From ohh at drizzle.com Mon Nov 1 01:56:38 2004 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:22 2005 Subject: Classic OS's - EduSystem In-Reply-To: <200410301955.PAA14530@ss10.danlan.com> Message-ID: Dan Lanciani wrote, quoting Charlie Root: > > |Are full installation and user guides for Edusystem-20 around? I don't recall seeing guides for individual systems (and it seems to me there probably are some, a.k.a. teachers' guides and such), but they're all documented reasonably well in DEC's _Edusystem Handbook_ (1973). The noble Mr. Kossow has got a copy up at Bitsavers: http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp8/EduSystemHandbookJan73.pdf > I'm pretty sure I still have the Edusystem Handbook around somewhere. I > think that has all the necessary information because I was able to use it > to start from scratch (toggle in the initial loader, etc.) a couple of times > in high school. Didn't the Edusystem tapes modify the RIM loader to start > themselves or such? Once they started the interactive configuration dialog > really didn't need any extra documentation. They did indeed start themselves from the RIM loader - they loaded a BIN loader in the first few feet of tape, and the final instruction loaded from RIM forces a jump to the new loader; that loader, in turn, loaded the body of the program, and jumped to the Edusystem initialization routine when no character had been read from the tape for one second or so (e.g., once the tape had run out of the reader). It was a simple and clever little trick. I disassembled it once to have a look at it, about, oh, twenty-five years ago. A little frightening to remember it with such clarity. :) -O.- From stanb at dial.pipex.com Mon Nov 1 03:07:47 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:24 2005 Subject: require input form respected peers :^) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 31 Oct 2004 17:56:07 PST." <326BCDE6-2BA9-11D9-85C8-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <200411010907.JAA06587@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Ron Hudso said: > ( .)v(. ) [my beady eyes crossing trying to read 80x24 off a watch] > I get the same effect reading the screen of the Cybiko I use as a portable terminal...even a 4x6 font won't get 80 columns on it's 2-inch screen though! -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Mon Nov 1 03:00:39 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:24 2005 Subject: require input form respected peers :^) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:42:00 PST." Message-ID: <200411010900.JAA06540@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Ron Hudson said: > Ok, I am replacing the HP terminal with either a Macintosh SE or an > Apple IIc+... [snip] > > Door #1 - Macintosh SE > - Have an appletalk laser printer for this machine > - perhaps smaller footprint. I use a Mac SE as a terminal to a Linux box running simh...actually it's connected to two Linux boxen. It makes a neat little terminal which doesn't take up too much room. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From melamy at earthlink.net Mon Nov 1 05:25:09 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:24 2005 Subject: new find: an Intel MDS 800 Message-ID: <10686870.1099308310340.JavaMail.root@statler.psp.pas.earthlink.net> it works just fine and I just cut and pasted it from browsing just before I sent the message. I also just cut and pasted the link just a moment ago that I gave out and it works fine. Try going just to www.Intel.com - if you can't get there it could be a Florida issue (I am in Virginia). Every once in awhile, the lines appear to go down that connect the US together. If the browser said it was trying to open the site then the DNS server supplied an IP address to your browser and there is a line issue to the west coast. If it said it was trying to find the site, then you were not able to get to the DNS server to translate the name to an IP address and your connection to the DNS server is in question. Of course it could be a browser issue if you aren't using that OS and browser that lots of people seem to blast all the time... (I don't recall your preference) best regards, Steve -----Original Message----- From: "Joe R." Sent: Oct 31, 2004 9:57 PM To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Subject: Re: new find: an Intel MDS 800 At 03:36 PM 10/31/04 -0500, you wrote: >Intel has a complete chronology of all their devices and systems at: > >http://www.intel.com/intel/intelis/museum/archives/timeline/ It's a dead link when I try it. How long since you've looked at it? I remember seeing a chronological list from Intel a couple of years ago but it only including ICs. Joe > > > >> How sure are you of these dates? I've been trying to find out exactly >>when the various models were released but never found found anything that >>was authoritative. >> >> Joe > > From melamy at earthlink.net Mon Nov 1 05:28:18 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:24 2005 Subject: new find: an Intel MDS 800 Message-ID: <31516094.1099308499102.JavaMail.root@statler.psp.pas.earthlink.net> probably more likely that Siemens cross licensed the chips (made those) and wanted development support for them in Europe. Intel manufactured Siemens brand MDS systems during that time at part of the license agreement -----Original Message----- From: "Joe R." Sent: Oct 31, 2004 9:53 PM To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Subject: Re: new find: an Intel MDS 800 At 08:07 AM 10/30/04 -0400, you wrote: >Siemens and Intel worked together on Multibus-II products in the mid 80s' I don't know if Intel worked together with any of them but at one time there were over 200 companies producing Multibus cards. In this area, I find a LOT of Harris cards. Joe > >At 06:30 PM 10/27/2004 -0400, Dave Mabry wrote: >>I seem to remember that Intel had some sort of marketing agreement with >>Siemens. There were several Intel products that had Siemens logos on >>them sold in Europe. Unfortunately, I don't remember the specifics. >> >>Steve Thatcher wrote: >> >>> I lived in Munich, Germany for a year and a half back in 1983 while I >>> was working for Applied Microsystems. I developed a couple of the EM >>> series emulators and ran into a number of remarked Intel systems that >>> said Siemens on the outside. >>> >>> >>>> I've never heard of a Siemans system. The white MDSs that I've seen >>>> all >>>> have the standard Intel markings and labels. (I've got one sitting >>>> about 3 >>>> feet from me as I type.) >>>> >>>> Joe >>> >>> >>> >> >> > >Michael Thompson >E-Mail: M_Thompson@IDS.net > > From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Mon Nov 1 05:30:37 2004 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:24 2005 Subject: Intercept Jr (another eBay announcement) Message-ID: <000001c4c006$35f67ea0$4d4d2c0a@atx> I have finally got around to putting the "Intersil Intercept Jr tutorial system IM6100" up on eBay it is item 5135664035 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5135664035 Hope this reaches all who are interested and doesn't annoy too many of those who are not :-) Andy From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Nov 1 10:13:33 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:24 2005 Subject: new find: an Intel MDS 800 Message-ID: <200411011613.IAA20928@clulw009.amd.com> Hi The controller boards for DD were not that hard to talk too. The fact that they used the 3000 series had little effect on the main bus interface. It was just some simple I/O port operations to do disk I/O. It was actually simpler than the typical WesternDigital chips. Dwight >From: "Joe R." > > That's interesting. I've never even heard of a white MDS-800 before. Was >it painted white originally or was it painted over an orginal blue one? > > I think you need a lot more than rewriting the BIOS to handle DD disks. >Intels DD controller has a 3000 series bit-slice CPU and some other odd >circuitry to handle DD. > > Joe > > >At 11:39 AM 10/29/04 +0200, you wrote: >>I have a white MDS 800 System. It was sold in Germany by Siemens and they >>relabelled it to SME 800 ("Siemens Microcomputer Entwicklungssystem"). >>It has an external 8"-double drive and a dumb terminal. Inside it is all >>Intel. The only thing they changed internal: The glued "Siemens"-labels >>over the original Intel-logos on the PCBs. >> >>You can see it: >> http://computermuseum-stuttgart.de/dev/sme800 >> >>We are running ISIS-II inclusive KERMIT on it. One time Christian Corti >>succeeded to boot a CP/M 2.?. But in the meantime this disk was damaged. >>I found a very old CP/M source, dated "11/21/75" in the net, written in >>PL/M and was able to translate it with the original PL/M-compiler >>written in FORTRAN (dated: JAN 1975) on our SUN 4/260. >>What is needed: To adapt the original BIOS for single density disks to >>the double density drives on our system and to make bootable floppies. >> >>Cheers >> Klemens >> >> >>On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Steve Thatcher wrote: >> >>> I lived in Munich, Germany for a year and a half back in 1983 while I was >>> working for Applied Microsystems. I developed a couple of the EM series >>> emulators and ran into a number of remarked Intel systems that said >Siemens >>> on the outside. >>> >>> >>>> I've never heard of a Siemans system. The white MDSs that I've seen all >>>> have the standard Intel markings and labels. (I've got one sitting about 3 >>>> feet from me as I type.) >>>> >>>> Joe >>> >> >>-- >> >>klemens krause >>Stuttgarter KompetenzZentrum fyr Minimal- & Retrocomputing. >>http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de >> >> > From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Nov 1 10:25:31 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:26 2005 Subject: new find: an Intel MDS 800 Message-ID: <200411011625.IAA20937@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I knew one of the fellows that wrote the 3000 code for the double density controller. A fellow named Lou Bolardo. It always astounded me that it took 2 boards to do a disk controller. I guess when one is selling the systems at $10K+ it didn't make too much difference as to how much space one used. Dwight >From: "Steve Thatcher" > >the very first MDS800 I worked on in 1977 was SD based and used ISIS (not >ISIS-II). In fact, I even had the paper tape reader and punch to go with >it. Company is long gone of course, but my memory lingers on. > >When I spoke about the 8271, I was talking about the IOC board in the >series II and was not talking about the MDS800 because it had no internal >boards other than the bus board all the carded plugged into. The 8271 was >not introduced until 1977 when the Series II was released. The MDS800 was >released in 1975. > >Their decision was based on available technology... > >At 12:40 PM 10/30/2004, you wrote: >>At 11:48 AM 10/30/04 -0400, you wrote: >> >I thought that the SD controller board set was also bit slice (the series >>II internal was of course 8271 based). >> >> That's possible but I've never seen a SD board set and I have 8 or nine >>complete machines and about that many more for parts plus hundreds of >>Multibus cards. I guess that anyone that paid for a board set went with the >>DD set. I don't think that the SD set is even shown in the few catalogs >>that I have. I wonder why Intel would use bit slice on the SD board set >>instead of an 8271? >> >> Joe > > From jdboyd at jdboyd.net Mon Nov 1 10:29:13 2004 From: jdboyd at jdboyd.net (Joshua Boyd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:26 2005 Subject: Harvard vs. vonNeuman In-Reply-To: <4158BF16.50207@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <4158BF16.50207@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20041101162913.GA11284@jdboyd.zill.net> On Mon, Sep 27, 2004 at 07:32:06PM -0600, ben franchuk wrote: > Peter C. Wallace wrote: > >Isn't self modifying code pretty much deprecated these days (aside from > >trampolines and such) > > So what is a trampoline? I'm not sure if this fits his usage of the word here, but in the Redboot boot loader (part of the eCos operating system), they use something they call a trampoline to start a program loaded into ram. > I have yet to see a good use for self-modifying code. Other than > subroutines and interupts placing data into a code segement the only > self modifying code I have seen was for the 8088. Wouldn't JIT compilers be essentially self modifying code? -- Joshua D. Boyd jdboyd@jdboyd.net http://www.jdboyd.net/ http://www.joshuaboyd.org/ From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Nov 1 10:45:21 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:26 2005 Subject: Intel MDS Further Information Message-ID: <200411011645.IAA20963@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Scott This is a Series II machine, not a Series I ( no such thing as a Series I ). The IPC card is the indicator. That was only used in the Series II's and Series III machines. The Chassis should also have a non-multibus card called the IOC card that runs the terminal and the SD controller. The IPC card is the main processor card. It is the one that runs any code that you'd normally run from the disk. Also, you should note that there is an small interconnect for the aux bus connector that goes between the two disk controller cards. This may be bolted to the frame but it need to be there for the cards to work. Dwight >From: "Scott Stevens" > >This weekend I had the time to pull open the Intel MDS system I >mentioned last week, and record info and photograph all the Multibus >cards. I've put the info up on some personal web space. All are >invited to comment on and advise me on what I've got. > >The URL is: http://sasteven.multics.org/MDS/Intel_MDS_Cards.html > >Here's the 'text' of the page, which includes board numbers, etc. (go >to web page for a photo of each board) > >---------------- >>These boards are out of my MDS system. It was targeted as an ICE for >>the 8051 microcontroller. The emulator POD plugs into one of the board >>sets below. >> >>This page is organized to document the boards as they are installed in >>the Multibus cage from the bottom going up. >> >>--------------------------------- >> >>Bottom Board on Rack- >> >>Floppy Disk Interface >>Double Density >>PWA 123857-002 >>S/N 023767 >> >>This board has a cable plugged into it's top edge connector. >> >>--------------------------------- >> >> >>Next Board Up >> >>Floppy Disk Controller Channel >>PWA 10000457-05 >>(may have copied down one extra 'zero' in above part number) >> >>This board does not have a cable plugged into the 'top' edge connector. >>Edge connector shows 'weathering' from not having connector on it. >> >>--------------------------------- >> >>Next Board Up >> >>Trace Board >>PWA 162249-001 >>S/N 13904 >> >>J10 and J11 headers which are brought out to the Emulator Pod. >> >>--------------------------------- >> >>Next Board Up >> >>Controller Board >>PWA 162380-005 Rev M >> >>This board has an 8080A Processor on it. >>The Multibus P2 board edge is 'bridged' to Trace Board (above) on a >>two-slot interconnect board. >>Has header on it brought out to Emulator pod and also power header to >>emulator pod. >> >>--------------------------------- >> >> Open Slot, second from top. >> >>--------------------------------- >> >>Top Board >> >>I.P.C. board >>PWA 123192-003 >>S/N 084111 >> >>This board has an 8085 Processor and array of memory chips. >>Also has two 8251 and two 8259 chips. >>Board has row of buttons to generate interrupts that faces out to front >>of system. > >It appears I have here an 8085 based system. Is this correct. It >also appears that there's an 8080 controller as part of the emulation >system. I'm assuming (?) the system would run with the Emulator >boards (Trace Board and Controller Board) not installed. > >Some questions: > >1. Is the memory array on the top board (board with 8085 processor) >the main system memory. It looks like four rows of 4116x8, for a >total 64K. > >2. The system has a built in CRT display, and a keyboard input. >Where is the video generated and keyboard I/O circuitry? > >Any and all insights into this system are welcomed. Probably I'll add >in any info I receive into the HTML for the page. > >Thanks, >Scott > > > > From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Nov 1 10:51:08 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:26 2005 Subject: Intel MDS Further Information Message-ID: <200411011651.IAA20970@clulw009.amd.com> ---snip--- >>>--------------------------------- >>> >>> >>>Next Board Up >>> >>>Floppy Disk Controller Channel >>>PWA 10000457-05 >>>(may have copied down one extra 'zero' in above part number) >>> >>>This board does not have a cable plugged into the 'top' edge connector. >>>Edge connector shows 'weathering' from not having connector on it. >>> Hi I forgot to mention. Only one of the two disk cards has the top edge connectors used. The other is just for test access. Dwight From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Nov 1 10:57:08 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:26 2005 Subject: require input form respected peers :^) In-Reply-To: <20041101021237.GA25217@bos7.spole.gov> References: <1099261233.16549.23.camel@weka.localdomain> <20041101021237.GA25217@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <1099328228.18580.1.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-11-01 at 02:12 +0000, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Sun, Oct 31, 2004 at 05:54:26PM -0800, Ron Hudson wrote: > > Gah!! I meant 2 feet x 2 feet... > > > > " inches 2 ticks, two syllables duh! I knowed that! > > "The great and mighty Stonehenge was nearly crushed by a dwarf!" > > (or something close to that). > > -ethan Ha ha - nice one! :-) J. From melamy at earthlink.net Mon Nov 1 11:22:24 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:26 2005 Subject: Intel MDS Further Information Message-ID: <27514965.1099329744855.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> that is not correct. The top connector is used to supply a cable to the internal disk drive for DD. -----Original Message----- From: "Dwight K. Elvey" Sent: Nov 1, 2004 11:51 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Intel MDS Further Information Hi I forgot to mention. Only one of the two disk cards has the top edge connectors used. The other is just for test access. Dwight From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Nov 1 11:28:17 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:26 2005 Subject: Heath EC-1 on eBay Message-ID: <200411011728.JAA21043@clulw009.amd.com> Hi John Now there are two on ebay. The latest one is a little more on the conservative side. Starting at $990 with a buy it now price of $1250. I don't recall ever seeing one of these go for more than about $600. The first one does come with the plastic component holders. I wish I could find these today. They were actually half of the 300 ohm TV twin lead connectors. RS used to have them but has stopped carrying them. I've found that the miniature banana connectors from Pomona also work but they are expensive. I like the comment that one can not use the EC-1 without the operation manual, that the second fellow states. That is like saying that a person can't use a car without the operators manual. I guess that is an indication of the state of knowledge now days. Dwight >From: "John Lawson" > > > I'll hold off bidding on this in case someone else wants it more than >me: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=5134822428&rd= 1 > > > > Starting bid is a stimulating $2,050.00. > > But you Instant Gratification types can take this gem home for a measly >$3K - Buy It Now and save yourself the stress of a damn auction!! > > > > Let's see if it stays this way, or if somebody hits the seller with a >clue-stick. > > > Cheers > >Granino Vanevar Bush-Korn > > > From melamy at earthlink.net Mon Nov 1 11:37:19 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:26 2005 Subject: Intel MDS Further Information Message-ID: <15882920.1099330640323.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> I jumped to soon, I checked into the two board set and Dwight is indeed correct about the channel board only being test signals. When I got my first "surplus" system, it came with dual connectors and had both cards plugged into cables that ran to the back and the internal drive. Why they kept both cables now is a mystery... -----Original Message----- From: "Dwight K. Elvey" Sent: Nov 1, 2004 11:51 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Intel MDS Further Information Hi I forgot to mention. Only one of the two disk cards has the top edge connectors used. The other is just for test access. Dwight From dmabry at mich.com Mon Nov 1 11:58:57 2004 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:26 2005 Subject: Intel MDS Further Information In-Reply-To: <15882920.1099330640323.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> References: <15882920.1099330640323.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <41867961.6030005@mich.com> I think the cable you are talking about was to allow you to control two external DD drives through the 37-pin connector on the back and ALSO the internal drive as DD with the cable what went to the 50-pin on that drive. I also have one and it works that way, if I am thinking of the cable you are referring to. Steve Thatcher wrote: > I jumped to soon, I checked into the two board set and Dwight is > indeed correct about the channel board only being test signals. When > I got my first "surplus" system, it came with dual connectors and had > both cards plugged into cables that ran to the back and the internal > drive. Why they kept both cables now is a mystery... > > > -----Original Message----- From: "Dwight K. Elvey" > Sent: Nov 1, 2004 11:51 AM To: > cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Intel MDS Further Information > > Hi I forgot to mention. Only one of the two disk cards has the top > edge connectors used. The other is just for test access. Dwight > > > > From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Nov 1 12:09:33 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:26 2005 Subject: Kildall or Kidall? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041031214918.0090e6c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041101130532.03b4fba8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Joe R. may have mentioned these words: >At 12:51 PM 10/31/04 -0800, you wrote: > >On Sun, 31 Oct 2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > >> On Sun, 31 Oct 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> > >> > Does anybody know exactly how Gary's name was spelled? I've found it > >> > spelled both as Kildall and Kidall. > >> Kildall. > > > >Most definitely. I've never seen anyone call him "Kidall" but that's just > >out and out wrong. > > Go do a Google search. There are lots of people that have spelled it >that way. An old adage brought new again... "Don't believe everything you read on Google." I used it once to find out how to spell Jill Hennessy's name -- Last time I checked, there are /more/ hits on "Hennessey" than the former, yet the former is correct. "Just because you can't spell, doesn't mean you can't get on the Internet." You can quote me... ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | A new truth in advertising slogan SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers | for MicroSoft: "We're not the oxy... zmerch@30below.com | ...in oxymoron!" From melamy at earthlink.net Mon Nov 1 12:28:38 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:26 2005 Subject: Intel MDS Further Information Message-ID: <25798411.1099333721029.JavaMail.root@gonzo.psp.pas.earthlink.net> the cable setup I had when I received the MDS225 machine was two cables and someone had plugged both of them into the two floppy controller boards. One cable has two 37 pin connectors for drives 0,1 and 2,3 and the other cable had a 37 pin connector and the 50 pin edge for the internal drive. I hadn't really paid attention to the card details to know that the connectors should not have both been plugged in. I never had a dual cabinet to try it with either (that is what I am cuurently working on). -----Original Message----- From: Dave Mabry Sent: Nov 1, 2004 12:58 PM To: Steve Thatcher , General Discussion@null, On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts , null@null Subject: Re: Intel MDS Further Information I think the cable you are talking about was to allow you to control two external DD drives through the 37-pin connector on the back and ALSO the internal drive as DD with the cable what went to the 50-pin on that drive. I also have one and it works that way, if I am thinking of the cable you are referring to. From melamy at earthlink.net Mon Nov 1 12:38:14 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:26 2005 Subject: Intel MDS Further Information Message-ID: <26181138.1099334296535.JavaMail.root@gonzo.psp.pas.earthlink.net> I think I am going home tonight and sort my cables... -----Original Message----- From: Steve Thatcher Sent: Nov 1, 2004 1:28 PM To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" , On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts , null@null Subject: Re: Intel MDS Further Information the cable setup I had when I received the MDS225 machine was two cables and someone had plugged both of them into the two floppy controller boards. One cable has two 37 pin connectors for drives 0,1 and 2,3 and the other cable had a 37 pin connector and the 50 pin edge for the internal drive. I hadn't really paid attention to the card details to know that the connectors should not have both been plugged in. I never had a dual cabinet to try it with either (that is what I am cuurently working on). -----Original Message----- From: Dave Mabry Sent: Nov 1, 2004 12:58 PM To: Steve Thatcher , General Discussion@null, On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts , null@null Subject: Re: Intel MDS Further Information I think the cable you are talking about was to allow you to control two external DD drives through the 37-pin connector on the back and ALSO the internal drive as DD with the cable what went to the 50-pin on that drive. I also have one and it works that way, if I am thinking of the cable you are referring to. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 1 13:29:18 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:26 2005 Subject: new find: another HP 1000! In-Reply-To: <001901c4bee5$58ed6e40$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <3.0.6.32.20041030125123.0094db90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041101142918.008f5b80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> The FEM board has five sets of ROMs. Here's the list: Set A: 5180-0141 Unmarked 5180-0143. Set B: 12883-80019 12823-80020 12823-80021. Set C: 12824-80007 12824-80008 12824-80009. Sets D, E and F are empty. Set G: 92084-80004 92084-80005 92084-80006. Set H: 92084-80001 92084-80002 92084-80003. Can you tell me what these are for? Don't forget that this is an F series and has the FPU so they may be for it. No FAB board. The Boot ROMs are PN: 5081-2361, 12992-80005, 1816-0857 and 1816-0962. According to the ROM manual the first two are the 7900/7905 Standard Boot Loader and CS/80 Disk Boot Loader. I couldn't find a match on the PNs for the other two. Looking inside the front panel it looks like the ROMs are: 791(unreadable), console, 7914 Disk and 7970 Tape. It looks like they're in the wrong order. It's not surprising, the markings have been crossed out and written over several times. Also found out last night that this one has the High-Performace Memory cards (12749H) and HP Memory Controller (2102E). Also I set the system up today and ran the memory test. Everything works perfectly. Joe At 08:02 PM 10/30/04 -0500, you wrote: >Joe R> wrote... >> I checked and the >> CPU section has a DCPC card, Memory Protect Bd, Mem Bd, four 256KW memory >> cards and a 2102E Memory Controller. The IO side is full of cards. > >What's more interesting than the cards, is the firmware chips on the FEM >board, and on the FAB board underneath the cpu card (if it has one). > >Jay > > > From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Nov 1 13:30:27 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:26 2005 Subject: Intel MDS Further Information Message-ID: <200411011930.LAA21109@clulw009.amd.com> Hi You could be right but I've never seen both top connectors used. Then most of the machines I've seen used the external drive for DD's and the internal for SD's. Dwight >From: "Steve Thatcher" > >that is not correct. The top connector is used to supply a cable to the internal disk drive for DD. > >-----Original Message----- >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" >Sent: Nov 1, 2004 11:51 AM >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: Intel MDS Further Information > >Hi > I forgot to mention. Only one of the two disk cards has the >top edge connectors used. The other is just for test access. >Dwight > > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 1 13:37:49 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:26 2005 Subject: Intel MDS Further Information In-Reply-To: <200411011645.IAA20963@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041101143749.008f7e90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:45 AM 11/1/04 -0800, Dwight wrote: >Hi Scott Also, >you should note that there is an small interconnect for the >aux bus connector that goes between the two disk controller >cards. This may be bolted to the frame but it need to be there >for the cards to work. I was going to mention that. You can see what the interconnects look like by the one that's one on your controller card. There MUST also be one between the two cards for the emulator. Intel usually bolted these to the card cage so they stayed in the CC when you removed the cards. However it was a PITA to bolt them in so many owner's and upgrade technicians simply plugged them into the cards and let them just sit in the CC. Just be sure that you install them when you reinstall the cards. AND be sure and move any that are bolted into the CC if you move their associates cards to other slots. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 1 13:41:24 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:26 2005 Subject: Heath EC-1 on eBay In-Reply-To: <200411011728.JAA21043@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041101144124.008fa100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:28 AM 11/1/04 -0800, you wrote: >Hi John > Now there are two on ebay. The latest one is a little >more on the conservative side. Starting at $990 with a >buy it now price of $1250. I don't recall ever seeing >one of these go for more than about $600. > The first one does come with the plastic component holders. >I wish I could find these today. They were actually half >of the 300 ohm TV twin lead connectors. Are you talking about the clips that looks something like a clothes pin but have metal tips? If so, you should have said that you needed some. I just passed up a heap of them in a basket of cable scrap. I looked at them for about ten seconds before I remembered what they were for. I haven't seen any others for over 20 years. Joe From kapteynr at cboe.com Mon Nov 1 14:13:58 2004 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Kapteyn, Rob) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:26 2005 Subject: Geek-Stuff places in LA Message-ID: Pasadena. There is a good surplus store will interesting junk. Most of it is scientific/engineering stuff associated with CalTech. Some computer stuff, but not a lot. I was searching for their name on the web (C&H Sales) and found this interesting directory of Electronic Surplus Stores under "Things to Do in Los Angeles". http://www.laokay.com/ElectronicSurplus.htm Now I need to look for a similar page for Chicago :-) -Rob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ron Hudson Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 11:33 AM To: Classic Computers Subject: Geek-Stuff places in LA I remember I flew into LAX(i think)... LAX is connected to the nearest freeway via a longish branch. So I came out of LAX, "Turned Right" (toward the ocean- west) at the branch - went a distance, "Turned left) (south) on some street - and found on the right hand side a very "Weirdstuff" like place? That same street continues and becomes another freeway that I had to take to get to my work-site in Compton. Anyone know where I was? Any other electronics-junkyard type places in LA? It has just occurred to me that LA is only 3 hours away...Road Trip! :^) From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Nov 1 14:14:16 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:26 2005 Subject: classiccmp hardware Message-ID: <001f01c4c04f$5d28c980$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> All the hardware is finally in for the mirroring setup. I was going to go with software raid till I found out that the system won't boot when the primary drive fails (ie it won't automatically boot from the 2nd drive). So I went the hardware raid direction. The new hardware includes a 3ware Escalade 7006-2 controller ($123.70), and two 160gb PATA 7200rpm 8mb cache drives ($88.54 and $67.22, respectively). Total hardware expenditure including sales tax and shipping was $279.46. Of course, I'll take the time to reinstall from scratch rather than just copy the existing drive. So we'll be getting newer versions of freebsd, sendmail, mailman, mysql, php, etc. etc. etc. My intent is to throw the drives into a small test system and put that at the datacenter and configure/install everything remotely. Then when it's time to switchover, I should be able to just move the drives (and controller) from one system to the other and come back up. Then I'll start the process of migrating historical data from one to the other (by putting the old drive into the test machine). I'll give the list a big heads up when I get around to scheduling this. After this upgrade is done, I will be looking for volunteers (web design people) to see about giving the classiccmp site a facelift, possibly adding some new features, and (finally) cleaning up the archives. Regards, Jay West From mross666 at hotmail.com Mon Nov 1 15:08:56 2004 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:26 2005 Subject: URGENT - Big IBM Iron rescue - System/38, Ohio Message-ID: (CC'd to a couple of System/38-seekers I know of...) Hope someone can jump on this... a guy has to dispose of a complete System/38 setup, believed working - by the weekend. Miamisburg, Ohio. The unit has to be cleared by Monday of next week. He wants an arrangement in place by Wednesday, but the actual removal can wait as late as the weekend - so long as the collector is 'damn sure' he WILL turn up as promised! He tried the stuff on ebay at too-high prices, got no bidders - but at least you can see the pics (System, disk, tape, printer): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5134099178 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5134099696 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5134100141 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5134100797 Someone needs to move *fast* on this - contact the guy immediately. If no-one steps up to the plate, at minimum I'll try to get him to remove the boards from the /38, so I have a spare set for mine. Contact is Mitch - email miller@keyways.com or call him - 937-902-8392 I'd appreciate it if anyone is seriously interested, let me know too. The guy will want some money; he has an offer for the whole lot from a scrapyard, and they'll take it away if we don't. Good luck. Mike http://www.corestore.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 1 15:09:34 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:26 2005 Subject: new find: another HP 1000! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041101142918.008f5b80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <001901c4bee5$58ed6e40$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <3.0.6.32.20041030125123.0094db90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041101160934.00955100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I know it's bad form to answer one's own question but I've been researching the HP 1000 and found some interesting items. First it appears that this one has had the HP 12823F F series Enhancement/Upgrade Kit installed. The kit consist of three parts; (1) Base Instruction Set upgrade (ROMs 012117-80016, 80017 and 80018 on the CPU card). (2) Scientific Instruction Set (ROM set A on the FEM board). (3) Fast Fortran Processor Set (Set B on the FEM board). Set C on the FEM board is the Vector Instruction Set. Sets G and H are something called RTE-6/VM Operating System EMA/VMA Firmware. This is looking more and more like a LOADED machine! Joe At 02:29 PM 11/1/04 -0500, I wrote: > > The FEM board has five sets of ROMs. Here's the list: Set A: 5180-0141 >Unmarked 5180-0143. Set B: 12883-80019 12823-80020 12823-80021. Set C: >12824-80007 12824-80008 12824-80009. Sets D, E and F are empty. Set G: >92084-80004 92084-80005 92084-80006. Set H: 92084-80001 92084-80002 >92084-80003. > > Can you tell me what these are for? Don't forget that this is an F >series and has the FPU so they may be for it. > > > > No FAB board. > > The Boot ROMs are PN: 5081-2361, 12992-80005, 1816-0857 and 1816-0962. >According to the ROM manual the first two are the 7900/7905 Standard Boot >Loader and CS/80 Disk Boot Loader. I couldn't find a match on the PNs for >the other two. Looking inside the front panel it looks like the ROMs are: >791(unreadable), console, 7914 Disk and 7970 Tape. It looks like they're in >the wrong order. It's not surprising, the markings have been crossed out >and written over several times. > > > Also found out last night that this one has the High-Performace Memory >cards (12749H) and HP Memory Controller (2102E). Also I set the system up >today and ran the memory test. Everything works perfectly. > > Joe > >At 08:02 PM 10/30/04 -0500, you wrote: >>Joe R> wrote... >>> I checked and the >>> CPU section has a DCPC card, Memory Protect Bd, Mem Bd, four 256KW memory >>> cards and a 2102E Memory Controller. The IO side is full of cards. >> >>What's more interesting than the cards, is the firmware chips on the FEM >>board, and on the FAB board underneath the cpu card (if it has one). >> >>Jay >> >> >> > From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Nov 1 15:25:46 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:26 2005 Subject: require input form respected peers :^) In-Reply-To: <200411010907.JAA06587@citadel.metropolis.local> References: <326BCDE6-2BA9-11D9-85C8-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <200411010907.JAA06587@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <20041101212546.GA27614@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Nov 01, 2004 at 09:07:47AM +0000, Stan Barr wrote: > Hi, > > Ron Hudso said: > > > > ( .)v(. ) [my beady eyes crossing trying to read 80x24 off a watch] > > > > I get the same effect reading the screen of the Cybiko I use as a > portable terminal...even a 4x6 font won't get 80 columns on it's > 2-inch screen though! Hey... another Cybiko user. I picked up a couple a couple of years ago for $0.01 on eBay (plus $12 S&H, so it balanced out). Unfortunately, one of the batteries in one of the units was utterly hosed, and the batteries cost more than I paid for the unit (wierd, rectangular F-6? sized NiMHs). My purpose in getting two was to play with one as an RF base-station/internet repeater, so what I guess I'll (eventually) do is to remove the F-6 batteries from one, remove the back cover, and use it with standard AA-sized NiMHs as a non-portable unit. In the meantime, I've used my portable Cybiko as an eBook reader, and a few other trivial tasks. Fun little toy - especially fun is the Atmel microcontroller in there along with the main processor. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 01-Nov-2004 21:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -58.5 F (-50.3 C) Windchill -85.40 F (-65.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 6.9 kts Grid 009 Barometer 668.3 mb (11070. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 1 15:28:43 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:26 2005 Subject: new find: an Intel MDS 800 In-Reply-To: <10686870.1099308310340.JavaMail.root@statler.psp.pas.earth link.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041101162843.00950590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> It's still not working for me. The Legal Notices and Press Releases links work but not the other two. Odd. Joe At 06:25 AM 11/1/04 -0500, you wrote: >it works just fine and I just cut and pasted it from browsing just before I sent the message. I also just cut and pasted the link just a moment ago that I gave out and it works fine. Try going just to www.Intel.com - if you can't get there it could be a Florida issue (I am in Virginia). Every once in awhile, the lines appear to go down that connect the US together. If the browser said it was trying to open the site then the DNS server supplied an IP address to your browser and there is a line issue to the west coast. If it said it was trying to find the site, then you were not able to get to the DNS server to translate the name to an IP address and your connection to the DNS server is in question. > >Of course it could be a browser issue if you aren't using that OS and browser that lots of people seem to blast all the time... (I don't recall your preference) > >best regards, Steve > >-----Original Message----- >From: "Joe R." >Sent: Oct 31, 2004 9:57 PM >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >Subject: Re: new find: an Intel MDS 800 > >At 03:36 PM 10/31/04 -0500, you wrote: >>Intel has a complete chronology of all their devices and systems at: >> >>http://www.intel.com/intel/intelis/museum/archives/timeline/ > > > It's a dead link when I try it. How long since you've looked at it? I >remember seeing a chronological list from Intel a couple of years ago but >it only including ICs. > > Joe > >> >> >> >>> How sure are you of these dates? I've been trying to find out exactly >>>when the various models were released but never found found anything that >>>was authoritative. >>> >>> Joe >> >> > > From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Nov 1 15:38:19 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:26 2005 Subject: URGENT - Big IBM Iron rescue - System/38, Ohio In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041101213819.GB27614@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Nov 01, 2004 at 09:08:56PM +0000, Mike Ross wrote: > (CC'd to a couple of System/38-seekers I know of...) > > Hope someone can jump on this... a guy has to dispose of a complete > System/38 setup, believed working - by the weekend. Miamisburg, Ohio. Arrrgh! _Normally_ that's in my backyard - and I even have machines that will talk to an S/38 via HASP and/or 3780. > Contact is Mitch - email miller@keyways.com or call him - 937-902-8392 ...and I even know the guy. Oh, well... that's the price I pay for my wanderings... sometimes a sweet deal appears on your doorstep when you are far, far from it. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 01-Nov-2004 21:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -57.6 F (-49.8 C) Windchill -75.59 F (-59.8 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 3.5 kts Grid 021 Barometer 668.4 mb (11066. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From cb at mythtech.net Mon Nov 1 15:40:14 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:26 2005 Subject: require input form respected peers :^) Message-ID: >In the meantime, I've used my portable Cybiko as an eBook reader, and a few >other trivial tasks. I know this is going off topic, but how well does it work as an eBook reader? I'm looking for something fairly portable for ebooks. I have stacks of books and manuals in either HTML, Text, CHM (crappy HTML), or PDF format. And I haven't read them all yet because currently my computer is the best place to read them, which conflicts with me getting most of my reading done on the crapper. So I either need some portable unit to start reading ebooks, or I have to install a computer in my bathroom... humm... no for the sake of my marriage, I'd better just go with a portable unit. I've used my Palm for the text files, but the formatted HTML, and CHM files don't work so well on that small of a screen. And my Palm can't handle PDF. Is the Cybiko any better of a screen then a Palm? Can it do anything beyond plain text? -chris From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Nov 1 15:44:38 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:26 2005 Subject: new find: an Intel MDS 800 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041101162843.00950590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041101162843.00950590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1099345478.18959.46.camel@weka.localdomain> It works here, sort-of - kept on getting timeouts and I had to reload the page three times before it gave me the whole lot. Then I found out it was a bunch of links to pdf files (rather than a nice timeline on a website) at which point I gave up :-} On Mon, 2004-11-01 at 16:28 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > It's still not working for me. The Legal Notices and Press Releases links > work but not the other two. Odd. > > Joe > > > At 06:25 AM 11/1/04 -0500, you wrote: > >it works just fine and I just cut and pasted it from browsing just before > I sent the message. I also just cut and pasted the link just a moment ago > that I gave out and it works fine. Try going just to www.Intel.com - if you > can't get there it could be a Florida issue (I am in Virginia). Every once > in awhile, the lines appear to go down that connect the US together. If the > browser said it was trying to open the site then the DNS server supplied an > IP address to your browser and there is a line issue to the west coast. If > it said it was trying to find the site, then you were not able to get to > the DNS server to translate the name to an IP address and your connection > to the DNS server is in question. > > > >Of course it could be a browser issue if you aren't using that OS and > browser that lots of people seem to blast all the time... (I don't recall > your preference) > > > >best regards, Steve > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: "Joe R." > >Sent: Oct 31, 2004 9:57 PM > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > >Subject: Re: new find: an Intel MDS 800 > > > >At 03:36 PM 10/31/04 -0500, you wrote: > >>Intel has a complete chronology of all their devices and systems at: > >> > >>http://www.intel.com/intel/intelis/museum/archives/timeline/ > > > > > > It's a dead link when I try it. How long since you've looked at it? I > >remember seeing a chronological list from Intel a couple of years ago but > >it only including ICs. > > > > Joe > > > >> > >> > >> > >>> How sure are you of these dates? I've been trying to find out exactly > >>>when the various models were released but never found found anything that > >>>was authoritative. > >>> > >>> Joe > >> > >> > > > > -- "We've had a lot of loonies around this place, but you're the first one who thought the sunrise was made out of stale beer. Now are you going to pick up your flute and leave, or shall I part your hair with this crowbar?" From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Nov 1 15:59:48 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:26 2005 Subject: require input form respected peers :^) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041101215948.GA3654@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Nov 01, 2004 at 04:40:14PM -0500, chris wrote: > >In the meantime, I've used my portable Cybiko as an eBook reader, and a few > >other trivial tasks. > > I know this is going off topic, but how well does it work as an eBook > reader? Not terrific. I'd think that any Palm Pilot would be better. I was just goofing around with the Cybiko, trying to find interesting things to so with it. No backlight doesn't help for reading in bed. > I've used my Palm for the text files, but the formatted HTML, and CHM > files don't work so well on that small of a screen. And my Palm can't > handle PDF. Is the Cybiko any better of a screen then a Palm? Can it do > anything beyond plain text? I would rate the Palm screen as better than the Cybiko screen -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 01-Nov-2004 21:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -56.7 F (-49.3 C) Windchill -78.09 F (-61.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 4.6 kts Grid 005 Barometer 668.6 mb (11058. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From cb at mythtech.net Mon Nov 1 16:29:40 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: require input form respected peers :^) Message-ID: >Not terrific. I'd think that any Palm Pilot would be better. I was just >goofing around with the Cybiko, trying to find interesting things to so >with it. No backlight doesn't help for reading in bed. Ok, thanks, so I'm back at square one. I think maybe I'll buy an old tablet PC on ebay. I can probably pick up an early pentium unit for $100 or so, and speed isn't important for reading a PDF. thanks! -chris From cvendel at att.net Mon Nov 1 20:58:10 2004 From: cvendel at att.net (cvendel@att.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: Xerox GUI on a PC??? Message-ID: <110220040258.2261.4186F7C100043987000008D52160466648040A0B020A900C@att.net> Is there a PD program that can be downloaded to run a PC to give it the look & feel of the original Xerox Altos or Star 8010 ??? Curt From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Nov 1 21:29:21 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: new find: another HP 1000! References: <001901c4bee5$58ed6e40$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP><3.0.6.32.20041030125123.0094db90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041101160934.00955100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000d01c4c08c$251eb3a0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Joe wrote... > First it appears > that this one has had the HP 12823F F series Enhancement/Upgrade Kit > installed. The kit consist of three parts; (1) Base Instruction Set > upgrade > (ROMs 012117-80016, 80017 and 80018 on the CPU card). (2) Scientific > Instruction Set (ROM set A on the FEM board). (3) Fast Fortran Processor > Set (Set B on the FEM board). Set C on the FEM board is the Vector > Instruction Set. I'm not an expert on the F series, but as I understand it I think the above options are standard on the F? But anyways, that's pretty much loaded with everything I've heard of. > Sets G and H are something called RTE-6/VM Operating > System EMA/VMA Firmware. Sweet... I have a couple sets of that firmware too. Means you can run RTE-6/VM. I'm gonna have to pull out those manuals some day :) But then, I've never been a huge fan of RTE from what I saw of it. I like something more "general purpose". HP-IPL/OS looks promising. Or maybe I'll play around and write something new, perhaps modled after primos. Great catch in any case Joe. Jay From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Mon Nov 1 22:33:03 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: new find: another HP 1000! In-Reply-To: <000d01c4c08c$251eb3a0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <001901c4bee5$58ed6e40$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP><3.0.6.32.20041030125123.0094db90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041101160934.00955100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <000d01c4c08c$251eb3a0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <48B252DA-2C88-11D9-85C8-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Nov 1, 2004, at 7:29 PM, Jay West wrote: > Joe wrote... >> First it appears >> that this one has had the HP 12823F F series Enhancement/Upgrade Kit >> installed. The kit consist of three parts; (1) Base Instruction Set >> upgrade >> (ROMs 012117-80016, 80017 and 80018 on the CPU card). (2) Scientific >> Instruction Set (ROM set A on the FEM board). (3) Fast Fortran >> Processor >> Set (Set B on the FEM board). Set C on the FEM board is the Vector >> Instruction Set. > I'm not an expert on the F series, but as I understand it I think the > above options are standard on the F? But anyways, that's pretty much > loaded with everything I've heard of. > >> Sets G and H are something called RTE-6/VM Operating >> System EMA/VMA Firmware. > Sweet... I have a couple sets of that firmware too. Means you can run > RTE-6/VM. I'm gonna have to pull out those manuals some day :) But > then, I've never been a huge fan of RTE from what I saw of it. I like > something more "general purpose". HP-IPL/OS looks promising. Or maybe > I'll play around and write something new, perhaps modled after primos. > Great catch in any case Joe. > Would RTE be used in batch mode, with punched cards? Would it run with one of the flat cartridge disk drives (1 platter in a flat round case)? > Jay > > > From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 1 23:51:19 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: require input form respected peers :^) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Nov 2004, chris wrote: > >Not terrific. I'd think that any Palm Pilot would be better. I was just > >goofing around with the Cybiko, trying to find interesting things to so > >with it. No backlight doesn't help for reading in bed. > > Ok, thanks, so I'm back at square one. > > I think maybe I'll buy an old tablet PC on ebay. I can probably pick up > an early pentium unit for $100 or so, and speed isn't important for > reading a PDF. If anyone ever made a PDF reader for the Psion Series 5 then that's what you want. Ah, here you go: http://www.mbrainsoftware.com/Psion/Pdf/Pdf.htm -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Nov 2 01:49:26 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: require input form respected peers :^) In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Re: require input form respected peers :^)" (Nov 1, 21:25) References: <326BCDE6-2BA9-11D9-85C8-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <200411010907.JAA06587@citadel.metropolis.local> <20041101212546.GA27614@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <10411020749.ZM23644@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 1 2004, 21:25, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Mon, Nov 01, 2004 at 09:07:47AM +0000, Stan Barr wrote: > > I get the same effect reading the screen of the Cybiko I use as a > > portable terminal...even a 4x6 font won't get 80 columns on it's > > 2-inch screen though! > > Hey... another Cybiko user. I picked up a couple a couple of years ago > for $0.01 on eBay (plus $12 S&H, so it balanced out). I've got a few as well. Interesting devices. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Nov 2 02:00:59 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: require input form respected peers :^) In-Reply-To: chris "Re: require input form respected peers :^)" (Nov 1, 17:29) References: Message-ID: <10411020800.ZM23681@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 1 2004, 17:29, chris wrote: > >Not terrific. I'd think that any Palm Pilot would be better. I was just > >goofing around with the Cybiko, trying to find interesting things to so > >with it. No backlight doesn't help for reading in bed. > > Ok, thanks, so I'm back at square one. > > I think maybe I'll buy an old tablet PC on ebay. I can probably pick up > an early pentium unit for $100 or so, and speed isn't important for > reading a PDF. Another possibility would be a Sharp Zaurus. They run Linux. I have an SL-5600, which I use with Kermit (serial port) and telnet (Ethernet or wireless) for talking to network switches, but it has a good browser and you can get a PDF viewer for it. I've not used the PDF viewer so I don't know how good it is. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Gary.Messick at itt.com Tue Nov 2 07:34:21 2004 From: Gary.Messick at itt.com (Messick, Gary) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: Stuff Available Ft. Wayne IN Message-ID: <5ECE3D898910AC4497A172FAFA33D2CA0AC493@ACDFWMAIL1.acd.de.ittind.com> Equipment just saw outside at a surplus dealer: 2 Xerox 820's of some type, 1 DEC Minc-11, 1 DEC PDP-11/73, 1 Osborne-1, 1 DEC Gi-Gi, 4 Wang MVPs with Terminals and Peripherals. No connection to dealer. Contact: Pembelton Electronics, Inc. Ft Wayne, IN 46808 (260) 484-1812 ************************************ This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Industries, Inc. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT Industries accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. ************************************ From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Nov 2 09:02:49 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: Stuff Available Ft. Wayne IN In-Reply-To: <5ECE3D898910AC4497A172FAFA33D2CA0AC493@ACDFWMAIL1.acd.de.ittind.com> References: <5ECE3D898910AC4497A172FAFA33D2CA0AC493@ACDFWMAIL1.acd.de.ittind.com> Message-ID: >Equipment just saw outside at a surplus dealer: > >2 Xerox 820's of some type, >1 DEC Minc-11, >1 DEC PDP-11/73, >1 Osborne-1, >1 DEC Gi-Gi, >4 Wang MVPs with Terminals and Peripherals. Oh, now that hurts! I hope someone can at least grab the DEC HW! Especially the Gi-Gi, and MINC! Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Tue Nov 2 10:16:47 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: Stuff Available Ft. Wayne IN In-Reply-To: References: <5ECE3D898910AC4497A172FAFA33D2CA0AC493@ACDFWMAIL1.acd.de.ittind.com> Message-ID: <9833D0FE-2CEA-11D9-8438-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Nov 2, 2004, at 7:02 AM, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> Equipment just saw outside at a surplus dealer: >> >> 2 Xerox 820's of some type, >> 1 DEC Minc-11, >> 1 DEC PDP-11/73, >> 1 Osborne-1, >> 1 DEC Gi-Gi, >> 4 Wang MVPs with Terminals and Peripherals. > > Oh, now that hurts! I hope someone can at least grab the DEC HW! > Especially the Gi-Gi, and MINC! What's a Gi-Gi? I googled but all I got was a bunch of italian sites. > > Zane > > -- > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue Nov 2 10:24:12 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: Stuff Available Ft. Wayne IN In-Reply-To: <9833D0FE-2CEA-11D9-8438-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> References: <5ECE3D898910AC4497A172FAFA33D2CA0AC493@ACDFWMAIL1.acd.de.ittind.com> <9833D0FE-2CEA-11D9-8438-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <200411021124.12414.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Tuesday 02 November 2004 11:16, Ron Hudson wrote: > On Nov 2, 2004, at 7:02 AM, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >> Equipment just saw outside at a surplus dealer: > >> > >> 2 Xerox 820's of some type, > >> 1 DEC Minc-11, > >> 1 DEC PDP-11/73, > >> 1 Osborne-1, > >> 1 DEC Gi-Gi, > >> 4 Wang MVPs with Terminals and Peripherals. > > > > Oh, now that hurts! I hope someone can at least grab the DEC HW! > > Especially the Gi-Gi, and MINC! > > What's a Gi-Gi? I googled but all I got was a bunch of italian > sites. A picture (courtesy of google): http://www.cis.rit.edu/~jerry/Hardware/museum/pics/Gigi.jpg Basically DEC's version of an Apple ][ / C64, with 8-color graphics (at NTSC compatible frame rates), that had a built-in copy of BASIC and a color terminal emulator. Neat little boxes, I've got one laying around that I ran across the other day. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Nov 2 10:26:53 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: Stuff Available Ft. Wayne IN References: <5ECE3D898910AC4497A172FAFA33D2CA0AC493@ACDFWMAIL1.acd.de.ittind.com> <9833D0FE-2CEA-11D9-8438-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <16775.46413.704460.136779@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ron" == Ron Hudson writes: Ron> On Nov 2, 2004, at 7:02 AM, Zane H. Healy wrote: >>> Equipment just saw outside at a surplus dealer: >>> >>> 2 Xerox 820's of some type, 1 DEC Minc-11, 1 DEC PDP-11/73, 1 >>> Osborne-1, 1 DEC Gi-Gi, 4 Wang MVPs with Terminals and >>> Peripherals. >> Oh, now that hurts! I hope someone can at least grab the DEC HW! >> Especially the Gi-Gi, and MINC! Ron> What's a Gi-Gi? I googled but all I got was a bunch of italian Ron> sites. VK100 -- I think "Gigi" was the codename that snuck out. Some vague memory says that it came out of the education producs group at DEC. It looks like a fat VT100 keyboard with a video connection coming out the back. It's a very crude graphics terminal -- implements an early version of ReGis (a DEC proprietary graphics protocol). It has color -- so long as you only want a few (I think it had about 8). A VT125 is a vastly superior graphics terminal -- that should give you some idea... paul From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Tue Nov 2 10:50:40 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: Stuff Available Ft. Wayne IN In-Reply-To: <200411021124.12414.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <5ECE3D898910AC4497A172FAFA33D2CA0AC493@ACDFWMAIL1.acd.de.ittind.com> <9833D0FE-2CEA-11D9-8438-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <200411021124.12414.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <53F5FD66-2CEF-11D9-8438-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Nov 2, 2004, at 8:24 AM, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Tuesday 02 November 2004 11:16, Ron Hudson wrote: >> On Nov 2, 2004, at 7:02 AM, Zane H. Healy wrote: >>>> Equipment just saw outside at a surplus dealer: >>>> >>>> 2 Xerox 820's of some type, >>>> 1 DEC Minc-11, >>>> 1 DEC PDP-11/73, >>>> 1 Osborne-1, >>>> 1 DEC Gi-Gi, >>>> 4 Wang MVPs with Terminals and Peripherals. >>> >>> Oh, now that hurts! I hope someone can at least grab the DEC HW! >>> Especially the Gi-Gi, and MINC! >> >> What's a Gi-Gi? I googled but all I got was a bunch of italian >> sites. > > A picture (courtesy of google): > http://www.cis.rit.edu/~jerry/Hardware/museum/pics/Gigi.jpg > > Basically DEC's version of an Apple ][ / C64, with 8-color graphics (at > NTSC compatible frame rates), that had a built-in copy of BASIC and a > color terminal emulator. Neat little boxes, I've got one laying around > that I ran across the other day. > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ > The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org > > Looks like they had some extra VT100 keyboards and asked themselves "what are we gonna do with these?" Is the basic like RSTS BASIC-Plus? From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Nov 2 10:55:35 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: facit n4000 service manual? Message-ID: <003501c4c0fc$c604a020$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> My facit N4000 reader/punch has developed a problem. Would anyone have a service manual for this unit? I have the operators guide but no service manual. When powering up the unit, about 20% of the time it comes on with "Err" in the display. If I turn it on and off a few times, it comes up correctly with "Off" in the display. Also, the test tape created in diag test #4 mostly, but not always, passes it's read in diag test#5. Can anyone help with a loan of the service manual or perhaps some advice? Regards, Jay West From emu at ecubics.com Tue Nov 2 11:11:50 2004 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: Stuff Available Ft. Wayne IN In-Reply-To: <200411021124.12414.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <5ECE3D898910AC4497A172FAFA33D2CA0AC493@ACDFWMAIL1.acd.de.ittind.com> <9833D0FE-2CEA-11D9-8438-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <200411021124.12414.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <4187BFD6.8080601@ecubics.com> Patrick Finnegan wrote: >>What's a Gi-Gi? I googled but all I got was a bunch of italian >>sites. > > Basically DEC's version of an Apple ][ / C64, with 8-color graphics (at > NTSC compatible frame rates), that had a built-in copy of BASIC and a > color terminal emulator. But guess who wrote the BASIC for it ? Even as DEC had pretty good BASIC interpreter inhouse ? From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Nov 2 11:43:49 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: "Old PC" emulation ? Message-ID: Hi, While reading up on my old Minix stuff (I found a box full of my old Minix backup floppies a couple of weeks ago), I tried to install them onto a PC I, um, borrowed from my customer (I was in Oslo for the week, and was bored at nights ;-) but that would not install. Obviously, old system software does not necessarily have to run on the new, current (PC) systems. Which led me to consider the impact of this on being able to run the older PC software anytime in the future. Can one still install a QNX box, or a Minix box, or an OS/2 system? So.. what it boils down to is: is there any (serious) project on doing a "old pc systems" emulation a la SimH, which does, for example, a pure IBM PC, PC/XT or PC/AT ? Just some random thoughts... Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From spectre at floodgap.com Tue Nov 2 12:07:25 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: "Old PC" emulation ? In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at "Nov 2, 4 06:43:49 pm" Message-ID: <200411021807.KAA11250@floodgap.com> > So.. what it boils down to is: is there any (serious) project on doing > a "old pc systems" emulation a la SimH, which does, for example, a > pure IBM PC, PC/XT or PC/AT ? Isn't there something like this in MESS? -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- The Devil can cite Scripture for his purpose. -- Shakespeare --------------- From vcf at siconic.com Tue Nov 2 11:59:38 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: "Old PC" emulation ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > So.. what it boils down to is: is there any (serious) project on doing > a "old pc systems" emulation a la SimH, which does, for example, a > pure IBM PC, PC/XT or PC/AT ? You're not kidding? How funny. Minix will run on the PC/AT, I'm sure. As far as "old pc systems" emulator, can you get any less specific? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mcesari at comcast.net Tue Nov 2 12:09:02 2004 From: mcesari at comcast.net (Mike Cesari) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: "Old PC" emulation ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46C8A073-2CFA-11D9-A36C-000A956B167C@comcast.net> On Nov 2, 2004, at 10:43 AM, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > So.. what it boils down to is: is there any (serious) project on doing > a "old pc systems" emulation a la SimH, which does, for example, a > pure IBM PC, PC/XT or PC/AT ? > Try Bochs: http://bochs.sourceforge.net/ Mike From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Nov 2 12:07:55 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: "Old PC" emulation ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > So.. what it boils down to is: is there any (serious) project on doing > > a "old pc systems" emulation a la SimH, which does, for example, a > > pure IBM PC, PC/XT or PC/AT ? > > You're not kidding? How funny. No, I am not kidding. > Minix will run on the PC/AT, I'm sure. As far as "old pc systems" Yes, I know. I wrote about half of the system. > emulator, can you get any less specific? Eh? Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From kenziem at sympatico.ca Tue Nov 2 12:25:56 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: "Old PC" emulation ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200411021325.57487.kenziem@sympatico.ca> On Tuesday 02 November 2004 12:43, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Hi, > So.. what it boils down to is: is there any (serious) project on doing > a "old pc systems" emulation a la SimH, which does, for example, a > pure IBM PC, PC/XT or PC/AT ? I had a request yesterday for a 286 or earlier machine, the person says that somethings with the serial ports changed after that and the test equipment gets communication errors on newer machines. Another person wanted a 486-66 for a Massspectrometer I know there was a problem with games that were written using the system speed to time loops, I guess this also occurred in test equipment. -- Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 Machines to trade http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/trade.html Open Source Weekend http://www.osw.ca From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Nov 2 02:54:53 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: require input form respected peers :^) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 01 Nov 2004 21:25:46 GMT." <20041101212546.GA27614@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <200411020854.IAA19582@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Ethan Dicks said: > My purpose in getting two was to play with one as an RF base-station/internet > repeater, Something like that was sort of at the back of my mind too. > In the meantime, I've used my portable Cybiko as an eBook reader, and a few > other trivial tasks. I've got 3 of the things: two Classics, one with the MP3 player/SMC card interface (a local store was selling them off cheap - like 5 pounds, say $9 - and I'm a sucker for little gadgets!) and an Xtreme which I use as a portable MP3 player with a 128Mb card. Back in the days when I had 256 *bytes* to play with I never dreamed I would one day be able to put 128Mb in my pocket :-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Nov 2 12:47:20 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: "Old PC" emulation ? In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Nov 02, 2004 07:07:55 PM Message-ID: <200411021847.iA2IlKER001706@onyx.spiritone.com> > > > So.. what it boils down to is: is there any (serious) project on doing > > > a "old pc systems" emulation a la SimH, which does, for example, a > > > pure IBM PC, PC/XT or PC/AT ? > > > > You're not kidding? How funny. > No, I am not kidding. I for one don't doubt that you're not kidding. I've had mixed luck trying to run various OS's under Virtual PC on my Mac, you might have better luck with the PC version of Virtual PC. As has been mentioned there is BOCHS, and DOSBOX for Linux comes to mind (I'm not sure if all it can run is DOS or not. As PC's advance, it becomes harder for those of us with old software to continue to run it. Of course this is an issue for most computer systems, as there is always some app or another that doesn't want to run under current OS releases. Zane From vcf at siconic.com Tue Nov 2 12:52:30 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: "Old PC" emulation ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > emulator, can you get any less specific? > Eh? Well, "old pc system" can mean a thousand different things. What's your reference point? The bochs emulator that Mike posted a link to seems really nice. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Nov 2 12:57:15 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: Stuff Available Ft. Wayne IN References: <5ECE3D898910AC4497A172FAFA33D2CA0AC493@ACDFWMAIL1.acd.de.ittind.com><9833D0FE-2CEA-11D9-8438-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <200411021124.12414.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <006501c4c10d$c812fe00$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Zane wrote... >> >> 1 DEC Gi-Gi, I'd be most interested in the Gi-Gi. Any idea what he wants for it? Jay West From spectre at floodgap.com Tue Nov 2 13:20:28 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: "Old PC" emulation ? In-Reply-To: <200411021847.iA2IlKER001706@onyx.spiritone.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at "Nov 2, 4 10:47:20 am" Message-ID: <200411021920.LAA11070@floodgap.com> *ahem* http://www.mess.org/sysinfo/pc.htm Like I said ... MESS. :) -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- DON'T PANIC! --------------------------------------------------------------- From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Nov 2 13:01:10 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: "Old PC" emulation ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > > emulator, can you get any less specific? > > Eh? > > Well, "old pc system" can mean a thousand different things. What's your > reference point? That is why I narrowed it down to "IBM PC, PC/XT or PC/AT" in my message, wouldn't you think? > The bochs emulator that Mike posted a link to seems really nice. yes, looking at it right now. It does seem a bit modern (386, PCI) but is useful as a starting point. --f From bert at brothom.nl Tue Nov 2 13:10:48 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (bert@brothom.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: 'Old PC' emulation ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1075.195.64.88.124.1099422648.squirrel@office.brothom.nl> Hi Fred, > So.. what it boils down to is: is there any (serious) project on doing > a "old pc systems" emulation a la SimH, which does, for example, a > pure IBM PC, PC/XT or PC/AT ? Andy once told me (us) that in the beginning of Minix he got it almost finished, but that there was one weird instability problem. To solve this, he wrote an emulator that completely emulated a PC (I think back in those days that must have been a PC/XT or something like that, he talked about hardware without harddrive, only 2 5,25" disk drives) to figure out what happened. To his disappointment it didn't give him a solution, as the system behaved stable in his emulator. In the end, someone pointed him in the direction of spurious interrupts. In the end that was the cause of the instability. Andy said that the code of his simulator must be around on the internet. Perhaps you can find it and compile a version to run on Windows. Maybe it's even on one of your disks! Besides that, I would like to point out that current releases of Minix are documented to run on Boochs. Bert From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Nov 2 13:12:05 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: "Old PC" emulation ? Message-ID: <200411021912.LAA21991@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Mike Kenzie" > >On Tuesday 02 November 2004 12:43, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >> Hi, > > >> So.. what it boils down to is: is there any (serious) project on doing >> a "old pc systems" emulation a la SimH, which does, for example, a >> pure IBM PC, PC/XT or PC/AT ? > >I had a request yesterday for a 286 or earlier machine, the person says >that somethings with the serial ports changed after that and the test >equipment gets communication errors on newer machines. Hi For serial, it might be that one just needs to keep windows from fiddling with the port when another program is using it. This may not be a processor dependent issue. Dwight > >Another person wanted a 486-66 for a Massspectrometer > >I know there was a problem with games that were written using the system >speed to time loops, I guess this also occurred in test equipment. > > > > > >-- >Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 >Machines to trade http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/trade.html >Open Source Weekend http://www.osw.ca > From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Nov 2 13:25:25 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: Stuff Available Ft. Wayne IN References: <5ECE3D898910AC4497A172FAFA33D2CA0AC493@ACDFWMAIL1.acd.de.ittind.com> Message-ID: <009a01c4c111$b49c8d60$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Gary; Any chance the Gi-Gi would be available and you could grab it for me? I'd be interested in it! Regards, Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Messick, Gary" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 7:34 AM Subject: Stuff Available Ft. Wayne IN > > Equipment just saw outside at a surplus dealer: > > 2 Xerox 820's of some type, > 1 DEC Minc-11, > 1 DEC PDP-11/73, > 1 Osborne-1, > 1 DEC Gi-Gi, > 4 Wang MVPs with Terminals and Peripherals. > > No connection to dealer. > > Contact: > > Pembelton Electronics, Inc. > Ft Wayne, IN 46808 > (260) 484-1812 > > ************************************ > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended > solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. > If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please > note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those > of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Industries, > Inc. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the > presence of viruses. ITT Industries accepts no liability for any damage > caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. > ************************************ > > > From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Nov 2 13:41:48 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: Stuff Available Ft. Wayne IN In-Reply-To: <9833D0FE-2CEA-11D9-8438-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> References: <5ECE3D898910AC4497A172FAFA33D2CA0AC493@ACDFWMAIL1.acd.de.ittind.com> <9833D0FE-2CEA-11D9-8438-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <20041102194148.GC27437@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Nov 02, 2004 at 08:16:47AM -0800, Ron Hudson wrote: > >Oh, now that hurts! I hope someone can at least grab the DEC HW! > >Especially the Gi-Gi, and MINC! > > What's a Gi-Gi? I googled but all I got was a bunch of italian sites. It's a DEC graphics terminal - there's some Gigi-specific programs for TOPS-20, I know. It's more-or-less a precursor to the VT240/241, but IIRC, it has an accessible BASIC interpreter for its internal 8-bit processor. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 02-Nov-2004 19:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -58.8 F (-50.4 C) Windchill -82.2 F (-63.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 5.3 kts Grid 053 Barometer 665.7 mb (11172. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Tue Nov 2 14:50:36 2004 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: "Old PC" emulation ? References: <200411021325.57487.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <016f01c4c11d$9ae33390$7900a8c0@athlon1200> I've not come across it with serial ports but it's a common problem with older hardware that connected to the system bus- I have several older GPIB cards that won't run in anything later than a 286 and an EPROM burner card that won't operate in anything later than a genuine XT. DaveB NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Kenzie" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 7:25 AM Subject: Re: "Old PC" emulation ? > On Tuesday 02 November 2004 12:43, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >> Hi, > > >> So.. what it boils down to is: is there any (serious) project on >> doing >> a "old pc systems" emulation a la SimH, which does, for example, a >> pure IBM PC, PC/XT or PC/AT ? > > I had a request yesterday for a 286 or earlier machine, the person > says > that somethings with the serial ports changed after that and the > test > equipment gets communication errors on newer machines. > > Another person wanted a 486-66 for a Massspectrometer > > I know there was a problem with games that were written using the > system > speed to time loops, I guess this also occurred in test equipment. > > > > > > -- > Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 > Machines to trade http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/trade.html > Open Source Weekend http://www.osw.ca > From aek at spies.com Tue Nov 2 15:05:00 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: facit n4000 service manual? Message-ID: <20041102210500.1282D42D5@spies.com> > Would anyone have a service manual for this unit? -- Jeff Moffatt (or maybe Frank) should have a copy From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 2 15:20:10 2004 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: "Old PC" emulation ? In-Reply-To: <200411021847.iA2IlKER001706@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <1gmmkv0.1l332vy11tlensM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Zane H. Healy wrote: > you might have better luck > with the PC version of Virtual PC. http://weblogs.asp.net/virtual_pc_guy/ This is the weblog of the Virtual PC (Intel version) product manager. He loves getting old software and operating systems running under VPC (Intel). -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Nov 2 15:40:17 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: "Old PC" emulation ? In-Reply-To: <016f01c4c11d$9ae33390$7900a8c0@athlon1200> References: <200411021325.57487.kenziem@sympatico.ca> <016f01c4c11d$9ae33390$7900a8c0@athlon1200> Message-ID: <20041102133738.A86277@shell.lmi.net> On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Dave Brown wrote: > I've not come across it with serial ports but it's a common problem > with older hardware that connected to the system bus- I have several > older GPIB cards that won't run in anything later than a 286 and an > EPROM burner card that won't operate in anything later than a genuine > XT. The Cordata/Corona Data Systems laser printer interface card is for PC/XT. Attempting to install the software on 286 or above gives a message telling you not to, and mentioning a 286 version of the board that may or may not have ever existed. Is the hardware actually incompatible? Or is it a bogus test by the software? From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Nov 2 16:03:40 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: "Old PC" emulation ? In-Reply-To: <20041102133738.A86277@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: All, Thanks for all the replies. I decided to go and play with both the BOCHS open source emulator, as well as the Microsoft Virtual PC one. BOCHS does not do anything smaller than a 386, as it is an IA32 emulator, but it is opensource. MS VPC does do 286, but is a commercial product. Not a problem for me, since I am a Solution Provider. :) Will keep y'all informed on progress. Still making image copies of all those (~500 !) diskettes.. :) Cheers, Fred From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Nov 2 16:21:44 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: "Old PC" emulation ? In-Reply-To: References: <20041102133738.A86277@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041102162003.06245d28@pc> At 04:03 PM 11/2/2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >BOCHS does not do anything smaller than a 386, as it is an IA32 >emulator, but it is opensource. MS VPC does do 286, but is a >commercial product. Not a problem for me, since I am a Solution >Provider. :) This might be a good time to mention the Microsoft Action Pack, a way to get about $10,000 of their products for $300, including VPC: http://desktopengineer.com/article.php?story=2004022806325233 - John From Pres at macro-inc.com Tue Nov 2 16:35:22 2004 From: Pres at macro-inc.com (Ed Kelleher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: "Old PC" emulation ? In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041102162003.06245d28@pc> References: <20041102133738.A86277@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041102173452.057bcb10@192.168.0.1> At 05:21 PM 11/2/2004, you wrote: >This might be a good time to mention the Microsoft Action Pack, >a way to get about $10,000 of their products for $300, including VPC: > >http://desktopengineer.com/article.php?story=2004022806325233 > >- John Cool, but right off, using Mozilla I can see there'll be problems. :-) They're going to want you to get all the way in bed with them. Ed K. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Nov 2 17:50:03 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: GIGI (was: RE: Stuff Available Ft. Wayne IN) In-Reply-To: <20041102194148.GC27437@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks > Sent: 02 November 2004 19:42 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Stuff Available Ft. Wayne IN > > On Tue, Nov 02, 2004 at 08:16:47AM -0800, Ron Hudson wrote: > > >Oh, now that hurts! I hope someone can at least grab the DEC HW! > > >Especially the Gi-Gi, and MINC! > > > > What's a Gi-Gi? I googled but all I got was a bunch of > italian sites. > > It's a DEC graphics terminal - there's some Gigi-specific > programs for TOPS-20, I know. It's more-or-less a precursor > to the VT240/241, but IIRC, it has an accessible BASIC > interpreter for its internal 8-bit processor. The DEC VK100 (aka GiGi) was a ReGIS graphics terminal from around 1978 so it's not VT100 compatible, only VT52. Apparently it has enough power to plot the Datatrieve Wombat so this means I need to get an old version of Datatrieve going just so I can do that :) It's Intel 8085 based and runs Microsloth BASIC depending on how it's powered up I think. Search for 'dec vk100' instead of 'gigi' and you'll have more success. http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Digital/gigi/gigi.php One of these days I'll get the required PSU smoothing caps to get mine going again; it should run without them of course but it made such a noise when they went off I want to make sure they're in place before I power up again..... cheers, -- Adrian/Witchy Owner/Curator of Binary Dinosaurs, quite probably the UK's biggest private home computer collection www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online museum www.aaghverts.co.uk - *the* site for advert whinges! www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - former gothic shenanigans :( From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 2 17:44:14 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: "Old PC" emulation ? In-Reply-To: <200411021325.57487.kenziem@sympatico.ca> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041102184414.00a2b760@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:25 PM 11/2/04 -0500, you wrote: >On Tuesday 02 November 2004 12:43, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >> Hi, > > >> So.. what it boils down to is: is there any (serious) project on doing >> a "old pc systems" emulation a la SimH, which does, for example, a >> pure IBM PC, PC/XT or PC/AT ? > >I had a request yesterday for a 286 or earlier machine, the person says >that somethings with the serial ports changed after that and the test >equipment gets communication errors on newer machines. I expect that it's due to a timing issue. The HP-IL card that HP made for the PC has the same problem. I strongly suspect that "PC"s are getting old enough and scarce enough that they will shortly be valuable again. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 2 17:59:00 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: Up For Grabs: HP 13037 and HP 7925 disk drive Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041102185900.00a2ba00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I spotted these in a scrap place today. I brought the 13037 home but the 7925 was too big to fit in the car. The 13037 looks like it's in perfect condition and I have the cables for it. I think this stuff orginally came with the HP 1000 that I found last week. At any rate, I have 13037 interface cards in the 1000 and I'm willing to part with them too. The 7925 appears to be complete and in good condition. However it was dropped off of a truck and may be damaged internally. I don't know if the heads and spindle were locked or not. I have no way to haul or ship the 7925 so don't ask. It's located in central Florida so plan on coming and getting it if you want it. Anyone intersted in the 7925 needs to let me know ASAP so that I can make sure that it doesn't get torn apart for the gold scrap and aluminium. Best offer or trade me something that I can't live without :-) Joe PS it looks like these have the MAC interface. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 2 18:39:51 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: "Old PC" emulation ? In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Nov 2, 4 06:43:49 pm Message-ID: > Which led me to consider the impact of this on being able to run the > older PC software anytime in the future. Can one still install a > QNX box, or a Minix box, or an OS/2 system? Is there good reason (considering that schematics are available, and most, if not all, of the chips are not hard to find) not to be able to keep real IBM PCs, PC/XTs, and PC/ATs running? -tony From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Nov 2 18:56:18 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: "Old PC" emulation ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > Which led me to consider the impact of this on being able to run the > > older PC software anytime in the future. Can one still install a > > QNX box, or a Minix box, or an OS/2 system? > > Is there good reason (considering that schematics are available, and > most, if not all, of the chips are not hard to find) not to be able to > keep real IBM PCs, PC/XTs, and PC/ATs running? If you have one, no. What is hard to keep running is their disks, as usual. Plus - its kinda hard to play with old system software (such as Minix, in this case) if you're in a hotel room for many hours, and only have a laptop (or two) with you. Which is why an emulated environment is what I am looking for. (and yes, I do have "working" hardware right now) Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From brain at jbrain.com Tue Nov 2 19:08:02 2004 From: brain at jbrain.com (Jim Brain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: "Old PC" emulation ? In-Reply-To: <46C8A073-2CFA-11D9-A36C-000A956B167C@comcast.net> References: <46C8A073-2CFA-11D9-A36C-000A956B167C@comcast.net> Message-ID: <41882F72.4060501@jbrain.com> Mike Cesari wrote: > > On Nov 2, 2004, at 10:43 AM, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > >> >> So.. what it boils down to is: is there any (serious) project on doing >> a "old pc systems" emulation a la SimH, which does, for example, a >> pure IBM PC, PC/XT or PC/AT ? >> > > Try Bochs: http://bochs.sourceforge.net/ > > Mike There is also DOSBox: http://dosbox.sourceforge.net. Bochs tries to emulate newer machines, while DOSBox caters to older PC emulation. There is also QEMU: http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/qemu/ Though I have no first hand knowledge of this one. Jim -- Jim Brain, Brain Innovations brain@jbrain.com http://www.jbrain.com Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, Old CBM computers, and Good Times! From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Nov 2 19:22:41 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: "Old PC" emulation ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041102192112.04b65b10@pc> At 06:56 PM 11/2/2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >If you have one, no. What is hard to keep running is their disks, >as usual. Speaking of, did we ever find a way to connect a 5 1/4" disk drive via USB? - John From dholland at woh.rr.com Tue Nov 2 19:44:00 2004 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:27 2005 Subject: "Old PC" emulation ? In-Reply-To: <41882F72.4060501@jbrain.com> References: <46C8A073-2CFA-11D9-A36C-000A956B167C@comcast.net> <41882F72.4060501@jbrain.com> Message-ID: <1099446240.23419.10.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> On Tue, 2004-11-02 at 20:08, Jim Brain wrote: > > There is also DOSBox: http://dosbox.sourceforge.net. DOSbox is a "DOS" emulator specifically targetted to run older style DOS games. I know of no way to install a alternate OS in it. I suppose if your alternate OS could be loaded via a method like loadlin does for DOS & Linux, you might be able to get somewhere. It looks like DOSBox is at least a rudamentary 386 emulator as it'll run Ultima7, and Ultima8 (Which amazingly are on topic these days. :-) ) > > Bochs tries to emulate newer machines, while DOSBox caters to older PC > emulation. > > There is also QEMU: http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/qemu/ > Though I have no first hand knowledge of this one. Haven't heard too much about QEMU, other than (in a entirely OT sort of way) its a good way to run the x86 Linux NeverWinter Nights game server, under PPC Linux. :-> David > Jim > > > From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Nov 2 19:54:24 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: "Old PC" emulation ? In-Reply-To: <1099446240.23419.10.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> References: <46C8A073-2CFA-11D9-A36C-000A956B167C@comcast.net> <41882F72.4060501@jbrain.com> <1099446240.23419.10.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> Message-ID: <20041103015424.GA22895@mapo3.spole.gov> On Tue, Nov 02, 2004 at 08:44:00PM -0500, David Holland wrote: > > There is also DOSBox: http://dosbox.sourceforge.net. > > DOSbox is a "DOS" emulator specifically targetted to run older style DOS > games. I know of no way to install a alternate OS in it. I use it to play "XCom" under Linux. AFAIK, it's optimized for DOS calls, i.e. BIOS stuff, so I would not expect MINIX to work on it, since it's emulating a ROM API more than the hardware itself. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 03-Nov-2004 01:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -58.4 F (-50.2 C) Windchill -87.2 F (-66.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8 kts Grid 058 Barometer 665.3 mb (11184. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Nov 2 22:27:36 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: "Old PC" emulation ? In-Reply-To: <1099446240.23419.10.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> References: <46C8A073-2CFA-11D9-A36C-000A956B167C@comcast.net> <41882F72.4060501@jbrain.com> <1099446240.23419.10.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> Message-ID: >It looks like DOSBox is at least a rudamentary 386 emulator as it'll run >Ultima7, and Ultima8 (Which amazingly are on topic these days. :-) ) Anyone know if it will run "Warlords 2"? I'm half tempted to bring my PowerMac 8500/180 out of mothballs specifically to run that game :^) (which like most of my other favorite games is ontopic) I've been unable to get Warlords 2 running under VPC7 on the Mac :^( Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From wpileggi at juno.com Tue Nov 2 23:40:36 2004 From: wpileggi at juno.com (Bill Pileggi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: IBM PC: JUMPER Settings for Tandon and CDC full-height floppy drives Message-ID: <20041102.214130.507.413549@webmail03.lax.untd.com> Just went through the nightmare of setting the jumpers on the original CDC full-height drives for the IBM PC. As best as I can figure out, there are 3(!!) jumpers that have to be set on the top board. The Tandon drive is slightly better, there is only 1 jumper. Does anyone have the definative page(s) from the manual(s) or it's equivalent? Bill ________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! From vcf at siconic.com Tue Nov 2 23:50:17 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: Geek tattoos Message-ID: http://www.bmezine.com/tattoo/geek1.html There's even a guy that did the MITS logo! (see page 8) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Nov 3 02:29:13 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: IBM PC: JUMPER Settings for Tandon and CDC full-height floppy drives In-Reply-To: "Bill Pileggi" "IBM PC: JUMPER Settings for Tandon and CDC full-height floppy drives" (Nov 3, 5:40) References: <20041102.214130.507.413549@webmail03.lax.untd.com> Message-ID: <10411030829.ZM24617@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 3 2004, 5:40, Bill Pileggi wrote: > > Just went through the nightmare of setting the jumpers on the original CDC full-height drives for the IBM PC. As best as I can figure out, there are 3(!!) jumpers that have to be set on the top board. The Tandon drive is slightly better, there is only 1 jumper. Does anyone have the definative page(s) from the manual(s) or it's equivalent? Bill They're very similar. I should have manuals for both somewhere, and AFAIR both have pretty standard sets of jumpers. What do you want to know? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From gsutton9503 at wavecable.com Wed Nov 3 03:33:50 2004 From: gsutton9503 at wavecable.com (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: OT: Fastest Pentium Pro? Message-ID: <200411030133.50332.gsutton9503@wavecable.com> What was the fastest Pentium Pro CPU produced? On one site that a Jeeves search turned up, there was mention of the Pro getting up to 300MHz, yet another search result says that the fastest is 200MHz. Plus, the HP Vectra XA that I am tinkering with uses a Pentium Pro CPU (she currently has a 200), and according to the geeksheet for this motherboard (http://www.embeddedlogic.com/TH99/m/E-H/35391.htm) this board can take up to a 266. So, which is it? From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Wed Nov 3 05:00:45 2004 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: "Old PC" emulation ? References: <200411021325.57487.kenziem@sympatico.ca><016f01c4c11d$9ae33390$7900a8c0@athlon1200> <20041102133738.A86277@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <028501c4c194$5e64ee50$7900a8c0@athlon1200> I'm fairly sure it's really a software issue related to timing - I suppose there could be genuine hardware limitations (speed wise) with some of the early chips-although I doubt that bus speeds were fast enough to bring those limitations into play. DaveB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 10:40 AM Subject: Re: "Old PC" emulation ? > On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Dave Brown wrote: >> I've not come across it with serial ports but it's a common problem >> with older hardware that connected to the system bus- I have >> several >> older GPIB cards that won't run in anything later than a 286 and an >> EPROM burner card that won't operate in anything later than a >> genuine >> XT. > > The Cordata/Corona Data Systems laser printer interface card > is for PC/XT. Attempting to install the software on 286 or > above gives a message telling you not to, and mentioning a > 286 version of the board that may or may not have ever existed. > > Is the hardware actually incompatible? > Or is it a bogus test by the software? > > > > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Nov 3 05:47:18 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: OT: Fastest Pentium Pro? In-Reply-To: <200411030133.50332.gsutton9503@wavecable.com> References: <200411030133.50332.gsutton9503@wavecable.com> Message-ID: <1099482438.21848.1.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-11-03 at 02:33 -0700, Scarletdown wrote: > What was the fastest Pentium Pro CPU produced? On one site that a > Jeeves search turned up, there was mention of the Pro getting up to > 300MHz, yet another search result says that the fastest is 200MHz. This suggests that 200 was the norm: http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/19971205/ From james at jdfogg.com Wed Nov 3 05:57:44 2004 From: james at jdfogg.com (james) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: Stuff Available Ft. Wayne IN In-Reply-To: <5ECE3D898910AC4497A172FAFA33D2CA0AC493@ACDFWMAIL1.acd.de.ittind.com> References: <5ECE3D898910AC4497A172FAFA33D2CA0AC493@ACDFWMAIL1.acd.de.ittind.com> Message-ID: <1099483064.2019.5.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> On Tue, 2004-11-02 at 08:34, Messick, Gary wrote: > Equipment just saw outside at a surplus dealer: > > 2 Xerox 820's of some type, Oh! My very first computer was an 820. Runs CPM. From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Nov 3 06:04:16 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: OT: Fastest Pentium Pro? In-Reply-To: <200411030133.50332.gsutton9503@wavecable.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Scarletdown wrote: > What was the fastest Pentium Pro CPU produced? On one site that a > Jeeves search turned up, there was mention of the Pro getting up to > 300MHz, yet another search result says that the fastest is 200MHz. > > Plus, the HP Vectra XA that I am tinkering with uses a Pentium Pro CPU > (she currently has a 200), and according to the geeksheet for this > motherboard (http://www.embeddedlogic.com/TH99/m/E-H/35391.htm) this > board can take up to a 266. > > So, which is it? The fastest one produced was 200MHz. They had 150, 180 and 200MHz versions, with cache sizes ranging from 256KB to 2MB. My primary file server at the office is a Compaq Proliant 6000 with four of the PPro/200 CPU's with 2MB cache each, and that thing just does not give up. Although all my other servers are MUCH faster CPU- wise, this box handles the Win2000 Advanced Server plus SFU plus BackupExec very well. Anyway, the answer would be '200'. They did project releases of 266 and 300MHz, but there ended up being early Pentium II's. --f From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Nov 3 10:20:34 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: OT: Fastest Pentium Pro? References: Message-ID: <001701c4c1c1$14f78070$702d1941@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 7:04 AM Subject: Re: OT: Fastest Pentium Pro? > On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Scarletdown wrote: > > > What was the fastest Pentium Pro CPU produced? On one site that a > > Jeeves search turned up, there was mention of the Pro getting up to > > 300MHz, yet another search result says that the fastest is 200MHz. > > > > Plus, the HP Vectra XA that I am tinkering with uses a Pentium Pro CPU > > (she currently has a 200), and according to the geeksheet for this > > motherboard (http://www.embeddedlogic.com/TH99/m/E-H/35391.htm) this > > board can take up to a 266. > > > > So, which is it? > The fastest one produced was 200MHz. They had 150, 180 and 200MHz > versions, with cache sizes ranging from 256KB to 2MB. My primary > file server at the office is a Compaq Proliant 6000 with four of > the PPro/200 CPU's with 2MB cache each, and that thing just does > not give up. Although all my other servers are MUCH faster CPU- > wise, this box handles the Win2000 Advanced Server plus SFU plus > BackupExec very well. > > Anyway, the answer would be '200'. They did project releases of > 266 and 300MHz, but there ended up being early Pentium II's. > > --f > PPro overdrives hit 333Mhz (I have 2 on a Intel PPro motherboard PR440FX). The overdrive is a P2 chip with 512KB cache w/ECC running at the processor speed, unlike a normal P2 with cache that runs at 1/2 CPU speed. They are fairly inexpensive and can found here: http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=PODP66X333&cat=CPU From vcf at siconic.com Wed Nov 3 10:59:17 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: OT: Fastest Pentium Pro? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > The fastest one produced was 200MHz. They had 150, 180 and 200MHz > versions, with cache sizes ranging from 256KB to 2MB. My primary > file server at the office is a Compaq Proliant 6000 with four of > the PPro/200 CPU's with 2MB cache each, and that thing just does > not give up. Although all my other servers are MUCH faster CPU- > wise, this box handles the Win2000 Advanced Server plus SFU plus > BackupExec very well. My lowly single PPro 200Mhz server has been faithfully and dutifully handling my email and dishing out web pages for at least 5 years now. It's survived several slashdottings and has been one of the more reliable systems I've ever owned. I'm getting ready to switch over to a new server (dual PII Xeon 450) which should make things run a lot faster but I'm planning to keep this one around in some role. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Nov 3 10:01:31 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: OT: Fastest Pentium Pro? In-Reply-To: <200411030133.50332.gsutton9503@wavecable.com> References: <200411030133.50332.gsutton9503@wavecable.com> Message-ID: >What was the fastest Pentium Pro CPU produced? On one site that a >Jeeves search turned up, there was mention of the Pro getting up to >300MHz, yet another search result says that the fastest is 200MHz. > >Plus, the HP Vectra XA that I am tinkering with uses a Pentium Pro CPU >(she currently has a 200), and according to the geeksheet for this >motherboard (http://www.embeddedlogic.com/TH99/m/E-H/35391.htm) this >board can take up to a 266. > >So, which is it? Good luck finding anything higher than 200Mhz, there are supposed to be 233Mhz and 266Mhz CPU's but I've been unable to find any, and they saw very limited release. I'm not sure but I think the Vectra XA might be the box that I have (nice system if it is), I bumped mine up from 150Mhz to 200Mhz, and would really like to find a 266Mhz for it. The only real chance for an upgrade is to get a PPro overdrive (Pentium II), though I think I'd rather find a PPro 200 with 2MB cache (this is the first I've heard of such a beast, or a 300Mhz PPro). Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Nov 3 11:20:07 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: OT: Fastest Pentium Pro? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041103111743.057eb870@pc> At 10:59 AM 11/3/2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >> My primary file server at the office is a Compaq Proliant 6000 with four of >> the PPro/200 CPU's with 2MB cache each, and that thing just does >> not give up. > >My lowly single PPro 200Mhz server has been faithfully and dutifully >handling my email and dishing out web pages for at least 5 years now. >It's survived several slashdottings and has been one of the more reliable >systems I've ever owned. My two servers for my mini-ISP business are similar quad PPro Proliant 7000 systems that have run without a hitch for years, and for years I ran dual PPro 200 P6DNF towers and loved them. There was something about those PPros that really honked. I have been tempted to replace the Proliants with something small and blade-ish that didn't suck so much electricity and space, though. I've paid far more for juice than I did for the systems. - John From RMeenaks at OLF.COM Wed Nov 3 12:47:20 2004 From: RMeenaks at OLF.COM (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: A new transputer toy.... Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B5584780700F632@exchange.olf.com> Just picked up an IMSB300-1 on ebay. This is cool as now I can connect my transputer processors on the network and access them from any machine on the net. Brings new life to an old friend. After opening it up, much to my amusement, it is really an off-the-shelf package. It contains nothing but: 1 IMSB018 - standalone transputer board 1 IMSB019 - differential link convertor board 1 IMSB404 - T425-based Size-2 TRAM 1 IMSB431 - Ethernet TRAM and it boots off of a firmware that is on the IMSB018. That's basically it. Anyone know how to connect this to a B004/B008? It didn't come with any cables etc. The links are differential, so I guess I can just connect this to a differential tram, right?? Cheers, Ram (c) 2004 OpenLink Financial Copyright in this message and any attachments remains with us. It is confidential and may be legally privileged. If this message is not intended for you it must not be read, copied or used by you or disclosed to anyone else. Please advise the sender immediately if you have received this message in error. Although this message and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss or damage in any way arising from its use. From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Nov 3 13:50:00 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: OT: Fastest Pentium Pro? In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041103111743.057eb870@pc> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, John Foust wrote: > I have been tempted to replace the Proliants with something > small and blade-ish that didn't suck so much electricity > and space, though. I've paid far more for juice than I > did for the systems. Yes, suck power, they do. Very true. Generate heat, too.. the PL.6000 and the five PL.1600's are the reason why that machine room upstairs has a *hefty* airco installed.. which, for The Netherlands, is quite unusual to have :) --f From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Nov 3 14:16:58 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: 1mbit dram chips? Message-ID: Hi all, See... now I remember why I should not dive into yet another restoration project (such as my AT). It only causes me to need even MORE stuff :) My system came with one of the last NEAT-based mainboard, which did support both the 1Mbit DRAM chips, as well as those funky "SIPP" modules. It had 2 banks of those chips installed, and, at the time, I also had two banks of SIPPs in it, for a total of 4MB. For some reason, the SIPPs have been pulled, so I am now looking for a bunch of either SIPP modules, and/or about 18 of the 1Mbit chips to "fill the board." A 80286-12 copro would be fun, too. If anyone has something laying around they'd part with, pse contact me off-list ! Thankee, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 3 15:03:38 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: New finds: Some days you win, other days you WIN! Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041103160338.008a1ca0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I got a call yesterday from one of my steady sources. He finally got in the load of Intel Multibus manuals that I'd been waiting for. Went down there this morning and spend about 4 hours digging thru a pallet load of manuals. Found about 50 Multibus manuals. But only three different manuals. Yeah. About 15 copies of each one! While I was there, they were sorting out another load of OLD stuff that they'd just gotten. There was a lot of '40s, 50s and '60s electronics in it as well as a lot of typrewriters, checkwriters and mechanical adders. while I was there I went over and looked in the scrap basket where they were tossing out stuff and in the bottom I spotted something that said "Flexowriter". I really didn't want to have to pull out all the junk that had been thrown in on top of it but decided to find out more first. A quick call to Alex Knight (aren't cell phones great?) and he confirmed that I SHOULD dig it out. So into the basket I went. An hour later and I was the proud owner of not one but TWO Frieden Flexowriters! Anyone have a manual or more information about these? Also found some OLD modules that are marked Digital Logic Modules. They're made of black plastic and about 1 1/8 square and 1/4" thick and have ten pins on the bottom. The pins aren't round but are blade shaped like those used on Jones plugs. There's no name on them but they have a symbol of a capital R with the electrical symbol for a resistor superimposed on it. I think I remember seeing that symbol a long time ago but I can't remember who used it. Does anyone remember it. Joe From pat at computer-refuge.org Wed Nov 3 15:19:37 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: 1mbit dram chips? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200411031619.38057.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Wednesday 03 November 2004 15:16, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Hi all, > > See... now I remember why I should not dive into yet another > restoration project (such as my AT). It only causes me to > need even MORE stuff :) > > My system came with one of the last NEAT-based mainboard, which > did support both the 1Mbit DRAM chips, as well as those funky > "SIPP" modules. It had 2 banks of those chips installed, and, > at the time, I also had two banks of SIPPs in it, for a total > of 4MB. For some reason, the SIPPs have been pulled, so I am > now looking for a bunch of either SIPP modules, and/or about > 18 of the 1Mbit chips to "fill the board." A 80286-12 copro > would be fun, too. I'm not completely certain, but am pretty sure you could probably manufacture SIPPs out of 30-pin SIMMs by soldering a header to the connector edge, which shouln't be much too difficult. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From aek at spies.com Wed Nov 3 15:20:46 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: Edusystem 25 BASIC source Message-ID: <20041103212046.D3CA842D2@spies.com> I remembered that Jeff Russ had the source for this up at indiana.edu so I dug around and put the mirror that I had made of his site several years ago. The EDU25 BASIC src can be found at: http://www.bitsavers.org/bits/DEC/pdp8/papertapeImages/russ.ucs.indiana.edu/Langs/Edu25Basic/Ascii/ From aek at spies.com Wed Nov 3 15:24:33 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: New finds: Some days you win, other days you WIN! Message-ID: <20041103212433.12B9442D7@spies.com> > Anyone have a manual or more information about these? Tom should for his LGP. I have some information as well that I'll get scanned and on line. Any IBM Executive model 'C' typewriters are worth digging out. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Nov 3 15:30:36 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: 1mbit dram chips? In-Reply-To: "Fred N. van Kempen" "1mbit dram chips?" (Nov 3, 21:16) References: Message-ID: <10411032130.ZM25054@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 3 2004, 21:16, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > My system came with one of the last NEAT-based mainboard, which > did support both the 1Mbit DRAM chips, as well as those funky > "SIPP" modules. It had 2 banks of those chips installed, and, > at the time, I also had two banks of SIPPs in it, for a total > of 4MB. For some reason, the SIPPs have been pulled, so I am > now looking for a bunch of either SIPP modules, and/or about > 18 of the 1Mbit chips to "fill the board." A 80286-12 copro > would be fun, too. I used to have one like that, and I may even still have some SIPPs -- but they would be 256K SIPPs, which you probably don't want. However, you do realise that SIPPs and SIMMs of the same size (capacity) have exactly the same pinout? You could either tack pins onto SIMMs (I've seen it done) or fit a SIMM socket to the board, if the spacing between the SIPPs is standard. I may also have some 1MB DRAM. What pinout and config does your board need? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From tomj at wps.com Wed Nov 3 15:32:24 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: New finds: Some days you win, other days you WIN! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041103160338.008a1ca0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041103160338.008a1ca0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > Subject: New finds: Some days you win, other days you WIN! Flexos good! I have some maint manual for one, but there were lots of customized versions out there, but likely they're mainly the same. Basically, oil all the moving parts! They were a common console device for a lot of early (50's) computers, since they are 5 or 6 bit parallel. Contact closures (keyboard/reader), solenoids (print/punch) 48V or so. Heavy though. From tomj at wps.com Wed Nov 3 15:33:39 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: New finds: Some days you win, other days you WIN! In-Reply-To: <20041103212433.12B9442D7@spies.com> References: <20041103212433.12B9442D7@spies.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Al Kossow wrote: > > Anyone have a manual or more information about these? > > Tom should for his LGP. I have some information as well that I'll get scanned and > on line. I forgot about that! http://wps.com/LGP-21 in documentation somewhere. THe other manual I have isn't online, but I'll see if it's worth scanning in the short term. From kapteynr at cboe.com Wed Nov 3 15:57:29 2004 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Kapteyn, Rob) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: New finds: Some days you win, other days you WIN! Message-ID: I have a Friden Flexowriter somewhere that I adapted for use with my Altair when I was a teenager. Herbach&Rademan Surplus out of Philadelphia used to sell them. They come with a huge box full of DTL electronics that provide some sort of telecomm interface. We found instructions in one of the Hobbyist magazines (Byte?) on how to connect that box to the Altair serial port. Later we found other instructions on how to eliminate the need for the box. (It is huge -- I'd guess 12" x 24" x 36") -Rob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe R. Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 3:04 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: New finds: Some days you win, other days you WIN! I got a call yesterday from one of my steady sources. He finally got in the load of Intel Multibus manuals that I'd been waiting for. Went down there this morning and spend about 4 hours digging thru a pallet load of manuals. Found about 50 Multibus manuals. But only three different manuals. Yeah. About 15 copies of each one! While I was there, they were sorting out another load of OLD stuff that they'd just gotten. There was a lot of '40s, 50s and '60s electronics in it as well as a lot of typrewriters, checkwriters and mechanical adders. while I was there I went over and looked in the scrap basket where they were tossing out stuff and in the bottom I spotted something that said "Flexowriter". I really didn't want to have to pull out all the junk that had been thrown in on top of it but decided to find out more first. A quick call to Alex Knight (aren't cell phones great?) and he confirmed that I SHOULD dig it out. So into the basket I went. An hour later and I was the proud owner of not one but TWO Frieden Flexowriters! Anyone have a manual or more information about these? Also found some OLD modules that are marked Digital Logic Modules. They're made of black plastic and about 1 1/8 square and 1/4" thick and have ten pins on the bottom. The pins aren't round but are blade shaped like those used on Jones plugs. There's no name on them but they have a symbol of a capital R with the electrical symbol for a resistor superimposed on it. I think I remember seeing that symbol a long time ago but I can't remember who used it. Does anyone remember it. Joe From cmcnabb at gmail.com Wed Nov 3 16:32:53 2004 From: cmcnabb at gmail.com (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: No more bids from the EU Message-ID: <145cecdd04110314326663231b@mail.gmail.com> Well, it looks like I won't be able to accept bids from the EU anymore: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/03/ebay_catalogue/ From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Nov 3 17:35:42 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: New finds: Some days you win, other days you WIN! References: Message-ID: <41896B4E.2050205@jetnet.ab.ca> Kapteyn, Rob wrote: > I have a Friden Flexowriter somewhere that I adapted for use with my Altair when I was a teenager. > Herbach&Rademan Surplus out of Philadelphia used to sell them. > They come with a huge box full of DTL electronics that provide some sort of telecomm interface. > We found instructions in one of the Hobbyist magazines (Byte?) on how to connect that box to the Altair serial port. > Later we found other instructions on how to eliminate the need for the box. > (It is huge -- I'd guess 12" x 24" x 36") ** Drool ** Check here for more info I think, or a place to sell parts to a good home: http://pdp-1.org/ From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Nov 3 16:37:14 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: No more bids from the EU In-Reply-To: <145cecdd04110314326663231b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Christopher McNabb wrote: > Well, it looks like I won't be able to accept bids from the EU anymore: > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/03/ebay_catalogue/ Correct, this has been a known law. It's a good law in general, but can be "wierd" when it comes to border-crossing situations such as ePay. I believe the Dutch Base Law amends this with ".. returned within 8 days after purchase", because there, any purchase can be un-done within 8 days. --f From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Nov 3 16:42:51 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: Surviving UK Transputer systems... Message-ID: <1099521771.21848.51.camel@weka.localdomain> Ram's message prompted me to post this, although it's been on my mind for a while. Does anyone know of any complete Transputer systems (i.e. several processors, cabinet, front-end control system etc.) from the '90's that still survive within the UK? I'd like to get one for the museum sometime as we don't have any transputer equipment at present, and it'd be nice to have one on display and running. My old uni used to have a 140 CPU one that was capable of doing some nice ray tracing, but I've been unable so far to find out if they still have it. I imagine it's long gone and either dismantled or scrapped. Seems like individual bits turn up all the time (although probably with a high price tag which doesn't exactly suit a museum!) but not any big systems. If anyone knows of any company that used to have anything that might stand a chance of still being complete and just shelved in storage anywhere, I could make some enquiries... cheersy-bye Jules -- The most secure computer in the world is one not connected to the internet. That's why I recommend NTL. From coredump at gifford.co.uk Wed Nov 3 17:10:18 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: Surviving UK Transputer systems... In-Reply-To: <1099521771.21848.51.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1099521771.21848.51.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <4189655A.7070208@gifford.co.uk> Jules Richardson wrote: > Does anyone know of any complete Transputer systems (i.e. several > processors, cabinet, front-end control system etc.) from the '90's that > still survive within the UK? I have a bunch of INMOS and transputer kit that I need to find a new home for. In fact, tomorrow I'm meeting the curator of the Bristol Industrial Museum, to see what he'd like. Would BP have room for some of this stuff? I've asked before, but always been told that they weren't accepting any more computers. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From tomj at wps.com Wed Nov 3 17:16:20 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: flexo interfacing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Kapteyn, Rob wrote: > I have a Friden Flexowriter somewhere that I adapted for use with my Altair when I was a teenager. Thanks for the reminder! David Forbes and his brother did the same thing as teenagers, and he scanned it all and it's been on my (non-web) computer for a year. I just moved it to http://wps.com/projects/LGP-21/David-Forbes-flexowriter/ It's linked into my LGP-21 page now. I'll do metas and such so it will google. From pcw at mesanet.com Wed Nov 3 17:23:11 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: New finds: Some days you win, other days you WIN! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Kapteyn, Rob wrote: > I have a Friden Flexowriter somewhere that I adapted for use with my Altair when I was a teenager. > Herbach&Rademan Surplus out of Philadelphia used to sell them. > They come with a huge box full of DTL electronics that provide some sort of telecomm interface. > We found instructions in one of the Hobbyist magazines (Byte?) on how to connect that box to the Altair serial port. > Later we found other instructions on how to eliminate the need for the box. > (It is huge -- I'd guess 12" x 24" x 36") > > -Rob I used to have a Flexowriter with a 110 baud RS-232 interface. I think it was model 7102. It had all the control electronics in the bustle where the relays would be on a normal Flexowriter (no external box needed). Seems to me the logic was DTL. I remember that unlike a teletype, it needed several null characters after a carriage return, and could not do a LF, only CRLF. I can still hear hex dumps from that (loud) machine: ratattat tattat tattat tattat tattat tattat tattat tattat tattat ratattat tattat tattat tattat tattat tattat tattat tattat tattat... Peter Wallace From tomj at wps.com Wed Nov 3 17:25:14 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: OT: exchange of DNS secondary service? Message-ID: I do realize this is largely off-topic (though it's on my net machine that supports vintage computing activities), but I cannot think of a better bunch of people to ask. Please reply off-list. I have a long-lived, well-placed and reliable machine on the net, turing.wps.com, and I'm looking to exchange secondary DNS service with someone outside the U.S. or on the East Coast. My server is in a secure, A/B powered telecomm colo in Seattle Washington, 600+ Mb/s to three ASNs. I have a lot of heavy DNS experience so when I foul up I do a really good job of it. I've got a half-dozen zones, all small, and would set up axfr's for you in exchange for me. This of course does not require me to have access to your machines, and vice-versa, we just set up bind config. Swap for like service, no money involved. From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed Nov 3 17:32:18 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: Big Iron available - Data General Eclipse - plus lots more smaller stuff In-Reply-To: <58699.127.0.0.1.1098992171.squirrel@127.0.0.1> References: <58699.127.0.0.1.1098992171.squirrel@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <43469.127.0.0.1.1099524738.squirrel@127.0.0.1> Just a quick follow-up. I went over to the recycler and took a few pics and examined a few of the items. I didn't get to turn anything on (lack of time) but I posted what I saw at: http://www.vintage-computer.com/scrapperstuff.shtml Let me know if you'd like more info of if you'd like me to put you in touch with the place. Erik > I went by my local recycler yesterday on the hunt for some items and came > away with a list of stuff that might interest folks here. > > The main item was a DG Eclipse system in two racks with tape drives and > more. I didn't spend much time looking at it but can probably get more > information if anyone wants it. I also have no idea what the price would > be but I can guess that shipping would be the big consideration anyway. > > The same place had a bunch of smaller items as well including a very clean > TRS-80 Mod 3 with a RS dustcover, a Kaypro II, a Franklin Ace 1000, a CoCo > that looked like it had seen better days, what looked like an IBM PC > Portable in its canvas bag, and a Compupro system with the main chassis > and a dual 8" chassis as well (this was wrapped in a pallet and those were > the items I could recognize. There's a few cubic yards of other stuff > mixed in that may or may not be related.) > > There were also a good number of vintage terminals stacked about. Several > ADM3as in both blue and beige in various states of decay. Most looked > serviceable with a couple having a bit of screen rot. The couple I turned > on worked. None had the switch covers. There was also a Hazeltine 1500 > in nice shape except for the fact that the video was bad and some > TeleVideo 925s and 950s that worked but needed TLC. Newer terminals (DEC > and Wyse, mostly) were all over the place. There was at least one VT100 > that was marked as dead but that looked like it had all of the (yellow) > parts. > > If anyone wants more info on any of this I'll be happy to get what I can > or to put you in touch with the shop. > > Erik Klein > www.vintage-computer.com > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > The Vintage Computer Forum > > -- Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Nov 3 17:26:42 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: No more bids from the EU In-Reply-To: "Fred N. van Kempen" "Re: No more bids from the EU" (Nov 3, 23:37) References: Message-ID: <10411032326.ZM25157@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 3 2004, 23:37, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Christopher McNabb wrote: > > > Well, it looks like I won't be able to accept bids from the EU anymore: > > > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/03/ebay_catalogue/ > Correct, this has been a known law. It's a good law in general, > but can be "wierd" when it comes to border-crossing situations > such as ePay. I'm not sure the regulations apply to most eBay transactions though. In the UK, at least, I understand they only apply to *business* to consumer transactions, not sales by private individuals. And I can't see how they can be enforced against a seller outside the EU. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From RMeenaks at OLF.COM Wed Nov 3 17:32:45 2004 From: RMeenaks at OLF.COM (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: Surviving UK Transputer systems... Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B5584780700F661@exchange.olf.com> John, Do you have any software, etc. Would love to archive this on my website and future reference...... Thanks, Ram -----Original Message----- From: John Honniball [mailto:coredump@gifford.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 6:10 PM To: julesrichardsonuk@yahoo.co.uk; On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Surviving UK Transputer systems... Jules Richardson wrote: > Does anyone know of any complete Transputer systems (i.e. several > processors, cabinet, front-end control system etc.) from the '90's > that still survive within the UK? I have a bunch of INMOS and transputer kit that I need to find a new home for. In fact, tomorrow I'm meeting the curator of the Bristol Industrial Museum, to see what he'd like. Would BP have room for some of this stuff? I've asked before, but always been told that they weren't accepting any more computers. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk (c) 2004 OpenLink Financial Copyright in this message and any attachments remains with us. It is confidential and may be legally privileged. If this message is not intended for you it must not be read, copied or used by you or disclosed to anyone else. Please advise the sender immediately if you have received this message in error. Although this message and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss or damage in any way arising from its use. From tomj at wps.com Wed Nov 3 17:38:52 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: Big Iron available - Data General Eclipse - plus lots more smaller stuff In-Reply-To: <43469.127.0.0.1.1099524738.squirrel@127.0.0.1> References: <58699.127.0.0.1.1098992171.squirrel@127.0.0.1> <43469.127.0.0.1.1099524738.squirrel@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Erik Klein wrote: COMPUPRO! I've been trying to recall that name for a year. Very nice S-100 chassis. Monster power supplies. Fine motherboards. A really great find for someone who wants to put together a generic S100 CP/M system. I wouldn't mind having it, but I have far too many irons in too many fires plus I'm lazy. But it's worth grabbing. I'm sure one of those dual 8" flop boxes goes with. A fine catch. From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Nov 3 18:05:30 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: EduSystem questions References: Message-ID: <066201c4c201$ffdc9ae0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> It was written.... > I don't recall seeing guides for individual systems (and it seems to me > there probably are some, a.k.a. teachers' guides and such), but they're > all documented reasonably well in DEC's _Edusystem Handbook_ (1973). Being as I'm so enamored with timesharing systems, especially basic oriented ones... I'd like to see about getting EduSystem up on my 8E. I skimmed through the Edusystem handbook and find some information unclear. 1) It appears that for all versions of EduSystem, the Timesharing Extension board isn't required. So what OS's DID use the timesharing extension board? More importantly can someone confirm that no edusystem versions require this board? 2) The edusystem handbook is a bit unclear with regards to disk drive support in edusystem-25. At the beginning of the section they say an RK05 can be used in place of dectape, but no mention is made of that anywhere else in that section. In addition, the mention of a disk drive at the beginning of the -20 section is crossed out along with a delete mark. So what's the deal? Can you save program files to hard disk on edusystem-25? And most importantly, in skimming through the capabilities in the handbook, Edusystem-50 looks MOST impressive. It does something my beloved HP/TSB does not, and that is allow other languages (focal, fortran, and assembler) to be used in addition to basic (apparently) DURING timesharing. So my obvious next question is, does anyone have a installable copy of Edusystem-50?? I may go the RSTS/E route on my 11/45, but will probably do RT-11/TSX+ instead. But on the 8E, Edusystem-50 looks quite nice. Any advice is most appreciated! Jay West From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed Nov 3 18:09:02 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: Big Iron available - Data General Eclipse - plus lots more smaller stuff In-Reply-To: References: <58699.127.0.0.1.1098992171.squirrel@127.0.0.1> <43469.127.0.0.1.1099524738.squirrel@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <47495.127.0.0.1.1099526942.squirrel@127.0.0.1> > > COMPUPRO! I've been trying to recall that name for a year. Very > nice S-100 chassis. Monster power supplies. Fine motherboards. A > really great find for someone who wants to put together a > generic S100 CP/M system. Agreed. This one looks very clean, too. > I wouldn't mind having it, but I have far too many irons in > too many fires plus I'm lazy. But it's worth grabbing. I'm sure > one of those dual 8" flop boxes goes with. A fine catch. Same here. I've already got two of these and I haven't gotten around to booting either one! :) If anyone does grab it, I'm 99% sure I have docs for everything, though. -- Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Wed Nov 3 18:11:22 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: Tandy (Sheffield - UK) In-Reply-To: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B5584780700F632@exchange.olf.com> Message-ID: <014701c4c202$d10d4f10$5b01a8c0@flexpc> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5134716529&ssP ageName=STRK:MEWA:IT Anyone anywhere near Sheffield (UK) who can save this? I'd do it but I'm way too far away! Twin 8" disks too ... Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Nov 3 18:11:54 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: Big Iron available - Data General Eclipse - plus lots more smaller stuff References: <58699.127.0.0.1.1098992171.squirrel@127.0.0.1> <43469.127.0.0.1.1099524738.squirrel@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <068201c4c202$e4b3faa0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Erik wrote.... > I went over to the recycler and took a few pics and examined a few of the > items. I didn't get to turn anything on (lack of time) but I posted what > I saw at: http://www.vintage-computer.com/scrapperstuff.shtml > > Let me know if you'd like more info of if you'd like me to put you in > touch with the place. I really don't want to take up the room (which I dont really have right now) but that dual bay Data General MV/4000 system is SCHWEEET! Where is it located again? Wait.... don't tell me. I'm gonna go hide the trailer key on myself. Jay West From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Nov 3 18:34:11 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: Tandy (Sheffield - UK) In-Reply-To: <014701c4c202$d10d4f10$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Antonio Carlini > Sent: 04 November 2004 00:11 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: Tandy (Sheffield - UK) > > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5134 > 716529&ssP > ageName=STRK:MEWA:IT > > Anyone anywhere near Sheffield (UK) who can save this? > I'd do it but I'm way too far away! I drive past doncaster twice a week, so if he's not too far from the A1 I can get it....not got a model 2 in the collection :) -- Adrian/Witchy Owner/Curator of Binary Dinosaurs, quite probably the UK's biggest private home computer collection www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online museum www.aaghverts.co.uk - *the* site for advert whinges! www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - former gothic shenanigans :( From aek at spies.com Wed Nov 3 18:34:01 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: EduSystem questions Message-ID: <20041104003401.2F37042F9@spies.com> > So what OS's DID use the timesharing extension board? Edusystem 50 (TSS/8) > does anyone have a installable copy of Edusystem-50?? There is a bootable image in the SIMH distribution The problem with all but the last versions of TSS/8 was it assumes you have a DF32 or RF08 for swapping. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 3 18:17:53 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: A new transputer toy.... In-Reply-To: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B5584780700F632@exchange.olf.com> from "Ram Meenakshisundaram" at Nov 3, 4 01:47:20 pm Message-ID: > cables etc. The links are differential, so I guess I can just connect this > to a differential tram, right?? I would guess so. The differential links are just the result of feeding normal links through 'RS422' bufferes (26LS31 transmitter, 26LS32 receiver). If you don't hve the official Inmos converter TRAM (which is not really a TRAM as it doesn't contain a transputer IIRC), you can easily wire up said chips. I've done it several times. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 3 18:19:38 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: 1mbit dram chips? In-Reply-To: <200411031619.38057.pat@computer-refuge.org> from "Patrick Finnegan" at Nov 3, 4 04:19:37 pm Message-ID: > I'm not completely certain, but am pretty sure you could probably > manufacture SIPPs out of 30-pin SIMMs by soldering a header to the > connector edge, which shouln't be much too difficult. You can, the pinout is identical AFAIK. Depending on the layout of the mainboard you might also be able to replace the SIPP socket with a SIMM socket or fit a SIMM socket into the SIPP socket. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 3 18:23:54 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: Surviving UK Transputer systems... In-Reply-To: <1099521771.21848.51.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Nov 3, 4 10:42:51 pm Message-ID: > > > Ram's message prompted me to post this, although it's been on my mind > for a while. > > Does anyone know of any complete Transputer systems (i.e. several > processors, cabinet, front-end control system etc.) from the '90's that > still survive within the UK? I have here : The boards I did for my Ph.D. (which are very non-standard, but which have a couple of T425s on them) A complete Inmos ITEM (3U rack version) Quite a few ISA cards, both the B004 type (one transputer + RAM + external link access) and the B008 (TRAM motherboard) type A 9U SUN Eurocard with lots of TRAM sockets (and some TRAMs in them) A small assrotmet of TRAMs. > I'd like to get one for the museum sometime as we don't have any Alas you know my views on giveing stuff to that museum :-( -tony From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Nov 3 18:40:52 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: EduSystem questions References: <20041104003401.2F37042F9@spies.com> Message-ID: <001001c4c206$f03e3ee0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Al wrote... > Edusystem 50 (TSS/8) I didn't get the impression Edusystem-50 was the same thing as TSS/8. Interesting. > There is a bootable image in the SIMH distribution > The problem with all but the last versions of TSS/8 was > it assumes you have a DF32 or RF08 for swapping. I'm guessing the bootable image in the SIMH dist is NOT one of those later versions and thus assumes a DF32 or RF08. I wanna use my RK05! :\ Guess if the source for -50 was around, it might be hackable into using RK05 instead of DF32. Jay From tomj at wps.com Wed Nov 3 18:47:05 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:28 2005 Subject: deadmedia.org Message-ID: All this talk of DNS makes me hungry. The Dead Media site (http://www.deadmedia.org) is in need of a new owner. I nominally ran it for a few years, cleaned it up somewhat, then I passed it on to a new volunteer last year who ultimately flaked on me. There is sits with no change for probably two years. If anyone is interested in reviving it, preferably on another host, let me know. It's mainly a bunch of text. I have low-quality perl scripts that actually generate the HTML, the content is in a trivially simple flat "database" easily converted to anything else. There's a lot of room for work in categorization and such. There is also a mailing list, somewhat cobwebby, that was on old smartlist software, archives are around somewhere, plus the last-used list of participants if you want to poke them all in their virtual ribs. From esharpe at uswest.net Wed Nov 3 18:47:24 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: OT: Fastest Pentium Pro? References: Message-ID: <002601c4c207$d997a450$739f6d44@SONYDIGITALED> I have seen pictures of the giant rack proliant!~ We want one of those but have one of the towers with 2 processors in it... also have the 11x17 dulpexing monster laser printer to display next to it..... looks impressive.... but... want a rack unit too with the rack fully stuffed like in the picture I saw! Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 9:59 AM Subject: Re: OT: Fastest Pentium Pro? > On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > >> The fastest one produced was 200MHz. They had 150, 180 and 200MHz >> versions, with cache sizes ranging from 256KB to 2MB. My primary >> file server at the office is a Compaq Proliant 6000 with four of >> the PPro/200 CPU's with 2MB cache each, and that thing just does >> not give up. Although all my other servers are MUCH faster CPU- >> wise, this box handles the Win2000 Advanced Server plus SFU plus >> BackupExec very well. > > My lowly single PPro 200Mhz server has been faithfully and dutifully > handling my email and dishing out web pages for at least 5 years now. > It's survived several slashdottings and has been one of the more reliable > systems I've ever owned. I'm getting ready to switch over to a new server > (dual PII Xeon 450) which should make things run a lot faster but I'm > planning to keep this one around in some role. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Nov 3 18:53:46 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Big Iron available - Data General Eclipse - plus lots more smaller stuff In-Reply-To: <43469.127.0.0.1.1099524738.squirrel@127.0.0.1> References: <58699.127.0.0.1.1098992171.squirrel@127.0.0.1> <58699.127.0.0.1.1098992171.squirrel@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041103194710.04b72410@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Erik Klein may have mentioned these words: >Just a quick follow-up. > >I went over to the recycler and took a few pics and examined a few of the >items. I didn't get to turn anything on (lack of time) but I posted what >I saw at: http://www.vintage-computer.com/scrapperstuff.shtml > >Let me know if you'd like more info of if you'd like me to put you in >touch with the place. Do you remember what kinda machine the very last pic is? That's something I *might* be interested in... [[ I've been looking for a 'boxed' 6809 system for a long time, say a Chieftain, Gimix or SWTPC... ]] Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | A new truth in advertising slogan SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers | for MicroSoft: "We're not the oxy... zmerch@30below.com | ...in oxymoron!" From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 3 18:40:44 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: New finds: Some days you win, other days you WIN! In-Reply-To: <20041103212433.12B9442D7@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041103194044.00797310@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:24 PM 11/3/04 -0800, you wrote: > >> Anyone have a manual or more information about these? > >Tom should for his LGP. I have some information as well that I'll get scanned and >on line. > >Any IBM Executive model 'C' typewriters are worth digging out. There was an OLD IBM typewriter but I'm not sure if it was a C or not but it looked close. However it's already gone to the great boneyard in the sky. They loaded it and a lot of other stuff on a truck and hauled them away. I saw the discussions about the model C a week or so ago but didn't pay much attention to them and I wasn't aware that you wanted one. Sorry. Joe > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 3 18:44:39 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: New finds: Some days you win, other days you WIN! In-Reply-To: References: <20041103212433.12B9442D7@spies.com> <20041103212433.12B9442D7@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041103194439.0089b2b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:33 PM 11/3/04 -0800, you wrote: >On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Al Kossow wrote: > >> > Anyone have a manual or more information about these? >> >> Tom should for his LGP. I have some information as well that I'll get scanned and >> on line. > >I forgot about that! http://wps.com/LGP-21 in documentation somewhere. I found some usefull info there. Thanks. Any suggestions about where to start when cleaning up a GRUNGY Flexowriter? Joe > >THe other manual I have isn't online, but I'll see if it's >worth scanning in the short term. > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 3 18:50:33 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: No more bids from the EU In-Reply-To: <145cecdd04110314326663231b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041103195033.00797450@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Interesting. Looks like I will have to stop selling to Germany at least. Too bad I've sold a lot of stuff to the Germans and I've never had a problem (except LONG delays in customs). This was a German court ruling. Does it apply to the other EU countries? Joe At 05:32 PM 11/3/04 -0500, you wrote: >Well, it looks like I won't be able to accept bids from the EU anymore: > >http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/03/ebay_catalogue/ > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 3 18:52:59 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Surviving UK Transputer systems... In-Reply-To: <1099521771.21848.51.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041103195259.0079a4b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:42 PM 11/3/04 +0000, you wrote: > >Ram's message prompted me to post this, although it's been on my mind >for a while. > >Does anyone know of any complete Transputer systems (i.e. several >processors, cabinet, front-end control system etc.) from the '90's that >still survive within the UK? I don't know anything about Transputers but can you tell me the name of some systems that used them? I find a LOT of odd-ball computer equipment and I have no idea which ones may use a Transputer. Joe > >I'd like to get one for the museum sometime as we don't have any >transputer equipment at present, and it'd be nice to have one on display >and running. My old uni used to have a 140 CPU one that was capable of >doing some nice ray tracing, but I've been unable so far to find out if >they still have it. I imagine it's long gone and either dismantled or >scrapped. > >Seems like individual bits turn up all the time (although probably with >a high price tag which doesn't exactly suit a museum!) but not any big >systems. > >If anyone knows of any company that used to have anything that might >stand a chance of still being complete and just shelved in storage >anywhere, I could make some enquiries... > >cheersy-bye > >Jules > >-- >The most secure computer in the world is one not connected to the >internet. That's why I recommend NTL. > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 3 18:54:38 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: New finds: Some days you win, other days you WIN! In-Reply-To: <41896B4E.2050205@jetnet.ab.ca> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041103195438.00a08af0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:35 PM 11/3/04 -0700, you wrote: >Kapteyn, Rob wrote: >> I have a Friden Flexowriter somewhere that I adapted for use with my Altair when I was a teenager. >> Herbach&Rademan Surplus out of Philadelphia used to sell them. >> They come with a huge box full of DTL electronics that provide some sort of telecomm interface. >> We found instructions in one of the Hobbyist magazines (Byte?) on how to connect that box to the Altair serial port. >> Later we found other instructions on how to eliminate the need for the box. >> (It is huge -- I'd guess 12" x 24" x 36") > > >** Drool ** > >Check here for more info I think, or >a place to sell parts to a good home: > http://pdp-1.org/ > Very cool! It's too bad that I'm on the opposite end of the country. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 3 19:04:28 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Big Iron available - Data General Eclipse - plus lots more smaller stuff In-Reply-To: <43469.127.0.0.1.1099524738.squirrel@127.0.0.1> References: <58699.127.0.0.1.1098992171.squirrel@127.0.0.1> <58699.127.0.0.1.1098992171.squirrel@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041103200428.008fe9e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> There's some nice stuff there! Somebody should rescue that HP 9895 disk drive. Those use HP-IB interface and can be used with most HP computers including any of the HP 9000/200s (9826, 9816, etc) or the HP-85 and the like. Joe At 03:32 PM 11/3/04 -0800, you wrote: >Just a quick follow-up. > >I went over to the recycler and took a few pics and examined a few of the >items. I didn't get to turn anything on (lack of time) but I posted what >I saw at: http://www.vintage-computer.com/scrapperstuff.shtml > >Let me know if you'd like more info of if you'd like me to put you in >touch with the place. > > Erik > > >> I went by my local recycler yesterday on the hunt for some items and came >> away with a list of stuff that might interest folks here. >> >> The main item was a DG Eclipse system in two racks with tape drives and >> more. I didn't spend much time looking at it but can probably get more >> information if anyone wants it. I also have no idea what the price would >> be but I can guess that shipping would be the big consideration anyway. >> >> The same place had a bunch of smaller items as well including a very clean >> TRS-80 Mod 3 with a RS dustcover, a Kaypro II, a Franklin Ace 1000, a CoCo >> that looked like it had seen better days, what looked like an IBM PC >> Portable in its canvas bag, and a Compupro system with the main chassis >> and a dual 8" chassis as well (this was wrapped in a pallet and those were >> the items I could recognize. There's a few cubic yards of other stuff >> mixed in that may or may not be related.) >> >> There were also a good number of vintage terminals stacked about. Several >> ADM3as in both blue and beige in various states of decay. Most looked >> serviceable with a couple having a bit of screen rot. The couple I turned >> on worked. None had the switch covers. There was also a Hazeltine 1500 >> in nice shape except for the fact that the video was bad and some >> TeleVideo 925s and 950s that worked but needed TLC. Newer terminals (DEC >> and Wyse, mostly) were all over the place. There was at least one VT100 >> that was marked as dead but that looked like it had all of the (yellow) >> parts. >> >> If anyone wants more info on any of this I'll be happy to get what I can >> or to put you in touch with the shop. >> >> Erik Klein >> www.vintage-computer.com >> www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum >> The Vintage Computer Forum >> >> > > >-- >Erik Klein >www.vintage-computer.com >www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum >The Vintage Computer Forum > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 3 19:15:05 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Big Iron available - Data General Eclipse - plus lots more smaller stuff In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041103194710.04b72410@mail.30below.com> References: <43469.127.0.0.1.1099524738.squirrel@127.0.0.1> <58699.127.0.0.1.1098992171.squirrel@127.0.0.1> <58699.127.0.0.1.1098992171.squirrel@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041103201505.0095f210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:53 PM 11/3/04 -0500, you wrote: >Rumor has it that Erik Klein may have mentioned these words: >>Just a quick follow-up. >> >>I went over to the recycler and took a few pics and examined a few of the >>items. I didn't get to turn anything on (lack of time) but I posted what >>I saw at: http://www.vintage-computer.com/scrapperstuff.shtml >> >>Let me know if you'd like more info of if you'd like me to put you in >>touch with the place. > >Do you remember what kinda machine the very last pic is? That's something I >*might* be interested in... > It's a Compupro. It's also shown in the next to the last picture. It's S-100 and probably has a 8085 or Z-80 or something like that. But the Compupros are GOOD solid machines. It's probably one of the best S-100 machines ever built. >[[ I've been looking for a 'boxed' 6809 system for a long time, say a >Chieftain, Gimix or SWTPC... ]] Nope, wrong animal. Joe > >Thanks, >Roger "Merch" Merchberger > >-- >Roger "Merch" Merchberger | A new truth in advertising slogan >SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers | for MicroSoft: "We're not the oxy... >zmerch@30below.com | ...in oxymoron!" > > From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Nov 3 19:21:30 2004 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: NEC PC-8201A In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20041030153418.02e95ec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20041030153418.02e95ec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Mike Ford wrote: > At 01:33 PM 10/25/04 -0700, Tom Ponsford wrote: > > >Digging through what I thought was just another giant box 0' cables > >from the UA auction, I got to the bottom and there were 2 NEC PC-8201A > >and 2 NEC PC-8300 all in working order. > > Dunno if that is good or bad. ;) > > Several times at auctions I have found boxes that are junk on the top > layer, and treasure on the bottom. Bidding on those lots can look pretty > crasy to people who haven't looked. Agreed...These sort of "trash" or "junk" lots were the bread and butter of my computing hobby for a number of years. Unfortunately, my main source of these lots has dried up for now (but that may change drastically when I have time to stir some people up). I actually found that it was best not to let most folks even see the good stuff on the bottom, else they would bid against me next time. Friends who frequented the same auctions also started looking out for these kinds of piles for me. I did get some very weird looks and inquiries from people who weren't the wiser :) -Toth From tponsford at theriver.com Wed Nov 3 19:41:28 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: NEC PC-8201A In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20041030153418.02e95ec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <418988C8.5000908@theriver.com> I always call them "goody boxes". Our biweekly auction usually has over several hundred lots. About half the lots are piles o' stuff on pallets. This weeks goody pallets I picked up were: A pallet of sparc stuff that included several sparc 5 @170mhz, some sparc 10's,20's and a perfectly good Ultra-5 that was at the bottom. Sitting on top of all the sparcs were several of the huge old Sun monitors, which no one wanted to move (except me) to actually see what was under the monitors. The lot cost me $2.50. Another pallet of goodies included all dec stuff; A microvax 3100-80, Vax 4000vlc, 2 vaxstation 3100's several decstation 3000/300's and a perfectly good alphastation 200 4/233 and a boxload of cables which at the bottom had lots of dec documentation and a copy of vms. This lot ended up costing me nothing as I sold some of the other stuff on the pallet to the guy who bid against me. I usually go the day before the auction on "preview" day and dig through the lots that are in boxes or pallets and boxes. And shame on me if I "accidentally" cover up (bury) the good stuff on these pallets under lots of junk. That's why I go early so I don't have to uncover stuff that others have buried :-). Still there are lots and boxes I haven't thouroghly inspected as they contained stuff on the pallet I was bidding on/buying anyway. Those are the real surprizes. Cheers Tom Tothwolf wrote: > On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Mike Ford wrote: > >>At 01:33 PM 10/25/04 -0700, Tom Ponsford wrote: >> >> >>>Digging through what I thought was just another giant box 0' cables >> >>>from the UA auction, I got to the bottom and there were 2 NEC PC-8201A >> >>>and 2 NEC PC-8300 all in working order. >> >>Dunno if that is good or bad. ;) >> >>Several times at auctions I have found boxes that are junk on the top >>layer, and treasure on the bottom. Bidding on those lots can look pretty >>crasy to people who haven't looked. > > > Agreed...These sort of "trash" or "junk" lots were the bread and butter of > my computing hobby for a number of years. Unfortunately, my main source of > these lots has dried up for now (but that may change drastically when I > have time to stir some people up). I actually found that it was best not > to let most folks even see the good stuff on the bottom, else they would > bid against me next time. Friends who frequented the same auctions also > started looking out for these kinds of piles for me. I did get some very > weird looks and inquiries from people who weren't the wiser :) > > -Toth > -- --- Please do not read this sig. If you have read this far, please unread back to the beginning. From medavidson at mac.com Wed Nov 3 19:57:02 2004 From: medavidson at mac.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Big Iron available - Data General Eclipse - plus lots more smaller stuff In-Reply-To: <068201c4c202$e4b3faa0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <58699.127.0.0.1.1098992171.squirrel@127.0.0.1> <43469.127.0.0.1.1099524738.squirrel@127.0.0.1> <068201c4c202$e4b3faa0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Nov 3, 2004, at 4:11 PM, Jay West wrote: > Erik wrote.... >> I went over to the recycler and took a few pics and examined a few of >> the >> items. I didn't get to turn anything on (lack of time) but I posted >> what >> I saw at: http://www.vintage-computer.com/scrapperstuff.shtml >> >> Let me know if you'd like more info of if you'd like me to put you in >> touch with the place. > > I really don't want to take up the room (which I dont really have > right now) but that dual bay Data General MV/4000 system is SCHWEEET! > > Where is it located again? Wait.... don't tell me. I'm gonna go hide > the trailer key on myself. > > Jay West > It's in San Jose, CA... I went over to the location and checked it out... it looks to be in great shape (although it's been wiped, apparently). My only concern is that the cabinet doesn't have wheels, so moving it is going to be a challenge. I'm trying to come up with a decent offer for it because I'd love to have it! Mark Davidson From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed Nov 3 20:01:18 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Big Iron available - Data General Eclipse - plus lots more smaller stuff In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041103194710.04b72410@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <000601c4c212$2c948fb0$6e7ba8c0@p933> > Do you remember what kinda machine the very last pic is? That's something > I *might* be interested in... > [[ I've been looking for a 'boxed' 6809 system for a long time, say a > Chieftain, Gimix or SWTPC... ]] That's a CompuPro S-100 chassis with the set of cards mentioned on the web page. Basically it's the 8/16 without the badge running an 8085 and an 8088. Several folks have expressed an interest in that. It's probably the gem of the lot, unless you're into the terminals (the ADMs are cool too!) Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From tomj at wps.com Wed Nov 3 20:02:27 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Big Iron available - Data General Eclipse - plus lots more smaller stuff In-Reply-To: References: <58699.127.0.0.1.1098992171.squirrel@127.0.0.1> <43469.127.0.0.1.1099524738.squirrel@127.0.0.1> <068201c4c202$e4b3faa0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Mark Davidson wrote: > It's in San Jose, CA... I went over to the location and checked it out... it > looks to be in great shape (although it's been wiped, apparently). My only > concern is that the cabinet doesn't have wheels, so moving it is going to be a > challenge. I'm trying to come up with a decent offer for it because I'd love > to have it! GAK!?@#$@ That's stuff's in San Josey?! Please tell the proprietor that the goddamned Vintage Comp. Faire loonies will descend on him in a few days and give him $1 on each dime's worth of landfill! All he has to do is set it to one side for mere days... From RMeenaks at OLF.COM Wed Nov 3 20:25:30 2004 From: RMeenaks at OLF.COM (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: A new transputer toy.... Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B5584780700F66A@exchange.olf.com> That's what I thought. But wanted to make sure. The AUI port of the IMSB300 is actually an IMSB431 which used a 5V transiever, so I am assuming the transiver on the IMS300 needs to be 5V as well. Got to look for one as most transievers are 12V.... Thanks, Ram -----Original Message----- From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 7:18 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: A new transputer toy.... > cables etc. The links are differential, so I guess I can just connect > this to a differential tram, right?? I would guess so. The differential links are just the result of feeding normal links through 'RS422' bufferes (26LS31 transmitter, 26LS32 receiver). If you don't hve the official Inmos converter TRAM (which is not really a TRAM as it doesn't contain a transputer IIRC), you can easily wire up said chips. I've done it several times. -tony (c) 2004 OpenLink Financial Copyright in this message and any attachments remains with us. It is confidential and may be legally privileged. If this message is not intended for you it must not be read, copied or used by you or disclosed to anyone else. Please advise the sender immediately if you have received this message in error. Although this message and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss or damage in any way arising from its use. From RMeenaks at OLF.COM Wed Nov 3 20:26:36 2004 From: RMeenaks at OLF.COM (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Surviving UK Transputer systems... Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B5584780700F66B@exchange.olf.com> 9U. Do you got a picture of this? Never seen a 9U Eurocard transputer board. Who made it? Whats wrong with that Museum??? Cheers, Ram -----Original Message----- From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 7:24 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Surviving UK Transputer systems... > > > Ram's message prompted me to post this, although it's been on my mind > for a while. > > Does anyone know of any complete Transputer systems (i.e. several > processors, cabinet, front-end control system etc.) from the '90's > that still survive within the UK? I have here : The boards I did for my Ph.D. (which are very non-standard, but which have a couple of T425s on them) A complete Inmos ITEM (3U rack version) Quite a few ISA cards, both the B004 type (one transputer + RAM + external link access) and the B008 (TRAM motherboard) type A 9U SUN Eurocard with lots of TRAM sockets (and some TRAMs in them) A small assrotmet of TRAMs. > I'd like to get one for the museum sometime as we don't have any Alas you know my views on giveing stuff to that museum :-( -tony (c) 2004 OpenLink Financial Copyright in this message and any attachments remains with us. It is confidential and may be legally privileged. If this message is not intended for you it must not be read, copied or used by you or disclosed to anyone else. Please advise the sender immediately if you have received this message in error. Although this message and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss or damage in any way arising from its use. From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Wed Nov 3 21:53:53 2004 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: No more bids from the EU In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041103195033.00797450@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <24CC308C-2E15-11D9-9DE6-000A9586BBB0@bluewin.ch> Am donderdag, 04.11.04, um 01:50 Uhr (Europe/Zurich) schrieb Joe R.: > Interesting. Looks like I will have to stop selling to Germany at > least. > Too bad I've sold a lot of stuff to the Germans and I've never had a > problem (except LONG delays in customs). This was a German court > ruling. > Does it apply to the other EU countries? > > Joe > AFAIK it does apply to all EU countries, but only affects business sellers. Private sales, from one individual to another, are not covered by this law. This ruling basically states that ebay sales from a company to an individual are equal to mailorder sales. We have more than enough USA only offerings as it is....Sadly also ebay.de is having more and more "DE only" offerings. Jos Dreesen From paulpenn at knology.net Wed Nov 3 22:14:00 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul A. Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: SWTPC 6809 References: <58699.127.0.0.1.1098992171.squirrel@127.0.0.1><58699.127.0.0.1.1098992171.squirrel@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20041103194710.04b72410@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <007201c4c224$b6a95b60$6401a8c0@ibm6go1addn6c0> Roger said: > [[ I've been looking for a 'boxed' 6809 system for a long time, say a > Chieftain, Gimix or SWTPC... ]] There's a SWTPC 6809 system on eBay right now: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=5135265112&rd=1 Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia From pat at computer-refuge.org Wed Nov 3 22:44:34 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Big Iron available - Data General Eclipse - plus lots more smaller stuff In-Reply-To: <068201c4c202$e4b3faa0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <58699.127.0.0.1.1098992171.squirrel@127.0.0.1> <43469.127.0.0.1.1099524738.squirrel@127.0.0.1> <068201c4c202$e4b3faa0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <200411032344.34151.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Wednesday 03 November 2004 19:11, Jay West wrote: > Erik wrote.... > > > I went over to the recycler and took a few pics and examined a few > > of the items. I didn't get to turn anything on (lack of time) but > > I posted what I saw at: > > http://www.vintage-computer.com/scrapperstuff.shtml > > > > Let me know if you'd like more info of if you'd like me to put you > > in touch with the place. > > I really don't want to take up the room (which I dont really have > right now) but that dual bay Data General MV/4000 system is SCHWEEET! That looks quite a bit like the DG Eclipse MV/4000 I picked up from WI a few months ago, except mine has two drives (the system one seems to be needing repairs) and only the one tape drive on the left half of the frame. I need to spend a few minutes to take pictures of the stuff I got still.. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 3 23:07:08 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Surviving UK Transputer systems... In-Reply-To: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B5584780700F66B@exchange.olf.com> from "Ram Meenakshisundaram" at Nov 3, 4 09:26:36 pm Message-ID: > > 9U. Do you got a picture of this? Never seen a 9U Eurocard transputer No picture yet. I can take one sometime, but it will be on film (and I have no scanner), as I will only buy a digitial camera when the quality exceeds that of my existing medium and large format film cameras... It looks like a normal Sun 3 board (with the metal pannel, carrying some DC37 connectors, presumanly for external trasnputer links). > board. Who made it? Whats wrong with that Museum??? It claims to be have been made by Niche Technologies Ltd. Never heard of them. As regards what's wrong with the museum, I'd rather my machines were used by people who actually appreciate them. That's quita apart from the fact that I've had experience of said museum and some of their policies (at least 10 years ago) left a lot to be desired. -tony From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Wed Nov 3 23:39:43 2004 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Xerox GUI on a PC??? In-Reply-To: <110220040258.2261.4186F7C100043987000008D52160466648040A0B020A900C@att.net> References: <110220040258.2261.4186F7C100043987000008D52160466648040A0B020A900C@att.net> Message-ID: <1099546783.9481.207922353@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hmmm... I don't think I can help you in that respect Curt. However, I know that there was an actual program that Xerox sold in the late 80's that brought virtually the same interface to the PC. As you can guess, It was a flop & even then, if it had been successful, Micro$oft would have wound up crushing them anyway. Try looking for something called the "Elixir Desktop". You just might find something interesting. On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 02:58:10 +0000, cvendel@att.net said: > Is there a PD program that can be downloaded to run a PC to give it the > look & feel of the original Xerox Altos or Star 8010 ??? > > > > Curt > David M. Vohs Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian Computer Collection: "Triumph": Commodore 64, 1802, 1541, Indus GT, FDD-1, GeoRAM 512, MPS-801. "Leela": Original Apple Macintosh, Imagewriter II. "Delorean": TI-99/4A, TI Speech Synthesizer. "Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer III. "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. "Boombox": Sharp PC-7000. "Butterfly": Tandy 200, PDD-2. "Shapeshifter": Epson QX-10, Comrex HDD, Titan graphics/MS-DOS board. "Scout": Otrona Attache. (prospective) "Pioneer": Apple LISA II (prospective) "Mercury": HP-85. (prospective) "Evolver": Commodore Amiga 2000 "TMA-1": Atari Portfolio, Memory Expander + From bernd at kopriva.de Wed Nov 3 23:54:29 2004 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: No more bids from the EU In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041103195033.00797450@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20041104065545.2B798392BF@linux.local> Hi, this applies only to "business transactions", not to private ones ... ... so i hope, this will not lead to less offers. We are already punished with the expensive shipping costs from the US, i think that's enough :-( Bernd On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 19:50:33 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > Interesting. Looks like I will have to stop selling to Germany at least. >Too bad I've sold a lot of stuff to the Germans and I've never had a >problem (except LONG delays in customs). This was a German court ruling. >Does it apply to the other EU countries? > > Joe > > >At 05:32 PM 11/3/04 -0500, you wrote: >>Well, it looks like I won't be able to accept bids from the EU anymore: >> >>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/03/ebay_catalogue/ >> > > From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Thu Nov 4 02:12:11 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Big Iron available - Data General Eclipse - plus lots more smaller stuff In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041103201505.0095f210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <43469.127.0.0.1.1099524738.squirrel@127.0.0.1> <58699.127.0.0.1.1098992171.squirrel@127.0.0.1> <58699.127.0.0.1.1098992171.squirrel@127.0.0.1> <3.0.6.32.20041103201505.0095f210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3A9F89B5-2E39-11D9-9C4C-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> What's that little thing on top of the MV system? I think I have seen something like it, same kind of box only 3 or 4 of them side-by-side with a dasher terminal, Brown color. From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Thu Nov 4 02:13:52 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Big Iron available - Data General Eclipse - plus lots more smaller stuff In-Reply-To: References: <58699.127.0.0.1.1098992171.squirrel@127.0.0.1> <43469.127.0.0.1.1099524738.squirrel@127.0.0.1> <068201c4c202$e4b3faa0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <76A37C94-2E39-11D9-9C4C-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Nov 3, 2004, at 6:02 PM, Tom Jennings wrote: > On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Mark Davidson wrote: > >> It's in San Jose, CA... I went over to the location and checked it >> out... it >> looks to be in great shape (although it's been wiped, apparently). >> My only >> concern is that the cabinet doesn't have wheels, so moving it is >> going to be a >> challenge. I'm trying to come up with a decent offer for it because >> I'd love >> to have it! > > GAK!?@#$@ That's stuff's in San Josey?! Please tell the > proprietor that the goddamned Vintage Comp. Faire loonies will > descend on him in a few days and give him $1 on each dime's > worth of landfill! All he has to do is set it to one side for > mere days... > > Where in San Jose?? that pile doesn't look like weirdstuff or Halted... From quapla at xs4all.nl Thu Nov 4 02:13:58 2004 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (quapla@xs4all.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: No more bids from the EU In-Reply-To: <10411032326.ZM25157@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10411032326.ZM25157@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <25478.62.177.191.201.1099556038.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> > On Nov 3 2004, 23:37, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >> On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Christopher McNabb wrote: >> >> > Well, it looks like I won't be able to accept bids from the EU > anymore: >> > >> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/03/ebay_catalogue/ >> Correct, this has been a known law. It's a good law in general, >> but can be "wierd" when it comes to border-crossing situations >> such as ePay. > > I'm not sure the regulations apply to most eBay transactions though. > In the UK, at least, I understand they only apply to *business* to > consumer transactions, not sales by private individuals. And I can't > see how they can be enforced against a seller outside the EU. I agree, as far as I know the 8 day return policy Fred mentioned is only applicable to business here in Holland, not to individuals who sell something. Anyway, when I sell something on ebay, I explicitly state (for the EU buyers) that it is a private sale. Ed From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Nov 4 04:03:41 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: ANSWER (Re: No more bids from the EU) In-Reply-To: <25478.62.177.191.201.1099556038.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: All, I happen to be in Germany now (Braunschweig, for those who care) and nextdoor is a lawyer's office. I printed some of the emails from this thread, and showed them (after asking whether they had time to look at them, of course..) Basically, their answers were: 1. Yes, this (German) law is real, and it is enforced, too. 2. Yes, it applies to all EU countries, although member countries are allowed to amend the (EU) law, as Germany and Holland did. 3. Yes, this only goes for *business-to-consumer* transactions. So, if you buy your new (well, almost ;-) UNIVAC off ePay, it must be explicitly noted (in both the auction page *and* the final invoice) that this is a private sale (see Ed's comment), or else (by default) it is a business sale to a consumer, which means "the" law is in effect. This would have an impact on dealers only, I guess, such as Ed Kelleher, as they do "regular" business sales on ePay, but not on private sales, such as JoeR sellimg me his RL11. Cheers, Fred From Pres at macro-inc.com Thu Nov 4 04:47:56 2004 From: Pres at macro-inc.com (Ed Kelleher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: ANSWER (Re: No more bids from the EU) In-Reply-To: References: <25478.62.177.191.201.1099556038.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041104053344.033afdf0@192.168.0.1> At 05:03 AM 11/4/2004, you wrote: >This would have an impact on dealers only, I guess, such as Ed >Kelleher, as they do "regular" business sales on ePay, but not >on private sales, such as JoeR sellimg me his RL11. Actually, I buy things on eBay but have never sold anything on eBay. I just have a website with my old DEC stuff for sale. Just a method to reduce my inventory as service work on DEC equipment declines. Most of my customers for these items are other businesses, many international. People have remarked that my prices are high. That's because it is my policy to test things thoroughly before I ship and also accept returns. And I do give stuff away also (free item, free shipping) from time to time when it pleases me. Though on this list, I probably shouldn't mention that. :-) Ed K. From RMeenaks at OLF.COM Thu Nov 4 05:16:43 2004 From: RMeenaks at OLF.COM (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Surviving UK Transputer systems... Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B5584780700F66D@exchange.olf.com> The board is a Niche Technologies NT1000 Advanced Computing Platform. Never seen one, but that is what it is. Niche became absorbed somewhat by Transtech later on. So, some of their products were later manufactured by transtech. The NT1000 was re-named to something else by transtech, don't remember the name. I get back to you on that. Niche made several sun transputer boards. Martin Frank OAKES used to work there and when Niche got bought out, they formed K-Par Systems which designed software and some hardware as well. I talked to Martin a while back, very nice chap. Talk to him if you need more details. His website is: http://www.vine.co.uk/ Cheers. Ram -----Original Message----- From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 12:07 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Surviving UK Transputer systems... > > 9U. Do you got a picture of this? Never seen a 9U Eurocard > transputer No picture yet. I can take one sometime, but it will be on film (and I have no scanner), as I will only buy a digitial camera when the quality exceeds that of my existing medium and large format film cameras... It looks like a normal Sun 3 board (with the metal pannel, carrying some DC37 connectors, presumanly for external trasnputer links). > board. Who made it? Whats wrong with that Museum??? It claims to be have been made by Niche Technologies Ltd. Never heard of them. As regards what's wrong with the museum, I'd rather my machines were used by people who actually appreciate them. That's quita apart from the fact that I've had experience of said museum and some of their policies (at least 10 years ago) left a lot to be desired. -tony (c) 2004 OpenLink Financial Copyright in this message and any attachments remains with us. It is confidential and may be legally privileged. If this message is not intended for you it must not be read, copied or used by you or disclosed to anyone else. Please advise the sender immediately if you have received this message in error. Although this message and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss or damage in any way arising from its use. From charlesb at otcgaming.net Thu Nov 4 05:33:42 2004 From: charlesb at otcgaming.net (charlesb@otcgaming.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Surviving UK Transputer systems... References: <1099521771.21848.51.camel@weka.localdomain> <4189655A.7070208@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <002101c4c262$242bcb90$0100a8c0@gamemachine> excuse the stupid question, but what's a transputer? is it just like a cluster in a box ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Honniball" To: ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 11:10 PM Subject: Re: Surviving UK Transputer systems... > Jules Richardson wrote: >> Does anyone know of any complete Transputer systems (i.e. several >> processors, cabinet, front-end control system etc.) from the '90's that >> still survive within the UK? --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 01/11/2004 From charlesb at otcgaming.net Thu Nov 4 05:39:08 2004 From: charlesb at otcgaming.net (charlesb@otcgaming.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Tandy (Sheffield - UK) References: <014701c4c202$d10d4f10$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <003701c4c262$e6175990$0100a8c0@gamemachine> I live in huddersfield, so i'll try to save it if i can. missus is already moaning that i've too much stuff tho :D ----- Original Message ----- From: "Antonio Carlini" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 12:11 AM Subject: Tandy (Sheffield - UK) > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5134716529&ssP > ageName=STRK:MEWA:IT > > Anyone anywhere near Sheffield (UK) who can save this? > I'd do it but I'm way too far away! --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 01/11/2004 From RMeenaks at OLF.COM Thu Nov 4 07:17:15 2004 From: RMeenaks at OLF.COM (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Surviving UK Transputer systems... Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B5584780700F66E@exchange.olf.com> A transputer is just like any other processor with memory, etc, etc. Except that it has two unique attributes: 1) Has communication links so that you can hook it up to other transputer nodes (or other peripherals). This allowed you to create a multiprocessor system with several nodes (seen transputer networks of 1024 nodes at one time). It was like LEGO for parallel processing. The technology that was designed for the transputer is now slowing creaping into modern processors. Not bad for a mid 80's processor.... 2) Has micro-coded scheduler which allows you to create multi-processes inside a single CPU. It supported two priorities in high and low. You could do parallel processing in assembly with this baby! This is all embedded inside the CPU core. Designed around the mid 80's and had an EOL (End-of-life) around the late 90's. Quite a remarkable CPU and it was quite fast too compared to the 386 of that era. See my website at http://www.classiccmp.org/transputer for more info/links... Cheers, Ram -----Original Message----- From: charlesb@otcgaming.net [mailto:charlesb@otcgaming.net] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 6:34 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Surviving UK Transputer systems... excuse the stupid question, but what's a transputer? is it just like a cluster in a box ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Honniball" To: ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 11:10 PM Subject: Re: Surviving UK Transputer systems... > Jules Richardson wrote: >> Does anyone know of any complete Transputer systems (i.e. several >> processors, cabinet, front-end control system etc.) from the '90's >> that still survive within the UK? --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 01/11/2004 (c) 2004 OpenLink Financial Copyright in this message and any attachments remains with us. It is confidential and may be legally privileged. If this message is not intended for you it must not be read, copied or used by you or disclosed to anyone else. Please advise the sender immediately if you have received this message in error. Although this message and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss or damage in any way arising from its use. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Nov 4 08:02:20 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Cleaning gungy Flexowriter Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041104090220.00a0dd00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I asked about cleaning up the Flexowriters and a friend of mine reminded me that the old typewriter shops had vats of solvent that they would dunk the entire assembly into (taking off electrical and rubber parts before-hand). These are pretty nasty so I thought that sounding like a good idea. I was thinking of using minerals spirits. Anybody have any experience with using that on electromechanical stuff? Any sugggestions? I thought I'd remove the platen and belt on the RH side and any other rubber parts that I could see. Does anyone know if there are any parts inside the Flexowriters that should be removed first? Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Nov 4 08:10:54 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Surviving UK Transputer systems... In-Reply-To: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B5584780700F66E@exchange.olf.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041104091054.00a0b550@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:17 AM 11/4/04 -0500, Ram wrote: >A transputer is just like any other processor with memory, etc, etc. Except >that it has two unique attributes: > >1) Has communication links so that you can hook it up to other transputer >nodes (or other peripherals). This allowed you to create a multiprocessor >system with several nodes (seen transputer networks of 1024 nodes at one >time). It was like LEGO for parallel processing. The technology that was >designed for the transputer is now slowing creaping into modern processors. >Not bad for a mid 80's processor.... > >2) Has micro-coded scheduler which allows you to create multi-processes >inside a single CPU. It supported two priorities in high and low. You >could do parallel processing in assembly with this baby! This is all >embedded inside the CPU core. Designed around the mid 80's and had an EOL >(End-of-life) around the late 90's. Quite a remarkable CPU and it was quite >fast too compared to the 386 of that era. See my website at >http://www.classiccmp.org/transputer for more info/links... I looked at the data sheets on your website so that I would know that the parts and part numbers looked like. Does anyone other that INMOS and Thompson make these? I find lots of parallel computing equipment so there should be some transputer stuff in there too. I have found a lot of high speed parallel stuff with INMOS parts but I think it's older (early 80s) than the transputers. But the transputer stuff should show up one day. Joe From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Nov 4 08:26:23 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Cleaning gungy Flexowriter In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041104090220.00a0dd00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041104090220.00a0dd00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1099578383.23462.42.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-11-04 at 09:02 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > Anybody have any experience with using that on electromechanical stuff? > Any sugggestions? No, but let me know how you get on. We've got a Flexowriter what we want to hook up to our Marconi at some point (as it had one way back when). The only viable one we have is complete and OK cosmetically, but in need of a complete strip down and rebuild. > I > thought I'd remove the platen and belt on the RH side and any other rubber > parts that I could see. Does anyone know if there are any parts inside the > Flexowriters that should be removed first? I've heard before that the belts are prone to failure - if you find anywhere that can do spares then shout :) Actually I might bring our Flexowriter home and start going over it... no doubt I'll unearth some horrors along the way :) cheers Jules -- "We thought you was a toad!" From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Nov 4 08:31:16 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Surviving UK Transputer systems... In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041104091054.00a0b550@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041104091054.00a0b550@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1099578676.23445.46.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-11-04 at 09:10 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > Does anyone other that INMOS and Thompson make these? I remember using a Meiko computer surface way back when, but I suspect that may have just been a bunch of Inmos boards behind the scenes (or something else, and didn't even qualify as a strict transputer system) Details on the web seem rather hazy unfortunately. cheers Jules From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Nov 4 08:35:25 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Cleaning gungy Flexowriter In-Reply-To: <1099578383.23462.42.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <3.0.6.32.20041104090220.00a0dd00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041104090220.00a0dd00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041104093525.00954a90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:26 PM 11/4/04 +0000, you wrote: >On Thu, 2004-11-04 at 09:02 -0500, Joe R. wrote: >> Anybody have any experience with using that on electromechanical stuff? >> Any sugggestions? > >No, but let me know how you get on. We've got a Flexowriter what we want >to hook up to our Marconi at some point (as it had one way back when). >The only viable one we have is complete and OK cosmetically, but in need >of a complete strip down and rebuild. > >> I >> thought I'd remove the platen and belt on the RH side and any other rubber >> parts that I could see. Does anyone know if there are any parts inside the >> Flexowriters that should be removed first? > >I've heard before that the belts are prone to failure - if you find >anywhere that can do spares then shout :) At least one of these still has the belt on it. But I know that it's probably shot so I'm planning on taking it off and taking it to a industrial belting place and see if they can matrch it up with something more modern. I was able to find belts there for the HP-85 so they seem to have a good selection. > >Actually I might bring our Flexowriter home and start going over it... >no doubt I'll unearth some horrors along the way :) Do it. Misery loves company. We can swap horror stories :-) Joe > >cheers > >Jules > >-- >"We thought you was a toad!" > From RMeenaks at OLF.COM Thu Nov 4 08:37:07 2004 From: RMeenaks at OLF.COM (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Surviving UK Transputer systems... Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B5584780700F675@exchange.olf.com> The transputer CPU was made by INMOS (which was later bought out by SGS-Thompson which became ST-Microelectronics). However, there were several manufacturers of transputer equipment. Some of the popular ones are INMOS, Transtech, Niche, Parsytec, Sundance, and Parsys. See the specs page for a list of vendors. This is not complete at all and only contains vendors I have info on. What type of INMOS stuff do you have??? Thanks, Ram -----Original Message----- From: Joe R. [mailto:rigdonj@cfl.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 9:11 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: Surviving UK Transputer systems... At 08:17 AM 11/4/04 -0500, Ram wrote: >A transputer is just like any other processor with memory, etc, etc. >Except that it has two unique attributes: > >1) Has communication links so that you can hook it up to other >transputer nodes (or other peripherals). This allowed you to create a >multiprocessor system with several nodes (seen transputer networks of >1024 nodes at one time). It was like LEGO for parallel processing. >The technology that was designed for the transputer is now slowing >creaping into modern processors. Not bad for a mid 80's processor.... > >2) Has micro-coded scheduler which allows you to create multi-processes >inside a single CPU. It supported two priorities in high and low. You >could do parallel processing in assembly with this baby! This is all >embedded inside the CPU core. Designed around the mid 80's and had an >EOL >(End-of-life) around the late 90's. Quite a remarkable CPU and it was quite >fast too compared to the 386 of that era. See my website at >http://www.classiccmp.org/transputer for more info/links... I looked at the data sheets on your website so that I would know that the parts and part numbers looked like. Does anyone other that INMOS and Thompson make these? I find lots of parallel computing equipment so there should be some transputer stuff in there too. I have found a lot of high speed parallel stuff with INMOS parts but I think it's older (early 80s) than the transputers. But the transputer stuff should show up one day. Joe (c) 2004 OpenLink Financial Copyright in this message and any attachments remains with us. It is confidential and may be legally privileged. If this message is not intended for you it must not be read, copied or used by you or disclosed to anyone else. Please advise the sender immediately if you have received this message in error. Although this message and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss or damage in any way arising from its use. From RMeenaks at OLF.COM Thu Nov 4 08:38:41 2004 From: RMeenaks at OLF.COM (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Surviving UK Transputer systems... Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B5584780700F676@exchange.olf.com> Meiko was actually started by a bunch of former INMOS engineers. They made their own hardware/software. They had several Computing Surfaces through the years. The early ones were transputer based and then they switch to Sparc processors..... Ram -----Original Message----- From: Jules Richardson [mailto:julesrichardsonuk@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 9:31 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Surviving UK Transputer systems... On Thu, 2004-11-04 at 09:10 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > Does anyone other that INMOS and Thompson make these? I remember using a Meiko computer surface way back when, but I suspect that may have just been a bunch of Inmos boards behind the scenes (or something else, and didn't even qualify as a strict transputer system) Details on the web seem rather hazy unfortunately. cheers Jules (c) 2004 OpenLink Financial Copyright in this message and any attachments remains with us. It is confidential and may be legally privileged. If this message is not intended for you it must not be read, copied or used by you or disclosed to anyone else. Please advise the sender immediately if you have received this message in error. Although this message and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss or damage in any way arising from its use. From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Thu Nov 4 08:42:16 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Big Iron available - Data General Eclipse - plus lots moresmaller stuff In-Reply-To: <3A9F89B5-2E39-11D9-9C4C-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <001f01c4c27c$7ab40d50$6e7ba8c0@p933> The best we could figure it was some sort of MUX for terminal or modem sharing. I'm still not sure, though, but it goes with the machine. Erik -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ron Hudson Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 12:12 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Big Iron available - Data General Eclipse - plus lots moresmaller stuff What's that little thing on top of the MV system? I think I have seen something like it, same kind of box only 3 or 4 of them side-by-side with a dasher terminal, Brown color. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Nov 4 09:39:14 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Surviving UK Transputer systems... In-Reply-To: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B5584780700F675@exchange.olf.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041104103914.00956290@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:37 AM 11/4/04 -0500, you wrote: >The transputer CPU was made by INMOS (which was later bought out by >SGS-Thompson which became ST-Microelectronics). However, there were several >manufacturers of transputer equipment. Some of the popular ones are INMOS, >Transtech, Niche, Parsytec, Sundance, and Parsys. See the specs page for a >list of vendors. This is not complete at all and only contains vendors I >have info on. What type of INMOS stuff do you have??? I have some very high speed memory (at least for it's day!) And IIRC I have a couple huge boards full of GAPP processors. IIRC there are two boards about 24" square and there's several thousand GAPP procesors on them. Joe > >Thanks, > >Ram > >-----Original Message----- >From: Joe R. [mailto:rigdonj@cfl.rr.com] >Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 9:11 AM >To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >Subject: RE: Surviving UK Transputer systems... > > >At 08:17 AM 11/4/04 -0500, Ram wrote: >>A transputer is just like any other processor with memory, etc, etc. >>Except that it has two unique attributes: >> >>1) Has communication links so that you can hook it up to other >>transputer nodes (or other peripherals). This allowed you to create a >>multiprocessor system with several nodes (seen transputer networks of >>1024 nodes at one time). It was like LEGO for parallel processing. >>The technology that was designed for the transputer is now slowing >>creaping into modern processors. Not bad for a mid 80's processor.... >> >>2) Has micro-coded scheduler which allows you to create multi-processes >>inside a single CPU. It supported two priorities in high and low. You >>could do parallel processing in assembly with this baby! This is all >>embedded inside the CPU core. Designed around the mid 80's and had an >>EOL >>(End-of-life) around the late 90's. Quite a remarkable CPU and it was >quite >>fast too compared to the 386 of that era. See my website at >>http://www.classiccmp.org/transputer for more info/links... > > > I looked at the data sheets on your website so that I would know that the >parts and part numbers looked like. Does anyone other that INMOS and >Thompson make these? I find lots of parallel computing equipment so there >should be some transputer stuff in there too. I have found a lot of high >speed parallel stuff with INMOS parts but I think it's older (early 80s) >than the transputers. But the transputer stuff should show up one day. > > Joe > > >(c) 2004 OpenLink Financial > >Copyright in this message and any attachments remains with us. It is >confidential and may be legally privileged. If this message is not >intended for you it must not be read, copied or used by you or >disclosed to anyone else. Please advise the sender immediately if >you have received this message in error. > >Although this message and any attachments are believed to be free of >any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into >which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the >recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility >is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss or damage in any >way arising from its use. > > > From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Nov 4 10:00:21 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: SWTPC 6809 In-Reply-To: <007201c4c224$b6a95b60$6401a8c0@ibm6go1addn6c0> References: <58699.127.0.0.1.1098992171.squirrel@127.0.0.1> <58699.127.0.0.1.1098992171.squirrel@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20041103194710.04b72410@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041104103744.00b07640@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Paul A. Pennington may have mentioned these words: > Roger said: > > > [[ I've been looking for a 'boxed' 6809 system for a long time, say a >>Chieftain, Gimix or SWTPC... ]] > > There's a SWTPC 6809 system on eBay right now: > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=5135265112&rd=1 Holy... I guess I don't want one of those that bad anymore... ... Well, OK, maybe I do, but not at that price! :-O I wonder what his reserve is... Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers _??_ zmerch@30below.com (?||?) If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead _)(_ disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Nov 4 10:04:41 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Rescue Help Needed in Texas Message-ID: <005101c4c288$01857200$7a406b43@66067007> I will be renting a UHAUL truck on Saturday (11/6) to pickup some items about 20 miles outside of Austin and could use some muscle power. If anyone on the list lives close to Austin and could meet me at the UHAUL place on 290 W. (in Austin) contact me off list. Thanks I will leaving Houston around 7AM and be getting there no later than 10:30AM to pick up the truck and drive on from there. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Nov 4 10:39:24 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:29 2005 Subject: Cleaning gungy Flexowriter In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041104093525.00954a90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <1099578383.23462.42.camel@weka.localdomain> <3.0.6.32.20041104090220.00a0dd00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041104090220.00a0dd00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041104113924.00a2c590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I'm making good progress on cleaning up the first Flexowriter. Can anyone tell me how to get the carriage out? Or should I even try? It looks like I'm missing the bottom cover off of this one. Anybody have a spare? A few of the keycaps are smashed so I'm looking for those if anyone has any extras. Pictures and more details later. I've been told that Ammonia is good for cleaning rubber and won't damage it. Can anyone verify this? Joe From allain at panix.com Thu Nov 4 11:11:29 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: Cleaning gungy Flexowriter References: <1099578383.23462.42.camel@weka.localdomain><3.0.6.32.20041104090220.00a0dd00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><3.0.6.32.20041104090220.00a0dd00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041104113924.00a2c590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <03d201c4c291$5c3f1120$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I've been told that Ammonia is good for cleaning rubber and > won't damage it. Can anyone verify this? I use windex (mostly ammonia) for cleaning everything at first, usually in a momentary contact sort of way, IE, not soaking for days. I have no, 0, incidents to report. Been doing it for years. Heard a rumor once that it shouldn't be gotten on car body paint, but that's just a rumor and OT here. John A. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Nov 4 11:28:39 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: SWTPC 6809 Message-ID: <200411041728.JAA23757@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Roger Merchberger" > >Rumor has it that Paul A. Pennington may have mentioned these words: >> Roger said: >> >> > [[ I've been looking for a 'boxed' 6809 system for a long time, say a >>>Chieftain, Gimix or SWTPC... ]] >> >> There's a SWTPC 6809 system on eBay right now: >> >> >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=5135265112&rd =1 > >Holy... I guess I don't want one of those that bad anymore... > >... Well, OK, maybe I do, but not at that price! :-O I wonder what his >reserve is... > >Thanks, >Roger "Merch" Merchberger Hi I always love the term "Power Up". About all that means is that some light will go on and there is little or no smoke. Dwight From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Nov 4 11:46:09 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: SWTPC 6809 In-Reply-To: <200411041728.JAA23757@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200411041728.JAA23757@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <1099590369.23445.88.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-11-04 at 09:28 -0800, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > I always love the term "Power Up". About all that means > is that some light will go on and there is little or no smoke. Any they never mention the burning dust smell, nor the bits of decayed air filter that get blasted through any ventilation fans :-) -- "We thought you was a toad!" From technobug at comcast.net Thu Nov 4 11:58:16 2004 From: technobug at comcast.net (CRC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: GPIB Interface In-Reply-To: <200411041800.iA4I03OQ046842@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200411041800.iA4I03OQ046842@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <1ACBE318-2E8B-11D9-B151-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> For those interested in hooking up GPIB equipment to your VAXen, I ran across on ePay an IEZ11 SCSI to GPIB interface that was designed for VMS. . Open VMS has a driver for the beast albeit retired... CRC From charlesb at otcgaming.net Thu Nov 4 12:05:57 2004 From: charlesb at otcgaming.net (charlesb@otcgaming.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: Interesting find References: <200411041728.JAA23757@clulw009.amd.com> <1099590369.23445.88.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <00bc01c4c298$efbe2510$0100a8c0@gamemachine> doing my usual EPay Trawl I came across this. If any1 wants it, I can go pick it up for them and store it. Quote: " Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1 with PerSCI Dual 8" Drives This is an S-100 bus systems, commonly used for running CP/M, of late 1970s vintage. I think that the PSU in the drives has failed, so I'm unable to boot or test the system further, however all das blinkelights seem to work properly. In the system are the following cards: Cromemco ZPU Info2000 Discomem Cromemco IO Card (2xserial, 2xparallel) 32K memory card Collection from Wirral, preferred. " http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5729972628&rd=1 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 01/11/2004 From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Nov 4 12:10:18 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: Cleaning gungy Flexowriter In-Reply-To: <03d201c4c291$5c3f1120$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <1099578383.23462.42.camel@weka.localdomain> <3.0.6.32.20041104090220.00a0dd00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041104090220.00a0dd00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041104113924.00a2c590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041104131018.008a1b00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> OK more questions. The keys on these are covered with white mildew. What's the best stuff to clean them with and should I put anything on them after they're clean to preserve them. I ran into a problem. Something heavy had been dropped on the keyboard of this one and several of the metal levers that the keycaps mount on are bent or broken. How hard is it to take this section apart so that I can repair the levers? Also where is the IO connector on this beast? I found terminal strip on the back inside but there's only about 6 wires on it and it doesn't look like it's made for external IO. BTW I found that this is a model FL and the name plate says that it's a "Recorder/Reproducer". Joe At 12:11 PM 11/4/04 -0500, you wrote: >> I've been told that Ammonia is good for cleaning rubber and >> won't damage it. Can anyone verify this? > >I use windex (mostly ammonia) for cleaning everything at first, >usually in a momentary contact sort of way, IE, not soaking for >days. I have no, 0, incidents to report. Been doing it for years. >Heard a rumor once that it shouldn't be gotten on car body >paint, but that's just a rumor and OT here. > >John A. > > > From medavidson at mac.com Thu Nov 4 12:26:07 2004 From: medavidson at mac.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: Big Iron available - Data General Eclipse - plus lots more smaller stuff In-Reply-To: <76A37C94-2E39-11D9-9C4C-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> References: <58699.127.0.0.1.1098992171.squirrel@127.0.0.1> <43469.127.0.0.1.1099524738.squirrel@127.0.0.1> <068201c4c202$e4b3faa0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <76A37C94-2E39-11D9-9C4C-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On Nov 4, 2004, at 12:13 AM, Ron Hudson wrote: > > On Nov 3, 2004, at 6:02 PM, Tom Jennings wrote: > >> On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Mark Davidson wrote: >> >>> It's in San Jose, CA... I went over to the location and checked it >>> out... it >>> looks to be in great shape (although it's been wiped, apparently). >>> My only >>> concern is that the cabinet doesn't have wheels, so moving it is >>> going to be a >>> challenge. I'm trying to come up with a decent offer for it because >>> I'd love >>> to have it! >> >> GAK!?@#$@ That's stuff's in San Josey?! Please tell the >> proprietor that the goddamned Vintage Comp. Faire loonies will >> descend on him in a few days and give him $1 on each dime's >> worth of landfill! All he has to do is set it to one side for >> mere days... >> >> > > Where in San Jose?? that pile doesn't look like weirdstuff or > Halted... > > It's at Weird Stuff. Mark From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Nov 4 13:23:04 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: GPIB Interface In-Reply-To: <1ACBE318-2E8B-11D9-B151-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> References: <200411041800.iA4I03OQ046842@huey.classiccmp.org> <200411041800.iA4I03OQ046842@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041104142040.04f16648@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that CRC may have mentioned these words: >For those interested in hooking up GPIB equipment to your VAXen, I ran >across on ePay an IEZ11 SCSI to GPIB interface that was designed for >VMS. >ViewItem&category=39969&item=5136038770&rd=1>. Open VMS has a driver >for the beast albeit retired... > > CRC Speaking of GPIB, I saw one of these (or somesuch very similar) at my neighborly Chevy dealer when I needed to get a software update for my rear-view mirror on my Avalanche: http://www.measurementcomputing.com/cbicatalog/cbiproduct_new.asp?dept_id=202&pf_id=1570&mscssid=SW92TXJK2NT29L7B415QTN3SPNN09VF0 (beware of linewrapping) It's a GPIB to USB interface, and works with Winders and maybe Linux. As I own nothing that's GPIB that I know of, it was little more than a curiousity to me, but just in case others who do didn't know these exist... ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Bugs of a feather flock together." sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Russell Nelson zmerch@30below.com | From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Nov 4 13:33:14 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: GPIB Interface In-Reply-To: <1ACBE318-2E8B-11D9-B151-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> References: <200411041800.iA4I03OQ046842@huey.classiccmp.org> <1ACBE318-2E8B-11D9-B151-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> Message-ID: In message <1ACBE318-2E8B-11D9-B151-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> CRC wrote: > For those interested in hooking up GPIB equipment to your VAXen, I ran > across on ePay an IEZ11 SCSI to GPIB interface that was designed for > VMS. > ViewItem&category=39969&item=5136038770&rd=1>. Open VMS has a driver > for the beast albeit retired... Speaking of GPIB... Does anyone have a spare PCI or PCMCIA GPIB interface lying around? I've been looking into upgrading the machine I use for downloading IA files to my logic analyser, but no-one seems to sell PC motherboards that have both an ISA slot and an AGP slot, and take a fairly recent CPU. That and PCI GPIB cards seem to sell on ebay for stupidly high prices - I saw one listed as "Untested, no warranty" go for nearly $300... Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Apple: "I know! Let's call it the Raincoat." From tomj at wps.com Thu Nov 4 13:40:07 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: Cleaning gungy Flexowriter In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041104090220.00a0dd00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041104090220.00a0dd00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > I asked about cleaning up the Flexowriters and a friend of mine > reminded me that the old typewriter shops had vats of solvent that they > would dunk the entire assembly into (taking off electrical and rubber parts > before-hand). These are pretty nasty so I thought that sounding like a > good idea. I was thinking of using minerals spirits. Anybody have any > experience with using that on electromechanical stuff? Any sugggestions? I > thought I'd remove the platen and belt on the RH side and any other rubber > parts that I could see. Does anyone know if there are any parts inside the > Flexowriters that should be removed first? This sounds barbaric, and it has it's dangers, but my method is simple. I've used this on two Teletype Model 28s. One had been out in a field in S. Arizona, under a tarp, for 10+ years, and the other in a dusty garage and was filled with dust and cat hair adhered to ancient, gelled lubricant. Took the entire mechanism, rubber, electrics and all, placed on a concrete walkway. Sprayed with garden hose and nozzle to remove bulk crap. Used automotive "purple cleaner" and a paint brush to remove all the congealed lube and dirt. Sprayed with garden hose THOROUGHLY to remove degreaser and crud and most of the paintbrush hairs. Rotate and tilt to remove most water. Left in sun all day, tilted for drainage. Let dry inside for 2? 4? days. The only damage was to the keyboard contacts inside the little tin box, I had to open and clean it out. I lube everything with synthetic grease and 0-weight synthetic motor oil. Water is a great solvent. It's non-toxic, and while it promotes electrochemical corrosion if it lingers too long (ie. rust) it's easily removed. I did #1 6 years ago and there has been no detectable problems since then (eg. incremental corrosion caused by trapped or residue degreaser). From tomj at wps.com Thu Nov 4 13:44:55 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: Cleaning gungy Flexowriter In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041104113924.00a2c590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <1099578383.23462.42.camel@weka.localdomain> <3.0.6.32.20041104090220.00a0dd00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041104090220.00a0dd00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041104113924.00a2c590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Two more notes on cleaning this stuff: I used the same trick on my 1920's? Model 102 strip printer, but that required partial disassembly of the sliding print bar decoder, it's basically a tight stack of bars and needed mild abrasive cleaning (crocus cloth or something). Both it and the first model 28 have seen 50 - 100 hours of use since cleaning. The other is, the rubber rollers in my Flexo (paper platen, and the weird timing mechanism underneath) are stiff as granite, but it seems to work fine; print quality somewhat wsuffers but not enough to spend a fortune rebuilding. THe timing roller has cracks in the rubber, even, and works, though we'll see how long it lasts in use. I suppose I shoudl carefully record dimensions for later recoating. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Nov 4 15:41:09 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: Cleaning gungy Flexowriter In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20041104090220.00a0dd00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041104090220.00a0dd00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041104164109.0095bba0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:40 AM 11/4/04 -0800, you wrote: >On Thu, 4 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> I asked about cleaning up the Flexowriters and a friend of mine >> reminded me that the old typewriter shops had vats of solvent that they >> would dunk the entire assembly into (taking off electrical and rubber parts >> before-hand). These are pretty nasty so I thought that sounding like a >> good idea. I was thinking of using minerals spirits. Anybody have any >> experience with using that on electromechanical stuff? Any sugggestions? I >> thought I'd remove the platen and belt on the RH side and any other rubber >> parts that I could see. Does anyone know if there are any parts inside the >> Flexowriters that should be removed first? > >This sounds barbaric, and it has it's dangers, but my method >is simple. I've used this on two Teletype Model 28s. One had >been out in a field in S. Arizona, under a tarp, for 10+ years, >and the other in a dusty garage and was filled with dust and >cat hair adhered to ancient, gelled lubricant. > > >Took the entire mechanism, rubber, electrics and all, placed >on a concrete walkway. > >Sprayed with garden hose and nozzle to remove bulk crap. > >Used automotive "purple cleaner" and a paint brush to remove >all the congealed lube and dirt. > >Sprayed with garden hose THOROUGHLY to remove degreaser and >crud and most of the paintbrush hairs. > >Rotate and tilt to remove most water. > >Left in sun all day, tilted for drainage. Let dry inside for >2? 4? days. > >The only damage was to the keyboard contacts inside the little >tin box, I had to open and clean it out. > >I lube everything with synthetic grease and 0-weight synthetic >motor oil. > > >Water is a great solvent. It's non-toxic, and while it promotes >electrochemical corrosion if it lingers too long (ie. rust) >it's easily removed. > >I did #1 6 years ago and there has been no detectable problems >since then (eg. incremental corrosion caused by trapped or >residue degreaser). > I opened up the Flexowriter today and decided against bathing it in anything. There are too many open switches, electromagnets and other things that don't look like they'd be happy in water or mineral spirits. I cleaned it bit by bit with a toothbrush and a vaccuum cleaner to get the crud out. I sprayed WD-40 in places where it wouldn't hurt and then wiped it up with paper towels. That picked up a lot of the dust and dirt that was sticking to everything. It took all day but I finally got it reasonable clean. A lot of the mechanical stuff was frozen due to solidified grease. Even the motor was frozen. I had to take it out and turn by hand for a few minutes to get it lossened up enough to run. I finally got the first Flexowriter running. Sort of. The motor runs but the belt slips most of the time. The gear train in the thing is TIGHT. I don't know for sure why but among other things the clutch for the belt that drives the carriage seems to be frozen on. The carriage runs to the right and it's still trying to drive it. I can push it back to the left (with power off) but it hard to move. Before I applied power I was able to move it left and right easily. I don't know why it's so hard to move now. Normally the black buttons on the left and right of the carriage release it and let you move it back to the left easily but after the motor moves it to the right they have no affect. I'd still like to find a way to take the entire carriage off so that I can clean everything in the center under it. I REALLY need a manual that explains how this thing works! Joe From kenziem at sympatico.ca Thu Nov 4 15:42:38 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: Anything in the Ottawa - Toronto - Guelph area? Message-ID: <200411041642.39616.kenziem@sympatico.ca> I'll be making a trip this weekend to pick up a few ICON's. Passing throught Toronto from Ottawa on route to Guelph. Since I'm renting a van for the trip I may have some space for additional machines. -- Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 Machines to trade http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/trade.html Open Source Weekend http://www.osw.ca From vcf at siconic.com Thu Nov 4 15:46:46 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: No more bids from the EU In-Reply-To: <20041104065545.2B798392BF@linux.local> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Nov 2004, Bernd Kopriva wrote: > this applies only to "business transactions", not to private ones ... > ... so i hope, this will not lead to less offers. > We are already punished with the expensive shipping costs from the US, > i think that's enough :-( Bruce Damer of the DigiBarn worked on Elixir, and his story about it is here: http://www.damer.com/pictures/elixir/products/star.html You can probably get the software from him too. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Nov 4 15:54:09 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: Interesting find In-Reply-To: <00bc01c4c298$efbe2510$0100a8c0@gamemachine> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 charlesb@otcgaming.net wrote: > doing my usual EPay Trawl I came across this. > > If any1 wants it, I can go pick it up for them and store it. > > Quote: > > " > Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1 with PerSCI Dual 8" Drives > > This is an S-100 bus systems, commonly used for running CP/M, of late 1970s > vintage. I think that the PSU in the drives has failed, so I'm unable to > boot or test the system further, however all das blinkelights seem to work > properly. In the system are the following cards: > > Cromemco ZPU > Info2000 Discomem > Cromemco IO Card (2xserial, 2xparallel) > 32K memory card > > Collection from Wirral, preferred. " UKP50 for this is a steal. I'm sure someone will end up with it. These are among the rarer S-100 machines from the 1970s. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Nov 4 16:12:29 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: more Flexowriter Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041104171229.00a0d250@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I've been cleaning and repairing the Flexowriter today. While I was working on it I took some pictures. Here they are. The first ones show it just the way that I got it. This is what it looked like when I got it. Here is a picture of the left side with the PT reader and punch . Here is a picture of the back showing the label . Right hand side . One of neat things about it is that it has a stand built into the back of it so that you can stand it up and work underneath it. Here is a picture of the stand . It has two shafts that stick out of the back on the machine near the top and a shaft with two wheels that runs across the bottom. The wheels on the shaft are wood! OK enough of the "dirty" pictures. Here's some more after I cleaned it up a bit. Here's what the bottom looks like. Note that it's sitting up on the built-in stand. . Here are closeups of the motor and the two connectors coming from the PT Reader and Punch . Here is a closeup of the PT punch with the cover removed, . And here is a close up of the PT Reader with the cover removed, . Another close up of the bottom showing the self tensioner for the carriage drive belt and AC terminal strip. The last picture shows the "stuff" on the RH side with the cover removed. The switches at the RH are used to generate the six bit character code. I believe the round deice in the center is the clutch for the carriage drive belt. It seems to be stuck ON at the moment. The belt in the picture is the one that drives the carriage left and right. I'm not sure what the electromagnet on the bottom left is for. The power switch is shown above the electromagnet. . Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 4 16:23:49 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: Cleaning gungy Flexowriter In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041104090220.00a0dd00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at Nov 4, 4 09:02:20 am Message-ID: > > I asked about cleaning up the Flexowriters and a friend of mine > reminded me that the old typewriter shops had vats of solvent that they > would dunk the entire assembly into (taking off electrical and rubber parts > before-hand). These are pretty nasty so I thought that sounding like a > good idea. I was thinking of using minerals spirits. Anybody have any > experience with using that on electromechanical stuff? Any sugggestions? I > thought I'd remove the platen and belt on the RH side and any other rubber > parts that I could see. Does anyone know if there are any parts inside the > Flexowriters that should be removed first? When I did mine, I found that the flexowriter can be stripped down into modules very easily. It's about 10 years since I did it (so I am going to forget some details), but I can rememebr you take out the platten and all the external covers, then stand it on its back and undo 2 screws holding the encoder chassis in place. Swing that out, then uplug the punch and reader cables, undo the captive screws holding the punch and reader in place, and take hose out. Loosen the setscrew on the encoder support rond, slide that out and remove the encoder. Take out the screws holding the the decoder under the keyboard, unhook it from the key rails, unplug the cables, take it out. Take out the drive roller. This is spring-loaded towards the drive gear side. Force it away from the drive gear with a screwdriver, it'll flip out. Take put the drvie gear (the spindle stub presses out), the belts, driveshaft/pulleys, etc. I remember removing the carriage, and I rememebr it was quite easy, but I forget the details You then dismantle the carrirage return clutch at the right hand side, take out the screws holding the main chassis in position, and take it out. The individual modules strip down very easily. I cleaned all the parts in various solvents -- white spirit (I think that's mineral spirits to you), paraffin (kerosene), petrol (gasoline). The safety nazis can have a field day over that, and obviously you must do the cleaning outside with no sources of ignition. I have never liked the idea of soaking a mechanism in solvent. I know _all_ clock restores object to the practice, and these mechanisms are of abotu the same size and precision. Two more things I remmeber. You need a set of Bristol Spline keys for some of the setscrews (it is based on an IBM design after all). And the carriage step escapement has a 4 rows of ball bearings that will go everywhere when you strip it unless you know to catch them. Stick them back in place with grease when assembling as usual, of course. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 4 16:30:54 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: Cleaning gungy Flexowriter In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041104131018.008a1b00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at Nov 4, 4 01:10:18 pm Message-ID: > > OK more questions. The keys on these are covered with white mildew. > What's the best stuff to clean them with and should I put anything on them > after they're clean to preserve them. I ran into a problem. Something > heavy had been dropped on the keyboard of this one and several of the metal > levers that the keycaps mount on are bent or broken. How hard is it to take > this section apart so that I can repair the levers? Also where is the IO Not too hard (I managed it). You have to take the main chassis out (see my previous message), then at the bottom you loosen off the screws holding the clamp strips. slide out the axle rods and take out the snail cam assemblies one at a time (they unclip from the linkages to the type bars). Note that there are some 'odd' snail cams, so keep them in order. Then you remove the key pressure adjustment screws and the springs. I can't rememebr if you have to take out the type bars (if so, loosen the screws, remove the semi-circular axles, take them out, keep them in sequence). Slide out the key bar axle and remove the keys. > connector on this beast? I found terminal strip on the back inside but > there's only about 6 wires on it and it doesn't look like it's made for > external IO. BTW I found that this is a model FL and the name plate says > that it's a "Recorder/Reproducer". Mine has a large circualr mil-spec like connector on the back with a loopback plug in it. It's possible yours has no I/O at all -- it may have been made solely for punching and printing paper tapes. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 4 16:38:54 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: Cleaning gungy Flexowriter In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041104164109.0095bba0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at Nov 4, 4 04:41:09 pm Message-ID: > I finally got the first Flexowriter running. Sort of. The motor runs > but the belt slips most of the time. The gear train in the thing is TIGHT. It shoudln't be. With the machine idling (i.e. no snails kicked against the drive roller), it should be very free. Remove the punch and reader first, of course (trivial to do) to eliminate those. In case you've not figured it out, pressing a key releases a snail cam against the drive roller. The roller then flips the cam round, forcing the bracket that holds the cam away from the roller. This operates the type bar. It's a standard mechanism for electric typewrtiers. The transmit output comes from the contacts at the RHS near the carriage return clutch. The rials in the encoder frame connect to the snail brackets, when the brackets are forced away from the roller, the encoder rail moves, lifting the switch actuator bails, operating the contacts. The receive input goes to solenoids in the decoder box under the keyboard. The operate more rails, which allow a key actuator to drop in place, pulling down the apropraite key lever. > I don't know for sure why but among other things the clutch for the belt > that drives the carriage seems to be frozen on. The carriage runs to the > right and it's still trying to drive it. I can push it back to the left Now, I am tryint to rememebr things... That clutch has a bistable linkage. It's set (i.e. the clutch is engaged) by one of the snails, connected to the return key. I can't remember what resets it, probably the carriage getting to the home position (is this adjustable?) That should give you some idea as to what to look for. -tony From tomj at wps.com Thu Nov 4 17:18:40 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: Cleaning gungy Flexowriter In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041104164109.0095bba0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041104090220.00a0dd00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041104090220.00a0dd00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041104164109.0095bba0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > I opened up the Flexowriter today and decided against bathing it in > anything. There are too many open switches, electromagnets and other things > that don't look like they'd be happy in water or mineral spirits. I cleaned > it bit by bit with a toothbrush and a vaccuum cleaner to get the crud out. > I sprayed WD-40 in places where it wouldn't hurt and then wiped it up with > paper towels. That picked up a lot of the dust and dirt that was sticking > to everything. It took all day but I finally got it reasonable clean. A lot > of the mechanical stuff was frozen due to solidified grease. Even the motor > was frozen. I had to take it out and turn by hand for a few minutes to get > it lossened up enough to run. That's a fine approach. Go buy a hypodermic type oil can (model railroad places?) and use a nice light synth oil. Hit every single pivot and rotating part! The carriage on mine took extra work. THe carriage rides on a pair of rails that have flat sliders, and therefore stickiness really, well, sticks. I mixed a little oil with synth grease and applied with a popcicle stick to the rails then slid the carrige to the other side and did the same, etc. Took a lot of lube to get it to slide freely. The motor bearings probably want oil too. I slithered some in there but I suppose I should take the motor out and do it right. From tomj at wps.com Thu Nov 4 17:24:16 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: more Flexowriter In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041104171229.00a0d250@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041104171229.00a0d250@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > I've been cleaning and repairing the Flexowriter today. While I was > working on it I took some pictures. Here they are. Wow, it was dirty! Your "recorder/reproducer" seems like it was an offline puncher of tapes. It's not uncommon for there to be an "offline", non-interfaced tty for duplicating tapes, punching tapes, printing, etc. So it might not have an interface at all! That's not bad news though, it means you probably just don't have all the special-purpose junk for some long-lost function. THe keyboard has a parallel output and some form of busy/done timing. Look at David Forbes' code on my website, I'm sure it's in there somewhere. The printer/punch, it's something like, set the data onto the print solenoids, assert a "print" pulse onto some line, and wait for another line to say "done" or just wait N milliseconds. From tomj at wps.com Thu Nov 4 17:29:05 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: Cleaning gungy Flexowriter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Nov 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > I don't know for sure why but among other things the clutch for the belt > > that drives the carriage seems to be frozen on. The carriage runs to the > > right and it's still trying to drive it. I can push it back to the left > > Now, I am tryint to rememebr things... That clutch has a bistable > linkage. It's set (i.e. the clutch is engaged) by one of the snails, > connected to the return key. I can't remember what resets it, probably > the carriage getting to the home position (is this adjustable?) That > should give you some idea as to what to look for. It is a bistable device, and not timed etc, but re-set upon carriage reaching column 0. It's on the right side under a cover or something. I don't recall the mechanism either, I didn't decode it since I realized the problem with mine was simply the rails/journals were very dry and it otherwise worked fine. From jpero at sympatico.ca Thu Nov 4 12:40:21 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: Parts for Allergan Humphrey (vision field analzyer) In-Reply-To: <03d201c4c291$5c3f1120$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20041104233340.NRJF25820.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@wizard> Model 605 by Allergan Humphrey, Instruments/a SmithKline Company Field Analzyer That thing landed at our TV shop with insufficient vertical complaint. (I see it this way as rolling and grabage video). Computer inside is very on topic and old! Intel 8088, 256K, 6845 video with pair of RCA 6264 ram for video etc, small handful of PALs and load of TTL ICs. I used to service TTL stuff like Z19 terminals XTs stuff back in very early 90's at university. So I rubbed my hands in glee because this is my area! Figured out the CPU is "dead" because of no clock feeding it. Hence the grabage rolling vertically and insufficent vertical scan on the monochrome CRT. I noticed that unit has ROM for CPU is missing but that doesn't explain no activity on the CPU even without ROM. I need to be double certain so need older data sheets. Googled for 8088 pin out and I was disappointed. Need to get info. I'll post both photos of that unif and list of IC I need data on them tomorrow night. Cheers, Wizard From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Nov 4 20:45:23 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: awesome!! (DEC) Message-ID: <000b01c4c2e1$7fbcb440$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Someone (I believe a non-listmember) sent me this pic out of the blue... DECies will want to see it. It was sent to me with the following quote.... "There are a few of us still out there" Picture is at http://www.ezwind.net/jwest/RSX11M.jpg :) Jay West From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Nov 4 21:32:16 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: Anything in the Ottawa - Toronto - Guelph area? In-Reply-To: <200411041642.39616.kenziem@sympatico.ca> from "Mike Kenzie" at Nov 4, 04 04:42:38 pm Message-ID: <200411050332.WAA29296@wordstock.com> And thusly Mike Kenzie spake: > > I'll be making a trip this weekend to pick up a few ICON's. > I want pictures of them! :) I used to use them in high school... It's where I first learned 'C'. I believe they also used the QNX OS, which coincidently I program under now... :) (Using C, of course!) > Passing throught Toronto from Ottawa on route to Guelph. > Somewhat OT, but there is the Sleeman's brewery in Guelph. ;-) > Since I'm renting a van for the trip I may have some space for additional > machines. An ICON for me? ;) Cheers, Bryan Pope From kenziem at sympatico.ca Thu Nov 4 23:08:38 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: ICON was: Anything in the Ottawa - Toronto - Guelph area? In-Reply-To: <200411050332.WAA29296@wordstock.com> References: <200411050332.WAA29296@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <200411050008.39797.kenziem@sympatico.ca> On Thursday 04 November 2004 22:32, Bryan Pope wrote: > And thusly Mike Kenzie spake: > > I'll be making a trip this weekend to pick up a few ICON's. > > I want pictures of them! :) I used to use them in high school... It's > where I first learned 'C'. I believe they also used the QNX OS, which > coincidently I program under now... :) (Using C, of course!) The best site I've found so far is here http://www.100megspopup.com/redawa/BIC/BIC2.html -- Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 Machines to trade http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/trade.html Open Source Weekend http://www.osw.ca From fernande at internet1.net Fri Nov 5 00:37:43 2004 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: Cleaning gungy Flexowriter In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20041104090220.00a0dd00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <418B1FB7.90603@internet1.net> A word of warning here.... Castrol Super Clean (the original purple degreaser) can degloss paint and fade some plastics. If an alternative can't be found, I'd dilute it with water before contact with the machine. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Tom Jennings wrote: > Used automotive "purple cleaner" and a paint brush to remove > all the congealed lube and dirt. From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri Nov 5 02:59:55 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: Interesting find In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 04 Nov 2004 13:54:09 PST." Message-ID: <200411050859.IAA25887@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, > Cromemco ZPU > Info2000 Discomem > Cromemco IO Card (2xserial, 2xparallel) > 32K memory card > > Collection from Wirral, preferred. " That's just down the road from me...I'll go take a look on ePay.... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From foxvideo at wincom.net Fri Nov 5 05:42:40 2004 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: Anything in the Ottawa - Toronto - Guelph area? In-Reply-To: <200411050332.WAA29296@wordstock.com> References: <200411041642.39616.kenziem@sympatico.ca> <200411050332.WAA29296@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041105064131.01903298@smtp.wincom.net> At 10:32 PM 04/11/2004, you wrote: >And thusly Mike Kenzie spake: > > > > I'll be making a trip this weekend to pick up a few ICON's. > > > >I want pictures of them! :) I used to use them in high school... It's >where I first learned 'C'. I believe they also used the QNX OS, which >coincidently I program under now... :) (Using C, of course!) > > > > Passing throught Toronto from Ottawa on route to Guelph. > > > >Somewhat OT, but there is the Sleeman's brewery in Guelph. ;-) > > > > Since I'm renting a van for the trip I may have some space for additional > > machines. > >An ICON for me? ;) > >Cheers, > >Bryan Pope I'd like one too, if the price is right. Cheers Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Nov 5 07:46:12 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: NZ data recovery place... Message-ID: <1099662372.24981.49.camel@weka.localdomain> Can someone remind me of the URL for that data recovery place in NZ that was mentioned on the list a while ago? Thought I'd bookmarked it, can't find it now... Someone on one of the local usenet groups that I read was asking about data recovery from a dead drive; thought I'd mention the NZ place as I recall them being far cheaper than UK companies... ta Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Nov 5 09:13:21 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: RML 380Z keyboards Message-ID: <1099667601.24981.81.camel@weka.localdomain> Longest of long shots, but I don't suppose anyone has any spare RML 380Z keyboards that they don't want, do they? No, I didn't think so... Anyone know if the same keyboard unit (repackaged into a different shell or whatever) was ever used with any other machines / terminals of the time? A quick dismantling of mine shows that they were made my Alphameric, and that the PCB looks horribly familiar (as does the name!). cheers, Jules From RMeenaks at OLF.COM Fri Nov 5 09:21:00 2004 From: RMeenaks at OLF.COM (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: GPIB Interface Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B5584780700F6D6@exchange.olf.com> That is not true. There are several Pentium4-based AGP, ISA, PCI based motherboards. I went a different route for my transputers which are ISA-based for the most part (I use an SBC Pentium4 with 8 ISA, and 12 PCI slots). The problem is that they are a bit expensive compared to a regular Pentium4 motherboard. The necessity is due to the tremendous amount of industrial equipment that needs to continue running on an ISA-based machine. Here is one: http://www.cyberresearch.com/store/product/776.2.htm (This one is on the expensive side, but I saw one for about $300)... Cheers, ram -----Original Message----- From: Philip Pemberton [mailto:philpem@dsl.pipex.com] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 2:33 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: GPIB Interface In message <1ACBE318-2E8B-11D9-B151-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> CRC wrote: > For those interested in hooking up GPIB equipment to your VAXen, I ran > across on ePay an IEZ11 SCSI to GPIB interface that was designed for > VMS. > ViewItem&category=39969&item=5136038770&rd=1>. Open VMS has a driver > for the beast albeit retired... Speaking of GPIB... Does anyone have a spare PCI or PCMCIA GPIB interface lying around? I've been looking into upgrading the machine I use for downloading IA files to my logic analyser, but no-one seems to sell PC motherboards that have both an ISA slot and an AGP slot, and take a fairly recent CPU. That and PCI GPIB cards seem to sell on ebay for stupidly high prices - I saw one listed as "Untested, no warranty" go for nearly $300... Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Apple: "I know! Let's call it the Raincoat." (c) 2004 OpenLink Financial Copyright in this message and any attachments remains with us. It is confidential and may be legally privileged. If this message is not intended for you it must not be read, copied or used by you or disclosed to anyone else. Please advise the sender immediately if you have received this message in error. Although this message and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss or damage in any way arising from its use. From RMeenaks at OLF.COM Fri Nov 5 09:22:03 2004 From: RMeenaks at OLF.COM (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: GPIB Interface Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B5584780700F6D7@exchange.olf.com> and another for less than $300... http://www.baber.com/baber/411/soyo_sy-p4i-845pe-isa.htm Cheers, Ram -----Original Message----- From: Philip Pemberton [mailto:philpem@dsl.pipex.com] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 2:33 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: GPIB Interface In message <1ACBE318-2E8B-11D9-B151-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> CRC wrote: > For those interested in hooking up GPIB equipment to your VAXen, I ran > across on ePay an IEZ11 SCSI to GPIB interface that was designed for > VMS. > ViewItem&category=39969&item=5136038770&rd=1>. Open VMS has a driver > for the beast albeit retired... Speaking of GPIB... Does anyone have a spare PCI or PCMCIA GPIB interface lying around? I've been looking into upgrading the machine I use for downloading IA files to my logic analyser, but no-one seems to sell PC motherboards that have both an ISA slot and an AGP slot, and take a fairly recent CPU. That and PCI GPIB cards seem to sell on ebay for stupidly high prices - I saw one listed as "Untested, no warranty" go for nearly $300... Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Apple: "I know! Let's call it the Raincoat." (c) 2004 OpenLink Financial Copyright in this message and any attachments remains with us. It is confidential and may be legally privileged. If this message is not intended for you it must not be read, copied or used by you or disclosed to anyone else. Please advise the sender immediately if you have received this message in error. Although this message and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss or damage in any way arising from its use. From RMeenaks at OLF.COM Fri Nov 5 09:23:03 2004 From: RMeenaks at OLF.COM (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: GPIB Interface Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B5584780700F6D8@exchange.olf.com> Sorry, last one. This was the one I called up upon ($300) http://www.technoland.com/tl_mb8000.htm Ram -----Original Message----- From: Philip Pemberton [mailto:philpem@dsl.pipex.com] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 2:33 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: GPIB Interface In message <1ACBE318-2E8B-11D9-B151-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> CRC wrote: > For those interested in hooking up GPIB equipment to your VAXen, I ran > across on ePay an IEZ11 SCSI to GPIB interface that was designed for > VMS. > ViewItem&category=39969&item=5136038770&rd=1>. Open VMS has a driver > for the beast albeit retired... Speaking of GPIB... Does anyone have a spare PCI or PCMCIA GPIB interface lying around? I've been looking into upgrading the machine I use for downloading IA files to my logic analyser, but no-one seems to sell PC motherboards that have both an ISA slot and an AGP slot, and take a fairly recent CPU. That and PCI GPIB cards seem to sell on ebay for stupidly high prices - I saw one listed as "Untested, no warranty" go for nearly $300... Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Apple: "I know! Let's call it the Raincoat." (c) 2004 OpenLink Financial Copyright in this message and any attachments remains with us. It is confidential and may be legally privileged. If this message is not intended for you it must not be read, copied or used by you or disclosed to anyone else. Please advise the sender immediately if you have received this message in error. Although this message and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss or damage in any way arising from its use. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Nov 5 09:10:55 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: Flexowriter history Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041105101055.009585a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Al pointed me to some information about the Flexowriter on Herb Johnson's website. It seems that the Flexowriters have been around since at least WW II and was orignally made by Commercial Controls. CC was bought out by Frieden sometime doing the 1960s. The original Flexowriter only had a PT reader and punch and no external I/O and was used for generating form letters. Notable, It was used by the US government to write letters to relatives who lost family members in WW-II. Later new models were created by adding interfaces and a 2nd punch and 2nd reader. The two machines that I have appear to be original Commercial Controls FL models without the external I/O interfaces. Oh, I'll throw in a bit more history about these two particular machines. These two originally came from the US Air Force Missile Test Range. Anybody remember what that was? It was the original name for what is now called Kennedy Space Center. Originally just called Cape Canaveral after the geographical feature, it was used as a missile test range starting in the late 1940s and was called US Air Force Missile Test Range. The name was changed to the US Air Force Eastern Test Range about 1959 when NASA choose it to be the site and their manned launches and it was renamed to Cape Kennedy after the death of President Kennedy in 1963. Footnote: Not many people realize it but the Cape Kennedy name was not officially recognized so the land is still Cape Canaveral but the facility was officially named Cape Kennedy in 1963 and is currently named the Kennedy Space Center. Another footnote: For many years I worked for Martin Marietta in Orlando Florida. The Orlando facility was originaly built in 1958. MMC chose Orlando due to it's location close to to the Missile Test Range at Cape Canaveral since they originally planned to buid the Pershing missiles here and test fire them from Cape Canaveral. Herb has a short interview with an X-Flexowriter repair/salesman posted on his site at . For anyone that's interested. Joe From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Nov 5 11:18:29 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: Flexowriter history References: <3.0.6.32.20041105101055.009585a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <16779.46565.602050.527593@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Joe" == Joe R writes: Joe> Al pointed me to some information about the Flexowriter on Herb Joe> Johnson's website. It seems that the Flexowriters have been Joe> around since at least WW II and was orignally made by Commercial Joe> Controls. CC was bought out by Frieden sometime doing the Joe> 1960s. The original Flexowriter only had a PT reader and punch Joe> and no external I/O and was used for generating form Joe> letters. ... Flexowriters have also been used in place of keypunches by organizations that dislike punch cards. My first programming was in Holland, at the Tech U Eindhoven, home of the famous "THE" operating system. (If you've never heard of it, go read "the structure of the THE operating system" -- one of the best, and short, papers in the history of computing.) That was in the lage 1960s, a batch system, primarily using Algol (not Fortran), on a Philips EL-X8 27 bit machine. Program as well as application data entry was primarily by paper tape. So the "keypunch" room was actually a room full of Flexowriters. They had customized keyboards for the Algol character set, and handy features such as "stop tape duplicate on ';' character" so you could edit source tapes efficiently. After working with Flexowriters, exposure to the ASR33 came as a nasty shock -- those are shoddy clunkers compared to the rock solid workmanship of the Flexowriter. paul From cswiger at widomaker.com Fri Nov 5 12:28:51 2004 From: cswiger at widomaker.com (cswiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: demodulating audio cassette wav files Message-ID: <20041105131119.U43162@wilma.widomaker.com> Gang - Any tips/pointers appreciated. I have some cassette tape audio files using 300 baud 8/n/1 format simple fsk 1200/2400Hz I think. Same audio you would find on a cassette tape for program storage except in a wav file. Any easy way to demodulate it back into data? Something like a software (mo)dem that can read the audio file and create the contents? Otherwise I will have to type the program in again (yuck) or read it into the old machine and rig up a serial interface to transfer it to a new PC running a simulator (more fun but would rather just extract it directly). Thanks --Chuck From rcini at optonline.net Fri Nov 5 12:41:55 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: demodulating audio cassette wav files In-Reply-To: <20041105131119.U43162@wilma.widomaker.com> Message-ID: <000201c4c367$213bee00$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Chuck: You may want to look at Jim Battle's SOL emulator project (http://www.thebattles.net) for inspiration. I haven't looked at the code recently, but IIRC it has a software-based method for demodulating WAV files. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of cswiger Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 1:29 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: demodulating audio cassette wav files Gang - Any tips/pointers appreciated. I have some cassette tape audio files using 300 baud 8/n/1 format simple fsk 1200/2400Hz I think. Same audio you would find on a cassette tape for program storage except in a wav file. Any easy way to demodulate it back into data? Something like a software (mo)dem that can read the audio file and create the contents? Otherwise I will have to type the program in again (yuck) or read it into the old machine and rig up a serial interface to transfer it to a new PC running a simulator (more fun but would rather just extract it directly). Thanks --Chuck From coredump at gifford.co.uk Fri Nov 5 12:45:05 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: demodulating audio cassette wav files In-Reply-To: <20041105131119.U43162@wilma.widomaker.com> References: <20041105131119.U43162@wilma.widomaker.com> Message-ID: <418BCA31.3060607@gifford.co.uk> cswiger wrote: > Gang - Any tips/pointers appreciated. I have some cassette tape > audio files using 300 baud 8/n/1 format simple fsk 1200/2400Hz > I think. Same audio you would find on a cassette tape for program > storage except in a wav file. Any easy way to demodulate it back into > data? Something like a software (mo)dem that can read the audio file > and create the contents? If this is a CUTS format tape (aka Kansas City format), then I can suggest this page: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~edsa/ where there's a link to an MS-DOS program to do exactly what you want. I heard from a UK101 user recently who had success with this program by running it under 'dosbox' in Linux. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From cswiger at widomaker.com Fri Nov 5 13:26:35 2004 From: cswiger at widomaker.com (cswiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: demodulating audio cassette wav files In-Reply-To: <000201c4c367$213bee00$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> References: <000201c4c367$213bee00$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Message-ID: <20041105142328.K13549@wilma.widomaker.com> Thanks Rich - I found something there called a "virtual tape drive" but it appears to store and read data from ascii files (just slowed way down to simulate the Real Thing ;). I'm enjoy his site tho - lots of software to look at, which is what my audio file project is all about. --Chuck On Fri, 5 Nov 2004, Richard A. Cini wrote: > Chuck: > > You may want to look at Jim Battle's SOL emulator project > (http://www.thebattles.net) for inspiration. I haven't looked at the code > recently, but IIRC it has a software-based method for demodulating WAV > files. > > Rich > > Rich Cini > Collector of classic computers > Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project > Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > /************************************************************/ > From tomj at wps.com Fri Nov 5 13:51:34 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: Cleaning gungy Flexowriter In-Reply-To: <418B1FB7.90603@internet1.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20041104090220.00a0dd00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <418B1FB7.90603@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Nov 2004, Chad Fernandez wrote: > A word of warning here.... Castrol Super Clean (the original purple degreaser) > can degloss paint and fade some plastics. If an alternative can't be found, > I'd dilute it with water before contact with the machine. A good point; this stuff is HARSH. It's a degreaser, and contains a lot of lye, amongst other things, it eats skin (literally makign you bleed if you leave it on your skin). I didn't say, but it seems obvious, rapidly effective chemistry isn't selective, and cover your ass and other parts liberally with latex gloves (no remarks please). I use two layers with this stuff. And I don't use it on cosmetic items, as I wouldn't use most reactive solvents, though for deeply crapped up stuff, it might be a good last resort. I use "windex" type cleaners on key caps and the like, and Dr. Bronners liquid castille soaps and water on cabinets, or just hand dishwashing liquid and water. Rarely do I need to use petroleum solvents. I'm not totally opposed to them, I keep mineral spirits and even a pint of lacquer thinner around, but that stuff does stink up the world, costs a lot more, is flammable, etc. My wild days of MEK plus toluol in an ultrasonic tank without gloves are looong gone behind me. I hope. > Tom Jennings wrote: > > Used automotive "purple cleaner" and a paint brush to remove > > all the congealed lube and dirt. > From cswiger at widomaker.com Fri Nov 5 13:53:56 2004 From: cswiger at widomaker.com (cswiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: demodulating audio cassette wav files In-Reply-To: <418BCA31.3060607@gifford.co.uk> References: <20041105131119.U43162@wilma.widomaker.com> <418BCA31.3060607@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <20041105143514.V13549@wilma.widomaker.com> On Fri, 5 Nov 2004, John Honniball wrote: > cswiger wrote: > > Gang - Any tips/pointers appreciated. I have some cassette tape > > audio files using 300 baud 8/n/1 format simple fsk 1200/2400Hz > > If this is a CUTS format tape (aka Kansas City format), then I can > suggest this page: > > http://www.alphalink.com.au/~edsa/ > Hi John - Yes, the good news is that's what I'm looking for. The bad news is my tapes are not CUTS format. However, the good news is it comes with sources. The bad news is it's in FORTH! The good news is I like hacking FORTH (Just finishing up a board game that plays in a Sun Open Boot Prom machine w/o Solaris ;) but this is over my head (bad news). Anyway I might have to look at writing something in gcc that can detect tones and demod, make a project out of that. Just checking to see if someone has already invented that particular wheel. Audio is from the Altair 88-ACR. --Chuck From williams.dan at gmail.com Fri Nov 5 14:01:04 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: demodulating audio cassette wav files In-Reply-To: <20041105131119.U43162@wilma.widomaker.com> References: <20041105131119.U43162@wilma.widomaker.com> Message-ID: <26c11a640411051201290ba8c5@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:28:51 -0500 (EST), cswiger wrote: > Gang - Any tips/pointers appreciated. I have some cassette tape > audio files using 300 baud 8/n/1 format simple fsk 1200/2400Hz > I think. Same audio you would find on a cassette tape for program > storage except in a wav file. Any easy way to demodulate it back into > data? Something like a software (mo)dem that can read the audio file > and create the contents? > > Otherwise I will have to type the program in again (yuck) or > read it into the old machine and rig up a serial interface > to transfer it to a new PC running a simulator (more fun but > would rather just extract it directly). > > Thanks > > --Chuck > > What machine is it for, I know of a few programs that can do this but they are machine specific. Is there not an emulator which will except a wav or converted file ? Dan From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Nov 5 14:15:23 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:30 2005 Subject: Cleaning gungy Flexowriter References: <3.0.6.32.20041104090220.00a0dd00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <418B1FB7.90603@internet1.net> Message-ID: <16779.57179.62794.104878@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Jennings writes: Tom> On Fri, 5 Nov 2004, Chad Fernandez wrote: >> A word of warning here.... Castrol Super Clean (the original >> purple degreaser) can degloss paint and fade some plastics. If an >> alternative can't be found, I'd dilute it with water before >> contact with the machine. Tom> A good point; this stuff is HARSH. It's a degreaser, and Tom> contains a lot of lye, amongst other things, it eats skin Tom> (literally makign you bleed if you leave it on your skin). I Tom> didn't say, but it seems obvious, rapidly effective chemistry Tom> isn't selective, and cover your ass and other parts liberally Tom> with latex gloves (no remarks please). I use two layers with Tom> this stuff. If you meant "latex" literally, that may be problematic. Latex rubber dissolves in lots of things. Vinyl may be better. For anything as nasty as lye, I'd go for nothing less than sturdy neoprene gloves. paul From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Nov 5 14:32:13 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:31 2005 Subject: Canon Cat Message-ID: <200411052032.MAA24554@clulw009.amd.com> Hi For those that have a Canon Cat but lack the documents, Jef Raskin has put up a computer readable form of the reference manual at: http://humane.sourceforge.net/published/cat_ref.html and Canon Cat Manual at: http://humane.sourceforge.net/published/cat_manual.html You might check out some of the rest of his site as well. He is an interesting person. Dwight From tomj at wps.com Fri Nov 5 14:50:37 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:31 2005 Subject: HP scanner: doubly on-topic! Message-ID: I just acquired an old (on-topic)(I think) HP 9195A flatbed scanner... because it has an ADF (Automatic Document Feed). Likely it's only 300dpi monochrome, but I want it only for mass-scanning of (on-topic) crufty docs. (I have a nice, newish flatbed 2**20 color, 2petapixel/inch scanner I paid nearly $20 for, 15 minutes ago, but it requires a hairy meat arm to feed it sheets.) I found & downloaded the sj121en1.exe driver, which is the most-recent version, for Win95. I don't have a Win95 machine (I actually own zero win/dos computers) but bought a loaded Dell P120 for such things. My questions are all obvious: * has anyone used this scanner on linux? (parallel interface, mind you) * does it work under wine, vmware, dosemu? * Will it work under WinXP? Win98? DOS? I do have legit Win95 CDRs to install, as a desparate last resort. Don't make me install it please! From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri Nov 5 15:00:16 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:31 2005 Subject: HP scanner: doubly on-topic! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200411051600.16915.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Friday 05 November 2004 15:50, Tom Jennings wrote: > I just acquired an old (on-topic)(I think) HP 9195A > flatbed scanner... because it has an ADF (Automatic Document > Feed). Likely it's only 300dpi monochrome, but I want it only > for mass-scanning of (on-topic) crufty docs. (I have a nice, > newish flatbed 2**20 color, 2petapixel/inch scanner I paid > nearly $20 for, 15 minutes ago, but it requires a hairy meat > arm to feed it sheets.) > > I found & downloaded the sj121en1.exe driver, which is the > most-recent version, for Win95. I don't have a Win95 machine > (I actually own zero win/dos computers) but bought a loaded > Dell P120 for such things. > > My questions are all obvious: > > * has anyone used this scanner on linux? (parallel interface, mind > you) * does it work under wine, vmware, dosemu? > * Will it work under WinXP? Win98? DOS? I've used other HP scanners on Linux, but they were all SCSI interface ones. Check out SANE at http://www.sane-project.org/. They've got a list of supported scanners. As well, you'll need to know what the "real" name, not HP model #, of your scanner is (eg. ScanJet 4c) in order to find it on the list. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Nov 5 15:04:08 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:31 2005 Subject: HP scanner: doubly on-topic! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Nov 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > * has anyone used this scanner on linux? (parallel interface, mind you) > * does it work under wine, vmware, dosemu? > * Will it work under WinXP? Win98? DOS? > > I do have legit Win95 CDRs to install, as a desparate last > resort. Don't make me install it please! These questions are probably answered a lot faster on the various newsgroups and support platforms for those systems... :) --f From tomj at wps.com Fri Nov 5 15:17:40 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:31 2005 Subject: HP scanner: doubly on-topic! In-Reply-To: <200411051600.16915.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200411051600.16915.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Nov 2004, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I've used other HP scanners on Linux, but they were all SCSI interface > ones. Check out SANE at http://www.sane-project.org/. They've got a > list of supported scanners. As well, you'll need to know what the > "real" name, not HP model #, of your scanner is (eg. ScanJet 4c) in > order to find it on the list. What a dummy I am. I know about the SANE project, and use it. For some reason I had lodged in my brain I wouldn't find parport devices in ther ebut of couse SANE doesn't care about that. I'll have to wait until I get home to find the model name unless I can google it. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri Nov 5 16:41:36 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:31 2005 Subject: demodulating audio cassette wav files In-Reply-To: <20041105131119.U43162@wilma.widomaker.com> References: <20041105131119.U43162@wilma.widomaker.com> Message-ID: <200411052244.RAA13577@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I have some cassette tape audio files using 300 baud 8/n/1 format > simple fsk 1200/2400Hz I think. Same audio you would find on a > cassette tape for program storage except in a wav file. Any easy way > to demodulate it back into data? Sounds as though it should be simple enough, unless the digitization sample rate is really marginal (8KHz would be pushing it, I'd say). If you don't mind sending me a fragment of the digitized audio, I can have a stab at it. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Nov 5 17:21:14 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:32 2005 Subject: Cleaning gungy Flexowriter In-Reply-To: References: <418B1FB7.90603@internet1.net> <3.0.6.32.20041104090220.00a0dd00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <418B1FB7.90603@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041105182114.007c8c00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:51 AM 11/5/04 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 5 Nov 2004, Chad Fernandez wrote: > >> A word of warning here.... Castrol Super Clean (the original purple degreaser) >> can degloss paint and fade some plastics. If an alternative can't be found, >> I'd dilute it with water before contact with the machine. > >A good point; this stuff is HARSH. It's a degreaser, and >contains a lot of lye, amongst other things, Ug. Nasty stuff. Probably about the same as oven cleaners, they're lye based. I won't try it on a Flexowriter. They have a LOT of aluminium parts. For the ones that aren't aware of it, lye WILL distroy aluminium. lye + aluminium + water = hydrogen gas + sodium aluminate. it eats skin >(literally makign you bleed if you leave it on your skin). I >didn't say, but it seems obvious, rapidly effective chemistry >isn't selective, and cover your ass and other parts liberally >with latex gloves (no remarks please). I use two layers with >this stuff. >I use "windex" type cleaners on key caps and the like, and >Dr. Bronners liquid castille soaps and water on cabinets, >or just hand dishwashing liquid and water. Windex just isn't what it used to be. It used be a great cleaner but any more it acts like there's nothing in it but water. Joe From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Nov 5 12:51:42 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:32 2005 Subject: Cleaning gungy Flexowriter In-Reply-To: <16779.57179.62794.104878@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20041105234459.KBV25820.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@wizard> > >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Jennings writes: > > Tom> On Fri, 5 Nov 2004, Chad Fernandez wrote: > >> A word of warning here.... Castrol Super Clean (the original > >> purple degreaser) can degloss paint and fade some plastics. If an > >> alternative can't be found, I'd dilute it with water before > >> contact with the machine. > > Tom> A good point; this stuff is HARSH. It's a degreaser, and > Tom> contains a lot of lye, amongst other things, it eats skin > Tom> (literally makign you bleed if you leave it on your skin). I > Tom> didn't say, but it seems obvious, rapidly effective chemistry > Tom> isn't selective, and cover your ass and other parts liberally > Tom> with latex gloves (no remarks please). I use two layers with > Tom> this stuff. > > If you meant "latex" literally, that may be problematic. Latex rubber > dissolves in lots of things. Vinyl may be better. For anything as > nasty as lye, I'd go for nothing less than sturdy neoprene gloves. > > paul I stopped using that purple stuff, it is POWERFUL but this will corrode non-ferrous stuff like aluminum alloy, zinc alloy (potmetal) etc. Don't like it but it cuts through grease junk like no tomorrow. So I went back to old fashioned degreaser that was common back then that smelled like keno (pinkish) Easy on stuff and still cut through grease and oily stuff. I still wear nitrile gloves for any cleanings. Cheers, Wizard From allain at panix.com Fri Nov 5 20:25:24 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:32 2005 Subject: Cleaning gungy Flexowriter References: <20041105234459.KBV25820.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@wizard> Message-ID: <083501c4c3a7$e00fc0a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >> contains a lot of lye, amongst other things, >> it eats skin (literally makign you bleed > ...it is POWERFUL but this will corrode... etc. For petroleum based gunk, there's probably nothing gentler than lighter fluid. I have tried two different batches of "Goo-gone" and have never seen it prove its value, IE it seemed very lame. My basic toolkit: Windex, Q-Tips, Lighter fluid, paper towels, Ajax, knowledge, time. John A. please don't light it. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Nov 5 21:10:20 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:32 2005 Subject: Flexowriter: Round 2! Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041105221020.009604b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Today I started working on the 2nd Flexowriter. First I should point out that this is a newer machine than the first one. This one has an ~13,500 serial number and the first one has an ~4,000 serial number. This is what it looked like to begin with; front and back and right hand side . At least the keyboard hasn't been smashed in this one but you can tell that it hasn't been used in a LONG time by the mildew on the keys. The keys are supposed to be black and not white! The power cords of both machines had been wrapped around the carriage for so long that they had taken a permanent set and they broke when I tried to unwrap them! The first thing that you notice about this machine is that all the removeable covers are dark blue instead of brown. I've been told that sometime in the 60s they changed the machine color from brown to blue. Perhaps this is a transistion model or maybe somebody just mixed up the parts during a repair or modification. This is the same model as the first one but it's very different. For one thing it has a transformer in it . It also has a 2nd circuit board lurking behind the transformer and the fuse holders are very different from the first machine. But in the back it's even more changed. There are a lot more relays in it and the relays have a lot more contacts. . The blue arrows show all the new relays and the red arrow shows a stepping relay that has also been added to this machine. This appears to be a factory modification since all the brackets, wiring, etc fit perfectly. However all the added parts use wire with grey plastic insulation instead of the various colored cloth covered wire used originaly so this appears to have been done long after the machine was originally built. This mod also uses a different type connector (white arrow). In addition to the added relays, the encoder has three more switch levers added (red arrows) to the original seven levers (blue arrows. And of course there are three added sets of switch contacts (red arrows) on the back of the plate that hold the original seven sets (blue arrows) . All of the added electrical parts use the same grey plastic insulated wires. Another change that I spotted was the use of round rubber feet with studs sticking out of the top and bottom of it (the one in the picture is broken). The top stud screws into the machine to mount the foot but I don't know for sure what the bottom stud was supposed to screw into.* The first machine used square rubber feet that were obviously make to sit on a flat surface such as a table top. Both of these machines were built by Commercial Controls Corporation prior to it being taken over by Frieden in the early '60s. . FWIW Here is also a picture of the PT punch . It's a modular design and I had to take it off to remove the encoder. *When I was a kid my dad had several teletype machines. A year of two ago he told me about another machine that he used to have that printed form letters from a paper tape. He said that it stopped printing at certain points and you could manually type in people's names, addresses, etc. He got rid of the machine many years ago and didn't remember the name on it. Today I called him and asked him about it and asked if it was a Fleowriter and he said that it was. He said that he still has a few accessories for it including a bit bucket and a Frieden marked dust cover. He also said that his Flexowriter sat on it's own stand. I suppose that that is what the rubber feet with studs on this machine are intended for. As I mentioned. I worked on the second machine today. I found that there's something locking up the carriage and preventing it from going back to the left. The release buttons have no effect even though all the linkage is free and moves like it should. The problem seems to be in something UNDER the carriage. I finally found a escapement behind the carriage and I pryed over the lever that prevents it from turning backwards and I was able to move the carriage to the left. I need to find out more about the escapement and what how it's supposed to work. The shafts in the encoder that rotate and move the switch levers were also rusted up. I had to take the encover out and take it apart and clean the pivots before it worked. Boy getting it all back together was fun! NOT! Joe From esharpe at uswest.net Fri Nov 5 23:42:26 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:32 2005 Subject: Flexowriter history References: <3.0.6.32.20041105101055.009585a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000c01c4c3c3$660d4040$739f6d44@SONYDIGITALED> Joe, we have one here that has no i/o... the type is script... although from GE computer Department, it was probably used in some office for typing form letters.... ed sharpe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: ; Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 8:10 AM Subject: Flexowriter history > Al pointed me to some information about the Flexowriter on Herb Johnson's > website. It seems that the Flexowriters have been around since at least WW > II and was orignally made by Commercial Controls. CC was bought out by > Frieden sometime doing the 1960s. The original Flexowriter only had a PT > reader and punch and no external I/O and was used for generating form > letters. Notable, It was used by the US government to write letters to > relatives who lost family members in WW-II. Later new models were created > by adding interfaces and a 2nd punch and 2nd reader. The two machines that > I have appear to be original Commercial Controls FL models without the > external I/O interfaces. Oh, I'll throw in a bit more history about these > two particular machines. These two originally came from the US Air Force > Missile Test Range. Anybody remember what that was? It was the original > name for what is now called Kennedy Space Center. Originally just called > Cape Canaveral after the geographical feature, it was used as a missile > test range starting in the late 1940s and was called US Air Force Missile > Test Range. The name was changed to the US Air Force Eastern Test Range > about 1959 when NASA choose it to be the site and their manned launches > and > it was renamed to Cape Kennedy after the death of President Kennedy in > 1963. Footnote: Not many people realize it but the Cape Kennedy name was > not officially recognized so the land is still Cape Canaveral but the > facility was officially named Cape Kennedy in 1963 and is currently named > the Kennedy Space Center. Another footnote: For many years I worked for > Martin Marietta in Orlando Florida. The Orlando facility was originaly > built in 1958. MMC chose Orlando due to it's location close to to the > Missile Test Range at Cape Canaveral since they originally planned to buid > the Pershing missiles here and test fire them from Cape Canaveral. > > Herb has a short interview with an X-Flexowriter repair/salesman posted > on his site at . For anyone that's > interested. > > Joe > > From rickb at bensene.com Fri Nov 5 23:53:22 2004 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Edusystem 25 BASIC source In-Reply-To: <20041103212046.D3CA842D2@spies.com> Message-ID: <20041106055322.0356B2C002@pail.bensene.com> Problem is that part of this is corrupted. After the label FOGO2, go down 22 lines, and there's a bunch of gibberish. I've tried to reconstruct the damaged source from a binary version that I found, but when I assemble it (on my 8/E as well as on simh), the resulting code runs for the most part, but calculations generate incorrect results. The section of code that is corrupted is part of the floating point math routines. The project to get this figured out is on hold while our new home is being built, and all of the computer stuff is in storage. So close -- yet so far. Rick Bensene > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 1:21 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Edusystem 25 BASIC source > > > I remembered that Jeff Russ had the source for this up at > indiana.edu so I dug around and put the mirror that I had > made of his site several years ago. The EDU25 BASIC src can > be found at: > > http://www.bitsavers.org/bits/DEC/pdp8/papertapeImages/russ.uc > s.indiana.edu/Langs/Edu25Basic/Ascii/ > > From fernande at internet1.net Sat Nov 6 00:21:22 2004 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Cleaning gungy Flexowriter In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20041104090220.00a0dd00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <418B1FB7.90603@internet1.net> Message-ID: <418C6D62.9010209@internet1.net> Tom Jennings wrote: > A good point; this stuff is HARSH. It's a degreaser, and > contains a lot of lye, amongst other things, it eats skin > (literally makign you bleed if you leave it on your skin). Are you sure about the lye? I've used lye before, and didn't think that it was like Castol Super Clean at all. I suppose the other ingredients and fragrances may be the differences, though. I used to use Castrol SC with my bare hands. I stopped, though. I figured it probably wasn't good in the long term, and I got tired of my hands drying out so bad. Someone else mentioned what it can do to aluminum..... I'd forgotten about that. It's actually been quite some time since I've used the stuff. > > Rarely do I need to use petroleum solvents. I'm not totally > opposed to them, I keep mineral spirits and even a pint of > lacquer thinner around, but that stuff does stink up the world, > costs a lot more, is flammable, etc. My wild days of MEK plus > toluol in an ultrasonic tank without gloves are looong gone > behind me. I hope. I like to keep 3M's adhesive remover around. I buy it at the local body shop supply store. I don't think I've ever had it harm the surface that I was working with. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From dave04a at dunfield.com Sat Nov 6 04:04:59 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: LF: Obsorne-1 video jumper plug Message-ID: <20041106100459.MZIU14765.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Recently picked up an Osborne-1 which is missing it's video jumper plug - this is the small block to the right of the keyboard connector which enables the internal monitor, and is removed to connect an external monitor. I know I can make one - but I thought I'd check here to see if anyone has a "parts" or beyond-repair Osborne that might have a spare of the original jumper block. This is an Osborne-1A - the second edition, however I believe the jumper block is the same on both versions. Thanks, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Sat Nov 6 08:53:40 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Kickass "terminal" find: Message-ID: <1099752820.30562.9.camel@fortran> Allright, my grandma called me telling me she saw something I might like at a fleemarket. Thinking it would probably a typewriter or an SVGA screen, I still wanted to stop by the fleemarket. I was wrong. It's a big, blue, keyboard-folds-down Atlantic Research Corporation Interview Comstate I. This is one of the coolest pieces of equipment I've ever seen. Anyways, it's got a program bank. Are there any other programs availible out there? It can function as a 1200bps terminal, and it does. Anyone know anything about it? TIA, -- Tore S Bekkedal From jrice54 at vzavenue.net Sat Nov 6 11:37:17 2004 From: jrice54 at vzavenue.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Xerox 6060 Message-ID: <418D0BCD.3020702@vzavenue.net> Any one know anything about a Xerox 6060. I've got a free one to pickup tomorrow and I'm wondering what it is and is it worth the effort. It's set up with a 10/10 Bernoulli box too. There doesn't seem to be much on Google about it as Xerox also uses 6060 as the model number of a large digital printing press. James -- www.blackcube.org The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers From charlesb at otcgaming.net Sat Nov 6 12:48:19 2004 From: charlesb at otcgaming.net (charlesb@otcgaming.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Xerox 6060 References: <418D0BCD.3020702@vzavenue.net> Message-ID: <001301c4c431$30a1acc0$7dc3033e@gamemachine> lol, just hope it's not a big digital printing press you picking up in a miniata :D ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Rice" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 5:37 PM Subject: Xerox 6060 > Any one know anything about a Xerox 6060. I've got a free one to pickup > tomorrow and I'm wondering what it is and is it worth the effort. It's > set up with a 10/10 Bernoulli box too. There doesn't seem to be much on > Google about it as Xerox also uses 6060 as the model number of a large > digital printing press. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 01/11/2004 From birs23 at zeelandnet.nl Sat Nov 6 12:55:41 2004 From: birs23 at zeelandnet.nl (birs23@zeelandnet.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Xerox 6060 In-Reply-To: <418D0BCD.3020702@vzavenue.net> References: <418D0BCD.3020702@vzavenue.net> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.0.20041106195454.028e4f38@mail.zeelandnet.nl> This person has one : http://www.minotaurz.com/compmuse/museum/directory.html Quote from the site "Xerox 6060 (1984), very sturdy DOS machine in an attempt to play catchup after the marketing failure of the 8010 Star " Stefan At 18:37 6-11-2004, you wrote: >Any one know anything about a Xerox 6060. I've got a free one to pickup >tomorrow and I'm wondering what it is and is it worth the effort. It's >set up with a 10/10 Bernoulli box too. There doesn't seem to be much on >Google about it as Xerox also uses 6060 as the model number of a large >digital printing press. > >James > > >-- >www.blackcube.org The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers > From jrice54 at vzavenue.net Sat Nov 6 12:58:55 2004 From: jrice54 at vzavenue.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Xerox 6060 In-Reply-To: <001301c4c431$30a1acc0$7dc3033e@gamemachine> References: <418D0BCD.3020702@vzavenue.net> <001301c4c431$30a1acc0$7dc3033e@gamemachine> Message-ID: <418D1EEF.9070209@vzavenue.net> I really wish it would be, those things sell on the used market for over a hundred grand. They use an Ultrasparc workstation as a manager's console. charlesb@otcgaming.net wrote: > lol, just hope it's not a big digital printing press you picking up in > a miniata :D > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Rice" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 5:37 PM > Subject: Xerox 6060 > > >> Any one know anything about a Xerox 6060. I've got a free one to >> pickup tomorrow and I'm wondering what it is and is it worth the >> effort. It's set up with a 10/10 Bernoulli box too. There doesn't >> seem to be much on Google about it as Xerox also uses 6060 as the >> model number of a large digital printing press. > > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 01/11/2004 > -- www.blackcube.org The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers From at258 at osfn.org Sat Nov 6 13:00:21 2004 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Xerox 6060 In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.0.20041106195454.028e4f38@mail.zeelandnet.nl> Message-ID: It's a nice little Xerox badged Olivetti. 8088, I think. About the same as an AT&T 6300. On Sat, 6 Nov 2004 birs23@zeelandnet.nl wrote: > This person has one : http://www.minotaurz.com/compmuse/museum/directory.html > > Quote from the site "Xerox 6060 (1984), very sturdy DOS machine in an > attempt to play catchup after the marketing failure of the 8010 Star " > > Stefan > > At 18:37 6-11-2004, you wrote: > >Any one know anything about a Xerox 6060. I've got a free one to pickup > >tomorrow and I'm wondering what it is and is it worth the effort. It's > >set up with a 10/10 Bernoulli box too. There doesn't seem to be much on > >Google about it as Xerox also uses 6060 as the model number of a large > >digital printing press. > > > >James > > > > > >-- > >www.blackcube.org The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers > > > > -- M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From birs23 at zeelandnet.nl Sat Nov 6 13:02:25 2004 From: birs23 at zeelandnet.nl (birs23@zeelandnet.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Xerox 6060 In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.0.20041106195454.028e4f38@mail.zeelandnet.nl> References: <418D0BCD.3020702@vzavenue.net> <6.1.0.6.0.20041106195454.028e4f38@mail.zeelandnet.nl> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.0.20041106200102.028e7c60@mail.zeelandnet.nl> Ow and if someone has the BYTE September 1986 Issue, it should have a review in it of the Xerox 6060. Stefan At 19:55 6-11-2004, you wrote: >This person has one : http://www.minotaurz.com/compmuse/museum/directory.html > >Quote from the site "Xerox 6060 (1984), very sturdy DOS machine in an >attempt to play catchup after the marketing failure of the 8010 Star " > >Stefan > >At 18:37 6-11-2004, you wrote: >>Any one know anything about a Xerox 6060. I've got a free one to pickup >>tomorrow and I'm wondering what it is and is it worth the effort. It's >>set up with a 10/10 Bernoulli box too. There doesn't seem to be much on >>Google about it as Xerox also uses 6060 as the model number of a large >>digital printing press. >> >>James >> >> >>-- >>www.blackcube.org The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers From jrice54 at vzavenue.net Sat Nov 6 13:01:52 2004 From: jrice54 at vzavenue.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Xerox 6060 In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.0.20041106195454.028e4f38@mail.zeelandnet.nl> References: <418D0BCD.3020702@vzavenue.net> <6.1.0.6.0.20041106195454.028e4f38@mail.zeelandnet.nl> Message-ID: <418D1FA0.1000603@vzavenue.net> Thanks fot the link. I've been on his site before, I just don't remember the Xerox. I'll go ahead and keep it. I only have a few machines from the DOS days. James birs23@zeelandnet.nl wrote: > This person has one : > http://www.minotaurz.com/compmuse/museum/directory.html > > Quote from the site "Xerox 6060 (1984), very sturdy DOS machine in an > attempt to play catchup after the marketing failure of the 8010 Star " > > Stefan > > At 18:37 6-11-2004, you wrote: > >> Any one know anything about a Xerox 6060. I've got a free one to >> pickup tomorrow and I'm wondering what it is and is it worth the >> effort. It's set up with a 10/10 Bernoulli box too. There doesn't >> seem to be much on Google about it as Xerox also uses 6060 as the >> model number of a large digital printing press. >> >> James >> >> >> -- >> www.blackcube.org The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned >> Computers >> > > -- www.blackcube.org The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers From birs23 at zeelandnet.nl Sat Nov 6 13:07:26 2004 From: birs23 at zeelandnet.nl (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Xerox 6060 In-Reply-To: References: <6.1.0.6.0.20041106195454.028e4f38@mail.zeelandnet.nl> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.0.20041106200623.028e4470@mail.zeelandnet.nl> It seems to be the same as an Olivetti M24 I just read on the net. (Perhaps I should put all my finds together in one mail next time....) Stefan At 20:00 6-11-2004, you wrote: >It's a nice little Xerox badged Olivetti. 8088, I think. About the same >as an AT&T 6300. > >On Sat, 6 Nov 2004 birs23@zeelandnet.nl wrote: > > > This person has one : > http://www.minotaurz.com/compmuse/museum/directory.html > > > > Quote from the site "Xerox 6060 (1984), very sturdy DOS machine in an > > attempt to play catchup after the marketing failure of the 8010 Star " > > > > Stefan > > > > At 18:37 6-11-2004, you wrote: > > >Any one know anything about a Xerox 6060. I've got a free one to pickup > > >tomorrow and I'm wondering what it is and is it worth the effort. It's > > >set up with a 10/10 Bernoulli box too. There doesn't seem to be much on > > >Google about it as Xerox also uses 6060 as the model number of a large > > >digital printing press. > > > > > >James > > > > > > > > >-- > > >www.blackcube.org The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers > > > > > > > > >-- >M. K. Peirce > >Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. >Shady Lea, Rhode Island > >"Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid ------------------------------------------------------- http://www.oldcomputercollection.com From dave04a at dunfield.com Sat Nov 6 13:39:32 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Osborne monitor service information ? Message-ID: <20041106193931.WAQU14765.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Hi Guys, I have an Osborne-1 with a bad monitor - I have the technical manual, which gives schematics for the main logic board and the disk board, but NOT the monitor. The monitor is a: Zenith model DS5NF3 Symptoms are: Its Powered through a single +12v line on the connector, filiment lights, which suggests power is present. Horizontal drive, vertical drive and video signals are all present on the monitor connector. No light at all, no "buzz" typical of flyback transformer. Looks like horizontal/high-voltage circuit is dead. Unfortunately I have no schematic - At least the only IC on the board is a 555 - hopefully no unobtainium used in this one (unless it's the flyback :-( anyone got diagrams or other service information on a "Zenith DS5NF3" monitor. Suggestions/debug hints welcome - I'm guessing horizontal output transistor or flyback ... [and before anyone asks - yes, this is the one which was missing it's monitor plug, however I have borrowed the plug from a working machine and verified that the signals are getting to the monitor] Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From bpope at wordstock.com Sat Nov 6 13:39:24 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Replacing an A2000 battery Message-ID: <200411061939.OAA03447@wordstock.com> I am currently in the process of replacing my Amiga 2000's battery... On the one I was finally able to remove there *seems* to be some damage to the circuit board that was underneath and nearing the 68000. Instead of the circuits being a nice green colour, it is now black. Is there any way to tell if this is only a colour change? Also, it looks like some of the copper has been eaten away around where the negative part of the battery was soldered to the motherboard. I have cleaned all of the white crap off with vinegar and a toothbrush. I then used "Precision Electronics Cleaner" from RS which is _supposed_ to leave no residue. Also, how are the solder tabs affixed to the battery? The replacement batteries I got don't have any. Cheers, Bryan Pope From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Nov 6 13:55:46 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Replacing an A2000 battery In-Reply-To: <200411061939.OAA03447@wordstock.com> References: <200411061939.OAA03447@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <1546.65.123.179.116.1099770946.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> > > > I am currently in the process of replacing my Amiga 2000's battery... On > the > one I was finally able to remove there *seems* to be some damage to the > circuit board that was underneath and nearing the 68000. Instead of the > circuits being a nice green colour, it is now black. Is there any way to > tell if this is only a colour change? Also, it looks like some of the > copper has been eaten away around where the negative part of the battery > was soldered to the motherboard. sounds like the battery acid leaked out and started eating away. Only way to know if damage has been done is to see if the board still works (boots) or not. You can't really clean it off without doing some damage to the traces. > > I have cleaned all of the white crap off with vinegar and a toothbrush. I > then used "Precision Electronics Cleaner" from RS which is _supposed_ to > leave no residue. > > Also, how are the solder tabs affixed to the battery? The replacement > batteries I got don't have any. The tabe are usually spot welded on. Most cells are designed to go into some sort of holder that has contacts. You might have to rig up a battery with pigtail leads and attach that to the mobo, with the battery stuck on somewhere with RTV or other adhesive. Gary Hildebrand From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Nov 6 14:20:11 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Replacing an A2000 battery References: <200411061939.OAA03447@wordstock.com> <1546.65.123.179.116.1099770946.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: <007401c4c43e$04e72490$702d1941@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 2:55 PM Subject: Re: Replacing an A2000 battery > > > > > > I am currently in the process of replacing my Amiga 2000's battery... On > > the > > one I was finally able to remove there *seems* to be some damage to the > > circuit board that was underneath and nearing the 68000. Instead of the > > circuits being a nice green colour, it is now black. Is there any way to > > tell if this is only a colour change? Also, it looks like some of the > > copper has been eaten away around where the negative part of the battery > > was soldered to the motherboard. > > > sounds like the battery acid leaked out and started eating away. Only way > to know if damage has been done is to see if the board still works (boots) > or not. You can't really clean it off without doing some damage to the > traces. > > > > I have cleaned all of the white crap off with vinegar and a toothbrush. I > > then used "Precision Electronics Cleaner" from RS which is _supposed_ to > > leave no residue. > > > > Also, how are the solder tabs affixed to the battery? The replacement > > batteries I got don't have any. > > The tabe are usually spot welded on. Most cells are designed to go into > some sort of holder that has contacts. You might have to rig up a battery > with pigtail leads and attach that to the mobo, with the battery stuck on > somewhere with RTV or other adhesive. > > Gary Hildebrand Some people get a common coin type battery and solder a battery holder to where the old one was. Its better to replace the battery with a type that will not leak or you will have to do this again in 5-10 years. I just removed the battery in my A2000 and have yet to put another in since I don't care about the time function. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Nov 6 16:44:05 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Flexowriter: Round 2! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041105221020.009604b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041105221020.009604b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1099781045.26811.58.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-11-05 at 22:10 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > Today I started working on the 2nd Flexowriter. First I should point > out that this is a newer machine than the first one. This one has an > ~13,500 serial number and the first one has an ~4,000 serial number. I *think* our one that I want to try and get running had a serial up in the 20000 range; it looks far more like this second one of yours in build (than the first) only with a more modern feel. Watch the little tape advance knobs on the left hand side; ours are plastic with a small lip to them and both have been damaged (either from something slamming into them or from someone tipping the machine over onto that end, where the knobs would take all the weight of the machine). Easy to catch them on something when moving the machine around at any rate. > machine is that all the removeable covers are dark blue instead of brown. ours is a mixture of white and mid-blue - looks rather smart :) As said in a private email, 4-digit model number starting with a 2, but I can't remember the rest :/ cheers Jules From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 6 16:49:28 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Replacing an A2000 battery In-Reply-To: <200411061939.OAA03447@wordstock.com> from "Bryan Pope" at Nov 6, 4 02:39:24 pm Message-ID: > > Also, how are the solder tabs affixed to the battery? The replacement > batteries I got don't have any. They're normally spot-welded on. You can get batteries with the tabs already fitted in most cases. -tony From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Nov 6 16:51:05 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Replacing an A2000 battery In-Reply-To: <200411061939.OAA03447@wordstock.com> References: <200411061939.OAA03447@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <418D5559.3090100@mdrconsult.com> Bryan Pope wrote: > Also, how are the solder tabs affixed to the battery? The replacement > batteries I got don't have any. http://www.compuquick-amigadirect.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?cart_id=5377926_9322&keywords=batteries or http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4598&item=5111201669 This guy's not the fastest shipper on eBay, but his stuff is always as represented. There are a couple of articles on aminet describing the LiIon conversion, which would be my choice of repair options. Doc From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 6 16:54:52 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Osborne monitor service information ? In-Reply-To: <20041106193931.WAQU14765.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> from "Dave Dunfield" at Nov 6, 4 02:39:32 pm Message-ID: > > Hi Guys, > > I have an Osborne-1 with a bad monitor - I have the technical > manual, which gives schematics for the main logic board and > the disk board, but NOT the monitor. > > The monitor is a: Zenith model DS5NF3 I don't recognise the number, but maybe the IBM Portable PC monitor is similar in design (it is a Zenith chassis) > > Symptoms are: > > Its Powered through a single +12v line on the connector, > filiment lights, which suggests power is present. I would guess this CRT has a 12V (or close) heater (most 7 pin ones do) that runs directly off the power input line (maybe through a resistor, but nothing more). > > Horizontal drive, vertical drive and video signals are all > present on the monitor connector. > > No light at all, no "buzz" typical of flyback transformer. > Looks like horizontal/high-voltage circuit is dead. > > Unfortunately I have no schematic - At least the only IC on > the board is a 555 - hopefully no unobtainium used in this > one (unless it's the flyback :-( I would start by tracing the horizontal drive signal. My guess (without seeing it) is that the 555 is part of the vertical circuit and can be ignored for the moment. You may find the horizontal drive signal goes to the base of the drive transsitor, transformer coupled to the base of the horizontal output transistor, thence to the flyback. I ahve had the horizontal drive transformer go open-circuit in a Zenith monitor. It's not hard to rewind, though. > > anyone got diagrams or other service information on a > "Zenith DS5NF3" monitor. > > Suggestions/debug hints welcome - I'm guessing horizontal > output transistor or flyback ... You should be able to trst the former fairly easily. Of course if it's failed, there may well be other problems that killed it. -tony From dave04a at dunfield.com Sat Nov 6 18:39:06 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Osborne monitor service information ? Message-ID: <20041107003905.QXR14765.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Hi Tony, >I would start by tracing the horizontal drive signal. My guess (without >seeing it) is that the 555 is part of the vertical circuit and can be >ignored for the moment. You may find the horizontal drive signal goes to >the base of the drive transsitor, transformer coupled to the base of the >horizontal output transistor, thence to the flyback. Thats pretty much exactly the circuit --- This monitor is not designed to be very easy to work on - there's a metal plate right under the circuit board, and the other side of the board is right up against the neck of the CRT - makes it pretty hard to take measurements in circuit. This afternoon, I pulled it all apart, checked continuity through the flyback, and pulled the horizontal drive transistor and checked it - it appeared to still be a transistor (correct "diode" junctions from both B-C and B-E). So - I put it back together, planning to leave it for another day - on a whim I tried it, and it worked! - And I used it for a couple of hours as I checked out the rest of the machine with no further problems. I still have no idea what the problem was - perhaps a bad contact in one of the connectors, although I wiggled and jiggled everthing and was unable to deter the monitor for working perfectly after I put it back together. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From dave04a at dunfield.com Sat Nov 6 18:49:14 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Another Osborne needing TLC Message-ID: <20041107004913.UNS14765.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> After the 1A monitor started working, I turned my attention to another Osborne in need of attention. This is an Osborne-1 - the older one in a "tan" colored case - not a 1A. This machine "sort of" works - it powers up, beeps, and displays the "box" on the screen, along with the "Insert disk in drive A and press RETURN" message. At this point however, it seems to keep restarting - the screen continually clears and redraws the box/message, which creates a flickering effect. It does not beep as it restarts - experimentation shows that the beep is enabled at power-up and gets turned OFF by the firmware as part of the init sequence - it appears the the firmware does not actually turn the beeper ON at startup, just OFF, so it only beeps after the first power-on (?) Took it apart and checked all contacts/connections/sockets for corrosion, reseated everything and still the same operation. A couple of questions: 1) This machines has a large board on top of the mainboard - this board plugs into the Z80 socket (the Z80 moves to the top board), as well as a ROM socket and the monitor connector - there is also a bunch of "flying leads" which connect to various points on the mainboard and attach to a socket/header on the top board... Can anyone tell me what this board is? Is it "normal" on an Osborne-1? Neither of my 1A's have this board, and the mainboard appears to be the same... Is it perhaps an upgrade of some kind? 2) Has anyone disassembled or otherwise obtained source code to the Osborne boot ROM - I would like to try and figure out how far the machine is getting, and what it is doing when it restarts. 3) Has anyone seen this behaviour in an Osborne before? Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From dave04a at dunfield.com Sat Nov 6 19:38:32 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Another Osborne needing TLC Message-ID: <20041107013831.BUTO14765.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> >1) This machines has a large board on top of the mainboard - this board plugs > into the Z80 socket (the Z80 moves to the top board), as well as a ROM > socket and the monitor connector - there is also a bunch of "flying leads" > which connect to various points on the mainboard and attach to a socket/header > on the top board... > > Can anyone tell me what this board is? Is it "normal" on an Osborne-1? > Neither of my 1A's have this board, and the mainboard appears to be the same... > Is it perhaps an upgrade of some kind? > >2) Has anyone disassembled or otherwise obtained source code to the Osborne > boot ROM - I would like to try and figure out how far the machine is getting, > and what it is doing when it restarts. > >3) Has anyone seen this behaviour in an Osborne before? Ok - I've figured just about everything out! ... The board on top is an 80 column adapter. The Boot rom listings are in the technical manual (duh!) The problem with this Osborne is the keyboard! - It is apparently sending a false key, which is causing the O1 to clear/redraw the screen. Unfortunately, the keyboard does not look very servicable ... anyone successfully fixed one of these things? (membrane matrix). Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From bpope at wordstock.com Sat Nov 6 21:25:44 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Replacing an A2000 battery In-Reply-To: <1546.65.123.179.116.1099770946.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> from "ghldbrd@ccp.com" at Nov 6, 04 01:55:46 pm Message-ID: <200411070325.WAA15037@wordstock.com> And thusly ghldbrd@ccp.com spake: > > > > > > > I am currently in the process of replacing my Amiga 2000's battery... On > > the > > one I was finally able to remove there *seems* to be some damage to the > > circuit board that was underneath and nearing the 68000. Instead of the > > circuits being a nice green colour, it is now black. Is there any way to > > tell if this is only a colour change? Also, it looks like some of the > > copper has been eaten away around where the negative part of the battery > > was soldered to the motherboard. > > > sounds like the battery acid leaked out and started eating away. Only way > to know if damage has been done is to see if the board still works (boots) > or not. You can't really clean it off without doing some damage to the > traces. This one doesn't boot up. :( It starts up for a little bit, then the power light flashes a # of times. I have googled for POST error messages but could not find out what this meant. > > > > I have cleaned all of the white crap off with vinegar and a toothbrush. I > > then used "Precision Electronics Cleaner" from RS which is _supposed_ to > > leave no residue. > > > > Also, how are the solder tabs affixed to the battery? The replacement > > batteries I got don't have any. > > The tabe are usually spot welded on. Most cells are designed to go into > some sort of holder that has contacts. You might have to rig up a battery > with pigtail leads and attach that to the mobo, with the battery stuck on > somewhere with RTV or other adhesive. > Also, did I read somewhere earlier that soldering to a battery is a VBT? (Very Bad Thing) ;) Thanks!, Bryan Pope From frustum at pacbell.net Sat Nov 6 22:45:18 2004 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: demodulating audio cassette wav files In-Reply-To: <000201c4c367$213bee00$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> References: <000201c4c367$213bee00$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Message-ID: <418DA85E.4030904@pacbell.net> Richard A. Cini wrote: > Chuck: > > You may want to look at Jim Battle's SOL emulator project > (http://www.thebattles.net) for inspiration. I haven't looked at the code > recently, but IIRC it has a software-based method for demodulating WAV > files. > > Rich my sol emulator has virtual tapes and a virtual tape player. i've wanted to write a really good tape decoder, but it hasn't been high enough priority to displace other projects. Ed somebody in australia wrote a kansas city/cuts decoder/encoder program. I was able to get the thing to decode the tape waveforms that it generates, but I've tried a few real Sol tapes and I can't get them to decode. I sent Ed a sample and he said something along the lines of "I can decode the tapes I generate, so there is probably a problem with your tape." well, in the real world, these tapes do have problems, so the value is in being able to decode even poor tapes. From dr.ido at bigpond.net.au Sat Nov 6 23:53:31 2004 From: dr.ido at bigpond.net.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Replacing an A2000 battery In-Reply-To: <200411070325.WAA15037@wordstock.com> References: <1546.65.123.179.116.1099770946.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> <"ghldbrd@ccp.com"@Nov> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20041107155331.013fd4f4@pop-server> >Also, did I read somewhere earlier that soldering to a battery is a VBT? >(Very Bad Thing) ;) I've also heard that, but I don't know the exact reason for it. I have soldered leads directly to lithium coin type memory backup batteries before without any problems. Usually I fit a battery holder, but sometimes when I don't have one on hand I've taken the lazy/easy option. From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Sat Nov 6 23:15:54 2004 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Kickass "terminal" find: References: <1099752820.30562.9.camel@fortran> Message-ID: <04f601c4c488$db997480$7900a8c0@athlon1200> I still have a Comstate here-might be a Comstate 2 though--it's an excellent RS232 link analyser-should be a handbook somewhere here as well. Dave Brown, Christchurch, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tore S Bekkedal" To: Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 3:53 AM Subject: Kickass "terminal" find: > Allright, my grandma called me telling me she saw something I might > like > at a fleemarket. Thinking it would probably a typewriter or an SVGA > screen, I still wanted to stop by the fleemarket. > > I was wrong. > > It's a big, blue, keyboard-folds-down Atlantic Research Corporation > Interview Comstate I. > > This is one of the coolest pieces of equipment I've ever seen. > > Anyways, it's got a program bank. Are there any other programs > availible > out there? > > It can function as a 1200bps terminal, and it does. > > Anyone know anything about it? > > TIA, > -- > Tore S Bekkedal > > From pcw at mesanet.com Sun Nov 7 00:08:00 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Replacing an A2000 battery In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20041107155331.013fd4f4@pop-server> Message-ID: On Sun, 7 Nov 2004, Dr. Ido wrote: > >Also, did I read somewhere earlier that soldering to a battery is a VBT? > >(Very Bad Thing) ;) > > I've also heard that, but I don't know the exact reason for it. I have > soldered leads directly to lithium coin type memory backup batteries before > without any problems. Usually I fit a battery holder, but sometimes when I > don't have one on hand I've taken the lazy/easy option. > The reason is that when soldering on the wires tabs etc, the Lithium cell may be heated enough to explode in your face = Very Bad Thing Peter Wallace From GOOI at oce.nl Sun Nov 7 04:39:30 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: question about pdp8/e console switches behaviour Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A01113391@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Hi All, after some distraction on other projects I picked up my pdp8/e simulator that runs on the 6809 Core Board. When I stopped a few months ago, I got the simulator working (as far as I can know with my very limited pdp8/e knowledge), but the console (yes, blinkenlights!) crashed the software. That problem is fixed, but what I can not get clear from the books is the active position of the HALT and SING-STEP switches. When the Switch Register switches are "down" they produce a logic zero; the "up" position present logic ones. Likewise for the SW switch. The momentary switches CLEAR, CONT, and EXAM are "up" in their normal position, but in that 'block' are also two switches: HALT and SING-STEP. Are these two active in the "up" or the "down" position? TIA, - Henk, PA8PDP. From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Sun Nov 7 04:51:44 2004 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: question about pdp8/e console switches behaviour In-Reply-To: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A01113391@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Message-ID: <03F336E0-30AB-11D9-9DE6-000A9586BBB0@bluewin.ch> > l > position, but in that 'block' are also two switches: HALT and > SING-STEP. > Are these two active in the "up" or the "down" position? > > Hallo Henk, they are active "down". Jos From dave04a at dunfield.com Sun Nov 7 06:42:00 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Replacing an A2000 battery Message-ID: <20041107124200.LLRS14765.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Hi Bryan, >This one doesn't boot up. :( It starts up for a little bit, then the power >light flashes a # of times. I have googled for POST error messages but >could not find out what this meant. Go here: http://www.programmersheaven.com/zone20/cat268/3369.htm And download HARDWARE.ZIP - this contains HARDWARE.TIP which is a large text file that contains a lot of information about the startup LED flashes and screen colors. Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Nov 6 21:17:09 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Xerox 6060 In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.0.20041106200623.028e4470@mail.zeelandnet.nl> References: <6.1.0.6.0.20041106195454.028e4f38@mail.zeelandnet.nl> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041106221709.0095de10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:07 PM 11/6/04 +0100, you wrote: >It seems to be the same as an Olivetti M24 I just read on the net. IIRC the M24 is the same as the AT&T 6300. The AT&Ts were made by Olivetti and used 8086 CPU and 16 bit bus and non standard keyboards and monitors. The monitors had slightly higher resolution than the PCs and the electrical interfaces were very different. Joe >(Perhaps I should put all my finds together in one mail next time....) > >Stefan > >At 20:00 6-11-2004, you wrote: >>It's a nice little Xerox badged Olivetti. 8088, I think. About the same >>as an AT&T 6300. >> >>On Sat, 6 Nov 2004 birs23@zeelandnet.nl wrote: >> >> > This person has one : >> http://www.minotaurz.com/compmuse/museum/directory.html >> > >> > Quote from the site "Xerox 6060 (1984), very sturdy DOS machine in an >> > attempt to play catchup after the marketing failure of the 8010 Star " >> > >> > Stefan >> > >> > At 18:37 6-11-2004, you wrote: >> > >Any one know anything about a Xerox 6060. I've got a free one to pickup >> > >tomorrow and I'm wondering what it is and is it worth the effort. It's >> > >set up with a 10/10 Bernoulli box too. There doesn't seem to be much on >> > >Google about it as Xerox also uses 6060 as the model number of a large >> > >digital printing press. >> > > >> > >James >> > > >> > > >> > >-- >> > >www.blackcube.org The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers >> > > >> > >> > >> >>-- >>M. K. Peirce >> >>Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. >>Shady Lea, Rhode Island >> >>"Casta est quam nemo rogavit." >> >> - Ovid > >------------------------------------------------------- >http://www.oldcomputercollection.com > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Nov 6 21:23:45 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Flexowriter: Round 2! In-Reply-To: <1099781045.26811.58.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <3.0.6.32.20041105221020.009604b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041105221020.009604b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041106222345.0095dd90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:44 PM 11/6/04 +0000, you wrote: >On Fri, 2004-11-05 at 22:10 -0500, Joe R. wrote: >> Today I started working on the 2nd Flexowriter. First I should point >> out that this is a newer machine than the first one. This one has an >> ~13,500 serial number and the first one has an ~4,000 serial number. > >I *think* our one that I want to try and get running had a serial up in >the 20000 range; it looks far more like this second one of yours in >build (than the first) only with a more modern feel. > >Watch the little tape advance knobs on the left hand side; ours are >plastic with a small lip to them and both have been damaged (either from >something slamming into them or from someone tipping the machine over >onto that end, where the knobs would take all the weight of the >machine). Easy to catch them on something when moving the machine around >at any rate. The knobs on both of these are metal. I think they're aluminium but I didn't look closely. There are holes for two set screws in each knob. However in the first machine there's only one screw in each knob. I don't know if they're supposed to be that way or if someone just left out the other screws. I haven't checked the screws in the knobs of the 2nd machine. > >> machine is that all the removeable covers are dark blue instead of brown. > >ours is a mixture of white and mid-blue - looks rather smart :) As said >in a private email, 4-digit model number starting with a 2, but I can't >remember the rest :/ Is your's marked Frieden or Commercial Controls? I'd like to see a picture of your blue and white machine if possible. I've never seen one painted that way. Joe > >cheers > >Jules > > From bpope at wordstock.com Sun Nov 7 10:00:10 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Replacing an A2000 battery In-Reply-To: from "Peter C. Wallace" at Nov 6, 04 10:08:00 pm Message-ID: <200411071600.LAA04832@wordstock.com> And thusly Peter C. Wallace spake: > > On Sun, 7 Nov 2004, Dr. Ido wrote: > > > >Also, did I read somewhere earlier that soldering to a battery is a VBT? > > >(Very Bad Thing) ;) > > > > I've also heard that, but I don't know the exact reason for it. I have > > soldered leads directly to lithium coin type memory backup batteries before > > without any problems. Usually I fit a battery holder, but sometimes when I > > don't have one on hand I've taken the lazy/easy option. > > > > > The reason is that when soldering on the wires tabs etc, the Lithium cell may > be heated enough to explode in your face = Very Bad Thing > Will the same thing happen with a NiCad battery? Cheers, Bryan Pope From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sun Nov 7 10:18:09 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Anything in the Ottawa - Toronto - Guelph area? In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20041105064131.01903298@smtp.wincom.net> References: <200411041642.39616.kenziem@sympatico.ca> <200411050332.WAA29296@wordstock.com> <6.1.2.0.0.20041105064131.01903298@smtp.wincom.net> Message-ID: <200411071118.11811.kenziem@sympatico.ca> On Friday 05 November 2004 06:42, Charles E. Fox wrote: > At 10:32 PM 04/11/2004, you wrote: > >And thusly Mike Kenzie spake: > > > I'll be making a trip this weekend to pick up a few ICON's. > > > >I want pictures of them! :) I used to use them in high school... It's > >where I first learned 'C'. I believe they also used the QNX OS, which > >coincidently I program under now... :) (Using C, of course!) > > > > > Passing throught Toronto from Ottawa on route to Guelph. > > > >Somewhat OT, but there is the Sleeman's brewery in Guelph. ;-) The machines were just across the street from the brewery. They were all set up for a demo when I got there. Here's 2 large pictures (1.8M) of the load. http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/p1000024.jpg http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/p1000025.jpg From pcw at mesanet.com Sun Nov 7 11:20:21 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Replacing an A2000 battery In-Reply-To: <200411071600.LAA04832@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 7 Nov 2004, Bryan Pope wrote: > And thusly Peter C. Wallace spake: > > > > On Sun, 7 Nov 2004, Dr. Ido wrote: > > > > > >Also, did I read somewhere earlier that soldering to a battery is a VBT? > > > >(Very Bad Thing) ;) > > > > > > I've also heard that, but I don't know the exact reason for it. I have > > > soldered leads directly to lithium coin type memory backup batteries before > > > without any problems. Usually I fit a battery holder, but sometimes when I > > > don't have one on hand I've taken the lazy/easy option. > > > > > > > > > The reason is that when soldering on the wires tabs etc, the Lithium cell may > > be heated enough to explode in your face = Very Bad Thing > > > > Will the same thing happen with a NiCad battery? Much less likely due to the reactivity of battery chemistry. Still, overheating batteries is never a good thing (spot welding is very fast with only localized heating) If I had to solder tabs on a Nicad, I'd do it with a large hot iron so the total soldering time is in the second or two range. > > Cheers, > > Bryan Pope > Peter Wallace From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Nov 7 15:20:59 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Infoserver SCSI chips? Message-ID: <200411072139.iA7LdIOP067116@huey.classiccmp.org> Hi folks, Had a mail from someone wanting to know which SCSI chip is used in the Infoserver 150. My own machine is 250 miles away so have any of you got said machine handy for a quick check? cheers :) -- Adrian/Witchy Owner/Curator of Binary Dinosaurs, quite probably the UK's biggest private home computer collection www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online museum www.aaghverts.co.uk - *the* site for advert whinges! www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - former gothic shenanigans :( From emu at ecubics.com Sun Nov 7 16:25:15 2004 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Infoserver SCSI chips? In-Reply-To: <200411072139.iA7LdIOP067116@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200411072139.iA7LdIOP067116@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <418EA0CB.2070101@ecubics.com> Adrian Graham wrote: > Hi folks, > > Had a mail from someone wanting to know which SCSI chip is used in the > Infoserver 150. My own machine is 250 miles away so have any of you got said > machine handy for a quick check? But you have internet access ? Check this "www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online museum" and the pictures of the inforserver 150. There is a NCR5380 grinning at you ;-) > > cheers :) > > -- > Adrian/Witchy > Owner/Curator of Binary Dinosaurs, quite probably the UK's biggest private > home computer collection > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online museum > www.aaghverts.co.uk - *the* site for advert whinges! > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - former gothic shenanigans :( > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Nov 7 16:45:30 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: MK11 box controller, or M8159 board schematics Message-ID: <1099867530.27664.76.camel@weka.localdomain> Was fiddling with our Decsystem 570 this weekend. Seems like we may have a PSU fault as the left-hand M8728 MOS memory boards in the crate don't have a lit green LED on the top, whilst the right-hand boards do. Tried the obvious swapping memory boards around and the associated A/B control boards with no luck, and according to the bitsavers docs a problem with PSU B would knock out that portion of the memory crate's bus. Anyway, I'm looking for either the schematics for either the MK11 box controller, or for the M8159 data buffer board. In particular I need the pin connection diagram for the 40 pin ribbon cable that runs between the box controller and the M8159 board. Our Decsystem 570 never had a box controller; instead it had someone's homebrew attempt at half a box controller - a bunch of LEDs on a single- width board plugged into slot 26/F of the memory crate, and a couple of SPDT switches grafted onto the edge of the M8159 board (yuck!). Slot 26 in the MK11 appears to be a spare; someone's added wires beneath to connect three of the LEDs back to the power supplies, so I know those are doing the equivalent of the battery status LEDs in a real box controller. However, there's three more LEDs on the homebrew board that are soldered directly to various pins on the box controller connector of the M8159, and the two bodged switches are connected up to pins here too. The two switches are unlabelled, so knowing the pinouts of the box controller connector is the only way of working out what they do. Working out what the three unknown and unmarked LEDs are for would be handy too! The manual for the MK11 doesn't go into detail of connector wiring though - any have the relevant schematics? cheers! Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Nov 7 16:46:23 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Infoserver SCSI chips? In-Reply-To: <418EA0CB.2070101@ecubics.com> References: <200411072139.iA7LdIOP067116@huey.classiccmp.org> <418EA0CB.2070101@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <1099867583.27664.77.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-11-07 at 15:25 -0700, emanuel stiebler wrote: > Adrian Graham wrote: > > Hi folks, > > > > Had a mail from someone wanting to know which SCSI chip is used in the > > Infoserver 150. My own machine is 250 miles away so have any of you got said > > machine handy for a quick check? > > But you have internet access ? > > Check this "www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online museum" and the > pictures of the inforserver 150. There is a NCR5380 grinning at you ;-) ha ha - nice one :-) From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Nov 7 18:13:11 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Infoserver SCSI chips? In-Reply-To: <418EA0CB.2070101@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <200411080031.iA80VXOP067720@huey.classiccmp.org> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of emanuel stiebler > Sent: 07 November 2004 22:25 > To: General@jupiter.easily.co.uk; > Discussion@jupiter.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Infoserver SCSI chips? > > But you have internet access ? > > Check this "www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online museum" > and the pictures of the inforserver 150. There is a NCR5380 > grinning at you ;-) Gah! That's what happens when I don't check my own stuff, though said correspondent had told me he'd checked my infoserver images and they were just too blurry to be useful. I wonder what screen resolution he's using? The one picture with visible lettering on the NCR chip is obvious to me and I'm running 1600x1200.... cheers w From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Nov 8 09:05:23 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Infoserver SCSI chips? References: <418EA0CB.2070101@ecubics.com> <200411080031.iA80VXOP067720@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <16783.35635.125000.896404@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Adrian" == Adrian Graham writes: >> -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of emanuel >> stiebler Sent: 07 November 2004 22:25 To: >> General@jupiter.easily.co.uk; >> Discussion@jupiter.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >> Subject: Re: Infoserver SCSI chips? >> >> But you have internet access ? >> >> Check this "www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online museum" and the >> pictures of the inforserver 150. There is a NCR5380 grinning at >> you ;-) Adrian> Gah! That's what happens when I don't check my own stuff, Adrian> though said correspondent had told me he'd checked my Adrian> infoserver images and they were just too blurry to be Adrian> useful. I wonder what screen resolution he's using? The one Adrian> picture with visible lettering on the NCR chip is obvious to Adrian> me and I'm running 1600x1200.... Time to confess... I looked at several photos but somehow managed to miss the one that shows things clearly! Oops. Thanks gents... paul From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Nov 8 09:29:13 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Morrow MT-70 available in Buckingham, PA USA Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041108092719.04f28b78@pc> Strangely, I receive notice of a computer rescue via fax. It includes a "works great" Morrow MT-70 (a CP/M era machine) and a Silver-Reed printer, all with manuals. Contact Earl Guertler at ejguertler@aol.com . - John From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Nov 8 09:31:38 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: Calculator prices for insurance Message-ID: <1099927898.28896.48.camel@weka.localdomain> Does anyone know of any online resources containing rough prices for mechanical and early electronic calculators? I need to sort out some insurance details for some of the museum collection, and whilst I can come up with ballpark figures for the big iron and ebay's a good source for prices for common 8 bitters, it doesn't help for some of the early (and rare) mechanical / electronic calculators. Are there any good online resources out there, even if prices are a little out of date? (In particular I'd like to put a value on some of our Sumlock and Anita stuff) Out of interest, my general insurance thoughts are: The insurance value should really cover the costs of finding something of similar "value" in the event of a lost item being unobtainable. So it needs to cover purchase cost, shipping cost, additional purchase of any manuals/docs/software as necessary, and of someone's time to commission the item and learn how it works. In other words, it's more than the simple "but it on ebay" value. Thoughts, anyone? cheers Jules -- "We've had a lot of loonies around this place, but you're the first one who thought the sunrise was made out of stale beer. Now are you going to pick up your flute and leave, or shall I part your hair with this crowbar?" From newcomer at c64.rulez.org Mon Nov 8 10:27:54 2004 From: newcomer at c64.rulez.org (Newcomer Creators) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:33 2005 Subject: garagesale Message-ID: Zsibvasar / GARAGE SALE !!! I'm from Hungary, you can contact me at or via the mailing list. Shipping to abroad is manageable, however, as I'm in central europe, shipping to asia or the US can get somewhat difficult. The following items are for sale (or perhaps exchange, if you got something I might want): CISCO console cables, RJ-45 to RJ-45, RJ-45 to Dsub9, even a few adapters, bleeh... DEC Alpha soundport , part no.: #5424572 (has audio I/O jacks, TDA1517 amp, and slot for Hw wavetable module). DEC Alpha Eth 10/100 module, part no.: #5424560 (has DP83840 and DP83223 xceiver, and UTP jack). IBM frame buffer cable, part no.: "58F2903". 2 pcs. of B.A.T.M. BNC/m to RJ45/fm coax baluns, , part no.: "BMC-9303". 2 pcs. of AMPHENOL BNC/m to RJ45/fm balun, part no.: "555058-1". SINIX keyboard adapter cable, part no.: "T26139-Y2370-V701 GSO2 GTL". SUN serial cable, part no.: "530-1662-01 REV-52 0843-9113". SUN serial cable, part no.: "530-1662-01 REV.50 0843-9024". SCSI stuff Sort of anything SCSI -- the list goes: 68pin UW SCSI mobile rack, brand new condition, still in packaging, by ViPower. 4 pcs. of LVD-capable 68 pin to SCA adapters (BEWARE - salvaged from IBM RS6000 hot-swap racks, might or might not be standard wide2SCA, seems to be std. enough, though). 2 pcs. of IBM RS6000 hot-swap Wide SCSI racks, 3 HDD/rack, part no.: "61G3842", plus a weird wide SCSI to ??? twisted-pair cable and a power distributor cable. Might be HVD equipment? Wide to SCA adapter "XPL-065B v1.1", brand new, seems to be SE-only. Wide and narrow to SCA adapter "XPL-065-C v1.0", brand new, seems to be SE-only. Internal to external narrow SCSI port w./ Dsub25F ext. connector. Internal to external narrow Fast narrow SCSI port w./ HDsub50M ext. connector. Internal to external SE wide SCSI port with 30 cm long cable. Wide SCSI to "Centronics" adapter with active negation, brand new. External narrow SCSI HDsub50m to ??? (looks like a half-size Centronics, definitely not the sub-mini "SUN" connector), brand new. External narrow SCSI cable HDsub50M to Centronics M. External narrow SCSI cable Centronics M to Centronics M. External narrow SCSI cable Dsub25M to Centronics M. 2 pcs. of External narrow SCSI cable Dsub25M to Dsub25M, brand new, IOMEGA brand, from ZIP drives. 160cm long narrow SCSI 'RAID' cable, 8 heads + active terminator. Apple stuff ADB expander, miniDIN4M to miniDIN4M, 120cm long spiralled cable(160cm max length). Mac to Sync-on-Green BNC display adapter-cable by FORMAC. Mac to VGA adapter "MG65PMA", with display sense bit switches, I even have the docs. Exotic keyboards Left-handed (kinda 'reversed') keyboard for ppl who like challenges, high-quality mechanism, p/s2 compatible, practically brand new, .de layout, NO WINDOWS KEYS! If I don't sell it, I might even consider swapping the keycaps to Dvorak layout (this keyboard is freakish enough by default, though). "Type 5" SUN-compatible keyboard made by Solbourne Computer in Japan for their SUN clones, US layout, good working condition, has both RJ-11 and miniDIN connectors. SC assembled this keyboard in a smaller and more compact case than genuine SUN-made Type5s, and for a time I was considering to build the MCU-based p/s2 adapter I found online to be able to use this nice keyboard with my thin client. Bull Questar 303 keyboard, part no.: KBU 3031, US layout. INTERGRAPH keyboard with RJ-11 jack, US layout. RAM *A buddy of mine has about 6 pieces of 64MB 60ns 72pin FPM w. parity SIMMs for sale. All these SIMMs came from HP 9000 boxes, and are BIG double-height bastards. *I am looking for a 32MB 5V buffered ECC EDO DIMM, preferably of part no.: "HP XU6/200 3554B", for my ProLiant 6500 quad PPro box -- this box uses 4-way interleaved memory and I have but 11 pcs., so I can't install the 3rd bank of RAM. Please tell me IF you can help. 2 pcs. of 16MB 5V buffered 60ns NP EDO DIMMs, IBM part no.: "92G7334". One 16MB 5V buffered 60ns ECC DIMM, HP part no.: "1818-6485" IEEE-488 stuff Amazing range of IEEE-488 stuff, price varies (ie. what you got in exchange?) Physical interface adapters to/from different IEEE-488 aka GPIB alias HP-IB connector standards, like IEC-625 <-> ANSI MC 1.1, gender changers, whatever, several still in factory packaging. Cables, extender cables, "hub" cables and adapter cables. Ask. Also an Addonics IND-311 (ISA) host card w. mint condition manual. PeeCee junk A fat dozen ISA cards and some PCI ones. NICs (Eth and TokenRing), I/O, VGA, VGA+EGA, CGA, ASUS SuperMulti VLB card with IDE + SVGA + i/o ports, like-brand-new 120 MB Maxtor PIO Mode-0 HDD (from a factory sealed ESCOM 386 PC I found and salvaged). Voodoo3 3000 PCI. SIGMA "REALmagic" DVD/home-theater card, compatible with 'libDXR3' in linux, supported by mplayer and xine -- provides accelerated video post-processing + AAC playback in Hw + a generic '/dev/pcm' soundport with analogue and digital (coax) sound outputs in a single PCI slot. That's all! Hoild^UNC http://www.newcomer.hu From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Nov 8 10:28:19 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: asset management - help :-) Message-ID: <1099931299.28913.74.camel@weka.localdomain> I know some of you on this list work for various museums, or have extensive enough collections that a proper asset management system might be needed :-) I've been working on one for the museum here for a while, with the goal of making it easy to add information (so that museum staff aren't tempted to not bother!) and easy to search / browse in a useful way. (Heck knows we need a proper centralised 'list'!) I've pretty much figured out what data's useful to capture, and how a UI might work from the point of view of different user roles (maintenance / administration / browsing etc.) What I'm puzzling over is how to record any relationship between hardware / software / documentation, or even to what extent any relationship needs to be recorded. Thoughts on this would be most appreciated, and I wonder what other museums do... As an example, say we're given a Sinclair machine with some tape software and some manuals. Obviously the machine needs an asset sticker plonked on it and its details stuck in the register. The docs and software also need recording in a DB somewhere such that we know what software we have, and that we have x copies of such-and-such a doc (we'd like to have a public-access library on site, and even lend docs out to trusted people when possible) Question is, do we link the docs and software to that particular machine, or is it better to just put those in essentially isolated databases and recording that they're for such-and-such a model of machine? And what's best for the odds and ends - power supplies, leads, packaging etc.? Do they warrant recording / tagging somehow? And as for what to do with donations of bits I don't know (e.g. when someone gives us a stack of random DEC boards) It gets to be a little more complex than a traditional museum where there's a collection of distinct items - in this case there's a big collection of stuff with a lot of interchangability (if that's a word) between components, and so managing it all is something of a total nightmare! Maybe the idea of knowing exactly what we have at any one time is impossible - but that's a shame if we've got some redundant bit of hardware lurking in storage which we could donate to someone else who desperately needed it to restore a system. Ideas and comments would be *very* much appreciated! cheers Jules From rich_bramante at yahoo.com Mon Nov 8 10:53:08 2004 From: rich_bramante at yahoo.com (Rich Bramante) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: DD 5.25" floppies available Message-ID: <20041108165309.47296.qmail@web53202.mail.yahoo.com> I just came into a rather load of several hundred used 5.25" DD floppies. There is no way I want to hoard them all. It is a mixed bag of SS, DS, 48 TPI, 96 TPI, brand names, generics, unlabelled, some have been double-notched, etc. There are also some boxes of new disks still in shrinkwarp (3M mostly. Some Kodak). Most seem to have been Apple II and C64 stuff. Anyway, if your in the market for a fairly good sized lot (say 50+) of untested disks cheap, drop me a line. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Nov 8 11:41:15 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: [Bulk] Re: asset management - help :-) In-Reply-To: References: <1099931299.28913.74.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1099935675.28896.104.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-11-08 at 16:47 +0000, Alex White wrote: > > On Mon, 8 Nov 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > What I'm puzzling over is how to record any relationship between > > hardware / software / documentation, or even to what extent any > > relationship needs to be recorded. Thoughts on this would be most > > appreciated, and I wonder what other museums do... > > > > Question is, do we link the docs and software to that particular > > machine, or is it better to just put those in essentially isolated > > databases and recording that they're for such-and-such a model of > > machine? > > Record make and model that the main machine itself, docco, boards etc > apply to and also record an overall asset ID for the entire shipment > itself which links into a seperate table for information about who, > where, history of etc a shipment (machine, some manuals and a few tapes) > came from. > > Manuals and bits can float around in the collection but can be tracked > back together as a complete "gift" from a person. > > Want me to diagram it in UML? UML diag could be useful just to capture your thoughts, if it's a quick job for you. I can't mail you privately by the way - NTL's bouncing the message with a 'microvax.org not found' error, although it resolves via ping OK. Dodgy MX record somewhere? cheers Jules From tomj at wps.com Sun Nov 7 12:12:38 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: Cleaning gungy Flexowriter In-Reply-To: <418C6D62.9010209@internet1.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20041104090220.00a0dd00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <418B1FB7.90603@internet1.net> <418C6D62.9010209@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Nov 2004, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Tom Jennings wrote: > > A good point; this stuff is HARSH. It's a degreaser, and > > contains a lot of lye, amongst other things, it eats skin > > (literally makign you bleed if you leave it on your skin). > > Are you sure about the lye? I've used lye before, and didn't think that it > was like Castol Super Clean at all. I suppose the other ingredients and > fragrances may be the differences, though. > > I used to use Castrol SC with my bare hands. I stopped, though. I figured it > probably wasn't good in the long term, and I got tired of my hands drying out > so bad. > > Someone else mentioned what it can do to aluminum..... I'd forgotten about > that. It's actually been quite some time since I've used the stuff. Oh it's harsh stuff, but that's the point, right? It eats congealed grease, not a delicate job to begin with. Petro solvents are the same in that, they have Side Effects. I've gotten the stuff on my hands, and it's very nasty, I'd never use it un-gloved! YOu can't rinse the stuff off your skin hardly -- it grips all the oils and organics tightly. It's made me BLEED when I got a pinholed glove, etc. > > I like to keep 3M's adhesive remover around. I buy it at the local body shop > supply store. I don't think I've ever had it harm the surface that I was > working with. AUtomotive chemicals are a good source for restoration; they have a lot of the same issues we do. Don't hurt paint, plastics, etc and there's a lot of them. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 8 12:50:17 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: garagesale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 8 12:57:33 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: asset management - help :-) In-Reply-To: <1099931299.28913.74.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Nov 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > What I'm puzzling over is how to record any relationship between > hardware / software / documentation, or even to what extent any > relationship needs to be recorded. Thoughts on this would be most > appreciated, and I wonder what other museums do... Many museums simply give one accession number to an entire lot that gets donated. So if a computer comes in with it's monitor, disk drives, software and manuals, that's given one accession number and one database entry. Me personally, I started documenting every last bit of hardware, software and documentation I had, and giving each it's own record. I would then link them to a "parent" record by way of a simple pointer to the other record, and vice versa. It depends on how detailed you want to get. I'm an info spaz so I'd prefer to have even the individual peripheral cards inside computers to also be identified individually and then linked back to their "parent" object. > Question is, do we link the docs and software to that particular > machine, or is it better to just put those in essentially isolated > databases and recording that they're for such-and-such a model of > machine? The way I have handled my collection is to consider each piece coming through as an individual item in and of itself. This is not what museums do for the most part, but I'm not really a "museum", though I try to act like one. I'm more of an archive really. Only when it matters do I try to keep parts of a lot of stuff I receive together. > And what's best for the odds and ends - power supplies, leads, packaging > etc.? Do they warrant recording / tagging somehow? And as for what to > do with donations of bits I don't know (e.g. when someone gives us a > stack of random DEC boards) Let's say I have a boxed Commodore 64. I would enter that as a Commodore 64 and then include either in the notes or in a special database field whether the item includes it's original packaging. Power supplies and such I would not give separate entries unless warranted (like, say, the power distribution cabinet of an IBM mainframe). > Maybe the idea of knowing exactly what we have at any one time is > impossible - but that's a shame if we've got some redundant bit of > hardware lurking in storage which we could donate to someone else who > desperately needed it to restore a system. My goal from the beginning has been to be able to know exactly what I have, and more importantly, WHERE :) I'm still a long way's off from that goal unfortunately. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 8 13:00:07 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: VCF 7.0 micro wrap-up Message-ID: So VCF 7.0 was pretty damn awesome. Thanks to all who came, especially to those who exhibited. Attendance was lower than last year, but the turnout was still really good. I won't have an absolute number for a few more days yet. I'll try to get the photo gallery up a lot quicker this time. Look for that in the next two weeks. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cswiger at widomaker.com Mon Nov 8 13:22:38 2004 From: cswiger at widomaker.com (cswiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: Der Mouse success with Altair cassette audio Message-ID: <20041108141542.T70108@wilma.widomaker.com> Gang - Hats off to Der Mouse for coming up with working code that can convert a wav audio file to data. It imported into simh/altairZ80 via the PTR device and saved onto an mbasic boot disk just fine and so far runs. 22 Years ago I had to massage the TRS/80 basic code to get it to work on MITS 8K basic and thankfully didn't have to do it all over again! A fun adventure game (Altair flavor) saved. --Chuck From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Nov 8 13:31:55 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: asset management - help :-) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1099942315.28913.122.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-11-08 at 10:57 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 8 Nov 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > What I'm puzzling over is how to record any relationship between > > hardware / software / documentation, or even to what extent any > > relationship needs to be recorded. Thoughts on this would be most > > appreciated, and I wonder what other museums do... > > Many museums simply give one accession number to an entire lot that gets > donated. So if a computer comes in with it's monitor, disk drives, > software and manuals, that's given one accession number and one database > entry. > > Me personally, I started documenting every last bit of hardware, software > and documentation I had, and giving each it's own record. I would then > link them to a "parent" record by way of a simple pointer to the other > record, and vice versa. Yep, that does seem the sensible way to go. And as Alex said, the parent record can hold details of where an item came from (I want to capture where stuff goes to as well - we'll dispose of surplus items to good homes every so often and that'd be a useful thing to know so that related stuff that may turn up can be passed on too) > It depends on how detailed you want to get. I'm an info spaz Me too - I just want to make sure it doesn't take someone else hours to enter new data as and when things are donated, as I won't be the only one filling in entries :) Personally I'd rather have more information and never need it than not enough, though. Taking a wild guess I'd estimate that we have in the order of a thousand systems though, so that's one hell of a backlog to catch up on! That's without all the boards, software, docs etc. that need looking through even. Given that, a phased approach is probably needed where only the minimum of data needs entering initially, with a seperate process to flag incomplete records for future completion. > Let's say I have a boxed Commodore 64. I would enter that as a Commodore > 64 and then include either in the notes or in a special database field > whether the item includes it's original packaging. Power supplies and > such I would not give separate entries unless warranted (like, say, the > power distribution cabinet of an IBM mainframe). That'd be my preference too. My only worry is situations like finding an oddball lead sitting around and having no idea what machine it's for - which means it can't be put away with its machine, which in turn means it sits around for years or worse still gets chucked as being useless. (In reality I'd end up posting a photo here if I didn't know what it was, and I wouldn't leave it on the side in the first place - but not all people are me :-) cheers, Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Nov 8 13:43:51 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: asset management - help :-) In-Reply-To: References: <1099931299.28913.74.camel@weka.localdomain> <1099935675.28896.104.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1099943031.28896.132.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-11-08 at 19:29 +0000, Alex White wrote: > > On Mon, 8 Nov 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > On Mon, 2004-11-08 at 16:47 +0000, Alex White wrote: > > > Want me to diagram it in UML? > > > > UML diag could be useful just to capture your thoughts, if it's a quick > > job for you. > > http://www.microvax.org/~melt/computers/computerMuseum.png grabbed a local copy - thanks :) Will take a proper look in a mo... > I used qSEE Superlite if you want to grab the .qsee file from that > directory. Free (0 quid) for noncommercial use, will generate ugly XML and > Java from UML. rats - no Windows around here :-) > > I can't mail you privately by the way - NTL's bouncing the message with > > a 'microvax.org not found' error, although it resolves via ping OK. > > Dodgy MX record somewhere? > > Strange. I'm logged into mail.microvax.org right now in Pine and > everything else is coming through fine. Maybe it's because i'm on an NTL > residential line myself (yes, i'm breaking one of my own cardinal rules > about hosting an email server on a residential line but it's for my own > use only, and I can't afford any better right now). Strange stuff, though. > Have poked my unreliable nameservice provider. Hmm, I run my mail using the same setup; I send outgoing mail via a local running sendmail and then to NTL's mailserver(s) though - the NTL server's a smart relay host in my local sendmail config. *very* occasionally I'll find I can't mail someone because their ISP detects that the mail originated from a machine within a dynamic address range, but by very occasionally I mean once every 6 months or so. And that's me sending out from here anyway, not receiving. I've never seen this problem before though; I rather suspect it was just NTL's systems having a total spaz. If I remember (or prod me!) I'll see you a test msg tomorrow and see if that goes through... FWIW, yahoo's junk filter is flagging your messages as spam, so it thinks something is up too (unfortunately it isn't useful enough to tell me *why* it thinks it's spam) cheers Jules From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 8 15:17:45 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: asset management - help :-) In-Reply-To: <1099942315.28913.122.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Nov 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > That'd be my preference too. My only worry is situations like finding an > oddball lead sitting around and having no idea what machine it's for - > which means it can't be put away with its machine, which in turn means > it sits around for years or worse still gets chucked as being useless. > (In reality I'd end up posting a photo here if I didn't know what it > was, and I wouldn't leave it on the side in the first place - but not > all people are me :-) Power leads/cords are generally pretty generic. I don't bother worrying to keep a power cord with the system it came with. Again, only if it matters (i.e. it's way funky/proprietary). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From tomj at wps.com Mon Nov 8 15:47:12 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: Replacing an A2000 battery In-Reply-To: <200411071600.LAA04832@wordstock.com> References: <200411071600.LAA04832@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 7 Nov 2004, Bryan Pope wrote: > > The reason is that when soldering on the wires tabs etc, the Lithium cell may > > be heated enough to explode in your face = Very Bad Thing > > > > Will the same thing happen with a NiCad battery? This will become one of those 'how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?' threads if we don't watch out... Yes and no. At one extreme, if you get any cell hot enough, it will leak, dry out, corrode, burst, etc. At the other, if the cell has enough mass, or the tab/button/metal end/etc is thermally isolated enough from the chemical guts, it'll be just fine. If you are proficient with a soldering iron, the metal is cooperative (eg. solder wets it easily), it has a long welded tab (some do), are very careful (eg. pre-wet solder on the cell end; tin light wire properly; heat cell end to flow the two together) you can make it work just fine. If you're not skilled with a soldering iron and don't have a seat-of-the-pants feel for what's going on, you should probably not do it. It's skills-based judgement calls. Big fat cells, good chance. Tiny, flat, watch cells, bad chance. YMMV. From tomj at wps.com Mon Nov 8 15:56:52 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: VCF 7.0 micro wrap-up In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Nov 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > So VCF 7.0 was pretty damn awesome. Thanks to all who came, especially to > those who exhibited. I totally agree. It was a bit of a whirlwind, and I didn't get to talk to enough people, and got conferencitis (dry throat, dehydrated, didn't eat enough, sore feet from standing in hallways talking). The talks I did attend were varied and interesting, the exhibits I barely got enough time to walk through exhaustively (probably 2.5hrs total, could have used another hour) and some of the exhibits, such as the home-built Meccano differential analyzer (!) were terrifyingly great. Never mind the pdp1, visible storage, the 1401 resto ... Three cheers to Sellam and his wife for all the work! From Pres at macro-inc.com Mon Nov 8 16:12:08 2004 From: Pres at macro-inc.com (Ed Kelleher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: VCF 7.0 micro wrap-up In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041108171159.02c64950@192.168.0.1> At 04:56 PM 11/8/2004, you wrote: >Never mind the pdp1, visible storage, the 1401 resto ... > >Three cheers to Sellam and his wife for all the work! Hurrah! *= 3 From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Nov 8 16:19:41 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: To Alex W. Message-ID: <1099952381.28896.179.camel@weka.localdomain> FYI email's still broken matey - I just got a bounce back from my response to your earlier request for a test :-( New DNS provider time for ya, I reckon! (Apologies to everyone else for the OT!) -- "We've had a lot of loonies around this place, but you're the first one who thought the sunrise was made out of stale beer. Now are you going to pick up your flute and leave, or shall I part your hair with this crowbar?" From williams.dan at gmail.com Mon Nov 8 18:48:16 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: To Alex W. In-Reply-To: <1099952381.28896.179.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1099952381.28896.179.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <26c11a640411081648614efe6f@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 22:19:41 +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > FYI email's still broken matey - I just got a bounce back from my > response to your earlier request for a test :-( New DNS provider time > for ya, I reckon! > > (Apologies to everyone else for the OT!) > > -- > "We've had a lot of loonies around this place, but you're the first one > who thought the sunrise was made out of stale beer. Now are you going to > pick up your flute and leave, or shall I part your hair with this > crowbar?" > I wonder if he'll get the message then ;) Dan From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Mon Nov 8 22:18:20 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: Big scratch in CRT fix? Message-ID: <636B5CC8-3206-11D9-B8DF-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> I just got a nice Mac Classic II, but it has a 1 1/2 " (inch!) scratch in the front of the CRT. I can't tell how deep the scratch is, but a finger nail catches there. Does anyone know what can be done to fix a bad scratch like that? Am I in any real danger of the CRT imploding? Someone suggested toothpaste (the white kind) any comments? From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Mon Nov 8 22:19:57 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: Need a battery or Batteryholder... Message-ID: <9D1595A6-3206-11D9-B8DF-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> For an HP 21/25/25C anybody got a spare? I don't care if the included ni-cad batterys are leaky I know how to fix that. From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Nov 8 22:28:41 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: Big scratch in CRT fix? References: <636B5CC8-3206-11D9-B8DF-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <009401c4c614$986778a0$0200fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Hudson" To: "Classic Computers" Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 11:18 PM Subject: Big scratch in CRT fix? > I just got a nice Mac Classic II, but it has a 1 1/2 " (inch!) scratch > in the front of > the CRT. I can't tell how deep the scratch is, but a finger nail > catches there. > > Does anyone know what can be done to fix a bad scratch like that? > > Am I in any real danger of the CRT imploding? > > Someone suggested toothpaste (the white kind) any comments? > There is something to fill in chips in glass car windshields, try finding that. From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Nov 8 22:30:00 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: Big scratch in CRT fix? In-Reply-To: <636B5CC8-3206-11D9-B8DF-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: > Does anyone know what can be done to fix a bad scratch like that? I would use the same stuff the windshield folks use. > Am I in any real danger of the CRT imploding? No, a scratch like that is pretty harmless. The safety glass on modern CRTs is unbelievably strong stuff. > Someone suggested toothpaste (the white kind) any comments? I think you would need to buy a case of the stuff to knock out a deep scratch. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Nov 9 06:18:06 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: To Alex W. In-Reply-To: <26c11a640411081648614efe6f@mail.gmail.com> References: <1099952381.28896.179.camel@weka.localdomain> <26c11a640411081648614efe6f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1100002686.30491.20.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-11-09 at 00:48 +0000, Dan Williams wrote: > On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 22:19:41 +0000, Jules Richardson > wrote: > > FYI email's still broken matey - I just got a bounce back from my > > response to your earlier request for a test :-( New DNS provider time > > for ya, I reckon! > > > > (Apologies to everyone else for the OT!) > > > > -- > > "We've had a lot of loonies around this place, but you're the first one > > who thought the sunrise was made out of stale beer. Now are you going to > > pick up your flute and leave, or shall I part your hair with this > > crowbar?" > > > I wonder if he'll get the message then ;) Heh, he did - classiccmp was one of the places that he was still getting mail from due to cached MX records. Think he's changed providers now so hopefully all is well :) From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Nov 9 10:48:32 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: Replacing an A2000 battery In-Reply-To: <20041107124200.LLRS14765.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> from "Dave Dunfield" at Nov 7, 04 07:42:00 am Message-ID: <200411091648.LAA01960@wordstock.com> And thusly Dave Dunfield spake: > > Hi Bryan, > > >This one doesn't boot up. :( It starts up for a little bit, then the power > >light flashes a # of times. I have googled for POST error messages but > >could not find out what this meant. > > Go here: > http://www.programmersheaven.com/zone20/cat268/3369.htm > > And download HARDWARE.ZIP - this contains HARDWARE.TIP which is a large > text file that contains a lot of information about the startup LED flashes > and screen colors. > Dave, Thanks! But it looks like I have bad RAM... And there are *32* RAM chips soldered onto this board. Eek. So should I be planning to desolder all of the RAM, solder in IC sockets and then keep swapping out RAM until I get farther in the boot process? Cheers, Bryan Pope From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Nov 9 11:24:51 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: Replacing an A2000 battery In-Reply-To: <200411091648.LAA01960@wordstock.com> References: <200411091648.LAA01960@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, Bryan Pope wrote: > Thanks! But it looks like I have bad RAM... And there are *32* RAM > chips soldered onto this board. Eek. So should I be planning to desolder > all of the RAM, solder in IC sockets and then keep swapping out RAM until > I get farther in the boot process? > A bit of oft-repeated hardware-geek lore when faced with this prospect: first try to narrow down, if you can, which of the chips (or bank of chips) is causing the fault. Then, clip the legs of the chip(s) as nearly flush to the body of the chip as you can, leaving them soldered into the board. This is especially required if the board is more than about four layers - without the proper tools and not-a-small-amount of experience, you'll kill your mobo for sure otherwise. After you have removed the body of the defective chip(s) you can easily straighten the legs and solder a socket to them. Of course use care and a light touch in attaching the socket. I've done this numerous times, it's a lifesaver in this type of situation. Cheers John From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Nov 9 11:29:46 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: mailing list traffic stats Message-ID: <1100021386.30716.48.camel@weka.localdomain> JOOI, are the traffic stats for classiccmp online anywhere? List traffic seems to be unusually low the last few days, and for a few weeks before that I'd been getting some messages anything up to a week late (although I think the latter's probably due to the disk problems in the classiccmp server). Be nice if I could crossref how many posts classiccmp thinks it's sent out to how many I've actually received here, just to check I'm not losing mail (I'm just not sure how much faith I have in yahoo, it being a free service!) cheers Jules From dan at ekoan.com Tue Nov 9 12:11:54 2004 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: VCF weekend in the Midwest Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041109124431.054978c0@mail.marcal.com> While many of you were enjoying the sights and sounds at VCF this weekend, I was driving a cargo van to pick up equipment from various places in the Midwest. First was a rescue in Indiana that Jack Rubin mentioned on the list. The owner reported some DEC equipment in his warehouse that needed to be hauled away before the building was demolished. It turns out that the warehouse is a huge condemned building that has a leaky and collapsing roof, is without heat or electric power, and is located in an, um, "socio-economically challenged" neighborhood. From there I pulled out two racks: one with a DEC 11/34 and another with some distribution panels. The third rack, with a tape drive, was too heavy for just the warehouse owner and me to load into the van. From that setup I also left behind two RP06 disk drives. In another part of the warehouse was another set of three racks -- a PDP 8/e and three RK05 drives. We pulled the CPU and left the rest. I also pulled out two VT52s and two VT100s, along with some RSTS manuals and magtapes. I left behind half a dozen DECwriter printing terminals. Before anyone gets too excited about what's left, be aware that this stuff is not in very good condition. The warehouse roof is in poor condition and the building is very drafty. Everything was dirty, damp to the touch and rusting. None of the equipment is anywhere near working condition -- it's been sitting there for at least 10 years, suffering the ravages of weather, temperature extremes and rodents. Second rescue was from an electronics surplus place about two hours drive from the first warehouse. From there I pulled a MicroPDP-11, an RX02, a MINC-23 on a rolling cart, a DEC GIGI, an Osborne luggable and a TI Silent 700. I know the last two items got wet, but the others look in much better shape than the equipment from the first warehouse. Photos upon request. Third rescue, to me, was the best: I now have a working Hewlett-Packard 9831A desktop computer. This machine uses the BASIC language, has a single-line LED display and accepts most of the 9825 interfaces. I know Tony has one of these, but I'm not sure if anyone else does. They only appeared in the HP catalog for one year and are extremely uncommon. I wrote a bunch of software on these computers for an HP VAR in 1981 or so, but I haven't seen a 9831 since then. The machine I have now even has the floppy drive ROM cartridge, so I can hook up eight-inch disc drives (9885M plus up to three 9885S) to it as well. So, while hunting mainly for HP gear, in the last few months I've ended up with the following DEC CPUs: PDP 8/A PDP 8/e MicroPDP-11 (two) PDP 11/34 GIGI The earliest DEC machine I ever used was an 11/70, so I may be looking for help in the future to try and restore these machines to operation. Cheers, Dan From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Nov 9 12:31:38 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: More Items for Museum Message-ID: <00aa01c4c68a$5b158520$0a406b43@66067007> Picked up the following items on Saturday (11/6) and it was a lot of work for two old men as this System/34 is big and heavy. IBM System/34 5340, IBM 5211-2 High Speed Printer 5211, MAI/IBM 548 Punch card Interpreter with one programming board, 3-IBM 5251 Terminals, 2-IBM Keyboards, 44-Manuals, 11-8" Diskettes with Diagnostic on them, Datacard cabinet with several card decks inside (compilers, programs, etc.) From fernande at internet1.net Tue Nov 9 12:36:01 2004 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: VCF weekend in the Midwest In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041109124431.054978c0@mail.marcal.com> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20041109124431.054978c0@mail.marcal.com> Message-ID: <41910E11.9090104@internet1.net> Dan Veeneman wrote: > First was a rescue in Indiana that Jack Rubin > mentioned on the list. I thought that stuff was long gone! Jack had originally said that it needed to be picked up that weekend, becasue the building was coming down. Oh well, you can probably give it a better home than I can. > Second rescue was from an electronics surplus place about > two hours drive from the first warehouse. From there I pulled > a MicroPDP-11, an RX02, a MINC-23 on a rolling cart, a DEC > GIGI, an Osborne luggable and a TI Silent 700. I know the last > two items got wet, but the others look in much better shape than > the equipment from the first warehouse. Photos upon request. I wondered if that stuff had been picked up by anybody. Do you mind sharing how much you paid? I assume it wasn't free, since Pembletons is a surplus shop. This is where I got my Vax3400 for $30. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From aek at spies.com Tue Nov 9 12:51:13 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: VCF weekend in the Midwest Message-ID: <20041109185113.43BC34437@spies.com> > We pulled the CPU and left the rest. -- Hopefully, you took the cable that was connecting the 8/E to the first RK05. It is a very difficult to find part, second only to the cable that goes from a TD8E to a TU56. d From gksloane at hotmail.com Mon Nov 1 17:51:07 2004 From: gksloane at hotmail.com (Gary Sloane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: HP2100/HP1000 Message-ID: I'm looking for an HP2100/A, 2100/S, or 2100/MX. I have HP 1000/F (aka the 2117) to trade - know anyone interested? There's a picture of one of my 2117s attached; I also have one listed on eBay right now... Gary From wgriffa at yahoo.com Tue Nov 2 15:20:04 2004 From: wgriffa at yahoo.com (Walter G) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: MK5017 Clock schematic Message-ID: <20041102212004.39354.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com> I scanned this schematic from my Heathkit Clock manual hopefully it may help. My Heathkit clock died and I am in need of a MK5017, do you know where I can get any? Thanks, Walter. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com From malihie at yahoo.ca Wed Nov 3 11:09:37 2004 From: malihie at yahoo.ca (malihi elmostapha) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: sony disk drive Message-ID: <20041103170937.51282.qmail@web41309.mail.yahoo.com> Dear M Marder, I need your help… I have problem with my Floppy drive: Sony, Model MP-F52-00D, This floppy drive is connecting to our machine (not PC). What model it is possible to replace by? Is it possible to use the new floppy drive 1.44? How? Thanks for your advice Best Regards, Mostapha.. --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals From malihie at yahoo.ca Wed Nov 3 11:14:06 2004 From: malihie at yahoo.ca (malihi elmostapha) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: Sony floppy drive Message-ID: <20041103171406.21461.qmail@web41304.mail.yahoo.com> Hello M Duell, I have problem with my Floppy drive: Sony, Model MP-F52W-00D, This floppy drive is connecting to our machine (not PC). What model it is possible to replace by? Is it possible to use the new floppy drive 1.44? How? Thanks for your advice Best Regards, Mostapha.. --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals From fgoering at charter.net Thu Nov 4 23:09:28 2004 From: fgoering at charter.net (frankg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: Programming 1702 EPROMs, ProLog Programmer question Message-ID: <000601c4c2f5$a0f4f280$6401a8c0@any> Hi Joe, doyou still have a manual on the pro-log 980. i need a copy, let me know, Frank From edward at groenenberg.net Sat Nov 6 09:43:43 2004 From: edward at groenenberg.net (Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: For swap : Biomation logic recorder Message-ID: <418CF12F.92617E2C@groenenberg.net> Anybody interested in a Gould Biomation model 1650-D logic recorder? I comes with 11 probes, but no manual. On top of the unit is a model 116 display AY control mounted. Picture of this device at 'www.groenenberg.net/pic/MSC/biomation.jpg' I prefer to swap it for some PDP related stuff btw. Ed -- edward@groenenberg.net | Collector of PDP-11's. http://www.groenenberg.net | Politici zijn vieze oplichters. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is crap. '97 TL1000S From paulrsm at buckeye-express.com Fri Nov 5 10:25:23 2004 From: paulrsm at buckeye-express.com (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: HP scanner: doubly on-topic! Message-ID: <418BA973.73C4EEEB@buckeye-express.com> See http://www.access-one.com/rjn/computer/hp9190a.html The HP9195A is a ScanJet Plus that requires an HP interface card. It is not a parallel port connection. -- Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA From elmo at mailster.com Sat Nov 6 13:47:51 2004 From: elmo at mailster.com (E M) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: PDP-11 Rack & Pet Available Monday in Los Angeles Message-ID: Greetings. I have a PDP-11 H960 rack (empty BA23's) and some Fujitsu Eagles in storage, which must be removed Monday. There are also some Pets, I think, which are 2nd generation models, i.e. 8032's. It is time for most of this gear to find new homes. I could use a helping hand on Monday to load the truck. First on scene gets first dibs on goodies, and I'll drive the truck reasonable distances from LAX. If you are interested, please contact me immediately with a phone number. Regards, Eliot ---------------------------------------------- Mailblocks - A Better Way to Do Email http://about.mailblocks.com/info From geist1122 at juno.com Sat Nov 6 23:00:08 2004 From: geist1122 at juno.com (geist1122@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: varian boards Message-ID: <20041106.210019.22457.57332@webmail18.nyc.untd.com> Hi; I have the following circuit boards for a varian data Machines, and would like to know what each board is -- and what it does -- and what computer they go in (model) like a 620 or what ???? DM 103 -- CORE bOARD i HAVE 2 DM 104 5 DM 106 2 DM 108 3 DM 109 1 DM 111 1 DM 112 1 DM 113 1 DM 119 9 DM 120 1 DM 121 1 DM 122 1 DM 123 1 DM 124 2 DM 126 2 Thanks Marty Geist, my email address is --- geist1122@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ Juno Platinum $9.95. Juno SpeedBand $14.95. Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com! Look for special offers at Best Buy stores. From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Sun Nov 7 01:17:26 2004 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: complete Imagen 8/300 system available Message-ID: <200411070717.CAA22010@ss10.danlan.com> I have a complete Imagen 8/300 system with Ethernet interface available. It includes a like-new CX engine (it was on only its second toner cartridge when I stored it away), spare parts, CX maintenance manuals, etc. Because of the weight this pretty much has to be a pick up in Gloucester, MA. Dan Lanciani ddl@danlan.*com From allan.valvano at paymedia.net Mon Nov 8 10:03:35 2004 From: allan.valvano at paymedia.net (Allan Valvano) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: Sony SMC-70 Message-ID: <000a01c4c5ac$820af720$800101df@hq.paymedia.net> Jeff - Do you still have these computers? Allan Valvano From bbrown at harpercollege.edu Mon Nov 8 10:33:33 2004 From: bbrown at harpercollege.edu (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: OT (probably): HP T500, HPUX and multiple CPUs In-Reply-To: <1098995664.11633.132.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1098995664.11633.132.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: I run a T600 (upgraded form a T520), which is the follow-on from the T500. yes, it is possible to disable a cpu from within the SP (service processor). You'd need to control-B (from the console) into the SP and navigate the screens to see if any of your cpu/memory boards are disabled. Let me know if you need more help. -Bob >Actually I'm not quite sure how old the machine is - maybe it is ten >years old now and so on topic just... > >Anyhow, are there any experts out there who know if a specific version >of HPUX is needed to run with SMP support on an HP 9000 T500? > >We've got a 6-CPU T500 at the museum with HPUX 11.xx on it, but >according to the status LEDs it's just running everything on the one CPU >with the other 5 sitting idle. > >Possibilities that spring to mind: > >a) as above, it's a version / installation issue > >b) it's a licensing thing and there's no way of using standard HPUX >media on a multi-CPU machine without paying HP lots of money (boo!) > >c) the machine or HPUX is a bit funny in the way it handles multiple >CPUs and we need force processes to run on a specific CPU via some >command, rather than it being transparently handled by the CPU > >d) user stupidity (none of us really know much about the machine and nor >are we HPUX experts) > >Option d would probably be preferable - we can always learn :) Option >b's obviously the least desirable and would result in us looking at >Linux for the machine I think! > >Anyone worked with these beasts before and know offhand what the problem >might be? (we've got HPUX 11 media by the way; but as stated maybe not a >version that's truly compatible with a multi-CPU machine) > >Being able to force stuff to run on a specific CPU from a shell would >actually be beneficial, as I have an idea to do a bit of distributed >raytracing on the machine for giggles (6 CPUs is good, but 90MHz each >IIRC is less so :-) > >ta > >Jules -- bbrown@harpercollege.edu #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Tue Nov 9 13:14:33 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: How to home make a battery for HP25/c/21 Message-ID: <96D657A4-3283-11D9-A788-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> 1. Obtain radio shack part numbers 23-149 1000mAh Nicad Batteries (2), 270-382A 2 cell AA battery holder. 2. Snip off the snap end, the plastic is a little brittle, so I used Diagonal Cutters to cut it off right where the flat plastic that holds the snaps 3 Snip off the spring from the snap part and place it in the bottom of the cell holder. 4 Install the two NiCad batteries one with positive showing, one with negative showing 5 Insert the assembly into the back of the calculator, you will have to compress the springs to get it to fit. The positive battery should touch the left terminal in the calculator as you are holding the calculator with the terminals up (upside-down), viewing the back. I use a slip of cardboard to close the back cut into a rectangle with one tab on one side and 2 tabs that fit into the slots on the calculator. An X-Creditcard or somthing of that same thickness would work better. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 9 12:46:34 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: VCF weekend in the Midwest In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041109124431.054978c0@mail.marcal.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041109134634.007a1100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:11 PM 11/9/04 -0500, you wrote: >Third rescue, to me, was the best: I now have a working >Hewlett-Packard 9831A desktop computer. This machine uses >the BASIC language, has a single-line LED display and accepts >most of the 9825 interfaces. I know Tony has one of these, but >I'm not sure if anyone else does. I have one and I know of two others, not including yours. The 9831 is basicly a HP 9825 with ROMs from the HP 9830. You can actually unplug the 9830 ROMs, plug in 9825 ROMs and it becomes a 9825 again. One HP engineer that I talked to said that they used to keep both sets of ROMs on hand and switch them at will. One of the really nice things about it is that it had all the optional 9830 ROMs built in. See for more info. > They only appeared in the HP >catalog for one year and are extremely uncommon. Yeap, it was only listed in the 1978 catalog. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 9 13:35:16 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: HP2100/HP1000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041109143516.00976350@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> You need to change your listing, that computer is not fully intact. You're missing the Floating Point Unit. (ALL F-series had them.) It's a separate chassis. It's the top unit in this picture. . Joe At 03:51 PM 11/1/04 -0800, you wrote: >I'm looking for an HP2100/A, 2100/S, or 2100/MX. I have HP 1000/F (aka the >2117) to trade - know anyone interested? There's a picture of one of my >2117s attached; I also have one listed on eBay right now... > >Gary > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 9 13:40:23 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: Programming 1702 EPROMs, ProLog Programmer question In-Reply-To: <000601c4c2f5$a0f4f280$6401a8c0@any> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041109144023.0079e600@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Here you go. Thanks to Al Kossow. . Joe At 11:09 PM 11/4/04 -0600, you wrote: >Hi Joe, doyou still have a manual on the pro-log 980. i need a copy, let me know, Frank > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 9 13:43:47 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: varian boards In-Reply-To: <20041106.210019.22457.57332@webmail18.nyc.untd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041109144347.00971a00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Look here. . Again thanks go to Al Kossow. Joe At 05:00 AM 11/7/04 +0000, you wrote: > >Hi; >I have the following circuit boards for a varian data Machines, and would like to know what each board is -- and what it does -- and what computer they go in (model) like a 620 or what ???? >DM 103 -- CORE bOARD i HAVE 2 >DM 104 5 >DM 106 2 >DM 108 3 >DM 109 1 >DM 111 1 >DM 112 1 >DM 113 1 >DM 119 9 >DM 120 1 >DM 121 1 >DM 122 1 >DM 123 1 >DM 124 2 >DM 126 2 > >Thanks >Marty Geist, my email address is --- >geist1122@juno.com > >________________________________________________________________ >Juno Platinum $9.95. Juno SpeedBand $14.95. >Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com! >Look for special offers at Best Buy stores. > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 9 13:49:27 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: MORE Multibus!!1 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041109144927.00903900@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Yesterday I went back to the place where I found the two Flexowriters to see if I could fin ANY more parts for them. (Found one tape reel that mounts on the back of the Flexowriter. I didn't even know that they used one.) I was just there a few days ago but I took a good look around anyway. I found an intel Multibus chassis, about a dozen more cards including two bubble memory cards, FIVE Intel 86/380 computers (three are complete and supposed to be operable) and some kind of rackmount industrial computer with Multibus cards. I'm being deluged with Mulktibus stuff lately! Joe From paulpenn at knology.net Tue Nov 9 14:54:49 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul A. Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: Der Mouse success with Altair cassette audio References: <20041108141542.T70108@wilma.widomaker.com> Message-ID: <004e01c4c69e$5add4700$6401a8c0@ibm6go1addn6c0> Chuck wrote: > Gang - Hats off to Der Mouse for coming up with working code that > can convert a wav audio file to data. It imported into simh/altairZ80 > via the PTR device and saved onto an mbasic boot disk just fine and so > far runs. 22 Years ago I had to massage the TRS/80 basic code to > get it to work on MITS 8K basic and thankfully didn't have to do it > all over again! A fun adventure game (Altair flavor) saved. I missed the original message on this -- could someone re-post a link to this program? Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia From dan at ekoan.com Tue Nov 9 15:40:06 2004 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:34 2005 Subject: VCF weekend in the Midwest In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041109134634.007a1100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20041109124431.054978c0@mail.marcal.com> <3.0.6.32.20041109134634.007a1100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041109163300.05787a70@mail.marcal.com> At 01:46 PM 11/9/04, you wrote: >You can actually unplug the 9830 ROMs, plug in 9825 ROMs and it becomes a >9825 again. Have you done this? I'm not sure I'd want to risk it, but I have a bunch of 9825 machines -- some with full travel keyboards -- that would be nicer to use than the "chicklet" keyboard. > See for more info. Thanks for the link. I do have a plug-in ROM for the 9885 drives. The ROM is an HP 98218A and is marked "For Use in 9831A." I did put up some photos at www.decodesystems.com/hp9831.html Cheers, Dan From dan at ekoan.com Tue Nov 9 15:49:45 2004 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: VCF weekend in the Midwest In-Reply-To: <20041109185113.43BC34437@spies.com> References: <20041109185113.43BC34437@spies.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041109164841.05785850@mail.marcal.com> At 01:51 PM 11/9/04, you wrote: >Hopefully, you took the cable that was connecting the 8/E to >the first RK05. It is a very difficult to find part, second >only to the cable that goes from a TD8E to a TU56. Yes, it's an M993 that we pulled out of an RK05. I have some photos at www.decodesystems.com/pdp8e.html Cheers, Dan From mross666 at hotmail.com Tue Nov 9 15:46:30 2004 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: IBM System/34 available Message-ID: Folks, They keep coming... last week it was a System/38, this week a System/34. Two of them to be precise, in Ottawa, .ca. I'm down for one - but the recycler who is picking them up only wants to deal with both of them - he needs to recoup scrap value, plus pickup expenses. They're complete, working, with docs and disks. Any takers for the second machine? Someone local in NE USA / New England area would obviously help... Mike http://www.corestore.org From Pres at macro-inc.com Tue Nov 9 16:00:50 2004 From: Pres at macro-inc.com (Ed Kelleher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: HP2100/HP1000 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041109143516.00976350@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041109164247.02929dd0@192.168.0.1> At 02:35 PM 11/9/2004, you wrote: > You need to change your listing, that computer is not fully intact. > You're missing the Floating Point Unit. (ALL F-series had them.) It's a > separate chassis. It's the top unit in this picture. > . Seems to be missing some boards too. I went up to Charlotte the other day (the "big city" 90 miles up the road from me) to pick up a pair of Cipher tape drives I wanted. Did a little rooting around the guy's warehouse to help him "clear out some space". Found some stuff I probably could have lived without: an HP counter with Nixie tubes, a 0-4000v 0-50ma power supply, a Krown Research PortaPrinterPlus with keyboard and acoustic coupler, an HP64000 with a skillion spare boards, and ... an HP1000/F. After hearing Jay brag that the HP's were better than DEC's, I decided to get it too and see what the big hooraw was. It looked sort of bare on the inside, board population wise. And the boards looked on a par with the boards in my Iwatsu Omega IV telephone system. Nothing at all like a good solid quad with PDP11 board. But it did have the floating point unit below. I asked the guy and he said someone had called him on the phone about HP1000s and cleaned him out. I said, "Joe Rigon?" he said, "How'd you know?". He's everywhere! He's everywhere! :-) Anyway I still got it, at least for the blinken-light panel, and who knows, it might even "power on!". :-) Ed K. From dan at ekoan.com Tue Nov 9 16:09:38 2004 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: VCF weekend in the Midwest In-Reply-To: <41910E11.9090104@internet1.net> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20041109124431.054978c0@mail.marcal.com> <41910E11.9090104@internet1.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041109165114.05662c40@mail.marcal.com> At 01:36 PM 11/9/04, you wrote: >I thought that stuff was long gone! Jack had originally said that it >needed to be picked up that weekend, becasue the building was coming down. I was told the same thing and was unable to coordinate transportation. The deadline was extended and I was able to get everything together last weekend. > Oh well, you can probably give it a better home than I can. Don't despair too much. The jury is still out on whether this stuff is salvageable. >I wondered if that stuff had been picked up by anybody. Do you mind >sharing how much you paid? Gary's original message wasn't clear how things worked there, but after a few questions I figured it out. I did spend money inside the store on old manuals and ICs (74141s and C1702As, which are on-topic), but the hardware I listed was outside the building, next to a dumpster. According to the folks behind the counter, locals come by and drop off their old hardware next to that dumpster. So, anything out there is free for the taking. --Dan From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Nov 9 16:08:01 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: VCF weekend in the Midwest In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041109164841.05785850@mail.marcal.com> References: <20041109185113.43BC34437@spies.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20041109164841.05785850@mail.marcal.com> Message-ID: <20041109220801.GB24744@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Nov 09, 2004 at 04:49:45PM -0500, Dan Veeneman wrote: > At 01:51 PM 11/9/04, you wrote: > >Hopefully, you took the cable that was connecting the 8/E to > >the first RK05. It is a very difficult to find part, second > >only to the cable that goes from a TD8E to a TU56. > > Yes, it's an M993 that we pulled out of an RK05. That's what you want... same cable for an RKV11D, btw. I may have to fabricate one for myself - I have exactly one that came with my RKV11D, but I need another one for my RK8E. I know I have full-length dual-height proto cards, so I'm not hurting, but, of course, I'd rather find the real thing somewhere, cables or no. (of course I could always move the controller ends of the cables I have and leave the M993 in the first drive...) -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 09-Nov-2004 22:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -47.5 F (-44.2 C) Windchill -78.59 F (-61.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 11.5 kts Grid 037 Barometer 676.6 mb (10756 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 9 16:11:36 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: VCF weekend in the Midwest In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041109163300.05787a70@mail.marcal.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041109134634.007a1100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20041109124431.054978c0@mail.marcal.com> <3.0.6.32.20041109134634.007a1100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041109171136.008a1930@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:40 PM 11/9/04 -0500, you wrote: >At 01:46 PM 11/9/04, you wrote: >>You can actually unplug the 9830 ROMs, plug in 9825 ROMs and it becomes a >>9825 again. > >Have you done this? No. But if you look at the link that I gave you'll see exactly what I was told. It's an exact quote, I cut and pasted it from a message from one of the 9825/9831 designers. If they fit I won't worry about trying them. HP is good about making incompatible parts really incompatible. I'm not sure I'd want to risk it, but I have >a bunch of 9825 machines -- some with full travel keyboards -- that >would be nicer to use than the "chicklet" keyboard. You should be able to swap keyboards if you'd rather got that way. > >> See for more info. > >Thanks for the link. I do have a plug-in ROM for the 9885 drives. >The ROM is an HP 98218A and is marked "For Use in 9831A." Interesting! I was told that they didn't make any roms for the 9831 since all the 9830 ROMs were built in. I should look at my 9831. I've never done anything with it and it's buried. Joe > >I did put up some photos at www.decodesystems.com/hp9831.html > > >Cheers, > >Dan > > From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Nov 9 16:15:03 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: Replacing an A2000 battery In-Reply-To: <200411091648.LAA01960@wordstock.com> References: <200411091648.LAA01960@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, Bryan Pope wrote: > And thusly Dave Dunfield spake: >> >> Hi Bryan, >> >>> This one doesn't boot up. :( It starts up for a little bit, then the power >>> light flashes a # of times. I have googled for POST error messages but >>> could not find out what this meant. >> >> Go here: >> http://www.programmersheaven.com/zone20/cat268/3369.htm >> >> And download HARDWARE.ZIP - this contains HARDWARE.TIP which is a large >> text file that contains a lot of information about the startup LED flashes >> and screen colors. >> > > Dave, > > Thanks! But it looks like I have bad RAM... And there are *32* RAM > chips soldered onto this board. Eek. So should I be planning to desolder > all of the RAM, solder in IC sockets and then keep swapping out RAM until > I get farther in the boot process? > > Cheers, > > Bryan Pope > > Hi You need to find some way to test the RAMs individually. I usually find another board or machine that uses the same RAMs so I can swap them one at a time. Dwight From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 9 16:30:25 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: HP2100/HP1000 In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20041109164247.02929dd0@192.168.0.1> References: <3.0.6.32.20041109143516.00976350@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041109173025.0089c5f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:00 PM 11/9/04 -0500, you wrote: >At 02:35 PM 11/9/2004, you wrote: >> You need to change your listing, that computer is not fully intact. >> You're missing the Floating Point Unit. (ALL F-series had them.) It's a >> separate chassis. It's the top unit in this picture. >> . > >Seems to be missing some boards too. > >I went up to Charlotte the other day (the "big city" 90 miles up the road >from me) to pick up a pair of Cipher tape drives I wanted. >Did a little rooting around the guy's warehouse to help him "clear out some >space". Was that Joe Barkley? > >Found some stuff I probably could have lived without: an HP counter with >Nixie tubes, >a 0-4000v 0-50ma power supply, a Krown Research PortaPrinterPlus with >keyboard and acoustic coupler, an HP64000 with a skillion spare boards, and >... an HP1000/F. > >After hearing Jay brag that the HP's were better than DEC's, I decided to >get it too and see what the big hooraw was. > >It looked sort of bare on the inside, board population wise. >And the boards looked on a par with the boards in my Iwatsu Omega IV >telephone system. >Nothing at all like a good solid quad with PDP11 board. > >But it did have the floating point unit below. >I asked the guy and he said someone had called him on the phone about >HP1000s and cleaned him out. >I said, "Joe Rigon?" he said, "How'd you know?". He's everywhere! He's >everywhere! :-) LOL! YOu gotta be talking about Joe Barkley! I bug Joe about HP stuff everytime that I see him! I got a 1000 from him last year at the Orlando hamfest. Over the years I've bought a fair amount of test equipment from him plus HP calculators, HP-IL stuff, a couple of HP 3468s and more. Joe's a hell of a nice guy. But I'm to the point that I don't even have to look for HP 1000s any more. After you acquire a certain critical mass, similar systems just seems to find their way to you on their own! That's happened to me with DEC stuff, Tektronix systems, HP 1000s, and more recently with Intel Multibus stuff. > >Anyway I still got it, at least for the blinken-light panel, and who knows, >it might even "power on!". :-) Go for it! Take a look at . Al has a good selection of manuals for the HP 1000 posted there. A good place to start are with the memory manuals. Figure out which memory your's has then get the appropriate memory manual. Your memory is probably already configured but if it's not the manual will tell you how to do it. At the back of the manual is a simple memory test that you can punch in via the front panel. The test will test the CPU and memory and give you some blinking lights to look at. Next get all the pieces of the 1000 MEF Engr Ref manual and start figuring out what you have installed in it. We'll make an HP fan of you yet! Joe > >Ed K. > > From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Nov 9 16:56:32 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: HP2100/HP1000 In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20041109164247.02929dd0@192.168.0.1> References: <3.0.6.32.20041109143516.00976350@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041109174812.03b945f8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Ed Kelleher may have mentioned these words: [snip] >Found some stuff I probably could have lived without:...[snip]... >... an HP64000 with a skillion spare boards... I keep telling myself that I want to ditch my 64K, as I don't have much for it, and it's currently broken (keyboard now has some broken keys thanks to the daycare kiddies... :-( )... So all it's doing right now is taking up space & not being used, which is what I'd prefer. ... I have no software, no floppy drive (it's got a tape drive which is prolly nonfunctional, as I doubt it's been used in 15 years, if ever - it network booted) but the internal diags check out (well, as of 3 years ago they did) and the Moto 6800 pod. If I had the 6809 pod & a floppy drive with enough software to boot it, it would insure a lasting spot in my house. The 68K pod would be nice, too. (Other spare parts would be a plus as well...) Anyway... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From Pres at macro-inc.com Tue Nov 9 16:46:33 2004 From: Pres at macro-inc.com (Ed Kelleher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: HP2100/HP1000 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041109173025.0089c5f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20041109164247.02929dd0@192.168.0.1> <3.0.6.32.20041109143516.00976350@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041109174216.02adbca8@192.168.0.1> At 05:30 PM 11/9/2004, you wrote: > LOL! YOu gotta be talking about Joe Barkley! I bug Joe about HP stuff > everytime that I see him! I got a 1000 from him last year at the Orlando > hamfest. Over the years I've bought a fair amount of test equipment from > him plus HP calculators, HP-IL stuff, a couple of HP 3468s and more. > Joe's a hell of a nice guy. But I'm to the point that I don't even have > to look for HP 1000s any more. After you acquire a certain critical mass, > similar systems just seems to find their way to you on their own! That's > happened to me with DEC stuff, Tektronix systems, HP 1000s, and more > recently with Intel Multibus stuff. Yeah, it was Joe Barkley. He really did seem like a hell of a nice guy. He said he'd keep an eye out for me on HP1000 boards. He had a lot of HP test equipment and tons of Tektronix systems. Ed K. From aek at spies.com Tue Nov 9 17:38:08 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: varian boards Message-ID: <20041109233808.8CE4D4436@spies.com> >I have the following circuit boards for a varian data Machines, and would like to know what each board is This is pretty much a complete set for a 620i I have a copy of Vol 1 of the maint manual, which doesn't incl the schems. DM 103 matrix decoder 104 memory driver 106 memory timing & ctl 108 register card 109 processor control 1 110 processor control 2 111 processor control 3 112 processor control 4 113 teletype control 119 memory data card 120 ? 121 interrrupt trap 122 mul/div extd adr 123 pwr fail /restart 124 pri intr module 126 ? the name of the card should be on the etch From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Nov 9 17:47:36 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: HP2100/HP1000 In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20041109174216.02adbca8@192.168.0.1> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20041109164247.02929dd0@192.168.0.1> <3.0.6.32.20041109143516.00976350@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.2.0.9.2.20041109174216.02adbca8@192.168.0.1> Message-ID: <1100044056.31328.1.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-11-09 at 17:46 -0500, Ed Kelleher wrote: > Yeah, it was Joe Barkley. He really did seem like a hell of a nice guy. > He said he'd keep an eye out for me on HP1000 boards. > He had a lot of HP test equipment and tons of Tektronix systems. If he has any Tek XD88 install media, grab it :) (I don't know of a surviving copy anywhere) Same goes for (HP) Apollo Domain/OS ... From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Nov 9 17:50:47 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: VCF 7.0 Pictures Message-ID: <34953.127.0.0.1.1100044247.squirrel@127.0.0.1> Hello all, I've just posted pictures from VCF 7.0 on my website. The page isn't done yet as I've got to add descriptions to the images (should take a few days), but the pictures themselves are there if you'd like to take a look. http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcf7.shtml Please let me know if you have anything special you'd like me to mention about any of the pictures (links, names, description, etc.) or if you'd like me to email you high rez copies of anything. Thanks! -- Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 9 17:48:03 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: HP2100/HP1000 In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20041109174216.02adbca8@192.168.0.1> References: <3.0.6.32.20041109173025.0089c5f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.2.0.9.2.20041109164247.02929dd0@192.168.0.1> <3.0.6.32.20041109143516.00976350@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041109184803.0089e4b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:46 PM 11/9/04 -0500, Ed wrote: >At 05:30 PM 11/9/2004, you wrote: >> LOL! YOu gotta be talking about Joe Barkley! I bug Joe about HP stuff >> everytime that I see him! I got a 1000 from him last year at the Orlando >> hamfest. Over the years I've bought a fair amount of test equipment from >> him plus HP calculators, HP-IL stuff, a couple of HP 3468s and more. >> Joe's a hell of a nice guy. But I'm to the point that I don't even have >> to look for HP 1000s any more. After you acquire a certain critical mass, >> similar systems just seems to find their way to you on their own! That's >> happened to me with DEC stuff, Tektronix systems, HP 1000s, and more >> recently with Intel Multibus stuff. > >Yeah, it was Joe Barkley. He really did seem like a hell of a nice guy. >He said he'd keep an eye out for me on HP1000 boards. You should get him to watch for cables, manuals and periphals. They're a lot harder to find than the systems. The connector hoods on the cables are easy to spot. >He had a lot of HP test equipment and tons of Tektronix systems. > Joe was probably piled up with junk because they cancelled the Melbourne hamfest this year becuase of the hurricanes. (Melbourne got hit less than a week before the hamfest and most of the power was still out and there were still people living in the auditorium.) Melbourne is a big hamfest and the first one of the season here in Florida. I think it and the one in February in Orlando are the only ones that he comes to down here. Joe From aek at spies.com Tue Nov 9 17:59:56 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: HP2100/HP1000 Message-ID: <20041109235956.66434440B@spies.com> > Same goes for (HP) Apollo Domain/OS ... 10.4 is taken care of. Hopefully someone is taking care of the earlier cart and floppy versions. I've been bugging the person who was working on the NetBSD port to the DN3/4xxx series for the hardware info he was able to find but he's stopped replying to emails. Finding hardware info would be a good thing to archive as well. I'm still trying to find a Tek 8550 or DOS/50 software, or the distrib/diag floppies for the 856x From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 9 18:07:29 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: Bus(s) description website. Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041109190729.008f4a90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found this while prowling the net. It looks useful. Joe From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Nov 9 18:19:26 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: HP2100/HP1000 In-Reply-To: <20041109235956.66434440B@spies.com> References: <20041109235956.66434440B@spies.com> Message-ID: <1100045966.31325.9.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-11-09 at 15:59 -0800, Al Kossow wrote: > > Same goes for (HP) Apollo Domain/OS ... > > 10.4 is taken care of. Hopefully someone is taking care of the > earlier cart and floppy versions. Hmm... wonder which systems that'll run on. Who's looking after archival? For the purpose of the classiccmp archives, we've got quite a few of the manuals, should anyone on this side of the pond ever need to look anything up, borrow for scanning etc. I still need another darn domain keyboard though, or someone with more smarts than me to build a PIC interface between the system and a keyboard from something else. > I've been bugging the person who was working on the NetBSD port > to the DN3/4xxx series for the hardware info he was able to find > but he's stopped replying to emails. Finding hardware info would > be a good thing to archive as well. Hmm, our machines are both 400t's. I'm tempted to get Apollo stuff added to the 'wanted' list on our website though. I'll keep you in mind in case anything ever turns up! cheers Jules From vcf at siconic.com Tue Nov 9 18:31:27 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: VCF weekend in the Midwest In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041109124431.054978c0@mail.marcal.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, Dan Veeneman wrote: > Third rescue, to me, was the best: I now have a working > Hewlett-Packard 9831A desktop computer. This machine uses > the BASIC language, has a single-line LED display and accepts > most of the 9825 interfaces. I know Tony has one of these, but > I'm not sure if anyone else does. They only appeared in the HP I've got a 9830B. > catalog for one year and are extremely uncommon. I wrote a > bunch of software on these computers for an HP VAR in 1981 or so, > but I haven't seen a 9831 since then. The machine I have now even > has the floppy drive ROM cartridge, so I can hook up eight-inch disc > drives (9885M plus up to three 9885S) to it as well. Mine came with an Infotek (I believe that's the manufacturer) 8" drive with the same form factor and styling of the computer so it fits on top quite nicely (between the computer and the printer). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From kurtk7 at visi.com Tue Nov 9 18:57:16 2004 From: kurtk7 at visi.com (Kurt K) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: Help, I can't get emails Message-ID: <010001c4c6c0$3b806ff0$0200000a@goliath> Hello, I need a bit of help. I had a problem with my ISP and my mailbox got shut down for three days. After this, I am having problems getting my daily messages for either cctalk or cctech. I tried resubscribing but those requests bounced. I emailed mailman-owner@classiccmp.org but was told my email was rejected, please email mailman-owner@classiccmp.org. If someone might be able to help, please respond to my email. Please feel free to forward this to the appropriate admin for resolution. Thank you for any help you can provide, Kurt From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 9 19:14:53 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: Sony floppy drive In-Reply-To: <20041103171406.21461.qmail@web41304.mail.yahoo.com> from "malihi elmostapha" at Nov 3, 4 12:14:06 pm Message-ID: > > Hello M Duell, You mean A. R. Duell, surely? You have posted to a large, international, mailing list... > I have problem with my Floppy drive: Sony, Model MP-F52W-00D, This > floppy drive is connecting to our machine (not PC). What is the machine (I would guess an HP something-or-other) that you're using it with, and what's the controller? (if it is an HP, what drive unit does it come out of?) > What model it is possible to replace by? I don't know of anything that is directly compatible with it. The first problem would be the interface pinout. I can't remember if this drive has the 26 pin connecotr or the 34 pin one, but even in the latter case there are liklely to be a few differences from the PC drive -- if it's the 34 pin one I thin it is, there were _many_ options selected by soldered jumpers on the drive PCB, including things like putting the power input on the odd-numbered pins of the 34 pin connector. A more serious problem is that these Sony drives rotate at 600 rpm, twice the speed of a PC drive. You would need to either speed up the PC drive or modify the controller (and maybe the driver software). What is wrong with the existing drive? It may seem to be a strange idea, but thse drives can often be _repaired_. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 9 19:32:12 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: Replacing an A2000 battery In-Reply-To: <200411091648.LAA01960@wordstock.com> from "Bryan Pope" at Nov 9, 4 11:48:32 am Message-ID: > Thanks! But it looks like I have bad RAM... And there are *32* RAM > chips soldered onto this board. Eek. So should I be planning to desolder > all of the RAM, solder in IC sockets and then keep swapping out RAM until > I get farther in the boot process? One obvious comment. 'Bad RAM' means that the CPU couldn't read the same value that it wrote. This _might_ be a RAM chip, it might be a RAM controller problem, it might be a corroded trace to the RAM or to the controller, or.... I'd want to do some more tests before blindly swapping out RAM chips. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 9 19:36:59 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: VCF weekend in the Midwest In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041109163300.05787a70@mail.marcal.com> from "Dan Veeneman" at Nov 9, 4 04:40:06 pm Message-ID: > > At 01:46 PM 11/9/04, you wrote: > >You can actually unplug the 9830 ROMs, plug in 9825 ROMs and it becomes a ^^^^ You mean 9831, I think. The 9830 is a very different machine (I have both, I also have full schematics of both). > >9825 again. > > Have you done this? I'm not sure I'd want to risk it, but I have I haven't. but I am _certain_ the machines are otherwise identical (well, apart from the keycaps, there are half a dozen differnces in the key labelling, but the keuboards are electircally identical). Of course the later 9825s (-T and something else) have the 32K RAM/ROM board and maybe another 32K RAM board, and don't have the system ROM cartridge in the side. You can't turn those into a 9831. > a bunch of 9825 machines -- some with full travel keyboards -- that > would be nicer to use than the "chicklet" keyboard. I've never sene a 9831 with the full keyboard. You can swap the chicklet and full keyboards (they are electrically the same), but as I mentioned there are some labelling differences. -tony From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Nov 9 20:17:51 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: Help, I can't get emails In-Reply-To: <010001c4c6c0$3b806ff0$0200000a@goliath> References: <010001c4c6c0$3b806ff0$0200000a@goliath> Message-ID: <200411100223.VAA05139@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Hello, I need a bit of help. I had a problem with my ISP and my > mailbox got shut down for three days. After this, I am having > problems getting my daily messages for either cctalk or cctech. I'm not surprised. The list software is rather broken; after sufficient bounces, it suspends your subscription and sends you a token you can use to reenable it. Problem is, this token expires after three days, but it waits a week before sending you another one. This leaves a four-day window during which you are, on the surface, helpless. Fortunately you're not entirely helpless. When I've run into this, I've found that unsubscribing and then immediately resubscribing clears the problem. (Or, rather, the symptom; the *problem* is actually that the list maintainer chose list software that has badly designed bounce processing. In my case this is compounded because the list accepts syntactically erroneous mail and passes along in its syntactically erroneous form, then mistakes my mailer's rejection of such messages for an indication that there's something wrong at _my_ end.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From vcf at siconic.com Tue Nov 9 20:54:08 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: AT&T XPC Tutor? Message-ID: One of the very few goodies (I rarely partake in the stuff that comes through the VCF, preferring the attendees to get the good scores, if they can get to it before Hans) I ended up with from the VCF (thanks, Stan!) is an AT&T "XPC Tutor". It's basically a microprocessor trainer of some sort, circa 1986. The main CPU(?) inside is a very odd chip labeled thusly: AT&T M T7102-NC 11 86 77 I thought at first this must be a Hobbit chip but it's too early (assuming "11 86" is the date code, which would seem likely based on the date codes of all the other ICs) and nothing comes back from Google. Does anyone have any idea what this might be? The other interesting thing about this trainer is that it has a 6809 in the middle of the PCB, and it has 6 serial ports (or at least 6 DB25 connectors with several wignal lines each) poking out the back. I'll post a picture if it'll help jog a memory. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Nov 9 20:57:33 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: Looking for large number of recent manuals ($$$) Message-ID: I haven't posted a bounty in a while, so here's a big list of manuals I am in need of for a client. I'll pay $10 each plus postage. Please contact me directly if you have any at . Thanks! 1) AG Group, Inc. "WatchPoint 1.0 Manual," May 1999. 2) Check Point Software Technologies Ltd., "Check Point FireWall - Technical Overview, Version 4.0," April 1999. 3) Cisco Systems, Inc., "FlowCollector Overview, Chapter 2," undated. 4) Cisco Systems, Inc., NetFlow FlowCollector Overview, Chapter 1," undated. 5) Cisco Systems, Inc. Overview of the NetFlow Analyzer," Copyright 1989-1998 6) Cisco Systems, Inc. "Release Notes for NetFlow FlowCollector, Release 1.0" September 1997. 7) Cisco Systems, Inc. "Using the FlowAnalyzer Display Module, Chapter 3," undated 8) NetScout Systems, Inc. "NetScout Intelligent Probes, End-to-End Monitoring of LANs, WANs, and Switched LANs for Distributed Networks," Copyright 1997 9) Network Associates, Inc. "SnifferPRO 98 by Network Associates, Expert Network Analysis for Optimal PErformance," Copyright 1998. 10) Network General, "Expert Sniffer Network Analyzer Operations, Release 4.5," pp. 1-3 through 1-7, 7-3 through 7-26, 6-62 through 6-75, Jan. 1995 11) Network General Corporation, "Managing WAN Technologies for Maximum Internetwork Performance, a Network Visibility Guide," Copyright 1996 12) Network General Corporation, "An Introduction to the Total Network Visibility Architecture, a Network Visibility Guide," Copyright 1995. 13) Novel NetWare, Network Computer Products, "LANalyzer for Windows 2.1 User's Guide, Chapter 5," pp. 75-103, March 1994. 14) Precision Guesswork Product Page: "LANWatch 32 Network Analyzer For Windows 95/NT, Unlocking the Complexity of Network Analysis," June 4, 1998 Update. 15) "Sniffer Network Analyzer Ethernet - Seven-layer expert analysis of 10/100 Mbps Ethernet segments," Network Associates, Inc. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 9 22:03:36 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: VCF weekend in the Midwest In-Reply-To: References: <6.1.2.0.2.20041109124431.054978c0@mail.marcal.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041109230336.009a41e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:31 PM 11/9/04 -0800, you wrote: >On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, Sellam wrote: > >Mine came with an Infotek (I believe that's the manufacturer) 8" drive >with the same form factor and styling of the computer so it fits on top >quite nicely (between the computer and the printer). Pictures! We want pictures! IIRC I have some Infotek cards in my 9830. I also have some in a couple of IPCs and in a couple of the 9000/200s. I once saw an Infotek ROM for the 9845 on E-bay. I should have bought it but it was located in the UK and shipping and payment was a hassle. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 9 21:59:45 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: HP2100/HP1000 In-Reply-To: <1100045966.31325.9.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <20041109235956.66434440B@spies.com> <20041109235956.66434440B@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041109225945.00793190@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:19 AM 11/10/04 +0000, you wrote: >Hmm, our machines are both 400t's. I'm tempted to get Apollo stuff added >to the 'wanted' list on our website though. I'll keep you in mind in >case anything ever turns up! Too bad you're not in this area (Florida). I have a crap load of Apollos (all kinds) that need a home. Sorry no docs and no disks but they may have SW on their drives. Joe From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Nov 9 22:10:39 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: HP2100/HP1000 References: <5.2.0.9.2.20041109164247.02929dd0@192.168.0.1><3.0.6.32.20041109143516.00976350@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><5.2.0.9.2.20041109174216.02adbca8@192.168.0.1> <1100044056.31328.1.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <005301c4c6db$3e0578e0$9a88fea9@screamer> I've got Domain/OS media (and a working node...). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jules Richardson" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 6:47 PM Subject: Re: HP2100/HP1000 > On Tue, 2004-11-09 at 17:46 -0500, Ed Kelleher wrote: >> Yeah, it was Joe Barkley. He really did seem like a hell of a nice guy. >> He said he'd keep an eye out for me on HP1000 boards. >> He had a lot of HP test equipment and tons of Tektronix systems. > > If he has any Tek XD88 install media, grab it :) (I don't know of a > surviving copy anywhere) > > Same goes for (HP) Apollo Domain/OS ... > > From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Nov 9 22:19:56 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: IBM System/34 available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > They keep coming... last week it was a System/38, this week a System/34. Two > of them to be precise, in Ottawa, .ca. I mean, what the hell is going on? Big old machines have been pouring out of the woodwork for the past few months. I don't have an S/34 (eventually - they aren't super rare), but frankly, I am tapped in the time and space department with goodies coming in, so I will have to pass it up. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Nov 9 22:23:38 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: HP2100/HP1000 In-Reply-To: <005301c4c6db$3e0578e0$9a88fea9@screamer> Message-ID: > I've got Domain/OS media (and a working node...). I have a DN 10000 (the big machine, just pre-HP) that is on the "never get around to" list, so someone could probably talk me out of it cheap. Sorry, it is too big to ship (from Carmel, NY). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From fernande at internet1.net Wed Nov 10 00:16:54 2004 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: VCF weekend in the Midwest In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041109165114.05662c40@mail.marcal.com> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20041109124431.054978c0@mail.marcal.com> <41910E11.9090104@internet1.net> <6.1.2.0.2.20041109165114.05662c40@mail.marcal.com> Message-ID: <4191B256.70207@internet1.net> Dan Veeneman wrote: > Gary's original message wasn't clear how things worked there, > but after a few questions I figured it out. I did spend money inside > the store on old manuals and ICs (74141s and C1702As, which > are on-topic), but the hardware I listed was outside the building, > next to a dumpster. According to the folks behind the counter, > locals come by and drop off their old hardware next to that > dumpster. So, anything out there is free for the taking. Free! Wow, that's great! What did they have inside computer related, anything? Last time I was there they had an IBM System 36 and a few HP parts, some Apple // stuff and a few Macs, and various PC's that were plain garbage by even my standards. I've been meaning to get back down, but just haven't had the time for a potentially wasted trip. They don't seem to know much about computer equipment. In fact, I think they even stated that to me at one time. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From purchasing at bouldersecuritycenter.com Tue Nov 9 18:34:14 2004 From: purchasing at bouldersecuritycenter.com (purchasing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: Nuclear Data minicomputer & more! Message-ID: <000701c4c6bd$076b2f00$a97ba8c0@IAD3445DEN.den0.cbeyond.net> Hi Tom; Do you still have the mini computer and is it for sale. my email is : Geist1122@ Juno.com Thanks Marty Geist From drb at msu.edu Tue Nov 9 18:32:44 2004 From: drb at msu.edu (Dennis Boone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: PDP-11/73 questions Message-ID: <200411100032.iAA0WjDT003315@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> I found an OEM 11/73 at Salvage this morning. It was built by Netcom. I'm trying to identify a few boards that are in it. Wonder if anyone can help? There's a pair of double-width boards marked KHV1, one says "COMMS CHIPCARD", the other says "DMA CARD". The boards are connected by a wide ribbon cable. The latter has a handwritten tape label which says "Modified 422 / DTR tied active / provides xmit clks". I take this to mean this is some type of RS-422 interface, but can't find any notes about it online. The other item (two of them, actually, identical) has virtually no identifying markings. It's a quad width board, marked "(C) Orange, CA 92665". The reverse has a small icon of a whale, and says "MOEBI QUICK". There may be text under then handles, but they're essentially riveted onto the board. In the center of the back edge of the board, there's a wide ribbon cable connector. Multiport serial boards perhaps? I believe this was probably a Merit SCP machine (node CES1), for anyone who was around educational networking in Michigan over 15 years ago. There's a board in the machine which is definitely a custom item, marked "MFV (C) 1984 UMNET", which I'm sure was developed by the U of Michigan/Merit folks. The latter appears to have its own processor, EPROMs, etc. The other boards in the machine are the CPU, and a DEC 128k RAM board. Images (warning: LARGE, about 3 MB each) are at: http://yagi.h-net.msu.edu/img_1282.jpg (quad board) http://yagi.h-net.msu.edu/img_1284.jpg (double board, COMMS) http://yagi.h-net.msu.edu/img_1286.jpg (double board, DMA) Any assistance would be much appreciated. Dennis Boone From g-wright at att.net Tue Nov 9 19:03:49 2004 From: g-wright at att.net (g-wright@att.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: looking for Print set for a DEC TE-16 tape drive Message-ID: <111020040103.19871.419168F500012ECB00004D9F21602807489B0809079D99D309@att.net> Hi all Does anyone have one of these or know a web source. any version. I'm still looking for PDP 11/60 Processor manuals also. Thanks, Jerry From JMeyer101 at aol.com Tue Nov 9 21:29:48 2004 From: JMeyer101 at aol.com (JMeyer101@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: Intellec 4 manuals Message-ID: <126.4f982e3e.2ec2e52c@aol.com> A couple months ago I picked up a copy of a copy of a "preliminary edition" of the Intellec 4 manual. This copy is dated 1973. Unfortunately, it is missing two pages and two pages are really hard to read. The missing pages are 5-5 and 5-6 (I believe they are front and back of one sheet). The hard to read pages are 5-8, and 3-18. If anyone out there has a manual and can make a copy of the pages, I'd really appreciate it. I would be happy to pay for reproduction costs and mailing costs (a scan of the pages and emailing would be even better). Thanks, Jeff From GOOI at oce.nl Wed Nov 10 03:49:37 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: looking for Print set for a DEC TE-16 tape drive Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A011133A7@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Check here: http://www.mainecoon.com/classiccmp/TE16/ These files are multi-page TIF format. You can read these TIF files with the "Kodak Imaging" viewer available in Windows 9x .... Click Start -> Programs -> Accessories -> Imaging (IIRC). I have scanned these TIFs, but have sent CD-ROMs to a few people on this list. They said that they would convert them into PDF files. *If* that is done, you might get an other link to the PDF versions. - Henk, PA8PDP. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of g-wright@att.net > Sent: woensdag 10 november 2004 2:04 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: looking for Print set for a DEC TE-16 tape drive > > Hi all > > Does anyone have one of these or know a web source. > any version. > > I'm still looking for PDP 11/60 Processor manuals also. > > Thanks, Jerry From I.Savvidis at cmc.ase.gr Wed Nov 10 05:09:55 2004 From: I.Savvidis at cmc.ase.gr (Savvidis Ioannis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: "Eagle" CPM machine, all-in-one, w/manuals needs a home Message-ID: <241091654FA6D81189430002A5874BA20A061B@cmcserver.cmc.ase.gr> Hi Bill. I'd be interested if it's still available. Kind regards, John -----Original Message----- From: Bill Pileggi [mailto:wpileggi@juno.com] Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 5:58 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: "Eagle" CPM machine, all-in-one, w/manuals needs a home A friend has an Eagle all-in-one machine that runs CPM. 8080 or Z-80, 64K RAM, 2 floppy disk drives. 1 original, 1 copy of manual. Software? Sort of resembles Radio Shack model 3 - monitor, keyboard and drives all in one case. Working status unknown - I only read through the manual - it's in his storage room. Located in PA. 19001 weight ~30 pounds? Bill ________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! From allain at panix.com Wed Nov 10 08:26:03 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: PDP-11/73 questions References: <200411100032.iAA0WjDT003315@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> Message-ID: <000901c4c731$389f37a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Images (warning: LARGE, about 3 MB each) are at: > http://yagi.h-net.msu.edu/img_1282.jpg (quad board) With the compression rates I've been getting you could store a 15 Megapixel image in 3MB. Your images look like <4 Mpx. You should make some effort to find a new compression method. FWIW to the other listers, his chip numbers are quite legible in the image, with a couple stamped over. just my 0.8? John A. From fm.arnold at gmx.net Wed Nov 10 09:47:00 2004 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: Nice PDP-Stuff available from Michigan State University Message-ID: I saw this in the usenet in alt.sys.pdp11, and I am unfortunately too far away to get it myself... Anyone here? Frank >************** First Message ************* >Greetings from Michigan State University > >I've got the following group of stuff set to go to salvage and have no >idea of the value (if any) that they have anymore. Any information would >be appreciated. > >DEC PDP 11/93 - RSX11M+ > TK-50 TAPE DRIVE (1) > MAXTOR RD-54 DRIVES (2) > M3106 - 4 LINE ASYNC CARD (2) > M3107 - DHQ11-M ASYNC MUX (1) > M7516 - Q-BUS TO ETHERNET ADAPTOR (1) > M7555 - RD DISK CONT BD F4/D1,DUAL (1) > M8991 (1) > M9058 - RQDX2,3 CABLE PADDLE CARD (1) > M9401 - GRANT CONTINUITY CARD (3) > >DEC PDP 11/83 - RSX11M+ > TK-50 TAPE DRIVE (1) > MAXTOR RD-54 DRIVES (2) > M3106 - 4 LINE ASYNC CARD (2) > M3107 - DHQ11-M ASYNC MUX (2) > M7516 - Q-BUS TO ETHERNET ADAPTOR (1) > M7555 - RD DISK CONT BD F4/D1,DUAL (1) > M9058 - RQDX2,3 CABLE PADDLE CARD (1) > >DEC VAXStation II > MAXTOR RD-53 DRIVES (2) > M3106 - 4 LINE ASYNC CARD (2) > M7504 - DEQN-M Q-BUS ETHERNET CARD (1) > M7555 - RD DISK CONT BD F4/D1,DUAL (1) > M8027 - LPV11 PRINTER CONTROLLER (1) > M9058 - RQDX2,3 CABLE PADDLE CARD (1) > EMULEX TC0210201-FSH - TAPE CONTROLLER > EMULEX SC0310201-BXF - DISK CONTROLLER > >MISCELLANEOUS > DEC H3104 - 36-PIN TO 8 MMJ PORTS (3) > DECXM-M.D01 - AUI X BNC THINWIRE MAU (2) > DEC BNE40=02 - 2M E-NET/IEEE 802 NI CABLE (2) > DEC H8571-C - MMJ-RS232 ADAPTER (3) > DEC H8571-D - MMJ-RS232 ADAPTER (2) > DEC H8575-B - DB9F / MMJ ADAPTER (7) > EMU-TEK - REVs 3.0A and 3.0B (1ea) > VT520-A4 TERMINAL (1) > BLACK BOX 4-1 RS-232 SWITCH (DB25) > BLACK BOX 6-1 RS-232 SWITCH (DB25) > >Thanks... > >Todd Wilson >HVAC Services - Michigan State University > > > > >************** Second Message ************* >I should clarify... > >These systems are to be sent to salvage complete, and I don't intend to >part them out. Of the miscellaneous parts, the H3104s go with the PDPs (2 >with the 11/83, 1 with the 11/93). The MAUs and NI cables were a DECNet >interface between the two PDPs. 232-MMJ adapters, I have a bunch of >generics (bought from Black-Box) along with the actual DEC ones listed. I >also have quite a bit of documentation with the PDPs. The VaxStation was >procured as a parts machine since it is also QBus and PDP parts were >becoming scarce(though we never used it as such). My hope is to generate >some interest in them so that someone will buy them through salvage rather >than sending them to the crusher. The last unit I sent to salvage was an >11/24, 5 full enclosures, 9 RA-81 disk drives, 1 RA-80, 2 RLO2, and about >(literally) 30 RLO2 Pacs. All were crushed due to lack of interest. When I >send this group of items to salvage, it will include some LA100 and 120 >printers and stands, an RLO2 Diagnostic Pac (RSX11M), and I think I have 2 >or three more VTs (if memory serves, VT320s). I might have 1 more RA80 >also. My intent is to post back here with details on how to purchase the >items through salvage when I send them (within the next week or two). Many >have offered EBay as an option, but our equipment transfer rules do not >permit direct sale of University owned items. All inventoried materials >must be transferred to Salvage for release from the University. > >If anyone need to contact me about them, I can be reached at > >Direct Line: (517)432-0533 >Email: tdwilson@pplant.msu.edu > >Thanks > >Todd Wilson > From ohh at drizzle.com Wed Nov 10 09:56:27 2004 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: PDP-11 Stuff In Michigan Message-ID: Hey, here's a couple of posts from alt.sys.pdp11 for those who have an interest: the first a list of equipment, the second some additional information about their current situation. Sounds like a potentially nice bunch o' stuff. No affiliation, and Michigan's about 2000 miles out of my way. :) -O.- -- first forwarded message -- From: Todd Wilson Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Parts Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 14:37:03 -0500 Message-ID: Greetings from Michigan State University I've got the following group of stuff set to go to salvage and have no idea of the value (if any) that they have anymore. Any information would be appreciated. DEC PDP 11/93 - RSX11M+ TK-50 TAPE DRIVE (1) MAXTOR RD-54 DRIVES (2) M3106 - 4 LINE ASYNC CARD (2) M3107 - DHQ11-M ASYNC MUX (1) M7516 - Q-BUS TO ETHERNET ADAPTOR (1) M7555 - RD DISK CONT BD F4/D1,DUAL (1) M8991 (1) M9058 - RQDX2,3 CABLE PADDLE CARD (1) M9401 - GRANT CONTINUITY CARD (3) DEC PDP 11/83 - RSX11M+ TK-50 TAPE DRIVE (1) MAXTOR RD-54 DRIVES (2) M3106 - 4 LINE ASYNC CARD (2) M3107 - DHQ11-M ASYNC MUX (2) M7516 - Q-BUS TO ETHERNET ADAPTOR (1) M7555 - RD DISK CONT BD F4/D1,DUAL (1) M9058 - RQDX2,3 CABLE PADDLE CARD (1) DEC VAXStation II MAXTOR RD-53 DRIVES (2) M3106 - 4 LINE ASYNC CARD (2) M7504 - DEQN-M Q-BUS ETHERNET CARD (1) M7555 - RD DISK CONT BD F4/D1,DUAL (1) M8027 - LPV11 PRINTER CONTROLLER (1) M9058 - RQDX2,3 CABLE PADDLE CARD (1) EMULEX TC0210201-FSH - TAPE CONTROLLER EMULEX SC0310201-BXF - DISK CONTROLLER MISCELLANEOUS DEC H3104 - 36-PIN TO 8 MMJ PORTS (3) DECXM-M.D01 - AUI X BNC THINWIRE MAU (2) DEC BNE40=02 - 2M E-NET/IEEE 802 NI CABLE (2) DEC H8571-C - MMJ-RS232 ADAPTER (3) DEC H8571-D - MMJ-RS232 ADAPTER (2) DEC H8575-B - DB9F / MMJ ADAPTER (7) EMU-TEK - REVs 3.0A and 3.0B (1ea) VT520-A4 TERMINAL (1) BLACK BOX 4-1 RS-232 SWITCH (DB25) BLACK BOX 6-1 RS-232 SWITCH (DB25) Thanks... Todd Wilson HVAC Services - Michigan State University -- second forwarded message -- From: Todd Wilson Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Re: Parts Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:05:27 -0500 Message-ID: I should clarify... These systems are to be sent to salvage complete, and I don't intend to part them out. Of the miscellaneous parts, the H3104s go with the PDPs (2 with the 11/83, 1 with the 11/93). The MAUs and NI cables were a DECNet interface between the two PDPs. 232-MMJ adapters, I have a bunch of generics (bought from Black-Box) along with the actual DEC ones listed. I also have quite a bit of documentation with the PDPs. The VaxStation was procured as a parts machine since it is also QBus and PDP parts were becoming scarce(though we never used it as such). My hope is to generate some interest in them so that someone will buy them through salvage rather than sending them to the crusher. The last unit I sent to salvage was an 11/24, 5 full enclosures, 9 RA-81 disk drives, 1 RA-80, 2 RLO2, and about (literally) 30 RLO2 Pacs. All were crushed due to lack of interest. When I send this group of items to salvage, it will include some LA100 and 120 printers and stands, an RLO2 Diagnostic Pac (RSX11M), and I think I have 2 or three more VTs (if memory serves, VT320s). I might have 1 more RA80 also. My intent is to post back here with details on how to purchase the items through salvage when I send them (within the next week or two). Many have offered EBay as an option, but our equipment transfer rules do not permit direct sale of University owned items. All inventoried materials must be transferred to Salvage for release from the University. If anyone need to contact me about them, I can be reached at Direct Line: (517)432-0533 Email: tdwilson@pplant.msu.edu Thanks Todd Wilson From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Wed Nov 10 10:33:43 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: Classic Mac Gurus! - Tell me please Message-ID: <4918719A-3336-11D9-84AA-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Can an Apple II 3 1/2 drive be attached to the floppy port of a Mac Classic II? Can this damage my Mac Classic II? I am currently running system 7.1 I think it's an 800K drive. From cb at mythtech.net Wed Nov 10 10:43:19 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: Classic Mac Gurus! - Tell me please Message-ID: >Can an Apple II 3 1/2 drive be attached to the floppy port >of a Mac Classic II? > >Can this damage my Mac Classic II? > >I am currently running system 7.1 > > > >I think it's an 800K drive. It depends on the drive. Some were compatible between the two lines, others would fry the drive controller. If you do a search on the actual drive part number, that should give you the answers you seek. This web site may be all you need to find your drive and if it will work with both -chris From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Nov 10 10:52:49 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: PDP-11 Stuff In Michigan In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041110113413.00b07d60@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that O. Sharp may have mentioned these words: >Hey, here's a couple of posts from alt.sys.pdp11 for those who have an >interest: the first a list of equipment, the second some additional >information about their current situation. Sounds like a potentially nice >bunch o' stuff. > >No affiliation, and Michigan's about 2000 miles out of my way. :) Well, despite the fact I'm in Michigan, I'm *way north* of Lansing -- about 300 miles worth (one way). However, if someone in Canada or northern Wisconsin / Minnesota wants it, I *might* (and I stress *might*) be able to rescue it if I can swing an available day thru the weekends of the 20th or 27th (US Thanksgiving Weekend). If you wish me to rescue it, I'd be appreciative if you were to toss me a few bones for gas, the Avalanche gets kinda thirsty (twice) after a megameter... especially towing a trailer, which I'd need to do; I have a 5 foot by 10 foot ramp single-axle and some tarps, so it would be fairly (but not completely) protected from the weather, but (obviously) from the temperature, which is currently dropping quickly in these parts. I have access to temporary _unheated_ storage, no charge, but it would *have* to be gone by very early next spring. Just a thought, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | Anarchy doesn't scale well. -- Me zmerch@30below.com. | SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Wed Nov 10 10:56:48 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: Classic Mac Gurus! - Tell me please In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <82AB3A26-3339-11D9-84AA-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Nov 10, 2004, at 8:43 AM, chris wrote: >> Can an Apple II 3 1/2 drive be attached to the floppy port >> of a Mac Classic II? >> >> Can this damage my Mac Classic II? >> >> I am currently running system 7.1 >> >> >> >> I think it's an 800K drive. > > It depends on the drive. Some were compatible between the two lines, > others would fry the drive controller. > > If you do a search on the actual drive part number, that should give > you > the answers you seek. This web site may be all you need to find your > drive and if it will work with both > > Mines a A9M106, and seems to be compatible with my Mac Classic, That is if my mac classic can grok an 800K drive. > > -chris > > From mross666 at hotmail.com Wed Nov 10 10:16:28 2004 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: Xerox GUI on a PC??? Message-ID: >Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 02:58:10 +0000 >From: cvendel@att.net >Subject: Xerox GUI on a PC??? >Is there a PD program that can be downloaded to run a PC to give it the >look & >feel of the original Xerox Altos or Star 8010 ??? Yes. GVWin. It's not entirely PD - mostly obsolete abandonware as far as I understand. Get it here: http://www.corestore.org/gvwin21.zip There's another implementation - GVX - which does the same job under X on SunOS and (I think) AIX. But it's a bugger to configure! Mike http://www.corestore.org From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Wed Nov 10 11:04:35 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim stephens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:35 2005 Subject: Stuff Available Ft. Wayne IN References: <5ECE3D898910AC4497A172FAFA33D2CA0AC493@ACDFWMAIL1.acd.de.ittind.com> <9833D0FE-2CEA-11D9-8438-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <16775.46413.704460.136779@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <41924A23.5736BAAB@msm.umr.edu> Paul Koning wrote: > > VK100 -- I think "Gigi" was the codename that snuck out. Some vague > memory says that it came out of the education producs group at DEC. > > It looks like a fat VT100 keyboard with a video connection coming out > the back. > > It's a very crude graphics terminal -- implements an early version of > ReGis (a DEC proprietary graphics protocol). It has color -- so long > as you only want a few (I think it had about 8). > > A VT125 is a vastly superior graphics terminal -- that should give you > some idea... > > paul the code name didn't sneak out, my box has GiGi on it. I do agree with your assessment about its capabilities, however. any manuals or download support around for these? jim From cb at mythtech.net Wed Nov 10 11:13:59 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Classic Mac Gurus! - Tell me please Message-ID: >Mines a A9M106, and seems to be compatible with my Mac Classic, That is >if my >mac classic can grok an 800K drive. Yes, the classic can handle an 800k drive. Support for the 800k disks was dropped I believe in software, not hardware sometime around OS 8.?? Any Mac that has a floppy port should be able to work with an 800k drive, with the exception of possibly the 128k (the 512 needs the "Init 20" init to use an 800k drive, that same init may work with the 128. I have a feeling I've used it to add an HD20 to the 128 in the past, but I can't be sure, and I've seen reports that the HD20 does NOT work with the 128... if the reports are right, and I'm wrong, then the 128 should also fail to use an 800k drive for the same lack of HFS support reason) The Classic will work just fine with an 800k drive. The harder part will be finding 800k disks! (you can't reliably use HD disks as 800k. It will work, but not for long) -chris From fernande at internet1.net Wed Nov 10 11:26:01 2004 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: PDP-11 Stuff In Michigan In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041110113413.00b07d60@mail.30below.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20041110113413.00b07d60@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <41924F29.8080000@internet1.net> Roger, I'm only about an hour away from MSU. I've sent an email to Todd Wilson at MSU to find out more. Hopefully, I'll hear back soon. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Roger Merchberger wrote: > Well, despite the fact I'm in Michigan, I'm *way north* of Lansing -- > about 300 miles worth (one way). However, if someone in Canada or > northern Wisconsin / Minnesota wants it, I *might* (and I stress > *might*) be able to rescue it if I can swing an available day thru the > weekends of the 20th or 27th (US Thanksgiving Weekend). > > If you wish me to rescue it, I'd be appreciative if you were to toss me > a few bones for gas, the Avalanche gets kinda thirsty (twice) after a > megameter... especially towing a trailer, which I'd need to do; I have a > 5 foot by 10 foot ramp single-axle and some tarps, so it would be fairly > (but not completely) protected from the weather, but (obviously) from > the temperature, which is currently dropping quickly in these parts. > > I have access to temporary _unheated_ storage, no charge, but it would > *have* to be gone by very early next spring. > > Just a thought, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger From vcf at siconic.com Wed Nov 10 11:54:03 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Build your own Enigma! Message-ID: This is really cool: http://www.xat.nl/enigma-e/ -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Nov 10 12:04:35 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Build your own Enigma! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1100109875.32683.16.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-11-10 at 09:54 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > This is really cool: > > http://www.xat.nl/enigma-e/ I know Bletchley's shop normally sell those too (last I heard they were out of stock and with a huge backlog of orders though) Personally I can't see the attraction though; either use a PC-based simulator, or build an Enigma with rotors - half the appeal of an Enigma is in the 'user interface'. But that's just me. :) cheers J. From john at guntersville.net Wed Nov 10 12:13:07 2004 From: john at guntersville.net (John C. Ellingboe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: DEC Docs, Diagrams, and Diags. on Microfische Message-ID: <41925A33.F421AD7B@guntersville.net> Has anyone noticed this?? Someone should probably get them posted on a website if they can be reproduced to any reasonable degree. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5137825332&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT From james at jdfogg.com Wed Nov 10 12:34:24 2004 From: james at jdfogg.com (james) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: DEC Docs, Diagrams, and Diags. on Microfische In-Reply-To: <41925A33.F421AD7B@guntersville.net> References: <41925A33.F421AD7B@guntersville.net> Message-ID: <1100111664.2961.0.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> On Wed, 2004-11-10 at 13:13, John C. Ellingboe wrote: > Has anyone noticed this?? Someone should probably get them posted on a > website if they can be reproduced to any reasonable degree. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5137825332&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT I'm going to take a crack at bidding. I have access to fiche scanners. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 10 12:59:42 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Build your own Enigma! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041110135942.008f4b80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:54 AM 11/10/04 -0800, Sellam wrote: > >This is really cool: > >http://www.xat.nl/enigma-e/ That's DAMMED cool! Somebody needs to start selling these in the US! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 10 13:06:41 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: DEC Docs, Diagrams, and Diags. on Microfische In-Reply-To: <41925A33.F421AD7B@guntersville.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041110140641.00961980@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> There was along discussion on this list about a year ago about scanning microfiche but I don't think anyone could make it work at the time. However there are now HIGH resolution film scanners so it may be possible now. OTOH my buddy who is a professional photographer has a new EXPENSIVE digital camera and could probably photograph these directly. Joe At 12:13 PM 11/10/04 -0600, you wrote: >Has anyone noticed this?? Someone should probably get them posted on a >website if they can be reproduced to any reasonable degree. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5137825332&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT From tomj at wps.com Wed Nov 10 13:17:59 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Help, I can't get emails In-Reply-To: <200411100223.VAA05139@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <010001c4c6c0$3b806ff0$0200000a@goliath> <200411100223.VAA05139@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, der Mouse wrote: > processing. In my case this is compounded because the list accepts > syntactically erroneous mail and passes along in its syntactically > erroneous form, then mistakes my mailer's rejection of such messages > for an indication that there's something wrong at _my_ end.) metoo I get malformed From:'s that turn into malformed To:'s that my mail client (pine) gags on. From james at jdfogg.com Wed Nov 10 13:52:17 2004 From: james at jdfogg.com (james) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: DEC Docs, Diagrams, and Diags. on Microfische In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041110140641.00961980@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041110140641.00961980@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1100116337.2961.30.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> On Wed, 2004-11-10 at 14:06, Joe R. wrote: > There was along discussion on this list about a year ago about > scanning microfiche but I don't think anyone could make it work at > the time. However there are now HIGH resolution film scanners so > it may be possible now. OTOH my buddy who is a professional > photographer has a new EXPENSIVE digital camera and could probably > photograph these directly. > > Joe Maybe I should be more specific. I have access to equipment designed to scan microfiche and save as a file. Said file can also be ICR'd. When the auction matures a little bit I'll be bidding. If the fiche don't go too high in bids and I win, my intent is to scan/icr them and build a website from the data. If there is too much concern about copyrights then at least I'll have data that I can share in an easily transported digital form. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Nov 10 14:23:24 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: GIGI (was: RE: Stuff Available Ft. Wayne IN) In-Reply-To: <41924A23.5736BAAB@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: <200411102041.iAAKfbOP090156@huey.classiccmp.org> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of jim stephens > Sent: 10 November 2004 17:05 > To: General@encke.easily.co.uk; > Discussion@encke.easily.co.uk:On-Topic Posts Only > Subject: Re: Stuff Available Ft. Wayne IN > > the code name didn't sneak out, my box has GiGi on it. I do > agree with your assessment about its capabilities, however. > > any manuals or download support around for these? Yep, a good google should track them down. The user manual and the service manual are online. If you can't find them give me a shout 'cos I've got them here....just haven't got round to fixing my GIGI yet :) cheers w From aek at spies.com Wed Nov 10 15:01:53 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: DEC Docs, Diagrams, and Diags. on Microfische Message-ID: <20041110210153.D9D1F4453@spies.com> > I'm going to take a crack at bidding. I have access to fiche scanners. -- I have all of this fiche already, and thousands of sheets more if you have equipment to scan it (300dpi effective resolution preferred) From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Nov 10 13:24:32 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: DEC Docs, Diagrams, and Diags. on Microfische In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041110140641.00961980@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041110140641.00961980@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1100114672.32683.36.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-11-10 at 14:06 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > There was along discussion on this list about a year ago about scanning > microfiche but I don't think anyone could make it work at the time. However > there are now HIGH resolution film scanners so it may be possible now. OTOH > my buddy who is a professional photographer has a new EXPENSIVE digital > camera and could probably photograph these directly. One of the guys at the museum looked into it as he's got a huge stack of DEC fiche; I can't remember what the cost per fiche was now but it was sufficiently high that cost of getting the whole lot done added up pretty quick. I believe he's asked the company to do a few samples though, so we'll see what the quality's like. I believe they charged per slide, rather than per fiche (presumably because the expense is in the amount of printed output, rather than the number of input fiches) I'll ask if he's got a list what exactly what DEC fiches he has. If someone lives close to the museum on this side of the pond and has free access to a fiche scanner, then do speak up :) cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Nov 10 07:48:12 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: HP2100/HP1000 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041109225945.00793190@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <20041109235956.66434440B@spies.com> <20041109235956.66434440B@spies.com> <3.0.6.32.20041109225945.00793190@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1100094492.32307.45.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-11-09 at 22:59 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > At 12:19 AM 11/10/04 +0000, you wrote: > > >Hmm, our machines are both 400t's. I'm tempted to get Apollo stuff added > >to the 'wanted' list on our website though. I'll keep you in mind in > >case anything ever turns up! > > Too bad you're not in this area (Florida). I have a crap load of Apollos > (all kinds) that need a home. Sorry no docs and no disks but they may have > SW on their drives. Eek! Anyone doing a container run from Joe's house to the UK in the near future? :-) One day I'd like to get another four 400t's for a project... If you have a Domain keyboard for a 400t then that might be worth shipping anyway - so far I've been unable to find one in the UK (or anywhere in fact). It'd be nice to have both of our 400t's fully operational! cheers Jules From wmaddox at pacbell.net Wed Nov 10 17:40:19 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Shipping a Model 33 (RO) Teletype Message-ID: <20041110234019.37485.qmail@web81304.mail.yahoo.com> I've bought a model 33 off eBay. The seller doesn't really know how to ship one -- he's just got it in a box with styrofoam peanuts. I'm trying to give him some instructions on how to do it right. I recall that there is a shipping screw that must be locked, but don't remember the details. Can anyone give me some instructions I can pass on to him? If anyone has shipped one of these, I'd like to know what worked and what didn't. I remember a few stories of machines damaged in transit showing up on the list. Thanks, --Bill From liste at artware.qc.ca Wed Nov 10 17:13:17 2004 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Toshiba T4400 password Message-ID: At "Au Vieux PC" (where shopping is always an Adventure) I spotted a T4400 with docking station and parallele port to SCSI addapter and other bits. All for 15 CAD. However, the T4400 has a BIOS password. http://www.bitlink.ca/Library/toshiba.shtml Says that it's impossible to remove the password. Anyone here have any other ideas? Also, anyone want this beast? -Philip From dave04a at dunfield.com Wed Nov 10 18:56:00 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Toshiba T4400 password Message-ID: <20041111005559.WRIE11272.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> At 19:13 10/11/2004 -0400, you wrote: >At "Au Vieux PC" (where shopping is always an Adventure) I spotted a T4400 >with docking station and parallele port to SCSI addapter and other bits. >All for 15 CAD. > >However, the T4400 has a BIOS password. >http://www.bitlink.ca/Library/toshiba.shtml Says that it's impossible to >remove the password. Anyone here have any other ideas? > >Also, anyone want this beast? > >-Philip Philip, If you have a parallel port, you should be able to do it. I have never done this myself, however it is reported by many to work on Toshiba laptops: ----------------------- Begin Quote ---------------------- This method works on all older (ancient) models. This is what you need: 1. Your notebook 2. An empty formatted diskette (720 kb or 1,44 mb) 3. A second computer (e.g. a DOS desktop PC) 4. A hex-editor (e.g. Norton DiskEdit or HexWorks) This is what you have to do: 1. Start the desktop PC and start the hex-editor 2. Put the disk in drive A: 3. Change the first five bytes of sector 2 (boot sector is sector 1) to: 4B 45 59 00 00 4. Save it! Now you have a KEYDISK 5. Remove the disk from drive A: 6. Put the disk in the notebook drive 7. Start the notebook in Boot Mode (push the reset button) 8. Press Enter when asked for Password: 9. You will be asked to Set Password again. Press Y and Enter. 10. You now see the BIOS configuration where you can set a new password. Of course this will only work if you can still boot the machine. Newer models try: Toshiba notebook BIOS password removal via Parallel Port If you make a simple device that you connect to your parallel port, a lot of Toshiba computers remove the password when you boot it up. The device, named "loopback" by some, could be made out of any parallel wire with 25pins connectors. You should connect these pins: 1-5-10, 2-11, 3-17, 4-12, 6-16, 7-13, 8-14, 9-15 For those who care, what is connect to what 1-5-10, 1=Strob, 5 =data bit 3, 10 = ack 2-11, 2=data bit 0, 11=Busy 3-17, 3=data bit 1, 17=SLCT IN 4-12, 4=data bit 2, 12=Paper End 6-16, 6=data bit 4, 16=reset 7-13, 7=data bit 5, 13=SLCT (out) 8-14, 8=data bit 6, 14=Auto feed 9-15 9=data bit 7, n/c sometimes +5v If you have a newer laptop again, one without a parallel port you will need a special USB password removal tool, and they cost much more. ---------------- End Quote ---------------- If you give up on it or otherwise decide to unload it, I have some interest (located in Ottawa). Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 10 19:17:02 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Build your own Enigma! In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Nov 10, 4 09:54:03 am Message-ID: > > > This is really cool: > > http://www.xat.nl/enigma-e/ What's the point? If you want an Enigma copy, then build a real mechanical one (not at all impossible in a good home workshop). If you want an encryption system, then use one of the many more secure ones that are available now, If for some reason you want to be able to encode/decode enigma messages, it's not hard to write a suitable program for a good handheld computer/calculator. This seems to be as pointless as those fake 'old radios' that look like pre-war sets but which have ICs inside (or the UK 'copies' of 1960's transistor portables with the FM band and ICs inside). If you want a valve radio, then get one... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 10 19:20:37 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Shipping a Model 33 (RO) Teletype In-Reply-To: <20041110234019.37485.qmail@web81304.mail.yahoo.com> from "William Maddox" at Nov 10, 4 03:40:19 pm Message-ID: > > I've bought a model 33 off eBay. The seller doesn't > really know how to ship one -- he's just got it in a > box with styrofoam peanuts. I'm trying to give him > some instructions on how to do it right. I recall > that > there is a shipping screw that must be locked, but > don't remember the details. Can anyone give me some You _must_ bolt the typing unit -- the main chassis -- down. If you don't, you'll do a lot of damage when you ship it. THere's a hole underneath that takes a self-tapping screw to do this -- officially the screw was supposed to be cliped to one of the carriage belt brackets inside, but I've never seen one. If all else fails, 'borrow' a screw from, say, the platten mounting for this. -tony From wacarder at usit.net Wed Nov 10 19:29:21 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Shipping a Model 33 (RO) Teletype In-Reply-To: <20041110234019.37485.qmail@web81304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > I've bought a model 33 off eBay. The seller doesn't > really know how to ship one -- he's just got it in a > box with styrofoam peanuts. I'm trying to give him > some instructions on how to do it right. I recall > that > there is a shipping screw that must be locked, but > don't remember the details. Can anyone give me some > instructions I can pass on to him? If anyone has > shipped one of these, I'd like to know what worked and > what didn't. I remember a few stories of machines > damaged in transit showing up on the list. > > Thanks, > > --Bill I recently bought a working ASR-33 from a company that used to do maintenance on these things. They did put the shpping bolt in it, and it was inserted underneath the keyboard area from outside the bottom cover. It seems that it was about 3 or 4 inches long with a big washer on the end. Since I bought mine in working condition, I went ahead and paid a little extra to have it strapped to a pallet, wrapped with some bubble wrap and foam, and covered with a cardboard box shaped to fit. I bought an LA36 DecWriter at the same time and both were shipped on the same palllet. I used FedEx Freight, which did a fine job delivering it. I don't know what else to tell you, but I do know that mine survived the trip and worked perfectly when I tested it out. I have heard of others who were not quite as fortunate. Ashley From news at computercollector.com Wed Nov 10 20:23:11 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Almost vintage... Message-ID: <20041111022311.73266.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> I'm looking for a copy of AutoCAD 12 for DOS -- circa mid-1990s. Can someone perhaps copy the disks onto a CD for me (please)...? Of course, I'll pay for the CD and mailing. I don't need any documentation. Thanks, Evan ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit the museums directory and read about past events at our web site: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 585 readers and counting! From allain at panix.com Wed Nov 10 20:28:17 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Stuff Available Ft. Wayne IN References: <5ECE3D898910AC4497A172FAFA33D2CA0AC493@ACDFWMAIL1.acd.de.ittind.com><9833D0FE-2CEA-11D9-8438-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net><16775.46413.704460.136779@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <41924A23.5736BAAB@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: <000a01c4c796$1b0ee7c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > any manuals or download support around for {the GiGi}? I have the paper manual here somewhere. It's bound (soft) so may be a pain to scan. It's about time for someone to make an "open book scanner", one with a wedge of glass that you can drop the book onto. I don't want this binding opened 180? flat. John A. From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed Nov 10 20:59:39 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Shipping a Model 33 (RO) Teletype In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The typing unit in a Model 33 is just floating inside the case (it sits on 4 rubber feet). Without a lockdown bolt it will bounce all over the place and probably destroy the unit (I know I have one that was destroyed in this fashion Photos at www.dynamicconcepts.us/Teletype). Even with the locking bolt in place, the typing unit is likely to shift and require alingment. >> From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Nov 10 20:57:14 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Scanning books (was: Stuff Available Ft. Wayne IN In-Reply-To: <000a01c4c796$1b0ee7c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <5ECE3D898910AC4497A172FAFA33D2CA0AC493@ACDFWMAIL1.acd.de.ittind.com><9833D0FE-2CEA-11D9-8438-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net><16775.46413.704460.136779@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <41924A23.5736BAAB@msm.umr.edu> <000a01c4c796$1b0ee7c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20041110183715.T21970@shell.lmi.net> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, John Allain wrote: > I have the paper manual here somewhere. It's bound (soft) so > may be a pain to scan. It's about time for someone to make an > "open book scanner", one with a wedge of glass that you can > drop the book onto. I don't want this binding opened 180? flat. One company (I can't remember who) makes a book scanner that has an option to correct for the curvature of the gutter of a book that isn't fully flattened. I don't even remember whether they did it optically (which would be a matter of both focus AND distortion), or whether it is done digitally, (digitally correcting the distortion, but relying on depth of focus). From news at computercollector.com Wed Nov 10 21:12:23 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Almost vintage... In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041110220930.02b13bf0@mail.n.ml.org> Message-ID: <20041111031223.57953.qmail@web52807.mail.yahoo.com> LOL, no thanks... anyway I'm specifically looking for the full version (not LT) for DOS. --- John Boffemmyer IV wrote: > i think i have autocad lt for windows on like 24 floppys, problem is, > they're regged to Dick Hurtz. > -John Boffemmyer IV > > At 09:23 PM 11/10/2004, you wrote: > >I'm looking for a copy of AutoCAD 12 for DOS -- circa mid-1990s. Can > someone > >perhaps copy the disks onto a CD for me (please)...? > > > >Of course, I'll pay for the CD and mailing. I don't need any documentation. > > > >Thanks, > > > > Evan > > > >===== > >Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! > >-- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address > >-- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us > >-- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all > > > >Visit the museums directory and read about past events > >at our web site: http://news.computercollector.com > > > >Contact us at news@computercollector.com > > > >585 readers and counting! > > ---------------------------------------- > Founder, Network Engineer, Tech Analyst > and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies > http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html > ---------------------------------------- > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit the museums directory and read about past events at our web site: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 585 readers and counting! From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Nov 10 23:49:23 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: PING Fred Van Kempen Message-ID: Hay! Yer server's chokin' on sumpin' - sez my mail's done been De-layed. Dang. John From wpileggi at juno.com Wed Nov 10 23:45:18 2004 From: wpileggi at juno.com (Bill Pileggi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Macintosh Plus 1MB with kybd., mouse, cables, cover(s) Free for Postag e Message-ID: <20041110.214547.3304.174320@webmail02.lax.untd.com> A Macintosh Plus 1MB with keyboard, mouse, power cable, apple cable and dust cover(s) followed me home from trash night. I powered it up - makes the tone, then wants you to load floppy disk in drive. I've got no boot disks... Display is good. Overall condition is decent, needs cleaning. Weights 20 pounds/9Kg. total. It's yours for postage from 19001 USPS; 19044 UPS; 19034 Fedex. In case you're interested, they threw out the Apple printer last week - someone else picked it up. I got the HP laser printer though last week....strangely enough, they threw out another HP laser printer tonight, this time with a toner cartridge. The toner cartridge is bad...rats...Bill. ________________________________________________________________ Juno Platinum $9.95. Juno SpeedBand $14.95. Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com! Look for special offers at Best Buy stores. From GOOI at oce.nl Thu Nov 11 01:32:29 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: one more question about pdp8/e console switches behaviour Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A011133B0@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Hello all, I have the pdp8/e *including* the console running on the Core 6809 Board (plus one I/O Board)! But ... I have one more question about the behaviour of the pdp8/e. If the HALT (or SING STEP) switch is down, you can use the EXAM and DEP momentary switches. If I press EXAM, I want to see the 12-bit word contents of the address currently on display in the top row (memory address) of the console. That 12-bit word is displayed on the 12 lights below the memory address lights. Is it correct that the position of the selector switch (the rotary knob) must be on "AC" to see the contents of the active address? Or is its position not relevant while HALT (or SING STEP) is active which seems odd to me because you want to be able to see more than just the AC when you HALTed the CPU? The answer seems easy, I just want to hear confirmation. The current implementation shows the contents briefly after I pressed EXAM *and* the knob is on "AC". Just *very briefly*, then the simulation shows the actual AC content again. So, on a real pdp8/e I assume that when the knob is on "AC" you see the contents of AC when HALT is active? In that case, after the user pushed EXAM once (and the memory contents is displayed as I described above), how does he get to see contents of the "AC" again? Hope I made myself clear why I asked the question ... TIA, - Henk, PA8PDP. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Nov 11 02:08:01 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: one more question about pdp8/e console switches behaviour In-Reply-To: Gooijen H "one more question about pdp8/e console switches behaviour" (Nov 11, 8:32) References: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A011133B0@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Message-ID: <10411110808.ZM9169@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 11 2004, 8:32, Gooijen H wrote: > Hello all, > > I have the pdp8/e *including* the console running on the Core > 6809 Board (plus one I/O Board)! Nice! I look forward to seeing this. > If the HALT (or SING STEP) switch is down, you can use the EXAM > and DEP momentary switches. If I press EXAM, I want to see the > 12-bit word contents of the address currently on display in the > top row (memory address) of the console. > That 12-bit word is displayed on the 12 lights below the memory > address lights. Is it correct that the position of the selector > switch (the rotary knob) must be on "AC" to see the contents of > the active address? Or is its position not relevant while HALT > (or SING STEP) is active which seems odd to me because you want > to be able to see more than just the AC when you HALTed the CPU? The position is always relevant, but you don't set it to AC. You set it to MD (Memory Data). And when you press EXAM (or DEP), the address displayed on the upper row will increment (but the data displayed will remain the same, the data for the address that was current when you pressed EXAM/DEP). > The answer seems easy, I just want to hear confirmation. > The current implementation shows the contents briefly after I > pressed EXAM *and* the knob is on "AC". Just *very briefly*, > then the simulation shows the actual AC content again. It shouldn't do that. > So, on a real pdp8/e I assume that when the knob is on "AC" you > see the contents of AC when HALT is active? Yes, without any glitches from the data. But only if the rotary knob is turned to the AC position, otherwise you see whatever you've selected (STATE, STATUS, AC, MD, MQ, BUS). > In that case, after the user pushed EXAM once (and the memory > contents is displayed as I described above), how does he get to > see contents of the "AC" again? > > Hope I made myself clear why I asked the question ... > > TIA, > - Henk, PA8PDP. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From bert at brothom.nl Thu Nov 11 02:48:48 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: DEC Docs, Diagrams, and Diags. on Microfische In-Reply-To: <1100114672.32683.36.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <3.0.6.32.20041110140641.00961980@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1100114672.32683.36.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1060.192.168.0.116.1100162928.squirrel@office.brothom.nl> > On Wed, 2004-11-10 at 14:06 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > I'll ask if he's got a list what exactly what DEC fiches he has. If > someone lives close to the museum on this side of the pond and has free > access to a fiche scanner, then do speak up :) I recently inquired a few companies here in Holland. Most of them charge EUR 0.05-0.15 per page! One company however claimed they could scan the whole fiche at once, for EUR 1,25 per fiche. Still not cheap, but doable IMHO. Bert From GOOI at oce.nl Thu Nov 11 03:05:28 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: one more question about pdp8/e console switches behaviour Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A011133B2@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Thanks very much for the clear answer, Pete. I have a webpage "in development", and hope to add a few pictures representing the latest state of affairs. There is also a ZIP file but it is an old version ... I will clean up the current source (remove some debugging stuff) and make that available for download as well. If you have a working Core Board *with* the extra 16k RAM chip, you can run the pdp8/e simulation without the I/O Board by just assembling the source with the "RealCons" conditional set to 0. The wiring details (and more) are all in the source file. The link to the page is: www.pdp-11.nl -- the click on [Homebrew 'PDP-11'] in the menu at the left, and on the page that opens click the link [spin off] at the top right. enjoy (?), - Henk, PA8PDP. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Pete Turnbull > Sent: donderdag 11 november 2004 9:08 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: one more question about pdp8/e console switches behaviour > > > On Nov 11 2004, 8:32, Gooijen H wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > I have the pdp8/e *including* the console running on the Core > > 6809 Board (plus one I/O Board)! > > Nice! I look forward to seeing this. > > > If the HALT (or SING STEP) switch is down, you can use the EXAM > > and DEP momentary switches. If I press EXAM, I want to see the > > 12-bit word contents of the address currently on display in the > > top row (memory address) of the console. > > That 12-bit word is displayed on the 12 lights below the memory > > address lights. Is it correct that the position of the selector > > switch (the rotary knob) must be on "AC" to see the contents of > > the active address? Or is its position not relevant while HALT > > (or SING STEP) is active which seems odd to me because you want > > to be able to see more than just the AC when you HALTed the CPU? > > The position is always relevant, but you don't set it to AC. You set > it to MD (Memory Data). And when you press EXAM (or DEP), the address > displayed on the upper row will increment (but the data displayed will > remain the same, the data for the address that was current when you > pressed EXAM/DEP). > > > The answer seems easy, I just want to hear confirmation. > > The current implementation shows the contents briefly after I > > pressed EXAM *and* the knob is on "AC". Just *very briefly*, > > then the simulation shows the actual AC content again. > > It shouldn't do that. > > > So, on a real pdp8/e I assume that when the knob is on "AC" you > > see the contents of AC when HALT is active? > > Yes, without any glitches from the data. But only if the rotary knob > is turned to the AC position, otherwise you see whatever you've > selected (STATE, STATUS, AC, MD, MQ, BUS). > > > In that case, after the user pushed EXAM once (and the memory > > contents is displayed as I described above), how does he get to > > see contents of the "AC" again? > > > > Hope I made myself clear why I asked the question ... > > > > TIA, > > - Henk, PA8PDP. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York From drb at msu.edu Wed Nov 10 17:42:06 2004 From: drb at msu.edu (Dennis Boone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Nice PDP-Stuff available from Michigan State University In-Reply-To: (Your message of Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:47:00 +0100.) References: Message-ID: <200411102342.iAANg6fO023391@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> > I saw this in the usenet in alt.sys.pdp11, and I am unfortunately too far > away to get it myself... Anyone here? > > >I've got the following group of stuff set to go to salvage and have no > >idea of the value (if any) that they have anymore. Any information would > >be appreciated. > > > >DEC PDP 11/93 - RSX11M+ You can bet I'll be on Harrison Road regularly looking for this stuff to appear. De From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Wed Nov 10 21:10:06 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Almost vintage... In-Reply-To: <20041111022311.73266.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041111022311.73266.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041110220930.02b13bf0@mail.n.ml.org> i think i have autocad lt for windows on like 24 floppys, problem is, they're regged to Dick Hurtz. -John Boffemmyer IV At 09:23 PM 11/10/2004, you wrote: >I'm looking for a copy of AutoCAD 12 for DOS -- circa mid-1990s. Can someone >perhaps copy the disks onto a CD for me (please)...? > >Of course, I'll pay for the CD and mailing. I don't need any documentation. > >Thanks, > > Evan > >===== >Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! >-- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address >-- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us >-- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all > >Visit the museums directory and read about past events >at our web site: http://news.computercollector.com > >Contact us at news@computercollector.com > >585 readers and counting! ---------------------------------------- Founder, Network Engineer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html ---------------------------------------- From asholz at topinform.de Thu Nov 11 01:54:24 2004 From: asholz at topinform.de (Andreas Holz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Xerox GUI on a PC??? In-Reply-To: <110220040258.2261.4186F7C100043987000008D52160466648040A0B020A900C@att.net> References: <110220040258.2261.4186F7C100043987000008D52160466648040A0B020A900C@att.net> Message-ID: <41931AB0.2070202@topinform.com> cvendel@att.net wrote: There is an commercial emulator of the LISP-System (e.g. Lyric Lisp) running on Dandelions and Stars available. An application (Xerox LFG Grammar Writer's Workbench) running in this emulator with a subset of the emulation running on Linux is available at Xerox. Please have a look at: http://www2.parc.com/istl/groups/nltt/medley/. Andreas >Is there a PD program that can be downloaded to run a PC to give it the look & feel of the original Xerox Altos or Star 8010 ??? > > > >Curt > > > > From james at jdfogg.com Thu Nov 11 04:26:53 2004 From: james at jdfogg.com (james) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Scanning books (was: Stuff Available Ft. Wayne IN In-Reply-To: <20041110183715.T21970@shell.lmi.net> References: <5ECE3D898910AC4497A172FAFA33D2CA0AC493@ACDFWMAIL1.acd.de.ittind.com> <9833D0FE-2CEA-11D9-8438-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <16775.46413.704460.136779@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <41924A23.5736BAAB@msm.umr.edu> <000a01c4c796$1b0ee7c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <20041110183715.T21970@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <1100168813.1566.6.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> On Wed, 2004-11-10 at 21:57, Fred Cisin wrote: > On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, John Allain wrote: > > I have the paper manual here somewhere. It's bound (soft) so > > may be a pain to scan. It's about time for someone to make an > > "open book scanner", one with a wedge of glass that you can > > drop the book onto. I don't want this binding opened 180? flat. Xerox and others make photocopiers for this. The glass extends all the way to the side of the machine and you hang the book on the side. Maybe someone makes a scanner like this. Check with a very large library or university library. Otherwise, the way this is handled is to shear the binding off the book. You will loose a fraction of an inch of the inside margins. You need a bulk paper shear, which print shops almost always have. The book can be re-bound following scanning for a small fee. Just save the covers by cutting them off the binding before shearing. From GOOI at oce.nl Thu Nov 11 06:29:39 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: one more question about pdp8/e console switches behaviour Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A011133B3@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Hmm, is that behaviour of a real pdp8/e console logical? I am not saying it is wrong; perhaps the impementation DIGITAL made is a little strange ...? When you activate HALT (or SING STEP), the top row of lights show the Memory Address (aka the Program Counter, PC). When the knob is then set at "MD" the current instruction (at PC) is displayed on the 'data' row of lights below the Memory Address. So far so good (correct?). When you press EXAM the *first* time, the data still shows what is at memory location [PC], but the Memory Address shows [PC+1] ... That would mean that the displayed data and the displayed Memory Address *can* be out of 'sync'. Only after you pressed EXAM at least once you are sure that the displayed data is from location minus one from the displayed Memory Address. Is my understanding correct? Other question. Is the increment after EXAM (and DEP) *always* done on the pdp8/e? The reason I'm asking is that on PDP-11's the repeated sequence EXAM / DEP / EXAM / DEP, etc. does *not* increment the address. Address increment is only done when EXAM is pressed after EXAM was pressed. Likewise for a DEP / DEP sequence. again, TIA, - Henk, PA8PDP. > The position is always relevant, but you don't set it to AC. You set > it to MD (Memory Data). And when you press EXAM (or DEP), the address > displayed on the upper row will increment (but the data displayed will > remain the same, the data for the address that was current when you > pressed EXAM/DEP). From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Nov 11 08:17:09 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Build your own Enigma! References: Message-ID: <16787.29797.921000.334022@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell writes: >> >> >> This is really cool: >> >> http://www.xat.nl/enigma-e/ Tony> What's the point? If you want an Enigma copy, then build a real Tony> mechanical one (not at all impossible in a good home Tony> workshop). It's been done. There's a website that I can't find right now, belonging to a Dutch lady artist, who has recreated an Enigma in that way. Actually, hers is subtly different from the original, but it's all mechanical and it certainly encrypts like an Enigma. paul From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Nov 11 08:26:15 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Shipping a Model 33 (RO) Teletype In-Reply-To: <20041110234019.37485.qmail@web81304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041111092615.00a2cca0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Styrrofoam peanuts definitely won't do. Heavy items like theis will quickly sink right to the bottom and then they'll bounce around like they had no padding at all. If nothing else go to Home Depot and buy sheets of styrofoam or heavy insulating foam and cut them to size and pad the box with those. In addition, the peanuts will get chewed into small bits and will get into EVERYTHING. A friend of mine shipped me six large boxs of heavy manuals in three ring binders packed in peanuts and the pieces of styrofoam got into every nook and cranny and even betweenthe pages. It took a couple of days to get the majority of it out but even today when I open one of those manuals bits of styrofoam fall out from between the pages. If you have to pack stuff in styrofoam peanuts at least put the stuff into a sealed plastic bag first to keep the styrofoam out of it. Joe At 03:40 PM 11/10/04 -0800, you wrote: >I've bought a model 33 off eBay. The seller doesn't >really know how to ship one -- he's just got it in a >box with styrofoam peanuts. I'm trying to give him >some instructions on how to do it right. I recall >that >there is a shipping screw that must be locked, but >don't remember the details. Can anyone give me some >instructions I can pass on to him? If anyone has >shipped one of these, I'd like to know what worked and >what didn't. I remember a few stories of machines >damaged in transit showing up on the list. > >Thanks, > >--Bill > > From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Nov 11 08:59:49 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Shipping a Model 33 (RO) Teletype In-Reply-To: <20041110234019.37485.qmail@web81304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041110234019.37485.qmail@web81304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi You should also remove the motor and ship in a different box. This is the most massive part of the machine and causes it to float unevenly in peanuts.There is a site for pdp's that has the manuals on line that will show how to lock down the printer. I don't have the URL handy right now but a search should find it. It is in the classiccmp archives someplace. Dwight On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, William Maddox wrote: > I've bought a model 33 off eBay. The seller doesn't > really know how to ship one -- he's just got it in a > box with styrofoam peanuts. I'm trying to give him > some instructions on how to do it right. I recall > that > there is a shipping screw that must be locked, but > don't remember the details. Can anyone give me some > instructions I can pass on to him? If anyone has > shipped one of these, I'd like to know what worked and > what didn't. I remember a few stories of machines > damaged in transit showing up on the list. > > Thanks, > > --Bill > > > From kth at srv.net Thu Nov 11 09:15:00 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Shipping a Model 33 (RO) Teletype In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041111092615.00a2cca0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041111092615.00a2cca0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <419381F4.2030800@srv.net> Joe R. wrote: > Styrrofoam peanuts definitely won't do. Heavy items like theis will quickly sink right to the bottom and then they'll bounce around like they had no padding at all. If nothing else go to Home Depot and buy sheets of styrofoam or heavy insulating foam and cut them to size and pad the box with those. In addition, the peanuts will get chewed into small bits and will get into EVERYTHING. A friend of mine shipped me six large boxs of heavy manuals in three ring binders packed in peanuts and the pieces of styrofoam got into every nook and cranny and even betweenthe pages. It took a couple of days to get the majority of it out but even today when I open one of those manuals bits of styrofoam fall out from between the pages. If you have to pack stuff in styrofoam peanuts at least put the stuff into a sealed plastic bag first to keep the styrofoam out of it. > > Joe > > One "how-not-to-ship" that happened to a company I deal with. They received a snow-machine engine that needed fixing. The shipper placed it in a box, and then sprayed instant-foam insulation material around it. It had not been wrapped in plastic (or anything else) first. Took them much longer to clean it than to repair it. From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Nov 11 09:57:50 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: DEC Docs, Diagrams, and Diags. on Microfische In-Reply-To: <1060.192.168.0.116.1100162928.squirrel@office.brothom.nl> References: <3.0.6.32.20041110140641.00961980@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1100114672.32683.36.camel@weka.localdomain> <1060.192.168.0.116.1100162928.squirrel@office.brothom.nl> Message-ID: > > On Wed, 2004-11-10 at 14:06 -0500, Joe R. wrote: >> I'll ask if he's got a list what exactly what DEC fiches he has. If >> someone lives close to the museum on this side of the pond and has free >> access to a fiche scanner, then do speak up :) > >I recently inquired a few companies here in Holland. Most of them charge >EUR 0.05-0.15 per page! One company however claimed they could scan the >whole fiche at once, for EUR 1,25 per fiche. Still not cheap, but doable >IMHO. > >Bert Not sure what the exchange rate is between $US and EUR, but last I checked it was about $0.05-.15 per page here. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Nov 11 09:55:15 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: one more question about pdp8/e console switches behaviour References: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A011133B3@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Message-ID: <41938B63.7040900@jetnet.ab.ca> Gooijen H wrote: > That would mean that the displayed data and the displayed Memory > Address *can* be out of 'sync'. Only after you pressed EXAM at least > once you are sure that the displayed data is from location minus one > from the displayed Memory Address. > Is my understanding correct? That is correct reading from the PDP-8 Handbook, both the PC and MAR are incrimented. ADDR LOAD is normaly used to start a program so that is no problem if you are not stepping thru a program. From djg at drs-c4i.com Thu Nov 11 11:32:50 2004 From: djg at drs-c4i.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: one more question about pdp8/e console switches behaviour Message-ID: <200411111732.iABHWoj32505@drs-c4i.com> I think people have answered your questions but if not my online PDP-8 interface should work like the real front panel. It is a real 8/E but the web interface is a custom board I made. I copied the front panel logic so it should act the same and it seemed to in my testing. http://www.pdp8.net/run.shtml David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. Have any PDP-8 stuff you're willing to part with? From fernande at internet1.net Thu Nov 11 11:33:11 2004 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Nice PDP-Stuff available from Michigan State University In-Reply-To: <200411102342.iAANg6fO023391@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> References: <200411102342.iAANg6fO023391@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> Message-ID: <4193A257.1050804@internet1.net> Can you explain more? Can you see MSU's Surplus area from the road? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Dennis Boone wrote: > You can bet I'll be on Harrison Road regularly looking for this stuff > to appear. > > De > > From david_comley at yahoo.com Thu Nov 11 11:54:00 2004 From: david_comley at yahoo.com (David Comley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Shipping a Model 33 (RO) Teletype In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041111175400.25775.qmail@web13522.mail.yahoo.com> Bill - Peanuts weren't really enough when my ASR-33 was shipped, and because of the way the weight is distributed in the unit on its stand, it could wind up travelling upside down for most of its journey. Try to have the shipper pay special attention to the plastic cover that fits on the top. This is made from a very brittle material and will shatter easily (as happened to mine in transit). The cover can be removed easily enough for shipping, perhaps in a separate box. Dave --- Ashley Carder wrote: > > I've bought a model 33 off eBay. The seller > doesn't > > really know how to ship one -- he's just got it in > a > > box with styrofoam peanuts. I'm trying to give > him > > some instructions on how to do it right. I recall > > that > > there is a shipping screw that must be locked, but > > don't remember the details. Can anyone give me > some > > instructions I can pass on to him? If anyone has > > shipped one of these, I'd like to know what worked > and > > what didn't. I remember a few stories of machines > > damaged in transit showing up on the list. > > > > Thanks, > > > > --Bill > > I recently bought a working ASR-33 from a company > that > used to do maintenance on these things. They did > put the > shpping bolt in it, and it was inserted underneath > the > keyboard area from outside the bottom cover. It > seems > that it was about 3 or 4 inches long with a big > washer > on the end. Since I bought mine in working > condition, > I went ahead and paid a little extra to have it > strapped > to a pallet, wrapped with some bubble wrap and foam, > and > covered with a cardboard box shaped to fit. I bought > an > LA36 DecWriter at the same time and both were > shipped on > the same palllet. I used FedEx Freight, which did a > fine > job delivering it. > > I don't know what else to tell you, but I do know > that > mine survived the trip and worked perfectly when I > tested > it out. I have heard of others who were not quite > as > fortunate. > > Ashley > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Nov 11 12:04:08 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:36 2005 Subject: Shipping a Model 33 (RO) Teletype In-Reply-To: <20041111175400.25775.qmail@web13522.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041111175400.25775.qmail@web13522.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have shipped a couple of these over the years - I always had good luck by removing the machine from it's pedestal entirely, and shipping them in separate boxes. Also, fixing the locking bolt down on the typing unit before shipping is critical. Once the 33 is in it's 'tabletop' configuration, it's very easy to pack it up nicely, and the pedestal, being just light-guage sheet metal, also travels well, if you block it from being crushed. In the case of the original post, however, all this depends on the relative skill of the Seller - and often that is sadly lacking. Cheers John From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Thu Nov 11 12:08:37 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim stephens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: I need 5251 keyboard photo Message-ID: <4193AAA5.15751EC9@msm.umr.edu> I need a photo of a 5251 keyboard with enough detail to make out the keyboard layout if possible. email if you can scan or photograph one for me from some place. thanks, jim From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Thu Nov 11 12:09:48 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Toshiba T4400 password In-Reply-To: <20041111005559.WRIE11272.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: <008501c4c819$a31338a0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > If you have a parallel port, you should be able to do it. I > have never done > this myself, however it is reported by many to work on > Toshiba laptops: [snip methods] I got my 300MHz Tecra for nothing because it had a password. I can attest that the parallel port method works for that model at least! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Nov 11 12:16:57 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Shipping a Model 33 (RO) Teletype In-Reply-To: References: <20041111175400.25775.qmail@web13522.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Removing the cover and motor to ship in different boxes still is a good idea. The one I got was a mess. The box wax partially opened and I had to search the packing to, luckily, find the H piece that goes between the keboard and the printer. Dwight On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, John Lawson wrote: > > > I have shipped a couple of these over the years - I always had good luck by > removing the machine from it's pedestal entirely, and shipping them in > separate boxes. Also, fixing the locking bolt down on the typing unit before > shipping is critical. > > Once the 33 is in it's 'tabletop' configuration, it's very easy to pack it > up nicely, and the pedestal, being just light-guage sheet metal, also travels > well, if you block it from being crushed. > > In the case of the original post, however, all this depends on the relative > skill of the Seller - and often that is sadly lacking. > > Cheers > > John > > > > > From brian at quarterbyte.com Thu Nov 11 12:28:02 2004 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Shipping a Model 33 (RO) Teletype Message-ID: <41933EB2.25711.6AFF9491@localhost> Definitely do not let them ship it in a box filled with peanuts. With a heavy object, some sort of liquefaction occurs and the object bangs around inside the box. Poured foam can work if the thing is sealed in a plastic bag. I've had very good luck when the shipper has used pieces of rigid styrofoam, even scraps broken up from the large styrofoam castings used to ship monitors or computers, fit tightly on all six sides of the object being shipped, leaving no empty volume. I just received a paper tape punch and reader from the Netherlands shipped this way and there wasn't a crack or scratch. Brian =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _| _| _| Brian Knittel _| _| _| Quarterbyte Systems, Inc. _| _| _| Tel: 1-510-559-7930 _| _| _| Fax: 1-510-525-6889 _| _| _| Email: brian@quarterbyte.com _| _| _| http://www.quarterbyte.com From marvin at rain.org Thu Nov 11 13:00:39 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Needs Rescuing - Tektronics Terminal Message-ID: <4193B6D7.FE35CA35@rain.org> A friend of mine has two Tektronics T-4109 terminals w/ keyboards and graphics tablet that need to go away today or tomorrow. Does anyone want these? I can pick them up and hold for a short while if necessary. From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Nov 11 13:01:04 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Nice PDP-Stuff available from Michigan State University In-Reply-To: <200411102342.iAANg6fO023391@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> from "Dennis Boone" at Nov 10, 2004 06:42:06 PM Message-ID: <200411111901.iABJ14RJ012397@onyx.spiritone.com> > > >DEC PDP 11/93 - RSX11M+ > > You can bet I'll be on Harrison Road regularly looking for this stuff > to appear. I don't blame you, it sounds like a killer pile of stuff, I wish I was closer, as an -11/93 is about the only classic HW I really want! Zane From liste at artware.qc.ca Thu Nov 11 12:05:53 2004 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Toshiba T4400 password In-Reply-To: <20041111005559.WRIE11272.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: On 11-Nov-2004 Dave Dunfield wrote: > Philip, > > If you have a parallel port, you should be able to do it. I have never > done this myself, however it is reported by many to work on Toshiba > laptops: Aha, so there's hope. > Of course this will only work if you can still boot the machine. Machine boots, but asks for a password. > If you give up on it or otherwise decide to unload it, I have some > interest I'm trying to convince myself that I don't want it. Because while it's a plasma screen, and could probably run linux or bsd, and the docking station has an ISA slot for a NIC, I DON'T NEED ANOTHER COMPUTER. Ideally, I'd pick it up, play around a bit, then get it to you. -Philip From marvin at rain.org Thu Nov 11 13:21:18 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Needs Rescuing - Tektronics Terminal Message-ID: <4193BBAE.78BD910D@rain.org> Oops, I should have mentioned that these are in Santa Barbara, California. His comment was that these are in pristine condition (although they are probably dusty from where they have been sitting.) From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Nov 11 13:28:10 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: one more question about pdp8/e console switches behaviour In-Reply-To: Gooijen H "RE: one more question about pdp8/e console switches behaviour" (Nov 11, 13:29) References: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A011133B3@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Message-ID: <10411111928.ZM9664@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 11 2004, 13:29, Gooijen H wrote: > Hmm, is that behaviour of a real pdp8/e console logical? > I am not saying it is wrong; perhaps the impementation DIGITAL > made is a little strange ...? I think it's perfectly logical. When you press EXAM, it increments the address ready to read the next word. When you press DEP, it increments the address ready for the next entry. Unlike a PDP-11, where sometimes it increments, sometimes not, and you have to remember the rules :-) It's just a different way of doing it. Remember this is a simpler machine, designed some years before the -11. > When you activate HALT (or SING STEP), the top row of lights > show the Memory Address (aka the Program Counter, PC). > When the knob is then set at "MD" the current instruction (at PC) > is displayed on the 'data' row of lights below the Memory Address. > So far so good (correct?). Yes, if you HALT a running program, that's correct. It displays the address just about to be used, logically, so that if you press CONT it starts at the address which is displayed, just as if you did an ADDR LOAD of that address, and then pressed CONT. > When you press EXAM the *first* time, the data still shows what > is at memory location [PC], but the Memory Address shows [PC+1] ... Yes. It shows the word at the address that was displayed just before you pressed EXAM. Having pressed EXAM, it then displays the next address. > That would mean that the displayed data and the displayed Memory > Address *can* be out of 'sync'. Only after you pressed EXAM at least > once you are sure that the displayed data is from location minus one > from the displayed Memory Address. > Is my understanding correct? It's not really out of sync. When running, or after a HALT, and BEFORE you tamper with any switches, the display shows the current address and the data at that address. Which is probably what you want, most of the time. If you then press EXAM, you will get the data from whatever address was current (and displayed) just before you press EXAM. If you press DEP instead, the data you write would go to the address that was current, and displayed, just before you pressed DEP. When you press either of those keys, the address is incremented ready for the next EXAM or DEP. > Other question. > Is the increment after EXAM (and DEP) *always* done on the pdp8/e? It's always done. It's done as you press the switch down. > The reason I'm asking is that on PDP-11's the repeated sequence > EXAM / DEP / EXAM / DEP, etc. does *not* increment the address. > Address increment is only done when EXAM is pressed after EXAM > was pressed. Likewise for a DEP / DEP sequence. PDP-8 users get the DEP right the first time, and don't need to check it ;-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From news at computercollector.com Thu Nov 11 13:47:45 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Now available: Guide to U.S. Computer Museums, 2005 Edition Message-ID: <20041111194746.18878.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, Evan K. here again with a (blatantly commercial) list message: as an extension of the newsletter, I've now published the Guide to U.S. Computer Museums, 2005 Edition. The guide is in booklet form. It includes explanations of the history, mission, and uniqueness of more than 20 museums across the country. It also includes GPS coordinates, to help you find the museums on trips to new places. There is an "additional resources" appendix too. The information in the booklet is much more detailed than what I've posted online before. For example, we all know the Computer History Museum, but do you know about the ones in Kansas, Rhode Island, and Virginia? Do you know about the Perham Collection or the Historical Electronics Museum? Do you know where you can tour a supercomputer or see an original Enigma decoder machine? LOL, and for your talkative list members, the above questions are not intended for endless discussion here... they're just to make a point. :) Anyway, it took some time and effort and money to compile all of this information, so here's the commercial part (sorry, Mr. West!): I'm selling the booklets for $6 each (or $10 for two). There is also a $1 shipping cost, per every two copies -- makes a terrific holiday gift for your favorite traveling nerd. The booklets are available at my web site, http://news.computercollector.com ... thanks for reading this, - EK ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit the museums directory and read about past events at our web site: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 585 readers and counting! From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Nov 11 13:44:47 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Toshiba T4400 password In-Reply-To: <008501c4c819$a31338a0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> References: <008501c4c819$a31338a0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <7be0500c4d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <008501c4c819$a31338a0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> "Antonio Carlini" wrote: > I got my 300MHz Tecra for nothing because it had a password. > > I can attest that the parallel port method works for > that model at least! Lucky dog! I've got a Toshiba T2130CS (yes, the loopback adapter will kill the password on '2130s) and a Panasonic CF-25. The CF-25 is the more powerful of the two, and the more rugged. Magnesium alloy casing and internal framework, impact-protected TFT LCD, synthetic gel HDD shock-absorber, shock-proof floppy drive, shock-resistant CD drive. P133 CPU, 32MB RAM, 3.2GB HDD, 3x PCMCIA slots (one taken up by a Xircom IIps CreditCard Ethernet adapter). And it's yellow. And it's well outside of the 10-year rule (1998 manufacture date), but it's a neat little machine, even though it's a PC. Only thing I don't like is the fact that you can't hot swap the CD and floppy drives. It is, however, water resistant - spill a drink on the keyboard and you'll probably end up pulling it to bits to remove the gunk, but the keyboard switches will likely be fully operational. At the moment, I'm using mine for electronics CAD and software development. EAGLE 4.13 and Slackware Linux work great on it, as does Win98 . Cost me ?124 for the machine and about ?25 for the floppy drive. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... 1024x768x256 - sounds like one *mean* woman! From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Nov 11 13:52:31 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Now available: Guide to U.S. Computer Museums, 2005 Edition References: <20041111194746.18878.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4193C2FF.1040708@jetnet.ab.ca> Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter wrote: > Evan K. here again with a (blatantly commercial) list message: as an extension > of the newsletter, I've now published the Guide to U.S. Computer Museums, 2005 > Edition. The guide is in booklet form. > We really want a BIG IRON buying guide in the U.S. with truck routes easly identified. Ben. PS. Optional -- places to hide out from when the SO comes looking for you. ----- On Topic: What about Canada and the UK guide if we have any Museums? From evan947 at yahoo.com Thu Nov 11 13:58:40 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Now available: Guide to U.S. Computer Museums, 2005 Edition In-Reply-To: <4193C2FF.1040708@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20041111195840.40605.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> That's in the 2006 Edition. :) --- ben franchuk wrote: > Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter wrote: > > > Evan K. here again with a (blatantly commercial) list message: as an > extension > > of the newsletter, I've now published the Guide to U.S. Computer Museums, > 2005 > > Edition. The guide is in booklet form. > > > > We really want a BIG IRON buying guide in the U.S. with truck routes > easly identified. > Ben. > PS. Optional -- places to hide out from when the SO comes looking for you. > > ----- > On Topic: What about Canada and the UK guide if we have any Museums? > > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit the museums directory and read about past events at our web site: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 585 readers and counting! From marvin at rain.org Thu Nov 11 14:11:49 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Needs Rescuing - Tektronics Terminal Message-ID: <4193C785.A7F95B0F@rain.org> The terminals have been spoken for. From tomj at wps.com Thu Nov 11 14:17:33 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Shipping a Model 33 (RO) Teletype In-Reply-To: <20041110234019.37485.qmail@web81304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041110234019.37485.qmail@web81304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, William Maddox wrote: It WILL be damaged if shipped without the locking screw. This comes up often enough that someone with an ASR 33 should mock up the operation with photos and post in on the web with good metas for google to find. I don't have a 33 or I would offer to do it. ID the threads and all, "borrow" one from elsewher in the machine, and maybe a photo of a RUINED one for constrast! > I've bought a model 33 off eBay. The seller doesn't > really know how to ship one -- he's just got it in a > box with styrofoam peanuts. I'm trying to give him > some instructions on how to do it right. I recall > that > there is a shipping screw that must be locked, but > don't remember the details. Can anyone give me some > instructions I can pass on to him? If anyone has > shipped one of these, I'd like to know what worked and > what didn't. I remember a few stories of machines > damaged in transit showing up on the list. > > Thanks, > > --Bill > From tomj at wps.com Thu Nov 11 14:24:27 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Shipping a Model 33 (RO) Teletype In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041111092615.00a2cca0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041111092615.00a2cca0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > Styrrofoam peanuts definitely won't do. You're being awfully nice :-) Styrofoam "peanuts" are like a cosmic conspiracy or something. Except for a few wimpy, trivial packing jobs where any number of alternative materials/methods would work, they're useless. Plus, it's expanded plastic for sh*t's sake, and gets all over the place, makes for terrible landfill, toxic when burned, aesthetically irritating at best, and they crumble into everything. I used to save them, along with bubble wrap, expanded paper, boxes etc, for re-use but no longer, directly into recycling they go. I know about the idea of re-use but they degrade the objects they pack as they get "re used". The cornstarch based ones appear to be less horrid, but are equally useless. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Nov 11 10:54:05 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: DEC Docs, Diagrams, and Diags. on Microfische In-Reply-To: References: <1060.192.168.0.116.1100162928.squirrel@office.brothom.nl> <3.0.6.32.20041110140641.00961980@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1100114672.32683.36.camel@weka.localdomain> <1060.192.168.0.116.1100162928.squirrel@office.brothom.nl> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041111115405.0096b650@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:57 AM 11/11/04 -0800, you wrote: >> > On Wed, 2004-11-10 at 14:06 -0500, Joe R. wrote: >>> I'll ask if he's got a list what exactly what DEC fiches he has. If >>> someone lives close to the museum on this side of the pond and has free >>> access to a fiche scanner, then do speak up :) >> >>I recently inquired a few companies here in Holland. Most of them charge >>EUR 0.05-0.15 per page! One company however claimed they could scan the >>whole fiche at once, for EUR 1,25 per fiche. Still not cheap, but doable >>IMHO. >> >>Bert > >Not sure what the exchange rate is between $US and EUR, but last I >checked it was about $0.05-.15 per page here. > > Zane My daughter just returned from a year in france. IIRC she said that the EURO is worth about $2.40 US. Joe From millenniumfalcon at cableone.net Thu Nov 11 14:43:58 2004 From: millenniumfalcon at cableone.net (millenniumfalcon@cableone.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Needs Rescuing - Tektronics Terminal Message-ID: <79100-220041141120435881@M2W057.mail2web.com> Where are they? Original Message: ----------------- From: Marvin Johnston marvin@rain.org Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:00:39 -0800 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Needs Rescuing - Tektronics Terminal A friend of mine has two Tektronics T-4109 terminals w/ keyboards and graphics tablet that need to go away today or tomorrow. Does anyone want these? I can pick them up and hold for a short while if necessary. -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Thu Nov 11 14:46:55 2004 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: DEC Docs, Diagrams, and Diags. on Microfische In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041111115405.0096b650@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Am donderdag, 11.11.04, um 17:54 Uhr (Europe/Zurich) schrieb Joe R.: > At 07:57 AM 11/11/04 -0800, you wrote: >>>> On Wed, 2004-11-10 at 14:06 -0500, Joe R. wrote: >>>> I'll ask if he's got a list what exactly what DEC fiches he has. If >>>> someone lives close to the museum on this side of the pond and has >>>> free >>>> access to a fiche scanner, then do speak up :) >>> >>> I recently inquired a few companies here in Holland. Most of them >>> charge >>> EUR 0.05-0.15 per page! One company however claimed they could scan >>> the >>> whole fiche at once, for EUR 1,25 per fiche. Still not cheap, but >>> doable >>> IMHO. >>> >>> Bert >> >> Not sure what the exchange rate is between $US and EUR, but last I >> checked it was about $0.05-.15 per page here. >> >> Zane > > My daughter just returned from a year in france. IIRC she said that > the EURO is worth about $2.40 US. > Its actually 1.3 USD = 1 Eur. All conversions can be easliy done on www.xe.com Mind you, with 4 more years of GWB, the 2.4 might come true. Jos > From aek at spies.com Thu Nov 11 14:46:51 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Scanning books Message-ID: <20041111204651.682F744E4@spies.com> > Otherwise, the way this is handled is to shear the binding off the book. Sewn book bindings can be disassembled without shearing. Take the journals apart then scan the left and right pages sequentially. Most glued bindings and be peeled apart in a similar manner. In fact, it's difficult to keep a glued binding from falling apart if it's older than 20 years. The problem with shearing a binding is you have to make absolutely, positively sure that all of the pages are aligned, or you take a 'C' shaped cut out of the bound edge of the book. By the time you get a book down to the size where you can make sure the stacks are straight, you may as well have taken them all apart by hand. From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Nov 11 14:51:54 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: DEC Docs, Diagrams, and Diags. on Microfische References: <1060.192.168.0.116.1100162928.squirrel@office.brothom.nl> <3.0.6.32.20041110140641.00961980@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1100114672.32683.36.camel@weka.localdomain> <1060.192.168.0.116.1100162928.squirrel@office.brothom.nl> <3.0.6.32.20041111115405.0096b650@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <009301c4c830$46fd7e60$0200fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 11:54 AM Subject: Re: DEC Docs, Diagrams, and Diags. on Microfische > At 07:57 AM 11/11/04 -0800, you wrote: > >> > On Wed, 2004-11-10 at 14:06 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > >>> I'll ask if he's got a list what exactly what DEC fiches he has. If > >>> someone lives close to the museum on this side of the pond and has free > >>> access to a fiche scanner, then do speak up :) > >> > >>I recently inquired a few companies here in Holland. Most of them charge > >>EUR 0.05-0.15 per page! One company however claimed they could scan the > >>whole fiche at once, for EUR 1,25 per fiche. Still not cheap, but doable > >>IMHO. > >> > >>Bert > > > >Not sure what the exchange rate is between $US and EUR, but last I > >checked it was about $0.05-.15 per page here. > > > > Zane > > My daughter just returned from a year in france. IIRC she said that the EURO is worth about $2.40 US. > > Joe > > http://www.x-rates.com/d/EUR/USD/graph120.html 1 USD is worth .77 EURO, so 1 EURO is $1.30 or so, where did you come up with $2.40, somebody got ripped. From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Nov 11 14:53:42 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Euros (was: DEC Docs, Diagrams, and Diags. on Microfische In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041111115405.0096b650@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <1060.192.168.0.116.1100162928.squirrel@office.brothom.nl> <3.0.6.32.20041110140641.00961980@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1100114672.32683.36.camel@weka.localdomain> <1060.192.168.0.116.1100162928.squirrel@office.brothom.nl> <3.0.6.32.20041111115405.0096b650@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20041111124851.B38292@shell.lmi.net> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > My daughter just returned from a year in france. IIRC she said that > the EURO is worth about $2.40 US. I sure hope that that is what she GOT for her Euros, NOT what she paid for them! I would sell my Euros for $1.50 each. BofA currently lists the Euro at $1.36 I don't think that it has EVER been much higher than that. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Nov 11 14:56:17 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Nice PDP-Stuff available from Michigan State University In-Reply-To: <200411111901.iABJ14RJ012397@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200411102342.iAANg6fO023391@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> <200411111901.iABJ14RJ012397@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <20041111205617.GA32550@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 11:01:04AM -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I don't blame you, it sounds like a killer pile of stuff, I wish I was > closer, as an -11/93 is about the only classic HW I really want! That's on my list, too; but even if I were home, that'd be more than a quick trip to consider retrieving it. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 11-Nov-2004 20:51 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -41.2 F (-40.7 C) Windchill -73.3 F (-58.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 14.2 kts Grid 355 Barometer 690.2 mb (10242. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From vaxlion at postal.lionsden.com Thu Nov 11 14:59:31 2004 From: vaxlion at postal.lionsden.com (Michael) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Hold the scanners! (was DEC Docs, Diagrams, and Diags. on Microfische) Message-ID: <4193D2B3.8080503@postal.lionsden.com> Hi Folks, Long time lurker, first time poster here. I'm the seller of the microfiche collection up on ebay. I apologize that I haven't jump in here sooner and talked about this. The collection HAS been scanned into a ~4GB set of jpegs and tiffs. A professional scanning company was used: www.data2cd.com. At the time, over 2 years now, they were the cheapest and scanned per microfiche. Due to time constrains, absent-mindedness, and bandwidth limitations, I haven't made the files available. The scans are only organized into pages per microfiche... no other sorting or labeling has been done. In some cases, there are more than one set of documents present on a microfiche. There are some pages were data2cd was not able to extract enough detail. Either the density was beyond their equipment and/or the original page was not transfered/photographed correctly. I'd be very happy to flood someone's connection for a weekend to transfer the files over with the promise to organize and host the files for the general vintage computing public. Ideally, it would be nice to have these organized into PDFs. Also, it would be nice to throw some files at an OCR to extract the diagnostic source code. My recommendation is to bet on the auction if you have a desire to collect such material and can preserve it. Please don't bet with the only intention to scan these -- that's already been done! -- Michael From tomj at wps.com Thu Nov 11 15:09:32 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Hold the scanners! (was DEC Docs, Diagrams, and Diags. on Microfische) In-Reply-To: <4193D2B3.8080503@postal.lionsden.com> References: <4193D2B3.8080503@postal.lionsden.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, Michael wrote: > My recommendation is to bet on the auction if you have a desire to collect > such material and can preserve it. Please don't bet with the only intention to > scan these -- that's already been done! ohmigod -- a person with ethics! Let's flame him, then toss him off the list! :-) THE SECOND PART IS A JOKE. A JOKE. (I've got in trouble for ironic humor on other lists, so I'll be explicit from now on.) From tomj at wps.com Thu Nov 11 15:13:47 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: list woes? Message-ID: (Unrelated to Micheal's post, just the bearer of bad content from the list.) The message from Michael re: fiche has malformed To: data. Someone's not handling quotes properly! Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:59:31 -0500 From: Michael Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" To: General@apocalypse.org, "Discussion@apocalypse.org"@fiche.wps.com:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Hold the scanners! (was DEC Docs, Diagrams, and Diags. on Microfische) From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Nov 11 15:17:43 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Hold the scanners! (was DEC Docs, Diagrams, and Diags. on Microfische) In-Reply-To: <4193D2B3.8080503@postal.lionsden.com> References: <4193D2B3.8080503@postal.lionsden.com> Message-ID: <200411112120.QAA05985@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > The collection HAS been scanned into a ~4GB set of jpegs and tiffs. > I'd be very happy to flood someone's connection for a weekend to > transfer the files over with the promise to organize and host the > files for the general vintage computing public. I doubt I can do the "organize and host" bit. But-- are those scans backed up anywhere, or is there only one copy of them? I have 4G of space that can't easily be exported to the public, but would happily stash a copy to guard against things like disk failure. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Nov 11 15:22:47 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Hold the scanners! (was DEC Docs, Diagrams, and Diags. on Microfische) In-Reply-To: References: <4193D2B3.8080503@postal.lionsden.com> Message-ID: <1100208167.1585.115.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 13:09 -0800, Tom Jennings wrote: > On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, Michael wrote: > > > My recommendation is to bet on the auction if you have a desire to collect > > such material and can preserve it. Please don't bet with the only intention to > > scan these -- that's already been done! > > ohmigod -- a person with ethics! Let's flame him, then toss > him off the list! :-) > > > > > > > > THE SECOND PART IS A JOKE. A JOKE. > > (I've got in trouble for ironic humor on other lists, so I'll > be explicit from now on.) I hope he's not using a 5 line email client and forgot to scroll down on that one ;-) From aek at spies.com Thu Nov 11 15:28:37 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Hold the scanners! Message-ID: <20041111212837.955944395@spies.com> I'd be very happy to flood someone's connection for a weekend to transfer the files over with the promise to organize and host the files for the general vintage computing public. -- I can take care of this on bitsavers. From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Thu Nov 11 15:42:48 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Hold the scanners! In-Reply-To: <20041111212837.955944395@spies.com> Message-ID: <00b101c4c837$646fc6e0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > I can take care of this on bitsavers. A large collection of microfiche scanned and soon to be available - I think I'll pinch myself and come back later to see if I need to pich myself harder :-) Obviously the value would be greatly enhanced if we could knock up an index (document title or part number, where it starts, where it ends) and better yet if individual docs could be pulled out into separate pdfs. This would obviously take quite a bit of time, but perhaps we could organise ourselves and come up with a way of distributing the work. I think Project Gutenberg have a scheme for proof-reading where you basically offer to proof-read something (or a part of something) and there is some scheme for keeping track of which bits are done and which bits still need to be done. Do we have enough computer experience between us to pull this off? :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Nov 11 15:53:50 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: DEC Docs, Diagrams, and Diags. on Microfische References: <1060.192.168.0.116.1100162928.squirrel@office.brothom.nl> <3.0.6.32.20041110140641.00961980@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1100114672.32683.36.camel@weka.localdomain> <3.0.6.32.20041111115405.0096b650@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <16787.57198.329525.702209@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Joe" == Joe R writes: Joe> My daughter just returned from a year in france. IIRC she said Joe> that the EURO is worth about $2.40 US. That's incorrect; the right answer is around $1.20. paul From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Nov 11 15:59:47 2004 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: SoCal S/390 in Corona In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20041111135430.00a84cb0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Stopped at a scrap place in Corona, Calif and didn't see a bit of stuff I liked (ok a couple Apple II era cards, a test extender and a couple modems), but back in a corner was a nice looking pallet sized black and red IBM S/390 Parallel Enterprise server generation 4. The boss wasn't around, but the helper guy said he thinks its working, but may already have an offer of $1500 on it. Email me directly if I should find out more. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Nov 11 16:14:54 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Straight-8 spotted on James Burke's "Connections" Message-ID: <20041111221454.GB4491@bos7.spole.gov> I was watching "Connections", (either ep 4 or ep 5 - "Faith in Numbers" or "Wheel of Fortune", when about 3 min into the show, James Burke fires up a Straight-8 w/LED front-panel lights, and at least a couple of DECtape drives, all to control a planetarium. I just about fell off the couch! http://www.documentary-video.com/displayitem.cfm?vid=854 -ethan P.S. - to make this doubly on-topic, I was watching this on Betamax. I think the South Pole has the largest Beta repository on the planet - several hundred original tapes. I probably found about one or two a week to watch, all year long, from "Soylent Green" to "2001" to "Forbidden Planet", and lots more! -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 11-Nov-2004 22:01 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -40 F (-40.0 C) Windchill -72.59 F (-58.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 15.1 kts Grid 000 Barometer 690.3 mb (10238. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Nov 11 16:15:21 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: New Finds: SGI Indigo Win some, lose some Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041111171521.008f2430@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I took a brief trip out to one of my scrap^H^H^H^H^H er, treasure sources today. I didn't expect to find much and I wasn't disappointed if you catch my meaning. However I did find a loose board that looks suspiously like a SGI Indigo board which surprised me because I've never seen any Indigo stuff at this place. I brought home the board and checked on the net and found that it's fairly rare card for the Indigos. It's Real Time Video Capture Card, pn 030-8095-003. But unfortunately it's in really bad condition, something heavy was dropped on it and the board is cracked and at least one surface mount IC is broken in half :-( But the good news is that I also found a floppy disk drive in a SGI sled and it appears to be the right one for the Indigo. The one in my R4400 Indigo is flaky so the trip was worth it after all. Joe From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Nov 11 16:18:43 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Straight-8 spotted on James Burke's "Connections" In-Reply-To: <20041111221454.GB4491@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: > I was watching "Connections", (either ep 4 or ep 5 - "Faith in Numbers" or > "Wheel of Fortune", when about 3 min into the show, James Burke fires up a > Straight-8 w/LED front-panel lights, and at least a couple of DECtape drives, > all to control a planetarium. > > I just about fell off the couch! LARGE deal. The last episode (I think) has a better scene. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Nov 11 16:33:44 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Straight-8 spotted on James Burke's "Connections" References: <20041111221454.GB4491@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <4193E8C8.5080700@jetnet.ab.ca> Ethan Dicks wrote: > I was watching "Connections", (either ep 4 or ep 5 - "Faith in Numbers" or > "Wheel of Fortune", when about 3 min into the show, James Burke fires up a > Straight-8 w/LED front-panel lights, and at least a couple of DECtape drives, > all to control a planetarium. I liked the music that went with the scene. I just hope you are not planning to get that interface option. :) I wonder if that 8 is still in service in the UK? Ben. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Nov 11 16:45:06 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Hold the scanners! In-Reply-To: <20041111212837.955944395@spies.com> References: <20041111212837.955944395@spies.com> Message-ID: In message <20041111212837.955944395@spies.com> aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) wrote: > I'd be very happy to flood someone's connection for a weekend to > transfer the files over with the promise to organize and host the files > for the general vintage computing public. > > -- > > I can take care of this on bitsavers. Well, I was going to suggest Retroarchive - there isn't a DEC section as yet, but one can soon be added. To quote from the main page: Software and documentation for all computer systems is welcome here. Anything from the simplest 6502 based SBC to a huge VAX minicomputer; it has a home here. For software or information to be included in this site, it must be at least 10 years old. There are no restrictions as to what platform the software or documentation is for, as long as it passes the "classic" test of being 10 or more years old. For my purposes, this includes everything prior to 1993 Submissions to the site that are newer will be judged on a case by case basis. Speaking of Retroarchive, I really need to go through the HTML and fix a few bugs. If anyone finds any glitches, please let me (or Gene Buckle) know :) Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... In case of fire, yell FIRE! From aek at spies.com Thu Nov 11 16:56:24 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Hold the scanners! Message-ID: <20041111225624.A4B9B44FA@spies.com> > I was going to suggest Retroarchive You're certainly welcome to mirror bitsavers content, if you have a way to do mirroring via ftp. It is currently around 37gb. From gstreet at indy.net Thu Nov 11 17:08:35 2004 From: gstreet at indy.net (Robert Greenstreet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 15, Issue 15 In-Reply-To: <200411111618.iABGHqOS001730@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041111180835.00de0280@pop.onemain.com> > > > This is really cool: > > http://www.xat.nl/enigma-e/ > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------ >>What's the point? If you want an Enigma copy, then build a real >>mechanical one (not at all impossible in a good home workshop). If you >>want an encryption system, then use one of the many more secure ones that >>are available now, If for some reason you want to be able to >>encode/decode enigma messages, it's not hard to write a suitable program >>for a good handheld computer/calculator. >>This seems to be as pointless as those fake 'old radios' that look like >>pre-war sets but which have ICs inside (or the UK 'copies' of 1960's >>transistor portables with the FM band and ICs inside). If you want a >>valve radio, then get one... >>-tony ------------------------------------------------ OK, naysayers. Fine, be that way... But I commend anyone who takes the time to make such a kit. I think it's incredibly cool--just like the various emulations from the paper versions to the simulator versions to the real copies. They all took a great deal of thought and planning. "Dissing" something like this reminds me of when I still had a shot at flying for my once great company. One of the chief pilots in charge of (pilot) hiring had _nothing_ good to say about simulators at all. He especially _hated_ any PC version of a fltsim. In point of fact, ual had one of the best pilot training programs on the planet, and guess what(?), like all airlines, they train in the sim (full motion, awesomely realistic). The final checkride is in the real thing (to my knowledge, the final checkouts were done on revenue flights). Sims must not be all that bad, eh? Not everyone has access to full motion sims--in fact, almost no one does... I fell in love with the first sim I ever saw. It was a "terrain modeling board" based T-37 full motion sim. Later, we got to fly the cgi versions (which were nightime only, due to the limited graphics capabilities available when they were made). T-38 sims were all cgi based (No mechinal stuff to break down, and it was the instrumentation that they were interested in). In 1980, this stuff seemed "spaced-aged" (esp. the cgi sims, which were crude by today's standards). I've been following PC based fltsims since the early days (and they really were crude by today's standards). There are those who still have nothing good to say about PC-based sims, but I can't say enough good about them. Apparently, a difference in perception... (And, yes, I acknowledge that there is no substitute for the real thing, but they truly are one of the most efficient ways ever devised to turn gold into thin air, and they take up a lot of space and need lots of care and attention! It's definitely a trade-off...) Regards, Bob Greenstreet From tomj at wps.com Thu Nov 11 19:22:26 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: HP, Tek, IBM manuals on ebay Message-ID: Welp, my project car needs an engine so I'm selling trinkets on ePay. Some Tek and HP catalogs, a couple old ones. Two items are umm substantially priced, my IBM 7090 reference manuals. It's possibly, even likely, insane, but hey, it's only bits (and cash). I've got a bit of hardware I'll put up soon, like a working GRiDcase with expansion chassis, etc. From tomj at wps.com Thu Nov 11 19:53:15 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Hold the scanners! In-Reply-To: References: <20041111212837.955944395@spies.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, Philip Pemberton wrote: > > I can take care of this on bitsavers. > > Well, I was going to suggest Retroarchive 'begin' 'integer' i; 'for' i := 1 'step' 1 'until' 10000 'do' 'begin' outstring (1, "Make multiple copies!\n"); 'end' 'end' From rich_bramante at yahoo.com Thu Nov 11 20:07:36 2004 From: rich_bramante at yahoo.com (Rich Bramante) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: VINTAGE COMPUTER HOBBYIST COLLECTION Message-ID: <20041112020736.69485.qmail@web53209.mail.yahoo.com> I am forwarding this from the Boston Craigslist in case anybody is interested. Reply to: anon-48640258@craigslist.org ================================================================= I have a 5x10ft storage locker with 24 years worth of computing, but now I am moving and have to get rid of it. You can keep this in your own collection or sell it on eBay. Help me clean it out within the next few weeks by taking all of it. To keep it serious I'll accept offers for one week. If no offers, not even token offers, I'll take it all to the dump myself. I have a pickup truck and can help transport if you pay gas. Located and available to be seen in Londonderry, NH, at exit 5 off Interstate 93. Little of this stuff is usable in a modern environment, but it all worked when taken out of service. Apple //e. Monochrome and 13-in digital color monitors, 5MB Corvus hard drive, Imagewriter 1 printer. Many cards and accessories. Complete Apple Pascal and Modula-2 system. A whole bunch of software and manuals. Macintosh Plus. 20MB hard drive. Many accessories. Software and manuals. Compaq II 80286 portable computer with 20MB hard drive. Canon 8086 computer and monitor. 80286 IBM AT clone with monitor. All these would make good Minix systems to toy with. 8088 computer and monitor with floppy drives. 80386 DOS laptop. HP Omnibook 300 ultraportable Windows notebook. Sun IPX Solaris UNIX workstation with disk array, 19-inch color monitor, keyboard, mouse. HP Laserjet 3P (needs board). A couple of Epson inkjet printers. A couple of Microtek SCSI flatbed optical scanners. Hundreds of manuals and books, especially on Pascal and Unix, will sell separately or keep but won't give away. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Nov 11 20:14:18 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: HP, Tek, IBM manuals on ebay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041111211418.0097d2b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Do you want to give us a pointer to them or do we just guess which ones are your's? Joe At 05:22 PM 11/11/04 -0800, Tom wrote: >Welp, my project car needs an engine so I'm selling trinkets >on ePay. > >Some Tek and HP catalogs, a couple old ones. > >Two items are umm substantially priced, my IBM 7090 reference >manuals. It's possibly, even likely, insane, but hey, it's only >bits (and cash). > > >I've got a bit of hardware I'll put up soon, like a working >GRiDcase with expansion chassis, etc. > From aek at spies.com Thu Nov 11 20:07:43 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Hold the scanners! Message-ID: <20041112020743.2D86844C6@spies.com> > outstring (1, "Make multiple copies!\n"); about 700mb (~200 sheets) are on bitsavers after about 2.5 hours. they are in a hidden directory that the ftp mirrors will pick up. i'm guessing it will be some time in the early morning when the transfer finishes. the good news is the diagnostic listings look OK. the bad news is they were scanned with an effective resolution of 200dpi, which is going to make it very iffy to OCR. bundling the diagnostic listings into pdfs combining multiple sheets and adding page numbers should be fairly easy to automate. From allain at panix.com Thu Nov 11 20:44:05 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Hold the scanners! (was DEC Docs, Diagrams, and Diags. on Microfische) References: <4193D2B3.8080503@postal.lionsden.com> Message-ID: <016401c4c861$7ae49480$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I'd be very happy to flood someone's connection > for a weekend to transfer the files over with the > promise to organize and host the files I'm interested, but have no bandwidth. Can I analyze the files from a CD? John A. From allain at panix.com Thu Nov 11 21:06:32 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Straight-8 spotted on James Burke's "Connections" References: Message-ID: <019a01c4c864$c01b0ea0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> My thrill moment was when Jacob Bronowski 3D animated a middle-age chalice into a DNA strand on "The Accent of Man" Waaay back in 1976 or so. Adage, Imlac, or E&S? I couldn't tell you. John A. From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Nov 11 21:20:42 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Shipping a Model 33 (RO) Teletype In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20041111092615.00a2cca0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041111211427.11922940@pc> At 02:24 PM 11/11/2004, Tom Jennings wrote: >Styrofoam "peanuts" are like a cosmic conspiracy or something. Indeed! And they're not produced on-site at the shipper, right, so they must've been shipped full-size in giant hoppers? It makes so little sense. A few vendors I know are using an inflated plastic tube alternative. At least these are easily popped afterwards and become just plastic film. They do the job of filling space to keep one box from rattling around within another - which is a task peanuts do, too. Still, I wish for one of those expanded-foam packing systems. My shipping volume does not justify it, but it's such a nice way to pack anything fragile. - John From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Nov 11 22:45:58 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: Old Typesetting files Message-ID: I'm aware of someone that is looking to get some of the books they publish into a modern format. Curently the data exists in such formats as IBM Mag Cards and Scenicwriter, as well as other formats. Does anyone know of anyway of converting these two formats into something like RTF? Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Thu Nov 11 07:00:47 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:37 2005 Subject: I finally got something on topic outside Token Ring! hehe... Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041111075246.02e5b470@mail.n.ml.org> A fellow IBM'er of mine is selling me his complete IBM PS/2 system. It's MicroChannel AND has Token Ring! woohoo. It is also SCSI! I am also getting a MAU in original plastic still WITH reset tool. yippie. I can add that to the 24 port Bay Networks (now Nortel) Baystack 504 (mod) that I have. Now all I need to do is toss in a few larger SCSI drives and find someone nice enough to have a copy of the MCA configuration floppy that I will be needing. Once I know the specific unit, I will ask the list for help on that. More than likely, I know I'll get a few flames, but hey, gotta ask as it will be my main machine/server on the TR side of the network. It is currently running DOS and a semi-modified Windows 3.1 (?). I want to do something, like toss Debian on it as it has a very nice net install and works well for me so far. Any suggestions guys? -John Boffemmyer IV ---------------------------------------- Founder, Network Engineer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html ---------------------------------------- From bv at norbionics.com Thu Nov 11 07:50:01 2004 From: bv at norbionics.com (=?utf-8?Q?Bj=C3=B8rn_Vermo?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Scanning books (was: Stuff Available Ft. Wayne IN In-Reply-To: <1100168813.1566.6.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> References: <5ECE3D898910AC4497A172FAFA33D2CA0AC493@ACDFWMAIL1.acd.de.ittind.com> <9833D0FE-2CEA-11D9-8438-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <16775.46413.704460.136779@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <41924A23.5736BAAB@msm.umr.edu> <000a01c4c796$1b0ee7c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <20041110183715.T21970@shell.lmi.net> <1100168813.1566.6.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> Message-ID: On 11 Nov 2004 05:26:53 -0500, james wrote: > On Wed, 2004-11-10 at 21:57, Fred Cisin wrote: >> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, John Allain wrote: >> > I have the paper manual here somewhere. It's bound (soft) so >> > may be a pain to scan. It's about time for someone to make an >> > "open book scanner", one with a wedge of glass that you can >> > drop the book onto. I don't want this binding opened 180? flat. > > Xerox and others make photocopiers for this. The glass extends all the > way to the side of the machine and you hang the book on the side. Maybe > someone makes a scanner like this. Check with a very large library or > university library. > HP makes a see-through scanner which can be put on top of whatever you want to scan. Convenient for items which are hard to scan with normal flatbed scanners, and not too expensive. -- -bv From Watzman at neo.rr.com Thu Nov 11 11:51:45 2004 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Subject: Toshiba T4400 password In-Reply-To: <200411111801.iABI1aOT002341@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <200411111751.iABHpdwa010855@ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Yes, it's not too difficult to remove passwords from older Toshiba models. There are 2 ways, basically. One uses a dongle on the parallel port, the other uses a floppy diskette with some magic bytes in a particular place on the disk. Both the dongle and pre-made floppies are sold on E-Bay. With a bit of effort, you can track down information on how to make either yourself. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Nov 12 07:32:39 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Old Typesetting files In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041112083239.009e16e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:45 PM 11/11/04 -0800, you wrote: >I'm aware of someone that is looking to get some of the books they >publish into a modern format. Curently the data exists in such >formats as IBM Mag Cards and Scenicwriter, as well as other formats. >Does anyone know of anyway of converting these two formats into >something like RTF? If they published the books then probably the easiest way to get them into modern formats is to OCR the books. I doubt you're going to be able to find anything to read the Scenicwriter and IBM Mag cards. Joe From vaxlion at postal.lionsden.com Fri Nov 12 09:33:56 2004 From: vaxlion at postal.lionsden.com (Michael) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Hold the scanners! (was DEC Docs, Diagrams, and Diags. on Microfische) In-Reply-To: References: <4193D2B3.8080503@postal.lionsden.com> Message-ID: <4194D7E4.3070007@postal.lionsden.com> Tom Jennings wrote: > On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, Michael wrote: > > >>My recommendation is to bet on the auction if you have a desire to collect >>such material and can preserve it. Please don't bet with the only intention to >>scan these -- that's already been done! > > > ohmigod -- a person with ethics! Let's flame him, then toss > him off the list! :-) Fine! I'll just keep the files to myself! See if you get any copies of documentation! You can sit all alone in the dark with nothing to read! :-) -- Michael From vaxlion at postal.lionsden.com Fri Nov 12 09:37:07 2004 From: vaxlion at postal.lionsden.com (Michael) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Hold the scanners! (was DEC Docs, Diagrams, and Diags. on Microfische) In-Reply-To: <200411112120.QAA05985@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <4193D2B3.8080503@postal.lionsden.com> <200411112120.QAA05985@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <4194D8A3.6060109@postal.lionsden.com> der Mouse wrote: > I doubt I can do the "organize and host" bit. But-- are those scans > backed up anywhere, or is there only one copy of them? I have 4G of > space that can't easily be exported to the public, but would happily > stash a copy to guard against things like disk failure. Right now, subject to change, there are 3.5 copies - the originals on CD, two copies on RAID-5'ed filesystems and 1/2 up on bitsavers. There's was a technical difficult last night which caused the transfer to abort half-way through to bitsavers.org -- Michael From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Fri Nov 12 09:52:10 2004 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Shipping a Model 33 (RO) Teletype In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041111211427.11922940@pc> References: <3.0.6.32.20041111092615.00a2cca0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20041111211427.11922940@pc> Message-ID: <4194DC2A.6080104@sbcglobal.net> John Foust wrote: ... > > Still, I wish for one of those expanded-foam packing systems. > My shipping volume does not justify it, but it's such a nice way > to pack anything fragile. > > - John What about using that spray foam insulation stuff, "Great Stuff"? Probably not cost effective for really large items, though... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Nov 12 10:01:53 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Shipping a Model 33 (RO) Teletype In-Reply-To: <4194DC2A.6080104@sbcglobal.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20041111092615.00a2cca0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20041111211427.11922940@pc> <4194DC2A.6080104@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041112095916.10be9ff0@pc> At 09:52 AM 11/12/2004, you wrote: > What about using that spray foam insulation stuff, "Great Stuff"? Probably not cost effective for really large items, though... I'm sure better chemical mixtures are easy and probably cheap in bulk (like the commercial systems), but the formulations they sell for crack-filling aren't expansive enough or cheap enough. I seem to remember Mr. Wizard doing it and getting 10x or 100x. - John From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Nov 12 10:05:30 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Old Typesetting files In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041112083239.009e16e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041112083239.009e16e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: >At 08:45 PM 11/11/04 -0800, you wrote: >>I'm aware of someone that is looking to get some of the books they >>publish into a modern format. Curently the data exists in such >>formats as IBM Mag Cards and Scenicwriter, as well as other formats. >>Does anyone know of anyway of converting these two formats into >>something like RTF? > > If they published the books then probably the easiest way to get >them into modern formats is to OCR the books. I doubt you're going >to be able to find anything to read the Scenicwriter and IBM Mag >cards. > > Joe Actually the company that apparently made Scenicwriter still sells software that can handle the files, but I don't think it can convert them. The IBM Mag cards on the other hand... The interesting thing is they're looking for people to type the books into the computer rather than OCR them. And yes, there has already been quite a bit of discussion on if OCRing them wouldn't make more sense. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Nov 12 10:18:33 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Shipping a Model 33 (RO) Teletype References: <3.0.6.32.20041111092615.00a2cca0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20041111211427.11922940@pc> <4194DC2A.6080104@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <16788.57945.591512.677540@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "David" == David Woyciesjes writes: David> John Foust wrote: ... >> Still, I wish for one of those expanded-foam packing systems. My >> shipping volume does not justify it, but it's such a nice way to >> pack anything fragile. >> >> - John David> What about using that spray foam insulation stuff, "Great David> Stuff"? Probably not cost effective for really large items, David> though... Exactly. I did that once. A can is good for about a cubic foot, if that. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Nov 12 10:20:47 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Old Typesetting files References: <3.0.6.32.20041112083239.009e16e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <16788.58079.685591.955847@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Zane" == Zane H Healy writes: >> At 08:45 PM 11/11/04 -0800, you wrote: >>> I'm aware of someone that is looking to get some of the books >>> they publish into a modern format. Curently the data exists in >>> such formats as IBM Mag Cards and Scenicwriter, as well as other >>> formats. Does anyone know of anyway of converting these two >>> formats into something like RTF? >> If they published the books then probably the easiest way to get >> them into modern formats is to OCR the books. I doubt you're going >> to be able to find anything to read the Scenicwriter and IBM Mag >> cards. >> >> Joe Zane> Actually the company that apparently made Scenicwriter still Zane> sells software that can handle the files, but I don't think it Zane> can convert them. The IBM Mag cards on the other hand... Zane> The interesting thing is they're looking for people to type the Zane> books into the computer rather than OCR them. And yes, there Zane> has already been quite a bit of discussion on if OCRing them Zane> wouldn't make more sense. Interesting. This reminds me very strongly of "Travels in Computerland" by Ben R. Schneider. He went through this sort of struggle back around 1973, trying to figure out how to convert several thousand pages of reference book into a computer database. The eventual solution was to type it and then scan the typed pages. Nowadays the answer would be different, but it's curious that it hasn't changed as much as I would expect. paul From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Nov 12 10:23:19 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: I finally got something on topic outside Token Ring! hehe... Message-ID: <62.47d23616.2ec63d77@aol.com> It's best to know what model PS/2. If it's a 95xx, it will be much easier and even fun to set up. In a message dated 11/12/2004 8:31:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, john_boffemmyer_iv@boff-net.dhs.org writes: A fellow IBM'er of mine is selling me his complete IBM PS/2 system. It's MicroChannel AND has Token Ring! woohoo. It is also SCSI! I am also getting a MAU in original plastic still WITH reset tool. yippie. I can add that to the 24 port Bay Networks (now Nortel) Baystack 504 (mod) that I have. Now all I need to do is toss in a few larger SCSI drives and find someone nice enough to have a copy of the MCA configuration floppy that I will be needing. Once I know the specific unit, I will ask the list for help on that. More than likely, I know I'll get a few flames, but hey, gotta ask as it will be my main machine/server on the TR side of the network. It is currently running DOS and a semi-modified Windows 3.1 (?). I want to do something, like toss Debian on it as it has a very nice net install and works well for me so far. Any suggestions guys? -John Boffemmyer IV ---------------------------------------- Founder, Network Engineer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html ---------------------------------------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Nov 12 10:38:35 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Old Typesetting files In-Reply-To: <16788.58079.685591.955847@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <3.0.6.32.20041112083239.009e16e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <16788.58079.685591.955847@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: >Interesting. > >This reminds me very strongly of "Travels in Computerland" by Ben >R. Schneider. He went through this sort of struggle back around 1973, >trying to figure out how to convert several thousand pages of >reference book into a computer database. The eventual solution was to >type it and then scan the typed pages. > >Nowadays the answer would be different, but it's curious that it >hasn't changed as much as I would expect. > > paul I think part of the problem might be a bit of lack of understanding of the problem. I'm waiting for more details, but from the initial details I've gotten it sounds as if they view formats that are as little as 8 years old as being unreadable. I suspect part of the reason they don't think it can be OCR'd is due to the page layouts. Of course then there is a book that I provided the computer support for. It started on a Kaypro PC (something like an IBM AT clone), and finished on a P90 laptop. In the end a 1200dpi printer had to be purchased as the book was written in WordPerfect (mostly WordPerfect for Windows 5.2, which is the format it was finished in), and by the time it was finished no one could handle the format. The book was printed at 1200dpi and scanned, then the scans were used for the printing. The big issue was the high degree of formatting (it is almost totally in columns, and somewhere over 1200 pages), and yes, I tried to get the book shifted to a more modern program back when it could have been done. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From kenziem at sympatico.ca Fri Nov 12 10:51:29 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Old Typesetting files In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20041112083239.009e16e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <16788.58079.685591.955847@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200411121151.30965.kenziem@sympatico.ca> On Friday 12 November 2004 11:38, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >Interesting. > Of course then there is a book that I provided the computer support > for. It started on a Kaypro PC (something like an IBM AT clone), and > finished on a P90 laptop. In the end a 1200dpi printer had to be > purchased as the book was written in WordPerfect (mostly WordPerfect > for Windows 5.2, which is the format it was finished in), and by the > time it was finished no one could handle the format. The book was I just finished pulling a few books off of floppies (5.25 and 3.5) that were written in WP5.1. I sent them back tot he author as plain text. Lotus wordpro had the filters needed to load and convert the files. -- Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 Machines to trade http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/trade.html Open Source Weekend http://www.osw.ca From charlesmorris at direcway.com Fri Nov 12 11:53:02 2004 From: charlesmorris at direcway.com (charlesmorris@direcway.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Edusystem 50 on SBC6120? Message-ID: <824132824666.824666824132@direcway.com> What steps would be necessary to run Edusystem 50 on an SBC6120? (On one terminal, at least initially). From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Nov 12 12:06:13 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Straight-8 spotted on James Burke's "Connections" References: <019a01c4c864$c01b0ea0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <4194FB95.5040104@jetnet.ab.ca> John Allain wrote: > My thrill moment was when Jacob Bronowski 3D animated a > middle-age chalice into a DNA strand on "The Accent of Man" > Waaay back in 1976 or so. Adage, Imlac, or E&S? I couldn't > tell you. > Some people belive that the Accent of Man, was do to the Accent of Woman, and the the invention of a skin/leather sack to carry food and babies around back to the trees before the pre-humans became fully upright. From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Fri Nov 12 12:11:23 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Hold the scanners! (was DEC Docs, Diagrams, and Diags. on Microfische) In-Reply-To: <4194D7E4.3070007@postal.lionsden.com> Message-ID: <010601c4c8e3$061cd220$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > > > > ohmigod -- a person with ethics! Let's flame him, then toss > > him off the list! :-) > > Fine! I'll just keep the files to myself! See if you get any copies of > documentation! You can sit all alone in the dark with nothing to > read! > > :-) Surely he'll be able to read by the reflected light of the flames :-) :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Nov 12 13:07:24 2004 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: HP 1611a logic state analyzer in kansas city Message-ID: HP 1611a logic state analyzer with 1611a option Z80 found atlocal surplus spot. Mike m m c f a d d e n at c m h dot e d u From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Nov 12 13:08:58 2004 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: HP 331A DISTORTION ANALYZER Message-ID: HP 1331A DISTORTION ANALYZER found at local surplus spot. Mike m m c f a d d e n at c m h dot e d u From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Nov 12 13:11:18 2004 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: DEC R4000X-B9 in Kansas City Message-ID: DEC deskside computer system labeled R4000X-B9 found at local surplus spot. I think it may be a MIPS processor based system. Mike m m c f a d d e n at c m h dot e d u From tomj at wps.com Fri Nov 12 13:41:09 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: HP, Tek, IBM manuals on ebay In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041111211418.0097d2b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041111211418.0097d2b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > Do you want to give us a pointer to them or do we just guess which ones are your's? Just guess! :-') UNIVAC core mem http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5138796842 click "Sellers other items" of course. Well, I figured that it was rude enough to post 'items for sale' as it was, and if you look for item type X you'll find my (and others) item type X. From tomj at wps.com Fri Nov 12 13:44:14 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Old Typesetting files In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041112083239.009e16e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041112083239.009e16e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > If they published the books then probably the easiest way to get them into modern formats is to OCR the books. I doubt you're going to be able to find anything to read the Scenicwriter and IBM Mag cards. My friend David (non-lister) has a working IBM mag word processor of some sort, belts or something, I'll ask what model. The best it will do of couse is to type out the pages, there's no data abstraction available (eg. copy or transmit). From tomj at wps.com Fri Nov 12 13:52:37 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: HP, Tek, IBM manuals on ebay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Two items are umm substantially priced, my IBM 7090 reference > manuals. It's possibly, even likely, insane, but hey, it's only > bits (and cash). I re-checked the manuals, these really are for 7090, not 709x, so they're really old. LASL (Los Alamos Scientific Lab) was an 'early adopter' for everything. The 7090 is pre-STRETCH, which was built partially for LASL. From tomj at wps.com Fri Nov 12 13:54:06 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Hold the scanners! (was DEC Docs, Diagrams, and Diags. on Microfische) In-Reply-To: <4194D7E4.3070007@postal.lionsden.com> References: <4193D2B3.8080503@postal.lionsden.com> <4194D7E4.3070007@postal.lionsden.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Nov 2004, Michael wrote: > > ohmigod -- a person with ethics! Let's flame him, then toss > > him off the list! :-) > > Fine! I'll just keep the files to myself! See if you get any copies of > documentation! You can sit all alone in the dark with nothing to > read! > > :-) But but -- what about ME! Just kidding of course, thanks for handling things the way you are. From tomj at wps.com Fri Nov 12 13:56:19 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Old Typesetting files In-Reply-To: <200411121151.30965.kenziem@sympatico.ca> References: <3.0.6.32.20041112083239.009e16e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <16788.58079.685591.955847@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <200411121151.30965.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Nov 2004, Mike Kenzie wrote: > Lotus wordpro had the filters needed to load and convert the files. Which I have a legal copy of on CD... or did last time I looked. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Nov 12 13:58:20 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Old Typesetting files In-Reply-To: from "Tom Jennings" at Nov 12, 2004 11:44:14 AM Message-ID: <200411121958.iACJwKRM019649@onyx.spiritone.com> I got an email from the head guy a little bit ago, and I'm still more than a bit stunned. As the formats were determined be "Obsolete" the machines, software, AND all data files were destroyed. The books are the only form in which the material still exists! Zane From tomj at wps.com Fri Nov 12 14:18:07 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Old Typesetting files In-Reply-To: <200411121958.iACJwKRM019649@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200411121958.iACJwKRM019649@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Nov 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I got an email from the head guy a little bit ago, and I'm still more than a > bit stunned. As the formats were determined be "Obsolete" the machines, > software, AND all data files were destroyed. The books are the only form in > which the material still exists! I can't think of a better example of the stupidness of consumer capitalism. Consumption and obsolescence should be undesirable side-effects of human living, not the core reason for existence. To complete the picture, they should load the resulting debris into a low-fuel-efficiency car, spend an hour or so in traffic, on their way to dumping it all in a landfill leaking into the local water table. To save money. From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Nov 12 14:42:35 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Old Typesetting files In-Reply-To: References: <200411121958.iACJwKRM019649@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041112142740.120db208@pc> At 02:18 PM 11/12/2004, you wrote: >I can't think of a better example of the stupidness of consumer >capitalism. Consumption and obsolescence should be undesirable side-effects >of human living, not the core reason for existence. Maybe I'm too close to the issue, but I continue to grow more and more overwhelmed by the daunting task of archiving and preserving old data. Certainly any one of us has faced these sorts of issues many times in the course of our collecting and preservation. A book publisher has little financial incentive to archive electronic versions of old books. Someone else, some other business with different motives, will need to do it. A good friend of mine, a C-64 era author, wrote his C-64 books on an old Atari system. He threw out the manuscript floppies a long time ago, thinking no one would want them. Collectors have re-scanned his works, I believe. I'm a big fan of my state's "open records" laws. Yet they mandate only preserving records for seven years. The law no doubt dates from the practicalities of preserving massive amounts of paper. It hasn't been updated for electronic records, which would be far easier to preserve indefinitely. But my state's laws say that every document (paper letter, email, etc.) created by an employee, elected or appointed official is presumed to be a public record (within the limits of a handful of allowed exceptions.) Yet in reality, local government agencies can't even retrieve email stored on previous versions of Windows Exchange servers, nor can they read backups from older versions of Windows without reviving old hardware and software. In my own explorations of putting local government records on my community web site, I discovered that the County had used a 8-inch-floppy-based word processing system to type the minutes of its Board of Supervisors meetings. Once the seven years had expired, and the bound book versions of the minutes had been produced, no one saved the floppies. Dang! It would have been intensely useful to have saved these minutes. I see an ever-growing window of lost experience as electronic records are not preserved and accessible. There's not much use in cursing the short-sighted who destroy the data. If you want to save it, Someone will need to step forward to do so. You know all about "The Little Red Hen", right? Enterprise-wide Google-like technology will be present and integral in many organizations in the years to come. We'll only be able to index what we've saved and kept in online storage. To me, the upside of electronic record preservation is the other side of the Orwellian sword. Just as Orwell never imagined that people would voluntarily put view-screens in every room, did he imagine that technology could be a way to keep an eye on government? - John From aek at spies.com Fri Nov 12 15:23:47 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Edusystem 50 on SBC6120? Message-ID: <20041112212347.7B3F0453D@spies.com> > What steps would be necessary to run Edusystem 50 on an SBC6120? Simulation of an RF08 256kword swapping disc. The copies of EDU50 that survive require the use of that disc for swapping. From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Nov 12 15:53:40 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: VCF 7.0 micro wrap-up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20041112155010.022c9a50@mail.ubanproductions.com> I would like to thank Sellam for organizing this event. I had a great time as I'm sure did others. From what I've seen these things don't happen by magic, they require someone who is intensely interested in them to poke, prod, and in every way possible push them along until they occur. And that doesn't include all of the physical work required to coordinate the location, infrastructure, etc. Thanks again! --tom At 11:00 AM 11/8/2004 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >So VCF 7.0 was pretty damn awesome. Thanks to all who came, especially to >those who exhibited. > >Attendance was lower than last year, but the turnout was still really >good. I won't have an absolute number for a few more days yet. > >I'll try to get the photo gallery up a lot quicker this time. Look for >that in the next two weeks. > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From coredump at gifford.co.uk Fri Nov 12 16:20:32 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Scanning books In-Reply-To: <20041110183715.T21970@shell.lmi.net> References: <5ECE3D898910AC4497A172FAFA33D2CA0AC493@ACDFWMAIL1.acd.de.ittind.com><9833D0FE-2CEA-11D9-8438-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net><16775.46413.704460.136779@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <41924A23.5736BAAB@msm.umr.edu> <000a01c4c796$1b0ee7c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <20041110183715.T21970@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <41953730.9060006@gifford.co.uk> Fred Cisin wrote: > One company (I can't remember who) makes a book scanner that > has an option to correct for the curvature of the gutter of > a book that isn't fully flattened. HP had a research project to make a book scanner that looked like a reading lamp. You could set it up over an open book, and it would correct for the curvature of the pages and the perspective effects of the scanner's view point. I think it was done digitally. Don't know if it got any further than a research paper. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From drb at msu.edu Fri Nov 12 08:16:15 2004 From: drb at msu.edu (Dennis Boone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Nice PDP-Stuff available from Michigan State University In-Reply-To: (Your message of Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:33:11 EST.) <4193A257.1050804@internet1.net> References: <4193A257.1050804@internet1.net> <200411102342.iAANg6fO023391@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> Message-ID: <200411121416.iACEGF2r020851@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> > > You can bet I'll be on Harrison Road regularly looking for this stuff > > to appear. > > Can you explain more? Can you see MSU's Surplus area from the road? Guess that was a cheap "in" reference. MSU's salvage operation is in a building on Harrison Road, just south of Trowbridge Road, and between the two railroad lines. They're not generally given to leaving stuff outside, and you couldn't really see it from the road if they did. De From rpirving at zoominternet.net Fri Nov 12 12:58:11 2004 From: rpirving at zoominternet.net (Polli & Ron) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: pdp 11 Message-ID: <013d01c4c8e9$8e51fed0$0101a8c0@sscs> I'm looking for boards for an ancient pdp-11. The first is M8090. 2, M8030. 3, M7430. If you can point me in the right direction, I would be most appreciative. Regards, Ron From Watzman at neo.rr.com Fri Nov 12 14:38:26 2004 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Hold the scanners In-Reply-To: <200411121804.iACI3NOT011427@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <200411122038.iACKcKwa000247@ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Re: "Obviously the value would be greatly enhanced if we could knock up an index (document title or part number, where it starts, where it ends) and better yet if individual docs could be pulled out into separate pdfs." All of this is fairly easy if you have full-version Adobe Acrobat. I'm not saying it's not time consuming, but it's far less difficult than many people (who have never used full-version Acrobat, but have only used the reader) would suspect. I MIGHT do it if I get access to the files. Downloading 1,000 jpegs will probably take a lot more time than consolidating them into a PDF file, which can then be fairly indexed. From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Nov 12 16:54:01 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Hold the scanners References: <200411121804.iACI3NOT011427@huey.classiccmp.org> <200411122038.iACKcKwa000247@ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Message-ID: <16789.16137.365505.961631@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Barry" == Barry Watzman writes: Barry> Re: "Obviously the value would be greatly enhanced if we could Barry> knock up an index (document title or part number, where it Barry> starts, where it ends) and better yet if individual docs could Barry> be pulled out into separate pdfs." Barry> All of this is fairly easy if you have full-version Adobe Barry> Acrobat. I'm not saying it's not time consuming, but it's far Barry> less difficult than many people (who have never used Barry> full-version Acrobat, but have only used the reader) would Barry> suspect. Barry> I MIGHT do it if I get access to the files. Downloading 1,000 Barry> jpegs will probably take a lot more time than consolidating Barry> them into a PDF file, which can then be fairly indexed. I would hope the scans are TIFF, not JPG. JPG images are generally blurry, especially if the original had sharp black & white contrast. JPG is NOT fit for that job. paul From gordon at gjcp.net Fri Nov 12 16:55:56 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: xearth In-Reply-To: <20041018212107.GC10383@bos7.spole.gov> References: <1098017302.3170.47.camel@weka.localdomain> <41727C4B.3040007@frixxon.co.uk> <41733FA4.3030508@mdrconsult.com> <1098100009.4868.19.camel@weka.localdomain> <20041018174111.GE13257@bos7.spole.gov> <1098124337.4868.77.camel@weka.localdomain> <20041018212107.GC10383@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <41953F7C.1020009@gjcp.net> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Naturally. I'm really big on Open/Shared Source. > Small nit - Shared Source is not in any way, shape or form Open Source. It's a cute name for Microsoft releasing incomplete code under an extremely restrictive NDA. Gordon. From tomj at wps.com Fri Nov 12 16:56:45 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Old Typesetting files In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041112142740.120db208@pc> References: <200411121958.iACJwKRM019649@onyx.spiritone.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20041112142740.120db208@pc> Message-ID: I concede to most of your points. It's a big job, and the proliferation of incompatible media isn't always just consumerism, though it often is. It's certainly all a big mess. On Fri, 12 Nov 2004, John Foust wrote: > Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 14:42:35 -0600 > From: John Foust > Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Old Typesetting files > > At 02:18 PM 11/12/2004, you wrote: > >I can't think of a better example of the stupidness of consumer > >capitalism. Consumption and obsolescence should be undesirable side-effects > >of human living, not the core reason for existence. > > Maybe I'm too close to the issue, but I continue to grow more and > more overwhelmed by the daunting task of archiving and preserving > old data. Certainly any one of us has faced these sorts of issues > many times in the course of our collecting and preservation. A book > publisher has little financial incentive to archive electronic versions > of old books. Someone else, some other business with different motives, > will need to do it. > > A good friend of mine, a C-64 era author, wrote his C-64 books on an old > Atari system. He threw out the manuscript floppies a long time ago, > thinking no one would want them. Collectors have re-scanned his > works, I believe. > > I'm a big fan of my state's "open records" laws. Yet they mandate > only preserving records for seven years. The law no doubt dates from > the practicalities of preserving massive amounts of paper. It hasn't > been updated for electronic records, which would be far easier to > preserve indefinitely. But my state's laws say that every document > (paper letter, email, etc.) created by an employee, elected or > appointed official is presumed to be a public record (within > the limits of a handful of allowed exceptions.) > > Yet in reality, local government agencies can't even retrieve email > stored on previous versions of Windows Exchange servers, nor can they > read backups from older versions of Windows without reviving old > hardware and software. > > In my own explorations of putting local government records on > my community web site, I discovered that the County had used a > 8-inch-floppy-based word processing system to type the minutes > of its Board of Supervisors meetings. Once the seven years had > expired, and the bound book versions of the minutes had been > produced, no one saved the floppies. Dang! It would have been > intensely useful to have saved these minutes. I see an ever-growing > window of lost experience as electronic records are not preserved > and accessible. > > There's not much use in cursing the short-sighted who destroy > the data. If you want to save it, Someone will need to step forward > to do so. You know all about "The Little Red Hen", right? > > Enterprise-wide Google-like technology will be present and integral > in many organizations in the years to come. We'll only be able to > index what we've saved and kept in online storage. > > To me, the upside of electronic record preservation is the > other side of the Orwellian sword. Just as Orwell never imagined > that people would voluntarily put view-screens in every room, > did he imagine that technology could be a way to keep an eye > on government? > > - John > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Nov 12 17:10:43 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Hold the scanners In-Reply-To: <16789.16137.365505.961631@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <200411121804.iACI3NOT011427@huey.classiccmp.org> <200411122038.iACKcKwa000247@ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> <16789.16137.365505.961631@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <1100301043.3239.12.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 17:54 -0500, Paul Koning wrote: > I would hope the scans are TIFF, not JPG. JPG images are generally > blurry, especially if the original had sharp black & white contrast. > JPG is NOT fit for that job. Well *we* know that :-) Given that it was mentioned that they've only been scanned at 200dpi, anything's possible... From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Fri Nov 12 17:35:58 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Hold the scanners In-Reply-To: <200411122038.iACKcKwa000247@ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Message-ID: <012401c4c910$5e29e480$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > All of this is fairly easy if you have full-version Adobe > Acrobat. I'm not > saying it's not time consuming, but it's far less difficult > than many people > (who have never used full-version Acrobat, but have only used > the reader) > would suspect. Back in my previous job the scanner produced non-G4-TIFF-in PDF. For my later scans I use to use Adobe (V5??) to extract G4-TIFFs and then pull the pages back in. The two issues were: (1) you can only select so many pages to pull in in one go (maybe 50 or so) and that gets a little wearing when trying to stitch back a 400 page document. (2) sometimes it would miss out a page - so I had to eyeball everything afterwards (there was no obvious pattern to the dropped page(s)). With 4GB of data to verify, that may take some time! > I MIGHT do it if I get access to the files. Downloading > 1,000 jpegs will > probably take a lot more time than consolidating them into a > PDF file, which > can then be fairly indexed. A lot of the work can be automated. Converting the TIFFs to G4-TIFF (if needed) and then producing a PDF can all be done with ImageMagik and various other tools. But you need to know where document A begins and ends, unless you fancy going through large pdf documents, pulling out doc-A and then doc-B and then doc-C ... Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Fri Nov 12 17:38:31 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Hold the scanners In-Reply-To: <16789.16137.365505.961631@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <012501c4c910$b93f2740$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > I would hope the scans are TIFF, not JPG. JPG images are generally > blurry, especially if the original had sharp black & white contrast. > JPG is NOT fit for that job. Fully agreed. However, 200 dpi JPG is considerably better than "how can we scan fiche", which is where the rest of us seem to have been stuck for the last N years :-) Now at least we can argue about how best to index and post-process the stuff and then watch Paul try to OCR it all for Manx ... Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Nov 12 17:54:45 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Hold the scanners In-Reply-To: <012401c4c910$5e29e480$5b01a8c0@flexpc> References: <012401c4c910$5e29e480$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <1100303685.3239.21.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 23:35 +0000, Antonio Carlini wrote: > A lot of the work can be automated. Converting the TIFFs to > G4-TIFF (if needed) and then producing a PDF can all be > done with ImageMagik and various other tools. But you need > to know where document A begins and ends, unless you fancy > going through large pdf documents, pulling out doc-A and > then doc-B and then doc-C ... I've always sworn by Imagemagick for the last few years, but have recently discovered a nice gotcha in reading multi-page 1bpp TIFF images. Imagemagick doesn't efficiently handle low-bpp images - it always upgrades everything to 24bpp internally before writing out, even if the output format doesn't need it. So here I am trying to convert a 22 page TIFF image to individual images, and Imagemagick is eating up 400MB of RAM and 17GB of disk cache to do it. Ouch. Worth remembering that it's not always the most efficient thing when it comes to image handling... cheers Jules From chenmel at earthlink.net Fri Nov 12 20:33:18 2004 From: chenmel at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Shipping a Model 33 (RO) Teletype In-Reply-To: <20041110234019.37485.qmail@web81304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041110234019.37485.qmail@web81304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <06rap0dvq69l9hke8lhnd4viunahon8cu5@4ax.com> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:40:19 -0800 (PST), you wrote: >I've bought a model 33 off eBay. The seller doesn't >really know how to ship one -- he's just got it in a >box with styrofoam peanuts. I'm trying to give him >some instructions on how to do it right. I recall >that >there is a shipping screw that must be locked, but >don't remember the details. Can anyone give me some >instructions I can pass on to him? If anyone has >shipped one of these, I'd like to know what worked and >what didn't. I remember a few stories of machines >damaged in transit showing up on the list. > >Thanks, > >--Bill I will just delurk here and make the comment that I am the person shipping this teletype to him. I've taken the carriage/printing mechanism out of the case. It is amazing how loose it just sits in there, and I'm certainly glad Bill raised the issue with me before it was shipped. I have packed the carriage/printing mechanism in it's own smaller box, with rigid foam around it. This will go into a bigger box that is filled with peanuts (yes, there is a place for 'peanuts' in the shipping universe), so it's a box-inside-box arrangement, with the peanuts acting as padding. The bottom base plate of the case is cast metal, and can 'ride' in a larger shipping carton. The more fragile case top and misc loose parts (this is a printing only TTY, which simplifies the design some) can go into the box with the case bottom and lots of padding, fill, and some foam blocks to keep things separated. It's still up in the air wether the case parts and the box with the teletype mechanism in it should go together in a single big box. I am now confident that I can get the case and parts shipped without damage in a big box with proper packing, but the mechanism may go in a separate box (for the added cost of a two parcel shipment). ---------- In defense of 'peanuts' as shipping fill- I have shipped dozens of Dell Optiplexes in boxes surrounded with peanuts, using small rigid boxes around the CPU box to hold it in place, and prevent it from 'floating down to the bottom of a mass of crushed styrofoam peanuts. None of the systems have been damaged in shipping. Granted, modern 'PC' hardware is built (not as heavy, while at the same time designed 'cheap but strong') for the kind of shipping that is done everyday. Old Classic Hardware, much of which was designed to sit in Glass Rooms where mere mortals would never even have the opportunity to breathe the same air, is big, and heavy, and meant to be shipped on the skids that companies like IBM and DEC paid structural engineers to design for that purpose. The Teletype in question comes from that era. -------- Is anybody out there putting any effort into historically documenting how the old hardware was crated and shipped? I would imagine some day there will be people collecting DEC/IBM/Sperry/ControlData Skids and shipping crates (if not already) and studying what historical record is left of how it was done. From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Nov 12 20:39:18 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Shipping a Model 33 (RO) Teletype References: <20041110234019.37485.qmail@web81304.mail.yahoo.com> <06rap0dvq69l9hke8lhnd4viunahon8cu5@4ax.com> Message-ID: <002001c4c929$f942e750$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> It was written... > Is anybody out there putting any effort into historically documenting > how the old hardware was crated and shipped? I would imagine some day > there will be people collecting DEC/IBM/Sperry/ControlData Skids and > shipping crates (if not already) and studying what historical record > is left of how it was done. No, but I bet a few are thinking about it now :) Jay From chenmel at earthlink.net Fri Nov 12 20:41:42 2004 From: chenmel at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Toshiba T4400 password In-Reply-To: <008501c4c819$a31338a0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> References: <20041111005559.WRIE11272.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> <008501c4c819$a31338a0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:09:48 -0000, you wrote: >> If you have a parallel port, you should be able to do it. I >> have never done >> this myself, however it is reported by many to work on >> Toshiba laptops: > >[snip methods] > >I got my 300MHz Tecra for nothing because it had a password. > >I can attest that the parallel port method works for >that model at least! > >Antonio I got a SparcStation 10 at an IUPUI auction with a full, new install of Solaris on it, and no root password. Thanks, Indiana University! I suspect it was a spare that just never got 'deployed' after a clean install. There's a trick for defeating the NVRAM password on Sparc hardware of that vintage that consists of partially booting up the machine, pulling the NVRAM out, getting past the password section, then plugging it back in hot. (I have had to verify that said method works on a few occasions) Stripping out hardware passwords is a tricky business sometimes. My HP Omnibook 300 had a password on it that I forgot at one point, and I had to not just call HP Tech support, but prove to them that it was mine by faxing a bunch of 'proof of ownership' stuff, to get them to help me unlock it. That kind of thing makes me shiver/tremble, because it means there's stuff out there that over time will definitely become landfill material and/or physical-display-only collectable, when the vendor goes out of business and/or refuses to cooperate. From aek at spies.com Fri Nov 12 20:46:37 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Hold the scanners Message-ID: <20041113024637.65C534542@spies.com> pdfs of the fiche scans are trickling onto www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/fiche/200dpi I'm doing the diagnostic listings first, then any other documents that are readable and don't already appear from paper scans. I'll have a list of the full contents later tonight on bitsavers. From millenniumfalcon at cableone.net Fri Nov 12 21:49:50 2004 From: millenniumfalcon at cableone.net (millenniumfalcon@cableone.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: changing email address Message-ID: <240560-220041161334950113@M2W059.mail2web.com> How do I change the email address I receive this list on??? -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Fri Nov 12 23:21:42 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration effort on the way! Message-ID: <1100323302.24579.72.camel@fortran> Allright, so I'm going to the movie theatres to watch Fahrenheit 9/11 (this was probably about two months ago). The movie theatre I pick also happens to have a conference centre at the lower floors. I'm bored, the movie doesn't start for 40 minutes, so I go down and behold the exhibit I hadn't looked at since sixth grade or something. The conference center, as the exhibit, is owned by Storebrand, a major insurance company here in Norway. (Storebrand literally means "Big fire", hee hee) And the exhibit is full of cool old office hardware (old IBM dictaphones, mechanical cardpunches/sorters, etc). And amongst one of the cards, I see a COBOL card - PICTURE XX99. Ah ha! The smell of opportunity! And old punch card paper! (*sniff* Ahhh...) I call around, and finally end up talking to a man named Dag Wold, who is the archivist and historian at Storebrand, and he explained that he was a retired insurance worker that kept tabs on the archive's inventory. So, finally, I get to come over and look. And what a sight! Apart from a metric buttload of cool old mechanical stuff and dictaphones and stuff, a cool IBM 3270 terminal (I think I'm gonna start a thread on that too :), a VT102 (what was the 2 for, again?), and a nice TI mini I tried but failed to boot (The floppy I tried probably wasn't the boot floppy), and some other cool stuff I really should take pictures of, the crown jewel of the collection was definately (IMO :) a NORD-10/S minicomputer with a 9-track Pertec rebrand tape drive. /S means "With various enhancements, like cache" in Norwegian. Terse language, you see. :P It's in excellent cosmetic condition. I powered it up, and everything seemed to be working, but seeing how I don't know the first thing about pretty much anything from Norsk Data, "working" means "didn't burst into flames" :) Enter Johnny Oddene, the webmaster of sintran.com, ex-Norsk Data-employee, hobbyist, and owner of what was left of ND after they went bankrupt in 1993. (Pretty much just a warezhouse and a trademark) I mailed him, told him a bit about the project, and asked him if there was any documentation or anything availible. He wanted to see the thing, and we decide to meet up at the Storebrand warehouse. He powered it up and started toggling and talking with me about the architecture. And what an architecture!! The most interesting feature is the concept of levels, which was new to me. The CPU had 16 levels, 0-15. A 'level' was pretty much a sort of what IBM would call PSW and Intel called ..was it TSS? Anyway, it describes a running task with all its registers. The interesting thing, is that the registers that you'd normally get from RAM with a Load PSW isntruction or an are actually registers inside the CPU! You just do a level switch, one instruction, and it switches levels and immediately continues the other level! Of course, with what ISTR being 6 GPRs and some things like PC and stuff, this would end up with a lot of registers. But boy, was it fast! In fact, some customers buying the ND-100, the sequel to the Nord-10, noticed a significant decrease in performance due to this. It also would BOOT OVER NETWORKS! IN 1972! In what was called OPCOM (IIRC), which was a small bootloader in PROM, you could boot from various devices. It used to have a disk, but now it doesn't :\ I am impressed at how much he remembered about the machine. Reading his homepage, I find that this was the first computer he used (And the first is always special... I envy him starting on such an ingenious arch instead of a sodding 286 like me) He didn't, however, remember any instructions, so no toggling yet. You could also tell the thing to boot from floppy using a terminal over current loop. However, being the owner of the friggin' company, he of course has a complete set of docs! And a terminal! Yay! He's promised to call me when he's heading up to his warehouse so I get a peek, too. I will of course take pictures if I can get to borrow my (What do you call people living in the room next to you at an orphanage? Neighbour?)'s CyberShot. I will of course start a webpage on this. For people wondering, the PDP-7 is still where it's always been, and waiting for a wire-wrapper. Thanks in advance for all the help you all probably will give me during this project ;) With excited rgds, -- Tore S Bekkedal From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri Nov 12 23:54:24 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:38 2005 Subject: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration effort on the way! In-Reply-To: <1100323302.24579.72.camel@fortran> References: <1100323302.24579.72.camel@fortran> Message-ID: <200411130557.AAA07050@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > [...Norsk Data NORD-10/S...] Oh man, det er kjempe, KJEMPEkult! Now I _really_ need to find a way to move back to Norway! You wouldn't happen to know of a job in the area looking for a mouse? :-) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Nov 13 00:45:28 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration effort on the way! In-Reply-To: <1100323302.24579.72.camel@fortran> References: <1100323302.24579.72.camel@fortran> Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Nov 2004, Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > a metric buttload Tore, that'll be one new keyboard for a Dell Latitude, and a thorough cleaning of the LCD, plus the books on my desk and the wall behind them. I thought it would be safe to have a bit of sandwich and a Pepsi whilst reading Classiccomp, but... NOOOOOO!! 'Metric Buttload'!!! God, I'm STILL laughing. Okay, I'll clean up the Mess myself, but I'm stealing your phrase and using it. So there. Cheers John PS: Good score!! From aek at spies.com Sat Nov 13 01:36:38 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: "metric buttload" Message-ID: <20041113073638.233A143B6@spies.com> I think Eric Smith was using this phrase even earlier http://www.google.com/groups?selm=1991Aug10.162415.19314%40wpi.WPI.EDU&output=gplain Aug '91 I know that's where I picked it up from. From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Sat Nov 13 02:01:54 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration effort on the way! Message-ID: <1100332914.24579.77.camel@fortran> > [...Norsk Data NORD-10/S...] > Oh man, det er kjempe, KJEMPEkult! Hehe. visst faen :) >Now I _really_ need to find a way to move back to Norway! You wouldn't >happen to know of a job in the area looking for a mouse? :-) Bring a PDP-11 and I'll stash you in the basement ;) -- Tore S Bekkedal From quapla at xs4all.nl Sat Nov 13 03:08:16 2004 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (quapla@xs4all.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration effort on the way! In-Reply-To: References: <1100323302.24579.72.camel@fortran> Message-ID: <17371.62.177.191.201.1100336896.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> picture!! picture!!! picture!!! :) > On Sat, 13 Nov 2004, Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > >> a metric buttload > > > Tore, that'll be one new keyboard for a Dell Latitude, and a thorough > cleaning of the LCD, plus the books on my desk and the wall behind them. > > I thought it would be safe to have a bit of sandwich and a Pepsi whilst > reading Classiccomp, but... NOOOOOO!! > > > 'Metric Buttload'!!! > > > God, I'm STILL laughing. > > Okay, I'll clean up the Mess myself, but I'm stealing your phrase and > using it. > > So there. > > > Cheers > > John > > PS: Good score!! > From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Sat Nov 13 04:13:53 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: IBM 3270 interfacing? Message-ID: <1100340833.24579.89.camel@fortran> Does anyone know anything about the protocol that the IBM 3270 terminals uses on the BNC ports labelled I/O? Is there any possibility of hooking this up to anything modern? -- Tore S Bekkedal From james at jdfogg.com Sat Nov 13 04:59:06 2004 From: james at jdfogg.com (james) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: IBM 3270 interfacing? In-Reply-To: <1100340833.24579.89.camel@fortran> References: <1100340833.24579.89.camel@fortran> Message-ID: <1100343546.1439.1.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 05:13, Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > Does anyone know anything about the protocol that the IBM 3270 terminals > uses on the BNC ports labelled I/O? Is there any possibility of hooking > this up to anything modern? You mean SNA/SDLC isn't modern? It's at least still very popular. Lots of it in use. I don't remember what the BNC's are for though, but if it's not SNA then it might be some kind of video. From GOOI at oce.nl Sat Nov 13 08:59:04 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: one more question about pdp8/e console switches behaviour Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A011133B7@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Thanks all for the explanation. I have put some new pictures on my website (www.pdp-11.nl) Goto [Homebrew 'PDP-11'] -> [spin off]. To get the LED's on the photo the colors of the artwork are not correct; the smal picture above it is more like it. The latest source code is available in the ZIP file (and with and without RealConsole in the two S19 record files). The S19 without RealConsole will run stand-alone on the Core Board (no I/O Board needed) if the 32k RAM chip is installed. I will certainly check out David's PDP-8 online. Cool! greetz, - Henk, PA8PDP. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Sent: 11-11-2004 18:32 Subject: Re: one more question about pdp8/e console switches behaviour I think people have answered your questions but if not my online PDP-8 interface should work like the real front panel. It is a real 8/E but the web interface is a custom board I made. I copied the front panel logic so it should act the same and it seemed to in my testing. http://www.pdp8.net/run.shtml David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. Have any PDP-8 stuff you're willing to part with? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Nov 13 09:35:17 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Shipping a Model 33 (RO) Teletype In-Reply-To: <4194DC2A.6080104@sbcglobal.net> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20041111211427.11922940@pc> <3.0.6.32.20041111092615.00a2cca0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20041111211427.11922940@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041113103517.00968e80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:52 AM 11/12/04 -0500, you wrote: >John Foust wrote: >... > >> >> Still, I wish for one of those expanded-foam packing systems. >> My shipping volume does not justify it, but it's such a nice way >> to pack anything fragile. >> >> - John > > What about using that spray foam insulation stuff, "Great Stuff"? >Probably not cost effective for really large items, though... It's not even cost effective for SMALL items! The amount of foam that in one of those cans is pathetic! I tried to use that when I first shipped stuff that I'd sold on Ebay and a full can won't fill even the left over space in a a 6" ^3 box. The other problem with that stuff is that it keeps expanding for hours (at least!). I packed one box full of small items (sealed in plastic) then filled the box with foam (no, not the liquid). The buyer told me later that the foam didn't get into anything but that it had kept expanding till it got into evgr{ crcck and crgvkcg and that hg had to chip thg stwff ouv of"of it :-) He did sakd"that evgr{thing"was absolwtgl{ intact"thowgh sincg it was one big monolkthic block! Joe From Pres at macro-inc.com Sat Nov 13 11:09:43 2004 From: Pres at macro-inc.com (Ed Kelleher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Shipping a Model 33 (RO) Teletype In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041113103517.00968e80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <4194DC2A.6080104@sbcglobal.net> <6.1.2.0.2.20041111211427.11922940@pc> <3.0.6.32.20041111092615.00a2cca0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20041111211427.11922940@pc> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041113120855.0273aa30@192.168.0.1> At 10:35 AM 11/13/2004, you wrote: > > What about using that spray foam insulation stuff, "Great Stuff"? > >Probably not cost effective for really large items, though... > > > It's not even cost effective for SMALL items! The amount of foam that > in one of those cans is pathetic! I tried to use that when I first > shipped stuff that I'd sold on Ebay and a full can won't fill even the > left over space in a a 6" ^3 box. The other problem with that stuff is > that it keeps expanding for hours (at least!). I packed one box full of > small items (sealed in plastic) then filled the box with foam (no, not > the liquid). The buyer told me later that the foam didn't get into > anything but that it had kept expanding till it got into evgr{ crcck and > crgvkcg and that hg had to chip thg stwff ouv of"of it :-) He did > sakd"that evgr{thing"was absolwtgl{ intact"thowgh sincg it was one big > monolkthic block! Plus when you use that stuff the fumes can make your typing go to hell, right Joe ... Joe? Just pickin :-) Ed K. From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Nov 13 12:58:42 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: PING Fred vanKempen Message-ID: Yo Freddie - call me on my landline of cell if your mailserver is still stuffed up.... obClassiccmp: Found a few nice VaxStationen at Wierd Stuff last time I was there... an M3100/74 and accompanying Storage Expansion Box with all the cables intact, including the RGB/kybd/mouse cable. Ain't had time to power it up yet, but it's on The Canonical List of Things to Eventually Do. Cheers John From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Nov 13 13:34:37 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration effort on the way! In-Reply-To: <1100323302.24579.72.camel@fortran> References: <1100323302.24579.72.camel@fortran> Message-ID: <1100374477.4913.7.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 06:21 +0100, Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > the crown > jewel of the collection was definately (IMO :) a NORD-10/S minicomputer > with a 9-track Pertec rebrand tape drive. /S means "With various > enhancements, like cache" in Norwegian. Terse language, you see. :P Nice going :-) That reminds me, a little update. I'm making progress on getting hold of the ND100 machine. There's a little pressure on getting the docs soon as they're in someone's way, but the machine itself is safe and sound where it is at present. Actually, it's on a tiny island in the middle of a river... getting it off the island is going to be interesting. I've not done a water rescue before :-) > Enter Johnny Oddene, the webmaster of sintran.com, ex-Norsk > Data-employee, hobbyist, and owner of what was left of ND after they > went bankrupt in 1993. (Pretty much just a warezhouse and a trademark) Hmm, sounds like I should remember that! :) > In fact, some customers buying the ND-100, the sequel to the Nord-10, > noticed a significant decrease in performance due to this. Grr ;) > I will of course start a webpage on this. Well I can throw you some ND100 images to go with that if you want when we get the machine onto slightly more solid ground! cheers Jules From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Nov 13 13:52:38 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration effort on the way! References: <1100323302.24579.72.camel@fortran> <1100374477.4913.7.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <41966606.6050607@jetnet.ab.ca> Jules Richardson wrote: > That reminds me, a little update. I'm making progress on getting hold of > the ND100 machine. There's a little pressure on getting the docs soon as > they're in someone's way, but the machine itself is safe and sound where > it is at present. Actually, it's on a tiny island in the middle of a > river... getting it off the island is going to be interesting. I've not > done a water rescue before :-) How about getting some fake Palm and Coconut trees and moving to your NEW ISLAND home. :) I don't know how far north you are, but could you wait until the river freezes and move it over the ice? From acme at gbronline.com Sat Nov 13 16:50:53 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Enigma kits in USA References: <3.0.6.32.20041110135942.008f4b80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <00af01c4c9d3$3ba3f5e0$3b4f0945@acme> ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe R. > >http://www.xat.nl/enigma-e/ > > That's DAMMED cool! Somebody needs to start selling these in the US! > > Joe Okay, you got my attention. I import stuff from all over the world, so why not Gt. Britain? Bletchley Park sells them for GBP119.99 (US$222.49), and the Museum Jan Corver in The Netherlands charges EUR130 (US$168.72), freight not included. If ten people on this list raise their hands and say "I want one" at *roughly* US$200 plus UPS shipping from Florida, I'll get in touch with the Enigma-kit folks and see what we can work out. By bringing in a number of them we'll save on the freight and possibly get a volume discount, too. Disclaimer: I'm not in this to make a buck from the listmembers. I may order a couple of extra ones and sell them on my company Web site *at a higher price.* Any takers? Glen 0/0 From tosteve at yahoo.com Sat Nov 13 18:51:32 2004 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Are you in Orange County, California? Message-ID: <20041114005132.67909.qmail@web40907.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, Any collectors in or near OC, CA? I occassionally have things to get rid of, but nothing particularily valuable. Examples: Commodore stuff (VIC,C64). Portables (Compaq, Osborne). Books (Apple, Amiga). and other similar stuff. Watch for me on the Fox TV show "The O.C."! Just kidding, it's lame. Steve. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Nov 13 19:00:18 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Shipping a Model 33 (RO) Teletype In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041113103517.00968e80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20041111211427.11922940@pc> <3.0.6.32.20041111092615.00a2cca0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20041111211427.11922940@pc> <3.0.6.32.20041113103517.00968e80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041113184820.052ab240@pc> At 09:35 AM 11/13/2004, Joe R. wrote: >It's not even cost effective for SMALL items! The amount of foam that in one of those cans is pathetic! I tried to use that when I first shipped stuff that I'd sold on Ebay and a full can won't fill even the left over space in a a 6" ^3 box. The other problem with that stuff is that it keeps expanding for hours (at least!). If you look closely on the cans at your average home repair store, they'll often have a selection of varying expansion rates. If you're filling the gaps on the side of a window frame when you're building a house, for example, you don't want it to keep expanding for hours. You want something that'll expand quickly, not too much, then stop. Otherwise it will expand with such pressure as to prevent the window from opening, believe it or not. Other cans advertise that they'll fill large gaps, meaning the foam expands more, longer. There are some foams that are latex-based as opposed to the aldehyde (?) form. One of my clients is a pottery. They have a big foaming machine, I think it's connected to one or two large vats perhaps a cubic 5x5x5 ft. They lay down a thin plastic sheet, foam into the bottom of the box, lay down another sheet, drop in the pot with a covering sheet, then foam again with another sheet on top so it doesn't stick to the box. You can see how you'd want it to expand quickly, to a certain volume, then not expand any more. (Us rural geeks must often have a wide range of talents, from construction to woodworking to tractor driving to sheep wrangling, etc. For computer consulting, I've been paid in pork, fish, vegetables, poultry, baked goods, etc.) - John From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Nov 13 20:49:06 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Shipping a Model 33 (RO) Teletype In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20041113120855.0273aa30@192.168.0.1> References: <3.0.6.32.20041113103517.00968e80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <4194DC2A.6080104@sbcglobal.net> <6.1.2.0.2.20041111211427.11922940@pc> <3.0.6.32.20041111092615.00a2cca0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20041111211427.11922940@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041113214906.007937c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:09 PM 11/13/04 -0500, you wrote: >At 10:35 AM 11/13/2004, you wrote: >> > What about using that spray foam insulation stuff, "Great Stuff"? >> >Probably not cost effective for really large items, though... >> >> >> It's not even cost effective for SMALL items! The amount of foam that >> in one of those cans is pathetic! I tried to use that when I first >> shipped stuff that I'd sold on Ebay and a full can won't fill even the >> left over space in a a 6" ^3 box. The other problem with that stuff is >> that it keeps expanding for hours (at least!). I packed one box full of >> small items (sealed in plastic) then filled the box with foam (no, not >> the liquid). The buyer told me later that the foam didn't get into >> anything but that it had kept expanding till it got into evgr{ crcck and >> crgvkcg and that hg had to chip thg stwff ouv of"of it :-) He did >> sakd"that evgr{thing"was absolwtgl{ intact"thowgh sincg it was one big >> monolkthic block! > >Plus when you use that stuff the fumes can make your typing go to hell, >right Joe ... Joe? > >Just pickin :-) > >Ed K. I saw that too AFTER I sent the message something is realy going beserk with my computer. Eudora lost ALL of it's settings last week but I checked the INI file and everything was still there! I started to manually reenter the settings but after entering the first two it picked ALL of them up again. Then this message got thoroughly scrambled earlier today. It's the only one that got scrambled). This just now all the addresses in the Eudora Address book disappeared EXCEPT Rich Beaudry's and the B was gone out of it!!!! I haven't had any trouble with anything else except Eudora. All the spy-ware and virus checkers come up clean. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Nov 13 20:43:12 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: HP 1000 opcodes? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041113214312.00988920@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Anybody know where I can find a list of the opcodes for the HP 1000s (21MX series)? They're not on Al's site. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Nov 13 20:51:13 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration effort on the way! In-Reply-To: <1100374477.4913.7.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1100323302.24579.72.camel@fortran> <1100323302.24579.72.camel@fortran> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041113215113.00985da0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:34 PM 11/13/04 +0000, you wrote: >On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 06:21 +0100, Tore S Bekkedal wrote: >> the crown >> jewel of the collection was definately (IMO :) a NORD-10/S minicomputer >> with a 9-track Pertec rebrand tape drive. /S means "With various >> enhancements, like cache" in Norwegian. Terse language, you see. :P > >Nice going :-) > >That reminds me, a little update. I'm making progress on getting hold of >the ND100 machine. There's a little pressure on getting the docs soon as >they're in someone's way, but the machine itself is safe and sound where >it is at present. Actually, it's on a tiny island in the middle of a >river... getting it off the island is going to be interesting. I've not >done a water rescue before :-) I once rescued a Corvair out of the middle of a river (No island!) It was -- interesting! Joe From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat Nov 13 21:13:03 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: HP 1000 opcodes? References: <3.0.6.32.20041113214312.00988920@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001e01c4c9f7$dadf0310$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> It's up there in several places... not the least of which is: http://www.classiccmp.org/bitsavers/pdf/hp/21xx/rteIII/92060-90005_rteAssemb_Apr79.pdf Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 8:43 PM Subject: HP 1000 opcodes? > Anybody know where I can find a list of the opcodes for the HP 1000s > (21MX series)? They're not on Al's site. > > Joe > > From ohh at drizzle.com Sat Nov 13 21:41:18 2004 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration effort on the way! In-Reply-To: <1100323302.24579.72.camel@fortran> Message-ID: Tore S Bekkedal wrote of finding: > [...] some other cool stuff I really should take pictures of, the crown > jewel of the collection was definately (IMO :) a NORD-10/S minicomputer > with a 9-track Pertec rebrand tape drive. /S means "With various > enhancements, like cache" in Norwegian. Terse language, you see. :P Woooooo! This sounds like a seriously fun machine. :) > The CPU had 16 levels, 0-15. A 'level' was pretty much a sort of what > IBM would call PSW and Intel called ..was it TSS? Anyway, it describes a > running task with all its registers. The interesting thing, is that the > registers that you'd normally get from RAM with a Load PSW isntruction > or an are actually registers inside the CPU! > You just do a level switch, one instruction, and it switches levels and > immediately continues the other level! [...] Is there any documentation about the architecture online (apart from your post)? It'd be interesting to see what other surprises it has. O'course, nearly every current page Google finds for it is in Norwegian, so maybe the documentation _is_ there and I just can't _read_ it... :) -O.- From ohh at drizzle.com Sat Nov 13 21:54:48 2004 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Q.: Resonant Transformers Message-ID: Okay, I admit it: There are many, many things I don't know. :) And one of those things came up in a conversation today, and sheer curiosity leads me to ask: What, exactly, is a resonant transformer? The subject came up here about a month or so back - I think it was in reference to a DEC PDP-8/E power supply, but that could be a mistake - and a look through Google seemed to only bring me sites about Tesla coils, which was interesting but didn't really shed light on the subject. So I'm still curious. :) What does a resonant transformer do that a conventional one does not? Does it have usefulness outside of Tesla coils? What would it be doing in an 8/E (or whatever machine it was that was being discussed at the time)? Any enlightenment appreciated. :) -O.- From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Nov 13 22:11:47 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: HP 1000 opcodes? In-Reply-To: <001e01c4c9f7$dadf0310$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <3.0.6.32.20041113214312.00988920@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041113231147.00a40dc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Bob, Jay told me where to find the 21MX opcodes. They're in the RTE Assembler manual in the RTE section of Al's site. Joe Thanks Jay. I knew I'd seen one somewhere but I couldn't find it. However I didn't check in the RTE section. Joe At 09:13 PM 11/13/04 -0600, you wrote: >It's up there in several places... not the least of which is: > >http://www.classiccmp.org/bitsavers/pdf/hp/21xx/rteIII/92060-90005_rteAssemb_Apr79.pdf > >Jay West >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe R." >To: >Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 8:43 PM >Subject: HP 1000 opcodes? > > >> Anybody know where I can find a list of the opcodes for the HP 1000s >> (21MX series)? They're not on Al's site. >> >> Joe >> >> > > > From richard.beaudry at gmail.com Sat Nov 13 22:23:35 2004 From: richard.beaudry at gmail.com (Richard Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: DEC Stuff available in MA ... Part #1 Message-ID: Hello all, My company recently decommissioned a small DEC system. They were going to scrap it out, but the person who became the "owner" of the system was loathe to do that, as it was a working system. I spotted the pile of stuff, and asked about its status. Long story short, I am now the owner of the system. However, I know *ZERO* about DEC stuff, so I thought I would make it available to the list. I don't know if the pile represented a single system, or half a system, or what, but it is better than dumpstering it, right? :-) This is only part of the list -- the "small stuff" if you will. The "big stuff" is still waiting for me to go and get it. Once I get it and look it over, I will list it here as well (as a teaser, think B400X, R400X, TS05, RAID array, and MicroVAX). First, the brief rules: - Everything is free if you come get it (Westminster MA, USA, ZIP code 01473). If I ship it, I ask shipping +20% (for my time). "Shipping" includes postage and packaging materials. I buy all of my boxes, etc., at Staples... Please don't ask me to go 50 miles out of my way to get a cheaper box :-) - Please email me *off-list* to indicate yout interest. I will take emails up until Monday 11/15 at midnight, to give weekenders and international folks time to see this. I will decide who gets what in the event of multiple interested parties. I will email the lucky ones sometime on Tuesday. - I will try to answer all questions to the best of my abilities, but remember, my knowledge of DEC systems is less than zero.... OK, on to the stuff: - Terminal, VT-420 C2, manufactured 7-Aug-1990. Amber screen, passes diagnostics on power-up. Screen is kind of dim, and also "wavy" (letters move back and forth at high frequency). Also will need a good cleaning. Has a keyboard attached, LK-401-AA, rev. A02. Keyboard is also quite dirty, but appears to be functional (F3 brings up config. menu, and I could navigate w/ keyboard) - Terminal, VT-320 C2, manufactured 31-Aug-1990. Amber screen, bright stable picture, some burn-in, but not too bad. Startup diagnostics pass. Will need a good cleaning. Has attached keyboard, LK-401-EA, rev A04. Keyboard dirty, but functional. Has a WordPerfect template stuck on above the top row of keys. Again, F3 brought me to config, and I could navigate w/ keyboard. - Terminal, VT-520 C4, manufactured 1994. Amber screen, clean, but definite screen burn. Status line is badly burned in, and screen shows signs of other burn-in. Startup diagnostics pass. Has attached keyboard, LK-411-AA Rev B01, dirty but functional. I was able to bring up config and navigate w/ keyboard. - Terminal, VT-520 C4, manufactured 1994. Untested, because it is still in its original box. The box is opened, but the styrofoam packing is there, and the terminal appears still sealed inside the blue plastic bag it was shipped in. Base is also included, but NO manuals or keyboard. - DECServer 200/MC. Has a 15-pin Ethernet connector and 8 DB-25 male connectors. Also says Model: DSRVB-A. Untested, but working when pulled. - ThinWire Ethernet Singloport Repeater-150. DESPR-EE, rev C02. Looks cleam, missing rubber feet. Untested, but another working pull. - M9404-PA card. Full-height card. Half is just a plastic spacer, the other half says "Q22 Cable Connector". Untested. - M9047 Grant Continuity Card - Manual: "B400X Expander Installation Guide" - Manual: EK-BA44A-IN, "Entry Systems, BA400-Series Enclosures, Storage Devices Installation Procedures" (TWO copies) - Manual: EK-BA44A-IN-003, "Entry Systems, BA400-Series Enclosures, Storage Devices Installation Procedures" - Manual: EK-RF72D-UG, "RF Series Integrated Storage Element User's Guide" - Manual: EK-RF72D-IM, "RF Series Integrated Storage Element Installation Manual for BA200-Series Enclosures" - Plugs, possibly for setting Drive IDs, or Bus IDs? Part Number: 12-28766-19 REV A01. Three plugs with no ID, the rest numbered 0-7. One full set, one with blanks and 0,6,7 only. - Plugs, possibly for setting Drive IDs, or Bus IDs? Part Number: 12-28766-28 REV B01. Three plugs with no ID, the rest numbered 0-7. One full set, one with blanks and 0,5,6,7 only. - FIVE covers, look like they cover hard drives. 7027049-02, Rev. A01 Thanks! Rich B. From aek at spies.com Sat Nov 13 23:36:35 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Q.: Resonant Transformers Message-ID: <20041114053635.C671E42F7@spies.com> what you want to google for is "ferroresonant power supplies" http://www.mcitransformer.com/i_notes.html for example A ferroresonant power supply is very similar to an unregulated power supply except for the characteristics of the ferroresonant transformer. The ferroresonant transformer will supply a constant output voltage over a wide variation of the transformer input voltage. The problems with using a ferroresonant power supply include that it is very sensitive to slight changes in line frequency and would not be switchable from 50 Hz to 60 Hz, and that the transformers dissipate more heat than conventional transformers. These power supplies are heavier and will have more audible noise from the transformer resonance than regulated linear power supplies. From aek at spies.com Sat Nov 13 23:43:32 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration effort on the way! Message-ID: <20041114054332.994A043FE@spies.com> > It's in excellent cosmetic condition. I powered it up You really should learn the basics about applying power to electronic gear that has been off for some unknown period of time. It is an INCREDIBLY BAD idea to just go into a room full of old computers and just randomly start applying power to equipment in unknown condition. At an absolute minimum, you should check the condition of the power supplies. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Nov 14 00:36:02 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Nice bit of test gear history... Message-ID: <200411132236020493.009E9D87@192.168.42.129> My inner voice kept urging me to stop by the local used-computer place today despite my currently low cash level. Now I know why. Besides the SCSI connection adapter I needed, I also picked up a neat piece of computing test equipment history. It's a V-ATE POST and diagnostic test card, made by Vista Microsystems and vintage about 1991. I remember seeing these things (and lusting after them, but I couldn't afford $2,300+ at the time) in the Specialized Products catalog of the time, right alongside the Lynx floppy-disk tester/exercisers, RS232 breakout boxes, and other such goodies. I never in my wildest dreams thought I'd ever own one. This particular board will work in any AT-type system with an ISA slot. Besides doing the usual POST code readout and diagnostic functions, it will also function as an AT-bus specific logic analyzer. God only knows what I'm going to use it for right now, but I just couldn't leave it there to be picked up by some brainless boob who has no idea of the history of the thing, much less how to use it! And I thought I was done collecting computer hardware some years ago. At least I'm not bringing home VAXstations now... ;-) Keep the peace(es). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Nov 14 08:50:30 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Sanyo Items Offered Message-ID: <001901c4ca59$68613e40$21406b43@66067007> Does anyone in or near Colorado want the following items Sanyo MBC550 and a Sanyo monitor ? Email me and I will put you in contact with the person that has them. From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Nov 14 11:21:50 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: back from the dead (mail server) Message-ID: Hi, As yall have noticed, my (pdp11.nl) mail server died on me while I was away. Apparently, one of the RZ26L drives in Unibus died. While testing some of those drives, several others died, so I did replace all of them with new(er) RZ28's which have proben to be rock solid. Dunno how much mail was eventually bounced back, I believe the problems started wednesday night, soo... Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Sun Nov 14 12:29:35 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration effort on the way! In-Reply-To: <20041114054332.994A043FE@spies.com> References: <20041114054332.994A043FE@spies.com> Message-ID: <1100456975.3918.5.camel@fortran> On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 21:43 -0800, Al Kossow wrote: > > It's in excellent cosmetic condition. I powered it up > > You really should learn the basics about applying power to > electronic gear that has been off for some unknown period > of time. I know that. Remember, I checked the PDP-7's power supplies THOROUGHLY. I checked capacitors on all the large supplies. > > It is an INCREDIBLY BAD idea to just go into a room full of > old computers and just randomly start applying power to equipment > in unknown condition. At an absolute minimum, you should check > the condition of the power supplies. The Nord-10 had at least been powered up in 1993 (I found a system disk backup with that date), and most likely later. The backup battery that lets the CPU keep the contents of the memory and registers for a short while actually contained a charge. I flipped that switch without worrying the least bit. Relax, I've got it all under contrJ;klj8977^%*&^ NO CARRIER -- Tore S Bekkedal From cmcnabb at gmail.com Sun Nov 14 12:30:30 2004 From: cmcnabb at gmail.com (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: "metric buttload" In-Reply-To: <20041113073638.233A143B6@spies.com> References: <20041113073638.233A143B6@spies.com> Message-ID: <145cecdd04111410302d52a31d@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 23:36:38 -0800 (PST), Al Kossow wrote: > > I think Eric Smith was using this phrase even earlier > http://www.google.com/groups?selm=1991Aug10.162415.19314%40wpi.WPI.EDU&output=gplain > > Aug '91 > > I know that's where I picked it up from. > I first heard this phrase while attending the US Navy's Nuclear Propulsion School in the summer of '81. I think the usage I heard was something like "The fission produces 2.73 neutrons on average, and a metric buttload of energy" From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Sun Nov 14 12:38:22 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: "metric buttload" In-Reply-To: <145cecdd04111410302d52a31d@mail.gmail.com> References: <20041113073638.233A143B6@spies.com> <145cecdd04111410302d52a31d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1100457502.3918.9.camel@fortran> On Sun, 2004-11-14 at 13:30 -0500, Christopher McNabb wrote: > On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 23:36:38 -0800 (PST), Al Kossow wrote: > > > > I think Eric Smith was using this phrase even earlier > > http://www.google.com/groups?selm=1991Aug10.162415.19314%40wpi.WPI.EDU&output=gplain > > > > Aug '91 > > > > I know that's where I picked it up from. > > > > I first heard this phrase while attending the US Navy's Nuclear > Propulsion School in the summer of '81. > > I think the usage I heard was something like "The fission produces > 2.73 neutrons on average, and a metric buttload of energy" > That's impressive, I thought I just made that up in a fit of humour. But it probably just came from somewhere deep inside my subconsiousness, about right next to my knowledge of Visual Basic. -- Tore S Bekkedal From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Sun Nov 14 12:54:32 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration effort on the way! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1100458472.3918.21.camel@fortran> On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 19:41 -0800, O. Sharp wrote: > Tore S Bekkedal wrote of finding: > > > [...] some other cool stuff I really should take pictures of, the crown > > jewel of the collection was definately (IMO :) a NORD-10/S minicomputer > > with a 9-track Pertec rebrand tape drive. /S means "With various > > enhancements, like cache" in Norwegian. Terse language, you see. :P > > Woooooo! This sounds like a seriously fun machine. :) Oh yes, indeed. And after this one, which seems like a "quick job", I may get the opportunity to go after an ND-5/0/00/000. The ND-10 is to the ND-5/50/500/5000 as the PDP-11 is to the PDP-10! Better get the -10 done with, then! :) > > > The CPU had 16 levels, 0-15. A 'level' was pretty much a sort of what > > IBM would call PSW and Intel called ..was it TSS? Anyway, it describes a > > running task with all its registers. The interesting thing, is that the > > registers that you'd normally get from RAM with a Load PSW isntruction > > or an are actually registers inside the CPU! > > You just do a level switch, one instruction, and it switches levels and > > immediately continues the other level! [...] > > Is there any documentation about the architecture online (apart from your > post)? It'd be interesting to see what other surprises it has. O'course, > nearly every current page Google finds for it is in Norwegian, so maybe > the documentation _is_ there and I just can't _read_ it... :) It is my goal that it will be, but I can't promise you anything yet. There is no documentation for the machine, but I was very fortunate to get in touch with Johnny Oddene. > > -O.- > > -- Tore S Bekkedal From vcf at siconic.com Sun Nov 14 12:59:21 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Brits so Wacky Message-ID: This is much fun. It's a contest on some UK channel for people to come up with concepts for the most crap 1980s games. This is not picking crap 1980s games mind you, but coming up with parodies of games in the 1980s that were such crap they were memorable. http://www.b3ta.com/features/crapcomputergames/ Some highlights: Invaders from Space http://www.mrandmrswheatley.co.uk/invaders.html Father Jack Nun Attack http://www.distaste.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Father%20Jack.php Paintmash Dungeon 2 http://www.mrandmrswheatley.co.uk/princess1.html Spazz Attack http://www.mrandmrswheatley.co.uk/spazzman.html Super Bog Run http://www.lskerton.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/bogrun.html There are also what I'm sure are UK-centric jokes that are above my head but that will make the blokes howl. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From james at jdfogg.com Sun Nov 14 13:21:26 2004 From: james at jdfogg.com (james) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Q.: Resonant Transformers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1100460086.7228.6.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> > What, exactly, is a resonant transformer? Would you mean a ferroresonant transformer? Ferros are a unique design that will regulate voltage output regardless (within reason) of input voltage. They are available as stand-alone devices and as part of high-end UPS's. They really do work very well, but are hot, inefficient and smell (I suspect the smell is hot windings). They are also somewhat noisy (hums). I could waste bandwidth explaining their design, but these guys do it better. http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_9/6.html From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Nov 14 13:31:46 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Brits so Wacky In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >There are also what I'm sure are UK-centric jokes that are above my head >but that will make the blokes howl. Well, the "Father Jack: Nun Attack" is pretty funny :^) But it helps if you've watched "Father Ted". Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 14 13:45:58 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration effort on the way! In-Reply-To: <1100456975.3918.5.camel@fortran> from "Tore S Bekkedal" at Nov 14, 4 07:29:35 pm Message-ID: > > It is an INCREDIBLY BAD idea to just go into a room full of > > old computers and just randomly start applying power to equipment > > in unknown condition. At an absolute minimum, you should check > > the condition of the power supplies. > The Nord-10 had at least been powered up in 1993 (I found a system disk > backup with that date), and most likely later. The backup battery that Which is 11 years ago.... > lets the CPU keep the contents of the memory and registers for a short > while actually contained a charge. I flipped that switch without > worrying the least bit. I would not be so reckless!. It only takes one failure in the PSU regulator to take out most, if not all, of the chips in the machine (I don't want to trust that crowbar protection will work!). I, alas, have had it happen once, fortunately I could get all the chips and had adump of the EPROM, but it was not a cheap experience. Running the PSUs on dummy load and making sure the output voltages are correct is something that I always do now. -tony From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Sun Nov 14 14:00:48 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration effort on the way! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1100462448.3918.36.camel@fortran> On Sun, 2004-11-14 at 19:45 +0000, Tony Duell wrote: > > > It is an INCREDIBLY BAD idea to just go into a room full of > > > old computers and just randomly start applying power to equipment > > > in unknown condition. At an absolute minimum, you should check > > > the condition of the power supplies. > > The Nord-10 had at least been powered up in 1993 (I found a system disk > > backup with that date), and most likely later. The backup battery that > > Which is 11 years ago.... At the very most 11 years ago, which still isn't bad. > > lets the CPU keep the contents of the memory and registers for a short > > while actually contained a charge. I flipped that switch without > > worrying the least bit. > > I would not be so reckless!. It only takes one failure in the PSU > regulator to take out most, if not all, of the chips in the machine (I > don't want to trust that crowbar protection will work!). I, alas, have > had it happen once, fortunately I could get all the chips and had adump > of the EPROM, but it was not a cheap experience. Running the PSUs on > dummy load and making sure the output voltages are correct is something > that I always do now. > > -tony > I think it suffices to say that the guy who cut his teeth on the machine and has supported them since 1986, and *owned the company since 1992* didn't have any problems with it... He said that the PSUs were sturdy and had *plenty* of protection. They were used extensively in the military and several railway backup systems, those things were ruggedized to hell and back. I may have been mistaken, but at the time, as presently, I didn't see the need to delve deeper into the PSU. -- Tore S Bekkedal From jplist at kiwigeek.com Sun Nov 14 16:27:50 2004 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Looking for RT-11 for SMS1000 Message-ID: I have a friend who's needing a copy of RT-11 for an SMS1000, any help in finding a copy would be appreciated. This chap works at a fische and printshop and the 11/34 they used for talking to their lasers kicked it, so they're going to replace it with an SMS1000 they have on hand. The guy says that the stock PDP11/34 RT-11 image won't run on the SMS1000, so he's assuming a more specialised version is required. Thanks all; JP From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Nov 14 16:42:05 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Brits so Wacky In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1100472125.5953.60.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-11-14 at 10:59 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > This is much fun. It's a contest on some UK channel for people to come up > with concepts for the most crap 1980s games Ohhhh... thanks for posting that. I caught the first series of Look Around You and it's one of the funniest shows I've ever seen on TV. Glad there's another run coming up! :) cheers Jules From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Nov 14 16:53:19 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Looking for RT-11 for SMS1000 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I have a friend who's needing a copy of RT-11 for an SMS1000, any help in >finding a copy would be appreciated. > >This chap works at a fische and printshop and the 11/34 they used for >talking to their lasers kicked it, so they're going to replace it with an >SMS1000 they have on hand. >The guy says that the stock PDP11/34 RT-11 image won't run on the SMS1000, >so he's assuming a more specialised version is required. What version are they running? I've run standard RT-11 on a SMS-1000. Either that or the version they currently have simply needs setup for the SMS-1000. Keep in mind that the /34 is Unibus, and the SMS-1000 is Q-Bus. They probably need to talk to Mentec (http://www.mentec-inc.com/) about getting a newer version than they're currently running from the sounds of things. Since this is definitely for commercial use, you can't simply find a copy somewhere. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 14 17:13:49 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration effort on the way! In-Reply-To: <1100462448.3918.36.camel@fortran> from "Tore S Bekkedal" at Nov 14, 4 09:00:48 pm Message-ID: > > Which is 11 years ago.... > At the very most 11 years ago, which still isn't bad. I check the PSUs of machines that I own and have run before if I've not powered them up for, say, a year oe more.... It doesn't take long to do (especially not if you're familiar with the machine and/or have schematics), putting right the damage can take a lot of time and money. Most of the time you'll have no problems, sure. Most of the time when I get a machine on the bench (wheter a 'new toy' or something from my existing collection), the PSUs behave perfectly on dummy load. But if something does got wrong, you really don't want to kill all the chips.... There is anotehr issue, actually. PSU problems -- marginally low votlages, ripple, and so on, can cause all sorts of odd behaviour that will take hours to find if you don't initially suspect the PSU (like the time my PDP11/45 would run for 1botu an hour and a half before falling over in all sorts of odd ways -- I traced that to a '+5V' supply to the memory that was actually about +4.6V). Checking out the PSUs can eliminate such problems. > I think it suffices to say that the guy who cut his teeth on the machine > and has supported them since 1986, and *owned the company since 1992* > didn't have any problems with it... He said that the PSUs were sturdy That would not be enough for me. Heck, the assurance of the designer wouldn't be enough for me (and nor, for that matter, would anybody else's assurance). The risk is just too great. Sure the PSU will have built-in protection -- all decent machines do (although HP omitted it from their desktop calculators for some unknown reason -- the HP9815, 9825, 9832, etc desparately need a crowbar!).But I'd rather not rely on it. Better to be safe than sorry. > I may have been mistaken, but at the time, as presently, I didn't see > the need to delve deeper into the PSU. All you need to do is disconnect the PSU from the machine, connect it to dummy loads (car bulbs are what I noramlly use -- 6V ones on the +5V line, for example) and check the output voltages. You don't need to investigate the internals of the PSU unless there's something wrong. -tony From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Nov 14 17:26:09 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Brits so Wacky In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200411142343.iAENhZOP030021@huey.classiccmp.org> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage > Computer Festival > Sent: 14 November 2004 18:59 > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > Subject: Brits so Wacky > > > This is much fun. It's a contest on some UK channel for > people to come up with concepts for the most crap 1980s > games. This is not picking crap 1980s games mind you, but > coming up with parodies of games in the 1980s that were such > crap they were memorable. > > http://www.b3ta.com/features/crapcomputergames/ as advertised on my index page since the owner of b3ta told me about it a few weeks ago :) I happen to go drinking with some of that lot from time to time, I've been part of the b3ta community for a couple of years now. They do weekly 'competitions' that primarily concentrate on manipulated images, jokes, parodies etc.....some gifted people on there. Some of 'em collect old machines too, some of you might remember this tune that b3ta head honcho Rob put together a few months ago: http://www2.b3ta.com/heyhey16k/ cheers w From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Sun Nov 14 17:26:39 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: Looking for RT-11 for SMS1000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <010e01c4caa1$65c59710$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > >This chap works at a fische and printshop and the 11/34 they used for > >talking to their lasers kicked it, so they're going to > replace it with an > >SMS1000 they have on hand. > They probably need to talk to Mentec (http://www.mentec-inc.com/) > about getting a newer version than they're currently running from the > sounds of things. Since this is definitely for commercial use, you > can't simply find a copy somewhere. True. However, if the "fiche and printshop" replace the broken 11/34 bits with working 11/34 bits, they'd be fine, right? All they need to do is find a bunch of people looking to for a cheap fiche-to-good-quality-pdf scanning service and they'd be sorted... Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From mross666 at hotmail.com Sun Nov 14 18:31:46 2004 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: DEC colours Message-ID: Does anyone have codes - Pantone numbers, or something like that - or commercial paint names, for the following shades of DEC paint: pdp-15 'powder blue' pdp-10 dark blue pdp-12 green The light, very slightly creamy, grey paint used for front panel frames, RA8x disk drives, etc. Have some restoration to do! Thanks - please CC any replies to my email, list digest distribution seems slow of late! Mike http://www.corestore.org From allain at panix.com Sun Nov 14 20:10:53 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: DEC colours References: Message-ID: <000601c4cab8$564b86c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Get someone to tour one of the museums (RCS/RI?) with a digital camera and a test patch. Initially the test patch could be just a piece of white paper, but it should be opaque. Put the patch on the subject, photograph, and later read off the RGB's, (re)white balancing if necessary. Multiple participants with multiple machines machines would be useful to compensate for the Sun-fade history of the paints. > pdp-15, pdp-10, pdp-12... I have none of these or I would help. John A. From uban at ubanproductions.com Sun Nov 14 22:07:57 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: HP 4951B Protocol Analyzer manual? Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20041114220632.063ece80@mail.ubanproductions.com> At the recent Ft. Wayne hamfest, I picked up an HP 4951B Protocol analyzer, but it didn't have a manual with it. Does anyone have one that I can get either a scan or copy of? --tnx --tom From brain at jbrain.com Sun Nov 14 22:36:43 2004 From: brain at jbrain.com (Jim Brain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: HP 1650B manuals? Message-ID: <4198325B.4090803@jbrain.com> Picked up a nice 1650B logic analyzer, but no manuals. Before I debate about spending $100.00 for a set of manuals, I thought I'd see if someone has a 1650A/B manual around, or has copies. Jim -- Jim Brain, Brain Innovations brain@jbrain.com http://www.jbrain.com Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, Old CBM computers, and Good Times! From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Nov 14 22:46:30 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:39 2005 Subject: HP 1650B manuals? References: <4198325B.4090803@jbrain.com> Message-ID: <000601c4cace$13991610$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > Picked up a nice 1650B logic analyzer, but no manuals. Before I debate > about spending $100.00 for a set of manuals, I thought I'd see if > someone has a 1650A/B manual around, or has copies. I'm not sure of the difference in models, but I have 1631D manuals. I'm still on the prowl for a service manual for the Facit N4000 :\ Jay West From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Nov 15 01:02:12 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Looking for RT-11 for SMS1000 In-Reply-To: <010e01c4caa1$65c59710$5b01a8c0@flexpc> References: <010e01c4caa1$65c59710$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: > > >This chap works at a fische and printshop and the 11/34 they used for >> >talking to their lasers kicked it, so they're going to >> replace it with an >> >SMS1000 they have on hand. > >> They probably need to talk to Mentec (http://www.mentec-inc.com/) >> about getting a newer version than they're currently running from the >> sounds of things. Since this is definitely for commercial use, you >> can't simply find a copy somewhere. > >True. However, if the "fiche and printshop" replace >the broken 11/34 bits with working 11/34 bits, they'd >be fine, right? > >All they need to do is find a bunch of people looking >to for a cheap fiche-to-good-quality-pdf scanning >service and they'd be sorted... Excellent point! Geez, what was I thinking! The parts to get the /34 up and running are going to be *far* cheaper than the cost of upgrading the software. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Mon Nov 15 01:07:29 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Looking for RT-11 for SMS1000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <013801c4cae1$c67e6100$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > Excellent point! Geez, what was I thinking! The parts to get the > /34 up and running are going to be *far* cheaper than the cost of > upgrading the software. You should have been thinking either: a. He's left off a smiley again or b. At least he didn't make some feeble joke about a "fish and chip shop" (See what you've made me do now? .. :-)) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 15 01:13:08 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Sanyo Items Offered In-Reply-To: <001901c4ca59$68613e40$21406b43@66067007> Message-ID: On Sun, 14 Nov 2004, Keys wrote: > Does anyone in or near Colorado want the following items Sanyo MBC550 and a > Sanyo monitor ? Email me and I will put you in contact with the person that > has them. Joe Rigdon LOVES those Sany MBC550 computers! Send it to him...I'll be he'll be glad to pay for shipping, maybe even throw in a few bucks on top. :)~ -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 15 01:18:14 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Brits so Wacky In-Reply-To: <1100472125.5953.60.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sun, 14 Nov 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Sun, 2004-11-14 at 10:59 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > This is much fun. It's a contest on some UK channel for people to come up > > with concepts for the most crap 1980s games > > Ohhhh... thanks for posting that. I caught the first series of Look > Around You and it's one of the funniest shows I've ever seen on TV. Glad > there's another run coming up! :) I've heard a couple comments to this effect so far. What, basically, is the show about? Any chance to get a taping? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 15 01:22:10 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: DEC colours In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, Mike Ross wrote: > Does anyone have codes - Pantone numbers, or something like that - or > commercial paint names, for the following shades of DEC paint: > > pdp-15 'powder blue' > pdp-10 dark blue > pdp-12 green > The light, very slightly creamy, grey paint used for front panel frames, > RA8x disk drives, etc. > > Have some restoration to do! Any local paint store or paint department in the local hardware store should be able to do a computerized paint match if you bring in a sample. I used Behr color swatches from the Home Depot to match the colors for the PDP-1 replica I did and they came out *very* close. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Nov 15 01:31:27 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: DEC colours In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Nov 14, 2004 11:22:10 PM Message-ID: <200411150731.iAF7VRR3008397@onyx.spiritone.com> > Any local paint store or paint department in the local hardware store > should be able to do a computerized paint match if you bring in a sample. > I used Behr color swatches from the Home Depot to match the colors for the > PDP-1 replica I did and they came out *very* close. Actually Mike isn't the only one that would be interested in knowing the Pantone colours for DEC HW. Though I'd also like to know the correct colour for "China Red" as used in later model PDP-10's. Zane From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Mon Nov 15 01:37:54 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: DEC colours In-Reply-To: <200411150731.iAF7VRR3008397@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200411150731.iAF7VRR3008397@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <1100504274.3918.39.camel@fortran> On Sun, 2004-11-14 at 23:31 -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Actually Mike isn't the only one that would be interested in knowing the > Pantone colours for DEC HW. Though I'd also like to know the correct colour > for "China Red" as used in later model PDP-10's. > > Zane > Hell, I'd love some info on the 18-bit blue that PDP-7 used. Wasn't it the same as the PDP-1? -- Tore S Bekkedal From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Mon Nov 15 02:00:43 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Norsk Data history site translated! Message-ID: <1100505643.3918.45.camel@fortran> Allright, I got around to translating a part of the Norwegian ND history site. It's now up under http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~toresbe/nd/stuff/history Read and rejoice :) -- Tore S Bekkedal From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Nov 15 02:33:45 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Brits so Wacky In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200411150851.iAF8pWOP032543@huey.classiccmp.org> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage > Computer Festival > Sent: 15 November 2004 07:18 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Brits so Wacky > > On Sun, 14 Nov 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > On Sun, 2004-11-14 at 10:59 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > This is much fun. It's a contest on some UK channel for > people to > > > come up with concepts for the most crap 1980s games > > > > Ohhhh... thanks for posting that. I caught the first series of Look > > Around You and it's one of the funniest shows I've ever seen on TV. > > Glad there's another run coming up! :) > > I've heard a couple comments to this effect so far. What, > basically, is the show about? Any chance to get a taping? Back in the early 70s we had a series of educational programmes 'for schools and colleges' that featured typical boffins of the day wearing massive collars, horrible shirts, beards and lab coats doing experiments that us kids had to watch and write down the results. Look Around You was a perfect pastiche of those programmes that basically took the piss from start to finish. Each show was 10 minutes long with loads of background jokes and visuals and daft experiments, with plenty of opportunities to 'write that down' for later. At several points me and the missus were in tears :o)) Best thing to do is for me to get the DVD from home and try and compress some snippets into interweb-friendly format.....I can tape some of it but you'd need a video that can play PAL-I broadcasts. cheers w From quapla at xs4all.nl Mon Nov 15 02:53:42 2004 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (quapla@xs4all.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Norsk Data history site translated! In-Reply-To: <1100505643.3918.45.camel@fortran> References: <1100505643.3918.45.camel@fortran> Message-ID: <19159.192.18.240.11.1100508822.squirrel@192.18.240.11> > Allright, I got around to translating a part of the Norwegian ND history > site. It's now up under > > http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~toresbe/nd/stuff/history > > Read and rejoice :) > -- > Tore S Bekkedal > > Tore, I get a 404 error. Mange tak, Ed From pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org Mon Nov 15 02:51:21 2004 From: pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Brits so Wacky References: <200411150851.iAF8pWOP032543@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <002801c4caf0$48e75b20$4601a8c0@retrobbs.org> Heh. I've seen that (my neighbour bought it and brought it round) and it was hysterical. It isn't exactly like the American version, but they did show movies very much like it when I was in school in Tempe Arizona. The American ones were more like the one in the Simpsons... Troy: Nothing beats a stroll in cattle country. Hi, I'm Troy McClure. You may remember me from such educational films as "Two Minus Three Equals Negative Fun" and "Firecrackers: The Silent Killer". Jimmy: Mr. McClure? Troy: Oh! Hello Bobby. Jimmy: Jimmy. I'm curious as to how meat gets from the ranch to my stomach. Troy: Whoa, whoa, whoa! Slow down Jimmy. You just asked a mouthful. It all starts here, in the high density feed lot. Then, when the cattle are just right [swipes his finger along the top of a cow and licks it] Yum...it's time for them to graduate from Bovine University. A klaxon blares out a siren and the cattle begin moving up a conveyor belt into the meat packing plant. Troy: Come on Jimmy, let's take a peek at the killing floor. Jimmy: Ohhh! Troy: Don't let the name throw you Jimmy. It's not really a floor, it's more of a steel grating that allows material to sluice through so it can be collected and exported. They walk throught the door of the plant accompanied by the sounds of moo-ing and startled cows. Electricity noise sparks in the background as the camera pans down the length of the factory to a truck marked "Meat For You" being loaded with raw chunks of meat. Troy and Jimmy emerge, with Jimmy visibly pale and queasy. Troy: Gettin hungry Jimmy? Jimmy: Uhh, Mr. McClure? I have a crazy friend who says its wrong to eat meat. Is he crazy? Troy: Nooo, just ignorant. You see your crazy friend never heard of "The Food Chain". [Flash to a picture of "Food Chain", with all animals and arrows pointing to a silhouette of a human.] Just ask this scientician. Scientician: [Looking up from a microscope.] Uhhh... Troy: He'll tell you that, in nature, one creature invariably eats another creature to survive. [Images of various wild carnivores attacking and eating others appear.] Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd eat you and everyone you care about! [Image of a cow quietly chewing cud.] Jimmy: Wow, Mr. McClure. I was a grade A moron to ever question eating meat. Troy: [Laughs.] Yes you were Jimmy, yes you were. [Briskly rubs his hand on Jimmy's head.] Jimmy: [Timid] Uhh...you're hurting me. -- Troy McClure, the silent hurter, "Lisa the Vegetarian" Film's over. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Graham" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 8:33 AM Subject: RE: Brits so Wacky > > Look Around You was a perfect pastiche of those programmes that basically > took the piss from start to finish. Each show was 10 minutes long with loads > of background jokes and visuals and daft experiments, with plenty of > opportunities to 'write that down' for later. At several points me and the > missus were in tears :o)) > > Best thing to do is for me to get the DVD from home and try and compress > some snippets into interweb-friendly format.....I can tape some of it but > you'd need a video that can play PAL-I broadcasts. > > cheers > > w > > "But Schindler is bueno! Senior Burns is El Diablo!" -------------------------------------------------------------- Website - http://www.retrobbs.org Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org BBS - http://bbs.retrobbs.org:8000 IRC - irc.retrobbs.org #main WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Mon Nov 15 03:10:59 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Norsk Data history site translated! In-Reply-To: <19159.192.18.240.11.1100508822.squirrel@192.18.240.11> References: <1100505643.3918.45.camel@fortran> <19159.192.18.240.11.1100508822.squirrel@192.18.240.11> Message-ID: <1100509859.3918.57.camel@fortran> On Mon, 2004-11-15 at 09:53 +0100, quapla@xs4all.nl wrote: > > Allright, I got around to translating a part of the Norwegian ND history > > site. It's now up under > > > > http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~toresbe/nd/stuff/history > > > > Read and rejoice :) > > -- > > Tore S Bekkedal > > > > > > Tore, > > I get a 404 error. > > Mange tak, > > Ed > Apologees, it's working now. > > -- Tore S Bekkedal From wmaddox at pacbell.net Mon Nov 15 05:24:06 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Sperry anyone? Message-ID: <419891D6.4030909@pacbell.net> The 5000/50 is apparently a 68020-based Unix box, formerly the NCR Tower series. There doesn't seem to be much interest -- looks like they'll go cheap. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5136977541&rd=1 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5136979040&rd=1 From williams.dan at gmail.com Mon Nov 15 06:46:36 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: DEC R4000X-B9 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26c11a64041115044658f3c51e@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:11:18 -0600, McFadden, Mike wrote: > DEC deskside computer system labeled R4000X-B9 found at local surplus > spot. > > I think it may be a MIPS processor based system. > > Mike > m m c f a d d e n at c m h dot e d u > > I think it's a dssi disk expansion box. There's one in London as well if anyone wants one. Dan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 15 06:53:44 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Sanyo Items Offered In-Reply-To: <001901c4ca59$68613e40$21406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041115075344.009118d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> BARF! I owned one when they were new. You couldn't pay me to take one now! Joe At 08:50 AM 11/14/04 -0600, you wrote: >Does anyone in or near Colorado want the following items Sanyo MBC550 and a >Sanyo monitor ? Email me and I will put you in contact with the person that >has them. > > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Nov 15 07:28:09 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: DEC colours In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1100525289.7173.53.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-11-14 at 23:22 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Any local paint store or paint department in the local hardware store > should be able to do a computerized paint match if you bring in a sample. > I used Behr color swatches from the Home Depot to match the colors for the > PDP-1 replica I did and they came out *very* close. Agreed. The matches tend not to be perfect, even without taking sun fade into account. For a computer where it'll be indoors anyway they're probably acceptable though! cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Nov 15 07:56:42 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Sperry anyone? In-Reply-To: <419891D6.4030909@pacbell.net> References: <419891D6.4030909@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <1100527002.7156.77.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-11-15 at 03:24 -0800, William Maddox wrote: > The 5000/50 is apparently a 68020-based Unix box, formerly the NCR Tower > series. Actually I believe the Sperry ones are Unisys; Unisys made them under licence from NCR though (I don't think they changed any of the hardware, just the model numbers) I've got a NCR Tower 700/32 - it was a pretty nice machine. It's been dead in my garage for a few years now with a PSU fault though. The 700's got a 68030 CPU for memory, 39MB ECC memory, and an absolutely monster system board (about 1m x 0.5m). Mine's got the DHPSIO dual serial board giving 16 terminal lines, dual channel SCSI board, and Ethernet. For the age it positively flew - the thing absolutely bristles with auxiliary processors and cache memory. It just took about a week to start up and run all the diags :-) (I remember it had more cache memory on the disk controller than I had main memory in my PC at the time...) The local console's via a 15 pin connector; if anyone buys these EBay ones then shout and I'll dig the pinouts out. They also support a remote console via a modem on a seperate port. I *think* I've still got an ST506 mass storage controller and 8-channel serial board that'd probably work with these EBay ones if needed. The Ethernet boards for them are like gold dust btw - not many systems shipped with them. What I don't have for mine is docs or install media, just a few photocopied pages of dip switch settings (I was lucky enough to borrow the doc set from someone years ago). So someone please save these machines if they come with docs or media :) cheers, Jules From gstreet at indy.net Mon Nov 15 08:24:51 2004 From: gstreet at indy.net (Robert Greenstreet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Enigma kits in USA (Robert Greenstreet) In-Reply-To: <200411141801.iAEI04OS028353@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041115092451.00a13750@pop.onemain.com> Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 17:50:53 -0500 From: "Glen Goodwin" Subject: Enigma kits in USA To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > http://www.xat.nl/enigma-e/ > > That's DAMMED cool! Somebody needs to start selling these in the US! > > Joe --------------------------------------------------------------- >>Okay, you got my attention. I import stuff from all over the >>world, so why not Gt. Britain? >> >>Bletchley Park sells them for GBP119.99 (US$222.49), >>and the Museum Jan Corver in The Netherlands charges >>EUR130 (US$168.72), freight not included. >> >>If ten people on this list raise their hands and say "I want one" >>at *roughly* US$200 plus UPS shipping from Florida, I'll >>get in touch with the Enigma-kit folks and see what we can work out. >>By bringing in a number of them we'll save on the freight and possibly >>get a volume discount, too. >>[clipped] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Glen, I'm interested! Thanks, Robert Greenstreet (gstreet@indy.net) From allain at panix.com Mon Nov 15 08:37:50 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: DEC colours References: <1100525289.7173.53.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <002701c4cb20$afa2f1a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > The matches tend not to be perfect, even without taking sun fade > into account. For a computer where it'll be indoors anyway they're The idea with sun fade is that the color was permanantly changed... different people who have machines at different locations probably have had their machine colors change based on history in the sun, and if you want that "Factory fresh" color, it would be a process of finding who has basically the most saturated paint job. Then again we aint the Smithsonian here. John A. From Hans.Franke at siemens.com Mon Nov 15 09:16:50 2004 From: Hans.Franke at siemens.com (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: No more bids from the EU In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041103195033.00797450@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <145cecdd04110314326663231b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4198D672.26982.445C29A0@localhost> Am 3 Nov 2004 19:50 meinte Joe R.: > At 05:32 PM 11/3/04 -0500, you wrote: > >Well, it looks like I won't be able to accept bids from the EU anymore: > >http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/03/ebay_catalogue/ > Interesting. Looks like I will have to stop selling to Germany at least. > Too bad I've sold a lot of stuff to the Germans and I've never had a > problem (except LONG delays in customs). This was a German court ruling. > Does it apply to the other EU countries? Well, first of all, it wasn't exactly the ruling of the 'a German civil court' as the Register states, but rather the Bundesgerichtshof, which happens to be the highest civil and criminal court, so it's binding for all German courts. The Law cited itself is barely more than the incooperation of an EU law into German books. Furthermore it concerns only remote B2C transactions (mail order). And gives the customer a right to cancel any remote sales contract within a given time without further reasoning (aka if you're an eskimo and some telemarketer talked you into a new fridge, you may cancel it as soon as your mind is back to normal ... but then again, with all the global warming going on, it might be wise to look ahead) Last but not least, the ruling was less about this law, but rather if eBay is to be seen an auction (and therefore it would be extempted from the this law), or just as some kind of market place where buyers and sellers come together and do business on their own. The court did go for later argument, since a) eBay is not involved in the transaction itself and b) that the 'Acception of Tender' is not done by a licenced auctioneer. Now, the ruling has of course no effect on all private eBaying, nor does it imply anything for Sellers outside the EU. In fact the court did only maintain a position it already showed in several other cases about online auctions. For example there where at least two decisions that defined online autions as a way of legal contract findeing and more important as legal binding. So if some jerks push up the price of a ZX81 to 5 Grand, and don't want to pay, the seller could sue the highest bidder. Of course it works also the other way arround - if you get a Twiggy Lisa 1 for EUR 1, the seller has to deliver :) Another important ruling was that eBay (and similar services) are not responsible for copyright or trademark infrogment by their customers (unless they get informed). This put's online auctions at about the same legal level as for example the classifed sections of a newspaper. Anyway, to my opinion it's another good ruling to keep eBay clean. And yes, it may have implication for other EU countries, and the EU court might overrule it, but I doubt that. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 6.0 am 30.April und 01.Mai 2005 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 15 09:59:32 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Brits so Wacky In-Reply-To: <200411150851.iAF8pWOP032543@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, Adrian Graham wrote: > Best thing to do is for me to get the DVD from home and try and compress > some snippets into interweb-friendly format.....I can tape some of it but Please! Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jim.isbell at gmail.com Mon Nov 15 11:35:19 2004 From: jim.isbell at gmail.com (Jim Isbell, W5JAI) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Wives and computers Message-ID: I think I creatated a Frankinstein Monster!! For 40 years my wife has not been interested in computers. 5 years ago I finially got her introduced to computers. She surfs the internet lika pro, installs her own software etc. BUT...now she expects to have the system updated every two weeks. She used to be satisfied with my cast offs but now she wants the latest!! This came to light most recently when I installed a Lansing sub woofer speaker system. Its not the latest technology and I even got it off E Bay for only $2.25 but it is the best I have ever heard. Now she wants one!!! -- Jim Isbell W5JAI UV #257 CAL 27 #221 From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Mon Nov 15 12:02:57 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Wives and computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1100541777.3918.80.camel@fortran> On Mon, 2004-11-15 at 11:35 -0600, Jim Isbell, W5JAI wrote: > I think I creatated a Frankinstein Monster!! > > For 40 years my wife has not been interested in computers. 5 years > ago I finially got her introduced to computers. She surfs the > internet lika pro, installs her own software etc. > > BUT...now she expects to have the system updated every two weeks. She > used to be satisfied with my cast offs but now she wants the latest!! > > This came to light most recently when I installed a Lansing sub woofer > speaker system. Its not the latest technology and I even got it off E > Bay for only $2.25 but it is the best I have ever heard. Now she > wants one!!! Quick, feed the monster a PDP-11! :) -- Tore S Bekkedal From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 15 10:27:55 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration effort on the way! In-Reply-To: References: <1100462448.3918.36.camel@fortran> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041115112755.00969ad0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Testing power supplies before powering up a system is just plain paranoid! (And I'm trying to be polite here!) There are a thousand parts in modern computers that can cause just as much damage!!!!!!!! Just last week I THOROUGHLY tested a HP 1000 including running test on ALL of the firmware ROMs (About three dozen of them!) plus CPU tests, memory tests, PSU test etc etc etc. I'd had the machine running for several days testing it. THEN I connected the Floating Point Unit (this was a F series HP 1000). As soon I turned it on the internal memory tests started but it acted goofy. After removing the FPU and further testing I found that the FPU had toasted the CPU card :-( It has one bit in the Microcode section that's stuck high. I'm guessing it's a bus transciever or something similar since the stuck bit appears in every memory location and every register. (Anybody have schematics for the HP F-series CPU?) Further example: YESTERDAY I was testing a "new" HP 1000 (an E-series this time). A quick check of the PSU outputs showed it to be normal and we powered up the computer, cleaned and reseated some cards, reconfigured some cards, installed other cards, etc etc and powered it up and down numerous times over the course of several hours. THEN it happened! The PSU started making a loud sizzling sound and poured out copious smoke! All that testing and prior running gave no hint of the impending failure! What's more, this is the SECOND time that I've had a HP 1000 PSU fail after running for over an hour. FWIW I pulled the PSU out of another untested machine, put it in this one (without testing it!) and everythings working again. IF I had an absolutely unrepairable, irreplacceable computer and IF I had all the PSU specs and pinouts it MIGHT justify the trouble of testing a PSU before using it to power up a computer but otherwise forget it! Joe At 11:13 PM 11/14/04 +0000, you wrote: >> > Which is 11 years ago.... >> At the very most 11 years ago, which still isn't bad. > >I check the PSUs of machines that I own and have run before if I've not >powered them up for, say, a year oe more.... It doesn't take long to do >(especially not if you're familiar with the machine and/or have >schematics), putting right the damage can take a lot of time and money. > >Most of the time you'll have no problems, sure. Most of the time when I >get a machine on the bench (wheter a 'new toy' or something from my >existing collection), the PSUs behave perfectly on dummy load. But if >something does got wrong, you really don't want to kill all the chips.... > >There is anotehr issue, actually. PSU problems -- marginally low >votlages, ripple, and so on, can cause all sorts of odd behaviour that >will take hours to find if you don't initially suspect the PSU (like the >time my PDP11/45 would run for 1botu an hour and a half before falling >over in all sorts of odd ways -- I traced that to a '+5V' supply to the >memory that was actually about +4.6V). Checking out the PSUs can >eliminate such problems. > >> I think it suffices to say that the guy who cut his teeth on the machine >> and has supported them since 1986, and *owned the company since 1992* >> didn't have any problems with it... He said that the PSUs were sturdy > >That would not be enough for me. Heck, the assurance of the designer >wouldn't be enough for me (and nor, for that matter, would anybody else's >assurance). The risk is just too great. > >Sure the PSU will have built-in protection -- all decent machines do >(although HP omitted it from their desktop calculators for some unknown >reason -- the HP9815, 9825, 9832, etc desparately need a crowbar!).But >I'd rather not rely on it. Better to be safe than sorry. > >> I may have been mistaken, but at the time, as presently, I didn't see >> the need to delve deeper into the PSU. > >All you need to do is disconnect the PSU from the machine, connect it to >dummy loads (car bulbs are what I noramlly use -- 6V ones on the +5V >line, for example) and check the output voltages. You don't need to >investigate the internals of the PSU unless there's something wrong. > >-tony > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 15 10:37:11 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Nice bit of test gear history... In-Reply-To: <200411132236020493.009E9D87@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041115113711.00969ad0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Nice Find! One of the nicest gadgets that I have is a POST card that not only shows the POST results but also also the IRQs, voltages and other important signals, In addition, it also has ROM on it and you can boot the ssytem from the ROM and it has numerous diagnostic tests. It's nNice for non-MS-DOS systems or for systems with no operating floppy drive or other problems. Sorry don't recall who made it at the moment but I fount it in a pile of junk cards at a hamfest for a buck or two. Look though them junk boxs! Sometimes you find some real treasures in them! Joe At 10:36 PM 11/13/04 -0800, you wrote: > My inner voice kept urging me to stop by the local used-computer place today despite my currently low cash level. Now I know why. > > Besides the SCSI connection adapter I needed, I also picked up a neat piece of computing test equipment history. It's a V-ATE POST and diagnostic test card, made by Vista Microsystems and vintage about 1991. > > I remember seeing these things (and lusting after them, but I couldn't afford $2,300+ at the time) in the Specialized Products catalog of the time, right alongside the Lynx floppy-disk tester/exercisers, RS232 breakout boxes, and other such goodies. I never in my wildest dreams thought I'd ever own one. > > This particular board will work in any AT-type system with an ISA slot. Besides doing the usual POST code readout and diagnostic functions, it will also function as an AT-bus specific logic analyzer. > > God only knows what I'm going to use it for right now, but I just couldn't leave it there to be picked up by some brainless boob who has no idea of the history of the thing, much less how to use it! > > And I thought I was done collecting computer hardware some years ago. At least I'm not bringing home VAXstations now... ;-) > > Keep the peace(es). > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, >Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com >kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m >"If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" > > > From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Nov 15 12:11:58 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration effort on the way! References: <1100462448.3918.36.camel@fortran> <3.0.6.32.20041115112755.00969ad0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <16792.61806.503893.516196@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Joe" == Joe R writes: Joe> Testing power supplies before powering up a system is just plain Joe> paranoid! (And I'm trying to be polite here!) There are a Joe> thousand parts in modern computers that can cause just as much Joe> damage!!!!!!!! I disagree -- at least in the case of linear regulator supplies, which is what you'll normally find in a classic computer. A very simple and very nasty failure in a linear regulator is a short in the pass transistor. If that happens, you get a much higher output voltage, and there is no current limiting. It's a fair bet that this will fry a large fraction of the semiconductors in your system. If the supply has a "crowbar overvoltage protection" circuit in it, that's a different matter. But testing a linear supply is trivial. So why not do it? If you let the magic smoke out of the computer, it's too late... paul From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Nov 15 12:31:44 2004 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: DEC colours Message-ID: <64.483c9b96.2eca5010@aol.com> Pantone numbers are what you would use to communicate with a print shop if you needed to get an exact replication of color in a lithographic printing job. I, too, would be interested in the Pantone Numbers for DEC equipment. Paxton Astoria, OR From allain at panix.com Mon Nov 15 12:33:21 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Kildall mentioned References: <3.0.6.32.20041115113711.00969ad0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <031e01c4cb41$965852a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I just heard from a radio interview that the book of the PBS series 'They Made America' supposedly mentions Gary Kildall. No guarantee, but if the ser. is in chnonological order then you might want to check it out two weeks from today. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/theymadeamerica/ He's in the book, they said. John A. Not affiliated with the book or show. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 15 12:05:30 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Sanyo Items Offered In-Reply-To: References: <001901c4ca59$68613e40$21406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041115130530.0091ac50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Ah, Thanks Sellam. I'll try to return the favor sometime. Joe At 11:13 PM 11/14/04 -0800, Sellam wrote: >On Sun, 14 Nov 2004, Keys wrote: > >> Does anyone in or near Colorado want the following items Sanyo MBC550 and a >> Sanyo monitor ? Email me and I will put you in contact with the person that >> has them. > >Joe Rigdon LOVES those Sany MBC550 computers! Send it to him...I'll be >he'll be glad to pay for shipping, maybe even throw in a few bucks on top. > >:)~ > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 15 12:16:32 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: DEC colours In-Reply-To: <1100525289.7173.53.camel@weka.localdomain> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041115131632.0091b2a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> If you take a sample to a store that sells automtive paint they'll match it up exactly.* There are LOTS more automotive colors than home colors. After all, the auto manufacturers come out with new colors very year. You don't paint your house a new color every year do you? Once you find a color match how about reporting it here. Maybe someone will collect all of the reports and make a cross reference. *Well not just any store that sells auto paint. Discount Auto Parts and the like only sell what comes in spray cans. Go to a store that sells auto paint to paint shops. They custom mix everything. Joe At 01:28 PM 11/15/04 +0000, you wrote: >On Sun, 2004-11-14 at 23:22 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >> Any local paint store or paint department in the local hardware store >> should be able to do a computerized paint match if you bring in a sample. >> I used Behr color swatches from the Home Depot to match the colors for the >> PDP-1 replica I did and they came out *very* close. > >Agreed. The matches tend not to be perfect, even without taking sun fade >into account. For a computer where it'll be indoors anyway they're >probably acceptable though! > >cheers > >Jules > > > From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Mon Nov 15 12:53:09 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration effort on the way! In-Reply-To: <16792.61806.503893.516196@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <1100462448.3918.36.camel@fortran> <3.0.6.32.20041115112755.00969ad0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <16792.61806.503893.516196@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <1100544789.3918.93.camel@fortran> On Mon, 2004-11-15 at 13:11 -0500, Paul Koning wrote: > >>>>> "Joe" == Joe R writes: > > Joe> Testing power supplies before powering up a system is just plain > Joe> paranoid! (And I'm trying to be polite here!) There are a > Joe> thousand parts in modern computers that can cause just as much > Joe> damage!!!!!!!! > > I disagree -- at least in the case of linear regulator supplies, which > is what you'll normally find in a classic computer. I am for testing them in some cases, like the PDP-7. I was without much experience at the time, and with a machine of which 6 are known to exist, I would MUCH rather err on the side of caution and spend a few hours testing/reforming caps than watch the fireworks of computer history. > If the supply has a "crowbar overvoltage protection" circuit in it, > that's a different matter. This PSU is rugged and has "Voltage OK" lights on all the voltage lines. It is according to a man who is knowing, incredibly sturdy and used with defense systems all over the country. > But testing a linear supply is trivial. > So why not do it? TRIVIAL? All the leads running into the PSU are *BOLTED* on two large bars labelled -5V and +5V. I had no tools at the time. The PSU itself is inside the rack and there it will stay until I get it out, which I'm not going to, because the thing is held in place by numerous screws and is shit-heavy. If I got the screws loose, it would probably crash down on the CPU. > > If you let the magic smoke out of the computer, it's too late... In this case, no magic smoke as expected. But access to a complete array of spares if nessecary. Oh, and the CPU is built in TTL logic, so no hard-to-get spares. (Not that magic smoke is *desirable*!) I stand by my desicion to test the PDP-7, and not to test the Nord-10/S. -- Tore S Bekkedal From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 15 12:59:30 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: DEC colours In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041115131632.0091b2a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > You don't paint your house a new color every year do you? You haven't met my wife. > *Well not just any store that sells auto paint. Discount Auto Parts > and the like only sell what comes in spray cans. Go to a store that > sells auto paint to paint shops. They custom mix everything. How much per pint/gallon? (Or metric buttload for the EU folks). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Nov 15 13:00:49 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration effort on the way! References: <1100462448.3918.36.camel@fortran> <3.0.6.32.20041115112755.00969ad0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <16792.61806.503893.516196@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1100544789.3918.93.camel@fortran> Message-ID: <16792.64737.6893.451424@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tore" == Tore S Bekkedal writes: >> If the supply has a "crowbar overvoltage protection" circuit in >> it, that's a different matter. Tore> This PSU is rugged and has "Voltage OK" lights on all the Tore> voltage lines. It is according to a man who is knowing, Tore> incredibly sturdy and used with defense systems all over the Tore> country. "Incredibly sturdy" is nice. But that doesn't translate into "cannot ever fail". "Voltage ok" may mean there's a crowbar, or it may only mean there is a voltage monitor. Those are very different things. Voltage monitors wouldn't protect you against a regulator short. Tore> But access to a complete array of spares if nessecary. Oh, and Tore> the CPU is built in TTL logic, so no hard-to-get spares. TTL is getting hard to find, especially the more obscure types such as 74S series. (And if the book says they want 74S, it's quite possible no other variant will work...) paul From allain at panix.com Mon Nov 15 13:00:28 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: DEC colours References: <3.0.6.32.20041115131632.0091b2a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <035c01c4cb45$5fea7780$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> The thing that ticks me about Pantone, Behr, Sherman Williams or whatever is that they're proprietary systems and RGB is the "Open Source" solution, going back to basic principles and should be communicable to the proprietary mixer systems, but not the reverse. BTW I have a 2nd hand Pantone guide right here, it reads out to "three parts pantone light red and 1/8 part ..." yadda. John A. From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Mon Nov 15 13:01:55 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: DEC colours In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1100545315.3918.100.camel@fortran> On Mon, 2004-11-15 at 10:59 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > How much per pint/gallon? (Or metric buttload for the EU folks). It runs in at about 2.6 Metric Fortunes per Buttload, but on special offerings and such you can get them for just over 1 Fortune. :) -- Tore S Bekkedal From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Nov 15 13:02:52 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Wives and computers - audio References: Message-ID: <4198FD5C.7000005@jetnet.ab.ca> Jim Isbell, W5JAI wrote: > This came to light most recently when I installed a Lansing sub woofer > speaker system. Its not the latest technology and I even got it off E > Bay for only $2.25 but it is the best I have ever heard. Now she > wants one!!! But how much was shipping? Remeber sub woofers are not ment to heard, they just are to add bass that is the same volume as the rest of the music. From news at computercollector.com Mon Nov 15 13:10:11 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Kildall mentioned In-Reply-To: <031e01c4cb41$965852a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20041115191011.13730.qmail@web52810.mail.yahoo.com> Just checked out the web site... they give Donna Dubinsky credit as the force behind PDAs! There's a brief mention of Jeff Hawkins, and an even briefer mention of the Newton as a "market dud". Sigh... talk about your dummied-down history. I ought to send these people my research of PDAs from the 1970s. I didn't check out the rest of the web site. Anyone else see other glaring myths or oversimplifications? --- John Allain wrote: > I just heard from a radio interview that the book of the > PBS series 'They Made America' supposedly mentions Gary Kildall. > No guarantee, but if the ser. is in chnonological order then > you might want to check it out two weeks from today. > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/theymadeamerica/ > He's in the book, they said. > > John A. > Not affiliated with the book or show. > > > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit the museums directory and read about past events at our web site: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 585 readers and counting! From peterbrown10 at hotmail.com Mon Nov 15 13:17:26 2004 From: peterbrown10 at hotmail.com (Peter Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: HP 2113B service manual / schematics Message-ID: Hi All, I'm in the process of powering up a 2113B. I took a look at the output voltages from the PSU and they all look fine *except* the -2 volt line that appears to be running at -2.47 volts. I have the 2109B / 2113B installation and service manual but the service procedure just talks about adjusting the 5 volt line and all the other supply voltages tracking this one. I can't find a schematic for the power supply in the documentation that I have 02109-90015. Questions: 1. Is my copy of 02109-9005 (Installation and service manual) incomplete i.e. should there be a schematic in it? 2. Does anyone have a schematic for the 2019B / 2113B computer power supply. Note that the 'B' is important as the power supply was revised between the 'A' and 'B' models. 3. What is the -2 volt line used for? 4. Does it matter that the -2 volt line is outside specification? 5. Is a full schematic available for the 2113B computer? - I'm sort of interested in what exactly is going on on the motherboard. Many thanks Peter Brown From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 15 12:21:23 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Wives and computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041115132123.0091b940@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Jim, I did the same thing about 20 years ago. Now my wife has NEWER computer and audio gear than I do :-/ However she still can't see the value in an original IBM PC, old Intel Multibus system or any of the other GOOD stuff. Joe At 11:35 AM 11/15/04 -0600, Jim Isbell wrote: >I think I creatated a Frankinstein Monster!! > >For 40 years my wife has not been interested in computers. 5 years >ago I finially got her introduced to computers. She surfs the >internet lika pro, installs her own software etc. > >BUT...now she expects to have the system updated every two weeks. She >used to be satisfied with my cast offs but now she wants the latest!! > >This came to light most recently when I installed a Lansing sub woofer >speaker system. Its not the latest technology and I even got it off E >Bay for only $2.25 but it is the best I have ever heard. Now she >wants one!!! >-- >Jim Isbell >W5JAI >UV #257 >CAL 27 #221 > From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Nov 15 13:37:21 2004 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: DEC colours Message-ID: <158.43cd5d5d.2eca5f71@aol.com> In a message dated 11/15/04 11:03:11 AM Pacific Standard Time, allain@panix.com writes: BTW I have a 2nd hand Pantone guide right here, it reads out to "three parts Pantone light red and 1/8 part ..." yadda Well, that is how I mix the ink colors, by weight. Makes doing parts easy. All major ink manufacturers sell Pantone colors so you can mix whatever color you want. The only inks sold in RGB type colors are multiple color process inks and to blend them it is a process of screens and angles and you need to have multiple passes through the press. RGB does not lend itself to printing processes well. It is much cheaper to print just one color. John, since you have a Pantone book could you match the numbers to the DEC stuff you have? On each color swatch there should be a corresponding number. That is what is important not the formulation. You want to ignore the C and U letters as they refer to Coated and Uncoated, more printing terms. (refers to whether you are printing a clear gloss coat on top of the ink to get the glossy look or if printed on gloss stock.) Somewhere DEC published the Pantone numbers in their documents they sent to printers...... PS Printers are supposed to upgrade their $50 Pantone books every 6 months to deal with fading, not many I know did that. Paxton Astoria, OR From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Mon Nov 15 13:56:40 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: DEC colours In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1100548600.3918.104.camel@fortran> On Mon, 2004-11-15 at 10:59 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > You don't paint your house a new color every year do you? > You haven't met my wife. Suddenly I hear the word "floatbg" in my head... ;) -- Tore S Bekkedal From birs23 at zeelandnet.nl Mon Nov 15 14:08:28 2004 From: birs23 at zeelandnet.nl (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Tecmar 1st Mate card Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.0.20041115210521.03cb98b8@pop.xs4all.nl> Does anyone know what a Tecmar 1st mate card is ? It came from an IBM PC and has one male 25 pin connector on the card itself and has another 25 pin female connector attached to a flatcable. Its from 1982 and probably has part number 200029. Stefan. ------------------------------------------------------- http://www.oldcomputercollection.com From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon Nov 15 14:07:25 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: DEC colours In-Reply-To: <035c01c4cb45$5fea7780$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <3.0.6.32.20041115131632.0091b2a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <035c01c4cb45$5fea7780$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <200411152014.PAA14360@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > The thing that ticks me about Pantone, Behr, Sherman Williams or > whatever is that they're proprietary systems and RGB is the "Open > Source" solution, going back to basic principles and should be > communicable to the proprietary mixer systems, but not the reverse. RGB isn't enough - not everyone's visual system's response can be modeled accurately by RGB. (Some people have colour receptors whose response peaks are at nonstandard frequencies; a few people even have more than three different colour receptors.) The only really comprehensive way would be to give the full frequency-vs-albedo curve. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 15 14:39:14 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: DEC colours In-Reply-To: <1100548600.3918.104.camel@fortran> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > On Mon, 2004-11-15 at 10:59 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > You don't paint your house a new color every year do you? > > You haven't met my wife. > Suddenly I hear the word "floatbg" in my head... ;) I don't, because I can't figure out how that's supposed to be pronounced :\ -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 15 14:39:34 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: Tecmar 1st Mate card In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.0.20041115210521.03cb98b8@pop.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, Stefan wrote: > Does anyone know what a Tecmar 1st mate card is ? > It came from an IBM PC and has one male 25 pin connector on the card itself > and has another 25 pin female connector attached to a flatcable. Its from > 1982 and probably has part number 200029. Tecmar made tape drives for the PC. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Mon Nov 15 14:55:23 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:40 2005 Subject: DEC colours In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1100552123.3918.108.camel@fortran> On Mon, 2004-11-15 at 12:39 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > > > On Mon, 2004-11-15 at 10:59 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > > You don't paint your house a new color every year do you? > > > You haven't met my wife. > > Suddenly I hear the word "floatbg" in my head... ;) > > I don't, because I can't figure out how that's supposed to be pronounced > :\ > Floatbg is a unix toy that slowly, slowly floats the X desktop background. It's pronounced floatbg. Description: slowly modify the color of the X root window Subtly changes the color of the root window over time, so slowly that it won't be noticed. This is a good alternative to placing a picture in the root window. I think that it's so old-skool that it's actually on topic :) -- Tore S Bekkedal From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 15 14:53:19 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration effort on the way! In-Reply-To: <16792.61806.503893.516196@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <1100462448.3918.36.camel@fortran> <3.0.6.32.20041115112755.00969ad0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041115155319.00909740@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:11 PM 11/15/04 -0500, you wrote: >>>>>> "Joe" == Joe R writes: > > Joe> Testing power supplies before powering up a system is just plain > Joe> paranoid! (And I'm trying to be polite here!) There are a > Joe> thousand parts in modern computers that can cause just as much > Joe> damage!!!!!!!! > >I disagree -- at least in the case of linear regulator supplies, which >is what you'll normally find in a classic computer. > >A very simple and very nasty failure in a linear regulator is a short >in the pass transistor. If that happens, you get a much higher output >voltage, and there is no current limiting. It's a fair bet that this >will fry a large fraction of the semiconductors in your system. > >If the supply has a "crowbar overvoltage protection" circuit in it, >that's a different matter. But testing a linear supply is trivial. >So why not do it? I disagree. Testing a power supply is far from trivial and merely reading the open circuit voltage tells you virtually nothing. Power supplies need to be tested under load (like batteries) and things like ripple and regulation need to be checked. In fact, you can damage many PSUs by not having a suffient load on them. And without a load others will go into overvoltage and trip the crowbar circuits and thus appear to be bad. That's why I said that you need the specs for the supplies so you can be sure of having an adaquete load to prevent damage (or know if they can be operated with no load) and what the permissible regulation and ripple specs are as well as the current capacity. If you don't know exactly what they're supposed to do, how do you think you can test them? AND as I pointed out, I've had tested powers supplies fail TWICE just in the last week after operating a short time so even if you do an adaquete test you can't be sure that they won't fail in use. AND we haven't even talked about how you're supposed to know such simple things as the rated voltage outputs and pinouts of odd-ball things like the Nord that was being discussed. Tell me, do YOU know what the outputs of the Nord PSU are supposed to be and where the test points are??? > >If you let the magic smoke out of the computer, it's too late... And you can still let the smoke out even after days of testing as I pointed out in my message. And that's based on an ACTUAL example and not some hypothetical discussion. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 15 15:06:54 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: identify this MicroSolutions card? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041115160654.009af5e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found this in a load of scrap this weekend. It's marked MicroSolutions (makers of the highly desirable Capticards) so I grabbed it. It fits an 8 bit ISA slot and says Pacific Rim Technologies on the component side and MicroSolutions on the other. It has jumpers for address (only marked A and B) as well as DMA and IRQ settings. It's only about 4 inches long and has a UM8272A LSI IC and about a dozen SSI ICs. There is a D(something) 37F connector on the back on the card and solder pads for 34 ribbon cable header on the inside edge but no header installed. What have I got? I'm sure that it's some kind of floppy drive controller but nothing beyond that. joe From melamy at earthlink.net Mon Nov 15 15:05:45 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Tecmar 1st Mate card Message-ID: <17880631.1100552745544.JavaMail.root@rowlf.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Tecmar also made PC expansion cards. I recall a TECMAR Graphics Master video card too. I recall the 1st Mate, but not as a tape controller. I would suspect it was an I/O expansion. The large chips would be the ones to ID the fuctionality - 8250(40 pin) - serial, MM58167(24 pin) - time of day clock, 74LS374(20 pin) - parallel port best regards, Steve On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, Stefan wrote: > Does anyone know what a Tecmar 1st mate card is ? From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Nov 15 15:08:38 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: DEC colours References: <3.0.6.32.20041115131632.0091b2a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <035c01c4cb45$5fea7780$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <16793.6870.204447.960189@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "John" == John Allain writes: John> The thing that ticks me about Pantone, Behr, Sherman Williams John> or whatever is that they're proprietary systems and RGB is the John> "Open Source" solution, going back to basic principles and John> should be communicable to the proprietary mixer systems, but John> not the reverse. John> BTW I have a 2nd hand Pantone guide right here, it reads out to John> "three parts pantone light red and 1/8 part ..." yadda. Pantone is a system for making up well-defined colors in a printing process. RGB is not applicable there. CMYK is somewhat closer, but it doesn't do the job either -- there are plenty of Pantone colors that can't be created by process color (CMYK). Pantone is proprietary, perhaps, in a sense. But it's an industry standard known by everyone in the printing industry world wide. If you want to tell a printer about a color, that's how you do it. I suspect it predates RGB color and computer graphics, though I'm not sure about that. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Nov 15 15:19:10 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: DEC colours References: <158.43cd5d5d.2eca5f71@aol.com> Message-ID: <16793.7502.363129.427065@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Innfogra" == Innfogra writes: Innfogra> Somewhere DEC published the Pantone numbers in their Innfogra> documents they sent to printers...... I know I saw a Pantone number the last time the corporate style changed, the purple logo with the round dot on the i -- the one after they kicked Ken out. For a lot of other things the internal documents reference DEC internal color codes. For example, my Pro 380 spec says the system box top/bottom are "68 Gray per DEC Std. 92". The LK201 keyboard is also that color. So what you really need is a copy of DEC Std 92. Maybe someone on this list has a copy. With luck, that will show the translations to Pantone. paul From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Nov 15 15:26:39 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: DEC colours In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041115131632.0091b2a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041115131632.0091b2a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1100553999.7847.37.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-11-15 at 13:16 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > If you take a sample to a store that sells automtive paint they'll > match it up exactly.* Been there, done that. The systems they use for colour matching aren't that precise - not enough to do an exact job. I went to five or so different paint specialists a while ago, and they all say the same thing. Yep, you can get close - and certainly close enough that you won't notice any difference indoors, but it isn't an exact match. Place two items together in good light where one's been sprayed with the matched paint and you'll probably be able to tell. I believe the innacuracy is in the mixing process rather than the analysis phase; the larger quantity of paint you order the closer the match gets. Plus I'm not sure what the situation is in the US, but over here the specialists can legally only sell to licenced people (of course the people you actually talk to tend to bend the rules a little) cheers Jules From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Mon Nov 15 15:35:25 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim stephens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Sun manuals available for pickup, Santa Ana, Southern Cal, also other "stuff" Message-ID: <4199211D.1FC9F373@msm.umr.edu> I am cleaning out a storage locker and have a lot of stuff I won't take, that I can hardly begin to count up here. the best item for this list is a pile of older sun manuals for anyone into old sun 4.x stuff, and early solaris. I also have tapes and what have you too. I have some sun 3/x stuff left, from some things that I could get from long ago, such as some smd drives and cabinets. Please plan to pick this up. I do not have the means to ship this stuff. Jim Stephens From marvin at rain.org Mon Nov 15 15:45:01 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Norsk Data History Message-ID: <4199235D.1FE7DA98@rain.org> Norsk Data struck chord somewhere in my memory, and I found my copy of "Norsk Data - A Success Story" by Per Oyvind Heradstveit. Published in 1985, it covers the history from its founding in 1967 through 1984. A quick book search turned up no hits, so I have no idea how easy or how hard this book might be to find. However, for anyone interested in Norsk Data, it is a wonderful book! From medavidson at mac.com Mon Nov 15 15:53:07 2004 From: medavidson at mac.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Sperry anyone? In-Reply-To: <419891D6.4030909@pacbell.net> References: <419891D6.4030909@pacbell.net> Message-ID: One (the first link) went very cheap ($5.50)... the other got zero bids. I've already sent e-mail to the seller asking what they are going to do with it (relist, etc). Mark On Nov 15, 2004, at 3:24 AM, William Maddox wrote: > The 5000/50 is apparently a 68020-based Unix box, formerly the NCR > Tower series. There doesn't seem to be much interest -- looks like > they'll go > cheap. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? > ViewItem&category=1247&item=5136977541&rd=1 > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? > ViewItem&category=1247&item=5136979040&rd=1 > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Nov 15 16:02:01 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Norsk Data history site translated! In-Reply-To: <1100505643.3918.45.camel@fortran> References: <1100505643.3918.45.camel@fortran> Message-ID: <1100556121.7847.48.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-11-15 at 09:00 +0100, Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > Allright, I got around to translating a part of the Norwegian ND history > site. It's now up under > > http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~toresbe/nd/stuff/history > > Read and rejoice :) Brilliant! Plus I now know what the ND100 we'll be getting actually looks like ;) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 15 16:46:52 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: SMS 8000 model 40 Operating System? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041115174652.00949a40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Anybody what OS these use or anything else about them? I picked up seven of them with docs this past weekend. They're rackmount chassis with 5 Multibus 1 slots. According to the manual they have an Intel 86/35 CPU card, 4 Mb of RAM, a 12 Mb Seagate ST 213 12Mb hard drive with an intel iSBC 214 controller, a 48 TPI 5 1/4" floppy drive and a SMS peripheral controller. I have dug into any of them yet to check. I'll be asking lots more questions. I picked up an American Buttload* of computers this past weekend. And you won't believe where they came from! *That's at least 2x a Metric Buttload! Joe From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Nov 15 17:14:09 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: HP 2113B service manual / schematics References: Message-ID: <011501c4cb68$d01c7620$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Peter; see http://www.classiccmp.org/bitsavers/pdf/hp/1000/1000_MEF_EngrRef/ It's "the scoop!" Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Brown" To: Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 1:17 PM Subject: HP 2113B service manual / schematics > Hi All, > > I'm in the process of powering up a 2113B. I took a look at the output > voltages from the PSU and they all look fine *except* the -2 volt line > that appears to be running at -2.47 volts. > > I have the 2109B / 2113B installation and service manual but the service > procedure just talks about adjusting the 5 volt line and all the other > supply voltages tracking this one. > > I can't find a schematic for the power supply in the documentation that I > have 02109-90015. > > Questions: > > 1. Is my copy of 02109-9005 (Installation and service manual) incomplete > i.e. should there be a schematic in it? > 2. Does anyone have a schematic for the 2019B / 2113B computer power > supply. Note that the 'B' is important as the power supply was revised > between the 'A' and 'B' models. > 3. What is the -2 volt line used for? > 4. Does it matter that the -2 volt line is outside specification? > 5. Is a full schematic available for the 2113B computer? - I'm sort of > interested in what exactly is going on on the motherboard. > > Many thanks > > Peter Brown > > > > From dmabry at mich.com Mon Nov 15 17:19:57 2004 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: SMS 8000 model 40 Operating System? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041115174652.00949a40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041115174652.00949a40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <4199399D.3070308@mich.com> Hi Joe, Assuming you are talking about the one you sent me a photo of. You already know as much as I would guess. They look like a system 86/3xx, but I don't know the specifics. It looks like you really have to learn iRMX. I did remember one thing about it. Seems like there was an administrator account out of the box called "superuser". Don't know the default password. Give it a try. I never did anything with Xenix. So nothing to remember. Sorry. BTW, can't remember if I told you, but I located my ISIS-II(W) and can send you a copy of the boot diskette. Assume you want DD, right? The cable from the MDS to the winchester disk package was a three-row D-connector. Probably one-to-one. Does your chassis have something like that connector on it? Dave Joe R. wrote: > Anybody what OS these use or anything else about them? I picked up > seven of them with docs this past weekend. They're rackmount chassis > with 5 Multibus 1 slots. According to the manual they have an Intel > 86/35 CPU card, 4 Mb of RAM, a 12 Mb Seagate ST 213 12Mb hard drive > with an intel iSBC 214 controller, a 48 TPI 5 1/4" floppy drive and a > SMS peripheral controller. I have dug into any of them yet to check. > > I'll be asking lots more questions. I picked up an American Buttload* > of computers this past weekend. And you won't believe where they came > from! > > *That's at least 2x a Metric Buttload! > > > Joe > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 15 17:41:30 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: FA: Intel Bubble Memory card and bunch of SGI Onyx Reality Engine boards Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041115184130.009cd670@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> See Joe From melamy at earthlink.net Mon Nov 15 17:57:47 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: looking for a plm80 compiler for Intel ISIS-II Message-ID: <7609648.1100563067453.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> hi all, I have a ISIS version of kermit that requires a PLM compiler to "fix" Does anyone have a copy available? I must have left my copy back in Seattle and I was trying to get a bunch of files copied over, but I need to fix kermit first... Thanks! best regards, Steve Thatcher From dmabry at mich.com Mon Nov 15 18:14:56 2004 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: looking for a plm80 compiler for Intel ISIS-II In-Reply-To: <7609648.1100563067453.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> References: <7609648.1100563067453.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <41994680.2050302@mich.com> Steve, I can transfer it from my ISIS system to a PC and e-mail it to you. But if you need it for Kermit, then you may be in a Catch-22. Let me know if I should do the transfer and e-mail the files to you. If you have a way to get the files to your Intel system, I can send you a Kermit that is already working on the MDS. Dave Steve Thatcher wrote: > hi all, I have a ISIS version of kermit that requires a PLM compiler > to "fix" Does anyone have a copy available? I must have left my copy > back in Seattle and I was trying to get a bunch of files copied over, > but I need to fix kermit first... Thanks! > > best regards, Steve Thatcher > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 15 18:03:52 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041115112755.00969ad0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at Nov 15, 4 11:27:55 am Message-ID: > > Testing power supplies before powering up a system is just plain > paranoid! (And I'm trying to be polite here!) There are a thousand parts Nad anyone who doesn't do so is just plain clueless (and I am being _very_ poilite) here. I've seen (and had to repair) the damage caused by a wayward PSU... Some PSUs have no overvoltage protection at all. Top of that list is the HP9815, 9825, 9831, 9877, etc. If the 5V chopper shorts in one of those (and it does quite often) you can bet you'll be replacing every chip in the machine, just about. The 9815 is a particularly nasty one since the PSU can't be disconnecte from everything else, but at least you can remove the CPU and kayboard/display PCBs, the tape drive, and unplug the printhead (which is a custom hybrid circuit). Then all that dies if the PSU is faulty are a few TTL chips on the PSU/interface board. Next on the list are the Bozchert 2-stage switchers. These have a non-isolated switching regulator to bring the 350V (rectified mains) down to about 150V, which then feeds a free-running oscillator driving the chopper transformer. Regulation is applied to the first regulator stage. If that first chopper shorts, the output rails all jump to about double what they should be. You hope the crowbar fires, but then the overcurrent trip on the primary side doesn't do anything (it works on the first regulator, which is shorted), so you hope that the fuse or the second choppers fail befor the crowbar SCR. Normally they do, but... And I am sure I've come across a device (I don't think it was a computer per se) where the PSU outputs lept to the unregulated input voltages (less the saturation voltage of the pass transsitors) if the PSU control PCB was removed. You're talking about a second-hand machine here, no idea what board have been 'borrowed'... > in modern computers that can cause just as much damage!!!!!!!! Just Name one other failure that will take out every chip in the machine. > location and every register. (Anybody have schematics for the HP > F-series CPU?) Trace them out yourself. I've done it for lots of HP devices... > happened! The PSU started making a loud sizzling sound and poured out > copious smoke! All that testing and prior running gave no hint of the > impending failure! What's more, this is the SECOND time that I've had a > HP 1000 PSU fail after running for over an hour. FWIW I pulled the PSU That sounds like a PSU that needs to be run on a soak test fro quite a time, then... > out of another untested machine, put it in this one (without testing > it!) and everythings working again. > > IF I had an absolutely unrepairable, irreplacceable computer and IF IMHO _all_ classic computers are irreplaceable! > I had all the PSU specs and pinouts it MIGHT justify the trouble of Powering up machines without having read and understood the technical manual/schematics is a second moan of mine, but... > testing a PSU before using it to power up a computer but otherwise > forget it! It takes about 5 minutes to test a PUS on dummy load. No longer. It's _always_ worth doing. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 15 18:06:52 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: <16792.61806.503893.516196@gargle.gargle.HOWL> from "Paul Koning" at Nov 15, 4 01:11:58 pm Message-ID: > > >>>>> "Joe" == Joe R writes: > > Joe> Testing power supplies before powering up a system is just plain > Joe> paranoid! (And I'm trying to be polite here!) There are a > Joe> thousand parts in modern computers that can cause just as much > Joe> damage!!!!!!!! > > I disagree -- at least in the case of linear regulator supplies, which > is what you'll normally find in a classic computer. > > A very simple and very nasty failure in a linear regulator is a short > in the pass transistor. If that happens, you get a much higher output Worse are the non-isolated switching regulators, like those DEC PSU bricks. They have a higher input-output drop (typically about 30V DC on the input side for a 5V output) and if the chopper transistor shorts, it all appears across the output terminals! > voltage, and there is no current limiting. It's a fair bet that this > will fry a large fraction of the semiconductors in your system. > > If the supply has a "crowbar overvoltage protection" circuit in it, > that's a different matter. But testing a linear supply is trivial. > So why not do it? I'd rather not trust a protection device if I don't have to. Sure I like crowbar circuits, and they have saved my chips a few times, but I don't like to depend on them. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 15 18:11:19 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: <16792.64737.6893.451424@gargle.gargle.HOWL> from "Paul Koning" at Nov 15, 4 02:00:49 pm Message-ID: > "Voltage ok" may mean there's a crowbar, or it may only mean there is > a voltage monitor. Those are very different things. Voltage monitors I would suspect that latter, and not a particularly good monitor at that. I've met PSUs where all the 'idiot lights' were on, but there were still problems (excessive ripple on one of the outputs, for example). > wouldn't protect you against a regulator short. > > Tore> But access to a complete array of spares if nessecary. Oh, and > Tore> the CPU is built in TTL logic, so no hard-to-get spares. > > TTL is getting hard to find, especially the more obscure types such as > 74S series. (And if the book says they want 74S, it's quite possible > no other variant will work...) 74S is trivial to find comparied with 74H (and yes I have found those in classic computers) or 74L (not 74LS, of course) .Even some plain 74xxx numbers are non-trivial to get now -- 74181 ALU, 7489 RAM, the fusible link PROMs, 7456 and 7456 (mains - 1Hz dividers), etc, etc, etc. A look through an old TTL databook will show a few dozen devices you'll no longer see in the catalogues. -tony From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 15 18:23:13 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: SMS 8000 model 40 Operating System? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041115174652.00949a40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > I'll be asking lots more questions. I picked up an American Buttload* > of computers this past weekend. And you won't believe where they came > from! Hopefully not from someone's butt (American or otherwise). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Nov 15 18:25:24 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: References: <16792.64737.6893.451424@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20041116002524.GA29431@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Nov 16, 2004 at 12:11:19AM +0000, Tony Duell wrote: > 74S is trivial to find comparied with 74H (and yes I have found those in > classic computers) or 74L (not 74LS, of course) I'd love to find a 74L00 for my Popular Electronics Elf... an 'LS00 works fine in this design, of course, but the whole point was to be historically accurate, and the article to add a 1861 _does_ list a 74L00. The actual machine in question is not a classic, but the design certainly is. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 16-Nov-2004 00:23 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -33.4 F (-36.3 C) Windchill -59.2 F (-50.7 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.2 kts Grid 060 Barometer 689.3 mb (10277. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Nov 15 18:36:57 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Sanyo Items Offered References: Message-ID: <01d601c4cb74$62439e60$37406b43@66067007> What's his email so that I can put the two guys together? Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 1:13 AM Subject: Re: Sanyo Items Offered > On Sun, 14 Nov 2004, Keys wrote: > >> Does anyone in or near Colorado want the following items Sanyo MBC550 and >> a >> Sanyo monitor ? Email me and I will put you in contact with the person >> that >> has them. > > Joe Rigdon LOVES those Sany MBC550 computers! Send it to him...I'll be > he'll be glad to pay for shipping, maybe even throw in a few bucks on top. > > :)~ > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From peterbrown10 at hotmail.com Mon Nov 15 18:48:25 2004 From: peterbrown10 at hotmail.com (Peter Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: HP 2113B service manual / schematics Message-ID: Hi Jay et al., I've had a look at the .pdf's that you suggested - interesting stuff! Unfortunately just as it begins to get really interesting it looks as though the pages are missing. The bits that are most relevant to me, 'B-series power supply', are listed in the index .pdf as being at the end of section 9 but the scans of these pages haven't been published. Does anyone have the relevant pages? Looks like section 9, page 132 and following... Cheers to all Peter Brown From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Nov 15 19:00:02 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20041115112755.00969ad0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041115195820.03b48200@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Tony Duell may have mentioned these words: > > in modern computers that can cause just as much damage!!!!!!!! Just > >Name one other failure that will take out every chip in the machine. Stick o'Dynomite.[1] Well, you *asked*! ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger [1] and it's certainly more fun than testing PSUs. -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com Hi! I am a .signature virus. Copy me into your .signature to join in! From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Nov 15 19:07:57 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: <20041116002524.GA29431@bos7.spole.gov> References: <16792.64737.6893.451424@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20041116002524.GA29431@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: In message <20041116002524.GA29431@bos7.spole.gov> Ethan Dicks wrote: > I'd love to find a 74L00 for my Popular Electronics Elf... an 'LS00 works > fine in this design, of course, but the whole point was to be historically > accurate, and the article to add a 1861 _does_ list a 74L00. > > The actual machine in question is not a classic, but the design certainly is. By "Popular Electronics Elf", I assume you mean the COSMAC Elf? 256 bytes of RAM, two HP hexadecimal LED displays (I used TIL311s instead), toggle-switch data input and a CDP1802 CPU :) I built one - nice little machine. Never really used it though. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... DOS Tip #3 : Don't use DOS. From chd_1 at nktelco.net Mon Nov 15 19:29:21 2004 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: KM11 maintenance module Message-ID: <419957F1.7020901@nktelco.net> Is there a schematic online for the DEC PDP-11 maintenance tool KM11? Googling, the best I found was a description by Tony Duell for a homebrew replacement. Excellent as that is, a schematic is just so much easier to read. From ohh at drizzle.com Mon Nov 15 20:07:04 2004 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Crowbar? (was: Re: Testing Power Supplies!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tony Duell wrote of crowbar protection circuits thus: > I'd rather not trust a protection device if I don't have to. Sure I like > crowbar circuits, and they have saved my chips a few times, but I don't > like to depend on them. Ah, twice in one week I get to expose my wanton ignorance. :) What typically makes up a crowbar circuit? How are they triggered? If I'm understanding this correctly, a crowbar quickly kills the PSU and then drains power from the system rapidly and nondestructively... but how it accomplishes this, or knows it _should_, I don't yet understand. O'course, one could accomplish this with an actual crowbar applied across the PSU output... but I suspect this would not be described as "nondestructive". :) -O.- From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Nov 15 20:17:52 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041115195820.03b48200@mail.30below.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041115112755.00969ad0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20041115195820.03b48200@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <20041115181707.D36093@shell.lmi.net> > > > in modern computers that can cause just as much damage!!!!!!!! Just > >Name one other failure that will take out every chip in the machine. On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Stick o'Dynomite.[1] > Well, you *asked*! ;-) or a college administration. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 15 20:30:01 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Crowbar? (was: Re: Testing Power Supplies!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041115213001.00902eb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:07 PM 11/15/04 -0800, you wrote: > >Tony Duell wrote of crowbar protection circuits thus: > >> I'd rather not trust a protection device if I don't have to. Sure I like >> crowbar circuits, and they have saved my chips a few times, but I don't >> like to depend on them. > >Ah, twice in one week I get to expose my wanton ignorance. :) What >typically makes up a crowbar circuit? How are they triggered? If I'm >understanding this correctly, a crowbar quickly kills the PSU and then >drains power from the system rapidly and nondestructively... but how it >accomplishes this, or knows it _should_, I don't yet understand. A crowbar is a very simple yet effective circuit to prevent PSUs from outputing excessive voltage. It's nothing more than a SCR (Silicon Controlled Rectifier) across the PSU output and a zener diode from the gate of the SCR to ground (and a small resistor to supply a small amount of current to the gate-zener junction). The zener sets the trip voltage of the SCR. The resistor-zener combination forms a small constant voltage source that is applied to the SCR gate. Anytime the PSU output exceeds the zener voltage (plus the gate voltage of the SCR) the SCR fires and becomes a dead short (minus a fraction of a volt due to the SCR PN junction) and the PSU output is shorted out. Once the SCR fires it says on regardless of the trigger voltage. The only way to remove the short is to turn off power to the PSU and let it discharge and then reapply power. As you might have guessed these circuits are very fast since they're so simple and they're located right on the PSU output. The FAST response and nearly dead short account for the name "crowbar". It has the effect similar to that of throwing a metal crowbar right across the PSU output. And yes the PSU had better be able to handle the almost dead short or have a fuse or circuit breaker in it or something is going to give! Joe > >O'course, one could accomplish this with an actual crowbar applied >across the PSU output... but I suspect this would not be described as >"nondestructive". :) > > -O.- > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 15 20:31:51 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: <20041115181707.D36093@shell.lmi.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20041115195820.03b48200@mail.30below.com> <3.0.6.32.20041115112755.00969ad0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20041115195820.03b48200@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041115213151.009ce7c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:17 PM 11/15/04 -0800, you wrote: >> > > in modern computers that can cause just as much damage!!!!!!!! Just >> >Name one other failure that will take out every chip in the machine. >On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, Roger Merchberger wrote: >> Stick o'Dynomite.[1] >> Well, you *asked*! ;-) > >or a college administration. > Or a crew of Pakistani maintenance workers! From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Mon Nov 15 21:01:13 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Wives and computers Message-ID: <0411160301.AA11685@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Jim Isbell, W5JAI wrote: > BUT...now she expects to have the system updated every two weeks. She > used to be satisfied with my cast offs but now she wants the latest!! You mean she can't use an ASR33? Why not? Teach her how to use one! MS From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Nov 15 21:13:10 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: HP 2113B service manual / schematics References: Message-ID: <000f01c4cb8a$34b06f80$9a88fea9@screamer> Your -2 supply sounds just fine. This supply voltage is used to terminate the I/O backplane, making the bus signal levels compatible with the original HP 2116, which used CTL logic. The 2113's processor uses modern TTL, with special drivers for backwards compatibility of the I/O bus. As to the power supply, there are about 20 different revisions, some with battery backup, some without. I think the schematics are on Al's web site for the processor. I'm less sure about the power supplies. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Brown" To: Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 2:17 PM Subject: HP 2113B service manual / schematics > Hi All, > > I'm in the process of powering up a 2113B. I took a look at the output > voltages from the PSU and they all look fine *except* the -2 volt line > that appears to be running at -2.47 volts. > > I have the 2109B / 2113B installation and service manual but the service > procedure just talks about adjusting the 5 volt line and all the other > supply voltages tracking this one. > > I can't find a schematic for the power supply in the documentation that I > have 02109-90015. > > Questions: > > 1. Is my copy of 02109-9005 (Installation and service manual) incomplete > i.e. should there be a schematic in it? > 2. Does anyone have a schematic for the 2019B / 2113B computer power > supply. Note that the 'B' is important as the power supply was revised > between the 'A' and 'B' models. > 3. What is the -2 volt line used for? > 4. Does it matter that the -2 volt line is outside specification? > 5. Is a full schematic available for the 2113B computer? - I'm sort of > interested in what exactly is going on on the motherboard. > > Many thanks > > Peter Brown > > From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Nov 15 21:27:26 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration effort on the way! In-Reply-To: <16792.64737.6893.451424@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: > TTL is getting hard to find, especially the more obscure types such as > 74S series. (And if the book says they want 74S, it's quite possible > no other variant will work...) I do not think 74S is very hard to find (apart from the unprogrammed PROMS, I suppose). Some of the 74L and 74H chips are getting difficult to find, but these are the chips that never were popular (like the expanders and AOI gates). As a side note - does anyone know a source for ECL PALs (10K preferred over 100K)? They were never popular either. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Nov 15 21:35:51 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: offlist request Message-ID: <001b01c4cb8d$5eed3e10$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> If anyone would like to help this person, contact me offlist.... -------------- Hello, I am not a programmer, but my husband is. He has 4 each 7" tapes and 2 each 11" tapes that I believe came from a old PDP11 On these tapes are stories that my husband wrote 15 to 18 years ago. His son, along with his fiancee and 7 of his best friends were killed in a tragic airplane accident in 2001. On one of the tapes is a story that he wrote. I thought if I could somehow download or get a copy in print form what is on the tapes it would be a wonderful gift to my husband. Please let me know if you can direct me where I might find someone to help me. Thank you, Sincerely, From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Nov 15 21:56:30 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: DEC colours References: <3.0.6.32.20041115131632.0091b2a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <035c01c4cb45$5fea7780$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <200411152014.PAA14360@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <41997A6E.40504@jetnet.ab.ca> der Mouse wrote: > > > RGB isn't enough - not everyone's visual system's response can be > modeled accurately by RGB. (Some people have colour receptors whose > response peaks are at nonstandard frequencies; a few people even have > more than three different colour receptors.) Just what kind of people have more than 3 color receptors. Offhand I think there is a older system for color mesurment and just forget what it was. Remember colors of light and colors of pigment require two different systems of mesurememnt. Play around with real raytracing and you will see how hard it is to get any realistic looking colors. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 15 22:45:44 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Sanyo Items Offered In-Reply-To: <01d601c4cb74$62439e60$37406b43@66067007> Message-ID: I don't know, I've never heard of either of them. On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, Keys wrote: > What's his email so that I can put the two guys together? Thanks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 1:13 AM > Subject: Re: Sanyo Items Offered > > > > On Sun, 14 Nov 2004, Keys wrote: > > > >> Does anyone in or near Colorado want the following items Sanyo MBC550 and > >> a > >> Sanyo monitor ? Email me and I will put you in contact with the person > >> that > >> has them. > > > > Joe Rigdon LOVES those Sany MBC550 computers! Send it to him...I'll be > > he'll be glad to pay for shipping, maybe even throw in a few bucks on top. > > > > :)~ > > > > -- > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > > Festival > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > > http://www.vintage.org > > > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > > mputers ] > > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > > > -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 15 22:51:17 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041115195820.03b48200@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Nov 15, 4 08:00:02 pm Message-ID: > > Rumor has it that Tony Duell may have mentioned these words: > > > > in modern computers that can cause just as much damage!!!!!!!! Just > > > >Name one other failure that will take out every chip in the machine. > > Stick o'Dynomite.[1] > > Well, you *asked*! ;-) That is not a _failure_ :-) -tony From brain at jbrain.com Mon Nov 15 22:52:03 2004 From: brain at jbrain.com (Jim Brain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: HP 1650B manuals? In-Reply-To: <000601c4cace$13991610$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <4198325B.4090803@jbrain.com> <000601c4cace$13991610$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <41998773.907@jbrain.com> Jay West wrote: > >> Picked up a nice 1650B logic analyzer, but no manuals. Before I >> debate about spending $100.00 for a set of manuals, I thought I'd see >> if someone has a 1650A/B manual around, or has copies. > > > I'm not sure of the difference in models, but I have 1631D manuals. > > I'm still on the prowl for a service manual for the Facit N4000 :\ > > Jay West I believe there is quite a bit of different between the models, but thanks. jim -- Jim Brain, Brain Innovations brain@jbrain.com http://www.jbrain.com Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, Old CBM computers, and Good Times! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 15 22:56:44 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Crowbar? (was: Re: Testing Power Supplies!) In-Reply-To: from "O. Sharp" at Nov 15, 4 06:07:04 pm Message-ID: > > > Tony Duell wrote of crowbar protection circuits thus: > > > I'd rather not trust a protection device if I don't have to. Sure I like > > crowbar circuits, and they have saved my chips a few times, but I don't > > like to depend on them. > > Ah, twice in one week I get to expose my wanton ignorance. :) What > typically makes up a crowbar circuit? How are they triggered? If I'm > understanding this correctly, a crowbar quickly kills the PSU and then > drains power from the system rapidly and nondestructively... but how it > accomplishes this, or knows it _should_, I don't yet understand. > > O'course, one could accomplish this with an actual crowbar applied > across the PSU output... but I suspect this would not be described as > "nondestructive". :) CLose :-). The idea is to be non-destructive to the rest of the machine, even if it ends up destroying parts of the defective PSU. You want to short-circuit the PSU outputs (normally only the +5V output) if it goes overvoltage. Typically the circuit is something like : -------------+-----------------------+--------------------o +5V | | ----- | 5V1 zener ^ | | / | \ | | | | \ | / +--------------------\ V SCR | -------- | | / | \ | 100 Ohm / | \ | | | --------------+-----------------------+-------------------o oV If the 5V rail goes overvoltage, the zener breaks down and turns on the SCR which short-circuits the 5V rail (and carries on shorting it until the PSU output current drops to close to zero). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 15 23:02:25 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Nov 15, 4 10:27:26 pm Message-ID: > PROMS, I suppose). Some of the 74L and 74H chips are getting difficult to > find, but these are the chips that never were popular (like the expanders > and AOI gates). Thay may not have been popular, but they were used. The HP98x0 processor (bit-serial, 16 bit) has a 74H52 on one of the memory control boards as the mux at one input to the ALU and a 74H54 with an expander (I forget which, and I don't feel like grabbign the schematics) on the processor data path PCB as the mux at the other ALU input. They do fail (the former especially!). -tony From allain at panix.com Mon Nov 15 23:17:15 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: DEC colours References: <158.43cd5d5d.2eca5f71@aol.com> <16793.7502.363129.427065@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <005001c4cb9b$89c3daa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > So what you really need is a copy of DEC Std 92. That would be the ultimate, wouldn't it? DEC's own color descriptions. If Curt.V can have all of Atari's corporate documents then maybe someday someoneon the list could find much of DEC's... Why I like RGB, chapter 3... All of electronic graphics is based on it. If it looks good on a TV, a computer monitor or anything from a Digicam, then it has been RGB digitized at some point. A digital camera just seems like a super convenient instantaneous color digitizer. You don't mix pigments from Red Green and Blue but the result of any pigment mix color can be communicated with RGB very well. John A. From nospam212-cctalk at yahoo.com Tue Nov 16 00:14:14 2004 From: nospam212-cctalk at yahoo.com (nospam212-cctalk@yahoo.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Sperry anyone? In-Reply-To: <1100527002.7156.77.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20041116061414.91470.qmail@web81009.mail.yahoo.com> Mine has the Sperry label as it was made before Sperry became Unisys. Later ones had the Unisys label. I have a 5000/50 I picked up from a company I worked for at the time that went out of business. It was an NCR Tower that Sperry/Unisys put their label on. We had a later model 5000/55 but a friend grabbed that one, little laster processor and other upgrades. They had a 5000/60 which was by a different company that I would have loved to have picked up but it required 220 power which I couldn't provide at the time and was too big for me to house back then as well. Today yes, 13 years ago no. A shame as it was a dual processor model. Still have manuals and install media for the 5000/50. Was thinking about putting it on my network at home again. Anyway, nice to see my 5000/50 is now worth $5-6. :) From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Nov 16 00:16:46 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200411160626.BAA26933@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > It takes about 5 minutes to test a PUS on dummy load. No longer. ...if you have Tony Duell's workshop and tools available. I, for example, have few suitable dummy loads at hand. I have a load resistor which came form an old Sun (4 ohms), though I'm not sure whether it's between 5V and ground or 12V and ground - it I suspect the latter, since it looks more like 36W than 6?W. (It could even be between 5V and 12V from what I can tell, though that would be Weird.) I actually do not even have a reliable voltmeter, much less the properly working oscilloscope I'd want to check things like ripple. Of course, I also generally work with machines that, while classic according to our definition, are not nearly as priceless as, say, a Norsk Data 10/S; they tend to be more like SPARCstation IPXen. (Thus, both less likely to have a fried PSU and less damage done if so.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From wmaddox at pacbell.net Tue Nov 16 05:41:54 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration effort on the way! In-Reply-To: <16792.64737.6893.451424@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <1100462448.3918.36.camel@fortran> <3.0.6.32.20041115112755.00969ad0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <16792.61806.503893.516196@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1100544789.3918.93.camel@fortran> <16792.64737.6893.451424@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <4199E782.4010807@pacbell.net> Paul Koning wrote: > Tore> But access to a complete array of spares if nessecary. Oh, and > Tore> the CPU is built in TTL logic, so no hard-to-get spares. > > TTL is getting hard to find, especially the more obscure types such as > 74S series. (And if the book says they want 74S, it's quite possible > no other variant will work...) > > paul I thought that 74F series parts were generally replacements for 74S parts. Is this incorrect? A more serious concern is that the parts that have been recently produced seem to be simpler glue logic, bus transceivers, etc. Many of the nice functional blocks used for building CPUs were dropped from manufacturers catalogs years ago, and many were never even offered in the more recent logic families. Take, for instance, the 74172, an 8x2 dual-ported register file used in the Data General Nova 2. --Bill From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Nov 16 07:44:00 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: 74act2155 chips Message-ID: <1100612640.8912.47.camel@weka.localdomain> Anyone know what a 74ACT2155 IC is? Memory of some sort, but is there anything special about them? I've managed to pull the NCR Tower into the middle of the garage and have pulled the covers off - I'll take the disks out later and see if they spin up first as the machine's somewhat useless if they don't! After that I'll reseat the boards, check the PSU etc. but I do remember the machine had developed some sort of fault when I parked it up years ago. ISTR it being *totally* dead, so there's likely a PSU problem. Anyway, there are quite a few of these 74ACT2155 chips on little modules on the system board; one of the modules is labelled as being cache so they're definitely memory of some flavour - I've just not come across these with a 74xxx part number before. NCR didn't half like their PAL chips. I counted over 40 on the system board alone. There's almost as many as there are typical logic ICs. cheers Jules From pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org Tue Nov 16 02:37:23 2004 From: pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Wives and computers References: <0411160301.AA11685@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <005d01c4cbb7$7fc58000$4601a8c0@retrobbs.org> I used to have a really small (closet sized) office / computer room. It got moved a bedroom sized room as soon as my wife needed to use the PC. So, get your wife to take some college courses, and you get more room! Mark "But Schindler is bueno! Senior Burns is El Diablo!" -------------------------------------------------------------- Website - http://www.retrobbs.org Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org BBS - http://bbs.retrobbs.org:8000 IRC - irc.retrobbs.org #main WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Sokolov" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 3:01 AM Subject: Re: Wives and computers > Jim Isbell, W5JAI wrote: > > > BUT...now she expects to have the system updated every two weeks. She > > used to be satisfied with my cast offs but now she wants the latest!! > > You mean she can't use an ASR33? Why not? Teach her how to use one! > > MS > From Pres at macro-inc.com Tue Nov 16 05:28:47 2004 From: Pres at macro-inc.com (Ed Kelleher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: <200411160626.BAA26933@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041116062427.034c1eb0@192.168.0.1> At 01:16 AM 11/16/2004, you wrote: >I, for example, have few suitable dummy loads at hand. I have a load >resistor which came form an old Sun (4 ohms), though I'm not sure >whether it's between 5V and ground or 12V and ground - it I suspect the >latter, since it looks more like 36W than 6?W. (It could even be >between 5V and 12V from what I can tell, though that would be Weird.) > >I actually do not even have a reliable voltmeter, much less the >properly working oscilloscope I'd want to check things like ripple. Old disk drives, if they'll at least spin up, make good dummy loads. The AC setting on a voltmeter will let you know if you have too much ripple on a DC supply. Ed K. From nico at farumdata.dk Tue Nov 16 07:59:43 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:41 2005 Subject: Wives and computers References: <0411160301.AA11685@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <005d01c4cbb7$7fc58000$4601a8c0@retrobbs.org> Message-ID: <006701c4cbe4$86695ad0$2101a8c0@finans> ---- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Firestone" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 9:37 AM Subject: Re: Wives and computers > I used to have a really small (closet sized) office / computer room. It got > moved a bedroom sized room as soon as my wife needed to use the PC. > Does that imply that your wife now sleeps in the closet sized office? Nico From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Nov 16 05:42:04 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: <200411160626.BAA26933@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200411160626.BAA26933@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <1100605324.8930.6.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-11-16 at 01:16 -0500, der Mouse wrote: > > It takes about 5 minutes to test a PUS on dummy load. No longer. > > ...if you have Tony Duell's workshop and tools available. > > I, for example, have few suitable dummy loads at hand. I have a load > resistor which came form an old Sun (4 ohms), though I'm not sure > whether it's between 5V and ground or 12V and ground - it I suspect the > latter, since it looks more like 36W than 6?W. (It could even be > between 5V and 12V from what I can tell, though that would be Weird.) I believe some PSU's need the load between 5V and ground, others between 12V and ground (or some other rail), depending on the design of the PSU. I tend to use an old scrap hard drive as a dummy load for PSU's with 5V and 12V rails (plus it gives an audible sound that something's happening :) cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Nov 16 05:46:59 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041115195820.03b48200@mail.30below.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041115112755.00969ad0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20041115195820.03b48200@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <1100605619.8930.11.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-11-15 at 20:00 -0500, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that Tony Duell may have mentioned these words: > > > > in modern computers that can cause just as much damage!!!!!!!! Just > > > >Name one other failure that will take out every chip in the machine. > > Stick o'Dynomite.[1] > Ahh, that requires outside help though and so doesn't count :) Unattended fire would probably do a nice job - PCBs burn pretty well when they get hot enough. I've only ever seen a real spontaneous fire in a monitor though, not in a system unit. It's probably possible if there's enough dust and something gets hot enough though. > Hi! I am a .signature virus. Copy me into your .signature to join in! Heh, I'm going to have to steal that one - I like it :) J. -- PERSON 1: That's an awful gash on your forehead! How did you get it? PERSON 2: I bit myself. PERSON 1: How the hell did you manage to bite yourself on the forehead? PERSON 2: I stood on a chair. From gordon at gjcp.net Tue Nov 16 04:56:01 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: DEC colours In-Reply-To: <41997A6E.40504@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3.0.6.32.20041115131632.0091b2a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <035c01c4cb45$5fea7780$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <200411152014.PAA14360@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <41997A6E.40504@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <4199DCC1.5070308@gjcp.net> Ben Franchuk wrote: > der Mouse wrote: > >> >> >> RGB isn't enough - not everyone's visual system's response can be >> modeled accurately by RGB. (Some people have colour receptors whose >> response peaks are at nonstandard frequencies; a few people even have >> more than three different colour receptors.) > > > Just what kind of people have more than 3 color receptors. Some people (all of them women) have four different colour receptors. There are two different kinds of "Red" cone, chosen genetically. Yours may be different from mine. We might well match two different Pantone cards against, say, a piece of cloth, or a switch on the panel of a large computer. Now, the gene that codes for which type of red receptor you have is in the X chromosome. One of the reasons why boys are many, many times more likely to be colour-blind than girls is that girls have two X chromosomes, so the "good copy" will be used. What happens then is a bit more interesting - the retina of the girl's eye will have colour-blind spots. You can find these by shining a very narrow coloured beam into the eye, and moving it about. Some bits of the retina won't let her see what colour the beam is, some will. It's exactly the same way that a black-and-white cat and a ginger cat will have tortoiseshell female kittens. So, if one parent has one kind of red cone, and the other parent has the other kind of red cone, then the resulting retina will be a patchwork of both types of cone. Women who have tetrachromatic vision can tell the difference between tiny gradations of colour, so small that most people cannot see it. Gordon JC Pearce. From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Nov 16 08:38:34 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: A 386 being given away Fw: collectioins Message-ID: <004f01c4cbe9$f4e17010$1f406b43@66067007> Please email Alexis directly if you want this item as I do not have any knowledge about it. Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: Alexis Skriloff To: jkeys@houstoncomputermuseum.org Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 11:51 PM Subject: collectioins hi, i have a 386 AMT, 40 mg hard drive, toshiba dot matrix printer, keyboard, nec multisync 3d monitor, and mouse. some floppies, software and manuals. are ;you interested and if not, do you know of anyone who might be interested? sincerely, alexis From bqt at Update.UU.SE Tue Nov 16 08:58:02 2004 From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: KM11 maintenance module In-Reply-To: <200411161500.iAGF0EOb044590@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200411161500.iAGF0EOb044590@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 "Charles H. Dickman" wrote: > Is there a schematic online for the DEC PDP-11 maintenance tool KM11? > Googling, the best I found was a description by Tony Duell for a > homebrew replacement. Excellent as that is, a schematic is just so much > easier to read. See if you can find the cpu manuals for an 11/70. There are some documentation on the KM11 in those, I seem to remember. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Nov 16 09:05:28 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: DEC colours References: <158.43cd5d5d.2eca5f71@aol.com> <16793.7502.363129.427065@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <005001c4cb9b$89c3daa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <16794.5944.426827.550360@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "John" == John Allain writes: John> Why I like RGB, chapter 3... All of electronic graphics is John> based on it. If it looks good on a TV, a computer monitor or John> anything from a Digicam, then it has been RGB digitized at some John> point. A digital camera just seems like a super convenient John> instantaneous color digitizer. You don't mix pigments from Red John> Green and Blue but the result of any pigment mix color can be John> communicated with RGB very well. No, it can't. There are colors that can be expressed in CMYK (four color "process" printing) that cannot be expressed in RGB. There are colors that can be made up in pigments that cannot be expressed in either. People who do this stuff for a living talk of "gamut" -- the range of colors that a particular system can describe. The RGB gamut and the CMYK gamut largely overlap, but each has a range outside that of the other. And there are other schemes (like Lab) that have yet a different gamut. For that matter, there are printer with more than four colors -- that is done to get a larger gamut. You can read about this stuff in the Adobe Photoshop manual, or in Electronic Publishing magazine, or in any decent textbook on color printing. If you want to do professional grade color, you have to go way beyond the narrow confines of thinking about color as simply RGB color. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Nov 16 09:23:27 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration effort on the way! References: <1100462448.3918.36.camel@fortran> <3.0.6.32.20041115112755.00969ad0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <16792.61806.503893.516196@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1100544789.3918.93.camel@fortran> <16792.64737.6893.451424@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4199E782.4010807@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <16794.7023.249088.721116@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "William" == William Maddox writes: William> Paul Koning wrote: Tore> But access to a complete array of spares if nessecary. Oh, and Tore> the CPU is built in TTL logic, so no hard-to-get spares. >> TTL is getting hard to find, especially the more obscure types >> such as 74S series. (And if the book says they want 74S, it's >> quite possible no other variant will work...) >> >> paul William> I thought that 74F series parts were generally replacements William> for 74S parts. Is this incorrect? It depends. Some designs depend on parts being "fast enough". Others are more finicky. If they need "fast enough" then F or LS or ACT series logic may well work. If they need "just right" then you have a potential problem. For example, some people have used 74S00 devices as crystal oscillators. Those circuits are less likely to appreciate substitution. paul From tomhudson at execpc.com Tue Nov 16 09:24:35 2004 From: tomhudson at execpc.com (Tom Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Old motherboards & Stuff, free to a good home In-Reply-To: <004f01c4cbe9$f4e17010$1f406b43@66067007> References: <004f01c4cbe9$f4e17010$1f406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <419A1BB3.1060108@execpc.com> While rummaging through my attic recently, I realized I have a lot of old PC motherboards, memory, etc. which have been removed from service due to upgrades and I'm never going to use them again. Nor will I be able to sell them, realistically. These include 486's, dual Pentium Pro/200 MB's, etc. I'm a graphics guy, so I always had some of the faster stuff available, and when faster MB's came out, I upgraded. AFAIK, most of these are in operational condition, with the exception of one of the dual PPros, which croaked. It's bound to have useful RAM, processors, etc. though. If anybody would like these, I'd be more than happy to give them away to a good home. Please contact me off-list if you want 'em. -Tom From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Nov 16 09:25:49 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration References: <5.2.0.9.2.20041116062427.034c1eb0@192.168.0.1> Message-ID: <16794.7165.325565.699884@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >> I, for example, have few suitable dummy loads at hand. I have a >> load resistor which came form an old Sun (4 ohms), though I'm not >> sure whether it's between 5V and ground or 12V and ground - it I >> suspect the latter, since it looks more like 36W than 6??W. (It >> could even be between 5V and 12V from what I can tell, though that >> would be Weird.) >> >> I actually do not even have a reliable voltmeter, much less the >> properly working oscilloscope I'd want to check things like >> ripple. Ed> Old disk drives, if they'll at least spin up, make good dummy Ed> loads. The AC setting on a voltmeter will let you know if you Ed> have too much ripple on a DC supply. Depends on the voltmeter... Actually, a resistor is a classic dummy load. They have the advantage of being dirt cheap, and readily available in thousands of variations. If Radio Shack doesn't hack it, Digikey certainly will. Ok, it's not so easy for Ethan... paul From Hans.Franke at siemens.com Tue Nov 16 09:35:20 2004 From: Hans.Franke at siemens.com (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: 10 year rule (was GOPHER) In-Reply-To: <20041026203116.97215.qmail@web52810.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041026130405.Q97268@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <419A2C48.424.49937784@localhost> Am 26 Oct 2004 13:31 meinte Computer Collector E-Mail New: > I know this has been discussed before, but here's my two cents... the 10-year > rule is (in my opinion) an obsolete metric. I really think we should be using > at least a 15-year or 20-year metric. Why? The 10 year rule is made as a moveing v(target) timeline to keep everything that is recent enough to be used in every day business OT. Changeing just the value, but not the principe is as stupid as some tax tax laws ... ridiculous numbers made up without sense. since, if we for example move it now to 15 years, the same problem occures in 5 years again. To, the only other principle would be to lock it down to a specific year, in this case maybe saying, everything up to 1989 is on topic. But then, whats with all the cool stuff afterwards wich is already outdated? Naa, I'd stay with the 10 years, since, as said before, it's not ment to define whats old and cool, but rather whats just to new to be on topic. > Otherwise, we'll soon be talking about Pentiums! Which is fine with me. I mean, prefix fiddling was back then still doable, yeah, the good old Pentium .... man, these where the times. Gruss H. P.S.: Given, a P1 is borderline, since it's best incarnation, a P200 is about the slowest that still can run XP with acceptable speed. -- VCF Europa 6.0 am 30.April und 01.Mai 2005 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Tue Nov 16 10:18:40 2004 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: HP 41C calculator Message-ID: <2D542F26-37EB-11D9-A45F-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> I picked up an HP 41C calculator at the VCF 7.0 earlier this month. It has damage from leaking batteries and is beyond my ability to repair it. Would anyone like to take a try? It has the following modules installed: Memory Module Financial 1 Math 1 Please let me know by private email if you are interested. I'm offering it for free and I will pay shipping. Heck, it weighs next to nothing and won't cost much to ship. If you want it, send me email. David Betz dbetz@xlisper.mv.com From Pres at macro-inc.com Tue Nov 16 10:15:26 2004 From: Pres at macro-inc.com (Ed Kelleher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: <16794.7165.325565.699884@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20041116062427.034c1eb0@192.168.0.1> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041116105937.03400cd8@192.168.0.1> At 10:25 AM 11/16/2004, you wrote: > Ed> Old disk drives, if they'll at least spin up, make good dummy > Ed> loads. The AC setting on a voltmeter will let you know if you > Ed> have too much ripple on a DC supply. > >Depends on the voltmeter... > >Actually, a resistor is a classic dummy load. They have the advantage >of being dirt cheap, and readily available in thousands of >variations. If Radio Shack doesn't hack it, Digikey certainly will. Yup! Well, for +12 and +5 you'll need two resistors though. Power rating? [time spent pondering] 12v 1A = 12w, 5v 1A = 5w should do it. Ooops, no 12 ohm or 5 ohm power resistors, got a bunch of 1 ohm ones, so I can series/parallel a bunch of them .... Screw it, they're not that much, maybe a couple of buck each. Then connectors (what's the Molex part number?), and wires and heat shrink and solder, maybe a perf board to hold them, or a minibox [project creep occurs, more features, more time, more money, CCTALK piles up] then shipping expense (and time) from Digikey, or gas and AGGREVATION going to RadioShack ["No, I already have a cell phone and Internet thanks, where are the components, way in the back?" then a wait at checkout as Granny gets a new hearing aid battery] Maybe $10-$20 bucks, Ooops, got to go back for the terminal lugs I forgot, or DigiKey was out of stock on. Vs. Pull old XT2190 or ST251 from junk box, plug in power supply lead, done. Cost = 0, time = 1 minute, satisfaction at not having to go through above nonsense = priceless! (plus giving more time to keep up with CCTALK email and for composing thoughtful email responses like this one! ). :-) I got an ATX power supply tester a few months back after a rash of bad ATX power supplies. Very handy. Thought one for AT type power supplies would be good too. Hey, just a few resistors for +12, +5 and some LEDS's, no sweat. STILL working on it, or rather it's still not been done. Got a box full of junk MFM drives, they work fine for this. PLUS! the inductive loads and relay kicks from old drives might be better than resistors anyway [thereby breathing more life into this thread]. Ed K. From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Nov 16 10:31:42 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Color spaces (was DEC Colours) In-Reply-To: <16794.5944.426827.550360@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <158.43cd5d5d.2eca5f71@aol.com> <16793.7502.363129.427065@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <005001c4cb9b$89c3daa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <16794.5944.426827.550360@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: A simple thing that I have used to help me out (in my work with cinema projection and video editing) is: RGB is a *transmissive* specification. It is used a lot where the light from the image is being *generated* by that image... like a CRT. It *makes* the light. CMYK is a *reflective* specification. It is used where light is bounced off a colored surface, like a magazine page. As was pointed out, mostly used in the printing and graphics arts. And there are of course many other flavors and types of specs - and we won't get into 'brightness' and all that entails... So if you're trying to match paint - a 'reflective' specification would be the most accurate, I would think. Cheers John From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Nov 16 10:40:34 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: 10 year rule (was GOPHER) In-Reply-To: <419A2C48.424.49937784@localhost> References: <20041026130405.Q97268@shell.lmi.net> <419A2C48.424.49937784@localhost> Message-ID: >Why? The 10 year rule is made as a moveing v(target) timeline to keep >everything that is recent enough to be used in every day business OT. I agree that the 10 year rule should be kept, but I can't help but find this comment humorous :^) And I'm not talking about a manufacturing or laboratory environment. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 16 10:41:42 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20041116105937.03400cd8@192.168.0.1> References: <16794.7165.325565.699884@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <5.2.0.9.2.20041116062427.034c1eb0@192.168.0.1> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041116114142.009c1c30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:15 AM 11/16/04 -0500, you wrote: >At 10:25 AM 11/16/2004, you wrote: >> Ed> Old disk drives, if they'll at least spin up, make good dummy >> Ed> loads. The AC setting on a voltmeter will let you know if you >> Ed> have too much ripple on a DC supply. >> >>Depends on the voltmeter... >> >>Actually, a resistor is a classic dummy load. They have the advantage >>of being dirt cheap, and readily available in thousands of >>variations. If Radio Shack doesn't hack it, Digikey certainly will. > >Yup! >Well, for +12 and +5 you'll need two resistors though. >Power rating? [time spent pondering] 12v 1A = 12w, 5v 1A = 5w should do it. OK I just picked up some computers with 150 Amp 5 volt supplies. Now figure out the necessary resistrance and wattage and go find me a resistor :-) Joe >Ooops, no 12 ohm or 5 ohm power resistors, got a bunch of 1 ohm ones, >so I can series/parallel a bunch of them .... >Screw it, they're not that much, maybe a couple of buck each. >Then connectors (what's the Molex part number?), and wires and heat shrink >and solder, >maybe a perf board to hold them, or a minibox > >[project creep occurs, more features, more time, more money, CCTALK piles up] > >then shipping expense (and time) from Digikey, or gas and AGGREVATION going >to RadioShack >["No, I already have a cell phone and Internet thanks, where are the >components, way in the back?" >then a wait at checkout as Granny gets a new hearing aid battery] > >Maybe $10-$20 bucks, >Ooops, got to go back for the terminal lugs I forgot, or DigiKey was out of >stock on. > >Vs. > >Pull old XT2190 or ST251 from junk box, >plug in power supply lead, done. > >Cost = 0, time = 1 minute, satisfaction at not having to go through above >nonsense = priceless! >(plus giving more time to keep up with CCTALK email and for composing >thoughtful email responses like this one! ). > >:-) > >I got an ATX power supply tester a few months back after a rash of bad ATX >power supplies. >Very handy. >Thought one for AT type power supplies would be good too. >Hey, just a few resistors for +12, +5 and some LEDS's, no sweat. >STILL working on it, or rather it's still not been done. > >Got a box full of junk MFM drives, they work fine for this. > >PLUS! the inductive loads and relay kicks from old drives might be better >than resistors anyway [thereby breathing more life into this thread]. > >Ed K. > > > From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Tue Nov 16 10:58:11 2004 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: HP 41C calculator In-Reply-To: <2D542F26-37EB-11D9-A45F-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> References: <2D542F26-37EB-11D9-A45F-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> Message-ID: The HP 41C is gone! It's amazing how many people wanted it even though it was broken. Thanks to everyone who expressed interest. David On Nov 16, 2004, at 11:18 AM, David Betz wrote: > I picked up an HP 41C calculator at the VCF 7.0 earlier this month. It > has damage from leaking batteries and is beyond my ability to repair > it. Would anyone like to take a try? It has the following modules > installed: > > Memory Module > Financial 1 > Math 1 > > Please let me know by private email if you are interested. I'm > offering it for free and I will pay shipping. Heck, it weighs next to > nothing and won't cost much to ship. If you want it, send me email. > > David Betz > dbetz@xlisper.mv.com > From news at computercollector.com Tue Nov 16 11:04:13 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: HP 41C calculator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041116170413.73351.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> Well, it's quite a neat machine. Some repair places are listed at http://www.hpmuseum.org (the right side of the page). --- David Betz wrote: > The HP 41C is gone! It's amazing how many people wanted it even though > it was broken. Thanks to everyone who expressed interest. > > David > > On Nov 16, 2004, at 11:18 AM, David Betz wrote: > > > I picked up an HP 41C calculator at the VCF 7.0 earlier this month. It > > has damage from leaking batteries and is beyond my ability to repair > > it. Would anyone like to take a try? It has the following modules > > installed: > > > > Memory Module > > Financial 1 > > Math 1 > > > > Please let me know by private email if you are interested. I'm > > offering it for free and I will pay shipping. Heck, it weighs next to > > nothing and won't cost much to ship. If you want it, send me email. > > > > David Betz > > dbetz@xlisper.mv.com > > > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit the museums directory and read about past events at our web site: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 585 readers and counting! From Hans.Franke at siemens.com Tue Nov 16 11:15:36 2004 From: Hans.Franke at siemens.com (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: OT: Fastest Pentium Pro? In-Reply-To: <200411030133.50332.gsutton9503@wavecable.com> Message-ID: <419A43C8.31969.49EF4355@localhost> Am 3 Nov 2004 2:33 meinte Scarletdown: > What was the fastest Pentium Pro CPU produced? On one site that a > Jeeves search turned up, there was mention of the Pro getting up to > 300MHz, yet another search result says that the fastest is 200MHz. > Plus, the HP Vectra XA that I am tinkering with uses a Pentium Pro CPU > (she currently has a 200), and according to the geeksheet for this > motherboard (http://www.embeddedlogic.com/TH99/m/E-H/35391.htm) this > board can take up to a 266. Well, the fastest I have is a PPro 200. AFAIR the PPro was available as 120, 133, 180 and 200 with a cache size of 256,512,1024 and 2048K. Planned Versions I know of where 240 and 266. I never heared of a 300. Fact is, that, to counter AMD, who was just out running their Pentiums, Intel did take the PPro design, added MMX, and formed the PII series to replace the desktop (Pentium) and server (PPro) CPUs. For their business users they offered PPro Overdrive CPUs up to like 333 MHz. Basicly PIIs in PPro pinout. It was the great time of 'overdrive' CPUs ... I very much liked at that time the AMD 486-133 that could be used in any ordinary 33 MHz Board and gave them another live (I still have two machines running on them - one even at 200 MHz - 50 MHz bus spead, a _real_ 486-50 :) Anyway, if you realy want to upgrade, finding one of the 2 MB cache versions might be the best solutions. An overdrive CPU may require a newer BIOS. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 6.0 am 30.April und 01.Mai 2005 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Nov 16 11:31:10 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: PSU capability of a Sun external SCSI case? Message-ID: <1100626270.8912.74.camel@weka.localdomain> I suppose someone here might know this! I've an external Sun case that accepts a single 5.25" SCSI device such as a CDROM or DAT drive (the case is open at the front). It's one of those two-colour plastic shelled ones, pale blue / cream, with 68 pin SCSI connectors on the back and a 50 pin connector internally + power cable. *nowhere* on it does it seem to say what capacity load it'll drive though. Most unhelpful. Anyone happen to know? It'd be a useful way of temporarily hooking up old 50 pin SCSI devices to my modern PC for backup purposes as it lives on top of my desk, but I rather suspect the PSU might go into meltdown if hooked up to a 5.25" FH drive (with the top of the Sun case removed of course :) ta! Jules From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Nov 16 11:34:46 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041116114142.009c1c30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <16794.7165.325565.699884@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <5.2.0.9.2.20041116062427.034c1eb0@192.168.0.1> <3.0.6.32.20041116114142.009c1c30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > OK I just picked up some computers with 150 Amp 5 volt supplies. Now > figure out the necessary resistrance and wattage and go find me a > resistor :-) Oh NO!! not (gasp!) OHM'S LAWWWW...... Lessee - 5 times 150 is, um... 14.2 carry the three decimal 05, differentiating and simplifying - square root of of the product modulo 3.14159265.... ummmm.... oh yeah! 750 watts, give or take a microjoule. Okay, now 750 watts (plus/minus a microjoule) at 5 volts DC potential is... [see procedure above, substituting dV/dT for all occurences of Zeta] ah, yes: 0.03333 ohms, but you could use a .1 1Kw unit and be fine. This is assuming you want to test the power supply at close to full load. If you just want to see if it puts out current, then a smaller resistor, say .5 ohm, 200 W would do, if you limited the duration of the test so as not to fry the load. Actually for loads like this, a bucket of salt water with a couple of heavy metal bars dunked it it, connected to the PS, would also work - using an ammeter, vary the distance between the bars until the PS is putting it's rated current into the load. Also makes a nice amount of hydrogen and other interesting gasses. Cheers John From tomj at wps.com Tue Nov 16 11:40:16 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: time machine... Message-ID: I'm in Assachusetts (Falmouth) visiting my ailing father, taking a break at the local cafe/bithole. How is it that we're related to our parents, anyways? Who are these people?!! I knew my brother Gregg had an old CP/M machine of mine, plus some other stuff, but I found out yesterday he has my ENTIRE CP/M HISTORY HARDWARE MANUALS DOCUMENTATION LISTINGS SOFTWARE SOURCE back to the middle 1970's, just sitting in his closet. Not even dusty! Every CP/M thing I've ever written, back to 1976, plus my Digital Research OEM 8" diskettes, manuals, sources to all the ROM debuggers, CPM BIOSes, things like details on making a 4FDC talk to Shugart 851's (plus my 801's and 851's) (solution: the data-separator add-on card for some Tandy Model x computer, a daughter board that fits under the 1771 chip) software I wrote for Alloy COmputing, about 50 S100 cards (all choice stuff; I worked for a bunch of system houses) plus !!linkable PDOS binaries, cp/m plink, plib, plus SID (the best debugger for cpm) PDOS docs, plus I not only didn't remember I did this, I anally documented everything and that's printed out, plus printed source listings (?) so even if every flop is bad I have records. UN-f'ing-believable. A few dozen brand-new 8" flops in those plastic flip boxes, all nice and loose in a warm house for 25 years. TVI terminal, my CMC Marketing S100 box (monstrous ferroresonant P.S.), a Comark dual flop box... 4-feet of manuals and docs OEM and hand-written. * TEI Inc was the name of the S100 box I was trying to recall for a year, not "Compupro". Nice boxes. * Comark is a company in Woburn MA I ported CP/M-80 for (to their Multibuss machine) then later -- bargain of bargains for them -- I did a full port of MSDOS 2.x or 3.x to their 8086 multibuss system, in exchange for one. THat machine was in the hands of Don Kulha, FidoNet #125 I think, recently deceased, Napa area, no idea what happened to it. Plus, this CP/M machine is the "original fido", that I named the BBS after, so named because it is a mongrel, eg. a dozen S100 cards, all different, including homemade EPROM card. The hardware and software documentation binder (!) has the name, EPROM monitor/boot ("bugger"). The Konan disk controller and the damned BASF-6172 8" hard drive (damn its miserable silicon soul to landfill). Oh yeah and I got a 32K Cromemco bytesaver card so I can read in (some few types of) old EPROMs for archival purposes. There are enough copies of bootable flops that I will clean the drives and simpyl boot it (after the usual old-hardware-bringup routine, though this thing was run 10 yrs ago allegedly). My TELINK program does XMODEM so I'll get a serial link up and transfer everything to my laptop. Plus I have some choice oldies, a very early (76?) copy of CBBS asm source, modem2.17, tdl/xitan FORTRAN4, Algol(!), somebody's pascal (forgot the acronym). Just going by floppy labels I can recall from yesterday. I'm taking one box of docs with me as checked baggage, the other stuff needs packing, which my brother has volunteered to do (my expense of course). Though I'm not very nostalgic (all my interest in old computing predates me) I have been bemoaning the fact I have utterly no recorded history of my work before 1994. I still have no examples of any my early 86DOS/MSDOS work, which was an interesting time, but maybe the 86DOS manuals are in the boxes, since I got most of this hardware when I worked at CSSN Inc (Boylston Ave, BOston) where I got the 86DOS manuals (and wrote an 86DOS BIOS with that one-pass 8086 absolute assembler of Tim Pattersen's). It's weird to come across so much stuff I have no recollection of. I remember a lot of it, but entire projects, and notebooks of writing, has my name on it and I recognize the style, but I don't recall it. It'll be some weeks before it's all shipped home, and while I swore I wouldn't do this before I had the other old thing up, this should be pretty easy to get up and running. From tomj at wps.com Tue Nov 16 12:14:28 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Sanyo Items Offered In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 14 Nov 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Joe Rigdon LOVES those Sany MBC550 computers! Send it to him...I'll be > he'll be glad to pay for shipping, maybe even throw in a few bucks on top. Now I thought *I* was crazy! :-) I found the 555's to be let's say quite unlovable. Their MSDOS BIOS output debug data (!) to the serial port (!) when there was disk activity. Which also turned off interrupts, so the clock sloooooowed down over time... it did have a FOSSIL driver though. From tomj at wps.com Tue Nov 16 12:16:13 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Sanyo Items Offered In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041115075344.009118d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041115075344.009118d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > BARF! I owned one when they were new. You couldn't pay me > to take one now! WHEW! Glad to hear you're not crazy as reported! :-) From tomj at wps.com Tue Nov 16 12:25:20 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This thread is turning into one of those ... * Sometimes you really need to, sometimes you don't. * Powered up 10 years ago means it's probably OK, if the thing was NEW 10 years ago; if it was old then it's ancient now. * That said, testing is "easy" on ferroresonant S100 chassis and hard on smart-ass switchers with fixed loads; you need OEM data to test. I think a good rule of thumb is, you need to know when to test, and when you might reasonably 'get away without it'. As always, knowledge, information and luck is required, and we all make judgement calls, right and wrong. From Hans.Franke at siemens.com Tue Nov 16 13:05:24 2004 From: Hans.Franke at siemens.com (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Euros (was: DEC Docs, Diagrams, and Diags. on Microfische In-Reply-To: <20041111124851.B38292@shell.lmi.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20041111115405.0096b650@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <419A5D84.23897.4A53C9E4@localhost> Am 11 Nov 2004 12:53 meinte Fred Cisin: > On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > > My daughter just returned from a year in france. IIRC she said that > > the EURO is worth about $2.40 US. > I sure hope that that is what she GOT for her Euros, > NOT what she paid for them! > I would sell my Euros for $1.50 each. > BofA currently lists the Euro at $1.36 The actual rate jups around 1.29 to 1.30 slowly going higher. For 2.40 it may take 2 more years under the shrub (which I very much apreciate, it's like a huge off on all things US :). At least that's what I did read in an article written by a US economy prof. > I don't think that it has EVER been much higher than that. Not realy, the Euro touched 1.30 at one point about a half a year ago (when that war started). I think in the old days, before the Euro, the Mark once had a rate to the USD that would be about 1.32. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 6.0 am 30.April und 01.Mai 2005 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From allain at panix.com Tue Nov 16 13:01:33 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: DEC colours References: <158.43cd5d5d.2eca5f71@aol.com><16793.7502.363129.427065@gargle.gargle.HOWL><005001c4cb9b$89c3daa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <16794.5944.426827.550360@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <00d401c4cc0e$b1495c80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > If you want to do professional grade color, you have to > go way beyond the narrow confines of thinking about color > as simply RGB color. Implied from what you say there are scanners that _detect_ and record by methods other than by RGB. I haven't yet seen any that do this, including many professional models. Your words "way" or "narrow" I'd like to say I don't yet follow, without starting a flame war. > The RGB gamut and the CMYK gamut largely overlap, So nobody's perfect but they can get along together. John A. From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Nov 16 14:15:25 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: DEC colours References: <158.43cd5d5d.2eca5f71@aol.com> <16793.7502.363129.427065@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <005001c4cb9b$89c3daa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <16794.5944.426827.550360@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <00d401c4cc0e$b1495c80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <16794.24541.406504.305806@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "John" == John Allain writes: >> If you want to do professional grade color, you have to go way >> beyond the narrow confines of thinking about color as simply RGB >> color. John> Implied from what you say there are scanners that _detect_ and John> record by methods other than by RGB. I haven't yet seen any John> that do this, including many professional models. Your words John> "way" or "narrow" I'd like to say I don't yet follow, without John> starting a flame war. Scanners use RGB -- which means that there are printed colors they won't deal with. I did not mean any insult by "narrow" -- only that there are many color models, not just RGB, and RGB is neither the best nor the most powerful model. >> The RGB gamut and the CMYK gamut largely overlap, John> So nobody's perfect but they can get along together. Only so long as you aren't doing work that requires accurate color in a subtractive color environment, such as printing. Otherwise you'll discover why Photoshop does CMYK, and why the manual chapter on that topic is so long and complex. paul From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 16 14:19:30 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: time machine... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041116151930.0099b480@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:40 AM 11/16/04 -0800, you wrote: >* Comark is a company in Woburn MA I ported CP/M-80 for (to their >Multibuss machine) then later -- bargain of bargains for them -- >I did a full port of MSDOS 2.x or 3.x to their 8086 multibuss >system, in exchange for one. THat machine was in the hands of >Don Kulha, FidoNet #125 I think, recently deceased, Napa area, >no idea what happened to it. Do you have any idea if this version of MS-DOS will work on the Intel Multibus machines? If it does, I'd love to get a copy. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 16 14:21:13 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Sanyo Items Offered In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041116152113.0099d7d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:14 AM 11/16/04 -0800, Tom Jennings wrote: >On Sun, 14 Nov 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >> Joe Rigdon LOVES those Sany MBC550 computers! Send it to him...I'll be >> he'll be glad to pay for shipping, maybe even throw in a few bucks on top. > >Now I thought *I* was crazy! :-) Tom, Sellam was being sarcastic. > >I found the 555's to be let's say quite unlovable. My opinion too. Joe From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Nov 16 14:10:20 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: DEC colours In-Reply-To: <005001c4cb9b$89c3daa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <158.43cd5d5d.2eca5f71@aol.com> <16793.7502.363129.427065@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <005001c4cb9b$89c3daa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041116140853.0371e6f0@pc> At 11:17 PM 11/15/2004, John Allain wrote: >Why I like RGB, chapter 3... All of electronic graphics is based on it. If >it looks good on a TV, a computer monitor or anything from a Digicam, >then it has been RGB digitized at some point. A digital camera just >seems like a super convenient instantaneous color digitizer. RGB color is far more complex than that. What about the monitor you're displaying it on? Consider the various phosphor blends and the implicit or customizable settings of color temperature in the monitor. RGB "White" isn't "white". And gamma? If you've installed Adobe products, you may have their gamma-tweaking tool inline in your display without realizing it. Some video cards have their own gamma- and color-tweaking tools, similarly adjusting your palette behind your (and your application's) back. And digital cameras? You've got to be kidding. They're not absolute devices by any means. Unless we're talking very high-end, they're all tweaking the color balance in odd ways and you probably aren't given any controls over it. Some begin to do wacky things when the scene doesn't include a wide range of colors. Reproducing a finish on metal or plastic must be even more complicated than anything computer-based. Your perception of the appearance of the finish is potentially dependent on all sorts of specular and multi-layer-reflective and transmissive colorings. - John From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 16 14:23:19 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Sanyo Items Offered In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20041115075344.009118d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041115075344.009118d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041116152319.00998ea0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:16 AM 11/16/04 -0800, you wrote: >On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> BARF! I owned one when they were new. You couldn't pay me >> to take one now! > >WHEW! Glad to hear you're not crazy as reported! :-) Not THAT crazy anyway. :-/ Joe > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 16 14:27:45 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Picture from 1954 Popular Mechanics Magazine Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041116152745.009914c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Take a look at this Joe From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Tue Nov 16 14:37:10 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Picture from 1954 Popular Mechanics Magazine In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041116152745.009914c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041116152745.009914c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1100637430.3918.128.camel@fortran> On Tue, 2004-11-16 at 15:27 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > Take a look at this *sigh* That is the most obvious fake I have ever seen. It made its rounds on IRC as a joke about two months ago. It is a fake, and a very bad one at that. The worst job is the paper coming down from the "teletype". But isn't the typewriter a horribly stretched DECWriter? And did they even have sprocket feed paper in 1954? Heck, FORTRAN didn't even exist in '54, did it? And, I mean, come on, a large ? -- Tore S Bekkedal From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Nov 16 14:38:33 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Picture from 1954 Popular Mechanics Magazine In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041116152745.009914c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041116152745.009914c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1100637513.8930.76.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-11-16 at 15:27 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > 201.jpg fantastic :-) From jplist at kiwigeek.com Tue Nov 16 14:41:28 2004 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Picture from 1954 Popular Mechanics Magazine In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041116152745.009914c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > Take a look at this http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/computer.asp JP From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Nov 16 14:44:54 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Picture from 1954 Popular Mechanics Magazine In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041116152745.009914c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041116152745.009914c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041116143735.0372dcf0@pc> At 02:27 PM 11/16/2004, you wrote: >Take a look at this Did you scan this? I suspect forgery. Most of those controls are analog. It looks more like the bridge of a ship. The printer / keyboard seems anachronistic. Is that a DECwriter? And why would the greenbar come out the front? Along with the TV, they look pasted-in. The text looks like it was rendered in Photoshop, not scanned. And FORTRAN might've been invented at IBM in 1954, was it actually well-known? - John From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Nov 16 14:54:41 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Picture from 1954 Popular Mechanics Magazine In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041116143735.0372dcf0@pc> References: <3.0.6.32.20041116152745.009914c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041116143735.0372dcf0@pc> Message-ID: <1100638481.8912.81.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-11-16 at 14:44 -0600, John Foust wrote: > are analog. It looks more like the bridge of a ship. I thought power station myself... apart from the 'steering wheel' which looks like it was pasted in separately :) From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Nov 16 14:57:02 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: DEC colours References: <158.43cd5d5d.2eca5f71@aol.com> <16793.7502.363129.427065@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <005001c4cb9b$89c3daa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <419A699E.9020107@jetnet.ab.ca> John Allain wrote: > Why I like RGB, chapter 3... All of electronic graphics is based on it. If > it looks good on a TV, a computer monitor or anything from a Digicam, > then it has been RGB digitized at some point. A digital camera just > seems like a super convenient instantaneous color digitizer. > You don't mix pigments from Red Green and Blue but the result of any > pigment mix color can be communicated with RGB very well. Not unless you remeber about GAMMA correction. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Nov 16 15:04:28 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration effort on the way! References: <1100462448.3918.36.camel@fortran> <3.0.6.32.20041115112755.00969ad0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <16792.61806.503893.516196@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1100544789.3918.93.camel@fortran> <16792.64737.6893.451424@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4199E782.4010807@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <419A6B5C.5050706@jetnet.ab.ca> William Maddox wrote: > I thought that 74F series parts were generally replacements for 74S > parts. Is this incorrect? A more serious concern is that the parts > that have been recently produced seem to be simpler glue logic, bus > transceivers, etc. Many of the nice functional blocks used for building > CPUs were dropped from manufacturers catalogs years ago, and many were > never even offered in the more recent logic families. Take, for > instance, the 74172, an 8x2 dual-ported register file used in the Data > General Nova 2. You can still GET that at http://www.unicornelectronics.com/ but just what is stock on hand is all that is left. They have some 74S and 74H too. Ben. From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Tue Nov 16 15:07:57 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Picture from 1954 Popular Mechanics Magazine In-Reply-To: <1100638481.8912.81.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <3.0.6.32.20041116152745.009914c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041116143735.0372dcf0@pc> <1100638481.8912.81.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1100639277.3918.141.camel@fortran> On Tue, 2004-11-16 at 20:54 +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Tue, 2004-11-16 at 14:44 -0600, John Foust wrote: > > are analog. It looks more like the bridge of a ship. > > I thought power station myself... apart from the 'steering wheel' which > looks like it was pasted in separately :) Completely coincidentally, I just stumbled across this page while idly surfing: http://www.columbia.edu/acis/history/610.html Same year-ish, same purpose, more sensible design! :) > > > -- Tore S Bekkedal From vcf at siconic.com Tue Nov 16 15:17:48 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Stump the Historians at the Computer History Museum this Friday Message-ID: Here's a fun event. Have you got a computer history question that's been burning for an answer? Come ask it this Friday to a panel of computer historians at the Computer History Museum. FRIDAY, November 19, 2004 Stump The Historians Board members of the IEEE's Annals of the History of Computing share how they view the history of computation and what they see for the future. Come loaded with your questions and try to stump the historians! Panelists include: David A. Grier Editor in Chief, IEEE Annals of the History of Computing Associate Professor, Computer Science and International Affairs Center for Science and Technology Policy George Washington University Nathan Ensmenger Professor of History and Sociology of Science University of Pennsylvania Michael S. Mahoney Professor of History, Program in History of Science Department of History Princeton University Raul Rojas Professor of Artificial Intelligence University of Berlin Dag Spicer Senior Curator Computer History Museum 6:00 PM Member Reception 7:00 PM Lecture LOCATION Computer History Museum 1401 N. Shoreline Boulevard Mountain View, CA http://www.computerhistory.org/events/directions/museum_map.html REGISTRATION Free. Suggested donation of $10.00 at the door from non-members. RSVP is required. For more information on the event, please visit the Museum's Web site at: http://www.computerhistory.org/historians_11192004 -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From melamy at earthlink.net Tue Nov 16 15:24:58 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Picture from 1954 Popular Mechanics Magazine In-Reply-To: <1100638481.8912.81.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <3.0.6.32.20041116152745.009914c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041116143735.0372dcf0@pc> <1100638481.8912.81.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041116162417.0446cd00@mail.earthlink.net> maybe the "kit" will be offered so we can build one too... At 03:54 PM 11/16/2004, Jules Richardson wrote: >On Tue, 2004-11-16 at 14:44 -0600, John Foust wrote: > > are analog. It looks more like the bridge of a ship. > >I thought power station myself... apart from the 'steering wheel' which >looks like it was pasted in separately :) From allain at panix.com Tue Nov 16 16:02:39 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Kildall mentioned References: <20041115191011.13730.qmail@web52810.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <05ff01c4cc27$fdbe1420$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > you might want to check it out two weeks from today. > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/theymadeamerica/ Note the Webpage pictures 4 inventors, and Kildall is one of them. Last night they revealed that the next episode is heavily about Watson's bet of IBM on the System 360 John A. From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Tue Nov 16 17:16:52 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: VAX 6600 UK Wales Message-ID: <003601c4cc32$5c85f310$5b01a8c0@flexpc> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1484&item=57313 27055&rd=1 This looks like a VAX 6000-610 in Wales (UK). No bids so far. There's a VAX 4000 of some sort available too. Surely worth the trip in a Luton van for someone with a bit of storage (or a decent basement)? Usual disclaimer applies: it's not me and it's noone I know (AFAIK!) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Nov 16 17:48:05 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: VAX 6600 UK Wales In-Reply-To: <003601c4cc32$5c85f310$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <200411170005.iAH05JOP048627@huey.classiccmp.org> This is Meltie's department, though whether he can get the means together to get to welshland is another thing entirely. I can't, plus I've got nowhere to put it :-\ The 4000 would be nice but I've already got a 4505a :) > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Antonio Carlini > Sent: 16 November 2004 23:17 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: VAX 6600 UK Wales > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1484& > item=57313 > 27055&rd=1 > > This looks like a VAX 6000-610 in Wales (UK). > No bids so far. There's a VAX 4000 of some sort available too. > > Surely worth the trip in a Luton van for someone with a bit > of storage (or a decent basement)? > > Usual disclaimer applies: it's not me and it's noone I know (AFAIK!) > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > > > > > > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Nov 16 18:21:11 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: VAX 6600 UK Wales In-Reply-To: <003601c4cc32$5c85f310$5b01a8c0@flexpc> References: <003601c4cc32$5c85f310$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <1100650871.8930.97.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-11-16 at 23:16 +0000, Antonio Carlini wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1484&item=57313 > 27055&rd=1 > > This looks like a VAX 6000-610 in Wales (UK). > No bids so far. There's a VAX 4000 of some sort > available too. Noted. Possible that the museum *may* be interested in it - we'll need a proper 3 phase supply for a few things at some point anyway, so that's not much of a big deal. I'm actually surprised it needs 3 phase actually; most things that sort of size don't. We need to head out to that corner of the country with a van at some point anyway... We don't have any big Vaxen a present, although there's an 11-750 in Somerset to be picked up which'd certainly hurt if dropped on yer foot :) Bit wary of the "I don't have the keys so it's not been opened but came out of a working site" thing. Quite possible it's been stripped of disks, memory etc. by persons unknown. The fact that the DLT drive is intact is promising though. cheers Jules From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 16 18:22:59 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:42 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: <1100605619.8930.11.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Nov 16, 4 11:46:59 am Message-ID: > I've only ever seen a real spontaneous fire in a monitor though, not in > a system unit. It's probably possible if there's enough dust and > something gets hot enough though. I've had an RK05, or more precisely the blower fan, catch fire. Being a good, solid, DEC device it carried on working with flames visible through the front window (!). I retraced the heads, shut the system down, and fortunately the flames went out. It turned out to be insulation breakdown in the fan motor windings. A friend of mine gave me anothe defective RK05 blowwer, this one with bad bearings, and using parts of each I got the drive running again. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 16 18:25:22 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: KM11 maintenance module In-Reply-To: from "Johnny Billquist" at Nov 16, 4 03:58:02 pm Message-ID: > See if you can find the cpu manuals for an 11/70. There are some > documentation on the KM11 in those, I seem to remember. The original KM11 (I was given a pair _after_ making my homebrew version..) consists of 2 boards -- IIRC W130 and W131. One contains the switches and lamps, the other the driver transistors, etc. The latter goes into the backplane slot and had an edge connector on the end to connec to the former. I think I got the schematics in the RK11-C printset, certainly it's either there or in the 11/45 prints. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 16 18:30:15 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041116114142.009c1c30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at Nov 16, 4 11:41:42 am Message-ID: > OK I just picked up some computers with 150 Amp 5 volt supplies. Now > figure out the necessary resistrance and wattage and go find me a > resistor :-) Now what I'd do there is very simple... 6V car headlamp bulbs tend to have 36W filaments, and double-dippers with 2 36W filaments are not uncommon. For short periods (like testing PSUs) you could run both filaments together. And light bulbs approximate to constant current devices, so I would guess they'd take 6A (each filament) from a 5V supply too. Or thereabouts. I'd normally test a PSU at around half its rated current, so around 75A. Each bulb (both filaments) takes 12A, so use half a dozen of them. And yes I do keep such bulbs in stock for testing such PSUs (my I2S image processors have such a PSU module for each crate...) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 16 18:40:21 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: HP 41C calculator In-Reply-To: from "David Betz" at Nov 16, 4 11:58:11 am Message-ID: > > The HP 41C is gone! It's amazing how many people wanted it even though > it was broken. Thanks to everyone who expressed interest. I am not suprised. Most HP41 faults are just bad connections (either between the logic board and the keyboard/display or between the I/O assembly and the keyboard/display) and can be fixed easily. Corroded I/O assemblies due to battery leakage are quite common too, but they can be repaired with care and a fine-tipped soldering iron. IC failures are uncommon, but I have had the odd one. Sorting out logic failures is hard because the connections are made when the case is screwed together which means it's almost impossible to run the machine with the logic PCB exposed. HP used a special 'test calculator' at the service centres for this -- it consisted of a normal HP41 with the back case cut in half (exposing the logic PCB end) and modified pillars/screws to hold the logic PCB in place. I've never seen an official one, but making a clone was an enjoyable afternoon's work. The HP41 is still a very useful calculator. The 41C is the simplest model with 64 'registers' (a 'register' is 7 bytes...) of user memory, partitionable between programs and data. You can put up to 4 memory modules in it, each adds another 64 registers, but doing that uses up all the I/O ports. There was also a quad memory module which adds 256 registers using just one port. And then there's the 41CV which has the full memory built-in The top model is the 41CX. It's a CV with extended functions (string handling, etc), extended memory (the ability to save programs and data in named files in another area of memory) and timer (clock, stopwatch) built in _and then some more functions on top of that, like a simple text editor. Add on ROM modules include things like maths, stats, circuit analysis, structural engineering, thermal science, financial, etc, etc, etc. And ssytem extensions like extended functions and timer. And 'hacking modules' (third party code, although AFAIK HP always made the physical modules) like ZenROM which let you edit the machine's memory directly. Serious hackers even made ROM emulators (using RAM rather than ROM) so they could program the 41 in machine code. And then there's the HPIL module with its extension ROMs (extended I/O, HPIL Development, always called DevIL :-)) which let you connect this little calculator to a disk drive, plotter, thinkjet printer, RS232 interface, HPIB interface, video display, data logger, etc, etc, etc. And dedicated peripherals like a magnetic card reader, thermal strip printer, barcode wand. What do I have? About a dozen machines, mostly CVs, but the odd CX and the odd C (including a very early C with all the original bugs!), a couple of dozen modules, most of the peripherals, the machine code development tools, and so on. It's a great machine, and still very actively used -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 16 18:16:49 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: <200411160626.BAA26933@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at Nov 16, 4 01:16:46 am Message-ID: > > > It takes about 5 minutes to test a PUS on dummy load. No longer. > > ...if you have Tony Duell's workshop and tools available. :-) > > I, for example, have few suitable dummy loads at hand. I have a load > resistor which came form an old Sun (4 ohms), though I'm not sure > whether it's between 5V and ground or 12V and ground - it I suspect the > latter, since it looks more like 36W than 6=BCW. (It could even be > between 5V and 12V from what I can tell, though that would be Weird.) I would be _very_ suprised if it was the last of those! > > I actually do not even have a reliable voltmeter, much less the > properly working oscilloscope I'd want to check things like ripple. However, I am not sure I'm happy with that. Most hobbies require you to have some equipment, and IMHO a basic toolkit, basic test gear (which would include a good multimeter and probably a 'scope), some special-purpose units, etc are essential for classic computing. Rmemebr that most computers run off 5V and maybe 12V. You don't need that many dummy loads!. An assortment of car bulbs (and holders if you don't want to solder wires driectly to the bulb caps) is a good start. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 16 18:19:20 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20041116062427.034c1eb0@192.168.0.1> from "Ed Kelleher" at Nov 16, 4 06:28:47 am Message-ID: > The AC setting on a voltmeter will let you know if you have too much ripp= > le=20 > on a DC supply. That depends very much on the voltmeter!. Most of the ones I have here simply use a rectifier on the AC ranges so that the meter responds to either the peak or the mean of the absolute value of the input signal, with a suitable scalling correciton so the actual reading is the RMS value assuming a sine wave input. They will quite happily indicate (and mis-read the value of, of course) a DC input when set to AC,. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 16 18:20:36 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: <4199E782.4010807@pacbell.net> from "William Maddox" at Nov 16, 4 03:41:54 am Message-ID: > > Paul Koning wrote: > > > Tore> But access to a complete array of spares if nessecary. Oh, and > > Tore> the CPU is built in TTL logic, so no hard-to-get spares. > > > > TTL is getting hard to find, especially the more obscure types such as > > 74S series. (And if the book says they want 74S, it's quite possible > > no other variant will work...) > > > > paul > > I thought that 74F series parts were generally replacements for 74S > parts. Is this incorrect? A more serious concern is that the parts 'Generally' is right. 9 times out of 10 you can use 74F in place of 74S (if the right function exists, which is by no means certain). The tenth time, the F part is too fast, or causes too much ground bounce, or ... -tony From lists at microvax.org Tue Nov 16 18:58:45 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie lists) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: VAX 6600 UK Wales Message-ID: > This is Meltie's department, though whether he can get the means > together to get to welshland is another thing entirely. I can't, plus > I've got nowhere to put it :-\ The 4000 would be nice but I've already > got a 4505a :) Thanks for thinking of me, but Snowdon computers (i've seen it already by a stroke of luck) get them in occasionally and I just can't afford the van at the moment :( Give me six months and i'll have given up on Uni and moved to Cheltenham/Bristol to work with a mate in VMS admin. Sod Uni... Job! Money! House! 3-Phase! alex/melt From williams.dan at gmail.com Tue Nov 16 19:42:42 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: VAX 6600 UK Wales In-Reply-To: <1100650871.8930.97.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <003601c4cc32$5c85f310$5b01a8c0@flexpc> <1100650871.8930.97.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <26c11a6404111617422b8a0ec1@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 00:21:11 +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Tue, 2004-11-16 at 23:16 +0000, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1484&item=57313 > > 27055&rd=1 > > > > This looks like a VAX 6000-610 in Wales (UK). > > No bids so far. There's a VAX 4000 of some sort > > available too. > > Noted. Possible that the museum *may* be interested in it - we'll need a > proper 3 phase supply for a few things at some point anyway, so that's > not much of a big deal. I'm actually surprised it needs 3 phase > actually; most things that sort of size don't. > > We need to head out to that corner of the country with a van at some > point anyway... > > We don't have any big Vaxen a present, although there's an 11-750 in > Somerset to be picked up which'd certainly hurt if dropped on yer > foot :) > > Bit wary of the "I don't have the keys so it's not been opened but came > out of a working site" thing. Quite possible it's been stripped of > disks, memory etc. by persons unknown. The fact that the DLT drive is > intact is promising though. > > cheers > > Jules > > It's only the fans in the 6000 that need rewiring. I don't know if's a major job but it can be done. I am going to bid on the 705,as I have a spare expansion pack for it. It will also sit nicely next to the 500. I am dubious about the description as well, although it says it has been upgraded the model number given is a 300. I will annoyed if turns out to be correct. He says it's not been opened but he has a pciture of it open at the bottom. It only has one disk in it. anyway. Anyone know how well a 500 and a 705 would cluster, or would it slow down the 705. Dan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 16 19:37:00 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: VAX 6600 UK Wales In-Reply-To: <1100650871.8930.97.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <003601c4cc32$5c85f310$5b01a8c0@flexpc> <003601c4cc32$5c85f310$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041116203700.0090cd10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:21 AM 11/17/04 +0000, you wrote: >On Tue, 2004-11-16 at 23:16 +0000, Antonio Carlini wrote: >> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1484&item=57313 >> 27055&rd=1 >> >> This looks like a VAX 6000-610 in Wales (UK). >> No bids so far. There's a VAX 4000 of some sort >> available too. > >Noted. Possible that the museum *may* be interested in it - we'll need a >proper 3 phase supply for a few things at some point anyway, so that's >not much of a big deal. I'm actually surprised it needs 3 phase >actually; most things that sort of size don't. It may not NEED 3 phase. It probably has several PSUs and they may be wired to different phases or you may be able to connect them all together on one phase (but the current requirement will go up). That's the way my friend's BIG SGI was connected. We rewired it for single phase and it works just fine except that it now rated at 90 Amps input or nearly as much as a house! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 16 19:57:52 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20041116114142.009c1c30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041116205752.0090cd10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Ok for the ones of you that didn't get it I was being sarcastic. That's why the smiley at the end of the message. I just wondered what the reaction to trying to find a .0333 Ohm 750 Watt resistor would be. FWIW I once made such a resistor out of paralleled incandescent heaters when I was in a small town in Virginia that didn't have anything other than a small town hardware store. IIRC it took about ten or eleven heaters in parallel to get a low enough resistance. Incandesent bulbs are a good idea but you have to be careful. Their resistance isn't linear and varies widely depending on the voltage. That makes them dammed difficult to use accurately. The same applies to the heaters that I used but luckly I had a GOOD ampmeter and voltmeter. Joe At 12:30 AM 11/17/04 +0000, you wrote: >> OK I just picked up some computers with 150 Amp 5 volt supplies. Now >> figure out the necessary resistrance and wattage and go find me a >> resistor :-) > >Now what I'd do there is very simple... > >6V car headlamp bulbs tend to have 36W filaments, and double-dippers with >2 36W filaments are not uncommon. For short periods (like testing PSUs) >you could run both filaments together. And light bulbs approximate to >constant current devices, so I would guess they'd take 6A (each filament) >from a 5V supply too. Or thereabouts. > >I'd normally test a PSU at around half its rated current, so around 75A. >Each bulb (both filaments) takes 12A, so use half a dozen of them. And >yes I do keep such bulbs in stock for testing such PSUs (my I2S image >processors have such a PSU module for each crate...) > >-tony > From dave04a at dunfield.com Tue Nov 16 20:34:37 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: Ken Iverson, creator of APL dies. Message-ID: <20041117023437.MUPI14765.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> http://www.itbusiness.ca/index.asp?theaction=61&sid=57357 Using IBM APL on the University of New Brunswicks System 370 was what got me "hooked" on interactive computing, and it has been a favorite of mine ever since. Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Tue Nov 16 20:37:32 2004 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: HP 41C calculator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for all of the 41C info. I'd like to pick up a working CX someday but they go for over $200 on eBay. I guess I'll have to stick with my more modern HP calculators for now. On Nov 16, 2004, at 7:40 PM, Tony Duell wrote: >> >> The HP 41C is gone! It's amazing how many people wanted it even though >> it was broken. Thanks to everyone who expressed interest. > > I am not suprised. Most HP41 faults are just bad connections (either > between the logic board and the keyboard/display or between the I/O > assembly and the keyboard/display) and can be fixed easily. > > Corroded I/O assemblies due to battery leakage are quite common too, > but > they can be repaired with care and a fine-tipped soldering iron. > > IC failures are uncommon, but I have had the odd one. Sorting out logic > failures is hard because the connections are made when the case is > screwed together which means it's almost impossible to run the machine > with the logic PCB exposed. HP used a special 'test calculator' at the > service centres for this -- it consisted of a normal HP41 with the back > case cut in half (exposing the logic PCB end) and modified > pillars/screws > to hold the logic PCB in place. I've never seen an official one, but > making a clone was an enjoyable afternoon's work. > > The HP41 is still a very useful calculator. The 41C is the simplest > model > with 64 'registers' (a 'register' is 7 bytes...) of user memory, > partitionable between programs and data. You can put up to 4 memory > modules in it, each adds another 64 registers, but doing that uses up > all > the I/O ports. There was also a quad memory module which adds 256 > registers using just one port. And then there's the 41CV which has the > full memory built-in > > The top model is the 41CX. It's a CV with extended functions (string > handling, etc), extended memory (the ability to save programs and data > in > named files in another area of memory) and timer (clock, stopwatch) > built > in _and then some more functions on top of that, like a simple text > editor. > > Add on ROM modules include things like maths, stats, circuit analysis, > structural engineering, thermal science, financial, etc, etc, etc. And > ssytem extensions like extended functions and timer. And 'hacking > modules' (third party code, although AFAIK HP always made the physical > modules) like ZenROM which let you edit the machine's memory directly. > Serious hackers even made ROM emulators (using RAM rather than ROM) so > they could program the 41 in machine code. > > And then there's the HPIL module with its extension ROMs (extended I/O, > HPIL Development, always called DevIL :-)) which let you connect this > little calculator to a disk drive, plotter, thinkjet printer, RS232 > interface, HPIB interface, video display, data logger, etc, etc, etc. > > And dedicated peripherals like a magnetic card reader, thermal strip > printer, barcode wand. > > What do I have? About a dozen machines, mostly CVs, but the odd CX and > the odd C (including a very early C with all the original bugs!), a > couple of dozen modules, most of the peripherals, the machine code > development tools, and so on. > > It's a great machine, and still very actively used > > -tony > From peterbrown10 at hotmail.com Tue Nov 16 20:45:31 2004 From: peterbrown10 at hotmail.com (Peter Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: HP 2113B service manual / schematics Message-ID: Hi All, Excitement in the lab last night! - I left the 2113B running on the bench whilst I went to make a cup of tea (yep, British) only to return to a room full of smoke. Turned out that the 240 volt rated 0.22u surpressor capacitor (mounted across the live and neutral pins on the mains socket) had decided to give up the ghost. No real damage done - just a bit stinky and a bit of smoke damage. The machine had run just fine for about two hours before the cap decided to break. This has happened to me before on another piece of ageing electronics - it is probably worth checking all old electronics for this type of surpressor capacitor and replacing them BEFORE turning the equipment on. Hope that this is of help to someone. Peter Brown From peterbrown10 at hotmail.com Tue Nov 16 20:46:12 2004 From: peterbrown10 at hotmail.com (Peter Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: HP 2113B service manual / schematics Message-ID: Hi Bob and Jay, Thanks for replying to my post. I now have a pile of schematics to try to understand! Bob: Thanks for the info on the -2 volt rail - I'm not going to be running any 2116 hardware so I guess I should be OK. I'm still intrigued as to why my rail should be out of spec (the service manual is pretty precise about the rail limits). If any one has access to the schematic for the standard power supply for the 2113B (i.e. without the battery back up option) then I'd be very interested in getting hold of a copy. Cheers Peter Brown From allain at panix.com Tue Nov 16 21:58:01 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: Bill Joy References: <003601c4cc32$5c85f310$5b01a8c0@flexpc><1100650871.8930.97.camel@weka.localdomain> <26c11a6404111617422b8a0ec1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003601c4cc59$a2881740$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> On Charlie Rose tonight. 0 notice I realize. Plus he's all Doctor of Philosophy - not Computer Science nowadays but I still like him. John A. From richard.beaudry at gmail.com Tue Nov 16 23:00:57 2004 From: richard.beaudry at gmail.com (Richard Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: DEC VAX Stuff Available in MA ... Part #2 Message-ID: Hello all, OK ... So far all of the responses to part #1 have been "I look forward to part #2", or "I'll take what's left"... Therefore, I'll keep it all available, in case someone wants the entire kit. If not, then I'll sort out what's left and let the vultures get it :-) Please note that I am NOT willing to ship anything in this list. Too big, too heavy, too much trouble. Please do not ask me to ship it... You can pick it up in Westminster, MA 01473. Here's the deal: - A case the size/weight of a typical desktop PC, labeled on the front "VAX 4000-100", and on the back "MicroVAX 3100". Nice and clean, nothing in the 5.25" external bays, and only one hard drive in the internal bays, RF31T-EA (Google says 381MB DSSI). Has what looks like a standard set of ports on the back (I found one similar to this on a Google search, and it had all the same ports: printer, DSSI, Q-Bus, SCSI, Ethernet, Console, Printer). NOT powered on, untested, working pull. - DEC TS05 Tape drive, with two cables. HEAVY! Untested, working pull - MTI StingRay DS and StingRay Disk Array. The DS unit looks to be the controller, and the Disk Array has 7 1GB drives. DS unit weighs about 40lbs., and the Disk Array is at least double that (about the size of a FULL 486 PC Tower case). Untested, working pull - R400X expansion unit. Again, some Googling reveals it is a BA440 cabinet, with 4 drives (DSSI I believe). Also has a M7493-PA card, and H7874-00 power supply. Untested, working pull - B400X expansion unit. Another BA440, NO hard drives, but does have a TK70 tape drive. Has the same H7874-00 power supply. Cards are: M9060-YA load module, M7530-PA TS05 controller, M9047-00 grant card, M7559-00 TK70 controller, M9405-PA QBus Expansion card. Untested, working pull. I'll take emails for a couple of days OFF-LIST please. I'd like to get this out of the house (or, rather, my wife would :-) ), so priority will be given to those who can come sooner rather than later..... I'll try to answer any questions, but I am a DEC neophyte... Thanks, Rich B. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Nov 16 23:22:43 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: Color spaces (was DEC Colours) In-Reply-To: References: <158.43cd5d5d.2eca5f71@aol.com> <16793.7502.363129.427065@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <005001c4cb9b$89c3daa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <16794.5944.426827.550360@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200411170535.AAA07341@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > So if you're trying to match paint - a 'reflective' specification > would be the most accurate, I would think. But not one as simple as CMYK. Quite aside from the ways our eyes respond to light, in order to truly match a given colour, you do need to match its reflectance spectrum at least moderately well, otherwise the goodness of your match will depend on the spectrum of the light you look at it under. (Just because two lights look the same to your eyes does not mean they have even approximately the same spectra! It just means that their spectra dot-producted with your eyes' colour receptors' sensitivity spectra come out fairly close to the same. Or whatever the term corresponding to integral[x](A(x)*B(x)), the continuous analog of a dot product, is; I can't remember offhand.) And then there are issues of specularity and translucency and such. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From aek at spies.com Tue Nov 16 23:49:06 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: Terak 8510 pcb pics Message-ID: <20041117054906.6E6FE450B@spies.com> In case anyone is curious what the qbus pcbs look like inside of a Terak 8510 www.bitsavers.org/pdf/terak/PCBs From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Nov 17 00:16:05 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200411170621.BAA07792@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> I actually do not even have a reliable voltmeter, much less the >> properly working oscilloscope I'd want to check things like ripple. > However, I am not sure I'm happy with that. I know I'm not happy with it. Just not - so far - quite unhappy enough to make me pry the money loose to get good-quality gadgets. After all, as I pointed out a message or two ago, so far my computers have been obtained free and are of types available in relatively plenty, so it's semi-hard to justify getting expensive gadgetry (and anything is expensive compared to free) just to guard against accidentally frying one. And most of mine have been turned on recently enough when I get them that the risk is even lower than it is for most of you. (Yeah, call me a dilettante when it comes to classic computing - I won't even disagree with you, much less argue with you. Most of my stuff, while on-topic, is not the sort of really interesting stuff that I see written about here....) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Wed Nov 17 00:54:17 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: VAX 6600 UK Wales In-Reply-To: <26c11a6404111617422b8a0ec1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005e01c4cc72$432d3230$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > I am dubious about the description as well, although it says it has > been upgraded the model number given is a 300. I will annoyed if turns > out to be correct. He says it's not been opened but he has a pciture > of it open at the bottom. It only has one disk in it. anyway. I guess they just do not know - otherwise they would be expecting something nearere to real money for it! If you read the description one way, it's a VAX 4000-300 that was upgraded to a VAX 4000-705A. Easily done by swapping processor + memory IFF the original -300 had a late enough backplane (I'll dig out the relevant serial numbers if it matters). The nice thing about having a late enough backplane is that you can run anything from a -300 right up to a -705A in one box by swapping memory+processor. While you are in their building, don't forget that the same is true of a VAX 6000-610 :-) > Anyone know how well a 500 and a 705 would cluster, or would it slow > down the 705. They would cluster quite well. If you hook them up over DSSI and have an R400X to put some disks into, then the two VAX 4000s can each be powered off with the other not noticing (assuming you configure it properly with a quorum disk). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From richard.beaudry at gmail.com Wed Nov 17 06:36:13 2004 From: richard.beaudry at gmail.com (Richard Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: DEC VAX Stuff Available in MA ... Part #2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Two things I forgot to mention: 1) ALL of this stuff is FREE for pickup ... 2) I also have a bunch of cables. Not sure if it is all cables necessary to make this system functional, but it is a lot of cables, and I will include them in the deal as well.... Thanks! Rich B. From Ladyelec at aol.com Wed Nov 17 08:08:03 2004 From: Ladyelec at aol.com (Ladyelec@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: 10 year rule Message-ID: Why not make it : 10 years: Vintage 20 years: classic 25 years: antique or something similar to that? Isa From brad at heeltoe.com Wed Nov 17 09:34:13 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: Message from ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) of "Wed, 17 Nov 2004 00:30:15 GMT." Message-ID: <200411171534.iAHFYD92030172@mwave.heeltoe.com> Tony Duell wrote: > >6V car headlamp bulbs tend to have 36W filaments, and double-dippers with ... >I'd normally test a PSU at around half its rated current, so around 75A. >Each bulb (both filaments) takes 12A, so use half a dozen of them. And huh. I use them to limit current when charging new motorcycle batteries but i never concidered using them to load a supply. thats a *really* good idea... thanks! (and it has the added advantage of an analog output :-) -brad From vcf at siconic.com Wed Nov 17 10:10:43 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: Sanyo Items Offered In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041116152113.0099d7d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > At 10:14 AM 11/16/04 -0800, Tom Jennings wrote: > >On Sun, 14 Nov 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > >> Joe Rigdon LOVES those Sany MBC550 computers! Send it to him...I'll be > >> he'll be glad to pay for shipping, maybe even throw in a few bucks on top. > > > >Now I thought *I* was crazy! :-) > > Tom, Sellam was being sarcastic. I was just trying to re-unite you with an old friend, Joe ;) You gotta admit they had a pretty interesting hardware organization. Why they decided to hack an Apple ][ graphics scheme into a PC architecture still strikes me as seriously funcky. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Nov 17 10:13:18 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: Picture from 1954 Popular Mechanics Magazine In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041116152745.009914c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > Take a look at this Gee, I didn't realize people in 1954 thought homes of the future would be ocean-going vessels. I.E. what the hell is the steering wheel for? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Nov 17 10:15:37 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: Picture from 1954 Popular Mechanics Magazine In-Reply-To: <1100637430.3918.128.camel@fortran> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Nov 2004, Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > That is the most obvious fake I have ever seen. It made its rounds on > IRC as a joke about two months ago. > > It is a fake, and a very bad one at that. The worst job is the paper > coming down from the "teletype". Wow, you're right. I got totally duped. I looked at the photo for all but 2 seconds :( > But isn't the typewriter a horribly stretched DECWriter? And did they > even have sprocket feed paper in 1954? > > Heck, FORTRAN didn't even exist in '54, did it? Well, it was begun in 1954. > And, I mean, come on, a large ? Nice touch. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From news at computercollector.com Wed Nov 17 10:17:11 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041117161711.84587.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> The terms are too similar, people will just get more confused. All I intended to do when I started this discussion topic was to point out the obsurdity of considering things like the Web and Pentiums as "vintage" (or any other synonym). But then others observed back that I was being short-sighted -- if you ignore that actual age, "vintage" just means "anything considered obsolete by the mainstream," and that's a good enough answer for me. But I do think that 15 years, not 10, is a better divider between what's just "old" and what's truly vintage. --- Ladyelec@aol.com wrote: > Why not make it : > 10 years: Vintage > 20 years: classic > 25 years: antique > or something similar to that? > Isa > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit the museums directory and read about past events at our web site: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 585 readers and counting! From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Wed Nov 17 10:18:00 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: Picture from 1954 Popular Mechanics Magazine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1100708280.3918.145.camel@fortran> On Wed, 2004-11-17 at 08:15 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Well, it was begun in 1954. Hmm, you're right. > > > And, I mean, come on, a large ? > Nice touch. Heh, now I want one for my desktop :) Controlling the volume or something? :) -- Tore S Bekkedal From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Nov 17 10:25:48 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: Picture from 1954 Popular Mechanics Magazine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A previous post gave the actual photo (from the Rand Corp) - this is the secondary steerage station from a submarine, installed in the engine room.. the 'steering' wheels are for steering and up/down, if I read the caption properly. And it's not a very good fake, either - as the piece of greenbar hanging out of the Decwriter appears to be either going into, or coming out of, the case near the keyboard... not the paper slot which is, of course, underneath the machine. And we've all seen enough pictures of 1950s computers - how many of them had that many power meters and pressure guages on 'em...? Cheers John From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 17 09:58:03 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: HP 41C calculator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041117105803.00911a00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:37 PM 11/16/04 -0500, you wrote: >Thanks for all of the 41C info. I'd like to pick up a working CX >someday but they go for over $200 on eBay. I guess I'll have to stick >with my more modern HP calculators for now. There's a reason that used HP-41s bring over $200. The modern HP calculators bite! Once you get used to a 41 you'll stick to it. Joe > >On Nov 16, 2004, at 7:40 PM, Tony Duell wrote: > >>> >>> The HP 41C is gone! It's amazing how many people wanted it even though >>> it was broken. Thanks to everyone who expressed interest. >> >> I am not suprised. Most HP41 faults are just bad connections (either >> between the logic board and the keyboard/display or between the I/O >> assembly and the keyboard/display) and can be fixed easily. >> >> Corroded I/O assemblies due to battery leakage are quite common too, >> but >> they can be repaired with care and a fine-tipped soldering iron. >> >> IC failures are uncommon, but I have had the odd one. Sorting out logic >> failures is hard because the connections are made when the case is >> screwed together which means it's almost impossible to run the machine >> with the logic PCB exposed. HP used a special 'test calculator' at the >> service centres for this -- it consisted of a normal HP41 with the back >> case cut in half (exposing the logic PCB end) and modified >> pillars/screws >> to hold the logic PCB in place. I've never seen an official one, but >> making a clone was an enjoyable afternoon's work. >> >> The HP41 is still a very useful calculator. The 41C is the simplest >> model >> with 64 'registers' (a 'register' is 7 bytes...) of user memory, >> partitionable between programs and data. You can put up to 4 memory >> modules in it, each adds another 64 registers, but doing that uses up >> all >> the I/O ports. There was also a quad memory module which adds 256 >> registers using just one port. And then there's the 41CV which has the >> full memory built-in >> >> The top model is the 41CX. It's a CV with extended functions (string >> handling, etc), extended memory (the ability to save programs and data >> in >> named files in another area of memory) and timer (clock, stopwatch) >> built >> in _and then some more functions on top of that, like a simple text >> editor. >> >> Add on ROM modules include things like maths, stats, circuit analysis, >> structural engineering, thermal science, financial, etc, etc, etc. And >> ssytem extensions like extended functions and timer. And 'hacking >> modules' (third party code, although AFAIK HP always made the physical >> modules) like ZenROM which let you edit the machine's memory directly. >> Serious hackers even made ROM emulators (using RAM rather than ROM) so >> they could program the 41 in machine code. >> >> And then there's the HPIL module with its extension ROMs (extended I/O, >> HPIL Development, always called DevIL :-)) which let you connect this >> little calculator to a disk drive, plotter, thinkjet printer, RS232 >> interface, HPIB interface, video display, data logger, etc, etc, etc. >> >> And dedicated peripherals like a magnetic card reader, thermal strip >> printer, barcode wand. >> >> What do I have? About a dozen machines, mostly CVs, but the odd CX and >> the odd C (including a very early C with all the original bugs!), a >> couple of dozen modules, most of the peripherals, the machine code >> development tools, and so on. >> >> It's a great machine, and still very actively used >> >> -tony >> > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 17 09:56:00 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: Ken Iverson, creator of APL dies. In-Reply-To: <20041117023437.MUPI14765.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041117105600.00911460@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> "Iverson passed away on Oct. 19 following a stroke while he was working on his computer. He was 83. " He must have been using a Windows PC! He should have stuck with APL. APL was my first computer language as well. I learned it form Iverson's book A Programming Language and finally got to try it out on an IBM 1130. I'll go for YEARs and not use APL and finally getting rid of all my APL books and stuff but I always find myself coming back to APL. Joe At 09:34 PM 11/16/04 -0500, you wrote: > >http://www.itbusiness.ca/index.asp?theaction=61&sid=57357 > >Using IBM APL on the University of New Brunswicks System 370 >was what got me "hooked" on interactive computing, and it has >been a favorite of mine ever since. > >Dave >-- >dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Vintage computing equipment collector. > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 17 10:05:47 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: HP 2113B service manual / schematics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041117110547.007937c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Peter, IIRC that's the same cap that failed in one of my HP 2117s a year ago. Same symptom, it ran fine for hours then suddenly failed. One of the things that I moticed was that the computer kept running and even though I turned off the power switch the cap kept sizzling. I had to unplug the line cord to stop it. I also had exactly the same thing happen an another 2117 last Sunday but I haven't taken the PSU apart to see what failed in it yet. Also had one of those small surpressor caps fail in my BBC Micro last year. Again with the same scenrio. They don't seem to hold up well. Joe At 02:45 AM 11/17/04 +0000, you wrote: >Hi All, > >Excitement in the lab last night! - I left the 2113B running on the bench >whilst I went to make a cup of tea (yep, British) only to return to a room >full of smoke. > >Turned out that the 240 volt rated 0.22u surpressor capacitor (mounted >across the live and neutral pins on the mains socket) had decided to give up >the ghost. No real damage done - just a bit stinky and a bit of smoke >damage. > >The machine had run just fine for about two hours before the cap decided to >break. This has happened to me before on another piece of ageing >electronics - it is probably worth checking all old electronics for this >type of surpressor capacitor and replacing them BEFORE turning the equipment >on. > >Hope that this is of help to someone. > >Peter Brown > > > From Hans.Franke at siemens.com Wed Nov 17 10:53:56 2004 From: Hans.Franke at siemens.com (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: <20041117161711.84587.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <419B9034.22117.4F01CACB@localhost> Am 17 Nov 2004 8:17 meinte Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter: > --- Ladyelec@aol.com wrote: > > Why not make it : > > 10 years: Vintage > > 20 years: classic > > 25 years: antique > > or something similar to that? > > Isa > The terms are too similar, people will just get more confused. Agreed. > All I intended to do when I started this discussion topic was to point out the > obsurdity of considering things like the Web and Pentiums as "vintage" (or any > other synonym). But then others observed back that I was being short-sighted > -- if you ignore that actual age, "vintage" just means "anything considered > obsolete by the mainstream," and that's a good enough answer for me. But I do > think that 15 years, not 10, is a better divider between what's just "old" and > what's truly vintage. Well, the important part was to get the off the actual stuff. Everything else is hard to do just by years. Shure, a 1994 PC might be about where you still may use it, and more important, might not look interesting at all from a colectors view. On the other hand, especialy you may agree that almost any kind 0f 94ish PDA is vintage from todays view. Isn't it? In fact, for VCFe the same 10 year limit is enfoced (exempts need very good reasoning). Everythin below is NADA, everything above up to everyones own judgement. So, I'm expecting PCs to show up soon. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 6.0 am 30.April und 01.Mai 2005 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Wed Nov 17 11:02:21 2004 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: HP 41C calculator In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041117105803.00911a00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041117105803.00911a00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <71FE2642-38BA-11D9-A45F-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> Hmmm... Maybe I should have kept the 41C after all. Oh well, maybe I'll find a working one some day... What makes it so much better than say an HP 48GX or even an HP 42S? On Nov 17, 2004, at 10:58 AM, Joe R. wrote: > At 09:37 PM 11/16/04 -0500, you wrote: >> Thanks for all of the 41C info. I'd like to pick up a working CX >> someday but they go for over $200 on eBay. I guess I'll have to stick >> with my more modern HP calculators for now. > > There's a reason that used HP-41s bring over $200. The modern HP > calculators bite! Once you get used to a 41 you'll stick to it. > > Joe > > >> >> On Nov 16, 2004, at 7:40 PM, Tony Duell wrote: >> >>>> >>>> The HP 41C is gone! It's amazing how many people wanted it even >>>> though >>>> it was broken. Thanks to everyone who expressed interest. >>> >>> I am not suprised. Most HP41 faults are just bad connections (either >>> between the logic board and the keyboard/display or between the I/O >>> assembly and the keyboard/display) and can be fixed easily. >>> >>> Corroded I/O assemblies due to battery leakage are quite common too, >>> but >>> they can be repaired with care and a fine-tipped soldering iron. >>> >>> IC failures are uncommon, but I have had the odd one. Sorting out >>> logic >>> failures is hard because the connections are made when the case is >>> screwed together which means it's almost impossible to run the >>> machine >>> with the logic PCB exposed. HP used a special 'test calculator' at >>> the >>> service centres for this -- it consisted of a normal HP41 with the >>> back >>> case cut in half (exposing the logic PCB end) and modified >>> pillars/screws >>> to hold the logic PCB in place. I've never seen an official one, but >>> making a clone was an enjoyable afternoon's work. >>> >>> The HP41 is still a very useful calculator. The 41C is the simplest >>> model >>> with 64 'registers' (a 'register' is 7 bytes...) of user memory, >>> partitionable between programs and data. You can put up to 4 memory >>> modules in it, each adds another 64 registers, but doing that uses up >>> all >>> the I/O ports. There was also a quad memory module which adds 256 >>> registers using just one port. And then there's the 41CV which has >>> the >>> full memory built-in >>> >>> The top model is the 41CX. It's a CV with extended functions (string >>> handling, etc), extended memory (the ability to save programs and >>> data >>> in >>> named files in another area of memory) and timer (clock, stopwatch) >>> built >>> in _and then some more functions on top of that, like a simple text >>> editor. >>> >>> Add on ROM modules include things like maths, stats, circuit >>> analysis, >>> structural engineering, thermal science, financial, etc, etc, etc. >>> And >>> ssytem extensions like extended functions and timer. And 'hacking >>> modules' (third party code, although AFAIK HP always made the >>> physical >>> modules) like ZenROM which let you edit the machine's memory >>> directly. >>> Serious hackers even made ROM emulators (using RAM rather than ROM) >>> so >>> they could program the 41 in machine code. >>> >>> And then there's the HPIL module with its extension ROMs (extended >>> I/O, >>> HPIL Development, always called DevIL :-)) which let you connect this >>> little calculator to a disk drive, plotter, thinkjet printer, RS232 >>> interface, HPIB interface, video display, data logger, etc, etc, etc. >>> >>> And dedicated peripherals like a magnetic card reader, thermal strip >>> printer, barcode wand. >>> >>> What do I have? About a dozen machines, mostly CVs, but the odd CX >>> and >>> the odd C (including a very early C with all the original bugs!), a >>> couple of dozen modules, most of the peripherals, the machine code >>> development tools, and so on. >>> >>> It's a great machine, and still very actively used >>> >>> -tony >>> >> >> > From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Nov 17 11:04:35 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration References: <3.0.6.32.20041116114142.009c1c30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041116205752.0090cd10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <16795.33955.978969.909798@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Joe" == Joe R writes: Joe> Ok for the ones of you that didn't get it I was being Joe> sarcastic. That's why the smiley at the end of the message. I Joe> just wondered what the reaction to trying to find a .0333 Ohm Joe> 750 Watt resistor would be. A nice way to make high power resistors is to take low power resistors and dunk them in water. For example, a pair of 1 watt 100 ohm resistors in parallel, in water, makes an excellent 100 watt dummy load for ham radio applications. If you run it for a long stretch you get steam, but the resistors stay healthy. For a 33 milliohm resistor, I might consider a suitable length of ordinary 20 gauge home electric wire, insulated, in water. That wire is rated for 20 amps in conduit, probably closer to 30 in open air, so 750 watts in water wouldn't be an unreasonable thing to do. paul From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 17 11:18:37 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: HP 41C calculator In-Reply-To: <71FE2642-38BA-11D9-A45F-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041117105803.00911a00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041117105803.00911a00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041117121837.007f7b50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:02 PM 11/17/04 -0500, you wrote: >Hmmm... Maybe I should have kept the 41C after all. Oh well, maybe I'll >find a working one some day... > >What makes it so much better than say an HP 48GX or even an HP 42S? RPN, the ability to add modules (or interfaces!). The huge range of SW avaiable for it. All the peripherals available for it. The good solid look and feel, the quality of the construction and more. A 42S had similar SW but no ports (therefore no expandability, off-line storage or perpherals) and just try to find a 42S! Joe > >On Nov 17, 2004, at 10:58 AM, Joe R. wrote: > >> At 09:37 PM 11/16/04 -0500, you wrote: >>> Thanks for all of the 41C info. I'd like to pick up a working CX >>> someday but they go for over $200 on eBay. I guess I'll have to stick >>> with my more modern HP calculators for now. >> >> There's a reason that used HP-41s bring over $200. The modern HP >> calculators bite! Once you get used to a 41 you'll stick to it. >> >> Joe >> >> >>> >>> On Nov 16, 2004, at 7:40 PM, Tony Duell wrote: >>> >>>>> >>>>> The HP 41C is gone! It's amazing how many people wanted it even >>>>> though >>>>> it was broken. Thanks to everyone who expressed interest. >>>> >>>> I am not suprised. Most HP41 faults are just bad connections (either >>>> between the logic board and the keyboard/display or between the I/O >>>> assembly and the keyboard/display) and can be fixed easily. >>>> >>>> Corroded I/O assemblies due to battery leakage are quite common too, >>>> but >>>> they can be repaired with care and a fine-tipped soldering iron. >>>> >>>> IC failures are uncommon, but I have had the odd one. Sorting out >>>> logic >>>> failures is hard because the connections are made when the case is >>>> screwed together which means it's almost impossible to run the >>>> machine >>>> with the logic PCB exposed. HP used a special 'test calculator' at >>>> the >>>> service centres for this -- it consisted of a normal HP41 with the >>>> back >>>> case cut in half (exposing the logic PCB end) and modified >>>> pillars/screws >>>> to hold the logic PCB in place. I've never seen an official one, but >>>> making a clone was an enjoyable afternoon's work. >>>> >>>> The HP41 is still a very useful calculator. The 41C is the simplest >>>> model >>>> with 64 'registers' (a 'register' is 7 bytes...) of user memory, >>>> partitionable between programs and data. You can put up to 4 memory >>>> modules in it, each adds another 64 registers, but doing that uses up >>>> all >>>> the I/O ports. There was also a quad memory module which adds 256 >>>> registers using just one port. And then there's the 41CV which has >>>> the >>>> full memory built-in >>>> >>>> The top model is the 41CX. It's a CV with extended functions (string >>>> handling, etc), extended memory (the ability to save programs and >>>> data >>>> in >>>> named files in another area of memory) and timer (clock, stopwatch) >>>> built >>>> in _and then some more functions on top of that, like a simple text >>>> editor. >>>> >>>> Add on ROM modules include things like maths, stats, circuit >>>> analysis, >>>> structural engineering, thermal science, financial, etc, etc, etc. >>>> And >>>> ssytem extensions like extended functions and timer. And 'hacking >>>> modules' (third party code, although AFAIK HP always made the >>>> physical >>>> modules) like ZenROM which let you edit the machine's memory >>>> directly. >>>> Serious hackers even made ROM emulators (using RAM rather than ROM) >>>> so >>>> they could program the 41 in machine code. >>>> >>>> And then there's the HPIL module with its extension ROMs (extended >>>> I/O, >>>> HPIL Development, always called DevIL :-)) which let you connect this >>>> little calculator to a disk drive, plotter, thinkjet printer, RS232 >>>> interface, HPIB interface, video display, data logger, etc, etc, etc. >>>> >>>> And dedicated peripherals like a magnetic card reader, thermal strip >>>> printer, barcode wand. >>>> >>>> What do I have? About a dozen machines, mostly CVs, but the odd CX >>>> and >>>> the odd C (including a very early C with all the original bugs!), a >>>> couple of dozen modules, most of the peripherals, the machine code >>>> development tools, and so on. >>>> >>>> It's a great machine, and still very actively used >>>> >>>> -tony >>>> >>> >>> >> > > From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Nov 17 11:20:17 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: <20041117161711.84587.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041117114311.03a0c670@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter may have mentioned these words: >The terms are too similar, people will just get more confused. > >All I intended to do when I started this discussion topic was to point out the >obsurdity of considering things like the Web and Pentiums as "vintage" (or any >other synonym). But then others observed back that I was being short-sighted >-- if you ignore that actual age, "vintage" just means "anything considered >obsolete by the mainstream," and that's a good enough answer for me. But I do >think that 15 years, not 10, is a better divider between what's just "old" and >what's truly vintage. Wham. Wham. Wham. Yet another dead horse being beaten once again... Ungh. Yet again, I will mention that depending on *how* strict you feel we should police that number, my beloved CoCo3 will once again become offtopic. If memory serves, it was manufactured through 1990 and was sold until late 1992. So, you want to change the "deadline" (as does someone at least once per year -- check the archives!) -- will there be exceptions? If so, what will they be? Will it be "anything newer but still used an 8-bit processor"? That would still leave out a lot of neat Amiga hardware that just got ontopic. Will it be "introduction date?" There are MS-DOS versions introduced over 15 years ago that still run on brand-new equipment. Will that make it all ontopic? Will it be an arbitrary "kewlness factor" which can (of course) never be quantified? If it's the latest that you're considering, what's the point of even *having* a number? For some reason, someone always feels that the way it is now is "horribly broken" and that by changing a number will magically "unbreak" it. Unforch, what you may consider "fixed" may be "horribly broken" to someone else. There is no solution for this perceived "problem," and most say there is no problem to solve. Regards, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers _??_ zmerch@30below.com (?||?) If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead _)(_ disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From news at computercollector.com Wed Nov 17 11:23:25 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: <419B9034.22117.4F01CACB@localhost> Message-ID: <20041117172325.12844.qmail@web52802.mail.yahoo.com> >>>>> On the other hand, especialy you may agree that almost any kind of 94ish PDA is vintage from todays view. Isn't it? Yes, as no one (who is sane) uses a Newton or HP200LX for day-to-day business. LOL, that kind of comment nearly got me attacked at the "10th anniversary of the Newton" celebration at MIT last year. For safety I avoid the HP200 mailing list entirely. :) --- Hans Franke wrote: > Am 17 Nov 2004 8:17 meinte Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter: > > --- Ladyelec@aol.com wrote: > > > Why not make it : > > > 10 years: Vintage > > > 20 years: classic > > > 25 years: antique > > > or something similar to that? > > > Isa > > > The terms are too similar, people will just get more confused. > > Agreed. > > > All I intended to do when I started this discussion topic was to point out > the > > obsurdity of considering things like the Web and Pentiums as "vintage" (or > any > > other synonym). But then others observed back that I was being > short-sighted > > -- if you ignore that actual age, "vintage" just means "anything considered > > obsolete by the mainstream," and that's a good enough answer for me. But I > do > > think that 15 years, not 10, is a better divider between what's just "old" > and > > what's truly vintage. > > Well, the important part was to get the off the actual stuff. > Everything else is hard to do just by years. Shure, a 1994 PC > might be about where you still may use it, and more important, > might not look interesting at all from a colectors view. On > the other hand, especialy you may agree that almost any kind > 0f 94ish PDA is vintage from todays view. Isn't it? > > In fact, for VCFe the same 10 year limit is enfoced (exempts > need very good reasoning). Everythin below is NADA, everything > above up to everyones own judgement. So, I'm expecting PCs to > show up soon. > > Gruss > H. > -- > VCF Europa 6.0 am 30.April und 01.Mai 2005 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit the museums directory and read about past events at our web site: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 585 readers and counting! From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Wed Nov 17 11:29:51 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: <20041117172325.12844.qmail@web52802.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041117172325.12844.qmail@web52802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1100712591.3918.148.camel@fortran> On Wed, 2004-11-17 at 09:23 -0800, Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter wrote: > Yes, as no one (who is sane) uses a Newton or HP200LX for day-to-day business. Actually, the 200LX was a kickass handheld. I'd give the world for one. -- Tore S Bekkedal From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Nov 17 11:31:42 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: <20041117161711.84587.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041117161711.84587.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <419B8AFE.70902@mdrconsult.com> Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter wrote: > The terms are too similar, people will just get more confused. > > All I intended to do when I started this discussion topic was to point out the > obsurdity of considering things like the Web and Pentiums as "vintage" (or any > other synonym). But then others observed back that I was being short-sighted > -- if you ignore that actual age, "vintage" just means "anything considered > obsolete by the mainstream," and that's a good enough answer for me. But I do > think that 15 years, not 10, is a better divider between what's just "old" and > what's truly vintage. I think you're all looking at this completely backwards. The rate of electronic evolution (OK, change) has *accelerated* over time, meaning that computers are obsoleted much more quickly than their older counterparts. Therefore the age limit for this list should be *lowered* to about 8 years now. Sometime in about 12 years a computer that's two weeks old will qualify as a classic. I'll be grabbing my hat.... Doc From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Nov 17 11:34:31 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: Ken Iverson, creator of APL dies. References: <20041117023437.MUPI14765.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> <3.0.6.32.20041117105600.00911460@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <16795.35751.284842.96619@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Joe" == Joe R writes: Joe> "Iverson passed away on Oct. 19 following a stroke while he was Joe> working on his computer. He was 83. " He must have been using a Joe> Windows PC! He should have stuck with APL. Joe> APL was my first computer language as well. I learned it form Joe> Iverson's book A Programming Language and finally got to try it Joe> out on an IBM 1130. I'll go for YEARs and not use APL and Joe> finally getting rid of all my APL books and stuff but I always Joe> find myself coming back to APL. There's a pretty good APL implementation that runs on Linux and Solaris, among others, called OpenAPL. It includes a tweaked xterm that handles the APL characters directly. (I have an xemacs elisp file for apl-mode to go with that...) paul From news at computercollector.com Wed Nov 17 11:37:35 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: 200LX -- was: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: <1100712591.3918.148.camel@fortran> Message-ID: <20041117173735.20951.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> >>>> Actually, the 200LX was a kickass handheld. Well yes, but the keyword is "was"... --- Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > On Wed, 2004-11-17 at 09:23 -0800, Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter > wrote: > > Yes, as no one (who is sane) uses a Newton or HP200LX for day-to-day > business. > Actually, the 200LX was a kickass handheld. I'd give the world for one. > -- > Tore S Bekkedal > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit the museums directory and read about past events at our web site: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 585 readers and counting! From vcf at siconic.com Wed Nov 17 12:01:21 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:43 2005 Subject: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: <1100712591.3918.148.camel@fortran> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > Actually, the 200LX was a kickass handheld. I'd give the world for one. Really? Can you start gift-wrapping it for me? A nice big red bow would be sweet as well. I'll get the 200LX in the mail soon. Do I also get all the people with the world? If so, can I discard the ones I don't like? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Nov 17 12:03:17 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:44 2005 Subject: 200LX -- was: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: <20041117173735.20951.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter wrote: > >>>> Actually, the 200LX was a kickass handheld. > > Well yes, but the keyword is "was"... Evan, Evan, Evan. You know better than to be making silly comments like this. There are many people who still use their 200LX daily for many quite useful purposes. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From lcourtney at mvista.com Wed Nov 17 12:08:54 2004 From: lcourtney at mvista.com (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:44 2005 Subject: Ken Iverson, creator of APL dies. In-Reply-To: <16795.35751.284842.96619@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Tuesday, November 30, 2004 at 6PM there will be an event celebrating the life and accomplishments of Ken Iverson at the Computer History Museum. Details at: http://www.computerhistory.org/events/index.php?id=1099685637 Regards, Lee Courtney From news at computercollector.com Wed Nov 17 12:18:51 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:44 2005 Subject: 200LX -- was: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041117181851.40219.qmail@web52810.mail.yahoo.com> ...Just as plenty of people still use their 286, and that's a GOOD thing, if it meets their needs. Heck, I still play my Atari 2600 a couple of times a week, as the games meet MY needs. But as much as I live for vintage PDAs, my "daily driver" is a modern PocketPC. Obviously I want to advocate our hobby, or I wouldn't put so much time and effort into the newsletter. I think it's terrific that some people actually do use vintage systems for modern purposes, in fact, I wish more of those people would come forward so I can write about them. However one thing I never pretend is that vintage systems are actually "better" than today's. - Evan (happily using his XP machine and Yahoo email) --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter wrote: > > > >>>> Actually, the 200LX was a kickass handheld. > > > > Well yes, but the keyword is "was"... > > Evan, Evan, Evan. > > You know better than to be making silly comments like this. There are > many people who still use their 200LX daily for many quite useful > purposes. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers > ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org > ] > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit the museums directory and read about past events at our web site: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 585 readers and counting! From peterbrown10 at hotmail.com Wed Nov 17 12:35:09 2004 From: peterbrown10 at hotmail.com (Peter Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:44 2005 Subject: HP 2113B service manual / schematics Message-ID: Hi Joe, >One of the things that I noticed was that the computer kept running and >even though I turned >off the power switch the cap kept sizzling. On the 2113 (and I guess from your description the 2117) the capacitor is directly across the terminals on the mains input socket - i.e. on the 'always hot' side of the on/off switch. So turning the power off behind the front panel of the computer won't help. In order to effectively control interference the capacitor has to be mounted as close to the point at which mains enters the equipment enclosure as possible. Mounting it further away causes the input leads to act like an antenna inside the enclosure. >I had to unplug the line cord to stop it. Yep, this is the only way to shut the power off to this capacitor, it is always live when the equipment is plugged into a live mains socket. A good reason NOT to leave this sort of equipment plugged in but turned off! Peter Brown From vcf at siconic.com Wed Nov 17 13:25:00 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:44 2005 Subject: 200LX -- was: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: <20041117181851.40219.qmail@web52810.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter wrote: > Obviously I want to advocate our hobby, or I wouldn't put so much time and > effort into the newsletter. I think it's terrific that some people actually do > use vintage systems for modern purposes, in fact, I wish more of those people > would come forward so I can write about them. However one thing I never > pretend is that vintage systems are actually "better" than today's. You don't have to pretend. In some cases they are. This also transcends technology. I prefer to write my to-do lists and notes on a pad of lined paper. It doesn't require batteries and it doesn't break when I drop it. Unfortunately, I still manage to lose it from time to time (I just finally found it again last night :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From news at computercollector.com Wed Nov 17 14:28:25 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:44 2005 Subject: 200LX -- was: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041117202825.55027.qmail@web52807.mail.yahoo.com> Yeah but the pen and paper are still modern technology (as they're both still in mass production and reasonable to use for the purpose at hand, in this case, organizing)... DOS clamshells are not (LOL, but again that's with the "but I love them anyway" qualifier). Evan (happily admiring his Atari Portfolio and HP95) --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter wrote: > > > Obviously I want to advocate our hobby, or I wouldn't put so much time and > > effort into the newsletter. I think it's terrific that some people > actually do > > use vintage systems for modern purposes, in fact, I wish more of those > people > > would come forward so I can write about them. However one thing I never > > pretend is that vintage systems are actually "better" than today's. > > You don't have to pretend. In some cases they are. > > This also transcends technology. I prefer to write my to-do lists and > notes on a pad of lined paper. It doesn't require batteries and it > doesn't break when I drop it. Unfortunately, I still manage to lose it > from time to time (I just finally found it again last night :) > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers > ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org > ] > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit the museums directory and read about past events at our web site: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 585 readers and counting! From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Nov 17 15:00:35 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:44 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration References: Message-ID: <419BBBF3.4070609@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: >>>It takes about 5 minutes to test a PUS on dummy load. No longer. >> >>...if you have Tony Duell's workshop and tools available. > > > :-) > > >>I, for example, have few suitable dummy loads at hand. I have a load >>resistor which came form an old Sun (4 ohms), though I'm no > Rmemebr that most computers run off 5V and maybe 12V. You don't need that > many dummy loads!. An assortment of car bulbs (and holders if you don't > want to solder wires driectly to the bulb caps) is a good start. That is only true about TTL and computers that used a Z80 or later designed chips. > -tony > > . > From pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org Wed Nov 17 15:16:58 2004 From: pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:44 2005 Subject: Wives and computers References: <0411160301.AA11685@ivan.Harhan.ORG><005d01c4cbb7$7fc58000$4601a8c0@retrobbs.org> <006701c4cbe4$86695ad0$2101a8c0@finans> Message-ID: <004801c4ccea$c6e50d50$4601a8c0@retrobbs.org> Well, no, but sometimes, I'd like to arange for her to sleep on the roof. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nico de Jong" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 1:59 PM Subject: Re: Wives and computers > Does that imply that your wife now sleeps in the closet sized office? > Nico > "But Schindler is bueno! Senior Burns is El Diablo!" -------------------------------------------------------------- Website - http://www.retrobbs.org Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org BBS - http://bbs.retrobbs.org:8000 IRC - irc.retrobbs.org #main WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki From gordon at gjcp.net Wed Nov 17 15:49:56 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:44 2005 Subject: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: <419B8AFE.70902@mdrconsult.com> References: <20041117161711.84587.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> <419B8AFE.70902@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <419BC784.5020207@gjcp.net> Doc Shipley wrote: > Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter wrote: > >> The terms are too similar, people will just get more confused. >> >> All I intended to do when I started this discussion topic was to point >> out the >> obsurdity of considering things like the Web and Pentiums as "vintage" >> (or any >> other synonym). But then others observed back that I was being >> short-sighted >> -- if you ignore that actual age, "vintage" just means "anything >> considered >> obsolete by the mainstream," and that's a good enough answer for me. >> But I do >> think that 15 years, not 10, is a better divider between what's just >> "old" and >> what's truly vintage. > > > I think you're all looking at this completely backwards. > > The rate of electronic evolution (OK, change) has *accelerated* over > time, meaning that computers are obsoleted much more quickly than their > older counterparts. Therefore the age limit for this list should be > *lowered* to about 8 years now. I would not quite describe my IBM Workpad Z50 as a classic, but it certainly is unusual. OK, it is basically just a big WinCE PDA (or is it a very small MIPS laptop?), but they are interesting, and not exactly a common commodity. I wonder if my old Compaq P60 would be classified as a classic yet? Again, not that old, and "beige box", but very cool and unusual in that it had built-in SCSI, and a keyboard with a mike and speaker built in. Lots of other little wierd things like that too... Gordon. From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Nov 17 16:04:59 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:44 2005 Subject: Picture from 1954 Popular Mechanics Magazine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I.E. what the hell is the steering wheel for? The kitchen in Woody Allen's Sleeper has a steering wheel. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Nov 17 16:17:16 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:44 2005 Subject: Picture from 1954 Popular Mechanics Magazine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041117141543.H84349@shell.lmi.net> > I.E. what the hell is the steering wheel for? Pong It's wired to a 16 (14?) pin DIP plug for Apple ][ or to a DA15 for PC. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From bert at brothom.nl Wed Nov 17 16:34:02 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:44 2005 Subject: DL11-W (M7856) schematics Message-ID: <1250.195.64.88.124.1100730842.squirrel@office.brothom.nl> Hi all, Can anyone here point me to the DL11-W (M7856) schematics? I have a hardcopy here, but I seem to miss pieces. Thanks! Bert From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Wed Nov 17 16:47:00 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:44 2005 Subject: DL11-W (M7856) schematics In-Reply-To: <1250.195.64.88.124.1100730842.squirrel@office.brothom.nl> Message-ID: <003e01c4ccf7$5a9ddca0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > Can anyone here point me to the DL11-W (M7856) schematics? > I have a hardcopy here, but I seem to miss pieces. I think Manx can find two, possibly the same though: http://vt100.net/manx and type DL11 into the search box. -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 17 17:07:22 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:44 2005 Subject: HP 41C calculator In-Reply-To: <71FE2642-38BA-11D9-A45F-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> from "David Betz" at Nov 17, 4 12:02:21 pm Message-ID: > > Hmmm... Maybe I should have kept the 41C after all. Oh well, maybe I'll > find a working one some day... You will.. They're not particularly rare (heck, if I can find them...) > > What makes it so much better than say an HP 48GX or even an HP 42S? A lot!. Firstly the build quality is a lot better (the quality of HP calculators really went down when they came out with the clamshell models (18C, 28C, etc) and has kept on going down. Secondly they're very different machines. The HP48 series are good _calculators_. Everything you want is most likely built-in. And that's why I use my 48SX, 48GX and 49G for calculations... The 42S is, IMHO, a sick joke. It's a 41 with all the good stuff taken out. No expansion, no I/O apart from the IR printer output. No extended functions, none of the interesting stuff from the HP41 modules. OK, the Advantage ROM is sort-of there, but that's the 41 module I use the least. And you can't do synthetic programming on it [1]. The 41 is what I call a system calculator. On its own it's a nice machine, but it's not got that much. But you can add stuff to it. I've had my 41 talk to a disk drive, plotter, thinkjet printer, HPIB interface to a logic analyser and a data logger all at the same time. Try that with any other calculator (OK, the HP71 can do that too, of course...). There's a down side to this, though. You may not think you'll want all the add-ons, but you will. You'll spend many times the cost of the 41 on add-ons, and your little calculator will end up taking over your workbench. [1] Basically undocumented multi-byte user language instructions 'synthesised' by combining parts of other instructions. You can do things like treating the alpha (text) register as 3 or 4 more numeric registers, you can edit progam memory (or key assignments) from within a running program, etc, etc, etc. You don't need any extra hardware for this (unlike true machine code programming). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 17 17:10:52 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: <20041117172325.12844.qmail@web52802.mail.yahoo.com> from "Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter" at Nov 17, 4 09:23:25 am Message-ID: > Yes, as no one (who is sane) uses a Newton or HP200LX for day-to-day business. I know I'm not sane, and I don't use a 200LX because I don't have one. But I certainly do useful work on a 95LX and 100LX. They're ideal for taking notes as I dismantle soemthing, for keeping a catalogue of books/components, for use as a terminal emulator, for simple spreadsheets (and I don't need anything more), etc, etc, etc. A more modern machine wouldn't give me any beneifts that can think of. It would take longer to use, it would probably have a much shorter battery life. No thanks. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 17 17:15:52 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: 200LX -- was: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: <20041117181851.40219.qmail@web52810.mail.yahoo.com> from "Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter" at Nov 17, 4 10:18:51 am Message-ID: > would come forward so I can write about them. However one thing I never > pretend is that vintage systems are actually "better" than today's. I don't pretend that either, because I don't need to. Many times the older machine _is_ better. OK, it's got less memory, it's got a slower processor, but it's plain nicer to use and does more _useful work_ as opposed to displaying a flashy user interface that gets in the way after you get used to the machine. The older machine just does the job. Another thread seems to be indicating that the HP41, which is 25 years old this year, is a more useful calcualtor than most (if not all) calculators that came after it. And for some applications that's true of computers too... I've heard that Windows users expect to have to re-install their OS and applications every month or so, and get a crash at least once a day. If one mof my classics started behaving like that I'd be grabbing the service manuals and logic analyser. Computers should not crash -- ever. If they do there's something wrong. > > - Evan (happily using his XP machine and Yahoo email) -tony (Happily avoiding everything from M$). From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 17 17:19:01 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration In-Reply-To: <419BBBF3.4070609@jetnet.ab.ca> from "ben franchuk" at Nov 17, 4 02:00:35 pm Message-ID: > > Rmemebr that most computers run off 5V and maybe 12V. You don't need that > > many dummy loads!. An assortment of car bulbs (and holders if you don't > > want to solder wires driectly to the bulb caps) is a good start. > > That is only true about TTL and computers that used a Z80 or later designed > chips. DTL also uses +5V IIRC. And (equally IIRC) the 8080 used some subest of +/-12V, +/-5V. 12V bulbs are common, 6V ones will do for the 5V rails. Going back even further, I guess 15V rails were quite usual. Perhaps 3 6V bulbs in series would do for those if you can't find 15V bulbs anywhere or find suitable resistors. -tony From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Wed Nov 17 17:28:04 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: Picture from 1954 Popular Mechanics Magazine In-Reply-To: <20041117141543.H84349@shell.lmi.net> References: <20041117141543.H84349@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <1100734084.3918.154.camel@fortran> On Wed, 2004-11-17 at 14:17 -0800, Fred Cisin wrote: > > I.E. what the hell is the steering wheel for? > > Pong > > > It's wired to a 16 (14?) pin DIP plug for Apple ][ > or to a DA15 for PC. HAHAHhahaha :D SOMEONE NEEDS TO DO THAT! :D Wire up a steering wheel for a car, or one of those big brass wheels used in subs for Pong! Dear Lord, that would be cool, and you'd need two car seats too, of course :) -- Tore S Bekkedal From news at computercollector.com Wed Nov 17 17:41:09 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: 200LX -- was: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041117234110.63002.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> >>>> I've heard that Windows users expect to have to re-install their OS and applications every month or so, and get a crash at least once a day. I'm no MSFT lover by any means. But if that's the latest you hear about Windows, then you're talking to people who haven't used it since the pre-1994 "vintage" Windows era of 3.x... or at least Win95. Once again, for emphasis: I'm no Microserf! Win 2000 was good; WinXP is very good. I've had it loaded for about a year (on a mediocre $500 clone) and never needed to reinstall anything. --- Tony Duell wrote: > > would come forward so I can write about them. However one thing I never > > pretend is that vintage systems are actually "better" than today's. > > I don't pretend that either, because I don't need to. Many times the > older machine _is_ better. OK, it's got less memory, it's got a slower > processor, but it's plain nicer to use and does more _useful work_ as > opposed to displaying a flashy user interface that gets in the way after > you get used to the machine. The older machine just does the job. > > Another thread seems to be indicating that the HP41, which is 25 years > old this year, is a more useful calcualtor than most (if not all) > calculators that came after it. And for some applications that's true of > computers too... > > I've heard that Windows users expect to have to re-install their OS and > applications every month or so, and get a crash at least once a day. If > one mof my classics started behaving like that I'd be grabbing the > service manuals and logic analyser. Computers should not crash -- ever. > If they do there's something wrong. > > > > > > - Evan (happily using his XP machine and Yahoo email) > > -tony (Happily avoiding everything from M$). > > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit the museums directory and read about past events at our web site: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 585 readers and counting! From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 17 17:47:07 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: <20041117172325.12844.qmail@web52802.mail.yahoo.com> References: <419B9034.22117.4F01CACB@localhost> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041117184707.009a0760@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:23 AM 11/17/04 -0800, you wrote: >>>>>> On the other hand, especialy you may agree that almost any kind of 94ish >PDA is vintage from todays view. Isn't it? > >Yes, as no one (who is sane) uses a Newton or HP200LX for day-to-day business. You're dead wrong about that. I know a lot of people that work in the field and take 200LXs with them to send and recieve messages. They also use them to setup radio systems and other equipment via RS-232 links. Many of these people work in the field for long periods and space and weight are a premium and a laptop, plus charger, plus battteries take up a lot more room and weight than a 200LX and take time to boot and them load a terminal program. The 200LX has the OS and applications in ROM and starts as soon as you press the On key. > >LOL, that kind of comment nearly got me attacked at the "10th anniversary of >the Newton" celebration at MIT last year. For safety I avoid the HP200 mailing >list entirely. :) You're still on the wrong list to make that kind of comment! :-) Joe > >--- Hans Franke wrote: > >> Am 17 Nov 2004 8:17 meinte Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter: >> > --- Ladyelec@aol.com wrote: >> > > Why not make it : >> > > 10 years: Vintage >> > > 20 years: classic >> > > 25 years: antique >> > > or something similar to that? >> > > Isa >> >> > The terms are too similar, people will just get more confused. >> >> Agreed. >> >> > All I intended to do when I started this discussion topic was to point out >> the >> > obsurdity of considering things like the Web and Pentiums as "vintage" (or >> any >> > other synonym). But then others observed back that I was being >> short-sighted >> > -- if you ignore that actual age, "vintage" just means "anything considered >> > obsolete by the mainstream," and that's a good enough answer for me. But I >> do >> > think that 15 years, not 10, is a better divider between what's just "old" >> and >> > what's truly vintage. >> >> Well, the important part was to get the off the actual stuff. >> Everything else is hard to do just by years. Shure, a 1994 PC >> might be about where you still may use it, and more important, >> might not look interesting at all from a colectors view. On >> the other hand, especialy you may agree that almost any kind >> 0f 94ish PDA is vintage from todays view. Isn't it? >> >> In fact, for VCFe the same 10 year limit is enfoced (exempts >> need very good reasoning). Everythin below is NADA, everything >> above up to everyones own judgement. So, I'm expecting PCs to >> show up soon. >> >> Gruss >> H. >> -- >> VCF Europa 6.0 am 30.April und 01.Mai 2005 in Muenchen >> http://www.vcfe.org/ >> >> > > >===== >Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! >-- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address >-- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us >-- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all > >Visit the museums directory and read about past events >at our web site: http://news.computercollector.com > >Contact us at news@computercollector.com > >585 readers and counting! > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 17 17:49:54 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: Ken Iverson, creator of APL dies. In-Reply-To: <16795.35751.284842.96619@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <20041117023437.MUPI14765.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> <3.0.6.32.20041117105600.00911460@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041117184954.009d1100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:34 PM 11/17/04 -0500, you wrote: >>>>>> "Joe" == Joe R writes: > > Joe> "Iverson passed away on Oct. 19 following a stroke while he was > Joe> working on his computer. He was 83. " He must have been using a > Joe> Windows PC! He should have stuck with APL. > > Joe> APL was my first computer language as well. I learned it form > Joe> Iverson's book A Programming Language and finally got to try it > Joe> out on an IBM 1130. I'll go for YEARs and not use APL and > Joe> finally getting rid of all my APL books and stuff but I always > Joe> find myself coming back to APL. > >There's a pretty good APL implementation that runs on Linux and >Solaris, among others, called OpenAPL. It includes a tweaked xterm >that handles the APL characters directly. Shucks. I can go in my living room, plug in the keyboard that already has the APL characters on it and turn on my IBM PC, and put in the APL disk and be using APL in about 2 minutes. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 17 17:51:22 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: References: <1100712591.3918.148.camel@fortran> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041117185122.009d3d20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:01 AM 11/17/04 -0800, Sellam wrote: >On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > >> Actually, the 200LX was a kickass handheld. I'd give the world for one. > >Really? Can you start gift-wrapping it for me? A nice big red bow would >be sweet as well. I'll get the 200LX in the mail soon. > >Do I also get all the people with the world? If so, can I discard the >ones I don't like? NO! :-) Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 17 17:54:13 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: HP 2113B service manual / schematics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041117185413.009d1bd0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:35 PM 11/17/04 +0000, you wrote: >Hi Joe, > >>One of the things that I noticed was that the computer kept running and >>even though I turned >off the power switch the cap kept sizzling. > >On the 2113 (and I guess from your description the 2117) the capacitor is >directly across the terminals on the mains input socket - i.e. on the >'always hot' side of the on/off switch. So turning the power off behind the >front panel of the computer won't help. Yeah I sort of noticed that! But it's sort of funny that they don't seem to fail unless the machine is running. Joe > >In order to effectively control interference the capacitor has to be mounted >as close to the point at which mains enters the equipment enclosure as >possible. Mounting it further away causes the input leads to act like an >antenna inside the enclosure. > >>I had to unplug the line cord to stop it. > >Yep, this is the only way to shut the power off to this capacitor, it is >always live when the equipment is plugged into a live mains socket. > >A good reason NOT to leave this sort of equipment plugged in but turned off! > >Peter Brown > > > From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Nov 17 17:59:50 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: 200LX -- was: 10 year rule References: <20041117234110.63002.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004601c4cd01$86dabcc0$992b1941@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 6:41 PM Subject: Re: 200LX -- was: 10 year rule > >>>> I've heard that Windows users expect to have to re-install their OS and > applications every month or so, and get a crash at least once a day. > > I'm no MSFT lover by any means. But if that's the latest you hear about > Windows, then you're talking to people who haven't used it since the pre-1994 > "vintage" Windows era of 3.x... or at least Win95. > > Once again, for emphasis: I'm no Microserf! Win 2000 was good; WinXP is very > good. I've had it loaded for about a year (on a mediocre $500 clone) and never > needed to reinstall anything. > > I find most of the people bashing Windows or Mac OS do not even use them to know what they are talking about. Win2k is very stable and probably does not need reinstalled ever, not sure about XP since I don't use it. The older Win 9x machine would need reinstalled every 8-12 months if you constantly install and uninstall apps, change hardware, and try every new device driver out (basically the typical game user). I find that even the older Mac OS 7.x and Windows 3.1 would be reliable enough for real work assuming you used a stable set of drivers and shut the machine down at the end of the day (to avoid memory leaks). I have yet to see an consumer OS that did not crash when using buggy hardware/drivers or buggy software. From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Wed Nov 17 18:19:08 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: 200LX -- was: 10 year rule Message-ID: <0411180019.AA15281@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Teo Zenios wrote: > I have yet to see an consumer OS that did not crash [...] "Consumer OS" is an oxymoron that constitutes the very root of the problem. There should be NO such thing as a "consumer OS". No consumer should ever be given a computer or an OS. Or for that matter, there should be no consumers at all. Two-leggeds living their lives as consumers are unworthy of life and are not even human since the true purpose of human life is to produce and contribute, rather than consume, eat, shit, sleep, fuck and pollute the environment with SUVs. Consumer societies like the modern Western world are a cancerous tumor on the body of Mother Earth that needs to be cut out (a few strategic nukes would be nice) to save the planet. -MS, Communist and believer in rule by the workers, noting that worker == producer. Workers of the world, unite to overthrow and annihilate the consumer society and replace it with a producer society! From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Nov 17 18:30:52 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: 200LX -- was: 10 year rule References: <0411180019.AA15281@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <005f01c4cd05$dc974c10$992b1941@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Sokolov" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 7:19 PM Subject: Re: 200LX -- was: 10 year rule > Teo Zenios wrote: > > > I have yet to see an consumer OS that did not crash [...] > > "Consumer OS" is an oxymoron that constitutes the very root of the problem. > There should be NO such thing as a "consumer OS". No consumer should > ever be given a computer or an OS. Or for that matter, there should be > no consumers at all. Two-leggeds living their lives as consumers are > unworthy of life and are not even human since the true purpose of human > life is to produce and contribute, rather than consume, eat, shit, sleep, > fuck and pollute the environment with SUVs. Consumer societies like the > modern Western world are a cancerous tumor on the body of Mother Earth > that needs to be cut out (a few strategic nukes would be nice) to save > the planet. > > -MS, Communist and believer in rule by the workers, noting that > worker == producer. Workers of the world, unite to overthrow and > annihilate the consumer society and replace it with a producer society! > You are still on this list? Why not be a good anarchist and give up all the things we consumers like (computers, junkfood, frozen food, running water, electricity, central air and heating) and go make yourself a log cabin out in the middle of nowhere and hunt your food with flint tools while using their fur for clothing and a small fire for heat. Pull your own teeth out when they rot, take out your own appendix when you need to, and enjoy life alone in the wilderness without consumers making you buy anything or even have to get a 9-5 job. From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Nov 17 18:33:08 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: HP 2113B service manual / schematics References: Message-ID: <001a01c4cd06$2e3fd690$9a88fea9@screamer> Its probably a little high because the I/O bus is unloaded. I've seen some variation on this supply voltage on my machines, but all of them work fine. ( I currently have 7 working 2113's, as well as a pair of 2116's, two 2115's, and a 2115 as well). Let me know if you need a hand getting the machine to boot some useful software. I can supply you with EPROM's (or EEPROM's) with bootable software, and information on how to build a simple paper tape reader emulator that reads them. You can also boot your 2113 from a PC's serial port with the right loader ROM and a BACI serial interface board on the HP. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Brown" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 9:46 PM Subject: Re: HP 2113B service manual / schematics > Hi Bob and Jay, > > Thanks for replying to my post. I now have a pile of schematics to try to > understand! > > Bob: Thanks for the info on the -2 volt rail - I'm not going to be running > any 2116 hardware so I guess I should be OK. > > I'm still intrigued as to why my rail should be out of spec (the service > manual is pretty precise about the rail limits). If any one has access to > the schematic for the standard power supply for the 2113B (i.e. without > the battery back up option) then I'd be very interested in getting hold of > a copy. > > Cheers > > Peter Brown > > From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Nov 17 18:53:58 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: 10 year rule References: <20041117161711.84587.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> <419B8AFE.70902@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <003301c4cd09$1768f250$9a88fea9@screamer> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc Shipley" To: ; ; "Discussion@mdrconsult.com :On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 12:31 PM Subject: Re: 10 year rule > Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter wrote: >> The terms are too similar, people will just get more confused. >> >> All I intended to do when I started this discussion topic was to point >> out the >> obsurdity of considering things like the Web and Pentiums as "vintage" >> (or any >> other synonym). But then others observed back that I was being >> short-sighted >> -- if you ignore that actual age, "vintage" just means "anything >> considered >> obsolete by the mainstream," and that's a good enough answer for me. But >> I do >> think that 15 years, not 10, is a better divider between what's just >> "old" and >> what's truly vintage. > > I think you're all looking at this completely backwards. > > The rate of electronic evolution (OK, change) has *accelerated* over > time, meaning that computers are obsoleted much more quickly than their > older counterparts. Therefore the age limit for this list should be > *lowered* to about 8 years now. > > Sometime in about 12 years a computer that's two weeks old will qualify > as a classic. > > I'll be grabbing my hat.... > > > Doc I think the problem with this discussion is partly that age does not equal collectability. Lets not even discuss the concept of 'value' and really muddy the waters. But in any type of 'collectable' items, mass-production, commodity products are not as desirable as a rare or hand-made version. Think of nails here, a hand-wrought vintage nail is a lot more interesting than one you might find in a modern hardware store. Along the same lines, a production PC will probably never be a desirable 'vintage' computer however old it becomes. But 50 years from now, one of today's 'hot-rod' case-modder PC with neon tubing and a solid aluminum chassis might become an important cultural artifact. A lot of this has to do with the 'production value' of the collectable in question. The 10-year rule, as I understand it, is intended to prevent the list from degenerating into a WinTel support group. From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Nov 17 18:56:51 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: HP 2113B service manual / schematics References: Message-ID: <003b01c4cd09$7ea0e590$9a88fea9@screamer> Actually, these caps usually don't fail in equipment that's powered up for long periods. They fail after being unused for a long time and then returned to service. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Brown" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 1:35 PM Subject: Re: HP 2113B service manual / schematics > Hi Joe, > >>One of the things that I noticed was that the computer kept running and >>even though I turned >off the power switch the cap kept sizzling. > > On the 2113 (and I guess from your description the 2117) the capacitor is > directly across the terminals on the mains input socket - i.e. on the > 'always hot' side of the on/off switch. So turning the power off behind > the front panel of the computer won't help. > > In order to effectively control interference the capacitor has to be > mounted as close to the point at which mains enters the equipment > enclosure as possible. Mounting it further away causes the input leads to > act like an antenna inside the enclosure. > >>I had to unplug the line cord to stop it. > > Yep, this is the only way to shut the power off to this capacitor, it is > always live when the equipment is plugged into a live mains socket. > > A good reason NOT to leave this sort of equipment plugged in but turned > off! > > Peter Brown > > From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Nov 17 19:00:23 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: HP 2113B service manual / schematics References: <3.0.6.32.20041117185413.009d1bd0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <004401c4cd09$fcf1a0b0$9a88fea9@screamer> Because these caps are there to suppress HF noise from inside the supply.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 6:54 PM Subject: Re: HP 2113B service manual / schematics > At 06:35 PM 11/17/04 +0000, you wrote: >>Hi Joe, >> >>>One of the things that I noticed was that the computer kept running and >>>even though I turned >off the power switch the cap kept sizzling. >> >>On the 2113 (and I guess from your description the 2117) the capacitor is >>directly across the terminals on the mains input socket - i.e. on the >>'always hot' side of the on/off switch. So turning the power off behind >>the >>front panel of the computer won't help. > > Yeah I sort of noticed that! But it's sort of funny that they don't seem > to fail unless the machine is running. > > Joe > > >> >>In order to effectively control interference the capacitor has to be >>mounted >>as close to the point at which mains enters the equipment enclosure as >>possible. Mounting it further away causes the input leads to act like an >>antenna inside the enclosure. >> >>>I had to unplug the line cord to stop it. >> >>Yep, this is the only way to shut the power off to this capacitor, it is >>always live when the equipment is plugged into a live mains socket. >> >>A good reason NOT to leave this sort of equipment plugged in but turned >>off! >> >>Peter Brown >> >> >> > From news at computercollector.com Wed Nov 17 19:03:39 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: <003301c4cd09$1768f250$9a88fea9@screamer> Message-ID: <20041118010339.17594.qmail@web52810.mail.yahoo.com> >>>> The 10-year rule, as I understand it, is intended to prevent the list from degenerating into a WinTel support group. LOL, well isn't that exactly the same conclusion we reached a couple weeks ago (and a year ago, and the year before that, indefinitely)...? Let's change the topic. I HEARD A RUMOR THAT SELLAM IS PUTTING HIS WHOLE COLLECTION ON EBAY. that oughta be fun :) --- Bob Shannon wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Doc Shipley" > To: ; ; > "Discussion@mdrconsult.com :On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 12:31 PM > Subject: Re: 10 year rule > > > > Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter wrote: > >> The terms are too similar, people will just get more confused. > >> > >> All I intended to do when I started this discussion topic was to point > >> out the > >> obsurdity of considering things like the Web and Pentiums as "vintage" > >> (or any > >> other synonym). But then others observed back that I was being > >> short-sighted > >> -- if you ignore that actual age, "vintage" just means "anything > >> considered > >> obsolete by the mainstream," and that's a good enough answer for me. But > >> I do > >> think that 15 years, not 10, is a better divider between what's just > >> "old" and > >> what's truly vintage. > > > > I think you're all looking at this completely backwards. > > > > The rate of electronic evolution (OK, change) has *accelerated* over > > time, meaning that computers are obsoleted much more quickly than their > > older counterparts. Therefore the age limit for this list should be > > *lowered* to about 8 years now. > > > > Sometime in about 12 years a computer that's two weeks old will qualify > > as a classic. > > > > I'll be grabbing my hat.... > > > > > > Doc > > I think the problem with this discussion is partly that age does not equal > collectability. > > Lets not even discuss the concept of 'value' and really muddy the waters. > But in any > type of 'collectable' items, mass-production, commodity products are not as > desirable > as a rare or hand-made version. > > Think of nails here, a hand-wrought vintage nail is a lot more interesting > than one you > might find in a modern hardware store. > > Along the same lines, a production PC will probably never be a desirable > 'vintage' computer > however old it becomes. But 50 years from now, one of today's 'hot-rod' > case-modder PC > with neon tubing and a solid aluminum chassis might become an important > cultural artifact. > A lot of this has to do with the 'production value' of the collectable in > question. > > The 10-year rule, as I understand it, is intended to prevent the list from > degenerating into > a WinTel support group. > > > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit the museums directory and read about past events at our web site: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 585 readers and counting! From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Nov 17 19:14:31 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: <003301c4cd09$1768f250$9a88fea9@screamer> References: <20041117161711.84587.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> <419B8AFE.70902@mdrconsult.com> <003301c4cd09$1768f250$9a88fea9@screamer> Message-ID: <419BF777.9070504@mdrconsult.com> Bob Shannon wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc Shipley" > To: ; ; > "Discussion@mdrconsult.com :On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 12:31 PM > Subject: Re: 10 year rule > > >> Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter wrote: >> >>> The terms are too similar, people will just get more confused. >>> >>> All I intended to do when I started this discussion topic was to >>> point out the >>> obsurdity of considering things like the Web and Pentiums as >>> "vintage" (or any >>> other synonym). But then others observed back that I was being >>> short-sighted >>> -- if you ignore that actual age, "vintage" just means "anything >>> considered >>> obsolete by the mainstream," and that's a good enough answer for me. >>> But I do >>> think that 15 years, not 10, is a better divider between what's just >>> "old" and >>> what's truly vintage. >> >> >> I think you're all looking at this completely backwards. >> >> The rate of electronic evolution (OK, change) has *accelerated* over >> time, meaning that computers are obsoleted much more quickly than >> their older counterparts. Therefore the age limit for this list >> should be *lowered* to about 8 years now. >> >> Sometime in about 12 years a computer that's two weeks old will >> qualify as a classic. >> >> I'll be grabbing my hat.... >> >> >> Doc > > > I think the problem with this discussion is partly that age does not > equal collectability. > > Lets not even discuss the concept of 'value' and really muddy the > waters. But in any > type of 'collectable' items, mass-production, commodity products are not > as desirable > as a rare or hand-made version. > > Think of nails here, a hand-wrought vintage nail is a lot more > interesting than one you > might find in a modern hardware store. Or, an example that's sitting in front of me right now - an SGI 320 "PC". It is a PC, and a pretty recent one, in that it runs Windows and is a dual-PII. As a matter of fact, to my eternal disgust, it will *only* run Windows in graphics mode. However, it's a decidedly non-commodity system. SGI used a custom BIOS that bypasses a lot of the x86 legacy cruft and is optimized to the NT/Win2k OS family. Very fast RAM, all SCSI, very high-end graphics, and one of the first Wintel systems to drop PS/2 in favor of USB HIDs. Plus, they're so ugly they're cute. Since my spousal equivalent retired her W98 Athlon in favor of an eMac, the only PCs in the house have been the Linux files/DNS/DHCP/MOPS /TFTP server and a little Soekris firewall. But when this 320 and its flat panel came available, I jumped on it without a second thought. I'm not very sure what I'm gonna do with a Windows box, but I'm sure I'll think of something. Now I just wish I could afford the ~$300USD for a DVI multilink adapter for this 1600SW. Anyhow, the point is that since it's not 10 years old, and it only runs Windows, it's not "classic" by the conventions of this group. It *is* a major departure from commodity PC hardware, though, it is fairly uncommon, and I wouldn't blush a bit about discussing it on this list. > The 10-year rule, as I understand it, is intended to prevent the list > from degenerating into > a WinTel support group. You guys do realize that my 8-year suggestion was a joke, right? Doc From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Nov 17 19:39:28 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: <20041118010339.17594.qmail@web52810.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041118010339.17594.qmail@web52810.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > news@computercollector.com sez: > Let's change the topic. I HEARD A RUMOR THAT SELLAM IS PUTTING HIS WHOLE > COLLECTION ON EBAY. LIVERMORE (for immediate release) Long time 'orphan computer' collector, raconteur, bon-vivant, and All-Around Swell Guy Sellam Ismail today reported that, after climbing to the very top of the sprawling 10-meter tall mountain of s.......tuff in his backwoods cyber-reclamation facility to take the photographs demanded by the EPA and the Berkeley Siesmological Department, he noticed an uncanny, some might say prophetically eery, likeness of the ancient Sumerian God of Accountants and Calulators - 'Abbaquus Qiipoo' when the photos were downloaded and heavily Photoshopped. Realizing the awesome portents of this wildly magical revelation, the wily entrpreneur immdiately did the only thing concievable in this situation: he put the entire collection, as it is, on eBay, with a starting bid of US$1.5Bn, and No Reserve. "Well, fuck!" says Ismail with characteristic candor. "If some incredibly stupid bitch in Florida can auction off a crummy goddam *sandwich* in the name of God and the Holy Roman Church, then I say 'get the fuck outa my way' because I'm at least two orders of magnitude more K3WL in every way than she is, or her fucked-up nasty old bitten-off schiesse grilled cheese!!" When asked how a potentially successful bidder would essay to move the entire collection with out disturbing the critical arrangement of cabinets and monitors and cast-off impact printers, Ismail replied: "Like I even give a fuck?? I'll already be on a jet to my own private Island, and they can bomb the goddam shit, for all I care.." Any last words for our audience, Sellam? "Jeeeezus Aitch Kreist do I love eBay!!! Now where's my goddamn Taser? I gotta hot date tonight..." --------------------------------------------------------- From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Nov 17 19:23:59 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: Testing Power Supplies! Re: Norsk Data Nord-10/S restoration References: <419BBBF3.4070609@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <16795.63919.586000.179204@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell writes: >> > Rmemebr that most computers run off 5V and maybe 12V. You don't >> need that > many dummy loads!. An assortment of car bulbs (and >> holders if you don't > want to solder wires driectly to the bulb >> caps) is a good start. >> >> That is only true about TTL and computers that used a Z80 or later >> designed chips. Tony> DTL also uses +5V IIRC. I believe +6, though +5 would probably work. And RTL is +3.6... paul From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Nov 17 19:47:11 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: <20041118010339.17594.qmail@web52810.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041118010339.17594.qmail@web52810.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20041117174630.G91799@shell.lmi.net> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter wrote: > I HEARD A RUMOR THAT SELLAM IS PUTTING HIS WHOLE > COLLECTION ON EBAY. Is eBay big enough to handle it? From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Nov 17 19:55:09 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: time machine... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041117175250.D91799@shell.lmi.net> On Tue, 16 Nov 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > making a 4FDC talk to Shugart 851's (plus my 801's and 851's) > (solution: the data-separator add-on card for some Tandy Model > x computer, a daughter board that fits under the 1771 chip) The data separator was made by Percom to fit what we now refer to as the "model 1" (When it came out, it was just called the "TRS-80") They also made the "Doubler", which was later copied by Tandy. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Nov 17 20:45:29 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: <419BF777.9070504@mdrconsult.com> References: <20041117161711.84587.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> <419B8AFE.70902@mdrconsult.com> <003301c4cd09$1768f250$9a88fea9@screamer> <419BF777.9070504@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: >a little Soekris firewall. But when this 320 and its flat panel >came available, I jumped on it without a second thought. I'm not >very sure what I'm gonna do with a Windows box, but I'm sure I'll >think of something. > > Now I just wish I could afford the ~$300USD for a DVI multilink >adapter for this 1600SW. > > Anyhow, the point is that since it's not 10 years old, and it only >runs Windows, it's not "classic" by the conventions of this group. >It *is* a major departure from commodity PC hardware, though, it is >fairly uncommon, and I wouldn't blush a bit about discussing it on >this list. Actually I think it *almost* falls under the "really cool hardware" exemption, by virtue of the 1600SW panel. :^) I *so* want one of those for my o2/270! The problem is I can't justify the cost of buying one on ePay. Besides, from the PC HW point they actually do sound like interesting systems. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 17 20:03:51 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: 200LX -- was: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: <0411180019.AA15281@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041117210351.008b4290@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:19 AM 11/18/04 +0000, you wrote: >Teo Zenios wrote: > >> I have yet to see an consumer OS that did not crash [...] I've never had a crash on my three HP 200 LXs! I've never had a crash on my Rubicon CPM-86 system or either of my HP CPM systems. I never had a crash on any of the ISIS systems but I guess those aren't consumer systems. Joe From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Nov 17 21:00:24 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: References: <20041117161711.84587.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> <419B8AFE.70902@mdrconsult.com> <003301c4cd09$1768f250$9a88fea9@screamer> <419BF777.9070504@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <419C1048.6060502@mdrconsult.com> Zane H. Healy wrote: >> a little Soekris firewall. But when this 320 and its flat panel came >> available, I jumped on it without a second thought. I'm not very sure >> what I'm gonna do with a Windows box, but I'm sure I'll think of >> something. >> >> Now I just wish I could afford the ~$300USD for a DVI multilink >> adapter for this 1600SW. >> >> Anyhow, the point is that since it's not 10 years old, and it only >> runs Windows, it's not "classic" by the conventions of this group. It >> *is* a major departure from commodity PC hardware, though, it is >> fairly uncommon, and I wouldn't blush a bit about discussing it on >> this list. > > > Actually I think it *almost* falls under the "really cool hardware" > exemption, by virtue of the 1600SW panel. :^) I *so* want one of those > for my o2/270! The problem is I can't justify the cost of buying one on > ePay. Man, this thing is a close runner-up to an Apple Cinema Display for color and crispness. Since I don't *have* a cinema display (or a thousand clams to get one) I'm very seriously considering a MultiLink adapter. My current tube is a SGI GDM-4011P, and the flat-panel makes it look like cheap Sampo junk. > Besides, from the PC HW point they actually do sound like interesting > systems. It really is. It's got Win2K Pro on it, with 2x 450MHz P-IIs, 512MB, the A/V modules, and a Cheetah 50GB LVD disk. As soon as I get the Cygwin tools built, I expect it to approximate a useful system. ;) Doc From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Nov 17 22:23:28 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: <419C1048.6060502@mdrconsult.com> References: <20041117161711.84587.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> <419B8AFE.70902@mdrconsult.com> <003301c4cd09$1768f250$9a88fea9@screamer> <419BF777.9070504@mdrconsult.com> <419C1048.6060502@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: > Man, this thing is a close runner-up to an Apple Cinema Display >for color and crispness. Since I don't *have* a cinema display (or >a thousand clams to get one) I'm very seriously considering a >MultiLink adapter. My current tube is a SGI GDM-4011P, and the >flat-panel makes it look like cheap Sampo junk. Oh, you just had to tell me that didn't you. I probably wouldn't even have to work that hard to talk my wife into a 1600SW, as she wanted one when I got the o2! > It really is. It's got Win2K Pro on it, with 2x 450MHz P-IIs, >512MB, the A/V modules, and a Cheetah 50GB LVD disk. As soon as I >get the Cygwin tools built, I expect it to approximate a useful >system. ;) Is it possible to put Linux on one of these? That's what it would take to make them really interesting for me (though I'd prefer Solaris x86 on one). Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Nov 17 23:21:52 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: References: <20041117161711.84587.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> <419B8AFE.70902@mdrconsult.com> <003301c4cd09$1768f250$9a88fea9@screamer> <419BF777.9070504@mdrconsult.com> <419C1048.6060502@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <419C3170.4040401@mdrconsult.com> Zane H. Healy wrote: >> Man, this thing is a close runner-up to an Apple Cinema Display for >> color and crispness. Since I don't *have* a cinema display (or a >> thousand clams to get one) I'm very seriously considering a MultiLink >> adapter. My current tube is a SGI GDM-4011P, and the flat-panel makes >> it look like cheap Sampo junk. > > > Oh, you just had to tell me that didn't you. I probably wouldn't even > have to work that hard to talk my wife into a 1600SW, as she wanted one > when I got the o2! My work is done, here. :) Just to rub it in a little, this was a "brother-in-law deal". I paid less for the whole rig than the 1600SW sells for on eBay. And no stuck pixels. > Is it possible to put Linux on one of these? That's what it would take > to make them really interesting for me (though I'd prefer Solaris x86 on > one). Neither OS supports the accelerated graphics. I think it'll run Linux, but only in text mode and maybe unaccelerated VESA graphics mode. I'm looking into video capture software. There are some things I'd like to do, and I think between the 320 and the Octane with EVO I have the hardware to do the capture (from VHS, 16mm, and mini-VHS), then I can do the editing on the G5. Doc From vcf at siconic.com Wed Nov 17 23:41:09 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041117185122.009d3d20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > At 10:01 AM 11/17/04 -0800, Sellam wrote: > >On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > > > >> Actually, the 200LX was a kickass handheld. I'd give the world for one. > > > >Really? Can you start gift-wrapping it for me? A nice big red bow would > >be sweet as well. I'll get the 200LX in the mail soon. > > > >Do I also get all the people with the world? If so, can I discard the > >ones I don't like? > > > NO! :-) In that case I'll keep the 200LX ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Nov 17 23:43:10 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: 200LX -- was: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: <0411180019.AA15281@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Nov 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > -MS, Communist and believer in rule by the workers, noting that > worker == producer. Workers of the world, unite to overthrow and > annihilate the consumer society and replace it with a producer society! And Kill Whitey too god damn it!! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Nov 17 23:46:16 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: <20041118010339.17594.qmail@web52810.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter wrote: > Let's change the topic. I HEARD A RUMOR THAT SELLAM IS PUTTING HIS WHOLE > COLLECTION ON EBAY. Yes, it's all for sale. $1 reserve. Three caveats: take all or nothing (bring 4 semis); it must be out of here in 24 hours tops; you are allowed 1 helper. > that oughta be fun :) ...for me to watch :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Nov 17 23:56:40 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: 200LX -- was: 10 year rule References: <0411180019.AA15281@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <007901c4cd33$5fd7a250$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> M. Sokolov wrote... > "Consumer OS" is an oxymoron that constitutes the very root of the > problem. > There should be NO such thing as a "consumer OS". Must.... resist...urge... to..... ^D From gordon at gjcp.net Thu Nov 18 03:06:24 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: 200LX -- was: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: <004601c4cd01$86dabcc0$992b1941@game> References: <20041117234110.63002.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> <004601c4cd01$86dabcc0$992b1941@game> Message-ID: <419C6610.8040601@gjcp.net> Teo Zenios wrote: > I find most of the people bashing Windows or Mac OS do not even use them to > know what they are talking about. Win2k is very stable and probably does not > need reinstalled ever, not sure about XP since I don't use it. The older Win > 9x machine would need reinstalled every 8-12 months if you constantly > install and uninstall apps, change hardware, and try every new device driver > out (basically the typical game user). I find that even the older Mac OS 7.x > and Windows 3.1 would be reliable enough for real work assuming you used a > stable set of drivers and shut the machine down at the end of the day (to > avoid memory leaks). I have yet to see an consumer OS that did not crash > when using buggy hardware/drivers or buggy software. > I use various "free" Unixes (Linux and NetBSD, mainly) and a couple of commercial ones. What you tend to find with buggy software is that the application will crash, leaving the underlying operating system untouched. If you're really unlucky, it might leave X in an uncertain state and you'll need to restart it. I use Windows 2000 at work, and while it does appear to be fairly stable, it's so limited that it's practically impossible to get any real work done. Gordon. From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Thu Nov 18 03:24:22 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: 200LX -- was: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: <20041117234110.63002.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041117234110.63002.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1100769862.3918.161.camel@fortran> On Wed, 2004-11-17 at 15:41 -0800, Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter wrote: > Once again, for emphasis: I'm no Microserf! Win 2000 was good; WinXP is very > good. No, and very very no. :P > I've had it loaded for about a year (on a mediocre $500 clone) and never > needed to reinstall anything. That explains your opinion of it being good. Try maintaining it over a large network like my school did. The network didn't work - THE FIRST TWO YEARS. When I left that school it still took 45 minutes to log in. I recently got my mom using Linux, after maintaining the hopeless mess she made of her Windows install. She happily clicks away, and is far happier and doing far more with it, than she ever was with Windows XP. Not that any of this is on-topic at all. For the sake of the other list members, I'll agree to disagree :) -- Tore S Bekkedal From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Nov 18 06:26:16 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics Message-ID: <1100780776.12464.17.camel@weka.localdomain> Has anyone got any useful tips for tracing out schematics? The SMPSU in this 'ere NCR Tower is toast, but it's a complex beastie as it's pretty huge and spread over two large boards. Is copying down component locations (but in their schematic form) to a sheet of paper the same sort of size as the PCB a good place to start? (Which can then be tweaked into a more sensible-looking schematic later) What about making a list of every component on the board and how many tracks leave it at each terminal, which can then be used for sanity checking? I'm not used to drawing out schematics for something this complex, so on smaller items I normally just muddle through somehow :) At least this one's only 2 layer... Aside: the PSU doesn't blow fuses, but is totally dead and doesn't even attempt to start. I found a dead 5W 10 ohm resistor (open circuit, no discolouration) in the live feed upstream of the bridge, which seemed like an odd component failure. I had a spare in the junk pile so replaced it, and that one immediately went the same way. The diodes in the bridge check out OK, the main filter caps aren't shorted, and the large chopper transistors (all 8 of them) seem healthy enough tested on a meter. Whether the filter caps are on the way out is another matter - no bulging/leakage though (I've got a homebrew ESR meter, but it's at the museum at the moment not at home) Startup for the machine is on the surface pretty complex; the switch on the front goes into the main backplane (multibus) and from there to who knows where. Then there are 12 low-power wires going between the backplane and the PSU (in addition to the main power lines) presumably for status monitoring / startup signal. Then there's going to be a lot of charging circuitry in the PSU for the system battery that keeps the memory alive when the mains power goes out... Hence the reason having done some obvious checks I really need to trace out the whole darn lot so I can see how the thing's even supposed to start up... :) cheers Jules -- PERSON 1: That's an awful gash on your forehead! How did you get it? PERSON 2: I bit myself. PERSON 1: How the hell did you manage to bite yourself on the forehead? PERSON 2: I stood on a chair. From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Nov 18 06:22:12 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: 10 year rule In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Nov 17, 04 09:46:16 pm Message-ID: <200411181222.HAA26334@wordstock.com> And thusly Vintage Computer Festival spake: > > On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter wrote: > > > Let's change the topic. I HEARD A RUMOR THAT SELLAM IS PUTTING HIS WHOLE > > COLLECTION ON EBAY. > > Yes, it's all for sale. $1 reserve. Three caveats: take all or nothing > (bring 4 semis); it must be out of here in 24 hours tops; you are > allowed 1 helper. > but can we wear forklift exoskeletons? (ie from the movie Aliens) Cheers, Bryan From bert at brothom.nl Thu Nov 18 06:39:29 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: <1100780776.12464.17.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1100780776.12464.17.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1396.192.168.0.116.1100781569.squirrel@office.brothom.nl> > Has anyone got any useful tips for tracing out schematics? The SMPSU in I've thought about posting this question myself in the past, but now that you did, here are my tips: step 1: if not clear already, assign reference designators to each component step 2: make a netlist of the board step 3: create schematics from the netlist I've read in the past that Tony called someone a whimp cause he said he didn't dare to reverse engineer a 4 layer board or something like that. I wonder, if _that_ is easy, how does one solve problems like traces that run under components? If its a simple and cheap component, it could be removed and replaced later. Bert From gordon at gjcp.net Thu Nov 18 07:25:59 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: <1396.192.168.0.116.1100781569.squirrel@office.brothom.nl> References: <1100780776.12464.17.camel@weka.localdomain> <1396.192.168.0.116.1100781569.squirrel@office.brothom.nl> Message-ID: <419CA2E7.5030500@gjcp.net> Bert Thomas wrote: > I've read in the past that Tony called someone a whimp cause he said he > didn't dare to reverse engineer a 4 layer board or something like that. I > wonder, if _that_ is easy, how does one solve problems like traces that > run under components? If its a simple and cheap component, it could be > removed and replaced later. > When I traced out the circuit diagram for my Ensoniq Mirage sampler's ailing analogue section, I just measured the DC resistance between two points and guessed. With a bit of thought, you can usually judge what makes sense to be connected to what. Gordon. From dave04a at dunfield.com Thu Nov 18 07:35:02 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics Message-ID: <20041118133501.CVRK26467.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> At 13:25 18/11/2004 +0000, you wrote: >Bert Thomas wrote: > >> I've read in the past that Tony called someone a whimp cause he said he >> didn't dare to reverse engineer a 4 layer board or something like that. I >> wonder, if _that_ is easy, how does one solve problems like traces that >> run under components? If its a simple and cheap component, it could be >> removed and replaced later. >> > >When I traced out the circuit diagram for my Ensoniq Mirage sampler's >ailing analogue section, I just measured the DC resistance between two >points and guessed. With a bit of thought, you can usually judge what >makes sense to be connected to what. A technique that I've used out of desperation when trying to track a few signals through a multi-layer board where I had "no idea" where they came out, is to cut a square of aluminum foil - size depends on board size and how "fine" you want to be - press it onto regions of the board using a pad or sponge to insure it presses down on all connections (obviously you do this with the power off, board disconnected and any nicads/supercaps removed etc.) - this lets you test conductance from the original signal to whole areas of the board.. Once you narrow down the area where the signal appears, it is much easier to find it. Whole pile of caveats and warnings about shorting components which may still be charged, passing current from DVM through unknown paths through the circuitry etc. will no doubt be forthcoming - just be careful and aware of what you are doing - YMMV, but it has worked for me on more than one occation. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From williams.dan at gmail.com Thu Nov 18 07:46:21 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: pdp 8 on ebay Message-ID: <26c11a64041118054656ffab7f@mail.gmail.com> Anyone bidding on this ?. It's up to ?162 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5138735133 If you check out his other auctions he has an 8" drive for an altair machine as well. Nothing to do with the seller although I have bought a few things frim him. I got the 380z from him. Dan From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Thu Nov 18 08:03:41 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: Sun Type 5 keyboard f*-up Message-ID: <1100786622.3918.167.camel@fortran> Allright, I just fucked up severely. I tipped a scented candle over my two keyboards. One of them is a Tandberg PS/2 keyboard, hooked up to my Indy, which I without worry took downstairs and scrubbed thoroughly with a dishwashing detergent. However, the other keyboard is a Sun Microsystems Type 5. How rugged is this KB? Will it take water, and relatively hot water too? I will of course separate the keyboard layer from the logic layer if they turn out to be separate Does anyone know, or am I walking on undiscovered land? I'll report back if I try (I have two spares, thank God... This and the Tandberg are my two favorite KBs.) -- Tore S Bekkedal From james at jdfogg.com Thu Nov 18 09:26:19 2004 From: james at jdfogg.com (james) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: Sun Type 5 keyboard f*-up In-Reply-To: <1100786622.3918.167.camel@fortran> References: <1100786622.3918.167.camel@fortran> Message-ID: <1100791579.2231.8.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> > How rugged is this KB? Will it take water, and relatively hot water > too? Any keyboard will take boiling water, at least on the circuitry. During manufacture circuit boards are washed after wave soldering in a 200 degree spray (ph isn't neutral, but I don't remember which way it swings). The only concern is the plastics. I've washed all my keyboards (incl Sun) in dishwashers on regular cycle with a little detergent (NOT Cascade or other powder detergents that contain sand - use liquid). I don't recommend using the drying cycle. The trick is to chase the water afterwards and I use isopropynol (rubbing alcohol) to do that. Isopropynol binds to water and will take it away as it flows off the board. Follow with a hair dryer and a day or two in the sun. This also works for rescuing electronics that have been dropped in lakes/oceans if you get to them quickly. From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Nov 18 08:43:10 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: pdp 8 on ebay In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:46:21 GMT." <26c11a64041118054656ffab7f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200411181443.OAA21243@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Dan Williams said: > Anyone bidding on this ?. It's up to ?162 > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5138735133 > > If you check out his other auctions he has an 8" drive for an altair > machine as well. > > Nothing to do with the seller although I have bought a few things frim > him. I got the 380z from him. I looked at that, but I think it will go for more than I can afford atm. I missed out on the Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1 that was on eBay last week, I was rushed to hospital just before the auction ended so couldn't place a bid :-( I'll find something nice one day! -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Thu Nov 18 09:52:24 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: Sun Type 5 keyboard f*-up In-Reply-To: <1100791579.2231.8.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> References: <1100786622.3918.167.camel@fortran> <1100791579.2231.8.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> Message-ID: <1100793144.3918.171.camel@fortran> On Thu, 2004-11-18 at 10:26 -0500, james wrote: > > How rugged is this KB? Will it take water, and relatively hot water > > too? > > Any keyboard will take boiling water, at least on the circuitry. During > manufacture circuit boards are washed after wave soldering in a 200 > degree spray (ph isn't neutral, but I don't remember which way it > swings). > > The only concern is the plastics. > > I've washed all my keyboards (incl Sun) in dishwashers on regular cycle > with a little detergent (NOT Cascade or other powder detergents that > contain sand - use liquid). I don't recommend using the drying cycle. > The trick is to chase the water afterwards and I use isopropynol > (rubbing alcohol) to do that. Isopropynol binds to water and will take > it away as it flows off the board. > > Follow with a hair dryer and a day or two in the sun. > > This also works for rescuing electronics that have been dropped in > lakes/oceans if you get to them quickly. Brilliant! That is extremely useful general-purpose information. I also happen to have what in Norwegian is called isopropanol, I can only assume that they are the same? Again, thank you, that info will come in handy. I have some insanely dirty SGI KB's I got recently, too. > > -- Tore S Bekkedal From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Nov 18 10:18:05 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:45 2005 Subject: Sun Type 5 keyboard f*-up In-Reply-To: <1100793144.3918.171.camel@fortran> References: <1100786622.3918.167.camel@fortran> <1100791579.2231.8.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> <1100793144.3918.171.camel@fortran> Message-ID: <200411181621.LAA14557@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> The trick is to chase the water afterwards and I use isopropynol >> (rubbing alcohol) to do that. > I also happen to have what in Norwegian is called isopropanol, I can > only assume that they are the same? Yes. Isopropanol is the more common spelling p? engelsk too, probably because it's the IUPAC name (or at least I think it is, it's been a while since I took chemistry). Rubbing alcohol is normally isopropanol with a significant admixture of water (I just looked at a bottle of it and it says 70%, with the other 30% presumably being water). /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From james at jdfogg.com Thu Nov 18 10:28:16 2004 From: james at jdfogg.com (james) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: Sun Type 5 keyboard f*-up In-Reply-To: <1100793144.3918.171.camel@fortran> References: <1100786622.3918.167.camel@fortran> <1100791579.2231.8.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> <1100793144.3918.171.camel@fortran> Message-ID: <1100795296.2574.6.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> > Brilliant! That is extremely useful general-purpose information. I also > happen to have what in Norwegian is called isopropanol, I can only > assume that they are the same? Same thing. I think I mis-spelled it anyways. What we are talking about is isopropyl alcohol. I think isopropanol is supposed to contain a little water. If it contains water, get some that has as little water as possible, like 90% alcohol. From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Nov 18 10:30:47 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: Sun Type 5 keyboard f*-up In-Reply-To: Your message of "18 Nov 2004 10:26:19 EST." <1100791579.2231.8.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> Message-ID: <200411181630.iAIGUlas000470@mwave.heeltoe.com> james wrote: > >I've washed all my keyboards (incl Sun) in dishwashers on regular cycle >with a little detergent (NOT Cascade or other powder detergents that >contain sand - use liquid). I don't recommend using the drying cycle. wow. that's amazing. and it works? ok, I spilled some red wine a keyboard the other day and the space bar no longer works. I'll try this tonight. (btw: I've also dumped a martini on a keyboard but I found that afterwards it worked *better*. So, martini good, red wine bad - at least for keyboards :-) i'm guessing hot wax only increases performance in the movies - ouch! :-) >The trick is to chase the water afterwards and I use isopropynol >(rubbing alcohol) to do that. Isopropynol binds to water and will take >it away as it flows off the board. "chase the water" - can you explain? does that mean after the dishwasher spray the top of it liberally with isopropanol? >Follow with a hair dryer and a day or two in the sun. and then use the hair dryer, followed by sun? -brad From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Thu Nov 18 10:37:35 2004 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: Sun Type 5 keyboard f*-up In-Reply-To: <1100791579.2231.8.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> Message-ID: > > How rugged is this KB? Will it take water, and relatively hot water > > too? > > Any keyboard will take boiling water, at least on the circuitry. During > manufacture circuit boards are washed after wave soldering in a 200 > degree spray (ph isn't neutral, but I don't remember which way it > swings). > > The only concern is the plastics. > > I've washed all my keyboards (incl Sun) in dishwashers on regular cycle > with a little detergent (NOT Cascade or other powder detergents that > contain sand - use liquid). I don't recommend using the drying cycle. > The trick is to chase the water afterwards and I use isopropynol > (rubbing alcohol) to do that. Isopropynol binds to water and will take > it away as it flows off the board. > > Follow with a hair dryer and a day or two in the sun. > > This also works for rescuing electronics that have been dropped in > lakes/oceans if you get to them quickly. Umm... don't Sun type 5 keyboards have capacitive foam pads? How will the introduction of any fluid affect them? From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Nov 18 11:53:22 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: Sun Type 5 keyboard f*-up Message-ID: <200411181753.JAA29918@clulw009.amd.com> Hi The Sun keyboards would need to be disassembled if they have water on them. These are made of multiple layers of flexible pcb. One might dry for a month and not get it dry. Just a few hours with the layers wet will cause traces to be rotted away ( from experience ). Dwight >From: james > >> How rugged is this KB? Will it take water, and relatively hot water >> too? > >Any keyboard will take boiling water, at least on the circuitry. During >manufacture circuit boards are washed after wave soldering in a 200 >degree spray (ph isn't neutral, but I don't remember which way it >swings). > >The only concern is the plastics. > >I've washed all my keyboards (incl Sun) in dishwashers on regular cycle >with a little detergent (NOT Cascade or other powder detergents that >contain sand - use liquid). I don't recommend using the drying cycle. >The trick is to chase the water afterwards and I use isopropynol >(rubbing alcohol) to do that. Isopropynol binds to water and will take >it away as it flows off the board. > >Follow with a hair dryer and a day or two in the sun. > >This also works for rescuing electronics that have been dropped in >lakes/oceans if you get to them quickly. > > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Nov 18 12:09:33 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: Sun Type 5 keyboard f*-up In-Reply-To: <200411181753.JAA29918@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200411181753.JAA29918@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <1100801373.13067.2.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-11-18 at 09:53 -0800, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi > The Sun keyboards would need to be disassembled if they have > water on them. These are made of multiple layers of flexible > pcb. I'd forgotten that - I knew I'd had one apart before but couldn't remember what it was like inside. ISTR drying the flexible layers individually with a hairdryer and not having any trouble afterwards. cheers Jules From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Nov 18 13:21:18 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: Sun Type 5 keyboard f*-up In-Reply-To: Tore S Bekkedal "Re: Sun Type 5 keyboard f*-up" (Nov 18, 16:52) References: <1100786622.3918.167.camel@fortran> <1100791579.2231.8.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> <1100793144.3918.171.camel@fortran> Message-ID: <10411181921.ZM16027@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 18 2004, 16:52, Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > Brilliant! That is extremely useful general-purpose information. I also > happen to have what in Norwegian is called isopropanol, I can only > assume that they are the same? Yes, same thing. > Again, thank you, that info will come in handy. > > I have some insanely dirty SGI KB's I got recently, too. Unless something like salt water, red wine (Mateus Ros? is bad too, one of my friends discovered), etc has got in, there's an easier and less dramatic way to clean them. Usually the dirt is (1) general dirt on the keys, (2) biscuit crumbs, paper clips, hair, etc, under and in between the keytops, and (3) general dirt anddiscoloration of the case and cable. Take off the keytops (you can get a little puller to make this easier, but if you take the cover off the keyboard you can do it with your fingers). Use a vacuum cleaner and a small paint brush to remove the crud around the keys. Clean the cable with a small amount of white spirit on a paper kitchen towel, and finsh off with a dry towel (optionally add a very small amount of furniture polish). Clean the case with a damp cloth and detergent or kitchen-surface cleaner (don't forget to rinse it off!). I use one of two methods to clean the keycaps, depending on how many I do at once. One way is to dunk them in a small washing-up basin (or a large kitchen bowl) with some mild detergent (I use Flash, which is a non-foaming and fairly gentle floor cleaner) and swish them around for a while, then pour out the liquid, dump the keycaps into a towel, and dry them off. If I do it that way, I often spray a little (very little) Mr Sheen (liquid furniture polish) onto the wet keycaps just before I dry them; it leaves an almost imperceptible coating of wax that prevents them getting dirty again so quickly. The other way is to put them into a pillowcase, tie the open end off so they can't escape, and sling the pillowcase in the (clothes) washing machine. Dry in the tumble drier (still in the pillowcase), with your preferred fabric conditioner (same effect as the Mr Sheen above). You can get brownie points from She Who Must Be Obeyed by doing this as part of a small load of the regular laundry :-) Liz, of course, is used to finding sprayed-painted metallic parts curing in the oven, pillowcases rattling quietly in the tumble drier, and circuit boards in the dishwasher (don't use the hot drying cycle, dry using IPA and compressed air). That's got me looking at the five keyboard around me. Yuk. Time to find that pillowcase, I fear, at least for three of them :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Nov 18 13:32:52 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: Sun Type 5 keyboard f*-up In-Reply-To: <200411181630.iAIGUlas000470@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200411181630.iAIGUlas000470@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <200411181942.OAA15849@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> The trick is to chase the water afterwards [...] > "chase the water" - can you explain? does that mean after the > dishwasher spray the top of it liberally with isopropanol? No, not quite. Now, I haven't doine this with electronics myself. But I think I understand the issues to an extent. Thing is, you don't want to just let the water dry on the device. You can do that if you are using _very_ pure water and have rinsed the device _thoroughly_, because then the water will just evaporate and that's it. But if you're using tap water, it contains dissolved salts and suchlike. (Even soft tap water does - just in lower quantity, and to some extent different salts.) And if you just air-dry electronics, these salts get left behind in a layer on the surface. _Sometimes_ this causes no trouble, but if the salts happen to be conductive enough (for values of "enough" that depend on factors beyond the scope of this discussion), or in some cases if they're insulative enough (for example if they're being deposited on bare conductor pads used by a switch), they will interfere. So you want to eliminate the water. This can be done mechanically, but it is quite difficult to get rid of enough of the water mechanically in most cases. So instead, you do a rinse with a compound that (a) is itself highly volatile, (b) does not come with dissolved salts and such the way tap water does, and (c) is miscible with water and thus will remove the water that's left on the surface. In the chemistry lab, when washing glassware, we used acetone for this (maybe they still do - I don't know). I wouldn't want to use acetone on electronics, because too many of the plastics and other compounds used in electronics are too soluble in acetone. But isopropanol also satisfies the conditions I sketched (though slightly less well) and is a far less effective solvent for things like chip housings and PC board resin. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From tomj at wps.com Wed Nov 17 16:31:51 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: DEC colours In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041116140853.0371e6f0@pc> References: <158.43cd5d5d.2eca5f71@aol.com> <16793.7502.363129.427065@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <005001c4cb9b$89c3daa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <6.2.0.14.2.20041116140853.0371e6f0@pc> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Nov 2004, John Foust wrote: > RGB color is far more complex than that. What about the monitor > you're displaying it on? Consider the various phosphor blends > and the implicit or customizable settings of color temperature > in the monitor. RGB "White" isn't "white". .... > Reproducing a finish on metal or plastic must be even more > complicated than anything computer-based. Your perception of > the appearance of the finish is potentially dependent on all > sorts of specular and multi-layer-reflective and transmissive > colorings. Color is the same as food. Totally subjective! And paints also derive effects -- often NOT subtle -- depending on their depth, literally -- thickness; partially transmissive partially reflective, and the texture changes the color and the subjective emotional response to the whole thing. Think "food". But likely for squirting color on an old computer, "close is close enough". From tomj at wps.com Wed Nov 17 16:28:00 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: time machine... In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041116151930.0099b480@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041116151930.0099b480@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >* Comark is a company in Woburn MA I ported CP/M-80 for (to their > >Multibuss machine) then later -- bargain of bargains for them -- > >I did a full port of MSDOS 2.x or 3.x to their 8086 multibuss > >system, in exchange for one. THat machine was in the hands of > >Don Kulha, FidoNet #125 I think, recently deceased, Napa area, > >no idea what happened to it. > Do you have any idea if this version of MS-DOS will work on the Intel Multibus machines? If it does, I'd love to get a copy. Well if it did it wouldn't help much since no one on earth detectably has a copy. But writing MSDOS BIOS's is as easy as CP/M's. I can't believe that docu isn't on the web somewhere. It's just a jump table with that stupid datablock of parms for the linked IO list (that never got implemented in my 'lifetime'). Is no one writing BIOSs for the piles of S100 (cpm) and multibuss (dos) hardware out there? I no longer have my microsoft MSDOS OEM kit (...) but you could take any MSDOS (not PCDOS) pre 4 and make your own. The MSDOS.SYS links to IO.SYS with a jump table ala CP/M! I wish I had my MSDOS stuff, towards the end I used to port MSDOSs to virgin hardware in three (3) days including the EPROM bootstrap and proprietary formatter, DMA and all. The Comark machine had, if I recall, an Intel SBC 8/16, but their own flop, hard disk, etc controller. I forget who's memory. I would like that machine back too but fat chance of finding THAT thing. It was big and ugly and unlovable to those who didn't know it. The Comark chassis had an "IO" subchassis above the horizontally-mounted M'buss chassis. The cardcage had a puller and a pusher XL fan, the IO section had its own two (2) XL fans, and I added an automotive aircleaner assembly (!) hanging off the side to avoid dust bunnies on the chips. It sounded like a jet plane and almost created lift, but it's mass at some 75 lbs would have been hard to overcome even with more XL fans. From tomj at wps.com Wed Nov 17 16:41:33 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: HP 2113B service manual / schematics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, Peter Brown wrote: > The machine had run just fine for about two hours before the cap decided to > break. This has happened to me before on another piece of ageing electronics > - it is probably worth checking all old electronics for this type of > surpressor capacitor and replacing them BEFORE turning the equipment on. Glad no real harm was done! The flip-side of being prepared: Under carefully controlled laboratory environmental conditions of temperature, humidity, illumination and other parameters the organism does what it damn well pleases. From tomj at wps.com Wed Nov 17 16:34:50 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: Stump the Historians at the Computer History Museum this Friday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Nov 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Here's a fun event. Have you got a computer history question that's been > burning for an answer? Come ask it this Friday to a panel of computer > historians at the Computer History Museum. Nahh, I'm lazy impatient and too far away. Anyone know what CroMemCo is short for? I'd forgotten it was originally StudlyCaps until I recently looked at a '76 DDJ. From tomj at wps.com Wed Nov 17 16:29:07 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: Sanyo Items Offered In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041116152113.0099d7d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041116152113.0099d7d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >On Sun, 14 Nov 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > >> Joe Rigdon LOVES those Sany MBC550 computers! Send it to him...I'll be > >> he'll be glad to pay for shipping, maybe even throw in a few bucks on top. > > > >Now I thought *I* was crazy! :-) > > Tom, Sellam was being sarcastic. D'OH! > >I found the 555's to be let's say quite unlovable. > My opinion too. I think the phrase is, "sanitary landfill". From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Nov 18 14:16:18 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: DEC colours In-Reply-To: References: <158.43cd5d5d.2eca5f71@aol.com> <16793.7502.363129.427065@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <005001c4cb9b$89c3daa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <6.2.0.14.2.20041116140853.0371e6f0@pc> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041118141442.037b2568@pc> At 04:31 PM 11/17/2004, Tom Jennings wrote: >Color is the same as food. Totally subjective! >Think "food". >But likely for squirting color on an old computer, "close is close enough". Exactly! How do you think I was able to spout off about all the complications of color reproduction on computers, if I wasn't an hourly consultant who gets paid to do so? My ability to rant on any topic equals "food". - John From tomj at wps.com Thu Nov 18 14:44:52 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: Picture from 1954 Popular Mechanics Magazine In-Reply-To: <1100637430.3918.128.camel@fortran> References: <3.0.6.32.20041116152745.009914c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1100637430.3918.128.camel@fortran> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Nov 2004, Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > On Tue, 2004-11-16 at 15:27 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > > Take a look at this Totally fake. Funny though, just not to this discerning crowd! :-) That's all power control junk in the panel. The wheel is just silly. From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Nov 18 14:49:16 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: Picture from 1954 Popular Mechanics Magazine References: <3.0.6.32.20041116152745.009914c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1100637430.3918.128.camel@fortran> Message-ID: <16797.2764.735114.212880@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Jennings writes: Tom> On Tue, 16 Nov 2004, Tore S Bekkedal wrote: >> On Tue, 2004-11-16 at 15:27 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > Take a look at >> this >> Tom> Totally fake. Funny though, just not to this discerning crowd! Tom> :-) Tom> That's all power control junk in the panel. The wheel is just Tom> silly. That's not what Snope says -- the original photo is a submarine trainer. That fits -- two wheels on a sub makes sense (up/down and left/right). paul From tomj at wps.com Thu Nov 18 14:58:31 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: time machine... In-Reply-To: <20041117175250.D91799@shell.lmi.net> References: <20041117175250.D91799@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > On Tue, 16 Nov 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > > making a 4FDC talk to Shugart 851's (plus my 801's and 851's) > > (solution: the data-separator add-on card for some Tandy Model > > x computer, a daughter board that fits under the 1771 chip) > > The data separator was made by Percom to fit what we now refer to > as the "model 1" (When it came out, it was just called the "TRS-80") > > They also made the "Doubler", which was later copied by Tandy. Aha! Thanks, I never would have remembered that. Also, I want to say that everything and anything I extract from the piles (software, manuals not on bitsavers, etc) will be made openly available. It will take some weeks, as the stuff will be shipped a box a week or so. The manuals and printed software listings are coming this week. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Nov 18 15:03:13 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: Stump the Historians at the Computer History Museum this Friday In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > On Tue, 16 Nov 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > Here's a fun event. Have you got a computer history question that's been > > burning for an answer? Come ask it this Friday to a panel of computer > > historians at the Computer History Museum. > > Nahh, I'm lazy impatient and too far away. > > Anyone know what CroMemCo is short for? > > I'd forgotten it was originally StudlyCaps until I recently > looked at a '76 DDJ. Was it ever StudlyCpas? I've only ever seen it as one word. Anyway, CROthers MEMorial Hall was the dorm at Stanford where the founders of Cromemco used to live. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From tomj at wps.com Thu Nov 18 15:04:30 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: was: 10 year rule // reliability In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041117210351.008b4290@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041117210351.008b4290@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> I have yet to see an consumer OS that did not crash [...] > > I've never had a crash on my three HP 200 LXs! I've never > had a crash on my Rubicon CPM-86 system or either of my HP CPM > systems. I never had a crash on any of the ISIS systems but I > guess those aren't consumer systems. It's funny what time will do. In reading through old DDJs and BYTEs (1976) it occurred to me, and was only slightly explicit at the time, that RELIABILITY was the real issue. CP/M-80 wasn't all that sophisticated at the time, in technology terms, it's major advantage was that IT WAS EXCRUCIATINGLY RELIABLE in an era that didn't know what that meant (mostly). It was also appropriate technology; it was a decent subset that fit on "most" (8080/Z80) machines. Very, very well chosen set of parameters for a product. There was so much vaporware (I know, I bought some of it!) at the time it was practically normal; one of DDJ's major rants was on ripoffs and reliability. Kildall's stuff, and Tom Pittman's, were pleasant exceptions. There were many, but there was more crap than good pound for pound in those early S100 days. From Pres at macro-inc.com Thu Nov 18 15:12:07 2004 From: Pres at macro-inc.com (Ed Kelleher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: Picture from 1954 Popular Mechanics Magazine In-Reply-To: References: <1100637430.3918.128.camel@fortran> <3.0.6.32.20041116152745.009914c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1100637430.3918.128.camel@fortran> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041118160516.0281b7b8@192.168.0.1> At 03:44 PM 11/18/2004, you wrote: > > On Tue, 2004-11-16 at 15:27 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > > > Take a look at this > > >Totally fake. Funny though, just not to this discerning crowd! :-) > >That's all power control junk in the panel. The wheel is just silly. Acutally, not so silly. Looks somewhat like the Manuvering Room on a nuclear submarine, about 10'x10' in size. The Steam Plant Control panel had wheels IIRC to throttle steam, and there was a Reactor Plant Control Panel and Electric Plant Control Panel immediately adjacent - pretty much as shown. The EPCP though had a big mimic bus of the boats electric port and starboard AC and DC power systems. Caveat to any boat sailors on the list - I used to be qualified, but have lost too many brain cells in the 30 years since my last patrol. Ed K. From tomj at wps.com Thu Nov 18 15:12:08 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: Stump the Historians at the Computer History Museum this Friday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > On Tue, 16 Nov 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > Here's a fun event. Have you got a computer history question that's been > > burning for an answer? Come ask it this Friday to a panel of computer > > historians at the Computer History Museum. > > Nahh, I'm lazy impatient and too far away. (I hope you realize I was joking about that. I often get in trouble for flip remarks that are in fact sarcastic jokes. They don't always work as well in email...! It sounds like a good event.) From tomj at wps.com Thu Nov 18 15:16:12 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: Stump the Historians at the Computer History Museum this Friday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Nov 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Anyone know what CroMemCo is short for? > > > > I'd forgotten it was originally StudlyCaps until I recently > > looked at a '76 DDJ. > > Was it ever StudlyCpas? I've only ever seen it as one word. Well, I remembered it after I saw it repeated this week in DDJ. It could be that is the ONE reference to a StudlyCaps literation and I'm remembering THAT as my old memory. StudlyCPAs, that's another subject, and I've been yelled add for off-topic before. And oxymoronic from the CPAs that I've used, though wonderful people they were (really). > Anyway, CROthers MEMorial Hall was the dorm at Stanford where the founders > of Cromemco used to live. Could very well be! Now *that* is trivia! From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Nov 18 15:21:02 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: Stump the Historians at the Computer History Museum this Friday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1100812862.13043.5.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-11-18 at 13:12 -0800, Tom Jennings wrote: > On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > > > On Tue, 16 Nov 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > > > Here's a fun event. Have you got a computer history question that's been > > > burning for an answer? Come ask it this Friday to a panel of computer > > > historians at the Computer History Museum. > > > > Nahh, I'm lazy impatient and too far away. > > (I hope you realize I was joking about that. I often get in > trouble for flip remarks that are in fact sarcastic jokes. They > don't always work as well in email...! It sounds like a good > event.) I reckon we should ask them if the ten year rule needs changing on this list or not... ;) Ever seen 'scanners'? Cue exploding heads everywhere... From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Nov 18 16:44:50 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: Picture from 1954 Popular Mechanics Magazine In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20041116152745.009914c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1100637430.3918.128.camel@fortran> Message-ID: <20041118144203.U11295@shell.lmi.net> > That's all power control junk in the panel. The wheel is just silly. A "home computer" SHOULD have a "game controller". Hmmmm. I have an extra truck steering wheel ('59 Willys FC170), and some potentiometers,...... From vcf at siconic.com Thu Nov 18 17:08:51 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: Stump the Historians at the Computer History Museum this Friday In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Nov 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > > Anyway, CROthers MEMorial Hall was the dorm at Stanford where the founders > > of Cromemco used to live. > > Could very well be! Now *that* is trivia! That was one of the questions we used in one of the earliest Nerd Trivia Challenge games at the VCF. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From gordon at gjcp.net Thu Nov 18 17:45:09 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: time machine... In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20041116151930.0099b480@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <419D3405.8030408@gjcp.net> Tom Jennings wrote: > and I added an automotive aircleaner assembly (!) hanging off > the side to avoid dust bunnies on the chips. It sounded like My mate who has a PDP-11/73 (we think, it's an OEM thing) has two RL02s. The intake air filters have been replaced by cut-down Citroen XM air filters. The rubber surround is *just* the right width, and I had an old one sitting in the back of the car last time I went round... Gordon. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Nov 16 06:14:36 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: Sperry anyone? In-Reply-To: <20041116061414.91470.qmail@web81009.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041116061414.91470.qmail@web81009.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1100607276.8912.27.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-11-15 at 22:14 -0800, nospam212-cctalk@yahoo.com wrote: > Mine has the Sperry label as it was made before Sperry became Unisys. > Later ones had the Unisys label. I have a 5000/50 I picked up from a > company I worked for at the time that went out of business. It was an > NCR Tower that Sperry/Unisys put their label on. We had a later model > 5000/55 but a friend grabbed that one, little laster processor and > other upgrades. They had a 5000/60 which was by a different company > that I would have loved to have picked up but it required 220 power > which I couldn't provide at the time and was too big for me to house > back then as well. Today yes, 13 years ago no. A shame as it was a > dual processor model. I'm just digging through ten year old emails here - apparently the Unisys line went something like: - 5000/20 and 5000/40 - early 16-bit 68010 @8 or 16 MHz, MFM/RLL controller. - 5000/30 and 5000/50 - 32-bit 68020 @16 MHz, MFM/RLL controller. The /30 has room for two memory cards, the /50 for up to four. The /50 also has room for one more internal disk (full heigth) and more Multibus bays. - 5000/35 and 5000/55 - 32-bit 68020 @25MHz, SCSI controller. Otherwise, the same as /30 and /50. - 5000/60, /65, /80... - Multi-processor (master-slave, not SMP). Never seen one of these. I don't know if there was an NCR equivalent to the multi processor ones; not heard of one. I'm sure my Tower has an '030 and not an '020 as the main CPU. I'm also pretty sure it only has two memory slots (like a 5000/3x) but definitely has two drives fitted internally (more like a 5000/5x). Maybe I'll see if I can bring it indoors later and then try and get it going again after it's had a few days to acclimatise... > Still have manuals and install media for the 5000/50. Ooh. Wonder if that'd work with my Tower? I know the binaries were generally interchangeable between NCR and Unisys models, but if I'm remembering the '030 right, then my system's something other than a 5000/50 equivalent. > Was thinking about putting it on my network at home again. Well at some point I want to have my one running at the museum; I don't have the space to seriously use it here (plus they suck up a lot of power) Mine was a development platform for the XVT toolkit, so it's loaded up with X Windows software; I remember hooking it up to a LAN and running X sessions on remote X terminals from it ten years ago. Apart from the power useage it was a nice little server back then :) > Anyway, nice to see my 5000/50 is now worth $5-6. :) Funny how some of these multi user Unix systems don't fetch much. I'm surprised they don't go for more money just for the coolness factor (I mean it's a proper machine rather than just running Linux on an old PC :-) cheers Jules -- The most secure computer in the world is one not connected to the internet. That's why I recommend NTL. From gordon at gjcp.net Thu Nov 18 17:47:42 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: Picture from 1954 Popular Mechanics Magazine In-Reply-To: <20041118144203.U11295@shell.lmi.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20041116152745.009914c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1100637430.3918.128.camel@fortran> <20041118144203.U11295@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <419D349E.7020100@gjcp.net> Fred Cisin wrote: >>That's all power control junk in the panel. The wheel is just silly. > > > A "home computer" SHOULD have a "game controller". > > Hmmmm. I have an extra truck steering wheel ('59 Willys FC170), > and some potentiometers,...... > Always wanted to make a *proper* stick and rudder pedal set, with proper throttle, flaps and toe brakes for the FlightGear simulator... Gordon. From pat at computer-refuge.org Thu Nov 18 18:27:12 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: Sperry anyone? In-Reply-To: <1100607276.8912.27.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <20041116061414.91470.qmail@web81009.mail.yahoo.com> <1100607276.8912.27.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200411181927.13217.pat@computer-refuge.org> Jules Richardson declared on Tuesday 16 November 2004 07:14 am: > > Still have manuals and install media for the 5000/50. > > Ooh. Wonder if that'd work with my Tower? I know the binaries were > generally interchangeable between NCR and Unisys models, but if I'm > remembering the '030 right, then my system's something other than a > 5000/50 equivalent. >From what I remember from talking to UNISYS, install media was (at least supposed to be) keyed to the serial number of the machine it shipped with. Not sure how true it was, but thats what UNISYS said to me. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 18 18:25:01 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: <1396.192.168.0.116.1100781569.squirrel@office.brothom.nl> from "Bert Thomas" at Nov 18, 4 01:39:29 pm Message-ID: > I've read in the past that Tony called someone a whimp cause he said he > didn't dare to reverse engineer a 4 layer board or something like that. I It may hgave been somewhat tongue-in-cheek :-). I've done things a _lot_ more complicated than a 4 layer board and lived to tell the tale. But then I've done rather a lot of this... It's got to the stage here where for a simple board (say a PC I/O card with one known 'big chip' and some glue logic) it takes perhaps an afternoon to produce a complete, annotated, schematic. But against that, something like the HP9100B calculator took 6 _months_... However, I would always claim a schematic can be produced (direct chip-on-board being a possible exception!). And therefore if the choice is between having to draw out a schematic or not repairing the machine, the former always wins! > wonder, if _that_ is easy, how does one solve problems like traces that > run under components? If its a simple and cheap component, it could be > removed and replaced later. In generaly you trace connections with a meter, not just by eye (and don't worry about scrapping off the soldermask to see which of the half-dozen traces coming out from under an IC corresponds to the one you're tracing!). So traces under components (or on middle layers of the board) don't worry me too much. But you may well have to desolder some components -- as I mentioned in the other message, you must remove anything that tests as a dead short. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 18 18:34:41 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: time machine... In-Reply-To: <419D3405.8030408@gjcp.net> from "Gordon JC Pearce" at Nov 18, 4 11:45:09 pm Message-ID: > My mate who has a PDP-11/73 (we think, it's an OEM thing) has two RL02s. > The intake air filters have been replaced by cut-down Citroen XM air Which model of XM (I can't believe they all take the same air filter, I know for a fact that the petrol and diesel BXs take totally different air filters, for example). I might well want to give this a go... I am already know to be mad by the local Citroen dealer. I'm the guy who orders all sorts of little parts rather than a complete assembly (my time doesn't cost anything, so it's worth me rebuilting a unit rather than replacing it). The thought of getting an air filter and telling them it's for my computer seems rather fun :-) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 18 18:19:37 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: <1100780776.12464.17.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Nov 18, 4 12:26:16 pm Message-ID: > > Has anyone got any useful tips for tracing out schematics? The SMPSU in > this 'ere NCR Tower is toast, but it's a complex beastie as it's pretty > huge and spread over two large boards. > > Is copying down component locations (but in their schematic form) to a > sheet of paper the same sort of size as the PCB a good place to start? > (Which can then be tweaked into a more sensible-looking schematic later) I wouldn't do it that way. I ahve an aversion to copying things out -- firstly it takes up time that could be better spent hacking, and secondly it's a good place to introduce errors. > > What about making a list of every component on the board and how many > tracks leave it at each terminal, which can then be used for sanity > checking? > > I'm not used to drawing out schematics for something this complex, so on > smaller items I normally just muddle through somehow :) At least this > one's only 2 layer... OK, some tips... Ask if anyone has the schematic :-). Seriously, you don't want to spend time drawing out a diagram to find somebody has already done it. Of course you need to compare the time taken in drawing out the diagram with the time taken in getting a copy of one already drawn (in my case, it would often be quicker to do the former!). Make a list of at least the main components on the board. It's probably not necessary to list every resistor (at least not when you've got used to drawing out schemaitcs), but list every chip (or section of a chip), the main transistors, etc. Use manufacturers designations (U1, Q7, etc) if they're silk-screended on the board. If not, then either label things (You can get little numbered stickly labels about 8mm in diameter from stationery chops) on the board/components, or make a sketch (photo?) of the board and label that. You'll get a list like : U1 a b c d 74LS00 U2 Z80A-CPU U3 2764 U4 74LS138 U5 a b c d e f 74LS04 and so on. When you've drawn a component, cross it off the list. That way you don't keep on drwaing out the same thing... Identify (at least) the ground and prefereably power rails. Several times I've found unexplained connections between what should be unrelated circuits which turn out to be extra (low noise, etc) power rails!. In the case of SMPUs, remeber there will be 2 grounds -- the 0V on the output side and the 'hot ground' -- the -ve side of the mains smoothing capacitor (normally). Use different symbols and don't confuse them. Think what should be on the board, and try to identify the main stages before you start drawing things out. This might involve making rough sketches of part of the circuit. Identify external connections as far as possible You _must_ have data on all the components. Well, 'must' is a strong word, and I've drawn out boards containing custom chips that I had no data on. But working without data -- at least pinouts and prefereably application circuits -- is hard. The application circuit is handy, if, e.g. you have a chopper control IC that has an external RC network to set the frequency. It's a good bet that network is in your supply too -- find it. 'Open circuit' all components that would look like a dead short on your meter. This probably means removing all transformers and inductors (the ones in SMPSUs have resistances well less than 1 ohm!), sense resistors, fuses, swithces, relays, and so on. You will have to desolder the transformers and remove them totally, things like resistors are best lifted at one end only so you don't forget where they go!. Remove any daughterboarrds and handle them separately. You should be able to figure out the signals to the pins, for example. This, again, may involve desoldering. Transformers -- particularly multi-tapped ones -- are hard. You really want to indentify the sequence of pins on each winding. Sometimes carefully inspecting the component will help. Sometimes you have to deduce it based on your understanding of the circuit when you've drawn it! Complex components (e.g. microprocessors) are a lot easier than simple ones (e.g. resistors). The former are only used in one way. The latter could be almost anything. Assinging signal names is hard. You will want to name signals that go off-sheet, and maybe signals on the same sheet if they're key signals in the design. But to give a signal a name you really have to know what it's for. That means you have to understand the whole thing, And you should put titles on the main blocks of the schematic too, but again this means you understand what's going on. OK, ready to start. I would start at the mains input. Trace where it goes (probably through a filter, then a bridge, then to smoothing capacitors). You do the tracing with a _good_ ohmmeter, combined with visual inspection (where does the track seem to be going!) and knowledge (the emitter of the chopper transsitor probably goes to the 'hot ground' via a sense resistor). Find the chopper control IC, find how it's powered, how it drives the chopper, and so on. Then find the feedback loop (votlage regulation loop). You will _never_ successfully trace a schematic you don't understnad. You will find some suprises. I've had circuits that seem to make no sense at all, but do so after a lot of thought. If you get something like this, check and check again that you've not missed something... Personally I'd not pick an SMPSU as my first serious schematic to trace, but you can't always choose what you have to do :-) > > > Aside: the PSU doesn't blow fuses, but is totally dead and doesn't even > attempt to start. I found a dead 5W 10 ohm resistor (open circuit, no > discolouration) in the live feed upstream of the bridge, which seemed > like an odd component failure. I had a spare in the junk pile so > replaced it, and that one immediately went the same way. This is presumably on the mains side of the PSU. Can you find any dead shorts with an ohmmeter? Is there a dead short across the output of the bridge, for example. -tony From aek at spies.com Thu Nov 18 19:28:51 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: HP2113B power supply documentation Message-ID: <20041119012851.CD77E4584@spies.com> www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/1000/1000_MEF_EngrRef/92851-90001_Jun79_9.pdf From kenziem at sympatico.ca Thu Nov 18 20:42:53 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: Moore mycroterm Message-ID: <200411182142.56714.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Does anyone know anything about a Moore mycroterm? Moore was taken over by Siemens, It is 2 beige boxes with handles, shorter and squatter than a Compaq luggable. I've been told that it has Motorla cpu. I haven't been able to get it past my wife yet to have a closer look. It came my way in exchange for a few 286's which are going back into service. -- Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 Machines to trade http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/trade.html Open Source Weekend http://www.osw.ca From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Nov 18 21:14:05 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200411190315.WAA17365@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > You will _never_ successfully trace a schematic you don't understnad. I think that's a bit of an overstatement. There have been devices that I understood not a lick until I sat and studied the traced-out schematic for some time. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From chenmel at earthlink.net Thu Nov 18 23:02:17 2004 From: chenmel at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: References: <1396.192.168.0.116.1100781569.squirrel@office.brothom.nl> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 00:25:01 +0000 (GMT),Tony Duel wrote: >However, I would always claim a schematic can be produced (direct >chip-on-board being a possible exception!). The other 'newer' exception would be ball-grid-array packaged parts. Fortunately, the most interesting things to reverse-engineer are still mostly through-hole with conventional DIP packaging, etc. From gordon at gjcp.net Fri Nov 19 03:46:23 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: time machine... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <419DC0EF.90101@gjcp.net> Tony Duell wrote: >>My mate who has a PDP-11/73 (we think, it's an OEM thing) has two RL02s. >>The intake air filters have been replaced by cut-down Citroen XM air > > > Which model of XM (I can't believe they all take the same air filter, I > know for a fact that the petrol and diesel BXs take totally different air > filters, for example). I might well want to give this a go... Series 1 2.0Si, LE-Jetronic, non-turbo. The space it fits in at the front of the drive is a little tight, but I cut a tall enough bit off the filter and it *just* squeezes in. How well it actually works I don't know. > I am already know to be mad by the local Citroen dealer. I'm the guy who > orders all sorts of little parts rather than a complete assembly (my time > doesn't cost anything, so it's worth me rebuilting a unit rather than > replacing it). The thought of getting an air filter and telling them it's > for my computer seems rather fun :-) Heh. I went in to get bits for my 1989 Citroen CX 22TRS, and the spotty oik behind the parts counter had never ever *heard* of those. He *did* know that some had "that funny air suspension that goes up and down" but he wasn't allowed to work on those. It's funny, there seems to be a correlation between retro computing and unusual cars, doesn't there. This thread is about to go off-topic... Gordon. From melamy at earthlink.net Fri Nov 19 05:31:44 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics Message-ID: <29841623.1100863904278.JavaMail.root@huey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> yes, those mains light switches are complicated... -----Original Message----- From: der Mouse Sent: Nov 18, 2004 10:14 PM To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Subject: Re: tracing out schematics > You will _never_ successfully trace a schematic you don't understnad. I think that's a bit of an overstatement. There have been devices that I understood not a lick until I sat and studied the traced-out schematic for some time. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Nov 19 08:03:09 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1100872989.14225.31.camel@weka.localdomain> > On Fri, 2004-11-19 at 00:19 +0000, Tony Duell wrote: Thanks for all the tracing tips :) > OK, ready to start. I would start at the mains input. Trace where it goes > (probably through a filter, then a bridge, then to smoothing capacitors). > You do the tracing with a _good_ ohmmeter, combined with visual > inspection (where does the track seem to be going!) and knowledge (the > emitter of the chopper transsitor probably goes to the 'hot ground' via a > sense resistor). Find the chopper control IC, find how it's powered, how > it drives the chopper, and so on. Then find the feedback loop (votlage > regulation loop). You will _never_ successfully trace a schematic you > don't understnad. There's a handful of ICs on the main board (I'm not looking at the secondary board yet, which I suspect is more to do with battery charging than anything): Pair of LM339's, an LM358, an SG3846, an SOC640B, and one labelled "M8852 6-1003 876". No idea what that last one is/does - any ideas what it is? I suspect the SOC chip is an opto-isolator (it only has 6 pins and is curiously in a white package). Not sure about the SG chip but I haven't tried looking it up yet - quite possibly just another amp of some sort. This thing has no less than 8 chopper transistors, arranged in something like an H-bridge configuration as typically found in motor speed controllers. > Personally I'd not pick an SMPSU as my first serious schematic to trace, > but you can't always choose what you have to do :-) Well it'd be nice to get the machie running again. As I recall there was no obvious failure, just switched off one day, switched on the next and it was totally dead. Hopefully whatever failed in the PSU didn't take out too much other stuff with it! :) > > Aside: the PSU doesn't blow fuses, but is totally dead and doesn't even > > attempt to start. I found a dead 5W 10 ohm resistor (open circuit, no > > discolouration) in the live feed upstream of the bridge, which seemed > > like an odd component failure. I had a spare in the junk pile so > > replaced it, and that one immediately went the same way. > > This is presumably on the mains side of the PSU. Can you find any dead > shorts with an ohmmeter? Is there a dead short across the output of the > bridge, for example. Nope, nothing appears to be shorted at all - or at least I've checked the obvious stuff; bridge, chopper transistors, filter caps, power diodes etc. - but the fact that this resistor in the mains feed seems to just croak straight away seems odd. I'll see how it goes... cheers Jules From brad at heeltoe.com Fri Nov 19 08:25:53 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: Stump the Historians at the Computer History Museum this Friday In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:08:51 PST." Message-ID: <200411191425.iAJEPrW4022093@mwave.heeltoe.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Thu, 18 Nov 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > >> > Anyway, CROthers MEMorial Hall was the dorm at Stanford where the founders >> > of Cromemco used to live. >> >> Could very well be! Now *that* is trivia! > >That was one of the questions we used in one of the earliest Nerd Trivia >Challenge games at the VCF. speaking of trivia, does anyone know what happened to the sigma computer that was originally used in the community memory project? I seem to remember (around 1976) looking for a building (and here's the triva part :-) in San Franciso which housed something called "project 1". I was young and foolish at the time and I don't think I ever found it. But it was a fun trip around the bay area anyway :-) I think I started that day at SAIL. what a magic place that was. back in the day... when ddj was published in newsprint! -brad From news at computercollector.com Fri Nov 19 10:45:07 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: Stump the Historians at the Computer History Museum this Friday In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041119164507.95929.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> I'd like to know what the "C" stands for in EMC. It's not "company" or "corp.", that much I know. The E and M are for Dick Egan and Roger Marino -- the two original founders. As I understand it, the "C" was someone else, sort of the fifth Beatle! I know many early EMC employees but no one seems to know the answer to this one. (Part two of this question is, "What was EMC's original industry," and the answer is furniture! They got into memory, and then storage, quite by accident.) --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 18 Nov 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > > > > Anyway, CROthers MEMorial Hall was the dorm at Stanford where the > founders > > > of Cromemco used to live. > > > > Could very well be! Now *that* is trivia! > > That was one of the questions we used in one of the earliest Nerd Trivia > Challenge games at the VCF. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers > ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org > ] > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit the museums directory and read about past events at our web site: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 585 readers and counting! From trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Fri Nov 19 10:46:31 2004 From: trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (trash3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: dec stuff on e*ay Message-ID: <041119114631.460@splab.cas.neu.edu> Just happened to look at what is current. a couple of infoservers and a couple of vax 4000 vlc systems. amazing what gets put up for bid. Joe Heck From allain at panix.com Fri Nov 19 11:15:23 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: DEC colours References: <158.43cd5d5d.2eca5f71@aol.com><16793.7502.363129.427065@gargle.gargle.HOWL><005001c4cb9b$89c3daa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06><6.2.0.14.2.20041116140853.0371e6f0@pc> Message-ID: <009c01c4ce5b$5d4ba1c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Color is the same as food. Totally subjective! Gosh, will this thread never die? Well, it's been interesting if overlong. > And paints also derive effects -- often NOT subtle -- > depending on their depth, literally -- thickness; partially Properly administered paint doesn't allow transmission to the layer beneath it. . . . A conclusion seems to be that color perception (human or machine) is not mathematically rigorous with respect to a true chromatograph of a thing, and this spins out to complexity. Meanwhile somebody in, say, L.A. wants the color of someone's PDP-5 in Indiana. I think unscrewing panels and taking them to Lowe's is better than nothing, but that gets involved with some pretty uncalibrated machinery and untrained individuals. And what if Guy#2 doesn't have a Lowes, etc. Guess I'm just partial to what NASA does. Throw down a few reference colors next to the thing, take a color photograph, and postprocess the reference colors to what they should be. Although now I see that that is like the problem of describing right and left to an alien. Where do you get the reference colors in the first place? Guess one of us has to find a vendor for the three swatches to mail to requesting parties. John A. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Nov 19 11:29:25 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: Cool finds: Apple, Be, Commodore Message-ID: <1100885365.14225.44.camel@weka.localdomain> Picked up some nice stuff just now: Apple Powerbook 170 Apple /// + Profile unit Apple Lisa BeBox + manuals + software Commodore PET 3032 Commodore PET 8096-SK Only just got back so I'm only just about to start poking around inside things :) What's more impressive is that it all works apparently, apart from the Lisa... I'm sure I'll have questions to follow as I pull cases off... cheers Jules From allain at panix.com Fri Nov 19 11:29:54 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: OT: OS/X - X11 References: Message-ID: <00af01c4ce5d$66a53540$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I attended a presentation at AppleNYC last night to oogle all the neat hardware and hear about the Software but I failed to ask this question: Can you take an X11 application compiled for PPC/linux or /freeBSD and run it on the Mac? Think they said that their OS was Posix compliant but apps were'nt portable To other platforms. But From? I've seen a few X11 crashes in my day but I'll still give 'em a chance. John A. From williams.dan at gmail.com Fri Nov 19 11:33:36 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: dec stuff on e*ay In-Reply-To: <041119114631.460@splab.cas.neu.edu> References: <041119114631.460@splab.cas.neu.edu> Message-ID: <26c11a640411190933121f99a3@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:46:31 -0500, trash3@splab.cas.neu.edu wrote: > > Just happened to look at what is current. a couple of infoservers and > a couple of vax 4000 vlc systems. amazing what gets put up for bid. > > Joe Heck > > Thre's more in the UK as well a 7810 and a 4000/500a from different people. They seem to be like buses. Dan From cb at mythtech.net Fri Nov 19 11:55:34 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: OT: OS/X - X11 Message-ID: >I attended a presentation at AppleNYC last night to oogle all >the neat hardware and hear about the Software but I failed to >ask this question: > Can you take an X11 application compiled for PPC/linux or > /freeBSD and run it on the Mac? > >Think they said that their OS was Posix compliant but apps >were'nt portable To other platforms. But From? > >I've seen a few X11 crashes in my day but I'll still give 'em >a chance. I would think there is a good chance. There is an X11 setup for OS X. You can download it from various places online, or it comes with OS X.3 (but I don't believe it is part of the default install, so you have to choose to install it). I know OpenOffice was ported to OS X for use with X11. I just don't know how much was involved beyond a recompile. -chris From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Nov 19 11:56:11 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: OT: OS/X - X11 In-Reply-To: <00af01c4ce5d$66a53540$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <00af01c4ce5d$66a53540$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <419E33BB.1090308@mdrconsult.com> John Allain wrote: > I attended a presentation at AppleNYC last night to oogle all > the neat hardware and hear about the Software but I failed to > ask this question: > Can you take an X11 application compiled for PPC/linux or > /freeBSD and run it on the Mac? > > Think they said that their OS was Posix compliant but apps > were'nt portable To other platforms. But From? Most anything that'll build on FreeBSD will build for OSX. Check out Xcode, Apple's GCC-based development environment, the "Fink" project, and the Apple OSX Download pages. IMO the X11 implementation isn't perfect, but then I guess it never is.... Considering that X11 is sharing the screen with an entirely different graphics subsystem, it's _very_ impressive. Doc From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri Nov 19 12:10:39 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:46 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: <29841623.1100863904278.JavaMail.root@huey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> References: <29841623.1100863904278.JavaMail.root@huey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200411191812.NAA29597@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >>> You will _never_ successfully trace a schematic you don't >>> understnad. >> I think that's a bit of an overstatement. There have been devices >> that I understood not a lick until I sat and studied the traced-out >> schematic for some time. > yes, those mains light switches are complicated... That's pretty funny. You see, the device I had in mind when I wrote that was in fact a mains light switch. (An X-10 remote-controllable one. But still a mains light switch.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Nov 19 13:02:25 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: BBN and SMS pictures. Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041119140225.00916510@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Here are some pictures of SOME of the stuff that I got last weekend. Besides a huge box of manuals that I've sent to Al, I found five BBN computers and I'm attempting to rescue enough of one to make a workable system for Tom Uban. Plus all the cards out of the other ones for him for spares. The BBN chassis is just too big to deal with but I got ALL the cables, the complete PSU (on the back panel!), the multibus card cage (and all the MB cards) and the switch card that lets all the CPUs talk to all the other CPUs. The BBN CPUs are odd in that they don't plug into a socket so the card cage isn't absolutely necessary. All the power and signals go through connectors on the front of the card. Warning: this is a SCRAP place and some of it isn't pretty! Here's also some pictures of the internals out of one of the 7 1/2 (yes half!) SMS Multibus computers that I rescued. These are pictures of the card cage and cards from the 1/2 computer. The scrappers had already started on it but I managed to find the cards, hard drive, floppy drive, etc. I'll post more pictures and details about these later. I also rescued three Masscomp Multibus systems but no pictures or anything for them yet. OOPS! I forgot, I also rescued four Intel 86/384 computers and a MN-26C radio compass on Saturday. More about those later too. Joe From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Nov 19 13:32:13 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: Difference between sun4, sun4c and sun4m subarchitectures Message-ID: <0411191932.AA17931@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Hello ClassicCmpers, Does anyone know what are the real technical differences between sun4, sun4c and sun4m subarchitectures of SPARC from the viewpoint of an OS kernel writer? I know that SunOS treats them as different kernel architectures while Net/OpenBSD has a unified SPARC kernel, as does Linux if I'm not mistaken. I'm trying to evaluate the pros and cons of the two approaches. Reason: a friend of mine is porting 4.3BSD-Quasijarus to SPARC and I'm trying to help him with the key architectural decisions. We have the SunOS 4.1.4 source. MS From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Nov 19 13:50:50 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: BBN and SMS pictures. More Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041119145050.008ae100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Added more pictures. Here are pictures of the Multibus cards that are used in the BBN. I don't think I mentioned it but the BBN has two card cages plus a place for the Switch card. As I mentioned earlier, the BBN card cage has no sockets and all the card connections are made through cables on the front edge of the cards. In addition to the BBN CPU card card, there's also a Multibus card cage for the IO controllers and such. These house an IKON DR-11W emulator card that's used to talk to the BBN CPU cards. A Burr-Brown 830-72 72 channel TTL I/O board . A CMC or Excelan EXOS201 Intelligent Ethernet controller board . A Data TRanslation DT5712E high performance A/D converter card and a NCR HPSIO card with 8 RS-232 ports and 1 parallel printer port. Joe Here are some pictures of SOME of the stuff that I got last weekend. Besides a huge box of manuals that I've sent to Al, I found five BBN computers and I'm attempting to rescue enough of one to make a workable system for Tom Uban. Plus all the cards out of the other ones for him for spares. The BBN chassis is just too big to deal with but I got ALL the cables, the complete PSU (on the back panel!), the multibus card cage (and all the MB cards) and the switch card that lets all the CPUs talk to all the other CPUs. The BBN CPUs are odd in that they don't plug into a socket so the card cage isn't absolutely necessary. All the power and signals go through connectors on the front of the card. Warning: this is a SCRAP place and some of it isn't pretty! Here's also some pictures of the internals out of one of the 7 1/2 (yes half!) SMS Multibus computers that I rescued. These are pictures of the card cage and cards from the 1/2 computer. The scrappers had already started on it but I managed to find the cards, hard drive, floppy drive, etc. I'll post more pictures and details about these later. I also rescued three Masscomp Multibus systems but no pictures or anything for them yet. OOPS! I forgot, I also rescued four Intel 86/384 computers and a MN-26C radio compass on Saturday. More about those later too. Joe From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Nov 19 14:40:36 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: 'ICE' Apple /// cards Message-ID: <1100896836.14242.56.camel@weka.localdomain> This Apple /// I picked up today has two boards in it: 1) Labelled "ICE KONAN ADAPTOR", with a ROM and 6116 RAM chip on it + a few 74xx logic chips. It's got a 26 pin header on board. 2) Labelled "ICE multiplexor host adapter". Has a 20 pin header on it, plus two (empty) 24 pin IC sockets (and a handful of LS logic). Any ideas what they are? The first *could* be a clone Profile controller I suppose - the owner swore that the Profile I got went with the Apple /// and not the Lisa. I get the impression he hadn't looked at either machine in years though so I suppose he could be wrong. The system itself has a large RAM expansion board in it, but otherwise looks to be stock. cheers Jules -- "We've had a lot of loonies around this place, but you're the first one who thought the sunrise was made out of stale beer. Now are you going to pick up your flute and leave, or shall I part your hair with this crowbar?" From aek at spies.com Fri Nov 19 14:57:49 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: BBN and SMS pictures. Message-ID: <20041119205749.BB66246E0@spies.com> > The BBN CPUs are odd in that they don't plug into a socket This is a BBN Butterfly system. The processors interconnect through a "Butterfly Switch" I have to check with the Computer Museum, but this may be the only surviving system. It's a drag you weren't able to save at least one of the chassis. try googling "bbn butterfly switch" Butterfly Switch A parallel processing topology from BBN Advanced Computers Inc., Cambridge, MA, that mimics a crossbar and provides high-speed switching of data between nodes. It can also be used to create a hypercube topology. From aek at spies.com Fri Nov 19 15:02:57 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: Stump the Historians at the Computer History Museum this Friday Message-ID: <20041119210257.AE0E446DE@spies.com> > does anyone know what happened to the sigma computer I asked Lee Felsenstein, and it was scrapped. Some of the documentation and a few of the magtapes are at the Computer History Museum. I don't know if enough of the software survives to get it running in simulation. Even if it does exist, according to the histories I've read of the Community Memory Project, the mass storage interfaces were custom. From aek at spies.com Fri Nov 19 15:05:20 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: 'ICE' Apple /// cards Message-ID: <20041119210520.1375B46E1@spies.com> Konan was a manufacturer of logic analyzers, and In Circuit Emulators. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Nov 19 15:14:35 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: BBN and SMS pictures. In-Reply-To: <20041119205749.BB66246E0@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041119161435.00911e40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:57 PM 11/19/04 -0800, you wrote: > >> The BBN CPUs are odd in that they don't plug into a socket > >This is a BBN Butterfly system. The processors interconnect through >a "Butterfly Switch" > >I have to check with the Computer Museum, but this may be the only >surviving system. That's what Tom says. He's been looking for one for years. It's a drag you weren't able to save at least one >of the chassis. Tom and I are working hard to try and find a way to get one or more of the chassis. The problem is that I don't have a truck AND the warehouse that I use to store and ship from is probably going to go away SOON. I no longer have access to the forklift so loading on a truck would be a problem even if I could get it there. These aren't complete chassis anyway, they're just the CPU sections. Joe > >try googling "bbn butterfly switch" > >Butterfly Switch >A parallel processing topology from BBN Advanced Computers Inc., Cambridge, MA, that mimics a crossbar and provides high-speed switching of data between nodes. It can also be used to create a hypercube topology. > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Nov 19 15:19:27 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: TZ30 question Message-ID: <419E635F.2010808@mdrconsult.com> I have 2 TZ30 drives that, instead of the short beep at power-up, squeal continuously as long as they're attached to the SCSI bus (RQZX1 TSCMP adapter). Attached to power but not on a SCSI chain, they beep like tey should. I honestly don't know if they work or not, because neither I nor my cats can stand the sound long enough to check. I do have one TZ30 that works correctly on the same mahine, so I'm relatively sure it isn't a controller problem. Does anybody have any idea what the deal is? Since the TZ30 is apparently the only tape device that's bootable on the RQZX1, I'd like to have at least 2 working units. Doc From trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Fri Nov 19 15:35:42 2004 From: trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (trash3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: TZ30 question Message-ID: <041119163542.531@splab.cas.neu.edu> Jumpers set wrong? terminator power? (probably shouldn't have any) Are they basically the tk50 replacement? 95 Mb tape? Joe Heck From aek at spies.com Fri Nov 19 16:02:26 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: TZ30 question Message-ID: <20041119220226.56B6646DD@spies.com> > squeal continuously as long as they're attached to the SCSI bus The SCSI cable is backwards. I ran into this a few weeks ago. You should also think about cleaning the heads. The easiest, totally non-obvious way is pop the two C washers (with the power off obviously on the head stack, and pull the stack up to gain access to the head surface. Clean with "head cleaner" if you can still find a bottle, or 99% isopropyl -- TK50 media sucks.. I just had to read several hundred carts from the mid 80's and every one was sticky. The REALLY annoying thing about serpentine media is you get to spread accumulated gunk across the ends of the tape after each pass, and risk the motor stalling and leaving a big pile of gunk after each direction reversal. From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Nov 19 16:09:55 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: DEC colours In-Reply-To: <009c01c4ce5b$5d4ba1c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <158.43cd5d5d.2eca5f71@aol.com><16793.7502.363129.427065@gargle.gargle.HOWL><005001c4cb9b$89c3daa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06><6.2.0.14.2.20041116140853.0371e6f0@pc> <009c01c4ce5b$5d4ba1c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20041119140650.T35808@shell.lmi.net> On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, John Allain wrote: > Guess I'm just partial to what NASA does. Throw down a few reference > colors next to the thing, take a color photograph, and postprocess the > reference colors to what they should be. Although now I see that that is > like the problem of describing right and left to an alien. Where do you > get the reference colors in the first place? Kodak. 18% ND gray card, (readily available from any TECHNICAL photo supply) and you can use the color references in the Kodak pocket dataguide (almost certainly discontinued?) > Guess one of us has to find > a vendor for the three swatches to mail to requesting parties. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Nov 19 15:26:28 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: Difference between sun4, sun4c and sun4m subarchitectures In-Reply-To: <0411191932.AA17931@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0411191932.AA17931@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <20041119222628.2c42ff04.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, 19 Nov 04 19:32:13 GMT msokolov@ivan.harhan.org (Michael Sokolov) wrote: > Does anyone know what are the real technical differences between sun4, > sun4c and sun4m subarchitectures of SPARC from the viewpoint of an OS > kernel writer? I am not entirely sure, but I think the differences are in in the CPU cache, the MMU, the IO architecture (sun4 VME, sun4c SBus) and sun4m is based on SPRAC V8 CPUs where the older sun4 / sun4c is based on V7 CPUs. This is a bit simplified. E.g. the SM100 MBus CPU module is for sun4m machines but has two V7 CPUs. Also: The sun4/6xx CPU boards are sun4m with VME _and_ SBus. In addition they are the first and only sun4m CPU boards with VME. Not to talk about sun4d or Solburn (?) machines... I know you don't like it, but maybe the NetBSD kernel source is a help. Google for a file named "sun.hardware.FAQ"... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Nov 19 17:04:02 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: Colo[u]rs (was: DEC colours In-Reply-To: <20041119140650.T35808@shell.lmi.net> References: <158.43cd5d5d.2eca5f71@aol.com><16793.7502.363129.427065@gargle.gargle.HOWL><005001c4cb9b$89c3daa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06><6.2.0.14.2.20041116140853.0371e6f0@pc> <009c01c4ce5b$5d4ba1c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <20041119140650.T35808@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20041119143911.H35808@shell.lmi.net> On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, John Allain wrote: > Guess I'm just partial to what NASA does. Throw down a few reference > colors next to the thing, take a color photograph, and postprocess the > reference colors to what they should be. Although now I see that that is > like the problem of describing right and left to an alien. Where do you > get the reference colors in the first place? If you're trying to match COLOURs, try: http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/colour%20management.htm They have a bunch of stuff about colour management, including grey cards. If you're trying to match COLORs, The THIRD edition (1966) of the "Kodak Color Dataguide" has both gray scale and color control patches. (along with a whole bunch of dedicated circular slide rules for things like color correction with filter pack changes) lower left of: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=29993&item=3853756187 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=378&item=6909509058 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=378&item=6917755402 not sure what is included in the FOURTH edition: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=67365&item=3854346408 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=378&item=6917756035 By the fifth edition (1975), they had dropped the color control patches, but at least they kept the gray card. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4685&item=3853924677 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=629&item=3853206077 -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From tomj at wps.com Fri Nov 19 17:15:30 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: Picture from 1954 Popular Mechanics Magazine In-Reply-To: <419D349E.7020100@gjcp.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20041116152745.009914c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1100637430.3918.128.camel@fortran> <20041118144203.U11295@shell.lmi.net> <419D349E.7020100@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <1100906129.18395.1.camel@fiche.wps.com> On Thu, 2004-11-18 at 15:47, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > Always wanted to make a *proper* stick and rudder pedal set, with proper > throttle, flaps and toe brakes for the FlightGear simulator... OK you asked for it... these are not a joke. http://wps.com/archives/Ivall/TRIDAC-control-desk.jpg http://wps.com/archives/Ivall/TRIDAC-analog-flight-simulator-computer.jpg and separately http://wps.com/archives/Ivall/Redifon-flight-simulator-cabin.jpg From tomj at wps.com Fri Nov 19 17:27:42 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: DEC colours In-Reply-To: <009c01c4ce5b$5d4ba1c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <158.43cd5d5d.2eca5f71@aol.com> <16793.7502.363129.427065@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <005001c4cb9b$89c3daa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <6.2.0.14.2.20041116140853.0371e6f0@pc> <009c01c4ce5b$5d4ba1c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <1100906862.18395.11.camel@fiche.wps.com> On Fri, 2004-11-19 at 09:15, John Allain wrote: > > And paints also derive effects -- often NOT subtle -- > > depending on their depth, literally -- thickness; partially > > Properly administered paint doesn't allow transmission > to the layer beneath it. Huh? It's often done on purpose. You obviously haven't been to a low-rider, hot-rod, or import-scene event [automobile]... :-) It's practically a field of study, and it's certainly an industry. > Guess I'm just partial to what NASA does. Throw down a few reference > colors next to the thing, take a color photograph, and postprocess the > reference colors to what they should be. Umm, I'm not sure which NASA you're talking about, but the one that put the earliest landers on Mars (single photo-diode mechanically scanned camera with switchable filters to build a color image) has an entire chapter in the coffeetable book about color subjectivity, and that there is no "real" or "correct" color correction for earth vs. mars human observers. > Where do you > get the reference colors in the first place? Guess one of us has to find > a vendor for the three swatches to mail to requesting parties. Obviously the bottom line is "close enough". I can picture the paint salesmammal sitting in the conf room with DEC marketing and engineers looking at color swatches, NASA nowhere to be found. I seriously doubt DEC gave a sh*t about color precision past some point, no manu does, it's simply impractical, and no one but the back room geeks are looking anyways, and they ain't writing the checks. The places I've worked that painted objects did them in batches so at least all the parts of an assembly match; an item made in year 0 and year 0 + N may in fact not precisely match. I think DEC was more concerned with the innards than the outwards. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Nov 19 17:28:46 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: 'ICE' Apple /// cards In-Reply-To: <1100896836.14242.56.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1100896836.14242.56.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <3479.192.168.0.7.1100906926.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> > > This Apple /// I picked up today has two boards in it: > > 1) Labelled "ICE KONAN ADAPTOR", with a ROM and 6116 RAM chip on it + a > few 74xx logic chips. It's got a 26 pin header on board. > > 2) Labelled "ICE multiplexor host adapter". Has a 20 pin header on it, > plus two (empty) 24 pin IC sockets (and a handful of LS logic). I've got both of those, one of 'em is a controller for an/the ICE hard drive box. Thinking about it, I've got 2 ICE boxes but the 2nd one isn't too well and seems to be lacking components. Should dig 'em out I s'pose, but it's bloody cold right now - took me 20 minutes to de-ice the car this morning which wasn't helped by the fact that all doors had frozen shut! -- adrian/witchy Binary Dinosaurs owner/curator www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UKs biggest home computer collection? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 19 18:10:54 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: from "Scott Stevens" at Nov 19, 4 00:02:17 am Message-ID: > > On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 00:25:01 +0000 (GMT),Tony Duel wrote: > > >However, I would always claim a schematic can be produced (direct > >chip-on-board being a possible exception!). > > The other 'newer' exception would be ball-grid-array packaged parts. True, but this is classiccmp :-) > > Fortunately, the most interesting things to reverse-engineer are still > mostly through-hole with conventional DIP packaging, etc. Conventioanl SMDs (SOICs, SOT transistors, etc) are a pain due to the close spacing of the connections (you need good probes), but still possible. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 19 18:14:06 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: time machine... In-Reply-To: <419DC0EF.90101@gjcp.net> from "Gordon JC Pearce" at Nov 19, 4 09:46:23 am Message-ID: > > I am already know to be mad by the local Citroen dealer. I'm the guy who > > orders all sorts of little parts rather than a complete assembly (my time > > doesn't cost anything, so it's worth me rebuilting a unit rather than > > replacing it). The thought of getting an air filter and telling them it's > > for my computer seems rather fun :-) > > Heh. I went in to get bits for my 1989 Citroen CX 22TRS, and the spotty > oik behind the parts counter had never ever *heard* of those. He *did* Ouch! > know that some had "that funny air suspension that goes up and down" but As does the GS, BX, XM, Xantia and probably the C5. The DS and ID are subtly different, at least in the original version, but I think most have now been converted (the LHS fluid being essentially unobtainium now). Any Citroen dealer who doesn't know about that wonderful suspension needs to be shown a clue-by-4 :-) > he wasn't allowed to work on those. > > It's funny, there seems to be a correlation between retro computing and > unusual cars, doesn't there. This thread is about to go off-topic... In my case, I think it's because I like fine (and unsual) engineering and I am not afraid to learn about it and work on it. Whether it's the Citroen hycraulic system or the PERQ processor :-) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 19 18:27:00 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: <1100872989.14225.31.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Nov 19, 4 02:03:09 pm Message-ID: > Pair of LM339's, an LM358, an SG3846, an SOC640B, and one labelled 339 = quad comparator. Maybe part of the power-OK circuit. 358 = dual op-amp, maybe part of the voltage feedback loop or the current sense. I'll gues the 3846 is a chopper control chip -- there are a lot of SG devices for that (the SG3542 and SG3842 seem to be quite common). Watch out for TO92 packaged devices (look like small signal transistors). It would not suprise me to find a TL043 or equivalent regulator... > "M8852 6-1003 876". No idea what that last one is/does - any ideas what How many pins? It looks like a house-coded number, which may meen a custom device :-(, it may meen a selected device (which is less of a problem, and won't affect tracing the schematic if you can identify it), or may just be a normal device. A trick that sometimes helps is to work out the sort of function it should have and then match up known power and ground pins, etc. > it is? I suspect the SOC chip is an opto-isolator (it only has 6 pins > and is curiously in a white package). Not sure about the SG chip but I Almost certainly an optoisolator. Probably for the voltage feedback loop (LED on the secondary side of the supply, connected to some kind of voltage sense circuit, transistor connected to the chopper control side of things). > > This is presumably on the mains side of the PSU. Can you find any dead > > shorts with an ohmmeter? Is there a dead short across the output of the > > bridge, for example. > > Nope, nothing appears to be shorted at all - or at least I've checked > the obvious stuff; bridge, chopper transistors, filter caps, power > diodes etc. - but the fact that this resistor in the mains feed seems > to just croak straight away seems odd. I'll see how it goes... I think what I'd do there is connect a light bulb in place of the resistor (say a normal 100W mains bulb, which should be OK for testing on light/no load), then pull the chopper transistors and power up. If the bulb lights brightly you've probably got a short in the rectifier/smoothing capacitor stage. -tony From stephane.tsacas at gmail.com Fri Nov 19 19:30:34 2004 From: stephane.tsacas at gmail.com (Stephane Tsacas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: Sperry anyone? In-Reply-To: <419891D6.4030909@pacbell.net> References: <419891D6.4030909@pacbell.net> Message-ID: The Sperry 7000, aka CCI 6/32, Harris HCX/7, Tahoe, was a nice machine, AFAIR microcoded architecture, amd2901 based, and with a VAX like (reduced) instruction set. But it doesn't fit in a box :) Stephane -- Stephane Paris, France. From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Nov 19 19:53:07 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: Sperry anyone? Message-ID: <0411200153.AA18438@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Stephane Tsacas wrote: > The Sperry 7000, aka CCI 6/32, Harris HCX/7, Tahoe, was a nice > machine, AFAIR microcoded architecture, amd2901 based, and with a VAX > like (reduced) instruction set. Ah yes, the Tahoe of the 4.3BSD-Tahoe fame. It's a VAX knock-off deliberately modified to not run VAX binaries (particularly VMS), I guess so that DEC wouldn't sue them. They made it big-endian and reversed the nibbles in VAX opcodes, and made a few other random changes while they were at it. Its OS was, you've guessed it, 4.3BSD-Tahoe. It was the most short-lived architecture in the history of BSD UNIX, introduced after 4.3BSD and discontinued before 4.4BSD. Just out of curiousity, does there still exist at least one (1) Tahoe machine in the world that hasn't been melted down? I'm still carrying the Tahoe code in the 4.3BSD-Quasijarus source tree, completely unmaintained and bitrotten, and wondering if it will ever be touched by anyone in the time between now and the Big Crunch (opposite of Big Bang) in which the Universe will end. MS From vcf at siconic.com Fri Nov 19 20:04:31 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: DEC colours In-Reply-To: <009c01c4ce5b$5d4ba1c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, John Allain wrote: > like the problem of describing right and left to an alien. Where do you > get the reference colors in the first place? Guess one of us has to find > a vendor for the three swatches to mail to requesting parties. And how do we know if DEC maintained the same reference colors throughout their company history? And if so, perhaps they faded over time? Maybe someone played shenanigans and switched them out with similar but different colors at some point? Who knows? Who cares! Color matching by eye is "good enough". -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri Nov 19 20:14:21 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: Picture from 1954 Popular Mechanics Magazine In-Reply-To: <1100906129.18395.1.camel@fiche.wps.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > On Thu, 2004-11-18 at 15:47, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > > > Always wanted to make a *proper* stick and rudder pedal set, with proper > > throttle, flaps and toe brakes for the FlightGear simulator... > > OK you asked for it... these are not a joke. > > http://wps.com/archives/Ivall/TRIDAC-control-desk.jpg > http://wps.com/archives/Ivall/TRIDAC-analog-flight-simulator-computer.jpg Simply amazing. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From tomj at wps.com Fri Nov 19 20:21:54 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: was: Re: DEC colours now: dead horse beaten into thin film In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1100917314.3616.2.camel@fiche.wps.com> On Fri, 2004-11-19 at 18:04, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Who knows? Who cares! Color matching by eye is "good enough". The classic trick is to simply match a panel you have. For a good sample of the "correct" (sic) color (colour) is to remove an escutcheon, or flip a panel over, etc, to find paint that hasn't been exposed to sunlight and/or coffee and match that. Or squirt the whole thing wrinkle black. Everything looks good in wrinkle black. No exceptions. PS: You can get aerosol wrinkle black paint from www.eastwoodco.com. Works great. From tomj at wps.com Fri Nov 19 20:27:12 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: Picture from 1954 Popular Mechanics Magazine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1100917632.3616.8.camel@fiche.wps.com> On Fri, 2004-11-19 at 18:14, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > http://wps.com/archives/Ivall/TRIDAC-control-desk.jpg > > http://wps.com/archives/Ivall/TRIDAC-analog-flight-simulator-computer.jpg Yeah, Microsoft flight simulator does a poor job on the Hydraulic Pump Room and the Rectifier Room. From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Nov 19 20:43:54 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: Sorta kinda OT: Flight Sim Hardware In-Reply-To: <1100917632.3616.8.camel@fiche.wps.com> References: <1100917632.3616.8.camel@fiche.wps.com> Message-ID: Someone was asking about fairly real-world flight sim goodies: www.kingschools.com/productDetail.asp?itemNo=GOO%20EL93 and one can go from there to research it. I know folks who have purchased older 'cockpit' style full-size simulators - Cessa Pilot Schools had one in the 70s that replicated a 150 panel, yoke, throttle and pedals - all in analog, and using real and modified instruments... all electric, no vacuum, etc. Cheers John From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Nov 19 20:46:56 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: was: Re: DEC colours now: dead horse beaten into thin film In-Reply-To: <1100917314.3616.2.camel@fiche.wps.com> References: <1100917314.3616.2.camel@fiche.wps.com> Message-ID: <20041119184604.R40508@shell.lmi.net> On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > Everything looks good in > wrinkle black. No exceptions. Not my previous supervisor! From aek at spies.com Fri Nov 19 21:01:08 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: Sperry anyone? Message-ID: <20041120030108.AC04146D5@spies.com> The Sperry 7000, aka CCI 6/32, Harris HCX/7, Tahoe, was a nice machine -- It has some problems. UW Milwaukee bought a Sperry 7000 and there were microcode bugs that they couldn't get fixed which resulted in unacceptable numbers of kernel panics. From jrasite at eoni.com Fri Nov 19 21:44:12 2004 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: Kildall In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <715692B6-3AA6-11D9-B14E-000502453125@eoni.com> I subscribe to a delightful periodical called "The American Heritage of Invention & Technology." The current issue has an article entitled, "They Made America," an interview with Harold Evans, the author of the book by the same name. It has this to say about Gary Kildall, I&T: Do you have a favorite person? Or favorite story? Evans: "Well, I think Gary Kildall is the most abused of all the innovators. In justice to him, to his memory, his is the most monstrous story in the book. We all of us today benefit from Gary Kildall's innovations, and they were basically snitched from him. He was betrayed by IBM. He should be celebrated instead of forgotten, and he is the one I feel the strongest about. "He suffered from pure idealism. He believed that his operating system -- which was the basis of Bill Gates's fortune and the IBM PC -- should not be exploited to achieve a monopoly of applications. By himself he laid the foundations for the software industry. He would not have gone into word processing and spreadsheets and the like because he believed that would have yielded an overweening monopoly. And he's been proved absolutely right." From charlesb at otcgaming.net Thu Nov 18 07:26:17 2004 From: charlesb at otcgaming.net (charlesb@otcgaming.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: <1100780776.12464.17.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1100780776.12464.17.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1180.81.79.28.94.1100784377.squirrel@81.79.28.94> If it's a simple board with just a top and bottom layer, then I normally photocopy it and use that in conjunction with the real pcb to make a copy of the traces. however the problem comes when you have a lot of fine tracks on the board as in the case of something complex like a CPU board. also you would need to take into account more than 2 layers. now i'm assuming by your post it's a PSU board? if so, you may be better off tracing out the board onto a piece of paper like I suggested above as that would normally only be 2 layers. with usually the HV on the bottom side and the LV on the top. It may even be just a single layer board as is in most modern PC PSUs. That said, if you have connectino diagrams, have you thought about using an ATX psu? it's ok for switch on/off just short pin 14 on the atx connector (green wire iirc) to ground and that will turn on the psu. regards charles > Has anyone got any useful tips for tracing out schematics? The SMPSU in > this 'ere NCR Tower is toast, but it's a complex beastie as it's pretty > huge and spread over two large boards. > From aw288 at osfn.org Sat Nov 20 01:09:29 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: DEC colours In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > And how do we know if DEC maintained the same reference colors throughout > their company history? And if so, perhaps they faded over time? Maybe > someone played shenanigans and switched them out with similar but > different colors at some point? > > Who knows? Who cares! Color matching by eye is "good enough". I have to agree. Judging from all of DECstuff I have seen over the years, it seems like the paintshop used whatever paint and schemes they felt like on any given day. Matching paint by eye really is not too hard - just be prepared to waste some paint if a mix goes wrong, and experiment quite a bit... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Nov 20 03:36:29 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: TZ30 question In-Reply-To: <20041119220226.56B6646DD@spies.com> References: <20041119220226.56B6646DD@spies.com> Message-ID: <419F101D.8060204@mdrconsult.com> Al Kossow wrote: >>squeal continuously as long as they're attached to the SCSI bus > > > The SCSI cable is backwards. > > I ran into this a few weeks ago. What are the odds that two identical tape drives have the cable connectors reversed? So I tried flipping the cable anyway. ;) It didn't help. > You should also think about cleaning the heads. The easiest, totally > non-obvious way is pop the two C washers (with the power off obviously > on the head stack, and pull the stack up to gain access to the head > surface. > > Clean with "head cleaner" if you can still find a bottle, or 99% isopropyl I have some head cleaner. I've been putting off cleaning it, but I may have to do that. Doc From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Nov 20 06:27:08 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: was: Re: DEC colours now: dead horse beaten into thin film In-Reply-To: <1100917314.3616.2.camel@fiche.wps.com> References: <1100917314.3616.2.camel@fiche.wps.com> Message-ID: <1100953628.15837.0.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-11-19 at 18:21 -0800, Tom Jennings wrote: > On Fri, 2004-11-19 at 18:04, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > Who knows? Who cares! Color matching by eye is "good enough". > > The classic trick is to simply match a panel you have. For a good sample > of the "correct" (sic) color (colour) is to remove an escutcheon, or > flip a panel over, etc, to find paint that hasn't been exposed to > sunlight and/or coffee and match that. > > Or squirt the whole thing wrinkle black. Everything looks good in > wrinkle black. No exceptions. What you need is a can of tartan paint... ;) From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Nov 20 10:48:46 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1100969326.15988.12.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sat, 2004-11-20 at 00:27 +0000, Tony Duell wrote: > > "M8852 6-1003 876". No idea what that last one is/does - any ideas what > > How many pins? It looks like a house-coded number, which may meen a > custom device :-(, it may meen a selected device (which is less of a > problem, and won't affect tracing the schematic if you can identify it), > or may just be a normal device. It's only an 8 pin device - I'll get to that one eventually; it's somewhere toward the output side and I've only got as far as the rectifier / chopper circuitry so far. Curiously, voltage select between 115V / 220V is done via a relay, despite there being a manual voltage select switch on the back of the PSU. Not sure why that would be yet; there's quite a bit of circuitry between the switch and relay, and I've only got rough schematics for that bit noted down at the mo. > A trick that sometimes helps is to work out the sort of function it > should have and then match up known power and ground pins, etc. Yep, sounds sensible. > > it is? I suspect the SOC chip is an opto-isolator (it only has 6 pins > > and is curiously in a white package). Not sure about the SG chip but I > > Almost certainly an optoisolator. Probably for the voltage feedback loop > (LED on the secondary side of the supply, connected to some kind of > voltage sense circuit, transistor connected to the chopper control side > of things). It appears to be controlling the gate of an SCR, the anode of which goes to the live input via a thermal resistor (which is placed next to that 5W resistor which keeps failing), and the cathode of which goes to the 'hot' ground rail. Some form of overload protection, I assume. > I think what I'd do there is connect a light bulb in place of the > resistor (say a normal 100W mains bulb, which should be OK for testing on > light/no load), then pull the chopper transistors and power up. If the > bulb lights brightly you've probably got a short in the > rectifier/smoothing capacitor stage. OK, with the chopper array disconnected (plus everything downstream of it) the bulb lights very brightly when power's initially applied, then gradually extinguishes over a period of about 5 seconds. DC output from the rectifier is 300V. Possible dried-out smoothing cap? The bridge checks out OK on the meter although maybe it's failing under heavier load conditions... cheers Jules > > -tony -- "We've had a lot of loonies around this place, but you're the first one who thought the sunrise was made out of stale beer. Now are you going to pick up your flute and leave, or shall I part your hair with this crowbar?" From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Nov 20 12:09:53 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: <1180.81.79.28.94.1100784377.squirrel@81.79.28.94> References: <1100780776.12464.17.camel@weka.localdomain> <1180.81.79.28.94.1100784377.squirrel@81.79.28.94> Message-ID: <1100974193.15988.24.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-11-18 at 08:26 -0500, charlesb@otcgaming.net wrote: > If it's a simple board with just a top and bottom layer, then I normally > photocopy it and use that in conjunction with the real pcb to make a copy > of the traces. I've actually put boards on a scanner before; with a bit of image processing it's usually possible to isolate tracks from the PCB very well - but of course it can only work for one side of the board :) > That said, if you have connectino diagrams, have you thought about using > an ATX psu? it's ok for switch on/off just short pin 14 on the atx > connector (green wire iirc) to ground and that will turn on the psu. Ahh, this thing's rated at 750W - I'd need to replace it with something pretty heavyweight :) I did wonder about substitution even so (assuming the failure's in some impossible-to-get part), but I'd still need to figure out what all the sense wires between the PSU and the system backplane do. I could live without the battery back-up circuitry of course; not like the machine's used in a critical environment :-) Fixing it would be a much nicer option; plus given that it didn't go bang in any way (I turned it on one day and it was dead, didn't so much as try to start) I'm hopeful that the fault's reasonably isolated and hasn't wrecked to much on the board... cheers Jules From tomj at wps.com Sat Nov 20 12:51:42 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: Kildall In-Reply-To: <715692B6-3AA6-11D9-B14E-000502453125@eoni.com> References: <715692B6-3AA6-11D9-B14E-000502453125@eoni.com> Message-ID: <1100976699.2680.13.camel@fiche.wps.com> On Fri, 2004-11-19 at 19:44, Jim Arnott wrote: > Evans: "Well, I think Gary Kildall is the most abused of all the > innovators. In justice to him, to his memory, his is the most monstrous > story in the book. We all of us today benefit from Gary Kildall's > innovations, and they were basically snitched from him. He was betrayed > by IBM. He should be celebrated instead of forgotten, and he is the one > I feel the strongest about. While I tend to dislike "heroization" of people in general, Kildall and crew did a lot of quality work and weren't particularly egotistic about it. As I recall (immediately suspicious phrase :-) they just shut up and made good stuff. As I mentioned a few days ago, it didn't occur to me at the time, neophyte that I was, that what stood out in DR products was quality, and lack of bugginess. Not much from that time was that good (Micropro Int'l products WordMaster, WordStar come to mind). I didn't appreciate it, really, at the time. From tomj at wps.com Sat Nov 20 12:54:12 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: was: Re: DEC colours now: dead horse beaten into thin film In-Reply-To: <1100953628.15837.0.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1100917314.3616.2.camel@fiche.wps.com> <1100953628.15837.0.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1100976849.2680.16.camel@fiche.wps.com> On Sat, 2004-11-20 at 04:27, Jules Richardson wrote: > What you need is a can of tartan paint... ;) !! you can buy spotted spray paint! Really, it appeared in a lot of automobile trunks (boots). Basically it's little blobs of color in a think aerosol black or grey. You can get it from J.C. Whitney, Eastwood, etc. What I want are plaid/tartan LEDs! From vcf at siconic.com Sat Nov 20 13:38:21 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: Kildall In-Reply-To: <1100976699.2680.13.camel@fiche.wps.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Nov 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > lack of bugginess. Not much from that time was that good (Micropro Int'l > products WordMaster, WordStar come to mind). I didn't appreciate it, "Come to mind" as in they were or were not buggy? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From tomj at wps.com Sat Nov 20 13:49:48 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: Kildall In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1100980185.2680.61.camel@fiche.wps.com> On Sat, 2004-11-20 at 11:38, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sat, 20 Nov 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > > > lack of bugginess. Not much from that time was that good (Micropro Int'l > > products WordMaster, WordStar come to mind). I didn't appreciate it, > > "Come to mind" as in they were or were not buggy? Very good software, both. I never used WordMaster, but used WordStar a lot. I use MATE (Mike Aronson's Text Editor, later PMATE) for programmatic junk. Copies of that, I have. Anyways Word.* was very good. From charlesb at otcgaming.net Sat Nov 20 14:28:31 2004 From: charlesb at otcgaming.net (charlesb@otcgaming.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: <1100974193.15988.24.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1100780776.12464.17.camel@weka.localdomain> <1180.81.79.28.94.1100784377.squirrel@81.79.28.94> <1100974193.15988.24.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1298.81.77.255.141.1100982511.squirrel@81.77.255.141> Stupid Question, you DID check the fuse? :D > Fixing it would be a much nicer option; plus given that it didn't go > bang in any way (I turned it on one day and it was dead, didn't so much > as try to start) I'm hopeful that the fault's reasonably isolated and > hasn't wrecked to much on the board... > > cheers > > Jules > > From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Sat Nov 20 14:42:27 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: <1298.81.77.255.141.1100982511.squirrel@81.77.255.141> Message-ID: <009701c4cf41$73f115e0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > Stupid Question, you DID check the fuse? :D I've no idea what's wrong with his PSU, but didn't he swap a resistor and the new one blew too? I'm guessing that either the fuse is intact or he swapped in a nail :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Nov 20 15:44:48 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: [Amps] FS: Transistors, diodes, IC's (fwd) Message-ID: I've had several business deals with Marv - he's a stand-up guy, very pleasant and honest. I've taken the liberty to snip off the rather extensive list of RF and general-purpose devices, which are off-topic here. There might be some chips-of-interest to various of us on The List - contact him directly if so. Cheers John ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 12:37:06 -0800 From: Radio WC6W To: amps@contesting.com **** Integrated Circuits **** Most, if not all of these are long discontinued, but may be just what someone needs for servicing a relic of the 20th century... Allegro (Sprague) ULN3859 IF chip $5 ea Altera -- $10 ea EP600DC EP900DC AMD 2964BPC $20 29C117 $50 29C516APC $50 AMI S2814 $15 CMDmicro CM1210 $5 CM1232 $5 Cypress CY7C901C $10 Delco NOS (Take all the Delco parts for $100) DM1 $7 ea DM4 $10 DM12 $20 DM14 $5 DM22 $20 DM25 $20 DM29 $10 DM37 $3 DM39 $10 DM43 $3 ea DM44 $4 DM45 $3 ea DM46 $4 DM50 $4 DM51 $4 DM68 $3 ea DM77 $5 DM79 $4 ea DM91 $5 ea DM103 $4 DM115 $5 DM118 $3 ea DM120 $5 ea DM127 $5 DM136 $7 ea DM166 $5 ea DM195 $5 DM201 $5 ea DM210 $5 DM235 $7 ea DM226 $10 DM270 $10 ea DS77 $3 ea (DM?)0879 $5 (DM?)0880 $4 (DM?)1202 $2 (DM?)2193 $10 21450 $5 23859/23-020 $3 ea 56728 $5 ea S005A3 $5 S014A4 $4 ea S812A1 $5 Fairchild 11C83DC 1 GHz ECL divide by 248/256 Prescaler NOS $20 ea 11C90DC 650 MHz ECL divide by 10 Prescaler NOS $20 ea Fujitsu MB3713 5.7 watt Audio Amp NOS $10 ea Hitachi HA1366WR 5.5 watt Audio Amp NOS $10 ea Hughes HNVM3708P 1Kx8 EEPROM $10 ITT -- $5 ea SAA1250 SAA1251 SAF1032P SAF1039 TEA1009 Lambda LAS 723B Voltage regulator, lead formed 10 pin TO-5 $3 ea Hybrid Regulators NOS -- $10 ea FBH-24-003 FBH-24-004 FBH-24-009 FBH-24-015 FBH-24-020 FBH-24-021 FBH-24-022 FBH-24-023 Linear Corp. -- Remote Control IC's $5 ea R7411-1 R7411-2A T7411-1 Micro Networks -- NOS in Ceramic packages; lots of Gold too! DAC87H 12 bit D/A $15 MN373 16bit Track & Hold $20 MN373H 16bit Track & Hold $20 MN376 12bit Track & Hold $15 MN379 Flash Track & Hold $15 MN565AJ 12 Bit D/A $25 MN574AL 12 Bit A/D $25 MN5101 8 Bit A/D $15 MN5131 8 Bit A/D $15 MN5143 8 Bit A/D $15 MN5211 8 Bit A/D $15 MN5240 12 Bit A/D $40 MN5245 12 Bit A/D $40 MN5290 16 Bit A/D $60 MN7120 8 Bit Data Acq. Sys. $60 MN7140 12 Bit Data Acq. Sys. $60 MN7150-16 12 Bit Data Acq. Sys. $100 Mitsubishi DN828P NOS $10 M51517L (Audio Amp?) NOS $10 ea MMI 74S409N $15 Motorola EF68000-10C $20 MC68000G8 $15 MC1438R (5) $25 ea MC1468R $25 Dual Conversion FM receivers NOS $3ea MC3359P MC3374FTB ECL NOS MC10102L $4 ea MC10104L $4 ea MC10131L $7 ea MC10138L $10 ea ECL pulls (from sockets, no solder) $2 ea MC10H124P MC10H174P RF amps NOS $10 ea SWA106H SWA127H Communications 51-84267A09 Whatever that is... NIB $3 National DP8409AN-3 $15 NS16032SD-4 $20 NS16032SD-6 $25 NS16081D $20 NS16201D-6 $10 MM53200N Remote Control IC $5 ea CRT Controller Chipset NOS $25 for all 5 DP8510CV DP8511CV DP8512CV DP8515CV DP8516CV NEC D751-4CW NOS $20 Nitron NC6400-0218 (An EEProm?) $5 Plessey NOS $5 ea ML924 ML926 ML927 MV500 SL301A SL301B SL486 SL1532C SL2521B SL2541B Plessey NOS $10 ea SL6600C SL6700C SP4632 SP4634 SP4642 SP5000 SP5010 SP5050 SP8634B SP8735B PLX Tech -- $10 ea PLX448-45 PLX464-45 Q-Bit QBH-110 Hybrid RF amps (15 dB, 5-500 MHz) NOS $15 ea. RCA CA3088E AM Receiver IC NOS $5 ea Regency House Numbered parts NOS $3 each 310-576-48 600-565 600-596 600 606-5 85420 -- These are Microchip ER1400's probably programmed with something Regency pulls -- a dozen chips total $10 all 600-603-16A 600-603-9B 600-680 600-565 301-576-3 Rockwell 6522 uP VIA Interface NOS $5 ea Siemens - $10 ea SLE5001 SLE5002 Silicon General SM625B - $10 ea Sylvania ECG1058 Audio Amp NOS $10 ea Telefunken U4062B FM Receiver IC NOS $5 ea Texas Instruments SN76477N Sound Generator $15 ea TMS32010JDL $15 Toshiba NOS TA7205 5.8 watt Audio Amp $10 ea TC9188N $10 ea TRW -- $150 ea 2310H7C MPY12AJ Unitrode PIC8015 $10ea PIC600 (13) used $5 ea Vanguard VN2018D $10 VN3018 $10 VN1025 $15 Waferscale 5901C $10 59016C $15 59016JSBS $15 **** SEMICONDUCTORS **** All of the above plus shipping, if necessary, naturally. Contact: Marv WC6W 310 649 3111 (reasonable hours Pacific Time please) or via wc6w@juno.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Nov 20 15:50:39 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: New Find! VERY COOL! Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041120165039.00926100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I picked up some INTERESTING manuals today! Instruction Mnaual for the Computer Control Company DDP-24 General Purpose Computer, 1964. AMS-C Computer System Manual (Copy #1!) "Supplements the Apollo Mission Simulator System Manual" and "reflects the addition to the AMS system of a DDP-224 Gerneral Purpose Computer", 1965. IBM - Logic Blocks Automated Logic Diagrams SLT, SLD, ASLT, MST, 1971. IBM - Service Manual "Selectric" Typewriter Models 7X1, 7X3, 7X5, 8X2, 8X5, 1972. Repair Operation Manual for the Jaguar Series 3 V.12 'E' type, 1971. Joe :-) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Nov 20 15:59:55 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: Can you beleive this S^&^! Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041120165955.00796c50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> . $800 with almost two days to go! And this is that INCOMPLETE and untested HP 1000!!!! Has everybody lost their minds? Joe From dave04a at dunfield.com Sat Nov 20 15:59:48 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: Daling with Mouse damage? (Not the computer kind) Message-ID: <20041120215948.NQRK24976.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Just took in a Superbrain-QD which was "stored" uncovered in a garage for the past 10 (or more) years ... It's got serious mouse damage - underneath and all around the monitor was stuffed with insulation, wood chips and bits - obviously a large nest. More seriously, both the main PCB and the power supply PCB are *COVERED* in mouse droppings, and *SOAKED* in mouse urine (mostly dried up now, but the damage has been done). Lots of corrosion and such, but it looks repairable.... But both boards are covered in a layer of dried urine, sprinkled with generous gobs of urine soaked manure (about the consistancy of fairly dry tar), which is "glued" to the board. This is the worst case of mouse damage I have seen ... I would very much appreciate any tips that can be offered on how best to clean the boards without damaging them... ??? Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Nov 20 16:09:19 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: Daling with Mouse damage? (Not the computer kind) In-Reply-To: <20041120215948.NQRK24976.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> References: <20041120215948.NQRK24976.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: Right off the bat I'd be pretty careful of that, in terms of the various (some pretty hideous) diseases that rodents carry with them - HantaVirus comes immediately to mind. Me, I'da left the damn thing right where it was... yuk! Just my unsolicited 200 millidollar.. ;} Cheers John From bert at brothom.nl Sat Nov 20 16:09:45 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: M9301 ROM contents Message-ID: <1208.195.64.88.124.1100988585.squirrel@office.brothom.nl> Hi All, I'm trying to get my recently aquired PDP11/34A to boot. I already checked that the console port is correct and that the M7856 operates correctly. Since booting doesn't output anything on the console, I think I should check if the contents of the ROMs on the M9301 are correct. Does anyone have the contents of these ROMs available for me? Regards, Bert From wacarder at usit.net Sat Nov 20 16:15:50 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:47 2005 Subject: Found 1954 IBM manual Message-ID: Today I was cleaning out my room over the garage, which is where I have my home office and my *MODERN* computers. In the process of cleaning out one of the desk drawers, I found an old manual that I knew I had kept since college in the 1970s, but I had lost track of where it was. It's a 1954 "Preliminary Manual of Information" for IBM Electronic Data Processing Machines, Type 702. It's 83 pages long and has lots of interesting information on the 702 system and its related set of peripherals and other items. On page 4 is a picture of an installation, with some 727 Magnetic Tape Units, an operator's console, a 712 Card Reader, the 702 Arithmetic and Logic Unit, a 732 Magnetic Drum Storage Unit, a 722 Card Punch, and a 717 Printer. The main storage unit can hold a total of 10,000 characters, which are stored as dot and dash charges on 3" cathode ray tubes. Does anyone on this list remember this kind of system? It is really interesting reading, looking at this manual and comparing to where we are today, or even where we were back in the 1970s, when I picked this manual up from the "free giveaway" table outside our college's computer room. Does anyone know if this manual exists in scanned form? If not, I'll scan it and send it to Al Kossow to put on bitsavers. Ashley From pkoning at equallogic.com Sat Nov 20 16:20:19 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: DEC colours References: <009c01c4ce5b$5d4ba1c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <16799.49955.884577.337337@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Vintage" == Vintage Computer Festival writes: Vintage> On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, John Allain wrote: >> like the problem of describing right and left to an alien. Where >> do you get the reference colors in the first place? Guess one of >> us has to find a vendor for the three swatches to mail to >> requesting parties. Vintage> And how do we know if DEC maintained the same reference Vintage> colors throughout their company history? And if so, perhaps Vintage> they faded over time? Maybe someone played shenanigans and Vintage> switched them out with similar but different colors at some Vintage> point? That's why people who care about color -- which is a lot of companies and a lot of marketing people -- use the Pantone system or others like it. That way you don't have to rely on faded samples or eyeball matching. Tell a printer "the logo is Pantone 300" and you've completely described what you're asking for. Vintage> Who knows? Who cares! Color matching by eye is "good Vintage> enough". That depends on what business you're in. paul From cmcnabb at gmail.com Sat Nov 20 16:29:46 2004 From: cmcnabb at gmail.com (Christopher L McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: Daling with Mouse damage? (Not the computer kind) In-Reply-To: <20041120215948.NQRK24976.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> References: <20041120215948.NQRK24976.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: <419FC55A.1030900@gmail.com> Dave Dunfield wrote: >Just took in a Superbrain-QD which was "stored" uncovered in a garage for >the past 10 (or more) years ... > >It's got serious mouse damage - underneath and all around the monitor was >stuffed with insulation, wood chips and bits - obviously a large nest. > >More seriously, both the main PCB and the power supply PCB are *COVERED* >in mouse droppings, and *SOAKED* in mouse urine (mostly dried up now, but >the damage has been done). Lots of corrosion and such, but it looks >repairable.... > >But both boards are covered in a layer of dried urine, sprinkled with generous >gobs of urine soaked manure (about the consistancy of fairly dry tar), which is >"glued" to the board. > >This is the worst case of mouse damage I have seen ... I would very much >appreciate any tips that can be offered on how best to clean the boards >without damaging them... ?? > > Mice are carriers of the Hanta Virus and other contagion. Wear rubber gloves and a surgical mask while cleaning the system. From marvin at rain.org Sat Nov 20 16:30:21 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: Can you beleive this S^&^! Message-ID: <419FC57D.2BF145F9@rain.org> Did you notice that Vintage Computer Marketplace is ALSO mentioned in that ad? This is a terrific time to add more stuff to VCM!!! > > . > > $800 with almost two days to go! And this is that INCOMPLETE and untested HP 1000!!!! Has everybody lost their minds? > > Joe From dave04a at dunfield.com Sat Nov 20 16:44:52 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: Daling with Mouse damage? (Not the computer kind) Message-ID: <20041120224451.CXGL14765.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> At 17:09 20/11/2004 -0500, you wrote: > > > Right off the bat I'd be pretty careful of that, in terms of the various >(some pretty hideous) diseases that rodents carry with them - HantaVirus >comes immediately to mind. > > Me, I'da left the damn thing right where it was... yuk! Thats a good point... I had no idea it was so bad until I opened it up. Had I known, I might have left it as well. I hate to toss it, as it's pretty old, but you are right - I do have to consider the health risk. Other than gloves, mask and open-air venting, what precautions can be taken. Is it worth trying to rescue, or should I dump it asap. Interested in opinions. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sat Nov 20 16:48:22 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: Trendata Terminal/Computer? Message-ID: <021901c4cf53$09f828b0$6e7ba8c0@p933> I've been contacted by someone interested in getting rid of a Trendata setup including a video terminal and a print terminal. I'm guessing that the latter, as a part of a large desk, also contains some sort of computer. I'm not sure about this, though. There are a few pictures at http://www.vintage-computer.com/trendata.shtml The system is located in Northern Ontario and is free for the collection. You may be able to convince the owner to ship it, at your expense, but it's going to be expensive (300 pounds worth of expensive.) I know almost nothing else, but I'll be happy to put you in touch with the owner if you are really interested. Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Nov 20 17:32:15 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: Daling with Mouse damage? (Not the computer kind) In-Reply-To: <20041120224451.CXGL14765.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> References: <20041120224451.CXGL14765.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: In message <20041120224451.CXGL14765.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Dave Dunfield wrote: > I had no idea it was so bad until I opened it up. Had I known, I might have > left it as well. I hate to toss it, as it's pretty old, but you are right - > I do have to consider the health risk. > > Other than gloves, mask and open-air venting, what precautions can be taken. I'd say, lots of water to keep the dust down. I'd use some strong disinfectant too. Me, personally, I wouldn't touch it. Even if the corrosion is repairable, the risk isn't worth taking. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... If you sold hats, babies would be born without heads. From vcf at siconic.com Sat Nov 20 09:54:48 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: New Find! VERY COOL! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041120165039.00926100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > Instruction Mnaual for the Computer Control Company DDP-24 General Purpose Computer, 1964. > AMS-C Computer System Manual (Copy #1!) "Supplements the Apollo Mission Simulator System Manual" and "reflects the addition to the AMS system of a DDP-224 Gerneral Purpose Computer", 1965. > IBM - Logic Blocks Automated Logic Diagrams SLT, SLD, ASLT, MST, 1971. > IBM - Service Manual "Selectric" Typewriter Models 7X1, 7X3, 7X5, 8X2, 8X5, 1972. > Repair Operation Manual for the Jaguar Series 3 V.12 'E' type, 1971. Nice! The Computer History Museum got a DDP-24 computer several years ago. The donor contacted me first but it was a bit out of my league and more properly belonged at the Museum. This is because it was used to perform simulations for the Apollo missions. After it was retired, it was donated to a community college in Florida. The donor ended up with it when the college decided they no longer wanted it. He trucked it over from Florida when he moved to California. It remained in his garage for years until he was about to be foreclosed on. He called me and I then got in touch with the CHM. We acted quick and were able to get a truck down to Santa Barbara to pick it up. It now rests safely at the Museum. Hooray! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jrasite at eoni.com Sat Nov 20 18:53:23 2004 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: was: Re: DEC colours now: dead horse beaten into thin film In-Reply-To: <1100976849.2680.16.camel@fiche.wps.com> Message-ID: On Saturday, November 20, 2004, at 10:54 AM, Tom Jennings wrote: > On Sat, 2004-11-20 at 04:27, Jules Richardson wrote: > >> What you need is a can of tartan paint... ;) > > !! you can buy spotted spray paint! Really, it appeared in a lot of > automobile trunks (boots). Basically it's little blobs of color in a > think aerosol black or grey. You can get it from J.C. Whitney, > Eastwood, > etc. > Brand name: Zolatone Jim From lcourtney at mvista.com Sat Nov 20 18:56:31 2004 From: lcourtney at mvista.com (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: Dealing with Mouse damage? (Not the computer kind) In-Reply-To: <20041120215948.NQRK24976.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: >From Mark Crispin's web page (http://staff.washington.edu/mrc/important.html) - "As of March 2000, twenty-one cases of Hantavirus Pulmonary Syndrome (HPV) have been reported in Washington State. About 42% of the victims die of HPV. The carrier is the insidiously cute deer mouse, which has big ears, big eyes, a white belly, white feet, and a tail with sharply defined white sides. If you find mouse droppings or mouse nesting material, resist the urge to sweep it up! You'll kick up tiny particles of mouse urine, droppings, and saliva into the air, a process known as aerosolization, and you'll breath it in. If Hantavirus is in those particles, you've set yourself up to get HPV. Instead, wear a mask and rubber gloves, and carefully wet down the area with a disinfectant that kills virus (such as bleach). Take up the contaminated materials with a damp towel, then mop the area with disinfectant." Lee Courtney > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dave Dunfield > Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 2:00 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Daling with Mouse damage? (Not the computer kind) > > > Just took in a Superbrain-QD which was "stored" uncovered in a garage for > the past 10 (or more) years ... > > It's got serious mouse damage - underneath and all around the monitor was > stuffed with insulation, wood chips and bits - obviously a large nest. > > More seriously, both the main PCB and the power supply PCB are *COVERED* > in mouse droppings, and *SOAKED* in mouse urine (mostly dried up now, but > the damage has been done). Lots of corrosion and such, but it looks > repairable.... > > But both boards are covered in a layer of dried urine, sprinkled > with generous > gobs of urine soaked manure (about the consistancy of fairly dry > tar), which is > "glued" to the board. > > This is the worst case of mouse damage I have seen ... I would very much > appreciate any tips that can be offered on how best to clean the boards > without damaging them... ??? > > Regards, > Dave > -- > dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield > dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com > com Vintage computing equipment collector. > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 20 19:36:33 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: <1180.81.79.28.94.1100784377.squirrel@81.79.28.94> from "charlesb@otcgaming.net" at Nov 18, 4 08:26:17 am Message-ID: > > If it's a simple board with just a top and bottom layer, then I normally > photocopy it and use that in conjunction with the real pcb to make a copy > of the traces. I find it _much_ easier to trace connections with an ohmmeter than visually. It's very easy for your eye to 'jump' to a neighbouring trace. Of course you do try to follow the traces so you have some idea where to check with the ohmmeter. > That said, if you have connectino diagrams, have you thought about using > an ATX psu? it's ok for switch on/off just short pin 14 on the atx > connector (green wire iirc) to ground and that will turn on the psu. IMHO the PSU is part of the machine and should not be replaced by some other random replacement!. An ATX PSU was certainly not original in this machine, and the aim of a repair/restoration is to keep the machine as original as possible by replacing as little as possible (e.g. replace a transsitor, not a PSU!). The way that PSUs have changed over the years is somewhat interesting, and part of the history of electronics if not computing. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 20 19:42:09 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: <1100969326.15988.12.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Nov 20, 4 04:48:46 pm Message-ID: > > > it is? I suspect the SOC chip is an opto-isolator (it only has 6 pins > > > and is curiously in a white package). Not sure about the SG chip but I > > > > Almost certainly an optoisolator. Probably for the voltage feedback loop > > (LED on the secondary side of the supply, connected to some kind of > > voltage sense circuit, transistor connected to the chopper control side > > of things). > > It appears to be controlling the gate of an SCR, the anode of which goes > to the live input via a thermal resistor (which is placed next to that > 5W resistor which keeps failing), and the cathode of which goes to the > 'hot' ground rail. Some form of overload protection, I assume. Odd.. I wonder how the voltage feedback works, then. It's _possible_ that the chopper control circuit is on the isolated side of the PSU (and therefore no opto-isolator on the voltage feedback loop), transformer-coupled to the chopper transistors (DEC were fond of doing this), but I wouldn't assume that without checking The circuit you've found sounds like something designed to blow the fuse (or at least shut the supply down) if there's a problem. Maybe part of the crowbar cirucit (although I wouldn't have thought that shorting the input would shut the outputs down fast enough), maybe something to blow the fuse if the input votlage selector is set incorrectly (the HP Integral PSU contains a triac circuit the sole purpose of which is to blow the mains fuse if machine is connected to 230V mains with the selector set to 115V). > > > I think what I'd do there is connect a light bulb in place of the > > resistor (say a normal 100W mains bulb, which should be OK for testing on > > light/no load), then pull the chopper transistors and power up. If the > > bulb lights brightly you've probably got a short in the > > rectifier/smoothing capacitor stage. > > OK, with the chopper array disconnected (plus everything downstream of > it) the bulb lights very brightly when power's initially applied, then > gradually extinguishes over a period of about 5 seconds. DC output from > the rectifier is 300V. Possible dried-out smoothing cap? The bridge Maybe OK. It could just be the charging current of the smoothing caps (they'll cahrage a lot more slowly with the lamp in series). Now what happens if you add the choppers? -tony From vcf at siconic.com Sat Nov 20 12:06:04 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: Dealing with Mouse damage? (Not the computer kind) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Nov 2004, Lee Courtney wrote: > >From Mark Crispin's web page > (http://staff.washington.edu/mrc/important.html) - > > "As of March 2000, twenty-one cases of Hantavirus Pulmonary Syndrome (HPV) > have been reported in Washington State. About 42% of the victims die of HPV. > The carrier is the insidiously cute deer mouse, which has big ears, big > eyes, a white belly, white feet, and a tail with sharply defined white > sides. If you find mouse droppings or mouse nesting material, resist the > urge to sweep it up! You'll kick up tiny particles of mouse urine, > droppings, and saliva into the air, a process known as aerosolization, and > you'll breath it in. If Hantavirus is in those particles, you've set > yourself up to get HPV. Instead, wear a mask and rubber gloves, and > carefully wet down the area with a disinfectant that kills virus (such as > bleach). Take up the contaminated materials with a damp towel, then mop the > area with disinfectant." It should also be noted that Hantavirus is most prominent in the southwestern states of the US. I'm surprised to find any cases at all in Washington state. Here's some data for California: A total of 13 (8 fatal) California residents have been diagnosed with HPS dating back to 1980. Since January 1, 1994, 8 (3 fatal) cases have been documented. Two new HPS cases were identified during September [1995]... http://www.yvwiiusdinvnohii.net/news/nehealth.htm Old data (circa 1995) but I'm sure you get the idea of the rarity of Hantavirus in California, for example. The conclusion is that, yes, you should always be careful, but Hantavirus is not ubiquitous, and you shouldn't panic if you accidentally come in contact with rodent poop. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Nov 20 20:01:24 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200411210229.VAA22632@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> OK, with the chopper array disconnected (plus everything downstream >> of it) the bulb lights very brightly when power's initially applied, >> then gradually extinguishes over a period of about 5 seconds. > Maybe OK. It could just be the charging current of the smoothing > caps (they'll cahrage a lot more slowly with the lamp in series). If we consider the lamp to nominally draw ?A[%], that means we have roughly two coulombs of energy stored in the capacitors. I've seen capacitors of relatively large rated farads*volts, but not often and I think not as big as 2 coulombs. Based on what I have seen I'd expect such a thing to be pretty big (200 cubic inches would be my minimum size guess). How large are the caps in question? That should give some idea how reasonable it is that for what you saw to be just charging current. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B [%] Tony said 100W, and Jules didn't say. Since both the people involved are UK people, I take this to be running on 220V, this reinforced by the statement that the filter caps were running at about 300V; assuming a simple rectifier circuit, that means the input voltage was about 300/sqrt(2)=212+ volts plus diode drops. From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat Nov 20 20:48:14 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: Can you beleive this S^&^! References: <3.0.6.32.20041120165955.00796c50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <002d01c4cf74$8ca3af70$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> That is just plain wrong. As much as I love these type of machines, I must admit this particular one is not even remotely considered "rare". And to think I've given away probably 6 of them in the past year, and still have 4 or 5. And 3 MX-E's coming in shortly. Guess I shouldn't argue with the market, wrong as I think it is. Time to take a few MX's to ebay. $800 bucks?? *sigh* Guess they're gonna get really hard to find and expensive now :\ And this guy's has two bad front panel switches. My recollection is that a mechanical problem with the 21MX series switches means a dead and unfixable panel. They are not a switch that can be repaired, at least no way I have seen to fix them. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 3:59 PM Subject: Can you beleive this S^&^! > . > > $800 with almost two days to go! And this is that INCOMPLETE and > untested HP 1000!!!! Has everybody lost their minds? > > Joe > > > From spectre at floodgap.com Sat Nov 20 21:09:41 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: Dealing with Mouse damage? (Not the computer kind) In-Reply-To: from Lee Courtney at "Nov 20, 4 04:56:31 pm" Message-ID: <200411210309.TAA15414@floodgap.com> > "As of March 2000, twenty-one cases of Hantavirus Pulmonary Syndrome (HPV) > have been reported in Washington State. About 42% of the victims die of HPV. Actually, just call it hantavirus. Where I work (So Cal), HPV to me indicates a sexually transmitted disease (human papilloma virus => genital warts). -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Greek tailor shop: "Euripedes?" "Yes -- Eumenides?" ------------------------ From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sat Nov 20 21:04:37 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics Message-ID: <0411210304.AA19942@ivan.Harhan.ORG> der Mouse wrote: > If we consider the lamp to nominally draw =BDA[%], that means we have ^^^ Tsk tsk tsk. You've posted an 8-bit character, and furthermore one of undefined meaning since there is no charset indication (no Content-Type: header at all in fact). Aren't you a proponent of ASCII mail like your signature says? ASCII is 7-bit. MS, who reads mail directly as it travels over SMTP without any decoding whatsoever, and is annoyed as hell by quoted-printable. From dave04a at dunfield.com Sat Nov 20 21:12:48 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: Dealing with Mouse damage? (Not the computer kind) Message-ID: <20041121031247.GWCE14765.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> [Wow - C.L.C. has an automatic spell checker on the subject line :-] >The conclusion is that, yes, you should always be careful, but Hantavirus >is not ubiquitous, and you shouldn't panic if you accidentally come in >contact with rodent poop. Yeah, thats pretty much what I have determined, although I will be excercising more caution when I find mouse "residue" from now on. This particular machine was in a garage in the middle of Toronto. From what I have read, the virus is carried by deer mice, which are less likely to be found in the city. Also there have been no reports of HPS in Toronto (closest is infected mice found in Northern Ontario which is quite some distance away). So I think the chances of a problem are minimal - nonetheless, since I'm scheduled for checkup this week anyway, I think it's serious enough that I'm going to mention my activities to my doc. For now, the machine is "double bagged" and not in the house - when I can work on it outside and with the right precautions, I will see what I can do with it. One question I have not found an answer to is "How long can the virus remain alive in a dormant state - outside of a host"? Most of the information I have seen suggests washing suspected areas with a 10% bleach solution, and to let it sit for at least 5 mins. Anyone know if this would be safe for a PCB? Assuming it was immediately rinsed afterward with distilled water and well dried? - Unfortunately there's a keyboard included in the PCB assembly... Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From tponsford at theriver.com Fri Nov 19 23:41:20 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: Dealing with Mouse damage? (Not the computer kind) In-Reply-To: <200411210309.TAA15414@floodgap.com> References: <200411210309.TAA15414@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <419ED900.9080102@theriver.com> As far as cleaning the boards, we had a long thread here, last year, google under "mouse doody" and you'll get a lot of tips,suggestions and helpful advice. I live in SE Arizona, which is probably the heartland of the Hantavirus, so taking precautions is a second nature. Every autumn and spring I clean out two large sheds (12x20 and 12x24) and always find I'll have a few machines in storage that have had "visitors" over the summer. Last year I salvaged several alpha boards that had mouse nests. After taking the proper precautions.,ie, wearing gloves and masks, I was able to clean and restore the boards to working order, including one that had almost a hard accretion of mouse feces and urine. I believe that the Hantavirus is most endemic to only a few species of field mice, but then again I don't go out and catalog the wildlife here. I am more likely to get bit by a rattlsnake here, than by contracting the Hantavirus. Either way, I always take precautions when moving around my collection. Who knew that collecting computers could be so dangerous. :-) Cheers Tom Cameron Kaiser wrote: >>"As of March 2000, twenty-one cases of Hantavirus Pulmonary Syndrome (HPV) >>have been reported in Washington State. About 42% of the victims die of HPV. > -- --- Please do not read this sig. If you have read this far, please unread back to the beginning. From james at jdfogg.com Sat Nov 20 21:15:29 2004 From: james at jdfogg.com (james) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: [Amps] FS: Transistors, diodes, IC's (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1101006928.3192.7.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> > There might be some chips-of-interest to various of us on The List - > contact him directly if so. This was rather startling, and it shows I must be getting old. I remember when tubes started getting hard to find. I never thought there'd be a day when 7400 series chips would go the same way. I have to go warm up my Philco radio now, thanks for listening. btw - did anyone else find it difficult to adjust to solid state electronics as I did? From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat Nov 20 21:18:55 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: Can you beleive this S^&^! References: <3.0.6.32.20041120165955.00796c50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <002d01c4cf74$8ca3af70$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <003601c4cf78$d559bdf0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Upon closer examination: 1) It's missing a board in the MEMPRT slot. Probably means the memprt board is missing, but could be the boards were shuffled around by someone who didn't know what they are doing too and it's another board missing. If it's the DCPC or M.E.M. board missing (the only other two boards slots in that area) - well, not a great system to say the least. Makes me suspect someone pulled the board for other use. 2) There appears to be one controller and one memory board. This machine only has 64K (I didn't bother to look up the exact board number - this could be a 64KB or 64KW board - HP labeled them both ways over time). Regardless, 64KB or KW, either way, isnt a lot for an RTE6/VM system. Odd. Almost suspicious. Every RTE6 systems I've gotten my hands on has had almost a full complement of memory. Also, for small memory cables, smaller daisy chain cables were usually used. While not a clear indicator, my first blush gut feeling is someone has pulled memory cards from this unit. 3) Two front panel switches are broken. This is very bad. I don't believe those switches are repairable, and switches 2 & 3 are quite common targets for boot loader use. Wouldn't be fun to try and live without them. 4) The machine is an F series, but, it's missing the Floating Point box. Without it, it ain't really an F machine to me anyways. The floating point unit on the F is a rackmount box racked right along side the cpu. No floating point box, and you almost can just consider it an E series machine which is common as dirt. 5) There is clearly something braindead with this unit. It may be as simple as the battery backup option is installed but no battery is connected. But the "all register select lights on" in the picture is a yellow flag for sure. 6) Very low on the I/O card cage. BACI board is good, but as I've found, can be problematic unless you have a 246X terminal to go with it. Using a regular terminal on a BACI board works for most diagnostics, but definitely doesn't work right for RTE and all the RTE utilities. Bus I/O isn't one of the more fun cards to play with. 7) Seller lists "lots of hardware and software docs on CDROM". Do I smell a bitsavers copier? 8) There is a lot of stuff he lists on the ebay ad that is correct and detailed knowledge. But there is a lot of other things mentioned in the ad copy that indicate someone who doesn't have a CLUE. Either one is perfectly fine, but the dichotomy is a yellow flag to me. All this for $800 bucks? Ludicrous. Based on a long history of acquisitions of HP 21MX gear, I would estimate the cpu with the above deficiencies to go for about $120 to $160 on ebay, and that's allowing for uninformed overzealous bidders. Honestly, I think such a machine is worth around $40 bucks. $800... hell... even $200 for a machine in that state is just... insane. Jay From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Nov 20 21:12:16 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: Daling with Mouse damage? (Not the computer kind) In-Reply-To: <20041120224451.CXGL14765.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041120221216.009be9f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:44 PM 11/20/04 -0500, you wrote: >At 17:09 20/11/2004 -0500, you wrote: >> >> >> Right off the bat I'd be pretty careful of that, in terms of the various >>(some pretty hideous) diseases that rodents carry with them - HantaVirus >>comes immediately to mind. >> >> Me, I'da left the damn thing right where it was... yuk! > >Thats a good point... > >I had no idea it was so bad until I opened it up. Had I known, I might have >left it as well. I hate to toss it, as it's pretty old, but you are right - >I do have to consider the health risk. > >Other than gloves, mask and open-air venting, what precautions can be taken. Use strong antibiological soap. Beta-dine or something similar. Maybe even diluted bleach. >Is it worth trying to rescue, or should I dump it asap. Interested in opinions. You're already into it now and have already ben exposed to anything it carries. I'd go ahead and clean it up enough to test it and then decide if it's worth repairing/restoring. Joe > >Regards, >Dave >-- >dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Vintage computing equipment collector. > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Nov 20 21:15:09 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: New Find! VERY COOL! In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20041120165039.00926100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041120221509.009b63a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:54 AM 11/20/04 -0800, Sellam wrote: >On Sat, 20 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> Instruction Manual for the Computer Control Company DDP-24 General Purpose Computer, 1964. >> AMS-C Computer System Manual (Copy #1!) "Supplements the Apollo Mission Simulator System Manual" and "reflects the addition to the AMS system of a DDP-224 Gerneral Purpose Computer", 1965. >> IBM - Logic Blocks Automated Logic Diagrams SLT, SLD, ASLT, MST, 1971. >> IBM - Service Manual "Selectric" Typewriter Models 7X1, 7X3, 7X5, 8X2, 8X5, 1972. >> Repair Operation Manual for the Jaguar Series 3 V.12 'E' type, 1971. > >Nice! The Computer History Museum got a DDP-24 computer several years >ago. The donor contacted me first but it was a bit out of my league and >more properly belonged at the Museum. This is because it was used to >perform simulations for the Apollo missions. After it was retired, it was >donated to a community college in Florida. The donor ended up with it >when the college decided they no longer wanted it. He trucked it over >from Florida when he moved to California. It remained in his garage for >years until he was about to be foreclosed on. He called me and I then >got in touch with the CHM. We acted quick and were able to get a truck >down to Santa Barbara to pick it up. It now rests safely at the Museum. >Hooray! Interesting. It's very possible that these manuals were used with that very computer. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Nov 20 21:21:16 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: Kildall In-Reply-To: <1100976699.2680.13.camel@fiche.wps.com> References: <715692B6-3AA6-11D9-B14E-000502453125@eoni.com> <715692B6-3AA6-11D9-B14E-000502453125@eoni.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041120222116.009bebb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:51 AM 11/20/04 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 2004-11-19 at 19:44, Jim Arnott wrote: > >> Evans: "Well, I think Gary Kildall is the most abused of all the >> innovators. In justice to him, to his memory, his is the most monstrous >> story in the book. We all of us today benefit from Gary Kildall's >> innovations, and they were basically snitched from him. He was betrayed >> by IBM. He should be celebrated instead of forgotten, and he is the one >> I feel the strongest about. Change the names to Nikola Testla and George Westinghouse and you've got exactly the same story! Joe From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Nov 20 21:23:31 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: <0411210304.AA19942@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0411210304.AA19942@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200411210333.WAA23049@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> If we consider the lamp to nominally draw =BDA[%], that means we have > ^^^ > Tsk tsk tsk. You've posted an 8-bit character, and furthermore one > of undefined meaning since there is no charset indication (no > Content-Type: header at all in fact). As it left here it, like approximately all my mail, had Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit and the copy I got back through the list had the Content-Transfer-Encoding: header moved to the end of the headers, but still had the other two headers untouched - so the list isn't stripping them. I have no idea why/how your copy got mangled. The C-T-E header presumably got moved because software re-encoded the message; the list copy I got ended its headers with X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by huey.classiccmp.org id iAL2n2OQ082278 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA id VAA22655 > Aren't you a proponent of ASCII mail like your signature says? ASCII > is 7-bit. My signature doesn't say I'm a proponent of ASCII mail. It says I'm an..err..conponent? Or whatever the antonym of `proponent' is..of HTML mail. The "ASCII" in it refers to the ribbon ascii-graphic, not to the content of any email. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sat Nov 20 22:34:31 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics Message-ID: <0411210434.AA20117@ivan.Harhan.ORG> der Mouse wrote: > As it left here it, like approximately all my mail, had < > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yeah, I see that message that them indeed, so I probably just overlooked them on the other one, probably because the mailing list filter moved the Content-Transfer-Encoding: to the end. MS From aw288 at osfn.org Sat Nov 20 22:47:31 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: [Amps] FS: Transistors, diodes, IC's (fwd) In-Reply-To: <1101006928.3192.7.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> Message-ID: > This was rather startling, and it shows I must be getting old. I > remember when tubes started getting hard to find. Very few tubes are hard to find...you just might not like to pay the price for some. > I never thought > there'd be a day when 7400 series chips would go the same way. Don't panic. 7400 series stuff will be coming out of the woodwork for many years to come. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From spc at conman.org Sun Nov 21 01:17:18 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: <0411210434.AA20117@ivan.Harhan.ORG> from "Michael Sokolov" at Nov 21, 2004 04:34:31 AM Message-ID: <20041121071718.AD6AF73029@linus.groomlake.area51> It was thus said that the Great Michael Sokolov once stated: > > der Mouse wrote: > > > As it left here it, like approximately all my mail, had > < > > Mime-Version: 1.0 > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Yeah, I see that message that them indeed, so I probably just overlooked > them on the other one, probably because the mailing list filter moved > the Content-Transfer-Encoding: to the end. And why should that matter? There are no defined order for headers, just that they should be there. -spc From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sun Nov 21 07:38:39 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: <20041121071718.AD6AF73029@linus.groomlake.area51> References: <20041121071718.AD6AF73029@linus.groomlake.area51> Message-ID: <200411211340.IAA10868@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> Yeah, I see that message that them indeed, so I probably just >> overlooked them on the other one, probably because the mailing list >> filter moved the Content-Transfer-Encoding: to the end. > And why should that matter? Because Michael Sokolov's header parser is in wetware, which tends to get misled by such things. > There are no defined order for headers, just that they should be > there. True. This is one reason why relying on wetware parsers for such things is..suboptimal. (And actually, what you say is not quite true; it is verboten to reorder Received: headers, and there may be other constraints as well, though none come to mind offhand.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From williams.dan at gmail.com Sun Nov 21 10:13:52 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: DEC LA100 on ebay Message-ID: <26c11a6404112108132072f2a6@mail.gmail.com> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=178&item=5140279859 Wish I had the space for it. It has no bids yet. Dan From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Nov 21 11:34:19 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: HP 110 assistance sought Message-ID: <000701c4cff0$552734f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I just received a mint condition HP 110 plus computer from an ex HP employee. He didn't send me a manual or power cord, so I'm left with some questions I was hoping some folks could help. 1) I was thinking about hooking this up to my HP 1631D logic analyser. Connected to my logic analyser is a 9121 floppy drive and 2225 printer. The 9121 and 2225 are hooked up to the 1631D via HP-IB. My 1631 analyser has an HP-IB port (of course) and an HP-IL port as does the HP110 plus. So can I hook up the 110 plus to the 1631D via HP-IL, and have the laptop see the printer and floppy that are hooked up to the 1631 via HP-IB? In essence I'm asking if the 1631 will act as a hub between the two different types of connection since it has both. I know nothing about HP-IL. 2) Would anyone have a cable to accomplish the above? I have HP-IB cables but no HP-IL cables. 3) Um... uh... I have to admit I can't figure out how to turn on the 110 plus. It would appear to have no power switch at all. If my guess as to the power cable connection on the back is correct, it will require a non-standard power cable of some type. Anyone have a spare or know where I can get one? 4) It'd be nice to find a manual for the unit. Anyone have a spare, or know where a PDF copy is? I'd like to find a complete set of manuals for it and the apps built into the roms. Any help is most appreciated! Regards, Jay West From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 21 12:06:18 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: HP 110 assistance sought In-Reply-To: <000701c4cff0$552734f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> from "Jay West" at Nov 21, 4 11:34:19 am Message-ID: > 1) I was thinking about hooking this up to my HP 1631D logic analyser. > Connected to my logic analyser is a 9121 floppy drive and 2225 printer. The > 9121 and 2225 are hooked up to the 1631D via HP-IB. My 1631 analyser has an > HP-IB port (of course) and an HP-IL port as does the HP110 plus. So can I > hook up the 110 plus to the 1631D via HP-IL, and have the laptop see the > printer and floppy that are hooked up to the 1631 via HP-IB? In essence I'm > asking if the 1631 will act as a hub between the two different types of > connection since it has both. I know nothing about HP-IL. HPIL is sort-of a serial veraion of HPIB (the electrical side is totally different, of course, but the same ideas apply to both interfaces). HP made a very nice translator (the HP81269) between the 2 interfaces which often gives almost true plug-and-play operation (to give you some idea, I connected an HPIB Colorpro plotter to my HP41 (which has an HPIL module and the plotter ROM) using this interface, told it which address the plotter was set to, and got perfect plots with no more work. Many of the instruments that have both interfaces (I know the 3421 data loger, for example, does this) have a sort-of cut-down 82169 built in. However, I doubt it would work as an adapter to link HPIB peripherals to the 110. The HP110 will allow HPIB printers (and plotters) connected via the 82169, you give the address in one of the set-up screens. The Portable Plus (a later machine, somewhat similar to the 110) will use many HP HPIB drives too, if the 82169 has a sufficiently late firmware revision. How to do that is in the Portable Plus TechRef (I have this), I don't know if the 110 will do it too. The normal disk drive for the 110 is the 9114 (either A or B version), which is also used with the 41, 71, 75 calculators. I don't think it's particularly rare. > > 2) Would anyone have a cable to accomplish the above? I have HP-IB cables > but no HP-IL cables. You need 2 HPIL cables. HPIL is a ring (loop), you link the output of one device to the input of the next, then keep on going until you get back to the first device. > > 3) Um... uh... I have to admit I can't figure out how to turn on the 110 > plus. It would appear to have no power switch at all. If my guess as to the It's something like 'hold down the contrast key (the one with the half-moon on it' until it starts up. By now the lead-acid (yes!) battery is probably very dead, though. It can be rebuilt using 3 2.5Ah Cyclon cells. > power cable connection on the back is correct, it will require a > non-standard power cable of some type. Anyone have a spare or know where I > can get one? It's the standard HP 8V charger. The one used with the Topcats (91, 92, 95C, 97, 97S), 41 rechrageable pack, 71, 75C, 75D, most IL peripherals, and so on. Just about every HP calculator hacker has a pile of these (all mine are, of course, 240V input). There were also 3rd-party car chargers (Eramco made one). > > 4) It'd be nice to find a manual for the unit. Anyone have a spare, or know > where a PDF copy is? I'd like to find a complete set of manuals for it and > the apps built into the roms. There's a scheamtic on the HPCC schematics CD-ROM. Apart from that, I'd ask on the MoHPC site, somebody there might have the manuals. I have a lot of manuals for the Portable Plus (including the TechRef and the service manual), which are not directly applicable to the 110, though One last comment. The DE9 connector is a serial (RS232) port, but it's not wired the same way as the normal PC 9 pin serial port. You need to make up a special cable to use it. Yes, I have the pinouts if you want to do this. -tony From lists at microvax.org Sun Nov 21 12:19:53 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie lists) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: cctech archives down Message-ID: Hi, my friend Greg (Beermat) is on cctech and says he's not received any messages since Nov 12th, and that the cctech archives stop at the same time that his feed seems to have done. alex/melt From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Nov 21 12:37:01 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: VAX 6600 UK Wales In-Reply-To: <003601c4cc32$5c85f310$5b01a8c0@flexpc> References: <003601c4cc32$5c85f310$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <1101062221.17498.6.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-11-16 at 23:16 +0000, Antonio Carlini wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1484&item=57313 > 27055&rd=1 > > This looks like a VAX 6000-610 in Wales (UK). > No bids so far. There's a VAX 4000 of some sort > available too. Now rescued and heading toward the museum sometime this week. I'm not sure how they're shifting it for the quoted 65 pounds delivery, but who cares :) It'll be interesting to see how complete it is inside... We got an 11/44 and 11/50 running today, but the Decsystem 570's still driving me nuts! cheers Jules From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Nov 21 12:41:10 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: <200411210333.WAA23049@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <0411210304.AA19942@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <200411210333.WAA23049@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: In message <200411210333.WAA23049@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> der Mouse wrote: > My signature doesn't say I'm a proponent of ASCII mail. It says I'm > an..err..conponent? Or whatever the antonym of `proponent' is..of HTML > mail. The antonym of proponent would be opponent, iirc. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Today is cancelled due to lack of interest! From brad at heeltoe.com Sun Nov 21 12:47:40 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: New Find! VERY COOL! In-Reply-To: Message from "Joe R." of "Sat, 20 Nov 2004 16:50:39 EST." <3.0.6.32.20041120165039.00926100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200411211847.iALIleN3021904@mwave.heeltoe.com> "Joe R." wrote: > AMS-C Computer System Manual (Copy #1!) "Supplements the Apollo Mission Sim >ulator System Manual" and "reflects the addition to the AMS system of a DDP-22 >4 Gerneral Purpose Computer", 1965. I'm sure you know this, but Ron Burkey (http://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/) might be interested if this in any way touches on the AGC (which it may not, I realize). -brad From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Nov 21 12:59:17 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1101063557.17498.25.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-11-21 at 01:42 +0000, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > it is? I suspect the SOC chip is an opto-isolator (it only has 6 pins > > > > and is curiously in a white package). Not sure about the SG chip but I > > > > > > Almost certainly an optoisolator. Probably for the voltage feedback loop > > > (LED on the secondary side of the supply, connected to some kind of > > > voltage sense circuit, transistor connected to the chopper control side > > > of things). > > > > It appears to be controlling the gate of an SCR, the anode of which goes > > to the live input via a thermal resistor (which is placed next to that > > 5W resistor which keeps failing), and the cathode of which goes to the > > 'hot' ground rail. Some form of overload protection, I assume. > > Odd.. I wonder how the voltage feedback works, then. It's _possible_ that > the chopper control circuit is on the isolated side of the PSU (and > therefore no opto-isolator on the voltage feedback loop), > transformer-coupled to the chopper transistors (DEC were fond of doing > this), but I wouldn't assume that without checking That appears to be exactly right. The gates for the 8 chopper transistors link into a small multi-tap transformer. I've not investigated what's on the primary side of that yet. The 'outputs' from the chopper transistors driving the switching transformer also hook back into this small transformer too though via a pair of taps, so I'm not sure what that's about (yet). > The circuit you've found sounds like something designed to blow the fuse > (or at least shut the supply down) if there's a problem. Maybe part of > the crowbar cirucit (although I wouldn't have thought that shorting the > input would shut the outputs down fast enough), maybe something to blow > the fuse if the input votlage selector is set incorrectly (the HP > Integral PSU contains a triac circuit the sole purpose of which is to > blow the mains fuse if machine is connected to 230V mains with the > selector set to 115V). The latter sounds like a distinct possibility. The rectifier circuit is actually as follows, running as a rectifier / doubler depending on the state of J1 (culled from the smpsu repair faq): D1 AC o-----+----|>|-------+---------+-----o DC (+) ~| D2 |+ | +----|<|----+ | +_|_ D3 | | C1 --- +----|>|----|--+ - | | D4 | +--o-o--+ +320 VDC to chopper AC o---+-+----|<|----+ - | J1 | |~ | | +_|_ +-------------|----+ C2 --- | - | +------------+-----o DC (-) ... except in this case C1 and C2 are actually two capacitors in parallel rather than individuals, and J1 is under relay control (I've checked that it isn't accidentally operating and trying to dump 600VDC into things :-) > > > I think what I'd do there is connect a light bulb in place of the > > > resistor (say a normal 100W mains bulb, which should be OK for testing on > > > light/no load), then pull the chopper transistors and power up. If the > > > bulb lights brightly you've probably got a short in the > > > rectifier/smoothing capacitor stage. > > > > OK, with the chopper array disconnected (plus everything downstream of > > it) the bulb lights very brightly when power's initially applied, then > > gradually extinguishes over a period of about 5 seconds. DC output from > > the rectifier is 300V. Possible dried-out smoothing cap? The bridge > > Maybe OK. It could just be the charging current of the smoothing caps > (they'll cahrage a lot more slowly with the lamp in series). I've taken the bridge out of circuit just to be sure and that still checks out on a meter. I've borrowed a pair of monster 5000mfd caps out of a known-good PSU so I can rule out probs with the NCR's caps too. > Now what happens if you add the choppers? try the whole PSU with the bulb in place, or isolate everything downstream of the choppers and just try those hooked to the DC output of the bridge? (i.e. by removing the main switching transformer and the small transformer that drives the gates of the choppers I should be able to isolate everything else) cheers Jules From Pres at macro-inc.com Sun Nov 21 13:12:37 2004 From: Pres at macro-inc.com (Ed Kelleher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: DEC LA100 on ebay In-Reply-To: <26c11a6404112108132072f2a6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041121141118.026af638@192.168.0.1> At 11:13 AM 11/21/2004, you wrote: >http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=178&item=5140279859 > >Wish I had the space for it. It has no bids yet. > >Dan Has this person seen the thing they're listing? Daisywheel?? All the LA100's I've seen and worked on have been dot matrix. Or, is this one of those "cookie" "biscuit" things? Ed K. From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Nov 21 13:12:18 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: HP 110 assistance sought References: Message-ID: <001201c4cffe$05a5a0c0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Thanks for the input Tony! FYI, what I got was a 110 plus, not the 110. Also, here's what's in the rom drawer in case someone is looking for a copy of any chips there: Reflection 1 Memomaker/Time Management HP Series 100 BASIC 123 Lotus Executive Card Manager Looks like my first "go find one" item is that 8V power brick and cable for it :) Jay From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 21 13:42:03 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: <1101063557.17498.25.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Nov 21, 4 06:59:17 pm Message-ID: > > Now what happens if you add the choppers? > > try the whole PSU with the bulb in place, or isolate everything > downstream of the choppers and just try those hooked to the DC output of > the bridge? (i.e. by removing the main switching transformer and the > small transformer that drives the gates of the choppers I should be able > to isolate everything else) I was going to suggest running the entire PSU, but in this case, can you find the drive from the chopper control chip to that driver transformer? If so, disconnect it and see what happens. If the bulb stays bright then, I think you have a short somewhere on the primary side. If not, then either there's a short on the output side (but the protection circuit should cope with that!), or the copper control circuit is doing crazy things. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 21 13:45:11 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: HP 110 assistance sought In-Reply-To: <001201c4cffe$05a5a0c0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> from "Jay West" at Nov 21, 4 01:12:18 pm Message-ID: > > Thanks for the input Tony! > > FYI, what I got was a 110 plus, not the 110. That is a Portable Plus, then. In which case the schematic on the HPCC CD-ROM isn't going to be any help, but many of the manuals I have here might be (no, I am not offering to copy large sections of them...) > > Also, here's what's in the rom drawer in case someone is looking for a copy > of any chips there: > > Reflection 1 > Memomaker/Time Management > HP Series 100 BASIC > 123 Lotus > Executive Card Manager All farily standard, and I am sure you can guess what they are. Reflection, IIRC, is a terminal emulator. > > Looks like my first "go find one" item is that 8V power brick and cable for > it :) The cables are part of the brick. IIRC the US version is a wall-wart with an AC output cable ending in the connector for the machine. The UK version has a mains cable and normal plug, it's not built into the plug like a wall wart. They really are _very_ common units, at least amongst HP calculator enthusiasts.... -tony From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Nov 21 13:56:23 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: Help in Locating Parts Needed Message-ID: <008901c4d004$2f525cf0$08406b43@66067007> Do to damage from shipping I need replacement parts for a IBM 548 Punch card Interpreter and a IBM 5211 Printer. Anyone know some sources for parts? Also would like to get three more cables to hook up the IBM 5251 terminals and a couple more plastic "magazines" used to hold the 8" floppies for reading (have 1). Thanks John From vcf at siconic.com Sun Nov 21 06:15:23 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: <0411210304.AA19942@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Nov 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > der Mouse wrote: > > > If we consider the lamp to nominally draw =BDA[%], that means we have > ^^^ > > Tsk tsk tsk. You've posted an 8-bit character, and furthermore one of > undefined meaning since there is no charset indication (no Content-Type: > header at all in fact). Aren't you a proponent of ASCII mail like your > signature says? ASCII is 7-bit. > > MS, > who reads mail directly as it travels over SMTP without any decoding > whatsoever, and is annoyed as hell by quoted-printable. Zoltar 4, you are needed back on the home planet. Please report to Starbase Ztink5 immediately for further briefing. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sun Nov 21 06:23:10 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: Can you beleive this S^&^! In-Reply-To: <003601c4cf78$d559bdf0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Nov 2004, Jay West wrote: > $800... hell... even $200 for a machine in that state is just... insane. Er, uh, Welcome to eBay! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sun Nov 21 06:23:50 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: New Find! VERY COOL! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041120221509.009b63a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > Interesting. It's very possible that these manuals were used with > that very computer. I was thinking the same thing. I've experience stranger coincidences. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 21 15:09:50 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: New Find! VERY COOL! In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Nov 21, 4 04:23:50 am Message-ID: > > On Sat, 20 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > > > Interesting. It's very possible that these manuals were used with > > that very computer. > > I was thinking the same thing. I've experience stranger coincidences. A somewhat similar thing happeend to me. As everyone here knows, I have a Philips P850 minicomputer, and shortly after getting it I went to a talk on %subject-that-I-forget given by a couple of Philips employees. Anyway, I mentioned to them that I had the P850 and asked if they ever came across any manuals for said machine that were no longer needed, I'd love to have them. Anyway, about a week later I got a large parcel of manuals from Philips, none of them directly applicable to the P850, but for related machines. Amongst them was a P851 user manual with the name 'A Browne' written on the cover. Now skip forwards about 10 years. There was an 'advert' in the CCS journal wondering if anyone was interested in a couple of old Philips minis, a P851 and a P854. I got in touch with the person mentioned and found that he wsan't the owenr of the machines, but that I had to contact somebody else. That I did, and found that, fortunately, I was the first (and only?) person interested, so I made arrangements to collect them. The name of the owner? Arthur Browne. Yes, the user manual has been re-united with the machine :-) -tony From allain at panix.com Sun Nov 21 16:15:57 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: Brazenly OT: ThinkPad760XL local/v/remote screen References: Message-ID: <00c701c4d017$ad663b80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> OK, here's a an OT, I can't wait... I have a seven year old IBM 760XL Laptop somebody gave me for free with all the trimmings (with 2 different docking bays) that likes to switch over to the VGA port every time it boots completely up. The LCD panel is seen for the period right after power-on to the time the OS starts. I haven't seen LCD control in the BIOS start-up (powerswitch+F1) or in the Control Panel. I want to tell it to keep the LCD display on always. Perhaps someone has worked with this particular model? Reply to me directly, if you intuit that this is not a true list question. BTW this is mechanically a pretty interesting machine. You can lift up the keyboard and change out any of this: Batteries,spares, Floppy,CD,HD, and memory, all using no tools at all. Thanks, John A. From gordon at gjcp.net Sun Nov 21 16:31:23 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:48 2005 Subject: Brazenly OT: ThinkPad760XL local/v/remote screen In-Reply-To: <00c701c4d017$ad663b80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <00c701c4d017$ad663b80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <41A1173B.2070802@gjcp.net> John Allain wrote: > OK, here's a an OT, I can't wait... > > I have a seven year old IBM 760XL Laptop somebody > gave me for free with all the trimmings (with 2 different docking bays) > that likes to switch over to the VGA port every time it boots completely > up. The LCD panel is seen for the period right after power-on to the time > the OS starts. I haven't seen LCD control in the BIOS start-up > (powerswitch+F1) or in the Control Panel. I want to tell it to keep the LCD > display on always. > > Perhaps someone has worked with this particular model? > > Reply to me directly, if you intuit that this is not a true list question. > > BTW this is mechanically a pretty interesting machine. You can > lift up the keyboard and change out any of this: Batteries,spares, > Floppy,CD,HD, and memory, all using no tools at all. > > Thanks, > John A. What OS are you running on it? Gordon From wmaddox at pacbell.net Sun Nov 21 17:07:16 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: DEC LA100 on ebay In-Reply-To: <26c11a6404112108132072f2a6@mail.gmail.com> References: <26c11a6404112108132072f2a6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41A11FA4.2060400@pacbell.net> Dan Williams wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=178&item=5140279859 > > Wish I had the space for it. It has no bids yet. > > Dan I have a couple of these, and they are certainly not daisywheel printers. They are "letter quality" dot-matrix. --Bill From nerdware at ctgonline.org Sun Nov 21 17:20:58 2004 From: nerdware at ctgonline.org (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: Brazenly OT: ThinkPad760XL local/v/remote screen In-Reply-To: <00c701c4d017$ad663b80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <41A0CE7A.2896.113725C@localhost> > OK, here's a an OT, I can't wait... > > I have a seven year old IBM 760XL Laptop somebody > gave me for free with all the trimmings (with 2 different docking > bays) that likes to switch over to the VGA port every time it boots > completely up. The LCD panel is seen for the period right after > power-on to the time the OS starts. I haven't seen LCD control in the > BIOS start-up (powerswitch+F1) or in the Control Panel. I want to > tell it to keep the LCD display on always. > There's a key, one of the function keys, I believe, that has a little icon of a monitor above it. If you hold down the "fn" key in the lower left of the keyboard and repeatedly press the other key, you will toggle between LCD only, LCD and external, and external only. Paul Braun From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Nov 21 17:33:07 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: IBM System/34 available References: Message-ID: <010d01c4d022$761faf70$08406b43@66067007> Were you able to save the System/34 ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ross" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 3:46 PM Subject: IBM System/34 available > Folks, > > They keep coming... last week it was a System/38, this week a System/34. > Two of them to be precise, in Ottawa, .ca. > > I'm down for one - but the recycler who is picking them up only wants to > deal with both of them - he needs to recoup scrap value, plus pickup > expenses. > > They're complete, working, with docs and disks. > > Any takers for the second machine? Someone local in NE USA / New England > area would obviously help... > > Mike > http://www.corestore.org > > > From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Nov 21 17:34:52 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: Brazenly OT: ThinkPad760XL local/v/remote screen In-Reply-To: <41A0CE7A.2896.113725C@localhost> References: <41A0CE7A.2896.113725C@localhost> Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Nov 2004, Paul Braun wrote: >> OK, here's a an OT, I can't wait... >> >> I have a seven year old IBM 760XL Laptop somebody >> gave me for free with all the trimmings (with 2 different docking >> > There's a key, one of the function keys, I believe, that has a little > icon of a monitor above it. If you hold down the "fn" key in the lower > left of the keyboard and repeatedly press the other key, you will > toggle between LCD only, LCD and external, and external only. My newer (dearly departed - snifsnif) Thinkpad A21M was used at home with a large monitor and at work standalone. With the FN-monitor set to default to the external, nonetheless if it detected no plug in the DB15, the LCD came on w/out needing to be manually switched. Now, on the Dell Latitude, the same occurs, save that the LCD is active for a short time during the boot process. This is all under Win2KPro. Cheers John PS: www.acsparts.com has Stuff for older IBM laptops, FYI. From williams.dan at gmail.com Sun Nov 21 17:55:32 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: VAX 6600 UK Wales In-Reply-To: <1101062221.17498.6.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <003601c4cc32$5c85f310$5b01a8c0@flexpc> <1101062221.17498.6.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <26c11a64041121155531db7e3d@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:37:01 +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Tue, 2004-11-16 at 23:16 +0000, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1484&item=57313 > > 27055&rd=1 > > > > This looks like a VAX 6000-610 in Wales (UK). > > No bids so far. There's a VAX 4000 of some sort > > available too. > > Now rescued and heading toward the museum sometime this week. I'm not > sure how they're shifting it for the quoted 65 pounds delivery, but who > cares :) > > It'll be interesting to see how complete it is inside... > > We got an 11/44 and 11/50 running today, but the Decsystem 570's still > driving me nuts! > > cheers > > Jules > > I wish I had more space and money the amount of vax stuff on ebay at the moment is astounding there is another 6000 a 7000, plus 2 4000's. I don't think i've seen so much good stuff for a long time. Dan From williams.dan at gmail.com Sun Nov 21 17:57:58 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: Can you beleive this S^&^! In-Reply-To: References: <003601c4cf78$d559bdf0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <26c11a6404112115576316372f@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 04:23:10 -0800 (PST), Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sat, 20 Nov 2004, Jay West wrote: > > > $800... hell... even $200 for a machine in that state is just... insane. > > Er, uh, Welcome to eBay! > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > Exactly, I know if I had one and was stupid enough to put it on ebay I would get ?20 for it. Dan From allain at panix.com Sun Nov 21 18:18:54 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: Brazenly OT: ThinkPad760XL local/v/remote screen References: <41A0CE7A.2896.113725C@localhost> Message-ID: <05ca01c4d028$da753480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > There's a key, one of the function keys, I believe, that has a little > icon of a monitor above it. If you hold down the "fn" key in the lower > left of the keyboard and repeatedly press the other key, you will > toggle between LCD only, LCD and external, and external only. Fn+F7 (&F3) I've been trying that. So... My free system may indeed be broken. or a hook is missing in the OS, if that function needs to operate at that level. John A. From allain at panix.com Sun Nov 21 18:26:33 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: Brazenly OT: ThinkPad760XL local/v/remote screen References: <00c701c4d017$ad663b80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <41A1173B.2070802@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <05d901c4d029$ec7147e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > What OS are you running on it? I've got the prior owners W98 on it. It does the same for boot to floppy(dos) or boot to config. Could be something else like a coincidence where, say, the screen illuminator dies after a few seconds of use, however the LCD always comes up at poweron and never later on. John A. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Nov 21 18:51:21 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: Brazenly OT: ThinkPad760XL local/v/remote screen In-Reply-To: <05d901c4d029$ec7147e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <00c701c4d017$ad663b80$ 8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <41A1173B.2070802@gjcp.net> <05d901c4d029$ec7147e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: > > What OS are you running on it? > >I've got the prior owners W98 on it. I've got a 760CD, and IIRC, the 760's came with Win95, which means that you might want to take a look on the IBM site and download the software for the 760XL. I'm envious about the CD-ROM. That's the one thing I'm missing, somehow I ended up with the CD-ROM from a different model :^( Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Sun Nov 21 20:37:05 2004 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: Brazenly OT: ThinkPad760XL local/v/remote screen In-Reply-To: <05ca01c4d028$da753480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <41A0CE7A.2896.113725C@localhost> <05ca01c4d028$da753480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <659E9AF6-3C2F-11D9-A45F-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> If the screen works during bootup but then stops working once the OS is loaded, you might check to see if the little switch that detects whether the screen is closed is stuck. That happened to my Dell laptop and it would only work with the external monitor. Apparently, the OS thinks that the laptop is closed and shuts down the LCD. On Nov 21, 2004, at 7:18 PM, John Allain wrote: >> There's a key, one of the function keys, I believe, that has a little >> icon of a monitor above it. If you hold down the "fn" key in the >> lower >> left of the keyboard and repeatedly press the other key, you will >> toggle between LCD only, LCD and external, and external only. > > Fn+F7 (&F3) > I've been trying that. So... My free system may indeed be broken. > or a hook is missing in the OS, if that function needs to operate at > that level. > > John A. > > From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Nov 21 21:45:23 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: Brazenly OT: ThinkPad760XL local/v/remote screen Message-ID: <82.1ba9ff4e.2ed2bad3@aol.com> In a message dated 11/21/2004 5:17:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, allain@panix.com writes: OK, here's a an OT, I can't wait... I have a seven year old IBM 760XL Laptop somebody gave me for free with all the trimmings (with 2 different docking bays) that likes to switch over to the VGA port every time it boots completely up. The LCD panel is seen for the period right after power-on to the time the OS starts. I haven't seen LCD control in the BIOS start-up (powerswitch+F1) or in the Control Panel. I want to tell it to keep the LCD display on always. Perhaps someone has worked with this particular model? Reply to me directly, if you intuit that this is not a true list question. BTW this is mechanically a pretty interesting machine. You can lift up the keyboard and change out any of this: Batteries,spares, Floppy,CD,HD, and memory, all using no tools at all. Thanks, John A. ------------------------------ I have this laptop too and have never had this problem. You can switch using a function key, FN+F3 I think. What happens if you toggle through the LCD/external display options? 760XL is not a bad laptop because it does not have the crappy MWAVE stuff. Only problems are the keyboard keys get hard to push due to wear. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Nov 21 13:53:17 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: 8 inch disk drives available in Vancouver Island, BC Message-ID: See below. Reply-to: a7a10658@telus.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:19:38 -0800 From: Gerry Reply-To: ghickford@telus.net To: Vintage Computer Festival Subject: Re: 8 inch disk drives I live on Vancouver Island British Columbia small town of Port Alberni, if you know anyone that can use them and has someway to or someone coming this way they are quite welcome to the drives. Otherwise off to the dump they go. Thanks for your reply and I know it is a long way to ship such an item but they are here for the taking. CHEERS. Gerry On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:24:59 -0800 (PST), Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sun, 21 Nov 2004, Gerry Hickford wrote: > >> Have a Industrial Micro Systems Disk Drives in a approx. 24x24x12 inch >> case with 2 8in. drives in it I will donate if you are interested would >> be glad to get rid of them if they can be of interest to you. > > Hi Gerry. > > I'm not sure I can use them. But I'm sure I can find someone who can. > Where are you located? > -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mross666 at hotmail.com Sun Nov 21 22:12:04 2004 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: DEC colours Message-ID: Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 23:31:27 -0800 (PST) From: "Zane H. Healy" Subject: Re: DEC colours To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Actually Mike isn't the only one that would be interested in knowing the >Pantone colours for DEC HW. Though I'd also like to know the correct >colour >for "China Red" as used in later model PDP-10's. I have it on good authority that the 'Chinese Red' (aka orange!) was identical to the commonly-available car colour known as 'Toyota truck orange' - in fact a post mentioned that cans of the Toyota paint were used for touch-ups in final assembly at DEC, IIRC. That's why it wasn't on my list of colours! Though it would still be nice to have a Pantone number, I agree... Google alt.sys.pdp10 for 'truck orange'. Mike http://www.corestore.org From mross666 at hotmail.com Sun Nov 21 22:30:11 2004 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: IBM 3270 interfacing? In-Reply-To: <200411212106.iALL5DOW089197@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:13:53 +0100 From: Tore S Bekkedal Subject: IBM 3270 interfacing? To: cctech@classiccmp.org >Does anyone know anything about the protocol that the IBM 3270 terminals >uses on the BNC ports labelled I/O? Is there any possibility of hooking >this up to anything modern? 3270 terminals use... 3270 protocol, at the lower levels, to send noises down a coax wire. At the higher levels, you get into heavy-duty blue-glue acronyms you don't want to touch with a condom-covered bargepole. Like BSC, SNA... . Here's the trick. These 3270 terminals hook up, not directly to hosts (well, except for a few special cases), but to terminal controllers. The least ancient of these are type 3174 - search ebay for IBM 3174* and you'll find a few usually. 3174-2x are best. Pay $10-$50 perhaps. These normally hook up directly to mainframes, via bus/tag channels or escon, or remotely to mainframes, via modems and wierd IBM protocols. You want nothing to do with either. The 3174s also came with options for token ring (pretty cheap now) and ethernet (still ruinously expensive) attachment. Get one of those, and get the latest version of the controller microcode (C6.4 I think) from IBM. This magic microcode allows you to also use the 3174 as a telnet client - you boot the controller, power on any coax-attached 3270 terminals - and the terminal displays a screen which essentially allows you to type 'telnet ' and connect, like any other telnet client or serial terminal (but with a funky keyboard!). See http://www.corestore.org/emuterm.htm for some my adventures with this stuff! Mike http://www.corestore.org From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sun Nov 21 23:29:09 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: Moore mycroterm (with pictures!) In-Reply-To: <200411182142.56714.kenziem@sympatico.ca> References: <200411182142.56714.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200411220029.10633.kenziem@sympatico.ca> On Thursday 18 November 2004 21:42, Mike Kenzie wrote: > Does anyone know anything about a Moore mycroterm? I've put up pictures here front: http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/moore1.jpg (65K) inside: http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/moore2.jpg (90K) back: http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/moore3.jpg (61K) The rubber feet on one unit have turned to goo. -- Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 Machines to trade http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/trade.html Open Source Weekend http://www.osw.ca From spectre at floodgap.com Mon Nov 22 00:31:14 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: IBM 3270 interfacing? In-Reply-To: from Mike Ross at "Nov 22, 4 04:30:11 am" Message-ID: <200411220631.WAA13468@floodgap.com> > The 3174s also came with options for token ring (pretty cheap now) and > ethernet (still ruinously expensive) attachment. Get one of those, and get > the latest version of the controller microcode (C6.4 I think) from IBM. This > magic microcode allows you to also use the 3174 as a telnet client - you > boot the controller, power on any coax-attached 3270 terminals - and the > terminal displays a screen which essentially allows you to type 'telnet > ' and connect, like any other telnet client or serial terminal > (but with a funky keyboard!). Hey, way cool! There are lots of 3270 terminals in the hospital where I work and not enough "fat" clients -- something that could let me telnet somewhere I could to useful work would be great. How can I find out if the 3174 I'm connected to supports this? (How can I get to this prompt on an already-running 3174? I presume IT wouldn't like me breaking into comm closets to reset the terminal servers ;) -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Mickey Mouse wears a Spiro Agnew watch. ------------------------------------ From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Nov 22 06:23:53 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: VAX 6600 UK Wales In-Reply-To: <26c11a64041121155531db7e3d@mail.gmail.com> References: <003601c4cc32$5c85f310$5b01a8c0@flexpc> <1101062221.17498.6.camel@weka.localdomain> <26c11a64041121155531db7e3d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1101126233.18438.30.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-11-21 at 23:55 +0000, Dan Williams wrote: > I wish I had more space and money the amount of vax stuff on ebay at > the moment is astounding there is another 6000 a 7000, plus 2 4000's. > I don't think i've seen so much good stuff for a long time. Don't tell me that - we need some space for non-Digital exhibits you know! ;) Current DEC list in one room is something like: classic 8 8a 11/24 11/34 11/40 11/44 (three of them) 11/50 (two) 11/84 Decsystem 570 various microvaxen (I've actually lost track!) Rainbow GIGI Alphastation 600 plus usual DEC peripherals, terminals etc. They'll be joined by another 11/34 and this Vax 6600 this coming weekend, then there's the 11/750 to pick up sometime too... argh! cheers J. From williams.dan at gmail.com Mon Nov 22 06:43:37 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: VAX 6600 UK Wales In-Reply-To: <1101126233.18438.30.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <003601c4cc32$5c85f310$5b01a8c0@flexpc> <1101062221.17498.6.camel@weka.localdomain> <26c11a64041121155531db7e3d@mail.gmail.com> <1101126233.18438.30.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <26c11a64041122044340154fe7@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:23:53 +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Sun, 2004-11-21 at 23:55 +0000, Dan Williams wrote: > > I wish I had more space and money the amount of vax stuff on ebay at > > the moment is astounding there is another 6000 a 7000, plus 2 4000's. > > I don't think i've seen so much good stuff for a long time. > > Don't tell me that - we need some space for non-Digital exhibits you > know! ;) > > Current DEC list in one room is something like: > > classic 8 > 8a > 11/24 > 11/34 > 11/40 > 11/44 (three of them) > 11/50 (two) > 11/84 > Decsystem 570 > various microvaxen (I've actually lost track!) > Rainbow > GIGI > Alphastation 600 > > plus usual DEC peripherals, terminals etc. > > They'll be joined by another 11/34 and this Vax 6600 this coming > weekend, then there's the 11/750 to pick up sometime too... argh! > > cheers > > J. > > I wouldn't want to upset you, but the same seller has put a dual processor 6000 up there now. Dan From brad at heeltoe.com Mon Nov 22 10:35:02 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: washing my keyboard in the dishwasher... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 18 Nov 2004 11:18:05 EST." <200411181621.LAA14557@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <200411221635.iAMGZ2rT007638@mwave.heeltoe.com> Quick update on my keyboard washing experiment: Background: I dumped red wine on a cheapo ps-2 keyboard I got from dell. It's all plastic but I like the "feel". I mopped up the wine but the keyboard would not work the next day - some keys worked, some did not, some produced odd results, some where "sticky". What I did: I read the email on using the dishwasher so I tossed it in the top rack, upside down and added a little liquid soap. I washed it on a normal cycle with no drying heat. Afterward I shook it dry and then put a hair dryer to it for about 10 minutes. I left it on it's side with a towel underneath for a day. After day I then plugged it in and it didn't work. bummer. So, I opened it up. Lots of water still inside. And, a nice thin plastic flexible pc board with lots of black contacts (carbon?). Each key had a little round rubber "dome" with a black spot (carbon?) in the middle. When a key is pressed the key presses the rubber dome and the black spot contacts the flexible pcb and makes contact. I removed and dried the flexible pcb (it still had some minor wine stains which I washed off with water. I left the whole thing open to dry for a few hours. Then I put it back together and it works like a champ! Yea! So, the dishwasher worked well and cleaned out all the crud (and most of the wine) but opening it up seemed to be the correct thing as a final step. The water inside may well have evaporated if I chased it with iso alcohol and left it in the sun but it's cold here now and I didn't do that step. Also, I think the "two layer" construction of this really required opening it up to get it to completely dry. ymmv :-) -brad From lbickley at bickleywest.com Mon Nov 22 10:39:12 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: HP Disk Cartridges available... Message-ID: <200411220839.12996.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Over the weekend I ran accross (5) HP 13356A Disk Cartridges that look to be in excellent condition. The 13356A's are typcially used in HP 3000 Series II/III and are 7 platter/120MB. They are also marked 2613A. I collect DEC, SGI, etc., but not HP, so I didn't pick them up. If you'd like me to attempt to acquire them for you, please contact me off list. I have no business relationship (other than as a customer) with the firm that has the cartridges. Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From ggs at shiresoft.com Mon Nov 22 12:06:43 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: KM11 maintenance module In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1101146803.5962.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-11-16 at 16:25, Tony Duell wrote: > > See if you can find the cpu manuals for an 11/70. There are some > > documentation on the KM11 in those, I seem to remember. > > The original KM11 (I was given a pair _after_ making my homebrew > version..) consists of 2 boards -- IIRC W130 and W131. One contains the > switches and lamps, the other the driver transistors, etc. The latter > goes into the backplane slot and had an edge connector on the end to > connec to the former. I've done a version based on Tony's design. I'm about to send the board out to be fab'd. I've sized it so that it should be able to take the original overlays too. I'll be offering the PCB's (with schematic, BOM, etc) or PCB + parts + docs for sale once I get the first boards back and debugged. The PCBs will be nice with silk screen, solder mask and gold edge fingers. > > I think I got the schematics in the RK11-C printset, certainly it's > either there or in the 11/45 prints. > > -tony -- TTFN - Guy From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Mon Nov 22 12:08:37 2004 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: Brazenly OT: ThinkPad760XL local/v/remote screen In-Reply-To: <00c701c4d017$ad663b80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <00c701c4d017$ad663b80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <41A22B25.4060307@sbcglobal.net> Fn+F7 is the LCD/Monitor switch, at least on my 760EL (which I happen to be looking to get rid of*). Also, download the software for your laptop form IBM. YOu can search for it there by the machine type, which is on a sticker underneath, probably next to the serial number. This includes a program to do a lot of the BIOS configuration (and more) right from within Windows. I would also try updating the BIOS on it. With all the Tinkpads I've worked on, many times the BIOS update fixes wierd problems, even if you're just re-applying the same version. *My 760EL - internal floppy, external floppy, CD-ROM, 2 batteries (I think one is dead), 2 hardrives, DockII docking station (with monitor support stand). Make me an offer... Please! John Allain wrote: > OK, here's a an OT, I can't wait... > > I have a seven year old IBM 760XL Laptop somebody > gave me for free with all the trimmings (with 2 different docking bays) > that likes to switch over to the VGA port every time it boots completely > up. The LCD panel is seen for the period right after power-on to the time > the OS starts. I haven't seen LCD control in the BIOS start-up > (powerswitch+F1) or in the Control Panel. I want to tell it to keep the LCD > display on always. > > Perhaps someone has worked with this particular model? > > Reply to me directly, if you intuit that this is not a true list question. > > BTW this is mechanically a pretty interesting machine. You can > lift up the keyboard and change out any of this: Batteries,spares, > Floppy,CD,HD, and memory, all using no tools at all. > > Thanks, > John A. -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Nov 22 11:57:25 2004 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: HP Disk Cartridges available... In-Reply-To: <200411220839.12996.lbickley@bickleywest.com> (Lyle Bickley's message of "Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:39:12 -0800") References: <200411220839.12996.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: <200411221757.iAMHvPRO058831@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Lyle Bickley wrote: > Over the weekend I ran accross (5) HP 13356A Disk Cartridges that look to be > in excellent condition. The 13356A's are typcially used in HP 3000 Series > II/III and are 7 platter/120MB. They are also marked 2613A. 2613A? That would be a printer, probably one of the Data Products drum printers. Anyway, based on the "7 platter/120MB" note, these would be the packs used in HP 7925 disc drives. Yes, that would be contemporary with HP 3000 Series II/III systems, but the drives held on a bit longer than that (where I worked through most of the 1980s, we used one as the system disc on a 3000/64 when that replaced a Series III, and carried on using it that way for some years). Were they usable with 2000 Access systems? I don't need 'em. Too much crap, too little time. -Frank McConnell From james at jdfogg.com Mon Nov 22 12:13:20 2004 From: james at jdfogg.com (james) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: washing my keyboard in the dishwasher... In-Reply-To: <200411221635.iAMGZ2rT007638@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200411221635.iAMGZ2rT007638@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <1101147199.2319.2.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> > I removed and dried the flexible pcb (it still had some minor wine > stains which I washed off with water. I left the whole thing open to > dry for a few hours. > > Then I put it back together and it works like a champ! Yea! Yes, they do hold water, all models. I take the keycaps off and put them in the silverware basket and take the plastic halves apart and remove the PCB(s). I do recommend the alcohol though. Water contains impurities that may be conductive. Sorry I didn't reply to the other posts, my bankrupt cablemodem provider (Adelphia) can't seem to keep my connection up for any length of time for over a week now. From gary.katz at csun.edu Mon Nov 22 12:47:23 2004 From: gary.katz at csun.edu (Gary S Katz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: Maynard Maynstream 1300 DAT / Archive Python 25588-005 Message-ID: <44f0b105.a35c4956.81be300@petrel.csun.edu> Greetings! I have an old (ca 1992) SCSI-1 Maynard Maynstream DAT drive that uses DDS1 DAT carts without software. The drive is up and running in a Pentium 200MMX machine but we no longer have the TMENU MSDOS software that was used to write files to tape back then. Of course, we now need to get some of the data off of the drives. I've followed Archive via the web from Archive to Conner to Seagate to a "final destination" at a company called Certron. Needless to say, the tech support people at Certron have no idea where to find the software. By any chance, have any classic-comp'ers used this drive under DOS? Any other ideas where I may find the software? Thanks! -gk ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gary S. Katz, Ph.D. 326 Sierra Tower Assistant Professor (818) 677-2964 office Dept. of Psychology (818) 677-2827 dept California State University - Northridge (818) 677-2829 fax 18111 Nordhoff Street Northridge, CA 91330 http://www.csun.edu/~gk45683 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aek at spies.com Mon Nov 22 12:59:12 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: Maynard Maynstream 1300 DAT / Archive Python 25588-005 Message-ID: <20041122185912.B1F3E47B8@spies.com> This should be a reminder to people to watch for old copies of backup software, and the trash bits of failed companies to try to document on-tape file formats. I gave up using anything but documented tape formats for my backups exactly because I was unable to get documentation for the backup file format used by Retrospect. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Nov 22 13:47:48 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: Minolta PCW-1 and PCW-2 machines Message-ID: <1101152868.18453.68.camel@weka.localdomain> Just been offered a Minolta PCW-1 and PCW-2 - anyone know if they're typewriters or computers? :-) Google seems somewhat confused either way. The chap who has them calls them desktop computers, but a) I didn't know that Minolta ever made 'real' machines, and b) Google turns up a lot of hits about typewriter ribbons in relation to the PCW-2... ta J. -- I'm sorry for all the times I intentionally ducked underneath the sneeze guard at a salad bar and sneezed on everything until I couldn't sneeze any more. I have a problem. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Nov 22 15:58:00 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: FW: Sanyo MBC 4050 computer available (Glasgow) Message-ID: <1101160680.18438.86.camel@weka.localdomain> Hi all, Chap in Glasgow's got a Sanyo MBC 4050 CP/M machine which is surplus to requirements - anyone want? Apparently it's got all disks (OS, WordStar, CalcStar, Reportstar and Datastar) and docs, plus the guy thinks he has the original packaging in his loft. It's got a daisywheel printer with it too. His name's Richard Service - drop him an email directly at richardservice@ntlworld.com if you're interested. No connection with him - he conacted the museum with a view to donating it, but we're swamped with CP/M machines as it is! cheers, Jules From tosteve at yahoo.com Mon Nov 22 16:40:39 2004 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: cool - Classic Computers 2005 Calendar Message-ID: <20041122224039.75467.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> I always wanted to do this, but now it is too late! Looks like a nice calendar featuring home computers from the 70's and 80's (No PDPs) - $12.99. I have no affiliation with this website. http://www.digicraft.com.au/calendars/ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Nov 22 17:16:18 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: KM11 maintenance module In-Reply-To: <1101146803.5962.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1101146803.5962.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20041122231618.GB32171@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Nov 22, 2004 at 10:06:43AM -0800, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > I've done a version based on Tony's design. I'm about to send the board > out to be fab'd. I've sized it so that it should be able to take the > original overlays too. > > I'll be offering the PCB's (with schematic, BOM, etc) or PCB + parts + > docs for sale once I get the first boards back and debugged. > > The PCBs will be nice with silk screen, solder mask and gold edge > fingers. As I have an RK11C, I'll be interested in one, perhaps two... blank PCB only, of course. Looking forward to it... saves me the time of wiring up one by hand. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 22-Nov-2004 23:14 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -35.2 F (-37.4 C) Windchill -51.1 F (-46.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 4 kts Grid 067 Barometer 682.5 mb (10532 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Nov 22 16:47:34 2004 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: I finally got something on topic outside Token Ring! hehe... In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041115192215.02e658b0@mail.n.ml.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20041122144205.02dc3130@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 07:25 PM 11/15/04 -0500, John Boffemmyer IV wrote: >it is an IBM PS/2 Model 70, found it is lacking the SCSI card Check out the MCA Mafia, its a whole bunch of sites that together have MCA totally nailed down. http://www.mcamafia.de/mcapage0/mcamafia.htm From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Nov 22 18:04:21 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: Maynard Maynstream 1300 DAT / Archive Python 25588-005 In-Reply-To: <20041122185912.B1F3E47B8@spies.com> References: <20041122185912.B1F3E47B8@spies.com> Message-ID: <50d612124d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <20041122185912.B1F3E47B8@spies.com> aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) wrote: > I gave up using anything but documented tape formats for my backups > exactly because I was unable to get documentation for the backup file > format used by Retrospect. tar and gzip then? :) Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... My mother is NEVER on time! - Worf From fm.arnold at gmx.net Mon Nov 22 18:35:09 2004 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: KM11 maintenance module Message-ID: > >Message: 2 >Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 00:25:22 +0000 (GMT) >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) >Subject: Re: KM11 maintenance module >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain > >> See if you can find the cpu manuals for an 11/70. There are some >> documentation on the KM11 in those, I seem to remember. > >The original KM11 (I was given a pair _after_ making my homebrew >version..) consists of 2 boards -- IIRC W130 and W131. One contains the >switches and lamps, the other the driver transistors, etc. The latter >goes into the backplane slot and had an edge connector on the end to >connec to the former. > >I think I got the schematics in the RK11-C printset, certainly it's >either there or in the 11/45 prints. > >-tony > The KM11 is also present in the 11/05 (11/10) printset I have. I would also expect this to appear in the 11/35 (11/40) printset too. The interesting thing is that in every different place the KM11 is used, a different overlay will redefine the meaning of the lamps, so in fact you will need this picture of the overlays too! Frank From aek at spies.com Mon Nov 22 19:59:19 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: Maynard Maynstream 1300 DAT / Archive Python 25588-005 Message-ID: <20041123015919.4C13E47CB@spies.com> tar and gzip then? :) -- No smiley necessary. I have tarballs I wrote in the late 70s that are still completely usable. I don't use compression on any archive I care about. If you get a bad block, everything after it is unrecoverable if it has been compressed. Tar also has the advantage that the file information is distributed across the archive, and can be resynchronized at block boundaries. From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Nov 22 20:18:26 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: HP Disk Cartridges available... References: <200411220839.12996.lbickley@bickleywest.com> <200411221757.iAMHvPRO058831@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <001f01c4d102$b749e6b0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > 2613A? That would be a printer, probably one of the Data Products drum > printers. I consider myself lucky to have a 2610. The stand weighs almost as much as the printer. Both together are heavier than a fully loaded 6 foot rack :) > Were they usable with 2000 Access systems? I know the 7920's worked with 2000 Access, I am not sure, but I believe the 7925's worked as well. I can check if anyone is interested. > I don't need 'em. Too much crap, too little time. I definitely want a 7925 drive. Once I find one, THEN I'd be interested in the media :) Jay West From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Nov 22 20:18:30 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: I finally got something on topic outside Token Ring! hehe... In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041115192215.02e658b0@mail.n.ml.org> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20041115192215.02e658b0@mail.n.ml.org> Message-ID: <200411221818300165.056D29BB@192.168.42.129> Hi, John, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 15-Nov-04 at 19:25 John Boffemmyer IV wrote: >it is an IBM PS/2 Model 70, found it is lacking the SCSI card he thought >was in there (he had 2 and the other one went to a relative). Looking for >a compatible SCSI card with standard 50 pin header for MCA as I don't >possess the funky ribbon for the non-standard edge-connector type that IBM sold. I may have a line on the MCA SCSI adapter AND the edge-connectored cable. RE-PC may be able to help with both. Failing that, you would want an Adaptec AHA-1640. >That being said, since it is a model 70, anyone know where I could find >the config disk for it? I believe I have that one in my archives. How big a file attachment can you accept? Keep the peace(es). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 22 20:48:37 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: HP Disk Cartridges available... In-Reply-To: <001f01c4d102$b749e6b0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <200411220839.12996.lbickley@bickleywest.com> <200411221757.iAMHvPRO058831@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041122214837.00793100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:18 PM 11/22/04 -0600, you wrote: >> 2613A? That would be a printer, probably one of the Data Products drum >> printers. >I consider myself lucky to have a 2610. The stand weighs almost as much as >the printer. Both together are heavier than a fully loaded 6 foot rack :) > >> Were they usable with 2000 Access systems? >I know the 7920's worked with 2000 Access, I am not sure, but I believe the >7925's worked as well. I can check if anyone is interested. > >> I don't need 'em. Too much crap, too little time. >I definitely want a 7925 drive. Once I find one, THEN I'd be interested in >the media :) I offered one a few weeks ago but no one was interested. Dan Cahoe (sp?) has a 7925. I expect that he'd like to have the cartridges, Joe From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon Nov 22 21:26:03 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: Maynard Maynstream 1300 DAT / Archive Python 25588-005 In-Reply-To: <20041123015919.4C13E47CB@spies.com> References: <20041123015919.4C13E47CB@spies.com> Message-ID: <200411230327.WAA29505@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I don't use compression on any archive I care about. If you get a > bad block, everything after it is unrecoverable if it has been > compressed. Depends on the compression mechanism. With bzip2, for example, you generally lose the rest of that block, but later blocks should be fine. > Tar also has the advantage that the file information [...] can be > resynchronized at block boundaries. Not reliably, unless you never roll one tar archive (or other thing containing block-aligned tar header blocks) into another. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Nov 22 21:34:20 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: HP Disk Cartridges available... References: <200411220839.12996.lbickley@bickleywest.com><200411221757.iAMHvPRO058831@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <3.0.6.32.20041122214837.00793100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000c01c4d10d$51a5b1d0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Joe wrote (re: 7925) > I offered one a few weeks ago but no one was interested. You offered one that had been (and I quote) "pushed off the back of a truck and landed upside down". Hence, my hesitancy. Those things weigh a ton, so if I was going to pay shipping I'd prefer one that didn't have it's wings ;) electronics, no big deal. Mechanics... possibly toasted. In retrospect, I prolly should have taken it! But honestly and seriously, the offer was much appreciated Joe :) From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 22 21:37:01 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: cool - Classic Computers 2005 Calendar In-Reply-To: <20041122224039.75467.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Nov 2004, steven wrote: > I always wanted to do this, but now it is too late! > > Looks like a nice calendar featuring home computers > from the 70's and 80's (No PDPs) - $12.99. > > I have no affiliation with this website. > > http://www.digicraft.com.au/calendars/ I've been trying to do something like that since 1999. Too many projects, too little time. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Nov 22 21:36:22 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: classiccmp server migrations Message-ID: <001801c4d10d$9aa79330$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I am moving the websites off the old classiccmp server and onto the new one. This will be protracted over several days as I have time. After the sites are moved, then I'll dig into the mailman setup. So, anyone who has a free website on the classiccmp server (you all know who you are), please dont make changes to your sites for a few days. If you do, not a huge deal, just let me know and I'll make another pass for your site. Jay From r_a_feldman at hotmail.com Mon Nov 22 21:40:05 2004 From: r_a_feldman at hotmail.com (Robert Feldman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: DEC colours Message-ID: Companies like Munsel and Macbeth make special color cards for manufacturers. I remember seeing one made for Matel in "Barbie Pink" at the Munsel booth at a National Design Engineering Show some years ago here in Chicago. More recently, I've seen a color card set, the SalmoFan ™ (http://www.smithandlowney.com/salmon/), for grading the color of farm-raised salmon. Message: 26 Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:04:31 -0800 (PST) From: Vintage Computer Festival Subject: Re: DEC colours To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, John Allain wrote: >like the problem of describing right and left to an alien. Where do you >get the reference colors in the first place? Guess one of us has to find >a vendor for the three swatches to mail to requesting parties. And how do we know if DEC maintained the same reference colors throughout their company history? And if so, perhaps they faded over time? Maybe someone played shenanigans and switched them out with similar but different colors at some point? Who knows? Who cares! Color matching by eye is "good enough". -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival From dave04a at dunfield.com Mon Nov 22 21:48:15 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: Dragon32 Power-Supply Message-ID: <20041123034814.WNGI12981.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Can anyone give me the pinout and details of the power supply used on the Dragon32 (have a machine with no supply) - It has a 9-pin 'D' connector on the back of the machine for the power input! Searched and found some hardware info, but not the power information... Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From news at computercollector.com Mon Nov 22 23:32:27 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: cool - Classic Computers 2005 Calendar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041123053227.13326.qmail@web52807.mail.yahoo.com> Hans, are you reading this? Didn't you make a calendar? --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 22 Nov 2004, steven wrote: > > > I always wanted to do this, but now it is too late! > > > > Looks like a nice calendar featuring home computers > > from the 70's and 80's (No PDPs) - $12.99. > > > > I have no affiliation with this website. > > > > http://www.digicraft.com.au/calendars/ > > I've been trying to do something like that since 1999. Too many projects, > too little time. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers > ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org > ] > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit the museums directory and read about past events at our web site: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 585 readers and counting! From wpileggi at juno.com Mon Nov 22 23:56:28 2004 From: wpileggi at juno.com (Bill Pileggi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: IBM PC, MAC+, Misc related items free for postage Message-ID: <20041122.215634.21701.154248@webmail13.lax.untd.com> These items free for postage from 19001 - manuals/media sent book/media rate. All in good or better condition. Macintosh Plus 1MB/kybd/mouse/cables/dustcover. Works, no boot floppies, 20 pounds. IBM PC "B", mfd. May, 1985. Works. 23-30 pounds. IBM AT Technical Reference 3 ring binder - purple. Empty. IBM Personal Computer AT - Guide to Operations. Full manual with floppies - slipcase. IBM Proprinter X24E and XL24E Hardware Maintenance and Service. Full manual - slipcase. Couple hundred 360Kb floppies, used. Email me off-list. Thanks, Bill. ________________________________________________________________ Juno Platinum $9.95. Juno SpeedBand $14.95. Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com! Look for special offers at Best Buy stores. From spectre at floodgap.com Tue Nov 23 00:55:48 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: cool - Classic Computers 2005 Calendar In-Reply-To: <20041123053227.13326.qmail@web52807.mail.yahoo.com> from Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter at "Nov 22, 4 09:32:27 pm" Message-ID: <200411230655.WAA13790@floodgap.com> > > > I always wanted to do this, but now it is too late! > > > Looks like a nice calendar featuring home computers > > > from the 70's and 80's (No PDPs) - $12.99. > > > I have no affiliation with this website. > > > http://www.digicraft.com.au/calendars/ > > I've been trying to do something like that since 1999. Too many projects, > > too little time. > Hans, are you reading this? Didn't you make a calendar? I just received mine (ordered it last week). Aside from the odd typo, it's rather cool. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- In memory of John Banner --------------------------------------------------- From gordon at gjcp.net Tue Nov 23 02:48:02 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: FW: Sanyo MBC 4050 computer available (Glasgow) In-Reply-To: <1101160680.18438.86.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1101160680.18438.86.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <41A2F942.1@gjcp.net> Jules Richardson wrote: > Hi all, > > Chap in Glasgow's got a Sanyo MBC 4050 CP/M machine which is surplus to > requirements - anyone want? Apparently it's got all disks (OS, WordStar, > CalcStar, Reportstar and Datastar) and docs, plus the guy thinks he has > the original packaging in his loft. It's got a daisywheel printer with > it too. > > His name's Richard Service - drop him an email directly at > richardservice@ntlworld.com if you're interested. > > No connection with him - he conacted the museum with a view to donating > it, but we're swamped with CP/M machines as it is! > > cheers, > > Jules > I've sent him an email. I'm in Glasgow too, and have a car so I can go and pick it up. I also have a fairly large spare bedroom which is given over to my computers and music stuff, and a very understanding girlfriend... Gordon. From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Nov 23 04:55:41 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:49 2005 Subject: test Message-ID: test, pse ignore -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Nov 23 06:30:55 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1101213055.20058.27.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-11-21 at 19:42 +0000, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Now what happens if you add the choppers? > > > > try the whole PSU with the bulb in place, or isolate everything > > downstream of the choppers and just try those hooked to the DC output of > > the bridge? (i.e. by removing the main switching transformer and the > > small transformer that drives the gates of the choppers I should be able > > to isolate everything else) > > I was going to suggest running the entire PSU, but in this case, can you > find the drive from the chopper control chip to that driver transformer? Yep. It's a couple of tracks between the SG3846 PWM IC (which I've found a datasheet for now) and the driver transformer, but I can cut them and bridge them later. Interestingly, there's no feedback between the low-voltage side of the switching transformer and the circuitry surrounding that SOC603B 6-pin IC, so maybe it isn't an opto-isolator at all. All the circuitry surrounding it is on the 'hot' side of things, and its sole function seems to be to control the SCR which sits between the live input to the PSU and ground on the bridge output. The main PSU board seems to be responsible for generating +5V only; the second board (which I haven't even looked at much yet) handles +12V and the battery backup control. I think whoever made this thing was involved in some "design the most complicated PSU possible" competition :) I need to check for shorts on that second board, though. It gets fed DC output from the bridge, but when I tried the lightbulb trick the other day I didn't have it plugged in. Quite possible there's a short on that board and the 'main' board is fine... it's something I should rule out sooner rather than later! cheers Jules From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 23 06:51:59 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: FW: Sanyo MBC 4050 computer available (Glasgow) In-Reply-To: <41A2F942.1@gjcp.net> References: <1101160680.18438.86.camel@weka.localdomain> <1101160680.18438.86.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041123075159.009c0d60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:48 AM 11/23/04 +0000, you wrote: >Jules Richardson wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> Chap in Glasgow's got a Sanyo MBC 4050 CP/M machine which is surplus to >> requirements - anyone want? Apparently it's got all disks (OS, WordStar, >> CalcStar, Reportstar and Datastar) and docs, plus the guy thinks he has >> the original packaging in his loft. It's got a daisywheel printer with >> it too. >> >> His name's Richard Service - drop him an email directly at >> richardservice@ntlworld.com if you're interested. >> >> No connection with him - he conacted the museum with a view to donating >> it, but we're swamped with CP/M machines as it is! >> >> cheers, >> >> Jules >> > >I've sent him an email. I'm in Glasgow too, and have a car so I can go >and pick it up. I also have a fairly large spare bedroom which is given >over to my computers and music stuff, and a very understanding girlfriend... They're understanding as long as they're girlfriends. When they become wifes it's a whole different story! Joe From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Nov 22 19:58:03 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: IBM 3270 interfacing? In-Reply-To: References: <200411212106.iALL5DOW089197@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20041123015803.GC6693@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Nov 22, 2004 at 04:30:11AM +0000, Mike Ross wrote: > 3270 terminals use... 3270 protocol, at the lower levels, to send noises > down a coax wire. At the higher levels, you get into heavy-duty blue-glue > acronyms you don't want to touch with a condom-covered bargepole. Like BSC, > SNA... . Hey! I used to *make* that kind of stuff (68000-based protocol engine cards for PDP-11s and VAXen that talked HASP, 3780, SNA...) Our SNA products would pretend to be PU Type 2s (like a 3174) and talk to something like a 37x5 I/O front end box (PU Type 4) that was channel attached to a mainframe. Our target market for this line was VAX users who needed to login to some departmental mainframe somewhere, but didn't want to spend the bucks to have an independent comms arrangement terminating in another terminal on their desk (back when a VT100 was $1700, let alone what a real 3270 would cost). I learned more about the bit-level detail about SNA than anyone would ever want to, but at the time, since we didn't have a single inch of Ethernet, it was pretty interesting (100% of our box-to-box comms were sync (DDCMP and IBM protocols) or async (Kermit)). > The 3174s also came with options for token ring (pretty cheap now) and > ethernet (still ruinously expensive) attachment. Get one of those, and get > the latest version of the controller microcode (C6.4 I think) from IBM. > This magic microcode allows you to also use the 3174 as a telnet client - > you boot the controller, power on any coax-attached 3270 terminals - and > the terminal displays a screen which essentially allows you to type 'telnet > ' and connect, like any other telnet client or serial terminal > (but with a funky keyboard!). Cool... that could be fun... I used to have a couple of Memorex 3270 clones in the attic - not sure if they are still there - haven't dug that deep in a few years. If I run across them again, that would be a neat application. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 23-Nov-2004 01:44 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -35.8 F (-37.7 C) Windchill -55.8 F (-48.8 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 5.8 kts Grid 063 Barometer 682.4 mb (10536 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Nov 23 08:08:37 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: cool - Classic Computers 2005 Calendar References: <20041122224039.75467.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <16803.17509.470000.699899@gargle.gargle.HOWL> --text follows this line-- Vintage> On Mon, 22 Nov 2004, steven wrote: >> I always wanted to do this, but now it is too late! >> >> Looks like a nice calendar featuring home computers from the 70's >> and 80's (No PDPs) - $12.99. >> >> I have no affiliation with this website. >> >> http://www.digicraft.com.au/calendars/ Vintage> I've been trying to do something like that since 1999. Too Vintage> many projects, too little time. I have a very similar looking calendar from about 20 years ago, published by a local (Amherst, NH) person. paul From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Nov 23 08:10:45 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: FW: Sanyo MBC 4050 computer available (Glasgow) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041123075159.009c0d60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <1101160680.18438.86.camel@weka.localdomain> <1101160680.18438.86.camel@weka.localdomain> <3.0.6.32.20041123075159.009c0d60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1101219045.20041.39.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-11-23 at 07:51 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > At 08:48 AM 11/23/04 +0000, you wrote: > >Jules Richardson wrote: > >> Hi all, > >> > >> Chap in Glasgow's got a Sanyo MBC 4050 CP/M machine which is surplus to > >> requirements - anyone want? Apparently it's got all disks (OS, WordStar, > >> CalcStar, Reportstar and Datastar) and docs, plus the guy thinks he has > >> the original packaging in his loft. It's got a daisywheel printer with > >> it too. > >> > >> His name's Richard Service - drop him an email directly at > >> richardservice@ntlworld.com if you're interested. > >> > >> No connection with him - he conacted the museum with a view to donating > >> it, but we're swamped with CP/M machines as it is! > >> > >> cheers, > >> > >> Jules > >> > > > >I've sent him an email. I'm in Glasgow too, and have a car so I can go > >and pick it up. I also have a fairly large spare bedroom which is given > >over to my computers and music stuff, and a very understanding girlfriend... > > They're understanding as long as they're girlfriends. When they become wifes it's a whole different story! Actually, I believe that's exactly why this one is up for grabs... :) Joe - any ideas why text in emails that you send doesn't wrap properly, whilst text in emails from everyone else does? It's driving me nuts! :) seeya J. From spectre at floodgap.com Tue Nov 23 08:33:10 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: IBM 3270 interfacing? In-Reply-To: <20041123015803.GC6693@bos7.spole.gov> from Ethan Dicks at "Nov 23, 4 01:58:03 am" Message-ID: <200411231433.GAA12000@floodgap.com> > Cool... that could be fun... I used to have a couple of Memorex 3270 clones > in the attic - not sure if they are still there - haven't dug that deep in > a few years. If I run across them again, that would be a neat application. I had a nightmare about 3270 terminals last night. I'm serious. I don't know how they turned up in there, but the light pen was causing trouble. Over in LargeNationalHMO where I (over)work as a sleepless resident, we're riddled with Memorex Telex boxen, although they were slowly replaced by newer "MTX" boxes that attach to standard SVGA monitors (very convenient), but still have the light pen and standard 3270 keyboard. I've subtly tried finding out where the terminal servers reside, but I suspect a lot of it is going to be phased out when they go to a full electronic medical record -- right now it's about half and half on an older MVS system. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Ergo, cogito sum! (Cogito.) ------------------------------------------------ From jrice54 at vzavenue.net Tue Nov 23 08:20:16 2004 From: jrice54 at vzavenue.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: FW: Sanyo MBC 4050 computer available (Glasgow) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041123075159.009c0d60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <1101160680.18438.86.camel@weka.localdomain> <1101160680.18438.86.camel@weka.localdomain> <3.0.6.32.20041123075159.009c0d60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <41A34720.20700@vzavenue.net> Joe R. wrote: > They're understanding as long as they're girlfriends. When they become wifes it's a whole different story! > > Joe > > > > Sometimes it takes several versions of SWMBO before you get an understanding one. I'm at version 2.0 and think I found a keeper. James -- www.blackcube.org The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers From williams.dan at gmail.com Tue Nov 23 08:44:20 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: Help needed in the US Message-ID: <26c11a6404112306446df1dc5d@mail.gmail.com> I have bought some cables on ebay but the seller will only ship with ups. The package is about 5kg. UPS are quoting over $100. Can anyone kindly receive them for me and forward on to me in the UK. They are 5 6ft dssi cables. Thanks Dan From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Nov 23 10:17:58 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: FW: Sanyo MBC 4050 computer available (Glasgow) Message-ID: <0411231617.AA23168@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Joe R. wrote: > They're understanding as long as they're girlfriends. When they become > wifes it's a whole different story! Is it part of the marriage vows to support each other's Life's Work? Did you make it clear upfront when you first met that running classic computers is your Life's Work and Mission and that it is what you would be doing together for the rest of your life ("till death do you part")? MS From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Nov 23 10:26:39 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: cool - Classic Computers 2005 Calendar In-Reply-To: References: <20041122224039.75467.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041123102608.05187658@pc> At 09:37 PM 11/22/2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >I've been trying to do something like that since 1999. Too many projects, >too little time. The obvious answer is to talk to them to re-publish and/or redistribute in the States. Fix the errors, 'mericanize the English, you're all set to sell to geek museums. Producing such a calendar could be a lot of work... finding the cherry systems, taking a great photo, printing the color correctly, etc. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Nov 23 10:37:23 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: FYI: identity theft Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041123102938.0517b8b0@pc> Bound to happen! A few odd charges showed up on my business credit card. I caught it quickly, then went into gumshoe mode. The largest charge was to Staples.com. Someone knew all my info: name, address, credit card number, three-digit code from the back, so Staples processed the order. They had the new iPod sent to a fellow in Los Angeles. Said fellow was surprised to hear my card had been used: Why, he'd recently bought an iPod on eBay at a great price. The seller wanted to be paid via eGold.com, and had sent detailed instructions as how to send money to an exchange company that would convert dollars to eGold, which could be used to pay him. I tracked down several other eBay buyers who had the same experience with the seller. In three of four cases, the buyers somehow screwed up the payment process, yet had received their goods (directly from Staples or BestBuy) in the same fashion. Meanwhile the seller has disappeared: Yahoo email unanswered, fake phones and addresses. This may never happen with classic goods, of course, but you can see how the scam will work with new goods. It also makes me wonder if some of the "how to get stuff for free" packages on eBay aren't promoting this sort of scam. You can see how thieves could make a lot of money, converting credit card info to cash. - John From Hans.Franke at siemens.com Tue Nov 23 11:00:05 2004 From: Hans.Franke at siemens.com (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: cool - Classic Computers 2005 Calendar In-Reply-To: <20041122224039.75467.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41A37AA5.31999.6DED93F5@localhost> Am 22 Nov 2004 14:40 meinte steven: > I always wanted to do this, but now it is too late! > Looks like a nice calendar featuring home computers > from the 70's and 80's (No PDPs) - $12.99. > I have no affiliation with this website. > http://www.digicraft.com.au/calendars/ Well, even he's only second... The first Vintage Computer Calender is out since Mai: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=8101&item=5140836431&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW *G* (Shameless self advertisement) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 6.0 am 30.April und 01.Mai 2005 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at siemens.com Tue Nov 23 11:05:32 2004 From: Hans.Franke at siemens.com (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: cool - Classic Computers 2005 Calendar In-Reply-To: <20041123053227.13326.qmail@web52807.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <41A37BEC.10407.6DF291AA@localhost> Am 22 Nov 2004 21:32 meinte Computer Collector E-Mail New: > --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Mon, 22 Nov 2004, steven wrote: > > > I always wanted to do this, but now it is too late! > > > Looks like a nice calendar featuring home computers > > > from the 70's and 80's (No PDPs) - $12.99. > > > I have no affiliation with this website. > > > http://www.digicraft.com.au/calendars/ > > I've been trying to do something like that since 1999. Too many projects, > > too little time. > Hans, are you reading this? Didn't you make a calendar? Yes I did, and it was on sale on VCF Europe, VCF East and VCF California. And since some time we try to get it out via eBay. If anyone of you has an idea to improve sales, it would be apreciated. The calender shows 12 mostly uniqu and unusual machines - way less mainstream than the Australian one. It's real printing (no digiprint) and about twice the size (roughly A3). Well, I did it exactly to what I always wished to have. A real high quality version ... It might have been wiser to go for a lower price, but then again, it was something I whished to do since years. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 6.0 am 30.April und 01.Mai 2005 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From rcini at optonline.net Tue Nov 23 20:26:43 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay Message-ID: <000001c4d1cd$0a7a3ae0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Hello, all: I was browsing eBay and I came across this listing in my "S100" search: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5142045885& rd=1 A few months back, I bought a CD from Dynacomp Software because it had a bunch of Altair manuals on it that I didn't have. This is, of course, before I found Bitsavers and Harte Technologies, which has all that I could want on the documentation side. Anyway, when this guy was selling only Volume 1 and 2, he was also selling the original manuals, so I thought that this guy was OK. As time went on, he began to sell other compilation CDs but not the manuals, so I concluded that he began clipping files from all over the Web and selling them on CDs. A little unsavory, but, well, what can one do? Tonight, I looked at Volume 5 and in the CD table of contents (link above), I see "altair32 Project Altair Emulator.zip" and two other related listings. As you all know, this is my baby and this person never had the courtesy to ask my permission to distribute my albeit free software. Am I crazy here? Should I contact this guy and ask him to remove it? Should I ask him to place a link to the project page instead? How about modifying the listing to include a "permission granted" message? Any thoughts on this? Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From GFisher at tristonecapital.com Tue Nov 23 16:25:35 2004 From: GFisher at tristonecapital.com (Gary Fisher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: FYI: identity theft Message-ID: Wow! Nasty. Kind of a round about way to do credit card fraud, but on the other hand it puts the trail onto the hapless guys who paid for the items on eBay. I suppose eGolds records would just lead to some post office box or even worse, general delivery and i'm sure a battery of lawyers would be required to even get that far. New day, different scam! I hope you went to the eBay forums with your info, I suppose eBay will do nothing to warn anybody (scams never happen on eBay!). Any idea how your credit card info got to the scammer? Gary Fisher This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Unless otherwise stated, opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the author and are not endorsed by the author's employer. Original Message (edited for brevity)is below: Message: 39 Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:37:23 -0600 From: John Foust Subject: FYI: identity theft To: Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041123102938.0517b8b0@pc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Bound to happen! A few odd charges showed up on my business credit card. I caught it quickly, then went into gumshoe mode. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 23 20:59:46 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: FYI: identity theft In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041123102938.0517b8b0@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041123215946.00a5b9f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I've been noticing something else new to E-bay too. I've sold several items to someone in Europe and they respond aaking for my banking info and claiming that they want to pay by wire transfer. I've been scammed once and now I don't give out ANY crdit or banking info to anyone else for ANY reason so I reply that I don't take wire transfers and suggest that they use western Union, BidPay or something similar. After that I never hear from them again. I strongly suspect that this is some new scheme to find their way into my bank account. Anybody heard of anything like this? Joe At 10:37 AM 11/23/04 -0600, you wrote: > >Bound to happen! A few odd charges showed up on my business >credit card. I caught it quickly, then went into gumshoe mode. > >The largest charge was to Staples.com. Someone knew all my info: >name, address, credit card number, three-digit code from the back, >so Staples processed the order. They had the new iPod sent to a >fellow in Los Angeles. > >Said fellow was surprised to hear my card had been used: >Why, he'd recently bought an iPod on eBay at a great price. > >The seller wanted to be paid via eGold.com, and had sent detailed >instructions as how to send money to an exchange company that >would convert dollars to eGold, which could be used to pay him. > >I tracked down several other eBay buyers who had the same >experience with the seller. In three of four cases, the buyers >somehow screwed up the payment process, yet had received their >goods (directly from Staples or BestBuy) in the same fashion. >Meanwhile the seller has disappeared: Yahoo email unanswered, >fake phones and addresses. > >This may never happen with classic goods, of course, but you >can see how the scam will work with new goods. It also makes >me wonder if some of the "how to get stuff for free" packages >on eBay aren't promoting this sort of scam. You can see how >thieves could make a lot of money, converting credit card >info to cash. > >- John > > From cvendel at att.net Tue Nov 23 15:26:55 2004 From: cvendel at att.net (cvendel@att.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: Anti-Apple Commercial edit... Message-ID: <112320042126.11183.41A3AB1F000751D100002BAF2160281060040A0B020A900C@att.net> If you're looking for a good laugh, I just found this anti-Apple commercial, its very vulgar, so be forwarned! http://media.ebaumsworld.com/apple.wmv Curt From cmurillo at manizales.autonoma.edu.co Tue Nov 23 03:19:04 2004 From: cmurillo at manizales.autonoma.edu.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: Found 1954 IBM manual References: Message-ID: <41A30088.26BD239D@manizales.autonoma.edu.co> Ashley Carder wrote: > It's a 1954 "Preliminary Manual of Information" for > IBM Electronic Data Processing Machines, Type 702. > It's 83 pages long and has lots of interesting > information on the 702 system -snip > Does anyone know if this manual exists in scanned > form? If not, I'll scan it and send it to Al > Kossow to put on bitsavers. I have never seen this scanned, and it would be great to have access to it. This series of computers is interesting to me because many of the classical algorithms developed by the electric power industry in the 50's and early 60's used the 702 and 704 as platforms. Not that I ever expect to find one of them, degraded or mint. -- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez Universidad Autonoma de Manizales, Manizales, Colombia ---- "After finding no qualified candidates for the position of principal, the school department is extremely pleased to announce the appointment of David Steele to the post." Philip Streifer, superintendent of schools, Barrington RI. From brad at heeltoe.com Tue Nov 23 14:59:22 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: PDP-1 spacewar Message-ID: <200411232059.iANKxM20026126@mwave.heeltoe.com> Perhaps even cooler than a CADR emulator, a PDP-1 emulator which runs the original PDP-1 spacewar code: http://lcs.www.media.mit.edu/groups/el/projects/spacewar/ Very cool. Apparently the java code is an PDP-1 emulator. They wrote a PDP-1 assembler in perl. You have to smile. I think the screen should be round, however :-) -brad From vcf at siconic.com Tue Nov 23 14:29:18 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: cool - Classic Computers 2005 Calendar In-Reply-To: <41A37AA5.31999.6DED93F5@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Hans Franke wrote: > Well, even he's only second... The first Vintage Computer > Calender is out since Mai: > > http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=8101&item=5140836431&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW Please buy one to help Hans pay for the container load of old computer stuff he's shipping back to Munich. He'll then make a second calendar featuring the stuff going over the on the container, and you can brag to your nerd friends that you "helped" with it. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Nov 23 14:19:25 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: cool - Classic Computers 2005 Calendar In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041123102608.05187658@pc> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, John Foust wrote: > At 09:37 PM 11/22/2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >I've been trying to do something like that since 1999. Too many projects, > >too little time. > > The obvious answer is to talk to them to re-publish and/or > redistribute in the States. Fix the errors, 'mericanize the > English, you're all set to sell to geek museums. > > Producing such a calendar could be a lot of work... finding > the cherry systems, taking a great photo, printing the color > correctly, etc. Right, and if there's anything I learned out of our recent discussion it's that if you don't have a Pantone chart you're screwed. :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From brad at heeltoe.com Tue Nov 23 14:20:41 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: FYI: identity theft In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:37:23 CST." <6.2.0.14.2.20041123102938.0517b8b0@pc> Message-ID: <200411232020.iANKKfaV024528@mwave.heeltoe.com> John Foust wrote: > >Bound to happen! A few odd charges showed up on my business >credit card. I caught it quickly, then went into gumshoe mode. > >The largest charge was to Staples.com. Someone knew all my info: >name, address, credit card number, three-digit code from the back, >so Staples processed the order. They had the new iPod sent to a >fellow in Los Angeles. Thanks for the heads-up. But how did they get your info? I don't get that part - especially your three-digit-code-from-back... -brad From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Nov 23 12:48:49 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: FW: Sanyo MBC 4050 computer available (Glasgow) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:10:45 GMT." <1101219045.20041.39.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200411231848.SAA27666@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, julesrichardsonuk said: > Joe - any ideas why text in emails that you send doesn't wrap properly, > whilst text in emails from everyone else does? It's driving me nuts! :) I think it's because he's using Eudora and hasn't turned on word-wrap in the Composing Mail preferences. Displays ok here, but I know some mail readers have problems with long lines. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From allain at panix.com Tue Nov 23 13:06:10 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: cool - Classic Computers 2005 Calendar References: <41A37BEC.10407.6DF291AA@localhost> Message-ID: <067001c4d18f$7f794900$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > we try to get it out via eBay. If anyone of you has an idea > to improve sales, it would be apreciated. As far as I'm concerned, you're welcome to publish your eBay sale link to the list. You're both a member in good standing and the sale is on topic. John A. From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Nov 23 13:54:57 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: Dragon32 Power-Supply In-Reply-To: <20041123034814.WNGI12981.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> References: <20041123034814.WNGI12981.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: <41A39591.4040600@gifford.co.uk> Dave Dunfield wrote: > Can anyone give me the pinout and details of the power > supply used on the Dragon32 (have a machine with no > supply) - It has a 9-pin 'D' connector on the back of > the machine for the power input! OK, I've just got my machine down from the loft and had a look for the manual -- but I don't have a manual! So, time to test it with a meter... Pin 1 joined to Pin 6, one side of 8.5V AC Red Pin 2 joined to Pin 7, other side of 8.5V AC Black Pin 3 14V AC Yellow Pin 4 0V White Pin 5 14V AC Blue The two 14V AC windings form a centre-tapped 28V winding, which according to the label on the transformer is rated at 250mA. The 8.5V winding is rated 1.5A. The actual voltages I measured were 8.9V and 14.3V (twice), so they're slightly higher off-load. The 9-pin 'D' connector on the end of the PSU cable is a female. The PSU itself is clearly just a transformer in a white plastic box. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 23 19:02:29 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: <1101213055.20058.27.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Nov 23, 4 12:30:55 pm Message-ID: > > Interestingly, there's no feedback between the low-voltage side of the > switching transformer and the circuitry surrounding that SOC603B 6-pin > IC, so maybe it isn't an opto-isolator at all. All the circuitry That does not suprise me. Since there's a pulse transformer in the chopper base circuit, the controller IC is on the isolated side of the PSU (the isolation is performed by the pulse transformer), so there's no need for any optoisolator in the voltage feedback loop. One question. Have you found how the controller IC gets its power? Is there a separate (maybe linear) PSU for this? > surrounding it is on the 'hot' side of things, and its sole function > seems to be to control the SCR which sits between the live input to the > PSU and ground on the bridge output. > > The main PSU board seems to be responsible for generating +5V only; the > second board (which I haven't even looked at much yet) handles +12V and > the battery backup control. It may also pwrovide +5V. It sounds like the second board handles the battery-backed lines, presumably for memory. > > I think whoever made this thing was involved in some "design the most > complicated PSU possible" competition :) No, that honour goes to the supply in the PDP11/44. The official scheamtic is over a dozen A3 pages (!). It's 3 choppers running off the same (coke-can size) capacitors, one to provide the rest of the PSU control circuitry with power, one for the +5V/+15V/-15V logic supplies (the +5V line is rated at 125A IITC), one to provide a 36V line that can be battery backed. The last is then regulated down (more switching regulators...) to provide +5V/+12V/-12V for the memory. Oh, and there's a full-H driver for the fans that runs off the +36V line.... As I said, complicated... > > I need to check for shorts on that second board, though. It gets fed DC > output from the bridge, but when I tried the lightbulb trick the other I will refrain from flaming you just yet :-). Seriously, it would be useful to know which, if either, board has a dead short! -tony From chd_1 at nktelco.net Tue Nov 23 19:20:43 2004 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: KM11 maintenance module In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41A3E1EB.5040306@nktelco.net> Frank Arnold wrote: >The KM11 is also present in the 11/05 (11/10) printset I have. > >I would also expect this to appear in the 11/35 (11/40) printset too. > > > I found a copy of the schematic in the RK11-C printset. Mr. Duell's description does an excellent job of updating it. What is the equivalent of the DEC3009 transistor? There was a discussion a while back about an equivalence chart for the DEC transistors. I can't seem to find the reference anymore. Not that I plan to make one from discretes, but it would be pretty easy to wire since it is such a repeatable pattern. >The interesting thing is that in every different place the KM11 is used, a >different overlay will redefine the meaning of the lamps, so in fact you >will need this picture of the overlays too! > > True, but if you have the manual that describes how to use the KM11, you usually have an image of the overlay. It looks like the lamp board is a dual width, single height. It should not be difficult to take the overlay images from the manuals and photocopy them onto overhead transparencies. >Frank > > -chuck From aek at spies.com Tue Nov 23 21:47:34 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: Anti-Apple Commercial edit... Message-ID: <20041124034734.7DC32481C@spies.com> In Windows Media Viewer format, of course. From aek at spies.com Tue Nov 23 21:51:36 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: KM11 maintenance module Message-ID: <20041124035136.529CF481D@spies.com> Why not just make a paddle card with one of the USB parallel bit wigglers, and have the thing totally virtual on a laptop? You could even line a bunch of them up on the screen if you want to probe more than one device at a time, or rearrage the bits so they make more sense logically? From kurt at k-huhn.com Tue Nov 23 21:58:57 2004 From: kurt at k-huhn.com (Kurt Huhn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: Anti-Apple Commercial edit... In-Reply-To: <20041124034734.7DC32481C@spies.com> References: <20041124034734.7DC32481C@spies.com> Message-ID: <2A76FB52-3DCD-11D9-8B0E-000A95AFC830@k-huhn.com> On Nov 23, 2004, at 10:47 PM, Al Kossow wrote: > > In Windows Media Viewer format, of course. > > Which conveniently can't be viewed on my G5. -- Kurt Huhn kurt@k-huhn.com From spectre at floodgap.com Tue Nov 23 22:46:46 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: Anti-Apple Commercial edit... In-Reply-To: <2A76FB52-3DCD-11D9-8B0E-000A95AFC830@k-huhn.com> from Kurt Huhn at "Nov 23, 4 10:58:57 pm" Message-ID: <200411240446.UAA14766@floodgap.com> > > In Windows Media Viewer format, of course. > Which conveniently can't be viewed on my G5. Ironically, Mac WiMP will play it (it's playing now on my dual G4). More ironically still, the URL they mention comes up with a 404 (and the site appears with the Apache default), and they're using OS 9 and earlier windows to diss OS X. Regardless, it seems rather more vulgar than witty. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Only death cures stupidity! -- "Cowboy Bebop: The Movie" ------------------- From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Nov 23 22:59:11 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: Sorta OT Mac G4 TCP question Message-ID: Have a G4 400 running OS9.2.2, 1G ram, used as an 'appliance' computer in my studio. As a result of a bizarre problem in getting a new software package to authorize (so far the company can't figure out why it's broke - !) I need to hook the Mac up to the Rest Of The World and download a bunch of patches and crap. To date, I have never used this computer on-line - so I drug Cat5 cable in from the switch, hooked it up, and Voila! 'That Which Communicates' is also completely hosed. I get "Internal error #300" and "Mac OS error -23" pointing to a funkyness on the part of the TCP/IP stack / driver / panel / thingy, as far as I can see from looking up endless pages of error codes. And I've made all the settings recommended... also, the cable is known good and works perfectly when drug back into the office and hooked up to this laptop upon which I type. I've spent the better part of three hours turkey-ing about with this - and I have *way* too much invested in it to just heave it into the desert like I want to - so I thought to bend the List Protocols a bit and see if anyone has one of those "Oh, yeah, here's what ya do..." type responses. More info will be cheerfully supplied, I don't know what elese to add. Cheers John From kurt at k-huhn.com Tue Nov 23 23:03:28 2004 From: kurt at k-huhn.com (Kurt Huhn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: Anti-Apple Commercial edit... In-Reply-To: <200411240446.UAA14766@floodgap.com> References: <200411240446.UAA14766@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <2DD695D8-3DD6-11D9-8B0E-000A95AFC830@k-huhn.com> On Nov 23, 2004, at 11:46 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote: >>> In Windows Media Viewer format, of course. > >> Which conveniently can't be viewed on my G5. > > Ironically, Mac WiMP will play it (it's playing now on my dual G4). > More > ironically still, the URL they mention comes up with a 404 (and the > site > appears with the Apache default), and they're using OS 9 and earlier > windows to diss OS X. Regardless, it seems rather more vulgar than > witty. > While I agree that Mac WiMP will play it, my G5 is unable to play that stream. I refuse to pollute my wonderful workstation with garbage from MS. I'll take your word on the rest of it. Created, no doubt, by some teenage weenie on his mom's computer. :) -- Kurt Huhn kurt@k-huhn.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 23 23:07:49 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: KM11 maintenance module In-Reply-To: <20041124035136.529CF481D@spies.com> from "Al Kossow" at Nov 23, 4 07:51:36 pm Message-ID: > > > Why not just make a paddle card with one of the USB > parallel bit wigglers, and have the thing totally virtual > on a laptop? You could even line a bunch of them up on BLETCH!!!! A handful of buffer chips (or discretes) is a lot simpler, cheaper, more reliable, and easier to obtain than a laptop. I do object to this modern idea of _having_ to use a computer for everything. The other day I bought some simple electronic kits for flashing Newtonsday [1] decorations produced by Velleman. I was impressed that not only were there no custom chips, there were no chips at all. They were based on 2-transistor astable multivibrators. [1] Christmas to the rest of you, I guess. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 23 23:09:54 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: Dragon32 Power-Supply In-Reply-To: <41A39591.4040600@gifford.co.uk> from "John Honniball" at Nov 23, 4 07:54:57 pm Message-ID: > Pin 1 joined to Pin 6, one side of 8.5V AC Red > Pin 2 joined to Pin 7, other side of 8.5V AC Black > Pin 3 14V AC Yellow > Pin 4 0V White > Pin 5 14V AC Blue > > The two 14V AC windings form a centre-tapped 28V winding, which > according to the label on the transformer is rated at 250mA. The > 8.5V winding is rated 1.5A. The actual voltages I measured were > 8.9V and 14.3V (twice), so they're slightly higher off-load. The > 9-pin 'D' connector on the end of the PSU cable is a female. The > PSU itself is clearly just a transformer in a white plastic box. Thanks for the infromation. I've got much the same problem (a Dragon 32 less the PSU brick) so sometime I can get round to making one. It's not urgent (I have plenty of CoCos), but I do like to have my machines operational. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 23 23:14:11 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: KM11 maintenance module In-Reply-To: <41A3E1EB.5040306@nktelco.net> from "Charles H. Dickman" at Nov 23, 4 08:20:43 pm Message-ID: > I found a copy of the schematic in the RK11-C printset. Mr. Duell's > description does an excellent job of updating it. What is the equivalent > of the DEC3009 transistor? I think just about any NPN transistor that would handle the lamp current would worl. A word of warning (discovered the hard way!). Some DEC machines put 1k (or so) resistors in series with the input signals to the KM11. If you use TTL buffers to drive the lamps (I tried 7406s), it won't work properly -- they take too much input current. Also, some machines fed the lamp off an unsmoothed supply, hence the capacitor between the '8V' line and ground. > True, but if you have the manual that describes how to use the KM11, you > usually have an image of the overlay. >From what I remember the PDP11/45 prints didn't include the overlay patterns ;-(. I did trace out all the signals, I can provide a pattern if you need it. > > It looks like the lamp board is a dual width, single height. It should Both the boards were single height, extended length. -tony From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Nov 23 23:20:40 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: Sorta OT Mac G4 TCP question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I get "Internal error #300" and "Mac OS error -23" pointing to a >funkyness on the part of the TCP/IP stack / driver / panel / thingy, >as far as I can see from looking up endless pages of error codes. >And I've made all the settings recommended... also, the cable is >known good and works perfectly when drug back into the office and >hooked up to this laptop upon which I type. Have you run something like DiskWarrior on the HD? That would be my first recommendation, the second would be to reload the OS, it sounds like you might have some sort of corruption. The Mac filesystem is a lot less robust than I'd like. You should be able to simply reinstall the OS over your existing setup, and hopefully not have to do much else. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From vcf at siconic.com Tue Nov 23 23:47:40 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: <000001c4d1cd$0a7a3ae0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Richard A. Cini wrote: > Tonight, I looked at Volume 5 and in the CD table of contents (link > above), I see "altair32 Project Altair Emulator.zip" and two other related > listings. As you all know, this is my baby and this person never had the > courtesy to ask my permission to distribute my albeit free software. > Am I crazy here? Should I contact this guy and ask him to remove it? > Should I ask him to place a link to the project page instead? How about > modifying the listing to include a "permission granted" message? > Any thoughts on this? Well, it depends on how you distribute the altair32 project. Is it freeware? Open source? As I've said before with the fellow who is selling copies of Al's archive, it's a bit shameful but there's not much that can be done for various reasons. However, if your altair32 project is copyrighted by you then he is certainly violating your rights. If it's GPL'd then probably not. You might send him a note objecting to his doing this, but unless he's actually violating your copyrights, there's not much to be done. Shameful, yes. Actionable, most likely not. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From family.entwisle at btinternet.com Wed Nov 24 01:22:11 2004 From: family.entwisle at btinternet.com (Duncan Entwisle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8EE87C1E-3DE9-11D9-81C7-00039358EE78@btinternet.com> I'm sure you'll get lots of this sort of reply (sorry :-), but... On 24 Nov 2004, at 05:47, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > However, if your altair32 project is copyrighted by you then he is > certainly violating your rights. If it's GPL'd then probably not. Should, at the very least, read: "However, if your altair32 project is copyrighted by you then he is certainly violating your rights. If it's COPYRIGHTED AND GPL'd then probably not." If you wrote it, its automatically copyrighted by you. GPL'd software is copyrighted, and relies on copyright for its power. Cheers, Duncan. From dave04a at dunfield.com Wed Nov 24 04:36:24 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: Dragon32 Power-Supply Message-ID: <20041124103621.CNJY12981.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> At 19:54 23/11/2004 +0000, you wrote: >Dave Dunfield wrote: >> Can anyone give me the pinout and details of the power >> supply used on the Dragon32 (have a machine with no >> supply) - It has a 9-pin 'D' connector on the back of >> the machine for the power input! > >OK, I've just got my machine down from the loft and had a look >for the manual -- but I don't have a manual! So, time to test >it with a meter... > >Pin 1 joined to Pin 6, one side of 8.5V AC Red >Pin 2 joined to Pin 7, other side of 8.5V AC Black >Pin 3 14V AC Yellow >Pin 4 0V White >Pin 5 14V AC Blue > >The two 14V AC windings form a centre-tapped 28V winding, which >according to the label on the transformer is rated at 250mA. The >8.5V winding is rated 1.5A. The actual voltages I measured were >8.9V and 14.3V (twice), so they're slightly higher off-load. The >9-pin 'D' connector on the end of the PSU cable is a female. The >PSU itself is clearly just a transformer in a white plastic box. Hi John, Thanks for the info - makes perfect sense, an 8v input to drive a 5v supply, and C.T. 28v input to drive +/-12. I shall see if I can fire it up this weekend. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From gordon at gjcp.net Wed Nov 24 05:01:22 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: Anti-Apple Commercial edit... In-Reply-To: <2A76FB52-3DCD-11D9-8B0E-000A95AFC830@k-huhn.com> References: <20041124034734.7DC32481C@spies.com> <2A76FB52-3DCD-11D9-8B0E-000A95AFC830@k-huhn.com> Message-ID: <41A46A02.3020803@gjcp.net> Kurt Huhn wrote: > On Nov 23, 2004, at 10:47 PM, Al Kossow wrote: > >> In Windows Media Viewer format, of course. > > Which conveniently can't be viewed on my G5. Plays just fine using mplayer in Linux. Here it is, recoded into DivX - bit grainy because I couldn't be bothered tweaking it - http://www.gjcp.net/~gordonjcp/apple.avi Please don't link to that URL - put it on your own webspace and don't hammer my cable modem. Gordon From dave04a at dunfield.com Wed Nov 24 05:24:07 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay Message-ID: <20041124112405.DGQH12981.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> > Tonight, I looked at Volume 5 and in the CD table of contents (link >above), I see "altair32 Project Altair Emulator.zip" and two other related >listings. As you all know, this is my baby and this person never had the >courtesy to ask my permission to distribute my albeit free software. > Am I crazy here? Should I contact this guy and ask him to remove it? >Should I ask him to place a link to the project page instead? How about >modifying the listing to include a "permission granted" message? > Any thoughts on this? Hi Rich, Personally, I don't have a problem when people include my free stuff on a collection CD which is nominally priced - what they are selling is convienence, not the material on the disk (which can be freely downloaded). Perhaps I appreciate this more than most, because I have to download through a dial-up connection. On a good day I get 25kbps - it takes *HOURS* to download even a few 10s of megs, let alone a CD or DVDs worth. It is often worth it to me to pay $10-$20 for a CD containing the material I want rather than to try and keep a connection up long enough to download it. Dynacomp is not "some guy", they have been around a LONG time. I have some titles for my Altair which were purchased from them back in the late 70s. I think they are a reasonable company, and given the amount of material on the CD, and the nature of the target audience, I doubt they are making a "killing" from your material. I understand that you may feel it is somehow "wrong" that someone makes a bit of money from your material, however consider: - Given the amount of material on the CD, the percentage which can be attributed to your project is VERY small. The overhead in contacting everyone on the CD, and handling "royalties" would prohibitive in this case, and such collection CDs would bascially not be possible. - Do you really think the price of the CD would go up/down if any one individual project is added/removed (Given that it is freely available elsewhere). - As noted above, Dynacomp is a real company - this is no different than Walnut Creek or other companies which sell compilation CDs. I've seen LOTS of my stuff on these, and have never been contacted for permission - and it has never bothered me. - What about ISPs ... if you don't want anyone to charge for a CD containing your project, then why do you allow people to charge for a network connection which is used to deliver your project? - To my mind, this is really not much differece, both are a form of media. - I expect part of your reaction is due to the fact that this is Ebay, not so much the fact that someone has included your project in a collection (which must have happened many times before). >Should I contact this guy and ask him to remove it? Do you have a reason why people who purchase this collection should not have easy access to your project? >Should I ask him to place a link to the project page instead? Give that I can find Altair32 with google (or any other search engine) easily on the first try, then do you really think it necessary to clutter up the Ebay listing with links (remember, if they do it for you, they should do it for everyone else). I don't think people normally use Ebay as a "links" resource - the listing is long enough as it is... >How about modifying the listing to include a "permission granted" message? Again, would this really benefit people looking at this collection? Would it really benefit you? See above comments regarding the size of the listing. Do you think anyone who is considering this collection really cares who explicitly have their permission (given that the material is freely available anyway). Returning to the ISP analogy, perhaps since people download via their network connection, all ISPs should be required to explicitly obtain permission from every author of every project which is available on the net, and display individual "permission granted" messages and links for each one (to make sure you are aware of this important detail) before allowing you to proceed with your connection (where you might access one of those projects)??? - Would doing so benefit anyone? [Yeah, this is stretching a point, however most of the people who buyt the CD will not access every project on it either, it is just a form of bulk media] Sorry to rant - but this is a pet peeve of mine - CD/DVD collections are one of the fews ways that I can obtain large "free" files. Authors who prevent their works from being included on these are going out of their way to make it very hard for me to obtain them (to no actual benefit to themselves). Granted it would be nice if they asked, but this is probably a lot of extra overhead in the preparation of a large project, and you *DO* make the project freely available to people who live in the city / have high-speed-connections. There was a similar thread a few months back, when one of the guys who maintains a site of archived manuals got upset that another guy was including some of "his" manuals on a DVD that he was selling for $30 (and gives to anyone who contributes material which is how I got it) - Insisting that I download the material prevents me from bring able to obtain most of the larger manuals (some of which I would really like to get). - Really annoying, considering that he doesn't have permission from most of the original authors, and claims to be preserving them and "making them available" ... but apparently only to the "high-speed" elite (but again I rant :-) Lets have a show of hands ... anyone participatng in this list ever distrbure any material without obtaining explicit permission from the orignal author? Regards, Dave Dunfield -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From geoffreythomas at onetel.com Wed Nov 24 05:20:42 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.com (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: Dragon32 Power-Supply References: <20041124103621.CNJY12981.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: <000b01c4d217$a4e0e760$0200a8c0@geoff> Dragon psu diagram here , plus pinouts etc. http://www.onastick.clara.net/dragonhw.htm Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Dunfield" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 10:36 AM Subject: Re: Dragon32 Power-Supply > At 19:54 23/11/2004 +0000, you wrote: > >Dave Dunfield wrote: > >> Can anyone give me the pinout and details of the power > >> supply used on the Dragon32 (have a machine with no > >> supply) - It has a 9-pin 'D' connector on the back of > >> the machine for the power input! > > > >OK, I've just got my machine down from the loft and had a look > >for the manual -- but I don't have a manual! So, time to test > >it with a meter... > > > >Pin 1 joined to Pin 6, one side of 8.5V AC Red > >Pin 2 joined to Pin 7, other side of 8.5V AC Black > >Pin 3 14V AC Yellow > >Pin 4 0V White > >Pin 5 14V AC Blue > > > >The two 14V AC windings form a centre-tapped 28V winding, which > >according to the label on the transformer is rated at 250mA. The > >8.5V winding is rated 1.5A. The actual voltages I measured were > >8.9V and 14.3V (twice), so they're slightly higher off-load. The > >9-pin 'D' connector on the end of the PSU cable is a female. The > >PSU itself is clearly just a transformer in a white plastic box. > > Hi John, > > Thanks for the info - makes perfect sense, an 8v input to drive > a 5v supply, and C.T. 28v input to drive +/-12. > > I shall see if I can fire it up this weekend. > > Regards, > Dave > -- > dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield > dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com > com Vintage computing equipment collector. > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 19/11/04 From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Nov 24 05:53:42 2004 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: <000001c4d1cd$0a7a3ae0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> References: <000001c4d1cd$0a7a3ae0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041124035307.059af2a0@mail.zipcon.net> complain to ebay that he does not have your permission to distribute your software, they should pull his auctions. At 06:26 PM 11/23/2004, you wrote: >Hello, all: > > I was browsing eBay and I came across this listing in my "S100" >search: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5142045885& >rd=1 > > A few months back, I bought a CD from Dynacomp Software because it >had a bunch of Altair manuals on it that I didn't have. This is, of course, >before I found Bitsavers and Harte Technologies, which has all that I could >want on the documentation side. > > Anyway, when this guy was selling only Volume 1 and 2, he was also >selling the original manuals, so I thought that this guy was OK. As time >went on, he began to sell other compilation CDs but not the manuals, so I >concluded that he began clipping files from all over the Web and selling >them on CDs. A little unsavory, but, well, what can one do? > > Tonight, I looked at Volume 5 and in the CD table of contents (link >above), I see "altair32 Project Altair Emulator.zip" and two other related >listings. As you all know, this is my baby and this person never had the >courtesy to ask my permission to distribute my albeit free software. > Am I crazy here? Should I contact this guy and ask him to remove it? >Should I ask him to place a link to the project page instead? How about >modifying the listing to include a "permission granted" message? > Any thoughts on this? > >Rich > >Rich Cini >Collector of classic computers >Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project >Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ >/************************************************************/ From menadeau at comcast.net Wed Nov 24 05:57:05 2004 From: menadeau at comcast.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay References: <000001c4d1cd$0a7a3ae0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Message-ID: <007301c4d21c$b996edd0$0b01a8c0@Mike> > Tonight, I looked at Volume 5 and in the CD table of contents (link > above), I see "altair32 Project Altair Emulator.zip" and two other related > listings. As you all know, this is my baby and this person never had the > courtesy to ask my permission to distribute my albeit free software. > Am I crazy here? Should I contact this guy and ask him to remove it? > Should I ask him to place a link to the project page instead? How about > modifying the listing to include a "permission granted" message? > Any thoughts on this? The contents on your site are clearly copyrighted, so this guy is out of bounds. The first step is to ask him to remove the item from eBay. A lot of people don't understand copyright. They assume it applies only to material that is for sale. So, be polite and explain that you own the right to determine how and where the software is distributed. If he does not comply, then I would file a complaint with eBay. Failing that, a letter from a lawyer is often effective. > Hello, all: > > I was browsing eBay and I came across this listing in my "S100" > search: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5142045885& > rd=1 > > A few months back, I bought a CD from Dynacomp Software because it > had a bunch of Altair manuals on it that I didn't have. This is, of course, > before I found Bitsavers and Harte Technologies, which has all that I could > want on the documentation side. > > Anyway, when this guy was selling only Volume 1 and 2, he was also > selling the original manuals, so I thought that this guy was OK. As time > went on, he began to sell other compilation CDs but not the manuals, so I > concluded that he began clipping files from all over the Web and selling > them on CDs. A little unsavory, but, well, what can one do? > > > Rich > > Rich Cini > Collector of classic computers > Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project > Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > /************************************************************/ > > > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Nov 24 06:22:09 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:50 2005 Subject: Ferranti Mercury Message-ID: <1101298929.21777.3.camel@weka.localdomain> I don't think I posted this already :) Does anyone have any info lurking online about the Ferranti Mercury (specs, what roles the handful of machines that were made took on etc.)? The chap we got the BeBox, Lisa etc. from has an original programming manual for one (although nowhere does it say Ferranti - just 'Mercury') and it'd be nice to give him a bit more info about the machine itself. Google didn't turn up much when I tried, other than the single picture of the machine which seems to be common to a lot of sites. cheers J. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 24 06:25:46 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Masscomp computers? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone on this list play with the Masscomp computers? Joe From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Nov 24 06:31:23 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Dragon32 Power-Supply In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1101299483.21758.11.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 05:09 +0000, Tony Duell wrote: > > Pin 1 joined to Pin 6, one side of 8.5V AC Red > > Pin 2 joined to Pin 7, other side of 8.5V AC Black > > Pin 3 14V AC Yellow > > Pin 4 0V White > > Pin 5 14V AC Blue > > > > The two 14V AC windings form a centre-tapped 28V winding, which > > according to the label on the transformer is rated at 250mA. The > > 8.5V winding is rated 1.5A. The actual voltages I measured were > > 8.9V and 14.3V (twice), so they're slightly higher off-load. The > > 9-pin 'D' connector on the end of the PSU cable is a female. The > > PSU itself is clearly just a transformer in a white plastic box. > > Thanks for the infromation. I've got much the same problem (a Dragon 32 > less the PSU brick) so sometime I can get round to making one. It's not > urgent (I have plenty of CoCos), but I do like to have my machines > operational. There's an uncomfirmed rumour that the proper Acorn Atom brick is the same as the Dragon 32 one, just with a different lead (and unused taps on the transformer presumably!). In the six or so Atoms that have passed through my hands though I've never had one with the original supply, so I can't confirm that :) (All of mine have either been kits - and I assume the PSU was optional - or previous owners have bypassed the regulators and used a more capable supply) I'm not sure what voltages the D32 uses internally. I've been told that the D64 regulator board is different to the D32 one even though it uses the same brick - so it's possible half the outputs of the brick aren't even used in a D32... cheers Jules From coredump at gifford.co.uk Wed Nov 24 06:42:36 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Dragon32 Power-Supply In-Reply-To: <000b01c4d217$a4e0e760$0200a8c0@geoff> References: <20041124103621.CNJY12981.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> <000b01c4d217$a4e0e760$0200a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: <41A481BC.80301@gifford.co.uk> Geoffrey Thomas wrote: > Dragon psu diagram here , plus pinouts etc. > > http://www.onastick.clara.net/dragonhw.htm Unfortunately, the PSU and Video pinouts are missing from the page that should show them: http://www.onastick.clara.net/ports.htm (scroll down to the very bottom) -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From coredump at gifford.co.uk Wed Nov 24 06:47:33 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Dragon32 Power-Supply In-Reply-To: <1101299483.21758.11.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1101299483.21758.11.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <41A482E5.2040607@gifford.co.uk> Jules Richardson wrote: > There's an uncomfirmed rumour that the proper Acorn Atom brick is the > same as the Dragon 32 one, just with a different lead (and unused taps > on the transformer presumably!). The Dragon brick that I have is made with exactly the same plastic mouldings as the UK101 brick. Except that the UK101 brick is black and the Dragon brick is white. The early UK101s had a bare transformer (and you had to supply your own mains wire!) but the later ones had the brick. Just for completeness, the UK101 brick is 9-0-9V AC, 3Amps. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From rcini at optonline.net Wed Nov 24 06:45:42 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: <007301c4d21c$b996edd0$0b01a8c0@Mike> Message-ID: <000f01c4d223$834768c0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> All: Thanks for the comments on this. Dave pointed out that Dynacomp has been around for a looooong time. His auction listing even indicates something to the effect of "delivering quality software since 1975" which meshes nicely with Dave's recollection. The product is indeed copyrighted, with no GPL. The source files do contain a copyright notice but not an "All Rights Reserved." legend. However, I expect people to download it, play with it, make enhancements, and then contribute back. That's how we were able to move the project to where it is today. I'm twixt and tween...putting it on a compilation CD at least gets the product out to a wider audience. However, since I (and a few others) are the copyright holders to the emulator, and I am the "owner" of the project, I feel that I should have been at least given the courtesy of being asked. Since this person has sold software as a business in the past, even in the "early days" of computing, he should appreicate that. Thanks for the input on this. I'm going to drop this person a note. Rich -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Michael Nadeau Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 6:57 AM To: rcini@optonline.net; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay > Tonight, I looked at Volume 5 and in the CD table of contents (link > above), I see "altair32 Project Altair Emulator.zip" and two other related > listings. As you all know, this is my baby and this person never had the > courtesy to ask my permission to distribute my albeit free software. > Am I crazy here? Should I contact this guy and ask him to remove it? > Should I ask him to place a link to the project page instead? How about > modifying the listing to include a "permission granted" message? > Any thoughts on this? The contents on your site are clearly copyrighted, so this guy is out of bounds. The first step is to ask him to remove the item from eBay. A lot of people don't understand copyright. They assume it applies only to material that is for sale. So, be polite and explain that you own the right to determine how and where the software is distributed. If he does not comply, then I would file a complaint with eBay. Failing that, a letter from a lawyer is often effective. > Hello, all: > > I was browsing eBay and I came across this listing in my "S100" > search: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5142045885& > rd=1 > > A few months back, I bought a CD from Dynacomp Software because it > had a bunch of Altair manuals on it that I didn't have. This is, of course, > before I found Bitsavers and Harte Technologies, which has all that I could > want on the documentation side. > > Anyway, when this guy was selling only Volume 1 and 2, he was also > selling the original manuals, so I thought that this guy was OK. As time > went on, he began to sell other compilation CDs but not the manuals, so I > concluded that he began clipping files from all over the Web and selling > them on CDs. A little unsavory, but, well, what can one do? > > > Rich > > Rich Cini > Collector of classic computers > Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project > Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > /************************************************************/ > > > From bert at brothom.nl Wed Nov 24 06:45:56 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Masscomp computers? References: <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <41A48284.82DD0980@brothom.nl> "Joe R." wrote: > > Does anyone on this list play with the Masscomp computers? I have one, but haven't spent much time on it yet. How can I help you? Bert From coredump at gifford.co.uk Wed Nov 24 06:52:26 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Dragon32 Power-Supply In-Reply-To: <1101299483.21758.11.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1101299483.21758.11.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <41A4840A.7070103@gifford.co.uk> Jules Richardson wrote: > In the six or so Atoms that have passed through my hands though I've > never had one with the original supply, so I can't confirm that :) (All > of mine have either been kits - and I assume the PSU was optional - or > previous owners have bypassed the regulators and used a more capable > supply) Ah, that was a standard modification. The Atom uses two 7805 regulators in parallel, which is not a good way to turn two 1A regulators into a 2A PSU. In practice, one regulator (depending on the voltage tolerances of the parts) takes nearly all the load, while the other regulator just sits there. So, many Atom users who expanded their machines also bypassed the regulators and added a proper external supply. I'll check my boxed Atom in the loft sometime to see what brick it's got. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Nov 24 06:47:36 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Masscomp computers? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1101300456.21758.18.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 07:25 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > Does anyone on this list play with the Masscomp computers? I'm the only person I've ever seen ask about them on here :) They seem to be pretty much unknown. I haven't found the keyboard/mouse yet for the one at the museum, so seeing what state it's in is a long term project at present! It's also missing a castor, but that's the least of the problems ;) Andrew K. Bressen replied to me with the following info: /// Masscomp did indeed make multi-cpu machines, and also had an os called RTU (Real Time Unix). They also had another unix called, I think, OS/32. I don't know which one was used by the multiprocessor boxes. I think the CPUs were mostly 68k's, system bus might have been multibus. They had early successes as graphics/cad workstations, so yes they had mice. Masscomp was bought by Concurrent, so there used to be some info on the concurrent users group web pages at www.ccuruser.org. That seems gone now, but archive.org might help you dig up some old stuff there. I used to help run one at the Columbia U CS dept; I remember that the ethernet card had an 80186 that the OS downloaded a network stack to. I seem to recall a hardcoded 14 or 15-hop limit on the IP stack on the version we had, which confused us for a while when we wondered why the machine would talk to some machines but not others. I believe the owner of vitriol.com may still have a number of operational or nearly-operational masscomps. /// From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 24 07:04:04 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Masscomp computers? In-Reply-To: <41A48284.82DD0980@brothom.nl> References: <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041124080404.0091c300@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:45 PM 11/24/04 +0100, you wrote: > > >"Joe R." wrote: >> >> Does anyone on this list play with the Masscomp computers? > >I have one, but haven't spent much time on it yet. How can I help you? I have three of them plus a stack of manuals so I don't really need help. I was just wondering if anyone else was interested in them and what kind of experience they'd had with them. Mine appear to be MC5600s with a single CPU card (68020), two 2 mb memory cards, a 85Mb hard errive and 5 1/4" floppy drive, a Multibus ethernet card, a Burr Brown Multibus 72 channel data aquisition card, XYLogics 451 (IIRC) Multibus Winchester controller card, a NCR Multibus HPSIO card with 8 serial ports and one parallel port and some others that I don't remember at the moment. Reading the manuals it looks like they were killer machines back in their day. These appear to be complete and should be functional but I haven't tested them yet. I took one completely apart yesterday and got photos of everything. I'll edit and post them when I have time. joe > >Bert > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 24 07:15:16 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Masscomp computers? In-Reply-To: <1101300456.21758.18.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041124081516.00921910@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:47 PM 11/24/04 +0000, you wrote: >On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 07:25 -0500, Joe R. wrote: >> Does anyone on this list play with the Masscomp computers? > >I'm the only person I've ever seen ask about them on here :) > >They seem to be pretty much unknown. I haven't found the keyboard/mouse >yet for the one at the museum, so seeing what state it's in is a long >term project at present! It's also missing a castor, but that's the >least of the problems ;) > > >Andrew K. Bressen replied to me with the following info: > >/// >Masscomp did indeed make multi-cpu machines, Yeap, each chassis can have up to four CPU cards. I think the dual chasssis machines could have up to eight but I'd have to check on that. >and also had an os called RTU (Real Time Unix). Yeap, I just sent that manual to Al K. I have at least three other manuals here. >They also had another unix called, I think, OS/32. >I don't know which one was used by the multiprocessor boxes. >I think the CPUs were mostly 68k's, The CPU in mine is 68020. It's card looks similar to Multibus but is longer and has different connector. (I'll post pictures later.) It plugs into the SMI bus. There's also a Multibus chassis in them for the IO cards AND there's also STD+ card sockets in them for data acquisition cards. STD+ is an enhancment of the regular STD bus. Some of them also had VME sockets! The use of four different busses really surprised me. >system bus might have been multibus. > >They had early successes as graphics/cad workstations, >so yes they had mice. Some did, some didn't. Some only used termials but others had graphics capabilities. I think mine all just used terminals. Masscomp was bought by Concurrent, >so there used to be some info on the concurrent users >group web pages at www.ccuruser.org. That seems gone now, >but archive.org might help you dig up some old stuff there. There'll be lots more there soon! > >I used to help run one at the Columbia U CS dept; I remember that the >ethernet card had an 80186 that the OS downloaded a network stack to. It uses an Excelan EXOS 201 Intelligent Multibus Ethernet Controller. I have manuals for it. One of them has already gone to Al. >I seem to recall a hardcoded 14 or 15-hop limit on the IP stack on the >version we had, which confused us for a while when we wondered why the >machine would talk to some machines but not others. > >I believe the owner of vitriol.com may still have a number of >operational or nearly-operational masscomps. I'll check and see if they want some more. These are too neat to destroy. Joe >/// > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Nov 24 07:26:04 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Dragon32 Power-Supply In-Reply-To: <41A4840A.7070103@gifford.co.uk> References: <1101299483.21758.11.camel@weka.localdomain> <41A4840A.7070103@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <1101302764.21758.29.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 12:52 +0000, John Honniball wrote: > Jules Richardson wrote: > > In the six or so Atoms that have passed through my hands though I've > > never had one with the original supply, so I can't confirm that :) (All > > of mine have either been kits - and I assume the PSU was optional - or > > previous owners have bypassed the regulators and used a more capable > > supply) > > Ah, that was a standard modification. The Atom uses two 7805 > regulators in parallel, which is not a good way to turn two > 1A regulators into a 2A PSU. In practice, one regulator > (depending on the voltage tolerances of the parts) takes > nearly all the load, while the other regulator just sits > there. So, many Atom users who expanded their machines > also bypassed the regulators and added a proper external > supply. Uh huh. I think I've got *one* that still has the regulators and heatsink intact. I seem to recall that bypassing the regulators was also a modification when adding the disk pack; the floppy drive unit contained all the power regulation for itself and the machine, and just fed regulated 5V DC into the back of the Atom. > I'll check my boxed Atom in the loft sometime to see what > brick it's got. I've got one boxed one, but it came without a PSU. Actually, there almost didn't appear to be space in the box *for* a PSU, which made me wonder if those were shipped as a seperate parcel. I'm still looking for an Atom with a colour board; presumably by the time the colour board came on the scene everyone was buying BBC micros so they're somewhat rare (although I do have an Atom with the BBC BASIC board in it). Would be nice to get my hands on a Prophet sometime too! cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Nov 24 07:33:56 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Masscomp computers? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041124081516.00921910@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124081516.00921910@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1101303236.21758.37.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 08:15 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > >Masscomp did indeed make multi-cpu machines, > > Yeap, each chassis can have up to four CPU cards. I think the dual > chasssis machines could have up to eight but I'd have to check on that. I'll have to pull the cover off our one sometime just to see what it has inside. Would be annoying to find it's just a shell (although it's heavy enough that there's concrete in there if not :) > >and also had an os called RTU (Real Time Unix). > > Yeap, I just sent that manual to Al K. I have at least three other > manuals here. Have you (or someone else) got OS media, just in case we need copies for ours? > The CPU in mine is 68020. It's card looks similar to Multibus but is > longer and has different connector. (I'll post pictures later.) It plugs > into the SMI bus. There's also a Multibus chassis in them for the IO cards > AND there's also STD+ card sockets in them for data acquisition cards. STD+ > is an enhancment of the regular STD bus. Some of them also had VME sockets! > The use of four different busses really surprised me. Heh, that does seem to be slight overkill. > >They had early successes as graphics/cad workstations, > >so yes they had mice. > > Some did, some didn't. Some only used termials but others had graphics > capabilities. I think mine all just used terminals. Shame, that. Ours has graphical capability; four BNC sockets on the back and a big CAD monitor with it (which is what drew me to the system - one of my big interests is in graphics workstations) > Masscomp was bought by Concurrent, > >so there used to be some info on the concurrent users > >group web pages at www.ccuruser.org. That seems gone now, > >but archive.org might help you dig up some old stuff there. > > There'll be lots more there soon! yay! :-) > It uses an Excelan EXOS 201 Intelligent Multibus Ethernet Controller. I > have manuals for it. One of them has already gone to Al. I wonder if that's the same one as in my NCR Tower (which is also multibus for the IO boards). EXOS rings a bell. cheers Jules From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Nov 24 08:08:06 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Paper Tape Punch Message-ID: <000501c4d22f$070d1410$4a406b43@66067007> Finally got my Facit 4070 Paper Tape Punch that I purchased last year home last night. I got the punch and a HP 9884A Tape Punch Operating and Service Manual and nothing else. Anyone have the adapter with cable for this and some HP paper tapes (#9280-0229)? From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Nov 24 08:39:07 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay References: <000001c4d1cd$0a7a3ae0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Message-ID: <16804.40203.61000.786201@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Vintage" == Vintage Computer Festival writes: Vintage> On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Richard A. Cini wrote: >> Tonight, I looked at Volume 5 and in the CD table of contents >> (link above), I see "altair32 Project Altair Emulator.zip" and two >> other related listings. As you all know, this is my baby and this >> person never had the courtesy to ask my permission to distribute >> my albeit free software. Am I crazy here? Should I contact this >> guy and ask him to remove it? Should I ask him to place a link to >> the project page instead? How about modifying the listing to >> include a "permission granted" message? Any thoughts on this? Vintage> Well, it depends on how you distribute the altair32 project. Vintage> Is it freeware? Open source? As I've said before with the Vintage> fellow who is selling copies of Al's archive, it's a bit Vintage> shameful but there's not much that can be done for various Vintage> reasons. Vintage> However, if your altair32 project is copyrighted by you then Vintage> he is certainly violating your rights. If it's GPL'd then Vintage> probably not. Not quite. GPL code is covered by copyright, too. What matters is what the terms of the license are under which you distribute it. (GPL is NOT "public domain" -- it couldn't be or the GPL would have no effect...) For example, if you distributed it under the GPL, then that other person clearly was allowed to do what he did; in fact, this sort of thing is explicitly encouraged. The same is, I believe, true for the BSD style open source license. If you have a license that requires notice, or credit, or permission, then that's a different matter. In any event, even if not required, credit and notice would have been the polite thing to do, and if I were in your shoes I would send them a note to that effect. paul From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Nov 24 09:42:53 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Difference between sun4, sun4c and sun4m subarchitectures In-Reply-To: <0411191932.AA17931@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0411191932.AA17931@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200411240742530961.01EA8CFE@192.168.42.129> Good day, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 19-Nov-04 at 19:32 msokolov@ivan.Harhan.ORG wrote: >Hello ClassicCmpers, > >Does anyone know what are the real technical differences between sun4, >sun4c and sun4m subarchitectures of SPARC from the viewpoint of an OS >kernel writer? I know that SunOS treats them as different kernel >architectures while Net/OpenBSD has a unified SPARC kernel, as does >Linux if I'm not mistaken. I'm trying to evaluate the pros and cons >of the two approaches. Reason: a friend of mine is porting >4.3BSD-Quasijarus >to SPARC and I'm trying to help him with the key architectural decisions. >We have the SunOS 4.1.4 source. Actually, NetBSD has slightly different SPARC kernels if I recall correctly. In any case, the Sun Hardware Reference, a copy of which may be found at: http://www.obsolyte.com/sunFAQ/faq_hardware/hwref0.html ...should answer all your questions. Happy digging. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From gordon at gjcp.net Wed Nov 24 09:59:08 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Dragon32 Power-Supply In-Reply-To: <1101299483.21758.11.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1101299483.21758.11.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <41A4AFCC.9030401@gjcp.net> Jules Richardson wrote: > There's an uncomfirmed rumour that the proper Acorn Atom brick is the > same as the Dragon 32 one, just with a different lead (and unused taps > on the transformer presumably!). Not even remotely. The original Acorn Atom PSU was 8v at about 1.5A DC if I remember correctly. I "acquired" one from my Dad's work when it wouldn't work, or more accurately would work for only a few minutes before turning itself off. The scorch marks on the inside of the case around the heatsink bolts were a dead giveaway... Fully loaded, with every socket filled, it drew nearly 3A. Gordon. From cb at mythtech.net Wed Nov 24 10:07:20 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Sorta OT Mac G4 TCP question Message-ID: > I get "Internal error #300" and "Mac OS error -23" pointing to a >funkyness on the part of the TCP/IP stack / driver / panel / thingy, as >far as I can see from looking up endless pages of error codes. And I've >made all the settings recommended... also, the cable is known good and >works perfectly when drug back into the office and hooked up to this >laptop upon which I type. I assume you have the OS Install CD that came with the Mac. Reinstall the networking portion (if it gives you an option). If not, just reinstall the entire OS. As long you don't do a "clean install" then it will safely drop the new OS right on top of the old one, and you shouldn't really know the difference. (clean install is NOT the default so you shouldn't have to worry about it). However, since you are seeing odd problems, I would run Disk First Aid first at the very least. If you have a better disk checking program, run that too (Tech Tools or whatever). There is a good chance there is some kind of disk corruption that killed the Open Transport drivers. If you don't have a copy of the OS that you can reinstall from let me know off list. (Apple keeps going back and forth with shipping a usable install CD versus just a reimage CD, so I don't know which you have) -chris From rcini at optonline.net Wed Nov 24 10:10:19 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: <007301c4d21c$b996edd0$0b01a8c0@Mike> Message-ID: <001401c4d240$187c3670$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> All: I dropped Fred Ruckdeschel @ Dynacomp a note. Here is his reply as well as my original note. Note that in his response he didn't make any effort to acknowledge the fact that one *might* consider his actions to be less than courteous. Again, I'm not looking to nail the guy to the wall...if I wanted to include someone else's work in what I'm doing, I would ask first. I could have been stronger in my email to him, but I wanted him to know that I'm watching... Rich Hi- I have added your email and the link to the master for Volume 5. I think the real fun with the Altair was playing with the hardware (keeping it running). Regards, Fred On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:39:53 -0500 "Richard A. Cini" writes: > Hi: > > I was browsing the vintage computer listings last night and > I came across > your "Volume 5" compilation. I've actually purchased a CD from you > previously (Volume 4) to fill-out my collection of manuals. You are > providing a wonderful service to the "classic" computing hobby by > making > these manuals available in a compilation. > > By the way, I am the owner of the Altair32 Emulator and lead > developer on > the project. The Altair32 is copyrighted software, and I have not > granted a > license for its redistribution on compilation CDs. As a former > software > developer/distributor yourself, I'm sure you can appreciate my > surprise when > I noticed that the Volume 5 CD contains copies of the Altair32 > Emulator > (version 2.5, an older version). > > Having said that, I'm happy that the emulator can reach a > wider audience > through this compilation. It's a good piece of software and I and a > team of > three other core hobbyists (and other contributors at different > times) have > spent the better part of four years refining and enhancing the > Altair32 to > make it more useful. Version 3.1, in development now, has some nice > enhancements slated for it, including full Z80 emulation and a > *real* front > panel. > > I would ask that on the CD you include in addition to the > Altair32 > distribution files a direct link to the main Altair32 project page > so that > purchasers of your compilation can obtain the most recent version of > the > emulator directly from the project home. The URL is: > > http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/Altair32.htm > > In case you're wondering, I live in NY but through friends, > I've been able > to host my site at Simon Fraiser University in Canada. > > Thanks for your time. > > Rich > > Rich Cini > Collector of classic computers > Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project > eb site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > /************************************************************/ > From frustum at pacbell.net Wed Nov 24 10:14:22 2004 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: <20041124112405.DGQH12981.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> References: <20041124112405.DGQH12981.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: <41A4B35E.7090206@pacbell.net> Dave Dunfield wrote: ... > There was a similar thread a few months back, when one of the guys who maintains a site > of archived manuals got upset that another guy was including some of "his" manuals on a > DVD that he was selling for $30 (and gives to anyone who contributes material which is > how I got it) - Insisting that I download the material prevents me from bring able to > obtain most of the larger manuals (some of which I would really like to get). - Really > annoying, considering that he doesn't have permission from most of the original authors, > and claims to be preserving them and "making them available" ... but apparently only to > the "high-speed" elite (but again I rant :-) If you are referring to the same thread that I recall, I think you have it wrong. The listmember helps maintain a site of manuals and other information. When he found that dynacomp was including his work without having asked permission not having given any references to where he got the information, the listmember decided to sell a DVD with a superset of all the information -- the difference being that in his auction, he clearly stated that all of the information was available on the net and he'd provide the URLs for all of it free for the asking -- he was very explicit in stating that what he was selling was the convenience of not having to download and categorize everything. As I recall it, that person got roasted pretty completely on this list for what was perceived as too high of a price, despite the fact that his DVD had more information than the 6 CD's that dynacomp is selling on ebay which collectively cost way more than the DVD. Personally, I have invested much more than 1000 hours in my sol work, maybe 2000 hours -- both the emulator and in scanning and in many cases meticulously OCR'ing and reformatting the documents so they'd be searchable and faster to download. For example, in those old proc tech newsletters they'd often list an assembly language program. OCR'ing that was tough, but I didn't stop there -- I would clean it up the best I could, then I'd assemble it and make sure that the hex produced by the assembler matched the hex that appeared in the listing. I don't have the time anymore to be that anal about it. On just about all of the documents on my site I'm violating somebody's copyright, and I'm more than willing to pull anything from my site that the original author doesn't want on there, but so far none have (and a few have been tickled to see their work kept alive). Dynacomp (Fred Ruckdeschel) irritates me, mostly because of his sneaky ebay dealings from a few years back (he had a shill bidder on his auctions and I caught him red handed). He may have been in business for a long time, but it doesn't have to mean he is ethical. A piece of me is irritated that dynacomp stands to make money on my and others efforts. A lot of his volume 6 comes from my sol site. Taken in whole, though, I can't complain about copyright issues considering that most of what I've scanned has someone else's copyright imprint on it. I went to the bother to scan and organize my web site to preserve the information. This guy is another vector of dissemination. Finally, in the things that I have OCR'd, I usually put something like "Copyright (c) 1977 Processor Techonology" or whatever in the PDF properties when I write out the PDF, but I also include "scanned and OCR'd by Jim Battle". Some of the people who in the past have complained about borrowing work uncredited are hosting some of my documents as evidenced by the PDF tag above, yet they didn't ask me about it. The bits want to be free. From news at computercollector.com Wed Nov 24 10:21:30 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay Message-ID: <20041124162131.53002.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> Here's a theoretical question for the group. What if someone compiled copyrighted data (giving credit to the owners) onto a CD, and gave it away for FREE, but made their money by having advertising inside the contents -- would that be considered ethical? For the record, it's NOT anything that I plan to do with the newsletter. Evan ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit the museums directory and read about past events at our web site: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 600 readers and counting! From vcf at siconic.com Wed Nov 24 10:25:26 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: <20041124112405.DGQH12981.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Dave Dunfield wrote: > Granted it would be nice if they asked, but this is probably a lot of > extra overhead in the preparation of a large project, and you *DO* make > the project freely available to people who live in the city / have > high-speed-connections. Hi Dave. You make good points overall, but I don't think it takes very much effort to contact the authors/producers of each contribution on the CD. It's just a matter of basic courtesy. This would take maybe an hour or two of e-mail. They're charging $50 per CD. That's about a dollar in production costs and $49 of profit. Assuming they sell even 5, that's still a good return for material to which they didn't contribute. > There was a similar thread a few months back, when one of the guys who > maintains a site of archived manuals got upset that another guy was > including some of "his" manuals on a DVD that he was selling for $30 You're referring to Al. No, he did not refer to the material as "his". He was mainly objecting to the fact that no credit whatsoever was given. Do you realize how much time, not to mention MONEY, Al puts into maintaining and scanning that manual archive so people can download it for FREE or even SELL compilation CDs? Did I mention MONEY? Not only has Al put literally thousands(?) of hours into scanning those documents, he also put THOUSANDS of dollars into acquiring those manuals, and THOUSANDS of dollars more on acquiring the scanning hardware, and I'm sure the costs of maintaining his server and internet connection is not insignificant either. Now, considering the time and effort and actual money Al has put into that project, I don't think his getting a little bent out of shape is out of line. A simple, "Thanks to Al Kossow for all his hard work in making these manuals available" would have been a nice gesture, but even that courtesy was apparently too much to extend by the compiler. Fie. > (and gives to anyone who contributes material which is how I got it) - > Insisting that I download the material prevents me from bring able to > obtain most of the larger manuals (some of which I would really like to > get). - Really annoying, considering that he doesn't have permission > from most of the original authors, and claims to be preserving them and > "making them available" ... but apparently only to the "high-speed" > elite (but again I rant :-) He doesn't "claim" to be preserving them. He *IS* preserving them! I'm sorry, but have some fucking respect. > Lets have a show of hands ... anyone participatng in this list ever > distrbure any material without obtaining explicit permission from the > orignal author? The question is, do you make a practice of this? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From news at computercollector.com Wed Nov 24 10:30:39 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Test -- please ignore Message-ID: <20041124163039.34994.qmail@web52804.mail.yahoo.com> (intentionally blank) ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 600 readers and counting! From vcf at siconic.com Wed Nov 24 10:48:47 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: <20041124162131.53002.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter wrote: > Here's a theoretical question for the group. > > What if someone compiled copyrighted data (giving credit to the owners) onto a > CD, and gave it away for FREE, but made their money by having advertising > inside the contents -- would that be considered ethical? I think it really boils down to a matter of courtesy. Even if you burned copies to give away to people at no charge, it is still just basic courtesy to acknowledge those who made the compilation possible. It only takes 10 seconds to write a simple "thank you". -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From kenziem at sympatico.ca Wed Nov 24 10:53:43 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Masscomp computers? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200411241153.44375.kenziem@sympatico.ca> On Wednesday 24 November 2004 07:25, Joe R. wrote: > Does anyone on this list play with the Masscomp computers? I recently picked up a Masscomp 5400. It has several eight serial ports on the back and an ethernet connection but the keyboard and video ports were not installed. I haven't done anything else with it. Any thoughts on logging in? -- Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 Machines to trade http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/trade.html Open Source Weekend http://www.osw.ca From menadeau at comcast.net Wed Nov 24 10:56:21 2004 From: menadeau at comcast.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay References: <20041124162131.53002.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <010c01c4d246$883efeb0$0b01a8c0@Mike> > Here's a theoretical question for the group. > > What if someone compiled copyrighted data (giving credit to the owners) onto a > CD, and gave it away for FREE, but made their money by having advertising > inside the contents -- would that be considered ethical? > > For the record, it's NOT anything that I plan to do with the newsletter. > > Evan > Just giving credit to the copyright owners doesn't mean you are in compliance with copyright law. You need the explicit permission of the copyright holder. Assuming you have that permission, then the model you suggest is ethical as long as the copyright holders understand what you are doing. From rcini at optonline.net Wed Nov 24 11:03:41 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: <010c01c4d246$883efeb0$0b01a8c0@Mike> Message-ID: <000201c4d247$8e13f4c0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> All I'm talking about is courtesy. He has ripped documents from my Web site too, but so have others. I don't really care, because the MITS, Commodore, NorthStar and AIM stuff I have isn't mine anyway (well, the documents are mine but obviously I don't hold the copyright). I'm just looking for recognition. Look at www.1000bit.net. Most of the NorthStar stuff from there is right off of my site. Rich -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Michael Nadeau Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 11:56 AM To: news@computercollector.com; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay > Here's a theoretical question for the group. > > What if someone compiled copyrighted data (giving credit to the owners) onto a > CD, and gave it away for FREE, but made their money by having advertising > inside the contents -- would that be considered ethical? > > For the record, it's NOT anything that I plan to do with the newsletter. > > Evan > Just giving credit to the copyright owners doesn't mean you are in compliance with copyright law. You need the explicit permission of the copyright holder. Assuming you have that permission, then the model you suggest is ethical as long as the copyright holders understand what you are doing. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Nov 24 11:31:34 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics Message-ID: <200411241731.JAA02997@clulw009.amd.com> >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk > >> >> Interestingly, there's no feedback between the low-voltage side of the >> switching transformer and the circuitry surrounding that SOC603B 6-pin >> IC, so maybe it isn't an opto-isolator at all. All the circuitry > >That does not suprise me. Since there's a pulse transformer in the >chopper base circuit, the controller IC is on the isolated side of the >PSU (the isolation is performed by the pulse transformer), so there's no >need for any optoisolator in the voltage feedback loop. > >One question. Have you found how the controller IC gets its power? Is >there a separate (maybe linear) PSU for this? > Hi I just thought I'd note that you don't need feedback if the transformer is just used to drive a square wave and not used as a flyback type. It just comes down to turns ratios for the voltage. If there is a post regulator, having a regulated switcher is not needed. Most PC supplies use a flyback type and regulate the 5V line by the switcher to maximize efficiency but I doubt HP was concerned about that. Dwight From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Nov 24 11:53:31 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Dragon32 Power-Supply Message-ID: <200411241753.JAA03002@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "John Honniball" > >Jules Richardson wrote: >> In the six or so Atoms that have passed through my hands though I've >> never had one with the original supply, so I can't confirm that :) (All >> of mine have either been kits - and I assume the PSU was optional - or >> previous owners have bypassed the regulators and used a more capable >> supply) > >Ah, that was a standard modification. The Atom uses two 7805 >regulators in parallel, which is not a good way to turn two >1A regulators into a 2A PSU. In practice, one regulator >(depending on the voltage tolerances of the parts) takes >nearly all the load, while the other regulator just sits >there. So, many Atom users who expanded their machines >also bypassed the regulators and added a proper external >supply. > >I'll check my boxed Atom in the loft sometime to see what >brick it's got. > Hi Although, not particularly good practice, as long as the power dissipation is kept down, this is a design within specifications of the part. They have built in current limit and are suppose to be able to handle continuous loads in current limit. This means that they can be paralleled. I once talked with some application engineers at National about this type of operation. Dwight From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Wed Nov 24 11:53:15 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim stephens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Difference between sun4, sun4c and sun4m subarchitectures References: <0411191932.AA17931@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <20041119222628.2c42ff04.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <41A4CA8B.46FA9D82@msm.umr.edu> I know the boards used in the IPX and IPC had a sparc with a specific way of partitioning memory at very high and low addresses. Sparcs didn't have all the address mapping gunk that the Intel cpus have, and so sun came out with a way to have a small footprint of memory have a block of memory mapped low and very high in the address space. this allows the upward growing or block memory to be allocated in a large area from 0->up and the descending growing things like stacks to be allocated high and grow down, as the system ran. No need to put them in a low space and then have the collide. I understand this is a memory allocation / O/S thing and the specific problem was to make the page tables or what have you not have a big hole in the middle where there never would be any memory. If you have an address space, the page tables or whatever they are called tend to reflect the physical memory, so if you want to address a block of it low and hi, you have a big block of zeros in the middle. I think there is some sort of offset that allows you to have the high and low memory, and have all the table entries hit together with a concept of wrapping the spaces low and hi together. I.E. the first table entry would not be for page 0, but could be for something like the first page of the high memory. The page 0 entry would be in the middle of the table somewhere. But there would be no unused block. I am sorry not to have the exact terms here, but I heard this account from someone who has coded extensivly on the Sun platform doing malloc and memory allocation work in the system. I don't know which this is, but am sure it is for the cheepo platforms, which they did like the IPX IPC. At the time of the first pizza box, Sparc-2 that was a high end workstation so it would not have had this as a design goal. Jim Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Fri, 19 Nov 04 19:32:13 GMT > msokolov@ivan.harhan.org (Michael Sokolov) wrote: > > > Does anyone know what are the real technical differences between sun4, > > sun4c and sun4m subarchitectures of SPARC from the viewpoint of an OS > > kernel writer? > I am not entirely sure, but I think the differences are in in the CPU > cache, the MMU, the IO architecture (sun4 VME, sun4c SBus) and sun4m is > based on SPRAC V8 CPUs where the older sun4 / sun4c is based on V7 CPUs. > This is a bit simplified. E.g. the SM100 MBus CPU module is for sun4m > machines but has two V7 CPUs. Also: The sun4/6xx CPU boards are sun4m > with VME _and_ SBus. In addition they are the first and only sun4m CPU > boards with VME. > > Not to talk about sun4d or Solburn (?) machines... > > I know you don't like it, but maybe the NetBSD kernel source is a help. > > Google for a file named "sun.hardware.FAQ"... > -- > > tsch??, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From coredump at gifford.co.uk Wed Nov 24 12:16:16 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Dragon32 Power-Supply In-Reply-To: <200411241753.JAA03002@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200411241753.JAA03002@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <41A4CFF0.1090104@gifford.co.uk> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Although, not particularly good practice, as long as the > power dissipation is kept down, this is a design within specifications > of the part. They have built in current limit and are suppose > to be able to handle continuous loads in current limit. > This means that they can be paralleled. Hmmm... OK, but they still won't be sharing the current equally. The one that has the lower current-limit point will be at its full capacity, while the other one will have a smaller share of the load. At least, that's how I understand it. > I once talked with some application engineers at National > about this type of operation. I'm sure I've seen a note somewhere to the effect "do not connect in parallel", but of course I've no idea where I read that! -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From birs23 at zeelandnet.nl Wed Nov 24 12:40:47 2004 From: birs23 at zeelandnet.nl (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Free : Facit Ribbons Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.0.20041124194021.0260a9b8@pop.xs4all.nl> I dont know if anybody is interested in these but I have a bunch of unused Facit ribbon's for the Facit B3150 / B3350 / B3550 / D635 / E630 / E750. They are free for shipping costs or you can pick them up too offcourse. Located in the Netherlands. Cheers, Stefan. http://www.oldcomputercollection.com From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Nov 24 12:26:40 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Difference between sun4, sun4c and sun4m subarchitectures In-Reply-To: <200411240742530961.01EA8CFE@192.168.42.129> References: <0411191932.AA17931@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <200411240742530961.01EA8CFE@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <200411241849.NAA04683@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> Does anyone know what are the real technical differences between >> sun4, sun4c and sun4m subarchitectures of SPARC from the viewpoint >> of an OS kernel writer? [...] Net/OpenBSD has a unified SPARC >> kernel, [...] > Actually, NetBSD has slightly different SPARC kernels if I recall > correctly. I don't suppose it occurred to either of you to actually go and check? NetBSD's code is available for inspection, and while I haven't checked, I feel certain OpenBSD's is too. I just had a quick look at the NetBSD code. The biggest differences seem to be in the pmap, which deals with the MMU; there are other checks for SUN4 vs SUN4M vs SUN4C scattered around, but they are mostly various drivers that know things like "this device appears attached to obio only on 4c machines". It's possible to build a kernel supporting any desired subset of the three types; if you build a kernel supporting more than one type, you will pay a marginal speed penalty since some things will make run-time checks for the architecture, checks which are effectively done at compile time in a single-architecture kernel. > In any case, the Sun Hardware Reference, a copy of which may be found > at: > http://www.obsolyte.com/sunFAQ/faq_hardware/hwref0.html > ...should answer all your questions. You might want to check it before suggesting it. I just had a look and found nothing of any real use to an OS writer. It talks only in generalities far too vague to write code to. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From rcini at optonline.net Wed Nov 24 12:56:17 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Making CP/M disk images Message-ID: <000001c4d257$47ac5300$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Hello, all: I'm trying to make disk images of a CP/M disk from an MS-DOS machine so I can send the images to some one else to generate disks. The CP/M machine is a Micromint SB180. The PC is a standard Compaq 386. Both machines have HD 5.25" drives although the format of the disk is standard 40-track. I've used Copy-II-PC to make disk-to-disk copies with some success but the CP2PC software can't make images. I have not hooked-up the CP2PC floppy controller board yet, but that could be another test option. I've also used Teledisk 2.12, which can make disk images but I haven't been able to successfully regenerate a test disk image into a working diskette. Are there any other disk imaging programs out there for the PC that can read and archive CP/M-format disks? Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Wed Nov 24 12:57:48 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: FYI: identity theft In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041123215946.00a5b9f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001001c4d257$7f32f450$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > I've been noticing something else new to E-bay too. I've > sold several > items to someone in Europe and they respond aaking for my > banking info and > claiming that they want to pay by wire transfer. I've been There's someone selling ESR meters in Spain or Portugal (I forget the exact details) and his preferred method of *accepting* cash is effectively a wire transfer (he provides an IBAN number, you send the cash). I've also had several people from other parts of Europe (I'm in the UK) asking if they can pay directly, all I need to do is provide an IBAN for my account. I've declined up to know (because I have no idea how it works, what scams might lie behind it and - most importantly - what the charges are and who pays them!) and they've all gone on to pay via PayPal. There may be a scam behind these but I don't know what it is. Be nice to find a way to avoid the paypal charges though! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Nov 24 12:49:27 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: <010c01c4d246$883efeb0$0b01a8c0@Mike> References: <20041124162131.53002.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> <010c01c4d246$883efeb0$0b01a8c0@Mike> Message-ID: <200411241858.NAA04712@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> What if someone compiled copyrighted data (giving credit to the >> owners) onto a CD, and gave it away for FREE, but made their money >> by having advertising inside the contents -- would that be >> considered ethical? > Just giving credit to the copyright owners doesn't mean you are in > compliance with copyright law. The question asked "ethical", not "legal". They are very different for a lot of people (and neither is a subset of the other, for many, such as me - there are illegal things I consider ethical and legal things I consider unethical.) To answer the original question, for my own values of "ethical": maybe, depending largely on the conditions under which the data in question were distributed. For example, if the data travels under a license like one of the common open-source code licenses, I see no ethical problem with it whatever. If distributing the CD involves violating an applicable NDA, on the other hand, I generally have much ethical problem with it. And there's a lot of grey area in between. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From tomj at wps.com Wed Nov 24 13:12:04 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Anti-Apple Commercial edit... In-Reply-To: <2A76FB52-3DCD-11D9-8B0E-000A95AFC830@k-huhn.com> References: <20041124034734.7DC32481C@spies.com> <2A76FB52-3DCD-11D9-8B0E-000A95AFC830@k-huhn.com> Message-ID: > On Nov 23, 2004, at 10:47 PM, Al Kossow wrote: > > In Windows Media Viewer format, of course. On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Kurt Huhn wrote: > Which conveniently can't be viewed on my G5. Or my linux box. From tomj at wps.com Wed Nov 24 13:22:31 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: <20041124112405.DGQH12981.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> References: <20041124112405.DGQH12981.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Dave Dunfield wrote: > > Tonight, I looked at Volume 5 and in the CD table of contents (link > >above), I see "altair32 Project Altair Emulator.zip" and two other related > >listings. As you all know, this is my baby and this person never had the > >courtesy to ask my permission to distribute my albeit free software. > > Am I crazy here? Should I contact this guy and ask him to remove it? > >Should I ask him to place a link to the project page instead? How about > >modifying the listing to include a "permission granted" message? > > Any thoughts on this? Having written lots of free software myself dating back 25 years, I look at it as flattery. He's not misrepresenting it, the cost is nominal, it puts more copies out there, and unless it's explicitly contrary to copyright restrictions you put into the source, it's not illegal or unethical. It's a mild form of semi-immortality, especially if they're stamped CDRs, which seems to be in innate urge of all earthians (metoo). It would be nice to acknowledge the many contributors; for a $10 CDR it's probably not worth the time ($) to compile an accurate list of peoples names, there'd be errors, omissions, etc. Also, it's clearly only going to a pretty rarefied crowd, I don't think Walmart will be carrying it. From tomj at wps.com Wed Nov 24 13:24:46 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: <007301c4d21c$b996edd0$0b01a8c0@Mike> References: <000001c4d1cd$0a7a3ae0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> <007301c4d21c$b996edd0$0b01a8c0@Mike> Message-ID: > Subject: Re: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay > The contents on your site are clearly copyrighted, so this guy is out of > bounds. The first step is to ask him to remove the item from eBay. A lot of > people don't understand copyright. They assume it applies only to material > that is for sale. So, be polite and explain that you own the right to > determine how and where the software is distributed. > > If he does not comply, then I would file a complaint with eBay. Failing > that, a letter from a lawyer is often effective. To what end, this? It's a bit scorched-earth don't you think? From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Nov 24 13:28:01 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Anti-Apple Commercial edit... In-Reply-To: References: <20041124034734.7DC32481C@spies.com> <2A76FB52-3DCD-11D9-8B0E-000A95AFC830@k-huhn.com> Message-ID: <1101324481.21777.64.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 11:12 -0800, Tom Jennings wrote: > > On Nov 23, 2004, at 10:47 PM, Al Kossow wrote: > > > In Windows Media Viewer format, of course. > > On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Kurt Huhn wrote: > > Which conveniently can't be viewed on my G5. > > Or my linux box. I've played wmv files via mplayer under Linux before now - afraid I don't know if there are all sorts of wmv variants and mplayer only works with some of them, though. cheers Jules From tomj at wps.com Wed Nov 24 13:33:59 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Ferranti Mercury In-Reply-To: <1101298929.21777.3.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1101298929.21777.3.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > Does anyone have any info lurking online about the Ferranti Mercury > (specs, what roles the handful of machines that were made took on etc.)? > > The chap we got the BeBox, Lisa etc. from has an original programming > manual for one (although nowhere does it say Ferranti - just 'Mercury') > and it'd be nice to give him a bit more info about the machine itself. Holy crapola, a lot of the best software development in the world was done on Ferranti machines. English computers from that era (50's) had index regs, stacks and subroutine support back when the Americans were still trying to put square wheels on their wagons. The Mercurys (Mercuries?) were late 50's? developed versions of the Manchester thread machines. It had a fancy autocode. Transistorized I assume. I don't think I have any hardware descriptions of it, and it would take me some time to look at, but I do have this picture http://wps.com/archives/Ivall/Ferranti-Mercury-computer.jpg and others at that base URL. From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Wed Nov 24 13:43:41 2004 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: FYI: identity theft In-Reply-To: <001001c4d257$7f32f450$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <251417BC-3E51-11D9-931B-000A9586BBB0@bluewin.ch> > > I've also had several people from other parts of > Europe (I'm in the UK) asking if they can pay > directly, all I need to do is provide an IBAN for > my account. I've declined up to know (because I > have no idea how it works, what scams might lie > behind it and - most importantly - what the charges > are and who pays them!) and they've all gone on to > pay via PayPal. > IBAN is a very good way of transferring money inside Europe. EU regulations make it illegal for banks to charge more for IBAN transfers than for transfers inside a country. This makes it in fact the cheapest way of transferring money inside Europe. I do not know how UK not being in the Euro zones affects this though. Jos From tomj at wps.com Wed Nov 24 13:47:52 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As I see it, the gist of the arguments for and against the CDR distribution of free software in this context is: * Distributor is making money distributing, authors are not. Largely agreed is that we're not talking lots of money. * Authors are not getting credit. Largely unspoken is that free software authors "get paid" from THANKS! from users; distributor is to some degree (significant or in-) from this without contributing directly. * There is an indirect benefit to authors, in that their works are diseminated largely as intended, the above notwithstanding. The problems are largely a matter of DEGREE { If the distributor was making "substantial" money we'd be more upset; if distrib. claimed authorship we'd sue; we're HAPPY free software is diseminated; if the distrib would list (thank) contributing authors we'd be HAPPIER. }; In other words, this has all the attributes of a never-ending thread. Think: 10-year-rule, pantone, ... From aek at spies.com Wed Nov 24 13:52:17 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Ferranti Mercury Message-ID: <20041124195217.17AB34866@spies.com> Ed Thielen has Livingston's "Early British Computers" on line http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/EarlyBritish.html Mercury was a valve machine from 1957 specs at http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/EarlyBritish-App.html#Ap-02 From aek at spies.com Wed Nov 24 13:53:33 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Ferranti Mercury Message-ID: <20041124195333.EDDD74575@spies.com> forgot to mention I'd like to get a copy of the programming manual to add to the archive. I have one other manual on programming the Pegasus from '58 that I need to get on line. From tomj at wps.com Wed Nov 24 13:56:55 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:51 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: References: <20041124112405.DGQH12981.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > Having written lots of free software myself dating back 25 > years, I look at it as flattery. He's not misrepresenting it, >... > into the source, it's not illegal or unethical. ^^^^^^^^^ Strike that word misused here. It's obviously not unethical to him (or he takes the cash and sleeps poorly) but may be to you. From Pres at macro-inc.com Wed Nov 24 13:53:51 2004 From: Pres at macro-inc.com (Ed Kelleher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Ferranti Mercury In-Reply-To: References: <1101298929.21777.3.camel@weka.localdomain> <1101298929.21777.3.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041124145159.04b04de8@192.168.0.1> At 02:33 PM 11/24/2004, you wrote: >I don't think I have any hardware descriptions of it, and it >would take me some time to look at, but I do have this picture > >http://wps.com/archives/Ivall/Ferranti-Mercury-computer.jpg Well, if it's so great, where's the steering wheel! :-) Ed K. From Pres at macro-inc.com Wed Nov 24 13:57:37 2004 From: Pres at macro-inc.com (Ed Kelleher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: FYI: identity theft In-Reply-To: <001001c4d257$7f32f450$5b01a8c0@flexpc> References: <3.0.6.32.20041123215946.00a5b9f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041124145500.04b06918@192.168.0.1> At 01:57 PM 11/24/2004, you wrote: >I've also had several people from other parts of >Europe (I'm in the UK) asking if they can pay >directly, all I need to do is provide an IBAN for >my account. I've declined up to know (because I >have no idea how it works, what scams might lie >behind it and - most importantly - what the charges >are and who pays them!) and they've all gone on to >pay via PayPal. Wire transfer is my preferred way of getting paid from companies overseas. Sold a good bit of DEC stuff that way. If you send someone a check, they have all the information they need for a wire transfer. Ed K. From gordon at gjcp.net Wed Nov 24 14:02:14 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Anti-Apple Commercial edit... In-Reply-To: References: <20041124034734.7DC32481C@spies.com> <2A76FB52-3DCD-11D9-8B0E-000A95AFC830@k-huhn.com> Message-ID: <41A4E8C6.1030608@gjcp.net> Tom Jennings wrote: >>On Nov 23, 2004, at 10:47 PM, Al Kossow wrote: >> >>>In Windows Media Viewer format, of course. > > > On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Kurt Huhn wrote: > >>Which conveniently can't be viewed on my G5. > > > Or my linux box. > As I said in an earlier post, works just fine in mplayer. Just like nearly everything else I come across (and I handle a lot of different video formats). Gordon. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Nov 24 13:59:54 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Ferranti Mercury In-Reply-To: References: <1101298929.21777.3.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1101326394.21758.78.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 11:33 -0800, Tom Jennings wrote: > On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > Does anyone have any info lurking online about the Ferranti Mercury > > (specs, what roles the handful of machines that were made took on etc.)? > > > > The chap we got the BeBox, Lisa etc. from has an original programming > > manual for one (although nowhere does it say Ferranti - just 'Mercury') > > and it'd be nice to give him a bit more info about the machine itself. > > Holy crapola, a lot of the best software development in the > world was done on Ferranti machines. English computers from > that era (50's) had index regs, stacks and subroutine support > back when the Americans were still trying to put square wheels > on their wagons. > > The Mercurys (Mercuries?) were late 50's? developed > versions of the Manchester thread machines. It had a fancy > autocode. Transistorized I assume. Now it would be interesting to know if it was fully transistorised for the logic (core memory still, no doubt! :) Both our big Marconi TAC and the Elliott 803 are transistorised machines and date from circa 1959 - it'd be interesting to know what machines using transistors were in use before then. > I don't think I have any hardware descriptions of it, and it > would take me some time to look at, but I do have this picture > > http://wps.com/archives/Ivall/Ferranti-Mercury-computer.jpg That's the same pic everyone seems to have :) You've got some interesting other stuff on there, though. I know we've got various Pegasus, Deuce and Leo documentation at the museum, but I've not seen anything of the Mercury so it's something of an unknown to me! cheers Jules From Pres at macro-inc.com Wed Nov 24 14:04:03 2004 From: Pres at macro-inc.com (Ed Kelleher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Ferranti Mercury In-Reply-To: References: <1101298929.21777.3.camel@weka.localdomain> <1101298929.21777.3.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041124150229.04b04de8@192.168.0.1> At 02:33 PM 11/24/2004, you wrote: >The Mercurys (Mercuries?) were late 50's? developed >versions of the Manchester thread machines. It had a fancy >autocode. Transistorized I assume. Looks like 4 power supply cabinets to the right. I'd think it was tube based (no pun intended). Ed K. From kurt at k-huhn.com Wed Nov 24 14:14:34 2004 From: kurt at k-huhn.com (Kurt Huhn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Anti-Apple Commercial edit... In-Reply-To: <41A4E8C6.1030608@gjcp.net> References: <20041124034734.7DC32481C@spies.com> <2A76FB52-3DCD-11D9-8B0E-000A95AFC830@k-huhn.com> <41A4E8C6.1030608@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <7530D646-3E55-11D9-8B0E-000A95AFC830@k-huhn.com> On Nov 24, 2004, at 3:02 PM, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > Tom Jennings wrote: >>> On Nov 23, 2004, at 10:47 PM, Al Kossow wrote: >>> >>>> In Windows Media Viewer format, of course. >> On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Kurt Huhn wrote: >>> Which conveniently can't be viewed on my G5. >> Or my linux box. > > As I said in an earlier post, works just fine in mplayer. Just like > nearly everything else I come across (and I handle a lot of different > video formats). > mplayer, shmemplayer. I guess I don't view a lot of random video clips done with $codec_of_the_week. -- Kurt Huhn kurt@k-huhn.com From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Nov 24 14:25:11 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Difference between sun4, sun4c and sun4m subarchitectures In-Reply-To: <200411241849.NAA04683@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <0411191932.AA17931@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <200411240742530961.01EA8CFE@192.168.42.129> <200411241849.NAA04683@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <41A4EE27.3060202@mdrconsult.com> der Mouse wrote: >>>Does anyone know what are the real technical differences between >>>sun4, sun4c and sun4m subarchitectures of SPARC from the viewpoint >>>of an OS kernel writer? [...] Net/OpenBSD has a unified SPARC >>>kernel, [...] > > I just had a quick look at the NetBSD code. The biggest differences > seem to be in the pmap, which deals with the MMU; there are other > checks for SUN4 vs SUN4M vs SUN4C scattered around, but they are mostly > various drivers that know things like "this device appears attached to > obio only on 4c machines". It's possible to build a kernel supporting > any desired subset of the three types; if you build a kernel supporting > more than one type, you will pay a marginal speed penalty since some > things will make run-time checks for the architecture, checks which are > effectively done at compile time in a single-architecture kernel. > You might want to check it before suggesting it. I just had a look and > found nothing of any real use to an OS writer. It talks only in > generalities far too vague to write code to. First, I lost the original post by MS, so the attribution is fuzzy. Sorry. Sue me. ;) Second, I'm certain that the core technology of the 32-bit SPARC processors is open and published. There are even a couple of FPGA implementations of the early ones out there. I don't know where the specific docs are, but I can ask if it sounds relevant. Doc From menadeau at comcast.net Wed Nov 24 14:30:09 2004 From: menadeau at comcast.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay References: <000001c4d1cd$0a7a3ae0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza><007301c4d21c$b996edd0$0b01a8c0@Mike> Message-ID: <01ae01c4d264$68800740$0b01a8c0@Mike> > > Subject: Re: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay > > > The contents on your site are clearly copyrighted, so this guy is out of > > bounds. The first step is to ask him to remove the item from eBay. A lot of > > people don't understand copyright. They assume it applies only to material > > that is for sale. So, be polite and explain that you own the right to > > determine how and where the software is distributed. > > > > If he does not comply, then I would file a complaint with eBay. Failing > > that, a letter from a lawyer is often effective. > > To what end, this? It's a bit scorched-earth don't you think? That's the question that the copyright holder needs to answer. I'm just giving the options. In most cases, things are resolved in a friendly manner. > From menadeau at comcast.net Wed Nov 24 14:35:56 2004 From: menadeau at comcast.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay References: <20041124162131.53002.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com><010c01c4d246$883efeb0$0b01a8c0@Mike> <200411241858.NAA04712@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <01b401c4d265$36f6f2a0$0b01a8c0@Mike> > >> What if someone compiled copyrighted data (giving credit to the > >> owners) onto a CD, and gave it away for FREE, but made their money > >> by having advertising inside the contents -- would that be > >> considered ethical? > > > Just giving credit to the copyright owners doesn't mean you are in > > compliance with copyright law. > > The question asked "ethical", not "legal". They are very different for > a lot of people (and neither is a subset of the other, for many, such > as me - there are illegal things I consider ethical and legal things I > consider unethical.) > My point is that it is unethical to use someone's copyrighted material without their permission or knowledge of exactly how it will be used. It also happens to be illegal. From gordon at gjcp.net Wed Nov 24 14:50:57 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Anti-Apple Commercial edit... In-Reply-To: <7530D646-3E55-11D9-8B0E-000A95AFC830@k-huhn.com> References: <20041124034734.7DC32481C@spies.com> <2A76FB52-3DCD-11D9-8B0E-000A95AFC830@k-huhn.com> <41A4E8C6.1030608@gjcp.net> <7530D646-3E55-11D9-8B0E-000A95AFC830@k-huhn.com> Message-ID: <41A4F431.2080108@gjcp.net> Kurt Huhn wrote: > mplayer, shmemplayer. I guess I don't view a lot of random video clips > done with $codec_of_the_week. > Evidently not. I, on the other hand, do quite a lot of stringing huge packages of TIFF files into AVI files. There is some horrendously expensive software out there that does this badly, and mplayer (and its partner mencoder) that does it really well. And you don't even need X. Gordon. From tomj at wps.com Wed Nov 24 15:01:21 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Ferranti Mercury In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20041124145159.04b04de8@192.168.0.1> References: <1101298929.21777.3.camel@weka.localdomain> <1101298929.21777.3.camel@weka.localdomain> <5.2.0.9.2.20041124145159.04b04de8@192.168.0.1> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Ed Kelleher wrote: > At 02:33 PM 11/24/2004, you wrote: > > I don't think I have any hardware descriptions of it, and it > > would take me some time to look at, but I do have this picture > > > > http://wps.com/archives/Ivall/Ferranti-Mercury-computer.jpg > > Well, if it's so great, where's the steering wheel! :-) Sold on eBay!! :-) From tomj at wps.com Wed Nov 24 15:05:27 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Ferranti Mercury In-Reply-To: <1101326394.21758.78.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1101298929.21777.3.camel@weka.localdomain> <1101326394.21758.78.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > > http://wps.com/archives/Ivall/Ferranti-Mercury-computer.jpg > > That's the same pic everyone seems to have :) > You've got some interesting other stuff on there, though. They're all from a book that's reasonably available: Computer Design and Hardware Electronic Computers, Principles and Applications T.E. Ivall 1960 Iliffe and Sons Overview, history, direction, pictures, for tech audience, analog, digital state of the art Hmm, paste from OOo, ugly, data there. Try abebooks.com Mostly English machines, obviously. My next concentration... > I know we've got various Pegasus, Deuce and Leo documentation at the > museum, but I've not seen anything of the Mercury so it's something of > an unknown to me! From vcf at siconic.com Wed Nov 24 15:13:40 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Ferranti Mercury In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > > http://wps.com/archives/Ivall/Ferranti-Mercury-computer.jpg > > > > That's the same pic everyone seems to have :) > > You've got some interesting other stuff on there, though. > > They're all from a book that's reasonably available: > > Computer Design and Hardware Electronic Computers, Principles and Applications T.E. Ivall 1960 Iliffe and Sons Overview, history, direction, pictures, for tech audience, analog, digital state of the art > > Hmm, paste from OOo, ugly, data there. Try abebooks.com > > Mostly English machines, obviously. My next concentration... Speaking of photos of old computers, I was watching Revolution OS last night (I give it a thumbs up so far...really good history on GPL, OSS, etc. right from the folks who started it all) and they had some nifty pictures of the PDP-1 at MIT and other machines that I've never seen before. Good stuff. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Nov 24 15:13:13 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Daling with Mouse damage? (Not the computer kind) References: <20041120215948.NQRK24976.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: <41A4F969.1080504@jetnet.ab.ca> Dave Dunfield wrote: > Just took in a Superbrain-QD which was "stored" uncovered in a garage for > the past 10 (or more) years ... > > It's got serious mouse damage - underneath and all around the monitor was > stuffed with insulation, wood chips and bits - obviously a large nest. > > More seriously, both the main PCB and the power supply PCB are *COVERED* > in mouse droppings, and *SOAKED* in mouse urine (mostly dried up now, but > the damage has been done). Lots of corrosion and such, but it looks > repairable.... > > But both boards are covered in a layer of dried urine, sprinkled with generous > gobs of urine soaked manure (about the consistancy of fairly dry tar), which is > "glued" to the board. > > This is the worst case of mouse damage I have seen ... I would very much > appreciate any tips that can be offered on how best to clean the boards > without damaging them... ??? > > Regards, > Dave Get a RABIES shot first or what ever the local vet recomends, your life is more important. Ben. From owad at applefritter.com Wed Nov 24 15:24:31 2004 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Software for Apple I Message-ID: <20041124212431.10782@mail.earthlink.net> I'm writing a book about building an Apple I replica, going to press in January (Syngress Publishing). I'd like to include a fairly large section on software. Does anybody have any programs for the Apple I which they'd be willing to see included? These could be old, historic programs or new programs you wrote yourself. Anybody who contributes will get a copy of the book, of course. Tom -- Applefritter - Obscure, Unusual, Exceptional Painted Bytes - Original iBook Artwork From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Nov 24 15:31:27 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Ferranti Mercury In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41A4FDAF.6090803@mdrconsult.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > > >>On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: >> >> >>>>http://wps.com/archives/Ivall/Ferranti-Mercury-computer.jpg >>> >>>That's the same pic everyone seems to have :) >>>You've got some interesting other stuff on there, though. >> >>They're all from a book that's reasonably available: >> >>Computer Design and Hardware Electronic Computers, Principles and Applications T.E. Ivall 1960 Iliffe and Sons Overview, history, direction, pictures, for tech audience, analog, digital state of the art >> >>Hmm, paste from OOo, ugly, data there. Try abebooks.com >> >>Mostly English machines, obviously. My next concentration... > > > Speaking of photos of old computers, I was watching Revolution OS last > night (I give it a thumbs up so far...really good history on GPL, OSS, > etc. right from the folks who started it all) and they had some nifty > pictures of the PDP-1 at MIT and other machines that I've never seen > before. Good stuff. Heh. I got to see that flick's premiere at the SXSW film festival here. The guy who made that movie, JT Moore, presented the movie and gave some commentary about both the making of the movie and his view of the OSS/FSF/GNU/Linux culture. He really is a total geek. He obviously also started that process without any agenda or points to prove. For once we agree, Sellam. The movie's about a lot more than just Linux, and while it's very pro-Linux and pro-OpenSource in general, it comes off as pretty even-handed and non-fanatical. People like Bruce Perens and Eric Raymond get as much credit as Stallman and Torvalds do. There's also a lot of history there for anybody who ever installed AIX or SunOS or A/UX or *IX and then spent hours downloading GNU tools to make it useful. I didn't know it was out on DVD, either. There's something cheap for my Christmas list.... Doc From kenziem at sympatico.ca Wed Nov 24 15:41:19 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Ferranti Mercury In-Reply-To: <41A4FDAF.6090803@mdrconsult.com> References: <41A4FDAF.6090803@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <200411241641.21425.kenziem@sympatico.ca> On Wednesday 24 November 2004 16:31, Doc Shipley wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > >>On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > > Speaking of photos of old computers, I was watching Revolution OS last > > night (I give it a thumbs up so far...really good history on GPL, OSS, > > etc. right from the folks who started it all) and they had some nifty > > pictures of the PDP-1 at MIT and other machines that I've never seen > > before. Good stuff. > > I didn't know it was out on DVD, either. There's something cheap for > my Christmas list.... HP was distributing copies a while back, but a NW company complained about the graphic on the front cover. -- Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 Machines to trade http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/trade.html Open Source Weekend http://www.osw.ca From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Nov 24 15:50:51 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Ferranti Mercury In-Reply-To: <200411241641.21425.kenziem@sympatico.ca> References: <41A4FDAF.6090803@mdrconsult.com> <200411241641.21425.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <41A5023B.9010500@mdrconsult.com> Mike Kenzie wrote: > On Wednesday 24 November 2004 16:31, Doc Shipley wrote: >> I didn't know it was out on DVD, either. There's something cheap for >>my Christmas list.... > > > HP was distributing copies a while back, but a NW company complained about > the graphic on the front cover. Yeah, I missed out on those, and I hear that now the HP release is a major R@R3 collector item. Doc From brad at heeltoe.com Wed Nov 24 16:02:54 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: movies, open source, RMS and linux... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:31:27 CST." <41A4FDAF.6090803@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <200411242202.iAOM2spH022826@mwave.heeltoe.com> [oops. severely off topic. aren't I allowed one of these per quarter? :-)] Doc Shipley wrote: > >comes off as pretty even-handed and non-fanatical. People like Bruce >Perens and Eric Raymond get as much credit as Stallman and Torvalds do. I think that's a shame. I remember the original email Linus sent out (on usenet) about this "new os". And I think Stallman is head and shoulders above all of them. He may be mad, and a total 'PITA', but he's 10x the programmer and visionary. And I think he deserves a lot more of the credit for the open source movement. Stallman was working on open source when Linus was still in grade school. -brad From auringer at tds.net Wed Nov 24 16:05:50 2004 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Masscomp computers? In-Reply-To: <200411241153.44375.kenziem@sympatico.ca> References: <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200411241153.44375.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <41A505BE.7070004@tds.net> Mike Kenzie wrote: >On Wednesday 24 November 2004 07:25, Joe R. wrote: > > >> Does anyone on this list play with the Masscomp computers? >> >> > >I recently picked up a Masscomp 5400. > >It has several eight serial ports on the back and an ethernet connection >but the keyboard and video ports were not installed. > >I haven't done anything else with it. > >Any thoughts on logging in? > Hi Mike, If I am not mistaken, the machines I have are 5400s. They have one serial port marked local, which is for a serial console. I don't recall for sure, but I think 9600,n,8,1 would be a good bet. There is a switch on the front to select graphics/local/remote. Set it to local and restart the machine. You should get console on your terminal. Jon From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Nov 24 16:21:45 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: movies, open source, RMS and linux... In-Reply-To: <200411242202.iAOM2spH022826@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200411242202.iAOM2spH022826@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <41A50979.5090305@mdrconsult.com> Brad Parker wrote: > [oops. severely off topic. aren't I allowed one of these per quarter? :-)] > > Doc Shipley wrote: > >>comes off as pretty even-handed and non-fanatical. People like Bruce >>Perens and Eric Raymond get as much credit as Stallman and Torvalds do. > > > I think that's a shame. I remember the original email Linus sent out > (on usenet) about this "new os". Ahh. I'm sorry, I wasn't being nearly as clear as I thought I was. I meant that in a relative sense, ERS and Perens got as much credit for their work as Stallman and Torvalds got for theirs. Generally they get completely ignored. > And I think Stallman is head and shoulders above all of them. > > He may be mad, and a total 'PITA', but he's 10x the programmer and > visionary. > > And I think he deserves a lot more of the credit for the open source > movement. Stallman was working on open source when Linus was still in > grade school. No doubt. I do a lot of Linux training, some of it for seasoned *nix admins "crossing over". They're about the only ones I run into who know that GNU/FSF isn't an offshoot of Linux. I don't know Stallman personally (except through some email correspondence on behalf of a LUG), but I think your assessment is spot on. I do know and work with a couple of people who worked directly with him at FSF in the '80s and '90s, and they are completely insufferable, much in the way that Christian Scientists, Moonies, or Jehovah's Witnesses are. "If It Ain't GNU, It Can't Be True", and intrusive as hell. And yeah, I probably just managed to offend the *rest* of CCTalk. Oh, well. Doc From vcf at siconic.com Wed Nov 24 16:29:26 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Software for Apple I In-Reply-To: <20041124212431.10782@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Tom Owad wrote: > I'm writing a book about building an Apple I replica, going to press in > January (Syngress Publishing). You mean building one from scratch or building a Replica I kit? > I'd like to include a fairly large section on software. Does anybody > have any programs for the Apple I which they'd be willing to see > included? These could be old, historic programs or new programs you > wrote yourself. Here's one for you: 10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD!" 20 GOTO 10 > Anybody who contributes will get a copy of the book, of course. Thanks!! :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Wed Nov 24 16:32:18 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: <200411241858.NAA04712@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <20041124162131.53002.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> <010c01c4d246$883efeb0$0b01a8c0@Mike> <200411241858.NAA04712@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <41A50BF2.1090400@compsys.to> >der Mouse wrote: > The question asked "ethical", not "legal". They are very different for > >a lot of people (and neither is a subset of the other, for many, such >as me - there are illegal things I consider ethical and legal things I >consider unethical.) > >To answer the original question, for my own values of "ethical": maybe, >depending largely on the conditions under which the data in question >were distributed. For example, if the data travels under a license >like one of the common open-source code licenses, I see no ethical >problem with it whatever. If distributing the CD involves violating an >applicable NDA, on the other hand, I generally have much ethical >problem with it. And there's a lot of grey area in between. > Jerome Fine replies: I would appreciate a comment on RT-11 distributions. At present (with a single exception), all RT-11 distributions are still copyright. At the moment, there are a number of RT-11 distributions at: http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/dists/ which are mostly compressed bootable images of a single RT-11 distribution. They include the binary V05.03 of RT-11 image which is the oldest RT-11 distribution allowed by Mentec under the hobby license program which was arranged by Bob Supnik over 5 years ago when DEC was still DEC before it was purchased by Compaq. That hobby license allowed V05.03 of RT-11 to be used by hobby users under what has now become the SIMH emulator. Mentec (as far as I know) presently allows and has no objection to running V05.03 of RT-11 and earlier (along with associated layered products of the same time period) under the SIMH emulator. Please assume that this statement to be true for the rest of this e-mail! Note that at present, except for this single exception (under which the user is responsible for obtaining the RT-11 distribution by themselves along with any help that is required), ALL RT-11 distributions can be legally run ONLY if an RT-11 user has an RT-11 license for a minimum of $ US 900 and an RT-11 distribution for a minimum of $ US 1600. One of the files there, RT11DV10.ISO.zip is a CD collection of 13 different RT-11 distributions from V01-15 to V05.03 of RT-11. While it can be estimated it took between 500 and 1000 hours to set up the ISO file (which is also bootable under V05.03 of RT-11), it seemed appropriate to make the ISO file available for FREE as long as it was being downloaded and burned by the the user. QUESTION: If an RT-11 user were to request a copy of the CD to be burned for them (along with a nice fancy label), is it reasonable to charge for the CD and if so, what would you feel should be the maximum charge? ($ US 5, $ US 10 or maybe even $ US 30 - note that no more than a dozen copies would be likely to ever be produced since most users would opt to download and burn themselves???) OR should there never be a charge? Just asking??? As far as I understand, all of the distributions on the V1-0 CD qualify for the Mentec hobby license AND they merely duplicate what is generally available (although in a MUCH more convenient manner in one RT-11 partition so that RT-11 users (if there still are any who are interested) can use them much more easily. PLUS, this way these distributions should now NEVER be lost! In addition, even the V05.03 distribution produced by Megan Gentry is NOT self-sufficient by itself since for use with SIMH (at least when I used it) it is missing the system area required (under both SIMH and E11) if a user is to perform the RT-11 command: INITIALIZE DL0: Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Nov 24 16:58:16 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: movies, open source, RMS and linux... In-Reply-To: <41A50979.5090305@mdrconsult.com> from Doc Shipley at "Nov 24, 4 04:21:45 pm" Message-ID: <200411242258.OAA11940@floodgap.com> > "If It Ain't GNU, It Can't Be True", and intrusive as hell. > > And yeah, I probably just managed to offend the *rest* of CCTalk. > Oh, well. Well, no, not me. I'll just say that I use BSD for a reason, and leave it at that. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Put your Nose to the Grindstone! -- Plastic Surgeons-Toolmakers Union Ltd. - From vcf at siconic.com Wed Nov 24 16:43:03 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: movies, open source, RMS and linux... In-Reply-To: <200411242202.iAOM2spH022826@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Brad Parker wrote: > Doc Shipley wrote: > > > >comes off as pretty even-handed and non-fanatical. People like Bruce > >Perens and Eric Raymond get as much credit as Stallman and Torvalds do. > > I think that's a shame. I remember the original email Linus sent out > (on usenet) about this "new os". > > And I think Stallman is head and shoulders above all of them. > > He may be mad, and a total 'PITA', but he's 10x the programmer and > visionary. > > And I think he deserves a lot more of the credit for the open source > movement. Stallman was working on open source when Linus was still in > grade school. The refreshing thing about the film is that you don't have any ego or one-upmanship apparent in the interviews. Stallman is very complimentary about Torvalds and speaks highly of his contribution. He also very rationally explains how it came to be that they made all these excellent GNU tools but didn't have a kernel by the time Linus made his, and then how people put the two together to form a perfect marriage and have a full free *-nix OS. I'd heard that Stallman was pissed that Linus got all the credit, but that didn't come off at all in the film. And now that I have a much better understanding of the whole story (I must admit I never really followed it) I see now how Stallman does have a point regarding who should get the real credit for Linux. They both do really. Anyway, I've still go 40 minutes to watch so maye the mudslinging happens later on in the film. As far as fanaticism and propaganda, Bruce Perens comes off as the most obnoxious in that vein. He takes a few opportunities to slam Microsoft, and while it is deserved, some of it is a bit over the top, like his claim that Microsoft was the compnay that started the whole proprietary software thing. I suppose he's never heard of IBM, as one example? The film is available through Netflix (highly recommended...say BYE BYE Blockbuster). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Wed Nov 24 16:45:15 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Ferranti Mercury In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20041124145159.04b04de8@192.168.0.1> References: <1101298929.21777.3.camel@weka.localdomain> <1101298929.21777.3.camel@weka.localdomain> <5.2.0.9.2.20041124145159.04b04de8@192.168.0.1> Message-ID: <1101336315.3918.213.camel@fortran> On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 14:53 -0500, Ed Kelleher wrote: > At 02:33 PM 11/24/2004, you wrote: > >I don't think I have any hardware descriptions of it, and it > >would take me some time to look at, but I do have this picture > > > >http://wps.com/archives/Ivall/Ferranti-Mercury-computer.jpg > > Well, if it's so great, where's the steering wheel! :-) Hahahhahahahah! :) Yeah, and what about the DECWriter? :) -- Tore S Bekkedal From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Wed Nov 24 16:47:33 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: FYI: identity theft In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20041124145500.04b06918@192.168.0.1> References: <3.0.6.32.20041123215946.00a5b9f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.2.0.9.2.20041124145500.04b06918@192.168.0.1> Message-ID: <1101336453.3918.216.camel@fortran> On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 14:57 -0500, Ed Kelleher wrote: > Wire transfer is my preferred way of getting paid from companies overseas. > Sold a good bit of DEC stuff that way. > If you send someone a check, they have all the information they need for a > wire transfer. Yes, payment in copper or whatever the wire consists of, may be a good idea over short distances. However, if you're shipping overseas then you might as well supply money, as paper money weighs far less than wire. :) -- Tore S Bekkedal From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Nov 24 16:51:03 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Masscomp computers? In-Reply-To: <41A505BE.7070004@tds.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200411241153.44375.kenziem@sympatico.ca> <41A505BE.7070004@tds.net> Message-ID: <1101336663.21758.84.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 16:05 -0600, Jon Auringer wrote: > If I am not mistaken, the machines I have are 5400s. Whereabouts do they display the model number? The only thing of any significance on ours seemed to be a 'mwb515' on the back; it just says Masscomp on the front without any model details. ta Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Nov 24 16:53:22 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Software for Apple I In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1101336802.21777.87.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 14:29 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Tom Owad wrote: > > > I'm writing a book about building an Apple I replica, going to press in > > January (Syngress Publishing). > > You mean building one from scratch or building a Replica I kit? > > > I'd like to include a fairly large section on software. Does anybody > > have any programs for the Apple I which they'd be willing to see > > included? These could be old, historic programs or new programs you > > wrote yourself. > > Here's one for you: > > 10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD!" > 20 GOTO 10 > > > Anybody who contributes will get a copy of the book, of course. > > Thanks!! > > :) Can I have: 10 GOTO 10 for the version with screensaver?* Wow, that's the first BASIC I've written in about ten years :) *I have no idea if the Apple 1 clears the display prior to running a program. It probably doesn't... From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Nov 24 17:01:59 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Dragon32 Power-Supply Message-ID: <200411242301.PAA03095@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "John Honniball" > >Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >> Although, not particularly good practice, as long as the >> power dissipation is kept down, this is a design within specifications >> of the part. They have built in current limit and are suppose >> to be able to handle continuous loads in current limit. >> This means that they can be paralleled. > >Hmmm... OK, but they still won't be sharing the current equally. >The one that has the lower current-limit point will be at >its full capacity, while the other one will have a smaller >share of the load. At least, that's how I understand it. It is true that they won't share. One will run until it reaches its max and then the other will pick up the rest. Remember, the biggest issue is the power ( how hot it gets ). That is related to voltage drop and current, not just current by it self. > >> I once talked with some application engineers at National >> about this type of operation. > >I'm sure I've seen a note somewhere to the effect "do not >connect in parallel", but of course I've no idea where I >read that! Some regulators do not have a current shut down. They you shouldn't parallel. Others are intended to run with the current limit. These can often be paralleled. The ones that only do thermal shut down shouldn't be paralleled. If you know the current load, one can add a parallel resistor. The current load has to be relatively constant. If the regulators are close, adding some series resistance can make them share. In some cases, even some additional circuit board traces may be enough. I've seen memory banks where there were regulators on either side of the array and both sides shared relatively well. This is just from the natural drop of the traces. Dwight > >-- >John Honniball >coredump@gifford.co.uk > From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Wed Nov 24 17:03:21 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: movies, open source, RMS and linux... In-Reply-To: <41A50979.5090305@mdrconsult.com> References: <200411242202.iAOM2spH022826@mwave.heeltoe.com> <41A50979.5090305@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <1101337401.3918.220.camel@fortran> On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 16:21 -0600, Doc Shipley wrote: > I don't know Stallman personally (except through some email > correspondence on behalf of a LUG), but I think your assessment is spot > on. I do know and work with a couple of people who worked directly with > him at FSF in the '80s and '90s, and they are completely insufferable, > much in the way that Christian Scientists, Moonies, or Jehovah's > Witnesses are. "If It Ain't GNU, It Can't Be True", and intrusive as hell. > > And yeah, I probably just managed to offend the *rest* of CCTalk. > Oh, well. I fully agree with you, in fact. I work on an open source project to bring Linux software and thin clients into schools, called Skolelinux (Skole being the Norwegian word for School). I have heard rumours of a FSF fanatic (might have been RMS himself) arguing with our project leader about the title, wanting us to change the title to "Skole-GNU/Linux"!! :D -- Tore S Bekkedal From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Nov 24 17:05:23 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Making CP/M disk images Message-ID: <200411242305.PAA03099@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Richard A. Cini" > >Hello, all: > > I'm trying to make disk images of a CP/M disk from an MS-DOS machine >so I can send the images to some one else to generate disks. The CP/M >machine is a Micromint SB180. The PC is a standard Compaq 386. Both machines >have HD 5.25" drives although the format of the disk is standard 40-track. Both are HD?? Are you using the first 40 tracks on the CP/M side as compared to alternate 40 tracks on the PC side? Usually when a PC program thinks it is using 40 tracks on a HD drive, it skips every other track. Unless the firmware on the CP/M machine has modified low level code for seeking tracks, it will single step between tracks. This could be an issue when doing images. You can always do some direct to controller stuff. Several of the books on writing code for PC's describe how to setup the DMA channels and talk to the controller. I've used that to get around the problem of the first track being single density while the rest of the disk was double density. Dwight > > I've used Copy-II-PC to make disk-to-disk copies with some success >but the CP2PC software can't make images. I have not hooked-up the CP2PC >floppy controller board yet, but that could be another test option. > > I've also used Teledisk 2.12, which can make disk images but I >haven't been able to successfully regenerate a test disk image into a >working diskette. > > Are there any other disk imaging programs out there for the PC that >can read and archive CP/M-format disks? > > Thanks. > >Rich > >Rich Cini >Collector of classic computers >Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project >Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ >/************************************************************/ > > From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Nov 24 17:11:10 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay Message-ID: <200411242311.PAA03103@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Michael Nadeau" > >> > Subject: Re: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay >> >> > The contents on your site are clearly copyrighted, so this guy is out of >> > bounds. The first step is to ask him to remove the item from eBay. A lot >of >> > people don't understand copyright. They assume it applies only to >material >> > that is for sale. So, be polite and explain that you own the right to >> > determine how and where the software is distributed. >> > >> > If he does not comply, then I would file a complaint with eBay. Failing >> > that, a letter from a lawyer is often effective. >> >> To what end, this? It's a bit scorched-earth don't you think? > >That's the question that the copyright holder needs to answer. I'm just >giving the options. In most cases, things are resolved in a friendly manner. >> Hi As a Copyright holder, he needs to defend his copyright or anyone who took it to court would use this case to show that it was not being upheld. His letter might be construed as permission to publish. His wording might have been a little different. ( I'm not a lawyer and this is just personal opinion ). With most everything I've sent out, I'm just happy to see people using it. If I'd expected to have any control, I'd have sold licenses. Dwight From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 24 17:08:09 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Masscomp computers? In-Reply-To: <1101303236.21758.37.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <3.0.6.32.20041124081516.00921910@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124081516.00921910@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041124180809.0092e210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:33 PM 11/24/04 +0000, you wrote: >On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 08:15 -0500, Joe R. wrote: >> >Masscomp did indeed make multi-cpu machines, >> >> Yeap, each chassis can have up to four CPU cards. I think the dual >> chasssis machines could have up to eight but I'd have to check on that. > >I'll have to pull the cover off our one sometime just to see what it has >inside. Would be annoying to find it's just a shell (although it's heavy >enough that there's concrete in there if not :) > > >> >and also had an os called RTU (Real Time Unix). >> >> Yeap, I just sent that manual to Al K. I have at least three other >> manuals here. > >Have you (or someone else) got OS media, just in case we need copies for >ours? I have some of it. There are one of two disks inside of some of the machines. But I can probably do better than that! I just parted out four of them today and they all had 85Mb hard drives. I can ship you the drives! > >> The CPU in mine is 68020. It's card looks similar to Multibus but is >> longer and has different connector. (I'll post pictures later.) It plugs >> into the SMI bus. There's also a Multibus chassis in them for the IO cards >> AND there's also STD+ card sockets in them for data acquisition cards. STD+ >> is an enhancment of the regular STD bus. Some of them also had VME sockets! >> The use of four different busses really surprised me. > >Heh, that does seem to be slight overkill. > >> >They had early successes as graphics/cad workstations, >> >so yes they had mice. >> >> Some did, some didn't. Some only used termials but others had graphics >> capabilities. I think mine all just used terminals. > >Shame, that. Ours has graphical capability; four BNC sockets on the back >and a big CAD monitor with it (which is what drew me to the system - one >of my big interests is in graphics workstations) Just checked mine today to be sure. It does not have any graphics outputs. > >> Masscomp was bought by Concurrent, >> >so there used to be some info on the concurrent users >> >group web pages at www.ccuruser.org. That seems gone now, >> >but archive.org might help you dig up some old stuff there. >> >> There'll be lots more there soon! > >yay! :-) > >> It uses an Excelan EXOS 201 Intelligent Multibus Ethernet Controller. I >> have manuals for it. One of them has already gone to Al. > >I wonder if that's the same one as in my NCR Tower (which is also >multibus for the IO boards). EXOS rings a bell. I'll post a picture soon and you can compare against it. Or Al should have the manual poated soon. I'd guess that they're arriving at his place any day now. Just out of curiousity, let me know what kinds of Multibus card you find in the NCR tower. Joe > >cheers > >Jules > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 24 17:10:13 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Masscomp computers? In-Reply-To: <200411241153.44375.kenziem@sympatico.ca> References: <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041124181013.0092e210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:53 AM 11/24/04 -0500, Mike Kenzie wrote: >On Wednesday 24 November 2004 07:25, Joe R. wrote: >> Does anyone on this list play with the Masscomp computers? > >I recently picked up a Masscomp 5400. > >It has several eight serial ports on the back and an ethernet connection >but the keyboard and video ports were not installed. That sounds like my machines. > >I haven't done anything else with it. > >Any thoughts on logging in? I can dig out what the manual tells you to do it you want that. Joe > > >-- >Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 >Machines to trade http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/trade.html >Open Source Weekend http://www.osw.ca > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 24 17:11:43 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Making CP/M disk images In-Reply-To: <000001c4d257$47ac5300$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041124181143.00795200@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:56 PM 11/24/04 -0500, you wrote: >Hello, all: > > I'm trying to make disk images of a CP/M disk from an MS-DOS machine >so I can send the images to some one else to generate disks. The CP/M >machine is a Micromint SB180. The PC is a standard Compaq 386. Both machines >have HD 5.25" drives although the format of the disk is standard 40-track. The SB180 uses quad density drives not HD. Joe > > I've used Copy-II-PC to make disk-to-disk copies with some success >but the CP2PC software can't make images. I have not hooked-up the CP2PC >floppy controller board yet, but that could be another test option. > > I've also used Teledisk 2.12, which can make disk images but I >haven't been able to successfully regenerate a test disk image into a >working diskette. > > Are there any other disk imaging programs out there for the PC that >can read and archive CP/M-format disks? > > Thanks. > >Rich > >Rich Cini >Collector of classic computers >Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project >Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ >/************************************************************/ > > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Nov 24 17:12:38 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: movies, open source, RMS and linux... In-Reply-To: <1101337401.3918.220.camel@fortran> References: <200411242202.iAOM2spH022826@mwave.heeltoe.com> <41A50979.5090305@mdrconsult.com> <1101337401.3918.220.camel@fortran> Message-ID: <41A51566.8010608@mdrconsult.com> Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 16:21 -0600, Doc Shipley wrote: > > >> I don't know Stallman personally (except through some email >>correspondence on behalf of a LUG), but I think your assessment is spot >>on. I do know and work with a couple of people who worked directly with >>him at FSF in the '80s and '90s, and they are completely insufferable, >>much in the way that Christian Scientists, Moonies, or Jehovah's >>Witnesses are. "If It Ain't GNU, It Can't Be True", and intrusive as hell. >> >> And yeah, I probably just managed to offend the *rest* of CCTalk. >>Oh, well. > > > I fully agree with you, in fact. I work on an open source project to > bring Linux software and thin clients into schools, called Skolelinux > (Skole being the Norwegian word for School). I have heard rumours of a > FSF fanatic (might have been RMS himself) arguing with our project > leader about the title, wanting us to change the title to > "Skole-GNU/Linux"!! :D That doesn't sound like just a rumour. I mentioned corresponding with RMS on behalf of a LUG here, the University of Texas SIGLinux. RMS was planning a speaking tour and SIGL invited him here. The official FSF position, which was later verified by personal email from Stallman, was that he would be very happy to speak in Austin. As long as the official name of SIGLinux was changed to include GNU. I absolutely see RMS as the father of the open intellectual "property" revolution, not just open software. Bu after the SIGLinux deal, I have to say he's gone right over the top. Doc From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Nov 24 17:18:41 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1101338321.21758.113.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 01:02 +0000, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Interestingly, there's no feedback between the low-voltage side of the > > switching transformer and the circuitry surrounding that SOC603B 6-pin > > IC, so maybe it isn't an opto-isolator at all. All the circuitry > > That does not suprise me. Since there's a pulse transformer in the > chopper base circuit, the controller IC is on the isolated side of the > PSU (the isolation is performed by the pulse transformer), so there's no > need for any optoisolator in the voltage feedback loop. Uh huh, that makes sense. > One question. Have you found how the controller IC gets its power? Is > there a separate (maybe linear) PSU for this? Hmm, no linear PSU. I do hope it doesn't rely on the battery backup for the memory in order to start! How do typical SMPSU's start up given that there's no initial drive to the choppers to kick things off? > > surrounding it is on the 'hot' side of things, and its sole function > > seems to be to control the SCR which sits between the live input to the > > PSU and ground on the bridge output. > > > > The main PSU board seems to be responsible for generating +5V only; the > > second board (which I haven't even looked at much yet) handles +12V and > > the battery backup control. > > It may also pwrovide +5V. It sounds like the second board handles the > battery-backed lines, presumably for memory. Quite possible it does do +5V too. > > I think whoever made this thing was involved in some "design the most > > complicated PSU possible" competition :) > > No, that honour goes to the supply in the PDP11/44. The official > scheamtic is over a dozen A3 pages (!). It's 3 choppers running off the > same (coke-can size) capacitors Funnily enough, guess what capacitors I used to rule out that I didn't have a cap fault with this NCR PSU? :-) They're screw terminals so easy to borrow for testing, plus I knew they worked. > , one to provide the rest of the PSU > control circuitry with power, one for the +5V/+15V/-15V logic supplies > (the +5V line is rated at 125A IITC), one to provide a 36V line that can > be battery backed. The last is then regulated down (more switching > regulators...) to provide +5V/+12V/-12V for the memory. Oh, and there's a > full-H driver for the fans that runs off the +36V line.... As I said, > complicated... Ahhh... I didn't realise there was an H-bridge for the fans; I thought they were AC direct from ~ 30VAC on the transformer. The fans decided to keel over in one of our 11/44's after one of the feed wires got chewed and shorted against the case - everything else is still operational. Probably toasted one of the driver transistors then... > > I need to check for shorts on that second board, though. It gets fed DC > > output from the bridge, but when I tried the lightbulb trick the other > > I will refrain from flaming you just yet :-). Seriously, it would be > useful to know which, if either, board has a dead short! OK, now it gets interesting. The second board has unfused DC fed to it from the bridge output on the first board, plus it also gets DC from the bridge via an 8A fuse (said fuse is 'upstream' of the choppers etc. on the first board too) So, better safe than sorry, I left the 8A fuse out of circuit on the main board so that it wasn't trying to drive the choppers etc. on the main board, then I ran the normally-fused DC supply to the second board via a 2A fuse, just so everything didn't go sky-high. I left the unfused DC supply to the second board unfused as normal. Light bulb still connected in place of that 10 ohm resistor which kept failing. Turned on with the 2A fuse out of circuit first, so the second board was just plugged in via it's unfused rails. No problem there; light bulb lit brightly then gradually went out as the caps charged. Tried it with the 2A fuse in place next. Light bulb lit brightly, started to dim, then there was a faint pop which sounded like it came from the big silver filter brick right on the mains input. Light bulb went out. Seems like that filter brick has some sort of thermal shut-off in it, and *that's* tripping now. If I wait a bit I can re-apply power and get the same thing; i.e. it's not damaged at all. 2A fuse stayed intact, as did the light bulb. Putting a meter across the filter caps, it seems it always gets to about 200VDC and then trips. I assume that the fused supply to the second board runs something which takes a while to start up (or needs at least 200V to start working), at which point it tries to do something that relies on the unfused supply, and this is causing a problem... Will do some more digging tomorrow sometime... I'll get there eventually :) cheers Jules From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Nov 24 17:43:27 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: <200411242311.PAA03103@clulw009.amd.com> from "Dwight K. Elvey" at "Nov 24, 4 03:11:10 pm" Message-ID: <200411242343.PAA14102@floodgap.com> > >That's the question that the copyright holder needs to answer. I'm just > >giving the options. In most cases, things are resolved in a friendly manner. > As a Copyright holder, he needs to defend his copyright or anyone > who took it to court would use this case to show that it was not > being upheld. His letter might be construed as permission to publish. I'm not going to comment on the letter, but failure to defend the copyright does not weaken it. Failure to defend a trademark may represent precedent against it, but not for copyright. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Angels we have heard on High/Tell us to go out and Buy. -- Tom Lehrer ------ From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Nov 24 17:45:26 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Software for Apple I In-Reply-To: <1101336802.21777.87.camel@weka.localdomain> from Jules Richardson at "Nov 24, 4 10:53:22 pm" Message-ID: <200411242345.PAA15186@floodgap.com> > > Here's one for you: > > > > 10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD!" > > 20 GOTO 10 > > > > > Anybody who contributes will get a copy of the book, of course. > > > > Thanks!! > > :) > > Can I have: > > 10 GOTO 10 > > for the version with screensaver?* > Wow, that's the first BASIC I've written in about ten years :) > *I have no idea if the Apple 1 clears the display prior to running a > program. It probably doesn't... Fine, make it 10 HOME 20 GOTO 10 Where do I send my mailing address? ;) -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- How are you gentlemen? All your base are belong to us! --------------------- From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Nov 24 17:30:08 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Masscomp computers? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041124180809.0092e210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041124081516.00921910@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124081516.00921910@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124180809.0092e210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1101339008.21777.118.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 18:08 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > >Have you (or someone else) got OS media, just in case we need copies for > >ours? > > I have some of it. There are one of two disks inside of some of the > machines. But I can probably do better than that! I just parted out four of > them today and they all had 85Mb hard drives. I can ship you the drives! Uh oh - I reckon that might be a little expensive :) > >> It uses an Excelan EXOS 201 Intelligent Multibus Ethernet Controller. I > >> have manuals for it. One of them has already gone to Al. > > > >I wonder if that's the same one as in my NCR Tower (which is also > >multibus for the IO boards). EXOS rings a bell. > > I'll post a picture soon and you can compare against it. Or Al should > have the manual poated soon. I'd guess that they're arriving at his place > any day now. > > Just out of curiousity, let me know what kinds of Multibus card you find > in the NCR tower. Hmm, well I've got the board here - it's an Excelan board, but doesn't give a model number. Has two ROM chips in the centre (Labelled NX200H, but I expect that's an NCR label). 80186 CPU toward the top-right to drive things, and 128KB of RAM in two banks (with room for another 128KB) I remember EXOS from the photocopied documentation that I have I'm sure, but I can't get at that easily to check right now. cheers Jules From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Nov 24 17:37:29 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Software for Apple I In-Reply-To: <200411242345.PAA15186@floodgap.com> References: <200411242345.PAA15186@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <20041124153409.J41898@shell.lmi.net> 10 PRINT "Copyright 2004, Grumpy Old Fred, All rights reserved" 20 GOTO 10 YES, a copyright message CAN use a pseudonym. From auringer at tds.net Wed Nov 24 17:38:00 2004 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Masscomp computers? In-Reply-To: <1101336663.21758.84.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200411241153.44375.kenziem@sympatico.ca> <41A505BE.7070004@tds.net> <1101336663.21758.84.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <41A51B58.4050600@tds.net> Jules Richardson wrote: >On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 16:05 -0600, Jon Auringer wrote: > > >>If I am not mistaken, the machines I have are 5400s. >> >> > >Whereabouts do they display the model number? The only thing of any >significance on ours seemed to be a 'mwb515' on the back; it just says >Masscomp on the front without any model details. > That is an excellent question. First, let me say that I was incorrect about my machines being 5400s. As I looked at them, it struck me that they are actually MC500s. I know this mainly because I have a manual somewhere with a picture on the cover. I also noticed that inside one of the front panels there was a 1984 date stamped on it. The following time line I snatched from the Web would seem to collaborate this. I believe that the one Masscomp that I arranged to be donated to the Rhode Island Museum was a 5400. I believe that I still have documentation for that system. I was planning to spend some time this weekend sorting through my Masscomp stuff. If I find anything pertinent, I will let you know. Jon 1981 year Establishment. Completion of design of first system MC500 1982 year First number machine MC500 shipment From electronic product magazine most excellent annual product prize conferment 1983 year From Industrial Research and Development council 1r100 conferment 1984 year Stock in NASDAQ presentation 1985 year Second generation series MC5000 series, total 5 type 9 model announcement Japanese Massachusetts * computer corporation establishment 1985 year Superior type MC6000 series of MC5000 series announcement 1988 year In the United States, the concurrent * computer corporation and the Massachusetts * computer corporation merger From dave04a at dunfield.com Wed Nov 24 17:42:05 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay Message-ID: <20041124234204.RMDM28185.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> >Hi Dave. Hi Sellam, >You make good points overall, but I don't think it takes very much effort >to contact the authors/producers of each contribution on the CD. It's >just a matter of basic courtesy. This would take maybe an hour or two of >e-mail. They're charging $50 per CD. That's about a dollar in production >costs and $49 of profit. Assuming they sell even 5, that's still a good >return for material to which they didn't contribute. The auction I looked at (briefly) showed $10 - if he is charging $50, then this is out of the "reasonable return for the convienence" catagory, and I would agree that he should be putting a bit more effort into how he acuuires the material. My point would more apply to thing like the SIMTEL collection - the CD set has a HUGE directloty listing which is "single line per item" - adding even one line of acknowlegement would double this size, and would be negative in effect (IMO) - And most people don't look at or care about each package on the set - they read the desciptions and unpack the stuff they are interested in, at which point they get exposed to all of the authors original material, promotional or otherwise - It these cases, the CD really is not much different from an internet connection - its just a means of delivery. I looked at the listing at $10 and placed it in this catagory... I am also assuming that Rich's material is included on the CD in it's original form, as he prepared it - if not, then that would also cause me to have a problem with the CD. >You're referring to Al. I specifcally avoided mentining names, because I do not recall all of the details - this was intended as an example of how the "don't use my stuff" attitude has prevented me from obtaining some material, NOT as a flame on any particular person(s). >>Really annoying, considering that he doesn't have permission >> from most of the original authors, and claims to be preserving them and >> "making them available" ... but apparently only to the "high-speed" >> elite (but again I rant :-) > >He doesn't "claim" to be preserving them. He *IS* preserving them! >I'm sorry, but have some fucking respect. As noted above, this is not directed to a particular person ... And I DO have a great deal of respect for Al and others like him. And no dispute that these people are preserving important documents. But, anyone who takes the attitude "only to be distributed by download from my site" is NOT making them available to EVERYONE - it prevents me from obtaining much of the larger material (and doc scans tend to be large :-) No matter how well information is preserved, it is of no benefit if it is unobtainable. >> Lets have a show of hands ... anyone participatng in this list ever >> distrbure any material without obtaining explicit permission from the >> orignal author? > >The question is, do you make a practice of this? Yes, sometimes - see the "notes on documents and software" on my site for more information. Btw: I do have some of Rich's scans in my Altair section, and I *DID* contact him for permission, and he *IS* listed in my credits. I even gave him some scans of docs he was missing during our correspondance. A lot of the documents on my site have been scanned by yours truly, there are some from other sources, and some I don't even know/recall where they came from. so far nobody has minded, and as described in my "notes", I will remove any material if asked to do so by the holder of rights to that material. Rich's simulator is a bit of a different case than most "vintage material", because he is still around and supporting it. But he DOES give it away, and hasseling the creator of a $10 "collectin" CD will probably only result in its being excluded from the CD, and I do not see how this benefits anyone. BUT - the choice as to what to do is ultimately Rich's .. He asked our opinion and I gave him mine. to quote Spock, he is free to "give it all the consideration it is due". For the record: My original material from my site is welcome to be included on collection CDs and any other reasonable uses. I don't do this for money (in fact it's quite the opposite :-), I don't do this for fame/recognition ... I do it because I want people to be able to see and experience something of the era that we enjoyed, before computers became another appliance (see my FAQ for a better description of my motives and activities). Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Nov 24 17:48:39 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:52 2005 Subject: Approaches to projects (was: KM11 maintenance module In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041124154031.Q41898@shell.lmi.net> On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > A handful of buffer chips (or discretes) is a lot simpler, cheaper, more > reliable, and easier to obtain than a laptop. I do object to this modern > idea of _having_ to use a computer for everything. Really? My neighbors often discard computers, although admittedly rarely laptops. They HARDLY EVER discard a handful of buffer chips (or discretes). Therefore, the computer is cheaper and easier to obtain than components. 'Course I could get components by taking apart the discarded computers, but I seem to recall that you didn't approve of rendering working machines inoperable to get parts. > The other day I bought some simple electronic kits for flashing > Newtonsday [1] decorations produced by Velleman. I was impressed that not > only were there no custom chips, there were no chips at all. They were > based on 2-transistor astable multivibrators. > [1] Christmas to the rest of you, I guess. Couldn't you flash the lights using a discarded computer? Remember that 25 DEC == 31 OCT, which is the day of an American rowdy holiday just before your Guy Fawke's day. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jim.isbell at gmail.com Wed Nov 24 17:52:49 2004 From: jim.isbell at gmail.com (Jim Isbell, W5JAI) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: FYI: identity theft In-Reply-To: <001001c4d257$7f32f450$5b01a8c0@flexpc> References: <3.0.6.32.20041123215946.00a5b9f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <001001c4d257$7f32f450$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: I dont know if this involves direct deposit or not, but if it does, do not do it. In the US the law clearly gives anyone who can directly deposit the right to also withdraw. They claim the law is necessary (bankers loby) so that if someone deposits too much they can retrieve the excess. BUT they are not limited to only the amount of the orriginal deposit so they could drain your account. I dont even like giving the Social Security people the direct deposit ability but the government has now decided that if you want SS you have to get it by direct deposit. Same goes for my pension. The best thing to do in these cases is to have a dummy bank account, one that is FREE from monthly charges and keep just $5 in it. Then accept all payments to that account then immediately transfer the funds to your regular account. Today with computer banking its not very hard to do. I do that with my PayPal account because PayPal has the ability to withdraw from your account also. On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:57:48 -0000, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > I've been noticing something else new to E-bay too. I've > > sold several > > items to someone in Europe and they respond aaking for my > > banking info and > > claiming that they want to pay by wire transfer. I've been > > There's someone selling ESR meters in Spain or Portugal (I > forget the exact details) and his preferred method of > *accepting* cash is effectively a wire transfer (he > provides an IBAN number, you send the cash). > > I've also had several people from other parts of > Europe (I'm in the UK) asking if they can pay > directly, all I need to do is provide an IBAN for > my account. I've declined up to know (because I > have no idea how it works, what scams might lie > behind it and - most importantly - what the charges > are and who pays them!) and they've all gone on to > pay via PayPal. > > There may be a scam behind these but I don't know what > it is. Be nice to find a way to avoid the paypal > charges though! > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > > -- Jim Isbell W5JAI UV #257 CAL 27 #221 From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Nov 24 17:56:09 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Looking for BCC computer Message-ID: <200411242356.PAA03114@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I'm looking for a 486 BCC laptop computer that I can use for spare parts. Mine has a video chip that seems to be failing. I forget the model number but it is one of the color ones. I use it for all kinds of transfers of data to my vintage machines so I'd like to keep it in working order( to keep things on subject ). Dwight From aek at spies.com Wed Nov 24 17:59:06 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Masscomp computers? Message-ID: <20041124235906.C41084762@spies.com> it's an Excelan board, but doesn't give a model number -- It is a 201. Docs for the card and the basic firmware are on bitsavers. I'm trying to locate the manuals for the other (VME,Qbus,and Unibus) versions if anyone has them. The optional downloaded TCP stack had an interesting feature that the IP address was hardwired to the Ethernet adr. Between that, and it having worse performance than the code running on the main processor, most people ran the cards in logical link mode. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Nov 24 18:09:14 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Making CP/M disk images In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041124181143.00795200@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041124181143.00795200@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20041124160715.V41898@shell.lmi.net> On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > At 01:56 PM 11/24/04 -0500, you wrote: > >Hello, all: > > I'm trying to make disk images of a CP/M disk from an MS-DOS machine > >so I can send the images to some one else to generate disks. The CP/M > >machine is a Micromint SB180. The PC is a standard Compaq 386. Both machines > >have HD 5.25" drives although the format of the disk is standard 40-track. > The SB180 uses quad density drives not HD. I have encountered a non-"quad"-density 48TPI (40 track) Micromint SB180 disk format. From aek at spies.com Wed Nov 24 18:12:22 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Software for Apple I Message-ID: <20041125001222.43853486D@spies.com> How, exactly, do you plan on executing BASIC programs on an Apple I? You do realize that there was no built in BASIC, and the cassette interface was an option? The only firmware in the base machine was a 256 byte monitor program. From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Wed Nov 24 18:16:26 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Approaches to projects (was: KM11 maintenance module In-Reply-To: <20041124154031.Q41898@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <003101c4d284$023a7cc0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > Really? > My neighbors often discard computers, although admittedly > rarely laptops. > They HARDLY EVER discard a handful of buffer chips (or discretes). > Therefore, the computer is cheaper and easier to obtain than > components. I have to admit that this is generally untrue in my case. I don't recall ever getting anything from a neighbour. Enough stuff from companies to keep me happy though. That has almost always been whole (or mostly whole) machines, although I did once get given boxes of components and chips etc. I'll happily make use of anything that comes my way :-) > Couldn't you flash the lights using a discarded computer? I'm betting a few discretes would be quieter! > Remember that 25 DEC == 31 OCT, which is the day of an American > rowdy holiday just before your Guy Fawke's day. We seem to have had the same holiday thrust on our poor unsuspecting kids now. Thanks :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From owad at applefritter.com Wed Nov 24 18:24:45 2004 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Software for Apple I In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041125002445.27485@mail.earthlink.net> >> I'm writing a book about building an Apple I replica, going to press in >> January (Syngress Publishing). > >You mean building one from scratch or building a Replica I kit? The Replica I is the focus, but the circuit is described in quite a bit of detail and schematic and pcb files are included, so the reader can make modifications and have his own board printed. >> I'd like to include a fairly large section on software. Does anybody >> have any programs for the Apple I which they'd be willing to see >> included? These could be old, historic programs or new programs you >> wrote yourself. > >Here's one for you: > >10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD!" >20 GOTO 10 > >> Anybody who contributes will get a copy of the book, of course. > >Thanks!! Let me amend that to "anybody who contributes an example that is used". ;) Tom -- Applefritter - Obscure, Unusual, Exceptional Painted Bytes - Original iBook Artwork From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Nov 24 18:23:42 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Approaches to projects (was: KM11 maintenance module In-Reply-To: <20041124154031.Q41898@shell.lmi.net> References: <20041124154031.Q41898@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <7c471c134d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <20041124154031.Q41898@shell.lmi.net> Fred Cisin wrote: > My neighbors often discard computers, although admittedly rarely laptops. I've had the same experience - Them> "Would you like this computer?" Me> "What is it?" Them> "Um.. 386-25 with 1MB of RAM" Me> "To tell the truth, I don't collect PCs, they're not that rare, or even particularly useful." Them> "Oh, OK. I've got a ZX81 you can have for fifty quid. Or a C64 for ?95" Them> "They're going in the bin tomorrow, so let me know before then, ok?" See my point? > Therefore, the computer is cheaper and easier to obtain than components. Agreed. I've got, what, three PC laptops and two Acorn A4s. The lowest-spec PC laptop has been earmarked for testing various bits of hardware, the A4s are used roughly once in a blue moon (one needs a new floppy drive, though). So far the most I've hooked up to the high-spec (relatively speaking) PC laptop is an Ethernet card and the EPROM programmer. > 'Course I could get components by taking apart the discarded computers, > but I seem to recall that you didn't approve of rendering working machines > inoperable to get parts. I wouldn't object to ripping PCs apart - again, common as dirt. I would cringe at the sight of someone ripping apart a perfectly good ZX81, and if someone dared destroy an Acorn System-1 (or anything of a similar rarity or vintage), I'd probably offer the owner a few quid and buy the machine before they nuked it. They get beer money, I get some more historical computer gear to preserve. Current rarest machine: a Jupiter Ace that needs major motherboard repairs. Assuming I can get the m/b back that is :) If anyone's got a Jupiter Ace that they want rid of, I'm listening :). Same applies to MOS KIMs, Synertek SYMs/SY-VIMs, Rockwell AIM65s, that sort of thing. Speaking of which, iirc someone offered me a SYM-1 a while back.. they wanted somewhere in the region of $900 for it. Last I heard, it hit the dumpster. Real shame - then again, their property, their choice :-/ Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Smash forehead against keyboard to continue... From rcini at optonline.net Wed Nov 24 18:29:39 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: <200411242311.PAA03103@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <000601c4d285$da106f50$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> We have covered a wide range of area in this discussion...copyright maintenance and ownership is a big thing. However, like I said originally, I'm more steamed that he didn't ask first before including the program on his CD, which BTW he is making a tidy profit on. I'm tickled pink that my emulator is reaching a wider audience. The more we get the word out about preservation, the better off we'll be in the end. I'm not a "scorched earth" kind of guy, but at least I let him know that the project is active and our collective copyrights enforcable. There is no specific license for redistribution. I guess I have to create a formal "license.txt" for the program. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dwight K. Elvey Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 6:11 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay >From: "Michael Nadeau" > >> > Subject: Re: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay >> >> > The contents on your site are clearly copyrighted, so this guy is out of >> > bounds. The first step is to ask him to remove the item from eBay. A lot >of >> > people don't understand copyright. They assume it applies only to >material >> > that is for sale. So, be polite and explain that you own the right to >> > determine how and where the software is distributed. >> > >> > If he does not comply, then I would file a complaint with eBay. Failing >> > that, a letter from a lawyer is often effective. >> >> To what end, this? It's a bit scorched-earth don't you think? > >That's the question that the copyright holder needs to answer. I'm just >giving the options. In most cases, things are resolved in a friendly manner. >> Hi As a Copyright holder, he needs to defend his copyright or anyone who took it to court would use this case to show that it was not being upheld. His letter might be construed as permission to publish. His wording might have been a little different. ( I'm not a lawyer and this is just personal opinion ). With most everything I've sent out, I'm just happy to see people using it. If I'd expected to have any control, I'd have sold licenses. Dwight From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Nov 24 18:30:14 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Software for Apple I In-Reply-To: <20041125002445.27485@mail.earthlink.net> References: <20041125002445.27485@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1101342614.21777.120.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 19:24 -0500, Tom Owad wrote: > Let me amend that to "anybody who contributes an example that is used". ;) Do the examples have to work? ;) From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Nov 24 18:35:47 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Approaches to projects In-Reply-To: <7c471c134d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> References: <20041124154031.Q41898@shell.lmi.net> <7c471c134d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <41A528E3.90408@mdrconsult.com> Philip Pemberton wrote: > > I've had the same experience - > Them> "Would you like this computer?" > Me> "What is it?" > Them> "Um.. 386-25 with 1MB of RAM" > Me> "To tell the truth, I don't collect PCs, they're not that rare, or even > particularly useful." > Them> "Oh, OK. I've got a ZX81 you can have for fifty quid. Or a C64 for ?95" > Them> "They're going in the bin tomorrow, so let me know before then, ok?" > Speaking of which, iirc someone offered me a SYM-1 a while back.. they > wanted somewhere in the region of $900 for it. Last I heard, it hit the > dumpster. Real shame - then again, their property, their choice :-/ This just twists my brain. "I think this computer is worth ONE MILLLLLION DOLLARS. What, you'll give me 20 bucks? Instead of taking your twenty bucks or putting it up for no-reserve auction, I'll just throw this million-dollar computer away!!! MuaHaHaHaaaa!!!" Been there, did that, still bitter. Doc From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Wed Nov 24 18:42:30 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: movies, open source, RMS and linux... Message-ID: <0411250042.AA25614@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Doc Shipley wrote: > I absolutely see RMS as the father of the open intellectual > "property" revolution, not just open software. Bu after the SIGLinux > deal, I have to say he's gone right over the top. The fundamental problem with RMS is that he cannot make a distinction between free software / open source *philosophy* (which ought to be applicable to *all* platforms regardless of technology) and his GNU project, which is one very specific technology with one very specific set of *technical* design decisions behind it (which I happen to disagree with most emphatically). The problem can be seen in how www.fsf.org redirects to www.gnu.org (or at least it did last time I visited). MS From rcini at optonline.net Wed Nov 24 18:45:39 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: <20041124234204.RMDM28185.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: <000701c4d288$167bbdd0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Dave/Sellam: >>Btw: I do have some of Rich's scans in my Altair section, and I *DID* >>contact him for permission, and he *IS* listed in my credits. I even >>gave him some scans of docs he was missing during our correspondance. Frankly, this kind of recognition is all that I wanted for the project from this person. In the end, all that I got was a link to my Web site and no additional recognition. As far as I can tell, the files on the CD are original. As a result of this, I may publish MD5 hashes for the distributions and develop a real "license" to go along with them. I appreaciated, and was flattered, that Dave contacted me, and I was more than happy to contribute to his project in any way that I could. I wasn't planning on flaming this person or hassling him through eBay. Now, if I were in this for the money and I was writing this software for profit, then, yes, I wouldn't hesitate to bust this person. I love the Altair32 project; it's been an enormous learning experience and has enabled me to make contact with some great people, including original hardware and software developers, Microsoft Fellows, and others. I play by the rules and ask permission when/if I want to use someone else's work (like Jim Battle...thanks); I expect the same treatment in return. Like I said in a concurrent post, I'm very happy that the Altair32 is being distributed to others because it, and projects like it, can only raise the profile of our hobby (for some and business for others). Who knows...maybe some rare computer will find its way to me because someone in Sheboygan, WI bought CD#5 and found my name on it. Who knows...stranger things have happened. Thanks for all of the input. Happy Thanksgiving to all. Rich -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dave Dunfield Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 6:42 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay >Hi Dave. Hi Sellam, >You make good points overall, but I don't think it takes very much effort >to contact the authors/producers of each contribution on the CD. It's >just a matter of basic courtesy. This would take maybe an hour or two of >e-mail. They're charging $50 per CD. That's about a dollar in production >costs and $49 of profit. Assuming they sell even 5, that's still a good >return for material to which they didn't contribute. The auction I looked at (briefly) showed $10 - if he is charging $50, then this is out of the "reasonable return for the convienence" catagory, and I would agree that he should be putting a bit more effort into how he acuuires the material. My point would more apply to thing like the SIMTEL collection - the CD set has a HUGE directloty listing which is "single line per item" - adding even one line of acknowlegement would double this size, and would be negative in effect (IMO) - And most people don't look at or care about each package on the set - they read the desciptions and unpack the stuff they are interested in, at which point they get exposed to all of the authors original material, promotional or otherwise - It these cases, the CD really is not much different from an internet connection - its just a means of delivery. I looked at the listing at $10 and placed it in this catagory... I am also assuming that Rich's material is included on the CD in it's original form, as he prepared it - if not, then that would also cause me to have a problem with the CD. >You're referring to Al. I specifcally avoided mentining names, because I do not recall all of the details - this was intended as an example of how the "don't use my stuff" attitude has prevented me from obtaining some material, NOT as a flame on any particular person(s). >>Really annoying, considering that he doesn't have permission >> from most of the original authors, and claims to be preserving them and >> "making them available" ... but apparently only to the "high-speed" >> elite (but again I rant :-) > >He doesn't "claim" to be preserving them. He *IS* preserving them! >I'm sorry, but have some fucking respect. As noted above, this is not directed to a particular person ... And I DO have a great deal of respect for Al and others like him. And no dispute that these people are preserving important documents. But, anyone who takes the attitude "only to be distributed by download from my site" is NOT making them available to EVERYONE - it prevents me from obtaining much of the larger material (and doc scans tend to be large :-) No matter how well information is preserved, it is of no benefit if it is unobtainable. >> Lets have a show of hands ... anyone participatng in this list ever >> distrbure any material without obtaining explicit permission from the >> orignal author? > >The question is, do you make a practice of this? Yes, sometimes - see the "notes on documents and software" on my site for more information. Btw: I do have some of Rich's scans in my Altair section, and I *DID* contact him for permission, and he *IS* listed in my credits. I even gave him some scans of docs he was missing during our correspondance. A lot of the documents on my site have been scanned by yours truly, there are some from other sources, and some I don't even know/recall where they came from. so far nobody has minded, and as described in my "notes", I will remove any material if asked to do so by the holder of rights to that material. Rich's simulator is a bit of a different case than most "vintage material", because he is still around and supporting it. But he DOES give it away, and hasseling the creator of a $10 "collectin" CD will probably only result in its being excluded from the CD, and I do not see how this benefits anyone. BUT - the choice as to what to do is ultimately Rich's .. He asked our opinion and I gave him mine. to quote Spock, he is free to "give it all the consideration it is due". For the record: My original material from my site is welcome to be included on collection CDs and any other reasonable uses. I don't do this for money (in fact it's quite the opposite :-), I don't do this for fame/recognition ... I do it because I want people to be able to see and experience something of the era that we enjoyed, before computers became another appliance (see my FAQ for a better description of my motives and activities). Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From rcini at optonline.net Wed Nov 24 18:48:18 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Making CP/M disk images In-Reply-To: <200411242305.PAA03099@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <000801c4d288$74daad50$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Dwight: Interestingly, Teledisk did skip every other track. These are DSDD disks formatted on the SB180 machine using the "40 track" option. The drive in the SB180 is a 96TPI drive (HD) and the disk on the PC side is a standard 1.2mb. I'll have to see if Teledisk has any options that may address this. As I recall, the number of configurable options was sparse, though. Rich -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dwight K. Elvey Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 6:05 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Making CP/M disk images >From: "Richard A. Cini" > >Hello, all: > > I'm trying to make disk images of a CP/M disk from an MS-DOS machine >so I can send the images to some one else to generate disks. The CP/M >machine is a Micromint SB180. The PC is a standard Compaq 386. Both machines >have HD 5.25" drives although the format of the disk is standard 40-track. Both are HD?? Are you using the first 40 tracks on the CP/M side as compared to alternate 40 tracks on the PC side? Usually when a PC program thinks it is using 40 tracks on a HD drive, it skips every other track. Unless the firmware on the CP/M machine has modified low level code for seeking tracks, it will single step between tracks. This could be an issue when doing images. You can always do some direct to controller stuff. Several of the books on writing code for PC's describe how to setup the DMA channels and talk to the controller. I've used that to get around the problem of the first track being single density while the rest of the disk was double density. Dwight > > I've used Copy-II-PC to make disk-to-disk copies with some success >but the CP2PC software can't make images. I have not hooked-up the CP2PC >floppy controller board yet, but that could be another test option. > > I've also used Teledisk 2.12, which can make disk images but I >haven't been able to successfully regenerate a test disk image into a >working diskette. > > Are there any other disk imaging programs out there for the PC that >can read and archive CP/M-format disks? > > Thanks. > >Rich > >Rich Cini >Collector of classic computers >Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project >Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ >/************************************************************/ > > From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Nov 24 18:57:02 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Approaches to projects Message-ID: <200411250057.QAA03125@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Doc Shipley" > >Philip Pemberton wrote: >> >> I've had the same experience - >> Them> "Would you like this computer?" >> Me> "What is it?" >> Them> "Um.. 386-25 with 1MB of RAM" >> Me> "To tell the truth, I don't collect PCs, they're not that rare, or even >> particularly useful." >> Them> "Oh, OK. I've got a ZX81 you can have for fifty quid. Or a C64 for ?95" >> Them> "They're going in the bin tomorrow, so let me know before then, ok?" > > > >> Speaking of which, iirc someone offered me a SYM-1 a while back.. they >> wanted somewhere in the region of $900 for it. Last I heard, it hit the >> dumpster. Real shame - then again, their property, their choice :-/ > > This just twists my brain. > > "I think this computer is worth ONE MILLLLLION DOLLARS. What, you'll >give me 20 bucks? Instead of taking your twenty bucks or putting it up >for no-reserve auction, I'll just throw this million-dollar computer >away!!! MuaHaHaHaaaa!!!" > > Been there, did that, still bitter. > > > Doc > Hi Still can't imagine a SYM-1 being worth $900. From $75 to maybe $150 someplace is more like it. It has little to be note worthy of that I know of. The KIM is more recognized as a historic board. I doubt if that person though it was actually worth something that they'd have thrown it away, regardless of what they said. Still, for one rounding out their 6502 collection, the SYM-1 is a nice item to have. Dwight From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 24 18:22:04 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Dragon32 Power-Supply In-Reply-To: <1101299483.21758.11.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Nov 24, 4 12:31:23 pm Message-ID: > There's an uncomfirmed rumour that the proper Acorn Atom brick is the > same as the Dragon 32 one, just with a different lead (and unused taps > on the transformer presumably!). Considering the Dragon brick has 2 AC outputs (14-0-14 and 8.5V) and the Atom brick has a 9V DC output, I think that's highly unlikely!. The case might be the same, but the internals are different. > > In the six or so Atoms that have passed through my hands though I've > never had one with the original supply, so I can't confirm that :) (All > of mine have either been kits - and I assume the PSU was optional - or > previous owners have bypassed the regulators and used a more capable > supply) The reuglators in the Atom were marginal at the best of times, and it was a semi-official mod to make the machine run off an external 5V supply bypassing the regulators. > > I'm not sure what voltages the D32 uses internally. I've been told that > the D64 regulator board is different to the D32 one even though it uses > the same brick - so it's possible half the outputs of the brick aren't > even used in a D32... The Dragon 32 needs +5V (obviously), +12V and at least one of -12V and -5V. AFAIK all the outputs from the brick are used. The D64 PSU board IIRC includes at least part of the serial port circuit (not present on the D32), which is presumably why it's a different PCB. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 24 18:49:12 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: <1101338321.21758.113.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Nov 24, 4 11:18:41 pm Message-ID: > > One question. Have you found how the controller IC gets its power? Is > > there a separate (maybe linear) PSU for this? > > Hmm, no linear PSU. I do hope it doesn't rely on the battery backup for > the memory in order to start! How do typical SMPSU's start up given that > there's no initial drive to the choppers to kick things off? All sorts of ways. It's easy when the chopper controller is on the mains side of the PSU, becasue you can use a resistor from the +ve side of the smoothing capacitor to get things going, then take a supply from a separate winding on the chopper transformer. This you clearly can't do if the controller iC is on the isolated side of the supply. In that case, you can have an auxilliary supply (which may be linear or another switcher -- the 11/44 supply does the latter). Or a suparate startup circuit on the mains side of the PSU to kick the choppers into operation and get _some_ outputs which will then get the chopper control IC going (I remember with horror the PSU in th DEC (Hitachi) VR241 monitor!). I've never heard of one that needs a battery > > regulators...) to provide +5V/+12V/-12V for the memory. Oh, and there's a > > full-H driver for the fans that runs off the +36V line.... As I said, > > complicated... > > Ahhh... I didn't realise there was an H-bridge for the fans; I thought > they were AC direct from ~ 30VAC on the transformer. The fans decided to > keel over in one of our 11/44's after one of the feed wires got chewed > and shorted against the case - everything else is still operational. A common problem that will kill one (or more) of the transistors in the H-bridge. Pull the leftmost PCB in the PSU case, the fan driver is towards the bottom of that board (watch out, one of the choppers -- for the startup supply -- is on there too, so there's mains around!). I think there may also be a picofuse on that board that you should check. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 24 18:29:56 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: <000f01c4d223$834768c0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> from "Richard A. Cini" at Nov 24, 4 07:45:42 am Message-ID: > > All: > > Thanks for the comments on this. Dave pointed out that Dynacomp has been > around for a looooong time. His auction listing even indicates something to > the effect of "delivering quality software since 1975" which meshes nicely > with Dave's recollection. > > The product is indeed copyrighted, with no GPL. The source files do contain > a copyright notice but not an "All Rights Reserved." legend. However, I > expect people to download it, play with it, make enhancements, and then > contribute back. That's how we were able to move the project to where it is > today. A couple of days ago somebody on this list mentioned they were having PCBs made for a DEC KM11 (maintenance board) clone based on my design. And that they intended to sell said PCBs and/or kits. Now, for the record, I was never asked if I minded about this. I never gave permission. To be honest, I _don't_ mind. I prodcued that design initially to get my own 11/45 running, and shared it with the world in the hope that it would keep a few more machines going. And if somebody wants to make PCBs for it, fine, go ahead. I am not going to stop you. But do you think I should have been asked first? My view is that once I put something on the web, I've allowed any member of the public to download it. Whether they do this by downloading it from the site or by buying a CD-ROM with it on makes no difference to me. I do (of course) insist that any acknowledgements remain intact (if only so you know who to moan at when things go wrong ;-)). Based on the fact that I have no CD burner (only a reader), limited hard disk space, and a slow dial-up connection, I'd often rather purchase a CD-ROM than download large files myself. Preventing your work from appearing on such CD-ROMs seems to be rather selfish to me. > > I'm twixt and tween...putting it on a compilation CD at least gets the > product out to a wider audience. However, since I (and a few others) are the > copyright holders to the emulator, and I am the "owner" of the project, I > feel that I should have been at least given the courtesy of being asked. I would agree with that. > Since this person has sold software as a business in the past, even in the > "early days" of computing, he should appreicate that. > > Thanks for the input on this. I'm going to drop this person a note. > > Rich -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 24 19:00:45 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Approaches to projects (was: KM11 maintenance module In-Reply-To: <20041124154031.Q41898@shell.lmi.net> from "Fred Cisin" at Nov 24, 4 03:48:39 pm Message-ID: > > On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > A handful of buffer chips (or discretes) is a lot simpler, cheaper, more > > reliable, and easier to obtain than a laptop. I do object to this modern > > idea of _having_ to use a computer for everything. > > Really? > My neighbors often discard computers, although admittedly rarely laptops. Not over here they don't... > They HARDLY EVER discard a handful of buffer chips (or discretes). I've just looked at my KM11 clone. It's got 6 chips in it. 4 ULN2003's (pr 2803s, not using one secion of each), a 7400 and a 7406. It would be easier for me to find those than to find any computer... It wouls also probably be cheaper for me to buy those chips than to get the necessary software for the computer. Even if it's all open-source, including the OS, I'd still have to download it. Then there's the issue of where the heck do I put another computer, how do I set it up near the DEC machine I'm tryign to repair (my KM11 clone is in a small plastic box, much smaller than a laptop), the fact that the physical toggle swithces are a lot easier tha using a mouse (and finding somewhere to use it near the PDP...) and so on. And FWIW I have been given several large bags/boxes of new ICs, transistors, etc that were going to be thrown out... > Therefore, the computer is cheaper and easier to obtain than components. > 'Course I could get components by taking apart the discarded computers, > but I seem to recall that you didn't approve of rendering working machines > inoperable to get parts. PCs don't count ;-). > > > > The other day I bought some simple electronic kits for flashing > > Newtonsday [1] decorations produced by Velleman. I was impressed that not > > only were there no custom chips, there were no chips at all. They were > > based on 2-transistor astable multivibrators. > > [1] Christmas to the rest of you, I guess. > > Couldn't you flash the lights using a discarded computer? I did. I've got a set of Newtonsday lights controlled by a PERQ 2 T4.... Now that _is_ overkill.... > > > Remember that 25 DEC == 31 OCT, which is the day of an American > rowdy holiday just before your Guy Fawke's day. Indeed. Newtonseday is much the same as Halloween.... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 24 19:13:15 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Approaches to projects (was: KM11 maintenance module In-Reply-To: <7c471c134d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> from "Philip Pemberton" at Nov 25, 4 00:23:42 am Message-ID: > > Therefore, the computer is cheaper and easier to obtain than components. > > Agreed. I've got, what, three PC laptops and two Acorn A4s. The lowest-sp= I don;'t have a single PC-compatible laptop. I've got a Tandy M100, a handful of Epson HX20s and a PX4, an HP110 and a couple of Portable Pluses..... I do use them, but I don't think any are particularly suitable for making a KM11 clone. Incidentally, if you use a laptop to make a KM11 clone, presumably you need some hardware to link it to the KM11 slot on the DEC backplane. I can't believe that's the sort of thing that's thrown out by your neighbour (or, indeed, is as easy and cheap to obtain as a few buffer chips). > I wouldn't object to ripping PCs apart - again, common as dirt. I would > cringe at the sight of someone ripping apart a perfectly good ZX81, and i= What's this love of the ZX81, which I regard as a postively horrible machine. I'd not rip one apart, though, mainly because there's little of use to raid from it... > Current rarest machine: a Jupiter Ace that needs major motherboard repair= > s. > Assuming I can get the m/b back that is :) > > If anyone's got a Jupiter Ace that they want rid of, I'm listening :). = I've only got one, and I'm hanging on to it. I happen to like Forth (and RPN in general). -tony From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Nov 24 19:26:04 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Approaches to projects In-Reply-To: <200411250057.QAA03125@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200411250057.QAA03125@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <73fd21134d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <200411250057.QAA03125@clulw009.amd.com> "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > Still can't imagine a SYM-1 being worth $900. From $75 to maybe > $150 someplace is more like it. It has little to be note worthy > of that I know of. Aside from being a "better KIM"? ISTR it was basically a KIM with a few extras (oscilloscope output, a la the Poptronics Scopewriter) added. I don't think it used the mask-programmed RIOT chips either, unlike the KIM, which makes it (slightly) easier to fix if something goes wrong. I'd be tempted to add a bus-buffer board between the SBC and any off-board hardware. I'd rather blow up a handful of 74LS244s than a pair of 6532s (or, worse, an entire board). > Still, for one rounding out their 6502 collection, the SYM-1 > is a nice item to have. I agree. I've got a homebrew 6502 computer here - a backplane, a CPU card, an RS232 interface card... and an SP0256 speech synthesizer. That was fun to play with :) Only problem is, with the backplane filled, the timing got screwed up pretty badly. At 2MHz it's fine, but if you go above that, it fails to boot ("03 RAM CHECK"). I think I need to rebuild the backplane and add some bus-buffer chips this time... Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Reactance: your imaginary friend. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Nov 24 19:40:39 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Approaches to projects (was: KM11 maintenance module In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <085323134d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > I don;'t have a single PC-compatible laptop. I've got a Tandy M100, a > handful of Epson HX20s and a PX4, an HP110 and a couple of Portable > Pluses..... I do use them, but I don't think any are particularly > suitable for making a KM11 clone. On the smaller end of the scale, I've got a HP Omnigo 700LX (i.e. 200LX with a built in Nokia DataCard) and a Psion Organiser II. Both fairly nice machines, but the Org2 is a power-hungry little beasty... > What's this love of the ZX81, which I regard as a postively horrible > machine. I'd not rip one apart, though, mainly because there's little of > use to raid from it... I think it's a pretty nasty machine too - just picked it off the top of my head as an example :) Of course, feel free to replace "ZX81" in that sentence with "PERQ". The meaning still ends up the same :) > > If anyone's got a Jupiter Ace that they want rid of, I'm listening :). = > > I've only got one, and I'm hanging on to it. I happen to like Forth (and > RPN in general). Hmm, you mean along the lines of: 1 2 + . .. which gives the answer "3". (I *think* that's FORTH, not sure though). I might actually have a go at designing an RPN calculator at some point. Might make a fun project, especially seeing as I just got my PIC microcontroller programmer running again... Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Bored at 3:00 a.m.? PSSSTTT - got a modem? From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed Nov 24 20:07:11 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: <000601c4d285$da106f50$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Message-ID: <000001c4d293$79e283d0$6e7ba8c0@p933> Maybe I'm missing the obvious, but if he is able to sell these items then there is no reason other folks can't do the same. Maybe someone should compile the CDs onto one DVD and sell that or, even better, just resell his CDs. After all, he doesn't own rights to any of this. . . Am I being too vindictive for the holiday season? Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Richard A. Cini Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 4:30 PM However, like I said originally, I'm more steamed that he didn't ask first before including the program on his CD, which BTW he is making a tidy profit on. From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Nov 24 20:04:37 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Paper Tape Punch References: <000501c4d22f$070d1410$4a406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <002b01c4d293$a09c4d80$0100a8c0@screamer> Adapter for which HP processor? For an HP 1000, you need an 8-bit duplex register board, but a 16-bit duplex register will also work. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keys" To: "cctalk@classiccmp" Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 9:08 AM Subject: Paper Tape Punch > Finally got my Facit 4070 Paper Tape Punch that I purchased last year home > last night. I got the punch and a HP 9884A Tape Punch Operating and > Service Manual and nothing else. Anyone have the adapter with cable for > this and some HP paper tapes (#9280-0229)? From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Nov 24 20:22:10 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: movies, open source, RMS and linux... In-Reply-To: <41A50979.5090305@mdrconsult.com> from "Doc Shipley" at Nov 24, 2004 04:21:45 PM Message-ID: <200411250222.iAP2MASc008078@onyx.spiritone.com> > I don't know Stallman personally (except through some email > correspondence on behalf of a LUG), but I think your assessment is spot > on. I do know and work with a couple of people who worked directly with > him at FSF in the '80s and '90s, and they are completely insufferable, > much in the way that Christian Scientists, Moonies, or Jehovah's > Witnesses are. "If It Ain't GNU, It Can't Be True", and intrusive as hell. > > And yeah, I probably just managed to offend the *rest* of CCTalk. > Oh, well. It's the GNU Fanatics that bother me. Personally I'm more than a little sick of the whole lot. I'd love to see a version of Linux that uses the BSD tools rather than the GNU tools, though getting rid of gcc would be more than a little difficult. Zane From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Nov 24 20:22:04 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Found : two TK50 tapes with Microvax II S/W References: <200411232059.iANKxM20026126@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <003101c4d295$a32a8790$0100a8c0@screamer> Once upon a time I used to test and configure MicroVAX II's for Ben Heffron... Back in the day, I got the following TK50 tapes: Tape #1, marked "MicroVax II Service Diagnostics", dated 10/6/89. Tape #2, marked "VWSDemo.bak, Flight017.bak backup/save sets" The first tape needs no explaination, the second tape is a rather cool 'toy' we ran on two microvax II's with the graphics boards and mice, it was an interactive combat flight simulator (rather primative). I recall getting to shoot down one of the other tech's day after day. At any rate, said tapes are seeking a new home. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Nov 24 20:25:03 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: movies, open source, RMS and linux... In-Reply-To: <41A51566.8010608@mdrconsult.com> References: <200411242202.iAOM2spH022826@mwave.heeltoe.com> <41A50979.5090305@mdrconsult.com> <1101337401.3918.220.camel@fortran> <41A51566.8010608@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: > I absolutely see RMS as the father of the open intellectual >"property" revolution, not just open software. Bu after the >SIGLinux deal, I have to say he's gone right over the top. He went over the top a *YEARS* ago, and personally I think he does more harm than good. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Nov 24 20:46:03 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Found : two TK50 tapes with Microvax II S/W In-Reply-To: <003101c4d295$a32a8790$0100a8c0@screamer> References: <200411232059.iANKxM20026126@mwave.heeltoe.com> <003101c4d295$a32a8790$0100a8c0@screamer> Message-ID: <41A5476B.6000605@mdrconsult.com> Bob Shannon wrote: > Once upon a time I used to test and configure MicroVAX II's for Ben > Heffron... > > Back in the day, I got the following TK50 tapes: > > Tape #1, marked "MicroVax II Service Diagnostics", dated 10/6/89. > > Tape #2, marked "VWSDemo.bak, Flight017.bak backup/save sets" > > The first tape needs no explaination, the second tape is a rather cool > 'toy' we ran > on two microvax II's with the graphics boards and mice, it was an > interactive > combat flight simulator (rather primative). > > I recall getting to shoot down one of the other tech's day after day. > > At any rate, said tapes are seeking a new home. SCHWINNG! I just put together a VMS VAXstation with TZ30 with the express purpose of making a SAVESETof the MV-II Diags - Customer and Field Maintenance - tapes that I have. The Maintenance tape is suspect, so a comparison tape would be groovy. I'll image them and then pass them on if somebody else wants the originals. I also have Terry Murphy's MV-I Diags on RX50 that I need to image. I just last month got a probably-good floppy drive for the MV-II, so I should be able to image them if not test them. Al, do you want copies of this stuff? Doc From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Nov 24 20:47:20 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Approaches to projects (was: KM11 maintenance module In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041124184337.T46228@shell.lmi.net> On Thu, 25 Nov 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > What's this love of the ZX81, which I regard as a postively horrible > machine. I'd not rip one apart, though, mainly because there's little of > use to raid from it... I used a Sinclair for years as a doorstop. I much prefer wedge type doorstops over boat anchor style (such as monitors, printers, or XTs). But one day, somebody WANTED it. So, I traded the Sinclair to him for a rubber wedge doorstop. THe rubber wedge doesn't work anywhere near as well as the Sinclair, but the trade made somebody very happy. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Nov 24 20:56:58 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: PCs don't count ;-).(was: Approaches to projects (was: KM11 maintenance module In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041124184912.W46228@shell.lmi.net> On Thu, 25 Nov 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > My neighbors often discard computers, although admittedly rarely laptops. > Not over here they don't... Around here, there are periodic curbside bulk pickups. Those are full of PCs, Deskjet printers that are out of ink (ink cartridges cost more than a new printer WITH ink?), monitors, and occasional interesting computers. > > 'Course I could get components by taking apart the discarded computers, > > but I seem to recall that you didn't approve of rendering working machines > > inoperable to get parts. > PCs don't count ;-). AH! Thanks for the clarification. Back when the show staff would steal our sandwiches, cookies, beer, etc. from our Comdex booth every night, we started to use a gutted Compaq case for hiding our goodies, and smuggling them in. Until now, I was afraid to tell THIS group. > > Couldn't you flash the lights using a discarded computer? > I did. I've got a set of Newtonsday lights controlled by a PERQ 2 T4.... > Now that _is_ overkill.... No, that is REAL class! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Nov 24 21:15:53 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Approaches to projects (was: KM11 maintenance module In-Reply-To: <20041124184337.T46228@shell.lmi.net> from Fred Cisin at "Nov 24, 4 06:47:20 pm" Message-ID: <200411250315.TAA13162@floodgap.com> > I used a Sinclair for years as a doorstop. Apparently so did Commodore; there's an apocryphal story that during their 1983-4 trade-in deal for certain competing home systems (including the T/S line), Commodore got so many Sinclairs due to their low price that they ended up using many of them to hold doors open in West Chester. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- IBM is not a necessary evil. IBM is not necessary. -- Ted Nelson ----------- From aek at spies.com Wed Nov 24 21:08:49 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: facit 4070 schematic Message-ID: <20041125030849.7B35245A2@spies.com> found the schematic in some varian peripheral schematics am still working on trying to find an HP 2753A manual. Talked to Jeff M. tonight, he'll check his docs. www.bitsavers.org/pdf/facit/4070_schematic.pdf From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Nov 24 21:30:02 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Found : two TK50 tapes with Microvax II S/W In-Reply-To: <41A5476B.6000605@mdrconsult.com> References: <200411232059.iANKxM20026126@mwave.heeltoe.com> <003101c4d295$a32a8790$0100a8c0@screamer> <41A5476B.6000605@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <41A551BA.9030400@mdrconsult.com> Doc Shipley wrote: > I just put together a VMS VAXstation with TZ30 with the express > purpose of making a SAVESETof the MV-II Diags - Customer and Field > Maintenance - tapes that I have. The Maintenance tape is suspect, so a > comparison tape would be groovy. > > I'll image them and then pass them on if somebody else wants the > originals. > > I also have Terry Murphy's MV-I Diags on RX50 that I need to image. I > just last month got a probably-good floppy drive for the MV-II, so I > should be able to image them if not test them. > > Al, do you want copies of this stuff? Manifest: Tape: AQ-GM5AN-DN [v.122 handwritten] 0MUN087161 [or 0MUN0S7161] MVII DIAG MAINT TK50 AQ-GL5AP-DN 000MRB7535 MV DIAG CUST TK50 RX50: MicroVAX Diags MDM v2.1 Rx50 Disks A-C MicroVAX Diagnostics MDM v2.1 A,B,1-8 None of the floppies are originals, and would not boot the MV-II with RX50 I tried them on last year, so they may be MV-I specific, or trash, or the RX50 I had was flaky. I don't know whether either variation is complete, but both variations have 2 identical sets, so that's a good sign. As I said, I'm looking to revive the MV-II this month with a different RX50 drive, so I'll give it another stab. Does anybody know if these should boot on a KA630? That would be Useful Information. I *can* attest that the cptape archive I have of the Maintenance Diags TK50 will build on a NetBSD machine and will format an RD52 and a non-DEC ST251 as an RD32. I've just never been convinced that the original I have is undamaged. Doc From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 24 22:53:46 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Masscomp computers? In-Reply-To: <1101336663.21758.84.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <41A505BE.7070004@tds.net> <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200411241153.44375.kenziem@sympatico.ca> <41A505BE.7070004@tds.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041124235346.009d1b80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Mine has a sticker on the back but the model number on it is totally meaningless. I decided that it's a MC5600 based on the number of CPUs and number of card slots and the physical description of the machine. FWIW this one is a rack mount version and there's almost no mention of it in the manuals except in the installation manual. The manuals that I have are for the MC5600/5700 and MC6600/6700 series. You may have a completely different model. Joe At 10:51 PM 11/24/04 +0000, you wrote: >On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 16:05 -0600, Jon Auringer wrote: >> If I am not mistaken, the machines I have are 5400s. > >Whereabouts do they display the model number? The only thing of any >significance on ours seemed to be a 'mwb515' on the back; it just says >Masscomp on the front without any model details. > >ta > >Jules > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 24 20:43:52 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Masscomp computers? In-Reply-To: <1101339008.21777.118.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <3.0.6.32.20041124180809.0092e210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124081516.00921910@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124081516.00921910@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124180809.0092e210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041124214352.009daba0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:30 PM 11/24/04 +0000, you wrote: >On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 18:08 -0500, Joe R. wrote: >> >Have you (or someone else) got OS media, just in case we need copies for >> >ours? >> >> I have some of it. There are one of two disks inside of some of the >> machines. But I can probably do better than that! I just parted out four of >> them today and they all had 85Mb hard drives. I can ship you the drives! > >Uh oh - I reckon that might be a little expensive :) It shouldn't be too expensive. They're FH 5 1/4" drives not 8". > >> >> It uses an Excelan EXOS 201 Intelligent Multibus Ethernet Controller. I >> >> have manuals for it. One of them has already gone to Al. >> > >> >I wonder if that's the same one as in my NCR Tower (which is also >> >multibus for the IO boards). EXOS rings a bell. >> >> I'll post a picture soon and you can compare against it. Or Al should >> have the manual poated soon. I'd guess that they're arriving at his place >> any day now. >> >> Just out of curiousity, let me know what kinds of Multibus card you find >> in the NCR tower. > >Hmm, well I've got the board here - it's an Excelan board, but doesn't >give a model number. Has two ROM chips in the centre (Labelled NX200H, >but I expect that's an NCR label). 80186 CPU toward the top-right to >drive things, and 128KB of RAM in two banks (with room for another >128KB) The 80186 CPU and 128k sound right the the Excelan board. I just checked the pictures that I took and I realized that the card in that computer was an EXOS 201 made Computing Machinery Corp. I have an Excelan card in another machine, I'll get a picture of it later. Joe > >I remember EXOS from the photocopied documentation that I have I'm sure, >but I can't get at that easily to check right now. > >cheers > >Jules > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 24 21:15:35 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Pictures Re: Masscomp computers? In-Reply-To: <1101339008.21777.118.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <3.0.6.32.20041124180809.0092e210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124081516.00921910@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124081516.00921910@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124180809.0092e210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041124221535.009db370@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> OK I just finished posting some pictures of the Masscomp machine that I took apart. Here they are: Here is a picture of the front . This particular unit is in a rack mount chassis and the top cover is ajar. Here is a picture of the top view. It's a 19" wide chassis so you can get an idea of how long it is. And gues what's it's even heavier than it looks!!! The manual says that it weighs 120 pounds. Here is a picture of the insides with the top removed. The SMI and Multibus boards all fit in the same card cage but have different connectors. The bottom three cards are the CPU card (bottom slot) . It's what Masscomp calls a CMPU and has a 68020 CPU. Note that it fits the SMI bus. Then two CMM 2Mb memory cards . The next card up is the Auxillery Function Module and it's also a SMI card. The SMI and Mutlibus cards are intermixed to a degree but I haven't taken the time to figure out the order of their mixing. Multibus cards: In no particular order these are: (1) this card that I can't remember what it is . (2) This Burr Brown MP830-72 data aquisition card . (3) This EXOS 210 Ethernet card made by Computing Machinery CDorp . Note that the Masscomp card cage has DEEP slots and all the standard size Multibus cards sit very low in it. Therefore all the standard size Multibus cards have thse green extensions hooked onto them as soon in this picture. (4) Next is a NCR HPSIO Intelligent I/O card with 8 RS-232 ports and one parallel port . (5) Then a Data Translation DT 5712 data acquisition card . (6) The last card in the system (topmost) is a XMC (hard)disk/floppy/tape controller . I believe this actually a XYLogics 431 card. OK that's all. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 24 21:28:17 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Making CP/M disk images In-Reply-To: <20041124160715.V41898@shell.lmi.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20041124181143.00795200@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124181143.00795200@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041124222817.009de100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:09 PM 11/24/04 -0800, you wrote: >On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> At 01:56 PM 11/24/04 -0500, you wrote: >> >Hello, all: >> > I'm trying to make disk images of a CP/M disk from an MS-DOS machine >> >so I can send the images to some one else to generate disks. The CP/M >> >machine is a Micromint SB180. The PC is a standard Compaq 386. Both machines >> >have HD 5.25" drives although the format of the disk is standard 40-track. >> The SB180 uses quad density drives not HD. > >I have encountered a non-"quad"-density 48TPI (40 track) Micromint SB180 >disk format. The SB180 can support a number of different drives including 3.5", 5.25" and 8" but quad density 5.25" was the norm. That's what was used in all of the Circuit Celler articles. I've never seen one with anything else. I have three SB180s and they all use HH QD 5.25" drives. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 24 21:32:36 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: FYI: identity theft In-Reply-To: References: <001001c4d257$7f32f450$5b01a8c0@flexpc> <3.0.6.32.20041123215946.00a5b9f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <001001c4d257$7f32f450$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041124223236.009d3ea0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:52 PM 11/24/04 -0600, Jim wrote: >I dont know if this involves direct deposit or not, but if it does, do >not do it. In the US the law clearly gives anyone who can directly >deposit the right to also withdraw. They claim the law is necessary >(bankers loby) so that if someone deposits too much they can retrieve >the excess. BUT they are not limited to only the amount of the >orriginal deposit so they could drain your account. I dont even like >giving the Social Security people the direct deposit ability but the >government has now decided that if you want SS you have to get it by >direct deposit. Same goes for my pension. > >The best thing to do in these cases is to have a dummy bank account, >one that is FREE from monthly charges and keep just $5 in it. Then >accept all payments to that account then immediately transfer the >funds to your regular account. Today with computer banking its not >very hard to do. I do that with my PayPal account because PayPal has >the ability to withdraw from your account also. That's just one more reason that I refuse to accept Paypal!!!!!!! I take checks, cash and money orders PERIOD. That way I don't have to worry about someone draining my account. Joe From aek at spies.com Wed Nov 24 22:13:01 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Masscomp computers? Message-ID: <20041125041301.6544946D3@spies.com> http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/masscomp/unknown.jpg is an Ikon DR11 interface (assuming those two connectors are 40 pins) From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Nov 24 22:53:05 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: OT: Need Mac TCP Guru Message-ID: I'd really like to exchange some Off-List mail with a Listmember who is fluent in Apple Mac Comms - I've got a very obsucre set of intelocking problems that is keeping my G4 from talking over it's ethernet port, which I need it desperately to do - so I can download some patches for *another* program that is misbehaving... aarrgh... If anyone is familiar with the intricacies of the TCP/IP implementation (currently running OS9.2.2) and could offer some advice, I'd be very grateful... Please respond off-list - thanks! Cheers John From appleto at gmail.com Wed Nov 24 22:53:11 2004 From: appleto at gmail.com (Ronald Wayne) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: <000001c4d293$79e283d0$6e7ba8c0@p933> References: <000601c4d285$da106f50$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> <000001c4d293$79e283d0$6e7ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: Have you ever tried asking a company like Google to pull your usenet posts from their archive, because they are violating copyrights? Did you get a response? To make a long story short: I did this a few years back and received no response. Like it or not, the only value in a copyright is if you are both willing and able to sue the individual who is violating it. If you are unable or unwilling to do so, then there is absolutely no point in having draconian copying policies. You may as well put your work into the public domain or place it under the GPL (or something similar). In either case you are likely to receive more contributions from third parties. If it is under the GPL, you may even have assistance if you have to go after somebody for copyright infringment (at the very least you can send the GPL lynch mob after them). From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Nov 24 23:48:31 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: movies, open source, RMS and linux... In-Reply-To: <41A50979.5090305@mdrconsult.com> References: <200411242202.iAOM2spH022826@mwave.heeltoe.com> <41A50979.5090305@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <200411250557.AAA17493@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I do know and work with a couple of people who worked directly with > [Stallman] at FSF in the '80s and '90s, and they are completely > insufferable, much in the way that Christian Scientists, Moonies, or > Jehovah's Witnesses are. "If It Ain't GNU, It Can't Be True", and > intrusive as hell. Yeah, anyone who's drunk the kool-aid is, pretty much regardless of whose kool-aid it was. > And yeah, I probably just managed to offend the *rest* of CCTalk. Being an equal-opportunity offender :), I'll note that I've seen this phenomenon not only with Linux evangelists but with NetBSD evangelists as well (and probably would have seen it for OpenBSD and FreeBSD too, if I hung out in those circles). I've seen it for qmail evangelists (oddly enough, very much less for other MTAs; I have naught but speculation as to why). I've seen it for "Christian"s (quotes because such people generally aren't very good Christians as I prefer to use the word, in the sense of living Jesus's teachings). I've seen it for twelve-steppers (in my case mostly CoDA, co-dependency being the issue that brought me into contact with twelve-step programs). I'm sure it exists in a whole raft of other areas that either I've not run into or that I can't recall right now. Evangelism - at least, anything that involves in-your-face conversion attempts - is one of the few things I am completely unapologetic about my intolerance towards. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Nov 25 00:48:27 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Found : two TK50 tapes with Microvax II S/W In-Reply-To: <41A5476B.6000605@mdrconsult.com> References: <200411232059.iANKxM20026126@mwave.heeltoe.com> <003101c4d295$a32a8790$0100a8c0@screamer> <41A5476B.6000605@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <200411250650.BAA17906@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> Tape #1, marked "MicroVax II Service Diagnostics", dated 10/6/89. >> Tape #2, marked "VWSDemo.bak, Flight017.bak backup/save sets" > I'll image them and then pass them on if somebody else wants the > originals. > I also have [...] > Al, do you want copies of this stuff? I dunno about Al, but I'd like to get my hands on copies of the bits, whether directly from you or not. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From tomj at wps.com Thu Nov 25 01:52:35 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: <41A50BF2.1090400@compsys.to> References: <20041124162131.53002.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> <010c01c4d246$883efeb0$0b01a8c0@Mike> <200411241858.NAA04712@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <41A50BF2.1090400@compsys.to> Message-ID: re: ethics, and copying of copyrightable stuff: The Grateful Dead have a good idea; they allow copying of their stuff that was taped live, but fro no cost, not even "cost recovery" of media. It encourages trading, and a reasonably bright line for enforcement. I may have details wrong (and I'm not a deadhead though I think they're fine; punk and electronic/techno for me) but the gist is about right. From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Thu Nov 25 02:31:43 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:53 2005 Subject: FYI: identity theft In-Reply-To: <251417BC-3E51-11D9-931B-000A9586BBB0@bluewin.ch> References: <001001c4d257$7f32f450$5b01a8c0@flexpc> <251417BC-3E51-11D9-931B-000A9586BBB0@bluewin.ch> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20041125082740.05cd7c40@pop.freeserve.net> At 19:43 24/11/2004, Jos Dreesen wrote: >>I've also had several people from other parts of >>Europe (I'm in the UK) asking if they can pay >>directly, all I need to do is provide an IBAN for >>my account. I've declined up to know (because I >>have no idea how it works, what scams might lie >>behind it and - most importantly - what the charges >>are and who pays them!) and they've all gone on to >>pay via PayPal. > >IBAN is a very good way of transferring money inside Europe. >EU regulations make it illegal for banks to charge more for IBAN transfers >than for transfers inside a country. >This makes it in fact the cheapest way of transferring money inside Europe. >I do not know how UK not being in the Euro zones affects this though. In the UK, you have to ask your bank for an IBAN number, and it might take some hunting down somebody who knows what you are on about (try phoning their international banking department if you get nowhere) but otherwise it works just fine. At least it has for me receiving money - I've got no idea how to send to one! Rob. From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Nov 25 03:03:21 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Approaches to projects (was: KM11 maintenance module In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 25 Nov 2004 01:13:15 GMT." Message-ID: <200411250903.JAA13000@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Tony Duell said: > What's this love of the ZX81, which I regard as a postively horrible > machine. I'd not rip one apart, though, mainly because there's little of > use to raid from it... > I happen to like Forth (and > RPN in general). I can combine both of those :-) I have a ZX81 that runs Forth[1] from an EPROM. Unfortunately I have no way of reading the eprom to make a copy, and it's a commercial copyrighted product anyway. Perhaps if I could locate the author he'd make it freely available, after all there can't be many Forth fans with ZX81s these days! My ZX81 is in a big box with plug-in cards and a keyswitch keyboard... [1] Skywave multi-tasking windowing Forth. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Nov 25 06:51:39 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Pictures Re: Masscomp computers? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041124221535.009db370@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041124180809.0092e210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124081516.00921910@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124081516.00921910@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124180809.0092e210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124221535.009db370@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1101387099.23671.10.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 22:15 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > OK I just finished posting some pictures of the Masscomp machine that I > took apart. Here they are: Thanks for those! That's very different to our machine - ours is a big tower setup; going from memory about 10" wide, maybe 24" deep and 36" tall. If it weren't an hour's drive away I'd go take a look at it now and see what it has inside... > In no particular order these are: (1) this card that I can't remember > what it is . Not much in the way of large chips on that - given that and the size of the connectors, it suggests some sort of data aquisition again to me, or parallel output to something... > (6) The last card in the system (topmost) is a XMC (hard)disk/floppy/tape > controller > 0xylogic%20431.jpg>. I believe this actually a XYLogics 431 card. Hmm, that looks vaguely like NCR's Mass Storage Controller - quite possibly the same board. I'll have to have a look; I've got an MSC culled from a Tower 400 but it's not to hand at the mo (God knows *why* I've kept it; it's of no use in my Tower 700 as that has a SCSI controller) cheers! Jules From unibus at gmail.com Thu Nov 25 07:37:45 2004 From: unibus at gmail.com (Unibus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: KM11 maintenance module In-Reply-To: <200411231705.iANH4eaX011241@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200411231705.iANH4eaX011241@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: > On Tue, 2004-11-16 at 16:25, Tony Duell wrote: > > > See if you can find the cpu manuals for an 11/70. There are some > > > documentation on the KM11 in those, I seem to remember. > > > > The original KM11 (I was given a pair _after_ making my homebrew > > version..) consists of 2 boards -- IIRC W130 and W131. One contains the > > switches and lamps, the other the driver transistors, etc. The latter > > goes into the backplane slot and had an edge connector on the end to > > connec to the former. > > I've done a version based on Tony's design. I'm about to send the board > out to be fab'd. I've sized it so that it should be able to take the > original overlays too. > > I'll be offering the PCB's (with schematic, BOM, etc) or PCB + parts + > docs for sale once I get the first boards back and debugged. > > The PCBs will be nice with silk screen, solder mask and gold edge > fingers. > > > > > I think I got the schematics in the RK11-C printset, certainly it's > > either there or in the 11/45 prints. > > > > -tony > -- > > TTFN - Guy I'd be interested in a kit for my 11/05. Think the overlay is shown in the Printset so I should be able to do my own ovelay when I find the manuals. Thought the KM-11 was also used on the LA180, been too many years to guarantee that (it could have been the RX01, one or the other). Regards, Garry From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Nov 25 07:58:19 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Masscomp computers? In-Reply-To: <20041125041301.6544946D3@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041125085819.009d4850@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Eeks! You're right. I should have known that but I was tired and wasn't thinking straight. Thanks for pointing that out. joe At 08:13 PM 11/24/04 -0800, you wrote: > >http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/masscomp/unknown.jpg > >is an Ikon DR11 interface >(assuming those two connectors are 40 pins) > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Nov 25 08:17:52 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Pictures Re: Masscomp computers? In-Reply-To: <1101387099.23671.10.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <3.0.6.32.20041124221535.009db370@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124180809.0092e210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124081516.00921910@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124081516.00921910@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124180809.0092e210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041124221535.009db370@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041125091752.009d1590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:51 PM 11/25/04 +0000, you wrote: >On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 22:15 -0500, Joe R. wrote: >> OK I just finished posting some pictures of the Masscomp machine that I >> took apart. Here they are: > >Thanks for those! That's very different to our machine - ours is a big >tower setup; going from memory about 10" wide, maybe 24" deep and 36" >tall. If it weren't an hour's drive away I'd go take a look at it now >and see what it has inside... That sounds like a pedistal system. They also made a table top and rack mount systems but the manual mostly talks about the pedistal systems. > >> In no particular order these are: (1) this card that I can't remember >> what it is . > >Not much in the way of large chips on that - given that and the size of >the connectors, it suggests some sort of data aquisition again to me, or >parallel output to something... > >> (6) The last card in the system (topmost) is a XMC (hard)disk/floppy/tape >> controller >> > 0xylogic%20431.jpg>. I believe this actually a XYLogics 431 card. > >Hmm, that looks vaguely like NCR's Mass Storage Controller - quite >possibly the same board. I'll have to have a look; I've got an MSC >culled from a Tower 400 but it's not to hand at the mo (God knows *why* >I've kept it; it's of no use in my Tower 700 as that has a SCSI >controller) The manual says that there's also a XMD controller for LARGE (ESDI?) hard drives that only controls HDs. It uses an 8031 microcontroller and has a large connector (34 pin?) in the top center of the card and two smaller ones (20 pin?) on each side of it. And also a XMT card that can be used to control up to two Pertec 1/2" tape drives. That card also uses an 8031 and it has two large connectors on the top edge. I'm pretty sure that all three of the cards are XYLogics cards. The interesting thing about them is that they use I/O Parameter Blocks to communicate with them just like the Intel MDSs do. I'm not that familar with the structure of Intel's IOPBs but this manual has a detailed description of ones that these cards use so someone could check them against the Intel description and see if they're the same. If you'll post a picture of your card I'll compare it against the drawings in the manual and see if it matches. > >cheers! > >Jules > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Nov 25 09:03:33 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Pictures Re: Masscomp computers? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041125100333.008ae9a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Jules, Did you see this? Joe At 12:51 PM 11/25/04 +0000, you wrote: >On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 22:15 -0500, Joe R. wrote: >> OK I just finished posting some pictures of the Masscomp machine that I >> took apart. Here they are: > >Thanks for those! That's very different to our machine - ours is a big >tower setup; going from memory about 10" wide, maybe 24" deep and 36" >tall. If it weren't an hour's drive away I'd go take a look at it now >and see what it has inside... That sounds like a pedistal system. They also made a table top and rack mount systems but the manual mostly talks about the pedistal systems. > >> In no particular order these are: (1) this card that I can't remember >> what it is . > >Not much in the way of large chips on that - given that and the size of >the connectors, it suggests some sort of data aquisition again to me, or >parallel output to something... > >> (6) The last card in the system (topmost) is a XMC (hard)disk/floppy/tape >> controller >> > 0xylogic%20431.jpg>. I believe this actually a XYLogics 431 card. > >Hmm, that looks vaguely like NCR's Mass Storage Controller - quite >possibly the same board. I'll have to have a look; I've got an MSC >culled from a Tower 400 but it's not to hand at the mo (God knows *why* >I've kept it; it's of no use in my Tower 700 as that has a SCSI >controller) The manual says that there's also a XMD controller for LARGE (ESDI?) hard drives that only controls HDs. It uses an 8031 microcontroller and has a large connector (34 pin?) in the top center of the card and two smaller ones (20 pin?) on each side of it. And also a XMT card that can be used to control up to two Pertec 1/2" tape drives. That card also uses an 8031 and it has two large connectors on the top edge. I'm pretty sure that all three of the cards are XYLogics cards. The interesting thing about them is that they use I/O Parameter Blocks to communicate with them just like the Intel MDSs do. I'm not that familar with the structure of Intel's IOPBs but this manual has a detailed description of ones that these cards use so someone could check them against the Intel description and see if they're the same. If you'll post a picture of your card I'll compare it against the drawings in the manual and see if it matches. > >cheers! > >Jules > > From GFisher at tristonecapital.com Thu Nov 25 09:15:52 2004 From: GFisher at tristonecapital.com (Gary Fisher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Making CP/M disk images Message-ID: I'm trying to do the same thing with some (downloaded) Teledisk images for an Altos 580 server which has a similar 96tpi floppy with no luck (a plea for help here). My limited understanding is that these drives use double density media and that a standard 1.2 mb drives don't work too well with that (the manuals all say that writing out 360k AKA 40 track disks on a 1.2mb is a bad thing). Did you take the drive in the SB180 and put it in the Compaq, still calling it a 1.2, 360k or even a 720k 3.5? I tried that with a different (SA-465) 96tpi drive jumpered as drive 1 and it seemed to write disks with no reported problems on the Teledisk write. The Altos still didn't like the disk though but that might be a function of the original files (or something else I forgot to do). Gary F. ------Oiginal below edited for brevity.----- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:48:18 -0500 From: "Richard A. Cini" Subject: RE: Making CP/M disk images To: "'Dwight K. Elvey'" , "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Message-ID: <000801c4d288$74daad50$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dwight: Interestingly, Teledisk did skip every other track. These are DSDD disks formatted on the SB180 machine using the "40 track" option. The drive in the SB180 is a 96TPI drive (HD) and the disk on the PC side is a standard 1.2mb. I'll have to see if Teledisk has any options that may address this. As I recall, the number of configurable options was sparse, though. This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Unless otherwise stated, opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the author and are not endorsed by the author's employer. From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Nov 25 09:58:03 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Paper Tape Punch References: <000501c4d22f$070d1410$4a406b43@66067007> <002b01c4d293$a09c4d80$0100a8c0@screamer> Message-ID: <002e01c4d307$8cce5220$06406b43@66067007> I can not find a part number for the interface pictured in the manual. The write-up in the manual says "The interface assembly comprises a circuit board with housing, a shielded cable and a plug. The circuit board plugs into any 9800 series calculator I/O connector. The plug on the other end of the interface cable fits into the rear input connector of the 9884A tape punch." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Shannon" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 8:04 PM Subject: Re: Paper Tape Punch > Adapter for which HP processor? > > For an HP 1000, you need an 8-bit duplex register board, but a 16-bit > duplex register will also work. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Keys" > To: "cctalk@classiccmp" > Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 9:08 AM > Subject: Paper Tape Punch > > >> Finally got my Facit 4070 Paper Tape Punch that I purchased last year >> home last night. I got the punch and a HP 9884A Tape Punch Operating and >> Service Manual and nothing else. Anyone have the adapter with cable for >> this and some HP paper tapes (#9280-0229)? > > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Nov 25 10:38:24 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Pictures Re: Masscomp computers? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041125100333.008ae9a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041125100333.008ae9a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1101400704.23671.25.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-11-25 at 10:03 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > Jules, > > Did you see this? > &rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW#ebayphotohosting> Hmm, now that's interesting. That appears to be a single channel board, and without *that* much silicon on it. Maybe it was offered as an upgrade to earlier Tower owners who had the ST506/tape/floppy board in their systems, so that they could use SCSI tapes and disks. I've not come across one of those critters before... The board in my Tower's a lot bigger, with a pair of 80188 processors and 8MB of cache memory - it's dual channel SCSI, with the internal channel that drives the disks and SCSI tape being single-ended, and the other channel being differential that leads to an external connector. Quite a monster of a board! There's also a large Motorola SC87960RCB IC - I have no idea what that one does; maybe something to do with the Multibus side of things... Looks like that EBay board is 1987; my Tower one is 1988, so there's not a lot in it! [ST506 board] > If you'll post a picture of your card I'll compare it against > the drawings in the manual and see if it matches. Will do - I *think* I know where it is. It's one of those things I grabbed before the Tower 400 it was in hit the trash; that was about ten years ago and I've still got the darn thing :) (and the serial board the was in the machine - I can't remember if that one's a HPSIO or not) cheers, Jules From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Nov 25 10:59:14 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: HP 93788 cards? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041125115914.008afb90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I picked up two HP cards that I think are from a HP 3000 but I can't find anything about them online. They're large cards with the number HP 93788-80041 on them and they have a daughterboard on them that's marked 93788 CII Chipset. Does anyone know what these are? Joe From chobbs at socal.rr.com Thu Nov 25 10:21:52 2004 From: chobbs at socal.rr.com (Charles P. Hobbs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: KIM, SYM, AIM, etc. References: <200411250517.iAP5HVjn017298@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <41A606A0.4040907@socal.rr.com> > Still can't imagine a SYM-1 being worth $900. From $75 to maybe >$150 someplace is more like it. It has little to be note worthy >of that I know of. The KIM is more recognized as a historic >board. I doubt if that person though it was actually worth something >that they'd have thrown it away, regardless of what they said. > Still, for one rounding out their 6502 collection, the SYM-1 >is a nice item to have. >Dwight I sold a couple of Rockwell AIM-65's for about $100 each at VCF, though I didn't really test or know the condition of them. I've seen some of these board computers go for as high as $300 on Ebay, although Ebay prices tend to be higher because of the bidding wars... From chobbs at socal.rr.com Thu Nov 25 10:26:47 2004 From: chobbs at socal.rr.com (Charles P. Hobbs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Happy Thanksgiving :-) (switch to fixed with font) References: <200411250517.iAP5HVjn017298@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <41A607C7.4000804@socal.rr.com> ,+*^^*+___+++_ ,*^^^^ ) _+* ^**+_ _+^^*+_ ( ,+*^ ^ \+_ ) { ) ( ,( ,_+--+--, ^) ^\ { (@) } f ,( ,+-^ __*_*_ ^^\_ ^\ ) {:;-/ (_+*-+^^^^^+*+*<_ _++_)_ ) ) / ( / ( ( ,___ ^*+_+* ) < < \ U _/ ) *--< ) ^\-----++__) ) ) ) ( ) _(^)^^)) ) )\^^^^^))^*+/ / / ( / (_))_^)) ) ) ))^^^^^))^^^)__/ +^^ ( ,/ (^))^)) ) ) ))^^^^^^^))^^) _) *+__+* (_))^) ) ) ))^^^^^^))^^^^^)____*^ \ \_)^)_)) ))^^^^^^^^^^))^^^^) (_ ^\__^^^^^^^^^^^^))^^^^^^^) ^\___ ^\__^^^^^^))^^^^^^^^)\\ ^^^^^\uuu/^^\uuu/^^^^\^\^\^\^\^\^\^\ ___) >____) >___ ^\_\_\_\_\_\_\) ^^^//\\_^^//\\_^ ^(\_\_\_\) ^^^ ^^ ^^^ ^^ From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Thu Nov 25 11:53:40 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: FYI: identity theft In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.0.20041125082740.05cd7c40@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <000301c4d317$b38f2d70$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > In the UK, you have to ask your bank for an IBAN number, and > it might take > some hunting down somebody who knows what you are on about > (try phoning > their international banking department if you get nowhere) > but otherwise it > works just fine. At least it has for me receiving money - > I've got no idea > how to send to one! So does it cost you anything to receive the cash? Any downside? Since it seems so popular in Europe at least, maybe I should start to accept such transfers and save on the Paypal fees? Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Nov 25 11:59:32 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: An Actual On-Topic DILOG question Message-ID: <41A61D84.40506@mdrconsult.com> ;^) There are a DILOG DQ142 and a DQ142 QBus Pertec controllers on eBay right now. I have a PDP11/03 in the 18-bit backplane that seriously needs a storage option. I have a couple of TU80 drives, but only Unibus controllers for those. The questions are: either Dilog board is compatible with both the TU80 and the 18-bit backplane, right? And which is the better choice, the DQ132 or the DQ142? Thanks. Doc From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Nov 25 12:18:58 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: FYI: identity theft In-Reply-To: <000301c4d317$b38f2d70$5b01a8c0@flexpc> References: <6.2.0.14.0.20041125082740.05cd7c40@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041125131858.00a1a100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:53 PM 11/25/04 +0000, you wrote: >> In the UK, you have to ask your bank for an IBAN number, and >> it might take >> some hunting down somebody who knows what you are on about >> (try phoning >> their international banking department if you get nowhere) >> but otherwise it >> works just fine. At least it has for me receiving money - >> I've got no idea >> how to send to one! > >So does it cost you anything to receive the cash? >Any downside? Since it seems so popular in Europe >at least, maybe I should start to accept such >transfers and save on the Paypal fees? And is it available in the US? I sell a lot of stuff to Europe and payment is always a problem. Joe From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Nov 25 12:31:41 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Update on Don Maslin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041125123116.0566d2a8@pc> At 11:57 AM 9/22/2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >I just made contact with Don's wife, Bristol. They're not sure what Don >died of, but he'd had cancer for 18 years and he died a couple days after >entering the hospital after falling ill. >I'd like to enlist the help of some local San Diegans to assist with the >inventory of Don's collection. Any news on this? - John From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Nov 25 12:27:29 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: FYI: identity theft In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041125122115.0566e350@pc> At 04:25 PM 11/23/2004, Gary Fisher wrote: >Kind of a round about way to do credit card fraud, but on the other hand it puts the trail onto the hapless guys who paid for the items on eBay. As I pointed out in my first message, the credit-card-stealing seller hadn't even received payment from the eBay buyers in three of the four cases I found. So he's playing a game - hoping someone will pay faster than the time he needs to grab the money and run and before the credit card owner figures it out. >I hope you went to the eBay forums with your info, I suppose eBay will do nothing to warn anybody (scams never happen on eBay!). I'm looking forward to filing a complaint with local law enforcement, which will allow them to kick out a few subpoenas to request records that eBay / eGold / Yahoo / BestBuy / Staples won't release. It would give IP addresses, maybe other account info, maybe a trail to where the money went. I'm hoping the police will share the details with me, so I can assist in the investigation. >Any idea how your credit card info got to the scammer? No idea. This card was generally used only for business, about half-and-half in-person and online. - John From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 25 12:26:12 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Approaches to projects (was: KM11 maintenance module In-Reply-To: <200411250903.JAA13000@citadel.metropolis.local> from "Stan Barr" at Nov 25, 4 09:03:21 am Message-ID: > I can combine both of those :-) I have a ZX81 that runs Forth[1] from an When I read that, my immediate thought was 'Skywave' :-). I believe they also did versions for other UK home micros (the idea of a BBC version is floating around my brain). > EPROM. Unfortunately I have no way of reading the eprom to make a copy, You mean this Forth doesn't include the C@ and C? words? It's seriously broken if it doesn't! The former is the equivalent of Peek -- it's Character Fetch. It takes an address from the top of the parameter stack and replaces it with the 8 bit contents of that address. The latter is best explained by its definition : C? C@ . ; In other words (sic) it takes an address from the top of stack and prints the 8 bit contents of the location using the current number base. I suspect, therefore you do have a way of reading out that EPROM, although unless you've got a serial interface on your ZX81, it's not going to be a lot of use. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 25 12:32:28 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Paper Tape Punch In-Reply-To: <002e01c4d307$8cce5220$06406b43@66067007> from "Keys" at Nov 25, 4 09:58:03 am Message-ID: > > I can not find a part number for the interface pictured in the manual. The > write-up in the manual says "The interface assembly comprises a circuit > board with housing, a shielded cable and a plug. The circuit board plugs My guess, based on one of the 9800 interfacing manuals, is that it's just a normal 8 bit binary interface module for said calculator with the right calbe and plug. Now I have to try and remember the number for said interface -- it's something like HP11202 or HP12202. Incidentally, I am looking for any spare (as in cheap!) interfaces for this series of machines. I have a couple of 9810s and a 9830 that I'd like to hook up to other devices. If all else fails, I'll make my own as ever... -tony From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Nov 25 12:33:40 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: movies, open source, RMS and linux... In-Reply-To: <41A51566.8010608@mdrconsult.com> References: <200411242202.iAOM2spH022826@mwave.heeltoe.com> <41A50979.5090305@mdrconsult.com> <1101337401.3918.220.camel@fortran> <41A51566.8010608@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041125123253.0566c200@pc> At 05:12 PM 11/24/2004, Doc Shipley wrote: > I mentioned corresponding with RMS on behalf of a LUG here, the University of Texas SIGLinux. RMS was planning a speaking tour and SIGL invited him here. The official FSF position, which was later verified by personal email from Stallman, was that he would be very happy to speak in Austin. > As long as the official name of SIGLinux was changed to include GNU. Having heard the story before, I've always wondered why they didn't simply change the name for a month or two, then change it back. :-) - John From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Nov 25 12:39:16 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: References: <20041124162131.53002.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041125123753.05602388@pc> At 10:48 AM 11/24/2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter wrote: > >> Here's a theoretical question for the group. >> >> What if someone compiled copyrighted data (giving credit to the owners) onto a >> CD, and gave it away for FREE, but made their money by having advertising >> inside the contents -- would that be considered ethical? > >I think it really boils down to a matter of courtesy. Even if you burned >copies to give away to people at no charge, it is still just basic >courtesy to acknowledge those who made the compilation possible. It only >takes 10 seconds to write a simple "thank you". Or why not give the contributors a copy of the CD/DVD? As I posted back on 9/7: I played this game once and made a very big pile of money at it. In the early 90s, I collected 3D models from artists with the understanding that I would put them on a CD and sell it and give them a free copy. I had signed release forms from each artist. I collected more than 500 models, generated a few hundred tileable textures with a Mac program, and sold thousands of CDs at $200 each, and gave away just as many as promotional bundles with my 3D conversion software. This was back in 1992 or so when CDs were relatively uncommon. Arguably, someone can collect public domain info and hold a "collection copyright" on his assembly and arrangement of public domain or abandoned docs. Could someone put his DVD online or give it away and could he justifably complain? Probably. He added value by assembling it. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Nov 25 12:34:37 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: FYI: identity theft In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041125131858.00a1a100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <6.2.0.14.0.20041125082740.05cd7c40@pop.freeserve.net> <3.0.6.32.20041125131858.00a1a100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041125123406.0566bf70@pc> At 12:18 PM 11/25/2004, you wrote: > And is it available in the US? I sell a lot of stuff to Europe and >payment is always a problem. What problems are there with the "international postal money order"? Can't you still get those at the local USPS office? - John From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Thu Nov 25 12:47:34 2004 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: FYI: identity theft In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041125131858.00a1a100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <789EE772-3F12-11D9-931B-000A9586BBB0@bluewin.ch> >> >> So does it cost you anything to receive the cash? At least in the Eurozone it costs the same as domestic transfers. For me, using my wife's dutch account, it is free for send and receive. >> Any downside? Since it seems so popular in Europe >> at least, maybe I should start to accept such >> transfers and save on the Paypal fees? You should look into it. Keep in mind that your accountnumber is part of the IBAN number > > And is it available in the US? I sell a lot of stuff to Europe and > payment is always a problem. > It is Europe only at the moment. Look at http://www.pruefziffernberechnung.de/I/IBAN.shtml for some more info and how to check correctness of IBAN numbers. Jos From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Thu Nov 25 12:54:35 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Possible Trade? HP48G < > HP67 | HP97 Message-ID: <73410D69-3F13-11D9-88EA-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> I have an HP48G with serial cable and User's Guide. I want an HP67 or HP97, - Preferably with quick ref or manual (or both) - Would be nice to have one where the magnetic card drive works (ie de-gummied) but I would be willing to de-gummie it myself if need be (with instructions :^) From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Thu Nov 25 13:02:40 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: FYI: identity theft In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041125131858.00a1a100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000601c4d321$573cf250$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > And is it available in the US? I sell a lot of stuff to Europe and > payment is always a problem. Don't ask me - I didn't know IBAN was available in the UK until recently :-) A quick google finds this guy in the UK willing to accept orders via IBAN. Reading it through suggests that he can accept orders from the US: http://www.lynnemusic.com/how-to-order-iban.html You'd be doing this in reverse, so it may not apply and it may not work. Can't hurt to ask your bank? Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From tpeters at mixcom.com Thu Nov 25 13:23:41 2004 From: tpeters at mixcom.com (Tom Peters) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: An Actual On-Topic DILOG question In-Reply-To: <41A61D84.40506@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041125132115.0a8e4640@localhost> I have a DQ Dilog DQ-100, with an original manual. There's logic diagrams & timing diagrams and etc etc etc. I've offered the Diablo 31 (RK05 emulators) to Al, but he hasn't indicated whether he wants the Q-bus controller or not. If he doesn't and it might be of interest to you, let's talk. At 11:59 AM 11/25/2004 -0600, you wrote: > ;^) > > There are a DILOG DQ142 and a DQ142 QBus Pertec controllers on eBay > right now. I have a PDP11/03 in the 18-bit backplane that seriously > needs a storage option. I have a couple of TU80 drives, but only Unibus > controllers for those. > > The questions are: either Dilog board is compatible with both the TU80 > and the 18-bit backplane, right? And which is the better choice, the > DQ132 or the DQ142? > > Thanks. > > > Doc [Computing]"Excuse me sir, but do you have any user-friendly sales reps?" "Oh you mean consumer-compatible liveware. No, he's off today." --Doonesbury --... ...-- -.. . -. ----. --.- --.- -... tpeters@nospam.mixcom.com (remove "nospam") N9QQB (amateur radio) "HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB ADDRESS http//www.mixweb.com/tpeters 43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square EN53wc WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, Cisco Certified CCNA From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Nov 25 13:20:00 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Approaches to projects (was: KM11 maintenance module In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 25 Nov 2004 18:26:12 GMT." Message-ID: <200411251920.TAA22311@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Tony Duell said: > > I can combine both of those :-) I have a ZX81 that runs Forth[1] from an > > When I read that, my immediate thought was 'Skywave' :-). I believe they > also did versions for other UK home micros (the idea of a BBC version is > floating around my brain). > That's the one... > > EPROM. Unfortunately I have no way of reading the eprom to make a copy, > > You mean this Forth doesn't include the C@ and C? words? It's seriously > broken if it doesn't! The former is the equivalent of Peek -- it's All the normal Forth words including C! and C@ etc are there... It's a fairly full featured Forth, it just runs out of the eprom which replaces the ZX81 one, rather than a program that loads on top of the ZX81 system. Blocks on cassette are a difficult thing to cope with though! It would be nice to make a copy eprom though, just in case. Writing it out to cassette would be possible, but a bit tedious, an eprom burner is the answer I think... At the time it was very impressive to see multiple applications running simlutaneously in (tiled) windows on a ZX81, come the think of it it's still quite a feat. (I have Forth on just about every machine here, from Mac to PDP-11...) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From tpeters at mixcom.com Thu Nov 25 13:46:00 2004 From: tpeters at mixcom.com (Tom Peters) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Original DEC TECO manual In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041125132115.0a8e4640@localhost> References: <41A61D84.40506@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041125132952.0a846380@localhost> I have an original DEC manual for TECO dated February 1980. It's about 150 pages. Does it have any value? I've been un- and under-employed for a year now and things are getting a little tight. If I thought someone would pay something for it, I'd try peddling it. I also have a Heath floppy drive system I built for my LSI-11. I think I used a Shugart 801 or 802???? eight-inch floppy drive in there, in a big plywood box. I have Q-bus controllers for it. I'm thinking of trying to sell off some of that stuff as well. -T Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen. --Sir Winston Churchill --... ...-- -.. . -. ----. --.- --.- -... tpeters@nospam.mixcom.com (remove "nospam") N9QQB (amateur radio) "HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB ADDRESS http//www.mixweb.com/tpeters 43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square EN53wc WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, Cisco Certified CCNA From vcf at siconic.com Thu Nov 25 13:51:35 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Software for Apple I In-Reply-To: <200411242345.PAA15186@floodgap.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > Here's one for you: > > > > > > 10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD!" > > > 20 GOTO 10 > > > > > > > Anybody who contributes will get a copy of the book, of course. > > > > > > Thanks!! > > > :) > > > > Can I have: > > > > 10 GOTO 10 > > > > for the version with screensaver?* > > Wow, that's the first BASIC I've written in about ten years :) > > *I have no idea if the Apple 1 clears the display prior to running a > > program. It probably doesn't... > > Fine, make it > > 10 HOME > 20 GOTO 10 > > Where do I send my mailing address? ;) There was no HOME command in the original Apple-1 BASIC. The screen was not memory-mapped. You would have to print enough carriage returns (16 I believe) to push every line of text off the screen to clear it. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aek at spies.com Thu Nov 25 13:59:43 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: An Actual On-Topic DILOG question Message-ID: <20041125195943.C5DE74665@spies.com> I've offered the Diablo 31 (RK05 emulators) to Al, but he hasn't indicated whether he wants the Q-bus controller or not. -- I would like it. d From vcf at siconic.com Thu Nov 25 14:04:50 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: <20041124234204.RMDM28185.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Dave Dunfield wrote: > As noted above, this is not directed to a particular person ... And I DO > have a great deal of respect for Al and others like him. And no dispute > that these people are preserving important documents. But, anyone who > takes the attitude "only to be distributed by download from my site" is > NOT making them available to EVERYONE - it prevents me from obtaining > much of the larger material (and doc scans tend to be large :-) No > matter how well information is preserved, it is of no benefit if it is > unobtainable. You are looking at it from your own point of view. I'm not going to speak for Al, but I'm sure he would want you to get what you need in whatever way is most convenient for you. Al's gripe was with the person who was making money off of his work and not making even a simple reference to Al for making his "product" possible. Al did not take the attitude that you are projecting. So again, I say show some respect by at least getting your facts straight. > Btw: I do have some of Rich's scans in my Altair section, and I *DID* > contact him for permission, and he *IS* listed in my credits. I even > gave him some scans of docs he was missing during our correspondance. And that took, what, a couple e-mails? No big deal. Since most of Dynacomp's CD comes from, at most, 10 sources, it wouldn't take much effort to at least let the people who created those sources know what he's up to, or in the very least put a note of thanks on the disc. No, he didn't do any of these, so shame on him. > BUT - the choice as to what to do is ultimately Rich's .. He asked our > opinion and I gave him mine. to quote Spock, he is free to "give it all > the consideration it is due". Quoting fictional characters is...scary. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Nov 25 14:25:15 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: KIM, SYM, AIM, etc. In-Reply-To: <41A606A0.4040907@socal.rr.com> References: <200411250517.iAP5HVjn017298@huey.classiccmp.org> <41A606A0.4040907@socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <20041125202514.GA9505@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Nov 25, 2004 at 08:21:52AM -0800, Charles P. Hobbs wrote: > >Still can't imagine a SYM-1 being worth $900. From $75 to maybe > >$150 someplace is more like it. It has little to be note worthy > >of that I know of. The KIM is more recognized as a historic > >board... > I sold a couple of Rockwell AIM-65's for about $100 each at VCF, > though I didn't really test or know the condition of them. For a bare AIM-65 (no chassis or PSU)? Sounds fair. I still have a couple spares that I'm restoring (missing/broken keyswitch on keyboard, missing display board...), so if anyone has spare bits, I might be interested in picking something up after I get home in a few months. I did verify that the 6520 on the display board can be replaced with a Motorola 6821, a part I have a number of spares of. As a result, I was contemplating handwiring at least one display board (I have either a full set or n-1 of the 4-char displays). > I've seen some of these board computers go for as high as $300 on Ebay, > although Ebay prices tend to be higher because of the bidding wars... Indeed. The one model of that class of machine I lack is a KIM-1. The prices I've seen on eBay are enought to put me off most of the time. If I can ever manage to get to a VCF, that might be something in particular that I'd be looking for. Cheers, -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 25-Nov-2004 20:09 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -30.2 F (-34.6 C) Windchill -56.2 F (-49 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 11.1 kts Grid 229 Barometer 691.4 mb (10198. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From vcf at siconic.com Thu Nov 25 14:28:41 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Nov 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > A couple of days ago somebody on this list mentioned they were having > PCBs made for a DEC KM11 (maintenance board) clone based on my design. > And that they intended to sell said PCBs and/or kits. > > Now, for the record, I was never asked if I minded about this. I never > gave permission. To be honest, I _don't_ mind. I prodcued that design > initially to get my own 11/45 running, and shared it with the world in > the hope that it would keep a few more machines going. And if somebody > wants to make PCBs for it, fine, go ahead. I am not going to stop you. > But do you think I should have been asked first? I guess it comes down to how you want to be paid for your work. Some people, like you, are content to remain anonymous perhaps. You enjoy the credit when you receive it, but you don't go seeking it. You are content that what you've done helped humanity in general. Other folks (and I fall into this camp) want to at least receive credit for the work they have done. Who you are when you pass is what you've left for the world. To some people, leaving a legacy is important. (Hopefully, you strive to leave a positive legacy :) Yet other folks want strict control over their work. They will release it under certain conditions, whether that means exchanging money or otherwise. As creators or producers of a work, they are entitled to that. Then there are the folks who think nothing of profiting from work that is not theirs while not even acknowledging the creator/producer. Theirs is a short term and selfish interest. Their only contribution is in getting something into the hands of someone who needed it. Ethics: it's not just a word. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From gordon at gjcp.net Thu Nov 25 14:40:18 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: tracing out schematics In-Reply-To: <1101338321.21758.113.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1101338321.21758.113.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <41A64332.5070805@gjcp.net> Jules Richardson wrote: > I assume that the fused supply to the second board runs something which > takes a while to start up (or needs at least 200V to start working), at > which point it tries to do something that relies on the unfused supply, > and this is causing a problem... Sounds awfy like a crowbar tripping to me... Gordon. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Nov 25 14:44:31 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Update on Don Maslin In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041125123116.0566d2a8@pc> Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Nov 2004, John Foust wrote: > At 11:57 AM 9/22/2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >I just made contact with Don's wife, Bristol. They're not sure what Don > >died of, but he'd had cancer for 18 years and he died a couple days after > >entering the hospital after falling ill. > >I'd like to enlist the help of some local San Diegans to assist with the > >inventory of Don's collection. > > Any news on this? Vernon Wright, a good friend of Don's, is supposed to be handling this. I have no idea where the process is at. He's either very busy or not good at returning e-mails as it takes him a while to respond to inquiries. He did get me a photo and a "remembrance" that I displayed and read at the VCF. But as far as what's happening with Don's OS disk set, I can only have faith that Vernon is taking care of it. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Nov 25 14:49:07 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041125123753.05602388@pc> Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Nov 2004, John Foust wrote: > Arguably, someone can collect public domain info and hold > a "collection copyright" on his assembly and arrangement of > public domain or abandoned docs. Could someone put his DVD > online or give it away and could he justifably complain? > Probably. He added value by assembling it. So as Erik suggested, can we take his 5 volumes, "assemble" them into one DVD, and sell that? :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Nov 25 15:04:47 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041125123753.05602388@pc> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041125150250.0559bc58@pc> At 02:49 PM 11/25/2004, you wrote: >So as Erik suggested, can we take his 5 volumes, "assemble" them into one >DVD, and sell that? :) You could reorganize it. Add more value. Do him one better by giving all the contributors a free copy. Make better descriptions. Showing that the creators get a cut should be a positive selling point. - John From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Thu Nov 25 15:10:30 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000f01c4d333$3320ffd0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > Ethics: it's not just a word. True: it's a place :-) -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Nov 25 15:44:19 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Approaches to projects In-Reply-To: <73fd21134d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> References: <200411250057.QAA03125@clulw009.amd.com> <73fd21134d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <20041125214419.GG9505@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Nov 25, 2004 at 01:26:04AM +0000, Philip Pemberton wrote: > In message <200411250057.QAA03125@clulw009.amd.com> > Aside from being a "better KIM"? ISTR it was basically a KIM with a few > extras (oscilloscope output, a la the Poptronics Scopewriter) added. I don't > think it used the mask-programmed RIOT chips either, unlike the KIM, which > makes it (slightly) easier to fix if something goes wrong. It does not use mask-programmed RIOT chips... one of the reasons I'm happy to have a SYM-1 - no unobtanium ingredients. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 25-Nov-2004 21:39 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -29.7 F (-34.3 C) Windchill -54.7 F (-48.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.4 kts Grid 004 Barometer 691.8 mb (10183. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 25 15:49:49 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Nov 25, 4 12:28:41 pm Message-ID: > > On Thu, 25 Nov 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > > A couple of days ago somebody on this list mentioned they were having > > PCBs made for a DEC KM11 (maintenance board) clone based on my design. > > And that they intended to sell said PCBs and/or kits. > > > > Now, for the record, I was never asked if I minded about this. I never > > gave permission. To be honest, I _don't_ mind. I prodcued that design > > initially to get my own 11/45 running, and shared it with the world in > > the hope that it would keep a few more machines going. And if somebody > > wants to make PCBs for it, fine, go ahead. I am not going to stop you. > > But do you think I should have been asked first? > > I guess it comes down to how you want to be paid for your work. I do not expect to be paid for the hacks I produce... It is the way of the world, at least in the UK. Entertainers get paid (I included sportsmen here, their job seems to be to entertain a subset of the population). Hackers do not get paid. > > Some people, like you, are content to remain anonymous perhaps. You enjoy > the credit when you receive it, but you don't go seeking it. You are > content that what you've done helped humanity in general. However, I would object -- most strongly -- if my name/credits were removed from anything I'd put out for distribution. I would object if somebody tried to claim my work as their own. So far this has never happened, in fact people here and elsewhere have been (IMHO) more than generous in mentioning my name if they used my work. > otherwise. As creators or producers of a work, they are entitled to that. I would agree with that. The thing I have a minor problem with is people who release their work for free download (so that anyone can grab a copy and in general the author doesn't know who has taken it) but who won't allow it to appear on CD-ROMs that are then sold for not that much money. Provided their name/credits remain intact, and that the producer of the CD-ROM doesn't try to prevent it being freely downloaded as well, I can't see the problem. -tony From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Nov 25 15:43:54 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: FYI: identity theft In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041125123406.0566bf70@pc> References: <3.0.6.32.20041125131858.00a1a100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <6.2.0.14.0.20041125082740.05cd7c40@pop.freeserve.net> <3.0.6.32.20041125131858.00a1a100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041125164354.0090a250@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> The problem is that they OWE me money and not vice-versa! Joe At 12:34 PM 11/25/04 -0600, you wrote: >At 12:18 PM 11/25/2004, you wrote: >> And is it available in the US? I sell a lot of stuff to Europe and >>payment is always a problem. > >What problems are there with the "international postal money order"? >Can't you still get those at the local USPS office? > >- John > > From aek at spies.com Thu Nov 25 18:49:45 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: An Actual On-Topic DILOG question Message-ID: <20041126004945.F26DB4709@spies.com> >From memory, isn't a DEC TSV05 (M7196) actually a rebadged Dilog DQ142? The DQ132 was a slightly older design. I have the manual up for that and it was switchable between 18/22 bits. You're probably better off with the 142.. From dave04a at dunfield.com Thu Nov 25 20:59:00 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay Message-ID: <20041126025859.TAIY17232.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> At 12:04 25/11/2004 -0800, you wrote: >On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Dave Dunfield wrote: > >> As noted above, this is not directed to a particular person ... And I DO >> have a great deal of respect for Al and others like him. And no dispute >> that these people are preserving important documents. But, anyone who >> takes the attitude "only to be distributed by download from my site" is >> NOT making them available to EVERYONE - it prevents me from obtaining >> much of the larger material (and doc scans tend to be large :-) No >> matter how well information is preserved, it is of no benefit if it is >> unobtainable. > >You are looking at it from your own point of view. I'm not going to speak >for Al, but I'm sure he would want you to get what you need in whatever >way is most convenient for you. Al's gripe was with the person who was >making money off of his work and not making even a simple reference to Al >for making his "product" possible. Al did not take the attitude that you >are projecting. So again, I say show some respect by at least getting >your facts straight. ... Its you who keeps attaching Al's name to this discussion.... but UNCLE - UNCLE - I hereby APOLOGIZE to any and all involved for having used a bad example - The intent was to show how material being excluded from a CD had prevented me from having easy access to it, with a personal observation that doing so can deviate from often stated goals of making the material available to everyone (please note: I am not suggesting that that any specific person anywhere has or has not made this statement, and if anyone has in fact made this statement, that it may or may not have been inline with the intent of my bad example). Clearly I should not think up examples near the end of a rant. Also, since we are examining this particular bad example so closely, I should also say that it may not have been in this list, it could have been in one of the newsgroups (perhaps comp.os.cpm) - again, my error (at the time it didn't seem an important detail as I was not mentioning names) - so lets amend the orignal statement to "somebody somewhere at some time and for some reason (justified or not), requested that their material be excluded from a DVD that I subsequently obtained, and this means that I don't have ready access to that material due to the fact that I can not download large items from the original sites, and that I would have had access to it if the request to exclude it had not been made." - can we live this this? >> Btw: I do have some of Rich's scans in my Altair section, and I *DID* >> contact him for permission, and he *IS* listed in my credits. I even >> gave him some scans of docs he was missing during our correspondance. > >And that took, what, a couple e-mails? No big deal. Since most of >Dynacomp's CD comes from, at most, 10 sources, it wouldn't take much >effort to at least let the people who created those sources know what he's >up to, or in the very least put a note of thanks on the disc. No, he >didn't do any of these, so shame on him. The difference being that I was using individual document scans which did not have Rich's information attached to them - presumably the material on the CD in the original question does have his complete package, including whatever promotional meterial he wishes to include. IMO (and it is just MO) this is enough of an acknowlegement, as anyone who actually looks at it will see this material. Once again, let me stress that this is MO. >> BUT - the choice as to what to do is ultimately Rich's .. He asked our >> opinion and I gave him mine. to quote Spock, he is free to "give it all >> the consideration it is due". > >Quoting fictional characters is...scary. Yeah, but it's such a GOOD quote (and very useful at times). Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Nov 25 22:43:19 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Software for Apple I In-Reply-To: from Vintage Computer Festival at "Nov 25, 4 11:51:35 am" Message-ID: <200411260443.UAA15436@floodgap.com> > > 10 HOME > > 20 GOTO 10 > > > > Where do I send my mailing address? ;) > > There was no HOME command in the original Apple-1 BASIC. The screen was > not memory-mapped. You would have to print enough carriage returns (16 I > believe) to push every line of text off the screen to clear it. This is almost on-topic now ^_^ Could you do a CALL -151 to achieve the same effect? I think that was the clear screen for Integer BASIC (or maybe it was CALL -868 ... I forget). -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- "I'd love to go out with you, but I need to clean my toilet brush." -------- From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Fri Nov 26 01:53:33 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: FYI: identity theft In-Reply-To: <000301c4d317$b38f2d70$5b01a8c0@flexpc> References: <6.2.0.14.0.20041125082740.05cd7c40@pop.freeserve.net> <000301c4d317$b38f2d70$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20041126075008.02fe0ee8@pop.freeserve.net> At 17:53 25/11/2004, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > In the UK, you have to ask your bank for an IBAN number, and > > it might take > > some hunting down somebody who knows what you are on about > > (try phoning > > their international banking department if you get nowhere) > > but otherwise it > > works just fine. At least it has for me receiving money - > > I've got no idea > > how to send to one! > >So does it cost you anything to receive the cash? >Any downside? Since it seems so popular in Europe >at least, maybe I should start to accept such >transfers and save on the Paypal fees? > >Antonio It's free for me in the UK, but so are domestic transfers. I don't know about the US situation; it's primarily a European initiative at the moment, however, just like the Euro in the UK, you may find your bank can interact with the system even if they haven't told you, just so it's easier for them to operate! Best bet is to ask them! (But speak to international banking dept if your branch declines all knowledge.) Rob. From Innfogra at aol.com Fri Nov 26 01:54:44 2004 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: was identity theft - now international transfers Message-ID: <198.32c040fe.2ed83b44@aol.com> >What problems are there with the "international postal money order"? >Can't you still get those at the local USPS office? > The only International money orders the US Post office will cash are their own and Canadian post. I know because I took a Japanese Postal International Money order once and the US Post wouldn't have anything to do with it. It was legitimate but I ended up having to deposit it to cash it. I do take Canadian Postal Money Orders now. I have used the interbank for international money transfer once and it worked easily. I seem to remember that I had my credit union generate a transaction number along with the interbank number that I sent to the person purchasing the item. A couple of days later the money showed up in my Credit Union Account. However it cost me $10 for the transaction on my side, which I had the customer pay, after all he wanted to pay by wire transfer. Nowadays I take Western Union Wire transfers, Western Union International Money Orders, Bidpay, Paypal or US dollars (Cash) for international purchases. I do not take Certified or Bank Checks, especially for amounts greater than the purchase. And I do not ship until I am certain I have payment. Lately, in posting a HP110 outfit on the HP Museum's for sale site I received three fraudulent offers, and one serious one. Two of the offers were to purchase it with a certified check for a set amount, much more than the item and then have me forward the HP110 and the extra money on to them. The third fraudulent offer was a blatant offer to let me pad the invoice with other goods, name my own price, and get paid by a certified check. I was very disappointed to see that amount of scamming on the bulletin board. All were internationally based scams and easy to recognize, though. Paxton Astoria, Oregon USA From wayne.smith at charter.net Fri Nov 26 04:03:07 2004 From: wayne.smith at charter.net (Wayne Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: VCF 7.0 Pictures In-Reply-To: <200411251800.iAPI03jg020364@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000001c4d39f$218399b0$6501a8c0@Wayne> I have posted a few pictures taken during VCF 7.0 at http://webpages.charter.net/jpepperman/VCF%207.0.html. -W From vcf at siconic.com Fri Nov 26 05:07:16 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:54 2005 Subject: Software for Apple I In-Reply-To: <200411260443.UAA15436@floodgap.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Nov 2004, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > 10 HOME > > > 20 GOTO 10 > > > > > > Where do I send my mailing address? ;) > > > > There was no HOME command in the original Apple-1 BASIC. The screen was > > not memory-mapped. You would have to print enough carriage returns (16 I > > believe) to push every line of text off the screen to clear it. > > This is almost on-topic now ^_^ > > Could you do a CALL -151 to achieve the same effect? I think that was the > clear screen for Integer BASIC (or maybe it was CALL -868 ... I forget). CALL -151 was the command to return to the monitor from BASIC in the Apple ][ integer BASIC. I'm pretty sure location -151 did not map properly on the Apple-1 since the monitor ROM was so completely different between the I and ][. CALL -868 was to clear the screen, but again that was on the Apple ][ which had a much expanded monitor ROM and some tools in ROM. The routine at -868 actually stored ASCII 32 to all the locations in the memory mapped screen, something the Apple-1 didn't have. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From stephane.tsacas at gmail.com Fri Nov 26 05:39:31 2004 From: stephane.tsacas at gmail.com (Stephane Tsacas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: References: <000601c4d285$da106f50$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> <000001c4d293$79e283d0$6e7ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 23:53:11 -0500, Ronald Wayne wrote: > Have you ever tried asking a company like Google to pull your usenet > posts from their archive, because they are violating copyrights? Did > you get a response? To make a long story short: I did this a few > years back and received no response. http://www.chillingeffects.org http://www.chillingeffects.org/notice.cgi -- Stephane Paris, France. From geoffreythomas at onetel.com Fri Nov 26 05:43:57 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.com (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay References: <000f01c4d333$3320ffd0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <030301c4d3ad$631770a0$0200a8c0@geoff> As in : University professor : " What do you know about ethics ? " Student : " Nothing thir , I'm from Thuthex ." ( groan ) :^ } Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Antonio Carlini" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 9:10 PM Subject: RE: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay > > Ethics: it's not just a word. > > True: it's a place :-) > > -- > > --------------- > > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.801 / Virus Database: 544 - Release Date: 24/11/04 From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Nov 26 06:38:29 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: VCF 7.0 Pictures In-Reply-To: <000001c4d39f$218399b0$6501a8c0@Wayne> References: <000001c4d39f$218399b0$6501a8c0@Wayne> Message-ID: <1101472709.25051.1.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-11-26 at 02:03 -0800, Wayne Smith wrote: > http://webpages.charter.net/jpepperman/VCF%207.0.html. The Meccano differential analyser's got to be my favourite - that's awesome! :-) Great pics - cheers! -- "We've had a lot of loonies around this place, but you're the first one who thought the sunrise was made out of stale beer. Now are you going to pick up your flute and leave, or shall I part your hair with this crowbar?" From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Nov 26 07:06:05 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: VCF 7.0 Pictures In-Reply-To: <1101472709.25051.1.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <000001c4d39f$218399b0$6501a8c0@Wayne> <1101472709.25051.1.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <34757.80.242.32.51.1101474365.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> > The Meccano differential analyser's got to be my favourite - that's > awesome! :-) > > Great pics - cheers! It takes geekery to new levels doesn't it! Nice to see a good crowd of people too, as well as that PDP rack :) -- adrian/witchy Binary Dinosaurs owner/curator www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UKs biggest home computer collection? From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri Nov 26 08:40:05 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: VCF 7.0 Pictures In-Reply-To: <34757.80.242.32.51.1101474365.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> References: <000001c4d39f$218399b0$6501a8c0@Wayne> <1101472709.25051.1.camel@weka.localdomain> <34757.80.242.32.51.1101474365.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <20041126144005.GB26606@bos7.spole.gov> On Fri, Nov 26, 2004 at 01:06:05PM -0000, Witchy wrote: > It takes geekery to new levels doesn't it! Nice to see a good crowd of > people too, as well as that PDP rack :) I'd love to put on a display that large and complete, but I could never hope to haul it anywhere that a VCF is likely to be (I have many racks of PDP-11 equipment in Central Ohio, including PDP-11/70s, etc.; but not an 11/45) I was awestruck by the scope of the display... nice job! -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 26-Nov-2004 14:29 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -30 F (-34.5 C) Windchill -47.5 F (-44.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 5.1 kts Grid 042 Barometer 692.5 mb (10159. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From geoffreythomas at onetel.com Fri Nov 26 09:11:31 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.com (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay References: <000f01c4d333$3320ffd0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> <030301c4d3ad$631770a0$0200a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: <001a01c4d3ca$371e3e80$0200a8c0@geoff> Sorry that should ,of course , be "Thuthecth". ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoffrey Thomas" To: ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 11:43 AM Subject: Re: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay > As in : > > University professor : " What do you know about ethics ? " > > Student : " Nothing thir , I'm from Thuthex ." ( groan ) > :^ } > > Geoff. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Antonio Carlini" > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > > Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 9:10 PM > Subject: RE: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay > > > > > Ethics: it's not just a word. > > > > True: it's a place :-) > > > > -- > > > > --------------- > > > > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.801 / Virus Database: 544 - Release Date: 24/11/04 > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.801 / Virus Database: 544 - Release Date: 24/11/04 From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Nov 26 10:31:28 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Found: PDP-11 boot loader ROM's References: <000001c4d39f$218399b0$6501a8c0@Wayne> Message-ID: <000701c4d3d5$62646d20$0100a8c0@screamer> I've just found the following PDP-11 boot loader ROMs: 757A9, 756A9, 755A9, 753A9, 759A9, 760A9, 761A9, 752A9, 758A9 All availble to a new home... From vcf at siconic.com Fri Nov 26 11:30:07 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: VCF 7.0 Pictures In-Reply-To: <20041126144005.GB26606@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Fri, Nov 26, 2004 at 01:06:05PM -0000, Witchy wrote: > > It takes geekery to new levels doesn't it! Nice to see a good crowd of > > people too, as well as that PDP rack :) > > I'd love to put on a display that large and complete, but I could never > hope to haul it anywhere that a VCF is likely to be (I have many racks > of PDP-11 equipment in Central Ohio, including PDP-11/70s, etc.; but not > an 11/45) A VCF Midwest is doable. I just need one of the various people who've contacted me over the years about setting it up to step up to the plate. > I was awestruck by the scope of the display... nice job! The bar has been raised another notch. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From lists at microvax.org Fri Nov 26 11:53:28 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie lists) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: IBANs (Was: FYI: Identity Theft) Message-ID: I just went to my bank (HSBC) in the UK to pay about 39 euros to an IBAN in Germany. Bank fees were 9 pounds sterling! OUCH!! To keep this on-topic, I was paying for a Norsk Data 10 operator control panel. Yum, lamps and toggles. The girlfriend said I should work out a way to drive it, and hang it on the wall :o) alex/melt From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Nov 26 12:18:33 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: 'Wilkes Microsystems' Message-ID: <1101493113.25051.29.camel@weka.localdomain> Anyone know anything about these? The machine in question's a big floor- standing machine, looks to be circa 1980 - grey / pale blue shell, about the size of a PDP 11/84. There's a possibility that the unit's a rebadged Pr1me of some kind, although that may just be due to the fact that some Pr1me manuals were laying nearby more than anything :-) I'm trying to decide whether to say yay or nay based on the one photo, so some info about Wilkes would sure be handy! cheers Jules From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Nov 26 13:46:07 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: IBANs (Was: FYI: Identity Theft) In-Reply-To: meltie lists "IBANs (Was: FYI: Identity Theft)" (Nov 26, 17:53) References: Message-ID: <10411261946.ZM28727@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 26 2004, 17:53, meltie lists wrote: > > I just went to my bank (HSBC) in the UK to pay about 39 euros to an IBAN > in Germany. Bank fees were 9 pounds sterling! OUCH!! Ouch! That's a *lot*. Last time I paid using IBAN it cost a fraction of that (but it was using the University's account; maybe they have different terms). My experience in sending money to the States, for what it's worth, is that bank transfers are most expensive, Western Union wire transfers are slightly better, BidPay is much cheaper (well, less expensive), credit cards (if the seller accepts them directly) are pretty good, PayPal is cheapest, and sending cash is pretty cheap but I'm wary of sending cash by mail, especially airmail. I have accounts with more than one bank, for historical reasons, and one of them offered to create me a Euro account when I complained that their "inexpensive" charges for sending money to Europe were umpteen times what a Eurocheque would have cost. It turned out that made individual transfers cheap but the account maintenance charges more than made up for that unless I had quite a high balance. It seems that the UK is just not the place to be if you want to buy stuff from abroad :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Nov 26 15:27:23 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: was identity theft - now international transfers In-Reply-To: <198.32c040fe.2ed83b44@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041126162723.009098f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:54 AM 11/26/04 -0500, you wrote: >>What problems are there with the "international postal money order"? >>Can't you still get those at the local USPS office? >> >The only International money orders the US Post office will cash are their > own and Canadian post. I know because I took a Japanese Postal International >Money order once and the US Post wouldn't have anything to do with it. It was >legitimate but I ended up having to deposit it to cash it. I do take Canadian >Postal Money Orders now. I've recieved a lot of Canadian money orders and a few other non-US ones. As long as they're drawn on a US bank and in US dollars then they should take them. However the tellers in my bank are rather stupid and they frequently tell me that they can't take them. However when I argue with them and MAKE them go find a supervisor they find that they CAN take them. > >I have used the interbank for international money transfer once and it worked >easily. I seem to remember that I had my credit union generate a transaction >number along with the interbank number that I sent to the person purchasing >the item. A couple of days later the money showed up in my Credit Union Account. >However it cost me $10 for the transaction on my side, which I had the >customer pay, after all he wanted to pay by wire transfer. > >Nowadays I take Western Union Wire transfers, Western Union International >Money Orders, Bidpay, Paypal or US dollars (Cash) for international purchases. I take all of the above except PP. I refuse to disclose my banking info them AND I've heard too many horror stories about them rescinding payments MONTHS later for NO reason. If any of you PP fans want to argue with me about this I'll be happy to referr you to reputable people that this has happened to. It seems like people are forever e-mailing me and harranging me to accept PP. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!!!! > >I do not take Certified or Bank Checks, especially for amounts greater than >the purchase. Yeah, I've heard about that little scam! And I do not ship until I am certain I have payment. I take personal checks from people that I've dealt with previously and so far I've never had a problem. If I do, well that's what the police and jails are for! And it that doesn't work, I have my own methods of dealing with crooks and thieves! > >Lately, in posting a HP110 outfit on the HP Museum's for sale site I received >three fraudulent offers, and one serious one. Two of the offers were to >purchase it with a certified check for a set amount, much more than the item and >then have me forward the HP110 and the extra money on to them. The third >fraudulent offer was a blatant offer to let me pad the invoice with other goods, name >my own price, and get paid by a certified check. > >I was very disappointed to see that amount of scamming on the bulletin board. >All were internationally based scams and easy to recognize, though. I suspect that's what the >>international<< bidders that wanted my banking info were up to. I've refused to give that out and pointed out that they could pay by one of the methods that you listed above and I never heard from them again. Joe > >Paxton >Astoria, Oregon >USA > From trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Fri Nov 26 08:04:42 2004 From: trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (trash3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Found : two TK50 tapes with Microvax II S/W Message-ID: <041126090442.fd8@splab.cas.neu.edu> I have a MVII with a working tk50 and a couple of MV3100s and 4000 systems, all with tz30 drives. I am archiving my 60+ TK50 tapes to better media and I would be glad to add the two tapes to the pile. You go back a ways. I know Neil pretty well and have dealt with him for about 20 years. Back then, Heffron's was a pretty neat used electronics place... I'm in Boston a couple of days a week. joe Heck From aek at spies.com Fri Nov 26 17:31:00 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Found: PDP-11 boot loader ROM's Message-ID: <20041126233100.172D14836@spies.com> Bob, I could use these to fill in a few that are missing from the archive. Spec, 753 759 and 761 If you have a prom programmer, I'd like to get the images of these from you. From unibus at gmail.com Fri Nov 26 17:46:45 2004 From: unibus at gmail.com (Unibus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: How much do you know about computers? In-Reply-To: <200411261801.iAQI05jn027006@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200411261801.iAQI05jn027006@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Got bored, so I wrote up some old iron and current tech questions. Bit difficult for the PC users. http://www.okcupid.com/tests/take?testid=11889246703387700628 From news at computercollector.com Fri Nov 26 21:01:44 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: test, please ignore Message-ID: <20041127030144.43924.qmail@web52804.mail.yahoo.com> ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 600 readers and counting! From james at jdfogg.com Fri Nov 26 22:44:17 2004 From: james at jdfogg.com (james) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: How much do you know about computers? In-Reply-To: References: <200411261801.iAQI05jn027006@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <1101530657.3084.4.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> On Fri, 2004-11-26 at 18:46, Unibus wrote: > Got bored, so I wrote up some old iron and current tech questions. Bit > difficult for the PC users. > > http://www.okcupid.com/tests/take?testid=11889246703387700628 This is too guessable, as I scored a 50 when I probably shouldn't have. I have zero programming skills and it threw me. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri Nov 26 22:59:44 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: How much do you know about computers? In-Reply-To: <1101530657.3084.4.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> References: <200411261801.iAQI05jn027006@huey.classiccmp.org> <1101530657.3084.4.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> Message-ID: <200411270502.AAA15948@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> Got bored, so I wrote up some old iron and current tech questions. >> Bit difficult for the PC users. >> http://www.okcupid.com/tests/take?testid=11889246703387700628 > This is too guessable, as I scored a 50 when I probably shouldn't > have. I have zero programming skills and it threw me. It's also busted. I got through the test and then got to the "two more questions, for statistical purposes". The second says "2. When were you born? You must be 18 to play." and has a dropdown menu with exactly one entry, that being a string containing a single dash. I selected it and hit the Next link and it gave me the page back with a note saying "That doesn't appear to be a valid date. Could you fix it?". Well, no, actually, I can't, since the dropdown list doesn't include any other items. (Short of manually constructing a query including a response not in the list, that is, and I don't care enough to bother doing that - besides, it's not clear whether it wants a year, a year-month-day, or what.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Nov 26 23:28:18 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article Message-ID: Wired is running an article that might be of interest to SGI enthusiasts. http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,65834,00.html They even had a couple links in there that I'm pretty I've never seen before. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Nov 27 00:07:22 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article References: Message-ID: <002801c4d447$658a1050$192d1941@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 12:28 AM Subject: Wired running SGI Article > Wired is running an article that might be of interest to SGI enthusiasts. > http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,65834,00.html > > They even had a couple links in there that I'm pretty I've never seen before. > > Zane > One of these days I will have to check out an old SGI to see what the fuss was about. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Nov 27 00:25:14 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article In-Reply-To: <002801c4d447$658a1050$192d1941@game> References: <002801c4d447$658a1050$192d1941@game> Message-ID: >One of these days I will have to check out an old SGI to see what the fuss >was about. I have two o2's, one of them is a lowly R5000 180Mhz system (the more pathetic of the two 180Mhz models) with 160MB RAM. This system can handle *HEAVY* loads more gracefully than any other system I've use, and X-Windows is unbelievably smooth, even under these heavy loads. The other is an R12000 270Mhz system, and even better :^) What I really want one of these days is a nice Dual Processor Octane with R12000 CPU's. What I'd really like is a nice new Quad Processor R16000A-based Tezro, but there is no way I can afford a brand new SGI Workstation. BTW, I really wish Mac OS X or Linux were half as "smooth" as Irix! I've gotten a "beachball" twice on my dual 2Ghz G5 while typing this email thanks to what I have running in the background. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Nov 27 00:34:44 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article In-Reply-To: References: <002801c4d447$658a1050$192d1941@game> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > BTW, I really wish Mac OS X or Linux were half as "smooth" as Irix! I've > gotten a "beachball" twice on my dual 2Ghz G5 while typing this email thanks > to what I have running in the background. Whaddaya, like, running crypto for the NSA? Global weather prognosis in real-time? What on earth could keep a G5 that busy??? Enquiring minds... Cheers John From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Nov 27 00:36:01 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article References: <002801c4d447$658a1050$192d1941@game> Message-ID: <003501c4d44b$5ce1bcb0$192d1941@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 1:25 AM Subject: Re: Wired running SGI Article > >One of these days I will have to check out an old SGI to see what the fuss > >was about. > > I have two o2's, one of them is a lowly R5000 180Mhz system (the more > pathetic of the two 180Mhz models) with 160MB RAM. This system can > handle *HEAVY* loads more gracefully than any other system I've use, > and X-Windows is unbelievably smooth, even under these heavy loads. > The other is an R12000 270Mhz system, and even better :^) > > What I really want one of these days is a nice Dual Processor Octane > with R12000 CPU's. What I'd really like is a nice new Quad Processor > R16000A-based Tezro, but there is no way I can afford a brand new SGI > Workstation. > > BTW, I really wish Mac OS X or Linux were half as "smooth" as Irix! > I've gotten a "beachball" twice on my dual 2Ghz G5 while typing this > email thanks to what I have running in the background. > > Zane > A few of the 68K Mac loving people I talk to on IRC have been getting into older SGI machines (Origins and older Indy). So is the Dual G5 worth the cash? While I like older 68K Nubus Macs, anything from the PPC generation and beyond never interested me (except for a 7500 PCI powermac I needed to run a Videovision Telecast Setup). From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Nov 27 01:15:30 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article In-Reply-To: References: <002801c4d447$658a1050$192d1941@game> Message-ID: >On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >>BTW, I really wish Mac OS X or Linux were half as "smooth" as Irix! >>I've gotten a "beachball" twice on my dual 2Ghz G5 while typing >>this email thanks to what I have running in the background. > >Whaddaya, like, running crypto for the NSA? Global weather >prognosis in real-time? What on earth could keep a G5 that busy??? > > Enquiring minds... Downloading and exporting a very large Map image using a Java-based viewing application. I'm also running Eudora, Safari, Firefox, and Adobe Photoshop CS. Most of my load problems seem to be largely due to the really sucky Virtual Memory implementation in Mac OS X. Someone mind telling me why on earth with 1.5GB RAM I'm using 4GB of VM just by logging in? Earlier today my VM usage was up over 10GB! I think the "beachball" can almost always, if not always, be blamed on something swapping in or out of memory. Having said that, I don't have much trouble running my G5 at 100% load on both CPU's. I have several very CPU intensive apps that I use that make very efficient use of the Dual Processors. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Nov 27 01:27:06 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article In-Reply-To: <003501c4d44b$5ce1bcb0$192d1941@game> References: <002801c4d447$658a1050$192d1941@game> <003501c4d44b$5ce1bcb0$192d1941@game> Message-ID: >A few of the 68K Mac loving people I talk to on IRC have been getting into >older SGI machines (Origins and older Indy). So is the Dual G5 worth the >cash? While I like older 68K Nubus Macs, anything from the PPC generation >and beyond never interested me (except for a 7500 PCI powermac I needed to >run a Videovision Telecast Setup). Take a look at the design and architecture of the Dual CPU G5 (the single 1.8Ghz model they just released is a travesty as the FSB only runs at 600Mhz, rather than the 900Mhz it should). The only computer I can compare it to is the SGI Octane. I've only been running Mac OS X for the last year and a half as my primary OS. My G4/450 AGP is one of the originals that shipped with a special G4 version of Mac OS 8.6, and iTunes is the only reason I upgraded to 9. It wasn't until 10.2 that I considered Mac OS X usable (I tested every version). What really impressed me was Safari, as it made it so that my G4/450 was fast enough to surf on once again. Personally I think Mac OS X still has a ways to go (see my last email for my complaints about the VM subsystem), but it's got a Unix Layer, a usable GUI, a filesystem browser I've become fanatical about :^), and more importantly it runs the Adobe Apps I need, and has professional video and audio editing applications. While I'm running the latest version of MS Office, I'm not sure if that's a plus or a minus :^) Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Nov 27 01:43:34 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article In-Reply-To: References: <002801c4d447$658a1050$192d1941@game> Message-ID: <41A83026.4020003@mdrconsult.com> Zane H. Healy wrote: > I have two o2's, one of them is a lowly R5000 180Mhz system (the more > pathetic of the two 180Mhz models) with 160MB RAM. This system can > handle *HEAVY* loads more gracefully than any other system I've use, and > X-Windows is unbelievably smooth, even under these heavy loads. The > other is an R12000 270Mhz system, and even better :^) That guy has a couple more 400MHz processors up for grabs on eBay. > BTW, I really wish Mac OS X or Linux were half as "smooth" as Irix! I've > gotten a "beachball" twice on my dual 2Ghz G5 while typing this email > thanks to what I have running in the background. Got your SIMH instanced niced? Doc From spectre at floodgap.com Sat Nov 27 02:01:28 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at "Nov 26, 4 11:15:30 pm" Message-ID: <200411270801.AAA15582@floodgap.com> > Most of my load problems seem to be largely due to the really sucky > Virtual Memory implementation in Mac OS X. Someone mind telling me > why on earth with 1.5GB RAM I'm using 4GB of VM just by logging in? > Earlier today my VM usage was up over 10GB! I think the "beachball" > can almost always, if not always, be blamed on something swapping in > or out of memory. That doesn't seem right. On my dual G4 running 10.2.8 with 2GB RAM, I get hardly any pageouts at all running multiple apps at once (I have a performance monitor running in the menu bar). Where are you getting the VM figure from? -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- ACTUAL CLASSIFIED AD: Parachute, used once, never opened, small stain. $100 From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Nov 27 02:03:21 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article In-Reply-To: <200411270801.AAA15582@floodgap.com> References: <200411270801.AAA15582@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <41A834C9.2050900@mdrconsult.com> Cameron Kaiser wrote: >>Most of my load problems seem to be largely due to the really sucky >>Virtual Memory implementation in Mac OS X. Someone mind telling me >>why on earth with 1.5GB RAM I'm using 4GB of VM just by logging in? >>Earlier today my VM usage was up over 10GB! I think the "beachball" >>can almost always, if not always, be blamed on something swapping in >>or out of memory. > > > That doesn't seem right. On my dual G4 running 10.2.8 with 2GB RAM, I get > hardly any pageouts at all running multiple apps at once (I have a > performance monitor running in the menu bar). Where are you getting the > VM figure from? I'm betting on that Java app he mentioned. ;) I've seen very very few Java anythings that didn't suck memory into oblivion. My DP G5 only has a gig-o'RAM, and I almost never page out. 'Course, I almost never open Office X: either. 8-) Doc From chenmel at earthlink.net Sat Nov 27 02:09:10 2004 From: chenmel at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 21:49:49 +0000 (GMT), you wrote: >> >> On Thu, 25 Nov 2004, Tony Duell wrote: >> >> > A couple of days ago somebody on this list mentioned they were having >> > PCBs made for a DEC KM11 (maintenance board) clone based on my design. >> > And that they intended to sell said PCBs and/or kits. >> > >> > Now, for the record, I was never asked if I minded about this. I never >> > gave permission. To be honest, I _don't_ mind. I prodcued that design >> > initially to get my own 11/45 running, and shared it with the world in >> > the hope that it would keep a few more machines going. And if somebody >> > wants to make PCBs for it, fine, go ahead. I am not going to stop you. >> > But do you think I should have been asked first? >> >> I guess it comes down to how you want to be paid for your work. > >I do not expect to be paid for the hacks I produce... It is the way of >the world, at least in the UK. Entertainers get paid (I included >sportsmen here, their job seems to be to entertain a subset of the >population). Hackers do not get paid. > >> >> Some people, like you, are content to remain anonymous perhaps. You enjoy >> the credit when you receive it, but you don't go seeking it. You are >> content that what you've done helped humanity in general. > >However, I would object -- most strongly -- if my name/credits were >removed from anything I'd put out for distribution. I would object if >somebody tried to claim my work as their own. So far this has never >happened, in fact people here and elsewhere have been (IMHO) more than >generous in mentioning my name if they used my work. > >> otherwise. As creators or producers of a work, they are entitled to that. > >I would agree with that. The thing I have a minor problem with is people >who release their work for free download (so that anyone can grab a copy >and in general the author doesn't know who has taken it) but who won't >allow it to appear on CD-ROMs that are then sold for not that much money. >Provided their name/credits remain intact, and that the producer of the >CD-ROM doesn't try to prevent it being freely downloaded as well, I can't >see the problem. > >-tony An interesting point that can be made is that people who put a bunch of info and stuff on CDs and distribute them to others cut down on the bandwidth expense of distributing that info around. Large popular web and FTP sites can cost a lot to keep going. So a positive way of looking at it is that the CD 'publisher' is saving the web/ftp site 'publisher' some money. And this can be strongly the case, if it keeps some folks from mirroring a whole CD-size bunch of stuff for their personal use. There is a lot of 'classic' MS-DOS software that wouldn't even still exist in an array of versions, etc. if not for those 'dirty bastard' shareware CD publishers who a lot of people grumbled about back in the days of the BBSes. I believe there's even a big site or two online that share out some of those old CDs. I'm certainly glad I've got a collection of them myself. Sometimes it's handy being able to dig out the 1990 Simtelnet archive, or a PC-SIG CD or what-not. From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Nov 27 02:19:42 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41A8389E.7030909@mdrconsult.com> Scott Stevens wrote: > On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 21:49:49 +0000 (GMT), you wrote: > There is a lot of 'classic' MS-DOS software that wouldn't even still > exist in an array of versions, etc. if not for those 'dirty bastard' > shareware CD publishers who a lot of people grumbled about back in the > days of the BBSes. I believe there's even a big site or two online > that share out some of those old CDs. I'm certainly glad I've got a > collection of them myself. Sometimes it's handy being able to dig out > the 1990 Simtelnet archive, or a PC-SIG CD or what-not. If you have links to those share sites I'd be very interested. Doc From chenmel at earthlink.net Sat Nov 27 02:43:50 2004 From: chenmel at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Info needed- Intel 8024A Multibus SBC Message-ID: Hello all, I recently picked up a couple of Intel 8085-based Multibus processor boards. These are branded Intel and are marked 8024A. They are NOT the 80/24 board, which I have been able to find info for. Judging from datecodes, they are aprox. 1990 in age. They have a Microdesigins, Inc. mezzanine card plugged into them called uDS-221 Multifunction Multimodule which adds serial I/O, battery backed SRAM, and a real time clock function. I am looking for info to get these boards up and running. Seem like nice Intel processor cards. Here are some pix of the cards (taken and uploaded halfway through composing this message): The 8024a board alone: http://sasteven.multics.org/8024a.jpg The board with RTC mezzanine card plugged in: http://sasteven.multics.org/8024a_both.jpg The RTC mezzanine card alone: http://sasteven.multics.org/8024a_RTC.jpg Any info would be greatly appreciated. These three photos are hereby granted to the public domain. (use them as you wish) Scott From gordon at gjcp.net Sat Nov 27 04:59:43 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Greenbar paper Message-ID: <41A85E1F.1010000@gjcp.net> I apologise if this question has been done to death, but is there anywhere in the UK I can get 14 7/8" greenbar paper? Gordon. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Nov 27 06:50:04 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "Re: Wired running SGI Article" (Nov 26, 22:25) References: <002801c4d447$658a1050$192d1941@game> Message-ID: <10411271250.ZM29479@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 26 2004, 22:25, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >One of these days I will have to check out an old SGI to see what the fuss > >was about. > > I have two o2's, one of them is a lowly R5000 180Mhz system (the more > pathetic of the two 180Mhz models) with 160MB RAM. This system can > handle *HEAVY* loads more gracefully than any other system I've use, > and X-Windows is unbelievably smooth, even under these heavy loads. > The other is an R12000 270Mhz system, and even better :^) I have three Indigos (left out of six), of which one is an R4K with the full Elan graphics, and one has the "Song and Dance Machine" graphics board; six Indys ranging from an early 100MHz R4000PC to a 150MHz R5KSC; two O2s, one of which is a 180MHz R5K, the other being an R10K with the audio/video unit; and a 16-processor x 180MHz R10K Origin2000. The O2K is currently split into two units, one at home (with all the extra bits'n'bobs) and one on loan to a research unit at the University. It has no graphics of its own, but even running X over the network, it's nice :-) I've been using SGIs since 1994, and my R5K Indy is the one I originally bought secondhand in 1995 for UKP2200. Then, it was a 133MHz R4600SC with 64MB RAM, a 1GB disk and 8-bit graphics. It's been upgraded a few times and now has 24-bit graphics (see my friend's page at http://www.jfc.org.uk/documents/indy_gfx.html and you'll understand why two of my Indys have crippled graphics cards), 256MB RAM, a lot more disk space, and a few extras. It still runs 24/7, acts as my main desktop machine, and provides NFS and Samba file services, print services, SMTP, IMAP and SpamAssassin, and a few minor things, for the rest of the machines on my home net. It could do with being a bit faster, but it's doing very well for a ten-year-old machine. > What I really want one of these days is a nice Dual Processor Octane > with R12000 CPU's. Have you heard one? Have you got a pair of comfortable ear defenders? Have you seen the articles on futuretech about modifying an R5K2 O2 for a (much) faster processor? > What I'd really like is a nice new Quad Processor > R16000A-based Tezro, but there is no way I can afford a brand new SGI > Workstation. Me neither, unfortunately :-( And work have stopped buying/suuporting SGI :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jrice54 at vzavenue.net Sat Nov 27 08:02:22 2004 From: jrice54 at vzavenue.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article In-Reply-To: References: <002801c4d447$658a1050$192d1941@game> Message-ID: <41A888EE.2010508@vzavenue.net> Zane H. Healy wrote: >> One of these days I will have to check out an old SGI to see what the >> fuss >> was about. > > > I have two o2's, one of them is a lowly R5000 180Mhz system (the more > pathetic of the two 180Mhz models) with 160MB RAM. This system can > handle *HEAVY* loads more gracefully than any other system I've use, > and X-Windows is unbelievably smooth, even under these heavy loads. > The other is an R12000 270Mhz system, and even better :^) > > I've got eight Indigo's five of which are R4400 three are R4000 and one is a R3000. Three have full Elan graphics, two have Song and Dance boards with Personal Video add-on boards and one Elan has a Galileo board. I have three O2's (2 R5K, 1 R10K), an Octane R12K, two Indigo2 High Impact's, an R4400 Indy, an Origin 200 quad 180 for a web server and a Visual Workstation 320 dual P3-600 (the bastard child of the family). I'm looking for a dual Octane2 and a R5000 Indy. My favorite workstations are the Sgi's and the NeXT's. I looked up original list prices the other day. With all the accessories, monitors and upgrades, I own over a million and a half of Sgi equipment (at MSRP). James -- www.blackcube.org - The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Nov 27 08:05:11 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Info needed- Intel 8024A Multibus SBC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041127090511.0097aa50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:43 AM 11/27/04 -0500, you wrote: >Hello all, > >I recently picked up a couple of Intel 8085-based Multibus processor >boards. These are branded Intel and are marked 8024A. They are NOT >the 80/24 board, which I have been able to find info for. IIRC the 80/24 is upwards compatible with the 80/20 and 80/20-4. I have the last two on my website but never got around to addign the 80/24. The 80/24 has a 8085A-2 CPU that operates at 4.8 or 2.4 KHz, It has 8K of static RAM and socklets for up to 32K or PROM, 48 programmble I/O lines with interchangeable drivers/terminators, programmble async o sync RS-232 serial interface, two Multiomode sockets, two programmable 16 BCD or binary timers/coujnters and can act as a controller in a multiple controller system. I MAY have the manual for it. I'll try to take a look when I can. > >Judging from datecodes, they are aprox. 1990 in age. They have a >Microdesigins, Inc. mezzanine card plugged into them called uDS-221 >Multifunction Multimodule which adds serial I/O, battery backed SRAM, >and a real time clock function. Never seen the Microdesigns RTC boards but I have bunch from Linear Systems and I have the manuals :-) > >I am looking for info to get these boards up and running. Seem like >nice Intel processor cards. They are but they have aLOT of jumpers that have to be properly set to get them working. > >Here are some pix of the cards (taken and uploaded halfway through >composing this message): > >The 8024a board alone: >http://sasteven.multics.org/8024a.jpg > >The board with RTC mezzanine card plugged in: >http://sasteven.multics.org/8024a_both.jpg > >The RTC mezzanine card alone: >http://sasteven.multics.org/8024a_RTC.jpg > >Any info would be greatly appreciated. These three photos are hereby >granted to the public domain. (use them as you wish) Great. I'll add them to my Multibus page. I don't have any Microdesigns boards or the 80/24 up there yet. Joe > >Scott > > > From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sat Nov 27 08:52:01 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Greenbar paper In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 27 Nov 2004 10:59:43 GMT." <41A85E1F.1010000@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <200411271452.OAA12179@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Gordon JC Pearce said: > I apologise if this question has been done to death, but is there > anywhere in the UK I can get 14 7/8" greenbar paper? A little whie back I got some narrower music ruled stuff from: http://ukofficedirect.opnet.co.uk try them. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From wacarder at usit.net Sat Nov 27 10:51:20 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Old Unibus PDP-11 items needed Message-ID: Hello all, I am looking for the following old PDP-11 unibus modules: * M7237 - Stack limit register for PDP-11/35 and 11/40 * M7891 - MOS memory modules, preferably 64K or 128K I have some items that I would be willing to trade. Among these are some 16 sector RK05 packs and some 11/34 CPU boards and other odds and ends. Thanks, Ashley From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Nov 27 10:17:17 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article In-Reply-To: <10411271250.ZM29479@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <002801c4d447$658a1050$192d1941@game> <10411271250.ZM29479@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20041127171717.6e85c06b.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 12:50:04 GMT Pete Turnbull wrote: > I have three Indigos (left out of six), Dead PSUs? At the Unix-AG we had six Indigos. Only one is alive. The other machines died the suden PSU death. At home I have two Personal Iris (a 4D30 and a loaded 4D35), A R4k with the simple LG1 framebuffer and a R3k Indigo without GFX. A R4k4-150 Indy, a R4k4-200 Extreme Indogo2, a R10k-195 Impact Indigo2 (the machine I am sitting in front of right now) and an Octane. (R12k-300, ESSI + ESI dual head, 2 GB RAM, PCI card cage with additional SCSI and FDDI, total of 36 GB disk, CD-RW, DLT) The Octane is my main machine. I am lusting for faster CPUs, now that R12k-400 is coming into the sub 100,-EUR area... Dual CPU would be even better but is verry expensive. And VPro V6 GFX is coming down in price too. > and a 16-processor x 180MHz R10K Origin2000. A Origin2000 is nice, but I would prefere an Onyx2000. ;-) > > What I really want one of these days is a nice Dual Processor Octane > > with R12000 CPU's. > Have you heard one? Have you got a pair of comfortable ear defenders? He. I have an extra machine room and run extension cables through the wall. So I don't care about noise. :-) > Have you seen the articles on futuretech about modifying an R5K2 O2 > for a (much) faster processor? That is nice. But keep in mind that the O2 is a bit limited. Its UMA architecture steals memory bandwith from the CPU and doesn't like the R1[0246]k CPUs. Also the GFX is specialized on video stuff. The O2 will be _very_ slow for 3D stuff. So it depends on your particular needs if you can go with an O2 or if you should look for an Octane. > > What I'd really like is a nice new Quad Processor > > R16000A-based Tezro, but there is no way I can afford a brand new > > SGI Workstation. > Me neither, unfortunately :-( Ahh, yes, hmmm, Tezro. > And work have stopped buying/suuporting SGI :-( And SGI is going to kill IRIX / MIPS for Linux / Itanium. (I have to admit I would take a nice PRISM for free, ignoring its Intel CPU. ;-) ) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Nov 27 11:17:42 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article In-Reply-To: <41A834C9.2050900@mdrconsult.com> References: <200411270801.AAA15582@floodgap.com> <41A834C9.2050900@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: Cameron Kaiser wrote: >> Zane Wrote: >>>Most of my load problems seem to be largely due to the really >>>sucky Virtual Memory implementation in Mac OS X. Someone mind >>>telling me why on earth with 1.5GB RAM I'm using 4GB of VM just by >>>logging in? Earlier today my VM usage was up over 10GB! I think >>>the "beachball" can almost always, if not always, be blamed on >>>something swapping in or out of memory. >> >> >>That doesn't seem right. On my dual G4 running 10.2.8 with 2GB RAM, I get >>hardly any pageouts at all running multiple apps at once (I have a >>performance monitor running in the menu bar). Where are you getting the >>VM figure from? "Activity Monitor" and "top" both report that. > I'm betting on that Java app he mentioned. ;) > > I've seen very very few Java anythings that didn't suck memory >into oblivion. The Java app was why it got up that high. I made the mistake of trying to kick the Java app off using Safari. That put it into some sort of loop where it would attempt to start and fail. > My DP G5 only has a gig-o'RAM, and I almost never page out. > > 'Course, I almost never open Office X: either. 8-) How many users do you have? Both my wife and I are always logged in, though all she runs normally is Safari and MS Entourage. I normally have Eudora, Safari, MS Word (originally X, now 2004), iTunes, X-Windows, and Terminal.app running. Oh, and I just started running nfsd on the system which has some definite overhead. I normally run with only about 15MB of my 1.5GB free. Right now my VM size is 7.21GB. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Nov 27 11:27:26 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article In-Reply-To: <10411271250.ZM29479@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <002801c4d447$658a1050$192d1941@game> <10411271250.ZM29479@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: > > What I really want one of these days is a nice Dual Processor Octane >> with R12000 CPU's. > >Have you heard one? Have you got a pair of comfortable ear defenders? > Have you seen the articles on futuretech about modifying an R5K2 O2 >for a (much) faster processor? No, but I'm running a very noisy Sparc 5, and my VMS system has a pair of Andataco disk boxs (each with 3 18GB 10,000RPM drives). Worse, this is in the dining room, and they run 24x7. The Octane would normally only be running when I'm using it. Still this is one of the reasons I've not gotten an Octane yet, the others being cost and cost of shipping. I'm looking at ways to have a quieter computing environment, so have been considering replacing the disk boxes with one or two EIDE drives hooked up via IDE-to-SCSI converters (probably one for data, one to back that data up to). If I do that I'll probably also replace the Sparc with a Mini-ITX system I have that is virtually silent. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From james at jdfogg.com Sat Nov 27 11:57:24 2004 From: james at jdfogg.com (james) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Santa, for Christmas I would like Message-ID: <1101578244.2588.11.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> Something blue and white and it says Data General on the front. If it says MV it would be even nicer. Does anyone see these anymore? My brother was one of the developers of AOS/VS and I would really like to restore one. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Nov 27 12:41:59 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: TU80 error 65? Message-ID: <1101580919.26650.1.camel@weka.localdomain> Anyone happen to know what error code 65 means on the display of a TU80? According to the technical docs we have, it doesn't exist - they list as far as 61, then skip to 70 - grrr! cheers Jules From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Nov 27 12:52:42 2004 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Info needed- Intel 8024A Multibus SBC Message-ID: I looked in my intel 1990 book and it looks just like the ISBC 80/24A card in the book with a 8085-2 processor and ISBX connectors for the Mezz card. Normally the card has edge card connectors on top. It looks like someone soldered header connectors to the edgecard ones. I just got an Intel 80-10 rackmount chassis with a 80/10 processor (8080 chip), a National Semiconductor 2 port memory card, an analog devices RTI 1200 and an intel SBC-108 combination mem & I/O expansion. Looks like it needs some cleaning to get it fired up. Paxton Astoria From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Nov 27 12:53:08 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article In-Reply-To: <10411271250.ZM29479@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <002801c4d447$658a1050$192d1941@game> <10411271250.ZM29479@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <1101581588.26590.8.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sat, 2004-11-27 at 12:50 +0000, Pete Turnbull wrote: > and a 16-processor x 180MHz R10K Origin2000. I thought you only had 8 in that thing! :-) I'm thinking our R5K Indy with the 24bit board might be useful as a front-end for some ray tracing exhibit - I think it's the only 'old' machine we have with 24 bit colour. We've just got that machine, a pair of R4K Indys (one with a duff CPU so spares only), the Webforce box, a pair of Indigos, and the 4D/25. The latter three still only have one keyboard to share between them though :-( It'd be nice to find an O200 or O2000 someday! > The O2K is currently split into two units, one at home (with all the > extra bits'n'bobs) and one on loan to a research unit at the > University. Aha! :) > And work have stopped buying/suuporting SGI :-( does that mean you'll be clearing them out of all things SGI? ;-) cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Nov 27 13:02:55 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Apollos again - and an HP2115A Message-ID: <1101582175.26650.19.camel@weka.localdomain> rah! Rummaging through the piles of HP stuff today on the offchance that there were any Apollo bits paid off. Unearthed four DN3000 series machines in a box complete with three mice and Domain keyboards - that explains where the stray Domain keyboard I found the other week must have come from! Two of the machines are (strangely) missing fronts, and one's just badged as a 3000 whilst the other is a 3010. All appear to have disks (hopefully they have all the necessary boards too). I'll have access to a van tomorrow so I'll shift them up to the museum and take a look inside... No sign of manuals or install media yet, but I'm only about a third of the way through the pile. Also, what the heck's an HP 2115A? Found one earlier all nicely boxed and wrapped up, plus possibly a second one (it's too buried under more modern HP stuff to get to it yet!). Looks like a rather nice machine! Perfect condition too - I'll take that up to the museum tomorrow too so it's all nice and cosy :) cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Nov 27 13:10:34 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Masscomp computers? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041124235346.009d1b80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <41A505BE.7070004@tds.net> <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200411241153.44375.kenziem@sympatico.ca> <41A505BE.7070004@tds.net> <3.0.6.32.20041124235346.009d1b80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1101582634.26590.27.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 23:53 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > Mine has a sticker on the back but the model number on it is totally > meaningless. I decided that it's a MC5600 based on the number of CPUs and > number of card slots and the physical description of the machine. FWIW this > one is a rack mount version and there's almost no mention of it in the > manuals except in the installation manual. > Right, I had about 5 minutes to look at our Masscomp earlier... hopefully will have more time tomorrow. It's got a Micropolis 8" hard disk in the base, which is something (not much use without given we have no install media for it!). Also a QIC tape drive and a floppy drive at the front. Cards labelled on the edges as follows: FPP MEM2 APU MEM MPU GPX GPM DSD No Ethernet board unfortunately. FPP is presumably a floating point board? No idea about APU. DSD I'm guessing does the floppy/tape/hard drive? I haven't tried/bothered pulling boards yet. I still need to find the keyboard / mouse for it before I can justify spending any time trying to get it running, of course (anyone have an image of what the keyboard and mouse look like so I know what to look for?) cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Nov 27 13:52:39 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:55 2005 Subject: Apollos again - and an HP2115A In-Reply-To: <1101582175.26650.19.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1101582175.26650.19.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1101585159.26590.29.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sat, 2004-11-27 at 19:02 +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > Also, what the heck's an HP 2115A? never mind - found the manual on bitsavers :-) From lbickley at bickleywest.com Sat Nov 27 15:01:09 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article In-Reply-To: <41A888EE.2010508@vzavenue.net> References: <41A888EE.2010508@vzavenue.net> Message-ID: <200411271301.09760.lbickley@bickleywest.com> > Zane H. Healy wrote: > One of these days I will have to check out an old SGI to see what the > fuss was about. Of all of the systems I have - including DEC PDP-8 and 11, VAX, NeXT, Amiga, Apple, S100 systems, HP, etc. - SGI is my hands-down favorite. Perhaps that's because I love graphics and SGI simply does it best. I always have tried to collect/restore those systems with the best graphics and video options... In my SGI collection I have: Qty. Description 1 "Personal IRIS" 4D25 with Turbo Graphics 4 "Indigo" with Elan Graphics 3 "Indy" - one with Indy Video, one with Indy Cosmo Compress Video 2 "Indigo2" R10K 195MHz with Maximum Impact Graphics 1 "O2" R5K 200MHz with Video and Presenter options 1 "Octane" with Dual R10K 195MHz Processors, Video Compress option 1 "IRIS Crimson" 100MHz R4000 with Reality Engine Graphics 1 "Onyx" with four R10K 195MHz Processors with Reality Engine 2 Graphics 1 "Onyx" with four R10K 195MHz Processors with Infinite Reality Graphics, Sirius Video, ASO Audio, FDDI and Multi Channel Option 3 "Origin 200" Dual 195MHz Processors (Two "tied" as NUMA Cluster) All of the above are restored and running an appropriate version of IRIX. NOTE: I'm looking for an Origin GIGAchannel Expansion Box and the associated XIO Interface and cables for an Origin 200. If someone on the list has these items available, please contact me off list. Cheers, Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Nov 27 15:02:21 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: Apollos again - and an HP2115A References: <1101582175.26650.19.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <001501c4d4c4$64a6fb80$0100a8c0@screamer> The HP 2115 is a rather rare 16-bit minicomputer with 8K of core memory. I have a number of apollos, including some working units. I'd be very happy to trade you apollo gear for the 2115! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jules Richardson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 2:02 PM Subject: Apollos again - and an HP2115A > > rah! Rummaging through the piles of HP stuff today on the offchance that > there were any Apollo bits paid off. Unearthed four DN3000 series > machines in a box complete with three mice and Domain keyboards - that > explains where the stray Domain keyboard I found the other week must > have come from! > > Two of the machines are (strangely) missing fronts, and one's just > badged as a 3000 whilst the other is a 3010. All appear to have disks > (hopefully they have all the necessary boards too). I'll have access to > a van tomorrow so I'll shift them up to the museum and take a look > inside... > > No sign of manuals or install media yet, but I'm only about a third of > the way through the pile. > > Also, what the heck's an HP 2115A? Found one earlier all nicely boxed > and wrapped up, plus possibly a second one (it's too buried under more > modern HP stuff to get to it yet!). Looks like a rather nice machine! > Perfect condition too - I'll take that up to the museum tomorrow too so > it's all nice and cosy :) > > cheers > > Jules > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Nov 27 15:13:35 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: Traling-Edge Message-ID: <41A8EDFF.70606@mdrconsult.com> www.trailing-edge.com has been down for 2 Days. Not that I desperately need anything from there, but it's unusual. Has anybody heard from Tim Shoppa? Doc From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Sat Nov 27 15:16:22 2004 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: Who needs a Profile or Widget harddisk ? Message-ID: <9661CB5E-40B9-11D9-931B-000A9586BBB0@bluewin.ch> Not that I have any spare ones, but look at this site for a description of a IDE to Profile/widget translator. http://john.ccac.rwth-aachen.de:8000/patrick/idefile.htm The website does not (yet) give full details. Please note that the project is not mine, we are just looking how much interest there is, therefore raise hands if interested in a PCB. Jos Dreesen From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Nov 27 15:19:14 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article In-Reply-To: <200411271301.09760.lbickley@bickleywest.com> References: <41A888EE.2010508@vzavenue.net> <200411271301.09760.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: <41A8EF52.3070802@mdrconsult.com> Lyle Bickley wrote: >>Zane H. Healy wrote: >> One of these days I will have to check out an old SGI to see what the >> fuss was about. > > > Of all of the systems I have - including DEC PDP-8 and 11, VAX, NeXT, Amiga, > Apple, S100 systems, HP, etc. - SGI is my hands-down favorite. Perhaps > that's because I love graphics and SGI simply does it best. > > I always have tried to collect/restore those systems with the best graphics > and video options... Since we're talking about SGI graphics & stuff, does anybody have an Indy Presenter cable? I have an R4k Indy with Presenter board and the Presenter panel, all in a very cool Indy bag. I just don't have the cable to make it happen. Doc From acme at gbronline.com Sat Nov 27 15:28:02 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) References: Message-ID: <031c01c4d4c7$fa6dd960$164f0945@acme> ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Duell > What's this love of the ZX81, which I regard as a postively horrible > machine. I'd not rip one apart, though, mainly because there's little of > use to raid from it... You regard it as horrible because . . . ? (Please don't mention the keyboard. Lots of machines of that era had crap keyboards. It's easy to attach a better keyboard to a ZX81.) Glen 0/0 From lbickley at bickleywest.com Sat Nov 27 15:32:35 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article In-Reply-To: <41A8EF52.3070802@mdrconsult.com> References: <200411271301.09760.lbickley@bickleywest.com> <41A8EF52.3070802@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <200411271332.35452.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Doc, It depends on which Presenter Cable you need. There are different cables for the Presenter 1024 and Presenter 1280, etc. I may have a spare cable - but I'll need to know what you need at "Both Ends" (i.e., the Presenter Card in the Indy and the type of Presenter you have). Lyle On Saturday 27 November 2004 13:19, Doc Shipley wrote: > Lyle Bickley wrote: > >>Zane H. Healy wrote: > >> One of these days I will have to check out an old SGI to see what the > >> fuss was about. > > > > Of all of the systems I have - including DEC PDP-8 and 11, VAX, NeXT, > > Amiga, Apple, S100 systems, HP, etc. - SGI is my hands-down favorite. > > Perhaps that's because I love graphics and SGI simply does it best. > > > > I always have tried to collect/restore those systems with the best > > graphics and video options... > > Since we're talking about SGI graphics & stuff, does anybody have an > Indy Presenter cable? > > I have an R4k Indy with Presenter board and the Presenter panel, all > in a very cool Indy bag. I just don't have the cable to make it happen. > > > Doc -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From lbickley at bickleywest.com Sat Nov 27 15:32:35 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article In-Reply-To: <41A8EF52.3070802@mdrconsult.com> References: <200411271301.09760.lbickley@bickleywest.com> <41A8EF52.3070802@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <200411271332.35452.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Doc, It depends on which Presenter Cable you need. There are different cables for the Presenter 1024 and Presenter 1280, etc. I may have a spare cable - but I'll need to know what you need at "Both Ends" (i.e., the Presenter Card in the Indy and the type of Presenter you have). Lyle On Saturday 27 November 2004 13:19, Doc Shipley wrote: > Lyle Bickley wrote: > >>Zane H. Healy wrote: > >> One of these days I will have to check out an old SGI to see what the > >> fuss was about. > > > > Of all of the systems I have - including DEC PDP-8 and 11, VAX, NeXT, > > Amiga, Apple, S100 systems, HP, etc. - SGI is my hands-down favorite. > > Perhaps that's because I love graphics and SGI simply does it best. > > > > I always have tried to collect/restore those systems with the best > > graphics and video options... > > Since we're talking about SGI graphics & stuff, does anybody have an > Indy Presenter cable? > > I have an R4k Indy with Presenter board and the Presenter panel, all > in a very cool Indy bag. I just don't have the cable to make it happen. > > > Doc -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From spectre at floodgap.com Sat Nov 27 15:50:20 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: <031c01c4d4c7$fa6dd960$164f0945@acme> from Glen Goodwin at "Nov 27, 4 04:28:02 pm" Message-ID: <200411272150.NAA17484@floodgap.com> > > What's this love of the ZX81, which I regard as a postively horrible > > machine. I'd not rip one apart, though, mainly because there's little of > > use to raid from it... > > You regard it as horrible because . . . ? I find the T/S 1000 a unique machine (and tip of the hat to Glen who sent me a version modded for composite output ... still working great!). I'm still a Commodore freak for life, but you can't beat the form factor :) and it has a fascinating and very hackable architecture. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Shady business do not make for sunny life. -- Charlie Chan ----------------- From acme at gbronline.com Sat Nov 27 15:41:40 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: FYI: identity theft References: <001001c4d257$7f32f450$5b01a8c0@flexpc><3.0.6.32.20041123215946.00a5b9f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><001001c4d257$7f32f450$5b01a8c0@flexpc> <3.0.6.32.20041124223236.009d3ea0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <034b01c4d4c9$e1dd2ca0$164f0945@acme> ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe R. > That's just one more reason that I refuse to accept Paypal!!!!!!! I > take checks, cash and money orders PERIOD. That way I don't have to worry > about someone draining my account. Hello Joe -- At the end of each business day, I transfer all of the PayPal funds I have received that day into my bank account, so there's no possibility of someone "draining" the PayPal account. As far as wire (telegraphic) transfers coming in to your bank account (payments to you), you are perfectly safe in giving out your bank account number and bank routing code to anyone. I had to go through all manner of gyrations in order to get set up to transfer funds out of my own account to pay overseas suppliers. And, for the Nigerians, I've found nothing works better to get rid of them: "I'm sorry, but our company policy prevents us from accepting your bank check. Shipments to Nigeria must be paid for in advance by wire transfer only." I always include my bank account number and routing code, and I never hear from them again. Glen 0/0 From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Nov 27 16:21:00 2004 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: Traling-Edge In-Reply-To: <41A8EDFF.70606@mdrconsult.com> (Doc Shipley's message of "Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:13:35 -0600") References: <41A8EDFF.70606@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <200411272221.iARML0fr049395@lots.reanimators.org> Doc Shipley wrote: > www.trailing-edge.com has been down for 2 Days. > > Not that I desperately need anything from there, but it's unusual. > > Has anybody heard from Tim Shoppa? Tim posted this to a.f.c yesterday morning. -Frank McConnell From: shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: *.trailing-edge.com Date: 26 Nov 2004 04:55:09 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com Message-ID: The web-accessible archives at trailing-edge.com, namely simh.trailing-edge.com pdp-10.trailing-edge.com pdp-11.trailing-edge.com etc. are down due to windstorm activity yesterday. With a little luck things may be back up early next week (week of Nov 29 - Dec 3). Realistically there are a lot of trees and wires down and hooking back up to the interweb may take a while. The SIMH and pdp-11 stuff as of July 2004 is mirrored at http://bitsavers.org/simh.trailing-edge.com/ http://bitsavers.org/pdp-11.trailing-edge.com/ Thanks Al! Tim. From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sat Nov 27 16:29:32 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: Traling-Edge In-Reply-To: <41A8EDFF.70606@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <000001c4d4d0$9175a970$6e7ba8c0@p933> He posted on Usenet that a wind storm had knocked him out. He expects to be up early next week, with luck. [quote from alt.folklore.computers] The web-accessible archives at trailing-edge.com, namely simh.trailing-edge.com pdp-10.trailing-edge.com pdp-11.trailing-edge.com etc. are down due to windstorm activity yesterday. With a little luck things may be back up early next week (week of Nov 29 - Dec 3). Realistically there are a lot of trees and wires down and hooking back up to the interweb may take a while. The SIMH and pdp-11 stuff as of July 2004 is mirrored at http://bitsavers.org/simh.trailing-edge.com/ http://bitsavers.org/pdp-11.trailing-edge.com/ Thanks Al! Tim. [end quote] Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Doc Shipley Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 1:14 PM To: General@mdrconsult.com; Discussion@mdrconsult.com :On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Traling-Edge www.trailing-edge.com has been down for 2 Days. Not that I desperately need anything from there, but it's unusual. Has anybody heard from Tim Shoppa? Doc From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Sat Nov 27 16:48:53 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: <031c01c4d4c7$fa6dd960$164f0945@acme> References: <031c01c4d4c7$fa6dd960$164f0945@acme> Message-ID: <833B193B-40C6-11D9-B781-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Nov 27, 2004, at 1:28 PM, Glen Goodwin wrote: > > You regard it as horrible because . . . ? > Keboard is OK when you run an Emulation! :^) I don't have the real ZX81. I have some questions though... This is a spectrum emulator, ZXSP, functions? rnd in particular let x=rnd(?) I tried 0,1 blank, no "()" what? Trouble entering "for" isn't it "For var = start to finish" From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Nov 27 16:51:49 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: Who needs a Profile or Widget harddisk ? In-Reply-To: <9661CB5E-40B9-11D9-931B-000A9586BBB0@bluewin.ch> References: <9661CB5E-40B9-11D9-931B-000A9586BBB0@bluewin.ch> Message-ID: <1101595909.26590.45.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sat, 2004-11-27 at 22:16 +0100, Jos Dreesen wrote: > Not that I have any spare ones, but look at this site for a description > of a IDE to Profile/widget translator. > > http://john.ccac.rwth-aachen.de:8000/patrick/idefile.htm > > The website does not (yet) give full details. > Please note that the project is not mine, we are just looking how much > interest there is, therefore raise hands if interested in a PCB. Hmm, a way of backing up / restoring to / from a machine connected to the serial port might be a handy feature, by the way - assuming the port speed doesn't knock that on the head.. I'll mention it to the others at the museum - cool bit of hardware :) We've got 4 working Profiles left (and a 5th that we haven't tested yet) so we're doing OK for working units at the moment. Good to know this exists though! Getting working ST506 drives still of course isn't much of a problem, but far as I recall the original drives were low level formatted by Apple themselves prior to being shipped and neither the necessary hardware or software is around to do this these days :-( cheers Jules From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat Nov 27 16:53:06 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: Traling-Edge References: <41A8EDFF.70606@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <000e01c4d4d3$dc222630$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Since there is a mirror on bitsavers, I THINK I have a mirror of trailing edge on classiccmp.org as well, at www.classiccmp.org/bitsavers Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc Shipley" To: ; "Discussion@mdrconsult.com :On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 3:13 PM Subject: Traling-Edge > www.trailing-edge.com has been down for 2 Days. > > Not that I desperately need anything from there, but it's unusual. > > Has anybody heard from Tim Shoppa? > > > Doc > > From acme at gbronline.com Sat Nov 27 16:54:52 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: ZX81 References: <200411250903.JAA13000@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <035e01c4d4d4$1bc58020$164f0945@acme> ----- Original Message ----- From: Stan Barr > My ZX81 is in a big box with plug-in cards and a keyswitch keyboard... What sort of cards? Pictures??? Glen 0/0 From stuart at zen.co.uk Sat Nov 27 16:56:48 2004 From: stuart at zen.co.uk (Stuart Birchall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: wtd: uk - Mac XL References: <000001c4d4d0$9175a970$6e7ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <00e401c4d4d4$605dc5d0$010f4652@office.zen.co.uk> Hi everyone, I'm looking for a Mac XL in the UK if anyone can help, please drop me a line. Thanks. Stu From chenmel at earthlink.net Sat Nov 27 17:00:20 2004 From: chenmel at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: Info needed- Intel 8024A Multibus SBC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:52:42 EST, Paxton wrote: >I looked in my intel 1990 book and it looks just like the ISBC 80/24A card in >the book with a 8085-2 processor and ISBX connectors for the Mezz card. > >Normally the card has edge card connectors on top. It looks like someone >soldered header connectors to the edgecard ones. > >I just got an Intel 80-10 rackmount chassis with a 80/10 processor (8080 >chip), a National Semiconductor 2 port memory card, an analog devices RTI 1200 and >an intel SBC-108 combination mem & I/O expansion. Looks like it needs some >cleaning to get it fired up. > >Paxton >Astoria It may be the A suffix is key. I found online info for the 80/24 board, but the picture for it is totally different from mine, i.e. the chip layout is different, etc. Maybe I need to search with the key 80/24A now. I have some Intel data books that I haven't dug in yet (the whole row of electronic data bookcases cavalcaded down *onto* me about a year ago and it's all been a mess since). I'm just looking for data that might help me figure these boards out. I have an EPROM emulator and conceivably could just plug it in and run some code. Yes, the boards that I have, they apparently surface-soldered some 0.100" ribbon cable connectors onto the board-edge connectors. Which actually makes them easier (for me) to find connectors for (but 'spoils' the original appearance of the board) Scott From dave04a at dunfield.com Sat Nov 27 17:54:45 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) Message-ID: <20041127235444.LHNG18335.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> At 16:28 27/11/2004 -0500, you wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: Tony Duell > >> What's this love of the ZX81, which I regard as a postively horrible >> machine. I'd not rip one apart, though, mainly because there's little of >> use to raid from it... > >You regard it as horrible because . . . ? Aside from keyboard ;-) CPU intensive video design - lose video when program running (or SSLLOOWW mode for ZX81). This also makes it highly dependant on the internal firmware, so that it's tough to adapt other Z80 software systems to run on it. "RF only", and poorly shielded computer make it tough to get decent TV display. Limited internal RAM - and expansion very prone to connector problems/flakiness (practically useless without an external keyboard so that you didn't have to touch the machine while it was running). Slightly odd dialect of BASIC. Never did like the use of single-key "shift" keywords (although this is essential given the keyboard) - also a matter of taste, so this cannot be considered a "fault". But... I still consider the ZX80/81 a rather interesting and innovative design, because it truly was designed to get "something from almost nothing". Most of the items listed above are just the "nature of the beast" - given what it was (the lowest price entry on the block) and to be *VERY* cheap to manufacture. I know guys who did a *LOT* with their ZX80 - they are a capable machine. But, their limitations make them look very poor when compared to other more traditional designs. To appreciate the ZX, you need to keep in mind that it is SUPPOSED to be a very minimal machine. It makes more sense as an alternative to a programmable calculator than as an alternative to a word processing or serious software development machine. The only really bad thing about the ZX is that I think a lot of people bought it expecting more than it had to offer... Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 27 18:55:07 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: <031c01c4d4c7$fa6dd960$164f0945@acme> from "Glen Goodwin" at Nov 27, 4 04:28:02 pm Message-ID: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tony Duell > > > What's this love of the ZX81, which I regard as a postively horrible > > machine. I'd not rip one apart, though, mainly because there's little of > > use to raid from it... > > You regard it as horrible because . . . ? > > (Please don't mention the keyboard. Lots of machines of > that era had crap keyboards. It's easy to attach a better > keyboard to a ZX81.) OK, in no particular order : The keyboard (and see below for my comment on your comment). It's almost unusuable The video system. It's a total kludge, about the worst I've seen The cassette storage (I am used to _reliable_ data storage systems) The BASIC. BASIC is not my favourite language at the best of times, this versions is one of the worst, though The expansion connector (the physical form of it, the fact that if the RAMpack wobbles, the machine crashes). The ULA. I dislike hardware I can't hack, modify or repair. OK, most of those can be got round by adding/replacing hardware. But by the time you've finished, about all that's left of the ZX81 is the Z80 CPU, and there are plenty of easier ways of getting and useing that chip. For the time, it was cheap, and therefore sold well. Nowadays there are many, many, nicer machines available for less money than a second-hand ZX81... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 27 18:59:33 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: <20041127235444.LHNG18335.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> from "Dave Dunfield" at Nov 27, 4 06:54:45 pm Message-ID: > designs. To appreciate the ZX, you need to keep in mind that it is SUPPOSED to be > a very minimal machine. It makes more sense as an alternative to a programmable > calculator than as an alternative to a word processing or serious software > development machine. Alas, I'd find it useless as a replacement for my programmable calculator, since it needs a mains supply and a TV as the display. Neither of which I can easily carry about with me, sit on top of a PDP11, or whatever. In any case, my programmable calculators have real mass storage (including 3.5" floppies), 80 column video, decent printers, useful I/O, and so on. I use HP41s with IL and most of the peripherals... -tony From aek at spies.com Sat Nov 27 19:34:19 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: TU80 error 65? Message-ID: <20041128013419.DD28448DE@spies.com> according to the tu81 diag pathfinder it's a formatter read board health check fault the cdc 92181 docs only go up to 61 as well. From gordon at gjcp.net Sat Nov 27 20:03:12 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: <833B193B-40C6-11D9-B781-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> References: <031c01c4d4c7$fa6dd960$164f0945@acme> <833B193B-40C6-11D9-B781-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <41A931E0.10801@gjcp.net> Ron Hudson wrote: > > On Nov 27, 2004, at 1:28 PM, Glen Goodwin wrote: > >> >> You regard it as horrible because . . . ? >> > > Keboard is OK when you run an Emulation! :^) I don't have the real ZX81. > > I have some questions though... > > This is a spectrum emulator, ZXSP, > > functions? rnd in particular let x=rnd(?) > > I tried 0,1 blank, no "()" what? > > Trouble entering "for" isn't it "For var = start to finish" RND should return a number between 0 and 0.999 Gordon From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Nov 27 20:04:00 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: Apollos again - and an HP2115A In-Reply-To: <1101582175.26650.19.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041127210400.00989250@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:02 PM 11/27/04 +0000, Jules wrote: > >Also, what the heck's an HP 2115A? Found one earlier all nicely boxed >and wrapped up, plus possibly a second one (it's too buried under more >modern HP stuff to get to it yet!). Looks like a rather nice machine! Of course, it's nice. It's HP! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Nov 27 20:13:04 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: Info needed- Intel 8024A Multibus SBC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041127211304.0098d8e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> The 80/24 and 80/24A boards are very different. Go look at this webpage. Click on Multibus I then click on 80/24 or 80/24A to get a small picture and a brief description of each. You can click on the small pictures and get a larger picture. Joe At 06:00 PM 11/27/04 -0500, you wrote: >On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:52:42 EST, Paxton wrote: > >>I looked in my intel 1990 book and it looks just like the ISBC 80/24A card in >>the book with a 8085-2 processor and ISBX connectors for the Mezz card. >> >>Normally the card has edge card connectors on top. It looks like someone >>soldered header connectors to the edgecard ones. >> >>I just got an Intel 80-10 rackmount chassis with a 80/10 processor (8080 >>chip), a National Semiconductor 2 port memory card, an analog devices RTI 1200 and >>an intel SBC-108 combination mem & I/O expansion. Looks like it needs some >>cleaning to get it fired up. >> >>Paxton >>Astoria > >It may be the A suffix is key. I found online info for the 80/24 >board, but the picture for it is totally different from mine, i.e. the >chip layout is different, etc. Maybe I need to search with the key >80/24A now. I have some Intel data books that I haven't dug in yet >(the whole row of electronic data bookcases cavalcaded down *onto* me >about a year ago and it's all been a mess since). I'm just looking >for data that might help me figure these boards out. I have an EPROM >emulator and conceivably could just plug it in and run some code. > >Yes, the boards that I have, they apparently surface-soldered some >0.100" ribbon cable connectors onto the board-edge connectors. Which >actually makes them easier (for me) to find connectors for (but >'spoils' the original appearance of the board) > >Scott > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Nov 27 19:56:40 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: Greenbar paper In-Reply-To: <200411271452.OAA12179@citadel.metropolis.local> References: <"Your message of Sat, 27 Nov 2004 10:59:43 GMT." <41A85E1F.1010000@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041127205640.00988480@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I don't know about the UK but here in the US the stuff still shows up in the surplus and trift stores fairly regularly. Joe At 02:52 PM 11/27/04 +0000, you wrote: >Hi, > >Gordon JC Pearce said: >> I apologise if this question has been done to death, but is there >> anywhere in the UK I can get 14 7/8" greenbar paper? > >A little whie back I got some narrower music ruled stuff from: >http://ukofficedirect.opnet.co.uk try them. > > >-- >Cheers, >Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com > >The future was never like this! > > > From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Sat Nov 27 20:27:16 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: <41A931E0.10801@gjcp.net> References: <031c01c4d4c7$fa6dd960$164f0945@acme> <833B193B-40C6-11D9-B781-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <41A931E0.10801@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <0552808E-40E5-11D9-8229-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Nov 27, 2004, at 6:03 PM, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > Ron Hudson wrote: >> On Nov 27, 2004, at 1:28 PM, Glen Goodwin wrote: >>> >>> You regard it as horrible because . . . ? >>> >> Keboard is OK when you run an Emulation! :^) I don't have the real >> ZX81. >> I have some questions though... >> This is a spectrum emulator, ZXSP, >> functions? rnd in particular let x=rnd(?) >> I tried 0,1 blank, no "()" what? >> Trouble entering "for" isn't it "For var = start to finish" > > RND should return a number between 0 and 0.999 Sure, but how is it called? rnd(0) rnd(1) rnd rnd() ? All of those gave rnd(?) when I press enter. > > Gordon > > > From cb at mythtech.net Sat Nov 27 21:49:22 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: Greenbar paper Message-ID: > I don't know about the UK but here in the US the stuff still shows up in >the surplus and trift stores fairly regularly. At least around here (northern NJ), I still see greenbar in the office supply stores from time to time. Usually just one case, sitting, well beaten, in the corner by the rest of the paper. -chris From jrice54 at vzavenue.net Sat Nov 27 22:58:03 2004 From: jrice54 at vzavenue.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: Greenbar paper In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41A95ADB.3090703@vzavenue.net> Sam's Clubs still stock greenbar paper. chris wrote: >> I don't know about the UK but here in the US the stuff still shows up in >>the surplus and trift stores fairly regularly. >> >> > >At least around here (northern NJ), I still see greenbar in the office >supply stores from time to time. Usually just one case, sitting, well >beaten, in the corner by the rest of the paper. > >-chris > > > > > -- www.blackcube.org The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers From tomj at wps.com Sun Nov 28 00:18:48 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: HP junk at Apex Electronics (Sun Valley, CA) Message-ID: Wuz at apex today, I mentally noted the HP stuff tyhat's been there forever. Manuals for 9600c (binder 9), a bunch (4? 8?) 9825 manuals and software, basic, pascal, etc, plus a "terminal emulator" with a set of cartridges/tapes in plastic page holders in a binder. I don't have enough cash riught now to front this stuff. It's where all the manuals are. Plus, if you go to buy them all once, the price will skyrocket, as per standard surplus culture, so you'll have to go and take one, two at a time, etc. That Tek repackaged PDP11 thing is still there too. 8" floppy and a 8" hard disk. No monitor present. Looks clean. I wrote about it before; I don't recall the model, but search for 'apex' and tomj in archives. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Nov 27 19:31:46 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0205ae144d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > In any case, my programmable calculators have real mass storage > (including 3.5" floppies), 80 column video, decent printers, useful I/O, > and so on. I use HP41s with IL and most of the peripherals... Heh. I've been toying with the idea of buying one of the TI programmable graphics calculators (probably a TI-84). Anyone got one? Can they be made to do RPN, hex->bin conversion, bitwise operations, etc.? Failing that, anyone care to suggest a nice, (fairly) low-cost programmers' calculator? I know at least one person is going to say "HP 16C", but I haven't seen any around my neck of the woods for a while, and the ones I've seen on Ebay seem to go for insane amounts. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... I ran Doublespace on my monitor & get 2 more TV channels. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Nov 28 02:29:35 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: <0552808E-40E5-11D9-8229-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> References: <031c01c4d4c7$fa6dd960$164f0945@acme> <833B193B-40C6-11D9-B781-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <41A931E0.10801@gjcp.net> <0552808E-40E5-11D9-8229-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <1101630575.27531.5.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sat, 2004-11-27 at 18:27 -0800, Ron Hudson wrote: > On Nov 27, 2004, at 6:03 PM, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > > > Ron Hudson wrote: > >> On Nov 27, 2004, at 1:28 PM, Glen Goodwin wrote: > >>> > >>> You regard it as horrible because . . . ? > >>> > >> Keboard is OK when you run an Emulation! :^) I don't have the real > >> ZX81. > >> I have some questions though... > >> This is a spectrum emulator, ZXSP, > >> functions? rnd in particular let x=rnd(?) > >> I tried 0,1 blank, no "()" what? > >> Trouble entering "for" isn't it "For var = start to finish" > > > > RND should return a number between 0 and 0.999 > > Sure, but how is it called? rnd(0) rnd(1) rnd rnd() ? > > All of those gave rnd(?) when I press enter. Just rnd I think, no parameters, brackets etc. - 'let x=rnd' should work. That 'for' syntax looks right too. Hmm, the BASIC *might* be picky about spaces btw. cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Nov 28 02:31:05 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: TU80 error 65? In-Reply-To: <20041128013419.DD28448DE@spies.com> References: <20041128013419.DD28448DE@spies.com> Message-ID: <1101630665.27531.7.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sat, 2004-11-27 at 17:34 -0800, Al Kossow wrote: > according to the tu81 diag pathfinder it's a formatter read board health check fault > > the cdc 92181 docs only go up to 61 as well. thanks :-) Will take a look today hopefully. cheers, J. From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sun Nov 28 03:11:21 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 27 Nov 2004 18:54:45 EST." <20041127235444.LHNG18335.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: <200411280911.JAA20605@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Dave Dunfield said: > I know guys who did a *LOT* with their ZX80 - they are a capable machine. But, > their limitations make them look very poor when compared to other more traditional > designs. To appreciate the ZX, you need to keep in mind that it is SUPPOSED to be > a very minimal machine. It makes more sense as an alternative to a programmable > calculator than as an alternative to a word processing or serious software > development machine. > > Take at look at what these guys are doing, assuming they're still going: http://home.freiepresse.de/befis/zx96_e.htm -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sun Nov 28 03:04:21 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: ZX81 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:54:52 EST." <035e01c4d4d4$1bc58020$164f0945@acme> Message-ID: <200411280904.JAA20583@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Glen Goodwin said: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Stan Barr > > > My ZX81 is in a big box with plug-in cards and a keyswitch keyboard... > > What sort of cards? > A bus extender with two in/out cards (8255 based, three 8-bit ports each) and a 16K RAMpack. 2 of the i/o ports were used with a 2-port 8-bit analogue to digital input board. > Pictures??? I'll try. My old Apple Quicktake 100 (on-topic now?) won't focus close enough but I plan to get a new camera for Xmas... (Most of my photography is black'n'white using older cmaeras!) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From gordon at gjcp.net Sun Nov 28 05:30:17 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: <0552808E-40E5-11D9-8229-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> References: <031c01c4d4c7$fa6dd960$164f0945@acme> <833B193B-40C6-11D9-B781-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <41A931E0.10801@gjcp.net> <0552808E-40E5-11D9-8229-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <41A9B6C9.9080706@gjcp.net> Ron Hudson wrote: > > On Nov 27, 2004, at 6:03 PM, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > >> Ron Hudson wrote: >> >>> On Nov 27, 2004, at 1:28 PM, Glen Goodwin wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> You regard it as horrible because . . . ? >>>> >>> Keboard is OK when you run an Emulation! :^) I don't have the real >>> ZX81. >>> I have some questions though... >>> This is a spectrum emulator, ZXSP, >>> functions? rnd in particular let x=rnd(?) >>> I tried 0,1 blank, no "()" what? >>> Trouble entering "for" isn't it "For var = start to finish" >> >> >> RND should return a number between 0 and 0.999 > > > Sure, but how is it called? rnd(0) rnd(1) rnd rnd() ? > > All of those gave rnd(?) when I press enter. Just "RND" on its own. I don't know what kind of emulation you're running, there should only be the keyword "RND" (without any brackets, single keypress. IIRC). Gordon. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Nov 28 06:11:52 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: Old Unibus PDP-11 items needed In-Reply-To: "Ashley Carder" "Old Unibus PDP-11 items needed" (Nov 27, 11:51) References: Message-ID: <10411281211.ZM1134@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 27 2004, 11:51, Ashley Carder wrote: > I am looking for the following old PDP-11 unibus modules: > > * M7237 - Stack limit register for PDP-11/35 and 11/40 I've been looking for one of those for several years, too. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Nov 28 06:13:23 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: Greenbar paper In-Reply-To: Gordon JC Pearce "Greenbar paper" (Nov 27, 10:59) References: <41A85E1F.1010000@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <10411281213.ZM1137@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 27 2004, 10:59, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > I apologise if this question has been done to death, but is there > anywhere in the UK I can get 14 7/8" greenbar paper? Our library announced they had some to get rid of a few days ago. If it's not been claimed I could get you some, but the boxes are heavy so expect to pay quite a lot for shipping. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Nov 28 06:31:09 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article In-Reply-To: Lyle Bickley "Re: Wired running SGI Article" (Nov 27, 13:01) References: <41A888EE.2010508@vzavenue.net> <200411271301.09760.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: <10411281231.ZM1148@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 27 2004, 13:01, Lyle Bickley wrote: > I always have tried to collect/restore those systems with the best graphics > and video options... > > In my SGI collection I have: > > Qty. Description That's a nice collection, especially the second Onyx. FDDI, too (I have FDDI on my Origin and two Indys and an FDDI-ATM bridge but unfortunately the Indys are SAS devices so it doesn't make a proper ring). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Nov 28 06:26:48 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article In-Reply-To: Jochen Kunz "Re: Wired running SGI Article" (Nov 27, 17:17) References: <002801c4d447$658a1050$192d1941@game> <10411271250.ZM29479@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20041127171717.6e85c06b.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <10411281226.ZM1143@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 27 2004, 17:17, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 12:50:04 GMT > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > I have three Indigos (left out of six), > Dead PSUs? At the Unix-AG we had six Indigos. Only one is alive. The > other machines died the suden PSU death. No, I have three left becasue I cleaned up and refurbished the others: one to a listmember, and two to ex-colleagues who used to use them extensively. The PSUs are easy to repair. > At home I have two Personal Iris (a 4D30 and a loaded 4D35), A R4k with > the simple LG1 framebuffer and a R3k Indigo without GFX. A R4k4-150 > Indy, a R4k4-200 Extreme Indogo2, a R10k-195 Impact Indigo2 (the machine > I am sitting in front of right now) and an Octane. (R12k-300, ESSI + ESI > dual head, 2 GB RAM, PCI card cage with additional SCSI and FDDI, total > of 36 GB disk, CD-RW, DLT) I have an Indy R4400SC-150 as well. I was always rather disappointed with its speed, though; it's considerably slower than most of the other Indys. I never liked the look of the Indigo^2 so I don't have any of those. I'd like your Octane, though,if you ever get tired of it ;-) > > and a 16-processor x 180MHz R10K Origin2000. > A Origin2000 is nice, but I would prefere an Onyx2000. ;-) :-) The O2K I helped look after in Computer Science was a 32 processor unit and it had a graphics unit. Nothing like Onyx graphics, but I would have liked that. > > > What I really want one of these days is a nice Dual Processor Octane > > > with R12000 CPU's. > > Have you heard one? Have you got a pair of comfortable ear defenders? > He. I have an extra machine room and run extension cables through the > wall. So I don't care about noise. :-) Ditto for my Origin (and the PDPs etc). The machine room is an extension to the house, and I have UTP, serial lines, thinwire, and fibre between m/c room and office. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Nov 28 06:45:52 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article In-Reply-To: Jules Richardson "Re: Wired running SGI Article" (Nov 27, 18:53) References: <002801c4d447$658a1050$192d1941@game> <10411271250.ZM29479@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <1101581588.26590.8.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <10411281245.ZM1154@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 27 2004, 18:53, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Sat, 2004-11-27 at 12:50 +0000, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > and a 16-processor x 180MHz R10K Origin2000. > > I thought you only had 8 in that thing! :-) You only saw one module and one FC-RAID box; there's a second one at work, in the proper O2K rack with some more PCI cards, a couple of XIO cards, an Origin Vault, and a bunch more Craylink cables. > I'm thinking our R5K Indy with the 24bit board might be useful as a > front-end for some ray tracing exhibit - I think it's the only 'old' > machine we have with 24 bit colour. > > We've just got that machine, a pair of R4K Indys (one with a duff CPU so > spares only) I may have a spare CPU module. > The latter three still only have one keyboard to share between them > though :-( I'll try to remember to count my keyboards and see if I have a spare. > It'd be nice to find an O200 or O2000 someday! > > > The O2K is currently split into two units, one at home (with all the > > extra bits'n'bobs) and one on loan to a research unit at the > > University. > > Aha! :) I'll remember you said that if I need to find space to keep the O2K rack :-) > > And work have stopped buying/suuporting SGI :-( > > does that mean you'll be clearing them out of all things SGI? ;-) Depends. Several departments have SGIs of their own, which they keep running even though we no longer provide support for them, as of this summer. They're mostly Indys and a few O2s, but there's the odd Power Challenge etc. We have a bunch of O2s which were classroom machines, and were retired in the summer, but I'm not sure yet what will happen to them. I might be able to get you one or two. They're low-spec, though: R5K-180, 4GB disks, mostly only 64MB RAM. Most of us in CompServ who have O2s are keeping them :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Nov 28 06:49:47 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: Dave Dunfield "Re: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects)" (Nov 27, 18:54) References: <20041127235444.LHNG18335.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: <10411281249.ZM1158@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 27 2004, 18:54, Dave Dunfield wrote: > At 16:28 27/11/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Tony Duell > > > >> What's this love of the ZX81, which I regard as a postively horrible > >> machine. I'd not rip one apart, though, mainly because there's little of > >> use to raid from it... > > > >You regard it as horrible because . . . ? > > Aside from keyboard ;-) > > CPU intensive video design - lose video when program running (or SSLLOOWW > mode for ZX81). > > This also makes it highly dependant on the internal firmware, so that it's > tough to adapt other Z80 software systems to run on it. > > "RF only", and poorly shielded computer make it tough to get decent TV display. I wonder if that's becasue it's VHF? UHF ones I've seen here aren't *too* bad, and it's trivial to add a composite video lead. > Limited internal RAM - and expansion very prone to connector problems/flakiness > (practically useless without an external keyboard so that you didn't have to > touch the machine while it was running). Yu can replace the internal RAM. > Slightly odd dialect of BASIC. Slightly?!*! > But... I still consider the ZX80/81 a rather interesting and innovative design, > because it truly was designed to get "something from almost nothing". Most of > the items listed above are just the "nature of the beast" - given what it was > (the lowest price entry on the block) and to be *VERY* cheap to manufacture. Yes, I would agree. I still keep mine, though I've hardly ever used it. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Nov 28 07:33:32 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: Who needs a Profile or Widget harddisk ? In-Reply-To: <9661CB5E-40B9-11D9-931B-000A9586BBB0@bluewin.ch> References: <9661CB5E-40B9-11D9-931B-000A9586BBB0@bluewin.ch> Message-ID: <4309.192.168.0.7.1101648812.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> > Not that I have any spare ones, but look at this site for a description > of a IDE to Profile/widget translator. > > http://john.ccac.rwth-aachen.de:8000/patrick/idefile.htm > That's fantastic! I guess as ever that interest will be directly related to the cost of the unit.... cheers, -- adrian/witchy Binary Dinosaurs owner/curator www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UKs biggest home computer collection? From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Nov 28 07:39:16 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: ZX81 In-Reply-To: <200411280904.JAA20583@citadel.metropolis.local> References: <035e01c4d4d4$1bc58020$164f0945@acme> <200411280904.JAA20583@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <20041128133916.GA20641@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Nov 28, 2004 at 09:04:21AM +0000, Stan Barr wrote: > I'll try. My old Apple Quicktake 100 (on-topic now?) Yes... It should have been available in 1994. I still have a QT150 that cost me $30 a few years back; I first used that one in 1996 in McMurdo (the Antarctic program paid $800 for it!) > won't focus close There's a snap-on close-up lens that I don't happen to have. Last I checked, it was possible to buy it from Apple for around $17. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 28-Nov-2004 13:28 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -27.8 F (-33.3 C) Windchill -53.1 F (-47.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 11 kts Grid 024 Barometer 696.1 mb (10025. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Nov 28 07:55:44 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: <031c01c4d4c7$fa6dd960$164f0945@acme> References: <031c01c4d4c7$fa6dd960$164f0945@acme> Message-ID: <4584.192.168.0.7.1101650144.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> > From: Tony Duell > > What's this love of the ZX81, which I regard as a postively horrible > machine. I'd not rip one apart, though, mainly because there's little of > use to raid from it... It's quite simple - if it wasn't for the ZX80/81 I wouldn't be here now doing this, nor would I have learned how to program, or have my museum. I don't care that it's not a good hardware design or that it uses 'funny BASIC' or that its maths might not be perfect.....it was only ukp70 and it changed my life. -- adrian/witchy Binary Dinosaurs owner/curator www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UKs biggest home computer collection? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Nov 28 08:09:40 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:56 2005 Subject: Masscomp computers? In-Reply-To: <1101582634.26590.27.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <3.0.6.32.20041124235346.009d1b80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <41A505BE.7070004@tds.net> <3.0.6.32.20041124072546.009cc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200411241153.44375.kenziem@sympatico.ca> <41A505BE.7070004@tds.net> <3.0.6.32.20041124235346.009d1b80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041128090940.009778e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:10 PM 11/27/04 +0000, you wrote: >On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 23:53 -0500, Joe R. wrote: >> Mine has a sticker on the back but the model number on it is totally >> meaningless. I decided that it's a MC5600 based on the number of CPUs and >> number of card slots and the physical description of the machine. FWIW this >> one is a rack mount version and there's almost no mention of it in the >> manuals except in the installation manual. >> > >Right, I had about 5 minutes to look at our Masscomp earlier... >hopefully will have more time tomorrow. > >It's got a Micropolis 8" hard disk in the base, which is something (not >much use without given we have no install media for it!). Also a QIC >tape drive and a floppy drive at the front. That sounds older than mine. It has 5 1/4" hard drive and 5 1/4" floppy drive. Any idea what interface your HD uses? It might help pin down the interface card used. > >Cards labelled on the edges as follows: > >FPP Just as a guess I'd say that this is a Floating Point Processor. My manual talks about two diffferent ones, the LFP (Lightning Floaing Point) modules and SLFP (Super Lightnintg Floating Point) module. These meet the IEEE 754 Floating Point Standard. The LFP is syncronous and the SLFP is syncronous or asyncronous. FWIw there was also a VA-1 (Vector Accelerator) module. >MEM2 below >APU I'm guessing that this is the AFM (Axillery Function Module). This card in neither MB or SMI. It's used to control which CPU card boots the system and to comunicate with it using the PIB serial port. It also has SMI bus terminators and arbitration circuitry for the Multibus. There are at least four types of AFM boards. >MEM I'm guessing that this and the MEM2 are memory cards. According to the manual they should be marked as CMM or TMM. SMI interface. >MPU Probably the "CMPU" card. SMI CPU card with 68020 CPU. This is the same CPU card that mine use. >GPX Aw! Finally a card that is in my manual. The GPX is the Graphic Processor Expansion Module. It functions solely as a slave to the GPM and expands it's raster memoey. Each GPX adds an additional 4 planes of raster memory and a color map. Each GPM can support 2 GPXs. These are neither MB or SMI. >GPM Another a card that's in my manual. The GPM is a the Graphics Processor Module. This one is what MC referrs to as an extended height card residing on the MB (Multibus). It preforms independent graphics processing using an 8MHz 68000.It has 128K of RAM program memory and 256k of raster memory consisting of two independent frame buffers, organized into 2 planes, >DSD I don't know what this is but it might stand for Drive System (something). Check and see if it connects to the drives. > >No Ethernet board unfortunately. FPP is presumably a floating point >board? No idea about APU. DSD I'm guessing does the floppy/tape/hard >drive? That would be my guess. I don't know if your OS will support Ethernet cards but I have plenty of them. Your system is obviously configured for graphics whereas mine is configured for data acquisition and control. > >I haven't tried/bothered pulling boards yet. Note that the boards are >> not << marked MCPU, etc etc. > >I still need to find the keyboard / mouse for it before I can justify >spending any time trying to get it running, of course (anyone have an >image of what the keyboard and mouse look like so I know what to look >for?) I can look through the maintenance manual it should have a picture. You should be able to boot it using a terminal. According to the manual, when you're in the console mode press the interrupt switch and it sahould display "Hit return to prompt". Now this is where it gets interesting. It will not only detect which terminal you press the return on and make it the console device but it will aslo detect how many times you press return and set the baud rate accordingly! The exact rate depends on if you're using TTY 0, 1, or 2. Pressing return 3 times will get you 300 baud on any of them but other than that they all vary and according to the chart they can still give you up to four different rates for the same port and number or returns. But I don't understand why. Your best bet is to try it and see what you get. You should end up with a ">>>" prompt on the terminal. The control codes for the console appear to be the standard ^C. ^X, ^R, ^O etc etc. Not it said this this should happen when you're in the console mode. there's a setting in the NVRAM that controls this but I have no idea how you change it without the OS running. IF you were running the Unix OS you can type "reboot -h" to change it. Joe > >cheers > >Jules > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Nov 28 08:13:39 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: <0205ae144d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041128091339.0079c100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:31 AM 11/28/04 +0000, you wrote: >In message > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > >> In any case, my programmable calculators have real mass storage >> (including 3.5" floppies), 80 column video, decent printers, useful I/O, >> and so on. I use HP41s with IL and most of the peripherals... > >Heh. I've been toying with the idea of buying one of the TI programmable >graphics calculators (probably a TI-84). Anyone got one? Can they be made to >do RPN, hex->bin conversion, bitwise operations, etc.? >Failing that, anyone care to suggest a nice, (fairly) low-cost programmers' >calculator? I know at least one person is going to say "HP 16C", but I >haven't seen any around my neck of the woods for a while, and the ones I've >seen on Ebay seem to go for insane amounts. TI made a "programmers" calculator at one time. LED display IIRC. I doubt they still make it but you should be able to find one on E-bay and TIs usually go cheap. Joe From gordon at gjcp.net Sun Nov 28 08:31:05 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: Greenbar paper In-Reply-To: <10411281213.ZM1137@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <41A85E1F.1010000@gjcp.net> <10411281213.ZM1137@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <41A9E129.7080207@gjcp.net> Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Nov 27 2004, 10:59, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > >>I apologise if this question has been done to death, but is there >>anywhere in the UK I can get 14 7/8" greenbar paper? > > > Our library announced they had some to get rid of a few days ago. If > it's not been claimed I could get you some, but the boxes are heavy so > expect to pay quite a lot for shipping. > Can you get me the postcode? One of my mates runs up and down to Birmingham every week and can probably be persuaded to make a detour. Especially since I'm doing his wheelbearings for him next weekend... Gordon. From birs23 at zeelandnet.nl Sun Nov 28 09:37:48 2004 From: birs23 at zeelandnet.nl (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: Free : Centronics ribbons Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.0.20041128163620.026c96b0@pop.xs4all.nl> Free for postage a bunch of unused Centronics ribbons for the models 400, 455, 800, 855. Reorder number on the box is 44688116 Stefan. ------------------------------------------------------- http://www.oldcomputercollection.com From lbickley at bickleywest.com Sun Nov 28 09:50:12 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article In-Reply-To: <10411281231.ZM1148@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <200411271301.09760.lbickley@bickleywest.com> <10411281231.ZM1148@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200411280750.12501.lbickley@bickleywest.com> On Sunday 28 November 2004 04:31, Pete Turnbull wrote: > That's a nice collection, especially the second Onyx. FDDI, too (I > have FDDI on my Origin and two Indys and an FDDI-ATM bridge but > unfortunately the Indys are SAS devices so it doesn't make a proper > ring). Thanks, regarding the collection. It's taken a lot of years to put it together!!! My Onyx is linked to a Sun NFS/DNS server which unfortunately has a SAS FDDI device - so my FDDI setup does not make a proper ring either. Sigh... I'm on the lookout for a FDDI switch with both dual and single capability - but so far haven't stumbled across one for a price I'm willing to pay... Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From rcini at optonline.net Sun Nov 28 10:12:40 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: MOS 6545 Application Notes Message-ID: <003801c4d565$16699d50$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Hi: Someone contacted me and asked if I had ever seen an "application notes" document for the MOS 6545 CRT controller chip. I don't have it; all that I have is the data sheet. If anyone has this, please let me know. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From dr.ido at bigpond.net.au Sun Nov 28 11:18:02 2004 From: dr.ido at bigpond.net.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: "Programmers" Calculator (was Re: ZX81 denigrated!) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041128091339.0079c100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <0205ae144d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20041129031802.0169fba0@pop-server> At 09:13 AM 11/28/04 -0500, you wrote: >At 01:31 AM 11/28/04 +0000, you wrote: >>In message >> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: >> >>> In any case, my programmable calculators have real mass storage >>> (including 3.5" floppies), 80 column video, decent printers, useful I/O, >>> and so on. I use HP41s with IL and most of the peripherals... >> >>Heh. I've been toying with the idea of buying one of the TI programmable >>graphics calculators (probably a TI-84). Anyone got one? Can they be made to >>do RPN, hex->bin conversion, bitwise operations, etc.? >>Failing that, anyone care to suggest a nice, (fairly) low-cost programmers' >>calculator? I know at least one person is going to say "HP 16C", but I >>haven't seen any around my neck of the woods for a while, and the ones I've >>seen on Ebay seem to go for insane amounts. > > TI made a "programmers" calculator at one time. LED display IIRC. I >doubt they still make it but you should be able to find one on E-bay and >TIs usually go cheap. They made an LCD version as well, I have one somewhere (not that I'm likely to find it anytime soon). From memory it's a variant of the TI-55mk2. If you want something cheaper still from memory the casio fx-100d has hex, octal, binary and some logic functions. There shouldn't be any trouble finding one. At least around here they were the standard "high school" calculator before the graphic calcs came along. From at258 at osfn.org Sun Nov 28 11:59:00 2004 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: Masscomp computers? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041124081516.00921910@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: We've got one, with a n Eagle and some sort of tape, I think. I takes 2 cabinets, but we've never got around to playing with it, altrhough things have been progressing well at the arehouse, so we may look into it before long. On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Joe R. wrote: > At 12:47 PM 11/24/04 +0000, you wrote: > >On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 07:25 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > >> Does anyone on this list play with the Masscomp computers? > > > >I'm the only person I've ever seen ask about them on here :) > > > >They seem to be pretty much unknown. I haven't found the keyboard/mouse > >yet for the one at the museum, so seeing what state it's in is a long > >term project at present! It's also missing a castor, but that's the > >least of the problems ;) > > > > > >Andrew K. Bressen replied to me with the following info: > > > >/// > >Masscomp did indeed make multi-cpu machines, > > Yeap, each chassis can have up to four CPU cards. I think the dual > chasssis machines could have up to eight but I'd have to check on that. > > > > >and also had an os called RTU (Real Time Unix). > > Yeap, I just sent that manual to Al K. I have at least three other > manuals here. > > > >They also had another unix called, I think, OS/32. > >I don't know which one was used by the multiprocessor boxes. > >I think the CPUs were mostly 68k's, > > The CPU in mine is 68020. It's card looks similar to Multibus but is > longer and has different connector. (I'll post pictures later.) It plugs > into the SMI bus. There's also a Multibus chassis in them for the IO cards > AND there's also STD+ card sockets in them for data acquisition cards. STD+ > is an enhancment of the regular STD bus. Some of them also had VME sockets! > The use of four different busses really surprised me. > > > >system bus might have been multibus. > > > >They had early successes as graphics/cad workstations, > >so yes they had mice. > > Some did, some didn't. Some only used termials but others had graphics > capabilities. I think mine all just used terminals. > > > Masscomp was bought by Concurrent, > >so there used to be some info on the concurrent users > >group web pages at www.ccuruser.org. That seems gone now, > >but archive.org might help you dig up some old stuff there. > > There'll be lots more there soon! > > > > > >I used to help run one at the Columbia U CS dept; I remember that the > >ethernet card had an 80186 that the OS downloaded a network stack to. > > It uses an Excelan EXOS 201 Intelligent Multibus Ethernet Controller. I > have manuals for it. One of them has already gone to Al. > > > > >I seem to recall a hardcoded 14 or 15-hop limit on the IP stack on the > >version we had, which confused us for a while when we wondered why the > >machine would talk to some machines but not others. > > > >I believe the owner of vitriol.com may still have a number of > >operational or nearly-operational masscomps. > > I'll check and see if they want some more. These are too neat to destroy. > > Joe > > >/// > > > > -- M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From stephane.tsacas at gmail.com Sun Nov 28 12:26:27 2004 From: stephane.tsacas at gmail.com (Stephane Tsacas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041118194505.00bcaec8@pop.hccnet.nl> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20041118194505.00bcaec8@pop.hccnet.nl> Message-ID: http://netbsd.org/Ports/vax/ and probably BSD 4.3/4.4 (http://ifctfvax.harhan.org/Quasijarus/) should provide some kind of bootable media which will check the hardware at boot time telling you more about the status of your machine. Stephane On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 20:00:04 +0100, Jeroen van Hengstum wrote: > Recently I got a VAX 11/725, a small model VAX that was produced around 1983. > I intend to try to boot this machine again after many years. > > - Does anyone have a 11/725? > - Does anyone have 11/725 related documentation? > - How do you check in a few steps with this computer whether it is still functioning properly? > > Thanks, > Jeroen From swtpc6800 at comcast.net Sun Nov 28 12:36:53 2004 From: swtpc6800 at comcast.net (Michael Holley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: MOS 6545 Application Notes References: <200411281800.iASI09jg042967@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000301c4d579$3ed1c330$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> Rich, I have a Synertek SY6545 CRT Controller applications note (AN3 July 1980). It is about 24 pages, I can scan it tomorrow. Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley > > Someone contacted me and asked if I had ever seen an "application > notes" document for the MOS 6545 CRT controller chip. I don't have it; all > that I have is the data sheet. > > If anyone has this, please let me know. Thanks. > > Rich > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 28 12:21:45 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: "Programmers" Calculator (was Re: ZX81 denigrated!) In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20041129031802.0169fba0@pop-server> from "Dr. Ido" at Nov 29, 4 03:18:02 am Message-ID: > >>Heh. I've been toying with the idea of buying one of the TI programmable > >>graphics calculators (probably a TI-84). Anyone got one? Can they be made to > >>do RPN, hex->bin conversion, bitwise operations, etc.? > >>Failing that, anyone care to suggest a nice, (fairly) low-cost programmers' > >>calculator? I know at least one person is going to say "HP 16C", but I > >>haven't seen any around my neck of the woods for a while, and the ones I've > >>seen on Ebay seem to go for insane amounts. [...] > If you want something cheaper still from memory the casio fx-100d has hex, > octal, binary and some logic functions. There shouldn't be any trouble > finding one. At least around here they were the standard "high school" > calculator before the graphic calcs came along. You might also consider an HP48 (or an HP28 if you can live without any way to back yp your programs and data -- the 48 has an RS232 port, and Kermit in ROM...). They're not that expensive second-hand (a lot cheaper than a 16C anyway), they can handle hex/binary/octal numbers up to 64 bits long, have the normal bitwise logic functions nad shifts/rotates. They do not have the floating point binary mode of the 16C, though. The 48 is a pretty nice calculator too, I really like the programming language (RPL). It's stack based, and you can push _anything_ onto the stack -- real numbers, complex numbers, arrays, lists, strings, even programs (!), and then operate on them. There's also the 49G. The keyboard is horrible, but the firmware, now that they've got the bugs out, is rather nice. Just about all the 48 features + an assembler (!), systemRPL compiler, big integers (think of working out 100! and getting _all_ the digits!), exact mode (1/2 + 1/3 evaulates to 5/6, square root of 8 evalutes to 2 * sqrt(2), all displayed symbollically), and so on. Alas the 49G+ is unusable for me since they replaced the useful RS232 port with that Useless Serial Botch thingy.... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 28 12:14:37 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: <10411281249.ZM1158@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Nov 28, 4 12:49:47 pm Message-ID: > Yes, I would agree. I still keep mine, though I've hardly ever used > it. I'm keeping mine too (although I only ever powered it up once to check it was working...). It is a significant UK home computer. But the reason I bought it was to get the Philips 'Pocket Portable' compact cassette recorder that was used with it. It was one of the first ccompact assette recorders, and I happen to like Philips stuff anyway... -tony From rcini at optonline.net Sun Nov 28 12:58:45 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: MOS 6545 Application Notes In-Reply-To: <000301c4d579$3ed1c330$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> Message-ID: <004301c4d57c$49a704c0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Mike: Thanks a lot. I'd appreciate that. Rich -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Michael Holley Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 1:37 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: MOS 6545 Application Notes Rich, I have a Synertek SY6545 CRT Controller applications note (AN3 July 1980). It is about 24 pages, I can scan it tomorrow. Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley > > Someone contacted me and asked if I had ever seen an "application > notes" document for the MOS 6545 CRT controller chip. I don't have it; all > that I have is the data sheet. > > If anyone has this, please let me know. Thanks. > > Rich > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Nov 28 13:32:00 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: Greenbar paper In-Reply-To: Gordon JC Pearce "Re: Greenbar paper" (Nov 28, 14:31) References: <41A85E1F.1010000@gjcp.net> <10411281213.ZM1137@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <41A9E129.7080207@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <10411281931.ZM2006@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 28 2004, 14:31, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Our library announced they had some to get rid of a few days ago. If > > it's not been claimed I could get you some, but the boxes are heavy so > > expect to pay quite a lot for shipping. > > > Can you get me the postcode? One of my mates runs up and down to > Birmingham every week and can probably be persuaded to make a detour. > Especially since I'm doing his wheelbearings for him next weekend... It would be a sizeable detour, from Brimingham to York. The postcode is YO10 5DD, and if he has satnav, he'd be looking for Grid Ref SE 622 506 or 53? 56.9' north (53.9477?), 1? 3.1' west (-1.0523?). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 28 13:33:28 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: HP Paintjet stepper motor driver IC Message-ID: I've got an HP Paintjet printer on the bench (this is on-topic, it seems to have been made in 1986 or so). I've figured out most of it (even the PSU section with a complex custom DIL resistor pack), but I can't indentify the driver chip for the linefeed motor, which is a 4-input unipolar stepper motor. Anyway, the driver chip is marked 1820-4864 (too late for my equivalents list). It would seem to be a quad power driver chip rather than a stepprr motor controller, as it takes in 4 bits from one of the microocntroller ports. The pins, as I've traced them seem to be : 1 Input 2 +5V 3 Output 4 N/C 5 Input 6 +5V 7 Output 8 Ground 9 Clamp 10 Output 11 Input 12 +5V 13 Output 14 Input 15 +5V 16 +5V It's a normal 16 pin DIL package (no heatsink tabs or anything). I usspect, without prood, that it's actually 4 separate stages, AND or NAND functionality, : 1 & 2 -> 3, 5 * 6 -> 7, 12 & 11 -> 10, 15 & 14 -> 13 Does that pinout ring any bells with anyone? It's not any of the chips in my TI Interface Databook.. -tony From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Sun Nov 28 13:40:28 2004 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20041118194505.00bcaec8@pop.hccnet.nl> Message-ID: <003d01c4d582$1dae1830$3a92a8c0@maggie> I have one. it's a big paperweight without the microcode tape.. the 725 was a cab with an integreated internal/etc rc25 combo. memory is very limited . your tape drive wheel may be mush with age, so try to check it before sacrificing your ony boot tape ;0 h ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephane Tsacas" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 1:26 PM Subject: Re: VAX 11/725 > http://netbsd.org/Ports/vax/ > and probably BSD 4.3/4.4 (http://ifctfvax.harhan.org/Quasijarus/) > should provide some kind of bootable media which will check the > hardware at boot time telling you more about the status of your > machine. > Stephane > > On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 20:00:04 +0100, Jeroen van Hengstum > wrote: > > Recently I got a VAX 11/725, a small model VAX that was produced around 1983. > > I intend to try to boot this machine again after many years. > > > > - Does anyone have a 11/725? > > - Does anyone have 11/725 related documentation? > > - How do you check in a few steps with this computer whether it is still functioning properly? > > > > Thanks, > > Jeroen > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Nov 28 13:41:29 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article In-Reply-To: Lyle Bickley "Re: Wired running SGI Article" (Nov 28, 7:50) References: <200411271301.09760.lbickley@bickleywest.com> <10411281231.ZM1148@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200411280750.12501.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: <10411281941.ZM2010@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 28 2004, 7:50, Lyle Bickley wrote: > My Onyx is linked to a Sun NFS/DNS server which unfortunately has a SAS FDDI > device - so my FDDI setup does not make a proper ring either. Sigh... > > I'm on the lookout for a FDDI switch with both dual and single capability - > but so far haven't stumbled across one for a price I'm willing to pay... If I find anything, I'll let you know. I was disgusted to discover, a couple of years ago, that our Chemistry Department threw out several nice FDDI switches about a year or two previously, because they thought nobody would want FDDI any more :-( This statement came from the guy who gave me my first Indigo (and a few other machines, at other times)! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From tpeters at mixcom.com Sun Nov 28 13:48:17 2004 From: tpeters at mixcom.com (Tom Peters) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041128091339.0079c100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <0205ae144d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041128133831.00b589c0@localhost> I had a TI Programmer LED model. It died a horrible death. I don't know what became of it. I have the model that replaced it, a TI Programmer II, an LCD model. It has number keys with binary representations ghosted over the keys, CE, XOR, AND, OR to the left of the numbers, oh heck: ON/C DEC HEX OCT K OFF STO RCL SUM ( ) SHF D E F / (<--divide symbol) 1'sC A B C X OR 7 8 9 - AND 4 5 6 + XOR 1 2 3 CE 0 . +/- = I used to use this thing all the time. I really should get some batteries for it. I need a pair of Varta V13GA or similar. At 09:13 AM 11/28/2004 -0500, you wrote: >At 01:31 AM 11/28/04 +0000, you wrote: > >In message > > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > > >> In any case, my programmable calculators have real mass storage > >> (including 3.5" floppies), 80 column video, decent printers, useful I/O, > >> and so on. I use HP41s with IL and most of the peripherals... > > > >Heh. I've been toying with the idea of buying one of the TI programmable > >graphics calculators (probably a TI-84). Anyone got one? Can they be made to > >do RPN, hex->bin conversion, bitwise operations, etc.? > >Failing that, anyone care to suggest a nice, (fairly) low-cost programmers' > >calculator? I know at least one person is going to say "HP 16C", but I > >haven't seen any around my neck of the woods for a while, and the ones I've > >seen on Ebay seem to go for insane amounts. > > TI made a "programmers" calculator at one time. LED display IIRC. I >doubt they still make it but you should be able to find one on E-bay and >TIs usually go cheap. > > Joe [Philosophy] "People can and will do things that no one could possibly believe anyone would do. For examples look at most of human history or the alt.sex.* hierarchy." --Ken Boucher on human stupidity in sci.nanotech --... ...-- -.. . -. ----. --.- --.- -... tpeters@nospam.mixcom.com (remove "nospam") N9QQB (amateur radio) "HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB ADDRESS http//www.mixweb.com/tpeters 43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square EN53wc WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, Cisco Certified CCNA From acme at gbronline.com Sun Nov 28 14:13:29 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: ZX96 (was: ZX81 denigrated!) References: <200411280911.JAA20605@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <018201c4d586$baf0e560$fa4f0945@acme> That link appears dead. The current ZX96 English-language page is at: http://www.fischerkai.de/zxteam/zx96_e.htm Comments? Glen 0/0 ----- Original Message ----- From: Stan Barr To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 4:11 AM Subject: Re: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) > Hi, > > Dave Dunfield said: > > > > I know guys who did a *LOT* with their ZX80 - they are a capable machine. But, > > their limitations make them look very poor when compared to other more traditional > > designs. To appreciate the ZX, you need to keep in mind that it is SUPPOSED to be > > a very minimal machine. It makes more sense as an alternative to a programmable > > calculator than as an alternative to a word processing or serious software > > development machine. > > > > > > Take at look at what these guys are doing, assuming they're still going: > http://home.freiepresse.de/befis/zx96_e.htm > > > -- > Cheers, > Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com > > The future was never like this! > > > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Nov 28 14:33:41 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: "Programmers" Calculator (was Re: ZX81 denigrated!) In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20041129031802.0169fba0@pop-server> References: <0205ae144d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <3.0.3.32.20041129031802.0169fba0@pop-server> Message-ID: In message <3.0.3.32.20041129031802.0169fba0@pop-server> "Dr. Ido" wrote: > They made an LCD version as well, I have one somewhere (not that I'm likely > to find it anytime soon). From memory it's a variant of the TI-55mk2. > > If you want something cheaper still from memory the casio fx-100d has hex, > octal, binary and some logic functions. There shouldn't be any trouble > finding one. At least around here they were the standard "high school" > calculator before the graphic calcs came along. At the moment, I'm looking at the TI-89 Titanium. Hex and binary conversion onboard, programmable in TI-BASIC, 68k assembler or C. 3.5MiB User FLASH, 180KiB User RAM, 160x100 greyscale LCD. Beats faffing around with Windoze Calculator, anyway. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... If at first you don't succeed, call it Ver 1.0 From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Sun Nov 28 15:02:45 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: <003d01c4d582$1dae1830$3a92a8c0@maggie> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20041118194505.00bcaec8@pop.hccnet.nl> <003d01c4d582$1dae1830$3a92a8c0@maggie> Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 14:40:28 -0500, Heinz Wolter wrote: > I have one. I have one too, the second one I've owned (my first one went AWOL while on loan to a former business associate). > it's a big paperweight without the microcode tape.. Agreed. > the 725 was a cab with an integreated internal/etc rc25 combo. > memory is very limited . It has the same backplane as the original model 11/730 - so IIRC, you _can_ stuff 5MB in it (even though DEC said 3MB was max). It's also possible to stick a Unibus tape cable in the slot the terminator normally goes to, and hang a BA-11 off the side. It's no longer compact and portable, but depending on what you want to do, it's really handy (the PSU is _not_ particularly beefy - I would hesitate to put high-draw cards on the internal backplane, like a UDA50 or DEUNA... in fact, I specifically sought out some 3rd party RAM that used a smaller number of a higher density chip than the standard 1MB boards from DEC, just to give myself some extra margin). > your tape drive wheel may be mush with age, > so try to check it before sacrificing your ony boot tape ;0 Good advice. TU58 capstans are notorious for turning to goo. -ethan From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Nov 28 15:20:37 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects)" (Nov 28, 18:14) References: Message-ID: <10411282120.ZM2161@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 28 2004, 18:14, Tony Duell wrote: > > Yes, I would agree. I still keep mine, though I've hardly ever used > > it. > > I'm keeping mine too (although I only ever powered it up once to check it > was working...). It is a significant UK home computer. But the reason I > bought it was to get the Philips 'Pocket Portable' compact cassette > recorder that was used with it. It was one of the first ccompact assette > recorders, and I happen to like Philips stuff anyway... Sounds like mine. The one I have is a replacement, but almost identical to the one my Dad bought in the mid-60s. It's about 115mm wide x 55mm thick x 200mm long; it has three DIN sockets on the left-hand side, and a red button for recording, a sort of joystick knob to control the tape motion, and a tiny level meter all on the top front panel. It takes five C-size cells. It originally came with a slightly larger leather carrying case that had space for the microphone and a power pack. Still doing sterling service on a BBC Micro and an Exidy Sorcerer, though it's about as old as their combined ages. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rcini at optonline.net Sun Nov 28 16:15:04 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: AIM thermal printer Message-ID: <000001c4d597$b6dfe140$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> If someone needs this, they should grab it: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5142464129&ssPageName=ADM E:B:SS:US:1 Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From allain at panix.com Sun Nov 28 13:29:36 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: FYI: identity theft References: <001001c4d257$7f32f450$5b01a8c0@flexpc><3.0.6.32.20041123215946.00a5b9f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><001001c4d257$7f32f450$5b01a8c0@flexpc> <3.0.6.32.20041124223236.009d3ea0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <018f01c4d59b$4033cbc0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Just an FYI from me that in the past 12 months I've received 65 Spammed attempts to have me update either my eBay or PayPal account information, to a fraudulent party of course. Some of these are damned clever and I'd never respond to one of them without reading the html source first. Basically I'm just backing up the adage to not respond to eMailed account change requests, ever, probably. John A. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Nov 28 16:58:24 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: Programmer's calculator (was: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041128133831.00b589c0@localhost> References: <0205ae144d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20041128133831.00b589c0@localhost> Message-ID: <20041128145456.Q94925@shell.lmi.net> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Tom Peters wrote: > I had a TI Programmer LED model. It died a horrible death. I don't know That is a really nice calculator, IFF you can plug it in. Battery life is negligible. > what became of it. I have the model that replaced it, a TI Programmer II, > an LCD model. The LCD model has great battery life. It's batteries often outlast the life of the keyboard. If you want something SMALLER, the Casio CFX40/CFX400 is fantastic IFF you have excellent eyesight and good desterity. From acme at gbronline.com Sun Nov 28 17:10:29 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) References: <031c01c4d4c7$fa6dd960$164f0945@acme> <4584.192.168.0.7.1101650144.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <01b901c4d59f$74f5d200$fa4f0945@acme> Multiple replies below. ----- Original Message ----- From: Witchy > It's quite simple - if it wasn't for the ZX80/81 I wouldn't be here now > doing this, nor would I have learned how to program, or have my museum. I > don't care that it's not a good hardware design or that it uses 'funny > BASIC' or that its maths might not be perfect.....it was only ukp70 and it > changed my life. Thanks, Adrian -- that's exactly the case for me as well. Every penny of my income since 1986 is directly attributable to the fact that I learned to program on a TS/1000. ----- Original Message ----- From: Cameron Kaiser > I find the T/S 1000 a unique machine (and tip of the hat to Glen who sent me > a version modded for composite output ... still working great!). I'm still a > Commodore freak for life, but you can't beat the form factor :) and it has a > fascinating and very hackable architecture. My thanks to you, too, Cameron. It *is* hackable, it *is* facinating, and -- how many years has it been since I sent you that thing? ;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Dunfield > CPU intensive video design - lose video when program running (or SSLLOOWW > mode for ZX81). Well, yeah, but when you consider that there isn't any video circuitry . . . > This also makes it highly dependant on the internal firmware, so that it's > tough to adapt other Z80 software systems to run on it. Can't deny that. > "RF only", and poorly shielded computer make it tough to get decent TV display. One transistor + one resistor + one monitor = rock solid display. > Limited internal RAM - and expansion very prone to connector problems/flakiness > (practically useless without an external keyboard so that you didn't have to > touch the machine while it was running). Scraps from the junk box and 30 minutes time will yield a cable which provides enough distance from the ZX81 to eliminate the "wobble" problem. > Slightly odd dialect of BASIC. Odd but highly functional. > Never did like the use of single-key "shift" keywords (although this is essential > given the keyboard) - also a matter of taste, so this cannot be considered a > "fault". Personal preference. > I know guys who did a *LOT* with their ZX80 - they are a capable machine. But, > their limitations make them look very poor when compared to other more traditional > designs. To appreciate the ZX, you need to keep in mind that it is SUPPOSED to be > a very minimal machine. It is minimalism in the extreme. > The only really bad thing about the ZX is that I think a lot of people bought it > expecting more than it had to offer... Whereas I got much more than my money's worth out of it, since the learning experience which began with my ZX81 continues to this day. ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Duell > The video system. It's a total kludge, about the worst I've seen An extremely clever design, wouldn't you say? > The cassette storage (I am used to _reliable_ data storage systems) Many inexpensive machines of the day used cassette storage. Several software solutions were developed which increased both the reliability and speed of ZX81 cassette i/o (from 300 to 4800 baud). > The BASIC. BASIC is not my favourite language at the best of times, this > versions is one of the worst, though Lots of great Z80 assemblers out there. > The expansion connector (the physical form of it, the fact that if the > RAMpack wobbles, the machine crashes). See reference to junk box above. > The ULA. I dislike hardware I can't hack, modify or repair. Granted. The ULA is truly a black box. > For the time, it was cheap, and therefore sold well. Nowadays there are > many, many, nicer machines available for less money than a second-hand > ZX81... Umm, considering that you can easily buy a ZX81 for US$10 (if you can't find one for free) . . . Lots of people today use them for robotics controllers and other "down and dirty" applications where no frills are required. With the onboard BASIC and easy access to the Z80 bus, it makes sense. Thanks to all for a pleasant discussion. Glen 0/0 From vcf at siconic.com Sun Nov 28 17:18:53 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: FYI: identity theft In-Reply-To: <018f01c4d59b$4033cbc0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, John Allain wrote: > Just an FYI from me that in the past 12 months I've received 65 Spammed > attempts to have me update either my eBay or PayPal account information, > to a fraudulent party of course. Some of these are damned clever and I'd > never respond to one of them without reading the html source first. > Basically I'm just backing up the adage to not respond to eMailed account > change requests, ever, probably. I generally ignore them. Or if not, I certainly don't use the link supplied in the e-mail. I go to the "front door" and log in regular-like, and then do whatever update might be necessary. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Nov 28 17:23:35 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: FYI: identity theft In-Reply-To: References: <018f01c4d59b$4033cbc0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041128172128.055ea930@pc> At 05:18 PM 11/28/2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >I generally ignore them. Or if not, I certainly don't use the link >supplied in the e-mail. I go to the "front door" and log in >regular-like, and then do whatever update might be necessary. If you want to be truly pro-active, you can forward the email (with headers) to the abuse address usually listed on the home page of any company that's experiencing phishing attacks. You can also 'cc' the ISP that originated the spam. If may be drops in the bucket, but it's the only way to try to remind ISPs of what's happening on their networks. - John From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 28 18:18:53 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: <10411282120.ZM2161@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Nov 28, 4 09:20:37 pm Message-ID: > > was working...). It is a significant UK home computer. But the reason > I > > bought it was to get the Philips 'Pocket Portable' compact cassette > > recorder that was used with it. It was one of the first ccompact > assette > > recorders, and I happen to like Philips stuff anyway... > > Sounds like mine. The one I have is a replacement, but almost > identical to the one my Dad bought in the mid-60s. It's about 115mm > wide x 55mm thick x 200mm long; it has three DIN sockets on the That sounds like the one. IIRC the very first model only had 2 sockets -- the extension speaker socket came later. > left-hand side, and a red button for recording, a sort of joystick knob > to control the tape motion, and a tiny level meter all on the top front > panel. It takes five C-size cells. It originally came with a slightly Yes. You could also feed in 7.5V through one of the sockets -- it was a '240 degree' DIN socket used for external power, remote control, and monitoring earphone. One thing I must do is make a little adapter with a power connector and a remote control socket wired to a suitable plug. > larger leather carrying case that had space for the microphone and a I think the case for mine takes the machine only with a seprate plastic 'tube' to carry the microphone. > power pack. Still doing sterling service on a BBC Micro and an Exidy > Sorcerer, though it's about as old as their combined ages. Ah, I was wondering if it would work with a Beeb... Mine alsoe needs new drive belts, but otherwise is still operational. I have the schematic from the appropriate year of 'Radio and Television Servicing', although sometimes oen was folded up inside the machine anyway. -tony From wacarder at usit.net Sun Nov 28 18:56:32 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: ASR-33 / PDP-11 question Message-ID: Ok, I need to call in the experts. I have had much success lately in getting my PDP-11/34 system hooked up to multiple peripherals, running RSTS/E V7. I have RL02, RK05, multiple VT52s, LA36, VT100 all working running timesharing, terminals all connected via EIA DZ11. I added a 20mA DZ11, which is recognized by RSTS, and it uses 8 more KB numbers, with 8 less "unrecognized devices". The EIA DZ11 uses KB3 through KB10. I have configured the lines that I'm using so that the terminal characteristics are set properly by $TTYSET to match the terminal types when the system starts. The 20mA DZ11 uses KB11 through KB18. I want to connect my ASR-33 to the second terminal connector on the distribution panel, therefore it should be KB12 to RSTS. My problem is that I am now attempting to connect my ASR-33, which works just fine is local mode. I am using phone wire, connecting wires from the DZ11 connectors 1,2,3, and 4 to connectors 3,4,6,and 7 respectively on the ASR33 terminal strip. My info tells me that: DZ11 1 = Receive + = ASR33 7 DZ11 2 = Receive - = ASR33 6 DZ11 3 = Transmit - = ASR33 3 DZ11 4 = Transmit + = ASR33 4 Something must be working right because if the 11/34 is not on and the ASR33 is turned on in "online" mode, it sits there and "clicks" repeatedly. However, it stops this clicking when the 11/34 is powered on. I checked the lines and there is a 20mA +/- current on the lines. The problem is that when I type on the ASR33, it does not echo, and when I use RSTS to send characters to the ASR 33, it does not respond. This ASR33 works perfectly in local mode. Anyone on the list have a clue what's wrong before I dig deeper? Is there something obvious that I've done wrong? The ASR33 is supposed to be working. I have configured the ASR33 on KB12 to 110 baud using $TTYSET, but no luck. Just to be sure, I set all 8 KBs, KB11-KB18 to use ASR33 terminal chracteristics. Help would be much appreciated. Ashley From pcw at mesanet.com Sun Nov 28 20:30:30 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: Programmer's calculator (was: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: <20041128145456.Q94925@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Tom Peters wrote: > > I had a TI Programmer LED model. It died a horrible death. I don't know > > That is a really nice calculator, IFF you can plug it in. > Battery life is negligible. I've heard that before and its not true, at least with the model I have. I get around 1.5 to 2 years out of one 9V battery in mine, always on my desk, used every couple of days. It does turn itself off after a short period of inactivity (1 minute or so - first rotating decimal point pattern then off) > > > what became of it. I have the model that replaced it, a TI Programmer II, > > an LCD model. > > The LCD model has great battery life. It's batteries often > outlast the life of the keyboard. > > > If you want something SMALLER, the Casio CFX40/CFX400 is > fantastic IFF you have excellent eyesight and good desterity. > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Nov 28 20:41:34 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: Programmer's calculator (was: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041128183758.D1557@shell.lmi.net> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > > On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Tom Peters wrote: > > > I had a TI Programmer LED model. It died a horrible death. I don't know > > That is a really nice calculator, IFF you can plug it in. > > Battery life is negligible. > I've heard that before and its not true, at least with the model I have. I get > around 1.5 to 2 years out of one 9V battery in mine, always on my desk, used > every couple of days. It does turn itself off after a short period of > inactivity (1 minute or so - first rotating decimal point pattern then off) It certainly IS "TRUE"! The battery life of THREE that I have had has always been HOURS, NOT YEARS. OTOH, the LCD model gives years on batteries. > > > what became of it. I have the model that replaced it, a TI Programmer II, > > > an LCD model. > > The LCD model has great battery life. It's batteries often > > outlast the life of the keyboard. > > If you want something SMALLER, the Casio CFX40/CFX400 is > > fantastic IFF you have excellent eyesight and good desterity. > Peter Wallace > Mesa Electronics From rcini at optonline.net Sun Nov 28 20:46:56 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: Significant finds Message-ID: <000701c4d5bd$b1421610$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Hi: A gentleman in Arizona contacted me about divesting himself of his S100 stuff, including most of my missing BYTE magazines (and 2 copies of Issue #1), the entire run of Micro Cornucopia (which I haven't received yet), a few Kilobauds and Interface Ages. He has also sent me a SSM VB1B video board, a Computer Systems Inc. Clock/Calendar board, an IMS PIC-8 Rev 3 interface board and a Cromemco Dazzler board set. Supposedly there's lots more, including tons of software on 8" disks and two complete S100 systems. Back to the Micro Cornucopia. I've heard of the name, but what was the focus of it? Regarding my BYTE collection, with these additional issues, I have nearly a complete set from 9/75 through 1/88. So far, my "interesting article" database has about 700 entries. At some point, I will make this available on my Web site and if someone needs an article reprint, I can do that. I thought I'd mention the issues of BYTE I'm still missing in case anyone has dupes: most of 1976 (except 1, 3, 4), 7/77, 6/80, 2/82, 1/86, and 3/86. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From pcw at mesanet.com Sun Nov 28 20:48:52 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: Programmer's calculator (was: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: <20041128183758.D1557@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Tom Peters wrote: > > > > I had a TI Programmer LED model. It died a horrible death. I don't know > > > That is a really nice calculator, IFF you can plug it in. > > > Battery life is negligible. > > I've heard that before and its not true, at least with the model I have. I get > > around 1.5 to 2 years out of one 9V battery in mine, always on my desk, used > > every couple of days. It does turn itself off after a short period of > > inactivity (1 minute or so - first rotating decimal point pattern then off) > > It certainly IS "TRUE"! > The battery life of THREE that I have had has always been HOURS, NOT > YEARS. > > OTOH, the LCD model gives years on batteries. Well my LED one gives > 1 Year use per battery, Did yours do the auto turnoff thing? > > > > > what became of it. I have the model that replaced it, a TI Programmer II, > > > > an LCD model. > > > The LCD model has great battery life. It's batteries often > > > outlast the life of the keyboard. > > > If you want something SMALLER, the Casio CFX40/CFX400 is > > > fantastic IFF you have excellent eyesight and good desterity. > > Peter Wallace > > Mesa Electronics > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From tpeters at mixcom.com Sun Nov 28 20:50:51 2004 From: tpeters at mixcom.com (Tom Peters) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: Programmer's calculator (was: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: <20041128183758.D1557@shell.lmi.net> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041128205016.00b64848@localhost> Batteries in the TI LCD Programmer lasted years. But I haven't opened that drawer in YEARS. At 06:41 PM 11/28/2004 -0800, you wrote: >On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Tom Peters wrote: > > > > I had a TI Programmer LED model. It died a horrible death. I don't know > > > That is a really nice calculator, IFF you can plug it in. > > > Battery life is negligible. > > I've heard that before and its not true, at least with the model I > have. I get > > around 1.5 to 2 years out of one 9V battery in mine, always on my desk, > used > > every couple of days. It does turn itself off after a short period of > > inactivity (1 minute or so - first rotating decimal point pattern then off) > >It certainly IS "TRUE"! >The battery life of THREE that I have had has always been HOURS, NOT >YEARS. > >OTOH, the LCD model gives years on batteries. > > > > > > what became of it. I have the model that replaced it, a TI > Programmer II, > > > > an LCD model. > > > The LCD model has great battery life. It's batteries often > > > outlast the life of the keyboard. > > > If you want something SMALLER, the Casio CFX40/CFX400 is > > > fantastic IFF you have excellent eyesight and good desterity. > > Peter Wallace > > Mesa Electronics [PATRIOTISM] A great British writer once said that if he had to choose between betraying his country and betraying a friend he hoped he would have the decency to betray his country. --The Hipcrime Vocab by Chad C. Mulligan --... ...-- -.. . -. ----. --.- --.- -... tpeters@nospam.mixcom.com (remove "nospam") N9QQB (amateur radio) "HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB ADDRESS http//www.mixweb.com/tpeters 43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square EN53wc WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, Cisco Certified CCNA From aek at spies.com Sun Nov 28 21:00:54 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 Message-ID: <20041129030054.3F1E847F3@spies.com> I have one. it's a big paperweight without the microcode tape.. -- will these work with a tu58 simulation on a 725? http://colo.heeltoe.com/download/vax/ From tomj at wps.com Sun Nov 28 21:17:33 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: <200411272150.NAA17484@floodgap.com> References: <200411272150.NAA17484@floodgap.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Nov 2004, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > What's this love of the ZX81, which I regard as a postively horrible > > > machine. I'd not rip one apart, though, mainly because there's little of > > > use to raid from it... Oh it's a totally horrible machine -- that's why it's so great! It's pretty damn minimal, I recall my brother's '81 (kit) did some bad display glitch when it had to think really hard. It did a lot with little hardware. Not my cup of tea, but I can see how it's someone elses. Hell I drive Ramblers and AMC cars, no one likes them either. People in glass houses, something about stones. (BTW, I'm allegedly going to be on the History Channel's FULL THROTTLE TV show... 19 Dec... I'm the AMC/Rambler expert for one of those monster-garage type shows. I have NO IDEA what it's gonna look like...) From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Sun Nov 28 21:22:34 2004 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 References: <20041129030054.3F1E847F3@spies.com> Message-ID: <00ee01c4d5c2$ab264440$3a92a8c0@maggie> would you care to copy my tapes? I have boot tapes , some others (vms) rc25 packs and with vms on the internal disk.. tgen there's my 3x loaded 750s (my fave vaxes) that I can't afford to ship.. sitting in California .. regards h ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" To: Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 10:00 PM Subject: Re: VAX 11/725 > > I have one. it's a big paperweight without the microcode > tape.. > > -- > > will these work with a tu58 simulation on a 725? > > http://colo.heeltoe.com/download/vax/ > From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Sun Nov 28 21:33:01 2004 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 References: <20041129030054.3F1E847F3@spies.com> Message-ID: <012701c4d5c4$20fdb260$3a92a8c0@maggie> I assume so! ;)...just a normal tu58 on the 725 no? ah.. I miss unibus vaxen,, qbus was never quite the same.. -h > will these work with a tu58 simulation on a 725? > > http://colo.heeltoe.com/download/vax/ > From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Nov 28 21:39:42 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: <00ee01c4d5c2$ab264440$3a92a8c0@maggie> References: <20041129030054.3F1E847F3@spies.com> <00ee01c4d5c2$ab264440$3a92a8c0@maggie> Message-ID: As an overall FYI to the List, I've replied here: On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Heinz Wolter wrote: > would you care to copy my tapes? > I have boot tapes , some others (vms) > rc25 packs and with vms on the internal disk.. > tgen there's my 3x loaded 750s (my fave vaxes) > that I can't afford to ship.. sitting in California .. Not knowing your exact situation - I thought to mention that I have just recently shipped over 200 kilos (a Hammond BCV electric organ) to Copenhagen from Carson City, NV, USA - door-to-airport, for US$511.00 all-up. I used BAX Global. Also, I just last week sent 40 kilos to France, air-frieght, for much less than the USPS price. It came to $92 via Bax, the USPS wanted $140, for the same 7-10 day service, nor could they track it en route. Just an FYI.... I am in the process of arranging a comprehensive load for another Listmember going from California to Germany - maybe you could get involved with that, for at least one of your 750s.... Cheers John From vcf at siconic.com Sun Nov 28 22:17:39 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, John Lawson wrote: > Just an FYI.... I am in the process of arranging a comprehensive load > for another Listmember going from California to Germany - maybe you > could get involved with that, for at least one of your 750s.... I'm glad you brought this up...if anyone wants to send anything from California (Bay Area) to Germany (Muenchen) in the next few DAYS then please speak up soon (send private e-mail). There's a container going over very soon and it will have 3 pallets worth of space available. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From marvin at rain.org Mon Nov 29 01:02:47 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith Floppies Message-ID: <41AAC997.8F52BE97@rain.org> A 3 day listing for 30 Heath/Zenith floppy disks is on ebay at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5143525068 The current bid is $2.00. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Nov 28 17:34:53 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article In-Reply-To: <10411281226.ZM1143@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <002801c4d447$658a1050$192d1941@game> <10411271250.ZM29479@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20041127171717.6e85c06b.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <10411281226.ZM1143@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20041129003453.17b129f5.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 12:26:48 GMT Pete Turnbull wrote: [Indigo PSUs] > The PSUs are easy to repair. One of us tried to repair them. He has experience in these things but was not able to get them back to live. > I never liked the look of the Indigo^2 so I don't have any of those. I don't care much about the look. The R10k Impact is a bit limited in memory / bus bandwith and IO, but still a nice machine. > I'd like your Octane, though, if you ever get tired of it ;-) Well. I bought it (without PCI options and single head) about a year ago for 300,-EUR. R12k-300 (E)SI Octanes are still the "sweet spot". > :-) The O2K I helped look after in Computer Science was a 32 > processor unit and it had a graphics unit. Nothing like Onyx > graphics, but I would have liked that. To be onest: I don't have an application for that many CPUs. I need one or two faster CPUs, not several slower CPUs. Nevertheles an Onyx2 would be a nice machine for "personal workstation". ;-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Nov 29 02:29:05 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects)" (Nov 29, 0:18) References: Message-ID: <10411290829.ZM2760@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 29 2004, 0:18, Tony Duell wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Sounds like mine. The one I have is a replacement, but almost > > identical to the one my Dad bought in the mid-60s. It's about 115mm > > wide x 55mm thick x 200mm long; it has three DIN sockets on the > > > panel. It takes five C-size cells. It originally came with a slightly > > Yes. You could also feed in 7.5V through one of the sockets -- it was a > '240 degree' DIN socket used for external power, remote control, and > monitoring earphone. One thing I must do is make a little adapter with a > power connector and a remote control socket wired to a suitable plug. That's the one. I use that for power and remote from the Beeb. > Ah, I was wondering if it would work with a Beeb... Mine alsoe needs new > drive belts, but otherwise is still operational. I have the schematic > from the appropriate year of 'Radio and Television Servicing', although > sometimes oen was folded up inside the machine anyway. I had to replace the drive belt in mine a few years back. I got a belt from CPC for a few pence. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From unibus at gmail.com Mon Nov 29 05:12:42 2004 From: unibus at gmail.com (Unibus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: Programmer's calculator In-Reply-To: <200411290842.iAT8ejjn047259@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200411290842.iAT8ejjn047259@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: > >On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > > On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > > On Sun, 28 Nov 2004, Tom Peters wrote: > > > > > I had a TI Programmer LED model. It died a horrible death. I don't know > > > > That is a really nice calculator, IFF you can plug it in. > > > > Battery life is negligible. > > > I've heard that before and its not true, at least with the model I > > have. I get > > > around 1.5 to 2 years out of one 9V battery in mine, always on my desk, > > used > > > every couple of days. It does turn itself off after a short period of > > > inactivity (1 minute or so - first rotating decimal point pattern then off) > > > >It certainly IS "TRUE"! > >The battery life of THREE that I have had has always been HOURS, NOT > >YEARS. Can I point out that there are two battery pacs for the TI Programmer (LED version). Battery life with the rechargeable NiCad pac is woeful, about 2 months for me on a charge with modern aftermarket NiCads. The 9V Eveready alkaline battery that has been in the calculator all this year, hasn't died yet. I've had this calculator since new and never had any problems. Must admit the calculator doesn't get much use these days. > > > >OTOH, the LCD model gives years on batteries. > > > > > > > > > what became of it. I have the model that replaced it, a TI > > Programmer II, > > > > > an LCD model. > > > > The LCD model has great battery life. It's batteries often > > > > outlast the life of the keyboard. > > > > If you want something SMALLER, the Casio CFX40/CFX400 is > > > > fantastic IFF you have excellent eyesight and good desterity. > > > Peter Wallace From chenmel at earthlink.net Mon Nov 29 06:07:59 2004 From: chenmel at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:57 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041128133831.00b589c0@localhost> References: <0205ae144d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <3.0.6.32.20041128091339.0079c100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20041128133831.00b589c0@localhost> Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 13:48:17 -0600, you wrote: >I had a TI Programmer LED model. It died a horrible death. I don't know >what became of it. I have the model that replaced it, a TI Programmer II, >an LCD model. It has number keys with binary representations ghosted over >the keys, CE, XOR, AND, OR to the left of the numbers, oh heck: > ON/C > >DEC HEX OCT K OFF > >STO RCL SUM ( ) > >SHF D E F / (<--divide symbol) > >1'sC A B C X > >OR 7 8 9 - > >AND 4 5 6 + > >XOR 1 2 3 > >CE 0 . +/- = > >I used to use this thing all the time. I really should get some batteries >for it. I need a pair of Varta V13GA or similar. > > There is a sort of a programmer's calculator hidden in as one of the modes of the calculator built into my PalmOS-based Handspring Visor. It has the Hex/Binary/Octal/Dec modes and the logic and arithmetic functions of the classic Programmer's calculators. It's probably the 'default' calculator for all of the PalmOS (~3.0) devices from various vendors (including Palm, if you must) It is not anywhere as 'nice' an option as a classic 'real button' calculator, lacking real buttons (touchscreen mapped keyboard) but something that will do from time to time. And Visors and Palm PDAs of that vintage go fairly cheap on eBay these days, particular old and less 'glamorous' models with limited memory and greyscale/Black&White screens. From classiccmp at eco.li Mon Nov 29 06:29:26 2004 From: classiccmp at eco.li (Dan Kolb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: Santa, for Christmas I would like In-Reply-To: <1101578244.2588.11.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> References: <1101578244.2588.11.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> Message-ID: <20041129122926.GZ24802@hades.eco.li> On Sat, Nov 27, 2004 at 12:57:24PM -0500, james wrote: > Something blue and white and it says Data General on the front. If it > says MV it would be even nicer. > > Does anyone see these anymore? My brother was one of the developers of > AOS/VS and I would really like to restore one. They do exist. I picked up an MV2500 about 4 years ago from a University that had it standing in storage. A couple of the hard drives refused to run; fortunately the OS drive was still operational. I guess I should try and copy the drive data onto a spare disk in case it decides to fail, unless anyone knows where I can get some AOS/VS media from? Dan -- Save energy: be apathetic. From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Mon Nov 29 06:43:06 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: AIM thermal printer In-Reply-To: <000001c4d597$b6dfe140$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> References: <000001c4d597$b6dfe140$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 17:15:04 -0500, Richard A. Cini wrote: > If someone needs this, they should grab it: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5142464129&ssPageName=ADM > E:B:SS:US:1 I'm on it... thanks for the tip. -ethan From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Mon Nov 29 06:47:21 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: <20041129030054.3F1E847F3@spies.com> References: <20041129030054.3F1E847F3@spies.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 19:00:54 -0800 (PST), Al Kossow wrote: > will these work with a tu58 simulation on a 725? > > http://colo.heeltoe.com/download/vax/ I don't see why not. The 725 isn't expecting anything odd to come from its TU-58. -ethan From aek at spies.com Mon Nov 29 07:30:41 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: Santa, for Christmas I would like Message-ID: <20041129133041.7781D483F@spies.com> I guess I should try and copy the drive data onto a spare disk in case it decides to fail -- You should back up the software you have, assuming it WILL fail. -- anyone knows where I can get some AOS/VS media from? -- try bruce ray (bkr@wildharecomputers.com) From james at jdfogg.com Mon Nov 29 07:38:56 2004 From: james at jdfogg.com (james) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: Santa, for Christmas I would like In-Reply-To: <20041129122926.GZ24802@hades.eco.li> References: <1101578244.2588.11.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> <20041129122926.GZ24802@hades.eco.li> Message-ID: <1101735535.2007.1.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 07:29, Dan Kolb wrote: > On Sat, Nov 27, 2004 at 12:57:24PM -0500, james wrote: > > Something blue and white and it says Data General on the front. If it > > says MV it would be even nicer. > > > > Does anyone see these anymore? My brother was one of the developers of > > AOS/VS and I would really like to restore one. > > They do exist. I picked up an MV2500 about 4 years ago from a University that > had it standing in storage. A couple of the hard drives refused to run; > fortunately the OS drive was still operational. > > I guess I should try and copy the drive data onto a spare disk in case it > decides to fail, unless anyone knows where I can get some AOS/VS media from? My brother died about 10 years ago from a heart attack. Unfortunately I was living in the other end of the country and couldn't rescue his material. He had hundreds of tapes and manuals, including his documentation of source code for AOS/VS. I've been kicking myself since. From lbickley at bickleywest.com Mon Nov 29 09:52:08 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article In-Reply-To: <20041129003453.17b129f5.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <10411281226.ZM1143@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20041129003453.17b129f5.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <200411290752.08715.lbickley@bickleywest.com> On Sunday 28 November 2004 15:34, Jochen Kunz wrote: ---snip--- > To be honest: I don't have an application for that many CPUs. I need one > or two faster CPUs, not several slower CPUs. Nevertheles an Onyx2 would > be a nice machine for "personal workstation". ;-) I have found that an Onyx with four R10K 195MHz processors, 2GB of host memory and Infinite Reality Graphics with two Raster Memory cards is truly the "Sweet Spot". Performer will run in "real time" with beautiful anti-aliasing and texture mapping, etc. It's truly an incredible machine. (A similarly equipped Onyx2 would even be better ;-) I have a 2.6GHz Intel Pentium IV "game machine" with high end Nvidia graphics (plays "Far Cry" without any "jerkyness") - and in the many real world video benchmarks I've performed, the SGI IR beats the "game" machine hands down - in performance, visualization, smoothness, etc. OpenGL in silicon really helps :-) It's just hard to beat the SGI's video quality and speed - especially for multiscreen applications (my Onyx IR supports seven monitors - although I seldom use more than three at the same time)... Cheers, Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Mon Nov 29 09:48:25 2004 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: Santa, for Christmas I would like References: <1101578244.2588.11.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com><20041129122926.GZ24802@hades.eco.li> <1101735535.2007.1.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> Message-ID: <005801c4d62a$ee756ce0$d866bccc@newhare> G'day James - I tried to contact you off-list yesterday concerning our Data General preservation efforts and how we might be able to help you. Please let me know if you did not receive my e.mail... Bruce bkr@WildHareComputers.com ...preserving the Data General legacy: www.NovasAreForever.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "james" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 6:38 AM Subject: Re: Santa, for Christmas I would like > On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 07:29, Dan Kolb wrote: > > On Sat, Nov 27, 2004 at 12:57:24PM -0500, james wrote: > > > Something blue and white and it says Data General on the front. If it > > > says MV it would be even nicer. > > > > > > Does anyone see these anymore? My brother was one of the developers of > > > AOS/VS and I would really like to restore one. > > > > They do exist. I picked up an MV2500 about 4 years ago from a University that > > had it standing in storage. A couple of the hard drives refused to run; > > fortunately the OS drive was still operational. > > > > I guess I should try and copy the drive data onto a spare disk in case it > > decides to fail, unless anyone knows where I can get some AOS/VS media from? > > My brother died about 10 years ago from a heart attack. Unfortunately I > was living in the other end of the country and couldn't rescue his > material. He had hundreds of tapes and manuals, including his > documentation of source code for AOS/VS. > > I've been kicking myself since. > From james at jdfogg.com Mon Nov 29 10:36:19 2004 From: james at jdfogg.com (james) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: Santa, for Christmas I would like In-Reply-To: <005801c4d62a$ee756ce0$d866bccc@newhare> References: <1101578244.2588.11.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> <20041129122926.GZ24802@hades.eco.li> <1101735535.2007.1.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> <005801c4d62a$ee756ce0$d866bccc@newhare> Message-ID: <1101746179.2545.20.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 10:48, Bruce Ray wrote: > G'day James - > > I tried to contact you off-list yesterday concerning our Data General > preservation efforts and how we might be able to help you. Please let me > know if you did not receive my e.mail... > > > Bruce No, I don't believe I did get your email. Can you resend? From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Nov 29 12:54:06 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: Approaches to projects Message-ID: <200411291854.KAA04860@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Ethan Dicks" > >On Thu, Nov 25, 2004 at 01:26:04AM +0000, Philip Pemberton wrote: >> In message <200411250057.QAA03125@clulw009.amd.com> >> Aside from being a "better KIM"? ISTR it was basically a KIM with a few >> extras (oscilloscope output, a la the Poptronics Scopewriter) added. I don't >> think it used the mask-programmed RIOT chips either, unlike the KIM, which >> makes it (slightly) easier to fix if something goes wrong. > >It does not use mask-programmed RIOT chips... one of the reasons I'm happy >to have a SYM-1 - no unobtanium ingredients. > >-ethan Hi Ethan One can wire the 6532 and EPROM chip in place of the 6530. It does require a little mapping because the selects most likely won't be compatable but the rest should work. There is a fellow in France that is doing this for Pinball machines. Dwight From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Nov 29 13:08:30 2004 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: FYI: identity theft Message-ID: <99.526b9251.2edccdae@aol.com> I forward both Ebay and Paypal spoofs to spoof@ebay.com or spoof@paypal.com. they then check them out and notify me if they are fake or real. A couple of times I have forwarded regular traffic to the spoof notice and got a return email telling me it is not a spoof. I hope this helps them find the source. Paxton Astoria, OR From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Nov 29 13:20:23 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) Message-ID: <200411291920.LAA04941@clulw009.amd.com> >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk ---snip--- > >The expansion connector (the physical form of it, the fact that if the >RAMpack wobbles, the machine crashes). > Hi As I've stated in the past, put some DC#4 silicon grease on the edge connector and you won't have issues with the contacts. Dwight From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Nov 29 14:40:36 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Acard LVD-to-IDE Bridge Message-ID: <200411292040.iATKebIJ001008@onyx.spiritone.com> Has anyone played with the LVD SCSI to IDE bridges that Acard is selling now? I'm trying to figure out if they'll sync down to the speed of the SCSI bus that they're plugged into. I'm thinking about getting a SCSI-to-IDE bridge for my VMS system which currently uses UW-SCSI. If it will work, I'd just as soon buy a LVD bridge, as they're cheaper and will be better when I finally upgrade my VMS system. I'm tending to suspect they don't sync down, as they sell U-SCSI, UW-SCSI and U160 LVD SCSI models. Zane From kth at srv.net Mon Nov 29 14:42:05 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: Significant finds In-Reply-To: <000701c4d5bd$b1421610$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> References: <000701c4d5bd$b1421610$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Message-ID: <41AB899D.5050200@srv.net> Richard A. Cini wrote: > Back to the Micro Cornucopia. I've heard of the name, but what was >the focus of it? > > Mostly CP/M and Big Board based systems. Especially the Kaypro's. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Nov 29 16:50:42 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: VCF 7.0 Pictures Message-ID: <200411292250.OAA05019@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Wayne Smith" > >I have posted a few pictures taken during VCF 7.0 at >http://webpages.charter.net/jpepperman/VCF%207.0.html. > >-W > Hi Of course my exhibit wasn't even noticed or photographed. As usual Sellam gave me half a table and most just figured that I was part of the exhibit next to me ( North Star ). Since my machine was also a woodie, ( much rarer than a North star ) it just blend into the background. Maybe next year I'll be noticed. Dwight From tomj at wps.com Mon Nov 29 17:15:10 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: NECS (New England Computer Society) apparently defunct Message-ID: Just for the hell of it I googled the club I hung out with in the late 1970's or early 1980's, NECS. According to one reference (Springfield Mass. Library) their website was www.necs.org, which is now owned by one of those horrid 'buy this site' parasites. I can't even remember anyone's name! What a shame. Used to meet out near 128, meet then go to some local late-night restaurant. The club ran a BBS, ("NECS"...), how I got in touch with them in the first place. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 29 18:49:06 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: <10411290829.ZM2760@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Nov 29, 4 08:29:05 am Message-ID: > > Yes. You could also feed in 7.5V through one of the sockets -- it was > a > > '240 degree' DIN socket used for external power, remote control, and > > monitoring earphone. One thing I must do is make a little adapter > with a > > power connector and a remote control socket wired to a suitable plug. > > That's the one. I use that for power and remote from the Beeb. Philips used that connector on several of their cassette recorders -- and the DC input may well not be 7.5V in all cases... When I make the adapter I'll add a 3 position switch to it (the adapter), postiions being 'Always on'. 'Always off', 'Controlled by the remote cable). One of my Tandy cassette recorders, designed for home computer use, has such a switch, and it's useful. Now, this nect bit is very off-topic, but.... I've got a older Philips Reel-to_-Reel recoerder with a strange socket for the record player input. According to my shelf of schematics for such things, several other Philips-made tape recorders (sold also under the Cossor and Stella names had this connecotr, either on its own, or with a normal DIN socket wired in parallel. The connector has 5 flat pins in a line, arranged something like : | -- -- | -- There is no overall screening can. The pins are named p, q, r, s, t, every alternate pin is chassis ground, the other 2 being the 2 audio channels. According to the service manual for my machine, it's called an 'IEC socket' and I have the Philips part number for the socket and the mating plug. What I can't find, though, is any reference to the plug ever having been used. I can't find any mention of a record player fitted with said plug on the pickup cable. Has anyone ever come across it. > > > Ah, I was wondering if it would work with a Beeb... Mine alsoe needs > new > > drive belts, but otherwise is still operational. I have the schematic > > from the appropriate year of 'Radio and Television Servicing', > although > > sometimes oen was folded up inside the machine anyway. > > I had to replace the drive belt in mine a few years back. I got a belt > from CPC for a few pence. There are 2 belts in mine. The large one (which has completely died) which goes between the motot, capstan flywheel and reel drive pulley, and a little one in the reel drive mechanism. I was going to change both. I don't suppose you've got the CPC number for the belt you used, the CPC catalogue is almost impossible to obtain... -tony From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 29 19:27:52 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: VCF 7.0 Pictures In-Reply-To: <200411292250.OAA05019@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Nov 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Of course my exhibit wasn't even noticed or photographed. Well, *I* noticed you, and *I* photographed you (my gallery is still in the making). > As usual Sellam gave me half a table and most just figured You get what you ask for! If you want more space next year then all you need to do is just ask ;) > that I was part of the exhibit next to me ( North Star ). > Since my machine was also a woodie, ( much rarer than > a North star ) it just blend into the background. > Maybe next year I'll be noticed. You need a neon light perhaps to draw more attention :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From brad at heeltoe.com Mon Nov 29 19:51:54 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 28 Nov 2004 14:40:28 EST." <003d01c4d582$1dae1830$3a92a8c0@maggie> Message-ID: <200411300151.iAU1psMm026426@mwave.heeltoe.com> "Heinz Wolter" wrote: >I have one. it's a big paperweight without the microcode >tape.. the 725 was a cab with an integreated internal/etc rc25 combo. >memory is very limited . your tape drive wheel may be mush with age, >so try to check it before sacrificing your ony boot tape ;0 I would not bother with the boot tape. I'll bet $ the roller is mush. But if you really want to use it send me your address and I'll send you a few inches of norprene tubing which you can use to replace the roller. instead I'd connect the tu58 to a db-9 and run tu58sim on a pc running linux. I have a boot tape image which will boot quasijarus on a 730. I think that should work on a 725 also. That's how I boot my 730 all the time :-) works like a champ. And netbsd won't boot on a 725/730. Quasijarus will. I got close to fixing this at one point but decided Michael was right - bsd43 is the right tool for that job. netbsd is too big and bloated. You can boot bsd43 in 2mb of ram on a 730. -brad From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Mon Nov 29 20:33:52 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 Message-ID: <0411300233.AA02774@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Brad Parker wrote: > You can boot bsd43 in 2mb of ram on a 730. Thanks for checking this, it's good to hear that this is still the case with current 4.3BSD-Quasijarus. MS From james at jdfogg.com Mon Nov 29 21:10:21 2004 From: james at jdfogg.com (james) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: NECS (New England Computer Society) apparently defunct In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1101784221.3888.2.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 18:15, Tom Jennings wrote: > Just for the hell of it I googled the club I hung out with in > the late 1970's or early 1980's, NECS. According to one reference > (Springfield Mass. Library) their website was www.necs.org, which > is now owned by one of those horrid 'buy this site' parasites. Wasn't that an offshoot of the Boston Computer Society? I joined BCS shortly before they decided they weren't "usefull" anymore and folded. Their mission was to make computers commonplace and they felt the mission was accomplished. From news at computercollector.com Mon Nov 29 21:13:17 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: NECS (New England Computer Society) apparently defunct In-Reply-To: <1101784221.3888.2.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> Message-ID: <20041130031317.28980.qmail@web52803.mail.yahoo.com> Check out http://www.bostonusergroups.com --- james wrote: > On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 18:15, Tom Jennings wrote: > > Just for the hell of it I googled the club I hung out with in > > the late 1970's or early 1980's, NECS. According to one reference > > (Springfield Mass. Library) their website was www.necs.org, which > > is now owned by one of those horrid 'buy this site' parasites. > > Wasn't that an offshoot of the Boston Computer Society? I joined BCS > shortly before they decided they weren't "usefull" anymore and folded. > Their mission was to make computers commonplace and they felt the > mission was accomplished. > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 600 readers and counting! From spectre at floodgap.com Mon Nov 29 21:47:42 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: <200411300151.iAU1psMm026426@mwave.heeltoe.com> from Brad Parker at "Nov 29, 4 08:51:54 pm" Message-ID: <200411300347.TAA12804@floodgap.com> > And netbsd won't boot on a 725/730. Quasijarus will. I got close to > fixing this at one point but decided Michael was right - bsd43 is the > right tool for that job. netbsd is too big and bloated. > You can boot bsd43 in 2mb of ram on a 730. Amusing, since I got into NetBSD because I thought *Linux* was too big and bloated. (You can boot NetBSD/mac68k in 4MB of RAM on most 68K Macs -- just not that useful ;-) -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- MOVIE IDEA: Ferris Bueller's E-mail Signature ------------------------------ From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Nov 29 22:14:57 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: Phllips Logic Analyzer Manuals Message-ID: I have a set of operators manuals for the Phillips PM3551/10/30/50 and /70 logic analyzers (early 80s). One is in a binder, the other is just bound - a total of about 1 1/2 shelf-inches of information. Anyone need these for a couple of bucks plus shipping? William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Mon Nov 29 23:41:13 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: MSDos on a dial up ISP? Message-ID: <729F8902-4292-11D9-8CFB-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> How do you do that? From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Nov 30 00:19:57 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: MSDos on a dial up ISP? In-Reply-To: <729F8902-4292-11D9-8CFB-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041130011554.05193fd0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Ron Hudson may have mentioned these words: >How do you do that? Quick google search gave me these: http://www.freedos.org/freedos/news/technote/158.html http://www.fdisk.com/doslynx/ http://members.surfbest.net/wizard57m@surfbest.net/dos.htm http://www.dendarii.co.uk/FAQs/dos-apps.html I didn't review the links much (they seemed to have *quite* a bit of info on the subject) however, I did test the "Demon DOS Package" on the last link to see if the software was still available, and that link was still functional; at least some of the software mentioned on these pages can yet be had. HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | A new truth in advertising slogan sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | for MicroSoft: "We're not the oxy... zmerch@30below.com | ...in oxymoron!" From tomj at wps.com Tue Nov 30 01:23:35 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: NECS (New England Computer Society) apparently defunct In-Reply-To: <1101784221.3888.2.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> References: <1101784221.3888.2.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Nov 2004, james wrote: > Subject: Re: NECS (New England Computer Society) apparently defunct > > Wasn't that an offshoot of the Boston Computer Society? I joined BCS > shortly before they decided they weren't "usefull" anymore and folded. > Their mission was to make computers commonplace and they felt the > mission was accomplished. Huh. Coulda bin. I can't remember, or maybe I never knew. From tomj at wps.com Tue Nov 30 01:42:54 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: Burroughs Panaplex display data needed Message-ID: I recently acquired a virgin Burroughs Panaplex display, and can't find data for it. It's a 24-line, 40-column display, tube only. Character matrixes are 5w x 9h (!) so it'll do decenders. The only markings are a simple "N-0008" on one edge. It's got double staggered rows of pins on all four sides. The whole thing is about 8" x 10". I know how (on paper) to drive panaplex displays (it's nasty) and would love to work up a nice display with this thing if I can find pinout data. Any ideas? From dave at naffnet.org.uk Tue Nov 30 01:43:22 2004 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41AC249A.3050703@naffnet.org.uk> Tony Duell wrote: >Now, this nect bit is very off-topic, but.... I've got a older Philips >Reel-to_-Reel recoerder with a strange socket for the record player >input. According to my shelf of schematics for such things, several other >Philips-made tape recorders (sold also under the Cossor and Stella names >had this connecotr, either on its own, or with a normal DIN socket wired >in parallel. The connector has 5 flat pins in a line, arranged something >like : > > | -- -- | -- > >There is no overall screening can. The pins are named p, q, r, s, t, >every alternate pin is chassis ground, the other 2 being the 2 audio >channels. According to the service manual for my machine, it's called an >'IEC socket' and I have the Philips part number for the socket and the >mating plug. > >What I can't find, though, is any reference to the plug ever having been >used. I can't find any mention of a record player fitted with said plug >on the pickup cable. Has anyone ever come across it. > Have you tried asking on the UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration website? They have a vintage tape recorder section at http://www.vintage-radio.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=tape_recorder Cheers, Dave. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Nov 30 02:08:35 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects)" (Nov 30, 0:49) References: Message-ID: <10411300808.ZM5109@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 30 2004, 0:49, Tony Duell wrote: > When I make the adapter I'll add a 3 position switch to it (the adapter), > postiions being 'Always on'. 'Always off', 'Controlled by the remote > cable). One of my Tandy cassette recorders, designed for home computer > use, has such a switch, and it's useful. I made a new DIN plug with the power lead entering via the side, and a 2.5mm jack socket on the end to control the motor. When the 2.5mm plug isn't fitted, the motor is on. No idea about the IEC plug/socket with flat pins, though. > > I had to replace the drive belt in mine a few years back. I got a belt > > from CPC for a few pence. > > There are 2 belts in mine. The large one (which has completely died) > which goes between the motot, capstan flywheel and reel drive pulley, and > a little one in the reel drive mechanism. I was going to change both. I > don't suppose you've got the CPC number for the belt you used, the CPC > catalogue is almost impossible to obtain... Hmm... I vaguely recall two belts as well, but I don't have a record of the part numbers. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From fernande at internet1.net Tue Nov 30 02:48:10 2004 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: MSDos on a dial up ISP? In-Reply-To: <729F8902-4292-11D9-8CFB-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> References: <729F8902-4292-11D9-8CFB-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <41AC33CA.9070304@internet1.net> That depends on what you want to do. If text email and usenet is all, then I'd suggest Nettamer. Another good program is called Arachne, it will do email and usent, plus the web, and more. Both programs contain there own brand of connection software. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Ron Hudson wrote: > How do you do that? > > > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Nov 30 06:24:32 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: VCF 7.0 Pictures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1101817472.30834.15.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 17:27 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 29 Nov 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > > Of course my exhibit wasn't even noticed or photographed. > > Well, *I* noticed you, and *I* photographed you (my gallery is still in > the making). > > > As usual Sellam gave me half a table and most just figured > > You get what you ask for! If you want more space next year then all you > need to do is just ask ;) Heh, we found that with the CGE show (first show we'd done) - we were allocated five tables and thought we'd have trouble filling them, and in the end we needed seven. Main lesson learned for next year's show is that you can never have enough display material to go on the big screens behind the tables, we were somewhat lacking this time around (and of course anything put up there needs to be big as the public end up a fair distance away from it) Oh, and keep a roll of tape handy to prop the case of your Domesday system open when it starts overheating ;) Definitely need to get Spacewar up and running for next year's show... cheers Jules From djg at drs-c4i.com Tue Nov 30 07:01:47 2004 From: djg at drs-c4i.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: Calcomp 1039 plotter in UK Message-ID: <200411301301.iAUD1lr02495@drs-c4i.com> If anybody is interested email plotter@pdp8.net which will forward to the plotter owner (spam protection). Email I got offering it: Got your details from the internet. I have an old Calcomp 1039 plotter which I need to dispose of. I note that you may be interested in PDP bits but don't know if this is the sort of beast you may want! It certainly used to be connected to a PDP in the distant past. It has most of the original accessories in their large & small black boxes plus umpteen rolls of media If you want any info please feel free to call me on 01727 875191. leave a voice mail if absent. Or if you know of anyone else who may want such a thing rather than being destined for the local tip! Regards Graham Simms In Hertfordshire. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Nov 30 07:29:29 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: Calcomp 1039 plotter in UK In-Reply-To: <200411301301.iAUD1lr02495@drs-c4i.com> References: <200411301301.iAUD1lr02495@drs-c4i.com> Message-ID: <1101821369.30853.23.camel@weka.localdomain> > Got your details from the internet. I have an old Calcomp 1039 plotter Anyone have any more details about these (size, type, comms protocol etc.)? We'd quite like a *large* (A0 / A1) plotter for the museum to have as a working display - unfortunately whilst our Benson works there's not enough info around about the proprietary protocol it uses to hook it up to anything and make it run :-( (but it'll do a nice self test plot ;) ta J. From classiccmp at eco.li Tue Nov 30 07:59:58 2004 From: classiccmp at eco.li (Dan Kolb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: Santa, for Christmas I would like In-Reply-To: <20041129133041.7781D483F@spies.com> References: <20041129133041.7781D483F@spies.com> Message-ID: <20041130135958.GD24802@hades.eco.li> On Mon, Nov 29, 2004 at 05:30:41AM -0800, Al Kossow wrote: > > I guess I should try and copy the drive data onto a spare disk in case it > decides to fail > > -- > > You should back up the software you have, assuming it WILL fail. I'll try my best to do that when I get back home over Christmas. Hopefully I've got some spare drives that I can use. > anyone knows where I can get some AOS/VS media from? > > -- > > try bruce ray (bkr@wildharecomputers.com) Thanks :) Dan -- If time heals all wounds, how come the belly button stays the same? From wmaddox at pacbell.net Tue Nov 30 09:08:37 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: System 36 going dirt cheap (currently $1) for local pickup in Dallas, TX Message-ID: <41AC8CF5.6000807@pacbell.net> Somebody ought to grab this... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=74946&item=5142214995&rd=1#ebayphotohosting --Bill From RMeenaks at OLF.COM Tue Nov 30 10:05:45 2004 From: RMeenaks at OLF.COM (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: Microway Quadputer/Videoputer transputer setup info needed.... Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B558478077FF485@exchange.olf.com> Hi, I am looking for setup information for the videoputer/quadputer transputer boards from Microway. Does anyone have the manuals? A scan of the docs with the jumpers, settings, etc would be helpful. I am trying to help out a fellow transputer user.... Thanks, Ram (c) 2004 OpenLink Financial Copyright in this message and any attachments remains with us. It is confidential and may be legally privileged. If this message is not intended for you it must not be read, copied or used by you or disclosed to anyone else. Please advise the sender immediately if you have received this message in error. Although this message and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss or damage in any way arising from its use. From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Nov 30 10:39:47 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: MSDos on a dial up ISP? Message-ID: <0411301639.AA03352@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Ron Hudson wrote: > Subject: MSDos on a dial up ISP? > How do you do that? Take a look at CWRU-PC/IP: ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG:/pub/micro/msdos/net/ For dial-up you'll also need a Class1-emulating packet driver for your SLIP or PPP. Ask your ISP if they could perhaps set you up with SLIP instead of PPP as it's much less painful under DOS. MS, who has connected to Inet from DOS in this manner prior to starting Harhan in 2000. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Nov 30 12:22:06 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: VCF 7.0 Pictures Message-ID: <200411301822.KAA05510@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jules Richardson" > >On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 17:27 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >> On Mon, 29 Nov 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >> >> > Of course my exhibit wasn't even noticed or photographed. >> >> Well, *I* noticed you, and *I* photographed you (my gallery is still in >> the making). >> >> > As usual Sellam gave me half a table and most just figured >> >> You get what you ask for! If you want more space next year then all you >> need to do is just ask ;) > >Heh, we found that with the CGE show (first show we'd done) - we were >allocated five tables and thought we'd have trouble filling them, and in >the end we needed seven. > >Main lesson learned for next year's show is that you can never have >enough display material to go on the big screens behind the tables, we >were somewhat lacking this time around (and of course anything put up >there needs to be big as the public end up a fair distance away from it) > >Oh, and keep a roll of tape handy to prop the case of your Domesday >system open when it starts overheating ;) > >Definitely need to get Spacewar up and running for next year's show... > >cheers > >Jules > Hi In Sellam's defence, I did only ask for half a table ( although, I only got 1/3 because of overflow ). My exhibit was small enough that it really didn't need more. I was there for the fun and I enjoyed it very much, as I'm sure Sellam knows. The erector set analog computer was fantastic. The PDP11 setup was great as well. I got to actually touch a Curta calculator :) More to my passion, I got a pile of Polymorphic disk from Marvin Johnston to archive. Really great stuff like the original files for the manuals and such. Thanks Sellam! Later Dwight From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Tue Nov 30 12:28:39 2004 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: Scortched Earth (was: Re: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay) Message-ID: <41ACBBD7.3060800@sbcglobal.net> Tom Jennings wrote: >>that, a letter from a lawyer is often effective. > > > To what end, this? It's a bit scorched-earth don't you think? > Hmmm, that rings a bell. I remember playing a DOS game by that name. Up 10 players, each has a tank in a 2-D screen, and you can blow the snot out of (or from under) each other. Anybody else play that game? -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Nov 30 13:34:06 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: Multibus pinouts Message-ID: <1101843246.30834.42.camel@weka.localdomain> Have any of you got Multibus pinouts online anywhere? ta! :) Jules From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Nov 30 14:01:58 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46551b164d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > According to my shelf of schematics for such things, several other > Philips-made tape recorders (sold also under the Cossor and Stella names > had this connecotr, either on its own, or with a normal DIN socket wired > in parallel. The connector has 5 flat pins in a line, arranged something > like : > > | -- -- | -- I've got a Stella "Stellaphone ST454" four-track reel-to-reel (electron tube based.. warms the room in winter :) here - the connector I've got for the inputs looks like this: O | O .. as in, two round pins, with a vertical pin in the middle. It's labelled "R" on the connector panel ("Record Player or Radio Input"). There are also two connectors that consist of three round pins - two large ones on the outside, and a small one in the middle. They appear to be used for the speaker and headphone outputs. The microphone input is a 3-pin DIN. The ST454 needs some restoration - there's a brown stain in the inside of the top plastic (polystyrene, according to the destructions) cover (from the tape?) and the cabinet covering is peeling away. It is, however, fully functional (electronically speaking). Valve complement is - EF86, ECC83, ECL82, EM84, EZ80. If anyone's got a set of schematics for the ST454 (or knows which Philips recorder it's equivalent to), please let me know! Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Error closing BLOUSE.ZIP, insert floppies and retry. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Nov 30 14:20:40 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: Scortched Earth (was: Re: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay) In-Reply-To: <41ACBBD7.3060800@sbcglobal.net> References: <41ACBBD7.3060800@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: In message <41ACBBD7.3060800@sbcglobal.net> David Woyciesjes wrote: > Hmmm, that rings a bell. I remember playing a DOS game by that name. Up > 10 players, each has a tank in a 2-D screen, and you can blow the snot > out of (or from under) each other. Anybody else play that game? Home of the Underdogs has a listing for it - I don't know if it's the same game, though. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... My hard disk is full! Maybe I'll try this message section thing. From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Tue Nov 30 14:23:47 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: MSDos on a dial up ISP? In-Reply-To: <0411301639.AA03352@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0411301639.AA03352@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: I tried nettammer, since it has a built in dialer and packet driver, I guess my modem must be a winmodem, no matter what port I select, the modem never actually goes off hook. It's an internal modem in a laptop. (IBM Thinkpad 390) On Nov 30, 2004, at 8:39 AM, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Ron Hudson wrote: > >> Subject: MSDos on a dial up ISP? >> How do you do that? > > Take a look at CWRU-PC/IP: > > ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG:/pub/micro/msdos/net/ > > For dial-up you'll also need a Class1-emulating packet driver for your > SLIP or PPP. Ask your ISP if they could perhaps set you up with SLIP > instead of PPP as it's much less painful under DOS. > > MS, > who has connected to Inet from DOS in this manner prior to starting > Harhan > in 2000. > From aek at spies.com Tue Nov 30 14:42:04 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: Anyone have a Seagate ST01 or 2 ? Message-ID: <20041130204204.BA0534859@spies.com> from Fred van Kempen Al, Can you ask the list, or anyone, if anyone has an old Seagate ST01 and/or ST02 controller available? I cant post to the list from my biz address.. -- I think these were PC scsi cards. From tomj at wps.com Tue Nov 30 14:50:21 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: NECS (New England Computer Society) apparently defunct In-Reply-To: References: <1101784221.3888.2.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Nov 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > Subject: Re: NECS (New England Computer Society) apparently defunct > > On Mon, 29 Nov 2004, james wrote: > > Wasn't that an offshoot of the Boston Computer Society? I joined BCS > > shortly before they decided they weren't "usefull" anymore and folded. > > Their mission was to make computers commonplace and they felt the > > mission was accomplished. I should add, I know of BCS, but NECS was not that ilk; much more nerdly, technical and professional, as well as amateur. From aek at spies.com Tue Nov 30 14:51:41 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: Multibus pinouts Message-ID: <20041130205141.7DA224848@spies.com> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/intel/_busSpec/P796_multibusSpec_Oct80.pdf From allain at panix.com Tue Nov 30 15:06:33 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: Rescue a 6000! ... & other DEC References: <0ad101c4b22f$c41da260$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <417055C9.2000200@ssww.com> Message-ID: <00bd01c4d720$80b3aa40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> FYI: also there: 2 LP27 lineprinters, 1 TU81-plus tapedrive I was able to swing by Bob Donovan's company on the way to a family function and took a few pictures of the VAX 6000. He talked a bit about apparently three other parties trying to take the machine and giving up. the machine is weeks away from the scrapper. I will be going by in about a week in a normal hatchback car to pick-up what I can. Since the *entire* interior of the car, seats included, is about the size of the VAX, I will dismantle it to accomodate. Alright Jokesters, that's the VAX, not the car. This means that the other 1/2 of the machine is likely going to be scrapped, even though it is in better shape than my car. Just to let you know. If there is another thing I can do, let me know. It's a 6100. quick photos of the visit at http://www.panix.com/~allain/V6000/ John A. Thanks to Bob.D and Rich.B ----- Original Message ----- >From: Gene Buckle >Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 12:52 PM >The shipping charges from Conneticut were too rich for my blood so I'm >hoping one of you will be able to save this machine. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Nov 30 16:34:03 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: Burroughs Panaplex display data needed References: Message-ID: <41ACF55B.8050407@jetnet.ab.ca> Tom Jennings wrote: > I recently acquired a virgin Burroughs Panaplex display, and > can't find data for it. It's a 24-line, 40-column display, tube > only. Character matrixes are 5w x 9h (!) so it'll do decenders. > > The only markings are a simple "N-0008" on one edge. It's got > double staggered rows of pins on all four sides. The whole > thing is about 8" x 10". > > I know how (on paper) to drive panaplex displays (it's nasty) > and would love to work up a nice display with this thing if I > can find pinout data. Any ideas? > Try around here for if they have any docs. http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/nixies.html#catalog From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 30 17:26:17 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: Multibus pinouts In-Reply-To: <1101843246.30834.42.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041130182617.009e9180@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Joe At 07:34 PM 11/30/04 +0000, you wrote: > >Have any of you got Multibus pinouts online anywhere? > >ta! :) > >Jules > > From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Nov 30 18:30:13 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:58 2005 Subject: Interesting Item Message-ID: <200412010030.QAA05679@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I was looking at things on ebay and found item #5144198694. Does anyone recognize this thing. Is it in fact a computer or part of a guidence control? Dwight From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 30 18:56:09 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:59 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: <46551b164d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> from "Philip Pemberton" at Nov 30, 4 08:01:58 pm Message-ID: > > I've got a Stella "Stellaphone ST454" four-track reel-to-reel (electron tube > based.. warms the room in winter :) here - the connector I've got for the > inputs looks like this: > > O | O > That was a farily standard connector on Philips tape recorders. The middle pin is a locator only -- the real reason for it was to stop the plug going into European mains scoksts (!). One of the outside pins should be martked with an earth symbol, the other is (of course) the signal pin. The original plug was unpolarised, but carried a red dot to indictate the signal pin. > .. as in, two round pins, with a vertical pin in the middle. It's labelled > "R" on the connector panel ("Record Player or Radio Input"). There are also > two connectors that consist of three round pins - two large ones on the > outside, and a small one in the middle. They appear to be used for the That was the convention. A flat locator on inputs, a round one on outputs. My Philips (I forget the model number, I can look it up) uses those for the speaker outputs. The inputs, line-level output (on the same connector as the radio 'diode' input) are DIN sockets. Said machine is Stereo, 4 speed (including 15/16 ips [1]), can copy one mono track to the other while mixing in the microphone input, and so on. The speakers are somewhat Heath-Robinson. There's one in the case, used for mono playback and the left stereo channel. And another in the lid. For Stereo playback you uncoil a lead from a slot inside the lid and plug it into the RH extension speaker socket. Then put the lid on the right side of the machine, about 2m away. Of course you can also connect up a pair of speakers or a stereo amplifer/speaker system... [1] Yes, the quality is lousy. It's useful in the same way that the HP82161 [2] is useful. In case some swine gives me a tape recorded at that speed. [2[] On-topic at last. The 82161 is an HPIL mini-cassette drive used with the hP41, HP71, etc. It works, but it's fairly slow, and the tapes are essentially unobtaium (and they are not the same as any normal audio tape cassette). I use a 9114 disk drive with my HP calculators, that uses 3.5" DD disks whioch are much easier to obtain, faster, and store about 5 times as much. But I keep the 82161 going because I sometimes have to copy tapes for other HPCC members, etc. > speaker and headphone outputs. The microphone input is a 3-pin DIN. > > The ST454 needs some restoration - there's a brown stain in the inside of the > top plastic (polystyrene, according to the destructions) cover (from the > tape?) and the cabinet covering is peeling away. It is, however, fully > functional (electronically speaking). Valve complement is - EF86, ECC83, > ECL82, EM84, EZ80. > > If anyone's got a set of schematics for the ST454 (or knows which Philips It's not in Poole and Molloy, at least on that I can find. Can you give me more description, so I can see if I can identify the Philips equivalent. In particular : It's 4 track, does it have a Stereo socket [3]? What's the cabinet made of (most were rexine-covered plywood, a few later ones were plastic) How many speeds, what are they What controls and connectors do you have? [3] Another odd idea of Philips. On some later 4 track machines there was a 3 pin DIN socket, the connections being the lower (track 3) head winding, ground, and +16V (normally obtained by potting down the HT+ line). You could connect a special Philips pre-amplifier there and : a) play back steereo tapes (LH channel throug hte machine, RH channel through the pre-amplidier and the pickup input of your radio set!) b) Monitor track 3 on headphones (the pre-amp could drive the Philips headphones) while recording on track 1 c) Copy track 3 to track 1 (link output of the pre-amp to the input of the recorder) while mixing in another signal (these models had separate recordign level controls for the microphoen and radio/pickup input, thus giving a simple mixer). > recorder it's equivalent to), please let me know! I will see what I can do.... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 30 18:35:37 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:59 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: <10411300808.ZM5109@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Nov 30, 4 08:08:35 am Message-ID: > > On Nov 30 2004, 0:49, Tony Duell wrote: > > > When I make the adapter I'll add a 3 position switch to it (the > adapter), > > postiions being 'Always on'. 'Always off', 'Controlled by the remote > > cable). One of my Tandy cassette recorders, designed for home > computer > > use, has such a switch, and it's useful. > > I made a new DIN plug with the power lead entering via the side, and a > 2.5mm jack socket on the end to control the motor. When the 2.5mm plug > isn't fitted, the motor is on. I was going to make up a little box carrying a coaxial power connector, a 2.5mm jack socket (remote control input) and the switch, with a short length of cable ending in the DIN plug (I was also toying with the idea of putting a 3.5mm socket on it for the monitor headphone connection, but I doubt I'd ever use that facilty. In fact I bought all the bits and then found I needed new belts in the cassette recorder... -tony From news at computercollector.com Tue Nov 30 19:46:06 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:59 2005 Subject: TV ALERT !! Message-ID: <20041201014606.3924.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> The Travel Channel is showing on segment about Burroughs, on John Ratzenburger's "Made in America" series. It starts at 9:00 EST -- that's in 15 minutes. Evan ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 600 readers and counting! From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 30 19:55:29 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:59 2005 Subject: Interesting Item In-Reply-To: <200412010030.QAA05679@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041130205529.0098f100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I don't know what it is but I was at a couple of the Charlie Bell auctions. Charlie had everything under the sun! In fact, he had TWO titan missiles in the yard! He was located just outside the south gate of KSC and had been collecting stuff from there almost from the day that it was built (late 1950s). I told a friend of mine about this auction. He's going to take a look at it, he may know what it is. But unless the seller can give some evidence that it IS a computer and it IS from a rocket then I wouldn't believe a word of it! Joe At 04:30 PM 11/30/04 -0800, you wrote: >Hi > I was looking at things on ebay and found >item #5144198694. Does anyone recognize this >thing. Is it in fact a computer or part of >a guidence control? >Dwight > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 30 19:57:50 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:59 2005 Subject: Me too! Re: Interesting Item In-Reply-To: <200412010030.QAA05679@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041130205750.00990aa0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I went to Melbourne today. Found a nice HP Integral PC IN A SCRAP BIN! Also found an original package of Cobol Compiler V 1.00 for the IBM PC, complete with box, binder, manuals and disks. Joe From brain at jbrain.com Tue Nov 30 20:52:36 2004 From: brain at jbrain.com (Jim Brain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:59 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: <01b901c4d59f$74f5d200$fa4f0945@acme> References: <031c01c4d4c7$fa6dd960$164f0945@acme> <4584.192.168.0.7.1101650144.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> <01b901c4d59f$74f5d200$fa4f0945@acme> Message-ID: <41AD31F4.5050402@jbrain.com> Glen Goodwin wrote: >One transistor + one resistor + one monitor = rock solid display. > > Any links? A dormant unit sits on the shelf. >Scraps from the junk box and 30 minutes time will yield a cable which >provides enough distance from the ZX81 to eliminate the "wobble" >problem. > > Again, links? Jim -- Jim Brain, Brain Innovations brain@jbrain.com http://www.jbrain.com Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, Old CBM computers, and Good Times! From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Nov 30 21:10:23 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:59 2005 Subject: Interesting Item In-Reply-To: <200412010030.QAA05679@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: > I was looking at things on ebay and found > item #5144198694. Does anyone recognize this > thing. Is it in fact a computer or part of > a guidence control? Well, it is a computer, but probably doesn't do much. Essentially, the military uses a rather loose definition when it comes to computer - even a couple of potentiometers in a box will be called a computer, if it does compute some variables. My guess that this is another "nameless*" bit of 50s and 60s aircraft gear, perhaps for drone control, or maybe a fire control system. If the tag was clearer, I could maybe tell more. Anyway, it does not look space rated. *"nameless", as a lot of this stuff had seemingly random part numbers that really didn't tell you much, and also did not get published much. I have a lot of this sort of thing, and rarely do I figure out what it goes with. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Tue Nov 30 21:19:26 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:59 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs Message-ID: anyone have the DOS version of Empire, Nethack (an older version that does not need dpmi), I had a DOS version of tetris too (using regular characters in 40 char mode) so I am looking for that too. Any websites that provide old DOS programs for download? Thanks! From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Nov 30 21:27:59 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:59 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200412010330.WAA05125@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > anyone have the DOS version of Empire, Nethack (an older version that > does not need dpmi), I had a DOS version of tetris too (using regular > characters in 40 char mode) so I am looking for that too. Well, I don't know about Empire or nethack, but I know NetBSD comes with a character-mode tetris which quite likely would require minimal work to adapt to DOS use. Or are you specifically looking for "classic" software here? /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Tue Nov 30 21:59:55 2004 From: trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (trash3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:59 2005 Subject: Rescue a 6000! ... & other DEC Message-ID: <200412010359.iB13xtcj005338@splab.cas.neu.edu> Sorry, John, I would have helped, but we leave for vacation this Friday for 16 days. Earlier or later would have been good, but thats the way it is... Joe Heck From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Tue Nov 30 21:57:21 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:59 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs In-Reply-To: <200412010330.WAA05125@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200412010330.WAA05125@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <19E7D8C4-434D-11D9-B578-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Nov 30, 2004, at 7:27 PM, der Mouse wrote: >> anyone have the DOS version of Empire, Nethack (an older version that >> does not need dpmi), I had a DOS version of tetris too (using regular >> characters in 40 char mode) so I am looking for that too. > > Well, I don't know about Empire or nethack, but I know NetBSD comes > with a character-mode tetris which quite likely would require minimal > work to adapt to DOS use. > > Or are you specifically looking for "classic" software here? Actually, you may have to go through some gyrations to get a unix/linux console application to compile under DOS. I am trying to re-create the DOS environment of my youth. :^) > > /~\ The ASCII der Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Nov 30 22:17:06 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:59 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs In-Reply-To: <19E7D8C4-434D-11D9-B578-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> References: <200412010330.WAA05125@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <19E7D8C4-434D-11D9-B578-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <200412010422.XAA05315@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> Well, I don't know about Empire or nethack, but I know NetBSD comes >> with a character-mode tetris which quite likely would require >> minimal work to adapt to DOS use. >> Or are you specifically looking for "classic" software here? > Actually, you may have to go through some gyrations to get a > unix/linux console application to compile under DOS. May. I suspect this would be one of the easier cases, but that's admittedly coming from someone who hasn't tried it. Even if it isn't, tetris is not a difficult game to write. I believe I could even do it in x86 assembly; given timer and keyboard input hooks (interrupts handlers, they'd have to be, under DOS), there isn't really anything difficult. > I am trying to re-create the DOS environment of my youth. :^) Ah yes, trying to recapture halcyon days gone by.... /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From dvcorbin at optonline.net Tue Nov 30 22:55:19 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:59 2005 Subject: FW: Upcoming Trip... Message-ID: On Friday 12/3 I will be heading down I-95 from NY to Va. to pick up a great find...Returning Saturday (or possibly Sunday). I will have an SUV with Trailer. If this can be of use to anyone (especially those looking to get rid of DEC equipment to a good home ) drop me a post. Seriouly, anyone on list into DEC (especially PDP-8) who is near this route, drop me a note.... David david@dynamicconcepts.us From dvcorbin at optonline.net Tue Nov 30 22:54:54 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:59 2005 Subject: Rescue a 6000! ... & other DEC In-Reply-To: <200412010359.iB13xtcj005338@splab.cas.neu.edu> Message-ID: Just tuned back in after a crazy two weeks.... Is the resuce still pending, what equipment, location, need for assistance???? >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of >>> trash3@splab.cas.neu.edu >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 11:00 PM >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: Re: Rescue a 6000! ... & other DEC >>> >>> Sorry, John, I would have helped, but we leave for vacation >>> this Friday for >>> 16 days. Earlier or later would have been good, but thats >>> the way it is... >>> >>> Joe Heck From dvcorbin at optonline.net Tue Nov 30 22:57:32 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:59 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs In-Reply-To: <19E7D8C4-434D-11D9-B578-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: >>>> I am trying to re-create the DOS environment of my youth. :^) Ahh to be young enough to consider DOS (on a peecee) a "youthful" experience....My goal is to get a complete TSS/8 system up and running! Now those were the days!!! From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Nov 30 22:42:44 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:59 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs References: <200412010330.WAA05125@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <19E7D8C4-434D-11D9-B578-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <002e01c4d760$33817190$0200fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Hudson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 10:57 PM Subject: Re: Old Dos Programs > > On Nov 30, 2004, at 7:27 PM, der Mouse wrote: > > >> anyone have the DOS version of Empire, Nethack (an older version that > >> does not need dpmi), I had a DOS version of tetris too (using regular > >> characters in 40 char mode) so I am looking for that too. > > > > Well, I don't know about Empire or nethack, but I know NetBSD comes > > with a character-mode tetris which quite likely would require minimal > > work to adapt to DOS use. > > > > Or are you specifically looking for "classic" software here? > > Actually, you may have to go through some gyrations to get a unix/linux > console > application to compile under DOS. > > I am trying to re-create the DOS environment of my youth. :^) > > > try www.dosgames.com and http://www.the-underdogs.org/index.php From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Nov 30 19:33:16 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:00 2005 Subject: Reel-to-reel tape decks (was Re: ZX81 denigrated!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <27aa39164d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > That was a farily standard connector on Philips tape recorders. The > middle pin is a locator only -- the real reason for it was to stop the > plug going into European mains scoksts (!). Heh. > One of the outside pins > should be martked with an earth symbol, the other is (of course) the > signal pin. The original plug was unpolarised, but carried a red dot to > indictate the signal pin. the problem now is, where can you get the plugs? > Said machine is Stereo, 4 speed (including 15/16 ips [1]), can copy one > mono track to the other while mixing in the microphone input, and so on. > The speakers are somewhat Heath-Robinson. There's one in the case, used > for mono playback and the left stereo channel. And another in the lid. > For Stereo playback you uncoil a lead from a slot inside the lid and plug > it into the RH extension speaker socket. Then put the lid on the right > side of the machine, about 2m away. Of course you can also connect up a > pair of speakers or a stereo amplifer/speaker system... Sounds like a nice machine. Vacuum-tube or transistorised? > It's not in Poole and Molloy, at least on that I can find. Can you give > me more description, so I can see if I can identify the Philips equivalent. > > In particular : > > It's 4 track, does it have a Stereo socket [3]? > [3] Another odd idea of Philips. On some later 4 track machines there was > a 3 pin DIN socket, the connections being the lower (track 3) head > winding, ground, and +16V (normally obtained by potting down the HT+ > line). You could connect a special Philips pre-amplifier there and : Not to my knowledge. I'll have to drag it out again and check the destructions. The only 3-pin DIN on there that I know of is the microphone input socket. > What's the cabinet made of (most were rexine-covered plywood, a few later > ones were plastic) The manual says "Plastic-covered wood". The areas of plastic-paper covering that are peeling reveal wood underneath. > How many speeds, what are they Single speed. > What controls and connectors do you have? Play, fast-forward, rewind, stop, record, Superimpose (disables the erase head), tone control, volume control (with track-switcher on the outer ring, volume on the inner ring), record level adjust, and a cute little EM84 magic-eye built into the stop button. As far as connectors go, there's: 3-pin DIN: Mic. 3-pin something-or-other ( O | O layout): Record player / radio input 3-pin " " ( O o O layout): Headphone output 3-pin " " ( O o O layout): Speaker output Thanks. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... If at first you don't succeed, call it Ver 1.0 From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Nov 30 20:34:35 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:03 2005 Subject: TV ALERT !! References: <20041201014606.3924.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <014801c4d74f$2d59e1f0$5c406b43@66067007> Got it on tape THANKS for the tip. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Computer Collector Newsletter" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 7:46 PM Subject: TV ALERT !! > The Travel Channel is showing on segment about Burroughs, on John > Ratzenburger's "Made in America" series. It starts at 9:00 EST -- that's > in 15 > minutes. > > Evan > > ===== > Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! > -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address > -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us > -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all > > Visit our web site for lots of extra content: > http://news.computercollector.com > > Contact us at news@computercollector.com > > 600 readers and counting! > From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Nov 30 19:01:27 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:03 2005 Subject: Is agcarrick on the list? Message-ID: <010901c4d743$f20c75a0$5c406b43@66067007> I lost out to "agcarrick" for the Sys/36 on ebay today. From david at cantrell.org.uk Mon Nov 15 03:43:38 2004 From: david at cantrell.org.uk (David Cantrell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: Now available: Guide to U.S. Computer Museums, 2005 Edition In-Reply-To: <4193C2FF.1040708@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <20041111194746.18878.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> <4193C2FF.1040708@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20041115092341.GB14916@bytemark.barnyard.co.uk> On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 12:52:31PM -0700, ben franchuk wrote: > On Topic: What about Canada and the UK guide if we have any Museums? The only UK ones I can think of are Bletchley Park and I *think* there's a reasonable amount of stuff at the Science Museum. I'd love to be corrected on this. German list-members might be interested in this: http://www.cray-cyber.org/craycyber/press_tagtuer04_de.php -- David Cantrell From list_classiccomp-tech at greencroft.co.uk Mon Nov 15 09:09:53 2004 From: list_classiccomp-tech at greencroft.co.uk (list_classiccomp-tech@greencroft.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: wanted ; docs for Omnibyte Corp OB68K1A multibus SBC Message-ID: <7310020377.20041115144952@Greencroft.co.uk> Anyone got any info on the above board? motorola 68000 CPU, DRAM, ROM & some IO (2*6821 PIAs, 2*6850 SIOs, 1* 6840), and a bunch of switches, all on a MultiBUS I card. Also has "master/slave D16 M24 I16 VOL 1982" legended. Nothing helpfull showing up on a Google so far. (received it amongst a pile of DEC manuals & TK50s rescued a month or so ago) ta. greg From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Mon Nov 15 10:24:20 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (gordonjcp@gjcp.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: Sperry anyone? In-Reply-To: <1100527002.7156.77.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <419891D6.4030909@pacbell.net> <1100527002.7156.77.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <31922.195.212.29.91.1100534517.squirrel@195.212.29.91> > > The Ethernet boards for them are like gold dust btw - not many systems > shipped with them. How hard would it be to write a SLIP driver and hook one of the many serial ports up to a PC? Gordon. From jeroen.van.hengstum at hccnet.nl Thu Nov 18 13:38:13 2004 From: jeroen.van.hengstum at hccnet.nl (Jeroen van Hengstum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041118194505.00bcaec8@pop.hccnet.nl> Hello all, Recently I got a VAX 11/725, a small model VAX that was produced around 1983. I intend to try to boot this machine again after many years. - Does anyone have a 11/725? - Does anyone have 11/725 related documentation? - How do you check in a few steps with this computer whether it is still functioning properly? Thanks, Jeroen -- From holger.veit at ais.fraunhofer.de Mon Nov 22 06:16:59 2004 From: holger.veit at ais.fraunhofer.de (Holger Veit) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: HP 1000 opcodes? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041113231147.00a40dc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041113214312.00988920@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041113231147.00a40dc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <41A1D8BB.70109@ais.fraunhofer.de> Joe R. wrote: >Bob, > > Jay told me where to find the 21MX opcodes. They're in the RTE Assembler manual in the RTE section of Al's site. > > Joe > > > > Thanks Jay. I knew I'd seen one somewhere but I couldn't find it. However I didn't check in the RTE section. > > Joe > > >At 09:13 PM 11/13/04 -0600, you wrote: > > >>It's up there in several places... not the least of which is: >> >>http://www.classiccmp.org/bitsavers/pdf/hp/21xx/rteIII/92060-90005_rteAssemb_Apr79.pdf >> >> You might also look at http://www.hp.com/products1/rte/tech_support/documentation/documentation4/92059-90001.pdf (Macro/1000 Ref Manual) in appendices B-D. Holger From fabtagon at gmx.de Wed Nov 24 10:30:50 2004 From: fabtagon at gmx.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fabian_H=E4nsel?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: hardware fault on SGI Indigo? Message-ID: <41A4B73A.7020105@gmx.de> Hi everybody, I have an old SGI Indigo (IP12) which refuses my attempts to populate the harddisk with Irix 5.3. The harddisk doesn't boot, so I assume it to be empty. I get sashIP12 and fx.IP12 to load from cd, but using fx with that hd fails: SGI Version 5.3 IP12 Oct 31, 1994 fx: "device-name"= (dksc) fx: ctrl#= (0) fx: drive#= (1) ... opening dksc(0,1,) dks0d1s10: Drive not ready: RAM failure, ASQ=0x80. fx: warning: Failed to open dksc(0,1,10) SGI Version 5.3 IP12 Oct 31, 1994 (and the same again, if I want) Is it trying to open a non-existent partition dks0d1s10? Is it a software-fault? If it's a hardware fault: What's broken: hd or ram? The hd is in the bottom drive bay. After my enter keystroke in line 4 (drive#=1) the led flashes for a short time and at the same time (or maybe some millisecconds later) the error message appears. The error isn't very meaningful to me. Does anybody know about the problem or does have any hints? Thanks in advance, Fabian From rimmer at xs4all.nl Wed Nov 24 12:37:58 2004 From: rimmer at xs4all.nl (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: Free : Facit Ribbons Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.0.20041124193540.02902458@pop.xs4all.nl> I dont know if anybody is interested in these but I have a bunch of unused Facit ribbon's for the Facit B3150 / B3350 / B3550 / D635 / E630 / E750. They are free for shipping costs or you can pick them up too offcourse. Located in the Netherlands. Cheers, Stefan. From m_thompson at ids.net Wed Nov 24 14:24:03 2004 From: m_thompson at ids.net (M Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: BBN and SMS pictures. Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20041124152403.011728e0@155.212.1.107> At 02:02 PM 11/19/2004 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > Here are some pictures of SOME of the stuff that I got last weekend. Besides a huge box of manuals that I've sent to Al, I found five BBN computers and I'm attempting to rescue enough of one to make a workable system for Tom Uban. Plus all the cards out of the other ones for him for spares. The BBN chassis is just too big to deal with but I got ALL the cables, the complete PSU (on the back panel!), the multibus card cage (and all the MB cards) and the switch card that lets all the CPUs talk to all the other CPUs. The BBN CPUs are odd in that they don't plug into a socket so the card cage isn't absolutely necessary. All the power and signals go through connectors on the front of the card. Warning: this is a SCRAP place and some of it isn't pretty! > > I designed the Multibus backplane in that BBN machine about 20 years ago. Michael Thompson E-Mail: M_Thompson@IDS.net From squidster3128 at yahoo.com Sun Nov 28 01:01:15 2004 From: squidster3128 at yahoo.com (Wai-Sun Chia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: M9312 boot roms (again) Message-ID: <20041128070115.67557.qmail@web53201.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, Sorry to beat this old horse again, but did anybody set up a repository for M9312 boot images since the last discussion? (I actually went to look for them in www.classiccmp.org/M9312, and Pete's DECROM repository doesn't seem to have the 23-xxxA9 M9312 roms) I need some of them, specifically the DU, DX, and DY. Question: Is the DY (supposed for RX02) able to boot RX01s too? /wai-sun ===== /wai-sun __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com From adomsr at yahoo.com Mon Nov 29 05:55:17 2004 From: adomsr at yahoo.com (ahmed abu aqlain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: analog computer support information Message-ID: <20041129115517.40191.qmail@web60907.mail.yahoo.com> I'm Ahmed and I have the following analog computer Comdyna GP-6 and I want to implement a high order control transfer function, but I do not know how to rescale of the gain coeffecients fro the high order TFs. so, we send you this letter to help us in this point if it possible. Thank you very much AHMED --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! – What will yours do? From peterdexter at tiscali.co.uk Tue Nov 30 10:00:17 2004 From: peterdexter at tiscali.co.uk (Peter Dexter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: Ancient Graphics tablet Message-ID: <41AC9911.7010109@tiscali.co.uk> Hi I just noticed your reply to a post at http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2003-July/025586.html I have just been given an old (1989) Numonics Graphics tablet. It is boxed and never used. I was wondering if you may have any advice or info on this tablet and if it is possible by any means to get this item up and running under any windows platfortm. I guess it is a long shot but I would be interested and grateful if you had any futher knoweldge on this issue. I can connect the tablet to my comp via the cable that shipped with the tablet but that is as far as I can get. Thanks Peter Dexter From nataliac at uvigo.es Tue Nov 30 04:08:02 2004 From: nataliac at uvigo.es (Natalia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: hp 9121 Message-ID: <41AC4682.5D5D9DA4@uvigo.es> I have a Dual Disk Drive HP 9121 that is cabled to an HP 9816 whith operative system HP Basic 2.0. When I copy or save file or program put the message "error 88: read data error". Can you help me? What is the Problem? thanks you and pardon for my english. Natalia Caparrini Spain From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Tue Nov 30 12:56:31 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (gordonjcp@gjcp.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: Scortched Earth (was: Re: Sale of 'free' stuff on eBay) In-Reply-To: <41ACBBD7.3060800@sbcglobal.net> References: <41ACBBD7.3060800@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <44529.195.212.29.91.1101840991.squirrel@195.212.29.91> > Tom Jennings wrote: > >>that, a letter from a lawyer is often effective. > > > > > > To what end, this? It's a bit scorched-earth don't you think? > > > > Hmmm, that rings a bell. I remember playing a DOS game by that name. Up > 10 players, each has a tank in a 2-D screen, and you can blow the snot > out of (or from under) each other. Anybody else play that game? > http://www.scorch2000.com What a time-sink on those very quiet late-night shifts at work... Gordon. From david at dynamicconcepts.us Tue Nov 30 21:49:02 2004 From: david at dynamicconcepts.us (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: Upcoming Trip... Message-ID: On Friday 12/3 I will be heading down I-95 from NY to Va. to pick up a great find...Returning Saturday (or possibly Sunday). I will have an SUV with Trailer. If this can be of use to anyone (especially those looking to get rid of DEC equipment to a good home ) drop me a post. Seriouly, anyone on list into DEC (especially PDP-8) who is near this route, drop me a note.... David david@dynamicconcepts.us From Shed at shedward.com Tue Nov 30 23:42:45 2004 From: Shed at shedward.com (Shedward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: Visual 1050 - can anybody send me a photo? Message-ID: <41AD59D6.71580933@shedward.com> Hi, Did you ever find your photo? Shedward