expected that shipping cos= ts get added, but why would a seller make a decision that shipping is "too ex= pensive"? Logically the buyer should decide that, and if the buyer will pay = the shipping, even if pricy, why not do the transaction? > > paul It doesn't quite work that way. Buyers (and E-Bay) expect you to have=20 all the packaging to hand and not to charge for the cost of obtaining it=20 or the time spent packing it. So they might pay but when leaving feedback they complain about the cost=20 of P&P and give you one star for it, which shows up in your feedback and=20 lowers your ratings. Really not worth the hassle, but there again for "local pickup only" you=20 might do better on Facebook Market Place (or one of the other forums)=20 just make sure you check any cash for forgeries before handing over any=20 goods.. >> On Jun 20, 2025, at 4:41=E2=80=AFPM, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote: >> >> I offered a working 11/23 with 1MB of RAM and a DEQNA, plus an MFM drive, >> on this board somewhat recently and had no takers because it was local >> pickup only in NE Ohio. The people who are interested in this stuff are >> really few and far between. Sadly, the cost of shipping it freight >> probably outweighs the money you would get back by parting it out on eBay. >> >> -Henry Dave G4UGM --===============1416246182028888179==-- From classiccmp@fjl.co.uk Sat Jun 21 11:02:26 2025 From: Frank Leonhardt To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 12:02:10 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <9ae2b786-e58e-45f0-b39f-130e36138990@jetnet.ab.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8775526797265293833==" --===============8775526797265293833== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I understand exactly where you're coming from. It's easy enough to make a sec= ondary storage emulator but unless it's electromechanical it's not the same, = is it? I still use SCSI tape drives day to day "because". Currently LTO, with= autochangers. A RAID would work out a lot cheaper per Mb, but has no charm. In your position, how about cassette, as you suggested? A Kansas City circuit= is easy enough to make. I use the schematics from Ohio Scientific computers = (e.g 600 board) as a reference circuit, largely because it's what I used in t= he 1970s. I also got myself a solenoid controlled tape deck and interfaced it to my com= puter for Random Access. Disk drives were extremely expensive. Whether this w= as entirely practical is another matter, but who cares? I got a Sharp deck wi= th APSS(?) which was a feature that would fast forward and rewind looking for= silence between tracks, and stop when it found some. With tape decks you really need four to do interesting things. These days tha= t's affordable. Paper tape? I have it but it's less practical - especially as you can't get s= upplies easily. I started on paper tape and upgraded to cassette. The system = software I had at the time assumed paper but the cassette dropped in as a har= dware compatible replacement. The only snag was that once started the CPU had= to process it at the speed it came, whereas the paper tape was starting/stop. Regards, Frank On 21 June 2025 05:58:16 BST, ben via cctalk wrote: >Now that I have my 18 bit retro computer working, I am thinking of adding cl= assic IO, like paper tape. Sadly I am a few decades too late. >Is there anything out there to replace a punch/reader used as 70's i/o? >Any good mag tape (cassete tape) replacements? I would love a tiny 9 track m= ag tape toy sized if they made one, like the wall hanging PDP8's. >On wish list, a flex writer or TTY video display replacement, ie overstrike = and underline in 2/3 size VT100 case. >Ben. >https://www.instructables.com/23-Scale-VT100-Terminal-Reproduction/ --===============8775526797265293833==-- From gavin@learn.bio Sat Jun 21 13:48:10 2025 From: Gavin Scott To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 08:47:45 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <9ae2b786-e58e-45f0-b39f-130e36138990@jetnet.ab.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7988659936009535497==" --===============7988659936009535497== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A paper-tape reader is easy enough, just something where you manually pull the tape past an optical reader etc. I have a ~cheap diode laser cutter and on my someday get around to it list is to write a paper tape "punch" program that will cut a one foot strip of punched paper tape out of a larger piece of paper, with the possibility of using a roll of paper and manually advance it a foot at a time using the sprocket holes and some pins for alignment. On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 12:04=E2=80=AFAM ben via cctalk wrote: > > Now that I have my 18 bit retro computer working, I am thinking of > adding classic IO, like paper tape. Sadly I am a few decades too late. > Is there anything out there to replace a punch/reader used as 70's i/o? > Any good mag tape (cassete tape) replacements? I would love a tiny 9 > track mag tape toy sized if they made one, like the wall hanging PDP8's. > On wish list, a flex writer or TTY video display replacement, ie > overstrike and underline in 2/3 size VT100 case. > Ben. > https://www.instructables.com/23-Scale-VT100-Terminal-Reproduction/ --===============7988659936009535497==-- From jonesthechip@logicmagic.co.uk Sat Jun 21 14:15:34 2025 From: Sid Jones To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 15:15:18 +0100 Message-ID: <6F31BA7F7B2B473B9E83182A80126FC3@LM010> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6856425556891663536==" --===============6856425556891663536== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI: I'm restoring an intellec 4 mod 40 from 1974. As I don't have a TTY or a high speed paper tape reader, I've made a 110 baud to serial TTL UART USB interface with handshake, and a very simple high speed paper tape reader simulator with an Arduino board. The 110/20 ma current loop interface needed some opto-isolators and a Atmel processor to do a 110 <-> 300 baud shift in both directions. (USB plug in serial ports don't appear to support 110 baud...) RealTerm then can be used as a TeleType(R) lookey-likey... Does need a bit of a front-end to respond to the 'tape advance' relay clicks... The paper tape reader currently loads a 'compiled in' HEX file, but will get expanded for a display and user interface to select 'paper tape' files from a SD card. This info can be shared... As a usable means of extracting info from paper tape the 'e-basteln' widget is quite handy... https://www.e-basteln.de/computing/papertape/ A useful source of paper tape punching is to find a big iron enthusiast with a set of 1960's kit. I've got a UK contact who's keeping an Elliott 903 going and he's made some 1" tapes from PC files. His box of tricks talks to a PC via the parallel port and a stack of TTL to 9 volt level shifters. Regards Sid -----Original Message----- From: Gavin Scott via cctalk Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2025 2:47 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: Gavin Scott Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader A paper-tape reader is easy enough, just something where you manually pull the tape past an optical reader etc. I have a ~cheap diode laser cutter and on my someday get around to it list is to write a paper tape "punch" program that will cut a one foot strip of punched paper tape out of a larger piece of paper, with the possibility of using a roll of paper and manually advance it a foot at a time using the sprocket holes and some pins for alignment. On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 12:04 AM ben via cctalk wrote: > > Now that I have my 18 bit retro computer working, I am thinking of > adding classic IO, like paper tape. Sadly I am a few decades too late. > Is there anything out there to replace a punch/reader used as 70's i/o? > Any good mag tape (cassete tape) replacements? I would love a tiny 9 > track mag tape toy sized if they made one, like the wall hanging PDP8's. > On wish list, a flex writer or TTY video display replacement, ie > overstrike and underline in 2/3 size VT100 case. > Ben. > https://www.instructables.com/23-Scale-VT100-Terminal-Reproduction/ --===============6856425556891663536==-- From anders.k.nelson@gmail.com Sat Jun 21 17:36:04 2025 From: Anders Nelson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 13:35:27 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6F31BA7F7B2B473B9E83182A80126FC3@LM010> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8806399239358699596==" --===============8806399239358699596== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IIRC the tape drives on the Colecovision ADAM were way over-spec'ed for that machine and thus quite high-speed. $200 working on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/177209174952 -- Anders Nelson www.andersknelson.com On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 10:24=E2=80=AFAM Sid Jones via cctalk wrote: > FYI: I'm restoring an intellec 4 mod 40 from 1974. > > As I don't have a TTY or a high speed paper tape reader, I've made a 110 > baud to serial TTL UART USB interface with handshake, and a very simple > high > speed paper tape reader simulator with an Arduino board. > > The 110/20 ma current loop interface needed some opto-isolators and a > Atmel > processor to do a 110 <-> 300 baud shift in both directions. (USB plug in > serial ports don't appear to support 110 baud...) > > RealTerm then can be used as a TeleType(R) lookey-likey... Does need a bit > of a front-end to respond to the 'tape advance' relay clicks... > > The paper tape reader currently loads a 'compiled in' HEX file, but will > get > expanded for a display and user interface to select 'paper tape' files > from > a SD card. > > This info can be shared... > > As a usable means of extracting info from paper tape the 'e-basteln' > widget > is quite handy... > > https://www.e-basteln.de/computing/papertape/ > > A useful source of paper tape punching is to find a big iron enthusiast > with > a set of 1960's kit. I've got a UK contact who's keeping an Elliott 903 > going and he's made some 1" tapes from PC files. > > His box of tricks talks to a PC via the parallel port and a stack of TTL > to > 9 volt level shifters. > > Regards > > Sid > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gavin Scott via cctalk > Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2025 2:47 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Cc: Gavin Scott > Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape > punch/reader > > A paper-tape reader is easy enough, just something where you manually > pull the tape past an optical reader etc. > > I have a ~cheap diode laser cutter and on my someday get around to it > list is to write a paper tape "punch" program that will cut a one foot > strip of punched paper tape out of a larger piece of paper, with the > possibility of using a roll of paper and manually advance it a foot at > a time using the sprocket holes and some pins for alignment. > > On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 12:04 AM ben via cctalk > wrote: > > > > Now that I have my 18 bit retro computer working, I am thinking of > > adding classic IO, like paper tape. Sadly I am a few decades too late. > > Is there anything out there to replace a punch/reader used as 70's i/o? > > Any good mag tape (cassete tape) replacements? I would love a tiny 9 > > track mag tape toy sized if they made one, like the wall hanging PDP8's. > > On wish list, a flex writer or TTY video display replacement, ie > > overstrike and underline in 2/3 size VT100 case. > > Ben. > > https://www.instructables.com/23-Scale-VT100-Terminal-Reproduction/ > > --===============8806399239358699596==-- From anders.k.nelson@gmail.com Sat Jun 21 17:41:40 2025 From: Anders Nelson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 13:41:05 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0991442210231421040==" --===============0991442210231421040== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Oh right you wanted paper tape specifically. I sketched up a design a few years ago for a punch with horizontal plates that slide in and out between the punch pins and a common, cam-driven armature. I'm an EE not ME so it never went past a sketch, but surely you could make one with a single motor to both punch and advance the tape. -- Anders Nelson www.andersknelson.com On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 1:35 PM Anders Nelson wrote: > IIRC the tape drives on the Colecovision ADAM were way over-spec'ed for > that machine and thus quite high-speed. > > $200 working on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/177209174952 > > -- > Anders Nelson > www.andersknelson.com > > > On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 10:24 AM Sid Jones via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> FYI: I'm restoring an intellec 4 mod 40 from 1974. >> >> As I don't have a TTY or a high speed paper tape reader, I've made a 110 >> baud to serial TTL UART USB interface with handshake, and a very simple >> high >> speed paper tape reader simulator with an Arduino board. >> >> The 110/20 ma current loop interface needed some opto-isolators and a >> Atmel >> processor to do a 110 <-> 300 baud shift in both directions. (USB plug in >> serial ports don't appear to support 110 baud...) >> >> RealTerm then can be used as a TeleType(R) lookey-likey... Does need a >> bit >> of a front-end to respond to the 'tape advance' relay clicks... >> >> The paper tape reader currently loads a 'compiled in' HEX file, but will >> get >> expanded for a display and user interface to select 'paper tape' files >> from >> a SD card. >> >> This info can be shared... >> >> As a usable means of extracting info from paper tape the 'e-basteln' >> widget >> is quite handy... >> >> https://www.e-basteln.de/computing/papertape/ >> >> A useful source of paper tape punching is to find a big iron enthusiast >> with >> a set of 1960's kit. I've got a UK contact who's keeping an Elliott 903 >> going and he's made some 1" tapes from PC files. >> >> His box of tricks talks to a PC via the parallel port and a stack of TTL >> to >> 9 volt level shifters. >> >> Regards >> >> Sid >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Gavin Scott via cctalk >> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2025 2:47 PM >> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >> Cc: Gavin Scott >> Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape >> punch/reader >> >> A paper-tape reader is easy enough, just something where you manually >> pull the tape past an optical reader etc. >> >> I have a ~cheap diode laser cutter and on my someday get around to it >> list is to write a paper tape "punch" program that will cut a one foot >> strip of punched paper tape out of a larger piece of paper, with the >> possibility of using a roll of paper and manually advance it a foot at >> a time using the sprocket holes and some pins for alignment. >> >> On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 12:04 AM ben via cctalk >> wrote: >> > >> > Now that I have my 18 bit retro computer working, I am thinking of >> > adding classic IO, like paper tape. Sadly I am a few decades too late. >> > Is there anything out there to replace a punch/reader used as 70's i/o? >> > Any good mag tape (cassete tape) replacements? I would love a tiny 9 >> > track mag tape toy sized if they made one, like the wall hanging PDP8's. >> > On wish list, a flex writer or TTY video display replacement, ie >> > overstrike and underline in 2/3 size VT100 case. >> > Ben. >> > https://www.instructables.com/23-Scale-VT100-Terminal-Reproduction/ >> >> --===============0991442210231421040==-- From ard.p850ug1@gmail.com Sat Jun 21 18:00:01 2025 From: Tony Duell To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 18:59:40 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2883721066638600023==" --===============2883721066638600023== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 6:49 PM Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote: > > Oh right you wanted paper tape specifically. > > I sketched up a design a few years ago for a punch with horizontal plates > that slide in and out between the punch pins and a common, cam-driven > armature. I'm an EE not ME so it never went past a sketch, but surely you > could make one with a single motor to both punch and advance the tape. That sounds rather similar to a Teletype BRPE or rather smaller/slower) a GNT model 34. Both of which have one motor to drive the punch crankshaft and operate a ratchet to advance the tape. There are many others that use the same idea but I'd have to dig out service manuals to check. The Facit 4070 might be easier to reproduce -- a (rotary) solenoid to operate each punch pin and a stepper motor to move the tape. The main problem with making a paper tape punch is the actual punch/die assembly. They have to fit very accurately to give clean punching and be the right diameter to make holes of the right size. Oh, and you need to harden them properly. -tony --===============2883721066638600023==-- From wayne.sudol@hotmail.com Sat Jun 21 19:19:16 2025 From: Wayne S To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 19:18:50 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4897169199862413419==" --===============4897169199862413419== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Actual oiled paper tape that meets specs is difficult to make. You need a thick stock and the tape is impregnated with oil to lubricate the = punch mechanism. The actual specs for it is available on Bitsavers. That said, old, unused paper tape seems to becoming more available on ebay as= people discover it in garage sales and put it up for resale. If you are goin= g to punch and reuse the tape a few times, then mylar tape is usable, but it = will dull your punch bits.=20 Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 21, 2025, at 11:09, Tony Duell via cctalk = wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 6:49=E2=80=AFPM Anders Nelson via cctalk > wrote: >>=20 >> Oh right you wanted paper tape specifically. >>=20 >> I sketched up a design a few years ago for a punch with horizontal plates >> that slide in and out between the punch pins and a common, cam-driven >> armature. I'm an EE not ME so it never went past a sketch, but surely you >> could make one with a single motor to both punch and advance the tape. >=20 > That sounds rather similar to a Teletype BRPE or rather > smaller/slower) a GNT model 34. Both of which have one motor to drive > the punch crankshaft and operate a ratchet to advance the tape. There > are many others that use the same idea but I'd have to dig out service > manuals to check. >=20 > The Facit 4070 might be easier to reproduce -- a (rotary) solenoid to > operate each punch pin and a stepper motor to move the tape. >=20 > The main problem with making a paper tape punch is the actual > punch/die assembly. They have to fit very accurately to give clean > punching and be the right diameter to make holes of the right size. > Oh, and you need to harden them properly. >=20 > -tony --===============4897169199862413419==-- From bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca Sat Jun 21 20:14:08 2025 From: ben To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 14:13:59 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CCO1PR08MB7208D290AD15500CCA755257E47FA=40CO1PR08MB?= =?utf-8?q?7208=2Enamprd08=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3477957209096471876==" --===============3477957209096471876== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2025-06-21 1:18 p.m., Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > Actual oiled paper tape that meets specs is difficult to make. > You need a thick stock and the tape is impregnated with oil to lubricate th= e punch mechanism. > The actual specs for it is available on Bitsavers. >=20 > That said, old, unused paper tape seems to becoming more available on ebay = as people discover it in garage sales and put it up for resale. If you are go= ing to punch and reuse the tape a few times, then mylar tape is usable, but i= t will dull your punch bits. >=20 Lack of paper tape is was why I was asking about a replacement. The same goes for TTY replacement. --===============3477957209096471876==-- From wayne.sudol@hotmail.com Sat Jun 21 21:40:39 2025 From: Wayne S To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 21:40:29 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3120279188033746767==" --===============3120279188033746767== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yep. I used paper tape a lot in college and a bit at work to reload programs = into typesetters after maintenance or a power off. IMHO, using paper tape is a PITA. Only use it if there is nothing else. =F0=9F=98=9E Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 21, 2025, at 13:19, ben via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn 2025-06-21 1:18 p.m., Wayne S via cctalk wrote: >> Actual oiled paper tape that meets specs is difficult to make. >> You need a thick stock and the tape is impregnated with oil to lubricate t= he punch mechanism. >> The actual specs for it is available on Bitsavers. >> That said, old, unused paper tape seems to becoming more available on ebay= as people discover it in garage sales and put it up for resale. If you are g= oing to punch and reuse the tape a few times, then mylar tape is usable, but = it will dull your punch bits. > Lack of paper tape is was why I was asking about a replacement. > The same goes for TTY replacement. --===============3120279188033746767==-- From smbaker@gmail.com Sun Jun 22 00:20:00 2025 From: Scott Baker To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 17:19:41 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CCO1PR08MB720841A828525B213ED28F43E47FA=40CO1PR08MB?= =?utf-8?q?7208=2Enamprd08=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8367339207731501282==" --===============8367339207731501282== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You can also look toward the industrial space. For one of my projects I used a Fanuc PPR, which is generally used in CNC machines and similar. It has both a punch and a reader and uses a serial interface. Easy to work with and very modular in its design. The disadvantage being that it looks more like something out of a vintage industrial setting than a vintage computer setting. I briefly considered building my own. A reader would be easy, but I never wrapped my brain around how I would make a reliable and durable punch. Finding tape can be difficult. There was (or maybe still is) someone on eBay selling mylar. You have to be careful of some of the paper, as there are sizes that are not 1 inch. If a truly modern replacement was fine, there are things like casduino / ardutape / tzxduino. These are devices that pretend to be an audio tape, based on an arduino. Emulating at a digital level would be even easier as many paper tape interfaces were just RS-232 or parallel. Any arduino or raspberry pi could handle that job. It just wouldn't look very vintage when you were done. Scott On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 3:29 PM Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > Yep. I used paper tape a lot in college and a bit at work to reload > programs into typesetters after maintenance or a power off. > IMHO, using paper tape is a PITA. > Only use it if there is nothing else. 😞 > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jun 21, 2025, at 13:19, ben via cctalk wrote: > > > > On 2025-06-21 1:18 p.m., Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > >> Actual oiled paper tape that meets specs is difficult to make. > >> You need a thick stock and the tape is impregnated with oil to > lubricate the punch mechanism. > >> The actual specs for it is available on Bitsavers. > >> That said, old, unused paper tape seems to becoming more available on > ebay as people discover it in garage sales and put it up for resale. If you > are going to punch and reuse the tape a few times, then mylar tape is > usable, but it will dull your punch bits. > > Lack of paper tape is was why I was asking about a replacement. > > The same goes for TTY replacement. > --===============8367339207731501282==-- From bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jun 22 01:09:00 2025 From: ben To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 19:08:52 -0600 Message-ID: <4d7c4d2f-c662-482c-8008-25b2a9c07ad1@jetnet.ab.ca> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5980192774907717165==" --===============5980192774907717165== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 2025-06-21 6:19 p.m., Scott Baker via cctalk wrote: > If a truly modern replacement was fine, there are things like casduino / > ardutape / tzxduino. These are devices that pretend to be an audio tape, > based on an arduino. Emulating at a digital level would be even easier as > many paper tape interfaces were just RS-232 or parallel. Any arduino or > raspberry pi could handle that job. It just wouldn't look very vintage when > you were done. Tape IO is possible rather than paper tape, but I have no idea about what works best for tape hardware. > Scott > I am thinking also about the modern PDP-8 replicas. With out the TTY the basic PDP-8 is rather crippled, and tethering it to PC for I/O does not make a standalone computer. I have outgrown 12 bits, and slowly moving on to 18 bits, so I have not really looked at the replicas in detail. Ben. --===============5980192774907717165==-- From bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jun 22 01:11:12 2025 From: ben To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 19:10:47 -0600 Message-ID: <933e3204-b1fd-4173-ac12-f10e98d05ebc@jetnet.ab.ca> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6615119310760980584==" --===============6615119310760980584== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 2025-06-21 11:35 a.m., Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote: > IIRC the tape drives on the Colecovision ADAM were way over-spec'ed for > that machine and thus quite high-speed. > > $200 working on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/177209174952 That would be a option if I had schematic . > -- > Anders Nelson > www.andersknelson.com --===============6615119310760980584==-- From smbaker@gmail.com Sun Jun 22 01:55:20 2025 From: Scott Baker To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 18:54:57 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <933e3204-b1fd-4173-ac12-f10e98d05ebc@jetnet.ab.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4375403524460189068==" --===============4375403524460189068== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For me, back in the day on my Coco, it would have been a CCR like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/336028139332 There's really no magic, it's an audio cassette recorder with an extra input to start/stop the motor. You may find tapes to be a little unreliable these days -- the cassettes themselves can break down, belts inside the player can break, and there was about a decade where rollers were used that have now turned into tar-like goo. If you want to know how to interface an audio tape, then you can look at some other vintage computer projects and adapt them: * Craig's SBC-85 tape board: https://bitsofthegoldenage.org/documentation/sbc-85-cassette-tape-interface-d= ocumentation/ (this one makes use of the SI/SO on the 8085, so maybe not so easily generalized to other CPUs, unless you add your own UART) * Norberto's H8 serial/cassette board: https://koyado.com/heathkit/New-H8-Website/h8-z5-4-serial-console-cassette-io= .html (this one comes with a UART) You can also find schematics for computers that used a tape, such as the TRS-80 Coco. There's lots of old 8-bit computers that used tapes. Even the original IBM PC had a tape interface built in (though it was rarely used). You will have a bit of work, in both software and hardware, to adapt one of these existing designs. For a terminal, I typically use some variation of this: https://maccasoft.com/en/electronics/vga-serial-terminal/ Scott On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 6:19=E2=80=AFPM ben via cctalk wrote: > On 2025-06-21 11:35 a.m., Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote: > > IIRC the tape drives on the Colecovision ADAM were way over-spec'ed for > > that machine and thus quite high-speed. > > > > $200 working on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/177209174952 > > That would be a option if I had schematic > > . > > -- > > Anders Nelson > > www.andersknelson.com > --===============4375403524460189068==-- From bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jun 22 02:17:16 2025 From: ben To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 20:17:02 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4751308832173746955==" --===============4751308832173746955== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 2025-06-21 7:54 p.m., Scott Baker wrote: > You can also find schematics for computers that used a tape, such as the > TRS-80 Coco. There's lots of old 8-bit computers that used tapes. Even > the original IBM PC had a tape interface built in (though it was rarely > used). > I had a COCO and tape. It never realy worked well. > You will have a bit of work, in both software and hardware, to adapt one > of these existing designs. > > For a terminal, I typically use some variation of this: https:// > maccasoft.com/en/electronics/vga-serial-terminal/ maccasoft.com/en/electronics/vga-serial-terminal/> > I have big terminal already, but vintage IO is planned soon. > Scott Ben. --===============4751308832173746955==-- From steven@malikoff.com Sun Jun 22 03:58:29 2025 From: "steven@malikoff.com steven@malikoff.com" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 13:53:04 +1000 Message-ID: <700306697.446440.1750564384009@webmail-oxcs.register.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4059308856566684271==" --===============4059308856566684271== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On 06/21/2025 11:47 PM AEST Gavin Scott via cctalk wrote: > A paper-tape reader is easy enough, just something where you manually > pull the tape past an optical reader etc. >=20 > I have a ~cheap diode laser cutter and on my someday get around to it > list is to write a paper tape "punch" program that will cut a one foot > strip of punched paper tape out of a larger piece of paper, with the > possibility of using a roll of paper and manually advance it a foot at > a time using the sprocket holes and some pins for alignment. I wrote a tool to make 5-level Baudot, 8-level ASCII, Whirlwind, chadless etc= . paper tape using a home CNC vinyl/stencil cutter https://github.com/1944GPW/ptap2dxf I saw another similar utility on Hackaday that uses a laser, but it did not h= ave as many format options. https://hackaday.com/2025/01/29/paper-tape-with-lasers/ Steve. --===============4059308856566684271==-- From carey.schug@gmail.com Sun Jun 22 05:04:33 2025 From: Carey Schug To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 00:06:06 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7044151531712641404==" --===============7044151531712641404== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit as delivered, the cassette interface on the trs-80 model 1 did not work well, but there were software and hardware fixes that helped a lot. On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 11:44 PM ben via cctalk wrote: > On 2025-06-21 7:54 p.m., Scott Baker wrote: > > > > You can also find schematics for computers that used a tape, such as the > > TRS-80 Coco. There's lots of old 8-bit computers that used tapes. Even > > the original IBM PC had a tape interface built in (though it was rarely > > used). > > > I had a COCO and tape. It never realy worked well. > > > You will have a bit of work, in both software and hardware, to adapt one > > of these existing designs. > > > > For a terminal, I typically use some variation of this: https:// > > maccasoft.com/en/electronics/vga-serial-terminal/ > maccasoft.com/en/electronics/vga-serial-terminal/> > > > I have big terminal already, but vintage IO is planned soon. > > > > > Scott > Ben. > > -- --Carey --===============7044151531712641404==-- From frank@fjl.co.uk Sun Jun 22 08:20:16 2025 From: Frank Leonhardt To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 21:35:50 +0100 Message-ID: <04a16ff0-4083-4822-90b8-cc1cfc30f821@fjl.co.uk> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0721081911685347323==" --===============0721081911685347323== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 21/06/2025 21:13, ben via cctalk wrote: > On 2025-06-21 1:18 p.m., Wayne S via cctalk wrote: >> Actual oiled  paper tape that meets specs is difficult to make. >> You need a thick stock and the tape is impregnated with oil to >> lubricate the punch mechanism. >> The actual specs for it is available on Bitsavers. >> >> That said, old, unused paper tape seems to becoming more available on >> ebay as people discover it in garage sales and put it up for resale. >> If you are going to punch and reuse the tape a few times, then mylar >> tape is usable, but it will dull your punch bits. >> > Lack of paper tape is was why I was asking about a replacement. > The same goes for TTY replacement. Which is why I suggested cassette tape as the closest practical contemporary equivalent :-) --===============0721081911685347323==-- From ard.p850ug1@gmail.com Sun Jun 22 09:26:27 2025 From: Tony Duell To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 10:26:08 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <04a16ff0-4083-4822-90b8-cc1cfc30f821@fjl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4667954687214928302==" --===============4667954687214928302== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Sun, Jun 22, 2025 at 9:44 AM Frank Leonhardt via cctalk wrote: > > > Lack of paper tape is was why I was asking about a replacement. > > The same goes for TTY replacement. > > Which is why I suggested cassette tape as the closest practical > contemporary equivalent :-) There was a version of the Silent 700 terminal which had a unit on top containing 2 digital cassette drives [1]. These 'replaced' the paper tape punch and reader of other ASR terminals, I think you could save data from either the line or keyboard onto a caseette (equivelent of punching paper tape), copy from one to the other editing as you go and send the data from cassette to the line or printer (equvalent of reading a paper tape). [1] Same dimensions as a normal audio Compact Cassette but with a different grade of tape (higher coercivity?). You can identify the cassettes by the slightly off-centre notch in the rear edge. -tony --===============4667954687214928302==-- From classiccmp@fjl.co.uk Sun Jun 22 11:04:44 2025 From: Frank Leonhardt To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 12:04:35 +0100 Message-ID: <8e5c1b87-9d43-47c2-b377-2a0160871480@fjl.co.uk> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4622252886579396826==" --===============4622252886579396826== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 22/06/2025 10:26, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: > On Sun, Jun 22, 2025 at 9:44 AM Frank Leonhardt via cctalk > wrote: >>> Lack of paper tape is was why I was asking about a replacement. >>> The same goes for TTY replacement. >> Which is why I suggested cassette tape as the closest practical >> contemporary equivalent :-) > There was a version of the Silent 700 terminal which had a unit on top > containing 2 digital cassette drives [1]. These 'replaced' the paper > tape punch and reader of other ASR terminals, I think you could save > data from either the line or keyboard onto a caseette (equivelent of > punching paper tape), copy from one to the other editing as you go and > send the data from cassette to the line or printer (equvalent of > reading a paper tape). > > [1] Same dimensions as a normal audio Compact Cassette but with a > different grade of tape (higher coercivity?). You can identify the > cassettes by the slightly off-centre notch in the rear edge. I never saw one of those, but that's the sort of thing I was as talking about. The BIOS on a lot of the 8-bit micro boards I used was agnostic as to whether it was a cassette tape interface or serial reader/punch. The only snag was that the cassette couldn't start and stop on a per-character basis so you couldn't realistically make a tape by keying as you could with paper, and you had to insert nulls on the end of a CR to allow time for processing a line that had just been input. Microsoft BASIC had a NULL command to set the number of nulls required. So how, if it could, did this Silent 700 make a keyed tape? But the real beauty of a Kansas City tape interface is you can build it yourself and use any old tape recorder. I just checked and they're £32 new on Amazon, and the cassettes are still being made. The cheapest way to get that authentic 1970's feeling. The schematics are available here: https://osiweb.org/manuals/600revB.pdf Sheet 7.  It doesn't label the chips, but they are U62 7404 (inverters), U63 7474 (D-type Flip Flops), U64 7476 (JK Flop Flops), U66 CA3130 (op amp). Plus something to generate the clock and some resistors and capacitors. All still easily available. --===============4622252886579396826==-- From mhs.stein@gmail.com Sun Jun 22 12:57:26 2025 From: Mike Stein To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 08:57:01 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <933e3204-b1fd-4173-ac12-f10e98d05ebc@jetnet.ab.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4491716286709810621==" --===============4491716286709810621== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Pshaw! Reverse engineering obsolete hardware is what this hobby's all about and half the fun! ;-) On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 9:19 PM ben via cctalk wrote: > On 2025-06-21 11:35 a.m., Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote: > > IIRC the tape drives on the Colecovision ADAM were way over-spec'ed for > > that machine and thus quite high-speed. > > > > $200 working on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/177209174952 > > That would be a option if I had schematic > > . > > -- > > Anders Nelson > > www.andersknelson.com > --===============4491716286709810621==-- From mhs.stein@gmail.com Sun Jun 22 13:00:23 2025 From: Mike Stein To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 08:59:46 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7952331007194478639==" --===============7952331007194478639== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Pretty easy to make PPT yourself; Google 'DIY Paper Tape'. On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 6:39 PM ben via cctalk wrote: > On 2025-06-21 1:18 p.m., Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > > Actual oiled paper tape that meets specs is difficult to make. > > You need a thick stock and the tape is impregnated with oil to lubricate > the punch mechanism. > > The actual specs for it is available on Bitsavers. > > > > That said, old, unused paper tape seems to becoming more available on > ebay as people discover it in garage sales and put it up for resale. If you > are going to punch and reuse the tape a few times, then mylar tape is > usable, but it will dull your punch bits. > > > Lack of paper tape is was why I was asking about a replacement. > The same goes for TTY replacement. > --===============7952331007194478639==-- From jfoust@threedee.com Sun Jun 22 14:53:41 2025 From: John Foust To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: VCF West August 1-2, 2025 - Mountain View, California Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 09:12:18 -0500 Message-ID: <20250622145337.1D43F877F3@classiccmp.org> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0658745245314449977==" --===============0658745245314449977== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 09:18 PM 3/11/2025, Jeffrey Brace via cctalk wrote: >VCF West is back on August 1 & 2, 2025 at the Computer History Museum in >Mountain View, California. > >We're partnering with the Sacramento Amiga Computer Club and AmiWest to >celebrate the 40th anniversary of the Amiga and other special guests. I'm considering attending this Amiga 40th anniversary celebration. I was invited to speak on a panel on the topic of the experience of early Amiga code development. Who else might attend? - John --===============0658745245314449977==-- From anders.k.nelson@gmail.com Sun Jun 22 21:00:48 2025 From: Anders Nelson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 17:00:15 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <700306697.446440.1750564384009@webmail-oxcs.register.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8915772318177201059==" --===============8915772318177201059== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I would love to see someone create a galvo-laser system for punching paper/mylar tape. On Aliexpress you can get a galvo set for (all prices USD) ~$30, a 10W laser head for $40, and I expect making a stepper-motor driven capstan wouldn't be too hard for someone with the time. Then add a low-speed fan attached to a 3D printed tape guide with a slit for chad suction/collection and fume exhaust. Not sure what kind of anvil/platform you need for a laser beam - maybe just the uncoated side of a ceramic floor tile sitting at an angle in the chad chute to absorb the laser energy, with the platform having a void sized for the punching area. I imagine the whole thing could be pretty compact and wicked fast! -- Anders Nelson www.andersknelson.com On Sun, Jun 22, 2025 at 9:24 AM steven(a)malikoff.com steven--- via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > On 06/21/2025 11:47 PM AEST Gavin Scott via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > A paper-tape reader is easy enough, just something where you manually > > pull the tape past an optical reader etc. > > > > I have a ~cheap diode laser cutter and on my someday get around to it > > list is to write a paper tape "punch" program that will cut a one foot > > strip of punched paper tape out of a larger piece of paper, with the > > possibility of using a roll of paper and manually advance it a foot at > > a time using the sprocket holes and some pins for alignment. > > I wrote a tool to make 5-level Baudot, 8-level ASCII, Whirlwind, chadless > etc. paper tape using a home CNC vinyl/stencil cutter > https://github.com/1944GPW/ptap2dxf > > I saw another similar utility on Hackaday that uses a laser, but it did > not have as many format options. > https://hackaday.com/2025/01/29/paper-tape-with-lasers/ > > Steve. > --===============8915772318177201059==-- From wayne.sudol@hotmail.com Sun Jun 22 21:16:14 2025 From: Wayne S To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 21:16:03 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4201952144385352688==" --===============4201952144385352688== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Laser would catch the mylar on fire or melt it at least, i=E2=80=99m thinking= .=20 Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 22, 2025, at 14:09, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFI would love to see someone create a galvo-laser system for punchi= ng > paper/mylar tape. On Aliexpress you can get a galvo set for (all prices > USD) ~$30, a 10W laser head for $40, and I expect making a stepper-motor > driven capstan wouldn't be too hard for someone with the time. Then add a > low-speed fan attached to a 3D printed tape guide with a slit for chad > suction/collection and fume exhaust. Not sure what kind of anvil/platform > you need for a laser beam - maybe just the uncoated side of a ceramic floor > tile sitting at an angle in the chad chute to absorb the laser energy, with > the platform having a void sized for the punching area. >=20 > I imagine the whole thing could be pretty compact and wicked fast! >=20 > -- > Anders Nelson > www.andersknelson.com >=20 >=20 > On Sun, Jun 22, 2025 at 9:24=E2=80=AFAM steven(a)malikoff.com steven--- via= cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >=20 >>> On 06/21/2025 11:47 PM AEST Gavin Scott via cctalk < >> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >>> A paper-tape reader is easy enough, just something where you manually >>> pull the tape past an optical reader etc. >>>=20 >>> I have a ~cheap diode laser cutter and on my someday get around to it >>> list is to write a paper tape "punch" program that will cut a one foot >>> strip of punched paper tape out of a larger piece of paper, with the >>> possibility of using a roll of paper and manually advance it a foot at >>> a time using the sprocket holes and some pins for alignment. >>=20 >> I wrote a tool to make 5-level Baudot, 8-level ASCII, Whirlwind, chadless >> etc. paper tape using a home CNC vinyl/stencil cutter >> https://github.com/1944GPW/ptap2dxf >>=20 >> I saw another similar utility on Hackaday that uses a laser, but it did >> not have as many format options. >> https://hackaday.com/2025/01/29/paper-tape-with-lasers/ >>=20 >> Steve. >>=20 --===============4201952144385352688==-- From wayne.sudol@hotmail.com Sun Jun 22 21:48:51 2025 From: Wayne S To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 21:48:39 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CCO1PR08MB72081D1573078CB39CA050CDE47EA=40CO1PR08MB?= =?utf-8?q?7208=2Enamprd08=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3509904182799760772==" --===============3509904182799760772== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think you could get around any potential damage by running the tape between= 2 thin flat pieces of metal that had holes drilled vertically that lined up = with the laser. Would have to determine what power laser was needed, if you = needed more than one laser to get speed =E2=80=94 maybe one for each hole. A= lso would have to have a way to toggle the laser on and off. Would have to ge= t a laser that could be toggled, most are made to be run continuously. Even p= ulsed are almost continuous. Maybe figure out a way to block the light inste= ad of turning it off. The logic would be easier with a toggle. You made me think about this a lor=F0=9F=98=80 Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 22, 2025, at 14:16, Wayne S wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFLaser would catch the mylar on fire or melt it at least, i=E2=80= =99m thinking. >=20 >=20 > Sent from my iPhone >=20 >> On Jun 22, 2025, at 14:09, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote: >>=20 >> =EF=BB=BFI would love to see someone create a galvo-laser system for punch= ing >> paper/mylar tape. On Aliexpress you can get a galvo set for (all prices >> USD) ~$30, a 10W laser head for $40, and I expect making a stepper-motor >> driven capstan wouldn't be too hard for someone with the time. Then add a >> low-speed fan attached to a 3D printed tape guide with a slit for chad >> suction/collection and fume exhaust. Not sure what kind of anvil/platform >> you need for a laser beam - maybe just the uncoated side of a ceramic floor >> tile sitting at an angle in the chad chute to absorb the laser energy, with >> the platform having a void sized for the punching area. >>=20 >> I imagine the whole thing could be pretty compact and wicked fast! >>=20 >> -- >> Anders Nelson >> www.andersknelson.com >>=20 >>=20 >> On Sun, Jun 22, 2025 at 9:24=E2=80=AFAM steven(a)malikoff.com steven--- vi= a cctalk < >> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >>=20 >>>> On 06/21/2025 11:47 PM AEST Gavin Scott via cctalk < >>> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >>>> A paper-tape reader is easy enough, just something where you manually >>>> pull the tape past an optical reader etc. >>>>=20 >>>> I have a ~cheap diode laser cutter and on my someday get around to it >>>> list is to write a paper tape "punch" program that will cut a one foot >>>> strip of punched paper tape out of a larger piece of paper, with the >>>> possibility of using a roll of paper and manually advance it a foot at >>>> a time using the sprocket holes and some pins for alignment. >>>=20 >>> I wrote a tool to make 5-level Baudot, 8-level ASCII, Whirlwind, chadless >>> etc. paper tape using a home CNC vinyl/stencil cutter >>> https://github.com/1944GPW/ptap2dxf >>>=20 >>> I saw another similar utility on Hackaday that uses a laser, but it did >>> not have as many format options. >>> https://hackaday.com/2025/01/29/paper-tape-with-lasers/ >>>=20 >>> Steve. >>>=20 --===============3509904182799760772==-- From wayne.sudol@hotmail.com Sun Jun 22 22:21:37 2025 From: Wayne S To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 22:21:28 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CCO1PR08MB7208C5D11FA9A30E75146676E47EA=40CO1PR08MB?= =?utf-8?q?7208=2Enamprd08=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8007196325488332861==" --===============8007196325488332861== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable P.S. I have some experience imaging on Computer to Plate machines using laser= s. It=E2=80=99s more difficult than it sounds. Lasers create a lot of issues. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 22, 2025, at 14:48, Wayne S wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFI think you could get around any potential damage by running the t= ape between 2 thin flat pieces of metal that had holes drilled vertically tha= t lined up with the laser. Would have to determine what power laser was need= ed, if you needed more than one laser to get speed =E2=80=94 maybe one for ea= ch hole. Also would have to have a way to toggle the laser on and off. Would= have to get a laser that could be toggled, most are made to be run continuou= sly. Even pulsed are almost continuous. Maybe figure out a way to block the = light instead of turning it off. The logic would be easier with a toggle. >=20 > You made me think about this a lor=F0=9F=98=80 >=20 > Sent from my iPhone >=20 >> On Jun 22, 2025, at 14:16, Wayne S wrote: >>=20 >> =EF=BB=BFLaser would catch the mylar on fire or melt it at least, i=E2=80= =99m thinking. >>=20 >>=20 >> Sent from my iPhone >>=20 >>>> On Jun 22, 2025, at 14:09, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote: >>>=20 >>> =EF=BB=BFI would love to see someone create a galvo-laser system for punc= hing >>> paper/mylar tape. On Aliexpress you can get a galvo set for (all prices >>> USD) ~$30, a 10W laser head for $40, and I expect making a stepper-motor >>> driven capstan wouldn't be too hard for someone with the time. Then add a >>> low-speed fan attached to a 3D printed tape guide with a slit for chad >>> suction/collection and fume exhaust. Not sure what kind of anvil/platform >>> you need for a laser beam - maybe just the uncoated side of a ceramic flo= or >>> tile sitting at an angle in the chad chute to absorb the laser energy, wi= th >>> the platform having a void sized for the punching area. >>>=20 >>> I imagine the whole thing could be pretty compact and wicked fast! >>>=20 >>> -- >>> Anders Nelson >>> www.andersknelson.com >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Sun, Jun 22, 2025 at 9:24=E2=80=AFAM steven(a)malikoff.com steven--- v= ia cctalk < >>> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >>>=20 >>>>> On 06/21/2025 11:47 PM AEST Gavin Scott via cctalk < >>>> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >>>>> A paper-tape reader is easy enough, just something where you manually >>>>> pull the tape past an optical reader etc. >>>>>=20 >>>>> I have a ~cheap diode laser cutter and on my someday get around to it >>>>> list is to write a paper tape "punch" program that will cut a one foot >>>>> strip of punched paper tape out of a larger piece of paper, with the >>>>> possibility of using a roll of paper and manually advance it a foot at >>>>> a time using the sprocket holes and some pins for alignment. >>>>=20 >>>> I wrote a tool to make 5-level Baudot, 8-level ASCII, Whirlwind, chadless >>>> etc. paper tape using a home CNC vinyl/stencil cutter >>>> https://github.com/1944GPW/ptap2dxf >>>>=20 >>>> I saw another similar utility on Hackaday that uses a laser, but it did >>>> not have as many format options. >>>> https://hackaday.com/2025/01/29/paper-tape-with-lasers/ >>>>=20 >>>> Steve. >>>>=20 --===============8007196325488332861==-- From cisin@xenosoft.com Sun Jun 22 22:34:02 2025 From: Fred Cisin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:33:54 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CCO1PR08MB7208C5D11FA9A30E75146676E47EA=40CO1PR08MB?= =?utf-8?q?7208=2Enamprd08=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9022667339625890409==" --===============9022667339625890409== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If toggling the laser isn't doable, then you could use a shutter. If the=20 shutter can't handle the heat, then a mirror that deflects the beam. On Sun, 22 Jun 2025, Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > I think you could get around any potential damage by running the tape betwe= en 2 thin flat pieces of metal that had holes drilled vertically that lined u= p with the laser. Would have to determine what power laser was needed, if yo= u needed more than one laser to get speed =E2=80=94 maybe one for each hole. = Also would have to have a way to toggle the laser on and off. Would have to = get a laser that could be toggled, most are made to be run continuously. Even= pulsed are almost continuous. Maybe figure out a way to block the light ins= tead of turning it off. The logic would be easier with a toggle. > > You made me think about this a lor=F0=9F=98=80 > > Sent from my iPhon> >> On Jun 22, 2025, at 14:16, Wayne S wrote: >> >> =EF=BB=BFLaser would catch the mylar on fire or melt it at least, i=E2=80= =99m thinking. >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jun 22, 2025, at 14:09, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote: >>> >>> =EF=BB=BFI would love to see someone create a galvo-laser system for punc= hing >>> paper/mylar tape. On Aliexpress you can get a galvo set for (all prices >>> USD) ~$30, a 10W laser head for $40, and I expect making a stepper-motor >>> driven capstan wouldn't be too hard for someone with the time. Then add a >>> low-speed fan attached to a 3D printed tape guide with a slit for chad >>> suction/collection and fume exhaust. Not sure what kind of anvil/platform >>> you need for a laser beam - maybe just the uncoated side of a ceramic flo= or >>> tile sitting at an angle in the chad chute to absorb the laser energy, wi= th >>> the platform having a void sized for the punching area. >>> >>> I imagine the whole thing could be pretty compact and wicked fast! >>> >>> -- >>> Anders Nelson >>> www.andersknelson.com >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Jun 22, 2025 at 9:24=E2=80=AFAM steven(a)malikoff.com steven--- v= ia cctalk < >>> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >>> >>>>> On 06/21/2025 11:47 PM AEST Gavin Scott via cctalk < >>>> cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: >>>>> A paper-tape reader is easy enough, just something where you manually >>>>> pull the tape past an optical reader etc. >>>>> >>>>> I have a ~cheap diode laser cutter and on my someday get around to it >>>>> list is to write a paper tape "punch" program that will cut a one foot >>>>> strip of punched paper tape out of a larger piece of paper, with the >>>>> possibility of using a roll of paper and manually advance it a foot at >>>>> a time using the sprocket holes and some pins for alignment. >>>> >>>> I wrote a tool to make 5-level Baudot, 8-level ASCII, Whirlwind, chadless >>>> etc. paper tape using a home CNC vinyl/stencil cutter >>>> https://github.com/1944GPW/ptap2dxf >>>> >>>> I saw another similar utility on Hackaday that uses a laser, but it did >>>> not have as many format options. >>>> https://hackaday.com/2025/01/29/paper-tape-with-lasers/ >>>> >>>> Steve. >>>> > --===============9022667339625890409==-- From bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jun 22 23:41:38 2025 From: ben To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 17:41:31 -0600 Message-ID: <33137880-21cc-46ef-9c72-64de44b1f8eb@jetnet.ab.ca> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6180960375546092089==" --===============6180960375546092089== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 2025-06-22 4:33 p.m., Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > If toggling the laser isn't doable, then you could use a shutter.  If > the shutter can't handle the heat, then a mirror that deflects the beam. Some machines used punched used film stock or film leader. Is that a valid option instead of paper tape. Ben. PS: A turning machine using ink to mark the tape (film leader). https://aturingmachine.com/index.php --===============6180960375546092089==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Sun Jun 22 23:52:55 2025 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 19:52:37 -0400 Message-ID: <651C360F-F471-4034-B1B6-C02EE8CCA5E7@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9110082703361760988==" --===============9110082703361760988== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Jun 22, 2025, at 5:00=E2=80=AFPM, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote: >=20 > I would love to see someone create a galvo-laser system for punching > paper/mylar tape. On Aliexpress you can get a galvo set for (all prices > USD) ~$30, a 10W laser head for $40, .. What is a "galvo-laser"? A lot of Aliexpress stuff is a total fake, it this = one of them? paul --===============9110082703361760988==-- From wayne.sudol@hotmail.com Mon Jun 23 00:13:10 2025 From: Wayne S To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2025 00:12:51 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <651C360F-F471-4034-B1B6-C02EE8CCA5E7@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7746604614562543196==" --===============7746604614562543196== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Probably could use film stock. Issues are it=E2=80=99s not too flexable, migh= t break after a read so it would be hard to handle, its hard, and would dull = the punch pins quickly, and film is expensive. Before CTP, we shot pasted-up pages with a big camera, and used that develope= d film to make plates. The film was punched after developing, with just 3 hol= es. The punches got dull after about 3000 punches and had to be replaced and = sent out for sharpening.=20 =20 Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 22, 2025, at 16:59, Paul Koning via cctalk = wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF >=20 >> On Jun 22, 2025, at 5:00=E2=80=AFPM, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote: >>=20 >> I would love to see someone create a galvo-laser system for punching >> paper/mylar tape. On Aliexpress you can get a galvo set for (all prices >> USD) ~$30, a 10W laser head for $40, .. >=20 > What is a "galvo-laser"? A lot of Aliexpress stuff is a total fake, it thi= s one of them? >=20 > paul --===============7746604614562543196==-- From bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca Mon Jun 23 00:23:58 2025 From: ben To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 18:23:48 -0600 Message-ID: <70dd88f1-9e0e-43ed-a842-dc342d18a5b1@jetnet.ab.ca> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CCO1PR08MB7208051390CF481CC9EB3B4CE47EA=40CO1PR08MB?= =?utf-8?q?7208=2Enamprd08=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6802221794287711632==" --===============6802221794287711632== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>>>> I saw another similar utility on Hackaday that uses a laser, but it did >>>>> not have as many format options. >>>>> https://hackaday.com/2025/01/29/paper-tape-with-lasers/ >>>>> >>>>> Steve. >>>>> Https://unimplementedtrap.com/paper-tape-punch --===============6802221794287711632==-- From bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca Mon Jun 23 00:39:59 2025 From: ben To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 18:39:35 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CCO1PR08MB72086703F266FF779830D58BE479A=40CO1PR08MB?= =?utf-8?q?7208=2Enamprd08=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6960999560428166944==" --===============6960999560428166944== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2025-06-22 6:12 p.m., Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > Probably could use film stock. Issues are it=E2=80=99s not too flexable, mi= ght break after a read so it would be hard to handle, its hard, and would dul= l the punch pins quickly, and film is expensive. > Before CTP, we shot pasted-up pages with a big camera, and used that develo= ped film to make plates. The film was punched after developing, with just 3 h= oles. The punches got dull after about 3000 punches and had to be replaced an= d sent out for sharpening. > =20 You need German know how. :) Zuse used that in 1941 on the Z3. > Sent from my iPhone >=20 Ben. --===============6960999560428166944==-- From anders.k.nelson@gmail.com Mon Jun 23 00:59:00 2025 From: Anders Nelson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 20:58:27 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <70dd88f1-9e0e-43ed-a842-dc342d18a5b1@jetnet.ab.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0454114696617724308==" --===============0454114696617724308== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Oh, uh, I guess we're done lol Incredible work and writeup! Any chance you'll post the 3D files so readers can build it? =D -- Anders Nelson www.andersknelson.com On Sun, Jun 22, 2025 at 8:29 PM ben via cctalk wrote: > > >>>>> I saw another similar utility on Hackaday that uses a laser, but it > did > >>>>> not have as many format options. > >>>>> https://hackaday.com/2025/01/29/paper-tape-with-lasers/ > >>>>> > >>>>> Steve. > >>>>> > > Https://unimplementedtrap.com/paper-tape-punch > --===============0454114696617724308==-- From drwho@virtadpt.net Mon Jun 23 01:30:42 2025 From: The Doctor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: VCF West August 1-2, 2025 - Mountain View, California Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2025 01:23:47 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20250622145337.1D43F877F3@classiccmp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2784345621162796712==" --===============2784345621162796712== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sunday, June 22nd, 2025 at 07:59, John Foust via cctalk wrote: > I'm considering attending this Amiga 40th anniversary celebration. >=20 > I was invited to speak on a panel on the topic of the experience of > early Amiga code development. >=20 > Who else might attend? I'm considering it. It depends on my work schedule and whether or not I can = find transportation to get there. The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415/510] WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/ Get thee down. Be thou funky. --===============2784345621162796712==-- From jeffrey@vcfed.org Mon Jun 23 02:07:20 2025 From: Jeffrey Brace To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] VCF =?utf-8?q?Montr=C3=A9al?= 2025 Jan 25-26 Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 22:06:50 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1808366188390161442==" --===============1808366188390161442== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit VCF Montréal is coming Jan 24-25, 2026. Reserve your hotel now! https://vcfed.org/vcf-montreal/vcf-montreal-2026-hotel/ Show updates here: https://vcfed.org/vcf-montreal/ Le VCF Montréal aura lieu les 24 et 25 janvier 2026. Réservez votre hôtel dès maintenant ! https://vcfed.org/vcf-montreal/vcf-montreal-2026-hotel/ Consultez les mises à jour ici : https://vcfed.org/vcf-montreal/ --===============1808366188390161442==-- From steven@malikoff.com Mon Jun 23 02:09:35 2025 From: "steven@malikoff.com steven@malikoff.com" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2025 12:04:20 +1000 Message-ID: <230208573.478783.1750644260113@webmail-oxcs.register.com> In-Reply-To: <70dd88f1-9e0e-43ed-a842-dc342d18a5b1@jetnet.ab.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6248865425652970342==" --===============6248865425652970342== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On 06/23/2025 10:23 AM AEST ben via cctalk wrote: > Https://unimplementedtrap.com/paper-tape-punch Wow, that is seriously impressive! It wasn't mentioned there, but the drill rod pieces could also be case harden= ed for longer cutting life. --===============6248865425652970342==-- From wayne.sudol@hotmail.com Mon Jun 23 02:38:11 2025 From: Wayne S To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2025 02:38:01 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <230208573.478783.1750644260113@webmail-oxcs.register.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6610565093091650948==" --===============6610565093091650948== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I like how he made the paper. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 22, 2025, at 19:19, steven(a)malikoff.com steven--- via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF >>> On 06/23/2025 10:23 AM AEST ben via cctalk wrot= e: >>=20 >> Https://unimplementedtrap.com/paper-tape-punch >=20 > Wow, that is seriously impressive! > It wasn't mentioned there, but the drill rod pieces could also be case hard= ened for longer cutting life. --===============6610565093091650948==-- From jeffrey@vcfed.org Mon Jun 23 02:38:58 2025 From: Jeffrey Brace To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] VCF West 2025 - Tickets - Aug. 1 & 2 at Computer History Museum - Mountain View, California Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 22:38:33 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8937175948521530626==" --===============8937175948521530626== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Get your tickets to VCF West 2025 now! https://connect.computerhistory.org/events/1ffceb98-f556-df49-f011-424756803a= ab VCF West takes place August 1 & 2 in Mountain View at the Computer History Museum. More info here: https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-west/ --===============8937175948521530626==-- From lbmgmusic@gmail.com Mon Jun 23 02:46:34 2025 From: Jay Cotton To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: VCF West August 1-2, 2025 - Mountain View, California Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 19:22:39 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20250622145337.1D43F877F3@classiccmp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1590718707675763408==" --===============1590718707675763408== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'll be exhibiting s100 h/w On Sun, Jun 22, 2025, 2:59=E2=80=AFPM John Foust via cctalk wrote: > At 09:18 PM 3/11/2025, Jeffrey Brace via cctalk wrote: > >VCF West is back on August 1 & 2, 2025 at the Computer History Museum in > >Mountain View, California. > > > >We're partnering with the Sacramento Amiga Computer Club and AmiWest to > >celebrate the 40th anniversary of the Amiga and other special guests. > > I'm considering attending this Amiga 40th anniversary celebration. > > I was invited to speak on a panel on the topic of the experience of > early Amiga code development. > > Who else might attend? > > - John > > > --===============1590718707675763408==-- From ard.p850ug1@gmail.com Mon Jun 23 03:15:20 2025 From: Tony Duell To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2025 04:15:02 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8e5c1b87-9d43-47c2-b377-2a0160871480@fjl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2402597050007835883==" --===============2402597050007835883== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Mon, Jun 23, 2025 at 3:59 AM Frank Leonhardt via cctalk wrote: > > There was a version of the Silent 700 terminal which had a unit on top > > containing 2 digital cassette drives [1]. These 'replaced' the paper > > tape punch and reader of other ASR terminals, I think you could save > > data from either the line or keyboard onto a caseette (equivelent of > > punching paper tape), copy from one to the other editing as you go and > > send the data from cassette to the line or printer (equvalent of > > reading a paper tape). > > > > [1] Same dimensions as a normal audio Compact Cassette but with a > > different grade of tape (higher coercivity?). You can identify the > > cassettes by the slightly off-centre notch in the rear edge. > > I never saw one of those, but that's the sort of thing I was as talking > about. The BIOS on a lot of the 8-bit micro boards I used was agnostic > as to whether it was a cassette tape interface or serial reader/punch. > The only snag was that the cassette couldn't start and stop on a > per-character basis so you couldn't realistically make a tape by keying > as you could with paper, and you had to insert nulls on the end of a CR > to allow time for processing a line that had just been input. Microsoft > BASIC had a NULL command to set the number of nulls required. So how, if > it could, did this Silent 700 make a keyed tape? These were not normal audio cassette recorders. They were units with several motors and solenoids so that the tape motion was controlled by the electronics. The 'ASR unit' -- the unit bolted on top of the normal Silent 700 -- contained buffer RAM, I think the data on the tape was stored in blocks so when doing key-to-tape, your keystrokes were stored in the buffer, then when the buffer was full, a block of data was written to tape. There were several such models. The older one was the ASR733 which was all TTL. The ASR742 had a 8008 in the main part of the terminal but I think the tape unit was still all TTL. FWIW I am sure I've seen single tape drives with a pair of RS232 sockets on the back to link between a terminal and modem and give 'ASR' facilities -- recording data to tape in blocks and replaying it later. -tony --===============2402597050007835883==-- From steven@malikoff.com Mon Jun 23 03:56:19 2025 From: "steven@malikoff.com steven@malikoff.com" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2025 13:56:09 +1000 Message-ID: <426075838.481945.1750650969377@webmail-oxcs.register.com> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CCO1PR08MB72085BBB724E00361E09422BE479A=40CO1PR08MB?= =?utf-8?q?7208=2Enamprd08=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4393481873830959211==" --===============4393481873830959211== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > On Jun 22, 2025, at 19:19, steven(a)malikoff.com steven--- via cctalk wrote: > >>> On 06/23/2025 10:23 AM AEST ben via cctalk wr= ote: > >>=20 > >> Https://unimplementedtrap.com/paper-tape-punch > >=20 > > Wow, that is seriously impressive! > > It wasn't mentioned there, but the drill rod pieces could also be case ha= rdened for longer cutting life. > On 06/23/2025 12:38 PM AEST Wayne S wrote: > I like how he made the paper. It looks like a miniature version of a paper slitting machine. On eBay there = are plenty of them that handle a roll 820mm wide to make decorative tape, han= d cranked. They only come with one cutting blade head so if that part was cloned/3D prin= ted and positioned at tape width intervals along the bar so they all cut at o= nce (and have take-up spools) then I reckon it would probably work well enoug= h. --===============4393481873830959211==-- From bobalan@sbcglobal.net Mon Jun 23 06:15:12 2025 From: Bob Rosenbloom To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 23:14:53 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5713807868107544903==" --===============5713807868107544903== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There were a whole bunch of cartridge / cassette systems made to record and play back RS-232 data. Sykes (made the 4912 cassette unit for Tektronix) , Memodyne, Teac, Sy/MAX and many others made them. I have a Tektronix 4923 that I've used in line with a 4006 terminal connected to a PDP-8e. Used to load / save programs etc. A bit awkward to use sometimes but it's better, and faster, than paper tape. Nice that it's vintage also.  Some of these are incremental tape drive systems and can record single characters at a time. I had a Plessey recorder that could do that though it was a 7 bit parallel system. Bob -- Vintage computers and electronics www.dvq.com www.tekmuseum.com www.decmuseum.org --===============5713807868107544903==-- From ard.p850ug1@gmail.com Mon Jun 23 08:30:00 2025 From: Tony Duell To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2025 09:29:38 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8e5c1b87-9d43-47c2-b377-2a0160871480@fjl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3658612224848734830==" --===============3658612224848734830== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Mon, Jun 23, 2025 at 3:59 AM Frank Leonhardt via cctalk wrote: > So how, if > it could, did this Silent 700 make a keyed tape? > Incidentally there are user and service manals for assorted Silent 700 machines on bitsavers here : http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ti/terminal/silent_700/ Alas I've yet to find a service manual anywhere with a complete legible set of schematics, but there's a lot of useful theory-of-operation in them. The user manual for the ASR733 explains how to do key-to-tape etc. There's also the manual for the later model 765 which used bubble memory cartridges for the ASR storage. No I don't have one of those. I do have an almost-complete ASR733 and a spare ASR chassis missing the casing. The 'almost complete' is because I am missing the (external) cable between the main backplane and the ASR backplane and the wirelist is not obvious from the manuals I have. -tony --===============3658612224848734830==-- From bhilpert@shaw.ca Mon Jun 23 18:39:08 2025 From: Brent Hilpert To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2025 11:38:59 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3115116748927311019==" --===============3115116748927311019== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2025Jun 22,, at 11:14 PM, Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk wrote: >=20 > There were a whole bunch of cartridge / cassette systems made to record and= play back RS-232 data. Sykes (made the 4912 cassette unit for Tektronix) , M= emodyne, Teac, Sy/MAX and many others made them. I have a Tektronix 4923 that= I've used in line with a 4006 terminal connected to a PDP-8e. Used to load /= save programs etc. A bit awkward to use sometimes but it's better, and faste= r, than paper tape. Nice that it's vintage also. Some of these are increment= al tape drive systems and can record single characters at a time. I had a Ple= ssey recorder that could do that though it was a 7 bit parallel system. Just as a note if you=E2=80=99re unaware and of any interest: the 4923 has a= n 8008 processor in it. I have one as well, for years, though have never tried to use it, didn=E2=80= =99t have a cartridge or a manual. Just searched, there is (now) a manual available on line. --===============3115116748927311019==-- From mhs.stein@gmail.com Mon Jun 23 21:34:50 2025 From: Mike Stein To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Fwd: Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:34:31 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9079384953724925651==" --===============9079384953724925651== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sorry, looking at some DIY PPT ideas on Youtube that's not exactly what we're looking for; I was thinking of projects that mount a cash register tape or similar on a lathe or something rotating and then cut it into thinner strips, preferably with a rotating cutter but a box cutter will do. I'm sure they're out there, I've seen them. I worked with PPT a lot back in my association with Burroughs; the 'L' series of machines used punch-once, read-many mylar tapes in an integrated reader, originally read with pins linked to the electro-mechanical keyboard with both later replaced with electronic versions. For Data I/O some models also used 'normal' paper tape in an external reader and punch, also capable of punching and reading edge-punched cards; these were later replaced with high-speed cassette drives. ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Mike Stein Date: Sun, Jun 22, 2025 at 8:59 AM Subject: Re: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: ben Pretty easy to make PPT yourself; Google 'DIY Paper Tape'. On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 6:39 PM ben via cctalk wrote: > On 2025-06-21 1:18 p.m., Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > > Actual oiled paper tape that meets specs is difficult to make. > > You need a thick stock and the tape is impregnated with oil to lubricate > the punch mechanism. > > The actual specs for it is available on Bitsavers. > > > > That said, old, unused paper tape seems to becoming more available on > ebay as people discover it in garage sales and put it up for resale. If you > are going to punch and reuse the tape a few times, then mylar tape is > usable, but it will dull your punch bits. > > > Lack of paper tape is was why I was asking about a replacement. > The same goes for TTY replacement. > --===============9079384953724925651==-- From jeffrey@vcfed.org Mon Jun 23 21:43:41 2025 From: Jeffrey Brace To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] VCF =?utf-8?q?Montr=C3=A9al?= 2026 Exhibit Registration Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:43:17 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5594435611333004687==" --===============5594435611333004687== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit VCF Montréal 2026 exhibit registration is open now! https://forms.gle/TKrCy7EyBHubRAdu7 Show info is here: https://vcfed.org/vcf-montreal/ Les inscriptions pour l'exposition VCF Montréal 2026 sont ouvertes ! https://forms.gle/TKrCy7EyBHubRAdu7 Informations sur l'exposition : https://vcfed.org/vcf-montreal/ --===============5594435611333004687==-- From d44617665@hotmail.com Tue Jun 24 00:23:41 2025 From: David Wise To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Fwd: Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 00:23:32 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3682327724728753525==" --===============3682327724728753525== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I appreciate DIY enthusiasm, but keep this in your back pocket: I have a read= er, a punch, and some blank tape. Dave Wise in Hillsboro Oregon ________________________________ From: Mike Stein via cctalk Sent: Monday, June 23, 2025 2:34 PM To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org ; bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.= ca Cc: Mike Stein Subject: [cctalk] Fwd: Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape = punch/reader Sorry, looking at some DIY PPT ideas on Youtube that's not exactly what we're looking for; I was thinking of projects that mount a cash register tape or similar on a lathe or something rotating and then cut it into thinner strips, preferably with a rotating cutter but a box cutter will do. I'm sure they're out there, I've seen them. I worked with PPT a lot back in my association with Burroughs; the 'L' series of machines used punch-once, read-many mylar tapes in an integrated reader, originally read with pins linked to the electro-mechanical keyboard with both later replaced with electronic versions. For Data I/O some models also used 'normal' paper tape in an external reader and punch, also capable of punching and reading edge-punched cards; these were later replaced with high-speed cassette drives. ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Mike Stein Date: Sun, Jun 22, 2025 at 8:59=E2=80=AFAM Subject: Re: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: ben Pretty easy to make PPT yourself; Google 'DIY Paper Tape'. On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 6:39=E2=80=AFPM ben via cctalk wrote: > On 2025-06-21 1:18 p.m., Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > > Actual oiled paper tape that meets specs is difficult to make. > > You need a thick stock and the tape is impregnated with oil to lubricate > the punch mechanism. > > The actual specs for it is available on Bitsavers. > > > > That said, old, unused paper tape seems to becoming more available on > ebay as people discover it in garage sales and put it up for resale. If you > are going to punch and reuse the tape a few times, then mylar tape is > usable, but it will dull your punch bits. > > > Lack of paper tape is was why I was asking about a replacement. > The same goes for TTY replacement. > --===============3682327724728753525==-- From doc@vaxen.net Tue Jun 24 01:11:11 2025 From: Doc Shipley To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2025 20:01:51 -0500 Message-ID: <2ac0f31a-7532-43e0-901e-7fdad83427dc@vaxen.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1953732898503499641==" --===============1953732898503499641== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 6/21/25 15:13, ben via cctalk wrote: > Lack of paper tape is was why I was asking about a replacement. > The same goes for TTY replacement. > Late to the conversation, but the CNC machines I operated in the early '80s used mylar tape, I always assumed in defense against very harsh shop conditions. I have no idea whether that's still a product but it seems it would be easier to get made than a suitable paper tape. My guess is that any thin, opaque laminate would do if it can be punched Doc --===============1953732898503499641==-- From lewissa78@gmail.com Tue Jun 24 04:02:35 2025 From: Steve Lewis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Boot-to-BASIC / was Re: Looking for IBM System/3 BASIC book Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2025 23:02:18 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <843C99C6-2130-44BC-AAEB-4BFA5763D091@shaw.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3760511000136633948==" --===============3760511000136633948== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On the HP9830 - I'm not sure if it was really available in 1972 (I suspect it was announced in that year, but not for general public sale until the following year). I say this because in the SCAMP prototype development journals, Joe George (of IBM) doesn't mention the HP9830 until October 1973 (and in his notes, he refers to it being mentioned in "Electronic News page 31", but I've never been able to find that reference). I believe Paul Friedl was aware of some early HP9830 concepts of prototypes (maybe in 1972), motivating him to try to incorporate the "Bathia" style printer into their "portable computer" concept (but ended up never pulling that off -- but rather they incorporated a more functional CRT). My notes on this are about 3/4th down on this page. https://voidstar.blog/ibm-scamp-joe-george-notebook/ We had an operational HP9830 last year at VCF SW (with the attached printer, it is a wonderful system). While it does "boot to BASIC", as I recall one expansion cartridge is necessary to support some additional keywords (like possibly the TRIG functions or some certain operations). So it may be more fair to also consider "level of BASIC" that is being supported (e.g. Microsoft's own 4K BASIC being quite limited, or similar systems trying to do some form of BASIC in under 4K of ROM). My notes about the HP9830 experience at the end of this page: https://voidstar.blog/exploring-project-ahl-in-2024/ Someone mentioned the IBM System/3 also had a form of boot of BASIC. I don't think it was 2 seconds of startup, as I think it did load from a disk pack. But the disk pack could be setup to auto-load something on startup, so you get the effect of getting to a "READY" prompt on power up. Speaking of Microsoft BASIC's - I suppose none of the Altair offerings were really "boot to BASIC" (maybe you could rig it to auto-load from the paper tape). In the microcomputer domain, does the PET remain really as the first boot to BASIC system? (and fairly full featured, with floating point and trig functions) -Steve On Wed, Jun 18, 2025 at 4:19=E2=80=AFPM Brent Hilpert via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > A few weeks ago this question was raised: > > On 2025 May 6, at 11:20 PM, Steve Lewis via cctalk > wrote: > > > Anyway, it leads to a question of what was the first boot-to-BASIC > system? > > The first to come to mind was the HP-9830, it was mentioned but seemingly > dismissed: > > > And tentatively I'm thinking that might have been the Wang 2200 (but I've > > no idea what the "lineage" of the Wang 2200 BASIC was). Yes, yes, there > > was the HP9830 (if the BASIC ROM cartridge was inserted) - sales of both > > systems seemed to have started really in =E2=80=9974. > > > To my awareness, the 9830 was the first boot-to-BASIC-from-ROM-at-power-on > machine, or =E2=80=98BASIC appliance=E2=80=99. Available/announced late 19= 72. > (It didn=E2=80=99t need a 'BASIC ROM cartridge' to be inserted - BASIC in R= OM was > built-in as part of the standard out-of-the-box system. Optional ROM > cartridges could be plugged-in to extend the built-in BASIC.) > > However, there was a much-earlier system: As early as mid-1968 HP was > marketing single-user HP BASIC for the HP-2116 (or 2115, 2114). (This was > distinct from HP-2000 time-shared BASIC). It didn=E2=80=99t automatically = boot, > but with 3 button-pushes you could be in the full BASIC environment > (=E2=80=9CREADY=E2=80=9D) in less than 2 seconds from power-on. No (re-)lo= ading required, > nor disk or tape drives, nor separate OS or executive. This was, of > course, thanks to the non-volatility of core. > > This replay is late because I had to get around to conforming that the > above actually works, that is, you could repeatedly reboot the prior-loaded > interpreter across many power cycles - it didn=E2=80=99t alter anything aft= er boot > that would necessitate re-loading. > > --===============3760511000136633948==-- From bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jun 24 06:33:56 2025 From: ben To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Boot-to-BASIC / was Re: Looking for IBM System/3 BASIC book Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 00:33:47 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7826325642511612606==" --===============7826325642511612606== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 2025-06-23 10:02 p.m., Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote: > > Speaking of Microsoft BASIC's - I suppose none of the Altair offerings were > really "boot to BASIC" (maybe you could rig it to auto-load from the paper > tape). In the microcomputer domain, does the PET remain really as the > first boot to BASIC system? (and fairly full featured, with floating point > and trig functions) > Altair was still a home-brew system, with what ever you had on the S100 bus.With no standard I/O one had to patch BASIC.Did CP/M have a BASIC? I always thought the apple II was first. > -Steve > Ben. --===============7826325642511612606==-- From ard.p850ug1@gmail.com Tue Jun 24 07:50:10 2025 From: Tony Duell To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Boot-to-BASIC / was Re: Looking for IBM System/3 BASIC book Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 08:49:54 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2621992317133979271==" --===============2621992317133979271== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 5:19 AM Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote: > > We had an operational HP9830 last year at VCF SW (with the attached > printer, it is a wonderful system). While it does "boot to BASIC", as I > recall one expansion cartridge is necessary to support some additional > keywords (like possibly the TRIG functions or some certain operations). Trig functions (and floating point numbers/variables) are standard on the HP9830. As a aside, the HP9810 and HP9820 calculators (related machines in that they used the same bit-serial processor) did need an extra ROM module for the trig functions There are many expansion ROM modules for the HP9830, including : String Variables. Without this you can print string constants (to label inputs and outputs. for example) but nothing more. This ROM adds the ability to store and manipulate character strings in variables Extended I/O : Essential if you want to use any I/O devices other than the printer and cassette drive, really. Allows binary I/O, use of HPIB (with the appropriate interface), etc Matrices : Adds the MAT statements that were present in original BASIC and missing in most microcomputer versions. This ROM for the HP9830 is surprising common in my experience. -tony --===============2621992317133979271==-- From mattislind@gmail.com Tue Jun 24 10:45:50 2025 From: Mattis Lind To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Boot-to-BASIC / was Re: Looking for IBM System/3 BASIC book Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 12:45:31 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3286078171410417037==" --===============3286078171410417037== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Regarding when the HP9830 was introduced I think it is quite clear that it happened in late 1972. There is a full HP Journal devoted to HP98xx: https://hparchive.com/Journals/HPJ-1972-12.pdf https://hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=55 So if someone wasn't aware of the HP9830 until 1973 maybe he just didn't read the HP Journal? /Mattis > --===============3286078171410417037==-- From mhs.stein@gmail.com Tue Jun 24 14:43:29 2025 From: Mike Stein To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 10:43:05 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2ac0f31a-7532-43e0-901e-7fdad83427dc@vaxen.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8507667130761028287==" --===============8507667130761028287== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mylar tape was indeed used in hostile environments but also elsewhere where it would be read many times, for loading programs, firmware or fixed data; the much cheaper and more fragile paper tape would usually be used for transferring or archiving data which would either be stored and archived or read once and discarded when an updated tape was made. On Mon, Jun 23, 2025 at 9:34 PM Doc Shipley via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 6/21/25 15:13, ben via cctalk wrote: > > Lack of paper tape is was why I was asking about a replacement. > > The same goes for TTY replacement. > > > > Late to the conversation, but the CNC machines I operated in the early > '80s used mylar tape, I always assumed in defense against very harsh > shop conditions. > > I have no idea whether that's still a product but it seems it would be > easier to get made than a suitable paper tape. My guess is that any > thin, opaque laminate would do if it can be punched > > > Doc > --===============8507667130761028287==-- From mhs.stein@gmail.com Tue Jun 24 14:49:20 2025 From: Mike Stein To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 10:49:00 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2ac0f31a-7532-43e0-901e-7fdad83427dc@vaxen.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0801198533023922067==" --===============0801198533023922067== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Paper tape isn't that difficult to make by slicing a wider paper roll such as for PoS printers into appropriate widths; some folks have had some success just carefully chucking the roll into an electric drill clamped in a vise and holding a box cutter with a sharp knife against it while it rotated. On Mon, Jun 23, 2025 at 9:34 PM Doc Shipley via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 6/21/25 15:13, ben via cctalk wrote: > > Lack of paper tape is was why I was asking about a replacement. > > The same goes for TTY replacement. > > > > Late to the conversation, but the CNC machines I operated in the early > '80s used mylar tape, I always assumed in defense against very harsh > shop conditions. > > I have no idea whether that's still a product but it seems it would be > easier to get made than a suitable paper tape. My guess is that any > thin, opaque laminate would do if it can be punched > > > Doc > --===============0801198533023922067==-- From frank@fjl.co.uk Tue Jun 24 18:21:36 2025 From: Frank Leonhardt To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 18:05:40 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2ac0f31a-7532-43e0-901e-7fdad83427dc@vaxen.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6464401458574361487==" --===============6464401458574361487== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 24/06/2025 02:01, Doc Shipley via cctalk wrote: > On 6/21/25 15:13, ben via cctalk wrote: >> Lack of paper tape is was why I was asking about a replacement. >> The same goes for TTY replacement. >> > > Late to the conversation, but the CNC machines I operated in the early > '80s used mylar tape, I always assumed in defense against very harsh > shop conditions. > > I have no idea whether that's still a product but it seems it would be > easier to get made than a suitable paper tape.  My guess is that any > thin, opaque laminate would do if it can be punched I used "plastic" tape on an Elliott 803 in the 1970s - it was common for things like compilers as it lasted a long time. The readers didn't mind it at all but the punches weren't so keen. IIRC they were run slowly for copying to plastic and cleaned afterwards. Whether this was common practice I wouldn't know. People hereabouts might. --===============6464401458574361487==-- From wayne.sudol@hotmail.com Tue Jun 24 18:41:52 2025 From: Wayne S To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 18:41:45 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5935240246410041466==" --===============5935240246410041466== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There=E2=80=99s really a disconnect on between reading and punching paper tap= e.=20 For making blank tape that can be used in a punch, you can cut a roll of som= ething down to a proper width, but the paper has to be thicker than cashiers = paper. The real trick is that the paper has to be perforated in the middle be= fore use. That=E2=80=99s how it=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cdragged=E2=80=9D thru the = punch/reader. I haven=E2=80=99t seen anyone mention how to do that. If you can manage to do that, then you could also oil the paper and use it on= a punch.=20 Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 24, 2025, at 11:29, Frank Leonhardt via cctalk wrote: > =EF=BB=BFOn 24/06/2025 02:01, Doc Shipley via cctalk wrote: >> On 6/21/25 15:13, ben via cctalk wrote: >>> Lack of paper tape is was why I was asking about a replacement. >>> The same goes for TTY replacement. >>=20 >> Late to the conversation, but the CNC machines I operated in the early '80= s used mylar tape, I always assumed in defense against very harsh shop condit= ions. >>=20 >> I have no idea whether that's still a product but it seems it would be eas= ier to get made than a suitable paper tape. My guess is that any thin, opaqu= e laminate would do if it can be punched >=20 > I used "plastic" tape on an Elliott 803 in the 1970s - it was common for th= ings like compilers as it lasted a long time. The readers didn't mind it at a= ll but the punches weren't so keen. IIRC they were run slowly for copying to = plastic and cleaned afterwards. >=20 > Whether this was common practice I wouldn't know. People hereabouts might. --===============5935240246410041466==-- From wayne.sudol@hotmail.com Tue Jun 24 18:45:15 2025 From: Wayne S To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 18:45:08 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CPH0PR08MB72107118737301DDF8AD65EFE478A=40PH0PR08MB?= =?utf-8?q?7210=2Enamprd08=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5531591422628181169==" --===============5531591422628181169== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable P.S.=20 mylar/plastic was used for read many tapes. That is a tape that is going to b= e red many times and usually holds some critical program. The center sprocket= really could eat up paper tapes. That=E2=80=99s why some material with durab= ility was needed. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 24, 2025, at 11:41, Wayne S wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFThere=E2=80=99s really a disconnect on between reading and punchin= g paper tape. > For making blank tape that can be used in a punch, you can cut a roll of s= omething down to a proper width, but the paper has to be thicker than cashier= s paper. The real trick is that the paper has to be perforated in the middle = before use. That=E2=80=99s how it=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cdragged=E2=80=9D thru th= e punch/reader. I haven=E2=80=99t seen anyone mention how to do that. >=20 > If you can manage to do that, then you could also oil the paper and use it = on a punch. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Sent from my iPhone >=20 >>> On Jun 24, 2025, at 11:29, Frank Leonhardt via cctalk wrote: >>> =EF=BB=BFOn 24/06/2025 02:01, Doc Shipley via cctalk wrote: >>> On 6/21/25 15:13, ben via cctalk wrote: >>>> Lack of paper tape is was why I was asking about a replacement. >>>> The same goes for TTY replacement. >>>=20 >>> Late to the conversation, but the CNC machines I operated in the early '8= 0s used mylar tape, I always assumed in defense against very harsh shop condi= tions. >>>=20 >>> I have no idea whether that's still a product but it seems it would be ea= sier to get made than a suitable paper tape. My guess is that any thin, opaq= ue laminate would do if it can be punched >>=20 >> I used "plastic" tape on an Elliott 803 in the 1970s - it was common for t= hings like compilers as it lasted a long time. The readers didn't mind it at = all but the punches weren't so keen. IIRC they were run slowly for copying to= plastic and cleaned afterwards. >>=20 >> Whether this was common practice I wouldn't know. People hereabouts might. --===============5531591422628181169==-- From ard.p850ug1@gmail.com Tue Jun 24 19:10:11 2025 From: Tony Duell To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 20:09:53 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CPH0PR08MB72107118737301DDF8AD65EFE478A=40PH0PR08MB?= =?utf-8?q?7210=2Enamprd08=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7795501707794612953==" --===============7795501707794612953== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 8:04=E2=80=AFPM Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > > There=E2=80=99s really a disconnect on between reading and punching paper t= ape. > For making blank tape that can be used in a punch, you can cut a roll of s= omething down to a proper width, but the paper has to be thicker than cashier= s paper. The real trick is that the paper has to be perforated in the middle = before use. That=E2=80=99s how it=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cdragged=E2=80=9D thru th= e punch/reader. I haven=E2=80=99t seen anyone mention how to do that. > > If you can manage to do that, then you could also oil the paper and use it = on a punch. Every paper tape punch (Teletype, Friden, DEC, Facit, Data Dynamics...) I have punches the sprocket holes along with the data holes. Some need a bit of help (pull the tape by hand) to get started on a new roll of tape, but once it starts punching properly it will continue to do so until the roll runs out. -tony --===============7795501707794612953==-- From wayne.sudol@hotmail.com Tue Jun 24 19:17:04 2025 From: Wayne S To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 19:16:55 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6089086459879963058==" --===============6089086459879963058== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Interesting.=20 All the ones i used, including some teletypes, needed pre-punched tape, osten= sibly to ensure proper alignment. We used to buy pallets of prepunched tape. = Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 24, 2025, at 12:10, Tony Duell wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 8:04=E2=80=AFPM Wayne S via cctalk > wrote: >>=20 >> There=E2=80=99s really a disconnect on between reading and punching paper = tape. >> For making blank tape that can be used in a punch, you can cut a roll of = something down to a proper width, but the paper has to be thicker than cashie= rs paper. The real trick is that the paper has to be perforated in the middle= before use. That=E2=80=99s how it=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cdragged=E2=80=9D thru t= he punch/reader. I haven=E2=80=99t seen anyone mention how to do that. >>=20 >> If you can manage to do that, then you could also oil the paper and use it= on a punch. >=20 > Every paper tape punch (Teletype, Friden, DEC, Facit, Data > Dynamics...) I have punches the sprocket holes along with the data > holes. Some need a bit of help (pull the tape by hand) to get started > on a new roll of tape, but once it starts punching properly it will > continue to do so until the roll runs out. >=20 > -tony --===============6089086459879963058==-- From ard.p850ug1@gmail.com Tue Jun 24 19:20:39 2025 From: Tony Duell To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 20:20:19 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2744035846444863546==" --===============2744035846444863546== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 3:49 PM Mike Stein via cctalk wrote: > > Mylar tape was indeed used in hostile environments but also elsewhere where > it would be read many times, for loading programs, firmware or fixed data; > the much cheaper and more fragile paper tape would usually be used for > transferring or archiving data which would either be stored and archived or > read once and discarded when an updated tape was made. It depends to some extent how 'kind' your reader is to the tape. There are basically 3 types of readers, least kind first : 1) Feed using the sprocket holes on a toothed sprocket, sense the data holes with mechanical feelers (Creed call them 'Peckers' in their service manuals). Often found as part of ASR teleprinters. 2) Feed using the sprocket holes on a toothed sprocket but use a non-contact method to sense the data holes, Normally optical but there was at least one capacitive reader. An example is the DEC PC04 or PC05. There are many others. 3) Feed the tape between a smooth capstan and pinch roller. Sense the sprocket and data holes using a non-contact method. HP2748, some Elliot readers, the excellent Trend UDR700 or HSR500.etc. A paper tape may be damaged after a few passes through a mechanical reader but will be good for hundreds of reads on one of type {3}. -tony --===============2744035846444863546==-- From g4ajq1@gmail.com Tue Jun 24 19:24:05 2025 From: Nigel Johnson Ham To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 15:23:56 -0400 Message-ID: <34c889dd-5230-4493-8c32-940b97691d22@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CPH0PR08MB72102BA9F4B9B2D9BFEBA3A9E478A=40PH0PR08MB?= =?utf-8?q?7210=2Enamprd08=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3861988314134544236==" --===============3861988314134544236== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2025-06-24 14:45, Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > P.S. > mylar/plastic was used for read many tapes. That is a tape that is going to= be red many times and usually holds some critical program. The center sprock= et really could eat up paper tapes. That=E2=80=99s why some material with dur= ability was needed. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jun 24, 2025, at 11:41, Wayne S wrote: >> >> =EF=BB=BFThere=E2=80=99s really a disconnect on between reading and punchi= ng paper tape. >> For making blank tape that can be used in a punch, you can cut a roll of = something down to a proper width, but the paper has to be thicker than cashie= rs paper. The real trick is that the paper has to be perforated in the middle= before use. That=E2=80=99s how it=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cdragged=E2=80=9D thru t= he punch/reader. I haven=E2=80=99t seen anyone mention how to do that. >> >> If you can manage to do that, then you could also oil the paper and use it= on a punch. >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>> On Jun 24, 2025, at 11:29, Frank Leonhardt via cctalk wrote: >>>> =EF=BB=BFOn 24/06/2025 02:01, Doc Shipley via cctalk wrote: >>>> On 6/21/25 15:13, ben via cctalk wrote: >>>>> Lack of paper tape is was why I was asking about a replacement. >>>>> The same goes for TTY replacement. >>>> Late to the conversation, but the CNC machines I operated in the early '= 80s used mylar tape, I always assumed in defense against very harsh shop cond= itions. >>>> >>>> I have no idea whether that's still a product but it seems it would be e= asier to get made than a suitable paper tape. My guess is that any thin, opa= que laminate would do if it can be punched >>> I used "plastic" tape on an Elliott 803 in the 1970s - it was common for = things like compilers as it lasted a long time. The readers didn't mind it at= all but the punches weren't so keen. IIRC they were run slowly for copying t= o plastic and cleaned afterwards. >>> >>> Whether this was common practice I wouldn't know. People hereabouts might. Absolutely!=C2=A0 I used to maintain a Bell Canada Univac site where we had=20 1004 printer/card readers and the form feed spacing control used exactly=20 that, a little loop of mylar that ran around in sequence with the=20 paper.=C2=A0 Never had to change it in the five years I was there! All maintenance access to the mainframes was by 35ASR TTYs, and they=20 only used oiled paper tape, and the PDP-11 paging computer was loaded by=20 paper tape on an ASR33!=C2=A0 Took 45 minutes to get back online if both CPUs= =20 failed at the same time.=C2=A0 After it happened once, we had a DEC tech on=20 call with a high-speed reader, contracted to have a non-Bell pager! cheers Nigel --=20 Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591 --===============3861988314134544236==-- From bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jun 24 19:24:56 2025 From: ben To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 13:24:47 -0600 Message-ID: <04938ae7-1f13-449c-b76a-3a2bf4c70be8@jetnet.ab.ca> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CPH0PR08MB72102BA9F4B9B2D9BFEBA3A9E478A=40PH0PR08MB?= =?utf-8?q?7210=2Enamprd08=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2117271073794941947==" --===============2117271073794941947== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2025-06-24 12:45 p.m., Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > P.S. > mylar/plastic was used for read many tapes. That is a tape that is going to= be red many times and usually holds some critical program. The center sprock= et really could eat up paper tapes. That=E2=80=99s why some material with dur= ability was needed. >=20 > Sent from my iPhone > FILM would still be better,since you have the film sprocket holes. As for punching you would need a slower but more power full punch I=20 guess, but faster than a TTY. --===============2117271073794941947==-- From wayne.sudol@hotmail.com Tue Jun 24 20:04:46 2025 From: Wayne S To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 20:04:36 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <04938ae7-1f13-449c-b76a-3a2bf4c70be8@jetnet.ab.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8313965136631107718==" --===============8313965136631107718== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One thing to remember, at least on the systems i used, was that the paper tap= e guide holes for the sprocket, were in the middle of the tape, not along the= top like film usually is. That said, Tony has indicated that his punches, to= ok unholed paper tape and punched the guide holes.=20 Mine didn=E2=80=99t do that and was curious about if mine were unusual in tha= t way.=20 Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 24, 2025, at 12:34, ben via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn 2025-06-24 12:45 p.m., Wayne S via cctalk wrote: >> P.S. >> mylar/plastic was used for read many tapes. That is a tape that is going t= o be red many times and usually holds some critical program. The center sproc= ket really could eat up paper tapes. That=E2=80=99s why some material with du= rability was needed. >> Sent from my iPhone >>=20 > FILM would still be better,since you have the film sprocket holes. > As for punching you would need a slower but more power full punch I guess, = but faster than a TTY. >=20 --===============8313965136631107718==-- From mhs.stein@gmail.com Wed Jun 25 00:14:41 2025 From: Mike Stein To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 20:14:23 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1252147055477188143==" --===============1252147055477188143== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Burroughs used both type 1 and 2; the issue with the 'high speed' optical readers was not so much internal but external, when the tape would accidentally get tangled and torn. Mylar was just so much more forgiving, even after a hundred or more reads, by which time the normally fairly stiff mylar would have become as soft as a good quality toilet paper. On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 3:20 PM Tony Duell wrote: > On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 3:49 PM Mike Stein via cctalk > wrote: > > > > Mylar tape was indeed used in hostile environments but also elsewhere > where > > it would be read many times, for loading programs, firmware or fixed > data; > > the much cheaper and more fragile paper tape would usually be used for > > transferring or archiving data which would either be stored and archived > or > > read once and discarded when an updated tape was made. > > It depends to some extent how 'kind' your reader is to the tape. > > There are basically 3 types of readers, least kind first : > > 1) Feed using the sprocket holes on a toothed sprocket, sense the data > holes with mechanical feelers (Creed call them 'Peckers' in their > service manuals). Often found as part of ASR teleprinters. > > 2) Feed using the sprocket holes on a toothed sprocket but use a > non-contact method to sense the data holes, Normally optical but there > was at least one capacitive reader. An example is the DEC PC04 or > PC05. There are many others. > > 3) Feed the tape between a smooth capstan and pinch roller. Sense the > sprocket and data holes using a non-contact method. HP2748, some > Elliot readers, the excellent Trend UDR700 or HSR500.etc. > > A paper tape may be damaged after a few passes through a mechanical > reader but will be good for hundreds of reads on one of type {3}. > > -tony > --===============1252147055477188143==-- From drwho@virtadpt.net Wed Jun 25 01:43:33 2025 From: The Doctor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2025 01:32:49 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5933831049898007366==" --===============5933831049898007366== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tuesday, June 24th, 2025 at 07:59, Mike Stein via cctalk wrote: > Paper tape isn't that difficult to make by slicing a wider paper roll such > as for PoS printers into appropriate widths; some folks have had some > success just carefully chucking the roll into an electric drill clamped in > a vise and holding a box cutter with a sharp knife against it while it > rotated. Just thinking out loud - how well would running one of those paper rolls thro= ugh a band saw to make smaller, skinny enough rolls work? The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415/510] WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/ Get thee down. Be thou funky. --===============5933831049898007366==-- From cisin@xenosoft.com Wed Jun 25 02:33:57 2025 From: Fred Cisin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 19:33:51 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3Clmc=5FM3eGlRSWEaMimgKMP-yhdLbYuIx1M5yaE=5FBONVS0GE?= =?utf-8?q?KVdkE0-z6DooisCFC=5FKj=5FiPzH0C=5FyJbJGycvsXJ=5F00YRRFjs7ZM6YNQ1c?= =?utf-8?q?DTzg=3D=40virtadpt=2Enet=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1726773658627755315==" --===============1726773658627755315== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 25 Jun 2025, The Doctor via cctalk wrote: > Just thinking out loud - how well would running one of those paper rolls th= rough a > band saw to make smaller, skinny enough rolls work? Here is some discussion of cuttingrolls of paper on a cardboard tube. That thread started with turning a 48 inch paper roll into two 24 inch=20 ones (hence the inapplicable comment about depth of throat of band saw) https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?306533-Crosscutting-a-ROLL-OF-PAPER-(= on-cardboard-tube)-on-the-table-saw --===============1726773658627755315==-- From steven@malikoff.com Wed Jun 25 03:40:31 2025 From: "steven@malikoff.com steven@malikoff.com" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2025 13:40:20 +1000 Message-ID: <1410890832.817893.1750822820941@webmail-oxcs.register.com> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3Clmc=5FM3eGlRSWEaMimgKMP-yhdLbYuIx1M5yaE=5FBONVS0GE?= =?utf-8?q?KVdkE0-z6DooisCFC=5FKj=5FiPzH0C=5FyJbJGycvsXJ=5F00YRRFjs7ZM6YNQ1c?= =?utf-8?q?DTzg=3D=40virtadpt=2Enet=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0174558045579417193==" --===============0174558045579417193== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On 06/25/2025 11:32 AM AEST The Doctor via cctalk = wrote: >=20 > =20 > On Tuesday, June 24th, 2025 at 07:59, Mike Stein via cctalk wrote: >=20 > > Paper tape isn't that difficult to make by slicing a wider paper roll such > > as for PoS printers into appropriate widths; some folks have had some > > success just carefully chucking the roll into an electric drill clamped in > > a vise and holding a box cutter with a sharp knife against it while it > > rotated. >=20 > Just thinking out loud - how well would running one of those paper rolls th= rough a > band saw to make smaller, skinny enough rolls work? If you believe you can bandsaw the roll to a tape width of the nominal 1.000"= and that any deviation in that width is less than the code holes 0.002" tra= nsverse allowance as defined in the ANSI X3.18-1967 Standard then you have ei= ther a really nice bandsaw and a well-made cutting jig or very very steady ha= nd. https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GOVPUB-C13-ca9eb746e25a5f1218b695f4e8e6e3= 67/pdf/GOVPUB-C13-ca9eb746e25a5f1218b695f4e8e6e367.pdf --===============0174558045579417193==-- From jeffrey@vcfed.org Wed Jun 25 03:41:25 2025 From: Jeffrey Brace To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] VCF West 2025 - Exhibit Lineup - Aug. 1 & 2, Mountain View, California Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 23:41:01 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0775863190053279227==" --===============0775863190053279227== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wow! VCF West 2025 Exhibit lineup: https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-west/vcf-west-exhibits/ Show info: https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-west/ Ticket info: https://connect.computerhistory.org/events/1ffceb98-f556-df49-f011-424756803a= ab --===============0775863190053279227==-- From lewissa78@gmail.com Wed Jun 25 05:58:18 2025 From: Steve Lewis To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Boot-to-BASIC / was Re: Looking for IBM System/3 BASIC book Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2025 00:57:57 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2733770533728121439==" --===============2733770533728121439== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ah yes, it was the MAT features that the stock 9830 lacked (without an expansion ROM slotted into the side), likewise with STRING support. As for the Apple II being a first boot-to-BASIC microcomputer... Maybe. Story goes that Chuck Peddle pulled all nighters getting the earliest PET ready for CES in January 1977 (the one with a wooden case), which included a boot-to-BASIC ROM - and per a VCF presentation by Leonard Tramiel (IIRC), this (now archived into a vault) prototype went on tour over to Europe also. Apple followed suit by mid-year (around May or June), but with INTEGER (only) BASIC. So while the PET had technically made sales earlier (at the CES show in January), from what I've read Apple II's were first to actually get delivered into customer hands. And good find of the HP9830 HP journal, I do recall coming across that in the past, and the price sheet near the end settles it for me (although that's the very end Dec 1972, so might be a little unclear exactly when deliveries happened -- I believe it was the same for the Altair? the Jan article was actually available Dec 1974, but orders still didn't arrive till a few months later into 1975?). The Wang 2200 was around mid-1973 (as a desktop boot to BASIC system, initially with that clunky external CPU and external PSU -- but a decent multi-row screen). There was a BASIC for one of the Intel 8008 systems in 1974, but I don't think any of them were boot-to-BASIC. On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 2:50 AM Tony Duell wrote: > On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 5:19 AM Steve Lewis via cctalk > wrote: > > > > We had an operational HP9830 last year at VCF SW (with the attached > > printer, it is a wonderful system). While it does "boot to BASIC", as I > > recall one expansion cartridge is necessary to support some additional > > keywords (like possibly the TRIG functions or some certain operations). > > Trig functions (and floating point numbers/variables) are standard on > the HP9830. As a aside, the HP9810 and HP9820 calculators (related > machines in that they used the same bit-serial processor) did need an > extra ROM module for the trig functions > > There are many expansion ROM modules for the HP9830, including : > > String Variables. Without this you can print string constants (to > label inputs and outputs. for example) but nothing more. This ROM adds > the ability to store and manipulate character strings in variables > > Extended I/O : Essential if you want to use any I/O devices other than > the printer and cassette drive, really. Allows binary I/O, use of HPIB > (with the appropriate interface), etc > > Matrices : Adds the MAT statements that were present in original BASIC > and missing in most microcomputer versions. This ROM for the HP9830 is > surprising common in my experience. > > -tony > --===============2733770533728121439==-- From mattislind@gmail.com Wed Jun 25 08:23:32 2025 From: Mattis Lind To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Boot-to-BASIC / was Re: Looking for IBM System/3 BASIC book Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2025 10:23:15 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7034245244513134498==" --===============7034245244513134498== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Den ons 25 juni 2025 kl 08:04 skrev Steve Lewis via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>: > Ah yes, it was the MAT features that the stock 9830 lacked (without an > expansion ROM slotted into the side), likewise with STRING support. > > > As for the Apple II being a first boot-to-BASIC microcomputer... Maybe. > Story goes that Chuck Peddle pulled all nighters getting the earliest PET > ready for CES in January 1977 (the one with a wooden case), which included > a boot-to-BASIC ROM - and per a VCF presentation by Leonard Tramiel (IIRC), > this (now archived into a vault) prototype went on tour over to Europe > also. Apple followed suit by mid-year (around May or June), but with > INTEGER (only) BASIC. So while the PET had technically made sales earlier > (at the CES show in January), from what I've read Apple II's were first to > actually get delivered into customer hands. > > > And good find of the HP9830 HP journal, I do recall coming across that in > the past, and the price sheet near the end settles it for me (although > that's the very end Dec 1972, so might be a little unclear exactly when > deliveries happened -- I believe it was the same for the Altair? the Jan > article was actually available Dec 1974, but orders still didn't arrive > till a few months later into 1975?). The Wang 2200 was around mid-1973 (as > a desktop boot to BASIC system, initially with that clunky external CPU and > external PSU -- but a decent multi-row screen). > Obviously hard to tell exactly when deliveries happened now more than 50 years ago. But I am thinking that HP was a whole different company compared to Altair. Found some ads: Ad at page 27. https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Electronic-Design/1973/Electronic-D= esign-V21-N03-1973-0201.pdf Ebay listing (ad claimed to be from 1972 - same picture as above) https://www.ebay.com/itm/144316234023 One also has to keep in mind that big chunks of the technology behind the 9830 already was in use in the HP9810 that was introduced in 1971. Exactly the same CPU boards. The same memory technology. Another, IMHO, interesting "Boot-to-BASIC" system from the seventies (1975) is the Tektronix 4051. Basically they took many ideas from a HP9830 or the like and used a (rather slow) MC6800 and paired it with Tektronix DVST technology. The result was a graphics capable personal computer. Not sure if there was anything similar around previously. The Imlac PDS-1 wasn't BASIC as far as I understand. https://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/4051 > > > There was a BASIC for one of the Intel 8008 systems in 1974, but I don't > think any of them were boot-to-BASIC. > The Datapoint 2200 had BASIC as well. Not in ROM though (there are no ROM in it...) . Not sure when this software was introduced. BASIC is listed in the 1975 catalog but not the 1972 catalog. /Mattis > > > > On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 2:50=E2=80=AFAM Tony Duell wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 5:19=E2=80=AFAM Steve Lewis via cctalk > > wrote: > > > > > > We had an operational HP9830 last year at VCF SW (with the attached > > > printer, it is a wonderful system). While it does "boot to BASIC", as > I > > > recall one expansion cartridge is necessary to support some additional > > > keywords (like possibly the TRIG functions or some certain operations). > > > > Trig functions (and floating point numbers/variables) are standard on > > the HP9830. As a aside, the HP9810 and HP9820 calculators (related > > machines in that they used the same bit-serial processor) did need an > > extra ROM module for the trig functions > > > > There are many expansion ROM modules for the HP9830, including : > > > > String Variables. Without this you can print string constants (to > > label inputs and outputs. for example) but nothing more. This ROM adds > > the ability to store and manipulate character strings in variables > > > > Extended I/O : Essential if you want to use any I/O devices other than > > the printer and cassette drive, really. Allows binary I/O, use of HPIB > > (with the appropriate interface), etc > > > > Matrices : Adds the MAT statements that were present in original BASIC > > and missing in most microcomputer versions. This ROM for the HP9830 is > > surprising common in my experience. > > > > -tony > > > --===============7034245244513134498==-- From jeffrey@vcfed.org Thu Jun 26 02:51:23 2025 From: Jeffrey Brace To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] VCF =?utf-8?q?Montr=C3=A9al?= 2026 Speaker Registration Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2025 22:50:59 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0203375607879618909==" --===============0203375607879618909== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit VCF Montréal 2026 speaker registration is open now! https://forms.gle/iGqhMsfu94YcGoLp6 Show info is here: https://vcfed.org/vcf-montreal/ Les inscriptions pour les conférenciers du VCF Montréal 2026 sont ouvertes ! https://forms.gle/iGqhMsfu94YcGoLp6 Informations sur le salon : https://vcfed.org/vcf-montreal/ Jeff Brace --===============0203375607879618909==-- From drwho@virtadpt.net Thu Jun 26 05:08:27 2025 From: The Doctor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2025 05:08:13 +0000 Message-ID: <_Y1_Ls205R_FXyroVgawUxY8sGK265yU9sVlpIsTK0nQx99XYFaGjjZDBz9IL2CyFDTD8MrrZbfVLlBwZKEA2NBEm95HVNBYaBuiWxqp2i4=@virtadpt.net> In-Reply-To: <1410890832.817893.1750822820941@webmail-oxcs.register.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5735601349734999660==" --===============5735601349734999660== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tuesday, June 24th, 2025 at 20:49, steven(a)malikoff.com steven--- via cct= alk wrote: > If you believe you can bandsaw the roll to a tape width of the nominal 1.00= 0" > and that any deviation in that width is less than the code holes 0.002" tra= nsverse > allowance as defined in the ANSI X3.18-1967 Standard then you have either a= really > nice bandsaw and a well-made cutting jig or very very steady hand. I honestly don't know, I never tried. I was not making a passive-aggressive suggestion. I've been following this t= hread out of curiosity, then put my feet up on my desk to think about it a little b= it. I remembered the paper tape adding machine my grandfather used to have, remembe= red that one can still go down to the office supply store to buy rolls of paper tape f= or those adding machines, and was wondering if anyone had ever tried to make a suitabl= e roll of paper tape in such a way. But, if it won't work for the reason you cited (thank you for the reference, = by the bye) then I won't ask my neighbor if I can borrow his bandsaw to do a few tes= t cuts. The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415/510] WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/ Get thee down. Be thou funky. --===============5735601349734999660==-- From steven@malikoff.com Thu Jun 26 06:37:47 2025 From: "steven@malikoff.com steven@malikoff.com" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2025 16:37:39 +1000 Message-ID: <1572305450.976316.1750919859588@webmail-oxcs.register.com> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3C=5FY1=5FLs205R=5FFXyroVgawUxY8sGK265yU9sVlpIsTK0nQ?= =?utf-8?q?x99XYFaGjjZDBz9IL2CyFDTD8MrrZbfVLlBwZKEA2NBEm95HVNBYaBuiWxqp2i4?= =?utf-8?q?=3D=40virtadpt=2Enet=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2373315884155490119==" --===============2373315884155490119== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On 06/26/2025 3:08 PM AEST The Doctor via cctalk = wrote: >=20 > =20 > On Tuesday, June 24th, 2025 at 20:49, steven(a)malikoff.com steven--- via c= ctalk wrote: >=20 > > If you believe you can bandsaw the roll to a tape width of the nominal 1.= 000" > > and that any deviation in that width is less than the code holes 0.002" t= ransverse > > allowance as defined in the ANSI X3.18-1967 Standard then you have either= a really > > nice bandsaw and a well-made cutting jig or very very steady hand. >=20 > I honestly don't know, I never tried. >=20 > I was not making a passive-aggressive suggestion. I've been following this= thread > out of curiosity, then put my feet up on my desk to think about it a little= bit. I > remembered the paper tape adding machine my grandfather used to have, remem= bered that > one can still go down to the office supply store to buy rolls of paper tape= for those > adding machines, and was wondering if anyone had ever tried to make a suita= ble roll > of paper tape in such a way. >=20 > But, if it won't work for the reason you cited (thank you for the reference= , by the > bye) then I won't ask my neighbor if I can borrow his bandsaw to do a few t= est cuts. >=20 Sure, by all means go for it. If you can make some sort of robust circumferen= tial clamp=20 to prevent axial sliding of the roll (think of a rolled up poster with one co= nical (convex)=20 end and the other concave) due to imperfect rolling, and a resulting tape tha= t doesn't=20 exceed the nominal 1" width so it doesn't jam between the punch channel walls= , then you'd=20 be well on your way to possible success. --===============2373315884155490119==-- From useddec@gmail.com Thu Jun 26 07:08:49 2025 From: Paul Anderson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Q-bus, PDP8, VAX items Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2025 02:08:29 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5795705723282088123==" --===============5795705723282088123== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As many of you know I have been trying to finish organizing my Unibus parts and finish building several systems for years. Other than time and my health I don't have enough space. I would like to sell, at reasonable prices, all of my q-bus parts which include 400 - 500 boards, about a dozen boxes, and a lot of spare parts. I have BA11-M, BA11-N, BA11-S and a few BA23 boxes left. If you have an original 11/03, I have a dozen or so H780 power supplies, which are very hard to find. They are also used in the Vax 11/780 front end, the RKV11-D and possibly a few other items. I can test them if I have time, but that might take awhile. I'm also taking offers on some of my 8-E and all of my 8-A items. I will entertain offers on the VT14 and all of the PDP 14 industrial controller parts. I have a few Vax 3000, 5000, and a few others along with parts including memory. Those of you who have been here know I have a ton of DEC and DEC-compatible parts, but no one has seen everything. I have brand new disk heads, tape drive heads, alignment packs, and literally tons more. I went through over 50 backplanes a few weeks ago looking for a few specific ones. Some Unibus items are also going. Probable some 11/05s, 11/34s, 11/83 and/or 84s and a lot of options and boards. So if you need or are thinking about DEC items, feel free to send me a wish list off list. I prefer phone calls and will send my number upon request. I was never great at typing and I'm getting worse. Oh- I also trade for US and foreign coins and currency. Thank, Paul --===============5795705723282088123==-- From elson@pico-systems.com Thu Jun 26 15:40:31 2025 From: Jon Elson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Q-bus, PDP8, VAX items Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2025 10:40:22 -0500 Message-ID: <742c5592-0e7f-4824-ce63-f05603f59896@pico-systems.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8245334829886613221==" --===============8245334829886613221== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 6/26/25 02:08, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote: I've been wanting to reassemble a MicroVAX-II system here.  I do have an MDB Q-22 backplane, with no fan assembly or housing that I used ~15 years ago.  But, a nice small box with cooling, power supply and space for an 8" hard drive would make a nice package to drag up to the VCFMW this fall. A BA23 seems like it would be exactly what I'm looking for!  I cobbled up my own power good and bus reset circuit that never worked quite right, so having the DEC original circuit would also be great. Do you have what I'm looking for? Thanks, Jon --===============8245334829886613221==-- From epekstrom@gmail.com Thu Jun 26 15:58:39 2025 From: Peter Ekstrom To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Q-bus, PDP8, VAX items Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2025 11:58:20 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2925288680514661332==" --===============2925288680514661332== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Where are you located? I wouldn't mind a BA11-M box for my 11/23-PLUS. I have a feeling shipping would be pretty high for one of those. -Peter On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 3:14 AM Paul Anderson via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > As many of you know I have been trying to finish organizing my Unibus parts > and finish building several systems for years. Other than time and my > health I don't have enough space. I would like to sell, at reasonable > prices, all of my q-bus parts which include 400 - 500 boards, about a dozen > boxes, and a lot of spare parts. I have BA11-M, BA11-N, BA11-S and a few > BA23 boxes left. > > If you have an original 11/03, I have a dozen or so H780 power supplies, > which are very hard to find. They are also used in the Vax 11/780 front > end, the > RKV11-D and possibly a few other items. I can test them if I have time, but > that might take awhile. > > I'm also taking offers on some of my 8-E and all of my 8-A items. I will > entertain offers on the VT14 and all of the PDP 14 industrial controller > parts. > > I have a few Vax 3000, 5000, and a few others along with parts including > memory. > > Those of you who have been here know I have a ton of DEC and > DEC-compatible parts, but no one has seen everything. I have brand new > disk heads, tape drive heads, alignment packs, and literally tons more. I > went through over 50 backplanes a few weeks ago looking for a few specific > ones. > > Some Unibus items are also going. Probable some 11/05s, 11/34s, 11/83 > and/or 84s and a lot of options and boards. > > So if you need or are thinking about DEC items, feel free to send me a wish > list off list. > > I prefer phone calls and will send my number upon request. I was never > great at typing and I'm getting worse. > > Oh- I also trade for US and foreign coins and currency. > > Thank, Paul > --===============2925288680514661332==-- From useddec@gmail.com Thu Jun 26 16:24:05 2025 From: Paul Anderson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Q-bus, PDP8, VAX items Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2025 11:23:43 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <742c5592-0e7f-4824-ce63-f05603f59896@pico-systems.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2489660440555166188==" --===============2489660440555166188== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a few BA23s left, and a few which need TLC. Are you in St Louis? I'll be in Springfield in July. On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 10:49=E2=80=AFAM Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > On 6/26/25 02:08, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote: > > I've been wanting to reassemble a MicroVAX-II system here. > I do have an MDB Q-22 backplane, with no fan assembly or > housing that I used ~15 years ago. But, a nice small box > with cooling, power supply and space for an 8" hard drive > would make a nice package to drag up to the VCFMW this fall. > > A BA23 seems like it would be exactly what I'm looking for! > I cobbled up my own power good and bus reset circuit that > never worked quite right, so having the DEC original circuit > would also be great. > > Do you have what I'm looking for? > > Thanks, > > Jon > > --===============2489660440555166188==-- From useddec@gmail.com Thu Jun 26 16:30:00 2025 From: Paul Anderson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Q-bus, PDP8, VAX items Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2025 11:29:42 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4300865601489266991==" --===============4300865601489266991== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Peter, The BA11-M is the 4 x 4 box for the 11/03, and I would not recommend it for an 11/23 or 23+. The BA11-SA would be my pick. I can ship them. Where are you located? Thanks, Paul On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 11:04 AM Peter Ekstrom via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Where are you located? I wouldn't mind a BA11-M box for my 11/23-PLUS. > I have a feeling shipping would be pretty high for one of those. > > -Peter > > On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 3:14 AM Paul Anderson via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > As many of you know I have been trying to finish organizing my Unibus > parts > > and finish building several systems for years. Other than time and my > > health I don't have enough space. I would like to sell, at reasonable > > prices, all of my q-bus parts which include 400 - 500 boards, about a > dozen > > boxes, and a lot of spare parts. I have BA11-M, BA11-N, BA11-S and a few > > BA23 boxes left. > > > > If you have an original 11/03, I have a dozen or so H780 power supplies, > > which are very hard to find. They are also used in the Vax 11/780 front > > end, the > > RKV11-D and possibly a few other items. I can test them if I have time, > but > > that might take awhile. > > > > I'm also taking offers on some of my 8-E and all of my 8-A items. I will > > entertain offers on the VT14 and all of the PDP 14 industrial controller > > parts. > > > > I have a few Vax 3000, 5000, and a few others along with parts including > > memory. > > > > Those of you who have been here know I have a ton of DEC and > > DEC-compatible parts, but no one has seen everything. I have brand new > > disk heads, tape drive heads, alignment packs, and literally tons more. I > > went through over 50 backplanes a few weeks ago looking for a few > specific > > ones. > > > > Some Unibus items are also going. Probable some 11/05s, 11/34s, 11/83 > > and/or 84s and a lot of options and boards. > > > > So if you need or are thinking about DEC items, feel free to send me a > wish > > list off list. > > > > I prefer phone calls and will send my number upon request. I was never > > great at typing and I'm getting worse. > > > > Oh- I also trade for US and foreign coins and currency. > > > > Thank, Paul > > > --===============4300865601489266991==-- From kiwi_jonathan@yahoo.com Thu Jun 26 16:42:09 2025 From: Jonathan Stone To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Q-bus, PDP8, VAX items Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2025 16:42:01 +0000 Message-ID: <850578692.2892276.1750956121467@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8880846071696399762==" --===============8880846071696399762== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Hello, Do you by any chance have Vaxstation 4000 models or motherboards at hobbyist = prices? Or anything like an inventory of your Qbus boards? Other than that, I'm interested in a BA23, disk controllers (RQDX3 or SCSI), = DELQA/DEQNA. Also a KJD11-B (m7554) and some PMI memory for it, so I can run PDP-11 diags = on Qbus devices. (The field service uvax II diagnostics on TK50 are unobtainum.) thanks in advance -Jonathan =20 --===============8880846071696399762==-- From tdk.knight@gmail.com Thu Jun 26 16:46:59 2025 From: Adrian Stoness To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Q-bus, PDP8, VAX items Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2025 11:46:41 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4385152886633667102==" --===============4385152886633667102== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit u have spare pdp8a power supply thts good? for the one with core memory On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 11:39 AM Paul Anderson via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Hi Peter, > > The BA11-M is the 4 x 4 box for the 11/03, and I would not recommend it for > an 11/23 or 23+. The BA11-SA would be my pick. > > I can ship them. Where are you located? > > Thanks, Paul > > On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 11:04 AM Peter Ekstrom via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > Where are you located? I wouldn't mind a BA11-M box for my 11/23-PLUS. > > I have a feeling shipping would be pretty high for one of those. > > > > -Peter > > > > On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 3:14 AM Paul Anderson via cctalk < > > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > As many of you know I have been trying to finish organizing my Unibus > > parts > > > and finish building several systems for years. Other than time and my > > > health I don't have enough space. I would like to sell, at reasonable > > > prices, all of my q-bus parts which include 400 - 500 boards, about a > > dozen > > > boxes, and a lot of spare parts. I have BA11-M, BA11-N, BA11-S and a > few > > > BA23 boxes left. > > > > > > If you have an original 11/03, I have a dozen or so H780 power > supplies, > > > which are very hard to find. They are also used in the Vax 11/780 front > > > end, the > > > RKV11-D and possibly a few other items. I can test them if I have time, > > but > > > that might take awhile. > > > > > > I'm also taking offers on some of my 8-E and all of my 8-A items. I > will > > > entertain offers on the VT14 and all of the PDP 14 industrial > controller > > > parts. > > > > > > I have a few Vax 3000, 5000, and a few others along with parts > including > > > memory. > > > > > > Those of you who have been here know I have a ton of DEC and > > > DEC-compatible parts, but no one has seen everything. I have brand new > > > disk heads, tape drive heads, alignment packs, and literally tons > more. I > > > went through over 50 backplanes a few weeks ago looking for a few > > specific > > > ones. > > > > > > Some Unibus items are also going. Probable some 11/05s, 11/34s, 11/83 > > > and/or 84s and a lot of options and boards. > > > > > > So if you need or are thinking about DEC items, feel free to send me a > > wish > > > list off list. > > > > > > I prefer phone calls and will send my number upon request. I was never > > > great at typing and I'm getting worse. > > > > > > Oh- I also trade for US and foreign coins and currency. > > > > > > Thank, Paul > > > > > > --===============4385152886633667102==-- From useddec@gmail.com Thu Jun 26 17:52:25 2025 From: Paul Anderson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Q-bus, PDP8, VAX items Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2025 12:52:07 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2484512765725124897==" --===============2484512765725124897== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Adrian, I should have the G 8016 and G8018, and both front panels if you need one, but no way to test them right now. Thanks, Paul On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 11:54 AM Adrian Stoness via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > u have spare pdp8a power supply thts good? for the one with core memory > > On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 11:39 AM Paul Anderson via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > Hi Peter, > > > > The BA11-M is the 4 x 4 box for the 11/03, and I would not recommend it > for > > an 11/23 or 23+. The BA11-SA would be my pick. > > > > I can ship them. Where are you located? > > > > Thanks, Paul > > > > On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 11:04 AM Peter Ekstrom via cctalk < > > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > Where are you located? I wouldn't mind a BA11-M box for my 11/23-PLUS. > > > I have a feeling shipping would be pretty high for one of those. > > > > > > -Peter > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 3:14 AM Paul Anderson via cctalk < > > > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > > > As many of you know I have been trying to finish organizing my Unibus > > > parts > > > > and finish building several systems for years. Other than time and my > > > > health I don't have enough space. I would like to sell, at reasonable > > > > prices, all of my q-bus parts which include 400 - 500 boards, about a > > > dozen > > > > boxes, and a lot of spare parts. I have BA11-M, BA11-N, BA11-S and a > > few > > > > BA23 boxes left. > > > > > > > > If you have an original 11/03, I have a dozen or so H780 power > > supplies, > > > > which are very hard to find. They are also used in the Vax 11/780 > front > > > > end, the > > > > RKV11-D and possibly a few other items. I can test them if I have > time, > > > but > > > > that might take awhile. > > > > > > > > I'm also taking offers on some of my 8-E and all of my 8-A items. I > > will > > > > entertain offers on the VT14 and all of the PDP 14 industrial > > controller > > > > parts. > > > > > > > > I have a few Vax 3000, 5000, and a few others along with parts > > including > > > > memory. > > > > > > > > Those of you who have been here know I have a ton of DEC and > > > > DEC-compatible parts, but no one has seen everything. I have brand > new > > > > disk heads, tape drive heads, alignment packs, and literally tons > > more. I > > > > went through over 50 backplanes a few weeks ago looking for a few > > > specific > > > > ones. > > > > > > > > Some Unibus items are also going. Probable some 11/05s, 11/34s, 11/83 > > > > and/or 84s and a lot of options and boards. > > > > > > > > So if you need or are thinking about DEC items, feel free to send me > a > > > wish > > > > list off list. > > > > > > > > I prefer phone calls and will send my number upon request. I was > never > > > > great at typing and I'm getting worse. > > > > > > > > Oh- I also trade for US and foreign coins and currency. > > > > > > > > Thank, Paul > > > > > > > > > > --===============2484512765725124897==-- From lars@nocrew.org Thu Jun 26 18:27:22 2025 From: Lars Brinkhoff To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2025 17:09:21 +0000 Message-ID: <7wecv6a0qm.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3C=5FY1=5FLs205R=5FFXyroVgawUxY8sGK265yU9sVlpIsTK0nQ?= =?utf-8?q?x99XYFaGjjZDBz9IL2CyFDTD8MrrZbfVLlBwZKEA2NBEm95HVNBYaBuiWxqp2i4?= =?utf-8?q?=3D=40virtadpt=2Enet=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7418682337501803512==" --===============7418682337501803512== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Doctor wrote: > steven(a)malikoff.com wrote: >> If you believe you can bandsaw the roll to a tape width of the >> nominal 1.000" and that any deviation in that width is less than the >> code holes 0.002" transverse allowance as defined in the ANSI >> X3.18-1967 Standard then you have either a really nice bandsaw and a >> well-made cutting jig or very very steady hand. > > I was not making a passive-aggressive suggestion. > (thank you for the reference, by the bye) There's also an ECMA standard for punched tape, that I believe has the same specifications as the ANSI standard, and is available for free in case the ANSI document isn't. https://ecma-international.org/publications-and-standards/standards/ecma-10/ It has been put in category "Withdrawn", how's that for passive agressive? If 1970 feels too fresh, there's this: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ecma/ECMA-10_1st_Edition_November_1965.pdf --===============7418682337501803512==-- From Flash688@flying-disk.com Thu Jun 26 18:32:49 2025 From: Alan Frisbie To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Q-bus, PDP8, VAX items Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2025 11:26:23 -0700 Message-ID: <9d0a9949-0aab-479c-b902-4ef9848f67ef@flying-disk.com> In-Reply-To: <175095721023.1244.13544246467478252734@classiccmp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4981997715034169626==" --===============4981997715034169626== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul Anderson wrote: > If you have an original 11/03, I have a dozen or so H780 power supplies, > which are very hard to find. They are also used in the Vax 11/780 front > end, the RKV11-D and possibly a few other items. Wow, someone who actually knows about the RKV11-D!!! I've had DEC people visit my place, see the RKV11-D, and proclaim that "DEC never made that!". Since you know what it is, can you tell us anything about how it came to be, and why it is so little-known? I bought mine back in 1978 or so from Newman Computer Exchange for my 11/03. I later added the missing wires (and chip) to enable 18-bit addressing when I got an 11/73. I haven't used it since I moved to Oregon six years ago, but it would take just a few hours to remove the RK05 head locks and plug things in, assuming that all the capacitors are still good. It came in handy to prove to the RSX development group that RSX-11M version 2.0 would run on an 11/73. :-) Alan Frisbie --===============4981997715034169626==-- From cz@alembic.crystel.com Thu Jun 26 19:27:35 2025 From: cz To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Q-bus, PDP8, VAX items Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2025 15:27:20 -0400 Message-ID: <6f4c05fd-51ab-4fa5-99c3-cef7ff31bbc4@alembic.crystel.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1406009829807662107==" --===============1406009829807662107== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The RKV11D was a weird little device, but it really made sense at the time. Technically when the 11/03 came out it was a 16 bit only device, small, and I think DEC realized they had no hard disks at all for it once it got to marketing. I mean they sold it as the 11V03 with the 4k memories, maybe a 16k MSV11-CD and an RX01 floppy drive but that was literally it for support. To give it SOMETHING they did the RKV11: They took the 4 slot RK05 controller from a Unibus system, built the bus interface board to support 16 bit Q-Bus and used the box to box interconnect cables to connect it. Quick, dirty, and got them a drive. Then they got the RL01 shipping, tried putting it on a card, and realized all the analog circuitry needed on the hex height RL11 was not going to fit on a single Q bus card. And thus came the CD interconnect. Only problem was the BA11-M was not going to fit that, so they dumped the BA11-M for the N, a 9 slot backplane with 18 bit support and CD bus so you could install the RLV11 cards. As for the 11/V03's they are pretty, make a good end table, but really fell off the rails for support, the only thing you could do was run a RXV11 system, get a RKV11, or toss it all and go to a BA11-N. Fun times. (Disclaimer, I have an 11/V03 that had the above path taken. Going to RL01's instead of the RX01's was a game changer for 4 user MUBasic) CZ --===============1406009829807662107==-- From elson@pico-systems.com Thu Jun 26 21:50:16 2025 From: Jon Elson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Q-bus, PDP8, VAX items Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2025 16:50:10 -0500 Message-ID: <38c02a66-3c8b-fe82-e4b2-345d5fde11b3@pico-systems.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5937287725880989327==" --===============5937287725880989327== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 6/26/25 11:23, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote: > I have a few BA23s left, and a few which need TLC. > > Are you in St Louis? I'll be in Springfield in July. > Yes, St. Louis area.  I don't know what TLC level you are talking about.  Not too interested in ones with bad power supplies, but if they just need some serious cleaning, etc. then that would be fine. Let me know. Thanks, Jon --===============5937287725880989327==-- From drwho@virtadpt.net Fri Jun 27 00:30:55 2025 From: The Doctor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2025 00:30:42 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1572305450.976316.1750919859588@webmail-oxcs.register.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4941595532266832455==" --===============4941595532266832455== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wednesday, June 25th, 2025 at 23:44, steven(a)malikoff.com steven--- via c= ctalk wrote: > Sure, by all means go for it. If you can make some sort of robust circumfer= ential clamp > to prevent axial sliding of the roll (think of a rolled up poster with one = conical (convex) > end and the other concave) due to imperfect rolling, and a resulting tape t= hat doesn't > exceed the nominal 1" width so it doesn't jam between the punch channel wal= ls, then you'd > be well on your way to possible success. It's funny you mention that, I do have a couple of things that fit that parti= cular bill. However, I was thinking about it some more, and there's another potential pro= blem. Earlier in the thread the topic of tractor feeding came up. While investigating my c= ollection of drill bits (because, I figured, I could mount a properly sized drill bit in a drill= press and drill clear through the roll of paper tape multiple times to make holes for this), = I realized that as you go deeper in the roll of paper toward the core, the spacing of the tra= ctor feed holes would change. They might be just far enough apart at the outset and the righ= t size, but after about a quarter of the tape is gone from the roll the holes are going t= o be closer together, in all likelihood not spaced correctly anymore (they'll be too clos= e together), and the tractor feed pins will mangle the tape. So, it's a non-starter. If a paper tape reader was the kind that used fan fold paper tape instead of = rolls of it, that might be a workable technique but I don't know where to get fanfold pape= r anymore and haven't seen such a tape reader face to face in I don't know how long. So I'= ll pin that one for later if it ever becomes relevant. The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415/510] WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/ Get thee down. Be thou funky. --===============4941595532266832455==-- From drwho@virtadpt.net Fri Jun 27 00:33:20 2025 From: The Doctor To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2025 00:33:06 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <7wecv6a0qm.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8040227659003580084==" --===============8040227659003580084== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thursday, June 26th, 2025 at 11:34, Lars Brinkhoff via cctalk wrote: > There's also an ECMA standard for punched tape, that I believe > has the same specifications as the ANSI standard, and is available > for free in case the ANSI document isn't. > https://ecma-international.org/publications-and-standards/standards/ecma-10/ Thanks! Much appreciated. > It has been put in category "Withdrawn", how's that for passive aggressive? I don't think it is. It's obsolete tech; no sense in folks worrying about it= unless they really, really have to. (Incidentally, that was because it's hard to express tone in text, and sentim= ent is very easy to misinterpret absent other cues so I was trying to clarify.) The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415/510] WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/ Get thee down. Be thou funky. --===============8040227659003580084==-- From cisin@xenosoft.com Fri Jun 27 00:49:23 2025 From: Fred Cisin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2025 17:49:16 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1572305450.976316.1750919859588@webmail-oxcs.register.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8684177520299722908==" --===============8684177520299722908== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 26 Jun 2025, steven(a)malikoff.com steven--- via cctalk wrote: > Sure, by all means go for it. If you can make some sort of robust circumfer= ential clamp > to prevent axial sliding of the roll (think of a rolled up poster with one = conical (convex) > end and the other concave) due to imperfect rolling, and a resulting tape t= hat doesn't > exceed the nominal 1" width so it doesn't jam between the punch channel wal= ls, then you'd > be well on your way to possible success. a pipe vice, or hose clamp(s) attached to a board Tightening your jig too much would daamage the outer couple of inches --===============8684177520299722908==-- From ethan.dicks@gmail.com Fri Jun 27 01:00:32 2025 From: Ethan Dicks To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Q-bus, PDP8, VAX items Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2025 21:00:08 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <9d0a9949-0aab-479c-b902-4ef9848f67ef@flying-disk.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1682200683433937665==" --===============1682200683433937665== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 2:49 PM Alan Frisbie via cctalk wrote: > Paul Anderson wrote: > > If you have an original 11/03... RKV11-D... > > Wow, someone who actually knows about the RKV11-D!!! I've had DEC > people visit my place, see the RKV11-D, and proclaim that "DEC never > made that!". Since you know what it is, can you tell us anything about > how it came to be, and why it is so little-known? Huh. I've had one for decades. I got my RKV11-D from a former boss in the late 80s. It was attached to an 11/03 in a 42" DEC rack. He just threw a bunch of working parts into an available empty cabinet, not a standard DEC configuration. I think he mostly used it for testing RK05 packs not for writing or running code. It was last used when I loaned it (and an RK05) to Jerome Fine so he could image off his stacks of RK05 packs (he was successful). That was more than a few years ago. I've thought about getting it all working again, along with an RK05 emulator to copy my own stack of 12-sector RK05 disks to modern media. > I bought mine back in 1978 or so from Newman Computer Exchange for > my 11/03. I later added the missing wires (and chip) to enable 18-bit > addressing when I got an 11/73. I need to track down the 18-bit mod instructions for mine. > I haven't used it since I moved to > Oregon six years ago, but it would take just a few hours to remove > the RK05 head locks and plug things in, assuming that all the > capacitors are still good. I also have a couple of drives that haven't been used in many years. I plan to check the positioner bulbs and the plastic elbow that tends to get brittle over time before mounting a pack. > It came in handy to prove to the RSX development group that RSX-11M > version 2.0 would run on an 11/73. :-) Fun use! -ethan --===============1682200683433937665==-- From steven@malikoff.com Fri Jun 27 01:22:46 2025 From: "steven@malikoff.com steven@malikoff.com" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2025 11:22:38 +1000 Message-ID: <984924331.1112253.1750987358200@webmail-oxcs.register.com> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3Cb=5Fq4jq1uMDKl5Uy-wZhhcG8weCdMs99y-6ECPEWk78GznE6e?= =?utf-8?q?ezadNi-1cdMeG85JtgPlaF-vImT7IdnMs9FvDxwFTqIZftxOqVWIGhfAI2s=3D=40?= =?utf-8?q?virtadpt=2Enet=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5540341981711427350==" --===============5540341981711427350== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On 06/27/2025 10:30 AM AEST The Doctor via cctalk = wrote: but I don't know where to get fanfold paper anymore I have an unfinished 3D print model for a 8-1/2" paper tape fanfolder I start= ed about 6 years ago when I first got my ALDI=20 3D printer. It consists of two drum wheels each with a circumference of 2 x 8= .5". Across the diameter, one end is a V-groove=20 and the opposite side is an embossing V, both parallel to the axis and about = 30mm wide. The two drums are identical and are=20 geared together with a 0.5 tooth-width difference in each wheel so that the e= mbosser part on one wheel meshes with the=20 indented V slot of the other.=20 The roll tape comes in from the top and passes between them, gripped by the s= urface of the drums by virtue of having a tennis racquet non slip grip tape a= pplied to the drums periphery. After hand cranking 180 degrees (half a turn) = the other drum's V=20 embosser meshes to produce the opposing fold, and so the alternating process = repeats. Under the drums is a catchment bucket.=20 It could be motorised with a LEGO XL motor. I think I overcomplicated it with radius-adjustable thumbscrew blocks for the= removeable V embosser and groove parts (to test=20 different embossing edge shapes) so I put it aside but if any interest I can = work on it again sometime it's just an OpenSCAD model. --===============5540341981711427350==-- From useddec@gmail.com Fri Jun 27 02:09:51 2025 From: Paul Anderson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Q-bus, PDP8, VAX items Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2025 21:09:34 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <850578692.2892276.1750956121467@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7603476417834201494==" --===============7603476417834201494== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Jonathan, I have the RQDX3, DELQA or DEQNA, and the M7554. Do you have a part # for the memory? I'll check for the 4000 parts, and I have a few BA23s On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 11:49 AM Jonathan Stone via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > Hello, > Do you by any chance have Vaxstation 4000 models or motherboards at > hobbyist prices? > Or anything like an inventory of your Qbus boards? > > Other than that, I'm interested in a BA23, disk controllers (RQDX3 or > SCSI), DELQA/DEQNA. > Also a KJD11-B (m7554) and some PMI memory for it, so I can run PDP-11 > diags on Qbus devices. > (The field service uvax II diagnostics on TK50 are unobtainum.) > > thanks in advance > -Jonathan > --===============7603476417834201494==-- From jeffrey@vcfed.org Fri Jun 27 05:38:09 2025 From: Jeffrey Brace To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] VCF West 2026 - Speaker List Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2025 01:37:44 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4573604057008036961==" --===============4573604057008036961== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Speaker List VCF West 2025: https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-west/ Show info: https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-west/ Ticket info: https://connect.computerhistory.org/events/1ffceb98-f556-df49-f011-424756803a= ab --===============4573604057008036961==-- From michael.99.thompson@gmail.com Fri Jun 27 06:06:50 2025 From: Michael Thompson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Q-bus, PDP8, VAX items Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2025 02:08:27 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2679074593556837323==" --===============2679074593556837323== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Do you have any TU55 ot TU56 DECtape heads? On Thu, Jun 26, 2025, 10:24 PM Paul Anderson via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Hi Peter, > > The BA11-M is the 4 x 4 box for the 11/03, and I would not recommend it for > an 11/23 or 23+. The BA11-SA would be my pick. > > I can ship them. Where are you located? > > Thanks, Paul > > On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 11:04 AM Peter Ekstrom via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > Where are you located? I wouldn't mind a BA11-M box for my 11/23-PLUS. > > I have a feeling shipping would be pretty high for one of those. > > > > -Peter > > > > On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 3:14 AM Paul Anderson via cctalk < > > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > As many of you know I have been trying to finish organizing my Unibus > > parts > > > and finish building several systems for years. Other than time and my > > > health I don't have enough space. I would like to sell, at reasonable > > > prices, all of my q-bus parts which include 400 - 500 boards, about a > > dozen > > > boxes, and a lot of spare parts. I have BA11-M, BA11-N, BA11-S and a > few > > > BA23 boxes left. > > > > > > If you have an original 11/03, I have a dozen or so H780 power > supplies, > > > which are very hard to find. They are also used in the Vax 11/780 front > > > end, the > > > RKV11-D and possibly a few other items. I can test them if I have time, > > but > > > that might take awhile. > > > > > > I'm also taking offers on some of my 8-E and all of my 8-A items. I > will > > > entertain offers on the VT14 and all of the PDP 14 industrial > controller > > > parts. > > > > > > I have a few Vax 3000, 5000, and a few others along with parts > including > > > memory. > > > > > > Those of you who have been here know I have a ton of DEC and > > > DEC-compatible parts, but no one has seen everything. I have brand new > > > disk heads, tape drive heads, alignment packs, and literally tons > more. I > > > went through over 50 backplanes a few weeks ago looking for a few > > specific > > > ones. > > > > > > Some Unibus items are also going. Probable some 11/05s, 11/34s, 11/83 > > > and/or 84s and a lot of options and boards. > > > > > > So if you need or are thinking about DEC items, feel free to send me a > > wish > > > list off list. > > > > > > I prefer phone calls and will send my number upon request. I was never > > > great at typing and I'm getting worse. > > > > > > Oh- I also trade for US and foreign coins and currency. > > > > > > Thank, Paul > > > > > > --===============2679074593556837323==-- From useddec@gmail.com Fri Jun 27 08:27:30 2025 From: Paul Anderson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] DEC VT11/VR17, BA350/BA356, "S" box boards Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2025 03:27:07 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1556529317783829072==" --===============1556529317783829072== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a quick note/ update from my earlier post. If you're looking for an option, please send me the board #. Example:A DLV11 can be a M8017, M8027, M8028, or M8043 if my memory is working tonight. My boards are basically in numeric order, and it takes time to convert option # to part # and I don't want to ship anyone the wrong part. I have a few VT11's I will finally sell, along with a (believe it or not, long story...) VR17 which now has screen rot. A few dozen BA350 and BA356 boxes and selection of power supplies and drives. 50 or so "S" box handle boards including M3108, M3116, M3127 DESQA, M3134, M5976 KZQSA, M7493, M7740 KLESI, M8086 LPV11, M8020 DPV11, M7516 DELQA, M7504 DEQNA, M7504, M7554 CPU, Non DEC and more. Also found a pile of DECMUXII , DECMUX300, decservers and that type of stuff. And something everyone needs, SC08s!!! Please excuse any typos or messed up part #s. Thanks, Paul --===============1556529317783829072==-- From classiccmp@fjl.co.uk Fri Jun 27 09:41:25 2025 From: Frank Leonhardt To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2025 10:41:02 +0100 Message-ID: <2d2f2405-2d7a-4add-b3be-4768d660b640@fjl.co.uk> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CPH0PR08MB72107C63277DBFD6C5131AD6E478A=40PH0PR08MB?= =?utf-8?q?7210=2Enamprd08=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4141083575073917316==" --===============4141083575073917316== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 24/06/2025 20:16, Wayne S wrote: > On Jun 24, 2025, at 12:10, Tony Duell wrote: >> =EF=BB=BFOn Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 8:04=E2=80=AFPM Wayne S via cctalk >> wrote: >>> There=E2=80=99s really a disconnect on between reading and punching paper= tape. >>> For making blank tape that can be used in a punch, you can cut a roll of = something down to a proper width, but the paper has to be thicker than cashi= ers paper. The real trick is that the paper has to be perforated in the middl= e before use. That=E2=80=99s how it=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cdragged=E2=80=9D thru = the punch/reader. I haven=E2=80=99t seen anyone mention how to do that. >>> >>> If you can manage to do that, then you could also oil the paper and use i= t on a punch. >> Every paper tape punch (Teletype, Friden, DEC, Facit, Data >> Dynamics...) I have punches the sprocket holes along with the data >> holes. Some need a bit of help (pull the tape by hand) to get started >> on a new roll of tape, but once it starts punching properly it will >> continue to do so until the roll runs out. >> >> -tony > Interesting. > All the ones i used, including some teletypes, needed pre-punched tape, ost= ensibly to ensure proper alignment. We used to buy pallets of prepunched tape. > > Sent from my iPhone My experience is the same as Waynes - I've never seen a punch that=20 didn't punch the sprocket hole and I've never seen one that required=20 one. Perhaps it's an American thing (reminder: I'm in the UK, where=20 Paper Tape was king). This would have been everything Creed, Elliott and=20 later Teletype (e.g. ASR33) and probably a few I can't remember. I've=20 never even seen pre-punched tape. I'm suspect some optical readers didn't require it as the tape was=20 advanced using a pinch roller until a non-null punch was received. Regards, Frank. --===============4141083575073917316==-- From artgodwin@gmail.com Fri Jun 27 11:00:56 2025 From: Adrian Godwin To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2025 12:00:36 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2d2f2405-2d7a-4add-b3be-4768d660b640@fjl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5582485247465229957==" --===============5582485247465229957== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Interesting that some readers didn't require the sprocket hole. Whilst I can appreciate that they didn't mechanically drive on it, I assumed they'd use it as a clock signal to sample the data levels. Even that could be avoided, but then a nul would be indistinguishable from the space between punch positions. Did they make nul an illegal character, or determine it using a flywheel sync ? I appreciate there were out-of-band ASCII characters such as EOT but weren't there binary format tapes too ? On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 11:29=E2=80=AFAM Frank Leonhardt via cctalk wrote: > > On 24/06/2025 20:16, Wayne S wrote: > > On Jun 24, 2025, at 12:10, Tony Duell wrote: > >> =EF=BB=BFOn Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 8:04=E2=80=AFPM Wayne S via cctalk > >> wrote: > >>> There=E2=80=99s really a disconnect on between reading and punching pap= er tape. > >>> For making blank tape that can be used in a punch, you can cut a roll o= f something down to a proper width, but the paper has to be thicker than cas= hiers paper. The real trick is that the paper has to be perforated in the mid= dle before use. That=E2=80=99s how it=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cdragged=E2=80=9D thr= u the punch/reader. I haven=E2=80=99t seen anyone mention how to do that. > >>> > >>> If you can manage to do that, then you could also oil the paper and use= it on a punch. > >> Every paper tape punch (Teletype, Friden, DEC, Facit, Data > >> Dynamics...) I have punches the sprocket holes along with the data > >> holes. Some need a bit of help (pull the tape by hand) to get started > >> on a new roll of tape, but once it starts punching properly it will > >> continue to do so until the roll runs out. > >> > >> -tony > > Interesting. > > All the ones i used, including some teletypes, needed pre-punched tape, o= stensibly to ensure proper alignment. We used to buy pallets of prepunched ta= pe. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > My experience is the same as Waynes - I've never seen a punch that > didn't punch the sprocket hole and I've never seen one that required > one. Perhaps it's an American thing (reminder: I'm in the UK, where > Paper Tape was king). This would have been everything Creed, Elliott and > later Teletype (e.g. ASR33) and probably a few I can't remember. I've > never even seen pre-punched tape. > > I'm suspect some optical readers didn't require it as the tape was > advanced using a pinch roller until a non-null punch was received. > > Regards, Frank. > --===============5582485247465229957==-- From ard.p850ug1@gmail.com Fri Jun 27 11:09:31 2025 From: Tony Duell To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2025 12:09:14 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2d2f2405-2d7a-4add-b3be-4768d660b640@fjl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5757911358331885691==" --===============5757911358331885691== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 11:29=E2=80=AFAM Frank Leonhardt via cctalk wrote: > > On 24/06/2025 20:16, Wayne S wrote: > > On Jun 24, 2025, at 12:10, Tony Duell wrote: > >> =EF=BB=BFOn Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 8:04=E2=80=AFPM Wayne S via cctalk > >> wrote: > >>> There=E2=80=99s really a disconnect on between reading and punching pap= er tape. > >>> For making blank tape that can be used in a punch, you can cut a roll o= f something down to a proper width, but the paper has to be thicker than cas= hiers paper. The real trick is that the paper has to be perforated in the mid= dle before use. That=E2=80=99s how it=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cdragged=E2=80=9D thr= u the punch/reader. I haven=E2=80=99t seen anyone mention how to do that. > >>> > >>> If you can manage to do that, then you could also oil the paper and use= it on a punch. > >> Every paper tape punch (Teletype, Friden, DEC, Facit, Data > >> Dynamics...) I have punches the sprocket holes along with the data > >> holes. Some need a bit of help (pull the tape by hand) to get started > >> on a new roll of tape, but once it starts punching properly it will > >> continue to do so until the roll runs out. > >> > >> -tony > > Interesting. > > All the ones i used, including some teletypes, needed pre-punched tape, o= stensibly to ensure proper alignment. We used to buy pallets of prepunched ta= pe. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > My experience is the same as Waynes - I've never seen a punch that > didn't punch the sprocket hole and I've never seen one that required > one. Are you mis-reading the attrbutions? I thought Wayne (in the States) said the punches he used required tape with pre-punched sprocket holes/ I (tony), in the UK, have never seen one that does. In fact, thinking about it, many Facit punches couldn't use tape with pre-punched sprocket holes. They punch the sprocket hole in the same die block as the data holes. But they feed the tape using a capstan/pinch roller. So pre-punched tape would be almost imposible to line up with the punches and keep lined up. Due to manufacturing tolerances, the tape is not going to feed by exactly 1 hole spacing (on the pre-punched tape) after each character in a unit like this. The Fact 4070 has 3 manual feed switches. One feeds totally unpunched tape. Another feeds tape with the feed holes punched. And a third feeds tape feed holes and a user-defined (by links/diodes on the control PCB) character on the data holes (the factory setting is to punch the lot). Some punches, the Teletype BRPE being an example, punch the tape, including the sprocket holes and then feed it with a sprocket a little further along the tape path. These will work on totally unpunched tape. When you load a new reel of tape you have to get it feeding, then help the tape along by hand. The first bi of the tape will be completely mis-spaced but after a couple of inches the holes will start ot align with the sprocket teeth and it'll be fne from then on. -tony --===============5757911358331885691==-- From classiccmp@fjl.co.uk Fri Jun 27 14:42:08 2025 From: Frank Leonhardt To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2025 15:41:48 +0100 Message-ID: <289d8da7-9f54-4bce-a7a3-4a0beb430506@fjl.co.uk> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1809810647696786074==" --===============1809810647696786074== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 27/06/2025 12:09, Tony Duell wrote: > Are you mis-reading the attrbutions? I thought Wayne (in the States) > said the punches he used required tape with pre-punched sprocket > holes/ > > I (tony), in the UK, have never seen one that does. In fact, thinking > about it, many Facit punches couldn't use tape with pre-punched > sprocket holes. They punch the sprocket hole in the same die block as > the data holes. But they feed the tape using a capstan/pinch roller. > So pre-punched tape would be almost imposible to line up with the > punches and keep lined up. Due to manufacturing tolerances, the tape > is not going to feed by exactly 1 hole spacing (on the pre-punched > tape) after each character in a unit like this. > > The Fact 4070 has 3 manual feed switches. One feeds totally unpunched > tape. Another feeds tape with the feed holes punched. And a third > feeds tape feed holes and a user-defined (by links/diodes on the > control PCB) character on the data holes (the factory setting is to > punch the lot). > > Some punches, the Teletype BRPE being an example, punch the tape, > including the sprocket holes and then feed it with a sprocket a little > further along the tape path. These will work on totally unpunched > tape. When you load a new reel of tape you have to get it feeding, > then help the tape along by hand. The first bi of the tape will be > completely mis-spaced but after a couple of inches the holes will > start ot align with the sprocket teeth and it'll be fne from then on. I checked and I I wasn't according t the level of >, but it's certainly confusing with all these people top posting!We agree it was Wayne (USA) who'd only used pre-punched tape and you and I in the UK had never seen it. @Wayne - any idea who made this kit? I agree with you - I don't think pre-punched would have worked in a fast punch as it wasn't moved along by a claw or anything so it'd go out of registration very quickly. My memory may not be reliable, but I certainly remember some teleprinters could backspace a tape if you made a mistake, so I guess they'd have had to tolerate pre-sprocketed tape. I just used them, so I hadn't thought how it worked before now. They must have wound back through the punch accurately so a character space could be punched a second time. I don't remember being a special punch mechanism just for DEL, but perhaps there was? --===============1809810647696786074==-- From ard.p850ug1@gmail.com Fri Jun 27 14:58:25 2025 From: Tony Duell To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2025 15:58:07 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <289d8da7-9f54-4bce-a7a3-4a0beb430506@fjl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0873741824736142213==" --===============0873741824736142213== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 3:49 PM Frank Leonhardt via cctalk wrote: > My memory may not be reliable, but I certainly remember some > teleprinters could backspace a tape if you made a mistake, so I guess > they'd have had to tolerate pre-sprocketed tape. I just used them, so I > hadn't thought how it worked before now. They must have wound back > through the punch accurately so a character space could be punched a > second time. I don't remember being a special punch mechanism just for > DEL, but perhaps there was? The Teletype model 33ASR can backspace the punch for overpunching a character. In such machines the tape is fed by a sprocket wheel, the teeth of which engage in the feed holes of the tape. This is positioned after the punch die assembly. So such a punch needs a bit of help to start it off on a new reel of unpunched tape but once it has started punching holes properly it will carry on. It could use tape with pre-punched feed holes, but equally it can use unpunched tape. -tony --===============0873741824736142213==-- From classiccmp@fjl.co.uk Fri Jun 27 15:45:54 2025 From: Frank Leonhardt To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2025 16:45:37 +0100 Message-ID: <51487d8e-ea69-4ddd-8dde-ca4900f6e959@fjl.co.uk> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8827088734398764783==" --===============8827088734398764783== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 27/06/2025 15:58, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 3:49=E2=80=AFPM Frank Leonhardt via cctalk > wrote: > >> My memory may not be reliable, but I certainly remember some >> teleprinters could backspace a tape if you made a mistake, so I guess >> they'd have had to tolerate pre-sprocketed tape. I just used them, so I >> hadn't thought how it worked before now. They must have wound back >> through the punch accurately so a character space could be punched a >> second time. I don't remember being a special punch mechanism just for >> DEL, but perhaps there was? > > The Teletype model 33ASR can backspace the punch for overpunching a charact= er. > > In such machines the tape is fed by a sprocket wheel, the teeth of > which engage in the feed holes of the tape. This is positioned after > the punch die assembly. So such a punch needs a bit of help to start > it off on a new reel of unpunched tape but once it has started > punching holes properly it will carry on. > > It could use tape with pre-punched feed holes, but equally it can use > unpunched tape. Thanks - I wasn't sure. I've actually got a few Teletype 32 and 33s in=20 my shed but I'm too scared to turn them on after 40 years to check. When=20 I was coding they were earlier Creed models (mostly). It think one was=20 an Olivetti, which had style, and an ITT branded 444 that looked like it=20 was from the 21st Century (as I imagined imagined, incorrectly, what the=20 21st would look like at the time time). I stopped using them even as a=20 printer when the FX-80 came out :-) (Alas, I only kept the Teletype=20 Corporation ones, which I kept to scavenge parts). I seem to recall backed up tape forming a loop rather than rewinding=20 onto the spool. --===============8827088734398764783==-- From mjd.bishop@emeritus-solutions.com Fri Jun 27 15:47:18 2025 From: Martin Bishop To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] EPSON 6110 Tape Punch Interface Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2025 15:47:10 +0000 Message-ID: <995e0d48dbbc4d01a0ffe157562bed10@emeritus-solutions.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2351672315001475538==" --===============2351672315001475538== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a salvaged Epson 6110 tape punch on the bench, also it's interface car= d from a Data Dynamics Zip 30. The 6110 is the shiny paper tape punch which was very common, at front left, = on TTY etc in the 70's and into the 80's I'm working on reverse engineering the Epson 6110's connector / interface, it= 's a "centronics" 24 pin. Does anyone have or know of a spec for the Epson interface, or manuals for a = system using it. The basics are plain enough 24V power, ground connections, 8b+s, all low side= drivers (54SN463's), one output (to a 7414) I presume Ready_n, and another t= wo inputs I guess Enable_n and Advance_n (or maybe Reverse). RevEng should get me there, documentation would ensure no possibility of magi= c smoke - excluding bad components. Bring up plan is: - apply 28 V and scope "connector" - button up to suitable processor; ie interpose LoSide drivers between= processor's LVTTL and the punch VMTiA Martin --===============2351672315001475538==-- From ard.p850ug1@gmail.com Fri Jun 27 16:24:42 2025 From: Tony Duell To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2025 17:24:24 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <51487d8e-ea69-4ddd-8dde-ca4900f6e959@fjl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4979800671034890047==" --===============4979800671034890047== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 5:09 PM Frank Leonhardt via cctalk wrote: > Thanks - I wasn't sure. I've actually got a few Teletype 32 and 33s in > my shed but I'm too scared to turn them on after 40 years to check. When > I was coding they were earlier Creed models (mostly). It think one was > an Olivetti, which had style, and an ITT branded 444 that looked like it The Creed 444 scanned manual I have says 'ITT Creed' on it (and the address is given as Brighton, not Croydon). I think ITT owned Creed at that pont The Creed 444 can also backspace the punch (and will use unpunched tape). > was from the 21st Century (as I imagined imagined, incorrectly, what the > 21st would look like at the time time). I stopped using them even as a > printer when the FX-80 came out :-) (Alas, I only kept the Teletype > Corporation ones, which I kept to scavenge parts). > > I seem to recall backed up tape forming a loop rather than rewinding > onto the spool. Yes, the main use of this facility was to immediately correct a typo by backspacing the tape and overpunching the incorrect character with all holes. You didn't need to rewind the tape if you only have 1/10" of it to bother about. -tony --===============4979800671034890047==-- From d44617665@hotmail.com Fri Jun 27 17:12:02 2025 From: David Wise To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2025 17:11:48 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8401302374720710010==" --===============8401302374720710010== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A machine that punches the sprocket hole can work with pre-punched tape for o= ne or a few cycles, but long-term it will punch an elongated hole and drift o= ut of registration. CTI warns about it in the manual for the 173A =E2=80=9CT= ape-Ard=E2=80=9D I have. (By the way the 173A uses the same Friden engine th= at IBM OEMed for the 1620=E2=80=99s 1624 punch.) Some readers backspace but only as a side effect. For example the Remex stepp= er motor based machines. In high speed mode they stop one space past the targ= et then backspace. Dave Wise > On Jun 27, 2025, at 9:34 AM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 5:09=E2=80=AFPM Frank Leonhardt via cctalk > wrote: >=20 >> Thanks - I wasn't sure. I've actually got a few Teletype 32 and 33s in >> my shed but I'm too scared to turn them on after 40 years to check. When >> I was coding they were earlier Creed models (mostly). It think one was >> an Olivetti, which had style, and an ITT branded 444 that looked like it >=20 > The Creed 444 scanned manual I have says 'ITT Creed' on it (and the > address is given as Brighton, not Croydon). I think ITT owned Creed at > that pont >=20 > The Creed 444 can also backspace the punch (and will use unpunched tape). >=20 >=20 >> was from the 21st Century (as I imagined imagined, incorrectly, what the >> 21st would look like at the time time). I stopped using them even as a >> printer when the FX-80 came out :-) (Alas, I only kept the Teletype >> Corporation ones, which I kept to scavenge parts). >>=20 >> I seem to recall backed up tape forming a loop rather than rewinding >> onto the spool. >=20 > Yes, the main use of this facility was to immediately correct a typo > by backspacing the tape and overpunching the incorrect character with > all holes. You didn't need to rewind the tape if you only have 1/10" > of it to bother about. >=20 > -tony --===============8401302374720710010==-- From frank@fjl.co.uk Fri Jun 27 19:00:15 2025 From: Frank Leonhardt To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2025 10:39:53 +0100 Message-ID: <20fba1ec-a602-453c-8e7e-885874a33048@fjl.co.uk> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CPH0PR08MB72107C63277DBFD6C5131AD6E478A=40PH0PR08MB?= =?utf-8?q?7210=2Enamprd08=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8001379368602955879==" --===============8001379368602955879== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 24/06/2025 20:16, Wayne S wrote: > On Jun 24, 2025, at 12:10, Tony Duell wrote: >> =EF=BB=BFOn Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 8:04=E2=80=AFPM Wayne S via cctalk >> wrote: >>> There=E2=80=99s really a disconnect on between reading and punching paper= tape. >>> For making blank tape that can be used in a punch, you can cut a roll of = something down to a proper width, but the paper has to be thicker than cashi= ers paper. The real trick is that the paper has to be perforated in the middl= e before use. That=E2=80=99s how it=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cdragged=E2=80=9D thru = the punch/reader. I haven=E2=80=99t seen anyone mention how to do that. >>> >>> If you can manage to do that, then you could also oil the paper and use i= t on a punch. >> Every paper tape punch (Teletype, Friden, DEC, Facit, Data >> Dynamics...) I have punches the sprocket holes along with the data >> holes. Some need a bit of help (pull the tape by hand) to get started >> on a new roll of tape, but once it starts punching properly it will >> continue to do so until the roll runs out. >> >> -tony > Interesting. > All the ones i used, including some teletypes, needed pre-punched tape, ost= ensibly to ensure proper alignment. We used to buy pallets of prepunched tape. > > Sent from my iPhone My experience is the same as Waynes - I've never seen a punch that=20 didn't punch the sprocket hole and I've never seen one that required=20 one. Perhaps it's an American thing (reminder: I'm in the UK, where=20 Paper Tape was king). This would have been everything Creed, Elliott and=20 later Teletype (e.g. ASR33) and probably a few I can't remember. I've=20 never even seen pre-punched tape. I'm suspect some optical readers didn't require it as the tape was=20 advanced using a pinch roller until a non-null punch was received. Regards, Frank. --===============8001379368602955879==-- From frank@fjl.co.uk Fri Jun 27 19:00:24 2025 From: Frank Leonhardt To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2025 15:27:11 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3411149877588241215==" --===============3411149877588241215== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 27/06/2025 12:00, Adrian Godwin via cctalk wrote: > Interesting that some readers didn't require the sprocket hole. Whilst > I can appreciate that they didn't mechanically drive on it, I assumed > they'd use it as a clock signal to sample the data levels. Even that > could be avoided, but then a nul would be indistinguishable from the > space between punch positions. > > Did they make nul an illegal character, or determine it using a > flywheel sync ? I appreciate there were out-of-band ASCII characters > such as EOT but weren't there binary format tapes too ? I'm not sure they didn't - it was something I should have found out fifty years ago. And the same readers coped with 5 and 8 hole tapes, where the sprocket is in a different position. Where there were no holes other than the sprocket they flew through. I don't think it was necessary to read a NUL, but it might have been. And there may have been different handling for the eight and five bit. I shall have to ask Mr Onion! If anyone wants to theorise, the roller was controlled by a solenoid and could move the tape forward one character at a time, or apparently free-run. In other words it didn't seem to unload and load on each character. At the time I just used it - I didn't think that much about it. --===============3411149877588241215==-- From wayne.sudol@hotmail.com Fri Jun 27 19:14:41 2025 From: Wayne S To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2025 19:14:28 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CCYXPR84MB3515CB40AE4B3C63C6C91404AE45A=40CYXPR84MB?= =?utf-8?q?3515=2ENAMPRD84=2EPROD=2EOUTLOOK=2ECOM=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4890335145428015979==" --===============4890335145428015979== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My only recollection of the prepunched sprocket hole tapes was that we ( larg= e newspaper) got the tapes in a box of 12 reels. The reels were joined togeth= er, so the end of one reel was joined to the start of the next reel. I do rem= ember seeing boxes lying at the base of Linotype machines. I think they were = also at the base of teletypes that some of the typists used to generate the f= eed to the Linos. This was in 1973 when i interned for a summer. Sorry, but m= emory is fuzzy. I do remember that there were many pallets of the stuff. The= paper was had started phasing out the Linotype machines but they still had o= ver 60 of them.=20 Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 27, 2025, at 10:20, David Wise via cctalk = wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFA machine that punches the sprocket hole can work with pre-punched= tape for one or a few cycles, but long-term it will punch an elongated hole = and drift out of registration. CTI warns about it in the manual for the 173A= =E2=80=9CTape-Ard=E2=80=9D I have. (By the way the 173A uses the same Fride= n engine that IBM OEMed for the 1620=E2=80=99s 1624 punch.) >=20 > Some readers backspace but only as a side effect. For example the Remex ste= pper motor based machines. In high speed mode they stop one space past the ta= rget then backspace. >=20 > Dave Wise >=20 >>> On Jun 27, 2025, at 9:34 AM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: >>>=20 >>> =EF=BB=BFOn Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 5:09=E2=80=AFPM Frank Leonhardt via ccta= lk >>> wrote: >>>=20 >>> Thanks - I wasn't sure. I've actually got a few Teletype 32 and 33s in >>> my shed but I'm too scared to turn them on after 40 years to check. When >>> I was coding they were earlier Creed models (mostly). It think one was >>> an Olivetti, which had style, and an ITT branded 444 that looked like it >>=20 >> The Creed 444 scanned manual I have says 'ITT Creed' on it (and the >> address is given as Brighton, not Croydon). I think ITT owned Creed at >> that pont >>=20 >> The Creed 444 can also backspace the punch (and will use unpunched tape). >>=20 >>=20 >>> was from the 21st Century (as I imagined imagined, incorrectly, what the >>> 21st would look like at the time time). I stopped using them even as a >>> printer when the FX-80 came out :-) (Alas, I only kept the Teletype >>> Corporation ones, which I kept to scavenge parts). >>>=20 >>> I seem to recall backed up tape forming a loop rather than rewinding >>> onto the spool. >>=20 >> Yes, the main use of this facility was to immediately correct a typo >> by backspacing the tape and overpunching the incorrect character with >> all holes. You didn't need to rewind the tape if you only have 1/10" >> of it to bother about. >>=20 >> -tony --===============4890335145428015979==-- From classiccmp@crash.com Fri Jun 27 19:56:59 2025 From: Steven M Jones To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: VCF West August 1-2, 2025 - Mountain View, California Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2025 12:30:30 -0700 Message-ID: <6d2d2454-9f5a-437e-b1c4-b40f1364ea94@crash.com> In-Reply-To: <20250622145337.1D43F877F3@classiccmp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1796922370014015613==" --===============1796922370014015613== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 6/22/25 7:12 AM, John Foust via cctalk wrote: > At 09:18 PM 3/11/2025, Jeffrey Brace via cctalk wrote: >> We're partnering with the Sacramento Amiga Computer Club and AmiWest to >> celebrate the 40th anniversary of the Amiga and other special guests. > I'm considering attending this Amiga 40th anniversary celebration. > > [...] > > Who else might attend? I'll be exhibiting a different computer celebrating it's 40th anniversary - the Tektronix 6130. Have one running, may have a second open and on display, and some other NS32000-based goodies. --S. --===============1796922370014015613==-- From ard.p850ug1@gmail.com Sat Jun 28 02:37:21 2025 From: Tony Duell To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2025 03:37:04 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5898577849064308142==" --===============5898577849064308142== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 8:39 PM Adrian Godwin via cctalk wrote: > > Interesting that some readers didn't require the sprocket hole. Whilst I have never seen a paper tape reader that didn't use the sprocket hole as some kind of reference. Either by driving the tape using it or by detecting it along with the data holes. > I can appreciate that they didn't mechanically drive on it, I assumed > they'd use it as a clock signal to sample the data levels. Even that > could be avoided, but then a nul would be indistinguishable from the > space between punch positions. > > Did they make nul an illegal character, or determine it using a > flywheel sync ? I appreciate there were out-of-band ASCII characters > such as EOT but weren't there binary format tapes too ? Card readers (a totally blank column is legal on a normal 80 column card) took a reference from the leading edge of the card and re-synced whenever holes were found (see the Documation manuals on bitsavers, for example). But paper tape? You could re-sync on the data holes and hope for the best but why on earth would anyone bother when every paper tape has the sprocket holes? If a paper tape reader that doesn't need sprocket holes exists, could somebody post the make/model and preferably a link to a manual for it. -tony --===============5898577849064308142==-- From ard.p850ug1@gmail.com Sat Jun 28 02:56:05 2025 From: Tony Duell To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Is there a more modern replacement for paper tape punch/reader Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2025 03:55:44 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4677294600823023976==" --===============4677294600823023976== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 10:49 PM Frank Leonhardt via cctalk wrote: > > I'm not sure they didn't - it was something I should have found out > fifty years ago. And the same readers coped with 5 and 8 hole tapes, > where the sprocket is in a different position. Actually it isn't. It's 3 data holes from one edge of the tape in both cases. So take that edge as one reference and have an adustable guide for the other edge > Where there were no holes > other than the sprocket they flew through. I don't think it was > necessary to read a NUL, but it might have been. And there may have been > different handling for the eight and five bit. I shall have to ask Mr Onion! My guess is that the machine it was connected to ignored nuls so it could run the reader flat out, but other caracters had to be processed. > > If anyone wants to theorise, the roller was controlled by a solenoid and > could move the tape forward one character at a time, or apparently > free-run. In other words it didn't seem to unload and load on each > character. At the time I just used it - I didn't think that much about it. This sounds like an Elliot optical reader, or maybe a Trend. Those can run continously if you engage the pinch roller solenoid, alternatively you can control the solenoid (and the brake) to step the tape a character at a time. And FWIW both of those readers need sprocket holes. -tony --===============4677294600823023976==-- From useddec@gmail.com Sat Jun 28 05:36:35 2025 From: Paul Anderson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Q-bus, PDP8, VAX items Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2025 00:36:19 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <9d0a9949-0aab-479c-b902-4ef9848f67ef@flying-disk.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0762969741679306336==" --===============0762969741679306336== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Alan, One of my old field service accounts had one on their 11/03. There aren't many around, and mine is buried here somewhere. Thanks, Paul On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 1:39 PM Alan Frisbie via cctalk < cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > Paul Anderson wrote: > > > If you have an original 11/03, I have a dozen or so H780 power supplies, > > which are very hard to find. They are also used in the Vax 11/780 front > > end, the RKV11-D and possibly a few other items. > > Wow, someone who actually knows about the RKV11-D!!! I've had DEC > people visit my place, see the RKV11-D, and proclaim that "DEC never > made that!". Since you know what it is, can you tell us anything about > how it came to be, and why it is so little-known? > > I bought mine back in 1978 or so from Newman Computer Exchange for > my 11/03. I later added the missing wires (and chip) to enable 18-bit > addressing when I got an 11/73. I haven't used it since I moved to > Oregon six years ago, but it would take just a few hours to remove > the RK05 head locks and plug things in, assuming that all the > capacitors are still good. > > It came in handy to prove to the RSX development group that RSX-11M > version 2.0 would run on an 11/73. :-) > > Alan Frisbie > > > --===============0762969741679306336==-- From elson@pico-systems.com Sat Jun 28 14:50:23 2025 From: Jon Elson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Q-bus, PDP8, VAX items Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2025 09:50:12 -0500 Message-ID: <645a58b2-25b1-85dd-2527-9e62ad84e473@pico-systems.com> In-Reply-To: <38c02a66-3c8b-fe82-e4b2-345d5fde11b3@pico-systems.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5459226823923161018==" --===============5459226823923161018== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Paul, I just wanted to make sure you saw my message, I haven't seen a reply.  You mentioned coming by this area, and I didn't want to miss the opportunity to get one of your BA23 boxes. On 6/26/25 16:50, Jon Elson wrote: > On 6/26/25 11:23, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote: >> I have a few BA23s left, and a few which need TLC. >> >> Are you in St Louis? I'll be in Springfield in July. >> > Yes, St. Louis area.  I don't know what TLC level you are > talking about.  Not too interested in ones with bad power > supplies, but if they just need some serious cleaning, > etc. then that would be fine. > > Let me know. > > Thanks, > > Jon > --===============5459226823923161018==-- From useddec@gmail.com Sat Jun 28 18:38:31 2025 From: Paul Anderson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Q-bus, PDP8, VAX items Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2025 13:38:15 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <645a58b2-25b1-85dd-2527-9e62ad84e473@pico-systems.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0389622016620598997==" --===============0389622016620598997== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jon, It's been a bit busy here. I will be in Springfield, IL on Sunday 27 july till around 3pm. Can you make up a list of anything else you want and call me any night? Thanks, Paul 217 766 7690 On Sat, Jun 28, 2025 at 9:59=E2=80=AFAM Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > Paul, > I just wanted to make sure you saw my message, I haven't > seen a reply. You mentioned coming by this area, and I > didn't want to miss the opportunity to get one of your BA23 > boxes. > > On 6/26/25 16:50, Jon Elson wrote: > > On 6/26/25 11:23, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote: > >> I have a few BA23s left, and a few which need TLC. > >> > >> Are you in St Louis? I'll be in Springfield in July. > >> > > Yes, St. Louis area. I don't know what TLC level you are > > talking about. Not too interested in ones with bad power > > supplies, but if they just need some serious cleaning, > > etc. then that would be fine. > > > > Let me know. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jon > > > > --===============0389622016620598997==-- From elson@pico-systems.com Sat Jun 28 23:28:19 2025 From: Jon Elson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Q-bus, PDP8, VAX items Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2025 18:28:12 -0500 Message-ID: <8fe6423e-c1a1-90be-bfa3-415d07092d54@pico-systems.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6765408192585555309==" --===============6765408192585555309== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 6/28/25 13:38, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote: > Hi Jon, > > It's been a bit busy here. > > I will be in Springfield, IL on Sunday 27 july till around 3pm. > > Can you make up a list of anything else you want and call me any night? > Well, I'd like a BA23 set up for MicroVAX, (I do have a KA630 cabinet kit) and maybe a DHV11 cabinet kit (I think I have one that is massively corroded).  I also have the DHV11 Q-bus card.  I think I have everything else I will need.  Would you want me to meet you in Springfield, IL ? Thanks very much. Jon --===============6765408192585555309==-- From useddec@gmail.com Sun Jun 29 06:35:54 2025 From: Paul Anderson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Q-bus, PDP8, VAX items Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2025 01:35:35 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8fe6423e-c1a1-90be-bfa3-415d07092d54@pico-systems.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6278781996130458132==" --===============6278781996130458132== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jon, I get down to Springfield , IL 4 or so times a year, and now down to Gillespie, a little south of Springfield in March, all for coin shows. That is usually as close as I get to St Louis. It will probably cost the same as a tank of gas to ship it, but it would save me the trouble of boxing it. I'll be at the coin show till about 3, but anytime after 1 should work. I contacted someone on the list about testing/repairing power supplies and am waiting to hear from him so I don't know how long that will take. I have enough going on and don't want to have to fool around with them myself. If he tests them he should have them done by VCF. You are more than welcome to stop here and look for things by appt on the way to or from VCF. Any thoughts? I'll keep you posted. Thanks, Paul On Sat, Jun 28, 2025 at 6:34=E2=80=AFPM Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > On 6/28/25 13:38, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote: > > Hi Jon, > > > > It's been a bit busy here. > > > > I will be in Springfield, IL on Sunday 27 july till around 3pm. > > > > Can you make up a list of anything else you want and call me any night? > > > Well, I'd like a BA23 set up for MicroVAX, (I do have a > KA630 cabinet kit) and maybe a DHV11 cabinet kit (I think I > have one that is massively corroded). I also have the DHV11 > Q-bus card. I think I have everything else I will need. > Would you want me to meet you in Springfield, IL ? > > Thanks very much. > > Jon > > --===============6278781996130458132==-- From useddec@gmail.com Sun Jun 29 09:05:28 2025 From: Paul Anderson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] DEC items: update Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2025 04:05:01 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1623484189419240620==" --===============1623484189419240620== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Front panels: I have both 8-A, KY11-LA and -LB for 11/04, /34, one each 11/70 RDC remote diag con, corporate (blue/blue), and regular. I think there is an 11/40 with a 11/35 silkscreen. I have to go through the 8-E, F, and Ms. The last dual extender is on hold, one quad is left, a few hex, a comet (730 or 750 I think), and a 780. Also a few 11/04 and 34 in BA11-L, maybe a -K, and a few 11/83s. I think most of these are systems, not just boxes. The printers include LA12, LA34, LA36, and LA120 and parts for most. There are several hundred non-DEC boards, and a lot of core memory. I'm still looking for the rest of the simms. At some point, I'll be cutting the fingers off of boards no one wants. If you are interested in any qbus or unibus boards for chips, let me know. I can bring items to VCFMW to drop off there. There are a lot of people who drive in from different parts of the country who might be willing to work something out for some gas money. Thanks, Paul --===============1623484189419240620==-- From elson@pico-systems.com Sun Jun 29 14:32:46 2025 From: Jon Elson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Q-bus, PDP8, VAX items Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2025 09:32:37 -0500 Message-ID: <1fcdbff7-2f7e-60df-f264-a4d1fdc6fb92@pico-systems.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7810540982080282345==" --===============7810540982080282345== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 6/29/25 01:35, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote: > Hi Jon, > > I get down to Springfield , IL 4 or so times a year, and now down to > Gillespie, a little south of Springfield in March, all for coin shows. That > is usually as close as I get to St Louis. It will probably cost the same > as a tank of gas to ship it, but it would save me the trouble of boxing it. > I'll be at the coin show till about 3, but anytime after 1 should work. > > I contacted someone on the list about testing/repairing power supplies and > am waiting to hear from him so I don't know how long that will take. I have > enough going on and don't want to have to fool around with them myself. If > he tests them he should have them done by VCF. > > You are more than welcome to stop here and look for things by appt on the > way to or from VCF. > Well, I was hoping to have a box that I could just plug some cards into and have a system that would boot up to show at the VCF MW.  I'm not clear what state your BA23 box is in.  If you could give me some more info on the condition, that would help.  (Maybe I should just plan to have this working for NEXT year.) Thanks, Jon --===============7810540982080282345==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Sun Jun 29 17:54:43 2025 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC items: update Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2025 13:46:16 -0400 Message-ID: <3C58B12D-CA92-4BEE-A1BA-53A119BF0FAB@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0157161409945833608==" --===============0157161409945833608== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Jun 29, 2025, at 5:05=E2=80=AFAM, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote: >=20 > Front panels: I have both 8-A, KY11-LA and -LB for 11/04, /34, one each > 11/70 RDC remote diag con, corporate (blue/blue), and regular. I think > there is an 11/40 with a 11/35 silkscreen. I have to go through the 8-E, F, > and Ms. >=20 > The last dual extender is on hold, one quad is left, a few hex, a comet > (730 or 750 I think), ... "Comet" was the code name for the 750 (the 780 was "star" which is why the VM= S system library file name is "starlet"). paul --===============0157161409945833608==-- From wayne.sudol@hotmail.com Sun Jun 29 18:36:54 2025 From: Wayne S To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC items: update Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2025 18:36:41 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3C58B12D-CA92-4BEE-A1BA-53A119BF0FAB@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2329526047154321705==" --===============2329526047154321705== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Paul, FYI, I don=E2=80=99t know if you monitor all your rmail, but i sent you= some invites to some classic computer discords where people will really want= your boards to complete their systems.=20 Wayne Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 29, 2025, at 11:04, Paul Koning via cctalk = wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF >=20 >> On Jun 29, 2025, at 5:05=E2=80=AFAM, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote: >>=20 >> Front panels: I have both 8-A, KY11-LA and -LB for 11/04, /34, one each >> 11/70 RDC remote diag con, corporate (blue/blue), and regular. I think >> there is an 11/40 with a 11/35 silkscreen. I have to go through the 8-E, F, >> and Ms. >>=20 >> The last dual extender is on hold, one quad is left, a few hex, a comet >> (730 or 750 I think), ... >=20 > "Comet" was the code name for the 750 (the 780 was "star" which is why the = VMS system library file name is "starlet"). >=20 > paul --===============2329526047154321705==-- From useddec@gmail.com Sun Jun 29 19:22:24 2025 From: Paul Anderson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: Q-bus, PDP8, VAX items Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2025 14:22:05 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1fcdbff7-2f7e-60df-f264-a4d1fdc6fb92@pico-systems.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3262635707667933679==" --===============3262635707667933679== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jon, That's why I want to send them out to be tested. I'm just not how long it will take. Thanks, Paul On Sun, Jun 29, 2025 at 9:39=E2=80=AFAM Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > On 6/29/25 01:35, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote: > > Hi Jon, > > > > I get down to Springfield , IL 4 or so times a year, and now down to > > Gillespie, a little south of Springfield in March, all for coin shows. > That > > is usually as close as I get to St Louis. It will probably cost the same > > as a tank of gas to ship it, but it would save me the trouble of boxing > it. > > I'll be at the coin show till about 3, but anytime after 1 should work. > > > > I contacted someone on the list about testing/repairing power supplies > and > > am waiting to hear from him so I don't know how long that will take. I > have > > enough going on and don't want to have to fool around with them myself. > If > > he tests them he should have them done by VCF. > > > > You are more than welcome to stop here and look for things by appt on the > > way to or from VCF. > > > Well, I was hoping to have a box that I could just plug some > cards into and have a system that would boot up to show at > the VCF MW. I'm not clear what state your BA23 box is in. > If you could give me some more info on the condition, that > would help. (Maybe I should just plan to have this working > for NEXT year.) > > Thanks, > > Jon > > --===============3262635707667933679==-- From jacob.ritorto@gmail.com Mon Jun 30 17:18:14 2025 From: Jacob Ritorto To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC items: update Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2025 13:17:56 -0400 Message-ID: <98B7CF12-2F44-4E37-B84C-2C1D53529912@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=3CCO1PR08MB7208BFB926C293D98B8A0FDEE447A=40CO1PR08MB?= =?utf-8?q?7208=2Enamprd08=2Eprod=2Eoutlook=2Ecom=3E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7595820500751294469==" --===============7595820500751294469== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=E2=80=99ve been wanting an 11/40. What=E2=80=99re you asking for yours? Doe= s it run or is it at least =E2=80=9Call there?=E2=80=9D Thx Jake=20 > On Jun 29, 2025, at 14:44, Wayne S via cctalk wro= te: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFPaul, FYI, I don=E2=80=99t know if you monitor all your rmail, but= i sent you some invites to some classic computer discords where people will = really want your boards to complete their systems. >=20 > Wayne > Sent from my iPhone >=20 >> On Jun 29, 2025, at 11:04, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >>=20 >> =EF=BB=BF >>=20 >>>> On Jun 29, 2025, at 5:05=E2=80=AFAM, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote: >>>=20 >>> Front panels: I have both 8-A, KY11-LA and -LB for 11/04, /34, one each >>> 11/70 RDC remote diag con, corporate (blue/blue), and regular. I think >>> there is an 11/40 with a 11/35 silkscreen. I have to go through the 8-E, = F, >>> and Ms. >>>=20 >>> The last dual extender is on hold, one quad is left, a few hex, a comet >>> (730 or 750 I think), ... >>=20 >> "Comet" was the code name for the 750 (the 780 was "star" which is why the= VMS system library file name is "starlet"). >>=20 >> paul --===============7595820500751294469==-- From uban@ubanproductions.com Mon Jun 30 17:47:55 2025 From: Tom Uban To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC items: update Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2025 12:47:49 -0500 Message-ID: <1806818c-0c58-46d2-8e64-3bef4f855daf@ubanproductions.com> In-Reply-To: <98B7CF12-2F44-4E37-B84C-2C1D53529912@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4263077854013169649==" --===============4263077854013169649== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have an 11/40 in the 10-1/2" chassis, along with some other 11s etc. --tom On 6/30/25 12:17, Jacob Ritorto via cctalk wrote: > I=E2=80=99ve been wanting an 11/40. What=E2=80=99re you asking for yours? D= oes it run or is it at least =E2=80=9Call there?=E2=80=9D > > Thx > Jake > >> On Jun 29, 2025, at 14:44, Wayne S via cctalk wr= ote: >> >> =EF=BB=BFPaul, FYI, I don=E2=80=99t know if you monitor all your rmail, bu= t i sent you some invites to some classic computer discords where people will= really want your boards to complete their systems. >> >> Wayne >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jun 29, 2025, at 11:04, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >>> >>> =EF=BB=BF >>> >>>>> On Jun 29, 2025, at 5:05=E2=80=AFAM, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote: >>>> Front panels: I have both 8-A, KY11-LA and -LB for 11/04, /34, one each >>>> 11/70 RDC remote diag con, corporate (blue/blue), and regular. I think >>>> there is an 11/40 with a 11/35 silkscreen. I have to go through the 8-E,= F, >>>> and Ms. >>>> >>>> The last dual extender is on hold, one quad is left, a few hex, a comet >>>> (730 or 750 I think), ... >>> "Comet" was the code name for the 750 (the 780 was "star" which is why th= e VMS system library file name is "starlet"). >>> >>> paul --===============4263077854013169649==-- From cz@alembic.crystel.com Mon Jun 30 19:03:21 2025 From: cz To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC items: update Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2025 15:03:15 -0400 Message-ID: <055547a9-c788-4518-8bb5-a451b19b8e1c@alembic.crystel.com> In-Reply-To: <1806818c-0c58-46d2-8e64-3bef4f855daf@ubanproductions.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5150310915040355648==" --===============5150310915040355648== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Is that the desktop one? Always wanted one of those, they're cute. But I thought those were all 11/35's? C On 6/30/2025 1:47 PM, Tom Uban via cctalk wrote: > I have an 11/40 in the 10-1/2" chassis, along with some other 11s etc. > > --tom > > On 6/30/25 12:17, Jacob Ritorto via cctalk wrote: >> I’ve been wanting an 11/40. What’re you asking for yours? Does it run >> or is it at least “all there?” >> >> Thx >> Jake >> >>> On Jun 29, 2025, at 14:44, Wayne S via cctalk >>> wrote: >>> >>> Paul, FYI, I don’t know if you monitor all your rmail, but i sent >>> you some invites to some classic computer discords where people will >>> really want your boards to complete their systems. >>> >>> Wayne >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Jun 29, 2025, at 11:04, Paul Koning via cctalk >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>  >>>> >>>>>> On Jun 29, 2025, at 5:05 AM, Paul Anderson via cctalk >>>>>> wrote: >>>>> Front panels: I have both 8-A, KY11-LA and -LB for 11/04, /34, one >>>>> each >>>>> 11/70 RDC remote diag con, corporate (blue/blue), and regular. I think >>>>> there is an 11/40 with a 11/35 silkscreen. I have to go through the >>>>> 8-E, F, >>>>> and Ms. >>>>> >>>>> The last dual extender is on hold, one quad is left, a few hex, a >>>>> comet >>>>> (730 or 750 I think), ... >>>> "Comet" was the code name for the 750 (the 780 was "star" which is >>>> why the VMS system library file name is "starlet"). >>>> >>>>    paul > --===============5150310915040355648==-- From paulkoning@comcast.net Mon Jun 30 20:15:11 2025 From: Paul Koning To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC items: update Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2025 16:14:51 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <055547a9-c788-4518-8bb5-a451b19b8e1c@alembic.crystel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6110190873694841364==" --===============6110190873694841364== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 11/35 is the model number for OEM market 11/40 machines. paul > On Jun 30, 2025, at 3:03=E2=80=AFPM, cz via cctalk wrote: >=20 > Is that the desktop one? Always wanted one of those, they're cute. But I th= ought those were all 11/35's? >=20 > C >=20 > On 6/30/2025 1:47 PM, Tom Uban via cctalk wrote: >> I have an 11/40 in the 10-1/2" chassis, along with some other 11s etc. >> --tom >> On 6/30/25 12:17, Jacob Ritorto via cctalk wrote: >>> I=E2=80=99ve been wanting an 11/40. What=E2=80=99re you asking for yours?= Does it run or is it at least =E2=80=9Call there?=E2=80=9D >>>=20 >>> Thx >>> Jake >>>=20 >>>> On Jun 29, 2025, at 14:44, Wayne S via cctalk = wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> =EF=BB=BFPaul, FYI, I don=E2=80=99t know if you monitor all your rmail, = but i sent you some invites to some classic computer discords where people wi= ll really want your boards to complete their systems. >>>>=20 >>>> Wayne >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>=20 >>>>> On Jun 29, 2025, at 11:04, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> =EF=BB=BF >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> On Jun 29, 2025, at 5:05=E2=80=AFAM, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote: >>>>>> Front panels: I have both 8-A, KY11-LA and -LB for 11/04, /34, one each >>>>>> 11/70 RDC remote diag con, corporate (blue/blue), and regular. I think >>>>>> there is an 11/40 with a 11/35 silkscreen. I have to go through the 8-= E, F, >>>>>> and Ms. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> The last dual extender is on hold, one quad is left, a few hex, a comet >>>>>> (730 or 750 I think), ... >>>>> "Comet" was the code name for the 750 (the 780 was "star" which is why = the VMS system library file name is "starlet"). >>>>>=20 >>>>> paul >=20 --===============6110190873694841364==-- From cz@alembic.crystel.com Mon Jun 30 21:40:55 2025 From: cz To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC items: update Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2025 17:40:43 -0400 Message-ID: <5ae8f3eb-c5a2-471a-bee1-be0d062dafb7@alembic.crystel.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0702843683540031553==" --===============0702843683540031553== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hm. Today I learned something new. Always thought the 11/40's only came=20 in the big slide out rack mounts. Although if you're selling an OEM=20 system a 1.5 inch box is all you need so that's probably why all the=20 11/35's I've seen are small. C On 6/30/2025 4:14 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > 11/35 is the model number for OEM market 11/40 machines. >=20 > paul >=20 >> On Jun 30, 2025, at 3:03=E2=80=AFPM, cz via cctalk wrote: >> >> Is that the desktop one? Always wanted one of those, they're cute. But I t= hought those were all 11/35's? >> >> C >> >> On 6/30/2025 1:47 PM, Tom Uban via cctalk wrote: >>> I have an 11/40 in the 10-1/2" chassis, along with some other 11s etc. >>> --tom >>> On 6/30/25 12:17, Jacob Ritorto via cctalk wrote: >>>> I=E2=80=99ve been wanting an 11/40. What=E2=80=99re you asking for yours= ? Does it run or is it at least =E2=80=9Call there?=E2=80=9D >>>> >>>> Thx >>>> Jake >>>> >>>>> On Jun 29, 2025, at 14:44, Wayne S via cctalk = wrote: >>>>> >>>>> =EF=BB=BFPaul, FYI, I don=E2=80=99t know if you monitor all your rmail,= but i sent you some invites to some classic computer discords where people w= ill really want your boards to complete their systems. >>>>> >>>>> Wayne >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 29, 2025, at 11:04, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> =EF=BB=BF >>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 2025, at 5:05=E2=80=AFAM, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote: >>>>>>> Front panels: I have both 8-A, KY11-LA and -LB for 11/04, /34, one ea= ch >>>>>>> 11/70 RDC remote diag con, corporate (blue/blue), and regular. I think >>>>>>> there is an 11/40 with a 11/35 silkscreen. I have to go through the 8= -E, F, >>>>>>> and Ms. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The last dual extender is on hold, one quad is left, a few hex, a com= et >>>>>>> (730 or 750 I think), ... >>>>>> "Comet" was the code name for the 750 (the 780 was "star" which is why= the VMS system library file name is "starlet"). >>>>>> >>>>>> paul >> >=20 --===============0702843683540031553==-- From useddec@gmail.com Mon Jun 30 21:53:20 2025 From: Paul Anderson To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC items: update Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2025 16:53:03 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5ae8f3eb-c5a2-471a-bee1-be0d062dafb7@alembic.crystel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3158267080847110076==" --===============3158267080847110076== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The 11/35s came in a 10 1/2 box, either the BA11-D, or the BA11-K, which most 11/34s used. On Mon, Jun 30, 2025 at 4:49=E2=80=AFPM cz via cctalk wrote: > Hm. Today I learned something new. Always thought the 11/40's only came > in the big slide out rack mounts. Although if you're selling an OEM > system a 1.5 inch box is all you need so that's probably why all the > 11/35's I've seen are small. > > C > > On 6/30/2025 4:14 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > 11/35 is the model number for OEM market 11/40 machines. > > > > paul > > > >> On Jun 30, 2025, at 3:03=E2=80=AFPM, cz via cctalk > wrote: > >> > >> Is that the desktop one? Always wanted one of those, they're cute. But > I thought those were all 11/35's? > >> > >> C > >> > >> On 6/30/2025 1:47 PM, Tom Uban via cctalk wrote: > >>> I have an 11/40 in the 10-1/2" chassis, along with some other 11s etc. > >>> --tom > >>> On 6/30/25 12:17, Jacob Ritorto via cctalk wrote: > >>>> I=E2=80=99ve been wanting an 11/40. What=E2=80=99re you asking for you= rs? Does it run > or is it at least =E2=80=9Call there?=E2=80=9D > >>>> > >>>> Thx > >>>> Jake > >>>> > >>>>> On Jun 29, 2025, at 14:44, Wayne S via cctalk > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> =EF=BB=BFPaul, FYI, I don=E2=80=99t know if you monitor all your rmai= l, but i sent > you some invites to some classic computer discords where people will really > want your boards to complete their systems. > >>>>> > >>>>> Wayne > >>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Jun 29, 2025, at 11:04, Paul Koning via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> =EF=BB=BF > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 2025, at 5:05=E2=80=AFAM, Paul Anderson via cctalk < > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> wrote: > >>>>>>> Front panels: I have both 8-A, KY11-LA and -LB for 11/04, /34, one > each > >>>>>>> 11/70 RDC remote diag con, corporate (blue/blue), and regular. I > think > >>>>>>> there is an 11/40 with a 11/35 silkscreen. I have to go through > the 8-E, F, > >>>>>>> and Ms. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> The last dual extender is on hold, one quad is left, a few hex, a > comet > >>>>>>> (730 or 750 I think), ... > >>>>>> "Comet" was the code name for the 750 (the 780 was "star" which is > why the VMS system library file name is "starlet"). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> paul > >> > > > > --===============3158267080847110076==--