From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jul 1 00:35:57 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:00 2005 Subject: HP I/O Extender available Message-ID: <003001c45f2d$4951ef50$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> HP 12979B I/O extender - If anyone wants one let me know. Jay From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Jul 1 00:36:16 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners References: <200407010200.WAA26842@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <005d01c45f2d$549403d0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> for a more dramatic display watch the history channel segment on electricians on modern marvels.... yikes... they feed voltage to a simulated electrician and crisp... ughghgh scary.... Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "der Mouse" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 6:49 PM Subject: Re: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners > > More stories when some others have owned up, I guess :-) > > Well, let's see. > > ---- > > There was the time I was working on mains wiring (helping my parents > with their house) and we had something - an outlet box, I think - to > work on. We wanted to flip the breaker for that circuit before working > on it, but for some reason we weren't sure which circuit it was on. I > said something like "well, let's find out", stuck a screwdriver in the > corner of the box (metal boxes, properly grounded) and leaned it over > to touch the hot wire. > > It worked, in that it flipped the correct breaker. But I was idiot > enough to be looking right at it as I did this. When I could see > again, I found that the screwdriver had a semicircular piece chewed out > of its shaft, about halfway through, and the room smelled of vapourized > metal - steel and copper, presumably. > > I've never taken that drastic an approach to flipping a breaker since, > and don't expect to unless something fairly precious is at stake (say, > someone is being electrocuted, that's about the level of severity that > could lead me to crowbar a mains circuit). > > As far as I know, the screwdriver is still in service. (It was last > time I had occasion to work around that house, which was years ago.) > > ---- > > Then there was the time I was trying to debug a problem with a > packet-filtering firewall. The packets just weren't getting through. > I stared at the rules, my boss (himself a sharp geek) stared at the > rules, one of the owners stared at the rules (the company is owned by > two people, the founders - a geek and a businessman), the person who > did most of the firewall stuff stared at the rules, and then someone > else, who didn't do diddly with firewalls in general, said something > like "um, aren't *those* supposed to be over *here*?". > > Sure enough, the rules were (liberally paraphrased) > > pass from EXTERNAL to INTERNAL port PORT1 > pass from EXTERNAL to INTERNAL port PORT2 > pass from EXTERNAL to INTERNAL port PORT3 > pass from EXTERNAL to INTERNAL port PORT4 > pass from INTERNAL to EXTERNAL port PORT1 > pass from INTERNAL to EXTERNAL port PORT2 > pass from INTERNAL to EXTERNAL port PORT3 > pass from INTERNAL to EXTERNAL port PORT4 > > and needed to be > > pass from EXTERNAL to INTERNAL port PORT1 > pass from EXTERNAL to INTERNAL port PORT2 > pass from EXTERNAL to INTERNAL port PORT3 > pass from EXTERNAL to INTERNAL port PORT4 > pass from INTERNAL port PORT1 to EXTERNAL > pass from INTERNAL port PORT2 to EXTERNAL > pass from INTERNAL port PORT3 to EXTERNAL > pass from INTERNAL port PORT4 to EXTERNAL > > I've rarely had that duh! a moment. (At least I had some company.) > > /~\ The ASCII der Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > > From cheri-post at web.de Thu Jul 1 04:05:03 2004 From: cheri-post at web.de (Pierre Gebhardt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: Question about PDP8/a fans Message-ID: <413052288@web.de> Hello all, Yesterday, I brought my PDP8/a (with core memory) back to life, I got from our institute. It works, although the fans and the console panel (the plastic part, not the electronics) are missing. Now, what are the voltages of the fans ? I suppose that they're working with alternating current. They've to be replaced (somebody apparently "needed" them...). On the power supply, there is a dead thyristor/SCR in the 5 volt regulator circuit. As the machine works fine without it, I suppose that its function is to prevent high voltages, am I right ? So far, thanks alot for any help in advance ! Pierre ____________________________________________________ Aufnehmen, abschicken, nah sein - So einfach ist WEB.DE Video-Mail: http://freemail.web.de/?mc=021200 From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Jul 1 04:58:25 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: HP analyzer probes In-Reply-To: <145cecdd04063017089827457@mail.gmail.com> References: <145cecdd04063017089827457@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <89039dc74c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <145cecdd04063017089827457@mail.gmail.com> Christopher McNabb wrote: > When they commented that there were tools like Visio available I had > to tell them that Visio (which is installed on one of my machines) > only helps with drawing, not with thinking. And in the case of electronics design software (e.g. PROTEL or EAGLE), you tend to get innundated with "Two output pins on one net" and similar design check errors rather quickly. > There is just something about pencil to paper that makes the brain juices > flow. Same here. I really need to find somewhere that stocks logic design and electronic design templates, though. Most of the local stationers don't stock them and couldn't get them either, which is a bit of a pain. ISTR Tandy (RadioShack) used to sell them, but they're long gone now... Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Pets just die on you, where's the fun in that? From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Thu Jul 1 05:27:05 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners In-Reply-To: <200407010200.WAA26842@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200407010200.WAA26842@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.0.20040701111231.02f44bc8@pop.freeserve.net> At 02:49 01/07/2004, der Mouse wrote: >There was the time I was working on mains wiring (helping my parents >with their house) This reminds me.. Some years back, I was doing a complete re-wire on a friends house. They had just moved in, and the previous occupant had been a bit of a DIY nut. I suppose I should have been warned by the "clock point" being bare (thin, multi-strand) wires hanging out of a wall, connected to mains electricity by twisting the other ends around bared cables of the 30A ring-main under the floorboards above. Anyway, it was early evening, but quite dark. I was taking out the old sockets in the kitchen in order to connect up new ones to new cables in the same spots. I'd pulled out every fuse and breaker in the house, except for the dedicated 45A (at 240V) circuit to the cooker - this had a standard main outlet integrated into the cooker isolator switch (pretty standard in older UK installations) , to which I had attached a lamp, to give me chance to work on. Anyway, working my way around the kitchen, I opened up the last socket, snipped off the old cable, and BANG. And the light went out... I was a little shocked (emotionally, not electrically) but obviously not a much so as my friend's wife who had at that moment been stood in the doorway watching. I got a quiet, totally terrified "Are you all right?" Suicidal idiot beforehand had only gone and wired a standard 13A outlet direct into a 45A cooker circuit rather than as a spur off another 13A socket that was actually nearer! It melted a whopping hole in my best cutters, but the insulated handles were good and I never felt a thing. Rob From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jul 1 05:26:02 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: XTerms + DEC stuff + misc available (Cambridge, UK) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1088677561.4325.52.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 00:35, Tony Duell wrote: > > ps. I too am curious to know what the spiky thing is! > > Knowing the source, and knowing what they had, I am pretty sure this is a > DEC Unibus backplane of some flavour. Dammit, spoil my surprise why don't you? :-P Still hoping somebody wants some Xterms! I think everything else has now found a home (unless anyone *really* wants an old dot matrix printer!) I used to have a plan to get hold of a decent Xterm and then stick all the noisy hard disks on a server in a cupboard somewhere - nice and quiet then! Lack of audio support on any Xterm I've come across knocked that idea on the head unfortunately... cheers Jules From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 1 06:04:45 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.0.20040701111231.02f44bc8@pop.freeserve.net> References: <200407010200.WAA26842@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <200407010200.WAA26842@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040701070445.0091ce90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:27 AM 7/1/04 +0100, Rob wrote: > >Suicidal idiot beforehand had only gone and wired a standard 13A outlet >direct into a 45A cooker circuit rather than as a spur off another 13A >socket that was actually nearer! > >It melted a whopping hole in my best cutters, but the insulated handles >were good and I never felt a thing. Many years ago I worked as an electronic technician in a hospital. One day I was helping remove the contents of an old exam room that was going to be totally renovated. In it were several stainless steel desks with AC electrical outlets in them. I was getting ready to remove the desks and needed to remove the outlets first. The company electrician was also working on the renovation and I went over and asked him if he had turned off the power to the outlets and he replied "sure". So I merrily started removed outlets. When I got the about the third one I dropped it on the metal table and POW! Sparks flew, the breakers tripped and all the lights went out. After I pried myself off the ceiling I went after the so and so electrician that had told me that the power was off. He merely said "let that be a lesson, allways check the breakers yourself". I've never frogotten that! Joe From squidster at techie.com Thu Jul 1 03:44:10 2004 From: squidster at techie.com (wai-sun chia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: RK05/RL02 Boot Sequence Message-ID: <20040701084410.D4FA7790052@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> Hello list, I'm trying to figure out the boot sequence on both the RK05 and RL02 drive from a PDP. Here's how I understand it so far: 1. Get the bootstrap in core either via the FP or PTR. 2. Execute bootstrap and pull in the absolute loader from 1st. sector of 512 bytes or 256 words; i.e. copy 1st. sector of drive to core starting from 0 3. Execute absolute loader by a JMP 0. 4. ??? What happens next ??? Because of not (yet) having a RL02 nor a RK05, I'm using simh and trying to trace what's going on when I "attach rk0 rt11.dsk" and then a "boot rk0", but it's pretty difficult going.. Thanks. /wai-sun -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From owad at applefritter.com Thu Jul 1 08:09:08 2004 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: VCFe (trades) IBM datamaster In-Reply-To: <00c001c45f0e$eca42de0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <00c001c45f0e$eca42de0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <20040701130908.20712@mail.earthlink.net> On Wednesday, June 30, 2004, Jay West, wrote: >> IBM System/23 Datamaster. Two desktop units and one tower unit. All >> three power up and are able to read a directory from disk, not tested >> further. > >Hummm if my basement was just a LITTLE less full, I could go for this one! We'll make it a trade, and it could be. ;) Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Thu Jul 1 08:47:31 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: XTerms + DEC stuff + misc available (Cambridge, UK) In-Reply-To: <1088677561.4325.52.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1088677561.4325.52.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.0.20040701143746.03ec0db8@pop.freeserve.net> At 11:26 01/07/2004, Jules Richardson wrote: >Still hoping somebody wants some Xterms! I think everything else has now >found a home (unless anyone *really* wants an old dot matrix printer!) I'd take one or two, if you or somebody can arrange shipping (to Salford, UK, I'd cover costs), just to play with. I have no use for all of them though! Which are the best sort to have? I hope the BBC Micros have found a good home. I have a soft spot for these machines. :-) Back in the day, after having seen one, I always used to want to make up a video wall out of BBC monitors (Microvitec Cubs are nicely stackable) but never had anything to drive it with, nor enough monitors! Maybe that's a project for somebody, assuming the "16 BBC type monitors" are of this sort. >I used to have a plan to get hold of a decent Xterm and then stick all >the noisy hard disks on a server in a cupboard somewhere - nice and >quiet then! Lack of audio support on any Xterm I've come across knocked >that idea on the head unfortunately... Microsoft's "remote desktop" under Windows XP seems to manage to send sound to the remote client (as long as you use the right version of the client) so I assume it must be possible.. Just needs implementing under X by somebody.. Rob From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Jul 1 08:56:42 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: RK05/RL02 Boot Sequence References: <20040701084410.D4FA7790052@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <16612.6170.552500.656950@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "wai-sun" == wai-sun chia writes: wai-sun> Hello list, I'm trying to figure out the boot sequence on wai-sun> both the RK05 and RL02 drive from a PDP. Here's how I wai-sun> understand it so far: wai-sun> 1. Get the bootstrap in core either via the FP or PTR. wai-sun> 2. Execute bootstrap and pull in the absolute loader from wai-sun> 1st. sector of 512 bytes or 256 words; i.e. copy 1st. sector wai-sun> of drive to core starting from 0 3. Execute absolute loader wai-sun> by a JMP 0. 4. ??? What happens next ??? Typically, what happens next is that more initialization code is read in from the disk. How much and where it comes from depends on the OS. For example, in RT11 the bootstrap is 2 blocks long (block 2 is the rest). It reads the directory to find the kernel and loads that, then jumps to it. (Give or take some handwaving; Megan can improve on this in her sleep...) In RSTS, the bootstrap contains a list of disk blocks where the init.sys program lives; first it moves itself up into high memory and then it reads init.sys using that table, and jumps to the entry point. Init.sys finds all the hardware, does all sorts of setup, and finally loads the OS. IAS and RSX-11D have a saved memory image; the boot loader loads that and then fakes a powerfail interrupt. The power restore routines then reinitialize ths OS and drivers, and you're up. Other PDP11 operating systems -- no idea, but changes are it's a variation on one of these themes. paul From pat at computer-refuge.org Thu Jul 1 09:01:37 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: CXA16 cable pinout? Message-ID: <200407010901.37755.pat@computer-refuge.org> So, I'm acquiring some DECserver 550's, and as I'd actually like to use them as terminal/console servers, I need the pinout for the harmonica block that would normally go on the end of the cable for these. I don't seem to be able to find any documentation on pinout for them using Google. Any help is appreciated. :) Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Jul 1 09:22:36 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes In-Reply-To: <00fa01c45ec5$258d4500$0500fea9@game> References: <0406301636.AA12324@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <200406301656.MAA24967@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <00fa01c45ec5$258d4500$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <8e33b5c74c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <00fa01c45ec5$258d4500$0500fea9@game> "Teo Zenios" wrote: > So what is wrong with having a working TV? While I have not watched network > TV much since Seinfeld went off the air, I do like the History Channel, > Comedy Central, and HBO. Nothing wrong with TV per se, but I strongly object to paying ?50 per month, just for the sake of more channels that are even more stuffed with advertising than the crap that gets piped over the terrestrial TV network (BBC, ITV, Channel 4 and "five"). If Sky reduced the amount of advertising on their channels (they seem to own enough of the channels on the Sky network) and/or significantly reduced the subscription cost, I would consider reinstating the subscription. If the British Government continue with their plans to force everyone onto digital TV (i.e. "pay ?120 per year for the 'TV licence' plus an extra ?20 p/m for the DTV sub"), the TVs and VCRs are going. I *used* to like the Discovery channels (mostly Animal Planet - some good nature documentaries) and CNX (aka Toonami, they had some fairly good Japanese anime, e.g. Outlaw Star, Cowboy Bebop). Now I just buy the DVDs. Rant mode off, etc., etc.... Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... I can't think of anything witty to say right now. From mtapley at swri.edu Thu Jul 1 09:25:20 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners In-Reply-To: <200407011325.i61DPmhc060084@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200407011325.i61DPmhc060084@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: My favorite: (on-topic, but not computer-related) Car starter motor is really weak, finally just won't turn over. Lights dim and all when I turn the key. OK, $65 new battery. Same symptom. Sigh. Well, battery was old anyway. Must be the starter motor. $75 new starter motor, and some time under the hood. Same symptom. Drat! Now who knows what's broken? Start tracing power wiring, to see what other boxes are in between....after a few minutes of this, the positive lead from the battery *comes off in my hand*, leaving the clamp still attached to the battery post. Doh. Put cable back into its little cable-side clamp, tighten down the nuts, problem solved. The *real* "Doh" is how I managed to change out the battery and still not notice the loose cable! ---- Then there was the sticktiony hard drive I was trying to get to spin up one last time by wobbling (about the spin axis) as it tried to start up, and grabbed by some part that was live. Got maybe a 12V shock on my finger, fried some part of the drive and that was the end of that data. ---- Can I count grounding one of the print-head lines on an inkjet printer with a multi-meter probe and blowing the fuse on the power brick, or is that just SOP? Hate it when I do that. -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From thompson at new.rr.com Thu Jul 1 09:29:12 2004 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: CXA16 cable pinout? In-Reply-To: <200407010901.37755.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200407010901.37755.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: Wow, do you actually have 128 consoles to be served? Those things suck some serious power. This web page talks about how pinout for the cable to the H3104 cable concentrator. http://vax.sevensages.org/hw/cables.html (Search on H3104) > So, I'm acquiring some DECserver 550's, and as I'd actually like to use > them as terminal/console servers, I need the pinout for the harmonica > block that would normally go on the end of the cable for these. I > don't seem to be able to find any documentation on pinout for them > using Google. From auryn at GCI-Net.com Thu Jul 1 10:08:32 2004 From: auryn at GCI-Net.com (D Yuniskis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: XTerms + DEC stuff + misc available (Cambridge, UK) References: <1088677561.4325.52.camel@weka.localdomain> <6.1.1.1.0.20040701143746.03ec0db8@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <000901c45f7d$4b5c2fe0$de01000a@xxyy> > >Still hoping somebody wants some Xterms! I think everything else has now > >found a home (unless anyone *really* wants an old dot matrix printer!) If the NCD's have interfaces *other* than: 10Base2+AUI or 10BaseTX (that's two different interfaces) -- say, perhaps, a TR interface, ROM card or PCMCIA card -- I'd be interested in them (working or not) just for the sake of having a physical device to document. Which NCD models are they? Likewise, *photos* (good quality) of the keyboards would be a win... > I'd take one or two, if you or somebody can arrange shipping (to Salford, > UK, I'd cover costs), just to play with. I have no use for all of them > though! Which are the best sort to have? Whichever you can find *software* for! :> If you're looking for *performance* (Xstones), you'll be disappointed. Most of this hardware is quite old/slow. Any modern machine running a newer version of the server will put them to shame. But, I *really* like the crispness of the display on a 19r (monochrome) when I'm just writing code... [snip] > >I used to have a plan to get hold of a decent Xterm and then stick all > >the noisy hard disks on a server in a cupboard somewhere - nice and > >quiet then! Lack of audio support on any Xterm I've come across knocked > >that idea on the head unfortunately... Been there, done that. With the exception of the Windows machine, here, every other box effectively runs headless -- I can't afford the space for monitors "waiting" to be used. Nor can I stand the *noise* from the various machines (disks, fans). Support for audio *service* is available on most NCD's -- though machines without audio *outputs* (i.e. connections) are a waste of time. E.g., you can listen to audio on a 19r though you'd best be in an anechoic chamber to "appreciate" (ha!) it. I think NCD's MCX, ECX and Explora's made audio a first class feature (though I may be wrong on that). > Microsoft's "remote desktop" under Windows XP seems to manage to send sound > to the remote client (as long as you use the right version of the client) > so I assume it must be possible.. Just needs implementing under X by > somebody.. Done long before MS. See NAS. --don From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Jul 1 10:33:24 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: I'm on my way to VCF/East! Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040701112011.00af7250@mail.30below.com> Well, I guess I'm committed! [[ Or... I should be committed! ;-) ]] I just made the reservations for Boston - I'll be there from Thursday the 15th thru Monday morning, so I plan on taking a long weekend to do some sightseeing... ... I reserved at the Mariott, and the $69/nite "pay in advance" rate is for anytime - that's not the VCF Special Rate, so if you're like me & want to make it a longer weekend, I'd recommend taking advantage of that rate. The wife wants to spend a day in Salem, and I wanna tour the Sam Adams brewery... hehehe ;-) Just thought I'd give y'all the newz... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | JC: "Like those people in Celeronville!" sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Me: "Don't you mean Silicon Valley???" zmerch@30below.com | JC: "Yea, that's the place!" | JC == Jeremy Christian From nerdware at ctgonline.org Thu Jul 1 10:58:53 2004 From: nerdware at ctgonline.org (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: Speaking of Amigas... Message-ID: <40E3EE6D.4119.9035CF@localhost> I was just given an A1000 with keyboard, mouse, and the external floppy (the external floppy seems to have "issues". This is my second A1000, but the first one is dead and was used for my public displays to show the signatures on the inside of the case. I haven't had time to plug it in and see if it boots, but I do know I'll be needing a Kickstart disk. I have the version of Workbench that came with my A500 (1.2, I think?) -- will that boot the 1000? Nice little bonus -- it also came with the genlock slab, so I'll eventually try to play with that. Also, anyone have a copy of the bouncing ball demo I can have? I've never had that, and always wanted a copy, especially since I interviewed RJ Mical several years back and talked to him about it (he's the one who wrote it.) While I'm in the process of purging most of my collection (those of you who have emailed me -- I haven't forgotten you. Life just got nutty for a while and I got behind on a lot of projects.) I'm keeping my 128K Mac and all my Amigas (2 - 500's, A1000, and an A2000). Thanks. Paul Braun Cygnus Productions nerdware@ctgonline.org "Enjoy every sandwich." -- Warren Zevon "At Microsoft, Quality is Job, oh, I dunno, maybe 7 or 8?" From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Jul 1 10:57:07 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: RK05/RL02 Boot Sequence In-Reply-To: <16612.6170.552500.656950@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Jul 2004, Paul Koning wrote: > Other PDP11 operating systems -- no idea, but changes are it's a > variation on one of these themes. All UNIXes have their file system (primary disk) boot sector loaded by the hardware bootstrap (always first sector on the disk), which then has enough brains to go through the file system and load the /boot program. This then has enough brains to load either a system kernel image (/unix) or a standalone (diagnostic) program. --f From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jul 1 11:13:42 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: XTerms + DEC stuff + misc available (Cambridge, UK) In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.0.20040701143746.03ec0db8@pop.freeserve.net> References: <1088677561.4325.52.camel@weka.localdomain> <6.1.1.1.0.20040701143746.03ec0db8@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <1088698422.4325.90.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 13:47, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > At 11:26 01/07/2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > >Still hoping somebody wants some Xterms! I think everything else has now > >found a home (unless anyone *really* wants an old dot matrix printer!) > > I'd take one or two, if you or somebody can arrange shipping (to Salford, > UK, I'd cover costs), just to play with. I have no use for all of them > though! Which are the best sort to have? Well I've seen them now today. There's a big stack of HP ones which look *old*. The Entria's still there, then there are a couple of NCD ones that look to be 88k units. What I didn't see was any screens for them :-/ I'll drop the chap an email and see whether there are displays lurking elsewhere. I have completely filled up the car with other stuff that was there though - there were a few oddball Cromemco cards and manuals for instance which looked worth saving. I need to unload the car and do a proper inventory, as I was just throwing stuff into piles to take as time was tight. Watch this space as save for a few items that are going to the museum, the bulk of it I just need to find homes for :-) > Back in the day, after having seen one, I always used to > want to make up a video wall out of BBC monitors (Microvitec Cubs are > nicely stackable) but never had anything to drive it with, nor enough > monitors! Maybe that's a project for somebody, assuming the "16 BBC type > monitors" are of this sort. Now you've spooked me. A 16 screen video wall is the plan as a museum exhibit - bar a few last minute arrangements I've got 16 Cubs lined up that I can have from another source. I've been chatting about this over on the BBC mailing list for a few weeks! My plan is to Econet 16 BBCs together in a rack, with something controlling them. Of course the hardware (and network!) is too slow for anything like moving video, but I'm thinking I can get away with hooking a video camera up to the controlling machine and let the public take still captures. Running numbers through my head, it seems to be a viable project anyway. Just a case of finding the time to actually implement it! (It started out as a simple scrolling message system, but then it had occurred to me just how stackable Cubs are too! :-) > Microsoft's "remote desktop" under Windows XP seems to manage to send sound > to the remote client (as long as you use the right version of the client) > so I assume it must be possible.. Just needs implementing under X by > somebody.. Well the other option is to network-boot Linux with a diskless PC. Given the low cost of RAM these days and the speed of networks, I assume I could just have a RAM disk of a few MB to hold the OS once running, and that could contain all drivers for the local sound card (so it's actually a diskless workstation, rather than a remote X display). I just don't have the time to put something together, and I haven't seen a good tutorial document that says how to do this (I've got a EPROM burner of course, but I have no idea what I need to actually put in the EPROM for a network card, or what I do in terms of making an OS image file on the server which is presumably then transferred to the client by the code in the network boot ROM) cheers Jules From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Jul 1 11:24:04 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Message-ID: <0407011624.AA14114@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Back in 1998 (actually more like from summer 1997 until summer 1998, i.e., the 1997-98 school year), before I started Quasijarus Project, I was searching the World high and low for a copy of the 4.3BSD tape set. That was before PUPS got its momentum with getting the $100 "Ancient UNIX" license deal from SCO, and more importantly, getting people interested in preserving and working with Original UNIX, and at that time the entire world was basically in a conspiracy of anathema against original Bell/Berkeley UNIX, everyone just wanted it to stay buried in its grave and not come up. Getting a copy of the 4.3BSD tape set seemed next to impossible. www.berkeley.edu was shockingly silent about the fact that Berkeley UNIX aka BSD, UC Berkeley's greatest accomplishment in all of its history, ever existed, much less saying how to order a tape. Finally I found a phone number and a couple of E-mail addresses for some office at UCB that was apparently kept for sending out tapes after CSRG itself was gutted. The office was basically a voice mailbox and a couple of E-mail addresses, with the two people who were actually supposed to get those E-mail and voice messages being away somewhere in San Francisco and taking a few weeks to answer inquiries. Finally they got back to me and told me to send a check for $2400 for 4.4BSD and $1000 for 4.3BSD. Ouch! And of course some murky business about licenses. At that time, however, I attended Case Western Reserve University (CWRU) and had a semi-staff relationship with their computer science department. I realised that the university must have had a UNIX source license from back in The Days, and most probably had the actual 4.3BSD tapes at some point as well, especially given that the old-timers told me that they were indeed running 11/780s before. But again the conspiracy of anathema was working: everyone had completely forgotten about it, and no one on the entire campus even knew that the university had a UNIX source license (and old-timers confirmed that indeed there was one). When spring 1998 came around, PUPS was making its debut with the $100 license deal from SCO. I didn't care so much about license stuff, but it meant a resurgence of interest in Original UNIX and a community of people involved with it, something that was completely lacking only a few months prior. I wanted access to the PUPS archive, and I wanted to use the university's license rather than fork over $100 for a personal one. The only issue was *finding* that license. Then I got a bright idea: since the license agreement was between CWRU and AT&T, there must have been copies of it on both sides. If CWRU had chosen to forget about the license they once paid big money for, how about if I dig up a copy of the license agreement from AT&T side? So I asked SCO's Dion Johnson about it, and lo and behold, a few days later a copy of CWRU's original UNIX license agreement shows up in my box in the computer science department mail room! Warren Toomey got another copy and soon I got an overseas fax from him with passwords for his PUPS Archive! Whoo-hoo! But I still needed 4.3BSD. It wasn't in Warren's archive since they were still PDP-only at that time, and me holding a copy of my school's AT&T UNIX license agreement didn't help convince anyone I knew who might have had 4.3BSD tapes to share them with me. In late 1997 I got myself an office at CWRU, it was the CES department's computer junkyard room. I was quite happy, a room full of classic computers was the best office I could get. It was actually two rooms, 411 and 412. Only 411 was accessible from the hallway, the entrance to 412 was inside 411. Both rooms were filled with classic computer gear, but 411 was a little less full and actually had some room for a desk and was usable as an office. 412, on the other hand, was *completely* filled with classic computer gear (mostly Sun 3) and it was difficult for a person to make it through to the end of the room. At the very end of room 412 (the end opposite the entrance door from 411) there was something that looked like a plastic curtain or plastic window blinds. The architecture of that building was really intriguing, the kind one finds only on good old university campuses, and I couldn't really tell if there was supposed to be a window there or not. I just never gave it much thought, and it was too difficult to climb over all that Sun 3 gear in the way to see exactly what it was. On a shelf in room 411 there were some magtape reels, and I thought that if they ever had 4.3BSD tapes, they ought to be there. But I looked through all the tapes I could see and 4.3BSD wasn't there. Bummer. Then one day in summer 1998 I came to work in the morning, went up the stairs to my beloved Computer Engineering and Science department 4th floor, went to the end of the hallway to my office, and got in. I turned on the lights and per my usual habit, peeked all over the room to make sure all the fun classic computers were still there. And lo and behold, at the very end of room 412, where I previously saw those plastic curtains or window blinds or whatever, I now saw two racks full of magtapes! It turned out that the plastic "curtains" were actually vertically sliding doors (kinda like garage doors) of two huge magtape cabinets! Another staff member must have had a need to get some old magtape and didn't close the cabinet after he was done. With trembling hands, I raced there and started looking through all the tapes. And sure enough, in a few minutes I found all 3 tapes of the 4.3BSD 1600 BPI distribution. I spent pretty much the whole year prior to that moment searching the World high and low for 4.3BSD tapes when they were sitting the whole time in my own office! Now that's a "Duh!" moment. MS From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Jul 1 11:44:40 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: XTerms + DEC stuff + misc available (Cambridge, UK) In-Reply-To: <1088677561.4325.52.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1088677561.4325.52.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200407011646.MAA11874@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Still hoping somebody wants some Xterms! Well, heck, I want some Xterms. I just don't want Xterms badly enough to pay shipping acros the pond. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Thu Jul 1 11:56:42 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: XTerms + DEC stuff + misc available (Cambridge, UK) In-Reply-To: <1088698422.4325.90.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1088677561.4325.52.camel@weka.localdomain> <6.1.1.1.0.20040701143746.03ec0db8@pop.freeserve.net> <1088698422.4325.90.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.0.20040701174817.0443f210@pop.freeserve.net> At 17:13 01/07/2004, you wrote: >[xterms] > >Well I've seen them now today. There's a big stack of HP ones which look >*old*. The Entria's still there, then there are a couple of NCD ones >that look to be 88k units. What I didn't see was any screens for them >:-/ > >I'll drop the chap an email and see whether there are displays lurking >elsewhere. Well no worries if they are no good (someone else mentioned software is needed?? I've never played with an x-term, so was just something else ot put in the pile of "cool things I should play with someday when I have infinate time" ! > > Back in the day, after having seen one, I always used to > > want to make up a video wall out of BBC monitors (Microvitec Cubs are > > nicely stackable) but never had anything to drive it with, nor enough > > monitors! Maybe that's a project for somebody, assuming the "16 BBC type > > monitors" are of this sort. > >Now you've spooked me. A 16 screen video wall is the plan as a museum >exhibit - bar a few last minute arrangements I've got 16 Cubs lined up >that I can have from another source. I've been chatting about this over >on the BBC mailing list for a few weeks! lol. :-) I didn't know, honest! Where is this list, might be of interest to me. Although this one is about the only mailing list I actually read daily, out of the several I am subscribed to. >My plan is to Econet 16 BBCs together in a rack, with something >controlling them. Of course the hardware (and network!) is too slow for >anything like moving video, but I'm thinking I can get away with hooking >a video camera up to the controlling machine and let the public take >still captures. Sounds good :-) Why not do some simple games too? Something as basic as 'pong' should be easy? or ... I've got a touch-screen for a cub... find 15 more and you can do a "hit the pop-up beastie" game :-) >Running numbers through my head, it seems to be a viable project anyway. >Just a case of finding the time to actually implement it! (It started >out as a simple scrolling message system, but then it had occurred to me >just how stackable Cubs are too! :-) 16 monitors makes a nice 4x4 matrix - probably what made us both think of it. > > Microsoft's "remote desktop" under Windows XP seems to manage to send > sound > > to the remote client (as long as you use the right version of the client) > > so I assume it must be possible.. Just needs implementing under X by > > somebody.. > >Well the other option is to network-boot Linux with a diskless PC. Given >the low cost of RAM these days and the speed of networks, I assume I >could just have a RAM disk of a few MB to hold the OS once running, and >that could contain all drivers for the local sound card (so it's >actually a diskless workstation, rather than a remote X display). I imagine that would work. I've used several single-floppy linux and unix distros that work in a similar way (unpack into a ramdisc) >I just don't have the time to put something together, and I haven't seen >a good tutorial document that says how to do this (I've got a EPROM >burner of course, but I have no idea what I need to actually put in the >EPROM for a network card, or what I do in terms of making an OS image >file on the server which is presumably then transferred to the client by >the code in the network boot ROM) http://www.etherboot.org/ looks like it may help you here, at least for x86 clients. Rob. From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Jul 1 12:07:21 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: HP LaserJet IIP parts In-Reply-To: <380-22004426154545430@buckeye-express.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040701120655.02372130@mail.ubanproductions.com> Thanks for the priner parts Paul! I will put a check into the mail today... --tnx --tom At 11:45 AM 4/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I am about to toss a couple of non-working HP LaserJet IIP printers. >Does anyone need IIP parts like the paper tray, fusor, memory card, >etc? > >-- >Paul >Monroe, Michigan USA From paul at frixxon.co.uk Thu Jul 1 12:23:03 2004 From: paul at frixxon.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... In-Reply-To: <0407011624.AA14114@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0407011624.AA14114@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <40E44877.4050506@frixxon.co.uk> Michael Sokolov wrote: > It turned out that the plastic "curtains" > were actually vertically sliding doors (kinda like garage doors) of > two huge magtape cabinets! Another staff member must have had a need > to get some old magtape and didn't close the cabinet after he was done. You are not the real Michael Sokolov. *He* would have attributed the mysterious reappearance of the tapes to aliens from the planet EnufZnuf; you know, the cousins of the ones who shot JFK and kidnapped Elvis. -- Paul (I know, I shouldn't encourage him.) From waisun.chia at hp.com Thu Jul 1 11:04:15 2004 From: waisun.chia at hp.com (Wai-Sun Chia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow 100 manuals? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40E435FF.2000607@hp.com> Don Maslin wrote: > > On Wed, 30 Jun 2004, wai-sun chia wrote: > > >>Hello list, >>Anybody has the manuals (tif/pdf) or software (RX50 images) for >>the DEC Rainbow 100? > > > Are TeleDisk images for the disks OK? Thanks, but I don't need it anymore. Lost the bid, drats! But what the heck, who knows what the future may bring. Someday I might just take up your offer. :-) /wai-sun From waisun.chia at hp.com Thu Jul 1 11:37:32 2004 From: waisun.chia at hp.com (Wai-Sun Chia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: PDP OS Boot Sequence: WAS Re: RK05/RL02 Boot Sequence In-Reply-To: <16612.6170.552500.656950@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <20040701084410.D4FA7790052@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> <16612.6170.552500.656950@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <40E43DCC.7040307@hp.com> Any ideas as to where can I get more details on the various OSes boot sequence on the PDP11? Should have details like what disk block goes to which core address, how to find/load/jump to the kernel..etc. Paul Koning wrote: >>>>>>"wai-sun" == wai-sun chia writes: > > > wai-sun> Hello list, I'm trying to figure out the boot sequence on > wai-sun> both the RK05 and RL02 drive from a PDP. Here's how I > wai-sun> understand it so far: > > wai-sun> 1. Get the bootstrap in core either via the FP or PTR. > wai-sun> 2. Execute bootstrap and pull in the absolute loader from > wai-sun> 1st. sector of 512 bytes or 256 words; i.e. copy 1st. sector > wai-sun> of drive to core starting from 0 3. Execute absolute loader > wai-sun> by a JMP 0. 4. ??? What happens next ??? > > Typically, what happens next is that more initialization code is read > in from the disk. How much and where it comes from depends on the OS. > > For example, in RT11 the bootstrap is 2 blocks long (block 2 is the > rest). It reads the directory to find the kernel and loads that, then > jumps to it. (Give or take some handwaving; Megan can improve on this > in her sleep...) > > In RSTS, the bootstrap contains a list of disk blocks where the > init.sys program lives; first it moves itself up into high memory and > then it reads init.sys using that table, and jumps to the entry > point. Init.sys finds all the hardware, does all sorts of setup, and > finally loads the OS. > > IAS and RSX-11D have a saved memory image; the boot loader loads that > and then fakes a powerfail interrupt. The power restore routines then > reinitialize ths OS and drivers, and you're up. > > Other PDP11 operating systems -- no idea, but changes are it's a > variation on one of these themes. > > paul > -- a8888b. d888888b. 8P"YP"Y88 Wai-Sun "Squidster" Chia 8|o||o|88 Technical Consultant (RHCE) 8' .88 Linux/Unix Development 8`._.' Y8. Consulting & Integration d/ `8b. HP Services Malaysia dP . Y8b. d8:' " `::88b d8" 'Y88b :8P ' :888 8a. : _a88P ._/"Yaa_: .| 88P| \ YP" `| 8P `. / \.___.d| .' `--..__)8888P`._.' "Phear the Penguins!" "I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect." - Linus Torvalds - From Watzman at neo.rr.com Thu Jul 1 12:02:54 2004 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: Intriguing stuff on eBay In-Reply-To: <200407011705.i61H4Chg061761@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <200407011702.i61H2mlp003133@ms-smtp-02-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> The manual for the OP-80 paper tape reader is available for download on the internet at no cost, and has been for some time (years), from multiple sources. It's on Howard's site, however, which may be the quickest and easiest way to get it. These are surprisingly valuable, on a few occasions they have gone for over $100 on E-Bay, although $40-$70 is probably more common (that's for the reader itself, of course, not simply the manual). From Watzman at neo.rr.com Thu Jul 1 12:07:53 2004 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: Datasheet needed, 5204 EPROM In-Reply-To: <200407011705.i61H4Chg061761@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <200407011707.i61H7lJX021299@ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> I need a datasheet for a 5204 EPROM (I'll settle for a pinout if no one has a complete data sheet). This is 512 bytes x 8, it's essentially half of a 2708. Now for a big question, does anyone know if it can be programmed in a Cromemco Bytesaver II ??? The Bytesaver II board was for 2708's; the early documentation for the original Bytesaver (not the "II") suggested that the original Bytesaver could program 2704's also (same size as a 5204), but never went into a discussion of how to do it (the sockets assume 1k 2708's), and those references are dropped from the Bytesaver II manual. Thanks. From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Jul 1 12:39:31 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: PDP OS Boot Sequence: WAS Re: RK05/RL02 Boot Sequence References: <20040701084410.D4FA7790052@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> <16612.6170.552500.656950@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <40E43DCC.7040307@hp.com> Message-ID: <16612.19539.934111.332282@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Wai-Sun" == Wai-Sun Chia writes: Wai-Sun> Any ideas as to where can I get more details on the various Wai-Sun> OSes boot sequence on the PDP11? Wai-Sun> Should have details like what disk block goes to which core Wai-Sun> address, how to find/load/jump to the kernel..etc. Maybe in the system internals manual for the OS in question, if there is one, and if it goes that deep. I don't think the RSTS one goes that deep, though. The only real answer is "Use the source, Luke". paul From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Jul 1 10:38:56 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040701070445.0091ce90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <200407010200.WAA26842@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <200407010200.WAA26842@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <3.0.6.32.20040701070445.0091ce90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040701173856.4479f038.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 07:04:45 -0400 "Joe R." wrote: > He merely said "let that be a lesson, allways check the breakers > yourself". I've never frogotten that! ... and after checking the breaker, get out a volt meter to check if it was the right breaker... An other story: A colleague was screwing in a new "DIAZED" fuse into a breaker panel. BANG! Parts of the fuse flew acros the workshop, a cloud of smoke came out of the panel and all lights where out. We had to replace two big 63 A "NH" fuses that where in front of that breaker panel. "NH" fuses need a _lot_ overcurrent to blow that fast. At close inspection of the breaker panel we saw traces of a wire that had shortend two of the three phases (400 V) and ground. The wire was vaporized. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Jul 1 12:51:43 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 01 Jul 2004 15:22:36 BST." <8e33b5c74c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <200407011751.SAA32382@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Philip Pemberton said: > If the British Government continue with their > plans to force everyone onto digital TV (i.e. "pay ?120 per year for the 'TV > licence' plus an extra ?20 p/m for the DTV sub"), the TVs and VCRs are going. Digital tv is free*, you just need the little box - if it wasn't free *I* wouldn't have it, I object to the idea of having to pay to watch adverts :-) Digital has 89 no-cost channels, including radio, at the moment, plus a few subscription ones. * Apart from the normal licence fee of cource, but that's another argument! -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jul 1 13:42:13 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: HP hardware available and wanted list Message-ID: <008c01c45f9b$203aa3a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> HP 2109E cpu (21MX/E), chassis, power supply, front panel HP 2113E cpu (21MX/E), chassis, power supply, front panel HP 2108M cpu (21MX/M), chassis, power supply, front panel The 2109 and 2113 are available immediately. The 2108 I will get rid of eventually, just not sure if I'll get rid of it now or in about 6 months. All are untested and dirty. The 2109 and 2113 will clean up nicely. The 2108 is a hard luck case and a major restoration job. The 2109 and 2113 have cpu keys, but someone glued them in or they are stuck. The key works fine, you just can't take the key out. The 2108 has no key. I will test and clean them first if I get a chance. No I/O or memory cards included. Some memory and/or I/O cards will probably be available from me at a later date. I will also have some as yet undetermined quantity of HSFCA memory boards available (not usable as main memory, just ECC) Also available - HP 21MX 12979A rackmount I/O expansion unit Items I'm looking for... HP 12920/12921/12922 three PCA Multiplexor set HP 2102E high speed memory controller PCA qty 2 HP 13210A disc interface PCA for spare HP 12597A 8 bit duplex register boards qty 2 HP 12531C or D HS terminal or Buffered TTY PCA (qty 1 or 2) HP Blank PROMS for 21MX loader roms HP Blank PROMS for 21MX microcode roms DSI 2400 paper tape reader/punch OR... ... RS232 interface board for Facit 4070 Data General 6030/6031 8" floppy drive Data General Paper Tape reader, don't know the model number, for Nova and Eclipse Any spare Data General Nova/Eclipse boards (Nova 3, Eclipse S/130 or S/200), primarily cpu sets, disk, cassette, memory Data General 6045 disc drive DEC H212 8K core memory plane for 8E DEC M7891-D 128KW for 11/45 (qty 2) Microdata M1600, M2000, or Reality Royale system Honeywell DPS-6 system Jay West PS - Bob, now that I've been using the 21MX front panel for a while, I gotta tell ya, I prefer using the 2100 front panel. What's this "store" button crap? *GRIN* --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jul 1 13:47:57 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: DEC 11/45 switches needed Message-ID: <009601c45f9b$ed667160$033310ac@kwcorp.com> In the not too distant future I should be starting my 11/45 restoration project. In anticipation of that.... My 11/45 front panel has a number of switches that dont work. The normal failure mode of the switch covers breaking is not the case here. My problem is the actual switches on the PCA under the switch covers. They have disintegrated the way I've seen C&K switches do before. I went looking for C&K switches a long while back for an unrelated project and had trouble finding them. I could just locate a whole new front panel, but those get a huge premium on ebay. I'd just rather find the switches and solder new ones in place. Does anyone know exactly what switch the 45 uses, and where a source for them might be? Thanks in advance, Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Jul 1 14:08:09 2004 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes( Actually shipping overseas) Message-ID: About 10 years ago I attempted to ship some donated medical equipment from Kansas City to China for one of our visiting Chinese doctors. There were brand new but expired medical supplies, needles and catheters, no chemicals. I used a very sturdy computer monitor box and packed the entire box full. There was no extra packing just the packaging the supplies were enclosed in. Well taped and sent express mail. First attempt hit US customs in California and was returned because I shouldn't ship "medical waste" via mail. I made the mistake of declaring the stuff to be medical scrap, since we were going to trash it. I then declared the items to be sterile, stainless steel and plastic, unused and resent them. They returned in about a week because I hadn't declared an itemized list of all items enclosed. I then opened the box and counted every one of the sterile needles, syringes, catheters and made a total list which was attached to the paperwork. There were over 1,000 items in the box. I still left the value at $0. The box came back again from California since who would pay over $100 shipping on worthless items. I was mad then. I called up UPS and sent it airfreight express and it went through without a hitch. The doctor on the other end ended up paying over $200 in duty since there were so many items and they must each be worth a least $1. I think the transport brokers have a lock on the "inside track" which makes shipping easier. I was also going to send a complete set of medical journals but I was tired of the hassle. Mike From allain at panix.com Thu Jul 1 14:17:39 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: Whatta you do with all these durned PeeCees? References: <1088677561.4325.52.camel@weka.localdomain><6.1.1.1.0.20040701143746.03ec0db8@pop.freeserve.net> <1088698422.4325.90.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <018401c45fa0$13b5bca0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Just as a matter of note, while collecting PC's for some linux work, I accumulated nearly 10, 2 of which I really needed. Some great monitors too, all from local dumps. So, what do you do all the extras? National Cristina Foundation, http://www.cristina.org said it could take up to 2 weeks to place my machines. Instead it took only one day... They found a local charity who themselves want to send 1000 PC's to South Africa. No crushing, no melting, no eBay. I'm happy. Any the recipients will be doing Linux, not MS. ;} John A. Sorry to make it look like an advert, but the experience went well. From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Jul 1 14:19:15 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: DEC 11/45 switches needed References: <009601c45f9b$ed667160$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <16612.25523.372152.971686@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jay" == Jay West writes: Jay> In the not too distant future I should be starting my 11/45 Jay> restoration project. In anticipation of that.... Jay> My 11/45 front panel has a number of switches that dont Jay> work. The normal failure mode of the switch covers breaking is Jay> not the case here. My problem is the actual switches on the PCA Jay> under the switch covers. They have disintegrated the way I've Jay> seen C&K switches do before. I went looking for C&K switches a Jay> long while back for an unrelated project and had trouble finding Jay> them. Jay> I could just locate a whole new front panel, but those get a Jay> huge premium on ebay. I'd just rather find the switches and Jay> solder new ones in place. Does anyone know exactly what switch Jay> the 45 uses, and where a source for them might be? They look like ordinary miniature toggle switches, with a toggle whose size adequately matches the size of the hole in the switch handle. Chances are pretty much any switch that size from Radio Shack or the like will do just as well. You may need to do some mechanical magic to attach the clips that hold the plastic switch handles onto the toggle switch body. paul From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jul 1 14:36:31 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: SWTPC board Message-ID: <1088710590.4325.154.camel@weka.localdomain> I'm starting to make progress in going through the carload of stuff I rescued earlier. For starters: One of the things I found in the heap was a SWTPC CPU board. I know nothing about them, but it looked interesting enough to be worth saving from an unknown fate. However, the board's different to the one at: http://www.computercloset.org/SWTPC6800.htm This one has 5 larger IC sockets along the top edge, the leftmost of which is populated. there are two 7805 regulators toward the centre of the board at the bottom. Bus is 50 pins, just like the card in the above photo - SW-50 I guess. There was no sign of a case for the board, backplane, or any other cards though. Anyone know what the different board variations are? This one says "MP-A2" in the top right corner along with a copyright symbol. Build date looks to be mid-to-late 1977. On the back, written in pencil, is "MRC original board" (which probably doesn't mean anything to anyone!) cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jul 1 14:44:34 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: SANG A2000 prototype card Message-ID: <1088711073.4325.161.camel@weka.localdomain> Next oddball find: A board (about the size of a full-length ISA card) labelled as: "A2000 Prototype Card V1.1", "Interface Megavision / Megalink", "c+p 1988 by SANG Computersysteme GmbH" Bus is 100 pins (50 each side of the board). There's a handful of buffer and PAL chips right by the bus connector, but otherwise it's a blank prototype card. There's a ten pin IDC board-mounted socket in the bottom-right corner. Any ideas what / where / why / when? :-) cheers, Jules From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Jul 1 14:50:35 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: Datasheet needed, 5204 EPROM Message-ID: <200407011950.MAA25455@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Barry Watzman" > >I need a datasheet for a 5204 EPROM (I'll settle for a pinout if no one has >a complete data sheet). > >This is 512 bytes x 8, it's essentially half of a 2708. > >Now for a big question, does anyone know if it can be programmed in a >Cromemco Bytesaver II ??? The Bytesaver II board was for 2708's; the early >documentation for the original Bytesaver (not the "II") suggested that the >original Bytesaver could program 2704's also (same size as a 5204), but >never went into a discussion of how to do it (the sockets assume 1k 2708's), >and those references are dropped from the Bytesaver II manual. > >Thanks. Hi I'm not at all sure about programming the 5204 or if it even is pin compatible with the 2708. The 2704 is program and pin compatible with the 2708. You just program 1/2 the address space. The algorithm is the same for both the 2708 and the 2704, otherwise. Dwight From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Jul 1 15:02:38 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: DEC 11/45 switches needed In-Reply-To: <16612.25523.372152.971686@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <009601c45f9b$ed667160$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040701150034.02375d70@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 03:19 PM 7/1/2004 -0400, you wrote: > >>>>> "Jay" == Jay West writes: > > Jay> In the not too distant future I should be starting my 11/45 > Jay> restoration project. In anticipation of that.... > > Jay> My 11/45 front panel has a number of switches that dont > Jay> work. The normal failure mode of the switch covers breaking is > Jay> not the case here. My problem is the actual switches on the PCA > Jay> under the switch covers. They have disintegrated the way I've > Jay> seen C&K switches do before. I went looking for C&K switches a > Jay> long while back for an unrelated project and had trouble finding > Jay> them. > > Jay> I could just locate a whole new front panel, but those get a > Jay> huge premium on ebay. I'd just rather find the switches and > Jay> solder new ones in place. Does anyone know exactly what switch > Jay> the 45 uses, and where a source for them might be? > >They look like ordinary miniature toggle switches, with a toggle whose >size adequately matches the size of the hole in the switch handle. >Chances are pretty much any switch that size from Radio Shack or the >like will do just as well. You may need to do some mechanical magic >to attach the clips that hold the plastic switch handles onto the >toggle switch body. > > paul Yep, the switch has the clip/backet which holds the large plastic toggle attached to it. The markings on an original switch are: 7121 C&K 0.4VA MAX. --tom From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jul 1 15:07:46 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: SANG A2000 prototype card In-Reply-To: <1088711073.4325.161.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1088711073.4325.161.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1088712466.4325.168.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 19:44, Jules Richardson wrote: > Next oddball find: As Alistair points out, it is just as simple as being a prototype board for the Amiga 2000. Next question is, does anyone want it for any homebrew projects? (Shipping overseas might be somewhat uneconomical for what it is!) cheers, Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jul 1 15:16:02 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: Unknown S100 card... Message-ID: <1088712962.4325.180.camel@weka.localdomain> Random S100 board in the pile. Says "(c)1976 I.P.C" on the underside, but there's nothing else by way of identification. No obvious function for the card, but there's a few empty sockets on the board though: 1 x 40 pins (CPU?) 4 x 18 pins (memory?) 3 x 24 pins (ROM?) Any ideas? ta, Jules From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Jul 1 14:25:05 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:04 2005 Subject: vaxstation 3100 memory? Message-ID: <200407011925.i61JP5V02806@mwave.heeltoe.com> vaxstation newbie question: How hard is it to find vaxstation 3100 memory? I'm finding the 4mb on-board memory is a little, eh - small - for my needs. Seems like there are 4 "tower headers" on the motherboard which will allow me to add some more... Is that memory hard to find? Anyone have any lying around? -brad From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jul 1 16:14:28 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: VCF East, ASR33 help wanted References: <00a701c45ded$090d37b0$99100f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <40E47EB4.9030703@tiac.net> I have a ASR 33, well, HP's version. It was in working condition with the exception of the paper tape reader having a bad bit, so it was taken out of service about 10 years ago. Its complete with the interface cable for an HP 1000 series mini. And I do have a Vendor booth at VCF East. Ashley Carder wrote: >Is there going to be a vendor nearby with a supply of ASR-33 >parts if needed? > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "David V. Corbin" >To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > >Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 11:15 AM >Subject: RE: VCF East, ASR33 help wanted > > >>I can provide an additional ASR-33 that could use the same...... >> >> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>>>>[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Carder >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 11:05 AM >>>>>To: wh.sudbrink@verizon.net; General Discussion: On-Topic >>>>>and Off-Topic Posts >>>>>Subject: Re: VCF East, ASR33 help wanted >>>>> >>>>>I've been toying with the idea of driving from South >>>>>Carolina to Boston for the VCF. This ASR33 break-down and >>>>>rebuild exhibit/contest sounds like it would be worth the drive! >>>>> >>>>>If I come, I might be a spectator or maybe even bring my >>>>>camcorder and tape the activity. >>>>> >>>>>- Ashley >>>>> >>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: "Bill Sudbrink" >>>>>To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >>>>> >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 10:50 AM >>>>>Subject: VCF East, ASR33 help wanted >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I have an ASR33 that exhibits the following symptoms in >>>>>> >>>>>local mode (I >>>>> >>>>>>have not attempted to test online): >>>>>> >>>>>>1) Paper will not advance (roller seems to move OK when turned >>>>>> by hand) >>>>>>2) Bell will not ring >>>>>>3) When at the start of a line (carriage to the left) it will >>>>>> over print several characters before it starts moving to >>>>>> the right >>>>>>4) Carriage returns very slowly and sometimes does not make it >>>>>> all the way back >>>>>>5) Filthy inside (although not as bad as when I got it... I've >>>>>> vacuumed and blown a lot of crud out of it) >>>>>>6) Smells a little funky... not the clean warm oil smell that >>>>>> I remember from high school days >>>>>> >>>>>>As well as being dirty, I suspect that it was improperly >>>>>> >>>>>lubricated by >>>>> >>>>>>the previous owner as it seems to be particularly sticky inside. >>>>>> >>>>>>I also have a nearly new KSR33 from the same source that was >>>>>>improperly handled to the extent that its plastic shell >>>>>> >>>>>was shattered >>>>> >>>>>>(it was in a cardboard box with some newspaper, none of >>>>>> >>>>>the shipping >>>>> >>>>>>bolts in place, and apparently roughly moved around his >>>>>> >>>>>ham shack). I >>>>> >>>>>>have made no attempt to power up the KSR (in case stuff >>>>>> >>>>>got bent) but >>>>> >>>>>>I think that it could be used as a source of replacements >>>>>> >>>>>if some of >>>>> >>>>>>the parts of the ASR are badly worn. >>>>>> >>>>>>I would like to recruit 3 or 4 knowledgeable and highly motivated >>>>>>classiccmpers (motivated by the prospect of DINNER and >>>>>> >>>>>BEER on me) at >>>>> >>>>>>VCF East to completely tear down, clean, adjust, lubricate and >>>>>>reassemble the ASR. I will supply all of the tools and materials >>>>>>(unless you have special purpose tools that will help). >>>>>> >>>>>I picture a >>>>> >>>>>>marathon operation, with the experts doing the >>>>>> >>>>>disassembly, assembly >>>>> >>>>>>and adjustment work and me with a toothbrush and a pan of >>>>>> >>>>>Simple Green >>>>> >>>>>>(or alcohol or kerosene or whatever solvent the experts >>>>>>suggest) busily scrubbing parts as they are handed to me. >>>>>> >>>>> With four >>>>> >>>>>>guys and one scrubber, could this be accomplished in a couple of >>>>>>hours? >>>>>> >>>>>>Why don't I do this myself? >>>>>> >>>>>>1) I don't really have the space. Having the entire interior of a >>>>>> hotel room to myself will be something of a luxury to >>>>>> >>>>>me (I have >>>>> >>>>>> two kids). Or maybe I can ask Sellam for some space at the >>>>>> festival and we can make it a spectator sport. It could even >>>>>> become sort of a challenge... >>>>>> "The crew at VCF East was able to rebuild an ASR33 in >>>>>> >>>>>two hours, >>>>> >>>>>> how fast can the West or Europe do it?" >>>>>>2) I don't have the unbroken periods of time. I have the >>>>>> >>>>>fear that I >>>>> >>>>>> would get it all apart, have one of my all too frequent family >>>>>> "emergencies" and then have to pack it up, resulting >>>>>> >>>>>in lost parts >>>>> >>>>>> when I finally get back to it. >>>>>>3) I'm a gutless wimp. If I get it apart, I'm not sure I >>>>>> >>>>>could get >>>>> >>>>>> it all back together, even with the docs. I have >>>>>> >>>>>original prints >>>>> >>>>>> of some of the docs and the rest in electronic form. >>>>>> >>>>>>Email me if interested, >>>>>>Thanks, >>>>>>Bill >>>>>> >>>>> > > > From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jul 1 16:16:35 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: VCF East, ASR33 help wanted References: <20040629170539.68290.qmail@web52801.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40E47F33.9020304@tiac.net> Ok, anyone bring a HP 21MX machine to VCF and I'll debug, repair and configure the machine to the point where it will boot HPBASIC or HP-IPL/OS at the show! evan wrote: >Rather than a contest, you should rebuild the computer in the VCF exhibit hall. > Sure, some attendees will get in the way, but I bet it'd be a great draw. > >--- Bill Sudbrink wrote: > >>I have an ASR33 that exhibits the following symptoms in local >>mode (I have not attempted to test online): >> >>1) Paper will not advance (roller seems to move OK when turned >> by hand) >>2) Bell will not ring >>3) When at the start of a line (carriage to the left) it will >> over print several characters before it starts moving to >> the right >>4) Carriage returns very slowly and sometimes does not make it >> all the way back >>5) Filthy inside (although not as bad as when I got it... I've >> vacuumed and blown a lot of crud out of it) >>6) Smells a little funky... not the clean warm oil smell that >> I remember from high school days >> >>As well as being dirty, I suspect that it was improperly >>lubricated by the previous owner as it seems to be particularly >>sticky inside. >> >>I also have a nearly new KSR33 from the same source that was >>improperly handled to the extent that its plastic shell was >>shattered (it was in a cardboard box with some newspaper, none >>of the shipping bolts in place, and apparently roughly moved >>around his ham shack). I have made no attempt to power up the >>KSR (in case stuff got bent) but I think that it could be used >>as a source of replacements if some of the parts of the ASR are >>badly worn. >> >>I would like to recruit 3 or 4 knowledgeable and highly motivated >>classiccmpers (motivated by the prospect of DINNER and BEER on me) >>at VCF East to completely tear down, clean, adjust, lubricate and >>reassemble the ASR. I will supply all of the tools and materials >>(unless you have special purpose tools that will help). I picture >>a marathon operation, with the experts doing the disassembly, >>assembly and adjustment work and me with a toothbrush and a pan of >>Simple Green (or alcohol or kerosene or whatever solvent the experts >>suggest) busily scrubbing parts as they are handed to me. With four >>guys and one scrubber, could this be accomplished in a couple of >>hours? >> >>Why don't I do this myself? >> >>1) I don't really have the space. Having the entire interior of a >> hotel room to myself will be something of a luxury to me (I have >> two kids). Or maybe I can ask Sellam for some space at the >> festival and we can make it a spectator sport. It could even >> become sort of a challenge... >> "The crew at VCF East was able to rebuild an ASR33 in two hours, >> how fast can the West or Europe do it?" >>2) I don't have the unbroken periods of time. I have the fear that I >> would get it all apart, have one of my all too frequent family >> "emergencies" and then have to pack it up, resulting in lost parts >> when I finally get back to it. >>3) I'm a gutless wimp. If I get it apart, I'm not sure I could get >> it all back together, even with the docs. I have original prints >> of some of the docs and the rest in electronic form. >> >>Email me if interested, >>Thanks, >>Bill >> >> > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jul 1 16:02:51 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: VCF East, ASR33 help wanted References: <00a701c45ded$090d37b0$99100f14@mcothran1> <40E47EB4.9030703@tiac.net> Message-ID: <010801c45fae$c5c22600$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Bob wrote... > I have a ASR 33, well, HP's version. Bob... I have an ASR33 that is NOT customized for hooking up to an HP, and I'd like to hook mine up to an HP. So I'd love to know just what was changed, pinouts for that cable, etc... cause someday I'll try to hook it up to a 2100 cpu. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jul 1 16:05:07 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: VCF East, ASR33 help wanted References: <20040629170539.68290.qmail@web52801.mail.yahoo.com> <40E47F33.9020304@tiac.net> Message-ID: <010e01c45faf$166d64c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Bob wrote... > Ok, anyone bring a HP 21MX machine to VCF and I'll debug, repair and > configure the > machine to the point where it will boot HPBASIC or HP-IPL/OS at the show! ok, so if one of my 21MX's I just offered on the list has mouse stuff and acorns in it, you'll clean it for me too? Awesome! *GRIN* Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From ghldbrd at xpres.ccp.com Thu Jul 1 16:20:24 2004 From: ghldbrd at xpres.ccp.com (ghldbrd@xpres.ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: Speaking of Amigas... In-Reply-To: <40E3EE6D.4119.9035CF@localhost> References: <40E3EE6D.4119.9035CF@localhost> Message-ID: <2670.65.123.179.116.1088716824.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> > I was just given an A1000 with keyboard, mouse, and the external floppy > (the external floppy seems to have "issues". This is my second A1000, but > the first one is dead and was used for my public displays to show the > signatures on the inside of the case. You may need to put the floppy guts in the A1000 if the internal drive is TU, as it only boots off the inside floppy, called DF0: If it is an A1010 floppy you're okay. Or you can hack a standard DSDD 3.5" floppy in, but you'll have to fiddlefutz with the jumpers to make it work correctly. > > I haven't had time to plug it in and see if it boots, but I do know I'll > be > needing a Kickstart disk. I have the version of Workbench that came with > my A500 (1.2, I think?) -- will that boot the 1000? You will need TWO disks -- Kickstart and Workbench, 1.3 was the latest version that worked in the A1000. A third disk was supplied, that also had Amiga Basic, ABasic. > > Nice little bonus -- it also came with the genlock slab, so I'll > eventually try to > play with that. Okay, just be warned that the clocking pulses for the Amiga come from the genlocked signal, which means that a VCR with breakup in the tape will hang the computer. A nice steady video signal is best. > > Also, anyone have a copy of the bouncing ball demo I can have? I've never > had that, and always wanted a copy, especially since I interviewed RJ > Mical > several years back and talked to him about it (he's the one who wrote it.) I think that was one of the old AMICUS disks, I think I have it and could make a copy. > > While I'm in the process of purging most of my collection (those of you > who > have emailed me -- I haven't forgotten you. Life just got nutty for a > while > and I got behind on a lot of projects.) I'm keeping my 128K Mac and all my > Amigas (2 - 500's, A1000, and an A2000). > > Thanks. > > > Paul Braun From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jul 1 17:28:52 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: HP I/O Extender available References: <003001c45f2d$4951ef50$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <40E49024.7040802@tiac.net> YES! Jay West wrote: >HP 12979B I/O extender - If anyone wants one let me know. > >Jay > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 1 17:09:01 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Jul 1, 4 09:25:20 am Message-ID: > > My favorite: (on-topic, but not computer-related) > > Car starter motor is really weak, finally just won't turn > over. Lights dim and all when I turn the key. OK, $65 new battery. > Same symptom. Sigh. Well, battery was old anyway. Must be the > starter motor. $75 new starter motor, and some time under the hood. Starter motors can be stripped and rebuilt (I've done it -- replaced brushes, skimmed the commutator (you don't undercut the insulation on a starter motor commutator, BTW) -- to save the cost of a new one). > Same symptom. When are people going to learn that you do tests and make mesurements before replaceing parts. In this case, voltage tests directly across the battery terminals would have shown that the battery was OK, and a voltage test at the starter motor terminal would have shown the voltage drop in the cable/connections. Another useful trick is to measure the voltage across the earth strap using the 200mV range of a DMM. This will give an idea of the current flow in/out of the battery (effectlvely using the earth strap as a shunt), and can be used to ensure the alternator is actually charging the battery. You can turn on loads of known current (like headlights) to calibrate this measurement if you want to. > Drat! Now who knows what's broken? Start tracing power > wiring, to see what other boxes are in between....after a few minutes > of this, the positive lead from the battery *comes off in my hand*, > leaving the clamp still attached to the battery post. > Doh. A really nasty version of this happens when battery acid creeps inside the insulation of the battery cables. It will then corrode the wire, and leave a poor, high-resistance connection that will drive you insane. Two other car electrical faults that have caught me... Firstly, on a lot of UK cars the starter solenoid has 2 windings. One takes about 17A and is used to pull the core in. The other takes about 4A and is used to hold it in. Now the former is earthed via the starter motor (the resistance of this is _very_ low -- remember the stall current is often over 1000A). and is effectively shorted out by the solenoid contacts to turn it off when the solenoid pulls in. What this means is that the solenoid won't pull in if the starter is open-circuit, e.g. due to worn or sticking brushes. This does not seem to be well known -- certainly the so-called expert from the breakdown company didn't know it. I only figured it out when I looked very carefully at the schematic and started checking resistances of various components. The other one concerns the alternator. In a lot of cases, the startup supply for the field winding comes via the idiot light. This has 2 implications. Firstly, if the bulb burns out, then often the alternator doesn't charge. Secondly, if the field winding -- and remember this is on the rotor of car alternators -- goes open circuit, or if the brush gear goes open circuit, then the idiot light doesn't come on, even though there's no chargeing. It's a really poor design (the idiot light doesn't idictate a problem for a very common failure, namely worn-out brushes), but every alternator I've worked on uses the same circuit. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 1 16:50:57 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: RK05/RL02 Boot Sequence In-Reply-To: <20040701084410.D4FA7790052@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> from "wai-sun chia" at Jul 1, 4 04:44:10 pm Message-ID: > > Hello list, > I'm trying to figure out the boot sequence on both the RK05 and RL02 drive from a PDP. Here's how I understand it so far: > > 1. Get the bootstrap in core either via the FP or PTR. Or from ROM (originally diode matrix [1]. later on bipolar PROM chips) [1] Chosen, I am told, because the user could program it without special equipment like a PROM programmer. All you needed was a pair of cutters (the 'blank' boards shipped with all the diodes fitted), and a soldering iron to correct errors. > 2. Execute bootstrap and pull in the absolute loader from 1st. sector of > 512 bytes or 256 words; > i.e. copy 1st. sector of drive to core starting from 0 > 3. Execute absolute loader by a JMP 0. > 4. ??? What happens next ??? That clearly depends on what the absolute loader consists of. Presumably that program will then load the rest of the OS from the appropriate parts of the disk. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 1 16:52:30 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: HP analyzer probes In-Reply-To: <89039dc74c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> from "Philip Pemberton" at Jul 1, 4 10:58:25 am Message-ID: > > There is just something about pencil to paper that makes the brain juices > > flow. > Same here. I really need to find somewhere that stocks logic design and > electronic design templates, though. Most of the local stationers don't stock Why? I have them and never use them. It's simply so much quicker to draw the components freehand... Why do you care about neatness of the diagram?? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 1 16:57:21 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040701070445.0091ce90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at Jul 1, 4 07:04:45 am Message-ID: > went out. After I pried myself off the ceiling I went after the so and so > electrician that had told me that the power was off. He merely said "let > that be a lesson, allways check the breakers yourself". I've never > frogotten that! If he did this as a joke, or to teach you a lesson, then it's not funny, and that idiot should be LARTed before he kills somebody. The mains (certainly not 240V mains, but 110V can be lethal too) is not a suitable subject for practical jokes. On the other hand I do agree that you should always check the power is turned off yourself. If I was working with _anyone_ else I'd always check. And while I'd never say I'd turned the power off if I hadn't, I'd expect you to check. I certainly wouldn't be offended if you did. -tony From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jul 1 17:46:57 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: HP hardware available and wanted list References: <008c01c45f9b$203aa3a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <40E49461.8010705@tiac.net> Jay West wrote: > >PS - Bob, now that I've been using the 21MX front panel for a while, I gotta >tell ya, I prefer using the 2100 front panel. What's this "store" button >crap? *GRIN* > The 2100 panel is total junk! Try a 2114 my friend, there is nothing that compares with HP's touch sensitive incandescent backlit sensors, and the hacked relay used to make the 'click' as if there was a mechanical component to the capacitive switch. But for appearance, the 2116 rules. Remember 21MX's use boot roms, the front panel is very rarely used. It was also HP's last front panel. From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Jul 1 17:44:48 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: [humor] Check this out... Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040701184401.0437d008@mail.30below.com> And you thought that HP never made wristwatches... ... let alone highly accurate ones! ;-) http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/atomic-bill/ Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Thu Jul 1 17:49:22 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners In-Reply-To: <20040701173856.4479f038.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <200407010200.WAA26842@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <200407010200.WAA26842@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <3.0.6.32.20040701070445.0091ce90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <20040701173856.4479f038.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.0.20040701232710.03e87720@pop.freeserve.net> At 16:38 01/07/2004, you wrote: >On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 07:04:45 -0400 >"Joe R." wrote: > > > He merely said "let that be a lesson, allways check the breakers > > yourself". I've never frogotten that! >.... and after checking the breaker, get out a volt meter to check if it >was the right breaker... > >An other story: A colleague was screwing in a new "DIAZED" fuse into a >breaker panel. BANG! Parts of the fuse flew acros the workshop, a cloud >of smoke came out of the panel and all lights where out. We had to >replace two big 63 A "NH" fuses that where in front of that breaker >panel. "NH" fuses need a _lot_ overcurrent to blow that fast. At close >inspection of the breaker panel we saw traces of a wire that had >shortend two of the three phases (400 V) and ground. The wire was >vaporized. >-- Talking of fuse boxes, at my last place of employment, we had a strange happening... somebody turned on an electric fan heater at the same time the kettle was on, and a seemingly random selection of sockets scattered over half the building all suddenly powered down. On investigation I discovered the following: - the building, in which we occupied the first floor (second floor, to our American readers) and where the ground floor (first floor) was empty, had obviously been one set of offices at some point, not two. - there was only one electricity supply to the whole building, one meter, and one main breaker. - the building had been extended and patched and adjusted multiple times, and the electrics in each section had been installed by taking hefty cables out to remote fuseboxes. - there were circuits for machinery and underfloor heating that didn't exist any more, but were still all connected up, just switched off. - as and when more sockets, lighting, etc, was required, they seemed to just ran cables from anywhere they felt like. I found fuseboxes in at least five different locations, and adjacent sockets in the same room could come from two or three of them!! And the reason why something blew when the kettle was turned on? A large selection of our sockets and lighting, was fed by a fusebox in an empty office downstairs. This box was fed by a hefty cable and a 60A switch from where the power came into the building. This switch was OFF. However power to the circuit was supplied instead, god knows why, by a short piece of what looked like 1.5mm2 lighting cable linking the output from that hefty switch to a 30A ring-main circuit on an adjacent panel, via a separate 13A fuse ! First time this happened, someone just replaced the 13A fuse. The second time it happened, I went to check that fuse, and noticed that this short length of cable was distinctly hot ! If it was 1.5mm cable, it would be rated for, maybe 5A? With presumably over 13A current going down it. If it wasn't for that extra fuse, the place could have gone up in smoke! Now, given we had three phase into the building, and at that point I had no idea if each end of this mad bit of cable was even on the same phase, I was a little hesitant to just throw the big 60A switch instead. The boss finally got an electrician in to sort out it out, some weeks later.. (Not that I couldn't have done it, but he never did value the skills his staff had...) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 1 17:39:25 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: Datasheet needed, 5204 EPROM In-Reply-To: <200407011707.i61H7lJX021299@ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com > References: <200407011705.i61H4Chg061761@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040701183925.009bf100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:07 PM 7/1/04 -0400, you wrote: >I need a datasheet for a 5204 EPROM (I'll settle for a pinout if no one has >a complete data sheet). > >This is 512 bytes x 8, it's essentially half of a 2708. > >Now for a big question, does anyone know if it can be programmed in a >Cromemco Bytesaver II ??? I don't know about that but I'm pretty sure that I have a plug-in for the Data_IO model 19 programmer that will do 2704s and 2708s. I also have the model 19 programmer and I think the plug-in will also work in a model 29 programmer. Joe From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jul 1 19:22:35 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: DEC 11/45 switches needed References: <009601c45f9b$ed667160$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <16612.25523.372152.971686@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <00a801c45fca$ac749310$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Paul wrote... > You may need to do some mechanical magic > to attach the clips that hold the plastic switch handles onto the > toggle switch body. Ok, can the switches be removed, and new switches bought and installed, while retaining the clips? Or, are the clips to attach the plastic handles "built into the switch"? Jay From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jul 1 19:46:32 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: HP hardware available and wanted list References: <008c01c45f9b$203aa3a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <40E49461.8010705@tiac.net> Message-ID: <00d001c45fce$0580b800$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> You're comparing a 2100 panel to a 2114/2116. I agree with you there. I was comparing the usability of the 2100 panel vs. the 21MX panel. I hate having to hit "store" each time. On the 21MX, you have to hit store when changing a register value. On the 2100, just select a different register, or hit INC M, or hit run, and the modifications are automatically stored. To get the old contents back, just press the register key again. Makes things much easier for one who works on the front panel a lot. And the front panel is used a LOT for a lot of HP diagnostics, regardless of loader roms being present or not. Just my own personal opinion :) Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Shannon" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 5:46 PM Subject: Re: HP hardware available and wanted list > > Jay West wrote: > > > > >PS - Bob, now that I've been using the 21MX front panel for a while, I gotta > >tell ya, I prefer using the 2100 front panel. What's this "store" button > >crap? *GRIN* > > > The 2100 panel is total junk! Try a 2114 my friend, there is nothing > that compares with HP's touch > sensitive incandescent backlit sensors, and the hacked relay used to > make the 'click' as if there was > a mechanical component to the capacitive switch. > > But for appearance, the 2116 rules. > > Remember 21MX's use boot roms, the front panel is very rarely used. It > was also HP's last front panel. > > From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Jul 1 20:11:13 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: XTerms + DEC stuff + misc available (Cambridge, UK) In-Reply-To: <1088677561.4325.52.camel@weka.localdomain>; from julesrichardsonuk@yahoo.co.uk on Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 10:26:02AM +0000 References: <1088677561.4325.52.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040702011113.A13933@bos6.spole.gov> On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 10:26:02AM +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 00:35, Tony Duell wrote: > > > ps. I too am curious to know what the spiky thing is! > > > > Knowing the source, and knowing what they had, I am pretty sure this is a > > DEC Unibus backplane of some flavour. > > Dammit, spoil my surprise why don't you? :-P What's the label on the side say? "DD11-DK" is the bog-standard 9-slot Unibus backplane, but it could be something specialized like an RK611 backplane or something. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 02-Jul-2004 01:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -94.0 F (-70.0 C) Windchill -135.7 F (-93.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.4 kts Grid 080 Barometer 672.1 mb (10925. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Jul 1 20:19:45 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: Speaking of Amigas... In-Reply-To: <40E3EE6D.4119.9035CF@localhost>; from nerdware@ctgonline.org on Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 10:58:53AM -0500 References: <40E3EE6D.4119.9035CF@localhost> Message-ID: <20040702011945.B13933@bos6.spole.gov> On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 10:58:53AM -0500, Paul Braun wrote: > I haven't had time to plug it in and see if it boots, but I do know I'll be > needing a Kickstart disk. I have the version of Workbench that came with > my A500 (1.2, I think?) -- will that boot the 1000? If you have a Kickstart 1.2 disk, Workbench 1.2 will work fine (as will several minor variants, 1.3.x...) -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 02-Jul-2004 01:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -94.0 F (-70.0 C) Windchill -135.7 F (-93.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.4 kts Grid 080 Barometer 672.1 mb (10925. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 1 20:24:46 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.0.20040701232710.03e87720@pop.freeserve.net> References: <20040701173856.4479f038.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <200407010200.WAA26842@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <200407010200.WAA26842@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <3.0.6.32.20040701070445.0091ce90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <20040701173856.4479f038.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040701212446.008ae100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:49 PM 7/1/04 +0100, you wrote: >At 16:38 01/07/2004, you wrote: > >>On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 07:04:45 -0400 >>"Joe R." wrote: >> >> > He merely said "let that be a lesson, allways check the breakers >> > yourself". I've never frogotten that! >>.... and after checking the breaker, get out a volt meter to check if it >>was the right breaker... >> >>An other story: A colleague was screwing in a new "DIAZED" fuse into a >>breaker panel. BANG! Parts of the fuse flew acros the workshop, a cloud >>of smoke came out of the panel and all lights where out. We had to >>replace two big 63 A "NH" fuses that where in front of that breaker >>panel. "NH" fuses need a _lot_ overcurrent to blow that fast. At close >>inspection of the breaker panel we saw traces of a wire that had >>shortend two of the three phases (400 V) and ground. The wire was >>vaporized. >>-- > > >Talking of fuse boxes, at my last place of employment, we had a strange >happening... somebody turned on an electric fan heater at the same time >the kettle was on, and a seemingly random selection of sockets scattered >over half the building all suddenly powered down. I had a similar experience when I worked in the hospital. One of the things that I was responsible for was repairs to the TVs in all the patients rooms. We once had a call about a dead TV in one room. We went there and checked it and it worked fine but the patient and nurses swore that it hadn't been working before. We couldn't find anything wrong so we left. A hour or so later we got a similar call from the room next door to the first caller. We went and checked and sure enough it was completely dead. Then just on a hunch we went next door and checked the first TV again. It was turned off so we turned it on. When we did, the one of the second room also came on! Both TVs were back to back on a common wall. After playing with them a bit we found that if either set was off it turned of both TVs. Hmmm. We finally found an open line in the wall but it still connected the two sets together however they were now in series so when you turned either one off they both went off! The surprising thing was that both sets were operating off of half their normal voltage but both worked perfectly. Joe From paulpenn at knology.net Thu Jul 1 20:40:17 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: SWTPC board References: <1088710590.4325.154.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <00e201c45fd5$87aab180$6401a8c0@knology.net> Jules; The SWTPC MPA2 CPU card is their second version. It added the sockets you see along the top to permit using up to 4 2716 EPROMS to add permanent storage. 8K BASIC was a popular choice. You'd need a bunch of other cards to make a working 6800 system, however. If that's the only one you have it might be better used for swap material. Docs for many SWTPC boards are at: www.swtpc.com but not this one, I see. I can make a copy of my manual if needed. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia From hilpert at cs.ubc.ca Thu Jul 1 20:41:38 2004 From: hilpert at cs.ubc.ca (Brent Hilpert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: SWTPC board References: <1088710590.4325.154.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <40E4BD51.C66A84BB@cs.ubc.ca> I have the MP-A2 board in a SWTPC 6800 machine. I can put the schematic and some documentation about it (memory map, config switches) up on the web if you wish. The 4 right-most sockets are for 2716 ROMs which can be variously switched into upper memory with all those config switches. The left-most socket of the 5 normally contains the monitor (mask-programmed PROM, mine is labeled SWTBUG-1.0, which, IIRC, is a modified version of Motorola's MIKBUG, actually it may have both SWTBUG and MIKBUG burned into it). If there is a 6810 to the left of the ROM sockets, that's a 128 byte RAM. The 6875 is a clock/reset generator for the 6800, the CPU clock is RC, not crystal. The crystal and MC14411 are for baud rate generation, nothing to do with the CPU, they just supply a common set of baud rate clocks to the bus so multiple I/O boards don't have to each have their own. It's almost a single-board computer. If that's the SWT or MIKBUG monitor in ROM then it needs an external 6820 PIA with a little glue and interface logic to connect to an RS-232 terminal (the monitor does parallel/serial conversion in software). Jules Richardson wrote: > One of the things I found in the heap was a SWTPC CPU board. I know > nothing about them, but it looked interesting enough to be worth saving > from an unknown fate. > > However, the board's different to the one at: > > http://www.computercloset.org/SWTPC6800.htm > > This one has 5 larger IC sockets along the top edge, the leftmost of > which is populated. there are two 7805 regulators toward the centre of > the board at the bottom. > > Bus is 50 pins, just like the card in the above photo - SW-50 I guess. > > There was no sign of a case for the board, backplane, or any other cards > though. > > Anyone know what the different board variations are? This one says > "MP-A2" in the top right corner along with a copyright symbol. > > Build date looks to be mid-to-late 1977. From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Jul 1 21:02:36 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: DEC 11/45 switches needed In-Reply-To: <00a801c45fca$ac749310$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <009601c45f9b$ed667160$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <16612.25523.372152.971686@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040701210218.02498640@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 07:22 PM 7/1/2004 -0500, Jay West wrote: >Paul wrote... > > You may need to do some mechanical magic > > to attach the clips that hold the plastic switch handles onto the > > toggle switch body. > >Ok, can the switches be removed, and new switches bought and installed, >while retaining the clips? Or, are the clips to attach the plastic handles >"built into the switch"? > >Jay The clip is integral to the switch assembly. --tom From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jul 1 21:09:05 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: DEC 11/45 switches needed References: <009601c45f9b$ed667160$033310ac@kwcorp.com><16612.25523.372152.971686@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <5.2.0.9.0.20040701210218.02498640@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <002501c45fd9$8d46dcf0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Tom wrote... > The clip is integral to the switch assembly. Ok, then if these switches can't be bought commercially still, add a dead front panel board for a /40, /45, or /70 to my recently posted "wanted list" :) Jay From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Thu Jul 1 22:01:27 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: RK05/RL02 Boot Sequence References: <20040701084410.D4FA7790052@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> <16612.6170.552500.656950@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <40E4D007.2E3D98C3@compsys.to> Paul Koning wrote: > >>>>> "wai-sun" == wai-sun chia writes: > wai-sun> Hello list, I'm trying to figure out the boot sequence on > wai-sun> both the RK05 and RL02 drive from a PDP. Here's how I > wai-sun> understand it so far: > wai-sun> 1. Get the bootstrap in core either via the FP or PTR. > wai-sun> 2. Execute bootstrap and pull in the absolute loader from > wai-sun> 1st. sector of 512 bytes or 256 words; i.e. copy 1st. sector > wai-sun> of drive to core starting from 0 3. Execute absolute loader > wai-sun> by a JMP 0. 4. ??? What happens next ??? > Typically, what happens next is that more initialization code is read > in from the disk. How much and where it comes from depends on the OS. > For example, in RT11 the bootstrap is 2 blocks long (block 2 is the > rest). It reads the directory to find the kernel and loads that, then > jumps to it. (Give or take some handwaving; Megan can improve on this > in her sleep...) Jerome Fine replies: A bit of a correction for RT-11 might help. As stated above, the primary hardware bootstrap program is loaded in some manner (the same for ALL operating systems) and reads block zero (of 512 bytes or 256 words of the disk drive) into memory at location zero. This secondary bootstrap program is then executed starting at location zero. A word of caution - For reasons on a PDP-11 which I don't understand, the secondary bootstrap program avoids the VECTORS for the console device at 60,64 and for the LTC (line time clock) at 100. For all but the MSCP device driver, the 512 bytes is more than adequate. Blocks 2,3,4,5 were reserved for the tertiary bootstrap program. For early versions of RT-11, only blocks 2 and 3 seem to have been needed. By V04.00, I think that blocks 2,3,4 were required. By V05.00, blocks 2,3,4,5 were used. The secondary bootstrap program read the tertiary bootstrap program blocks into memory starting at location 1000 and then started execution at location 1000. The secondary bootstrap program between 0 and 1000 was retained and that READ subroutine was usually used by the tertiary bootstrap program. In RT-11, DUP.SAV was used to write the secondary and tertiary bootstrap programs onto the disk drive. Starting with V05.03 of RT-11, MSCP devices were supported under the DU(X).SYS device driver which were larger than 65536 blocks or 32 MBytes. Each group of 65536 blocks is called an RT-11 partition. Starting with the first RT-11 partition which is numbered PART=0, the SET command is used to: SET DUn PORT=c, UNIT=u, PART=p where n = logical unit number (0 <= n <=7) up to V05.04G and (0 <= nn <= 77) but use Dnn starting with V05.05 where c = physical controller number (0 <= c <= 3) u = physical unit number (usually the SCSI ID for SCSI drives) p = physical RT-11 partition number (0<= p <=255) For a hardware boot starting with the primary bootstrap program which does NOT know anything about RT-11 partitions, c=p=0 and n=u. This requires: SET DUn: PORT=0, UNIT=n, PART=0 to allow a hardware boot to be successful - in almost all cases that are reasonable, although I have, just for fun, done it differently just to prove it was possible. With V05.06 of RT-11, DEC finally added the one extra instruction to the secondary bootstrap program which allows the DUP.SAV program to do a SOFTWARE boot from RT-11 to a NON-ZERO partition. It is possible to force DUP.SAV to follow exactly the same sequence by: BOOT DUn:/FOREIGN using the "/FOREIGN" switch so that the secondary bootstrap program is read from block zero of the specified RT-11 partition. A NON-ZERO partition is still allowed and the MSCP device driver allows the user to specify a map relationship between DUn: and the RT-11 partition which can be any combination of n, c, u and p - although if the combination is not valid, it can't be booted. There is one major restriction with the DEC version even with an extended DU(X).SYS device driver operating system. DEC limits the user to use a DUn: where 0 <= n <=7 This restriction is a software limitation and I have an enhanced version of DU(X).SYS for boot values of Dnn: where 0 <= nn <= 77 (nn is regarded as octal, but "Dnn" is really a RAD50 quantity with 64 possible "text" values where "8" and "9" are permitted but not used in practice) and I have frequently found it very useful to boot D62:, although finding space for all the 64 map entries in the boot block of 512 bytes left ZERO extra bytes remaining even when only one controller was used. The reason that only 64 active partitions are allowed is that DEC uses only 6 bits in each queue entry to specify the device number. It should be possible to use at least 7 bits and maybe even 8 bits in each queue entry for a total of 256 active partitions, although I suspect that there is absolutely NO commercial interest in such an enhancement at the present time, and certainly NO hobby interest to justify the size of the effort. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From vp at cs.drexel.edu Thu Jul 1 22:01:32 2004 From: vp at cs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: DOS_SOCK.LIB Message-ID: <200407020301.i6231Whm015824@queen.cs.drexel.edu> Hi, I think this is covered by the 10 year rule, since it concerns pre-windows stuff. I am looking for the DOS_SOCK.LIB file. Its a library for developing programs with sockets, for DOS. I found the following ref in the Microsoft site: > MS-DOS TCP/IP for Lanman 2.2c and Microsoft Network Clients 3.0 > support DOS Socket application and WinSock 1.1 application. Sockets.exe > in MS-DOS TCP/IP is a terminate-and-stay-resident (TSR) program; > it allows MS-DOS socket applications to run if they've been written > with the Microsoft TCP/IP Sockets Development Kit Version 1.0, using > the DOS Socket Library (DOS_SOCK.LIB) available in the Development > Kit. I can't find the "Microsoft TCP/IP Sockets Development Kit Version 1.0" on the Microsoft web site, so I am wondering whether somebody may have a copy left over. **vp From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 1 22:28:11 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: [humor] Check this out... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040701184401.0437d008@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Jul 1, 4 06:44:48 pm Message-ID: > > And you thought that HP never made wristwatches... And just what do you think an HP01 is? -tony From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jul 1 22:43:11 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: DEC 11/45 switches needed In-Reply-To: <002501c45fd9$8d46dcf0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: > Ok, then if these switches can't be bought commercially still, add a dead > front panel board for a /40, /45, or /70 to my recently posted "wanted list" If the switch is like the ones I am thinking of, they are actually pretty common on junk boards - you will just have to be careful when persuading the clip to let go of the handle. Then you get to be double extra careful getting the DEChandle back on without breaking it. I may have some in my hamfest stock - I will look. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Thu Jul 1 23:02:27 2004 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: DOS_SOCK.LIB In-Reply-To: <200407020301.i6231Whm015824@queen.cs.drexel.edu> References: <200407020301.i6231Whm015824@queen.cs.drexel.edu> Message-ID: <1088740947.3598.0.camel@azure> On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 22:01, Vassilis Prevelakis wrote: > Hi, > > I think this is covered by the 10 year rule, since it concerns pre-windows > stuff. > > I am looking for the DOS_SOCK.LIB file. Its a library for developing > programs with sockets, for DOS. I found the following ref in the Microsoft > site: > > > MS-DOS TCP/IP for Lanman 2.2c and Microsoft Network Clients 3.0 > > support DOS Socket application and WinSock 1.1 application. Sockets.exe > > in MS-DOS TCP/IP is a terminate-and-stay-resident (TSR) program; > > it allows MS-DOS socket applications to run if they've been written > > with the Microsoft TCP/IP Sockets Development Kit Version 1.0, using > > the DOS Socket Library (DOS_SOCK.LIB) available in the Development > > Kit. > > I can't find the "Microsoft TCP/IP Sockets Development Kit Version 1.0" > on the Microsoft web site, so I am wondering whether somebody may have > a copy left over. Unless you are using the MS client I would use WatTCP instead. Paul From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Jul 1 22:55:15 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: Speaking of Amigas... In-Reply-To: <2670.65.123.179.116.1088716824.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com>; from ghldbrd@xpres.ccp.com on Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 04:20:24PM -0500 References: <40E3EE6D.4119.9035CF@localhost> <2670.65.123.179.116.1088716824.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: <20040702035515.H13933@bos6.spole.gov> On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 04:20:24PM -0500, ghldbrd@xpres.ccp.com wrote: > You may need to put the floppy guts in the A1000 if the internal drive is > TU, as it only boots off the inside floppy, called DF0: If it is an A1010 > floppy you're okay. Or you can hack a standard DSDD 3.5" floppy in, but > you'll have to fiddlefutz with the jumpers to make it work correctly. A standard "1M" (raw) floppy drive will fit on the cable and read disks and all of that, but you might have an issue with the DISKCHANGE signal. ISTR some floppy drives had jumpers to select pin 2 vs pin 34, while others had no jumpers, and still others had no external DISKCHANGE pin. The upshot is that you might have to tell the OS you swapped disks if you can't find a drive that does the right thing. If the command isn't DISKCHANGE, I forget it off the top of my head - it's not like we used it all the time. AFAIK, there's mechanical clearance for just about any Amiga floppy drive inside the A1000 case (not so for the A500). The external floppies were identical mechs - the difference being a small circuit board that had a chip or two to generate the ID signal the ROMs looked for to ident 3.5" drives from 5.25" drives (unlike most computers, the Amiga could fiddle the control lines and determine the external disk type). > You will need TWO disks -- Kickstart and Workbench, 1.3 was the latest > version that worked in the A1000. A third disk was supplied, that also > had Amiga Basic, ABasic. I think by the time 1.3 came out, the OS was up to 4 or maybe 5 disks ("Extras", "Fonts"...) I'd have to go back and check. Not that it matters to an unexpanded A1000, but 1.3 can autoboot a hard disk and 1.2 cannot. There were also products to replace the WCS Daughter card - the Rejuvinator, for example. It's worth looking inside the A1000 to see if one is in there. One of the guys from a nearby club designed it. He gave us a big discount on a bulk buy because he came over and talked about 8 of us through the install. Among its features is a 40-pin ROM socket (works with KS2.0 for sure), a Fat or Fatter Agnus, and a minimal-function video slot for A2000 genlock cards, etc). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 02-Jul-2004 03:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -95.4 F (-70.8 C) Windchill -135.9 F (-93.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9.5 kts Grid 085 Barometer 671.9 mb (10933. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Jul 1 22:57:41 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: GIGI emulator? Message-ID: <20040702035741.I13933@bos6.spole.gov> I'm playing with KLH-10 right now, and would like to run some GIGI-aware apps that are in the tops20: dir. Does anyone have any recommendations for a GIGI-emulator app under Linux? -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 02-Jul-2004 03:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -95.5 F (-70.9 C) Windchill -135.3 F (-93 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9.1 kts Grid 084 Barometer 672 mb (10929. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From nerdware at ctgonline.org Thu Jul 1 23:43:44 2004 From: nerdware at ctgonline.org (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: Speaking of Amigas... In-Reply-To: <2670.65.123.179.116.1088716824.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> References: <40E3EE6D.4119.9035CF@localhost> Message-ID: <40E4A1B0.29320.B57CEB1F@localhost> > > You may need to put the floppy guts in the A1000 if the internal drive > is TU, as it only boots off the inside floppy, called DF0: If it is > an A1010 floppy you're okay. I believe the internal floppy is OK -- the external floppy's eject button seems to be broken somehow -- I haven't had time to look at it yet. I do have the external floppy for my A500 -- will that also work with the 1000? > > You will need TWO disks -- Kickstart and Workbench, 1.3 was the latest > version that worked in the A1000. A third disk was supplied, that > also had Amiga Basic, ABasic. I have Workbench 1.3 (shipped with my A500) but IIRC they stopped shipping Kickstart floppies after the 1000. So, I'll need some kind soul to clone me off a copy of Kickstart. > > Nice little bonus -- it also came > with the genlock slab, so I'll > eventually try to > play with that. > > Okay, just be warned that the clocking pulses for the Amiga come from > the genlocked signal, which means that a VCR with breakup in the tape > will hang the computer. A nice steady video signal is best. Cool. I'll remember that when I play around. > I think that was one of the old AMICUS disks, I think I have it and > could make a copy. Thanks. If you could do that and a copy of Kickstart, that would be just swell. Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri Jul 2 01:21:30 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: DEC 11/45 switches needed In-Reply-To: <002501c45fd9$8d46dcf0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP>; from jwest@classiccmp.org on Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 09:09:05PM -0500 References: <009601c45f9b$ed667160$033310ac@kwcorp.com><16612.25523.372152.971686@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <5.2.0.9.0.20040701210218.02498640@mail.ubanproductions.com> <002501c45fd9$8d46dcf0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <20040702062130.J13933@bos6.spole.gov> On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 09:09:05PM -0500, Jay West wrote: > Tom wrote... > > The clip is integral to the switch assembly. > > Ok, then if these switches can't be bought commercially still, add a dead > front panel board for a /40, /45, or /70 to my recently posted "wanted list" > :) I'd be in for a dead /70 front panel myself, but so that I could repair it and mount it on an 11/70 that only has the RDM console (which is *boring*) -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 02-Jul-2004 06:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -96.5 F (-71.4 C) Windchill -137.7 F (-94.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9.69 kts Grid 091 Barometer 672.1 mb (10925. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri Jul 2 01:23:28 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: Speaking of Amigas... In-Reply-To: <40E4A1B0.29320.B57CEB1F@localhost>; from nerdware@ctgonline.org on Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 11:43:44PM -0500 References: <40E3EE6D.4119.9035CF@localhost> <2670.65.123.179.116.1088716824.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> <40E4A1B0.29320.B57CEB1F@localhost> Message-ID: <20040702062328.K13933@bos6.spole.gov> On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 11:43:44PM -0500, Paul Braun wrote: > I do have the external floppy for my A500 -- will that also work with > the 1000? Yes. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 02-Jul-2004 06:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -96.5 F (-71.4 C) Windchill -137.7 F (-94.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9.69 kts Grid 091 Barometer 672.1 mb (10925. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From whdawson at localisps.net Fri Jul 2 01:37:10 2004 From: whdawson at localisps.net (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: SWTPC board In-Reply-To: <00e201c45fd5$87aab180$6401a8c0@knology.net> Message-ID: Oh? What about the "MP-A2 Microprocessor / System Board" on this page: http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/MP_A2/MP_A2_Index.htm d8^) Bill the_bill_at_swtpc_dot_com Hosting for swtpc.com provided by Jay West. Thanks, Jay! > > > Jules said: > > The SWTPC MPA2 CPU card is their second version. > > Docs for many SWTPC boards are at: > > www.swtpc.com > > but not this one, I see. I can make a copy of my manual if needed. > > Paul Pennington > Augusta, Georgia > > From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Fri Jul 2 02:07:23 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.0.20040702075328.0367bdd8@pop.freeserve.net> At 23:09 01/07/2004, Tony Duell wrote: >Two other car electrical faults that have caught me... I had an interesting one on our old car (Vauxhall Cavalier). I suddenly had a couple of warning lights come on. The battery charge light, and I think another one. The odd thing was, they were operating in inverse to normal - usually when switching on, the battery light would show until the engine started, then go out. It was staying off until this point, then coming on. We had one of those haynes service manuals (it was an old car, so we'd bought it just in case) and after poring over the virtually indecipherable schematics, I traced the current flow for this lamp. (From memory:) this lamp was nominally connected between +ve and the output of the alternator. This when the alternator was charging, there was no potential difference, so the lamp stayed off. However, if the fuse in the +ve supply blew, it could to draw current /backwards,/ via a different circuit on the same fuse, from the ground line... thus causing the lamp to light when there was charge, instead of the reverse. I checked the fuse, and it had indeed blown. replaced it, and all was OK again! A weird design.. and horrible schematics ... Rob From nico at farumdata.dk Fri Jul 2 03:04:40 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners References: <6.1.1.1.0.20040702075328.0367bdd8@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <000a01c4600b$3a984160$2201a8c0@finans> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob O'Donnell" > I had an interesting one on our old car (Vauxhall Cavalier). That would be an Opel Ascona in Europe. Nico --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.709 / Virus Database: 465 - Release Date: 22-06-2004 From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Jul 2 03:01:18 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: RK05/RL02 Boot Sequence In-Reply-To: <40E4D007.2E3D98C3@compsys.to> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Jul 2004, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > A word of caution - For reasons on a PDP-11 which I don't > understand, the secondary bootstrap program avoids the > VECTORS for the console device at 60,64 and for the > LTC (line time clock) at 100. For all but the MSCP > device driver, the 512 bytes is more than adequate. This is to allow those bootstrappers to use interrupt-based timeouts (ltc) if they want to, and same for papertape-based loading (console vectors). I have seen only a few bootstraps actually skipping these locations. --f From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jul 2 04:38:43 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.0.20040702075328.0367bdd8@pop.freeserve.net> References: <6.1.1.1.0.20040702075328.0367bdd8@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <1088761122.5525.22.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 07:07, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > At 23:09 01/07/2004, Tony Duell wrote: > We had one of those haynes service manuals (it was an old car, so we'd > bought it just in case) > A weird design.. and horrible schematics ... They always seem to be in Haynes manuals, for any car. I ended up redrawing them for my Triumph - besides, after 30-odd years and several owners there had been some interesting mods to the original wiring :-) cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jul 2 04:57:33 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: DEC Backplane (Was: Re: XTerms + DEC stuff + misc available (Cambridge, UK)) In-Reply-To: <20040702011113.A13933@bos6.spole.gov> References: <1088677561.4325.52.camel@weka.localdomain> <20040702011113.A13933@bos6.spole.gov> Message-ID: <1088762252.5525.42.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 01:11, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 10:26:02AM +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > > On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 00:35, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > ps. I too am curious to know what the spiky thing is! > > > > > > Knowing the source, and knowing what they had, I am pretty sure this is a > > > DEC Unibus backplane of some flavour. > > > > Dammit, spoil my surprise why don't you? :-P > > What's the label on the side say? "DD11-DK" is the bog-standard 9-slot > Unibus backplane, but it could be something specialized like an RK611 > backplane or something. Looks to be DDIIPK, part number 70-11523. There's a smaller sticker reading 2963167/79 (given the date on it of 1979 I expect that's just a factory batch number though) Curiously the hand-written date's 1/17/79 - so either the board was built in the US and shipped over here, or DEC imposed US-style dates on factory workers this side of the pond! cheers, Jules From gerold.pauler at gmx.net Fri Jul 2 05:27:41 2004 From: gerold.pauler at gmx.net (Gerold Pauler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: VCF East, ASR33 help wanted In-Reply-To: <010801c45fae$c5c22600$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <00a701c45ded$090d37b0$99100f14@mcothran1> <40E47EB4.9030703@tiac.net> <010801c45fae$c5c22600$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <40E5389D.70001@gmx.net> Hello Jay, on my website you can find the schematic for a HP ASR33 Reader Run Control an a schematic that shows how it fits into the ASR33. Have a look at: http://pdp8.de/en/frames/set_download.html If you like to see how this ASR33 looks like and compares to another ASR33: http://pdp8.de/en/frames/set_teletype.html - Gerold Jay West schrieb: > Bob wrote... > >>I have a ASR 33, well, HP's version. > > > Bob... I have an ASR33 that is NOT customized for hooking up to an HP, and > I'd like to hook mine up to an HP. So I'd love to know just what was > changed, pinouts for that cable, etc... cause someday I'll try to hook it up > to a 2100 cpu. > > Jay West From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jul 2 06:18:01 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: Commodore MPS-801 printer (Cambridge again :) Message-ID: <1088767080.5525.104.camel@weka.localdomain> I didn't pick this one up yesterday as I didn't know what chance I stood of being able to find a home for it. However, I'll be going back to the site next week I think to rescue some of the software that was there, and chances are good the printer will still be there. If someone wants it and can pick it up from me I'll make sure I grab it. cheers, Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jul 2 06:41:02 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: Unknown S100 card... In-Reply-To: <1088712962.4325.180.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1088712962.4325.180.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1088768462.5525.112.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 20:16, Jules Richardson wrote: > Random S100 board in the pile. Says "(c)1976 I.P.C" on the underside, > but there's nothing else by way of identification. I've put a small photo up at: http://www.moosenet.demon.co.uk/temp/comps/s100/unknown_s100_sm.jpg any ideas? cheers, Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jul 2 06:55:23 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: what the heck!? (bodged eurocard system) Message-ID: <1088769323.5525.129.camel@weka.localdomain> Any ideas what system these boards are for? http://www.moosenet.demon.co.uk/temp/comps/eurocard (sorry for bad photos - in a rush!) Looks to have been homebrewed into an XT clone case. Bus connectors are 96 way. Memory card DRAMS are 21256's, so I presume that's 1MB on the board. CPU card has a Z80B on board plus memory - and a D765 IC, which I think is an FDC chip IIRC. ROM is labelled "Prof MON 1.3" Larger chips on the I/O board are a 6845 CTRC, 8255 (PIA IIRC), Mostek MK3801 (no idea!), Z80A CPU, 6116 SRAM, and a EPROM (with no label). There's a homebrew card right at the back with nothing much more than a ROM on it - unfortunately I can't read the handwritten label, but the first three letters are "tas". Anyone able to tell me what the machine is or anything about it? cheers, Jules From melamy at earthlink.net Fri Jul 2 07:30:29 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: Unknown S100 card... Message-ID: <21892284.1088771429787.JavaMail.root@statler.psp.pas.earthlink.net> looks to be a single board computer that a company did for some type S100 based controller. A CPU, some ram, some rom, I/O and 16 pin dips connectors to send the I/O for testing. The 40 pin chip is probably an 8080 (could be a Z80). My best guess anyway brcause I don't recognize the IPC ID. best regards, Steve Thatcher From bernd at kopriva.de Fri Jul 2 07:41:06 2004 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:05 2005 Subject: what the heck!? (bodged eurocard system) In-Reply-To: <1088769323.5525.129.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040702130415.3358D3919B@linux.local> Hi Jules, it looks like you found a nice Z80 CP/M system ... ... the CPU card is probably a PROF80, and the I/O board is a GRIP 1 terminal card. Both of them had been distributed by conitec, germany. The cards were described in the german computer journal c't (they sold bare boards too) ... You will find some details at http://www.prof80.de (in german, of course :-)) Bernd On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 11:55:23 +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > >Any ideas what system these boards are for? > >http://www.moosenet.demon.co.uk/temp/comps/eurocard > >(sorry for bad photos - in a rush!) > >Looks to have been homebrewed into an XT clone case. > >Bus connectors are 96 way. > >Memory card DRAMS are 21256's, so I presume that's 1MB on the board. > >CPU card has a Z80B on board plus memory - and a D765 IC, which I think >is an FDC chip IIRC. ROM is labelled "Prof MON 1.3" > >Larger chips on the I/O board are a 6845 CTRC, 8255 (PIA IIRC), Mostek >MK3801 (no idea!), Z80A CPU, 6116 SRAM, and a EPROM (with no label). > >There's a homebrew card right at the back with nothing much more than a >ROM on it - unfortunately I can't read the handwritten label, but the >first three letters are "tas". > >Anyone able to tell me what the machine is or anything about it? > >cheers, > >Jules > > > From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Jul 2 08:06:47 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: RK05/RL02 Boot Sequence References: <20040701084410.D4FA7790052@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <16613.24039.902176.777757@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell writes: >> Hello list, I'm trying to figure out the boot sequence on both the >> RK05 and RL02 drive from a PDP. Here's how I understand it so far: >> >> 1. Get the bootstrap in core either via the FP or PTR. Tony> Or from ROM (originally diode matrix [1]. later on bipolar PROM Tony> chips) Tony> [1] Chosen, I am told, because the user could program it Tony> without special equipment like a PROM programmer. All you Tony> needed was a pair of cutters (the 'blank' boards shipped with Tony> all the diodes fitted), and a soldering iron to correct errors. That's certainly a benefit. Another likely reason is that PROMs didn't exist yet (only, if anything, mask ROMs, which didn't make sense in quantities less than 1 million). And even if PROMs existed back then, 256 diodes were likely to be cheaper. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Jul 2 08:19:12 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: DEC 11/45 switches needed References: <009601c45f9b$ed667160$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <16612.25523.372152.971686@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <5.2.0.9.0.20040701210218.02498640@mail.ubanproductions.com> <002501c45fd9$8d46dcf0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <16613.24784.136637.439567@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jay" == Jay West writes: Jay> Tom wrote... >> The clip is integral to the switch assembly. Jay> Ok, then if these switches can't be bought commercially still, Jay> add a dead front panel board for a /40, /45, or /70 to my Jay> recently posted "wanted list" :) One good question is: when you said that the innards of the switches had "disintegrated" -- exactly what had happened? There's very little variation in how those things are constructed inside. You may be able to find new switches of the same size, rip out the old guts, and replace them by new guts taken from the new switches. paul From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jul 2 09:00:01 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: HP Omnibook 430 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040702100001.008a6e30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I picked up one of these from a surplus store yesterday. Unfortunately soembody removed the system card that contains the special version of Windows and some other software from it. Does anyone have an xtra system card or the external floppy drive for one of these? Joe From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Jul 2 09:09:28 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: HP DOS computer selection advice sought Message-ID: <007901c4603e$308248a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I have a large multi-tier printer stand on casters that I use for my HP logic analyzer setup. 1631D analyzer, 9122 dual floppy drive, 2225 printer, probe hangers, etc. It's nice to have on that stand because I can roll it around the work area from system to system easily. I would like to put a computer on that stand too, that has HP-IB interface (all the gear above is HP-IB). The primary purpose of the computer is to interface to the logic analyzer, but I will also use it for interfacing to my Data I/O programmer, various DOS programs like IC stat lookup, etc. My problem is I'm not that familiar with HP DOS machines. I have particular requirements for this and I'm not sure what model to look for. Perhaps those familiar with HP's DOS machine lineage can suggest a machine I should look for. Here's the criteria: 1) It has to be an HP. My TI3100 would look out of place with all the HP gear on the rack :) 2) It has to allow putting an 8 bit ISA HP-IB card in it (or dare I say already support HP-IB) 3) It really needs 1mb of RAM for some of the programs I want to run on it. 4) DOS version needs to be 5.0 or better, would be nice if I could use the free DR-DOS 5) It would have to have an external serial port 6) I would like to get it on the wireless network. I was thinking of using the zircom parallel port adapter I have, and then getting an ethernet to wireless bridge. Of course, I have to find DOS TCP/IP drivers for the zircom, if such a thing exists. I'm open to options here. 7) Vertical space is a premium on the rack, so I would prefer something without a full-size monitor, preferrably an all-in-one unit rather than separate cpu, keyboard, monitor, etc. 8) Would need at least 40mb hard disk. 9) Need a somewhat standard size keyboard (this rules out my 200LX). So far from my looking around, the HP 110 seems very close to what I'd want. The small vertical height of the screen is a big plus, but, I really have to have 80x24. Plus the 110 seems to be stuck with 256k ram and only DOS 2.11. I would LOVE to use my HP-85 for this, but alas, it isn't going to be running promlink anytime soon. Can anyone suggest a vintage PC machine for this purpose? Thanks! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From RMaxwell at atlantissi.com Fri Jul 2 10:43:27 2004 From: RMaxwell at atlantissi.com (RMaxwell@atlantissi.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners Message-ID: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F128CB@INETMAIL> On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 00:45:56 +2500 (BST)(!) Tony Duell wrote: > Actaully I'm more likely to suggest yoy resolder that darn > dry joint, and > go over others in the area. Preferably before soemthing in the sense > circuit goes open and the output jumps to 15V or whatever! > > -tony > Bad solder joints in power supplies bring back memories... cooked ones... My Superboard 2 (to be exhibited at VCF East) came without a power supply, so this intrepid owner got to build his own. Any bad solder joints are the responsibility of exactly one party... I kludged a STD-Bus 32K CMOS RAM card (using 16 of 6116 2kx8 parts) onto the Superboard, and used a free set of 4 size-F NiCad cells as a battery backup. Size F is used to make the 6-volt lantern batteries, by the way, so the current capacity of my backup was calculated to keep the board running without power for roughly 7 years, disregarding internal battery leakage. 7 Amp-hour NiCads can also start a fire in milliseconds: with that in mind, I placed a service switch in series with the battery so I could take it out of circuit if I had to fix something. Clever, right? One day (about 1985) the power supply became intermittent and I had to dive in to the Superboard's case to identify the problem and correct it. Awake and alert at the time, I pulled the AC plug, then switched off the battery. Disassembling the machine, finding the solder joint and reassembling took me longer than expected, so it was around midnight when I was ready to power everything back up. Here's where circuit details caught me: my main charge circuit for the NiCads was limited to about 5.1 volts - perfect for a 5-volt RAM card. However, NiCads should have a "trickle" charge of 0.1-1% of capacity to keep them healthy: for a 7Ah battery, that's 7mA (drawn from a 12-volt supply via a resistor). This is important, since the RAM card, idle, draws 0.1mA. Without the battery to absorb the trickle current, the RAM voltage goes (way) out of spec. (Fortunately, the Superboard had a completely independent regulator...) I plug in power, then realize with horror that the battery's out of circuit and the trickle charge is feeding 12 volts to the RAM. Yank cord. Check everything out to see what damage was done - couldn't find anything seriously hurt. Whew. About 2AM, I plug the cord in again - Moron! The battery's STILL off! This time I found 2 RAM chips shorted (and snipped the trickle charge resistor out of circuit). It took me another week to find the last victim, a 74HC245 bus buffer with its ground bond wire blown internally - no physical evidence - and CMOS protection diodes on its I/O pins kept the chip working as long as it had enough logic-0 inputs to work the logic-0 outputs. When the Superboard READ 0FFh from the RAM board, the '245 starved and I got errors... In hindsight, there were so many ways to prevent that... Bob Maxwell From marvin at rain.org Fri Jul 2 11:23:14 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: Unknown S100 card... References: <1088712962.4325.180.camel@weka.localdomain> <1088768462.5525.112.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <40E58BF2.A89BBFA2@rain.org> I *think* this is a Polymorphic CPU card, but I can't get to any of the cards right now to make sure. IIRC, IPC was the company name that was associated with Polymorphic Systems, and that name appears on most, if not all, of their S-100 cards. In checking some of the Polymorphic engineering drawings, I.P.C. showed up the one PC Board layout I found. Jules Richardson wrote: > > On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 20:16, Jules Richardson wrote: > > Random S100 board in the pile. Says "(c)1976 I.P.C" on the underside, > > but there's nothing else by way of identification. > > I've put a small photo up at: > http://www.moosenet.demon.co.uk/temp/comps/s100/unknown_s100_sm.jpg > > any ideas? > > cheers, > > Jules From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Fri Jul 2 12:00:58 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners Message-ID: This last weekend just gone I helped a mate sort out the dashboard wiring in his 'new' ?400 Fiat. This wiring was mostly a mess of short lengths of twisted together cable and melted adhesive insulting tape due to many home modifications in its life. I did ask him to get a service manual that included a circuit diagram but on the day we were still without and, after the usual disclaimers about working without docs, I went about fixing what was there. Not only did I fix the wiring, the dashboard lighting and the clock I installed a CD player (into the hole where most of the wires had been hanging from) and a cigarette lighter socket so he could use his in car charger for his phone. All went well, the dash was re-assembled, the CD player worked, the phone charged and all the lights lit. Then my mate got out his cigarettes and pressed the lighter home.... Eventually we realised the noise we could just hear over the somewhat loud Metallica Black album was the rear screen wiper swishing back and forth across a dry screen. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Fri Jul 2 12:23:37 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: SANG A2000 prototype card Message-ID: > Next question is, does anyone want it for any homebrew projects? If it's not already taken, yes please. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From dvcorbin at optonline.net Fri Jul 2 12:29:43 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>> >>> Eventually we realised the noise we could just hear over >>> the somewhat loud Metallica Black album was the rear screen >>> wiper swishing back and forth across a dry screen. >>> >>> Lee. Depending on one's taste, that *could* actually be a good thing, maybe even better if the wiper was louder! David. From ggs at shiresoft.com Fri Jul 2 13:01:47 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: DEC 11/45 switches needed In-Reply-To: <16613.24784.136637.439567@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <009601c45f9b$ed667160$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <16612.25523.372152.971686@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <5.2.0.9.0.20040701210218.02498640@mail.ubanproductions.com> <002501c45fd9$8d46dcf0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <16613.24784.136637.439567@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <1088791307.5934.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 06:19, Paul Koning wrote: > > One good question is: when you said that the innards of the switches > had "disintegrated" -- exactly what had happened? There's very little > variation in how those things are constructed inside. You may be able > to find new switches of the same size, rip out the old guts, and > replace them by new guts taken from the new switches. Most usually it's the plastic parts that "disintegrate". I've replaced over a dozen of these now (on various 11/40, 11/45 and 11/70 front panels) and in 90% of the cases the platic part of the switch has broken into numerous parts. Looking at the construction of the switches doesn't inspire confidence in being able to do any sort of repair of the switch itself. And for those of you wondering, my supply of switches comes from "scrap" front panels. Because of this, I'm getting *really* good at removing the switch covers and unsoldering the switches without damaging either (ie my transplants have been 100% successfull so far). -- TTFN - Guy From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Jul 2 13:16:36 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: Unknown S100 card... Message-ID: <200407021816.LAA26477@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Marvin & Jules Yep, that is the polymorphic CPU card. The CPU is a 8080 and the 4 sockets above the CPU are for 2111's. The three sockets take 2708's. It is missing things like bus buffers. Marvin or I can get you a schematic. If you get one of the vidio cards and a parallel keyboard, you can actually do a small amount ( with the 4 2111's as RAM ). The two socket at the upper right go to a serial buffer card and a cassette interface card. I do have the schematic for these as well but the cassette has a couple of chips that may be a real bear to find. I also have the ROM monitor code and TINY BASIC that will run on this card. Dwight >From: "Marvin Johnston" > > >I *think* this is a Polymorphic CPU card, but I can't get to any of the >cards right now to make sure. IIRC, IPC was the company name that was >associated with Polymorphic Systems, and that name appears on most, if >not all, of their S-100 cards. In checking some of the Polymorphic >engineering drawings, I.P.C. showed up the one PC Board layout I found. > >Jules Richardson wrote: >> >> On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 20:16, Jules Richardson wrote: >> > Random S100 board in the pile. Says "(c)1976 I.P.C" on the underside, >> > but there's nothing else by way of identification. >> >> I've put a small photo up at: >> http://www.moosenet.demon.co.uk/temp/comps/s100/unknown_s100_sm.jpg >> >> any ideas? >> >> cheers, >> >> Jules > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jul 2 13:59:59 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040702145959.0086e6b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:00 PM 7/2/04 +0100, you wrote: > > >Eventually we realised the noise we could just hear over the somewhat >loud Metallica Black album was the rear screen wiper swishing back and >forth across a dry screen. About 15 years ago I bought a really beat up 1962 Mercedes Benz 190SL roadster to restore. After I got it home I was checking everything out and I turned on the radio to see if it worked. Nothing, so I turned it off and added it to the list of things to fix. Later in the middle of the night I woke up and realized that the radio was so old that it probably used vacuum tubes instead of transistors and probably needed to warm up before it would work. It bothered me so much that I got up at 2 AM and went outside to try it. Sure enough it was fine after it warmed up for about 30 seconds. My only excuse is that I hadn't used a vacuum tube car radio since I was in about 3rd grade! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jul 2 13:49:26 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: HP DOS computer selection advice sought In-Reply-To: <007901c4603e$308248a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040702144926.0092ede0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:09 AM 7/2/04 -0500, you wrote: >I have a large multi-tier printer stand on casters that I use for my HP >logic analyzer setup. 1631D analyzer, 9122 dual floppy drive, 2225 printer, >probe hangers, etc. It's nice to have on that stand because I can roll it >around the work area from system to system easily. > >I would like to put a computer on that stand too, that has HP-IB interface >(all the gear above is HP-IB). The primary purpose of the computer is to >interface to the logic analyzer, but I will also use it for interfacing to >my Data I/O programmer, various DOS programs like IC stat lookup, etc. > >My problem is I'm not that familiar with HP DOS machines. I have particular >requirements for this and I'm not sure what model to look for. Perhaps those >familiar with HP's DOS machine lineage can suggest a machine I should look >for. Here's the criteria: > >1) It has to be an HP. My TI3100 would look out of place with all the HP >gear on the rack :) >2) It has to allow putting an 8 bit ISA HP-IB card in it (or dare I say >already support HP-IB) >3) It really needs 1mb of RAM for some of the programs I want to run on it. >4) DOS version needs to be 5.0 or better, would be nice if I could use the >free DR-DOS >5) It would have to have an external serial port >6) I would like to get it on the wireless network. I was thinking of using >the zircom parallel port adapter I have, and then getting an ethernet to >wireless bridge. Of course, I have to find DOS TCP/IP drivers for the >zircom, if such a thing exists. I'm open to options here. >7) Vertical space is a premium on the rack, so I would prefer something >without a full-size monitor, preferrably an all-in-one unit rather than >separate cpu, keyboard, monitor, etc. >8) Would need at least 40mb hard disk. >9) Need a somewhat standard size keyboard (this rules out my 200LX). > >So far from my looking around, the HP 110 seems very close to what I'd want. >The small vertical height of the screen is a big plus, but, I really have to >have 80x24. Plus the 110 seems to be stuck with 256k ram and only DOS 2.11. >I would LOVE to use my HP-85 for this, but alas, it isn't going to be >running promlink anytime soon. Can anyone suggest a vintage PC machine for >this purpose? > Let's see. #2 will require a PC clone and you can't add an ISA card to a HP-110 so it's out. #6 rules out things like HP-85s and the like. I can't think of any HP machine that has an intregrated display that also has ISA slots. MY suggestion would be to use an HP Intregral PC! But no wireless networking for that one uneless you can find something that works via the seriel port. Since it's HP-UX you also can't use any programs written for PCs. Another suggestion is a Compaq Portable-III or Portable 386 with the ISA expansion pod on the back but that's not an HP product. The only HP computer that comes close is one of the older Vectras but they use regular CGA/EGA/VGA monitors. You could use one of those with a flat LCD monitor. I think $HP $even $makes $them $now. I suppose something like the Omnibook 430 that I just picked up would work if you put the wireless network card and HP-IB in PCMCIA slots but PCMCIA HP_IB interfaces are probably expensive. Have you seen an Omnibook 430? It looks just like a HP-200LX but it's about twice as big so the keyboard and screen have a decent size. If you're interested in an old Vectra, I have one that I'm supposed to pick up later today or tomorrow. It looks like it's in good condition but I haven't checked it. They use regular PC type components and they're about 13" square and about 7" tall. It's probably an old 286 12Mhz machine but they work fine. That's what I'm using for my HP HyperViper setup. BTW I do have the CMOS setup disks for them too. Joe From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jul 2 14:04:43 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: XTerms + DEC stuff + misc available (Cambridge, UK) In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.0.20040701174817.0443f210@pop.freeserve.net> References: <1088677561.4325.52.camel@weka.localdomain> <6.1.1.1.0.20040701143746.03ec0db8@pop.freeserve.net> <1088698422.4325.90.camel@weka.localdomain> <6.1.1.1.0.20040701174817.0443f210@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <1088795083.5525.286.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 16:56, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > At 17:13 01/07/2004, you wrote: > Well no worries if they are no good waiting to hear back at the mo re. keyboards / displays... > (someone else mentioned software is needed?? They need a boot image on the server. For my NCD 88k one this is about 1.5MB from memory (I have a copy somewhere!) and is transferred using TFTP to the Xterm on startup. All the NCD boot files were readily available a few years ago for sure, although I've no idea about Xterms from other vendors. > I've never played with an x-term, so was just something else ot > put in the pile of "cool things I should play with someday when I have > infinate time" ! Ha ha! They are pretty cool to play around with - as mentioned it was really the sound situation which stopped me seriously using mine in the last few years (that and only 8 bit colour) > lol. :-) I didn't know, honest! Where is this list, might be of interest > to me. Although this one is about the only mailing list I actually read > daily, out of the several I am subscribed to. As quoted by the list manager: ] Try emailing majordomo@cloud9.co.uk with the message body: ] ] subscribe bbc-micro it's low traffic, but there's some really clued-up people on there when it comes to BBC stuff (and a lot of the other Acorn 8 bit machines) > [ Cub screen wall ] > Sounds good :-) Why not do some simple games too? Something as basic as > 'pong' should be easy? hmm, now that's an interesting idea. Wonder how well it'd work in practice - there'd probably be about 1.5" of dead space between each screen, so I'm not sure if that'd make it feel odd or not. Worth a try, though :) > or ... I've got a touch-screen for a cub... find > 15 more and you can do a "hit the pop-up beastie" game :-) Ha ha! Those might be a bit harder to track down... > >Running numbers through my head, it seems to be a viable project anyway. > >Just a case of finding the time to actually implement it! (It started > >out as a simple scrolling message system, but then it had occurred to me > >just how stackable Cubs are too! :-) > > 16 monitors makes a nice 4x4 matrix - probably what made us both think of it. Yep. I wondered about a 5x5 matrix, but the numbers don't add up to make it viable when you look at Econet speeds and the expected data size. cheers, Jules From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Jul 2 14:34:03 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: VCF East preparations are afoot... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040702142051.0252cfd0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Ok, I dragged the Imlac PDS-1D out from its corner today and fired it up. It continues to amaze me that this beast still works after all these years, after all it was built somewhere around 1970. I had been having second thoughts about making the drive to the east coast for VCF East after having just completed the round trip a week ago, but now I'm reinvigorated! --tom At 12:30 AM 5/27/2004 -0700, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >Ok, I'm finally catching up with VCF East planning. Sorry for all the >delays. > >The dates for VCF East are July 16-17 (FRIDAY and Saturday). The location >is Burlington, Massachusetts, at Sun Microsystems' corporate campus. Sun >is sponsoring the event. > >Those who have already submitted exhibit entries have just been replied >to (Tom Uban: you probably won't get my e-mail due to spam blocks but rest >assured you're in there). > >Current exhibitors can be seen on the VCF East 2.0 exhibits page: > >http://www.vintage.org/2004/east/exhibit.php > >We've got ten exhibitors so far (2 pending approval) which is a good >start, but I'd like to see more. So if you're planning to exhibit at VCF >East, now's the time to register. > >I'm also putting together the speaker roster. If you have someone you'd >like to suggest as a speaker, or you'd like to give a talk yourself, >please e-mail me. > >Things will start moving fast from this point forward. The next VCF >Gazette will be coming out soon with more information. > >Hope to see you all at VCF East 2.0! > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From auryn at gci-net.com Fri Jul 2 15:04:00 2004 From: auryn at gci-net.com (auryn@gci-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: XTerms + DEC stuff + misc available (Cambridge, UK) In-Reply-To: <1088795083.5525.286.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 19:04:43 +0000 Jules Richardson wrote: > On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 16:56, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > > At 17:13 01/07/2004, you wrote: > > > Well no worries if they are no good > > waiting to hear back at the mo re. keyboards / > displays... > > > (someone else mentioned software is needed?? > > They need a boot image on the server. For my NCD 88k one > this is about > 1.5MB from memory (I have a copy somewhere!) and is The 19c (*an* 88K model) images run from ~2M to ~6M, depending on the features compiled into the image. > transferred using > TFTP to the Xterm on startup. Depending on how you have the terminal configured, you may also need to set up BOOTP (later boot monitors also support DHCP -- but don't count on it!) and probably NFS to serve up configuration files (unless you want to treat them as R/O and rely on TFTP for those). Likewise, xfs comes in handy (though you can serve up the fonts via TFTP or NFS, as well -- depends on how many terminals you are running, how many fonts you support, etc.) > All the NCD boot files were readily > available a few years ago for sure, although I've no idea > about Xterms from other vendors. You can probably scrounge a copy from some non-NCD site. NCD still sells NCDware for ~$350 a copy -- despite the fact that it hasn't been supported for *many* years. > > I've never played with an x-term, so was just something > else ot > > put in the pile of "cool things I should play with > someday when I have > > infinate time" ! > > Ha ha! They are pretty cool to play around with - as > mentioned it was > really the sound situation which stopped me seriously > using mine in the > last few years (that and only 8 bit colour) I have 8 of them here -- half monochrome, half color. They are a win for letting me access the same set of servers regardless of where I am located in the house. Some are in the "office", another in the work-room, another on the back porch, another supports my PBX and server farm, another for my "other half" to use to view JPEGs while painting, etc. Sound has never been an issue here. That's what the HiFi is for! :> [snip] > > [ Cub screen wall ] > > Sounds good :-) Why not do some simple games too? > Something as basic as > > 'pong' should be easy? > > hmm, now that's an interesting idea. Wonder how well it'd > work in > practice - there'd probably be about 1.5" of dead space > between each > screen, so I'm not sure if that'd make it feel odd or > not. Worth a try, > though :) Pioneer makes (made?) a flat-faced (rear projection?) screen specifically designed for end-to-end stacking. I believe 1/4" gap exists between adjacent images. Also, the sets include signal processing hardware that allows you to pipe a video signal (RS-170?) to the "monitor bank" and each set will take it's "slice" of the video stream out and scale it to fit the display. Of course, computer generated video doesn't *need* this luxury... split the signal in software and run it out N video cards :-/ Hmmm... I can't recall if the monitors are 4:3 or 9:4, though... Regardless, probably way too rich for your budget? ;-) --don From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Jul 2 15:25:37 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: cable lacing... In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040702142051.0252cfd0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: There was some discussion not too long ago about cable lacing and I recently found a site some of you might be interested in: http://www.dairiki.org/hammond/cable-lacing-howto/ g. From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Jul 2 15:44:04 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: HP-85 stuff Message-ID: <007a01c46075$5017e580$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I'm looking for the EMS rom for the HP-85A. Or better yet, has any progress been made in the project to clone the HP programmable rom module? Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri Jul 2 15:48:09 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners References: <3.0.6.32.20040702145959.0086e6b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001f01c46075$e2368340$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: RE: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners > At 06:00 PM 7/2/04 +0100, you wrote: > > > > > >Eventually we realised the noise we could just hear over the somewhat > >loud Metallica Black album was the rear screen wiper swishing back and > >forth across a dry screen. > > About 15 years ago I bought a really beat up 1962 Mercedes Benz 190SL > roadster to restore. After I got it home I was checking everything out and > I turned on the radio to see if it worked. Nothing, so I turned it off and > added it to the list of things to fix. Later in the middle of the night I > woke up and realized that the radio was so old that it probably used vacuum > tubes instead of transistors and probably needed to warm up before it would > work. It bothered me so much that I got up at 2 AM and went outside to try > it. Sure enough it was fine after it warmed up for about 30 seconds. My > only excuse is that I hadn't used a vacuum tube car radio since I was in > about 3rd grade! > > Joe > A car radio with tubes, man you must be old. I was into car stereos during the 80's audio explosion and seen a few crazy things go on. Ever see what happens when you put the fuse at the AMP side instead of the battery side and the cable shorts out in an ungrometed hole through sheetmetal? All I can say is the guy was lucky the cable was loose or he would have burned the whole car down instead of just smoking a cable. From melamy at earthlink.net Fri Jul 2 17:50:39 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: cable lacing... Message-ID: <6132036.1088808641799.JavaMail.root@bigbird.psp.pas.earthlink.net> very cool! Thanks Gene -----Original Message----- From: Gene Buckle Sent: Jul 2, 2004 4:25 PM To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Subject: cable lacing... There was some discussion not too long ago about cable lacing and I recently found a site some of you might be interested in: http://www.dairiki.org/hammond/cable-lacing-howto/ g. From dankolb at ox.compsoc.net Fri Jul 2 18:11:34 2004 From: dankolb at ox.compsoc.net (Dan Kolb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: KA655 problem Message-ID: <20040702231134.GA18911@hades.eco.li> Hi all, I decided to power on my MicroVAX 3800, after it's been idling for a couple of years (unfortunately due to lack of time on my part), only to find that it's not booting properly. The LED display on the cover/patch panel sits saying 'F' (apparently "Waiting for CDOK"); nothing else happens. Anyone got any ideas as to what may be wrong, or if it's fixable? If not, there's a KA655 on eBay for 20EUR (currently), or 39EUR BIN - is this a reasonable price? Dan -- He who sneezes without a handkerchief takes matters into his own hands. From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Jul 2 18:33:23 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: KA655 problem Message-ID: <0407022333.AA16555@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Dan Kolb wrote: > I decided to power on my MicroVAX 3800, after it's been idling for a couple of > years (unfortunately due to lack of time on my part), only to find that it's > not booting properly. The LED display on the cover/patch panel sits saying 'F' > (apparently "Waiting for CDOK"); nothing else happens. Anyone got any ideas as > to what may be wrong, or if it's fixable? First of all, it's DCOK, not "CDOK". Second, the problem may not be in the CPU board, it may be the PSU. E.g., it's out of tolerance and does not assert the DCOK signal. Follow Tony's advice: check the PSU voltages and the state of the DCOK signal before randomly swapping parts (and certainly before rushing out to eBay to buy a new KA655 board). MS From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 2 18:12:28 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.0.20040702075328.0367bdd8@pop.freeserve.net> from "Rob O'Donnell" at Jul 2, 4 08:07:23 am Message-ID: > We had one of those haynes service manuals (it was an old car, so we'd I have been singularly unimpressed with Haynes manuals. They seem to omit important information, not describe certain jobs (automatic transmissions, diffeeentials, some electrical stuff, etc are regarded as 'too difficult for the home mechanic' -- BLETCH!), and even have some serious errors. I try to get the offiical manufacturer's manual (I actually have quite a shelf of them now) -- often it's expensive, but it's worth it. The Citroen BX official manual is 3 thick binders. The Haynes manual is one book about 1/4 the thickness of one of the binders. Hmmm. And it's _useless_ for electical problems for one very good reason. The Citroen BX wiring loom is in many sections, which convege on the fusebox under the dashboard. For example, there's a ribbon cable (!) that runs down the left side of the car. The front end plugs into the fuse box. The rear end plugs into the rear light cluster on that side. Another ribbon cable plugs into that light cluster, runs across the back of the car and plugs into the RH light cluster. Other looms plug into the fuse box and go to the column swithes, engine/front lights, etc. What this means is that if you have an electrical problem, you get isnide the fusebox and start probing the connections there. You can quickly isolate the problem to a particular area and then do more specific tests. Or at least you can if you have the pinouts of all the connectors. This is shown in the offiical manual, it's not in the Haynes manual. Hmmm... > bought it just in case) and after poring over the virtually indecipherable > schematics, I traced the current flow for this lamp. (From memory:) this > lamp was nominally connected between +ve and the output of the > alternator. This when the alternator was charging, there was no potential > difference, so the lamp stayed off. However, if the fuse in the +ve supply Alternators have a 3 phase stator, the otuput of which goes to a 6-diode bridge and then to the battery. There are another 3 diodes connected to the non-earthed side (normally +ve) to provide an auxilliary supply for the regulator/field winding. The warning lamp is normally connected between the switched battery +ve line and the auxilliary line. When the alternator is charging, the warning light has the battery voltage on both sides and doesn't come on. When the alternator is not charging, the 'alternator' side of the lamp is effectively earthed via the regulator and field winding. That's why worn-out brushes will stop the lamp from coming on. There's a reasonable component-level description of a standard alternator and regulator in the Land Rover series III manual, BTW. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 2 18:16:17 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: RK05/RL02 Boot Sequence In-Reply-To: <16613.24039.902176.777757@gargle.gargle.HOWL> from "Paul Koning" at Jul 2, 4 09:06:47 am Message-ID: > Tony> Or from ROM (originally diode matrix [1]. later on bipolar PROM > Tony> chips) > > Tony> [1] Chosen, I am told, because the user could program it > Tony> without special equipment like a PROM programmer. All you > Tony> needed was a pair of cutters (the 'blank' boards shipped with > Tony> all the diodes fitted), and a soldering iron to correct errors. > > That's certainly a benefit. Another likely reason is that PROMs > didn't exist yet (only, if anything, mask ROMs, which didn't make Hmmm. The PDP11/45 used bipolar PROMs for the CPU and floating point microcode. But the bootstrap board was a diode matrix. Now admittedly it could have been designed for the 11/20 (which was a couple of years earlier), and perhaps bipolar PROMs were not available then, but they were certainly around in 1972. > sense in quantities less than 1 million). And even if PROMs existed > back then, 256 diodes were likely to be cheaper. The board I am thinking of has 32 locations of 16 bits, so 512 diodes. I have reprogrammed a couple... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 2 18:20:31 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: HP DOS computer selection advice sought In-Reply-To: <007901c4603e$308248a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at Jul 2, 4 09:09:28 am Message-ID: > > So far from my looking around, the HP 110 seems very close to what I'd want. > The small vertical height of the screen is a big plus, but, I really have to > have 80x24. Plus the 110 seems to be stuck with 256k ram and only DOS 2.11. The HP Portable Plus (110+) gets round some of those problems. It has an 80*24 LCD, and will take something like 800K+ of RAM (all in 6264's...). But it is _not_ IBM compatible (the MS-DOS is a customised version, as are many of the applciation programs), there's no HPIB port (there is an HPIL port, and you can use an 82169 interface to hang HPIB devives off that), and there's certainly no parallel port. Nor is there a hard disk (although I think you can use some HP hard disk untis with it, if your 82159 has the later version firmware, there's a comment about this in the back of the TechReF). But I don't think it's really what you are looking for. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 2 18:25:57 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners In-Reply-To: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F128CB@INETMAIL> from "RMaxwell@atlantissi.com" at Jul 2, 4 11:43:27 am Message-ID: > Here's where circuit details caught me: my main charge circuit for the > NiCads was limited to about 5.1 volts - perfect for a 5-volt RAM card. > However, NiCads should have a "trickle" charge of 0.1-1% of capacity to keep > them healthy: for a 7Ah battery, that's 7mA (drawn from a 12-volt supply via > a resistor). This is important, since the RAM card, idle, draws 0.1mA. > Without the battery to absorb the trickle current, the RAM voltage goes > (way) out of spec. (Fortunately, the Superboard had a completely independent > regulator...) Greater men than you have fallen into this trap!. The HP2xC and HP3xC calculators (Woodstock and Spice series with continuous memory) have much the same problem. The charger gives out about 12V off-load to charge a 2.5V (2 cell) NiCd pack. When the machine is running, this battery drives a DC-DC converter to produce +6.2V and -12V for the PMOS logic chips in a Woodstock or +6V for the (NMOS?) chips in a Spice. There's also a RAM backup supply that comes straight from the battery +ve terminal via a diode (sometimes!) and resistor to the Vss pin of the RAM. If the battery pack is open-circuit or missing and you connect the charger with the machine turned _off_ then the RAM gets about 12V and promptly expires, sometimes taking other chips -- the ACT CPU and ROM -- with it. If the machine is turned on, the DC-DC converter normally draws enough current to pull the voltage down, but I wouldn't bet on it. I normally charge my battery packs in the HP 'reserve power packs' (standalone chargers), just to protect said custom RAMs. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 2 18:29:35 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: HP DOS computer selection advice sought In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040702144926.0092ede0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at Jul 2, 4 02:49:26 pm Message-ID: > Let's see. #2 will require a PC clone and you can't add an ISA card to a > HP-110 so it's out. #6 rules out things like HP-85s and the like. I can't > think of any HP machine that has an intregrated display that also has ISA > slots. MY suggestion would be to use an HP Intregral PC! But no wireless > networking for that one uneless you can find something that works via the > seriel port. Since it's HP-UX you also can't use any programs written for Rememebr that the serial port is not standard on the Integral -- HPIB is, and a couple of HP-HIL ports (actually kludged into one chain) for the keyboard and mouse). I have yet to find a serial card for my Intergral... Thrre was a GPIO (parallel, but not PC printer parallel) card for the Integral, but I've not seen that either. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 2 18:36:15 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners In-Reply-To: <001f01c46075$e2368340$0500fea9@game> from "Teo Zenios" at Jul 2, 4 04:48:09 pm Message-ID: > A car radio with tubes, man you must be old. I was into car stereos during I have a couple, although admittedly I don't remember them when they were in common use. [The zeroth generation -- too old even for me -- took the heater supply from the car battery and used a separate HT dry battery for the anode supply. I don't think these ever caught on] The first generation used a vibrator to chop the DC battery voltage, then stepped it up using a transformer. The output of that was rectified -- either a valve, a metal rectifier, or extra contacts on the vibrator. The rest of the radio was a fairly conventional AM superhet. There were 2 main layous. Either an under-dash model that had everything in one boxm or a tuner unit that was about the size of a modern car radio (and included the freuqnecy changer, IF, and detector valves) and a separate PSU/audio amplifier that mounted under the bonnet. This had the advantage of keeping the vibrtor noise away from the passengers ! Second generation valve car radios used special valves, designed to operate with an anode voltage of 12V (!) in the changer/IF stages, and a single power transistor in the audio output stage. Trnasistors were still expensive, and were better at audio than RF frequencies... Of course there was no HT supply, and thus no vibrator with these models. -tony From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri Jul 2 20:12:03 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: DEC Backplane (Was: Re: XTerms + DEC stuff + misc available (Cambridge, UK)) In-Reply-To: <1088762252.5525.42.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1088677561.4325.52.camel@weka.localdomain> <20040702011113.A13933@bos6.spole.gov> <1088762252.5525.42.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040703011203.GA10063@bos7.spole.gov> On Fri, Jul 02, 2004 at 09:57:33AM +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > Looks to be DDIIPK, part number 70-11523. That would be DD11PK... it's a CPU backplane for an 11/34. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 03-Jul-2004 01:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -95.4 F (-70.8 C) Windchill -136.7 F (-93.8 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10 kts Grid 057 Barometer 669 mb (11042. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From zmerch at 30below.com Fri Jul 2 20:13:09 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: [humor] Check this out... In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040701184401.0437d008@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040702211004.03a87fc0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Tony Duell may have mentioned these words: > > > > And you thought that HP never made wristwatches... > >And just what do you think an HP01 is? Having never seen one, nor ever heard reference to one, it could be a $5000 cruise missile...[1] So... now HP has made 2 wristwatches that I've heard of. Any more out there? Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger [1] that's what I get for assuming... hell, maybe they made one of those, too! -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From esharpe at uswest.net Fri Jul 2 20:33:31 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: [humor] Check this out.. HP01 Wrist Watch!. References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040701184401.0437d008@mail.30below.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20040702211004.03a87fc0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <001601c4609d$c00c9ac0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> they made a silver colored one and a gold colored one. we have 2 goldies, also have hp01 tee shirt, baseball cap both from company picnic also have instruction manuals and instruction cards and may have maint manual somewhere here.... Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Merchberger" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [humor] Check this out... > Rumor has it that Tony Duell may have mentioned these words: > > > > > > And you thought that HP never made wristwatches... > > > >And just what do you think an HP01 is? > > Having never seen one, nor ever heard reference to one, it could be a $5000 > cruise missile...[1] > > So... now HP has made 2 wristwatches that I've heard of. Any more out there? > > Laterz, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > > [1] that's what I get for assuming... hell, maybe they made one of those, too! > > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > zmerch@30below.com > > What do you do when Life gives you lemons, > and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? > > > From vax3900 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 2 20:47:32 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: KA655 problem In-Reply-To: <0407022333.AA16555@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <20040703014732.90665.qmail@web51803.mail.yahoo.com> --- Michael Sokolov wrote: > Dan Kolb wrote: > > > I decided to power on my MicroVAX 3800, after it's > been idling for a couple of > > years (unfortunately due to lack of time on my > part), only to find that it's > > not booting properly. The LED display on the > cover/patch panel sits saying 'F' > > (apparently "Waiting for CDOK"); nothing else > happens. Anyone got any ideas as > > to what may be wrong, or if it's fixable? > > First of all, it's DCOK, not "CDOK". Second, the > problem may not be in > the CPU board, it may be the PSU. E.g., it's out of > tolerance and does > not assert the DCOK signal. Follow Tony's advice: Agree. I have a VAX3900 . My guess is that you have kind of 'minimal' system such that all your boards are on the right half of the backplane. Since no board is drawing power from the leftside PSU it is unhappy. Solution is to add any board for the left side PSU as I did. I used a M9060 load board. vax, 3900 > check the PSU voltages > and the state of the DCOK signal before randomly > swapping parts (and > certainly before rushing out to eBay to buy a new > KA655 board). > > MS > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From cmcnabb at gmail.com Fri Jul 2 22:03:32 2004 From: cmcnabb at gmail.com (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners In-Reply-To: <001f01c46075$e2368340$0500fea9@game> References: <3.0.6.32.20040702145959.0086e6b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <001f01c46075$e2368340$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <145cecdd040702200321c1ac40@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 16:48:09 -0400, Teo Zenios wrote: > A car radio with tubes, man you must be old. I acquired a 1963 Chevy Nova last summer. The radio, unfortunately, is not a tube one, but is one of the first all transistor car radios. It is AM only and even has the Conelrad triangles (anyone remember what those are for?) on it. On the plus side, the car has only 109,000 original miles and just had it's 1st brake job EVER today. I know this because I have all the maintenance records from the dealer prep until today. From geneb at deltasoft.com Sat Jul 3 00:48:19 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: cable lacing... In-Reply-To: <6132036.1088808641799.JavaMail.root@bigbird.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: > very cool! Thanks Gene > You're welcome. When I get to the point of lacing up the new harnesses for my sim, I'll post links to the pictures so there will be "real world" step-by-step examples of how it's done. g. From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri Jul 2 15:49:58 2004 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: RK05/RL02 Boot Sequence References: <20040701084410.D4FA7790052@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <200407022049.QAA8813165@shell.TheWorld.com> >For example, in RT11 the bootstrap is 2 blocks long (block 2 is the >rest). It reads the directory to find the kernel and loads that, then >jumps to it. (Give or take some handwaving; Megan can improve on this >in her sleep...) :-) Actually, the primary boot is the first block (block 0). It has enough knowledge to pull in the second bootstrap, which is in blocks 2-5. Once the secondary boot is in, it knows how to locate and load the rest of the system, build the handler table, setup interrupts and finally start the keyboard monitor (KMON), which is what you type your commands to. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL,ST| email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01824 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at theworld.com Fri Jul 2 16:01:51 2004 From: mbg at theworld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: PDP OS Boot Sequence: WAS Re: RK05/RL02 Boot Sequence References: <20040701084410.D4FA7790052@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> <16612.6170.552500.656950@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200407022101.RAA8716454@shell.TheWorld.com> >Any ideas as to where can I get more details on the various OSes boot >sequence on the PDP11? > >Should have details like what disk block goes to which core address, how >to find/load/jump to the kernel..etc. Typically, for the -11's, the first block (block 0) of the device is loaded at address 0. The DEC bootblock standard calls for the first word to be a 5 (reset) and the second to be a branch to the rest of the code (so that locations 4/6 and 10/12 at a minimum are free for non-existent memory and illegal instruction traps). It is possible to write the primary boot block of a volume to contain the code to boot an entirely different device. For example, I have a machine which only knows how to boot from RX01/02, but I have an RL02 as well. I have one RX01 disk which has the RL01/02 primary boot code in block 0. So, when I boot dx0, the primary boot comes in off dx0, but the remainder of the boot process references dl0. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL,ST| email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01824 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri Jul 2 16:08:47 2004 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: DEC Backplane (Was: Re: XTerms + DEC stuff + misc available (Cambridge, UK)) References: <1088677561.4325.52.camel@weka.localdomain> <20040702011113.A13933@bos6.spole.gov> Message-ID: <200407022108.RAA8694125@shell.TheWorld.com> >Looks to be DDIIPK, part number 70-11523. I seem to remember (though may be wrong) that the DD11-PK is the backplane used in an 11/34. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL,ST| email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01824 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From bkvines at mac.com Fri Jul 2 19:24:17 2004 From: bkvines at mac.com (Bryan Vines) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: "Howdy" from another Timex guy Message-ID: <522B9031-CC87-11D8-B65E-000A95786A02@mac.com> Robert, I ran across a message of yours from late February of last year regarding an A&J MicroDrive. Did you ever find any useful information about it? I don't have one, but I've just started looking. I pulled my TS 2068 out of the attic last weekend and have been sort of rediscovering it. Anyhow, it's good to see that people are still using these old things. :) I've had my 2068 since I was about 16. Thanks... Bryan Vines bkvines@mac.com From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Sat Jul 3 04:34:30 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners References: <40E28759.F80CAB32@cs.ubc.ca> <88172dc74c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <01af01c460ed$ca568540$0200a8c0@geoff> Phil, I've got the Farnell "L" series instruction book complete with cct. diag. It doesn't mention L30B however only L30/1, L30/2 , L30/5. I haven't got a scanner but send me your snail mail address and you can borrow it to scan etc. for the cost of postage if no-one else has it . Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Pemberton" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 2:35 PM Subject: Re: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners > I think I've still got a power supply somewhere that has a flaky 5V > regulator. Sometimes the regulator starts up fine, then runs for hours. Other > times it just sits there dead - strangely enough, drumming one's fingers on > the casing usually gets the regulator to start. I'll fix the dry joint on the > PCB when my Farnell L30B bench PSU dies. Speaking of which, does anyone have > a service manual for the Farnell L30B power supply? > One of these days, I'll build a custom power supply. At the very least, the > L30B needs its switches, one of the meters and all of the potentiometers > replacing. Oh, and I need to find two self-tapping (?) screws to hold the > side panels on. Bleagh. > > Later. > -- > Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, > philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI > ... Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional!! From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Sat Jul 3 04:59:19 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes References: <3.0.6.32.20040630075815.0086c550@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><40E25BEA.1090200@citem.org> <40E25BEA.1090200@citem.org><3.0.6.32.20040630075815.0086c550@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040630172334.008f9160@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <01b001c460ed$cbe95a40$0200a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 10:23 PM Subject: Re: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes Spar Aerospace > Joe > That's a very humorous juxtaposition - spar is a supermarket chain over here. Geoff. From bert at brothom.nl Sat Jul 3 09:32:20 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: DOS_SOCK.LIB References: <200407020301.i6231Whm015824@queen.cs.drexel.edu> Message-ID: <40E6C374.1638FA1@brothom.nl> Vassilis Prevelakis wrote: > I am looking for the DOS_SOCK.LIB file. Its a library for developing > programs with sockets, for DOS. I found the following ref in the Microsoft > site: > > > MS-DOS TCP/IP for Lanman 2.2c and Microsoft Network Clients 3.0 > > support DOS Socket application and WinSock 1.1 application. Sockets.exe > > in MS-DOS TCP/IP is a terminate-and-stay-resident (TSR) program; > > it allows MS-DOS socket applications to run if they've been written > > with the Microsoft TCP/IP Sockets Development Kit Version 1.0, using > > the DOS Socket Library (DOS_SOCK.LIB) available in the Development > > Kit. > > I can't find the "Microsoft TCP/IP Sockets Development Kit Version 1.0" > on the Microsoft web site, so I am wondering whether somebody may have > a copy left over. If you find it: I'd like a copy as well. BTW, perhaps these "system calls" are documented in Ralph Browns Interrupt List? Regards, Bert From bert at brothom.nl Sat Jul 3 09:40:15 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners References: <200407010200.WAA26842@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <40E6C54F.E97428DC@brothom.nl> > I've never taken that drastic an approach to flipping a breaker since, > and don't expect to unless something fairly precious is at stake (say, > someone is being electrocuted, that's about the level of severity that > could lead me to crowbar a mains circuit). > I used to work in a factory where the electrical installation was basically undocumented. I was tought that to make sure to "power off" the right section, I had to make a short circuit. To do this, 1) always use proper insulated thick enough (in my case at least 2,5mm2) wire, 2) Do not hesitate, but handle firmly, as to not allow "bad connections" and 3) always look away when making the contact. I've seen many people looking surprised when I did this, but I feel it's indeed is a very secure way to make sure to switch off the right section. Bert From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Jul 3 09:27:57 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners References: <200407010200.WAA26842@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <40E6C54F.E97428DC@brothom.nl> Message-ID: <002001c46109$f01870b0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bert Thomas" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 10:40 AM Subject: Re: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners > > I've never taken that drastic an approach to flipping a breaker since, > > and don't expect to unless something fairly precious is at stake (say, > > someone is being electrocuted, that's about the level of severity that > > could lead me to crowbar a mains circuit). > > > > I used to work in a factory where the electrical installation was > basically undocumented. I was tought that to make sure to "power off" > the right section, I had to make a short circuit. To do this, 1) always > use proper insulated thick enough (in my case at least 2,5mm2) wire, 2) > Do not hesitate, but handle firmly, as to not allow "bad connections" > and 3) always look away when making the contact. > > I've seen many people looking surprised when I did this, but I feel it's > indeed is a very secure way to make sure to switch off the right > section. > > Bert > You did this with high voltage? Shorting out 480VAC by hand with a small cable is a good way to shit your pants at the very least. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Jul 3 11:23:48 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:06 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners In-Reply-To: <40E6C54F.E97428DC@brothom.nl> References: <200407010200.WAA26842@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <40E6C54F.E97428DC@brothom.nl> Message-ID: <200407031626.MAA12081@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I used to work in a factory where the electrical installation was > basically undocumented. I was tought that to make sure to "power > off" the right section, I had to make a short circuit. [...] > I've seen many people looking surprised when I did this, but I feel > it's indeed is a very secure way to make sure to switch off the right > section. Yes, it is that. But I still don't like it, and I suspect it's hard on the breaker. If I had to do such a "deliberate trip" today, I'd probably do something like plug in an iron and a hair dryer - high-draw devices that together exceed the breaker's trip point, but not as drastically so as a dead short. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Sat Jul 3 12:06:24 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners Message-ID: > If I had to do such a "deliberate trip" today, I'd probably do > something like plug in an iron and a hair dryer - high-draw devices > that together exceed the breaker's trip point, but not as drastically > so as a dead short. The trouble with that is most non-electronic breakers need 100% overcurrent to trip in <15 seconds, so it would take five 1500W hair dryers to trip a 15A circuit. This makes testing 100A three phase breakers interesting. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From bert at brothom.nl Sat Jul 3 11:21:56 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners References: <200407010200.WAA26842@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <40E6C54F.E97428DC@brothom.nl> <002001c46109$f01870b0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <40E6DD24.93FC6A17@brothom.nl> Teo Zenios wrote: > > > I used to work in a factory where the electrical installation was > > basically undocumented. I was tought that to make sure to "power off" > > the right section, I had to make a short circuit. To do this, 1) always > > use proper insulated thick enough (in my case at least 2,5mm2) wire, 2) > > Do not hesitate, but handle firmly, as to not allow "bad connections" > > and 3) always look away when making the contact. > > > > I've seen many people looking surprised when I did this, but I feel it's > > indeed is a very secure way to make sure to switch off the right > > section. > > > > Bert > > > > You did this with high voltage? Shorting out 480VAC by hand with a small > cable is a good way to shit your pants at the very least. No, only 230VAC. From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Sat Jul 3 12:46:24 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: cable lacing... Message-ID: > There was some discussion not too long ago about cable lacing > and I recently found a site some of you might be interested in: > http://www.dairiki.org/hammond/cable-lacing-howto/ Nice descriptions. It's good to know I've been doing it right for years even though I didn't know the terminology. The last image on the page is also how we attach silicone water pipes to the brass fittings in the transmitters. We can't use metal clamps as they get too hot from the RF and melt the external pipe braid. It's also the way potato peeler blades are, or used to be, fixed to the handles. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Sat Jul 3 12:51:40 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners Message-ID: >> You did this with high voltage? Shorting out 480VAC by hand with a small >> cable is a good way to shit your pants at the very least. > No, only 230VAC. Someone here - not me - closed an earthing VCB on to the live 11KV board. That made sure the power was off as it tripped the bus section and both the remote and local incomer breakers. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jul 3 13:46:20 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: terminal servers and hubs available (UK) Message-ID: <10407031946.ZM5043@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Over the next ten days or so, I'll be dumping several bits of old network equipment in the skip at work, and thought I'd see if anyone here might want any of it. Before you get too excited, some of it "needs attention", ie is faulty :-) Firstly, there's a pile (20 or so) of Emulex Performance 4000 32-port terminal servers. Not sure exactly which model, but I know that all the ones I have boot over the network (we used DECnet but BOOTP/TFTP should work just as well if set it up properly). You can get firmware and other stuff from Emulex's FTP site (I just checked). Each has 32 MMJ serial ports, a 10base2 BNC, 10base5 AUI, and possibly a parallel printer port. I can provide a bundle of short MMJ-to-RJ45 cables for each, if required. Unfortunately almost all are "dead". The common fault is a blown power supply -- they used to die regularly -- and probably not hard to fix if you have relevant experience/knowledge. The power supply is a 3-rail 60W circuit board, not unlike an industry-standard 3" x 5" unit, but slightly larger, so you might be able to persuade a standard unit to fit (spec is 5V @ 6A, +12V @ 1.5A, -12V @ 1.0A). The other pile I'm chucking contains a quantity of 10baseT 3Com FMS II hubs, some with management units, some without. Most are 24-port but some are 12-port. There should also be some 3Com PS II 40 hubs, all of which have on-board management, and all of which are 24-port. All are 19"-rack-mountable, and have a serial port (except the ones without management). The FMS units can accept one transceiver module in the back; the PS II 40s can accept two, and we have some spare modules (not sure what, but probably a few 10base5 AUI ports, one or two 10base2 with BNC connector, and some FOTs (10baseFX Fibre Optic Transceivers with ST connectors). The older ones aren't very exciting as hubs but are a useful source of Astec 40W (no, not 60W) 3-rail 3"x5" PSUs. Lastly, I have an HP LaserJet 5M printer with optional 500-sheet Tray 3 and a 10base2/10baseT/Appletalk network interface, in good condition. This is the only item I want a monetary contribution for: make me a (small) offer. These are PICK UP ONLY -- I haven't time or resource to ship things -- and must go within 10 days. They're "free to a good home" but without any manuals (unless you're extremely lucky) and with absolutely no warranty or even guarantee of electrical safety. If you want some of this stuff, please contact me off-list. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jul 3 13:45:10 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners In-Reply-To: References: <6.1.1.1.0.20040702075328.0367bdd8@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040703144510.0087aca0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:12 AM 7/3/04 +0100, you wrote: >> We had one of those haynes service manuals (it was an old car, so we'd > >I have been singularly unimpressed with Haynes manuals. They seem to omit >important information, not describe certain jobs (automatic >transmissions, diffeeentials, some electrical stuff, etc are regarded as >'too difficult for the home mechanic' -- BLETCH!), and even have some >serious errors. > >I try to get the offiical manufacturer's manual (I actually have quite a >shelf of them now) -- often it's expensive, but it's worth it. Tony's right. The Hayes manuals are junk. And the Chilton's manual are worse! Now when I buy a car I make the dealer include the factory manual. They're expensive as hell to buy but the dealers cost on them is about 1/3 of what they charge the public so they willingly include them if you tell them that it's the only way that you'll buy the car. And let me tell you, on a newer car with all the elctronics and computers you MUST have the factory manual if you want to have a ghost of a chance of fixing it. The dealers in this area charge $75 or more just to connect the readout box and read the diagnostic codes out of the computers. That alone will pay about half the price of a GOOD manual. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jul 3 13:54:12 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes In-Reply-To: <01b001c460ed$cbe95a40$0200a8c0@geoff> References: <3.0.6.32.20040630075815.0086c550@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <40E25BEA.1090200@citem.org> <40E25BEA.1090200@citem.org> <3.0.6.32.20040630075815.0086c550@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040630172334.008f9160@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040703145412.008fd210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:59 AM 7/3/04 +0100, you wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe R." >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 10:23 PM >Subject: Re: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes > > > Spar Aerospace >> Joe >> >That's a very humorous juxtaposition - spar is a supermarket chain over >here. > >Geoff. Interesting. Spar is probably the largest Aerospace company in Canada. They made the robotic arm for the space schuttle and they made FLIRs for us. FWIW after the program was cancelled a lot of the hardware ended up being scrapped and I found a 99% complete FLIR in a scrap yard. I'm now the proud owner of it :-) Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jul 3 13:39:32 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners In-Reply-To: <001f01c46075$e2368340$0500fea9@game> References: <3.0.6.32.20040702145959.0086e6b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040703143932.00877180@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:48 PM 7/2/04 -0400, you wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe R." >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 2:59 PM >Subject: RE: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners > > >> At 06:00 PM 7/2/04 +0100, you wrote: >> > >> > >> >Eventually we realised the noise we could just hear over the somewhat >> >loud Metallica Black album was the rear screen wiper swishing back and >> >forth across a dry screen. >> >> About 15 years ago I bought a really beat up 1962 Mercedes Benz 190SL >> roadster to restore. After I got it home I was checking everything out and >> I turned on the radio to see if it worked. Nothing, so I turned it off and >> added it to the list of things to fix. Later in the middle of the night I >> woke up and realized that the radio was so old that it probably used >vacuum >> tubes instead of transistors and probably needed to warm up before it >would >> work. It bothered me so much that I got up at 2 AM and went outside to try >> it. Sure enough it was fine after it warmed up for about 30 seconds. My >> only excuse is that I hadn't used a vacuum tube car radio since I was in >> about 3rd grade! >> >> Joe >> > >A car radio with tubes, man you must be old. I was into car stereos during >the 80's audio explosion and seen a few crazy things go on. Ever see what >happens when you put the fuse at the AMP side instead of the battery side >and the cable shorts out in an ungrometed hole through sheetmetal? Hmm. Fireworks to go with your music! Unfortunately yes! Have you ever had it happen while you're traveling down the raod at 90+ MPH? I have :-( I used to have the battery in my Dodge Challanger mounted in the trunk and the cable got against the exhaust pipe and the heat melted through the insulation. And since had a 440 cu. in. high compression engine I had a BIG battery in it. I had very heavy welding cable in it and it actually melted a large hole in the steel exhaust pipe instead melting the cable. Lucky I guessed what it was as soon as it happened and I got the car stopped and got to the battery within about 30 seconds and managed to yank the positive cable off of it by shear brute strength. However by that time the cable was literally glowing red hot and I still have scars on the palm of my right hand where I grabbed it. However at the time I was more worried about the battery exploding and/or the car burning up so I considered it a small price to pay. BTW the car is a 1970 Dodge Challanger RT convertible with the big block engine. The convertibles were only built for two years total and there were only 269 of them built with the big block engines so you can see why I very concerned about it burning up. Joe Joe From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat Jul 3 17:26:14 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: Honeywell manuals? Message-ID: Hi all, In the pile of stuff-to-sort, I found some Honeywell manuals. Is anyone on here interested? Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jul 3 18:19:11 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: Honeywell manuals? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >In the pile of stuff-to-sort, I found some Honeywell manuals. Is >anyone on here interested? I can't believe I'm asking this, what system, and what kind of manuals? Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 3 18:12:42 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040703144510.0087aca0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at Jul 3, 4 02:45:10 pm Message-ID: > >I try to get the offiical manufacturer's manual (I actually have quite a > >shelf of them now) -- often it's expensive, but it's worth it. > > > Tony's right. The Hayes manuals are junk. And the Chilton's manual are > worse! Now when I buy a car I make the dealer include the factory manual. Alas I am told that over here many manufacturers will no longer sell the official workshop manual at any price. And I can (just) remember when some manufactueres would send them out free if you bought the car.... No while I can reverse-engineer just about any piece of classic computer hardware given enough time, I don't think I could do the same for a car. Sure I could figure out what the bits did, what the connections were, etc, but I could not work out the correct tightening torques for all the bolts, etc. > They're expensive as hell to buy but the dealers cost on them is about 1/3 The cost doesn't really worry me. The one for the Citroan BX was about \pounds 130, and we made that back on the first repair we did. > of what they charge the public so they willingly include them if you tell > them that it's the only way that you'll buy the car. And let me tell you, > on a newer car with all the elctronics and computers you MUST have the > factory manual if you want to have a ghost of a chance of fixing it. The > dealers in this area charge $75 or more just to connect the readout box and > read the diagnostic codes out of the computers. That alone will pay about > half the price of a GOOD manual. Alas the manuals I've seen don't explain the internals of the ECUs (Electronic Control Units), they don't document the protocol for the diagnostic tester. So you still have to buy some overpriced readout tool to get the fault codes... Things were simpler 20 years ago when 99% of engice faults could tbe traced with a compression tester, timing light and Colourtunr (that's a sparking plug with a transparent glass insulator, so you can observer the mixture burning in the cylinder. It's one of the best things I know for tracing carburetter problems). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 3 18:05:08 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners In-Reply-To: <200407031626.MAA12081@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at Jul 3, 4 12:23:48 pm Message-ID: > > > I used to work in a factory where the electrical installation was > > basically undocumented. I was tought that to make sure to "power > > off" the right section, I had to make a short circuit. [...] > > > I've seen many people looking surprised when I did this, but I feel > > it's indeed is a very secure way to make sure to switch off the right > > section. > > Yes, it is that. But I still don't like it, and I suspect it's hard on > the breaker. It is. The fault current could easily exceed the maximum the breaker can handle (for a lot of UK MCBs, that might only be 16kA), at which point the breaker is not certain to close again, and if it does, then it's not certain it will trip properly in the future. It's like the crowbar thyristor in a PSU. If the regulator has failed and the crowbar has tripped and protected the rest of the machine, then I always replace the thyristor as part of the repair. I am not certain it's not been overcurrented (particularly if the overcurrent trip didn't work either, and I'd rather replace it now than have it not work next time the regulator falls. Incidentally, UK microwave ovens have a second interlock switch on the door that shoirt-circuits the mains connections after the normal interlock when the door is open. The idea is that if the normal interlock fails (contacts welded shut, or whatever), the second interlock will short circuit the mains nad blow the fuse. There's nearly always a resistor of about 0.25 -- 0.5 Ohms in series with it, which limits the fault current to something sane, preventing damage to breakers, etc. -tony From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat Jul 3 18:26:56 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: FREE: Honeywell 201 Logic Training Manual Message-ID: Hi all, As said.. this manual ia available. Its the 1965 Field Service Training Manual for the Honeywell 201 Central Processor. Thanks, Fred From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat Jul 3 18:28:46 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: FREE: IBM software/manuals (S/36) Message-ID: Hi All, Available are three binders with PC Support/36 User Guide PC Support/36 Technical Reference PC Support/36 Organizer and some manuals for the 3197 model D terminal. Thanks, Fred From aek at spies.com Sat Jul 3 19:03:32 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: Honeywell manuals Message-ID: <20040704000332.1F3F63E13@spies.com> > FREE: Honeywell 201 Logic Training Manual I'd like to add this to the material on bitsavers that I already have on the H200 From tponsford at theriver.com Sat Jul 3 08:43:26 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: Emulex SC031 Qbus smd controller Message-ID: <40E6B7FE.6070203@theriver.com> Hi All, Apart from the motorola x86 qbus system, I also picked up a 11/73 in a BA11-SA chassis. Apart from having a noisy fan, it starts to the ODT. On looking at the cards, I noticed it had an emulex controller. I assumed it woulf be for a mfm disk, But on closer inspection, it appears to be a SC0310201-BX, Which and is for SMD disks.(emulates RH11,RM02,RM03,RM05, and RP06. The pdp didn't come with any disks, and I'll probably stick an esdi or RD disk in it, should I not find a suitable disk :-( Assuming I can hunt up a disk, I can't seem to locate a manual on bitsavers, or anywhere. The only manuals I located were for unibus controllers Anybody out there have a manual they could photocopy/sell., etc Cheers Tom -- --- Please do not read this sig. If you have read this far, please unread back to the beginning. From aek at spies.com Sat Jul 3 22:31:28 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: SC03 manual Message-ID: <20040704033128.9ABF23E22@spies.com> I can't seem to locate a manual on bitsavers, or anywhere. -- www.bitsavers.org/pdf/emulex/SC0351002-J_SC03tech_Nov84.pdf From tponsford at theriver.com Sat Jul 3 09:37:41 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: SC03 manual In-Reply-To: <20040704033128.9ABF23E22@spies.com> References: <20040704033128.9ABF23E22@spies.com> Message-ID: <40E6C4B5.9060908@theriver.com> Hi All Al Kossow wrote: > I can't seem to locate a manual on bitsavers, > or anywhere. > > -- > > www.bitsavers.org/pdf/emulex/SC0351002-J_SC03tech_Nov84.pdf I did download the pdf before , but upon reading it, I noticed that the manual was for the unibus version. I have the qbus version. What would the significant differences be? I know the option and configuration switches and jumpers are somewhat different comparing the unibus version with the qbus version I have. Cheers Tom > -- --- Please do not read this sig. If you have read this far, please unread back to the beginning. From aek at spies.com Sat Jul 3 23:46:52 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: SC03 manual Message-ID: <20040704044652.97AA73E22@spies.com> I did download the pdf before , but upon reading it, I noticed that the manual was for the unibus version. -- You downloaded the wrong manual I double-checked, and SC0351002-J_SC03tech_Nov84.pdf is the Qbus version. From esharpe at uswest.net Sun Jul 4 00:51:47 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: need 8 mhz vertra! References: <3.0.6.32.20040702144926.0092ede0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <003b01c4618a$fe7db990$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> need 8 mhz vertra! Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 11:49 AM Subject: Re: HP DOS computer selection advice sought > At 09:09 AM 7/2/04 -0500, you wrote: > >I have a large multi-tier printer stand on casters that I use for my HP > >logic analyzer setup. 1631D analyzer, 9122 dual floppy drive, 2225 printer, > >probe hangers, etc. It's nice to have on that stand because I can roll it > >around the work area from system to system easily. > > > >I would like to put a computer on that stand too, that has HP-IB interface > >(all the gear above is HP-IB). The primary purpose of the computer is to > >interface to the logic analyzer, but I will also use it for interfacing to > >my Data I/O programmer, various DOS programs like IC stat lookup, etc. > > > >My problem is I'm not that familiar with HP DOS machines. I have particular > >requirements for this and I'm not sure what model to look for. Perhaps those > >familiar with HP's DOS machine lineage can suggest a machine I should look > >for. Here's the criteria: > > > >1) It has to be an HP. My TI3100 would look out of place with all the HP > >gear on the rack :) > >2) It has to allow putting an 8 bit ISA HP-IB card in it (or dare I say > >already support HP-IB) > >3) It really needs 1mb of RAM for some of the programs I want to run on it. > >4) DOS version needs to be 5.0 or better, would be nice if I could use the > >free DR-DOS > >5) It would have to have an external serial port > >6) I would like to get it on the wireless network. I was thinking of using > >the zircom parallel port adapter I have, and then getting an ethernet to > >wireless bridge. Of course, I have to find DOS TCP/IP drivers for the > >zircom, if such a thing exists. I'm open to options here. > >7) Vertical space is a premium on the rack, so I would prefer something > >without a full-size monitor, preferrably an all-in-one unit rather than > >separate cpu, keyboard, monitor, etc. > >8) Would need at least 40mb hard disk. > >9) Need a somewhat standard size keyboard (this rules out my 200LX). > > > >So far from my looking around, the HP 110 seems very close to what I'd want. > >The small vertical height of the screen is a big plus, but, I really have to > >have 80x24. Plus the 110 seems to be stuck with 256k ram and only DOS 2.11. > >I would LOVE to use my HP-85 for this, but alas, it isn't going to be > >running promlink anytime soon. Can anyone suggest a vintage PC machine for > >this purpose? > > > > > Let's see. #2 will require a PC clone and you can't add an ISA card to a > HP-110 so it's out. #6 rules out things like HP-85s and the like. I can't > think of any HP machine that has an intregrated display that also has ISA > slots. MY suggestion would be to use an HP Intregral PC! But no wireless > networking for that one uneless you can find something that works via the > seriel port. Since it's HP-UX you also can't use any programs written for > PCs. Another suggestion is a Compaq Portable-III or Portable 386 with the > ISA expansion pod on the back but that's not an HP product. The only HP > computer that comes close is one of the older Vectras but they use regular > CGA/EGA/VGA monitors. You could use one of those with a flat LCD monitor. I > think $HP $even $makes $them $now. I suppose something like the Omnibook > 430 that I just picked up would work if you put the wireless network card > and HP-IB in PCMCIA slots but PCMCIA HP_IB interfaces are probably > expensive. Have you seen an Omnibook 430? It looks just like a HP-200LX > but it's about twice as big so the keyboard and screen have a decent size. > > If you're interested in an old Vectra, I have one that I'm supposed to > pick up later today or tomorrow. It looks like it's in good condition but I > haven't checked it. They use regular PC type components and they're about > 13" square and about 7" tall. It's probably an old 286 12Mhz machine but > they work fine. That's what I'm using for my HP HyperViper setup. BTW I do > have the CMOS setup disks for them too. > > Joe > From spc at conman.org Sun Jul 4 01:07:58 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jul 04, 2004 12:12:42 AM Message-ID: <20040704060758.810A410B3CC3@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Tony Duell once stated: > > Alas the manuals I've seen don't explain the internals of the ECUs > (Electronic Control Units), they don't document the protocol for the > diagnostic tester. So you still have to buy some overpriced readout tool > to get the fault codes... Things were simpler 20 years ago when 99% of > engice faults could tbe traced with a compression tester, timing light > and Colourtunr (that's a sparking plug with a transparent glass > insulator, so you can observer the mixture burning in the cylinder. It's > one of the best things I know for tracing carburetter problems). I have a friend that writes car diagnostic software and from what he's told me so far (at least in the US) there are several different protocols in use (some as slow as 5 baud; I forgot what the fastest was) and about the only thing that's been standardized right now is the diagnostic connector, and it's location (beneath the steering column) and the pin outs for each major manufacturer (Ford gets pins x,y and z, while GM gets pins a,b,c and d, stuff like that). He's having a blast, and it's amazing just how computerized cars are nowadays (his cow-orker is able to control every aspect of a car's operation (including wipers!) except for steering and on a manual, the transmission) and that for modern cars it's not unusual to have up to 40 addressable units within the car. He also says that you can get programs specific to the locale you live in (here, that would be a flat, sub-tropical locale, being we both live in South Florida) and that such programming can increase gas milage, but you have to ask the dealership specifically for such programming. Neat stuff, but for me, all second hand information ... -spc (To think there's a network in my car ... ) From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Sun Jul 4 01:15:13 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: SC03 manual In-Reply-To: <40E6C4B5.9060908@theriver.com> Message-ID: <002601c4618e$444a3220$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > I did download the pdf before , but upon reading it, I > noticed that the manual > was for the unibus version. I have the qbus version. What would the > significant differences be? I know the option and > configuration switches and > jumpers are somewhat different comparing the unibus version > with the qbus > version I have. I have "SC0351002 Rev M". The table of contents lists "2.3.2 Q-Bus Interface" so perhaps this one will be of more use to you. If this looks sufficiently different to Al's version (I cannot download from bitsavers right now), send me e-mail and I'll zip it up and make it available for you to download. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sun Jul 4 01:28:16 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200407040633.CAA16902@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > The trouble with that is most non-electronic breakers need 100% > overcurrent to trip in <15 seconds, so it would take five 1500W hair > dryers to trip a 15A circuit. At 120V, 1500W is 12.5A (assuming a purely resistive load, which for a hair dryer is slightly inaccurate but not enough so to worry about). 100% overcurrent on a 15A circuit is 30A. 30/12.5 = 2.4. Where did you get "five"? Are you thinking European mains voltage maybe? Since I'm in North America, it's unlikely I'd be working with 240V. > This makes testing 100A three phase breakers interesting. Well, yes. That is the sort of circumstance that made me add "probably" to my comment - I am unlikely to be working on such equipment. :-) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sun Jul 4 02:16:23 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: Assorted on-topic stuff Message-ID: <200407040735.DAA17121@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> I recently came into possession of a relatively large pile of on-topic stuff, and have some of my own that I want to get rid of. I haven't completed inventorying it all yet - there are a half-dozen boxes I've yet to look through - but it's slow enough going that I'm sending around a list of what I have inventoried in case anyone is interested. When I get the rest gone through I'll post another list. This stuff is all "cover shipping from Montreal and it's yours". That includes free if picked up - drop me a line to arrange such. Feel free to ask questions if you want more information about anything. Except as noted, everything is untested; some items I can test if desired - again, drop me a line. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B The list, mostly in no particular order: TI Programmable 57 pocket calculator, including wall-wart, carrying case, and "Making Tracks Into Programming" manual. Battery pack included but will not charge enough to power the calculator even for seconds. Red filter over display has come loose but is present. Worked as of a month or two ago, when powered with wall-wart. Some keys occasionally act a little flaky. I bought this new on 1981-01-26 and still have the receipt. Numerous (ca. 20-30) cables, 25-pair POTS-quality wire. One end has Centronics-50 connector; the other is loose wire ends. Length is some small numbers of metres - about right for cross-connect within a wiring closet. A rackmount panel with 64 eight-conductor RJ45-style jacks on the front; on the back, each four jacks are wired to a Centronics-50 connector. A C-50 gender-bender is attached to each. Note these are NOT Cat-V, probably not even Cat-III - they look intended for POTS use, or perhaps serial lines, to my eye. A rackmount power switch/filter of some kind. It has a mains cable (which is cut off near the box), a space where a switch has been removed, and five outlets (two "filtered" and three "unfiltered") of the sort you find on some computers to feed switched power to another box - the same connector you find on the computer end of most computer mains cords. The metal box has a corner twisted and torn; it either suffered a peculiar accident or was attacked by someone who wanted to get into it but couldn't be bothered to remove the screws. Inkjet cartridge refilling equipment (syringe, hole-maker, small bottle of black ink). Old Sun-2-era external disk enclosure, ca. 1'x1'x4". Two DD50F SCSI connectors and mains power connector. Contains power supply, Micropolis 1325 drive, adapter board between SCSI and the drive, and internal cabling to hook it all together. EMP "Manual Mini Modem MM-102". Not acoustic-coupler, but almost that old; has answer/off/originate switch, power-on and carrier-detect lights. Includes wall-wart thought, but not tested, to go with it. Captive telco cable ending in RJ11 plug; also has RJ11 "TELE JACK" connector and DB25F connector for host. Ten Cabletron TPT-2 AUI-to-UTP transceivers. These predate the current 10baseT standard for link test; they do not reliably detect link when connected to (some) modern equipment, but at least two of them work fine when connected to one another with a crossed cable. There presumably exists 10baseT equipment they work with; as far as I know I have none. Hayes Smartmodem 2400. In original package, including styrofoam packing, box, manuals, business-reply cards, wall-wart. Box has some cosmetic damage - scuffs, small rips - but is basically intact; the styrofoam has basically no damage and the modem's cosmetic condition verges on pristine. Packard Bell PB2400PLUS modem. Includes wall-wart, manuals, 5?" floppy still in sealed envelope, styrofoam packing, but not surrounding box. S-100 (I think) board from Cromemco, labeled "8K BYTESAVER" with eight 24-pin DIP sockets. It includes a switch labeled "PROGRAM POWER" and a 7812, so I assume it is a PROM reader/burner. S-100 (I think) board. It looks like a memory board; it is marked "S100" and "10032-B" and includes a 4x16 array of 18-pin DIP sockets, all empty. It has 32 ceramic disc capacitors, presumably for power-supply decoupling; two are physically damaged to the point where I would not trust them to remain unshorted without testing. SPARCstation 2 mainboard. The CPU has been replaced with a Weitek POWER?P. No RAM. This board does not work; my best guess is that the fault is in the CPU. An ISA card from "ARCHIVE CORPORATION". Back-panel interface is a DB25F, with a 50-pin header just behind this. Marked "ASSY 80530-151" and "REV A"; the "151" and "REV A" are stamped, the "ASSY" and "80530-" are silkscreened. A MITEL SMART-1, whatever that is. It's marked "PAV Chaining" and "Positive Account Code Verification With Chaining". The interfaces are: a peculiar 3-pin power connector; a jack which is physically RJ45-compatible; and a DB25F. I suspect the jack is actually for POTS, since the device is marked with Canadian telco regulatory foo. The matching power supply is included. Two cables from Centronics-50 to DA15, with handwritten tags saying things like "PBX<->NAV" "PRI #1". An octopus cable from a DE9F to three DB25Ms. The DB25Ms have only some pins present: 1 2 3 4 6 7 8 20 on two connectors, the third the same except lacking pin 6. Six DE9M-to-DE9F video cables from the Sun-3 days, when they used monochrome monitors with DE9 connectors. Three co-ax cables with BNC connectors on the ends; one marked with masking tape and marker G, one B, and the third (apparently identical otherwise) unmarked. Eight NeXT video cables - the 19-pin D-shell kind. Seven are about a foot and a half long, the other more like nine or ten feet. A PC case. Contains practically nothing - internal wiring for the front-panel switches is about it. No power supply or mobo. Two Sun-3/60 cases, with power supplies but no machines or plastic cosmetic covers - just the metal boxes with the power supplies. Various books: Introduction to the AMIGA 2000 AMIGA BASIC The AmigaDOS Manual (two copies) AMIGA Hardware Reference Manual AMIGA ROM Kernel Reference Manual: Exec AMIGA ROM Kernel Reference Manual: Libraries and Devices AMIGA Intuition Referenec Manual Inside AegisDRAW Amiga Programmer's HANDBOOK INSIDE AMIGA Graphics COMPUTE!'s AMIGA PROGRAMMER'S GUIDE A?TALK III Inside the Amiga Programmer's Guide to the Amiga Advanced Amiga BASIC Amiga 3D Graphic Programming in BASIC Secrets of the COMMODORE 64 Commodore 64/128 Assembly Language Programming 35 AMAZING GAMES For Your Commodore 64 LEARN TO PROGRAM THE COMMODORE 64 ALL BY YOURSELF! (course notes) COMMODORE 64 PROGRAMMER'S REFERENCE GUIDE MAPPING THE Commodore 64 C64 user's manual MASTERING SIGHT AND SOUND ON THE COMMODORE 64 COMMODORE 64 USER'S GUIDE COMMODORE 64 GRAPHICS Your Commodore 64 TROUBLESHOOTING & REPAIRING YOUR COMMODORE 64 A whole boxful of 3?" floppies, I think for an Amiga. (This is a largeish box, maybe 1'x1?'x6", not just a floppy-storage box.) Sun books and media: Solaris 2.2 System Configuration and Installation Guide Solaris 2.0 System Configuration and Installation Guide Solaris 2.4 Introduction Solaris 2.4 System AnswerBook CD (package still sealed) WABI 2.0 for Solaris 2 CD (package still sealed) Solaris Quick Start Guide (801-6612-10; Rev A, August 1994) Solaris 2.4: Latest News (still sealed in shrinkwrap) Software and AnswerBook Packages Administration Guide (Solaris 2.4) SPARC: Installing Solaris Software (Solaris 2.4) SPARCompiler C User's Guide (Version 3.0.1 for Solaris) A few light-cardboard four-colour-glossies. A three-ring binder marked "SunOS 4.1 Release & Install"; it appears to contain exactly that. The plastic piece that tries to keep the pages from ripping is split across, but both pieces are present. A package marked "NetWorker for Solaris 4.0.2" and "Online: DiskSuite 3.0". It contains a CD jewel case marked "NetWorker for Solaris", still shrinkwrapped; stapled pages marked "Networker for Solaris Single Server 4.0.2 Release Notes"; stapled pages marked "Online: DiskSuite 3.0 Release Notes"; and an envelope marked "NetWorker for Solaris Enabler Certificate Enclosed", seal still intact. "Binary Code License" - EULA for something from Sun. Doesn't say what it applies to specifically, just "the accompanying software". It may or may not have originally accompanied one or more of the CDs above. Sun SPARCstation 1 doc box, containing SPARCstation 1 Installation Guide SPARCstation 1 Sun System User's Guide Computers of the C=64/TI99 era (post-8008 pre-IBMPC), and related stuff. When something is "supposedly" for use with a given machine, this means that it was so marked by the person I got this stuff from, but I haven't tried it myself. Interact Integrated keyboard and cassette tape Apparently designed for TV output; captive output co-ax cable Captive power cable to wall-wart (North American plug) Connectors: DB25F and two DE9Ms Back has sticker saying INTERACT ELECTRONICS, INC. MODEL NO. ONE FCC TYPE APPROVAL NUMBER, TV-579 MANUFACTURER, INTERACT ELECTRONICS, INC. SERIAL NUMBER, 0 1 4 5 7 5 VALID ONLY WHEN OPERATED PURSUANT TO F.C.C. RULES, PART 15 Fragments apparently constituting most of another Interact (keyboard, cassette mechanism, wall-wart, main board with two empty IC sockets, one probably the CPU). Amiga 2000. Includes keyboard and mouse but no display. (See also Amiga stuff above.) Includes some six to eight inches of paper which appears to be printouts and doc photocopies for Atari stuff. TI-99/4A ("TEXAS INSTRUMENTS HOME COMPUTER"). In what appears to be the original packaging, with power supply and TV video modulator. Commodore 64, in what appears to be the original box, with power supply, TV video monulator, a couple of other cables, a spare keyboard(!), and an antistatic bag which supposedly contains chips pulled from another C64. Laser 128, in the original box (which claims it's Apple IIe/IIc compatible but has "everything" already built in). A Commodore "Single Drive Floppy Disk", model 1541 - an external 5?" floppy drive, supposedly for the C64. Nine joysticks, supposedly for the C64. A "64modem", presumably a modem for the C64. (Connectors and markings are consistent with that theory.) A "B.I. printer interface", supposedly for the C64. A VOLKS 6480 modem (1200/300 BPS, autodial/autoanswer, for the C64 and C128, if the box is to be believed). An obviously homebrew (and rather carelessly built) reset button attachment, supposedly for the C64. A "Forth 64" cartridge, from "handic software ab", presumably (and supposedly) for the C64. A C64 three-in-one card. This has three card-edge connectors and a three-position switch, and a single card edge to plug into a C64. Presumably it's so you can leave three things physically connected all the time and switch which one is logically connected with the switch, instead of constantly swapping modules. Bears the name "NAVARONE". A C64 four-in-one card. This has four card-edge connectors and a single card edge to plug into a C64. There is also an enable switch next to each socket, a reset button, and a fuse. Bears the name APROTEK. Comes with a slip of paper which is akin to a user's manual and a piece of ribbon cable with a card edge on one end and a card-edge connector on the other. The conductor count and inter-connector spacing are different from those on the gadget itself. Two cables, about five feet long, with a peculiar DIN-shell four-conductor connector on one end and bare wire ends on the other. Pin placement on the connector is identical on both cables. Something in a box which is hand-marked "Pow. Sup. C64 Repairable". The device is marked "INPUT 117VAC 60HZ" "OUTPUT 5VDC-1.8A 9VAC9VA". Included is a sheet with something that could reasonably be a schematic for such a power supply, though I haven't opened the device to check whether it matches the schematic. It has two cords, one to a North American mains plug, the other to a 7-pin DIN-shell connector. A "PROTECTO BIG BLUE PRINTER INTERFACE", in a box hand-marked with the Commodore name. A good deal of paper, including such things as documentation in French for NetNorth/BITNET and a number of pages torn from magazines containing computer-related articles, and documentation for a number of games. It wouldn't surprise me to find a floppy or two amid them; I didn't go through them in detail. From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jul 4 03:10:46 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: Assorted on-topic stuff In-Reply-To: <200407040735.DAA17121@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200407040735.DAA17121@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <40E7BB86.10904@mdrconsult.com> der Mouse wrote: > I recently came into possession of a relatively large pile of on-topic > stuff, and have some of my own that I want to get rid of. I haven't > completed inventorying it all yet - there are a half-dozen boxes I've > yet to look through - but it's slow enough going that I'm sending > around a list of what I have inventoried in case anyone is interested. > When I get the rest gone through I'll post another list. > > This stuff is all "cover shipping from Montreal and it's yours". That > includes free if picked up - drop me a line to arrange such. > I'd like to have the A2000, the 3.5" floppies, and the Sun WABI set. If nobody else has already claimed them, let me know how much S&H will run to Austin, Texas, Zip code 78748. Doc Shipley From denever1 at freemail.hu Sun Jul 4 03:41:18 2004 From: denever1 at freemail.hu (Denever) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: omnibook Message-ID: <626972661.20040704104118@freemail.hu> Hello Joe & All, > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 10:00:01 -0400 > From: "Joe R." > Subject: HP Omnibook 430 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > I picked up one of these from a surplus store yesterday. Unfortunately > soembody removed the system card that contains the special version of > Windows and some other software from it. Does anyone have an xtra system > card or the external floppy drive for one of these? > > Joe I have one, but not an extra..:). External floppies are very rare, but you can better use CF cards to transfer files. Here you can find everything about omnibooks: http://24.237.160.4/files/omnibook/ And there is an omnibook mailing list archive somewhere...try googling on it. Long time ago there was a thread about dumping the original HP card and copying it to cf to substitute the missing original..never tryed and no more memories on this... -- Best regards, Denever mailto:denever1@freemail.hu From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jul 4 04:08:35 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: Assorted on-topic stuff In-Reply-To: <40E7BB86.10904@mdrconsult.com> References: <200407040735.DAA17121@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <40E7BB86.10904@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <40E7C913.7020701@mdrconsult.com> Doc Shipley wrote: > der Mouse wrote: > Doc Shipley And of course, I forgot to take it off-list. Sorry, y'all. Doc From hansp at citem.org Sat Jul 3 07:22:26 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes In-Reply-To: <200406300757.05968.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <3.0.6.32.20040630071455.00926100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200406300757.05968.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <40E6A502.7050101@citem.org> Patrick Finnegan wrote: >On Wednesday 30 June 2004 06:14, Joe R. wrote: > > >>I sell on E-bay and I send about half >>the stuff that I sell over seas. The one problem that I've had is >>that many over seas buyers never pay. Perhaps they bid then find out >>the high shipping costs and costs of making payments via Western >>Union or whoever and then just back out without saying anything. I'm >>been waiting 6 weeks for payment on some DEC parts right now. As far >>as the shippers go, I've found many of them to be incredibly lazy and >>greedy! A lot of them want $35 or sometimes even $50 handling charge >>for the smallest item. My opinion is that packing and handling is >>part of the cost of doing business unless it's something extra >>ordinary. >> >> > >I'd completely agree with Joe's assessment. The only reason I'm >hesitant to send things internationally is because payment for the >items ends up being difficult sometimes. I now have listed in my >auctions that I only accept paypal internationally, but if prodded, I'd >accept cheques from Canada (as I've had good success with that before) >or Western Union as one guy used that to send me payment before. > > I understand the issues of difficulty of payment. I have bank accounts in three countries and two continents so I can usually pay in a currency local to the seller. Asking to be paid in the currency local to the seller is IMHO quite acceptable. As to international buyers not paying, apply the normal rules : payment within 10 days or negative feedback! I see no reason to give an international buyer any slack other than (at their request) a few days grace to allow for the extra time for the mailed check or whatever to reach you. I have a blemish free ebay record and most of my transactions are international in one way or another. My most frustrating experience was having my last minute winning bid canceled by a seller because I was not in the US (AFAIR they did not specify US only buyers). I was frustrated at not getting something I really wanted, he lost out by accepting a lower bid price. -- HansP From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jul 4 06:44:01 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: need 8 mhz vertra! In-Reply-To: <003b01c4618a$fe7db990$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> References: <3.0.6.32.20040702144926.0092ede0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040704074401.008f7300@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> What's a Vertra? Joe At 10:51 PM 7/3/04 -0700, you wrote: >need 8 mhz vertra! > >Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC > >Please check our web site at > http://www.smecc.org >to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we >buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. > >address: > > coury house / smecc >5802 w palmaire ave >glendale az 85301 > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe R." >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 11:49 AM >Subject: Re: HP DOS computer selection advice sought > > >> At 09:09 AM 7/2/04 -0500, you wrote: >> >I have a large multi-tier printer stand on casters that I use for my HP >> >logic analyzer setup. 1631D analyzer, 9122 dual floppy drive, 2225 >printer, >> >probe hangers, etc. It's nice to have on that stand because I can roll it >> >around the work area from system to system easily. >> > >> >I would like to put a computer on that stand too, that has HP-IB >interface >> >(all the gear above is HP-IB). The primary purpose of the computer is to >> >interface to the logic analyzer, but I will also use it for interfacing >to >> >my Data I/O programmer, various DOS programs like IC stat lookup, etc. >> > >> >My problem is I'm not that familiar with HP DOS machines. I have >particular >> >requirements for this and I'm not sure what model to look for. Perhaps >those >> >familiar with HP's DOS machine lineage can suggest a machine I should >look >> >for. Here's the criteria: >> > >> >1) It has to be an HP. My TI3100 would look out of place with all the HP >> >gear on the rack :) >> >2) It has to allow putting an 8 bit ISA HP-IB card in it (or dare I say >> >already support HP-IB) >> >3) It really needs 1mb of RAM for some of the programs I want to run on >it. >> >4) DOS version needs to be 5.0 or better, would be nice if I could use >the >> >free DR-DOS >> >5) It would have to have an external serial port >> >6) I would like to get it on the wireless network. I was thinking of >using >> >the zircom parallel port adapter I have, and then getting an ethernet to >> >wireless bridge. Of course, I have to find DOS TCP/IP drivers for the >> >zircom, if such a thing exists. I'm open to options here. >> >7) Vertical space is a premium on the rack, so I would prefer something >> >without a full-size monitor, preferrably an all-in-one unit rather than >> >separate cpu, keyboard, monitor, etc. >> >8) Would need at least 40mb hard disk. >> >9) Need a somewhat standard size keyboard (this rules out my 200LX). >> > >> >So far from my looking around, the HP 110 seems very close to what I'd >want. >> >The small vertical height of the screen is a big plus, but, I really have >to >> >have 80x24. Plus the 110 seems to be stuck with 256k ram and only DOS >2.11. >> >I would LOVE to use my HP-85 for this, but alas, it isn't going to be >> >running promlink anytime soon. Can anyone suggest a vintage PC machine >for >> >this purpose? >> > >> >> >> Let's see. #2 will require a PC clone and you can't add an ISA card to >a >> HP-110 so it's out. #6 rules out things like HP-85s and the like. I can't >> think of any HP machine that has an intregrated display that also has ISA >> slots. MY suggestion would be to use an HP Intregral PC! But no wireless >> networking for that one uneless you can find something that works via the >> seriel port. Since it's HP-UX you also can't use any programs written for >> PCs. Another suggestion is a Compaq Portable-III or Portable 386 with the >> ISA expansion pod on the back but that's not an HP product. The only HP >> computer that comes close is one of the older Vectras but they use regular >> CGA/EGA/VGA monitors. You could use one of those with a flat LCD monitor. >I >> think $HP $even $makes $them $now. I suppose something like the Omnibook >> 430 that I just picked up would work if you put the wireless network card >> and HP-IB in PCMCIA slots but PCMCIA HP_IB interfaces are probably >> expensive. Have you seen an Omnibook 430? It looks just like a HP-200LX >> but it's about twice as big so the keyboard and screen have a decent size. >> >> If you're interested in an old Vectra, I have one that I'm supposed to >> pick up later today or tomorrow. It looks like it's in good condition but >I >> haven't checked it. They use regular PC type components and they're about >> 13" square and about 7" tall. It's probably an old 286 12Mhz machine but >> they work fine. That's what I'm using for my HP HyperViper setup. BTW I do >> have the CMOS setup disks for them too. >> >> Joe >> > > > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Jul 4 07:35:47 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: creating CDs for use with SGI systems Message-ID: <1088944546.14331.216.camel@weka.localdomain> Silly question, I know... I need to create a CD with files on for access by an SGI system. Of course, the SGI uses a CDROM drive that uses 512 byte blocks. My desktop PC's the only thing with a CD burner in it, which is naturally set to a block size of 2048. >From the point of view of creating a CD, does this matter? Or is the block size issue only to do with transferring data from the CD unit to the host, and iso9660 is the same on both platforms? It's one of those stupid questions that I really don't know the answer to - I'm used to either just dealing with CDs on a PC, or using original vendor media on systems which use 512 blocks (such as Sun and SGI) I've only got a couple of decent branded blank CDs left in the house, or I'd just risk trashing one and find out for myself :-) cheers, Jules From Jens.Tipp at gmx.de Sun Jul 4 04:43:15 2004 From: Jens.Tipp at gmx.de (Jens-Christian Tipp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: HP HEDS-3000 WAND Message-ID: <30452.1088934195@www16.gmx.net> Hi Tony, Some 20 years ago I have had to job with the WAND and created lot of Barcode-Stickers for the Spareparts in our company. Now I got again the Job to filter those parts (Usable-Non usable), but somehow someone must have trown away the software for the Wand. At my search in the Nert I found your remarks regarding some application for an HX-20 (long time ago, study's) Question: Do you still pocess those software and are you willing/able to share it with me? Regards from Germany Jens -- "Sie haben neue Mails!" - Die GMX Toolbar informiert Sie beim Surfen! Jetzt aktivieren unter http://www.gmx.net/info From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Sun Jul 4 09:27:14 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: creating CDs for use with SGI systems In-Reply-To: <1088944546.14331.216.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <000701c461d3$0e804ea0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > From the point of view of creating a CD, does this matter? Or is the > block size issue only to do with transferring data from the CD unit to > the host, and iso9660 is the same on both platforms? The block size just reflects how the host machine chooses to read (or write) the data. The actual pattern of bits on the CD-R(W) is not affected. I've written a few ODS-2 CDs (OpenVMS format) quite happily on a PC CD-RW (and now a DVD-RW). I've also written a few CDs for my Ultra 5 too. If you want to swap the CDROM in your SGI (or Sun or VAX or Alpha) you will need one that meets its requirements, obviously. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From thompson at new.rr.com Sun Jul 4 10:51:23 2004 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: KA655 problem In-Reply-To: <20040703014732.90665.qmail@web51803.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040703014732.90665.qmail@web51803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Jul 2004, SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: > Agree. I have a VAX3900 > . My > guess is that you have kind of 'minimal' system such > that all your boards are on the right half of the > backplane. Since no board is drawing power from the > leftside PSU it is unhappy. Solution is to add any > board for the left side PSU as I did. I used a M9060 > load board. I'd like to know if there is anything different about the BA213 backplanes which came with the eariler? DECserver 500's. They have only a plug on the backplane for the right power supply. I wonder if this backplane would work on a lightly loaded VAX which makes me wonder if there is something different about the board which allows DCOK to work with only one H7868 power supply. From dankolb at ox.compsoc.net Sun Jul 4 11:09:48 2004 From: dankolb at ox.compsoc.net (Dan Kolb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: KA655 problem In-Reply-To: <0407022333.AA16555@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0407022333.AA16555@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <20040704160948.GA1435@hades.eco.li> On Fri, Jul 02, 2004 at 04:33:23PM -0700, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Dan Kolb wrote: > > > I decided to power on my MicroVAX 3800, after it's been idling for a couple of > > years (unfortunately due to lack of time on my part), only to find that it's > > not booting properly. The LED display on the cover/patch panel sits saying 'F' > > (apparently "Waiting for CDOK"); nothing else happens. Anyone got any ideas as > > to what may be wrong, or if it's fixable? > > First of all, it's DCOK, not "CDOK". Second, the problem may not be in Oops. My bad. Well, bad of the website I got the info from :) > the CPU board, it may be the PSU. E.g., it's out of tolerance and does > not assert the DCOK signal. Follow Tony's advice: check the PSU voltages > and the state of the DCOK signal before randomly swapping parts (and > certainly before rushing out to eBay to buy a new KA655 board). Interestingly, having moved the CPU boards to the left-hand side of the chassis (it was originally on the right-hand side) allows the machine to start up about 10-20% of the time, whereas before it wasn't starting at all. Would each side of the backplane be connected to a separate power supply? Would it be at all possible to run the machine (BA213 chassis) with only one of the power supplies (I think it's likely that the right-hand supply is slightly dodgy)? Dan -- I am more bored than you could ever possibly be. Go back to work. From esharpe at uswest.net Sun Jul 4 11:21:42 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: Honeywell 201 Logic Training Manual References: Message-ID: <001e01c461e2$fe66ce30$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Fred, we can use any GE or Honeywell manuals here for the museum's collection. Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 4:26 PM Subject: FREE: Honeywell 201 Logic Training Manual > Hi all, > > As said.. this manual ia available. Its the 1965 Field Service > Training Manual for the Honeywell 201 Central Processor. > > Thanks, > > Fred > > > From esharpe at uswest.net Sun Jul 4 11:30:44 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: need 8 mhz vertra! References: <3.0.6.32.20040702144926.0092ede0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040704074401.008f7300@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <002b01c461e4$41008f50$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> pardon my bogus typing! a VECTRA it was a hp 286 box. there were many models made of this... there was the vectra, the vectra es 12 and es 8 and others...... We need the one that says Just Vectra on it. Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "ed sharpe" ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 4:44 AM Subject: Re: need 8 mhz vertra! > What's a Vertra? > > Joe > > > At 10:51 PM 7/3/04 -0700, you wrote: > >need 8 mhz vertra! > > > >Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC > > > >Please check our web site at > > http://www.smecc.org > >to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we > >buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. > > > >address: > > > > coury house / smecc > >5802 w palmaire ave > >glendale az 85301 > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Joe R." > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > >Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 11:49 AM > >Subject: Re: HP DOS computer selection advice sought > > > > > >> At 09:09 AM 7/2/04 -0500, you wrote: > >> >I have a large multi-tier printer stand on casters that I use for my HP > >> >logic analyzer setup. 1631D analyzer, 9122 dual floppy drive, 2225 > >printer, > >> >probe hangers, etc. It's nice to have on that stand because I can roll it > >> >around the work area from system to system easily. > >> > > >> >I would like to put a computer on that stand too, that has HP-IB > >interface > >> >(all the gear above is HP-IB). The primary purpose of the computer is to > >> >interface to the logic analyzer, but I will also use it for interfacing > >to > >> >my Data I/O programmer, various DOS programs like IC stat lookup, etc. > >> > > >> >My problem is I'm not that familiar with HP DOS machines. I have > >particular > >> >requirements for this and I'm not sure what model to look for. Perhaps > >those > >> >familiar with HP's DOS machine lineage can suggest a machine I should > >look > >> >for. Here's the criteria: > >> > > >> >1) It has to be an HP. My TI3100 would look out of place with all the HP > >> >gear on the rack :) > >> >2) It has to allow putting an 8 bit ISA HP-IB card in it (or dare I say > >> >already support HP-IB) > >> >3) It really needs 1mb of RAM for some of the programs I want to run on > >it. > >> >4) DOS version needs to be 5.0 or better, would be nice if I could use > >the > >> >free DR-DOS > >> >5) It would have to have an external serial port > >> >6) I would like to get it on the wireless network. I was thinking of > >using > >> >the zircom parallel port adapter I have, and then getting an ethernet to > >> >wireless bridge. Of course, I have to find DOS TCP/IP drivers for the > >> >zircom, if such a thing exists. I'm open to options here. > >> >7) Vertical space is a premium on the rack, so I would prefer something > >> >without a full-size monitor, preferrably an all-in-one unit rather than > >> >separate cpu, keyboard, monitor, etc. > >> >8) Would need at least 40mb hard disk. > >> >9) Need a somewhat standard size keyboard (this rules out my 200LX). > >> > > >> >So far from my looking around, the HP 110 seems very close to what I'd > >want. > >> >The small vertical height of the screen is a big plus, but, I really have > >to > >> >have 80x24. Plus the 110 seems to be stuck with 256k ram and only DOS > >2.11. > >> >I would LOVE to use my HP-85 for this, but alas, it isn't going to be > >> >running promlink anytime soon. Can anyone suggest a vintage PC machine > >for > >> >this purpose? > >> > > >> > >> > >> Let's see. #2 will require a PC clone and you can't add an ISA card to > >a > >> HP-110 so it's out. #6 rules out things like HP-85s and the like. I can't > >> think of any HP machine that has an intregrated display that also has ISA > >> slots. MY suggestion would be to use an HP Intregral PC! But no wireless > >> networking for that one uneless you can find something that works via the > >> seriel port. Since it's HP-UX you also can't use any programs written for > >> PCs. Another suggestion is a Compaq Portable-III or Portable 386 with the > >> ISA expansion pod on the back but that's not an HP product. The only HP > >> computer that comes close is one of the older Vectras but they use regular > >> CGA/EGA/VGA monitors. You could use one of those with a flat LCD monitor. > >I > >> think $HP $even $makes $them $now. I suppose something like the Omnibook > >> 430 that I just picked up would work if you put the wireless network card > >> and HP-IB in PCMCIA slots but PCMCIA HP_IB interfaces are probably > >> expensive. Have you seen an Omnibook 430? It looks just like a HP-200LX > >> but it's about twice as big so the keyboard and screen have a decent size. > >> > >> If you're interested in an old Vectra, I have one that I'm supposed to > >> pick up later today or tomorrow. It looks like it's in good condition but > >I > >> haven't checked it. They use regular PC type components and they're about > >> 13" square and about 7" tall. It's probably an old 286 12Mhz machine but > >> they work fine. That's what I'm using for my HP HyperViper setup. BTW I do > >> have the CMOS setup disks for them too. > >> > >> Joe > >> > > > > > > > From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Sun Jul 4 11:50:33 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: Motorola MVME131 Message-ID: Looking for docs on the above. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun Jul 4 12:02:15 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: KA655 problem In-Reply-To: <20040704160948.GA1435@hades.eco.li> References: <0407022333.AA16555@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <20040704160948.GA1435@hades.eco.li> Message-ID: <200407041202.15955.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Sunday 04 July 2004 11:09, Dan Kolb wrote: > On Fri, Jul 02, 2004 at 04:33:23PM -0700, Michael Sokolov wrote: > > the CPU board, it may be the PSU. E.g., it's out of tolerance and > > does not assert the DCOK signal. Follow Tony's advice: check the > > PSU voltages and the state of the DCOK signal before randomly > > swapping parts (and certainly before rushing out to eBay to buy a > > new KA655 board). > > Interestingly, having moved the CPU boards to the left-hand side of > the chassis (it was originally on the right-hand side) allows the > machine to start up about 10-20% of the time, whereas before it > wasn't starting at all. Would each side of the backplane be connected > to a separate power supply? Would it be at all possible to run the > machine (BA213 chassis) with only one of the power supplies (I think > it's likely that the right-hand supply is slightly dodgy)? You could remove one power supply and then either crimp together a splitter cable for one power supply, or just solder the connectors together on the backplane... Also, the power supplies, being switching supplies, need a minimum load. Do you have boards on both halves (left/right) of the backplane? DEC sold a "dummy load" board, which was a board with a bunch of resistors on it, in systems that were "lightly" configured (didn't use most or all of the left half of the backplane). I'd recommending taking out a voltmeter and seeing if the system voltages are "in tolerance" (within about 5% of their rating... 4.8-5.1V for 5V rail, 11.6-12.2V for the 12V rail, etc.) Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Sun Jul 4 11:37:39 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:07 2005 Subject: KA655 problem In-Reply-To: <20040704160948.GA1435@hades.eco.li> Message-ID: <000c01c461e5$3d87c6d0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > Interestingly, having moved the CPU boards to the left-hand > side of the chassis > (it was originally on the right-hand side) allows the machine > to start up about > 10-20% of the time, whereas before it wasn't starting at all. > Would each side of > the backplane be connected to a separate power supply? Would > it be at all possible > to run the machine (BA213 chassis) with only one of the power > supplies (I think > it's likely that the right-hand supply is slightly dodgy)? I don't have the IPBs in front of me but I do think that each half is normally powered by its own supply. There is some connection between the two halves, however, since if the LH PSU blows, the whole machine fails to start. Similarly, if you have insufficient load on the LH PSU it will not come up (SMPSU I presume) and that also stops the machine from working (hence the need for a load board in some configs). I don't think I have any schematics for this range of machines, but it sounds like you need to fix the dead PSU. The BA214 (or whatever the smaller cab config was) would almost certainly have been half the backplane of a BA213, so it might be possible to reconfigure the existing box to run with one PSU and half a backplane while you fix the broken PSU. Head on over to Manx and pull a few IPBs to see what you can do (if anything). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 4 14:36:36 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: VCF Gazette Volume 2 Issue 3 Message-ID: VCF Gazette Volume 2, Issue 3 A Newsletter for the Vintage Computer Festival July 4, 2004 We're busier than we've ever been here at the VCF, so this newsletter will be short... Vintage Computer Festival East 2.0 Vintage Computer Festival Europa 5.0 Wrap-Up VCF Creates PDP-1 Replica for National Science Museum of Japan Latest Additions to the VCF Archives Vintage Computer Festival East 2.0 ---------------------------------- The second Vintage Computer Festival East takes place on Friday, July 16th and Saturday, July 17th, at Burlington, Massachusetts, campus of Sun Microsystems. We are honored to have Sun Microsystems as the sponsor for VCF East! We've got an excellent line up of speakers and exhibits this time around, with nearly twice the number of exhibits of VCF East 1.0. Please note that attendees of VCF East 2.0 must register in advance. You may register here: http://www.vintage.org/2004/east/register.php For out of town guests, the VCF has arranged a hotel room block at a nearby Marriott (within walking distance to Sun's campus). Full details are available here: http://www.vintage.org/2004/east/lodging.php The VCF speaker schedule is as follows: Friday, July 16 Time Topic Speaker ------- ------------------------------------- ------------------- 10:00am Atari 7800 25th Anniversary C. Vendel/S. Golson 11:00am VCF Ramblings Sellam Ismail 12:00pm Preserving Computing's Past... Bob Supnik 1:00pm A Retrospective of Storage Technology Sun Microsystems Saturday, July 17 Time Topic Speaker ------- ------------------------------------- ------------------ 10:00am A Personal History of Computing Art Hill 11:00am Resurrecting an IBM 360/30 Lawrence Wilkinson 12:00pm PDAs 1973-1992 Evan Koblentz 1:00pm Personal Computing in the early 1970s Jon Titus More information on the VCF East 2.0 speakers can be found here: http://www.vintage.org/2004/east/speaker.php Buy, Sell and Trade at the VCF Marketplace As always, one of the most exciting aspects of the VCF is the Marketplace, where you can find a large and varied assortment of some of the most fantastical old computer thingies anywhere. Find that odd part you've been seeking out for your collection, then touch, smell, even taste it if you like, before haggling out a deal. There is simply no better place to buy and sell vintage computers than at the VCF Marketplace. Vendor booths are still available. For more information on selling at VCF East 2.0, please visit: http://www.vintage.org/2004/east/vendor.php Complete information about VCF East 2.0, including the speaker schedule and exhibit roster, as well as lodging information and driving directions, can be found on the VCF East 2.0 web pages: http://www.vintage.org/2004/east/ Vintage Computer Festival Europa 5.0 Wrap-Up -------------------------------------------- VCF Europa 5.0 was a smashing success! We had over 300 attendees and close to 40 exhibitors. Hans Franke served up another fine glass of VCF, German style. We'd hoped to have a photo gallery of VCF Europa ready by the time of this publishing but the last two months have been rather hectic for us here at VCF central. Read on below to find out why. In the meantime, the dates for VCF Europa 6.0 has already been set: April 30 through May 1, 2005. And of course, the location will be Muenchen (Munich), Germany, though the venue may change from its traditional location to a larger facility. We've added another European event to the VCF line-up: VCF Italia 1.0 will be inaugurated this September 4-5. More information will be posted shortly to the VCF website. We'll post our VCF Europa 5.0 photo gallery by the end of July, so stay tuned for that. VCF Creates PDP-1 Replica for National Science Museum of Japan -------------------------------------------------------------- The reason we've been so busy of late is because Sellam Ismail, the main guy behind the VCF, has been busy finishing up a replica of a PDP-1 that was commissioned for the National Science Museum of Japan. The NSM needed a PDP-1 for an upcoming exhibit they are unveiling on Saturday, July 16. They contacted the Computer History Museum, but they had none to loan out, so they were forwarded to the VCF since we have experience building quality replicas of vintage computers. The NSM wanted a functional replica, and so the VCF delivered. We fabricated a near exact replica of a PDP-1 CPU cabinet and CRT desk console. It features a functional front panel and a working CRT playing Spacewar! http://www.vintage.org/gallery.php?grouptag=PDP1REPLICA On the inside we have a PC running Linux with Bob Supnik's PDP-1 SIMH simulator providing the machine emulation and Phil Budne's graphics display extensions to allow for Spacewar! to play. The front panel is implemented with a custom-designed front panel controller (FPC) designed by Andre' LaMothe of Nurve Networks[1]. The FPC has 128 outputs (lights) and 64 inputs (switches) and connects to the PC's parallel port. Code was added to SIMH which sends the internal PDP-1 CPU machine registers (address bus, program counter, accumulator, etc.) to the FPC, which then populates the appropriate lamps on the front panel. The switch values are read by additional code which then populates internal data structures within SIMH to allow for user input from the front panel switches. The replica PDP-1 was crated and sent off to Tokyo on Friday, July 2. It'll go on display for three months beginning on July 16 at the National Science Museum in Tokyo. The website of the National Science Museum of Japan is here: http://www.kahaku.go.jp/english/ Want your own PDP-1 replica? The VCF will be making available for sale the Front Panel Controller and PDP-1 front panels. Heck, we'll even make you a complete replica. Please send inquiries to Sellam Ismail . Latest Additions to the VCF Archives ------------------------------------ This edition of the Latest Additions has a moral at the end, so pay attention. A couple weeks ago I was searching around in thrift stores in my local area for some classic Atari joysticks for a friend's project[1]. At one store I happened upon a nondescript electronic desk calculator. However, there was something subtle about it that caught my attention. I gave it a closer look: it was a Unicom 141P calculator. The label on the back indicated it was made in Japan. It was definitely a 1970s vintage. "Unicom" sounded familiar to me. I was trying to remember the name of the calculator company for which Intel initially designed the 4004 microprocessor (Busicom) but was drawing a blank. At any rate, the calculator had a $5 sticker on it, so I figured it was worth buying so I could research it later, and worst case I would have a nice 1970s desktop calculator to add to the collection. Well, imagine my surprise when I opened it up and found a 4004 inside along with all the Intel 4000 series support chips! Rick Bensene, one of the most prolific calculator collectors out there, provided me with this information: "Unicom was a company that was started up as a spinoff of IC maker American Microsystems (AMI). There's little out there about the history of the company in its early days, but it's possible that Unicom initially started out simply OEMing machines from Busicom, until they had developed their own chips. Busicom for a time had an exclusive on the 4004 as the result of their joint effort with Intel to develop a reconfigurable general purpose calculator chipset, which ended up morphing into a microprocessor. "I do know that Busicom did OEM their machines to a number of different marketers of early electronic calculators, and perhaps Unicom was one of them. Busicom's machine with the 4004 was the 141PF (they weren't shy about recycling model numbers, as the 141 was a lower-cost version of Busicom's first machine, the 162, which was indeed a discrete transistor machine). The 141PF was a printing only machine. Looking at patent information, the architecture of the design was such that it could be adapted (part of the whole idea that spurred the development of the 4004 in the first place) to use a display rather than a printer. "So, my guess (and it's just that at this point) is that the machine you have is an adaptation of the original 141PF design, done either by Busicom either on their own, or under contract to Unicom, which was sold under the Unicom brand name in North America. Later, AMI sold off the Unicom division to Rockwell, and for a while, Rockwell sold handheld calculators under this brand, then abandoned the Unicom brand and sold their machines (using their own chips) under the Rockwell brand, as well as through other OEMs." So the moral of the story is, don't judge a gift horse by its mouth :) Many 1970s era calculators have early microprocessors, so even if you don't find one with a 4004, it may end up containing an interesting microprocessor contemporaneous with the 4004, or even an interesting discrete design. But please don't go trashing old calculators just to rip the microprocessors out of them. For more great information on old calculators, visit what I consider to be the best calculator information site on the web, Rick Bensene's Old Calculator Web Museum: http://www.oldcalculatormuseum.com/ [1] Check out Andre' LaMothe's upcoming XGameStation: http://www.xgamestation.com That wraps it up for this issue of the VCF Gazette! Until next time... Best regards, Sellam Ismail Producer Vintage Computer Festival http://www.vintage.org/ The Vintage Computer Festival is a celebration of computers and their history. The VCF Gazette goes out to anyone who subscribed to the VCF mailing list, and is intended to keep those interested in the VCF informed of the latest VCF events and happenings. The VCF Gazette is guaranteed to be published in a somewhat irregular manner, though we will try to maintain a quarterly schedule. If you would like to be removed from the VCF mailing list, and therefore not receive any more issues of the VCF Gazette, visit the following web page: http://www.vintage.org/remove.php HAHA ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From esharpe at uswest.net Sun Jul 4 14:41:44 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: Honeywell manuals References: <20040704000332.1F3F63E13@spies.com> Message-ID: <009301c461fe$f026ab30$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> how about if Al copies them and then they come here to live! Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" To: Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 5:03 PM Subject: Honeywell manuals > > > FREE: Honeywell 201 Logic Training Manual > > > I'd like to add this to the material on bitsavers that I already have > on the H200 > > From jimmydevice at verizon.net Sun Jul 4 16:48:00 2004 From: jimmydevice at verizon.net (jimmydevice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: VCF/E In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40E87B10.20700@verizon.net> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >Hi all, > >Since I will be in the U.S. during VCF/E, I might as well try to >actually make it there. Is anyone driving there from the Silicon >Valley area? > >Cheers, > >Fred > > > > > I think you might be more impressed with the drive then the show. Do you realise how far that is? Jim Davis ;) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 4 14:02:42 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: HP HEDS-3000 WAND In-Reply-To: <30452.1088934195@www16.gmx.net> from "Jens-Christian Tipp" at Jul 4, 4 11:43:15 am Message-ID: > > Hi Tony, > > Some 20 years ago I have had to job with the WAND and > created lot of Barcode-Stickers for the Spareparts in > our company. Now I got again the Job to filter those > parts (Usable-Non usable), but somehow someone must have > trown away the software for the Wand. > > At my search in the Nert I found your remarks regarding > some application for an HX-20 (long time ago, study's) > > Question: Do you still pocess those software and are > you willing/able to share it with me? I don't think I ever had barcode software for the HX20. One of my HX20s came in a briefcase with a docking station for some kind of barcode reader, but I never got the reader or any software with it. The only experienvce I have of barcodes are the ones used with the HP41 calculator, and AFAIK those are a custom format. Sorry I can't be more help -tony From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jul 4 18:12:52 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: creating CDs for use with SGI systems In-Reply-To: Jules Richardson "creating CDs for use with SGI systems" (Jul 4, 12:35) References: <1088944546.14331.216.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <10407050012.ZM6094@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 4, 12:35, Jules Richardson wrote: > > I need to create a CD with files on for access by an SGI system. Of > course, the SGI uses a CDROM drive that uses 512 byte blocks. My desktop > PC's the only thing with a CD burner in it, which is naturally set to a > block size of 2048. > > >From the point of view of creating a CD, does this matter? Or is the > block size issue only to do with transferring data from the CD unit to > the host, and iso9660 is the same on both platforms? No, it doesn't matter. The block size is just a matter of how the data is transferred between host and drive, and cdrecord or whatever will write 2048-byte physical blocks no matter what. The drive that eventually reads the CD back will de-block them as required. It's a bit like CP/M, if you've come across CP/M's idea of 128-byte logical sectors mapped onto whatever physical sector size (commonly 256 or 512 bytes for 5.25" floppies) the sytem uses. But you should be making EFS CDs for IRIX ;-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Jul 4 19:22:57 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: HP firmware identification? Message-ID: <001e01c46226$39343aa0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I have some firmware chips in a 21MX/E that I can't seem to identify from my docs, and some I think I know what they are but not sure. 13307-80036, 13307-80037, 13307-80038 I think these are DMI 5090-0589, 5090-0590, 5090-0591 I think these are FPP 92067-80001, 92067-80002, 92067-80003 I think these are EMA (used by RTE?) 93585-80006, 93585-80007, 93585-80008 No clue, may be proprietary ProVOX? 92084-80004, 92084-80005, 92084-80006 No clue, may be proprietary ProVOX? 92084-80007, 92084-80008, 92084-80009 No clue, may be proprietary ProVOX? Can anyone help and confirm or deny any of this? Jay West From aek at spies.com Sun Jul 4 20:42:37 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: HP firmware identifications? Message-ID: <20040705014237.EB6663E42@spies.com> HP1000 E/F Firmware PN CKSUM =========== ===== 2113 Base Set 02113-80006 BCDB 02113-80007 8741 02113-80008 0889 2117 Base Set 02117-80016 C08F 02117-80017 84E4 02117-80018 2C45 E-FPP 5090-0589 0530 5090-0590 C6B6 5090-0591 DE78 E-DMI 13307-80036 EA76 13307-80033 (same cksum) 13307-80037 64CA 13307-80034 (same cksum) 13307-80038 D7B8 13307-80035 (same cksum) F-DMI/FFP 5180-0141 FCD1 5180-0142 8C42 5180-0143 E820 F-VIS 12824-80007 FF2C 12824-80008 F4B8 12825-80009 BF83 F-SIS 12823-80019 B7E9 12823-80020 7EAE 12823-80021 2CE9 SIGNAL/1000 92835-80001 1EEC 92835-80002 D419 92835-80003 C034 DS/1000 91740-80067 3F44 91740-80068 340A 91740-80069 FF62 RTE-IV EMA 92067-80001 F054 92067-80002 B744 92067-80003 AAAA RTE6/VM OS 92084-80001 E946 92084-80102 E116 92084-80002 E10E (earlier rev) 92084-80103 C670 92084-80003 C654 (earlier rev) RTE6/VM EMA/VMA 92084-80004 D166 92084-80005 8C02 92084-80006 B412 From anheier at owt.com Sun Jul 4 20:46:56 2004 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm and Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: More DEC boards FS Message-ID: <324F905D-CE25-11D8-8ACF-0050E4E0C16B@owt.com> These are the last of my stock of DEC boards. These boards are in reasonable shape, but perhaps some capacitors, etc will have to be replaced to get working. I want $15 each + shipping 4 each: M3105 DHU11-A ASYNC MUX DMA CNTL 1 each: M8750-CB MEMORY 1 each: M8750-CP MEMORY 1 each: M7485-YA M7485 W/ BLSTD RMS 4 LYR UDA50 1 each: M7903 BOARD DATA RK06 1 each + 1 damaged: M7819 8 LN DBL BUF ASYNC EIA DZ1 Thanks Norm From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Sun Jul 4 21:39:22 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: creating CDs for use with SGI systems References: <1088944546.14331.216.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <40E8BF5A.32031572@compsys.to> >Jules Richardson wrote: > Silly question, I know... > > I need to create a CD with files on for access by an SGI system. Of > course, the SGI uses a CDROM drive that uses 512 byte blocks. My desktop > PC's the only thing with a CD burner in it, which is naturally set to a > block size of 2048. > > From the point of view of creating a CD, does this matter? Or is the > block size issue only to do with transferring data from the CD unit to > the host, and iso9660 is the same on both platforms? > > It's one of those stupid questions that I really don't know the answer > to - I'm used to either just dealing with CDs on a PC, or using original > vendor media on systems which use 512 blocks (such as Sun and SGI) > > I've only got a couple of decent branded blank CDs left in the house, or > I'd just risk trashing one and find out for myself :-) Jerome Fine replies: NOT a silly question at all!! >From what I have found, probably almost ALL CD-R(W) media use a sector size of 2048 bytes. When a block size of 512 bytes is required, usually the CDROM drive (perhaps in conjunction with the controller or host adapter) manages to make the conversion. This is not a difficult as it sounds since ONLY read requests are used. My personal experience is that it is not trivial. While I understand that Zane Healy has managed this with a PDP-11 system and is able to use a CD in a suitable CDROM drive, I have not been successful myself. BUT, I have never been take concerned or motivated to sole the problem for a PDP-11 system. However, using an emulator under Windows 98 SE on a 750 MHz Pentium III system with a standard motherboard, I am successful in running old RT-11 software. To do so requires the conversion from the 2048 bytes sectors to 512 byte blocks which are totally transparent as far as a hard drive comparison is concerned. In fact, when I recently acquired a DVD reader and the newest version of E11, I am even able to read the first 64 blocks on the CD (16 CD sectors) and boot RT-11 from the CD during a test. The reason that I call it a test is because it is obviously much easier to just use the ISO file for the CD and run that file using the SIMH emulator. What I am trying to say is that it may be necessary to do something special, but the use of a CD when 512 byte blocks are required for use with software which does not understand 2048 byte sectors on a CD should not be impossible if you can find a CDROM drive which will take care of the problem for you. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sun Jul 4 22:19:55 2004 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: DEC 7000 (AXP) 4 CPU, 1GB, DRAM, SCSI for trade Message-ID: <40E8C8DB.6060305@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, got a nice DEC 7000 with 4 CPUs 1GB of memory. AFAIK it is the first Alpha model made. Same chassis as the VAX 7000. This one works beautifully and sounds really nice. I had OSF installed on it once (have the OSF CD with it, just no license key.) I can't keep it though, because now I have my VAX 6660 together and my last spot is gone. I would like to trade this one for a VAX 40000 in a pedestal. Don't you think that is a fair trade? Pictures: http://www.gusw.net/~schadow/dec7000.jpg http://www.gusw.net/~schadow/dec7000open.jpg This box is in Indianapolis, IN. If you come here you get to see my collection of VAX6460 with vector processors and an 11/780. You may even get a VAX6400 for free and another smaller alpha (DEC3000 system) as a thank you gift. This one is heavy. However, there are at least two ways to load it: either liftgate truck, or a u-haul low-floor truck or trailer. The low-floor trucks are really nice: cheap to rent and easy to load (we just lay the machine on its side.) regards, -Gunther From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sun Jul 4 23:18:40 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: Assorted on-topic stuff In-Reply-To: <200407040735.DAA17121@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200407040735.DAA17121@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <200407050432.AAA00448@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> A day or so ago, I wrote > I recently came into possession of a relatively large pile of > on-topic stuff, and have some of my own that I want to get rid of. followed by a list of stuff. I was surprised (and in most respects pleased) at the response. By the time I woke up and checked my mail, I had six replies, one of whom was local enough to pick things up in person, and interested in enough of the stuff to be willing to take it all; there was a seventh reply I discovered only a great deal later, being stopped for lack of reverse DNS, which (perhaps fortunately) would not have arrived early enough to make any difference even if the rDNS issue hadn't arisen. I was a bit surprised by the interest the Bytesaver generated; of the seven replies, six wanted it. :-) Anyway, it's all spoken for now. One response expressed surprise that I was willing to let any of it go. This really isn't all that hard to understand, once you learn a few things about me and look at it right. I am primarily a Unix hacker, and as such, anything that can't run something Unixy is significantly less interesting to me. I took the stuff when its previous owner was tossing it more to save it from being scrapped if I could than because I wanted it for myself (I knew classiccmpers would probably want much of it). Also, my free-space budget was overdrawn even before the pile of old stuff arrived; it then became _severely_ overdrawn, and getting rid of things became fairly critical. It's going to be good to get my living room back. :-) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From bmachacek at pcisys.net Mon Jul 5 00:02:10 2004 From: bmachacek at pcisys.net (Bill Machacek) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: ARCnet ROMs Message-ID: <001501c4624d$3e1f0280$0200000a@xeon> I just acquired a number of Arcnet Boot ROMs. I have no idea if these are of any value and/or interest to anyone here, but thought I'd post this information. Please let me know if you have any interest in any or all of these. Specifics are: "Arcnet, 120A, Netware, Boot ROM, S/N: EG 0021xx - 0029xx, V3.00", I have 9 of these chips. "Arcnet, 190ST/SBT, Netware, Boot ROM, S/N: EL 0033xx, V3.00", I have 4 of these chips. "Netware, Arcnet, 120A, Boot PROM, V2.1x", I have only one of these chips. If you like additional information, like the numbers on the bottom, just let me know. Thanks for your information and interest. Bill Machacek From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Jul 5 05:24:06 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: creating CDs for use with SGI systems In-Reply-To: <10407050012.ZM6094@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <1088944546.14331.216.camel@weka.localdomain> <10407050012.ZM6094@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <1089023046.15504.53.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-07-04 at 23:12, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jul 4, 12:35, Jules Richardson wrote: > > Or is the > > block size issue only to do with transferring data from the CD unit to > > the host, and iso9660 is the same on both platforms? > > No, it doesn't matter. The block size is just a matter of how the data > is transferred between host and drive, and cdrecord or whatever will > write 2048-byte physical blocks no matter what Eek - I had to resort to Win2k as cdrecord didn't like my SCSI burner - grrr! I got myself further confused as somebody offered me a SCSI burner the other day which also has a block size jumper on the back - hence I wasn't sure if there were special burners needed for 512 byte block CDs. > But you should be making EFS CDs for IRIX ;-) shush! :-) Actually I should get the machine on the LAN then it wouldn't matter... I'm drowing in a sea of different SCSI connectors at the moment - the Indigo has the 50 pin centronics style connector, the Indy has a HD50 connector, the desktop PC has the HD68 connector, then I have single external 5.25" boxes that have HD68 on them, single 5.25" boxes that have HD50 on them, and dual 5.25" boxes that have 50 pin centronics on them. Some of the HD68 boxes have 50 pin IDC internally, others have SCA... (and don't even get me started on 3.5" boxes) Ideally I'd like to get both my DAT drive and a CDROM capable of 512 byte blocks into a dual external case so I can easily shift them around between machines, whilst not wasting precious SCSI bus length. Trying to do that with the bits and the cables that I have available is making my brain hurt :-) And unless the Indigo's external bus is faulty, my 50-50 pin centronics cable has died - the Indigo recognises external devices hooked up via it but barfs when trying to access them at a reasonable speed. It's not a termination issue, unless there's a magic "terminate external bus" switch buried inside the Indigo somewhere :-) *sigh* cheers, Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Jul 5 06:38:19 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: R3K SGI Indigo & installing IRIX 5.3 Message-ID: <1089027499.15504.75.camel@weka.localdomain> Blah! OK, the Indigo doesn't like my old Apple SCSI CDROM drive, even though the Indy and my Sun Ultra 1 do... luckily I had a spare quad-speed drive which has a sector-size jumper on the back. (So it wasn't a bad SCSI cable or a problem with the Indigo's external SCSI connector as it turns out) Anyway, I'm just trying to get IRIX 5.3 from CD onto a disk in the Indigo (one which currently has a mangled copy of 5.3 on it). I've used the same CD to install 5.3 on the Indy previously - just not tried it with the Indigo... If I go view the PROM monitor and select "Install System Software", then use the CDROM as the source device, it copies the installation program to disk, says complete, but then dies with: "Unable to load dksc(0,1,1)unix.IP12: file not found" I seem to recall the Indy doing the same thing, which I think was a disk partition problem (as in that case I was installing onto a drive that had previously been in a PC) So, I restarted at this time went into the PROM monitor's command monitor and did: "boot -f dksc(0,6,8)sashARCS dksc(0,6,7)stand/fx.ARCS" ... which was what I used for the Indy to partition the drive. On the Indigo it just blows up with: 72912 NESTED EXCEPTION at pc: bfc11d90, first exception at bfc11d90 Any ideas what I'm doing wrong? Given that the Indigo's an R3K and the Indy is an R4K, do I need a different boot command to load the relevant R3K software? I know this Indigo works - but the release of 5.3 is a copied version that came with the Indy... maybe it's missing something I need, or maybe SGI did different 5.3 releases for R3K and R4K machines? cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Jul 5 07:25:54 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: R3K SGI Indigo & installing IRIX 5.3 In-Reply-To: <1089027499.15504.75.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1089027499.15504.75.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1089030354.15504.81.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-07-05 at 11:38, Jules Richardson wrote: > "boot -f dksc(0,6,8)sashARCS dksc(0,6,7)stand/fx.ARCS" ^ARCS^IP12 d'oh! I'm sure for the Indy though when I exited fx I could then go to the install system option and it worked ok. If I try this with the Indigo it still loads the installation program but then gives: "Unable to load dksc(0,1,1)unix.IP12: file not found" any ideas? I think I set the disk within fx as a usrrootdrive - which I believe is correct for IRIX 5.3? cheers Jules From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Mon Jul 5 09:15:43 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: R3K SGI Indigo & installing IRIX 5.3 In-Reply-To: <1089027499.15504.75.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1089027499.15504.75.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <40E9628F.50401@ntlworld.com> > I know this Indigo works - but the release of 5.3 is a copied version > that came with the Indy... maybe it's missing something I need, or maybe > SGI did different 5.3 releases for R3K and R4K machines? > > cheers > > Jules > > I think there's a few for indy only. If your indy is up and running type "versions -b eoe1". I can't remember if it has indy somewhere in the answer you have the wrong version. I think it gives to message on the original version which will boot the indigo. Dan From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Jul 5 09:34:00 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: HP hardware available and wanted list References: <008c01c45f9b$203aa3a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <40E49461.8010705@tiac.net> <00d001c45fce$0580b800$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <40E966D8.9040904@tiac.net> I do agree, the 21MX front panel is a little harder to use. But the 2100 is simply not HP's best effort in this area. For usability, the 2114 rules, for appearance, the 2116 should win, but it gets major points off for lacking a displayed Switch Register, a flaw fixed on the 2100. The 21MX front panel does not need toe Store button to be used once its in the Run mode, so the diagnostics should act exactly as they do on the 2100. The only time the 'extra' step is needed for the 21MX's is during the bootstrap process, or when you have no boot device whatsoever. Its a very forgivable fault in practical use. Jay West wrote: >You're comparing a 2100 panel to a 2114/2116. I agree with you there. I was >comparing the usability of the 2100 panel vs. the 21MX panel. I hate having >to hit "store" each time. On the 21MX, you have to hit store when changing a >register value. On the 2100, just select a different register, or hit INC M, >or hit run, and the modifications are automatically stored. To get the old >contents back, just press the register key again. Makes things much easier >for one who works on the front panel a lot. > >And the front panel is used a LOT for a lot of HP diagnostics, regardless of >loader roms being present or not. Just my own personal opinion :) > >Jay >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bob Shannon" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 5:46 PM >Subject: Re: HP hardware available and wanted list > > >>Jay West wrote: >> >>>PS - Bob, now that I've been using the 21MX front panel for a while, I >>> >gotta > >>>tell ya, I prefer using the 2100 front panel. What's this "store" button >>>crap? *GRIN* >>> >>The 2100 panel is total junk! Try a 2114 my friend, there is nothing >>that compares with HP's touch >>sensitive incandescent backlit sensors, and the hacked relay used to >>make the 'click' as if there was >>a mechanical component to the capacitive switch. >> >>But for appearance, the 2116 rules. >> >>Remember 21MX's use boot roms, the front panel is very rarely used. It >>was also HP's last front panel. >> >> > > From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Jul 5 09:43:09 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: HP DOS computer selection advice sought References: <007901c4603e$308248a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <40E968FD.6070608@tiac.net> An HP21MX running HP-IPL/OS with the HPIB extensions loaded, using a 59310B interface board. This allows rapid, interactive development of HPIB command sequences with grreater ease than using RTE-IVB or RTE-6VM. Jay West wrote: >I have a large multi-tier printer stand on casters that I use for my HP >logic analyzer setup. 1631D analyzer, 9122 dual floppy drive, 2225 printer, >probe hangers, etc. It's nice to have on that stand because I can roll it >around the work area from system to system easily. > >I would like to put a computer on that stand too, that has HP-IB interface >(all the gear above is HP-IB). The primary purpose of the computer is to >interface to the logic analyzer, but I will also use it for interfacing to >my Data I/O programmer, various DOS programs like IC stat lookup, etc. > >My problem is I'm not that familiar with HP DOS machines. I have particular >requirements for this and I'm not sure what model to look for. Perhaps those >familiar with HP's DOS machine lineage can suggest a machine I should look >for. Here's the criteria: > >1) It has to be an HP. My TI3100 would look out of place with all the HP >gear on the rack :) >2) It has to allow putting an 8 bit ISA HP-IB card in it (or dare I say >already support HP-IB) >3) It really needs 1mb of RAM for some of the programs I want to run on it. >4) DOS version needs to be 5.0 or better, would be nice if I could use the >free DR-DOS >5) It would have to have an external serial port >6) I would like to get it on the wireless network. I was thinking of using >the zircom parallel port adapter I have, and then getting an ethernet to >wireless bridge. Of course, I have to find DOS TCP/IP drivers for the >zircom, if such a thing exists. I'm open to options here. >7) Vertical space is a premium on the rack, so I would prefer something >without a full-size monitor, preferrably an all-in-one unit rather than >separate cpu, keyboard, monitor, etc. >8) Would need at least 40mb hard disk. >9) Need a somewhat standard size keyboard (this rules out my 200LX). > >So far from my looking around, the HP 110 seems very close to what I'd want. >The small vertical height of the screen is a big plus, but, I really have to >have 80x24. Plus the 110 seems to be stuck with 256k ram and only DOS 2.11. >I would LOVE to use my HP-85 for this, but alas, it isn't going to be >running promlink anytime soon. Can anyone suggest a vintage PC machine for >this purpose? > >Thanks! > >Jay West > > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From kenziem at sympatico.ca Mon Jul 5 10:55:29 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: Failed posts was: Assorted on-topic stuff In-Reply-To: <200407050432.AAA00448@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200407040735.DAA17121@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <200407050432.AAA00448@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <200407051155.29375.kenziem@sympatico.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 This is the second post that has failed: Mail System Error - Returned Mail From: Mail Administrator Date: Today 11:43:09 This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason: Your message was not delivered because the destination computer was not reachable within the allowed queue period. The amount of time a message is queued before it is returned depends on local configura- tion parameters. Most likely there is a network problem that prevented delivery, but it is also possible that the computer is turned off, or does not have a mail system running right now. Your message was not delivered within 1 days. Host rodents.montreal.qc.ca is not responding. The following recipients did not receive this message: - -- Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA6XnxLPrIaE/xBZARAqG7AKDAJ8wfB9+YEixJ8fi4j0goNbWetQCguJtj 5QxXKU2RoBOw2KCZtwKi9cM= =rkgX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From vax3900 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 5 11:26:11 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: DEC 7000 (AXP) 4 CPU, 1GB, DRAM, SCSI for trade In-Reply-To: <40E8C8DB.6060305@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <20040705162611.84544.qmail@web51803.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gunther Schadow wrote: > Hi, got a nice DEC 7000 with 4 CPUs 1GB of memory. > AFAIK it is > the first Alpha model made. Same chassis as the VAX > 7000. > > This one works beautifully and sounds really nice. I > had > OSF installed on it once (have the OSF CD with it, > just > no license key.) I can't keep it though, because now > I have > my VAX 6660 together and my last spot is gone. > > I would like to trade this one for a VAX 40000 in a > pedestal. > Don't you think that is a fair trade? > > Pictures: > > http://www.gusw.net/~schadow/dec7000.jpg > http://www.gusw.net/~schadow/dec7000open.jpg > > This box is in Indianapolis, IN. If you come here > you get to see > my collection of VAX6460 with vector processors and I heard that you can have at most two CPUs if vector processors are installed. > an 11/780. > You may even get a VAX6400 for free and another > smaller alpha > (DEC3000 system) as a thank you gift. > > This one is heavy. However, there are at least two > ways to load > it: either liftgate truck, or a u-haul low-floor > truck or > trailer. The low-floor trucks are really nice: cheap > to rent > and easy to load (we just lay the machine on its > side.) > > regards, > -Gunther > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jul 5 13:25:37 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: R3K SGI Indigo & installing IRIX 5.3 In-Reply-To: Jules Richardson "R3K SGI Indigo & installing IRIX 5.3" (Jul 5, 11:38) References: <1089027499.15504.75.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <10407051925.ZM6756@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 5, 11:38, Jules Richardson wrote: > > Blah! OK, the Indigo doesn't like my old Apple SCSI CDROM drive, even > though the Indy and my Sun Ultra 1 do... luckily I had a spare > quad-speed drive which has a sector-size jumper on the back. (So it > wasn't a bad SCSI cable or a problem with the Indigo's external SCSI > connector as it turns out) Probably the drive responds correctly to the command to set the blocksize. The Indy and later machines, and most not-too-old Suns can do that from the boot PROM, but an Indigo can't (nor can my Sparcstation 1). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jul 5 13:46:17 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: R3K SGI Indigo & installing IRIX 5.3 In-Reply-To: Jules Richardson "Re: R3K SGI Indigo & installing IRIX 5.3" (Jul 5, 12:25) References: <1089027499.15504.75.camel@weka.localdomain> <1089030354.15504.81.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <10407051946.ZM6807@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 5, 12:25, Jules Richardson wrote: > I'm sure for the Indy though when I exited fx I could then go to the > install system option and it worked ok. If I try this with the Indigo it > still loads the installation program but then gives: > > "Unable to load dksc(0,1,1)unix.IP12: file not found" > > any ideas? I think I set the disk within fx as a usrrootdrive - which I > believe is correct for IRIX 5.3? dksc(0,1,1) is normally the swap partition, and that's where the installation tools put the miniroot during installation. Assuming you've done the right things with fx, you should have a small(ish) EFS root partition as partition 0, 1 is swap, IIRC 7 is the usr partition, 8 is the volume header, and 10 is the whole disk. My guess is that when you booted the CD, you used one of the few that has no Indigo (IP12) standalone unix on it. The first release of 5.3 did have it, the next one didn't (by mistake), and AFAIK all the subsequent ones did. I guess the number on your CD is 812-0336-001. The first 5.3 CD was 812-0119-006 and that does work, and so do (IIRC, though it's a long time since I did a clean install on an Indigo) 812-0336-002 et seq. Last Indigo install I did, I used 812-0336-004, but I might have booted it off something older. Don't try it with an XFS-capable one, though. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jul 5 15:55:10 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: R3K SGI Indigo & installing IRIX 5.3 In-Reply-To: Pete Turnbull "Re: R3K SGI Indigo & installing IRIX 5.3" (Jul 5, 19:46) References: <1089027499.15504.75.camel@weka.localdomain> <1089030354.15504.81.camel@weka.localdomain> <10407051946.ZM6807@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <10407052155.ZM7079@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 5, 19:46, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jul 5, 12:25, Jules Richardson wrote: > > "Unable to load dksc(0,1,1)unix.IP12: file not found" > > > > any ideas? I think I set the disk within fx as a usrrootdrive - > > which I believe is correct for IRIX 5.3? It was once common practice to keep /usr on a separate partition, particularly if you had small (200MB) drives, in which case most of the root drive would be root and swap, with /usr mounted later. If you want to prevent a user filling his space so that there's no room left in /tmp or /var/tmp either, it might still be a good idea but otherwise multiple partitions usually just mean that at some future date there's enough space on the physical drive for , except it's split betwwen several partitions and therefore unusable[1] :-) > Last Indigo install I did, I used 812-0336-004, but I might have > booted it off something older. Don't try it with an XFS-capable one, > though. I think I've just found the one I booted it off. It's an EFS CD I burned a long time ago; if you're still stuck I can upload the 28MB volume header tomorrow[2] and you can burn that onto a CD-R. You can boot a CD that only has a vh. I discovered that the first time I burned an EFS CD, which is normally built in two files -- the volume header (which includes the sgilabel, partition table, and things in mr or sa), and "the rest". Unfortunately instead of cat'ing the two files to cdrecord, I told cdrecord to write the two files on its command line, and ended up with two data tracks instead of one. [1] As I discovered last time I built a complete inst-able perl under IRIX 5.3. [2] 28MB is a bit much for my ISDN line this evening. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Mon Jul 5 21:30:55 2004 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: DEC 7000 (AXP) 4 CPU, 1GB, DRAM, SCSI for trade In-Reply-To: <20040705162611.84544.qmail@web51803.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040705162611.84544.qmail@web51803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40EA0EDF.50508@aurora.regenstrief.org> SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: >>my collection of VAX6460 with vector processors and > > I heard that you can have at most two CPUs if vector > processors are installed. You can have 4 CPUs + 2 vectors. That's the configuration in which I am running it. Actually, I am still missing one of those 80 pin small pitch ribbon cables, so, in actuallity mine is now 4 (or 5?) CPU + 1 vector. This configuration definitely runs. -Gunther From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon Jul 5 23:45:46 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: Free MVME-147SA for pick-up in San Francisco In-Reply-To: <2C3C5638-CEFE-11D8-A5DE-000A957650EC@wasabisystems.com> References: <2C3C5638-CEFE-11D8-A5DE-000A957650EC@wasabisystems.com> Message-ID: <200407060451.AAA19605@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> On another list I'm on (one of the NetBSD lists), I got the message quoted below, indicating that a bunch of stuff is looking for help escaping the crusher in San Francisco. After exchanging email with its author, I got approval to forward it over here. Please respond directly to Jason (address in the Cc: here, or the quoted headers below); I cannot do anything useful with responses except forward them thataway myself. Note there's a deadline less than two weeks off. (The "if you write a driver" stuff probably actually means "...a NetBSD driver"; given the original context - NetBSD lists - this could reasonably be assumed there, but classiccmp is a bit more wide-ranging in such regards.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) > Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-64--891142980" > Message-Id: <2C3C5638-CEFE-11D8-A5DE-000A957650EC@wasabisystems.com> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Cc: port-m68k@NetBSD.org > From: Jason Thorpe > Subject: Free MVME-147SA for pick-up in San Francisco > Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 20:40:06 -0700 > To: port-mvme68k@NetBSD.org > X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.0 (v30, 10.3) > X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) > Precedence: list > > > --Apple-Mail-64--891142980 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > Folks... > > I have an MVME-147SA system available for free for pick-up in San > Francisco. This system was working and running NetBSD/mvme68k in a > diskless configuration the last time I turned it on (about 6 years > ago). The system board is installed in a Motorola VME card cage with a > transition module on the back (providing serial and Ethernet) and 2 > removable SCSI disk carriers. > > There are some extra goodies included with this system, so pay close > attention: > > - Ciprico RF3400 disk controller. I believe this is an ESDI > controller. I do NOT have programming info for this controller. I do, > however, have a programming manual for a Ciprico RF3510 SCSI > controller, which I will include (possibly useless, but what the heck). > > - Ciprico TM3000 9-track tape controller. I have the programming > manual for this. It works with any Pertec-compatible 9-track tape > drive. > > ...here's the gem: > > - Pertec "portable" 9-track tape drive. I don't know the specific > model number -- it's hidden somewhere under the plastic housing, no > doubt. I *believe* this drive is capable of reading the 3 common > 9-track tape densities (though to be honest, I can't even remember what > those are anymore). Here are some photos: > > http://www.shagadelic.org/photos/pertec1.jpg > http://www.shagadelic.org/photos/pertec2.jpg > > ...and here's the reason I have the Pertec in the first place: > > - UNIX 32V Time-Sharing System, Version 1.0 on 800bpi 9-track tape. I > don't know if this tape is still readable, but I have kept it hidden > away in a box, protected from heat, cold, and light for about 10 years > now. Here are some photos of the tape: > > http://www.shagadelic.org/photos/32v-tape1.jpg > http://www.shagadelic.org/photos/32v-tape2.jpg > > Now, for the terms and conditions: > > - I will NOT ship this stuff. The tape drive is especially heavy (if I > had to guess, I'd say it's 200lbs). > > - If you take all the pieces, AND you write a complete driver for the > TM3000, I will buy you a suitable quantity (e.g. 12-pack of a micro, > half-dozen if you want some Belgian corked bottles) of quality beer. > If you also manage to read the contents of the 32V tape, I will also > buy you a nice bottle (or two) of wine. > > - There is a dead line. This stuff is going to the crusher to have the > metals reclaimed on July 17. > > - If you don't have a car large enough to haul this stuff away, I might > be able to deliver it to a destination in the San Francisco Bay Area, > if I can arrange help loading the tape drive into my VW Bus (yes, it > really is that heavy). > > I would really prefer NOT to have to crush the MVME-147 - it still > works, and is a fine little NetBSD system. But I need it out of my > garage so I can make progress on a home improvement project. So, > someone please come and rescue it. > > I'll probably not throw away the 32V tape whatever happens to the > stuff. But without the tape drive, the tape is pretty useless, and > there aren't too many 9-track tape drives around anymore. So here's > your chance to grab a little bit of computing history... don't miss > out! > > -- Jason R. Thorpe > > --Apple-Mail-64--891142980 > content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; > name=PGP.sig > content-description: This is a digitally signed message part > content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig > content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (Darwin) > > iD8DBQFA6h8WOpVKkaBm8XkRAsCvAKDHr44N/0rsbtttJTb3JvjY1N0B8gCfT2uj > RjFXRTZDO+syLKnT8SVEsrA= > =2g6s > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > --Apple-Mail-64--891142980-- From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue Jul 6 09:40:27 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: New acquisition, cables needed. Message-ID: <200407060940.27510.pat@computer-refuge.org> So I got the VAX 4000/300, R400X, and TU-81+ that was offered a week ago on the list... it's in excellent shape, I think there was only one scratch among all three pieces. Now, I got the machines, but no cables with them. I need the cables that go from a KLESI card to the TU-81 (DD50M->DD50F), and the DSSI cables to go from the CPU cabinet to the R400X (female HD50 to female HD50.. aka SCSI-2 connector). I'm considering the possibility of making my own cable for the TU-81 (no one seems to sell cheap M->F DD50 cables), but it looks like it'll either be hard or quite expensive to get the DSSI cables new. So does anyone have some DSSI & LESI cables (with the proper connectors for my use) available for trade or sale at a reasonable price? Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From allain at panix.com Tue Jul 6 09:52:51 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: New acquisition, cables needed. References: <200407060940.27510.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <003e01c46368$e9c70760$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > it looks like it'll either be hard or quite expensive to > get the DSSI cables new. I was able to get such a DSSI cable for less than $25, delivered, about two years ago. Of course, if and when a supplier decides that a product has reached end-of-life, anything goes, and it it is two years later. It looks like I will have to dig up the paperwork for that order. John A. From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Jul 6 10:37:05 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: PDP OS Boot Sequence: WAS Re: RK05/RL02 Boot Sequence References: <20040701084410.D4FA7790052@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> <16612.6170.552500.656950@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <200407022101.RAA8716454@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <16618.50977.756979.938293@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Megan" == Megan writes: >> Any ideas as to where can I get more details on the various OSes >> boot sequence on the PDP11? >> >> Should have details like what disk block goes to which core >> address, how to find/load/jump to the kernel..etc. Megan> Typically, for the -11's, the first block (block 0) of the Megan> device is loaded at address 0. The DEC bootblock standard Megan> calls for the first word to be a 5 (reset) and the second to Megan> be a branch to the rest of the code (so that locations 4/6 and Megan> 10/12 at a minimum are free for non-existent memory and Megan> illegal instruction traps). That doesn't match what I learned (or what's in RSTS 10.1). The reset in location 0 was an old convention. But when a real boot block standard appeared, it said that 0 had to be a NOP, and 2 a branch to the setup code. Also, there had to be a "Szeto ID area" just before the branch target. As a special case, PRO boot devices must have a HALT (0) in word 0 -- obviously the ROM boot transfers control to 2 and not 0 as on other PDP11s. paul From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Jul 6 11:15:41 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040701070445.0091ce90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040706120114.03b83090@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Tony Duell may have mentioned these words: > > went out. After I pried myself off the ceiling I went after the so and so > > electrician that had told me that the power was off. He merely said "let > > that be a lesson, allways check the breakers yourself". I've never > > frogotten that! > >If he did this as a joke, or to teach you a lesson, then it's not funny, >and that idiot should be LARTed before he kills somebody. If he hasn't yet... :-/ > The mains >(certainly not 240V mains, but 110V can be lethal too) is not a suitable >subject for practical jokes. > >On the other hand I do agree that you should always check the power is >turned off yourself. If I was working with _anyone_ else I'd always >check. And while I'd never say I'd turned the power off if I hadn't, I'd >expect you to check. I certainly wouldn't be offended if you did. Nor would I... in fact, even a simple thing like "locking the store at nite" is triple- and quadruple-checked each nite, and I've been known to get offended when someone *doesn't* double-check my work. ;-) Now here's *my* brainfart for the week: My RadioShack multimeter (computerized mongothingy with RS-232 & everything) decided it didn't want to measure voltage anymore. It did everything else fine[1] so I decided I was gonna have a hand at tearing the thing apart to see what the heck is going on. (It's probably one of three things I own that I've not yet taken apart yet.) So I took it *all* the way apart. Every screw in it was out, things in 20 pieces, didn't bother to mark the alignment of the selector wheel internally, so I had to put it back together twice to get that mapped out where it should be, finally got it realigned & back together, went to test it, and it still didn't work. So, then I think: Waitaminit, dumbass! That outlet that the wallwart is plugged into is a bit flakey, maybe there's no voltage to measure! So I grab a standard alkaline cell, and yea, I get 1.5 volts. So I test a *known working* 12v wallwart - still nothing. Odd... then I say to myself... Self: When's the last time you changed the battery in this darned thing??? I replaced the 9v battery, and everything worked fine![2] Did I feel stupid? Yea... but I got over it quickly, as I was happy it was working again -- and now I know what the innards of the thing look like, in case the next time the problems not so simple... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger [1] including measuring resistance, which is usually the first thing to go on a low battery condition... [2] And Tony says you can never fix anything right by just partswapping... ;^> -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | JC: "Like those people in Celeronville!" sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Me: "Don't you mean Silicon Valley???" zmerch@30below.com | JC: "Yea, that's the place!" | JC == Jeremy Christian From waisun.chia at hp.com Mon Jul 5 09:01:47 2004 From: waisun.chia at hp.com (Wai-Sun Chia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: DEC Backplane (Was: Re: XTerms + DEC stuff + misc available (Cambridge, UK)) In-Reply-To: <20040703011203.GA10063@bos7.spole.gov> References: <1088677561.4325.52.camel@weka.localdomain> <20040702011113.A13933@bos6.spole.gov> <1088762252.5525.42.camel@weka.localdomain> <20040703011203.GA10063@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <40E95F4B.7050500@hp.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Fri, Jul 02, 2004 at 09:57:33AM +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > >>Looks to be DDIIPK, part number 70-11523. > > > That would be DD11PK... it's a CPU backplane for an 11/34. Also a CPU backplane for a 11/04. /wai-sun From dj.taylor at starpower.net Mon Jul 5 09:56:55 2004 From: dj.taylor at starpower.net (Douglas Taylor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: Emulex TC02 and Qualstar Tape Drive Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.0.20040705105110.01ae9518@pop.starpower.net> This is my latest project. I have an Emulex TC02 that I want to use with a pertec formatted Qualstar tape drive, model 1260. The TC02 is plugged into a Vax 4000/400, hobbyist openvms version 7.2. It is curious but when I start the Vax it does not see the TC02, this is at the console prompt stage, >>>> show dev does not list the tape controller, but >>>> show qbus lists it as a tsv05. Is this correct? Anyway when I boot the Vax VMS does list an MSA0: drive but it is not online or available, just what does this mean? I also have a Dilog DQ3153, but no cables to attach the drive. Anyone have success with hooking a Qualstar to a Vax or PDP? Doug From enigma at mail.lipsia.de Mon Jul 5 16:10:04 2004 From: enigma at mail.lipsia.de (Michael Huth) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: Need Help with an HP 7958B HDD drive Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040705230524.01d9a868@mail.lipsia.de> Hello, I have read some of your pstings at classiccmp.org. I got a HP 7958B drive of the trash (still working) and would like to get it running on an IEEE488 Interface. You wrote you got it so far to read/write sector this would help me alot. Also an interesting command would be to park the head before switching off. Maybe you know where to get some resources or you have something yourself. Thanks in advance, Michael From emxlists at tstf.net Tue Jul 6 11:28:38 2004 From: emxlists at tstf.net (emx) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: IBM 5110 APL ROS Message-ID: <838042345.20040706232838@tstf.net> I am looking for the APL ROS for a IBM 5110 Does anyone knows if I stand any chance to find such thing? From teamcorona at hotmail.com Tue Jul 6 07:05:50 2004 From: teamcorona at hotmail.com (Corona corona) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: Meetpods voor PM3551A Message-ID: Wellicht een beetje laat, maar ik heb hier nog van die meetpods liggen. Ook een manual is aanwezig. MVG, Cor _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From hansp at citem.org Tue Jul 6 11:52:25 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: IBM 5110 APL ROS In-Reply-To: <838042345.20040706232838@tstf.net> References: <838042345.20040706232838@tstf.net> Message-ID: <40EAD8C9.1030704@citem.org> emx wrote: > I am looking for the APL ROS for a IBM 5110 > > Does anyone knows if I stand any chance to find such thing? Why do you need it? We found that our APL only machine included the BASIC implementation, we needed only to install the language selection switch on the front panel. I would be very interested in knowing if the same holds true for the BASIC only machine. -- HansP From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 6 11:51:22 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: TI calculator repair anyone? In-Reply-To: <40DCB080.4030001@gmx.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jun 2004, Gerold Pauler wrote: > I have some bad old copies of the reverse engineered schematics > for the ti58 and some bad hand written schematics for the ti59 > magnet card reader. I also have a handwritten german translation > of a TI report "External Communications for the SR-52/56 (TI-58/59) > Calculators, Texas Instruments Incoporated, Calculator Products > Division, Dallas Texas, Sept. 27, 1976) > > If you don't mind to ruin your eyes and are keen enough to retranslate > it to english I will be able to scan them. It would have been more helpful if you had replied to the original sender (which Tony did not, and here you are replying to Tony). The original inquiree was JWLane43@aol.com, who has been cc'd on this message. > Tony Duell wrote: > > >>I would be very grateful if you could help me. Do you know of any company or > >>individual that repairs old calculators. I have two Texas TI-58 Programmable > > > > > > For reference I do old HP calculators (desktops and handelds from the > > 9100 to the 71B..) > > > > I have a TI58 amd TI59 on the to-be-hacked pile, but I am not going to be > > getting round to them anytime soon, alas. > > > > -tony > > -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From kth at srv.net Tue Jul 6 12:30:16 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: Emulex TC02 and Qualstar Tape Drive In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.0.20040705105110.01ae9518@pop.starpower.net> References: <6.0.1.1.0.20040705105110.01ae9518@pop.starpower.net> Message-ID: <40EAE1A8.6030108@srv.net> Douglas Taylor wrote: > This is my latest project. I have an Emulex TC02 that I want to use > with a pertec formatted Qualstar tape drive, model 1260. > > The TC02 is plugged into a Vax 4000/400, hobbyist openvms version > 7.2. It is curious but when I start the Vax it does not see the TC02, > this is at the console prompt stage, >>>> show dev does not list the > tape controller, but >>>> show qbus lists it as a tsv05. Is this > correct? Sounds like it can see the controller, but not the tape drive. Check the cabling between the controller and the drive (make sure the cables arent upside down or something stupid like that), and make sure the drive has power. > > Anyway when I boot the Vax VMS does list an MSA0: drive but it is not > online or available, just what does this mean? > > I also have a Dilog DQ3153, but no cables to attach the drive. > > Anyone have success with hooking a Qualstar to a Vax or PDP? > > Doug > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 6 15:21:46 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: I'm so stupid... Was: Head Cleaners In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040706120114.03b83090@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Jul 6, 4 12:15:41 pm Message-ID: > My RadioShack multimeter (computerized mongothingy with RS-232 & > everything) decided it didn't want to measure voltage anymore. It did > everything else fine[1] so I decided I was gonna have a hand at tearing the > thing apart to see what the heck is going on. (It's probably one of three > things I own that I've not yet taken apart yet.) So I took it *all* the way Odd... I dismantled my Fluke 85 before I bought it (I got it second-hand, with some display segments dim, and I wanted to check if the problem was just bad contacts at the zebra-strip. It was ;-)) And I pulled the case on my Logicdart the day I got it (anyone else think the PCB in this instrument should be called a 'dartboard'???) > > So, then I think: Waitaminit, dumbass! That outlet that the wallwart is > plugged into is a bit flakey, maybe there's no voltage to measure! So I A friend of mine bought a Fluke because the swtich on his old cheapo-meter had gone flakey. It told him that a socket outlet he was working on was dead when in fact it was still live (UK mains, 240V). After picking himself up from the other side of the room, he bought a Fluke... > grab a standard alkaline cell, and yea, I get 1.5 volts. So I test a *known > working* 12v wallwart - still nothing. Odd... then I say to myself... > > Self: When's the last time you changed the battery in this darned thing??? > > I replaced the 9v battery, and everything worked fine![2] > > Did I feel stupid? Yea... but I got over it quickly, as I was happy it was > working again -- and now I know what the innards of the thing look like, in > case the next time the problems not so simple... > > Laterz, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > > [1] including measuring resistance, which is usually the first thing to go > on a low battery condition... > > [2] And Tony says you can never fix anything right by just partswapping... ;^> Batteries may well be an exception to that, but actually, I always test them _on load_ when I have problemes. And before you ask 'how do you check the battery that powers the votlmeter', I have to admit to owning many, many, voltmeters... -tony From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Tue Jul 6 15:54:05 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: cable lacing... In-Reply-To: <6132036.1088808641799.JavaMail.root@bigbird.psp.pas.earthlink.net> References: <6132036.1088808641799.JavaMail.root@bigbird.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <9E3A582A-CF8E-11D8-B112-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> There was some there about harness boards. Once upon a time I worked for CALMA in the subassembly area. Before we did all the wiring directly on the chassis, with wires and ti-wraps. Then they came out with a harness board for the same item. They had the worker run wires in some random order, cutting and wrapping each end. I showed them how to wrap the harness board more quickly by running one color wire from start to finish and cutting it where components would mount, saved wire too. On Jul 2, 2004, at 3:50 PM, Steve Thatcher wrote: > very cool! Thanks Gene > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gene Buckle > Sent: Jul 2, 2004 4:25 PM > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Subject: cable lacing... > > > There was some discussion not too long ago about cable lacing and I > recently found a site some of you might be interested in: > > http://www.dairiki.org/hammond/cable-lacing-howto/ > > g. > > > > From aek at spies.com Tue Jul 6 16:26:18 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: Silicon Gulch Gazettes on line Message-ID: <20040706212618.652E33C9C@spies.com> I just finished scanning the last of Jim Warren's Silicon Gulch Gazette, which was the newsletter for the West Coast Computer Faires www.bitsavers.org/pdf/computerFaire/SiliconGulchGazette From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Tue Jul 6 17:56:58 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: HP & sgi stuff on eBay UK Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.0.20040706235340.03f5f4f0@albert> spotted some "buy it or it's scrapped" listings for some old kit.... Collection only from Maidenhead, Berks, UK. SGI Server anyone? http://cgi6.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=honkajou From allain at panix.com Tue Jul 6 18:13:46 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: Emulex TC02 and Qualstar Tape Drive References: <6.0.1.1.0.20040705105110.01ae9518@pop.starpower.net> Message-ID: <001501c463ae$e3f59b80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > MSA0: drive but it is not online or available, just what does this mean? Frequently with a tapedrive offline means only that a switch need be pushed on it's frontpanel, often depending on a tape load before it. Trivial to us oldtimers, but maybe not to newcomers. John A. From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Tue Jul 6 18:24:38 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: more old kit spotted eBay UK Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.0.20040706235745.03f5f780@albert> Some of the more unusual (for the UK at least) items spotted on a browse tonight... (I have no connection with sellers, etc etc) Looks like an original IBM XT and accessories!! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=162&item=5107012017&rd=1 How about a Brunsviga 13RK Calculating Machine (mechanical!) http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=162&item=6106251772&rd=1 Tandy CoCo anyone? UK Spec, Boxed, software &etc http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=162&item=5106458667&rd=1 Apple II Europlus http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=162&item=5106489135&rd=1 SGI ONYX (and promise of others available) http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=162&item=5106705424&rd=1 VT420 (and promise of others available) http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=162&item=5107180686&rd=1 Boxed VIC-20 with floppy drive http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=162&item=5106926463&rd=1 From pat at computer-refuge.org Wed Jul 7 00:04:05 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: Wanted: KLESI-UA Message-ID: <200407070004.05649.pat@computer-refuge.org> So, now that I discover I had a TU80, not TU81 controller in my 11/750, I'm looking for a KLESI Unibus card, aka M8739. If anyone has one, I'd be willing to offer some money or a trade of some sort. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Jul 7 00:27:15 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:08 2005 Subject: Wanted: KLESI-UA In-Reply-To: <200407070004.05649.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200407070004.05649.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <20040707052715.GA20297@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Jul 07, 2004 at 12:04:05AM -0500, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > So, now that I discover I had a TU80, not TU81 controller in my 11/750, > I'm looking for a KLESI Unibus card, aka M8739. If anyone has one, I'd > be willing to offer some money or a trade of some sort. Heh... find someone with a dead RC25... -ethan P.S. - my RC25 still works, but I could use some carts for my 11/725 -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 07-Jul-2004 05:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -76 F (-60.0 C) Windchill -117.8 F (-83.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 13.9 kts Grid 039 Barometer 664.7 mb (11208. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org Wed Jul 7 04:34:52 2004 From: pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: I'm stupider than you!! RSTS/E question References: Message-ID: <00a501c46405$a8d0d950$4601a8c0@ebrius> Ok, I've done something stupid. Really stupid. I'm almost afraid to post this, because you all will think I am stupid. I lost the 1,x password to my RSTS/E 9 system. I picked a strong password, wrote it on a piece of paper, and put it on my desk. I strongly suspect that it became part of a drawing one of my children did, you know, this is me, this is you, this is the house, and the chimney, that's your password. Anyway, my PDP is a just-pretend simh type PDP (because it would be divorce court if I installed a real one in my house...) and I have it all set up the way I like it, with custom scripts and Dungeon and Adventure, so that people can play these games on the internet via a bbs front end. Each user gets their own account... so they can save their games... ... it took a while to make this work. I'd rather not have to set it up again. Is there any way to hack into my own box to recover my own password, or is it time to mount the install "tapes" and start all over again? Damn! Mark "But Schindler is bueno! Senior Burns is El Diablo!" -------------------------------------------------------------- Website - http://www.retrobbs.org Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org BBS - http://bbs.retrobbs.org:8000 IRC - irc.retrobbs.org #main WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki From wacarder at usit.net Wed Jul 7 06:36:19 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: I'm stupider than you!! RSTS/E question In-Reply-To: <00a501c46405$a8d0d950$4601a8c0@ebrius> Message-ID: Ok, I haven't used a RSTS after version 7.0, but assuming that it didn't change much..... Start your system. When the startup process is going on, watch for 1/2 to log on to do things like setting up the CCLs, defining the KB speed, setting up logicals, adding run time systems, starting ERRCPY, etc. Try to hit control-c while it is logged onto 1,2. You may have to hit ^C *very quickly repeatedly* to get it before it logs off. Once you stop the startup process, then you can RUN $MONEY to find out what your password is. If things have changed considerably between v7 and v9, this might not work. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mark Firestone Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 5:35 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: I'm stupider than you!! RSTS/E question Ok, I've done something stupid. Really stupid. I'm almost afraid to post this, because you all will think I am stupid. I lost the 1,x password to my RSTS/E 9 system. I picked a strong password, wrote it on a piece of paper, and put it on my desk. I strongly suspect that it became part of a drawing one of my children did, you know, this is me, this is you, this is the house, and the chimney, that's your password. Anyway, my PDP is a just-pretend simh type PDP (because it would be divorce court if I installed a real one in my house...) and I have it all set up the way I like it, with custom scripts and Dungeon and Adventure, so that people can play these games on the internet via a bbs front end. Each user gets their own account... so they can save their games... ... it took a while to make this work. I'd rather not have to set it up again. Is there any way to hack into my own box to recover my own password, or is it time to mount the install "tapes" and start all over again? Damn! Mark "But Schindler is bueno! Senior Burns is El Diablo!" -------------------------------------------------------------- Website - http://www.retrobbs.org Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org BBS - http://bbs.retrobbs.org:8000 IRC - irc.retrobbs.org #main WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki From Pres at macro-inc.com Wed Jul 7 07:19:00 2004 From: Pres at macro-inc.com (Ed Kelleher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: Wanted: KLESI-UA In-Reply-To: <200407070004.05649.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20040707081631.03374c08@192.168.0.1> At 01:04 AM 7/7/2004, you wrote: >So, now that I discover I had a TU80, not TU81 controller in my 11/750, >I'm looking for a KLESI Unibus card, aka M8739. If anyone has one, I'd >be willing to offer some money or a trade of some sort. > >Pat >-- >Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ >The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org I have an M8739 (etch D1 Rev D1) I'd swap for a KDJ11-B? M8190-xx. Ed Kelleher West Columbia, South Carolina 29169 USA 803-796-8858 (Voice, Message and Fax) Pres@macro-inc.com www.macro-inc.com From pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org Wed Jul 7 07:30:46 2004 From: pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: I'm stupider than you!! RSTS/E question References: Message-ID: <011801c4641e$3be7cce0$4601a8c0@ebrius> That gets me into 1,2, and I can run money from [0,9], but it doesn't seem to matter if I tell money to print passwords or not, I still don't get passwords printing... Doesn't the system have to store the 1,2 password someplace so it can log into the account at startup? Thanks! Mark "But Schindler is bueno! Senior Burns is El Diablo!" -------------------------------------------------------------- Website - http://www.retrobbs.org Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org BBS - http://bbs.retrobbs.org:8000 IRC - irc.retrobbs.org #main WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Carder" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 12:36 PM Subject: RE: I'm stupider than you!! RSTS/E question > Ok, I haven't used a RSTS after version 7.0, but assuming that it > didn't change much..... > > Start your system. When the startup process is going on, watch > for 1/2 to log on to do things like setting up the CCLs, defining > the KB speed, setting up logicals, adding run time systems, > starting ERRCPY, etc. Try to hit control-c while it is logged > onto 1,2. You may have to hit ^C *very quickly repeatedly* to > get it before it logs off. Once you stop the startup process, > then you can RUN $MONEY to find out what your password is. > > If things have changed considerably between v7 and v9, this > might not work. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mark Firestone > Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 5:35 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: I'm stupider than you!! RSTS/E question > > > Ok, I've done something stupid. Really stupid. > > I'm almost afraid to post this, because you all will think I am stupid. > > I lost the 1,x password to my RSTS/E 9 system. I picked a strong password, > wrote it on a piece of paper, and put it on my desk. I strongly suspect > that it became part of a drawing one of my children did, you know, this is > me, this is you, this is the house, and the chimney, that's your password. > > Anyway, my PDP is a just-pretend simh type PDP (because it would be divorce > court if I installed a real one in my house...) and I have it all set up the > way I like it, with custom scripts and Dungeon and Adventure, so that people > can play these games on the internet via a bbs front end. Each user gets > their own account... so they can save their games... > > ... it took a while to make this work. I'd rather not have to set it up > again. Is there any way to hack into my own box to recover my own password, > or is it time to mount the install "tapes" and start all over again? > > Damn! > > Mark > > "But Schindler is bueno! Senior Burns is El Diablo!" > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Website - http://www.retrobbs.org > Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org > BBS - http://bbs.retrobbs.org:8000 > IRC - irc.retrobbs.org #main > WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki > > > > From dogas at bellsouth.net Wed Jul 7 07:41:07 2004 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: ET-3400 Floppy Drive References: <200406101845.i5AIjqbd004934@ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com><6.1.1.1.2.20040610164647.0d288960@pop-server><1086901354.14884.7.camel@weka.localdomain><20040610145313.G83507@newshell.lmi.net><003101c44fe5$cdd35220$6401a8c0@hal9000><019b01c450b9$de68d2c0$6401a8c0@knology.net> <001c01c4518d$7e50ce40$6401a8c0@hal9000> Message-ID: <002101c4641f$ad228160$7ddb3fd0@computer> Hi Steven, Paul, Joe... Sorry for the black-out. The Kilobaud issue that I was thinking of was from Sept/79 with the article "Best of Both Worlds." Although, I was mistaken recalling a floppy interface when actually the dude had interfaced an Econoram and a Digital Group's video boards to the trainer.... ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net > > Steven wrote: > > Anyone have the Kilobaud article where someone connected a FDD > to a Heathkit ET-3400 ? > > I just looked through my end of year indexes for my > Kilobaud/Microcomputing magazines, but I didn't see this article (or any > ET-3400 articles, for that matter). Sometimes the titles hide the contents > pretty well. If you can come up with an issue citation, I can make a copy > of the article. > > Paul Pennington > Augusta, Georgia > From wacarder at usit.net Wed Jul 7 08:10:53 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: I'm stupider than you!! RSTS/E question References: <011801c4641e$3be7cce0$4601a8c0@ebrius> Message-ID: <000c01c46423$d5873f20$99100f14@mcothran1> If you're able to get into 1,2 you can do whatever you want. I don't know what kinds of changes happened from v7 to v9, but you should be able to do anything you need to do if you're on 1,2 (except POKE, which you can only do from 1,1). For example, if you can break the startup sequence and get a READY prompt while logged into 1,2, you can do UT CHANGE [1,2] xxxxxx where xxxxxx is the new password for 1,2. Unless $MONEY was changed between v7 and v9, you should also be able to print passwords from 1,2. The passwords are stored in account [1,1], also known as the MFD (master file directory). $MONEY uses SYS() function call SYS(CHR$(6%)+CHR$(14%)) to retrieve the accounting info, including passwords, from the MFD. You could also write a program to open [1,1] as a file and get all this info yourself, bypassing the SYS() call and going directly to the MFD. Of course, all of this would require you to be logged on as a privileged user (1,*). All of my knowledge actually stops at RSTS V06C, but I have V7 running in the simulator and on a real PDP-11/34 and V7 seems to work pretty much the same as the V6 systems that I used to live on day and night back in the late 1970s. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Firestone" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 8:30 AM Subject: Re: I'm stupider than you!! RSTS/E question > That gets me into 1,2, and I can run money from [0,9], but it doesn't seem > to matter if I tell money to print passwords or not, I still don't get > passwords printing... > > Doesn't the system have to store the 1,2 password someplace so it can log > into the account at startup? > > Thanks! > > Mark > > "But Schindler is bueno! Senior Burns is El Diablo!" > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Website - http://www.retrobbs.org > Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org > BBS - http://bbs.retrobbs.org:8000 > IRC - irc.retrobbs.org #main > WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Carder" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 12:36 PM > Subject: RE: I'm stupider than you!! RSTS/E question > > > > Ok, I haven't used a RSTS after version 7.0, but assuming that it > > didn't change much..... > > > > Start your system. When the startup process is going on, watch > > for 1/2 to log on to do things like setting up the CCLs, defining > > the KB speed, setting up logicals, adding run time systems, > > starting ERRCPY, etc. Try to hit control-c while it is logged > > onto 1,2. You may have to hit ^C *very quickly repeatedly* to > > get it before it logs off. Once you stop the startup process, > > then you can RUN $MONEY to find out what your password is. > > > > If things have changed considerably between v7 and v9, this > > might not work. > > > > Ashley > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mark Firestone > > Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 5:35 AM > > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Subject: I'm stupider than you!! RSTS/E question > > > > > > Ok, I've done something stupid. Really stupid. > > > > I'm almost afraid to post this, because you all will think I am stupid. > > > > I lost the 1,x password to my RSTS/E 9 system. I picked a strong > password, > > wrote it on a piece of paper, and put it on my desk. I strongly suspect > > that it became part of a drawing one of my children did, you know, this is > > me, this is you, this is the house, and the chimney, that's your password. > > > > Anyway, my PDP is a just-pretend simh type PDP (because it would be > divorce > > court if I installed a real one in my house...) and I have it all set up > the > > way I like it, with custom scripts and Dungeon and Adventure, so that > people > > can play these games on the internet via a bbs front end. Each user gets > > their own account... so they can save their games... > > > > ... it took a while to make this work. I'd rather not have to set it up > > again. Is there any way to hack into my own box to recover my own > password, > > or is it time to mount the install "tapes" and start all over again? > > > > Damn! > > > > Mark > > > > "But Schindler is bueno! Senior Burns is El Diablo!" > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > Website - http://www.retrobbs.org > > Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org > > BBS - http://bbs.retrobbs.org:8000 > > IRC - irc.retrobbs.org #main > > WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki > > > > > > > > > From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Jul 7 08:40:24 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: I'm stupider than you!! RSTS/E question References: <00a501c46405$a8d0d950$4601a8c0@ebrius> Message-ID: <16619.64840.755244.631528@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Mark" == Mark Firestone writes: Mark> Ok, I've done something stupid. Really stupid. I'm almost Mark> afraid to post this, because you all will think I am stupid. Mark> I lost the 1,x password to my RSTS/E 9 system. I picked a Mark> strong password, ... Mark> ... it took a while to make this work. I'd rather not have to Mark> set it up again. Is there any way to hack into my own box to Mark> recover my own password, or is it time to mount the install Mark> "tapes" and start all over again? Boot the system, say "yes" to "start timesharing", say "no" to "proceed with system startup" and you'll find yourself at a DCL prompt. Reset the password, say "@[0,1]sysini.com start" and you're in business. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Jul 7 08:53:37 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: I'm stupider than you!! RSTS/E question References: <011801c4641e$3be7cce0$4601a8c0@ebrius> Message-ID: <16620.97.758014.562101@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Mark" == Mark Firestone writes: Mark> That gets me into 1,2, and I can run money from [0,9], but it Mark> doesn't seem to matter if I tell money to print passwords or Mark> not, I still don't get passwords printing... V9 and up by default use one way hashed passwords, so you can't see them. Just change the password with the SET PASSWORD command. Mark> Doesn't the system have to store the 1,2 password someplace so Mark> it can log into the account at startup? No -- the kernel can make a job be logged in simply by saying it is... :-) and in fact there are syscalls that do the same if you have enough privilege. FWIW, the password (hashed by default, or not if you say it shouldn't be as an account parameter) are stored in an account attribute, which lives in the GFD (group file directory) on the system disk. See the RSTS Internals Manual for the details. paul From wacarder at usit.net Wed Jul 7 09:00:51 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: I'm stupider than you!! RSTS/E question References: <00a501c46405$a8d0d950$4601a8c0@ebrius> <16619.64840.755244.631528@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <001001c4642a$d08dbb50$99100f14@mcothran1> Hmm, compared to my answer, this sounds like the good DEC guy answer vs. the evil 1978 teenage hacker answer. Back then they didn't call us hackers. I have a 1977 or 78 article that refers to us as "computerniks". Perhaps I'll scan the article and post it where folks can read it. It's pretty interesting and starts off something like "Beware - Computerniks at Work!". Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Koning" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 9:40 AM Subject: Re: I'm stupider than you!! RSTS/E question > >>>>> "Mark" == Mark Firestone writes: > > Mark> Ok, I've done something stupid. Really stupid. I'm almost > Mark> afraid to post this, because you all will think I am stupid. > > Mark> I lost the 1,x password to my RSTS/E 9 system. I picked a > Mark> strong password, ... > > Mark> ... it took a while to make this work. I'd rather not have to > Mark> set it up again. Is there any way to hack into my own box to > Mark> recover my own password, or is it time to mount the install > Mark> "tapes" and start all over again? > > Boot the system, say "yes" to "start timesharing", say "no" to > "proceed with system startup" and you'll find yourself at a DCL > prompt. Reset the password, say "@[0,1]sysini.com start" and you're > in business. > > paul > From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Jul 7 08:57:02 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: I'm stupider than you!! RSTS/E question References: <011801c4641e$3be7cce0$4601a8c0@ebrius> <000c01c46423$d5873f20$99100f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <16620.302.493643.773959@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ashley" == Ashley Carder writes: Ashley> If you're able to get into 1,2 you can do whatever you want. Ashley> I don't know what kinds of changes happened from v7 to v9, Ashley> but you should be able to do anything you need to do if Ashley> you're on 1,2 (except POKE, which you can only do from 1,1). Ashley> For example, if you can break the startup sequence and get a Ashley> READY prompt while logged into 1,2, you can do Ashley> UT CHANGE [1,2] xxxxxx Ashley> where xxxxxx is the new password for 1,2. Unless $MONEY was Ashley> changed between v7 and v9, you should also be able to print Ashley> passwords from 1,2. Ashley> The passwords are stored in account [1,1], also known as the Ashley> MFD (master file directory). $MONEY uses SYS() function call Ashley> SYS(CHR$(6%)+CHR$(14%)) to retrieve the accounting info, Ashley> including passwords, from the MFD. You could also write a Ashley> program to open [1,1] as a file and get all this info Ashley> yourself, bypassing the SYS() call and going directly to the Ashley> MFD. Of course, all of this would require you to be logged Ashley> on as a privileged user (1,*). All this is quite different as of V9.0. For one thing, there's a GFD (group file directory), and account attributes are stored there. Second, MONEY is history as is UTILTY -- these things changed to DCL command like "set account" or "set password". Finally, though it wasn't used all that widely, V9.0 and later have multiple privilege flags very much like what VMS has (somewhat better, in my opinion, but I'm biased...). The defaults are like they were before, but you can make 1,* accounts that are not privileged, or non-1,* accounts that are. Or you can have accounts that are somewhat privileged. For example, you can set up an account that can do backups -- but not restores, so that user can read files but not change files. paul From wacarder at usit.net Wed Jul 7 09:02:35 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: I'm stupider than you!! RSTS/E question References: <011801c4641e$3be7cce0$4601a8c0@ebrius> <16620.97.758014.562101@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <001701c4642b$0e64b9b0$99100f14@mcothran1> Looks like things are different in V9 than they were in V6/V7. Perhaps I need to update my knowledge base beyond V6. - A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Koning" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 9:53 AM Subject: Re: I'm stupider than you!! RSTS/E question > >>>>> "Mark" == Mark Firestone writes: > > Mark> That gets me into 1,2, and I can run money from [0,9], but it > Mark> doesn't seem to matter if I tell money to print passwords or > Mark> not, I still don't get passwords printing... > > V9 and up by default use one way hashed passwords, so you can't see > them. > > Just change the password with the SET PASSWORD command. > > Mark> Doesn't the system have to store the 1,2 password someplace so > Mark> it can log into the account at startup? > > No -- the kernel can make a job be logged in simply by saying it > is... :-) and in fact there are syscalls that do the same if you have > enough privilege. > > FWIW, the password (hashed by default, or not if you say it shouldn't > be as an account parameter) are stored in an account attribute, which > lives in the GFD (group file directory) on the system disk. See the > RSTS Internals Manual for the details. > > paul > From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Jul 7 09:20:16 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: cable lacing... In-Reply-To: <9E3A582A-CF8E-11D8-B112-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Jul 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > There was some there about harness boards. Once upon a time I worked > for CALMA in the subassembly area. Before we did all the wiring directly > on the chassis, with wires and ti-wraps. Then they came out with a > harness board > for the same item. They had the worker run wires in some random order, > cutting and > wrapping each end. > > > I showed them how to wrap the harness board more quickly by running one > color wire from > start to finish and cutting it where components would mount, saved wire > too. > > What I'd really like to get my hands on is one of those little printers that make wire numbering labels. The new ones are insanely expensive. g. From pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org Wed Jul 7 10:04:45 2004 From: pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: I'm stupider than you!! RSTS/E question References: <00a501c46405$a8d0d950$4601a8c0@ebrius><16619.64840.755244.631528@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <001001c4642a$d08dbb50$99100f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <006a01c46433$be016a50$4601a8c0@ebrius> Hey! I was a 1978 evil teenage DEC hacker. (except I was 12 at the time...) This is like my father and his damn toy trains that he couldn't afford as a kid (and plays with now at age 74)... I think when i was 12 an 11/70 must have been $20,000 Anyhow, thanks to all of you. I've got full access to my system back (and I created a nice extra account for me, incase I forget this one...) Take Care, Mark Thanks for all your help guys! "But Schindler is bueno! Senior Burns is El Diablo!" -------------------------------------------------------------- Website - http://www.retrobbs.org Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org BBS - http://bbs.retrobbs.org:8000 IRC - irc.retrobbs.org #main WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Carder" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 3:00 PM Subject: Re: I'm stupider than you!! RSTS/E question > Hmm, compared to my answer, this sounds like the good > DEC guy answer vs. the evil 1978 teenage hacker answer. > > Back then they didn't call us hackers. I have a 1977 or 78 > article that refers to us as "computerniks". Perhaps I'll scan > the article and post it where folks can read it. It's pretty > interesting and starts off something like "Beware - > Computerniks at Work!". > > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Koning" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 9:40 AM > Subject: Re: I'm stupider than you!! RSTS/E question > > > > >>>>> "Mark" == Mark Firestone writes: > > > > Mark> Ok, I've done something stupid. Really stupid. I'm almost > > Mark> afraid to post this, because you all will think I am stupid. > > > > Mark> I lost the 1,x password to my RSTS/E 9 system. I picked a > > Mark> strong password, ... > > > > Mark> ... it took a while to make this work. I'd rather not have to > > Mark> set it up again. Is there any way to hack into my own box to > > Mark> recover my own password, or is it time to mount the install > > Mark> "tapes" and start all over again? > > > > Boot the system, say "yes" to "start timesharing", say "no" to > > "proceed with system startup" and you'll find yourself at a DCL > > prompt. Reset the password, say "@[0,1]sysini.com start" and you're > > in business. > > > > paul > > > > From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Wed Jul 7 10:10:50 2004 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: Pimping VCF East... Message-ID: Since I'm going to be exhibiting, I'm interested in having a lot of people show up for VCF East... general (or at least technically inclined) public as well as the "usual suspects". I noted that last fall's VCF West didn't show up on Slashdot until Saturday at 2 PM. A number of people complained that they would have attended with a little more notice. It did show up on Wired on Thursday. Should we try to talk it up? Is there a reason not to? Bill From wacarder at usit.net Wed Jul 7 10:21:09 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: I'm stupider than you!! RSTS/E question References: <00a501c46405$a8d0d950$4601a8c0@ebrius><16619.64840.755244.631528@gargle.gargle.HOWL><001001c4642a$d08dbb50$99100f14@mcothran1> <006a01c46433$be016a50$4601a8c0@ebrius> Message-ID: <008101c46436$08636600$99100f14@mcothran1> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Firestone" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 11:04 AM Subject: Re: I'm stupider than you!! RSTS/E question > Hey! I was a 1978 evil teenage DEC hacker. (except I was 12 at the > time...) > > This is like my father and his damn toy trains that he couldn't afford as a > kid (and plays with now at age 74)... I think when i was 12 an 11/70 must > have been $20,000 > I actually think it was much higher than $20k. In 1975, our 11/40 with two RK05s, RSTS/E, a couple VT50s, and an LA36 or two cost over $50k, and that was with a discount from DEC. The list price for that system as described above was $68,000. I am working on recreating a reasonable facsimile of the system described above. I'm constructing a PDP-11 computer center room (heated/cooled) in my shop to house this thing. I have the system up and running on an 11/34 and plan to move it to an 11/40 in a couple 6' racks in the next couple months. > Anyhow, thanks to all of you. I've got full access to my system back (and I > created a nice extra account for me, incase I forget this one...) > > Take Care, > > Mark > > Thanks for all your help guys! > "But Schindler is bueno! Senior Burns is El Diablo!" > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Website - http://www.retrobbs.org > Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org > BBS - http://bbs.retrobbs.org:8000 > IRC - irc.retrobbs.org #main > WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Carder" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 3:00 PM > Subject: Re: I'm stupider than you!! RSTS/E question > > > > Hmm, compared to my answer, this sounds like the good > > DEC guy answer vs. the evil 1978 teenage hacker answer. > > > > Back then they didn't call us hackers. I have a 1977 or 78 > > article that refers to us as "computerniks". Perhaps I'll scan > > the article and post it where folks can read it. It's pretty > > interesting and starts off something like "Beware - > > Computerniks at Work!". > > > > Ashley > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Paul Koning" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 9:40 AM > > Subject: Re: I'm stupider than you!! RSTS/E question > > > > > > > >>>>> "Mark" == Mark Firestone writes: > > > > > > Mark> Ok, I've done something stupid. Really stupid. I'm almost > > > Mark> afraid to post this, because you all will think I am stupid. > > > > > > Mark> I lost the 1,x password to my RSTS/E 9 system. I picked a > > > Mark> strong password, ... > > > > > > Mark> ... it took a while to make this work. I'd rather not have to > > > Mark> set it up again. Is there any way to hack into my own box to > > > Mark> recover my own password, or is it time to mount the install > > > Mark> "tapes" and start all over again? > > > > > > Boot the system, say "yes" to "start timesharing", say "no" to > > > "proceed with system startup" and you'll find yourself at a DCL > > > prompt. Reset the password, say "@[0,1]sysini.com start" and you're > > > in business. > > > > > > paul > > > > > > > > From vern4wright at yahoo.com Wed Jul 7 13:28:18 2004 From: vern4wright at yahoo.com (Vernon Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: "My disaster, your good luck" - Update Message-ID: <20040707182818.57138.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks for the positive response to my previous note mentioning the necessity of getting gone a number of classic computers. I've put up a website where some of these can be seen, along with a lot of other things. I'll be adding to this site as time goes on.... http://www.geocities.com/vdw4sale/MoiPage.html It's just a bit of the vast amount of 'stuff' I have! Regards, Vern __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Wed Jul 7 13:59:05 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: PDP OS Boot Sequence: WAS Re: RK05/RL02 Boot Sequence References: <20040701084410.D4FA7790052@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> <16612.6170.552500.656950@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <200407022101.RAA8716454@shell.TheWorld.com> <16618.50977.756979.938293@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <40EC47F9.8D3A01F1@compsys.to> >Paul Koning wrote: > >>>>> "Megan" == Megan writes: > Megan> Typically, for the -11's, the first block (block 0) of the > Megan> device is loaded at address 0. The DEC bootblock standard > Megan> calls for the first word to be a 5 (reset) and the second to > Megan> be a branch to the rest of the code (so that locations 4/6 and > Megan> 10/12 at a minimum are free for non-existent memory and > Megan> illegal instruction traps). > That doesn't match what I learned (or what's in RSTS 10.1). The reset > in location 0 was an old convention. But when a real boot block > standard appeared, it said that 0 had to be a NOP, and 2 a branch to > the setup code. Also, there had to be a "Szeto ID area" just before > the branch target. Jerome Fine replies: This is what I just found for RT-11: For V01-15 (1973), there is a "JMP addr" instruction at location zero. The VECTORs at 60, 60 and 100 are also used. I checked both the DecTape and RK05 device drivers. By V02.B (1975), there was a "NOP" at location zero followed by a "BR addr" instruction. The VECTORs at 60, 64 and 100 are NOT used. This usage is maintained for ALL subsequent versions of RT-11 running on a PDP-11 using RK05 or RL02 device drivers (when available). I assume that all other device drives would be the same. > As a special case, PRO boot devices must have a HALT (0) in word 0 -- > obviously the ROM boot transfers control to 2 and not 0 as on other > PDP11s. Starting with V05.03 of RT-11 from 1985 (a few earlier versions may also support the PRO hardware), I set up a BOOT image for a PRO device driver by: COPY/BOOT:DZ dev:RT11FB.SYS dev: I then checked the boot code in block zero of dev: and found NO differences at all (except for the code specific for "DZ"). There was a "NOP" in location zero followed by a "BR addr" instruction. VECTORs 60, 64 and 100 were all zeros. Somewhere (very buried, but might be found if it was essential), I have a bootable RX50 floppy that I tested on a PRO350 about 5 years (probably longer) ago. If there are any more questions, please ask. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From allain at panix.com Wed Jul 7 13:58:25 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: "My disaster, your good luck" - Update References: <20040707182818.57138.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008f01c46454$62647e00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > It's just a bit of the vast amount of 'stuff' I have! > http://www.geocities.com/vdw4sale/MoiPage.html "Sorry, this site is temporarily unavailable! The web site you are trying to access has exceeded its allocated data transfer." 'stuff' not including web space apparently. John A. From mbg at TheWorld.com Tue Jul 6 12:03:22 2004 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: PDP OS Boot Sequence: WAS Re: RK05/RL02 Boot Sequence References: <20040701084410.D4FA7790052@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> <16612.6170.552500.656950@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <200407022101.RAA8716454@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <200407061703.NAA28805@shell.TheWorld.com> >That doesn't match what I learned (or what's in RSTS 10.1). The reset >in location 0 was an old convention. But when a real boot block >standard appeared, it said that 0 had to be a NOP, and 2 a branch to >the setup code. Also, there had to be a "Szeto ID area" just before >the branch target. Darn, you're right... I plead memory bit-rot. The RT data disk (non-bootable, although there is a small routine loaded into block 0 which, if you try to boot the volume, reports that it is not bootable) contains 240 5 BR so there is a reset on a data disk for RT. A bootable disk, however, is 240 BR as you mentioned... Megan From norman at pomfret.wyenet.co.uk Tue Jul 6 12:43:50 2004 From: norman at pomfret.wyenet.co.uk (Norman & Brenda Pomfret) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: UA78mguic Power regulators Message-ID: <000801c46380$cd588230$261f78d5@study> Hi, I was searching the web for data on these regulators UA78MGIC, and noted your appeal. Are you still needing ? Whilst I dont believe I have any of the 79 variety I have a few of the 78's I would like a data on these, then they can be put to good use in say 0.5A regulated power supplies. Regards Norman Pomfret From jdbryan at acm.org Tue Jul 6 12:59:56 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: Motorola MVME131 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200407061759.i66HxwZa006724@mail.bcpl.net> On 4 Jul 2004 at 17:50, Davison, Lee wrote: > Looking for docs on the above. I have the Motorola "16/32-Bit Microcomputer System Components" databook (DL127, Revision 1, 1985), but the MVME131 datasheet therein is marked "Advance Information" and is only seven pages long. It's not much more than an overview. However, if it will help you, I'll scan and PDF it. -- Dave From jdbryan at acm.org Tue Jul 6 16:14:19 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: HP firmware identifications? In-Reply-To: <20040705014237.EB6663E42@spies.com> Message-ID: <200407062114.i66LEKon016031@mail.bcpl.net> On 4 Jul 2004 at 18:42, Al Kossow wrote: > RTE6/VM OS 92084-80001 E946 > 92084-80102 E116 > 92084-80103 C670 The "HP Communicator/1000 for Software Update 6.0" (5961-6201, 12/92) lists the above ROMs as "Version 107B" of the OS ROMs. "Version 10B" supercede those and are 92084-80007 through -80009. The 93585-xxxxx ROMs are not listed in that document. -- Dave From classiccomp-tech at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 6 17:54:09 2004 From: classiccomp-tech at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: cleaning up after old NiCds Message-ID: <131685841.20040706235409@bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk> Hiya all I've a number of boards (old PC motherboards, VAXen bulkhead panels / planars) where the NiCds have 'leaked', covering areas of PCB and metalwork / screws with a greyish 'corrosion'. What is this, and how does one clear the boards / metalwork to get rid of it and return to nice & clean? On the VAX TOY batteries, the corrosion seems to have followed one battery wire (black, -ve) to the molex connector, corroding / coating that, and then spreading across the boards... ta greg From KParker at workcover.com Tue Jul 6 19:06:14 2004 From: KParker at workcover.com (Parker, Kevin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: DECstation Message-ID: <2E6595D306CCF54DB703F7BB1E261623621115@minerva.headoffice.corporate.local> Looking for owner manuals for a DECstation 5000/125 TIA!!! +++++++++++++++++++ Kevin Parker Web Services Manager WorkCover Corporation p: 08 8233 2548 e: webmaster@workcover.com w: www.workcover.com +++++++++++++++++++ ************************************************************************ This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee only. It may contain information that is protected by legislated confidentiality and/or is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you are prohibited from disseminating, distributing or copying this e-mail. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail may not necessarily be that of the WorkCover Corporation of South Australia. Although precautions have been taken, the sender cannot warrant that this e-mail or any files transmitted with it are free of viruses or any other defect. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and destroy the original e-mail and any copies. ************************************************************************ From bkotaska at charter.net Tue Jul 6 20:44:04 2004 From: bkotaska at charter.net (Bill Kotaska) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: HP-85 stuff Message-ID: <003b01c463c3$f6d2d000$0200a8c0@ath700> Jay wrote on Fri, 2 Jul 2004 15:44:04 > I'm looking for the EMS rom for the HP-85A. Or better yet, has any progress > been made in the project to clone the HP programmable rom module? It's possible to build one using standard parts. I'm nearly done with a schematic. To complete it, I need to borrow a module for a very short time. Does anyone have one they'd be willing to loan (or willing to ring out a few paths)? Bill From emxlists at tstf.net Tue Jul 6 20:43:19 2004 From: emxlists at tstf.net (emx) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: IBM 5110 APL ROS In-Reply-To: <40EAD8C9.1030704@citem.org> References: <838042345.20040706232838@tstf.net> <40EAD8C9.1030704@citem.org> Message-ID: <1959791163.20040707084319@tstf.net> Hans, Unfortunately the reverse isn't true. While the wires are present, the ROS modules are missing. Trying to close the wires (simulating a language switch) and hitting RESTART only result in booting BASIC. I read on a forum that someone did what you suggested on an APL-only machine and it gave them BASIC capability as well. -Emmanuel Tuesday, July 6, 2004, 11:52:25 PM, you wrote: > emx wrote: >> I am looking for the APL ROS for a IBM 5110 >> >> Does anyone knows if I stand any chance to find such thing? > Why do you need it? We found that our APL only machine included the > BASIC implementation, we needed only to install the language selection > switch on the front panel. > I would be very interested in knowing if the same holds true for the > BASIC only machine. > -- HansP From squidster at techie.com Tue Jul 6 23:01:32 2004 From: squidster at techie.com (wai-sun chia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: 11/70 and 11/04 core interchangeable? Message-ID: <20040707040132.8395F79002E@ws1-14.us4.outblaze.com> Hello list, Just a quickie; are core from a 11/70 interchangeable with a 11/04 (only 16-bit addressing)? Specifically: - G236/H224C/G116 32kW x 18 (option MJ11, I think..) - G235/H217C/G114 16kW x ?? Thanks. /wai-sun -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From cc at corti-net.de Wed Jul 7 04:11:00 2004 From: cc at corti-net.de (Christian Corti) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: IBM 5110 APL ROS In-Reply-To: <838042345.20040706232838@tstf.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Jul 2004, emx wrote: > I am looking for the APL ROS for a IBM 5110 > Does anyone knows if I stand any chance to find such thing? If you want to upgrade your BASIC only machine I have to tell you that it is not sufficient to replace the language card. AFAIK you will also need a new Executable ROS card because the APL interpreter "interpreter" is running from Exec ROS and fetching the opcodes of the APL interpreter from the Language ROS. BTW it's the same when trying to build a tape drive into a model 2 5110. This will require a new Exec ROS and a new Base I/O card. I don't know if adding backplane wires would be needed, too. But if you are just curious I can send you ROS images of the language ROS. Making an image from the Executable ROS is not trivial because the processor can't access this ROS during instruction execution phase, only during instructions fetches. This is the reason why loading word constants into registers in ROS code can only be done with LBI,MLH,LBI and not LWI (i.e. PC relative with postincrement). For example, to load the constant $A62F into R2 you have to write LBI R2, #$A6 MLH R2, R2 LBI R2, #$2F instead of LWI R2, #$A62F which means MOVE R2, (R0)+ DW $A62F <- this is a data word that can't be read from ROS Christian From cannings at earthlink.net Wed Jul 7 11:04:27 2004 From: cannings at earthlink.net (Steven Canning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: ET-3400 Floppy Drive References: <200406101845.i5AIjqbd004934@ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com><6.1.1.1.2.20040610164647.0d288960@pop-server><1086901354.14884.7.camel@weka.localdomain><20040610145313.G83507@newshell.lmi.net><003101c44fe5$cdd35220$6401a8c0@hal9000><019b01c450b9$de68d2c0$6401a8c0@knology.net> <001c01c4518d$7e50ce40$6401a8c0@hal9000> <002101c4641f$ad228160$7ddb3fd0@computer> Message-ID: <000901c4643c$147b3250$6401a8c0@hal9000> Mike, Thanks for the update on the article. Guess I'll have to design one myself. We are happy to hear from you. We were starting to worry that something might have happened to you. Welcome back. Best regards, Steven Hi Steven, Paul, Joe... Sorry for the black-out. The Kilobaud issue that I was thinking of was from Sept/79 with the article "Best of Both Worlds." Although, I was mistaken recalling a floppy interface when actually the dude had interfaced an Econoram and a Digital Group's video boards to the trainer.... ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net > > Steven wrote: > > Anyone have the Kilobaud article where someone connected a FDD > to a Heathkit ET-3400 ? > > I just looked through my end of year indexes for my > Kilobaud/Microcomputing magazines, but I didn't see this article (or any > ET-3400 articles, for that matter). Sometimes the titles hide the contents > pretty well. If you can come up with an issue citation, I can make a copy > of the article. > > Paul Pennington > Augusta, Georgia > From dholland at woh.rr.com Wed Jul 7 14:23:30 2004 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: HP & sgi stuff on eBay UK In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.0.20040706235340.03f5f4f0@albert> References: <6.1.1.1.0.20040706235340.03f5f4f0@albert> Message-ID: <1089228208.9212.9.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> Drat, its on the wrong side of the water.. ;-/ Obligatory: Anyone a reasonable distance from Ohio got a Crimson they wanna unload. :) David On Tue, 2004-07-06 at 18:56, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > spotted some "buy it or it's scrapped" listings for some old kit.... > Collection only from Maidenhead, Berks, UK. > > SGI Server anyone? > > http://cgi6.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=honkajou > From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Wed Jul 7 14:17:50 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: DECstation In-Reply-To: <2E6595D306CCF54DB703F7BB1E261623621115@minerva.headoffice.corporate.local> Message-ID: <005401c46457$18911470$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > Looking for owner manuals for a DECstation 5000/125 IIRC the DECstation 5000-1xx machines are all much of a muchness, differing mainly in processor speeds. You can find manuals for almost any one of them (except, ironically, the 125) over at Manx: http://vt100.net/manx. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From hansp at citem.org Wed Jul 7 14:42:17 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: IBM 5110 APL ROS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40EC5219.6030506@citem.org> Christian Corti wrote: > But if you are just curious I can send you ROS images of the language ROS. > Making an image from the Executable ROS is not trivial because the > processor can't access this ROS during instruction execution phase, > only during instructions fetches. This is the reason why loading word > constants into registers in ROS code can only be done with LBI,MLH,LBI and > not LWI (i.e. PC relative with postincrement). > For example, to load the constant $A62F into R2 you have to write > LBI R2, #$A6 > MLH R2, R2 > LBI R2, #$2F > > instead of > > LWI R2, #$A62F > which means > MOVE R2, (R0)+ > DW $A62F <- this is a data word that can't be read from ROS I'm curious ;-) Is this technical information available on-line anywhere? It would be fun to do a 5110 simulator..... -- HansP From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jul 7 15:45:20 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: VCF East, ASR33 help wanted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jun 2004, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > I would like to recruit 3 or 4 knowledgeable and highly motivated > classiccmpers (motivated by the prospect of DINNER and BEER on me) > at VCF East to completely tear down, clean, adjust, lubricate and > reassemble the ASR. I will supply all of the tools and materials > (unless you have special purpose tools that will help). I picture > a marathon operation, with the experts doing the disassembly, > assembly and adjustment work and me with a toothbrush and a pan of > Simple Green (or alcohol or kerosene or whatever solvent the experts > suggest) busily scrubbing parts as they are handed to me. With four > guys and one scrubber, could this be accomplished in a couple of > hours? If you can recruit the right people then this would make for an excellent exhibition, and I'd give you a table and some space to work with on the exhibit floor. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jul 7 15:49:17 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: VCF East, ASR33 help wanted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jun 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > An ASR-33 rebuild center would be quite cool. What I would bring > > Complete ASR-33 (tractor feed!) unit, known problems include alighment of > keyboard typing unit, plastic case destroyed > > ASR-33 keyboard assembly [somekeys laying in the bottom of the box, all > springs appear accounted for > > ASR-33 typing unit, appears good, previous owener stated working condition, > never powered up. An ASR-33 clinic would be really cool. We could run it in the afternoon period when the talks are done. Everyone who wants an ASR-33 repaired could bring theirs. Can we find an old Teletype technician who is skilled at working on these things? I would't want to leave it up to a bunch of amateurs :) Anyway, please copy any replies to this DIRECTLY to me at . I'm about 1000 messages behind on the list and you people talk way too much. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jul 7 16:00:26 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again Message-ID: <10407072200.ZM9048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> I had a more careful look at the pile of terminal servers and hubs today, and found some more "stuff". I'm surprised I've had so little response, but if anyone definitely wants any of this, please let me know before the end of next week or it will be gone (crushed/landfill). However, if I know for sure that someone wants particular things, I can hold some of them for a little longer. qty.1 VT220, amber screen, working, in resonable condition, with keyboard qty.1 VT510, green (I think) screen, decent condition, with keyboard (There may be a few more VT510s or VT420s. Apparently someone found four in a storeroom this morning, but I've not inspected them yet.) qty.15 Emulex P4000 terminal servers, 32-port, network booting (DECnet or TCP/IP), with parallel port, BNC connector, AUI connector, and 32 MMJ ports. I'll throw in 32 short MMJ-to-RJ45 cables and an Allied Telesyn 10baseT microtransceiver with each. 1 is working (well, it powers up and passes the self-test); 5 are "faulty" (power light comes on but not much else happens -- probably faulty PSU), 3 are "dead" (almost certainly blown PSU), 4 have no PSU board, and there are two that I've not properly tested yet. qty.6 32-port 19" rackmount panels, 2U high, to take clip-in jacks (eg RJ45 couplers). Sorry, no spare RJ45 couplers. These were used with the terminal servers, we used short MMJ-RJ45 cables to connect the TS to the back of the panel, and connected normal patch leads to the front. You can buy couplers (but be warned, I've never yet seen one that met the Cat5 spec, despite some claims), or individual clip-in RJ45 sockets with Krone/110 punchdown connectors (which do meet Cat5/5e/6 specs) in various colours, BNC connectors, ST fibre connectors, etc. qty.?? several (a dozen or so) 3Com Linkbuilder FMS II 24-port hubs, 1U high 19" rackmount, mostly with management units. Good for the PSUs if you don't need a 10Mb/s hub :-) qty.?? several (a dozen or so) 3Com SuperStack II PS 40 24-port hubs, 1U high 19" rackmount, with on-board management. Neater than the FMS II hubs. Various expansion modules that plug into the back of 3Com hubs. You can fit two to a PS 40, or one to an FMS II: qty.10 AUI port, 10base5 module qty.1 BNC 10base2 module qty.5 Fanout module, like an AUI in reverse qty.1 AUI bridge -- looks like an AUI port but has a lot of electronics too qty.6 (or maybe more) fibre optic adaptor with 2 x ST connectors Also a box of Allied Telesyn AUI-to-10baseT microtransceivers, and several older (mostly 12-port) hubs that are good for the PSUs (and not much else IMHO). I'll be away from tomorrow night until Wednesday, but if you want any of this stuff, please email me. It seems a shame to scrap it completely. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Wed Jul 7 16:09:00 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: HP & sgi stuff on eBay UK In-Reply-To: <1089228208.9212.9.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> Message-ID: <006e01c46466$a8c87dd0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > Drat, its on the wrong side of the water.. ;-/ I beg to differ :-) -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jul 7 16:38:25 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes In-Reply-To: <16610.63201.840501.731973@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jun 2004, Paul Koning wrote: > Joe> Seriously, what's the difficulty? > > Did they check the recipient's name against the denied parties list? > Do they even know what a denied parties list is? Did they check the > export category of the item being exported, and verify what the export > rules are that apply to *that* category for *that* destination country > and type of recipient? > > That's the difficulty. The US Post Office makes no mention of this requirement, which is still fairly new as far as I know. So as long as the USPS is not enforcing it, then what does it really matter? Once Bush and his ill lot is out of office it's not going to matter anyway. The US PATRIOT act is going to be relegated to the shitheap of history (along with the rest of his putrid administration). (Or am I being WAY TOO optimistic?) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Jul 7 16:59:03 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes References: <16610.63201.840501.731973@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <16620.29223.889133.32043@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Vintage" == Vintage Computer Festival writes: Vintage> On Wed, 30 Jun 2004, Paul Koning wrote: Joe> Seriously, what's the difficulty? >> Did they check the recipient's name against the denied parties >> list? Do they even know what a denied parties list is? Did they >> check the export category of the item being exported, and verify >> what the export rules are that apply to *that* category for *that* >> destination country and type of recipient? >> >> That's the difficulty. Vintage> The US Post Office makes no mention of this requirement, Vintage> which is still fairly new as far as I know. I know it existed in 2000. I suspect it has existed for many years before then. Vintage> So as long as the USPS is not enforcing it, then what does Vintage> it really matter? As the old saying goes "ignorance of the law is not an excuse". Vintage> Once Bush and his ill lot is out of office it's not going to Vintage> matter anyway. The US PATRIOT act is going to be relegated Vintage> to the shitheap of history (along with the rest of his Vintage> putrid administration). Vintage> (Or am I being WAY TOO optimistic?) Rather than get into political debates, I'll just point out that this whole discussion has NOTHING to do with the Patriot act. Export controls have been in existence for decades. They will continue under either party. (You might look into which party was in power when the Clipper chip debacle was underway.) paul From marvin at rain.org Wed Jul 7 17:26:47 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes References: Message-ID: <40EC78A7.EAF75EC2@rain.org> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Once Bush and his ill lot is out of office it's not going to matter > anyway. The US PATRIOT act is going to be relegated to the shitheap of > history (along with the rest of his putrid administration). > > (Or am I being WAY TOO optimistic?) You are being naive in thinking that Kerry will be any different. From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jul 7 17:38:38 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes References: <40EC78A7.EAF75EC2@rain.org> Message-ID: <000801c46473$25964c00$6e2b1941@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Johnston" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 6:26 PM Subject: Re: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes > > > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > > Once Bush and his ill lot is out of office it's not going to matter > > anyway. The US PATRIOT act is going to be relegated to the shitheap of > > history (along with the rest of his putrid administration). > > > > (Or am I being WAY TOO optimistic?) > > You are being naive in thinking that Kerry will be any different. > I can't think of a democrat that went out of his way to piss other world leaders off like Bush does. Each party is owned by big business if that is what you are referring to. From trestivo at tarinc.com Wed Jul 7 18:39:41 2004 From: trestivo at tarinc.com (thom restivo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: Pimping VCF East... Message-ID: <000001c4647b$acfddd90$6601a8c0@vaiolaptop> Hey Bill, I'll be looking for you at VCF east. I'm setting up a vendor booth so if you get a chance come visit me. The booth will have a sign saying "Technical Assurance Resources. I'm bringing a few items to sell, but mostly I'll be looking for a buyer interested in purchasing my entire lot of DEC and VAX stuff (over 5000 boards plus a whole lot more) I'll be staying at the Holiday Inn and I'll be arriving on Thursday as well. I hope to meet a lot of the people I've been dealing with. A lot of names on this forum are very familiar! See ya there. Thom From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 7 18:17:54 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:09 2005 Subject: cable lacing... In-Reply-To: References: <9E3A582A-CF8E-11D8-B112-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040707191754.008fd650@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:20 AM 7/7/04 -0700, you wrote: > >What I'd really like to get my hands on is one of those little printers >that make wire numbering labels. The new ones are insanely expensive. Why not just print them out in a small font and then stick them to the cable with some kind of temporary glue and then put clear heatshrink over the label and shrink it in place? (Avery self stick labels and Avery's label software might be good to use for this.) FWIW a lot of the new cables that I'm seeing simply print the label on a piece of plastic then then wrap it on the cable and tie around the ends of it with lacing cord or plastic tie wraps. Joe > >g. > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 7 18:24:29 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: cleaning up after old NiCds In-Reply-To: <131685841.20040706235409@bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040707192429.00908b40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> It's causes by the Potassium Hydroxide electrolyte leaking out of the NiCads batteries. It forms a complex copper salt hence the greenish color. I've found that full strength Lime-Away will dissolve it. Use the liquid stuff, NOT THE GELL, put it on and leave it for a few minutes then brush it off with an old toothbrush while rinsing it under water. Dry well. Next time throw those old NiCads out and don't zap them to try and reuse them. When they start to fail it's time to get rid of them. If you don't they'll start leaking. Joe At 11:54 PM 7/6/04 +0100, you wrote: >Hiya all >I've a number of boards (old PC motherboards, VAXen bulkhead panels / >planars) where the NiCds have 'leaked', covering areas of PCB and >metalwork / screws with a greyish 'corrosion'. What is this, and how >does one clear the boards / metalwork to get rid of it and return to >nice & clean? On the VAX TOY batteries, the corrosion seems to have >followed one battery wire (black, -ve) to the molex connector, >corroding / coating that, and then spreading across the boards... > >ta >greg > > > From cmcnabb at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 18:55:46 2004 From: cmcnabb at gmail.com (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes In-Reply-To: <000801c46473$25964c00$6e2b1941@game> References: <40EC78A7.EAF75EC2@rain.org> <000801c46473$25964c00$6e2b1941@game> Message-ID: <145cecdd040707165525903ba4@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 7 Jul 2004 18:38:38 -0400, Teo Zenios wrote: > > I can't think of a democrat that went out of his way to piss other world > leaders off like Bush does. Each party is owned by big business if that is > what you are referring to. > Fortunately, it is the citizens of the US that elect the US president, not the other world leaders. That said, I see no difference between democrat and republican, and I don't see how this thread applies to classic computers at all. From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Wed Jul 7 19:08:27 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <009201c4647f$b25bee90$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > The US Post Office makes no mention of this requirement, > which is still > fairly new as far as I know. Export restrictions have been around forever. They exist in almost every country and are (I would guess) mostly ignored (probably through ignorance) almost everywhere. While I was at DEC, the export compliance training was mandatory for everyone every so many months or years (2 years I think). The story was that someone had shipped something (possibly a VAX) to someone seemingly legit who then passed it along to someone he shouldn't have. Big fine, mandatory compliance training. > So as long as the USPS is not enforcing it, then what does it really > matter? I think it will be your govenrment who actually enforce it :-) It will olny matter once you get caught - pretty much like all laws :-) If anything, this one has been toned down a bit in the last few years (at least on the US side). Super computers (like, say, an entry level mobile phone these days :-)) are no longer classed as nuclear munitions so you can sell them to anyone (except people on the DPL and presumably people who know where the banned countries are). > Once Bush and his ill lot is out of office it's not going to matter > anyway. The US PATRIOT act is going to be relegated to the > shitheap of > history (along with the rest of his putrid administration). It's nothing to do with the PATRIOT act - it has been around for much longer than that. It's all to do with not selling to your Cold War enemies. All toned down because big biz realised that if they could not sell computers outside the US someone else would :-) Ecommerce helped too. If the PATRIOT act gets in the way of big business, it will go the same way. Not that I care - I'm in the UK ... I presume we have our own DPL equivalent but I have no real idea :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 7 18:37:27 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Wanted: KLESI-UA In-Reply-To: <20040707052715.GA20297@bos7.spole.gov> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 7, 4 05:27:15 am Message-ID: > P.S. - my RC25 still works, but I could use some carts for my 11/725 It may work _now_, but as soon as you load an unkown cartridge you'll have problems :-) -tony From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Jul 7 19:30:08 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: cable lacing... In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040707191754.008fd650@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > >What I'd really like to get my hands on is one of those little printers > >that make wire numbering labels. The new ones are insanely expensive. > > Why not just print them out in a small font and then stick them to the > cable with some kind of temporary glue and then put clear heatshrink over > the label and shrink it in place? (Avery self stick labels and Avery's > label software might be good to use for this.) FWIW a lot of the new cables > that I'm seeing simply print the label on a piece of plastic then then wrap > it on the cable and tie around the ends of it with lacing cord or plastic > tie wraps. > It's not the cable that's the problem to label, it's the _wires_. Try finding an Avery label that will fit correctly on a single 24ga wire. :) It's not that big of a deal to do without good number labels when you're working with fairly small wire count cables, but when you've got a monster that has more than 200 wires divided into 10+ 25 pin D-Sub connectors on one end and a mix of 15 and 25 pin d-sub connectors along its length, things get dicey if you can't number the wires in a way that won't "bulge" the harness. g. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Jul 7 19:36:29 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: cleaning up after old NiCds Message-ID: <200407080036.RAA01706@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Beside the limeaway, also put the board in a bath of vinegar ( white distilled ) and water ( 50-50 ) for about 20 minutes. The potassium hydroxide soaks into the fiberglass boards and will pop out again. Vinegar is one of those acids that forms a vapor and can get inside of things. This is also good because it will eventually evaporate. When mounting new NiCads, put them in a plastic bag and run single strand insulated wires from the battery to the board ( you noticed how it went right through multi-strand wire ). We have this same problem in pinball machines. Also replace any sockets that might be suspect and any dip switches that are near. Dwight >From: "Joe R." > > It's causes by the Potassium Hydroxide electrolyte leaking out of the >NiCads batteries. It forms a complex copper salt hence the greenish color. >I've found that full strength Lime-Away will dissolve it. Use the liquid >stuff, NOT THE GELL, put it on and leave it for a few minutes then brush it >off with an old toothbrush while rinsing it under water. Dry well. Next >time throw those old NiCads out and don't zap them to try and reuse them. >When they start to fail it's time to get rid of them. If you don't they'll >start leaking. > > Joe > > > >At 11:54 PM 7/6/04 +0100, you wrote: >>Hiya all >>I've a number of boards (old PC motherboards, VAXen bulkhead panels / >>planars) where the NiCds have 'leaked', covering areas of PCB and >>metalwork / screws with a greyish 'corrosion'. What is this, and how >>does one clear the boards / metalwork to get rid of it and return to >>nice & clean? On the VAX TOY batteries, the corrosion seems to have >>followed one battery wire (black, -ve) to the molex connector, >>corroding / coating that, and then spreading across the boards... >> >>ta >>greg >> >> >> > From dogas at bellsouth.net Wed Jul 7 19:41:32 2004 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: ET-3400 Floppy Drive References: <200406101845.i5AIjqbd004934@ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com><6.1.1.1.2.20040610164647.0d288960@pop-server><1086901354.14884.7.camel@weka.localdomain><20040610145313.G83507@newshell.lmi.net><003101c44fe5$cdd35220$6401a8c0@hal9000><019b01c450b9$de68d2c0$6401a8c0@knology.net><001c01c4518d$7e50ce40$6401a8c0@hal9000><002101c4641f$ad228160$7ddb3fd0@computer> <000901c4643c$147b3250$6401a8c0@hal9000> Message-ID: <019601c46484$5134ec20$7ddb3fd0@computer> Hi Steve, > > Thanks for the update on the article. Guess I'll have to design one myself. I've had that project on the Begin Pile for awhile now too. I think I'll try to go through a CoCo FD501 pac or DCB4E EXORcard here, but I'd like to hear about your design and progress too. Run FLEX on it!!! ;) > We are happy to hear from you. We were starting to worry that something > might have happened to you. Welcome back. Alive and kicking (stubbing toes.) Thanks. ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jul 7 19:56:01 2004 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Ebay: Univac tape reel cases with tubes in them? Message-ID: I thought someone here might have an interest in these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2254407061 I certainly have to wonder about the history behind these cases... Based on the description, the seller has more of them too. -Toth From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Jul 7 20:52:19 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Ebay: Univac tape reel cases with tubes in them? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I thought someone here might have an interest in these: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2254407061 > > I certainly have to wonder about the history behind these cases... > > Based on the description, the seller has more of them too. The tubes look quite uninteresting, but the cases are indeed nice. It seems using tape cases for parts is a common behavior - I have seen it many times elsewhere. In fact, I have a friend that has oodles of parts stuffed away in RCA Bizmac tape cases (extra deep!). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From allain at panix.com Wed Jul 7 20:56:33 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Ebay: Univac tape reel cases with tubes in them? References: Message-ID: <003e01c4648e$cbcd9cc0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I have a friend that has oodles of parts stuffed away > in RCA Bizmac tape cases (extra deep!). In general, photos and documentation for the Bizmac have been of interest to me -- for anyone who has any. John A. From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Jul 7 21:02:31 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Ebay: Univac tape reel cases with tubes in them? In-Reply-To: <003e01c4648e$cbcd9cc0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: > In general, photos and documentation for the Bizmac have > been of interest to me -- for anyone who has any. If I can find it, I'll bring along my (only) Bizmac tape to VCFeast. You can take all of the pictures you want! William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Jul 7 21:03:18 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Fun Fnd While doing Clean-out Message-ID: <00da01c4648f$be162600$a0406b43@66067007> I found about 5 Lisa's doing the clean-out of the two local warehouses here in Houston. All had some type of problem but one and it's running SCO Xenix V3.0 as it's OS. I hope to get all five working again. Anyone know how to read the mfg. date of 4304 ? From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed Jul 7 21:24:36 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: HP & sgi stuff on eBay UK In-Reply-To: <006e01c46466$a8c87dd0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: >>> > Drat, its on the wrong side of the water.. ;-/ That would, of course, imply that it is UNDER the water! From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jul 7 21:34:25 2004 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Sams Photofact collection in Akron Ohio Message-ID: I've been in contact with someone who is looking to get rid of a large collection of Sams Photofact folder sets in Akron Ohio. There are approximately 1900 folder sets in 11 file cabinet drawers. If anyone is interested, contact me off-list and I'll give you his email address. If they were just a little closer, I'd certainly take them, but shipping from Ohio would be expensive ;) -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jul 7 21:58:46 2004 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: FS/FT: Token ring UTP to Fiber media converters Message-ID: I have 8 UTP (RJ45) to Fiber (ST connectors) Token ring media converters I'm looking to either trade for 8 10Base-T to 10Base-FL (ST connectors) or sell for what I've got in them. I bought them for $10.00/ea late last year from someone who claimed they were Ethernet media converters. I picked them up for a local non-profit school, but all the gear I've set up there is Ethernet, so they certainly won't work for the intended application ;) These came without power supplies, but need 9VDC @ 1000ma to 1500ma. I tested one on a 1000ma supply, but I know some media converters used to use 1500ma supplies. I also have 8 9VDC 1000ma power supplies and the correct input connectors available for these units, but if there isn't any interest I'm going to see if I can get credit for them, as they cost me almost as much as the media converters. I put up a photo that I got from the original seller of these units here: http://www.techmonkeys.org/~tothwolf/classiccmp/foc3.jpg -Toth From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jul 7 23:14:01 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Ebay: Univac tape reel cases with tubes in them? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >The tubes look quite uninteresting, but the cases are indeed nice. It >seems using tape cases for parts is a common behavior - I have seen it >many times elsewhere. In fact, I have a friend that has oodles of parts >stuffed away in RCA Bizmac tape cases (extra deep!). The cases look like some that IBM had as well. I've got a couple of them with screws in them at my folks place. I got them when I was a kid at the "Tek Country Store" (Tektronix surplus/junk store). If they are the same kind of cases, they are quite nice (the best I've ever seen). Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jul 8 00:18:32 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: HP-85 stuff References: <003b01c463c3$f6d2d000$0200a8c0@ath700> Message-ID: <007f01c464ab$037aef30$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Bill; When you get the schematic or board artwork done, please let me know. I definitely want one of these! Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Kotaska" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 8:44 PM Subject: Re: HP-85 stuff > Jay wrote on Fri, 2 Jul 2004 15:44:04 > > > I'm looking for the EMS rom for the HP-85A. Or better yet, has any progress > > been made in the project to clone the HP programmable rom module? > > It's possible to build one using standard parts. I'm nearly done with a schematic. > To complete it, I need to borrow a module for a very short time. Does anyone > have one they'd be willing to loan (or willing to ring out a few paths)? > > Bill > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jul 8 00:44:24 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: HP 1000 M series on Ebay Message-ID: <000801c464ae$a0934670$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I noticed this the other day... I'm a bit confused as to it's lineage. First, the M series has a unique keyswitch, unlike the E and F series. In the E & F, the keyswitch is nothing more than a latch to open the front panel. On the M series, the front panel switch is electronic, selecting R (reset memory I think), Off, Standby, On, and perhaps Lock (going from memory). The one on ebay has no such markings on the front panel. This would make me think E & F. But the front panel is clearly from an M, as it only has the ABSTPM registers, not the special register mode (index registers, etc.). And in some of the pictures there are two pictures showing behind the front panel, and to me at least, it looks very non-HP (custom) with regards to the cables coming off the front panel board, and some kinda (non-hp?) board underneath that. Wierd. Not to say it isn't a fully functional M series, but... I have never seen one quite like that. Regards, Jay West From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Thu Jul 8 02:11:12 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Wanted: KLESI-UA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001d01c464ba$c0873e80$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > > P.S. - my RC25 still works, but I could use some carts for my 11/725 > > It may work _now_, but as soon as you load an unkown cartridge you'll > have problems :-) I thought it was a basic feature of the RC25 that as soon as you load *any* cartridge, you'll have problems :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Jul 8 03:09:42 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Wanted: KLESI-UA In-Reply-To: <001d01c464ba$c0873e80$5b01a8c0@flexpc> References: <001d01c464ba$c0873e80$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <20040708080942.GA18221@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Jul 08, 2004 at 08:11:12AM +0100, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > P.S. - my RC25 still works, but I could use some carts for my 11/725 > > > > It may work _now_, but as soon as you load an unkown cartridge you'll > > have problems :-) > > I thought it was a basic feature of the RC25 that as soon as you > load *any* cartridge, you'll have problems :-) While I've heard *plenty* of horror stories with RC25s, I had one for years with no problems (it vanished when the company I was loaning it to went out of business and my "friend" didn't tell me things were going away...) It worked to the day it left the state. I can't say much about the one I have now... I got it late last summer and didn't have time to play with it before I headed South. I'm sure I'll have time to bust it out next year, though. I might even have to rig up a TU-58 replacement and bypass all the tape fiddling that a 11/725 or 11/730 implies. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 08-Jul-2004 08:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -84.3 F (-64.5 C) Windchill -126.5 F (-88.09 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 12.3 kts Grid 018 Barometer 660.2 mb (11380. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Thu Jul 8 03:34:54 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Motorola MVME131 Message-ID: > I have the Motorola "16/32-Bit Microcomputer System Components" databook > (DL127, Revision 1, 1985), but the MVME131 datasheet therein is marked > "Advance Information" and is only seven pages long. It's not much more > than an overview. However, if it will help you, I'll scan and PDF it. That's more than I have at the moment so yes it will help. If anyone else has jumper and I/O pinouts, memory maps etc. that would be of use. Cheers, Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Thu Jul 8 03:53:12 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Motorola MVME131 Message-ID: This board appears to be fitted with the VME130 diagnostic/debugger V3.1 ROM. ANyone have the destructions for this or a similar ROM? (E.g. MVME147 etc) Cheers, Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Thu Jul 8 04:11:36 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: <10407072200.ZM9048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10407072200.ZM9048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.0.20040708100203.05a3c190@pop.freeserve.net> At 22:00 07/07/2004, Pete Turnbull wrote: >I had a more careful look at the pile of terminal servers and hubs >today, and found some more "stuff". I'm surprised I've had so little >response, but if anyone definitely wants any of this, please let me >know before the end of next week or it will be gone (crushed/landfill). > However, if I know for sure that someone wants particular things, I >can hold some of them for a little longer. Hmm... My first thought was "well to save it being scrapped, I'd grab it and eBay it" :-) but having just checked selling prices of 10Mbps hubs ... it'd barely be worth it, especially after adding in a 150 mile round trip, and a day's work.. I don't need them myself, as I've already got spare 10Mbps hubs, a terminal server and a couple of terminals I don't use [yet]..) Does nobody use 10Mbps any more? Rob From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jul 8 04:40:13 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.0.20040708100203.05a3c190@pop.freeserve.net> References: <10407072200.ZM9048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <6.1.1.1.0.20040708100203.05a3c190@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <1089279613.19018.35.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-07-08 at 09:11, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > I don't need them myself, as I've already got spare 10Mbps hubs, a terminal > server and a couple of terminals I don't use [yet]..) > > Does nobody use 10Mbps any more? I do at home - mainly because I keep on finding free 10MBps hubs :-) Seeing as everyone seems to be upgrading to wireless hopefully 100MBps hubs will start going on the scrap pile soon! (Interestingly, there seems to be a huge drive toward wireless at the moment, and people only find out how slow and unreliable it is when it's too late - all I've heard from real installations so far are horror stories and nothing along the lines of "oh yeah, it works fine") Technology - pfft! :-) cheers Jules From cmcnabb at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 07:04:47 2004 From: cmcnabb at gmail.com (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: <1089279613.19018.35.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <10407072200.ZM9048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <6.1.1.1.0.20040708100203.05a3c190@pop.freeserve.net> <1089279613.19018.35.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <145cecdd04070805045b5e593c@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 09:40:13 +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > (Interestingly, there seems to be a huge drive toward wireless at the > moment, and people only find out how slow and unreliable it is when it's > too late - all I've heard from real installations so far are horror > stories and nothing along the lines of "oh yeah, it works fine") > Interesting, because we have LOTS of wireless here at Virginia Tech and oh yeah, it works fine. I'm on a wireless connenction right now. The house I live in is 175 years old and is on the Federal Register of Historic Places. The walls are 16" thick brick - even the interior walls. Because the building is protected, I couldn't run a wired network, so we went with wireless. It works fine, even through the very thick walls and floors. I think that wireless installations that are slow and/or unreliable probably have configuration issues or interference from other sources. From jrice54 at vzavenue.net Thu Jul 8 07:40:55 2004 From: jrice54 at vzavenue.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Wireless networks (was Free stuff (UK) again) In-Reply-To: <145cecdd04070805045b5e593c@mail.gmail.com> References: <10407072200.ZM9048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <6.1.1.1.0.20040708100203.05a3c190@pop.freeserve.net> <1089279613.19018.35.camel@weka.localdomain> <145cecdd04070805045b5e593c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <40ED40D7.7010600@vzavenue.net> In our experience, wireless is fine for casual internet connections, thin clients (terminal services, citrix, rdp) but much too slow for anything that involves any level of data transfer. We sell and support medical software that transfers very large databases. I have lost count of how many offices have implimented wireless networks without checking with us first. They usually scream bloody murder when we inform them they will have to revert back to wired networks. It seems mostly the doctors brother-in-law reccomended wireless. I use wireless 802.11g at home for my kids and wifes internet connections. All of my Unix boxes are wired. Since I'm again an apartment dweller, the mgt company frowns on racks and patch panel installations. Christopher McNabb wrote: > >Interesting, because we have LOTS of wireless here at Virginia Tech >and oh yeah, it works fine. I'm on a wireless connenction right now. > >The house I live in is 175 years old and is on the Federal Register of >Historic Places. The walls are 16" thick brick - even the interior >walls. Because the building is protected, I couldn't run a wired >network, so we went with wireless. It works fine, even through the >very thick walls and floors. > >I think that wireless installations that are slow and/or unreliable >probably have configuration issues or interference from other sources. > > > From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Thu Jul 8 08:01:01 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: <145cecdd04070805045b5e593c@mail.gmail.com> References: <10407072200.ZM9048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <6.1.1.1.0.20040708100203.05a3c190@pop.freeserve.net> <1089279613.19018.35.camel@weka.localdomain> <145cecdd04070805045b5e593c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.0.20040708134509.04d0dad0@pop.freeserve.net> At 13:04 08/07/2004, Christopher McNabb wrote: >On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 09:40:13 +0000, Jules Richardson > wrote: > > (Interestingly, there seems to be a huge drive toward wireless at the > >I think that wireless installations that are slow and/or unreliable >probably have configuration issues or interference from other sources. I have wireless here, but it's only for a single laptop that gets carted all about the house. Everything else is mostly connected by Cat5 Ethernet, at 100Mbps. It works OK... Most dodgy connection I know of was put in at a customer ages back.. they had two separate units on an industrial estate. Line of sight, barely, from back of one, to front of the other, but about 200M distance, with other units and a road and car-park in the way. They HAD been using a direct-dial ISDN link between the units, but it was costing them a fortune. Somebody said they could use wireless LAN, and muggins here had to implement it within a stupid low budget. We ended up sticking an cheap access point on the back of one building, and a USB wireless network card on the front of the other. (they had to go outside, as was metal cladding on the building, but put them in sealed plastic boxes.) It saved them a fortune on phone calls and ISDN rental, and it even worked most of the time... From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu Jul 8 08:31:55 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Wireless networks (was Free stuff (UK) again) In-Reply-To: <40ED40D7.7010600@vzavenue.net> Message-ID: >>> In our experience, wireless is fine for casual internet >>> connections, thin clients (terminal services, citrix, rdp) >>> but much too slow for anything that involves any level of >>> data transfer. We sell and support medical software that >>> transfers very large databases. I have lost count of how >>> many offices have implimented wireless networks without >>> checking with us first. They usually scream bloody murder >>> when we inform them they will have to revert back to wired >>> networks. It seems mostly the doctors brother-in-law >>> reccomended wireless. Wireless communicatios do have significant issues, but can play an invaluable role in many business situations. You are 100% correct that almost every client WILL have problems if they take a heavy traffic application what was designed for high-speed/high-reliability connections and just decide to run it over a wireless connection. On the other hand, I have been involved in the development of a number of applications [including imaging] that moves significant data over a wireless link. The big difference is that these applications were designed from the ground up to work with this type of link. Among other things this required: background processing of all transfers, ability to resume transfers over broken connections, additional steps to secure the data. For my development environment, I am lucky. My core develop [currently 11] run on a 1GB switched [combination fiber and copper] environment. My other fixed machines [currently 5] run on wired 100MB [fully switched] and I am running 802.11g for the mobiles (this is scheduled for an upgrade to Super 802.11g once the market stablizes a bit). David. From cb at mythtech.net Thu Jul 8 10:04:13 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Wireless networks (was Free stuff (UK) again) Message-ID: >In our experience, wireless is fine for casual internet connections, >thin clients (terminal services, citrix, rdp) but much too slow for >anything that involves any level of data transfer. We sell and support >medical software that transfers very large databases. I have lost count >of how many offices have implimented wireless networks without checking >with us first. They usually scream bloody murder when we inform them >they will have to revert back to wired networks. It seems mostly the >doctors brother-in-law reccomended wireless. Its funny that you bring that up. I recently started with a new client, who sells Medical software (patient charting or something to that effect, don't know exactly, just started and I don't have anything to do with the actual software). They are pushing wireless... I just got of a 45 minute phone call trying to get one of the wireless tablets to reconnect to the network. WLAN was up just fine, but it wouldn't allow any IP traffic. And of course this is real fun to debug over the phone, trying to tell a Dr how to check and change the settings on a tablet that has only an onscreen tappable keyboard. I'm dreading my next phone call to him (he had to hang up and deal with patients), as I'm having a bad feeling the WPA key got screwed up... he will go NUTS trying to tap in the 61 character phrase I used as the key! (I couldn't even get it right twice, I had to tap it into wordpad and cut and paste into the WPA key fields). -chris From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Thu Jul 8 12:23:59 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: <1089279613.19018.35.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <001201c46510$5af9f7f0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > Does nobody use 10Mbps any more? Yes. The cable modem I use won't talk to the WGR614 - so I pipe it through a DEMON (Digital Ethernet Multiport Office Network) and all is well! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From pds3 at ix.netcom.com Thu Jul 8 12:25:54 2004 From: pds3 at ix.netcom.com (pds3@ix.netcom.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Wanted: KLESI-UA Message-ID: <20939921.1089307554811.JavaMail.root@gonzo.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Patrick, I have these. Trades are always welcome. I am always looking for: M8186 M8043 M8192 M8578 M7676 M8063 M7840 M7656 M7506 M5977 and most other pdp equipment. Thank you, Shannon Hoskins pds3@ix.netcom.com -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Finnegan Sent: Jul 6, 2004 10:04 PM To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Subject: Wanted: KLESI-UA So, now that I discover I had a TU80, not TU81 controller in my 11/750, I'm looking for a KLESI Unibus card, aka M8739. If anyone has one, I'd be willing to offer some money or a trade of some sort. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jul 8 13:39:28 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: "Rob O'Donnell" "Re: Free stuff (UK) again" (Jul 8, 10:11) References: <10407072200.ZM9048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <6.1.1.1.0.20040708100203.05a3c190@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <10407081939.ZM9967@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 8, 10:11, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > At 22:00 07/07/2004, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > >I had a more careful look at the pile of terminal servers and hubs > >today, and found some more "stuff". > My first thought was "well to save it being scrapped, I'd grab it and eBay > it" :-) but having just checked selling prices of 10Mbps hubs ... it'd > barely be worth it, especially after adding in a 150 mile round trip, and a > day's work.. I don't want to see this stuff on Ebay. If it was going to make money, I'd put it in the Christmas fund, or give the equipment to the local computer recycling project. The reason there are no PCs or other common items is that they're going to an African charity project. > I don't need them myself, as I've already got spare 10Mbps hubs, a terminal > server and a couple of terminals I don't use [yet]..) > > Does nobody use 10Mbps any more? It's not cool. Everyone thinks they need 100Mbps at least, or preferably Gigabit. The fact that their PCs mostly can't keep up with that seems to be immaterial, as is the fact that their web connection is hardly likey to keep up with the PC. On the other hand, many of our students in residences love it -- it's 20 times what most of them get from broadband at home. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jul 8 14:07:03 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: FW: Pimping VCF East... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > Since I'm going to be exhibiting, I'm interested in having a > > lot of people show up for VCF East... general (or at least > > technically inclined) public as well as the "usual suspects". > > I noted that last fall's VCF West didn't show up on Slashdot > > until Saturday at 2 PM. A number of people complained that > > they would have attended with a little more notice. It did > > show up on Wired on Thursday. Should we try to talk it up? > > Is there a reason not to? Everyone should talk about it where ever they go, mentioning it at the oddest moments and to include in completely inappropriate settings :) That being said, a few submissions to Slashdot ought to get it /.'d. Brief mentions to your favoriate (appropriate) (or not) mailing lists and newsgroups would be cool. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jul 8 14:10:50 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: <10407081939.ZM9967@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10407072200.ZM9048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <6.1.1.1.0.20040708100203.05a3c190@pop.freeserve.net> <10407081939.ZM9967@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <1089313849.1929.26.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-07-08 at 18:39, Pete Turnbull wrote: > The reason there are no PCs or other > common items is that they're going to an African charity project. Funny thing is, you'd think that these charity projects need network hardware too, yet I've not heard of anywhere taking it (and cabling - I mean, it all adds up). Presumably infrastructure stuff just comes out of the monetary donations pot. I believe the laws are changing fairly soon here so that it costs money to dispose of unwanted computer equipment. I'm not sure how such charity organisations will be hit when they have to pay to dispose of any bits which are donated and they find to be unsuitable or non-working. > > Does nobody use 10Mbps any more? > > It's not cool. Everyone thinks they need 100Mbps at least, or > preferably Gigabit. The fact that their PCs mostly can't keep up with > that seems to be immaterial, as is the fact that their web connection > is hardly likey to keep up with the PC. Uh huh! Personally I'd find 100Mbit to be handy between a couple of my modern machines just because I shift a lot of large images around - but the 10Mbit serves me quite well otherwise. cheers Jules From Pres at macro-inc.com Thu Jul 8 14:22:40 2004 From: Pres at macro-inc.com (Ed Kelleher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: <001201c46510$5af9f7f0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> References: <1089279613.19018.35.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20040708152200.031818b0@192.168.0.1> At 01:23 PM 7/8/2004, you wrote: > > Does nobody use 10Mbps any more? I didn't know there was a 10Mbps ARCNet? :-) Ed From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jul 8 14:41:26 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: New Finds: Mentis wearable computer! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040630231522.00902270@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jun 2004, Joe R. wrote: > TELTRONICS - INTERACTIVE SOLUTIONS > Mentis, fully functional wearable computer, Intel Pentium 166 MHz MMX, > includes CD capability. "The Mentis system is created and manufactured by > Interactive Solutions, a subsidiary of Teltronics, Inc. Belonging to the > new generation of wearable computers, the Mentis system takes "wearable" to > new dimensions. Multimedia dimensions. With the Mentis solution, users gain > the portability of a laptop, the ruggedness of a wearable computer, and the > full multimedia capabilities of a desktop system. It is a truly universal > computing platform. And, it's ideal for any environment, any occasion where > users need real-time, interactive information, in the field or on the fly. > The Mentis processing unit is little more than an inch thick and measures > 7? by 5? inches. This compact system houses a Pentium?-based, fully > multimedia-equipped, single-board computer." (Home Page) I don't know if I'd be wanting a Pentium strapped to me on a hot day. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jul 8 14:49:45 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes In-Reply-To: <8e33b5c74c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Jul 2004, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Now I just buy the DVDs. Not that you can avoid the advertising on DVDs anymore. I rented one a few months ago that wouldn't even let you skip them! If I wasn't so lazy at that point I would taken it back to the video store and demanded a refund. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Jul 8 15:10:27 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Fwd: Harmonicomputer Available In-Reply-To: <581igHo3c6256S06.1089298442@cmsweb06.cms.usa.net> References: <581igHo3c6256S06.1089298442@cmsweb06.cms.usa.net> Message-ID: <20040708201026.GR10710@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Someone (Cyrus, orangutone@usa.net) over on the SDIY mailing list just posted the message below, in case anyone's interested in obtaining and preserving a Harmonicomputer: So, I have posted to this and other lists, and emailed various vintage gear techs, and nobody is interested in fixing an ailing Deltalab Harmonicomputer. Two techs have suggested I just throw it away, as the parts are hard to find and it would be cheaper to replace than to repair. Does anybody here have any suggestions for a project? This thing has an interesting set of front-panel controls, and it is loaded chock-a-block with a variety of chips, most of which are perfectly good. Garbage or salvage? -Cyrus -- Copyright (C) 2004 R.D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: an All Rights Reserved unnatural belief that we're above Nature & her www.rddavis.org 410-744-4900 other creatures, using dogma to justify such Uncle Fester for President! beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From cb at mythtech.net Thu Jul 8 15:11:50 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes Message-ID: >> Now I just buy the DVDs. > >Not that you can avoid the advertising on DVDs anymore. I rented one a >few months ago that wouldn't even let you skip them! If I wasn't so lazy >at that point I would taken it back to the video store and demanded a >refund. Yeah but remember, DeCSS is pure evil. There could never be a legit reason to want to be able to bypass whatever restrictions the MPAA puts on a DVD. After all, they know exactly what is right for everyone. The worst one I had to deal with was a DVD that played SEVEN freaking trailers before letting me get to the menu. Plus the FBI warning, and a handful of production company animated logos. It took a solid 15 minutes from when I put the DVD in to when I could access the menu and actually play the movie. (IIRC, I think it was "Cheaper by the dozen" that did it, although I could be wrong. I know it was a NetFlix rented movie that I watched about two weeks ago, and that's the one that is popping in my head). -chris From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jul 8 15:03:35 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: Jules Richardson "Re: Free stuff (UK) again" (Jul 8, 9:40) References: <10407072200.ZM9048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <6.1.1.1.0.20040708100203.05a3c190@pop.freeserve.net> <1089279613.19018.35.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <10407082103.ZM9997@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 8, 9:40, Jules Richardson wrote: > (Interestingly, there seems to be a huge drive toward wireless at the > moment, and people only find out how slow and unreliable it is when it's > too late - all I've heard from real installations so far are horror > stories and nothing along the lines of "oh yeah, it works fine") Yeah, we keep getting asked why we're not putting wireless in our residences, offices, and everywhere else.. The fact is that wired is cheaper, especially given the steel in many of the buildings, which limits wireless range. Many people who've tried wireless see 54Mbps and think it's fine; even if they realise that the true throughput is limited to about half that, they've usually never seen the graphs that show what happens when you have multiple clients (for those who don't know, the total useful bandwidth falls dramatically for every client you add; the net effect is that bandwidth per client falls off approximately exponentially). And when we upgraded our Cisco access points it took us a day or so to realise why the range dropped off -- it turns out Cisco made a small miscalculation, and all our tests done with the old firmware were using illegally high power levels. Someone at Cisco hadn't realised the difference between radiated power and EIRP when you have 2.2dB antennae. Wireless is great for some types of point-to-point, casual use, a very small number of users in a small area, or devices that must remain in contact while moving about. Otherwise it sucks. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Jul 8 14:59:14 2004 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: <10407081939.ZM9967@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> (Pete Turnbull's message of "Thu, 8 Jul 2004 19:39:28 +0100 (BST)") References: <10407072200.ZM9048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <6.1.1.1.0.20040708100203.05a3c190@pop.freeserve.net> <10407081939.ZM9967@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200407081959.i68JxFUT048657@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jul 8, 10:11, Rob O'Donnell wrote: >> Does nobody use 10Mbps any more? > > It's not cool. Everyone thinks they need 100Mbps at least, or > preferably Gigabit. The fact that their PCs mostly can't keep up with > that seems to be immaterial, as is the fact that their web connection > is hardly likey to keep up with the PC. On the other hand, many of our > students in residences love it -- it's 20 times what most of them get > from broadband at home. When I had trouble doing NFS and scp and FTP writes to the computers in the workroom from the computers in the living room, I noticed. I did consider pulling out the thin coax that's been there since 1992 and replacing it with twisted pair; I might notice some performance improvement from having 100Mb/s media between the rooms. But then I went to the swap meet and found a US$5 10BaseT hub with a BNC for the coax. Replacing the hub in the living room was therefore cheaper than running new cable, easier as well, and it fixed the problem. Very cool, and 10Mb/s is fast enough to keep me from noticing. -Frank McConnell From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jul 8 15:21:37 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: "Rob O'Donnell" "Re: Free stuff (UK) again" (Jul 8, 14:01) References: <10407072200.ZM9048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <6.1.1.1.0.20040708100203.05a3c190@pop.freeserve.net> <1089279613.19018.35.camel@weka.localdomain> <145cecdd04070805045b5e593c@mail.gmail.com> <6.1.1.1.0.20040708134509.04d0dad0@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <10407082121.ZM10011@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 8, 14:01, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > Most dodgy connection I know of was put in at a customer ages back.. they > had two separate units on an industrial estate. Line of sight, barely, > from back of one, to front of the other, but about 200M distance, with > other units and a road and car-park in the way. You should actually get quite decent results -- much better than 128kbps ISDN -- at that range with even a cheap and cheerful directional antenna on the AP. You can make most APs work in bridge mode (which is what you want for point to point), and a cheap AP would only cost ?60-?100; you can also get cards that can be connected to an external antenna. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jul 8 15:26:38 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Wireless networks (was Free stuff (UK) again) In-Reply-To: James Rice "Re: Wireless networks (was Free stuff (UK) again)" (Jul 8, 7:40) References: <10407072200.ZM9048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <6.1.1.1.0.20040708100203.05a3c190@pop.freeserve.net> <1089279613.19018.35.camel@weka.localdomain> <145cecdd04070805045b5e593c@mail.gmail.com> <40ED40D7.7010600@vzavenue.net> Message-ID: <10407082126.ZM10014@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 8, 7:40, James Rice wrote: > In our experience, wireless is fine for casual internet connections, > thin clients (terminal services, citrix, rdp) but much too slow for > anything that involves any level of data transfer. I agree with that. And I agree with Christopher's observation that it's good in proptected buildings; we use it for that too. > I use wireless 802.11g at home for my kids and wifes internet > connections. All of my Unix boxes are wired. Much the same here. > Christopher McNabb wrote: > > >Interesting, because we have LOTS of wireless here at Virginia Tech > >and oh yeah, it works fine. I'm on a wireless connenction right now. But shared with whom, doing what, at what range? > >I think that wireless installations that are slow and/or unreliable > >probably have configuration issues or interference from other sources. Not necessarily. You won't notice a problem if you use it to read your email, even sharing it with a few other users. When you start doing more serious stuff, the throughput, something like 1-10Mbps shared under optimum conditions for 11g, is very low compared to wired networks, eg 100Mbps switched per port on a Gigabit backbone (which is what most of the campus is). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Jul 8 15:40:32 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: New Finds: Mentis wearable computer! References: Message-ID: <005d01c4652b$d06ab630$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 3:41 PM Subject: Re: New Finds: Mentis wearable computer! > I don't know if I'd be wanting a Pentium strapped to me on a hot day. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > I am sure having a VAX strapped to your back would be much better. :) With all the new technology and die shrinks couldn't you fit a 486 or Pentium into a wristwatch these days? You could then network the unit to a set of eyeglasses via RF for display (overlay). Use a sensor to detect eye movement and position as a "mouse". Only problem would be a useful power source, beats lugging a PDA around. From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Jul 8 16:09:25 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:10 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again References: <10407072200.ZM9048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <6.1.1.1.0.20040708100203.05a3c190@pop.freeserve.net> <10407081939.ZM9967@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200407081959.i68JxFUT048657@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <007b01c4652f$d9423680$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank McConnell" To: Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 3:59 PM Subject: Re: Free stuff (UK) again > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On Jul 8, 10:11, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > >> Does nobody use 10Mbps any more? > > > > It's not cool. Everyone thinks they need 100Mbps at least, or > > preferably Gigabit. The fact that their PCs mostly can't keep up with > > that seems to be immaterial, as is the fact that their web connection > > is hardly likey to keep up with the PC. On the other hand, many of our > > students in residences love it -- it's 20 times what most of them get > > from broadband at home. > > When I had trouble doing NFS and scp and FTP writes to the computers > in the workroom from the computers in the living room, I noticed. I > did consider pulling out the thin coax that's been there since 1992 > and replacing it with twisted pair; I might notice some performance > improvement from having 100Mb/s media between the rooms. But then I > went to the swap meet and found a US$5 10BaseT hub with a BNC for the > coax. Replacing the hub in the living room was therefore cheaper than > running new cable, easier as well, and it fixed the problem. Very > cool, and 10Mb/s is fast enough to keep me from noticing. > > -Frank McConnell > A 10Mb/sec hub is great if you just want to network a few older machines together and don't have allot of concurrent users. I still have one 3com hub in a box on the shelf here somewhere. I switched to 10/100 because moving ISO images was too slow, and once you started the network became very laggy and slow (shared 10Mb/sec). Once you have more then one user , wanted bi-directional ability, and have machines with HD's that can more then saturate a 10mbs hub a 100Mb/sec switch is worth the effort of running cat5 wire. Unless your moving lots of mpegs around the network Gigabit ethernet is a bit overkill these days. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jul 8 16:11:58 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: <10407082103.ZM9997@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10407072200.ZM9048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <6.1.1.1.0.20040708100203.05a3c190@pop.freeserve.net> <1089279613.19018.35.camel@weka.localdomain> <10407082103.ZM9997@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <1089321118.1929.47.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-07-08 at 20:03, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jul 8, 9:40, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > (Interestingly, there seems to be a huge drive toward wireless at the > > moment, and people only find out how slow and unreliable it is when > it's > > too late - all I've heard from real installations so far are horror > > stories and nothing along the lines of "oh yeah, it works fine") > > Yeah, we keep getting asked why we're not putting wireless in our > residences, offices, and everywhere else.. Glad it's not just me :) > The fact is that wired is > cheaper, especially given the steel in many of the buildings, I wonder if it is that buildings in the UK tend to have a lot more steel in the walls than elsewhere in the world? > Wireless is great for some types of point-to-point, casual use, a very > small number of users in a small area, or devices that must remain in > contact while moving about. Otherwise it sucks. Thing the worries me is that a lot of schools seem to be upgrading here, presumably at vast expense, only to find that it doesn't do the job. I'm not actually aware how the prices for wireless compare to Ethernet cards, hubs, cabling etc. so I can't say how much a fresh wireless installation would cost against a more traditional setup. cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jul 8 16:19:35 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: IRIX 5.3 and 'configure' utility... Message-ID: <1089321574.1929.52.camel@weka.localdomain> Ok, I'm starting to get a nice little Indy system together now :-) Any ideas where I can get the 'configure' utility from? (hopefully there's a version that can be made to work with 5.3). Not sure where it is, or if it's buried in some random collection of stuff. cheers, Jules From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jul 8 16:58:07 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: Jules Richardson "Re: Free stuff (UK) again" (Jul 8, 19:10) References: <10407072200.ZM9048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <6.1.1.1.0.20040708100203.05a3c190@pop.freeserve.net> <10407081939.ZM9967@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <1089313849.1929.26.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <10407082258.ZM10137@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 8, 19:10, Jules Richardson wrote: > I believe the laws are changing fairly soon here so that it costs money > to dispose of unwanted computer equipment. I'm not sure how such charity > organisations will be hit when they have to pay to dispose of any bits > which are donated and they find to be unsuitable or non-working. It's hitting now. We have too many monitors (anyone want a not-very-good mnonitor?) and some crap even the charities don't want. Therefore we have a skip (dumpster) outside. In years past, we had an ordinary skip once every year or two -- the "topless" sort you see full of building rubble and garden refuse -- and CompServ staff used to place things in it carefully and watch people removing things from it to reuse. This was a good thing; it kept the audience amused, it preserved some interesting "stuff", it let things be recycled instead of putting them in landfill, and it saved a lot of space in the skip so CompServ only had to hire one instead of two :-) On one occasion, when I was still finishing my degree up the hill at CompSci, my tutor (now a senior professor), his colleague, myself and two other students , emptied the entire skip, spread the contents across the car park, and spent a couple of hours sorting it. We had quite a large audience most of the time. Now, alas, that's illegal. There are too many regulations about disposal of electrical waste, electrical safety testing, and liabilities, so we are required to have a totally enclosed skip that's padlocked. Nowadays we would have to rely on the grapevine to let interested parties know in advance so they can intercept items of interest between the back door and the skip. Not that we would be so irresponsible as to allow any dangerous items, eg terminal servers, hubs, or PCs to go astray, of course. Bringing this back to what Jules mentioned specifically, we're not allowed to put monitors in the skip. They have to go somewhere else to be properly disposed of, at ?15 a pop (pun intended). > Uh huh! Personally I'd find 100Mbit to be handy between a couple of my > modern machines just because I shift a lot of large images around - but > the 10Mbit serves me quite well otherwise. Same here. Indeed, some of the older machines in my collection that do have 100baseTX (or in a couple of cases 100baseFX, 100Mbps FDDI, or 155Mbps ATM) can't drive the network at much more than 15-20Mbps. And since only a couple of devices at home use wireless, 802.11g is more than adequate for any practical purpose. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jul 8 17:33:04 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: Jules Richardson "Re: Free stuff (UK) again" (Jul 8, 21:11) References: <10407072200.ZM9048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <6.1.1.1.0.20040708100203.05a3c190@pop.freeserve.net> <1089279613.19018.35.camel@weka.localdomain> <10407082103.ZM9997@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <1089321118.1929.47.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <10407082333.ZM10158@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 8, 21:11, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Thu, 2004-07-08 at 20:03, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Yeah, we keep getting asked why we're not putting wireless in our > > residences, offices, and everywhere else.. > > Glad it's not just me :) > > > The fact is that wired is > > cheaper, especially given the steel in many of the buildings, > > I wonder if it is that buildings in the UK tend to have a lot more steel > in the walls than elsewhere in the world? No, I don't think so :-) We had a guy from Intel here a few weeks ago, talking about Centrino technology, and wireless is a key part of that. He was someone senior from EMEA marketing but was well genned-up technically, and was quite open about some of the limitations nd what people had found in practice. > Thing the worries me is that a lot of schools seem to be upgrading here, > presumably at vast expense, only to find that it doesn't do the job. Well, it depends what the job is, how many users there are simultaneously, and so on. If you're talking about a primary school where there's one incoming 512kbps broadband line, only a few computers, and they get moved about, it might make sense to put in minimal cabling to a couple of staff rooms, and use wireless for the rest. If you're talking about our offices and study bedrooms, where there will be lots of simultaneous users (and students generate an amazing amount of traffic), wiring is cheaper. We did the study. Twice. Don't forget you need an infrastructure to support the wireless APs. In fact, I came across a paper by one of the members of the 802.whatever committe which indicated that in many contexts, wireless mean more infrastructure, not less (because of the number of APs, power points or power-over-Ethernet, etc etc, and you still need the backbone and the fibre between buildings). > I'm not actually aware how the prices for wireless compare to Ethernet > cards, hubs, cabling etc. so I can't say how much a fresh wireless > installation would cost against a more traditional setup. Depends on the facilities and bandwidth you need. We get a very good deal on certain types of switches, and cabling isn't very expensive per outlet if it's done in harmony with other works. On the other hand, to use wireless for the student network, we'd need an awful lot of APs, still need cable to get to them, fibre between the buildings, and although the switches would be fewer in number, we'd need a lot of PoE ports which cost money, and we'd be using Cisco Aironet 1200s or similar (I forget what the model number is for the 11a/b/g version), with full management facilites, VLAN support, panel antennae, etc. We get a really good price on those too, but they still cost several times as much as SOHO APs and either don't give a great bandwidth or don't cover a large number of users. Plus it takes just one oik with his own AP (which we ban, for reasons that have to do with experience :-)) to disrupt our nicely laid out coverage. This is getting a bit off-topic :-) Wireless may be classic, but I'm not sure wireless ethernet is ;-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From sastevens at earthlink.net Thu Jul 8 18:12:20 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.0.20040708134509.04d0dad0@pop.freeserve.net> References: <10407072200.ZM9048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <6.1.1.1.0.20040708100203.05a3c190@pop.freeserve.net> <1089279613.19018.35.camel@weka.localdomain> <145cecdd04070805045b5e593c@mail.gmail.com> <6.1.1.1.0.20040708134509.04d0dad0@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <20040708181220.6b369bb6.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 14:01:01 +0100 "Rob O'Donnell" wrote: > At 13:04 08/07/2004, Christopher McNabb wrote: > > >On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 09:40:13 +0000, Jules Richardson > > wrote: > > > (Interestingly, there seems to be a huge drive toward wireless at > > > the > > > >I think that wireless installations that are slow and/or unreliable > >probably have configuration issues or interference from other > >sources. > > > I have wireless here, but it's only for a single laptop that gets > carted all about the house. Everything else is mostly connected by > Cat5 Ethernet, at 100Mbps. It works OK... > My wireless network here really exists only because it was a 'why not?' proposition recently. The cheap Linksys router I was using to share my DSL connection died for some reason, and it turned out to be just as cheap to buy one now with a wireless port on it. At the same time I bought the cheapest wireless card I could find. I connect an almost on-topic (quite old) Toshiba 486 laptop with it for portable web access. Wireless gateways are so cheap that for me one ended up being a free add-in. From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Thu Jul 8 18:17:48 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: <10407081939.ZM9967@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10407072200.ZM9048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <6.1.1.1.0.20040708100203.05a3c190@pop.freeserve.net> <10407081939.ZM9967@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.0.20040709001305.039862c0@pop.freeserve.net> At 19:39 08/07/2004, Pete Turnbull wrote: >I don't want to see this stuff on Ebay. If it was going to make money, >I'd put it in the Christmas fund, or give the equipment to the local >computer recycling project. The reason there are no PCs or other >common items is that they're going to an African charity project. I did actually think at the time that were it to fetch anything, I'd donate most of the cash back to some worthy cause, given the source of the parts, however since they wouldn't, I neglected to mention that! > > I don't need them myself, as I've already got spare 10Mbps hubs, a >terminal > > server and a couple of terminals I don't use [yet]..) > > > > Does nobody use 10Mbps any more? > >It's not cool. Everyone thinks they need 100Mbps at least, or >preferably Gigabit. The fact that their PCs mostly can't keep up with >that seems to be immaterial, as is the fact that their web connection >is hardly likey to keep up with the PC. true enough .. it's not usually the local network that causes the slow downs.. we used to put in 10Mbps hubs at some customer remote sites, because all traffic ended up down a 64Kbs leased line or ADSL based VPN (256K max uplink) so it made not a blind bit of difference what speed the local LAN ran at. > On the other hand, many of our >students in residences love it -- it's 20 times what most of them get >from broadband at home. 2.5Mbps here .. (2M + 512K) :-) Rob From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Thu Jul 8 18:12:29 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: <001201c46510$5af9f7f0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> References: <001201c46510$5af9f7f0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <40EDD4DD.3080402@ntlworld.com> Antonio Carlini wrote: >>Does nobody use 10Mbps any more? I have 5 vaxen and a laserjet on bnc and a couple of ipx's on a nice 10Mbps switch. I would upgrade but I think it would cost far to much money I haven't seen any qbus or turbochannel ethernet options for sale anyware. Dan From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Thu Jul 8 18:25:51 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: <40EDD4DD.3080402@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <006001c46542$e853f600$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > Antonio Carlini wrote: > >>Does nobody use 10Mbps any more? No I didn't :-) Someone else wrote that, I merely replied in the affirmative! > I have 5 vaxen and a laserjet on bnc and a couple of ipx's on a nice > 10Mbps switch. I would upgrade but I think it would cost far to much > money I haven't seen any qbus or turbochannel ethernet > options for sale > anyware. TC ones are indeed quite rare. But DELQAs are quite often to be seen on ePay (don't look now - there's one up for $99!). If I ever come across my box of Qbus bits I'll keep you in mind and see if there's a DELQA in there. I'm not wure why you would want to upgrade your kit anyway. The VAXstation and MicroVAX range are all limited to 10Mb ethernet. Even the TC cards I know of (i.e. are supported) are 10Mb. And mostly they have trouble driving 10MB to the limit! The IPXs are no better AFAIK :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 8 17:52:27 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.0.20040708100203.05a3c190@pop.freeserve.net> from "Rob O'Donnell" at Jul 8, 4 10:11:36 am Message-ID: > Does nobody use 10Mbps any more? I do. Some of my machines have 10Mbps ethernet built-in, others have it on expansion cards. I don't think any of my machines have enough bus bandwidth to support anything faster. But I have a fair ammount of network hardware (I use thinwire coax, it's simpler than twisted pair), and York is rather a long way to go and collect anything.. -tony From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Thu Jul 8 18:48:54 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: <006001c46542$e853f600$5b01a8c0@flexpc> References: <006001c46542$e853f600$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <40EDDD66.9090206@ntlworld.com> > I'm not wure why you would want to upgrade > your kit anyway. The VAXstation and MicroVAX > range are all limited to 10Mb ethernet. Even > the TC cards I know of (i.e. are supported) > are 10Mb. And mostly they have trouble > driving 10MB to the limit! The IPXs > are no better AFAIK :-) > > Antonio > Only to speed up copying stuff between machines, but I meant upgrading to 100Mbps which I know you can get for qbus but I'm not sure about turbochannel. It would probably be cheaper to replace the machines but I'm quite happy with them. Dan From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Jul 8 05:25:01 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.0.20040708100203.05a3c190@pop.freeserve.net> References: <10407072200.ZM9048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <6.1.1.1.0.20040708100203.05a3c190@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <20040708102501.GA28695@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Jul 08, 2004 at 10:11:36AM +0100, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > Does nobody use 10Mbps any more? I certainly do - I don't have any way to put 100BaseT NICs in an Amiga, nor a PDP-11 or VAX. What I use is a 10BaseT hub with AUI and 10Base2 for all my old stuff, fed into a single switch port on a 100BaseT switch. Since I happen to have a 100% Netgear infrastructure at home, the 10BaseT hub is a EN108 (not an EN108TP), and the switch is a FS108. I also have an FE104 4-port 100BaseT-only hub that I occasionally use in the other room if I need to have more than one machine on that drop. They've been bulletproof for many years with one exception - the 1.0A +5V inline switcher PSU for the FS108 died last year. Ded. Ded. Ded. But to a certain extent, those are disposable. An external ZIP drive PSU works fine, and with the number of dead ZIP drives I've seen, PSUs for them aren't hard to come by. One of these days, I'll pick up an inexpensive HP or Cabletron box at a hamfest that has a 10BaseFL port - they were under $50 last time I was at Dayton, and there were literally pallets of them. I've been using the AUI port on the EN108 to drive a 10BaseFL transceiever to light the the fiber that goes down to the basement for the EPROM burner (originally a Commodore Colt (XT-clone), now a Compaq 286 laptop w/docking station - both ISA, so no 100BaseT) and the VAX 8200 w/DEBNT. So... I have probably as many 10BaseT nodes on my network at home as I have 100BaseT nodes. But I don't need to import a spare hub from Britain. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 08-Jul-2004 10:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -76.0 F (-60.1 C) Windchill -120.2 F (-84.59 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 15.8 kts Grid 005 Barometer 660.9 mb (11355. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From MGemeny at pgcps.org Thu Jul 8 19:47:07 2004 From: MGemeny at pgcps.org (Mike Gemeny) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: HP Software License Update. Message-ID: Some people at Hewlett Packard are willing to explore an updated "Non-Commercial Technology Enthusiast Software License" for older software products. As a part of this process your input is encouraged. (By posting to the list HP would be able to read your comments directly from the list archive, should they choose.) Information on existing licenses is encouraged. (Existing DEC licenses, etc.) This license is intended to add to existing Licenses and not to replace them. Although, your input in this regard is also encouraged. (If you have problems this would be a good time to get them out on the table.) Just as HP is willing to look at this issue from our prospective, we would ask that you also try to look at this issue from HP's prospective. (Don't just ask for the moon.) We would also like to ask if anyone knows the date of release of the last version of HP1000 RTE and also if anyone may know the date of the End-Of-Life of the HP1000 product line. (Yes it would seem that HP was threatening to end-of-life the HP1000 as early as the late 70's or early 80's but we're looking for the final end-of-life date.) Some people at HP are considering a recomendation for a license to software that is older than some age, and/or products that were at end-of-life more than some number of years ago. (The desire seems to be to exclude newer software such as HP3000 MPE from the license. The license would include software such as HP2000 Access. Inclusion of software such as HP1000 RTE is to-be-determined) Thanks in advance for all of the thoughtful input that this thread is sure to attract. Mike Gemeny From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jul 8 20:56:24 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: HP Software License Update. References: Message-ID: <000f01c46557$f0b6f9e0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Right now I am doing the most spirited "Snoopy happy dance" you can possibly imagine :) Let me get some coherent thoughts together and I'll post more later. Sorry, just couldn't contain the glee :) Jay West From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jul 8 20:59:43 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: HP Software License Update. In-Reply-To: <000f01c46557$f0b6f9e0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: > Right now I am doing the most spirited "Snoopy happy dance" you can possibly > imagine :) > > Let me get some coherent thoughts together and I'll post more later. Sorry, > just couldn't contain the glee :) VCFeast should have a "Snoopy happy dance" contest. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Jul 8 21:26:47 2004 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: HP Software License Update. In-Reply-To: (Mike Gemeny's message of "Thu, 8 Jul 2004 20:47:07 -0400") References: Message-ID: <200407090226.i692QlDC052553@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Mike Gemeny" wrote: > We would also like to ask if anyone knows the date of release of the > last version of HP1000 RTE and also if anyone may know the date of > the End-Of-Life of the HP1000 product line. (Yes it would seem that > HP was threatening to end-of-life the HP1000 as early as the late > 70's or early 80's but we're looking for the final end-of-life > date.) Well, there's end of sales life and end of support life, and if you're thinking about the latter, we're not there yet. suggests that HP was thinking to keep RTE-A on the price list as late as 01 Oct 2000 and makes reference to a planned discontinuance of the 1000 product line in 2000. claims that HP1000 products were removed from the price list on 01 Nov 2000. Click around a bit, you'll find that some of the A-series hardware doesn't reach end of support until 01 Nov 2005. Somewhere or other I have some binders of project plans where HP was trying to get The Wollongong Group interested in doing a sort of Unix emulation around RTE-A (I think), with the game plan being to encourage the RTE users to migrate to a Unix API so HP could get them to make a smooth transition to HP-UX. These things would be from the early-mid-1980s I think. > Some people at HP are considering a recomendation for a license to > software that is older than some age, and/or products that were at > end-of-life more than some number of years ago. (The desire seems to > be to exclude newer software such as HP3000 MPE from the license. The > license would include software such as HP2000 Access. Inclusion of > software such as HP1000 RTE is to-be-determined) How about a license for software for something really obscure from the late 1970s, the HP 300 "Amigo"? Would HP consider such a license for MPE for some or all of the "classic" 16-bit HP3000 architectures that were contemporary with the HP2000's product life? How about for add-on products to which HP has the right to license and distribute without requiring any royalty payments? A cutoff of release dates before 01 Jan 1986 could be very interesting. That could permit the use of MPE IV and MPE V/R (2548), and I think it may be in or close to the age range under consideration as well as before the PA-RISC announcement. HP may also remember that in late 1999 they made a Y2K-safe release of MPE V/E (really two releases and a patch set) available to classic 3000 users without charge and without requiring an existing or even previous software support agreement. It included a full Platform 3P SUBSYS tape too, meaning it had all the add-on products that HP had for the things. If HP could see their way to doing that with media then, why not license paperwork now? I for one will be very disappointed if HP continues to offer OpenVMS hobbyist licenses while not offering licenses for classic-3000 MPE. -Frank McConnell From aek at spies.com Thu Jul 8 21:56:04 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Software License Update. Message-ID: <20040709025604.4C0F03D08@spies.com> Some people at Hewlett Packard are willing to explore an updated "Non-Commercial Technology Enthusiast Software License" for older software products. == This is wonderful news. == We would also like to ask if anyone knows the date of release of the last version of HP1000 RTE == As of a few months ago, this was still on HP's web site. There has also been a release of RTE 6 to Interex (w/o sources though) RTE for the A series is a very different beast, and I beleive that was what HP was supporting up until a few years ago. There were many, many versions before that. I'd also be interested in their feelings about software from non-HP product lines that they've purchased. Apollo DOMAIN, and the various TI 9xx/1500/Explorer would also nice to be released. From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Thu Jul 8 22:28:46 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: HP Software License Update. References: Message-ID: <40EE10EE.E214F8FA@compsys.to> >Mike Gemeny wrote: > Some people at Hewlett Packard are willing to explore an updated "Non-Commercial > Technology Enthusiast Software License" for older software products. > > As a part of this process your input is encouraged. (By posting to the list HP would > be able to read your comments directly from the list archive, should they choose.) > > Information on existing licenses is encouraged. (Existing DEC licenses, etc.) > This license is intended to add to existing Licenses and not to replace them. > Although, your input in this regard is also encouraged. (If you have problems > this would be a good time to get them out on the table.) > > Just as HP is willing to look at this issue from our prospective, we would ask that > you also try to look at this issue from HP's prospective. (Don't just ask for the moon.) > > We would also like to ask if anyone knows the date of release of the last version of > HP1000 RTE and also if anyone may know the date of the End-Of-Life of the HP1000 > product line. (Yes it would seem that HP was threatening to end-of-life the HP1000 > as early as the late 70's or early 80's but we're looking for the final end-of-life date.) > > Some people at HP are considering a recomendation for a license to software that is older > than some age, and/or products that were at end-of-life more than some number of years ago. > (The desire seems to be to exclude newer software such as HP3000 MPE from the license. The license > would include software such as HP2000 Access. Inclusion of software such as HP1000 RTE > is to-be-determined) > > Thanks in advance for all of the thoughtful input that this thread is sure to attract. > > Mike Gemeny Jerome Fine replies: As far as I can understand, for the PDP-11 software, the Mentec hobby license allows certain old versions (e.g. V05.03 of RT-11) to be used under an emulator from DEC. In practice, this has been extended to mean that SIMH is allowed as well. However, it is possible, even likely, that Mentec still sells sufficient RSX-11 licenses and software to commercial users to still make a small profit. So perhaps HP may not wish to include the latest versions of RSX-11 software. As for RT-11, even the last version, V05.07, is now almost 6 years old and the second last version, V05.06, will be 12 years old next month. While I would certainly suggest that 12 years is more than sufficient (especially considering that V05.06 is not Y2K compliant), perhaps 6 years old is also long enough. As a compromise, perhaps 10 years old could be the dividing line. Also, there are still many bugs in RT-11 with a few able to crash RT-11 when they occur - see 2nd last paragraph. On the other hand, since current versions of VMS are available to hobby users, I can't understand why there might be a problem with the October 1998 V05.07 release of RT-11. As for support, media and DOCs, OBVIOUSLY there would be NONE! However, at least for RT-11, that would likely NOT be a problem. As far as I can understand, just let the hobby (NON-COMMERCIAL) users manage by themselves. Just change the wording of the Mentec hobby license to allow V05.07 and remove the restriction on what hardware or emulator is used. Also, by this time, include the source code distributions so that the hobby users can support themselves in a reasonable manner. These are my first thoughts and are probably insufficient. Some might be too extensive, however, unless Mentec is still making a profit on RT-11 and RSTS/E, I can't see that opening up hobby to to be unlimited would be a problem since I doubt that even reputable commercial users outside of the US and Europe are paying Mentec anything in any case. And reputable commercial users in the US and Europe will likely continue to pay Mentec regardless, although I really doubt that there are any left anywhere at this point for additional sites for RT-11 and RSTS/E. BUT, with hobby users having access to these operating systems, it might be possible that Mentec might make some additional sales due to having support from hobby users, especially to get those bugs in RT-11 fixed as well as to add enhancements to RT-11 if specific needs arise. Just a few thoughts. Can anyone else also comment? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu Jul 8 22:57:33 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: The world is going to pieces... In-Reply-To: <40EE10EE.E214F8FA@compsys.to> Message-ID: AARGH... Just looked on e-bay. There are a large number of pdp-8 items listed by a single vendor. Looks like 1 or more /m systems has been disassembled. Feel like I am watching humpty-dumpty, will the pieces ever get back together again...... Perchance we could all start a mass e-mail campaign against the seller...... From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Jul 8 23:43:26 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: The world is going to pieces... In-Reply-To: References: <40EE10EE.E214F8FA@compsys.to> Message-ID: <20040709044326.GA18421@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Jul 08, 2004 at 11:57:33PM -0400, David V. Corbin wrote: > AARGH... Just looked on e-bay. There are a large number of pdp-8 items > listed by a single vendor. Looks like 1 or more /m systems has been > disassembled. Feel like I am watching humpty-dumpty, will the pieces ever > get back together again...... Yoiks! I guess if I _really_ needed one part, that's an easy way to get one, but it's still pretty horrifying. > Perchance we could all start a mass e-mail campaign against the seller...... What I'm curious about is who is 'di-sales'? They seem to have bid up everything. They also ran up the price on a GIGI terminal I was bidding on (it was at $5 when I found it). I let things go (the auction is about to end) because I don't need one quite as badly as other people seem to want it. All I really wanted it for was to run some of the GIGI-aware apps from my TOPS-20 "box". -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 09-Jul-2004 04:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -82.7 F (-63.7 C) Windchill -113.7 F (-81 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 6.4 kts Grid 051 Barometer 666.3 mb (11147. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jul 9 01:08:46 2004 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: The world is going to pieces... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > AARGH... Just looked on e-bay. There are a large number of pdp-8 items > listed by a single vendor. Looks like 1 or more /m systems has been > disassembled. Feel like I am watching humpty-dumpty, will the pieces > ever get back together again...... > > Perchance we could all start a mass e-mail campaign against the > seller...... I did a reassembly of a vintage console radio after buying all the parts off ebay and then the cabinet directly from the (local) seller... The seller genuinely had no idea of what the thing was worth (and I may have actually paid too much for it anyway). I still haven't had the time to restore the electronics of that radio, but it is now mostly reassembled :) I hesitate in telling the actual story of why it was sold as parts, as it might horrify some folks. -Toth From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Fri Jul 9 01:57:52 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: <10407082121.ZM10011@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10407072200.ZM9048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <6.1.1.1.0.20040708100203.05a3c190@pop.freeserve.net> <1089279613.19018.35.camel@weka.localdomain> <145cecdd04070805045b5e593c@mail.gmail.com> <6.1.1.1.0.20040708134509.04d0dad0@pop.freeserve.net> <10407082121.ZM10011@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.0.20040709074542.060544e0@pop.freeserve.net> At 21:21 08/07/2004, Pete Turnbull wrote: >On Jul 8, 14:01, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > > > Most dodgy connection I know of was put in at a customer ages back.. >they > > had two separate units on an industrial estate. Line of sight, >barely, > > from back of one, to front of the other, but about 200M distance, >with > > other units and a road and car-park in the way. > >You should actually get quite decent results -- much better than >128kbps ISDN -- at that range with even a cheap and cheerful >directional antenna on the AP. You can make most APs work in bridge >mode (which is what you want for point to point), and a cheap AP would >only cost ?60-?100; you can also get cards that can be connected to an >external antenna. Oh when it was working, it was fine, and certainly a lot faster than the ISDN. Problem was, we'd never done any wireless before, I was given the job as: "go there now to fit it; best go pc world for the bits as we've not got any". and not having had a chance to look into it and source some decent kit, all I could find in locally available retail stores was some cheap Belkin access point that wouldn't work in bridge mode (at least, I couldn't get it to, at the time.) And certainly no directional antennas to be seen! The "line of sight" was also very tight ... imagine: (*=wireless) .----- *| unit |__ |__ | `--- == road == -------. ___| ___| unit __|* | -------' If you extended the back of one unit, and the front of the other, was about 1/2 meter gap. All walls were sheet metal clad. (couldn't get ANY signal with the A/P inside and me with the laptop outside 1 meter away from it.) I imagine there were lots of reflections and suchlike as the signal travelled alongside these walls.. From quapla at groenenberg.net Fri Jul 9 02:03:24 2004 From: quapla at groenenberg.net (quapla@groenenberg.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: <10407082258.ZM10137@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10407072200.ZM9048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <6.1.1.1.0.20040708100203.05a3c190@pop.freeserve.net> <10407081939.ZM9967@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <1089313849.1929.26.camel@weka.localdomain> <10407082258.ZM10137@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <56625.192.18.200.10.1089356604.squirrel@192.18.200.10> On Do, 8 juli, 2004 11:58 pm, Pete Turnbull zei: > Now, alas, that's illegal. There are too many regulations about > disposal of electrical waste, electrical safety testing, and > liabilities, so we are required to have a totally enclosed skip that's > padlocked. Nowadays we would have to rely on the grapevine to let > interested parties know in advance so they can intercept items of > interest between the back door and the skip. Not that we would be so > irresponsible as to allow any dangerous items, eg terminal servers, > hubs, or PCs to go astray, of course. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull Some 10 years ago when it was time to get rid of the old equipment from the offices, they did send an email around telling that it was on display and everybody could buy it. Proces varied from a few guilders ($0.50) for some boxes of floppies to about a hundred guilders ($50) for a Apple laserwriter or Sun IPX. You should have seen the mass of employees waiting more than half an hour outside waiting to get in. Among the stuff that did not go was a complete FDDI setup (sorry Pete) we once used as a test environment for the new network planned at that time. Ed From Arno_1983 at gmx.de Fri Jul 9 06:02:41 2004 From: Arno_1983 at gmx.de (Arno Kletzander) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Transport arrangement needed UK -> GER Message-ID: <15440.1089370961@www35.gmx.net> Hello everybody, along with Mr. Hans Pufal, I was among those interested in Pete Turnbull's recent offer of network/terminal server equipment. However, the stuff needs to disappear fairly quickly from where it is now - i.e. a definitive arrangement has to be made until 23rd of July and pickup would have to take place before the end of the month. And here the fun begins: I have no chance to go abroad and get it in time as I'll be doing my 2nd Term Electrical Engineering testpapers in late July/early August. Just about no way around that. Pete and I have worked out that I should ask here if anybody from the UK (preferably near York) would go on holiday on the Continent this summer (passing through Southern Germany), or vice versa, and could be persuaded to collect and drop off the equipment in question. In return I offer lunch/dinner, drinks and if wanted a financial contribution for fuel. >From what it looks like by now, the cargo will be the following: (most certainly one each, max. two) Emulex P4000 terminal server w/ bits and pieces/cables) Connection panel for above (rackmount 2U high) 3Com Linkbuilder FMS II 24-port hub (rackmount 1U high) 3Com SuperStack II PS 40 24-port hub (rackmount 1U high) (small stuff) assorted plugins for above hubs AUI/10baseT-Microtransceivers (perhaps) one terminal DEC VT220, 420, or 510. To Mr. Hans Pufal: I've been told that you are already making a transport arrangement for the stuff you want. If nobody hits my area closer (Nuremberg, southern Germany) it has been suggested that I ask if you could have the additional material transported to France, which is at least a bit nearer for me to come by and pick it up later this summer. Please CC any answers to Peter as well; I don't know if it's useful to answer on-list, I'd rather not. Thanks in advance -- Arno Kletzander Stud. Hilfskraft Informatik Sammlung Erlangen www.iser.uni-erlangen.de "Sie haben neue Mails!" - Die GMX Toolbar informiert Sie beim Surfen! Jetzt aktivieren unter http://www.gmx.net/info From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Fri Jul 9 06:03:09 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Transport arrangement needed UK -> GER In-Reply-To: <15440.1089370961@www35.gmx.net> References: <15440.1089370961@www35.gmx.net> Message-ID: <40EE7B6D.10203@ntlworld.com> I read this on comp.sys.dec today, it might solve your transport problem From: Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply (helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de) Subject: looking for DEC stuff in Denmark, Sweden, Germany, England Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec Date: 2004-07-03 07:06:05 PST I will be travelling this summer in July and August and am looking for used DEC equipment in Germany (24--25 July or in August), Denmark (19, 25, 26 July or 01 August), Sweden (19 July--01 August) or England (9--12 August). I can collect it from wherever it is now. I am looking for desktop VAX machines, VAXstation 4000 or better, any desktop (or minitower) ALPHA, SBB disks (wide and narrow), BA356 boxes (I have enough BA350), BA353 boxes (pizza box), SBB DLT drives, "internal" DLT drives, SCSI CD-ROM drives, big colour monitors, switches, cables (MMJ, SCSI, monitor, RJ45 (thinwire ethernet). I will check email again on Sunday 18 July! After that, I will be travelling again, so please provide a telephone number (I speak English, German and Swedish but not Danish!) and good directions as well as the times I could collect; I will ring you a day or two before and confirm things. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jul 9 10:27:41 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: NCD 88k Xterminals available (Cambridge, UK) Message-ID: <1089386861.2816.91.camel@weka.localdomain> I saved three NCD 88K Xterminals from the tip earlier (some of those mentioned on here last week). Or at least gave them a stay of execution - I can't hang onto them for more than a few days unfortunately. Now, someone on here said they might be interested in an xterm if there were any keyboards with them. Only prob is I've gone and lost your email, whoops. Shout if you read this. These NCD's work with standard PC keyboards (PS/2 connector) and mice (9 pin D-type) - I know they do as they're the same model as I have already. Anyway, two of the machines have coax / AUI Ethernet, and one has twisted pair / AUI. They all have memory and boot ROMs. The only annoying thing about them is they use DA26 connectors for video (I soldered a trailing video lead directly onto the board of mine with a VGA connector on the end - messy but chances of finding a scrap DA26 to use were around zero). The DA26 side of things means I can't test them, but the fans on them work as do the power LEDs, so no reason to suspect them being bad. I almost certainly have all of the info archived locally that used to be on NCD's site - including the video connector pinout and the Xncd19c server boot image. >From memory they run at 1024x768 resolution with 8-bit colour. Oh, they're about the same dimensions as a NeXT slab. Spray them black, and you'd almost be fooled into thinking they were! (given they were heading for the tip, I wouldn't be offended if people took them to put PC boards into in order to make firewalls, mp3 jukeboxes etc. - although other list members might :) Anyone want? I can't really keep them longer than a week unless I know they have homes though. cheers Jules From allain at panix.com Fri Jul 9 11:42:08 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: NCD 88k Xterminals available (Cambridge, UK) References: <1089386861.2816.91.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <045f01c465d3$ad869640$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> An alternate method is to get an assemblable HD15 connector, and build it keeping the headshell off of it. Can be a little fragile if you don't then add epoxy when finished. Might want to grind off half of the headshell and use that too. Meanwhile, somebody comes up with a source of DA26's... > Anyone want? I can't really keep them longer than a > week unless I know they have homes though. Don't these require some sort of netboot image to work? John A. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jul 9 11:59:34 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: NCD 88k Xterminals available (Cambridge, UK) In-Reply-To: <045f01c465d3$ad869640$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <1089386861.2816.91.camel@weka.localdomain> <045f01c465d3$ad869640$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <1089392374.2816.121.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-07-09 at 16:42, John Allain wrote: > Meanwhile, somebody comes up with a source of DA26's... It's always the way :-) > > Anyone want? I can't really keep them longer than a > > week unless I know they have homes though. > > Don't these require some sort of netboot image to work? I can't remember using anything other than the xncd19c file with mine (I've just checked and I do still have it - it also seems to be on the web in a few places). From memory I set up a Linux TFTP server and hosted the image on that. That was enough to get an XDM login window up and from there things worked just as though I was sitting at the Linux machine itself. Pretty nifty - as I said it was just lack of audio support that really stopped me from using the terminal seriously. :-( cheers Jules From allain at panix.com Fri Jul 9 12:07:30 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: FW: Pimping VCF East... References: Message-ID: <04f201c465d7$39389500$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Everyone should talk about it where ever they go, mentioning it at > the oddest moments and to include in completely inappropriate > settings :) Have a flyer PDF that I can use? A hackable one from another time/place might help too. John A. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jul 9 11:57:51 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: <40EDDD66.9090206@ntlworld.com> References: <006001c46542$e853f600$5b01a8c0@flexpc> <40EDDD66.9090206@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <20040709185751.0a14fabe.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 00:48:54 +0100 Dan Williams wrote: > Only to speed up copying stuff between machines, but I meant upgrading > to 100Mbps which I know you can get for qbus but I'm not sure about > turbochannel. It would probably be cheaper to replace the machines but > I'm quite happy with them. FDDI. 100 MBit/s, no collisions and there are QBus (Yes!) and TC cards. I have a DEFQA in my VAX 4000-400 and a DEFTA in my DEC 3000-300X. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Jul 9 13:00:57 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again References: <006001c46542$e853f600$5b01a8c0@flexpc> <40EDDD66.9090206@ntlworld.com> <20040709185751.0a14fabe.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <16622.56665.709698.96038@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jochen" == Jochen Kunz writes: Jochen> On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 00:48:54 +0100 Dan Williams Jochen> wrote: >> Only to speed up copying stuff between machines, but I meant >> upgrading to 100Mbps which I know you can get for qbus but I'm not >> sure about turbochannel. It would probably be cheaper to replace >> the machines but I'm quite happy with them. Jochen> FDDI. 100 MBit/s, no collisions and there are QBus (Yes!) and Jochen> TC cards. I have a DEFQA in my VAX 4000-400 and a DEFTA in Jochen> my DEC 3000-300X. -- Sure, neat if you can find it. But FDDI is dead, dead, dead. And Ethernet doesn't have any collisions either if you run it full duplex. paul From paulpenn at knology.net Fri Jul 9 10:22:29 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: ET-3400 Floppy Drive References: <200406101845.i5AIjqbd004934@ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com><6.1.1.1.2.20040610164647.0d288960@pop-server><1086901354.14884.7.camel@weka.localdomain><20040610145313.G83507@newshell.lmi.net><003101c44fe5$cdd35220$6401a8c0@hal9000><019b01c450b9$de68d2c0$6401a8c0@knology.net><001c01c4518d$7e50ce40$6401a8c0@hal9000> <002101c4641f$ad228160$7ddb3fd0@computer> Message-ID: <006501c465c8$8e4a11e0$6401a8c0@knology.net> Mike; Thanks for posting the reference to the Kilobaud article. I found it in my set, but it does not seem to be useful now. The author uses a PIA for a parallel keyboard input. Most people now will probably use a serial port to whatever PC happens to be sitting on their desk. The output of the PIA was a parallel connection to a video card, as well as a bit-banger serial connection to a cassette interface. Memory expansion was a 16K S-100 card (woo-hoo). This is so much easier today. A 64K x 8 memory in one chip is available for a few dollars. I plan on using an ACIA for the serial connection, and adapting one of the many programs to connect to a PC. Once there, any of the resources available on the PC can support the ET-3400 (files, printer, perhaps internet?). I can provide a hard copy by mail if anybody wants it, but again, it's not useful. Later, Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 8:41 AM Subject: Re: ET-3400 Floppy Drive > Hi Steven, Paul, Joe... > > Sorry for the black-out. The Kilobaud issue that I was thinking of was > from Sept/79 with the article "Best of Both Worlds." Although, I was > mistaken recalling a floppy interface when actually the dude had interfaced > an Econoram and a Digital Group's video boards to the trainer.... > > > > ;) > - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net > > > > > > > > Steven wrote: > > > > Anyone have the Kilobaud article where someone connected a FDD > > to a Heathkit ET-3400 ? > > > > I just looked through my end of year indexes for my > > Kilobaud/Microcomputing magazines, but I didn't see this article (or any > > ET-3400 articles, for that matter). Sometimes the titles hide the > contents > > pretty well. If you can come up with an issue citation, I can make a > copy > > of the article. > > > > Paul Pennington > > Augusta, Georgia > > > > From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jul 9 13:59:46 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040703145412.008fd210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Jul 2004, Joe R. wrote: > Interesting. Spar is probably the largest Aerospace company in Canada. > They made the robotic arm for the space schuttle and they made FLIRs for > us. FWIW after the program was cancelled a lot of the hardware ended up > being scrapped and I found a 99% complete FLIR in a scrap yard. I'm now the > proud owner of it :-) What in tarnations is a FLIR? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri Jul 9 14:19:28 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200407091419.28122.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Friday 09 July 2004 13:59, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sat, 3 Jul 2004, Joe R. wrote: > > Interesting. Spar is probably the largest Aerospace company in > > Canada. They made the robotic arm for the space schuttle and they > > made FLIRs for us. FWIW after the program was cancelled a lot of > > the hardware ended up being scrapped and I found a 99% complete > > FLIR in a scrap yard. I'm now the proud owner of it :-) > > What in tarnations is a FLIR? My best guess is "Forward Looking InfraRed".. an IR generally used on police (and probably military) helicopters to help locate people via their IR (body heat) signatures. Damn, I think that I've watched too many "COPS" episodes in the past... Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Jul 9 14:27:32 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Jul 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sat, 3 Jul 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> Interesting. Spar is probably the largest Aerospace company in Canada. >> They made the robotic arm for the space schuttle and they made FLIRs for > > What in tarnations is a FLIR? ^^^^ Forward Looking Infra Red, or sometimes Forward Looking Infrared Radar (not the correct term obviously) Those wierd black-and-white negative images you see from police helicopters chasing guys running thru neighborhoods at night - the warmer something is, the 'brighter' it appears on the FLIR monitor. Also seen in fighter plane gun-camera shots of us blowing up things out in the middle of various Middle Eastern Deserts. Cheers John From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri Jul 9 14:29:40 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes In-Reply-To: <200407091419.28122.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200407091419.28122.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <200407091429.40070.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Friday 09 July 2004 14:19, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > My best guess is "Forward Looking InfraRed".. an IR generally used on Err... IR camera. > police (and probably military) helicopters to help locate people via > their IR (body heat) signatures. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From tponsford at theriver.com Thu Jul 8 10:33:07 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: DSD 4120 qbus floppy controller Message-ID: <40ED6933.2030407@theriver.com> Hi All, Digging through some more stuff. I found a DSD 4120 (NOT 4140) qbus floppy controller connected to two half-height 5 1/4 mitsubishi 4853-1112U flopppy drives. One of the floppy drives had a diskette that read: Scotch 3M 744-0 Diskette Single Head, Single side soft sector, single density A quick google didn't land any hits for the DSD 4120, but a few, including bitsavers had info on the 4140, They appear to be very similiar, but with a few differences. The 4140 is a RX02 controller. Is this another RX02 clone?? It's a 5 1/4 " not 8" and the floppy drive itself is capable of over 700MB. Could this be a RX50 clone?? Anybody senn one of these, any info?? Thanks Cheers Tom -- --- Please do not read this sig. If you have read this far, please unread back to the beginning. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jul 9 14:28:24 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: <16622.56665.709698.96038@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <006001c46542$e853f600$5b01a8c0@flexpc> <40EDDD66.9090206@ntlworld.com> <20040709185751.0a14fabe.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <16622.56665.709698.96038@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040709212824.77d89d34.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 14:00:57 -0400 Paul Koning wrote: > Sure, neat if you can find it. There is plenty of FDDI stuff on ePay for cheap. > But FDDI is dead, dead, dead. ??? Isn't all the stuff we use and talk about here "dead, dead, dead"? Even 10 MBit/s Ethernet is "dead, dead, dead". (At least in its 10Base5 and 10Base2 incarnations.) FDDI is the "proper" and in most cases only available 100 MBit/s network technology for older machines like a SGI Indigo or DEC 3000. > And Ethernet doesn't have any collisions either if you run it full > duplex. And when two machines are pushing 8 MBit/s each to a third machine? The target machine surely can't handle 16 MBit/s with its 10 MBit/s physical link. So you loose bandwith due to collisions in case of high load - the case where you don't want to loose any bandwith. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jul 9 15:17:11 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Commodore PET & 64 floppies (Cambridge UK.. again :) Message-ID: <1089404231.2816.328.camel@weka.localdomain> Saved from the tip again... I have beside me 15 boxes of 5.25" floppies which *appear* to be for the PET and '64 (mainly '64). Lots are unlabelled (just Commodore floppy jackets), Lots just marked as 'games', and some other assortments - serious applications etc. Any Commodore enthusiasts want to take this? At the very least hopefully someone can catalogue them for distribution to others if they're useful - I haven't got a Commodore PET or 64 on which to look at them... cheers Jules From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Jul 9 15:26:22 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again References: <006001c46542$e853f600$5b01a8c0@flexpc> <40EDDD66.9090206@ntlworld.com> <20040709185751.0a14fabe.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <16622.56665.709698.96038@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20040709212824.77d89d34.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <16622.65390.825960.278032@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jochen" == Jochen Kunz writes: Jochen> On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 14:00:57 -0400 Paul Koning Jochen> wrote: >> Sure, neat if you can find it. Jochen> There is plenty of FDDI stuff on ePay for cheap. >> But FDDI is dead, dead, dead. Jochen> ??? Isn't all the stuff we use and talk about here "dead, Jochen> dead, dead"? Even 10 MBit/s Ethernet is "dead, dead, Jochen> dead". (At least in its 10Base5 and 10Base2 incarnations.) Jochen> FDDI is the "proper" and in most cases only available 100 Jochen> MBit/s network technology for older machines like a SGI Jochen> Indigo or DEC 3000. Sure, fair enough. I thought the discussion was about good fast networks to use around the shop. >> And Ethernet doesn't have any collisions either if you run it full >> duplex. Jochen> And when two machines are pushing 8 MBit/s each to a third Jochen> machine? The target machine surely can't handle 16 MBit/s Jochen> with its 10 MBit/s physical link. So you loose bandwith due Jochen> to collisions in case of high load - the case where you don't Jochen> want to loose any bandwith. No, that's congestion, not collisions. Collisions has a specific meaning that applies ONLY to half duplex Ethernet. Congestion happens in any network when there's more input than the bandwidth of the output. If you have more than 10 Mb/s worth of traffic, you need a link with more than 10 Mb/s capacity -- FDDI is one, and so is 100BaseT. The two are roughly the same in capacity, though the worst case latency of FDDI is much higher than that of Ethernet. (Not that it matters in practice.) paul From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jul 9 16:41:29 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040703145412.008fd210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040709174129.00928430@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:59 AM 7/9/04 -0700, you wrote: >On Sat, 3 Jul 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> Interesting. Spar is probably the largest Aerospace company in Canada. >> They made the robotic arm for the space schuttle and they made FLIRs for >> us. FWIW after the program was cancelled a lot of the hardware ended up >> being scrapped and I found a 99% complete FLIR in a scrap yard. I'm now the >> proud owner of it :-) > >What in tarnations is a FLIR? Forward Looking Infrared Reciever. It's the device that let you see at night. These are sensative enough to see body heat or even the heat generated by air friction of a moving aircraft. Sensativity is WELL under 1 degree. This is the same FLIR used on the Apache helicopters but with a different field of view. You've probably seen on TV what they can do. But to really appreciate what they can do you have to wait till a woman walks in front of one :-) Joe > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From dvcorbin at optonline.net Fri Jul 9 17:03:42 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040709174129.00928430@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: >>> You've probably seen on TV what >>> they can do. But to really appreciate what they can do you >>> have to wait till a woman walks in front of one :-) Now don't go giving away all the secrets! From aek at spies.com Fri Jul 9 17:02:48 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: HP 6101x and PCIB Message-ID: <20040709220248.9FFAC3D3D@spies.com> I just picked up several dozen 6101x series PCIB instrument boxes and was wondering if anyone knows anything about them? What I've found so far is at: http://www.sismilich.com/hpjrnl.htm As usual, no interface card, software or power supplies. I did also find a short description of PCIB. Not quite totally unlike HPIB.. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jul 9 17:15:54 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Conitec system available (Was: Re: what the heck!? (bodged eurocard system)) In-Reply-To: <20040702130415.3358D3919B@linux.local> References: <20040702130415.3358D3919B@linux.local> Message-ID: <1089411354.2816.481.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 12:41, Bernd Kopriva wrote: > Hi Jules, > it looks like you found a nice Z80 CP/M system ... > ... the CPU card is probably a PROF80, and the I/O board is a GRIP 1 terminal > card. Both of them had been distributed by conitec, germany. For starters, this machine's available for pickup, now with manuals :) Bernd, you were exactly right. I'd spotted that the parallel port of the machine was hand-labelled in both French and English, and recalled seeing a stack of papers in French in the same room that the machine had been stored. On a hunch I went back and grabbed them, figuring the machine and the papers may have once belonged to the same person. Most of them were junk - game cheats and the like. However I struck gold - finding buried within them the GRIP manual, PROF-80 manual, various CP/M text, and the manual for the keyboard which came with the machine. Realistically, the museum has too many CP/M machines already. I certainly don't have the space to hang onto it nor the time to do anything with it (I've got my Research Machines if I want to play with CP/M anyway). Anyone want to come and get it? Only possible catch with it being in the UK is that, as Bernd says, it's a German machine - so the manuals are all in German too. Maybe someone wants to move it back to Germany? :-) Somebody give it a home! cheers, Jules From bernd at kopriva.de Fri Jul 9 17:30:44 2004 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:11 2005 Subject: Conitec system available (Was: Re: what the heck!? (bodged eurocard system)) In-Reply-To: <1089411354.2816.481.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040709225609.05005391AB@linux.local> Hi Jules, i would be happy to take that little beauty ... ... unfortunately, i don't come to the UK the next days, weeks, months (maybe years), and shipping will be too expensive :-( Or is anyone out there, who is incidentally :-) on a trip from the UK to germany and could bring it over here (maybe near Stuttgart ...) ? Bernd On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 22:15:54 +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: >On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 12:41, Bernd Kopriva wrote: >> Hi Jules, >> it looks like you found a nice Z80 CP/M system ... >> ... the CPU card is probably a PROF80, and the I/O board is a GRIP 1 terminal >> card. Both of them had been distributed by conitec, germany. > >For starters, this machine's available for pickup, now with manuals :) > >Bernd, you were exactly right. I'd spotted that the parallel port of the >machine was hand-labelled in both French and English, and recalled >seeing a stack of papers in French in the same room that the machine had >been stored. > >On a hunch I went back and grabbed them, figuring the machine and the >papers may have once belonged to the same person. Most of them were junk >- game cheats and the like. However I struck gold - finding buried >within them the GRIP manual, PROF-80 manual, various CP/M text, and the >manual for the keyboard which came with the machine. > >Realistically, the museum has too many CP/M machines already. I >certainly don't have the space to hang onto it nor the time to do >anything with it (I've got my Research Machines if I want to play with >CP/M anyway). > >Anyone want to come and get it? Only possible catch with it being in the >UK is that, as Bernd says, it's a German machine - so the manuals are >all in German too. Maybe someone wants to move it back to Germany? :-) > >Somebody give it a home! > >cheers, > >Jules > > > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jul 9 17:56:56 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: Conitec system available (Was: Re: what the heck!? (bodged eurocard system)) In-Reply-To: <1089411354.2816.481.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <20040702130415.3358D3919B@linux.local> <1089411354.2816.481.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1089413816.2816.567.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-07-09 at 22:15, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 12:41, Bernd Kopriva wrote: > > Hi Jules, > > it looks like you found a nice Z80 CP/M system ... > > ... the CPU card is probably a PROF80, and the I/O board is a GRIP 1 terminal > > card. Both of them had been distributed by conitec, germany. Hmm, I've possibly found some floppies for it too. I've got 40 or so 5.25" disks in a disk box found in the same room, some of which are labelled in French, and which also mention CP/M in places. It's reasonably likely that they're for this machine. cheers, Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jul 9 18:04:27 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: spare: IBM System/370 Extended Architecture Principles of Operation manual Message-ID: <1089414266.2816.585.camel@weka.localdomain> Up for grabs: "IBM System/370 Extended Architecture Principles of Operation" manual. ta, Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jul 9 17:43:10 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: Conitec system available (Was: Re: what the heck!? (bodged eurocard system)) In-Reply-To: <20040709225609.05005391AB@linux.local> References: <20040709225609.05005391AB@linux.local> Message-ID: <1089412990.2816.534.camel@weka.localdomain> Aren't Pete's bits heading to Germany soon? :-) Well, at least if someone happens to be able to transport them! Maybe the Conitec system could be taken at the same time? (it's the size of a PC XT case - which in fact is exactly what it's housed in) cheers, Jules On Fri, 2004-07-09 at 22:30, Bernd Kopriva wrote: > Hi Jules, > i would be happy to take that little beauty ... > ... unfortunately, i don't come to the UK the next days, weeks, months (maybe years), and shipping > will be too expensive :-( > Or is anyone out there, who is incidentally :-) on a trip from the UK to germany and could bring it over > here (maybe near Stuttgart ...) ? > > Bernd > > On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 22:15:54 +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > > >On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 12:41, Bernd Kopriva wrote: > >> Hi Jules, > >> it looks like you found a nice Z80 CP/M system ... > >> ... the CPU card is probably a PROF80, and the I/O board is a GRIP 1 terminal > >> card. Both of them had been distributed by conitec, germany. > > > >For starters, this machine's available for pickup, now with manuals :) > > > >Bernd, you were exactly right. I'd spotted that the parallel port of the > >machine was hand-labelled in both French and English, and recalled > >seeing a stack of papers in French in the same room that the machine had > >been stored. > > > >On a hunch I went back and grabbed them, figuring the machine and the > >papers may have once belonged to the same person. Most of them were junk > >- game cheats and the like. However I struck gold - finding buried > >within them the GRIP manual, PROF-80 manual, various CP/M text, and the > >manual for the keyboard which came with the machine. > > > >Realistically, the museum has too many CP/M machines already. I > >certainly don't have the space to hang onto it nor the time to do > >anything with it (I've got my Research Machines if I want to play with > >CP/M anyway). > > > >Anyone want to come and get it? Only possible catch with it being in the > >UK is that, as Bernd says, it's a German machine - so the manuals are > >all in German too. Maybe someone wants to move it back to Germany? :-) > > > >Somebody give it a home! > > > >cheers, > > > >Jules > > > > > > > > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Jul 9 18:21:06 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7b3005cc4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Not that you can avoid the advertising on DVDs anymore. I rented one a > few months ago that wouldn't even let you skip them! If I wasn't so lazy > at that point I would taken it back to the video store and demanded a > refund. That's why I use VideoLAN's "VLC" player with the "Simple DVD Decode" driver. "Forced viewing" no longer exists - just drag the seek-bar near the end of the slider and wait all of two seconds for the trailers to finish. DVD-CSS crypto is braindead anyway. IIRC the key-management system alone can be broken with 2^16 guesses anyway, which means that blocking "leaked" keys is useless - most CSS decoders just bruteforce the keys anyway. I really do love the way the MPAA handled it though - file lawsuits against any website that had the DeCSS source code available for download. Unfortunately, to do this, the MPAA had to include the source code in the lawsuit. Said source code can - IIRC - be obtained from court records by anyone who wants it. Nice :) Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Click..Click..Click..darn, out of taglines! From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jul 9 17:51:36 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: Transport arrangement needed UK -> GER In-Reply-To: <15440.1089370961@www35.gmx.net> References: <15440.1089370961@www35.gmx.net> Message-ID: <1089413496.2816.551.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-07-09 at 11:02, Arno Kletzander wrote: > Pete and I have worked out that I should ask here if anybody from the UK > (preferably near York) would go on holiday on the Continent this summer > (passing through Southern Germany), or vice versa, and could be persuaded to > collect and drop off the equipment in question. In return I offer > lunch/dinner, drinks and if wanted a financial contribution for fuel. In case it's at all useful, I'll probably be visiting Pete in a few weeks' time and should have space in the car to fit that lot in (unless the P4000 is enormous!). That'd only get it from York to Cambridge, but Cambridge is at least a little more central. If there's a chance of sneaking this Conitec system in for Bernd at the same time it'd be handy for him too I think :-) The only problem is there's no way I could hang on to this stuff in Cambridge for more than a few days - there just isn't the room. But it might save someone from the bottom half of the UK a trip to York and back. Of course it also assumes Pete can get the stuff to his home before I go and see him. No idea if this is useful or not, but it's another idea for the pot anyway. cheers, Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jul 9 18:01:59 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: IBM manuals available Message-ID: <1089414118.2816.579.camel@weka.localdomain> IBM XT Guide to Operations (contains hardware reference library diagnostics floppy) IBM Portable Guide to Operations (contains diag floppy) BASIC for IBM PC All three are in very good condition. cheers, Jules From lbickley at bickleywest.com Fri Jul 9 19:21:28 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: HP 6101x and PCIB In-Reply-To: <20040709220248.9FFAC3D3D@spies.com> References: <20040709220248.9FFAC3D3D@spies.com> Message-ID: <200407091721.28701.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Al, To my understanding, these instruments use what was at one time called the "PC instrument bus" per some HP literature below: "IEEE488, the PC instrument bus, April 1990, p309 IEE488 or GPIB bus crosses every application boundary..." I'm very familiar with test equipment/gpib/etc. - and one thing that bothers me about the 6101x gear is that LabView doesen't seem to support it - and LabView supports just about every GPIB instrument I've ever come accross... Let's discuss at the DCL if you'll be there tomorrow... Bring a "sample" ;-) Lyle On Friday 09 July 2004 15:02, Al Kossow wrote: > I just picked up several dozen 6101x series PCIB instrument boxes > and was wondering if anyone knows anything about them? What I've > found so far is at: > > http://www.sismilich.com/hpjrnl.htm > > As usual, no interface card, software or power supplies. > > I did also find a short description of PCIB. Not quite totally > unlike HPIB.. -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri Jul 9 19:36:42 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: Commodore PET & 64 floppies (Cambridge UK.. again :) In-Reply-To: <1089404231.2816.328.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1089404231.2816.328.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040710003642.GB21104@bos7.spole.gov> On Fri, Jul 09, 2004 at 08:17:11PM +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > > Saved from the tip again... > > I have beside me 15 boxes of 5.25" floppies which *appear* to be for the > PET and '64 (mainly '64). Lots are unlabelled (just Commodore floppy > jackets), Lots just marked as 'games', and some other assortments - > serious applications etc. > > Any Commodore enthusiasts want to take this? At the very least hopefully > someone can catalogue them for distribution to others if they're useful > - I haven't got a Commodore PET or 64 on which to look at them... Whoever takes these, would it be possible to scan them in (I personally use a real 1541 and a parallel port cable and one of many dump utils - it varies based on the cable you have and your OS), and make the contents available? I don't have a PET with me, but I've been using VICE for years. I even just helped one of the developers track down a T64 bug with xpet the other week (they made a change to x64 at v1.10 that should _not_ have been made to xpet owing to differences in how they code program files on real tapes). I'm always on the lookout for old PET stuff... Thanks, -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 10-Jul-2004 00:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -100. F (-73.4 C) Windchill -142.1 F (-96.7 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9.69 kts Grid 069 Barometer 667.2 mb (11111. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From aek at spies.com Fri Jul 9 19:41:42 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: HP 6101x and PCIB In-Reply-To: <200407091721.28701.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: <20040710004142.A60763D31@spies.com> > Let's discuss at the DCL if you'll be there tomorrow... Bring a "sample" ;-) will do.. they're all in the back of the truck. This is another reason why PC based test equipment is a Bad Thing. Here are lots of nice digitizing scopes, power supplies, signal generators, and DMMs that are totally useless because all of the UI was done through a '86 vintage PC and a interface that never caught on. I have a bunch of Biomation CLAS4000 logic analyzers that have the same problem. They are SCSI, and the UI was written to run on Mac II's. The list goes on and on.. Orion Unilabs, prom programmers, etc. etc.. From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Fri Jul 9 20:05:42 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: Transport arrangement needed UK -> GER In-Reply-To: <1089413496.2816.551.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <15440.1089370961@www35.gmx.net> <1089413496.2816.551.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <40EF40E6.6090006@ntlworld.com> > The only problem is there's no way I could hang on to this stuff in > Cambridge for more than a few days - there just isn't the room. But it > might save someone from the bottom half of the UK a trip to York and > back. Of course it also assumes Pete can get the stuff to his home > before I go and see him. > > No idea if this is useful or not, but it's another idea for the pot > anyway. > > cheers, > > Jules > > I've got some stuff to be picked up at the moment, but after it's picked up I think at the end of July. I can store some stuff in central London if the need arises. As long as it's not obscenely massive I can help out. Dan From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri Jul 9 20:57:49 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: HP 6101x and PCIB In-Reply-To: <20040710004142.A60763D31@spies.com> References: <200407091721.28701.lbickley@bickleywest.com> <20040710004142.A60763D31@spies.com> Message-ID: <20040710015749.GC21104@bos7.spole.gov> On Fri, Jul 09, 2004 at 05:41:42PM -0700, Al Kossow wrote: > This is another reason why PC based test equipment is a Bad Thing. > > Here are lots of nice digitizing scopes, power supplies, signal generators, > and DMMs that are totally useless because all of the UI was done through > a '86 vintage PC and a interface that never caught on. I have a Northwest Instruments 68000 bus analyzer that has an IBM 5150 front end. I have to keep the PC working or it's useless. I don't even know if it would work with a faster machine, but even then, I'd top out at something with an ISA slot. I'm equally stuck with my B&C Microsystems UP600A device programmer... It does _not_ work with even a 25MHz '386. I'm sure there's a dumb timing loop somewhere. I have theorized that it might work on a board that has a turbo switch (with the switch set to non-turbo mode), and the bus turned down as slow as the BIOS allows, but I've never sat down and run the necessary tests. It's easier to keep a '286 around. It works on an 8MHz machine and that's what matters most. My question, though, is what's the alternative to PC-based test equipment? Completely self-contained proprietary stuff? -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 10-Jul-2004 01:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -97.5 F (-72.0 C) Windchill -139.4 F (-95.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10 kts Grid 055 Barometer 667.3 mb (11107. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jul 9 21:14:23 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: DVD crap! Re: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes In-Reply-To: <7b3005cc4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040709221423.008f2a40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Phil, Can you suggest any good sources to learn more about VideoLAN and other products to get around this stupid and the other rediculous DVD "features". I'm not that knowledgeable about DVD but I hate being forced to watch all their ads and other crap. Joe At 12:21 AM 7/10/04 +0100, Phil wrote: >In message > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >> Not that you can avoid the advertising on DVDs anymore. I rented one a >> few months ago that wouldn't even let you skip them! If I wasn't so lazy >> at that point I would taken it back to the video store and demanded a >> refund. >That's why I use VideoLAN's "VLC" player with the "Simple DVD Decode" driver. >"Forced viewing" no longer exists - just drag the seek-bar near the end of >the slider and wait all of two seconds for the trailers to finish. >DVD-CSS crypto is braindead anyway. IIRC the key-management system alone can >be broken with 2^16 guesses anyway, which means that blocking "leaked" keys >is useless - most CSS decoders just bruteforce the keys anyway. >I really do love the way the MPAA handled it though - file lawsuits against >any website that had the DeCSS source code available for download. >Unfortunately, to do this, the MPAA had to include the source code in the >lawsuit. Said source code can - IIRC - be obtained from court records by >anyone who wants it. Nice :) > >Later. >-- >Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, >philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, >http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI >... Click..Click..Click..darn, out of taglines! > From aek at spies.com Fri Jul 9 21:29:45 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: HP 6101x and PCIB Message-ID: <20040710022945.C7F423D35@spies.com> My question, though, is what's the alternative to PC-based test equipment? Completely self-contained proprietary stuff? -- I'm of the Tony Duell school here.. Document as much as you can if you care about using it in the future. The PC stuff is 'proprietary' as well, with the exeception of a few card vendors, you can't find out from them how it works (or doesn't...) Any instrument with a microprocessor should have its ROMs read and backed up. I got VERY lucky and was able to get my 16500B analyzer going again because I had access to another unit, was able to read the eprom, and was able to reprogram the part that had gone bad (a bit had gone to a '1' and could be reprogrammed to '0') The entire CPU board is a FRU, it's cheaper to find an entire chassis on eBay than trying to find just the processor board. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 9 21:45:47 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: DVD crap! Re: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040709221423.008f2a40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040709221423.008f2a40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > Can you suggest any good sources to learn more about VideoLAN and other >products to get around this stupid and the other rediculous DVD "features". > I'm not that knowledgeable about DVD but I hate being forced to watch all >their ads and other crap. The "Fast Forward" button usually works surprisingly well, even when they lock out the ability to jump to the menu or skip to the next chapter. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jul 9 22:10:01 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: Vaian 620? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040709231001.008ab410@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anybody around still have one of these that works? Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jul 9 22:16:25 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: Oops, make that Varian 620. Re: Vaian 620? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040709231001.008ab410@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040709231625.008fb7d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:10 PM 7/9/04 -0400, you wrote: > Does anybody around still have one of these that works? > > Joe > From aek at spies.com Fri Jul 9 23:43:05 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: Vaian 620? Message-ID: <20040710044305.19ED33D3D@spies.com> > Does anybody around still have one of these that works? yes, along with all the documentation am looking for software in any form (tape, paper tape or disc) There are several different 620's BTW 620-I 620-L 620-L/100 From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Jul 10 02:16:26 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: DVD crap! Re: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040709221423.008f2a40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040709221423.008f2a40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <00b530cc4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <3.0.6.32.20040709221423.008f2a40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> "Joe R." wrote: > Can you suggest any good sources to learn more about VideoLAN and other > products to get around this stupid and the other rediculous DVD "features". > I'm not that knowledgeable about DVD but I hate being forced to watch all > their ads and other crap. If you've got a machine that runs either Windows or Linux, you can get binaries and source code from . Although VLC is still under development, it's actually quite stable. It plays nearly anything - DivX/XviD AVIs, MPEGs, MP3s, DVDs, "OGM" (Ogg) video files, "Matroska" video files, plus a few other things. The DVD decoder seems to work quite well on PCs down to about 500MHz. VLC seems to be designed to skip frames if the video is running faster/slower than the audio. Windows Media Player (spit) appears to play the audio and video, and doesn't do a great deal of frameskipping. The nice thing about VLC is that you can have a DVD playing one one machine, then stream it over a LAN, assuming the LAN is fast enough (mine isn't; 10BaseT Ethernet isn't really fast enough for streaming DVD video in realtime). Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... :.::: ::..: ::.::. :..:: Tagline in Braille From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Jul 10 02:19:05 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: Old copy of PCTools... Message-ID: <1089443944.3905.5.camel@weka.localdomain> Another find for someone if they want it: Ancient manual + floppy for Central Point's PC Tools Deluxe. Requires at least 256KB of memory and DOS 2.0 or higher. Version 1 presumably, as I can't see a version number on anything. There's a single 5.25" "DOS Utilities" floppy. Flicking through the install section in the manual, I believe that's all there's supposed to be. cheers, Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Jul 10 02:25:39 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: Large-capacity 5.25" SCSI disks (Cambridge again) Message-ID: <1089444338.3905.13.camel@weka.localdomain> I think I closed my email client without sending this yesterday - oops. Sorry if I'm repeating myself :) I've got the following 5.25" FH SCSI drives going spare: One Fujitsu M2266SA (1.2GB I think) Three Fujitsu M2652SA (around 2 GB) One Seagate PA4G1B (4.1GB I'm guessing??) Three Seagate ST410800 (9GB) Shout if interested, I'll see what I can hook them up to and test that they seem to work. Oh, anyone seen my post about SCSI cabinets to go with them yet? I've not seen that on the list even though I sent it yesterday. If it's lost in the ether I'll re-send tonight... cheers, Jules From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Jul 10 02:28:20 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: HP 6101x and PCIB In-Reply-To: <20040710022945.C7F423D35@spies.com> References: <20040710022945.C7F423D35@spies.com> Message-ID: In message <20040710022945.C7F423D35@spies.com> aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) wrote: > I'm of the Tony Duell school here.. Document as much as you can if you care > about using it in the future. I'm of the "If it's too expensive or you can't get a service manual, build your own" school. I'm currently working on a fairly simple dual-channel linear power supply with GPIB interface, with commands conforming to IEEE488-2. Thankfully Agilent were nice enough to leave a scanned copy of HP's "A Tutorial Guide to the GPIB Bus" on their FTP site. The idea is, you can control it from the front panel fairly easily (e.g. press CH1, then VOLTAGE, then, say, 12.0 to set the voltage to 12V). Just another spare-time project - at least digital meters don't jam (I've got a Farnell L30B with a jammed left voltage/current meter). > The PC stuff is 'proprietary' as well, with the exeception of a few card > vendors, you can't find out from them how it works (or doesn't...) I found that with the HP 1650B. Dead CPU? Replace the whole board. Dead resistor on the acquisition board? Replace the board! Unfortunately the three words "Proprietary and confidential" seem to have basically stopped manufacturers giving away schematics. That applies to Tek and HP/Agilent especially - their service manuals are basically just bits of paper telling you which board has which part number and what to swap. My Tek 466 Service Manual not only covers the operation of the scope, it also contains full schematics, with the waveforms and voltages at various points shown on the diagram. I still think the only reason Tek got away with calling the 466 "portable" was the fact that it's got a handle. Not that I care, it does its job and it does it well. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... "Bother", said Pooh, as he failed the dope test. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Jul 10 04:03:38 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: WTD: Fairchild 96LS488 datasheet Message-ID: Hi, Does anyone happen to have a copy of the Fairchild 96LS488 datasheet lying around anywhere? I've checked Bitsavers and Google - nothing at all - not even a pinout. The datasheet is listed on PartMiner/FreeTradezone but I haven't got an FTZ account that has datasheet downloading enabled. Bah. Thanks. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... NetWare does not have bugs, it has "Undocumented enhancements" From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Jul 10 05:26:25 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: Large-capacity 5.25" SCSI disks (Cambridge again) In-Reply-To: <1089444338.3905.13.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1089444338.3905.13.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1051.65.123.179.126.1089455185.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> THe Seagates I would definitely be interested in. E-mail me offlist, and delete webmail from my addy or it will bounce like flubber. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph. > > I think I closed my email client without sending this yesterday - oops. > Sorry if I'm repeating myself :) > > I've got the following 5.25" FH SCSI drives going spare: > > One Fujitsu M2266SA (1.2GB I think) > Three Fujitsu M2652SA (around 2 GB) > One Seagate PA4G1B (4.1GB I'm guessing??) > Three Seagate ST410800 (9GB) > > Shout if interested, I'll see what I can hook them up to and test that > they seem to work. > > Oh, anyone seen my post about SCSI cabinets to go with them yet? I've > not seen that on the list even though I sent it yesterday. If it's lost > in the ether I'll re-send tonight... > > cheers, > > Jules > > > From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat Jul 10 05:57:34 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > Does nobody use 10Mbps any more? Yes. I do. With classic systems, 100Mbps or up does not make any sense. And, in some cases, not even full duplex and/or switching makes sense; I have had several instances of a machine going nuts after being connected to a switch instead of a hub- protocol incompatibilities. So.. I have 3 DEChub90-based "retro" segments (10B2, 10BT, 10B-FL) which now all connect to the DEChub900 MultiSwitch "retro" 10/100 switched core segment with 10B-FL links for galvanic separation. The faster VAXen, MIPSen and Alpha's are on the core segment so they can babble all they want. The core also houses two Wireless segments (three actually: 915MHz, 2.4GHz FH and 2.4GHz DS, but the latter is usually switched off) for the laptops and other fun. My personal network is 10/100 switched (Cisco Catalyst) and connected to my company network, which is 100/1000 switched (Catalyst) with all the servers, and my fast workstation being on gigabit fiber. There's also a wireless network (802.11a/b/g auto) for the laptops and the friends that come in and want coffee *and* Internet ;-) Obviously, all that comes to a screeching halt when going to the Internet connection- I have two (one 8192/8192 SDSL for the company and another 8192/2048 ADSL for personal use, like movie downloading ;-) but obviously, they can be driven by a single 10MBps segment easily... Also, I need the switched network for QoS, because I am completely based on VoIP here (and in/to the U.S.) including a live cam link between here and my lil'son's room. I'd rather not see him go all stuttery just because there's also a DVD copy running on the network... switching, tagging and shaping helps here. Most of my "work" I do on highspeed networks, the movie-and-iso moving indeed also happens on the gigabit core, but for all other work, the 10Mbps (and wireless) connections are plenty fast... --f From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Jul 10 09:05:08 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: WTD: Fairchild 96LS488 datasheet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040710100151.0509fcb0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Philip Pemberton may have mentioned these words: >Hi, > Does anyone happen to have a copy of the Fairchild 96LS488 datasheet lying >around anywhere? > I've checked Bitsavers and Google - nothing at all - not even a pinout. >The datasheet is listed on PartMiner/FreeTradezone but I haven't got an FTZ >account that has datasheet downloading enabled. Bah. around 5 years ago (or so) fairchild had darned near every datasheet as a PDF available publicly on the Internut... I had downloaded just about everything I could find & burned it to CD "Just In Case." Now to find the CDs... I did find reference to a single-chip GPIB implementation here: http://www.ee.ualberta.ca/~rchapman/Cmpe401/pdfs/ieee488.pdf (near the bottom) Maybe this could serve your needs as a replacement? HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Randomization is better!!! If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From aek at spies.com Sat Jul 10 11:53:02 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: HP 6101x and PCIB Message-ID: <20040710165302.397B13C15@spies.com> Thankfully Agilent were nice enough to leave a scanned copy of HP's "A Tutorial Guide to the GPIB Bus" on their FTP site. -- url? I have a poor quality paper copy. From hansp at citem.org Sat Jul 10 13:32:01 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: HP 6101x and PCIB In-Reply-To: <20040710165302.397B13C15@spies.com> References: <20040710165302.397B13C15@spies.com> Message-ID: <40F03621.7020703@citem.org> Al Kossow wrote: > Thankfully Agilent were nice enough to leave a scanned copy of > HP's "A Tutorial Guide to the GPIB Bus" on their FTP site. > > -- > > url? This one perhaps ? http://ftp.agilent.com/pub/mpusup/pc/iop/hpibtut/index-old.html -- HansP From willief at base-2.com Wed Jul 7 14:14:45 2004 From: willief at base-2.com (willief) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: TIL306/TIL308 parts Message-ID: <200407071914.MAA18875@YOKEL.base-2.com> Hello, I saw your note from a google search that you were at one time looking for TIL306 displays? I have some TIL306 displays. I'm looking for TIL308 displays. Do you have these? I'll buy, sell trade the TIL306 for the TIL308. Let me know, Willie /-------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Willie Flint willief@base-2.com | | Base 2 Technologies, Inc. 253.437.1182 | | 22342 68th Avenue South 253.437.1183 Fax | | Kent, WA. 98032 www.base-2.com | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| | Advanced Computing and Electronics * Corp/Mil * Sales * Repair | \-------------------------------------------------------------------/ From drb at msu.edu Wed Jul 7 18:20:48 2004 From: drb at msu.edu (Dennis Boone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: DECwriter, Letterprinters at Mich. St. U. salvage Message-ID: <200407072320.i67NKmt2010859@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> Stumbled across a few free printing terminals today, if anyone is in the right place and interested. Michigan State University's Salvage yard had a few serial interface units of some sort, assorted cables, three DEC Letterprinters and two Decwriter III's in their free pile as of about 1:20 this afternoon. I grabbed one of each terminal, a couple of serial line driver units, and a nice cart. I would have taken all of them, but the truck was full. No guarantees they're still there of course. De From nickpug at hotmail.com Wed Jul 7 18:37:38 2004 From: nickpug at hotmail.com (nick pug) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: sol-20 Message-ID: selling two sol-20's on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5107460998 _________________________________________________________________ Check out the latest news, polls and tools in the MSN 2004 Election Guide! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx From sieler at allegro.com Wed Jul 7 18:45:21 2004 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: HP Integral serial card In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040702144926.0092ede0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <40EC28A1.16867.16A9660@localhost> Tony writes: > Rememebr that the serial port is not standard on the Integral -- HPIB is, > and a couple of HP-HIL ports (actually kludged into one chain) for the > keyboard and mouse). I have yet to find a serial card for my Intergral... I may have a spare serial card soon ... for cost (about $20) plus shipping. (I just bought three Integrals (two working, one missing the power supply inside), and will be receiving them soon.) -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From dj.taylor at starpower.net Wed Jul 7 19:35:37 2004 From: dj.taylor at starpower.net (Douglas Taylor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: Emulex TC02 and Qualstar Tape Drive In-Reply-To: <001501c463ae$e3f59b80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <6.0.1.1.0.20040705105110.01ae9518@pop.starpower.net> <001501c463ae$e3f59b80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.0.20040707202807.01ae9610@pop.starpower.net> At 07:13 PM 7/6/2004, you wrote: > > MSA0: drive but it is not online or available, just what does this mean? > >Frequently with a tapedrive offline means only that a switch need be >pushed on it's frontpanel, often depending on a tape load before it. >Trivial to us oldtimers, but maybe not to newcomers. > >John A. I always wanted to have a reel to reel tape drive and now I have one. The mistake I made was not checking google before opening my mouth. I found out that the TC02 does not work in Vax with VMS > 4.x, however I did put the TC02 into a PDP11/53 and got it to work. This was not easy since the only cables I have were about 18 inches long so the tape drive had to be right next to the BA23 chassis and I only have one!!!! tape and no write ring. So I used tape in place of a write ring and got the PDP to actually see the tape and Init it under RT11 and read and write to it. What a great feeling to see the tape move! Aren't old computers fun!!!??? Any advice on cables? I need 50 pin card edge on the tape side and 50 pin IDC on the TC02 side, the DQ3153 wants 50 pin male Centronics connectors instead of IDC. What's a good place to order parts? Doug From john_a_s2004 at hotmail.com Thu Jul 8 03:26:52 2004 From: john_a_s2004 at hotmail.com (John) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: cctalk archive for 2001? Message-ID: Hi, Apologies if I missed an earlier post, but what has happened please to the cctalk archive for 2001? There was a lot of great stuff in there, all nicely searchable by Google. Regards, John From pittsjo at nassau.k12.fl.us Thu Jul 8 07:18:39 2004 From: pittsjo at nassau.k12.fl.us (John F. Pitts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: EV-831 Message-ID: Hi, Joe I just stumbled across the EV-831 thread while looking for a solution to my Tape problem here at Nassau County School Board. We have a number of old EV-831 boards wih old Sankyo 1/4 inch tape drives and are trying to set up the boards/tapes in machines with CD burners so that we can xfer all the old archive tapes to CD's for back-up/disaster recovery. Trouble is we have no SW or drivers that work with the EV-831. Could you send me Zips of the disks/programs that you mentioned in the thread. My email is [ mailto:john.pitts@nassau.k12.fl.us ]john.pitts@nassau.k12.fl.us. This would be a tremendous help. We've been struggling with this for a couple of weeks and are at the point that we were going to use the old (1993-94) Xenix machines that originally had the EV-831's in them and kermit the extracted files over to a new machine with burner HW/SW. Anyway, TIA. John Pitts Hardware Tech Nassau County School Board Fernandina Beach, FL [ mailto:john.pitts@nassau.k12.fl.us ]john.pitts@nassau.k12.fl.us From cc at corti-net.de Thu Jul 8 10:16:13 2004 From: cc at corti-net.de (Christian Corti) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: IBM 5110 APL ROS In-Reply-To: <40EC5219.6030506@citem.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Hans B PUFAL wrote: > I'm curious ;-) Is this technical information available on-line anywhere? Yes :-) I've done some work that you can find at http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dev/ibm_5110/technik/en/index.html Note: Most of the information was gained by reverse engineering and trial and error. Christian From Btamura at aol.com Thu Jul 8 10:28:50 2004 From: Btamura at aol.com (Btamura@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: Bytek Multitrk-2000 Programmer Message-ID: <46.52a9fc89.2e1ec232@aol.com> I am looking to purchase a Programmer and wonder if you could tell me the type of device list such as 2716 thru 27c type and or flash. Thanks for any help From jdbryan at acm.org Thu Jul 8 10:37:35 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: Motorola MVME131 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200407081537.i68Fbdhq012297@mail.bcpl.net> On 8 Jul 2004 at 9:34, Davison, Lee wrote: > That's more than I have at the moment so yes it will help. OK, will scan this weekend. I'll post a URL for pickup when it's ready. > If anyone else has jumper and I/O pinouts, memory maps etc. that would > be of use. The Motorola datasheet has tables labelled "Address Map," "Status Register Format," and "Control Register Format." Precious little explanation of those, sadly. -- Dave From jdbryan at acm.org Thu Jul 8 10:37:38 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: Motorola MVME131 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200407081537.i68Fbdhs012297@mail.bcpl.net> On 8 Jul 2004 at 9:53, Davison, Lee wrote: > This board appears to be fitted with the VME130 diagnostic/debugger > V3.1 ROM. ANyone have the destructions for this or a similar ROM? The aforementioned Motorola databook has a couple of pages each on the "MVMEBUG" and "MVME117bug" debug monitor ROMs, including brief summaries of commands. I'll scan them too. -- Dave From jdbryan at acm.org Thu Jul 8 11:18:04 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: HP 1000 M series on Ebay In-Reply-To: <000801c464ae$a0934670$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <200407081618.i68GI6dH020211@mail.bcpl.net> On 8 Jul 2004 at 0:44, Jay West wrote: > I noticed this the other day... I'm a bit confused as to it's lineage. Would you have a URL to the picture (I'm not an e-Bayer :-)? > First, the M series has a unique keyswitch, unlike the E and F series. > In the E & F, the keyswitch is nothing more than a latch to open the > front panel. On the M series, the front panel switch is electronic, > selecting R (reset memory I think), Off, Standby, On, and perhaps Lock > (going from memory). R, Standby, Operate, Lock. The front panel key changed from an electrical switch to a mechanical lock coincident with the change from the "A" model power supply to the "B" model supply. The M- and E-series were produced in both "A" and "B" versions (models 2105A, 2108A, 2112A, 2109A, and 2113A, superceded by the 2108B, 2112B, 2109B, and 2113B). The F-series was produced only with a "B" version supply, as far as I know. The "A" power supply had the line switch on the rear of the unit. The "B" power supply mounted an internal line switch and a separate "Lock/Operate" switch on the front of the supply behind the front panel that replaces the "Lock" function of the original front-panel switch. The front panel itself underwent a number of cosmetic changes. As I recall, the "A" units were marked "21MX" and "21MX/E" on the front panel. The "B" units were marked "M-Series Computer," etc. The HP badge tended to move around too from revision to revision. (My company had one of the original M-series units, i.e., before it was an "M-series." The power supply was subsequently upgraded to a "B" unit, necessitating a corresponding front panel change. So my unit originally had the electrical switch, and now it has the mechanical one.) > The one on ebay has no such markings on the front panel. This would > make me think E & F. But the front panel is clearly from an M, as it > only has the ABSTPM registers, not the special register mode (index > registers, etc.). Could be a 2108B or 2112B. -- Dave From KParker at workcover.com Thu Jul 8 18:15:16 2004 From: KParker at workcover.com (Parker, Kevin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: DECstation Message-ID: <2E6595D306CCF54DB703F7BB1E261623621169@minerva.headoffice.corporate.local> Thanks Antonio - I did locate that site but as you pointed out it doesn't specifically mention the 125 but thanks for your advice that they are all much of the much - I wasn't sure - so I'll dig around a couple of those. +++++++++++++++++++ Kevin Parker Web Services Manager WorkCover Corporation p: 08 8233 2548 e: webmaster@workcover.com w: www.workcover.com +++++++++++++++++++ -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Antonio Carlini Sent: Thursday, 8 July 2004 4:48 AM To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: RE: DECstation > Looking for owner manuals for a DECstation 5000/125 IIRC the DECstation 5000-1xx machines are all much of a muchness, differing mainly in processor speeds. You can find manuals for almost any one of them (except, ironically, the 125) over at Manx: http://vt100.net/manx. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org ************************************************************************ This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee only. It may contain information that is protected by legislated confidentiality and/or is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you are prohibited from disseminating, distributing or copying this e-mail. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail may not necessarily be that of the WorkCover Corporation of South Australia. Although precautions have been taken, the sender cannot warrant that this e-mail or any files transmitted with it are free of viruses or any other defect. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and destroy the original e-mail and any copies. ************************************************************************ From jpaul.tardif at sympatico.ca Fri Jul 9 00:13:00 2004 From: jpaul.tardif at sympatico.ca (J. Paul Tardif) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: LGP-30 software Message-ID: <40EE295C.30309@sympatico.ca> Christian, I used to work on an LGP-30 over 37 years ago and was fortunate in having ACT V as the complier for the machine. You will see Graeme Scott's name in the first part of the ACT V compiler tape on your website. After joining IBM in 1969 I happened to encounter Graeme working for Bell Northern Research in Ottawa in 1972 or 1973. He mentioned that he had written ACT V in a rather short time as he was frustrated at how long it took to do things in ACT III. He turned out what I still believe was a masterful piece of software that exploited the LGP-30 hardware capability to its maximum. You will see that the compiled code branches to highly optimized run-time subroutines in the ACT V Run Time portion of the package. The compiled code executed at a very reasonable rate for such a slow machine as every floating point operation ran optimized. The compiler itself used HASH coding to determine if a variable was a reserved word in the language and if not, was stored away in the hash table of variables. Optimal Assembly routines were devised for most drum memory machines like the LGP-30, IBM 650 and Bendix G-15. The ACT V compiler made assembly coding on the LGP-30 unnecessary. It was hard to outperform the compiled ACT V code. Compile times for ACT V were about 1/3 that of ACT III. And with the Load & Go compiler, you didn't need to reload the run-time routines [or the compiler after execution]. The 4096 word machine seemed reasonably sized for many problems. Unfortunately I had lost any and all LGP-30 documentation many years ago but if you put up the ACT V material you have on your web-site, I can probably offer some additional comments as it will likely jog my brain cells that haven't thought about these things for many years. Paul Tardif [former LGP-30 programmer and technician] -- J.Paul Tardif 17 Lyall Avenue Toronto, Ontario CANADA M4E 1V7 (416) 694-5309 FAX: 416 694-2381 From ben_daily4 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 9 22:41:30 2004 From: ben_daily4 at yahoo.com (ben daily) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: JetDirect EX print server Message-ID: <20040710034130.4081.qmail@web51909.mail.yahoo.com> Robert, About a year ago you were having this conversation (through email) and now I happen to have one of these print servers (model J2382 B). Did you locate the particular manual for this unit? Can I get a copy of it if you did? Thank you, Ben JetDirect EX print server Feldman, Robert cctalk@classiccmp.org Thu Jun 12 15:38:01 2003 Previous message: Model 43 Teletype (ASR43) info needed Next message: Osborne 1 Voltage Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] --------------------------------- I believe I have one at home. I'll check tonight and let you know tomorrow.Bob-----Original Message-----From: chris [mailto:cb@mythtech.net]Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 3:16 PMTo: Classic ComputerSubject: JetDirect EX print serverI'm not sure if this is older than 10 years yet, but people on this list have a library of manuals, so I'm asking anyway.Does anyone have a manual to an HP JetDirect EX print server device? Specifically model number J2382.I'm trying to find out how to default it to factory settings, and how to get in and change configurations. Holding the TEST button on power up doesn't seem to do default it (or if it is, it isn't clearing the error condition, but that might also be because it isn't taking the BootP info for its IP address).I have two doing the same thing, and I tend to doubt both are broken, so I'm guessing that the manual HP has on their site for the EX Plus doesn't have the right directions for it (not too surprised).So, anyone have that manual? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From fsteff at bigfoot.com Sat Jul 10 06:56:26 2004 From: fsteff at bigfoot.com (Flemming Steffensen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: Amiga 3400 (A400 prototype) on Ebay. Message-ID: <40EFD96A.5070403@bigfoot.com> Hi all listmembers, I have decided to part with my old Amiga A3400, and hope to see it go to people who has a love for classic computers, and who will honor it for what it is; A unique machine. For more information and pictures, please look at the following URI: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4598&item=5106538803&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW Best regards, -- Flemming From evan947 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 10 15:34:13 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: New York City, anyone? Message-ID: <20040710203413.53460.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> Hey, anyone else here from the city? At 9:00 tonight I'm meeting some VCF attendees (including Hans Franke, all the way from Munich) at the bar of the Carlton Arms hotel (160 E. 25)... if anyone's around, call my cell phone, 617.461.7194. - Evan From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Jul 10 15:46:08 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: Amiga 3400 (A400 prototype) on Ebay. References: <40EFD96A.5070403@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <40F05590.8FDECF77@ccp.com> Flemming Steffensen wrote: > > Hi all listmembers, > > I have decided to part with my old Amiga A3400, and hope > to see it go to people who has a love for classic computers, > and who will honor it for what it is; A unique machine. > Flemming I don't think it is THAT rare, as ISTR that about the time of the Commodore bankruptcy (or just after), some outfit in SK, Canada, was selling 3400's. How many I haven't a clue. Looks like it is just a revamped 3k with the AGA chipset. Probably collectible only in the fact that it wasn't a standard Amiga model. Gary Hildebrand From shirsch at adelphia.net Sat Jul 10 16:11:43 2004 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: Fwd: Harmonicomputer Available In-Reply-To: <20040708201026.GR10710@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <581igHo3c6256S06.1089298442@cmsweb06.cms.usa.net> <20040708201026.GR10710@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, R. D. Davis wrote: > Someone (Cyrus, orangutone@usa.net) over on the SDIY mailing list just > posted the message below, in case anyone's interested in obtaining and > preserving a Harmonicomputer: > > So, I have posted to this and other lists, and emailed various vintage > gear techs, and nobody is interested in fixing an ailing Deltalab > Harmonicomputer. Two techs have suggested I just throw it away, as > the parts are hard to find and it would be cheaper to replace than to > repair. > > Does anybody here have any suggestions for a project? This thing has an > interesting set of front-panel controls, and it is loaded chock-a-block > with a variety of chips, most of which are perfectly good. Garbage or > salvage? The Harmonicomputer is an audio processing unit isn't it? In a former life, I was a Deltalab dealer. We sold quite a number of their audio delay and echo units. At one point we evaluated a device which purported to generate "smart" (ie. key and mode sensitive interval calculation) harmony from a monophonic input. It never worked very well, but I cannot remember what the model name was.. Sounds right, though. From shirsch at adelphia.net Sat Jul 10 16:13:26 2004 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:12 2005 Subject: HP Software License Update. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, Mike Gemeny wrote: > Some people at Hewlett Packard are willing to explore an updated "Non-Commercial > Technology Enthusiast Software License" for older software products. > > As a part of this process your input is encouraged. (By posting to the list HP would > be able to read your comments directly from the list archive, should they choose.) I'd love to see all the various tools and support for the HP64000 systems made available. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 10 16:44:30 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: HP 6101x and PCIB In-Reply-To: from "Philip Pemberton" at Jul 10, 4 08:28:20 am Message-ID: > > In message <20040710022945.C7F423D35@spies.com> > aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) wrote: > > > I'm of the Tony Duell school here.. Document as much as you can if you care > > about using it in the future. > I'm of the "If it's too expensive or you can't get a service manual, build > your own" school. I'm currently working on a fairly simple dual-channel Me too!. Actually, I often build my own stuff for fun anyway... I really don't understand why almost nobody builds their own electronic stuff, using the excuse 'you can buy it cheaper'. But plenty of people make mechanical clocks from scratch, and the result, although a beautiful piece of machinery, is a worse timekeeper than a 5 quid/buck quartz clock. The same should apply to electronic devices (although in most cases the homebrew version has better perfomance!) -tony From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sat Jul 10 04:54:55 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: HP 6101x and PCIB In-Reply-To: References: <20040710022945.C7F423D35@spies.com> Message-ID: <20040710095455.GB27135@bos7.spole.gov> On Sat, Jul 10, 2004 at 08:28:20AM +0100, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Thankfully Agilent were nice enough to leave a scanned copy of > HP's "A Tutorial Guide to the GPIB Bus" on their FTP site Is it easy to find? I have lots of docs from the PET era about basic IEEE-488 details, but when I'm fiddling with HP gear, newer information will probably be needed. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 10-Jul-2004 09:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -85.7 F (-65.4 C) Windchill -129 F (-89.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 12.8 kts Grid 042 Barometer 666.7 mb (11131. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jul 10 19:46:53 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: OT: Dynamic Sciences R-1250 Reciever info? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040710204653.00906c00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I know this a long shot but is anyone here familar with this radio reciever? (It is NOT your run of the mill reciever!) Joe From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat Jul 10 20:17:27 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: 21MX M series need Message-ID: <000701c466e4$d46964b0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Anyone have a 21MX M series box I can borrow parts from for a bit? My M series machine is sick and I'm not sure if it's the front panel or the cpu board. If someone wants a speed upgrade, I can trade them a E series cpu for the slower M series cpu/front panel. At the least, I'd just like to see which one is dead. Jay West From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sat Jul 10 22:14:42 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: New York City, anyone? In-Reply-To: <20040710203413.53460.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Evan, Sorry I was not able to make this [I am actually locatged out on Long Island..], hope you all had a good time. I was at the Rhode Island Compoter Museum Open House / Picnic today [just got in]. The guys there have a nice collection going and a great time was had by all [with the possible exeception of my darling wife who has no interest in this stuff, but was game enough to come along]. One of the most interesting items there was a complete PDP-9. You really do not get a chance to see one of these that often. Of course the is also a PDP-8/I, all flavors of PDP-11, DEcSystem 10,20, Vaxen, and other manufacturers [including a Cray]. If anyone is going to be in that area, make sure you stop by! David >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of evan >>> Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 4:34 PM >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: New York City, anyone? >>> >>> Hey, anyone else here from the city? At 9:00 tonight I'm >>> meeting some VCF attendees (including Hans Franke, all the >>> way from Munich) at the bar of the Carlton Arms hotel (160 >>> E. 25)... if anyone's around, call my cell phone, 617.461.7194. >>> >>> - Evan From curt at atarimuseum.com Sat Jul 10 22:26:20 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: Old IBM 5.25" copy protection References: <003b01c40bd0$00cc0410$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <001801c466f6$d5c9d9e0$2702a8c0@starship1> Hi, I am looking to get around what appears to be at least 3 different copy protection schemes on some old 1983 Atarisoft IBM based videogame disks. Anyone out there know a website with techniques/tools for getting around such things??? Curt From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Jul 11 00:51:34 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: somewhat modern Unisys line printer available Message-ID: <000d01c4670b$1ff7a100$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Local electronics store has a Unisys 9246-7 printer. This is a pretty big/heavy animal. I'm sure it's made by someone else like printronix or citoh or dataproducts or mannesman, etc. Looks like a band printer, parallel interface, high volume in a floor standing cabinet. That's all I know. The guy said he had a buyer from out of state, but the guy doesn't seem to be following through on the deal so he said it was available. If anyone is interested contact me offlist and I'll pass on the contact info. The printer is in St. Louis. No, I won't haul it to VCF, vehicle already full. Jay West From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Jul 11 01:06:41 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: HP 6101x and PCIB In-Reply-To: <40F03621.7020703@citem.org> References: <20040710165302.397B13C15@spies.com> <40F03621.7020703@citem.org> Message-ID: <4728aecc4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <40F03621.7020703@citem.org> Hans B PUFAL wrote: > This one perhaps ? > > http://ftp.agilent.com/pub/mpusup/pc/iop/hpibtut/index-old.html Try again :) ftp://ftp.agilent.com/pub/callpub1/ddt/misc/HPIB_Tut.pdf Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Where we operate at a 90? angle to reality From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sun Jul 11 02:39:31 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: OT: Dynamic Sciences R-1250 Reciever info? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 10 Jul 2004 20:46:53 EDT." <3.0.6.32.20040710204653.00906c00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200407110739.IAA11888@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Joe R." said: > I know this a long shot but is anyone here familar with this radio > reciever? (It is NOT your run of the mill reciever!) The only info I have is a short spec. in Janes Military Communications... you probably know all that info already. This is definitely not a run-of-the-mill job! IEE-488 interface, so it's sort of on topic :-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From jdbryan at acm.org Sat Jul 10 15:51:13 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: Motorola MVME131 In-Reply-To: <200407081537.i68Fbdhq012297@mail.bcpl.net> References: Message-ID: <200407102051.i6AKpEjl010210@mail.bcpl.net> On 8 Jul 2004 at 11:37, J. David Bryan wrote: > OK, will scan this weekend. I'll post a URL for pickup when it's ready. The PDFs are at: http://www.bcpl.net/~dbryan/dropbox/MVME130.pdf http://www.bcpl.net/~dbryan/dropbox/MVMEBUG.pdf (The MVME131 is described in the 130 datasheet.) -- Dave From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 11 04:37:06 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: VCF East helpers Message-ID: Who was volunteering for VCF East duty? Please e-mail me, and soon because I'm printing the name badges. All exhibitors/vendors will get an update/instructions on Sunday. Everyone (on the VCF mailing list) will get a general update on Sunday. Everyone else to whom I owe a favor or a response or whatever, I'm very sorry that I haven't gotten back to you, and you'll be a doll and continue to be patient possibly all the way through VCF East. I'll be out of town all next week and tomorrow is my only day to finish up preparations for VCF East. If you're going to be in Burlington at the end of the week then I'll see you there! Please e-mail me if there's anything urgent that needs to be addressed (with regards to VCF East...everything else will have to wait I'm afraid). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 11 05:05:59 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes In-Reply-To: <16620.29223.889133.32043@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Paul Koning wrote: > Rather than get into political debates, I'll just point out that this > whole discussion has NOTHING to do with the Patriot act. Export > controls have been in existence for decades. They will continue under > either party. The "banned receiver list" is most definitely a new thing. > (You might look into which party was in power when the Clipper chip > debacle was underway.) I didn't like him either. In fact, I don't like any of them. They can all go straight to hell as far as I'm concerned. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 11 05:25:45 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again In-Reply-To: <007b01c4652f$d9423680$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > A 10Mb/sec hub is great if you just want to network a few older machines > together and don't have allot of concurrent users. I still have one 3com hub > in a box on the shelf here somewhere. I switched to 10/100 because moving > ISO images was too slow, and once you started the network became very laggy > and slow (shared 10Mb/sec). Once you have more then one user , wanted > bi-directional ability, and have machines with HD's that can more then > saturate a 10mbs hub a 100Mb/sec switch is worth the effort of running cat5 > wire. Unless your moving lots of mpegs around the network Gigabit ethernet > is a bit overkill these days. My house has been wired with Cat5 since 1996 (when I moved in). And I wired the house I rented before that with Cat5 as far back as 1995 (plus Cat3 for the PBX ;) However, mostly out of laziness and not much luck traditionally in getting 100Mbps hardware for free, I run 10Mbps. I lately added a WAP and will be inserting a 100Mbps hub/router I acquired once I get some time :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Sun Jul 11 05:40:15 2004 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: laptop batteries (Thinkpad 500) ??? In-Reply-To: References: <16620.29223.889133.32043@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20040711063810.021b9ec0@pop-server> Hope this is not off topic. The computer is over ten years old. I have been searching for a place to buy a battery for my Thinkpad 500 and came a cross a web site called laptopadapter.com 1. Has anybody dealt with this company and/or have a comment on buying from them? 2. Any other suggestion where to get a battery for T500? From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 11 05:36:25 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: FW: Pimping VCF East... In-Reply-To: <04f201c465d7$39389500$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Jul 2004, John Allain wrote: > > Everyone should talk about it where ever they go, mentioning it at > > the oddest moments and to include in completely inappropriate > > settings :) > > Have a flyer PDF that I can use? > A hackable one from another time/place might help too. Print this: http://www.vintage.org/2004/east/ ...to a PDF and you're all set ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 11 05:55:30 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Jul 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Paul Koning wrote: > > > Rather than get into political debates, I'll just point out that this > > whole discussion has NOTHING to do with the Patriot act. Export > > controls have been in existence for decades. They will continue under > > either party. > > The "banned receiver list" is most definitely a new thing. Or is it? I'm not sure. It's just such a stupid concept and completely unenforceable. I hate all politicians and all governments. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Sun Jul 11 06:29:56 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601c4673a$67eac620$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > > The "banned receiver list" is most definitely a new thing. > > Or is it? I'm not sure. It's just such a stupid concept and > completely > unenforceable. I've not heard that phrase before, but it sounds like a new name for the Denied Parties List (DPL), which is the set of people with whom you cannot deal at all, ever. Even if they use an intermediary. It's as enforcible as any other crime: if they catch you, they can enforce it :-) > I hate all politicians and all governments. I expect they know that they are disliked - it does not seem to stop them doing what they do though! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Jul 11 06:44:33 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: HP 6101x and PCIB In-Reply-To: <20040710095455.GB27135@bos7.spole.gov> References: <20040710022945.C7F423D35@spies.com> <20040710095455.GB27135@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: In message <20040710095455.GB27135@bos7.spole.gov> Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Sat, Jul 10, 2004 at 08:28:20AM +0100, Philip Pemberton wrote: > > Thankfully Agilent were nice enough to leave a scanned copy of > > HP's "A Tutorial Guide to the GPIB Bus" on their FTP site > > Is it easy to find? It is if you know where to look :) ftp://ftp.agilent.com/pub/callpub1/ddt/misc/HPIB_Tut.pdf > I have lots of docs from the PET era about basic IEEE-488 details, but > when I'm fiddling with HP gear, newer information will probably be needed. The PDF on Agilent's FTP site ("Tutorial Description of the Hewlett Packard Interface Bus") seems to be undated, but it mentions IEEE 488.1, which was first released in 1978, IIRC. I did find the patent HP had on three-wire handshaking - assuming patents are still only valid for 20 years, then it's long since expired. I found the patent in question - US3,810,103; a.k.a. GB1394646. I was going to grab a copy of the patent off GB-esp@cenet, but it was down for maintenance earlier and is still playing up. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... SEGA and Nintendo are combining, they call it Windows NT From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jul 11 07:19:58 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: OT: Dynamic Sciences R-1250 Reciever info? In-Reply-To: <200407110739.IAA11888@citadel.metropolis.local> References: <"Your message of Sat, 10 Jul 2004 20:46:53 EDT." <3.0.6.32.20040710204653.00906c00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040711081958.008fe100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:39 AM 7/11/04 +0100, you wrote: >Hi, > >"Joe R." said: >> I know this a long shot but is anyone here familar with this radio >> reciever? (It is NOT your run of the mill reciever!) > >The only info I have is a short spec. in Janes Military Communications... Actaully I haven't seen that. Is it posted anywhere or can you scan it and send it to me? Joe >you probably know all that info already. >This is definitely not a run-of-the-mill job! > >IEE-488 interface, so it's sort of on topic :-) >-- >Cheers, >Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com > >The future was never like this! > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jul 11 07:31:49 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: laptop batteries (Thinkpad 500) ??? In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20040711063810.021b9ec0@pop-server> References: <16620.29223.889133.32043@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040711083149.00903450@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:40 AM 7/11/04 -0400, you wrote: >Hope this is not off topic. The computer is over ten years old. > >I have been searching for a place to buy a battery for my Thinkpad 500 and >came a cross a web site called laptopadapter.com > >1. Has anybody dealt with this company and/or have a comment on buying from >them? > >2. Any other suggestion where to get a battery for T500? > > Do you have the original battery pack? If so, I'd send it to one of the places that will take it apart and replace the individual cells and reassemble the pack. Just be sure they use GOOD cells and not the cheap Chinese or Mexican made ones. A GOOD set of NiCads will last at least 7 or 8 years instead of one year like the junk ones. I've been using the Japanese made Sanyos and they've worked great for me. I've been dealing with TNR in Sanford, Fla right off of I-4 for years and they've always done a good job for me. They also have a website. You can also buy the individual cells with tabs attached and assemble them yourself but soldering the adjacent tabs together is bulkier than just having a strap between them. And you'll have to figure out a way to attach the battery pack connectors. If you take it to a rebuilder they'll remove the connectors and spot weld them to the new batteries. Don't even think about trying to solder wires or straps directly to the battery cells! I've posted the reasons why here before so I'll skip repeating them but go read the previous posts if in doubt. Joe From tobiaspetschke at gmx.de Sun Jul 11 06:07:18 2004 From: tobiaspetschke at gmx.de (Tobias Petschke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: TI 52 manual Message-ID: <200407111120.i6BBKPhc032875@huey.classiccmp.org> Hello, some time ago, i asked for a manual of the TI-52 calculator in a message board Do you still have such a manual? If yes, would you be so kind and send a scan to me? That would be really great! Thanks a lot Tobias From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sun Jul 11 08:06:58 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: OT: Dynamic Sciences R-1250 Reciever info? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 11 Jul 2004 08:19:58 EDT." <3.0.6.32.20040711081958.008fe100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200407111306.OAA17221@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Joe R." said: > At 08:39 AM 7/11/04 +0100, you wrote: > >Hi, > > > >"Joe R." said: > >> I know this a long shot but is anyone here familar with this radio > >> reciever? (It is NOT your run of the mill reciever!) > > > >The only info I have is a short spec. in Janes Military Communications... > > Actaully I haven't seen that. Is it posted anywhere or can you scan it > and send it to me? I doubt it's online anywhere - they charge about $600 for the book! I don't have a scanner either (yet!) but the entry is so short* I can type it in and email it to you - no problem. I'll do that mow. * And not very helpful... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jul 11 09:13:41 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: OT: Dynamic Sciences R-1250 Reciever info? In-Reply-To: <200407111306.OAA17221@citadel.metropolis.local> References: <"Your message of Sun, 11 Jul 2004 08:19:58 EDT." <3.0.6.32.20040711081958.008fe100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040711101341.008fd230@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Thanks Stan. Joe At 02:06 PM 7/11/04 +0100, you wrote: >Hi, > >"Joe R." said: > >> At 08:39 AM 7/11/04 +0100, you wrote: >> >Hi, >> > >> >"Joe R." said: >> >> I know this a long shot but is anyone here familar with this radio >> >> reciever? (It is NOT your run of the mill reciever!) >> > >> >The only info I have is a short spec. in Janes Military Communications... >> >> Actaully I haven't seen that. Is it posted anywhere or can you scan it >> and send it to me? > >I doubt it's online anywhere - they charge about $600 for the book! >I don't have a scanner either (yet!) but the entry is so short* I can type >it in and email it to you - no problem. I'll do that mow. > >* And not very helpful... > > > >-- >Cheers, >Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com > >The future was never like this! > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jul 11 11:05:27 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: Microrobot Motor Mover? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040711120527.008c63b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone know exactly what this is? I found it in a pile of surplus material yesterday. It appears to be a computerized controller for a robotic arm. The box is marked Microrobot Motor Mover. Inside it has a large circuit board with a 6502 CPU, two 68B05 MCU ICs, a 6522 VIA IC and an EPROM and two external DB-25F connectors. It looks like a complete microcomputer controller that can be controlled by a computer or via the front panel. There's also a daughter board that sits on top of the main circuit board. It also has two Opto 22 OAC% solid state relays that appear to control the AC sockets on the back of them box. Around the large hole in the main board, there are a number of connectors that have cables that run to the back of the box. The connectors are marked Wrist (2 each), Grip, Elbow, Base and Shoulder. I've posted more pictures at . Joe From cannings at earthlink.net Sun Jul 11 10:45:39 2004 From: cannings at earthlink.net (Steven Canning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: laptop batteries (Thinkpad 500) ??? References: <16620.29223.889133.32043@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <6.1.2.0.2.20040711063810.021b9ec0@pop-server> Message-ID: <000b01c4675e$1d8f8bf0$6401a8c0@hal9000> Gene, We don't know where you reside, but below Joe has you covered on the East coast, and here on the "left" coast in California we have a place called "House of Batteries" sales@houseofbatteries.com in Huntington Beach that can get or make any combination of sizes and chemical makeup. They're 100% so far in my book. Good luck. Best regards, Steven ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Ehrich" To: Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 3:40 AM Subject: laptop batteries (Thinkpad 500) ??? > Hope this is not off topic. The computer is over ten years old. > > I have been searching for a place to buy a battery for my Thinkpad 500 and > came a cross a web site called laptopadapter.com > > 1. Has anybody dealt with this company and/or have a comment on buying from > them? > > 2. Any other suggestion where to get a battery for T500? > > > Do you have the original battery pack? If so, I'd send it to one of the places that will take it apart and replace the individual cells and reassemble the pack. Just be sure they use GOOD cells and not the cheap Chinese or Mexican made ones. A GOOD set of NiCads will last at least 7 or 8 years instead of one year like the junk ones. I've been using the Japanese made Sanyos and they've worked great for me. I've been dealing with TNR in Sanford, Fla right off of I-4 for years and they've always done a good job for me. They also have a website. You can also buy the individual cells with tabs attached and assemble them yourself but soldering the adjacent tabs together is bulkier than just having a strap between them. And you'll have to figure out a way to attach the battery pack connectors. If you take it to a rebuilder they'll remove the connectors and spot weld them to the new batteries. Don't even think about trying to solder wires or straps directly to the battery cells! I've posted the reasons why here before so I'll skip repeating them but go read the previous posts if in doubt. Joe From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 11 12:05:59 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: 4004 TIC-TAC-TOE Project In-Reply-To: <000001c4675e$4b288530$6401a8c0@dogp4> Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Jul 2004, John L. Weinrich wrote: > If you look a my web site you'll find that I have available for download the > three main design documents, Hardware, software, & FPGA. The hardware > design document contains all the information to build a complete system, > schematics, parts lists, drawings and such. The software design document > contains all the information to write the software and describes how the > TIC-TAC-TOE game is written. The FPGA design document describes the FPGA > in detail to include all addresses and nibbles (and bits) that the 4004 can > access. > > Also the FPFA schematic file is downloadable (.pdf) and all the software I > have written for the 4004 to date. > > I would have more available such as a .pdf of the 4004 datasheet but my web > site is max'd out (25MB). > > I have and can make available a CD that contains all the 4004 informatio I > have collected off the web and elsewhere that also includes all my design > information. > > Because of your link and the link at Chrisbot > (http://www.chrisbot.com/prog/4004/default.htm) others have searched the web > and found my site. Hi John. I'm posting this message to the Classic Computers mailing list to let other people know about this cool project. If you are having problems with bandwidth limitations, talk to Jay West . He runs the CC mailing list and offers free hosting to people with vintage computing projects. For all reading, John's 4004 Tic-Tac-Toe project website is here: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jsweinrich/ Check it out...it's VERY cool. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 11 12:17:59 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes In-Reply-To: <000601c4673a$67eac620$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Jul 2004, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > The "banned receiver list" is most definitely a new thing. > > > > Or is it? I'm not sure. It's just such a stupid concept and > > completely > > unenforceable. > > I've not heard that phrase before, but it sounds > like a new name for the Denied Parties List (DPL), > which is the set of people with whom you cannot deal > at all, ever. Even if they use an intermediary. Yes, that's it. > > I hate all politicians and all governments. > > I expect they know that they are disliked - it > does not seem to stop them doing what they do > though! Actually, I think you're wrong. Some are so delusional, they think they're doing the people they "serve" a favor. As long as knowledge is available, tyranny will always fail. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From brad at heeltoe.com Sun Jul 11 10:58:47 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: VCF and lisp machines Message-ID: <200407111558.i6BFwlw04948@mwave.heeltoe.com> Hi All If anyone going to VCF and is interested in Symbolics workstations or any type of Lisp Machine (like CADR's), and would like to get together and talk about them, let me know (via email). I should probably have put together a talk about my explorations tracking down old lispm's and emulating lisp machine microcode - maybe for next year. I'll certainly be there, floating around looking for (more) unibus hardware and I'll be at the Atari 7800 talk. -brad Brad Parker From marvin at rain.org Sun Jul 11 12:46:17 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: New Finds Message-ID: <40F17CE9.ED259182@rain.org> I finally have a couple of TI Silent 700 data terminals (looks like the TRS Model 100 ... kind of), 50 - 100 pounds of old databooks, and other books, docs, etc. for the classic computer era. The earliest docs were 1971/1972 Signetics and Fairchild logic databooks. I didn't take complete C-64 system in the hopes someone else would want it (they did), but I did get a box of C-64 docs and software. The best find (at least for me) was an HP Model 46 calculator that badly needs cleaning, but seems in pretty good shape otherwise. I just wish the carrying case and manual had come with it. The duplicates and stuff I don't want for my collection will be posted on VCF as I get time. From geneb at deltasoft.com Sun Jul 11 13:02:11 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: Commodore PET & 64 floppies (Cambridge UK.. again :) In-Reply-To: <1089404231.2816.328.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: If these haven't been spoken for, I'd like them. I can pay shipping across the pond. Tnx. g. On Fri, 9 Jul 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > > Saved from the tip again... > > I have beside me 15 boxes of 5.25" floppies which *appear* to be for the > PET and '64 (mainly '64). Lots are unlabelled (just Commodore floppy > jackets), Lots just marked as 'games', and some other assortments - > serious applications etc. > > Any Commodore enthusiasts want to take this? At the very least hopefully > someone can catalogue them for distribution to others if they're useful > - I haven't got a Commodore PET or 64 on which to look at them... > > cheers > > Jules > > From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun Jul 11 13:03:09 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: Available: RS/6000 & PS/2 parts Message-ID: <200407111303.09265.pat@computer-refuge.org> I'm moving soon, and need to get rid of some things. Everything is priced to move. ;) I've got a set of 4x 64MB ram boards for an RS/6000 7012-3xx or 7013-5xx series machine, they came out of a 580. $5 + shipping for the lot The next lot of stuff came out of a PS/2 model 80: 1) 2x 92F0669 memory cards (1M or 2M, daughter board for model 80) 2) Token Ring card with DE9S connector, 16bit MCA, 25F7540 3) 32bit MCA memory expansion card (EMS?) with 4 SIMMs of unknown size 4) XGA card with 4 socketed ZIP memory chips (8 total) 5) 32bit MCA SCSI card, with internal cable, 15F6561 I'd like $5 + shipping for that as well. Next, 2x1.44MB PS/2-style floppy drives, with cover plates. $5 + shipping total for both. Finally, two AMD LabPro PLD programmers. Handles a bunch of older PALs/GALs, but I've got no documentation or software for them. I've heard that PALASM (the DOS program) works with them; PALASM is freely downloadable from somewhere, I don't remember where, but google found it before. $5 + shipping for both. That's all for now, I may post more stuff in the next few days as I sort through and move things. I'll randomly pick someone if more than one person wants one lot. I really don't want to split up lots, as that means I've got more boxes to ship. Anything not claimed gets trashed Tuesday evening. Don't bother asking on/after Wednesday, 7/15/04, as it'll be gone. Shipping will be from 47906. If you're going to be at VCF East, I can bring the stuff to you there, as I'll be going. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From allain at panix.com Sun Jul 11 13:03:55 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: FW: Pimping VCF East... References: Message-ID: <003001c46771$6ee9d4c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >> Have a flyer PDF that I can use? >> A hackable one from another time/place might help too. >Print this: > http://www.vintage.org/2004/east/ > ...to a PDF and you're all set ;) I dunno, there sure are a lot of "click here"'s for a poster.... John A. From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jul 11 13:36:01 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: VCF and lisp machines References: <200407111558.i6BFwlw04948@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <40F18891.6080209@tiac.net> There is a CADR in the area, several people have been asking about it, and its current owner (local to VCF East) may be at the show. I sold my CADR and all the LMI spares to a list member some time back, and I gave my 3640 away also. But I was the 'last' factory trained CADR support person from LMI. I do have a set of Lambda boards however, and a few NuMachine boards. I can place them at my VCF Vendor booth if your interested. If you want to talk lispm hardware, look for me at the HP 1000 minicomputer exhibit, or at the vendor booth selling the Imsai 8080 system. Brad Parker wrote: >Hi All > >If anyone going to VCF and is interested in Symbolics workstations or >any type of Lisp Machine (like CADR's), and would like to get together >and talk about them, let me know (via email). > >I should probably have put together a talk about my explorations >tracking down old lispm's and emulating lisp machine microcode - maybe >for next year. > >I'll certainly be there, floating around looking for (more) unibus >hardware and I'll be at the Atari 7800 talk. > >-brad > >Brad Parker > From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Jul 11 18:10:04 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: laptop batteries (Thinkpad 500) ??? In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20040711063810.021b9ec0@pop-server> References: <16620.29223.889133.32043@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <6.1.2.0.2.20040711063810.021b9ec0@pop-server> Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Jul 2004, Gene Ehrich wrote: > Hope this is not off topic. The computer is over ten years old. Perfectly on-topic > > I have been searching for a place to buy a battery for my Thinkpad 500 and > came a cross a web site called laptopadapter.com > Try: www.acsparts.com I have restored a couple of Toshibas using thier rather eclectic collection of Stuff.... you don't list the actual battery type, but under the 'Thinkpad' 'Parts' 'batteries' sections are listed a bunch of various items in this regard. Cheers John From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jul 11 19:58:14 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: VCF East helpers References: Message-ID: <40F1E226.3090605@tiac.net> Did anyone tell this guy its already Sunday? If we can set up Thursday, its already too late to take time off work. I can only hope that exhibits can be set up LATE Thursday evening, or I'll be missing the speakers while assembling systems on the exhibit floor. Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >Who was volunteering for VCF East duty? Please e-mail me, and soon >because I'm printing the name badges. > >All exhibitors/vendors will get an update/instructions on Sunday. > >Everyone (on the VCF mailing list) will get a general update on Sunday. > >Everyone else to whom I owe a favor or a response or whatever, I'm very >sorry that I haven't gotten back to you, and you'll be a doll and >continue to be patient possibly all the way through VCF East. I'll be out >of town all next week and tomorrow is my only day to finish up >preparations for VCF East. > >If you're going to be in Burlington at the end of the week then I'll see >you there! > >Please e-mail me if there's anything urgent that needs to be addressed >(with regards to VCF East...everything else will have to wait I'm afraid). > From cbajpai at comcast.net Sun Jul 11 20:20:26 2004 From: cbajpai at comcast.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: Anybody going to VCF-East have cheap working Oscilloscope/Logic Analyzer to sell? Message-ID: <000101c467ae$6a4650a0$707ba8c0@xpdesk> I have a couple of old 8K PET 2001s that need to be fixed.if anyone has some extra test equipment that they no longer need I (and the PETs) would really appreciate it! Let me know what you have and want for it. Even if you aren't going to VCF/East I'd pay all the shipping costs. Looking forward to seeing you guys at VCF/East! Thanks, Chandra From grooveomatic at gmail.com Sun Jul 11 20:39:48 2004 From: grooveomatic at gmail.com (Andrew Berg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: Unhappy HP-85 In-Reply-To: <000101c467ae$6a4650a0$707ba8c0@xpdesk> References: <000101c467ae$6a4650a0$707ba8c0@xpdesk> Message-ID: Hello all! :) A while back, I purchased a smoking HP85. I'm finally getting into the fixing it stage... The part in question looks to be a transformer labelled 9100-0457 / 906933. It has a similar, happier cousin labelled 9100-0455 / 906933. The caps are going to be replaced, but the transformer itself has already turned black and gooey. *Sighs* I was wondering if anyone might roughly know the values of the fellow offhand. Thanks very kindly! :) Andy From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Jul 11 21:04:33 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: Anybody going to VCF-East have cheap working Oscilloscope/Logic Analyzer to sell? In-Reply-To: <000101c467ae$6a4650a0$707ba8c0@xpdesk> References: <000101c467ae$6a4650a0$707ba8c0@xpdesk> Message-ID: <20040712020433.GA32466@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Jul 11, 2004 at 09:20:26PM -0400, Chandra Bajpai wrote: > I have a couple of old 8K PET 2001s that need to be fixed.if anyone has > some extra test equipment that they no longer need I (and the PETs) > would really appreciate it! I won't be at VCF-East (and I don't have any surplus test gear), but I do have a couple of recommendations for your PETs... If they come up to the random-character screen (no "*** COMMODORE BASIC ***" banner) or if the RAM reads less than you expect for an 8K machine, the first thing I'd suspect are the sockets, the next thing are the SRAMs themselves. Given how hard it is to find those SRAMs, it might be easier to make a daughter card that fits into the CPU socket that has a JEDEC SRAM socket (for a 6116, 6264, 62256...), and use A15 as a low-true enable to put it below $8000. The first thing, of course, would be to check the board for proper voltages and ripple. High ripple would mostly likely be caused by dry electrolytic caps, given that these machines are ~25 years old. I had an 8K PET once that I sold at least 10 years ago... it was incredibly unreliable... I ended up putting a folded cardboard wedge under the middle of the main board to flex it "just right" so it would come up most of the time. I don't think it was a cold solder joint - I think it just needed new SRAM sockets. Once you do get them working, don't forget that BASIC 1.0 ROMs have problems with the IEEE-488 implementation. I can't recall the nature of the issue, but they don't place nice with most GPIB gear, not even Commodore's own stuff. BASIC 2.0 fixed that. If you are observing disk drive timeouts or lockups, it could be related to that. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 12-Jul-2004 01:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -89.2 F (-67.3 C) Windchill -129.8 F (-89.90 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.5 kts Grid 090 Barometer 675.9 mb (10780. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jul 11 21:18:32 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: Anybody going to VCF-East have cheap working Oscilloscope/Logic Analyzer to sell? In-Reply-To: <20040712020433.GA32466@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: > Given how hard it is to find those SRAMs, it might be easier to make a > daughter card that fits into the CPU socket that has a JEDEC SRAM socket > (for a 6116, 6264, 62256...), and use A15 as a low-true enable to put it > below $8000. 2114s are hard to find? Are they some weird variant (speed, power)? William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Sun Jul 11 21:18:41 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: Large-capacity 5.25" SCSI disks (Cambridge again) References: <1089444338.3905.13.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <40F1F500.7222A4AE@compsys.to> >Jules Richardson wrote: > I've got the following 5.25" FH SCSI drives going spare: > Three Seagate ST410800 (9GB) Jerome Fine replies: I am interested in the ST410800 drives. I have always wanted to see what RT-11 can do with 256 RT-11 partitions all at once! I am in Toronto. Are any still available? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 11 21:16:31 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: Unhappy HP-85 In-Reply-To: from "Andrew Berg" at Jul 11, 4 09:39:48 pm Message-ID: > > Hello all! :) > > A while back, I purchased a smoking HP85. > > I'm finally getting into the fixing it stage... The part in question > looks to be a transformer labelled 9100-0457 / 906933. It has a > similar, happier cousin labelled 9100-0455 / 906933. The caps are Where is this part in the machine? On the PSU/printer board, the video board, or what? You can get the HP85 'Assembly Level Service Manual' on one of the HP Museum CD-ROMs (look at http://www.hpmuseum.org/). Despite the name, it does include schematics, but it won't contain transformer winding details. You may have to work out what the transformer was from the circuit. -tony From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Jul 11 21:31:59 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: Anybody going to VCF-East have cheap working Oscilloscope/Logic Analyzer to sell? In-Reply-To: References: <20040712020433.GA32466@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <20040712023159.GA5231@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Jul 11, 2004 at 10:18:32PM -0400, William Donzelli wrote: > > Given how hard it is to find those SRAMs, it might be easier to make a > > daughter card that fits into the CPU socket that has a JEDEC SRAM socket > > (for a 6116, 6264, 62256...), and use A15 as a low-true enable to put it > > below $8000. > > 2114s are hard to find? Are they some weird variant (speed, power)? While I think that the last round of static PETs may have had 2114s, every one I've ever seen used 6550s, a 22 pin .4"-wide DIP... http://www.amiga-stuff.com/hardware/6550.html I don't know without consulting the schematics if the static PET board depend on there being 4 chip selects, but if it doesn't, it would be easy to make a small PCB that fits in a 6550 socket, and houses a 2114. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 12-Jul-2004 02:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -89.5 F (-67.5 C) Windchill -129.6 F (-89.8 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.1 kts Grid 081 Barometer 675.9 mb (10780. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jul 11 21:45:23 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: Anybody going to VCF-East have cheap working Oscilloscope/Logic Analyzer to sell? In-Reply-To: <20040712023159.GA5231@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: > While I think that the last round of static PETs may have had 2114s, > every one I've ever seen used 6550s, a 22 pin .4"-wide DIP... OK, they could be trouble. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From grooveomatic at gmail.com Sun Jul 11 21:51:08 2004 From: grooveomatic at gmail.com (Andrew Berg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: Unhappy HP-85 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Drat... what is wrong with me? :) The fellow is located on the PSU / Printer board - there are three transformers on there; it looks like the two larger ones are identical. It's one of the two larger ones - it seems as if the two giant screw-on caps on that board were shorted... they're going to be replaced. Can probably rewind the transformer if I can't find something suitable, just am feeling a bit lazy. :) Thanks for the kind reply, Tony! Andy On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 03:16:31 +0100 (BST), Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Hello all! :) > > > > A while back, I purchased a smoking HP85. > > > > I'm finally getting into the fixing it stage... The part in question > > looks to be a transformer labelled 9100-0457 / 906933. It has a > > similar, happier cousin labelled 9100-0455 / 906933. The caps are > > Where is this part in the machine? On the PSU/printer board, the video > board, or what? > > You can get the HP85 'Assembly Level Service Manual' on one of the HP > Museum CD-ROMs (look at http://www.hpmuseum.org/). Despite the name, it > does include schematics, but it won't contain transformer winding > details. You may have to work out what the transformer was from the circuit. > > -tony From wacarder at usit.net Sun Jul 11 22:47:13 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:13 2005 Subject: RK05 question Message-ID: Can RK05s that were used on a PDP-8 be used on a PDP-11? It seems that I read something about the sectoring being different. Ashley From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jul 12 00:51:22 2004 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: laptop batteries (Thinkpad 500) ??? In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20040711063810.021b9ec0@pop-server> References: <16620.29223.889133.32043@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040711224844.00a762a0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 06:40 AM 7/11/04 -0400, Gene Ehrich wrote: >Hope this is not off topic. The computer is over ten years old. > >I have been searching for a place to buy a battery for my Thinkpad 500 and >came a cross a web site called laptopadapter.com > >1. Has anybody dealt with this company and/or have a comment on buying >from them? > >2. Any other suggestion where to get a battery for T500? The NiCad Lady is a person local to me that rebuilds batteries, and from all reports does a good job with fresh cells etc. One caution, her website throws many people off as it only shows prices for new batteries, or at least thats the way it was, and you need to email and ask for rebuilt prices. Or just do it yourself. From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Mon Jul 12 03:21:39 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: Old IBM Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.0.20040712091324.0474e1e0@albert> An old IBM, XT? Ends midnight tonight (UK time) http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5107012017&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT As it's not got any bids yet, and is right around the corner from me (so can collect easily) and I haven't seen one in the flesh since they were brand new, I'll put in a bid for the minimum just to save it! :-) Should I actually win it at that price, then it'll be up for grabs for anybody on here who wants it - I don't have a lot of room to keep it for too long after I've had a nosey. (and have a pile of other stuff to go through and find homes for - watch this space) Rob From cmcnabb at gmail.com Mon Jul 12 04:59:24 2004 From: cmcnabb at gmail.com (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: RK05 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <145cecdd04071202597e75099c@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 23:47:13 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > Can RK05s that were used on a PDP-8 be used on > a PDP-11? It seems that I read something about > the sectoring being different. > > Ashley > > You are correct. The sectioning is different. 16 sector for the PDP-8 versus 12 sector for the PDP-11. If you have a bunch of 16 sector PDP-8 cartridges that you can't use, I'd be willing to take them off your hands. From dave04a at dunfield.com Mon Jul 12 05:34:42 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: Anybody going to VCF-East have cheap working Oscilloscope/LogicAnalyzer to sell? Message-ID: <20040712103442.SLTZ7326.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> >If they come up to the random-character screen (no "*** COMMODORE BASIC ***" >banner) I've run into about 1/2 dozen PET's over the years which have had ROM's go bad. Seems to be a real problem with the devices Commodore used. Often the symptom is as described above, sometimes it works "a bit" and then dies (depends where the code is corrupted). You can get most of the PET ROM images from the VICE simulator archive. Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From sastevens at earthlink.net Mon Jul 12 07:02:02 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: Available: RS/6000 & PS/2 parts In-Reply-To: <200407111303.09265.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200407111303.09265.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <20040712070202.6426c5b6.sastevens@earthlink.net> Hi, I am interested in two of the items you listed: The 7012 memory boards, and the AMD PLD programmers. I'm south of Indianapolis in Franklin. Let me know if I have 'dibs' on either item and we can figure out how to arrange payment for shipping, etc. Scott On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 13:03:09 -0500 Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I'm moving soon, and need to get rid of some things. Everything is > priced to move. ;) > > I've got a set of 4x 64MB ram boards for an RS/6000 7012-3xx or > 7013-5xx series machine, they came out of a 580. $5 + shipping for > the lot > > The next lot of stuff came out of a PS/2 model 80: > > 1) 2x 92F0669 memory cards (1M or 2M, daughter board for model 80) > 2) Token Ring card with DE9S connector, 16bit MCA, 25F7540 > 3) 32bit MCA memory expansion card (EMS?) with 4 SIMMs of unknown size > 4) XGA card with 4 socketed ZIP memory chips (8 total) > 5) 32bit MCA SCSI card, with internal cable, 15F6561 > > I'd like $5 + shipping for that as well. > > Next, 2x1.44MB PS/2-style floppy drives, with cover plates. $5 + > shipping total for both. > > Finally, two AMD LabPro PLD programmers. Handles a bunch of older > PALs/GALs, but I've got no documentation or software for them. I've > heard that PALASM (the DOS program) works with them; PALASM is freely > downloadable from somewhere, I don't remember where, but google found > it before. $5 + shipping for both. > > That's all for now, I may post more stuff in the next few days as I > sort through and move things. > > I'll randomly pick someone if more than one person wants one lot. I > really don't want to split up lots, as that means I've got more boxes > to ship. Anything not claimed gets trashed Tuesday evening. Don't > bother asking on/after Wednesday, 7/15/04, as it'll be gone. > > Shipping will be from 47906. If you're going to be at VCF East, I can > > bring the stuff to you there, as I'll be going. > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ > The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From ssandau at gwi.net Sun Jul 11 14:07:21 2004 From: ssandau at gwi.net (Steve Sandau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: [rescue] Available: RS/6000 & PS/2 parts In-Reply-To: <200407111303.09265.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200407111303.09265.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <40F18FE9.3040005@gwi.net> > The next lot of stuff came out of a PS/2 model 80: > > 1) 2x 92F0669 memory cards (1M or 2M, daughter board for model 80) > 2) Token Ring card with DE9S connector, 16bit MCA, 25F7540 > 3) 32bit MCA memory expansion card (EMS?) with 4 SIMMs of unknown size > 4) XGA card with 4 socketed ZIP memory chips (8 total) > 5) 32bit MCA SCSI card, with internal cable, 15F6561 > > I'd like $5 + shipping for that as well. > Anyone ask about this lot yet? I actually *have* a model 80... Steve From jdbryan at acm.org Sun Jul 11 14:36:12 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: HP Software License Update. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200407111936.i6BJaDYM007137@mail.bcpl.net> On 8 Jul 2004 at 20:47, Mike Gemeny wrote: > We would also like to ask if anyone knows the date of release of the > last version of HP1000 RTE and also if anyone may know the date of the > End-Of-Life of the HP1000 product line. I have appended a "Software Products History" file that I downloaded from HP's site abort six years ago. It's dated January 1997. > Some people at HP are considering a recomendation for a license to > software that is older than some age, and/or products that were at > end-of-life more than some number of years ago. As the following shows, RTE-III is the oldest version listed. I presume that everything before that (RTE-B, RTE-II, etc.) had fallen off of the list some time prior. Given that HP has made RTE-6/VM freely available via Interex, I cannot think of an objection to making earlier RTEs available. Personally, I would like to see: * RTE-II for those with HP 2100s or 21MXes without DMS or large memories. * RTE-IVB for those with M-series 21MXes or those with E-/F-series without the VMA/OS firmware. * RTE-6/VM for those with E-/F-series with VMA firmware. RTE-III and RTE-IV(A) are interesting historical footnotes but don't offer anything over RTE-IVB, as far as I know. Also, adding the IMAGE, BASIC, FORTRAN, Ada (!), and Pascal products would greatly add to the utility and interest of the systems. RTE-IVB and RTE-6/VM both require operational RTE systems ("grandfathers") in order to generate and install systems, so providing just the system binary files as the Interex contribution does will not allow one to install the system on a "virgin" machine. To be useful, such contributions would also have to include grandfather system images to allow off-line restoration. Given that RTEs -II through -6/VM will not run on A-series hardware (and, conversely, RTE-A will not run on M/E/F-series systems), the fact that the A-series systems are still within support life shouldn't have any effect on the release of earlier software, I should think. -- Dave ----- Begin included file ----- SOFTWARE PRODUCT HISTORY PRODUCT DESCRIPTION CPU/OS EOSL* ------- ----------------------------- ------------- ----- 12790A Multipoint F/W - 9/99 12824A VIS IVB 12/99 12829A VIS MEF/6 12/99 13306A FFP F/W E 11/89 13306B FFP/DMI Group - 9/99 13307A DMI F/W E-Series E 6/94 13307B DMI F/W E-Series E 9/99 24396A Paper Tape EF 6/89 24396B 2.5 MByte Disk Cartridge EF 6/89 24396C 10 MByte Disk Cartridge EF 11/92 24396D 7970B Mag Tape 800 EF 11/92 24396E 7970E Mag Tape 1600 EF 9/99 24396F 264x Minicartridge EF 11/92 24396H CS-80 CTD EF 9/99 24397A L-Series Diags. L 4/90 24398A Peripheral Diagnostics L 4/90 24398B Peripheral Diagnostics A 1/93 (put into 24612B) 24600A Diag. Pack. - Intell. Comm. I/F L 10/86 24601A Measurement & Control Diags L 11/84 24612A Offline Diagnostics L,A 1/93 (put into 24612B) 24612B Offline Diagnostics A active 91745A DATASAFE/1000 6/VM 01/91 91747A DATASHARE/1000 6/VM 01/91 91750A DS/1000-IV A,6/VM active 91751A X.25/1000 A,6/VM active 91790A NS-ARPA/1000 A active 91781A RJE/1000-II Remote Job Entry A,6/VM 02/2001 91782A MRJE/1000 A,MEF 10/95 91784A PMF/1000 A,MEF 10/95 92049B A990 Microprogramming Package A990 6/98 92050A Datapair/1000 A active 92060A RTE-III M/2,3,4,4B 11/83 92060B RTE-III Soft Pack - 11/83 92061A RTE Microprogramming for MEF MEF/2,3,4,4B 8/2000 92062A RTE Data Process MEF 10/84 92063A Image/1000 MEF/2,3,4,4B 8/85 92066A Measurement and Control MEF/M,2,3,4,4B 10/89 92067A RTE-IV MEF 3/86 92068A RTE-IVB EF 1/92 92068E RTE-IVE Mem-Based MEF 9/99 92069A IMAGE/1000 A,6,4B,L,XL active 92070A RTE-L L 7/86 92070B RTE-L (execute only) L 5/89 92071A RTE-XL L 4/90 92072A OEM Starter Kit - 4/90 92073A IMAGE/1000-L w/out Query L/L,XL 4/82 92076A BASIC/1000-L L,A/XL,A 4/90 92077A RTE-A A active 92078A VC+ A active 92080A Datacap/1000-II EF,A/4B,6,A 7/89 92081A IMAGE/1000-II EF,A/6,A active 92082A ACCEL/1000 1/86 92083A Profile Monitor EF,A/A,6,4,IVB 2/2001 92084A RTE-6/VM EF 9/99 92086A RTE-6/VM Upgrade Kit (from IVB) EF 9/99 92091A HPSPICE Circuit Simulation Prog MEF/6 3/90 92101A BASIC/1000D MEF active 92120A PMC/1000 (Process Monit & Cntrl)MEF 7/89 (superseded by 92121A PMC/1000 A 1/93 92121A) 92122A GIS/1000 (Graphics Intf. S/W) A 3/93 92125A ADA/1000 A 2/99 92130A QDM/1000 (Quality Decision Mgmt)MEF 7/89 (upgrade to A-Ser) 92131A QDM/1000 A 10/96 92140A PCL/1000-AB MEF 7/89 92400A DAS Utility Library MEF/M,2,3,IV,IVB 10/89 92561A PORT/RX A 6/2001 92571A HP C/1000 A active 92826A S/W Man. Pack. MEF 11/84 92826B RTE-IV Manual Pack MEF 11/92 92827A RTE-M Manual Pack M 12/84 92832A PASCAL/1000-IVB (exec. only L) MEF,L 1/92 92833A PASCAL/1000 MEF/A,6 active 92834A FORTRAN-4X Compiler MEF/A,L,XL,4B,6 1/92 92835A SIGNAL/1000 (Fast Fourier) F/6,IVB 1/92 92836A FORTRAN-77 Compiler A or 6 MEF/A active 92840A Graphics Plotting Software MEF/M,4,IVB 9/89 92841A Graphics/1000-II DGL V.1.0 A,4B,L,XL 1/92 92842A Graphics/1000-II AGP V.1.0 A,4B,L,XL 1/92 92843X Graphics/1000-II Device Hndlers MEF/A 1/92 92851A HW History Library MEF 9/99 92852E RTE-IV Upgrade Kit MEF 11/85 92853A Hardware History Library L-Ser. L 4/90 92854A PASCAL/1000-XL (exec. only L) L/A 4/90 92857A BASIC/1000C MEF/A,6 2/2001 92860A Symbolic Debug EF,A/A,6 active 92861A Graphics/1000-II DGL V.2.0 MEF,A/A,6 active 92862A Graphics/1000-II AGP V.2.0 MEF,A/A,6 active 92903A Datacap/1000 S/W Data Capture MEF/IV 2/86 94200A PCIF/1000 A 7/90 (replace w/94200B) 94200B PCIF/1000 A active 94201A PCIF UDI - 7/84 94202A PCIF Allen-Bradley Handler A active 94203A PCIF Gould-Modicon Handler A active 94204A PCIF Siemens Handler A active 94205A PCIF Telemecanique Handler A 9/96 94206A PCIF General Electric Handler A 9/96 94207A TI Handler A 9/96 94250A FORMS/1000-A EF/6 active 94250B FORMS/1000-B A active 98170A ARPA Services/1000 A active B2690A SoftBench Link/1000 HP-UX active B2692A SoftBench Link/1000 HP-UX/700 active B2693A SoftBench Link/1000 HP-UX/800 active B2695A GFoX HP-UX active B2697A GFoX HP-UX/700 active B2698A GFoX HP-UX/800 active * EOSL = End of Support Life Last updated: Fri Jan 24 13:36:47 1997 ----- End included file ----- From vrs at msn.com Mon Jul 12 07:30:47 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: RK05 question References: <145cecdd04071202597e75099c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <008c01c4680c$0f652680$6700a8c0@vrshome.msn.com> From: "Christopher McNabb" > On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 23:47:13 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > Can RK05s that were used on a PDP-8 be used on > > a PDP-11? It seems that I read something about > > the sectoring being different. > > > > Ashley > > You are correct. The sectioning is different. 16 sector for the > PDP-8 versus 12 sector for the PDP-11. If you have a bunch of 16 > sector PDP-8 cartridges that you can't use, I'd be willing to take > them off your hands. I could help relieve someone of the burden of excess PDP-8 cartridges, too :-)! The question lurking in my mind, though, is are the 'F' cartridges different from the 'J' cartridges? (I have a couple of RK05F drives that I'd like to convert to PDP-8 use.) Vince From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Mon Jul 12 08:44:33 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: Dynamic Sciences R-1250 Reciever info? References: <3.0.6.32.20040710204653.00906c00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <008401c46816$661f19e0$0200a8c0@geoff> http://www.telford-electronics.com/receivers.htm Above have receiver for sale for ?900. May be they have info as well ? Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 1:46 AM Subject: OT: Dynamic Sciences R-1250 Reciever info? > I know this a long shot but is anyone here familar with this radio > reciever? (It is NOT your run of the mill reciever!) > > Joe From wacarder at usit.net Mon Jul 12 08:54:49 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: RK05 question In-Reply-To: <008c01c4680c$0f652680$6700a8c0@vrshome.msn.com> Message-ID: How about this? Does anyone have any PDP11 RK05s that they would like to swap me for some of the PDP8 RK05s? I smell a trade brewing (I hope). Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of vrs Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 8:31 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: RK05 question From: "Christopher McNabb" > On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 23:47:13 -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > > Can RK05s that were used on a PDP-8 be used on > > a PDP-11? It seems that I read something about > > the sectoring being different. > > > > Ashley > > You are correct. The sectioning is different. 16 sector for the > PDP-8 versus 12 sector for the PDP-11. If you have a bunch of 16 > sector PDP-8 cartridges that you can't use, I'd be willing to take > them off your hands. I could help relieve someone of the burden of excess PDP-8 cartridges, too :-)! The question lurking in my mind, though, is are the 'F' cartridges different from the 'J' cartridges? (I have a couple of RK05F drives that I'd like to convert to PDP-8 use.) Vince From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Mon Jul 12 08:50:00 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: Dynamic Sciences R-1250 Reciever info? References: <3.0.6.32.20040710204653.00906c00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <008801c46817$2cd660c0$0200a8c0@geoff> Also webferret search engine tells me there is a reference to receiver on this page : http://www.hri.org/cgi-bin/2ascii?http%3A//cryptome.org/ It's probably buried in one of the references somewhere - couldn't find it with a cursory examination. Good luck . Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 1:46 AM Subject: OT: Dynamic Sciences R-1250 Reciever info? > I know this a long shot but is anyone here familar with this radio > reciever? (It is NOT your run of the mill reciever!) > > Joe From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Jul 12 09:28:50 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: Free stuff (UK) again References: Message-ID: <16626.40994.280000.559337@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Fred" == Fred N van Kempen writes: Fred> On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, Tony Duell wrote: >> > Does nobody use 10Mbps any more? Fred> Yes. I do. Fred> With classic systems, 100Mbps or up does not make any sense. Fred> And, in some cases, not even full duplex and/or switching makes Fred> sense; I have had several instances of a machine going nuts Fred> after being connected to a switch instead of a hub- protocol Fred> incompatibilities. Good point; few old systems can go much over 10 Mb/s. (The better VAXen, perhaps, and Alphas, of course, but certainly not a PDP11.) Full duplex appeared in 10BaseT, but I wouldn't be surprised to see devices that don't understand it. Switches, on the other hand -- it seems VERY strange for that to break things. They have been around since the dawn of Ethernet, and they are basically invisible. The only issue I can think of is that switches can easily send back to back packets, and some misdesigned NICs (the 3C501 comes to mind) can't handle back to back packets. At one time we at DEC were asked to implement a "don't send back to back packets" feature because of this -- which we refused to do, vehemently... paul From tony.eros at machm.org Mon Jul 12 09:44:09 2004 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: VCF and lisp machines In-Reply-To: <40F18891.6080209@tiac.net> Message-ID: <200407121446.KAA21407@smtp.9netave.com> Bob - I'd definitely be interested if you brought your boards. -- Tony -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bob Shannon Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 2:36 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: VCF and lisp machines There is a CADR in the area, several people have been asking about it, and its current owner (local to VCF East) may be at the show. I sold my CADR and all the LMI spares to a list member some time back, and I gave my 3640 away also. But I was the 'last' factory trained CADR support person from LMI. I do have a set of Lambda boards however, and a few NuMachine boards. I can place them at my VCF Vendor booth if your interested. If you want to talk lispm hardware, look for me at the HP 1000 minicomputer exhibit, or at the vendor booth selling the Imsai 8080 system. Brad Parker wrote: >Hi All > >If anyone going to VCF and is interested in Symbolics workstations or >any type of Lisp Machine (like CADR's), and would like to get together >and talk about them, let me know (via email). > >I should probably have put together a talk about my explorations >tracking down old lispm's and emulating lisp machine microcode - maybe >for next year. > >I'll certainly be there, floating around looking for (more) unibus >hardware and I'll be at the Atari 7800 talk. > >-brad > >Brad Parker > From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Jul 12 09:49:38 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes References: <16620.29223.889133.32043@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <16626.42242.771000.730357@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Vintage" == Vintage Computer Festival writes: Vintage> On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Paul Koning wrote: >> Rather than get into political debates, I'll just point out that >> this whole discussion has NOTHING to do with the Patriot act. >> Export controls have been in existence for decades. They will >> continue under either party. Vintage> The "banned receiver list" is most definitely a new thing. It's called "denied parties list" and it most definitely was there before the Patriot act. paul From vrs at msn.com Mon Jul 12 09:52:47 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: RK05 question References: Message-ID: <00ce01c4681f$e65ac600$6700a8c0@vrshome.msn.com> > Does anyone have any PDP11 RK05s that they would > like to swap me for some of the PDP8 RK05s? > > I smell a trade brewing (I hope). If someone can reassure me that the RK05J cartridges can be reformatted for RK05F use, I'd be willing to tear into my RK05Fs to liberate their cartridges. I also can't vouch for my cartridges' usefulness, given the drives have been unused for quite some time, and I have no working -11 to try them with. At least one drive has had the plastic elbow shatter during shipment; hopefully none of the debris made it into the cartridge (but I'd recommend cleaning it before use). Vince From aek at spies.com Mon Jul 12 10:12:06 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: VCF and lisp machines Message-ID: <20040712151206.8ACF53C83@spies.com> Bob, Bill VonHagen has a Lambda and would be interested in those boards, and I can use the NuMachine ones in a computer that I have. From foxvideo at wincom.net Mon Jul 12 10:10:11 2004 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: Book, history of Bletchley Park Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040712110008.01b0e228@smtp.wincom.net> For anyone interested, the book"Action This Day", by Michael Smith and Ralph Erskine, which is a history of Bletchley Park, is available for $12.99 Canadian from: Hampstead House Books, 80 Doncaster Ave. Thornhill Ont. 1-800-361-1576 www.hhbooks.com I haven't had a chance to read mine, but it looks interesting. Cheers Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From aek at spies.com Mon Jul 12 10:23:10 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: RK05 question Message-ID: <20040712152310.AF7AD3C9F@spies.com> Can RK05s that were used on a PDP-8 be used on a PDP-11? == The drives are the same, the packs on PDP-8's are 16 sector instead of 12. I'll trade you two tested/cleaned 12 sector packs for every 16 sector one that you have. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Jul 12 10:43:06 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: Book, history of Bletchley Park In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20040712110008.01b0e228@smtp.wincom.net> References: <6.1.2.0.0.20040712110008.01b0e228@smtp.wincom.net> Message-ID: <1089646986.12950.105.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-07-12 at 15:10, Charles E. Fox wrote: > For anyone interested, the book"Action This Day", by Michael Smith and > Ralph Erskine, which is a history of Bletchley Park, Can't comment on this particular book, but I wonder which history it depicts? :-) (It's interesting actually working at the place - all sorts of wonderful stories get heard, and new information about the site seems to turn up daily) Much about the site is still classified, and will no doubt remain that way for many years to come. To anyone planning an actual visit, my advice would be to see the site sooner rather than later - F Block was destroyed some years ago, G Block already lies decaying outside the boundary fence on housing development land, C and D Blocks lie in ruin despite the important parts they played in the war (possibly more so than the preserved structures on the site) and H Block (site of the world's first purpose-built computer room, and current home to the computer Museum, Bombe and Colossus rebuild project) faces a very much uncertain future. cheers, Jules From tomj at wps.com Mon Jul 12 14:27:44 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: Vaian 620? In-Reply-To: <20040710044305.19ED33D3D@spies.com> References: <20040710044305.19ED33D3D@spies.com> Message-ID: <1089660463.3812.33.camel@dhcp-251251> I had a 622/i, an 18-bit version, the 620 with the 6-bit slices all used. It died the horrible death of wirewrap decay. I pitched it and the mauals (gulp) back in 86 or so, what a horrible mistake. On Fri, 2004-07-09 at 21:43, Al Kossow wrote: > > Does anybody around still have one of these that works? > > yes, along with all the documentation > > am looking for software in any form (tape, paper tape or disc) > > There are several different 620's BTW > 620-I > 620-L > 620-L/100 From aek at spies.com Mon Jul 12 14:56:17 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: Vaian 620? Message-ID: <20040712195617.C1BDB3CA0@spies.com> I had a 622/i, an 18-bit version, the 620 with the 6-bit slices all used. It died the horrible death of wirewrap decay. I pitched it and the mauals (gulp) back in 86 or so, what a horrible mistake. == foo.. The 620 is an unusual architecture in that it was available in both 16 and 18 bit versions. I was able to pick up an 18 bit version a few years ago. Anything more about the ND 812 that you saw at a surplus place last year? From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Jul 12 16:40:22 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: HP2113E problem Message-ID: <200407122140.OAA06785@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Al I was hoping you might have the answer for this one. I just got a HP2113E. I've not been able to use it because it wants to have a battery connected. There is suppose to be a battery simulator plug for these. I'm looking for any schematic or part information for this item? Do you have this or any schematics for the supply. It seems to be the same as the 21MXX type B supply that is in the CE manual on your web page? Thanks Dwight From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Jul 12 16:47:18 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: Hp 2113E problems Message-ID: <200407122147.OAA06871@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Bob I just got a HP2113E. It is expecting to have a battery connected. I don't have a battery but I understand that one can use what is called a battery simulator plug. Do you have any information on what components this plug would have? Also, do you have any schematics for one of these supplies? It seems to be identical with the type B used by the 21MX machines. Dwight From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jul 12 16:42:19 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: Dynamic Sciences R-1250 Reciever info? In-Reply-To: <008401c46816$661f19e0$0200a8c0@geoff> References: <3.0.6.32.20040710204653.00906c00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040712174219.0086c740@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Thanks Geoff. I've already e-mailed them and asked for information. Joe At 02:44 PM 7/12/04 +0100, you wrote: >http://www.telford-electronics.com/receivers.htm > >Above have receiver for sale for ?900. >May be they have info as well ? > >Geoff. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe R." >To: >Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 1:46 AM >Subject: OT: Dynamic Sciences R-1250 Reciever info? > > >> I know this a long shot but is anyone here familar with this radio >> reciever? (It is NOT your run of the mill reciever!) >> >> Joe > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 12 16:08:52 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: Unhappy HP-85 In-Reply-To: from "Andrew Berg" at Jul 11, 4 10:51:08 pm Message-ID: > > Drat... what is wrong with me? :) > > The fellow is located on the PSU / Printer board - there are three > transformers on there; it looks like the two larger ones are > identical. It's one of the two larger ones - it seems as if the two OK, I've got out my HP85 service manual. The 3 transformers on the PSU/printer PCB are : T1 (Lower of the 2 large ones), converter transformer from +12V to +5V T2 (small onme), current sense transformer for +12V/-5V PSU T3 (Upper of the 2 large ones), +12V/-5V SMPSU transformer, +6V PSU >From your description we can discount T2. Amazingly the schematic gives the winding details for the transformers, here you are (pin 1 is the top left pin looking at the componet side of the PCB -- it has a square solder pad, pins then number conunterclockwise like an IC) (T = number of turns) : T1 : 2 windings pin 1 (start) -- 27T -- pin 2 -- 27T -- pin 3 pin 4 (start) -- 15T -- pin 5 -- 15T -- pin 6 T3 : 2 windings pin 6 (start) -- 20.5T -- pin 3 -- 5T -- pin 2 -- 17T -- pin 1 pin 5 (start) -- 15T -- pin 4 You would have to get the wire sixe by measuring the wire on the existing transformer, and you'll have to re-use the original cores. > giant screw-on caps on that board were shorted... they're going to be Those are C1 and C8. C1 is the smoothing cap for the incoming supply (26V AC, rectified on the PSU board), so if that shorts it'll take out the mains fuse at the back. C8 is the smoothing cap for the 12V line. While this could damage T3 if it shourted, I am suprised the PSU didn't shut down. I'd check the rest of those PSU components very carefully (you want to get the HP85 service manual, although you're not 'supposed' to do component level repeair it does contain schematics). > replaced. Can probably rewind the transformer if I can't find > something suitable, just am feeling a bit lazy. :) They are HP custom. The only place you'll get them is from another HP85 (I know from experiece that the 9915 (HP85 in a metal case that could fit into a rack mount kit) and the HP86 have totally different PSU transformers. I assuem the 87 does too, but I've not worked on that yet (a project for the near future, actually). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 12 16:12:06 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: RK05 question In-Reply-To: <008c01c4680c$0f652680$6700a8c0@vrshome.msn.com> from "vrs" at Jul 12, 4 05:30:47 am Message-ID: > > I could help relieve someone of the burden of excess PDP-8 cartridges, too > :-)! Me too, if there are any going cheap in the UK (but I am not that desparate for them). I have many 12 sector, but only a couple of 16 sector ones. > > The question lurking in my mind, though, is are the 'F' cartridges different > from the 'J' cartridges? (I have a couple of RK05F drives that I'd like to > convert to PDP-8 use.) Alas they are (or at least are supposed to be). My guess is that you'd get away with using a normal 16 sector pack in amn RK05F, though. -tony From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Jul 12 17:05:53 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: HP2113E problem Message-ID: <200407122205.PAA07080@clulw009.amd.com> Oops! got to remember to check the headers. Meant for Al Kossow. Sorry Dwight >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" > >Hi Al > I was hoping you might have the answer for this one. >I just got a HP2113E. I've not been able to use it because >it wants to have a battery connected. There is suppose to >be a battery simulator plug for these. I'm looking for >any schematic or part information for this item? >Do you have this or any schematics for the supply. It >seems to be the same as the 21MXX type B supply that >is in the CE manual on your web page? >Thanks >Dwight > > > From aek at spies.com Mon Jul 12 17:26:36 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:14 2005 Subject: HP2113E problem Message-ID: <20040712222636.9AF103CB0@spies.com> Oops! got to remember to check the headers. Meant for Al Kossow. -- recvd.. I have a schem set in the truck right now if you want to borrow it. Usual time, usual place. From trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Mon Jul 12 17:10:34 2004 From: trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (trash3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: RK05 alignment cartridge Message-ID: <040712181034.108b0@splab.cas.neu.edu> Here's the deal... I have two diablo alignment cartridges. I have 21 disk packs, 12 sector. I am happy to give them all to the person who has the best chance to copy the 21 packs to some media that I can read. I am south of Boston, MA, USA. I will also gladly give up the three diablo drives I have as well... I have no controller (or else I'd do the reading myself) and no time (same result). Joe Heck From aek at spies.com Mon Jul 12 18:19:48 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: RK05 alignment cartridge In-Reply-To: <040712181034.108b0@splab.cas.neu.edu> Message-ID: <20040712231948.D4A1C3CBF@spies.com> I am happy to give them all to the person who has the best chance to copy the 21 packs to some media that I can read. -- I have a setup right now, and could use the model 31's that you have. Logistics of getting them to the west coast, as usual. Anyone got space coming back from VCF? From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Jul 12 18:22:12 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: HP2113E problem Message-ID: <200407122322.QAA07157@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Al I'll see you tonight. Dwight >From: aek@spies.com > > >Oops! got to remember to check the headers. Meant >for Al Kossow. > >-- > >recvd.. > >I have a schem set in the truck right now if you want to borrow >it. Usual time, usual place. > > From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Jul 12 18:50:08 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: Anybody going to VCF-East have cheap working Oscilloscope/LogicAnalyzer to sell? In-Reply-To: <20040712103442.SLTZ7326.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> References: <20040712103442.SLTZ7326.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: <20040712235008.GD8704@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Jul 12, 2004 at 06:34:42AM -0400, Dave Dunfield wrote: > >If they come up to the random-character screen (no "*** COMMODORE BASIC ***" > >banner) > > I've run into about 1/2 dozen PET's over the years which have had ROM's go > bad. Seems to be a real problem with the devices Commodore used. I've had that happen to me once (out of 10+ PETs at my house). It was my original 32K PET I got new in 1979. I think it was the $C000 ROM. The symptom was that it would drop into the TIM prompt on power-on. Obviously, losing a different ROM would probably have made the machine lock up. I burned a 2532 with the first 4K of BASIC on it, and all was well. Unfortunately, with the Static PET motherboards, and their non-2332 ROMs, it's not trivial to just burn an EPROM. You'd need some sort of pin swabber, but at least then you could use a common part. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 12-Jul-2004 23:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -96.8 F (-71.5 C) Windchill -140.3 F (-95.7 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 11 kts Grid 067 Barometer 671.2 mb (10961. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Jul 12 19:07:47 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: HP2113E problem References: <200407122140.OAA06785@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <40F327D3.6050708@tiac.net> YOu need a resistor between the outside two pins in the middle row of the 9-pin battery connector jack. The value is apparently not too critical, around 1K. HP shipped several different values in these simulator plugs. Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >Hi Al > I was hoping you might have the answer for this one. >I just got a HP2113E. I've not been able to use it because >it wants to have a battery connected. There is suppose to >be a battery simulator plug for these. I'm looking for >any schematic or part information for this item? >Do you have this or any schematics for the supply. It >seems to be the same as the 21MXX type B supply that >is in the CE manual on your web page? >Thanks >Dwight > > > From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Jul 12 19:05:42 2004 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: HP2113E problem In-Reply-To: <200407122140.OAA06785@clulw009.amd.com> (Dwight K. Elvey's message of "Mon, 12 Jul 2004 14:40:22 -0700 (PDT)") References: <200407122140.OAA06785@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <200407130005.i6D05gcQ089359@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Dwight Elvey wrote: > I just got a HP2113E. I've not been able to use it because > it wants to have a battery connected. There is suppose to > be a battery simulator plug for these. I'm looking for > any schematic or part information for this item? in which I wrote: # Here I sit looking at a little black square 3x3 plug, HP p/n # 12991-60002 (stamped in white ink on one side of the hood). # Inside the hood (visible through the hole in the back) there is only a # 1/4W resistor connected to pins 4 and 6, which matches Glen's # description. Bands are gray, red, brown, gold. Hmm, 820 ohms? # Measures as 823 ohms on my cheap digital multimeter. -Frank McConnell From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Mon Jul 12 19:09:43 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: RK05 question References: <20040712152310.AF7AD3C9F@spies.com> Message-ID: <40F32847.AF6F3D19@compsys.to> >Al Kossow wrote: > >Can RK05s that were used on a PDP-8 be used on > >a PDP-11? > The drives are the same, the packs on PDP-8's are 16 > sector instead of 12. > I'll trade you two tested/cleaned 12 sector packs for > every 16 sector one that you have. Jerome Fine replies: I guess there is more to an LLF (Low Level Format) than I realized. I had thought that a completely blank RK05 media was able to be FORMATed via an RK05 drive. Your answer seems to STRONGLY suggest that the media must first be SECTORed correctly. Otherwise, it should be possible to take and RK05 media and do an LLF on the drive using the system on which the media is to be used - and that it would not be a problem if the media originally had an incorrect number of sectors. Based on your answer, the RK05 media must FIRST have the correct number of sectors. Can you please confirm? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Jul 12 19:11:37 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: RK05 question In-Reply-To: <008c01c4680c$0f652680$6700a8c0@vrshome.msn.com> References: <145cecdd04071202597e75099c@mail.gmail.com> <008c01c4680c$0f652680$6700a8c0@vrshome.msn.com> Message-ID: <20040713001137.GB8738@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Jul 12, 2004 at 05:30:47AM -0700, vrs wrote: > I could help relieve someone of the burden of excess PDP-8 cartridges, too > :-)! I think a lot of us could... I myself have a number (a few dozen, some with versions of RT-11, some with random contents) of 12-sector packs and one 16-sector F pack (never been able to read it, and I've had it for 20 years!) and one 16-sector J pack. One thing that's come up here a couple of times is what it would take to "convert" either a 12-sector hub to a 16-sector hub, or to modify a drive to read 12 sector marks, but to pass along 16 sector marks to the electronics. Since 12 and 16 share a common denominator of 4, you would be able to keep 4 sector slits intact, block up 8, and make 12 new ones... not impossible, as long as you could keep any aluminum dust off the platter. If anyone has any *crashed* 16-sector packs, it might be worth an experiment to unclamp the hub and put it on a former 12-sector platter, and reformat. I don't know if that's even possible, but it's an idea. > The question lurking in my mind, though, is are the 'F' cartridges different > from the 'J' cartridges? (I have a couple of RK05F drives that I'd like to > convert to PDP-8 use.) Inherently, no, but the F packs have been tested and qualified for twice as many tracks (the differences between an RK05F drive and an RK05J drive are a few jumper settings, different heads, and different mounting mechanisms - the J has the full door and pack guide rails; the F has a blank front-panel and uses a plastic wedge and springs screwed to the pack since it's fixed). Much like taking an ST-225 and formatting it on an RLL controller as if it were an ST-238, it's theoretically possible to take a J pack and mount it in an F drive, but there's a potential for data loss. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 12-Jul-2004 24:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -96.4 F (-71.3 C) Windchill -138.4 F (-94.7 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.3 kts Grid 076 Barometer 670.8 mb (10973. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dvcorbin at optonline.net Mon Jul 12 19:28:10 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: RK05 question In-Reply-To: <40F32847.AF6F3D19@compsys.to> Message-ID: >>> >>> I guess there is more to an LLF (Low Level Format) than I >>> realized. I had thought that a completely blank RK05 media >>> was able to be FORMATed via an RK05 drive. Your answer >>> seems to STRONGLY suggest that the media must first be >>> SECTORed correctly. >>> >>> Otherwise, it should be possible to take and RK05 media and >>> do an LLF on the drive using the system on which the media >>> is to be used - and that it would not be a problem if the >>> media originally had an incorrect number of sectors. Based >>> on your answer, the RK05 media must FIRST have the correct >>> number of sectors. >>> >>> Can you please confirm? >>> It would be VERY interesting if the drive had the capability to change the number of mechanical "slits" in the hub on the pack..... From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Jul 12 19:22:32 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: RK05 question In-Reply-To: <40F32847.AF6F3D19@compsys.to> References: <20040712152310.AF7AD3C9F@spies.com> <40F32847.AF6F3D19@compsys.to> Message-ID: <20040713002232.GC8738@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Jul 12, 2004 at 08:09:43PM -0400, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > I guess there is more to an LLF (Low Level Format) than > I realized. I had thought that a completely blank RK05 media > was able to be FORMATed via an RK05 drive. It can. > Your answer > seems to STRONGLY suggest that the media must first be > SECTORed correctly. It's not the media, per se... it's the hub that's clamped to the platter itself... RK05 media are hard-sectored. There are slits cut in a part of the hub that serve the same purpose as holes punched in the media of hard-sectored floppies... they delineate the start of each of the sectors, in the case of the RK05, either 12 sectors or 16 sectors, depending on the word-size of the controller, 16-bits or 12-bits. Note that the bit density is identical - what changes is how the bits are aggregated into sectors (12 sectors of (N) 16-bit words or 16 sectors of (N) 12-bit words). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 13-Jul-2004 00:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -96.7 F (-71.5 C) Windchill -138.1 F (-94.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9.80 kts Grid 080 Barometer 670.8 mb (10973. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Mon Jul 12 19:25:44 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: RK05 alignment cartridge References: <20040712231948.D4A1C3CBF@spies.com> Message-ID: <40F32C08.BA07DE2F@compsys.to> >Al Kossow wrote: > >I am happy to give them all to the person who has the best chance to copy > >the 21 packs to some media that I can read. > I have a setup right now, and could use the model 31's that you have. > Logistics of getting them to the west coast, as usual. Jerome Fine replies: I have been offered 2 RK05 media with RT-11 distributions which I believe are V04.00 or before. Could you please transfer the images to files which can be copied to bitsavers for download? I might already have copies of these packs, but I would VERY much like to be sure. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From dvcorbin at optonline.net Mon Jul 12 19:34:22 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: FW: RK05 question Message-ID: >>> >>> I guess there is more to an LLF (Low Level Format) than I realized. >>> I had thought that a completely blank RK05 media was able to be >>> FORMATed via an RK05 drive. Your answer seems to STRONGLY suggest >>> that the media must first be SECTORed correctly. >>> >>> Otherwise, it should be possible to take and RK05 media and do an >>> LLF on the drive using the system on which the media is to be used - >>> and that it would not be a problem if the media originally had an >>> incorrect number of sectors. Based on your answer, the RK05 media >>> must FIRST have the correct number of sectors. >>> >>> Can you please confirm? >>> It would be VERY interesting if the drive had the capability to change the number of mechanical "slits" in the hub on the pack..... More seriously. I wonder how good the rotational stability is on the drive. Mny of the reasons for using "hard sectored" media was because a) Drives "wobbled", and b) Accurate timing electronics were "difficult". If the drive motor speed is stable (over the course of a rotation), it*MIGHT* be possible to alter a drive to just use the "home" slit and synthesize the individual sectors. Never tried this with an RK05 [heck havent touched one of them in over 25 years!], but I have used this technique to synchronize otgher items..... From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Jul 12 19:36:01 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: HP2113E problem Message-ID: <200407130036.RAA07855@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Thanks. Just out of curiosity, where does one find a 14V Gell-Cell? Dwight >From: "Frank McConnell" > >Dwight Elvey wrote: >> I just got a HP2113E. I've not been able to use it because >> it wants to have a battery connected. There is suppose to >> be a battery simulator plug for these. I'm looking for >> any schematic or part information for this item? > > > >in which I wrote: > ># Here I sit looking at a little black square 3x3 plug, HP p/n ># 12991-60002 (stamped in white ink on one side of the hood). > ># Inside the hood (visible through the hole in the back) there is only a ># 1/4W resistor connected to pins 4 and 6, which matches Glen's ># description. Bands are gray, red, brown, gold. Hmm, 820 ohms? ># Measures as 823 ohms on my cheap digital multimeter. > >-Frank McConnell > From aek at spies.com Mon Jul 12 19:52:13 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: RK05 alignment cartridge Message-ID: <20040713005213.2DD473CDB@spies.com> Could you please transfer the images to files which can be copied to bitsavers for download? == I should be able to do this, assuming the pack arrives in good shape. Just went through some misery with some packs that Sellam needed reading because the person who wanted them read didn't know how to correctly pack and ship a 2315 cartridge (you don't pack them 6 in a box with a little bubble wrap between them if you expect them to spin when they get here). From dvcorbin at optonline.net Mon Jul 12 20:08:30 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: RK05 alignment cartridge In-Reply-To: <20040713005213.2DD473CDB@spies.com> Message-ID: >>> I should be able to do this, assuming the pack arrives in >>> good shape. Just went through some misery with some packs >>> that Sellam needed reading because the person who wanted >>> them read didn't know how to correctly pack and ship a 2315 >>> cartridge (you don't pack them 6 in a box with a little >>> bubble wrap between them if you expect them to spin when >>> they get here). ALWAYS a good idea to attach "shock monitors" to any type of disk media. At least if the indicator is red when you receive it, you have a better chance to do a careful examination (and possible repair) before spinning it up and causing havoc.... From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Mon Jul 12 20:18:12 2004 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: Free stuff for VCF East comers..... Message-ID: I've got a handful of Visual Technology model 55 and 310 terminals that are destined for the scrapper, I haven't been able to give them away around here. If anyone coming east for VCF wants them for free, let me know and we can try to work something out. I've also got a boatload of other dumb terminals that I am not sure what they are -- these are CLSI OEM deals. I think some of them at least are touchscreen models, might be interesting to play with. If anybody wants them, they are also $0.00. And I've also got that Apollo DN550 19" RGB monitor that I've tried to give away a few times still available. Full disclosure: none of these have been tested. They were put into storage (working) a few years ago but haven't seen an electrical outlet since. These were from a system swap at a large public library. Only issue: I won't be at VCF :-( as I am leaving for vacation Fri. morn. If someone coming in for Thurs wants them, that would be the best time for me to make the swap. I could also do it Fri morn, but it would have to be early, like 7:00 AM. These are located over in Tewksbury MA, which is about 20 minutes from Burlington. So someone with a big truck/van (and heart????) let me know. I've also got an untested DEC Pro 350 (PC350-D2) sans keyboard and monitor that I was going to eBay, but if some wants to make a reasonable offer for it and pick it up to save the ship costs it would probably make more sense. From marvin at rain.org Mon Jul 12 20:27:08 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: HP2113E problem References: <200407130036.RAA07855@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <40F33A6C.724B4788@rain.org> "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > > Just out of curiosity, where does one find a 14V > Gell-Cell? Easy, just overcharge a 12V gel cell :). From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Jul 12 20:44:04 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: FW: RK05 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040713014404.GB12696@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Jul 12, 2004 at 08:34:22PM -0400, David V. Corbin wrote: > More seriously. I wonder how good the rotational stability is on the drive. > Mny of the reasons for using "hard sectored" media was because a) Drives > "wobbled", and b) Accurate timing electronics were "difficult". I'd say it was because at the time, the predominant methods were either hard-sectoring (which is easy to key off of), or, for multiple platter drives, a servo *surface*. When you have only a single platter, filling the bottom surface with servo data kills your capacity. Also, keep in mind that the RK11-C, an early Unibus RK05 (RK03?) controller was made of several dozen "FLIP-CHIP" modules. Any design decisions that could keep that controller as small as possible would be a big win in terms of manufacturing cost. The RK8E was several quad-height boards (approx one square foot each). The RL01 came out a few years later with embedded among the sectors. This was a pretty good advance in drive technology. It's handy that the same packs were used with both the RL11 and RL8A controllers. At the time I first started getting into OMNIBUS PDP-8s (1984), I chose to go with an RL01 ($150 shipped) and an RL8A (~$600) rather than an RK8E ($450?) and adding another RK05 to the one I already had. Even in 1984, finding a 16-sector pack wasn't easy, but RL01Ks were available for nearly nothing (businesses were switching to RL02s) 5MB per drive (RL01) vs 2.5MB (RK05) was nice, too. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 13-Jul-2004 01:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -98.7 F (-72.5 C) Windchill -134.1 F (-92.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 6.8 kts Grid 103 Barometer 670.5 mb (10985. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Jul 12 20:44:40 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: HP2113E problem Message-ID: <200407130144.SAA07983@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Marvin Johnston" > > > >"Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: >> >> Just out of curiosity, where does one find a 14V >> Gell-Cell? > >Easy, just overcharge a 12V gel cell :). > Hi Marvin I already have a few like this. Your welcome to the ones in my yard. It'll save me a trip to the dump. Dwight From tradde at excite.com Mon Jul 12 20:47:20 2004 From: tradde at excite.com (Tim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: rk05 - crashed pack Message-ID: <20040713014720.C7ACE3CF3@xprdmailfe10.nwk.excite.com> >If anyone has any *crashed* 16-sector packs, it might be worth an >experiment to unclamp the hub and put it on a former 12-sector platter, >and reformat. I don't know if that's even possible, but it's an idea. I'd be willing to donate a crashed 16 sector pack if someone wants to try this. One has a very light scrach on an outer track. Don't know if there is a way for these to mark bad tracks (would guess not). Tim _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 12 23:27:18 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: RK05 question In-Reply-To: <40F32847.AF6F3D19@compsys.to> from "Jerome H. Fine" at Jul 12, 4 08:09:43 pm Message-ID: > I guess there is more to an LLF (Low Level Format) than > I realized. I had thought that a completely blank RK05 media > was able to be FORMATed via an RK05 drive. Your answer It can > seems to STRONGLY suggest that the media must first be > SECTORed correctly. These packs are _hard_ sectored. There's a ring round the hub with notches in it -- equally spaced ones for the sector pulses, and an extra one, halfway bettween 2 of the sector notches, for the index pulse. It's that ring that's different between the 12 sector (PDP11) and 16 sector (PDP8) packs. -tony From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jul 8 16:35:42 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: IRIX 5.3 and 'configure' utility... In-Reply-To: <1089321574.1929.52.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1089321574.1929.52.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1089322542.1929.54.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-07-08 at 21:19, Jules Richardson wrote: > Ok, I'm starting to get a nice little Indy system together now :-) > > Any ideas where I can get the 'configure' utility from? ignore that - I'm going nuts. Beer time I reckon :-) From dvcorbin at optonline.net Tue Jul 13 07:00:09 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: IRIX 5.3 and 'configure' utility... In-Reply-To: <1089322542.1929.54.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: >>> ignore that - I'm going nuts. Beer time I reckon :-) Beer and nuts..... Always a good combination... Although it is only 8:00am here, it is always "Happy Hour" somewhere, and we are an international group! Cheers! From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Jul 13 08:07:22 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: FW: RK05 question References: Message-ID: <16627.56970.218000.344266@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "David" == David V Corbin writes: David> More seriously. I wonder how good the rotational stability is David> on the drive. Mny of the reasons for using "hard sectored" David> media was because a) Drives "wobbled", and b) Accurate timing David> electronics were "difficult". I think the motor is the kind whose rotation speed is tied to the power line frequency, so assuming normal stable utility power the rotational stability will be excellent. Also, the motor power is fairly low compared to the inertia of the disk, so any short term variations in motor power have only a small effect on RPMs. David> If the drive motor speed is stable (over the course of a David> rotation), it*MIGHT* be possible to alter a drive to just use David> the "home" slit and synthesize the individual sectors. Never David> tried this with an RK05 [heck havent touched one of them in David> over 25 years!], but I have used this technique to synchronize David> otgher items..... I suppose that's possible. One way to do it would be to build a PLL that's locked to the start of track pulse, and derive a 12x or 16x sector clock from that. Or, analogously, you could use a PLL to derive a 16 sector clock from the 12 sector clock (multiple by 4/3rd, not hard with a PLL). That's probably a good solution... paul From dvcorbin at optonline.net Tue Jul 13 08:15:54 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: Disk Capacity.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Kind of off the wall, but the issue came up in a discussion here, and want to get some solid numbers... June 2004 Disk Capacity [IDE 5.25] = 250 Gig [approx] June 2004 Disk Surface Area (total) = ??? Sq inches Average Capacity per Sq Inch = ??? RP06 Disk Capacity = ??? [100+ MB] RP06 Disk Surface Area (total) = ??? Sq inches Average Capacity per Sq Inch = ??? The above numbers would yield a hypothetical capacity for a disk (pack) this size (and number of platter) of an RP06..... This was brought up in part by seeing a row of 8 RP-06 drives and marveling at the size [floor space] required for just about 1 Gig of disk.... From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Jul 13 08:36:19 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: Disk Capacity.... References: Message-ID: <16627.58707.975000.26300@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "David" == David V Corbin writes: David> Kind of off the wall, but the issue came up in a discussion David> here, and want to get some solid numbers... David> June 2004 Disk Capacity [IDE 5.25] = 250 Gig [approx] June David> 2004 Disk Surface Area (total) = ??? Sq inches Average David> Capacity per Sq Inch = ??? Today's drives are usually 3.5 inch enclosure size. The generation that goes up to 250 GB has about 80 GB per platter; coming up any day now is 120 or so GB/platter. I'm not sure about the platter size. Call it 3 inch diameter for a rough guess, that makes perhaps 10 square inches once you take the hub out. So that means 8 GB per square inch. David> RP06 Disk Capacity = ??? [100+ MB] RP06 Disk Surface Area David> (total) = ??? Sq inches Average Capacity per Sq Inch = ??? RP06: 176 MB, 19 surfaces, 14 inch diameter, so maybe 100 square inches per surface, so about 0.1 MM per square inch. David> The above numbers would yield a hypothetical capacity for a David> disk (pack) this size (and number of platter) of an RP06..... David> This was brought up in part by seeing a row of 8 RP-06 drives David> and marveling at the size [floor space] required for just David> about 1 Gig of disk.... Sure, and the RP06 was pretty impressive in its day. Go back a bit more to the RK05: 2 surfaces, somewhat bigger than the RP06 (smaller hub) -- but let's ignore that. 2.4 MB capacity. So that gives 12 kB per square inch. Back a bit further... the CDC 6603 (early 1960s). 100 MB per cabinet. (This is a fixed media, moving head drive.) 32 surfaces, so that's 3 MB per surface. Not sure how big those platters are -- 25 inches perhaps? If yes, that would make about 400 square inches per platter, so about 7.5 kB per square inch. Hm, not much less than the RK05. The 6603 is also MUCH faster because it records data 12 bits parallel (using 12 heads simultaneously) for a transfer time per sector of about 500 microseconds. That's about 1 MB/s (322 12-bit words per sector) -- compare with RK05 at 6 microseconds per byte if I remember right, so 1/6th the speed about 8 to 10 years later than the 6603... Then again, in fairness, the 6603 looks like a 6 foot high by perhaps 8 feet wide rack... and probably cost 20x to 50x an RK05/RK11 combo. paul From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jul 13 08:43:46 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: FW: RK05 question In-Reply-To: <16627.56970.218000.344266@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Jul 2004, Paul Koning wrote: > David> the "home" slit and synthesize the individual sectors. Never > David> tried this with an RK05 [heck havent touched one of them in > David> over 25 years!], but I have used this technique to synchronize > David> otgher items..... > > I suppose that's possible. One way to do it would be to build a PLL > that's locked to the start of track pulse, and derive a 12x or 16x > sector clock from that. Or, analogously, you could use a PLL to > derive a 16 sector clock from the 12 sector clock (multiple by 4/3rd, > not hard with a PLL). That's probably a good solution... Hm, and then ignore the "real" sector pulses and feeding the drive electronics the output of the PLL? Smart, that should work, assuming one can format the packs given this "sector clock". Would these then be called hard- or soft-sectored? :) --f From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Jul 13 08:58:43 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: FW: RK05 question References: <16627.56970.218000.344266@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <16627.60051.604000.969434@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Fred" == Fred N van Kempen writes: Fred> On Tue, 13 Jul 2004, Paul Koning wrote: David> the "home" slit and synthesize the individual sectors. Never David> tried this with an RK05 [heck havent touched one of them in David> over 25 years!], but I have used this technique to synchronize David> otgher items..... >> I suppose that's possible. One way to do it would be to build a >> PLL that's locked to the start of track pulse, and derive a 12x or >> 16x sector clock from that. Or, analogously, you could use a PLL >> to derive a 16 sector clock from the 12 sector clock (multiple by >> 4/3rd, not hard with a PLL). That's probably a good solution... Fred> Hm, and then ignore the "real" sector pulses and feeding the Fred> drive electronics the output of the PLL? Smart, that should Fred> work, assuming one can format the packs given this "sector Fred> clock". Yes, that's what I had in mind -- hook the optical sensor to the PLL, feed the PLL output to where the sensor used to go. The one obvious tricky part is to generate the track index pulse, because it isn't equally spaced along with the sector pulses. Fred> Would these then be called hard- or soft-sectored? :) Firm-sectored? :-) paul From GOOI at oce.nl Tue Jul 13 09:16:15 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: FW: RK05 question Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102CC1@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Isn't the track index pulse == the one pulse that is fed to the PLL phase comparator? That pulse is used to synchronize the oscillator that must run at 12 (or 16) times the frequency between 2 sector pulses to generate the (missing) sector pulses .... or am I mistaken here? - Henk, PA8PDP. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Paul Koning > Sent: dinsdag 13 juli 2004 15:59 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: FW: RK05 question > > > >>>>> "Fred" == Fred N van Kempen writes: > > Fred> On Tue, 13 Jul 2004, Paul Koning wrote: > David> the "home" slit and synthesize the individual sectors. Never > David> tried this with an RK05 [heck havent touched one of them in > David> over 25 years!], but I have used this technique to synchronize > David> otgher items..... > >> I suppose that's possible. One way to do it would be to build a > >> PLL that's locked to the start of track pulse, and derive a 12x or > >> 16x sector clock from that. Or, analogously, you could use a PLL > >> to derive a 16 sector clock from the 12 sector clock (multiple by > >> 4/3rd, not hard with a PLL). That's probably a good solution... > > Fred> Hm, and then ignore the "real" sector pulses and feeding the > Fred> drive electronics the output of the PLL? Smart, that should > Fred> work, assuming one can format the packs given this "sector > Fred> clock". > > Yes, that's what I had in mind -- hook the optical sensor to the PLL, > feed the PLL output to where the sensor used to go. The one obvious > tricky part is to generate the track index pulse, because it isn't > equally spaced along with the sector pulses. > > Fred> Would these then be called hard- or soft-sectored? :) > > Firm-sectored? :-) > > paul > From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Jul 13 09:18:13 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: FYI: Office Depot to recycle old PCs... Message-ID: <200407131418.KAA24295@wordstock.com> http://www.cnn.com/money/2004/07/13/news/fortune500/recycle_pc/index.htm Cheers, Bryan Pope From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jul 13 09:21:37 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: TEST USERS NEEDED Message-ID: Hi, I am in need of some people who can test some of the projects I am slowly cleaning up for release: 1. TDU - the Tape Distribution File Format (TDF) utility, which handles the archiving of magtapes. All my tape images are in this format, so I'd better get the tools published as well ;-) Uses my ASPI library on DOS/Win32 platforms. --> done 2. VTserver - transfer data from/to bare-metal PDP-11 systems. Uses the TDF library (above) and the TTY generic serial driver library. --> in final beta (Ashley Carder is busy testing/using it as we speak) 3. OpenMOP - full-spec MOP DL/RC server for UNIX and Win32 platforms. Uses my NETLIB generic network I/O library. --> next up for final beta (after VTserver) 4. OpenLAT - full-spec LAT server for UNIX and Win32 platforms. Uses my NETLIB generic network I/O library. --> needs cleanup and more work, after OpenMOP is done. 5. OpenPORT - full-spec LASTport (InfoServer) service for UNIX/Win32. --> final design phase, uses code from OpenMOP and OpenLAT, and uses the NETLIB library. These projects, plus their documentation, and probably one or two papers on retro-computing issues (network installing DEC systems will be one) will be my "hobby" for the second half of this year. I want these packages to be tested (and confirmed to work ;-) on the Win32 (and DOS, where possible) platforms, and on a number of often- used UNIX-ish platforms: - OpenBSD, NetBSD, FreeBSD - Linux (-intel, alpha) - DEC Ultrix-32 (vax, mips) - Digital UNIX / Tru64 My personal test platforms are Tru64 UNIX (alpha), DEC Ultrix-32 (vax and mips), OpenBSD/vax, FreeBSD/intel and Win32+DOS. Other people will have to check the builds (and working) on other platforms. Also needed is a thorough check of the documentation. If you can help on any of these, please let me know! Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Tue Jul 13 09:28:17 2004 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: Slashdotting VCF East... Message-ID: I've tried twice to get VCF East Slashdotted with no success. I'm not much of a writer and I carefully guard my Anonymous Coward status on Slashdot. Maybe someone who is a better headline writer and has some karma wants to give it a try? From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Jul 13 09:37:48 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: FW: RK05 question References: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102CC1@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Message-ID: <16627.62396.206059.43598@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Gooijen" == Gooijen H writes: Gooijen> Isn't the track index pulse == the one pulse that is fed to Gooijen> the PLL phase comparator? That pulse is used to synchronize Gooijen> the oscillator that must run at 12 (or 16) times the Gooijen> frequency between 2 sector pulses to generate the (missing) Gooijen> sector pulses .... or am I mistaken here? No, what I meant is to derive the 16x sector pulses from the 12x sector pulses, keeping the track pulse as it is. But either would be possible. The track slot is close to the first sector slot (it's not halfway between sectors). What I don't remember is how close, or whether the sector slot spacing around the track index is the same as elsewhere, or different. That would affect the PLL design a lot... To do this right would require measuring the angular positions of all the slots on a 12 sector and 16 sector pack, to see just what the pattern looks like and how to transform one to the other. paul From cmcnabb at gmail.com Tue Jul 13 10:22:48 2004 From: cmcnabb at gmail.com (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: TEST USERS NEEDED In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <145cecdd04071308221ab7caa6@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 16:21:37 +0200 (MEST), Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > - OpenBSD, NetBSD, FreeBSD > - Linux (-intel, alpha) > - DEC Ultrix-32 (vax, mips) > - Digital UNIX / Tru64 > > If you can help on any of these, please let me know! > I can help with Linux on Intel, as well as Solaris on Sparc if need be. I also have a couple of PDP-11s to test things against. From brad at heeltoe.com Tue Jul 13 11:14:47 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: Free stuff for VCF East comers..... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 12 Jul 2004 21:18:12 EDT." Message-ID: <200407131614.i6DGElS24441@mwave.heeltoe.com> "Damien Cymbal" wrote: ... > make the swap. I could also do it Fri morn, but it would have to be early, l >ike 7:00 AM. These are located over in Tewksbury MA, which is about 20 minutes > from Burlington. > >So someone with a big truck/van (and heart????) let me know. I have a gmc yukon and could make a swing to Tewkbury on thursday or friday morning before VCF. I plan to be there friday morning anyway. Let me know (via email). -brad will work for unibus boards :-) From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jul 13 13:32:22 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: Paging Dan Veeneman Message-ID: <003f01c46907$bca16d80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Dan; Need to talk to you about a deal! Jay From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jul 13 13:57:52 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: FYI: Office Depot to recycle old PCs... In-Reply-To: <200407131418.KAA24295@wordstock.com> References: <200407131418.KAA24295@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20040713115246.O44619@newshell.lmi.net> On Tue, 13 Jul 2004, Bryan Pope wrote: > http://www.cnn.com/money/2004/07/13/news/fortune500/recycle_pc/index.htm ... and what do you suppose their definition is of "recycling"? (Pentium >1 GHz; anything else or slower is "too obsolete" to be used, and will be crushed for scrap) HP has a tradition of recycling (scrapping) toner and ink cartridges - significantly reduces the number of refillable units around. "one product per day"??? THAT does NOT sound like a serious effort to recycle. THAT is "free disposal". From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Jul 13 14:03:42 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: FYI: Office Depot to recycle old PCs... In-Reply-To: <20040713115246.O44619@newshell.lmi.net> from "Fred Cisin" at Jul 13, 04 11:57:52 am Message-ID: <200407131903.PAA16135@wordstock.com> And thusly Fred Cisin spake: > > On Tue, 13 Jul 2004, Bryan Pope wrote: > > http://www.cnn.com/money/2004/07/13/news/fortune500/recycle_pc/index.htm > > ... and what do you suppose their definition is of "recycling"? > (Pentium >1 GHz; anything else or slower is "too obsolete" to Arrrgh!! A 1 Ghz machine is perfect for a MAME machine!! :-( > be used, and will be crushed for scrap) Maybe we should all start hanging out at our local Office Depots with a truck... > > HP has a tradition of recycling (scrapping) toner and ink cartridges - > significantly reduces the number of refillable units around. > > > "one product per day"??? THAT does NOT sound like a serious > effort to recycle. THAT is "free disposal". It would be nice to know what they plan to do with these systems... Cheers, Bryan Pope From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jul 13 14:25:22 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: FYI: Office Depot to recycle old PCs... In-Reply-To: <200407131903.PAA16135@wordstock.com> References: <200407131903.PAA16135@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20040713121649.H44619@newshell.lmi.net> > > > http://www.cnn.com/money/2004/07/13/news/fortune500/recycle_pc/index.htm > > > > ... and what do you suppose their definition is of "recycling"? > > (Pentium >1 GHz; anything else or slower is "too obsolete" to On Tue, 13 Jul 2004, Bryan Pope wrote: > Arrrgh!! A 1 Ghz machine is perfect for a MAME machine!! :-( To be fair, that was my guess of their parameters for "recycling", NOT their wording. But what do YOU think they would do with a Northstar? > Maybe we should all start hanging out at our local Office Depots with a > truck... I doubt that it would require a very large incentive (bribe) to get the Office Depot employee to cull "obsolete crap" for you. > > "one product per day"??? THAT does NOT sound like a serious > > effort to recycle. THAT is "free disposal". The "one product per day" is to avoid the possibility of recycling any significant amount, but to get people to come to the store with the machine that they bought a few years ago. ... and while there, shop for a replacement. > It would be nice to know what they plan to do with these systems... The HP "recycling" of toner and ink cartridges is a very systematic scrapping of the materials. From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Tue Jul 13 14:29:20 2004 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: Stuff I'm bringing to VCF East Message-ID: I'm bringing the following stuff to VCF East in the hopes of finding it new homes: 1) 2 PDT-11/150's (already spoken for) 2) 2 DECmate III+'s (with hard drive and CP/M option) 3) 1 DECmate III (dual floppies) 4) 1 DEC Pro380 5) 1 DEC VR201 monitor 6) 1 DEC LK201 keyboard 7) 1 Radio Shack CoCo3 8) 1 Sun Sparc Classic X with software 9) 1 SWTP 6800 10) 1 SWTP AC-30 with documentation 11) 1 SWTP DMAF2 Floppy controller with documentation 12) 1 NEC EVAKIT-8 evaluation kit with documentation (8080 clone) 13) 1 Atari Portfolio with serial interface and memory cards and documentation 14) 1 TRS-80 Model 100 with cassette drive 15) 1 Atari Jaguar with CD-ROM drive with some games 16) 1 Micromint SB180 single board computer with documentation and software 17) 1 VAXstation 4000 VLC without hard drive 18) 1 DEC hard drive that *may* work with the 4000 VLC What I'm hoping to acquire: 1) A complete kit for the SBC6120 2) A book on 6502 assembly language programming Once I get an SBC6120 up and running I will have an additional DECmate III+ with VR201 and LK201 available. From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jul 13 14:59:45 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: Dec manuals Message-ID: <009b01c46913$f1bff200$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Someone just sent me an email with the line below in it: "Btw, I just found another batch of manuals, including stuff for PDP-6, -7, -8, -9, -10, -11, and -15... I imagine someone probably will want these also. " MUAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Tue Jul 13 15:27:37 2004 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: Stuff I'm bringing to VCF East In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dibs on the SWTP stuff!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of David Betz > Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 3:29 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Stuff I'm bringing to VCF East > > > I'm bringing the following stuff to VCF East in the hopes of finding it > new homes: > > 1) 2 PDT-11/150's (already spoken for) > 2) 2 DECmate III+'s (with hard drive and CP/M option) > 3) 1 DECmate III (dual floppies) > 4) 1 DEC Pro380 > 5) 1 DEC VR201 monitor > 6) 1 DEC LK201 keyboard > 7) 1 Radio Shack CoCo3 > 8) 1 Sun Sparc Classic X with software > 9) 1 SWTP 6800 > 10) 1 SWTP AC-30 with documentation > 11) 1 SWTP DMAF2 Floppy controller with documentation > 12) 1 NEC EVAKIT-8 evaluation kit with documentation (8080 clone) > 13) 1 Atari Portfolio with serial interface and memory cards and > documentation > 14) 1 TRS-80 Model 100 with cassette drive > 15) 1 Atari Jaguar with CD-ROM drive with some games > 16) 1 Micromint SB180 single board computer with documentation and > software > 17) 1 VAXstation 4000 VLC without hard drive > 18) 1 DEC hard drive that *may* work with the 4000 VLC > > What I'm hoping to acquire: > > 1) A complete kit for the SBC6120 > 2) A book on 6502 assembly language programming > > Once I get an SBC6120 up and running I will have an additional DECmate > III+ with VR201 and LK201 available. > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jul 13 15:45:57 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: Dec manuals In-Reply-To: <009b01c46913$f1bff200$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at Jul 13, 2004 02:59:45 PM Message-ID: <200407132045.i6DKjwnE023830@onyx.spiritone.com> > Someone just sent me an email with the line below in it: > > "Btw, I just found another batch of manuals, including stuff for PDP-6, > -7, -8, -9, -10, -11, and -15... I imagine someone probably will want > these also. " > > MUAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA If you aren't interested in the PDP-6 or PDP-10 manuals, I would be.... Zane From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jul 13 16:08:11 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: Archive 5945C tape drive - Emulex or Adaptec interface board? Message-ID: <1089752890.14091.708.camel@weka.localdomain> Amongst a box of Acorn floppies that I got hold of the other day I found several DC600 tape cartridges. I thought it might be useful to see if I can get any data off them (I have no idea what's on them, if they're still readable, or what format any data on them is in - I know, I know... :) Paths scribbled on some suggest they came from some variety of Unix machine, so chances are they're tar format. Now, in the loft I have a pair of Archive 5945C 60MB drives which I didn't have the heart to throw out. God knows if they work or not. I know, I know... They're QIC-36 interface drives apparently. This is where I do the hand-waving stuff as I start to get out of my depth (my only tape experience is with modern DLT and DAT drives) I happen to have a whole box of stray interface boards with SCSI at one end and various other interfaces at the other. Included in these are Adaptec 3530GA's and Emulex MW0210402's, both of which I think bridge SCSI to QIC-36. No, I don't know if *those* work either... Question is, are these boards interchangable? Or in order to stand a chance of reading these tapes, do I need to know what board was originally used (and even which drive!) in order to write them? Furthermore, just because the drive's then on the SCSI bus, can I expect it to just appear as a modern SCSI tape unit does (i.e. if I can drive a DLT or DAT drive from my Unix OS, should the same be true of these controller boards / ancient drives)? I have the Adaptec 3530A manual, which suggests it's just a plug in and go solution (but I have no idea how the GA series boards that I have differ from the A series) Thoughts welcome, before I go trying to cable everything up! cheers Jules From aek at spies.com Tue Jul 13 16:47:10 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: Archive 5945C tape drive - Emulex or Adaptec interface board? Message-ID: <20040713214710.E7BF43D5F@spies.com> Now, in the loft I have a pair of Archive 5945C 60MB drives They're QIC-36 interface drives apparently. -- Correct, the basic drive mech is QIC-36 -- Emulex MW0210402's -- Should be MT02 -- in order to stand a chance of reading these tapes, do I need to know what board was originally used (and even which drive!) in order to write them? -- It would certainly help. MT02's are SCSI common command set and can read QIC-11 or QIC-24 formats. If the carts are DC300,450, or 600 and they were written on a 80's - ish unix box, they will probably be readable with a 5945 and MT02. Be ABSOLUTELY sure that the capstan hasn't deteriorated before trying to do anything with a tape you care about, though. Most drives that old have rubber that has turned to goo, or WILL turn to goo once heat is applied though the motor shaft. Docs for both the Archive drive and MT02 are up on bitsavers. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Jul 13 17:09:31 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:15 2005 Subject: FYI: Office Depot to recycle old PCs... In-Reply-To: <20040713121649.H44619@newshell.lmi.net> References: <200407131903.PAA16135@wordstock.com> <20040713121649.H44619@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: In message <20040713121649.H44619@newshell.lmi.net> Fred Cisin wrote: > To be fair, that was my guess of their parameters for "recycling", > NOT their wording. > But what do YOU think they would do with a Northstar? Them: "Yecch. More crap for the dumpster" Me: "Hmm. Another addition to my collection. Now to fit it in the car..." > The "one product per day" is to avoid the possibility of > recycling any significant amount, but to get people to > come to the store with the machine that they bought a few > years ago. ... and while there, shop for a replacement. And end up with something that cost far more than its componet parts and is hopelessly outdated. For some people, the fact that the hardware is "obsolete" isn't much of a hindrance - someone gave me a half-dead PC, so I cleaned it out, reseated various connectors and got it to boot - stuck a copy of Openoffice on it (it already had a valid Windows 98SE license sticker and the OS was pretty bare anyway) and sold it on. A Packard-Bell is no good to me (too much proprietary hardware), so why not fix it and sell it on to someone who's just starting out with computers? Next job: Turn the 500MHz K6 b0x that's currently wasting space into a fileserver... > The HP "recycling" of toner and ink cartridges is a very > systematic scrapping of the materials. Despite the fact that the parts are actually (to some extent) reusable - the imager drums fitted to most HP cartridges tend to last longer than the toner does. I've got a Panasonic KXP4400 with 8,000 pages on a drum that was only supposed to run for 6,000. I just emptied the waste-toner casing, whacked the side of the casing on the desk to reset the plastic "replace drum" flag, sealed it with Scotch tape and put it back in the machine. There's a trick to it - wear a dust mask and goggles and don't be afraid to use a bit of brute force :) Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Which sparks some mnemonic circuitry. From tomj at wps.com Tue Jul 13 17:23:30 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Vaian 620? In-Reply-To: <20040712195617.C1BDB3CA0@spies.com> References: <20040712195617.C1BDB3CA0@spies.com> Message-ID: <1089757410.6044.3.camel@dhcp-251012> On Mon, 2004-07-12 at 12:56, Al Kossow wrote: > Anything more about the ND 812 that you saw at a surplus place last > year? Haven't been back yet, money mainly. I'm sure it's still mouldering away. It's wirewrapped, too, so I assume it's NFG. It's inside, but subjected to wild seasonal temp extremes for 20 years. From tomj at wps.com Tue Jul 13 17:26:47 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Disk Capacity.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1089757606.6044.7.camel@dhcp-251012> Areal comparisons don't hold, thermal expansion alone prevents just increasing capacity physically. It's not a coincidence the bigger drives are physically smaller. Encoding for modern data densities has long abandoned the simplistic schemes used in the deep past, too, and require tons of logic and software support to pull off. On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 06:15, David V. Corbin wrote: > Kind of off the wall, but the issue came up in a discussion here, and want > to get some solid numbers... > > June 2004 Disk Capacity [IDE 5.25] = 250 Gig [approx] > June 2004 Disk Surface Area (total) = ??? Sq inches > Average Capacity per Sq Inch = ??? > > > RP06 Disk Capacity = ??? [100+ MB] > RP06 Disk Surface Area (total) = ??? Sq inches > Average Capacity per Sq Inch = ??? > > > The above numbers would yield a hypothetical capacity for a disk (pack) this > size (and number of platter) of an RP06..... > > This was brought up in part by seeing a row of 8 RP-06 drives and marveling > at the size [floor space] required for just about 1 Gig of disk.... > > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jul 13 17:36:10 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: FYI: Office Depot to recycle old PCs... In-Reply-To: <20040713121649.H44619@newshell.lmi.net> References: <200407131903.PAA16135@wordstock.com> <20040713121649.H44619@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <1089758170.14091.813.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 19:25, Fred Cisin wrote: > > Arrrgh!! A 1 Ghz machine is perfect for a MAME machine!! :-( > > To be fair, that was my guess of their parameters for "recycling", > NOT their wording. > But what do YOU think they would do with a Northstar? Indeed. My local computer "recycling" place works on the premise that Unless it's a PC, it gets ripped apart, with plastic going to the local tip, PCBs going somewhere else, and metal going for scrap value. No attempt is made to advertise any such donated equipment to the public; I only know because I happened to be there one day when someone was coming to do a run of remains to the tip and so saw the pile of plastic shells from 80's micros awaiting the crusher. The owner isn't open to any kind of arangement where I buy non-PC machines from him for something above scrap value (where I could then sell them on to good homes for what I paid for them) - I've tried asking that a couple of times. I think to him it's simply a business and his money comes from selling secondhand PC components; even if an arrangement was more convenient for him because it means not having to part 'unsellable' out himself, he still can't think beyond what he's always done. I don't know, I just get frustrated by people who think that recycling involves smashing things into component parts first, rather than making an effort to recycle the thing as a whole first (regardless of what the 'thing' is). That kind of attitude makes no sense to me... cheers Jules From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Jul 13 17:58:12 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Stuff I'm bringing to VCF East In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In message David Betz wrote: > 9) 1 SWTP 6800 > 10) 1 SWTP AC-30 with documentation > 11) 1 SWTP DMAF2 Floppy controller with documentation *whine* > 13) 1 Atari Portfolio with serial interface and memory cards and > documentation *double*whine* > 2) A book on 6502 assembly language programming I think I've got one lying around somewhere - "Assembly Language for the BBC Microcomputer". Not sure if it's any good to you. Depends if I can find the other one I had... Personally, I learned 6502 assembler from the Rockwell and MOS 6502 datasheets and a wonderful little webpage called "Assembly in One Step". I really should get some photos of my rather pitiful classiccmp collection at some point. Maybe tomorrow... Later, Phil (still after a Eurocard backplane with DIN41612 64way form-C connectors for his 6502 computer project - and a maybe a Rockwell AIM-65 or Synertek SYM-1 too) -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... A wok is what you throw at a wabbit. From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Jul 13 18:06:43 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: FYI: Office Depot to recycle old PCs... References: <200407131903.PAA16135@wordstock.com> <20040713121649.H44619@newshell.lmi.net> <1089758170.14091.813.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <001501c4692e$1152d5f0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jules Richardson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 6:36 PM Subject: Re: FYI: Office Depot to recycle old PCs... > On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 19:25, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > Arrrgh!! A 1 Ghz machine is perfect for a MAME machine!! :-( > > > > To be fair, that was my guess of their parameters for "recycling", > > NOT their wording. > > But what do YOU think they would do with a Northstar? > > Indeed. My local computer "recycling" place works on the premise that > Unless it's a PC, it gets ripped apart, with plastic going to the local > tip, PCBs going somewhere else, and metal going for scrap value. > > No attempt is made to advertise any such donated equipment to the > public; I only know because I happened to be there one day when someone > was coming to do a run of remains to the tip and so saw the pile of > plastic shells from 80's micros awaiting the crusher. > > The owner isn't open to any kind of arangement where I buy non-PC > machines from him for something above scrap value (where I could then > sell them on to good homes for what I paid for them) - I've tried asking > that a couple of times. I think to him it's simply a business and his > money comes from selling secondhand PC components; even if an > arrangement was more convenient for him because it means not having to > part 'unsellable' out himself, he still can't think beyond what he's > always done. > > I don't know, I just get frustrated by people who think that recycling > involves smashing things into component parts first, rather than making > an effort to recycle the thing as a whole first (regardless of what the > 'thing' is). That kind of attitude makes no sense to me... > > cheers > > Jules > > I bet most recyclers get their machines from a business, which probably pays to make sure their old gear is destroyed and recycled and not tossed into a corner of a shop for somebody else to worry about. If you really want to provide computers to a good home setup a non profit business and have people drop off machines to you. It doesn't cost much to advertise in the local paper or post a note at a church or something like that. From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Tue Jul 13 18:11:54 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Places and People around Fresno Message-ID: <07960BE2-D522-11D8-9111-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Ok, I seem to have come to rest in Tulare CA remember I was in Kansas City MO for a while... Anyway - any places of interest in Fresno or nearby? From dvcorbin at optonline.net Tue Jul 13 18:43:16 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: FYI: Office Depot to recycle old PCs... In-Reply-To: <1089758170.14091.813.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: >>> I don't know, I just get frustrated by people who think that recycling involves smashing things into component parts >>> first, rather than making an effort to recycle the thing as a whole first (regardless of what the 'thing' is). That >>> kind of attitude makes no sense to me... Technically "recycle" is the breaking down and utilizing of the parts. "Reuse" is the return to service of a complete "thing" Reduce...Reuse...Recycle is the "mantra". David. Ps: being picky here. From marvin at rain.org Tue Jul 13 18:42:53 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Tymac Tape Controller for Commodore? Message-ID: <40F4737D.A7F400D1@rain.org> I found a blue Tymac controller that looks like it fits the Commodore C-64 back edge connector. Google brought up a couple of things, but I didn't see any pictures to verify that is what I have. This is in a blue case with a reset button, three LEDs for Motor/Read/Write, and two slide switches ... norm/dupl and +/-, and three connectors (1 - 3/32" and 2 - 1/8") that look like they plug into a cassette recorder. Does anyone have any information on this thing? From jbmcb at hotmail.com Tue Jul 13 19:02:13 2004 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Stuff I'm bringing to VCF East References: Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Pemberton" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 6:58 PM Subject: Re: Stuff I'm bringing to VCF East > > > 13) 1 Atari Portfolio with serial interface and memory cards and > > documentation > *double*whine* I picked one up on eBay for $30 a couple years ago. Came with the cards and even the case. > > 2) A book on 6502 assembly language programming > I think I've got one lying around somewhere - "Assembly Language for the BBC > Microcomputer". Not sure if it's any good to you. Depends if I can find the > other one I had... > Personally, I learned 6502 assembler from the Rockwell and MOS 6502 > datasheets and a wonderful little webpage called "Assembly in One Step". You can find loads of 6502 assembler info from various C64 and Nintendo emulation sites. Try here: http://www.cc65.org/ From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jul 13 19:12:36 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Stuff I'm bringing to VCF East In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1089763956.14091.827.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 00:02, Jason McBrien wrote: > > > 2) A book on 6502 assembly language programming > > I think I've got one lying around somewhere - "Assembly Language for the > BBC > > Microcomputer". Not sure if it's any good to you. Depends if I can find > the > > other one I had... > > Personally, I learned 6502 assembler from the Rockwell and MOS 6502 > > datasheets and a wonderful little webpage called "Assembly in One Step". > > You can find loads of 6502 assembler info from various C64 and Nintendo > emulation sites. Try here: > http://www.cc65.org/ Or even: http://www.6502.org (just on the offchance that the original poster hasn't found it :) There's some useful-looking stuff in the tutorials section. cheers Jules From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Jul 13 20:53:22 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Disk Capacity.... In-Reply-To: <1089757606.6044.7.camel@dhcp-251012> Message-ID: > Areal comparisons don't hold, thermal expansion alone prevents just > increasing capacity physically. Vibration, too. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From evan947 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 13 21:51:21 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Stuff I'm bringing to VCF East In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040714025121.47791.qmail@web52801.mail.yahoo.com> David, I'd love to buy the TRS-80 Model 100 (you'll find me exhibiting vintage handhelds.) - Evan --- David Betz wrote: > I'm bringing the following stuff to VCF East in the hopes of finding it > new homes: > > 1) 2 PDT-11/150's (already spoken for) > 2) 2 DECmate III+'s (with hard drive and CP/M option) > 3) 1 DECmate III (dual floppies) > 4) 1 DEC Pro380 > 5) 1 DEC VR201 monitor > 6) 1 DEC LK201 keyboard > 7) 1 Radio Shack CoCo3 > 8) 1 Sun Sparc Classic X with software > 9) 1 SWTP 6800 > 10) 1 SWTP AC-30 with documentation > 11) 1 SWTP DMAF2 Floppy controller with documentation > 12) 1 NEC EVAKIT-8 evaluation kit with documentation (8080 clone) > 13) 1 Atari Portfolio with serial interface and memory cards and > documentation > 14) 1 TRS-80 Model 100 with cassette drive > 15) 1 Atari Jaguar with CD-ROM drive with some games > 16) 1 Micromint SB180 single board computer with documentation and > software > 17) 1 VAXstation 4000 VLC without hard drive > 18) 1 DEC hard drive that *may* work with the 4000 VLC > > What I'm hoping to acquire: > > 1) A complete kit for the SBC6120 > 2) A book on 6502 assembly language programming > > Once I get an SBC6120 up and running I will have an additional DECmate > III+ with VR201 and LK201 available. > > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jul 13 22:10:15 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Modern Electronics (was Re: List charter mods & headcount... ; -)) References: Message-ID: <40F4A417.90009@jetnet.ab.ca> Davison, Lee wrote: > We have big crowbar switches here. So just what do crowbar switches protect nowdays any how since often the magic smoke is let out most things? From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jul 13 22:18:15 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Modern Electronics (was Re: List charter mods & headcount... ; References: <200406230038.RAA17568@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <40F4A5F7.50401@jetnet.ab.ca> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi > Interesting. I know how, just about every part of, a microwave > oven works and I wouldn't have done this. I'd have thrown > the thing away and bought another at a garage sale. > You also have to realize that I'm the kind of fellow that > once did a field repair on broken points spring of > a car with some cardboard, tape and several springs from > some ballpoint pens. It got me home. > Also, I doubt that a normal wall light switch is rated for > that large of an inductive load. > Dwight > But they are cheap! I still think I have the best microwave oven design. HIGH,LOW,DEFROST buttons, and a rotory timer and power switch. No fancy buttons ... like how often do you set 1:37 seconds to heat your coffee? From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jul 13 22:35:58 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Dec Manuals Message-ID: <000701c46953$aedabf70$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> BTW - I have no interest in most of those manuals. If there are any specific to the 8E, and I don't already have them, then I'd want just those. The rest will go to people on the list, after Al scans the ones he wishes to scan. I've kept track of the responses ... they appear to be spoken for several times over. More to follow.... Jay From vrs at msn.com Tue Jul 13 22:37:18 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Modern Electronics (was Re: List charter mods & headcount... ; References: <200406230038.RAA17568@clulw009.amd.com> <40F4A5F7.50401@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <03ac01c46953$dda38620$6700a8c0@vrshome.msn.com> > But they are cheap! > I still think I have the best microwave oven design. > HIGH,LOW,DEFROST buttons, and a rotory timer and power switch. > No fancy buttons ... like how often do you set 1:37 seconds to heat your > coffee? I'd enter :97 (or easier, :99) for that, but I always enter :88, myself :-)! Vince From dvcorbin at optonline.net Tue Jul 13 22:54:06 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Modern Electronics (was Re: List charter mods & headcount... ; In-Reply-To: <40F4A5F7.50401@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: >>> >>> But they are cheap! >>> I still think I have the best microwave oven design. >>> HIGH,LOW,DEFROST buttons, and a rotory timer and power switch. >>> No fancy buttons ... like how often do you set 1:37 seconds >>> to heat your coffee? >>> >>> Only if the cup is between 10.7 (fl)oz and 13.2 (fl)oz, is curerently at room temperature and contains cream.... From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jul 13 22:50:07 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Modern Electronics (was Re: List charter mods & headcount... ; References: <1088004004.11575.18.camel@weka.localdomain> <002401c4593f$1425a680$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <40F4AD6F.6090207@jetnet.ab.ca> Teo Zenios wrote: > > The games industry is stagnating for the same reason the movie industry is, > it just costs too much money to make the product anymore so everybody tries > to copy anything that recently sold well. The only people taking chances are > the ones with a insignificant budget, which might work for some movies but > definatly doesnt work for games where eyecandy is what sells. But that is what is the main problem with the USA, every thing is eye-candy or high technology and no real new development. If you want real games look to the UK or the Japanese. Take a look at DVD's now days for a example ... US Movie (animated like shrek ) - all singing dancing menues,web site windows downloads and bounus games for your computer and on DVD 2 you even get the movie. Japanese Anime ( animated - Kiki's delivery service) you get a great movie in japanese,english or spanish or subtitled english with bonus material about the movie not last minute extras. > I bet that most people can think for themselves, but there is nothing in it > for them if they do. I have seen quite a few people do the bare minimum and > as long as they don't piss off the manager they keep their jobs. People who > try to inovate are the ones who get into the most trouble and if they fail > they usualy get the boot. True. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jul 13 22:54:12 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Modern Electronics (was Re: List charter mods & headcount... ; References: <200406230038.RAA17568@clulw009.amd.com> <40F4A5F7.50401@jetnet.ab.ca> <03ac01c46953$dda38620$6700a8c0@vrshome.msn.com> Message-ID: <40F4AE64.6050203@jetnet.ab.ca> vrs wrote: >>But they are cheap! >>I still think I have the best microwave oven design. >>HIGH,LOW,DEFROST buttons, and a rotory timer and power switch. >>No fancy buttons ... like how often do you set 1:37 seconds to heat your >>coffee? > > > I'd enter :97 (or easier, :99) for that, but I always enter :88, myself :-)! > > Vince > > Grumble I want to enter 177 seconds :) From aek at spies.com Tue Jul 13 23:20:30 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: DN5500 bits available Message-ID: <20040714042030.E784A3C94@spies.com> Wasn't expecting to get this lot.. http://www.auctionbdi.com/auctionbdi_ftp/san_jose/20040711/_0239.jpg If anyone needs 5500 bits, lmk. Preferably Bay Area, of course. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jul 14 00:25:49 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Modern Electronics (was Re: List charter mods & headcount... ; References: Message-ID: <40F4C3DD.4070601@jetnet.ab.ca> William Donzelli wrote: > For example, at the AWA TCA (Tube Collectors Association) meeting a couple > of years ago, we were all given a twenty-odd photocopy of all of the > Standardization Notices from RCA on how to make an type 45 triode. That > means ever last detail, down to what cement to use to glue the base to the > bulb. But can you make a few of them? > I can think of NO glaring holes in our knowledge of tubes. The holes that > do come to mind are really relatively minor - details like how many 6N6Gs > Sylvania made during the fourth quarter of 1938, and did Triad ever try to > make Loctal tubes. Note tubes are making a come back since the quality of speakers have improved since the 1960's. Ben. From aek at spies.com Wed Jul 14 00:33:04 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: The world is going to pieces... Message-ID: <20040714053304.3FC933D12@spies.com> > AARGH... Just looked on e-bay. There are a large number of pdp-8 items > listed by a single vendor. Looks like 1 or more /m systems has been > disassembled. Feel like I am watching humpty-dumpty, will the pieces ever > get back together again...... nope.. nothing heavy for the guy to ship either. 153.51 H212 102.50 H212 102.50 G111 50.00 G111 102.50 G233 86.00 G233 97.00 front panel 30.09 plex 74.77 8/M Omnibus 201.50 16 x top cons 50.00 M837 201.50 M7104 50.00 M8330 50.00 M8320 52.00 M8337 201.50 M7105 201.50 M7106 52.00 M840 52.00 M8335 52.00 M8336 50.00 M8300 50.00 M8310 52.00 M8655 ====== 2114.87 From wmaddox at pacbell.net Wed Jul 14 00:58:36 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: The world is going to pieces... In-Reply-To: <20040714053304.3FC933D12@spies.com> Message-ID: <20040714055836.47576.qmail@web81305.mail.yahoo.com> I met Alexandra (the seller) at a nearby Starbucks to pick up my loot (a core assembly and front panel) at her suggestion. We had coffee and talked about computers and electronics. It turns out that she deals mostly in microwave and radio gear, and had no idea that PDP-8s were so highly prized. I asked her about the status of the rest of the machine. It turns out that she had one box, dirty and a bit rusted, that she had discarded, not realizing that it too would fetch a good price or that the machine in one piece would fetch top-dollar, shipping and all. I think she was rather blown away by what people were bidding. I imagine if she ever comes across another classic machine, she will treat it with a bit more respect. I gave her a few pointers to the sort of things that were particularly collectible or interesting to members of the list, for example anything DEC, HP, or with "blinkenlights". She knew, that HP calculators are collectible, but didn't realize that anyone wanted the minis for anything other than parts or scrap. --Bill --- Al Kossow wrote: > > > > AARGH... Just looked on e-bay. There are a large > number of pdp-8 items > > listed by a single vendor. Looks like 1 or more /m > systems has been > > disassembled. Feel like I am watching > humpty-dumpty, will the pieces ever > > get back together again...... > > > nope.. > > nothing heavy for the guy to ship either. > > 153.51 H212 > 102.50 H212 > 102.50 G111 > 50.00 G111 > 102.50 G233 > 86.00 G233 > 97.00 front panel > 30.09 plex > 74.77 8/M Omnibus > 201.50 16 x top cons > 50.00 M837 > 201.50 M7104 > 50.00 M8330 > 50.00 M8320 > 52.00 M8337 > 201.50 M7105 > 201.50 M7106 > 52.00 M840 > 52.00 M8335 > 52.00 M8336 > 50.00 M8300 > 50.00 M8310 > 52.00 M8655 > > ====== > > 2114.87 > > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jul 14 00:53:40 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Modern Electronics (was Re: List charter mods & headcount... ; References: Message-ID: <40F4CA64.4090001@jetnet.ab.ca> Peter C. Wallace wrote: > This is a simple way to do divide on a FPGA since the carry chain is fast and > conditionally loading a register is easy... Cough Cough gag ... Not allways it depends on the FPGA brand for fast carry logic. I am still waiting for truth in FPGA advertising since I yet found a FPGA that meets my needs that can replace random logic well like board of 7400's and 7474's. Who knows just what logic functions are programmed into the FPGA since this information is rairly visible. Ben From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jul 14 01:06:36 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Modern Blinkenlights References: <200406200433.AAA26573@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <40F4CD6C.8010401@jetnet.ab.ca> der Mouse wrote: > Well, besides needing 136 diodes, I suppose. :-) Or somewhat fewer if > you apply a little intelligence; I can bring it down to somewhere near > 110 without much trouble, probably further with a bit more thought > (and/or a bit more additional logic). Well if you want real Blinking lights decode using LEDS. :) From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jul 14 01:31:19 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Modern Electronics (was Re: List charter mods & headcount... ; References: <0406210239.AA23609@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <40F4D337.6050801@jetnet.ab.ca> Michael Sokolov wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > No modern cranes or other machinery can come even close to building > the 3 Orion pyramids on the Giza plateau or the Baalbek stone platform > in the mountains of Lebanon. The only technology that can build such > structures is antigravity, which is how they were actually built. Why anti-gravity ??? All anti-gravity can do is move the stone blocks? How where they cut? Why were they built out quarryed stone, if the same level of technology implies matter transport at the atomic level then they could be built instead from the raw stone? Technology is faster or bigger not allways better. Ben. From GOOI at oce.nl Wed Jul 14 02:14:16 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: FW: RK05 question Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102CC4@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Hmm. So in your mind experiment you keep the 12 sector pulses and the track pulse, and deliver the track pulse with 16 sector pulses to the hardware of the drive logic. Using the 12 sector pulses will probably produce a more stable 16 sector pulse signal as the PLL is kept in lock in shorter intervals. But what would the PLL circuit do when it gets 12 sector pulses (that is fine) *_and_* at some odd moment the extra track pulse ...? I was thinking of *only* the track pulse and get the PLL locked on that pulse only, assuming that the stability of the PLL is sufficient for one revolution. From the N divider is would be easy to get the sector pulses. So, I cover all the sector slits on the hub of the disk. But as you said (I did not know that part and did not check on an RK05 pack I have at home), the track pulse is not halfway two sectors. Some separate binary comparator could check the N divider outputs and then you simply set a binary number to the comparator when it should give the track pulse. - Henk. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Paul Koning > Sent: dinsdag 13 juli 2004 16:38 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: FW: RK05 question > > > >>>>> "Gooijen" == Gooijen H writes: > > Gooijen> Isn't the track index pulse == the one pulse that is fed to > Gooijen> the PLL phase comparator? That pulse is used to synchronize > Gooijen> the oscillator that must run at 12 (or 16) times the > Gooijen> frequency between 2 sector pulses to generate the (missing) > Gooijen> sector pulses .... or am I mistaken here? > > No, what I meant is to derive the 16x sector pulses from the 12x > sector pulses, keeping the track pulse as it is. But either would be > possible. > > The track slot is close to the first sector slot (it's not halfway > between sectors). What I don't remember is how close, or whether the > sector slot spacing around the track index is the same as elsewhere, > or different. That would affect the PLL design a lot... > > To do this right would require measuring the angular positions of all > the slots on a 12 sector and 16 sector pack, to see just what the > pattern looks like and how to transform one to the other. > > paul From ed at groenenberg.net Wed Jul 14 02:38:54 2004 From: ed at groenenberg.net (Ed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: CDC 9762 vs. RM02/03? In-Reply-To: <40F3AC25.7080303@hp.com> References: <000101c467ae$6a4650a0$707ba8c0@xpdesk> <40F3AC25.7080303@hp.com> Message-ID: <46543.192.18.200.10.1089790734.squirrel@192.18.200.10> On Di, 13 juli, 2004 11:32 am, Wai-Sun Chia zei: > I have some conflicting info here. On one hand the literature says that > DEC rebadged the CDC9762 as RM02 and RM03s... > > OTOH, the CDC has a SMD interface yet the RM02/03 has a MASSBUS interface. > > Furthermore, the CDC is listed to be at 80MB, yet the RM02/03 apparently > has 67MB only. > > So, which is true? I'm confused. > > > Thanks. > /wai-sun > The RM02/03 have als a SMD interface, but it is slightly modified. The RM03 has a separate controller in the drive cabinet, which is the interface between the massbus and the modified SMD interface. Apparently, 2 or 3 cards in the card cage are modified for/by Dec to their needs. The 80Mb may be unformatted capacity, while the 67Mb is the formatted capacity, but I'm not entirely sure. My RM03 still has to be used with my 11/70..... Ed From d-gordon at sbcglobal.net Wed Jul 14 02:53:25 2004 From: d-gordon at sbcglobal.net (d-gordon@sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor In-Reply-To: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102CC4@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Message-ID: <000001c46977$a4d90fd0$0402a8c0@D1> Hello: I need some advise, if someone can please help me out regarding identifying what this monitor is for. I have been given an older 20' Mitsubishi monitor with two 15 pin connectors on the back (signal A, Signal B) along with 5 of the round connectors with the two pins on each. Each round silver connector is labled R, G, B, Comp HD, and VD, respectively, obviously some sort of color connectors for RGB color, I think. It has no video cables for the 15 pin connectors, so it looks like I need a male-male cable to attach it to a PC. I am not sure what type of system it is supposed to connect to (PC, MAC, whatever). That's what my question is. I am unfamiliar with dealing with fancy monitors like this with all the connections. I did a Google search and it said it cost $2235 years ago, but no other info is available. Below is the model number: MITSUBISHI (Model #HC3925KTK) 20" .31 DOT 800X600 NI $2235. On the front it says, Diamond Scan 20M and another label says "Digital Post". Maybe its for a Digital computer. 1.) So, is this monitor worth anything? 2.) What computer can I test it on today, to see if it works? A PC or a MAC, Sun? I don't know. This seems like a dumb question, but I have not seen a monitor before with this sort of connections, so I would appreciate som advise on this monstrosity of a monitor. It's a giant thing! From phabi0 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 14 03:05:37 2004 From: phabi0 at yahoo.com (Phab E. Oh) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Need help with monitor in Japan Message-ID: <20040714080537.66005.qmail@web61302.mail.yahoo.com> Hi All. I'm in Japan and having a problem with a US monitor. It won't turn on...no power light or power up noises or anything. So I measured voltage across neutral and ground and there was 8VAC. So I got an electrician to wire up a proper ground. There's still 1VAC across Neutral and Ground. So I have two theories: 1) The monitor is seeing the floating ground and not liking it and refusing to turn on. 2) The monitor requires at least 110V (I'm getting 103V). I'd hate to think this thing just died, so can anyone confirm that a ground to neutral measurement should yield 0V or some very negligible voltage? Assuming the above two theories are bunk...any other ideas? Thanks for any help anyone can provide :( Thanks! Sellam __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From bert at brothom.nl Wed Jul 14 04:01:50 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Modern Electronics (was Re: List charter mods & headcount... ; References: <40F4C3DD.4070601@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <40F4F67E.339BD412@brothom.nl> ben franchuk wrote: > > Note tubes are making a come back since the quality of speakers have > improved since the 1960's. > Ben. I aggree that tubes are making a come back, but I don't understand what that has to do with the quality of speakers... Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that tube amplifiers sound "different" than semiconductor amplifiers because certain harmonics are supressed or distorted or something like that. But I don't understand why people like that. With todays technology its simple and cheap to build an amplifier with a bandwidth of 100KHz and a constant phase shift over that range. Why would you listen to something less good then "perfect" ? Or am I completely ignorant/stupid here? Bert From m.wickens at rhodium-consulting.com Wed Jul 14 03:30:57 2004 From: m.wickens at rhodium-consulting.com (Mark Wickens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor In-Reply-To: <000001c46977$a4d90fd0$0402a8c0@D1> Message-ID: <000501c4697c$e43f6e80$7104a8c0@max> The two 15 pin connectors, assuming they are d-subs (high-density of pins) are VGA compatible connectors - you should be able to plug a male-male cable in and get a display from a PC (or an adaptor cable for a MAC). There are two so you can connect the monitor to two different PCs (there may be an on-screen menu to select between the two, or a button on the panel). High-end monitors typically require a separate cable rather than having one 'built in'. The RGB connectors are an older standard for high quality video - you can get VGA - RGB cables, or for example VAXen/VAXstations would come with a cable to hook up to RGB. The Comp HD and VD are for composite signals, the kind you would generally get out of a video camcorder or similar. I have a modern Iiyama flat panel that has a similar array of connectors. Maximum flexibility! Hope that helps, Mark. p.s. as for the question of worth - probably only what it's worth to you. Although modern large format monitors are now frowned up and are getting less frequently used in new installations they do provide a cost effective solution for getting maximum screen real estate, if you have the desk space. Most people would be reserved about buying an older monitor because of general deterioration in the sharpness of the picture, but if it has a good picture for you then great! Mark Wickens Rhodium Consulting Ltd -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of d-gordon@sbcglobal.net Sent: 14 July 2004 08:53 To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor Hello: I need some advise, if someone can please help me out regarding identifying what this monitor is for. I have been given an older 20' Mitsubishi monitor with two 15 pin connectors on the back (signal A, Signal B) along with 5 of the round connectors with the two pins on each. Each round silver connector is labled R, G, B, Comp HD, and VD, respectively, obviously some sort of color connectors for RGB color, I think. It has no video cables for the 15 pin connectors, so it looks like I need a male-male cable to attach it to a PC. I am not sure what type of system it is supposed to connect to (PC, MAC, whatever). That's what my question is. I am unfamiliar with dealing with fancy monitors like this with all the connections. I did a Google search and it said it cost $2235 years ago, but no other info is available. Below is the model number: MITSUBISHI (Model #HC3925KTK) 20" .31 DOT 800X600 NI $2235. On the front it says, Diamond Scan 20M and another label says "Digital Post". Maybe its for a Digital computer. 1.) So, is this monitor worth anything? 2.) What computer can I test it on today, to see if it works? A PC or a MAC, Sun? I don't know. This seems like a dumb question, but I have not seen a monitor before with this sort of connections, so I would appreciate som advise on this monstrosity of a monitor. It's a giant thing! From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Wed Jul 14 04:12:14 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor References: <000001c46977$a4d90fd0$0402a8c0@D1> Message-ID: <004001c46982$b5a26400$0200a8c0@geoff> http://www.questinc.com/catalog/monitors/monitors-MITSUBISHI-HC3925KTK.html See if above link is any help. Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 8:53 AM Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor > Hello: > I need some advise, if someone can please help me out regarding > identifying what this monitor is for. I have been given an older 20' > Mitsubishi monitor with two 15 pin connectors on the back (signal A, Signal > B) along with 5 of the round connectors with the two pins on each. Each > round silver connector is labled R, G, B, Comp HD, and VD, respectively, > obviously some sort of color connectors for RGB color, I think. It has no > video cables for the 15 pin connectors, so it looks like I need a male-male > cable to attach it to a PC. I am not sure what type of system it is > supposed to connect to (PC, MAC, whatever). That's what my question is. I > am unfamiliar with dealing with fancy monitors like this with all the > connections. I did a Google search and it said it cost $2235 years ago, > but no other info is available. Below is the model number: > MITSUBISHI (Model #HC3925KTK) 20" .31 DOT 800X600 NI $2235. On the front it > says, Diamond Scan 20M and another label says "Digital Post". Maybe its for > a Digital computer. > > 1.) So, is this monitor worth anything? > > 2.) What computer can I test it on today, to see if it works? A PC or a MAC, > Sun? I don't know. > > This seems like a dumb question, but I have not seen a monitor before with > this sort of connections, so I would appreciate som advise on this > monstrosity of a monitor. It's a giant thing! > > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Jul 14 04:25:10 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Modern Electronics (was Re: List charter mods & headcount... ; In-Reply-To: <011d01c4575c$6691dea0$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <011d01c4575c$6691dea0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <4fd64bce4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <011d01c4575c$6691dea0$5b01a8c0@athlon> "Antonio Carlini" wrote: > I don't know who recommends the Sharp, but the broken > (crushed screen) Casio fx-83WA that my kids both use I've got two fairly recent LCD calculators - a Casio fx-82SX "FRACTION" and a Sharp EL-531VH "Advanced DAL". > (hence the broken screen...) has x^y and x ROOT y, > 10^x and log, e^x and ln, trig functions and their > inverses and the hyperbolic version, and standard > deviation. My Casio has most of those, except x ROOT y. The Sharp does everything you mentioned, but the display contrast is abysmal. Look at it straight-on and you can barely see anything; look at the display from a 35-degree angle and you can actually see what it's up to. I've got a Commodore MM3MW LED calculator - made in the late 70s FWICT. It's a shame no-one seems to make LED calculators anymore - I could live with the short time between recharges, but I guess most other people couldn't be bothered (the Commodore has gone a fair few weeks on a single set of 750mAh NiMH cells). Heck, my mobile phone needs recharging every few days, charging a calculator at the same time wouldn't be a big deal. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... BNFL : Buy No Fish Locally From cheri-post at web.de Wed Jul 14 04:36:25 2004 From: cheri-post at web.de (Pierre Gebhardt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Very important: Restoration of an Onyx Systems C8002 Message-ID: <425584203@web.de> Hi all ! Two years ago, a friend of mine gave me a micro which was the first one to use Unix commercially back in 1981. He told me that there was problem with the power supply. With the harddisk connected, a short circuit is produced. When it's disconncected, the Onyx doesn't work correctly, the system isn't stable. He gave me 15 QIC-Tapes with it, unfortunately no documents. Ok, so far about his information... On the internet, there's little information about the Onyx but nothing what could help. Last week, I decided to resurrect this machine, and to be honest: It's not in a good condition. :-( Things I did until now: - Replaced the fuse which was blown (somebody used the system by bypassing the dead fuse with a cable...) - Replaced the broken reset switch - Replaced the reel of the tape drive (the rubber one near the read and write head which transports the tape What's in this micro ? - CPU: Zilog 8002 @ 4 MHz - memory: 256-512kb - HDD: IMI 7720 - Tape drive: DEI (Data Electronic INC) Qic-Tape drive (you can find the document at Al's collection) - 8 terminals can be connected Moreover,serveral tapes are corroded. One of the two memory boards is not connected to the mainboard. There is a notice dated from '84 wich sais that the board is defective. With the HDD disconnected, the machine turns on, the voltages at the power supply do not leave the 5% tolerance-This leaves me to the conclusion that the supply is in good working condition. I connected a VT420 as a console terminal (there's a port for that purpose) which emulates a VT100 but nothing appears on the screen (I tried out several baud rates...). There are lots of test points on the board, serveral of these are used to messure the voltage level. And at the I/O-Board where the terminals are connected appears another problem: the 5V test Point gives out 4,15 V... There's some work to do to bring the C8002 back to life. It seems to me that this machine is very rare and that it's therefore worth to invest some work to resurrect it. But what I mostly need is your help. Is anybody familiar with the Onyx computers ? Of course, one important thing are the documents, as there are many LEDs on the boards and I just don't know their meaning. Scanning these (if they exist) is not nessecary, email communicatio n would be enough for me. Same for the IMI hard drive... I could make some photos is anybody is interested. Best Regards Pierre ____________________________________________________ Aufnehmen, abschicken, nah sein - So einfach ist WEB.DE Video-Mail: http://freemail.web.de/?mc=021200 From vp at cs.drexel.edu Wed Jul 14 05:11:16 2004 From: vp at cs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: HP-86/87: Uploading floppy images over a serial connection Message-ID: <200407141011.i6EABGin014751@queen.cs.drexel.edu> A lot of people have been asking me how to transfer the contents of HP Series 80 floppies to a modern machine (and vice versa, of course). Up till now I have been using my Integral PC to upload binary images of the Series 80 floppies. The reason I prefer the images to the files created by LIFUTIL, is that the image can be copied back to a new floppy without dealing with the filename conversions, restoring the diskette volume name, etc. The problem with this approach is that only people with Integral PCs (or other HP-UX systems with HP-IB interfaces) may use this path [1], plus that I need to unpack and fiddle with the Integral PC every time I need to make a copy. Moreover, getting the stuff *off* the IPC is a pain because I only have the HP-IB interface. Anyway, while reading the old PCC Computer Journal issues, I came across a very interesting article by Pete Goffinet on how to use the HP binary utility "r" which is provided with the HP-86/87 Demo Disc. "r" is a binary program that contains two commands, RSECTOR for reading arbitrary sectors of an HP-IB mass storage device, and WSECTOR for writing them! I have written a pair of programs (one for the HP-87 and another for my Unix box) that allow entire images to be uploaded using an HP-87 with a serial interface. Writing a program to download images is also trivial. Do note that the programs I have written are unbelievably slooooow. If anybody can come up with some sort of speedup, pls let me know. Also, "r" works only on the HP-86/87, so the procedure will *not* work with an HP-85 (or HP-83). If anybody has an equivalent binary program for the HP-85, pls send it along. For more info read the article "Transferring diskette images from an HP-86/7 to a PC via a serial connection" at http://www.series80.org/Articles/xfer.html The HP-86/87 Demo Disc is also available at: http://www.series80.org/Programs/DEMO87/index.html (I'll also post a utility for listings and unbundling LIF floppies on a Unix box in the next couple of days). **vp [1] If you use Linux, note, that there is a comprehensive package for reading LIF floppies, called lifutils, written by Tony Duell. Unfortunately it does not run under OpenBSD which is the system I am using. From aek at spies.com Wed Jul 14 07:23:56 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Very important: Restoration of an Onyx Systems C8002 Message-ID: <20040714122356.158CA3D12@spies.com> He gave me 15 QIC-Tapes with it, unfortunately no documents. -- Moreover,serveral tapes are corroded. -- There were many different recording formats used with DC300 style tape cartridges before the QIC standards were established. Onyx tapes predate those standards. Assuming the tape itself isn't damaged, you can put the reels into new shells. You will need to use a DEI drive to read them. As I keep telling people, DON'T EXPERIMENT WITH TAPES YOU CARE ABOUT WITH DRIVES IN UNKNOWN CONDITION! It sounds like the capstan was bad in the unit, try some other cart you don't care about before risking these tapes (which are quite rare) in that drive. It would be a good thing to take high resolution pics of the boards and to dump any programmable parts. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jul 14 07:48:53 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Archive 5945C tape drive - Emulex or Adaptec interface board? In-Reply-To: <20040713214710.E7BF43D5F@spies.com> References: <20040713214710.E7BF43D5F@spies.com> Message-ID: <1089809332.15252.33.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 21:47, Al Kossow wrote: > > Emulex MW0210402's > > -- > > Should be MT02 A google for Emulex MW0210402 turns up: http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/Systems/Sun4/RMVBL_Emulex_MT02.html ...which *suggests* that it's an MT02 board, just with a potentially different ROM and (better?) support for both Archive and Wangtek drives. I'm assuming from that page that they're interchangable as far as driving an Archive tape drive. Certainly the board layout looks the same. I'll give it a try... > MT02's are SCSI common command set and > can read QIC-11 or QIC-24 formats. > > If the carts are DC300,450, or 600 and they were written on a > 80's - ish unix box, they will probably be readable with a 5945 > and MT02. Good to hear. I've just found a original Olivetti floppy amongst the pile containing tape drivers for a 3B2 machine, so there's a reasonable chance that's what the tapes were written on. (all these floppies, tapes, and general other detritus were ust tipped into three drawers in a storage room, so there's no guarantees. I actually remember someone from the same site offering a 3B2 last year, so that could well have been the very same system which wrote these tapes. Wish I'd grabbed it now as there's a pretty good chance all of these floppies (and I'm hoping the tapes too) were once internal to the offices of Topologika (and so quite a nice find for an Acorn collector). > Be ABSOLUTELY sure that the capstan hasn't deteriorated before > trying to do anything with a tape you care about, though. Most > drives that old have rubber that has turned to goo, or WILL turn > to goo once heat is applied though the motor shaft. It feels good - it doesn't seem to have dried but on the other hand I can't leave a mark on it with my fingernail so unless it changes drastically when warm it sohuld be ok. I'll test with a blank tape first, of course :) (somewhere I actually have a cleaning kit for these drives too) > Docs for both the Archive drive and MT02 are up on bitsavers. Thanks! :) cheers, Jules From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Jul 14 08:03:14 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Disk Capacity.... References: <1089757606.6044.7.camel@dhcp-251012> Message-ID: <16629.12050.232983.9036@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Jennings writes: Tom> Areal comparisons don't hold, thermal expansion alone prevents Tom> just increasing capacity physically. It's not a coincidence the Tom> bigger drives are physically smaller. I'm not sure why thermal expansion would matter; the servo can track that trivially. >From what I've heard, the reason for smaller drives is to allow them to spin faster while maintaining acceptable size spindle motors, and of course to reduce the seek distances. Access times for high end disk drives are in the single milliseconds now -- that includes BOTH an "average" seek and the time for 1/2 rotation. Apparently, 15,000 rpm drives (high end fibre channel drives) have lower capacity than slower drives not just because the areal density is less, but also because the platter is smaller. You're getting what is effectively a 2.5 inch drive packaged into a 3.5 inch chassis. The reason the platter is that small is that you can't spin a 3.5 inch sized platter at 15k rpm with acceptable motor power. All this means that the modern way to large capacity is to combine lots of (physically) small drives -- in other words, RAID. That also gives you fault tolerance, and increased performance by putting more heads to work. Tom> Encoding for modern data densities has long abandoned the Tom> simplistic schemes used in the deep past, too, and require tons Tom> of logic and software support to pull off. Yes, and this is all packaged in just a small handful of hairy ASICs. Modern data encode/decode schemes involve complex digital signal processing at very uncivilized speeds... paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Jul 14 08:16:55 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: FW: RK05 question References: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102CC4@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Message-ID: <16629.12871.927448.515572@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Gooijen" == Gooijen H writes: Gooijen> Hmm. So in your mind experiment you keep the 12 sector Gooijen> pulses and the track pulse, and deliver the track pulse with Gooijen> 16 sector pulses to the hardware of the drive logic. Using Gooijen> the 12 sector pulses will probably produce a more stable 16 Gooijen> sector pulse signal as the PLL is kept in lock in shorter Gooijen> intervals. Gooijen> But what would the PLL circuit do when it gets 12 sector Gooijen> pulses (that is fine) *_and_* at some odd moment the extra Gooijen> track pulse ...? If the loop bandwidth is right, it will ignore the track pulse as noise. That assumes that the sector pulses are spaced equally everywhere including at the track start. Gooijen> I was thinking of *only* the track pulse and get the PLL Gooijen> locked on that pulse only, assuming that the stability of Gooijen> the PLL is sufficient for one revolution. From the N divider Gooijen> is would be easy to get the sector pulses. So, I cover all Gooijen> the sector slits on the hub of the disk. I was thinking that the "right" design would work with unmodified packs, by electronically ignoring the marks it doesn't need. Gooijen> But as you said (I did not know that part and did not check Gooijen> on an RK05 pack I have at home), the track pulse is not Gooijen> halfway two sectors. Some separate binary comparator could Gooijen> check the N divider outputs and then you simply set a binary Gooijen> number to the comparator when it should give the track Gooijen> pulse. The key question is what the positions of the slots are. If the sector slots are equally spaced, they can drive a sector pulse PLL (and the track pulse can simply be taken from the track slot). If there's a spacing irregularity at the track start, then you'd need to create a high frequency clock from the track pulse, and divide it down to produce the sector pulses at the right spacing. That wouldn't be too hard either; for example, if you create a clock at 360x the track pulse rate, you get 1 degree resolution on your synthesized sector pulses... paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Jul 14 08:21:32 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Need help with monitor in Japan References: <20040714080537.66005.qmail@web61302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <16629.13148.830446.125658@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Phab" == Phab E Oh writes: Phab> Hi All. I'm in Japan and having a problem with a US Phab> monitor. It won't turn on...no power light or power up noises Phab> or anything. Phab> So I measured voltage across neutral and ground and there was Phab> 8VAC. So I got an electrician to wire up a proper ground. Phab> There's still 1VAC across Neutral and Ground. Shoddy wiring... not quite as shoddy now, but still pretty bad. Phab> So I have two theories: Phab> 1) The monitor is seeing the floating ground and not liking it Phab> and refusing to turn on. 2) The monitor requires at least 110V Phab> (I'm getting 103V). Phab> I'd hate to think this thing just died, so can anyone confirm Phab> that a ground to neutral measurement should yield 0V or some Phab> very negligible voltage? You can test that by wiring up a temporary adapter that connects ground and neutral together. Do NOT use that for normal operation because that would be dangerous. I doubt that's the cause, though. The low voltage may be the reason. But competent designers know that Japan's nominal AC voltage is lower than the USA -- so the standard test spec for power supplies is 95 to 265 volts (low end of Japan to high end of UK). If you can get your hands on a Variac that has the winding extending beyond the input, you can boost the voltage to the monitor. You might try a different location. It may be that you're suffering from really bad wiring with unusually large voltage drop. Phab> Assuming the above two theories are bunk...any other ideas? Your monitor may be busted... :-( paul From wacarder at usit.net Wed Jul 14 08:47:03 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Looking for Thom Restivo Message-ID: <001001c469a9$0c15eed0$99100f14@mcothran1> Thom Restivo is supposed to be coming to VCF-East and should be in the Boston area on Thursday. I am trying to contact him on his cell phone but I keep getting voice mail. If someone sees him on Thursday or early Friday, could you ask him to call me at 803-920-2064? He's supposed to be picking some equipment up for me on Friday, but I need to talk to him to work out the logistics. Thanks, Ashley Carder From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Jul 14 08:53:48 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: Help with :CAT optical Reader Message-ID: <009b01c469a9$fe295e50$30406b43@66067007> I guy told me that the :C optical reader was great for scanning books into your computer, so I got one out of the warehouse and loaded the software that came with it. Now the problem is I can not get to the company website to get the code to use the software? Does anyone know if there is a generic code that I can use to work the scanner? I want to start scanning in all the books in the collection into my laptop (I have over 1200 books to enter). Thanks for any help or leads in finding the company or the code. From billdeg at degnanco.com Wed Jul 14 09:00:55 2004 From: billdeg at degnanco.com (B.Degnan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: notes on "." hosting quote Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040714095938.02f79750@mail.degnanco.net> Chuck, In the future [1] If not a company, the persons name is the "Your Organization" field value. [2] !!!! Never enter a customer's CC info into hosting quote (comments). Never enter a customer's cc info into a non-secure form for any reason. We have a payments program for cc info collecting. There is a link right on the hosting quote page after you finish for making payments for entering a customers cc info. In the most recent quote you transmitted a customer's cc info (below) over the web in a way that could pose both the customer and degnanco at risk of liability. If you need training about what secure forms are for let me know otherwise please respond that you understand this very important concept. In a related note you should never launch a web site to the public that has a credit card payment page that is not secure (https://) [3] check for an example in existing hosting quotes for how to complete the text/wording for new hosting quote. bd At Tuesday, 13 July 2004, you wrote: >D E G N A N C O >Confirmation Receipt from Degnan Co. Service Request >IMPORTANT! Save this email for future reference. >Please contact help@degnanco.net or call 302 421-9377 immediately if any information is in error! >Unless you have indicated otherwise, you will be contacted within 24 hours. You are not obligated to purchase services, and a service agreement or purchase order is required to begin your subscription. If you wish to fax your quote, print this page and send it to 302 421-9941 Attn: Service Quote. If you have any questions call 302 421-9377 or email info@degnanco.net or your assigned network rep. > >Customer Quote > >Domain Serviceshttp://www.davidlarned.comdomain transferNetwork Solutions > >DAVIDLARNED >bonnat > >davelarned@hotmail.com > >Web hosting ServicesWeb site transfer. Free Mailboxes. 1 year pre- paid $119.40 (or $9.95/mo.)http://davidlarned.comNetwork SolutionsNA >Mailboxes/email forwarding Servicesmail services requestedMailbox: info@davidlarned.com > >Forward To: davelarned@hotmail.com >pop_email servicesNo POP eMail requested >Total Setup Charges:$ $25.00 >Set up charges include transferring your web site to our network, domain transfer processing, data source setup, setting permissions for CGI's, setting up FTP account, etc. We make sure your site works on our network for you! >Total Monthly Charges:$ Web site transfer. Free Mailboxes. 1 year pre-paid $119.40 (or $9.95/mo.) > >----------------------------------------------------------------- >Customer Information >Your Name: David Larned >Your Organization:. >E-mail: davelarned@hotmail.com > >Street: 503 Kennett Pike > >Address Ln. 2: > >City: Chadds Ford > >Province/State: PA > >Postal Code: 19317 > >Country: USA > >Daytime Phone: 302-275-9344 > >Fax: 610-388-0896 > >----------------------------------------------------------------- >Payment Information and Options > >Payment Method: Credit > >Comments: >Visa >David C Larned Jr >4270 8100 1848 ccc5 >969 >9.06 exp > >----------------------------------------------------------------- > > From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Wed Jul 14 09:00:41 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:16 2005 Subject: notes on "." hosting quote In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040714095938.02f79750@mail.degnanco.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040714095938.02f79750@mail.degnanco.net> Message-ID: <40F53C89.1010900@ntlworld.com> oops From dan at ekoan.com Wed Jul 14 09:29:09 2004 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Help with :CAT optical Reader In-Reply-To: <009b01c469a9$fe295e50$30406b43@66067007> References: <009b01c469a9$fe295e50$30406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040714101839.05c62870@enigma> At 09:53 AM 7/14/04, you wrote: >I want to start scanning in all the >books in the collection into my laptop (I have over 1200 books to enter). >Thanks for any help or leads in finding the company or the code. A Google search for "cuecat" will find a number of links, which is the model of bar code reader Radio Shack was giving away. If you add "ISBN" and "Amazon" to the search, it will narrow down the results to sites more relevant to your request. For scanning books, try this: http://www.eblong.com/zarf/bookscan/index.html Cheers, Dan From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Jul 14 09:24:44 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Help with :CAT optical Reader In-Reply-To: <009b01c469a9$fe295e50$30406b43@66067007> References: <009b01c469a9$fe295e50$30406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <5d4367ce4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <009b01c469a9$fe295e50$30406b43@66067007> "Keys" wrote: > I guy told me that the :C optical reader was great for scanning books into > your computer, so I got one out of the warehouse and loaded the software > that came with it. The CueCat (aka :C) is a barcode scanner, not a text scanner. You can scan barcodes with it and it dumps the data (in an encoded format) into the keyboard buffer. > Now the problem is I can not get to the company website > to get the code to use the software? DigitalConvergence went bankrupt a few years ago. The servers that :CRQ used to look up barcodes are dead anyway. > I want to start scanning in all the > books in the collection into my laptop (I have over 1200 books to enter). If you just want to create a database of books, with ISBN numbers and suchlike, there is some software out there. I think I used "Catnip" from - there's also another driver available from . YMMV. Speaking of CueCats, I really should get another one, reverse engineer the analog front-end, then graft a PIC microcontroller onto it and DIY a barcode decoder. Hmm. Sounds like fun :P ISTR there were also some HP barcode wands listed on VCM - I wonder if they've been sold yet... Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... RAM = Rarely Adequate Memory From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Wed Jul 14 09:18:54 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: OT dsl Message-ID: <40F540CE.9010007@ntlworld.com> I have been looking at bulldogdsl they have a 4 meg line with 400k up for 30 pounds a month. Has anyone hear used this or know anyone that does. I was wondering about reliability this is less then I pay ntl for a 1mb line. They also have 8 fixed ip's for an extra 9 a month. It seems too cheap to me. Thanks Dan From kth at srv.net Wed Jul 14 10:11:58 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Help with :CAT optical Reader In-Reply-To: <5d4367ce4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> References: <009b01c469a9$fe295e50$30406b43@66067007> <5d4367ce4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <40F54D3E.5070202@srv.net> Philip Pemberton wrote: >In message <009b01c469a9$fe295e50$30406b43@66067007> > "Keys" wrote: > > > >>I guy told me that the :C optical reader was great for scanning books into >>your computer, so I got one out of the warehouse and loaded the software >>that came with it. >> >> >The CueCat (aka :C) is a barcode scanner, not a text scanner. You can scan >barcodes with it and it dumps the data (in an encoded format) into the >keyboard buffer. > > > >>Now the problem is I can not get to the company website >>to get the code to use the software? >> >> >DigitalConvergence went bankrupt a few years ago. The servers that :CRQ used >to look up barcodes are dead anyway. > > > >>I want to start scanning in all the >>books in the collection into my laptop (I have over 1200 books to enter). >> >> >If you just want to create a database of books, with ISBN numbers and >suchlike, there is some software out there. I think I used "Catnip" from > - there's also another driver available from >. YMMV. >Speaking of CueCats, I really should get another one, reverse engineer the >analog front-end, then graft a PIC microcontroller onto it and DIY a barcode >decoder. Hmm. Sounds like fun :P >ISTR there were also some HP barcode wands listed on VCM - I wonder if >they've been sold yet... > >Later. > > Instead of going through all that trouble, on most of the cuecats there is a jumper you can install to make it dump out plain barcodes. http://linas.org/banned/cuecat/spay/ or search for "cuecat" and "spay" From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jul 14 10:07:08 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: OT dsl In-Reply-To: <40F540CE.9010007@ntlworld.com> References: <40F540CE.9010007@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <1089817628.15252.61.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 14:18, Dan Williams wrote: > I have been looking at bulldogdsl they have a 4 meg line with 400k up > for 30 pounds a month. Has anyone hear used this or know anyone that > does. I was wondering about reliability this is less then I pay ntl for > a 1mb line. They also have 8 fixed ip's for an extra 9 a month. It seems > too cheap to me. Could anything possibly be worse than NTL for reliability? :-) If I get one more "filesystem error" out of their email servers I'm going to go round there in person and hit them over the head with something heavy.. Do you need to be subscribed to BT for their phone line in order to make use of a DSL company which uses the BT infrastructure? It used to be the case (reason the only choice I had was to go with NTL) but I'm not sure if it still is. cheers Jules From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Wed Jul 14 12:09:40 2004 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: RZ25-E in a VAXstation 4000 vlc? Message-ID: <97F809DE-D5B8-11D8-BEA5-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> I have a VAXstation 4000 vlc without an internal hard disk and a spare RZ25-E drive. I had thought I could install the drive in the vlc but it seems from inspection that the vlc needs a lower profile drive. What drives are compatible with the vlc? If it won't work as an internal drive, I guess I can install the RZ25-E in an external SCSI enclosure. Should that work with the vlc? From wacarder at usit.net Wed Jul 14 12:32:25 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Looking for Thom Restivo References: <001001c469a9$0c15eed0$99100f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <000c01c469c8$87edf0b0$99100f14@mcothran1> I've gotten in touch with Thom, so no need to tell him I'm looking for him. Thanks, Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Carder" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 9:47 AM Subject: Looking for Thom Restivo Thom Restivo is supposed to be coming to VCF-East and should be in the Boston area on Thursday. I am trying to contact him on his cell phone but I keep getting voice mail. If someone sees him on Thursday or early Friday, could you ask him to call me at 803-920-2064? He's supposed to be picking some equipment up for me on Friday, but I need to talk to him to work out the logistics. Thanks, Ashley Carder From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Wed Jul 14 13:54:45 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: RZ25-E in a VAXstation 4000 vlc? In-Reply-To: <97F809DE-D5B8-11D8-BEA5-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> Message-ID: <002101c469d4$078fbbe0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > I have a VAXstation 4000 vlc without an internal hard disk > and a spare > RZ25-E drive. I had thought I could install the drive in the > vlc but it > seems from inspection that the vlc needs a lower profile drive. Yes it does. I think mine came with an RZ23L in it. I swapped in a Fujitsu 1GB SCSI drive that I had lying around. > What > drives are compatible with the vlc? If it won't work as an internal > drive, I guess I can install the RZ25-E in an external SCSI > enclosure. > Should that work with the vlc? IIRC there's a SCSI connector on the rear so you should be able to hook up an external enclosure and check that the console sees the new drive(s). I'd be surprised if *any* DEC RZ drive failed to work. I'd expect the success with non-DEC drives to be entirely OS-dependant (assuming you sort out the usual issues with active termination and so on). OpenVMS V6.1 (or so) onwards is pretty tolerant of SCSi drives ... I don't know about the BSD family and Linux-VAX is not (yet) ready to play with disks (AFAIK). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Wed Jul 14 13:57:19 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: OT dsl In-Reply-To: <1089817628.15252.61.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <002201c469d4$635589f0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > Could anything possibly be worse than NTL for reliability? > :-) If I get > one more "filesystem error" out of their email servers I'm going to go > round there in person and hit them over the head with > something heavy.. If I offer to help, would it be better to carry one object twice as heavy or should we bring separate cudgels. We'll obviously have to coordinate this via phone since my email seems to be a bit erratic right now :-) > Do you need to be subscribed to BT for their phone line in > order to make > use of a DSL company which uses the BT infrastructure? It > used to be the > case (reason the only choice I had was to go with NTL) but > I'm not sure > if it still is. Most of the ADSL schemes require a BT landline - they depend on BT being obliged to provide access to the BT network. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Wed Jul 14 13:48:16 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Disk Capacity.... In-Reply-To: <16629.12050.232983.9036@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <001f01c469d3$2014b360$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > Apparently, 15,000 rpm drives (high end fibre channel drives) have > lower capacity than slower drives not just because the areal density > is less, but also because the platter is smaller. You're getting what > is effectively a 2.5 inch drive packaged into a 3.5 inch chassis. The > reason the platter is that small is that you can't spin a 3.5 inch > sized platter at 15k rpm with acceptable motor power. We ship plenty of FC drives at work - the "lower capacity" here means (typically) 130GB instead of 250GB. They cost more too! > All this means that the modern way to large capacity is to combine > lots of (physically) small drives -- in other words, RAID. That also > gives you fault tolerance, and increased performance by putting more > heads to work. RAID is certainly the way to go. I'm sort of tempted to try it out on my home system sometime but there's always been something else to do first! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From hilpert at cs.ubc.ca Wed Jul 14 14:04:30 2004 From: hilpert at cs.ubc.ca (Brent Hilpert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Need help with monitor in Japan References: <20040714080537.66005.qmail@web61302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40F583BE.6C23707C@cs.ubc.ca> "Phab E. Oh" wrote: > I'm in Japan and having a problem with a US monitor. > It won't turn on...no power light or power up noises > or anything. > > So I measured voltage across neutral and ground and > there was 8VAC. So I got an electrician to wire up a > proper ground. There's still 1VAC across Neutral and > Ground. > > So I have two theories: > > 1) The monitor is seeing the floating ground and not > liking it and refusing to turn on. > 2) The monitor requires at least 110V (I'm getting > 103V). > > I'd hate to think this thing just died, so can anyone > confirm that a ground to neutral measurement should > yield 0V or some very negligible voltage? > If you are measuring between GND and neutral, a few volts measured is not surprising (especially with a DMM with a high input impedance), resulting from inductive/capacitive coupling between wires over the distance between your measurement point and where GND and neutral are bonded in the building (assuming that Japan does a straight GND/neutral bond as is done in North America). The 103V supply voltage is far more suspicious, as it is quite low relative to 115V (you don't say how old the monitor is, could it be that it predates power supplies with 'universal' supply voltage range?). Try finding a power adapter transformer to boost the voltage. (Normal Japanese line voltage is lower than North America isn't it?). Or if you are around electronics people, try to find a variac, as variacs typically have some boost on the upper end of their range (for example, a variac fed with 120V will typically boost to at least 130V, keeping in mind if the variac scale is presented in volts, the scale accuracy will vary with the input voltage). (Or, being very careful not to go to the low end, wire up the variac in reverse). Or (if the monitor is older) there's always looking inside the monitor for jumpers, or alternative primary taps on a power transformer, to select input voltages. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 14 14:16:49 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Update: Dynamic Sciences R-1250 Reciever info? In-Reply-To: <008801c46817$2cd660c0$0200a8c0@geoff> References: <3.0.6.32.20040710204653.00906c00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040714151649.0092ee30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I finally got the receiver out today and played with it. It seems to work well for the most part and the sensativity is great! We picked up WWV from Colorado at 15MHz with only a key stuck into the RF Signal In port. The only real problem that we found was that you can't select any BandWidth of 20KHz or below. This thing is FULL of filters and attenuators. I suspect one the relays or drivers in it is bad and isn't selecting the right filter below 20Mhz. BTW it has a wirewrap control card in it. I haven't pulled it out yet but it looks like it might be a Multibus card! Stan Barr found this and send it to me: >Wide Range Receiver Model R-1250 > >The Model R-1250 wide range receiver is tunable from 100Hz* to 1GHz using >external control, front panel keyboard or a single tuning knob. It has >continuous frequency coverage and automatic preselection filtering. >The unit has selectable IF bandwidths and AM/FM envelope detectors as >well as a built-in IEE-488 bus to allow interfacing to a computer for >automated sytem operation. It has an 8 digit LED display and the frequency >resolution ranges from 0.1Hz below 250Khz to 100Hz above 20Mhz. The R-1250 >requires a power supply of 115/230 volts ac, 50/60Hz single phase, measures >222 x 431 x 533mm and weighs 38Kg. It has a logged MTBF in the field of >greater than 2500 hours. > >Manufacturer: Dynamic Sciences, Chatsworth, California. > >* That's what it says - 100 Hertz... I also found that it's supposed to be sensitive enough to pick up a signal at only 10db above the Johnson noise level! AND I found that the intermediate-frequency (IF) filters have adjustable bandwidths ranging from 50 Hz to 200 MHz!!! Does anybody have any idea what the AM Pulse strencher control, AM Slideback control and Log/Lin control are supposed to do? Or what the Calibrate In posts are for or what the difference is betweeen the regular Signal In port and the Low Freq Signal In port is? I posted posted some pictures at . Joe From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Wed Jul 14 14:20:17 2004 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: OT: Software for Transtronics/Intronics EPROM programmer In-Reply-To: <001f01c469d3$2014b360$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <200407141512171.SM01348@bobdev> I'm looking for the windows software for the Transtronics/Intronics Pocket Programmer 2 EPROM Programmer. I've lost my installation disk and I had to reformat my system, so I need to re-install the software. Transtronics wonderful [sic] customer service declared that I must re-purchase the software for $49. This is insane - it's not like I might be trying to steal their software to use on another device... It's propriatery to the hardware. If someone has a disk image of the installation they could send me, that would be great, or if someone knows the password that's needed to unlock the downloadable version, that would be just as good. I paid enough money for this device, and it's something I use only maybe once or twice a year to burn a couple of EPROMs, so I really detest their customer service policy of having to pay $49 to get the software again. Thanks for any help... - Bob From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Jul 14 14:36:52 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Need help with monitor in Japan Message-ID: <200407141936.MAA09662@clulw009.amd.com> Hi A 12v filament transformer can be used to boost the voltage. Also, Japan is 50Hz so that may also be an issue. One could even use an AC wall wart as long as the output current was rated as high as that used by the monitor. You just need to experiment with the lead polarity to get the phase to boost. You'd need to put this all in a closed box for safety because the output wires of a wall wart are not usually rated for 115V. Dwight >From: "Brent Hilpert" > >"Phab E. Oh" wrote: >> I'm in Japan and having a problem with a US monitor. >> It won't turn on...no power light or power up noises >> or anything. >> >> So I measured voltage across neutral and ground and >> there was 8VAC. So I got an electrician to wire up a >> proper ground. There's still 1VAC across Neutral and >> Ground. >> >> So I have two theories: >> >> 1) The monitor is seeing the floating ground and not >> liking it and refusing to turn on. >> 2) The monitor requires at least 110V (I'm getting >> 103V). >> >> I'd hate to think this thing just died, so can anyone >> confirm that a ground to neutral measurement should >> yield 0V or some very negligible voltage? >> > >If you are measuring between GND and neutral, a few volts measured is not surprising (especially with a DMM with a high input impedance), resulting from inductive/capacitive coupling between wires over the distance between your measurement point and where GND and neutral are bonded in the building (assuming that Japan does a straight GND/neutral bond as is done in North America). > >The 103V supply voltage is far more suspicious, as it is quite low relative to 115V (you don't say how old the monitor is, could it be that it predates power supplies with 'universal' supply voltage range?). Try finding a power adapter transformer to boost the voltage. (Normal Japanese line voltage is lower than North America isn't it?). Or if you are around electronics people, try to find a variac, as variacs typically have some boost on the upper end of their range (for example, a variac fed with 120V will typically boost to at least 130V, keeping in mind if the variac scale is presented in volts, the scale accuracy will vary with the input voltage). (Or, being very careful not to go to the low end, wire up the variac in reverse). > >Or (if the monitor is older) there's always looking inside the monitor for jumpers, or alternative primary taps on a power transformer, to select input voltages. > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jul 14 14:53:09 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Modern Electronics (was Re: List charter mods & headcount... ; References: <40F4C3DD.4070601@jetnet.ab.ca> <40F4F67E.339BD412@brothom.nl> Message-ID: <40F58F25.2090201@jetnet.ab.ca> Bert Thomas wrote: > I aggree that tubes are making a come back, but I don't understand what > that has to do with the quality of speakers... > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that tube amplifiers sound > "different" than semiconductor amplifiers because certain harmonics are > supressed or distorted or something like that. But I don't understand > why people like that. With todays technology its simple and cheap to > build an amplifier with a bandwidth of 100KHz and a constant phase shift > over that range. Why would you listen to something less good then > "perfect" ? > > Or am I completely ignorant/stupid here? Truth in advertising here ( while listening to a tube amp here ) is that most sales are towards a amp with the most power out into a resisive dummy load. 1) Real speakers are inductive not a 200 watt 4 ohm resistor. 2) Lots of feedback is used to keep a transistor amp linear. 3) Sine waves in a lab is different from real music. 4) People buy amps to be loud for loud rock music. > Bert From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Wed Jul 14 15:15:37 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: trying to contact Bill at swtpc.com Message-ID: <40F59469.25A1DE51@msm.umr.edu> I recieved a query about a computer from you, probably related to this list, since your email id was VCM@swtpc.com. All attempts to reply to your email bounces due to your spam control. You may reach me at jws@world.std.com about the computer you had contacted me about on 4/29/2004. sorry for the delay, but the bounces were buried in spams titled as email bounces with phishing in them. Jim From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Jul 14 15:12:55 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Disk Capacity.... In-Reply-To: <001f01c469d3$2014b360$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: > > All this means that the modern way to large capacity is to combine > > lots of (physically) small drives -- in other words, RAID. That also > > gives you fault tolerance, and increased performance by putting more > > heads to work. > > RAID is certainly the way to go. I'm sort of tempted to > try it out on my home system sometime but there's always > been something else to do first! I can vouch for (and suggest ;-) the Infortrend boxes... they do EIDE drives on the inside (my units have 14 drives each) and do either LVD SCSI (U160) or FC on the outside. All the usual RAID gadgets are present in the box' firmware. --f From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Jul 14 15:26:10 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Disk Capacity.... References: <16629.12050.232983.9036@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <001f01c469d3$2014b360$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <16629.38626.59805.558195@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Antonio" == Antonio Carlini writes: >> Apparently, 15,000 rpm drives (high end fibre channel drives) have >> lower capacity than slower drives not just because the areal >> density is less, but also because the platter is smaller. You're >> getting what is effectively a 2.5 inch drive packaged into a 3.5 >> inch chassis. The reason the platter is that small is that you >> can't spin a 3.5 inch sized platter at 15k rpm with acceptable >> motor power. Antonio> We ship plenty of FC drives at work - the "lower capacity" Antonio> here means (typically) 130GB instead of 250GB. They cost Antonio> more too! Those are the 10,000 rpm ones. The 15,000 rpm ones are smaller still. paul From tomj at wps.com Wed Jul 14 15:34:07 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Disk Capacity.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1089837246.3774.29.camel@dhcp-251028> On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 16:40, David V. Corbin wrote: > I am well aware that there are significant reasons why this is a > "non-real-world" comparision [I worked at Veeco Instruments for a numver of > years developing IBE/IBD tools for the manufacturer of disk drive heads]. D'OH! Sorry. > It is just an "interesting" comparision. A wall of RP06's is less than 0.5% > the capacity of a single IDE/ATA hard drive. It is highly amusing I agree! The rotating memory in my LGP-21 is 80 bits/inch -- you can *see* 'em if you apply that magnetic dust fluid! I stopped following disk tech back when Partial Read/Maximum Likelihood (PMRL) was high tech, which was scary enough. It's getting Deeply Weird (and utterly normal to those who grow up with it). From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Wed Jul 14 16:00:09 2004 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Booting a VAXstation 4000 VLC off the hobbyist boot CD-ROM Message-ID: I have my VAXstation 4000 VLC running to the ">>>" prompt and would like to boot the hobbyist CD-ROM to install VMS on the hard drive but I'm having trouble getting the CD-ROM to boot. If I type 'boot dka400' at the prompt, the CD-ROM spins up and I get the text "-DKA400" displayed on the console but then I get the ">>>" prompt again. Can anyone tell me why that would happen? I'm using a NEC CDR-1910A SCSI CD-ROM drive set to SCSI ID 4. From KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com Wed Jul 14 16:35:48 2004 From: KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com (Van Mersbergen, Ken) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Booting a VAXstation 4000 VLC off the hobbyist boot CD-ROM Message-ID: David- It might be the drive itself, I'd try a 1X drive if you have one. -----Original Message----- From: David Betz [mailto:dbetz@xlisper.mv.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 4:00 PM To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Booting a VAXstation 4000 VLC off the hobbyist boot CD-ROM I have my VAXstation 4000 VLC running to the ">>>" prompt and would like to boot the hobbyist CD-ROM to install VMS on the hard drive but I'm having trouble getting the CD-ROM to boot. If I type 'boot dka400' at the prompt, the CD-ROM spins up and I get the text "-DKA400" displayed on the console but then I get the ">>>" prompt again. Can anyone tell me why that would happen? I'm using a NEC CDR-1910A SCSI CD-ROM drive set to SCSI ID 4. *************************************************************** This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. *************************************************************** From spc at conman.org Wed Jul 14 16:45:59 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Help with :CAT optical Reader In-Reply-To: <5d4367ce4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> from "Philip Pemberton" at Jul 14, 2004 03:24:44 PM Message-ID: <20040714214559.9F120109AD67@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Philip Pemberton once stated: > > In message <009b01c469a9$fe295e50$30406b43@66067007> > "Keys" wrote: > > > I guy told me that the :C optical reader was great for scanning books into > > your computer, so I got one out of the warehouse and loaded the software > > that came with it. > The CueCat (aka :C) is a barcode scanner, not a text scanner. You can scan > barcodes with it and it dumps the data (in an encoded format) into the > keyboard buffer. > > > Now the problem is I can not get to the company website > > to get the code to use the software? > DigitalConvergence went bankrupt a few years ago. The servers that :CRQ used > to look up barcodes are dead anyway. I write some C code (included below---it's quite short) to decode the Cuecat datastream (tested and works, at least under Linux). I got the thing (free from RatShack), played around with it for oh, a day or so (that's when I wrote the software) and then never did anything with the thing afterwards. -spc (oh wait ... hold old is the cuecat now?) #include #include #include #include #include /*******************************************************************/ char *cuecat_convert(char *dest,size_t size,const char *src) { int t[4]; unsigned long value; char *sdest; int i; char *p; static const char *const convtable = "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz" "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ" "0123456789+-"; /*"0123456789,/";*/ assert(dest != NULL); assert(size > 0); assert(src != NULL); sdest = dest; while((size > 3) && (*src != '.') && (*src != '\0')) /* oops */ { memset(t,0,sizeof(t)); for (i = 0 ; (*src != '.') && (i < 4) ; i++ , src++) { p = strchr(convtable,*src); if (p == NULL) break; t[i] = p - convtable; assert(t[i] >= 0); assert(t[i] <= 63); } value = (t[0] << 18) | (t[1] << 12) | (t[2] << 6) | (t[3]); value ^= 0x00434343ul; dest[0] = (value >> 16) & 0x000000FFul; dest[1] = (value >> 8) & 0x000000FFul; dest[2] = (value) & 0x000000FFul; dest[3] = '\0'; dest += 3; size -= 3; } *dest = '\0'; return(sdest); } /***************************************************************/ char *cleanup(char *src) { char *ssrc = src; assert(src != NULL); for ( ; *src ; src++) { if ((*src < 32) || (*src > 126)) *src = '.'; } return(ssrc); } /***************************************************************/ int main(int argc,char *argv[]) { char *id; char *type; char *code; char buffer[BUFSIZ]; char cid [BUFSIZ]; char ctype [BUFSIZ]; char ccode [BUFSIZ]; while(fgets(buffer,BUFSIZ,stdin)) { id = strchr(buffer,'.'); if (id == NULL) continue; else id++; type = strchr(id, '.'); if (type == NULL) continue; else type++; code = strchr(type, '.'); if (code == NULL) continue; else code++; cleanup(cuecat_convert(cid,BUFSIZ,id)); cleanup(cuecat_convert(ctype,BUFSIZ,type)); cleanup(cuecat_convert(ccode,BUFSIZ,code)); printf("ID: %s TYPE: %s CODE: %s\n",cid,ctype,ccode); } return(0); } /*******************************************************************/ From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Wed Jul 14 16:56:28 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: OT dsl References: <40F540CE.9010007@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <002c01c469ed$8c3a1980$0200a8c0@geoff> http://metronet.co.uk/adsl/paygo Above is the new Metronet price structure - no frills. Bulldog does seem very cheap - read the small print ? Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Williams" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 3:18 PM Subject: OT dsl > I have been looking at bulldogdsl they have a 4 meg line with 400k up > for 30 pounds a month. Has anyone hear used this or know anyone that > does. I was wondering about reliability this is less then I pay ntl for > a 1mb line. They also have 8 fixed ip's for an extra 9 a month. It seems > too cheap to me. > > Thanks > Dan From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Wed Jul 14 17:02:11 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Update: Dynamic Sciences R-1250 Reciever info? References: <3.0.6.32.20040710204653.00906c00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040714151649.0092ee30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <003e01c469ee$41114400$0200a8c0@geoff> Yes , 100 Hz capabality for vlf signalling - submarine comms and the like..... Er , drool ........ Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Cc: ; ; Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 8:16 PM Subject: Update: Dynamic Sciences R-1250 Reciever info? > I finally got the receiver out today and played with it. It seems to > work well for the most part and the sensativity is great! We picked up WWV > from Colorado at 15MHz with only a key stuck into the RF Signal In port. > The only real problem that we found was that you can't select any BandWidth > of 20KHz or below. This thing is FULL of filters and attenuators. I suspect > one the relays or drivers in it is bad and isn't selecting the right filter > below 20Mhz. BTW it has a wirewrap control card in it. I haven't pulled it > out yet but it looks like it might be a Multibus card! > > Stan Barr found this and send it to me: > > >Wide Range Receiver Model R-1250 > > > >The Model R-1250 wide range receiver is tunable from 100Hz* to 1GHz using > >external control, front panel keyboard or a single tuning knob. It has > >continuous frequency coverage and automatic preselection filtering. > >The unit has selectable IF bandwidths and AM/FM envelope detectors as > >well as a built-in IEE-488 bus to allow interfacing to a computer for > >automated sytem operation. It has an 8 digit LED display and the frequency > >resolution ranges from 0.1Hz below 250Khz to 100Hz above 20Mhz. The R-1250 > >requires a power supply of 115/230 volts ac, 50/60Hz single phase, measures > >222 x 431 x 533mm and weighs 38Kg. It has a logged MTBF in the field of > >greater than 2500 hours. > > > >Manufacturer: Dynamic Sciences, Chatsworth, California. > > > >* That's what it says - 100 Hertz... > > > I also found that it's supposed to be sensitive enough to pick up a > signal at only 10db above the Johnson noise level! AND I found that the > intermediate-frequency (IF) filters have adjustable bandwidths ranging from > 50 Hz to 200 MHz!!! > > Does anybody have any idea what the AM Pulse strencher control, AM > Slideback control and Log/Lin control are supposed to do? Or what the > Calibrate In posts are for or what the difference is betweeen the regular > Signal In port and the Low Freq Signal In port is? > > > I posted posted some pictures at . > > Joe From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Wed Jul 14 17:29:14 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Booting a VAXstation 4000 VLC off the hobbyist boot CD-ROM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301c469f1$fe796560$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > I have my VAXstation 4000 VLC running to the ">>>" prompt and would > like to boot the hobbyist CD-ROM to install VMS on the hard drive but > I'm having trouble getting the CD-ROM to boot. If I type > 'boot dka400' > at the prompt, the CD-ROM spins up and I get the text "-DKA400" > displayed on the console but then I get the ">>>" prompt again. Can > anyone tell me why that would happen? I'm using a NEC CDR-1910A SCSI > CD-ROM drive set to SCSI ID 4. I'm assuming that you are using a VAX VMS CD and not an Alpha one :-) (And that it's the OS one and not one of the layered products ones ...) Some of the later CDs (V6.1 onwards or so) allow you to boot to OpenVMS rather than SA BACKUP: So something like: B/R5:10000000 DKA400: may work. If you have another working VMS box you can verify that the CD you have does indeed have a [SYS1] root. "B DKA400:" should have booted SA BACKUP, so if it didn't are you sure that: - you used the right CD (what part number and OS version is it)? - that your CD actually is DKA400: (SHOW DEVICE should help here) - that your CD supports 512-byte blocks and is configured to do so (what CD is it)? Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jul 14 17:42:42 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Archive 5945C tape drive - Emulex or Adaptec interface board? In-Reply-To: <1089809332.15252.33.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <20040713214710.E7BF43D5F@spies.com> <1089809332.15252.33.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1089844962.15730.11.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 12:48, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 21:47, Al Kossow wrote: > > > > Emulex MW0210402's > > > > -- > > > > Should be MT02 > > A google for Emulex MW0210402 turns up: > > http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/Systems/Sun4/RMVBL_Emulex_MT02.html > > ...which *suggests* that it's an MT02 board, just with a potentially > different ROM and (better?) support for both Archive and Wangtek drives. > I'm assuming from that page that they're interchangable as far as > driving an Archive tape drive. Certainly the board layout looks the > same. I'll give it a try... Darn, seems like it doesn't get along well with Adaptec SCSI controllers :-( Without multiple LUN support enabled, I get a timeout for the Inquiry command on booting from the Adaptec BIOS, and the Linux AIC7xxx driver gets horribly confused trying to talk to the board. With multiple LUN support enabled, the Adaptec BIOS finds the board and rather than timing out reports an 'unknown device' - it then seems to hide the board from the system, as Linux doesn't even acknowledge that there's anything at that particular ID. Grumble! Unfortunately the only SCSI boards I have for PCs are Adaptecs, so looks like I'm out of luck. It's possible the Emulex board is broken I suppose, but according to the doc for it on bitsavers it should do quite a lot of diags on the SCSI controller at power-up, so given the flashing green light it gives me, it should be ok. The documentation suggests it is proper SCSI though, supporting everything I'd expect, so I'm pretty surprised that it doesn't work. Funnily enough, the Omti series SCSI/ST506 bridge boards also result in timeout errors during Inquiry against an Adaptec board. I'll have to see if they use the same SCSI chip as the Emulex - maybe there's something Adaptec cards don't like about that specific chip... Anyone on this side of the pond got a non-Adaptec PC SCSI controller that they don't want? :-) cheers, Jules From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 14 17:38:45 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor In-Reply-To: <000001c46977$a4d90fd0$0402a8c0@D1> from "d-gordon@sbcglobal.net" at Jul 14, 4 00:53:25 am Message-ID: > > Hello: > I need some advise, if someone can please help me out regarding > identifying what this monitor is for. I have been given an older 20' > Mitsubishi monitor with two 15 pin connectors on the back (signal A, Signal > B) along with 5 of the round connectors with the two pins on each. Each Are you sure it's 2 pins? These sound like BNC [1] connectors which have one central pin and the shield. Some sockets have a forked contact for the centre connection which may look like 2 pins, though. [1] Bonus points for people who know what BNC stands for.... > round silver connector is labled R, G, B, Comp HD, and VD, respectively, > obviously some sort of color connectors for RGB color, I think. It has no Yes. HD and VD are 'Horizontal Drive' and 'Vertical Drive' respectively, what most people call 'sync'. Comp refers to composite sync (and I would not think composite video here), for machines that have a combined, composite, sync output. > video cables for the 15 pin connectors, so it looks like I need a male-male > cable to attach it to a PC. I am not sure what type of system it is If these are DE15 connectors, I would assume PC VGA. But watch out. At least one of my monitors -- and I think it was a Mitsubishi -- has an DE15 input connector that's _not_ wired as a normal VGA connector. It came with a specail cross-wired cable that has to be used the right way round, and the only visible difference between the ends is that one end has black insulation between the pins, the other end has white. The moulded plug covers are the normal grey at each end (as is the cable). This caused me a lot of head-scratching and staring at a 'scope... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 14 17:42:56 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Need help with monitor in Japan In-Reply-To: <20040714080537.66005.qmail@web61302.mail.yahoo.com> from "Phab E. Oh" at Jul 14, 4 01:05:37 am Message-ID: > > Hi All. > > I'm in Japan and having a problem with a US monitor. > It won't turn on...no power light or power up noises > or anything. > > So I measured voltage across neutral and ground and > there was 8VAC. So I got an electrician to wire up a > proper ground. There's still 1VAC across Neutral and > Ground. This should not be a problem. No device should ever assume that either side of the mains is close to earth potential (because in some cases it won't be). US wiring is uncovnentioal in that the neutral and earth are connected at the house's fuse/breaker box, this is not the case in other countries. > > So I have two theories: > > 1) The monitor is seeing the floating ground and not > liking it and refusing to turn on. I can see no reason why it would object! > 2) The monitor requires at least 110V (I'm getting > 103V). Possibly, but fairly unlikely. A PSU should be able to take +/-10% from the nominal mains input. Which would mean it should take 115-11.5V (103.5V). You'd be very unlucky for it to object to 103V. > > I'd hate to think this thing just died, so can anyone I assume you've checked the fuses (including the internal one in the PSU area). Have you done any other internal tests? My guess is that the startup resistor has gone open. It happens. Look for a resistor (maybe 2 in series) of a few hundred k from the +ve side of the maisn smoothing cap to some point in the choper circuit. -tony From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed Jul 14 18:09:31 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>> [1] Bonus points for people who know what BNC stands for.... Bayonet Neil-Concelman or British Naval Connector! Although I have never been sure why the English would want to connect their belly-buttons.... From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 14 17:47:16 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Modern Electronics (was Re: List charter mods & headcount... ; In-Reply-To: <4fd64bce4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> from "Philip Pemberton" at Jul 14, 4 10:25:10 am Message-ID: > > (hence the broken screen...) has x^y and x ROOT y, > > 10^x and log, e^x and ln, trig functions and their > > inverses and the hyperbolic version, and standard > > deviation. > My Casio has most of those, except x ROOT y. The Sharp does everything you Some of my HPs have all of those, _and_ (x ROOT y) and 1/x y^x (it's an RPN machine...) do not always give the same answer. No, not a bug, the former gives the real root if possible, the latter gives the principle value (which may well be a complex number). I find I can't use anything but an RPN calculator now. It's just so much simpler once you've learnt it. That's why I have a few dozen HPs (LED and LCD models). -tony From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jul 14 18:07:04 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1089846424.15730.14.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-07-14 at 22:38, Tony Duell wrote: > [1] Bonus points for people who know what BNC stands for.... I always thought it was bayonet connector, but I really don't know who told me that and it was quite a few years ago! > This caused me a lot of head-scratching and staring at a 'scope... Much better than 'scope-scratching and trying to stare at your head, of course! :-) cheers Jules From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Jul 14 18:12:31 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor Message-ID: <200407142312.QAA09893@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "David V. Corbin" > >>>> [1] Bonus points for people who know what BNC stands for.... > >Bayonet Neil-Concelman or British Naval Connector! > >Although I have never been sure why the English would want to connect their >belly-buttons.... > > bayonet something connector Dwight From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Jul 14 18:28:13 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: CDC 9762 vs. RM02/03? In-Reply-To: <46543.192.18.200.10.1089790734.squirrel@192.18.200.10> References: <000101c467ae$6a4650a0$707ba8c0@xpdesk> <40F3AC25.7080303@hp.com> <46543.192.18.200.10.1089790734.squirrel@192.18.200.10> Message-ID: <20040714232813.GA20290@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Jul 14, 2004 at 09:38:54AM +0200, Ed wrote: > I have some conflicting info here. On one hand the literature says that > DEC rebadged the CDC9762 as RM02 and RM03s... > > OTOH, the CDC has a SMD interface yet the RM02/03 has a MASSBUS interface. > > Furthermore, the CDC is listed to be at 80MB, yet the RM02/03 apparently > has 67MB only. > > So, which is true? I'm confused. Both... as shipped, the CDC 9762 is 80MB formatted; as shipped, the DEC RM02/RM03 is 67MB from the same mechanism. The bottom of the DEC RM02/RM03 is filled with DEC electronics that had a MASSBUS interface on one end, and a 62-pin/26-pin interface that is *almost* SMD. In reality, DEC made a couple of changes to the CDC cards in the card cage in the back of the drive, so it's not trivial to take an RM02 and make it back into a 9762 unless you happen to have a set of original CDC cards. There's something about the logical layout of the RM02/RM03 that either ignores some part of the drive capacity, or else it's using 13MB as spare tracks. And it's not just on a real RM02/RM03; at SRC, we had a 160MB Fuji SMD drive on our SI9900 controller as a system drive for our VAX-11/750. It appeared to the VAX as a pair of RM03s, down to the 67MB available capacity (i.e., the driver wasn't patched to try to make the 160MB drive _look_ like a single 160MB drive, unlike our Fuji Eagle, that _was_ a patched RM05 to the system). -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 14-Jul-2004 13:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -75 F (-59.5 C) Windchill -113.8 F (-81 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 11.7 kts Grid 034 Barometer 667.9 mb (11086. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed Jul 14 18:36:04 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor In-Reply-To: <200407142312.QAA09893@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: For those interested... http://www.rrcom.com/oldtipsoftheweek/tip16.html >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dwight K. Elvey >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 7:13 PM >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: RE: Mitsubishi Monitor >>> >>> >From: "David V. Corbin" >>> > >>> >>>> [1] Bonus points for people who know what BNC stands for.... >>> > >>> >Bayonet Neil-Concelman or British Naval Connector! >>> > >>> >Although I have never been sure why the English would want >>> to connect >>> >their belly-buttons.... >>> > >>> > >>> >>> bayonet something connector >>> >>> Dwight >>> >>> From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 14 19:20:12 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor In-Reply-To: from "David V. Corbin" at Jul 14, 4 07:09:31 pm Message-ID: > > >>> [1] Bonus points for people who know what BNC stands for.... > > Bayonet Neil-Concelman or British Naval Connector! The former. TNC is Threaded Neil-Concelman, and is a similar connector with a screw locking ring. The N connector (as in Thickwire ethernet) is, of course the Neil connecotr (and actually, an N plug will push into a BNC socket). There is even a C (Conecelman) connector, which looks like an oversized BNC. -tony From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed Jul 14 19:43:01 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: While the former is technically correct [see my previous reference], I will content that enough "official" sources also list the second as a definition to make it also a correct answer. Lets not repeat the discussion on the definition of "hacker".... >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 8:20 PM >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: Re: Mitsubishi Monitor >>> >>> > >>> > >>> [1] Bonus points for people who know what BNC stands for.... >>> > >>> > Bayonet Neil-Concelman or British Naval Connector! >>> >>> The former. TNC is Threaded Neil-Concelman, and is a >>> similar connector with a screw locking ring. The N >>> connector (as in Thickwire ethernet) is, of course the Neil >>> connecotr (and actually, an N plug will push into a BNC >>> socket). There is even a C (Conecelman) connector, which >>> looks like an oversized BNC. >>> >>> -tony >>> From d-gordon at sbcglobal.net Wed Jul 14 20:51:41 2004 From: d-gordon at sbcglobal.net (d-gordon@sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000801c46a0e$48f35710$0402a8c0@D1> >>>> Are you sure it's 2 pins? These sound like BNC [1] connectors which have one central pin and the shield. Some sockets have a forked contact for the centre connection which may look like 2 pins, though. Yes, It does have two pins. Maybe we are talking about different pins. I am talking about the silver protrusions that extend radially on the outside of the round BNC connector, that hold the twist-on female connector. But in the center of the connector there is something that looks like a small slot for a wire to insert into, maybe like a coaxial cable for a TV fits in. >>>> If these are DE15 connectors, I would assume PC VGA. But watch out. At least one of my monitors -- and I think it was a Mitsubishi -- has an DE15 input connector that's _not_ wired as a normal VGA connector. It came with a specail cross-wired cable that has to be used the right way round, and the only visible difference between the ends is that one end has black insulation between the pins, the other end has white. Both of the 15 pin connectors on the back of my monitor are black, so maybe I won't have that problem. There is one 15 pin connector that is grouped by itself, while the other 15 pin connector is grouped with the 5 BNC connectors. Additionally, on the back of the Mitsubishi monito there is a small green bank of 10 DIP switches, with instructions under them on what the settings (up or down, mean). Any other suggestions are appreciated to help me to avoid hokking up something wrong. Also, are those male-male cables readily available at computer stores? I don't recall ever seeing one on their cable board, for example at Fry's Electronics, a very large chain of computer stores here in California. From pbmain at wideopenwest.com Wed Jul 14 21:21:56 2004 From: pbmain at wideopenwest.com (Pete Bartusek) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Pet Computer Software? In-Reply-To: <200407141700.i6EH08be010231@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <200407150221.i6F2LmO6000628@pop-9.dnv.wideopenwest.com> Does anyone out there have any sources for Pet computer software? Preferably tape, but I could probably track down a disk player as well. Better yet, has anyone designed a 'tape emulator' or anything like that? From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed Jul 14 21:53:50 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Pet Computer Software? In-Reply-To: <200407150221.i6F2LmO6000628@pop-9.dnv.wideopenwest.com> Message-ID: You might want to try ricm.org.... >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Pete Bartusek >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 10:22 PM >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: Pet Computer Software? >>> >>> Does anyone out there have any sources for Pet computer >>> software? Preferably tape, but I could probably track down >>> a disk player as well. Better yet, has anyone designed a >>> 'tape emulator' or anything like that? >>> From blair at averagebacon.com Wed Jul 14 21:54:34 2004 From: blair at averagebacon.com (Blair Miller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Compaq Luggable Message-ID: <40F5F1EA.4070505@averagebacon.com> Hey all, Before I say anything else, I've posted here before and even passed along a couple of classic computers to members of the list, so please, bear with me. I've got a Compaq luggable here that's just taking up space. I've included links at the end of this message showing pictures of the system itself, since I've no real information as to what sorts of internals it has, or even what the various expansion cards are for (save one, which is obviously parallel, and is labeled "printer"). My father used it a long time ago when he was the regional service manager for a major food and beverage equipment supplier. The system does work. One of the two floppy drives -- no hard disk on this thing -- seems to go on the fritz every once in a while, but otherwise, everything else works, AFAIK. NOTE: This declaration of fitness doesn't include the expansion cards, as I've no way to test them. Anyway, I know better than to ask "what's this thing worth," so instead I'll ask "is this thing worth anything to anyone here?" I'm from south-western Michigan, but I make semi-regular jaunts all over the state, and make the occasional trip to Chicago as well. If someone here wants the system, make me what you feel is a fair offer. If you want me to drop it off, I'll charge you for gas money in addition to whatever your fair offer is. Otherwise, you can pick it up. I'd rather not ship it, as it's large, heavy, and might not make it through the shipping process. NOTE: This system is, compared to the comparable models I've seen on eBay, in great shape. It includes the original brown Compaq labeled base, which is clean and tear/rip free. The computer itself if fairly clean, no dust accumulation outside (inside might be a different story). Anyway, on with the pictures: http://www.averagebacon.com/ebay/compaq_running.jpg http://www.averagebacon.com/ebay/compaq_screen.jpg http://www.averagebacon.com/ebay/compaq_software.jpg http://www.averagebacon.com/ebay/compaq_ports.jpg http://www.averagebacon.com/ebay/compaq_case.jpg If no one wants it, it'll probably just go to eBay. If multiple people want it, I'll take a look at the offers, and if they're all the roughly the same, put it up for private auction (and inform the list). If the offers are wildly different, I'll just take the highest one. That should keep everything and everyone (including me) nice and fair. Thanks for listening, and please feel free to drop me a line -- compaq@averagebacon.com -- if you have any questions or want another photo or whatnot. Sincerely, Blair Miller From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Jul 14 22:17:20 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Pet Computer Software? In-Reply-To: <200407150221.i6F2LmO6000628@pop-9.dnv.wideopenwest.com> References: <200407141700.i6EH08be010231@huey.classiccmp.org> <200407150221.i6F2LmO6000628@pop-9.dnv.wideopenwest.com> Message-ID: <20040715031720.GA25531@mapo1.spole.gov> On Wed, Jul 14, 2004 at 10:21:56PM -0400, Pete Bartusek wrote: > Does anyone out there have any sources for Pet computer software? Preferably > tape, but I could probably track down a disk player as well. Better yet, > has anyone designed a 'tape emulator' or anything like that? All of my PET tapes are at home, and in any case, I've converted most of them to '.t64' files (tape container files) for use with VICE, a c64/PET/VIC/etc. emulator. I have not used them, but I believe there are programs to convert these tape files into .wav files that can then be recorded onto a real tape. When looking for PET software, it will be helpful to know what models you are interested in. Some programs work with all the available revisions of the kernel ROMs (frequently referred to as "BASIC 1.0", "BASIC 2.0" and "BASIC 4.0"), but many, many programs only work on one flavor of machine, or screen size (40 col vs 80 col), etc. As an example, most of the stuff I'm interested in is for BASIC 4.0 80-column (8032) or BASIC 2.0 40-column (2001-N also known as the 3032 in Europe). If you are trying to get stuff for an old 4K or 8K static-RAM PET, there's not a lot out there just for it (they are BASIC 1.0 machines unless they are one of the rare ones that was upgraded to BASIC 2.0). There's plenty of stuff on Funet (http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/). Go have a browse. The trick will be, of course, getting the programs from there onto a tape. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 15-Jul-2004 03:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -75.4 F (-59.7 C) Windchill -117.4 F (-83 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 14.2 kts Grid 043 Barometer 669.6 mb (11022. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From eric at redrouteone.net Wed Jul 14 23:04:13 2004 From: eric at redrouteone.net (Eric Moody) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: simh and rt11 primer. Message-ID: <9E9931B61C3E74468AD7682A0C699376053F93@redoctober.redrouteone.local> Hello, I have wanted a PDP11 for years but currently do not have the space for one so I have decided to do the next best thing use simh. I have downloaded simh and the rt11 disk image but I am kind of stuck on where to go. Does anyone know of any sites or documents available online that cover configuration of simh and the installation and use of rt11. I have done some messing around and have managed to boot the rt11 image by using the commands at rl0 rtv53_rl.dsk at rl1 eric_pdp11_rt11.dsk <- This is a file that I intend to do my install to. Is that wrong? Boot rl1. I choose the automatic option but then it wants me to mount a disk in dl1 so that it can backup the media. I try to attach dl1 but I get an error non existent device. If try to create the disk during the install the install just errors out and dies. Any help with this will be most appreciated. Eric From bear at typewritten.org Wed Jul 14 23:21:31 2004 From: bear at typewritten.org (r.stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: wtb: Ungermann-Bass NICps MCA Ethernet Message-ID: <72DDC83B-D616-11D8-BCC4-000A956C4CA0@typewritten.org> Howdy y'all. I'm trying to dig up one or more ancient microchannel ethernet cards. Due to software limitations, it MUST be the Ungermann-Bass NICps. This will be a 16-bit full length microchannel card, with a single AUI jack (DA15F). It will NOT have an i80186 CPU on it; if it has an i80186, it's the newer Net-ONE NIUps, and won't work. I've got a pile of these cards already. Hopefully somebody out there will have one or two of these stashed away somewhere. Thanks! ok bear From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 15 00:05:49 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor In-Reply-To: <000801c46a0e$48f35710$0402a8c0@D1> from "d-gordon@sbcglobal.net" at Jul 14, 4 06:51:41 pm Message-ID: > > >>>> Are you sure it's 2 pins? These sound like BNC [1] > connectors which have > one central pin and the shield. Some sockets have a forked contact for > the centre connection which may look like 2 pins, though. > > Yes, It does have two pins. Maybe we are talking about > different pins. I am talking about the silver protrusions that extend > radially on the outside of the round BNC connector, that hold the twist-on > female connector. But in the center of the connector there is something We are talking about differnent things. The 'pin' to me is the electrical connetcion in the middle. This is certainly a BNC connector. > that looks like a small slot for a wire to insert into, maybe like a coaxial > cable for a TV fits in. The TV connector IIRC is the F connector (and I have no idea what it stands for). The BNC plug has a separate pin that's soldered (or crimped) to the inner wire of the coaxial cable, it doesn't use the inner wire iteslf for this. But anyway, the idea is similar. > Both of the 15 pin connectors on the back of my monitor are > black, so maybe I won't have that problem. There is one 15 pin connector > that is grouped by itself, while the other 15 pin connector is grouped with > the 5 BNC connectors. Additionally, on the back of the Mitsubishi monito It sounds like this monitor has 2 inputs. One is on the first DE15. The second is either on the other DE15 or on the BNCs. > there is a small green bank of 10 DIP switches, with instructions under them > on what the settings (up or down, mean). Any other suggestions are I've been called a lot of things on this list, but never a mind reader :-). What do the DIP switches say they do... That might be a big clue as to whet the monitor was to work with. > appreciated to help me to avoid hokking up something wrong. Also, are those > male-male cables readily available at computer stores? I don't recall ever I believe I've seen them in the UK, but I can't be sure. I normally make my own cables, so I don't look at commercially-made ones. -tony From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Thu Jul 15 02:58:57 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:17 2005 Subject: OT dsl In-Reply-To: <1089817628.15252.61.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <40F540CE.9010007@ntlworld.com> <1089817628.15252.61.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.0.20040715085108.0626f8c8@pop.freeserve.net> At 16:07 14/07/2004, Jules Richardson wrote: >Do you need to be subscribed to BT for their phone line in order to make >use of a DSL company which uses the BT infrastructure? It used to be the >case (reason the only choice I had was to go with NTL) but I'm not sure >if it still is. Yes, because DSL comes down the copper phone line, and the only people putting in copper are BT.. Most of the ISPs just rent a combination of standard services off BT, and re-sell it on to you at various prices. BT won't provide DSL on a line that doesn't have active phone service. Even though it's technically possible, I guess this is to simplify their procedures. Bulldog does work differently in that they are a LLU (Local Loop Unbundling) operator, which means they put their own equipment into the BT telephone exchanges, so can offer a different range of services (and this explains their much lower coverage too). They are still tied to BT, though, as far as that last piece of wire between the exchange and YOU is concerned. Have a look at www.adslguide.org.uk for informative comparisons and ratings. Don't forget the forums ("message board") as they have a lot of discussion about the various ISPs and thus you can see what the actual users feel about certain services. (few messages generally == no problems!) Rob From d-gordon at sbcglobal.net Thu Jul 15 03:57:31 2004 From: d-gordon at sbcglobal.net (d-gordon@sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001301c46a49$c3462ed0$0402a8c0@D1> >>>> there is a small green bank of 10 DIP switches, with instructions under them > on what the settings (up or down, mean). Any other suggestions are >>>> I've been called a lot of things on this list, but never a mind reader :-). What do the DIP switches say they do... That might be a big clue as to whet the monitor was to work with. I double checked the DIP switch bank and it has only 8 DIP switches. The DIP switche instructions are grouped into 3 sections, the first with 4 switches, saying Text Color w/ Green Amber and Red, for the first group. The second group says Text/Color and has only 2 switches. The third group has the last 4 DIP switches and says "TTL Color" and each switch says something different. The first says the number 8, the second "16 SAT." and "16 PAS", the third "32". To me it doesn't make sense. For some strange reason, there are more pictures of dip switches than actual DIP switches. It also says switch 6 - 8 , must stay set to off. From m.wickens at rhodium-consulting.com Thu Jul 15 03:59:17 2004 From: m.wickens at rhodium-consulting.com (Mark Wickens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: RZ25-E in a VAXstation 4000 vlc? In-Reply-To: <002101c469d4$078fbbe0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <000001c46a4a$02df4f90$7104a8c0@max> Hi, I bought a Fujitsu 9.1GB drive which doesn't work with OpenVMS 7.3 on a VAXstation 4000/90 - I think it is because the firmware is not able to determine the capacity correctly. I will soon be installing OpenBSD on it and don't expect problems with that OS. I have had success with an RZ28L which is 2.1GB, not had a chance to try the 4.3GB variety of RZ drive. If you want to get a replacement drive that will fit in the case, look out for an -L variant - these are the 'low profile' version of drives. Happy vaxing Mark. Mark Wickens Rhodium Consulting Ltd -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Antonio Carlini Sent: 14 July 2004 19:55 To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: RE: RZ25-E in a VAXstation 4000 vlc? > I have a VAXstation 4000 vlc without an internal hard disk > and a spare > RZ25-E drive. I had thought I could install the drive in the > vlc but it > seems from inspection that the vlc needs a lower profile drive. Yes it does. I think mine came with an RZ23L in it. I swapped in a Fujitsu 1GB SCSI drive that I had lying around. > What > drives are compatible with the vlc? If it won't work as an internal > drive, I guess I can install the RZ25-E in an external SCSI > enclosure. > Should that work with the vlc? IIRC there's a SCSI connector on the rear so you should be able to hook up an external enclosure and check that the console sees the new drive(s). I'd be surprised if *any* DEC RZ drive failed to work. I'd expect the success with non-DEC drives to be entirely OS-dependant (assuming you sort out the usual issues with active termination and so on). OpenVMS V6.1 (or so) onwards is pretty tolerant of SCSi drives ... I don't know about the BSD family and Linux-VAX is not (yet) ready to play with disks (AFAIK). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From cheri-post at web.de Thu Jul 15 03:59:20 2004 From: cheri-post at web.de (Pierre Gebhardt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Very important: Restoration of an Onyx Systems C8002 Message-ID: <426650836@web.de> > Moreover,serveral tapes are corroded. > > -- > > There were many different recording formats used with DC300 style > tape cartridges before the QIC standards were established. Onyx > tapes predate those standards. Assuming the tape itself isn't > damaged, you can put the reels into new shells. You will need to > use a DEI drive to read them. The shells are ok, the tapes themselves are corroded. I'm not very optimistic about these, but we'll see. > > As I keep telling people, DON'T EXPERIMENT WITH TAPES YOU CARE > ABOUT WITH DRIVES IN UNKNOWN CONDITION! Until now, I haven't tried to read the tapes :-) > > It sounds like the capstan was bad in the unit, try some other > cart you don't care about before risking these tapes (which are > quite rare) in that drive. That's the reason I bought new ones to test the drive, in case the Onyx works. > > It would be a good thing to take high resolution pics of the boards > and to dump any programmable parts. I can take pictures next week and put them online. But why should I dump the programmable parts ? Pierre _______________________________________________________ WEB.DE Video-Mail - Sagen Sie mehr mit bewegten Bildern Informationen unter: http://freemail.web.de/?mc=021199 From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Jul 15 04:04:26 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52c6cdce4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > [1] Bonus points for people who know what BNC stands for.... "British Naval Connector" or "Bayonet Neill-Concelman" depending on who you believe :) Amphenol RF insist it's "Bayonet Neill-Concelman", named after one of their engineers, who developed it in the late 1940s. if you're interested. I'm still trying to find a way to make a hole in a plastic panel to mount a BNC properly. I failed miserably on the frequency counter I made - the BNC connector spins while you're trying to plug a probe in. Oops. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... DANGER! DANGER! Computer Store Ahead, Hide Wallet. From m.wickens at rhodium-consulting.com Thu Jul 15 04:06:05 2004 From: m.wickens at rhodium-consulting.com (Mark Wickens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Booting a VAXstation 4000 VLC off the hobbyist boot CD-ROM In-Reply-To: <000301c469f1$fe796560$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <000101c46a4a$f5c9e530$7104a8c0@max> David, The joys of SCSI CDROMs and VAXes ;) Are you sure you really want to know :-o I had the same thing with a VAXstation 4000/90 recently. The problem is that in order to boot off a CDROM the VAX requires that the drive be set in 512 bytes/sector mode. This will be configured by a jumper on the drive itself. You may well find that the drive does not support this mode, as most PC-compatible drives use 2K bytes/sector. Also, not all SCSI cdrom drives are made equal - I have a Pioneer drive which supports 512 bytes/sector but still doesn't boot correctly. In the case where it doesn't work I would suggest rather than messing around trying drives you get yourself a Plextor UltraPlex 40x drive (they can be picked up off ebay, I would say that a 32x drive would also work but don't quote me on this) - this is the only type of drive that has worked for me. Persevere though - it is worth it - I recently got to the stage where I'm into DECwindows and it is scary seeing it after nearly 12 years since I saw it last. Mark. Mark Wickens Rhodium Consulting Ltd -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Antonio Carlini Sent: 14 July 2004 23:29 To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: RE: Booting a VAXstation 4000 VLC off the hobbyist boot CD-ROM > I have my VAXstation 4000 VLC running to the ">>>" prompt and would > like to boot the hobbyist CD-ROM to install VMS on the hard drive but > I'm having trouble getting the CD-ROM to boot. If I type > 'boot dka400' > at the prompt, the CD-ROM spins up and I get the text "-DKA400" > displayed on the console but then I get the ">>>" prompt again. Can > anyone tell me why that would happen? I'm using a NEC CDR-1910A SCSI > CD-ROM drive set to SCSI ID 4. I'm assuming that you are using a VAX VMS CD and not an Alpha one :-) (And that it's the OS one and not one of the layered products ones ...) Some of the later CDs (V6.1 onwards or so) allow you to boot to OpenVMS rather than SA BACKUP: So something like: B/R5:10000000 DKA400: may work. If you have another working VMS box you can verify that the CD you have does indeed have a [SYS1] root. "B DKA400:" should have booted SA BACKUP, so if it didn't are you sure that: - you used the right CD (what part number and OS version is it)? - that your CD actually is DKA400: (SHOW DEVICE should help here) - that your CD supports 512-byte blocks and is configured to do so (what CD is it)? Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From m.wickens at rhodium-consulting.com Thu Jul 15 04:09:22 2004 From: m.wickens at rhodium-consulting.com (Mark Wickens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Modern Electronics (was Re: List charter mods & headcount... ; In-Reply-To: <40F58F25.2090201@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <000201c46a4b$6b3f52a0$7104a8c0@max> You are making the mistake in thinking that because an op-amp provides linear amplification across a wide range of frequencies it produces the 'nicest' sound. The human ear is not a linear receiver ;) It is simply down to what you like - and valves colour the sound in a way that sounds 'nice' to most people. Have you ever heard music out of a whirlitzer - hopelessly coloured but somehow good. Feel free to disagree - I've been known to be wrong! Mark. Mark Wickens Rhodium Consulting Ltd -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of ben franchuk Sent: 14 July 2004 20:53 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Modern Electronics (was Re: List charter mods & headcount... ; Bert Thomas wrote: > I aggree that tubes are making a come back, but I don't understand what > that has to do with the quality of speakers... > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that tube amplifiers sound > "different" than semiconductor amplifiers because certain harmonics are > supressed or distorted or something like that. But I don't understand > why people like that. With todays technology its simple and cheap to > build an amplifier with a bandwidth of 100KHz and a constant phase shift > over that range. Why would you listen to something less good then > "perfect" ? > > Or am I completely ignorant/stupid here? Truth in advertising here ( while listening to a tube amp here ) is that most sales are towards a amp with the most power out into a resisive dummy load. 1) Real speakers are inductive not a 200 watt 4 ohm resistor. 2) Lots of feedback is used to keep a transistor amp linear. 3) Sine waves in a lab is different from real music. 4) People buy amps to be loud for loud rock music. > Bert From dankolb at ox.compsoc.net Thu Jul 15 04:10:12 2004 From: dankolb at ox.compsoc.net (Dan Kolb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor In-Reply-To: References: <000801c46a0e$48f35710$0402a8c0@D1> Message-ID: <20040715091012.GA28276@hades.eco.li> On Thu, Jul 15, 2004 at 06:05:49AM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > appreciated to help me to avoid hokking up something wrong. Also, are those > > male-male cables readily available at computer stores? I don't recall ever > > I believe I've seen them in the UK, but I can't be sure. I normally make > my own cables, so I don't look at commercially-made ones. I've seen them in various places - cable sellers at computer fairs tend to have them. Dan -- Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. -- Publius Syrus From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Thu Jul 15 04:20:03 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor References: Message-ID: <002101c46a4d$04902c80$0200a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 11:38 PM Subject: Re: Mitsubishi Monitor [1] Bonus points for people who know what BNC stands for.... -tony Bayonet Neill Concelman From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Thu Jul 15 04:32:23 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor References: <52c6cdce4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <005101c46a4e$b3f3a8e0$0200a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Pemberton" To: Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 10:04 AM Subject: Re: Mitsubishi Monitor > I'm still trying to find a way to make a hole in a plastic panel to mount a > BNC properly. I failed miserably on the frequency counter I made - the BNC > connector spins while you're trying to plug a probe in. Oops. Usually there's a flat section on the BNC socket , I usually drill a smaller hole and then file out to suit - especially easy in plastic. Otherwise look for a purpose made chassis cutter for BNC connectors - could be pricey. > > Later. > -- > Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, > philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI > ... DANGER! DANGER! Computer Store Ahead, Hide Wallet. From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Thu Jul 15 04:37:06 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Fw: Mitsubishi Monitor Message-ID: <006e01c46a4f$5131df00$0200a8c0@geoff> For some reason my original post got corrupted - try again. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoffrey Thomas" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 10:32 AM Subject: Re: Mitsubishi Monitor > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Philip Pemberton" > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 10:04 AM > Subject: Re: Mitsubishi Monitor > > > > I'm still trying to find a way to make a hole in a plastic panel to mount > a > > BNC properly. I failed miserably on the frequency counter I made - the BNC > > connector spins while you're trying to plug a probe in. Oops. > > Usually there's a flat section on the BNC socket , I usually drill a smaller > hole and then file out to suit - especially easy in plastic. Otherwise look > for a purpose made chassis cutter for BNC connectors - could be pricey. > > > > Later. > > -- > > Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, > 6GB, > > philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, > 2-slice, > > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI > > ... DANGER! DANGER! Computer Store Ahead, Hide Wallet. > From bert at brothom.nl Thu Jul 15 05:35:32 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Modern Electronics (was Re: List charter mods & headcount... ; References: <000201c46a4b$6b3f52a0$7104a8c0@max> Message-ID: <40F65DF4.D7CCA990@brothom.nl> Mark Wickens wrote: > > You are making the mistake in thinking that because an op-amp provides > linear amplification across a wide range of frequencies it produces the > 'nicest' sound. > > The human ear is not a linear receiver ;) > > It is simply down to what you like - and valves colour the sound in a > way that sounds 'nice' to most people. Perhaps, but that should not be the job of the amplifier, but of the 'source', whatever that may be. And now I come to think of it: it should be possible to record a CD, feeding the ADC with a signal from a tube amp, and have that "nice" sound out of a "perfect" transistor amp. Bert From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu Jul 15 06:00:38 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Amplifiers? In-Reply-To: <40F65DF4.D7CCA990@brothom.nl> Message-ID: >>> And now I come to think of it: it should be possible to >>> record a CD, feeding the ADC with a signal from a tube amp, >>> and have that "nice" sound out of a "perfect" transistor amp. Well, NO..... The "issue" is that the differences in on-linearities ("color") are also a function of volume. While this is a very subjective matter, it is quite real. As the sound enginer for a band, I did a number of tests on the frequency analysis (including phase, attack, distortion, etc) on a number of performances. Given the same material being played at different venues, the profiles were quite distinct. In recent years, a number of audio equipment manufacturers have released DSP based products that mimic the behaviour of specific tube based amplifiers. While some purists disagree, the majority of blind sound tests have confirmed that these are indistinguasible from the originals to the human (trained) ear. So a "perfect" amplifier is not really what is desired in most conditions. From akb+lists.cctech at imap1.mirror.to Thu Jul 15 07:24:39 2004 From: akb+lists.cctech at imap1.mirror.to (Andrew K. Bressen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: VCF and lisp machines In-Reply-To: <200407111558.i6BFwlw04948@mwave.heeltoe.com> (Brad Parker's message of "Sun, 11 Jul 2004 11:58:47 -0400") References: <200407111558.i6BFwlw04948@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <0qiscph308.fsf@lanconius.mirror.to> Brad Parker writes: > If anyone going to VCF and is interested in Symbolics workstations or > any type of Lisp Machine (like CADR's), and would like to get together > and talk about them, let me know (via email). I think Lenny Foner will be at VCF. He's a former Symbolics employee, and has a MacIvory at home, plus some mutual friends of ours used to have a pair of CADR's in their basement. Some of the Rhode Island Retro folks are likely to be around, too, and they've been restoring one of their 3640's lately. From bert at brothom.nl Thu Jul 15 09:05:45 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Amplifiers? References: Message-ID: <40F68F39.B014E763@brothom.nl> "David V. Corbin" wrote: > > The "issue" is that the differences in on-linearities ("color") are also a > function of volume. > > While this is a very subjective matter, it is quite real. > > As the sound enginer for a band, I did a number of tests on the frequency > analysis (including phase, attack, distortion, etc) on a number of > performances. Given the same material being played at different venues, the > profiles were quite distinct. > > In recent years, a number of audio equipment manufacturers have released DSP > based products that mimic the behaviour of specific tube based amplifiers. > While some purists disagree, the majority of blind sound tests have > confirmed that these are indistinguasible from the originals to the human > (trained) ear. > > So a "perfect" amplifier is not really what is desired in most conditions. Though I learned a lot from this discussion, I still don't see why you would not change the "color" at the input of a "perfect" amp instead of letting the amp determine the "color". Unless those DSPs compensate for the distortion in the "non-perfect" amp, those DSPs need a "perfect" amp as well. Or wrong again? Bert From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu Jul 15 08:24:41 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Amplifiers? In-Reply-To: <40F68F39.B014E763@brothom.nl> Message-ID: >>> >>> Though I learned a lot from this discussion, I still don't >>> see why you would not change the "color" at the input of a >>> "perfect" amp instead of letting the amp determine the >>> "color". Unless those DSPs compensate for the distortion in >>> the "non-perfect" amp, those DSPs need a "perfect" amp as >>> well. Or wrong again? If the Volume is going to be changed at the amplifier, then the alterations need to be done at the amplifier. If you are going to keep the amplifier at a fixed gain, then the alterations can be done at the input. The "problem" with the latter is dynamic range. Hard to have a perfect amp that can deal with outputs from a "whisper" to pumping out kilowatts. From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Jul 15 08:19:48 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor References: Message-ID: <16630.33908.203000.982308@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "David" == David V Corbin writes: >>>> [1] Bonus points for people who know what BNC stands for.... David> Bayonet Neil-Concelman or British Naval Connector! The former, although I think that first name is spelled Neill. There's also TNC (Threaded N.C.) and C and N. All nice connectors... unlike the falsehood in marketing of the "UHF" connector. paul From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jul 15 08:46:09 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor In-Reply-To: <16630.33908.203000.982308@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: > The former, although I think that first name is spelled Neill. > There's also TNC (Threaded N.C.) and C and N. All nice connectors... > unlike the falsehood in marketing of the "UHF" connector. Ah, the BNC, and what it "stands for". The problem is that there are many references to the BNC name from the late 1940s, and they mostly conflict. It would be nice to see an original Amphenol product announcement from the 1940s. The falsehood in marketting the "UHF" connector wasn't always a falsehood - when the connector series was developed (for the military as NT-49195 and PL-259, amongst other names of variation), 80 MHz was considered UHF. Even some of the Navy radios made it official, with names like "Ultra High Frequency Radiotelephone Transmitting Receiving Equipment". The UHF name (and connectors) stuck. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From transit at lerctr.org Thu Jul 15 09:05:12 2004 From: transit at lerctr.org (Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: East German arcade game In-Reply-To: <200407141700.i6EH08bb010231@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200407141700.i6EH08bb010231@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/features/polyplay.shtml The Poly Play videogame was Eastern Bloc's answer to the capitalist's Pac Man but resembles something more like on old-fashioned TV set in a tall wooden cabinet. Nevertheless, with up to eight games, a simple firing button and 8-way joystick, and a slot to take tokens rather than coins, the Poly Play is, in fact, less grim than it sounds. Simon Webb, the curator of Swindon's Museum of Computing told BBC Wiltshire, "The story goes that this was the only arcade approved machine to be produced in East Germany and they used to go into places like municipal swimming pool and leisure centres. "When the Berlin Wall came down, for some strange reason they recalled the machines to the factory and had them dismantled. A few were salvaged. There were probably about 1000-1500 made." From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Jul 15 09:09:47 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Monitor deflection magnets; what to do when one falls out & breaks? Message-ID: <200407151409.i6FE9l309652@mwave.heeltoe.com> Hi, I have an old B&W "specialty" monitor which recently stopped working. In the process of moving it around (to/from repair place) I noticed a little black "tube magnet" dropping out when I took the cover off. At the time I didn't think much of it (those in the know can chuckle now). So, after a bout of replacing bad caps with no luck, I eventually broke down and replaced the deflection board and the monitor sprang to life. Much joy. (note: "specialty" = designed for a specific computer with a special ECL video connection and has no standard connector or interface. and no schematics) So, monitor is working. I proceed to adjust the H & V size, linearity, etc... I notice that the bottom and sides will square up nicely but the top edge has a large "dip" in the middle. No amount of trimmer fiddling will fix this. light goes off. "found" tube magnet is part of yoke assembly. So, I notice where the missing magnet came from. Naturally it's on the top side of the yoke assembly. But - the "tube" has broken into 3 pieces (it was broke when I found it. honest). I carefully glued it back together (no glue in the joints, however) and replaced it. This helped a little but did not cure the problem. [note to reader: I never took that fields course. I know nothing of magnets.] So, - is a broken magnet pushed back together not as good as a whole magnet? (strength wise) - can I get a new magnet somewhere? - is there anything special about these magnets? - do normal monitor repair guys just have a box of these laying around? - does this sort of thing happen all the time? -brad From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Jul 15 09:26:09 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Monitor deflection magnets; what to do when one falls out & breaks? References: <200407151409.i6FE9l309652@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <16630.37889.389000.873658@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Brad" == Brad Parker writes: Brad> Hi, Brad> I have an old B&W "specialty" monitor which recently stopped Brad> working. In the process of moving it around (to/from repair Brad> place) I noticed a little black "tube magnet" dropping out when Brad> I took the cover off. Brad> So, I notice where the missing magnet came from. Naturally Brad> it's on the top side of the yoke assembly. Brad> But - the "tube" has broken into 3 pieces (it was broke when I Brad> found it. honest). I carefully glued it back together (no Brad> glue in the joints, however) and replaced it. This helped a Brad> little but did not cure the problem. Brad> [note to reader: I never took that fields course. I know Brad> nothing of magnets.] Brad> So, Brad> - is a broken magnet pushed back together not as good as a Brad> whole magnet? (strength wise) Brad> - can I get a new magnet somewhere? Brad> - is there anything special about these magnets? It's probably not a magnet, but rather a ferrite core. You'd know the difference putting the pieces together -- if you feel no attraction or repulsion, it's not a permanent magnet. A broken & repaired one is just fine so long as the gaps are tight. If you create an airgap -- with or without glue -- that will change the characteristics. For a repair like that I'd consider the thin (not gap filling) superglue. Brad> - do normal monitor repair guys just have a box of these laying Brad> around? Maybe, but it wouldn't necessarily fit. Brad> - does this sort of thing happen all the time? It's never happened to me... As for the problem, I wonder if the issue is that the core is in the wrong spot. It's part of the deflection magnetics assembly, and if it's misplaced then you'd certainly get problems like you describe. Take a look at the corresponding piece at the bottom of the yoke. I would expect things to be symmetric. The fact that the thing fell out suggests that it may have been out of position, and when you pushed it back in you may not have gotten it back where it actually belongs. paul From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Jul 15 10:54:51 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Monitor deflection magnets; what to do when one falls out & breaks? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:26:09 EDT." <16630.37889.389000.873658@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200407151554.i6FFspS10541@mwave.heeltoe.com> Paul Koning wrote: > >It's probably not a magnet, but rather a ferrite core. You'd know the >difference putting the pieces together -- if you feel no attraction or >repulsion, it's not a permanent magnet. Interesting. The pieces do attract. Are ferrite cores magnetic? (I would think a ferrite core would have wires wrapped around it) These magnets are not connected to the wired internal yoke assembly - they are glued to a "collar" which is close to the back of the tube. The collar is round but the magnets are glued to make a square - I assume this helps make the image square. (or not :-) The magnets on the two sides are symmetric as are the top and bottom. Both top and sides have two "tube magnets" but ared spaced slightly differently. The sides have two magnets side by side with no gap. The top and bottom have two magnets side by side with a a 1/4" gap. I can see where the glue was holding the magnet. That's where I put it back. I assume the poles should be aligned, i.e. the poles of the two magnets should be the same, producing a larger overall field (I presume) >As for the problem, I wonder if the issue is that the core is in the >wrong spot. It's part of the deflection magnetics assembly, and if >it's misplaced then you'd certainly get problems like you describe. >Take a look at the corresponding piece at the bottom of the yoke. I >would expect things to be symmetric. The fact that the thing fell out >suggests that it may have been out of position, and when you pushed it >back in you may not have gotten it back where it actually belongs. Well, it fell out onto the floor when I took the enclosure off :-) -brad From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Thu Jul 15 11:17:59 2004 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Booting a VAXstation 4000 VLC off the hobbyist boot CD-ROM In-Reply-To: <000101c46a4a$f5c9e530$7104a8c0@max> References: <000101c46a4a$f5c9e530$7104a8c0@max> Message-ID: <8A209F13-D67A-11D8-BEA5-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> I borrowed a Plextor drive model PX-45CS and it boots standalone backup and presents me with a '$' prompt. If I type the restore command: $ backup/image dka400:vms072.b/save dka0: I get the following message and nothing else: %SYSTEM-I-MOUNTVER, SABKUP$DKA400: is offline. Mount verification in progress. Does anyone have any idea how to get past this? Thanks, David On Jul 15, 2004, at 5:06 AM, Mark Wickens wrote: > David, > > The joys of SCSI CDROMs and VAXes ;) Are you sure you really want to > know > :-o > > I had the same thing with a VAXstation 4000/90 recently. The problem is > that in order to boot off a CDROM the VAX requires that the drive be > set > in 512 bytes/sector mode. This will be configured by a jumper on the > drive itself. You may well find that the drive does not support this > mode, as most PC-compatible drives use 2K bytes/sector. Also, not all > SCSI cdrom drives are made equal - I have a Pioneer drive which > supports > 512 bytes/sector but still doesn't boot correctly. > > In the case where it doesn't work I would suggest rather than messing > around trying drives you get yourself a Plextor UltraPlex 40x drive > (they can be picked up off ebay, I would say that a 32x drive would > also > work but don't quote me on this) - this is the only type of drive that > has worked for me. > > Persevere though - it is worth it - I recently got to the stage where > I'm into DECwindows and it is scary seeing it after nearly 12 years > since I saw it last. > > Mark. > > Mark Wickens > Rhodium Consulting Ltd > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Antonio Carlini > Sent: 14 July 2004 23:29 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: RE: Booting a VAXstation 4000 VLC off the hobbyist boot CD-ROM > >> I have my VAXstation 4000 VLC running to the ">>>" prompt and would >> like to boot the hobbyist CD-ROM to install VMS on the hard drive but >> I'm having trouble getting the CD-ROM to boot. If I type >> 'boot dka400' >> at the prompt, the CD-ROM spins up and I get the text "-DKA400" >> displayed on the console but then I get the ">>>" prompt again. Can >> anyone tell me why that would happen? I'm using a NEC CDR-1910A SCSI >> CD-ROM drive set to SCSI ID 4. > > I'm assuming that you are using a VAX VMS CD and not an > Alpha one :-) (And that it's the OS one and not one of > the layered products ones ...) > > Some of the later CDs (V6.1 onwards or so) allow > you to boot to OpenVMS rather than SA BACKUP: > > So something like: > > B/R5:10000000 DKA400: > > may work. If you have another working VMS box > you can verify that the CD you have does indeed > have a [SYS1] root. > > "B DKA400:" should have booted SA BACKUP, so > if it didn't are you sure that: > - you used the right CD (what part number and OS version is it)? > - that your CD actually is DKA400: (SHOW DEVICE should help here) > - that your CD supports 512-byte blocks and is configured to do so > (what CD is it)? > > Antonio > > > -- > > --------------- > > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > > > From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Thu Jul 15 11:30:16 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (classiccmp@vintage-computer.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Old software files needed Message-ID: <47521.127.0.0.1.1089909016.squirrel@www.vintage-computer.com> I got this via email today: ---[ Snip ]--- For a magazine review of a file-viewing program, I?m trying to find data files in a variety of old formats that would be used in testing. Would you have any you could send or know someone who would have such files? I?m interested in files from word processor, spreadsheet, database, presentation, and graphics programs. The data files I?m looking for include those from programs such as WordStar, DisplayWrite, Enable, PFS:Write, MultiMate, dBase, FoxBase, Paradox, Lotus 1-2-3, Quattro Pro, Freelance, Harvard Graphics, and the like. Thanks for your help. Gary Berline ---[ Snip ]--- Please contact Gary directly at Gary_BerlineNOSPAM@NOSPAMziffdavis.com - removing the obvious. Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Jul 15 11:46:54 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Monitor deflection magnets; what to do when one falls out & breaks? References: <16630.37889.389000.873658@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <200407151554.i6FFspS10541@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <16630.46334.562415.111677@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Brad" == Brad Parker writes: Brad> Paul Koning wrote: >> It's probably not a magnet, but rather a ferrite core. You'd know >> the difference putting the pieces together -- if you feel no >> attraction or repulsion, it's not a permanent magnet. Brad> Interesting. The pieces do attract. Brad> Are ferrite cores magnetic? Nope. Brad> (I would think a ferrite core would have wires wrapped around Brad> it) Not necessarily. I've seen deflection yokes that had ferrite in them, but not with the wire around them. Brad> These magnets are not connected to the wired internal yoke Brad> assembly - they are glued to a "collar" which is close to the Brad> back of the tube. The collar is round but the magnets are Brad> glued to make a square - I assume this helps make the image Brad> square. (or not :-) Probably not... Anyway, sounds like it might be a focusing magnet. Brad> The magnets on the two sides are symmetric as are the top and Brad> bottom. Both top and sides have two "tube magnets" but ared Brad> spaced slightly differently. The sides have two magnets side Brad> by side with no gap. The top and bottom have two magnets side Brad> by side with a a 1/4" gap. Brad> I can see where the glue was holding the magnet. That's where Brad> I put it back. Brad> I assume the poles should be aligned, i.e. the poles of the two Brad> magnets should be the same, producing a larger overall field (I Brad> presume) If the bore in the magnet is cylindrical, it would fit on the neck of the tube two ways. Only one of those is right (and I'm not sure which one that would be). So you might try taking it off and turning it 180 degrees to see if that improves matters. Are you sure that the fragments are held together with no air gap? If not you might try thin superglue to glue the pieces to fix that. paul From melamy at earthlink.net Thu Jul 15 11:48:13 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Monitor deflection magnets; what to do when one falls out & breaks? Message-ID: <4025789.1089910094611.JavaMail.root@rowlf.psp.pas.earthlink.net> these are indeed magnets and were usually the dirt cheap variety. They were set in place at the factory to "trim" the beam to overcome mechanical deviations in the gun and deflection assemblies internal to the crt. They were not all that powerful. The best source of replacement would be another old monitor that you can take the magnets out of. best regards, Steve Thatcher -----Original Message----- From: Brad Parker Sent: Jul 15, 2004 11:54 AM To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Subject: Re: Monitor deflection magnets; what to do when one falls out & breaks? Paul Koning wrote: > >It's probably not a magnet, but rather a ferrite core. You'd know the >difference putting the pieces together -- if you feel no attraction or >repulsion, it's not a permanent magnet. Interesting. The pieces do attract. Are ferrite cores magnetic? (I would think a ferrite core would have wires wrapped around it) These magnets are not connected to the wired internal yoke assembly - they are glued to a "collar" which is close to the back of the tube. The collar is round but the magnets are glued to make a square - I assume this helps make the image square. (or not :-) The magnets on the two sides are symmetric as are the top and bottom. Both top and sides have two "tube magnets" but ared spaced slightly differently. The sides have two magnets side by side with no gap. The top and bottom have two magnets side by side with a a 1/4" gap. I can see where the glue was holding the magnet. That's where I put it back. I assume the poles should be aligned, i.e. the poles of the two magnets should be the same, producing a larger overall field (I presume) >As for the problem, I wonder if the issue is that the core is in the >wrong spot. It's part of the deflection magnetics assembly, and if >it's misplaced then you'd certainly get problems like you describe. >Take a look at the corresponding piece at the bottom of the yoke. I >would expect things to be symmetric. The fact that the thing fell out >suggests that it may have been out of position, and when you pushed it >back in you may not have gotten it back where it actually belongs. Well, it fell out onto the floor when I took the enclosure off :-) -brad From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Thu Jul 15 12:03:46 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Booting a VAXstation 4000 VLC off the hobbyist boot CD-ROM In-Reply-To: <8A209F13-D67A-11D8-BEA5-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> Message-ID: <003501c46a8d$b7cd6200$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > I borrowed a Plextor drive model PX-45CS and it boots > standalone backup > and presents me with a '$' prompt. If I type the restore command: > > $ backup/image dka400:vms072.b/save dka0: > > I get the following message and nothing else: > > %SYSTEM-I-MOUNTVER, SABKUP$DKA400: is offline. Mount verification in > progress. > > Does anyone have any idea how to get past this? That command would be fine if DKA400: were a disk (or rather, if it were MKA400:) but for a disk saveset you need to specify the directory don't you: $ backup/image dka400:[000000]vms072.b/save dka0: /VERIFY I'm not sure that [000000] is right; I am sure, however, that omission of /VERIFY was just a careless oversight when copying the command :-) If you can now boot, try booting OpenVMS off the CD. This started to work with (IIRC) OpenVMS VAX V6.1 and is now quite possibly supported: B/R5:10000000 DKA400: (that's 1 followed by 7 zeroes). Apart from anything else, this will exercise your system considerably more than just booting SABACKUP. It's possible that the drivers just don't like your CDROM (although they seem to like it more than your previous one). If this still does not work, do you have access to a genuine RRD4x or even a SONY CDU-??? (many of the RRD4x drives were SONY CDUs of one sort or another - after a while DEC stopped *paying extra* to have the headphone socket torn out!!) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From blairrya at msu.edu Thu Jul 15 12:07:27 2004 From: blairrya at msu.edu (Ryan M. Blair) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Booting a VAXstation 4000 VLC off the hobbyist boot CD-ROM In-Reply-To: <003501c46a8d$b7cd6200$5b01a8c0@flexpc> References: <8A209F13-D67A-11D8-BEA5-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> <003501c46a8d$b7cd6200$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <20040715130727.4827cbe6.blairrya@msu.edu> > $ backup/image dka400:[000000]vms072.b/save dka0: /VERIFY > > I'm not sure that [000000] is right; I am sure, however, [000000] would be correct to have in there Loading VMS 7.3 onto my VAXstation 4000/60 looks like this: $ backup dka500:[000000]vms073.b/save_set dka0: /VERIFY -- Ryan Blair From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Jul 15 12:09:27 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Monitor deflection magnets; what to do when one falls out & breaks? In-Reply-To: <16630.46334.562415.111677@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16630.37889.389000.873658@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <200407151554.i6FFspS10541@mwave.heeltoe.com> <16630.46334.562415.111677@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: These are cylindrical, low-gauss ferrite magnets called 'trimming magnets' or 'pincushion magnets'. A lot of cheaper CRT devices use 'em to tweak the display. They're a pain in the butt, especially the ones near the front of the CRT that gradually get demagnetized with each power-on degauss cycle. They are sometimes available at larger 'real' hardware stores (in the US) like True Value, etc. Or, as was wisely suggested, cannibalize them from another junk tube. Chees John From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Jul 15 12:30:34 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Monitor deflection magnets; what to do when one falls out & breaks? Message-ID: <200407151730.KAA10568@clulw009.amd.com> Hi It should be noted that when broken, these cheap magnets will lose some of their magnetism that can not be recovered by simply gluing the piece together. As was mentioned, finding others on scrap units is the easiest. Positioning these is an art. They never seem to do what one expects so take your time at locating the best location and orientation. It most likely will not be the same as it was originally. Watch out for the anode lead and wear eye protection, any time you are working on he monitor with the cover off. Dwight >From: "John Lawson" > > > These are cylindrical, low-gauss ferrite magnets called 'trimming >magnets' or 'pincushion magnets'. A lot of cheaper CRT devices use 'em to >tweak the display. They're a pain in the butt, especially the ones near >the front of the CRT that gradually get demagnetized with each power-on >degauss cycle. > > They are sometimes available at larger 'real' hardware stores (in the >US) like True Value, etc. > > Or, as was wisely suggested, cannibalize them from another junk tube. > > > Chees > > >John > > > > From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Thu Jul 15 12:39:49 2004 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Booting a VAXstation 4000 VLC off the hobbyist boot CD-ROM In-Reply-To: <003501c46a8d$b7cd6200$5b01a8c0@flexpc> References: <003501c46a8d$b7cd6200$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: Thanks for your suggestions! On Jul 15, 2004, at 1:03 PM, Antonio Carlini wrote: > B/R5:10000000 DKA400: > > (that's 1 followed by 7 zeroes). > I tried this and ultimately got the same "DKA400: is offline" message. I guess it doesn't like this CD-ROM drive either. This is the last one I have to try. Maybe I can find someone with one at VCF East tomorrow. For what it's worth, here is the complete transcript of my attempt to boot VMS from the hobbyist CD-ROM: KA48-A V1.3-343-V4.0 08-00-2B-33-EE-74 24MB OK >>> show dev VMS/VMB ADDR DEVTYPE NUMBYTES RM/FX WP DEVNAM REV ------- ---- ------- -------- ----- -- ------ --- ESA0 08-00-2B-33-EE-74 DKA0 A/0/0 DISK 526.10MB FX LPS525S 3110 DKA400 A/4/0 RODISK 681.57MB RM WP CD-ROM 1.01 ..HostID.. A/6 INITR >>> show config KA48-A V1.3-343-V4.0 08-00-2B-33-EE-74 24MB DEVNBR DEVNAM INFO ------ -------- -------------------------- 1 NVR OK 2 LCG OK HR - 8 PLN FB - V1.2 3 DZ OK 4 CACHE OK 5 MEM OK 24MB = S0/1=8MB, S2/3=8MB, S4/5=8MB 6 FPU OK 7 IT OK 8 SYS OK 9 NI OK 10 SCSI OK 0-LPS525S 4-CD-ROM 6-INITR 11 AUD OK >>> b/r5:10000000 dka400: -DKA400 %SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT Mapping the SYSDUMP.DMP on the System Disk %SYSBOOT-W-SYSBOOT Can not map SYSDUMP.DMP on the System Disk %SYSBOOT-W-SYSBOOT Can not map PAGEFILE.SYS on the System Disk OpenVMS (TM) VAX Version X72T Major version id = 1 Minor version id = 0 %SYSINIT-E, %SYSINIT, error opening system dump file, status = 00000910 %SYSINIT, primary PAGEFILE.SYS not found; system initialization continuing %SYSINIT, no dump file - error log buffers not saved %SYSTEM-I-MOUNTVER, DKA400: is offline. Mount verification in progress. From cmcnabb at gmail.com Thu Jul 15 12:39:55 2004 From: cmcnabb at gmail.com (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Monitor deflection magnets; what to do when one falls out & breaks? In-Reply-To: <200407151409.i6FE9l309652@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200407151409.i6FE9l309652@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <145cecdd040715103978fd7cb7@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:09:47 -0400, Brad Parker wrote: > But - the "tube" has broken into 3 pieces (it was broke when I found it. > honest). I carefully glued it back together (no glue in the joints, > however) and replaced it. This helped a little but did not cure the > problem. > A physical shock strong enough to break the magnet could easily have also reordered the magnetic domains, causing it to become less magnetic. From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Jul 15 13:29:35 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Monitor deflection magnets; what to do when one falls out & breaks? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 15 Jul 2004 13:39:55 EDT." <145cecdd040715103978fd7cb7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200407151829.i6FITZi12078@mwave.heeltoe.com> I also wanted to point out one thing (just to be clear/pedantic) There are several (5-6?) small (like 1/4" x 1/2") magnets glued in random places around the yoke collar. These are not, however, the ones I'm talking about. I'm talking about the ones that are "cylinder magnets" in the "mmm" places below. They are all about 2" long. (hard to imagine why I would stoop to ascii art in this day of digital cameras) viewed "through" the crt from the front: ------------------- / mmmmmmmmmmmmm \ / mmmmmmmmmmmmm <------ this one fell out |mm mm| |mm mm| |mm --- mm| |mm / \ mm| |mm \ / mm| |mm --- mm| |mm mm| \ mmmmmmmmmmmmm / \ mmmmmmmmmmmmm / ------------------- Christopher McNabb wrote: >On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:09:47 -0400, Brad Parker wrote: > >> But - the "tube" has broken into 3 pieces (it was broke when I found it. >> honest). I carefully glued it back together (no glue in the joints, >> however) and replaced it. This helped a little but did not cure the >> problem. >> > >A physical shock strong enough to break the magnet could easily have >also reordered the magnetic domains, causing it to become less >magnetic. > From kth at srv.net Thu Jul 15 13:55:54 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: simh and rt11 primer. In-Reply-To: <9E9931B61C3E74468AD7682A0C699376053F93@redoctober.redrouteone.local> References: <9E9931B61C3E74468AD7682A0C699376053F93@redoctober.redrouteone.local> Message-ID: <40F6D33A.7050508@srv.net> Eric Moody wrote: >Hello, > >I have wanted a PDP11 for years but currently do not have the space for >one so I have decided to do the next best thing use simh. I have >downloaded simh and the rt11 disk image but I am kind of stuck on where >to go. Does anyone know of any sites or documents available online that >cover configuration of simh and the installation and use of rt11. I >have done some messing around and have managed to boot the rt11 image by >using the commands > >at rl0 rtv53_rl.dsk > >at rl1 eric_pdp11_rt11.dsk <- This is a file that I intend to do my >install to. Is that wrong? > >Boot rl1. > > > Your OS in in rl0, and rl1 is blank. Try 'boot rl0' instead. > > >I choose the automatic option but then it wants me to mount a disk in >dl1 so that it can backup the media. I try to attach dl1 but I get an >error non existent device. If try to create the disk during the install >the install just errors out and dies. > > > >Any help with this will be most appreciated. > >Eric > > > > From tponsford at theriver.com Thu Jul 15 14:10:02 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Another good day at the auction and Free Stuff Message-ID: <40F6D68A.3040904@theriver.com> Hi All, Another great day at the auction. My $30 bought me: 5-Dec Alpha 4/233's 2-Dec MVII's all filled with qbus cards, no scsi (this time) but a almost brand new RD54!! in one. 1 5' computer rack and a HP 9000/300 complete with: -7959 S SCSI controller and disk - 98730 S 32bit Davinci Graphics subsystem -most of the cables, etc The 9000 was given to me by a guy who won the lot it came in but only wanted the peecee stuff. If anybody wants to give it a good home it's yours for the taking; It's on a rolling rack and is about the same size as the MVII's Cheers Tom -- --- Please do not read this sig. If you have read this far, please unread back to the beginning. From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Thu Jul 15 14:29:32 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Another good day at the auction and Free Stuff In-Reply-To: <40F6D68A.3040904@theriver.com> Message-ID: <006901c46aa2$0eeb89e0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > 5-Dec Alpha 4/233's > 2-Dec MVII's all filled with qbus cards, no scsi (this time) Nice machines - all 7 of them! > but a almost > brand new RD54!! in one. What does "NEW" mean in this context - 1989 mfg date :-) > > a HP 9000/300 complete with: > -7959 S SCSI controller and disk > - 98730 S 32bit Davinci Graphics subsystem > -most of the cables, etc > > The 9000 was given to me by a guy who won the lot it came in > but only wanted > the peecee stuff. Say all you like about PC Weenies, but they do have their uses!! Nice haul! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Thu Jul 15 16:26:28 2004 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Anybody want to get together at VCF East? Message-ID: I'm there, at the Marriott. Email me directly if you want to get together for dinner or something. Also, any exhibitors know what we're supposed to do tomorrow? Bill S. From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Thu Jul 15 16:33:10 2004 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Anybody want to get together at VCF East? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I'm there, at the Marriott. Email me directly if you want to > get together for dinner or something. Or (of course! duh) call me. I'm in room 618. From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Thu Jul 15 16:33:39 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: simh and rt11 primer. References: <9E9931B61C3E74468AD7682A0C699376053F93@redoctober.redrouteone.local> Message-ID: <40F6F833.87C13D63@compsys.to> >Eric Moody wrote: > Hello, > > I have wanted a PDP11 for years but currently do not have the space for > one so I have decided to do the next best thing use simh. I have > downloaded simh and the rt11 disk image but I am kind of stuck on where > to go. Does anyone know of any sites or documents available online that > cover configuration of simh and the installation and use of rt11. I > have done some messing around and have managed to boot the rt11 image by > using the commands > > at rl0 rtv53_rl.dsk > > at rl1 eric_pdp11_rt11.dsk <- This is a file that I intend to do my > install to. Is that wrong? > > Boot rl1. > > I choose the automatic option but then it wants me to mount a disk in > dl1 so that it can backup the media. I try to attach dl1 but I get an > error non existent device. If try to create the disk during the install > the install just errors out and dies. > > Any help with this will be most appreciated. Jerome Fine replies: What does "eric_pdp11_rt11.dsk" contain? If it is a zero length file, then the install will probably not work. Also, I presume that you actually typed: "Boot rl0" since that is where the RT-11 distribution is located. Also, although RT-11 uses "dl" as the device name, SIMH uses ""rl" as the device name. That is the reason for the confusion! And if you want to go through the installation, then I suggest you use PUTR to produce an empty "working" dsk (container) file via the command: FORMAT eric_pdp11_rt11.dsk/RL02 before you "Boot rl0" PUTR with the "/RL02" switch automatically produces a container file with the extra blocks required by a PDP-11 for the system area on an RL02 media. BUT, before you boot rl0, you should probably: SET RL0 LOCK Then, the install will abort because rl0 is WRITE PROTECTED. At that point, you can: COPY/DEVICE DL0: DL1: If you want to avoid the install, just: COPY/BOOT DL1:RT11XM.SYS DL1: BOOT DL1: In your situation, the install is NOT needed. However, "rtv53_rl.dsk" does not have the required system area which is required under RT-11 to: INIT DL0: So if that is ever required, you MUST start with PUTR to set up that empty file and then COPY from DL0: to DL1: which can be done after you Boot rl0: (DL0: as far as RT-11 is concerned) even though no system area is present on rl0: After you exit from SIMH, you might want to make a backup copy (under the Windows OS) of rl1: Once that is done, if you have more RT-11 questions, please ask. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jul 15 16:44:44 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Anybody want to get together at VCF East? References: Message-ID: <40F6FACC.4040002@tiac.net> Setup at 9:00 AM tomorrow, while missing the speakers! Unbeleiveable. Its bad enough half the show takes place on a weekday, but no advanced setup time for vendors or exhibits is not the way to run such an event, IMO. Bill Sudbrink wrote: >I'm there, at the Marriott. Email me directly if you want to >get together for dinner or something. Also, any exhibitors know >what we're supposed to do tomorrow? > >Bill S. > From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Thu Jul 15 16:48:25 2004 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Anybody want to get together at VCF East? In-Reply-To: <40F6FACC.4040002@tiac.net> Message-ID: > Setup at 9:00 AM tomorrow, while missing the speakers! Hmmm... Looks like the speakers don't start till 10. It won't take me more than an hour to set up, but I can see how others might need more time. From aek at spies.com Thu Jul 15 17:12:56 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: VCF and lisp machines Message-ID: <20040715221256.2FC763C3A@spies.com> He's a former Symbolics employee, and has a MacIvory at home, plus some mutual friends of ours used to have a pair of CADR's in their basement. == Could you ask if they have any load bands on tape? From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jul 15 17:21:07 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Anybody want to get together at VCF East? References: Message-ID: <40F70353.2030802@tiac.net> All these exhibits are going to be setup within an hour, the same hour? With no issues of used unloading zones, etc? Bill Sudbrink wrote: >>Setup at 9:00 AM tomorrow, while missing the speakers! >> > >Hmmm... Looks like the speakers don't start till 10. >It won't take me more than an hour to set up, but I >can see how others might need more time. > > > From marvin at rain.org Thu Jul 15 17:17:11 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Anybody want to get together at VCF East? References: <40F6FACC.4040002@tiac.net> Message-ID: <40F70267.3BA7A6FE@rain.org> Bob Shannon wrote: > > Setup at 9:00 AM tomorrow, while missing the speakers! > > Unbeleiveable. Its bad enough half the show takes place on a weekday, > but no advanced > setup time for vendors or exhibits is not the way to run such an event, IMO. I have no idea what the time constraints are on the place where VCF East is being held, but it would seem like this event should be considered *FUN*. It sounds like you are taking this way too seriously and need to lighten up. If you really want to hear the speakers, bring someone else to help setup. VCF is a *GREAT* place to put faces with names and get to know others on the list. Generally speaking, what I sell at VCF pays for the expenses of being there (hotel, meals, etc.) From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jul 15 17:13:55 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:18 2005 Subject: Booting a VAXstation 4000 VLC off the hobbyist boot CD-ROM In-Reply-To: David Betz "Re: Booting a VAXstation 4000 VLC off the hobbyist boot CD-ROM" (Jul 15, 13:39) References: <003501c46a8d$b7cd6200$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <10407152313.ZM16258@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 15, 13:39, David Betz wrote: > > Thanks for your suggestions! > > On Jul 15, 2004, at 1:03 PM, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > B/R5:10000000 DKA400: > > > > (that's 1 followed by 7 zeroes). > > > > I tried this and ultimately got the same "DKA400: is offline" message. > I guess it doesn't like this CD-ROM drive either. This is the last one > I have to try. Maybe I can find someone with one at VCF East tomorrow. I've not tried to boot a VAXstation 4000 from CD-ROM, but I've had no problem with lots of other classic machines using older Toshiba drives. Almost all modern (newer than about mid-90s) drives understand the SCSI command to set the blocksize to 512 bytes in software, but older machines don't know to do that. I keep a couple of Toshibas just for that reason; XM3201, XM3301 and XM3401 at least have a couple of pairs of half-moon solder pads, near the SCSI connector, normally linked for 2048-byte blocks, but you can cut the tracks between one or both to set 512-byte blocks. The three different 512-byte settings are supposed to be for Sun, SGI, and Intergraph, but I've never noticed much difference. OTOH, I have a couple of Hitachis and an NEC which can be set to 512-byte blocks, and they don't work too well (the Hitachis in particular are very slow and generate lots of errors), so apparently not all CD-ROM drives are created equal. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Jul 15 17:32:16 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: VCF and lisp machines In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 15 Jul 2004 15:12:56 PDT." <20040715221256.2FC763C3A@spies.com> Message-ID: <200407152232.i6FMWGE17915@mwave.heeltoe.com> Al Kossow wrote: > >Could you ask if they have any load bands on tape? I ask *everybody* that question :-) Friends of mine won't drink with me anymore because I keep bring up lispm stories. ("you know why they called it a CADR? because it was the *next* one! ha ha ha") :-) I'll ask. -brad From kenziem at sympatico.ca Thu Jul 15 18:29:45 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Apple IIe ROM Message-ID: <200407151929.45809.kenziem@sympatico.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Tested a bunch of Apple II machines (and clones ) today and found 2 with a funny ROM 8409 G C19746 341-0168-A Apple 83 the start screen is APPLE with two linked S's and a degree symbol Also a Orange peel but it all it produced was a screen of @ The IBM PC3270 booted up with DOS3.1 The IBM 5150's booted to basic All in all a good day of testing and I cleared off a shelf! - -- Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA9xNpLPrIaE/xBZARAvQIAJ9ogFummagjS2SqXlOkhFbW2rkveQCeKrbe fhJf/NYyyxUTGeGMXsWcF5M= =4Vgq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 15 18:05:52 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor In-Reply-To: <001301c46a49$c3462ed0$0402a8c0@D1> from "d-gordon@sbcglobal.net" at Jul 15, 4 01:57:31 am Message-ID: > I double checked the DIP switch bank and it has only 8 DIP > switches. The DIP switche instructions are grouped into 3 sections, the > first with 4 switches, saying Text Color w/ Green Amber and Red, for the > first group. The second group says Text/Color and has only 2 switches. > The third group has the last 4 DIP switches and says "TTL Color" and each This sounds as though it's mot just VGA, in fact it might not be VGA at all. TTL is a digital 'standard' (TTL == Transistor Transistor Logic, the famous 74xx series of ICs). VGA uses analogue signals for the 3 colour drives. On the other hand, BNC connectors sound suspiciously like analogue inputs to me. You are sure that both the DE connectors have 15 pins. If one of them had 9 pins, that could certainly be a digital input. Or maybe you do need a special cable, with both analogue and digial signals on different pins of the same connector or something. > switch says something different. The first says the number 8, the second > "16 SAT." and "16 PAS", the third "32". To me it doesn't make sense. For THis sounds like 3 bits (8 colours), 4 bits (16 colours, SATurated or PAStel), or 5 bits (32 colours). Several machiens used 3 or 4 bit digital colour outputs. I've never come across a 5 bit output, though. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 15 18:08:07 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor In-Reply-To: <52c6cdce4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> from "Philip Pemberton" at Jul 15, 4 10:04:26 am Message-ID: > > I'm still trying to find a way to make a hole in a plastic panel to mount a Plastic is difficult because you can't really use a punch/die (there is a BNC punch for the RS rack-and-pinion press, but that system is not cheap!). How about using the type of BNC socket with a square flange and 4 mounting holes? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 15 18:10:59 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor In-Reply-To: <16630.33908.203000.982308@gargle.gargle.HOWL> from "Paul Koning" at Jul 15, 4 09:19:48 am Message-ID: > unlike the falsehood in marketing of the "UHF" connector. Horrible thing. Not even close to constant impedance... The only good thing about the PL259/SO239 connector is that you can stick a 4mm banana plug in the signal contact for very low-freqeuncy work. But I wouldn't use it for UHF work... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 15 18:15:34 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Monitor deflection magnets; what to do when one falls out & breaks? In-Reply-To: <200407151409.i6FE9l309652@mwave.heeltoe.com> from "Brad Parker" at Jul 15, 4 10:09:47 am Message-ID: > > > Hi, > > I have an old B&W "specialty" monitor which recently stopped working. > In the process of moving it around (to/from repair place) I noticed a > little black "tube magnet" dropping out when I took the cover off. > > At the time I didn't think much of it (those in the know can chuckle now). There are few, if any, unimportant components in monitors :-) > > So, after a bout of replacing bad caps with no luck, I eventually broke > down and replaced the deflection board and the monitor sprang to life. > > Much joy. > > (note: "specialty" = designed for a specific computer with a special ECL What machine? > video connection and has no standard connector or interface. and no > schematics) No schematics is not an excuse for not repairing things properly. I've had to start with no schematics quite often (and by the end of the repair I normally have my own set of scheamtics...) > > So, monitor is working. I proceed to adjust the H & V size, linearity, etc... > > I notice that the bottom and sides will square up nicely but the top > edge has a large "dip" in the middle. No amount of trimmer fiddling will > fix this. > > light goes off. "found" tube magnet is part of yoke assembly. Quite probably... > > So, I notice where the missing magnet came from. Naturally it's on the > top side of the yoke assembly. > > But - the "tube" has broken into 3 pieces (it was broke when I found it. > honest). I carefully glued it back together (no glue in the joints, What glue did you use? Isocyano acryliic hydro-copolymerising adhesive is probably the bsst for this becuase it's such a thin layer. Did you carefully align the broken parts (so no gaps) when you stuck them together? > however) and replaced it. This helped a little but did not cure the > problem. > > [note to reader: I never took that fields course. I know nothing of magnets.] > > So, > > - is a broken magnet pushed back together not as good as a whole magnet? > (strength wise) Should be, provided there are no gaps. > > - can I get a new magnet somewhere? Is this a monochrome monitor? If so, try expserimenting with other small magnets. I don't think you can do much permanent harm. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 15 18:18:33 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Monitor deflection magnets; In-Reply-To: <16630.37889.389000.873658@gargle.gargle.HOWL> from "Paul Koning" at Jul 15, 4 10:26:09 am Message-ID: > It's probably not a magnet, but rather a ferrite core. You'd know the > difference putting the pieces together -- if you feel no attraction or > repulsion, it's not a permanent magnet. A ferrite core on its own probsbly wouldn't do much (unless it was inserted inside a coil, say). It could be associated with a permanent magnet, though. > As for the problem, I wonder if the issue is that the core is in the > wrong spot. It's part of the deflection magnetics assembly, and if > it's misplaced then you'd certainly get problems like you describe. > Take a look at the corresponding piece at the bottom of the yoke. I > would expect things to be symmetric. The fact that the thing fell out > suggests that it may have been out of position, and when you pushed it > back in you may not have gotten it back where it actually belongs. Another possibility is that there's something else -- say a permanent magnet -- missing. Conpare the top and bottom of the yoke and if anything is not theee. A permanent magnet, of course, might be stuck to any part of the monitor chassis (and might be messing up the raster as a result!). -tony From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Jul 15 19:30:37 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Monitor deflection magnets; what to do when one falls out & breaks? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 16 Jul 2004 00:15:34 BST." Message-ID: <200407160030.i6G0Ubn18868@mwave.heeltoe.com> Tony Duell wrote: >> >> (note: "specialty" = designed for a specific computer with a special ECL > >What machine? A Symbolics Lisp Machine. >What glue did you use? Isocyano acryliic hydro-copolymerising adhesive is >probably the bsst for this becuase it's such a thin layer. Did you >carefully align the broken parts (so no gaps) when you stuck them together? I did. I didn't actually glue them - I just put a layer of silicone on one side. I was careful to get it lined up (it had a nice glue strip which made that easy) >Is this a monochrome monitor? If so, try expserimenting with other small >magnets. I don't think you can do much permanent harm. It's mono. I have a dead pc mono monitor downstair I plan to open up and look for a replacement magnet :-) -brad From allain at panix.com Thu Jul 15 20:44:14 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Anybody want to get together at VCF East? References: <40F70353.2030802@tiac.net> Message-ID: <003901c46ad6$66e8e0a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Quite a few people (>10%?) go to work at 8:00. You might want to at least have one person try for that and let the rest know if he gets in. Pick a friendly person . I would kinda expect Sellam to be around somewhere now to help you coordinate too. I know we all eMail each other too much but try switching to the Phone and the FrontDesk as your comm. tools John A. easy for me to say, not there till Tomorrow. From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu Jul 15 20:50:16 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Anybody want to get together at VCF East? In-Reply-To: <003901c46ad6$66e8e0a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: I am in a building full of little passages. All of the rooms have numbers on them. Many have a sign that says "gnikoms on". Rumor has it that other VCF attendies may be very near. Since a 7 preceeds a room number, give 7615 a ring. The wife and I are looking to grab a quick dinner, and some company could be nice. David Otherwise I will see you all in the morning. From eric at redrouteone.net Thu Jul 15 22:00:16 2004 From: eric at redrouteone.net (Eric Moody) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: simh and rt11 primer. Message-ID: <9E9931B61C3E74468AD7682A0C699376053F97@redoctober.redrouteone.local> I was using boot rl0. That is what I get for doing things when I am tired. I did not use PUTR to create the disk file just at. That is likely the source of my problem. This should get me a ways down the road. Eric From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Jul 15 22:41:38 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chip set say?! Message-ID: <002d01c46ae6$ccb2aaa0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chip set say?! Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 15 23:23:06 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Monitor deflection magnets; In-Reply-To: <200407160030.i6G0Ubn18868@mwave.heeltoe.com> from "Brad Parker" at Jul 15, 4 08:30:37 pm Message-ID: > > > Tony Duell wrote: > >> > >> (note: "specialty" = designed for a specific computer with a special ECL > > > >What machine? > > A Symbolics Lisp Machine. Very nice toy! Is the monitor actually made by Symbolics, or is it a standard chassis (e.g. Moniterm or somebody like that)? -tony From spc at conman.org Fri Jul 16 00:02:34 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Modern Electronics (was Re: List charter mods & headcount... ; In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jul 14, 2004 11:47:16 PM Message-ID: <20040716050234.F32F8109AD6A@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Tony Duell once stated: > > I find I can't use anything but an RPN calculator now. It's just so much > simpler once you've learnt it. That's why I have a few dozen HPs (LED and > LCD models). I recently came across a good site that describes how to use one: http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/square/gd86/slides.htm and I've been having fun using the one slide ruler I have, getting a feel for how to use it. -spc (it's neat how they work ... ) From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jul 16 00:55:15 2004 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor In-Reply-To: <52c6cdce4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> References: <52c6cdce4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jul 2004, Philip Pemberton wrote: > I'm still trying to find a way to make a hole in a plastic panel to > mount a BNC properly. I failed miserably on the frequency counter I made > - the BNC connector spins while you're trying to plug a probe in. Oops. There are punches available. They aren't cheap brand new, but turn up surplus from time to time. -Toth From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Jul 16 00:58:51 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Amplifiers? References: Message-ID: <40F76E9B.2050809@jetnet.ab.ca> David V. Corbin wrote: > In recent years, a number of audio equipment manufacturers have released DSP > based products that mimic the behaviour of specific tube based amplifiers. > While some purists disagree, the majority of blind sound tests have > confirmed that these are indistinguasible from the originals to the human > (trained) ear. > > So a "perfect" amplifier is not really what is desired in most conditions. > Except for me of course. I want a transparent amp but not a colored one. Amps I am finding out have different factors that you can't find out in regular sales information. I listen to music 24/7 so a less distorion is required. Things like a regulated power supply is something few amps have. Qaulity components is a second factor. Good music is a third factor from a good source like new LP's. CD's have too low a sampling rate for good music. Ben. Some intersting thoughts for reading here. http://www.nutshellhifi.com/index.html From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jul 16 04:46:12 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1089971172.17549.15.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-07-15 at 23:08, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > I'm still trying to find a way to make a hole in a plastic panel to mount a > > Plastic is difficult because you can't really use a punch/die (there is a > BNC punch for the RS rack-and-pinion press, but that system is not > cheap!). For something like that I'd probably cut a round hole in the plastic, but cut / file a hole with the right key into a strip of aluminium and mount it directly behind the hole in the plastic. The plastic can be kept nice and neat that way, whilst it doesn't matter if the aluminium hole looks a bit shabby. That or make a little recess in the underside of the plastic near to the hole, and use a piece of u-shaped metal to stop the connector rotating - one arm of the 'u' sits in the recess and the other fills the hole for the BNC connector where the flat is on the connector. A washer on the stem of the BNC will stop the u-shaped piece falling out when everything's screwed down. cheers, Jules From m.wickens at rhodium-consulting.com Fri Jul 16 05:23:50 2004 From: m.wickens at rhodium-consulting.com (Mark Wickens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Booting a VAXstation 4000 VLC off the hobbyist boot CD-ROM In-Reply-To: <8A209F13-D67A-11D8-BEA5-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> Message-ID: <001501c46b1e$fcf8c810$7104a8c0@max> David, Yes, I got this with the Pioneer drive - I'm presuming it just hangs after the 'Verification in progress' text. This is because your drive is simply not compatible with the VAX. Refer to my previous email. Check the following URL: http://sites.inka.de/pcde/help/dec-cdrom-list.txt For a list of successes. Regards, Mark. p.s. the drive will work file for normal file accesses - it is just installation that is a problem (I now have 3 scsi drives!!) Mark Wickens Rhodium Consulting Ltd -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of David Betz Sent: 15 July 2004 17:18 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Booting a VAXstation 4000 VLC off the hobbyist boot CD-ROM I borrowed a Plextor drive model PX-45CS and it boots standalone backup and presents me with a '$' prompt. If I type the restore command: $ backup/image dka400:vms072.b/save dka0: I get the following message and nothing else: %SYSTEM-I-MOUNTVER, SABKUP$DKA400: is offline. Mount verification in progress. Does anyone have any idea how to get past this? Thanks, David On Jul 15, 2004, at 5:06 AM, Mark Wickens wrote: > David, > > The joys of SCSI CDROMs and VAXes ;) Are you sure you really want to > know > :-o > > I had the same thing with a VAXstation 4000/90 recently. The problem is > that in order to boot off a CDROM the VAX requires that the drive be > set > in 512 bytes/sector mode. This will be configured by a jumper on the > drive itself. You may well find that the drive does not support this > mode, as most PC-compatible drives use 2K bytes/sector. Also, not all > SCSI cdrom drives are made equal - I have a Pioneer drive which > supports > 512 bytes/sector but still doesn't boot correctly. > > In the case where it doesn't work I would suggest rather than messing > around trying drives you get yourself a Plextor UltraPlex 40x drive > (they can be picked up off ebay, I would say that a 32x drive would > also > work but don't quote me on this) - this is the only type of drive that > has worked for me. > > Persevere though - it is worth it - I recently got to the stage where > I'm into DECwindows and it is scary seeing it after nearly 12 years > since I saw it last. > > Mark. > > Mark Wickens > Rhodium Consulting Ltd > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Antonio Carlini > Sent: 14 July 2004 23:29 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: RE: Booting a VAXstation 4000 VLC off the hobbyist boot CD-ROM > >> I have my VAXstation 4000 VLC running to the ">>>" prompt and would >> like to boot the hobbyist CD-ROM to install VMS on the hard drive but >> I'm having trouble getting the CD-ROM to boot. If I type >> 'boot dka400' >> at the prompt, the CD-ROM spins up and I get the text "-DKA400" >> displayed on the console but then I get the ">>>" prompt again. Can >> anyone tell me why that would happen? I'm using a NEC CDR-1910A SCSI >> CD-ROM drive set to SCSI ID 4. > > I'm assuming that you are using a VAX VMS CD and not an > Alpha one :-) (And that it's the OS one and not one of > the layered products ones ...) > > Some of the later CDs (V6.1 onwards or so) allow > you to boot to OpenVMS rather than SA BACKUP: > > So something like: > > B/R5:10000000 DKA400: > > may work. If you have another working VMS box > you can verify that the CD you have does indeed > have a [SYS1] root. > > "B DKA400:" should have booted SA BACKUP, so > if it didn't are you sure that: > - you used the right CD (what part number and OS version is it)? > - that your CD actually is DKA400: (SHOW DEVICE should help here) > - that your CD supports 512-byte blocks and is configured to do so > (what CD is it)? > > Antonio > > > -- > > --------------- > > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > > > From m.wickens at rhodium-consulting.com Fri Jul 16 05:26:51 2004 From: m.wickens at rhodium-consulting.com (Mark Wickens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Modern Electronics (was Re: List charter mods & headcount... ; In-Reply-To: <20040716050234.F32F8109AD6A@swift.conman.org> Message-ID: <001601c46b1f$689044e0$7104a8c0@max> If you learn to fly you use a 'computer' which is basically a circular slide rule. I can't believe how useful and easy to use it is, once you get past the what-goes-where. Mark. Mark Wickens Rhodium Consulting Ltd -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner Sent: 16 July 2004 06:03 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Modern Electronics (was Re: List charter mods & headcount... ; It was thus said that the Great Tony Duell once stated: > > I find I can't use anything but an RPN calculator now. It's just so much > simpler once you've learnt it. That's why I have a few dozen HPs (LED and > LCD models). I recently came across a good site that describes how to use one: http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/square/gd86/slides.htm and I've been having fun using the one slide ruler I have, getting a feel for how to use it. -spc (it's neat how they work ... ) From brad at heeltoe.com Fri Jul 16 05:34:00 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Monitor deflection magnets; In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 16 Jul 2004 05:23:06 BST." Message-ID: <200407161034.i6GAY0n22390@mwave.heeltoe.com> Tony Duell wrote: > >Is the monitor actually made by Symbolics, or is it a standard chassis >(e.g. Moniterm or somebody like that)? It's made by Symbolics. Inside is a off-the-shelf p/s, off-the-shelf HV supply, a custom deflection board, and a custom micro/interface board. -brad From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Fri Jul 16 07:47:41 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Booting a VAXstation 4000 VLC off the hobbyist boot CD-ROM In-Reply-To: References: <003501c46a8d$b7cd6200$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <40F7CE6D.2050901@ntlworld.com> I thought you had an apple 300 drive. These are on the list of dec working drives. Dan From ed at groenenberg.net Fri Jul 16 08:48:39 2004 From: ed at groenenberg.net (Ed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: OT: Startrek appartment Message-ID: <33049.192.18.200.10.1089985719.squirrel@192.18.200.10> A bit hefty pricetag, but have a look at this auction. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2397756436 and no, I'm not affiliated to the seller..... From spedraja at ono.com Fri Jul 16 09:19:24 2004 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Startrek appartment References: <33049.192.18.200.10.1089985719.squirrel@192.18.200.10> Message-ID: <001d01bc53e0$3b46b2c0$0f02a8c0@WorkGroup> Uh... I don't know what to say. How goes dressed the service ? Sergio ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed To: Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 3:48 PM Subject: OT: Startrek appartment > > A bit hefty pricetag, but have a look at this auction. > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2397756436 > > and no, I'm not affiliated to the seller..... From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Jul 16 09:30:22 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: OT: Startrek appartment In-Reply-To: <33049.192.18.200.10.1089985719.squirrel@192.18.200.10> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Jul 2004, Ed wrote: > > A bit hefty pricetag, but have a look at this auction. > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2397756436 > > and no, I'm not affiliated to the seller..... Ed, you're scaring me, and you know I'm not easily scared... --f From jbmcb at hotmail.com Fri Jul 16 09:36:05 2004 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Amplifiers? References: <40F76E9B.2050809@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: Here's some more reading on amplifiers, and "HiFi Mysticism" http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread/t-12752-p-6.html http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/t.pl?f=general&m=311853 Both sites are great for all sorts of information on HiFi, from both subjective and objective camps. Personally, and all other factors being equal (Good quality components, not state of the art but not broken designs, either) I find the factors affecting the sound break down like this: 40% speakers/room accoustics 50% source material 10% everything else (system components, AC quality, etc...) Keeping things quasi-on-topic, I've decided it's time to build a show system, with blinkenlights and excessive switches and knobs and everything. I've settled on the AOpen AX4GE Tube-G motherboard, if for no other reason it's probably the first computer to have a tube on the mainboard since the UNIVAC days. I can't find where to buy these beasts, however, so does anyone know where to find maybe 1-2 year old computer surplus or closeouts? For further retro-fun, I'm planning on putting in a POST code analyzer with big LED display on the front of the case (ala IBM RS/6000 systems), one of those retro-looking fan controllers, and Corsair XMS memory with LED status indicators. Window on the side, of course :) Then I'll run Linux on it with hercules and a fullscreen 3270 emulator plugged into OS/360. It'll be fun to run at lan parties :) PS: My system- Sumiko turntable, Sonic Frontiers Line 1 preamp, NAD 214 amp, Audio Alchemy ACD1 CD player, Denon DVD-1600 DVD player, Magnepan MG-1.4 speakers, homebrew phono preamp and AC filters. Almost all used, sounds fantastic. ----- Original Message ----- From: "ben franchuk" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 1:58 AM Subject: Re: Amplifiers? > Except for me of course. I want a transparent amp but not a colored one. > Amps I am finding out have different factors that you can't find out in > regular sales information. I listen to music 24/7 so a less distorion is > required. Things like a regulated power supply is something few amps > have. Qaulity components is a second factor. Good music is a third > factor from a good source like new LP's. CD's have too low a sampling > rate for good music. > Ben. > Some intersting thoughts for reading here. > http://www.nutshellhifi.com/index.html > From bob at jfcl.com Fri Jul 16 11:01:17 2004 From: bob at jfcl.com (Robert Armstrong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Free shipping on SBC6120/PDP-8 Kits for VCF weekend! Message-ID: <001001c46b4e$241dcb50$d802010a@LIFEBOOK> Guys, In case you haven't heard, this weekend VCF/East will be held in Boston for the 2nd year. If you live in the area and have the chance to go, I recommend it! http://vintage.org/2004/east/ Spare Time Gizmos will be there with our "Build your own PDP-8 from a kit!" kit, the SBC6120 http://sbc6120.SpareTimeGizmos.com and in honor of VCF/East we'll be giving free shipping to anybody, anywhere in the world, who orders any SBC6120 parts or kits this weekend. Just place your order thru our online store, http://store.SpareTimeGizmos.com anytime this weekend and pay via PayPal and you won't be charged for shipping. Bob Armstrong From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jul 16 12:38:39 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor In-Reply-To: Jules Richardson "Re: Mitsubishi Monitor" (Jul 16, 9:46) References: <1089971172.17549.15.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <10407161838.ZM16928@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 16, 9:46, Jules Richardson wrote: > For something like that I'd probably cut a round hole in the plastic, > but cut / file a hole with the right key into a strip of aluminium and > mount it directly behind the hole in the plastic. The plastic can be > kept nice and neat that way, whilst it doesn't matter if the aluminium > hole looks a bit shabby. The connector flange will hide any rough edges so that just makes twice as much work. > That or make a little recess in the underside of the plastic near to the > hole, and use a piece of u-shaped metal to stop the connector rotating One way I've seen is to drill a round hole, then file one "side" of it out into a square. Then put a washer on the back of the BNC, but bent over so that it fits the flat on the BNC and also fits the squared-out part of the hole. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jul 16 12:46:19 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: OT: Startrek appartment In-Reply-To: "Fred N. van Kempen" "Re: OT: Startrek appartment" (Jul 16, 16:30) References: Message-ID: <10407161846.ZM16962@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 16, 16:30, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Fri, 16 Jul 2004, Ed wrote: > > > > A bit hefty pricetag, but have a look at this auction. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2397756436 > Ed, you're scaring me, and you know I'm not easily scared... Me too -- Ed's going to be visiting here a couple of days after the auction ends :-) Ed, you know that apartment is on your route to here, only a couple of hours away? Odd that it's a UK auction but priced in US$, though. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jbmcb at hotmail.com Fri Jul 16 13:30:59 2004 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: OT: Startrek appartment References: <10407161846.ZM16962@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Turnbull" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 1:46 PM Subject: Re: OT: Startrek appartment > > Odd that it's a UK auction but priced in US$, though. > Us Yanks have the cash, we'll buy it and have it heli-lifted over the pond. I'm gonna install it in my garden shed between the pool and the forrest-golf course :) Useful tip in every email campaign (Started by me, now) To save battery life on your Linux laptop (Kernels > 2.4): echo 1 > /proc/sys/vm/laptop_mode (Turns off disk cache flushing) swapoff /dev/*Your swap partition* (Make sure you have enough RAM first!) hdparm -S # -> delay before HD spindown, in multiples of 5 seconds. I use 48, which is 4 minutes. Also, turn off syslog and cron daemons to prevent them from starting up and hitting the drive. From ed at groenenberg.net Fri Jul 16 14:46:08 2004 From: ed at groenenberg.net (Ed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: OT: Startrek apartment In-Reply-To: <10407161846.ZM16962@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10407161846.ZM16962@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <42421.192.168.1.1.1090007168.squirrel@192.168.1.1> On Vr, 16 juli, 2004 7:46 pm, Pete Turnbull zei: > On Jul 16, 16:30, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >> On Fri, 16 Jul 2004, Ed wrote: >> > >> > A bit hefty pricetag, but have a look at this auction. >> > >> > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2397756436 > >> Ed, you're scaring me, and you know I'm not easily scared... > > Me too -- Ed's going to be visiting here a couple of days after the > auction ends :-) Ed, you know that apartment is on your route to > here, only a couple of hours away? > Really? Maybe I should .......:) From d-gordon at sbcglobal.net Fri Jul 16 15:09:37 2004 From: d-gordon at sbcglobal.net (d-gordon@sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000b01c46b70$d42cc6f0$0402a8c0@D1> You are sure that both the DE connectors have 15 pins. If one of them had 9 pins, that could certainly be a digital input. Yes, I triple checked it, there are definitely (2) of the 15 pin connectors and they are black. ------------- >>>> switch says something different. The first says the number 8, the second >>>> "16 SAT." and "16 PAS", the third "32". To me it doesn't make sense. For This sounds like 3 bits (8 colours), 4 bits (16 colours, SATurated or PAStel), or 5 bits (32 colours). Several machiens used 3 or 4 bit digital colour outputs. I've never come across a 5 bit output, though. Ummm... I did make one mistake, and that is that the final pair of DIP switches are labled "64", rather than 32. The rest are exactly as I stated. Also the monitor does appear to be for the US market and manufactured in Dec 1985. It says 220V-240V by the plug, but it says both the 100V-120V and the 220V-240V on the large label on the back. I am wondering if it will work on 110V? The problem is that I do not see a switch to change from 110 to 220, like some other devices have. I don't have 220V access here. I can email you a picture of the monitor connections, if that would help. -tony From marvin at rain.org Fri Jul 16 15:18:49 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: FS - Motorola MVME 761-001 Message-ID: <40F83829.6B8F3A60@rain.org> Still getting rid of *small* stuff :) I can easily ship. This 1996 MVME 761-001 module is untested with condition unknown. $15.00 including USPS Priority Mail w/ delivery confirmation shipping in the US. International shipping will be higher. From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Jul 16 18:02:14 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: OT: Startrek apartment In-Reply-To: <42421.192.168.1.1.1090007168.squirrel@192.168.1.1> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Jul 2004, Ed wrote: > >> Ed, you're scaring me, and you know I'm not easily scared... > > > > Me too -- Ed's going to be visiting here a couple of days after the > > auction ends :-) Ed, you know that apartment is on your route to > > here, only a couple of hours away? > > Really? Maybe I should .......:) Ed, your kittycat will *not* like being beamed into her litterbox, she probably prefers walking over to it. Really. Tis not the techno-type kitty... --f From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 16 18:08:11 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Modern Electronics (was Re: List charter mods & headcount... ; In-Reply-To: <20040716050234.F32F8109AD6A@swift.conman.org> from "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" at Jul 16, 4 01:02:34 am Message-ID: > > I find I can't use anything but an RPN calculator now. It's just so much > > simpler once you've learnt it. That's why I have a few dozen HPs (LED and > > LCD models). > > I recently came across a good site that describes how to use one: > > http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/square/gd86/slides.htm I remember reading the HP41 user manaul for about 1 hour some 20-odd years ago, and thinking 'This is obvious and beautiful'. I never went back :-) > > and I've been having fun using the one slide ruler I have, getting a feel > for how to use it. Several books on slide rules have recently been reprinted. I really must learn to use one quickly (I understand _how_ they work, and therefore how to use one, but I don't know all the tricks). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 16 18:12:35 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor In-Reply-To: <000b01c46b70$d42cc6f0$0402a8c0@D1> from "d-gordon@sbcglobal.net" at Jul 16, 4 01:09:37 pm Message-ID: > This sounds like 3 bits (8 colours), 4 bits (16 colours, > SATurated or > PAStel), or 5 bits (32 colours). Several machiens used 3 or 4 bit digital > colour outputs. I've never come > across a 5 bit output, though. > > Ummm... I did make one mistake, and that is that the final > pair of DIP switches are labled "64", rather than 32. The rest are exactly Oh, that's 6 bits (64 colours). EGA used that system (2 bits per colour signal). This sounds like a monitor that would work with any of the then-common PC video standards, and then some others. It probably won't do the later higher-resolution super-VGA modes, thouygh, and you may well need a special cable for each type of video input. > as I stated. Also the monitor does appear to be for the US market and > manufactured in Dec 1985. It says 220V-240V by the plug, but it says both > the 100V-120V and the 220V-240V on the large label on the back. I am > wondering if it will work on 110V? The problem is that I do not see a > switch to change from 110 to 220, like some other devices have. I don't I would be suprised if it was auto-switching (not that date). There may well be an internal link in the PSU area to select between 110 and 220 V. > have 220V access here. I can email you a picture of the monitor connections, > if that would help. No need, I know what DE15 and BNC sockets look like :-) -tony From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Fri Jul 16 19:00:27 2004 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Booting a VAXstation 4000 VLC off the hobbyist boot CD-ROM In-Reply-To: <40F7CE6D.2050901@ntlworld.com> References: <003501c46a8d$b7cd6200$5b01a8c0@flexpc> <40F7CE6D.2050901@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <4F73E612-D784-11D8-86F4-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> Yes, you're right that it is on the list of working drives. Unfortunately, mine doesn't work with my 4000 VLC. I'm not sure if it is a problem with the drive or my VAX. On Jul 16, 2004, at 8:47 AM, Dan Williams wrote: > I thought you had an apple 300 drive. These are on the list of dec > working drives. > > Dan > From shirker at mooli.org.uk Fri Jul 16 19:48:32 2004 From: shirker at mooli.org.uk (Shirker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Jul 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > [1] Bonus points for people who know what BNC stands for.... Ha! An opportunity to use this otherwise-completely-useless piece of knowledge that I read (mumble) years ago in an electronics magazine and my brain filed under "remember this, it'll come in useful someday" :) Bayonet Neill-Concelmann (sp?) Ed. From dvcorbin at optonline.net Fri Jul 16 19:56:03 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: VCF Update!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>> I remember reading the HP41 user manaul There is actually an HP41 calculator here at VCF! First day was really good here Great time putting names and faces together. David From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri Jul 16 20:15:43 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: VCF Update!! References: Message-ID: <001001c46b9b$956bf640$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David V. Corbin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 8:56 PM Subject: VCF Update!! > >>> I remember reading the HP41 user manaul > > There is actually an HP41 calculator here at VCF! > > First day was really good here Great time putting names and faces together. > > David > I hope you guys are going to post some pictures for those who didn't go. From esharpe at uswest.net Fri Jul 16 20:16:19 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: VCF Update!! References: Message-ID: <001401c46b9b$aac72fa0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> tell us that could not make it more details! ed sharpe! ----- Original Message ----- From: "David V. Corbin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 5:56 PM Subject: VCF Update!! > >>> I remember reading the HP41 user manaul > > There is actually an HP41 calculator here at VCF! > > First day was really good here Great time putting names and faces together. > > David > > From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Jul 16 20:27:14 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0, Day one. References: <200407152232.i6FMWGE17915@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <40F88072.7000203@tiac.net> First off, I'd like to thank all the people who worked to put this together formally, and also a very special thank you to all those who just showed up and lent a hand! I'm very impressed with this years event overall. It seems to me we had a very different mix of people looking at the exhibits, as compated to VCF East 1.0. I had the oppertunity to spend some time talking with a younger programmer who worked at Sun. His experiance in the modern software world left him rather impressed at the sight of a running minicomputer that was running totally home-grown software, from the device drivers up to the file system. He really took the time to think and ask some excellent questions about the process of writing a O/S and programming language for a machine without an already running O/S, and my reasons for building a native ATA disk controller for my old CPU's. From his perspecitive, this is something thats nearly impractical with modern hardware. How do you bootstrap a workstation without even BIOS code or low-level drivers in ROM? In hindsight, I wish I'd halted the machine, and shown him how to enter binary machine code from the front panel, and the very basics of bootstrapping such a machine. I found it facinating to see how much the very concept of a computer has changed since the early days. I think I gained a better understanding of the evolution of machines than I'd had before I'd been exposed to his perspecitve. There was also a good deal of good deals going on in the parking lot and hallways. I did miss a few exhibits from the last VCF East, I was really looking forward to seeing spacewar running on the Imlac and DPS-116(?). Would anyone have sourcecode for Spacewar, for any old mini? I'd love to port it to my HP's. From wacarder at usit.net Fri Jul 16 20:37:04 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: VCF Update!! In-Reply-To: <001001c46b9b$956bf640$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Teo Zenios Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 9:16 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: VCF Update!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "David V. Corbin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 8:56 PM Subject: VCF Update!! > >>> I remember reading the HP41 user manaul > > There is actually an HP41 calculator here at VCF! > > First day was really good here Great time putting names and faces together. > > David > I hope you guys are going to post some pictures for those who didn't go. --> Yeah, pictures with faces (and of the exhibits, etc.) Ashley From wacarder at usit.net Fri Jul 16 20:44:08 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0, Day one. In-Reply-To: <40F88072.7000203@tiac.net> Message-ID: I have various BASIC versions of Spacewar and spinoffs that ran on our PDP-11/40. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bob Shannon Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 9:27 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: VCF East 2.0, Day one. First off, I'd like to thank all the people who worked to put this together formally, and also a very special thank you to all those who just showed up and lent a hand! I'm very impressed with this years event overall. It seems to me we had a very different mix of people looking at the exhibits, as compated to VCF East 1.0. I had the oppertunity to spend some time talking with a younger programmer who worked at Sun. His experiance in the modern software world left him rather impressed at the sight of a running minicomputer that was running totally home-grown software, from the device drivers up to the file system. He really took the time to think and ask some excellent questions about the process of writing a O/S and programming language for a machine without an already running O/S, and my reasons for building a native ATA disk controller for my old CPU's. From his perspecitive, this is something thats nearly impractical with modern hardware. How do you bootstrap a workstation without even BIOS code or low-level drivers in ROM? In hindsight, I wish I'd halted the machine, and shown him how to enter binary machine code from the front panel, and the very basics of bootstrapping such a machine. I found it facinating to see how much the very concept of a computer has changed since the early days. I think I gained a better understanding of the evolution of machines than I'd had before I'd been exposed to his perspecitve. There was also a good deal of good deals going on in the parking lot and hallways. I did miss a few exhibits from the last VCF East, I was really looking forward to seeing spacewar running on the Imlac and DPS-116(?). Would anyone have sourcecode for Spacewar, for any old mini? I'd love to port it to my HP's. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 16 21:00:02 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0, Day one. In-Reply-To: from "Ashley Carder" at Jul 16, 2004 09:44:08 PM Message-ID: <200407170200.i6H203bq012841@onyx.spiritone.com> > I have various BASIC versions of Spacewar and spinoffs that ran on > our PDP-11/40. Really? Did you have some sort of graphics adapter hooked up to the /40? What OS did they run on? Zane From wacarder at usit.net Fri Jul 16 21:18:09 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0, Day one. In-Reply-To: <200407170200.i6H203bq012841@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: RSTS/E. The early versions were text based and you could run them on an LA36 DecWriter or ASR-33 teletype. A friend of mine converted one to run on a VT50 terminal where it would update the screen. I might be thinking of a star trek game because the VT50 version was called TVTREK.BAS, but I think one of the text based games was called SPACWR.BAS. I have old program listings from 1978 and I think I have soft copies of some of these. I'll check. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 10:00 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: VCF East 2.0, Day one. > I have various BASIC versions of Spacewar and spinoffs that ran on > our PDP-11/40. Really? Did you have some sort of graphics adapter hooked up to the /40? What OS did they run on? Zane From aek at spies.com Fri Jul 16 21:44:15 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Source for spacewar Message-ID: <20040717024415.16C883C6B@spies.com> > Would anyone have sourcecode for Spacewar, for any old mini? Steve Russell's original is up on bitsavers under DEC/pdp1 I would hope someone still has the sources for the PDP12 version. Eric Smith just retyped the version that was in Byte in 1978. here's the full url for the original. http://bitsavers.org/DEC/pdp1/papertapeImages/20031202/SteveRussell_box1/_text/ From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Jul 16 23:55:47 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:19 2005 Subject: Amplifiers? References: <40F76E9B.2050809@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <40F8B153.7000502@jetnet.ab.ca> Jason McBrien wrote: > Here's some more reading on amplifiers, and "HiFi Mysticism" > http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread/t-12752-p-6.html > http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/t.pl?f=general&m=311853 > > Both sites are great for all sorts of information on HiFi, from both > subjective and objective camps. > > Personally, and all other factors being equal (Good quality components, not > state of the art but not broken designs, either) I find the factors > affecting the sound break down like this: > > 40% speakers/room accoustics > 50% source material > 10% everything else (system components, AC quality, etc...) > > Keeping things quasi-on-topic, I've decided it's time to build a show > system, with blinkenlights and excessive switches and knobs and everything. > I've settled on the AOpen AX4GE Tube-G motherboard, if for no other reason > it's probably the first computer to have a tube on the mainboard since the > UNIVAC days. I can't find where to buy these beasts, however, so does anyone > know where to find maybe 1-2 year old computer surplus or closeouts? For > further retro-fun, I'm planning on putting in a POST code analyzer with big > LED display on the front of the case (ala IBM RS/6000 systems), one of those > retro-looking fan controllers, and Corsair XMS memory with LED status > indicators. Window on the side, of course :) Then I'll run Linux on it with > hercules and a fullscreen 3270 emulator plugged into OS/360. It'll be fun to > run at lan parties :) > > PS: My system- Sumiko turntable, Sonic Frontiers Line 1 preamp, NAD 214 amp, > Audio Alchemy ACD1 CD player, Denon DVD-1600 DVD player, Magnepan MG-1.4 > speakers, homebrew phono preamp and AC filters. Almost all used, sounds > fantastic. Well you forgot one thing ... Room Accoustics http://mywebpages.comcast.net/kidder/Audio/Room/PANEL/Panels.htm http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/a.htm http://ic.net/~jtgale/diy2.htm Ben. PS: A real computer with the blinking lights. http://timefracture.org/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jul 17 02:19:35 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0, Day one. In-Reply-To: "Ashley Carder" "RE: VCF East 2.0, Day one." (Jul 16, 22:18) References: Message-ID: <10407170819.ZM17433@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 16, 22:18, Ashley Carder wrote: > RSTS/E. The early versions were text based and you could run them on > an LA36 DecWriter or ASR-33 teletype. A friend of mine converted one > to run on a VT50 terminal where it would update the screen. > > I might be thinking of a star trek game because the VT50 version was > called TVTREK.BAS, but I think one of the text based games was called > SPACWR.BAS. I have old program listings from 1978 and I think I have > soft copies of some of these. I'll check. SPACWR.BAS is a version of Star Trek, published by David Ahl in "101 BASIC Computer Games". It's not related to Spacewar, which isn't text-based. There is a version of Spacewar for PDP-11, though, with a GT40. I think Megan has a copy, and I think it runs under RT-11. I must fix my GT40 and do something about that... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From d-gordon at sbcglobal.net Sat Jul 17 04:41:28 2004 From: d-gordon at sbcglobal.net (d-gordon@sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001401c46be2$3c0618f0$0402a8c0@D1> >>> This sounds like a monitor that would work with any of the then-common PC video standards, and then some others. It probably won't do the later higher-resolution super-VGA modes, thouygh, and you may well need a special cable for each type of video input. Thanks for all your help. It would seem that all that can be figured out has been, and the next step is to plug it in and try it on a system. Next question, is "will I need a computer with a significant amount of video memory?" I have a couple of old Compaq 386s with 1 and 2 Mb video memory cards. I am not sure, but I thought since it was a such a huge 20" monitor, maybe I need it. Maybe you can advise me? Or can I just plug it into a new Pentiium 4 system and set the monitor resolution lower? Or do new computes not work with VGA monitors, if that's what it is? I'll also try it on 110V and see if it works, I guess it can't hurt anything to go under voltage, compared to going over if the setting just happens to be set at 110V. -Dave From dave04a at dunfield.com Sat Jul 17 05:55:01 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: Help with Apple2 clone "Orange Peel" Message-ID: <20040717105500.FCWL2991.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Hi, I am trying to resurrect a dead Apple2 clone for a friend. This machine is called "Orange Peel", and is packaged as a small rectangular box with three slots accessable on one end by sliding back the top, and a separate keyboard. I believe the machine is running, at least it clears video memory to zero (familier '@' pattern) on powerup, but goes no further - the ROM/RAM configuration seems odd: The main board contains 8 4564 DRAM's along with video and I/O circuitry etc. The CPU lives on a separate board which is suspended above the mainboard on long, hard-to-insert pins. The CPU board has 7 sockets. At one end is a single 2716 EPROM chip labled "New boot", near the other end of the line is a label on the board which reads "2kb/2716" - this suggests that the whole line should be ROM's (which would be consistant with other apples), however the remaining sockets contain 5517 CMOS RAM's !!! - clearly there is no other code on this board. Inside the "New Boot" ROM, the only strings I can see are: FBPASIC OR INTBASIC FILE REQUIRED INSERT APPLICATION DISC AND PRESS ESC This suggests that it loads basic from disk and would not have it in ROM. So - I have a bit of a paradox : the "2kb/2716" label suggests ROM's, and the 64k of RAM on the mainboard also indicates that all the RAM is on the lower board, however the ROM strings suggest that this may be the only ROM. Perhaps it loads code from the disk into "Pseudo-ROM" 5517 bank? (If so, anyone got the disk code)? The fact that several of the riser pins were not inserted and bent under the CPU board indicates that someone with low skills "worked" on this system at one point. The fact that the attached power cord was cut off indicates that it was given up on ... so I cannot assume that it is configured correctly. Is anyone familier with this system? Can anyone tell me if the CPU board accepts RAM or if it should be ROM? If so, does anyone have the proper code? If it loads the RAM's from disk, does anyone have the disk? Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From rcini at optonline.net Sat Jul 17 10:50:44 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: Early timesharing/BBS systems Message-ID: <002601c46c15$d279d7d0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Hello, all: I was at VCFe yesterday and I have to say that the speakers and demonstrations were great. Sellam did a fantastic job and where the event was located at the Sun facilities worked out perfectly. One demo that I missed was the ARPANET dial-up simulation which wasn't there when I left at 3:30. Anyway, this demo brings-up an interesting question. What kind of dial-up systems existed in the 70's before consumer-oriented services like CompuServe? I remember the DowJones and CompuServe sign-up packs at RadioShack in maybe 1979 (I joined CIS in 1988. I even remember my ID: 70153,3367). I also remember in high school (around 1983) using a DECwriter to dial into the timesharing computer (at 300 baud; I don't know the host system) at one of the local universities. Just curious. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Sat Jul 17 11:24:49 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: Early timesharing/BBS systems In-Reply-To: <002601c46c15$d279d7d0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> References: <002601c46c15$d279d7d0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.0.20040717172058.03952910@pop.freeserve.net> At 16:50 17/07/2004, you wrote: > Anyway, this demo brings-up an interesting question. What kind of > dial-up >systems existed in the 70's before consumer-oriented services like >CompuServe? I remember the DowJones and CompuServe sign-up packs at >RadioShack in maybe 1979 (I joined CIS in 1988. I even remember my ID: >70153,3367). I also remember in high school (around 1983) using a DECwriter >to dial into the timesharing computer (at 300 baud; I don't know the host >system) at one of the local universities. I was thinking of Prestel, a service I used in the early '80s. A google for information it turned up: http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/carlson/timeline.shtml "The online timeline - A capsule history of online news and information systems" Looks like it will answer your question to some extend :-) Rob From rhahm at nycap.rr.com Sat Jul 17 11:50:26 2004 From: rhahm at nycap.rr.com (RHahm) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: HP 9915A Message-ID: I recently aquired an HP 9915A computer/calculator which is the industrial version of the HP85. Does anyone have the owner's manual for this. If any one has the keyboard and would like to sell it or trade for it email me. Also anyone has any series 80 software they want to trade email me. Thanks RH From aek at spies.com Sat Jul 17 12:09:26 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: Early timesharing/BBS systems Message-ID: <20040717170926.E53393C6C@spies.com> This is an area I'm working on in trying to bring some of these systems back to life through simulation. MIT had a timeharing PDP-1 system, as well as CTSS on a modified 7090 in the early 60's. BBN also had timesharing on a PDP-1. CTSS's replacement was Multics. UC Berkeley modified an SDS 930 to add memory protection and developed the GENIE timesharing system in the mid 60's. SDS sold the 940, as the modified 930 was called with modified versions of the GENIE software. The most well known 940 systems were at SRI (which eventually was sold to the folks who did the Community Memory Project), BBN, and Tymshare. Tymshare migrated from their 940s to DEC10's in the 70's. The people who did the 940 at UCB started Berkeley Computer Corporation and produced one prototype of their BCC500 system, which was moved to the University of Hawaii after BCC folded, and many of the people formed the core of the computer group at PARC. Dartmouth produced their BASIC timesharing system in the mid 60's, about the same time as GENIE. IBM produced TSS-360, the less said about that, the better.. DEC timesharing monitors for the PDP-6 evolved into the timesharing monitor on the PDP-10, which later became TOPS-10. BBN's TENEX operating system for the PDP-10 later became TOPS-20. Smallish timesharing systems were also produced which included TSS/8 for the PDP-8, which was inspired by a phd thesis Gordon Bell supervised at CMU, which sort of evolved into RSTS (originally called EDUSYSTEM 100) and RSTS/E. From brad at heeltoe.com Sat Jul 17 12:42:30 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: Early timesharing/BBS systems In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 17 Jul 2004 11:50:44 EDT." <002601c46c15$d279d7d0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Message-ID: <200407171742.i6HHgUV32419@mwave.heeltoe.com> "Richard A. Cini" wrote: ... > Anyway, this demo brings-up an interesting question. What kind of dial- >up >systems existed in the 70's before consumer-oriented services like >CompuServe? There were probably a lot, but I remember "Call/370", which I think was one of the first commercial ones. In 1977/78 I recall using Anderson Jacobson 300 baud acoustic couplers (there's a entire story right there) and verious mechanical terminals, all very large. (but, able to fit in the back of a vw bus! :-) -brad From d-gordon at sbcglobal.net Sat Jul 17 13:00:34 2004 From: d-gordon at sbcglobal.net (d-gordon@sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: Apple iMAC G3 266Mhz upgrade In-Reply-To: <20040717170926.E53393C6C@spies.com> Message-ID: <002601c46c27$f51e6230$0402a8c0@D1> Hello: I just bought an Apple iMAC (266 Mhz) w/ 32Mb PC-66 SO-RAM, 528 L2 Cache. I have been a PC person, but have always wanted to learn more about MACs so that I could add it to my list of skills, since I am already expert on PC networking and support. Anyways, this little iMAC seems to work pretty good, but really has memory problems that I was not expecting, but appear to be normal for the system. I have gone to some of the MAC forums and I have read many complaints about how they handle memory. Basically, I have to continually close down programs, because I will get messages telling me that I need to close other programs in order to open the new one. I have had a 266Mhz PC, and I never had to do that so often, only rarely. What I am thinking of doing is adding new RAM, to upgrade it to 128 or 256Mb. Is someone here experienced with this machine. It's the tray loading G3 type, with OS version 8.51. I am not sure which firmware version. But the system settings say ROM version 1.5, which may refer to something else, I'm not sure. Where do I check? The reason I ask is because someone selling upgrade RAM on eBay told me that I can actually add up to 528 Mb RAM on that system, if I have a firmware upgrade to version 1.2. Thus, I need to figure out what version I have. I have also read in the forums that maybe adding additional RAM can cause the system to be unstable, if I use faster RAM than it is made for (for example PC133, or PC100 RAM). My manual says I need to use (2) PC66 RAM SO-DIMMs. The people trying to sell me new RAM say that I can safely upgrade my system all the way to 528 Mb RAM, and that I can use PC133 and PC100 type (2) x 128Mb or (1) x 256 Mb, in the bottom slot. This conflicts with my manual which says I need PC66, and max RAM upgrade is (2) x 128. This is a rather common computer, I think, so hopefully someone can please advise me on what to do with it. I have Photoshop 4.O and Illustrator on it, which are memory hogs. Anyways, my goal is to try and get rid of having to always shut down programs, and hopefully be able to use Photoshop. I have v4.0, and also a v6.0 upgrade. My last question is in regards to upgrading the OS to version 9.0 or higher. If I get the RAM upgrade, is this computer any good for upgrading to a higher OS version? I understand that I can use virtual PC (I have the software already), and install both. My goal here is not great speed but simply to learn the newer Operating Systems, maybe even OSX. Of course, I am trying to learn all about MACs by going through the learning curve of doing all this stuff, so I am not asking anyone to teach me, but I am only seeking answers to a couple questions regarding whether its practical to spend any money on this machine to upgrade it for my purposes? Or maybe someone has extra RAM they would like to sell me cheap for it? -Dave From aek at spies.com Sat Jul 17 13:09:22 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: Early timesharing/BBS systems Message-ID: <20040717180922.6F1073C6C@spies.com> There were probably a lot, but I remember "Call/370", which I think was one of the first commercial ones. == I have an Auerbach report on timesharing services which I'll try to dig up, which gives short company histories for many of the early commercial services. Most of the major computer companies were offering some service by the late 60's. Part of IBM's antitrust settlement with CDC was that CDC got IBM's service bureau operation. GE timsharing stuck around for a while. Tymeshare was one of the earliest independents, bootstrapping themselves and fixing tons of bugs in the GENIE code. I also forgot to mention HPs timeshared basic and 3000 systems, also from the very early 70s ( the 3000 being HP's 'real' timesharing machine, so they said) From spectre at floodgap.com Sat Jul 17 14:09:58 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: Apple iMAC G3 266Mhz upgrade In-Reply-To: <002601c46c27$f51e6230$0402a8c0@D1> from "d-gordon@sbcglobal.net" at "Jul 17, 4 11:00:34 am" Message-ID: <200407171909.MAA14520@floodgap.com> This is a rather off-topic, but: > I just bought an Apple iMAC (266 Mhz) w/ 32Mb PC-66 SO-RAM, 528 L2 > Cache. I have been a PC person, but have always wanted to learn more about > MACs so that I could add it to my list of skills, since I am already expert > on PC networking and support. Anyways, this little iMAC seems to work pretty > good, but really has memory problems that I was not expecting, but appear to > be normal for the system. I have gone to some of the MAC forums and I have > read many complaints about how they handle memory. Basically, I have to > continually close down programs, because I will get messages telling me that > I need to close other programs in order to open the new one. I have had a > 266Mhz PC, and I never had to do that so often, only rarely. You mention OS 8.5.1 (which is rather old, and there should be an OS 8.6 upgrade for download from Apple). If you use OS X, the old evil way of managing application memory goes away (except for Classic-mode applications). The old method of Mac memory management, a holdover from MultiFinder, is to give apps a fixed memory allocation when they start up. This is officially dead with Cocoa-native and Carbon-based apps in OS X. > What I am thinking of doing is adding new RAM, to upgrade it to 128 or > 256Mb. Is someone here experienced with this machine. It's the tray > loading G3 type, with OS version 8.51. I am not sure which firmware > version. But the system settings say ROM version 1.5, which may refer to > something else, I'm not sure. Where do I check? The reason I ask is because > someone selling upgrade RAM on eBay told me that I can actually add up to > 528 Mb RAM on that system, if I have a firmware upgrade to version 1.2. > Thus, I need to figure out what version I have. You can simply run this, and if you're not at 1.2, it will upgrade you there. http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=60384 > I have also read in the forums that maybe adding additional RAM can > cause the system to be unstable, if I use faster RAM than it is made for > (for example PC133, or PC100 RAM). My manual says I need to use (2) PC66 > RAM SO-DIMMs. The people trying to sell me new RAM say that I can safely > upgrade my system all the way to 528 Mb RAM, and that I can use PC133 and > PC100 type (2) x 128Mb or (1) x 256 Mb, in the bottom slot. This conflicts > with my manual which says I need PC66, and max RAM upgrade is (2) x 128. Apple usually undersold their systems' RAM maximums; I have a IIci running gleefully with 128MB SIMMs, and a friend of mine tricked his old 7300 out to 1GB, neither of which was originally envisioned for either one. Unfortunately, Macs are also notoriously finicky about their RAM. This is a nice page on generally upgrading a tray-loading iMac, including RAM: http://www.lowendmac.com/imacs/tray-up.html > My last question is in regards to upgrading the OS to version 9.0 or > higher. If I get the RAM upgrade, is this computer any good for upgrading > to a higher OS version? I understand that I can use virtual PC (I have the > software already), and install both. My goal here is not great speed but > simply to learn the newer Operating Systems, maybe even OSX. See the page above. Myself, if you find the memory issues that aggravating *and* you can easily upgrade to OS X native or Carbon apps, making the jump to OS X will serve you well (plus, it's Un*x). On the other hand, if all you're running is Classic apps, there's no point in going to OS X, though jumping to 9.1 or 9.2.2 would be a wise idea. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Never trust a computer you can't lift. ------------------------------------- From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Jul 17 15:29:30 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 (or ST?) joystick? Message-ID: <1090096170.18834.31.camel@weka.localdomain> Hi all, Anyone know if I can use a joystick on the Atari TT030? If so, what type, which port does it use etc. (and does anyone have the relevant port pinouts so I can wire up an adapter? I don't have an Atari-specific joystick, but I do have ones from various other machines kicking around) Given the ST compatibility, I assume it can be done... cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Jul 17 16:15:35 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: Commodore SX64 probs... Message-ID: <1090098934.18834.44.camel@weka.localdomain> I've got a pair of non-working Commodore SX64's here. One machine powers up, but the floppy drive light remains lit and I can hear the drive spinning continuously, and there's a 50% grey pattern filling the screen (i.e. pixels look to be alternating white/black). Actually, there's also short run of pixels middle-bottom of the screen which aren't illuminated at all. Pressing reset has no effect. Pressing caps-lock does result in the caps-lock light illuminating, but I don't know if that's a simple circuit hardwired to the key and doesn't go via the CPU... The second machine is totally dead - no activity whatsoever. There's a *very faint* humming noise from the monitor area, typical of a display that's at least getting power though - but on the CPU side of things no chips seem to be getting remotely warm, suggesting that there's no +5V. Before I start digging deeper, does the fault with the first machine sound familiar, and are there any common PSU faults which affect these systems? Plus, anyone have schematics they could scan? Be nice to get one of them going. One keyboard is damaged (plus I only have the one original keyboard cable), so it's only really viable to have one running, but I'd like to get to the bottom of what's up with both of them... cheers, Jules From sastevens at earthlink.net Sat Jul 17 16:18:41 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: FYI: Office Depot to recycle old PCs... In-Reply-To: <200407131903.PAA16135@wordstock.com> References: <20040713115246.O44619@newshell.lmi.net> <200407131903.PAA16135@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20040717161841.35319294.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:03:42 -0400 (edt) Bryan Pope wrote: > And thusly Fred Cisin spake: > > > > On Tue, 13 Jul 2004, Bryan Pope wrote: > > > http://www.cnn.com/money/2004/07/13/news/fortune500/recycle_pc/index.htm > > > > ... and what do you suppose their definition is of "recycling"? > > (Pentium >1 GHz; anything else or slower is "too obsolete" to > > Arrrgh!! A 1 Ghz machine is perfect for a MAME machine!! :-( > > I don't own a machine as fast as 1 GHz yet. I'll probably be plodding along on the skid of Dell Optiplexes I got this spring ($40 for aprox. 80 machines) for years to come. For 'ordinary use' of the form most people engage in a 500 MHz machine is still very suitable. The 'Manufacturer recycling' excitement being stirred up (heard a piece about it on NPR last week) is Dell and HP crushing useful machines in order to get them out of the market. They don't make much money from the 'hand-me-down' computer market. They (and Microsoft) want every user to be making payments on a shiney new box at all times. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 17 16:51:06 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0, Day one. In-Reply-To: <10407170819.ZM17433@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jul 17, 4 08:19:35 am Message-ID: > There is a version of Spacewar for PDP-11, though, with a GT40. I > think Megan has a copy, and I think it runs under RT-11. I must fix my > GT40 and do something about that... Having built [1] a GT40, I have a fair idea of how they work, and what the problems can be (yes, I made some mistakes that I had to sort out). Feel free to discuss it with me and I'll try to remember what goes on (it'll all come back to me when I look at the prints) [1] Seriously, I took a PDP11/05 in the 5.25" box, dismantled the backplane, cut the traces to the top 4 slots, and re-wrapped it to take the VT11 card set and an SPC slot. The order might not be the same as in a real GT40, but the thing works. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 17 16:54:47 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: Help with Apple2 clone "Orange Peel" In-Reply-To: <20040717105500.FCWL2991.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> from "Dave Dunfield" at Jul 17, 4 06:55:01 am Message-ID: > > This machine is called "Orange Peel", and is packaged as a > small rectangular box with three slots accessable on one > end by sliding back the top, and a separate keyboard. > I believe the machine is running, at least it clears video > memory to zero (familier '@' pattern) on powerup, but goes > no further - the ROM/RAM configuration seems odd: > > The main board contains 8 4564 DRAM's along with video > and I/O circuitry etc. > > The CPU lives on a separate board which is suspended above > the mainboard on long, hard-to-insert pins. > > The CPU board has 7 sockets. At one end is a single 2716 > EPROM chip labled "New boot", near the other end of the > line is a label on the board which reads "2kb/2716" - this > suggests that the whole line should be ROM's (which would > be consistant with other apples), however the remaining > sockets contain 5517 CMOS RAM's !!! - clearly there is no > other code on this board. > > Inside the "New Boot" ROM, the only strings I can see are: > > FBPASIC OR INTBASIC FILE REQUIRED > INSERT APPLICATION DISC AND PRESS ESC > > This suggests that it loads basic from disk and would not > have it in ROM. > > So - I have a bit of a paradox : the "2kb/2716" label suggests > ROM's, and the 64k of RAM on the mainboard also indicates that > all the RAM is on the lower board, however the ROM strings > suggest that this may be the only ROM. IIRC, a real Apple ][ has up to 64K RAM (48K on the mainboard, 16K on a language card) and some ROMs. The ROMs are bank-switched with the top 16K (Language card) RAM. It sounds like you effectively have a built-in language card (that would be quite sensible), and you have RAM in place of the ROM (possibly to get round Apple copyrights). The 5517 RAMs take the place of ROMs -- they're loaded once on boot-up, and then contain the resident BASIC, etc. The EPROM you have sounds like a bootloader for these RAMs. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 17 17:28:13 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: Commodore SX64 probs... In-Reply-To: <1090098934.18834.44.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Jul 17, 4 09:15:35 pm Message-ID: > > > I've got a pair of non-working Commodore SX64's here. > > One machine powers up, but the floppy drive light remains lit and I can > hear the drive spinning continuously, and there's a 50% grey pattern > filling the screen (i.e. pixels look to be alternating white/black). > Actually, there's also short run of pixels middle-bottom of the screen > which aren't illuminated at all. Pressing reset has no effect. Pressing > caps-lock does result in the caps-lock light illuminating, but I don't > know if that's a simple circuit hardwired to the key and doesn't go via > the CPU... Is this thing like a C64 + 1541 drive? In other words, does the disk drive have its own 6502 CPU? If so, then you either have 2 faults, or a fault in what little circuitry is common to both of them. I would start by checking the PSUs (voltage and ripple). CBM machines of this vintage suffer from bad IC sockets, so it's worth at least re-seating all socketed chips, and maybe replacing the sockets (with turned-pin ones). Can the main CPU hold the disk CPU in a reset state? If so, then maybe the LED and motor-on lines are asserted. Maybe the main CPU is not initialising the serial bus correctly, and you only have a fault in that area (RAM, ROM, is there an 82S100 PLA in this machine?) > > The second machine is totally dead - no activity whatsoever. There's a > *very faint* humming noise from the monitor area, typical of a display > that's at least getting power though - but on the CPU side of things no > chips seem to be getting remotely warm, suggesting that there's no +5V. A voltmeter will verify the truth of that last statement, but alas the voltmeter that does tests over the internet has yet to be invented :-). It'll be a lot quicker if you do said simple test(s) before I start thinking of possible causes. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 17 17:29:37 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 (or ST?) joystick? In-Reply-To: <1090096170.18834.31.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Jul 17, 4 08:29:30 pm Message-ID: > > Hi all, > > Anyone know if I can use a joystick on the Atari TT030? If so, what > type, which port does it use etc. (and does anyone have the relevant > port pinouts so I can wire up an adapter? I don't have an Atari-specific > joystick, but I do have ones from various other machines kicking around) IIRC, the Atari ST uses the same joysticks are older Ataris (and C64s, etc?). It's a switch-type unit ending in a DE9 socket (there's a DE9 plug on the computer). I can't remmber the pinouts off-hand, but they _must_ be on the web somewhere. If not, I can certainly look them up. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 17 17:18:56 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: HP 9915A In-Reply-To: from "RHahm" at Jul 17, 4 12:50:26 pm Message-ID: > > I recently aquired an HP 9915A computer/calculator which is the industrial > version of the HP85. I know it well. There are a few differences from the 85, of course. No built-in printer, only 3 I/O slots, but a ROM drawer is built in (there are 6 spaces for the HP ROM modules on the mainboard under the I/O cage). There's also some kind of built-in EPROM module (a little daughterboard with 8 sockets for 2716s (or 2732s if you move the soldered links), hung off a microcontroller. I assume you have the tape drive (this is technically an option) and the frontpanel buttons (which are connected in parallel with the programmable function keys on the keyboatd). The blue (IIRC) key is equivalent to shift. > If any one has the keyboard and would like to sell it or trade for it email > me. Keyboards are much rarer than machines. Fortunately, the keyboard is just an array of swtiches, the keyboard controller (same as in the 85) is on the mainboard. Many of the 'chips' on the I/O card are diode arrays to protect the keyboard controller from ESD damage. I have a pinout of the DB25 for the keyboard (heck, I have a hand-drawn schematic of the machine). Most of the keys are in a 8*10 matrix. Shift, Control, and CapsLock (the last being a latching switch) have their own inputs, the other side of those swtiches goes to ground. I can probably find a keyboard matrix diagram somewhere (if only in the HP85 service manual, it's the same layout). The DA15 conenctor bascially carries the LED drive lines that are used for the front panel indicators. And the BNC connector is conventioal composite video at US TV rates (RS170-like) I refuse to tell you what the IEC 'kettle plug' is for :-). Note that lovely bit of HP design where a flange on the cover fits round this plug, so you have to pull the socket out before removing the cover. Neat. Oh yes, the tape drive sufferes from the same gummy wheel problem as other HP tape drives. You can strip it down like an HP85 tape drive, but note that the tachometer lamp leads are soldered to the PCB (or at least they are in my machine), not pushed into little sockets. Not a real problem. -tony From aek at spies.com Sat Jul 17 18:04:06 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0, Day one. Message-ID: <20040717230406.C22B53C79@spies.com> > There is a version of Spacewar for the PDP-11 Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 03:19:40 +0000 (UTC) Organization: The World : www.TheWorld.com : Since 1989 Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <3e601025$0$27765$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: shell01.theworld.com X-Trace: pcls4.std.com 1046488780 23292 199.172.62.241 (1 Mar 2003 03:19:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@TheWorld.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 03:19:40 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: nn/6.6.5 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.linkpendium.com!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!west.cox.net!cox.net!newshosting.com!news-xfer2.atl.newshosting.com!uunet!dca.uu.net!nntp.TheWorld.com!mbg Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:130595 "Geoffrey G. Rochat" <777geoff777@777pkworks777.777com777> writes: >a DCC-16, which was a Nova clone. And although I've never seen one in >action, I've no doubt SpaceWar was very popular on the PDP-11/05-based GT05. I have a friend who wrote a spacewar for the *GT40* which we also played on a GT42. I still have the code and the original control boxes we built for it (wired directly to a parallel I/O board, A DR11, if I remember correctly). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer From sastevens at earthlink.net Sat Jul 17 18:21:50 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: Early timesharing/BBS systems In-Reply-To: <002601c46c15$d279d7d0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> References: <002601c46c15$d279d7d0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Message-ID: <20040717182150.3a1b0c03.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 11:50:44 -0400 "Richard A. Cini" wrote: > Hello, all: > > I was at VCFe yesterday and I have to say that the speakers and > demonstrations were great. Sellam did a fantastic job and where the > event was located at the Sun facilities worked out perfectly. One demo > that I missed was the ARPANET dial-up simulation which wasn't there > when I left at 3:30. > > Anyway, this demo brings-up an interesting question. What kind > of dial-up > systems existed in the 70's before consumer-oriented services like > CompuServe? I remember the DowJones and CompuServe sign-up packs at > RadioShack in maybe 1979 (I joined CIS in 1988. I even remember my ID: > 70153,3367). I also remember in high school (around 1983) using a > DECwriter to dial into the timesharing computer (at 300 baud; I don't > know the host system) at one of the local universities. > > Just curious. Thanks. > > Rich When I started BBSing in the mid 80's I started out on a massive DECwriter, a wide carriage printing terminal at 300 baud. I connected it to an acoustic coupler, dialing out by hand on a regular telephone. It was highly annoying that this was already the time when most people had switched to 'glass TTY' CRT displays of one sort or another, and sysops assumed anybody connecting had such hardware. It consumed feet of wasted paper to get through the fancy 'welcome' screens on many BBSes. Within a few years, I was proud 'sysop' of my own BBS, running WWIV 3.21d (distributed only as Turbo Pascal 3.0 source code) on a non-turbo XT clone with all 640K and a five meg hard drive. There were still people then running C-Net boards on Commodore 64s with one or two floppy drives as the only storage. My board was 1200 baud for the longest time because it wasn't a 'file transfer' BBS, and most people couldn't read text messages faster than 1200 baud anyways (and I was cheap). There were times when I experimented with the hardware, i.e. the time I ran the whole system out of a combination of RAM disk and only floppy disk drives, which slowed the system up even more. In that era, there was readily available CompuSERV dialup. Lower-bandwidth connect time was only $6 an hour, not the regular $12/hour you paid to dial in through the high speed (1200 baud) modem pool. Near as I could tell, the only people 'hanging out' on CompuSERV were people whose companies paid the connect time bill. But I am talking about much later than the era of the 70's being asked about. Back in the 70's all I connected to were big University time sharing systems, and the MERITS system when in High School. 300 baud was the 'fast' terminal we all vied for. Normally one got stuck on the 110 baud teletype in upper case only. From kahrs at caip.rutgers.edu Sat Jul 17 19:26:49 2004 From: kahrs at caip.rutgers.edu (Mark Kahrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: Congratulations to Ethan Dicks! Message-ID: <200407180026.i6I0Qn3m003326@caip.rutgers.edu> Ethan won the "out-of-the-way-corners-of-the-earth contest" on Velonews (competitive cycling magazine following the Tour de France). and, if they decide to start an "insane readers" contest, they assure him he's in the running as well. Congratulations! From dfnr2 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 17 19:38:34 2004 From: dfnr2 at yahoo.com (Dave) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: OSI 560Z: DEC PDP-8 clone using 6100 & 6502 Message-ID: <20040718003834.5672.qmail@web50501.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, Having recently acquired some 6100's (I know they're lesser than the 6120), I thought I'd try a PDP-8 project (I remember seeing these, but never got to play with one.) Ohio Scientific had a board--the 560Z--which contained a 6100, a 6502, and a Z-80. The 6502 was "microprogrammed" to emulate the PDP-8 IOT codes, and OSI claimed that it was fully compatible. Has anyone played with one of these suckers? How good was the emulation? Does anyone have any info on the schematics of that board, or the 6502 firmware? Or, does anyone have an unused 560Z, working or not, they'd be willing to part with? I'm also aware of the SBC6120; I plan to order one of these soon. Thanks, Dave __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From wacarder at usit.net Sat Jul 17 22:44:51 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: RK05 stuff (was RE: cctalk Digest, Vol 10, Issue 74) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've tried both of my RK05 drives. They power on fine. Blower seems to be fine. I put a pack in, press the run switch. The motor never comes on that turns the drive. The same thing happens in both drives. Neither drive will start spinning at all. Any ideas on where to start looking? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 5:54 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: RK05 stuff (was RE: cctalk Digest, Vol 10, Issue 74) > When I received the drives, I took the cover off and looked > inside. They appear to be very clean. There are tags on both > drives that indicate that they passed a maintenance check in > 1997. I have applied power to both drives. The toggle switches > all seem to work and the appropriate lights come on. OK, the power supply is probably fine, but it can't hurt to check the voltages... Also make sure the blower is running (and is not smoking -- these motors, particularly in the 230V version -- suffer from insulation breakdown which can be spectacular!). Check for airflow at the duct on the left side of the baseplate, just to make sure there;s not a complete blockage somewhere. > > I have the various RK05 technical manuals and an RK05 maintenance > course for field engineers. I have started looking at these > documents. > > Once I hook up the drives to the RK11 controller on the 11/40 > or 11/34, what would be the steps involved in testing these drives > and getting them up and running if they're mechanically sound? > They were shipped from Ohio to South Carolina. I do not want to > destroy the heads the first time I put a pack in the drives. Turn off the positioner (there's a swtick on the servo amplifier PCB on top of the PSU for this -- IIRC you put it down to disable the positioner). Power up, put a pack in, and switch to run. Check the motor starts and that everything seems to be runing correctly. Spin down, enable the positioner again, pray to the patron saint of old computers [1], spin up and keep you hand on the load swtich. Wait for the heads to load, If you get unpleasant noises, spin down at once. Assuming the heads load correctly, then try running some kind of diagnostics, or attempt to boot an OS (if you have a bootable OS on an RK05 pack). When I got my first RK05, I was really worried about headcrashes. As it turned out, thr drive was fine, but I had a long job tracing logic faults in the RK11-C (rows fo flip-chip cards) controller... [1] This is presumably St Chad of Hackforth [2] :-) [2] I believe thrre is a St Chad. And there's certainly a place in England called Hackforth. AFAIK the 2 have no connection, but the names have obvious meanings to old computer hackers. -tony From sastevens at earthlink.net Sat Jul 17 22:56:23 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: OSI 560Z: DEC PDP-8 clone using 6100 & 6502 In-Reply-To: <20040718003834.5672.qmail@web50501.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040718003834.5672.qmail@web50501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040717225623.6e20d31f.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 17:38:34 -0700 (PDT) Dave wrote: > Hello, > > Having recently acquired some 6100's (I know they're > lesser than the 6120), I thought I'd try a PDP-8 > project (I remember seeing these, but never got to > play with one.) > > Ohio Scientific had a board--the 560Z--which contained > a 6100, a 6502, and a Z-80. The 6502 was > "microprogrammed" to emulate the PDP-8 IOT codes, and > OSI claimed that it was fully compatible. Has anyone > played with one of these suckers? How good was the > emulation? Does anyone have any info on the > schematics of that board, or the 6502 firmware? Or, > does anyone have an unused 560Z, working or not, > they'd be willing to part with? > > I'm also aware of the SBC6120; I plan to order one of > these soon. > > Thanks, > > Dave > > I have quantities of the 6100 processor chip (new in tubes) and have been wanting to do a project with them as well. I have located all the datasheets for the family and also the info for the Intercept and Intercept, Jr. computers, which use the 6100. The serious constraints of the 6100 processor are the small memory map. But with it's static CMOS design it's a cool 'breadboard' computer because you can clock it down to zero hertz. What I've wanted to build with the 6100 is a switchpanel computer for hand coded machine language. To relive the memories of when I bootstrapped a PDP-8e to do my 'Introductory Computer Programming' programming assignments at Hamline University in St. Paul, MN in 1978. I was the only person who finished the FOCAL programming assignments because I was the only person who learned how to bootstrap it to load FOCAL off paper tape. Everybody else just turned in the FORTRAN assignments. Scott From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Jul 17 23:00:59 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: RK05 stuff (was RE: cctalk Digest, Vol 10, Issue 74) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Belts intact? Interlock switch good? Take the bottom cover off - can you spin the pack by hand? Ie, are the spindle bearings free? IIRC, the RK05 will spin a pack w/out being connected to anything, as opposed to RL0x drives that want to see valid clock coming from the controller. I could be mistaken about this - my RK-experience is nearly 5 years old now. Ummm... also ISTR a fairly large relay back near the linear actuator that turns the spindle motor on... is this clicking? Time to get out the Volts Guesser and a handy Schematic.... Cheers John From wacarder at usit.net Sat Jul 17 23:27:37 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: RK05 stuff (was RE: cctalk Digest, Vol 10, Issue 74) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yep, the belts are intact and if I remove the bottom cover, I can turn the motor and spindle easily. Nope, nothing's clicking. Other ideas? -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Lawson Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 12:01 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: RK05 stuff (was RE: cctalk Digest, Vol 10, Issue 74) Belts intact? Interlock switch good? Take the bottom cover off - can you spin the pack by hand? Ie, are the spindle bearings free? IIRC, the RK05 will spin a pack w/out being connected to anything, as opposed to RL0x drives that want to see valid clock coming from the controller. I could be mistaken about this - my RK-experience is nearly 5 years old now. Ummm... also ISTR a fairly large relay back near the linear actuator that turns the spindle motor on... is this clicking? Time to get out the Volts Guesser and a handy Schematic.... Cheers John From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 17 23:26:04 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: RK05 stuff (was RE: cctalk Digest, Vol 10, Issue 74) In-Reply-To: from "Ashley Carder" at Jul 17, 4 11:44:51 pm Message-ID: > > I've tried both of my RK05 drives. They power on fine. Blower > seems to be fine. I put a pack in, press the run switch. The > motor never comes on that turns the drive. The same thing > happens in both drives. Neither drive will start spinning at > all. > > Any ideas on where to start looking? Firslty, put a termionator card (M930) into one of the cable connector slots if the drive is not cabled up anyway with a terminator in the 'out' slot of the last drive. I seem to rememebr that RK05s do odd things if they're not terminated (and you might also want to try it with the drive disconnected from the controller, with just a terminator, in case it's something like the ACLO/DCLO lines on the bus being asserted). Now, the spindle motor is controlled by a relay on top of the PSU. From what you say in another message that relay is never being energised. The next thing to do is to trace the relay coil signal back to the logic and to find out what has to be asserted for the relay to pull in. There's certainly an interlock switch circuit -- 2 switches in series IIRC that detect that there's a pack in and the door is closed. Obviosuly the RUN switch has to be on. And I think there's some kind of power-OK line. Maybe more. Now find out which (if any) of those signals are not being asserted (if all of them are, then trace through the logic itself, of course), and find out why not. Maybe just a switch that's not closing, maybe more. If you need more help, I'll dig out the prints, but it's a little late to do that tonight :-) -tony From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Jul 17 23:41:45 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: RK05 stuff (was RE: cctalk Digest, Vol 10, Issue 74) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Jul 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > Yep, the belts are intact and if I remove the bottom cover, I can > turn the motor and spindle easily. > > Nope, nothing's clicking. > > Other ideas? Observation first: You said both drives have the same symptom? Herein might be a Clew. Ideas: Obtain (download, etc) the Engineering Prints on your drives, if you don't have them already. Find the section showing the various motor circuits. Locate any fuses, relay contacts, switches, etc, on the print and physically on the drive. It's a pretty simple mechanism, as these things go... of course I am rather presumptively assuming you can read a bit of Schematic, no? Obtain a simple method of reading continuity, resistance, and voltage,(AC and DC) - most el-cheapo DVMs fit this spec nicely. Use it to determine the static and dynamic state(s) of the motor supply and control circuits. Is there AC voltage available to the motor circuits? IS there any voltage on the motor connections themselves, when the drive is set up so that you would expect it to spin the pack? With the drive de-energized, is there continuity across any switches or relay contacts in the motor circuit? etc. etc... The motor relay 'not clicking' is a good place to start... the motor and blower circuits are simple and a bit of Holmesian electro-sleuthing ought to reveal the problem in short order. The usual cautions about working on energized electro-mechanical devices apply: professionals, closed course, don't try this At Home, yada/yada/yada... And it is possible that Professor Duell will grace you with his spot-on information anent this problem, tho it is bedtime in Merry Old just now. Cheers John PS: I don't have the RK05 prints anymore, drat! Just RL02 Stuff. From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jul 17 23:53:38 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: RK05 stuff (was RE: cctalk Digest, Vol 10, Issue 74) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40FA0252.9090209@mdrconsult.com> Ashley Carder wrote: > I've tried both of my RK05 drives. They power on fine. Blower > seems to be fine. I put a pack in, press the run switch. The > motor never comes on that turns the drive. The same thing > happens in both drives. Neither drive will start spinning at > all. > > Any ideas on where to start looking? Is the PSU input voltage right? I picked up an RA60 drive at Christmas that had been set for 250VAC, and it behaved exactly like that on a 110VAC circuit. I don't know if the RK05 is switchable or not; just an idea. Doc From wacarder at usit.net Sun Jul 18 00:04:29 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: RK05 stuff (was RE: cctalk Digest, Vol 10, Issue 74) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, thanks to both you and professor Duell. I am not very electronically inclined, but I am quickly needing to learn. It is bedtime here is the US, EST, so I think I'll go to bed and start again tomorrow. BTW, I have not hooked these drives up to my 11/34. They're just sitting in a rack by themselves and they are cabled together the way they were when they arrived at my house a month or more ago. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Lawson Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 12:42 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: RK05 stuff (was RE: cctalk Digest, Vol 10, Issue 74) On Sun, 18 Jul 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > Yep, the belts are intact and if I remove the bottom cover, I can > turn the motor and spindle easily. > > Nope, nothing's clicking. > > Other ideas? Observation first: You said both drives have the same symptom? Herein might be a Clew. Ideas: Obtain (download, etc) the Engineering Prints on your drives, if you don't have them already. Find the section showing the various motor circuits. Locate any fuses, relay contacts, switches, etc, on the print and physically on the drive. It's a pretty simple mechanism, as these things go... of course I am rather presumptively assuming you can read a bit of Schematic, no? Obtain a simple method of reading continuity, resistance, and voltage,(AC and DC) - most el-cheapo DVMs fit this spec nicely. Use it to determine the static and dynamic state(s) of the motor supply and control circuits. Is there AC voltage available to the motor circuits? IS there any voltage on the motor connections themselves, when the drive is set up so that you would expect it to spin the pack? With the drive de-energized, is there continuity across any switches or relay contacts in the motor circuit? etc. etc... The motor relay 'not clicking' is a good place to start... the motor and blower circuits are simple and a bit of Holmesian electro-sleuthing ought to reveal the problem in short order. The usual cautions about working on energized electro-mechanical devices apply: professionals, closed course, don't try this At Home, yada/yada/yada... And it is possible that Professor Duell will grace you with his spot-on information anent this problem, tho it is bedtime in Merry Old just now. Cheers John PS: I don't have the RK05 prints anymore, drat! Just RL02 Stuff. From bob at jfcl.com Sun Jul 18 00:44:12 2004 From: bob at jfcl.com (Robert Armstrong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: Connecting a FPF11 to a 11/23+ (Dumb Questions) Message-ID: <001d01c46c8a$444c3c30$ba02010a@LIFEBOOK> I just got my hands on an FPF11 board, and naturally I want to connect it to my 11/23+ right away! I understand that the 40 pin header on the card edge connects to a 40 pin DIP plug that goes into one of the microcode option sockets on the 11/23+. Dumb question #1 - is it conventional to install the FPF11 in the slot immediately below the CPU, thus displacing all the memory boards down a slot? Or does the FPF11 go in the first Q/Q slot (slot 4) ? Or does it even matter? Dumb question #2 - the handbook says, "[the FPF11] ... complements the KEF11-AA". Does this mean that the FIS option chip must _also_ be installed in the 11/23+? Or must it _not_ be installed? Dumb question #3 - does it matter which one of the microcode option sockets you plug the FPF11 into? And... #4 - how do you know if the thing's working? Short of having the diagnostics for it, of course, which I don't. Thanks, Bob Armstrong From bob at jfcl.com Sun Jul 18 00:47:58 2004 From: bob at jfcl.com (Robert Armstrong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: Upgrading a BA11-N for Q22 addressing Message-ID: <002201c46c8a$cb9c20b0$ba02010a@LIFEBOOK> Is there a description anywhere of the backplane changes that need to be made to upgrade a BA11-N (H9273 backplane) for 22 bit addressing? Thanks, Bob Armstrong From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jul 18 02:16:53 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: Connecting a FPF11 to a 11/23+ (Dumb Questions) In-Reply-To: "Robert Armstrong" "Connecting a FPF11 to a 11/23+ (Dumb Questions)" (Jul 17, 22:44) References: <001d01c46c8a$444c3c30$ba02010a@LIFEBOOK> Message-ID: <10407180816.ZM18327@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 17, 22:44, Robert Armstrong wrote: > I just got my hands on an FPF11 board, and naturally I want to connect > it to my 11/23+ right away! I understand that the 40 pin header on the > card edge connects to a 40 pin DIP plug that goes into one of the > microcode option sockets on the 11/23+. Correct. > Dumb question #1 - is it conventional to install the FPF11 in the slot > immediately below the CPU, thus displacing all the memory boards down a > slot? Or does the FPF11 go in the first Q/Q slot (slot 4) ? Or does it > even matter? http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-October/020356.html > Dumb question #2 - the handbook says, "[the FPF11] ... complements the > KEF11-AA". Does this mean that the FIS option chip must _also_ be > installed in the 11/23+? Or must it _not_ be installed? No. No. That is, it doesn't matter :-) > Dumb question #3 - does it matter which one of the microcode option > sockets you plug the FPF11 into? Probably not, though it's meant to go into socket 2. > And... #4 - how do you know if the thing's working? Short of having > the diagnostics for it, of course, which I don't. Run the diags, or run an OS that detects it (RT-11 will) and some code that should run faster if it's there? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jul 18 02:11:17 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: Upgrading a BA11-N for Q22 addressing In-Reply-To: "Robert Armstrong" "Upgrading a BA11-N for Q22 addressing" (Jul 17, 22:47) References: <002201c46c8a$cb9c20b0$ba02010a@LIFEBOOK> Message-ID: <10407180811.ZM18324@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 17, 22:47, Robert Armstrong wrote: > > Is there a description anywhere of the backplane changes that need to > be made to upgrade a BA11-N (H9273 backplane) for 22 bit addressing? All you need to do is take 4 lengths of wire-wrap wire (or something similar) and join together all the pins that connect to the BC1 fingers, all the BD1, all the BE1, and all the BF1. If you can view (or print) PostScript files there's a diagram showing the finger layout at http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/PDP-11/ QBusConns.ps is actual size, QBusConnsBig.ps is somewhat larger. I expect there are text lists of the signals/fingers around the web too. If you plan to use a processor with PMI memory you might also want to link AF1 on the first (top) slot to AF1 on the slot (or two slots) immediately below. That's the SRUN connection; without it the RUN LED won't light. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dave04a at dunfield.com Sun Jul 18 05:25:47 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: Help with Apple2 clone "Orange Peel" Message-ID: <20040718102546.VKDY7131.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Hi Tony, >> So - I have a bit of a paradox : the "2kb/2716" label suggests >> ROM's, and the 64k of RAM on the mainboard also indicates that >> all the RAM is on the lower board, however the ROM strings >> suggest that this may be the only ROM. > >IIRC, a real Apple ][ has up to 64K RAM (48K on the mainboard, 16K on a >language card) and some ROMs. The ROMs are bank-switched with the top 16K >(Language card) RAM. That's correct. There are also two language cards, one just has 16k to replace the ROM's, and one has more memory which can be bank switched into the 16k ROM address space. >It sounds like you effectively have a built-in language card (that would >be quite sensible), and you have RAM in place of the ROM (possibly to get >round Apple copyrights). The 5517 RAMs take the place of ROMs -- they're >loaded once on boot-up, and then contain the resident BASIC, etc. The >EPROM you have sounds like a bootloader for these RAMs. Thats exactly what I am thinking. Still trying to figure it out - never gets as far as trying to read the disk - does chip select the ROM and appear to read some code from it, but does not make it much further. Btw, do you (or anyone) have the pinout for 4564 DRAM's? I'm wondering if they are in backwards (as noted previously, someone "worked" on this unit) - 16 pins, showing +5 on pin 8 and Gnd on pin 16 - backward to most chips, although I do recall there were some memory chips with odd power... Lack of working main RAM would explain it's behavour. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Jul 18 06:23:28 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: Acorn Cambridge Workstations In-Reply-To: <20040717024415.16C883C6B@spies.com> References: <20040717024415.16C883C6B@spies.com> Message-ID: <33789.192.168.0.11.1090149808.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> Hi folks, My temporary custodianship of possibly the last Acorn Business Computer is ending today since I'm taking it and a spare case down to Jules R. for him to fix up and get running. There's a bit of info on the web page which is: http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Acorn/acws.htm All temporary stuff for now since I haven't got DSL at my cottage yet (did someone say DACS unit? Grrrr) so I haven't had time to tidy up the pictures or even add anything to my proper Acorn page. Somewhere out on that there web is a page with lots of pictures of the 210 I now have as well as an almost complete parts breakdown. This unit is also the one Olivier at old-computers.com features, though now the missing keyswitch has been moved :) Hopefully I'll see some of the UK classiccmpers at the CGE-UK next weekend? cheers -- adrian/witchy Binary Dinosaurs owner/curator www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UKs biggest home computer collection? From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Jul 18 06:43:00 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: Acorn Cambridge Workstations In-Reply-To: <33789.192.168.0.11.1090149808.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> References: <20040717024415.16C883C6B@spies.com> <33789.192.168.0.11.1090149808.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <1090150980.26421.11.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-07-18 at 11:23, Witchy wrote: > Hi folks, > > My temporary custodianship of possibly the last Acorn Business Computer is > ending today since I'm taking it and a spare case down to Jules R. for him > to fix up and get running. There's a bit of info on the web page which is: > > http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Acorn/acws.htm D'oh! That link doesn't work... and I still haven't actually seen any pics of the machine :-) btw, spare case will be looking for a home in case anyone wants to bodge together their own ACW/ABC. Just give me a while as I believe the previous owner of the machine said that the spare case has a screen in it which is in much better condition than the ABC 210's, so I'll probs swap them over. Of course I need to try and get the 210 running first - either something's up with the 286 copro (which is likely fixable) or there's something nasty going on with the ROMs on the B+ side (which is going to be more tricky, given that it's perhaps the last of its kind...) > Hopefully I'll see some of the UK classiccmpers at the CGE-UK next weekend? Actually, if you can get the 210 to me this week and I can get it running then I can bring it along to the CGE show. I'll be there on the Saturday for sure, not sure about the Sunday yet. Having said that, the car's already totally full of stuff for the stand... hmm... btw, you were looking for an Atari 800 weren't you? Think I've found one that's looking for a good home. Watch this space. seeya Jules From brad at heeltoe.com Sun Jul 18 06:19:35 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: odd hex width unibus card - Konelar corp? Message-ID: <200407181119.i6IBJZR12683@mwave.heeltoe.com> Hi, Does anyone have any information on a "kxmu extended memory" unibus card from Konelar corp? (of Bedford Ma, no less). Looks like some sort of banked memory, but google doesn't return anything. -brad From lbickley at bickleywest.com Sun Jul 18 09:08:25 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: MTI QTS30 SCSI QBUS module Message-ID: <200407180708.25753.lbickley@bickleywest.com> I have a MTI QTS30 SCSI QBUS module - but no docs. The port-vax list states the following: QTS30 -------- Type: disk controller Bus: Q-bus Bus protocol: E(?) Vendor: MTI Specification: SCSI disks Last updated: 1998-02-06 But has no information regarding jumper settings, capabilities, etc. Any help would be appreciated!!! Thanks, Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jul 18 11:14:28 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0, Day one. References: <10407170819.ZM17433@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <40FAA1E4.9070203@tiac.net> I'm pretty familiar with the VT-11 (GT-40) instruction set, and would be able to write a port of that code to run on a HP1350 vector box. Does anyone have the source code? I've been looking at the PDP-1 source, but I don't know the PDP-1 very well (yet), nor do I understand its display system. VT-11 code might be a much shorter learning curve for me to port to the HP's. Pete Turnbull wrote: >On Jul 16, 22:18, Ashley Carder wrote: > >>RSTS/E. The early versions were text based and you could run them on >>an LA36 DecWriter or ASR-33 teletype. A friend of mine converted one >>to run on a VT50 terminal where it would update the screen. >> >>I might be thinking of a star trek game because the VT50 version was >>called TVTREK.BAS, but I think one of the text based games was called >>SPACWR.BAS. I have old program listings from 1978 and I think I have >>soft copies of some of these. I'll check. >> > >SPACWR.BAS is a version of Star Trek, published by David Ahl in "101 >BASIC Computer Games". It's not related to Spacewar, which isn't >text-based. > >There is a version of Spacewar for PDP-11, though, with a GT40. I >think Megan has a copy, and I think it runs under RT-11. I must fix my >GT40 and do something about that... > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 18 14:46:46 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0, Day one. In-Reply-To: <40FAA1E4.9070203@tiac.net> from "Bob Shannon" at Jul 18, 4 12:14:28 pm Message-ID: > > I'm pretty familiar with the VT-11 (GT-40) instruction set, and would be > able to write a port > of that code to run on a HP1350 vector box. Ah, somebody else has one of those interesting units... I asusme you've looked inside. It's all random logic (lots of it) to decode a small subset of HPGL (in ASCII!) into binary numbers of the endpoints of the vectors, and then display them. I have a couple of them, and the official HP service manual... On the main board there are 2 10bit DACs. There are 6 presets in each DAC to adjuse the 6 most significant bits (the lower 4 don't matter too much). These 2 rows of presets, due to their appearance and function, were quickly named the 'graphic equaliser' here :-) You do realise that the GT40 is a complete computer (there's a PDP11 processor in there), while the HP1350 is just a display. Still you can hang the 1350 off just about any machine with an HPIB port I guess. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 18 14:37:38 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: RK05 stuff (was RE: cctalk Digest, Vol 10, Issue 74) In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Jul 18, 4 00:41:45 am Message-ID: > Obtain a simple method of reading continuity, resistance, and voltage,(AC > and DC) - most el-cheapo DVMs fit this spec nicely. Use it to determine IMHO anyone who works on classic computers must have a multimeter. It is essential to be able to check PSU voltages, find open-circuit fuses, dead switches, and the like. Even if you don't want to get into more complex troubleshooting. > the static and dynamic state(s) of the motor supply and control circuits. > Is there AC voltage available to the motor circuits? IS there any voltage At this point I'd be trying to work out why the relay wasn't pulling in. The AC side is quite possibly fine, the motor only runs with the relay pulled in (that's what the relay is for!). And the relay is controlled by low (12V, 5V) voltage logic circuitry. Of course there's mains on the relay contacts. I asusme you have the prints. If not, I'll dig out my set. > The usual cautions about working on energized electro-mechanical devices > apply: professionals, closed course, don't try this At Home, > yada/yada/yada... I'm no professional, I do this sort of thing at home. Heck, I've worked on an 11/44 PSU and lived to tell the tale :-) > > > And it is possible that Professor Duell will grace you with his spot-on And I can assue you I'm no professor ... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 18 14:39:10 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: RK05 stuff (was RE: cctalk Digest, Vol 10, Issue 74) In-Reply-To: <40FA0252.9090209@mdrconsult.com> from "Doc Shipley" at Jul 17, 4 11:53:38 pm Message-ID: > > I don't know if the RK05 is switchable or not; just an idea. Not easily. There's a jumper plug on the PSU chassis to change the transformer primary connections (2 windings in series for 230V, in parallel for 115V), but I think you also need to change the spindle motor (!). The blower is 115V in both versions of the drive. There's also a pulley change when you go between 50Hz and 60Hz. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 18 14:42:01 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: Help with Apple2 clone "Orange Peel" In-Reply-To: <20040718102546.VKDY7131.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> from "Dave Dunfield" at Jul 18, 4 06:25:47 am Message-ID: > Btw, do you (or anyone) have the pinout for 4564 DRAM's? I'm wondering > if they are in backwards (as noted previously, someone "worked" on this > unit) - 16 pins, showing +5 on pin 8 and Gnd on pin 16 - backward to That is the conventioanl pinout for 64K DRAMs (like the 4164). The old 3-rail 16K ones (4116, etc) had -5V on pin 1, +12V on pin 8, +5V on pin 9 and ground on pin 16 (this is burnt into my brain). I don't think your RAM is in backwards. Certainly don't turn it round yet! -tony From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Jul 18 15:39:18 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:20 2005 Subject: Commodore SX64 probs... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1090183157.26421.41.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sat, 2004-07-17 at 22:28, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > I've got a pair of non-working Commodore SX64's here. > > > > One machine powers up, but the floppy drive light remains lit and I can > > hear the drive spinning continuously, and there's a 50% grey pattern > > filling the screen (i.e. pixels look to be alternating white/black). > > Actually, there's also short run of pixels middle-bottom of the screen > > which aren't illuminated at all. Pressing reset has no effect. Pressing > > caps-lock does result in the caps-lock light illuminating, but I don't > > know if that's a simple circuit hardwired to the key and doesn't go via > > the CPU... > > Is this thing like a C64 + 1541 drive? In other words, does the disk > drive have its own 6502 CPU? If so, then you either have 2 faults, or a > fault in what little circuitry is common to both of them. I've stripped one machine down. It has three main boards, labelled as CPU, floppy drive controller, and I/O. Prominent ICs on the CPU board (all MOS apart from the EPROM): 6510 / CBM (40 pins) 6569R3 (40 pins) 906114-01 (28 pins) 901226-01 (24 pins) 6581 (28 pins) 901225-01 (24 pins) 2564 EPROM Prominent ICs on the FDC controller board (again, all MOS apart from RAM / ROM): 6502 (40 pins) 6522 x 2 (40 pins) 325572-01 (40 pins) 325302-01 (24 pins) 2564 EPROM 2116 RAM .. plus the I/O board has a pair of MOS 6526 40-pin ICs. The reset from the switch on the front of the machine hooks into the FDC board and appears to reset the 6502 there, which then must in turn reset whichever is the CPU on the CPU board... > Can the main CPU hold the disk CPU in a reset state? If so, then maybe > the LED and motor-on lines are asserted. Maybe the main CPU is not > initialising the serial bus correctly, and you only have a fault in that > area (RAM, ROM, is there an 82S100 PLA in this machine?) I've read elsewhere that PLA chips in C64's die often and randomly, however there's nothing labelled 82S100 in this machine. Maybe it's labelled with a different part number for these machines? Far as I know, the machines are supposed to be C64 compatible... > > The second machine is totally dead - no activity whatsoever. There's a > > *very faint* humming noise from the monitor area, typical of a display > > that's at least getting power though - but on the CPU side of things no > > chips seem to be getting remotely warm, suggesting that there's no +5V. > > A voltmeter will verify the truth of that last statement, but alas the > voltmeter that does tests over the internet has yet to be invented :-). :-) There's no output at all from the supply on the +5V or +12V lines, but the output from the bridge rectifier within the first parts of the PSU circuit are giving a good DC reading, so it's not something simple. These PSU's have a pair of little sub-PCB modules mounted on them, one for 5V and one for 12V, each with an MB3759 IC on them - however as I'm getting nothing on either power rail it suggests the fault's elsewhere in the PSU. Leave that one with me, as I've at least got the other PSU which works and I can take readings from. I was hoping that someone would come forward with schematics, or that there was a known failure point with the supplies in these machines. cheers Jules From Arno_1983 at gmx.de Sun Jul 18 16:11:32 2004 From: Arno_1983 at gmx.de (Arno1983) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: Atari TT030 (or ST?) joystick? Message-ID: Since I've got the User's Manual (and the machine, which I got with a crashed HDD) kicking around... Translated: Chapter 1 - Getting Started: "Most computer games rely on joysticks as input devices. Exactly how the joystick is used depends much on the game itself. Remark: Joysticks are not included. Warning: Broken joysticks can prevent the TT from initializing correctly. If you encounter any problems, you should switch off the computer, remove the joystick(s) and turn the TT on again. Connecting Joysticks Joysticks use the same connector as the Atari Mouse and can be plugged in on either side of the keyboard." Appendix F- Pinouts: "Mouse/Joystick 0 (DE9 male) 1 - XB/Up 2 - XA/Down 3 - YA/Left 4 - YB/Right 5 - middle Button 6 - left Button/Fire Button 7 - +5V 8 - Ground 9 - right Button/Fire Button Joystick 1 (DE9 male) 1 - Up 2 - Down 3 - Left 4 - Right 5 - reserved 6 - Fire Button 7 - +5V 8 - Ground 9 - unused" Hope that helps... Arno Kletzander Stud. Hilfskraft Informatik Sammlung Erlangen --- www.iser.uni-erlangen.de From r.stek at snet.net Sun Jul 18 16:23:54 2004 From: r.stek at snet.net (Robert Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: Help on Morrow Decision I - docs or direct experience? Message-ID: <200407182140.i6ILeYbY039472@huey.classiccmp.org> My last S-100 I purchsaed before caving in to an IBM clone was the Morrow Decision I. I loved its ability to handle N* hard-sectored as well as soft-sectored 5" disks as well as 8" drives, and of course a huge 15 MB hard drive I had salvaged from my Horizon. Alas I sold it before moving back to the US from Canada. I now have a Decision I (with a more industrial metal case, locking key-switch plus built-in Fujitsu hard drive and more "sophisticated" MB) and Allison Parent was kind enough to get the switching PS going again for me, and I finally tried hooking it up to a Televideo terminal. There are 4 ports on the "MB" - 3 standard 25 pin D-connectors and 1 15 pin, all coming off the back of the MB. Upon booting, it sounds like the HD is loading, but I get no response, not even garbage, from any of the 3 25 pin connectors. (And I don't have a 15 pin connector right now to make an adapter, so chances are that the 15 pin connector is the 'master' serial port while the other three are for the multi-user Micronix which apparently this Decision I was set up for (I also found some hand-written labels on one of the boards referencing "M*nix") or are parallel ports. Anyway, this is not the Decision I that I had some familiarity with. Is there anyone out there who knows this machine who could help me get it up and running again? I have the docs for the Z80 CPU, the Disc Jockey DMA controller, the hard drive controller and the 256k memory card, but not for the 'advanced' MB (I don't know enough circuitry to figure out what the heck all the extra stuff is - obviously some serial ports or maybe a combination of serial and parallel). I don't even know at this point if this unit can be made to run plain vanilla CP/M (or preferably ZCPR) (I found some web references to Micronix having to "transfer" files from a CP/M disk over to Micronix before they could be used.) I don't even know if there are any specific "features" which would prevent me from running CP/M on this unit. I also have some Morrow 5" and 8" diskettes with CP/M and CBIOS files for various combinations of 5" and 8" configuartions off the the DJ DMA board. At this point ANYTHING anyone can tell me about the Micronix Decision I would be helpful. Thanks. Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols (...and other stuff) From spedraja at ono.com Sun Jul 18 16:56:19 2004 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: AT&T 3B2/400 searching of components References: <200407182140.i6ILeYbY039472@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <001b01bc55b2$59f50220$0f02a8c0@WorkGroup> Hello. Today I began to work with one AT&T 3B2/400 received from Austria this week, together with five terminals (4 Amtec and 1 Olivetti). The system has 4Mb of memory plus one 5.25 floppy, two mfm hard disks de 72 Mb, and one Olivetti ST/60 tape unit. Together with the system I've received a set of manuals and software. About boards, it comes with three boards that supply 12 additional serial lines plus three parallel lines to the system. All appears to work. The unique problem is about the development system (C Language), not installed actually; and the limited amount of serial cables (only two). I must check the floppies received. System is AT&T Unix System V release 3. I should like to know if someone has (or know of someone) some additional board(s) or complements of interest for this system (more serial cables, memory, SCSI, Network boards, etc). Same for manuals, even when I've received a good bunch of them, I have the impression that development system manuals aren't here. Thanks Sergio From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jul 18 17:22:05 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: Connecting a FPF11 to a 11/23+ (Dumb Questions) In-Reply-To: Pete Turnbull "Re: Connecting a FPF11 to a 11/23+ (Dumb Questions)" (Jul 18, 8:16) References: <001d01c46c8a$444c3c30$ba02010a@LIFEBOOK> <10407180816.ZM18327@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <10407182322.ZM18879@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Sigh. I must not write technical stuff while tired. On Jul 18, 8:16, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jul 17, 22:44, Robert Armstrong wrote: > > Dumb question #1 - is it conventional to install the FPF11 in the > slot > > immediately below the CPU, thus displacing all the memory boards down > a > > slot? Yes, for an 11/23. For an 11/24, no, it goes after the KT24 and the memory but before anything else. > http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-October/020356.html > > > Dumb question #2 - the handbook says, "[the FPF11] ... complements > the > > KEF11-AA". Does this mean that the FIS option chip must _also_ be > > installed in the 11/23+? Or must it _not_ be installed? > > No. No. That is, it doesn't matter :-) Should be "No. Yes." Since the FPF11 plugs into the same socket that the FPP option chip plugs into (the one next to the CPU), of course you can't have both at once. There are no dumb questions, only dumb answers -- and my previous was apparently one of them. Sorry! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Jul 18 18:18:49 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: Connecting a FPF11 to a 11/23+ (Dumb Questions) In-Reply-To: <10407182322.ZM18879@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <001d01c46c8a$444c3c30$ba02010a@LIFEBOOK> <10407180816.ZM18327@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <10407182322.ZM18879@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20040718231849.GB9920@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Jul 18, 2004 at 11:22:05PM +0100, Pete Turnbull wrote: > Yes, for an 11/23. For an 11/24, no, it goes after the KT24 and the > memory but before anything else. I haven't seen the FPF11, but mightn't it have different grant jumpers (zero ohm resistors near the fingers) for installation in an 11/23 and an 11/24? -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 18-Jul-2004 23:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -78.4 F (-61.4 C) Windchill -128.2 F (-89 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 20.8 kts Grid 030 Barometer 654.4 mb (11606. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jul 18 18:46:39 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0, Day one. References: Message-ID: <40FB0BDF.9030609@tiac.net> Hi Tony, Tony Duell wrote: >>I'm pretty familiar with the VT-11 (GT-40) instruction set, and would be >>able to write a port >>of that code to run on a HP1350 vector box. >> > >Ah, somebody else has one of those interesting units... I asusme you've >looked inside. It's all random logic (lots of it) to decode a small >subset of HPGL (in ASCII!) into binary numbers of the endpoints of the >vectors, and then display them. > >I have a couple of them, and the official HP service manual... > I have two HP1350's, one working (again), and another in rough shape I've designated as a spare parts machine (although it is complete). I've written drivers and a few demo programs for this box using my home-grown threaded interpreter running on an HP 2113. This setup was just at VCF East, but due to a flaky dip switch (chanded the HPIB address!) it was not running the demo's I'd planned. I also have an HP 1351 that needs some power supply debugging when I find the time. > > >You do realise that the GT40 is a complete computer (there's a PDP11 >processor in there), while the HP1350 is just a display. Still you can >hang the 1350 off just about any machine with an HPIB port I guess. > Oh yes, many years ago I had a DEC Graphic 11/40 as my 'personal computer'. This was an 11/40 with a VT-11 and the floating point microcode, etc. A very nice machine, I replaced the original RK-05's with RL-01's and got many good years of service from it. I always prefered the front panel of the 11/40 to the 11/34 I had after running out of room for the 11/40. I regret that 'upgrade' to this day. From pkoning at equallogic.com Sun Jul 18 18:41:39 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: Connecting a FPF11 to a 11/23+ (Dumb Questions) References: <001d01c46c8a$444c3c30$ba02010a@LIFEBOOK> <10407180816.ZM18327@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <16635.2739.500000.23951@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Pete" == Pete Turnbull writes: >> And... #4 - how do you know if the thing's working? Short of >> having >> the diagnostics for it, of course, which I don't. Pete> Run the diags, or run an OS that detects it (RT-11 will) and Pete> some code that should run faster if it's there? I didn't know RT did. RSTS also does -- boot into INIT (say "NO" to "start timesharing"). Then say "hardware list" and you'll be told what's in your system, including things like FP options. paul From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Jul 18 05:49:10 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: Early timesharing/BBS systems In-Reply-To: <002601c46c15$d279d7d0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> References: <002601c46c15$d279d7d0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Message-ID: <20040718104910.GA7911@bos7.spole.gov> On Sat, Jul 17, 2004 at 11:50:44AM -0400, Richard A. Cini wrote: > Anyway, this demo brings-up an interesting question. What kind of dial-up > systems existed in the 70's before consumer-oriented services like > CompuServe? I remember the DowJones and CompuServe sign-up packs at > RadioShack in maybe 1979 CIS was several years old by 1979. Besides them, my memory of what was available around 1977 was individual RSTS machines with no passwords or weak passwords that we used to dial up from LA36s with acoustic couplers. These were individual university or commercial machines, not a "service". We'd use them until they shut down or tightened up, then look for more. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 18-Jul-2004 10:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -85.2 F (-65.0 C) Windchill -127 F (-88.40 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 11.9 kts Grid 037 Barometer 661.2 mb (11343. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From ohh at drizzle.com Sun Jul 18 19:25:00 2004 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: CDC Front Panel Overlay? Message-ID: This came up in austin.forsale. It's not something I was looking for - I'm not even all that clear on what it is - but someone else may be interested. I've made their e-mail slightly less spambot-friendly as a public service. :) -O.- From: kichline aaaat hotmail dawt com (Chuck Kichline) Newsgroups: austin.forsale Date: 17 Jul 2004 10:43:36 -0700 Message-ID: I just picked up a front panel overlay for a CDC computer - 15x6 matrix on mylar. Just some sort of test overlay, does anybody want it before it gets trashed? Chuck 218-0584 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 18 19:58:45 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: Commodore SX64 probs... In-Reply-To: <1090183157.26421.41.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Jul 18, 4 08:39:18 pm Message-ID: > I've stripped one machine down. It has three main boards, labelled as > CPU, floppy drive controller, and I/O. > > Prominent ICs on the CPU board (all MOS apart from the EPROM): > > 6510 / CBM (40 pins) CPU > 6569R3 (40 pins) Video, I guess > 906114-01 (28 pins) ROM? PLA? (IIRC the 82S100 does have 28 pins) > 901226-01 (24 pins) ROM? > 6581 (28 pins) Sound > 901225-01 (24 pins) > 2564 EPROM > > Prominent ICs on the FDC controller board (again, all MOS apart from RAM > / ROM): > > 6502 (40 pins) CPU > 6522 x 2 (40 pins) VIA (I/O chips) > 325572-01 (40 pins) Disk inteface (shift register, encoder/decode, etc) > 325302-01 (24 pins) ROM, maybe??? > 2564 EPROM > 2116 RAM > > .. plus the I/O board has a pair of MOS 6526 40-pin ICs. CIA I/O chips I think. > > The reset from the switch on the front of the machine hooks into the FDC > board and appears to reset the 6502 there, which then must in turn reset > whichever is the CPU on the CPU board... Or maybe there's a common reset line for the 2 CPUs, and the reset circuit happens to be on the FDC card. Have you tried checking clock and reset lines with a logic probe? > There's no output at all from the supply on the +5V or +12V lines, but > the output from the bridge rectifier within the first parts of the PSU > circuit are giving a good DC reading, so it's not something simple. OK. > > These PSU's have a pair of little sub-PCB modules mounted on them, one > for 5V and one for 12V, each with an MB3759 IC on them - however as I'm IIRC, that's similar to a very common switching regulator chip (78S40 or something?) > getting nothing on either power rail it suggests the fault's elsewhere > in the PSU. Is there anything, other than power inputs, that's common to the 2 regulator modules? I assuem there's nothing useful on ftp.funet.fi? -tony From evan947 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 18 20:26:20 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 wrap-up: Computer Collector E-mail Newsletter Message-ID: <20040719012620.52996.qmail@web52803.mail.yahoo.com> Hello fellow collectors, VCF East 2.0 was terrific, and I'm sure Sellam Ismail will comment on it soon, when he's recovered from the long flight home! Meanwhile, below is my own view of the show, as printed in this week's issue of the Computer Collector E-mail Newsletter (http://news.computercollector.com -- it's FREE to subscribe.) ==================================================== BURLINGTON, MASSACHUSETTS, Sun Microsystems -- This week, I'm happy to report that VCF East 2.0 was a success. Everyone learned something, or bought something, or just enjoyed reminiscing. Personally, I experienced all three, and took home a second-place award in the "other" category for my exhibit, "PDAs: 1973-1993". (Compared to all the minis and micros, my PDAs and heldhelds fell into the "other" category. Hopefully in the future there will be enough people who collect luggables, notebooks, handhelds, and transputers to make "portables" a full category of its own.) Here are some of the event highlights, from my point of view. - Friday morning set-up. A great thing about VCF events is that everyone helps with the venue set-up. Getting vintage computers to work, especially for people who traveled a long distance to attend, can be challenging. Luckily, there's no better place than a VCF floor to find knowledgeable people who can help you. From schlepping to sharing power cords to configuring boot-up sequences, there was something for everyone to do. Unlike during the public exhibition hours when you end up showing the same functions of your computers over and over, during the set-up period you can really get your hands dirty and learn something, and that certainly was the case this time. At one point we all learned that the power outlets in our portion of the Sun building shared just TWO circuits. Thankfully nobody killed the power for eastern Massachusetts. (Everyone setting up Friday morning also is indebted to Sun for letting us take over their building and parking lot, and especially to public relations staffer Samantha Moulton, who served as the event liaison. Sam: THANK YOU!) - Also Friday morning, many exhibitors took a break from set-up and joined the attendees at the speaking sessions. My own exhibit set-up is relatively simple, so I went to the first two sessions - Curt Vendel and Steve Golson's Atari "7800 20th Anniversary" talk, and event owner/newsletter writer Sellam Ismail's "VCF Ramblings" talk. In the Atari talk I learned the reality vs. the legend of how Atari's executives ran the company, how that affected customers, and how companies like Coleco and Nintendo exploited Atari's mistakes. The talk also gave me some new respect for the technical brilliance of the 7800 and its developers. Next, in Sellam's talk, I learned the details of his PDP-8 replica for Tokyo's National Science Museum. The replica worked by running Bob Supnik's simulator software on a Linux computer behind a "blinkenlights" front panel, with the computer case itself made from wood. Besides the case, I was amazed to learn how many of the replica's switches and other electromechanical parts came not from a computer parts bin, but from Sellam's local hardware store! Now that the PDP-8 and other replicas are built, Sellam says he'll build one for anybody. More information will come in the future. Unfortunately I missed Bob Supnik's own talk, and that of Sun's panel on the history of storage networks. The good news is that all of the panels were recorded, so hopefully they will be available soon for public viewing. We'll let you know the details as soon as possible. - The influx of Sun employees -- almost 1,000 work at the Burlington facility -- into Friday's public exhibits was terrific. At my own exhibit, I really enjoyed that so many of them appreciated my handhelds collection and asked smart questions. Looking over the 20 or so devices that I brought along, many commented that they owned this or that device back when it was new. But even among them, most were suprised to learn some of the virtually unknown PDA functions and options that existed in the mid-to-late 1970s and early 1980s. That's definitely inspiration for me to keep collecting and researching. - Vince Briel's Replica 1. Vince, congratulations on winning the "Best of Show" award! Vince's exhibit area was right next to mine, so during the rare slow times, I talked to him about his project. My soldering skills are shaky, but I'm strongly considering attemting the Apple 1 replica build. Vince generously took the time to explain every step to me, in terms I could understand. If I do attempt the project, then I'll record every detail here in the newsletter. The moral? If I can do it, anyone can, trust me! Vince also impressed everyone with his industrial design skills, as the Replica 1 he brought along has a case made of see-through plexiglass, with a hinged top cover. As cool as an Apple 1 replica is, this made it even nicer. - Friday night's VCF party. At the day's end, almost all of the exhibitors and their guests -- about 25 people -- went to dinner together at a local steakhouse, with the outside modeled to look like railroad cars. Beer, many laughs, and the meat all came in large quantities. Of course vintage computer collectors come in all shapes and sizes -- and boy, can some of them eat! I'll refrain from naming the guilty, you know who you are. :) - Saturday's talks and exhibit. We all dragged ourselves out of bed Saturday morning and, once again, encroached on Sun. The highlight from Saturday was Art Hill's talk, "A Personal History of Computing," during which the 82-year-old Hill (who has more energy than me, at 29!) wowed everyone with his stories. To me the most exciting part was that Hill actually worked with and learned from J. Presper Eckert and John W. Mauchly, the builders of ENIAC. He also worked with the famous Navy Adm. Grace Hopper, who was largely responsible for COBOL, the "common business-oriented language," who but did not (despite the myth) coin the term "bug" in reference to computing. Some of Art's stories were wilder than others,but as he admits, age has a way of muddying the details. I missed the next talk on the IBM/360 by Lawrence Wilkinson, as I had to prepare for my own talk that afternoon, and I missed the final talk, from John Titus who developed the Mark-8 hobbyist kit. (I'd like to think my own talk on the history of PDAs was a show "highlight" for others! A good sign came through the www.classiccmp.org mailing list last night, as an attendee mentioned on the list that "There is actually an HP41 calculator here," referring to my own exhibit. So it's not just computer collectors that come in all shapes and sizes -- it's the computers too.) Overall, Saturday's attendence at the exhibits was a little slower than Friday's, but it gave the exhibitors themselves a chance to check out each other's work. I brought home many good memories and a few new toys from VCF East. After dinner Friday night, I helped classiccmp.org administrator Jay West and others swap some DEC and other gear between minivans and trailers in the Marriott parking lot -- we sure hope Jay made it home safely to Kansas City, after his flat-tire adventures during the inbound trip on I-84 in Connecticut. It was also great to see newsletter founder Mike Nadeau sell many copies of his book, "Collectible Microcomputers." I experienced a really funny moment as well: at one point Friday, Sellam walked over to my exhibit and, not joking, asked "Got a calculator?" Given the nature of vintage PDAs, I had about 15 calculators! Finding one that was JUST a simple calculator and had fresh batteries was the challenge, but we eventually did. Many of us went to dinner again on Saturday night, and once again I was wowed by the computing stories (and appetites!) of my fellow hobbyists. As for toys, I acquired a TRS-80 Model 100, and a DVD copy of Steve Wozniak's speech from last year's K-Fest event. (Many VCF attendees will be at the Apple II event this week, including VCF Europa leader Hans Franke and Commodore 64 heroine Jeri Ellsworth. See www.kfest.org for more information.) ==================================================== See you all at VCF 7 -- just THREE MONTHS away! - Evan Koblentz From wacarder at usit.net Sun Jul 18 21:44:29 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: RK05 stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I reracked these drives into a tall cabinet today so I could get to the tops and bottoms of both drives. In the process of moving the drives, I unhooked the cable that connects the two drives together (drive 0 and drive 1). I decided to check the drive that did not have a cable connected to it (drive 1), and it magically works now (in standalone mode). The drive spins up, the heads move in, no terrible sounds or anything like that. The READY and ON-CYL lights light up and all appears to be fine. The other drive that still has the cables connected to it still didn't spin up. I then removed the M930C terminator card from drive 1 and put it in drive zero, removed the card that had the controller cable attached to it (M993 RK8E cable), and powered it up. I then tried loading a pack and this drive works too, spins up, moves the heads and lights the READY and ON-CYL lights. Next step is to make sure these drives have the right cards to be able to hook up to an RK11 controller (the M993 having RK8E written on it doesn't sound good), install the RK11 card set in my 11/34 and connect the drives and see if RSTS/E recognizes it. I do suppose that I should do some cleaning on these drives because although the foam hasn't turned to goop yet, I do see a few small fragments of the foam laying inside the drive area that I didn't see before. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 12:26 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: RK05 stuff (was RE: cctalk Digest, Vol 10, Issue 74) > > I've tried both of my RK05 drives. They power on fine. Blower > seems to be fine. I put a pack in, press the run switch. The > motor never comes on that turns the drive. The same thing > happens in both drives. Neither drive will start spinning at > all. > > Any ideas on where to start looking? Firslty, put a termionator card (M930) into one of the cable connector slots if the drive is not cabled up anyway with a terminator in the 'out' slot of the last drive. I seem to rememebr that RK05s do odd things if they're not terminated (and you might also want to try it with the drive disconnected from the controller, with just a terminator, in case it's something like the ACLO/DCLO lines on the bus being asserted). Now, the spindle motor is controlled by a relay on top of the PSU. From what you say in another message that relay is never being energised. The next thing to do is to trace the relay coil signal back to the logic and to find out what has to be asserted for the relay to pull in. There's certainly an interlock switch circuit -- 2 switches in series IIRC that detect that there's a pack in and the door is closed. Obviosuly the RUN switch has to be on. And I think there's some kind of power-OK line. Maybe more. Now find out which (if any) of those signals are not being asserted (if all of them are, then trace through the logic itself, of course), and find out why not. Maybe just a switch that's not closing, maybe more. If you need more help, I'll dig out the prints, but it's a little late to do that tonight :-) -tony From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sun Jul 18 23:10:47 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: Apple IIe ROM In-Reply-To: <200407151929.45809.kenziem@sympatico.ca> References: <200407151929.45809.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200407190010.47785.kenziem@sympatico.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 15 July 2004 19:29, Mike Kenzie wrote: > Tested a bunch of Apple II machines (and clones ) today and found 2 with > a funny ROM > > 8409 G > C19746 > 341-0168-A > Apple 83 > > the start screen is APPLE with two linked S's and a degree symbol > A machine on E-Bay adverticed as having a switchable French Canadian keyboard mentioned a switch underneath the keyboard and low and behold there is a switch. And when I flip the switch I get the usual apple ][ screen. Both machines that had the funny ROM have the switch. Also found a reference to a 0341-0161 ROM as being a German version. Does anyone know of a reference that might list ALL the ROMs produced for the IIe - -- Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA+0nHLPrIaE/xBZARAhaVAJ4uosaHQfN3BFZ2gFqyWWAHpD8bUACfabIe GxlYOMrLstF86JjKfeCHHaw= =u9d3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Jul 18 23:10:49 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: RK05 stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040719041049.GA10522@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Jul 18, 2004 at 10:44:29PM -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > Next step is to make sure these drives have the right cards > to be able to hook up to an RK11 controller (the M993 having > RK8E written on it doesn't sound good) The same mylar ribbon cable you use to interconnect the drives is what you need to connect the first drive to an RK11C or RK11D controller. The RK8E has no way to provide the same kind of physical interconnect, so it has a pair of multi-wire ribbon cables and the M993 paddle card (as does the RKV11D, for much the same reason). > I do suppose that I should do some cleaning on these drives > because although the foam hasn't turned to goop yet, I do > see a few small fragments of the foam laying inside the drive > area that I didn't see before. That will be important before you even *think* about loading a pack. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 19-Jul-2004 04:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -72.2 F (-57.9 C) Windchill -118.4 F (-83.59 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 19.1 kts Grid 018 Barometer 651.4 mb (11722. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From bob at jfcl.com Sun Jul 18 23:43:46 2004 From: bob at jfcl.com (Robert Armstrong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: Why does my KDF11 cause spurious traps to 4?? Message-ID: <000a01c46d4a$fd6aaa10$ba02010a@LIFEBOOK> Hello, I've got a 11/23+ in a BA23 and when running RT11 I get spurious and unexpected traps to 4. After while I noticed that it will do the same thing while running the extended memory test built into the boot ROMs. I pulled out all the cards except the CPU and the memory and it still does it, and after swapping memory with another QBUS system that's known to work I've pretty much come to the conclusion that it's not the memory. Bummer - looks like the KDF11 is at fault. I actually cobbled the system together myself from an assortment of cards and parts, so it's not unlikely that I did something wrong. Is there any obvious mistake or mis-setting of the KDF11 jumpers that would cause this, or is my CPU card hosed? Thanks, Bob Armstrong From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jul 19 02:04:54 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: Connecting a FPF11 to a 11/23+ (Dumb Questions) In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Re: Connecting a FPF11 to a 11/23+ (Dumb Questions)" (Jul 18, 23:18) References: <001d01c46c8a$444c3c30$ba02010a@LIFEBOOK> <10407180816.ZM18327@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <10407182322.ZM18879@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20040718231849.GB9920@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <10407190804.ZM19235@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 18, 23:18, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Sun, Jul 18, 2004 at 11:22:05PM +0100, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Yes, for an 11/23. For an 11/24, no, it goes after the KT24 and the > > memory but before anything else. > > I haven't seen the FPF11, but mightn't it have different grant jumpers > (zero ohm resistors near the fingers) for installation in an 11/23 and > an 11/24? Yes, it has a total of 12 jumpers. All the ones that are "in" for Unibus should be "out" for Qbus, and vice-versa. Jumper: W1 W2 W3 W4 W5 W6 W7 W8 W9 W10 W11 W12 Unibus: R R I R R I I I I R I I QBus: I I R I I I R R I I R R (I = inserted R = removed) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From GOOI at oce.nl Mon Jul 19 03:47:16 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: RK05 stuff Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102CE0@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Ashley, perhaps "kicking an open door", but you know that the 4 cards of the RK11 go in a *dedicated* 4-slot backplane? *not* in 4 SPC slots of the 11/34 backplane. For more info on the PDP-11/34, check my website www.pdp-11.nl and click the 11/34 link. There is also some stuff about the floating point processor and the cache module, including the power distribution when you want to install both options. [reminds me, there are still a few missing pictures of the OTT, over-the-top connectors; somewhere on my (too long) to-do list]. - Henk, PA8PDP. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ashley Carder > Sent: maandag 19 juli 2004 4:44 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: RK05 stuff > > > I reracked these drives into a tall cabinet today so I could > get to the tops and bottoms of both drives. In the process > of moving the drives, I unhooked the cable that connects the > two drives together (drive 0 and drive 1). I decided to > check the drive that did not have a cable connected to it > (drive 1), and it magically works now (in standalone mode). > The drive spins up, the heads move in, no terrible > sounds or anything like that. The READY and ON-CYL lights > light up and all appears to be fine. The other drive that > still has the cables connected to it still didn't spin up. > I then removed the M930C terminator card from drive 1 and > put it in drive zero, removed the card that had the > controller cable attached to it (M993 RK8E cable), and > powered it up. I then tried loading a pack and this drive > works too, spins up, moves the heads and lights the READY > and ON-CYL lights. > > Next step is to make sure these drives have the right cards > to be able to hook up to an RK11 controller (the M993 having > RK8E written on it doesn't sound good), install the > RK11 card set in my 11/34 and connect the drives and see > if RSTS/E recognizes it. > > I do suppose that I should do some cleaning on these drives > because although the foam hasn't turned to goop yet, I do > see a few small fragments of the foam laying inside the drive > area that I didn't see before. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 12:26 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: RK05 stuff (was RE: cctalk Digest, Vol 10, Issue 74) > > > > > > I've tried both of my RK05 drives. They power on fine. Blower > > seems to be fine. I put a pack in, press the run switch. The > > motor never comes on that turns the drive. The same thing > > happens in both drives. Neither drive will start spinning at > > all. > > > > Any ideas on where to start looking? > > Firslty, put a termionator card (M930) into one of the cable > connector > slots if the drive is not cabled up anyway with a terminator > in the 'out' > slot of the last drive. I seem to rememebr that RK05s do odd > things if > they're not terminated (and you might also want to try it > with the drive > disconnected from the controller, with just a terminator, in > case it's > something like the ACLO/DCLO lines on the bus being asserted). > > Now, the spindle motor is controlled by a relay on top of the > PSU. From > what you say in another message that relay is never being > energised. The > next thing to do is to trace the relay coil signal back to > the logic and > to find out what has to be asserted for the relay to pull in. There's > certainly an interlock switch circuit -- 2 switches in series > IIRC that > detect that there's a pack in and the door is closed. > Obviosuly the RUN > switch has to be on. And I think there's some kind of power-OK line. > Maybe more. Now find out which (if any) of those signals are > not being > asserted (if all of them are, then trace through the logic itself, of > course), and find out why not. Maybe just a switch that's not > closing, > maybe more. > > If you need more help, I'll dig out the prints, but it's a > little late to > do that tonight :-) > > -tony > > From bert at brothom.nl Mon Jul 19 06:01:18 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: AT&T 3B2/400 searching of components References: <200407182140.i6ILeYbY039472@huey.classiccmp.org> <001b01bc55b2$59f50220$0f02a8c0@WorkGroup> Message-ID: <40FBA9FE.363EC400@brothom.nl> This message is dated 19970430, so I'm not sure this is a "real" message or just an old one popping up. SP wrote: > > Hello. Today I began to work with one AT&T 3B2/400 received from Austria > this week, together with five terminals (4 Amtec and 1 Olivetti). The system Is this perhaps a VME bus system? If so, I have docs for that, including schematics, Unix manuals, etc. The Unix manuals say V5 Release 3.1. There's even one manual that has AT&T 3B2 in the title. I might have such a machine myself, but to me it's just a VME bus computer in a fancy case. It is labelled "Microproject". Regards, Bert From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jul 19 05:51:05 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: Acorn Cambridge Workstations In-Reply-To: <1090150980.26421.11.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <20040717024415.16C883C6B@spies.com><33789.192.168.0.11.1090149808.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> <1090150980.26421.11.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <29841.80.242.32.51.1090234265.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> >> http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Acorn/acws.htm > > D'oh! That link doesn't work... and I still haven't actually seen any > pics of the machine :-) I am a doofus - it's .html and not .htm. Curse micros~1 and it's stupid naming conventions! > btw, spare case will be looking for a home in case anyone wants to bodge > together their own ACW/ABC. Just give me a while as I believe the > previous owner of the machine said that the spare case has a screen in > it which is in much better condition than the ABC 210's, so I'll probs > swap them over. Yours is the ABC-310 innit? I thought the 210 was the workstation.....not that it matters of course :) There's a screen in the case aye, and an analogue board that's different to the rest of 'em. > something nasty going on with the ROMs on the B+ side (which is going to > be more tricky, given that it's perhaps the last of its kind...) Fingers crossed then, though can't I dump the ROMs of mine? I thought the main difference between the 210 and 310 was a 286 copro and DOS instead of the 32016 and PANOS. > Actually, if you can get the 210 to me this week and I can get it > running then I can bring it along to the CGE show. I'll be there on the > Saturday for sure, not sure about the Sunday yet. You can come and get it any night this week, just give me a call and I'll give you directions. Help me disassemble it for photographic purposes.... > Having said that, the car's already totally full of stuff for the > stand... hmm... I'm sure there's summat that can be sacrificed for the ABC :) Between us we might be duplicating stuff so we can sort it out when you get the machine. > btw, you were looking for an Atari 800 weren't you? Think I've found one > that's looking for a good home. Watch this space. Cool. That'll only leave the 1400XL then (and 1450XLD, hehehe) but I s'pose I've got not much hope of getting my paws on one of those! -- adrian/witchy Binary Dinosaurs owner/curator www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UKs biggest home computer collection? From wmaddox at pacbell.net Mon Jul 19 08:07:48 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: Computer history -- visiting the UK Message-ID: <20040719130748.7839.qmail@web81306.mail.yahoo.com> I will be leaving at the end of the week for a couple of weeks in the UK, mostly London and surroundings, but with a few days planned in Manchester and York. I am planning to visit Bletchley Park and the Babbage exhibit at the London Science Museum. I have heard that the Manchester Baby replica at the Manchester Museum of Science and Industry is run weekly (or was at one time). I couldn't find any mention of it on the museum's website. Does anyone know the current status and schedule? Any pointers to other exhibits or locations that are a must-see? --Bill From wacarder at usit.net Mon Jul 19 08:16:33 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: RK05 interfacing to unibus PDP-11 (was RK05 stuff) References: Message-ID: <000601c46d92$9d698e90$99100f14@mcothran1> Now that it appears that my two RK05J drives are fundamentally sound, I'm ready to move on to the next step(s). Can someone here on the list supply me with the numbers of each of the cards in the RK05 drive's logic unit, for both the PDP-11 and the PDP-8? I need to verify what's in my two drives and make sure that they are correct for the unibus PDP-11. Also, the numbers of each of the cards in the RK11 controller set for a unibus PDP-11 (11/40, 11/34, etc). I have a 3-card set that I got from someone and it's supposed to be the RK11 controller card set, and the three cards are connected together on top by some type of connector. Based on what I reading here, the RK11 set is made up of four cards, not 3, and needs a dedicated backplane. Can someone elaborate on the details of connecting RK05 drives to a unibus pdp-11 or point me to someplace that explains this in detail? What does the RK11 backplane look like, how/where do you connect it to the other backplane, etc. Thanks for any advice that anyone can offer! Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Carder" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 10:44 PM Subject: RE: RK05 stuff > I reracked these drives into a tall cabinet today so I could > get to the tops and bottoms of both drives. In the process > of moving the drives, I unhooked the cable that connects the > two drives together (drive 0 and drive 1). I decided to > check the drive that did not have a cable connected to it > (drive 1), and it magically works now (in standalone mode). > The drive spins up, the heads move in, no terrible > sounds or anything like that. The READY and ON-CYL lights > light up and all appears to be fine. The other drive that > still has the cables connected to it still didn't spin up. > I then removed the M930C terminator card from drive 1 and > put it in drive zero, removed the card that had the > controller cable attached to it (M993 RK8E cable), and > powered it up. I then tried loading a pack and this drive > works too, spins up, moves the heads and lights the READY > and ON-CYL lights. > > Next step is to make sure these drives have the right cards > to be able to hook up to an RK11 controller (the M993 having > RK8E written on it doesn't sound good), install the > RK11 card set in my 11/34 and connect the drives and see > if RSTS/E recognizes it. > > I do suppose that I should do some cleaning on these drives > because although the foam hasn't turned to goop yet, I do > see a few small fragments of the foam laying inside the drive > area that I didn't see before. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 12:26 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: RK05 stuff (was RE: cctalk Digest, Vol 10, Issue 74) > > > > > > I've tried both of my RK05 drives. They power on fine. Blower > > seems to be fine. I put a pack in, press the run switch. The > > motor never comes on that turns the drive. The same thing > > happens in both drives. Neither drive will start spinning at > > all. > > > > Any ideas on where to start looking? > > Firslty, put a termionator card (M930) into one of the cable connector > slots if the drive is not cabled up anyway with a terminator in the 'out' > slot of the last drive. I seem to rememebr that RK05s do odd things if > they're not terminated (and you might also want to try it with the drive > disconnected from the controller, with just a terminator, in case it's > something like the ACLO/DCLO lines on the bus being asserted). > > Now, the spindle motor is controlled by a relay on top of the PSU. From > what you say in another message that relay is never being energised. The > next thing to do is to trace the relay coil signal back to the logic and > to find out what has to be asserted for the relay to pull in. There's > certainly an interlock switch circuit -- 2 switches in series IIRC that > detect that there's a pack in and the door is closed. Obviosuly the RUN > switch has to be on. And I think there's some kind of power-OK line. > Maybe more. Now find out which (if any) of those signals are not being > asserted (if all of them are, then trace through the logic itself, of > course), and find out why not. Maybe just a switch that's not closing, > maybe more. > > If you need more help, I'll dig out the prints, but it's a little late to > do that tonight :-) > > -tony > > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jul 19 09:17:02 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: Computer history -- visiting the UK In-Reply-To: <20040719130748.7839.qmail@web81306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040719130748.7839.qmail@web81306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <14880.80.242.32.51.1090246622.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> > I will be leaving at the end of the week for > a couple of weeks in the UK, mostly London and > surroundings, but with a few days planned in > Manchester and York. Nice timing! > I am planning to visit Bletchley Park and the > Babbage exhibit at the London Science Museum. Yes, get to Bletchley before it gets sold off or knocked down or something. Last time I was there it was looking very run-down and uncared for. Don't look in any of the windows of the buildings making up block D (the middle set) because the sight will depress you beyond words. > I have heard that the Manchester Baby replica > at the Manchester Museum of Science and Industry > is run weekly (or was at one time). I couldn't > find any mention of it on the museum's website. > Does anyone know the current status and schedule? Nope, sorry. > Any pointers to other exhibits or locations that > are a must-see? The Classic Gaming Expo (UK version) is on this weekend at the Croydon Fairfield Hall conference centre in south east London, more info is at http://www.cgexpo-uk.com/. At least me and Jules R will be there exhibiting along with a host of others so there's something to do straight away, as well as the London Science museum of course. cheers, -- adrian/witchy Binary Dinosaurs owner/curator www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UKs biggest home computer collection? From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jul 19 09:50:57 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: MTI QTS30 SCSI QBUS module In-Reply-To: <200407180708.25753.lbickley@bickleywest.com> References: <200407180708.25753.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: >I have a MTI QTS30 SCSI QBUS module - but no docs. The port-vax list states >the following: > >QTS30 >-------- >Type: disk controller Bus: Q-bus >Bus protocol: E(?) Vendor: MTI >Specification: SCSI disks >Last updated: 1998-02-06 > >But has no information regarding jumper settings, capabilities, etc. Any help >would be appreciated!!! Have you done a Google search of the USENET archives? ISTR a discussion of this board a year or two ago. In later years MTI sold rebadged Viking QDT's, but I believe this predates that. If you could put a picture online somewhere it might help us to ID the board better for you. The doc's for the Viking board can be found at ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/dan/ Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Jul 19 10:29:07 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: Dragon 64 fixing... Message-ID: <1090250947.27351.99.camel@weka.localdomain> Finally found the five minutes to see if my Dragon 64 works. It doesn't. I get a white screen with a black border (which seems healthy enough), then in the centre of the screen a few random characters (some with inverse video). Occasionally after a reset the random characters don't stay together but occupy random locations toward the middle of the screen. I assume (having never seen an operational D32 or 64 before) that it should say "Dragon 64" or something, implying that character generation is screwed - but why the random characters should jump positions sometimes I don't know (unless the design of the reset circuitry is not very good) One obvious fault I found was that pin 6 of the 40 pin 6847 IC was broken and had been badly repaired in the past (such that I don't think the joint had held), but fixing that hasn't made a difference. The fact it was ever broken at all suggests that someone's been fiddling inside the machine though... I notice IC17 (a socketed 18 pin DIL) is missing - should it be? None of the DRAM is getting warm (suggesting failure), and the fact that there's something approaching normality on the display suggest that the power rails are OK and the CPU's at least operating. Of course presumably a RAM fault could quite easily explain random characters and locations though, but doesn't explain the stable white screen / black border (unless that's done in low level video hardware). Any ideas? If I can get this thing running then it's another potential for the CGE show this coming weekend. cheers, Jules From hansp at citem.org Mon Jul 19 10:46:15 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: Computer history -- visiting the UK In-Reply-To: <20040719130748.7839.qmail@web81306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040719130748.7839.qmail@web81306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40FBECC7.4030100@citem.org> William Maddox wrote: > I have heard that the Manchester Baby replica > at the Manchester Museum of Science and Industry > is run weekly (or was at one time). I couldn't > find any mention of it on the museum's website. > Does anyone know the current status and schedule? You need to look at the CCS website : http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/CCS/ssem/ssemhome.htm Hmm, its not there either : From Resurrection, the Bulletin of the Computer COnservation Society : Every Tuesday at 1200 and 1400 Demonstration of the replica Small Scale Experimenatl Machine at Manchester Museum of Science and Industry > Any pointers to other exhibits or locations that > are a must-see? From cheri-post at web.de Mon Jul 19 11:34:33 2004 From: cheri-post at web.de (Pierre Gebhardt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: Unisys System 80 pictures available Message-ID: <430912708@web.de> Hi all ! Several of you were interested in pictures of the Unisys Mainframe. In the upcoming days, I'll be able to send you a description of the hardware (I don't have access to the descriptions at the moment). It would be nice, if somebody could put these pics online in a computer museum or so 'cause I haven't seen pictures of the System 80 on the internet so far. Greetings Pierre ____________________________________________________ Aufnehmen, abschicken, nah sein - So einfach ist WEB.DE Video-Mail: http://freemail.web.de/?mc=021200 From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Jul 19 11:50:04 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: Dragon 64 fixing... In-Reply-To: <1090250947.27351.99.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1090250947.27351.99.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1090255804.27351.110.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-07-19 at 15:29, Jules Richardson wrote: > Finally found the five minutes to see if my Dragon 64 works. It doesn't. After some further digging on the web, the board in my machine is an issue 2A, and is *not* the same layout as the one at: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/mpc.fab/dragon/photos/dragon64carte.jpg ... however it's roughly the same and my 'missing' IC17 is approximately where IC39 is in that photo, just below the ROMs. They both happen to be 18 pins, and so quite possibly the same chip - unfortunately I can't read the number off that photo. Any idea what it does? Unfortunately the only D64 schematics I've found on the 'net are mono GIF images of such unusable quality as to be a total waste of the host's webspace :-( cheers, Jules From aek at spies.com Mon Jul 19 12:32:35 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: Unisys System 80 pictures available Message-ID: <20040719173235.41B793CB0@spies.com> In the upcoming days, I'll be able to send you a description of the hardware -- Is there any documentation with the system? The System 80 was the last descendent of the Univac 9000 series, a 360-ish 32 bit architecture. I had a little exposure to a 9300, which was very much like a 360 with the exception of I/O I'm sure all of this evolved as did the 360 to 370 over 20+ years. From trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Mon Jul 19 10:06:14 2004 From: trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (trash3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: Why does my KDF11 cause spurious traps to 4?? Message-ID: <040719110614.12018@splab.cas.neu.edu> My first guess is a bus error. Is it a real qbus with a terminator on the far end? Joe Heck From coredump at gifford.co.uk Mon Jul 19 13:38:55 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: Computer history -- visiting the UK In-Reply-To: <20040719130748.7839.qmail@web81306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040719130748.7839.qmail@web81306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40FC153F.1020705@gifford.co.uk> William Maddox wrote: > I am planning to visit Bletchley Park and the > Babbage exhibit at the London Science Museum. In the Science Museum, look out for the "Making of the Modern World" gallery on the ground floor, towards the back. I think you go through the Space gallery to get to it from the main entrance, after you pass the steam engines. There's an Apple I, the Pilot Ace, a Cray-1 and the Pegasus. Not sure if/when the Pegasus is got up and running. In the basement, there are a few smaller home computers and game consoles in "The Secrect Life of the Home". Then there's the main Computing gallery upstairs, which I think is where you'll find the Babbage Engine. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jul 19 13:36:05 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: Dragon 64 fixing... In-Reply-To: Jules Richardson "Dragon 64 fixing..." (Jul 19, 15:29) References: <1090250947.27351.99.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <10407191936.ZM20006@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 19, 15:29, Jules Richardson wrote: > > Finally found the five minutes to see if my Dragon 64 works. It doesn't. I have a Dragon 32,. working last time I checked. If you're coming here this week, you can borrow it for comparison testing if you like. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From marvin at rain.org Mon Jul 19 13:59:03 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: DARPA Grand Challenge Conference Message-ID: <40FC19F7.11484A71@rain.org> Anyone else going to the DARPA Grand Challenge Conference on Saturday, August 14th? Aside from the fact that a number of lightweights (including CMU Robotics) entered last year and are presumed to enter again this year, I think it would be totally cool to have a robotic vehicle powered by classic computers :)! A ton of information if you use Google, but the main site is: http://www.grandchallenge.org/ p.s. - The site doesn't work with Netscape 4.73 but works fine with (ugh) IE. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Jul 19 14:07:32 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: Dragon 64 fixing... In-Reply-To: <10407191936.ZM20006@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <1090250947.27351.99.camel@weka.localdomain> <10407191936.ZM20006@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <1090264052.27351.170.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-07-19 at 18:36, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jul 19, 15:29, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > > Finally found the five minutes to see if my Dragon 64 works. It > doesn't. > > I have a Dragon 32,. working last time I checked. If you're coming > here this week, you can borrow it for comparison testing if you like. ta for the offer - I neglected to mention that I actually *have* a Dragon 32 too, again which I'd never found the time to test! After getting frustrated with the '64 I tried it, and it runs - but starts with a green background and startup text in the top-left, which seems to be different to what the '64 is trying to do... Now, the only 18 pin IC on the '32 is an LM1889, which apparently is some sort of TV modulator IC. If that's what's missing on this D64 it might explain my dodgy video output :-) (although without it I'm pretty surprised I'm seeing anything remotely stable on the display; possibly the machine has some other fault too) If someone can confirm that my missing chip *is* an LM1889 then I can desolder the one from the '32 and try it in the '64... cheers Jules From jbmcb at hotmail.com Mon Jul 19 15:00:17 2004 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: MI Property Depot Report Message-ID: Went to the U of M property disposition the other day, they had an SGI POWER series rackmount server (4G3XX something) for $1000, and an IBM S/390 Paralell Generation 4 mainframe with transaction processors (two racks of them) for $1500. I'd pick it up in a heartbeat if I had any way of lugging the beast back to Detroit. They also had a few Sparc 20's for $25, some Sony video editing equipment, a ton of DLT and CD-ROM autoloaders for fairly cheap, and a bunch of those Sparc IPX sized Sun hard drive cases for $10 (With HD's) I picked up a handful of PCI audio/SCSI/ethernet cards for $2 each, a Sony WebTV, and a couple of Cisco EISA FDDI cards to expand my tangled nest of network standards run through my home. Cheers! _________________________________________________________________ Planning a family vacation? Check out the MSN Family Travel guide! http://dollar.msn.com From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Mon Jul 19 15:21:25 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: Fw: [dragonuser] Help with Dragon *Beta* Main Board Message-ID: <007a01c46dce$124f6460$0200a8c0@geoff> This appeared on the dragonuser site - looks like a very interesting machine. He's based in Wiltshire but does travel around a bit if anyones able to help with basic faultfinding . By the way Jules - Dragon diagrams are available from the Dragonuser group. Geoff. P.S. Had a good dig around in the front part of the loft but no Nascom yet , although I did find my two Nascom Imp Printers - chassis only , bought a long time after Nascom ceased to exist. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard" To: Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 1:37 PM Subject: [dragonuser] Help with Dragon *Beta* Main Board Hi all, I have come into possession of a Dragon Data Beta (aka. The ?2500 business machine) prototype main board. The sad news is that appears to be dead. Is there anyone out there who could possibly help in getting this beastie back into life?? (If it ever worked) Serious reverse engineering and electronic skills required! I've had a poke about with an oscilloscope and it is clocking OK and there is life on the data buses. I have uploaded a few pics into the photos section. For those interested it appears to have the following features: ? 256 K RAM ? Twin 6809E's clocked at 1.8Mhz ? Onboard Floppy controller (3.5" Single sided drives) ? Onboard RS232 ? Optical interface ? External Keyboard (no keyboard L ) ? Unkown DIN connector - Mouse? Light Pen?? ? No built in Drag 64 mode! Only an OS-9 boot ROM (ROM dumps available). Simon Hardy is also holding (most of) a Dragon Data Alpha (aka Professional) prototype for me. More info on this in the coming months when we can actually get a power supply attached. BFN Richard www.dragondata.co.uk ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/16uqlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dragonuser/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dragonuser-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From allain at panix.com Mon Jul 19 15:40:45 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chip setsay?! References: <002d01c46ae6$ccb2aaa0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: <006001c46dd0$aaeb77c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chip set say?! Not foul, but, 20 years ago when I tried, I couldn't get the Votrax to say "computer" instead it would say "compooter", for that spelling. So, how do you have a Votrax type-n-talk say computer? John A. From allain at panix.com Mon Jul 19 15:43:09 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0, Day one. References: Message-ID: <006801c46dd1$0104c9e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Thanks to Hans to loaning me Art Hill's 3 1974 Datamations, I was able to see an ad* for the Digital graphic15 machine. This may be what some people think of when they say spacewar on d|i|g|i|t|a|l, one of the vector tubes. Tufts University let the undecided student candidates play on one during the 75-76 campus tour. I very nearly signed on with them just for that demo. - - - I want to make a website of my photos of the VCF. I hope to have it up on Wednesday. I had a hell of a nice time, more later. John A. *july 1974 p.136 From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Mon Jul 19 15:56:39 2004 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chipsetsay?! References: <002d01c46ae6$ccb2aaa0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> <006001c46dd0$aaeb77c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <063701c46dd2$e3582160$7900a8c0@athlon> Spell it rite- compewtor? DaveB NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: "ed sharpe" ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 8:40 AM Subject: Re: What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chipsetsay?! > > What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chip set say?! > > Not foul, but, 20 years ago when I tried, I couldn't get the Votrax > to say "computer" instead it would say "compooter", for that > spelling. So, how do you have a Votrax type-n-talk say computer? > > John A. > > > > From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Mon Jul 19 15:59:54 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: Dragon 64 fixing... References: <1090250947.27351.99.camel@weka.localdomain> <1090255804.27351.110.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <009401c46dd3$deda6c00$0200a8c0@geoff> It looks like your IC17 would be a LM1889 (or U1889 ) which is a TV video modulator - so of no real consequence if it's missing, as you're not watching through your tv aerial . Can't get to my Dragons to confirm this but I'm sure they'll know on the Dragonuser site. Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jules Richardson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 5:50 PM Subject: Re: Dragon 64 fixing... > On Mon, 2004-07-19 at 15:29, Jules Richardson wrote: > > Finally found the five minutes to see if my Dragon 64 works. It doesn't. > > After some further digging on the web, the board in my machine is an > issue 2A, and is *not* the same layout as the one at: > > http://perso.wanadoo.fr/mpc.fab/dragon/photos/dragon64carte.jpg > > ... however it's roughly the same and my 'missing' IC17 is approximately > where IC39 is in that photo, just below the ROMs. They both happen to be > 18 pins, and so quite possibly the same chip - unfortunately I can't > read the number off that photo. Any idea what it does? > > Unfortunately the only D64 schematics I've found on the 'net are mono > GIF images of such unusable quality as to be a total waste of the host's > webspace :-( > > cheers, > > Jules > From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Mon Jul 19 16:46:29 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: Dragon 64 fixing... References: <1090250947.27351.99.camel@weka.localdomain><10407191936.ZM20006@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <1090264052.27351.170.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <00db01c46dd9$e26f6ae0$0200a8c0@geoff> Sorry , now I'm getting confused . I was thinking of the 64k ramboard which had a composite video o/p IIRC. Ignore my other post therefore. You will need that lm1889.The text you should see will be a Dragondata copyright line with something like 16 basic assembler-copyright Microshaft - in top LH corner. The Dragon suffers from terrible dot-crawl interference and most people used to stick a 0.1uF cap across the colour s/c crystal to kill the colour - unless they were playing games. Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jules Richardson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 8:07 PM Subject: Re: Dragon 64 fixing... > Now, the only 18 pin IC on the '32 is an LM1889, which apparently is > some sort of TV modulator IC. If that's what's missing on this D64 it > might explain my dodgy video output :-) (although without it I'm pretty > surprised I'm seeing anything remotely stable on the display; possibly > the machine has some other fault too) > > If someone can confirm that my missing chip *is* an LM1889 then I can > desolder the one from the '32 and try it in the '64... > > cheers > > Jules > > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 19 17:34:10 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: RK05 interfacing to unibus PDP-11 (was RK05 stuff) In-Reply-To: <000601c46d92$9d698e90$99100f14@mcothran1> from "Ashley Carder" at Jul 19, 4 09:16:33 am Message-ID: > > Now that it appears that my two RK05J drives are fundamentally > sound, I'm ready to move on to the next step(s). > > Can someone here on the list supply me with the numbers of each > of the cards in the RK05 drive's logic unit, for both the PDP-11 and > the PDP-8? I need to verify what's in my two drives and make I can look them up, but I can tell you that the cards (other than the interface cable) are the same for PDP8s and PDP11s. There are no changes (not even jumpers). The only thing you might want to fiddle with is the drive select, but I think your drives are 0 and 1 anyway. > sure that they are correct for the unibus PDP-11. > > Also, the numbers of each of the cards in the RK11 controller set > for a unibus PDP-11 (11/40, 11/34, etc). I have a 3-card set that > I got from someone and it's supposed to be the RK11 controller > card set, and the three cards are connected together on top by some > type of connector. Based on what I reading here, the RK11 set is I hate to say this, but that sounds suspiciously like an RK8e Omnibus controller for the PDP8. That is 3 quad cards with top connector blocks. I think one of the cards has edge connectors in all 8 possible positions (4 go into the backplane, 4 link to the other 2 cards with the top connectors). > made up of four cards, not 3, and needs a dedicated backplane. Yes, that's the RK11-D. A 4 slot hex-height backplane, specially wired. it takes 4 quad cards, and the A/B positions of each slot are used for Unibus In, Unibus Out, Drive bus and power. There's also the RK11-C, which is a 10.5" high rack-mount backplane full of small flip-chip cards. > > Can someone elaborate on the details of connecting RK05 drives to > a unibus pdp-11 or point me to someplace that explains this in detail? > What does the RK11 backplane look like, how/where do you > connect it to the other backplane, etc. It looks like normal 4 slot hex backplane. It mounts in the CPU box or an expansion box to the left of the last backplane you have. You put an M920 jumper between Unibus out (leftmost A/B) of you existing system and Unibus In (rightmost A/B) of the RK11-D backplane. The terminator goes in Unibus Out (leftmost A/B) of the RK11-D (OK, you might want to put it nearer the CPU to give it a higher interrupt and NPR priority, but that's not a real problem at the moment). You need a special power jumper cable that goes into connector A of one of the middle 2 slots -- I will have to check which one. It's shown in the printset, but note that DEC show the module positions looking at the _wiring side_ of the backplane, not at the sockets. This has caught me out!. The A/B connectors of the other middle slot take one end of the drive cable. Oh yes, the remaining connector -- B of the slot that takes the power cable -- is for a KM11 test board, and can be ignored at the moment. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 19 17:16:08 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: RK05 stuff In-Reply-To: from "Ashley Carder" at Jul 18, 4 10:44:29 pm Message-ID: > I then removed the M930C terminator card from drive 1 and > put it in drive zero, removed the card that had the > controller cable attached to it (M993 RK8E cable), and I seem to recall (vaguely) that that card can assert one of the power fail lines on the drive interface (there is a chip on it, after all) and that this might well stop the spindle relay from pulling in. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 19 17:17:26 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: RK05 stuff In-Reply-To: <20040719041049.GA10522@bos7.spole.gov> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 19, 4 04:10:49 am Message-ID: > The same mylar ribbon cable you use to interconnect the drives > is what you need to connect the first drive to an RK11C or RK11D > controller. It's also the same as a Unibus cable that you'd use between, say, a processor and an expansion cabinet. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 19 17:43:52 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:21 2005 Subject: Dragon 64 fixing... In-Reply-To: <1090250947.27351.99.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Jul 19, 4 03:29:07 pm Message-ID: > > > Finally found the five minutes to see if my Dragon 64 works. It doesn't. > > I get a white screen with a black border (which seems healthy enough), Unusual, I would have expected something in green (but see below!) > then in the centre of the screen a few random characters (some with > inverse video). Occasionally after a reset the random characters don't > stay together but occupy random locations toward the middle of the > screen. > > I assume (having never seen an operational D32 or 64 before) that it > should say "Dragon 64" or something, implying that character generation It'll give some kind of (Microsoft) BASIC sign-on message. I am not sure what the exact wording is. It should be black characters on a green background. > is screwed - but why the random characters should jump positions > sometimes I don't know (unless the design of the reset circuitry is not > very good) > > One obvious fault I found was that pin 6 of the 40 pin 6847 IC was DD3 -- Data bus bit 3. The machine will behave oddly without that! > broken and had been badly repaired in the past (such that I don't think > the joint had held), but fixing that hasn't made a difference. The fact > it was ever broken at all suggests that someone's been fiddling inside > the machine though... > > I notice IC17 (a socketed 18 pin DIL) is missing - should it be? The only 18 pin chip I cna think of in the Dragon is the colour encoder, presumably an LM1889 or something. The fact that it's not there could explain the lack of colour on the screen! > > None of the DRAM is getting warm (suggesting failure), and the fact that > there's something approaching normality on the display suggest that the > power rails are OK and the CPU's at least operating. The design is similar to the CoCo, and is close to the classic Motorola application circuit for the 6809/6883/6847. I would start with data sheets on those chips. Check the power lines (I think all you need is +5V in the 64), check the reset pin (is it stuck active?), check for CPU clocks (E and Q, sourced from the 6883 SAM), check for memory address activitiy, and so on. There's a lot you can do without a schematic. > > Of course presumably a RAM fault could quite easily explain random > characters and locations though, but doesn't explain the stable white > screen / black border (unless that's done in low level video hardware). It is. Look at the 6847 data sheet. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 19 17:52:19 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: Fw: [dragonuser] Help with Dragon *Beta* Main Board In-Reply-To: <007a01c46dce$124f6460$0200a8c0@geoff> from "Geoffrey Thomas" at Jul 19, 4 09:21:25 pm Message-ID: > This appeared on the dragonuser site - looks like a very interesting > machine. He's based in Wiltshire but does travel around a bit if anyones > able to help with basic faultfinding . [...] > Hi all, > > I have come into possession of a Dragon Data Beta (aka. The =A32500 > business machine) prototype main board. The sad news is that > appears to be dead. Is there anyone out there who could possibly > help in getting this beastie back into life?? (If it ever worked) > Serious reverse engineering and electronic skills required! I've This sounds like the sort of thing that I might be able to do (heck, it can't be worse to reverse-engineer than an HP9100...), and I know the 6809 and CoCo (which is similar to the Dragon) pretty well even if I say so myself. The problem is that it would not be a quick or simple job, and if it ended up on my bench for repair, I think I would be justified in charging (in some way) for doing it. Anyway, feel free to suggest me if you want. I can offer advice -- free -- by e-mail, as always, -tony From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Jul 19 18:13:29 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: RK05 interfacing to unibus PDP-11 (was RK05 stuff) In-Reply-To: <000601c46d92$9d698e90$99100f14@mcothran1> References: <000601c46d92$9d698e90$99100f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <20040719231329.GB13321@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Jul 19, 2004 at 09:16:33AM -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > Can someone here on the list supply me with the numbers of each > of the cards in the RK05 drive's logic unit, for both the PDP-11 and > the PDP-8? I need to verify what's in my two drives and make > sure that they are correct for the unibus PDP-11. There is no difference in RK05 logic when you use an RK05 drive with a PDP-11 controller or a PDP-8 controller. There are two different cable sets to hook a controller to the first drive, depending on which controller you have. If you have an RKV11D (Qbus), you'll have a 4-slot box with RK11D cards in it, plus a pair of 40-pin ribbon cables going to an M993 card in the first drive, and a pair of 40-pin ribbon cables going to a card that sits on the Qbus. The dual 40-pin ribbon cables and M993 paddle card are identical to what you need to hang a drive off of an RK8E, but that doesn't help you since you have a PDP-11. If you have an RK11C or RK11D (sounds like you have an RK11D), you'll have a mylar cable of the identical type that connects Unibus backplanes together, as well as RK05 drive to RK05 drive. That card fits into a dedicated slot in the RK11 backplane, not a Unibus slot. > Also, the numbers of each of the cards in the RK11 controller set > for a unibus PDP-11... Can someone elaborate on the details of > connecting RK05 drives to a unibus pdp-11... Do you have the engineering drawings for the RK11D? I would be surprised if they weren't on bitsavers. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 19-Jul-2004 23:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -88.3 F (-66.8 C) Windchill -124 F (-86.7 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8 kts Grid 077 Barometer 642.8 mb (12063. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From wacarder at usit.net Mon Jul 19 18:34:06 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: RK05 stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is the cable that connects the RK05 drives to the RK11-D unibus controller card set the same as the one used to connect the RK05 drive to the RK8-E omnibus controller card set? In other words, if I have two RK05 drives and the cables, will they connect to an RK11-D if I can find one? Tony, based on your previous post, it sounds like I may need an expansion box to put the RK11-D backplane and card set into. I do have numerous empty slots in my 11/34 backplane right now, but I'll have to see how many and I need to check on what all's in there and the power requirements for the RK11-D. I do have another empty BA11-K expansion box with a DD11-K backplane in it, and I'm not using it right now. It's just sitting empty, not plugged in, in an H960 cabinet. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 6:17 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: RK05 stuff > The same mylar ribbon cable you use to interconnect the drives > is what you need to connect the first drive to an RK11C or RK11D > controller. It's also the same as a Unibus cable that you'd use between, say, a processor and an expansion cabinet. -tony From wacarder at usit.net Mon Jul 19 18:45:11 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: RK05 interfacing to unibus PDP-11 (was RK05 stuff) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tony, thanks for the answers to my questions. I just came home from work and looked up the cards in the controller set and they are the RK8-E controller card ser for the PDP-8, (M7104, M7105, M7106C), not the RK11-D set for the PDP-11 (M7254, M7255, M7256, M7257). I now need to find the unibus card set and backplane. As for the cards inside the RK05 units, it sounds like the same card set interfaces to both the PDP-8 and PDP-11, so it sounds like I don't need to worry about them. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 6:34 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: RK05 interfacing to unibus PDP-11 (was RK05 stuff) > > Now that it appears that my two RK05J drives are fundamentally > sound, I'm ready to move on to the next step(s). > > Can someone here on the list supply me with the numbers of each > of the cards in the RK05 drive's logic unit, for both the PDP-11 and > the PDP-8? I need to verify what's in my two drives and make I can look them up, but I can tell you that the cards (other than the interface cable) are the same for PDP8s and PDP11s. There are no changes (not even jumpers). The only thing you might want to fiddle with is the drive select, but I think your drives are 0 and 1 anyway. > sure that they are correct for the unibus PDP-11. > > Also, the numbers of each of the cards in the RK11 controller set > for a unibus PDP-11 (11/40, 11/34, etc). I have a 3-card set that > I got from someone and it's supposed to be the RK11 controller > card set, and the three cards are connected together on top by some > type of connector. Based on what I reading here, the RK11 set is I hate to say this, but that sounds suspiciously like an RK8e Omnibus controller for the PDP8. That is 3 quad cards with top connector blocks. I think one of the cards has edge connectors in all 8 possible positions (4 go into the backplane, 4 link to the other 2 cards with the top connectors). > made up of four cards, not 3, and needs a dedicated backplane. Yes, that's the RK11-D. A 4 slot hex-height backplane, specially wired. it takes 4 quad cards, and the A/B positions of each slot are used for Unibus In, Unibus Out, Drive bus and power. There's also the RK11-C, which is a 10.5" high rack-mount backplane full of small flip-chip cards. > > Can someone elaborate on the details of connecting RK05 drives to > a unibus pdp-11 or point me to someplace that explains this in detail? > What does the RK11 backplane look like, how/where do you > connect it to the other backplane, etc. It looks like normal 4 slot hex backplane. It mounts in the CPU box or an expansion box to the left of the last backplane you have. You put an M920 jumper between Unibus out (leftmost A/B) of you existing system and Unibus In (rightmost A/B) of the RK11-D backplane. The terminator goes in Unibus Out (leftmost A/B) of the RK11-D (OK, you might want to put it nearer the CPU to give it a higher interrupt and NPR priority, but that's not a real problem at the moment). You need a special power jumper cable that goes into connector A of one of the middle 2 slots -- I will have to check which one. It's shown in the printset, but note that DEC show the module positions looking at the _wiring side_ of the backplane, not at the sockets. This has caught me out!. The A/B connectors of the other middle slot take one end of the drive cable. Oh yes, the remaining connector -- B of the slot that takes the power cable -- is for a KM11 test board, and can be ignored at the moment. -tony From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Jul 19 18:38:32 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: RK05 stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040719233832.GC13321@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Jul 19, 2004 at 07:34:06PM -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > Is the cable that connects the RK05 drives to the RK11-D unibus > controller card set the same as the one used to connect the RK05 > drive to the RK8-E omnibus controller card set? No. The cables are identical for an RKV11D (Qbus) and RK8E (OMNIBUS). To connect an RK11D to the first RK05 drive, you'll need the same type of mylar cables with integral dual-height ends that you use to connect two RK05 drives together, or two DD11CK or DD11DK Unibus backplanes together in different cabinets (a long version of an M9302, but I'm forgetting the official name). > In other words, > if I have two RK05 drives and the cables, will they connect to > an RK11-D if I can find one? If you have two drives and *two* white mylar cables, yes. If you only have the one white mylar cable, then you will need another one to hook up the second drive to the first one. > Tony, based on your previous post, it sounds like I may need an > expansion box to put the RK11-D backplane and card set into. Perhaps... if you don't have room in your CPU chassis for a 4-slot backplane (same size as a DD11CK, 1/2 size of a DD11DK), then you will need another BA11 (and another mylar cable) > I do have numerous empty slots in my 11/34 backplane right now, > but I'll have to see how many and I need to check on what all's > in there and the power requirements for the RK11-D. Empty slots in the DD11PK CPU backplane won't help. You can put "SPC" (Small Peripheral Controller) cards in there like an LP11 or an RX11, or even a RL11. What you need is an empty mounting spot in the CPU chassis _next to_ the DD11PK and an Unibus-to- Unibus jumper (M9302?) > I do have > another empty BA11-K expansion box with a DD11-K backplane in it, > and I'm not using it right now. It's just sitting empty, not > plugged in, in an H960 cabinet. That could be handy. You may or may not need the DD11DK backplane in that BA11-K, but that could be a place to put an RK11D backplane once you find one. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 19-Jul-2004 23:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -89.3 F (-67.4 C) Windchill -121.4 F (-85.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 6.3 kts Grid 081 Barometer 642.9 mb (12059. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 19 20:28:54 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chipsetsay?! In-Reply-To: <063701c46dd2$e3582160$7900a8c0@athlon> References: <002d01c46ae6$ccb2aaa0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> <006001c46dd0$aaeb77c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <063701c46dd2$e3582160$7900a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <20040719182028.R17221@newshell.lmi.net> I think that the syllables and phonemes that you would want would be more like: KOMM PYOO TURR I don't remember the special alphabet that Votrax used for their phonemes. (for example, "hello" was "H38L8^U") On Tue, 20 Jul 2004, Dave Brown wrote: > Spell it rite- compewtor? > > > > Not foul, but, 20 years ago when I tried, I couldn't get the Votrax > > to say "computer" instead it would say "compooter", for that > > spelling. So, how do you have a Votrax type-n-talk say computer? From sastevens at earthlink.net Mon Jul 19 21:15:56 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: OSI 560Z: DEC PDP-8 clone using 6100 & 6502 In-Reply-To: <20040717225623.6e20d31f.sastevens@earthlink.net> References: <20040718003834.5672.qmail@web50501.mail.yahoo.com> <20040717225623.6e20d31f.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20040719211556.70b35150.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 22:56:23 -0500 Scott Stevens wrote: > On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 17:38:34 -0700 (PDT) > Dave wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > Having recently acquired some 6100's (I know they're > > lesser than the 6120), I thought I'd try a PDP-8 > > project (I remember seeing these, but never got to > > play with one.) > > > > Thanks, > > > > Dave > > > > > > I have quantities of the 6100 processor chip (new in tubes) and have > been wanting to do a project with them as well. I have located all > the datasheets for the family and also the info for the Intercept and > Intercept, Jr. computers, which use the 6100. The serious constraints > of the 6100 processor are the small memory map. But with it's static > CMOS design it's a cool 'breadboard' computer because you can clock it > down to zero hertz. Just a followup on this, because someone requested further info in email. I have put up my IM6100 related datasheet collection on some personal webspace. These are scanned datasheets in PDF format, and include the datasheets for the whole 61xx line of chips. Please feel encouraged to download and mirror this info where you like. Also in the web folder is the usermanual (schematics, etc.) for the Intercept Jr. which is a Single Board computer made with the 6100. The url is: http://sasteven.multics.org/IM6100/ Please feel free to download and mirror these documents if you maintain a web or ftp archive where this info would be of value. I cannot permanently maintain these files on my personal webspace. I continue to be interested in learning what anybody else has done with the 6100 processor in a small breadboard-style design. I'm interested enough to supply anybody interested in pursuing this project with me a 6100 chip (I have NOS tubes of them) at a nominal cost of a few dollars plus shipping. I've been considering putting together some sort of a starter kit with some of the parts. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Jul 19 22:10:28 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chipsetsay?! Message-ID: <200407200310.UAA15006@clulw009.amd.com> Hi When I was at Intel, years ago, Litrtronix just came out with one of those four letter LED display modules. At the time, I had a 8741 in my desk drawer. I decided to make a random four letter word display. Between me and another fellow, we had about 15 or so good ones. Then we got help from this lady that worked as a tech writer. She brought the list to over 50. She calimed it was because she majored in English. I used the minimum of parts. As I recall, the uP used a coil for the frequency reference, powersupply for 5v, the display, a couple of capacitors, the display and the uP. Dwight >From: "Fred Cisin" > >I think that the syllables and phonemes that you would want >would be more like: >KOMM PYOO TURR >I don't remember the special alphabet that Votrax used >for their phonemes. (for example, "hello" was "H38L8^U") > > >On Tue, 20 Jul 2004, Dave Brown wrote: > >> Spell it rite- compewtor? >> > >> > Not foul, but, 20 years ago when I tried, I couldn't get the Votrax >> > to say "computer" instead it would say "compooter", for that >> > spelling. So, how do you have a Votrax type-n-talk say computer? > From wacarder at usit.net Mon Jul 19 22:50:10 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: RK05 interfacing to unibus PDP-11 (was RK05 stuff) In-Reply-To: <20040719231329.GB13321@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: I looked in my 11/34 CPU box. There's room for a 4-slot backplane. I currently have two 9-slot backplanes. Can I use an M9202 to connect the 9-slot backplane to the RK11-D 4-slot backplane? Also, I have not consulted the manuals to see how close I might get to overloading the CPU box. I have the following modules in my box, starting from the right as you look inside the box from the front: First backplane: 1) 11/34 CPU M8266 2) 11/34 CPU M8265) 3) M9312 bootstrap 3) M7859 console 4) M7856 - DL11-W SLU+clock 5) G727A 6) M7891 - 64k memory 7) M7891 - 64k memory 8) M7762 - RL01 controller 9) M9202 Second backplane: 1) M9202 2) G727A 3) G727A - Plan to put M7819 and M7814 in two of these slots 4) G727A 5) G727A 6) G7273 7) G727A 8) G727A 9) M9302 If I add the RK11-D backplane to the left of the other two, then can I use another M9202 to connect the two backplanes and move the M9302 to slot 4 of the RK11-D backplane? RK11-D backplane: 1) 2) 3) 4) ... Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 7:13 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: RK05 interfacing to unibus PDP-11 (was RK05 stuff) On Mon, Jul 19, 2004 at 09:16:33AM -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > Can someone here on the list supply me with the numbers of each > of the cards in the RK05 drive's logic unit, for both the PDP-11 and > the PDP-8? I need to verify what's in my two drives and make > sure that they are correct for the unibus PDP-11. There is no difference in RK05 logic when you use an RK05 drive with a PDP-11 controller or a PDP-8 controller. There are two different cable sets to hook a controller to the first drive, depending on which controller you have. If you have an RKV11D (Qbus), you'll have a 4-slot box with RK11D cards in it, plus a pair of 40-pin ribbon cables going to an M993 card in the first drive, and a pair of 40-pin ribbon cables going to a card that sits on the Qbus. The dual 40-pin ribbon cables and M993 paddle card are identical to what you need to hang a drive off of an RK8E, but that doesn't help you since you have a PDP-11. If you have an RK11C or RK11D (sounds like you have an RK11D), you'll have a mylar cable of the identical type that connects Unibus backplanes together, as well as RK05 drive to RK05 drive. That card fits into a dedicated slot in the RK11 backplane, not a Unibus slot. > Also, the numbers of each of the cards in the RK11 controller set > for a unibus PDP-11... Can someone elaborate on the details of > connecting RK05 drives to a unibus pdp-11... Do you have the engineering drawings for the RK11D? I would be surprised if they weren't on bitsavers. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 19-Jul-2004 23:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -88.3 F (-66.8 C) Windchill -124 F (-86.7 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8 kts Grid 077 Barometer 642.8 mb (12063. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 19 23:24:27 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: RK05 stuff In-Reply-To: from "Ashley Carder" at Jul 19, 4 07:34:06 pm Message-ID: > > Is the cable that connects the RK05 drives to the RK11-D unibus > controller card set the same as the one used to connect the RK05 > drive to the RK8-E omnibus controller card set? In other words, No. The RK8E (and RKV11-D Qbus controller) uses a cable which consists of 2 40 way ribbon cables with BERG connectors on the controller end and a PCB (with at least one chip on it) on the drive end. The RK11-C and RK11-D (2 versions of the Unibus controller) use a flat mylar cable with little PCBs (no componets) on each end. > if I have two RK05 drives and the cables, will they connect to > an RK11-D if I can find one? > > Tony, based on your previous post, it sounds like I may need an > expansion box to put the RK11-D backplane and card set into. I > do have numerous empty slots in my 11/34 backplane right now, It's not slots you need, since the RK11-D cards fit into specially wired slots in their own backplane. It's space for that special backplane. Aasumming your 11/34 is in a 10.5" mounting box, you have space in that for either 3 4-slot backplanes or 1 9-slot and 1 4-slot backplae along with the special 9-slot backplane that takes the CPU cards at the right hand side. If you still have space in the CPU box, then you can put the RK11-D there. If not, then you need an expansion box. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 19 23:35:27 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: RK05 interfacing to unibus PDP-11 (was RK05 stuff) In-Reply-To: from "Ashley Carder" at Jul 19, 4 11:50:10 pm Message-ID: > > I looked in my 11/34 CPU box. There's room for a 4-slot backplane. > I currently have two 9-slot backplanes. Can I use an M9202 to > connect the 9-slot backplane to the RK11-D 4-slot backplane? I don;'t see why not. The M9202 has 2' of Unibus cable folded up inside to give a little delay. Otherwise it's the same as the M920. I think you can use either. > > Also, I have not consulted the manuals to see how close I might > get to overloading the CPU box. I have the following modules I don't think that's a problem. There are 2 5V regulators in the CPU box. IIRC, one supplies the CPU backplane, the other the expansion area (9 slot and 4 slot in your case). Your 9 slot backplane is pretty empty, it should easily be able to supply the RK11-D > in my box, starting from the right as you look inside the box > from the front: > > First backplane: > 1) 11/34 CPU M8266 > 2) 11/34 CPU M8265) > 3) M9312 bootstrap > 3) M7859 console > 4) M7856 - DL11-W SLU+clock > 5) G727A > 6) M7891 - 64k memory > 7) M7891 - 64k memory > 8) M7762 - RL01 controller > 9) M9202 > > Second backplane: > 1) M9202 > 2) G727A > 3) G727A - Plan to put M7819 and M7814 in two of these slots Remind me as to what those are, please. > 4) G727A > 5) G727A > 6) G7273 > 7) G727A > 8) G727A > 9) M9302 > > If I add the RK11-D backplane to the left of the other two, > then can I use another M9202 to connect the two backplanes > and move the M9302 to slot 4 of the RK11-D backplane? Yes,that's exactly what you have to do. You also need to connect the power cable from the RK11-D (which may well end in a little single-height PCB that plugs into one of the RK11-D slots) into the 15 pin and 6 pin sockets on the power distribution PCB at the bottom rear of the CPU box. > > RK11-D backplane: > 1) > 2) > 3) > 4) I can't remember the order of the cards here, but I can look it up in the prints if you get one and don't know where the cards go. -tony From jimmydevice at verizon.net Tue Jul 20 03:19:50 2004 From: jimmydevice at verizon.net (JimD) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: Amplifiers? In-Reply-To: <40F76E9B.2050809@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <40F76E9B.2050809@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <40FCD5A6.5040807@verizon.net> ben franchuk wrote: > David V. Corbin wrote: > >> In recent years, a number of audio equipment manufacturers have >> released DSP >> based products that mimic the behaviour of specific tube based >> amplifiers. >> While some purists disagree, the majority of blind sound tests have >> confirmed that these are indistinguasible from the originals to the >> human >> (trained) ear. >> >> So a "perfect" amplifier is not really what is desired in most >> conditions. >> > > Except for me of course. I want a transparent amp but not a colored one. > Amps I am finding out have different factors that you can't find out > in regular sales information. I listen to music 24/7 so a less > distorion is > required. Things like a regulated power supply is something few amps > have. Qaulity components is a second factor. Good music is a third > factor from a good source like new LP's. CD's have too low a sampling > rate for good music. > Ben. > Some intersting thoughts for reading here. > http://www.nutshellhifi.com/index.html > So you listen while hacking old hardware? I haven't seen you in classiccmp recently. Jim Davis. From jimmydevice at verizon.net Tue Jul 20 03:21:11 2004 From: jimmydevice at verizon.net (JimD) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: Amplifiers? In-Reply-To: <40F76E9B.2050809@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <40F76E9B.2050809@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <40FCD5F7.7070405@verizon.net> ben franchuk wrote: > David V. Corbin wrote: > > > > > > Oops, I thought I was in PDX.forsale From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jul 20 04:16:33 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: Fw: [dragonuser] Help with Dragon *Beta* Main Board In-Reply-To: <007a01c46dce$124f6460$0200a8c0@geoff> References: <007a01c46dce$124f6460$0200a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: <43311.80.242.32.51.1090314993.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> This happens to be one of my mates :) I've already told him about Tony's skills so we'll see what he decides to do. Anyone interested will be able to see both Richard's boards (he has a Dragon prototype board too) at the CGE-UK in Croydon on sunday this weekend. cheers w > This appeared on the dragonuser site - looks like a very interesting > machine. He's based in Wiltshire but does travel around a bit if anyones > able to help with basic faultfinding . > By the way Jules - Dragon diagrams are available from the Dragonuser > group. > > Geoff. > > P.S. Had a good dig around in the front part of the loft but no Nascom yet > , > although I did find my two Nascom Imp Printers - chassis only , bought a > long time after Nascom ceased to exist. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard" > To: > Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 1:37 PM > Subject: [dragonuser] Help with Dragon *Beta* Main Board > > > Hi all, > > I have come into possession of a Dragon Data Beta (aka. The ?2500 > business machine) prototype main board. The sad news is that > appears to be dead. Is there anyone out there who could possibly > help in getting this beastie back into life?? (If it ever worked) > Serious reverse engineering and electronic skills required! I've > had a poke about with an oscilloscope and it is clocking OK and > there is life on the data buses. > > I have uploaded a few pics into the photos section. > > For those interested it appears to have the following features: > ? 256 K RAM > ? Twin 6809E's clocked at 1.8Mhz > ? Onboard Floppy controller (3.5" Single sided drives) > ? Onboard RS232 > ? Optical interface > ? External Keyboard (no keyboard L ) > ? Unkown DIN connector - Mouse? Light Pen?? > ? No built in Drag 64 mode! Only an OS-9 boot ROM (ROM dumps > available). > > Simon Hardy is also holding (most of) a Dragon Data Alpha (aka > Professional) prototype for me. More info on this in the coming > months when we can actually get a power supply attached. > > BFN > Richard > www.dragondata.co.uk > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> > Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 > http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/16uqlB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dragonuser/ > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > dragonuser-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > -- adrian/witchy Binary Dinosaurs owner/curator www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UKs biggest home computer collection? From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jul 20 04:46:34 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: Fw: [dragonuser] Help with Dragon *Beta* Main Board In-Reply-To: <007a01c46dce$124f6460$0200a8c0@geoff> References: <007a01c46dce$124f6460$0200a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: <1090316793.28481.10.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-07-19 at 20:21, Geoffrey Thomas wrote: > By the way Jules - Dragon diagrams are available from the Dragonuser group. cheers - I fired off a mail to the list admin to join the list yesterday, but no word back yet. Given the two posts in the last week to the list though, somehow I suspect getting schematics via that route before the weekend won't happen :( Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jul 20 04:56:37 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: Dragon 64 fixing... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1090317397.28481.21.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-07-19 at 22:43, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > Finally found the five minutes to see if my Dragon 64 works. It doesn't. > > > > I get a white screen with a black border (which seems healthy enough), > > Unusual, I would have expected something in green (but see below!) LM1889 chip it was - I now get coloured crap on the screen :) The only spare LM1889 I had was in the Dragon 32, so I desoldered that one... breaking one of the pins off right at the chip package in the process - grrr! Out with the scalpel to cut away enough of the IC plastic to expose metal and I've got it working... but bugger! > It'll give some kind of (Microsoft) BASIC sign-on message. I am not sure > what the exact wording is. It should be black characters on a green > background. Interesting. When the random characters stay together in the middle of the screen I get a couple of A's and a D in the right place that made me wonder if it was trying to say "Dragon Data", and then presumably waiting for a keypress before dropping to BASIC (and giving the same sort of text as the Dragon 32 does). Maybe that's just coincidence, though. > > is screwed - but why the random characters should jump positions > > sometimes I don't know (unless the design of the reset circuitry is not > > very good) > > > > One obvious fault I found was that pin 6 of the 40 pin 6847 IC was > > DD3 -- Data bus bit 3. The machine will behave oddly without that! Absolutely. I'm confident that I've sorted that one though, although I'll double-check (and make sure that the solder attempt by the previous owner hasn't shorted anything it shouldn't) > The only 18 pin chip I cna think of in the Dragon is the colour encoder, > presumably an LM1889 or something. The fact that it's not there could > explain the lack of colour on the screen! Yep :) Now running with a 17.5 pin chip... :-) > > None of the DRAM is getting warm (suggesting failure), and the fact that > > there's something approaching normality on the display suggest that the > > power rails are OK and the CPU's at least operating. > > The design is similar to the CoCo, and is close to the classic Motorola > application circuit for the 6809/6883/6847. I would start with data > sheets on those chips. Check the power lines (I think all you need is +5V > in the 64), check the reset pin (is it stuck active?), check for CPU > clocks (E and Q, sourced from the 6883 SAM), check for memory address > activitiy, and so on. There's a lot you can do without a schematic. ta - will do. I've grabbed the 6847 datasheet, and I should have the 6809 one already. Spare 6809's I have. The 6883 is socketed on both Dragon 32 and 64 so if that's dead I could do a swap. Don't think I have a spare 6847 though, and the one in the D32 is soldered. Of course, it's likely to be something simpler I expect... cheers, Jules From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Jul 20 05:40:35 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: Dragon 64 fixing... In-Reply-To: <1090317397.28481.21.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1090317397.28481.21.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: In message <1090317397.28481.21.camel@weka.localdomain> Jules Richardson wrote: > Of course, it's > likely to be something simpler I expect... Get an oscilloscope and a logic probe out then :) One trick that should work on LS type logic chips is to bend the pins in so you end up with a chip that will sit on top of another one and make reasonable contact with the chip below. Bend the output pins up, then hook up a scope. Use one channel to check the chip that's in circuit, use another to check the known-good chip on top. Solder the chips together if you want (probably a good idea) but DO NOT connect the output pins together. Obviously, if the logic differs, then the chip on the board is suspect. I'd also be tempted to desolder the video RAM, fit some turned-pin sockets to the board (Augat sockets are fairly cheap if you buy them by the tube, they're also pretty good quality - Farnell sell them), then replace the RAM chips one by one (or two by two, whatever it takes to get a full byte). I don't know how the video generation in the Dragon works, but I'd check the video RAM, main RAM and character generator ROM first, then move onto the logic circuitry. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... "Bother", said Pooh, as the read/write heads flew across the room. From wacarder at usit.net Tue Jul 20 06:15:57 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: RK05 interfacing to unibus PDP-11 (was RK05 stuff) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: M7819 and M7814 are multiplexers, for EIA and 20mA devices, respectively. I'm running RSTS/E and plan to connect various terminals and devices to the system. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 12:35 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: RK05 interfacing to unibus PDP-11 (was RK05 stuff) > > I looked in my 11/34 CPU box. There's room for a 4-slot backplane. > I currently have two 9-slot backplanes. Can I use an M9202 to > connect the 9-slot backplane to the RK11-D 4-slot backplane? I don;'t see why not. The M9202 has 2' of Unibus cable folded up inside to give a little delay. Otherwise it's the same as the M920. I think you can use either. > > Also, I have not consulted the manuals to see how close I might > get to overloading the CPU box. I have the following modules I don't think that's a problem. There are 2 5V regulators in the CPU box. IIRC, one supplies the CPU backplane, the other the expansion area (9 slot and 4 slot in your case). Your 9 slot backplane is pretty empty, it should easily be able to supply the RK11-D > in my box, starting from the right as you look inside the box > from the front: > > First backplane: > 1) 11/34 CPU M8266 > 2) 11/34 CPU M8265) > 3) M9312 bootstrap > 3) M7859 console > 4) M7856 - DL11-W SLU+clock > 5) G727A > 6) M7891 - 64k memory > 7) M7891 - 64k memory > 8) M7762 - RL01 controller > 9) M9202 > > Second backplane: > 1) M9202 > 2) G727A > 3) G727A - Plan to put M7819 and M7814 in two of these slots Remind me as to what those are, please. > 4) G727A > 5) G727A > 6) G7273 > 7) G727A > 8) G727A > 9) M9302 > > If I add the RK11-D backplane to the left of the other two, > then can I use another M9202 to connect the two backplanes > and move the M9302 to slot 4 of the RK11-D backplane? Yes,that's exactly what you have to do. You also need to connect the power cable from the RK11-D (which may well end in a little single-height PCB that plugs into one of the RK11-D slots) into the 15 pin and 6 pin sockets on the power distribution PCB at the bottom rear of the CPU box. > > RK11-D backplane: > 1) > 2) > 3) > 4) I can't remember the order of the cards here, but I can look it up in the prints if you get one and don't know where the cards go. -tony From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jul 20 06:15:14 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: Dragon 64 fixing... In-Reply-To: References: <1090317397.28481.21.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1090322113.28481.37.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-07-20 at 10:40, Philip Pemberton wrote: > In message <1090317397.28481.21.camel@weka.localdomain> > Jules Richardson wrote: > > > Of course, it's > > likely to be something simpler I expect... > Get an oscilloscope and a logic probe out then :) :-) It's looking that way... Power's getting where it should be and the reset's ok; I haven't checked clocks for anything yet though. One thing I have found though - a *lot* of chips in this machine are replacements, and the solder quality is total crud. All the RAM chips and both MC6821's are replacements, and the sockets for the LM1889 and MC6847 look to be non-original too, implying that those suffered some form of destruction and were replaced. Given solder quality, I'm going to check continuity on the address / data lines for all the RAM chips and check for shorted tracks too. I've already disturbed something and now the machine powers up and gives a black border / green screen with no garbage - I just don't get any text display either, so it's still not happy. For some reason one of the RAM chips has a 220n decoupling cap, whilst the rest are 100n. Be nice to get it working as this is a grey-cased machine with GEC labelling, plus I have the box and a boxed floppy drive to go with it... cheers Jules From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Jul 20 08:12:22 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: RK05 interfacing to unibus PDP-11 (was RK05 stuff) References: Message-ID: <16637.6710.314000.577602@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell writes: >> I looked in my 11/34 CPU box. There's room for a 4-slot >> backplane. I currently have two 9-slot backplanes. Can I use an >> M9202 to connect the 9-slot backplane to the RK11-D 4-slot >> backplane? Tony> I don;'t see why not. The M9202 has 2' of Unibus cable folded Tony> up inside to give a little delay. Otherwise it's the same as Tony> the M920. I think you can use either. That rings a bell. The M9202 is needed sometimes instead of the M920 to spread out reflections. There's a pile of detail in http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/UnibusSpec1979.pdf paul From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Jul 20 08:15:36 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: Dragon 64 fixing... In-Reply-To: <1090322113.28481.37.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1090317397.28481.21.camel@weka.localdomain> <1090322113.28481.37.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <3cf377d14c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <1090322113.28481.37.camel@weka.localdomain> Jules Richardson wrote: > On Tue, 2004-07-20 at 10:40, Philip Pemberton wrote: > > Get an oscilloscope and a logic probe out then :) > > :-) > It's looking that way... You have got a scope, haven't you? If not, I've got one I could let you borrow (or I could be tempted to part with it in exchange for a small donation to the "Philpem's Wallet" fund :P ) > Power's getting where it should be and the reset's ok; I haven't checked > clocks for anything yet though. Clip the ground clip onto the nearest available ground and take the witch-hat (if your probe has one) off the probe. Make sure the needle tip is nice and sharp. Check the signal as near to the chip as you can. > One thing I have found though - a *lot* of chips in this machine are > replacements, and the solder quality is total crud. Ugh. Add "Solder sucker", "Desolder wick" and "RoadRunner wiring pen" to the "Tools Required" list too. I hope you've got a good soldering iron and a powerful light (60W or so). > All the RAM chips and both MC6821's are replacements, and the sockets > for the LM1889 and MC6847 look to be non-original too, implying that > those suffered some form of destruction and were replaced. Given solder > quality, I'm going to check continuity on the address / data lines for > all the RAM chips and check for shorted tracks too. Watch out - the tracks to the RAM may be mixed up, i.e. A0 going to A8 and so forth. Check the schematics, then buzz out the board with a continuity tester. > For some reason one of the RAM chips has a 220n decoupling cap, whilst > the rest are 100n. Shouldn't make much difference. If it looks like the 220n is a replacement, swap it for a 100n. > Be nice to get it working as this is a grey-cased machine with GEC > labelling, plus I have the box and a boxed floppy drive to go with it... :) Speaking of floppy drives, anyone got a spare CBM 1541 or similar drive? It would save me a few days' work sorting out a disc controller - the uPD765 is a total PITA, especially the external data separator that I need to sort out... Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Divers do it deeper. From wacarder at usit.net Tue Jul 20 08:38:10 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: VT52s and VT61 clearance Message-ID: <003401c46e5e$ccf9f150$99100f14@mcothran1> My new classic computer room is quickly filling up and I need to clear out some space. In my quest to find a working Dec VT52, I have acquired several dead or semi-dead ones that I don't want to spend the time to troubleshoot right now. I also have a VT61 that powers up to a flashing "block style" cursor. I have not attempted to connect it to the PDP-11/34 because I do not have my 11/34 set up for a 20mA connection. If anyone would like a VT52 or the VT61, let me know. I have a minimal amount of money in these ($30 to $50 each) and would be willing to sell them for that price. I've been watching eBay for 6 months and have only seen one of these types of terminals on there. For those of you who aren't familiar with them, they were commonly used on DEC systems (PDP-8 and PDP-11) back in the mid-1970s and later. I have two or three VT52s and the VT61 that I'm wanting to get rid of. The VT61 seems to be quite uncommon. I can't find much about it on Google. It had more features than the VT52 and I think did "full screen" processing, but I'm not sure. Ashley From bob at jfcl.com Tue Jul 20 08:43:51 2004 From: bob at jfcl.com (Robert Armstrong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: IM6100 project plan options (was OSI 560Z: DEC PDP-8 clone using 6100 & 6502) Message-ID: <004b01c46e5f$9a9f0dc0$0801010a@LIFEBOOK> Hi Guys, I built the SBC6120 (a PDP-8/E clone based on the HD6120 chip, http://sbc6120.SpareTimeGizmos.com) but a bunch of the people in the SBC6120 group also have IM6100 chips, sometimes tubes of 'em. We've been having a little discussion about what to do with them on the SBC6120 mailing list, and when I heard about this thread I thought I'd open up the discussion. To start off, I can think of a couple of ways to go with the 6100: * Another machine with a real lights and switches front panel (a simplified SBC6120+FP6120). To save money we'd have to use cheap metal handle (e.g. "Altair style") toggle switches instead of paddle switches. There'd be no fancy silk screened faceplate like the SBC6120 - if we had any faceplate, it'd probably be some laser printed graphics sandwiched between two clear sheets of plastic (again, "Altair style"!). You might even have to drill your own faceplate - STG might not offer a precut one. * An Intercept Jr clone, including the octal keypad and octal display. Maybe even powered by 3 or 4 "D" cells like the original Intercept Jr. * A single board computer with an onboard EPROM to talk to a terminal using something like LSI-11 CODT. No lights, no switches. Basically a simplified (and less capable) SBC6120. All of the options would have 4K of memory and a console terminal interface. They'd run FOCAL-69, DECUS CHESS, or any other 4K paper tape software. No mass storage and no OS/8. Would anybody like to cast a vote? Does anybody have another idea? Thanks, Bob From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Jul 20 08:48:45 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 11, Issue 29 In-Reply-To: <200407161045.i6GAjObY023539@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200407161045.i6GAjObY023539@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: At 5:45 -0500 7/16/04, Ed Sharpe wrote: >What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chip set say?! > >Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Can't resist. This is not really in response to your question, but at least on-topic. In the late '80s, I shared an office with 3 other grad students. One had a Mac SE/30 and was ahead of the rest of us in learning the internet. He got the serial line connection to the building Unix box run into our office, discovered how to ftp files from internet sites, D/L over serial to the macs, decompress, etc. One night around midnight (when the rest of us were asleep), he discovered a site with a bunch of sound clips from movies, and software to substitute the clips for system beep, startup chime, etc. He went to work, and got his box all set up the way he wanted. Next morning, I came in long before he was up, and fired up his machine to do something on it. Instead of it said "My GOD! It's full of *STARS*! ". Oh, verrry nice. I explored the new directory, discovering eventually clips from "Alien" among quite a few others. I *also* discovered the graphical sound-clip editor that came with the package. Hmmm. I set to work. An hour or so later, the owner of the machine walked in, a bit bleary-eyed but looking smugger than anyone I have ever seen before or since. "Hey, guys", he chirped, "I found some new software. Wait'll you see!" Sitting down at his desk, he gave us all another smug look, flipped the switch and leaned back in his chair as the disk spun up. "What?" we said, our best innocent looks plastered across our faces, "a new startup screen or something?" "You'll see..." came the response. The computer finally piped up, "My GOD! It's full of *..SH1T..* ". It turns out Sigourney Weaver's voice (as in Alien), if frequency-shifted down about half an octave, is almost a dead ringer for Keir Dullea's (as in 2001). Mr. Smug's head snapped around in the fastest double-take I've ever seen. "WHAT!" Then realization set in.. "You guys...." He cleaned up the s and kept the startup sound for months, though. -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Jul 20 08:50:19 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: VT52s and VT61 clearance References: <003401c46e5e$ccf9f150$99100f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <16637.8987.573000.553847@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ashley" == Ashley Carder writes: Ashley> I have two or three VT52s and the VT61 that I'm wanting to Ashley> get rid of. The VT61 seems to be quite uncommon. I can't Ashley> find much about it on Google. It had more features than the Ashley> VT52 and I think did "full screen" processing, but I'm not Ashley> sure. Correct. I once worked with the VT61/t. I don't remember if there are other variants. (There is the related VT62, used with the shortest-lived operating system in history, TRAX.) The VT61/t was the entry level editing terminal for Typeset-11. It's a forms processing and text editing terminal. It uses block mode transmission in both directions, one screen at a time. I think the protocol was pretty hairy -- finding any documentation on how it worked is likely to be quite difficult. For text editing it's actually pretty pathetic, but it was cheap by comparison to the serious editing terminal, the VT71. (That one has an LSI-11 inside, and can edit a full document, up to 32kbytes or so long, all in local memory.) On the other hand, for forms entry as you would encounter it in the classified advertising department, it worked very well. Internally those terminals are monsters -- many circuit boards, all single sided etch with thousands of jumper wires on the other side to make up for that. Why they didn't use double sided boards is still a puzzle to me... paul From dvcorbin at optonline.net Tue Jul 20 09:29:35 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: Looking for Teletype for Documentary. In-Reply-To: <16637.6710.314000.577602@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: I was just contacted by a major new organization that is looking for an ASR-33 (or possibly KSR-33) teletype in clean functional condition to use in filming a documentary. The filming is scheduled to take place in New York [just north of NYC] next week. It is possible that the filming could be done at another location [to avoid having to move the teletype!] if there is enough room around it for a camera crew. If anyone is interested, please contact me immediately. David V. Corbin 631-244-8487 From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jul 20 10:41:22 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: VCF Update!! References: Message-ID: <004001c46e70$01fda890$c93310ac@HPLAPTOP> It was written... > There is actually an HP41 calculator here at VCF! > > First day was really good here Great time putting names and faces together. I have a 41C that I use daily. Once you go RPN, you never go back. Someday I'd like to find a card reader and some cards for it... plus I need the quad memory expansion. On occasion I've found these at dealers but they want way too much moolah for them. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jul 20 10:42:17 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: VCF Update!! References: <001001c46b9b$956bf640$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <004801c46e70$22c75da0$c93310ac@HPLAPTOP> It was written... > I hope you guys are going to post some pictures for those who didn't go. I had my digital cam with me, but was running around too much to get any pictures. If someone got some pictures of the show, I'd love a URL to them! Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Jul 20 11:02:52 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: Broken list reenable mechanisms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200407201619.MAA10937@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> I'm sorry to have to bother the whole list with this. I already wrote to cctalk-owner and got no response whatever as far as I can tell; I figured I'd let myself try the list, once, in the hope someone is watching there but not at the -owner address. It seems my subscription has been "disabled due to excessive bounces". The mail saying so includes a token that I can supposedly send back to reenable things, but it doesn't work, probably because the list software (a) waited ten days after disabling before telling me anything and (b) didn't generate a newly-valid token after waiting. The last rejection (not bounce, no matter what the message thinks - I don't accept-and-bounce except under very unusual circumstances) was July 3rd (not the July 6th claimed by the message, unless later attempts came through a different host), and I got no notification until July 13th. I replied immediately and got told the token was invalid (with a note that they're good for only three days). I sent the whole mess off to cctalk-owner. Just now, a week later, I got a second notice of disablement. It included _the very same token_, despite it now being a week older. (It still doesn't work.) Today's notice of disablement and the response to my reenablement attempt are quoted below, after my signature. Does anyone know what's wrong here and whom I need to nudge to get it fixed? As I said, I've already tried cctalk-owner. (Obviously, I won't see on-list replies here; direct, or at least copy to me, would be needed for me to get it.) I can dig up copies of last week's notice and response too, if desired. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ---------------- Notice of disablement > From cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org Tue Jul 20 09:45:01 2004 > Return-Path: > Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) > by Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA10201 > for mouse; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 09:45:01 -0400 (EDT) > Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (huey.classiccmp.org [209.145.140.36]) by Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA via TCP with SMTP id "MVtBZN.GTXL.Mnd"; 20 Jul 2004 09:44:59 -0400 (EDT, 13:44:59 GMT) > Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6KE03bY051097 > for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 09:00:04 -0500 (CDT) > (envelope-from cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org) > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From: cctalk-request@classiccmp.org > To: mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca > Subject: confirm 93199cd740a4a110d65b18d1aea766bc9f292eaa > Message-ID: > Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 09:00:00 -0500 > Precedence: bulk > X-BeenThere: cctalk@classiccmp.org > X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 > List-Id: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > X-List-Administrivia: yes > Sender: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > Errors-To: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > Your membership in the mailing list cctalk has been disabled due to > excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated > 06-Jul-2004. You will not get any more messages from this list until > you re-enable your membership. You will receive 1 more reminders like > this before your membership in the list is deleted. > > To re-enable your membership, you can simply respond to this message > (leaving the Subject: line intact), or visit the confirmation page at > > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/confirm/cctalk/93199cd740a4a110d65b18d1aea766bc9f292eaa > > > You can also visit your membership page at > > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/options/cctalk/mouse%40rodents.montreal.qc.ca > > > On your membership page, you can change various delivery options such > as your email address and whether you get digests or not. As a > reminder, your membership password is > > ibegav > > If you have any questions or problems, you can contact the list owner > at > > cctalk-owner@classiccmp.org > ---------------- Reenablement failure > From cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org Tue Jul 20 12:00:17 2004 > Return-Path: > Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) > by Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA10831 > for mouse; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:00:16 -0400 (EDT) > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (huey.classiccmp.org [209.145.140.36]) by Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA via TCP with SMTP id "MVtHQK.WpFS.NWZ"; 20 Jul 2004 12:00:15 -0400 (EDT, 16:00:15 GMT) > Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6KGFJbY051847 > for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:15:19 -0500 (CDT) > (envelope-from cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org) > Subject: The results of your email commands > To: mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1480259870==" > Message-ID: > Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:15:18 -0500 > Precedence: bulk > X-BeenThere: cctalk@classiccmp.org > X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 > List-Id: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > X-List-Administrivia: yes > Sender: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > Errors-To: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > --===============1480259870== > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your > original message. > > - Results: > Invalid confirmation string. Note that confirmation strings expire > approximately 3 days after the initial subscription request. If your > confirmation has expired, please try to re-submit your original request or > message. > > - Done. > > > --===============1480259870== > Content-Type: message/rfc822 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Received: from Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA > (IDENT:3T62LyXsC2CAW00OL1WHkXx6cGXL9C1WOBnI9DZLNQ5@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA > [216.46.5.7]) > by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6KGFHbY051843 > for ; > Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:15:17 -0500 (CDT) > (envelope-from mouse@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA) > Received: (from mouse@localhost) > by Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA10796; > Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:58:35 -0400 (EDT) > From: der Mouse > Message-Id: <200407201558.LAA10796@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > X-Erik-Conspiracy: There is no Conspiracy - and if there were I wouldn't be > part of it anyway. > Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:58:22 -0400 (EDT) > To: cctalk-request@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: confirm 93199cd740a4a110d65b18d1aea766bc9f292eaa > In-Reply-To: > References: > > > --===============1480259870==-- > From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jul 20 11:23:39 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: Broken list reenable mechanisms References: <200407201619.MAA10937@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <00e601c46e75$ea5fea80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> It was written.... > I'm sorry to have to bother the whole list with this. I already wrote > to cctalk-owner and got no response whatever as far as I can tell; I > figured I'd let myself try the list, once, in the hope someone is > watching there but not at the -owner address. Sorry!! I just got back from VCF east last night. I drove out there wednesday of last week, so I have definitely not been around the list maintenance. You know, you're REALLY asking a lot for me to look into this, instead of playing with all the really NEAT toys I picked up via trades at VCF. I'll be buried for months with that :> Ok, I'm just back to normal life sort of, I promise I will try to dig into this in the next day or two. Catching up on the email I missed during VCF is going to be a pretty huge task! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 20 11:48:17 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: Concrete Computers art exhibit Message-ID: Christine Finn writes: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 15:27:33 +0100 From: C.A.Finn@Bradford.ac.uk Subject: concrete computers etc I am installing an art exhibit in London in early September with the artist who heard me on Start the Week. www.richarducker.com -concrete computers. Idea is that we show the work in a soon-to-be-demolished 1970s office block (his American wife's office actually) to play up the tension of time passing and technological transformation! The place will be felled days after we leave it. Anyway, while Richard is showing his computers as fetish objects, I am doing a couple of displays on subject of computers and their culture as archaeological artifacts. I have already asked Woody Lewis, who used to work at IBM, Apple, Cisco and daytrade, for ephemera to show, and also Mike Cassidy at the SJMN. Just wondered if there is anything you'd like to contribute - or at least some leaflets to display? It's all pretty conceptual...I'll work with material office stuff is left in the venue, but basically display the bits and pieces as proper museum objects, with tags and handlist. I wil undertake to return anything that comes my way. Dr.Christine A.Finn FSA Writer-in-Residence, J.B.Priestley Library & Hon.Research Fellow, Dept. of Archaeological Sciences, University of Bradford, Bradford, W.Yorks BD7 1DP (+44) 01274 233398 (fax) (+44) 07980 913795 (cellphone) --- So if anyone would like to contribute to this off-beat exhibit, or would like more information, please contact Christine directly at . -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jul 20 13:48:50 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: Amplifiers? References: <40F76E9B.2050809@jetnet.ab.ca> <40FCD5A6.5040807@verizon.net> Message-ID: <40FD6912.2090205@jetnet.ab.ca> JimD wrote: > ben franchuk wrote: > So you listen while hacking old hardware? I haven't seen you in > classiccmp recently. Nope, only when reading my email. :) > Jim Davis. Since I don't have access to a real classic computer I plan to build my own. Now is a homebrew computer with the da blinking lights like found here http://timefracture.org/D16.html and http://www.homebrewcpu.com/ on topic or not? Ben. From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Tue Jul 20 14:02:29 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: Concrete Computers art exhibit References: Message-ID: <00b001c46e8c$2eced440$0200a8c0@geoff> I think it's simply wonderful what you " artistic " types think of to while away the hours while the rest of us get on with some work . Computers as fetish objects ? - now you've got me thinking , to think that all this time I've been using them as tools for machine control and other mundane engineering projects. I must say you've really opened my eyes. I'm off down Woolworths tomorrow to buy some silk stockings for my old Dragon 64 ,- do they sell silk stockings in Woolies ? Perhaps you can get Bill Gates to do a talk on what he does with the latest " HOT " pentium in bed at night. This has really gotten me excited now... Hey if you do get Bill , can you lock him inside during the demolition ? Geoff. P.S. Your ticket on the first ark is a cast iron certainty. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 5:48 PM Subject: Concrete Computers art exhibit > > Christine Finn writes: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 15:27:33 +0100 > From: C.A.Finn@Bradford.ac.uk > Subject: concrete computers etc > > I am installing an art exhibit in London in early September with the > artist who heard me on Start the Week. www.richarducker.com -concrete > computers. Idea is that we show the work in a soon-to-be-demolished 1970s > office block (his American wife's office actually) to play up the tension > of time passing and technological transformation! The place will be felled > days after we leave it. > > Anyway, while Richard is showing his computers as fetish objects, I am > doing a couple of displays on subject of computers and their culture as > archaeological artifacts. I have already asked Woody Lewis, who used to > work at IBM, Apple, Cisco and daytrade, for ephemera to show, and also > Mike Cassidy at the SJMN. Just wondered if there is anything you'd like to > contribute - or at least some leaflets to display? > > It's all pretty conceptual...I'll work with material office stuff is left > in the venue, but basically display the bits and pieces as proper museum > objects, with tags and handlist. I wil undertake to return anything that > comes my way. > > Dr.Christine A.Finn FSA > Writer-in-Residence, J.B.Priestley Library & > Hon.Research Fellow, Dept. of Archaeological Sciences, > University of Bradford, > Bradford, W.Yorks BD7 1DP > > > (+44) 01274 233398 (fax) > (+44) 07980 913795 (cellphone) > > --- > > So if anyone would like to contribute to this off-beat exhibit, or would > like more information, please contact Christine directly at > . > > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From marvin at rain.org Tue Jul 20 14:40:06 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: VCM Stuff Message-ID: <40FD7516.511F8FEA@rain.org> Just a quick note to say I am still in the process of getting rid of my excess "treasures" :). They are listed on VCM at http://marketplace.vintage.org/. I'll be putting stuff on for the rest of this week at least, so it might be useful to check the site occassionally ... or frequently :). The stuff I am putting up is mostly for sale, and not for auction. From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jul 20 14:53:07 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: My VCF trip (long) Message-ID: <005901c46e93$2d7385d0$c93310ac@HPLAPTOP> The Burlington VCF trip was my first VCF. I enjoyed myself immensely. Three cheers for Sellam for putting in the work to organize the thing. I did talk to Sellam a bit about possibly having a VCF central in St. Louis - I want to bring my cherished HP2000/Access system. I refuse to cart that system across the country to either coast, or even to KC :) Sellam, I'll be in touch to discuss some stuff about seeing if we can have a VCF in St. Louis sometime. The hotel (mariott) was wonderful, and it was so great to put a face with the email address on so many of the people I've been talking to here over the years. I will definitely make it to a few more VCF's, but hopefully with less travel problems. Ah yes, so many have asked about "The Great Trailer Incident(tm)". Here's a synopsis of my trip to VCF and what all went wrong - presented here entirely for your amusement and as a lesson so that others (including myself) may avoid my screwball missteps. I left St. Louis on Wednesday the 14th, about 8am. Drove non-stop to Washington PA, about 600 miles and spent the night in the Red Roof. My van was loaded with two HP racks, and in tow was a 5x8 flatbed trailer with two more racks and a few 7906 disc drives. The van and trailer were handling wonderfully. I checked the tires on the van before leaving Saint Louis, but neglected to do that on the trailer. The trailer I had just gotten about 6 or 7 months ago for $500 (because it included a PDP-11/45 on it at no cost). It had driven back to St. Louis from TN just fine then. So anyways... I left Washington PA thursday morning to drive the remaining 600 miles to burlington. I was about an hour or so from burlington, headed east on I-84, just 4 miles from the massachusetts border when the tire blew and disintegrated. I got out an looked and there was a few shreds of rubber on the wheel, the majority of my tire being about 30 feet behind the trailer. Pulled off the highway and pondered if a normal car jack would lift a trailer that was pretty heavily loaded, or how I was going to possibly get to the spare van tire with the van fully loaded, and if that tire might fit the trailer, etc. etc. My adventure had begun. I called AAA and said "I'm not a member, but I'd like to be". They laughed and said they wouldn't sign me up for membership AND place a help call at the same time. How helpful. But they at least said they'd get me the phone number for a service station in my area. I had virtually no cellphone battery left. After getting transferred around to quite a few different service stations, one finally had a human voice instead of an "I'm sorry, we're closed" recording. Cool. Told them I needed someone to come out with a certain tire, and where I was located. They said that because of the location/highway I was on, I HAD to have police come out before they could get out there. Huh? I told the guy I had no cellphone left, and would he please call the police for me. He said sure. Almost two hours later, still no police. What fun. It was around 11pm by then and I was getting pretty testy. So I called information, got the police phone number. They said they weren't located in the area I was in, and would transfer my call to another police station. Click... dead line. This happened about 3 or 4 times. Apparently police stations can't transfer calls without hanging up on people. So next call I got the original police station to give me the phone number for the right police station. Wrote it down and asked him to transfer me... click... hung up on again. So I dialed the other police station directly. Fast busy. Waited a while, fast busy again. This cycle repeats a few times. Finally called the original police station, he transferred me and joy of joys this time it went through. The police officer at the new station politely got all my information, location, etc... then told me that I was talking to the Danbury police, which were on the entire opposite side of the state of connecticut from where I was. They offered to transfer me (ARGH!) to Troop A, who were in my area. The kind people at Troop A said they didn't handle the area I was in, and transfered me to some other Troop (F-Troop I suspect). When the transfer went through, I received a recording "I'm sorry, but our offices are closed. Our normal business hours are..." ARGH!!! So I called the original police station, again told the guy where I was, that I had no battery left, and needed him to get someone out there, then hung up. About an hour later, an officer pulled up behind me and asked what the problem was. I suspect it was too DARK for him to see the SHREDDED TIRE at his feet. I told him I wanted someplace to come out with a tire and replace mine, or tow to a 24 hour service station, etc. He then politely asked why I called the police, that I should have called a towing service. ARGH! That IS how I started out, and the towing service told me to call the police first. What fun. The officer informed me I had two choices. Leave the trailer, and come back in the morning and get it with a new tire, or call for towing. I wasn't going to pay towing to burlington, over an hour away. I couldn't get a close hotel, because I had prepayed with late checkin for the mariott at burlington. I didn't want to leave the trailer on the side of the road. But not because of what the officer said... he asked what was on it (no, I didn't jokingly say 'cocaine'). When I told him "antique computer gear" his eyes got wide and he cautioned me about theives going up and down the highway picking stuff off vehicles/trailers left behind. Of course I told him that I wasn't concerned about general theives... I was concerned about my fellow collectors who may also be driving into burlington along I-84 that night, THEY would certainly stop and pick the trailer clean *GRIN* (just kidding). I decided to leave the trailer, chain it with padlock to the guard rail on the side of the highway, and drive the rest of the way into burlington and deal with it tomorrow. I finally got to the mariott at about 1am or so and the bed never felt so good. The next morning I got up, and drove the van to VCF so I could empty it out and not haul that weight back to the trailer. As I was pushing gear in the front door, I met Sellam and asked him if he could make sure the stuff made it in the rest of the way, that I had a flat tire on 84, and had to go retrieve it - so I'd be late to the show but would be there. Then I went to sears just up the street from the service center, bought a tire, and headed out an hour away on 84 in search of my trailer. Found the trailer, jacked it up, grabbed the rim, and spent about 1/2 hour looking for a service station that would put the new tire on the rim for me. Pulled in to something in studbury? and the mechanic said no problem, fired up his tire machine, and... *POOF*. Showers of sparks everywhere. His machine was not going to be putting tires on rims anytime soon. So, he directed me to another garage a few miles away. They got the tire on the rim just fine. As the mechanic put the tire in the van, I asked "how much do I owe ya?" fully expecting the guy would do it as a freebie, or maybe 5 bucks. No... he wanted 20 bucks - cash only. At this point, money was no object, I was 100 miles away, missing a computer show I drove 1200 miles (one way) to go to. GRRR. Drove back to the trailer, put the tire on and thankfully pulled away. Of course, when I put the tire on I got the bright idea that perhaps I should check the other tire on the trailer too. It was in really bad shape, probably would have gone anytime soon. So I limped back to burlington, van in tow, never exceeding 40 mph cause I didn't want the other tire to blow. A few fellow highway drivers weren't particularly happy with me driving at that speed, and made that point quite clear with various hand gestures wild gesticulations. So when I got to VCF I unloaded the trailer, then dropped the trailer off at sears so they could replace the other tire. Went to VCF and had a total blast!! When I got into VCF, apparently the story of "The Trailer Incident(tm)" had spread like wildfire and grown substantially. I think I overheard one incarnation that involved my trailer being on fire and me being put in jail. Hehee... amazing how a story grows through retelling. Then much of the VCF folks went to Victoria's Station for dinner - where the portions were huge and quite good! I had to leave during dinner to pick up the trailer (Sears closed at 8), but then came back for some good conversation and story swapping with my fellow classiccmp'ers. After dinner I met in the lower parking lot of the marriott with Dan Cohoe, William Donzelli, and Evan Koblentz. Was rather funny to see three vans pull up into an empty parking lot, starting moving a bunch of "big boxes" between them, then all go speeding off. Hummm. I got alot of really great DEC and DG stuff. You would THINK this would be the end of the story. NOT! I had taken four empty HP racks to the show... and confirmed with all four collectors before I left st. louis. Of course, at the show, one of the collectors didn't show up at the show at all, and the other one apparently left before I got there late friday (due to the above). So, I was stuck with two large HP racks, sitting in Sun's building. I couldn't load them back to my van, which was already full (and scheduled to get more at bobs and bills). So I was scurrying around asking Sellam for any ideas for disposal, etc. Finally Dan Cohoe stepped forward to help me out and took both racks. One is still destined to go to the person who wanted it as they aren't too far from Dan C. The other... well... haven't heard from that collector yet :) Dan Cohoe - THANK YOU! I had to leave VCF a little early, because I had gear to pick up from Bob Shannon in Leominster, then more gear to pick up from Bill Dawson in Washington PA on the way back. Stopped at Bobs and loaded up, then headed for Washington PA. After about 120 miles, I noticed I itched. I was getting bug bites. I looked across the dash of the van, and there were flying ants (or something like that) crawling over the entire dash, the seats, my legs, etc. Apparently some of the gear I picked up at VCF or later had a low rent housing project for these bugs going on inside of it. Opening all the windows while going down the highway, and then (later) closing the van up tight at night, seemed to get rid of them. It was pouring down BUCKETS of rain, and I had to pull off the highway several times as visibility approached 10 feet. When I got to Washington we loaded the Reality into the trailer, and inbetween breaks in the rain got it all tied down and ready to roll. As I was laying on the ground underneath the trailer hooking bungee cords up, Bill mentioned to me as an aside "Um, you do realize you're laying in a bed of poisin ivy don't you?". I now have the rashes to prove I did NOT have any idea. I got perhaps 2 miles from Bills house before the trailer started fishtailing wildly. Cool! More fun! So I pulled over again but this time couldn't see anything at all amiss. So, I called Bill, and trouper that he was... he drove up to help. After scratching his head a bit, he stood on the tongue of the trailer and found the problem. A seriously negative amount of tongue weight. We were pretty sure we had distributed the weight well (especially with the 11/34 up front), but, apparently not as the power supply for the reality is built into the bottom of the rack, and it is VERY heavy. So, I turned on the emergency flashers and followed Bill to a nearby closed gas station that had a large covered area. We spent the next hour and a half taking everything off the trailer, re-organizing how it would go back on, retarping, tie-down, and re-bungee'ing everything. Finally I was ready to continue home. The thing drove great on the highway now and I settled in for a long, relaxing drive back towards home - st. louis. There was really heavy fog around PA, and just as I was settling down into "watching the miles tick by" mode..... Suddenly I see a large piece of scrap metal on the road in front of me. It came out of the fog, was no way to avoid it. I patiently braced for the dragging of metal, and my patience was rewarded with a wonderful shower of red sparks going up both sides of the van, from the piece of metal being drug under the van. Cool! All this fun, and a fireworks show for free to boot! The metal looked like a piece of aluminum siding all crunched up, or maybe part of a corrugated tin roof... something like that. I continued to drive for about 500 feet, because the metal piece looked pretty small/flexible and I figured it would work it's way out from under the van in just a few feet. It didn't. So I pulled over on the shoulder and sat there for a minute, contemplating what egregious sin I had comitted in a different life that merited this amount of trouble. I was trying to figure out just how (un)safe it was going to be, crawling under a van in the dark, on a fast highway, trying to unwedge a piece of metal debris from under the van. To my suprise, when I got under the van, there was no metal, and no damage, in sight. Apparently the metal HAD come out just when I pulled over to the shoulder of the road. The rest of the trip home to St. Louis was, in fact, totally uneventful :) Again, it was really great to meet the folks there at the show. Everyone was most friendly, helpful, and it was just a plain blast to put a face with the name, and just sit and chat with people about this hobby. Hopefully, people won't hold my grumpy attitude the first day at the show against me, now that they see just what my thursday night/friday morning was like! Well, I'm off to sort through old email, the business cards I collected at the show... and try to somehow get back to restoring some more of the machines in my collection. VCF St. Louis anyone? Oh - by the way - if I had to do it all over again, with the same problems as above, I would. VCF was THAT fun. However, next time I will be taking along a spare tire for the trailer :> Regards, Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From dvcorbin at optonline.net Tue Jul 20 15:17:40 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: My VCF trip (long) In-Reply-To: <005901c46e93$2d7385d0$c93310ac@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: Jay, Now if only you had a video of the adventure! David. From tomj at wps.com Tue Jul 20 16:08:47 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: Early timesharing/BBS systems In-Reply-To: <20040717180922.6F1073C6C@spies.com> References: <20040717180922.6F1073C6C@spies.com> Message-ID: <1090357727.3792.106.camel@dhcp-249243> I'm not sure if more than one terminal at a time was supported, but likely the first long-distance remote terminal on an electrical calculator was the one on a Harvard Mark relay calculator. I think it was dry copper to Aiken's office or something, some miles away, to a teletype terminal. 1930's? 1940's? Certainly the interface model is correct. From lbickley at bickleywest.com Tue Jul 20 16:09:44 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: My VCF trip (long) In-Reply-To: <005901c46e93$2d7385d0$c93310ac@HPLAPTOP> References: <005901c46e93$2d7385d0$c93310ac@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <200407201409.44032.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Jay, Thanks for writing a great VCF "adventure" story!!! I've already forwarded it to several non-classiccmp list computer folks... Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From tomj at wps.com Tue Jul 20 16:12:53 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: Early timesharing/BBS systems In-Reply-To: <20040717182150.3a1b0c03.sastevens@earthlink.net> References: <002601c46c15$d279d7d0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> <20040717182150.3a1b0c03.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1090357973.3792.111.camel@dhcp-249243> The obvious first BBSs were Ward & Randy's CBBS in Chicago. I dialed into that thing many times from my homebuilt CP/M machine with a $100 surplus AJ accoustic coupler modem and a Model 500 dial phone, in Boston MA. Busy-busting with a dial phone == no fun. Very late 1970's. There were a few BBSs in the Boston area, NECS BBS, Andover Cnode (upon which was first discussed a hare-brained idea, author unknown, for linking BBSs that made me work out how to pull off FidoNet a few years later), another club BBS that ran BYE, a fe wmore I cannot recall. All late 1970's. From tomj at wps.com Tue Jul 20 16:21:55 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: Early timesharing/BBS systems In-Reply-To: <20040718104910.GA7911@bos7.spole.gov> References: <002601c46c15$d279d7d0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> <20040718104910.GA7911@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <1090358514.3792.120.camel@dhcp-249243> On Sun, 2004-07-18 at 03:49, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Sat, Jul 17, 2004 at 11:50:44AM -0400, Richard A. Cini wrote: > > Anyway, this demo brings-up an interesting question. What kind of dial-up > > systems existed in the 70's before consumer-oriented services like > > CompuServe? I remember the DowJones and CompuServe sign-up packs at > > RadioShack in maybe 1979 There was the ?telenet? service that linked many commercial computers. I did not have a modem at the time (1975) but a homemade phone patch type coupler, and played with a freq gen and got the remote modem to respond. I was rather excited by that (bor-ing). A few years later (1978?) I did dial into the local telenet modem, and tried a few connect codes, got the login prompts of a bunch of commercial machines, maade about a dozen weak attempts at login, and gave up, never went back. (You'd dial the number, listen for the answer tone, put your telephone handset into the accoustic coupler. Wait a few seconds for the modem to link up, then hit RETURN a few times to determine baud rate (110/300). Then you got a prompt from the telenet system, something simple like a colon or something: : THen you'd enter the connect command and the machine ID: : C123,456 I think it was something like customer 123, machine 456. You often had to hit RETURN again to get the computers attention then it would present with whatever login prompt it used. This is deep, dark, old, little-referenced memory, likely riddled with errors and falsehoods. No warranty implied or expressed. PS: I can't recall what I used for my very first modem program, but I wrote my own simple one very soon, it grew in to one of Phoenix Software's least popular programs, PTEL. I called it Telink until that time, it was OK, did XMODEM, half-decent terminal stuff. No great shakes there. It was written in BSD C, around 1977. From tomj at wps.com Tue Jul 20 16:29:12 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:22 2005 Subject: Document request (helios) In-Reply-To: <200407191714.i6JHEEJX011242@ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> References: <200407191714.i6JHEEJX011242@ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Message-ID: <1090358951.3792.127.camel@dhcp-249243> On Mon, 2004-07-19 at 10:14, Barry Watzman wrote: > I'm trying to find this and get it converted to PDF files. Bob Stek has > loaned me volume 9 to scan (covers the Helios Disk System), which will soon > be on Howard's site (http://www.hartetechnologies.com/manuals/). I met the guy who did the Helios floppy disk file, years ago. His shop built the power supplies for a computer I worked on, sold by CSSN, Inc/Boston Mass around 79/80. (It was presented at the very first Comdex in NV, in classic style -- up all night making it go (konan disk controller DMA timing conflicts with memory and CPU...) big box on a table, behind the skirt on the floor a huge-ass power supply because the real one wasn't ready yet.) I forget his name, but he claimed IBM stole the design from him. I cannot comment on the veracity of his claim of course. The helios drive I did see had a big knob on the front that selected the track to read/write. Wish I had one of those now! The shop was in a declining area of Boston's Back Bay, coincidentally a few years later I moved into a Back Bay apartment that was next door to one of Philbrick Researches' buildings, 285 Columbus Ave. From tomj at wps.com Tue Jul 20 16:34:00 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chip setsay?! In-Reply-To: <006001c46dd0$aaeb77c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <002d01c46ae6$ccb2aaa0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> <006001c46dd0$aaeb77c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <1090359239.3792.133.camel@dhcp-249243> On Mon, 2004-07-19 at 13:40, John Allain wrote: > > What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chip set say?! Not foul at all, but my Story Teller (the talker based upon the Giant SPO256-AL2 chip) reads Ginsberg's HOWL and a paragraph from Burroughs' NAKED LUNCH (the rant about the Meet Cafe). ( yoo kan may'k fow'neem speech werk o k if yoo pree'prow'sess thee input tek'st bee'fore thee tek'st two speech fer'st ) From whdawson at localisps.net Tue Jul 20 16:51:37 2004 From: whdawson at localisps.net (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Concrete Computers art exhibit In-Reply-To: <00b001c46e8c$2eced440$0200a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: > Geoff wrote: > > P.S. Your ticket on the first ark is a cast iron certainty. > Don't you mean the 'B' Ark? Bill From ohh at drizzle.com Tue Jul 20 17:02:37 2004 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chip setsay?! In-Reply-To: <006001c46dd0$aaeb77c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: > What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chip set say?! Well, I taught an early-model Mac to sing Springsteen once. Four songs. Took a lot of in-line alteration of pitch and speed, and the text had to be tweaked pretty heavily to sound like him. But you know, the results actually sounded better than the original. :) (Whether that's difficult or not should, perhaps, be left up to the individual reader. ) -O.- From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Tue Jul 20 17:24:45 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Concrete Computers art exhibit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003501c46ea8$6311f9a0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > > P.S. Your ticket on the first ark is a cast iron certainty. > > > > Don't you mean the 'B' Ark? I was going to comment but then I thought about it and realised that since the 'A' Ark and 'C' Ark existed solely in the minds of the telephone sanitisers and their fellow passengers, the 'B' Ark was indeed the first Ark :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Jul 20 17:55:16 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chip set say?! In-Reply-To: <002d01c46ae6$ccb2aaa0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040720175442.04ee7ea0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that ed sharpe may have mentioned these words: >What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chip set say?! Of course (along with probably a goodly number of folks here) I had programmed a couple of the more "standard" four-letter-words into it... but what I did with it once [when I was a teen] was *evil*... ;^> A couple of weeks earlier, I had convinced my sister that I had an invisible friend named "George." (My sister has always been rather gullible, unknown to me at the time due to the beginnings of schizophrenia. I would, of course, never do this now.) I wrote a basic program with preprogrammed answers to simple questions based on guesstimate timing & single keypresses for the responses, and told my sister that "George" had found his way into my computer and taken over. After telling her to ask him "Anything," knowing that it was doubtful she would get past the basics, for almost 5 minutes she questioned "George" and he dutifully answered her. After that, she was thoroughly convinced that George was indeed real & in my computer, making it alive. Seeing the reaction of other people when my sister tried to convince them that "My brother's invisible friend named George took over his computer and was talking to me!" was priceless. ;^> Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Randomization is better!!! If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Jul 20 05:01:54 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: RK05 interfacing to unibus PDP-11 (was RK05 stuff) In-Reply-To: References: <20040719231329.GB13321@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <20040720100154.GA32272@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Jul 19, 2004 at 11:50:10PM -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > I looked in my 11/34 CPU box. There's room for a 4-slot backplane. > I currently have two 9-slot backplanes. Can I use an M9202 to > connect the 9-slot backplane to the RK11-D 4-slot backplane? Yes. That's what you should use (as opposed to the older M920s - they changed the length of the cable to minimize bus reflection) > Also, I have not consulted the manuals to see how close I might > get to overloading the CPU box. I have the following modules > in my box, starting from the right as you look inside the box > from the front: > > First backplane: > 11/34 CPU M8266 / 11/34 CPU M8265 / M9312 bootstrap / M7859 console > M7856 - DL11-W SLU+clock / G727A / M7891 - 64k memory / M7891 - 64k memory > M7762 - RL01 controller / M9202 > > Second backplane: > M9202 / G727A x 7 / M9302 That's pretty lightly loaded. It's always best to do the math, especially if you want to add a heavy draw like a UDA-50 or a DEUNA, but there should be no problem throwing an RK11-D in there, based on what you already have. > If I add the RK11-D backplane to the left of the other two, > then can I use another M9202 to connect the two backplanes > and move the M9302 to slot 4 of the RK11-D backplane? Yes. I believe you can also put the RK11-D between the DD11-PK and the DD11-DK. Do you have a second M9202, or will you be leaving the DD11-DK out of the loop for now? -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 20-Jul-2004 09:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -100. F (-73.4 C) Windchill -135.7 F (-93.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 6.7 kts Grid 155 Barometer 647.9 mb (11858. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dave04a at dunfield.com Tue Jul 20 19:16:12 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Help with Apple2 clone "Orange Peel" Message-ID: <20040721001611.GDNW7131.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> At 20:42 18/07/2004 +0100, you wrote: >> Btw, do you (or anyone) have the pinout for 4564 DRAM's? I'm wondering >> if they are in backwards (as noted previously, someone "worked" on this >> unit) - 16 pins, showing +5 on pin 8 and Gnd on pin 16 - backward to > >That is the conventioanl pinout for 64K DRAMs (like the 4164). The old >3-rail 16K ones (4116, etc) had -5V on pin 1, +12V on pin 8, +5V on pin >9 and ground on pin 16 (this is burnt into my brain). > >I don't think your RAM is in backwards. Certainly don't turn it round yet! > >-tony Hi Tony, Thanks - I hadn't "turned them around" as I wanted to be sure before doing anything that could cause more damage than may or may-not have already occured. I did recall that some 5v DRAM's had "weird" pinouts. Looks like the machine is zeroing RAM (causes a screenfull of '@' on apple display), and then getting "lost" before it ever makes it to the disk ROM (or at least doesn't turn on the drive motors) - Bad RAM would have explained that nicely (bad stack) - I'll do some more conventional debugging to see what it is accessing and see where that takes me. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From gmanuel at gmconsulting.net Tue Jul 20 19:16:13 2004 From: gmanuel at gmconsulting.net (G Manuel (GMC)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Commodore SX64 probs... In-Reply-To: <1090098934.18834.44.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: Hi Jules, I have an SX-64 myself that I still use to this day. I have seen the fault that you describe in the first system a few times before and have always managed to clear it by reseating the socketed chips and reseating the connections between the boards themselves. Particularly the connection of the board that runs vertical, as you look at the front of the system, at the back to the board perpendicular to it. That one connection tends to work itself loose over time from the bottom of the board up. Greg Manuel -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jules Richardson Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 5:16 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Commodore SX64 probs... I've got a pair of non-working Commodore SX64's here. One machine powers up, but the floppy drive light remains lit and I can hear the drive spinning continuously, and there's a 50% grey pattern filling the screen (i.e. pixels look to be alternating white/black). Actually, there's also short run of pixels middle-bottom of the screen which aren't illuminated at all. Pressing reset has no effect. Pressing caps-lock does result in the caps-lock light illuminating, but I don't know if that's a simple circuit hardwired to the key and doesn't go via the CPU... The second machine is totally dead - no activity whatsoever. There's a *very faint* humming noise from the monitor area, typical of a display that's at least getting power though - but on the CPU side of things no chips seem to be getting remotely warm, suggesting that there's no +5V. Before I start digging deeper, does the fault with the first machine sound familiar, and are there any common PSU faults which affect these systems? Plus, anyone have schematics they could scan? Be nice to get one of them going. One keyboard is damaged (plus I only have the one original keyboard cable), so it's only really viable to have one running, but I'd like to get to the bottom of what's up with both of them... cheers, Jules ==> Most computers are infected with SPYWARE. Check yours for free at http://YourSpySweeper.com/ * FREE spam killer: http://eliminatespam.com * FREE PopUp Buster+: http://popupbuster.net From esharpe at uswest.net Tue Jul 20 19:29:42 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Early timesharing/BBS systems References: <20040717180922.6F1073C6C@spies.com> Message-ID: <002301c46eb9$d0ef3800$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> the hp 2000A system was 1969! Phoenix union High School had one... we have the 2116 on display here for it. It started as the main processor for the early 2000A timeshare system then was used as the I/O processor when the system was upgraded. its final form was A 2000F. This system is signiffant in the history of computing here in Arizona as it was the first timesharing system used at an Arizona highschool... see a short blurb we lifted form the PUHSD booklet on the history... http://www.smecc.org/puhs_-_arizona.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" To: Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 11:09 AM Subject: Re: Early timesharing/BBS systems > > > There were probably a lot, but I remember "Call/370", which I think was > one of the first commercial ones. > > == > > I have an Auerbach report on timesharing services which I'll try to dig > up, which gives short company histories for many of the early commercial > services. Most of the major computer companies were offering some service > by the late 60's. Part of IBM's antitrust settlement with CDC was that > CDC got IBM's service bureau operation. GE timsharing stuck around for > a while. Tymeshare was one of the earliest independents, bootstrapping > themselves and fixing tons of bugs in the GENIE code. > > I also forgot to mention HPs timeshared basic and 3000 systems, also from > the very early 70s ( the 3000 being HP's 'real' timesharing machine, so > they said) > > From wacarder at usit.net Tue Jul 20 19:57:37 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: RK05 interfacing to unibus PDP-11 (was RK05 stuff) In-Reply-To: <20040720100154.GA32272@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: I do have a spare M9202 from a random lot of 11/34 boards I recently acquired, so I think I'm set. Thanks to everyone who has provided their words of experience on this. Once I get my RK11-D stuff (it's on the way), I hope it will work without much trouble. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 6:02 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: RK05 interfacing to unibus PDP-11 (was RK05 stuff) On Mon, Jul 19, 2004 at 11:50:10PM -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > I looked in my 11/34 CPU box. There's room for a 4-slot backplane. > I currently have two 9-slot backplanes. Can I use an M9202 to > connect the 9-slot backplane to the RK11-D 4-slot backplane? Yes. That's what you should use (as opposed to the older M920s - they changed the length of the cable to minimize bus reflection) > Also, I have not consulted the manuals to see how close I might > get to overloading the CPU box. I have the following modules > in my box, starting from the right as you look inside the box > from the front: > > First backplane: > 11/34 CPU M8266 / 11/34 CPU M8265 / M9312 bootstrap / M7859 console > M7856 - DL11-W SLU+clock / G727A / M7891 - 64k memory / M7891 - 64k memory > M7762 - RL01 controller / M9202 > > Second backplane: > M9202 / G727A x 7 / M9302 That's pretty lightly loaded. It's always best to do the math, especially if you want to add a heavy draw like a UDA-50 or a DEUNA, but there should be no problem throwing an RK11-D in there, based on what you already have. > If I add the RK11-D backplane to the left of the other two, > then can I use another M9202 to connect the two backplanes > and move the M9302 to slot 4 of the RK11-D backplane? Yes. I believe you can also put the RK11-D between the DD11-PK and the DD11-DK. Do you have a second M9202, or will you be leaving the DD11-DK out of the loop for now? -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 20-Jul-2004 09:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -100. F (-73.4 C) Windchill -135.7 F (-93.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 6.7 kts Grid 155 Barometer 647.9 mb (11858. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Jul 20 20:31:38 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Early timesharing/BBS systems In-Reply-To: <1090358514.3792.120.camel@dhcp-249243> References: <002601c46c15$d279d7d0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> <20040718104910.GA7911@bos7.spole.gov> <1090358514.3792.120.camel@dhcp-249243> Message-ID: <20040721013138.GA21508@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 02:21:55PM -0700, Tom Jennings wrote: > PS: I can't recall what I used for my very first modem program, but I > wrote my own simple one very soon, it grew in to one of Phoenix > Software's least popular programs, PTEL. Never used that one. My first terminal emulator was the one that came on cassette with the VICmodem. It was so bad, I wrote my own in VIC BASIC. That's what I used for CompuServe at 300 baud c. 1982. Before that, I used real terminals (borrowed, not my own), so there was no need for a terminal emulator. I got my first ASCII terminal in 1984. Still have it. Still use it (mostly as a console for the VAX 8200 and uVAX-II in the basement). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 21-Jul-2004 01:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -105. F (-76.5 C) Windchill -138.9 F (-95 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 5.6 kts Grid 073 Barometer 657.4 mb (11491. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dvcorbin at optonline.net Tue Jul 20 20:44:17 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Early timesharing/BBS systems In-Reply-To: <20040721013138.GA21508@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: >>> Still have it. Still use it (mostly as a console for the >>> VAX 8200 and uVAX-II in the basement). ....... >>> South Pole Station Must be a pretty cold basement...... From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Jul 20 20:40:02 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: RK05 interfacing to unibus PDP-11 (was RK05 stuff) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040721014002.GB21508@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 07:15:57AM -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: > M7819 and M7814 are multiplexers, for EIA and 20mA devices, > respectively. I'm running RSTS/E and plan to connect various > terminals and devices to the system. Flavors of DZ11s? Those won't be too hungry. You'll be able to drop those in your DD11DK and power it from the same regulator as the RK11-D. I would, however, put them there, as opposed to the CPU backplane. Balance is good. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 21-Jul-2004 01:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -107 F (-77.2 C) Windchill -142.6 F (-97 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 6.2 kts Grid 061 Barometer 657.4 mb (11491. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From wacarder at usit.net Tue Jul 20 21:07:09 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: RK05 interfacing to unibus PDP-11 (was RK05 stuff) In-Reply-To: <20040721014002.GB21508@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: >> M7819 and M7814 are multiplexers, for EIA and 20mA devices, >> respectively. I'm running RSTS/E and plan to connect various >> terminals and devices to the system. > Ethan> Flavors of DZ11s? Those won't be too hungry. You'll be able to drop those Ethan> in your DD11DK and power it from the same regulator as the RK11-D. I would, Ethan> however, put them there, as opposed to the CPU backplane. Balance is good. Ethan> I am still looking for the distribution panel for the 20mA DZ11 (M7814). It accomodates 8 devices and has 4 screws per connection. Does anyone out there have one of these? Ashley From wayne.smith at charter.net Tue Jul 20 20:59:31 2004 From: wayne.smith at charter.net (wayne.smith@charter.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: VCF East Pictures Message-ID: <3a5ac4$3va3u4@mxip12a.cluster1.charter.net> I have posted a smattering of pictures from the first day of VCF East here - http://home.comcast.net/~msmith6020/VCF.html. I had to leave mid-afternoon on Friday and wasn't able to get a clear shot of every exhibit due to the crowd. -W From hansp at citem.org Tue Jul 20 21:27:10 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Early timesharing/BBS systems In-Reply-To: <1090357727.3792.106.camel@dhcp-249243> References: <20040717180922.6F1073C6C@spies.com> <1090357727.3792.106.camel@dhcp-249243> Message-ID: <40FDD47E.5020502@citem.org> Tom Jennings wrote: > I'm not sure if more than one terminal at a time was supported, but > likely the first long-distance remote terminal on an electrical > calculator was the one on a Harvard Mark relay calculator. I think it > was dry copper to Aiken's office or something, some miles away, to a > teletype terminal. 1930's? 1940's? From the archives of the IEEE Computer magazine : It was particularly appropriate that time-sharing began at Dartmouth College. Twenty-four years earlier at Dartmouth, on September 11, 1940, George Stibitz had first demonstrated remote computing. Using a Teletype connected via a telephone line to New York City, Stibitz was able to control the operation of his Complex Number Calculator at Bell Telephone Laboratories. Among those who used the system was logician Norbert Wiener. http://www.computer.org/history/looking/r90006.htm -- HansP From sastevens at earthlink.net Tue Jul 20 22:49:04 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chip set say?! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040720175442.04ee7ea0@mail.30below.com> References: <002d01c46ae6$ccb2aaa0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> <5.1.0.14.2.20040720175442.04ee7ea0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <20040720224904.69351262.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:55:16 -0400 Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that ed sharpe may have mentioned these words: > >What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chip set > >say?! > > Of course (along with probably a goodly number of folks here) I had > programmed a couple of the more "standard" four-letter-words into > it... but what I did with it once [when I was a teen] was *evil*... > ;^> > It might or might not be an Urban Legend, but I recall hearing a few years back about a 'tourettes syndrome' phenomenon in an electronic speaking doll. Apparently it was a doll that could be programmed to say words through some sort of digital link. It also had a dictionary of 'bad' words build into ROM and a design to block speaking said terms. Due to some form of firmware bug, the doll instead crashed into a mode that would speak the words on this 'forbidden' list. Maybe somebody else can verify or debunk this story. I remember hearing about it a few years ago. From swtpc6800 at comcast.net Tue Jul 20 23:01:14 2004 From: swtpc6800 at comcast.net (Michael Holley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Smalltalk Software Message-ID: <000d01c46ed7$5e242e70$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> I have a Smalltalk software package that is available for the cost of shipping. This is Digitalk Smalltalk/V Windows 2.0. I purchased it in Aug 1994 (10 year rule) for a course I took. I have the complete package: manuals, disks, and box. Email me Michael Holley swtpc6800 at comcast.net www.swtpc.com/mholley From sastevens at earthlink.net Tue Jul 20 23:06:36 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: IM6100 project plan options (was OSI 560Z: DEC PDP-8 clone using 6100 & 6502) In-Reply-To: <004b01c46e5f$9a9f0dc0$0801010a@LIFEBOOK> References: <004b01c46e5f$9a9f0dc0$0801010a@LIFEBOOK> Message-ID: <20040720230636.4bb79fce.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 06:43:51 -0700 "Robert Armstrong" wrote: > Hi Guys, > > I built the SBC6120 (a PDP-8/E clone based on the HD6120 chip, > http://sbc6120.SpareTimeGizmos.com) but a bunch of the people in the > SBC6120 group also have IM6100 chips, sometimes tubes of 'em. We've > been having a little discussion about what to do with them on the > SBC6120 mailing list, and when I heard about this thread I thought I'd > open up the discussion. > > To start off, I can think of a couple of ways to go with the 6100: > > * Another machine with a real lights and switches front panel (a > simplified SBC6120+FP6120). To save money we'd have to use cheap > metal handle (e.g. "Altair style") toggle switches instead of paddle > switches. There'd be no fancy silk screened faceplate like the SBC6120 > - if we had any faceplate, it'd probably be some laser printed > graphics sandwiched between two clear sheets of plastic (again, > "Altair style"!). You might even have to drill your own faceplate - > STG might not offer a precut one. > I would 'vote' for the above. What I am looking at building is something to toggle in machine code. I haven't bootstrapped a PDP-8 since the early 80's and the level of system I would prefer to make is a row-of LEDs type system to run very simple code on. Maybe I should get a real PDP-8 sometime, but it would take up a lot of space. I have aprox. 100 6100 chips in original tubes, and have had the idea of designing some sort of a partial 'kit' for sale. The SBC6120 is definitely the 'practical' direction for a kit project to go in, a row-of-LED and switch bank project would be more of a novelty flashy-desk-toy kind of thing. > * An Intercept Jr clone, including the octal keypad and octal > display. > Maybe even powered by 3 or 4 "D" cells like the original Intercept Jr. > > > * A single board computer with an onboard EPROM to talk to a > terminal > using something like LSI-11 CODT. No lights, no switches. Basically > a simplified (and less capable) SBC6120. The SBC6120 fills this role admirably. > > All of the options would have 4K of memory and a console terminal > interface. They'd run FOCAL-69, DECUS CHESS, or any other 4K paper > tape software. No mass storage and no OS/8. > The idea of running FOCAL code has some appeal to me. I probably have a homework assignment or two from 1979 filed away somewhere that is FOCAL code (yes, the Intro Computer Programming Course I took in undergraduate college in 1979 used FORTRAN and FOCAL as the target languages). With only a 4K memory map, 'Mass storage' would amount to battery backed up CMOS memory, sort of psuedo-core I suppose. The 6100 processor is one of the simplest chips out there to casually 'breadboard' together into a primative computer. It has probably the most relaxed clocking requirement of any microprocessor ever (certainly the most relaxed of anything realistically available today). The 12 bit data path is the most 'difficult' factor involved, since all the garden-variety micros that common peripheral chips and memory are built around have an 8 bit path. From donm at cts.com Tue Jul 20 23:22:13 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Miscellaneous available Message-ID: Trying to create enough space in my garage to get my car back in. The following items are available for the price of shipping: HP Type Director User's Guide C2501-C90901 HP Professional Printer Deskjet 02276-90004 HP LaserJet Printer Technical Reference Manual 02686-90912 HP LaserJet & LaserJet+ Printers Operator's Reference Manual 02686-90914 HP PCLPak User's Guide 33406-90901 HP 92286A Courier 1 LaserJet Printer Font Cartridge HP 92285 D Paper Cassette (original box) HP 33412AD TmsRmn/Helv Base Set (Roman-8) Soft Font Disks LaserJet PLUS/500 PLUS, LaserJet series II, LaserJet 2000 IQ Engineering Super Cartridge 1 for HP LaserJet/PLUS/500PLUS LaserJet series II/2000 and fully Compatibles There will be more later. - don From bob at jfcl.com Tue Jul 20 23:26:24 2004 From: bob at jfcl.com (Robert Armstrong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: IM6100 project plan options (was OSI 560Z: DEC PDP-8 clone using 6100 & 6502) In-Reply-To: <20040720230636.4bb79fce.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <00b101c46eda$e634ea90$0801010a@LIFEBOOK> >> * Another machine with a real lights and switches front panel (a >> simplified SBC6120+FP6120). To save money we'd have to use cheap >I would 'vote' for the above. In your mind, how would this machine be different from the current SBC6120/FP6120 (other than the CPU, of course)? > What I am looking at building is something to toggle in machine code. I haven't > bootstrapped a PDP-8 since the early 80's and the level of system I would prefer > to make is a row-of LEDs type system to run very simple code on. How do you feel about the Intercept Jr "keypad and octal display" instead? >I have aprox. 100 6100 chips in original tubes Alright! Only 6100s, or do you have any other family chips too (e.g. 6101, 6102, 6103) ? Thanks, Bob From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jul 20 23:25:09 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Early timesharing/BBS systems References: Message-ID: <40FDF025.5060108@jetnet.ab.ca> David V. Corbin wrote: > > >>>>Still have it. Still use it (mostly as a console for the >>>>VAX 8200 and uVAX-II in the basement). >>> > ....... > >>>>South Pole Station >>> > > Must be a pretty cold basement...... Of Course , that is so he can keep his beer cool. :) I think the real reason he has left most of his toys at home is so he can get some work done for his job. Ben. From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 20 23:37:35 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chip setsay?! In-Reply-To: <006001c46dd0$aaeb77c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jul 2004, John Allain wrote: > > What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chip set say?! > > Not foul, but, 20 years ago when I tried, I couldn't get the Votrax > to say "computer" instead it would say "compooter", for that > spelling. So, how do you have a Votrax type-n-talk say computer? "compyuter" -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From wolfgang at eichberger.org Wed Jul 21 00:55:42 2004 From: wolfgang at eichberger.org (wolfgang@eichberger.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Commodore Pet ROM trouble... Message-ID: <200407210555.i6L5tg8T012585@everymail-A16-C01.everymail.net> Hi, a couple of days ago my Pet 2001N (the 2000 Model without the cricklet-keys) gave up :(. See http://www.portcommodore.com/commodore/pet/petfaq/models.html for reference. It's the 2nd machine from top, equipped with 32k RAM. When trying to boot it puts random characters on screen. As far as I found out this _should_ be a ROM-Problem (could be RAM too, but I hope it's ROM as I ran a Ram-Test successfully before the Pet died). I would like to try replacement ROMs before I have to use one of these replacement solutions plugging a little board into the CPU socket and providing it's own ROM and RAM. Could somebode please provide me some Info, what Eproms I could use as replacement for the original Commodore ones (Basic 4)? I'm also a bit confused what image I should use (see http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/firmware/computers/pet/index.html)... As you see, I have a lot of questions. Please excuse my horrible english. I'd be habby about every hint, trick etc... Best regards, Wolfgang Eichberger PS: It'd be great too, if somebody could provide me burnt roms as my only eprom-burner is for C=64. ==================================================== Ing. Wolfgang Eichberger cell.: +43-664-240-65-92 http://www.eichberger.org email: wolfgang@eichberger.org ---------------------------------------------------- Gruentalerstr. 24 - 4020 Linz ? AUSTRIA ==================================================== From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jul 21 02:33:47 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Commodore Pet ROM trouble... In-Reply-To: wolfgang@eichberger.org "Commodore Pet ROM trouble..." (Jul 21, 7:55) References: <200407210555.i6L5tg8T012585@everymail-A16-C01.everymail.net> Message-ID: <10407210833.ZM21405@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 21, 7:55, wolfgang@eichberger.org wrote: > a couple of days ago my Pet 2001N (the 2000 Model without > the cricklet-keys) gave up :(. > Could somebode > please provide me some Info, what Eproms I could use as > replacement for the original Commodore ones (Basic 4)? If it's BASIC 4 and dynamic RAM chips, it should be 4K ROM chips, and the EPROM equivalent is Texas Instruments TMS2532 or equivalent. Note that this is not the same as the more common Intel type 2732. > I'm > also a bit confused what image I should use (see > http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/firmware/computers/pet/index.html)... It depends on exactly what type of PET you have. But I'm not sure there's a whole set there, for the later PETs. I *think* you need: kernal-4.901465-22.bin basic-4-b000.901465-23.bin basic-4-c000.901465-20.bin basic-4-d000.901465-21.bin and possibly one other that I don't see (901465-29 or equivalent). I can't remember what's in the E000-EFFF space. The best thing to do is look at the ROMs you have, see what the numbers are, and try to match them. As far as I know, you can't mix parts of sets. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From swtpc6800 at comcast.net Wed Jul 21 06:17:29 2004 From: swtpc6800 at comcast.net (Michael Holley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Smalltalk Software Message-ID: <000c01c46f14$4f79fc00$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> The Smalltalk software has been taken. Michael Holley swtpc6800 at comcast.net www.swtpc.com/mholley ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Holley To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 9:01 PM Subject: Smalltalk Software I have a Smalltalk software package that is available for the cost of shipping. This is Digitalk Smalltalk/V Windows 2.0. I purchased it in Aug 1994 (10 year rule) for a course I took. I have the complete package: manuals, disks, and box. Email me Michael Holley swtpc6800 at comcast.net www.swtpc.com/mholley From wolfgang at eichberger.org Wed Jul 21 07:56:12 2004 From: wolfgang at eichberger.org (wolfgang@eichberger.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Commodore Pet ROM trouble... Message-ID: <200407211256.i6LCuCN0001153@everymail-A16-C02.everymail.net> Thanks Pete for your fast answer. Yes it is a BASIC 4 Machine with these 4116-4 RAMs. You wrote the correct substitute for the ROM chips are Texas Instruments TMS2532 or equivalent. Is this right for all the chips I will list below? I hope the TMS2532 are easy to purchase here in Austria. Looking through my little library I found the datasheet (at least a good start) but I couldn't find a refence for substitutes - do there exist any? Are the TMS2532 fully Pin-compatible with the MOS ones? And my last question: Do I need anything special to write these chips? I'd put together a little circuit to hook on my Pc's Parallel-Port (this would be the easiest way for me). I'm already googling for information, but would be very glad of some links to schematics and software. Best regards, Wolfgang ==================================================== Ing. Wolfgang Eichberger cell.: +43-664-240-65-92 http://www.eichberger.org email: wolfgang@eichberger.org ---------------------------------------------------- Gruentalerstr. 24 - 4020 Linz ? AUSTRIA ==================================================== From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Jul 21 08:13:42 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chipsetsay?! In-Reply-To: References: <006001c46dd0$aaeb77c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <40220.217.196.231.101.1090415622.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> > >> What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chip set say?! Those of you who're familiar with the ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto will know the Messaging subsystem allows voice responses to phone calls - a basic answering service with no record facility. There's a library of 150 or so words you use to create these messages and the voice isn't that bad. Best sentence I got from it was "I am away on holiday getting head from my secretary" :oD At the CGE-UK this weekend I think I'll do a similar thing...... -- adrian/witchy Binary Dinosaurs owner/curator www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UKs biggest home computer collection? From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Jul 21 08:18:33 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: RK05 interfacing to unibus PDP-11 (was RK05 stuff) References: <20040719231329.GB13321@bos7.spole.gov> <20040720100154.GA32272@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <16638.27945.784000.652497@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ethan" == Ethan Dicks writes: Ethan> On Mon, Jul 19, 2004 at 11:50:10PM -0400, Ashley Carder wrote: >> I looked in my 11/34 CPU box. There's room for a 4-slot >> backplane. I currently have two 9-slot backplanes. Can I use an >> M9202 to connect the 9-slot backplane to the RK11-D 4-slot >> backplane? Ethan> Yes. That's what you should use (as opposed to the older Ethan> M920s - they changed the length of the cable to minimize bus Ethan> reflection) That's probably a good default rule, but it's simplifying things a bit. The full answer is "do what the Unibus config rules say". You can use the M920 so long as the "lumped loads" are not too big. Likewise, you can use the M9202 so long as the total cable length doesn't exceed the limit. paul From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Wed Jul 21 09:42:10 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Concrete Computers art exhibit In-Reply-To: <003501c46ea8$6311f9a0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> References: <003501c46ea8$6311f9a0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <25AFEBF0-DB24-11D8-822A-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> ???? ? ? ? ? ? ? A Ark? B Ark? C Ark? telephone sanitisers? Whatha talkin about? On Jul 20, 2004, at 3:24 PM, Antonio Carlini wrote: >>> P.S. Your ticket on the first ark is a cast iron certainty. >>> >> >> Don't you mean the 'B' Ark? > > I was going to comment but then I thought about > it and realised that since the 'A' Ark and > 'C' Ark existed solely in the minds of the telephone > sanitisers and their fellow passengers, the 'B' Ark > was indeed the first Ark :-) > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed Jul 21 09:58:48 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Concrete Computers art exhibit In-Reply-To: <25AFEBF0-DB24-11D8-822A-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: A pity, there is such a lack of understanding of the great works of literature.... http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Places%20in%20The%20Hitchhiker's%2 0Guide%20to%20the%20Galaxy >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ron Hudson >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:42 AM >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; >>> arcarlini@iee.org >>> Subject: Re: Concrete Computers art exhibit >>> >>> ???? >>> ? ? >>> ? >>> ? >>> ? >>> >>> ? >>> >>> A Ark? >>> B Ark? >>> C Ark? >>> telephone sanitisers? >>> >>> Whatha talkin about? >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jul 20, 2004, at 3:24 PM, Antonio Carlini wrote: >>> >>> >>> P.S. Your ticket on the first ark is a cast iron certainty. >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> Don't you mean the 'B' Ark? >>> > >>> > I was going to comment but then I thought about it and >>> realised that >>> > since the 'A' Ark and 'C' Ark existed solely in the minds of the >>> > telephone sanitisers and their fellow passengers, the 'B' Ark was >>> > indeed the first Ark :-) >>> > >>> > Antonio >>> > >>> > -- >>> > >>> > --------------- >>> > >>> > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org >>> > >>> From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jul 21 12:32:06 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Concrete Computers art exhibit References: <003501c46ea8$6311f9a0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> <25AFEBF0-DB24-11D8-822A-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <40FEA896.8030201@jetnet.ab.ca> Ron Hudson wrote: > ???? > ? ? > ? > ? > ? > > ? > > A Ark? > B Ark? > C Ark? > telephone sanitisers? > > Whatha talkin about? Read the 'Hitchikers guide to the galaxy'. I think it is from the fourth book in the series. This was a plan to settle new planets. A-Ark was the working class C-Ark was the smart people B-ark was every body else like telephone sanitisers that had the misfortune to crash on the Earth. Telephone sanitisers are the people that clean your telephone. You never know what strange sickness you could catch from a dirty telephone. From whdawson at localisps.net Wed Jul 21 13:03:18 2004 From: whdawson at localisps.net (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Concrete Computers art exhibit In-Reply-To: <25AFEBF0-DB24-11D8-822A-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: >From The Hitch Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy series (HHGG), The Restaurant At The End Of The Universe, second book in the five book trilogy, (Chapter 24). Complete chapter 24: http://www.tun.co.uk/strecky/hhgttg/trateotu_chap24.html Bill > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ron Hudson > Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:42 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; arcarlini@iee.org > Subject: Re: Concrete Computers art exhibit > > > ???? > ? ? > ? > ? > ? > > ? > > A Ark? > B Ark? > C Ark? > telephone sanitisers? > > Whatha talkin about? > > > > On Jul 20, 2004, at 3:24 PM, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > >>> P.S. Your ticket on the first ark is a cast iron certainty. > >>> > >> > >> Don't you mean the 'B' Ark? > > > > I was going to comment but then I thought about > > it and realised that since the 'A' Ark and > > 'C' Ark existed solely in the minds of the telephone > > sanitisers and their fellow passengers, the 'B' Ark > > was indeed the first Ark :-) > > > > Antonio > > > > -- > > > > --------------- > > > > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > > > > From sheehan at sheehan.tzo.com Wed Jul 21 13:22:37 2004 From: sheehan at sheehan.tzo.com (Bill Sheehan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Concrete Computers art exhibit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Though several here have demonstrated a mastery of the modern literary canon, no one as yet has corrected the original misunderstanding. Computers *are* fetish objects; classic computers even more so. The primary definition of "fetish" is "an object believed to contain magical or spiritual properties." Frankly, it sounds like an interesting exhibit. (Though Billg in bondage gear might be fun, too...) -- Bill, currently reading a copy of Dr. Finn's book purchased at VCF-East. On Jul 21, 2004, at 10:58 AM, David V. Corbin wrote: > A pity, there is such a lack of understanding of the great works of > literature.... > > http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/ > Places%20in%20The%20Hitchhiker's%2 > 0Guide%20to%20the%20Galaxy > > >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ron Hudson >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:42 AM >>>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; >>>> arcarlini@iee.org >>>> Subject: Re: Concrete Computers art exhibit >>>> >>>> ???? >>>> ? ? >>>> ? >>>> ? >>>> ? >>>> >>>> ? >>>> >>>> A Ark? >>>> B Ark? >>>> C Ark? >>>> telephone sanitisers? >>>> >>>> Whatha talkin about? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jul 20, 2004, at 3:24 PM, Antonio Carlini wrote: >>>> >>>>>>> P.S. Your ticket on the first ark is a cast iron certainty. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Don't you mean the 'B' Ark? >>>>> >>>>> I was going to comment but then I thought about it and >>>> realised that >>>>> since the 'A' Ark and 'C' Ark existed solely in the minds of the >>>>> telephone sanitisers and their fellow passengers, the 'B' Ark was >>>>> indeed the first Ark :-) >>>>> >>>>> Antonio >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> --------------- >>>>> >>>>> Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org >>>>> >>>> > From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed Jul 21 13:36:00 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Concrete Computers art exhibit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>> Though several here have demonstrated a mastery of the >>> modern literary >>> canon, no one as yet has corrected the original misunderstanding. >>> Computers *are* fetish objects; classic computers even more >>> so. The primary definition of "fetish" is "an object >>> believed to contain magical or spiritual properties." And here I thought "fetish" meant having properties similar in nature to a F.E.T.... Oh the shame.... From jbmcb at hotmail.com Wed Jul 21 14:44:01 2004 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Concrete Computers art exhibit References: Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Sheehan" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 2:22 PM Subject: Re: Concrete Computers art exhibit > Though several here have demonstrated a mastery of the modern literary > canon, no one as yet has corrected the original misunderstanding. > Computers *are* fetish objects; classic computers even more so. The > primary definition of "fetish" is "an object believed to contain > magical or spiritual properties. For the some of the general public, computers may seem to posess "Magical" properties. Most of the members of this list, however, probably have a very good understanding of how they work, and knowledge generally dispells the "Magical" attributes of devices. Computers are so commonplace, almost commodity items, that people just take for granted that they work, like a TV or microwave. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 21 14:44:11 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Concrete Computers art exhibit In-Reply-To: <40FEA896.8030201@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <003501c46ea8$6311f9a0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> <25AFEBF0-DB24-11D8-822A-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <40FEA896.8030201@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20040721123848.U59731@newshell.lmi.net> > Ron Hudson wrote: > > ???? > > ? ? > > ? > > ? > > ? > > > > ? > > A Ark? > > B Ark? > > C Ark? > > telephone sanitisers? > > Whatha talkin about? On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, ben franchuk wrote: > Read the 'Hitchikers guide to the galaxy'. > I think it is from the fourth book in the series. > This was a plan to settle new planets. > A-Ark was the working class > C-Ark was the smart people > B-ark was every body else like telephone sanitisers > that had the misfortune to crash on the Earth. > Telephone sanitisers are the people that clean your telephone. > You never know what strange sickness you could catch from a dirty > telephone. The FOURTH book in the trilogy was "So Long, and Thanks For All The Fish" The Golgafrincham B Ark was in the second book, "The Restaurant At The End Of The Universe". (and at the end of the TV series" >From about chapter 26: "Yes," he said, "All those dead telephone sanitizers and account executives, you know, down in the hold." The Captain stared at him. Suddenly he threw back his head and laughed. "Oh they're not dead," he said, "Good Lord no, no they're frozen. They're going to be revived." Ford did something he very rarely did. He blinked. Arthur seemed to come out of a trance. "You mean you've got a hold full of frozen hairdressers?" he said. "Oh yes," said the Captain, "Millions of them. Hairdressers, tired TV producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, public relations executives, management consultants, you name them. We're going to colonize another planet." Ford wobbled very slightly. "Exciting isn't it?" said the Captain. "What, with that lot?" said Arthur. "Ah, now don't misunderstand me," said the Captain, "we're just one of the ships in the Ark Fleet. We're the `B' Ark . . . "Yes, so anyway," he resumed, "the idea was that into the first ship, the `A' ship, would go all the brilliant leaders, the scientists, the great artists, you know, all the achievers; and into the third, or `C' ship, would go all the people who did the actual work, who made things and did things, and then into the `B' ship - that's us - would go everyone else, the middlemen you see." He smiled happily at them. "And we were sent off first," he concluded, and hummed a little bathing tune. >From about Chapter 27: It was, however, a descendant of one of these eccentric poets who invented the spurious tales of impending doom which enabled the people of Golgafrincham to rid themselves of an entire useless third of their population. The other two-thirds stayed firmly at home and lived full, rich and happy lives until they were all suddenly wiped out by a virulent disease contracted from a dirty telephone. BTW, the current inhabitants of Earth are the descendents of the B Ark cargo. From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Wed Jul 21 14:48:14 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Concrete Computers art exhibit References: Message-ID: <00c501c46f5c$9a3a4180$0200a8c0@geoff> I mean the first ( and only ) one to arrive. Can't remember the other details. Oh yes - 42. Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Dawson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 10:51 PM Subject: RE: Concrete Computers art exhibit > > > Geoff wrote: > > > > P.S. Your ticket on the first ark is a cast iron certainty. > > > > Don't you mean the 'B' Ark? > > Bill From jbmcb at hotmail.com Wed Jul 21 15:06:15 2004 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Concrete Computers art exhibit References: <00b001c46e8c$2eced440$0200a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoffrey Thomas" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 3:02 PM Subject: Re: Concrete Computers art exhibit > P.S. Your ticket on the first ark is a cast iron certainty. I'd prefer the pleasure saucers, thank you very much. http://www.subgenius.com/ Praise Bob! From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Wed Jul 21 15:22:28 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Concrete Computers art exhibit References: <003501c46ea8$6311f9a0$5b01a8c0@flexpc><25AFEBF0-DB24-11D8-822A-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <40FEA896.8030201@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <00f701c46f60$7a498a80$0200a8c0@geoff> B-ark was every body else like telephone sanitisers that had the misfortune to crash on the Earth. Telephone sanitisers are the people that clean your telephone. - such as Miss Pretty from Kleenaphone ? From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Wed Jul 21 15:27:28 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: My VCF trip (long) References: <005901c46e93$2d7385d0$c93310ac@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <40FED1B0.F3C31F6E@msm.umr.edu> > > . I got perhaps 2 miles from > Bills house before the trailer started fishtailing wildly. Cool! More fun! > So I pulled over again but this time couldn't see anything at all amiss. So, > I called Bill, and trouper that he was... he drove up to help. After > scratching his head a bit, he stood on the tongue of the trailer and found > the problem. A seriously negative amount of tongue weight. We were pretty > sure we had distributed the weight well (especially with the 11/34 up > front), but, apparently not as the power supply for the reality is built > into the bottom of the rack, and it is VERY heavy. Jay, Shirley and I drove uneventfully from LA to KC and back during this time, and it sounds like any and all mishaps we could have had, were transfered to you. So very sorry to hear of that. The reality probably weighs in at 700# with a Reflex (100), 6000 tape drive (80#) and power supply (150#) and all the rest of the iron. there is no aluminum in the "2000" that you have. Steel at Full Metal Fab in Orange was way cheaper than doing it with aluminum or plastic. Do you or anyone have an original Microdata Prism? It is a terminal that actually weighs more than the above tape drive by 2#. all Steel, and a solid metal machined casting for the base. Same for detached keyboard (included in above weight). Anyway, hope to see more info on what you got with it. It may have 16K core, or 64 or 128K of 'mos" (all the chips are same as apple 2 dram). Jim From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jul 21 15:43:04 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Commodore SX64 probs... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1090442583.29628.83.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 00:16, G Manuel (GMC) wrote: > Hi Jules, > > I have an SX-64 myself that I still use to this day. I have seen the fault > that you describe in the first system a few times before and have always > managed to clear it by reseating the socketed chips and reseating the > connections between the boards themselves. Not so these ones unfortunately. However, I put the word out locally that I was after a C64, and someone came through with the perfect machine - working, but with a scratched case and broken keyboard. Ideal as a source of chips :) I ended up replacing the SID, PLA, and both CIA chips on the I/O board in one machine in the end. It now runs - I'm just matching up the best bits of case to make one presentable system. I haven't tried the floppy drive yet though - fingers crossed that's OK... cheers all, Jules From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 21 15:49:38 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Dragon 64 fixing... In-Reply-To: <1090317397.28481.21.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Jul 20, 4 09:56:37 am Message-ID: > ta - will do. I've grabbed the 6847 datasheet, and I should have the In many ways it's the 6883 SAM chip that's central to the Dragon's hardware (and not the CPU). You _need_ to get the data sheet on that chip. Then you can check that the DRAM is being accessed (it should be, all the time, if only for video/refresh cycles). You can also check the CPU clocks, address decoder outputs (there's a '138 hung off the SAM that provides chip selects for the PIAs, RONs, etc). > 6809 one already. Spare 6809's I have. The 6883 is socketed on both > Dragon 32 and 64 so if that's dead I could do a swap. Don't think I have > a spare 6847 though, and the one in the D32 is soldered. Of course, it's > likely to be something simpler I expect... RAM, ROM, PSU, etc... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 21 15:56:11 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Dragon 64 fixing... In-Reply-To: from "Philip Pemberton" at Jul 20, 4 11:40:35 am Message-ID: > One trick that should work on LS type logic chips is to bend the pins in so > you end up with a chip that will sit on top of another one and make > reasonable contact with the chip below. Bend the output pins up, then hook up > a scope. Use one channel to check the chip that's in circuit, use another to > check the known-good chip on top. Solder the chips together if you want > (probably a good idea) but DO NOT connect the output pins together. HP actually made an instrument that worked like this. It was called a 'Logic Comparator' IiRC. You put a little PCB inside the instrument containing a chip identical to the one under test, said PCB also had links to define pins as inputs or outputs. There was a test clip that you fitted over the chip under test, and the instrument displayed any pins that were difference between that chip and the known-good one inside the instrument. I've never used one, but it seems to br rather lucky-dip servicing rather than actually undertanding the problem. I find it easier to look at signals and work out if they're incorrect and if so, why. > Obviously, if the logic differs, then the chip on the board is suspect. > I'd also be tempted to desolder the video RAM, fit some turned-pin sockets to > the board (Augat sockets are fairly cheap if you buy them by the tube, > they're also pretty good quality - Farnell sell them), then replace the RAM > chips one by one (or two by two, whatever it takes to get a full byte). I Dragons have 8 DRAM chips (either 32K bit or 64K bit) which provide the main memory and video memory. It's one chip per bit, all 8 for the byte. > don't know how the video generation in the Dragon works, but I'd check the > video RAM, main RAM and character generator ROM first, then move onto the > logic circuitry. The Dragon is based round 3 chips. The 6809E processor, the 6883 SAM, which handles address decoding, DRAM control, video address generation, etc, and the 6847 VDG which contains the character generator, video shift registers, etc. Since you're getting stable video, I guess the SAM and VDG are doing something (maybe not the right things, but let's assume they're OK for the moment). It sounds like the SAM and RAM are not being initialised properly, which sounds like a CPU, ROM, or RAM fault. Or PSU, reset circuit, or... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 21 16:01:38 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:23 2005 Subject: Dragon 64 fixing... In-Reply-To: <3cf377d14c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> from "Philip Pemberton" at Jul 20, 4 02:15:36 pm Message-ID: > > One thing I have found though - a *lot* of chips in this machine are > > replacements, and the solder quality is total crud. > Ugh. Add "Solder sucker", "Desolder wick" and "RoadRunner wiring pen" to the > "Tools Required" list too. I hope you've got a good soldering iron and a > powerful light (60W or so). I would actuaslly be tempted to do a complete resoldering job on this board. I don't like shotgun debugging as you know, but bad connections will come back and bite you at the wrong time (i.e. when you're doing a demo and don't have a soldering iron with you). > > > All the RAM chips and both MC6821's are replacements, and the sockets > > for the LM1889 and MC6847 look to be non-original too, implying that > > those suffered some form of destruction and were replaced. Given solder > > quality, I'm going to check continuity on the address / data lines for > > all the RAM chips and check for shorted tracks too. > Watch out - the tracks to the RAM may be mixed up, i.e. A0 going to A8 and so > forth. Check the schematics, then buzz out the board with a continuity > tester. Well, you can at least check that every address output on the SAM goes to _an_ address pin on each of the DRAMs and that there are no shorts between them. > > > For some reason one of the RAM chips has a 220n decoupling cap, whilst > > the rest are 100n. > Shouldn't make much difference. If it looks like the 220n is a replacement, > swap it for a 100n. I wouldn't worry about this. -tony From coredump at gifford.co.uk Wed Jul 21 17:38:31 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Dragon 64 fixing... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40FEF067.5060000@gifford.co.uk> Tony Duell wrote: > HP actually made an instrument that worked like this. It was called a > 'Logic Comparator' IiRC. I have one: http://www.gifford.co.uk/~coredump/inst.htm Scroll down to the section about the "HP 5011T Logic Troubleshooting Kit", and the Logic Comparator is part of that. Mine also came with a universal plug-in card with a ZIF socket for the "good" chip and DIP-switches for setup. Oh, and there's a self-test card. > I've never used one, but it seems to br rather lucky-dip servicing rather > than actually undertanding the problem. I havn't used mine (yet), but I think you're right! -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jul 21 17:31:45 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Concrete Computers art exhibit References: <003501c46ea8$6311f9a0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> <25AFEBF0-DB24-11D8-822A-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <40FEA896.8030201@jetnet.ab.ca> <20040721123848.U59731@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <40FEEED1.5040500@jetnet.ab.ca> Fred Cisin wrote: >>Read the 'Hitchikers guide to the galaxy'. >>I think it is from the fourth book in the series. >>This was a plan to settle new planets. >>A-Ark was the working class >>C-Ark was the smart people >>B-ark was every body else like telephone sanitisers >>that had the misfortune to crash on the Earth. >>Telephone sanitisers are the people that clean your telephone. >>You never know what strange sickness you could catch from a dirty >>telephone. > > > The FOURTH book in the trilogy was "So Long, and Thanks For All The Fish" ... True, but then I did not want to spoil the plot and get him to read the series. I kind of got lost after the blinking black light on the black console just before all that. :) From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Jul 21 06:14:07 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Commodore Pet ROM trouble... In-Reply-To: <200407210555.i6L5tg8T012585@everymail-A16-C01.everymail.net> References: <200407210555.i6L5tg8T012585@everymail-A16-C01.everymail.net> Message-ID: <20040721111407.GA29247@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Jul 21, 2004 at 07:55:42AM +0200, wolfgang@eichberger.org wrote: > Hi, > > a couple of days ago my Pet 2001N (the 2000 Model without > the cricklet-keys) gave up :( That's the model I got new back in 1979... > ... When trying to boot it puts random characters on > screen. As far as I found out this _should_ be a ROM-Problem > (could be RAM too, but I hope it's ROM as I ran a Ram-Test > successfully before the Pet died). Could be ROM, could be dirty sockets. > Could somebode please provide me some Info, what Eproms I > could use as replacement for the original Commodore ones (Basic 4)? 2532s are drop-in replacements. Note: *not* 2732s. > I'm > also a bit confused what image I should use (see > http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/firmware/computers/pet/index.html)... The 2001-N (dynamic RAM, graphic keyboard) is also known as a 3032 in Europe. Look for images related to that model. It is _not_ a 4032 or 8032 (those have a 6545 CTRC for video, not discrete TTL components like the 3032). > PS: It'd be great too, if somebody could provide me burnt > roms as my only eprom-burner is for C=64. I can't help you from here, but the C-64 burner _might_ be able to burn 2532s. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 21-Jul-2004 11:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -102 F (-74.5 C) Windchill -129 F (-89.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 4 kts Grid 017 Barometer 660.1 mb (11384. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Jul 21 06:20:50 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Commodore Pet ROM trouble... In-Reply-To: <10407210833.ZM21405@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <200407210555.i6L5tg8T012585@everymail-A16-C01.everymail.net> <10407210833.ZM21405@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20040721112050.GB29247@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Jul 21, 2004 at 08:33:47AM +0100, Pete Turnbull wrote: > If it's BASIC 4 and dynamic RAM chips, it should be 4K ROM chips, and > the EPROM equivalent is Texas Instruments TMS2532 or equivalent. Note > that this is not the same as the more common Intel type 2732. All true, but I just remembered that even Commodore used pin-swabbers late in the game (C-64/C-128 era). If you can build a device out of several stacked sockets or a small circuit board, you can rewire the pinout between the top and bottom sockets to allow a common 2732 in the top with a 2532 pinout on the bottom. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 21-Jul-2004 11:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -102 F (-74.5 C) Windchill -129 F (-89.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 4 kts Grid 017 Barometer 660.1 mb (11384. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From evan947 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 21 19:07:32 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: VCF Update!! In-Reply-To: <200407210521.BAA1335794@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <20040722000732.25795.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> Megan, Could you send me the photos of my exhibit (vintage handhelds)? I would really appreciate having it. Thanks, Evan --- Megan wrote: > > >I had my digital cam with me, but was running around too much to get any > >pictures. If someone got some pictures of the show, I'd love a URL to > >them! > > I got pictures of all the exhibits which were still there on day-2 > (saturday). I also got video of two exhibits with the owners explaining > them. The next time, I'd like to do that with every exhibit. > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL,ST| email: mbg at world.std.com | > | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | > | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | > | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | > | Chelmsford, MA 01824 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | > | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > > From esharpe at uswest.net Wed Jul 21 20:55:14 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Miscellaneous available References: Message-ID: <00af01c46f91$0193c8e0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> happy to pay parcel post freight on this though usps shall add to the HP display for the museum Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 9:22 PM Subject: Miscellaneous available > > Trying to create enough space in my garage to get my car back in. > > The following items are available for the price of shipping: > > HP Type Director User's Guide C2501-C90901 > > HP Professional Printer Deskjet 02276-90004 > > HP LaserJet Printer Technical Reference Manual 02686-90912 > > HP LaserJet & LaserJet+ Printers Operator's Reference Manual > 02686-90914 > > HP PCLPak User's Guide 33406-90901 > > HP 92286A Courier 1 LaserJet Printer Font Cartridge > > HP 92285 D Paper Cassette (original box) > > HP 33412AD TmsRmn/Helv Base Set (Roman-8) Soft Font Disks > LaserJet PLUS/500 PLUS, LaserJet series II, LaserJet 2000 > > IQ Engineering Super Cartridge 1 for HP LaserJet/PLUS/500PLUS > LaserJet series II/2000 and fully Compatibles > > > There will be more later. > > - don > > > > > > From esharpe at uswest.net Wed Jul 21 21:30:18 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Miscellaneous available References: <00af01c46f91$0193c8e0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: <00b801c46f93$d429a070$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> happy to get all of it to display in the hp printer section! Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "ed sharpe" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 6:55 PM Subject: Re: Miscellaneous available > happy to pay parcel post freight on this though usps > shall add to the HP display for the museum > > Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC > > Please check our web site at > http://www.smecc.org > to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we > buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. > > address: > > coury house / smecc > 5802 w palmaire ave > glendale az 85301 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Maslin" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 9:22 PM > Subject: Miscellaneous available > > > > > > Trying to create enough space in my garage to get my car back in. > > > > The following items are available for the price of shipping: > > > > HP Type Director User's Guide C2501-C90901 > > > > HP Professional Printer Deskjet 02276-90004 > > > > HP LaserJet Printer Technical Reference Manual 02686-90912 > > > > HP LaserJet & LaserJet+ Printers Operator's Reference Manual > > 02686-90914 > > > > HP PCLPak User's Guide 33406-90901 > > > > HP 92286A Courier 1 LaserJet Printer Font Cartridge > > > > HP 92285 D Paper Cassette (original box) > > > > HP 33412AD TmsRmn/Helv Base Set (Roman-8) Soft Font Disks > > LaserJet PLUS/500 PLUS, LaserJet series II, LaserJet 2000 > > > > IQ Engineering Super Cartridge 1 for HP LaserJet/PLUS/500PLUS > > LaserJet series II/2000 and fully Compatibles > > > > > > There will be more later. > > > > - don > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From gsutton9503 at wavecable.com Wed Jul 21 22:45:12 2004 From: gsutton9503 at wavecable.com (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: AD - FS: VAX-11 Assembly Language Programming Book Message-ID: <40FF3848.50003@wavecable.com> Since I don't yet have my Geekworks page set up yet, I'm going ahead and posting this here to the list. If there's any VAX enthusiasts here, I have a book for sale that may be of interest: Programming In Assembly Language - VAX-11. I'm not sure what would be a reasonable price to ask for this book, so I'll entertain the cop-out of a reasonable offer plus shipping. For postage calculations, the total package weight will be 3 pounds / 2 ounces, and will be shipped from ZIP code 98383 Using this info, postage can be calculated here: USPS Domestic Postage Calculator http://postcalc.usps.gov/ USPS International Postage Calculator http://ircalc.usps.gov/weight.asp?Contents=1 Pictures of the book are here: http://webpages.charter.net/scarletdown/Geekworks/GW-VAX-ASM-0.JPG http://webpages.charter.net/scarletdown/Geekworks/GW-VAX-ASM-1.JPG http://webpages.charter.net/scarletdown/Geekworks/GW-VAX-ASM-2.JPG http://webpages.charter.net/scarletdown/Geekworks/GW-VAX-ASM-3.JPG http://webpages.charter.net/scarletdown/Geekworks/GW-VAX-ASM-4.JPG http://webpages.charter.net/scarletdown/Geekworks/GW-VAX-ASM-5.JPG From donm at cts.com Thu Jul 22 00:08:58 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Miscellaneous available In-Reply-To: <00af01c46f91$0193c8e0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, ed sharpe wrote: > happy to pay parcel post freight on this though usps > shall add to the HP display for the museum As the first to respond, it is all yours. Will bundle up and mail to you before the weekend. - don From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Jul 22 00:31:50 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Miscellaneous available References: Message-ID: <00f701c46fad$30483380$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Thank you very much Don! We are delighted to display it next to the HP printers we have! Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: "ed sharpe" Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:08 PM Subject: Re: Miscellaneous available > > > On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, ed sharpe wrote: > > > happy to pay parcel post freight on this though usps > > shall add to the HP display for the museum > > As the first to respond, it is all yours. Will bundle up and mail > to you before the weekend. > > - don > > > > > From jimmydevice at verizon.net Thu Jul 22 01:24:17 2004 From: jimmydevice at verizon.net (JimD) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chipsetsay?! In-Reply-To: <40220.217.196.231.101.1090415622.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> References: <006001c46dd0$aaeb77c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <40220.217.196.231.101.1090415622.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <40FF5D91.30303@verizon.net> Witchy wrote: >>>What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chip set say?! >>> >>> > >Those of you who're familiar with the ICL OPD/Merlin Tonto will know the >Messaging subsystem allows voice responses to phone calls - a basic >answering service with no record facility. There's a library of 150 or so >words you use to create these messages and the voice isn't that bad. > >Best sentence I got from it was "I am away on holiday getting head from my >secretary" :oD > >At the CGE-UK this weekend I think I'll do a similar thing...... > > > Digitalker??? mention no more these high tech silicon voicesters, I speak of none other than the MIGHTY VOTRAX. The first and only overpriced analog phonum synth, RUSTY WHITNEY WANTS A CHEEZE BURGER, Enought said? Jim Davis. From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Thu Jul 22 04:53:25 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: spring clearout. (ok, so I'm late..) Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.0.20040722100042.05d975f0@albert> Hi all, In an effort to make some room, I have the following items available to good homes. All are located in Salford, UK. Collection is preferred, although I can arrange carriage if necessary (but most are of little value, heavy, or both!!) All the following are FREE to good home (although a contribution would be appreciated) Impact printers: Epson RX-100+ printer - powers up, printed two lines of self test before beeping. probably just needs a good clean and some grease. Epson LX-1050 printer. - powers up and prints self test. Inkjet printers: (assume all these need new ink carts!) Epson stylus color 460 printer - untested Epson stylus color 800 printer - untested but believed OK Epson C20UX printer - believed faulty Olivetti JP192 printer - untested but believed OK - complete with cartridge holder and driver diskettes! Monitors: About 4-5 Various 14" monitors. - may have some slight faults. Panasonic TR120TIL monochrome composite video monitor. - OK. Eizo Flexoscan 9070S - untested - 16" ??? - multiple inputs (CGA/EGA, dip switch no.colours, ttl/analogue switch, BNC separate inputs) Terminals: Wyse WY-30+ green screen terminal. - complete with keyboard. Works fine. Computers: Several PC clone AT, Pentium 1 class base units - various states of completeness. Amstrad PCW8256 word processor / CPM computer - complete, with keyboard, printer and diskette! - believed working prior to spending overnight outside. not tested since. Mitac 3030D laptop computer - no power supply, untested. Compaq SLT/286 laptop - no power supply, keyboard is missing, untested. IBM XT model 8160. - untested. Base unit only. These I would definitely like a contribution for: Motorola MVME187 based computer. powerstack? This machine has been unused since ~1994 or so. It was only ever powered up for a few MONTHS, then sat unused under a desk ever since. I have never powered it up, as I can't find a console cable. Torch Hard Disc 68000 computer. BBC micro + 68000 co-processor + hard disc + monitor in a massive steel case. This WAS working a couple of years ago, but ceased to do so after being moved about. It may be something simple, I don't know .. pics at http://www.irrelevant.com/pics/Torch004.jpg to 009 from when it did work! More items to come in due course ... [I also have some other old 486 machines, HP deskjet printers and Wyse Terminals (at least one is a WY-120) hidden at the back of the outhouse, which I could liberate if anybody was really really REALLY desperate for one :-) They will appear here eventually, but for the moment they are not in the way!] Please reply off-list by placing 'robert' before the @ in the email address I wrote to this list from. Cheers! Rob From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jul 22 05:04:06 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: spring clearout. (ok, so I'm late..) In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.0.20040722100042.05d975f0@albert> References: <6.1.1.1.0.20040722100042.05d975f0@albert> Message-ID: <1090490645.30726.36.camel@weka.localdomain> > Torch Hard Disc 68000 computer. > BBC micro + 68000 co-processor + hard disc + monitor in a massive steel case. > This WAS working a couple of years ago, but ceased to do so after being > moved about. It may be something simple, I don't know .. I've yet to find anyone who has a running one :-) The ones I've seen typically had BASF hard drives, which don't seem to have stood the test of time like other ST506 units. Yours is a little unusual in having the 68k board rather than the Z80 though. (I've got schematics for the 68k boards by the way, as well as the SASI controller fitted in these machines) Do you have a copy of the utils/hard disk formatter? I've searched high and low for someone who has a copy! It'd run on the BBC side of things rather than the 68k, so should be the same for all the Torch C-series systems. I've got a spare PSU for one of these machines. Also was told of a C500 available the other day, but I'm yet to hear if that has a hard drive, which copro it has, or whether it's got any software. Watch this space (it's probably too far away for me to pick it up) cheers, Jules From e.huininga at sozawe.groningen.nl Thu Jul 22 05:20:50 2004 From: e.huininga at sozawe.groningen.nl (Eelco Huininga) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: spring clearout. (ok, so I'm late..) Message-ID: >>> Jules Richardson 07/22 12:04 >>> > Torch Hard Disc 68000 computer. > BBC micro + 68000 co-processor + hard disc + monitor in a massive steel case. > This WAS working a couple of years ago, but ceased to do so after being > moved about. It may be something simple, I don't know .. I've yet to find anyone who has a running one :-) The ones I've seen typically had BASF hard drives, which don't seem to have stood the test of time like other ST506 units. Yours is a little unusual in having the 68k board rather than the Z80 though. (I've got schematics for the 68k boards by the way, as well as the SASI controller fitted in these machines) I'm very interested in a copy of the 68000 and SASI boards. Any chance you can mail me a copy? Cheers, Eelco From wolfgang at eichberger.org Thu Jul 22 06:09:46 2004 From: wolfgang at eichberger.org (wolfgang@eichberger.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Commodore Pet ROM trouble... EPROM Substitutes... Message-ID: <200407221109.i6MB9kpH020285@everymail-A16-C02.everymail.net> Sorry, me again. Mentioned TMS2532 Eproms are one of these Unobtainiums here. Looking at the Pinouts I have in my databooks there are little (minor?) Differences to the standard 2732's (besides the different Program Supply Voltage). I couldn't find much ressources online, but would it work if I made a small adapter like "illustrated" below... 2732 2532 EPROM -> SOCKET Pin(s) Pin(s) 1-17 -> 1-17 18 (E) -> 20 (PD/PGM) 19(A10)-> 19 (A10) 20(GVpp)> 21 (Vpp) 21(A11)-> 18 (A11) 22-24 -> 22-24 Please correct me, if I'm completely wrong and trying to do something impossible. 2732's would be easy to obtain, and I have some prommer-schematics and software handy. So it would be cool if I could use them. Regards, Wolfgang ==================================================== Ing. Wolfgang Eichberger cell.: +43-664-240-65-92 http://www.eichberger.org email: wolfgang@eichberger.org ---------------------------------------------------- Gruentalerstr. 24 - 4020 Linz ? AUSTRIA ==================================================== From ikvsabre at comcast.net Thu Jul 22 07:06:23 2004 From: ikvsabre at comcast.net (Joe Stevenson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Commodore 1541 disk drives for sale In-Reply-To: <40FE7A13.5010505@hp.com> References: <004b01c46e5f$9a9f0dc0$0801010a@LIFEBOOK> <40FE7A13.5010505@hp.com> Message-ID: <200407220806230546.5768ED1A@smtp.comcast.net> Hi guys, I bought a lot with a bunch of Commodore stuff, and it included a bunch of 1541 drives. I only need 1 or 2, so I looking to sell off the rest. I sold one on eBay for $20, so I figure that is a decent asking price. $20 each + shipping. I've got several of them. Drop me a note if you are interested Joe ikvsabre@comcast.net PS - I hope this is the right list. I apologize if I've sent this message to the wrong list. If so, let me know and I will post where it belongs. From f.heite at hccnet.nl Thu Jul 22 07:43:23 2004 From: f.heite at hccnet.nl (Freek Heite) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Apple IIe ROM Message-ID: <200407221243.i6MChNXU005832@smtp30.hccnet.nl> >From: Mike Kenzie >Subject: Re: Apple IIe ROM >Does anyone know of a reference that might list ALL the ROMs produced for the IIe? No list - but if you happen to find an Apple IIe with the text " Apple //f " on the startup screen, you might have found my old Apple - for which my dealer made me a personalized ROM. Besides that small gadget, the code that overwrites some memory locations when the reset key is hit, was nopped in the new ROM. Regards, Freek Heite. From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Thu Jul 22 09:10:03 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: spring clearout. (ok, so I'm late..) In-Reply-To: <1090490645.30726.36.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <6.1.1.1.0.20040722100042.05d975f0@albert> <1090490645.30726.36.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.0.20040722150432.0671d3d0@pop.freeserve.net> At 11:04 22/07/2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > >I wrote > > Torch Hard Disc 68000 computer. > > BBC micro + 68000 co-processor + hard disc + monitor in a massive steel > case. > > This WAS working a couple of years ago, but ceased to do so after being > > moved about. It may be something simple, I don't know .. > >I've yet to find anyone who has a running one :-) The ones I've seen >typically had BASF hard drives, which don't seem to have stood the test >of time like other ST506 units. Yours is a little unusual in having the >68k board rather than the Z80 though. (I've got schematics for the 68k >boards by the way, as well as the SASI controller fitted in these >machines) > >Do you have a copy of the utils/hard disk formatter? I've searched high >and low for someone who has a copy! It'd run on the BBC side of things >rather than the 68k, so should be the same for all the Torch C-series >systems. I'm afraid the only software I have for it is that which is stored on the hard disc... as to what is there, I can't quite remember! Standard "welcome pack" type programs were definitely on there, so there is a possibility it's on there, if you want it and if you can get it working :-) It's not been treated unkindly - mostly spent it's time sat on the floor in the corner of the spare bedroom.. >I've got a spare PSU for one of these machines. Also was told of a C500 >available the other day, but I'm yet to hear if that has a hard drive, >which copro it has, or whether it's got any software. Watch this space >(it's probably too far away for me to pick it up) > >cheers, > >Jules From cannings at earthlink.net Mon Jul 12 11:21:22 2004 From: cannings at earthlink.net (Steven Canning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: laptop batteries (Thinkpad 500) ??? References: <16620.29223.889133.32043@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <6.1.2.0.2.20040711063810.021b9ec0@pop-server> Message-ID: <000501c4682c$457cc0f0$6401a8c0@hal9000> Gene, We don't know where you reside, but below Joe has you covered on the East coast, and here on the "left" coast in California we have a place called "House of Batteries" sales@houseofbatteries.com in Huntington Beach that can get or make any combination of sizes and chemical makeup. They're 100% so far in my book. Good luck. Best regards, Steven ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Ehrich" To: Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 3:40 AM Subject: laptop batteries (Thinkpad 500) ??? > Hope this is not off topic. The computer is over ten years old. > > I have been searching for a place to buy a battery for my Thinkpad 500 and > came a cross a web site called laptopadapter.com > > 1. Has anybody dealt with this company and/or have a comment on buying from > them? > > 2. Any other suggestion where to get a battery for T500? > > > Do you have the original battery pack? If so, I'd send it to one of the places that will take it apart and replace the individual cells and reassemble the pack. Just be sure they use GOOD cells and not the cheap Chinese or Mexican made ones. A GOOD set of NiCads will last at least 7 or 8 years instead of one year like the junk ones. I've been using the Japanese made Sanyos and they've worked great for me. I've been dealing with TNR in Sanford, Fla right off of I-4 for years and they've always done a good job for me. They also have a website. You can also buy the individual cells with tabs attached and assemble them yourself but soldering the adjacent tabs together is bulkier than just having a strap between them. And you'll have to figure out a way to attach the battery pack connectors. If you take it to a rebuilder they'll remove the connectors and spot weld them to the new batteries. Don't even think about trying to solder wires or straps directly to the battery cells! I've posted the reasons why here before so I'll skip repeating them but go read the previous posts if in doubt. Joe From jdbryan at acm.org Mon Jul 12 13:33:35 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: HP 6101x and PCIB In-Reply-To: <20040709220248.9FFAC3D3D@spies.com> Message-ID: <200407121833.i6CIXafg026991@mail.bcpl.net> On 9 Jul 2004 at 15:02, Al Kossow wrote: > I just picked up several dozen 6101x series PCIB instrument boxes and > was wondering if anyone knows anything about them? Late 80s HP T&M catalogs have product descriptions and specifications for these items. 10 pages in the 1988 catalog in front of me, for instance. > As usual, no interface card, software... Looks like you would need the HP 61061C "PC Instruments Interface and System Software for the HP Vectra PC, IBM PC/XT/AT, and AT&T PC 6300" to make the system work. Or the HP 98647A "PC Instruments Interface and System Software for the HP 9000 Series 200/300 computers." > ...or power supplies. The catalog describes the power supplies this way: "PC Instruments consist of ten advanced instrumentation modules, each with its own isolated power pack." "Specifications: L = 4.33 in., W = 3.54 in., H = 2.54 in., weight = 1.91 lbs. Input voltage = 120 VAC, 25 VA max." No output voltages listed, but they sound like wall warts from the specs. -- Dave From Watzman at neo.rr.com Mon Jul 12 13:36:33 2004 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Anyone have/know of Persci drives, parts In-Reply-To: <200407121700.i6CH0Whg040838@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <200407121836.i6CIaWlp008007@ms-smtp-02-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> I need some Persci 8" drives (model 270 or 277) and/or parts to repair them for some systems. The part that I need most is the very large circuit board on the right side of the drive. Anyone know of a source? [I'm sure that there are thousands of them in various landfills, but that won't help me ......] Thanks, Barry Watzman Watzman@neo.rr.com From waisun.chia at hp.com Tue Jul 13 04:32:21 2004 From: waisun.chia at hp.com (Wai-Sun Chia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: CDC 9762 vs. RM02/03? In-Reply-To: <000101c467ae$6a4650a0$707ba8c0@xpdesk> References: <000101c467ae$6a4650a0$707ba8c0@xpdesk> Message-ID: <40F3AC25.7080303@hp.com> I have some conflicting info here. On one hand the literature says that DEC rebadged the CDC9762 as RM02 and RM03s... OTOH, the CDC has a SMD interface yet the RM02/03 has a MASSBUS interface. Furthermore, the CDC is listed to be at 80MB, yet the RM02/03 apparently has 67MB only. So, which is true? I'm confused. Thanks. /wai-sun From Watzman at neo.rr.com Tue Jul 13 08:28:46 2004 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Documentation available and wanted Message-ID: <200407131328.i6DDSiIa006523@ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> There is an excellent and growing "library" of old computer documentation available at: http://www.hartetechnologies.com/manuals/ The following additional specific manuals are being actively sought: * AB Digital Design Labs B810 RAM * CCS 2820 CPU Board Manual * CCS 2-Serial/2-Parallel Card Manual * Cromemco [2716] 32K Bytesaver * Cromemco 64KZ and 64KZ-II Manuals * DIGITEX Systems Manuals. * DUAL Systems Manuals not listed. * Ithaca Audio 1010 CPU Board * Konan SMC200 SMD Disk Controller * NNC ("No-Name Computers") Manuals * OSM Computer Corp Z80 CPU "CPU/64K" Board * S. D. Sales Expando-Ram I, II, III Manuals (any/all versions) * SSM (Solid State Music) MB64 64K static RAM manual * SSM VB3 Video board * Zeus System Manuals However, contributions of any manuals not currently in the archive are appreciated (or "better" copies of documents that are already available). If you have any of these in electronic format (PDF, JPEG, etc.), you may contribute them by uploading them to: ftp://ftp.hartetec.com/pub/incoming Alternatively, if you have hard copy of any of these manuals, I hereby offer to scan them to Adobe Acrobat PDF files and submit them, and, if requested, return original manuals. There are additional archives of old computer manuals at: http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ and, for Processor technology products, at: http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/sol.html Barry Watzman Watzman@neo.rr.com From david at dynamicconcepts.us Tue Jul 13 18:40:45 2004 From: david at dynamicconcepts.us (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Disk Capacity.... In-Reply-To: <1089757606.6044.7.camel@dhcp-251012> Message-ID: Tom, I am well aware that there are significant reasons why this is a "non-real-world" comparision [I worked at Veeco Instruments for a numver of years developing IBE/IBD tools for the manufacturer of disk drive heads]. It is just an "interesting" comparision. A wall of RP06's is less than 0.5% the capacity of a single IDE/ATA hard drive. You can now create tera-byre arrays in a single 4u rack slot. The ironic part is that I keep filling up the darn things faster and faster. I remember when all of my work fit on a few DECTapes! David. From dj.taylor at starpower.net Tue Jul 13 18:50:55 2004 From: dj.taylor at starpower.net (Douglas Taylor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: DEC AXV11 A/D Board Connector Pinout Wanted Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.0.20040713194627.01af5408@pop.starpower.net> As you can tell from the heading I have one of these boards. In the DEC Micronotes there are some simple programs that show you how to acquire data with it, however I don't know how you connect the board to outside sources for sampling,etc. Anyone have info? I think I saw something in the Vax 4000/200 manuals that talked about a cabinet kit for this board - a UDIP - does this ring any bells? Doug From root at parse.com Tue Jul 13 21:53:57 2004 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: DEC/Compaq Enterprise Storage Arrays and TL882 Tape Jukebox Message-ID: <200407140253.WAA23322@parse.com> Hi folks, we came across a whack of Enterprise Server Arrays, and a TL882 tape jukebox. Here's a list of the stuff: power supply units 30-48191-4 180w 70-33252-01 NIC-SCSI 70-32866-01 terminal HSZ70 70-32832-01 w. flash card HSZ cache w/ 4 x 32MB 72pin SIMM cache battery pack 70-32188-04 fans (400293-001 McLean Eng. PR770C +12v) DS-BA35X-FA 70-33067-02 (BA356) DS-SWXRA-HA This probably *just* qualifies within the 10-year-old rule for cctech :-) though I couldn't find a date anywhere; I'm betting on mid 1990's. We're looking to get rid of this stuff in order to recoup costs on the purchase (it was a lot bid, and this was the "extra" equipment). Is anyone interested? Can anyone suggest places that might be interested in this (other than, obviously, eBay, which is where it will end up)? I'm hoping people who have these arrays are interested in spare parts like power supplies, fans, HSZ cache upgrades, etc. The arrays are missing the drives because those "had to be scrapped" for security reasons; unfortunately, they also scrapped the plastic cases that the drives resided in. Thanks in advance! Cheers, -RK -- Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting, Books and Training at www.parse.com Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! From jamesthomson at mac.com Wed Jul 14 04:00:41 2004 From: jamesthomson at mac.com (James Thomson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: WD 1002-05 controller Message-ID: Hi Tony, I am after a Western Digital WD1002-05 controller card which I need, to get a hard drive working with an old system which I have. Do you still have this card? Would you like to sell it to me? Many thanks. Regards, James Thomson From adamg at pobox.com Wed Jul 14 04:51:02 2004 From: adamg at pobox.com (Adam Goldman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: PET RAM retrofit (was Anybody going to VCF-East have cheap working Oscilloscope/Logic...) Message-ID: <20040714095102.GA27809@silme.pair.com> Someone has already done some work on retrofitting PETs to use modern RAM chips: http://people.freenet.de/x1541/hardware/adaptors.html http://people.freenet.de/x1541/hardware/petram.html -- Adam From asholz at topinform.de Wed Jul 14 09:39:48 2004 From: asholz at topinform.de (Andreas Holz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Varian 620? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040709231001.008ab410@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040709231001.008ab410@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <40F545B4.5070900@topinform.de> Joe R. wrote: > Does anybody around still have one of these that works? > > Joe > > > > I've a Varian 620/L100 including an expansion rack, a Varian fixed head disk (Serial 003), a Tektronix Storage tube display including the interface to the Varian, a Teletype and a full set of documentation - but no software, neither on disk or papertape. As Al I'm looking for any kind of software, esp. Vortex and Fortran. Andreas From alistair at slitesys.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 14 18:19:37 2004 From: alistair at slitesys.demon.co.uk (Alistair MacDonald) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor In-Reply-To: References: <000001c46977$a4d90fd0$0402a8c0@D1> Message-ID: <20040714231936.GB21715@slitesys.demon.co.uk> On Wed, Jul 14, 2004 at 11:38:45PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Hello: > > I need some advise, if someone can please help me out regarding > > identifying what this monitor is for. I have been given an older 20' > > Mitsubishi monitor with two 15 pin connectors on the back (signal A, Signal > > B) along with 5 of the round connectors with the two pins on each. Each > > Are you sure it's 2 pins? These sound like BNC [1] connectors which have > one central pin and the shield. Some sockets have a forked contact for > the centre connection which may look like 2 pins, though. Something wrong with the quoting there Tony ... Anyway, There are the two locking "pins" on the sides of BNC connectors. Perhaps these are what are being mentioned. Alistair From waisun.chia at hp.com Thu Jul 15 04:46:26 2004 From: waisun.chia at hp.com (Wai-Sun Chia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: RZ25-E in a VAXstation 4000 vlc? In-Reply-To: <97F809DE-D5B8-11D8-BEA5-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> References: <97F809DE-D5B8-11D8-BEA5-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> Message-ID: <40F65272.4000402@hp.com> David Betz wrote: > I have a VAXstation 4000 vlc without an internal hard disk and a spare > RZ25-E drive. I had thought I could install the drive in the vlc but it > seems from inspection that the vlc needs a lower profile drive. What > drives are compatible with the vlc? If it won't work as an internal A RZ28 2GB should work fine. /wai-sun From waisun.chia at hp.com Thu Jul 15 04:51:31 2004 From: waisun.chia at hp.com (Wai-Sun Chia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Booting a VAXstation 4000 VLC off the hobbyist boot CD-ROM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40F653A3.60300@hp.com> Is that a CDRW model? If so, try to use a more down-to-earth CDROM and not too fast.. any 2X/4X would work. Make sure it supports 512 byte sectors too. /wai-sun From BUFFYBRON at aol.com Thu Jul 15 08:36:37 2004 From: BUFFYBRON at aol.com (BUFFYBRON@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: motherboards Message-ID: <149.2e066db0.2e27e265@aol.com> Hi Chris I am after 386 and 486 motherboards, please advise if you will ship to the UK if I pay the costs etc. Brgds Steve. From waisun.chia at hp.com Thu Jul 15 12:28:04 2004 From: waisun.chia at hp.com (Wai-Sun Chia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Ferro-resonant xformer conversion? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40F6BEA4.4050601@hp.com> Assuming you have a ferro-resonant transformer targetted for 60Hz operation and you want to convert it into 50Hz (assuming current load is the same).. Question: - if one just maintains the RC value, the tank would still resonate and perform its function of maintaining load and line regulation? e.g. originally R1C1 = 60, now we want R2C2 = 50, if we retain the original external caps, we have: R1C = 60 and R2C = 50, therefore: R2 = (5/6)R1 which means that R2 is just about 17% smaller than R1. Bottom line is: Does simply measuring the primary winding's resistance and adding a series resistor network which decreases the total resistance to 5/6th of the original, work? Sorry if all this is really crap.. My magnetics/electronics is pretty rusted, unfortunately. p.s. samples of a 5/6th resistor network would be welcome :-) Thanks. /wai-sun From Watzman at neo.rr.com Fri Jul 16 08:27:49 2004 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Sol-20 & Helios on E-Bay Message-ID: <200407161327.i6GDRglp019054@ms-smtp-02-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Processor Technology 1978 stuff on E-Bay, SOL-20 and two Helios II's: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5109086247 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5109095872 [disclaimer, I am the seller, so this falls into the "shameless plug" category] From geoff at pkworks.com Fri Jul 16 17:41:09 2004 From: geoff at pkworks.com (Geoffrey G. Rochat) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: [PDP8-Lovers] Free shipping on SBC6120/PDP-8 Kits for VCF weekend! References: <001001c46b4e$241dcb50$d802010a@LIFEBOOK> Message-ID: <000501c46b85$fe626460$8c6ff4d0@Administrator> > Guys, > > In case you haven't heard, this weekend VCF/East will be held in > Boston for the 2nd year. If you live in the area and have the chance to > go, I recommend it! > > http://vintage.org/2004/east/ > > Spare Time Gizmos will be there with our "Build your own PDP-8 from a > kit!" kit, the SBC6120 > > http://sbc6120.SpareTimeGizmos.com I just got home from today's show. That's a pretty little beast you've got there, fella! From gmanbc2000 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 16 18:31:48 2004 From: gmanbc2000 at yahoo.com (Lee Gallagher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Intel Data Catalog Message-ID: <001401c46b8d$14229cf0$5ada623d@14ghzcpu> Hey I seen your exchange of emails with GM Phillips on these catalogs. Do you have any of them for sell? I too am looking for them but I don't have near the collection of George Phillips. Lee From ernestls at comcast.net Sat Jul 17 23:17:50 2004 From: ernestls at comcast.net (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Apple IIe ROM -Orange Peel clone? In-Reply-To: <200407151929.45809.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <000001c46c7e$3400c000$6501a8c0@ernest> > Mike Kenzie wrote: > > Tested a bunch of Apple II machines (and clones ) today and found 2 with a > funny ROM > > 8409 G > C19746 > 341-0168-A > Apple 83 > > the start screen is APPLE with two linked S's and a degree symbol > > Also a Orange peel but it all it produced was a screen of @ Hi, Mike Which clones did you test? I collect them, so I always perk up whenever I hear them mentioned around here. I am particularly interested in your Orange Peel. Well, really I'm interested in any that I haven't heard of, like that one. Is there any chance that you might email me a few pictures of your clones? I would like to add them to the reference area of my website at: http://www.apple2clones.com You can also upload them directly onto the site if you would prefer. I've gathered photos of 139 different Apple II clones so far, and there are many more that I would like to add to the site. Also, would you be interested in make a trade (or two) for your clones? I don't care if they are broken or not, since I can usually fix them without too much hassle. Thanks. Ernest From ernestls at comcast.net Sat Jul 17 23:29:32 2004 From: ernestls at comcast.net (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Help with Apple2 clone "Orange Peel" In-Reply-To: <20040717105500.FCWL2991.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: <000101c46c7f$d2c48f40$6501a8c0@ernest> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Dave Dunfield > Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 3:55 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Help with Apple2 clone "Orange Peel" > > Hi, > > I am trying to resurrect a dead Apple2 clone for a friend. > > This machine is called "Orange Peel", and is packaged as a > small rectangular box with three slots accessable on one > end by sliding back the top, and a separate keyboard. > I believe the machine is running, at least it clears video > memory to zero (familier '@' pattern) on powerup, but goes > no further - the ROM/RAM configuration seems odd: > > The main board contains 8 4564 DRAM's along with video > and I/O circuitry etc. > > The CPU lives on a separate board which is suspended above > the mainboard on long, hard-to-insert pins. > > The CPU board has 7 sockets. At one end is a single 2716 > EPROM chip labled "New boot", near the other end of the > line is a label on the board which reads "2kb/2716" - this > suggests that the whole line should be ROM's (which would > be consistant with other apples), however the remaining > sockets contain 5517 CMOS RAM's !!! - clearly there is no > other code on this board. > > Inside the "New Boot" ROM, the only strings I can see are: > > FBPASIC OR INTBASIC FILE REQUIRED > INSERT APPLICATION DISC AND PRESS ESC > > This suggests that it loads basic from disk and would not > have it in ROM. > > So - I have a bit of a paradox : the "2kb/2716" label suggests > ROM's, and the 64k of RAM on the mainboard also indicates that > all the RAM is on the lower board, however the ROM strings > suggest that this may be the only ROM. > > Perhaps it loads code from the disk into "Pseudo-ROM" 5517 bank? > (If so, anyone got the disk code)? > > The fact that several of the riser pins were not inserted and > bent under the CPU board indicates that someone with low skills > "worked" on this system at one point. The fact that the attached > power cord was cut off indicates that it was given up on ... so > I cannot assume that it is configured correctly. > > Is anyone familier with this system? Can anyone tell me if the > CPU board accepts RAM or if it should be ROM? If so, does anyone > have the proper code? If it loads the RAM's from disk, does anyone > have the disk? > > Regards, > Dave Hey, Dave That sounds like a very interesting clone, and like you said, I suspect that someone hacked the thing up badly. But... it can probably be repaired. Does the "New ROM" card have any wires going from it to other chips on the mainboard, or does it simply plug into an empty ROM socket on the mainboard? I would love to see some photos of that system, especially some pics of the mainboard. Ernest http://www.apple2clones.com From ernestls at comcast.net Sat Jul 17 23:38:43 2004 From: ernestls at comcast.net (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Help with Apple2 clone "Orange Peel" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c46c81$24577970$6501a8c0@ernest> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 2:55 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Help with Apple2 clone "Orange Peel" > > > Inside the "New Boot" ROM, the only strings I can see are: > > > > FBPASIC OR INTBASIC FILE REQUIRED > > INSERT APPLICATION DISC AND PRESS ESC > > > > This suggests that it loads basic from disk and would not > > have it in ROM. > > > > So - I have a bit of a paradox : the "2kb/2716" label suggests > > ROM's, and the 64k of RAM on the mainboard also indicates that > > all the RAM is on the lower board, however the ROM strings > > suggest that this may be the only ROM. > > IIRC, a real Apple ][ has up to 64K RAM (48K on the mainboard, 16K on a > language card) and some ROMs. The ROMs are bank-switched with the top 16K > (Language card) RAM. > > It sounds like you effectively have a built-in language card (that would > be quite sensible), and you have RAM in place of the ROM (possibly to get > round Apple copyrights). The 5517 RAMs take the place of ROMs -- they're > loaded once on boot-up, and then contain the resident BASIC, etc. The > EPROM you have sounds like a bootloader for these RAMs. > > -tony I wonder if the "booter" disk on for my Basis 108 might have some useful code for Dave to custom build a Basic boot disk for his clone. The Basis 108 originally had to load Basic from disk, but the owner could (as usual) replace the original single ROM with six EPROMS that matched the Apple II D,E,F ROMs. The Basis that I have used six 2732 EPROMS that had both FPbasic and Applesoft Basic on them, and the system could be booted into either by simply flipping a switch. Very slick, I thought. Dave, I have .DSK images of two different Basis "booter" disks on my website that you can download if you want to take a look at them. Ernest http://www.apple2clones.com From news at computercollector.com Sun Jul 18 23:53:07 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: CORRECTION: re: VCF East 2.0 / Computer Collector E-mail Newsletter Message-ID: <20040719045307.41760.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> A correction: Sellam's replica for the Tokyo museum is of a PDP-1, not a PDP-8. - Evan K. From waisun.chia at hp.com Mon Jul 19 09:21:48 2004 From: waisun.chia at hp.com (Wai-Sun Chia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Very important: Restoration of an Onyx Systems C8002 In-Reply-To: <426650836@web.de> References: <426650836@web.de> Message-ID: <40FBD8FC.4070607@hp.com> Pierre Gebhardt wrote: > > I can take pictures next week and put them online. > But why should I dump the programmable parts ? For protection against bit-rot. ROMs, PROMs, GALs, do fail, when they do, you can simply burn your dumped contents into a new device. -- /wai-sun From Watzman at neo.rr.com Mon Jul 19 12:14:15 2004 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Document request In-Reply-To: <200407191700.i6JH0Abc044917@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <200407191714.i6JHEEJX011242@ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> It turns out that about 3 years after they went out of business, a 12-volume "Encyclopedia" of Processor Technology data was published by Stan Sokolow called the "Encyclopedia Processor Technica", aka "EPT". [There is some question as to whether volume 12 was ever actually published.] I'm trying to find this and get it converted to PDF files. Bob Stek has loaned me volume 9 to scan (covers the Helios Disk System), which will soon be on Howard's site (http://www.hartetechnologies.com/manuals/). Does anyone have any of the other volumes? This is a rare document, there were probably no more than a couple of hundred printed, if even that many, and that was over 20 years ago. If you have this and are willing to loan it out for scanning, or scan it yourself (each volume is about 300+ pages), please contact me (Watzman@neo.rr.com). Still looking for a number of other manuals also, plus anything that isn't in the library (these below have specific requests): * AB Digital Design Labs B810 RAM * CCS 2820 CPU Board Manual * CCS 2-Serial/2-Parallel Card Manual * Cromemco [2716] 32K Bytesaver * Cromemco 64KZ Manual * DIGITEX Systems Manuals. * DUAL Systems Manuals not listed. * Ithaca Audio 1010 CPU Board * NNC ("No-Name Computers") Manuals * OSM Computer Corp Z80 CPU "CPU/64K" Board * S. D. Sales Expando-Ram I, III Manuals (any/all versions) * Zeus System Manuals Thanks, Barry Watzman From Watzman at neo.rr.com Mon Jul 19 13:29:54 2004 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Processor Technology Software Wanted Message-ID: <200407191829.i6JITrIa014297@ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Does anybody, by any chance, have a copy of the processor technology "Simu-cisor" program? It is a program for testing a Persci drive that exactly simulated the Persci factory drive exerciser hardware using a PT Helios disk controller. It was distributed on audio cassette tape, not disk, and it's tape name was "SIMU". It was only a dealer/service center item, it was not normally distributed to end-users. If you have this, please contact me (Watzman@neo.rr.com). Thanks, Barry Watzman From davi at comcast.net Mon Jul 19 13:41:18 2004 From: davi at comcast.net (Davi Napoleon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: are you still interested in buying an osborne 1 computer? Message-ID: <200407191859.i6JIxlbY045462@huey.classiccmp.org> And how much are you offering to pay? From drb at msu.edu Mon Jul 19 17:06:31 2004 From: drb at msu.edu (Dennis Boone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:24 2005 Subject: Early timesharing/BBS systems In-Reply-To: (Your message of Sat, 17 Jul 2004 11:50:44 EDT.) <002601c46c15$d279d7d0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> References: <002601c46c15$d279d7d0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Message-ID: <200407192206.i6JM6VT8009778@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> > Anyway, this demo brings-up an interesting question. What kind of > dial-up systems existed in the 70's before consumer-oriented services > like CompuServe? I remember the DowJones and CompuServe sign-up packs > at RadioShack in maybe 1979 (I joined CIS in 1988. I even remember > my ID: 70153,3367). I also remember in high school (around 1983) > using a DECwriter to dial into the timesharing computer (at 300 baud; > I don't know the host system) at one of the local universities. A few thoughts for early 80s: "The Source" as a consumer service was running Rev 18 PRIMOS in '81 or so, and upgraded to 19 not too much later. They'd been around for at least a few years by that point. Access was via Telenet or Tymnet. You'd dial your local number, connect, smack enter, answer the terminal type prompt, get presented with an "@" prompt. You could log in, if you needed to connect somewhere that didn't accept collect connections, or simply start connecting: "c 30147" for The Source. There was some relationship between area code of the host and the address it was assigned. As The Source was headquartered in Maclean, VA, I've been prone to wonder how they were related to the current AOL. A number of X.25-based networks were fairly mature by '82 or so, and in many cases were interconnected, even internationally. Lots of what we'd probably call B2B today used them. A number of research services, e.g. Dialog, BRS, etc. are good examples. The MERIT network in Michigan existed since the late '60s, providing dialin access to its three founding partners' mainframes, and later to other members' systems. MERIT's network was run on homegrown communications processors based on PDP hardware. MERIT later became the contractor who managed NSFnet, so they started calling the state network MichNet, and converted to Livingston Portmaster hardware and TCP/IP. The scary part is I recall too many of the details for some of this stuff. Washington DC telenet was 202-429-7896, Lansing MI was 517-372-5400. The Source support userid was TCA088. I could go on, but I think I've proven to be a sick puppy already. This leads me to ask the group if anyone can tell me about a piece of hardware I once used. Part of the time when I was accessing telenet, it was through a satellite data comm system operated by the US Treasury, linking where I was in the Middle East with Washington. To make a call in Washington, you'd dial the local access number. When connected, you'd send a ctrl-A, the system would eventually answer with a "B". You'd send a ctrl-B, the phone number (with a leading 9, so it was behind someone's PBX), and end with a ctrl-O and a ctrl-C. I never got to see what hardware did this work, but am curious as to what it was. Anybody see anything familiar? De From mbg at TheWorld.com Mon Jul 19 23:00:20 2004 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0, Day one. References: Message-ID: <200407200400.AAA1237290@shell.TheWorld.com> >There is a version of Spacewar for PDP-11, though, with a GT40. I >think Megan has a copy, and I think it runs under RT-11. I must fix my >GT40 and do something about that... Oh sure... go ahead and drag me into this... Yes, I have a copy of a spacewar game for the GT40... it was written by a friend of mine from college, circa 1978... It does run on the GT40. In addition, I found the sources for the roses program as well as the lunar lander. I can put them up somewhere if there is interest (and once I check for copyrights...) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL,ST| email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01824 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From gtulloch at shaw.ca Mon Jul 19 23:15:05 2004 From: gtulloch at shaw.ca (Gordon Tulloch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Early timesharing/BBS systems In-Reply-To: <002601c46c15$d279d7d0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> References: <002601c46c15$d279d7d0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Message-ID: <40FC9C49.6040503@shaw.ca> Ward Christianson and Randy Suess rolled out CBBS (Chicago BBS) in 1978 on CP/M boxes - details at http://www.portcommodore.com/commodore/bbs/cbbs.html. Not long after that a number of RCP/M systems arose... I started my first BBS on Apple ][ in 1984 on a 300 bps Hayes Micromodem :) "Hey, who needs more than 300 baud, it's not like you can read any faster!" Regards, Gord Richard A. Cini wrote: > Anyway, this demo brings-up an interesting question. What kind of dial-up > systems existed in the 70's before consumer-oriented services like > CompuServe? I remember the DowJones and CompuServe sign-up packs at > RadioShack in maybe 1979 (I joined CIS in 1988. I even remember my ID: > 70153,3367). I also remember in high school (around 1983) using a DECwriter > to dial into the timesharing computer (at 300 baud; I don't know the host > system) at one of the local universities. From robertw63 at hotmail.com Tue Jul 20 02:50:42 2004 From: robertw63 at hotmail.com (Robert William) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Early timesharing/BBS systems Message-ID: Time-sharing services were pretty common in the early 70s when powerful computers were difficult to afford for even medium-sized companies. Dec pdp-10s were often used. The company I worked for in the UK at the start of the 70s used a computer bureau called TSL (Time Sharing Limited) who offered both an interactive Focal-like language and compiled Fortran. The terminal was a standard 10cps teletype with paper-tape reader/punch. Careful checking of input was needed because of the high costs involved. As an example I recall making a single error in a several thousand line circuit analysis program (we were designing early integrated circuits using it) and the resulting failed compilation cost £80 ($140) - quite a lot of cash in 1972! The username and password from those days is so burned into my brain that I still frequently use them today! As recently as 1981 I was managing a multi-terminal IC design department time-sharing over a muxed 2400b line to a CDC supercomputer for Spice analyses with the output on the noisiest drum printer I've ever sat beside! Thankfully an in-house Vax then appeared. Bob Adamson >-----Original Message----- >From: Richard A. Cini [mailto:rcini@optonline.net] >Sent: 17 July 2004 16:51 >To: CCTalk (E-mail) >Subject: Early timesharing/BBS systems > >Hello, all: > > I was at VCFe yesterday and I have to say that the speakers and >demonstrations were great. Sellam did a fantastic job and where the event >was located at the Sun facilities worked out perfectly. One demo that I >missed was the ARPANET dial-up simulation which wasn't there when I left >at >3:30. > > Anyway, this demo brings-up an interesting question. What kind of >dial-up >systems existed in the 70's before consumer-oriented services like >CompuServe? I remember the DowJones and CompuServe sign-up packs at >RadioShack in maybe 1979 (I joined CIS in 1988. I even remember my ID: >70153,3367). I also remember in high school (around 1983) using a >DECwriter >to dial into the timesharing computer (at 300 baud; I don't know the host >system) at one of the local universities. > > Just curious. Thanks. > >Rich > >Rich Cini >Collector of classic computers >Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project >Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ >/************************************************************/ > > > _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From johnbscot at btconnect.com Tue Jul 20 04:23:40 2004 From: johnbscot at btconnect.com (John Ballantyne) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Thurlby LA160 Logic analyser Message-ID: Lee, were you able to get a manual for the la160? I require a copy as well. can you help? Best wishes John From cannings at earthlink.net Tue Jul 20 13:18:17 2004 From: cannings at earthlink.net (Steven Canning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chipsetsay?! References: <002d01c46ae6$ccb2aaa0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> <006001c46dd0$aaeb77c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <001601c46e85$ee186b60$6401a8c0@hal9000> For an open house ( many moons ago ) we had the chipset say " Hughes Aircraft Sucks ! " We wrote a program in FORTH that ran on an Apple II that would say whatever a " guest " would type on the keyboard. We correctly guessed that the above sentence would be the most popular. All of my Heathkit " Hero " robots use that chip ( SC-01 ). It's kinda like teaching a kid with a speech impediment to talk. You have to think in " phonetic " terms and then things work okay. Best regards, Steven From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Tue Jul 20 15:52:10 2004 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Dragon 64 fixing... In-Reply-To: <1090264052.27351.170.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Jul 19, 2004 07:07:32 PM Message-ID: <200407202052.i6KKqAxq024917@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> > Jules Richardson wrote: > >If someone can confirm that my missing chip *is* an LM1889 then I can >desolder the one from the '32 and try it in the '64... > >cheers > >Jules > Don't know if there's a big difference between the UK and the US version (besides power and television support of course). But these are closeup pics of my Dragon64's motherboard (Tano version). It appears someone stuck an eprom with COCO based stuff on it in there. Besides the Centronics reference, anyone have any idea what it might be? Warning - these are large (half a meg each). http://www.classicgaming.com/gamingmuseum/dragon1.jpg http://www.classicgaming.com/gamingmuseum/dragon2.jpg http://www.classicgaming.com/gamingmuseum/dragon3.jpg Marty ClassicGaming.Com Atari Gaming Headquarters www.atarihq.com From mbg at TheWorld.com Wed Jul 21 00:21:17 2004 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: VCF Update!! References: <001001c46b9b$956bf640$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <200407210521.BAA1335794@shell.TheWorld.com> >I had my digital cam with me, but was running around too much to get any >pictures. If someone got some pictures of the show, I'd love a URL to >them! I got pictures of all the exhibits which were still there on day-2 (saturday). I also got video of two exhibits with the owners explaining them. The next time, I'd like to do that with every exhibit. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL,ST| email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01824 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From waisun.chia at hp.com Wed Jul 21 09:13:39 2004 From: waisun.chia at hp.com (Wai-Sun Chia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: IM6100 project plan options (was OSI 560Z: DEC PDP-8 clone using 6100 & 6502) In-Reply-To: <004b01c46e5f$9a9f0dc0$0801010a@LIFEBOOK> References: <004b01c46e5f$9a9f0dc0$0801010a@LIFEBOOK> Message-ID: <40FE7A13.5010505@hp.com> Here's my 2 cents: I think quite a substantial effort has been in replicating/reproducing the mystical "blinkenlights" effects of a real PDP8..culminating in the FP6120, a brilliant effort I must say (although price is a bit steep for me personally). Perhaps it's time to veer away from the "lights and switches" track. Perhaps I can suggest this: Use the 6100 to build a minimal system. Memory to the max; i.e. 32kW (battery backed to emulate core). A standard console. No lights no switches to save costs. No IDE/ATA, again to save cost. With the money saved in the IDE interface we can plunk in more core (err..SRAM) to emulate storage, I dunno, say a dual TU56 worth of storage? 512kW. So now we have PDP8/E with a maxed out core and a dual TU56. Now, I'm just thinking as I type.. Just thought of cool idea. Why don't we add an Omnibus slot into our little 6100-based PDP8? That'll be cool to the neo-hardware hackers!! Or maybe we increase that to 4 Omnibus slots, so that we can test existing boards...RK8E, etc. Heh. How about a 10/100Mbps Omnibus board? :-) Or a Omnibus sound card? Wow! The list is endless... Wonder if you could squeeze a rudimentary TCP/IP stack below 32kW? You know what I'm getting at.. :-) Run www.pdp8.org with a real PDP8!! I think I've rambled enough... Robert Armstrong wrote: > Hi Guys, > > I built the SBC6120 (a PDP-8/E clone based on the HD6120 chip, > http://sbc6120.SpareTimeGizmos.com) but a bunch of the people in the > SBC6120 group also have IM6100 chips, sometimes tubes of 'em. We've > been having a little discussion about what to do with them on the > SBC6120 mailing list, and when I heard about this thread I thought I'd > open up the discussion. > > To start off, I can think of a couple of ways to go with the 6100: > > * Another machine with a real lights and switches front panel (a > simplified SBC6120+FP6120). To save money we'd have to use cheap metal > handle (e.g. "Altair style") toggle switches instead of paddle switches. > There'd be no fancy silk screened faceplate like the SBC6120 - if we had > any faceplate, it'd probably be some laser printed graphics sandwiched > between two clear sheets of plastic (again, "Altair style"!). You might > even have to drill your own faceplate - STG might not offer a precut > one. > > * An Intercept Jr clone, including the octal keypad and octal display. > Maybe even powered by 3 or 4 "D" cells like the original Intercept Jr. > > * A single board computer with an onboard EPROM to talk to a terminal > using something like LSI-11 CODT. No lights, no switches. Basically a > simplified (and less capable) SBC6120. > > All of the options would have 4K of memory and a console terminal > interface. They'd run FOCAL-69, DECUS CHESS, or any other 4K paper tape > software. No mass storage and no OS/8. > > Would anybody like to cast a vote? Does anybody have another idea? > > Thanks, > Bob > > -- /wai-sun From stacie at computerspectrum.com Wed Jul 21 13:45:41 2004 From: stacie at computerspectrum.com (Stacie Creed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Motorola Powerstack 603e Message-ID: <91D9905F0B2BF94D972BB52D84A9F2190210AC@csisrv1.csi.local> Hi! Just wondering if you have anything like this still lying around. Let me know when you can, Stacie Creed 502-585-8866 From m1dlg at soulwax.co.uk Wed Jul 21 17:54:22 2004 From: m1dlg at soulwax.co.uk (Dennis Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Dragon 64 fixing... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40FEF41E.8030804@soulwax.co.uk> Tony Duell wrote: >The Dragon is based round 3 chips. The 6809E processor, the 6883 SAM, >which handles address decoding, DRAM control, video address generation, >etc, and the 6847 VDG which contains the character generator, video shift >registers, etc. Since you're getting stable video, I guess the SAM and >VDG are doing something (maybe not the right things, but let's assume >they're OK for the moment). It sounds like the SAM and RAM are not being >initialised properly, which sounds like a CPU, ROM, or RAM fault. Or PSU, >reset circuit, or... > >-tony > > i hear this is what made the old encryption / decryption method work for analogue SKY boxes....... one chip was in the card and the other 2 was in the box - apparently the same 3 chips as in the dragon (don't ask me how though - i don't know- i've never understood) DJ From dj.taylor at starpower.net Wed Jul 21 19:37:46 2004 From: dj.taylor at starpower.net (Douglas Taylor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: VCF East Pictures In-Reply-To: <3a5ac4$3va3u4@mxip12a.cluster1.charter.net> References: <3a5ac4$3va3u4@mxip12a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.0.20040721203630.01b71ca8@pop.starpower.net> Thank you for posting the pictures, I've been interested in attending VCF and your pictures make it come alive. Maybe I'll haul a Vax and/or PDP11 to show off! Thanks again. Doug Taylor At 09:59 PM 7/20/2004, you wrote: >I have posted a smattering of pictures from the first day of VCF East here >- http://home.comcast.net/~msmith6020/VCF.html. I had to leave >mid-afternoon on Friday and wasn't able to get a clear shot of every >exhibit due to the crowd. > >-W From esharpe at cox.net Thu Jul 22 01:32:58 2004 From: esharpe at cox.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Honeywell DATAmatic 1000 Message-ID: <012601c46fb5$bacb5cf0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Honeywell DATAmatic 1000 http://www.smecc.org/datamatic_1000_vol_1_the_assembly_program.htm New document on site showing in all of its glory the tape drive that reads 31 channel 3 inch wide tape. need to talk to people that had experience on this system, and of course needs more parts and books and photos for the site as well as the inhouse museum display. Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 From guygolden at excite.com Thu Jul 22 09:04:08 2004 From: guygolden at excite.com (Louis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: RF74 Disk Drives Message-ID: <20040722140408.DA2D6B6CC@xprdmailfe19.nwk.excite.com> Do you have any RF74 disk drives left? _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Thu Jul 22 09:51:43 2004 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: RZ25-E in a VAXstation 4000 vlc? In-Reply-To: <40F65272.4000402@hp.com> References: <97F809DE-D5B8-11D8-BEA5-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> <40F65272.4000402@hp.com> Message-ID: I would like to thank everyone for their suggestions. My VAXstation 4000 VLC is now up and running. I ended up using a Quantum Fireball 2gb SCSI drive and a Toshiba TXM3401E1 CD-ROM drive for installation. That worked and I am now successfully running VMS 7.2 and having fun playing with DEC C and Basic. My next project is trying to figure out how to get TCP/IP installed and configured so that I can put the VAX on my network. Again, thanks everyone for your help and suggestions. David On Jul 15, 2004, at 5:46 AM, Wai-Sun Chia wrote: > David Betz wrote: >> I have a VAXstation 4000 vlc without an internal hard disk and a >> spare RZ25-E drive. I had thought I could install the drive in the >> vlc but it seems from inspection that the vlc needs a lower profile >> drive. What drives are compatible with the vlc? If it won't work as >> an internal > > A RZ28 2GB should work fine. > > /wai-sun > From spedraja at ono.com Thu Jul 22 10:01:13 2004 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Document request References: <200407191714.i6JHEEJX011242@ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Message-ID: <001501c46ffc$bb494740$0f02a8c0@WorkGroup> It would be good to know where are actually the AT&T manuals that appeared in some moment in this websute. Of course, not in www.imsai8080.com where Google signals, mostly because it appears to be down. Cheers Sergio ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Watzman To: Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 7:14 PM Subject: Document request > It turns out that about 3 years after they went out of business, a 12-volume > "Encyclopedia" of Processor Technology data was published by Stan Sokolow > called the "Encyclopedia Processor Technica", aka "EPT". [There is some > question as to whether volume 12 was ever actually published.] > > I'm trying to find this and get it converted to PDF files. Bob Stek has > loaned me volume 9 to scan (covers the Helios Disk System), which will soon > be on Howard's site (http://www.hartetechnologies.com/manuals/). > > Does anyone have any of the other volumes? This is a rare document, there > were probably no more than a couple of hundred printed, if even that many, > and that was over 20 years ago. > > If you have this and are willing to loan it out for scanning, or scan it > yourself (each volume is about 300+ pages), please contact me > (Watzman@neo.rr.com). > > Still looking for a number of other manuals also, plus anything that isn't > in the library (these below have specific requests): > > * AB Digital Design Labs B810 RAM > * CCS 2820 CPU Board Manual > * CCS 2-Serial/2-Parallel Card Manual > * Cromemco [2716] 32K Bytesaver > * Cromemco 64KZ Manual > * DIGITEX Systems Manuals. > * DUAL Systems Manuals not listed. > * Ithaca Audio 1010 CPU Board > * NNC ("No-Name Computers") Manuals > * OSM Computer Corp Z80 CPU "CPU/64K" Board > * S. D. Sales Expando-Ram I, III Manuals (any/all versions) > * Zeus System Manuals > > Thanks, > Barry Watzman > > > From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Thu Jul 22 10:21:25 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Concrete Computers art exhibit In-Reply-To: <40FEEED1.5040500@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <003501c46ea8$6311f9a0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> <25AFEBF0-DB24-11D8-822A-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <40FEA896.8030201@jetnet.ab.ca> <20040721123848.U59731@newshell.lmi.net> <40FEEED1.5040500@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: Oh, We are ark B, everyone else perished when their telephones became dirty. right :^) I think I will take a bath now..... From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jul 22 10:23:00 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Early timesharing (TYMSHARE) References: Message-ID: <007901c46fff$c6792bf0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> FYI - I noticed last night I have a 3 ring binder full of documentation for using the TYMSHARE network. Is this of any interest to scan & archive? Jay From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu Jul 22 10:39:45 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Early timesharing (TYMSHARE) In-Reply-To: <007901c46fff$c6792bf0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: I enter a YES vote! >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jay West >>> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 11:23 AM >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>> Subject: Re: Early timesharing (TYMSHARE) >>> >>> FYI - I noticed last night I have a 3 ring binder full of >>> documentation for using the TYMSHARE network. Is this of >>> any interest to scan & archive? >>> >>> Jay >>> From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 22 10:14:49 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Motorola Powerstack 603e In-Reply-To: <91D9905F0B2BF94D972BB52D84A9F2190210AC@csisrv1.csi.local> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040722111449.00922d30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I have a couple of them around. Interested? Joe At 02:45 PM 7/21/04 -0400, you wrote: >Hi! Just wondering if you have anything like this still lying around. > >Let me know when you can, > >Stacie Creed >502-585-8866 > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 22 10:39:53 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Anybody here work on HP 7905/7920 disk drives? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040722113953.008bebb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Went scrounging yesterday and found a small plastic box of what looks like HP disk drive test/alignment accessories. Parts include 07905-60049, 07905-60039, 5061-1386, 07920-60030 and 07920-62421. Anybody need this stuff? The box is filled with that old self-disintegrating foam so the stuff will need to be cleaned up but it looks like it's in very good condition (the box is in rough shape). Joe From Pres at macro-inc.com Thu Jul 22 10:44:10 2004 From: Pres at macro-inc.com (Ed Kelleher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: DEC AXV11 A/D Board Connector Pinout Wanted In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.0.20040713194627.01af5408@pop.starpower.net> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20040722114218.0248af30@192.168.0.1> At 07:50 PM 7/13/2004, you wrote: >As you can tell from the heading I have one of these boards. In the DEC >Micronotes there are some simple programs that show you how to acquire >data with it, however I don't know how you connect the board to outside >sources for sampling,etc. Anyone have info? I think I saw something in >the Vax 4000/200 manuals that talked about a cabinet kit for this board - >a UDIP - does this ring any bells? AXV11-C is dual width A0026 board. From the manual: Table 2-10 AXV11-C Connector Jl Pin Assignments Pin Signal Name 1 CH 0 2 CH 8 or RETURN 0 3 CH 1 4 CH 9 or RETURN 1 5 CH 2 6 CH 10 or RETURN 2 7 CH 3 8 CH 11 or RETURN 3 9 CH4 10 CH 12 or RETURN 4 11 CH 5 12 CH 13 or RETURN 5 13 CH 6 14 CH 14 or RETURN 6 15 CH 7 16 CH15 or RETURN 7 17 A GND 18 AMPL (amp ground) 19 EXTTRIGINL 20 D GND 21 RTC IN L 22 D GND 23 DAC A RETURN 24 DAC A OUT 25 DAC B RETURN 26 DAC B OUT 2.7.1 Single-Ended Inputs (16 Channels) Single-ended analog inputs have one side of the user's analog source connected to the A/D converter amplifier and the other side connected to ground, as shown in Figure 2-8. From melamy at earthlink.net Thu Jul 22 11:02:13 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: MDS series II again In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040722113953.008bebb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040722115647.027937c0@mail.earthlink.net> Hi Joe, I made it back to Washington state okay and I have been thinking about the series II schematics you have. Any chance of sending them to me (on me of course), so I can get them down to Kinkos to copy? I would like to get them up on bitsavers to boot. Let me know. Also, if though I would ask if you had given any more though to a series II or mds-80 that I could buy from you. I would definitely be interested. One of the things I need to do is build cables that run from a series II to the dual drive cabinets. I don't have either one back in VA but I have two or three dual cabinets (misc mfgs) that I want to use in the Intel system. Let me know. Thanks! best regards, Steve Thatcher From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Jul 22 11:19:58 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Xerox Sigma VII --- big IRON Message-ID: <40FFE92E.58833D4F@ccp.com> Just reminiscing over my first encounter with computers back in 1970 ----- It was a Xerox Sigma VII in the basement of the Montana State University. REAL batch programming, with stacks of punchcards, and a really crappy compiler that burped when it hit the first error. APL was done via dialup terminal and Teletype machine --- dial the number and plug in the handset (Ma Bell wouldn't allow direct connection of modems to their phonelines back then). Does anyone have a picture of said critter? I'd like to get one just for memory's sake. Sigma VII was a computer one loved to hate. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From spedraja at ono.com Thu Jul 22 11:25:06 2004 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: AT&T 3B2/400 items and spares References: <3.0.6.32.20040722111449.00922d30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <004b01c47008$75802c40$0f02a8c0@WorkGroup> Hello everybody. I've received one AT&T 3B2/400 computer two weeks ago with some dumb terminals in perfect state of working, plus manuals and AT&T Unix 3.0 and 3.1. I should like to get in addition: * 5.25 720k floppy discs. * More packages and manuals than the basic distribution. Mostly programming items. * SCSI and NI (ethernet) boards for it (and other brother that shall arrive in some weeks). The NIA (Starlan) board would be interesting too but in a minor level. * Some kind of graphic terminal. I know it existed in some time for this machine ;-) * One interesting item would be one AT&T /XM expansion enclosure. * Other items than could be applied for this machine. Oh, and one soul that could provide me with the GCC compiler for the AT&T 3B2 (native or crosss-compiling enabled). I can't be capable to compile any of the GCC versions and put them operative for the 3B2 or doing cross-compiling. Thanks in advance Sergio From hansp at citem.org Thu Jul 22 11:28:46 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Early timesharing (TYMSHARE) In-Reply-To: <007901c46fff$c6792bf0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <007901c46fff$c6792bf0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <40FFEB3E.5050102@citem.org> Jay West wrote: > FYI - I noticed last night I have a 3 ring binder full of documentation for > using the TYMSHARE network. Is this of any interest to scan & archive? Need you ask? ;-) -- HansP From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 22 11:36:52 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: front panel toggle & paddle switches? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040722123652.008c3870@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone have a list of the part numbers and brands of the various toggle and paddle switches used on the various computers? Or better yet, close up pictures of the switches? I find lots of surplus equipment with nice toggle and paddle switches and I keep wondering if they're the same as those used on any of the collectible computers and if I should pull the switches and save them. Joe From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jul 22 11:45:42 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Early timesharing (TYMSHARE) In-Reply-To: <007901c46fff$c6792bf0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> from "Jay West" at Jul 22, 2004 10:23:00 AM Message-ID: <200407221645.i6MGjglr006625@onyx.spiritone.com> > FYI - I noticed last night I have a 3 ring binder full of documentation for > using the TYMSHARE network. Is this of any interest to scan & archive? > > Jay Yes, please. Zane From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jul 22 11:57:27 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Anybody here work on HP 7905/7920 disk drives? References: <3.0.6.32.20040722113953.008bebb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001201c4700c$f84de730$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I'd be quite interested in these, as I'm sure some other people would be too. Any chance we could get pictures? Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 10:39 AM Subject: Anybody here work on HP 7905/7920 disk drives? > Went scrounging yesterday and found a small plastic box of what looks > like HP disk drive test/alignment accessories. Parts include 07905-60049, > 07905-60039, 5061-1386, 07920-60030 and 07920-62421. Anybody need this > stuff? The box is filled with that old self-disintegrating foam so the > stuff will need to be cleaned up but it looks like it's in very good > condition (the box is in rough shape). > > Joe > From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jul 22 12:00:58 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Early timesharing (TYMSHARE) References: <200407221645.i6MGjglr006625@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <002a01c4700d$75de5f90$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Al, with this latest TYMSHARE addition, I think I should just drive a truckload to your place with all the manuals I have for you now to archive. Has to fit in a truck though, no more trailer festivities *grin* Jay From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu Jul 22 12:14:32 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Early timesharing (TYMSHARE) In-Reply-To: <002a01c4700d$75de5f90$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jay West >>> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 1:01 PM >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>> Subject: Re: Early timesharing (TYMSHARE) >>> >>> Al, with this latest TYMSHARE addition, I think I should >>> just drive a truckload to your place with all the manuals I >>> have for you now to archive. >>> Has to fit in a truck though, no more trailer festivities *grin* >>> >>> Jay >>> Thinking the "group" should buy/lease a medium sized cargo plane based on all of the stuff that is moving around these days..... From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Jul 22 12:24:13 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Anybody here work on HP 7905/7920 disk drives? Message-ID: <200407221724.KAA17560@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I will be interested as soon as I get a 7905 :) Dwight >From: "Jay West" > >I'd be quite interested in these, as I'm sure some other people would be >too. Any chance we could get pictures? > >Jay >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe R." >To: >Cc: >Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 10:39 AM >Subject: Anybody here work on HP 7905/7920 disk drives? > > >> Went scrounging yesterday and found a small plastic box of what looks >> like HP disk drive test/alignment accessories. Parts include 07905-60049, >> 07905-60039, 5061-1386, 07920-60030 and 07920-62421. Anybody need this >> stuff? The box is filled with that old self-disintegrating foam so the >> stuff will need to be cleaned up but it looks like it's in very good >> condition (the box is in rough shape). >> >> Joe >> > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jul 22 12:32:39 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Early timesharing (TYMSHARE) References: Message-ID: <003f01c47011$e317a8b0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > Thinking the "group" should buy/lease a medium sized cargo plane based on > all of the stuff that is moving around these days..... Oh yeah, awesome idea! I'm a private pilot, and I know Bob Shannon and Megan Gentry are... so that covers piloting on the east coast and central section. West coast classiccmp pilots here? Hummm *rushing off to check on 501C3 status for classiccmp* Jay From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jul 22 12:46:25 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Anybody here work on HP 7905/7920 disk drives? References: <200407221724.KAA17560@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <000001c47013$fa2e89e0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Dwight, where were you when I was giving away a bunch of 7905/6 drives a couple months ago? *grin* I don't think I have any extras now, except one that is being used as parts and is clearly non-functional now. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwight K. Elvey" To: Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 12:24 PM Subject: Re: Anybody here work on HP 7905/7920 disk drives? > Hi > I will be interested as soon as I get a 7905 :) > Dwight > > >From: "Jay West" > > > >I'd be quite interested in these, as I'm sure some other people would be > >too. Any chance we could get pictures? > > > >Jay > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Joe R." > >To: > >Cc: > >Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 10:39 AM > >Subject: Anybody here work on HP 7905/7920 disk drives? > > > > > >> Went scrounging yesterday and found a small plastic box of what looks > >> like HP disk drive test/alignment accessories. Parts include 07905-60049, > >> 07905-60039, 5061-1386, 07920-60030 and 07920-62421. Anybody need this > >> stuff? The box is filled with that old self-disintegrating foam so the > >> stuff will need to be cleaned up but it looks like it's in very good > >> condition (the box is in rough shape). > >> > >> Joe > >> > > > > > > > From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Jul 22 12:47:48 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: was: Early timesharing now: pilotage In-Reply-To: <003f01c47011$e317a8b0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <003f01c47011$e317a8b0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Jay West wrote: >> Thinking the "group" should buy/lease a medium sized cargo plane based on >> all of the stuff that is moving around these days..... > > Oh yeah, awesome idea! I'm a private pilot, and I know Bob Shannon and Megan > Gentry are... so that covers piloting on the east coast and central section. > West coast classiccmp pilots here? PPMEL/IFR here - hmmm - I wonder if that'd require a Transport rating...? Dang - we could all go in Cahoots and buy a DC-3 to haul our Classic Stuff in... ;} Cheers John "Out of the blue of the Western Sky...." From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jul 22 12:45:21 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Early timesharing (TYMSHARE) References: <003f01c47011$e317a8b0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <40FFFD31.4030601@jetnet.ab.ca> Jay West wrote: >>Thinking the "group" should buy/lease a medium sized cargo plane based on >>all of the stuff that is moving around these days..... > > > Oh yeah, awesome idea! I'm a private pilot, and I know Bob Shannon and Megan > Gentry are... so that covers piloting on the east coast and central section. > West coast classiccmp pilots here? > > Hummm *rushing off to check on 501C3 status for classiccmp* > > Jay But the real question is * DO you do air drops? * Ben. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jul 22 12:40:05 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Commodore Pet ROM trouble... EPROM Substitutes... In-Reply-To: wolfgang@eichberger.org "Re: Commodore Pet ROM trouble... EPROM Substitutes..." (Jul 22, 13:09) References: <200407221109.i6MB9kpH020285@everymail-A16-C02.everymail.net> Message-ID: <10407221840.ZM22794@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 22, 13:09, wolfgang@eichberger.org wrote: > 2732 2532 > EPROM -> SOCKET > Pin(s) Pin(s) > 1-17 -> 1-17 > 18 (E) -> 20 (PD/PGM) > 19(A10)-> 19 (A10) > 20(GVpp)> 21 (Vpp) > 21(A11)-> 18 (A11) > 22-24 -> 22-24 That should certainly work for reading. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu Jul 22 13:06:47 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Airplane (was Early Timeshare) In-Reply-To: <003f01c47011$e317a8b0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: See the following for information on 501c3... http://foundationgroup.bizsitenetworks.com/default.asp?SID=887&FP=2874 Jay, if we could actually do this it would probably be the most amazing feat! Just remember if you start looking at planes, to check the tires! David. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jay West >>> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 1:33 PM >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>> Subject: Re: Early timesharing (TYMSHARE) >>> >>> > Thinking the "group" should buy/lease a medium sized >>> cargo plane based >>> > on all of the stuff that is moving around these days..... >>> >>> Oh yeah, awesome idea! I'm a private pilot, and I know Bob >>> Shannon and Megan Gentry are... so that covers piloting on >>> the east coast and central section. >>> West coast classiccmp pilots here? >>> >>> Hummm *rushing off to check on 501C3 status for classiccmp* >>> >>> Jay >>> From shirsch at adelphia.net Thu Jul 22 13:06:35 2004 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Apple IIe ROM In-Reply-To: <200407221243.i6MChNXU005832@smtp30.hccnet.nl> References: <200407221243.i6MChNXU005832@smtp30.hccnet.nl> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Freek Heite wrote: > >From: Mike Kenzie > >Subject: Re: Apple IIe ROM > >Does anyone know of a reference that might list ALL the ROMs produced for > the IIe? > > No list - but if you happen to find an Apple IIe with the text " Apple //f " > on the startup screen, you might have found my old Apple - for which my > dealer made me a personalized ROM. > Besides that small gadget, the code that overwrites some memory locations > when the reset key is hit, was nopped in the new ROM. I have a copy (somewhere) of the //e debugger ROM, which signs on as: Apple //db It had some additional built-in routines which were handy for development. Anyone else ever seen one of these? It was given to me while I was doing contract development for Applied Engineering, circa 1986 or so. Steve Quote of the Year: "The five person voting panel voted 57 to 3.14 in favour of getting rid of the Diebold machines." - 'Downside' From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jul 22 13:26:29 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Early timesharing (TYMSHARE) In-Reply-To: <40FFFD31.4030601@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <003f01c47011$e317a8b0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <40FFFD31.4030601@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <410006D5.7060207@mdrconsult.com> ben franchuk wrote: > Jay West wrote: > >>> Thinking the "group" should buy/lease a medium sized cargo plane >>> based on >>> all of the stuff that is moving around these days..... >> >> >> >> Oh yeah, awesome idea! I'm a private pilot, and I know Bob Shannon and >> Megan >> Gentry are... so that covers piloting on the east coast and central >> section. >> West coast classiccmp pilots here? >> >> Hummm *rushing off to check on 501C3 status for classiccmp* >> >> Jay > > > > But the real question is * DO you do air drops? * > Ben. Isn't that Ethan's line? ;) Doc From jplist at kiwigeek.com Thu Jul 22 13:31:10 2004 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Airplane (was Early Timeshare) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My father owns an English light transport aircraft, carries up to twelve passengers - when the seats are in. (http://www.kiwigeek.com/hjp/memoirs/devon.jpg - 1950 DeHavilland Devon, ex RNZAF) Doesn't help any people in the US though, since the aircraft is based in New Zealand. JP > Jay, > > if we could actually do this it would probably be the most amazing feat! > > Just remember if you start looking at planes, to check the tires! and running> > > David. > > > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jay West > >>> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 1:33 PM > >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > >>> Subject: Re: Early timesharing (TYMSHARE) > >>> > >>> > Thinking the "group" should buy/lease a medium sized > >>> cargo plane based > >>> > on all of the stuff that is moving around these days..... > >>> > >>> Oh yeah, awesome idea! I'm a private pilot, and I know Bob > >>> Shannon and Megan Gentry are... so that covers piloting on > >>> the east coast and central section. > >>> West coast classiccmp pilots here? > >>> > >>> Hummm *rushing off to check on 501C3 status for classiccmp* > >>> > >>> Jay > >>> > > From design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca Thu Jul 22 13:43:02 2004 From: design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca (The Design Fort DTP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: An ancient greek computer In-Reply-To: <001201c4700c$f84de730$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <3.0.6.32.20040722113953.008bebb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <001201c4700c$f84de730$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: My archaeology hobby leads me to some strange places sometimes, and sometimes I wonder if our culture is the first with "computing power". Some of you might already know about this, but I still find the subject very interesting... Check out this webpage about the mechanism of Antikythera, an ancient greek computer: http://www.giant.net.au/users/rupert/kythera/kythera3.htm Wouldn't it be fun to re-create this thing? Greetings Herbert The Computer Museum of Nova Scotia From india_50 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 22 14:05:37 2004 From: india_50 at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Subramanian=20Iyer?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 11, Issue 42 In-Reply-To: <200407221700.i6MH03be071145@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040722190537.13612.qmail@web14203.mail.yahoo.com> hi guys, great info on the rounds here. btw i happend to find an old comp, i fig must be atleast 15-20yrs old. i fig that it has a NECV30 (similar to 8088) i guess. no idea if its still in workin cond. i tried checkin, the powersupply's alright, and the power reaches the processor and the other chips. the bios chip is on board (andi doubt that's the trouble maker) can somebody tellme where ican find some info on manual bootstrapping it. the monoc monitor that came with it does not work, so how do i proceed. i hv my hols now and would like to work on it. tu ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com From aek at spies.com Thu Jul 22 14:08:18 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: MDS series II again Message-ID: <20040722190818.5BAD23C4B@spies.com> I have been thinking about the series II schematics you have. Any chance of sending them to me (on me of course), so I can get them down to Kinkos to copy? -- Are you looking for Intellec Series 2? Monitor on top, boards load from the front? From allain at panix.com Thu Jul 22 14:31:30 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: Varian 620? References: <3.0.6.32.20040709231001.008ab410@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <40F545B4.5070900@topinform.de> Message-ID: <011301c47022$7e025ea0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Varian 620? > Does anybody around still have one of these that works? Professor Herbert Freeman had a Varian at RPI in the 80's. Check him out and see if he's an archivist by now. http://www-caip.rutgers.edu/~freeman/ John A. From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jul 22 14:33:16 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chipsetsay?! In-Reply-To: <40FF5D91.30303@verizon.net> References: <006001c46dd0$aaeb77c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <40220.217.196.231.101.1090415622.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> <40FF5D91.30303@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20040722123053.M84447@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, JimD wrote: > Digitalker??? mention no more these high tech silicon voicesters, I > speak of none other > than the MIGHTY VOTRAX. The first and only overpriced analog phonum synth, > RUSTY WHITNEY WANTS A CHEEZE BURGER, > Enought said? Deborah Norling, who is blind and uses them much more than ANY of us, referred to the Votrax as sounding "like a Martian in a tin can" From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Jul 22 14:39:16 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: was: Early timesharing now: pilotage References: <003f01c47011$e317a8b0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <16640.6116.548977.135019@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "John" == John Lawson writes: John> On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Jay West wrote: >>> Thinking the "group" should buy/lease a medium sized cargo plane >>> based on all of the stuff that is moving around these days..... >> Oh yeah, awesome idea! I'm a private pilot, and I know Bob Shannon >> and Megan Gentry are... so that covers piloting on the east coast >> and central section. West coast classiccmp pilots here? John> PPMEL/IFR here - hmmm - I wonder if that'd require a Transport John> rating...? John> Dang - we could all go in Cahoots and buy a DC-3 to haul our John> Classic Stuff in... ;} Don't need ATP, just type certification in whatever type it is... paul From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 22 14:50:01 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:25 2005 Subject: An ancient greek computer In-Reply-To: References: <001201c4700c$f84de730$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <3.0.6.32.20040722113953.008bebb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <001201c4700c$f84de730$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040722155001.008cdd30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I saw an ad on the History Channel that says that the program Ancient Discoveries is on tonight at 8PM (Eastern Time) and it's supposed to be about the Antikythera. Joe At 03:43 PM 7/22/04 -0300, you wrote: >My archaeology hobby leads me to some strange places sometimes, and >sometimes I wonder if our culture is the first with "computing power". > >Some of you might already know about this, but I still find the >subject very interesting... >Check out this webpage about the mechanism of Antikythera, an ancient >greek computer: >http://www.giant.net.au/users/rupert/kythera/kythera3.htm > >Wouldn't it be fun to re-create this thing? > >Greetings >Herbert >The Computer Museum of Nova Scotia > From design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca Thu Jul 22 15:00:12 2004 From: design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca (The Design Fort DTP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: An ancient greek computer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040722155001.008cdd30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <001201c4700c$f84de730$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <3.0.6.32.20040722113953.008bebb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <001201c4700c$f84de730$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <3.0.6.32.20040722155001.008cdd30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Hi Joe, I didn't know that. What a coincidence... I will watch that tonight... Thanks! Herbert > I saw an ad on the History Channel that says that the program Ancient >Discoveries is on tonight at 8PM (Eastern Time) and it's supposed to be >about the Antikythera. > > Joe > > > >At 03:43 PM 7/22/04 -0300, you wrote: >>My archaeology hobby leads me to some strange places sometimes, and >>sometimes I wonder if our culture is the first with "computing power". >> >>Some of you might already know about this, but I still find the >>subject very interesting... >>Check out this webpage about the mechanism of Antikythera, an ancient >>greek computer: >>http://www.giant.net.au/users/rupert/kythera/kythera3.htm >> >>Wouldn't it be fun to re-create this thing? >> >>Greetings >>Herbert >>The Computer Museum of Nova Scotia >> From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Jul 22 15:01:21 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalker chipsetsay?! In-Reply-To: <20040722123053.M84447@newshell.lmi.net> References: <40220.217.196.231.101.1090415622.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> <40FF5D91.30303@verizon.net> <20040722123053.M84447@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: In message <20040722123053.M84447@newshell.lmi.net> Fred Cisin wrote: > Deborah Norling, who is blind and uses them much more than ANY of us, > referred to the Votrax as sounding "like a Martian in a tin can" What about the General Instrument SPO256? You can just about understand what it's saying if you listen to it a few times... Anyone got some spare 3.12MHz crystals lying around? Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... ASCII and ye shall receive. From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Thu Jul 22 15:01:11 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: PDP11/73 power-up codes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601c47026$a329cbb0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > I didn't immediately find power-up codes in it -- probably > because something like MXV11-B2 or other ROM set issues the > codes. > > If I can find an MXV11 doc, I'll post a message. I used to > have one. > > Contact me if you want the KDJ11 manual. You can search on mxv11 and kdj11 on Manx http://vt100.net/manx/ and you'll find manuals and printsets. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Jul 22 15:17:12 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: Commodore Pet ROM trouble... EPROM Substitutes... In-Reply-To: <10407221840.ZM22794@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <200407221109.i6MB9kpH020285@everymail-A16-C02.everymail.net> <10407221840.ZM22794@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3c38a6d24c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <10407221840.ZM22794@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jul 22, 13:09, wolfgang@eichberger.org wrote: > > > 2732 2532 > > EPROM -> SOCKET > > Pin(s) Pin(s) > > 1-17 -> 1-17 > > 18 (E) -> 20 (PD/PGM) > > 19(A10)-> 19 (A10) > > 20(GVpp)> 21 (Vpp) > > 21(A11)-> 18 (A11) > > 22-24 -> 22-24 > > That should certainly work for reading. > Not if those pin names are correct. !G is Output Gate, i.e. !OE. I'd connect all the pins straight through, except 18, 20 and 21. 2532 socket 2732 ROM 18 A11 21 A11 21 VPP no-connect 20 !E (PD/PGM) 18 !E 14 Vss 14 and 20 (Vss and !G respectively) Anything else is connected straight through I *think* that'll work. The only difference is that this grounds the 2732's !G (Output Enable) pin instead of rigging it high (Vpp is usually connected to +5V for EPROMs that are wired for reading only). Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... A pound of puppies; a college of cardinals; a bowl of weevils From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 22 15:21:31 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: HP 1000 manuals Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040722162131.00920ce0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> On one of my recent scrounging trips I found a couple of binders with manuals for the HP 1000. Here's a list: Binder 1. 2608A Line Printer Diagnostic Operator's Manual HP 2631A/G Printer Diagnostic Operator's Manual HP 2635A/39A Terminal Diagnostic (for 21xx series computers) High Speed Tape Reader/Punch Diagnostic Referrence Manual HP 12732A/12733A Flexible Disc Suubsystem Diagnostic Rerference Manual HP 2892A/12924A Card Reader Subsystem Diagnostic for HP 2100 Series Computers HP 79xx/13037 Disc Memory Diagnostic Reference manual 2607A Line Printer Diagnostic HP 9866A/12566B Line Printer and Interface Diagnostic Rerference Manual Reference Manual Magnetic Tape Subsystem Diagnostic for 7970B/C/E (9-track) 13181/13183 Interface Extended Memory Area On-Line Diagnostic Reference Manual HP 92900B Data Capture/Data Retrieal Termianl Subsystem Diagnostic Reference Manual HP 91711A Diagnostic and Verfication Package Reference Manual Binder 2. Manual and Software Record (a list of the docs and SW for one particular system) HP 1000 E-Series and F-Series Microprogramming Referrence Manual RTE-IV Assembler Reference Manual If anybody wants to borrow them and copy or scan them you're welcome to but I DO WANT THEM BACK!. I haven't checked them to see if they're on Al's site or not. The manuals are in fair condition. They've been stored in a damp area and the first few pages have some mildew and there's rust around the staples but other than that they're ok. Oh, the pages are loose leaf 8 1/2" x 11". Some of the books are stapled together but you're free to take them apart. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 22 15:25:28 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: Anybody here work on HP 7905/7920 disk drives? In-Reply-To: <001201c4700c$f84de730$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <3.0.6.32.20040722113953.008bebb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040722162528.008c5600@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:57 AM 7/22/04 -0500, you wrote: >I'd be quite interested in these, as I'm sure some other people would be >too. Any chance we could get pictures? They wouldn't do any good. There's pieces of green foam stuck all over the parts. Joe > >Jay >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe R." >To: >Cc: >Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 10:39 AM >Subject: Anybody here work on HP 7905/7920 disk drives? > > >> Went scrounging yesterday and found a small plastic box of what looks >> like HP disk drive test/alignment accessories. Parts include 07905-60049, >> 07905-60039, 5061-1386, 07920-60030 and 07920-62421. Anybody need this >> stuff? The box is filled with that old self-disintegrating foam so the >> stuff will need to be cleaned up but it looks like it's in very good >> condition (the box is in rough shape). >> >> Joe >> > > From RMaxwell at atlantissi.com Thu Jul 22 15:30:58 2004 From: RMaxwell at atlantissi.com (RMaxwell@atlantissi.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: Commodore Pet ROM trouble... EPROM Substitutes... Message-ID: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F128D6@INETMAIL> On 2004-Jul-22 13:09:46 Wolfgang wrote: > > Mentioned TMS2532 Eproms are one of these Unobtainiums here. I've had better luck finding Hitachi's HN462532G version here... in Canada. That may be worth checking for. > Looking at the Pinouts I have in my databooks there are > little (minor?) Differences to the standard 2732's (besides > the different Program Supply Voltage). I couldn't find much 2732 and 2532 program at +25V, 2732A programs at +21V. +25V is fatal to 2732A. Don't ask me how I know that. > ressources online, but would it work if I made a small > adapter like "illustrated" below... > > 2732 2532 > EPROM -> SOCKET > Pin(s) Pin(s) > 1-17 -> 1-17 > 18 (E) -> 20 (PD/PGM) > 19(A10)-> 19 (A10) > 20(GVpp)> 21 (Vpp) No. The 2532 Vpp is always +5V when reading, and would keep 2732 outputs always OFF. The 2532 has just one enable pin, while the 2732 has two. Better to tie 2732-20 to 2532-18 (or to GND - outputs would be always enabled when the chip is selected). > 21(A11)-> 18 (A11) > 22-24 -> 22-24 > > Please correct me, if I'm completely wrong and trying to do > something impossible. Impossible? Nothing's impossible. Messy and difficult, maybe. > 2732's would be easy to obtain, and I have some > prommer-schematics and software handy. So it would be cool > if I could use them. > > Regards, > Wolfgang At VCF East 2.0 I brought along an EPROM programmer and some blank 2532s... not that you would have considered that to be East at all... ;o) Best of luck, Bob From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Jul 22 15:26:39 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: AVAILABLE: PDP11/23 (and /73) SYSTEMS Message-ID: Hi All, It looks like I might have some PDP-11/23 (and/or 73) systems available soon. Given their weight, pickup is preferred, as I will NOT drag em to the post office. These are complete system, not just the CPU's. If interested, drop me a line off-list. Location is SAN GABRIEL, CA, which is just south of Los Angeles. There's also two LA120 DECwriter III's. Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jul 22 15:38:31 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: HP 1000 manuals References: <3.0.6.32.20040722162131.00920ce0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001101c4702b$da1dd7b0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Ones I could use, downloadable PDF's from Al's site are fine.... > HP 2892A/12924A Card Reader Subsystem Diagnostic for HP 2100 Series Computers > HP 9866A/12566B Line Printer and Interface Diagnostic Rerference Manual > RTE-IV Assembler Reference Manual Jay West From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Jul 22 15:58:30 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: Anybody here work on HP 7905/7920 disk drives? Message-ID: <200407222058.NAA17692@clulw009.amd.com> Hi What is the best way to clean this self-destructing foam. I've tried a couple of things without luck. Dwight >From: "Joe R." > >At 11:57 AM 7/22/04 -0500, you wrote: >>I'd be quite interested in these, as I'm sure some other people would be >>too. Any chance we could get pictures? > > They wouldn't do any good. There's pieces of green foam stuck all over >the parts. > > Joe > > >> >>Jay >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Joe R." >>To: >>Cc: >>Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 10:39 AM >>Subject: Anybody here work on HP 7905/7920 disk drives? >> >> >>> Went scrounging yesterday and found a small plastic box of what looks >>> like HP disk drive test/alignment accessories. Parts include 07905-60049, >>> 07905-60039, 5061-1386, 07920-60030 and 07920-62421. Anybody need this >>> stuff? The box is filled with that old self-disintegrating foam so the >>> stuff will need to be cleaned up but it looks like it's in very good >>> condition (the box is in rough shape). >>> >>> Joe >>> >> >> > From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jul 22 16:01:18 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 11, Issue 42 In-Reply-To: <20040722190537.13612.qmail@web14203.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040722190537.13612.qmail@web14203.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040722134507.P84447@newshell.lmi.net> On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, [iso-8859-1] Subramanian Iyer wrote: > hi guys, > great info on the rounds here. > btw i happend to find an old comp, i fig must be > atleast 15-20yrs old. i fig that it has a NECV30 > (similar to 8088) i guess. Do you KNOW that it is a V30 or "fig" it? A V30 is similar to an 8086, not 8088 (that would be the V20) > no idea if its still in workin cond. i tried checkin, > the powersupply's alright, and the power reaches the > processor and the other chips. the bios chip is on > board (andi doubt that's the trouble maker) > can somebody tellme where ican find some info on > manual bootstrapping it. > the monoc monitor that came with it does not work, so > how do i proceed. i hv my hols now and would like to > work on it. > tu It would be a bit difficult to describe how to proceed, unless/until you get some information about the computer. So far, the only identification has been "an old comp", "NECV30", and that the "monoc monitor" does not work. IF you know that it has PC compatible video hardware, then you could try another monitor, or use a scope to check for video output. But, if it IS a V30, then it prob'ly has many other things different from an ordinary PC, so it would not be a good idea to swap monitor until you confirm compatability. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 22 17:06:57 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: Anybody here work on HP 7905/7920 disk drives? In-Reply-To: <200407222058.NAA17692@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040722180657.008b3100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Soap and water usually cleans up the black foam. I'm not sure about this green stuff. The black stuff practically dissolves in water. OH HELL! I'll go find out. Yeap. Water took MOST of it right off. I've cleaned up everything and it's drying now. I'll try to take some pictures tomorrow. Joe At 01:58 PM 7/22/04 -0700, you wrote: >Hi > What is the best way to clean this self-destructing foam. >I've tried a couple of things without luck. >Dwight > > >>From: "Joe R." >> >>At 11:57 AM 7/22/04 -0500, you wrote: >>>I'd be quite interested in these, as I'm sure some other people would be >>>too. Any chance we could get pictures? >> >> They wouldn't do any good. There's pieces of green foam stuck all over >>the parts. >> >> Joe >> >> >>> >>>Jay >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Joe R." >>>To: >>>Cc: >>>Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 10:39 AM >>>Subject: Anybody here work on HP 7905/7920 disk drives? >>> >>> >>>> Went scrounging yesterday and found a small plastic box of what looks >>>> like HP disk drive test/alignment accessories. Parts include 07905-60049, >>>> 07905-60039, 5061-1386, 07920-60030 and 07920-62421. Anybody need this >>>> stuff? The box is filled with that old self-disintegrating foam so the >>>> stuff will need to be cleaned up but it looks like it's in very good >>>> condition (the box is in rough shape). >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>> >>> >> > > > From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Jul 22 17:36:26 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: Anybody here work on HP 7905/7920 disk drives? Message-ID: <200407222236.PAA17811@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Joe Water doesn't even touch the goop I'm seeing. :( Dwight >From: "Joe R." > > Soap and water usually cleans up the black foam. I'm not sure about this >green stuff. The black stuff practically dissolves in water. > > OH HELL! I'll go find out. Yeap. Water took MOST of it right off. I've >cleaned up everything and it's drying now. I'll try to take some pictures >tomorrow. > > Joe > >At 01:58 PM 7/22/04 -0700, you wrote: >>Hi >> What is the best way to clean this self-destructing foam. >>I've tried a couple of things without luck. >>Dwight >> >> >>>From: "Joe R." >>> >>>At 11:57 AM 7/22/04 -0500, you wrote: >>>>I'd be quite interested in these, as I'm sure some other people would be >>>>too. Any chance we could get pictures? >>> >>> They wouldn't do any good. There's pieces of green foam stuck all over >>>the parts. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> >>>> >>>>Jay >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Joe R." >>>>To: >>>>Cc: >>>>Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 10:39 AM >>>>Subject: Anybody here work on HP 7905/7920 disk drives? >>>> >>>> >>>>> Went scrounging yesterday and found a small plastic box of what looks >>>>> like HP disk drive test/alignment accessories. Parts include 07905-60049, >>>>> 07905-60039, 5061-1386, 07920-60030 and 07920-62421. Anybody need this >>>>> stuff? The box is filled with that old self-disintegrating foam so the >>>>> stuff will need to be cleaned up but it looks like it's in very good >>>>> condition (the box is in rough shape). >>>>> >>>>> Joe >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jul 22 17:42:25 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: Commodore Pet ROM trouble... EPROM Substitutes... In-Reply-To: Philip Pemberton "Re: Commodore Pet ROM trouble... EPROM Substitutes..." (Jul 22, 21:17) References: <200407221109.i6MB9kpH020285@everymail-A16-C02.everymail.net> <10407221840.ZM22794@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3c38a6d24c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <10407222342.ZM23039@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 22, 21:17, Philip Pemberton wrote: > In message <10407221840.ZM22794@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On Jul 22, 13:09, wolfgang@eichberger.org wrote: > > That should certainly work for reading. > > > Not if those pin names are correct. !G is Output Gate, i.e. !OE. I'd connect > all the pins straight through, except 18, 20 and 21. > > 2532 socket 2732 ROM > 18 A11 21 A11 > 21 VPP no-connect > 20 !E (PD/PGM) 18 !E > 14 Vss 14 and 20 (Vss and !G respectively) > Anything else is connected straight through > > I *think* that'll work. The only difference is that this grounds the 2732's > !G (Output Enable) pin instead of rigging it high (Vpp is usually connected > to +5V for EPROMs that are wired for reading only). Yep, well spotted. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From RMaxwell at atlantissi.com Thu Jul 22 17:55:56 2004 From: RMaxwell at atlantissi.com (RMaxwell@atlantissi.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: Commodore Pet ROM trouble... EPROM Substitutes... Message-ID: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F128D7@INETMAIL> Oops. Error! Correction: The 2532 Vpp is always +5V when reading, and would keep 2732 outputs always OFF. The 2532 has just one enable pin, while the 2732 has two. Better to tie 2732-20 to ***2532-20*** (or to GND - outputs would be always enabled when the chip is selected). Sorry 'bout that. Best of luck, Bob From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 22 18:05:45 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: Anybody here work on HP 7905/7920 disk drives? In-Reply-To: <200407222236.PAA17811@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040722190545.00909290@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:36 PM 7/22/04 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Joe > Water doesn't even touch the goop I'm seeing. :( Water usually takes off almost all of the stuff that I've seen. It does leave a speckled "crust" where the stuff has contacted metal. The crust isn't thick. It looks sort of like you sprinked it with pepper. On these I scapped the crust off with a knife blade. It came off easily but it ate through the gold on the contacts and left spots of bare copper. I've been told that the stuff gives off hydrofloric acid with it decomposes. That stuff will eat through anything, including glass and gold. FWIW I've had to clean a lot of the black stuff old of old HP test equipment accessory boxs and I don't think I've ever found any that water didn't take out. Once water hits it the stuff just seems to turn into a grainy powder. This isn't the same as the stuff that ICs used to be stored in. That stuff also turns to goo but once it does I've never been able to salvage an IC from it. It eats the legs off the ICs or weakens them so much that you can't insert it into a socket without the legs breaking off. I've had so much trouble with that stuff that when I find it I just throw it all away and don't even try to salvage the parts. Joe >Dwight > > >>From: "Joe R." >> >> Soap and water usually cleans up the black foam. I'm not sure about this >>green stuff. The black stuff practically dissolves in water. >> >> OH HELL! I'll go find out. Yeap. Water took MOST of it right off. I've >>cleaned up everything and it's drying now. I'll try to take some pictures >>tomorrow. >> >> Joe >> >>At 01:58 PM 7/22/04 -0700, you wrote: >>>Hi >>> What is the best way to clean this self-destructing foam. >>>I've tried a couple of things without luck. >>>Dwight >>> >>> >>>>From: "Joe R." >>>> >>>>At 11:57 AM 7/22/04 -0500, you wrote: >>>>>I'd be quite interested in these, as I'm sure some other people would be >>>>>too. Any chance we could get pictures? >>>> >>>> They wouldn't do any good. There's pieces of green foam stuck all over >>>>the parts. >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Jay >>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: "Joe R." >>>>>To: >>>>>Cc: >>>>>Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 10:39 AM >>>>>Subject: Anybody here work on HP 7905/7920 disk drives? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Went scrounging yesterday and found a small plastic box of what looks >>>>>> like HP disk drive test/alignment accessories. Parts include 07905-60049, >>>>>> 07905-60039, 5061-1386, 07920-60030 and 07920-62421. Anybody need this >>>>>> stuff? The box is filled with that old self-disintegrating foam so the >>>>>> stuff will need to be cleaned up but it looks like it's in very good >>>>>> condition (the box is in rough shape). >>>>>> >>>>>> Joe >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 22 17:35:18 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: Anyone have/know of Persci drives, parts In-Reply-To: <200407121836.i6CIaWlp008007@ms-smtp-02-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> from "Barry Watzman" at Jul 12, 4 02:36:33 pm Message-ID: > > I need some Persci 8" drives (model 270 or 277) and/or parts to repair them > for some systems. The part that I need most is the very large circuit board > on the right side of the drive. Anyone know of a source? [I'm sure that Are you actually missing this board? If not, then surely the existing one can be repaired to component level -- AFAIK the only custom part is an 8048 microcontroller, which presumably could be copied from one in a good drive (I don;t think the 8048 has any security features). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 22 17:38:48 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi Monitor In-Reply-To: <20040714231936.GB21715@slitesys.demon.co.uk> from "Alistair MacDonald" at Jul 15, 4 00:19:37 am Message-ID: > > On Wed, Jul 14, 2004 at 11:38:45PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > Hello: > > > I need some advise, if someone can please help me out regarding > > > identifying what this monitor is for. I have been given an older 20' > > > Mitsubishi monitor with two 15 pin connectors on the back (signal A, Signal > > > B) along with 5 of the round connectors with the two pins on each. Each > > > > Are you sure it's 2 pins? These sound like BNC [1] connectors which have > > one central pin and the shield. Some sockets have a forked contact for > > the centre connection which may look like 2 pins, though. > > Something wrong with the quoting there Tony ... Why? The lines starting with 3 greater-thans are the original message, 2 greater-thans are my reply to it, 1 greater than is your reply to that, no greater-thans is my current message. Looks OK to me. > Anyway, There are the two locking "pins" on the sides of BNC > connectors. Perhaps these are what are being mentioned. Yes, another follow-up message indicated this was the case. -tony From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 22 18:13:43 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: OT: Bell&Howell TSC-200 System Calibrator???? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040722191343.007939a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found one of these a couple of days ago. Does anyone here know anything about them? I'm trying to figure out what some of the pushbuttons do. Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 22 17:41:24 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: Ferro-resonant xformer conversion? In-Reply-To: <40F6BEA4.4050601@hp.com> from "Wai-Sun Chia" at Jul 16, 4 01:28:04 am Message-ID: > > Assuming you have a ferro-resonant transformer targetted for 60Hz > operation and you want to convert it into 50Hz (assuming current load is > the same).. > > Question: > - if one just maintains the RC value, the tank would still resonate and Surely it's the LC (Inductance, not resistance) that needs to be maintained. Now, resonat frequency goes as 1/sqrt(LC), so if you drop the frequency, you need to either increase L or increase C. The former can be done by adding turns to the winding (maybe there are taps for this, there are in the PSU of my Diablo series 30 drives). > perform its function of maintaining load and line regulation? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 22 17:46:12 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: Dragon 64 fixing... In-Reply-To: <40FEF41E.8030804@soulwax.co.uk> from "Dennis Smith" at Jul 21, 4 11:54:22 pm Message-ID: > i hear this is what made the old encryption / decryption method work for > analogue SKY boxes....... one chip was in the card and the other 2 was > in the box - apparently the same 3 chips as in the dragon (don't ask me > how though - i don't know- i've never understood) Sounds very odd to me. When I said there were 3 main chips in Dragon, well yes, there are, but there's also RAM (8 chips), ROM, I/O, etc. You can't do a lot with just the 3 central chips. And I don't see how they could be used for video decryption. -tony From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Jul 22 18:43:09 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: CDC 9762 vs. RM02/03? In-Reply-To: <40F3AC25.7080303@hp.com> References: <000101c467ae$6a4650a0$707ba8c0@xpdesk> <40F3AC25.7080303@hp.com> Message-ID: <20040722234309.GA16290@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Jul 13, 2004 at 05:32:21PM +0800, Wai-Sun Chia wrote: > I have some conflicting info here. On one hand the literature says that > DEC rebadged the CDC9762 as RM02 and RM03s... > > OTOH, the CDC has a SMD interface yet the RM02/03 has a MASSBUS interface. > > Furthermore, the CDC is listed to be at 80MB, yet the RM02/03 apparently > has 67MB only. > > So, which is true? I'm confused. It's all true. A CDC 9762 _is_ an SMD drive. DEC made some changes to the cards inside the 9762, put it on a DEC pedestal and filled the bottom with a couple of cubic feet of DEC electronics. Working for a small 3rd-party support company years ago (c. 1988), I tried to "restore" an RM02 back into an SMD device (since my boss had Unibus SMD controllers and no MASSBUS machines), but we eventually gave up. It's not as simple as unplugging the equipment in the bottom of the RM02/RM03 and plugging the 62 pin/26 pin cables into a real SMD controller. The capacities you list are also correct - the original 9762 gives you 80MB per pack, and the same pack in a DEC RM02/RM03 gives 67MB. I do not happen to know if it's just a difference in the number of reserved tracks for spares, or if there is an low-level format difference. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 22-Jul-2004 23:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -95 F (-70.5 C) Windchill -135.4 F (-93 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9.6 kts Grid 034 Barometer 664.5 mb (11217 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Jul 22 18:56:08 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: Commodore Pet ROM trouble... EPROM Substitutes... In-Reply-To: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F128D6@INETMAIL> References: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F128D6@INETMAIL> Message-ID: In message <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F128D6@INETMAIL> RMaxwell@atlantissi.com wrote: > I've had better luck finding Hitachi's HN462532G version here... in Canada. > That may be worth checking for. I've got four known-good spare TMS2532s left, but I don't really want to part with them (I keep them as spares for other machines). If you find anywhere that's selling HN462532Gs, I'll take a few. I'm not sure if I've mentioned this before, but if anyone on cctalk/cctech wants any EPROMs programming, I'll do it for cost-of-postage only, as long as new EPROMs are provided. I've got a PREPROM-02aLV from . If it's on the device support list and doesn't need an adapter, I can program the chip. > 2732 and 2532 program at +25V, 2732A programs at +21V. +25V is fatal to > 2732A. Don't ask me how I know that. Painful experience? Another one - EPROMs that have been installed in the socket backwards in a device that posesses a very big PSU tend to glow white-hot then die. > Impossible? Nothing's impossible. Messy and difficult, maybe. "Difficult we can do. Impossible might take a bit longer." > At VCF East 2.0 I brought along an EPROM programmer and some blank 2532s... Got any spares left? Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... I idiot-proof my programs, but then along comes a bigger idiot. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Jul 22 18:58:19 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: Early timesharing (TYMSHARE) In-Reply-To: <003f01c47011$e317a8b0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <003f01c47011$e317a8b0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <20040722235819.GD16290@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 12:32:39PM -0500, Jay West wrote: > Oh yeah, awesome idea! I'm a private pilot, and I know Bob Shannon and Megan > Gentry are... so that covers piloting on the east coast and central section. > West coast classiccmp pilots here? I'm not West Coast; I'm in Ohio and/or Wisconsin. I'm even current (I'll have about 6 weeks after I get home to schedule my next BFR). I have a complex endorsement, but not multi-engine. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 22-Jul-2004 23:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -94.7 F (-70.4 C) Windchill -133.4 F (-91.90 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8.69 kts Grid 023 Barometer 664.6 mb (11212. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Jul 22 19:02:42 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: Early timesharing (TYMSHARE) In-Reply-To: <40FFFD31.4030601@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <003f01c47011$e317a8b0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <40FFFD31.4030601@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20040723000242.GE16290@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 11:45:21AM -0600, ben franchuk wrote: > But the real question is * DO you do air drops? * If you do, I'm easy to find... go South until it turns North... open the door and chuck the stuff out. :-) Seriously, though, until 1995, they used to have a mid-winter air-drop to McMurdo and Pole. They stopped because it was getting too expensive. Since then, there has been at least one mid-winter drop at Pole for medical reasons. They launch from N.Z. in a C-141 with a mid-air refuel (approx 13 hour round-trip plus loitering time). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 22-Jul-2004 23:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -94.7 F (-70.4 C) Windchill -133.4 F (-91.90 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8.69 kts Grid 023 Barometer 664.6 mb (11212. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Jul 22 19:03:33 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: Airplane (was Early Timeshare) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040723000333.GF16290@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 01:31:10PM -0500, JP Hindin wrote: > > My father owns an English light transport aircraft, carries up to twelve > passengers - when the seats are in. > (http://www.kiwigeek.com/hjp/memoirs/devon.jpg - 1950 DeHavilland Devon, > ex RNZAF) > > > Doesn't help any people in the US though, since the aircraft is based in > New Zealand. Where in N.Z? I'll be there in November. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 22-Jul-2004 24:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -94.5 F (-70.4 C) Windchill -131.3 F (-90.8 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 7.8 kts Grid 032 Barometer 664.7 mb (11208. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Jul 22 19:28:26 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: OT: Bell&Howell TSC-200 System Calibrator???? Message-ID: In a message dated 7/22/2004 7:20:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rigdonj@cfl.rr.com writes: I found one of these a couple of days ago. Does anyone here know anything about them? I'm trying to figure out what some of the pushbuttons do. I work for the company, but all info on older stuff cannot be found. -- I am not willing to give up my liberties for the appearance of 'security' From grooveomatic at gmail.com Thu Jul 22 20:23:14 2004 From: grooveomatic at gmail.com (Andrew Berg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: Xerox Sigma VII --- big IRON In-Reply-To: <40FFE92E.58833D4F@ccp.com> References: <40FFE92E.58833D4F@ccp.com> Message-ID: Kindly Gary, I'm not positive that this is the right one, but http://asuwlink.uwyo.edu/~jimkirk/sigma7.gif claims to be a Sigma VII. HTH! :) Andy On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 11:19:58 -0500, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > Just reminiscing over my first encounter with computers back in 1970 > ----- > > It was a Xerox Sigma VII in the basement of the Montana State *Snip* From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 22 20:29:58 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: OT: Bell&Howell TSC-200 System Calibrator???? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040722212958.009244c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:28 PM 7/22/04 -0400, SuperDave wrote: >In a message dated 7/22/2004 7:20:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >rigdonj@cfl.rr.com writes: > I found one of these a couple of days ago. Does anyone here know anything >about them? I'm trying to figure out what some of the pushbuttons do. >I work for the company, but all info on older stuff cannot be found. Wonderfull! :-( Do you know if B&H built professional grade test equipment? This looks far too complex inside to be for a hobbiest. BTW these don't seem to be too rare. I searched the net and found several for sale but no one has any info on them. BTW II. This came from Lockheed Space Operations at Kennedy Space Center so they must have thought it was pretty good quality. I checked the timing of the square and sine wave generators in it against a HP counter that also came from KSC and was recently calibrated and they agree exactly. The HP counter is a HP model 5245 with Nixie tubes. The date code on it says that it was built in the 44th week of 1969. It was still being used at KSC till April 2003 when one Nixie tube died and the retired it. Hard to believe that it's over 33 years old! Joe From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jul 22 20:32:39 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: Commodore 1541 disk drives for sale In-Reply-To: <200407220806230546.5768ED1A@smtp.comcast.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Joe Stevenson wrote: > Hi guys, > > I bought a lot with a bunch of Commodore stuff, and it included a bunch of 1541 drives. I only need 1 or 2, so I looking to sell off the rest. I sold one on eBay for $20, so I figure that is a decent asking price. > > $20 each + shipping. Tested working and cleaned up I presume? Otherwise that is exactly an eBay price (i.e. too high). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jul 22 21:21:13 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: are you still interested in buying an osborne 1 computer? In-Reply-To: <200407191859.i6JIxlbY045462@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jul 2004, Davi Napoleon wrote: > And how much are you offering to pay? One Million Dollars! But only if it contains a cashier's check for TWO million dollars inside. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From melamy at earthlink.net Thu Jul 22 21:29:28 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: MDS series II again In-Reply-To: <20040722190818.5BAD23C4B@spies.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040722222731.00bba2b0@mail.earthlink.net> definitely series II, integrated monitor, single drive, and card cage from front. I worked on both the mds-800 and the series II. The integrated approach was handy. I have a working card set for a series II including the dd two board bit slice controller card. Just trying to bring a system to wkring again. best regards, Steve Thatcher At 12:08 PM 07/22/2004 -0700, you wrote: >I have been thinking >about the series II schematics you have. Any chance of sending them to me >(on me of course), so I can get them down to Kinkos to copy? > >-- > >Are you looking for Intellec Series 2? Monitor on top, boards load from >the front? From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu Jul 22 21:44:30 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: are you still interested in buying an osborne 1 computer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sellam Ismail wrote: >>> One Million Dollars! But only if it contains a cashier's >>> check for TWO million dollars inside. Presumabley, "vintage" cashier's checks are not accepted..... From chd_1 at nktelco.net Thu Jul 22 21:44:30 2004 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: DEC AXV11 A/D Board Connector Pinout Wanted In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.0.20040713194627.01af5408@pop.starpower.net> References: <6.0.1.1.0.20040713194627.01af5408@pop.starpower.net> Message-ID: <41007B8E.5040301@nktelco.net> Douglas Taylor wrote: > As you can tell from the heading I have one of these boards. In the > DEC Micronotes there are some simple programs that show you how to > acquire data with it, however I don't know how you connect the board > to outside sources for sampling,etc. Anyone have info? I think I saw > something in the Vax 4000/200 manuals that talked about a cabinet kit > for this board - a UDIP - does this ring any bells? > > Doug > > The Micro PDP Handbook says that the connector is a 26 pin header. From the layout it must be an 8 channel differential A/D or a 16 channel single ended A/D. pin 1 ch0 2 ch8 or return 0 3 ch1 4 ch9 or return 1 5 ch2 6 ch10 or return 2 7 ch3 8 ch11 or return 3 9 ch4 10 ch12 or return 4 11 ch5 12 ch13 or return 5 13 ch6 14 ch14 or return 6 15 ch7 16 ch15 or return 7 17 analog ground 18 AMP (I don't know what that means) 19 external trigger in 20 digital ground 21 real time clock in 22 digital ground 23 DAC A return 24 DAC A out 25 DAC B return 26 DAC B out From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jul 22 21:45:17 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: Disk Capacity.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > It is just an "interesting" comparision. A wall of RP06's is less than 0.5% > the capacity of a single IDE/ATA hard drive. You can now create tera-byre > arrays in a single 4u rack slot. If you are going to compare yesterdays disk's with today's, you should probably use IBM DASDs rather than the RP06. For many years IBM was the big cheese in the disk world. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jul 22 22:04:24 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: IBM RISC System/6000 58H available Message-ID: I've got an IBM RISC System/6000 model 58H available for sale. According to the spec sheet on this page: http://www.s6000.com/modelpr.html ...it's a 55Mhz Power2 system with 32K I cache and 256K D cache (no, I don't know what any of this means). I don't want much for it. I'll be willing to ship it if you really want it that bad (it's not heavy but it is large). Make a reasonable offer and it's yours. Local pickup will get preference. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jul 22 22:09:39 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: was: Early timesharing now: pilotage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, John Lawson wrote: > PPMEL/IFR here - hmmm - I wonder if that'd require a Transport rating...? > > Dang - we could all go in Cahoots and buy a DC-3 to haul our Classic > Stuff in... ;} > > Cheers > > John > > "Out of the blue of the Western Sky...." Vintage Airways has a nice ring to it :) This might actually be a useful service. Do you realize how many arcade games and, increasingly, large computer systems are being hauled around the country at any given moment? It's a lot. A reasonable priced air freight service *mught* be successful, but there is a lot of ground-based competition. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From joe at barrera.org Thu Jul 22 22:22:21 2004 From: joe at barrera.org (Joseph S. Barrera III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: are you still interested in buying an osborne 1 computer? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4100846D.3050403@barrera.org> If anyone has an Osborne 0, please contact me directly. Thanks. - Joe From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Jul 22 22:41:41 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: are you still interested in buying an osborne 1 computer? In-Reply-To: <4100846D.3050403@barrera.org> from "Joseph S. Barrera III" at "Jul 22, 4 08:22:21 pm" Message-ID: <200407230341.UAA15372@floodgap.com> > If anyone has an Osborne 0, please contact me directly. Piffle. I'm holding out for the Osborne -1, and the very rare but allegedly small production run Osborne (a+bi) where a = RAM size and b = clock speed. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Remember, kids: for great justice take off every zig! ---------------------- From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Jul 22 22:30:07 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: OT: Bell&Howell TSC-200 System Calibrator???? Message-ID: <15b.3a952bb7.2e31e03f@aol.com> At 08:28 PM 7/22/04 -0400, SuperDave wrote: >In a message dated 7/22/2004 7:20:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >rigdonj@cfl.rr.com writes: > I found one of these a couple of days ago. Does anyone here know anything >about them? I'm trying to figure out what some of the pushbuttons do. >I work for the company, but all info on older stuff cannot be found. : Wonderfull! :-( Do you know if B&H built professional grade test :equipment? This looks far too complex inside to be for a hobbiest. BTW :these don't seem to be too rare. I searched the net and found several for :sale but no one has any info on them. We're actually Bowe Bell and Howell, because of Bowe Systec AG merger. It seems that anything that's not document printing and mail inserting and handling (which is what BBH is known for) is all but forgotten about. I'll have to ask my boss about the old skool days. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jul 22 23:41:46 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: IBM RISC System/6000 58H available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I've got an IBM RISC System/6000 model 58H available for sale. According > to the spec sheet on this page: > > http://www.s6000.com/modelpr.html > > ...it's a 55Mhz Power2 system with 32K I cache and 256K D cache (no, I > don't know what any of this means). > > I don't want much for it. I'll be willing to ship it if you really want > it that bad (it's not heavy but it is large). > > Make a reasonable offer and it's yours. Local pickup will get > preference. Oh, and I'll test if it you're seriously interested... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bob at jfcl.com Fri Jul 23 00:24:42 2004 From: bob at jfcl.com (Robert Armstrong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: Booting real RT11 on a Heath H-11 Message-ID: <000a01c47075$5f0e8c50$ba02010a@LIFEBOOK> I have a Heath H11A (LSI-11/2 CPU!) with the Heath WH-27 floppy diskette drives. It boots and runs HT11 (Heath's crippled version of RT11) just fine, but when I try to boot a real RT-11 v5 RX01 diskette it just halts. I thought that the WH-27 was RX01 compatible. Am I wrong, or is there some trick that Heath put in (maybe in the WH-27 boot ROMs?) to keep it from working? Thanks much, Bob Armstrong From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Jul 22 23:46:51 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: was: Early timesharing now: pilotage References: Message-ID: <000201c4707a$a0f15cb0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> actually give the plane to Al and he can go around and scan manuals and have tape drives built in to read every format tape known to man mounted in racks in the plane... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 8:09 PM Subject: Re: was: Early timesharing now: pilotage > On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, John Lawson wrote: > > > PPMEL/IFR here - hmmm - I wonder if that'd require a Transport rating...? > > > > Dang - we could all go in Cahoots and buy a DC-3 to haul our Classic > > Stuff in... ;} > > > > Cheers > > > > John > > > > "Out of the blue of the Western Sky...." > > Vintage Airways has a nice ring to it :) > > This might actually be a useful service. Do you realize how many arcade > games and, increasingly, large computer systems are being hauled around > the country at any given moment? It's a lot. A reasonable priced air > freight service *mught* be successful, but there is a lot of ground-based > competition. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri Jul 23 03:14:07 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: Early timesharing (TYMSHARE) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 23 Jul 2004 00:02:42 -0000." <20040723000242.GE16290@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <200407230814.JAA26946@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Ethan Dicks said: > If you do, I'm easy to find... go South until it turns North... open the door > and chuck the stuff out. :-) I was looking at photos of that place in Short Wave Magazine recently, snowed in equipment, C130 stuck in a ravine etc. Not my idea of fun - way too cold for me :-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jul 23 04:42:56 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: are you still interested in buying an osborne 1 computer? In-Reply-To: <4100846D.3050403@barrera.org> References: <4100846D.3050403@barrera.org> Message-ID: <1090575776.31957.20.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-07-23 at 03:22, Joseph S. Barrera III wrote: > If anyone has an Osborne 0, please contact me directly. > Thanks. I have 0 Osbornes, if that's the same thing... :-) J. From hansp at citem.org Fri Jul 23 05:42:52 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:26 2005 Subject: was: Early timesharing now: pilotage In-Reply-To: <000201c4707a$a0f15cb0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> References: <000201c4707a$a0f15cb0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: <4100EBAC.1020809@citem.org> ed sharpe wrote: > actually give the plane to Al and he can go around and scan manuals and > have tape drives built in to read every format tape known to man mounted in > racks in the plane... And provide the best delivery service for the complete data set ;-) -- HansP From ghldbrd at ccp.com Fri Jul 23 06:10:53 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Xerox Sigma VII --- big IRON References: <40FFE92E.58833D4F@ccp.com> Message-ID: <4100F23D.7DF6FEDE@ccp.com> Andrew Berg wrote: not positive that this is the right one, but > http://asuwlink.uwyo.edu/~jimkirk/sigma7.gif claims to be a Sigma VII. > Andy Sure looks like it -- I never got close up to it as it was SACRED, but I do remember seeing it through the windows. To err is human, to really foul things up required a Sigma 7 and a hacked operating system LOLOL. I still hate it with a passion. Tnx for the link. Gary From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Jul 23 10:48:56 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 Message-ID: There is a B1955 mainframe system on Ebay right now, with just about a day left: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5109222569 This is a circa 1980 system - it is sort of large. It looks complete, but it really is hard to tell. I really don't think I can go save* this beast, so I am passing this on. Anyone in the South (Louisiana, I think) interested? Old B machines are very rare, and very much worth saving (it has an interesting architecture, too!). Only if all of the moons line up will I bid on this, so if someone else is pretty sure they will move on it, please let me know. I would rather have a coordinated effort here. *The high bidder (at one buck) is a scrapper - check out the auctions he has won inthe past. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aek at spies.com Fri Jul 23 11:16:00 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 Message-ID: <20040723161600.51BC73CF9@spies.com> PLEASE! save this from the scrapper! The Computer History Mueseum has one of these and one of the stops I made last month was to one of the last field service guys who maintained those systems and picked up all of the documentation, field diags, and a complete set of cards that he still had left. I'm hoping Mike (corestore) will be interested but it is a BIG system, as you can tell from the pics. --- There is a B1955 mainframe system on Ebay right now, with just about a day left: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5109222569 From aek at spies.com Fri Jul 23 11:21:14 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 Message-ID: <20040723162114.5A7343CF6@spies.com> If people are curious about the details, I've been scanning a LOT of 19xx material lately. The 1955 was the last of the 1000 series to have a control panel with lights and switches, too (it is under the right front door in the main cpu cabinet) and has the classic panel layout of the earier models which were visible on the front. d From spedraja at ono.com Fri Jul 23 11:26:09 2004 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 References: Message-ID: <00ec01c470d1$c334a6e0$0f02a8c0@WorkGroup> I was tracking it during last days, hoping that someone of the list mention it. Yes, it appears to be complete. Sellam, Are you here ;-) ? Sergio ----- Original Message ----- From: William Donzelli To: Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 5:48 PM Subject: Burroughs B1955 > There is a B1955 mainframe system on Ebay right now, with just about a day > left: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5109222569 > > This is a circa 1980 system - it is sort of large. It looks complete, but > it really is hard to tell. > > I really don't think I can go save* this beast, so I am passing this on. > Anyone in the South (Louisiana, I think) interested? Old B machines are > very rare, and very much worth saving (it has an interesting architecture, > too!). > > Only if all of the moons line up will I bid on this, so if someone else is > pretty sure they will move on it, please let me know. I would rather have > a coordinated effort here. > > *The high bidder (at one buck) is a scrapper - check out the auctions he > has won inthe past. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > From spedraja at ono.com Fri Jul 23 11:28:45 2004 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 References: <20040723161600.51BC73CF9@spies.com> Message-ID: <00f601c470d2$20273520$0f02a8c0@WorkGroup> Perhaps I could bid for the system, but any other person must get it. I live in Spain. If someone authorized by me can go (in my name) and later refunds me the money I have no problem to try it. CHeers Sergio ----- Original Message ----- From: Al Kossow To: Cc: Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 6:16 PM Subject: Re: Burroughs B1955 > > PLEASE! save this from the scrapper! > > The Computer History Mueseum has one of these and one of the stops I made last > month was to one of the last field service guys who maintained those systems > and picked up all of the documentation, field diags, and a complete set of > cards that he still had left. I'm hoping Mike (corestore) will be interested > but it is a BIG system, as you can tell from the pics. > --- > > There is a B1955 mainframe system on Ebay right now, with just about a day > left: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5109222569 > From hansp at citem.org Fri Jul 23 11:34:46 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 In-Reply-To: <20040723162114.5A7343CF6@spies.com> References: <20040723162114.5A7343CF6@spies.com> Message-ID: <41013E26.3000605@citem.org> Al Kossow wrote: > If people are curious about the details, I've been scanning a LOT > of 19xx material lately. The 1955 was the last of the 1000 series > to have a control panel with lights and switches, too (it is under > the right front door in the main cpu cabinet) and has the classic > panel layout of the earier models which were visible on the front. I would definitely second any attempt to save this system. The 1900 had a quite unique architecture with bit addressable main memory and what could be construed as dynamic microcode. Definitely an interesting machine. An anecdote : I used to work for Burroughs doing software support for the B1900 series in Europe. One day at a Burroughs office in Brussels, one of the center staff complained to me that their B1900 would occasionally halt requiring a reboot. Halts were programmed and the reason was displayed on the console panel as a pattern of lights. I ask him what the halt code was. His reply "Oh some of the lights are on, and some are off" Needless to say I was not motivated to find out what their problem was. I am in touch with some of my ex-colleagues in Belgium where I worked and will see if they have any docs which might be helpful. -- HansP From jbmcb at hotmail.com Fri Jul 23 11:38:11 2004 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 References: Message-ID: There was one at the Detroit Garage Sale last summer. It is a HUGE system, I belive there were two CPU cabinets, a couple tape cabinets, disk cabinets and an AC power distribution cab. It may have been a different model but it was the same vintage. I've got some 5.25" floppies from it if anyone cares or wants copies, I think it's most of the OS. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Donzelli" To: Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:48 AM Subject: Burroughs B1955 > There is a B1955 mainframe system on Ebay right now, with just about a day > left: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5109222569 > > This is a circa 1980 system - it is sort of large. It looks complete, but > it really is hard to tell. > > I really don't think I can go save* this beast, so I am passing this on. > Anyone in the South (Louisiana, I think) interested? Old B machines are > very rare, and very much worth saving (it has an interesting architecture, > too!). > > Only if all of the moons line up will I bid on this, so if someone else is > pretty sure they will move on it, please let me know. I would rather have > a coordinated effort here. > > *The high bidder (at one buck) is a scrapper - check out the auctions he > has won inthe past. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > > From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Jul 23 11:45:32 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: almost.... Message-ID: Hiyall, Hmm, this is almost on-topic here, and contains a fair bit of electronics and puter stuff. I wonder whether they'll include the engineerings drawings. http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2256298346&category=28193# And, just for the record: yes, I am bidding, and no, not affliated. --fred From wacarder at usit.net Fri Jul 23 12:11:36 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: almost.... References: Message-ID: <001001c470d8$1d3e5e50$99100f14@mcothran1> Fred, There is also a KITT at the Volo Auto Museum at Volo, Illinois, about 45 miles NW of Chicago. I drove to Chicago from South Carolina and bought a restored 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass from them a year ago and toured their museum. Quite interesting. Ashley Their site is http://www.volocars.com Their Hollywood car page is http://www.volocars.com/attractions-hollywood.html Here's a blurb about KITT from their site: ==================================== K.I.T.T. K.I.T.T. is the #1 car in TV history. What could be cooler than a car that could, among other things, talk, think, express its opinions, sense danger, analyze vital signs. The K.I.T.T. on display at the Volo Auto Museum is an original survivor from the "Knight Rider" series. Several K.I.T.T.s were destroyed during the production of Knight Rider. Usually one big jump was done a week and 2-3 smaller jumps were also performed in that same week before the car was wrecked. Actual cars were used for the show's stunt jumps until the last year when the stunts became too dangerous to have humans carry them out. So in the place of the cars, miniatures of K.I.T.T. were used instead. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 12:45 PM Subject: almost.... > Hiyall, > > Hmm, this is almost on-topic here, and contains a fair bit > of electronics and puter stuff. I wonder whether they'll > include the engineerings drawings. > > http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2256298 346&category=28193# > > And, just for the record: yes, I am bidding, and no, not affliated. > > --fred > From dvcorbin at optonline.net Fri Jul 23 12:24:02 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: almost.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Of course the word "functional" is VERY subjective.... >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred N. >>> van Kempen >>> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 12:46 PM >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: almost.... >>> >>> Hiyall, >>> >>> Hmm, this is almost on-topic here, and contains a fair bit >>> of electronics and puter stuff. I wonder whether they'll >>> include the engineerings drawings. >>> >>> http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&r d=1&item=2256298346&category=28193# >>> >>> And, just for the record: yes, I am bidding, and no, not affliated. >>> >>> --fred >>> From kth at srv.net Fri Jul 23 12:46:10 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: are you still interested in buying an osborne 1 computer? In-Reply-To: <200407230341.UAA15372@floodgap.com> References: <200407230341.UAA15372@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <41014EE2.202@srv.net> Cameron Kaiser wrote: >>If anyone has an Osborne 0, please contact me directly. >> >> > >Piffle. I'm holding out for the Osborne -1, and the very rare but allegedly >small production run Osborne (a+bi) where a = RAM size and b = clock speed. > > > I want one of those p-p-p-powerbooks. http://www.p-p-p-powerbook.com/ From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Jul 23 12:37:19 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: printing pdf manuals Message-ID: <015701c470db$b4377aa0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I recently got an upgrade for my Laserjet 4+ printer. It included a duplexer, 64mb ram upgrade, envelope feeder, and extended paper tray. I've printed off a few manuals on 3 hole punched paper from Al's bitsavers site and I've been really happy with the setup & results. However I have a question perhaps some here can answer... If one has a separate paper tray on their printer for, say... 11x17 (schematics), will adobe pdf reader software print all the pages on regular paper, and as it's going along, notice which pages in the PDF file are bigger (11x17, or legal, etc.) and print those pages "in-line" from the other paper tray? My thought is... after printing, I could take the stack of printout and fold in the long schematic pages before dropping it in a binder. I have no idea if adobe acrobat reader does this "sensing of paper size on each page" or not. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Lots of the manuals I want to print have fold-out schematics pages sprinkled throughout normal 8x11. If this cant be done, I was thinking I could print all pages except the big size ones (by looking at each page :\), then print those separately but thats a pain and I don't know if I can say to exclude certain pages. Thanks for any thoughts/advice! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Jul 23 12:59:23 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: printing pdf manuals References: <015701c470db$b4377aa0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <16641.20987.298271.209566@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jay" == Jay West writes: Jay> I recently got an upgrade for my Laserjet 4+ printer. It Jay> included a duplexer, 64mb ram upgrade, envelope feeder, and Jay> extended paper tray. I've printed off a few manuals on 3 hole Jay> punched paper from Al's bitsavers site and I've been really Jay> happy with the setup & results. However I have a question Jay> perhaps some here can answer... Jay> If one has a separate paper tray on their printer for, Jay> say... 11x17 (schematics), will adobe pdf reader software print Jay> all the pages on regular paper, and as it's going along, notice Jay> which pages in the PDF file are bigger (11x17, or legal, etc.) Jay> and print those pages "in-line" from the other paper tray? Jay> My thought is... after printing, I could take the stack of Jay> printout and fold in the long schematic pages before dropping it Jay> in a binder. Jay> I have no idea if adobe acrobat reader does this "sensing of Jay> paper size on each page" or not. Yes, I saw this feature at least in the V6 reader. It's on the print dialog, something like "select paper based on the page size". It seemed to work just fine. paul From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jul 23 13:02:16 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 In-Reply-To: <00ec01c470d1$c334a6e0$0f02a8c0@WorkGroup> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Jul 2004, SP wrote: > I was tracking it during last days, hoping that someone of the list mention > it. Yes, it appears to be complete. Sellam, Are you here ;-) ? Sorry, I don't have the money, time, or space to deal with this, as much as I'd like to. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jul 23 13:04:59 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: almost.... In-Reply-To: <001001c470d8$1d3e5e50$99100f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Jul 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > K.I.T.T. is the #1 car in TV history. What could be cooler > than a car that could, among other things, talk, think, > express its opinions, sense danger, analyze vital signs. ...and play Atari 2600 driving games on the in-dash display while you were in hot pursuit of a Bad Guy. (Anyone else remember this detail? :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aek at spies.com Fri Jul 23 13:06:32 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 Message-ID: <20040723180632.E22E13D02@spies.com> It may have been a different model but it was the same vintage. I've got some 5.25" floppies from it if anyone cares or wants copies, I think it's most of the OS. - That would have been a B1965 or later with the 'soft' console, which replaced the front panel and cassettes. I'm VERY interested in any tapes, floppies or docs for these systems and if anyone turns up a B1965 CPU or later PLEASE contact me, as a friend of mine who designed the 1965 CPU would like to have one. From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jul 23 13:33:58 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: was: Early timesharing now: pilotage In-Reply-To: <4100EBAC.1020809@citem.org> References: <000201c4707a$a0f15cb0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> <4100EBAC.1020809@citem.org> Message-ID: <20040723113238.D13509@newshell.lmi.net> > > actually give the plane to Al and he can go around and scan manuals and > > have tape drives built in to read every format tape known to man mounted in > > racks in the plane... On Fri, 23 Jul 2004, Hans B PUFAL wrote: > And provide the best delivery service for the complete data set ;-) to paraphrase Tenenbaum: Never underestimate the bandwidth of a cargo plane full of tapes! From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Fri Jul 23 13:36:12 2004 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: almost.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1ghdk6q.11vdpts1qpboqsM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > K.I.T.T. is the #1 car in TV history. What could be cooler > > than a car that could, among other things, talk, think, > > express its opinions, sense danger, analyze vital signs. > > ...and play Atari 2600 driving games on the in-dash display while you were > in hot pursuit of a Bad Guy. > > (Anyone else remember this detail? :) I remember it being Intellivision's Auto Racing. -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jul 23 14:05:33 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: almost.... In-Reply-To: <1ghdk6q.11vdpts1qpboqsM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Jul 2004, tim lindner wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > > K.I.T.T. is the #1 car in TV history. What could be cooler > > > than a car that could, among other things, talk, think, > > > express its opinions, sense danger, analyze vital signs. > > > > ...and play Atari 2600 driving games on the in-dash display while you were > > in hot pursuit of a Bad Guy. > > > > (Anyone else remember this detail? :) > > I remember it being Intellivision's Auto Racing. You're probably right, as my recollection would indicate it was not exactly Atari 2600 (but then I couldn't think off-hand of what it might have been). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pechter at ureach.com Thu Jul 22 10:38:19 2004 From: pechter at ureach.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: RM02/3 drives and CDC9762 Message-ID: <40FFDF6B.7090907@ureach.com> >Message: 1 >Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 17:32:21 +0800 >From: Wai-Sun Chia >Subject: CDC 9762 vs. RM02/03? >To: General@caspar.my.cpqcorp.net, > "Discussion@caspar.my.cpqcorp.net":On-Topic Posts Only > >Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Message-ID: <40F3AC25.7080303@hp.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > >I have some conflicting info here. On one hand the literature says that >DEC rebadged the CDC9762 as RM02 and RM03s... > Rebadged and had modified (CDC supplied a slightly modified SMD interface for DEC to interface to. >OTOH, the CDC has a SMD interface yet the RM02/03 has a MASSBUS interface. > The SMD interface (modified by DEC) goes to a Massbus adapter housed in the drive cabinet under the drive. DEC also used a similar technique on RP04/5/6's which used a DCL (Drive Controller Logic IIRC) to interface to the Massbus from the internal drive logic levels. DEC modified the SMD signals on the RM02/RM03/RM05 to make them slightly different from standard SMD versions and they also used the CDC high altitude heads to reduce crashes. >Furthermore, the CDC is listed to be at 80MB, yet the RM02/03 apparently >has 67MB only. > RM02/RM03 is 80mb unformatted 67 formatted. CDC sold the drive which could be set to many different sector sizes and sector counts per cyl. So the DEC was 31 or 32 (IIRC) sectors of 512 bytes per track. CDC topped out with 33 sectors... IBM Series 1 systems I worked on used 256 byte sectors IIRC. >So, which is true? I'm confused. > > >Thanks. >/wai-sun > > Bill Pechter ex-DEC Field Service -- Bill Pechter Systems Administrator uReach Technologies 732-335-5432 Office 877-661-2126 Fax 877-661-2126 uNumber From BUFFYBRON at aol.com Thu Jul 22 11:48:54 2004 From: BUFFYBRON at aol.com (BUFFYBRON@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Motherboards Message-ID: <7a.5ca4a162.2e3149f6@aol.com> Hi Chris I will pay all shipping costs to the UK for the motherboards, please advise if this is possible. Brgds Steve From mike at corestore.org Fri Jul 23 14:17:09 2004 From: mike at corestore.org (Michael Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 In-Reply-To: <92721.12.51.33.23.07.2004@h003-spies.sv.meer.net ([205.217.155.3])> References: <92721.12.51.33.23.07.2004@h003-spies.sv.meer.net ([205.217.155.3])> Message-ID: <1042.15.54.30.23.07.2004@ool-44c61990.dyn.optonline.net ([68.198.25.144])> On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:16:00 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > >PLEASE! save this from the scrapper! > >The Computer History Mueseum has one of these and one of the stops I made last >month was to one of the last field service guys who maintained those systems >and picked up all of the documentation, field diags, and a complete set of >cards that he still had left. I'm hoping Mike (corestore) will be interested >but it is a BIG system, as you can tell from the pics. >--- > >There is a B1955 mainframe system on Ebay right now, with just about a day >left: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5109222569 Oh feck... Louisiana is a long way... wish there were some better pics, I wouldn't know any Burroughs kit if it fell on my head. Not something I've ever looked at. How old is a 1955? What's the blinkenlight count like? Is it compatible with anything better-known? Mike http://www.corestore.org 'As I walk along these shores I am the history within' From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Jul 23 16:01:20 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 References: <92721.12.51.33.23.07.2004@h003-spies.sv.meer.net([205.217.155.3])> <1042.15.54.30.23.07.2004@ool-44c61990.dyn.optonline.net([68.198.25.144])> Message-ID: <023901c470f8$34567c60$033310ac@kwcorp.com> If I had room, I'd grab this one in a heartbeat. :( Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From aek at spies.com Fri Jul 23 16:33:08 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 Message-ID: <20040723213308.145203C81@spies.com> > How old is a 1955? Early 80's. Second to last generation of machines that started with the B1700 in the early 70's > What is the blinkenlight count like. 24, rotary switch, and row of paddles. > Is it compatible with anything better-known? B1700 -> B1800 -> B1900 (B1000) It's cool because there wasn't a single macroinstruction set. The operating system and every language had its own pagable microcode. Was saying on nerdnite last monday that Burroughs managed to come up with some really interesting architectures for a really boring segment of the computer industry (banking) From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jul 23 16:37:47 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Lost a radio at VCF East? Message-ID: I'm missing a radio (walkie-talkie) and two wall warts that were at VCF East. I'm pretty sure they got stolen from my luggage by some fucker at either the TSA or JetBlue, but on the off-chance that I somehow left them behind and they did not get noticed, did someone else pick these up by accident? The radio is made by Maxon...all black, two channel. Just covering all my bases before I file a larceny report. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jul 23 16:59:49 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Disaster Recovery? In-Reply-To: <200407232156.i6NLukU16463@siconic.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Jul 2004, Morgan Tamplin wrote: > I'm not sure if you received my previous message regarding my possible > attendance at VCF East. I registered on-line "just in case". As it > turned out, I was not able to attend for a number of reasons, the last > being the constant rain on Thursday, July 15, which would have meant bad > driving. > > The same rain caused local flooding in Peterbough, Canada. There was no > loss of life but much property damage including some of my computer > collection housed in a "low-lying" storage facility. I have spant the > past week doing cleanup. Unfortunately much of my documentation (in boxes > on the floor) was soaked beyond recovery but I would appreciate any > advice on possible restoration (or not!) of water-damaged electronics. > Even links to web sites or discussion groups would be helpful. Hi Morgan. This is very unfortunate! The best thing to do is immediately transfer the wet documents to a freezer. This will effectively freeze-dry the documents and give you a chance to recover them. There have been numerous discussions on the Classic Computers mailing list about this in the past, and so I've copied this reply to that list. I would ask that anyone posting replies please also post a reply to Morgan directly (see his e-mail address in the header please). Good luck! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Jul 23 17:03:49 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 (update) In-Reply-To: <20040723161600.51BC73CF9@spies.com> Message-ID: > PLEASE! save this from the scrapper! I have decided to try. I have now talked with the owner of the system, and he is quite nice and reasonable. So if anyone else plans on bidding: PLEASE LET ME KNOW. NOW. By the way, he really does mean 50 some terminals and 20 some printers! We guesstimate at 7 skids of stuff. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jul 23 17:15:38 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 In-Reply-To: <41013E26.3000605@citem.org> References: <20040723162114.5A7343CF6@spies.com> <20040723162114.5A7343CF6@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040723181538.008946a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:34 PM 7/23/04 +0200, Hans wrote: >An anecdote : I used to work for Burroughs doing software support for >the B1900 series in Europe. One day at a Burroughs office in Brussels, >one of the center staff complained to me that their B1900 would >occasionally halt requiring a reboot. Halts were programmed and the >reason was displayed on the console panel as a pattern of lights. I ask >him what the halt code was. His reply "Oh some of the lights are on, and >some are off" Needless to say I was not motivated to find out what >their problem was. > >I am in touch with some of my ex-colleagues in Belgium where I worked >and will see if they have any docs which might be helpful. FWIW I worked on the early B17xx series (field engineer). That was in 1977-1978. I don't think I ever saw a 1900 series. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jul 23 17:32:31 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Cybex Data Reduction Computer?? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040723183231.009037f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I went out today found a Cybex Data Reduction Computer. Is anyone familar with them? It has a tan plastic shell with a QWERTY keyboard and a single line LED display with a printer on the LH top side. I opened it up and found that it has an AIM-65 computer board in it. Haven't done anything with it other than that. Joe From spedraja at ono.com Fri Jul 23 17:43:29 2004 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 (update) References: Message-ID: <000f01c47106$79a4c340$0f02a8c0@WorkGroup> If you bid for the system you have expedite the way, at least from my part. Cheers Sergio ----- Original Message ----- From: William Donzelli To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: ; Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 12:03 AM Subject: Re: Burroughs B1955 (update) > > PLEASE! save this from the scrapper! > > I have decided to try. I have now talked with the owner of the system, and > he is quite nice and reasonable. So if anyone else plans on bidding: > > PLEASE LET ME KNOW. NOW. > > By the way, he really does mean 50 some terminals and 20 some printers! We > guesstimate at 7 skids of stuff. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > From aek at spies.com Fri Jul 23 18:06:57 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 Message-ID: <20040723230657.2DC1B3C94@spies.com> FWIW I worked on the early B17xx series (field engineer). That was in 1977-1978. I don't think I ever saw a 1900 series. -- The 1800's would have just been hitting the field then. 1900's did't make it out until the early 80's Some nice pics of the 17xx up now under http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/burroughs/B1700/B1700_brochures/ esp http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/burroughs/B1700/B1700_brochures/1066149_1700/1066149_1700_front_mar73.jpg From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jul 23 18:09:41 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Cybex Data Reduction Computer?? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040723183231.009037f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Jul 2004, Joe R. wrote: > I went out today found a Cybex Data Reduction Computer. Is anyone familar > with them? It has a tan plastic shell with a QWERTY keyboard and a single > line LED display with a printer on the LH top side. I opened it up and > found that it has an AIM-65 computer board in it. Haven't done anything > with it other than that. Nice score. AIM-65's found their way into a lot of this type of equipment (as embedded controllers especially). Have you got a photo? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Jul 23 18:16:01 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Cybex Data Reduction Computer?? Message-ID: <200407232316.QAA18904@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Joe R." > > I went out today found a Cybex Data Reduction Computer. Is anyone familar >with them? It has a tan plastic shell with a QWERTY keyboard and a single >line LED display with a printer on the LH top side. I opened it up and >found that it has an AIM-65 computer board in it. Haven't done anything >with it other than that. > > Joe > Hi Joe A number of people slapped lables on AIM-65's. I have a box similar to this with a few extra boards added that is AIM-65 based as well. What other than the shell is non-AIM-65 ?? Dwight From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri Jul 23 19:08:19 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Cybex Data Reduction Computer?? In-Reply-To: <200407232316.QAA18904@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200407232316.QAA18904@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20040724000819.GD7917@bos7.spole.gov> On Fri, Jul 23, 2004 at 04:16:01PM -0700, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > A number of people slapped lables on AIM-65's. I have > a box similar to this with a few extra boards added that > is AIM-65 based as well. > What other than the shell is non-AIM-65 ?? Me, too... mine came with a board loaded with EPROMs mounted _under_ the AIM-65 motherboard. Oh... a little tip - I have proven that the 6520 on the display board can be replaced with an 6821 (I have a number of 6821s since they were used to drive the printer port and the diagnostic display for the original COMBOARD model). I have more than one AIM-65 at home, but only one display board. One of my projects is to fabricate a replica on perfboard. Mostly via eBay, I've managed to pick up a few of the 4-char ASCII displays that are on that board. Barring that, I was thinking about using some modern ASCII displays that I picked up for a couple $$ each from BG Micro, and re-writing the relevant ROM code. Obviously, direct replacement is simpler. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 23-Jul-2004 24:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -87.0 F (-66.2 C) Windchill -137.6 F (-94.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 18.5 kts Grid 006 Barometer 665.5 mb (11176. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dancohoe at oxford.net Fri Jul 23 19:46:20 2004 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 (update) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301c47117$a3a9feb0$6401a8c0@DCOHOE> > > I have decided to try. I have now talked with the owner of > the system, and > he is quite nice and reasonable. So if anyone else plans on bidding: > > PLEASE LET ME KNOW. NOW. > > By the way, he really does mean 50 some terminals and 20 some > printers! We > guesstimate at 7 skids of stuff. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org If you need any help on this I can do something William. I priced transport and have what looks like a very good rate. Contact me off-list if you get a chance. Dan Cohoe > From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Jul 23 20:05:27 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 References: <20040723213308.145203C81@spies.com> Message-ID: <007501c4711a$4f46b9a0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> It was written... > It's cool because there wasn't a single macroinstruction set. > The operating system and every language had its own pagable > microcode. Ok, now THAT is cool. Pageable on the fly? Nifty. Reminds me of a Microdata Reality M1600 that I had many years ago. The ROM board had been replaced by an EEPROM board, and you could change the macroinstruction execution (and define new ones). But that was a special development version of the system. The Burroughs is production. Way cool. Jay From hansp at citem.org Fri Jul 23 20:17:56 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 (update) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4101B8C4.1000205@citem.org> William Donzelli wrote: >>PLEASE! save this from the scrapper! > I have decided to try. I have now talked with the owner of the system, and > he is quite nice and reasonable. Perhaps we can make this a group project. I'd be willing to contribute a modest amount.... -- HansP From stevew at ka6s.com Sat Jul 24 06:27:35 2004 From: stevew at ka6s.com (Steve Wilson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: B1955 Message-ID: <410247A7.10003@ka6s.com> Well - my wife says I can't bid on it :-( I helped bring the machine into manufacturing! (Hi Hans...) It was the first TTL machine Burroughs made, and is built out of basic 74S series stuff and proms. I joined the company as they were bringing up the etch card version of this machine. My first job was to get all the etch cards debugged. If anyone buys the beast here in San Jose - I would love to help get it working. Al has my notebook on the follow-up machine, the B1965 that was the basis for the Field service manual for the B1965. Some of the cards are common! P.S. Al - is the Computer History Museum ever going to be interested in resurecting the B1955 they have?? Steve Wilson From dholland at woh.rr.com Fri Jul 23 21:28:52 2004 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Connector question... Message-ID: <4101C964.7080203@woh.rr.com> Hi, I'm getting around to doing something w/ that RS/6000 59H (finally) - Backup server for my network. So I Epay for a 10/100 MCA NIC, (No, 10Mbs won't do for the amounts of storage involved). I've had a Sun Storage Library in the basement for a while, get AIX re-installed, and the box on the LAN.. And then I go to plug the library into the SCSI connector. Wots this.. Hmm, not HD50 like I thought.. Hmmm Google..Google..Google... And an hour later Google has told me very little. Anyways, the SCSI card is a IBM's SCSI-2 Fast/Wide card # 71G2589. The connector itself has 68 'pins' (says so on the connector) Looks more like a Centronics connector but is smaller, and has more than 50 pins. (Or you could say it looks like a SCA connector, but is missing 12 pins.) Its also to "big" to be VHDCI. Hopefully I'll be able to re-ID the harddrives in the system, and connect the library onto the other end of the SCSI chain, and get it connected that ways. (Otherwise, I'll be looking at interfacing the library to a SGI Indy (or Octane). The RS/6000 is at least more impressive looking.) Anyways, I'm annoyed now, and would at least like to know what that connector is, and where I can get an adapter/cable for it. (whatever this is to HPDB50) Anyone out there own a "Mallet-O-Understanding", and feel like beating me about the head and shoulders w/ it? :-) Thanks, David From aek at spies.com Fri Jul 23 21:34:50 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: B1955 Message-ID: <20040724023450.5EA8A3C60@spies.com> It was the first TTL machine Burroughs made -- oops.. thought the 1965 was. Microcode cache was the big change for the 1965? Al has my notebook on the follow-up machine -- Which I need to return to you. There is a LOT of new information up on bitsavers now, Steve you may want to check out. -- is the Computer History Museum ever going to be interested in resurecting the B1955 they have?? -- I hope so, but they have two major restoration projects going on right now (pdp-1 and 1401) so they probably won't want to do anything until after those. From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Jul 23 21:59:14 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 In-Reply-To: <20040723230657.2DC1B3C94@spies.com> Message-ID: > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/burroughs/B1700/B1700_brochures/1066149_1700/1066149_1700_front_mar73.jpg OK, so Burroughs machines were not the easiest things on the eyes. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aek at spies.com Fri Jul 23 22:07:57 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 Message-ID: <20040724030757.98FD23C88@spies.com> > OK, so Burroughs machines were not the easiest things on the eyes um... what about that B800 ? now, THATS ugly. Not quite as bad as a B90, but pretty durn ugly. http://www.osfn.org/ricm/c-b800.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri Jul 23 22:31:20 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: RM02/3 drives and CDC9762 In-Reply-To: <40FFDF6B.7090907@ureach.com> References: <40FFDF6B.7090907@ureach.com> Message-ID: <20040724033120.GA29056@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 11:38:19AM -0400, Bill Pechter wrote: > DEC modified the SMD signals on the RM02/RM03/RM05 to make them > slightly different from standard SMD versions and they also used > the CDC high altitude heads to reduce crashes. I didn't know about the high altitude heads. That's an interesting tidbit. > RM02/RM03 is 80mb unformatted 67 formatted. CDC sold the drive > which could be set to many different sector sizes and sector counts > per cyl. > > So the DEC was 31 or 32 (IIRC) sectors of 512 bytes per track. > CDC topped out with 33 sectors... A-ha! That makes perfect sense. With a bit of googling (RM02, RM03, 9762 and cylinder), the first hit is http://www.inwap.com/pdp10/usenet/disks In the article, among other disk sizes, the RM02/RM03 is 823 cyls, 5 heads, 32 sectors/track - 67,420,160 bytes (33 s.p.t is 69,527,040, meaning that there must be a bit of overhead compared to the 80MB unformatted capacity). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 24-Jul-2004 03:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -83.8 F (-64.4 C) Windchill -133.1 F (-91.8 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 18.5 kts Grid 004 Barometer 664.7 mb (11208. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Jul 23 23:19:15 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: was: Early timesharing now: pilotage In-Reply-To: <20040723113238.D13509@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Jul 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > to paraphrase Tenenbaum: That would be Tanenbaum (Andy) > Never underestimate the bandwidth of a cargo plane full of tapes! That would be "never underestimate the bandwidth of a truck loaded with tapes, hurtling down the highway". --f From sastevens at earthlink.net Fri Jul 23 23:43:46 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Commodore Pet ROM trouble... EPROM Substitutes... In-Reply-To: References: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F128D6@INETMAIL> Message-ID: <20040723234346.40b04fcc.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 00:56:08 +0100 Philip Pemberton wrote: > Painful experience? > Another one - EPROMs that have been installed in the socket backwards > in a device that posesses a very big PSU tend to glow white-hot then > die. > That's called a 'Light Emitting EPROM' and it's an expensive and short-lived alternative to an LED. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jul 24 00:01:47 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: was: Early timesharing now: pilotage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040723214535.E25568@newshell.lmi.net> On Sat, 24 Jul 2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > to paraphrase Tenenbaum: > That would be Tanenbaum (Andy) That's right; my mistake. (I know several people with similar names and a variety of spellings) "Tannenbaum" is another alternate misspelling. There are a few people who attribute FIRST use of the quote to others, including Warren Jackson. > > Never underestimate the bandwidth of a cargo plane full of tapes! > That would be "never underestimate the bandwidth of a truck loaded > with tapes, hurtling down the highway". hence the phrase "to paraphrase" to alter it to the cargo plane project. BTW, it is usually quoted as a "STATION WAGON full of tapes". But can ANYTHING exceed the bandwidth of misinformation, or bad news? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From esharpe at uswest.net Sat Jul 24 00:29:05 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 (update) References: Message-ID: <004601c4713f$22e1acb0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> WE MAY BID THIS AS WE LOVE BURROUGHS EQUIPMENT?! WHAT IS UP ON THIS? ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Donzelli" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Cc: ; Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 3:03 PM Subject: Re: Burroughs B1955 (update) > > PLEASE! save this from the scrapper! > > I have decided to try. I have now talked with the owner of the system, and > he is quite nice and reasonable. So if anyone else plans on bidding: > > PLEASE LET ME KNOW. NOW. > > By the way, he really does mean 50 some terminals and 20 some printers! We > guesstimate at 7 skids of stuff. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > > > From esharpe at uswest.net Sat Jul 24 00:31:51 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:27 2005 Subject: almost.... References: Message-ID: <005401c4713f$862b75d0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Now that is a neat toy! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 9:45 AM Subject: almost.... > Hiyall, > > Hmm, this is almost on-topic here, and contains a fair bit > of electronics and puter stuff. I wonder whether they'll > include the engineerings drawings. > > http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2256298346&category=28193# > > And, just for the record: yes, I am bidding, and no, not affliated. > > --fred > > > From hansp at citem.org Sat Jul 24 01:44:56 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Commodore Pet ROM trouble... EPROM Substitutes... In-Reply-To: <20040723234346.40b04fcc.sastevens@earthlink.net> References: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F128D6@INETMAIL> <20040723234346.40b04fcc.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <41020568.2030300@citem.org> Scott Stevens wrote: > On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 00:56:08 +0100 > Philip Pemberton wrote: > >>Painful experience? >>Another one - EPROMs that have been installed in the socket backwards >>in a device that posesses a very big PSU tend to glow white-hot then >>die. But not always! I did this once, saw the bright glow and resignedly went to burn a new EPROM. Just for laughs, I later tried to erase the "burnt-out" part and to my surprise it was still functional and subsequently served the project well. I should have noted the manufacturer ;-) -- HansP From esharpe at uswest.net Sat Jul 24 01:53:07 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 (update) References: <004601c4713f$22e1acb0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: <00cc01c4714a$e08c5bb0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> hmmmmm quite a bit of weight here... William? I have not heard from you on this? ----- Original Message ----- From: "ed sharpe" To: "William Donzelli" Cc: Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 10:29 PM Subject: Re: Burroughs B1955 (update) > WE MAY BID THIS AS WE LOVE BURROUGHS EQUIPMENT?! WHAT IS UP ON THIS? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Donzelli" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Cc: ; > Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 3:03 PM > Subject: Re: Burroughs B1955 (update) > > > > > PLEASE! save this from the scrapper! > > > > I have decided to try. I have now talked with the owner of the system, and > > he is quite nice and reasonable. So if anyone else plans on bidding: > > > > PLEASE LET ME KNOW. NOW. > > > > By the way, he really does mean 50 some terminals and 20 some printers! We > > guesstimate at 7 skids of stuff. > > > > William Donzelli > > aw288@osfn.org > > > > > > > > > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jul 24 02:03:04 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Cybex Data Reduction Computer?? In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Re: Cybex Data Reduction Computer??" (Jul 24, 0:08) References: <200407232316.QAA18904@clulw009.amd.com> <20040724000819.GD7917@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <10407240803.ZM24302@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 24, 0:08, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Oh... a little tip - I have proven that the 6520 on the display board can > be replaced with an 6821 (I have a number of 6821s since they were used to > drive the printer port and the diagnostic display for the original COMBOARD > model). We used to do that for the user ports on PETs. We had a lot of PETs, and found the 6520s on user ports could be rather fragile, but 6821s were rather better. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From esharpe at uswest.net Sat Jul 24 02:27:04 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 (update) References: <004601c4713f$22e1acb0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> <00cc01c4714a$e08c5bb0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: <00e601c4714f$9ec4f700$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> think we will save the freight for something a bit older.... since William has not answered we can assume he is haunching over the terminal waiting for it to close! Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "ed sharpe" To: "ed sharpe" ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" ; "William Donzelli" Cc: Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:53 PM Subject: Re: Burroughs B1955 (update) > hmmmmm quite a bit of weight here... > William? I have not heard from you on this? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ed sharpe" > To: "William Donzelli" > Cc: > Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 10:29 PM > Subject: Re: Burroughs B1955 (update) > > > > WE MAY BID THIS AS WE LOVE BURROUGHS EQUIPMENT?! WHAT IS UP ON THIS? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "William Donzelli" > > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > > Cc: ; > > Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 3:03 PM > > Subject: Re: Burroughs B1955 (update) > > > > > > > > PLEASE! save this from the scrapper! > > > > > > I have decided to try. I have now talked with the owner of the system, > and > > > he is quite nice and reasonable. So if anyone else plans on bidding: > > > > > > PLEASE LET ME KNOW. NOW. > > > > > > By the way, he really does mean 50 some terminals and 20 some printers! > We > > > guesstimate at 7 skids of stuff. > > > > > > William Donzelli > > > aw288@osfn.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From esharpe at uswest.net Sat Jul 24 02:33:30 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 (update) References: <004601c4713f$22e1acb0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED><00cc01c4714a$e08c5bb0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> <00e601c4714f$9ec4f700$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: <00fa01c47150$8467bd10$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Another idea one of the advisory board folk came up when I just mentioned this to them was if someone had a truck heading this way we would certainly provide space for it. Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "ed sharpe" To: "ed sharpe" ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" ; "William Donzelli" Cc: Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 12:27 AM Subject: Re: Burroughs B1955 (update) > think we will save the freight for something a bit older.... > since William has not answered we can assume he is haunching over the > terminal waiting for it to close! > Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC > > Please check our web site at > http://www.smecc.org > to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we > buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. > > address: > > coury house / smecc > 5802 w palmaire ave > glendale az 85301 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ed sharpe" > To: "ed sharpe" ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and > Off-Topic Posts" ; "William Donzelli" > > Cc: > Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:53 PM > Subject: Re: Burroughs B1955 (update) > > > > hmmmmm quite a bit of weight here... > > William? I have not heard from you on this? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "ed sharpe" > > To: "William Donzelli" > > Cc: > > Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 10:29 PM > > Subject: Re: Burroughs B1955 (update) > > > > > > > WE MAY BID THIS AS WE LOVE BURROUGHS EQUIPMENT?! WHAT IS UP ON THIS? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "William Donzelli" > > > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > > > > Cc: ; > > > Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 3:03 PM > > > Subject: Re: Burroughs B1955 (update) > > > > > > > > > > > PLEASE! save this from the scrapper! > > > > > > > > I have decided to try. I have now talked with the owner of the system, > > and > > > > he is quite nice and reasonable. So if anyone else plans on bidding: > > > > > > > > PLEASE LET ME KNOW. NOW. > > > > > > > > By the way, he really does mean 50 some terminals and 20 some > printers! > > We > > > > guesstimate at 7 skids of stuff. > > > > > > > > William Donzelli > > > > aw288@osfn.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From rmeenaks at olf.com Sat Jul 24 06:13:56 2004 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Pagemaker for the MACs (68k) Message-ID: <0I1C0079TSJ5E3@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Hi, Does anyone have a copy of Pagemaker for the MAC (68k not PPC) which I can, ahem, borrow? I want to convert some documents that I have over to PS/PDF but I only have the PC version of Pagemaker and the documents were created on the MAC. They are only cross-platform compatible across the same version of Pagemaker :-( I believe the documents were either created in Pagemaker 3.0 or 4.0... Thanks, Ram From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sat Jul 24 07:23:49 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: EPROM based lamps. In-Reply-To: <41020568.2030300@citem.org> Message-ID: >>> >>Another one - EPROMs that have been installed in the >>> socket backwards in a device that posesses a very big PSU tend to glow >>> white-hot then die. >>> >>> But not always! I did this once, saw the bright glow and >>> resignedly went to burn a new EPROM. Just for laughs, I >>> later tried to erase the "burnt-out" part and to my >>> surprise it was still functional and subsequently served >>> the project well. I should have noted the manufacturer ;-) During the mid-1980's I worked on a large number of projects that used 2716,2732,2674,27128 EPROMS. As A result, I plugged a number of them in backwards over the years. The ones most likely to glow were the 2732's. My initial experience was that if you managed to power down before the circuit burned out, then the device would erase and continue to work. After some experimentation with this, a co-worker how had access to our Sem [scanning electronic microscope] de-lidded one of the working units that had glowed. Although the unit was still functional visible damage was easily detected. It bacame company policy that any EPROM that was plugged in backwards and powered up, had to be immediately scrapped [break off some pins!] regardless of any obvious damage. David. From spedraja at ono.com Sat Jul 24 07:52:19 2004 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: eBay interesting Items References: Message-ID: <000d01c4717d$0e40e080$0f02a8c0@WorkGroup> Here go one link interesting for HP1000 owners: http://cgi.es.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5111303805&ssPageName= MERC_VI From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jul 24 07:41:57 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 In-Reply-To: <20040723230657.2DC1B3C94@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040724084157.008c48f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:06 PM 7/23/04 -0700, you wrote: > > > FWIW I worked on the early B17xx series (field engineer). That was in >1977-1978. I don't think I ever saw a 1900 series. > >-- > >The 1800's would have just been hitting the field then. 1900's did't >make it out until the early 80's You're right, I think I saw one 1800 just before I left. It's too bad I didn't save ANYTHING from those days. I may still have my papers showing that I finished some of Burroughs schools but that's it. BTW do you remember about a month ago I told about the guy that blindly reached up inside a computer and stuck his hand into a fan in the power supply and cut off the ends of a couple fingers? That was on a B 1700. Joe > >Some nice pics of the 17xx up now under >http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/burroughs/B1700/B1700_brochures/ > >esp > >http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/burroughs/B1700/B1700_brochures/1066149_1700/1 066149_1700_front_mar73.jpg > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jul 24 07:43:18 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Cybex Data Reduction Computer?? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040723183231.009037f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040724084318.008b1100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:09 PM 7/23/04 -0700, you wrote: >On Fri, 23 Jul 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> I went out today found a Cybex Data Reduction Computer. Is anyone familar >> with them? It has a tan plastic shell with a QWERTY keyboard and a single >> line LED display with a printer on the LH top side. I opened it up and >> found that it has an AIM-65 computer board in it. Haven't done anything >> with it other than that. > >Nice score. AIM-65's found their way into a lot of this type of equipment >(as embedded controllers especially). > >Have you got a photo? No it's still in the car but I'll try to do that today. I need to get some of the 7905/7905 tools anyway. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jul 24 07:55:28 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: B800 Re: Burroughs B1955 In-Reply-To: <20040724030757.98FD23C88@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040724085528.0090ec00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> The thing that I remember about the B800 (or B80?) was that it used an 8" floppy drive. I'd never seen one before. Before that we used tapes to load all the SW and to IPL the Burroughs machines. I remember the instructions for the B800 said that the floppy disk should be changed every 40 hours! That's less than a standard work week! And I remember the disk weren't cheap in those days but thinking oh well, banks own them and they can certainly afford the costs. A good friend of mine namded Marvin Mills from Bedford Va was the field engineer on these for the SW Virginia area. Joe At 08:07 PM 7/23/04 -0700, you wrote: > >> OK, so Burroughs machines were not the easiest things on the eyes > >um... what about that B800 ? > >now, THATS ugly. Not quite as bad as a B90, but pretty durn ugly. > >http://www.osfn.org/ricm/c-b800.html > > From hansp at citem.org Sat Jul 24 08:14:02 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: B800 Re: Burroughs B1955 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040724085528.0090ec00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040724085528.0090ec00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <4102609A.10008@citem.org> Joe R. wrote: > The thing that I remember about the B800 (or B80?) was that it used an > 8" floppy drive. I'd never seen one before. Before that we used tapes to > load all the SW and to IPL the Burroughs machines. Indeed, I worked on the development of the B80 and the 8 in floppy was the system disk for some configurations. It held 1 M byte > I remember the > instructions for the B800 said that the floppy disk should be changed every > 40 hours! That's less than a standard work week! And I remember the disk > weren't cheap in those days but thinking oh well, banks own them and they > can certainly afford the costs. I suspect the 40 hour was working hours, so unless the disk was permanently operational it should last considerably longer. I don't recall any similar notices for the B80 floppy disks. -- HansP From trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Sat Jul 24 08:10:31 2004 From: trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (trash3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Jay: 11/45 books Message-ID: <040724091031.1313f@splab.cas.neu.edu> Jay, I found a 1972 pdp11/45 processor handbook and a 1976-77 pdp1104/34/45/55 processor handbook. I have also found a couple of pdp11 peripherals handbooks, but none of them go into any real detail on the differences in memory and what is useable in which system. If you want, I can mail you the handbooks. Joe Heck From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jul 24 08:06:54 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: HP 1000 manuals In-Reply-To: <001101c4702b$da1dd7b0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <3.0.6.32.20040722162131.00920ce0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040724090654.00901e20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Jay, Do you want to scan them? I'm still trying to get my system sorted out and it looks like it's going to be some time before I can start scanning stuff. Joe At 03:38 PM 7/22/04 -0500, you wrote: >Ones I could use, downloadable PDF's from Al's site are fine.... >> HP 2892A/12924A Card Reader Subsystem Diagnostic for HP 2100 Series >Computers >> HP 9866A/12566B Line Printer and Interface Diagnostic Rerference Manual >> RTE-IV Assembler Reference Manual > >Jay West > > From huw.davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Sat Jul 24 09:01:21 2004 From: huw.davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Amigas strike back! Message-ID: I was watching the test match from the UK on my local cable provider (Optus) earlier this evening when suddenly the screen went black (loss of sync) to be replaced with an Amiga desktop (in black and white). Looked like a much later release than the version I ran about 15 years ago but still recognizable. I wonder if this was a local Amiga or perhaps (more likely) a desktop in the UK. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au Melbourne | "If soccer was meant to be played in the Australia | air, the sky would be painted green" From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Sat Jul 24 09:08:35 2004 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 report... Message-ID: Take two days off work and it takes a week to recover... Anyway, here is a brief summary of my experience of VCF East 2.0. For those that want to look at some pictures (quality not guaranteed, my camera sucks) with no captions or anything: http://wsudbrink.dyndns.org:8080/vcfe2004/ Thursday, 7/15 Left Washington, DC at 6:20am. The drive was uneventful but long. Ten hours including gas and lunch stops. Couldn't find any other VCF'rs right away, so I settled into my room, posted to classiccmp and surfed a bit. The in room high speed internet at the hotel was nice, easy to set up and well firewalled. Later, went back out to my car for a couple of things and saw Hans Franke in the lobby. He had some stuff to do, so we agreed to meet in the hotel bar later. I drove over to recon the Sun site. Getting there was as easy as it looked on the map and the visitor parking was right next to the main entrance which included a ramp. Met Hans at the bar and after a little while, Lawrence Wilkinson joined us. Learned that Sellam was on his way from Japan and would be arriving the following morning. Suggested new classiccmp motto: "Collect vintage computers and see the world!" Had a beer (Thanks Hans!) some pleasant conversation and called it a night. Friday Arrived at Sun around 8am. I wasn't the first one there. Curt Vendel and Evan Koblentz were already there and several others arrived soon after. There was some waiting around while the Sun employees figured out what needed to be done, then we were registered with Sun security and started setting up. The area for the exhibits was a nice atrium adjacent to the employee cafeteria. I started setting up my machines, fully expecting the OSI to be a pain, due to the less than reliable "fatherboard" bus system it uses. It surprised me however, coming right up on the first try. I should have suspected something right then! I finished getting set up and started wandering around taking pictures, waiting for the speakers to start. After about an hour, I noticed that the display on the OSI had gone blank. "Ha! Got me after all, didn't you, you silly box?" So I broke out the toolbox, expecting to have to reseat the cards. A little thought went through the back of my mind that usually, when its bus is compromised, it displays garbage and I didn't remember it ever going blank before. A few people noticed me getting out my tools and wandered over to watch. As I picked it up to turn it over (you have to put the integrated keyboard style OSI boxes on their backs to work on them... great engineering) an embarrassing rattling was heard by all, eliciting a chorus of "Hey, you've got something loose in there!". Now I knew that there was nothing loose in that box when I brought it in from the car and there are no moving parts in it other than the fan, which had been humming along just fine when I powered it down, so what gives? I proceeded to open the case and there were two button style diodes loose in there. A quick look around showed that they came from the power supply and seem to have simply dropped off their leads. They must have heated up to the point that they melted the solder and fell. Well, nothing to do for it but put them back. Another testimony to OSI design is that you have to pretty much completely disassemble the box to get the PS out. Part of the PS frame supports the fatherboard. Repairs killed the whole speaker time and extended into the actual exhibit time, but I was able to give my spiel and make conversation with the people looking at my exhibit. Got it all up and working again and those diodes heated right up. I reached in with a toothpick and the solder was clearly molten so I powered it down and declared the OSI a non-functional exhibit, sigh. The rest of the exhibit time went well, with my Sol and Northstar both running like champs. The Sol running _Space_Raiders_ and the Northstar running _Zork_. We closed up for the day and a large group went to Victoria Station restaurant for dinner. It is a neat looking restaurant, with real train cars incorporated into the building. The food was good and I sat next to Art Hill and his wife and got a little bit of a preview of his Saturday talk. Saturday I attended all of the speaker sessions on Saturday. They were all great! Art Hill has had a remarkable career with computers, starting back in the tube days. He shared some of the experiences he has had along the way. Lawrence Wilkinson told us about bringing an IBM 360 back to life along with all of the logistics involved (like, where are you going to put it?). Evan Koblentz shared the results of his research into the history of PDAs, which goes back a good bit further than you might think. Finally, Jon Titus told us about the Mark-8, both in technical terms and about the process of getting it (the article) published. The exhibits were pretty well attended on Saturday. Several Sun employees came back and brought children with them which was fun. Showing them _Zork_ in particular... "Wow, you can have a game without pictures?" Things finished up. Oh yea, I won first place in "Manufactured personal computer - Pre 1981" and third place "Best of Show". Got everything packed up and went with Hans, Lawrence, Evan, Bob Maxwell and William Donzelli to Chili's for dinner. Hans would have preferred to go back to Victoria Station (with its large portions) but he made do by ordering two entrees! We got a call from Sellam and, after dinner, Hans and I went back to Sun and rescued a VCF sign that had been forgotten out by the entrance. Sunday Before the trip home, I went over to MIT for the swapfest. I got there at 7am, thinking that I would just pay the sellers fee to get in for a while before I hit the road. I discovered that, while it's not mentioned on their flyer, they do have a $15 "early bird" admission that gets you in at 7:15. No $1 discount on the early bird admission however. The $15 was worth it as I made a great find, a blue, 9 inch Ball monitor, manufactured in 1979, in great shape. For $10, an almost perfect match for my Sol, down to the PL59 cable that came with it! I found Hans at the swapfest and gave him the VCF sign (that had been left in my car the night before) and hit the road for home at about 9:15am. Thanks to everyone whose efforts went into this event! I had a really great time and will make every effort to attend next year. Bill Sudbrink From ikvsabre at comcast.net Sat Jul 24 10:08:18 2004 From: ikvsabre at comcast.net (Joe Stevenson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Commodore 1541 disk drives for sale In-Reply-To: <200407220806230546.5768ED1A@smtp.comcast.net> References: <004b01c46e5f$9a9f0dc0$0801010a@LIFEBOOK> <40FE7A13.5010505@hp.com> <200407220806230546.5768ED1A@smtp.comcast.net> Message-ID: <200407241108180718.0055BECE@smtp.comcast.net> I forgot to mention that I have the power cords and serial cables for the drives (included in the price). Joe *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 7/22/2004 at 8:06 AM Joe Stevenson wrote: >Hi guys, > >I bought a lot with a bunch of Commodore stuff, and it included a bunch of >1541 drives. I only need 1 or 2, so I looking to sell off the rest. I >sold one on eBay for $20, so I figure that is a decent asking price. > >$20 each + shipping. > >I've got several of them. Drop me a note if you are interested > >Joe >ikvsabre@comcast.net > >PS - I hope this is the right list. I apologize if I've sent this message >to the wrong list. If so, let me know and I will post where it belongs. From aek at spies.com Sat Jul 24 10:18:17 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: B700 vs B1700 Message-ID: <20040724151817.30ECF3CA4@spies.com> Indeed, I worked on the development of the B80 and the 8 in floppy was the system disk for some configurations. It held 1 M byte -- Was there any common code developed between the 700 and 1700 series? One of the things I had wondered about was on the front panel of the 1700 the '1' in 1700 was smaller than the rest of the digits, like it was somehow related to the 700, which seems strange since they aren't at all alike archetecturally. I'll have some more info on the 700 series going up soon. May be of use if they ever try to get the B800 running again (though I'm not sure if they got any software with it) From brad at heeltoe.com Sat Jul 24 10:29:25 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: 2.10bsd on an 18 bit '11? Message-ID: <200407241529.i6OFTPR31498@mwave.heeltoe.com> Does anyone have any experience running 2.10bsd on a 18 bit pdp 11, like an 11/34? I googled and could not find anything. -brad From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jul 24 10:55:52 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Pictures: Re: Cybex Data Reduction Computer?? In-Reply-To: <20040724000819.GD7917@bos7.spole.gov> References: <200407232316.QAA18904@clulw009.amd.com> <200407232316.QAA18904@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040724115552.008b5bb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:08 AM 7/24/04 +0000, you wrote: >On Fri, Jul 23, 2004 at 04:16:01PM -0700, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >> A number of people slapped lables on AIM-65's. I have >> a box similar to this with a few extra boards added that >> is AIM-65 based as well. >> What other than the shell is non-AIM-65 ?? > >Me, too... mine came with a board loaded with EPROMs mounted _under_ the >AIM-65 motherboard. I took this one apart this morning. It has two cards under the AIM-65 board. I haven't looked close but one of them appears to be an A/D card. The other has 24 2114 RAM chips on it along with two 74154s. I posted pictures of it at . > >Oh... a little tip - I have proven that the 6520 on the display board can >be replaced with an 6821 (I have a number of 6821s since they were used to >drive the printer port and the diagnostic display for the original COMBOARD >model). That's good to know. Can a 6821 simply be dropped in it's place or does it require any other changes? > >I have more than one AIM-65 at home, but only one display board. One of my >projects is to fabricate a replica on perfboard. Mostly via eBay, I've >managed to pick up a few of the 4-char ASCII displays that are on that board. I've seen a lot of displays around that look like these. I should pick up some for spares. >Barring that, I was thinking about using some modern ASCII displays that I >picked up for a couple $$ each from BG Micro, and re-writing the relevant >ROM code. Obviously, direct replacement is simpler. > >-ethan > >-- >Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 23-Jul-2004 24:00 Z >South Pole Station >PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -87.0 F (-66.2 C) Windchill -137.6 F (-94.2 C) >APO AP 96598 Wind 18.5 kts Grid 006 Barometer 665.5 mb (11176. ft) > >Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jul 24 10:59:08 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Other new finds: MOD COMP Maintenance Panels Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040724115908.008b87b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I forgot to mention these yesterday but I also found two Mod Comp Maintenance Panels. I'm not sure but it looks like these may have been made specificly for NASA. I bought them from KSC. I've posted pictures at Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jul 24 11:31:57 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Pictures: Anybody here work on HP 7905/7920 disk drives? In-Reply-To: <200407221724.KAA17560@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040724123157.00909af0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Al, Here is a picture of the tools; . Note that the box has a crack near the to LH coner. The upper connector on the top connector/socket assemnbly has spots of corrosion from the foam and some green spots of foam on the top on the contacts inside the socket. The part on the RH side doesn't look like any of the pictures on the box. I'm not sure what it is but it has a 07920 part number* and was in the box with the other stuff. * A closer look revealed that the number on this part is 07970-62421. Joe >> >>> Went scrounging yesterday and found a small plastic box of what looks >>> like HP disk drive test/alignment accessories. Parts include 07905-60049, >>> 07905-60039, 5061-1386, 07920-60030 and 07920-62421. Anybody need this >>> stuff? The box is filled with that old self-disintegrating foam so the >>> stuff will need to be cleaned up but it looks like it's in very good >>> condition (the box is in rough shape). >>> >>> Joe >>> >> >> > > > From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Sat Jul 24 12:03:20 2004 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: DECmate III with a serial console? Message-ID: <5DA9ACD2-DD93-11D8-86F4-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> Well, I had four DECmate III computers when I went to VCF East and now I'm left with only two. Unfortunately, I don't have keyboards or monitors for either and that makes them unusable. Rather than trying to acquire a keyboard and monitor I'm wondering if anyone has tried to replace the boot ROMs to allow either OS/8 or OS/278 to boot using a serial terminal connected to the serial port. Is that even possible? It would be nice to be able to use these machines without a monitor or keyboard. Thanks, David Betz From tbilby at rave.com Sat Jul 24 12:28:36 2004 From: tbilby at rave.com (Tad Bilby) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Sparc Book 2 / 386 laptop give away Message-ID: <41029C44.8040005@rave.com> Hello, I am putting a Tadpole Sparc Book 2 "curbside" for pickup Thurs. morning unless anyone on the list would like to pick it up. Utica, MI - It was functional 6 mos. ago but now only the HD light flashes when the power switch is pressed. - The power supply is outputting the correct 18VDC. - I could not locate the component that was causing the crowbar. - It has only been minimally disassembled. - I am also setting aside a "Zeos notebook 386" (16Mhz 386sx, 5MB RAM, 20MB HD). - It ran OS/2 2.1 perfectly back in 1993 and currently has SCO Unix 3.2.4 loaded. There are no PCMCIA slots in this notebook. From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Jul 24 12:35:00 2004 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Pictures: Anybody here work on HP 7905/7920 disk drives? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040724123157.00909af0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> (Joe R.'s message of "Sat, 24 Jul 2004 12:31:57 -0400") References: <3.0.6.32.20040724123157.00909af0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200407241735.i6OHZ0Yv003618@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Joe R." wrote: > Here is a picture of the tools; > . Note that Some of the part numbers yield brief descriptive information at . I'm thinking these are not so much "tools" as "parts" from a 7925 parts kit. The HP CEs or their field offices had sets of rigid suitcases with cutout foam inserts loaded with field replaceable parts, some being in plastic cases like the one shown in your picture. If you needed a 7925 fixed the CE would show up with the 7925 parts kit suitcase(s) in his station wagon. There were tools too but I don't know whether they lived in different suitcases; it wasn't uncommon for the CE to bring the suitcases in on a folding luggage cart. -Frank McConnell From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat Jul 24 15:48:37 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: 2.10bsd on an 18 bit '11? In-Reply-To: <200407241529.i6OFTPR31498@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Jul 2004, Brad Parker wrote: > Does anyone have any experience running 2.10bsd on a 18 bit pdp 11, like > an 11/34? > > I googled and could not find anything. It probably works in small kernel configurations; 2.10 did not have the 22B requirement 2.11 has. It will be slowish, though; 2.9BSD might be a nicer system on it, or Ultrix-11. --f From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jul 24 15:59:10 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Pictures: Re: Cybex Data Reduction Computer?? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040724115552.008b5bb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Jul 2004, Joe R. wrote: > I took this one apart this morning. It has two cards under the AIM-65 > board. I haven't looked close but one of them appears to be an A/D card. > The other has 24 2114 RAM chips on it along with two 74154s. > > I posted pictures of it at . Very interesting box. That doesn't look like a standard AIM-65 keyboard. Isn't the keyboard integrated into the board normally? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jul 24 16:41:13 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Amigas strike back! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040724143950.W35147@newshell.lmi.net> On Sun, 25 Jul 2004, Huw Davies wrote: > I was watching the test match from the UK on my local cable provider > (Optus) earlier this evening when suddenly the screen went black (loss > of sync) to be replaced with an Amiga desktop (in black and white). > Looked like a much later release than the version I ran about 15 years > ago but still recognizable. I wonder if this was a local Amiga or > perhaps (more likely) a desktop in the UK. Occasionally, the channel guide of my cable company is replaced by a Guru Meditation Number. It hasn't happened lately; I hope that they haven't switched systems From marvin at rain.org Sat Jul 24 17:19:29 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: CADAC Motherboard Message-ID: <4102E071.F681FC48@rain.org> Is anyone familiar with the CADAC Motherboard? I couldn't find any information using Google. It looks like it might be an Apple clone with one slot for the ROM board, and 7 slots for other cards. There is an RCA video output as well as two 1/8" jacks labeled "IN" and "OUT". It has both a Z-80 and a 6502 microprocessor. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jul 24 17:24:17 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Pictures: Re: Cybex Data Reduction Computer?? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040724115552.008b5bb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040724182417.00902100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:59 PM 7/24/04 -0700, you wrote: >On Sat, 24 Jul 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> I took this one apart this morning. It has two cards under the AIM-65 >> board. I haven't looked close but one of them appears to be an A/D card. >> The other has 24 2114 RAM chips on it along with two 74154s. >> >> I posted pictures of it at . > >Very interesting box. That doesn't look like a standard AIM-65 keyboard. >Isn't the keyboard integrated into the board normally? Nope, it connects via a ribbon cable exactly like this one does. Here's a picture of another AIM-65 that I have and you can see the CPU board is the same and it has the same ribbon cable socket in the top left corner. I haven't had an AIM-65 with a keyboard for a long time so I don't know for certain if this keyboard is the same as the normal ones but I think it is. I pulled the keyboard out and checked it and the only name on it is Superior and a NAND gate symbol. Perhaps someone can compare this to their keyboard. Joe > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jul 24 17:28:52 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Register your exhibit for VCF 7.0! Message-ID: It's time to register as an exhibitor for VCF 7.0! The dates have been changed from October 30-31 to October 2-3. I wanted to have a Halloween VCF, but it wouldn't work out for too many people, so that idea unfortunately had to be scrapped (though you're still welcome to come dressed up if you'd like). This is less than 3 months away, so get your exhibit figured out and register ASAP! http://www.vintage.org/2004/main/exhibit.php The exhibit categories are going to be re-vamped this year, and all registered exhibitors will receive an update once the new rules and regulations are posted (in another 2 weeks or so). In the meantime, select an appropriate class from the existing ones. Please e-mail me directly if you have any questions. I hope to see at least 50 exhibitors at VCF 7.0 so please sign up!! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sat Jul 24 18:00:37 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: 2.10bsd on an 18 bit '11? In-Reply-To: <200407241529.i6OFTPR31498@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200407241529.i6OFTPR31498@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <20040724230037.GA16830@bos7.spole.gov> On Sat, Jul 24, 2004 at 11:29:25AM -0400, Brad Parker wrote: > > Does anyone have any experience running 2.10bsd on a 18 bit pdp 11, like > an 11/34? I know 2.9BSD will work. I also know that 2.11BSD will not (it requires a machine with split I&D space). I have not played with 2.10BSD, but you should look through whatever you can find about it and check what kind of CPU it requires. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 24-Jul-2004 22:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -80.5 F (-62.5 C) Windchill -123.6 F (-86.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 13.9 kts Grid 025 Barometer 664.5 mb (11217 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sat Jul 24 18:03:02 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: DECmate III with a serial console? In-Reply-To: <5DA9ACD2-DD93-11D8-86F4-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> References: <5DA9ACD2-DD93-11D8-86F4-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> Message-ID: <20040724230302.GB16830@bos7.spole.gov> On Sat, Jul 24, 2004 at 01:03:20PM -0400, David Betz wrote: > Rather than trying to > acquire a keyboard and monitor I'm wondering if anyone has tried to > replace the boot ROMs to allow either OS/8 or OS/278 to boot using a > serial terminal connected to the serial port. Is that even possible? I haven't tried it, but AFAIK, all of that style of DECmates (II, III, III+) require a composite monitor (VR201) and an LK201-protocol keyboard. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 24-Jul-2004 23:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -80.5 F (-62.5 C) Windchill -124.8 F (-87.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 14.9 kts Grid 018 Barometer 664.5 mb (11217 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sat Jul 24 18:10:05 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Pictures: Re: Cybex Data Reduction Computer?? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040724115552.008b5bb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040724231005.GC16830@bos7.spole.gov> On Sat, Jul 24, 2004 at 01:59:10PM -0700, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Very interesting box. That doesn't look like a standard AIM-65 keyboard. > Isn't the keyboard integrated into the board normally? That looks like the regular keyboard... what's different, I think, is how it's mounted. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 24-Jul-2004 23:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -80.5 F (-62.5 C) Windchill -124.8 F (-87.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 14.9 kts Grid 018 Barometer 664.5 mb (11217 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 24 17:57:26 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Commodore Pet ROM trouble... EPROM Substitutes... In-Reply-To: <20040723234346.40b04fcc.sastevens@earthlink.net> from "Scott Stevens" at Jul 23, 4 11:43:46 pm Message-ID: > That's called a 'Light Emitting EPROM' and it's an expensive and > short-lived alternative to an LED. Is this related to things like the SER (Smoke Emiting Resistor -- one where the power rating is massivle exceeded), SEC (Sound Emitinf Capacitor -- an electrolytic wired backwards), the Friode (a diode that's open-circuit both ways), etc? -tony From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Sat Jul 24 18:19:48 2004 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: DECmate III with a serial console? In-Reply-To: <20040724230302.GB16830@bos7.spole.gov> References: <5DA9ACD2-DD93-11D8-86F4-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> <20040724230302.GB16830@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: I know they require a keyboard and monitor to function as a word processor but is there any reason they need them to run OS/8 or OS/278? Is there some hardware reason that the keyboard and monitor are required for the 6120 to boot or is it just because of the software on the boot disk or in the boot ROM? On Jul 24, 2004, at 7:03 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Sat, Jul 24, 2004 at 01:03:20PM -0400, David Betz wrote: >> Rather than trying to >> acquire a keyboard and monitor I'm wondering if anyone has tried to >> replace the boot ROMs to allow either OS/8 or OS/278 to boot using a >> serial terminal connected to the serial port. Is that even possible? > > I haven't tried it, but AFAIK, all of that style of DECmates (II, III, > III+) > require a composite monitor (VR201) and an LK201-protocol keyboard. > > -ethan > > -- > Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 24-Jul-2004 > 23:00 Z > South Pole Station > PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -80.5 F (-62.5 C) Windchill -124.8 F > (-87.2 C) > APO AP 96598 Wind 14.9 kts Grid 018 Barometer 664.5 mb > (11217 ft) > > Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > From allain at panix.com Sat Jul 24 18:24:33 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: VCF East Pictures References: <3a5ac4$3va3u4@mxip12a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <005401c471d5$61574ae0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Here's my perhaps overengineered contribution to the "VCFe documentation project". http://www.panix.com/~allain/VCFe2/ The pictures sizes are all managed to keep d/l time small. Will add in links to large resolution next. John A. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sat Jul 24 18:43:54 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Pictures: Re: Cybex Data Reduction Computer?? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040724115552.008b5bb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <200407232316.QAA18904@clulw009.amd.com> <200407232316.QAA18904@clulw009.amd.com> <3.0.6.32.20040724115552.008b5bb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040724234354.GD16830@bos7.spole.gov> On Sat, Jul 24, 2004 at 11:55:52AM -0400, Joe R. wrote: > >Oh... a little tip - I have proven that the 6520 on the display board can > >be replaced with an 6821 (I have a number of 6821s since they were used to > >drive the printer port and the diagnostic display for the original COMBOARD > >model). > > That's good to know. Can a 6821 simply be dropped in it's place or does > it require any other changes? No changes required... just drop it in there. Same goes for a PET. > I've seen a lot of displays around that look like these. I should pick up > some for spares. They don't tend to fry, but they do get dim with age (as do all LEDs) -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 24-Jul-2004 23:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -80.4 F (-62.5 C) Windchill -125.7 F (-87.59 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 15.7 kts Grid 021 Barometer 664.7 mb (11208. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From vax3900 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 24 19:04:08 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Sparc Book 2 / 386 laptop give away In-Reply-To: <41029C44.8040005@rave.com> Message-ID: <20040725000408.15065.qmail@web51810.mail.yahoo.com> Do you consider to ship it to Cleveland, OH? The cost should not be too expensive since we are close enough. vax, 3900 --- Tad Bilby wrote: > Hello, > I am putting a Tadpole Sparc Book 2 "curbside" for > pickup Thurs. > morning unless anyone on the list would like to pick > it up. > Utica, MI > - > It was functional 6 mos. ago but now only the HD > light flashes when > the power switch is pressed. > - > The power supply is outputting the correct 18VDC. > - > I could not locate the component that was causing > the crowbar. > - > It has only been minimally disassembled. > - > I am also setting aside a "Zeos notebook 386" (16Mhz > 386sx, 5MB RAM, > 20MB HD). > - > It ran OS/2 2.1 perfectly back in 1993 and currently > has SCO Unix 3.2.4 > loaded. > There are no PCMCIA slots in this notebook. > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From vax3900 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 24 19:04:08 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Sparc Book 2 / 386 laptop give away In-Reply-To: <41029C44.8040005@rave.com> Message-ID: <20040725000408.15065.qmail@web51810.mail.yahoo.com> Do you consider to ship it to Cleveland, OH? The cost should not be too expensive since we are close enough. vax, 3900 --- Tad Bilby wrote: > Hello, > I am putting a Tadpole Sparc Book 2 "curbside" for > pickup Thurs. > morning unless anyone on the list would like to pick > it up. > Utica, MI > - > It was functional 6 mos. ago but now only the HD > light flashes when > the power switch is pressed. > - > The power supply is outputting the correct 18VDC. > - > I could not locate the component that was causing > the crowbar. > - > It has only been minimally disassembled. > - > I am also setting aside a "Zeos notebook 386" (16Mhz > 386sx, 5MB RAM, > 20MB HD). > - > It ran OS/2 2.1 perfectly back in 1993 and currently > has SCO Unix 3.2.4 > loaded. > There are no PCMCIA slots in this notebook. > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From vax3900 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 24 19:04:08 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Sparc Book 2 / 386 laptop give away In-Reply-To: <41029C44.8040005@rave.com> Message-ID: <20040725000408.15065.qmail@web51810.mail.yahoo.com> Do you consider to ship it to Cleveland, OH? The cost should not be too expensive since we are close enough. vax, 3900 --- Tad Bilby wrote: > Hello, > I am putting a Tadpole Sparc Book 2 "curbside" for > pickup Thurs. > morning unless anyone on the list would like to pick > it up. > Utica, MI > - > It was functional 6 mos. ago but now only the HD > light flashes when > the power switch is pressed. > - > The power supply is outputting the correct 18VDC. > - > I could not locate the component that was causing > the crowbar. > - > It has only been minimally disassembled. > - > I am also setting aside a "Zeos notebook 386" (16Mhz > 386sx, 5MB RAM, > 20MB HD). > - > It ran OS/2 2.1 perfectly back in 1993 and currently > has SCO Unix 3.2.4 > loaded. > There are no PCMCIA slots in this notebook. > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From brad at heeltoe.com Sat Jul 24 18:43:00 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: 2.10bsd on an 18 bit '11? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 24 Jul 2004 22:48:37 +0200." Message-ID: <200407242343.i6ONh0O12101@mwave.heeltoe.com> "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: >It probably works in small kernel configurations; 2.10 did not >have the 22B requirement 2.11 has. It will be slowish, though; >2.9BSD might be a nicer system on it, or Ultrix-11. I've been trying to find a unix which will allow me to use networking and a uda50 on an 11/34. I can get the uda50 w/2.10 but no networking (it wants split i&d). I think I have to settle for no networking on the 11/34, sadly. I found some interesting tcp apps for rt-11 but the the delua driver seems to be for a later version of rt-11 than I have. I wonder if anyone has ported the rt-11 delua driver back to the hobbiest versions? -brad From vrs at msn.com Sat Jul 24 19:25:08 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: DECmate III with a serial console? References: <5DA9ACD2-DD93-11D8-86F4-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> <20040724230302.GB16830@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <02fd01c471dd$d7982500$6700a8c0@vrshome.msn.com> From: "Ethan Dicks" > On Sat, Jul 24, 2004 at 01:03:20PM -0400, David Betz wrote: > > Rather than trying to > > acquire a keyboard and monitor I'm wondering if anyone has tried to > > replace the boot ROMs to allow either OS/8 or OS/278 to boot using a > > serial terminal connected to the serial port. Is that even possible? > > I haven't tried it, but AFAIK, all of that style of DECmates (II, III, III+) > require a composite monitor (VR201) and an LK201-protocol keyboard. I think it is probably possible, but it is just too much easier to get a keyboard and a monitor. There is arcane knowledge in the making of the boot ROMs :-). There is a keyboard (unbid upon) for $10+$10(shipping) on eBay as I write this. I also seem to recall finding a description of the pinout info needed to connect a monitor somewhere on the net. Vince From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sat Jul 24 20:28:41 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Applix 1616 Message-ID: <200407242128.42065.kenziem@sympatico.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Andrew Morton was the keynote speaker this year at the Ottawa Linux Symposium. During his introduction is was mentioned that he developed the Applix 1616 back in '85. Does anyone have pictures of one of these? - -- Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 Open Source Weekend http://www.osw.ca -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBAwzKLPrIaE/xBZARAi4HAKC6kp9V/C3i+BIHCVbWSRXKOMwgZgCeI1iz 1qBOUjLYYuLwlhySvMB9WwA= =xs1q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sat Jul 24 20:35:53 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: Obscure Parts.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On the topic of unusual devices, does anyone have and spare SED [sound emiting diode] or DED [dark emitting diode]. There were both advertised in EDN Magazine a long time ago [mid 1980's if I recall, note sure of the exact year, but it was probably sometime around April...] Cant seem to find any current manufacturers.... David. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell >>> Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 6:57 PM >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: Re: Commodore Pet ROM trouble... EPROM Substitutes... >>> >>> > That's called a 'Light Emitting EPROM' and it's an expensive and >>> > short-lived alternative to an LED. >>> >>> Is this related to things like the SER (Smoke Emiting >>> Resistor -- one where the power rating is massivle >>> exceeded), SEC (Sound Emitinf Capacitor >>> -- an electrolytic wired backwards), the Friode (a diode >>> that's open-circuit both ways), etc? >>> >>> -tony From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Sat Jul 24 20:36:00 2004 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:28 2005 Subject: DECmate III with a serial console? In-Reply-To: <02fd01c471dd$d7982500$6700a8c0@vrshome.msn.com> References: <5DA9ACD2-DD93-11D8-86F4-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> <20040724230302.GB16830@bos7.spole.gov> <02fd01c471dd$d7982500$6700a8c0@vrshome.msn.com> Message-ID: I'm sure I can find a keyboard and a VR201 monitor somewhere. I just think it would be cool to be able to run the machine across a serial link to a terminal or PC. Maybe I'll have to do some research on what sort of ROM it uses and try to get a dump of the ROMs in my remaining units. Sounds like a challenge to me! On Jul 24, 2004, at 8:25 PM, vrs wrote: > From: "Ethan Dicks" >> On Sat, Jul 24, 2004 at 01:03:20PM -0400, David Betz wrote: >>> Rather than trying to >>> acquire a keyboard and monitor I'm wondering if anyone has tried to >>> replace the boot ROMs to allow either OS/8 or OS/278 to boot using a >>> serial terminal connected to the serial port. Is that even possible? >> >> I haven't tried it, but AFAIK, all of that style of DECmates (II, III, > III+) >> require a composite monitor (VR201) and an LK201-protocol keyboard. > > I think it is probably possible, but it is just too much easier to get > a > keyboard and a monitor. There is arcane knowledge in the making of > the boot > ROMs :-). > > There is a keyboard (unbid upon) for $10+$10(shipping) on eBay as I > write > this. > > I also seem to recall finding a description of the pinout info needed > to > connect a monitor somewhere on the net. > > Vince > From stevew at ka6s.com Sun Jul 25 06:37:04 2004 From: stevew at ka6s.com (Steve Wilson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: B800 vs B1800, etc Message-ID: <41039B60.20208@ka6s.com> Well - to answer a series of questions ;-) There were two separate operating systems available for the B1000 series. There was the standard MCP (that was similar in operational characteristics between the B1000 and B2000 series at least) It didn't have a common code base, but things worked in a similar manner from the console (SPO in Burroughs speak.) The other OS was "CMS" and ran on the B800/B1000 series. CMS was from the Liege plant if I recall (Hans - is this right??) and I remember them showing up in Santa Barbara where we were bringing up the B1965 at the time. We had our MCP up with a couple of issues when the guys came in from Liege to bring up CMS. It had one issue which was a new instruction we'd added on the B1965 if I remember, other than that it came right up! So from my understanding you could run the same applications on the B1000 and B800 series. Now - difference between B18XX and B19XX. Mostly cost reduction and reimplementation in TTL. The B19XX may have been faster (a blistering 6Mhz ;-), likely had a larger memory sub-system, and I think they had the same size instruction cache. The B19XX machines had a 4Kbyte instruction cache. The difference between B1955 & B1965. Well you've all seen how BIG the B1955 was. The B1965 with soft console (which I LOVED working on...) is about the size of a group of desk drawers on a standard desk! Maybe 2.5 feet tall, 20 inches wide, and 24 inches deep. (Real guess on that -but it was a VERY small box.) It was every bit as capable as the B19XX chassis. The Disc Controller was reimplemented as 5 cards using an 8086. There were two data com options, the single line and Multi-line controller. The Multi-line controller was the only "DMA" device in the system and was also a 8086 based design. The soft console was an 8080 implementation. All this stuff had to be field testable/repairable so the soft console designer (Dick Mogia) went to considerable effort in having two paths to do everything. If the UART was dead, he had some 8255 parallel port bits that he could bang out the serial code needed by the console to show the problem through independent transistor drivers if the RS422 drivers were dead! It also controlled the the tape drive used by the system to IPL - the UART did double duty here. With the addition of the UART and a uP driving it, we found out just how bad the tape drives REALLY were. Up until then it was done with a state machine! There were really BAD parity error and tape errors that occured. The tape didn't last long! We had the same kind of issues as the B80's floppy! This was all revealed when we had something on there that could categorize the types of errors we were seeing! I had ALOT of fun working on the machine, and learned alot too! Steve Wilson From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Jul 24 21:44:19 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: CAPcard 9500 available Message-ID: <102.4ab7918a.2e347883@aol.com> Ive got two of these things. It's basically a complete socket 3 system board on a full length ISA board and runs independently from the host computer. They both have Pentium overdrives on them. How about $4 plus whatever it costs to ship. -- I am not willing to give up my liberties for the appearance of 'security' From donm at cts.com Sat Jul 24 22:12:41 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: Available: IBM 029 keypunch Message-ID: Spotted this on a newsgroup if anyone is interested. - don ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Path: chiapp18.algx.net!chiapp17.algx.com!chiapp19.algx.com!allegiance!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: Louis Krupp Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Available: IBM 029 keypunch Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 17:19:45 -0600 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <10g5rhsbv9rt0e2@corp.supernews.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, he MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 13 Xref: chiapp17.algx.com alt.folklore.computers:91028 Anybody looking for an IBM 029 keypunch? In the (presumably unlikely) event that anyone wants to come to Boulder, Colorado and get it, please let me know. (Soon, because it's going to be recycled.) It's been rained on, but it seems to be otherwise intact. I can find a home for the drum in the more likely event that no one wants the rest of the keypunch. Louis Krupp lkrupp * at * pssw * dot * com -- end of forwarded message -- From dan at ekoan.com Sat Jul 24 22:51:17 2004 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: HP 7200A plotter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040724234828.05a52b20@enigma> Hello, Sorry my response is so late... At 11:26 PM 6/28/04, Ashley Carder wrote: >I'll see if I can get some further information on this >plotter. Surely an HP plotter can't be this elusive! >My documentation does say HP 7200A. I've scanned a couple pages from a 1970 HP catalog and put them up at http://www.decodesystems.com/hp7200a.html I imagine this is the plotter Ashley has in mind. Cheers, Dan >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of auryn@gci-net.com >Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 7:01 PM >To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >Subject: Re: HP 7200A plotter > > >On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 18:49:30 -0400 > "Ashley Carder" wrote: > > Sorry, I don't have a picture of it. I've found > > reference to it > > by Google-ing, but only a couple of references. I do > > remember it. > > It was flat, sat on a table, was maybe 14" x 14" (a > > guess), and > > had little pens that you mounted in the "drawing arm" or > > whatever > > you want to call it. I have a page of documentation on > > how to > > use it from our 1978 computer center "user's guide". > >The only 72xx models that I am aware of are (ahem, >*were* :>) the 7225{A,B} and 7240/7245. But, the >724x was thermal so I assume that's not it. The >7225 matches your description, though -- ~14-15" square >desktop footprint... buttons across the front... > >--don From wacarder at usit.net Sat Jul 24 23:18:55 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: HP 7200A plotter In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040724234828.05a52b20@enigma> Message-ID: Yes, Dan, this is EXACTLY the plotter that we used back in the 1970s. Thanks for posting the pictures. If anyone ever finds one of these, I would be interested in getting it from them. So far this thing seems to be quite elusive. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dan Veeneman Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 11:51 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: HP 7200A plotter Hello, Sorry my response is so late... At 11:26 PM 6/28/04, Ashley Carder wrote: >I'll see if I can get some further information on this >plotter. Surely an HP plotter can't be this elusive! >My documentation does say HP 7200A. I've scanned a couple pages from a 1970 HP catalog and put them up at http://www.decodesystems.com/hp7200a.html I imagine this is the plotter Ashley has in mind. Cheers, Dan >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of auryn@gci-net.com >Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 7:01 PM >To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >Subject: Re: HP 7200A plotter > > >On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 18:49:30 -0400 > "Ashley Carder" wrote: > > Sorry, I don't have a picture of it. I've found > > reference to it > > by Google-ing, but only a couple of references. I do > > remember it. > > It was flat, sat on a table, was maybe 14" x 14" (a > > guess), and > > had little pens that you mounted in the "drawing arm" or > > whatever > > you want to call it. I have a page of documentation on > > how to > > use it from our 1978 computer center "user's guide". > >The only 72xx models that I am aware of are (ahem, >*were* :>) the 7225{A,B} and 7240/7245. But, the >724x was thermal so I assume that's not it. The >7225 matches your description, though -- ~14-15" square >desktop footprint... buttons across the front... > >--don From wacarder at usit.net Sat Jul 24 23:40:18 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: VT52s (was RE: HP 7200A plotter) In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040724234828.05a52b20@enigma> Message-ID: Dan, I see that you are looking for some DEC VT52 terminals. I have a few that I'm looking to get rid of. They're in various states of disrepair, but they are cosmetically sound. A couple of them power up with a flashing cursor, but they have problems with keyboard characters echoing, etc. Let me know if you're interested. I don't have the time right now to troubleshoot these terminals and they are taking up space. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dan Veeneman Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 11:51 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: HP 7200A plotter Hello, Sorry my response is so late... At 11:26 PM 6/28/04, Ashley Carder wrote: >I'll see if I can get some further information on this >plotter. Surely an HP plotter can't be this elusive! >My documentation does say HP 7200A. I've scanned a couple pages from a 1970 HP catalog and put them up at http://www.decodesystems.com/hp7200a.html I imagine this is the plotter Ashley has in mind. Cheers, Dan >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of auryn@gci-net.com >Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 7:01 PM >To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >Subject: Re: HP 7200A plotter > > >On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 18:49:30 -0400 > "Ashley Carder" wrote: > > Sorry, I don't have a picture of it. I've found > > reference to it > > by Google-ing, but only a couple of references. I do > > remember it. > > It was flat, sat on a table, was maybe 14" x 14" (a > > guess), and > > had little pens that you mounted in the "drawing arm" or > > whatever > > you want to call it. I have a page of documentation on > > how to > > use it from our 1978 computer center "user's guide". > >The only 72xx models that I am aware of are (ahem, >*were* :>) the 7225{A,B} and 7240/7245. But, the >724x was thermal so I assume that's not it. The >7225 matches your description, though -- ~14-15" square >desktop footprint... buttons across the front... > >--don From esharpe at uswest.net Sun Jul 25 00:17:15 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalkerchipsetsay?! References: <40220.217.196.231.101.1090415622.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> <40FF5D91.30303@verizon.net> <20040722123053.M84447@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <007001c47206$a61a05b0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> the one I was referring to as digitalker was the old national digitalker chipset..... it had a predefined vocabulary.... now from that vocabulary please construct most rude conversation you can imagine... Speaking of the above topic I just got a board from William that has this on it. Our first voice board we developed for the hp 1000/2000 used this chipset. we were fortunate to have a large group of the 1000/2100 prototype boards with the flag and interrupt areas roughed out in the corner... took some of the work out of the project.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Pemberton" To: Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 1:01 PM Subject: Re: What is the foulest thing you have ever made a digitalkerchipsetsay?! > In message <20040722123053.M84447@newshell.lmi.net> > Fred Cisin wrote: > > > Deborah Norling, who is blind and uses them much more than ANY of us, > > referred to the Votrax as sounding "like a Martian in a tin can" > > What about the General Instrument SPO256? You can just about understand what > it's saying if you listen to it a few times... > Anyone got some spare 3.12MHz crystals lying around? > > Later. > -- > Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, > philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI > ... ASCII and ye shall receive. > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 24 19:52:56 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: DECmate III with a serial console? In-Reply-To: <02fd01c471dd$d7982500$6700a8c0@vrshome.msn.com> from "vrs" at Jul 24, 4 05:25:08 pm Message-ID: > I also seem to recall finding a description of the pinout info needed to > connect a monitor somewhere on the net. It should be in the archives of this list -- I've posted it a couple of times. It will claim to be the info for a Rainbow, but the DECmate and PRO are almost identical (there are some differences if you use a colour monitor IIRC). -tony From hansp at citem.org Sun Jul 25 04:25:05 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: B800 vs B1800, etc In-Reply-To: <41039B60.20208@ka6s.com> References: <41039B60.20208@ka6s.com> Message-ID: <41037C71.9090406@citem.org> Steve Wilson wrote: > There were two separate operating systems available for the B1000 > series. There was the standard MCP (that was similar in operational > characteristics between the B1000 and B2000 series at least) It didn't > have a common code base, but things worked in a similar manner from the > console (SPO in Burroughs speak.) The big mainframes B5000, B6000 and B7000 also used the same MCP technology, indeed it was created for the B5500 > The other OS was "CMS" and ran on the B800/B1000 series. CMS was from > the Liege plant if I recall (Hans - is this right??) and I remember them > showing up in Santa Barbara where we were bringing up the B1965 at the > time. We had our MCP up with a couple of issues when the guys came in > from Liege to bring up CMS. It had one issue which was a new > instruction we'd added on the B1965 if I remember, other than that it > came right up! So from my understanding you could run the same > applications on the B1000 and B800 series. CMS is my baby ;-) It was a joint development between Downing town (B700/800/900) , Cumbernauld (B80/90) and Liege (B1000) The idea was to use the interpreter structure developed for the B1700 language implementations to define an "S-machine" layer to which all compilers generated code. Of course we could not use the B1700 S-machines directly, we had to design our own ;-) Those binaries were then executable on any system which implemented the S-machines. There was a separate interpreter for each language. The MCP was microcoded for each architecture though most utilities and all compilers were written in a high level language (MPL?) and were thus portable across all architectures. This was probably the first time a set of languages were implemented across vastly differing architectures using byte-code interpreters. Java before its time ;-) Regarding the questions on B800/B900 from a previous message, they were different beasties. The B800 was a development of the B700 architecture. The B900 was a multiprocessor system based on the BDS processor developed for the B80 in Cumbernauld. The B900 could have up to 8 processors. Some were dedicated to specific system tasks others were available for user programs. I recall many discussions on performance when Downing town said they could just add processors to speed up the workload, but many programs including compilers always took the same amount of time because they could not take advantage of the multiple processors. > I had ALOT of fun working on the machine, and learned alot too! Which goes for all the big B machines I worked on ;-) -- HansP From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jul 25 10:33:59 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: AT&T catridge Message-ID: I have a little white cartridge, roughly the same size as a Colecovision cart, that says "AT&T 510D BCT Intro/Training Cartridge, Issue 1:1985". I don't know what this goes with. Anyone? Speak up if you want this thing... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From Sharp51482 at aol.com Sun Jul 25 11:10:00 2004 From: Sharp51482 at aol.com (Sharp51482@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: AT&T catridge Message-ID: <1c7.1c2d1f24.2e353558@aol.com> These were for Terminals that AT&T made in the mid 80's. The terminals had a built in telephone set. There was a analog model for use with POTS lines and a digital model for use with System 75 and 85 PBX systems. If you have no use for it, I'd add it to my collection as I have several AT&T personal terminals 510A and D's. Another intresting feature of these sets was they were all equiupped with touch screens. In a message dated 7/25/04 11:36:18 AM, aw288@osfn.org writes: > I have a little white cartridge, roughly the same size as a Colecovision > cart, that says "AT&T 510D BCT Intro/Training Cartridge, Issue 1:1985". I > don't know what this goes with. Anyone? > > Speak up if you want this thing... > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > From tbilby at rave.com Sun Jul 25 12:18:24 2004 From: tbilby at rave.com (Tad Bilby) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: Sparc Book 2 / 386 laptop give away In-Reply-To: <20040725000408.15065.qmail@web51810.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040725000408.15065.qmail@web51810.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4103EB60.7020500@rave.com> We go to Cleveland frequently. Where could I drop it off? -- I would prefer to not have to ship these items. -- No personal data on the Sparcbook, but assuming it can be revived I had Solaris 1.0.1 (SunOS 4.1.2), Mosaic, gzip, ssh1, O'Reilly's book on Sendmail from 1997, etc. Tad SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: >Do you consider to ship it to Cleveland, OH? The cost >should not be too expensive since we are close enough. > >vax, 3900 > >--- Tad wrote: > > >>Hello, >>I am putting a Tadpole Sparc Book 2 "curbside" for >>pickup Thurs. >>morning unless anyone on the list would like to pick >>it up. >>- >>I am also setting aside a "Zeos notebook 386" (16Mhz >>386sx, 5MB RAM, 20MB HD). >>- >>It ran OS/2 2.1 perfectly back in 1993 and currently >>has SCO Unix 3.2.4 >>loaded. >>There are no PCMCIA slots in this notebook. >> >> >> From marvin at rain.org Sun Jul 25 13:09:11 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: Digital Control Handbook, First Edition Message-ID: <4103F747.A29C3640@rain.org> In going through a bunch of books I recently received, I found the 1967 first edition of the Digital Control Handbook. I almost missed it since the format was different from the later versions that I am used to seeing. From mike at corestore.org Fri Jul 23 18:48:52 2004 From: mike at corestore.org (Michael Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 (update) In-Reply-To: <92785.18.39.23.23.07.2004@osfn.org ([209.113.213.86])> References: <20040723161600.51BC73CF9@spies.com> <92785.18.39.23.23.07.2004@osfn.org ([209.113.213.86])> Message-ID: <1043.20.26.17.23.07.2004@ool-44c61990.dyn.optonline.net ([68.198.25.144])> On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 18:03:49 -0400 (EDT), you wrote: >> PLEASE! save this from the scrapper! > >I have decided to try. I have now talked with the owner of the system, and >he is quite nice and reasonable. So if anyone else plans on bidding: > >PLEASE LET ME KNOW. NOW. > >By the way, he really does mean 50 some terminals and 20 some printers! We >guesstimate at 7 skids of stuff. > >William Donzelli >aw288@osfn.org Go for it... I grabbed a large pdp-12 configuration, with software and manuals, plus a bunch of spares, including a complete spare CPU, last week, so my good Karma is adequate at present. I'd probably have had a hack at it if no-one else did, but if you know *anything* about Burroughs you know more than I do, so.... PS William: still haven't forgotten your LINC-8 hulk, still interested in pursuing that, would like to come and have a look some time. PPS anyone reading this: my pdp-12 is missing one vital feature, the tall, narrow green door that covers the I/O terminals etc. Anyone by any miracle got a spare? And, sorry for missing VCF-East; I screwed-up my dates, we only got back from vacation in Scotland on Sunday. I had planned to get back the weekend *before* VCF. Corestore will be out in force next year! PPPS Al: are we missing any important pdp-12 software or docs for bitsavers? Mike http://www.corestore.org 'As I walk along these shores I am the history within' From esharpe at uswest.net Sun Jul 25 14:29:50 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: Early timesharing (TYMSHARE) References: Message-ID: <00a701c4727d$c0bc9780$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> if a home is needed for this we can provide one here at the museum. thanks! ----- Original Message ----- From: "David V. Corbin" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 8:39 AM Subject: RE: Early timesharing (TYMSHARE) > I enter a YES vote! > > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jay West > >>> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 11:23 AM > >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > >>> Subject: Re: Early timesharing (TYMSHARE) > >>> > >>> FYI - I noticed last night I have a 3 ring binder full of > >>> documentation for using the TYMSHARE network. Is this of > >>> any interest to scan & archive? > >>> > >>> Jay > >>> > > > From esharpe at uswest.net Sun Jul 25 14:31:09 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: My VCF trip (long) References: <005901c46e93$2d7385d0$c93310ac@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <00b301c4727d$f05160c0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Yikes! Jay! Glad you made it though the tire episode intact.... Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 12:53 PM Subject: My VCF trip (long) > The Burlington VCF trip was my first VCF. I enjoyed myself immensely. Three > cheers for Sellam for putting in the work to organize the thing. I did talk > to Sellam a bit about possibly having a VCF central in St. Louis - I want to > bring my cherished HP2000/Access system. I refuse to cart that system across > the country to either coast, or even to KC :) Sellam, I'll be in touch to > discuss some stuff about seeing if we can have a VCF in St. Louis sometime. > The hotel (mariott) was wonderful, and it was so great to put a face with > the email address on so many of the people I've been talking to here over > the years. I will definitely make it to a few more VCF's, but hopefully with > less travel problems. > > Ah yes, so many have asked about "The Great Trailer Incident(tm)". Here's a > synopsis of my trip to VCF and what all went wrong - presented here entirely > for your amusement and as a lesson so that others (including myself) may > avoid my screwball missteps. > > I left St. Louis on Wednesday the 14th, about 8am. Drove non-stop to > Washington PA, about 600 miles and spent the night in the Red Roof. My van > was loaded with two HP racks, and in tow was a 5x8 flatbed trailer with two > more racks and a few 7906 disc drives. The van and trailer were handling > wonderfully. I checked the tires on the van before leaving Saint Louis, but > neglected to do that on the trailer. The trailer I had just gotten about 6 > or 7 months ago for $500 (because it included a PDP-11/45 on it at no cost). > It had driven back to St. Louis from TN just fine then. So anyways... > > I left Washington PA thursday morning to drive the remaining 600 miles to > burlington. I was about an hour or so from burlington, headed east on I-84, > just 4 miles from the massachusetts border when the tire blew and > disintegrated. I got out an looked and there was a few shreds of rubber on > the wheel, the majority of my tire being about 30 feet behind the trailer. > Pulled off the highway and pondered if a normal car jack would lift a > trailer that was pretty heavily loaded, or how I was going to possibly get > to the spare van tire with the van fully loaded, and if that tire might fit > the trailer, etc. etc. My adventure had begun. > > I called AAA and said "I'm not a member, but I'd like to be". They laughed > and said they wouldn't sign me up for membership AND place a help call at > the same time. How helpful. But they at least said they'd get me the phone > number for a service station in my area. I had virtually no cellphone > battery left. After getting transferred around to quite a few different > service stations, one finally had a human voice instead of an "I'm sorry, > we're closed" recording. Cool. Told them I needed someone to come out with a > certain tire, and where I was located. They said that because of the > location/highway I was on, I HAD to have police come out before they could > get out there. Huh? I told the guy I had no cellphone left, and would he > please call the police for me. He said sure. > > Almost two hours later, still no police. What fun. It was around 11pm by > then and I was getting pretty testy. So I called information, got the police > phone number. They said they weren't located in the area I was in, and would > transfer my call to another police station. Click... dead line. This > happened about 3 or 4 times. Apparently police stations can't transfer calls > without hanging up on people. So next call I got the original police station > to give me the phone number for the right police station. Wrote it down and > asked him to transfer me... click... hung up on again. So I dialed the other > police station directly. Fast busy. Waited a while, fast busy again. This > cycle repeats a few times. Finally called the original police station, he > transferred me and joy of joys this time it went through. The police officer > at the new station politely got all my information, location, etc... then > told me that I was talking to the Danbury police, which were on the entire > opposite side of the state of connecticut from where I was. They offered to > transfer me (ARGH!) to Troop A, who were in my area. The kind people at > Troop A said they didn't handle the area I was in, and transfered me to some > other Troop (F-Troop I suspect). When the transfer went through, I received > a recording "I'm sorry, but our offices are closed. Our normal business > hours are..." ARGH!!! So I called the original police station, again told > the guy where I was, that I had no battery left, and needed him to get > someone out there, then hung up. > > About an hour later, an officer pulled up behind me and asked what the > problem was. I suspect it was too DARK for him to see the SHREDDED TIRE at > his feet. I told him I wanted someplace to come out with a tire and replace > mine, or tow to a 24 hour service station, etc. He then politely asked why I > called the police, that I should have called a towing service. ARGH! That IS > how I started out, and the towing service told me to call the police first. > What fun. > > The officer informed me I had two choices. Leave the trailer, and come back > in the morning and get it with a new tire, or call for towing. I wasn't > going to pay towing to burlington, over an hour away. I couldn't get a close > hotel, because I had prepayed with late checkin for the mariott at > burlington. I didn't want to leave the trailer on the side of the road. But > not because of what the officer said... he asked what was on it (no, I > didn't jokingly say 'cocaine'). When I told him "antique computer gear" his > eyes got wide and he cautioned me about theives going up and down the > highway picking stuff off vehicles/trailers left behind. Of course I told > him that I wasn't concerned about general theives... I was concerned about > my fellow collectors who may also be driving into burlington along I-84 that > night, THEY would certainly stop and pick the trailer clean *GRIN* (just > kidding). I decided to leave the trailer, chain it with padlock to the guard > rail on the side of the highway, and drive the rest of the way into > burlington and deal with it tomorrow. I finally got to the mariott at about > 1am or so and the bed never felt so good. > > The next morning I got up, and drove the van to VCF so I could empty it out > and not haul that weight back to the trailer. As I was pushing gear in the > front door, I met Sellam and asked him if he could make sure the stuff made > it in the rest of the way, that I had a flat tire on 84, and had to go > retrieve it - so I'd be late to the show but would be there. Then I went to > sears just up the street from the service center, bought a tire, and headed > out an hour away on 84 in search of my trailer. Found the trailer, jacked it > up, grabbed the rim, and spent about 1/2 hour looking for a service station > that would put the new tire on the rim for me. Pulled in to something in > studbury? and the mechanic said no problem, fired up his tire machine, > and... *POOF*. Showers of sparks everywhere. His machine was not going to be > putting tires on rims anytime soon. So, he directed me to another garage a > few miles away. They got the tire on the rim just fine. As the mechanic put > the tire in the van, I asked "how much do I owe ya?" fully expecting the guy > would do it as a freebie, or maybe 5 bucks. No... he wanted 20 bucks - cash > only. At this point, money was no object, I was 100 miles away, missing a > computer show I drove 1200 miles (one way) to go to. GRRR. > > Drove back to the trailer, put the tire on and thankfully pulled away. Of > course, when I put the tire on I got the bright idea that perhaps I should > check the other tire on the trailer too. It was in really bad shape, > probably would have gone anytime soon. So I limped back to burlington, van > in tow, never exceeding 40 mph cause I didn't want the other tire to blow. A > few fellow highway drivers weren't particularly happy with me driving at > that speed, and made that point quite clear with various hand gestures wild > gesticulations. > > So when I got to VCF I unloaded the trailer, then dropped the trailer off at > sears so they could replace the other tire. Went to VCF and had a total > blast!! When I got into VCF, apparently the story of "The Trailer > Incident(tm)" had spread like wildfire and grown substantially. I think I > overheard one incarnation that involved my trailer being on fire and me > being put in jail. Hehee... amazing how a story grows through retelling. > Then much of the VCF folks went to Victoria's Station for dinner - where the > portions were huge and quite good! I had to leave during dinner to pick up > the trailer (Sears closed at 8), but then came back for some good > conversation and story swapping with my fellow classiccmp'ers. After dinner > I met in the lower parking lot of the marriott with Dan Cohoe, William > Donzelli, and Evan Koblentz. Was rather funny to see three vans pull up into > an empty parking lot, starting moving a bunch of "big boxes" between them, > then all go speeding off. Hummm. I got alot of really great DEC and DG > stuff. You would THINK this would be the end of the story. NOT! > > I had taken four empty HP racks to the show... and confirmed with all four > collectors before I left st. louis. Of course, at the show, one of the > collectors didn't show up at the show at all, and the other one apparently > left before I got there late friday (due to the above). So, I was stuck with > two large HP racks, sitting in Sun's building. I couldn't load them back to > my van, which was already full (and scheduled to get more at bobs and > bills). So I was scurrying around asking Sellam for any ideas for disposal, > etc. Finally Dan Cohoe stepped forward to help me out and took both racks. > One is still destined to go to the person who wanted it as they aren't too > far from Dan C. The other... well... haven't heard from that collector yet > :) Dan Cohoe - THANK YOU! > > I had to leave VCF a little early, because I had gear to pick up from Bob > Shannon in Leominster, then more gear to pick up from Bill Dawson in > Washington PA on the way back. Stopped at Bobs and loaded up, then headed > for Washington PA. After about 120 miles, I noticed I itched. I was getting > bug bites. I looked across the dash of the van, and there were flying ants > (or something like that) crawling over the entire dash, the seats, my legs, > etc. Apparently some of the gear I picked up at VCF or later had a low rent > housing project for these bugs going on inside of it. Opening all the > windows while going down the highway, and then (later) closing the van up > tight at night, seemed to get rid of them. > > It was pouring down BUCKETS of rain, and I had to pull off the highway > several times as visibility approached 10 feet. When I got to Washington we > loaded the Reality into the trailer, and inbetween breaks in the rain got it > all tied down and ready to roll. As I was laying on the ground underneath > the trailer hooking bungee cords up, Bill mentioned to me as an aside "Um, > you do realize you're laying in a bed of poisin ivy don't you?". I now have > the rashes to prove I did NOT have any idea. I got perhaps 2 miles from > Bills house before the trailer started fishtailing wildly. Cool! More fun! > So I pulled over again but this time couldn't see anything at all amiss. So, > I called Bill, and trouper that he was... he drove up to help. After > scratching his head a bit, he stood on the tongue of the trailer and found > the problem. A seriously negative amount of tongue weight. We were pretty > sure we had distributed the weight well (especially with the 11/34 up > front), but, apparently not as the power supply for the reality is built > into the bottom of the rack, and it is VERY heavy. So, I turned on the > emergency flashers and followed Bill to a nearby closed gas station that had > a large covered area. We spent the next hour and a half taking everything > off the trailer, re-organizing how it would go back on, retarping, tie-down, > and re-bungee'ing everything. Finally I was ready to continue home. The > thing drove great on the highway now and I settled in for a long, relaxing > drive back towards home - st. louis. There was really heavy fog around PA, > and just as I was settling down into "watching the miles tick by" mode..... > > Suddenly I see a large piece of scrap metal on the road in front of me. It > came out of the fog, was no way to avoid it. I patiently braced for the > dragging of metal, and my patience was rewarded with a wonderful shower of > red sparks going up both sides of the van, from the piece of metal being > drug under the van. Cool! All this fun, and a fireworks show for free to > boot! The metal looked like a piece of aluminum siding all crunched up, or > maybe part of a corrugated tin roof... something like that. I continued to > drive for about 500 feet, because the metal piece looked pretty > small/flexible and I figured it would work it's way out from under the van > in just a few feet. It didn't. So I pulled over on the shoulder and sat > there for a minute, contemplating what egregious sin I had comitted in a > different life that merited this amount of trouble. I was trying to figure > out just how (un)safe it was going to be, crawling under a van in the dark, > on a fast highway, trying to unwedge a piece of metal debris from under the > van. To my suprise, when I got under the van, there was no metal, and no > damage, in sight. Apparently the metal HAD come out just when I pulled over > to the shoulder of the road. > > The rest of the trip home to St. Louis was, in fact, totally uneventful :) > > Again, it was really great to meet the folks there at the show. Everyone was > most friendly, helpful, and it was just a plain blast to put a face with the > name, and just sit and chat with people about this hobby. Hopefully, people > won't hold my grumpy attitude the first day at the show against me, now that > they see just what my thursday night/friday morning was like! Well, I'm off > to sort through old email, the business cards I collected at the show... and > try to somehow get back to restoring some more of the machines in my > collection. VCF St. Louis anyone? > > Oh - by the way - if I had to do it all over again, with the same problems > as above, I would. VCF was THAT fun. However, next time I will be taking > along a spare tire for the trailer :> > > Regards, > > Jay West > > > > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From esharpe at uswest.net Sun Jul 25 14:32:25 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: ***Re: CDC Front Panel Overlay? References: Message-ID: <00bf01c4727e$1d601b60$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> wrote this guy but got no replay.,,, any idea what happened on this? thanks ed sharpe ----- Original Message ----- From: "O. Sharp" To: Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 5:25 PM Subject: CDC Front Panel Overlay? > > This came up in austin.forsale. It's not something I was looking for - > I'm not even all that clear on what it is - but someone else may be > interested. > > I've made their e-mail slightly less spambot-friendly as a public > service. :) > > -O.- > > From: kichline aaaat hotmail dawt com (Chuck Kichline) > Newsgroups: austin.forsale > Date: 17 Jul 2004 10:43:36 -0700 > Message-ID: > > I just picked up a front panel overlay for a CDC computer - 15x6 matrix > on mylar. > Just some sort of test overlay, does anybody want it before it gets trashed? > Chuck 218-0584 > > > From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 25 14:37:32 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: HP 7200A plotter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 25 Jul 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > Yes, Dan, this is EXACTLY the plotter that we used back in the 1970s. > Thanks for posting the pictures. > > If anyone ever finds one of these, I would be interested in getting > it from them. So far this thing seems to be quite elusive. I've got one but I'd like to hang on to it :( -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 25 14:40:26 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: AT&T catridge In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 25 Jul 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > I have a little white cartridge, roughly the same size as a Colecovision > cart, that says "AT&T 510D BCT Intro/Training Cartridge, Issue 1:1985". I > don't know what this goes with. Anyone? > > Speak up if you want this thing... Didn't AT&T have terminals with a carthridge slot? At any rate, I'll take it (and I'll let you know if it fits any of the AT&T terminals I've got ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bert at brothom.nl Sun Jul 25 16:09:04 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: vax 11/750 help Message-ID: <41042170.B648C773@brothom.nl> Hi All, Today I was trying to get my VAX-11/750 to work. I figured out how the baudrate for the console terminal is set (and what it is set to), but I cannot find any of the other parameters, such as the number of databits, parity, and number of stopbits. Can anyone here tell how these are configured or, if they are hard-wired, to what value they are set? Also, are the schematics for this machine available online somewhere? I did search for it a few times, but never found it. If not, is there someone who can make them available? TIA, Bert From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Jul 25 16:02:56 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: Off-Topic Fluke 4250 info wanted Message-ID: This is off topic but within the 10-year rule - and mercifully brief. Having searched the usual and various places, I am now casting a broader net for the manual, or just the programming protocol / connector diagram - for a Fluke model 4250A Programmable Power Supply. Thnaks in avdance.. John From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 25 16:05:29 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: IBM 029 punch in Colorado Message-ID: I've been speaking with Louis, the fellow who posted a message recently about an 029 punch in Colorado. He's a very terrific guy. Anyway, as much as I'd like to get an 029 punch for my archive, I don't have the space or the funds right now to acquire it. So that being said, is there anyone else in the Denver, Boulder, Fort Collins, Longmont, etc. area that can at least rescue this thing and hold it for someone (possibly me) for the short term? Louis said it was sitting in the rain but this thing ought to be able to take that just fine. Some parts will probably rust a little but that can be cleaned up with a little bit of labor on a nice Saturday afternoon. Please come forward if you can rescue this thing and/or want it. Louis can't promise that he can get the owner of the recycling facility to hold onto it for very long. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From Sharp51482 at aol.com Sun Jul 25 16:35:56 2004 From: Sharp51482 at aol.com (Sharp51482@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: Fwd: AT&T catridge Message-ID: <6b.2f0c934d.2e3581bc@aol.com> From Sharp51482 at aol.com Sun Jul 25 16:43:45 2004 From: Sharp51482 at aol.com (Sharp51482@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: AT&T Terminals Message-ID: <87.117622c1.2e358391@aol.com> These were for Terminals that AT&T made in the mid 80's.? The terminals had a built in telephone set.? There was a analog model for use with POTS lines and a digital model for use with System 75 and 85 PBX systems.? If you have no use for it, I'd add it to my collection as I have several AT&T personal terminals 510A and D's.? Another intresting feature of these sets was they were all equiupped with touch screens. From sti at pooq.com Sun Jul 25 16:45:13 2004 From: sti at pooq.com (Stirling Westrup) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: ISC 8001 giveaway. Message-ID: <4103F1A9.1912.AD6CEB0@localhost> I have an old ISC-8001 (Intelligent Systems Corp.) color graphics monitor to give away. Its currently just using up space in my basement, and I will gladly drive it to anyone in the Montreal area, or give it away to anyone who can figure out how to get it picked up from my house. For further information, you can look here: http://www.livejournal.com/users/swestrup/69465.html Oh, I should also point out that that image is not of my system (although mine looks just like it). My system doesn't have the disk drives. You can reply here or on the livejournal page, and I'll get your message. -- Stirling Westrup | Use of the Internet by this poster sti@pooq.com | is not to be construed as a tacit | endorsement of Western Technological | Civilization or its appurtenances. From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jul 25 16:56:37 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: AT&T catridge In-Reply-To: <1c7.1c2d1f24.2e353558@aol.com> Message-ID: > These were for Terminals that AT&T made in the mid 80's. The terminals had > a built in telephone set. There was a analog model for use with POTS lines > and a digital model for use with System 75 and 85 PBX systems. If you have no > use for it, I'd add it to my collection as I have several AT&T personal > terminals 510A and D's. Another intresting feature of these sets was they were > all equiupped with touch screens. OK, it looks like you get it. Email me off list with your address. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 25 17:12:23 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: IBM 029 punch in Colorado In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 25 Jul 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I've been speaking with Louis, the fellow who posted a message recently > about an 029 punch in Colorado. He's a very terrific guy. > > Anyway, as much as I'd like to get an 029 punch for my archive, I don't > have the space or the funds right now to acquire it. So that being said, > is there anyone else in the Denver, Boulder, Fort Collins, Longmont, etc. > area that can at least rescue this thing and hold it for someone (possibly > me) for the short term? > > Louis said it was sitting in the rain but this thing ought to be able to > take that just fine. Some parts will probably rust a little but that can > be cleaned up with a little bit of labor on a nice Saturday afternoon. > > Please come forward if you can rescue this thing and/or want it. Louis > can't promise that he can get the owner of the recycling facility to hold > onto it for very long. And I forgot to mention: in the meantime he's moved it (or will move it on Monday) under cover. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Jul 25 15:59:00 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: was: Early timesharing now: pilotage In-Reply-To: <20040723214535.E25568@newshell.lmi.net> References: <20040723214535.E25568@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20040725205900.GC3218@bos7.spole.gov> On Fri, Jul 23, 2004 at 10:01:47PM -0700, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > Never underestimate the bandwidth of a cargo plane full of tapes! > > That would be "never underestimate the bandwidth of a truck loaded > > with tapes, hurtling down the highway". > > hence the phrase "to paraphrase" to alter it to the cargo plane project. > > BTW, it is usually quoted as a "STATION WAGON full of tapes". The two variations I'm most familiar with are... "a station wagon full of magtape", and "a 747 full of CD-ROMs". I wish I had a picture of the time I hauled away a station wagon full of DEC RL02 cartridges. There were at least 30 in there. Never mind the primary use of the carts as boot media, etc., just the bandwidth alone compared to my 1200 bps modem (at the time) was pretty hefty. That, and, of course, the fact that I didn't _own_ a 300MB+ device that could _hold_ the data makes it more interesting. One of my buddies who used to run a monthly UNIX meeting/pizza gathering out of his house, worked at Bell Labs in Columbus from the mid-1980s through the late 1990s. Around 1986, he used to ferry a 300MB RM05-style disk pack back and forth a couple of times a week from Columbus to NJ on People's Express - it was about $35 each way, no reservation required. He was going to get paid the same if he sat on a plane or if he watched bits flow down the pipe, plus the data got there a whole lot faster. (I don't know how fast AT&T could move data internally from state-to-state at the time, but at 64Kbps, it would take at least 12 hours, not including any error correction or protocol overhead). One other "ship it" bandwidth story I heard from the late 1980s or early 1990s, a company with an office in the Asia-Pacific region wanted to move several megs a month of financial data back to the States. They asked their telecommunications provider what the cheapest way to do this was (over some trans-oceanic cable or satellite). When they looked at the amounts of data involved and the cost of even a 64Kbps pipe, it was determined to be fast enough, and a whole lot cheaper, to put the data on 8mm cartridges and ship 3 sets for redundancy. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 25-Jul-2004 20:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -94.3 F (-70.2 C) Windchill -136.1 F (-93.40 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.4 kts Grid 065 Barometer 658 mb (11466. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Jul 25 18:21:16 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: AT&T catridge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040725232116.GA14481@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Jul 25, 2004 at 12:40:26PM -0700, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sun, 25 Jul 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > > I have a little white cartridge, roughly the same size as a Colecovision > > cart, that says "AT&T 510D BCT Intro/Training Cartridge, Issue 1:1985". I > > don't know what this goes with. Anyone? > > > > Speak up if you want this thing... > > Didn't AT&T have terminals with a carthridge slot? Yes. I don't recall the models, but when I was at Lucent (1997-1999), there were a number of them lining the halls, waiting to be hauled away as scrap. At least one model I remember seeing had a portrait-mode CRT. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 25-Jul-2004 23:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -99.3 F (-73.0 C) Windchill -142.7 F (-97.09 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.6 kts Grid 059 Barometer 657.7 mb (11478. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Jul 25 18:22:28 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: vax 11/750 help In-Reply-To: <41042170.B648C773@brothom.nl> References: <41042170.B648C773@brothom.nl> Message-ID: <20040725232228.GA14708@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Jul 25, 2004 at 10:09:04PM +0100, Bert Thomas wrote: > Today I was trying to get my VAX-11/750 to work. I figured out how the > baudrate for the console terminal is set (and what it is set to), but I > cannot find any of the other parameters, such as the number of databits, > parity, and number of stopbits. Can anyone here tell how these are > configured or, if they are hard-wired, to what value they are set? ISTR you'll want 8N1. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 25-Jul-2004 23:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -99.3 F (-73.0 C) Windchill -142.7 F (-97.09 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.6 kts Grid 059 Barometer 657.7 mb (11478. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Jul 25 18:26:40 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: HP 1000 manuals References: <3.0.6.32.20040722162131.00920ce0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040724090654.00901e20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <004e01c4729e$d6bdd1e0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I was figuring you'd send them to Al Kossow for scanning. If you can do that, I'm sure he could turn them around pretty quick and get them back to you? Then I'm sure everyone would be able to get them from bitsavers. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 8:06 AM Subject: Re: HP 1000 manuals > Jay, > > Do you want to scan them? I'm still trying to get my system sorted out > and it looks like it's going to be some time before I can start scanning > stuff. > > Joe > > > > At 03:38 PM 7/22/04 -0500, you wrote: > >Ones I could use, downloadable PDF's from Al's site are fine.... > >> HP 2892A/12924A Card Reader Subsystem Diagnostic for HP 2100 Series > >Computers > >> HP 9866A/12566B Line Printer and Interface Diagnostic Rerference Manual > >> RTE-IV Assembler Reference Manual > > > >Jay West > > > > > From sti at pooq.com Sun Jul 25 18:32:57 2004 From: sti at pooq.com (Stirling Westrup) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: ISC 8001 giveaway. In-Reply-To: <4103F1A9.1912.AD6CEB0@localhost> Message-ID: <41040AE9.13054.B397050@localhost> On 25 Jul 2004 at 17:45, Stirling Westrup wrote: > I have an old ISC-8001 (Intelligent Systems Corp.) color graphics monitor to > give away. Its currently just using up space in my basement, and I will gladly > drive it to anyone in the Montreal area, or give it away to anyone who can > figure out how to get it picked up from my house. > > For further information, you can look here: > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/swestrup/69465.html > > Oh, I should also point out that that image is not of my system (although mine > looks just like it). My system doesn't have the disk drives. Well, *THAT* didn't take long. This item is now spoken for! -- Stirling Westrup | Use of the Internet by this poster sti@pooq.com | is not to be construed as a tacit | endorsement of Western Technological | Civilization or its appurtenances. From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Sun Jul 25 18:51:39 2004 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: Curt Vendel on TV! Message-ID: Maybe I missed when this was mentioned before, but Curt was just on TV on "That 70's Home" on HGTV showing off his collection of PONG games. Looking at the HGTV web site, there's no telling when it will be repeated. Try to keep an eye for it. Bill From technobug at comcast.net Sun Jul 25 19:25:10 2004 From: technobug at comcast.net (CRC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 11, Issue 47 In-Reply-To: <200407251700.i6PH05bZ094447@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200407251700.i6PH05bZ094447@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <40D65172-DE9A-11D8-9771-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> On 24 Jul 2004 at 21:35:53 "David V. Corbin" wrote: > On the topic of unusual devices, does anyone have and spare SED [sound > emiting diode] or DED [dark emitting diode]. There were both > advertised in > EDN Magazine a long time ago [mid 1980's if I recall, note sure of the > exact > year, but it was probably sometime around April...] > > Cant seem to find any current manufacturers.... > > David. A while back when the semiconductor industry wasn't so tight-assed, National Semiconductor used to throw gotchas in their adds; one being the DED. They even published a data sheets for their various putons (which I have tucked away somewhere - if I locate them, I'll put them on line). I remember their comment that from the same production line they were able to establish a 100% yield of LEDs and DEDs... DEDs were available for purchase along with WOMs (write only memories) - and there were takers ;D CRC From esharpe at uswest.net Sun Jul 25 19:32:15 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: Other new finds: MOD COMP Maintenance Panels References: <3.0.6.32.20040724115908.008b87b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <016101c472a8$0017abc0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> didn't modcomp build simulator computers... seems to be SEL modcomp? In my dim past seem to remember them as jet fighter simulator computers... nasa and space would not be too much of a reach from that! if you ever decide to part with it let us know. thanks ed sharpe archivist for smecc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 8:59 AM Subject: Other new finds: MOD COMP Maintenance Panels > I forgot to mention these yesterday but I also found two Mod Comp > Maintenance Panels. I'm not sure but it looks like these may have been made > specificly for NASA. I bought them from KSC. I've posted pictures at > > > Joe > > From esharpe at uswest.net Sun Jul 25 19:37:49 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: Booting real RT11 on a Heath H-11 References: <000a01c47075$5f0e8c50$ba02010a@LIFEBOOK> Message-ID: <019901c472a8$c71b64f0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> we will be watching this thread but please CC us on any discussing on this as we will soon be firing up our H 11... and yea it has the heath drives... I thought I saw some copies of rt 11 that were in the boxes that did not look heathkit specific but do not know if the guy ever got them running. ed sharpe archivist for smecc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Armstrong" To: Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 10:24 PM Subject: Booting real RT11 on a Heath H-11 > > I have a Heath H11A (LSI-11/2 CPU!) with the Heath WH-27 floppy > diskette drives. It boots and runs HT11 (Heath's crippled version of > RT11) just fine, but when I try to boot a real RT-11 v5 RX01 diskette it > just halts. I thought that the WH-27 was RX01 compatible. Am I wrong, > or is there some trick that Heath put in (maybe in the WH-27 boot ROMs?) > to keep it from working? > > Thanks much, > Bob Armstrong > > > From wacarder at usit.net Sun Jul 25 21:45:50 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: Good news on my RK05 drives Message-ID: I just wanted to give everyone an update on my RK05 adventures. Yesterday I received an RK11-D controller card set and backplane. I decided to be adventurous and install it in my 11/34. I surprised myself by getting it right the first time. I installed the 4-slot backplane with the cards and plugged it into the BA11-k's power plugs that were available under the bottom. Then I moved the terminator card from the last slot on my existing backplane to the last slot on the RK11 backplane. I then connected the two backplanes together with an M9202 unibus connector. I booted up fine, no unibus config errors. So far so good. Then today I decided to cable everything up to my two RK05J drives and see if I would be lucky enough to have a working drive (or two). I cleaned out the drives, making sure to remove any small particles of dust/foam/etc. I connected a unibus cable from the RK11 to the first RK05 (drive 0). I then connected another cable from drive 0 to drive 1 (the second Rk05 drive). I powered everything on to make sure that the drives still behaved correctly when I pressed the RUN button. They did. I then put an untested, but clean looking RK05 pack in drive 0 and attempted to access the drive with a little Basic-Plus program I wrote in my 11/34 RSTS/E system. Drive 0 seems to have problems reading, but does spin up and light the ON-CYL and READY lights. I need to watch the head when I attempt to do a READ and see if it's doing anything. Experts, does this sound like an alignment problem or something else? Drive 1 works perfectly and can read the pack just fine. I modified my program to read blocks in various positions on the pack (1st block, 100th block, 700th block, 1500th block, 2000th block, etc). It had no problems. Now I need to troubleshoot that first drive to try to determine why it is having problems reading. It spins up fine, but gets errors reading. I have not investigated any further. Thanks to Tony, Al, Ethan, Paul, Henk and others here who gave me advice and encouragement on this little adventure. It was pretty exciting to hook up some 30 year old drives to my 27 year old computer and get one of them to work! I guess St. Chad was there too! Ashley From bob at jfcl.com Sun Jul 25 22:24:06 2004 From: bob at jfcl.com (Robert Armstrong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: Booting real RT11 on a Heath H-11 In-Reply-To: <019901c472a8$c71b64f0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: <004d01c472c0$06524a00$ba02010a@LIFEBOOK> I've made some progress on this topic since my original post and the short answer is yes, you can run RT-11 on the H11. The WH-27 drives have some enhancements over real RX02s - in particular, the WH-27s can format diskettes (!!!) - and there's a switch on the front of the WH-27 for "Enhanced Mode" or "RX-01" mode. HT-11 (the Heath crippled version of RT-11) will only boot if the switch is set to "extended" (if you try to boot with it set to "RX-01", HT-11 tells you to change the switch and reboot!). I think Ethan asked how Heath/Digital prevented users from running HT-11 on a real PDP-11; I'd assume this is the way. If you set the switch to "RX-01" then you can boot real RT-11 (at least V4 and V5 - I've tried both) _provided_ that your diskette is a RX01. "RX-01" mode really means RX01, not RX02. But if you have a bootable single density RX01 floppy with the system handler set to the DX device, it will boot. My only mistake was that I was trying to boot RX02 media. This is doubly annoying because the WH-27 is double density capable, but only in "extended" mode. In fact, you can boot HT-11 (again, in "extended" mode) and do a directory listing of a double density RT-11 RX02 diskette, but you can't boot it in "RX-01" mode. Of course, the LSI-11/2 has no memory management so you can't run the XM monitor, but that's to be expected. Actually, I want to do something similar to Ethan's old boss, except that I plan to add a hard disk by using a Dilog DI-602 card. It attaches to a standard MFM disk and emulates a RL02 controller and, best of all, it's only a double module. It'll fit the backplane easily. The only problem is that the boot ROMs, which are on the WH-27 card, don't know how to boot a RL02. Any ideas? Bob -----Original Message----- From: ed sharpe [mailto:esharpe@uswest.net] Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 5:38 PM To: bob@jfcl.com; General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only Subject: Re: Booting real RT11 on a Heath H-11 we will be watching this thread but please CC us on any discussing on this as we will soon be firing up our H 11... and yea it has the heath drives... I thought I saw some copies of rt 11 that were in the boxes that did not look heathkit specific but do not know if the guy ever got them running. ed sharpe archivist for smecc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Armstrong" To: Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 10:24 PM Subject: Booting real RT11 on a Heath H-11 > > I have a Heath H11A (LSI-11/2 CPU!) with the Heath WH-27 floppy > diskette drives. It boots and runs HT11 (Heath's crippled version of > RT11) just fine, but when I try to boot a real RT-11 v5 RX01 diskette > it just halts. I thought that the WH-27 was RX01 compatible. Am I > wrong, or is there some trick that Heath put in (maybe in the WH-27 > boot ROMs?) to keep it from working? > > Thanks much, > Bob Armstrong > > > From vax3900 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 25 22:27:07 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: z8000 segment scheme question Message-ID: <20040726032707.11082.qmail@web51810.mail.yahoo.com> I picked up one of my computer books today and read that z8000 uses one 16 bit register to hold the 7 bit segment number and one register to hold the 16 bit offset. The strange thing is that the segment number is hold in position of bit 9-14 other than the bottom half of the first register. I goggled and found complaint about this scheme but no one explained why it was designed so. Could somebody on the list tell me why? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 25 23:05:50 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: Good news on my RK05 drives In-Reply-To: from "Ashley Carder" at Jul 25, 4 10:45:50 pm Message-ID: > Drive 0 seems to have problems reading, but does spin up > and light the ON-CYL and READY lights. I need to watch the head > when I attempt to do a READ and see if it's doing anything. > Experts, does this sound like an alignment problem or > something else? I'm not an expert, but... Maybe an alignment problem, maybe soemthing else. What you want to do is take a pack you don't care about the contents of, and attempt to format and verify it in drive 0 (this will erase everything on the pack). If this works, then the problem is radial alignment (head alignment) -- the drive can read/write correctly, but just not in the same place as other drives. If it fails, then there's something else wrong. Maybe head positioning, maybe the read/write board, maybe... You then need to do more troubleshooting, maybe with a'scope, while the drive is formatting/verifying to see just what is going on. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 25 23:09:39 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: Booting real RT11 on a Heath H-11 In-Reply-To: <004d01c472c0$06524a00$ba02010a@LIFEBOOK> from "Robert Armstrong" at Jul 25, 4 08:24:06 pm Message-ID: > Actually, I want to do something similar to Ethan's old boss, except > that I plan to add a hard disk by using a Dilog DI-602 card. It > attaches to a standard MFM disk and emulates a RL02 controller and, best > of all, it's only a double module. It'll fit the backplane easily. > > The only problem is that the boot ROMs, which are on the WH-27 card, > don't know how to boot a RL02. Any ideas? I seem to remember that if you configure RT11 with the RL11 handler (DL.SYS IIRC) and boot that (e.g. from RX01 floppies) you can then do a BOOT /FOREIGN DL0: to boot the RLs. Or of course you should be able to type in the RL02 bootstrap using console ODT, but that becomes a right pain fast! -tony From tomj at wps.com Mon Jul 26 00:23:46 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:29 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 In-Reply-To: <20040724030757.98FD23C88@spies.com> References: <20040724030757.98FD23C88@spies.com> Message-ID: <1090819425.4792.21.camel@fiche> On Fri, 2004-07-23 at 20:07, Al Kossow wrote: > > OK, so Burroughs machines were not the easiest things on the eyes THat's *ugly*?! Check out the Varian 620/i series. Vertical paddle switches are shaped like really ugly white teeth sticking out of an ugly square fake-woodgrain skull. Ugh. From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jul 26 01:23:19 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: IBM 9348-012 Message-ID: <4104A357.7060408@mdrconsult.com> Anybody have the docs for this drive, or know where I can find them? 9348 Customer Installation Guide: SA21-9567 9348 Service Information: SY31-0697 are the two that I'm looking for. Thanks! Doc From hansp at citem.org Mon Jul 26 02:56:19 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Burroughs B1955 In-Reply-To: <1090819425.4792.21.camel@fiche> References: <20040724030757.98FD23C88@spies.com> <1090819425.4792.21.camel@fiche> Message-ID: <4104B923.9030300@citem.org> Tom Jennings wrote: > On Fri, 2004-07-23 at 20:07, Al Kossow wrote: >>>OK, so Burroughs machines were not the easiest things on the eyes > THat's *ugly*?! Check out the Varian 620/i series. Vertical paddle > switches are shaped like really ugly white teeth sticking out of an ugly > square fake-woodgrain skull. Ugh. Bear in mind when the machine was developed : end of 60's beginning of 70's Its exterior may leave something to be desired aesthetically but the architecture inside is truly unique and interesting. -- HansP From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Jul 26 03:02:27 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Booting real RT11 on a Heath H-11 In-Reply-To: <004d01c472c0$06524a00$ba02010a@LIFEBOOK> References: <019901c472a8$c71b64f0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> <004d01c472c0$06524a00$ba02010a@LIFEBOOK> Message-ID: <20040726080227.GA14302@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Jul 25, 2004 at 08:24:06PM -0700, Robert Armstrong wrote: > Actually, I want to do something similar to Ethan's old boss, except > that I plan to add a hard disk by using a Dilog DI-602 card. It > attaches to a standard MFM disk and emulates a RL02 controller and, best > of all, it's only a double module. It'll fit the backplane easily. I have something similar, a DQ-614 I pulled from a DataRAM Qbus box. > The only problem is that the boot ROMs, which are on the WH-27 card, > don't know how to boot a RL02. Any ideas? What my boss did was to pull the floppy controller and use a BDV-11 bootstrap/terminator. It has the DL boot on it. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 26-Jul-2004 08:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -94.0 F (-70.0 C) Windchill -137.8 F (-94.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 11.6 kts Grid 080 Barometer 656.3 mb (11532. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From bert at brothom.nl Mon Jul 26 05:06:05 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Good news on my RK05 drives References: Message-ID: <4104D78D.EB0D1801@brothom.nl> Ashley Carder wrote: > > > I guess St. Chad was there too! Ah, that must have been the reason why I couldn't get anything making sense out of my VAX 11/750... ;-) Bert From lists at microvax.org Mon Jul 26 06:07:46 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (lists@microvax.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Computer history -- visiting the UK Message-ID: <2004072604274656-630523058@microvax.org> The pegasus isn't run any more - I was down there last month and I asked about it and the perfect Straight-8 they had. They don't have anyone to run them. The girl on the info desk gave me the email address of the computer curator and said they'd love to have someone around that could show them off on the weekends - i've still got to chase that one up! alex/melt ---- Original Message ---- To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts From: John Honniball Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:38:55 +0100 Subject: Re: Computer history -- visiting the UK In the Science Museum, look out for the "Making of the Modern World" gallery on the ground floor, towards the back. I think you go through the Space gallery to get to it from the main entrance, after you pass the steam engines. There's an Apple I, the Pilot Ace, a Cray-1 and the Pegasus. Not sure if/when the Pegasus is got up and running. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sun Jul 25 17:36:24 2004 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Anyone have/know of Persci drives, parts In-Reply-To: <200407252242.i6PMg8bc098382@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <200407252236.i6PMaOlp003031@ms-smtp-02-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Subject: Re: Anyone have/know of Persci drives, parts 1. There are no microcontrollers on the 270/277 series drives (I believe that there were on the later 299 drive) 2. The board has a huge amount of analog circuitry on it, both for the r/w head and the very complex servo system, and is not easy to troubleshoot. 3. None of the components on the board, including the 50 or so ICs, are socketed. No argument that the boards ultimately could be repaired, but it's not nearly as easy as your post suggests. Plus there are 4 other major but smaller boards on the drive in addition to the large main board. > I need some Persci 8" drives (model 270 or 277) and/or parts to repair them > for some systems. The part that I need most is the very large circuit board > on the right side of the drive. Anyone know of a source? [I'm sure that Are you actually missing this board? If not, then surely the existing one can be repaired to component level -- AFAIK the only custom part is an 8048 microcontroller, which presumably could be copied from one in a good drive (I don;t think the 8048 has any security features). -tony From dj.taylor at starpower.net Sun Jul 25 20:34:21 2004 From: dj.taylor at starpower.net (Douglas Taylor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: DEC AXV11 A/D Board Connector Pinout Wanted In-Reply-To: <41007B8E.5040301@nktelco.net> References: <6.0.1.1.0.20040713194627.01af5408@pop.starpower.net> <41007B8E.5040301@nktelco.net> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.0.20040725213310.01af8500@pop.starpower.net> Thanks to both of you, I happened to have that MicroPDP book but failed to look. BTW, it did say that there was no cabinet kit for the AXV11 so I guess you build your own.. Doug At 10:44 PM 7/22/2004, you wrote: >Douglas Taylor wrote: > >>As you can tell from the heading I have one of these boards. In the DEC >>Micronotes there are some simple programs that show you how to acquire >>data with it, however I don't know how you connect the board to outside >>sources for sampling,etc. Anyone have info? I think I saw something in >>the Vax 4000/200 manuals that talked about a cabinet kit for this board - >>a UDIP - does this ring any bells? >> >>Doug >> >The Micro PDP Handbook says that the connector is a 26 pin header. From >the layout it must be an 8 channel differential A/D or a 16 channel single >ended A/D. > >pin >1 ch0 >2 ch8 or return 0 >3 ch1 >4 ch9 or return 1 >5 ch2 >6 ch10 or return 2 >7 ch3 >8 ch11 or return 3 >9 ch4 >10 ch12 or return 4 >11 ch5 >12 ch13 or return 5 >13 ch6 >14 ch14 or return 6 >15 ch7 >16 ch15 or return 7 >17 analog ground >18 AMP (I don't know what that means) >19 external trigger in >20 digital ground >21 real time clock in >22 digital ground >23 DAC A return >24 DAC A out >25 DAC B return >26 DAC B out > > From bob at jfcl.com Mon Jul 26 08:30:01 2004 From: bob at jfcl.com (Robert Armstrong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Booting real RT11 on a Heath H-11 In-Reply-To: <20040726080227.GA14302@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <002401c47314$aa44eb00$ba02010a@LIFEBOOK> >> The only problem is that the boot ROMs, which are on the WH-27 card, >> don't know how to boot a RL02. Any ideas? > >What my boss did was to pull the floppy controller and use a BDV-11 bootstrap/terminator. >It has the DL boot on it. No can do - the BDV11 is also a quad module, which I guess didn't bother your boss since he'd already hacked up his H11, but I won't do that to mine! I could use a MXV11, but those are hard to find and I didn't want to "waste" one. Besides, I wanted to keep the WH-27. After all, it can _format_ diskettes!!! The coolest thing would be to reprogram the WH-27 ROMs and add a DL bootstrap. Being that it's a Heathkit and all, I'd assume that the ROMs are fairly well documented, but I haven't looked into it. BTW, I've scanned most of the H11 manual set if you missing anything. Bob From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Jul 26 08:33:36 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: vax 11/750 help References: <41042170.B648C773@brothom.nl> Message-ID: <16645.2096.288000.717089@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Bert" == Bert Thomas writes: Bert> Hi All, Today I was trying to get my VAX-11/750 to work. I Bert> figured out how the baudrate for the console terminal is set Bert> (and what it is set to), but I cannot find any of the other Bert> parameters, such as the number of databits, parity, and number Bert> of stopbits. Can anyone here tell how these are configured or, Bert> if they are hard-wired, to what value they are set? I don't know if they are settable. The DEC standard for as long as I can remember is 8 data bits, no parity, 1 stopbit for 300 baud and up, 2 stop bits for 110 baud. paul From tony.eros at machm.org Mon Jul 26 09:11:47 2004 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: VCF East Video? In-Reply-To: <005401c471d5$61574ae0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <200407261412.KAA51606@smtp.9netave.com> I thought I noticed someone videotaping the various VCF East sessions. Will this video be generally available? -- Tony From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Jul 26 09:14:31 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: IBM 029 punch in Colorado References: Message-ID: <007101c4731a$dfb806e0$69406b43@66067007> You had better luck than I did contacting him as I wanted to get it for the museum here in Houston. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Cc: "Bay Area Computer Collector List" Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 4:05 PM Subject: IBM 029 punch in Colorado > > I've been speaking with Louis, the fellow who posted a message recently > about an 029 punch in Colorado. He's a very terrific guy. > > Anyway, as much as I'd like to get an 029 punch for my archive, I don't > have the space or the funds right now to acquire it. So that being said, > is there anyone else in the Denver, Boulder, Fort Collins, Longmont, etc. > area that can at least rescue this thing and hold it for someone (possibly > me) for the short term? > > Louis said it was sitting in the rain but this thing ought to be able to > take that just fine. Some parts will probably rust a little but that can > be cleaned up with a little bit of labor on a nice Saturday afternoon. > > Please come forward if you can rescue this thing and/or want it. Louis > can't promise that he can get the owner of the recycling facility to hold > onto it for very long. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > > From root at parse.com Mon Jul 26 08:25:03 2004 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: PR-68 schematics posted Message-ID: <200407261325.JAA04335@parse.com> Hand reverse-engineered PR-68 paper tape reader schematics, and suggested PC parallel port interface design, are now available: http://www.parse.com/~museum/pdp-common/peripherals.html It's 1.5MB and PDF format. Cheers, -RK -- Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting, Books and Training at www.parse.com Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! From cmcnabb at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 09:30:34 2004 From: cmcnabb at gmail.com (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Just scored a CDI-1030 Message-ID: <145cecdd04072607302fe3c64@mail.gmail.com> The guy who surpluses old equipment in our warehouse gave me a call this morning. He had a CDI-1030 APL/ASCII portable acoustic thermal "teletypewriter" that someone had found in a closet, and wanted to know if I had a use for it. Upon physical inspection, the terminal is in great shape - no dents, dings, scratches, missing keys, etc. It is built into a very rugged (and heavy) samsonite suitcase and even had an unopened case of thermal paper with it. The Property ID numbers were no longer in the database, so it could not be surplussed through the normal channels (auction) since it could not be tracked. I could either take it or the surplus property guy would have to send it to the scrap yard. The decision was a no brainer, and I now have this old heavy thing sitting here in my cube. Now, how to explain this latest acquisition to a spouse who is already complaining about the amount of "junk" in the basement.... From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Jul 26 09:39:39 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Just scored a CDI-1030 References: <145cecdd04072607302fe3c64@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <410517AB.9020708@jetnet.ab.ca> Christopher McNabb wrote: > > Upon physical inspection, the terminal is in great shape - no dents, > dings, scratches, missing keys, etc. It is built into a very rugged > (and heavy) samsonite suitcase and even had an unopened case of > thermal paper with it. The Property ID numbers were no longer in the > database, so it could not be surplussed through the normal channels > (auction) since it could not be tracked. I could either take it or > the surplus property guy would have to send it to the scrap yard. The > decision was a no brainer, and I now have this old heavy thing sitting > here in my cube. > > Now, how to explain this latest acquisition to a spouse who is already > complaining about the amount of "junk" in the basement.... > No, dummy, you leave it in your cube and dial home for real computer access. :-) Ben. From cb at mythtech.net Mon Jul 26 09:53:01 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Motherboards Message-ID: >Hi Chris > >I will pay all shipping costs to the UK for the motherboards, please advise >if this is possible. > >Brgds > >Steve I'm guessing maybe this is directed at me (hard to tell when it is sent to a mailing list). If it is to me, the 386 and 486 motherboards I had available are all long since gone. None left. Sorry. -chris From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Jul 26 10:26:08 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Pegasus (was: Re: Computer history -- visiting the UK) In-Reply-To: <2004072604274656-630523058@microvax.org> References: <2004072604274656-630523058@microvax.org> Message-ID: <1090855568.9108.23.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 11:07, lists@microvax.org wrote: > The pegasus isn't run any more - ... which reminds me, someone recently asked me about Pegasus stuff at Bletchley, and I've gone and forgotten who you were! Oops. Identify yourself :-) I believe I have come across some odds and ends whilst poking around over the last few months, but don't recall exactly what. Getting things sorted for the CGE-UK this last weekend was generally occupying my brain the last few weeks (I'm sure Witchy will be making images available; a great time was had by all), but I should be up at the Park this coming weekend so can hopefully have a look to see what Pegasus stuff there is. cheers, Jules From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jul 26 10:32:39 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Curt Vendel on TV! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 25 Jul 2004, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > Maybe I missed when this was mentioned before, but Curt was just on TV > on "That 70's Home" on HGTV showing off his collection of PONG games. > > Looking at the HGTV web site, there's no telling when it will be repeated. > Try to keep an eye for it. That's a really old episode. Some of that footage was recycled for the "Hey Remeber!" video game episode. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Mon Jul 26 10:26:50 2004 From: trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (trash3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Booting real RT11 on a Heath H-11 Message-ID: <040726112651.13f94@splab.cas.neu.edu> doesn't the dilog controller have a bootstrap on it? Joe Heck From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jul 26 11:01:33 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: VCF East Video? In-Reply-To: <200407261412.KAA51606@smtp.9netave.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Tony Eros wrote: > I thought I noticed someone videotaping the various VCF East sessions. Will > this video be generally available? Tom Owad did the taping. I'm not sure when the video will go up, but the audio for the Friday talks is available now. You can get the first day's worth at Tom Owad's AppleFritter site: http://www.applefritter.com/ On the right side of the main page is a list of links. The second one down is for the Friday talks. I'm not sure when Tom will have the time to get the other material uploaded. He probably has it ready, but I'm sure there are bandwidth issues. Speaking of bandwidth issues, how much data can an ant carry? The little fuckers were streaming out of the data and phone port in my kitchen this morning. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From stephane.tsacas at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 11:06:48 2004 From: stephane.tsacas at gmail.com (Stephane Tsacas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: FS/FT : Fluke 9010A Message-ID: Hi all, I recently bought several Fluke 9010A. Some are running version 2, some are running version 3A which I beleive is the latest one. Is it easy to upgrade from v2 to v3 ? All I need is to copy the eproms ? They came without the "logic probe" can I build one myself ? Anything special about it ? I have something like 6 units, if someone is interested, drop me a mail. I'm looking for some pods: z80 at least. I'm in Paris, France, so the shipping cost can be an issue if you're not in Europe (except for the pods which are not so heavy). Thanks Stephane ps; I'm looking for someone on a 10 Mbit/s or faster internet access in Europe or US for a simple ftp throughput test. From lbickley at bickleywest.com Mon Jul 26 11:14:11 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: VCF East Video? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200407260914.11955.lbickley@bickleywest.com> On Monday 26 July 2004 09:01, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: ---snip--- > > Speaking of bandwidth issues, how much data can an ant carry? The little > fuckers were streaming out of the data and phone port in my kitchen this > morning. A LOT. I've seen them carry large quantities of bits. I've noticed from time to time chatting with you on the phone that your voice breaks up - now we know the source - the nasty li'l ant bit stealers. Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Jul 26 11:33:51 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: The Future of Bletchley Park & the computer museum - comments wanted! Message-ID: <1090859631.9108.92.camel@weka.localdomain> All, English Heritage spent a great deal of time recently surveying Bletchley Park (in particular buildings for which there was little information in the public domain, either due to the original information being lost or still classified) Said report and survey has now been published on the English Heritage website - see: http://tinyurl.com/45avu Importantly, comments are invited by English Heritage. Recently a response to this turned up in a newspaper local to the Park: http://tinyurl.com/4aqgo Some would say that currently the most "significant parts" of the site as projected to the public revolve solely around the Enigma, at the expense of everything else for which the Park has been known over the years. Lots of exhibits have already been scaled down and squeezed into much smaller premises; the military vehicles section is being demolished despite the part which such vehicles played in the war. The future of the Computer Museum and the rebuilt Colossus within H Block (and indeed the storage area within D Block) are very much uncertain, and a move to smaller premises is certainly not out of the question. Nobody seems to know the exact future of H Block but as it currently houses the museum and Colossus, and was the site of the world's first purpose-built computer room, to my mind it seems both the ideal location for its current occupants (with great scope for expansion!), plus a valuable bit of the UK's heritage which should not be lost, and also of great historical importance to the information age. (Note that as the whole site expanded during the war, D Block took on a lot of the work of the smaller Huts and so played a vital role, and C Block held an enormous Hollerith punched card section, so they are not without merit either; both currently lay almost derelict though) Realistically I'm not sure what anyone can do other than leave suitable comments for English Heritage about the importance which the Park played within the computing scene in order to ensure the survival of the huge amount of artifacts which we have. (Given the central location within the country my feeling is that it's also an ideal site for some form of national computer museum, but I don't know if that's relevant or not :-) I'm sure this will be of interest to UK residents on this list anyway, and quite possibly many of you further afield. (the less said about the way in which our current Government treats the heritage of this country the better, of course!) cheers, Jules From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Jul 26 12:09:57 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Still looking for.... (HP) Message-ID: <01de01c47333$6074a500$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Anyone know where I might obtain a functional complete HP 2645 terminal? Willing to pay or trade.... I'm starting to go through the huge piles of HP I/O cards I have too, look for spares to be posted to the list soon. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jul 26 12:51:30 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: VCF East Video? In-Reply-To: <200407260914.11955.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Lyle Bickley wrote: > On Monday 26 July 2004 09:01, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > ---snip--- > > > > Speaking of bandwidth issues, how much data can an ant carry? The little > > fuckers were streaming out of the data and phone port in my kitchen this > > morning. > > A LOT. I've seen them carry large quantities of bits. I've noticed from time > to time chatting with you on the phone that your voice breaks up - now we > know the source - the nasty li'l ant bit stealers. They can also carry quite a bit of current I've just found out. Earlier I sprayed some insect death into the ports without first disabling the ports on my hub and phone system. I didn't think there would be an arcing issue, and there wasn't. Well, I just went to clean out the carcasses with the tip of a pencil (duh) and it arced something fierce (ok, in relative terms, but enough to light up when the ants started to combust) when I was trying to brush the dead ant remains across the pins. The ant bodies were definitely conducting through the pins. The second jack was an analog phone port and it started smoking when an ant's body made contact between the tip and ring! Stupid critters. Fortunately there was no permanent damage. I just had to re-seat the digital line card in my PBX and all is well again :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From spectre at floodgap.com Mon Jul 26 13:26:09 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: VCF East Video? In-Reply-To: from Vintage Computer Festival at "Jul 26, 4 10:51:30 am" Message-ID: <200407261826.LAA16656@floodgap.com> > They can also carry quite a bit of current I've just found out. The ants in my apartment seem to be attracted to water sources (and the fact that the apartment is kept at an even 75 to 80 F because of the five Mac servers humming in the dining room). Gross story follows. A few years back when I was a medical student and calling in sick usually meant failing a rotation, I got a bad case of bronchitis while on the ENT surgery service and ran a fever of 102 F. Naturally, you have to be unresponsive and on a ventilator to get off sick (and even then you may have to make up the work), so I went in anyway after coughing up half a lung's worth of brownish-red phlegm in the sink (and since I was ill and fogged on cough medicine, I forgot to wash it down). That afternoon, I returned to find a trail of ants leading up to the loogie in the sink, and a ring of dead ants around it who had tried to eat the ball of sputum, failed, and died. I have not yet tried to market it, since it has an inconvenient method of procurement, and I'm not sure how well it would work in a spray can. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Don't be humble ... you're not that great. -- Golda Meir ------------------- From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jul 26 13:22:22 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Still looking for.... (HP) In-Reply-To: <01de01c47333$6074a500$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040726142222.00878620@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Jay, I have some HP 26xx terminals sitting around the warehouse but I don't know if any of them work. Can they be tested without hokking them to a computer? Joe At 12:09 PM 7/26/04 -0500, you wrote: >Anyone know where I might obtain a functional complete HP 2645 terminal? >Willing to pay or trade.... > >I'm starting to go through the huge piles of HP I/O cards I have too, look >for spares to be posted to the list soon. > >Jay West > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From coredump at gifford.co.uk Mon Jul 26 13:49:11 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Computer history -- visiting the UK In-Reply-To: <2004072604274656-630523058@microvax.org> References: <2004072604274656-630523058@microvax.org> Message-ID: <41055227.7050803@gifford.co.uk> lists@microvax.org wrote: > The pegasus isn't run any more :-( > I asked about it and the perfect Straight-8 they had. They have at least one more in the Large Object Store at Wroughton (an old airfield near Swindon). -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Mon Jul 26 14:27:00 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: VCF East Video? In-Reply-To: <200407261826.LAA16656@floodgap.com> References: <200407261826.LAA16656@floodgap.com> Message-ID: On Jul 26, 2004, at 11:26 AM, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Gross story follows. I think perhaps this comes under the heading of "You coulda talked all day and not said that" :^) dead ant dead ant dead ant dead ant dead ant dead ant dead ant dead ant (to the pink panther march) From kth at srv.net Mon Jul 26 15:11:59 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: VCF East Video? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4105658F.6040507@srv.net> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Lyle Bickley wrote: > > > >>On Monday 26 July 2004 09:01, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >>---snip--- >> >> >>>Speaking of bandwidth issues, how much data can an ant carry? The little >>>fuckers were streaming out of the data and phone port in my kitchen this >>>morning. >>> >>> >>A LOT. I've seen them carry large quantities of bits. I've noticed from time >>to time chatting with you on the phone that your voice breaks up - now we >>know the source - the nasty li'l ant bit stealers. >> >> > >They can also carry quite a bit of current I've just found out. > >Earlier I sprayed some insect death into the ports without first disabling >the ports on my hub and phone system. I didn't think there would be an >arcing issue, and there wasn't. > >Well, I just went to clean out the carcasses with the tip of a pencil >(duh) and it arced something fierce (ok, in relative terms, but enough to >light up when the ants started to combust) when I was trying to brush the >dead ant remains across the pins. The ant bodies were definitely >conducting through the pins. The second jack was an analog phone port >and it started smoking when an ant's body made contact between the tip >and ring! > > > OK; note to self: Stop using dead ants in circuits where fire or arcing might cause problems. >Stupid critters. > >Fortunately there was no permanent damage. I just had to re-seat the >digital line card in my PBX and all is well again :) > > > From ikvsabre at comcast.net Mon Jul 26 16:19:13 2004 From: ikvsabre at comcast.net (Joe Stevenson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Commodore 1541 disk drives for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200407261719130671.0216430E@smtp.comcast.net> Yes, tested and working...... I'll be happy to clean it (them) up; let me know what the best way(s) is(are) to do this, and consider it done. Also, it includes the serial and power cables. Joe *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 7/22/2004 at 6:32 PM Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Joe Stevenson wrote: > >> Hi guys, >> >> I bought a lot with a bunch of Commodore stuff, and it included a bunch >of 1541 drives. I only need 1 or 2, so I looking to sell off the rest. I >sold one on eBay for $20, so I figure that is a decent asking price. >> >> $20 each + shipping. > >Tested working and cleaned up I presume? Otherwise that is exactly an >eBay price (i.e. too high). > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Jul 26 16:40:57 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity In-Reply-To: <4105658F.6040507@srv.net> References: <4105658F.6040507@srv.net> Message-ID: I lost the power supply and motherboard of my Mac G4 - while living in India (where I bought it) - I was away from home for a long weekend; returning Sunday night I switched the machine on - it ran fine for a few minutes and then there came a very faint crackling noise - the monitor began doing subtly evil things as I was trying to figure out what the fsck was happening - then the nasty, acrid smoke started, followed by a resounding *crack!* from within, and all went black and expensively quiet. Attracted by something, a stream of medium-sized red ants were ascending the power cord and swarming into the fan grilles on the power supply - turning it on had blown sufficient quantities of them into the HV side to cause hymenopterous formicidae ionization and subsequent zapping of circuits not engineered to tolerate 220V 50Htz - namely the damn power-contoller / standby / 'sleep' chips... The motherboard I bullied the local Apple distributor into replacing - however, I had to agree to buy another PS... it was genuinely FUBAR. Cheers John 'Backdraft' Lawson From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Mon Jul 26 16:44:21 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Booting real RT11 on a Heath H-11 References: <004d01c472c0$06524a00$ba02010a@LIFEBOOK> Message-ID: <41057B35.BFFEC46E@compsys.to> >Robert Armstrong wrote: > Actually, I want to do something similar to Ethan's old boss, except > that I plan to add a hard disk by using a Dilog DI-602 card. It > attaches to a standard MFM disk and emulates a RL02 controller and, best > of all, it's only a double module. It'll fit the backplane easily. > > The only problem is that the boot ROMs, which are on the WH-27 card, > don't know how to boot a RL02. Any ideas? Jerome Fine replies: There are probably two simple options: (a) First boot the DX floppy which contains a DL.SYS device driver, then BOOT DL: While this method takes a bit longer than (b) below, at least you can see what you are doing. (b) A bit more direct is to copy the software boot block from block zero of the RL02 to block zero of the RX01 floppy. This will then complete the boot operation from the RL02 media. I would strongly suggest that you do this with a separate RX01 media which you use just for this purpose. By the way, Megan Gentry suggested this a while back. It is certainly a useful method to quickly substitute one boot hardware for another when the boot ROMs do not have the choice you want to use. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 26 16:33:39 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Anyone have/know of Persci drives, parts In-Reply-To: <200407252236.i6PMaOlp003031@ms-smtp-02-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> from "Barry Watzman" at Jul 25, 4 06:36:24 pm Message-ID: > > Subject: Re: Anyone have/know of Persci drives, parts > > 1. There are no microcontrollers on the 270/277 series drives (I believe > that there were on the later 299 drive) OK< I've only seen on Persci drive, that on my CASU Super C S100 system, and I can't remember what model it is. I do remember a 40 pin EPROM microcontorller (with a quartz window), which iIRC was an 8748. > > 2. The board has a huge amount of analog circuitry on it, both for the r/w > head and the very complex servo system, and is not easy to troubleshoot. I really can't believe it's impossible, or indeed any worse than many of the things I've worked on. From waht I remmeber, the servo circuitry is similar in concept to that in, say, an RK05 drive, and I've worked on those. > > 3. None of the components on the board, including the 50 or so ICs, are > socketed. None of the 1000+ ICs in my PDP 11/45 CPU (including the MMU and FPU) are socketed. This has not stopped me repairing it. Actually, I am not sure what benefits socketed ICs provide for troubleshooting/repair -- desoldering and replacing the faulty IC is not a major job, and you shouldn't need to remvoe ICs other than the faulty one (in other words troubleshooting should not consist of replacing ICs until the thing starts working). > > No argument that the boards ultimately could be repaired, but it's not > nearly as easy as your post suggests. Plus there are 4 other major but I will admit I've not worked on this model of drive. But I have worked on things of greater complexity -- without service information -- and got them going. I am darn sure this board can be repaired. > smaller boards on the drive in addition to the large main board. -tony From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Jul 26 17:49:35 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Booting real RT11 on a Heath H-11 In-Reply-To: <040726112651.13f94@splab.cas.neu.edu> References: <040726112651.13f94@splab.cas.neu.edu> Message-ID: <20040726224935.GA19109@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 11:26:50AM -0400, trash3@splab.cas.neu.edu wrote: > doesn't the dilog controller have a bootstrap on it? Not sure about Bob's, but mine doesn't - it presents an RLV11-compatible register set to the bus and uses the DL boot that you would find on a BDV-11 bootstrap/terminator or a KDF11-B CPU board. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 26-Jul-2004 22:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -94.0 F (-70.0 C) Windchill -137.7 F (-94.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 11.5 kts Grid 071 Barometer 656.5 mb (11524 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From cmcnabb at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 18:07:38 2004 From: cmcnabb at gmail.com (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity In-Reply-To: References: <4105658F.6040507@srv.net> Message-ID: <145cecdd04072616076474268a@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 17:40:57 -0400 (EDT), John Lawson wrote: > > Attracted by something, a stream of medium-sized red ants were ascending > the power cord and swarming into the fan grilles on the power supply - When we lived in florida we had to replace the outside part of our Air Conditioner due to just such an ant invasion. According to the A/C repair guy, he had replaced a lot A/C units that had been damaged by ants. apparantly, it is the insulation on the wires that they like. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jul 26 18:16:52 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, John Lawson wrote: > Attracted by something, a stream of medium-sized red ants were ascending > the power cord and swarming into the fan grilles on the power supply - > turning it on had blown sufficient quantities of them into the HV side to > cause hymenopterous formicidae ionization and subsequent zapping of > circuits not engineered to tolerate 220V 50Htz - namely the damn > power-contoller / standby / 'sleep' chips... What stupid fucking creatures. Good thing too. If they actually had any sort of intelligence they could take over the world. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jul 26 18:22:01 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Need Commodore 1702 monitors Message-ID: I need about half a dozen Commdore 1702 monitors for a display I'm helping a friend put together. It would be most convenient to just buy them outright since I use them quite a bit for exhibits and such. Does anyone have any they'd like to sell? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Jul 26 18:35:38 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity References: Message-ID: <019301c47369$41fd82f0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 7:16 PM Subject: Re: Insect Conductivity > On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, John Lawson wrote: > > > Attracted by something, a stream of medium-sized red ants were ascending > > the power cord and swarming into the fan grilles on the power supply - > > turning it on had blown sufficient quantities of them into the HV side to > > cause hymenopterous formicidae ionization and subsequent zapping of > > circuits not engineered to tolerate 220V 50Htz - namely the damn > > power-contoller / standby / 'sleep' chips... > > What stupid fucking creatures. Good thing too. If they actually had any > sort of intelligence they could take over the world. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival They do own the world, they just like the real estate under the ground more then above it. Unlike the dinosaurs and allot of other animals and vegetation the ants will survive just about anything short of an exploding earth. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Jul 26 18:28:05 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity References: Message-ID: <41059385.6030207@jetnet.ab.ca> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, John Lawson wrote: > > >> Attracted by something, a stream of medium-sized red ants were ascending >>the power cord and swarming into the fan grilles on the power supply - >>turning it on had blown sufficient quantities of them into the HV side to >>cause hymenopterous formicidae ionization and subsequent zapping of >>circuits not engineered to tolerate 220V 50Htz - namely the damn >>power-contoller / standby / 'sleep' chips... > > > What stupid fucking creatures. Good thing too. If they actually had any > sort of intelligence they could take over the world. > They do... They don't trust in computers, we do. :) From David.Kane at aph.gov.au Mon Jul 26 19:04:29 2004 From: David.Kane at aph.gov.au (Kane, David (DPS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: z8000 segment scheme question Message-ID: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080C53@email1.parl.net> The Z8000 segmented address scheme has two forms. The long form that you described uses two 16 bit values (registers or memory locations). The short form uses a single 16 bit value with the 7 bit segment number in bits 9-15 and an 8 bit offset into the segment in bits 1-8. Bit 16 of the first 16 bit value is a flag which indicates long or short segment address. This is important for memory addresses operands as the CPU can get an address word operand from memory, and then based on the flag bit can decide if the next word must be read to get the complete long address. In either case the segment address is located in the same place in either a short segment address or the first word of a long segmented address. David > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of SHAUN RIPLEY > Sent: Monday, 26 July 2004 1:27 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: z8000 segment scheme question > > > I picked up one of my computer books today and read > that z8000 uses one 16 bit register to hold the 7 bit > segment number and one register to hold the 16 bit > offset. The strange thing is that the segment number > is hold in position of bit 9-14 other than the bottom > half of the first register. I goggled and found > complaint about this scheme but no one explained why > it was designed so. Could somebody on the list tell me why? > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Jul 26 19:19:16 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: z8000 segment scheme question Message-ID: <200407270019.RAA20601@clulw009.amd.com> Hi If you guys are intending to build a Z8000 machine to run CP/M-8000, you should let me know. There are a couple hardware restrictions you should know about early on. Dwight >From: "Kane, David (DPS)" > >The Z8000 segmented address scheme has two forms. The long form that you >described uses two 16 bit values (registers or memory locations). The >short form uses a single 16 bit value with the 7 bit segment number in >bits 9-15 and an 8 bit offset into the segment in bits 1-8. Bit 16 of >the first 16 bit value is a flag which indicates long or short segment >address. This is important for memory addresses operands as the CPU can >get an address word operand from memory, and then based on the flag bit >can decide if the next word must be read to get the complete long >address. In either case the segment address is located in the same place >in either a short segment address or the first word of a long segmented >address. > >David > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of SHAUN RIPLEY >> Sent: Monday, 26 July 2004 1:27 PM >> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> Subject: z8000 segment scheme question >> >> >> I picked up one of my computer books today and read >> that z8000 uses one 16 bit register to hold the 7 bit >> segment number and one register to hold the 16 bit >> offset. The strange thing is that the segment number >> is hold in position of bit 9-14 other than the bottom >> half of the first register. I goggled and found >> complaint about this scheme but no one explained why >> it was designed so. Could somebody on the list tell me why? >> >> >> >> __________________________________ >> Do you Yahoo!? >> Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! >http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Jul 27 15:31:06 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity In-Reply-To: References: <4105658F.6040507@srv.net> Message-ID: <20040727003013.IBMW9492.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@wicked-fast> SNip! > power-contoller / standby / 'sleep' chips... > > > The motherboard I bullied the local Apple distributor into replacing - > however, I had to agree to buy another PS... it was genuinely FUBAR. You're lucky. Bugs is that conductive. I just had one Samsung monitor fixed by simply removing two fried asian beetles last friday. Cheers, Wizard > > > Cheers > > John 'Backdraft' Lawson > > > > > > From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Jul 26 20:54:13 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Still looking for.... (HP) References: <01de01c47333$6074a500$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <4105B5C5.30308@tiac.net> Um, we forgot to load a 2645 and a 2649, along with 3 keyboards, and 2 more RL-01 packs onto your trailer! Jay West wrote: >Anyone know where I might obtain a functional complete HP 2645 terminal? >Willing to pay or trade.... > >I'm starting to go through the huge piles of HP I/O cards I have too, look >for spares to be posted to the list soon. > >Jay West > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Jul 26 21:04:48 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Still looking for.... (HP) References: <01de01c47333$6074a500$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <4105B5C5.30308@tiac.net> Message-ID: <000701c4737e$18dee1b0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> oh mannnnnnnnnnnnnnnn I saw a single keyboard there, but it looked like there was no monitor and it was in bad shape so I didn't think it was usable :\ you got one that works and is in decent shape? I'll pay shipping!!!!!!!!!! Oh OH OH I want it! :> Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Shannon" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 8:54 PM Subject: Re: Still looking for.... (HP) > Um, we forgot to load a 2645 and a 2649, along with 3 keyboards, and 2 > more RL-01 packs > onto your trailer! > > Jay West wrote: > > >Anyone know where I might obtain a functional complete HP 2645 terminal? > >Willing to pay or trade.... > > > >I'm starting to go through the huge piles of HP I/O cards I have too, look > >for spares to be posted to the list soon. > > > >Jay West > > > >--- > >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > > > > > From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jul 26 21:33:46 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Various IBM PS/2 models available Message-ID: Is anyone interested in IBM PS/2 models? I have a bunch of various models available if anyone wants them for $10 each plus shipping: Model 50 Model 50Z Model 35 SX ...and some others. I'd rather they go to someone rather than be scrapped, which is what's going to happen to them by the end of the week. So make an offer if you're interested. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dvcorbin at optonline.net Mon Jul 26 22:22:57 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:30 2005 Subject: Various IBM PS/2 models available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Possibly interested in the 50Z. Do you have a complete inventory of the machine handy? Also any MCA slave processors? [e.g. GPIB (smart), DSP] David >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage >>> Computer Festival >>> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 10:34 PM >>> To: Classic Computers Mailing List >>> Subject: Various IBM PS/2 models available >>> >>> >>> Is anyone interested in IBM PS/2 models? I have a bunch of >>> various models available if anyone wants them for $10 each >>> plus shipping: >>> >>> Model 50 >>> Model 50Z >>> Model 35 SX >>> >>> ...and some others. I'd rather they go to someone rather >>> than be scrapped, which is what's going to happen to them >>> by the end of the week. >>> So make an offer if you're interested. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Sellam Ismail >>> Vintage Computer Festival >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> International Man of Intrigue and Danger >>> http://www.vintage.org >>> >>> [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade >>> Vintage Computers ] >>> [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at >>> http://marketplace.vintage.org ] >>> From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Mon Jul 26 22:16:14 2004 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Various IBM PS/2 models available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20040726231551.01f89700@pop-server> Where are they located? At 10:33 PM 7/26/2004, you wrote: >Is anyone interested in IBM PS/2 models? I have a bunch of various models >available if anyone wants them for $10 each plus shipping: > >Model 50 >Model 50Z >Model 35 SX > >...and some others. I'd rather they go to someone rather than be >scrapped, which is what's going to happen to them by the end of the week. >So make an offer if you're interested. From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Jul 26 22:56:56 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: PAGING Tom Ponsford ! Message-ID: Tom, Pse contact me at (650) 641-3115. I'm in Tucson, but can't seem to get a hold of you !! Thanks all, Fred From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jul 26 23:22:05 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Various IBM PS/2 models available In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20040726231551.01f89700@pop-server> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Gene Ehrich wrote: > Where are they located? Livermore, California. Ground shipping via UPS or Fedex (or even DHL) is available. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jul 26 23:22:46 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Various IBM PS/2 models available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > Possibly interested in the 50Z. Do you have a complete inventory of the > machine handy? Nope, but I'll take a quick look. If I have to test them then the price starts going up ;) > Also any MCA slave processors? [e.g. GPIB (smart), DSP] I doubt it... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon Jul 26 23:32:47 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: KA630 guru/tests? In-Reply-To: <200407270023.UAA28958@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200407270023.UAA28958@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <200407270440.AAA10181@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Now that I'm back on the list, by dint of unsub + resub (which I really should have thought to do earlier, rather than waiting against the time Jay finally emerges from the aftermath of VCF East).... I'm trying to build a KA630 emulator, more because I think it'll be fun and will teach me stuff than because I actually have a use for such a thing (there are plenty of good open-source VAX emulators out there already). I picked the KA630 because it's the only VAX implementation I have enough information on to even really attempt to build a simulator for. I dumped the ROMs from one of my KA630s (e/l/p/n:3fff 20040000, plus some postprocessing of the capture file) to get firmware. But the emulated VAX hangs at selftest step B. The manual I have (EK-KA630-UG-001) says this means that the IPCR is not working properly (probably broken Qbus electronics, on a real KA630), but it doesn't go into any significant detail. Furthermore, if I break to the simulator and manually advance it past the "blbc r0,." that it's hanging at, it continues, but ends up with an error at step 7 - apparently it can't find any working memory(!). Now, the manual could be simply wrong. I've found it lying (or, let me be charitable, "not matching the machine I have") at once already; it claims certain bits are write-only, but the ROM code depends on being able to read them. Or I could be mis-emulating the Qbus stuff. Or I could have a bug in the emulation of an instruction somewhere. So, I'm looking for either or both of (a) someone who's enough of a KA630 guru to help or (b) some kind of VAX instruction-set test suite, to help verify that I have the instruction emulations right. (I caught one instruction emulation bug already, quite by chance; there is surely at least one more.) Thoughts? /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 27 02:37:12 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Various IBM PS/2 models available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > > > Possibly interested in the 50Z. Do you have a complete inventory of the > > machine handy? > > Nope, but I'll take a quick look. If I have to test them then the price > starts going up ;) I have three Model 50 Z machines. Each has 9MB RAM and a 30MB HD. One of them has an external drive adapter. The Model 50 has 9MB RAM and a 20MB HD. The Model 35 SX has one SIMM in it but I don't know how much RAM (I'm not motivated enough to boot it up to find out). I didn't see a hard drive. $10 bucks each plus shipping saves these from evil shredder death. > > Also any MCA slave processors? [e.g. GPIB (smart), DSP] > > I doubt it... Nothing of the sort :( -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bert at brothom.nl Tue Jul 27 04:38:57 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Anyone have/know of Persci drives, parts References: Message-ID: <410622B1.21C03EC@brothom.nl> Tony Duell wrote: > None of the 1000+ ICs in my PDP 11/45 CPU (including the MMU and FPU) are > socketed. This has not stopped me repairing it. Actually, I am not sure > what benefits socketed ICs provide for troubleshooting/repair -- > desoldering and replacing the faulty IC is not a major job, and you > shouldn't need to remvoe ICs other than the faulty one (in other words > troubleshooting should not consist of replacing ICs until the thing > starts working). Say, for example, you have multiple open collector outputs connected to eachother, and for some reason the line is stuck at a certain level. Of course there are other possible ways, but I think it's quite handy to remove all connected ICs and find out which one keeps the line at said level. Or for example, the PSU prevents the supply voltage from coming up because the circuit draws too much current. A quick inspection by removing all ICs and reinserting them one by one is a convinient way to find out where the problem lies. If you know better ways than this I would really love to hear about it. Bert From dvcorbin at optonline.net Tue Jul 27 04:34:02 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Various IBM PS/2 models available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: For the price, I don't expect it tested, just a quick look to make sure it's not gutted [estimate of ram and disk would be handy] >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage >>> Computer Festival >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 12:23 AM >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>> Subject: RE: Various IBM PS/2 models available >>> >>> On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: >>> >>> > Possibly interested in the 50Z. Do you have a complete >>> inventory of >>> > the machine handy? >>> >>> Nope, but I'll take a quick look. If I have to test them >>> then the price starts going up ;) >>> >>> > Also any MCA slave processors? [e.g. GPIB (smart), DSP] >>> >>> I doubt it... >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Sellam Ismail >>> Vintage Computer Festival >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> International Man of Intrigue and Danger >>> http://www.vintage.org >>> >>> [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade >>> Vintage Computers ] >>> [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at >>> http://marketplace.vintage.org ] >>> From Pres at macro-inc.com Tue Jul 27 07:22:44 2004 From: Pres at macro-inc.com (Ed Kelleher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20040727081141.03319538@192.168.0.1> At 07:16 PM 7/26/2004, you wrote: >What stupid fucking creatures. Good thing too. If they actually had any >sort of intelligence they could take over the world. This is the 3rd time you've used the F word recently. It's entirely uncalled for (well, except maybe in the case of the TSA). A fine word, on occasion, but I don't think the occasion arises much on this list. I see it's use here more as juvenile posturing than effective communication. (not to be offensive, point being I think the less of you for it's use and others might also) Course, that could just be me, but I thought a comment was in order. :-) Ed Kelleher Proverbs 9:8 - wisdom test From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 27 09:23:28 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20040727081141.03319538@192.168.0.1> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Ed Kelleher wrote: > At 07:16 PM 7/26/2004, you wrote: > >What stupid fucking creatures. Good thing too. If they actually had any > >sort of intelligence they could take over the world. > > This is the 3rd time you've used the F word recently. > It's entirely uncalled for (well, except maybe in the case of the TSA). > > A fine word, on occasion, but I don't think the occasion arises much on > this list. > I see it's use here more as juvenile posturing than effective communication. > (not to be offensive, point being I think the less of you for it's use and > others might also) > > Course, that could just be me, but I thought a comment was in order. :-) I have yet to hear a rational reason why anyone should not feel free to use the words of their choosing. Because, after all, they are just words. > Proverbs 9:8 - wisdom test 9:12 is more appropriate. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jul 27 09:34:41 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: More HP microcode & loader rom detective work Message-ID: <005a01c473e6$da721b40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I'm finally digging into my 21MX E-series machines in earnest. In trying to inventory and document what all I may have, I've found a few things that stump me and my "docs on hand". Perhaps folks here can shed some light on these. Mostly I'm looking for "confirm or deny" on some points. Loader roms I can't positively identify: 11B5790X012 This is in a system that has microcode roms 18A0580X012,18A0580X022,18A0580X032 I'm guessing something third party, or perhaps a later rev of DS/1000 or loader extensions? I'm clueless on these. 1816-0420 No clue 12531LDR This is a hand written tag. Perhaps for loading from the teletype builtin paper tape reader? 1816-0769 No clue Microcode roms I can't identify: 1816-0996 1816-0997 1816-0998 1816-0999 1816-1000 1816-1001 93585-80006 93585-80007 93585-80008 18A0580X012 18A0580X022 18A0580X032 And lastly, I'm confused about FFP. I am guessing that FFP required FP, which is supposed to be standard on E series. But a few lines in various docs make me think that perhaps older rev E series didn't have FP built in. Some docs mention that when ordering FFP, you can specify option -100 to get some additional roms, necessary for E series machines with a serial number less than 21XX (co-incidence on the rev number). I'm guessing that the additional roms are FP? The roms in question are: 13306-80013 13306-80014 13306-80015 13306-80016 13306-80017 13306-80018 Can anyone confirm or deny this? Thanks! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jul 27 09:48:06 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1090939686.10189.119.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-07-27 at 14:23, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I have yet to hear a rational reason why anyone should not feel free to > use the words of their choosing. Respect for the views of others, presumably. If some words are commonly deemed to be offensive, then it's likely there are some people on this list who will find them as such. Based on that, if non-offensive alternatives exist then it only seems courteous to use them even if they do form part of your own regular vocabulary. That's my take on it anyway, and seems a rational enough reason to me... Of course if you *know* you're among company who won't get upset then it's a totally different matter! Thus endeth the lesson. etc. etc. Think of the children! sorry :-) seeya Jules From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Jul 27 10:22:04 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: More HP microcode & loader rom detective work References: <005a01c473e6$da721b40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <4106731C.8090501@tiac.net> Jay West wrote: > > >1816-0420 No clue > Paper tape. This is the 'fastest' easy way to bootstrap an HP 1000. Use this with a 12566 microcircuit I/O board, and you can load a 31K word boot image in less than 2 seconds, faster than many stock HP disk drives. Use this boot rom with the emulator I'm building for you. I'll supply a cable and jumper settings for the I/O card (gnd true). From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jul 27 10:04:55 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: More HP microcode & loader rom detective work References: <005a01c473e6$da721b40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <00af01c473eb$13b8bf40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I had written.... > Microcode roms I can't identify: > 1816-0996 > 1816-0997 > 1816-0998 > 1816-0999 > 1816-1000 > 1816-1001 OMG OMG!!! Are these the E series 2000/Access IOP firmware????? YESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????? --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jul 27 10:12:31 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Intel D82284 datasheet.. Message-ID: <1090941150.10189.130.camel@weka.localdomain> Anyone happen to have a copy of the Intel D82284 IC (18 pin DIL) datasheet? I think it's some form of clock generator IC; I have an 80286 board which uses one that I'm trying to fix and just want to verify that the system's clocking OK. cheers, Jules From dave04a at dunfield.com Tue Jul 27 10:38:57 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (dave04a@dunfield.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Can anyone identify this portable? Message-ID: <163840-220047227153857428@M2W095.mail2web.com> I have received an email from a gentleman asking if I can identify a portable computer that he used to own. The machines ran DOS (MSDOS), and appears to have a standard PC/XT style keyboard layout. It is a "box" machine line the early IBM portable or Compaq portable. It has a monochrome screen (CRT), somewhat to left of center. Left of the screen is "open space". To the right of the screen are three 1/2 height 5.25" drive bays running horizontally (on this machine it has a floppy, a hard drive and what looks like a filler plate). Below the drive bays there are four "knobs" and what looks like it may be a switch. On the far right (beside the knobs) it looks like they keyboard cable comes out of a hole in the front panel. I have posted the picture he sent at: http://www.dunfield.com/pub/portable.jpg Anyone know what this is? Regards, Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jul 27 10:45:44 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Intel D82284 datasheet.. In-Reply-To: <1090941150.10189.130.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1090941150.10189.130.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1090943143.10189.132.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-07-27 at 15:12, Jules Richardson wrote: > Anyone happen to have a copy of the Intel D82284 IC (18 pin DIL) > datasheet? duh, scratch that. I found an 82C284 version datasheet online a few mins later, which I assume is good enough... ta J. From lbickley at bickleywest.com Tue Jul 27 10:56:59 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200407270856.59122.lbickley@bickleywest.com> On Tuesday 27 July 2004 07:23, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Proverbs 9:8 - wisdom test > > 9:12 is more appropriate. Personally, I like Proverbs 9:10-12 :-) Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Tue Jul 27 10:57:21 2004 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's Message-ID: I saw this today on USA today website. I've been scanning 50 year old slides to CD's and I still have my older PDP-11 data backed up as paper listings and now on CD's. The NIST also has a paper on data longevity and storage suggestions for CD's and DVD's. http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2004-07-26-longevity_x.htm Mike. From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 27 11:07:51 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Can anyone identify this portable? In-Reply-To: <163840-220047227153857428@M2W095.mail2web.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, dave04a@dunfield.com wrote: > I have received an email from a gentleman asking if I can identify > a portable computer that he used to own. > > The machines ran DOS (MSDOS), and appears to have a standard PC/XT style > keyboard layout. > > It is a "box" machine line the early IBM portable or Compaq portable. > It has a monochrome screen (CRT), somewhat to left of center. Left of the > screen is "open space". To the right of the screen are three 1/2 height > 5.25" drive bays running horizontally (on this machine it has a floppy, > a hard drive and what looks like a filler plate). Below the drive bays > there are four "knobs" and what looks like it may be a switch. On the far > right (beside the knobs) it looks like they keyboard cable comes out of a > hole in the front panel. > > I have posted the picture he sent at: > > http://www.dunfield.com/pub/portable.jpg It's probably just a generic, no-name portable. Just a guess... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 27 11:11:53 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: <200407270856.59122.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Lyle Bickley wrote: > On Tuesday 27 July 2004 07:23, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > > Proverbs 9:8 - wisdom test > > > > 9:12 is more appropriate. > > Personally, I like Proverbs 9:10-12 :-) Then you have 9:13 - 9:18, and you wonder why anyone lends any credence to this stuff to begin with :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Jul 27 11:17:19 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Video encryption (was: Re: Dragon 64 fixing...) In-Reply-To: <40FEF41E.8030804@soulwax.co.uk> References: <40FEF41E.8030804@soulwax.co.uk> Message-ID: <307023d54c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <40FEF41E.8030804@soulwax.co.uk> Dennis Smith wrote: > i hear this is what made the old encryption / decryption method work for > analogue SKY boxes....... No. What you had with the Sky (well, actually News Datacom, now NDS - both Sky and NDS are part of News Corp) cards was: - A data packet that was transmitted in the Vertical Blanking Interval of the video, i.e. the first 30 or so image lines. This contained control commands for the smartcard - "enable Sky Movies", "Enable SkySports", "Disable everything", ECMs (countermeasures against pirate cards), etc. The packet also contains the "seed" that decrypts the video. - A CPU in the smartcard (allegedly based on an 8051) that decodes the commands, executes them, generates the cut points and stuff like that. - A CPU and some video storage circuitry in the decoder Now, when the decoder powers up, it communicates with the card and asks it to prove that it is a real Sky smartcard - this is done with a Fiat-Shamir zero-knowledge proof. NDS didn't implement all of the algorithm - one of the hacks exploited that. If the card passes the initial check, the decoder starts feeding it data packets and asking it for encryption seeds. The seed is used to set the cutpoints for each video line. Basically, the box switches between two FIFOs once per line. For example: |-\ /-----\ /\ ---| \- X ||| |_|----- Let's assume the X represents a cutpoint. Next we take that video line and swap over the two segments: |---\ /\ |-\ /-- ---| ||| |_|-------| \- OK, this is the encrypted video. The decoder does the same thing again - it loads half of the video line (up to the cutpoint) into one FIFO buffer, then switches over to the other. Data is pumped out of the second FIFO at the end of the line, then the output is switched back to the first FIFO. This rotates the image line around the cutpoint - hence the name "cut and rotate". This happens every single line until the keys rotate - the decoder picks up a VideoCrypt packet that basically means "Rotate the keys - give this to the card, it'll give you the next key seed". If the card has disappeared, the box no longer has the keys, so it can't decode the video. IIRC NDS also used "Spectrum Inversion" audio scrambling, too. This was enabled and disabled by the card - the card sent a command to the decoder to switch the spectrum-inversion descrambler on or off. This is incredibly oversimplified. Markus Kuhn did a lot of work on breaking Videocrypt - IIRC his website is somewhere on cl.cam.ac.uk - a Google search will reveal its current location. > one chip was in the card and the other 2 was > in the box - apparently the same 3 chips as in the dragon (don't ask me > how though - i don't know- i've never understood) Actually, the card chip was a secured 8051 derivative. The one in the decoder was a Motorola secure controller in most decoders. What surprises me is that I recited this lot from memory. I think I've got most of it right, but I'm not sure. There's bound to be an error somewhere :) Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Wanted a pair of watch dogs, named the pups Timex and Rolex. From hansp at citem.org Tue Jul 27 11:16:54 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Can anyone identify this portable? In-Reply-To: <163840-220047227153857428@M2W095.mail2web.com> References: <163840-220047227153857428@M2W095.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <41067FF6.7030007@citem.org> dave04a@dunfield.com wrote: > It is a "box" machine line the early IBM portable or Compaq portable. > It has a monochrome screen (CRT), somewhat to left of center. Left of the > screen is "open space". To the right of the screen are three 1/2 height > 5.25" drive bays running horizontally (on this machine it has a floppy, > a hard drive and what looks like a filler plate). Below the drive bays > there are four "knobs" and what looks like it may be a switch. On the far > right (beside the knobs) it looks like they keyboard cable comes out of a > hole in the front panel. > I have posted the picture he sent at: > http://www.dunfield.com/pub/portable.jpg > Anyone know what this is? The name Columbia comes to mind when I saw this photo. -- Hans From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jul 27 11:13:52 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Can anyone identify this portable? References: <163840-220047227153857428@M2W095.mail2web.com> <41067FF6.7030007@citem.org> Message-ID: <013c01c473f4$b5a7bd20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > > Anyone know what this is? Corona Data Systems perhaps... PPC? --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Jul 27 11:30:45 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20040727081141.03319538@192.168.0.1> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040727120631.04fd7ca0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Ed Kelleher may have mentioned these words: >At 07:16 PM 7/26/2004, you wrote: >>What stupid fucking creatures. Good thing too. If they actually had any >>sort of intelligence they could take over the world. > >This is the 3rd time you've used the F word recently...... [snip] Are the list archives working? I haven't checked - but if they are, give 'em a quick check - this issue usually comes up once a year or so, and you will see that Sellam in the past (and quite probably will be in the future, if I'm given a bit of latitude to /assume/ here...) has been completely unswayed by arguments posited to him to modify his particular (preferred? ;-) usage of the American language. My question is this: If you were offended enough by the word to use a euphemism in your response (and a bible quote as well), why didn't you star it out or otherwise mangle it in the reply above? ;^> Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Bugs of a feather flock together." sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Russell Nelson zmerch@30below.com | From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 27 11:37:13 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Can anyone identify this portable? In-Reply-To: <41067FF6.7030007@citem.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Hans B PUFAL wrote: > dave04a@dunfield.com wrote: > > > It is a "box" machine line the early IBM portable or Compaq portable. > > It has a monochrome screen (CRT), somewhat to left of center. Left of the > > screen is "open space". To the right of the screen are three 1/2 height > > 5.25" drive bays running horizontally (on this machine it has a floppy, > > a hard drive and what looks like a filler plate). Below the drive bays > > there are four "knobs" and what looks like it may be a switch. On the far > > right (beside the knobs) it looks like they keyboard cable comes out of a > > hole in the front panel. > > > I have posted the picture he sent at: > > > http://www.dunfield.com/pub/portable.jpg > > > Anyone know what this is? > > The name Columbia comes to mind when I saw this photo. That's quite plausible, but the Columbia Data Systems portables I have are far more squarish around the corners. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Jul 27 11:45:47 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: More HP microcode & loader rom detective work Message-ID: <200407271645.JAA21201@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jay West" > >I had written.... >> Microcode roms I can't identify: >> 1816-0996 >> 1816-0997 >> 1816-0998 >> 1816-0999 >> 1816-1000 >> 1816-1001 > >OMG OMG!!! Are these the E series 2000/Access IOP firmware????? >YESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????? > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > Hi Jay OK, take a deep breath. Explain what IOP firmware is? Dwight From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Jul 27 11:47:38 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's References: Message-ID: <16646.34602.652459.605358@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Mike" == Mike McFadden writes: Mike> I saw this today on USA today website. I've been scanning 50 Mike> year old slides to CD's and I still have my older PDP-11 data Mike> backed up as paper listings and now on CD's. The NIST also has Mike> a paper on data longevity and storage suggestions for CD's and Mike> DVD's. A good website to read if you want to see discussions on LONG term data storage is www.longnow.org. Aptly named -- their notion of "long" is way longer than anyone else's. paul From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Jul 27 11:50:17 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: More HP microcode & loader rom detective work Message-ID: <200407271650.JAA21205@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jay West" > ---snip--- > >And lastly, I'm confused about FFP. I am guessing that FFP required FP, >which is supposed to be standard on E series. But a few lines in various >docs make me think that perhaps older rev E series didn't have FP built in. >Some docs mention that when ordering FFP, you can specify option -100 to get >some additional roms, necessary for E series machines with a serial number >less than 21XX (co-incidence on the rev number). I'm guessing that the >additional roms are FP? The roms in question are: Hi again My understanding is that for the E series, the only difference between the E and the F is the additional firmware ROMs. My understanding is that you'd need the ROM expansion board. I hope you are going to make some binary files of all these ROMs. Maybe Al can make a directory to hold ROM images. Dwight From transit at lerctr.org Tue Jul 27 11:52:13 2004 From: transit at lerctr.org (Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: ants In-Reply-To: <200407271547.i6RFj3bb013133@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200407271547.i6RFj3bb013133@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: > > A few years back when I was a medical student and calling in sick usually > meant failing a rotation, I got a bad case of bronchitis while on the ENT > surgery service and ran a fever of 102 F. Naturally, you have to be > unresponsive and on a ventilator to get off sick (and even then you may > have to make up the work), so I went in anyway after coughing up half a > lung's worth of brownish-red phlegm in the sink (and since I was ill and > fogged on cough medicine, I forgot to wash it down). > > That afternoon, I returned to find a trail of ants leading up to the > loogie in the sink, and a ring of dead ants around it who had tried to > eat the ball of sputum, failed, and died. Ants have been known to go after other bodily fluids as well, with varying results.... From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Jul 27 11:52:47 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: More HP microcode & loader rom detective work Message-ID: <200407271652.JAA21209@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Bob Shannon" > > > >Jay West wrote: > >> >> >>1816-0420 No clue >> > >Paper tape. This is the 'fastest' easy way to bootstrap an HP 1000. > >Use this with a 12566 microcircuit I/O board, and you can load a 31K word >boot image in less than 2 seconds, faster than many stock HP disk drives. What data source are you using? I was thinking of connecting this board to the parallel port of my PC to make the PC look like an external drive. Dwight > >Use this boot rom with the emulator I'm building for you. I'll supply a >cable and jumper settings for the I/O card (gnd true). > > From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 27 11:52:20 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040727120631.04fd7ca0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that Ed Kelleher may have mentioned these words: > >At 07:16 PM 7/26/2004, you wrote: > >>What stupid fucking creatures. Good thing too. If they actually had any > >>sort of intelligence they could take over the world. > > > >This is the 3rd time you've used the F word recently...... > > [snip] > > Are the list archives working? I haven't checked - but if they are, give > 'em a quick check - this issue usually comes up once a year or so, and you > will see that Sellam in the past (and quite probably will be in the future, > if I'm given a bit of latitude to /assume/ here...) has been completely > unswayed by arguments posited to him to modify his particular (preferred? > ;-) usage of the American language. > > > > My question is this: > > If you were offended enough by the word to use a euphemism in your response > (and a bible quote as well), why didn't you star it out or otherwise mangle > it in the reply above? ;^> > > The whole discussion is ridiculous, if not entirely futile. Even if you were to star out one or certain letters, people still know what word you're referring to. So in effect, you're still using the word, because the understanding is there, and the actual word still pops into the reader's head and sends them into whatever apoplexy (or not) that they are prone to when stumbling across such words. Some people will argue that these sorts of words are only to be used in certain circumstances. Like they hold some super special value...like perhaps, they are sacred? What? I thought those words were profane? Sacred or profane? Which is it!? I say they are neither and both. God or Gawd or who the hell ever gave us free will, and He gave us these words to use and a mouth to emit them, god damn it! So I'm going to make full use of the Gifts that God Gave Me! When will this entirely way too priggish society we live in get over itself already? One of the most enlightening moments I've had in recent years was when Hans Franke was visiting a few years back. We were watching some show on TV (probably on Comedy Central) where some swear words were bleeped out. I, of course, having been raised in this obnoxiously Puritanical society, did not flinch. But Hans was like, "What!?" He was befuddled. Over what I did not know. I thought maybe he didn't understand the joke that was said. No, no, he understood the joke just fine. He was shocked--shocked!--that the curse word was bleeped! This distinctly American practice had been lampooned on German television, and he thought it was just the Germans poking fun at the uptight Americans. He was astonished that the practice was real and alive in the 21st century! I am too! Grow up already! You're an adult now. Mom will not be washing your mouth out with soap. You can really say these words! Really! Rejoice! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aek at spies.com Tue Jul 27 12:15:34 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: HP firmware Message-ID: <20040727171534.82FF03C65@spies.com> > Maybe Al can make a directory to hold ROM images. www.bitsavers.org/HP/ From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jul 27 12:20:08 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41068EC8.60706@mdrconsult.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Lyle Bickley wrote: > > >>On Tuesday 27 July 2004 07:23, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >> >> >>>>Proverbs 9:8 - wisdom test >>> >>>9:12 is more appropriate. >> >>Personally, I like Proverbs 9:10-12 :-) > > > Then you have 9:13 - 9:18, and you wonder why anyone lends any credence to > this stuff to begin with :) /me grabs the troll's bait one more time Sellam, while I'm not a Christian, and while in private I speak like the roughneck I am, I do think it's important to demonstrate respect for those around me. One of the best ways I know to demonstrate _disrespect_ for those around me is to belittle their spiritual beliefs. The smiley at the end of your comment just adds insult to injury. Doc From wolfgang at eichberger.org Tue Jul 27 12:20:22 2004 From: wolfgang at eichberger.org (wolfgang@eichberger.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer Message-ID: <200407271720.i6RHKMcu001535@everymail-A16-C02.everymail.net> Hi all, first I want to thank you for your nice and fast help with my Commodore Pet ROM problem. Now I have a little question for my personal Interest: There were many Eprom Programmers back when the 2532 etc. were actual which were designed for popular homecomputers (I own one for my Pet too and know of many for C=64). Many of these devices were "homebrewed gear" or sold as kits. But after lots of time googling around I haven't found much stuff about this old eproms. Okay, I have at least a bunch of datasheets and some schematics where ex. the 2532 were used and learned a lot of early 1980's hardware basics :) But I could not find some schematics (and software) of Eprom programmers dedicated to this chips. My (maybe dumb) question: Does anyone have some schematics and software (would be great) for a little homebrewed Eprom Programmer which works with a standard PC parallel-port or ISA slot? This would be a great project for rainy winter days :) Best Regards, Wolfgang ==================================================== Ing. Wolfgang Eichberger cell.: +43-664-240-65-92 http://www.eichberger.org email: wolfgang@eichberger.org ---------------------------------------------------- Gruentalerstr. 24 - 4020 Linz ? AUSTRIA ==================================================== From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Jul 27 12:19:36 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Insect wiring - language -> censorship... In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Jul 27, 04 09:52:20 am Message-ID: <200407271719.NAA10439@wordstock.com> And thusly Vintage Computer Festival spake: > > When will this entirely way too priggish society we live in get over > itself already? One of the most enlightening moments I've had in recent > years was when Hans Franke was visiting a few years back. We were > watching some show on TV (probably on Comedy Central) where some swear > words were bleeped out. I, of course, having been raised in this > obnoxiously Puritanical society, did not flinch. But Hans was like, > "What!?" He was befuddled. Over what I did not know. I thought maybe > he didn't understand the joke that was said. No, no, he understood the > joke just fine. He was shocked--shocked!--that the curse word was > bleeped! This distinctly American practice had been lampooned on German > television, and he thought it was just the Germans poking fun at the > uptight Americans. He was astonished that the practice was real and > alive in the 21st century! > Another example of that... There is a show called "Fashion Television", made by the independent TV station City TV, based out of Toronto, Ontario.. It features models walking down the runways showing off the latest fashions oftentimes with see-through tops or no tops at all. This was shown around 6PM on weekends.. But if you ever see it on American TVs, the good bits are all pixelated out. BTW, this show is unofficially known as Boob TV in Canada... 8-) Cheers, Bryan Pope From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 27 12:32:05 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: <41068EC8.60706@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Doc Shipley wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Lyle Bickley wrote: > > > > > >>On Tuesday 27 July 2004 07:23, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >> > >> > >>>>Proverbs 9:8 - wisdom test > >>> > >>>9:12 is more appropriate. > >> > >>Personally, I like Proverbs 9:10-12 :-) > > > > > > Then you have 9:13 - 9:18, and you wonder why anyone lends any credence to > > this stuff to begin with :) > > /me grabs the troll's bait one more time > > Sellam, while I'm not a Christian, and while in private I speak like > the roughneck I am, I do think it's important to demonstrate respect for > those around me. > > One of the best ways I know to demonstrate _disrespect_ for those > around me is to belittle their spiritual beliefs. The smiley at the end > of your comment just adds insult to injury. I think you're reading a bit too much into this. Anyone may have been offended by such a comment doesn't truly understand their spiritual beliefs. And rather than go into a tirade about why religion is at the root of the world's problems today (and be able to state such a case FACTUALLY) I'll just leave it at that. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Jul 27 12:38:18 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040727120631.04fd7ca0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040727131932.04e44368@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Vintage Computer Festival may have mentioned these words: Dude... Take a slow, long breath... in... out... ahh... now don't you feel better? ;-) (Or is it that you haven't had your morning coffee/tea/beer yet?) ;-) [snip] >The whole discussion is ridiculous, if not entirely futile.... That was my point. If you didn't notice, I was on *your* side, bud! (maybe I didn't make it fully clear, if that's the case, I apologize!) >When will this entirely way too priggish society we live in get over >itself already? If I'm allowed to /assume/ yet again, probably never. Which is sad, indeed. >He was shocked--shocked!--that the curse word was >bleeped! This distinctly American practice had been lampooned on German >television, and he thought it was just the Germans poking fun at the >uptight Americans. He was astonished that the practice was real and >alive in the 21st century! Did he mention anything about how we treat a Playboy book? In a brown or blue wrapper in the top shelf behind everything else so you can't see anything other than the title? Compare that to the German lifestyle where they're considered "coffee-table reading" for lack of a better term... >I am too! Me Too! ;-) >Grow up already! You're an adult now. Mom will not be washing your mouth >out with soap. If she does, I'm in *big* trouble, as she's either back from the dead, or I *am* dead[1]... Either way, I'd have a lot bigger problems than a sudsy belch! Laterz, bud... Roger "Merch" Merchberger [1] Unless I go to Hell instead. My mom was a great woman - if you believe in Heaven, I'll guarantee you she's there. However, if I do go to Hell, it won't be so bad... I'll be able to visit most of my friends! ;^> -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | A new truth in advertising slogan sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | for MicroSoft: "We're not the oxy... zmerch@30below.com | ...in oxymoron!" From nico at farumdata.dk Tue Jul 27 12:40:04 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Can anyone identify this portable? References: <163840-220047227153857428@M2W095.mail2web.com><41067FF6.7030007@citem.org> <013c01c473f4$b5a7bd20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <001c01c47400$c0e9db30$2201a8c0@finans> > > > Anyone know what this is? > > Corona Data Systems perhaps... PPC? > --- My guess too. The Corona portables were also OEM'ed to Philips. Nico --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.726 / Virus Database: 481 - Release Date: 22-07-2004 From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Jul 27 12:39:32 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: HP firmware Message-ID: <200407271739.KAA21273@clulw009.amd.com> Oops I'd forgot that he already had a place for them. These directories could use an index though :) Thanks Al Later Dwight >From: aek@spies.com > > >> Maybe Al can make a directory to hold ROM images. > >www.bitsavers.org/HP/ > From allain at panix.com Tue Jul 27 12:40:04 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity - language? References: Message-ID: <038b01c47400$c0b18d20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> The first big TV bleep I saw was a 1970's Saturday Night Live skit while I was doing summer work in what could be called a fundamentalist area of the country. It was Chevy Chase doing "Church of the Confused". They put up the "Experiencing Technical Difficulties" card and everything. Just zapped the whole segment after the first five seconds. Amusing more than shocking. I respected their choice and could live with it even though I really liked the skit. I knew I could just move elsewhere if it was important to see it, and that it wasn't that important anyway. Swearing was meant to offend, that's how it came into being. The reason some people get offended by swearing is probably the same reason some people get offended by censorship. Polite people get their word heard by both types of people, sounds like a plan. John A. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Jul 27 12:51:30 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <200407271720.i6RHKMcu001535@everymail-A16-C02.everymail.net> References: <200407271720.i6RHKMcu001535@everymail-A16-C02.everymail.net> Message-ID: <710f2cd54c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <200407271720.i6RHKMcu001535@everymail-A16-C02.everymail.net> wolfgang@eichberger.org wrote: > first I want to thank you for your nice and fast help with > my Commodore Pet ROM > problem. You're welcome :) > But after lots of time googling around I haven't found much stuff > about this old eproms. Okay, I have at least a bunch of datasheets and some > schematics where ex. the 2532 were used and learned a lot of early 1980's > hardware basics :) But I could not find some schematics (and software) of > Eprom programmers dedicated to this chips. My (maybe dumb) question: Does > anyone have some schematics and software (would be great) for a little > homebrewed Eprom Programmer which works with a standard PC parallel-port or > ISA slot? This would be a great project for rainy winter days :) Okay. You're going to need: 1x 4040 12-bit binary counter IC 1x 74LS573 tristate data latch 1x 74LS244 bus transceiver 1x 25V power supply 1x socket for EPROM 1x 25-way D-type connector + misc parts (protoboard, resistors, capacitors, etc.) The idea is that you use the 4040 to run the EPROM's address lines, then feed data in with the LS573, give the EPROM a program pulse, read the data back, then move on to the next byte. If you want a schematic, I can draw you one up later. Let me know off-list. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... (C)ontrol (A)lt (B)ye From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jul 27 13:14:54 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Now easier for people to get HP2000/Access up (was: More HP microcode & loader rom detective work) References: <200407271645.JAA21201@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <01bb01c47405$9e080240$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Dwight wrote.... > OK, take a deep breath. Explain what IOP firmware is? > Dwight Ok, I'll take a momentary break from my month-long happy snoopy dance to answer this :) HP released HP2000 Time Shared BASIC (TSB) in several versions. 2000A, 2000B, 2000C, 2000C', 2000E, 2000F, 2000F', 2000/Access, and 2000 System. These were basically just releases over time with more features, different hardware support, etc. All of the variants require TWO cpus to run, except 2000A and 2000E. However, 2000A (the first version) required some hardware that is pretty much impossible to find (fixed head disc's and drums for example). It wasn't very full-featured as to the BASIC language either. 2000E was a stripped down version and also lacked some nice BASIC features, and the E version also had an odd hardware limitation - I forget what it is, but, I think it was that it could only use 7900A disc drives which are fairly hard to find (ie. no support for 7905/6/20/25 drives). If you've only got one cpu though, (and no IOP firmware or MUX set, see below), 2000E is a great little system to run. The only hard part to find to run 2000E is the 7900 drive and the 12920/21 mux set. For the cpu you can use 2100 or 21MX/M or 21MX/E. All the other versions require two cpus. One cpu is the "system" processor and actually runs basic programs, talks to the disc drives and tape drives, etc. The other cpu is called the "IOP" (I/O Processor) and it's role in life is mainly to talk to the 12920/21 mux set (what you hook up all user terminals to) via custom firmware (IOP firmware). The IOP also handles nonsharable devices that users can use, except the 7970 (and for 2100 platforms, the 2748 paper tape reader) which is/are handled by the system cpu. Unsubstantiated rumor - I heard HP did the two processor approach with custom firmware in the IOP because the 2100 cpu wasn't fast enough to keep up with 32 terminals all doing 2400 baud. So they microcoded the 12920/21 MUX routines and dedicated a processor to just that. I suspect that over time, with the 21MX-E series, the cpu was now fast enough to handle the mux, but they were already entrenched in the "two processor, one with firmware" approach to change back to a single processor (this is strictly conjecture on my part). Bear in mind that microcode is specific to which cpu architecture you're using. For example, the Fast Fortran Processor microcode chip that you plug into a 2100A or 2100S will certainly not work in a 21MX M series or 21MX E series. The FFP for E series wont work in an M series, etc. because the binary representations of the same microorders is different. Years ago, after years of searching, I found the IOP microcode chips for the 2100, which allowed me to get my 2000/Access system up and running. However, to my knowledge it is the only 2000/Access system running anywhere, and I'd definitely like to see other collectors able to get one up and running. The 2100 cpu's are not at all common, and fairly cantankerous. Parts are quite scarce. So I went searching for the IOP microcode for the M series (because at the time, I knew HP made the IOP microcode for M series, but didn't think they ever made it for the E series). Finally Al Kossow found a source that had a couple IOP microcode boards for the M series - he got one and I got one. Of course, the M series machines are not all that common either. I wanted to be able to run (and I wanted many collectors to be able to run) 2000/Access on something easier to find hardware for, and the hardware would be easier to maintain. A few collectors have M series machines, some of them I have heard are not in running condition though. Others only have one - and it takes two. So I prepared to embark on a long project - porting the M series IOP microcode to the E series. There is a chart in the HP 21MX/E microprogramming book, showing the conversion bits between M series microcode orders and E series microcode orders. So I bought a WCS board, and was going to download the M series microcode via a prom programmer, modify the instructions in it from M microorders to the equivalent E microorders, and pray that the M series microcode didn't use any "M-Only" microorders and that there were no timing loops to worry about. I could test the code in the WCS board, and once it was working - burn it to proms for all to use. However, a while ago I heard that HP actually DID release the 2000/Access IOP firmware for the E series - but no one in the world seemed to have a set of those proms anywhere. Many classiccmp'ers and others have been searching for it. So I figured the microcode conversion project of the "in-hand" M IOP microcode to E IOP microcode was the best shot. I had just installed the WCS board a few days ago and was getting ready to dive into that project. Then at VCF... a kind soul who I shall ever be indebted to (Bob Shannon) gave me a FAB board (the board that holds microcode roms on the M/E {there's also the FEM board - better in my book}) in a box with a few other boards he didn't need. I didn't realize what the firmware chips were - but since it was coming from Bob, I figured they were probably DMI or FFP most likely. I was going through all my firmware last night trying to determine exactly what were in all the E series machines. I couldn't easily identify those chips (HP uses different part and product numbers for the same thing, so I didn't catch it). I got a list of all the unknown roms I had and posted it to the list. Minutes later, I decided to do a google search for one of the chips on the FAB board Bob had given me, and voila - it popped up on Al's site as the IOP firmware for the 21MX/E-series. So the Great Trailer Incident (and poisin ivy) was WELL worth it a thousand times over! What does this mean for collectors? Well, used to, getting a 2000/Access system up was a pretty insurmountable task, because you had to have 7900 drives (not common), not one, but TWO 2100 cpus (not common), the 2100 IOP firmware (not common, but obtainable - you could copy mine), and the 12920/21 mux set (not common). Pretty daunting task. Then when Al Kossow uncovered the IOP firmware for 21MX/M, you could do it with a 2108 or 2112 (still not real common, and you needed the other stuff). But now, with the discovery of the IOP firmware for 21MX-E series, the hardest parts are now somewhat trivial except the 12920/21 mux. With the E series roms now being found, here's what is needed to run 2000/Access: Two HP21MX E series cpus (common as dirt) IOP firmware for E series (copies are now available) One disc drive: 7900, 7901, 7905 (all uncommon), 7906 (common as dirt), 7920, 7925 (somewhat uncommon) 7970E mag tape (somewhat common) Processor Interconnect Kit (very rare - BUT - it's nothing more than four "grd tru +/- boards" and those are very common, plus two special cables that are rare, but could be made very easily) 12920/21 mux set (rare) Or, you can go for the 2000/E version still - less functionality but still a great system: One 2100, 21MX/M or 21MX/E 2748B paper tape reader 7900 disc drive 12920/21 mux set So now, more people will be able to find the hardware required. The ONLY thing that is still fairly difficult to find is the three board 12920/21 mux set. Now, if someone could just engineer a replacement with modern technology, then pretty much anyone who wants to could run versions of TSB. A future project of mine - modify TSB so that the 12920/21 mux isn't needed at all, but allow it to use baci boards, 12531/HSterm boards... all of which are common. I'll get there someday! Regards, Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jul 27 13:17:25 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: More HP microcode & loader rom detective work References: <200407271650.JAA21205@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <01c101c47405$f7a28be0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Dwight wrote... > My understanding is that for the E series, the only difference > between the E and the F is the additional firmware ROMs. My > understanding is that you'd need the ROM expansion board. No, the E and F series use different microcode - the architecture is definitely different. Backwards compatable, but definitely different under the hood. > I hope you are going to make some binary files of all these ROMs. Absolutely, unequivically :) > Maybe Al can make a directory to hold ROM images *points* Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jul 27 13:29:26 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040727120631.04fd7ca0@mail.30below.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040727120631.04fd7ca0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <1090952966.10189.138.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-07-27 at 16:30, Roger Merchberger wrote: > you > will see that Sellam in the past (and quite probably will be in the future, > if I'm given a bit of latitude to /assume/ here...) has been completely > unswayed by arguments posited to him to modify his particular (preferred? > ;-) usage of the American language. Actually, the origins of the word are quite old and convoluted. See: http://www.wordorigins.org/wordorf.htm (I had to go check as I wasn't sure if it was an American-English word that had slowly crept back across the pond or not) cheers Jules From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jul 27 13:23:55 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Can anyone identify this portable? In-Reply-To: <41067FF6.7030007@citem.org> References: <163840-220047227153857428@M2W095.mail2web.com> <163840-220047227153857428@M2W095.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040727142355.009df2c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:16 PM 7/27/04 +0200, you wrote: >dave04a@dunfield.com wrote: > >> It is a "box" machine line the early IBM portable or Compaq portable. >> It has a monochrome screen (CRT), somewhat to left of center. Left of the >> screen is "open space". To the right of the screen are three 1/2 height >> 5.25" drive bays running horizontally (on this machine it has a floppy, >> a hard drive and what looks like a filler plate). Below the drive bays >> there are four "knobs" and what looks like it may be a switch. On the far >> right (beside the knobs) it looks like they keyboard cable comes out of a >> hole in the front panel. > >> I have posted the picture he sent at: > >> http://www.dunfield.com/pub/portable.jpg > >> Anyone know what this is? > >The name Columbia comes to mind when I saw this photo. I don't think it's a Columbia. At least not one of their standard models. I used to own one and I've looked at plenty of others but none looked like this. Columbias were also well labeled. My guess is that's it's a clone. What does the BIOS copywrite message say? Joe > > -- Hans > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jul 27 13:30:51 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:31 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <200407271720.i6RHKMcu001535@everymail-A16-C02.everymail.ne t> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040727143051.009e4a70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:20 PM 7/27/04 +0200, you wrote: >Hi all, My (maybe dumb) >question: Does >anyone have some schematics and software (would be great) >for a little >homebrewed Eprom Programmer which works with a standard PC >parallel-port or >ISA slot? This would be a great project for rainy winter >days :) Why bother? You can buy them cheaply and easily, both new from the manufacturer's and used from E-bay. Yeah, Yeah I know someone will say it's an eductional thing but hanostly can't you find a better way to use your time than to reinvent the EPROM programmer for the 10,000th time? Joe > >Best Regards, > Wolfgang > > > > > >==================================================== >Ing. Wolfgang Eichberger cell.: +43-664-240-65-92 > http://www.eichberger.org > email: wolfgang@eichberger.org >---------------------------------------------------- >Gruentalerstr. 24 - 4020 Linz ? AUSTRIA >==================================================== > From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Jul 27 14:05:56 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040727143051.009e4a70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040727143051.009e4a70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200407271909.PAA14150@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> Does anyone have some schematics and software (would be great) for a >> little homebrewed Eprom Programmer which works with a standard PC >> parallel-port or ISA slot? > Why bother? You can buy them cheaply and easily, both new from the > manufacturer's and used from E-bay. Personally, because I'd know what the interface is like. (Also, for numerous reasons, I don't do ebay.) I'm sure eprom programmers with open and documented interfaces exist, but they seem awfully thin on the ground; everyone seems to be "oh, just use our [Windows] software and it all just works". After all, _everybody_ has a Windows box, right? > Yeah, Yeah I know someone will say it's an eductional thing but > hanostly can't you find a better way to use your time than to > reinvent the EPROM programmer for the 10,000th time? Not if it's fun. There are lots of things I do purely because they're fun, and I see no reason building a prom burner can't be one of them. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From allain at panix.com Tue Jul 27 14:15:09 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: KA630 guru/tests? References: <200407270023.UAA28958@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <200407270440.AAA10181@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <03e301c4740e$08f11d00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Some suggestions, since you haven't gotten any already. Use the SIMH papers directory http://simh.trailing-edge.com/papers.html to learn more about VAX architecture and simulation. An approach I might take would be to look at the ka655 sources, the difference between the KA630 and the ka655 here: "VAX Processor Chart", by Bob Supnik http://simh.trailing-edge.com/docs/vax_proc.txt And try changing the source. It Is Qbus BTW. Maybe all this is what you've done already... > Thoughts? Bob has published his email address. I would read up everything he's published first (in part because it's not too much, I haven't seen any books) and then if that information hasn't helped me already I would then bring him my question. Don't want to waste that guy's time. John A. From marvin at rain.org Tue Jul 27 14:18:35 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: Can anyone identify this portable? References: <163840-220047227153857428@M2W095.mail2web.com><41067FF6.7030007@citem.org> <013c01c473f4$b5a7bd20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <001c01c47400$c0e9db30$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: <4106AA8B.D4A4C06F@rain.org> This does not look like a Corona PPC-400. Also Corona would have had their name and model number of the machine. My vote is with Sellam in being a no-name portable. Nico de Jong wrote: > > > > > Anyone know what this is? > > > > Corona Data Systems perhaps... PPC? > > --- > > My guess too. The Corona portables were also OEM'ed to Philips. From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Tue Jul 27 13:50:09 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: KA630 guru/tests? In-Reply-To: <200407270440.AAA10181@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <000e01c4740a$8af1bd90$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > already). I picked the KA630 because it's the only VAX implementation > I have enough information on to even really attempt to build a > simulator for. A KA630 is a good choice, but there's plenty out there on the MicroVAX 2000/VAXstation 2000 (and they're based on the same CPU chip and don't have a Qbus to worry about) and the KA650/KA655. The same is probably true of the VAX-11/780/750 and 8600 ... just a few more learning exercises for later :-) > I dumped the ROMs from one of my KA630s (e/l/p/n:3fff 20040000, plus > some postprocessing of the capture file) to get firmware. But the > emulated VAX hangs at selftest step B. The manual I have > (EK-KA630-UG-001) says this means that the IPCR is not > working properly > (probably broken Qbus electronics, on a real KA630), but it doesn't go > into any significant detail. IIRC that's the dorrbell register. The uVAX II implemented it to allow for the possibility of multiple CPUs in one box. I don't think anyone really used it. You can find a description of it in the KA680 Tech Manual (EK-KA680-TM, available on all good Internets ...). It's almost certainly the same. Basically, some hardware somewhere (probably in the Qbus controller) will normally send the right reply. Since you have a KA630 you could try "SHOW QBUS" and see what it really comes back as, but 0x0020 is my guess. You need to handle accesses to the Qbus address where that register lives and make sure the right value is returned. > Furthermore, if I break to the simulator and manually advance it past > the "blbc r0,." that it's hanging at, it continues, but ends > up with an > error at step 7 - apparently it can't find any working memory(!). Did you remember to give it any :-) Exactly how does it die? I presume that some time ago it politely asked the memory controller for what might be happening and got "dunno" as the reply ... > Or I could be mis-emulating the Qbus stuff. Probably - there's more to the system that just the CPU chip. > Or I could have a bug in the emulation of an instruction somewhere. Almost certainly. > So, I'm looking for either or both of (a) someone who's enough of a > KA630 guru to help or (b) some kind of VAX instruction-set test suite, > to help verify that I have the instruction emulations right. > (I caught > one instruction emulation bug already, quite by chance; there > is surely > at least one more.) I'm no guru - I don't meditate enough :-) You could try asking Bob Supnik or Tim Stark what they used to stress-test their VAX implementations. I know that internally DEC used a tool called AXE which essentially ran random tests for ever on the target machine. Once you get as far as a console prompt, then booting OpenVMS or NetBSD (or VAX-Linux, soon) will presumably provide at least a first-level of comfort! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jul 27 14:34:23 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: 8" floppy project Message-ID: <4106AE3F.1090403@mdrconsult.com> I'm working on a PC-based external 8" floppy drive, mostly to be able to format the 30-40 pounds of perforated placemats (aka bulk-erased RX02 disks) in my garage, and to be able to archive the few PDP-8 and Xerox systems disks, games disks, diags and source disks I have, but don't have the equipment to run. I've discussed this in pieces here, but I'm ready to try to actually put it all together. The first order of business is an interface cable for a standard ISA floppy/IDE controller. I've found this pinout: http://tinyurl.com/5c5fb but no confirmation that it actually worked with a YD-180 drive, which is what I have available. Second issue is powering the drive. YE Data's schematics say +24VDC, max 1.0A, typical 0.4A, and 5VDC, max 1.0A and typical 0.4A. However, I've also found Usenet posts claiming a peak draw of 24VDC@2.2A and 5VDC@1.7A, so I'm inclined to be generous. I'm also not at all versed in electronics, so I'm not sure what to look for past those specs. Jameco has these units: http://tinyurl.com/3lpjc PWR SPLY,SWITCH(D-60B)58W, 5V@3A,24V@1.8A,UL/TUV/CE Jameco #123465 http://tinyurl.com/4whtu PWR SPLY,SWITCH,45W,5VDC@5A, 24VDC@1.8A,PFC,UL/CSA/CE/TUV Jameco #194870 http://tinyurl.com/6fpp9 PWR SPLY,SWITCH,65W,5VDC@6A 24VDC@2.6A,PFC,UL/CSA/CE/TUV Jameco #194896 http://tinyurl.com/64rml PWR SUPPLY,SW,65W,5V/7A, 12V/3.2A,2.4V/1.5A,MIN,LOADREQ Jameco #215706 Which is most suitable for an external floppy enclosure? If "none of the above", what am I missing? At the risk of heresy, right now I don't have time to be educated in the issues; just point me in the right direction and shove, please. :) BTW, I'll be more than glad to list and share the software I have. After it's archived, I'll be looking to give away the disks I can't use, or trade them for blanks. Thanks, Doc From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue Jul 27 15:22:42 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: 8" floppy project In-Reply-To: <4106AE3F.1090403@mdrconsult.com> References: <4106AE3F.1090403@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <200407271522.42432.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Tuesday 27 July 2004 14:34, Doc Shipley wrote: > I'm working on a PC-based external 8" floppy drive, mostly to be > able to format the 30-40 pounds of perforated placemats (aka > bulk-erased RX02 disks) in my garage, and to be able to archive the > few PDP-8 and Xerox systems disks, games disks, diags and source > disks I have, but don't have the equipment to run. I've discussed > this in pieces here, but I'm ready to try to actually put it all > together. Oh, one thing to remember... RX01's use single-density (FM) encoding, and RX02's use a mixed-density (FM for sector headers + MFM for data) encoding. You won't be able to read RX02's for sure (and probably also RX01s due to their header format) on a PC's floppy disk controller. Somethink like a CatWeasel or other similar controller probably could do the trick, or you could build your own disk controller. :) Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jul 27 15:32:46 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: Amiga CatWeasel? Was: Re: 8" floppy project In-Reply-To: <200407271522.42432.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <4106AE3F.1090403@mdrconsult.com> <200407271522.42432.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <4106BBEE.4090202@mdrconsult.com> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Tuesday 27 July 2004 14:34, Doc Shipley wrote: > >> I'm working on a PC-based external 8" floppy drive, mostly to be >>able to format the 30-40 pounds of perforated placemats (aka >>bulk-erased RX02 disks) in my garage, and to be able to archive the >>few PDP-8 and Xerox systems disks, games disks, diags and source >>disks I have, but don't have the equipment to run. I've discussed >>this in pieces here, but I'm ready to try to actually put it all >>together. > > Somethink like a CatWeasel or other similar controller probably could do > the trick, or you could build your own disk controller. :) So is there an RX0x driver for the Amiga CatWeasel? I have an S-class CatWeasel, but I haven't done much more than glance through the docs. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Jul 27 15:07:14 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: KA630 guru/tests? In-Reply-To: <000e01c4740a$8af1bd90$5b01a8c0@flexpc> References: <000e01c4740a$8af1bd90$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <200407272038.QAA14638@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> But the emulated VAX hangs at selftest step B. The manual I have >> (EK-KA630-UG-001) says this means that the IPCR is not working > IIRC that's the dorrbell register. Right. > The uVAX II implemented it to allow for the possibility of multiple > CPUs in one box. I don't think anyone really used it. I know someone who did. He was doing robotics, but a KA630 was not beefy enough to run the control law and a general-purpose OS both. So we got an auxiliary CPU (a KA620, not a 630, but they are very similar) and I built a _very_ stripped-down kernel for the auxiliary to run. We found a bug in the hardware, actually. Doorbell interrupts would be dropped some tiny fraction of the time (less than 1%, maybe as little as a few ppm, I forget). After convincing DEC that the problem really did exist (some very simple test programs, small enough to be typed into consoles and understood in toto), we eventually were told that the design should never have worked at all and the only reason it did was that DEC overdesigned heavily. (Some etch run crossed the whole board and the capacitance was far more than it should have been.) They even created an ECO that fixed it - lowering a pullup resistor, I think. But few people used interprocessor interrupts, and of those that did only a small proportion minded if a tiny fraction of the interrupts got lost, so you had to ask for the ECO to get it - but last I heard, you could still get it if you knew to ask for it. (Of course, that was a long time ago; I don't know if there even _is_ any service organization behind KA6[23]0s any longer.) > You can find a description of it in the KA680 Tech Manual > (EK-KA680-TM, available on all good Internets ...). EK-KA630-UG-001 contains a fairly good description of it; that's what I wrote my emulation to. > Since you have a KA630 you could try "SHOW QBUS" and see what it > really comes back as, but 0x0020 is my guess. "SHOW QBUS"? That must be a far newer ROM rev than I have. > You need to handle accesses to the Qbus address where that register > lives and make sure the right value is returned. Well, I'm fairly sure I've got it simulating what the KA630 book says. But I've found the book misdescribing the hardware once already, so it could be getting it wrong again, I suppose. I've been considering ways to run the real thing under tracing, since in the simulator it never does anything that would cause a tracing program to lose control (so if the real thing does I've found a difference, and if not I should be able to find a difference anyway). Should be interesting. >> [...], but ends up with an error at step 7 - apparently it can't >> find any working memory(!). > Did you remember to give it any :-) :-) Indeed, if I give it under 16M of RAM, I see machine checks happen as it sizes RAM. > Exactly how does it die? I presume that some time ago it politely > asked the memory controller for what might be happening and got > "dunno" as the reply ... As far as I can see there is no memory controller as far as software's view of the machine is concerned. > I'm no guru - I don't meditate enough :-) Hey, this is a VAX, not an Amiga! :) I did get some VAX selftest software from a helpful listmember (of another list), which when I get the time I'm going to try on my simulator. We'll see what happens. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From BIDDR7 at aol.com Mon Jul 26 11:01:14 2004 From: BIDDR7 at aol.com (BIDDR7@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: RE 4205 Message-ID: <12a.47043ef7.2e3684ca@aol.com> SIR YOU STILL GOT THIS TERMINAL. I WILL BE INTERESTED BUYING IN ONE THANKS Mj cctalk@classiccmp.org From Adrian at beovax.co.uk Mon Jul 26 11:05:05 2004 From: Adrian at beovax.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: Pegasus (was: Re: Computer history -- visiting the UK) Message-ID: <9DB4E1EECB0B8F46825C6B3F4F83FE94095777@emma.Beovax.Local> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules Richardson > Sent: 26 July 2004 16:26 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Pegasus (was: Re: Computer history -- visiting the UK) > > was generally occupying my brain the last few weeks (I'm sure > Witchy will be making images available; a great time was had I wondered if my message yesterday hadn't got out! Typical, you spend ages trying to post an update and it vanishes into that there ether. An initial page is up at http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/cge-uk2004/cge.php with more pix to come later if the DSL is actually active in my cottage like they say it is! Cheers w From jimc at unipower-corp.com Mon Jul 26 12:47:45 2004 From: jimc at unipower-corp.com (Jim Ceavers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: Cirris 1000 Message-ID: Joe, The link to e-bay for the Cirris Signature 1000 is no longer valid. Do you still have it? Jim Ceavers Unipower Corp. 954-905-1062 From mbg at theworld.com Mon Jul 26 13:45:50 2004 From: mbg at theworld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: 2.10bsd on an 18 bit '11? Message-ID: <200407261845.OAA1767371@shell.TheWorld.com> As the designer and implementor of the Qbus and Unibus Ethernet handlers for RT, I can say that for the NU handler to work (with either DEUNA or DELUA), the version of RT you use must have the support for Unibus Map. If not, it won't work. I have to admit that I don't remember which version of RT was the first to release with Unibus Map support... (so many versions, they all sort of blur in memory over time...) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL,ST| email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01824 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at TheWorld.com Mon Jul 26 13:58:57 2004 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: Booting real RT11 on a Heath H-11 Message-ID: <200407261858.OAA1773315@shell.TheWorld.com> >> The only problem is that the boot ROMs, which are on the WH-27 card, >> don't know how to boot a RL02. Any ideas? > >I seem to remember that if you configure RT11 with the RL11 handler >(DL.SYS IIRC) and boot that (e.g. from RX01 floppies) you can then do a >BOOT /FOREIGN DL0: to boot the RLs. You can also do the following: Make sure you have a bootable RT volume with the DX.SYS and DL.SYS device drivers. Make a copy of it. For the copy (and I'm assuming it is mounted in drive 1 with the system in drive 0), issue the following command: COPY/BOOT:DL DX1:RT11SJ.SYS DX1: (or substitute the monitor filename for RT11SJ above). What this will do is create a diskette which, when booted, will actually boot the corresponding unit of the DL drives. If you place this in drive 0 and boot it, the system will be loaded and will run from DL0. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL,ST| email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01824 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mrexa1 at optushome.com.au Mon Jul 26 20:20:53 2004 From: mrexa1 at optushome.com.au (Moe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: Shure Ams8000 mixer Message-ID: <001a01c47377$f7d43ac0$0100a8c0@moe> Hi Chris. I stumbled across the website with your details and how you had some material on the Shure Ams8000 mixer. I was wondering if you would still happen to have a copy of the manual ore anything relating how to function this Mixer. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanx Moe From cmonique at dodo.com.au Mon Jul 26 21:59:14 2004 From: cmonique at dodo.com.au (Dan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: Shure AMS8000 mixer. Message-ID: <014701c47385$b4177fa0$6787dccb@d6j4e7> Chris, I was told that you have some documents on the Shure AMS8000 mixer. Is it possible for you to email me a copy of them? Kind regards Dan Allen From hoolihan at pacbell.net Tue Jul 27 00:16:16 2004 From: hoolihan at pacbell.net (D&L Hoolihan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: IBM pc/xt/at technical documentation... Message-ID: <000601c47398$d9d5b0a0$1901a8c0@hoolihan> I have the following guides available, if there is any interest: 6025000 "Guide to Operations" 6280085 "Guide to Operations - Personal Computer XT" (Not sure if this is complete, but it has 2 diskettes and some options suppliments included) 6322511 "Guide to Operations - Personal Computer XT" (different than above...) 1502241 "Guide to Operations - Personal Computer AT" 1502491 "Installation and Setup" (2 charts included) 6280087 "Hardware Maintenance Service" (2 diskettes included) 6322508 "Technical Reference - Personal Computer XT and Portable Personal Computer" 6025005 "Technical Reference" 6280099 "Technical Reference - Personal Computer AT" All reasonable offers will be seriously considered. I believe these are complete (except where otherwise mentioned). I am willing to provide pictures and/or specific info (within reason) upon request. I prefer to sell as a set. thank you, Dan Hoolihan hoolihan@*NO*SPAM*pacbell.net From ddl at danlan.com Tue Jul 27 02:44:32 2004 From: ddl at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: H89 disk imaging Message-ID: <200407270744.DAA15285@ss10.danlan.com> Did you ever get this going? I'm looking at a different approach, reading the single density disks a track at a time in double density and then doing the data separation in software. Dan From geoffreythomas at onetel.com Tue Jul 27 14:36:27 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.com (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity - language? References: Message-ID: <00c501c47411$28f18740$0200a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 5:52 PM Subject: Re: Insect Conductivity - language? > On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > Rumor has it that Ed Kelleher may have mentioned these words: > > >At 07:16 PM 7/26/2004, you wrote: > > >>What stupid fucking creatures. Good thing too. If they actually had any > > >>sort of intelligence they could take over the world. > > > > > >This is the 3rd time you've used the F word recently...... > > When will this entirely way too priggish society we live in get over > itself already? One of the most enlightening moments I've had in recent > years was when Hans Franke was visiting a few years back. We were > watching some show on TV (probably on Comedy Central) where some swear > words were bleeped out. I, of course, having been raised in this > obnoxiously Puritanical society, did not flinch. But Hans was like, > "What!?" He was befuddled. Over what I did not know. I thought maybe > he didn't understand the joke that was said. No, no, he understood the > joke just fine. He was shocked--shocked!--that the curse word was > bleeped! This distinctly American practice had been lampooned on German > television, and he thought it was just the Germans poking fun at the > uptight Americans. He was astonished that the practice was real and > alive in the 21st century! > > I am too! > > Grow up already! You're an adult now. Mom will not be washing your mouth > out with soap. You can really say these words! Really! > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org Me , I want to know what the ants said in reply. Translation anyone - looking for a babel fish......... I was up on the scaffolding outside my house today (we're having some cladding fitted ) fitting up my uhf aerial in a higher position when a squadron of flying ants descended on everything - from the park at the back of the house. I'm afraid I outdid Sellam , and ,statistically speaking , you wouldn't expect that many ants to be illegitimate. They wouldn't go away so I had to come inside , it's a bit dangerous when you're up high and ants are exploring every part of your anatomy ; I've just had a shower and two came out of my hair- silly little buggers. What's this got to do with fucking computers anyway ? ................... Where's the soap ? - Yes doesn't it ! ( Two nuns in the bath - old Morecambe & Wise joke ) Geoff. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 27 17:01:35 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: Anyone have/know of Persci drives, parts In-Reply-To: <410622B1.21C03EC@brothom.nl> from "Bert Thomas" at Jul 27, 4 10:38:57 am Message-ID: > > socketed. This has not stopped me repairing it. Actually, I am not sure > > what benefits socketed ICs provide for troubleshooting/repair -- > > desoldering and replacing the faulty IC is not a major job, and you > > shouldn't need to remvoe ICs other than the faulty one (in other words > > troubleshooting should not consist of replacing ICs until the thing > > starts working). > > Say, for example, you have multiple open collector outputs connected to > eachother, and for some reason the line is stuck at a certain level. Of Presumably stuck low for TTL. > course there are other possible ways, but I think it's quite handy to > remove all connected ICs and find out which one keeps the line at said > level. The problem with doing this is that all (common?) open-collector ICs are multi-section, so if you pull a chip you disable other parts of the circuit too -- parts that might affect an IC that's still in place and which also drives the common wire-AND line. Yes, I have seen circuits where this would be a problem You can get some (very expensive) adaptors with a test pin for each IC pin and a tiny 3 position switch that does the following : (a) test pin, IC pin, and socket all connected; (b) test pin connected to IC pin, isolated from socket; (c) test pin connected to socket, isolated from IC pin. But last time I looked, I couldn't afford a full set of such adaptors. > > Or for example, the PSU prevents the supply voltage from coming up > because the circuit draws too much current. A quick inspection by > removing all ICs and reinserting them one by one is a convinient way to > find out where the problem lies. Actually, in my experience, hard power line shorts are often due to decoupling capacitors. > > If you know better ways than this I would really love to hear about it. The 'correct' tool for this is a current tracer, which will indicate current flow along the PCB tracks. In the second case you power the board from a current limited supply and see where the current is flowing with the tracer (assuming there aren't internal power and ground planes!). In the first case you can actually see which branch of the common wire-AND line is taking the current. Without a current tracer you're pretty much reduced to cutting tracks/IC pins and then soldering wires (not just a blob of solder, please) to repair them. This is actually recomended in some service manuals. However, to return to your Persci drive, does it (a) draw excessive supply current, or (b) contain significant numbers of open-collector ICs other than those that drive the cable (and which can therefore be isolated from ohter ICs by pulling said cable)? If not, then there's no real problem in troubleshooting the digital side. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 27 17:13:18 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: Intel D82284 datasheet.. In-Reply-To: <1090941150.10189.130.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Jul 27, 4 03:12:31 pm Message-ID: > > > Anyone happen to have a copy of the Intel D82284 IC (18 pin DIL) > datasheet? I think it's some form of clock generator IC; I have an 80286 I have the 82C284 data sheet, which is the CMOS version. I assume it's very similar.. It's described as 'Clock Generator and Ready Interface for 80286 Porcessors', and I remmeebr it being used in the IBM PC/AT. Anyway, here's a pinout : 1 : ARDY/ (Asynchronous Ready Input) 2 : SRDY/ (Synchronous Ready Input) 3 : SRDYEN/ (SRDY Enable Input) 4 : READY (Ready output to CPU) 5 : EFI (External Frequneny Input, TTL clock in) 6 : F, C/ (Clock Select Input. High = use EFI, Low = use Xtal) 7 : X1 (Xtal connection) 8 : X2 (Ditto) 9 : Gnd 10 : Clk (Processor Clock output) 11 : RES/ (Reset Input) 12 : Reset (Synchronised Reset output to CPU) 13 : PCLK (Peripheral Clock Output) 14 : N/C 15 : S0/ (Status Input from CPU) 16 : S1/ (Ditto) 17 : ARDYEN/ (ARDY Enable Input) 18 : Vcc > board which uses one that I'm trying to fix and just want to verify that > the system's clocking OK. Check for a clock signal at twice the 'specified' CPU clock (e.g. 16MHz for an 8MHz machine) at pin 10. Most 286 machines were pretty close to the IBM PC/AT schematic. Do you have access to the TechRef? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 27 17:21:41 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040727143051.009e4a70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at Jul 27, 4 02:30:51 pm Message-ID: [Building an EPROM PRogrammer] > Why bother? You can buy them cheaply and easily, both new from the > manufacturer's and used from E-bay. Yeah, Yeah I know someone will say Sevearl good reasons 1) You cna probalby build one in less time than it takes to come from whatever mail-order supply you choose (that's certainly true in the UK) which means you can get on with the project. 2) Many of the modern cheap programmers need a PC/Windows, which not all of us have, or care to have 3) Many modern programmers do not support older EPROMs. Heck, some of them no longer support any Vpp higher than 12.5V. This is a problem if you want to program those 2732s.... > it's an eductional thing but hanostly can't you find a better way to use And yes it is an educational project. > your time than to reinvent the EPROM programmer for the 10,000th time? Care to suggest some??? -tony From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Jul 27 19:01:38 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: Shure AMS8000 mixer. Message-ID: <200407280001.RAA21557@clulw009.amd.com> >From: Dan > >Chris, >I was told that you have some documents on the Shure AMS8000 mixer. >Is it possible for you to email me a copy of them? > >Kind regards > >Dan Allen > Hi Doesn't anyone find it just a little suspicious that we got two request for information for the same rare information? This seems to be the typical type of request that we see. I realize that it has been stated before that these may in fact be valid request from someone looking at the archives. I just don't believe it! I get the feeling that these are some kind of automatic ( with some intelligence ) address mining bots. Am I just paranoid or does anyone else see what I see. Dwight From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Jul 27 19:02:46 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: H89 disk imaging Message-ID: <200407280002.RAA21561@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Dan Lanciani" > >Did you ever get this going? I'm looking at a different approach, reading >the single density disks a track at a time in double density and then doing >the data separation in software. > > Dan > Hi Dan Unless you know something I don't about disk formats, you can not read double single density format with a double density controller. It isn't that you'll just get 16 bits instead of 8 bits, things like sync makers will not work. In any case, I currently have a method of transferring hard sectored 40 track disk images to and from the following platforms to a PC running DOS: Z/H90 w/ serial card H89 w/ serial card H8 w/ H8-5 serial/cassette card H8 w/ H8-4 serial card ( Note: The H8's may be either an 8080 w/ PAM8 or a Z80 w/ XCON8 ). The DOS machine needs a serial port. My setup can also be used to bootstrap a machine that one has no access to disk with code on them. You only need the blank disks to copy the images to to bring up a system. Dwight ps I hope Dan is on our mail list because I no longer email directly to queries from off list. See my previous post. From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jul 27 19:13:22 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: Shure AMS8000 mixer. In-Reply-To: <200407280001.RAA21557@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200407280001.RAA21557@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <4106EFA2.8030706@mdrconsult.com> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >>From: Dan >> >>Chris, >>I was told that you have some documents on the Shure AMS8000 mixer. >>Is it possible for you to email me a copy of them? >> >>Kind regards >> >>Dan Allen >> > > > > Hi > Doesn't anyone find it just a little suspicious that we got > two request for information for the same rare information? This > seems to be the typical type of request that we see. I realize > that it has been stated before that these may in fact be valid > request from someone looking at the archives. I just don't > believe it! I get the feeling that these are some kind of > automatic ( with some intelligence ) address mining bots. It's a little odd, but I have a very time believing that even an intelligent mining bot is going to turn out a request as detailed and coherent as the other request for Shure info. I'd come closer to believing that it's two techs at the same shop, or even the same guy posting from work and then from home. > Am I just paranoid or does anyone else see what I see. Not gonna go there, Dwight. :) Doc From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue Jul 27 19:36:51 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: Various IBM PS/2 models available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200407271936.51983.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Monday 26 July 2004 22:22, David V. Corbin wrote: > Possibly interested in the 50Z. Do you have a complete inventory of > the machine handy? > > Also any MCA slave processors? [e.g. GPIB (smart), DSP] > > David I picked up a couple of PS/2's (IIRC, a model 70 and Model 56) with GPIB cards in them, the cards seem to have a lot of logic on them, including a TMS9914 GPIB controller. If anyone's interested (David especially :), let me know, I'd be willing to send off the card + a hard drive image (or copy of the files from them) for a reasonable price if they work. :) They have labels on them with the company name "TA Instruments" and one is labelled "Thermal Analyst 2000" and the other "Thermal Analyst 2100". Pat > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage > >>> Computer Festival > >>> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 10:34 PM > >>> To: Classic Computers Mailing List > >>> Subject: Various IBM PS/2 models available > >>> > >>> > >>> Is anyone interested in IBM PS/2 models? I have a bunch of > >>> various models available if anyone wants them for $10 each > >>> plus shipping: > >>> > >>> Model 50 > >>> Model 50Z > >>> Model 35 SX > >>> > >>> ...and some others. I'd rather they go to someone rather > >>> than be scrapped, which is what's going to happen to them > >>> by the end of the week. > >>> So make an offer if you're interested. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> > >>> Sellam Ismail > >>> Vintage Computer Festival > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> ------------------ > >>> International Man of Intrigue and Danger > >>> http://www.vintage.org > >>> > >>> [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade > >>> Vintage Computers ] > >>> [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > >>> http://marketplace.vintage.org ] -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Jul 27 19:36:50 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: Shure AMS8000 mixer. Message-ID: <200407280036.RAA21585@clulw009.amd.com> Hi If someone on the list replies to this ( or these ) fellows, I'd like to know if they get any response. I've tried to send to two of these types request in the past and gotten no response. ( they didn't seem to care that I had what they were requesting. ) In fact, I'd like to know if anyone that has sent to one of these off list request has ever found that they where actually talking to a real person. I'll have to admit that this particular request looks real. Still, from my past experience, I have my doubts. The two request that I replied to in the past also seemed as valid as this one. As you will note, I have no problem responding to those I recognize as being on the list or just responding to the list in general. These off list request tend to be about as close to form type request as the various Nigerian scam letters I receive. They're all a little different but all seem to have some common elements. Dwight >From: "Doc Shipley" > >Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >>>From: Dan >>> >>>Chris, >>>I was told that you have some documents on the Shure AMS8000 mixer. >>>Is it possible for you to email me a copy of them? >>> >>>Kind regards >>> >>>Dan Allen >>> >> >> >> >> Hi >> Doesn't anyone find it just a little suspicious that we got >> two request for information for the same rare information? This >> seems to be the typical type of request that we see. I realize >> that it has been stated before that these may in fact be valid >> request from someone looking at the archives. I just don't >> believe it! I get the feeling that these are some kind of >> automatic ( with some intelligence ) address mining bots. > > It's a little odd, but I have a very time believing that even an >intelligent mining bot is going to turn out a request as detailed and >coherent as the other request for Shure info. I'd come closer to >believing that it's two techs at the same shop, or even the same guy >posting from work and then from home. > >> Am I just paranoid or does anyone else see what I see. > > Not gonna go there, Dwight. :) > > > Doc > From micheladam at theedge.ca Tue Jul 27 20:25:59 2004 From: micheladam at theedge.ca (Michel Adam) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: Now easier for people to get HP2000/Access up (was: More HP microcode & loader rom detective work) In-Reply-To: <01bb01c47405$9e080240$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: Jay West wrote... [...] > HP released HP2000 Time Shared BASIC (TSB) in several versions. 2000A, > 2000B, 2000C, 2000C', 2000E, 2000F, 2000F', 2000/Access, and 2000 System. > These were basically just releases over time with more features, different > hardware support, etc. All of the variants require TWO cpus to run, except > 2000A and 2000E. [...] I was under the impression that '2000/Access' was the last incarnation. What more functionality and/or language features did the '2000 System' have over the 'Access' version? Is there anywhere on the web a document explaining it? Thanks Michel Adam From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jul 27 19:52:04 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.2.20040727081141.03319538@192.168.0.1> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040727205204.00b46e40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:23 AM 7/27/04 -0700, Sellam wrote: >I have yet to hear a rational reason why anyone should not feel free to >use the words of their choosing. Because, after all, they are just words. Boy, that's certainly not the reaction that I got from you over the use of the word Fag. Do I sense a double standard here? Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jul 27 19:56:17 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: Cirris 1000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040727205617.00b46680@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Jim, Yes I still have it. The winnng bidder welshed out and never paid for it. BTW note my address above. The address that you sent the message to is for a mailing list. Joe At 01:47 PM 7/26/04 -0400, you wrote: >Joe, > >The link to e-bay for the Cirris Signature 1000 is no longer valid. Do you >still have it? > >Jim Ceavers >Unipower Corp. >954-905-1062 > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jul 27 20:41:59 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040727143051.009e4a70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040727214159.00b46d70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:21 PM 7/27/04 +0100, Tony wrote: >[Building an EPROM PRogrammer] > >> Why bother? You can buy them cheaply and easily, both new from the >> manufacturer's and used from E-bay. Yeah, Yeah I know someone will say > >Sevearl good reasons > >1) You cna probalby build one in less time than it takes to come from >whatever mail-order supply you choose (that's certainly true in the UK) >which means you can get on with the project. > >2) Many of the modern cheap programmers need a PC/Windows, which not all >of us have, or care to have The only PC connected ones that I have all run from DOS. If you can't find a PC then use one of the stand alone models like the Data IO 29B. > >3) Many modern programmers do not support older EPROMs. Heck, some of >them no longer support any Vpp higher than 12.5V. This is a problem if >you want to program those 2732s.... The only thing that my Data I/O 29Bs, Stags, and other programmer won't program are 1702s. But I have two Pro-Log units that will handle those. I haven't paid more than $10 for any of the programmers that I have. If you want a decent PC powered programmer that's CHEAP then checkout the used Needham PB-10s. They program everything from 2708s to 27512s and sell used for about $15 to $30. . I've bought these for as little as $5. The first one that I bought came WITH a Columbia portable computer (8088, 640K, 2 floppies). I think I gave $20 for everything. > > >> it's an eductional thing but hanostly can't you find a better way to use > >And yes it is an educational project. So are Tinker Toys but I passed that stage long ago. > >> your time than to reinvent the EPROM programmer for the 10,000th time? > >Care to suggest some??? Is this a trick question? I guess you don't get out much. Here's the short list: Cold beer, hot cars, hot women, sports, tv, movies, old computers, friends, traveling, pets, reading, family, tending my greden, taking care of my house, etc etc etc. But just to keep things on topic I have a whole house full of computers and ANY of them is a lot more interesting than an EPROM programmer.* A have a GOOD number of them that I've never even turned on due to lack of time. If I ever finish with them then I have a lot more squireled away in a friend's warehouse. I'm also presently building my own transistor curve tracer (actively building), 1 GHz network analyzer (gathering parts), power supply tester with selectable constant voltage, current and power (gathering parts) and some other test equipment that I CAN'T buy. With GOOD EPROM programmers selling for ~$30 (see it's foolish to waste your time building your own. And there are DAMMED few EPROMs, PALs, BiPolor PROMs, etc that the 29B won't program. To me an EPROM programmer is an appliance like my microwave oven and I give it about as much consideration. I just don't see the point in spending a lot of time and money building or repairing anything that is readily available and cheap to buy. I have a LOT better things to do with my time! * The only INTERESTING EPROM programmers that I have are the 4004 CPU powered ProLog units and the 4040 CPU powered Intel units. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jul 27 20:52:09 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: Shure AMS8000 mixer. In-Reply-To: <200407280036.RAA21585@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040727215209.00b49b10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:36 PM 7/27/04 -0700, you wrote: >Hi > If someone on the list replies to this ( or these ) fellows, >I'd like to know if they get any response. I've tried >to send to two of these types request in the past and >gotten no response. That's been my experience as well. However I just replied to another one that looks like it came from a real person. We'll see. BTW have you noticed that a lot of these are typed in all caps or else have bizzare spelling/grammer? I never reply to those. I figure it's either a bot or a complete imbecile. Joe From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jul 27 20:59:58 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: Now easier for people to get HP2000/Access up (was: More HPmicrocode & loader rom detective work) References: Message-ID: <004f01c47446$96a672c0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > I was under the impression that '2000/Access' was the last incarnation. Nope. "2000 System" was. At least by HP. > What > more functionality and/or language features did the '2000 System' have over > the 'Access' version? I'd love to know. I am not aware of any surviving OS distributions for it, nor any operator/user manuals. Some general manuals do mention it however. >Is there anywhere on the web a document explaining it? There are several manuals and such on the web, and several manuals in my posession... that mention it's existence, as well as giving the HP product number for the OS distribution, which is different from 2000/Access product number. In addition, (now I'm delving into totally unsubstantiated rumor)...I had heard from a source that when HP discontinued TSB, it was taken over by a third party that enhanced it and called it "2000G". I'm starting to discount that though as I've never found ANY corroboration for his story. But, with regard to 2000/Access & 2000 System.... the manual is pretty corroborative :) Jay West From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 27 21:06:39 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: OT language crap Re: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040727205204.00b46e40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Joe R. wrote: > At 07:23 AM 7/27/04 -0700, Sellam wrote: > > >I have yet to hear a rational reason why anyone should not feel free to > >use the words of their choosing. Because, after all, they are just words. > > Boy, that's certainly not the reaction that I got from you over the use > of the word Fag. Do I sense a double standard here? That's because calling someone a "fag" is somewhat like calling someone a "nigger". You just don't do that unless you really want to offend someone. It's a term of hate. Take the context you used it in--"BATF fags"--and replace "fags" with "niggers" and you (I hope) get my point. In my case, I was using perfectly valid language to perfectly express the way I felt about the TSA, ants, et al. It did not involve using a pointed derogatory term to offend any particular person. I was merely using an adverb in context. Joe, you can of course use any language that you please. I was merely pointing out that using that particular language can really hurt people, perhaps even people you like, and people who like you. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 27 21:17:40 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: Suspicious off-list e-mail requests? Hardly... (was Re: Shure AMS8000 mixer.) In-Reply-To: <200407280001.RAA21557@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >From: Dan > > > >Chris, > >I was told that you have some documents on the Shure AMS8000 mixer. > >Is it possible for you to email me a copy of them? > > > >Kind regards > > > >Dan Allen > > > Hi > Doesn't anyone find it just a little suspicious that we got > two request for information for the same rare information? This > seems to be the typical type of request that we see. I realize > that it has been stated before that these may in fact be valid > request from someone looking at the archives. I just don't > believe it! I get the feeling that these are some kind of > automatic ( with some intelligence ) address mining bots. > Am I just paranoid or does anyone else see what I see. > Dwight Dwight, This was explained before and maybe you missed the explanation message. All the messages that get sent to the list from non-subscribers are held for moderation. Sometimes the moderators don't get to these messages for a long period of time (days) and so they queue up. Then when they're finally approved, they all show up on the list at once. This is strictly a function of the batch moderation. The fact that two messages from two different people came in asking about the same obscure piece of hardware is mere coincidence. Sure, this could be some hair-brained scheme to harvest e-mail addresses, but why would anyone go to that much trouble? All you'd need to do is have a bot subscribe to the list and then suck all the e-mail addresses that come through. Posing a very legitimate sounding question to get e-mail addresses seems like a huge waste of time, even for lowly losers like spammers who have no lives nor penes (<-- plural form of "penis"...I had to look it up. "Penises" is also acceptable but how many chances do you get to use the obscure plural form of "penis"?) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jul 27 21:56:26 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: 8" floppy project In-Reply-To: <4106AE3F.1090403@mdrconsult.com> References: <4106AE3F.1090403@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <20040727194931.F3572@newshell.lmi.net> On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Doc Shipley wrote: > The first order of business is an interface cable for a standard ISA > floppy/IDE controller. I've found this pinout: > http://tinyurl.com/5c5fb > but no confirmation that it actually worked with a YD-180 drive, > which is what I have available. That'll depend on some details and jumpers of the YD-180, such as Disk Change v Ready, etc. You might want to look at http://www.dbit.com (they also peddle a 5.25 to 8 inch adapter) http://www.dbit.com/fdadap.html Some PC FDCs will read single density, but you'll need different hardware to handle the "mixed density" stuff. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jul 27 22:01:10 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: H89 disk imaging In-Reply-To: <200407270744.DAA15285@ss10.danlan.com> References: <200407270744.DAA15285@ss10.danlan.com> Message-ID: <20040727195749.X3572@newshell.lmi.net> On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Dan Lanciani wrote: > Did you ever get this going? I'm looking at a different approach, reading > the single density disks a track at a time in double density and then doing > the data separation in software. A double density read with a PC FDC isn't going to work. In fact, the NEC 765 type FDC (as is used in ALL of the PCs) doesn't HAVE a track read; instead it has a "smart" multi-sector read. OTOH, if you use different hardware than a PC type FDC, a track read of flux transitions can work. From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Jul 27 22:32:36 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: A Celebrity among us Message-ID: Perusers of the American hobby publication "Nuts and Volts" are directed to the August, 2004 edition (Vol 25; No 8) upon whose cover, and within whose pages, can be found a lovely vacuum-tube preamp (off topic) by none other than our own Robert Armstrong (on topic) of 'Spare-Time Gizmos' fame - originator of the SBC 6120 PDP-8 emulator - and other similarly fabulous devices. www.sparetimegizmos.com Good Show, Bob! Keep 'em Glowing! Cheers John 'Space Charge' Lawson From melamy at earthlink.net Tue Jul 27 22:37:41 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: H89 disk imaging Message-ID: <7716535.1090985861579.JavaMail.root@kermit.psp.pas.earthlink.net> besides the fact that it isn't possible to read sd disks with a controller that can only do dd.. so what does the diagnostic track read function of the 765 do (given that it is trying to read dd data)? -----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin Sent: Jul 27, 2004 11:01 PM To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Subject: Re: H89 disk imaging On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Dan Lanciani wrote: > Did you ever get this going? I'm looking at a different approach, reading > the single density disks a track at a time in double density and then doing > the data separation in software. A double density read with a PC FDC isn't going to work. In fact, the NEC 765 type FDC (as is used in ALL of the PCs) doesn't HAVE a track read; instead it has a "smart" multi-sector read. OTOH, if you use different hardware than a PC type FDC, a track read of flux transitions can work. From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jul 27 22:46:49 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: 8" floppy project In-Reply-To: <20040727194931.F3572@newshell.lmi.net> References: <4106AE3F.1090403@mdrconsult.com> <20040727194931.F3572@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <410721A9.8020101@mdrconsult.com> Fred Cisin wrote: > On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Doc Shipley wrote: > >> The first order of business is an interface cable for a standard ISA >>floppy/IDE controller. I've found this pinout: >>http://tinyurl.com/5c5fb >> but no confirmation that it actually worked with a YD-180 drive, >>which is what I have available. > > > That'll depend on some details and jumpers of the YD-180, > such as Disk Change v Ready, etc. > > You might want to look at > http://www.dbit.com > (they also peddle a 5.25 to 8 inch adapter) > http://www.dbit.com/fdadap.html > > Some PC FDCs will read single density, but > you'll need different hardware to handle the "mixed density" stuff. Define "different hardware"? I have Amigas and an Amiga Catweasel (Mk2, unfortunately), Macs from SE to G5, DEC (from RX02 to RX50, RX33, and RX23, as well as the standard interface on later Alphas), and a weird Siemens-Nixdorf MIPS box that also has a 3.5" floppy. Bottom line requirement is that I be able to low-level format an 8" floppy to RX02 format. IIRC, RT-11 can flip the switch from RX01 to RX02 in an RX02 drive, right? And I need to be able to accurately copy a bootable RX02 diskette to a formatted blank. I'd *like* to be able to take a disk image of a floppy as a file, and to write that back out to floppy, but that's gravy. Oh, and the PDP-11/04 I uncrated today has an SMS FD1100I board in it that looks like a floppy controller, but I can't find out *anything* about that. Doc From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jul 27 22:43:53 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: Suspicious off-list e-mail requests? Hardly... (was Re: Shure AMS8000 mixer.) References: Message-ID: <410720F9.4070201@jetnet.ab.ca> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Sure, this could be some hair-brained scheme to harvest e-mail addresses, > but why would anyone go to that much trouble? All you'd need to do is > have a bot subscribe to the list and then suck all the e-mail addresses > that come through. Posing a very legitimate sounding question to get > e-mail addresses seems like a huge waste of time, even for lowly losers > like spammers who have no lives nor penes (<-- plural form of "penis"...I > had to look it up. "Penises" is also acceptable but how many chances do > you get to use the obscure plural form of "penis"?) > Why is there a plural anyhow? As far as I know you only get *one* per customer. :) From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Jul 27 22:54:29 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: Suspicious off-list e-mail requests? Hardly... (was Re: Shure AMS8000 mixer.) In-Reply-To: <410720F9.4070201@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > Why is there a plural anyhow? As far as I know you only get *one* per > customer. :) There is a very rare mutation...seriously... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jul 27 23:03:15 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: "READ TRACK" (was: H89 disk imaging In-Reply-To: <7716535.1090985861579.JavaMail.root@kermit.psp.pas.earthlink.net> References: <7716535.1090985861579.JavaMail.root@kermit.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20040727204507.R3572@newshell.lmi.net> On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Steve Thatcher wrote: > besides the fact that it isn't possible to read sd disks with a > controller that can only do dd.. so what does the diagnostic track read > function of the 765 do (given that it is trying to read dd data)? At the risk of offending those who already know about it: The WD type FDCs (NOT including NEC type FDCs made by WD) have a track read command that reads every bit of the track, separating data pulses from clock pulses, but doing little else, although there are some complications in dealing with address marks (which are bytes with missing clock pulses) The NEC type FDCs, as are used on PC FDC cards, have a "track read" command, but it does additional processing, and strips out the headers, gaps, etc., providing you with ONLY the data from within all of the sectors on the track. I would prefer to call that a "multi-sector" read, not a "track read". The NEC approach is more convenient for some uses, but I'd much rather have the "raw" track read of the WD type chips. Actually, I'd rather have a TRULY raw read, and separate the data and clock pulses in software. The Central Point Option Board (and the CatWeasel) provide the easiest ways to get that capability on a PC, unless you build your own hardware. There are also some neat things that you can do with the disk access on an Amiga. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Jul 27 23:07:54 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: 8" floppy project In-Reply-To: <410721A9.8020101@mdrconsult.com> References: <4106AE3F.1090403@mdrconsult.com> <20040727194931.F3572@newshell.lmi.net> <410721A9.8020101@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <20040728040754.GA15109@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 10:46:49PM -0500, Doc Shipley wrote: > Bottom line requirement is that I be able to low-level format an 8" > floppy to RX02 format. IIRC, RT-11 can flip the switch from RX01 to > RX02 in an RX02 drive, right? Yes. So can OS/8. The "flip" is when an RX02 drive re-writes part of the sector to double density. That's what makes them so hard to read on non-DEC hardware - the media becomes both single and double density. Both RX01 and RX02 disks start off with "Industry Standard" IBM-compatible low-level formatting, AFAIK. There are third-party DEC-compatible drives that can take an absolutely blank disk and lay down tracks. I would think a suitable CP/M system could do the same. Post-1982 hardware is where things start to get tricky. > And I need to be able to accurately copy a bootable RX02 diskette to > a formatted blank. In terms of development and set-up time, I would think a PDP-11 would be the fastest way to just dup floppies. > I'd *like* to be able to take a disk image of a floppy as a file, and > to write that back out to floppy, but that's gravy. That's trivial with a VAX (BACKUP/PHYSICAL). There must be a way with smaller hardware (2BSD on a PDP-11, perhaps?) I wonder what it would take to hook a real RX02 up to modern hardware. The interface isn't complicated, but AFAIK, it would take more than a PeeCee parallel port to drive it. Similar to hooking up a real Commodore 1541 to a modern machine and siphoning off a physical backup... -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 28-Jul-2004 03:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -100. F (-73.5 C) Windchill -126.1 F (-87.90 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 3.7 kts Grid 114 Barometer 673.8 mb (10860. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 27 23:08:41 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: Suspicious off-list e-mail requests? Hardly... (was Re: Shure AMS8000 mixer.) In-Reply-To: <410720F9.4070201@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, ben franchuk wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > > Sure, this could be some hair-brained scheme to harvest e-mail addresses, > > but why would anyone go to that much trouble? All you'd need to do is > > have a bot subscribe to the list and then suck all the e-mail addresses > > that come through. Posing a very legitimate sounding question to get > > e-mail addresses seems like a huge waste of time, even for lowly losers > > like spammers who have no lives nor penes (<-- plural form of "penis"...I > > had to look it up. "Penises" is also acceptable but how many chances do > > you get to use the obscure plural form of "penis"?) > > > Why is there a plural anyhow? As far as I know you only get *one* per > customer. :) Well, in case you come across a box of them or something, I suppose. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jul 27 23:09:38 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: 8" floppy project In-Reply-To: <410721A9.8020101@mdrconsult.com> References: <4106AE3F.1090403@mdrconsult.com> <20040727194931.F3572@newshell.lmi.net> <410721A9.8020101@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <20040727210404.A3572@newshell.lmi.net> On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Doc Shipley wrote: > > Some PC FDCs will read single density, but > > you'll need different hardware to handle the "mixed density" stuff. > > Define "different hardware"? Different from the PC FDC. > I have Amigas and an Amiga Catweasel > (Mk2, unfortunately), Macs from SE to G5, I don't remember whether the Amiga can do single density, but the Catweasel certainly can meet the hardware needs, although I have no idea what, IF ANY, software is available. From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jul 27 23:11:24 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: "READ TRACK" In-Reply-To: <20040727204507.R3572@newshell.lmi.net> References: <7716535.1090985861579.JavaMail.root@kermit.psp.pas.earthlink.net> <20040727204507.R3572@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <4107276C.5030608@mdrconsult.com> Fred Cisin wrote: > The Central Point Option Board (and the CatWeasel) provide > the easiest ways to get that capability on a PC, unless > you build your own hardware. > > > There are also some neat things that you can do with the > disk access on an Amiga. Bit of a tease, Fred? ;) Doc From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jul 27 23:25:56 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: "READ TRACK" In-Reply-To: <4107276C.5030608@mdrconsult.com> References: <7716535.1090985861579.JavaMail.root@kermit.psp.pas.earthlink.net> <20040727204507.R3572@newshell.lmi.net> <4107276C.5030608@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <20040727212100.U3572@newshell.lmi.net> > > There are also some neat things that you can do with the > > disk access on an Amiga. On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Doc Shipley wrote: > Bit of a tease, Fred? ;) Sorry, The Amiga uses MFM, but does NOT use 3740/"IBM"/"WD" style sectors. Therefore, disk access is done by a raw MFM read, and deciphered in software. Perhaps somebody with some Amiga expertise could elaborate on the details. From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jul 27 23:31:38 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: 8" floppy project In-Reply-To: <20040728040754.GA15109@bos7.spole.gov> References: <4106AE3F.1090403@mdrconsult.com> <20040727194931.F3572@newshell.lmi.net> <410721A9.8020101@mdrconsult.com> <20040728040754.GA15109@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <41072C2A.2010309@mdrconsult.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 10:46:49PM -0500, Doc Shipley wrote: > >> Bottom line requirement is that I be able to low-level format an 8" >>floppy to RX02 format. IIRC, RT-11 can flip the switch from RX01 to >>RX02 in an RX02 drive, right? > > > Yes. So can OS/8. The "flip" is when an RX02 drive re-writes part of > the sector to double density. That's what makes them so hard to read > on non-DEC hardware - the media becomes both single and double density. > > Both RX01 and RX02 disks start off with "Industry Standard" IBM-compatible > low-level formatting, AFAIK. There are third-party DEC-compatible drives > that can take an absolutely blank disk and lay down tracks. I would think > a suitable CP/M system could do the same. Post-1982 hardware is where > things start to get tricky. OK. I've heard yea and nay on this count. You're saying that on an RT-11 system (no OS/8 or its hardware to play with), I can take an "IBM 3740 Compatible" SSSD disk out of the box, run FORMAT/DOUBLE, and have an RX02 diskette? That would help quite a lot. > In terms of development and set-up time, I would think a PDP-11 would > be the fastest way to just dup floppies. Yep. Getting blanks to dup *to* is still the issue. >> I'd *like* to be able to take a disk image of a floppy as a file, and >>to write that back out to floppy, but that's gravy. > That's trivial with a VAX (BACKUP/PHYSICAL). There must be a way with > smaller hardware (2BSD on a PDP-11, perhaps?) Hmm. I need to see if I have a Qbus RXV21 that can run in a 22-bit system. Does VMS/VAX support RX02? Or, yes, there's an RX211 driver in 2.11BSD. Problem is getting it *on* the Unibus box. There have been "issues". And there's still no way to LL format the target disk. > I wonder what it would take to hook a real RX02 up to modern hardware. The > interface isn't complicated, but AFAIK, it would take more than a PeeCee > parallel port to drive it. Similar to hooking up a real Commodore 1541 > to a modern machine and siphoning off a physical backup... Well, there's an interface to make the PC look like an RX02.... Doc From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Jul 27 23:36:57 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: 8" floppy project In-Reply-To: <20040727210404.A3572@newshell.lmi.net> References: <4106AE3F.1090403@mdrconsult.com> <20040727194931.F3572@newshell.lmi.net> <410721A9.8020101@mdrconsult.com> <20040727210404.A3572@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20040728043657.GC15109@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 09:09:38PM -0700, Fred Cisin wrote: > I don't remember whether the Amiga can do single density, I don't recall either. For those that don't know, the Amiga doesn't have a traditional FDC chip - it uses a massive shift register in the sound chip to clock pre-encoded data on and off the disk, and uses logic functions of the graphics chip to convert entire tracks to and from MFM encoding. That's how they get 11 sectors/track - the intersector gaps are tiny compared to what a sector-oriented controller needs. One consequence of this scheme is that when they wanted to go to 2MB unformatted media (called "1.44MB" by PeeCee folks), they had two choices: create a new sound chip that could handle double the data rate, or halve the data rate of the floppy. They chose to monkey with the floppy. I have several of these - when the drive indicates 2MB media, the motor spins at half the rate so the sound chip can keep up. The upside of this is that you can put one of these floppies on an older Amiga and it will still work. The downside is that you can't steal a cheap/free drive from a PeeCee when your Amiga HD floppy drive dies. All of this aside, as flexible as the Amiga scheme is, there must be some inherent limitations or there would be no need to design a Catweasel. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 28-Jul-2004 04:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -100. F (-73.5 C) Windchill -131.8 F (-91 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 5.3 kts Grid 127 Barometer 673.6 mb (10868. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 27 23:33:48 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040727214159.00b46d70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at Jul 27, 4 09:41:59 pm Message-ID: > >2) Many of the modern cheap programmers need a PC/Windows, which not all > >of us have, or care to have > > The only PC connected ones that I have all run from DOS. If you can't I try to avoid MS-DOS too, apart from the version that runs on the HP110, and so on... > find a PC then use one of the stand alone models like the Data IO 29B. > > > > > >3) Many modern programmers do not support older EPROMs. Heck, some of > >them no longer support any Vpp higher than 12.5V. This is a problem if > >you want to program those 2732s.... > > The only thing that my Data I/O 29Bs, Stags, and other programmer won't > program are 1702s. But I have two Pro-Log units that will handle those. I > haven't paid more than $10 for any of the programmers that I have. I don't beleive those are still in production (and if they are, they're not cheap new). And if I buy second-hand equipment, I expect to have to repair it, and I would guess that service information is not (easily) available. > >> it's an eductional thing but hanostly can't you find a better way to use > > > >And yes it is an educational project. > > So are Tinker Toys but I passed that stage long ago. Never haard of it, but I sure haven't grown out of Meccano or Fischer Technik.... > > > > > >> your time than to reinvent the EPROM programmer for the 10,000th time? > > > > >Care to suggest some??? > > Is this a trick question? I guess you don't get out much. Here's the > short list: Cold beer, hot cars, hot women, sports, tv, movies, old > computers, friends, traveling, pets, reading, family, tending my greden, > taking care of my house, etc etc etc. I truely pity anyoe who regards drinking alcohol, women, sports, TV (at least the TV we get over here), (watching) movies as being more interesting than constructing anything. > > But just to keep things on topic I have a whole house full of computers > and ANY of them is a lot more interesting than an EPROM programmer.* A have > a GOOD number of them that I've never even turned on due to lack of time. So do I, but sometimes I need a change from debugging an old machine. > won't program. To me an EPROM programmer is an appliance like my microwave > oven and I give it about as much consideration. I just don't see the point I haev never treated anything as just an appliance... -tony From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Jul 27 23:47:33 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: 8" floppy project In-Reply-To: <41072C2A.2010309@mdrconsult.com> References: <4106AE3F.1090403@mdrconsult.com> <20040727194931.F3572@newshell.lmi.net> <410721A9.8020101@mdrconsult.com> <20040728040754.GA15109@bos7.spole.gov> <41072C2A.2010309@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <20040728044733.GD15109@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 11:31:38PM -0500, Doc Shipley wrote: > OK. I've heard yea and nay on this count. > > You're saying that on an RT-11 system (no OS/8 or its hardware to > play with), I can take an "IBM 3740 Compatible" SSSD disk out of the > box, run FORMAT/DOUBLE, and have an RX02 diskette? That would help > quite a lot. AFAIK, yes... that's true. The RX01 media that DEC used to sell was "IBM 3740 Compatible", and that's what I remember doing to "turn" RX01Ks into RX02Ks on an RT-11 system. If anyone has any contradictory information, please feel free to pipe up. > Hmm. I need to see if I have a Qbus RXV21 that can run in a 22-bit > system. Does VMS/VAX support RX02? I'm pretty sure VMS supports it, but my only experience is with Unibus hardware - an RX211 on a VAX-11/750. I would hope that an RXV21 works in a Qbus VAX, but I can't speak from experience. > Or, yes, there's an RX211 driver in 2.11BSD. Problem is getting it > *on* the Unibus box. There have been "issues". Right. I've fiddled with 2.9BSD and gotten over some of those issues myself. I haven't played at all with 2.11BSD - I've only recently aquired any hardware that could handle it (KDJ11 CPU card). > And there's still no way to LL format the target disk. Of course. This only takes care of part of what you want to do. > >I wonder what it would take to hook a real RX02 up to modern hardware. The > >interface isn't complicated, but AFAIK, it would take more than a PeeCee > >parallel port to drive it. Similar to hooking up a real Commodore 1541 > >to a modern machine and siphoning off a physical backup... > > Well, there's an interface to make the PC look like an RX02.... That's right... I remember that. I always wanted to fiddle with that. Last I heard, it was working with some hosts and not others (PDP-11 vs PDP-8 differences, mostly). It looked interesting, but personally, my problem is not enough Omnibus controllers to go into all of my machines, as opposed to not enough drives to go around. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 28-Jul-2004 04:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -99.7 F (-73.2 C) Windchill -132.2 F (-91.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 5.7 kts Grid 103 Barometer 673.6 mb (10868. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jul 27 23:57:19 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040727215229.I3572@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > So are Tinker Toys but I passed that stage long ago. > Never haard of it, but I sure haven't grown out of Meccano or Fischer > Technik.... Rods and hubs. Good for molecule models, etc., but not as versatile as an "Erector Set". George Morrow named his company "Thinker Toys" as a play on the name. (But then he changed it to "Morrow Designs" when the industry lost its sense of humor.) > > Is this a trick question? I guess you don't get out much. Here's the > > short list: Cold beer, hot cars, hot women, sports, tv, movies, old > > computers, friends, traveling, pets, reading, family, tending my greden, > > taking care of my house, etc etc etc. > > I truely pity anyoe who regards drinking alcohol, women, sports, TV (at > least the TV we get over here), (watching) movies as being more > interesting than constructing anything. The right women can be. From wacarder at usit.net Wed Jul 28 00:07:37 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Good news on my RK05 drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I tried a DSKINT in RSTS/E. It errors attempting to write, claiming that there's a bad block on track 0 (or sector 0). The disk reads perfectly fine in the other drive, no bad blocks. I wrote a little test program to attempt to read random blocks and I watched the read/write head. It did move in and out like it should. If it was attempting to read a low numbered block, it moved just a little bit. If it was attempting to read a high numbered block, it moved farther toward the center of the platter. However, every attempt to read or write resulted in an error. The head would position to the appropriate(?) position on the disk, sit there a short while, and then move back to cylinder 0. I suppose I could swap boards with the good drive to verify the boards. Any other ideas? I guess that some day soon I'm going to have to learn more low-level technical stuff and how to troubleshoot electronic components (I keep saying that!). - Ashley -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 12:06 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Good news on my RK05 drives > Drive 0 seems to have problems reading, but does spin up > and light the ON-CYL and READY lights. I need to watch the head > when I attempt to do a READ and see if it's doing anything. > Experts, does this sound like an alignment problem or > something else? I'm not an expert, but... Maybe an alignment problem, maybe soemthing else. What you want to do is take a pack you don't care about the contents of, and attempt to format and verify it in drive 0 (this will erase everything on the pack). If this works, then the problem is radial alignment (head alignment) -- the drive can read/write correctly, but just not in the same place as other drives. If it fails, then there's something else wrong. Maybe head positioning, maybe the read/write board, maybe... You then need to do more troubleshooting, maybe with a'scope, while the drive is formatting/verifying to see just what is going on. -tony From donm at cts.com Wed Jul 28 00:28:04 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: <00c501c47411$28f18740$0200a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Geoffrey Thomas wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 5:52 PM > Subject: Re: Insect Conductivity - language? > > > > On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > > > Rumor has it that Ed Kelleher may have mentioned these words: > > > >At 07:16 PM 7/26/2004, you wrote: > > > >>What stupid fucking creatures. Good thing too. If they actually had > any > > > >>sort of intelligence they could take over the world. > > > > > > > >This is the 3rd time you've used the F word recently...... > > > > When will this entirely way too priggish society we live in get over > > itself already? One of the most enlightening moments I've had in recent > > years was when Hans Franke was visiting a few years back. We were > > watching some show on TV (probably on Comedy Central) where some swear > > words were bleeped out. I, of course, having been raised in this > > obnoxiously Puritanical society, did not flinch. But Hans was like, > > "What!?" He was befuddled. Over what I did not know. I thought maybe > > he didn't understand the joke that was said. No, no, he understood the > > joke just fine. He was shocked--shocked!--that the curse word was > > bleeped! This distinctly American practice had been lampooned on German > > television, and he thought it was just the Germans poking fun at the > > uptight Americans. He was astonished that the practice was real and > > alive in the 21st century! > > > > I am too! > > > > Grow up already! You're an adult now. Mom will not be washing your mouth > > out with soap. You can really say these words! Really! > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > Me , I want to know what the ants said in reply. Translation anyone - > looking for a babel fish......... > I was up on the scaffolding outside my house today (we're having some > cladding fitted ) fitting up my uhf aerial in a higher position when a > squadron of flying ants descended on everything - from the park at the back > of the house. I'm afraid I outdid Sellam , and ,statistically speaking , you > wouldn't expect that many ants to be illegitimate. They wouldn't go away so > I had to come inside , it's a bit dangerous when you're up high and ants are > exploring every part of your anatomy ; I've just had a shower and two came > out of my hair- silly little buggers. You are sure that they were ants and not termites? - don > What's this got to do with fucking computers anyway ? ................... > Where's the soap ? - Yes doesn't it ! ( Two nuns in the bath - old > Morecambe & Wise joke ) > > Geoff. > > From mcesari at comcast.net Wed Jul 28 00:28:42 2004 From: mcesari at comcast.net (Mike Cesari) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: 8" floppy project In-Reply-To: <20040728044733.GD15109@bos7.spole.gov> References: <4106AE3F.1090403@mdrconsult.com> <20040727194931.F3572@newshell.lmi.net> <410721A9.8020101@mdrconsult.com> <20040728040754.GA15109@bos7.spole.gov> <41072C2A.2010309@mdrconsult.com> <20040728044733.GD15109@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: On Jul 27, 2004, at 10:47 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 11:31:38PM -0500, Doc Shipley wrote: >> OK. I've heard yea and nay on this count. >> >> You're saying that on an RT-11 system (no OS/8 or its hardware to >> play with), I can take an "IBM 3740 Compatible" SSSD disk out of the >> box, run FORMAT/DOUBLE, and have an RX02 diskette? That would help >> quite a lot. > > AFAIK, yes... that's true. The RX01 media that DEC used to sell was > "IBM 3740 Compatible", and that's what I remember doing to "turn" > RX01Ks > into RX02Ks on an RT-11 system. If anyone has any contradictory > information, please feel free to pipe up. > >> Hmm. I need to see if I have a Qbus RXV21 that can run in a 22-bit >> system. Does VMS/VAX support RX02? > > I'm pretty sure VMS supports it, but my only experience is with Unibus > hardware - an RX211 on a VAX-11/750. I would hope that an RXV21 works > in a Qbus VAX, but I can't speak from experience. > To format, the VMS command is: INITIALIZE/DENSITY=double. Both QBUS and UNIBUS interfaces are supported. If you have XXDP for the PDP-11, you can format diskettes on an rx02 using the ZRXE program. SSSD diskettes work fine. Mike From micheladam at theedge.ca Wed Jul 28 00:51:54 2004 From: micheladam at theedge.ca (Michel Adam) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Now easier for people to get HP2000/Access up (was: MoreHPmicrocode & loader rom detective work) In-Reply-To: <004f01c47446$96a672c0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: Well, It could very well be that '2000G' was just an HP internal project designation for the next version, before someone decided to change the name (marketing ?) and release it as 'Access'. I remember calling HP in Montreal and trying to get the next version of the documentation (after F) and kept asking for 'G', and being told that it was 'Access' now... Pure speculation on my part, but it wouldn't be the first time a project designation changed partway through... Michel -----Original Message----- > I was under the impression that '2000/Access' was the last incarnation. Nope. "2000 System" was. At least by HP. > What > more functionality and/or language features did the '2000 System' have over > the 'Access' version? I'd love to know. I am not aware of any surviving OS distributions for it, nor any operator/user manuals. Some general manuals do mention it however. >Is there anywhere on the web a document explaining it? There are several manuals and such on the web, and several manuals in my posession... that mention it's existence, as well as giving the HP product number for the OS distribution, which is different from 2000/Access product number. In addition, (now I'm delving into totally unsubstantiated rumor)...I had heard from a source that when HP discontinued TSB, it was taken over by a third party that enhanced it and called it "2000G". I'm starting to discount that though as I've never found ANY corroboration for his story. But, with regard to 2000/Access & 2000 System.... the manual is pretty corroborative :) Jay West From wayne.smith at charter.net Wed Jul 28 02:25:13 2004 From: wayne.smith at charter.net (Wayne Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Cirris 1000 In-Reply-To: <200407280450.i6S4nvbc021146@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000901c47474$092d0430$6501a8c0@Wayne> Holy moley! Speaking of word usage, I sure hope there's nobody from Wales on this list. -W > Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 20:56:17 -0400 > From: "Joe R." > Subject: Re: Cirris 1000 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040727205617.00b46680@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Jim, > > Yes I still have it. The winnng bidder welshed out and > never paid for it. BTW note my address above. The address > that you sent the message to is for a mailing list. > > Joe > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jul 28 05:23:54 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Suspicious off-list e-mail requests? Hardly... (was Re: Shure AMS8000 mixer.) In-Reply-To: <410720F9.4070201@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <410720F9.4070201@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <1091010234.11475.0.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-07-28 at 03:43, ben franchuk wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > penes (<-- plural form of "penis"...I > > had to look it up. "Penises" is also acceptable but how many chances do > > you get to use the obscure plural form of "penis"?) > > > Why is there a plural anyhow? As far as I know you only get *one* per > customer. :) Yes, but 'penes' can be applied to any gathering of Micro$oft employees... From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jul 28 05:44:58 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Intel D82284 datasheet.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1091011498.11475.19.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-07-27 at 22:13, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > Anyone happen to have a copy of the Intel D82284 IC (18 pin DIL) > > datasheet? I think it's some form of clock generator IC; I have an 80286 > > I have the 82C284 data sheet, which is the CMOS version. I assume it's > very similar.. It's described as 'Clock Generator and Ready Interface for > 80286 Porcessors', and I remmeebr it being used in the IBM PC/AT. Yep, I actually stumbled across the same IC by accident and did find the datasheet for that one; I'm also assuming that they're compatible. The datasheet does say that the chip's designed for the 80C286, but I'm presuming they're interchangeable (particularly for my purposes at present of just making sure it's doing *something*) > Most 286 machines were pretty close to the IBM PC/AT schematic. Do you > have access to the TechRef? Hmm, we'll have one at Bletchley. This is actually for the 286 coprocessor board in my newly-aquired Acorn ABC 310, but the techref should still contain a lot of relevant stuff. Service manuals for the machine do survive *somewhere* in the original owner's attic, so I can get my paws on them later this year when he finds them; but as the chap whose hands this machine just passed through saw it boot once I'm hopeful I can sort it out before then. I'm yet to hear an estimate of the number of such boards made - they were never sold commercially by Acorn, but apparently did get used in-house for a lot of the development work on the Master 512 copro (indeed, mine has Master 512 ROMs fitted). Presumably cost kept Acorn from just using the 286 as the coprocessor in the Master 512. The board I have is an issue D, but I'm not aware of any other survivors, other than in the original owner's '310 (yes, he had two, and the empty shell of a third). Presumably issues A-C existed only on paper, breadboards in the lab etc. cheers, Jules From dave04a at dunfield.com Wed Jul 28 06:07:08 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer Message-ID: <20040728110707.QWTY3702.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> > Does anyone have some schematics and software (would be great) for a > little homebrewed Eprom Programmer which works with a standard PC > parallel-port or ISA slot? I have a hardware/software design for a simple EPROM programmer on my site ... unfortunately, it was designed years ago when I was still fairly new at hardware design and it shows ... Works well however and I still use one of them from time to time (quicker and easier than my 29B). It's completely stand-alone with a 8-digit LED display and a keypad. It can upload/download Intel or Motorola HEX format data via a serial port, and also has a "remote" mode for total computer control. It only does 2716, 2732, 2764, 27128 and 27256 family devices (all I needed at the time), although you could design adapters and modify the code to support other devices if you wanted (I did one for 8051's at one point). Parts might be a bit hard to find now - uses a 6809 CPU, 6821 PIA, a 6551 UART, a few 6264 SRAM's, a handful of latches and 3-4 relays to move the power/programming voltage around (ok - I didn't know a better way at the time). You could redesign it using a modern single-chip MCU and better power control and reduce the parts count considerably. You could make a much simpler device if you want to make it rely on a PeeCee and it's parallel port - I did a "quickie" 29040 flash programmer a few years back which was literally nothing more than 3 8-bit latches and a decoder chip (and some software on the PC side). Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From stephane.tsacas at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 06:24:31 2004 From: stephane.tsacas at gmail.com (Stephane Tsacas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Books on ebay, IBM 'RPG' language Message-ID: Maybe these 2 books will be of interest : The Programmer's RPG: A Complete Reference 1970! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3522&item=5110215952 and System/360:Report Program Generator by Bernard 1970! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3522&item=5110215048 (I'am not affiliated with this seller, except that I bought a databook from her, not yet received anyway). Stephane From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Jul 28 07:10:04 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Now easier for people to get HP2000/Access up (was: MoreHPmicrocode & loader rom detective work) References: Message-ID: <008b01c4749b$d0a8e8e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > It could very well be that '2000G' was just an HP internal project designation > for the next version, before someone decided to change the name (marketing ?) > and release it as 'Access'. Since it was rumored to be a 3rd party thing, it wouldn't be an HP internal project designation. Plus, it came after TSB was end-of-lifed - which would have been well after "access". IF the story is true, my guess is some company took it over and never released the product - G being the "plan". Who knows. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From geoffreythomas at onetel.com Wed Jul 28 03:27:27 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.com (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity - language? References: Message-ID: <006301c4747c$c51d1240$0200a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: "Geoffrey Thomas" ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 6:28 AM Subject: Re: Insect Conductivity - language? > You are sure that they were ants and not termites? > > - don > I wooden know. > > Geoff. > > > > > From geoffreythomas at onetel.com Wed Jul 28 03:25:05 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.com (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Suspicious off-list e-mail requests? Hardly... (was Re: Shure AMS8000 mixer.) References: Message-ID: <006201c4747c$c4f258c0$0200a8c0@geoff> The Australians ( according to Barry McKenzie ) have a saying relating to this - " He'd have to have two pricks too.... " i.e. You couldn't get as silly as that just playing with one ..... Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Donzelli" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 4:54 AM Subject: Re: Suspicious off-list e-mail requests? Hardly... (was Re: Shure AMS8000 mixer.) > > Why is there a plural anyhow? As far as I know you only get *one* per > > customer. :) > > There is a very rare mutation...seriously... > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > From RMaxwell at atlantissi.com Wed Jul 28 08:11:37 2004 From: RMaxwell at atlantissi.com (RMaxwell@atlantissi.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer Message-ID: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F128DB@INETMAIL> Wolfgang, Philip Pemberton is right... it's not difficult, and for programming 2716, 2732 and 2532, it's even easier. The 4040 CMOS counter has exactly the right number of outputs to handle all 12 address lines on a 2?32, and the programming specifications for all those devices allow for a fixed-length programming pulse, so the programmer can receive the byte, set BUSY on the Centronics interface, time the 50ms locally, then clear BUSY to accept the next byte... print your EPROM! I know this well, because that's how I did it. I've used it with a Sol-20, OSI Superboard 2, and IBM XT clone. If you would like the schematics for my version (which assumes 2 unidirectional parallel interfaces - one each direction - very common at the time), just let me know and I will scan them (2 letter-size pages) into your preferred format and e-mail them. The BASIC program I wrote is for the Superboard, so the hardware stuff won't apply, but the program is reasonably structured... for BASIC. Best regards, Bob Maxwell > -----Original Message----- > (snip...) > There were many Eprom Programmers back when the 2532 etc. > were actual which > were designed for popular homecomputers (I own one for my > Pet too and know > of many for C=64). Many of these devices were "homebrewed > gear" or sold as > kits. But after lots of time googling around I haven't > found much stuff > about this old eproms. Okay, I have at least a bunch of > datasheets and some > schematics where ex. the 2532 were used and learned a lot > of early 1980's > hardware basics :) But I could not find some schematics > (and software) of > Eprom programmers dedicated to this chips. My (maybe dumb) > question: Does > anyone have some schematics and software (would be great) > for a little > homebrewed Eprom Programmer which works with a standard PC > parallel-port or > ISA slot? This would be a great project for rainy winter > days :) > > Best Regards, > Wolfgang From kirill at lava.net Wed Jul 28 08:35:21 2004 From: kirill at lava.net (Kirill Levchenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tuesday, July 27, 2004, at 11:57 AM, McFadden, Mike wrote: > I saw this today on USA today website. I've been scanning 50 year old > slides to CD's and I still have my older PDP-11 data backed up as paper > listings and now on CD's. This is the paradox of digital archival: while the data can be copied indefinitely without loss of quality, the life expectancy of the storage medium is nowhere near traditional media. Cheap recordable compact discs are notorious for their short life expectancy, and I would urge caution in anyone relying on them to save important data. Kirill From jrice54 at vzavenue.net Wed Jul 28 08:39:59 2004 From: jrice54 at vzavenue.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4107ACAF.4070803@vzavenue.net> There is a major problem with ants crawling into A/C condensing units and fouling the contactors. It''s a prime source of income for HVAC contractors in the summer in Texas. The contactors make around $200 profit for each service call and it takes around 15 minutes to change the contactor. They can be taken apart and cleaned or the contacts rekitted, but nobody bothers, just swap the part and get on to the next call. This is in Texas of course. James >You are sure that they were ants and not termites? > > > -- www.blackcube.org The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Wed Jul 28 08:51:55 2004 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: <006301c4747c$c51d1240$0200a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: On Wednesday, July 28, 2004 4:27 AM Geoffrey Thomas had the unabridged gall to write: > > You are sure that they were ants and not termites? > > > > - don > > > I wooden know. > NO! NO! Do _NOT_ go there! Complaints about profanity are one thing, but _PUNS_WILL_NOT_BE_TOLERATED_! ;-) Bill From swtpc6800 at comcast.net Wed Jul 28 09:54:20 2004 From: swtpc6800 at comcast.net (swtpc6800@comcast.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: VCF Security Message-ID: <072820041454.6987.4107BE1C00064F0F00001B4B22007340760603970A04040108@comcast.net> I am considering having an exhibit at the next Vintage Computer Festival (7.0). I was wondering what the security is like for the exhibits. Do you need to packup up each night? I would like to here comment from those who were there (Computer History Museum) last year. Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley From aek at spies.com Wed Jul 28 10:39:27 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Now easier for people to get HP2000/Access up (was: MoreHPmicrocode & loader rom detective work) Message-ID: <20040728153927.DF4BB3CBF@spies.com> Timesharing Consultants (TSC) sold a version of TSB for a while. I got a couple of hibernate tapes from him, which is probably where the IOP board came from Apparently the systems were called TSC-200 and TSC-300. Mike Gemeny may know more about this. From trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Wed Jul 28 10:25:18 2004 From: trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (trash3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: 8" floppy project Message-ID: <040728112518.1468f@splab.cas.neu.edu> I've stuck my RX02/RXV21 into my microvax and used it. However, I prefer the DSD880 subsystems, as they have formatting built into the front panel and firmware. I also prefer to run RT-11 to do all the fooling around, not VMS/Unix/RSX/RSTS,etc. If I recall, the DSD box or the SMS/Qualogy boxes used the standard 850/851 drives. I haven't powered up the DSD 440 floppy subsystem I have, but I'll bet that does both/all three densities. I have some OLD 8 inch IBM drives in external boxes. Never opened them. If you want to try one in the project, let me know, you can have one. No idea of the model or if they are single density. I'll pop one open if you want. Joe Heck From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jul 28 10:46:16 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: 8" floppy project In-Reply-To: <20040728043657.GC15109@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I don't recall either. For those that don't know, the Amiga doesn't have > a traditional FDC chip - it uses a massive shift register in the sound chip > to clock pre-encoded data on and off the disk, and uses logic functions of > the graphics chip to convert entire tracks to and from MFM encoding. That's > how they get 11 sectors/track - the intersector gaps are tiny compared to > what a sector-oriented controller needs. So what happens if you try to do disk access while displaying animations? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Jul 28 10:32:09 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Now easier for people to get HP2000/Access up (was:MoreHPmicrocode & loader rom detective work) References: <20040728153927.DF4BB3CBF@spies.com> Message-ID: <013901c474b8$0bcceb80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > Timesharing Consultants (TSC) sold a version of TSB for a while. I got > a couple of hibernate tapes from him, which is probably where the IOP > board came from > > Apparently the systems were called TSC-200 and TSC-300. Mike Gemeny may > know more about this. Ew Ew Ew Mr. Kottaiiiiir Ew Ew Ew! I'd *LOVE* to hear any more details about this! Mike? Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jul 28 10:59:46 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: VCF Security In-Reply-To: <072820041454.6987.4107BE1C00064F0F00001B4B22007340760603970A04040108@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 swtpc6800@comcast.net wrote: > I am considering having an exhibit at the next Vintage Computer Festival > (7.0). I was wondering what the security is like for the exhibits. Do > you need to packup up each night? I would like to here comment from > those who were there (Computer History Museum) last year. Hi Michael. I can tell you that in the eight years we've been doing the VCF and across the 14 events we've done, we've never had any problems at all with theft. With regards to the VCF's held at the Computer History Museum, the exhibits stay overnight in a locked, secured museum. Attendees are only allowed in the exhibit area during exhibit hours, which is also when the exhitors are in there. The only people allowed in there during off hours are other exhibitors and VCF/Museum staff. We also have minders hanging out in the hall during open exhibit hours. You needn't worry about security. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Jul 28 11:08:06 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity - language? Message-ID: <200407281608.JAA22155@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Don Maslin" > > > ---snip--- >You are sure that they were ants and not termites? > > - don Hi Does anyone have the definitive answer as to which has the lowest DC and AC resistance? An ant or a termite? Also, how does that resistance vary over time of use? I want to see graphs and statistics. Different species might also be an additional variable. Dwight From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Jul 28 11:10:55 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Suspicious off-list e-mail requests? Hardly... (was Re: Shure AMS8000 mixer.) Message-ID: <200407281610.JAA22160@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jules Richardson" > >On Wed, 2004-07-28 at 03:43, ben franchuk wrote: >> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >> > On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >> penes (<-- plural form of "penis"...I >> > had to look it up. "Penises" is also acceptable but how many chances do >> > you get to use the obscure plural form of "penis"?) >> > >> Why is there a plural anyhow? As far as I know you only get *one* per >> customer. :) > >Yes, but 'penes' can be applied to any gathering of Micro$oft >employees... > > > Hi I think they are call a group of weenies. Dwight From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 28 11:12:55 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: OT language crap Re: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040727205204.00b46e40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040728121255.008b86f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:06 PM 7/27/04 -0700, Sellam wrote: >On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> At 07:23 AM 7/27/04 -0700, Sellam wrote: >> >> >I have yet to hear a rational reason why anyone should not feel free to >> >use the words of their choosing. Because, after all, they are just words. >> >> Boy, that's certainly not the reaction that I got from you over the use >> of the word Fag. Do I sense a double standard here? > >That's because calling someone a "fag" is somewhat like calling someone a >"nigger". You just don't do that unless you really want to offend >someone. Ed and others feel exactly the same way about your use of the word F**K. Anyway you were the one that said that it's only a word. Are you now saying that some words are exceptable but some aren't? If so, then by who's standard? Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 28 11:14:35 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040727214159.00b46d70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040728121435.008c0590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:33 AM 7/28/04 +0100, you wrote: >> >2) Many of the modern cheap programmers need a PC/Windows, which not all >> >of us have, or care to have >> >> The only PC connected ones that I have all run from DOS. If you can't > >I try to avoid MS-DOS too, apart from the version that runs on the HP110, >and so on... > >> find a PC then use one of the stand alone models like the Data IO 29B. >> >> >> > >> >3) Many modern programmers do not support older EPROMs. Heck, some of >> >them no longer support any Vpp higher than 12.5V. This is a problem if >> >you want to program those 2732s.... >> >> The only thing that my Data I/O 29Bs, Stags, and other programmer won't >> program are 1702s. But I have two Pro-Log units that will handle those. I >> haven't paid more than $10 for any of the programmers that I have. > >I don't beleive those are still in production (and if they are, they're >not cheap new). And if I buy second-hand equipment, I expect to have to >repair it, and I would guess that service information is not (easily) >available. You're right, they're not still in production but they handle every EPROM, PAL and PROM that I'm interested in so what's wrong with them? The fact that they're out of production just makes them cheap and readily available on the used equipment market. Info for the Data IO 29B is available on-line. In fact, I think it's on Al's site. The Needham unit is simple enough that it shouldn't be take more than a couple of minutes to figure out. As far as repairs go, the only used units that I've gotten that don't work are a couple of Pro-Log units. The Data I/O stuff seems to be built like a tank. All the Needham and Stag stuff also works fine. > > >> >> it's an eductional thing but hanostly can't you find a better way to use >> > >> >And yes it is an educational project. >> >> So are Tinker Toys but I passed that stage long ago. > >Never haard of it, but I sure haven't grown out of Meccano or Fischer >Technik.... TinkerToys are wooden sticks that you can put together with blocks and wheels with holes in them at various angles and make simple projects. Very suitable for 4 year olds. > >> >> >> > >> >> your time than to reinvent the EPROM programmer for the 10,000th time? >> > >> >> >Care to suggest some??? >> >> Is this a trick question? I guess you don't get out much. Here's the >> short list: Cold beer, hot cars, hot women, sports, tv, movies, old >> computers, friends, traveling, pets, reading, family, tending my garden, >> taking care of my house, etc etc etc. > >I truely pity anyoe who regards drinking alcohol, women, sports, TV (at >least the TV we get over here), (watching) movies as being more >interesting than constructing anything. Well I know I'm a lot more selective about my TV and movies than the majority of people but are you trying to tell me that there's NOTHING worth watching on TV or movies? What do you have against women, beer and sports? You also overlooked the rest of the list or do you have something against all of them too? > >> >> But just to keep things on topic I have a whole house full of computers >> and ANY of them is a lot more interesting than an EPROM programmer.* A have >> a GOOD number of them that I've never even turned on due to lack of time. > >So do I, but sometimes I need a change from debugging an old machine. So do I but as I pointed out I have plenty of things to hold my interest instead of designing and building $20 appliances. > >> won't program. To me an EPROM programmer is an appliance like my microwave >> oven and I give it about as much consideration. I just don't see the point > >I haev never treated anything as just an appliance... If you spend as much time, money and energy on a Microwave oven (or an EPROM programmer) as you would, say, a PDP-8 then something is seriously wrong IMO. Joe > >-tony > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 28 11:15:30 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <20040727215229.I3572@newshell.lmi.net> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040728121530.008c2e20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:57 PM 7/27/04 -0700, Fred wrote: >On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Tony Duell wrote: >> > So are Tinker Toys but I passed that stage long ago. >> Never haard of it, but I sure haven't grown out of Meccano or Fischer >> Technik.... > >Rods and hubs. >Good for molecule models, etc., but not as versatile as an "Erector Set". >George Morrow named his company "Thinker Toys" as a play on the name. >(But then he changed it to "Morrow Designs" when the industry lost >its sense of humor.) > > >> > Is this a trick question? I guess you don't get out much. Here's the >> > short list: Cold beer, hot cars, hot women, sports, tv, movies, old >> > computers, friends, traveling, pets, reading, family, tending my greden, >> > taking care of my house, etc etc etc. >> >> I truely pity anyoe who regards drinking alcohol, women, sports, TV (at >> least the TV we get over here), (watching) movies as being more >> interesting than constructing anything. > > >The right women can be. > The movie line "Until you've had a good glass of whiskey and a fine cigar, you're missing out on the second and third best things in life." comes to mind :-) That has got to be one of the all time classic lines IMO. But I guess the ones of you that never watch TV or movies completely miss the point. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 28 11:11:26 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040728121126.009b9530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:35 AM 7/28/04 -0400, you wrote: >On Tuesday, July 27, 2004, at 11:57 AM, McFadden, Mike wrote: > >> I saw this today on USA today website. I've been scanning 50 year old >> slides to CD's and I still have my older PDP-11 data backed up as paper >> listings and now on CD's. > >This is the paradox of digital archival: while the data can be copied >indefinitely without loss of quality, the life expectancy of the >storage medium is nowhere near traditional media. Cheap recordable >compact discs are notorious for their short life expectancy, The problem is that AFIK no one has found ANY CD disks that are reliable. Several people that have been interviewed in national publications explictly pointed out that they bought top quality disks but they were still unreliable. In fact, it didn't appear that there was much difference between the cheap ones and the expensive ones. Joe and I >would urge caution in anyone relying on them to save important data. > >Kirill > > From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jul 28 11:35:45 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity - language? References: <200407281608.JAA22155@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <004e01c474c0$eedde980$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwight K. Elvey" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 12:08 PM Subject: Re: Insect Conductivity - language? > >From: "Don Maslin" > > > > > > > ---snip--- > >You are sure that they were ants and not termites? > > > > - don > > Hi > Does anyone have the definitive answer as to which has > the lowest DC and AC resistance? An ant or a termite? > Also, how does that resistance vary over time of use? > I want to see graphs and statistics. Different species > might also be an additional variable. > Dwight > > > All kidding aside I assume that ants themselves are not conductive enough to short 120VAC, instead its the moisture (or bug spray) on their surface that bridges the gap for electricity. From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jul 28 11:35:40 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: 8" floppy project In-Reply-To: <040728112518.1468f@splab.cas.neu.edu> References: <040728112518.1468f@splab.cas.neu.edu> Message-ID: <4107D5DC.5000201@mdrconsult.com> trash3@splab.cas.neu.edu wrote: > I've stuck my RX02/RXV21 into my microvax and used it. However, I prefer > the DSD880 subsystems, as they have formatting built into the front panel > and firmware. I also prefer to run RT-11 to do all the fooling around, > not VMS/Unix/RSX/RSTS,etc. If I recall, the DSD box or the SMS/Qualogy > boxes used the standard 850/851 drives. I haven't powered up the DSD > 440 floppy subsystem I have, but I'll bet that does both/all three > densities. Man, I'd love to have a DSD880 setup, but nobody's offered one for sale or trade lately.... I have a suspicion that this 3rd-party Unibus controller does the same basic thing, and I found a reference to it using standard 851 drives, but I can't find any more than that. For the immediate project, I'm OK. I have some SSSD blanks, I have RT-11, and I _think_ the 11/83 is speaking to the RXV21 correctly. I just need to sit down with the RT-11 docs (OK, *find* them first) and learn how to dup and verify a system disk. > I have some OLD 8 inch IBM drives in external boxes. Never opened them. > If you want to try one in the project, let me know, you can have one. > No idea of the model or if they are single density. I'll pop one open > if you want. The enclosure would be very welcome. The YE Data drive (a YD-180) that I'm fooling with actually came out of an AS/400. I don't suppose you have any controllers or the external cables for them? We should probably take this off-list. Doc From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jul 28 11:40:37 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's References: <3.0.6.32.20040728121126.009b9530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <005701c474c1$9ca1b510$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 12:11 PM Subject: Re: Article on data rot on CD's > At 09:35 AM 7/28/04 -0400, you wrote: > >On Tuesday, July 27, 2004, at 11:57 AM, McFadden, Mike wrote: > > > >> I saw this today on USA today website. I've been scanning 50 year old > >> slides to CD's and I still have my older PDP-11 data backed up as paper > >> listings and now on CD's. > > > >This is the paradox of digital archival: while the data can be copied > >indefinitely without loss of quality, the life expectancy of the > >storage medium is nowhere near traditional media. Cheap recordable > >compact discs are notorious for their short life expectancy, > > > The problem is that AFIK no one has found ANY CD disks that are > reliable. Several people that have been interviewed in national > publications explictly pointed out that they bought top quality disks but > they were still unreliable. In fact, it didn't appear that there was much > difference between the cheap ones and the expensive ones. > > Joe > > > > > and I > >would urge caution in anyone relying on them to save important data. > > > >Kirill > > > > > I would imagine that the CD itself is not the same as what was made 10 years ago. Anything that used to cost $8.00 a disc and can now be purchased for $0.20 a disc is most likely made by a different process and uses a different phase change dye. From kth at srv.net Wed Jul 28 11:55:13 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: <200407281608.JAA22155@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200407281608.JAA22155@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <4107DA71.7080300@srv.net> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi > > Does anyone have the definitive answer as to which has >the lowest DC and AC resistance? An ant or a termite? >Also, how does that resistance vary over time of use? >I want to see graphs and statistics. Different species >might also be an additional variable. >Dwight > > Data Sheets! We need the data sheets! Anyone have the correct data sheets? With that information you could plug your critter into a curve tracer and determine what it is. Maybe the application notes would help. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jul 28 11:45:01 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040728121435.008c0590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Joe R. wrote: > TinkerToys are wooden sticks that you can put together with blocks and > wheels with holes in them at various angles and make simple projects. Very > suitable for 4 year olds. Yet complex enough to build a digital Tic-Tac-Toe computer: http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/naha/TT-tic-tac-toe/readme.html > >> Is this a trick question? I guess you don't get out much. Here's the > >> short list: Cold beer, hot cars, hot women, sports, tv, movies, old > >> computers, friends, traveling, pets, reading, family, tending my garden, > >> taking care of my house, etc etc etc. > > > >I truely pity anyoe who regards drinking alcohol, women, sports, TV (at > >least the TV we get over here), (watching) movies as being more > >interesting than constructing anything. > > Well I know I'm a lot more selective about my TV and movies than the > majority of people but are you trying to tell me that there's NOTHING worth > watching on TV or movies? What do you have against women, beer and sports? > You also overlooked the rest of the list or do you have something against > all of them too? I suppose it would depend on the computer or the woman. I've met some women that are far more interesting than computers (and much more fun to play with). I've met some women that are way less interesting than computers (and dumber too). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jul 28 11:52:36 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040728121435.008c0590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040727214159.00b46d70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040728121435.008c0590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <4107D9D4.6050704@mdrconsult.com> Joe R. wrote: > At 05:33 AM 7/28/04 +0100, you wrote: > TinkerToys are wooden sticks that you can put together with blocks and > wheels with holes in them at various angles and make simple projects. Very > suitable for 4 year olds. And some days, very suitable for 46 year olds. I sat at my brother's house one Sunday and designed a network for a client using a big box of TinkerToys. Sometimes a tangible model beats diagrams and flow charts all to pieces. Doc From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jul 28 11:53:43 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: OT language crap Re: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040728121255.008b86f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >That's because calling someone a "fag" is somewhat like calling someone a > >"nigger". You just don't do that unless you really want to offend > >someone. > > Ed and others feel exactly the same way about your use of the word F**K. Nope, I'm not using the word to insult someone. In this particular case I was using the gerund form, and also as an adverb. I was not using it as an insult against a particular person or group of people. That's a major difference. > Anyway you were the one that said that it's only a word. Are you now > saying that some words are exceptable but some aren't? If so, then by > who's standard? As I've said before, use any language that you please. You just won't be hearing me using offensive epithets. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Jul 28 11:58:40 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: OT language crap Re: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200407281700.NAA28980@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > As I've said before, use any language that you please. You just > won't be hearing me using offensive epithets. Epithets, perhaps not, but there are plenty of people who are offended by the language you did use. (_I_ think any such are too wrapped up in bluenoseism, but if avoiding offense really is what you're aiming for, they likely should be taken into account.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jul 28 12:31:04 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: OT language crap Re: Insect Conductivity - language? References: Message-ID: <009301c474c8$aa433930$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 12:53 PM Subject: Re: OT language crap Re: Insect Conductivity - language? > On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Joe R. wrote: > > > >That's because calling someone a "fag" is somewhat like calling someone a > > >"nigger". You just don't do that unless you really want to offend > > >someone. > > > > Ed and others feel exactly the same way about your use of the word F**K. > > Nope, I'm not using the word to insult someone. In this particular case I > was using the gerund form, and also as an adverb. I was not using it as > an insult against a particular person or group of people. That's a major > difference. > > > Anyway you were the one that said that it's only a word. Are you now > > saying that some words are exceptable but some aren't? If so, then by > > who's standard? > > As I've said before, use any language that you please. You just won't be > hearing me using offensive epithets. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival Some words you just don't use (when is the last time you found the word "cunt" to be useful in general conversation with people you don't know?). Other words have different levels of being offensive depending on who is using it and who its being directed to. Black guy talking to another black guy "what's up my nigger" (they are friends) White guy in the KKK wearing a white sheet calling a black guy "nigger" in a menacing way. Telling somebody to "go fuck themselves" is offensive but saying "what the fuck" when somebody does a major screwup is not the same. If you stay away from words that are banned from public TV during prime time I guess you are safe with the majority of the public (assuming your not talking about religion, politics, drugs, race, sex, asking people what they earn, guns, abortion, evolution, athletic team mascots, confederate flags, pledge of allegiance, violence, nudity, terrorism, the truth, ________________ <=======< Insert anything interesting here). There probably isn't a single subject you can talk about that doesn't offend some group or individual in some way these days, political correctness sucks! From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Jul 28 12:35:08 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:33 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity - language? Message-ID: <200407281735.KAA22266@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Kevin Handy" > >Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >> Hi >> >> Does anyone have the definitive answer as to which has >>the lowest DC and AC resistance? An ant or a termite? >>Also, how does that resistance vary over time of use? >>I want to see graphs and statistics. Different species >>might also be an additional variable. >>Dwight >> >> >Data Sheets! We need the data sheets! Anyone have the correct data >sheets? With that information you could plug your critter into a curve >tracer and determine what it is. > >Maybe the application notes would help. > > Hi You realise that insects only have 6 pins with at most two test leads. True bugs can have most any number of pins, so long as it is an even number. I believe that some like to use them in the bulk sense but just some notes on the proper way to connect the pins can be useful. Dwight From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed Jul 28 12:47:33 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: VCF Security In-Reply-To: <072820041454.6987.4107BE1C00064F0F00001B4B22007340760603970A04040108@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000101c474ca$f618c210$6e7ba8c0@p933> Security is absolutely not an issue. The museum itself has a very good security system - they are in the old SGI headquarters building and those with displays tend to look out for each other as well. The biggest concern I ever had was during the day when folks were free to wander the exhibits. I, too, wanted to attend lectures and look around and was a bit concerned about leaving my stuff unattended. As it turned out, that concern was unfounded. People were very respectful of everyone's gear and other exhibitors were minding things anyway. I've attended the last two VCFs and intend to display again this year and I haven't had or heard of a security related problem. If you're interested in some pictures, please browse through www.vintage-computer.com/vcf5.shtml and www.vintage-computer.com/vcf6.shtml Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of swtpc6800@comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 7:54 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: VCF Security I am considering having an exhibit at the next Vintage Computer Festival (7.0). I was wondering what the security is like for the exhibits. Do you need to packup up each night? I would like to here comment from those who were there (Computer History Museum) last year. Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley From jdbryan at acm.org Wed Jul 28 11:58:07 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: More HP microcode & loader rom detective work In-Reply-To: <005a01c473e6$da721b40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200407281658.i6SGw8ak021887@mail.bcpl.net> On 27 Jul 2004 at 9:34, Jay West wrote: > But a few lines in various docs make me think that perhaps older rev E > series didn't have FP built in. Which docs and which lines? I'll check my March 1977 HP Journal that introduces the E-series, but as far as I know, all MX machines had floating point routines built in. > Some docs mention that when ordering FFP, you can specify option -100 > to get some additional roms, necessary for E series machines with a > serial number less than 21XX (co-incidence on the rev number). I'm > guessing that the additional roms are FP? No, they're DMS. From the "HP 1000 M/E/F-Series Hardware Technical Data" brochure, HP 5953-2832, August 1982, page 6-2: "If the Fast FORTRAN Processor is ordered for a machine which does not have the 13307B Dynamic Mapping Instructions, 13306B option 100 must be ordered; the 13307B contains part of the FFP." > The roms in question are: > > 13306-80013 > 13306-80014 > 13306-80015 > 13306-80016 > 13306-80017 > 13306-80018 The "ROM Part Number History" from the "Communicator/1000 for Software Update 6.0" (HP 5951-6201) lists those ROMs as part of the "E-Series Fast FORTRAN Processor ROMs (modules 33, 34, 35)." E-Series DMS ROMs (module 32) were 13307-80027 through -80032. The next update combined the 1K FFP and DMS ROMs into the set 13037-80033 through -80035 and 5090-0589 through -0591 (4K ROMs). -- Dave From jdbryan at acm.org Wed Jul 28 12:02:07 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: More HP microcode & loader rom detective work In-Reply-To: <005a01c473e6$da721b40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200407281702.i6SH28R0025757@mail.bcpl.net> On 27 Jul 2004 at 9:34, Jay West wrote: > But a few lines in various docs make me think that perhaps older rev E > series didn't have FP built in. Forgot to point out that the ROM Part Number History cited in my earlier message shows that the first update to the E-series base set ROMs was to "Fix bug in floating point routine," strongly suggesting that FP was present in the original E-series ROMs. -- Dave From waisun.chia at hp.com Wed Jul 28 12:44:42 2004 From: waisun.chia at hp.com (Wai-Sun Chia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: RX50 Dis/assembly.. In-Reply-To: <200407272038.QAA14638@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <000e01c4740a$8af1bd90$5b01a8c0@flexpc> <200407272038.QAA14638@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <4107E60A.8040508@hp.com> I'm really embarrassed, but guess what? I took apart my RX50 (cleaning/servicing..) but didn't bother to document where all the jumpers/headers go.. Well, when I try to put it back together, there's just 1 3-way header left which has THREE posibilities (board has 3 instances of 3-way male headers), and I don't know which one to put it to. The said 3-wire (red, blue, yellow) header originates from the optical slotted switch which detects (I think) the end of the tracks. It will terminate to one of the 3-way male headers at the SEEK/INTERFACE backboard (which is perpendicular to the main metal chassis. Here's some ASCII art of SIDE1 of the SEEK/INTERFACE backboard with all the headers: A B C V V V +------------------------------------------------+ | ++++ +++++ +++ +++ +++ | | | | | | ++++++ | | ++++++ | | | | | | | | | | + ++++ | | + ++++ | | + +------------------+ | | | |+ +-----+ | | | 2x17 Female BERG |+ +++++ |POWER| | +------------------------------------------------+ So the question is, does the slotted switch cable terminate at headers A, B, or C? /wai-sun From evan947 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 28 13:11:21 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: VCF Security In-Reply-To: <072820041454.6987.4107BE1C00064F0F00001B4B22007340760603970A04040108@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20040728181121.32578.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> Michael, I'll weigh in on this as well. I've been to two VCFs and had no problems. And, if anyone WOULD have a security problem, it would be me: I collect vintage handhelds and PDAs which are a heck of a lot easier to steal than someone's Altair or DEC box. I do take precautions when I want to look around the exhibit hall or attend a lecture -- for example, I set up my booth as late as possible before the doors open to the public, to minimize the time when my stuff is just sitting around; I always ask a nearby exhibitor to keep watch if I'm going away for food or to the bathroom or wherever; and as my collection grows, I'm transitioning from using cardboard boxes and suitcases to using professional / lockable display cases. But I digress... VCF is a super-safe event and we all look out for each other. - Evan --- swtpc6800@comcast.net wrote: > I am considering having an exhibit at the next Vintage Computer Festival > (7.0). I was wondering what the security is like for the exhibits. Do you > need to packup up each night? I would like to here comment from those who > were there (Computer History Museum) last year. > Michael Holley > www.swtpc.com/mholley > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jul 28 13:22:23 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's In-Reply-To: "Joe R." "Re: Article on data rot on CD's" (Jul 28, 12:11) References: <3.0.6.32.20040728121126.009b9530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <10407281922.ZM28583@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 28, 12:11, Joe R. wrote: > The problem is that AFIK no one has found ANY CD disks that are > reliable. Several people that have been interviewed in national > publications explictly pointed out that they bought top quality disks but > they were still unreliable. In fact, it didn't appear that there was much > difference between the cheap ones and the expensive ones. The other day I came across a table from a report showing the relative longevity of data on various media (DLT, CD-R, etc) at a variety of temperatures and humidities. I'll try and find it again and post some of the results. Some of you might be shocked. For example, a CD-R with an expected lifetime of something like 25 years (if I'm not misremembering the highest figure) under ideal conditions has a lifetime of only several *months* at higher temperatures (upper 20s C, that would be 80s F) and humidity. DLTs fared much much better. I have some CDs that were bought about 8 years ago because they were supposedly good quality, and burned in a highly-rated burner. Out of the first batch of ten, 4 are now unreadable or give multiple errors. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jul 28 13:33:58 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: VCF Security References: <20040728181121.32578.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00bc01c474d1$7220de00$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "evan" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 2:11 PM Subject: Re: VCF Security > Michael, > > I'll weigh in on this as well. I've been to two VCFs and had no problems. > And, if anyone WOULD have a security problem, it would be me: I collect vintage > handhelds and PDAs which are a heck of a lot easier to steal than someone's > Altair or DEC box. I do take precautions when I want to look around the > exhibit hall or attend a lecture -- for example, I set up my booth as late as > possible before the doors open to the public, to minimize the time when my > stuff is just sitting around; I always ask a nearby exhibitor to keep watch if > I'm going away for food or to the bathroom or wherever; and as my collection > grows, I'm transitioning from using cardboard boxes and suitcases to using > professional / lockable display cases. But I digress... VCF is a super-safe > event and we all look out for each other. > > - Evan > > > --- swtpc6800@comcast.net wrote: > I would expect a normal thief to look for items that are easily sold or pawned and hard to trace. Do you have the serial numbers written down for your PDA's and portables? Are they insured? The people you would have to watch out for are fellow collectors who might snag an item for their personal collection that very few people would ever know about. At the VCF how many people in the audience are there just to see old gear (like going to a museum) and how many are actual collectors of your specific gear? At the coin and stamp shows I have gone to in the past anything of value is shows behind a locked glass case. You can always do what stores do and place RFID tags somewhere in your expensive gear and have a detector at the front door so if somebody does try to walk out with your gear an alarm will go off. Is there a list of exhibitors that has an itemized list of what they brought including serial numbers incase something is left behind by accident? From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jul 28 13:51:35 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's References: <3.0.6.32.20040728121126.009b9530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <10407281922.ZM28583@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <00c301c474d3$e8637490$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Turnbull" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 2:22 PM Subject: Re: Article on data rot on CD's > On Jul 28, 12:11, Joe R. wrote: > > > The problem is that AFIK no one has found ANY CD disks that are > > reliable. Several people that have been interviewed in national > > publications explictly pointed out that they bought top quality disks > but > > they were still unreliable. In fact, it didn't appear that there was > much > > difference between the cheap ones and the expensive ones. > > The other day I came across a table from a report showing the relative > longevity of data on various media (DLT, CD-R, etc) at a variety of > temperatures and humidities. I'll try and find it again and post some > of the results. Some of you might be shocked. For example, a CD-R > with an expected lifetime of something like 25 years (if I'm not > misremembering the highest figure) under ideal conditions has a > lifetime of only several *months* at higher temperatures (upper 20s C, > that would be 80s F) and humidity. DLTs fared much much better. > > I have some CDs that were bought about 8 years ago because they were > supposedly good quality, and burned in a highly-rated burner. Out of > the first batch of ten, 4 are now unreadable or give multiple errors. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > Did the table show any data for what the actual failure mode of the CDs was? Heat and humidity oxidizing the reflective coating will kill a cd very quickly, but this assumes moisture can get through the protective coating. I would also like to know what affect printable adhesive labels have on media along with permanent markers used for labeling. Having a tested 25yr life on media doesn't mean much if a felt tipped sharpie marker can ruin a cd in a year or if the glue on a label can do the same. I have cds burned back in the mid 90's from a HP4020i 2x burner that was $1200 at the time and only had 1 failure that I know about and that was a backup OS cd I made that got beat around and scratched for years. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 28 13:56:11 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: OT language crap Re: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: <200407281700.NAA28980@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200407281700.NAA28980@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040728115426.D15878@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, der Mouse wrote: > Epithets, perhaps not, but there are plenty of people who are offended > by the language you did use. (_I_ think any such are too wrapped up in > bluenoseism, but if avoiding offense really is what you're aiming for, > they likely should be taken into account.) Does that mean that the words W*nd*ws and M*cr*S*ft are now off-limits? From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 28 14:08:38 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: VCF Security In-Reply-To: <20040728181121.32578.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040728181121.32578.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040728120454.T15878@newshell.lmi.net> When I leave my vendor stall, I remove some of the valuable items, and move some of the others to the back of the table. Last time, when I got back, somebody had replaced a couple of items from my dollar bin with dollar bills. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Jul 28 14:12:27 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's References: <3.0.6.32.20040728121126.009b9530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <10407281922.ZM28583@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <00c301c474d3$e8637490$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <16647.64155.921000.227978@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Teo" == Teo Zenios writes: Teo> .... I would also like to know what Teo> affect printable adhesive labels have on media... I have a simpler rule for those: "just say NO". I adopted that years ago when a CD drive almost rattled itself to pieces reading a CD with a sticky label on it. Even though the label appeared to be centered, it was sufficiently out of balance to make horrible vibration (and, of course, read errors). Add the fact that you will definite run into trouble when things get warm and the glue melts. In my opinion, there is NO excuse for those labels. None. paul From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Jul 28 13:55:57 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: J. David.... (HP roms) References: <200407281658.i6SGw8ak021887@mail.bcpl.net> Message-ID: <01cc01c474d4$847586c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I'm not getting my head around what you're saying... > No, they're DMS. From the "HP 1000 M/E/F-Series Hardware Technical Data" > brochure, HP 5953-2832, August 1982, page 6-2: Ok, so the 13306 numbers I mentioned are DMS. And DMS is required for FFP? Odd. > "If the Fast FORTRAN Processor is ordered for a machine which does > not have the 13307B Dynamic Mapping Instructions, 13306B option 100 > must be ordered; the 13307B contains part of the FFP." I thought the manual said "does not have the...DMS... 13307B option 100 must be ordered..." (not 13306B). And 13307B only contains PART of the FFP? I was thinking the 13306B was strictly DMS based on the above and 13307B was strictly FFP. > The "ROM Part Number History" from the "Communicator/1000 for Software > Update 6.0" (HP 5951-6201) lists those ROMs as part of the "E-Series Fast > FORTRAN Processor ROMs (modules 33, 34, 35)." E-Series DMS ROMs (module > 32) were 13307-80027 through -80032. I thought we established the 13306 numbers were DMS, not 13307-80027 through 80032. > The next update combined the 1K FFP and DMS ROMs into the set 13037-80033 > through -80035 and 5090-0589 through -0591 (4K ROMs). Now I'm really confused. The 2100A/S is so much simpler :) Sorry, my brain is being dense today! I will stare at the history chart in the CE book and see if it gels in my head. Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Jul 28 13:56:32 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: OT language crap Re: Insect Conductivity - language? References: <200407281700.NAA28980@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040728115426.D15878@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <01da01c474d4$993e4420$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > Does that mean that the words W*nd*ws and M*cr*S*ft are now off-limits? Yes *snicker* J --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Jul 28 14:18:00 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's Message-ID: <200407281918.MAA22338@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Pete Turnbull" > >On Jul 28, 12:11, Joe R. wrote: > >> The problem is that AFIK no one has found ANY CD disks that are >> reliable. Several people that have been interviewed in national >> publications explictly pointed out that they bought top quality disks >but >> they were still unreliable. In fact, it didn't appear that there was >much >> difference between the cheap ones and the expensive ones. > >The other day I came across a table from a report showing the relative >longevity of data on various media (DLT, CD-R, etc) at a variety of >temperatures and humidities. I'll try and find it again and post some >of the results. Some of you might be shocked. For example, a CD-R >with an expected lifetime of something like 25 years (if I'm not >misremembering the highest figure) under ideal conditions has a >lifetime of only several *months* at higher temperatures (upper 20s C, >that would be 80s F) and humidity. DLTs fared much much better. > >I have some CDs that were bought about 8 years ago because they were >supposedly good quality, and burned in a highly-rated burner. Out of >the first batch of ten, 4 are now unreadable or give multiple errors. Hi This would put the per unit failure higher than even floppies. I have floppies that are in the 25 year range and still read correctly ( not used regularly for archiving ). The only large issue I've seen on floppies is those higher quality ones with the liners. The adhesive used to attach the liners tended to bleed through the liners and get on the disk. I do keep things stored in areas that rarely see more than 75F or more than 75% humidity. Dwight > >-- >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jul 28 14:22:37 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's In-Reply-To: <10407281922.ZM28583@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040728121126.009b9530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <10407281922.ZM28583@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <4107FCFD.6030205@mdrconsult.com> Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jul 28, 12:11, Joe R. wrote: > > >> The problem is that AFIK no one has found ANY CD disks that are >>reliable. Several people that have been interviewed in national >>publications explictly pointed out that they bought top quality disks > > but > >>they were still unreliable. In fact, it didn't appear that there was > > much > >>difference between the cheap ones and the expensive ones. > > > The other day I came across a table from a report showing the relative > longevity of data on various media (DLT, CD-R, etc) at a variety of > temperatures and humidities. I'll try and find it again and post some > of the results. Some of you might be shocked. For example, a CD-R > with an expected lifetime of something like 25 years (if I'm not > misremembering the highest figure) under ideal conditions has a > lifetime of only several *months* at higher temperatures (upper 20s C, > that would be 80s F) and humidity. DLTs fared much much better. Hmm, I can easily check this. I have several hundred CD-Rs that are obsoleted data backups in my garage. In south central Texas, that means that they've spent 2-5 years in an uncontrolled climate, with 8 months a year being over 90F in the garage and near constantly at 50-90% humidity. If your info is correct, they should pretty much all be useless. Umm, no matter whether those CDs in my garage are still good, I vote for magtape or acid-free paper for any long-term archival. There's no comparison and no debate in our company. We use CDR for easy retrieval in the short term, and tape for the real backups. Doc From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 28 14:23:09 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: OT language crap Re: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: <01da01c474d4$993e4420$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <200407281700.NAA28980@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040728115426.D15878@newshell.lmi.net> <01da01c474d4$993e4420$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20040728122119.Y15878@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Jay West wrote: > > Does that mean that the words W*nd*ws and M*cr*S*ft are now off-limits? > Yes > *snicker* even though M-word W-word 3.1x is now over ten years old, and W-word95 will be ten years old a year from now? From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Jul 28 14:32:43 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's References: <3.0.6.32.20040728121126.009b9530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <10407281922.ZM28583@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <4107FCFD.6030205@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <16647.65371.706000.557188@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Doc" == Doc Shipley writes: Doc> Umm, no matter whether those CDs in my garage are still good, I Doc> vote for magtape or acid-free paper for any long-term archival. Doc> There's no comparison and no debate in our company. We use CDR Doc> for easy retrieval in the short term, and tape for the real Doc> backups. Unless you're *very* careful, magtapes aren't much good beyond a decade or so. paul From rcini at optonline.net Wed Jul 28 14:31:52 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (rcini@optonline.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Stupid NetBSD/SIMH question Message-ID: <9250989233c2.9233c2925098@optonline.net> Hello, all: I'm playing wround with the SIMH VAX emulator and I'm running NetBSD 1.6.2. I'm not too strong on Unix/variants so this might be a stupid question. I want to play around with some of the included games but I can't get them to run. I'm logged in as root (by default, the disk image has only one user) and there's a games directory under /usr/games. Here are two typical entries: -r-xr-sr-x 1 root games 17072 Feb 11 2004 tetris -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 49856 Feb 11 2004 trek Can anyone tell from this why I get a "Command not found" error when I try to run any of these? I'm sure it's something prettu simple but my Unix ignorance shows. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Wed Jul 28 14:39:36 2004 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Stupid NetBSD/SIMH question In-Reply-To: <9250989233c2.9233c2925098@optonline.net> References: <9250989233c2.9233c2925098@optonline.net> Message-ID: My guess is that "." is not in your path. It usually isn't for the root login. Try typing ./tetris or ./trek from the /usr/games directory. On Jul 28, 2004, at 3:31 PM, rcini@optonline.net wrote: > Hello, all: > > I'm playing wround with the SIMH VAX emulator and I'm running NetBSD > 1.6.2. I'm not too strong on Unix/variants so this might be a stupid > question. I want to play around with some of the included games but I > can't get them to run. > > I'm logged in as root (by default, the disk image has only one user) > and there's a games directory under /usr/games. Here are two typical > entries: > > -r-xr-sr-x 1 root games 17072 Feb 11 2004 tetris > -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 49856 Feb 11 2004 trek > > Can anyone tell from this why I get a "Command not found" error when > I try to run any of these? I'm sure it's something prettu simple but > my Unix ignorance shows. > > Thanks. > > Rich > > Rich Cini > > From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Jul 28 14:43:25 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: VCF Security Message-ID: <200407281943.MAA22372@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Fred Cisin" > >When I leave my vendor stall, I remove some of the valuable items, >and move some of the others to the back of the table. > >Last time, when I got back, somebody had replaced a couple of items >from my dollar bin with dollar bills. > >-- >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > Hi The last time I left, by accident, a box with a 2708 ByteSafer and some cassette tape at the event. Sellam was able to track me down and return them :) I don't think that extremely valuable items should be left unattended( like an Apple 1 ). Also small easily hand carried items are not a good idea to leave in plain sight. It is not that I don't generally trust those that come to such events it is just that in any large group of people, there are always those with psychological problems the are related to snatching things. Often these people are otherwise respectable. I doubt we've yet see anyone come to one of these events with the intention of stealing things. The first rule of people is that most are strange. Each has different motivations. Dwight From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jul 28 14:41:06 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: VCF Security In-Reply-To: <00bc01c474d1$7220de00$0500fea9@game> References: <20040728181121.32578.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> <00bc01c474d1$7220de00$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <1091043666.11475.85.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-07-28 at 18:33, Teo Zenios wrote: > I would expect a normal thief to look for items that are easily sold or > pawned and hard to trace. Do you have the serial numbers written down for > your PDA's and portables? Are they insured? Insurance was one thing I checked up on before taking anything to the CGE show. Items being exhibited there were insured by the organisers against theft, so individuals didn't have to worry about it. I'm not sure whether this was under the organiser's policy, or covered by the exhibition hall itself. Damage, whether accidental or otherwise, at the hands of exhibitors or the public, was presumably another matter though. I'm not sure how things stood had the whole site burned to the ground overnight, say! > The people you would have to > watch out for are fellow collectors who might snag an item for their > personal collection that very few people would ever know about. Well someone did lose a couple of flat display screens at CGE overnight, despite the doors supposedly being locked. I can only think that another exhibitor or someone on the exhibition hall's own staff stole them, which is somewhat alarming. The nature of the items taken suggests opportunist theft rather than something planned; there were far more valuable items left on site overnight but presumably whoever took them knew they stood a good chance of not getting caught and of being able to sell the items on... I'll have to ask the event organiser whether there were security cameras in place which will have caught the people - I very much expect that there would be as the show was at a well-established exhibition site... cheers, Jules From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Jul 28 14:43:18 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040728121435.008c0590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040727214159.00b46d70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040728121435.008c0590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: In message <3.0.6.32.20040728121435.008c0590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> "Joe R." wrote: > All the Needham and Stag stuff also works fine. I don't suppose anyone here has the schematics for the Stag PP40 (or at least the RS232 comms card)? I bought a PP40 from an auction sans comms-card and STAGCOM software. At the moment it's only really useful as an EPROM copier, but I'd like to change that (it appears to be capable of programming a few devices that my PrEPROM can't handle). Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere! From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Jul 28 14:33:22 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Stupid NetBSD/SIMH question References: <9250989233c2.9233c2925098@optonline.net> Message-ID: <020601c474d9$be447820$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > My guess is that "." is not in your path. It usually isn't for the root > login. Try typing ./tetris or ./trek from the /usr/games directory. Most likely the above is the problem you're having. However, before you jump to add "." to your environment variable PATH in your login script... remember thats a security issue. You usually want to be very careful that you're running the system copy of vi for example, and not an executable that some miscreant has renamed from "rm" to "vi". Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Wed Jul 28 14:56:55 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's Message-ID: <0407281956.AA03742@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Paul Koning wrote: > Teo> .... I would also like to know what > Teo> affect printable adhesive labels have on media... > > I have a simpler rule for those: "just say NO". So how is one supposed to label recorded CDs then? There needs to be some way to identify which CD-R contains what... MS From wacarder at usit.net Wed Jul 28 15:07:31 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's References: <0407281956.AA03742@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <002e01c474de$84c10320$99100f14@mcothran1> I just write on the top of the CD with a fine tip permanent marker. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Sokolov" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 3:56 PM Subject: Re: Article on data rot on CD's > Paul Koning wrote: > > > Teo> .... I would also like to know what > > Teo> affect printable adhesive labels have on media... > > > > I have a simpler rule for those: "just say NO". > > So how is one supposed to label recorded CDs then? There needs to > be some way to identify which CD-R contains what... > > MS From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jul 28 15:09:25 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: OT language crap Re: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: <200407281700.NAA28980@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, der Mouse wrote: > Epithets, perhaps not, but there are plenty of people who are offended > by the language you did use. (_I_ think any such are too wrapped up in > bluenoseism, but if avoiding offense really is what you're aiming for, > they likely should be taken into account.) That's the thing: I'm not concerned about offending anyone because just using the word "fuck" (or any of its forms) should not be offensive in and of itself. Anyway, this can end now please. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Jul 28 14:55:55 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Jeff Russ Message-ID: <021d01c474dc$e53b1c60$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Is Jeff Russ on the list? Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jul 28 15:16:19 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's References: <0407281956.AA03742@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <012201c474df$bf045e00$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Sokolov" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 3:56 PM Subject: Re: Article on data rot on CD's > Paul Koning wrote: > > > Teo> .... I would also like to know what > > Teo> affect printable adhesive labels have on media... > > > > I have a simpler rule for those: "just say NO". > > So how is one supposed to label recorded CDs then? There needs to > be some way to identify which CD-R contains what... > > MS > I have 100's if not 1000 cds containing data and music that work fine with labels attached. I haven't had a problem with vibrations even on 52x cdrom drives. Some of the discs go back to the mid 90's. I used to use the stick-it-right labels, but they are rare these days so I use a bunch that were made by IBM. Using an applicator that centers the label is important, I wouldn't eyeball it by hand. The only cdr that failed that I remember was a highly used (and scratched) backup copy of windows 95. From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jul 28 15:14:05 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's In-Reply-To: <16647.65371.706000.557188@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <3.0.6.32.20040728121126.009b9530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <10407281922.ZM28583@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <4107FCFD.6030205@mdrconsult.com> <16647.65371.706000.557188@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <4108090D.6070900@mdrconsult.com> Paul Koning wrote: >>>>>>"Doc" == Doc Shipley writes: > > > Doc> Umm, no matter whether those CDs in my garage are still good, I > Doc> vote for magtape or acid-free paper for any long-term archival. > Doc> There's no comparison and no debate in our company. We use CDR > Doc> for easy retrieval in the short term, and tape for the real > Doc> backups. > > Unless you're *very* careful, magtapes aren't much good beyond a > decade or so. Yep. I worked for a research lab at University of Texas for a couple of years. All "relevant data" on state-funded projects must be archived for 40 years. At the time, the Library of Congress was the accredited authority on proper media and storage. (I expect that it still is.) My department had always followed those guidelines faithfully. Still, soon after I took over the subnet, the very first time they were asked by the state to provide archived files we were unable to produce. All the *tapes* had been stored properly, but all the machines with compatible *drives* had been surplussed long since, and the backup software junked. It was my first experience in data recovery and migration, and one that I've since learned is very common. Perversely, I seem to have developed a taste for it. :) Doc From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Jul 28 15:17:17 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's References: <0407281956.AA03742@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <002e01c474de$84c10320$99100f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <16648.2509.184753.7153@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ashley" == Ashley Carder writes: Ashley> I just write on the top of the CD with a fine tip permanent Ashley> marker. That's what the media manufacturers recommend. It's the only safe way in my view. paul From jim at smithy.com Wed Jul 28 15:23:15 2004 From: jim at smithy.com (jjd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's In-Reply-To: <4108090D.6070900@mdrconsult.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040728121126.009b9530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <10407281922.ZM28583@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <4107FCFD.6030205@mdrconsult.com> <16647.65371.706000.557188@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4108090D.6070900@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <1091046194.3485.8.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2004-07-28 at 16:14, Doc Shipley wrote: > Paul Koning wrote: > and the backup software junked. I laugh at those who criticized me for backing up my system with tar :) Jim From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jul 28 15:24:46 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's In-Reply-To: <16648.2509.184753.7153@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <0407281956.AA03742@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <002e01c474de$84c10320$99100f14@mcothran1> <16648.2509.184753.7153@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <41080B8E.6090206@mdrconsult.com> Paul Koning wrote: >>>>>>"Ashley" == Ashley Carder writes: > > > Ashley> I just write on the top of the CD with a fine tip permanent > Ashley> marker. > > That's what the media manufacturers recommend. It's the only safe way > in my view. If you want to be really picky about it, TDK makes (or more likely badges) a felt-tip media marker. It's about $3USD, and the one I have has lasted several hundred CDRs. I can't remember whether I bought it at CompUSA or Best Buy. It smells just like a Sharpie. ;) Doc From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jul 28 15:31:09 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: VCF Security In-Reply-To: <00bc01c474d1$7220de00$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > I would expect a normal thief to look for items that are easily sold or > pawned and hard to trace. Do you have the serial numbers written down for > your PDA's and portables? Are they insured? The people you would have to > watch out for are fellow collectors who might snag an item for their > personal collection that very few people would ever know about. At the VCF > how many people in the audience are there just to see old gear (like going > to a museum) and how many are actual collectors of your specific gear? If any exhibitor ever stole from another, I would personally drag them out to the parking lot and beat them silly. However, this is moot. I know all my exhibitors (to some extent), and I know a lot of people in this hobby. I can't think of a single person that I couldn't trust. This is one of the most honest groups of people around. Some may be annoying and/or obnoxious, but they are trustworthy. I do the VCF because I don't have to deal with hassles like theft or fights between exhibitors or whatever. If this ever becomes a problem, the fun will be gone and so will the VCF. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Wed Jul 28 15:10:21 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Stupid NetBSD/SIMH question In-Reply-To: <020601c474d9$be447820$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <9250989233c2.9233c2925098@optonline.net> <020601c474d9$be447820$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <279DC4AE-E0D2-11D8-A5AB-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Jul 28, 2004, at 12:33 PM, Jay West wrote: > >> My guess is that "." is not in your path. It usually isn't for the >> root >> login. Try typing ./tetris or ./trek from the /usr/games directory. > > Most likely the above is the problem you're having. However, before > you jump > to add "." to your environment variable PATH in your login script... > remember thats a security issue. You usually want to be very careful > that > you're running the system copy of vi for example, and not an > executable that > some miscreant has renamed from "rm" to "vi". > > Jay > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Better yet... put /etc/games in your path. If you are compiling your own files run them with ./foo or create your own bin directory (give everyone one and you can put ~/bin in the master profile) All the unixics I have known, none of them have "." in the path. > From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jul 28 15:32:55 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's In-Reply-To: <1091046194.3485.8.camel@localhost> References: <3.0.6.32.20040728121126.009b9530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <10407281922.ZM28583@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <4107FCFD.6030205@mdrconsult.com> <16647.65371.706000.557188@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4108090D.6070900@mdrconsult.com> <1091046194.3485.8.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <41080D77.90704@mdrconsult.com> jjd wrote: > On Wed, 2004-07-28 at 16:14, Doc Shipley wrote: > >>Paul Koning wrote: >> and the backup software junked. > > > I laugh at those who criticized me for backing up my system with tar :) Yeah, and you can probably guess which software they junked, if I tell you the backups were done on PeeCees running Windows, with QIC80 and 120 floppy-interface drives. Fortunately, our lab was right beside the surplus barn and the first computer I found with the right drive also had Jumbo still installed. All I had to do was add an ethernet card and map a server drive. Yes, it was still an all-Windows shop and probably still is, and yes, they were still using a different off-the-shelf proprietary backup tool. Some directors are just incapable of learning. Doc From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jul 28 15:38:20 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's References: <3.0.6.32.20040728121126.009b9530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <10407281922.ZM28583@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <4107FCFD.6030205@mdrconsult.com> <16647.65371.706000.557188@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4108090D.6070900@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <014701c474e2$d1c472c0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc Shipley" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 4:14 PM Subject: Re: Article on data rot on CD's > Paul Koning wrote: > > >>>>>>"Doc" == Doc Shipley writes: > > > > > > Doc> Umm, no matter whether those CDs in my garage are still good, I > > Doc> vote for magtape or acid-free paper for any long-term archival. > > Doc> There's no comparison and no debate in our company. We use CDR > > Doc> for easy retrieval in the short term, and tape for the real > > Doc> backups. > > > > Unless you're *very* careful, magtapes aren't much good beyond a > > decade or so. > > Yep. I worked for a research lab at University of Texas for a couple > of years. All "relevant data" on state-funded projects must be archived > for 40 years. At the time, the Library of Congress was the accredited > authority on proper media and storage. (I expect that it still is.) > > My department had always followed those guidelines faithfully. > Still, soon after I took over the subnet, the very first time they were > asked by the state to provide archived files we were unable to produce. > All the *tapes* had been stored properly, but all the machines with > compatible *drives* had been surplussed long since, and the backup > software junked. It was my first experience in data recovery and > migration, and one that I've since learned is very common. Perversely, > I seem to have developed a taste for it. :) > > > Doc > You would think the drives making the backups and the original software would have been removed and placed in the vault with the media. Did some of the older tape drives have problems reading tapes from different machines because of head alignment? Back when I was young and broke I used a utility to format 360K 5.25" DD disks to 800K to save money (720K 3.5" disks were expensive back then), I was smart enough to save the program (and the TSR that made the computer able to read the disks) on a standard 720K disk so that even now I can read the 800K formatted floppies as needed. I keep all my old tape backup drives on the shelf, and that came in handy last year when an old buddy sent me 100 Colorado QIC 120mb tapes with old games stored on them since early 90's (he had junked his drive a long time ago). I was able to read every one of them no problems on my dusty old drive. Finding media for old drives is easier then finding the drives themselves. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jul 28 15:49:06 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's References: <3.0.6.32.20040728121126.009b9530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <10407281922.ZM28583@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <4107FCFD.6030205@mdrconsult.com> <16647.65371.706000.557188@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4108090D.6070900@mdrconsult.com> <1091046194.3485.8.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <41081142.2030803@jetnet.ab.ca> jjd wrote: > On Wed, 2004-07-28 at 16:14, Doc Shipley wrote: > I laugh at those who criticized me for backing up my system with tar :) > > Jim > But the real question, is *tar* on a boot floppy? From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed Jul 28 16:16:29 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity In-Reply-To: <4107DA71.7080300@srv.net> Message-ID: >>> Data Sheets! We need the data sheets! Anyone have the >>> correct data sheets? 1) Determining the curant carring capacity is largely dependant on the species of both the curant and the ant. 2) I have an old antmeter in my collection, but it has not been calibrated. If anyone is aware of a possible grant that would provide the necessary funding, I would appreciate the information. With regards to F'ng ants. I do not care to be enganged in studies which relate to the sexual activity of ofther species. From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jul 28 16:16:37 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's In-Reply-To: <014701c474e2$d1c472c0$0500fea9@game> References: <3.0.6.32.20040728121126.009b9530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <10407281922.ZM28583@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <4107FCFD.6030205@mdrconsult.com> <16647.65371.706000.557188@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4108090D.6070900@mdrconsult.com> <014701c474e2$d1c472c0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <410817B5.2050204@mdrconsult.com> Teo Zenios wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Doc Shipley" >> My department had always followed those guidelines faithfully. >>Still, soon after I took over the subnet, the very first time they were >>asked by the state to provide archived files we were unable to produce. >> All the *tapes* had been stored properly, but all the machines with >>compatible *drives* had been surplussed long since, and the backup >>software junked. It was my first experience in data recovery and >>migration, and one that I've since learned is very common. Perversely, >>I seem to have developed a taste for it. :) > You would think the drives making the backups and the original software > would have been removed and placed in the vault with the media. Did some of > the older tape drives have problems reading tapes from different machines > because of head alignment? No problems with any of the 200-300 tapes I migrated, over two years' time. And yes, you would think, unless you stop to think that the IT for that department had been under the management of an archeology student who "knew a lot about computers". They just never equated the tapes in storage with the hardware going out the door. That scenario is a *lot* more common than it ought to be. Another one is that of an architect for whom I built a file server and backup server a few years ago. He had an Iomega 800MB parallel port tape drive (Travan 1, were they?) and insisted on using it, and the Iomega software, for the whole office backups. I begged him through 3 years and a couple of major upgrades to spend a few hundred dollars on a good refurbed SCSI tape drive. DDS2 or an Exabyte 8505 would have done him just fine. He couldn't afford "all that money to buy something I already have". He also never had the money to pay me to test the DR plan or backups. He had to get back a trashed or deleted drawing now and then, and considered that verification of his backups. About 2 years ago he called and he had crashed a disk, and he was having trouble getting his files back off of tape. It turned out that he'd been cleaning the tape drive as instructed, and rotating tapes on schedule. Rotating the same 10 travan tapes for 4.5 years. There were places on those tapes you could see through. We didn't get any data back that was less than 6 months old. It nearly put him out of business. Doc From brad at heeltoe.com Wed Jul 28 16:43:47 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Stupid NetBSD/SIMH question In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 28 Jul 2004 15:31:52 EDT." <9250989233c2.9233c2925098@optonline.net> Message-ID: <200407282143.i6SLhlnF031368@mwave.heeltoe.com> rcini@optonline.net wrote: > > I'm logged in as root (by default, the disk image has only one user) and the >re's a games directory under /usr/games. Here are two typical entries: > >-r-xr-sr-x 1 root games 17072 Feb 11 2004 tetris >-r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 49856 Feb 11 2004 trek > > Can anyone tell from this why I get a "Command not found" error when I try t >o run any of these? I'm sure it's something prettu simple but my Unix ignoranc >e shows. You probably don't have "." in your path. try "./tetris" -brad From brad at heeltoe.com Wed Jul 28 16:45:51 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 28 Jul 2004 16:23:15 EDT." <1091046194.3485.8.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200407282145.i6SLjpLl031416@mwave.heeltoe.com> jjd wrote: >On Wed, 2004-07-28 at 16:14, Doc Shipley wrote: >> Paul Koning wrote: >> and the backup software junked. > >I laugh at those who criticized me for backing up my system with tar :) it's funny, tar seems to be the one thing that still works, despite many other pieces of backup software (and even compression programs)... humm... those tape drives are looking better and better... (and my 9-track's working fine! :-) -brad From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jul 28 16:50:11 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's References: <3.0.6.32.20040728121126.009b9530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <10407281922.ZM28583@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <4107FCFD.6030205@mdrconsult.com> <16647.65371.706000.557188@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4108090D.6070900@mdrconsult.com> <014701c474e2$d1c472c0$0500fea9@game> <410817B5.2050204@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <019b01c474ec$dc17d5f0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc Shipley" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 5:16 PM Subject: Re: Article on data rot on CD's > Teo Zenios wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Doc Shipley" > > >> My department had always followed those guidelines faithfully. > >>Still, soon after I took over the subnet, the very first time they were > >>asked by the state to provide archived files we were unable to produce. > >> All the *tapes* had been stored properly, but all the machines with > >>compatible *drives* had been surplussed long since, and the backup > >>software junked. It was my first experience in data recovery and > >>migration, and one that I've since learned is very common. Perversely, > >>I seem to have developed a taste for it. :) > > > You would think the drives making the backups and the original software > > would have been removed and placed in the vault with the media. Did some of > > the older tape drives have problems reading tapes from different machines > > because of head alignment? > > No problems with any of the 200-300 tapes I migrated, over two years' > time. And yes, you would think, unless you stop to think that the IT > for that department had been under the management of an archeology > student who "knew a lot about computers". They just never equated the > tapes in storage with the hardware going out the door. > > That scenario is a *lot* more common than it ought to be. > > Another one is that of an architect for whom I built a file server > and backup server a few years ago. He had an Iomega 800MB parallel port > tape drive (Travan 1, were they?) and insisted on using it, and the > Iomega software, for the whole office backups. > > I begged him through 3 years and a couple of major upgrades to spend > a few hundred dollars on a good refurbed SCSI tape drive. DDS2 or an > Exabyte 8505 would have done him just fine. He couldn't afford "all > that money to buy something I already have". He also never had the > money to pay me to test the DR plan or backups. He had to get back a > trashed or deleted drawing now and then, and considered that > verification of his backups. > > About 2 years ago he called and he had crashed a disk, and he was > having trouble getting his files back off of tape. It turned out that > he'd been cleaning the tape drive as instructed, and rotating tapes on > schedule. Rotating the same 10 travan tapes for 4.5 years. > > There were places on those tapes you could see through. We didn't > get any data back that was less than 6 months old. It nearly put him > out of business. > > > Doc > Shouldn't he have a permanent backup tape every so often in the cycle? If you screw up or delete a file and don't notice it quickly it will get lost in the rotating cycle. The major problem I see companies forgetting is offsite storage of backups in case of fire or something like that. Most companies would not survive a fire because their financial backups would be gone. From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jul 28 17:17:39 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's In-Reply-To: <019b01c474ec$dc17d5f0$0500fea9@game> References: <3.0.6.32.20040728121126.009b9530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <10407281922.ZM28583@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <4107FCFD.6030205@mdrconsult.com> <16647.65371.706000.557188@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4108090D.6070900@mdrconsult.com> <014701c474e2$d1c472c0$0500fea9@game> <410817B5.2050204@mdrconsult.com> <019b01c474ec$dc17d5f0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <41082603.90104@mdrconsult.com> Teo Zenios wrote: > Shouldn't he have a permanent backup tape every so often in the cycle? If > you screw up or delete a file and don't notice it quickly it will get lost > in the rotating cycle. The major problem I see companies forgetting is > offsite storage of backups in case of fire or something like that. Most > companies would not survive a fire because their financial backups would be > gone. Just try to convince the owner of a struggling small business that the money poured down that drain is well-spent. Yes, he should be doing a permanent archive at least monthly, and yes, you should rotate tapes *out* after X reads or writes. Value of X depends on the media type, and as far as I'm concerned, Iomega's early Travan tapes were good for one write, and *possibly* one read. He was doing a permanent archive every 6 months "or so". He couldn't be bothered to buy a new set of 6-8 tapes every month for the full backup, and I'm sure he was having trouble finding them. My company is a Tivoli reseller and service partner, and TSM is my boss's specialty. I've heard every reason in the book for scrimping on data protection, and they all boil down to the same thing. Non-techie management honestly believes that if all their IT people are doing their jobs, and all their expensive storage toys are doing _their_ jobs, and all that shiney expensive software is doing _its_ job, tape backups are expensive, obsolete, and useless. To make things much worse, there are any number of little garage-based companies building cheap NAS/SAN solutions, and even more storage sales folk from reputable companies, who will tell a VP exactly that - that magnetic media is dead. Simply because they get commission selling disk space, not tape. I'm all in favor of disk-based backups, mirrors, snapshots, backups to CD-R/DVD-R, etc. They're cheap, simple, and very useful. They just don't, can't, and never will do the whole job. I'll shut up now. Doc From MGemeny at pgcps.org Wed Jul 28 17:39:29 2004 From: MGemeny at pgcps.org (Mike Gemeny) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Now easier for people to get HP2000/Access up (was: Message-ID: Michel Adam wrote: >It could very well be that '2000G' was just an HP internal project designation >for the next version, before someone decided to change the name (marketing ?) Yep, I agree, that?s how I remember it happening, and in fact we have evidence of this in our possession. The Access Internals documentation 22687-90020 on page 4-39 has a snip of source code for the power fail routines and the very first comment references TSB/G. As for a company (as I recall from Canada) supporting a version called TSB-G, I think this was also the case. I want to say that their version also supported accounts that started with an at sign (ie @000-@999). After the 2000 line was ended the source was made available to existing customers and VARs for the price of $500, as I recall. Not many took advantage of the opportunity, but HP would allow a VAR to put systems together and sell them with the TSB software. I may even have a notice here in an HP users group publication about this. Access and I assume System were the only versions that required IOP micro-code. And the descriptions of the micro-coded instructions are in the above-mentioned document along with the rational for this enhancement. Now a big ?HIP HIP HORAYYYYY? so glad that last version of the micro-code has been found! That is fantastic news! And by the way, the next version of SIMH should run Access without tweaking, at least under windows. ZIPs are still available for people wanting to play with a pre-release package. (Yes Jay, still waiting for you to put up an Access system on classicmp, it runs under SIMH.) FWIW Mike Gemeny From dholland at woh.rr.com Wed Jul 28 18:44:32 2004 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:34 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's In-Reply-To: <012201c474df$bf045e00$0500fea9@game> References: <0407281956.AA03742@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <012201c474df$bf045e00$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <1091058271.19654.24.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> Just to add my "me too's"... Buddy of mine has had bad experiences w/ labels. Some brand of CDR (probably cheap ones) was fine w/ out a label, but as soon as he put his (also probably cheap) label on it the CDR turned into a frisbee. (Shrug - I now avoid labels.) I've also noted that a lot of the cheaper DVD-R media is obviously semi-transparent, and I'd be concerned about the effects of labeling one... But FWIW, I've seen true CDR "bit-rot" only once. Can't remember the brand or other details, but the one day I went to use this one CDR, all attempts to read any of the files on it caused CRC errors to start spewing on in the message log. It'd been sitting on the shelf in a case for quite some time ( < 7 years, see below ) and there wasn't any noteable physical damage to the media either. I'd agree its all about the brands though, as it looks like the very first CDR I made back in 1997 is still quite readable (even though it _IS_ fairly scratched.) David On Wed, 2004-07-28 at 16:16, Teo Zenios wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Sokolov" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 3:56 PM > Subject: Re: Article on data rot on CD's > > > > Paul Koning wrote: > > > > > Teo> .... I would also like to know what > > > Teo> affect printable adhesive labels have on media... > > > > > > I have a simpler rule for those: "just say NO". > > > > So how is one supposed to label recorded CDs then? There needs to > > be some way to identify which CD-R contains what... > > > > MS > > > > I have 100's if not 1000 cds containing data and music that work fine with > labels attached. I haven't had a problem with vibrations even on 52x cdrom > drives. Some of the discs go back to the mid 90's. > > I used to use the stick-it-right labels, but they are rare these days so I > use a bunch that were made by IBM. Using an applicator that centers the > label is important, I wouldn't eyeball it by hand. > > The only cdr that failed that I remember was a highly used (and scratched) > backup copy of windows 95. > > > > From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Wed Jul 28 19:00:12 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's In-Reply-To: <019b01c474ec$dc17d5f0$0500fea9@game> References: <3.0.6.32.20040728121126.009b9530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <10407281922.ZM28583@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <4107FCFD.6030205@mdrconsult.com> <16647.65371.706000.557188@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4108090D.6070900@mdrconsult.com> <014701c474e2$d1c472c0$0500fea9@game> <410817B5.2050204@mdrconsult.com> <019b01c474ec$dc17d5f0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.0.20040729005135.0422bb08@pop.freeserve.net> At 22:50 28/07/2004, Teo wrote: >Shouldn't he have a permanent backup tape every so often in the cycle? If >you screw up or delete a file and don't notice it quickly it will get lost >in the rotating cycle. The major problem I see companies forgetting is >offsite storage of backups in case of fire or something like that. Most >companies would not survive a fire because their financial backups would be >gone. Back in my previous employment, we had a customer who were very strict on doing backups (on DDS2) every night. Once done, the tapes were locked in the safe, for security. Smallish thing, more of a fire-safe than anything else. Everything was fine... until the day they were broken into, and their computers and server were stolen. And so was the safe! We and they had some 6 hours of major panic as we hunted for any copies of anything we could find (and we did find a several week old ad-hoc copy of their data) until they got a call from the police saying they had found the safe by a nearby railway line, complete with tapes still inside. Subsequently, the tapes got taken home instead.. After this incident, all the computers were locked down in security cabinets. The keys were all labeled up. And put in the replacement safe. You can probably work out the story the next time they were broken into.. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 28 18:17:09 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Good news on my RK05 drives In-Reply-To: from "Ashley Carder" at Jul 28, 4 01:07:37 am Message-ID: > I wrote a little test program to attempt to read random blocks and I > watched the read/write head. It did move in and out like it should. > If it was attempting to read a low numbered block, it moved just a > little bit. If it was attempting to read a high numbered block, it > moved farther toward the center of the platter. However, every That sounds right. There should be a vernier scale on the positioner so you can check it's going to the correct cylinder, but at this point I'd assume it was not the problem. > attempt to read or write resulted in an error. The head would > position to the appropriate(?) position on the disk, sit there a > short while, and then move back to cylinder 0. This is presumably due to your program, or the RSTS driver. The hardware should not do this. Can you execute seek commands from the front panel? If so, I assume the head goes to a cylinder and stays there. Can you execute a READ command from the panel? (You may have to do this from a toggled-in program on the 11/34, as I think the processor doesn't correclty handle NPR's when halted). If so, then look at the error register to see what it thinks is wrong. > > I suppose I could swap boards with the good drive to verify the > boards. Or you could learn to fix it properly :-) OK, it sounds like the spindle motor is fine, the positioner is fine. The problem is probably on the Read/Write board (a less likely possibility is on the tiny bit of logic between this board and the drive cable). COuld also be the heads. Start by inspecting the heads, If they look OK, I'd start by loading a pack with something on it and then looking at the output of the read circuit with a 'scope. Are you getting anything sane there? > > Any other ideas? I guess that some day soon I'm going to have > to learn more low-level technical stuff and how to troubleshoot > electronic components (I keep saying that!). Indeed you should. It's not that difficult, and you have picked a good machine to learn on. It's complicated enough to be worthwhile, but the chips are all fairly simple, they're all documented (no big custom gate arrays), and schematics/technical manuals exist. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 28 18:19:36 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Intel D82284 datasheet.. In-Reply-To: <1091011498.11475.19.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Jul 28, 4 10:44:58 am Message-ID: > > > > I have the 82C284 data sheet, which is the CMOS version. I assume it's > > very similar.. It's described as 'Clock Generator and Ready Interface for > > 80286 Porcessors', and I remmeebr it being used in the IBM PC/AT. > > Yep, I actually stumbled across the same IC by accident and did find the > datasheet for that one; I'm also assuming that they're compatible. The They are very close. I can remember debugging an AT clone using that data sheet, and it was good enough to ensure the machine was clocking correctly. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 28 18:23:15 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <20040728110707.QWTY3702.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> from "Dave Dunfield" at Jul 28, 4 07:07:08 am Message-ID: > > > Does anyone have some schematics and software (would be great) for a > > little homebrewed Eprom Programmer which works with a standard PC > > parallel-port or ISA slot? > > I have a hardware/software design for a simple EPROM programmer on my > site ... unfortunately, it was designed years ago when I was still fairly > new at hardware design and it shows ... Works well however and I still > use one of them from time to time (quicker and easier than my 29B). > > It's completely stand-alone with a 8-digit LED display and a keypad. It > can upload/download Intel or Motorola HEX format data via a serial port, > and also has a "remote" mode for total computer control. > > It only does 2716, 2732, 2764, 27128 and 27256 family devices (all I > needed at the time), although you could design adapters and modify the > code to support other devices if you wanted (I did one for 8051's at > one point). > > Parts might be a bit hard to find now - uses a 6809 CPU, 6821 PIA, a 6551 > UART, a few 6264 SRAM's, a handful of latches and 3-4 relays to move the And thereing lies the problem. Presumably you need to program an EPROM with the firmware for this 6809. Which is somewhat hard without a programmer :-)... I built my first EPROM programmer about 18 years ago. Programs 2716-27128, using the 'slow' algorithm. It doesn't even handle 12.5V parts (I should add that feature!). 3 hand-wired boards of mostly TTL, with a 40 pin AY-3-1015 UART in the middle. Oh yes, it's an EPROM emulator as well, for the same types of EPROMs. My idea was to use this device to develop and burn the firmware for a microprocessor-controlled programmer, but I never got round to it (and I picked up a number of interesting commerical programmers too). One day, perhaps... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 28 18:36:08 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040728121435.008c0590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at Jul 28, 4 12:14:35 pm Message-ID: > >I don't beleive those are still in production (and if they are, they're > >not cheap new). And if I buy second-hand equipment, I expect to have to > >repair it, and I would guess that service information is not (easily) > >available. > > You're right, they're not still in production but they handle every > EPROM, PAL and PROM that I'm interested in so what's wrong with them? The There is nothing wrong with equipment that's no longer in production (in fact I think just about every instrument I use is discontinued), but you can't _depeend_ on a supply of them. I've not seen these units in the UK, for example. > >> >> your time than to reinvent the EPROM programmer for the 10,000th time? > >> > > >> > >> >Care to suggest some??? > >> > >> Is this a trick question? I guess you don't get out much. Here's the > >> short list: Cold beer, hot cars, hot women, sports, tv, movies, old > >> computers, friends, traveling, pets, reading, family, tending my garden, > >> taking care of my house, etc etc etc. > > > >I truely pity anyoe who regards drinking alcohol, women, sports, TV (at > >least the TV we get over here), (watching) movies as being more > >interesting than constructing anything. > > Well I know I'm a lot more selective about my TV and movies than the > majority of people but are you trying to tell me that there's NOTHING worth > watching on TV or movies? What do you have against women, beer and sports? I watch _very_ little TV, and wouldn't bother at all if I had to pay for the license (as opposed to watching my parents' set). UK TV is pretty darn awful.... Nothing agaist women, except that hacking is generally a lot more fun :-). Don't like beer, in fact don't like alcohol much at all (apart from cleaning disk heads :-)). You've met me. you know I'm not the athletic type. And I have absolutely _no_ intersest in spectator sports (or watching overpaid idiots doing anything for that matter). In fact the only thing I'd like less than watching sport is participating in it! > You also overlooked the rest of the list or do you have something against > all of them too? No, the rest of your list seemed to be possibly as intesting as making something. But not _more_ interesting. > >I haev never treated anything as just an appliance... > > If you spend as much time, money and energy on a Microwave oven (or an > EPROM programmer) as you would, say, a PDP-8 then something is seriously > wrong IMO. OK, something is seriosuly wrong. Period. I choose my tools (and this includes test gear and EPROM programmers) very carefully. It's a lot easier to do good work with good tools. Now, I don;t have a microwave oven, but yes, I'd spend more time choosing it than choosing a PDP8, if only because you can't choose the latter. You generally get what's being thrown out (or at least I did with my 8/a and 8/e). Whereas with the microwave oven, there are several models to choose from, and I'd want to pick one that was solidly built, didn't leak, and had spares available. I am going to have to maintain it, after all. In terms of using it, I'd spend a lot longer using the PDP8, of course. But that's obvious. In terms of maintaining it, it's close. The PDP8 needs maintence for its 'health'. The Microwave oven needs maintenance for my health. I assume you think the chap who wrote 'The Voice of the Crystal' and 'Instruments of Amplification' was wasting his time. His home-made valves and transistors are, to be blunt, lousy. But he had a go, and that, I think, was well worth doing. I intend trying some of his experiments sometime too. Maybe I'll learn something... I know I learnt a few things when I built my first EPROM programmer -- and not just about EPROMs. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 28 18:11:09 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <20040727215229.I3572@newshell.lmi.net> from "Fred Cisin" at Jul 27, 4 09:57:19 pm Message-ID: > > On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > > So are Tinker Toys but I passed that stage long ago. > > Never haard of it, but I sure haven't grown out of Meccano or Fischer > > Technik.... > > Rods and hubs. Oh right... Come to mention it, didn't A.K. Dewdney write about a mechanical computer built using it. > Good for molecule models, etc., but not as versatile as an "Erector Set". ^^^^^^^^^^^ I believe that's similar to the English Meccano system. Metal strips, plates, rods, etc that you bolt together. > > I truely pity anyoe who regards drinking alcohol, women, sports, TV (at > > least the TV we get over here), (watching) movies as being more > > interesting than constructing anything. > > The right women can be. Yes, but how meany single women are there who would put up with me, and who are actually interested in reading microcode source listings :-) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 28 18:43:18 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: RX50 Dis/assembly.. In-Reply-To: <4107E60A.8040508@hp.com> from "Wai-Sun Chia" at Jul 29, 4 01:44:42 am Message-ID: > > I'm really embarrassed, but guess what? I took apart my RX50 > (cleaning/servicing..) but didn't bother to document where all the > jumpers/headers go.. I have found my hand-drawn RX50 schematic that I drew out... The conenctors on the Seek/Interface board seem to be : J1 : 34 pin header -- Interface J2 : 5 pin header -- Upper Clamp Arm J3 : 4 pin -- Power input J4 : 8 pin header -- To motor PCB J5 : 3 pin header -- Track 0 sensor J6 : 3 pin header -- LED B, not used J7 : 6 pin header -- Head Stepper Motor J8 : 5 pin header -- Lower Clamp Arm J9 : 12 pin header -- To R/W PCB J10 : 3 pin header -- LED A, not used I assume these were labelled in my drive... Anmyway, on the track 0 connector (J5), pin 1 goes to groudn, pin 2 goes to +5V via a 180 Ohm resistor, pin 3 goes to +5V via a 100k resistor and also to pin 1 of E5 (a '14 chip). That should be enough to identify it. -tony From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Jul 28 19:41:06 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer Message-ID: <200407290041.RAA22530@clulw009.amd.com> >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk ---snip--- > >I built my first EPROM programmer about 18 years ago. Programs >2716-27128, using the 'slow' algorithm. It doesn't even handle 12.5V >parts (I should add that feature!). 3 hand-wired boards of mostly TTL, >with a 40 pin AY-3-1015 UART in the middle. Oh yes, it's an EPROM >emulator as well, for the same types of EPROMs. > Hi My first programmer was also built to do 2716's. I put it on a prototype board in my H89. It only needed a few parts. The H89 was my second computer, my first was a Poly88. I made an adapter socket with two switches to expand the programmer to do 2732's and 2764's. I even added a jumper select for VPP levels. My favorite programmer is the 4004 developement system I have. It only does 1702A's but with a little modification of firmware can handle 1702's as well. How many out there actually have 1702's ( not the same as 1702A's )? For general purposes, the Needham works fine. I have a schematic for this that someone else drew up but I have no way to read. It is in some schmatic program format. I'd love to get it into a pdf to print out. I'm told that the main issue with the PB-10 is that they have filled the entire table for PROM types. Of course, with the schematic, one should be able to write their own code for other devices if the voltages needed are supported. One could also strip out many of the smart algorithms and just use the generic one. This would free up a lot of the space in the tables. Dwight From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jul 28 19:47:06 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Jul 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > Nothing agaist women, except that hacking is generally a lot more fun > :-). Um... ... Never mind. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From tomj at wps.com Wed Jul 28 19:55:08 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1091062508.3770.56.camel@dhcp-249041> On Tue, 2004-07-27 at 15:21, Tony Duell wrote: > [Building an EPROM PRogrammer] > Several good reasons I agree w/Tony. Some things are not worth the effort of build vs. buy, but an EPROM burner is probably worth it, especially for older stuff. > > your time than to reinvent the EPROM programmer for the 10,000th time? > > Care to suggest some??? One, it gets easier every time!!! :-) Seriously, in this case it does. There's a lot of inexpensive interface choices today, plus cobbling up the algorithms in Perl or assembly or whatever is soooo much easier today. Hell we have email today for when we get stuck. Besides, Making Things makes you a better person (no joke there). Writing software only feels like cheating to me. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 28 19:28:11 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: <004e01c474c0$eedde980$0500fea9@game> References: <200407281608.JAA22155@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040728202811.009e6e90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:35 PM 7/28/04 -0400, you wrote: > >All kidding aside I assume that ants themselves are not conductive enough to >short 120VAC, instead its the moisture (or bug spray) on their surface that >bridges the gap for electricity. You're wrong. They will short out 120VAC without any additional liquids. Ants shorting out outdoor outlets are a COMMON problem here in Florida. Joe > > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 28 20:09:04 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040728180243.I26707@newshell.lmi.net> On Thu, 29 Jul 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > Good for molecule models, etc., but not as versatile as an "Erector Set". > I believe that's similar to the English Meccano system. Metal strips, plates, > rods, etc that you bolt together. Yes, but,... The Erector Set by Gilbert had LOTS of little screws, washers and nuts, and a nice solid plug-in electric motor with a multi-ratio open gearbox. So, they changed it to a wimpy battery powered motor, and changed it over to snap together crap. It was so badly screwed up that I think that it has gone the way of chemistry sets, and there will never again be any great mechanics from the USA. > > > I truely pity anyoe who regards drinking alcohol, women, sports, TV (at > > > least the TV we get over here), (watching) movies as being more > > > interesting than constructing anything. > > The right women can be. > Yes, but how meany single women are there who would put up with me, and > who are actually interested in reading microcode source listings :-) There aren't many. From cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org Wed Jul 28 21:04:21 2004 From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org (cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: The results of your email commands Message-ID: The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your original message. - Results: Ignoring non-text/plain MIME parts - Done. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jul 28 21:12:12 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? Message-ID: Does anyone know what was the first computer to have a built-in real-time clock? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Jul 28 21:20:21 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <1091062508.3770.56.camel@dhcp-249041> References: <1091062508.3770.56.camel@dhcp-249041> Message-ID: <20040729022021.GB26710@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Jul 28, 2004 at 05:55:08PM -0700, Tom Jennings wrote: > On Tue, 2004-07-27 at 15:21, Tony Duell wrote: > > [Building an EPROM PRogrammer] > > > Several good reasons > > I agree w/Tony. Some things are not worth the effort of build vs. buy, > but an EPROM burner is probably worth it, especially for older stuff. Well, I find it interesting, if for no other reason than I have a pair of 27C512s I'd like to reprogram (new version of BTS6120) and I did not happen to bring my programmer with me. No, there does not appear to be an EPROM programmer for at least 850 miles, if not 3000 miles. I don't know that I'd construct my own here, but I probably could. We have adjustable bench supplies I could use for the programming voltage (meaning I don't have to roll my own); all I need is a way to cycle the address pins and to read/write the bits (since I would really like to verify the parts before and after). I do have several device programmers at home, a full-sized Data I/O unit with about 8 ZIF sockets, a Bay Technical Associates serial-interfaced unit, a B&C Microsystems UP600A, a Promenade (for the C-64), and a couple of SBCs with built-in EPROM programmers (Z-80 Starter Kit...) None of them were small enough to be worth the chance I'd need one down here, so now I'm stuck. One thing holding me back - no way to erase the parts I have with me... I can't even use the trick of concentrating sunlight. :-) I have a couple of "ultraviolet" LEDs with me, but I doubt they are the right frequency to erase EPROMs. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 29-Jul-2004 02:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -71.5 F (-57.6 C) Windchill -103.5 F (-75.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8 kts Grid 039 Barometer 667 mb (11119. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Jul 28 21:27:05 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <20040729022021.GB26710@bos7.spole.gov> References: <1091062508.3770.56.camel@dhcp-249041> <20040729022021.GB26710@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <200407290228.WAA01807@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > One thing holding me back - no way to erase the parts I have with > me... I can't even use the trick of concentrating sunlight. :-) So, use EEPROMS rather than UVEPROMS (eg, 2832 rather than 2732). Or do you not have any of them? > I have a couple of "ultraviolet" LEDs with me, but I doubt they are > the right frequency to erase EPROMs. Just pop down the block to your friendly neighbourhood tanning salon.... /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jul 28 21:32:44 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer References: Message-ID: <410861CC.1080908@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: > Yes, but how meany single women are there who would put up with me, and > who are actually interested in reading microcode source listings :-) Count this as good thing, other wise you would need a His and Hers Computer. > -tony BTW how often can you find micro code source listings from the old computers anyhow? From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Jul 28 21:43:43 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <200407290228.WAA01807@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <1091062508.3770.56.camel@dhcp-249041> <20040729022021.GB26710@bos7.spole.gov> <200407290228.WAA01807@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040729024343.GA28001@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Jul 28, 2004 at 10:27:05PM -0400, der Mouse wrote: > > One thing holding me back - no way to erase the parts I have with > > me... I can't even use the trick of concentrating sunlight. :-) > > So, use EEPROMS rather than UVEPROMS (eg, 2832 rather than 2732). Or > do you not have any of them? Nope. (I'd need 512kbit parts in any case). > Just pop down the block to your friendly neighbourhood tanning salon.... The closest one would probably be Christchurch, NZ... I'll be there in mid-November. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 29-Jul-2004 02:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -71.0 F (-57.3 C) Windchill -99.40 F (-73 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 6.3 kts Grid 029 Barometer 666.8 mb (11127. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jul 28 21:43:43 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer References: <1091062508.3770.56.camel@dhcp-249041> <20040729022021.GB26710@bos7.spole.gov> <200407290228.WAA01807@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20040729024343.GA28001@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <4108645F.6010803@jetnet.ab.ca> Ethan Dicks wrote: >>Just pop down the block to your friendly neighbourhood tanning salon.... > The closest one would probably be Christchurch, NZ... I'll be there in > mid-November. What about a big electric arc? Just don't weld it to the bench. :) > -ethan From marvin at rain.org Wed Jul 28 22:39:25 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? References: Message-ID: <4108716D.4AEAB546@rain.org> Assuming that you are not talking about S-100 clock/calendar cards, the Lobo Drives Max-80 had a built in clock. Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Does anyone know what was the first computer to have a built-in real-time > clock? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jul 28 23:01:26 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Help with SMS Unibus controller Message-ID: <41087696.2020200@mdrconsult.com> The model number is FD1100i, with a 50-pin Berg header and 3 34-pin headers. Found it in a full-height PDP-11/04. Pics of the SMS board and the 11/04 at http://www.docsbox.net/11-03/ Extreme hi-res scan (1.3MB jpeg) of the SMS board at: http://www.docsbox.net/11-03/FD1100i.jpg Out of consideration for low-bandwidth viewers, the hi-res scan is *not* included in the album. You'll need to go there explicitly. Docs would be nice. Doc From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Jul 28 23:13:29 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Datasheet Message-ID: Recenylt someone mention the SED and DED datasheets - early engineering office humour. Just today I found in my stash a poor photocopy of the National LM0901A... Polish Operational Amplifier. Pretty funny, very stupid, and I must say, it really looks like a National Semi datasheet. Anyone else hear of the this device? I bet National really wishes they had never done this... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From wayne.smith at charter.net Wed Jul 28 23:13:00 2004 From: wayne.smith at charter.net (Wayne Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? In-Reply-To: <200407290359.i6T3xLbc032831@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000201c47522$5a31fda0$6501a8c0@Wayne> HP-75C had one built in. -W > Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 20:39:25 -0700 > From: Marvin Johnston > > Assuming that you are not talking about S-100 clock/calendar > cards, the > Lobo Drives Max-80 had a built in clock. > > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > > Does anyone know what was the first computer to have a > built-in real-time > > clock? > > > > -- > > > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer Festival From dave at mitton.com Wed Jul 28 23:53:59 2004 From: dave at mitton.com (Dave Mitton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: 8" floppy project In-Reply-To: <200407281700.i6SH06bd026039@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040729004352.0409e7c0@getmail.mitton.com> On 7/28/2004 12:00 PM -0500, cctech-request@classiccmp.org wrote: >Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 22:46:49 -0500 >From: Doc Shipley >Subject: Re: 8" floppy project >.. > And I need to be able to accurately copy a bootable RX02 diskette to >a formatted blank. > > I'd *like* to be able to take a disk image of a floppy as a file, and >to write that back out to floppy, but that's gravy. I wrote a set of FORTRAN programs that did that running on RSX-11. I was archiving CP/M diskettes onto RL02s when I worked in TWO. I could read the disks to a file and write multiple copies of CP-MUG distribution diskettes for the New England Computer Society. I don't remember if I ported it to VMS. You needed to have PHYSIO priviledge, and mount the drive FOREIGN, since FCS/RMS kept trying to interpret the floppy as a DEC file system media. I don't remember if I used QIOs or some other FORTRAN file construct. The programs weren't that hard to write, they did require a bit of work to unmap the sector interleaving. They were CP/M standard specific. I even wrote a program that would print a DIR from the image file. I'm sure the programs been lost to time. The CP/M diskettes however, I still have a large box of in the basement. Dave. From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Thu Jul 29 00:19:10 2004 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c4752b$948e1700$4d4d2c0a@atx> > Does anyone know what was the first computer to have a built-in real-time > clock? Depends a bit on what you mean by "real time clock". In earlier days the (salesman's) definition would include a line frequency interrupt. Under that definition most, if not all, 3rd-generation mainframes had one as standard. For most pre-LSI minicomputers it was likely to be an option rather than standard. If you mean a clock that maintains time when power is off or gets the time by radio then we are probably into the micro era. Andy From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 29 00:27:44 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <410861CC.1080908@jetnet.ab.ca> from "ben franchuk" at Jul 28, 4 08:32:44 pm Message-ID: > > Yes, but how meany single women are there who would put up with me, and > > who are actually interested in reading microcode source listings :-) > > Count this as good thing, other wise you would need a His and Hers > Computer. That may be why I have 4 PERQs. 2 each ;-) > BTW how often can you find micro code source listings from the old computers > anyhow? Often enough. Or you can always disassemble the microcode yourself. -tony From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jul 29 00:58:10 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Datasheet References: Message-ID: <410891F2.8010203@jetnet.ab.ca> William Donzelli wrote: > Recenylt someone mention the SED and DED datasheets - early engineering > office humour. Just today I found in my stash a poor photocopy of the > National LM0901A... Polish Operational Amplifier. Pretty funny, very > stupid, and I must say, it really looks like a National Semi datasheet. I saw it on line but I forget where. > Anyone else hear of the this device? I bet National really wishes they had > never done this... Other than Write only memory, I can't think of any other strange data sheets I have seen. > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org Ben. PS. I did a google search for 'electronic humor' and got a on-line version of the LM0901A. They also have some schematic art that is quite funny too. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jul 29 00:59:29 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Datasheet References: Message-ID: <41089241.2010209@jetnet.ab.ca> William Donzelli wrote: > Recenylt someone mention the SED and DED datasheets - early engineering > office humour. Just today I found in my stash a poor photocopy of the > National LM0901A... Polish Operational Amplifier. Pretty funny, very > stupid, and I must say, it really looks like a National Semi datasheet. I saw it on line but I forget where. > Anyone else hear of the this device? I bet National really wishes they had > never done this... Other than Write only memory, I can't think of any other strange data sheets I have seen. > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org Ben. PS. I did a google search for 'electronic humor' and got a on-line version of the LM0901A. They also have some schematic art that is quite funny too. Duh ... I guesss you want the URL too. http://w1.871.telia.com/~u87127076/humor/ From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jul 29 01:01:51 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer References: Message-ID: <410892CF.2030607@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: >>BTW how often can you find micro code source listings from the old computers >>anyhow? > Often enough. Or you can always disassemble the microcode yourself. Real He-men ( and women ) use logic gates. :) > -tony From hansp at citem.org Thu Jul 29 02:35:22 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? In-Reply-To: <000401c4752b$948e1700$4d4d2c0a@atx> References: <000401c4752b$948e1700$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <4108A8BA.9090404@citem.org> Andy Holt wrote: > Depends a bit on what you mean by "real time clock". > In earlier days the (salesman's) definition would include a line frequency > interrupt. > > Under that definition most, if not all, 3rd-generation mainframes had one as > standard. For most pre-LSI minicomputers it was likely to be an option > rather than standard. It goes further back than that. The 7094 modified for CTSS had a periodic interrupt. I assume Sellam means a device which will present the time and possible date maintained independently of the CPU. There I would agree I we are into the mini era if not the micro.... There was an add on RTC clock card for the PDP-11 (but Sellam specified "built-in" ;-) If it does not have to be built in I suspect you could find some earlier examples. ISTR hearing somewhere of units which attached to mainframes which would provide tame and date... -- HansP From dave04a at dunfield.com Thu Jul 29 05:06:13 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer Message-ID: <20040729100612.XLYW3702.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> >> Parts might be a bit hard to find now - uses a 6809 CPU, 6821 PIA, a 6551 >> UART, a few 6264 SRAM's, a handful of latches and 3-4 relays to move the >And thereing lies the problem. Presumably you need to program an EPROM >with the firmware for this 6809. Which is somewhat hard without a >programmer :-)... For some perhaps - at the time, myself, and almost everyone I knew worked for companies with programmers, so it was not a problem. You could also get EPROM programmed at the local shop for a small fee. I also had a bytesaver in my Altair, so I could have bootstrapped up from a 2708 if I'd had to. I didn't program the actual firmware right away - I made a EPROM (at work) with my 6809 monitor program in it, which allowed me to download code into the RAM (normally all used as a data buffer), where I tested and debugged the actual firmware - When I was happy that everything was working correctly, I use the RAM download to program a real EPROM (almost self-booting). If I were doing the same project today, and had absolutely no access to any means of programming the initial EPROM, I would first post in the local groups to see if anyone near me has a programmer, failing that, I would perhaps try this list or other more widespread resources - I'm sure that someone somewhere would be willing to program my monitor (or even a very simple loader would suffice) into that first EPROM for me. All you need is the ability to get code into the device, and you can run from there. I guess what I am saying, is that if you are not prepared to be a little creative, you are probably not well suited to designing/building your own test equipment. >I built my first EPROM programmer about 18 years ago. Programs >2716-27128, using the 'slow' algorithm. It doesn't even handle 12.5V >parts (I should add that feature!). 3 hand-wired boards of mostly TTL, >with a 40 pin AY-3-1015 UART in the middle. Oh yes, it's an EPROM >emulator as well, for the same types of EPROMs. On my original programmer (the homebuilt one), the programming voltage was selected by a physical switch - which selected 12.5, 21 or 25v from "taps" on a couple of stacked regulators - not the most elegant solution, but it worked (and continues to work). I supported the 'fast' algotithm on all by the 2732 (which would have required me to flip one of the relays during program/read turnaround). Ah the "good ol days"... Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From dmhills at attglobal.net Thu Jul 29 04:28:42 2004 From: dmhills at attglobal.net (Don Hills) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: 8" floppy project In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040729004352.0409e7c0@getmail.mitton.com> Message-ID: Some points which may be of assistance: A long time ago, I built and maintained a PC-AT based system for reading/writing 8 inch diskettes. It used a 3rd party floppy controller card that supported FM mode(*), and an 8 inch drive from an AS/400. The crucial thing about the drive was that it was electrically "5.25 inch" compatible - it used the PC interface card-edge data cable and PC 12V/5V connector. In fact, it looked like an enlarged half-height 5.25 inch drive from the front, complete with beige finish and turn-type locking handle. Several DOS disc copy programs of the era supported FM mode for 5.25 inch diskettes on a track-by-track basis, which therefore also worked for the 8 inch drive on 3740-format diskettes (index track FM, the rest MFM). I mainly used an IBM Internal program to handle reading/writing images in IBM's MIF format (an standard file format for storage and transmission of all forms of machine binary data, from punch cards to EPROM images to diskettes to tapes.) I gather from reading the archived thread that your requirements are somewhat more exacting, in that the density changes within a track (FM header and MFM data for each sector). Am I correct, or is it in fact just 3740 style (Track 0 FM, 1-73 MFM)? I have written code to operate the NEC 765 controller directly to handle unusual formats, but I've never tried mixed densities on one track. (*)The standard AT controller supported FM mode, too. I won't go into the history of PC controllers that did or did not support FM mode here, but the facts will be familiar to anyone who uses a PC to read/write 5.25 inch diskettes for BBC micros. -- Don Hills (dmhills at attglobaldotnet) Wellington, New Zealand It's ironic that people who are too smart to engage in politics are governed by people who are not as smart. From dmhills at attglobal.net Thu Jul 29 05:04:01 2004 From: dmhills at attglobal.net (Don Hills) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Thinkpad 500 batteries In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040729004352.0409e7c0@getmail.mitton.com> Message-ID: To the person looking for info about Thinkpad 500 batteries earlier this month: I have one (a TP-500) and I rebuilt the battery for it. A precis: The original designed battery for the TP-500 was a lead-acid unit. It proved dangerously unreliable in service and was replaced by the Ni-MH unit. Inside the battery case is a charge controller circuit and a Duracell DR19 battery pack. These packs are still available, they were used in several Compaq models for example. A crucial difference is that in the TP500 battery, the connector straps from the charge controller have been spot welded to the contacts on the DR19 unit. If you are in DIY mode, you can easily fabricate suitable contect springs (nickel plated coil springs out of an old transistor radio etc) to make contact with the "standard" DR19 contacts. If you aren't DIY minded, any competent battery rebuilder should be able to do the job for you. Just tell them it uses a DR19 pack and they'll need to spot weld or carefully solder the connections. The connection pads on the DR19 are not actually part of the cells so should be able to withstand careful soldering heat. I did mine the hard way. DR19 cells aren't readily available here, so I used individual 4/5 A size cells with solder tabs. The result works fine. Incidentally, the charge controller is there to convert the lead-acid "constant voltage" lead-acid charge supplied by the TP-500 internal charger to the "thermal limited" charge required by Ni-MH cells. -- Don Hills (dmhills at attglobaldotnet) Wellington, New Zealand It's ironic that people who are too smart to engage in politics are governed by people who are not as smart. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jul 29 05:28:12 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: tar (was: Re: Article on data rot on CD's) In-Reply-To: <200407282145.i6SLjpLl031416@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200407282145.i6SLjpLl031416@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <1091096892.12709.23.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-07-28 at 21:45, Brad Parker wrote: > jjd wrote: > >On Wed, 2004-07-28 at 16:14, Doc Shipley wrote: > >> Paul Koning wrote: > >> and the backup software junked. > > > >I laugh at those who criticized me for backing up my system with tar :) > > it's funny, tar seems to be the one thing that still works, despite many other > pieces of backup software (and even compression programs)... Indeed. Doesn't tar have issues over 2GB archive sizes though, where each vendor introduced their own proprietary extensions to allow it to cope? I'm sure I recall something about that a few years ago, but I'm not sure what the 'real' problems are. I'm not sure what the pathname length limit is for tar either (and whether it's platform-specific). Only reason I mention that is because I archived my mail folders (Evolution, Redhat 9) a few weeks ago using tar in verbose mode, and it was truncating some of the file/pathnames *on screen*. I don't know if it was doing the same for the actual files or not as I ended up creating the archive from a directory closer to the actual data I was archiving, so the paths weren't quite as long. Seeing stuff truncated was a little disconcerting though if it was actually doing the same to archive files - I'm sure lots of people use tar without the verbose switch... Anyone got any pointers to a good site stating the different limitations of tar for different vendors / releases? For peace of mind I'd like to know that my enormous archive created on system bar will work on system foo in ten years time... :-) cheers Jules From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu Jul 29 06:04:36 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Datasheet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Available on-line at http://w1.871.telia.com/~u87127076/humor/pol-amp1.htm >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of William Donzelli >>> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 12:13 AM >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: Datasheet >>> >>> Recenylt someone mention the SED and DED datasheets - early >>> engineering office humour. Just today I found in my stash a >>> poor photocopy of the National LM0901A... Polish >>> Operational Amplifier. Pretty funny, very stupid, and I >>> must say, it really looks like a National Semi datasheet. >>> >>> Anyone else hear of the this device? I bet National really >>> wishes they had never done this... >>> >>> William Donzelli >>> aw288@osfn.org >>> From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jul 29 06:49:59 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? In-Reply-To: <4108716D.4AEAB546@rain.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Marvin Johnston wrote: > Assuming that you are not talking about S-100 clock/calendar cards, the > Lobo Drives Max-80 had a built in clock. I'm thinking farther back. Was there any mini or mainframe that had a real-time clock built in or as an add-on option? It's come up in some litigation. The actual issue at hand is that someone was able to overturn a patent by claiming the IBM 650 had a real-time clock built in. They "proved" this by submitting as evidence a printout that had the date printed on it(!) I've checked the IBM 650 Manual of Operation and it makes no mention whatsoever of a real-time clock. I pretty much figured it wouldn't but I of course had to do due diligence. But it made me wonder: what was the first computer to have a built-in real-time clock? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jul 29 06:51:04 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? In-Reply-To: <000201c47522$5a31fda0$6501a8c0@Wayne> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Wayne Smith wrote: > HP-75C had one built in. Hmm. Interesting. That's early 1980s, if not late 1970s, correct? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jul 29 06:52:42 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? In-Reply-To: <000401c4752b$948e1700$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Jul 2004, Andy Holt wrote: > If you mean a clock that maintains time when power is off or gets the time > by radio then we are probably into the micro era. Yes. But I can't imagine there was not a real-time clock (i.e. as described above) as at least an option for an earlier computer system. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jul 29 06:57:59 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Datasheet In-Reply-To: <410891F2.8010203@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, ben franchuk wrote: > PS. I did a google search for 'electronic humor' and got a on-line > version of the LM0901A. > They also have some schematic art that is quite funny too. I did the same search but didn't find it (I didn't spend too much time). But I did come across this bit of sillyness: REWARD OFFERED A REWARD OF 500 MICROFARADS IS OFFERED FOR THE INFORMATION LEADING TO THE ARREST OF HOP-A-LONG CAPACITY. THIS UNRECTIFIED CRIMINAL ESCAPED FROM A WESTERN PRIMARY CELL WHERE HE HAD BEEN CLAMPED IN IONS AWAITING THE GAUSS CHAMBER. HE IS CHARGED WITH THE INDUCTION OF AN 18 TURN COIL NAMED MILLI HENRY WHO WAS FOUND CHOKED AND ROBBED OF VALUABLE JOULES. HE IS ARMED WITH A CARBON ROD AND IS A POTENTIAL KILLER. CAPACITY IS ALSO CHARGED WITH DRIVING DC MOTOR OVER A WHEATSTONE BRIDGE AND REFUSING TO LET THE BAND-PASS. IF ENCOUNTERED, HE MAY OFFER SERIES OF RESISTANCE. THE ELECTROMOTIVE FORCE SPENT THE NIGHT SEARCHING FOR HIM IN A MAGNETIC FIELD, WHERE HE HAD GONE TO EARTH. THEY HAD NO SUCCESS AND BELIEVED HE HAD RETURNED OHM VIA A SHORT CIRCUIT HE WAS LAST SEEN RIDING A KILOCYCLE WITH HIS FRIEND EDDY CURRENT WHO WAS PLAYING A HARMONIC. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A bit of humor written by Mr. Mark Bushnell, Director of Engineering at CCA Electronics, the transmitter people. http://www.repeater-builder.com/humor/bushnellhumor.html -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jul 29 06:59:25 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? In-Reply-To: <4108A8BA.9090404@citem.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Jul 2004, Hans B PUFAL wrote: > I assume Sellam means a device which will present the time and possible > date maintained independently of the CPU. There I would agree I we are > into the mini era if not the micro.... There was an add on RTC clock > card for the PDP-11 (but Sellam specified "built-in" ;-) If it does not > have to be built in I suspect you could find some earlier examples. ISTR > hearing somewhere of units which attached to mainframes which would > provide tame and date... Yes, I would also be interested in hearing of any add-on devices. I'm assuming IBM had something of the sort. Did they have anything like that for the 650? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu Jul 29 07:27:39 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Old Computer/math humor... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That is a classic. Brings back memories of a story about "Miss Poly Nomial". I had a printout of that from Dartmouth back in the mid/late seventies [on green-bar paper!]. Lost the printout during a job change in 1992. If anyone has a copy of the story I would greaatly appreciate it [It entd with a statement about too many degrees of freedom]. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage >>> Computer Festival >>> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 7:58 AM >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>> Subject: Re: Datasheet >>> >>> On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, ben franchuk wrote: >>> >>> > PS. I did a google search for 'electronic humor' and got >>> a on-line >>> > version of the LM0901A. >>> > They also have some schematic art that is quite funny too. >>> >>> I did the same search but didn't find it (I didn't spend >>> too much time). >>> >>> But I did come across this bit of sillyness: >>> >>> REWARD OFFERED >>> A REWARD OF 500 MICROFARADS IS OFFERED FOR THE INFORMATION >>> LEADING TO THE ARREST OF HOP-A-LONG CAPACITY. THIS >>> UNRECTIFIED CRIMINAL ESCAPED FROM A WESTERN PRIMARY CELL >>> WHERE HE HAD BEEN CLAMPED IN IONS AWAITING THE GAUSS CHAMBER. >>> >>> HE IS CHARGED WITH THE INDUCTION OF AN 18 TURN COIL NAMED >>> MILLI HENRY WHO WAS FOUND CHOKED AND ROBBED OF VALUABLE >>> JOULES. HE IS ARMED WITH A CARBON ROD AND IS A POTENTIAL >>> KILLER. CAPACITY IS ALSO CHARGED WITH DRIVING DC MOTOR OVER >>> A WHEATSTONE BRIDGE AND REFUSING TO LET THE BAND-PASS. >>> >>> IF ENCOUNTERED, HE MAY OFFER SERIES OF RESISTANCE. THE >>> ELECTROMOTIVE FORCE SPENT THE NIGHT SEARCHING FOR HIM IN A >>> MAGNETIC FIELD, WHERE HE HAD GONE TO EARTH. THEY HAD NO >>> SUCCESS AND BELIEVED HE HAD RETURNED OHM VIA A SHORT CIRCUIT >>> >>> HE WAS LAST SEEN RIDING A KILOCYCLE WITH HIS FRIEND EDDY >>> CURRENT WHO WAS PLAYING A HARMONIC. >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> -------------------- >>> >>> A bit of humor written by Mr. Mark Bushnell, Director of >>> Engineering at CCA Electronics, the transmitter people. >>> >>> >>> http://www.repeater-builder.com/humor/bushnellhumor.html >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Sellam Ismail >>> Vintage Computer Festival >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> International Man of Intrigue and Danger >>> http://www.vintage.org >>> >>> [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade >>> Vintage Computers ] >>> [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at >>> http://marketplace.vintage.org ] >>> From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Jul 29 07:38:27 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Old Computer/math humor... In-Reply-To: from "David V. Corbin" at Jul 29, 04 08:27:39 am Message-ID: <200407291238.IAA03640@wordstock.com> And thusly David V. Corbin spake: > > That is a classic. Brings back memories of a story about "Miss Poly Nomial". > I had a printout of that from Dartmouth back in the mid/late seventies [on > green-bar paper!]. Lost the printout during a job change in 1992. If anyone > has a copy of the story I would greaatly appreciate it [It entd with a > statement about too many degrees of freedom]. > > I think this is what you want... http://home.dialix.com/~u5453/PollyNomial.html Cheers, Bryan Pope From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Jul 29 08:40:34 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's References: <3.0.6.32.20040728121126.009b9530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <10407281922.ZM28583@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <4107FCFD.6030205@mdrconsult.com> <16647.65371.706000.557188@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4108090D.6070900@mdrconsult.com> <014701c474e2$d1c472c0$0500fea9@game> <410817B5.2050204@mdrconsult.com> <019b01c474ec$dc17d5f0$0500fea9@game> <6.1.1.1.0.20040729005135.0422bb08@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <16648.65106.994076.167552@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Rob" == Rob O'Donnell writes: Rob> At 22:50 28/07/2004, Teo wrote: >> Shouldn't he have a permanent backup tape every so often in the >> cycle? If you screw up or delete a file and don't notice it >> quickly it will get lost in the rotating cycle. The major problem >> I see companies forgetting is offsite storage of backups in case >> of fire or something like that. Most companies would not survive a >> fire because their financial backups would be gone. Rob> Back in my previous employment, we had a customer who were very Rob> strict on doing backups (on DDS2) every night. Once done, the Rob> tapes were locked in the safe, for security. Smallish thing, Rob> more of a fire-safe than anything else. Rob> Everything was fine... until the day they were broken into, and Rob> their computers and server were stolen. And so was the safe! That's why a safe chosen for burglar resistance (as opposed to fire resistance) has to be either bolted to the building structure with big bolts, or weigh 800+ pounds. Another fun issue with fire-safes is that there are two kinds: one suitable for paper, one suitable for computer media. The kind that is meant for paper gets hot and humid in a fire, which will definitely destroy the magnetic media inside. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Jul 29 08:41:40 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Good news on my RK05 drives References: Message-ID: <16648.65172.208086.49358@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell writes: >> I wrote a little test program to attempt to read random blocks and >> I watched the read/write head. It did move in and out like it >> should. If it was attempting to read a low numbered block, it >> moved just a little bit. If it was attempting to read a high >> numbered block, it moved farther toward the center of the platter. >> However, every Tony> That sounds right. There should be a vernier scale on the Tony> positioner so you can check it's going to the correct cylinder, Tony> but at this point I'd assume it was not the problem. >> attempt to read or write resulted in an error. The head would >> position to the appropriate(?) position on the disk, sit there a >> short while, and then move back to cylinder 0. Tony> This is presumably due to your program, or the RSTS driver. The Tony> hardware should not do this. Can you execute seek commands from Tony> the front panel? If so, I assume the head goes to a cylinder Tony> and stays there. Yup. Typical software error handling is to do a couple of retries, and finally end up with a drive reset or "recalibrate". That's the control/alt/del of hard drives... :-) paul From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu Jul 29 09:06:11 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: Old Computer/math humor... In-Reply-To: <200407291238.IAA03640@wordstock.com> Message-ID: Brian, Thanks! That is exactly it. To all how appreciate mathematics, give it a read! David. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Pope >>> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 8:38 AM >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: Re: Old Computer/math humor... >>> >>> And thusly David V. Corbin spake: >>> > >>> > That is a classic. Brings back memories of a story about >>> "Miss Poly Nomial". >>> > I had a printout of that from Dartmouth back in the >>> mid/late seventies >>> > [on green-bar paper!]. Lost the printout during a job >>> change in 1992. >>> > If anyone has a copy of the story I would greaatly >>> appreciate it [It >>> > entd with a statement about too many degrees of freedom]. >>> > >>> > >>> >>> I think this is what you want... >>> >>> http://home.dialix.com/~u5453/PollyNomial.html >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Bryan Pope >>> From rickb at bensene.com Thu Jul 29 09:01:43 2004 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:35 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000d01c47574$941e0cf0$030aa8c0@bensene.com> I once used an old computer made by 3M that was transistorized and used a magnetic drum as main storage. The machine was actually two processors, each of which fit in 12U rackmount drawers. Along with the two processors was another 19" 6' tall rack full of acquisition electronics...DACs, comparators, and counters, which were peripherals to the CPUs, which had I/O instructions to talk to the stuff. Included in the rack full of electronics was a real-time clock that kept track of the time in HH:MM:SS format. It did not keep track of the date, only the time. The clock was transistorized, using ring counters. The clock also put out 1Hz pulse that set a flip flop that could be polled, and reset by the CPU. I used this 1Hz signal along with the time from the clock to maintain date/time in a small operating system that I wrote for the machine as a class project. As I recall, there was no interrupt capability on the machine. The clock had a front panel display that showed the current time, as well as controls to halt the clock and set the time (advance hours, minutes or seconds). As I recall, the clock derived its timing from the 60Hz AC power line. The clock could he read by either CPU by accessing a read-only peripheral register. The time was returned in BCD format. My understanding is that the machine was designed in the early 1960's. It was designed specifically for data acquisition processes. I've written to 3M to try to find out any information they may have, but alas, none survives. Unfortunately, I can't remember the model number of the machine. The machine I used was donated to the high school I attended sometime in the early '70's, after being used for quite a long time as a natural gas pipeline monitoring system at Northwest Natural Gas in Portland, OR. The machine used a 24-bit word, with two-address (operand & next instruction) format. Opcodes were 5 bits in length. It had a hard-wired "read in mode" where it would accept input from a teletype (ASR-33) in the form of octal address followed by a space, followed by the data to be written to that address. Addressing was stated in block/track/sector format. The instruction set included information for optimal programming to allow for the rotational latencies of the drum. The machine was rather slow, even when programmed optimally. I recall that I had a hard time writing code that could send output to the teletype at full speed. Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Web Museum http://oldcalculatormuseum.com From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Jul 29 09:11:49 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? References: <4108716D.4AEAB546@rain.org> Message-ID: <16649.1445.505920.651205@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Vintage" == Vintage Computer Festival writes: Vintage> On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Marvin Johnston wrote: >> Assuming that you are not talking about S-100 clock/calendar >> cards, the Lobo Drives Max-80 had a built in clock. Vintage> I'm thinking farther back. Was there any mini or mainframe Vintage> that had a real-time clock built in or as an add-on option? Vintage> It's come up in some litigation. The actual issue at hand Vintage> is that someone was able to overturn a patent by claiming Vintage> the IBM 650 had a real-time clock built in. They "proved" Vintage> this by submitting as evidence a printout that had the date Vintage> printed on it(!) I've checked the IBM 650 Manual of Vintage> Operation and it makes no mention whatsoever of a real-time Vintage> clock. I pretty much figured it wouldn't but I of course Vintage> had to do due diligence. Vintage> But it made me wonder: what was the first computer to have a Vintage> built-in real-time clock? I second the question -- defined how? For answering the litigation, you'd really need to know that... If the answer is: a device that maintains the time of day independent of the computer power, the oldest I know of is the DEC KW11-W (?not sure about the suffix). I don't remember when that came out, but it probably predates microcomputers. It wasn't a popular option. Another example, from roughly the same era, is the TOY clock in the Pro-350. That's a microcomputer chip, so presumably some PC type system offered it as well. (That may apply to the KW11-W as well... I don't know.) On the other hand, if the definition is a device that allows the computer to keep time while it is powered on -- which is all that you can deduce from the 650 example you quoted -- then certainly it goes as far back as the CDC 6600 (1964) and probably a lot further. Then again, that's after the IBM 650. By either definition we're talking about something that came out well over 20 years ago, so it would be "prior art" invalidating any current patent. paul From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Jul 29 10:44:16 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? Message-ID: <0407291544.AA06131@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > If you mean a clock that maintains time when power is off or gets the time > > by radio then we are probably into the micro era. > > Yes. > > But I can't imagine there was not a real-time clock (i.e. as described > above) as at least an option for an earlier computer system. VAX Architecture Reference Manual requires every VAX to have one, and they all indeed do starting with the 11/780. Was the 780 introduced in 1978 or 1979? In any case it was designed in the late 1970s. MS From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Jul 29 10:47:45 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: tar (was: Re: Article on data rot on CD's) In-Reply-To: <1091096892.12709.23.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <200407282145.i6SLjpLl031416@mwave.heeltoe.com> <1091096892.12709.23.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200407291602.MAA15074@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >>> I laugh at those who criticized me for backing up my system with tar :) >> it's funny, tar seems to be the one thing that still works, [...] > Indeed. Doesn't tar have issues over 2GB archive sizes though, No, though some implementations of tar do. tar does have issues with individual files over 8G, I think it is; if I'm reading this code right, the size field in the header is only 33 bits wide (11 octal digits). > I'm not sure what the pathname length limit is for tar either 100 characters. Some versions of tar (mine, GNU) use various extensions to effectively raise this limit; others break in various ways on pathnames that exceed it - or, in particularly bad implementations, approach it too closely. I would really like to find a spec for the tar format. Everyone waves hands and talks about this standard and that, but I've never actually managed to track down a spec. > Anyone got any pointers to a good site stating the different > limitations of tar for different vendors / releases? I don't know about a "site", but Elizabeth Zwicky, years ago, did a lovely little paper called _Torture-testing Backup and Archive Programs: Things You Ought to Know But Probably Would Rather Not_. According to the (paper) copy I have, it was presented at LISA V in 1991. While some of the programs listed have doubtless had new versions released in the more than a decade since then, others (such as SunOS tar) which many classiccmpers are likely to be using haven't. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Jul 29 11:03:12 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? In-Reply-To: <0407291544.AA06131@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0407291544.AA06131@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200407291609.MAA15113@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >>> If you mean a clock that maintains time when power is off or [...] >> But I can't imagine there was not a real-time clock (i.e. as >> described above) as at least an option for an earlier computer >> system. > VAX Architecture Reference Manual requires every VAX to have one, and > they all indeed do starting with the 11/780. If you mean the ICCS/ICR/NICR stuff, that's not as described above - it counts only when power is on, and even then only when told to by software. If you mean the TODR, that _is_ as described above, but _not_ all VAXen have one; the KA630 documentation, at least, describes the TODR as class 3: writes ignored, reads always return 0. (The KA630 does have a clock chip which can be used to do similar things, but it's not a VARM-described mechanism - at least not my edition of the VARM.) For the purposes of the discussion that produced this thread, though, the VAX does count, since the flagship VAX, the 780, did have it. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Jul 29 11:21:32 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer Message-ID: <200407291621.JAA23110@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "ben franchuk" > >Ethan Dicks wrote: > >>>Just pop down the block to your friendly neighbourhood tanning salon.... >> The closest one would probably be Christchurch, NZ... I'll be there in >> mid-November. > >What about a big electric arc? >Just don't weld it to the bench. :) > >> -ethan > Hi Ethan Ben's idea is great. You just need an arc. There must be an arc welder around the place for maintenance. Even an arc from a low voltage, high current power supply would work well. The best electrodes would of course be carbon but even an iron welding rod arc produces abundent UV across the entire spectrum. Make sure to have something to block the UV from you. Eye and skin damage can happen with even a small arc. What kinds of parts do you have access to? A number of 7414's, 7400's and 74374's ( or similar families ) would handle the logic part of connecting to a PC's parallel port. All you'd need is a couple transistors to switch the VPP on and a diode or two to supply bypass. As I recall, these PROMs only need logic level switching for the actual programming. You don't need any counters the printer port can be divided up to supply all the needed expansion ports using the 374's. Of course, If you had several parallel ports from a number of I/O boards, collected from several PC's, you could avoid a lot of circuitry. Just run the wires to the chip. Stretch your imagination, I'm sure you'll find that there are many ways to skin a cat. Dwight Dwight From dave04a at dunfield.com Thu Jul 29 11:37:26 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? Message-ID: <20040729163725.BCWB2991.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> >Hmm. Interesting. That's early 1980s, if not late 1970s, correct? I have installed in my Altair, a Compu/Time CT-102 real-time-clock board which was purchased in 1979. This board supports a battery backup option. This is basically a "digital clock" chip with BCD outputs (intended to drive BCD to 7-segment decoders) on an S-100 board. The fact that it is a chip intended for a clock display gives rise to certain odd characteristics: - Certain leading digits read 'F' instead of '0' for a zero value - this is because 'F' == Blank on the 7-segment decoder. - To set the time, the software has to "hold down" Fast and Slow time set buttons, and watch the time value scroll by until the desired setting is reached - just the way a human would set a digital clock from that era. Photos of this card and scans if it's documentation are available in the Altair section on my site. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Thu Jul 29 12:37:25 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: VCF Security References: <20040728181121.32578.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <410935D5.64EE52F3@msm.umr.edu> evan wrote: > Michael, A book Fair on the west coast here, which I won't name in case it could get me in hot water had $250,000 in theft during the first day they were in their meeting hall. This was all before the doors opened to the public. The theft level declined after the public was let in. I mention this just as a point of reference. I am glad that the collector group that attends VCF is not apparently composed of rare book dealers. Jim From dundas at caltech.edu Thu Jul 29 12:44:57 2004 From: dundas at caltech.edu (dundas@caltech.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? Message-ID: <3194599973dundas@caltech.edu> > On Thu, 29 Jul 2004, Andy Holt wrote: > > > If you mean a clock that maintains time when power is off or gets the time > > by radio then we are probably into the micro era. > > Yes. > > But I can't imagine there was not a real-time clock (i.e. as described > above) as at least an option for an earlier computer system. Certainly during the era of PDP-11s, DEC had a number of possible solutions, though our lab never used them. Instead we used the Digital Pathways TCU series. For example, see the manual for a Unibus board: We used these in several 11/55s: There were also Qbus versions: and See this for more information: Granted this was probably well after the IBM 650 (I'm not familiar with that machine). Hope this helps. John From ohh at drizzle.com Thu Jul 29 12:45:13 2004 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: Datasheet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Are some of the stranger datasheets posted online somewhere?... The spec-sheet for Rane Audio's PI-14 Pseudoacoustic Infector is available as a PDF at http://www.rane.com/pdf/old/pi14dat.pdf . It's an interesting piece of gear, I must say. I quote one paragraph: "Nothing has been left out. Transparent to the user but essential to the design is the 128-bit microcontroller runningthe front panel. Rane's exclusive artificial intelligence (AI) algorithm determines whether the user knows what he's (it's always a he; she's are too smart to buy this thing) doing. The AI controller always overrides totally stupid input. In addition, an autopilot mode exists, whereby the AI controller pre-determines what the operator wants, and executes it beforehand. And finally, the AI controller features DWIWNWIS (Do what I want, not what I say) trouble free control interface." Ahhh, if only more gear came so equipped... :) -O.- From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jul 29 12:54:18 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: VCF Security In-Reply-To: <410935D5.64EE52F3@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Jul 2004, jim wrote: > A book Fair on the west coast here, which I won't name in case > it could get me in hot water had $250,000 in theft during the first > day they were in their meeting hall. This was all before the doors > opened to the public. > > The theft level declined after the public was let in. > > I mention this just as a point of reference. I am glad that the collector > group that attends VCF is not apparently composed of rare book > dealers. Yeha, me too. Sheesh. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jul 29 12:55:53 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: Datasheet References: Message-ID: <41093A29.1040104@jetnet.ab.ca> O. Sharp wrote: > Are some of the stranger datasheets posted online somewhere?... > > The spec-sheet for Rane Audio's PI-14 Pseudoacoustic Infector is available > as a PDF at http://www.rane.com/pdf/old/pi14dat.pdf . It's an interesting > piece of gear, I must say. I quote one paragraph: > > "Nothing has been left out. Transparent to the user but essential > to the design is the 128-bit microcontroller runningthe front panel. > Rane's exclusive artificial intelligence (AI) algorithm determines > whether the user knows what he's (it's always a he; she's are too > smart to buy this thing) doing. The AI controller always overrides > totally stupid input. In addition, an autopilot mode exists, whereby > the AI controller pre-determines what the operator wants, and > executes it beforehand. And finally, the AI controller features > DWIWNWIS (Do what I want, not what I say) trouble free control > interface." > > Ahhh, if only more gear came so equipped... :) > > -O.- > > . > No No No ... 126 bits is needed - real AI computers use OCTAL. Work it out for your self ... the real ANSWER is here thanks to DEEP THOUGHT. Ben. From aek at spies.com Thu Jul 29 13:02:59 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: Don Senzig 4/13/1951 - 7/27/2004 Message-ID: <20040729180259.23A933C9C@spies.com> Just about anyone involved in home computing in SE Wisconsin knew Don. He and I were close friends for almost thirty years and wanted to let others who may be out of the area know about this. Senzig, Donald John Jr MILWAUKEE - Age 53, passed away at his home in Milwaukee on Tuesday July 27, 2004. Born April 13, 1951 in Milwaukee ,WI. Son of Donald and Adoree (Larson) Senzig of Caledonia, WI. Son-in Law of Ralph and Catherine Dean Donald found the job he loved at Medpacs ,Waukesha. He had worked in the Milwaukee Road enginehouse, Plastic Parts of Union Grove, Siemens Nuclear, Sector Engineering, Compuware, private consulting and Milwaukee Area Television Access (MATA). In these diverse jobs Don consistently demonstrated his natural ability and immense capacity to troubleshoot and repair anything that moved, whirred or lit up. At a young age Don learned to repair TV's and electronics working with his father Donald Senzig Sr. He repaired TV's as a hobby. In 1968 while a student at Case High School he programmed a timeshare computer, and participated in many theatrical productions. In 1975 Don built his first computer from an Altair 8800 kit. How much fun it was to play "kill the bit". Around this time, at the start of the personal computer revolution Don arranged the first computer/gaming exhibition at a local Science Fiction Convention. A genius at electronics and computers Don was always ready to help people learn and to learn from them. One of his favorite collaborators was Dorothy. Don helped authors, and Democratic candidates learn how to use computers. With incredible patience Don could help them achieve goals that they did not believe possible. In 1975 Don helped found the Wisconsin Computing Society that still meets, helping members explore computer technology. From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Jul 29 13:00:06 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: VCF Security In-Reply-To: <410935D5.64EE52F3@msm.umr.edu> from "jim" at Jul 29, 04 10:37:25 am Message-ID: <200407291800.OAA04854@wordstock.com> And thusly jim spake: > > > > evan wrote: > > > Michael, > > A book Fair on the west coast here, which I won't name in case > it could get me in hot water had $250,000 in theft during the first > day they were in their meeting hall. This was all before the doors > opened to the public. I have heard that the rare bookseller business is extremely cutthroat. > > The theft level declined after the public was let in. > > I mention this just as a point of reference. I am glad that the collector > group that attends VCF is not apparently composed of rare book > dealers. I suspect that as machines become even more rare and their value spiking up will attract unsavory people trying to make a lot of money with very little effort. :( But on a positive note: I believe we are all right now in the infancy of classic computer collecting. Cheers, Bryan Pope From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Thu Jul 29 13:32:21 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? In-Reply-To: <0407291544.AA06131@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <002c01c4759a$6bdf5bb0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > VAX Architecture Reference Manual requires every VAX to have one, > and they all indeed do starting with the 11/780. Was the 780 > introduced in 1978 or 1979? In any case it was designed in the late > 1970s. The first VAX-11/780 rolled off the prouction line in October 1977 and the machine was officially announced in November 1977. I'd be very surprised if it turned out to be the first computer with a real-time clock fitted as standard! The 1973 pdp-11 processor handbook indicates that the PDP-11/05 and PDP-11/10 had a line frequency clock and the PDP-11/35 and PDP-11/40 are pre-wired to accept a KW11-I. So they could track the passage of time, but not while the power was off. I doubt that any PDP-8 came with any such option so the only realistic DEC possibility left would be the PDP-10 range, of which I have no experience. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From tomj at wps.com Thu Jul 29 14:28:48 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: Stupid NetBSD/SIMH question In-Reply-To: <9250989233c2.9233c2925098@optonline.net> References: <9250989233c2.9233c2925098@optonline.net> Message-ID: <1091129327.5614.3.camel@dhcp-251203> On Wed, 2004-07-28 at 12:31, rcini@optonline.net wrote: > I'm playing wround with the SIMH VAX emulator and I'm running NetBSD 1.6.2. I'm not too strong on Unix/variants so this might be a stupid question. I want to play around with some of the included games but I can't get them to run. > > I'm logged in as root (by default, the disk image has only one user) and there's a games directory under /usr/games. Here are two typical entries: Well, RTFM :-) There are a lot of OK intro's to unix, you shoudl check one out. FIrst, you shouldn't be running programs as root, just as you shouldn't run things as administrator on windows. It's bad practice, I know it's a sim, but habits carry over... Root user environments are often less casual and friendly (eg. paths) than normal users, and you ought to get in the habit of configuring it right (eg. in your .bashrc or whatever to match your shell). I of course recognize that your first (few!) times out, you'll make a mess of the disk, etc, which is perfectly fine -- explore! You can always reload, and doing it wrong is often tyhe best way to figure out what's a right way -- but then switch to the (a) right way... :-) From tomj at wps.com Thu Jul 29 14:31:09 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1091129468.5614.6.camel@dhcp-251203> On Wed, 2004-07-28 at 19:12, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Does anyone know what was the first computer to have a built-in > real-time > clock? Certainly before 1955. Hell, a COLOSSUS could have had one and it ain't even a computer. From tomj at wps.com Thu Jul 29 14:34:27 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? In-Reply-To: <000401c4752b$948e1700$4d4d2c0a@atx> References: <000401c4752b$948e1700$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <1091129667.5614.10.camel@dhcp-251203> On Wed, 2004-07-28 at 22:19, Andy Holt wrote: > Depends a bit on what you mean by "real time clock". For many decades "real time clock" has meant some sort of repeatable time event, eg. 60Hz line, 1mS, usually in the form of an interrupt. I'm certain terminology has varied all over the place (never mind non-English) but reasonably universally this is the intent. That other thing, electronic or otherwise, that knows about Julian dates and tea time and all that is called a "clock/calendar" or something like that. From tomj at wps.com Thu Jul 29 14:50:34 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1091130633.5614.26.camel@dhcp-251203> On Thu, 2004-07-29 at 04:49, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > It's come up in some litigation. The actual issue at hand is that someone > was able to overturn a patent by claiming the IBM 650 had a real-time > clock built in. They "proved" this by submitting as evidence a printout > that had the date printed on it(!) I've checked the IBM 650 Manual of > Operation and it makes no mention whatsoever of a real-time clock. I > pretty much figured it wouldn't but I of course had to do due diligence. Oh this makes it more interesting! I know that I have a book that discusses the development of this, in practical terms, it would be mid/late 1950's. It would take some research to find it. Certainly there were time-periodic interrupts for isochronous purposes by 1960, whether the 650 had one or not. "Keep time when the power is off" -- umm kids, for giant old machines, turning the power off was like a massive emergency/annual maintenance event/likely disaster/call-the-boss-up-at-3am, retaining the time would be looooow on the list of things-to-worry about. 1970's DG RTOS and RDOS, for example, supported time-of-day, maintained by the RTC option on the CPU board -- which option was some TTL chip and a crystal. It generated a periodic interrupt. Upon shutdown/reboot (it was a small mini, no catastrophe :-) you'd enter the date & time. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Jul 29 14:37:34 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <200407291621.JAA23110@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200407291621.JAA23110@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <200407291952.PAA16495@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> What about a big electric arc? > Ben's idea is great. You just need an arc. There must be an arc > welder around the place for maintenance. Even an arc from a low > voltage, high current power supply would work well. Assuming of course it can be maintained long enough to produce a sufficient dose of UV. > The best electrodes would of course be carbon but even an iron > welding rod arc produces abundent UV across the entire spectrum. Indeed, it splatters electromagnetic radiation across a very wide range. Based on how hot it is (the core of the arc is plasma, not even one of the normal three states of matter), the intensity curve is probably still rising as the frequency leaves the range in question. > Make sure to have something to block the UV from you. Eye and skin > damage can happen with even a small arc. And note that just because it's cut down to something that doesn't look too bright ISN'T ENOUGH. My father told of a time he had arc-welding to do with no proper helmet/goggles available. He used about 15 pairs of sunglasses instead, and it brought the intensity down to the point where it didn't feel uncomfortably bright. What he didn't realize is that a welding arc pumps out far more UV than it does visible, and while a welding helmet cuts the UV down to safe levels, sunglasses don't (sunlight contains, proportionately, far less UV than welding-arc light). The visible light was indeed cut to safe levels, but the UV wasn't, and he sunburned his eyes rather badly. His comparison was that it was like living with a handful of sand in each eye for a week - distinctly unfun, and who knows what long-term damage it might have done. Assuming you aren't around it enough to sunburn your skin, closing your eyes is enough. Eyelids _do_ cut UV concentrations sufficiently. :) (My father said that after that, whenever he's had to weld sans helmet, he's set it up, closed his eyes, struck the arc and welded by feel and sound, opening his eyes only after breaking the arc. It sounds difficult, and it is, but I've done enough arc-welding myself to know that it's plausible for someone with a decent amount of experience.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jul 29 15:09:20 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 systems going... Message-ID: Going... Anyone interested? Their pardon runs out tomorrow... PS/2 Model 50 PS/2 Model 50Z PS/2 Model 35 SX -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jul 29 15:17:50 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? In-Reply-To: <002c01c4759a$6bdf5bb0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Jul 2004, Antonio Carlini wrote: > The first VAX-11/780 rolled off the prouction line in > October 1977 and the machine was officially announced > in November 1977. > > I'd be very surprised if it turned out to be the > first computer with a real-time clock fitted as > standard! Me too. IBM once manufactured time clocks. Here's an example of a particularly nice one: http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/attic3/attic3_118.html Here's another: http://www.clock-museum.co.uk/c75.htm And another: http://www.clock-museum.co.uk/w0814.htm These were used to keep accurate time for a variety of systems ("systems" not necessarily meaning computers). I can't imagine IBM did not have a clock product that could integrate with a computer, or even an accounting machine (going back to pre-computer days). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jul 29 15:19:20 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: VCF Security In-Reply-To: <200407291800.OAA04854@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Jul 2004, Bryan Pope wrote: > I suspect that as machines become even more rare and their value spiking up > will attract unsavory people trying to make a lot of money with very little > effort. :( It's called eBay ;) > But on a positive note: I believe we are all right now in the infancy of > classic computer collecting. My diaper needs changing. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jul 29 15:20:38 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? In-Reply-To: <1091129667.5614.10.camel@dhcp-251203> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Jul 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > On Wed, 2004-07-28 at 22:19, Andy Holt wrote: > > > Depends a bit on what you mean by "real time clock". > > For many decades "real time clock" has meant some sort of repeatable > time event, eg. 60Hz line, 1mS, usually in the form of an interrupt. I'm > certain terminology has varied all over the place (never mind > non-English) but reasonably universally this is the intent. > > That other thing, electronic or otherwise, that knows about Julian dates > and tea time and all that is called a "clock/calendar" or something like > that. I'm more interested in a clock/calendar: something that could be polled and produce the local time and date. I'll bet an interesting history lurks behind such a seemingly simple topic (real-time clock calendar deployment in computers). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 29 15:19:38 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? In-Reply-To: References: <4108716D.4AEAB546@rain.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040729161938.0090e320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:49 AM 7/29/04 -0700, you wrote: >On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Marvin Johnston wrote: > >> Assuming that you are not talking about S-100 clock/calendar cards, the >> Lobo Drives Max-80 had a built in clock. > >I'm thinking farther back. Was there any mini or mainframe that had a >real-time clock built in or as an add-on option? The HP 9826 and 9836 had a battery backed RTC as part of the battery backup/power fail option but I'm not sure of the date. Hmm. Come to think of it, the HP-01 would probably count too. Joe > >It's come up in some litigation. The actual issue at hand is that someone >was able to overturn a patent by claiming the IBM 650 had a real-time >clock built in. They "proved" this by submitting as evidence a printout >that had the date printed on it(!) I've checked the IBM 650 Manual of >Operation and it makes no mention whatsoever of a real-time clock. I >pretty much figured it wouldn't but I of course had to do due diligence. > >But it made me wonder: what was the first computer to have a built-in >real-time clock? > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 29 15:18:28 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? In-Reply-To: <3194599973dundas@caltech.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040729161828.00939d10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> John, Do you have any docs for the Digital pathways cards? I have a pile of them. Joe At 10:44 AM 7/29/04 -0700, John wrote: >> On Thu, 29 Jul 2004, Andy Holt wrote: >> >> > If you mean a clock that maintains time when power is off or gets the time >> > by radio then we are probably into the micro era. >> >> Yes. >> >> But I can't imagine there was not a real-time clock (i.e. as described >> above) as at least an option for an earlier computer system. > >Certainly during the era of PDP-11s, DEC had a number of possible solutions, >though our lab never used them. Instead we used the Digital Pathways TCU >series. For example, see the manual for a Unibus board: > > > >We used these in several 11/55s: > > > >There were also Qbus versions: > > and > > >See this for more information: > > > >Granted this was probably well after the IBM 650 (I'm not familiar with that >machine). > >Hope this helps. > >John > > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 29 15:24:32 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: Stag PP-40, Re: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040728121435.008c0590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040727214159.00b46d70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040728121435.008c0590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040729162432.00932540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:43 PM 7/28/04 +0100, you wrote: >In message <3.0.6.32.20040728121435.008c0590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> > "Joe R." wrote: > >> All the Needham and Stag stuff also works fine. >I don't suppose anyone here has the schematics for the Stag PP40 (or at least >the RS232 comms card)? No but I can pull the card from mine and let you reverse engineer it if you like. Joe >I bought a PP40 from an auction sans comms-card and STAGCOM software. At the >moment it's only really useful as an EPROM copier, but I'd like to change >that (it appears to be capable of programming a few devices that my PrEPROM >can't handle). > >Later. >-- >Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, >philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, >http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI >... I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere! > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 29 15:36:20 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040728121435.008c0590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040729163620.00934e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:36 AM 7/29/04 +0100, you wrote: >> >I don't beleive those are still in production (and if they are, they're >> >not cheap new). And if I buy second-hand equipment, I expect to have to >> >repair it, and I would guess that service information is not (easily) >> >available. >> >> You're right, they're not still in production but they handle every >> EPROM, PAL and PROM that I'm interested in so what's wrong with them? The > >There is nothing wrong with equipment that's no longer in production (in >fact I think just about every instrument I use is discontinued), but you >can't _depeend_ on a supply of them. I've not seen these units in the UK, >for example. I'm surprised. They're very common here in the US and very popular. > >> >> >> your time than to reinvent the EPROM programmer for the 10,000th time? >> >> > >> >> >> >> >Care to suggest some??? >> >> >> >> Is this a trick question? I guess you don't get out much. Here's the >> >> short list: Cold beer, hot cars, hot women, sports, tv, movies, old >> >> computers, friends, traveling, pets, reading, family, tending my garden, >> >> taking care of my house, etc etc etc. >> > >> >I truely pity anyoe who regards drinking alcohol, women, sports, TV (at >> >least the TV we get over here), (watching) movies as being more >> >interesting than constructing anything. >> >> Well I know I'm a lot more selective about my TV and movies than the >> majority of people but are you trying to tell me that there's NOTHING worth >> watching on TV or movies? What do you have against women, beer and sports? > >I watch _very_ little TV, and wouldn't bother at all if I had to pay for >the license (as opposed to watching my parents' set). UK TV is pretty >darn awful.... Same here but we now get enough channels that you can USUALLY find something worth watching. The Discovery, Wings and History channels are actually coming out with some pretty good stuff. > >Nothing agaist women, except that hacking is generally a lot more fun >:-). Women can be "hacked" too :-) > >Don't like beer, in fact don't like alcohol much at all (apart from >cleaning disk heads :-)). > >You've met me. you know I'm not the athletic type. And I have absolutely >_no_ intersest in spectator sports (or watching overpaid idiots doing >anything for that matter). In fact the only thing I'd like less than >watching sport is participating in it! I enjoy some of the more technical sports including auto and airplane races (the Reno Air Races are lots of fun!). Some like the robot battles but I never cared for it. But there are some contests for home built robotic helicopters and the like that are pretty darned interesting. > > >I assume you think the chap who wrote 'The Voice of the Crystal' and >'Instruments of Amplification' was wasting his time. I've never heard of either one. His home-made valves >and transistors are, to be blunt, lousy. But he had a go, and that, I >think, was well worth doing. I intend trying some of his experiments >sometime too. Maybe I'll learn something... I have nothing against building something like an inovative crystal radios (in fact, I'm working on one now) or vaccum tubes but I just don't see the point in building a common, readily available and cheap device like an EPROM programmer. I build that kind of thing when I was a kid and I just don't see that I'd get anything out of building another one. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 29 15:41:45 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <20040729022021.GB26710@bos7.spole.gov> References: <1091062508.3770.56.camel@dhcp-249041> <1091062508.3770.56.camel@dhcp-249041> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040729164145.0093a780@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:20 AM 7/29/04 +0000, Ethan wrote:ating sunlight. :-) > >I have a couple of "ultraviolet" LEDs with me, but I doubt they are the >right frequency to erase EPROMs. If they're the high power UV LEDs then they should work. A friend of mine uses those to erase his EPROMs and the erase time is about the same as for a UV light. He puts the LED right down on top of the window so he gets nearly all of the UV energy into the part instead of scattering it everywhere. Joe From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jul 29 15:59:55 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: a classiccmp electronics project? Message-ID: <003901c475af$0023f6a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Ok, I don't know if this is possible, but it would be handy so I'll throw the idea out and see if the more electrically inclined have any ideas. My specific issue is the HP2100A, 2100S, and 21MX M/E/F systems. However, I suspect this problem is present in other machines... DEC, DG, etc. The loader roms and microcode roms (two different chips) for each system are pretty much impossible to find. I'd like to make copies of them both for myself to use in other systems I currently have, and also to have a set of spares around. In addition, I'd like to make copies for other classiccmp'ers who may have systems that want/need a particular firmware or loader rom option. Finally, there are some roms that people have posted images for online that I'd like to burn myself because I don't have those particular roms. Since the blank chips are nigh impossible to find anymore... is it possible to use something like a PIC chip on a small DIP carrier card, that could be plugged into an existing loader rom or microcode rom socket and function just like the "real thing" to the system? Would this be something terribly difficult to build? A cute twist on this.... extending the idea further.... Put a bunch of NVram or an EEprom on the little carrier card. In the NVram could be stored multiple ROM images. Then via a switch on the card (when the system is powered off of course), you could select if the chip was a mag tape loader rom, or a paper tape loader rom, etc. For the microcode roms you could switch between FFP and IOP for example. When you wanted to change the set of rom images in the DIP package, you just hook it up to a serial port and download to change the available sets on it. The WCS card for HP boxes comes close to this, but there's no battery backup, and you can't program it easily with a PC. WCS cards probably aren't terribly easy to find anyways. Is this a pipedream? It would allow DEC'ies to have more loader roms they dont currently have by exchanging images via the net, etc. Not just an HP thing - but I realize it would have to be a different design electrically to work on the other machines. I'm thinking of a universal rom with different electrical interfaces on the carriers perhaps? Everyone talks about preserving ROM/PROM contents. But if the blank roms are unobtainium, we need to take the next step. Any thoughts? Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jul 29 16:12:54 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: a classiccmp electronics project? References: <003901c475af$0023f6a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <003f01c475b0$d07f15e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I had written... > The loader roms and microcode roms (two different chips) for each system are > pretty much impossible to find. In case it wasn't obvious... I was saying the BLANK loader rom chips and BLANK microcode rom chips were impossible to find. Blanks are necessary to burn copies :) Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From coredump at gifford.co.uk Thu Jul 29 17:01:58 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: a classiccmp electronics project? In-Reply-To: <003901c475af$0023f6a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <003901c475af$0023f6a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <410973D6.3030700@gifford.co.uk> Jay West wrote: > Since the blank chips are nigh impossible to find anymore... is it possible > to use something like a PIC chip on a small DIP carrier card, that could be > plugged into an existing loader rom or microcode rom socket and function > just like the "real thing" to the system? You wouldn't use a PIC chip for something like this. A PIC would be used in a microcontroller-type application, where program-controlled behaviour is required. To replace a ROM, we could simply use another ROM (or PROM, EPROM, EEPROM, Flash ROM, etc.) with a pinout adaptor. People are already doing this for PROMs in mobile radios. These PROMs are in fact the same chips as one finds in a PDP-11 for booting (M9312) and for storing the 8008 firmware in an 11/34 console card. The PROMs in question are 82S131, 74S571 or Am27S13 types (512x8). I have some blanks here to fix a console card, as it happens. Scroll down here: http://www.open.org/~blenderm/syntorx/legacy.html to the section headed "EPROM Conversion" to read about the PROM replacements for Syntor radios. And see this page: http://www.open.org/~blenderm/syntorx/legacyeprom.html for photos of a completed adaptor. Do you know the chip numbers and/or specs for the ROMs you wish to emulate? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Jul 29 17:02:46 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: a classiccmp electronics project? In-Reply-To: <410973D6.3030700@gifford.co.uk> References: <003901c475af$0023f6a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <410973D6.3030700@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <200407292216.SAA17334@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Do you know the chip numbers and/or specs for the ROMs you wish to > emulate? Personally, I'd like to have something with a ROM interface on one side (and probably EEPROM onboard), with a serial interface so the contents can be changed, preferably live. I built such a thing once on a breadboard; I wired it in in place of the character-generator ROM of an ascii terminal (a TVI955). The wiring was not up to the frequencies required, but fortunately, it being just the character generator, all that happened was snow on the screen. But it _was_ cool to be able to download new character glyphs live. :-) The devices I'd most want to do this with at the moment are 27256s. I suppose I should just build/buy a conventional EPROM programmer; 27256s (and even 28256s) are not all that scarce last I looked. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jul 29 17:25:15 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: PDP-11/04 issues Message-ID: <4109794B.9060402@mdrconsult.com> I have a new-to-me 11/04 in the kitchen, and I'm having some very odd problems with it. Slot 1 - M7263 11/04 CPU Slot 2 - empty Slot 3, AB - M9301-YA Slot 3, c-F M7859 KY11-LB Console interface Slot 4, C-F M7856 SLU, switched for 9600bps, 8N1, 20mA C.L. console Slot 5-6 - G657/H228-B 64KW core assy. Slot 7-9, D - G727 grant continuity modules Slot 9, AB - M9302 Terminator In the "book" configuration, as above, it boots to zeroes on the console LEDs with the RUN light and SR DISP lit. I can CLR the SR DISP, but the only other response I get with the panel is by halting it (CNTRL-HALT), which lights the BUS ERR light. On the other hand, if I remove the M9302, the system powers up to 000002. I can load and examine addresses from the console, deposit code, etc. CNTRL-HALT increments the counter, and CTRL-BOOT brings up the console emulator on the VT220. I can run L, E, D, and presumably S commands from the console emulator. Since I don't have any mass storage on it yet, that's as far as I've gone. Last, if I replace the M7263 with an M7266 and M7265 in slots 1 and 2 respectively, All the above applies excpt there's no terminal output. There's something decidedly un-kosher there, and I'm not catching on. It doesn't help that the processor handbook I have assumes MOS memory and contradicts everything I can find on Teh Inturnet about board placement. (It says something about CC that I'll try configurations I've seen twice in the archives over DEC's own literature.) So, the questions: Is there a simple program (or set of) I can key in to test operation? I'm no programmer, so you'd need to tell me the expected result, too. Is this correct behavior? Running without a terminator seems very wrong. (I've tried replacing the G727 cards with G7273 NPG cards, BTW) I keep seeing references to the DIP switch settings on the M9301 board, but I can't find a reference to tell me how they should be set. Are we having fun yet? ;-) Yes, this is my two weeks at home between travels, my wife is visiting her mom in New England, and I'm catching up on Geek Time. There are 3 PDP-11s, a new-to-me IBM 9348-012 9-track tabletop, several terminals, laptops, and monitors, and an Amiga A3000 in the dining room right now. *I'm* having fun. Doc From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jul 29 17:24:40 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: a classiccmp electronics project? References: <003901c475af$0023f6a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <410973D6.3030700@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <000b01c475ba$d6f89a40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> John wrote... > You wouldn't use a PIC chip for something like this. A PIC would be > used in a microcontroller-type application, where program-controlled > behaviour is required. A pic wouldn't be needed just to replace the rom... but I think it would be a good choice to implement the RS232 interface and logic to download new code to the NVRAM or EEPROM, when the contents were being changed. Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Thu Jul 29 18:04:03 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: Cirris 1000 Message-ID: > Holy moley! Speaking of word usage, I sure hope there's nobody from > Wales on this list. Why should we be offended? Just 'cos Joe can't spell? 8^)= Lee. >> Jim, >> >> Yes I still have it. The winnng bidder welshed out and >> never paid for it. BTW note my address above. The address >> that you sent the message to is for a mailing list. >> >> Joe ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Jul 29 18:04:39 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040729163620.00934e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040728121435.008c0590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040729163620.00934e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: In message <3.0.6.32.20040729163620.00934e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> "Joe R." wrote: > >There is nothing wrong with equipment that's no longer in production (in > >fact I think just about every instrument I use is discontinued), but you > >can't _depeend_ on a supply of them. I've not seen these units in the UK, > >for example. > > I'm surprised. They're very common here in the US and very popular. Apparently the ELNEC programmers are very popular in mainland Europe. I'm guessing the fact that they're "Made in Slovakia" has something to do with that. Yes I did flip my Preprom over to find that out... It works, it was cheap, what more could you want? ?165.09 according to the invoice, with a 3-year warranty. It's heavy considering its size - I guess the case is pretty thick. I think BK Precision rebadge some of the ELNEC programmers - they seem to use the same software (PG4U). The only reason I actually *bought* an EPROM programmer was because I had no end of trouble getting my DIY programmer working. After three weeks playing with the hardware and the firmware, I gave up and bought the Preprom. At least it wasn't as expensive as the programmers Farnell were selling at the time (Micromaster, Dataman48, Dataman S4, GALEP4, ...) > >I watch _very_ little TV, and wouldn't bother at all if I had to pay for > >the license (as opposed to watching my parents' set). UK TV is pretty > >darn awful.... > > Same here but we now get enough channels that you can USUALLY find > something worth watching. The Discovery, Wings and History channels are > actually coming out with some pretty good stuff. Stuck with the normal BBC and ITV channels here. ?40 a month is a bit excessive for what basically amounts to kids channels and imported American crap. About the only channels I ever watched regularly were the Discovery channels (and occasionally National Geographic). Then again, there's always the Internet and friends with video recorders. > I have nothing against building something like an inovative crystal > radios (in fact, I'm working on one now) or vaccum tubes but I just don't > see the point in building a common, readily available and cheap device like > an EPROM programmer. I build that kind of thing when I was a kid and I just > don't see that I'd get anything out of building another one. So far, I reckon I've reinvented the wheel at least a dozen times. I've built an "Acoustic Probe" from an EPE article, a 198kHz frequency standard to calibrate my frequency counter and oscilloscope (EPE again) and my homebrew 6502 system. As far as the 6502 system is concerned, I've built: - 1x 6502 CPU / RAM / ROM card. 32kbyte RAM, 16kbyte ROM. - 1x RS232 interface with 16C550 UART. Perfect for hooking up to a terminal. What could be more fun than playing with EhBASIC (one of Lee Davison's creations, a 6502 BASIC interpreter) on a rainy Sunday afternoon, playing the original version of "Star Trek"? Actually, that's not a bad idea... - 1x Eurocard (DIN41612 Form C, 64W) backplane with ATX power connector. After building that, I never want to see a sheet of Press-n-Peel again. Ever. I spent four hours cutting short-circuits with an Xacto and repairing broken tracks with bits of wiring-pencil wire. Never again. Next on the list: - IDE hard drive interface - 80MB.. *drool* - 40x24 video (Teletext) and I2C - 6502 bus -> HP analyser interface. Perfect for spying on a misbehaving computer. I would buy an ICE, but I'm a cheapskate (and none of the commercially available ICEs seem to support the WDC opcodes). Of course, this is well off topic since my 6502 computer's oldest component is the CPU.. which carries a 1999 datecode... [fx: flameproof clothing ON] Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Hard work never killed anyone but why take a risk? From jismay at unixboxen.net Thu Jul 29 18:41:36 2004 From: jismay at unixboxen.net (J Brian Ismay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: Commodore Pet ROM trouble... EPROM Substitutes... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200407292359.i6TNxCbY041185@huey.classiccmp.org> >> That's called a 'Light Emitting EPROM' and it's an expensive and >> short-lived alternative to an LED. >Is this related to things like the SER (Smoke Emiting Resistor -- one >where the power rating is massivle exceeded), SEC (Sound Emitinf Capacitor >-- an electrolytic wired backwards), the Friode (a diode that's >open-circuit both ways), etc? Sounds like what Lucas Electric used to use. http://pw1.netcom.com/~krk/lotus/humor/lucasjokes.html -- J Brian Ismay jismay@unixboxen.net From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Jul 29 19:02:30 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: a classiccmp electronics project? Message-ID: <200407300002.RAA23399@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Jay Al and another fellow at Monday pizza talked about this. One could setup using one of the high speed CMOS cache chips, pic ( or processor of your liking ) and an EPROM. One can hold the reset signal until you'd transfered the image to the CMOS ( it would have space for just about every combination ). One could even use a flash instead of an EPROM and then add a serial port to download. Most of the fused ROM's used in the original were in the 50 to 60 ns range. Most 8Kx8 cache RAM's are in the 20 to 30 ns range. It sure sounds like a project that can be done. Dwight >From: "Jay West" > >Ok, I don't know if this is possible, but it would be handy so I'll throw >the idea out and see if the more electrically inclined have any ideas. > >My specific issue is the HP2100A, 2100S, and 21MX M/E/F systems. However, I >suspect this problem is present in other machines... DEC, DG, etc. > >The loader roms and microcode roms (two different chips) for each system are >pretty much impossible to find. I'd like to make copies of them both for >myself to use in other systems I currently have, and also to have a set of >spares around. In addition, I'd like to make copies for other classiccmp'ers >who may have systems that want/need a particular firmware or loader rom >option. Finally, there are some roms that people have posted images for >online that I'd like to burn myself because I don't have those particular >roms. > >Since the blank chips are nigh impossible to find anymore... is it possible >to use something like a PIC chip on a small DIP carrier card, that could be >plugged into an existing loader rom or microcode rom socket and function >just like the "real thing" to the system? Would this be something terribly >difficult to build? A cute twist on this.... extending the idea further.... >Put a bunch of NVram or an EEprom on the little carrier card. In the NVram >could be stored multiple ROM images. Then via a switch on the card (when the >system is powered off of course), you could select if the chip was a mag >tape loader rom, or a paper tape loader rom, etc. For the microcode roms you >could switch between FFP and IOP for example. When you wanted to change the >set of rom images in the DIP package, you just hook it up to a serial port >and download to change the available sets on it. > >The WCS card for HP boxes comes close to this, but there's no battery >backup, and you can't program it easily with a PC. WCS cards probably aren't >terribly easy to find anyways. > >Is this a pipedream? It would allow DEC'ies to have more loader roms they >dont currently have by exchanging images via the net, etc. Not just an HP >thing - but I realize it would have to be a different design electrically to >work on the other machines. I'm thinking of a universal rom with different >electrical interfaces on the carriers perhaps? > >Everyone talks about preserving ROM/PROM contents. But if the blank roms are >unobtainium, we need to take the next step. > >Any thoughts? > >Jay West > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Jul 29 19:05:15 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: a classiccmp electronics project? Message-ID: <200407300005.RAA23422@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "John Honniball" > >Jay West wrote: >> Since the blank chips are nigh impossible to find anymore... is it possible >> to use something like a PIC chip on a small DIP carrier card, that could be >> plugged into an existing loader rom or microcode rom socket and function >> just like the "real thing" to the system? > >You wouldn't use a PIC chip for something like this. A PIC would be >used in a microcontroller-type application, where program-controlled >behaviour is required. To replace a ROM, we could simply use another >ROM (or PROM, EPROM, EEPROM, Flash ROM, etc.) with a pinout adaptor. > >People are already doing this for PROMs in mobile radios. These PROMs >are in fact the same chips as one finds in a PDP-11 for booting (M9312) >and for storing the 8008 firmware in an 11/34 console card. The >PROMs in question are 82S131, 74S571 or Am27S13 types (512x8). I have >some blanks here to fix a console card, as it happens. > >Scroll down here: > > http://www.open.org/~blenderm/syntorx/legacy.html > >to the section headed "EPROM Conversion" to read about the PROM >replacements for Syntor radios. And see this page: > > http://www.open.org/~blenderm/syntorx/legacyeprom.html > >for photos of a completed adaptor. > >Do you know the chip numbers and/or specs for the ROMs you wish to >emulate? > >-- >John Honniball >coredump@gifford.co.uk > Hi John Most of the applications Jay is talking about require faster than 100ns someplace. Most EPROMs just are not in that range. Dwight From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 29 18:08:08 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <410892CF.2030607@jetnet.ab.ca> from "ben franchuk" at Jul 29, 4 00:01:51 am Message-ID: > > Tony Duell wrote: > >>BTW how often can you find micro code source listings from the old computers > >>anyhow? > > Often enough. Or you can always disassemble the microcode yourself. > > Real He-men ( and women ) use logic gates. :) Care to explain the difference between a (microcode) ROM and an AND tree with the outputs ORed together :-) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 29 18:18:52 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? In-Reply-To: <4108A8BA.9090404@citem.org> from "Hans B PUFAL" at Jul 29, 4 09:35:22 am Message-ID: > I assume Sellam means a device which will present the time and possible > date maintained independently of the CPU. There I would agree I we are > into the mini era if not the micro.... There was an add on RTC clock > card for the PDP-11 (but Sellam specified "built-in" ;-) If it does not I don't rememebr a clock card for the '11 -- there were line-time and programmable interrupt cards that gave a periodic 'heatbeat', and that's what DEC normally regarded as a real time clock... Looking back through my manuals, I've found a couple of somewhat interesting ones : There was one of the P851 (1978-ish) that was a battery-backed digital clock card (which either counted up to 100 days or 10000 hours in 1s increments). You could even hang an LED display off it if you wanted a human-readable clock in your machien room. I have schematics, but alas not the card (I do have a P851...) There was a real-time clock model (98035) for the HP9825 'calculator' (really a computer!). It actually contained 2 clocks. When the machine was powered up, it used an internal microcontroller clocked at a known rate. When the machine was powered down, there was a battery-backed chip (looks to be a repackaged chip from a digital watch) that kept the time, and which was read by the microocontroller at power-up (the interface to this chip was strange -- a couple of lines corresponding the the 'buttons' on an LED watch, 3 digit stobes, and the 8 lines for a 7 segment display (7 segments + annunciators for things like the leading '1' on a 12 hour/US date display, that's how they got away with only 3 digit lines). Almost certainly not the first RTCs on computers, though. If you go back to data loggers, the Solartron DTU (1960's vintage) has a clock card. This was a rack of mostly DTL logic that connected to a DVM or DFM and to an output device like a Facit 4070 punch or an ASR33 teletype. Even so often (the rate could be set using a switch on the clock card, or it could respond to an external contact-closure input), it would scan up to 20 channels (using relays in the DTU), connect each one to the input of the DVM, and record the result on the output device, along with the time. Thsi unit was sort-of a forerunner of lab minicomputers, in that it let you take results automatically and feed them (via paper tape or punched cards) into a mini or mainframe computer I also have a much later Fluke logger, controller by a pair of 4040s. It has a real time clock built in (periodic interrupt to the main processor IIRC) which goes up to 1000 days in second increments. Several of the early RTCs keep time in hours/minutes/seconds as you'd expect, but ject count days up from 0-99 or 0-999 or whatever. This gets round the stupid features of the calendar (and incidentally avoided the Y2K bug :-)) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 29 18:47:35 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? In-Reply-To: <20040729163725.BCWB2991.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> from "Dave Dunfield" at Jul 29, 4 12:37:26 pm Message-ID: > > >Hmm. Interesting. That's early 1980s, if not late 1970s, correct? > > I have installed in my Altair, a Compu/Time CT-102 real-time-clock > board which was purchased in 1979. This board supports a battery > backup option. > > This is basically a "digital clock" chip with BCD outputs (intended to > drive BCD to 7-segment decoders) on an S-100 board. The fact that it > is a chip intended for a clock display gives rise to certain odd > characteristics: The chip used in the HP 98035 (RTC module for the 9825) is even worse. It's got 7 segment outputs... IIRC, one of them (d segment?) isn't used, since you can distiguish the digits without it.The HP microocontroller has to grab the other lines when each digit strobe becomes active and turn them back into BCD values. Fortunately this is done in the module, you just send/receive ASCII-encoded strings to it. > - To set the time, the software has to "hold down" Fast and Slow time > set buttons, and watch the time value scroll by until the desired > setting is reached - just the way a human would set a digital clock > from that era. YEs, that's done in the 98035 too. In fact it's just like a digital watch with one button to select hours/minutes, and a second press for secondes, and one button for setting (or something like that). Quite fun to watch the signals when it's 'writing' the time to the battery-backed clock chip. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 29 18:50:48 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? In-Reply-To: <002c01c4759a$6bdf5bb0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> from "Antonio Carlini" at Jul 29, 4 07:32:21 pm Message-ID: > The 1973 pdp-11 processor handbook indicates that > the PDP-11/05 and PDP-11/10 had a line frequency > clock and the PDP-11/35 and PDP-11/40 are > pre-wired to accept a KW11-I. So they could > track the passage of time, but not while the > power was off. > > I doubt that any PDP-8 came with any such option Line time interupts certainly existed for the PDP8/e, but that's about the same vintage. There was also one for the P850, which is a couple of years earlier (1970, I think). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 29 18:35:28 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:36 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <20040729100612.XLYW3702.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> from "Dave Dunfield" at Jul 29, 4 06:06:13 am Message-ID: > > >> Parts might be a bit hard to find now - uses a 6809 CPU, 6821 PIA, a 6551 > >> UART, a few 6264 SRAM's, a handful of latches and 3-4 relays to move the > > >And thereing lies the problem. Presumably you need to program an EPROM > >with the firmware for this 6809. Which is somewhat hard without a > >programmer :-)... > > For some perhaps - at the time, myself, and almost everyone I knew worked > for companies with programmers, so it was not a problem. You could also get You were lucky. I was a student at the time, and in fact I built the program over an Easter vacation one year. I didn't have access to a programmer -- that's why i needed to build one. > EPROM programmed at the local shop for a small fee. I also had a bytesaver There were mail-order companies who would do this in the UK, but they charged qyite a bit for doing it (especially if they had to type in a listing). At the time I didn't have a machine that wrote any form of 'standard' floppy disks (i.e. I didn't have an IBM PC). Unless your programming skills are perfect (and mine are not), this gets boring fast when you have to wait a few days for each update. In fact the time taken to erase and reporgram an EPROM yourself soon becomes painful, that's why I included an emulator in my programmer. > in my Altair, so I could have bootstrapped up from a 2708 if I'd had to. > > I didn't program the actual firmware right away - I made a EPROM (at work) > with my 6809 monitor program in it, which allowed me to download code into Right... Again this assumes your monitor is debugged. Incidentally, I've built a couple of instruments with microprocessors (as opossed to microcontrollers) controlling them (actually I normally used the 6809 -- nice chip), and I included commands to read/write/execute from any location in mmeory. Sure helped debugging !. > the RAM (normally all used as a data buffer), where I tested and debugged > the actual firmware - When I was happy that everything was working correctly, > I use the RAM download to program a real EPROM (almost self-booting). Neat. > > If I were doing the same project today, and had absolutely no access to any > means of programming the initial EPROM, I would first post in the local groups These days I'd either use a PIC as the controller processor (trivial to make a programmer for, and the programming algorithms are documented), or if I was using some deviec with external program memory, I'd start off using E2PROM or something, again easy to make a programmer for. I now have access to rather more computers, with rather more user I/O lines... > to see if anyone near me has a programmer, failing that, I would perhaps try This was long before the days of the Internet in the UK. It wasn't easy to find places to ask about borrowing a programmer. > this list or other more widespread resources - I'm sure that someone somewhere > would be willing to program my monitor (or even a very simple loader would These days it's easy. I have a dozen programmers, and could build another one in an afternoon without even thinking about it. And there are people on this list who'd burn an EPROM from an Intel-hex file e-mailed to them. This was not the case 18 years ago. > suffice) into that first EPROM for me. All you need is the ability to get code > into the device, and you can run from there. > > I guess what I am saying, is that if you are not prepared to be a little > creative, you are probably not well suited to designing/building your own > test equipment. Are you saying I'm not creative? Heck, I got round the problems and built a working programmer. I guess I should tell you how I verified the program pulse width without an accurate counter. I used a TTL monostable to generate the 50ms pulse, you see. I connected the input to a known clock frequency (about 5Hz IIRC), divided down from an Xtal. The output went to a buffer which I'd measured the output voltages (high and low) for under static conditions. When the whole lot was patched together, I measured the average output voltage using an analogue meter. From that I could calculate the mark/space ratio. And thus the pulse width (knowing the repition frequency). Worked well enough to program quite a few EPROMs... > > > > >I built my first EPROM programmer about 18 years ago. Programs > >2716-27128, using the 'slow' algorithm. It doesn't even handle 12.5V > >parts (I should add that feature!). 3 hand-wired boards of mostly TTL, > >with a 40 pin AY-3-1015 UART in the middle. Oh yes, it's an EPROM > >emulator as well, for the same types of EPROMs. > > On my original programmer (the homebuilt one), the programming voltage > was selected by a physical switch - which selected 12.5, 21 or 25v from Mine too. I just had a 2 position switch to select between 25V and 21V for 2732s. 2716s always wer e25V, 2764s and 27128s were 21V. I should sometime add a 12.5V regulator and use the other pole of the switch to select between 21V and 12.5V for the 2764/27128 devices. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 29 19:04:22 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040729163620.00934e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at Jul 29, 4 04:36:20 pm Message-ID: > >> Well I know I'm a lot more selective about my TV and movies than the > >> majority of people but are you trying to tell me that there's NOTHING worth > >> watching on TV or movies? What do you have against women, beer and sports? > > > >I watch _very_ little TV, and wouldn't bother at all if I had to pay for > >the license (as opposed to watching my parents' set). UK TV is pretty > >darn awful.... > > Same here but we now get enough channels that you can USUALLY find > something worth watching. The Discovery, Wings and History channels are Very different in the UK. Most of the stuff on the standard 5 channels is terrible, and from what I've seen, the digital/satellite/cable channels aren't much better. Serously, I'd much rather be using a soldering iron... > actually coming out with some pretty good stuff. > >I assume you think the chap who wrote 'The Voice of the Crystal' and > >'Instruments of Amplification' was wasting his time. > > I've never heard of either one. They're actually quite interesting books. 'The Voice of the Crystal' is about making crystal radios using _no_ commercial electronic components at all. He makes his own coils (trivial), detector (using a similar design to the ones made 100 years ago), variable capacitor (suprisinging hard to make, acually), headphones (both magnetic and crystal, the latter using the peizo-electric element from a cigarette lighter), etc. 'Instruments of Amplification', IMHO is the more interesting book. He describes how to homebrew amplifying devices (not the circuits, which any of us could make). The 'microphonic relay' (electromagnets coupled to a carbon microphone-like thing), diode and triode valves (using filaments taken from light bulbs, in case you're wondering), transisotrs (point-contact ones using the crystal from a germanium diode, copper oxide ones made the hard way), and so on. Now, to be honext, the devices are terrible. If you want a triode to use, go and buy am ECC83 / 12AX7. If you want a tranistor, go and get a 2N3904. It'll work a lot better, last a lot longer (his first home-made valves had filament lifetimes of a few minutes, his transistors broke down at a few volts), and be a lot cheaper. But IMHO you'll lear a lot if you read said books, and even more if you try to repeat and improve on the designs. > an EPROM programmer. I build that kind of thing when I was a kid and I just > don't see that I'd get anything out of building another one. There's probably little point if you've already built at least one programmer, or a similar insturment of similar complexity. But if you haven't, then you should have a go. As I aid, you'll learn a lot, not just about EPROMs... I think the best way to sum it up is to quote from a book written nearly 100 years ago called 'Every Boy His Own Mechanic'. This chapter covers making a simple telephone system " For some years previous to 1914 the constructive instinct and ability inherent in many of us was almost snuffed out because most of the mechanical and electrical things we wished to possess were so cheap that they could be bought ready made. Often the prices quoted were actually below the cost to us of the raw materials, and so we came to think that constructive hobbies were a bit futile. Lots of those cheap things were amazingly good, but some where exasperatingly bad, and the bulk indifferent. Still, we bought the stuff, learned nothing from it, and clean missed all the solid satisfaction that lives for ever in building and contriving and creating Take the ready-made cheap telephone, for instance. How long did it take to get fed up with ringing and asking "are you there ?" Was it really worth the outlay of 15s to 45s? Frankly, no. Why? Because our purchase locked us out from all the subtle mysteries of an ever-wonderful instrument (simple though it may be), and we had been robbed of all the joy of its making. If it failed to act we discovered that we could not put it right. If it acted perfectly, we took the whole thing for granted and soon became bored. But to build up that same installation oneself in the face of difficulties from the homeliest of raw materials, and at last to have it (in litteral fact) voicing our triumph in our eager-listening ears - ah, that is a very different matter! " And that's why I still homebrew stuff.... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 29 18:40:40 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Jul 29, 4 04:51:04 am Message-ID: > > On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Wayne Smith wrote: > > > HP-75C had one built in. > > Hmm. Interesting. That's early 1980s, if not late 1970s, correct? Early 1980s 1982 I think, but the Museum of HP calcultors would tell you for sure. The HP41CX does too (and the timer module for the older HP41s includes the same clock chip, codenamed Phineas IIRC). I think the HP75 clock (like the clock in the HP71, and the one for the 41 series) is just an up-counter that counts pulses from a crystal and relies on software to turn it into time/date. Of course the Sharp PC1500 and Tandy M100 also have built-in real-time clocks (actual hardware chips that are read out in software). I remember clock cards for the Apple ][ (in fact I know I have one somwhere, it's got a NiCd PP3 battery stuck to it...) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 29 19:08:50 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: a classiccmp electronics project? In-Reply-To: <003901c475af$0023f6a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at Jul 29, 4 03:59:55 pm Message-ID: > > Ok, I don't know if this is possible, but it would be handy so I'll throw > the idea out and see if the more electrically inclined have any ideas. > > My specific issue is the HP2100A, 2100S, and 21MX M/E/F systems. However, I > suspect this problem is present in other machines... DEC, DG, etc. > > The loader roms and microcode roms (two different chips) for each system are > pretty much impossible to find. I'd like to make copies of them both for > myself to use in other systems I currently have, and also to have a set of > spares around. In addition, I'd like to make copies for other classiccmp'ers > who may have systems that want/need a particular firmware or loader rom > option. Finally, there are some roms that people have posted images for > online that I'd like to burn myself because I don't have those particular > roms. > > Since the blank chips are nigh impossible to find anymore... is it possible > to use something like a PIC chip on a small DIP carrier card, that could be I would doubt it. Those old fusible-link PROMs were actually quite fast with access times of <50ns in many cases. And the designs depended on it. I've ben looking at the HP98x0 calculator processor with a view to designing a diagnostic PCB for it. It became pretty obvious that the microcode PROMs could not be replaced, for example, with most common EPROMs suitably wired -- they were just too slow. Using a microcontroller to simulate a PROM is going to be even slower, I would think. Bootstrap ROMs -- that is to say ones that are mapped into the normal memory space, as opposed to microcode PROMs which are used to control the CPU, could generally be slower, and you might get away with EPROMs here. In which case you could use, say, a 32K EPROM to store 128 256 byte images and use a 7 position DIP switch (connected to the high 78 address lines of the EPORM) to select between them. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 29 19:14:12 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: PDP-11/04 issues In-Reply-To: <4109794B.9060402@mdrconsult.com> from "Doc Shipley" at Jul 29, 4 05:25:15 pm Message-ID: > > I have a new-to-me 11/04 in the kitchen, and I'm having some very odd > problems with it. > > Slot 1 - M7263 11/04 CPU > Slot 2 - empty > Slot 3, AB - M9301-YA > Slot 3, c-F M7859 KY11-LB Console interface > Slot 4, C-F M7856 SLU, switched for 9600bps, 8N1, 20mA C.L. console > Slot 5-6 - G657/H228-B 64KW core assy. > Slot 7-9, D - G727 grant continuity modules > Slot 9, AB - M9302 Terminator > > In the "book" configuration, as above, it boots to zeroes on the > console LEDs with the RUN light and SR DISP lit. I can CLR the SR DISP, > but the only other response I get with the panel is by halting it > (CNTRL-HALT), which lights the BUS ERR light. > > On the other hand, if I remove the M9302, the system powers up to > 000002. I can load and examine addresses from the console, deposit These are the clssic symptoms of an open-circuit grant chain (either BG or NPG), or a fault in that area of the logic (maybe on one of the cards). If a grant gets to the M9302, than that card asserts SACK to unlock the bus. At which point the processor (or more precisely the arbitor, but it's part of the processor board) attempts to remove the grant and everything goes back to normal. The problem comes if the grant didn't come from the arbitor in the first place (either due to a floating signal to the terminator from an open-circuit grant chain, or from defective logic on one of the boards) -- the arbitor can't remove the grant, and the bus locks with SACK asserted. I would start by checking the grant chain carefully, then seeing just what the signasl at the terminator are doing, and then see what could be causing whichever one to be asserted. -tony From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jul 29 19:30:47 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? In-Reply-To: <16649.1445.505920.651205@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: > On the other hand, if the definition is a device that allows the > computer to keep time while it is powered on -- which is all that you > can deduce from the 650 example you quoted -- then certainly it goes > as far back as the CDC 6600 (1964) and probably a lot further. Then > again, that's after the IBM 650. It would not suprise me if some of the unit record equipment had RTCs. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Thu Jul 29 19:59:32 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: 8" floppy project Message-ID: > So what happens if you try to do disk access while displaying > animations? The animations get displayed, the disk gets accessed. There's enough performance available to handle four disks and the display simultaneously. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jul 29 19:54:58 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: a classiccmp electronics project? References: Message-ID: <003c01c475cf$d6cff710$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Tony wrote... > I would doubt it. Those old fusible-link PROMs were actually quite fast > with access times of <50ns in many cases. And the designs depended on it. Surely that's easy to get around. Upon power up - or when a reset button is pushed, the device reads the image from EEprom and places it into SRAM, which is what is actually accessed. Isn't SRAM fast enough? Jay West From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Thu Jul 29 20:13:47 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer Message-ID: >>I have a couple of "ultraviolet" LEDs with me, but I doubt they are the >>right frequency to erase EPROMs. > If they're the high power UV LEDs then they should work. A friend of > mine uses those to erase his EPROMs and the erase time is about the same > as for a UV light. There are not yet available UV LEDs that radiate at short enough wavelength to erase EPROMs in a reasonable time. Most EPROMs will start to erase at <400nm but take hours of exposure, to erase an EPROM in 20 mins or so needs 12mW/cm^2 of 257nm light on the die face. The longer wavelengths just warm the chip up a bit. This is why UV tubes for photo resist and similar won't erase EPROMs either, they output nearer 400nm which is where state of the art UV LEDs are at. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Jul 29 20:14:41 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: a classiccmp electronics project? Message-ID: <200407300114.SAA23459@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jay West" > >Tony wrote... >> I would doubt it. Those old fusible-link PROMs were actually quite fast >> with access times of <50ns in many cases. And the designs depended on it. >Surely that's easy to get around. Upon power up - or when a reset button is >pushed, the device reads the image from EEprom and places it into SRAM, >which is what is actually accessed. Isn't SRAM fast enough? > >Jay West > > Hi Jay Yes, those CMOS RAM's used for cache that were in the narrow packages were quite fast enough. As I stated in a previous post. Dwight From dave04a at dunfield.com Thu Jul 29 20:32:20 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? Message-ID: <20040730013219.JQCD2991.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> >> This is basically a "digital clock" chip with BCD outputs (intended to >> drive BCD to 7-segment decoders) on an S-100 board. The fact that it >> is a chip intended for a clock display gives rise to certain odd >> characteristics: > >The chip used in the HP 98035 (RTC module for the 9825) is even worse. >It's got 7 segment outputs... Egad! - that is definately "worse". >> - To set the time, the software has to "hold down" Fast and Slow time >> set buttons, and watch the time value scroll by until the desired >> setting is reached - just the way a human would set a digital clock >> from that era. > >YEs, that's done in the 98035 too. In fact it's just like a digital watch >with one button to select hours/minutes, and a second press for secondes, >and one button for setting (or something like that). Quite fun to watch >the signals when it's 'writing' the time to the battery-backed clock chip. This was the older fast/slow set style - the kind that used to drive me craze in clocks - you hold down "fast" and the digits count like crazy (minites and hours), you switch to "slow" when you get close. It was really annoying if you overshot, because you had to "go round" again. When I first started writing the software to set the clock, I assumed that the computer would be plenty fast to simply watch the time in "fast" mode and stop "right on the button" - I quickly found out that the display refresh in the clock chip didn't keep up with the "fast" counter, and sometimes (rather often) it would "miss" a digit, going for example directly from '1' to '3' --- So I had to implement detection when it got "close" and switching to "slow". Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From dave04a at dunfield.com Thu Jul 29 20:32:25 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer Message-ID: <20040730013222.JQCO2991.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> >> >And thereing lies the problem. Presumably you need to program an EPROM >> >with the firmware for this 6809. Which is somewhat hard without a >> >programmer :-)... >> >> For some perhaps - at the time, myself, and almost everyone I knew worked >> for companies with programmers, so it was not a problem. You could also get > >You were lucky. I was a student at the time, and in fact I built the >program over an Easter vacation one year. I didn't have access to a >programmer -- that's why i needed to build one. Agreed with all your points that it may not have been possible - but I did learn many avenues to work around such problems - when I was a student, I "found" the only programmer in the place and got to know the guy who was in charge of it ... :-) My "not available" story: I was at my parents home over a long weekend when I finally got my wirewrapped 8080 system to the point where it could use a keyboard - as they lived in the country, there was no chance of scrounging one (I couldn't afford to BUY anything back then), so I decided to build one... Picture a flat piece of wood, at each key location is a metal thumbtack with a bit of fine wire (salvaged from a transformer) attached. Two spacers at each end allow another "board" to live about 1/4 inch above it. It had holes drilled over every key (thumbtack), and in each hole was a nail pointing up, going through a spring (springs came from an old contruction kit) into a hold drilled into a short piece of dowling which was the "keytop" - another bit of fine wire shoved into the hold beside the nail made the top contact. The contacts from the "keys" went to a rather large and unsightly mess of diodes (salvaged from an old Burroughs posting machine) and ultimately to a set of 8 transistors, which game 7-bit ASCII and a strobe. Took me most of the weekend to build the thing, and it actually worked! Although it was not the most pleasant thing to type on (rollover ... we don't need no steenking rollover :-) One of the few things from my very early digital experiences that I really wish I had saved... [It was replaced within a couple of months with a real keyboard (scrounged) and remapped to ASCII with a 1702] >Unless your programming skills are perfect (and mine are not), this gets >boring fast when you have to wait a few days for each update. In fact the >time taken to erase and reporgram an EPROM yourself soon becomes painful, >that's why I included an emulator in my programmer. >... >> I didn't program the actual firmware right away - I made a EPROM (at work) >> with my 6809 monitor program in it, which allowed me to download code into > >Right... Again this assumes your monitor is debugged. In this case, it was - I did a *LOT* of 6809 code in those days, both privately and commercialy - I had my own debugger (still around essentually unchanged as the MON09 debugger I list on my site), and I designed my EPROM programmer to have the same serial port devices (6551), and RAM in the right place for the monitor to run (ROM was at E000 of course - 8k at top in 6809 map). Had I not had a debugged monitor, I would have written a very simple loader. Just enough to get a "real" loader into the machine - unless I really cocked it up, that would be all I needed, and I doubt I would have had to have the ROM made more than once (did similar things on many other projects). I selected the 6809 in the first place because I had recent experience with it and suitable tools available... >Incidentally, I've built a couple of instruments with microprocessors (as >opossed to microcontrollers) controlling them (actually I normally used >the 6809 -- nice chip), and I included commands to read/write/execute >from any location in mmeory. Sure helped debugging !. Yup - 6809 was an incredible chip - easy to multitask (and most people don't know what DP is for!) - I always include low level debugging features/commands, can be absolutely essential at times. >> If I were doing the same project today, and had absolutely no access to any >> means of programming the initial EPROM, I would first post in the local groups > >These days I'd either use a PIC as the controller processor (trivial to >make a programmer for, and the programming algorithms are documented), or >if I was using some deviec with external program memory, I'd start off >using E2PROM or something, again easy to make a programmer for. I now >have access to rather more computers, with rather more user I/O lines... Yeah, OK - I would use some little flash device too - I was speaking in terms of if I were faced with the same problem to build exactly the same type of device with similar parts ... >This was long before the days of the Internet in the UK. It wasn't easy to >find places to ask about borrowing a programmer. Not familier with UK companies etc. - this would have been somewhere in the mid 80's, and I was reasonably well past being a student ... but these are the kinds of things I would have tried had I still been in school: - Local companies that were "friendly" ... might involve having a friend who's dad worked there. - Local shops, schools etc. - BBS systems - lots of other "geeks" hung out there, many with good connections... fidonet was king before the internet. >> I guess what I am saying, is that if you are not prepared to be a little >> creative, you are probably not well suited to designing/building your own >> test equipment. > >Are you saying I'm not creative? NO! that was a general comment, and NOT directed to you specifically. - I know you are creative (from your postings), and you did solve the problem - no need to defend your honor any further. but.. especially in todays world (as you point out), having to get the "first" ROM programmed should not be a show stopper. Even that is only an issue if the OP decided to build my design "as is" - as discussed earlier in this message, a little flash device could be used and then all you need is a serial or parallel port to program it (depending on the requirements of the device). To me (primarily a software guy), using a little controller with lots of I/O and ability to time pulses far more accurately than winblows, it still makes sense to design a micro based device. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Jul 29 20:49:19 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: 8" floppy project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040730014919.GA19043@bos7.spole.gov> On Fri, Jul 30, 2004 at 01:59:32AM +0100, Davison, Lee wrote: > > So what happens if you try to do disk access while displaying > > animations? > > The animations get displayed, the disk gets accessed. There's enough > performance available to handle four disks and the display simultaneously. Yep... there's a detailed picture of the cycle interleave with various DMA events and processor accesses in the system documentation (probably the Hardware RKM, but I don't have it here to check). What happens in cases of heavy custom-chip access is that the processor gets starved for cycles, much like the processor is held off on Classic Mac designs anytime the video is being painted (giving a 8MHz Mac Plus an equivalent performance to a 5MHz chip). The difference is that with the Amiga, the only time this happens is a) when accessing CHIP RAM (as opposed to ROM or FAST RAM), and b) when using some of the higher resolutions and/or deeper bitplane modes (32 colors, HAM, etc.) When tooling around on the default workbench, the processor is running at full speed. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 30-Jul-2004 01:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -89.2 F (-67.3 C) Windchill -123.3 F (-86.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 7.2 kts Grid 085 Barometer 661.8 mb (11319 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Jul 29 20:51:17 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040730015117.GB19043@bos7.spole.gov> On Fri, Jul 30, 2004 at 02:13:47AM +0100, Davison, Lee wrote: > > >>I have a couple of "ultraviolet" LEDs with me, but I doubt they are the > >>right frequency to erase EPROMs. > > > If they're the high power UV LEDs then they should work. A friend of > > mine uses those to erase his EPROMs and the erase time is about the same > > as for a UV light. > > There are not yet available UV LEDs that radiate at short enough wavelength > to erase EPROMs in a reasonable time. Most EPROMs will start to erase at > <400nm but take hours of exposure, to erase an EPROM in 20 mins or so needs > 12mW/cm^2 of 257nm light on the die face. The longer wavelengths just warm > the chip up a bit. I will have to check, but IIRC, my LEDs are 450nm. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 30-Jul-2004 01:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -89.9 F (-67.7 C) Windchill -125.8 F (-87.7 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 7.9 kts Grid 084 Barometer 661.8 mb (11319 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jul 29 21:59:20 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer References: Message-ID: <4109B988.6050809@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: >>Real He-men ( and women ) use logic gates. :) > Care to explain the difference between a (microcode) ROM and an AND tree > with the outputs ORed together :-) Lots of tiny diodes to solder. :) > -tony All the cpu designs I have been doing have been random logic for the simple fact I don't have regular instruction set and no PROM burner. The minor problem of changing the design every few months does not help the matter. Also about 125 LS TTL chips for the Front Panel and CPU cards have left me stumped on the best way to design it. I would like to create several PCB's rather than wire wrap but I have yet to find good information on PCB layout guide lines and good **inexpensive** CAD software as well as small software tools. You know like 8192 *words* of memory on your basic machine. Ben. From vax3900 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 29 22:35:30 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 systems going... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040730033530.95612.qmail@web51804.mail.yahoo.com> --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Going... > > Anyone interested? where are they? > > Their pardon runs out tomorrow... > > PS/2 Model 50 > PS/2 Model 50Z > PS/2 Model 35 SX > > -- > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || > Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Thu Jul 29 22:31:51 2004 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: HP TSB (Time Share BASIC) Internals Manual References: <200407271645.JAA21201@clulw009.amd.com> <01bb01c47405$9e080240$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <006201c475e5$c40a5ab0$acaafea9@newhare> G'day Jay (and other HP TSB fanatics) - I have scanned and placed on the web an Internals Guide for HP T.S.B. that was written around 1969. It describes all of the core and disk structures used in these early systems plus has hand-written flow charts (!) for each command, the BASIC (semi-) compiler, runtime and decompiler. It is available at: http://www.simulogics.com/public/hp/HP_TSB_Internals_August-1969.pdf Yes, there is a story behind obtaining the manual: I received it - accidently - from HP as part of a graduate class project I was working on at the time and was supposed to return it to HP since it was never to have been sent to me (company confidential material you know). Hmmm, I guess I forgot to do that and was waiting for the 33+ year statute of limitations to run out... ;-) Have fun. And Al - please download for your HP archives at your convenience. Bruce Bruce Ray Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. bkr@WildHareComputers.com ...preserving the Data General legacy: www.NovasAreForever.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 29 23:07:03 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <20040730013222.JQCO2991.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> from "Dave Dunfield" at Jul 29, 4 09:32:25 pm Message-ID: > My "not available" story: I was at my parents home over a long weekend when I > finally got my wirewrapped 8080 system to the point where it could use a keyboard > - as they lived in the country, there was no chance of scrounging one (I couldn't > afford to BUY anything back then), so I decided to build one... Off-thread, but majorly on-topic for the list... A could of years before I built the programmer (this would be 1986 IIRC), I was designing my own computer (which I've still not finished, you know how these projects go on :-)). Anyway, I needed a keyboard, and I saw an advert for cheap encoded QWERTY keyboards in the back of a magazine. Since it was nearby I decided to investigate... I did buy a keyboard, I still have it. I also bought a Philips P850 minicomputer, my first TTL-built processor. That's the machine that got me into computer collecting/repair... Just think... Had I been able to buy a PC-clone keyboard for a few pounds in just about any computer shop, I may well have never found this hobby... > I selected the 6809 in the first place because I had recent experience with it > and suitable tools available... I used the 6809 becuase I could cross-develop code on my CoCo (running OS-9) which was by far the best development environment I had access to at the time... > > > >Incidentally, I've built a couple of instruments with microprocessors (as > >opossed to microcontrollers) controlling them (actually I normally used > >the 6809 -- nice chip), and I included commands to read/write/execute > >from any location in mmeory. Sure helped debugging !. > > Yup - 6809 was an incredible chip - easy to multitask (and most people don't > know what DP is for!) - I always include low level debugging features/commands, It was a wonderful device. A nice clean instruction set, good addressing modes (why no other 8 bit machine included PCR mode I do not know...), easy to program. > can be absolutely essential at times. > >This was long before the days of the Internet in the UK. It wasn't easy to > >find places to ask about borrowing a programmer. > > Not familier with UK companies etc. - this would have been somewhere in the > mid 80's, and I was reasonably well past being a student ... but these are About the same time, then. > the kinds of things I would have tried had I still been in school: > - Local companies that were "friendly" ... might involve having a friend > who's dad worked there. May have worked, altough I can't think of anyone who would have been able to get me access to a programmer (and then there was the issue of actually getting the data onto their machine, not many people could read OS-9 disks...) > - Local shops, schools etc. Would not have worked. UK schools at that time did not have EPROM programmers (I doubt they do now). Never saw a shop with one either. Maybe I could have found somebody who made pirate BBC micro ROMs (this seemed to be the common use for EPROM programemrs among the general public at that itme...) and asked them to burn me a chip, but... It was easier just to make a programmer. > but.. especially in todays world (as you point out), having to get the "first" > ROM programmed should not be a show stopper. Even that is only an issue if the These days it's a lot easier.... I am sure many people here have, or have access to, an EPROM programmer, and would program the odd chip if sent an image. And it's a lot easier to transfer said image now than it was 20 years ago... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 29 22:53:44 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: a classiccmp electronics project? In-Reply-To: <003c01c475cf$d6cff710$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> from "Jay West" at Jul 29, 4 07:54:58 pm Message-ID: > > Tony wrote... > > I would doubt it. Those old fusible-link PROMs were actually quite fast > > with access times of <50ns in many cases. And the designs depended on it. > Surely that's easy to get around. Upon power up - or when a reset button is > pushed, the device reads the image from EEprom and places it into SRAM, > which is what is actually accessed. Isn't SRAM fast enough? Yes, modern SRAM is fast enough. But that's 'easy' in theory. Firstly you have to have some way of switching the SRAM between the device and the loader (or use dual-port SRAM, which is darn expensive if it's fast). Secondly, you need to halt the device while the SRAM is loaded. Neither problem is difficult, but the second probably involves some modifications to the device (if only to the reset circuit), and the daughterboard ceases to be a 1 or 2 chips. -tony From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jul 30 00:45:23 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 systems going... In-Reply-To: <20040730033530.95612.qmail@web51804.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Jul 2004, SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: > > --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > > > Going... > > > > Anyone interested? > where are they? Livermore, California, 94550, USA, North America, Earth, etc. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From wstan at xs4all.nl Fri Jul 30 01:33:17 2004 From: wstan at xs4all.nl (William S.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: laptop batteries (Thinkpad 500) ??? In-Reply-To: <000501c4682c$457cc0f0$6401a8c0@hal9000> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20040711063810.021b9ec0@pop-server> <000501c4682c$457cc0f0$6401a8c0@hal9000> Message-ID: <20040730063317.GA47814@xs4all.nl> I have the 600e. Right now the battery is dead and won't take a charge. If I do send the pack out to replace the cells will this problem come back since it seems to relate to some charging-logic feature built into the pack design? See link below for explanation of the "problem" http://www.levien.com/tp600-battery.html On Mon, Jul 12, 2004 at 09:21:22AM -0700, Steven Canning wrote: > Gene, > > We don't know where you reside, but below Joe has you covered on the East > coast, and here on the "left" coast in California we have a place called > "House of Batteries" sales@houseofbatteries.com in Huntington Beach that > can get or make any combination of sizes and chemical makeup. They're 100% > so far in my book. Good luck. > > Best regards, Steven > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gene Ehrich" > > > Hope this is not off topic. The computer is over ten years old. > > > > I have been searching for a place to buy a battery for my Thinkpad 500 and > > came a cross a web site called laptopadapter.com > > > > 1. Has anybody dealt with this company and/or have a comment on buying > from > > them? > > > > 2. Any other suggestion where to get a battery for T500? > > > > > > > > Do you have the original battery pack? If so, I'd send it to one of the > places that will take it apart and replace the individual cells and > reassemble the pack. Just be sure they use GOOD cells and not the cheap -- Bill Amsterdam, NL From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Jul 30 03:16:57 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <20040730013222.JQCO2991.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> References: <20040730013222.JQCO2991.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: <87f782d64c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <20040730013222.JQCO2991.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Dave Dunfield wrote: > but.. especially in todays world (as you point out), having to get the "first" > ROM programmed should not be a show stopper. Even that is only an issue if the > OP decided to build my design "as is" - as discussed earlier in this message, > a little flash device could be used and then all you need is a serial or parallel > port to program it (depending on the requirements of the device). To me (primarily > a software guy), using a little controller with lots of I/O and ability to time > pulses far more accurately than winblows, it still makes sense to design a micro > based device. The other option if you need to make a bootstrap ROM and don't have access to a programmer would be the "DIP switch and monostable" trick. A one-shot monostable generates the program pulse, a bunch of DIP switches set the address and data locations. A momentary pushbutton switch fires the monostable, which gives the EPROM a 50mS program pulse, then waits for the key to be released. If I did something like that today, I'd probably use a few TIL311s, a 4040 counter and a bunch of switches. Or I'd use a PIC microcontroller and a bit of assembler code to program the ROM. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... My haystack had no needle! From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Fri Jul 30 07:09:35 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? Message-ID: <1091189364.23500.3.camel@fortran> I actually could swear I'd read somewhere that the MIT whirlwind had a clock, it was a mechanical contraption or something. I'll stop by the informatics library which has a book on the Whirlwind. (I'm picking up the Teletype to take it home and work on it here!:) -tsb From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jul 30 07:51:52 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: OT-ish - converting hex output to binary on a Unix platform Message-ID: <1091191912.13915.97.camel@weka.localdomain> Silly question, but maybe someone here's found a nice way of doing this using standard Unix tools... I have a few files in hex format (actually ROM dumps) and want to convert them to binary. Sort of the reverse of the hexdump utility. I'm not aware of a standard (and probably on-topic!) Unix util to do this, but maybe someone knows if there is one, or a handy way of doing this using some of the standard text-processing utils that Unix has... (files are in the format of 16 pairs of uppercase hex digits per line, with a trailing space after every pair - even the last one on a line) I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that I need to remember some C again - and I've only just finished emptying my brain of it after the last time I needed to code in it a couple of months ago :-) cheers Jules From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Jul 30 07:54:48 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: HP TSB (Time Share BASIC) Internals Manual References: <200407271645.JAA21201@clulw009.amd.com><01bb01c47405$9e080240$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <006201c475e5$c40a5ab0$acaafea9@newhare> Message-ID: <004f01c47634$65665a00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Bruce wrote... > I have scanned and placed on the web an Internals Guide for HP T.S.B. that > was written around 1969. It describes all of the core and disk structures > used in these early systems plus has hand-written flow charts (!) for each > command, the BASIC (semi-) compiler, runtime and decompiler. It is > available at: I have a TSB internals manual for the 2000E version that I got about 5 years ago. Al put it up on his site back then (it's still there). Al had located the internals manual for 2000/Access quite some time ago too and put it up on bitsavers as well. Both are much more complete than the document Bruce has. However, I just quickly thumbed through the IMS document Bruce has, and on the surface I can't tell what version of TSB it is for. It appears to be well before Access. It may be part of the 2000E IMS, but at first blush it looks like something earlier. Coincidentally, I had just printed off the 2000/Access IMS document last night. It's a good 2.5 to 3 inches thick. Sometime in the not too distant future I'm hoping to make some modifications to TSB, principally to ease the hardware requirements to make it run on easier to find hardware. The most likely first target will be to see what will be required to make 2000/Access work with individual serial cards like the BACI or 12531, instead of the hard to find 12920/21 mux set. Not completely sure that is possible, but perhaps. I'm looking into it. Most cool Bruce, thanks! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Jul 30 08:24:22 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? References: <4108A8BA.9090404@citem.org> Message-ID: <16650.19462.97771.231237@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell writes: >> I assume Sellam means a device which will present the time and >> possible date maintained independently of the CPU. There I would >> agree I we are into the mini era if not the micro.... There was an >> add on RTC clock card for the PDP-11 (but Sellam specified >> "built-in" ;-) If it does not Tony> I don't rememebr a clock card for the '11 -- there were Tony> line-time and programmable interrupt cards that gave a periodic Tony> 'heatbeat', and that's what DEC normally regarded as a real Tony> time clock... The standard "clock" was the KW11-L -- just an interrupt tied to the mains frequency. That was a very common option in early machines and became a builtin feature of the CPU assembly in later ones. Some systems, for example those used in real time control, might have a KW11-P -- which lets you program the interrupt rate from a choice of three input oscillators (100 kHz, 10 kHz, and mains, if I remember right) along with a programmable divider. The 11/20 on which I learned in the college physics department had such a beast, and I added support for it into RT11 BASIC. There's the KW11-W, which turns out not to be the TOY clock I thought it was -- it's a watchdog. RSX systems sometimes used that. Finally, there's the KW11-C which is what I was trying to remember. That is a TOY clock. See http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/decus/110721.html for example. I suspect it may have been a CSS ("Computer Special Systems" -- the custom and low volume department of DEC) creation, which would be a reason for it not being well known. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Jul 30 08:26:00 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? References: <002c01c4759a$6bdf5bb0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <16650.19560.718826.5286@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell writes: >> The 1973 pdp-11 processor handbook indicates that the PDP-11/05 >> and PDP-11/10 had a line frequency clock and the PDP-11/35 and >> PDP-11/40 are pre-wired to accept a KW11-I. So they could track >> the passage of time, but not while the power was off. >> >> I doubt that any PDP-8 came with any such option Tony> Line time interupts certainly existed for the PDP8/e, but Tony> that's about the same vintage. There was also one for the P850, Tony> which is a couple of years earlier (1970, I think). While it is possible to build batch computers that have no sense of time, it would be really hard to imagine a timesharing system without that, for how else would you do timeslice scheduling? Timesharing has been implemented on the PDP-1. And isn't the original Dartmouth timesharing system even older? paul From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Jul 30 08:29:50 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: a classiccmp electronics project? References: Message-ID: <006b01c47639$4a40f140$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Tony wrote... > Yes, modern SRAM is fast enough. But that's 'easy' in theory. Firstly you > have to have some way of switching the SRAM between the device and the > loader Dual port SRAM is one answer. Or, I'm not sure what the power on test in microcode does on the MX's, but my guess is it doesn't touch the add-on microcode. The loader roms probably aren't touched either until called from the front panel. If the RPL stuff is turned on, it may though. I think the RPL stuff may have a built in delay cycle, and the EEprom to SRAM copy would be done by then. My initial guess is that upon powerup, the device would copy from NVRAM or EEprom to SRAM, then switch the SRAM to be available to the host. I would think this process would be awfully fast. > (or use dual-port SRAM, which is darn expensive if it's fast). Expensive is better than not ever having any blank old-style proms :) > Secondly, you need to halt the device while the SRAM is loaded. I would envision the SRAM load to only happen once, during power up. One could build in a reset button and dip bank switch or micro rotary switch that would make it load different contents, but it would be up to the operator not to do that while the system was running. > Neither problem is difficult, but the second probably involves some > modifications to the device (if only to the reset circuit), and the > daughterboard ceases to be a 1 or 2 chips. Chip count would be highly desireable to keep to a minimum. I don't know how this would apply to non-HP systems, but on the HP boxes there's another approach. On the E series for example, there are four 14pin sockets in very close proximity on the cpu board for loader roms. One could build a single larger daughtercard that would plug into all 4 four loader rom sockets simultaneously. You would have more real estate on the daughterboard to use, plus, perhaps you could get "economies of scale" by having one SRAM service the four rom data at once. Just some uninformed thoughts on my part :) Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jul 30 08:31:07 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: OT-ish - converting hex output to binary on a Unix platform In-Reply-To: <1091191912.13915.97.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1091191912.13915.97.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040730153107.42e66c34.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 12:51:52 +0000 Jules Richardson wrote: > I have a few files in hex format (actually ROM dumps) and want to > convert them to binary. Sort of the reverse of the hexdump utility. I'm > not aware of a standard (and probably on-topic!) Unix util to do this, awk(1) is your friend. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From spectre at floodgap.com Fri Jul 30 09:08:19 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: OT-ish - converting hex output to binary on a Unix platform In-Reply-To: <20040730153107.42e66c34.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from Jochen Kunz at "Jul 30, 4 03:31:07 pm" Message-ID: <200407301408.HAA17204@floodgap.com> > > I have a few files in hex format (actually ROM dumps) and want to > > convert them to binary. Sort of the reverse of the hexdump utility. I'm > > not aware of a standard (and probably on-topic!) Unix util to do this, > awk(1) is your friend. I'd pick perl(1) myself ... this is standard on just about all modern Un*ces of any flavour. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- CONJUGATION OF THE HULKING ENTOMOLOGIST: I big / I bag / I have bug -------- From zmerch at 30below.com Fri Jul 30 09:31:19 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: OT-ish - converting hex output to binary on a Unix platform In-Reply-To: <200407301408.HAA17204@floodgap.com> References: <20040730153107.42e66c34.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040730102314.04fa31d8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Cameron Kaiser may have mentioned these words: > > > I have a few files in hex format (actually ROM dumps) and want to > > > convert them to binary. Sort of the reverse of the hexdump utility. I'm > > > not aware of a standard (and probably on-topic!) Unix util to do this, > > > awk(1) is your friend. > >I'd pick perl(1) myself ... this is standard on just about all modern Un*ces >of any flavour. My opinion - if you already know perl, then I'd agree, but if you'd have to learn it anyway, skip it and learn python(1) _if it exists on the system_. For me, the learning curve was about 50% shorter than learning perl, and more recently is just as "standard" as perl, as a *lot* of system utils are being written in it now. Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Randomization is better!!! If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From LAAG at PACBELL.NET Fri Jul 30 09:51:09 2004 From: LAAG at PACBELL.NET (LAAG) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: REAL TIME CLOCK Message-ID: <410A605D.1050800@PACBELL.NET> THE COMPUTER AUTOMATION COMPUTERS HAD A HARDWARE INTERRUPT FOR A REAL TIME CLOCK AND THEN THE SOFTWARE WOULD UPDATE THE INFO AT THE SELECTED INTERVAL... THESE CAME OUT IN 1970 OR SO... From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri Jul 30 10:25:59 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: OT-ish - converting hex output to binary on a Unix platform In-Reply-To: <1091191912.13915.97.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1091191912.13915.97.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200407301529.LAA00956@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Silly question, but maybe someone here's found a nice way of doing > this using standard Unix tools... > I have a few files in hex format (actually ROM dumps) and want to > convert them to binary. Sort of the reverse of the hexdump utility. I haven't found a way to do this with standard tools. I'd use two small tools I wrote long ago: one to convert hex to decimal, the other to go from character codes to the characters themselves. Both are up for anonymous ftp from ftp.rodents.montreal.qc.ca, the base-converter in /mouse/hacks/cvtbase.c and the converter from codes to characters in /mouse/local/src/charcode/ (the latter also includes a converter to go the other way). /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From jbmcb at hotmail.com Fri Jul 30 11:02:54 2004 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: REAL TIME CLOCK Message-ID: I'm not sure what the exact criteria are, but I'm almost positive the SAGE system would have a real time clock. Tracking inbound bogeys is pretty time-dependant :) http://www.eskimo.com/~wow-ray/sage28.html _________________________________________________________________ Discover the best of the best at MSN Luxury Living. http://lexus.msn.com/ From allain at panix.com Fri Jul 30 11:05:12 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: OT-ish - converting hex output to binary on a Unix platform References: <1091191912.13915.97.camel@weka.localdomain> <200407301529.LAA00956@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <00a401c4764f$00d26960$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> This is a fun thing to try as a "1st year" programming assignment. As far as making it standard, there's too many possible output formats to try to anticipate. Know the format that you plan use and the complexity of the program falls away. Try to be aware of null suppression and other output compression defaults and turn them off. I grabbed a copy of KERMIT.EXE for VAX in ~1983 by capturing a $DUMP stream and deformatting it in this way. Very gratifying. John A. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jul 30 09:32:05 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040729163620.00934e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040730103205.00930160@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:04 AM 7/30/04 +0100, you wrote: >> >> Well I know I'm a lot more selective about my TV and movies than the >> >> majority of people but are you trying to tell me that there's NOTHING worth >> >> watching on TV or movies? What do you have against women, beer and sports? >> > >> >I watch _very_ little TV, and wouldn't bother at all if I had to pay for >> >the license (as opposed to watching my parents' set). UK TV is pretty >> >darn awful.... >> >> Same here but we now get enough channels that you can USUALLY find >> something worth watching. The Discovery, Wings and History channels are > >Very different in the UK. Most of the stuff on the standard 5 channels is >terrible, and from what I've seen, the digital/satellite/cable channels >aren't much better. Serously, I'd much rather be using a soldering iron... > >> actually coming out with some pretty good stuff. > >> >I assume you think the chap who wrote 'The Voice of the Crystal' and >> >'Instruments of Amplification' was wasting his time. >> >> I've never heard of either one. > >They're actually quite interesting books. 'The Voice of the Crystal' is >about making crystal radios using _no_ commercial electronic components >at all. He makes his own coils (trivial), detector (using a similar >design to the ones made 100 years ago), variable capacitor (suprisinging >hard to make, acually), headphones (both magnetic and crystal, the latter >using the peizo-electric element from a cigarette lighter), etc. > >'Instruments of Amplification', IMHO is the more interesting book. He >describes how to homebrew amplifying devices (not the circuits, which any >of us could make). The 'microphonic relay' (electromagnets coupled to a >carbon microphone-like thing), diode and triode valves (using filaments >taken from light bulbs, in case you're wondering), transisotrs >(point-contact ones using the crystal from a germanium diode, copper >oxide ones made the hard way), and so on. They sound interesting. I'll see if I can find a couple of copies. You might be intersted in this site . He's build a lot of odd electronic devices including Tunnel Diodes using the zinc coating on galvanized sheet metal and borax rectifiers. > >Now, to be honext, the devices are terrible. If you want a triode to use, >go and buy am ECC83 / 12AX7. If you want a tranistor, go and get a >2N3904. It'll work a lot better, last a lot longer (his first home-made >valves had filament lifetimes of a few minutes, his transistors broke >down at a few volts), and be a lot cheaper. Same with the devices on the website that I pointed out but still it's an interesting education into what can be done with simple materials and the characteristics some materials that we seldom use any more. > >But IMHO you'll lear a lot if you read said books, and even more if you >try to repeat and improve on the designs. > >> an EPROM programmer. I build that kind of thing when I was a kid and I just >> don't see that I'd get anything out of building another one. > >There's probably little point if you've already built at least one >programmer, or a similar insturment of similar complexity. But if you >haven't, then you should have a go. As I aid, you'll learn a lot, not >just about EPROMs... > >I think the best way to sum it up is to quote from a book written nearly >100 years ago called 'Every Boy His Own Mechanic'. This chapter covers >making a simple telephone system > >" For some years previous to 1914 the constructive instinct and ability >inherent in many of us was almost snuffed out because most of the >mechanical and electrical things we wished to possess were so cheap that >they could be bought ready made. Often the prices quoted were actually >below the cost to us of the raw materials, and so we came to think that >constructive hobbies were a bit futile. Lots of those cheap things were >amazingly good, but some where exasperatingly bad, and the bulk >indifferent. Still, we bought the stuff, learned nothing from it, and >clean missed all the solid satisfaction that lives for ever in building >and contriving and creating > >Take the ready-made cheap telephone, for instance. How long did it take >to get fed up with ringing and asking "are you there ?" Was it really >worth the outlay of 15s to 45s? Frankly, no. Why? Because our purchase >locked us out from all the subtle mysteries of an ever-wonderful >instrument (simple though it may be), and we had been robbed of all the >joy of its making. If it failed to act we discovered that we could not >put it right. If it acted perfectly, we took the whole thing for granted >and soon became bored. But to build up that same installation oneself in >the face of difficulties from the homeliest of raw materials, and at last >to have it (in litteral fact) voicing our triumph in our eager-listening >ears - ah, that is a very different matter! " > >And that's why I still homebrew stuff.... So do I but I have to draw the line somewhere and I just choose not to spend time on readily available devices. I'd rather spend it on something like the homemade tunnel diode where I'll learn more than I would bulding EPROM programmers. I've build the programmers and frankly I didn't learn much from it but maybe that's because I've done a LOT of work in digital electronics. Joe > >-tony > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jul 30 09:33:47 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: Cirris 1000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040730103347.00931160@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:04 AM 7/30/04 +0100, Lee wrote: >> Holy moley! Speaking of word usage, I sure hope there's nobody from >> Wales on this list. > >Why should we be offended? Just 'cos Joe can't spell? 8^)= Holy smokes! (Can I say that?) Someone that hasn't found something to gripe about! :-) Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jul 30 09:39:44 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040729163620.00934e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040728121435.008c0590@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040729163620.00934e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040730103944.00932150@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:04 AM 7/30/04 +0100, Philip wrote: > >Stuck with the normal BBC and ITV channels here. ?40 a month is a bit >excessive for what basically amounts to kids channels and imported American >crap. That's funny. A lot of the shows that we're getting on the cable channels here come from the UK. The comedy shows are corny IMO but some of the shows like JunkYard Wars are pretty entertaining. Joe > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jul 30 10:01:59 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <20040730015117.GB19043@bos7.spole.gov> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040730110159.009ca7b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:51 AM 7/30/04 +0000, Ethan wrote: >On Fri, Jul 30, 2004 at 02:13:47AM +0100, Davison, Lee wrote: >> >> >>I have a couple of "ultraviolet" LEDs with me, but I doubt they are the >> >>right frequency to erase EPROMs. >> >> > If they're the high power UV LEDs then they should work. A friend of >> > mine uses those to erase his EPROMs and the erase time is about the same >> > as for a UV light. >> >> There are not yet available UV LEDs that radiate at short enough wavelength >> to erase EPROMs in a reasonable time. Most EPROMs will start to erase at >> <400nm but take hours of exposure, to erase an EPROM in 20 mins or so needs >> 12mW/cm^2 of 257nm light on the die face. The longer wavelengths just warm >> the chip up a bit. > >I will have to check, but IIRC, my LEDs are 450nm. I just called and talked to my friend about this. He has some >> prototype << high power UV LEDs that are about 375nm. He also some that are deeper UV but the phone connection was lousy and I couldn't get any more details. I'm not even sure which ones he used to erase the EPROMs with or how long it took. Your 450nm LEDs probably won't work. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jul 30 10:12:22 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <4109B988.6050809@jetnet.ab.ca> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040730111222.008bf100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:59 PM 7/29/04 -0600, Ben wrote: I would like to create several PCB's >rather than wire wrap but I have yet to find good information on PCB >layout guide lines See if you can find a copy of Printed Circuits Handbook by Clyde F Coombs, McGraw-Hill 1988. It will tell you EVERYTHING you should ever need to know about circuit boards. It's geared to industrial production not home production so it's not a how to but it has TONs of good technical info including layout info. FYI Clyde Coombs is Editor in Chief at HP in Palo Alta, Ca. You may be able to get your local library to order the book on an inter-library loan. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jul 30 10:37:22 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: laptop batteries (Thinkpad 500) ??? In-Reply-To: <20040730063317.GA47814@xs4all.nl> References: <000501c4682c$457cc0f0$6401a8c0@hal9000> <6.1.2.0.2.20040711063810.021b9ec0@pop-server> <000501c4682c$457cc0f0$6401a8c0@hal9000> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040730113722.00932930@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:33 AM 7/30/04 +0200, you wrote: >I have the 600e. >Right now the battery is dead and won't take a charge. >If I do send the pack out to replace the cells will this >problem come back since it seems to relate to >some charging-logic feature built into the pack design? Quite possibly. I'm finding out that a lot of the problems in NHM and Li-ion batteries are due to the circuitry in the battery packs and not the batteries themselves. I've been looking for an extended battery for my Dell Lattitude LM laptop. Recently I found 12 of them in a surplus store and I bought them all. NONE of them works even though they looked new and unused! I've even opened a couple of them up and charged the batteries with a small regulated power supply but the pack still has no output and the computer doesn't recognze that it's even installed and it doesn't appear tobe getting any charging curent via the computer and standard charger. There is a LOT of circuitry in those packs. I expect the parts count is well over 100 devices including many ICs (and everything is surface mount). Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jul 30 11:17:01 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: Whirlwind: Re: First computer with real-time clock? In-Reply-To: <1091189364.23500.3.camel@fortran> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040730121701.008bec80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:09 PM 7/30/04 +0200, you wrote: >I actually could swear I'd read somewhere that the MIT whirlwind had a >clock, it was a mechanical contraption or something. > >I'll stop by the informatics library which has a book on the Whirlwind. If you find a book about the Whirlwind let me knowe the title, author, etc. I'd like to find a copy and read it. Joe From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Jul 30 11:26:20 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: OT-ish - converting hex output to binary on a Unix platform Message-ID: <200407301626.JAA23999@clulw009.amd.com> Hi If I was doing this on a Intel ISIS II system, I'd use an editor called X1.11. Although, there are languages like Perl that specifically handle text input streams, most any language can handle this conversion. I believe I have written this very same function in at least 3 different languages at one time or another. I know I've done it in BASIC, 8080 assembly and Forth. The concept is always the same. 1. Get a line 2. parse the line into words( hex digit pairs ) 3. Translate the hex into binary 4. write that to an output file. One just repeats this until done. Of course, one may optimize things by buffering input and output in sizes that are similar to the storage media. Translation can be any of a number of methods. Even a translation table although I think I've always done it by doing calculations on the ascii value( some languages get in the way by requiring casting between data types ). Dwight >From: "Jules Richardson" > > >Silly question, but maybe someone here's found a nice way of doing this >using standard Unix tools... > >I have a few files in hex format (actually ROM dumps) and want to >convert them to binary. Sort of the reverse of the hexdump utility. I'm >not aware of a standard (and probably on-topic!) Unix util to do this, >but maybe someone knows if there is one, or a handy way of doing this >using some of the standard text-processing utils that Unix has... > >(files are in the format of 16 pairs of uppercase hex digits per line, >with a trailing space after every pair - even the last one on a line) > >I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that I need to remember some C >again - and I've only just finished emptying my brain of it after the >last time I needed to code in it a couple of months ago :-) > >cheers > >Jules > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jul 30 11:25:14 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: Lucas Electrics: RE: Commodore Pet ROM trouble... EPROM Substitutes... In-Reply-To: <200407292359.i6TNxCbY041185@huey.classiccmp.org> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040730122514.0090bab0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:41 PM 7/29/04 -0700, you wrote: >>> That's called a 'Light Emitting EPROM' and it's an expensive and >>> short-lived alternative to an LED. > >>Is this related to things like the SER (Smoke Emiting Resistor -- one >>where the power rating is massivle exceeded), SEC (Sound Emitinf Capacitor >>-- an electrolytic wired backwards), the Friode (a diode that's >>open-circuit both ways), etc? > >Sounds like what Lucas Electric used to use. >http://pw1.netcom.com/~krk/lotus/humor/lucasjokes.html ROFL! Only someone who's had a vehicle with Lucas electronics could truely appreciate that! Joe (x-1952 MG TD) From aek at spies.com Fri Jul 30 11:49:12 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: Whirlwind: Re: First computer with real-time clock? Message-ID: <20040730164912.024B23C88@spies.com> Kent C. Redmond and Thomas M. Smith, Project Whirlwind: The History of a Pioneer Computer, Bedford, MA: Digital Press, 1980. ISBN: 0932376096 The book is pretty light on techical information on the computer, however. I'm hoping there is some meater info on Whirlwind buried in the CHM stacks. From Pres at macro-inc.com Fri Jul 30 11:49:28 2004 From: Pres at macro-inc.com (Ed Kelleher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:37 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040730111222.008bf100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <4109B988.6050809@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20040730123757.0302cc18@192.168.0.1> At 11:12 AM 7/30/2004, you wrote: >At 08:59 PM 7/29/04 -0600, Ben wrote: >I would like to create several PCB's > >rather than wire wrap but I have yet to find good information on PCB > >layout guide lines > > See if you can find a copy of Printed Circuits Handbook by Clyde F >Coombs, McGraw-Hill 1988. It will tell you EVERYTHING you should ever need >to know about circuit boards. It's geared to industrial production not home >production so it's not a how to but it has TONs of good technical info >including layout info. FYI Clyde Coombs is Editor in Chief at HP in Palo >Alta, Ca. You may be able to get your local library to order the book on >an inter-library loan. A good book as Joe says, but pretty technical. I got it when I needed some info on high voltage (1200vdc) trace spacing for a PCB design. But, there are any number of PCB fabs out there that want your business and will take your drawings in Gerber format and make boards cheaply and quickly. Google Printed Circuit boards I use Protel software (which is pretty pricey) and https://www.2justforyou.com/ to make my boards and have been real happy with them. But here's link to another outfit with links to free layout software. http://www.pcbexpress.com/links.php#freeware All these places will give you guidelines on how to lay the boards out. Most of the software will do "design rule checks" to eliminate shorts and open nets. This place will do free design rule checks on your Gerbers: https://www.freedfm.com/!freedfmstep1.asp I didn't like their boards though, I couldn't see the traces through the dark solder mask and 2 of 3 I ordered had VCC to GND shorts (I check the power nets at least before I start soldering on them). I've done pretty complex mixed analog/digital designs with just 2 layer boards. 7 mil lines and spaces will let you put 2 traces between leads on DIPs without and big manufacturing hoo-hoo. Ed From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Jul 30 12:06:27 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: Whirlwind: Re: First computer with real-time clock? References: <1091189364.23500.3.camel@fortran> <3.0.6.32.20040730121701.008bec80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <16650.32787.826195.116494@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Joe" == Joe R writes: Joe> At 02:09 PM 7/30/04 +0200, you wrote: >> I actually could swear I'd read somewhere that the MIT whirlwind >> had a clock, it was a mechanical contraption or something. >> >> I'll stop by the informatics library which has a book on the >> Whirlwind. Joe> If you find a book about the Whirlwind let me knowe the title, Joe> author, etc. I'd like to find a copy and read it. I have one from Digital Press, picked up years ago at a DEC library sale. paul From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jul 30 11:09:19 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: OT-ish - converting hex output to binary on a Unix platform In-Reply-To: <200407301408.HAA17204@floodgap.com> References: <20040730153107.42e66c34.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <200407301408.HAA17204@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <20040730180919.66a0323d.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 07:08:19 -0700 (PDT) Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > awk(1) is your friend. > I'd pick perl(1) myself ... this is standard on just about all modern > Un*ces of any flavour. At least on my favorite Unix, NetBSD, perl(1) is an option that needs to be installed separately. awk(1) is "everywhere". \begin{personal opinion} Also: I did some small work in perl(1) and came to the conclusion that perl(1) is a disease and should be eliminated from the universe. ;-) \end{personal opinion} -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jul 30 12:22:13 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: OT-ish - converting hex output to binary on a Unix platform In-Reply-To: Jules Richardson "OT-ish - converting hex output to binary on a Unix platform" (Jul 30, 12:51) References: <1091191912.13915.97.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <10407301822.ZM1501@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 30, 12:51, Jules Richardson wrote: > > I have a few files in hex format (actually ROM dumps) and want to > convert them to binary. Sort of the reverse of the hexdump utility. I'm > not aware of a standard (and probably on-topic!) Unix util to do this, > but maybe someone knows if there is one, or a handy way of doing this > using some of the standard text-processing utils that Unix has... mload will do this for Intel HEX files and patches, but it sounds like your files aren't quite the same as Intel HEX. However, the source code can be modified. http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/IntelHEX/ contains the tar file, but the important bits are also at http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/mload.c http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/mload.1 It's an implementation I did years ago of a common CP/M program called, not surprisingly, mload. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jul 30 12:24:41 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: Cirris 1000 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040730103347.00931160@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Jul 2004, Joe R. wrote: > At 12:04 AM 7/30/04 +0100, Lee wrote: > >> Holy moley! Speaking of word usage, I sure hope there's nobody from > >> Wales on this list. > > > >Why should we be offended? Just 'cos Joe can't spell? 8^)= > > Holy smokes! (Can I say that?) Someone that hasn't found something to > gripe about! :-) You just offended smokers and all the people from the Isle of Smokes. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From technobug at comcast.net Fri Jul 30 13:28:22 2004 From: technobug at comcast.net (CRC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <200407301700.i6UH03bZ047057@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200407301700.i6UH03bZ047057@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3CF40781-E256-11D8-9771-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> On Jul 30, 2004, at 10:00 AM, cctalk-request@classiccmp.org wrote: At 08:59 PM 7/29/04 -0600, Ben wrote: > I would like to create several PCB's > rather than wire wrap but I have yet to find good information on PCB > layout guide lines > Check out CRC From Innfogra at aol.com Fri Jul 30 14:25:27 2004 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: Can anyone identify this portable? Message-ID: There was a clone case like this that you could put any XT board in. Check the BIOS. Very limited production. Paxton Astoria, OR From mross666 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 30 15:13:45 2004 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: IBM 1092 Message-ID: I've recently heard of an archaic IBM device, the 1092 Densely Coded Matrix - a 10 x 15 array of switches, essentially a Big Keyboard, with customisable plastic overlay 'keycaps'. Could be used for input on 60's systems - 1410, my 1800, probably S/360 too. Originally developed at the University of Missouri, for control of CNC-type cloth cutting machines in garment trade. Anyone got one? Seen one? Anecdotes of them? BTW, I'm *still* engaged in a probably-hopeless search for a 1052 or 1816 (heavy-duty 1052) console to use with my 1800, in the increasingly-unlikely event that anyone here can point me towards one... Mike http://www.corestore.org From trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Fri Jul 30 15:11:44 2004 From: trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (trash3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: RX50 Dis/assembly.. Message-ID: <040730161144.14e88@splab.cas.neu.edu> Did you get it back together? I have 3 RX50 drives I have not dismantled yet, so I could probably let you know layout. Joe HEck From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 30 16:41:07 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: OT-ish - converting hex output to binary on a Unix platform In-Reply-To: <1091191912.13915.97.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Jul 30, 4 12:51:52 pm Message-ID: > > > Silly question, but maybe someone here's found a nice way of doing this > using standard Unix tools... I am not aware of a standard unix utility to do this, but it shouldn't be too hard to do it in perl or C. > (files are in the format of 16 pairs of uppercase hex digits per line, > with a trailing space after every pair - even the last one on a line) > > I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that I need to remember some C > again - and I've only just finished emptying my brain of it after the > last time I needed to code in it a couple of months ago :-) I know that when I wanted to convert some ROM dumps to/from Intel-hex format, it didn't take me long to knock up a rough-and-ready pair of programs to do this (rough-and-ready meaning that they assumed that intelhex lines were less than 256 characters long -- which is certainly the case with my (commercial) EPROM programmer), etc). And I am not a programmer... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 30 16:43:41 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? In-Reply-To: <16650.19462.97771.231237@gargle.gargle.HOWL> from "Paul Koning" at Jul 30, 4 09:24:22 am Message-ID: > The standard "clock" was the KW11-L -- just an interrupt tied to the > mains frequency. That was a very common option in early machines and > became a builtin feature of the CPU assembly in later ones. > > Some systems, for example those used in real time control, might have > a KW11-P -- which lets you program the interrupt rate from a choice of > three input oscillators (100 kHz, 10 kHz, and mains, if I remember > right) along with a programmable divider. The 11/20 on which I > learned in the college physics department had such a beast, and I > added support for it into RT11 BASIC. I know both of those cards, along with the DL11-W (which essentially has a KW11-L built-in), the MNCKW (MINC clock module, somwwhat similar to the KW11-P, the KW11-K (IIRC that's a dual clock card with some nice features), and so on. I think I have prints for all of them too. However, I don't think this is what Sellam meant by 'real time clock'. I think (and please correct me if I'm wrong) he was talking about a Time-of-Year clock type of thing. > Finally, there's the KW11-C which is what I was trying to remember. > That is a TOY clock. See Ah, now that one I've not come across. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 30 16:46:47 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: a classiccmp electronics project? In-Reply-To: <006b01c47639$4a40f140$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at Jul 30, 4 08:29:50 am Message-ID: > > Tony wrote... > > Yes, modern SRAM is fast enough. But that's 'easy' in theory. Firstly you > > have to have some way of switching the SRAM between the device and the > > loader > Dual port SRAM is one answer. Or, I'm not sure what the power on test in Sure, but have you looked at the price :-) > microcode does on the MX's, but my guess is it doesn't touch the add-on > microcode. The loader roms probably aren't touched either until called from > the front panel. If the RPL stuff is turned on, it may though. I think the OK. I was thinking about the microcode ROMs in an HP9810 (somethign that _I_ am working on, and those are most certainly 'hit' as soon as INIT is deaseserted and the microocde program counter starts to change. I prefer to think of general-purpose solutions (i.e. somethign that will replace every 256*4 ROM), rather than soemthing that works only in specific machines under specific circumstances. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 30 16:52:55 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040730103205.00930160@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at Jul 30, 4 10:32:05 am Message-ID: [The Voice of the Crystal amd Instruments of Amplification] > They sound interesting. I'll see if I can find a couple of copies. You They are still in print AFAIK. I got mine from Camden Miniature Steam Services in Rode (near Bath, England). I assume you can get them in the States. > might be intersted in this site > . He's build a lot of odd > electronic devices including Tunnel Diodes using the zinc coating on > galvanized sheet metal and borax rectifiers. Thanks, I will take a look. > Same with the devices on the website that I pointed out but still it's an > interesting education into what can be done with simple materials and the > characteristics some materials that we seldom use any more. Exactly. > So do I but I have to draw the line somewhere and I just choose not to > spend time on readily available devices. I'd rather spend it on something It depends. If I think I can build a 'better' device than the one I can afford commerically, then I build it. If I think I'm going to learn something useful, then I build it. Sometimes I do actually buy a modern device, but it has to be well made (that's non-trivial to find these days ;-(), it has to be repairable, and it has to work properly. Quite a few modern devices fall down on all 3 points! > like the homemade tunnel diode where I'll learn more than I would bulding > EPROM programmers. I've build the programmers and frankly I didn't learn > much from it but maybe that's because I've done a LOT of work in digital > electronics. You or I probably wouldn't learn much from building a programmer (and actually, the only reason _I'd_ build a programer would be to get one that actually worked on a computer that I owned, as opposed to an Wintel box), but for people who've not got the experience, it can be well worth having a go. Just remmeber that you _will_ destroy a few EPROMs during testing (I am somewhat proud to say that IIRC I only blew up one chip). -tony From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jul 30 17:09:15 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: Seeking Strawberry Tree or LabTech (Laboratory Technologies) software Message-ID: Has anyone got any old Strawberry Tree Inc. or LabTech (Laboratory Technologies, now National Instruments) data acquisition software? I've been getting periodic requests for specific software packages from these companies and am hoping I can find some. This is a bounty so this could be worth money. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bmachacek at pcisys.net Fri Jul 30 17:15:30 2004 From: bmachacek at pcisys.net (Bill Machacek) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: PDP 11/23 Plus Message-ID: <001601c47682$bdd119c0$0200000a@xeon> I just located a PDP 11/23 Plus that is going to be scrapped soon if no one is interested in it. I told the owners that I would check to see if there was any interest in the unit from a chat site I am part of. This is a rack mounted unit with 2 RL02 drives and several disks for the RL02 units also in the rack. It also has the air conditioning attached to the back of the rack. It is sitting outside (come rain or shine) so it may be vandalized at some point in time or the weather may get to it. The owners are interested in getting rid of it, but of course want a payment of some amount. They did not give me a number of what they wanted for it. Is there any interest here on the board? I can go back and get more information on the item if needed. Just let me know what you'd like to know about it. I was going to get the SN, but couldn't find it. I'm willing to work with anyone who is interested..... Bill Machacek Colo. Springs, CO From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jul 30 17:42:51 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: OT-ish - converting hex output to binary on a Unix platform In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1091227371.13915.134.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-07-30 at 21:41, Tony Duell wrote: > I know that when I wanted to convert some ROM dumps to/from Intel-hex > format, it didn't take me long to knock up a rough-and-ready pair of > programs to do this (rough-and-ready meaning that they assumed that > intelhex lines were less than 256 characters long -- which is certainly > the case with my (commercial) EPROM programmer), etc). That's what I've ended up with actually - at least for going from hex to binary. Hexdump handles the other way around quite happily! I dislike writing C, but I dislike writing Perl even more :-) I couldn't figure out a good way of doing this with awk - I'm capable of writing some awk to format output, but not to actual interpret data, do calculations with it, and spit it out in a different format... Anyway, problem solved. It's a stop-gap measure as the comms software I have under Linux doesn't like capturing binary data from the EPROM programmer, so I have to dump stuff in hex format (but would rather have stored on the PC in binary format). I'll sort out a better method sometime ('cat /dev/serialport > file' would be nice!) cheers Jules From donm at cts.com Fri Jul 30 17:58:01 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: Lucas Electrics: RE: Commodore Pet ROM trouble... EPROM Substitutes... In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040730122514.0090bab0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Jul 2004, Joe R. wrote: > At 04:41 PM 7/29/04 -0700, you wrote: > >>> That's called a 'Light Emitting EPROM' and it's an expensive and > >>> short-lived alternative to an LED. > > > >>Is this related to things like the SER (Smoke Emiting Resistor -- one > >>where the power rating is massivle exceeded), SEC (Sound Emitinf Capacitor > >>-- an electrolytic wired backwards), the Friode (a diode that's > >>open-circuit both ways), etc? > > > >Sounds like what Lucas Electric used to use. > >http://pw1.netcom.com/~krk/lotus/humor/lucasjokes.html > > ROFL! Only someone who's had a vehicle with Lucas electronics could > truely appreciate that! > > Joe (x-1952 MG TD) ...or had experience with Magneti Morelli eqquipment! - don From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Jul 30 18:00:43 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: a classiccmp electronics project? Message-ID: <200407302300.QAA24203@clulw009.amd.com> >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk > >> >> Tony wrote... >> > Yes, modern SRAM is fast enough. But that's 'easy' in theory. Firstly you >> > have to have some way of switching the SRAM between the device and the >> > loader >> Dual port SRAM is one answer. Or, I'm not sure what the power on test in > >Sure, but have you looked at the price :-) Hi You use single port RAM with an output buffer ( could even be a 7404 but it would most likely need a 3state control, '240 or '244 ). You hold the machine in reset while you transfer data to the RAM ( It doen't make much sense to do it on the fly with the machine actually running ). This isn't much more complicated than a memory board. Dwight > >> microcode does on the MX's, but my guess is it doesn't touch the add-on >> microcode. The loader roms probably aren't touched either until called from >> the front panel. If the RPL stuff is turned on, it may though. I think the > >OK. I was thinking about the microcode ROMs in an HP9810 (somethign that >_I_ am working on, and those are most certainly 'hit' as soon as INIT is >deaseserted and the microocde program counter starts to change. I prefer >to think of general-purpose solutions (i.e. somethign that will replace >every 256*4 ROM), rather than soemthing that works only in specific >machines under specific circumstances. > >-tony > > > From donm at cts.com Fri Jul 30 18:09:57 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: Lucas Electrics: RE: Commodore Pet ROM trouble... EPROM Substitutes... Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Jul 2004, Joe R. wrote: > At 04:41 PM 7/29/04 -0700, you wrote: > >>> That's called a 'Light Emitting EPROM' and it's an expensive and > >>> short-lived alternative to an LED. > > > >>Is this related to things like the SER (Smoke Emiting Resistor -- one > >>where the power rating is massivle exceeded), SEC (Sound Emitinf Capacitor > >>-- an electrolytic wired backwards), the Friode (a diode that's > >>open-circuit both ways), etc? > > > >Sounds like what Lucas Electric used to use. > >http://pw1.netcom.com/~krk/lotus/humor/lucasjokes.html > > ROFL! Only someone who's had a vehicle with Lucas electronics could > truely appreciate that! > > Joe (x-1952 MG TD) ...or had experience with Magneti Morelli eqquipment! xxxxxxx Marelli - don From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Jul 30 18:28:11 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: Lucas Electrics: RE: Commodore Pet ROM trouble... EPROM Substitutes... Message-ID: <200407302328.QAA24216@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Don Maslin" > > > >On Fri, 30 Jul 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> At 04:41 PM 7/29/04 -0700, you wrote: >> >>> That's called a 'Light Emitting EPROM' and it's an expensive and >> >>> short-lived alternative to an LED. >> > >> >>Is this related to things like the SER (Smoke Emiting Resistor -- one >> >>where the power rating is massivle exceeded), SEC (Sound Emitinf Capacitor >> >>-- an electrolytic wired backwards), the Friode (a diode that's >> >>open-circuit both ways), etc? >> > >> >Sounds like what Lucas Electric used to use. >> >http://pw1.netcom.com/~krk/lotus/humor/lucasjokes.html >> >> ROFL! Only someone who's had a vehicle with Lucas electronics could >> truely appreciate that! >> >> Joe (x-1952 MG TD) > >...or had experience with Magneti Morelli eqquipment! > xxxxxxx > Marelli > > - don > Hi The only problems I've ever had with Lucas was there fuel pumps, ignition coils, distributors, alternators and fuse holders. The Magneti Marelli stuff was actually a little better. I never had issue with the alternators ( regulators were junk ) but then I never had an Italian car with an electric fuel pump. For switches, the worst I ever encountered were used in Audi's. Dwight From vrs at msn.com Fri Jul 30 19:26:51 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: a classiccmp electronics project? References: Message-ID: <020201c47695$138e15e0$6700a8c0@vrshome.msn.com> > OK. I was thinking about the microcode ROMs in an HP9810 (somethign that > _I_ am working on, and those are most certainly 'hit' as soon as INIT is > deaseserted and the microocde program counter starts to change. I prefer > to think of general-purpose solutions (i.e. somethign that will replace > every 256*4 ROM), rather than soemthing that works only in specific > machines under specific circumstances. I must not be getting it, somehow. Why can't you just use a 45ns or 55ns 27c256 or 27c512 and swizzle the pinout? These are around $3 per chip, and seem to meet the requirements. Vince From spectre at floodgap.com Fri Jul 30 19:52:00 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: OT-ish - converting hex output to binary on a Unix platform In-Reply-To: <20040730180919.66a0323d.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from Jochen Kunz at "Jul 30, 4 06:09:19 pm" Message-ID: <200407310052.RAA15648@floodgap.com> > > > awk(1) is your friend. > > I'd pick perl(1) myself ... this is standard on just about all modern > > Un*ces of any flavour. > At least on my favorite Unix, NetBSD, perl(1) is an option that needs to > be installed separately. awk(1) is "everywhere". I did say just about ;) (and btw, NetBSD is my OS of choice also). -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- An apple every eight hours will keep three doctors away. ------------------- From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Jul 30 19:57:56 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: a classiccmp electronics project? Message-ID: <200407310057.RAA24309@clulw009.amd.com> >From: vrs > >> OK. I was thinking about the microcode ROMs in an HP9810 (somethign that >> _I_ am working on, and those are most certainly 'hit' as soon as INIT is >> deaseserted and the microocde program counter starts to change. I prefer >> to think of general-purpose solutions (i.e. somethign that will replace >> every 256*4 ROM), rather than soemthing that works only in specific >> machines under specific circumstances. > >I must not be getting it, somehow. > >Why can't you just use a 45ns or 55ns 27c256 or 27c512 and swizzle the >pinout? These are around $3 per chip, and seem to meet the requirements. > > Vince > > Hi I did some searching on the web but never found any 27c256's faster than 70ns. I did find 27c512's and 27c010's at 45ns a couple of places. Dwight From stephane.tsacas at gmail.com Fri Jul 30 20:00:59 2004 From: stephane.tsacas at gmail.com (Stephane Tsacas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: OT-ish - converting hex output to binary on a Unix platform In-Reply-To: <1091227371.13915.134.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1091227371.13915.134.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: I guess you have hex digit as input, not prefixed by 0x (if they are, remove the string "0x" from the x= statement. Maybe that code might help : awk --non-decimal-data 'BEGIN {RS=" ";} {x="0x"$0; s=""; while (x > 0) { s=and(x,1)""s; x=rshift(x,1); } print s}' 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 a b c d e f as input will print : 0 1 10 11 100 101 110 111 1000 1001 1010 1011 1100 1101 1110 1111 you can put your own code after the x= statement I guess. Stephane On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 22:42:51 +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Fri, 2004-07-30 at 21:41, Tony Duell wrote: ... > That's what I've ended up with actually - at least for going from hex to > binary. Hexdump handles the other way around quite happily! ... > I couldn't figure out a good way of doing this with awk - I'm capable of > writing some awk to format output, but not to actual interpret data, do > calculations with it, and spit it out in a different format... ... From allain at panix.com Fri Jul 30 20:01:44 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: IBM 1092 References: Message-ID: <002801c47699$f3562740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I've recently heard of an archaic IBM device...a 10 x 15 > array of switches, essentially a Big Keyboard, with > customisable plastic overlay 'keycaps'. I have a device like this, taken from IIRC an NCR device ca. 1960. It is definitely a keyboard and it contains a matrix of something like (3x8=)24 by 24 switches, and it is coded, perhaps BCD. Underneath it is all hand strung wires. I can dust it off and send photographs if you're interested. > BTW, I'm *still* engaged in a probably-hopeless search for > a ...console to use with my 1800. 1401 I've heard of. What's an 1800? John A. From vrs at msn.com Fri Jul 30 20:21:35 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: a classiccmp electronics project? References: <200407310057.RAA24309@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <021701c4769c$b8d72620$6700a8c0@vrshome.msn.com> > >I must not be getting it, somehow. > > > >Why can't you just use a 45ns or 55ns 27c256 or 27c512 and swizzle the > >pinout? These are around $3 per chip, and seem to meet the requirements. > > > > Vince > > Hi > I did some searching on the web but never found any > 27c256's faster than 70ns. I did find 27c512's and 27c010's > at 45ns a couple of places. > Dwight (Looks again.) I found 27c256 and 27512 at 45ns at Digikey, and 45ns 27c512 at JameCo. Mouser also has the 45ns 27c256, but only has 55ns 27c512. (Are you in the states?) So, do these meet the requirements? (Seems like you could even burn several different images into the chips and use a DIP switch to select which image using the high address lines :-).) Also needn't worry about holding reset, or batteries going dead, or a big, complicated daughter board? (I don't know the specs for the bipolar ROMs being replaced. Someone earlier said they were 50-60ns. I am assuming they were also fairly small (logically, if not physically) compared to a 27c256.) Vince From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Jul 30 20:26:12 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: OT-ish - converting hex output to binary on a Unix platform Message-ID: <200407310126.SAA24325@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Stephane Tsacas" > >I guess you have hex digit as input, not prefixed by 0x (if they are, >remove the string "0x" from the x= statement. Maybe that code might >help : > >awk --non-decimal-data 'BEGIN {RS=" ";} {x="0x"$0; s=""; while (x > 0) > { s=and(x,1)""s; x=rshift(x,1); } print s}' > >0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 a b c d e f as input will print : >0 >1 >10 >11 >100 >101 >110 >111 >1000 >1001 >1010 >1011 >1100 >1101 >1110 >1111 > >you can put your own code after the x= statement I guess. >Stephane > ---snip--- Hi I'm not sure this is what he is looking for. I think he wants the hex number converted to a byte value not just printed in ascii as a binary value. Dwight From stephane.tsacas at gmail.com Fri Jul 30 21:16:09 2004 From: stephane.tsacas at gmail.com (Stephane Tsacas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: OT-ish - converting hex output to binary on a Unix platform In-Reply-To: <200407310126.SAA24325@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200407310126.SAA24325@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: awk --non-decimal-data 'BEGIN {RS=" "} {x="0x"$0; printf("%d ", x)}' 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F 10 11 12 1F 20 FC FD FE FF 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 31 32 252 253 254 255 better ? On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 18:26:12 -0700 (PDT), Dwight K. Elvey wrote: ... > I'm not sure this is what he is looking for. I think > he wants the hex number converted to a byte value > not just printed in ascii as a binary value. > Dwight > > From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Jul 30 21:47:50 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: Looking for old data information Message-ID: <200407310247.TAA24428@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Does anyone have any data books with the specs and signals for Rockwell's 4 bit processors that they made during the late 70's? These were in a funny flat pack called spider chips. Dwight From allain at panix.com Fri Jul 30 22:21:17 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: IBM 1092 References: <002801c47699$f3562740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <000f01c476ad$721adf40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I've recently heard of an archaic IBM device...a 10 x 15 > array of switches, essentially a Big Keyboard, with > customisable plastic overlay 'keycaps'. I have a device like this, taken from IIRC an NCR device ca. 1960. It is definitely a keyboard and it contains a matrix of something like (3x8=)24 by 24 switches, and it is coded, perhaps BCD. Underneath it is all hand strung wires. I can dust it off and send photographs if you're interested. > BTW, I'm *still* engaged in a probably-hopeless search for > a ...console to use with my 1800. 1401 I've heard of. What's an 1800? John A. From hansp at citem.org Sat Jul 31 06:00:09 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: IBM 1092 In-Reply-To: <002801c47699$f3562740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <002801c47699$f3562740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <410B7BB9.1030306@citem.org> >>I've recently heard of an archaic IBM device...a 10 x 15 >>array of switches, essentially a Big Keyboard, with >>customisable plastic overlay 'keycaps'. I have pictures and a short description of this and its cousin the IBM 1093, available as a 1Mb PDF at http://www.citem.org/IBM109x.pdf Enjoy, -- HansP From esharpe at uswest.net Sat Jul 31 06:15:40 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: **Re: IBM 1092** References: <002801c47699$f3562740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <410B7BB9.1030306@citem.org> Message-ID: <003a01c476ef$b6fcd220$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> what would be a great addition to things around here are the little dataset and the punchcard terminal in the picture with the keyboard thing... think we need to add both of those to our want to buy it soon list! ed sharpe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans B PUFAL" To: ; "On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 4:00 AM Subject: Re: IBM 1092 > >>I've recently heard of an archaic IBM device...a 10 x 15 > >>array of switches, essentially a Big Keyboard, with > >>customisable plastic overlay 'keycaps'. > > I have pictures and a short description of this and its cousin the IBM > 1093, available as a 1Mb PDF at http://www.citem.org/IBM109x.pdf > > Enjoy, > > -- HansP > > From stephane.tsacas at gmail.com Sat Jul 31 06:49:34 2004 From: stephane.tsacas at gmail.com (Stephane Tsacas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: OT-ish - converting hex output to binary on a Unix platform In-Reply-To: <200407310240.TAA24423@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200407310240.TAA24423@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: ahhhhh okay :) You mean if you have 23 as input (2 digits/ascii code of 2 and 3) the output should be the binary value 0x23 in one byte. Correct ? So input is ascii and output is a binary file, not ascii. awk --non-decimal-data 'BEGIN {RS=" "} {x="0x"$0; printf("%c", 0+x);}' | od -t x1 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F 10 11 1F 20 FA FB FC FD FE FF 0000000 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0a 0b 0c 0d 0e 0f 0000020 10 11 1f 20 fa fb fc fd fe ff 0000032 I use 'od' to do the binary to ascii conversion so I can print the result. But you can also redirect the output in a file and load it in emacs (in hexl-mode) to double check. Massaging of the value can be done before the printf as in : awk --non-decimal-data 'BEGIN {RS=" "} {x=$0; x++; x="0x"x; printf("%c", 0+x);}'|od -t x1 1 2 3 0000000 02 03 04 /s On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 19:40:51 -0700 (PDT), Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > >Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 04:16:09 +0200 > >From: "Stephane Tsacas" > >To: "Dwight K. Elvey" , "General Discussion: On-Topic and > Off-Topic Posts" > >Subject: Re: OT-ish - converting hex output to binary on a Unix platform > > > >awk --non-decimal-data 'BEGIN {RS=" "} {x="0x"$0; printf("%d ", x)}' > >0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F 10 11 12 1F 20 FC FD FE FF > >0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 31 32 252 253 254 255 > > > >better ? > > Hi > I think your still missing the point. Your printout is > all in ascii. If things were working as expected the > number '31' hex would display as '1' when printed. Many hex > numbers would not even display. It looks like the variable > is now correct but you need to write it as the byte value > to a file not convert it to the decimal printed > as ascii digits. 255 is the binary values that are 00110010 > 00110101 00110101. This is 3 values not the one value 11111111. > I think you are still confusing the byte with the displayed > value. > Am I making sense? > Dwight > > > > > > >On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 18:26:12 -0700 (PDT), Dwight K. Elvey > > > >wrote: > >... > >> I'm not sure this is what he is looking for. I think > >> he wants the hex number converted to a byte value > >> not just printed in ascii as a binary value. > >> Dwight > >> > >> > > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jul 31 09:02:36 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: a classiccmp electronics project? In-Reply-To: <020201c47695$138e15e0$6700a8c0@vrshome.msn.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040731100236.00875ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:26 PM 7/30/04 -0700, you wrote: >> OK. I was thinking about the microcode ROMs in an HP9810 (somethign that >> _I_ am working on, and those are most certainly 'hit' as soon as INIT is >> deaseserted and the microocde program counter starts to change. I prefer >> to think of general-purpose solutions (i.e. somethign that will replace >> every 256*4 ROM), rather than soemthing that works only in specific >> machines under specific circumstances. > >I must not be getting it, somehow. > >Why can't you just use a 45ns or 55ns 27c256 or 27c512 and swizzle the >pinout? These are around $3 per chip, and seem to meet the requirements. For one thing the parts used in the HP 1000 are 25 to 35 nS parts. Also the enable and other control lines are very different so you'd need a fair amount of glue chips and probably a buffer. Joe > > Vince > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jul 31 09:00:13 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: Lucas Electrics: RE: Commodore Pet ROM trouble... EPROM Substitutes... In-Reply-To: <200407302328.QAA24216@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040731100013.00875b00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:28 PM 7/30/04 -0700, you wrote: >>From: "Don Maslin" >> >> >> >>On Fri, 30 Jul 2004, Joe R. wrote: >> >>> At 04:41 PM 7/29/04 -0700, you wrote: >>> >>> That's called a 'Light Emitting EPROM' and it's an expensive and >>> >>> short-lived alternative to an LED. >>> > >>> >>Is this related to things like the SER (Smoke Emiting Resistor -- one >>> >>where the power rating is massivle exceeded), SEC (Sound Emitinf Capacitor >>> >>-- an electrolytic wired backwards), the Friode (a diode that's >>> >>open-circuit both ways), etc? >>> > >>> >Sounds like what Lucas Electric used to use. >>> >http://pw1.netcom.com/~krk/lotus/humor/lucasjokes.html >>> >>> ROFL! Only someone who's had a vehicle with Lucas electronics could >>> truely appreciate that! >>> >>> Joe (x-1952 MG TD) >> >>...or had experience with Magneti Morelli eqquipment! >> xxxxxxx >> Marelli >> >> - don >> > >Hi > The only problems I've ever had with Lucas was there fuel pumps, >ignition coils, distributors, alternators and fuse holders. >The Magneti Marelli stuff was actually a little better. I >never had issue with the alternators ( regulators were junk ) >but then I never had an Italian car with an electric fuel pump. > For switches, the worst I ever encountered were used in >Audi's. I have to agree with you there (x-VW Quantum made by Audi). I think the switches are the only part of the Lucas ssytem that I never had trouble with. One day I should sit down and write the (long) horror story of my trip from Florida to Biloxi Missisippi in a '63 MG Midget. Everything that could fail did, along a good amount of stuff that couldn't! If you ever want to see something REAL funny, try to by Lucas parts in Missisippi! :-/ Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jul 31 09:06:38 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: a classiccmp electronics project? In-Reply-To: <021701c4769c$b8d72620$6700a8c0@vrshome.msn.com> References: <200407310057.RAA24309@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040731100638.00875ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:21 PM 7/30/04 -0700, you wrote: >> >I must not be getting it, somehow. >> > >> >Why can't you just use a 45ns or 55ns 27c256 or 27c512 and swizzle the >> >pinout? These are around $3 per chip, and seem to meet the requirements. >> > >> > Vince >> >> Hi >> I did some searching on the web but never found any >> 27c256's faster than 70ns. I did find 27c512's and 27c010's >> at 45ns a couple of places. >> Dwight > >(Looks again.) I found 27c256 and 27512 at 45ns at Digikey, and 45ns 27c512 >at JameCo. Mouser also has the 45ns 27c256, but only has 55ns 27c512. (Are >you in the states?) > >So, do these meet the requirements? (Seems like you could even burn several >different images into the chips and use a DIP switch to select which image >using the high address lines :-).) > >Also needn't worry about holding reset, or batteries going dead, or a big, >complicated daughter board? > >(I don't know the specs for the bipolar ROMs being replaced. Someone >earlier said they were 50-60ns. I am assuming they were also fairly small >(logically, if not physically) compared to a 27c256.) The ones in the HP 1000 are 4 x 256 and are sixteen or eighteen (I forget which) pin .3" wide DIPs. Al has pins out for some of the different BiPolar PROMs on his site. I think they're under the games machines section. There's no room for a duaghterboard to mount on the HP 1000 card. You'd have to mount it elsewhere and cable over to it. Joe > > Vince > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jul 31 09:09:56 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: Cirris 1000 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040730103347.00931160@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040731100956.00875ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:24 AM 7/30/04 -0700, Sellam wrote: >On Fri, 30 Jul 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> At 12:04 AM 7/30/04 +0100, Lee wrote: >> >> Holy moley! Speaking of word usage, I sure hope there's nobody from >> >> Wales on this list. >> > >> >Why should we be offended? Just 'cos Joe can't spell? 8^)= >> >> Holy smokes! (Can I say that?) Someone that hasn't found something to >> gripe about! :-) > >You just offended smokers and all the people from the Isle of Smokes. It was bound to happen :-) Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jul 31 09:13:18 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: Looking for old data information In-Reply-To: <200407310247.TAA24428@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040731101318.00878200@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I didn't know Rockwell made any processors like that. But I have a lot of boards with spider packs on them. Can you list some of the part numbers? Joe- At 07:47 PM 7/30/04 -0700, you wrote: >Hi > Does anyone have any data books with the specs >and signals for Rockwell's 4 bit processors that >they made during the late 70's? These were in a >funny flat pack called spider chips. >Dwight > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jul 31 09:18:43 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: Whirlwind: Re: First computer with real-time clock? In-Reply-To: <20040730164912.024B23C88@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040731101843.008a7400@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> There are some intersting discussions about Whirlwind in the book THE INVENTION THAT CHANGED THE WORLD: HOW A SMALL GROUP OF RADAR PIONEERS WON THE SECOND WORLD WAR AND LAUNCHED A TECHNOLOGICAL REVOLUTION. I HIGHLY recommend the book. There is a lot of interesting stuff in it besides the Whirlwind story. Joe At 09:49 AM 7/30/04 -0700, you wrote: > >Kent C. Redmond and Thomas M. Smith, Project Whirlwind: The History of a >Pioneer Computer, Bedford, MA: Digital Press, 1980. ISBN: 0932376096 > >The book is pretty light on techical information on the computer, however. > >I'm hoping there is some meater info on Whirlwind buried in the CHM stacks. > > From pcw at mesanet.com Sat Jul 31 11:13:53 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: Looking for old data information In-Reply-To: <200407310247.TAA24428@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Jul 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi > Does anyone have any data books with the specs > and signals for Rockwell's 4 bit processors that > they made during the late 70's? These were in a > funny flat pack called spider chips. > Dwight > > If those are PPS-4s, they were used in some early pinball machines, you might google for pinball PPS-4, maybe there is a schematic available... Peter Wallace From vrs at msn.com Sat Jul 31 13:17:58 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: a classiccmp electronics project? References: <200407310057.RAA24309@clulw009.amd.com> <3.0.6.32.20040731100638.00875ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <008401c4772a$b62ab340$6700a8c0@vrshome.msn.com> From: "Joe R." > For one thing the parts used in the HP 1000 are 25 to 35 nS parts. Also > the enable and other control lines are very different so you'd need a fair > amount of glue chips and probably a buffer. > >(I don't know the specs for the bipolar ROMs being replaced. Someone > >earlier said they were 50-60ns. I am assuming they were also fairly small > >(logically, if not physically) compared to a 27c256.) > > The ones in the HP 1000 are 4 x 256 and are sixteen or eighteen (I > forget which) pin .3" wide DIPs. Al has pins out for some of the different > BiPolar PROMs on his site. I think they're under the games machines > section. OK, that helps a lot to get me on the same page. Can you use the 74S571? Those appear to still be available from JameCo (part #48910) at 35ns address-to-data, 25ns enable-to-data. They are 512x4 16 pin DIPs. $5.69 qty 1, $5.49 qty 10. Haven't found them elsewhere, though. Not knowing what I am looking for, I wasn't able to find the pinouts on Al's site, however. Can you provide a pointer or at least a part number? > There's no room for a duaghterboard to mount on the HP 1000 card. > You'd have to mount it elsewhere and cable over to it. Wouldn't that cost you a few nanoseconds just in the cabling? ISTR cable delays measured in ns/ft. Thanks! Vince From dfnr2 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 31 13:32:48 2004 From: dfnr2 at yahoo.com (Dave) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: OT-ish - converting hex output to binary on a Unix platform In-Reply-To: <1091191912.13915.97.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040731183248.42462.qmail@web50504.mail.yahoo.com> Look as srecord ( http://srecord.sourceforge.net ). It's a powerful command-line tool for converting and filtering object files in a large number of formats. It can easily convert between various hex formats and binary. I think it's a must-have program. Dave --- Jules Richardson wrote: > > Silly question, but maybe someone here's found a > nice way of doing this > using standard Unix tools... > > I have a few files in hex format (actually ROM > dumps) and want to > convert them to binary. Sort of the reverse of the > hexdump utility. I'm > not aware of a standard (and probably on-topic!) > Unix util to do this, > but maybe someone knows if there is one, or a handy > way of doing this > using some of the standard text-processing utils > that Unix has... > > (files are in the format of 16 pairs of uppercase > hex digits per line, > with a trailing space after every pair - even the > last one on a line) > > I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that I need to > remember some C > again - and I've only just finished emptying my > brain of it after the > last time I needed to code in it a couple of months > ago :-) > > cheers > > Jules > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From geoffreythomas at onetel.com Wed Jul 28 13:56:23 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.com (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: Fw: Insect Conductivity - language? Message-ID: <00c901c474d4$aab9ab40$0200a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoffrey Thomas" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 8:36 PM Subject: Re: Insect Conductivity - language? > Me , I want to know what the ants said in reply. Translation anyone - > looking for a babel fish......... > I was up on the scaffolding outside my house today (we're having some > cladding fitted ) fitting up my uhf aerial in a higher position when a > squadron of flying ants descended on everything - from the park at the back > of the house. I'm afraid I outdid Sellam , and ,statistically speaking , you > wouldn't expect that many ants to be illegitimate. They wouldn't go away so > I had to come inside , it's a bit dangerous when you're up high and ants are > exploring every part of your anatomy ; I've just had a shower and two came > out of my hair- silly little buggers. > What's this got to do with fucking computers anyway ? ................... > Geoff. > Having decided to enter the debate I thought I might try out a bit of allusion alongside an expletive - as above . I must say that I find it distinctly uncomfortable to see the last line in print. I think I belong to the school that believes that swearing is an art form ( not ark B ) and if it is used indiscriminately it loses it's impact. I think this is true of most things in life . I find that the allusion is a lot funnier as , obviously, it leaves the reader to visualise the word and the "scene" for him/her/self. (P.C.)This is a bit like radio as opposed to tv , I suppose. Swearing , in a conversational context, is probably easier to get away with as you have inflexion, intonation etc. to convey meaning and any humour. This is why it looks so bad in print , I think. I thought the beginning of " Four weddings and a funeral " was poor in this respect -poor acting?- but perhaps it's a generation gap effect. I certainly have no objections to anyone writing such in an email , I merely express my own mild discomfort at seeing my own word in print. I don't believe in any form of organised religion with a deity , in case anyone is wondering. The only person I know who has a magic wand is Sooty ! Izzy Wizzy ..................... Geoff. From geoffreythomas at onetel.com Wed Jul 28 14:36:20 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.com (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: Cirris 1000 References: <3.0.6.32.20040727205617.00b46680@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <012f01c474da$3cb369a0$0200a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 1:56 AM Subject: Re: Cirris 1000 > Jim, > > Yes I still have it. The winnng bidder welshed out and never paid for it. > Joe > I'm not particularly sensitive in these matters , but I do object to your use of the term "welsh" , meaning to renege on a bet I am told. This is old English propaganda , and I'm told that Bill Clinton had to apologise for it's use in America. Should you persist , I shall have no hesitation in initiating the use of the verb to " American " - i.e. to invade or destabilise a foreign country on false premises or purely for the advancement of American capital interests . Geoff. From geoffreythomas at onetel.com Wed Jul 28 15:16:27 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.com (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's References: <0407281956.AA03742@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <01c501c474df$e1b23c60$0200a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Sokolov" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 8:56 PM Subject: Re: Article on data rot on CD's > Paul Koning wrote: > > > Teo> .... I would also like to know what > > Teo> affect printable adhesive labels have on media... > > > > I have a simpler rule for those: "just say NO". > > So how is one supposed to label recorded CDs then? There needs to > be some way to identify which CD-R contains what... > > MS Surely you can print on the top of modern cd/dvd's with either a felt tip pen or a printer with a cd carriage ? Geoff. From JMeyer101 at aol.com Wed Jul 28 16:43:59 2004 From: JMeyer101 at aol.com (JMeyer101@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: Intellec 4 Message-ID: <66EA0807.6A8D921C.0233EB56@aol.com> I recently acquired a few older computers. One of the units is a working MCS Intellec 4. Unfortunately, I have no knowledge of how to program this computer or what accessories can be used with it. Can anyone help me out? Thanks, Jeff From m1dlg at soulwax.co.uk Wed Jul 28 18:02:00 2004 From: m1dlg at soulwax.co.uk (Dennis Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:38 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's In-Reply-To: <41082603.90104@mdrconsult.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040728121126.009b9530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <10407281922.ZM28583@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <4107FCFD.6030205@mdrconsult.com> <16647.65371.706000.557188@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4108090D.6070900@mdrconsult.com> <014701c474e2$d1c472c0$0500fea9@game> <410817B5.2050204@mdrconsult.com> <019b01c474ec$dc17d5f0$0500fea9@game> <41082603.90104@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <41083068.9020204@soulwax.co.uk> it frustrates me to see the company i work for still reliant on nightly backups (about 1.5gb) of sales data on obsolite drives and tapes (last mass made around 15yrs ago!) and refusing to change type to a newer reliable medium because of cost, dispite the cost of replacing them is less than the cost of one call out for each crash caused by fault hardware - this amounts to several hundreds ??? each time due to lost data, and the cost of lost sales while engineers (contracted only) arrive to reboot and verify data on each tape, this system is over 25 yrs old and it's been patched up so many times it starting to look like a microshafting took place. it's so old one of the terminals in one store was opened to find some document dated 1980 slid inside and was the cause of the extra heat as it had stopped the fan from working and the extra dust had just caused it give up! we have major crashes on average once every 3 or 4 months and minor ones every 2 or 3 weeks. it's a sorry state when the accountant with his abacus can run EVERY part of the company! i feel it should be a legal requirement to have data backups and off-site backups too, but not until i invest in that little data storage company....... DJ M1DLG Doc Shipley wrote: > Teo Zenios wrote: > >> Shouldn't he have a permanent backup tape every so often in the >> cycle? If >> you screw up or delete a file and don't notice it quickly it will get >> lost >> in the rotating cycle. The major problem I see companies forgetting is >> offsite storage of backups in case of fire or something like that. Most >> companies would not survive a fire because their financial backups >> would be >> gone. > > > Just try to convince the owner of a struggling small business that > the money poured down that drain is well-spent. Yes, he should be > doing a permanent archive at least monthly, and yes, you should rotate > tapes *out* after X reads or writes. Value of X depends on the media > type, and as far as I'm concerned, Iomega's early Travan tapes were > good for one write, and *possibly* one read. > > He was doing a permanent archive every 6 months "or so". He > couldn't be bothered to buy a new set of 6-8 tapes every month for the > full backup, and I'm sure he was having trouble finding them. > > > My company is a Tivoli reseller and service partner, and TSM is my > boss's specialty. I've heard every reason in the book for scrimping > on data protection, and they all boil down to the same thing. > Non-techie management honestly believes that if all their IT people > are doing their jobs, and all their expensive storage toys are doing > _their_ jobs, and all that shiney expensive software is doing _its_ > job, tape backups are expensive, obsolete, and useless. > > To make things much worse, there are any number of little > garage-based companies building cheap NAS/SAN solutions, and even more > storage sales folk from reputable companies, who will tell a VP > exactly that - that magnetic media is dead. Simply because they get > commission selling disk space, not tape. > > I'm all in favor of disk-based backups, mirrors, snapshots, backups > to CD-R/DVD-R, etc. They're cheap, simple, and very useful. They > just don't, can't, and never will do the whole job. > > > I'll shut up now. > > Doc > > From gibbinsrobert at hotmail.com Wed Jul 28 23:12:27 2004 From: gibbinsrobert at hotmail.com (Robert Gibbins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: Expressions of Interest for Old Microbee Computer Equipment Message-ID: Hi all: My name is Robert Gibbins and I live in Melbourne, Australia. For sometime, my wife has been at me to clear out all the old Microbee computer equipment, software and documentation in our garage. I collected it all in the early 90s and have not used for many years. It is now with some real nostalgic reluctance that I try to find an appropriate home or homes for it all. Microbee was our first home computer and finding a new home has got to be better than throwing it all in the rubbish bin; is it? I am writing to you because you have displayed some interest as I trawled the Internet in old Microbee Computers and I am interested in receiving expressions of interest for it. But what I finally do get rid of will be dependent on the responses and of course any final offers I receive. By-the-way, any postage and handling charges will be your responsibility. Whilst cleaning out the Microbees I cataloged most of what I found. I may have missed listing some small items such as spare parts and individual cables etc. If you are interested please read the attachment with this email which is saved in Microsoft Word format. Some photos are included. By-the-way, OpenOffice.org was used to write the attachment. So, if you are at all interested please contact me by email at gibbinsrobert@hotmail.com. If you know someone else that could also be interested in old Microbee equipment please feel free to forward this email to them. Thank you Robert _________________________________________________________________ SEEK: Now with over 50,000 dream jobs! Click here: http://ninemsn.seek.com.au?hotmail From dehogg at ksu.edu Thu Jul 29 10:25:09 2004 From: dehogg at ksu.edu (dehogg@ksu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: Sanyo MBC 550 Message-ID: <4108D085.21564.95E71F@localhost> Just ran across the thread looking for info on the Sanyo MBC 550/555. I have a complete system that started out as the original 550 (had one 360 drive). I upgraded it to the 555 by adding the second drive, then upgraded to the double sided 800k drives. Installed more memory by piggy backing the memory chips and modifiying the power supply current limit sensor, added the PC video display card to make it more compatible with IBM type programs. Total of 512k memory. It came with MSDos 2.11 for Sanyo, Wordstar, Calcstar, DataStar, Pcwrite. It will run lotus 123 vs1.1. I have upgraded the Wordstar to the Pro version. I also have a multitude of "freeware" software that will run on it. I also subscribed to the Magazine that supported the unit and I have all of the copies that were issued relating to the 555. I used the monochrome monitor at first but shifted to using a Panasonic color monitor that had a pc input and ntsc input so I could use an external tuner and listen to tv while doing computer stuff and switch to the video if something sounded interesting. I also have the schematic diagram for the system. I used a Star Micronics dot matrix printer at the time. Fun time and learning experience. Donald E. Hogg Associate Director/Engineering Educational Communications Center Kansas State University 128 Bob Dole Hall Manhattan, Kansas 66506-6902 Voice==785.532.3141 Fax==785.532.7355 Email: dehogg@k-state.edu From jdbryan at acm.org Thu Jul 29 10:34:39 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: J. David.... (HP roms) In-Reply-To: <01cc01c474d4$847586c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200407291534.i6TFYejs016763@mail.bcpl.net> On 28 Jul 2004 at 13:55, Jay West wrote: > > No, they're DMS. [...] > > Ok, so the 13306 numbers I mentioned are DMS. My comment was addressed specifically to your "FFP option 100" statement, not the ROM numbers. The "FFP option 100" adds the DMS ROMs to the FFP ROMs. > And DMS is required for FFP? Odd. I'm going to go way out on a limb here, as I am far more familiar with the M-series than the E-series, but in looking over the ROM history, it appears that prior to the consolidation, FFP took six 1K ROMs (1 module) and three 4K ROMs (2 modules) on the Firmware Accessory Board (FAB). DMS took six 1K ROMs (1 module) on the FAB too. The FAB had only twelve 1K ROM sockets, so a system with FFP and DMS would fully populate the FAB's 1K area. Six 1K ROMs provided one microcode module (256 words), and three 4K ROMs provided two modules. Given that FFP and DMS together comprised four modules, it appears that they were consolidated into six 4K ROMs. The FAB had eighteen 4K sockets, so by consolidating the ROMs, much of the FAB space was freed for user microprograms. Prior to the consolidation, FFP used 1K ROMs 13306-80013 through 80018 (one module) and 4K ROMs 5090-0589 through 0591 (two modules). DMS used 1K ROMs 13307-80027 through 80032 (one module). After the consolidation, the original FFP 4K ROMs were used, and a new set of three 4K ROMs (13307-80033 through 80035) were added. This latter set combined the two single modules from the FFP and DMS that had been present in 1K ROMs. So in other words, when you ordered DMS by itself, you received three 4K ROMs that contained the single DMS module plus one of the three FFP modules. The latter was useless without the other two FFP modules, of course. When you ordered FFP by itself, you received three 4K ROMs that contained two of the three FFP modules. If you already had the three 4K DMS ROMs installed in your machine from an earlier purchase, then the third FFP module would already be present, and your combined FFP/DMS setup would work. But if you didn't have DMS, then you'd be missing the third FFP module, and that's what "FFP option 100" added. Because of the consolidation, it also added the DMS microcode, but presumably without the Memory Expansion Module (MEM) board that was part of the DMS package, the DMS microcode wouldn't do you any good, so it came along relatively "free." > > "If the Fast FORTRAN Processor is ordered for a machine which does > > not have the 13307B Dynamic Mapping Instructions, 13306B option 100 > > must be ordered; the 13307B contains part of the FFP." > > I thought the manual said "does not have the...DMS... 13307B option > 100 must be ordered..." (not 13306B). No, it's 13306B, because the extra ROMs are needed when FFP is ordered for a machine that doesn't have the 4K DMS ROMs installed, so it's an FFP option. > I was thinking the 13306B was strictly DMS based on the above and > 13307B was strictly FFP. In the "A" versions of those products, it was...up until the ROM consolidation. That may have been the point when A became B -- an earlier ordering guide from August 1978 lists only the 1K + 4K ROM set for the 13306A FFP and only the 1K ROM set for the 13307A. > I thought we established the 13306 numbers were DMS, not 13307-80027 > through 80032. No, sorry, as noted in my first comment, I was addressing just the ordering option, not the ROM numbers. 13306 ROMs are (part of) FFP. > Now I'm really confused. The 2100A/S is so much simpler :) I hazard the guess that the consolidation was done to free up 1K space on the FAB for user microprograms, and also because the later-introduced and preferred Firmware Expansion Module (FEM) card took only 4K and 8K ROMs. I trust that it's all clear now. ;-) -- Dave From mbg at theworld.com Thu Jul 29 12:13:58 2004 From: mbg at theworld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? References: <4108716D.4AEAB546@rain.org> Message-ID: <200407291713.NAA2090018@shell.TheWorld.com> >If the answer is: a device that maintains the time of day independent >of the computer power, the oldest I know of is the DEC KW11-W (?not >sure about the suffix). I don't remember when that came out, but it >probably predates microcomputers. It wasn't a popular option. As I mentioned in another post, I think it was the KW11-C, and was a unibus-only option. There was a KWV11-C, but I don't know if they were associated. Early 80s. BTW - this board also had batteries, so the clock would maintain time across system power cycles (it charged the batteries when the mains were on) >Another example, from roughly the same era, is the TOY clock in the >Pro-350. That's a microcomputer chip, so presumably some PC type >system offered it as well. (That may apply to the KW11-W as well... I >don't know.) It was separate from the actual CPU chip... it might have been something like a Dallas chip, so probably someone else was using it as well. Mid 80s. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL,ST| email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01824 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at theworld.com Thu Jul 29 12:10:09 2004 From: mbg at theworld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? Message-ID: <200407291710.NAA2086598@shell.TheWorld.com> >>I'm thinking farther back. Was there any mini or mainframe that had a >>real-time clock built in or as an add-on option? >It's come up in some litigation. The actual issue at hand is that >someone was able to overturn a patent by claiming the IBM 650 had a >real-time clock built in. They "proved" this by submitting as evidence a >printout that had the date printed on it(!) I've checked the IBM 650 >Manual of Operation and it makes no mention whatsoever of a real-time >clock. I pretty much figured it wouldn't but I of course had to do due >diligence. >But it made me wonder: what was the first computer to have a built-in >real-time clock? The 11/93,94 has built-in date/time. But that was end of 80s, early 90s. Prior to that, the Pro series had the TOY (time of year) clock built in. That was in the mid-80s. Prior to that, at least with Unibus PDP-11s, CSS (Computer Special Systems, DEC Nashua) came up with the KW11-C, a clock/calendar board which, from the drawings I have, was supposed to eventually be able to get its date/time from the WWVB signal. Otherwise it could be programmed with current date/time as well as date/time for a future event which would cause an interrupt. I have a programming manual for it somewhere (in my proverbial deep storage). This was early 80s. I seem to remember a KWV11-C, for qbus -11s, but I don't know what its features were. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mbg at theworld.com Thu Jul 29 12:21:26 2004 From: mbg at theworld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: First computer with real-time clock? Message-ID: <200407291721.NAA2060550@shell.TheWorld.com> >Does anyone know what was the first computer to have a built-in real-time >clock? Somewhat associated -- when I was doing some work with DSSI disks at DEC, I found that the actual disk units (HDA and electronics) maintained date and time and kept track of power cycle and other events. I was never able to confirm whether the disk drives were Y2K compliant. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL,ST| email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01824 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From jdbryan at acm.org Thu Jul 29 12:53:46 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: More HP microcode & loader rom detective work In-Reply-To: <200407281658.i6SGw8ak021887@mail.bcpl.net> References: <005a01c473e6$da721b40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200407291753.i6THrl2R002643@mail.bcpl.net> On 28 Jul 2004 at 12:58, I wrote: > I'll check my March 1977 HP Journal that introduces the E-series, but > as far as I know, all MX machines had floating point routines built in. Page 23 of that issue says under "Specifications:" "BASE SET INSTRUCTIONS: 128 standard instructions including [...] high-speed floating point." -- Dave From paulrsm at buckeye-express.com Fri Jul 30 12:05:58 2004 From: paulrsm at buckeye-express.com (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: OT-ish - converting hex output to binary on a Unix platform Message-ID: <380-2200475301755825@buckeye-express.com> I use MS-DOS, not Unix, and I always solve the problem of converting a hex dump to a binary file using two standard tools: a text editor and an assembler. > (files are in the format of 16 pairs > of uppercase hex digits per line, > with a trailing space after every > pair - even the last one on a line) So a sample line might be "00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F " Adjust the following steps for your assembler. Delete trailing spaces, convert every space to ",$", and add " DB $" to the beginning of every line: " DB $00,$01,$02,$03,$04,$05,$06,$07,$08,$09,$0A,$0B,$0C,$0D,$0E,$0F" Add any required directives (ORG, END, etc.) and assemble. -- Paul Monroe, Michigan USA From JMeyer101 at aol.com Fri Jul 30 15:10:49 2004 From: JMeyer101 at aol.com (JMeyer101@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific Challenger 4P/MF Message-ID: <543AF378.33B55739.0233EB56@aol.com> Hello all, Does anyone have any information or instructions on how to connect the 4P to a display? I have the computer but I'm not able to connect it to anything. There are 6 what appears to be RCA type plugs on the back, 2 wide by 3 tall, with + over one column and - over the other. What do I need to do to get this thing working? I also have an Intellec 4 that I am trying to find accessories and information for. Thanks, Jeff From dj.taylor at starpower.net Fri Jul 30 18:28:01 2004 From: dj.taylor at starpower.net (Douglas Taylor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: Help with SMS Unibus controller In-Reply-To: <41087696.2020200@mdrconsult.com> References: <41087696.2020200@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.0.20040730192317.01b434f0@pop.starpower.net> I have an SMS dual 8 inch floppy unit, model FWT05, but I don't have the SMS controller. This unit seems to have two Shugart 801's and some kind of interface board inside. Connection is thru the back via a 40 pin cable. I think this unit does the disk formatting and talks to the PDP11 through a simple interface card like the one you have. I just got this off ebay but it may be what you are looking for. I could take some pictures and post them, there are some SMS manuals on bitsavers.org, BTW. Doug At 12:01 AM 7/29/2004, you wrote: > The model number is FD1100i, with a 50-pin Berg header and 3 34-pin > headers. Found it in a full-height PDP-11/04. > > Pics of the SMS board and the 11/04 at http://www.docsbox.net/11-03/ > > Extreme hi-res scan (1.3MB jpeg) of the SMS board at: > > http://www.docsbox.net/11-03/FD1100i.jpg > > Out of consideration for low-bandwidth viewers, the hi-res scan is > *not* included in the album. You'll need to go there explicitly. > > Docs would be nice. > > > Doc From waisun.chia at hp.com Sat Jul 31 04:19:37 2004 From: waisun.chia at hp.com (Wai-Sun Chia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: PDP-11/04 issues In-Reply-To: <4109794B.9060402@mdrconsult.com> References: <4109794B.9060402@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <410B6429.8020304@hp.com> Doc Shipley wrote: > I have a new-to-me 11/04 in the kitchen, and I'm having some very odd > problems with it. > > Slot 1 - M7263 11/04 CPU > Slot 2 - empty Oops! Grant is gone.. You need to have a G727 or a G7273 in slot 2. > Slot 3, AB - M9301-YA > Slot 3, c-F M7859 KY11-LB Console interface > Slot 4, C-F M7856 SLU, switched for 9600bps, 8N1, 20mA C.L. console > Slot 5-6 - G657/H228-B 64KW core assy. Is there a G727 in slot 6? > Yes, this is my two weeks at home between travels, my wife is visiting > her mom in New England, and I'm catching up on Geek Time. There are 3 > PDP-11s, a new-to-me IBM 9348-012 9-track tabletop, several terminals, > laptops, and monitors, and an Amiga A3000 in the dining room right now. Wow! I envy you. I don't get as much geek time as I like.. Wishing my in-laws were further (like India or Africa).. :-) /wai-sun From bill_mcdermith at mcdermith.net Sat Jul 31 11:15:45 2004 From: bill_mcdermith at mcdermith.net (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: PDP 11/23 Plus In-Reply-To: <001601c47682$bdd119c0$0200000a@xeon> References: <001601c47682$bdd119c0$0200000a@xeon> Message-ID: <410BC5B1.6090403@mcdermith.net> Bill Machacek wrote: > I just located a PDP 11/23 Plus that is going to be scrapped soon if no one is interested in it. I told the owners that I would check to see if there was any interest in the unit from a chat site I am part of. This is a rack mounted unit with 2 RL02 drives and several disks for the RL02 units also in the rack. It also has the air conditioning attached to the back of the rack. It is sitting outside (come rain or shine) so it may be vandalized at some point in time or the weather may get to it. The owners are interested in getting rid of it, but of course want a payment of some amount. They did not give me a number of what they wanted for it. > Is there any interest here on the board? I can go back and get more information on the item if needed. Just let me know what you'd like to know about it. I was going to get the SN, but couldn't find it. > I'm willing to work with anyone who is interested..... > > Bill Machacek > Colo. Springs, CO If it is in or near Colorado Springs I would be interested in it... Bill McDermith From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Jul 31 13:55:37 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: a classiccmp electronics project? In-Reply-To: <008401c4772a$b62ab340$6700a8c0@vrshome.msn.com> References: <200407310057.RAA24309@clulw009.amd.com> <3.0.6.32.20040731100638.00875ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <008401c4772a$b62ab340$6700a8c0@vrshome.msn.com> Message-ID: <200407311858.OAA15795@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> There's no room for a duaghterboard to mount on the HP 1000 card. >> You'd have to mount it elsewhere and cable over to it. > Wouldn't that cost you a few nanoseconds just in the cabling? ISTR > cable delays measured in ns/ft. No matter what you use for communication, it'll cost you; the speed of light is within a couple of percent of one foot per nanosecond, so you're not going to do much better than that. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From allain at panix.com Sat Jul 31 14:52:41 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's References: <0407281956.AA03742@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <01c501c474df$e1b23c60$0200a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: <003801c47737$f0c27940$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Surely you can print on the top of modern cd/dvd's with either a > felt tip pen or a printer with a cd carriage ? Talk on this forum has been that the ink could migrate through the CD and help ?oxidize the data layer, over time. John A. From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Sat Jul 31 15:31:11 2004 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific Challenger 4P/MF In-Reply-To: <543AF378.33B55739.0233EB56@aol.com> Message-ID: > Does anyone have any information or instructions on how to > connect the 4P to a display? I have the computer but I'm not > able to connect it to anything. There are 6 what appears to be > RCA type plugs on the back, 2 wide by 3 tall, with + over one > column and - over the other. What do I need to do to get this > thing working? Standard composite out (color) on the top left RCA jack, provided that nobody has hacked it. You can connect this to a TV set, just like you would a VCR. The pot controls the color balance. If all is well, it will power up to a screen full of garbage characters. Pressing the "BREAK" key will clear the screen and provide a prompt... probably "D/H/M?". Pressing "D" (note that "SHIFT LOCK" must be in the depressed state) will cause it to attempt to boot from the floppy (you may hear the heads seek). If you get this far, I can make you a couple of boot diskettes with various demo programs on them. "M" will get you into an almost useless monitor program that will allow you to examine and set memory values in hex. I'm currently troubleshooting a bug in my C4Pmf, so if you get to needing the diskettes too quickly you might have to wait on me. In all likelihood, at the very least you will need to open the box up and reseat the cards on the "fatherboard" as the tinned pins are notorious for oxidizing, resulting in poor contacts. Just put the machine on its back and remove the six screws on the bottom... the wooden side panels with the bottom metal plate should just lift off. Hope this helps, Bill Sudbrink From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jul 31 15:34:17 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: Fw: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: <00c901c474d4$aab9ab40$0200a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Geoffrey Thomas wrote: > Having decided to enter the debate I thought I might try out a bit of > allusion alongside an expletive - as above . I must say that I find it > distinctly uncomfortable to see the last line in print. I think I belong to > the school that believes that swearing is an art form ( not ark B ) and if > it is used indiscriminately it loses it's impact. Um, your analogy breaks down rather quickly and catastrophically. Art in the form of painting, poetry, photography, scultpure, etc., gets produced every day which is patently bad (and in some cases offensive) yet each form of art not only survives but thrives today. A finely worded cuss is an art. Some people are good at it,the majority are mediocre. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jul 31 15:35:46 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: OT stupid Welsh and Americans (was Re: Cirris 1000) In-Reply-To: <012f01c474da$3cb369a0$0200a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Geoffrey Thomas wrote: > Should you persist , I shall have no hesitation in initiating the use of the > verb to " American " - i.e. to invade or destabilise a foreign country on > false premises or purely for the advancement of American capital interests . I'm not sure how anyone can be offended by something that rings true. Well, excepting hypocrites of course. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Sat Jul 31 15:59:03 2004 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific Challenger 4P/MF In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I wrote earlier: > > Does anyone have any information or instructions on how to > > connect the 4P to a display? I have the computer but I'm not > > able to connect it to anything. There are 6 what appears to be > > RCA type plugs on the back, 2 wide by 3 tall, with + over one > > column and - over the other. What do I need to do to get this > > thing working? > > Standard composite out (color) on the top left RCA jack, provided > that nobody has hacked it. You can connect this to a TV set, just > like you would a VCR. The pot controls the color balance. If all > is well, it will power up to a screen full of garbage characters. > Pressing the "BREAK" key will clear the screen and provide a prompt... > probably "D/H/M?". Pressing "D" (note that "SHIFT LOCK" must be in the > depressed state) will cause it to attempt to boot from the floppy (you > may hear the heads seek). If you get this far, I can make you a couple > of boot diskettes with various demo programs on them. "M" will get > you into an almost useless monitor program that will allow you to > examine and set memory values in hex. I'm currently troubleshooting > a bug in my C4Pmf, so if you get to needing the diskettes too quickly > you might have to wait on me. In all likelihood, at the very least > you will need to open the box up and reseat the cards on the > "fatherboard" as the tinned pins are notorious for oxidizing, resulting > in poor contacts. Just put the machine on its back and remove the > six screws on the bottom... the wooden side panels with the bottom > metal plate should just lift off. Oh! There may be a ground wire attaching the upper metal case to the lower metal case. Watch for it. Hope this helps, Bill Sudbrink From dwight.elvey at amd.com Sat Jul 31 15:59:16 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: Intellec 4 Message-ID: <200407312059.NAA25106@clulw009.amd.com> >From: JMeyer101@aol.com > >I recently acquired a few older computers. One of the units is a working MCS Intellec 4. Unfortunately, I have no knowledge of how to program this computer or what accessories can be used with it. Can anyone help me out? > >Thanks, > >Jeff > Hi Jeff As I recall, there wasn't any OS or anything for these. They were primarily used to run experimental code on or blow EPROMs for some other machine. They usually had enough ROM in them to do things like take data from a paper tape reader and program proms. They may have had some form of monitor code as well. They usually had cards with hardware to emulate the 4001 I/O functions so that one could debug their code befor commiting to the mask ROM in the 4001's. Joe R. might have more info on this machine. It is a collectors item for sure. I do have some manuals for the MCS-4 series parts that can help and if you can dump the EPROMs in the machine, I can disassemble them for you. The EPROMs are most likely 1702A's. These do require some non-standard voltages. One can often make up an adapter with an external supply to read these as though they were 2716 or something on a standard EPROM programmer. I am setup to read and write 1702A's on my 4004 machine. ( not an Intellec-4 ). Although, it doesn't talk about the Intellec-4, the manual I have does sedcribe the 4004. I also have a newer manual that describe the 4040 as well. I just sent a copy of the older manual off to one of the other follows and it cost about $13 to mack copies and send it to him( as I recall ). Dwight From dwight.elvey at amd.com Sat Jul 31 16:00:45 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: OT-ish - converting hex output to binary on a Unix platform Message-ID: <200407312100.OAA25110@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Stephane Tsacas" > >ahhhhh okay :) >You mean if you have 23 as input (2 digits/ascii code of 2 and 3) the >output should be the binary value 0x23 in one byte. Correct ? >So input is ascii and output is a binary file, not ascii. Hi Stephane Now you got it. Dwight > >awk --non-decimal-data 'BEGIN {RS=" "} {x="0x"$0; printf("%c", 0+x);}' | >od -t x1 >0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F 10 11 1F 20 FA FB FC FD FE FF >0000000 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0a 0b 0c 0d 0e 0f >0000020 10 11 1f 20 fa fb fc fd fe ff >0000032 > >I use 'od' to do the binary to ascii conversion so I can print the >result. But you can also redirect the output in a file and load it in >emacs (in hexl-mode) to double check. >Massaging of the value can be done before the printf as in : >awk --non-decimal-data 'BEGIN {RS=" "} {x=$0; x++; x="0x"x; >printf("%c", 0+x);}'|od -t x1 >1 2 3 >0000000 02 03 04 > >/s >On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 19:40:51 -0700 (PDT), Dwight K. Elvey > wrote: >> >> >Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 04:16:09 +0200 >> >From: "Stephane Tsacas" >> >To: "Dwight K. Elvey" , "General Discussion: On-Topic and >> Off-Topic Posts" >> >Subject: Re: OT-ish - converting hex output to binary on a Unix platform >> > >> >awk --non-decimal-data 'BEGIN {RS=" "} {x="0x"$0; printf("%d ", x)}' >> >0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F 10 11 12 1F 20 FC FD FE FF >> >0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 31 32 252 253 254 255 >> > >> >better ? >> >> Hi >> I think your still missing the point. Your printout is >> all in ascii. If things were working as expected the >> number '31' hex would display as '1' when printed. Many hex >> numbers would not even display. It looks like the variable >> is now correct but you need to write it as the byte value >> to a file not convert it to the decimal printed >> as ascii digits. 255 is the binary values that are 00110010 >> 00110101 00110101. This is 3 values not the one value 11111111. >> I think you are still confusing the byte with the displayed >> value. >> Am I making sense? >> Dwight >> >> >> >> > >> >On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 18:26:12 -0700 (PDT), Dwight K. Elvey >> > >> >wrote: >> >... >> >> I'm not sure this is what he is looking for. I think >> >> he wants the hex number converted to a byte value >> >> not just printed in ascii as a binary value. >> >> Dwight >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sat Jul 31 16:01:04 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: Looking for old data information In-Reply-To: <200407310247.TAA24428@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200407310247.TAA24428@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <410C0890.9050905@gifford.co.uk> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Does anyone have any data books with the specs > and signals for Rockwell's 4 bit processors that > they made during the late 70's? These were in a > funny flat pack called spider chips. I have a book by Steve Money called "Microprocessor Data Book", and it lists three Rockwell 4-bit chips, the MM75, MM76 and MM78. They make up the PPS4/1 Series. Are they the ones you are interested in? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sat Jul 31 16:05:02 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: Old EPROM questions again, EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <87f782d64c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> References: <20040730013222.JQCO2991.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> <87f782d64c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <410C097E.7070802@gifford.co.uk> Philip Pemberton wrote: > If I did something like that today, I'd probably use a few TIL311s, a 4040 > counter and a bunch of switches. Or I'd use a PIC microcontroller and a > bit of assembler code to program the ROM. And how would you get the program into the PIC? :-) -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From dwight.elvey at amd.com Sat Jul 31 16:25:54 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: Looking for old data information Message-ID: <200407312125.OAA25144@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "John Honniball" > >Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >> Does anyone have any data books with the specs >> and signals for Rockwell's 4 bit processors that >> they made during the late 70's? These were in a >> funny flat pack called spider chips. > >I have a book by Steve Money called "Microprocessor Data Book", and >it lists three Rockwell 4-bit chips, the MM75, MM76 and MM78. They >make up the PPS4/1 Series. Are they the ones you are interested in? > >-- >John Honniball >coredump@gifford.co.uk > > Hi John Hard to say. The chips I have all have inhouse numbers on them. It sure does sound like the right stuff though. The chips are all 42 pin spider chips. Dwight From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 31 16:06:56 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: Lucas Electrics: RE: Commodore Pet ROM trouble... EPROM In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040731100013.00875b00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at Jul 31, 4 10:00:13 am Message-ID: > I have to agree with you there (x-VW Quantum made by Audi). I think the > switches are the only part of the Lucas ssytem that I never had trouble Odd... We had British cars here for about 30 years, with Lucas electrics. Apart from service replacements (things like ignition contact breakers, HT leads, etc), I think I had to replace one alternator regulator/brushbox assembly (the pass transistor shorted, and it's a potted module), and maybe a windscreen washer pump. Our current car has Mitsubishi alternator and starter. I've had to strip the starter to feee off jammed brushes and replace the alternator regulator/brushbox (worn-out brushes). On that record, Lucas is no worse than anything else. -tony From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jul 31 17:00:39 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: CCTALK/CCTECH archives Message-ID: I found a great place that has archives of many various mailing lists, including CCTALK and CCTECH: http://archive.netbsd.se/ Seems to be duplicates of what's on ClassicCmp.org, but the interface seems nicer. Doesn't ANYONE have archives going back to the beginning? Whatever happened to the old archives? They were so nice... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jdbryan at acm.org Sat Jul 31 14:38:58 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: HP 1000 ROM part number history PDF Message-ID: <200407311939.i6VJd2x9008442@mail.bcpl.net> For those interested, the HP M/E/F-Series ROM Part Number History that I mentioned in an earlier post is available as part of the "Communicator/1000 for Software Update 6.2" PDF available at: http://www.hp.com/products1/rte/tech_support/5963-4402.pdf See pages 3-120 through 3-124. -- Dave From osicollector at btinternet.com Sat Jul 31 16:07:52 2004 From: osicollector at btinternet.com (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific Challenger 4P/MF In-Reply-To: <543AF378.33B55739.0233EB56@aol.com> Message-ID: <000001c47742$715d66f0$0202a8c0@graemenlhedhfc> Hi there, Top outside connector should give composite video two below are for cassette. Some machines can be wired differently though best to check from video board J1 the 12 pin opposite the backplane.pin1 of the socket one the 540 board is next to the 7400. Then as follows 1-gnd 2 colour freq red 3 blue 4 green 6 colour comp 6 gnd 7 black and white comp 8 sound in 9 gnd 10 sound out 11 ac control 12 gnd Hope this helps Graeme -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of JMeyer101@aol.com Sent: 30 July 2004 21:11 To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Ohio Scientific Challenger 4P/MF Hello all, Does anyone have any information or instructions on how to connect the 4P to a display? I have the computer but I'm not able to connect it to anything. There are 6 what appears to be RCA type plugs on the back, 2 wide by 3 tall, with + over one column and - over the other. What do I need to do to get this thing working? I also have an Intellec 4 that I am trying to find accessories and information for. Thanks, Jeff From mross666 at hotmail.com Sat Jul 31 17:11:26 2004 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: IBM 1092 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 21:01:44 -0400 From: "John Allain" Subject: Re: IBM 1092 >I have a device like this, taken from IIRC an NCR device ca. 1960. >It is definitely a keyboard and it contains a matrix of something like >(3x8+AD0-)24 by 24 switches, and it is coded, perhaps BCD. Underneath it >is all hand strung wires. I can dust it off and send photographs if >you're interested. I'm primarily interested in DEC & IBM stuff, thanks... why don't you put the photos on a website where everyone can see them? >1401 I've heard of. What's an 1800? Same architecture as the 1130, but a much bigger box. Built like a System/360, from SLT logic. See: http://www.corestore.org/1800-2.htm Cheers Mike From geoffreythomas at onetel.com Sat Jul 31 17:31:40 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.com (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: Fw: Insect Conductivity - language? References: Message-ID: <010301c4774e$5e072ee0$0200a8c0@geoff> It sounds like you're agreeing with what I said ? Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 9:34 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Insect Conductivity - language? > On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Geoffrey Thomas wrote: > > > Having decided to enter the debate I thought I might try out a bit of > > allusion alongside an expletive - as above . I must say that I find it > > distinctly uncomfortable to see the last line in print. I think I belong to > > the school that believes that swearing is an art form ( not ark B ) and if > > it is used indiscriminately it loses it's impact. > > Um, your analogy breaks down rather quickly and catastrophically. > > Art in the form of painting, poetry, photography, scultpure, etc., > gets produced every day which is patently bad (and in some cases > offensive) yet each form of art not only survives but thrives today. > > A finely worded cuss is an art. Some people are good at it,the majority > are mediocre. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jul 31 18:20:25 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: Fw: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: <010301c4774e$5e072ee0$0200a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Jul 2004, Geoffrey Thomas wrote: > It sounds like you're agreeing with what I said ? Nope, the exact opposite. You said: "the school that believes that swearing is an art form ( not ark B ) and if it is used indiscriminately it loses it's impact." My point was that the act of swearing, whether in amounts copious or meager, has no more effect on its impact than does a bad copy of the Mona Lisa on the art of painting. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sat Jul 31 19:07:18 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: Looking for old data information In-Reply-To: <200407312125.OAA25144@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200407312125.OAA25144@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <410C3436.3020806@gifford.co.uk> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >>From: "John Honniball" >>I have a book by Steve Money called "Microprocessor Data Book", and >>it lists three Rockwell 4-bit chips, the MM75, MM76 and MM78. They >>make up the PPS4/1 Series. Are they the ones you are interested in? ... > Hard to say. The chips I have all have inhouse numbers on them. > It sure does sound like the right stuff though. The chips are > all 42 pin spider chips. There's no detail about the packaging, but only one chip has 42 pins. The MM78 (and MM78LA) is listed as "42-pin quad in line". That chip has 2k of 8-bit ROM, 128x4 bit RAM and 31 I/O lines. Instructions are 8 bits wide, but the ALU and memory are 4-bit. Maximum clock frequency is 100kHz. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Sat Jul 31 21:09:57 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: Cirris 1000 In-Reply-To: <012f01c474da$3cb369a0$0200a8c0@geoff> References: <3.0.6.32.20040727205617.00b46680@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <012f01c474da$3cb369a0$0200a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: On Jul 28, 2004, at 12:36 PM, Geoffrey Thomas wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe R." > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 1:56 AM > Subject: Re: Cirris 1000 > > >> Jim, >> >> Yes I still have it. The winnng bidder welshed out and never paid >> for > it. >> Joe >> > I'm not particularly sensitive in these matters , but I do object to > your > use of the term "welsh" , meaning to renege on a bet I am told. > This is old English propaganda , and I'm told that Bill Clinton had to > apologise for it's use in America. > Should you persist , I shall have no hesitation in initiating the use > of the > verb to " American " - i.e. to invade or destabilise a foreign country > on > false premises or purely for the advancement of American capital > interests . Smile when you say that pardner. Let's keep the politics out of this, it will only serve to make people mad. > > Geoff. > > From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Jul 31 21:27:06 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: Fw: Insect Conductivity - language? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200408010232.WAA17273@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > "the school that believes that swearing is an art form ( not ark B ) and > My point was that the act of swearing, whether in amounts copious or Actually, to be picky, the language in question was not swearing but vulgarity. (Though meanings have drifted to the point where "swearing" arguably includes all forms of strong language, not just those calling - whether profanely or not - on things sacred.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat Jul 31 21:33:26 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: CCTALK/CCTECH archives References: Message-ID: <002c01c4776f$ecd713d0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > Seems to be duplicates of what's on ClassicCmp.org, but the interface > seems nicer. I'll have a looksee and see what they are using. I believe mailman (the list software I use for this list) allows any external web interface. Opinions anyone on contrast between the two? > Doesn't ANYONE have archives going back to the beginning? Whatever > happened to the old archives? They were so nice... The archives are there.... just at a somewhat "hidden" url. It's been so long since I've had time to mess with them, I have forgotten why they were moved offline temporarily (now semi-permanently due to my overcomittment). Anyone who has wanted to get to the old archives just asks me and I give them the URL. The hidden one doesn't change. If you want it sellam, ask me off-list. Sooner or later I'll get around to digging into exactly why I had to take them out of public view, and fix whatever that was so they are back online. Regards, Jay From tosteve at yahoo.com Sat Jul 31 21:34:16 2004 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: Looking for old data information In-Reply-To: <410C0890.9050905@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <20040801023416.21109.qmail@web40912.mail.yahoo.com> I have a 1984 Rockwell Data Book with lots of ICs in it - I will need a part number. Steve. --- John Honniball wrote: > Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > Does anyone have any data books with the specs > > and signals for Rockwell's 4 bit processors that > > they made during the late 70's? These were in a > > funny flat pack called spider chips. > > I have a book by Steve Money called "Microprocessor > Data Book", and > it lists three Rockwell 4-bit chips, the MM75, MM76 > and MM78. They > make up the PPS4/1 Series. Are they the ones you > are interested in? > > -- > John Honniball > coredump@gifford.co.uk > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From frustum at pacbell.net Sat Jul 31 21:50:28 2004 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: CCTALK/CCTECH archives In-Reply-To: <002c01c4776f$ecd713d0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <002c01c4776f$ecd713d0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <410C5A74.7070609@pacbell.net> Jay West wrote: ... >>Doesn't ANYONE have archives going back to the beginning? Whatever >>happened to the old archives? They were so nice... > > The archives are there.... just at a somewhat "hidden" url. It's been so > long since I've had time to mess with them, I have forgotten why they were > moved offline temporarily (now semi-permanently due to my overcomittment). > ... > > Regards, > > Jay Jay, IIRC, the issue was that the archives had naked email addresses; the plan was to take the archives offline, process them to obscure email addresses, then put them back online. I guess only the first step occurred. From ggs at shiresoft.com Sat Jul 31 21:51:57 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: IBM 1092 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1091328716.5989.13.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> On Fri, 2004-07-30 at 13:13, Mike Ross wrote: > > BTW, I'm *still* engaged in a probably-hopeless search for a 1052 or 1816 > (heavy-duty 1052) console to use with my 1800, in the increasingly-unlikely > event that anyone here can point me towards one... > Hmm. I had a 1052 when I was in college (a long time ago) that I used for a terminal for the micro-computers I was building. I had to build a custom interface for it in order to drive it (48v relays and tilt-rotate codes). Was *much* more fun than my friends who were "stuck" with teletypes. Sadly, IBM seemed to want it back. -- TTFN - Guy From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Sat Jul 31 21:52:28 2004 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific Challenger 4P/MF In-Reply-To: <000001c47742$715d66f0$0202a8c0@graemenlhedhfc> Message-ID: chris [osicollector@btinternet.com] wrote: > Top outside connector should give composite video two below are > for cassette. Hmmm... that doesn't seem to be the factory configuration. The C4 SAMS (sitting in my lap right now) and both of my own examples show the top inside (left as you are facing the rear of the machine and the machine is right side up) as video, below it (only on a C4P NOT mf) are cassette out and in. There is no cassette I/O on a C4Pmf. Top outside is audio, below that is DAC out and below that is AC. > Some machines can be wired differently though best to check > from video board J1 the 12 pin opposite the backplane.pin1 of the > socket one the 540 board is next to the 7400. Then as follows > > 1-gnd > 2 colour freq red > 3 blue > 4 green > 6 colour comp > 6 gnd > 7 black and white comp > 8 sound in > 9 gnd > 10 sound out > 11 ac control > 12 gnd That looks about right but to avoid confusion, it should be noted that in the factory configuration only pins 2, 5, 6, 11 and 12 are used. 2 goes to the rear mounted pot for color adjustment, 5 and 6 to video out and 11 and 12 to AC CONTROL (which I think is an early form of X10 appliance control). Bill From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jul 31 21:49:05 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's In-Reply-To: <41083068.9020204@soulwax.co.uk> References: <41082603.90104@mdrconsult.com> <3.0.6.32.20040728121126.009b9530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <10407281922.ZM28583@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <4107FCFD.6030205@mdrconsult.com> <16647.65371.706000.557188@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4108090D.6070900@mdrconsult.com> <014701c474e2$d1c472c0$0500fea9@game> <410817B5.2050204@mdrconsult.com> <019b01c474ec$dc17d5f0$0500fea9@game> <41082603.90104@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040731224905.0079a2f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:02 AM 7/29/04 +0100, you wrote: >it frustrates me to see the company i work for still reliant on nightly >backups (about 1.5gb) of sales data on obsolite drives and tapes (last >mass made around 15yrs ago!) and refusing to change type to a newer >reliable medium because of cost, dispite the cost of replacing them is >less than the cost of one call out for each crash caused by fault >hardware - this amounts to several hundreds ??? each time due to lost >data, and the cost of lost sales while engineers (contracted only) >arrive to reboot and verify data on each tape, this system is over 25 >yrs old and it's been patched up so many times it starting to look like >a microshafting took place. it's so old one of the terminals in one >store was opened to find some document dated 1980 slid inside and was >the cause of the extra heat as it had stopped the fan from working and >the extra dust had just caused it give up! > >we have major crashes on average once every 3 or 4 months and minor ones >every 2 or 3 weeks. it's a sorry state when the accountant with his >abacus can run EVERY part of the company! Welcome to big business in the 1990s! That's the reason that Martin Marietta, IBM, HP, Tektronix (just to name a few) are all going to hell! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jul 31 21:46:38 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: Cirris 1000 In-Reply-To: <012f01c474da$3cb369a0$0200a8c0@geoff> References: <3.0.6.32.20040727205617.00b46680@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040731224638.00797100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:36 PM 7/28/04 +0100, you wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe R." >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 1:56 AM >Subject: Re: Cirris 1000 > > >> Jim, >> >> Yes I still have it. The winnng bidder welshed out and never paid for >it. >> Joe >> >I'm not particularly sensitive in these matters , but I do object to your >use of the term "welsh" , meaning to renege on a bet I am told. >This is old English propaganda , and I'm told that Bill Clinton had to >apologise for it's use in America. That's fair, America has had to apologize for Bill Clinton many times. >Should you persist , I shall have no hesitation in initiating the use of the >verb to " American " - i.e. to invade or destabilise a foreign country on >false premises or purely for the advancement of American capital interests . Welsh, welsh, welsh, welsh, welsh, welsh, welsh, welsh! Joe > >Geoff. > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jul 31 21:55:40 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: a classiccmp electronics project? In-Reply-To: <008401c4772a$b62ab340$6700a8c0@vrshome.msn.com> References: <200407310057.RAA24309@clulw009.amd.com> <3.0.6.32.20040731100638.00875ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040731225540.00a015e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:17 AM 7/31/04 -0700, you wrote: >From: "Joe R." >> For one thing the parts used in the HP 1000 are 25 to 35 nS parts. Also >> the enable and other control lines are very different so you'd need a fair >> amount of glue chips and probably a buffer. > >> >(I don't know the specs for the bipolar ROMs being replaced. Someone >> >earlier said they were 50-60ns. I am assuming they were also fairly >small >> >(logically, if not physically) compared to a 27c256.) >> >> The ones in the HP 1000 are 4 x 256 and are sixteen or eighteen (I >> forget which) pin .3" wide DIPs. Al has pins out for some of the different >> BiPolar PROMs on his site. I think they're under the games machines >> section. > >OK, that helps a lot to get me on the same page. > >Can you use the 74S571? Those appear to still be available from JameCo >(part #48910) at 35ns address-to-data, 25ns enable-to-data. They are 512x4 >16 pin DIPs. $5.69 qty 1, $5.49 qty 10. Haven't found them elsewhere, >though. Bob Shannon has ordered these and gotten them so I'm wondering why all the sudden interest in using EPROMs or SRAMs. But I thought I'd let the discussion continue and see what developes. From what Bob told me he orders one specific part but Jameco sends him several different brands. They're supposed to be equivilent but apparently that's only in read mode. They are programmed differently and he's had both good and bad luck programming them. Joe > >Not knowing what I am looking for, I wasn't able to find the pinouts on Al's >site, however. Can you provide a pointer or at least a part number? > >> There's no room for a duaghterboard to mount on the HP 1000 card. >> You'd have to mount it elsewhere and cable over to it. > >Wouldn't that cost you a few nanoseconds just in the cabling? ISTR cable >delays measured in ns/ft. > >Thanks! > > Vince > > From frustum at pacbell.net Sat Jul 31 22:04:09 2004 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: Wang 2200 LVPC-E available Message-ID: <410C5DA9.3080104@pacbell.net> A gentleman in Baltimore sent me this email: I happen to have a Wang 2200 and have been wondering about it. I used to have a one man computer hardware design consulting company with an office in a medical/professional office building. One day a doctor in a nearby office had the maintenance man wheel in this Wang 2200 into my office. No manuals, no floppies, no terminals. As far as I know it was in working condition when it was retired circa 1996. It in a storage area since then and I have decided it needs a good home. A subsequent email showed it to be a Wang 2200 LVPC-E, made in 1983. The machine has a single 8" floppy, but the internal hard disk has been removed. The VP series machines had a writable microcode store, so to execute BASIC, it had to come off of a disk. So as it stands, it will not boot. I asked him about his asking price and he said: This unit is very heavy, so I worry about delivery. My ideal scenario is someone would drive up and grab it from me. From what you said it would cost more to ship (have to be by truck) than its worth. If you are interested in the machine and can pick it up, please send me an email at frustum@pacbell.net and I'll send you pictures and I'll give you his email address. I'm not posting his email directly so his address doesn't get spam harvested. From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat Jul 31 22:35:45 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: a classiccmp electronics project? References: <200407310057.RAA24309@clulw009.amd.com><3.0.6.32.20040731100638.00875ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040731225540.00a015e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <006c01c47778$a180f320$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Joe wrote... > Bob Shannon has ordered these and gotten them so I'm wondering why all > the sudden interest in using EPROMs or SRAMs. But I thought I'd let the > discussion continue and see what developes. From what Bob told me he > orders one specific part but Jameco sends him several different brands. > They're supposed to be equivilent but apparently that's only in read mode. > They are programmed differently and he's had both good and bad luck > programming them. It was Bob that told me he had pretty pitiful luck with finding ones, and the ones he did find had a very low success rate. Hence, the discussion of EPROMS and SRAMS. > >> There's no room for a duaghterboard to mount on the HP 1000 card. I beg to differ. But one could always run a short and heavily shielded cable to it. Jay From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Jul 31 22:47:31 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:39 2005 Subject: Article on data rot on CD's References: <41082603.90104@mdrconsult.com> <3.0.6.32.20040728121126.009b9530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <10407281922.ZM28583@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <4107FCFD.6030205@mdrconsult.com> <16647.65371.706000.557188@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4108090D.6070900@mdrconsult.com> <014701c474e2$d1c472c0$0500fea9@game> <410817B5.2050204@mdrconsult.com> <019b01c474ec$dc17d5f0$0500fea9@game> <41082603.90104@mdrconsult.com> <3.0.6.32.20040731224905.0079a2f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <004401c4777a$462127f0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 10:49 PM Subject: Re: Article on data rot on CD's > At 12:02 AM 7/29/04 +0100, you wrote: > >it frustrates me to see the company i work for still reliant on nightly > >backups (about 1.5gb) of sales data on obsolite drives and tapes (last > >mass made around 15yrs ago!) and refusing to change type to a newer > >reliable medium because of cost, dispite the cost of replacing them is > >less than the cost of one call out for each crash caused by fault > >hardware - this amounts to several hundreds ??? each time due to lost > >data, and the cost of lost sales while engineers (contracted only) > >arrive to reboot and verify data on each tape, this system is over 25 > >yrs old and it's been patched up so many times it starting to look like > >a microshafting took place. it's so old one of the terminals in one > >store was opened to find some document dated 1980 slid inside and was > >the cause of the extra heat as it had stopped the fan from working and > >the extra dust had just caused it give up! > > > >we have major crashes on average once every 3 or 4 months and minor ones > >every 2 or 3 weeks. it's a sorry state when the accountant with his > >abacus can run EVERY part of the company! > > Welcome to big business in the 1990s! That's the reason that Martin > Marietta, IBM, HP, Tektronix (just to name a few) are all going to hell! > > Joe > > Those companies always had bean counters, but they were held in check by management that was made up of engineers/sales/qc people who went up the ladder. Today these companies are run by MBA's who never worked the line and don't know the products or the customers very well. It also has to do with the greed these people have that allows them to plunder the company in the short term and leave, CEO's don't stick around long these days and don't care about long term growth. From JMeyer101 at aol.com Sat Jul 31 23:46:14 2004 From: JMeyer101 at aol.com (JMeyer101@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:47:43 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific Challenger 4P/MF Message-ID: <12d.47346267.2e3dcf96@aol.com> Hello Graeme, Thank you! This should help alot. Apparently this computer uses a floppy drive. Do you happen to know where I can pick one up? Thanks again, Jeff Meyer