From coreyvcf at gmail.com Thu Jun 1 04:37:59 2017 From: coreyvcf at gmail.com (corey cohen) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 05:37:59 -0400 Subject: Micral N (1974) for sale In-Reply-To: <592f9999.761a9d0a.836dd.2aa8@mx.google.com> References: <592f9999.761a9d0a.836dd.2aa8@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Can anyone find an auction description in English? Not computer aka "google" translated but approved by the auction house for accuracy? If they are French only for this auction, it will severely limit the base of bidders and affect the value. Cheers, Corey corey cohen u??o? ???o? > On Jun 1, 2017, at 12:35 AM, Sam O'nella via cctech wrote: > > That's a starting bid at 20,000 euros? > -------- Original message --------From: St?phane Tsacas via cctalk Date: 5/30/17 5:56 PM (GMT-06:00)Subject: Micral N (1974) for sale > If it happens you're in Tours (in France, https://goo.gl/maps/BXNZ4YJixYq) > June 11 2017, a Micral N from 1974 will be auctioned. > More info -- in French -- on the auction house website > https://www.rouillac.com/fr/news-1252-le_micral_n_premier_micro_ordinateur > > Starting price : 20 K?. > > Good luck ;-) > > -- > ??phane tsacas From coreyvcf at gmail.com Thu Jun 1 04:37:59 2017 From: coreyvcf at gmail.com (corey cohen) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 05:37:59 -0400 Subject: Micral N (1974) for sale In-Reply-To: <592f9999.761a9d0a.836dd.2aa8@mx.google.com> References: <592f9999.761a9d0a.836dd.2aa8@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Can anyone find an auction description in English? Not computer aka "google" translated but approved by the auction house for accuracy? If they are French only for this auction, it will severely limit the base of bidders and affect the value. Cheers, Corey corey cohen u??o? ???o? > On Jun 1, 2017, at 12:35 AM, Sam O'nella via cctech wrote: > > That's a starting bid at 20,000 euros? > -------- Original message --------From: St?phane Tsacas via cctalk Date: 5/30/17 5:56 PM (GMT-06:00)Subject: Micral N (1974) for sale > If it happens you're in Tours (in France, https://goo.gl/maps/BXNZ4YJixYq) > June 11 2017, a Micral N from 1974 will be auctioned. > More info -- in French -- on the auction house website > https://www.rouillac.com/fr/news-1252-le_micral_n_premier_micro_ordinateur > > Starting price : 20 K?. > > Good luck ;-) > > -- > ??phane tsacas From cube1 at charter.net Thu Jun 1 06:59:56 2017 From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 06:59:56 -0500 Subject: RL02 to image file In-Reply-To: <3469C334-9B26-477B-8FC8-A715F0E9C130@hal-pc.org> References: <3469C334-9B26-477B-8FC8-A715F0E9C130@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <1E865F79-4DE8-40A8-85F2-6FF9554D1F87@charter.net> I can. I use a DR11 parallel port on an 11/24 to transfer the files. Used to do it to a PC with an old serial port, but now I can do it with an Arduino and connect it to a PC via Ethernet BTW, you contacted me some time ago about this same thing. I went to a not small amount of effort to get my RL02 drive back in shape and tested, and I let you know I was ready, and then I never heard back from you. Sent from my iPad > On May 31, 2017, at 12:28, JCWelch via cctalk wrote: > > Hello, > Does anyone have a setup to image RL02 packs to a pc file that can be mounted with simh? I have a couple of dozen I would like transferred because I am downsizing. I have a bunch of gear I can trade, also rum and/or dollars. Hopefully you are close to Houston. > > Sincerely, > John Welch From cube1 at charter.net Thu Jun 1 06:59:56 2017 From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 06:59:56 -0500 Subject: RL02 to image file In-Reply-To: <3469C334-9B26-477B-8FC8-A715F0E9C130@hal-pc.org> References: <3469C334-9B26-477B-8FC8-A715F0E9C130@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <1E865F79-4DE8-40A8-85F2-6FF9554D1F87@charter.net> I can. I use a DR11 parallel port on an 11/24 to transfer the files. Used to do it to a PC with an old serial port, but now I can do it with an Arduino and connect it to a PC via Ethernet BTW, you contacted me some time ago about this same thing. I went to a not small amount of effort to get my RL02 drive back in shape and tested, and I let you know I was ready, and then I never heard back from you. Sent from my iPad > On May 31, 2017, at 12:28, JCWelch via cctalk wrote: > > Hello, > Does anyone have a setup to image RL02 packs to a pc file that can be mounted with simh? I have a couple of dozen I would like transferred because I am downsizing. I have a bunch of gear I can trade, also rum and/or dollars. Hopefully you are close to Houston. > > Sincerely, > John Welch From billdegnan at gmail.com Thu Jun 1 06:40:20 2017 From: billdegnan at gmail.com (william degnan) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 07:40:20 -0400 Subject: RL02 to image file In-Reply-To: References: <3469C334-9B26-477B-8FC8-A715F0E9C130@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: On Jun 1, 2017 12:51 AM, "Glen Slick via cctech" wrote: > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 10:28 AM, JCWelch via cctech > wrote: > > Hello, > > Does anyone have a setup to image RL02 packs to a pc file that can be mounted with simh? I have a couple of dozen I would like transferred because I am downsizing. > > > > What do you have for working systems and drives? I have a PDP 11/40 with twin rl02's. I send the data through serial card into Win XP laptop running PDPGUI and use the built-in disk image utility. Slow but reliable. Bill From jos.dreesen at greenmail.ch Thu Jun 1 11:54:33 2017 From: jos.dreesen at greenmail.ch (jos) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 18:54:33 +0200 Subject: Micral N (1974) for sale In-Reply-To: <592f9999.761a9d0a.836dd.2aa8@mx.google.com> References: <592f9999.761a9d0a.836dd.2aa8@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7a86ccc1-29d4-e7e0-149e-317b81a84869@greenmail.ch> On 01.06.2017 06:35, Sam O'nella via cctalk wrote: > That's a starting bid at 20,000 euros? > -------- Original message --------From: St?phane Tsacas via cctalk Date: 5/30/17 5:56 PM (GMT-06:00)Subject: Micral N (1974) for sale > If it happens you're in Tours (in France, https://goo.gl/maps/BXNZ4YJixYq) > June 11 2017, a Micral N from 1974 will be auctioned. > More info -- in French -- on the auction house website > https://www.rouillac.com/fr/news-1252-le_micral_n_premier_micro_ordinateur > > Starting price : 20 K?. > > Good luck ;-) > They do claim that it is the only one in a private collection. So yes, will be interesting... Jos From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Thu Jun 1 12:12:13 2017 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 13:12:13 -0400 Subject: RL02 to image file In-Reply-To: <1E865F79-4DE8-40A8-85F2-6FF9554D1F87@charter.net> References: <3469C334-9B26-477B-8FC8-A715F0E9C130@hal-pc.org> <1E865F79-4DE8-40A8-85F2-6FF9554D1F87@charter.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 7:59 AM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk wrote: > I can. I use a DR11 parallel port on an 11/24 to transfer the files. Interesting. I'd like to see how you tackled that (I can imagine wanting a couple of layers of integrity-checking, for one). > Used to do it to a PC with an old serial port, but now I can do it with an Arduino and connect it to a PC via Ethernet Neat. Any write-up of this or shared code to keep from re-inventing the wheel? I was going to do a bunch of imaging with a basic machine and vtserver, but this sounds much, much faster. I have piles of 8" floppies, RK05 packs and RL02 packs to copy off. Not doing it at 1KB/sec is always an option. -ethan From paulkoning at comcast.net Thu Jun 1 12:15:11 2017 From: paulkoning at comcast.net (Paul Koning) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 13:15:11 -0400 Subject: RL02 to image file In-Reply-To: References: <3469C334-9B26-477B-8FC8-A715F0E9C130@hal-pc.org> <1E865F79-4DE8-40A8-85F2-6FF9554D1F87@charter.net> Message-ID: > On Jun 1, 2017, at 1:12 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 7:59 AM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk > wrote: >> I can. I use a DR11 parallel port on an 11/24 to transfer the files. > > Interesting. I'd like to see how you tackled that (I can imagine > wanting a couple of layers of integrity-checking, for one). I forgot if DECnet was defined for DR11 (I do know it was for PCL11, which is conceptually somewhat similar). Clearly it would be easy enough to do. paul From marvin at west.net Thu Jun 1 12:58:58 2017 From: marvin at west.net (Marvin Johnston) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 10:58:58 -0700 Subject: Corona Data Systems PC available Message-ID: I have a couple of the Corona and Cordata desktops. Apparently Corona Data Systems was forced to change their name when the manufacturer of Corona typewriters objected. So yes, Corona did predate the Cordata computer. My first PC clone was the PPC-400, and I still have the service manual (copy.) Marvin > From: Sam O'nella > > I have a similar but think mine says cordata which i guess yours is an early model? Is there no model number or serial or was that edited out? Just curious. ?If you post on vcfed.org some younger collectors will find the historical significance interesting of a potential unauthorized IBM compatible. I find those companies that were sued out of existence or folded easily an interesting time in an aggressive young home computer market.? > -------- Original message --------From: Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk Date: 5/27/17 10:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Corona Data Systems PC available > More spring cleaning. This time it's a Corona Data Systems PC. > Kinda like an old Compaq unit. Has floppy and hard disk, but does not > boot up. > > Pickup in Santa Cruz, CA > > http://anifur.com/clist/corona1.JPG > > http://anifur.com/clist/corona2.JPG > > http://anifur.com/clist/corona3.JPG From n0body.h0me at inbox.com Thu Jun 1 14:14:40 2017 From: n0body.h0me at inbox.com (N0body H0me) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 11:14:40 -0800 Subject: Micral N (1974) for sale In-Reply-To: <7a86ccc1-29d4-e7e0-149e-317b81a84869@greenmail.ch> References: <592f9999.761a9d0a.836dd.2aa8@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <8DF65F6D368.00001130n0body.h0me@inbox.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Sent: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 18:54:33 +0200 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Micral N (1974) for sale > > On 01.06.2017 06:35, Sam O'nella via cctalk wrote: >> That's a starting bid at 20,000 euros? >> -------- Original message --------From: St?phane Tsacas via cctalk >> Date: 5/30/17 5:56 PM (GMT-06:00)Subject: >> Micral N (1974) for sale >> If it happens you're in Tours (in France, >> https://goo.gl/maps/BXNZ4YJixYq) >> June 11 2017, a Micral N from 1974 will be auctioned. >> More info -- in French -- on the auction house website >> https://www.rouillac.com/fr/news-1252-le_micral_n_premier_micro_ordinateur >> >> Starting price : 20 K?. >> >> Good luck ;-) >> > They do claim that it is the only one in a private collection. So yes, > will be interesting... > > Jos *Snort* Nerdy investments for the rich and famous...... From curiousmarc3 at gmail.com Thu Jun 1 14:21:17 2017 From: curiousmarc3 at gmail.com (Curious Marc) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 12:21:17 -0700 Subject: HP 9836 systems and Fuji Pictrography 4000 printer available In-Reply-To: <002301d2d74b$afe20530$0fa60f90$@gmail.com> References: <58CB3952-7C9B-4EA4-BD6C-82ACE12A561E@gmail.com> <002301d2d74b$afe20530$0fa60f90$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <534A6496-3A47-480E-BBEA-9A260A6CB142@gmail.com> David, That's very nice of you, but I think I got all I need from Bob this week-end. Marc > On May 27, 2017, at 5:45 PM, David Collins wrote: > > Marc, I'm scrapping a 9826 right now as part of a clean-up of the HP Computer Museum and have a keyboard (or specific keycaps) and power switch available for the cost of shipping. If you have any specific IO boards you are after I might have some of those spare as well. > > Let me know. > > David Collins > HP Computer Museum > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Curious Marc via cctalk > Sent: Sunday, 28 May 2017 7:04 AM > To: Bob Rosenbloom ; cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: HP 9836 systems and Fuji Pictrography 4000 printer available > > Bob, > > I might not take the whole machines, but I could use parts. I am missing a few key caps/switches and a power switch on mine (the three of them which come... from you!). And extra IO boards are always welcome. Before you scrap everything, let me know if I can come on Sunday. > > Marc > > > > > > From: cctalk on behalf of "cctalk at classiccmp.org" > Reply-To: Bob Rosenbloom , "cctalk at classiccmp.org" > Date: Saturday, May 27, 2017 at 1:51 PM > To: Tony Duell , "cctalk at classiccmp.org" > Subject: Re: HP 9836 systems and Fuji Pictrography 4000 printer available > > > > On 5/26/2017 12:50 PM, Tony Duell wrote: > > On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 8:45 PM, Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk > > wrote: > > Spring cleaning time! > > > > I have three vintage HP 9836 computers, two monochrome monitors, one color > > monitor and three printers. > > I'm sure they are going to need work to get running. No testing has been > > done. Could probably get two out > > of the three working. Somewhere I have a few various I/O cards also that > > will be included. > > The video boards (in the main unit, under the left disk drive) are different > > between mono and colour versions of the 9836. You can't use a colour > > monitor on a monochrome machine or vice versa. So if somebody > > ends up taking 1 or 2 machines, make sure you get the right monitors. > > > > An easy way to tell them apart without dismantling is that the colour > > machine has a thumbwheel (contrast control) on the bottom.. Left > > side, about level with the front of the drives. The mono machine > > doesn't. The mono motor has a knob on the back, the colour > > monitor has an IEC mains connector. > > > > -tony > > > > > > I looked at the three machines. Two are monochrome and the third has a > > sticker saying it's been upgraded to > > an 9836C so that's the one for the color monitor. > > > > Unfortunately, it looks like no one is interested in them so they might > > get scrapped. Oh well... I just don't have > > room to keep everything. > > > > Bob > > > > > > -- > > Vintage computers and electronics > > www.dvq.com > > www.tekmuseum.com > > www.decmuseum.org > > > > > > From cube1 at charter.net Thu Jun 1 15:10:21 2017 From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 15:10:21 -0500 Subject: RL02 to image file In-Reply-To: References: <3469C334-9B26-477B-8FC8-A715F0E9C130@hal-pc.org> <1E865F79-4DE8-40A8-85F2-6FF9554D1F87@charter.net> Message-ID: <7424e6ae-8db3-a095-8cb4-20f9afa93a0c@charter.net> On 6/1/2017 12:12 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 7:59 AM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk > wrote: >> I can. I use a DR11 parallel port on an 11/24 to transfer the files. > > Interesting. I'd like to see how you tackled that (I can imagine > wanting a couple of layers of integrity-checking, for one). > It uses a simple 8 but parallel bus-like fully interlocked protocol, byte by byte. The send side raises a data available bit, the receiver grabs it, then raises an acknowledge. The sender then drops the available, and then waits until the receiver drops the acknowledge. The cable is less than 6 feet, and isn't even using properly twisted pairs. Transfers are 512 byte blocks (one can always pad the last block with something), and each block starts with a "sync" byte, which prevents losing (or adding) an entire byte - the protocol will lock up - there is no recovery. And I have never needed any. I have yet to see a transfer fail once it gets started. Sometimes one does need to restart one end or the other to get it going - I never bothered to look real hard at why that happens. One can check the integrity of the entire image however one chooses. I use a simple 16 bit CRC (sum -r), and wrote a MACRO program under RT-11 that will do the same for a file or a device. Here again, I have never had a bad checksum. It just works. Note that while transferring FROM a device that supports bad blocks (e.g., RL01) is the same as any other device (with or without the bad block table), one needs to be careful about transferring TO such a device to make sure that one does not overwrite the factory bad block table. >> Used to do it to a PC with an old serial port, but now I can do it with an Arduino and connect it to a PC via Ethernet > Well the above was an error on my part. I should have written "old *parallel* port. > Neat. Any write-up of this or shared code to keep from re-inventing the wheel? I could do something about writing it up, I suppose, but it really is pretty straight-forward. A couple of PDP-11 MACRO programs, running under RT-11. (The PC parallel port code was done in DeSmet C, originally on a Netronics 8088 based true IBM PC "clone", now running under Windows 95, and does not work with modern parallel ports, rendering it kind of useless.) A couple of Arduino programs (I hate the term "sketches") that talk the PDP-11. A couple of perl programs that talk to the Arduino (which uses an Ethernet shield). And NONE of the code is up to snuff, by my standards. In just about every case, I have had a short term goal to accomplish, and stopped once that was working well enough. Things like: - The PDP-11 halts before RT-11 can send out a full error message (it really should loop on an error). - Errors don't provide any data about what the program didn't like - No time spent cleaning up code (in fact, this weekend I spotted a coding error on the Arduino program that reads from the PDP-11, that fortunately doesn't seem to have had any really bad effects). - etc. Jay > > I was going to do a bunch of imaging with a basic machine and > vtserver, but this sounds much, much faster. I have piles of 8" > floppies, RK05 packs and RL02 packs to copy off. Not doing it at > 1KB/sec is always an option. I played with VTServer as well. This is indeed much faster than a serial port - and the Arduino version is a bit faster than the old PC version. I have used it for all of the media you mention, and for RX02 floppies and RK07 packs as well, though these days I normally transfer floppy images to the PC using a Catweasel bit cell board. > > -ethan > From cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Fri Jun 2 03:16:37 2017 From: cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (Christian Corti) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 10:16:37 +0200 (CEST) Subject: RL02 to image file In-Reply-To: <7424e6ae-8db3-a095-8cb4-20f9afa93a0c@charter.net> References: <3469C334-9B26-477B-8FC8-A715F0E9C130@hal-pc.org> <1E865F79-4DE8-40A8-85F2-6FF9554D1F87@charter.net> <7424e6ae-8db3-a095-8cb4-20f9afa93a0c@charter.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Jun 2017, Jay Jaeger wrote: > On 6/1/2017 12:12 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote: >> On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 7:59 AM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk >> wrote: >>> I can. I use a DR11 parallel port on an 11/24 to transfer the files. >> >> Interesting. I'd like to see how you tackled that (I can imagine >> wanting a couple of layers of integrity-checking, for one). >> > > It uses a simple 8 but parallel bus-like fully interlocked protocol, > byte by byte. The send side raises a data available bit, the receiver > grabs it, then raises an acknowledge. The sender then drops the > available, and then waits until the receiver drops the acknowledge. [...] I have a similar setup, a DR11 in a 11/34. It is more or less directly connected to a bidirectional parallel port on a PC that runs a small server written with eRTOS (DOS based), for the PDP side I have written a full RT11 driver, so I can do things like COPY/DEV/FILE and even boot from an image over the DR11. The transfer rate is about 75 kb/s. Christian From dkelvey at hotmail.com Fri Jun 2 09:20:46 2017 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 14:20:46 +0000 Subject: I hadn't made the connection before Message-ID: I was looking at an old GI catalog and casually noting the CP1610 that was most of a PDP11 processor. I did some more web surfing and noticed that the Intellivision game machine used this chip. It just never dawned on me that they used this processor. I see that one could even get a keyboard for these. Dwight From aek at bitsavers.org Fri Jun 2 09:55:54 2017 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 07:55:54 -0700 Subject: I hadn't made the connection before In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 6/2/17 7:20 AM, dwight via cctalk wrote: > the CP1610 that was most of a PDP11 processor. A very odd version of the PDP-11 I did some programming on it for GI in the late 70's using their GIMINI development system and cross-development tools on their Sigma 9. From ggs at shiresoft.com Fri Jun 2 10:12:19 2017 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor Jr) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 08:12:19 -0700 Subject: RL02 to image file In-Reply-To: References: <3469C334-9B26-477B-8FC8-A715F0E9C130@hal-pc.org> <1E865F79-4DE8-40A8-85F2-6FF9554D1F87@charter.net> <7424e6ae-8db3-a095-8cb4-20f9afa93a0c@charter.net> Message-ID: <49B58FF6-6B23-426B-90FB-BDF807F6D5DB@shiresoft.com> > On Jun 2, 2017, at 1:16 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: > > On Thu, 1 Jun 2017, Jay Jaeger wrote: >> On 6/1/2017 12:12 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote: >>> On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 7:59 AM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk >>> wrote: >>>> I can. I use a DR11 parallel port on an 11/24 to transfer the files. >>> >>> Interesting. I'd like to see how you tackled that (I can imagine >>> wanting a couple of layers of integrity-checking, for one). >>> >> >> It uses a simple 8 but parallel bus-like fully interlocked protocol, >> byte by byte. The send side raises a data available bit, the receiver >> grabs it, then raises an acknowledge. The sender then drops the >> available, and then waits until the receiver drops the acknowledge. > [...] > > I have a similar setup, a DR11 in a 11/34. It is more or less directly > connected to a bidirectional parallel port on a PC that runs a small > server written with eRTOS (DOS based), for the PDP side I have written a > full RT11 driver, so I can do things like COPY/DEV/FILE and even boot from > an image over the DR11. The transfer rate is about 75 kb/s. > My setup is an 11/70 running BSD 2.11. I ?dd? the RL pack to a file on one of the file systems (I have the equivalent of 4 RP06 drives) and then ftp it to where I want it (since the 11/70 is on my network?actually at one point it was on the internet where anybody could log-in). I can also do that with RK05?s and RX02?s. ;-) TTFN - Guy From spectre at floodgap.com Fri Jun 2 11:13:13 2017 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 09:13:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: I hadn't made the connection before In-Reply-To: from dwight via cctalk at "Jun 2, 17 02:20:46 pm" Message-ID: <201706021613.v52GDDMk9895964@floodgap.com> > I was looking at an old GI catalog and casually noting the CP1610 that was > most of a PDP11 processor. I did some more web surfing and noticed that the > Intellivision game machine used this chip. It just never dawned on me that > they used this processor. > > I see that one could even get a keyboard for these. The (ridiculous) story of the Keyboard Component was legendary. The ECS keyboard variant can barely be considered functional even by the standards of the time, though I guess it at least looks decent compared to an Aquarius and the second sound chip was nice. It was designed to be cheap and get the FTC off Mattel's back and that's all it did. I say this as a kid whose first video game system was, in fact, an Inty. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- He whose face gives no light, shall never become a star. -- William Blake -- From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Fri Jun 2 11:13:06 2017 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 12:13:06 -0400 Subject: RL02 to image file In-Reply-To: <49B58FF6-6B23-426B-90FB-BDF807F6D5DB@shiresoft.com> References: <3469C334-9B26-477B-8FC8-A715F0E9C130@hal-pc.org> <1E865F79-4DE8-40A8-85F2-6FF9554D1F87@charter.net> <7424e6ae-8db3-a095-8cb4-20f9afa93a0c@charter.net> <49B58FF6-6B23-426B-90FB-BDF807F6D5DB@shiresoft.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 11:12 AM, Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk wrote: > My setup is an 11/70 running BSD 2.11. I ?dd? the RL pack to a file on > one of the file systems (I have the equivalent of 4 RP06 drives) and then > ftp it to where I want it (since the 11/70 is on my network?actually at one > point it was on the internet where anybody could log-in). I can also do > that with RK05?s and RX02?s. ;-) If I had a large setup like that, I would totally do it that way. If I could get the DWBUA working in my 8300 and add the DEBNT, I might use that rig (with various Unibus interfaces). What I have handy is a Qbus KDF11-based box and some smallish Unibus hardware (BA11-L with either KD11-D or KD11-E). Disk is no problem on the MicroPDP, but I don't really have a lot of Unibus disk larger than RL02. This is why I'm looking at faster alternatives to vtserver. Something that fits on a floppy or TU58 image and has a total in-memory footprint of 56Kbytes is fantastic, but something that fits in 248kbytes is essential. I have a number of DR11-C and DRV11 modules, so that's a totally viable method. I am not blessed with an abundance of Ethernet in my DEC collection. -ethan From cclist at sydex.com Fri Jun 2 11:26:46 2017 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 09:26:46 -0700 Subject: I hadn't made the connection before In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 06/02/2017 07:55 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > A very odd version of the PDP-11 > > I did some programming on it for GI in the late 70's using their > GIMINI development system and cross-development tools on their Sigma > 9. I sold a bare CP1600 chip about a year ago to a collector. "Odd" is an understatement. A 10-bit wide instruction word, with the upper 6 bits of the opcode unused. Loading a 16-bit address took three words. Also, slow, very slow, with no I/O instructions. A stripped-down instruction set (IIRC, exclusive OR and AND Boolean ops, but no inclusive OR). We'd examined its possible usage, but determined that code would run slower on it than on most contemporary 8-bit CPUs. But, for 1975, notable because it's a 16-bit monolithic CPU among a handful of others (Fairchild 9440, MicroNova, National PACE, TI 9900) --Chuck From spectre at floodgap.com Fri Jun 2 11:37:13 2017 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 09:37:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: I hadn't made the connection before In-Reply-To: from Chuck Guzis via cctalk at "Jun 2, 17 09:26:46 am" Message-ID: <201706021637.v52GbDtl6160586@floodgap.com> > I sold a bare CP1600 chip about a year ago to a collector. "Odd" is an > understatement. A 10-bit wide instruction word, with the upper 6 bits of > the opcode unused. Loading a 16-bit address took three words. > > Also, slow, very slow, with no I/O instructions. But that was because it has memory-mapped I/O, no? On the other hand the decles were weird and it has a lot of instructions that were removed. Retrospectively a 6502 or a Z80 would have looked like a better choice in this application, even considering this was supposed to be a higher-end console. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. -- 1 Corinthians 8:1 --------------- From brain at jbrain.com Fri Jun 2 11:48:37 2017 From: brain at jbrain.com (Jim Brain) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 11:48:37 -0500 Subject: I hadn't made the connection before In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4a49c48e-daec-ae3f-fa76-a571e93a9b0d@jbrain.com> On 6/2/2017 11:26 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > On 06/02/2017 07:55 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > >> A very odd version of the PDP-11 >> >> I did some programming on it for GI in the late 70's using their >> GIMINI development system and cross-development tools on their Sigma >> 9. > I sold a bare CP1600 chip about a year ago to a collector. "Odd" is an > understatement. A 10-bit wide instruction word, with the upper 6 bits of > the opcode unused. Loading a 16-bit address took three words. > > Also, slow, very slow, with no I/O instructions. A stripped-down > instruction set (IIRC, exclusive OR and AND Boolean ops, but no > inclusive OR). We'd examined its possible usage, but determined that > code would run slower on it than on most contemporary 8-bit CPUs. > > But, for 1975, notable because it's a 16-bit monolithic CPU among a > handful of others (Fairchild 9440, MicroNova, National PACE, TI 9900) This begs the question of why the CP1600 was designed that way. I fail to believe that GI engineers were somehow less intelligent than the rest of the population, so what happened? Upper Management dictate? Customer demand? It would be interesting to know. Jim From cclist at sydex.com Fri Jun 2 12:04:31 2017 From: cclist at sydex.com (Chuck Guzis) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 10:04:31 -0700 Subject: I hadn't made the connection before In-Reply-To: <201706021637.v52GbDtl6160586@floodgap.com> References: <201706021637.v52GbDtl6160586@floodgap.com> Message-ID: On 06/02/2017 09:37 AM, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > But that was because it has memory-mapped I/O, no? On the other hand > the decles were weird and it has a lot of instructions that were > removed. GI made a 10-bit wide ROM for program storage, as I recall. I think the 10-bit instruction word was the single greatest liability, resulting in inefficient memory usage when memory was expensive--and slower execution time. For the time, not a bad effort, particularly when contrasted with the National 16-bit PACE, which was loosely based on the 4-accumulator DG Nova design and which required special buffers for integration into TTL designs. --Chuck From dkelvey at hotmail.com Fri Jun 2 13:02:32 2017 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 18:02:32 +0000 Subject: I hadn't made the connection before In-Reply-To: <201706021637.v52GbDtl6160586@floodgap.com> References: from Chuck Guzis via cctalk at "Jun 2, 17 09:26:46 am",<201706021637.v52GbDtl6160586@floodgap.com> Message-ID: Such things were often done on loyalty to previous companies. It is like the Video Brain used the F8 or that Olivetti used the Z8000 for the M20. The Video Brain was because the designer had worked on the F8 at Fairchild. The M20 was because Faggin was Italian and had connections to Olivetti. Such things were not always done because they were better or cheaper. Woz was rare in his way of thinking at the time. He was mostly looking for cheap but having a rich set of addressing mode was surely a plus. Dwight ________________________________ From: cctalk on behalf of Cameron Kaiser via cctalk Sent: Friday, June 2, 2017 9:37:13 AM To: cclist at sydex.com; cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: I hadn't made the connection before > I sold a bare CP1600 chip about a year ago to a collector. "Odd" is an > understatement. A 10-bit wide instruction word, with the upper 6 bits of > the opcode unused. Loading a 16-bit address took three words. > > Also, slow, very slow, with no I/O instructions. But that was because it has memory-mapped I/O, no? On the other hand the decles were weird and it has a lot of instructions that were removed. Retrospectively a 6502 or a Z80 would have looked like a better choice in this application, even considering this was supposed to be a higher-end console. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. -- 1 Corinthians 8:1 --------------- From rp at servium.ch Fri Jun 2 13:24:16 2017 From: rp at servium.ch (Rico Pajarola) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 20:24:16 +0200 Subject: What is this bus? In-Reply-To: References: <74E8EDB5CDB348C2B454A4ECA77955CD@310e2> <04937b32-8d71-e6ce-3758-8e1cbfeebb7b@sydex.com> <015BD6C1967242E4958F164661131F9E@310e2> <4123e14c-4be5-c7cb-c1b8-eed36b46c321@bitsavers.org> <054F0474906C46F6BA53F44A2EE89088@310e2> <050A31726F4340398959D291E46902A8@310e2> Message-ID: On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 1:45 PM, Camiel Vanderhoeven < camiel.vanderhoeven at vmssoftware.com> wrote: > >looks like STD Bus ( > >http://www.winsystems.com/wp-content/uploads/specs/std_section1.pdf) > > What would give you that idea? Neither the number of pins, nor the spacing > of the connector as described in the initial post match... > Should have looked closer before posting. The enclosure (if it is part of it) reminded me of STD bus enclosures, but it's been a while since I've seen one for real. From sellam.ismail at gmail.com Fri Jun 2 15:37:10 2017 From: sellam.ismail at gmail.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 13:37:10 -0700 Subject: For Sale: Osborne 1 (original tan/black case) Message-ID: I have an Osborne 1 (the original tan/black case model) for sale. Full details are here: http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?58093-Osborne-1-(Original-Tan-Black-model) Thanks! Sellam From sellam.ismail at gmail.com Fri Jun 2 15:38:42 2017 From: sellam.ismail at gmail.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 13:38:42 -0700 Subject: For Sale: (2) Boxed Macintosh 512K Enhanced and (2) Boxed Macintosh Plus Message-ID: I have these 4 boxed Macs, all being sold separately. Full details and link to video are here: http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?58094-Boxed-Early-Macintosh-Sale-Macintosh-Plus-(2)-Macintosh-512K-Enhanced-(2)-Boxed Thanks! Sellam