From tomj at wps.com Wed Dec 1 00:12:51 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:50:59 2005 Subject: Burroughs Panaplex display data needed In-Reply-To: <41ACF55B.8050407@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <41ACF55B.8050407@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Nov 2004, ben franchuk wrote: > Try around here for if they have any docs. > http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/nixies.html#catalog Yeah, checked there, there's a circular link to 'panaplex', but I may email them. From nico at farumdata.dk Wed Dec 1 00:16:42 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:00 2005 Subject: Anyone have a Seagate ST01 or 2 ? References: <20041130204204.BA0534859@spies.com> Message-ID: <001201c4d76d$53baba90$2101a8c0@finans> From: "Al Kossow" > from Fred van Kempen > > Can you ask the list, or anyone, if anyone has an old Seagate ST01 > and/or ST02 controller available? I I had some brief experience with the ST01. It is a SCSI adapter for XT's and AT's, and IIRC it could be fitted with a boot bios. It could be used for SCSI-1 discs op to 100 MB or so, as there was a limit on the number of cylinders it could handle. There was also an ST02, but I've never seen it Nico From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 1 00:17:14 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:00 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Dec 1, 4 00:56:09 am Message-ID: > > The ST454 needs some restoration - there's a brown stain in the inside of the > > top plastic (polystyrene, according to the destructions) cover (from the > > tape?) and the cabinet covering is peeling away. It is, however, fully > > functional (electronically speaking). Valve complement is - EF86, ECC83, > > ECL82, EM84, EZ80. > > > > If anyone's got a set of schematics for the ST454 (or knows which Philips > > It's not in Poole and Molloy, at least on that I can find. Can you give > me more description, so I can see if I can identify the Philips equivalent. OK, I think I've traced it. A 3rd party user guioe ('The Philips Tape Recorder Book', 1st edition) states that the ST454 is equivalent to the Philips EL3541 and the Cossor CR1602. As luck would have it, the Philips model is one of the few not in Poole and Molloy, but the Cossor one is. It seems to have undergone several revisions over the years, the changes being : 1) The superimpose swtich (turns off the erase head) became a parallel play button (plaus tracks 1 and 3 together). 2) The 2 pin pickup/radio input became a DIN socket (radio input and line level ouptu) and, believe-it-or-not an IEC 5 pin pickup input. 3) THere ware circit changes, some quite significant. I've checked the appropate volumes of Poole and Molloy, and the valves match up with the ones you state. To answer my questions : > > In particular : > > It's 4 track, does it have a Stereo socket [3]? It should do. Left side of the machine. Early models didn't provide the 16V for the pre-amp here, though. > > What's the cabinet made of (most were rexine-covered plywood, a few later > ones were plastic) I think it's rexine-covered wood, at least for the Philips EL3541. But I can't be sure, and this is something that may differ between Philips/Cossor/Stella versions. > > How many speeds, what are they Only one (the EL3542 is essentially the 3 speed model). Presumably 3+3/4 ips > > What controls and connectors do you have? As you stanted foor connectors (2 pin radio input, 2 pin monittor headphones, 2 pin estension speaker, DIN microphone, DIN stereo socket, mechanical remote control). Controls look to be conventional Philips, apart from the strainght-through amplifier switch near the connector panel. -tony From wayne.smith at charter.net Wed Dec 1 00:23:26 2004 From: wayne.smith at charter.net (Wayne Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:00 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 15, Issue 52 In-Reply-To: <200411301802.iAUI0Gjh055835@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000601c4d76e$49fcdfa0$6501a8c0@Wayne> > >From: "Wayne Smith" > > > >I have posted a few pictures taken during VCF 7.0 at > >http://webpages.charter.net/jpepperman/VCF%207.0.html. > > > >-W > > > > Hi > Of course my exhibit wasn't even noticed or photographed. > As usual Sellam gave me half a table and most just figured > that I was part of the exhibit next to me ( North Star ). > Since my machine was also a woodie, ( much rarer than > a North star ) it just blend into the background. > Maybe next year I'll be noticed. > Dwight Dwight: Talk about shooting the "poster". Your memory is failing you! :-) Not only did I "notice" your exhibit, I actually talked to you about it and even photographed it - how could I have possibly missed it given the very prominent placement assigned by Sellam! In fact, as I discussed with you, I was at the session when Jim Willing smoked it (popped the tantalums) at VCF 4. Indeed, at that session Jim Willing borrowed a BNC to RCA connector from me (that I was using with my IBM 5100) to put what turned out to be garbage composite video up on a screen. I just went back through the raw photos I took and I saw that the photo I took of yours turned out very dark, which is why I left it out the first time around. I will do what I can with Photoshop and add it to what I posted - give me 1/2 hour. Mea culpa, -W From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Wed Dec 1 00:46:14 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:00 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 30, 2004, at 8:57 PM, David V. Corbin wrote: >>>>> I am trying to re-create the DOS environment of my youth. :^) > > Ahh to be young enough to consider DOS (on a peecee) a "youthful" > experience....My goal is to get a complete TSS/8 system up and > running! Now > those were the days!!! > > My actual youth was spent in the time of the homebrew computer club, and s100 bus and cpm. But my first machine with a hard disk drive was a PC (televideo with 20mb monitor and tower together) From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 1 01:11:20 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:00 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Nov 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > anyone have the DOS version of Empire, Nethack (an older version that > does not need dpmi), > I had a DOS version of tetris too (using regular characters in 40 char > mode) so I am looking > for that too. > > Any websites that provide old DOS programs for download? Ron, I can't stand it anymore. Have you ever heard of a thing called GOOGLE? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Dec 1 02:12:14 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:00 2005 Subject: Reel-to-reel tape decks (was Re: ZX81 denigrated!) In-Reply-To: <27aa39164d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> References: <27aa39164d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <200412010813.DAA18577@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> That was a farily standard connector on Philips tape recorders. The >> middle pin is a locator only -- the real reason for it was to stop >> the plug going into European mains scoksts (!). > Heh. > the problem now is, where can you get the plugs? If it required a dummy pin to prevent its use in European mains sockets, then a European mains plug should be a workable substitute, I would think.... Or was the "dummy" pin actually used to carry something? /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From charlesb at otcgaming.net Wed Dec 1 02:19:32 2004 From: charlesb at otcgaming.net (charlesb@otcgaming.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:01 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs References: Message-ID: <002301c4d77e$7d8cff20$0c650750@gamemachine> http://www.the-underdogs.org/ they even have the original leisure suit larry, and also the venerable "alley-cat" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Hudson" To: "Classic Computers" Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 3:19 AM Subject: Old Dos Programs > > anyone have the DOS version of Empire, Nethack (an older version that does > not need dpmi), > I had a DOS version of tetris too (using regular characters in 40 char > mode) so I am looking > for that too. > > Any websites that provide old DOS programs for download? > > Thanks! > > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.802 / Virus Database: 545 - Release Date: 27/11/2004 From fernande at internet1.net Wed Dec 1 02:40:14 2004 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:01 2005 Subject: Anyone have a Seagate ST01 or 2 ? In-Reply-To: <001201c4d76d$53baba90$2101a8c0@finans> References: <20041130204204.BA0534859@spies.com> <001201c4d76d$53baba90$2101a8c0@finans> Message-ID: <41AD836E.6020800@internet1.net> I have an SC01, and I had a 3xx MB Seagate on it. The disk had been originally set up on another machine, on another conroller, though. The SC02 just has the addition of a floppy controller. Fred, what do you need the SC01 for? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Nico de Jong wrote: > From: "Al Kossow" > >>from Fred van Kempen >> >>Can you ask the list, or anyone, if anyone has an old Seagate ST01 >>and/or ST02 controller available? I > > > I had some brief experience with the ST01. > It is a SCSI adapter for XT's and AT's, and IIRC it could be fitted with a > boot bios. It could be used for SCSI-1 discs op to 100 MB or so, as there > was a limit on the number of cylinders it could handle. > There was also an ST02, but I've never seen it > > Nico From gordon at gjcp.net Wed Dec 1 02:43:10 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:01 2005 Subject: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) In-Reply-To: <41AD31F4.5050402@jbrain.com> References: <031c01c4d4c7$fa6dd960$164f0945@acme> <4584.192.168.0.7.1101650144.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> <01b901c4d59f$74f5d200$fa4f0945@acme> <41AD31F4.5050402@jbrain.com> Message-ID: <41AD841E.9040608@gjcp.net> Jim Brain wrote: > Glen Goodwin wrote: > >> One transistor + one resistor + one monitor = rock solid display. >> >> > Any links? A dormant unit sits on the shelf. From memory, desolder the resistor inside the UHF modulator that goes to the middle pin of the phono. Poke one lead of a 75 ohm (or thereabouts, 68 is common and close enough) through the polythene through the polythene bush, and solder it to the socket instead. Solder the emitter of a small NPN tranny to the other end. Solder the base of the tranny to the video lead, the other one that goes through the bush, and solder the collector to the +5 supply where it goes into the feedthrough cap. Finally solder another 75 ohm resistor between the junction of the first one and the emitter, and ground. You may need to adjust those values, I may be wrong. >> Scraps from the junk box and 30 minutes time will yield a cable which >> provides enough distance from the ZX81 to eliminate the "wobble" >> problem. >> >> > Again, links? Get a 2x23 edge connector, a bit of circuit board etched and shaped to match the edge connector on the ZX81, and a bit of ribbon cable. Wire them together. Gordon. From wayne.smith at charter.net Wed Dec 1 02:53:30 2004 From: wayne.smith at charter.net (Wayne Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:01 2005 Subject: VCF 7.0 Pictures Message-ID: <000701c4d783$3e4da4e0$6501a8c0@Wayne> > >From: "Wayne Smith" > > > >I have posted a few pictures taken during VCF 7.0 at > >http://webpages.charter.net/jpepperman/VCF%207.0.html. > > > >-W > > > > Hi > Of course my exhibit wasn't even noticed or photographed. > As usual Sellam gave me half a table and most just figured > at I was > part of the exhibit next to me ( North Star ). Since my machine was > also a woodie, ( much rarer than a North star ) it just > end into the > background. Maybe next year I'll be noticed. > Dwight > > Dwight: Talk about shooting the "poster". Your memory is failing you! :-) Not only did I "notice" your exhibit, I actually talked to you about it and even photographed it - how could I have possibly missed it given the very prominent placement assigned by Sellam! In fact, as I discussed with you, I was at the session when Jim Willing smoked it (popped the tantalums) at VCF 4. Indeed, at that session Jim Willing borrowed a BNC to RCA connector from me (that I was using with my IBM 5100) to put what turned out to be garbage composite video up on a screen. I just went back through the raw photos I took and I saw that the photo I took of yours turned out very dark, which is why I left it out the first time around. I will do what I can with Photoshop and add it to what I posted - give me 1/2 hour. Mea culpa, -W From wayne.smith at charter.net Wed Dec 1 03:22:50 2004 From: wayne.smith at charter.net (Wayne Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:01 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (technoid) In-Reply-To: <200412010906.iB1958jg060942@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000001c4d787$5798b940$6501a8c0@Wayne> In case anyone wondered what became of him . . . very sad. FLORIDA CRIMINAL HISTORY RECORDS DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS Name: WORLEY, JEFFREY S Status: active inmate Date of Birth: 6/12/1970 Birth State: UT SSN: 528-56-7309 Gender: Male Height (Ft-In): 5'6" Race: WHITE Eye Color: HAZEL *****OFFENSE RECORD***** Comments: PAROLE INELIGIBLE Offense: 2ND DEG MUR, DANGEROUS ACT Offense Severity: Felony Offense Date: 4/26/2003 County or Jurisdiction: DADE Case Disposition: ADJUDICATED Case Number: 0311800 Sentence Date: 3/23/2004 Sentence Type: Custody Sentence Length: 018 YR(S) *****INCARCERATION RECORD***** RECORD 0001 Status: Active Incarceration Date: 4/12/2004 Location: DADE C.I. Sentence Length: 006570 DAY(S) Tentative Release Date: 4/9/2021 From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Dec 1 03:41:40 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:01 2005 Subject: Reel-to-reel tape decks (was: Re: ZX81 denigrated!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In message ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > OK, I think I've traced it. A 3rd party user guioe ('The Philips Tape > Recorder Book', 1st edition) states that the ST454 is equivalent to the > Philips EL3541 and the Cossor CR1602. Yep - I've just had a look at some photos of the EL3451 - it looks exactly the same as the ST454, aside from the case finish (mine is red and white, the Philips unit I had a look at was grey). > 1) The superimpose swtich (turns off the erase head) became a parallel > play button (plaus tracks 1 and 3 together). Mine must be a fairly old unit then; it's got a superimpose switch, not a parallel-play button. > 2) The 2 pin pickup/radio input became a DIN socket (radio input and line > level ouptu) and, believe-it-or-not an IEC 5 pin pickup input. > 3) THere ware circit changes, some quite significant. > > In particular : > > > > It's 4 track, does it have a Stereo socket [3]? > > It should do. Left side of the machine. Early models didn't provide the > 16V for the pre-amp here, though. Found it. Left side of the plastic top cover, next to the volume control. Listed in the manual as a "Stereo Socket"; appears to be a 3-pin DIN with a locator pin in the centre (?!) > I think it's rexine-covered wood, at least for the Philips EL3541. But I > can't be sure, and this is something that may differ between > Philips/Cossor/Stella versions. >From the "Operating Instructions" booklet: Cabinet: Wooden cabinet covered in a washable plastic cloth with polystyrene lid. > Controls look to be conventional Philips, > apart from the strainght-through amplifier switch near the connector > panel. Yep. It's got one of those. I'm beginning to think the brown staining in the top plastic may be down to some foam (or similar) splitting away from the polystyrene lid - it does have a "foamy" look to it. Next job after that is fixing the crack in the lid and sticking the rexine back down in the areas where it's peeled off... Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... I was going to procrastinate, but I put it off.... From gordon at gjcp.net Wed Dec 1 03:53:59 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:01 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41AD94B7.4010603@gjcp.net> David V. Corbin wrote: >>>>>I am trying to re-create the DOS environment of my youth. :^) > > > Ahh to be young enough to consider DOS (on a peecee) a "youthful" > experience....My goal is to get a complete TSS/8 system up and running! Now > those were the days!!! > How would one go about getting the actual TSS/8 OS? Gordon. From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Dec 1 04:58:41 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (technoid) References: <000001c4d787$5798b940$6501a8c0@Wayne> Message-ID: <001801c4d794$b8427030$0200fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Smith" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 4:22 AM Subject: Jeffrey Worley (technoid) > In case anyone wondered what became of him . . . very sad. > > FLORIDA CRIMINAL HISTORY RECORDS DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS > > Name: WORLEY, JEFFREY S > Status: active inmate > Date of Birth: 6/12/1970 > Birth State: UT > SSN: 528-56-7309 > Gender: Male > Height (Ft-In): 5'6" > Race: WHITE > Eye Color: HAZEL > > *****OFFENSE RECORD***** > > Comments: PAROLE INELIGIBLE > Offense: 2ND DEG MUR, DANGEROUS ACT > Offense Severity: Felony > Offense Date: 4/26/2003 > County or Jurisdiction: DADE > Case Disposition: ADJUDICATED > Case Number: 0311800 > Sentence Date: 3/23/2004 > Sentence Type: Custody > Sentence Length: 018 YR(S) > > *****INCARCERATION RECORD***** > > RECORD 0001 > Status: Active > Incarceration Date: 4/12/2004 > Location: DADE C.I. > Sentence Length: 006570 DAY(S) > Tentative Release Date: 4/9/2021 > > > So what did he collect? 18 Years is a long time, the guy is younger then me. From dr.ido at bigpond.net.au Wed Dec 1 06:33:40 2004 From: dr.ido at bigpond.net.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs In-Reply-To: <200412010330.WAA05125@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20041201223340.016b09e0@pop-server> At 10:27 PM 11/30/04 -0500, you wrote: >> anyone have the DOS version of Empire, Nethack (an older version that >> does not need dpmi), I had a DOS version of tetris too (using regular >> characters in 40 char mode) so I am looking for that too. There were at least a couple of versions of tetris that ran in text mode. >From memory the Spectrum Holobyte release included a tiny text mode version (~8kb .com file) along with the graphic version. The others were probably PD/shareware and weren't actually called tetris. I should have an old enough version of Nethack somewhere. I remember it included instructions for running it on non-PC MS-DOS machines and a premade config file for DEC Rainbows. I got it running on a Wang Professional, but I usually played it on a PC. From cbajpai at comcast.net Wed Dec 1 06:49:39 2004 From: cbajpai at comcast.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (technoid) In-Reply-To: <000001c4d787$5798b940$6501a8c0@Wayne> Message-ID: <001001c4d7a4$395c86b0$6501a8c0@xpdesk> Who was he...a member of the list? -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Wayne Smith Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 4:23 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Jeffrey Worley (technoid) In case anyone wondered what became of him . . . very sad. FLORIDA CRIMINAL HISTORY RECORDS DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS Name: WORLEY, JEFFREY S Status: active inmate Date of Birth: 6/12/1970 Birth State: UT SSN: 528-56-7309 Gender: Male Height (Ft-In): 5'6" Race: WHITE Eye Color: HAZEL *****OFFENSE RECORD***** Comments: PAROLE INELIGIBLE Offense: 2ND DEG MUR, DANGEROUS ACT Offense Severity: Felony Offense Date: 4/26/2003 County or Jurisdiction: DADE Case Disposition: ADJUDICATED Case Number: 0311800 Sentence Date: 3/23/2004 Sentence Type: Custody Sentence Length: 018 YR(S) *****INCARCERATION RECORD***** RECORD 0001 Status: Active Incarceration Date: 4/12/2004 Location: DADE C.I. Sentence Length: 006570 DAY(S) Tentative Release Date: 4/9/2021 From cmcnabb at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 07:04:22 2004 From: cmcnabb at gmail.com (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: FW: Upcoming Trip... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <145cecdd041201050414bd48ef@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:55:19 -0500, David V. Corbin wrote: > > > On Friday 12/3 I will be heading down I-95 from NY to Va. to pick up a great > find... Hi Dave. It will probably be quicker/shorter if you come down I-81. I-96 takes you pretty far out of the way. Also, the check still hasn't arrived. Hopefully it will be Friday. From cmcnabb at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 07:05:18 2004 From: cmcnabb at gmail.com (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: FW: Upcoming Trip... In-Reply-To: <145cecdd041201050414bd48ef@mail.gmail.com> References: <145cecdd041201050414bd48ef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <145cecdd041201050553683cb8@mail.gmail.com> Whoops, I didn't mean that to go to the CCTALK list. My apologies to all. On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 08:04:22 -0500, Christopher McNabb wrote: > On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:55:19 -0500, David V. Corbin > wrote: > > > > > > On Friday 12/3 I will be heading down I-95 from NY to Va. to pick up a great > > find... > > Hi Dave. > > It will probably be quicker/shorter if you come down I-81. I-96 takes > you pretty far out of the way. > > Also, the check still hasn't arrived. Hopefully it will be Friday. > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Dec 1 07:21:30 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Finding shorts in boards Message-ID: <1101907290.32333.10.camel@weka.localdomain> I've got a board here with a short between ground and the +5V rail (actually not quite dead - I'm getting around 10 ohms between the rails) Any useful tips for finding the fault? It's a large board, multi-layer, lots of silicon on it unfortunately :-( Are there any particular components that are likely to fail in this way that might be found across PSU rails? (decoupling caps, certain ICs, crystal modules etc.?) Given a suitably sensitive meter is it sensible to assume I can try and home in on the short location a little? (I've found readings between GND/supply on various LS chips of anything between 9.5 and 12 ohms so far) I've checked the board for particles of anything that might be causing the problem, plus I'm halfway through ruling out any of the socketed ICs. Of course if it's a problem with the multi-layer PCB itself... eek! (do these ever fail in such a way though? It's a commercial board which used to be fine) cheers Jules From williams.dan at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 07:38:16 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (technoid) In-Reply-To: <001001c4d7a4$395c86b0$6501a8c0@xpdesk> References: <000001c4d787$5798b940$6501a8c0@Wayne> <001001c4d7a4$395c86b0$6501a8c0@xpdesk> Message-ID: <26c11a6404120105385ab1d1aa@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 07:49:39 -0500, Chandra Bajpai wrote: > Who was he...a member of the list? > > -Chandra > > > > I don't think so, I seem to remember this being discussed on the list before. A quick google revealed he was into Ataris. Dan From allain at panix.com Wed Dec 1 07:56:16 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (technoid) References: <001001c4d7a4$395c86b0$6501a8c0@xpdesk> Message-ID: <009401c4d7ad$87ad1d80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Who was he...a member of the list? Yes. Here is a mini-history on classiccmp 17-Nov-2000: "Subject: Re: First personal computer nostalgia" Jeff posts a detailed autobiography 28-Jan-2003: "Subject: I am not dead!" Jeff reports some of his troubles. 28-Apr-2003: attempted murder-suicide in Miami http://www.click10.com/news/2162231/detail.html 26-Jun-2003: listmember discovers the above From bpope at wordstock.com Wed Dec 1 07:53:26 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (technoid) In-Reply-To: <26c11a6404120105385ab1d1aa@mail.gmail.com> from "Dan Williams" at Dec 1, 04 01:38:16 pm Message-ID: <200412011353.IAA24741@wordstock.com> And thusly Dan Williams spake: > > On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 07:49:39 -0500, Chandra Bajpai wrote: > > Who was he...a member of the list? > > > > -Chandra > > > > > > > > > I don't think so, I seem to remember this being discussed on the list > before. A quick google revealed he was into Ataris. > > Dan > Actually he was... I have some saved messages sent by him to this mailing list. The last one I have was sent Feb 7, 2003 and was about the Atari ST OS. Cheers, Bryan From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Dec 1 08:19:44 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (technoid) In-Reply-To: <000001c4d787$5798b940$6501a8c0@Wayne> from Wayne Smith at "Dec 1, 4 01:22:50 am" Message-ID: <200412011419.GAA16378@floodgap.com> > In case anyone wondered what became of him . . . very sad. > > FLORIDA CRIMINAL HISTORY RECORDS DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS > > Name: WORLEY, JEFFREY S > Status: active inmate > Date of Birth: 6/12/1970 > Birth State: UT > SSN: 528-56-7309 > Gender: Male > Height (Ft-In): 5'6" > Race: WHITE > Eye Color: HAZEL I assume the data is all correct? :( -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Please dispose of this message in the usual manner. -- Mission: Impossible - From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Dec 1 08:43:56 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Finding shorts in boards References: <1101907290.32333.10.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <16813.55468.988000.726998@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jules" == Jules Richardson writes: Jules> I've got a board here with a short between ground and the +5V Jules> rail (actually not quite dead - I'm getting around 10 ohms Jules> between the rails) Jules> Any useful tips for finding the fault? It's a large board, Jules> multi-layer, lots of silicon on it unfortunately :-( 10 ohms means about 0.5 amps -- sounds like a perfectly respectable amount of current for a board with "lots of silicon" to draw. So... are you sure there is a short, rather than just circuitry? paul From wacarder at usit.net Wed Dec 1 09:01:28 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Blinking Light program for PDP-11 Message-ID: <000e01c4d7b6$a309ba80$f71b0f14@wcarder1> I seem to recall seeing a little program that can be toggled into a PDP-11 (35/40/45/etc) that will create a "rolling lights" pattern on the front panel console, where the lights roll to the right and left, off and on. Can anyone here on the list point me to that program? I know that I saw it somewhere on the internet. I'd like to toggle that program in on my system. On another note, I got my ASR-33 working, connected online via 20mA DZ11 connection to my 11/34. I had the send/recv wires crossed. It works perfectly now. Ashley From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Dec 1 09:21:17 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Finding shorts in boards In-Reply-To: <16813.55468.988000.726998@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <1101907290.32333.10.camel@weka.localdomain> <16813.55468.988000.726998@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <1101914477.32333.31.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 09:43 -0500, Paul Koning wrote: > >>>>> "Jules" == Jules Richardson writes: > > Jules> I've got a board here with a short between ground and the +5V > Jules> rail (actually not quite dead - I'm getting around 10 ohms > Jules> between the rails) > > Jules> Any useful tips for finding the fault? It's a large board, > Jules> multi-layer, lots of silicon on it unfortunately :-( > > 10 ohms means about 0.5 amps -- sounds like a perfectly respectable > amount of current for a board with "lots of silicon" to draw. > So... are you sure there is a short, rather than just circuitry? Hmm, you could well have a point there. There's around 150 ICs of LS- logic complexity on the board, then around 30 or so more complex beasties. Perhaps that figure isn't so unreasonable. If I can work out which pins on the euroconnectors provide power then maybe I should hook a known-good 5V supply up to it and see if that's happy powering things... cheers Jules From auringer at tds.net Wed Dec 1 09:51:13 2004 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: A couple of freebies... Message-ID: <41ADE871.9050607@tds.net> While cleaning the past weekend, I came across a couple of things that I thought I would try to find a home for. 1) Manual for a Aydin Controls "Slow Scan Analog Patriot Series High Resolution Color Monitor", March 1985. I also happen to have a model 8831 monitor, which is covered in the manual. I do not know the working condition of the monitor, but the cosmetic condition is O.K. The manual contains schematics and troubleshooting information, so I would think making the tube work should be possible. The tube is big, and needs to be picked up on the east side of Madison, WI. 2) 1985 Sharper Image catalog. The only thing I thought was interesting was the ad for an Omnibot 2000 robot. Anyone interested for the cost of shipping? Jon From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 1 09:55:35 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (technoid) In-Reply-To: <000001c4d787$5798b940$6501a8c0@Wayne> References: <000001c4d787$5798b940$6501a8c0@Wayne> Message-ID: >SSN: xxx-xx-xxxx Even if he is in Jail for Murder, posting that little tidbit of information to the List is totally inappropriate. If that info is publicly accessible on a Florida website then there is a problem there as well. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From RMeenaks at OLF.COM Wed Dec 1 10:01:49 2004 From: RMeenaks at OLF.COM (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: SANG megalink transputer board on ebay... Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B558478077FF4C3@exchange.olf.com> Here is something you typically wont find easily: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=164&item=5143508523&r d=1 You can use this on an AMIGA if you have the corresponding ZORRO link adapter card... Cheers, Ram (c) 2004 OpenLink Financial Copyright in this message and any attachments remains with us. It is confidential and may be legally privileged. If this message is not intended for you it must not be read, copied or used by you or disclosed to anyone else. Please advise the sender immediately if you have received this message in error. Although this message and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss or damage in any way arising from its use. From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Wed Dec 1 10:20:32 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: ot: getting a "coff" Message-ID: Several of the programs I try to run on my "classic dos" machine give the error message: :not coff (check for viruses) I don't yet have a virus scanner, but these files were downloaded from trusted sources I don't think I have a virus. What is this error message? From lbickley at bickleywest.com Wed Dec 1 10:33:38 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (technoid) In-Reply-To: References: <000001c4d787$5798b940$6501a8c0@Wayne> Message-ID: <200412010833.38062.lbickley@bickleywest.com> I do consulting work for several law enforcement agencies - and while felony records are public information - the posting of a SSN is absolutely against the law. it looked to me that the original post came from records in an internal law enforcement system - and, as such, is considered confidential information for law enforcement use only. Lyle On Wednesday 01 December 2004 07:55, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >SSN: xxx-xx-xxxx > > Even if he is in Jail for Murder, posting that little tidbit of > information to the List is totally inappropriate. If that info is > publicly accessible on a Florida website then there is a problem > there as well. > > Zane -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From bert at brothom.nl Wed Dec 1 10:34:43 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: ot: getting a "coff" References: Message-ID: <41ADF2A3.CC72792E@brothom.nl> Ron Hudson wrote: > > Several of the programs I try to run on my "classic dos" machine give > the error message: > > :not coff (check for viruses) > > I don't yet have a virus scanner, but these files were downloaded from > trusted sources > I don't think I have a virus. What is this error message? http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/C/coff.html (Just googled, not from experience) From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Wed Dec 1 10:47:45 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 30, 2004, at 11:11 PM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 30 Nov 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > >> anyone have the DOS version of Empire, Nethack (an older version that >> does not need dpmi), >> I had a DOS version of tetris too (using regular characters in 40 char >> mode) so I am looking >> for that too. >> >> Any websites that provide old DOS programs for download? > > Ron, > > I can't stand it anymore. Thank you for your self control > > Have you ever heard of a thing called GOOGLE? Yes Sellam, I have. You may assume that I have tried GOOGLE any time I come to the list with a question. In the case of the programs mentioned above Google only returns versions for more modern systems that run windows 95+ > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Wed Dec 1 10:53:49 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: ot: getting a "coff" In-Reply-To: <41ADF2A3.CC72792E@brothom.nl> References: <41ADF2A3.CC72792E@brothom.nl> Message-ID: <92C4303E-43B9-11D9-835D-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Dec 1, 2004, at 8:34 AM, Bert Thomas wrote: > > > Ron Hudson wrote: >> >> Several of the programs I try to run on my "classic dos" machine give >> the error message: >> >> :not coff (check for viruses) >> >> I don't yet have a virus scanner, but these files were downloaded from >> trusted sources >> I don't think I have a virus. What is this error message? > > http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/C/coff.html Thanks, I saw that. It only defines COFF. No hints as to what I need to make DOS 6.22 run the thing. One of the instances I where I got this was I was trying "Seal" a GUI written by the people who also put out freeDOS http://www.freedos.org/ And it says at the seal download site that it runs under other DOSses > > (Just googled, not from experience) > From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Wed Dec 1 10:56:48 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20041201223340.016b09e0@pop-server> References: <3.0.3.32.20041201223340.016b09e0@pop-server> Message-ID: On Dec 1, 2004, at 4:33 AM, Dr. Ido wrote: > At 10:27 PM 11/30/04 -0500, you wrote: >>> anyone have the DOS version of Empire, Nethack (an older version that >>> does not need dpmi), I had a DOS version of tetris too (using regular >>> characters in 40 char mode) so I am looking for that too. > > There were at least a couple of versions of tetris that ran in text > mode. >> From memory the Spectrum Holobyte release included a tiny text mode >> version > (~8kb .com file) along with the graphic version. The others were > probably > PD/shareware and weren't > actually called tetris. > > I should have an old enough version of Nethack somewhere. I remember > it > included instructions for running it on non-PC MS-DOS machines and a > premade config file for DEC Rainbows. I got it running on a Wang > Professional, but I usually played it on a PC. That would be awsome! I found (late last night) two console versions of tetris, one is the one I remember, the other is new. Want copies? From RMeenaks at OLF.COM Wed Dec 1 11:11:18 2004 From: RMeenaks at OLF.COM (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: ot: getting a "coff" Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B558478077FF4CC@exchange.olf.com> Apparently coming from djgpp: http://www.ludd.luth.se/~ams/djgpp/cvs/djgpp/src/stub/stub.asm Ram -----Original Message----- From: Ron Hudson [mailto:ron.hudson@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 11:54 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: ot: getting a "coff" On Dec 1, 2004, at 8:34 AM, Bert Thomas wrote: > > > Ron Hudson wrote: >> >> Several of the programs I try to run on my "classic dos" machine give >> the error message: >> >> :not coff (check for viruses) >> >> I don't yet have a virus scanner, but these files were downloaded >> from trusted sources I don't think I have a virus. What is this error >> message? > > http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/C/coff.html Thanks, I saw that. It only defines COFF. No hints as to what I need to make DOS 6.22 run the thing. One of the instances I where I got this was I was trying "Seal" a GUI written by the people who also put out freeDOS http://www.freedos.org/ And it says at the seal download site that it runs under other DOSses > > (Just googled, not from experience) > (c) 2004 OpenLink Financial Copyright in this message and any attachments remains with us. It is confidential and may be legally privileged. If this message is not intended for you it must not be read, copied or used by you or disclosed to anyone else. Please advise the sender immediately if you have received this message in error. Although this message and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss or damage in any way arising from its use. From arlen at acm.org Wed Dec 1 11:17:36 2004 From: arlen at acm.org (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Anyone have a Seagate ST01 or 2 ? In-Reply-To: <20041130204204.BA0534859@spies.com> Message-ID: on 30/11/04 3:42 PM, Al Kossow wrote: > from Fred van Kempen > > Can you ask the list, or anyone, if anyone has an old Seagate ST01 > and/or ST02 controller available? Yes, I have an ST02. Fred, give me a shout off-list. Arlen Michaels From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Dec 1 11:23:36 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1101921816.32333.44.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 23:11 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 30 Nov 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > > > anyone have the DOS version of Empire, Nethack (an older version that > > does not need dpmi), > > I had a DOS version of tetris too (using regular characters in 40 char > > mode) so I am looking > > for that too. > > > > Any websites that provide old DOS programs for download? > > Ron, > > I can't stand it anymore. > > Have you ever heard of a thing called GOOGLE? http://www.fuckinggoogleit.com/ can be a useful resource ;) Note, I have *no problem* with people asking questions that it may be possible to answer via google (or other means). It keeps the list alive and of course people usually dispense valuable related knowledge at the same time as answering a specific question - the sort of knowledge that comes from first-hand experience which wouldn't always be gained from a google search... For on-topic stuff, in (nearly?) all cases I'd trust opinions from this list over anything returned via google... cheers J. From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Wed Dec 1 11:40:41 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: ot: getting a "coff" In-Reply-To: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B558478077FF4CC@exchange.olf.com> References: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B558478077FF4CC@exchange.olf.com> Message-ID: <1E9AA5C4-43C0-11D9-835D-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Dec 1, 2004, at 9:11 AM, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > Apparently coming from djgpp: > > http://www.ludd.luth.se/~ams/djgpp/cvs/djgpp/src/stub/stub.asm Thanks for your help, that seems to be the stub that my programs were compiled to use, it looks like it loads the DPMI- then finds the rest of the program and runs it in protected mode? I don't know assembly language for the x86 but this seems to only tell me what I already know - the programs I am trying to run are meant to run under a 32 bit OS, even though the sites I download them from say they are for DOS, and I have run them under plain DOS before (perhaps I ran older versions) > > > Ram > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Hudson [mailto:ron.hudson@sbcglobal.net] > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 11:54 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: ot: getting a "coff" > > > > On Dec 1, 2004, at 8:34 AM, Bert Thomas wrote: > >> >> >> Ron Hudson wrote: >>> >>> Several of the programs I try to run on my "classic dos" machine give >>> the error message: >>> >>> :not coff (check for viruses) >>> >>> I don't yet have a virus scanner, but these files were downloaded >>> from trusted sources I don't think I have a virus. What is this error >>> message? >> >> http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/C/coff.html > > Thanks, I saw that. It only defines COFF. No hints as to what I need > to make > DOS 6.22 run the thing. > > One of the instances I where I got this was I was trying "Seal" a GUI > written by the people who also put out freeDOS > > http://www.freedos.org/ > > And it says at the seal download site that it runs under other DOSses > > > >> >> (Just googled, not from experience) >> > > > (c) 2004 OpenLink Financial > > Copyright in this message and any attachments remains with us. It is > confidential and may be legally privileged. If this message is not > intended for you it must not be read, copied or used by you or > disclosed to anyone else. Please advise the sender immediately if > you have received this message in error. > > Although this message and any attachments are believed to be free of > any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into > which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the > recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility > is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss or damage in any > way arising from its use. > > From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Dec 1 11:48:00 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 15, Issue 52 Message-ID: <200412011748.JAA06125@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Wayne Sorry for accusing you of missing me. It was a great show this year. I always enjoy these very much. I hope to have a bigger and flashier exhibit next year. My spare time has been somewhat limited this year. Dwight >From: "Wayne Smith" > >> >From: "Wayne Smith" >> > >> >I have posted a few pictures taken during VCF 7.0 at >> >http://webpages.charter.net/jpepperman/VCF%207.0.html. >> > >> >-W >> > >> >> Hi >> Of course my exhibit wasn't even noticed or photographed. >> As usual Sellam gave me half a table and most just figured >> that I was part of the exhibit next to me ( North Star ). >> Since my machine was also a woodie, ( much rarer than >> a North star ) it just blend into the background. >> Maybe next year I'll be noticed. >> Dwight > >Dwight: > >Talk about shooting the "poster". > >Your memory is failing you! :-) Not only did I "notice" your exhibit, I >actually talked to you about it and even photographed it - how could I >have possibly missed it given the very prominent placement assigned by >Sellam! In fact, as I discussed with you, I was at the session when Jim >Willing smoked it (popped the tantalums) at VCF 4. Indeed, at that >session Jim Willing borrowed a BNC to RCA connector from me (that I was >using with my IBM 5100) to put what turned out to be garbage composite >video up on a screen. > >I just went back through the raw photos I took and I saw that the photo >I took of yours turned out very dark, which is why I left it out the >first time around. I will do what I can with Photoshop and add it to >what I posted - give me 1/2 hour. > >Mea culpa, > >-W > > > > From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 1 12:14:32 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: ot: getting a "coff" In-Reply-To: <41ADF2A3.CC72792E@brothom.nl> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Dec 2004, Bert Thomas wrote: > Ron Hudson wrote: > > > > Several of the programs I try to run on my "classic dos" machine give > > the error message: > > > > :not coff (check for viruses) > > > > I don't yet have a virus scanner, but these files were downloaded from > > trusted sources > > I don't think I have a virus. What is this error message? > > http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/C/coff.html > > (Just googled, not from experience) Wow, it's amazing what you can learn from Google, eh Ron? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 1 12:18:36 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Dec 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > > Have you ever heard of a thing called GOOGLE? > > Yes Sellam, I have. You may assume that I have tried GOOGLE any > time I come to the list with a question. In the case of the programs > mentioned above Google only returns versions for more modern systems > that run windows 95+ Don't take this the wrong way but perhaps you need to learn to use Google a bit better? Try reading their search help, which contains lots of great information on improving your search results (and which has helped me find just what I want to usually): http://www.google.com/help/basics.html ...or use their advanced search feature: http://www.google.com/advanced_search?hl=en The list is a terrific biological encyclopedia of everything but some questions can be better answered elsewhere ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Dec 1 12:19:10 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (technoid) References: <000001c4d787$5798b940$6501a8c0@Wayne> Message-ID: <16814.2846.774508.8072@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Zane" == Zane H Healy writes: >> SSN: xxx-xx-xxxx Zane> Even if he is in Jail for Murder, posting that little tidbit of Zane> information to the List is totally inappropriate. If that info Zane> is publicly accessible on a Florida website then there is a Zane> problem there as well. Yes. The problem with SSNs is that they are publicly accessible in far too many places. And you're asked for them in lots of places -- like doctor's offices -- where you get very strange looks when you say NO. And way too many companies use them for ID numbers. And many states put them on driver's licenses. The problem is that all of this is legal -- it shoudn't be. paul From r_a_feldman at hotmail.com Wed Dec 1 12:27:42 2004 From: r_a_feldman at hotmail.com (Robert Feldman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs Message-ID: Ron, Try: http://www.dosonly.net/ http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ http://www.filelibrary.com:8080/Contents/DOS/ http://www.opus.co.tt/dave/index.htm http://www.comatose.freeserve.co.uk/welcome.htm http://f.webring.com/hub?ring=dosnet Bob Message: 21 Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 19:19:26 -0800 From: Ron Hudson Subject: Old Dos Programs To: Classic Computers Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Any websites that provide old DOS programs for download? Thanks! From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 1 12:42:14 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: IBM Composer Message-ID: A nice site on the IBM Composer: http://www.ibmcomposer.org/ -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Dec 1 12:59:19 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: ot: getting a "coff" In-Reply-To: <92C4303E-43B9-11D9-835D-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> References: <41ADF2A3.CC72792E@brothom.nl> <92C4303E-43B9-11D9-835D-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <1101927559.32348.52.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 08:53 -0800, Ron Hudson wrote: > On Dec 1, 2004, at 8:34 AM, Bert Thomas wrote: > > > > > > > Ron Hudson wrote: > >> > >> Several of the programs I try to run on my "classic dos" machine give > >> the error message: > >> > >> :not coff (check for viruses) > >> > >> I don't yet have a virus scanner, but these files were downloaded from > >> trusted sources > >> I don't think I have a virus. What is this error message? > > > > http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/C/coff.html > > Thanks, I saw that. It only defines COFF. No hints as to what I need > to make DOS 6.22 run the thing. Is it possible someone's built these things using a Windows compiler and it's that which is screwing things up? Maybe they'll work quite happily in a DOS shell within Windows, but not on a standalone DOS system... cheers Jules From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Dec 1 13:21:23 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Finding shorts in boards In-Reply-To: Jules Richardson "Finding shorts in boards" (Dec 1, 13:21) References: <1101907290.32333.10.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <10412011921.ZM8916@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 1 2004, 13:21, Jules Richardson wrote: > > I've got a board here with a short between ground and the +5V rail > (actually not quite dead - I'm getting around 10 ohms between the rails) > > Any useful tips for finding the fault? It's a large board, multi-layer, > lots of silicon on it unfortunately :-( That's only about 500mA at 5V. Sure it's a short? Of course, it may draw lots more than that under power, if your meter is not using enough voltage to turn on junctions. > Are there any particular components that are likely to fail in this way > that might be found across PSU rails? (decoupling caps, certain ICs, > crystal modules etc.?) Decoupling caps, TTL, and some MOS memory chips all can draw excess current when faulty. I usually put them on a hefty 5V supply and feel for what's hot (you can sometimes burn out the short in a decoupling cap that way -- they often go bang). Point of reference: a BBC B board normally draws about 2A at 5V, but the last one I had with a particularly nasty set of faults drew over 10A at 5V -- and the faulty TTL chips got hot enough to feel without actually touching them. > Given a suitably sensitive meter is it sensible to assume I can try and > home in on the short location a little? (I've found readings between > GND/supply on various LS chips of anything between 9.5 and 12 ohms so > far) You really want a current tracer. HP made a really nice one, and I'm still annoyed I didn't bid high enough on the last one I saw :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From cb at mythtech.net Wed Dec 1 14:05:19 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (technoid) Message-ID: >Yes. The problem with SSNs is that they are publicly accessible in >far too many places. And you're asked for them in lots of places -- >like doctor's offices -- where you get very strange looks when you say >NO. And way too many companies use them for ID numbers. And many >states put them on driver's licenses. > >The problem is that all of this is legal -- it shoudn't be. Here in NJ, the Emergency Service records are all handled via SSN as a person's ID number. So every EMS class I take, I have to put down my name, and my SSN on a sheet of paper that sits at the front of the class... open to anyone who is in the class, or anyone at any of the schools that handles the paperwork (or anyone that sees the paperwork). If I fail to put down my SSN, the course won't go down on my state records, which means I'll be shafted out of class credits needed for various recerts. Often these same sign in sheets ask for phone number and address as well (I now put down the # and addy of my department rather than my own, but most people put down their own). Some even ask for DL #!!! (I never put that down except on classes that involve driving) And I'm still convinced that the time I had my ID stolen was from one of these classes. I use a combination of my name for my EMS records that I don't use for ANYTHING else... and the time I had someone take out a credit card in my name with my SSN, they used that particular combination of my name. Of course, I'll never know for sure, because the local police felt it was too low priority to bother investigating. I pushed them for 6 months on it before I gave up. (meanwhile, the bank told me they had a 2nd address and phone number on the application, but that they couldn't give it to me, but they COULD give it to a police department... so really all the cops had to do was make one lousy phone call!) The state started a new ID system a few years back, but no one (including the state itself) has changed over to it for general use (partly because the ID is only for fire fighters, and they make up only one portion of the EMS personelle... someone that just rides an ambulance has no desire to take a fire fighter class so they can be issued an FFID). I keep hoping the state will expand the FFIDs to a generic EMS-ID, and change over to that for everything... it irks me each time I have to put my SSN down on the sign in sheets. -chris From tomj at wps.com Wed Dec 1 14:32:04 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Finding shorts in boards In-Reply-To: <16813.55468.988000.726998@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <1101907290.32333.10.camel@weka.localdomain> <16813.55468.988000.726998@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Dec 2004, Paul Koning wrote: > 10 ohms means about 0.5 amps -- sounds like a perfectly respectable > amount of current for a board with "lots of silicon" to draw. > So... are you sure there is a short, rather than just circuitry? I agree. Put the ohmmeter on both ways, see if the "short" acts like a diode. If so, likely normal load. Might be symmetrical though. From technobug at comcast.net Wed Dec 1 14:41:37 2004 From: technobug at comcast.net (CRC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 16, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: <200412011800.iB1I03je064060@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200412011800.iB1I03je064060@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <65CAC147-43D9-11D9-94CB-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> On 1 Dec 2004 09:43:56, Paul Koning commented: >>>>>> "Jules" == Jules Richardson >>>>>> writes: > > Jules> I've got a board here with a short between ground and the +5V > Jules> rail (actually not quite dead - I'm getting around 10 ohms > Jules> between the rails) > > Jules> Any useful tips for finding the fault? It's a large board, > Jules> multi-layer, lots of silicon on it unfortunately :-( > > 10 ohms means about 0.5 amps -- sounds like a perfectly respectable > amount of current for a board with "lots of silicon" to draw. > So... are you sure there is a short, rather than just circuitry? > > paul Unless there are passives (like terminators) between +5V and GND, 10 ohms is a little low. 0.5 amps represents a minimum current that the board will pull. An ohmmeter will not normally cause the silicon to conduct and hence be counted in the total resistance. Some chips do have internal dividers, but the they are nomally in the 10K + range. I normally use a current limited supply at the required voltage and set the limit so that it starts to limit. I then use a 5 digit voltmeter to trace where the current is going. This is done by placing one probe on the +5V input and then measuring the drop as you trace out the distribution path. The path drawing the current will continually drop while non-drawing paths will remain at a constant voltage drop. On multi-layer boards you measure drops to the Vcc pins of the bugs and map the drop. CRC From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Dec 1 15:16:21 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: NCR Tower PSU again Message-ID: <1101935781.32348.75.camel@weka.localdomain> Hmm, getting somewhere; found a dead triac near the input which was supposed to bypass that 10 ohm resistor that was burning out once the PSU had started up. Presumably the intention was to allow the PSU to start a little more gracefully. Nice bodge story: I just found out why the system wasn't starting up at all. It had been semi-dismantled since it had died years ago; I'd reassembled it recently when trying to get it running again. After much wiring tracing I've just discovered although the cable between the control panel and the backplane is keyed at both ends, at one end the connector was on back to front. That hadn't stopped whoever assembled it at the factory from hammering the keyed connector backwards into its socket! I hadn't noticed how bent out of shape the socket was when I reassembled the machine; I'd simply lined up the key on the connector with the relevant slot on the socket, then spent ages trying to work out why the PSU wasn't even trying to start up when the switch was operated. Grrr! Now, I'm getting a good 5.1V output, but there's a nasty wheezing noise (not a whine!) from somewhere on the main PSU board. The +12V and -12V rails are seriously up the spout. With a light load (just a couple of fans), the fans spin up for a couple of seconds before everything shuts down for a couple more seconds, then the cycle repeats (the wheezing sounds like breathing at this point!). With no load the wheezing's constant and the PSU doesn't shut down, but -12V rail is at -4V and +12V rail is at +5.3V. I'm going to load the PSU up with an (unwanted) hard disk in a moment just in case it's not firing properly because of not enough load - not sure if I want to risk any boards in there at present though, but of course it's possible the PSU's not operating properly because there's some feedback from the absent CPU board not present... Any widsom appreciated. Sure don't like that wheezing noise - cap or wound component? Fault or just something not being driven at the right frequency? cheers Jules From melamy at earthlink.net Wed Dec 1 16:08:36 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Finding shorts in boards Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041201170823.03178eb0@mail.earthlink.net> the biggest culprit when it comes to older electronics is the good old tantalum cap. I have seen these be a little resistive, dead shorts, etc. good luck. best regards, Steve Thatcher At 08:21 AM 12/01/2004, you wrote: >I've got a board here with a short between ground and the +5V rail >(actually not quite dead - I'm getting around 10 ohms between the rails) > >Any useful tips for finding the fault? It's a large board, multi-layer, >lots of silicon on it unfortunately :-( > >Are there any particular components that are likely to fail in this way >that might be found across PSU rails? (decoupling caps, certain ICs, >crystal modules etc.?) > >Given a suitably sensitive meter is it sensible to assume I can try and >home in on the short location a little? (I've found readings between >GND/supply on various LS chips of anything between 9.5 and 12 ohms so >far) > >I've checked the board for particles of anything that might be causing >the problem, plus I'm halfway through ruling out any of the socketed >ICs. Of course if it's a problem with the multi-layer PCB itself... eek! >(do these ever fail in such a way though? It's a commercial board which >used to be fine) > >cheers > >Jules From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Dec 1 16:31:36 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 16, Issue 2 Message-ID: <200412012231.OAA06239@clulw009.amd.com> >From: CRC > > >On 1 Dec 2004 09:43:56, Paul Koning commented: > >>>>>>> "Jules" == Jules Richardson >>>>>>> writes: >> >> Jules> I've got a board here with a short between ground and the +5V >> Jules> rail (actually not quite dead - I'm getting around 10 ohms >> Jules> between the rails) >> >> Jules> Any useful tips for finding the fault? It's a large board, >> Jules> multi-layer, lots of silicon on it unfortunately :-( >> >> 10 ohms means about 0.5 amps -- sounds like a perfectly respectable >> amount of current for a board with "lots of silicon" to draw. >> So... are you sure there is a short, rather than just circuitry? >> >> paul > >Unless there are passives (like terminators) between +5V and GND, 10 >ohms is a little low. 0.5 amps represents a minimum current that the >board will pull. An ohmmeter will not normally cause the silicon to >conduct and hence be counted in the total resistance. Some chips do >have internal dividers, but the they are nomally in the 10K + range. > >I normally use a current limited supply at the required voltage and set >the limit so that it starts to limit. I then use a 5 digit voltmeter to >trace where the current is going. This is done by placing one probe on >the +5V input and then measuring the drop as you trace out the >distribution path. The path drawing the current will continually drop >while non-drawing paths will remain at a constant voltage drop. > >On multi-layer boards you measure drops to the Vcc pins of the bugs and >map the drop. > > CRC > > Hi I use a slightly different method. I use a current limiting supply and set it to about an amp or two. I place the supply across one of the power planes ( corner to corner on a solid plane and end to end for E traces ). I do not place the supply form power to ground, just across the one plane. I then place one lead, of a meter that reads 5 digits on a 200 mV scale, from the opposite rail that is shorted two. One then simply traces for a null on the plane with the current flow across it. On a plane, I take a piece of string to mark the line of the null and then put the supply on 90 degrees, across the same plane. Where the new null line cross the old string is the where the short is. This method will even work if the short is +1K, if that is the only current flow. I once showed using it on a burnin board with a 10K resistor that was in wrong out of some 400 sockets and about 12 resistors per socket. I was able to zero right into the exact resistor. The principle is that one uses the plane as though it were a variable resistor and the short was the contact. If one measures along the resistor to the contact, the voltage will be zero at the location where the contact is made. This is much easier to read than CRC's method since you are looking for a null, rather than a stop in the change of the voltage. It also has the advantage that it won't blow an intermittent short so you can find it. It is more sensitive than the HP current probe for power planes ( having used both methods ). It also is run at a very low voltage so there is no chance of damaging other parts. I publish this method every now and then but most people don't think about how it works and will tend to forget it. Such is! Dwight From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Dec 1 16:32:02 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Finding shorts in boards References: <6.1.2.0.2.20041201170823.03178eb0@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <16814.18018.493105.223933@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Steve" == Steve Thatcher writes: Steve> the biggest culprit when it comes to older electronics is the Steve> good old tantalum cap. I have seen these be a little Steve> resistive, dead shorts, etc. ...and sometimes the assembly shop installs them backwards, which produces startling results -- often with quite a delay. I recently found out that there exist tantalum caps with builtin fuses -- the idea is that if they short out, the fuse blows and the system keeps going. If you have a whole pile of them as bypass caps, that's a good approach. paul From tomj at wps.com Wed Dec 1 17:28:40 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Finding shorts in boards In-Reply-To: <10412011921.ZM8916@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <1101907290.32333.10.camel@weka.localdomain> <10412011921.ZM8916@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Dec 2004, Pete Turnbull wrote: > You really want a current tracer. HP made a really nice one, and I'm > still annoyed I didn't bid high enough on the last one I saw :-( There's a really EXCELLENT one in Bob Pease's electronic troubleshooting book. I bought one, autographed. I forget the title, but his URL is www.national.com/rap. How's that for a home page! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 1 18:42:26 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Reel-to-reel tape decks (was Re: ZX81 denigrated!) In-Reply-To: <27aa39164d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> from "Philip Pemberton" at Dec 1, 4 01:33:16 am Message-ID: > > signal pin. The original plug was unpolarised, but carried a red dot to > > indictate the signal pin. > > the problem now is, where can you get the plugs? The book I mentioned suggests you can use a pair of 4mm banana plugs. Have you tried them? The original plug was not screened or anything, so the 4mm pluges should be OK. > > > Said machine is Stereo, 4 speed (including 15/16 ips [1]), can copy one > > mono track to the other while mixing in the microphone input, and so on. > > The speakers are somewhat Heath-Robinson. There's one in the case, used > > for mono playback and the left stereo channel. And another in the lid. > > For Stereo playback you uncoil a lead from a slot inside the lid and plug > > it into the RH extension speaker socket. Then put the lid on the right > > side of the machine, about 2m away. Of course you can also connect up a > > pair of speakers or a stereo amplifer/speaker system... > > Sounds like a nice machine. Vacuum-tube or transistorised? Alas fully transistorised. The previous model (essentially a stereo EL3542) had valves in the output stages. I would like to find that one, I'd also like to find both of the 'Upright' models -- the EL3538 transistorised portable (2 track, mono, 1+7/8 ips) and the EL3514 (4 track, mono, 3+3/4 ips, mostly valved). These are not particularly good quality machines -- my old Brennel 2-track mono machine will beat the Philips hands-down. But they're fun... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 1 18:54:14 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Reel-to-reel tape decks (was: Re: ZX81 denigrated!) In-Reply-To: from "Philip Pemberton" at Dec 1, 4 09:41:40 am Message-ID: > > OK, I think I've traced it. A 3rd party user guioe ('The Philips Tape > > Recorder Book', 1st edition) states that the ST454 is equivalent to the > > Philips EL3541 and the Cossor CR1602. > > Yep - I've just had a look at some photos of the EL3451 - it looks exactly > the same as the ST454, aside from the case finish (mine is red and white, the > Philips unit I had a look at was grey). Right.... It's not suprising things like the case colour and trim changed.... I think the electronics is much the same... > > > 1) The superimpose swtich (turns off the erase head) became a parallel > > play button (plaus tracks 1 and 3 together). > > Mine must be a fairly old unit then; it's got a superimpose switch, not a > parallel-play button. I think that makes it a first-series unit. Which means you'll not have the 16V supply on the Stereo socket. THe book mentions 'This can be easily modified by any Philips dealer'. Poole and Molloy gives all the circuits (but spread over 3 books...), it appears to be just a matter of adding 2 resistors. Do you have access to Poole and Molloy (say in a good public library [1])? You'd get a schematic from there, but the official service mnaual would be worth getting since it'll cover the mechanical side too. I am glad I got the manual for my stereo machine, some of the things, like setting up the swtich linkages, are not at all obvious... I got said manual from Mauritron back when they sold manuals on paper. Now that they only sell them on CD-ROM, I don't bother with them -- I am not going to pay out good money for a manual and then have to spend a few days printing the darn thing out! [1] At one time main libraries kept said books -- the complete set from 1952 onwards. But based on the number of volumes I've bought in libary sales, I guess they no longer do... > > It should do. Left side of the machine. Early models didn't provide the > > 16V for the pre-amp here, though. > > Found it. Left side of the plastic top cover, next to the volume control. > Listed in the manual as a "Stereo Socket"; appears to be a 3-pin DIN with a > locator pin in the centre (?!) Quitel likely. A normal 3 pin DIN plug will fit, and only the normal 3 pins are electricallly used. > I'm beginning to think the brown staining in the top plastic may be down to > some foam (or similar) splitting away from the polystyrene lid - it does have Quite likely. I think origianlly there was a foam pad over each spool turntable. The idea was you could leave spools on the machine and put the lid on when you'd finished using it and the foam would keep them in place. > a "foamy" look to it. Next job after that is fixing the crack in the lid and If it is polystyrent then dichloromethane will stick it. > sticking the rexine back down in the areas where it's peeled off... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 1 18:56:03 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:02 2005 Subject: Finding shorts in boards In-Reply-To: <1101907290.32333.10.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Dec 1, 4 01:21:30 pm Message-ID: > > > I've got a board here with a short between ground and the +5V rail > (actually not quite dead - I'm getting around 10 ohms between the rails) > > Any useful tips for finding the fault? It's a large board, multi-layer, > lots of silicon on it unfortunately :-( 10 Ohms is not a short! It might even be the right resistance. Have you tried powering it up? > > Are there any particular components that are likely to fail in this way > that might be found across PSU rails? (decoupling caps, certain ICs, > crystal modules etc.?) Most times something shorts (particulalrly a decoupling capacitor) it goes dead short (<< 1 ohm). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 1 19:08:06 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:03 2005 Subject: NCR Tower PSU again In-Reply-To: <1101935781.32348.75.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Dec 1, 4 09:16:21 pm Message-ID: > > > Hmm, getting somewhere; found a dead triac near the input which was > supposed to bypass that 10 ohm resistor that was burning out once the > PSU had started up. Presumably the intention was to allow the PSU to > start a little more gracefully. YEs, quite a common soft-start circuit. > > Nice bodge story: I just found out why the system wasn't starting up at > all. It had been semi-dismantled since it had died years ago; I'd > reassembled it recently when trying to get it running again. > > After much wiring tracing I've just discovered although the cable > between the control panel and the backplane is keyed at both ends, at > one end the connector was on back to front. That hadn't stopped whoever > assembled it at the factory from hammering the keyed connector backwards > into its socket! Argh!. You want to find the idiot who built that system and connect his private parts to selected points on the mains side of that PSU :-) > Now, I'm getting a good 5.1V output, but there's a nasty wheezing noise > (not a whine!) from somewhere on the main PSU board. The +12V and -12V > rails are seriously up the spout. With a light load (just a couple of > fans), the fans spin up for a couple of seconds before everything shuts > down for a couple more seconds, then the cycle repeats (the wheezing > sounds like breathing at this point!). With no load the wheezing's > constant and the PSU doesn't shut down, but -12V rail is at -4V and +12V > rail is at +5.3V. It's not at all uncommon for the regulation to be taken from the 5V line, and the 12V lines either to 'tag along' or to have linear regulator circuits. I nthe latter case, particularly, the 12V lines will only work if there's a significant load on the 5V line, otherwise the PSU runs at such a low duty cycle (to keep the 5V line right with no load) that the 12V lines are very low. I would therefor try a respecable load on the 5V line and see what happens! -tony From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 19:38:05 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:03 2005 Subject: AIM thermal printer In-Reply-To: References: <000001c4d597$b6dfe140$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 07:43:06 -0500, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 17:15:04 -0500, Richard A. Cini wrote: > > If someone needs this, they should grab it: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5142464129&ssPageName=ADM > > E:B:SS:US:1 > > I'm on it... thanks for the tip. Won it... now I can rebuild one more AIM-65... (big thanks for the tip) If anyone happens to have a pile of defective printers, I'm interested, especially if there's a print element in the pile that works. I've rewired two or three printers into n-1 working printers, but one more (IIRC) would give me one print for each AIM-65 board I have. As I mentioned before, I need to build at least two replacement alphanum display boards... I have enough spare display segments to populate one at the moment. I picked up an auction last year with TIL-311s, these alphanum displays, and a couple of the HP displays for the Popular Electronics Elf (electrically but not physically compatible with TIL-311s). If only I could find another 5 or so alphanum displays and one more keyboard, I'd be set. At that point, I'd be ready to trade AIM-65s for other interesting stuff... once I have them fully loaded. I only need to keep one for myself. -ethan From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 19:42:15 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: Approaches to projects In-Reply-To: <200411291854.KAA04860@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200411291854.KAA04860@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:54:06 -0800 (PST), Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi Ethan > One can wire the 6532 and EPROM chip in place of the 6530. It does > require a little mapping because the selects most likely won't > be compatable but the rest should work. There is a fellow in > France that is doing this for Pinball machines. Right... I _think_ someone has a kit board for that - room for a 24-pin EPROM, a 6532, and some kind of select logic, perhaps a 20-pin GAL (16V8?) So, true, it could be worse... at least the functions of the 6530 can be approximated. -ethan From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 19:47:24 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: Anyone have a Seagate ST01 or 2 ? In-Reply-To: <001201c4d76d$53baba90$2101a8c0@finans> References: <20041130204204.BA0534859@spies.com> <001201c4d76d$53baba90$2101a8c0@finans> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 07:16:42 +0100, Nico de Jong wrote: > I had some brief experience with the ST01. > It is a SCSI adapter for XT's and AT's, and IIRC it could be fitted with a > boot bios. It could be used for SCSI-1 discs op to 100 MB or so, as there > was a limit on the number of cylinders it could handle. Hmm... didn't know the SC01 was so limited (the Adaptec 1541A is also limited, but not _that_ small - it's hundreds of MB) I rememer the SC01 as one of the early SCSI cards supported under Linux, back in the pre-1.0-kernel days (c. 1992, so on-topic) -ethan From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Dec 1 19:49:30 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: BYTEK 135 Help Message-ID: <01e001c4d811$40929b50$4e406b43@66067007> Anyone have the manual for a BYTEK 135 Multiprogrammer model 135-U/A From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 19:52:27 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: In NZ Message-ID: OK, all... After 57 weeks... I have escaped the South Pole and am spending some wonderful warm sunny days in Christchurch, NZ. Should be here for a few weeks, so if any Kiwis on this list would like to have a get-together, let me know by e-mail, and I'll pass on my mobile number (which I'll be getting in an hour or so when I pick up a sim card for a borrowed phone). I have plans to visit the North Island later this month, but for a few weeks, I'll be here, hanging out. Cheers, -ethan P.S.- for another week or so, I'll have my Elf and SBC-6120 with me before I consider mailing them home... if you want to see one... there's a brief window of opportunity. I have a week left of U.S. postal priveleges with the program. From rcini at optonline.net Wed Dec 1 20:45:26 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: OT: good CS textbooks for a DIYer Message-ID: <000001c4d818$fb0eea90$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Hello, all: I'm looking for recommendations on CS textbooks for myself...I'm embarking on sort of a DIY CS degree :-) Anyway, if anyone could recommend decent first-year and/or second-year books on algorithyms and data structures in C/C++, I would appreciate it. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Wed Dec 1 20:57:45 2004 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: RT-11 installation Message-ID: I'm finally getting around to trying to do something with my PDP-11/23 system and am having trouble creating bootable RT-11 V5 disks. I have an RX02 drive and a set of RX01 distribution disks. I've tried booting disk 1 of the RX01 distribution and that fails. Should I be able to boot an RX01 on an RX02 drive? Also, I've tried copying disks using: COPY/WAIT/OUTPUT:DY1: DY0: and then COPY/BOOT DY1:RT11FB.SYS DY1: Unfortunately, that doesn't result in a bootable disk. In fact, when I did it, it trashed the system disk in DY0 even though I removed it before and replaced it with the source disk of the copy. Does this sound like I've got a broken drive? I seem to be able to read either RX01 disks or RX02 disks in DY1 without any problem. Also, the copy I made in the first step above seems to be okay. It's just that I can't boot the disk after the second COPY/BOOT step. What dumb thing am I doing wrong? Thanks, David Betz From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Dec 1 21:10:46 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: OT: good CS textbooks for a DIYer In-Reply-To: <000001c4d818$fb0eea90$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> References: <000001c4d818$fb0eea90$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Message-ID: <20041201190624.B90257@shell.lmi.net> On Wed, 1 Dec 2004, Richard A. Cini wrote: > I'm looking for recommendations on CS textbooks for myself...I'm > embarking on sort of a DIY CS degree :-) > Anyway, if anyone could recommend decent first-year and/or > second-year books on algorithyms and data structures in C/C++, I would > appreciate it. 1) Knuth, Donald "The Art of Computer Programming" 3 volumes 2) Doctor Dobb's Journal once produced a CD-ROM of "Essential books on data structures and algorithms" It has several of the classic works. Any particular specialties in mind? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Dec 1 21:26:42 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: good CS textbooks for a DIYer References: <000001c4d818$fb0eea90$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Message-ID: <000901c4d81e$c14c2d30$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> The absolute, bar none, best book I own is "Data Structures" by Reingold and Hansen. It contains mostly mathmatically proven "best algorithms", or "standard time-proven algorithms" at the least. These particular algorithms are language independent, and are used over and over and over again in the real world. Full chapters each are given to lists (graphs & trees, doubly linked lists), searching, sorting, and memory management. While the algorithms are presented in language independent terms, the pseudo code they use is similar to C or PL/1. Unfortunately *sigh* many times these days I've seen programmers write cocktail sorts, being that is the extent of their sorting algorithm skills. Interesting to note, their N-way polyphase sort-merge is at the heart of the "SELECT" statement in Pick (Prime Information, Universe, etc. etc.). This book is simply put, the heart of complex software design. Their algorithms for tree/network traversal made it into the critical path determination code I wrote for a construction package that was later used to build some major landmarks in St. Louis. The programmer who wrote the initial draft, not using the above standard tree traversal algorithms, his code took about 24 hours to run and calculate the critical path and backward/forward float times. He was a very good programmer, but not formally compsci trained. I changed his internal algorithm to the one used in the above book, and it went down to about 20 minutes :) It's ALL about the algorithm. Another extremely good standard book is "Compilers: Principles, Techniques, and Tools" by Aho, Sethi, and Ullman. This book is very similar to the above in quality and material coverage - albeit obviously targeted at compiler design techniques, lexical and syntax analysis, symbol table generation, etc. If you're into compilers, this is "The Book". Even if you're NOT in to writing language processors, the algorithms in this book are very germane to general computer programming. Lastly, the third book on the "hallowed" section of my bookshelf is "The Design of the Unix Operating System", by Bach. While this book is clearly targeted at unix internals, again, the algorithms it presents are timeless and used in many more things than just OS design. For C programming, I have no good suggestions. There was one book that finally made it "click" for me, but I can't remember the name. The book I'm thinking of made a point of starting with only the built in statements of C (there's only about 11). Then they went into pointers and functions much later. Most books I tried first hit you with pointers and library functions way too early, scaring people off IMHO. My own two millidollars worth. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard A. Cini" To: "CCTalk (E-mail)" Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 8:45 PM Subject: OT: good CS textbooks for a DIYer > Hello, all: > > I'm looking for recommendations on CS textbooks for myself...I'm > embarking on sort of a DIY CS degree :-) > > Anyway, if anyone could recommend decent first-year and/or > second-year books on algorithyms and data structures in C/C++, I would > appreciate it. > > Thanks. > > Rich > > Rich Cini > Collector of classic computers > Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project > Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > /************************************************************/ > > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Dec 1 21:38:10 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (technoid) References: Message-ID: <004801c4d820$58dba800$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > >Yes. The problem with SSNs is that they are publicly accessible in I don't get it. I just don't see what the big deal is with knowing someone's SSN. People think it's magical key that can get you all kinds of information about someone. Bullsh*t. An SSN does NOT get you an entry into peoples private information. Not as the key anyways. And as a site note, it looked to me like the post was from a public information resource on a website, not from an internal law enforcement database. To make the post on-topic - btw - I believe the state and local police in St. Louis used a DG Eclipse back a few years for their criminal databases. Note to self - call them and find out where the systems are. It's well established that convicted felons DO loose privacy rights. Take, for example, pedophiles being required to notify neighbors, having their names posted on websites, etc. I think this is horribly wrong, but, it is a clear precedent that has been established. Jay West From allain at panix.com Wed Dec 1 21:43:22 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: good CS textbooks for a DIYer References: <000001c4d818$fb0eea90$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Message-ID: <081401c4d821$13248f60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Anyway, if anyone could recommend decent first-year > and/or second-year books on algorithms* and data > structures in C/C++, I would appreciate it. *corrected I liked this one as soon as I saw it: Introduction to Algorithms. Thomas H. Cormen et. al. McGraw Hill This after pleasant experiences reading books from these folks Aho, Hopcroft, Tennenbaum, Wirth, Ullman. I found it by browsing the best computer bookstore I knew, Computer Literacy. For here it would be Barnes & Noble NYC (33 E. 17th St). You can pile up 4 years college worth of books there and compare them all. People have also raved about "Books Scientific" but I have never been there. John A. From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Dec 1 21:48:29 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: RT-11 installation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41AE908D.6070500@mdrconsult.com> David Betz wrote: > I'm finally getting around to trying to do something with my PDP-11/23 > system and am having trouble creating bootable RT-11 V5 disks. I have an > RX02 drive and a set of RX01 distribution disks. I've tried booting disk > 1 of the RX01 distribution and that fails. Should I be able to boot an > RX01 on an RX02 drive? Also, I've tried copying disks using: > > COPY/WAIT/OUTPUT:DY1: DY0: > > and then > > COPY/BOOT DY1:RT11FB.SYS DY1: > > Unfortunately, that doesn't result in a bootable disk. In fact, when I > did it, it trashed the system disk in DY0 even though I removed it > before and replaced it with the source disk of the copy. Does this sound > like I've got a broken drive? I seem to be able to read either RX01 > disks or RX02 disks in DY1 without any problem. Also, the copy I made in > the first step above seems to be okay. It's just that I can't boot the > disk after the second COPY/BOOT step. > > What dumb thing am I doing wrong? I may be wrong - I'm a newbie with RT-11, but if DY1 in the second step is the same floppy as DY1: in the first step, I don't think RT11FB.SYS exists on DY1:. I believe you need the /SYS option to include *.SYS files in the file copy. Doc From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Wed Dec 1 22:02:01 2004 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: RT-11 installation In-Reply-To: <41AE908D.6070500@mdrconsult.com> References: <41AE908D.6070500@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: Oops. I made a mistake in my original post. The command I typed to copy the distribution disk was: SQUEEZE/WAIT/OUTPUT:DY1: DY0: That's what the installation instructions say to do anyway. I've actually gotten a boot disk created now. It seems that the V4 version of RT-11 I was originally using didn't really do the COPY/BOOT command correctly. I found another V4 boot disk and was able to use it to create a bootable V5 disk. I now have RT-11 V5 and the DECUS C compiler and linker all on one disk. This is something I could never do with my old PDT-11/150. It only had RX01 floppies and all that won't fit on a single density floppy. It's nice to have a bit more space with RX02 drives! Thanks for your help! David On Dec 1, 2004, at 10:48 PM, Doc Shipley wrote: > David Betz wrote: > >> I'm finally getting around to trying to do something with my >> PDP-11/23 system and am having trouble creating bootable RT-11 V5 >> disks. I have an RX02 drive and a set of RX01 distribution disks. >> I've tried booting disk 1 of the RX01 distribution and that fails. >> Should I be able to boot an RX01 on an RX02 drive? Also, I've tried >> copying disks using: >> COPY/WAIT/OUTPUT:DY1: DY0: >> and then >> COPY/BOOT DY1:RT11FB.SYS DY1: >> Unfortunately, that doesn't result in a bootable disk. In fact, when >> I did it, it trashed the system disk in DY0 even though I removed it >> before and replaced it with the source disk of the copy. Does this >> sound like I've got a broken drive? I seem to be able to read either >> RX01 disks or RX02 disks in DY1 without any problem. Also, the copy I >> made in the first step above seems to be okay. It's just that I can't >> boot the disk after the second COPY/BOOT step. >> What dumb thing am I doing wrong? > > I may be wrong - I'm a newbie with RT-11, but if DY1 in the second > step is the same floppy as DY1: in the first step, I don't think > RT11FB.SYS exists on DY1:. > > I believe you need the /SYS option to include *.SYS files in the > file copy. > > > Doc > From wayne.smith at charter.net Wed Dec 1 22:59:10 2004 From: wayne.smith at charter.net (Wayne Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (technoid) In-Reply-To: <200412011800.iB1I03jh064060@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000a01c4d82b$ad91e6b0$6501a8c0@Wayne> > Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 07:55:35 -0800 > From: "Zane H. Healy" > Subject: Re: Jeffrey Worley (technoid) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > >SSN: xxx-xx-xxxx > > Even if he is in Jail for Murder, posting that little tidbit of > information to the List is totally inappropriate. If that info is > publicly accessible on a Florida website then there is a problem > there as well. > > Zane > Zane, I just did a cut and paste - I didn't even notice the SSN. But let me guess, if you are guilty of murder you likely lose any privacy rights attached to your SSN. That's why, in this case, it's out there for all the public to see. Just like they post the names, photos and addresses of sex offenders on websites. But I guess that's "totally inappropriate" too. "Totally inappropriate"? In my book murder is "totally inappropriate." Making public the SSN of a convicted murderer, even if done intentionally, just isn't. At least, as the target of your "totally inappropriate" attack, that's my current take on it. -W From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 1 15:16:17 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: OT: good CS textbooks for a DIYer In-Reply-To: <000001c4d818$fb0eea90$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Dec 2004, Richard A. Cini wrote: > I'm looking for recommendations on CS textbooks for myself...I'm > embarking on sort of a DIY CS degree :-) > > Anyway, if anyone could recommend decent first-year and/or > second-year books on algorithyms and data structures in C/C++, I would > appreciate it. MIT OpenCourseware http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/ Free university courses! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Dec 1 23:54:09 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: HP 2748B paper tape reader (ebay) Message-ID: <00bb01c4d833$57a80f60$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5144629838&rd=1 If you could pick one... just ONE peripheral to put on an HP 2100 or 21MX, this would be it. He's including the cable and interface card too. Note, the cable will need a little work :) Jay From nico at farumdata.dk Thu Dec 2 01:16:47 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: Anyone have a Seagate ST01 or 2 ? References: <20041130204204.BA0534859@spies.com><001201c4d76d$53baba90$2101a8c0@finans> Message-ID: <002d01c4d83e$e309f8b0$2101a8c0@finans> > On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 07:16:42 +0100, Nico de Jong wrote: > > I had some brief experience with the ST01. > > It is a SCSI adapter for XT's and AT's, and IIRC it could be fitted with a > > boot bios. It could be used for SCSI-1 discs op to 100 MB or so, as there > > was a limit on the number of cylinders it could handle. > > Hmm... didn't know the SC01 was so limited (the Adaptec 1541A is also > limited, but not _that_ small - it's hundreds of MB) > Could be the 100 I talked about was _just_ the number of cylinders, not the capacity as such. I havnt used them for about 10-12 years, so details might be shady :-( Nico From wulfcub at gmail.com Thu Dec 2 01:19:40 2004 From: wulfcub at gmail.com (Wulf daMan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: Scortched Earth (was: Re: Sale of "free" stuff on eBay) In-Reply-To: <41ACBBD7.3060800@sbcglobal.net> References: <41ACBBD7.3060800@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:28:39 -0500, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Hmmm, that rings a bell. I remember playing a DOS game by that name. Up > 10 players, each has a tank in a 2-D screen, and you can blow the snot > out of (or from under) each other. Anybody else play that game? > Ahhh, the days of blasting away at my classmates during lunch... and class, for that matter... The game can still be found, in all it's glory, on the DOS Games Archive, and is shareware. (The Games Archive is found at http://www.dosgamesarchive.com ). Alternatively, you can get the new version (which I play quite a bit), Scorched Earth 3D, a more modern take on a great classic. SE3D can be found at http://www.scorchedearth3d.co.uk --Wulf N0WHG -- "If you live to be a hundred, I want to live to be a hundred minus one day, so I never have to live without you." -- Winnie The Pooh http://www.lungs4amber.org From wayne.smith at charter.net Thu Dec 2 02:11:03 2004 From: wayne.smith at charter.net (Wayne Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (technoid) Message-ID: <001101c4d846$79d74d40$6501a8c0@Wayne> -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Smith [mailto:wayne.smith@charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 8:59 PM To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' Subject: Re: Jeffrey Worley (technoid) > Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 07:55:35 -0800 > From: "Zane H. Healy" > Subject: Re: Jeffrey Worley (technoid) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > >SSN: xxx-xx-xxxx > > Even if he is in Jail for Murder, posting that little tidbit of > information to the List is totally inappropriate. If that info is > publicly accessible on a Florida website then there is a problem > there as well. > > Zane > There is likely another reason that SSN's for convicted felons are available, and that is to, as they say, "protect the innocent." Lots of people have names that are common with other people, and these databases are largely used by employers to do background checks on potential employees. Providing the SSN greatly reduces the risk of a false positive that could result if you only ran a search by name - in other words, if the SSN doesn't match, it isn't the same person. As some may recall, when Schwarzenegger was campaigning for governor in CA there was a woman who accused him of groping who was immediately identified by the Schwarzenegger campaign as having been previously convicted for prostitution. Turned out that the hooker was a different woman with the same name. All they needed were a couple of SSNs. -W From trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Thu Dec 2 05:30:31 2004 From: trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (trash3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: RT-11 installation Message-ID: <200412021130.iB2BUVTo008516@splab.cas.neu.edu> The RX01 used the DX driver and the RX01 used the DY driver. If the driver on the floppy does not match the actual drive, it will not boot. So, a normal RX01 floppy will not boot in an RX02 drive and vice versa. However, I THINK that if you used the wrong density floppy but put the right driver on it (An RX01 floppy with the DY driver as the boot driver) it will work, but that is not how the distributions were set up. Of course there are games you can play, like toggling in a bootstrap, but I don't think that was being asked. Well, anyway, that is what I remember of it, please, anyone, correct me if I'm wrong. Joe Heck From RCini at congressfinancial.com Thu Dec 2 08:59:56 2004 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: OT: good CS textbooks for a DIYer Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E501EAEEF7@mail10.congressfinancial.com> Sellam: This is an absolutely awesome site! Do any of the other major universities known for their science/technology have this -- like Stanford, CalTech or CMU? Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. First Vice President Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 4:16 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: OT: good CS textbooks for a DIYer On Wed, 1 Dec 2004, Richard A. Cini wrote: > I'm looking for recommendations on CS textbooks for myself...I'm > embarking on sort of a DIY CS degree :-) > > Anyway, if anyone could recommend decent first-year and/or > second-year books on algorithyms and data structures in C/C++, I would > appreciate it. MIT OpenCourseware http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/ Free university courses! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Dec 2 09:43:11 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: RT-11 installation References: Message-ID: <16815.14351.499000.378374@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "David" == David Betz writes: David> ...and then David> COPY/BOOT DY1:RT11FB.SYS DY1: David> Unfortunately, that doesn't result in a bootable disk. David> .... It's just that I can't boot David> the disk after the second COPY/BOOT step. I believe the OS image you want to boot HAS to be called MONITR.SYS on the bootable disk. paul From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Thu Dec 2 09:49:49 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: RT-11 installation In-Reply-To: References: <41AE908D.6070500@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <41AF399D.7020408@compsys.to> >David Betz wrote: > Oops. I made a mistake in my original post. The command I typed to > copy the distribution disk was: > > SQUEEZE/WAIT/OUTPUT:DY1: DY0: > > That's what the installation instructions say to do anyway. > > I've actually gotten a boot disk created now. It seems that the V4 > version of RT-11 I was originally using didn't really do the COPY/BOOT > command correctly. I found another V4 boot disk and was able to use it > to create a bootable V5 disk. I now have RT-11 V5 and the DECUS C > compiler and linker all on one disk. This is something I could never > do with my old PDT-11/150. It only had RX01 floppies and all that > won't fit on a single density floppy. It's nice to have a bit more > space with RX02 drives! Jerome Fine replies: Even though the CSR/VECTOR addresses of RX01 and RX02 drives are the same, they are VERY different programs with regard to the device drivers, DX.SYS and DY.SYS, respectively. Thus, an RX01 bootable floppy can't boot in an RX02 drive and visa versa. HOWEVER, although it is NOT possible to read an RX02 floppy (with double density data or 988 blocks on the floppy) on an RX01 drive, it is possible and NORMAL to read an RX01 floppy (with single density data or 494 blocks on the floppy) on an RX02 drive. You probably understand this now, but other RT-11 users may not. In addition, the device driver for the PDT is again different (as far as I understand) from the RX01 device driver even though the media is the same (again as far as I understand). NOTE that I have never used a PDT system. As for more recent distributions of RT-11 up to V05.03 of RT-11, they are available at: http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/dists/ If you can manage to have a hard disk drive with the PDP-11/23, that makes like even better. While a SCSI host adapter is still expensive, SCSI drives are not. An RQDXn controller is low in cost, but decent compatible hard drives are hard to find. Don't try to use an RD53 since they are no longer reliable. RD52 drives are still OK, as are RD51 drives which are just 10 MByte Seagate ST-412 drives. How you transfer them to your PDP-11/23 is a problem I can't help you with. For myself, I use the MSCP device driver, DU.SYS, which I have on both a PC (under E11 with a Sony SMO S-501 and an Adaptec AHA-2904AU) and the real DEC hardware (with a the CQD-220/TM host adapter and the same SMO S-501). In addition, DSD produced an RX03 compatible floppy media which is able to use RX02 media PLUS double sided RX02 compatible media. While DEC never did correct the code in DY.MAC to allow for double sided drives (it was present in V04.00 of RT-11), a DYX.SYS device driver is available which handles RX03 media on the DSD which also allows the use of memory beyond the 256 KByte boundary via a bounce buffer. It is also possible to re-wire a DSD drive so that single-sided media are used rather than punching the extra holes in the floppies when the user wants to use both sides of the floppy. A DPDT switch allows the user to select how the floppy is used. If you have any RT-11 questions, please ask! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Dec 2 09:56:38 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: "SPARC workstation Model 51 on eBay Message-ID: No really sure that this is what it says it is - looks kinda military to me... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=5143935062&rd=1 Anyway, interested parties are referred thereto. Cheers John From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Thu Dec 2 10:09:23 2004 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: RT-11 installation In-Reply-To: <41AF399D.7020408@compsys.to> References: <41AE908D.6070500@mdrconsult.com> <41AF399D.7020408@compsys.to> Message-ID: <88422D4A-447C-11D9-A45F-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> Thanks for your comments! I guess what confused me was that both DX.SYS and DY.SYS are present on my RX01 distribution disk 1. Maybe the problem is that whatever is written by COPY/BOOT isn't compatible with the RX02 drive? As you suggest, I can read the RX01 media fine once I've booted off of an RX02 disk. In any case, I've gotten past this problem and now have a bootable RX02 disk with RT-11 V5 and the DECUS C compiler. I'm working on getting Kermit copied over. On Dec 2, 2004, at 10:49 AM, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > >David Betz wrote: > >> Oops. I made a mistake in my original post. The command I typed to >> copy the distribution disk was: >> >> SQUEEZE/WAIT/OUTPUT:DY1: DY0: >> >> That's what the installation instructions say to do anyway. >> >> I've actually gotten a boot disk created now. It seems that the V4 >> version of RT-11 I was originally using didn't really do the >> COPY/BOOT command correctly. I found another V4 boot disk and was >> able to use it to create a bootable V5 disk. I now have RT-11 V5 and >> the DECUS C compiler and linker all on one disk. This is something I >> could never do with my old PDT-11/150. It only had RX01 floppies and >> all that won't fit on a single density floppy. It's nice to have a >> bit more space with RX02 drives! > > Jerome Fine replies: > > Even though the CSR/VECTOR addresses of RX01 and RX02 > drives are the same, they are VERY different programs > with regard to the device drivers, DX.SYS and DY.SYS, > respectively. Thus, an RX01 bootable floppy can't > boot in an RX02 drive and visa versa. > > HOWEVER, although it is NOT possible to read an RX02 > floppy (with double density data or 988 blocks on the > floppy) on an RX01 drive, it is possible and NORMAL > to read an RX01 floppy (with single density data or > 494 blocks on the floppy) on an RX02 drive. > > You probably understand this now, but other RT-11 users > may not. > > In addition, the device driver for the PDT is again > different (as far as I understand) from the RX01 device > driver even though the media is the same (again as far as > I understand). NOTE that I have never used a PDT system. > > As for more recent distributions of RT-11 up to V05.03 > of RT-11, they are available at: > http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/dists/ > > If you can manage to have a hard disk drive with > the PDP-11/23, that makes like even better. While > a SCSI host adapter is still expensive, SCSI drives > are not. An RQDXn controller is low in cost, but > decent compatible hard drives are hard to find. > Don't try to use an RD53 since they are no longer > reliable. RD52 drives are still OK, as are RD51 > drives which are just 10 MByte Seagate ST-412 drives. > > How you transfer them to your PDP-11/23 is a problem > I can't help you with. For myself, I use the MSCP > device driver, DU.SYS, which I have on both a PC > (under E11 with a Sony SMO S-501 and an Adaptec > AHA-2904AU) and the real DEC hardware (with a the > CQD-220/TM host adapter and the same SMO S-501). > > In addition, DSD produced an RX03 compatible > floppy media which is able to use RX02 media > PLUS double sided RX02 compatible media. While > DEC never did correct the code in DY.MAC to allow > for double sided drives (it was present in V04.00 > of RT-11), a DYX.SYS device driver is available > which handles RX03 media on the DSD which also > allows the use of memory beyond the 256 KByte > boundary via a bounce buffer. It is also possible > to re-wire a DSD drive so that single-sided media > are used rather than punching the extra holes in > the floppies when the user wants to use both sides > of the floppy. A DPDT switch allows the user to > select how the floppy is used. > > If you have any RT-11 questions, please ask! > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > -- > If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail > address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk > e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be > obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the > 'at' with the four digits of the current year. > From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 2 10:57:09 2004 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: Scortched Earth In-Reply-To: References: <41ACBBD7.3060800@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <41AF4965.6070103@sbcglobal.net> Wulf daMan wrote: > On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:28:39 -0500, David Woyciesjes > wrote: > > >> Hmmm, that rings a bell. I remember playing a DOS game by that name. Up >>10 players, each has a tank in a 2-D screen, and you can blow the snot >>out of (or from under) each other. Anybody else play that game? >> > > > Ahhh, the days of blasting away at my classmates during lunch... and > class, for that matter... The game can still be found, in all it's > glory, on the DOS Games Archive, and is shareware. (The Games Archive > is found at http://www.dosgamesarchive.com ). > Alternatively, you can get the new version (which I play quite a > bit), Scorched Earth 3D, a more modern take on a great classic. SE3D > can be found at http://www.scorchedearth3d.co.uk > > --Wulf > N0WHG Hmmm, seems like that web site doesn't exist anymore. And a quick google search doesn't help either... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Dec 2 11:06:42 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (technoid) Message-ID: <0412021706.AA06734@ivan.Harhan.ORG> OK, time for me to speak up. This thread is going in the totally wrong direction. Why is everyone talking about silly stupid shit like SSNs? Why is no one organising a posse to level the Bastille prison with the ground and free our ClassicCmp comrade so he can once again work with us on Classic Computers? Jeffrey Worley was and is a great guy, a real hero in my book. OK, he killed his dad, so what. If Jeffrey killed him, it was most certainly for just cause and the guy deserved to die. He was most probably being a dictator in the house and tormenting Jeffrey (by interfering with his ClassicCmp work, by telling him to get a Weendoze job, or somesuch); and he was rightfully overthrown and executed for his crimes by the oppressed citizenry. MS From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Dec 2 11:53:39 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: NCR Tower PSU again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1102010019.1486.24.camel@weka.localdomain> > > > > Nice bodge story: I just found out why the system wasn't starting up at > > all. It had been semi-dismantled since it had died years ago; I'd > > reassembled it recently when trying to get it running again. > > > > After much wiring tracing I've just discovered although the cable > > between the control panel and the backplane is keyed at both ends, at > > one end the connector was on back to front. That hadn't stopped whoever > > assembled it at the factory from hammering the keyed connector backwards > > into its socket! > > Argh!. You want to find the idiot who built that system and connect his > private parts to selected points on the mains side of that PSU :-) Yahuh. I'm going to tie a label to that cable to remind me to connect it backwards the next time the machine's in bits - grr! > I would therefor try a respecable load on the 5V line and see what happens! Turns out my series light bulb was screwing it up when under a slight load (rather than free running) and causing it to stop-start, although I'm not quite sure why. Ditching the lightbulb and replacing with a 4.7 ohm / 5W resistor sorted that out and it all sprang to life :-) I still need a proper 10 ohm resistor to replace the one that failed (I nuked my only spare too) - I'll scrounge on off the Colossus guys... Looking good though :-) cheers for all your help, Jules From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Dec 2 12:07:33 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: Blinking Light program for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <000e01c4d7b6$a309ba80$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20041202115035.02571de8@mail.ubanproductions.com> Hi Ashley, Did you get a response on your question? One point to keep in mind is that the various processor types behave slightly differently. The typical method used to do the "Cylon" lamp effect was to use the console switch/display register (777570). A pseudo code program would be something like this (translation left as an exercise for you:-): Write '1' to console display register. Lamp Loop: Load spin count into register 2. Spin Loop: Decrement register 2. Branch if non-zero to Spin Loop. Rotate the console display register value left. Branch to Lamp Loop. This code will continually rotate one lamp from right to left across the display. A more complex version would switch directions when the lamp hits either end. Now for the problem. Only some processors (45, 70, perhaps others, but I don't think the 35 or 40) support display of the console switch/display register. There may be some other more generic method that works on all processors, but I'm not sure what it might be... --tom At 10:01 AM 12/1/2004 -0500, you wrote: >I seem to recall seeing a little program that >can be toggled into a PDP-11 (35/40/45/etc) that >will create a "rolling lights" pattern on the >front panel console, where the lights roll to the >right and left, off and on. Can anyone here on >the list point me to that program? I know that I >saw it somewhere on the internet. I'd like to >toggle that program in on my system. > >On another note, I got my ASR-33 working, connected >online via 20mA DZ11 connection to my 11/34. I had >the send/recv wires crossed. It works perfectly now. > >Ashley From wacarder at usit.net Thu Dec 2 12:32:37 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: Blinking Light program for PDP-11 References: <5.2.0.9.0.20041202115035.02571de8@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <002801c4d89d$4cd1f5f0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> >Tom Uban wrote: > > Ashley, > Did you get a response on your question? One point > to keep in mind is that the various processor types > behave slightly differently. The typical method used > to do the "Cylon" lamp effect was to use the console > switch/display register (777570). A pseudo code program > would be something like this (translation left as an > exercise for you:-): > > Write '1' to console display register. > Lamp Loop: > Load spin count into register 2. > Spin Loop: > Decrement register 2. > Branch if non-zero to Spin Loop. > > Rotate the console display register value left. > Branch to Lamp Loop. > > This code will continually rotate one lamp from right to > left across the display. A more complex version would switch > directions when the lamp hits either end. > > Now for the problem. Only some processors (45, 70, perhaps > others, but I don't think the 35 or 40) support display of > the console switch/display register. > > There may be some other more generic method that works on > all processors, but I'm not sure what it might be... Hi Tom, I got a little "single rotating bit" program, coutesy of Guy Sotomayor, who's been a *BIG* help to me. I used this little program to do some basic testing on my PDP-11/40. It continually rotates one lamp across the display. This program was loaded as follows: Load address 001000 Deposit 005000 Deposit 005200 Deposit 006100 Deposit 000005 Deposit 000775 Load address 001000 and press Start. You should see a bit rotate around on the data LEDs. If anyone has any more interesting programs that can be toggled in for "blinking light" effects, I'd be interested in trying them out. After toggling in a couple of these types of things with the front panel last night, I decided to move on to bigger things. I hooked up an RL02 and was able to successfully boot RT11 v5.3, XXDP 2.5, and my Wofford Witch RSTS/E v7 system. Life is good!!! Ashley From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Dec 2 12:38:18 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:04 2005 Subject: RT-11 installation In-Reply-To: Paul Koning "Re: RT-11 installation" (Dec 2, 10:43) References: <16815.14351.499000.378374@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <10412021838.ZM13100@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 2 2004, 10:43, Paul Koning wrote: > >>>>> "David" == David Betz writes: > > David> ...and then > > David> COPY/BOOT DY1:RT11FB.SYS DY1: > > David> Unfortunately, that doesn't result in a bootable disk. > David> .... It's just that I can't boot > David> the disk after the second COPY/BOOT step. > > I believe the OS image you want to boot HAS to be called MONITR.SYS on > the bootable disk. Only in really ancient versions of RT-11; not in V5. David's problem may have been that the RT11FB.SYS was SYSGENed inappropriately. The COPY/BOOT copies a section of the monitor into block 0 of the disk. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Dec 2 13:28:01 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Blinking Light program for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <002801c4d89d$4cd1f5f0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20041202115035.02571de8@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20041202131741.023b2178@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 01:32 PM 12/2/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >Tom Uban wrote: > > > > Ashley, > > Did you get a response on your question? One point > > to keep in mind is that the various processor types > > behave slightly differently. The typical method used > > to do the "Cylon" lamp effect was to use the console > > switch/display register (777570). A pseudo code program > > would be something like this (translation left as an > > exercise for you:-): > > > > Write '1' to console display register. > > Lamp Loop: > > Load spin count into register 2. > > Spin Loop: > > Decrement register 2. > > Branch if non-zero to Spin Loop. > > > > Rotate the console display register value left. > > Branch to Lamp Loop. > > > > This code will continually rotate one lamp from right to > > left across the display. A more complex version would switch > > directions when the lamp hits either end. > > > > Now for the problem. Only some processors (45, 70, perhaps > > others, but I don't think the 35 or 40) support display of > > the console switch/display register. > > > > There may be some other more generic method that works on > > all processors, but I'm not sure what it might be... > > >Hi Tom, > >I got a little "single rotating bit" program, coutesy of Guy Sotomayor, >who's been a *BIG* help to me. I used this little program to do some >basic testing on my PDP-11/40. It continually rotates one lamp across >the display. This program was loaded as follows: > >Load address 001000 >Deposit 005000 >Deposit 005200 >Deposit 006100 >Deposit 000005 >Deposit 000775 >Load address 001000 and press Start. >You should see a bit rotate around on the data LEDs. > >If anyone has any more interesting programs that can be toggled in >for "blinking light" effects, I'd be interested in trying them out. > >After toggling in a couple of these types of things with the front >panel last night, I decided to move on to bigger things. I hooked up >an RL02 and was able to successfully boot RT11 v5.3, XXDP 2.5, >and my Wofford Witch RSTS/E v7 system. > >Life is good!!! > >Ashley Hi Ashley, Good enough. FWIW, Guy's program decodes to the following: 001000 005000 CLR R0 001002 005200 1: INC R0 001004 006100 ROL R0 001006 000005 RESET 001010 000775 JMP 1B The instruction of interest is the RESET, which sends an INIT to the UNIBUS for 10ms. It must also have the effect of displaying the contents of R0 in the DATA display, or perhaps whatever register was last referenced. I figured that there was an instruction which would behave in this manor, but did not recall what it was... --tom From tomj at wps.com Thu Dec 2 13:32:01 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (technoid) In-Reply-To: <004801c4d820$58dba800$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <004801c4d820$58dba800$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Dec 2004, Jay West wrote: > > > Yes. The problem with SSNs is that they are publicly accessible in > > I don't get it. I just don't see what the big deal is with knowing someone's > SSN. > > People think it's magical key that can get you all kinds of information about > someone. Bullsh*t. An SSN does NOT get you an entry into peoples private > information. Not as the key anyways. In a "real" world that would be true. In fact, right now, for one simple example, with your cellphone # and soc sec, I could add a phone to your service, disconnect you, buy things, etc. all because stupid lazy corporations rely on "last four of your soc sec" for "security". From tomj at wps.com Thu Dec 2 13:35:26 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (technoid) In-Reply-To: <000a01c4d82b$ad91e6b0$6501a8c0@Wayne> References: <000a01c4d82b$ad91e6b0$6501a8c0@Wayne> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Dec 2004, Wayne Smith wrote: > "Totally inappropriate"? In my book murder is "totally inappropriate." > Making public the SSN of a convicted murderer, even if done > intentionally, just isn't. It's not a 'moral' issue for you or me to decide; it's law. Never mind the slippery slope... OK murderers it's OK to scam their SSN, but grand theft? Pot smokers? Etc... This is what law is FOR. Just because the guy is a murderer -- even -- doesn't mean it's OK for us to throw rocks at him as he passes by. I think this thread qualifies as OT where O=off. From wacarder at usit.net Thu Dec 2 13:47:54 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Blinking Light program for PDP-11 References: <5.2.0.9.0.20041202115035.02571de8@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20041202131741.023b2178@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <000601c4d8a7$d128b320$f71b0f14@wcarder1> > > Hi Ashley, > > Good enough. > > FWIW, Guy's program decodes to the following: > > 001000 005000 CLR R0 > 001002 005200 1: INC R0 > 001004 006100 ROL R0 > 001006 000005 RESET > 001010 000775 JMP 1B > > The instruction of interest is the RESET, which sends an INIT to > the UNIBUS for 10ms. It must also have the effect of displaying > the contents of R0 in the DATA display, or perhaps whatever register > was last referenced. I figured that there was an instruction which > would behave in this manor, but did not recall what it was... > > --tom Tom, Thanks for decoding it. I had planned to pull out my 11/40 handbook and do that as well, but haven't gotten around to it. After getting the machine running smoothly and booting several various bootable packs, I decided to take the rest of the night off. Ashley From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Dec 2 13:41:22 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: header pin out for pdp-11/44 console (M7090)? Message-ID: <200412021941.iB2JfMpK028468@mwave.heeltoe.com> Hi, Does anyone have a schematic for an M7090 (11/44 console card) or know the pin out of the 20 pin header for the console cable? I searched and could not find anything. I don't have a console cable for my 11/44 and I'm sick of coding in TI DSP assembler and need a pdp 11 fix. I have all the parts to make a hack cable but don't know the pinout. I suppose I should read the 11/44 manual :-) where is the console baud rate set? (ok, ok, I'll go read the manual). -brad From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Dec 2 14:23:26 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Blinking Light program for PDP-11 References: <000e01c4d7b6$a309ba80$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <5.2.0.9.0.20041202115035.02571de8@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <16815.31166.873000.891918@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Uban writes: Tom> Hi Ashley, Did you get a response on your question? One point to Tom> keep in mind is that the various processor types behave slightly Tom> differently. The typical method used to do the "Cylon" lamp Tom> effect was to use the console switch/display register Tom> (777570). There are actually two basic approaches. The switch register one is used by RT11. The other one relies on the fact that R0 is displayed in the data lights when a WAIT instruction is executing. RSTS (and I think the other OSs) use that. Then there's the amazingly warped "fancy lights" option in RSTS, where both the data AND the address lights rotate -- in opposite directions. That one I'll leave as a challenge for the student. One hint: it's only supported on machines that have supervisor mode. paul From kapteynr at cboe.com Thu Dec 2 14:39:01 2004 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Kapteyn, Rob) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Blinking Light program for PDP-11 Message-ID: This brings back fond memories of a similar program for the Altair, called "Kill the bit". It might have been the first working program I tried on my Altair (certainly the first "game"). It is about 20-30 instructions that can be keyed in manually. The code is in one of the Altair newsletters. Rob From auringer at tds.net Thu Dec 2 14:50:24 2004 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Milwaukee Computers Inc. Message-ID: <41AF8010.7020604@tds.net> Hi All, I have in my possession a machine from Milwaukee Computers Inc. It is part of the MC-1000 series, specifically it is a model MC-1200. In the wood sided enclosure there is a 6502 single board computer and a pair of 5-1/4 floppy drives. The silkscreen on the board has the company name and 1982. The only documentation I have, is the USCD Pascal Users Manual with the Milwaukee Computers name on it. Does anyone know anything about the company, or the box? Jon From aek at spies.com Thu Dec 2 15:01:02 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Impressively priced schematics Message-ID: <20041202210102.7198145EB@spies.com> For yucks, I asked for a quote on some schematics from "3prime-solutions.com" that were listed on their web site (11/84 and HSC50 schems..) MP-01426-00......USD$2805 MP-01955-01......USD$1356 MP-02011-01......USD$1617 From aek at spies.com Thu Dec 2 15:03:56 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Milwaukee Computers Inc. Message-ID: <20041202210356.0CBB94839@spies.com> Does anyone know anything about the company, or the box? -- I have one as well. What version of UCSD pascal is the manual for? I've been trying to find a boot floppy for mine for a while now. I remember Milwaukee Computers demoing the machine at a computer club meeting of the Wisconsin Computer Society in the late 70's.. From auringer at tds.net Thu Dec 2 15:32:49 2004 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Milwaukee Computers Inc. In-Reply-To: <20041202210356.0CBB94839@spies.com> References: <20041202210356.0CBB94839@spies.com> Message-ID: <41AF8A01.8070901@tds.net> Al Kossow wrote: > I have one as well. What version of UCSD pascal is the manual for? USCD p-SYSTEM and USCD PASCAL A PRODUCT FOR MINI- AND MICRO-COMPUTERS Version IV.0 USERS' MANUAL Second Edition: January 1981 SofTech Microsystems, Inc. San Diego 1981 > I've been trying to find a boot floppy for mine for a while now. I have a box of floppies also. All have hand written labels. One pair says system disk master / non-system disk master. There are also ones that are labeled: basic / CPR Word Processor / Spreadsheet, pascal, assembler, encrypt. There are also a pair of disks in the floppy drives that don't want to come out. I can try to make disk images for you. I have been meaning to set up a machine to do that for another project. > I remember Milwaukee Computers demoing the machine at a computer club > meeting of the Wisconsin Computer Society in the late 70's.. I have to assume you lived in or near Wisconsin at that time. True? Jon From jdboyd at jdboyd.net Thu Dec 2 15:31:35 2004 From: jdboyd at jdboyd.net (Joshua Boyd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Acard LVD-to-IDE Bridge In-Reply-To: <200411292040.iATKebIJ001008@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200411292040.iATKebIJ001008@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <20041202213135.GA3794@jdboyd.zill.net> On Mon, Nov 29, 2004 at 12:40:36PM -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Has anyone played with the LVD SCSI to IDE bridges that Acard is selling > now? I'm trying to figure out if they'll sync down to the speed of the SCSI > bus that they're plugged into. I'm thinking about getting a SCSI-to-IDE > bridge for my VMS system which currently uses UW-SCSI. If it will work, I'd > just as soon buy a LVD bridge, as they're cheaper and will be better when I > finally upgrade my VMS system. > > I'm tending to suspect they don't sync down, as they sell U-SCSI, UW-SCSI > and U160 LVD SCSI models. I have a UW-SCSI model, and it works on a U-SCSI bus. The U-SCSI and UW-SCSI models have different firmware. U-SCSI firmware has a lot more tweaks to support CD/DVD type devices, while the UW-SCSI model is meant for harddrives, and they don't seem to care if CD/DVD type devices don't work properly on that model. The U160 device is a newer more expensive device. I guess maybe they keep the UW around for people to have a cheaper option. My Acard is just sitting in the parts bin since it wouldn't make CD-RWs play nicely on my Octane. I intend to sometime try a DVD burner on my U30 with this unit, but the confirmed reports of people using DVD burners on acards on solars always involved either the U model or the U160 model, and as I said, the firmwares are different. Sigh. -- Joshua D. Boyd jdboyd@jdboyd.net http://www.jdboyd.net/ http://www.joshuaboyd.org/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Dec 2 15:46:19 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Reel-to-reel tape decks (was: Re: ZX81 denigrated!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In message ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > Do you have access to Poole and Molloy (say in a good public library > [1])? Hahaha... Good public library... ROFLMAO! That's a laugh. Most of the really useful stuff that the Leeds central library (and most of the other libraries) had has been lost, stolen or downright destroyed over the years. I'll pop in tomorrow and see if it's listed on the catalogue. Even if it's reference-only, it should be easy enough to get some photocopies made. > Quitel likely. A normal 3 pin DIN plug will fit, and only the normal 3 > pins are electricallly used. As I've found out - I've got a crystal microphone hooked up with a 3-pin DIN. Not too difficult :) > Quite likely. I think origianlly there was a foam pad over each spool > turntable. The idea was you could leave spools on the machine and put the > lid on when you'd finished using it and the foam would keep them in place. I suppose the best option to deal with that would be to sand off the remains of whatever adhesive was used with Wet-n-Dry paper, then glue some fresh foam on. The problem being finding some foam that looks original. > > a "foamy" look to it. Next job after that is fixing the crack in the lid and > > If it is polystyrent then dichloromethane will stick it. [ checks MSDS ] Known carcinogen, suspected human carcinogen, suspected mutagen. No thanks. I think some of the modelling shops around here sell polystyrene cement - that should do the job. The big problem will be getting the hot-melt glue that's on there now off the casing. It seems to be stuck pretty well. Best option might be to crack most of it off, then remove the rest by rubbing lightly with sandpaper to take it off layer-by-layer... > > sticking the rexine back down in the areas where it's peeled off... Not sure what to use for that though. Again, the previous owner (I prefer the term "wannabe restorer") tried Superglue. Yah, that worked really well. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Brain: apparatus used to think we think. From aek at spies.com Thu Dec 2 16:11:27 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Milwaukee Computers Inc. Message-ID: <20041202221127.056EC4887@spies.com> > I can try to make disk images for you. -- thanks! I dumped the eproms a while ago. One of them is labeled "MFM 10 sec" which should be a pretty good clue as to their format One of the dumps starts out: Copyright (C) 1982 Milwaukee Computers, Inc. 16235 Ryerson Rd. New Berlin, WI 53151 414-784-2312 Ryerson is in an industrial park in New Berlin, which is a western suburb of Milwaukee. From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Dec 2 16:13:20 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: header pin out for pdp-11/44 console (M7090)? In-Reply-To: <200412021941.iB2JfMpK028468@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200412021941.iB2JfMpK028468@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Dec 2004, Brad Parker wrote: > > Hi, > > Does anyone have a schematic for an M7090 (11/44 console card) > or know the pin out of the 20 pin header for the console cable? > > I searched and could not find anything. > > I don't have a console cable for my 11/44 and I'm sick of coding in TI > DSP assembler and need a pdp 11 fix. I have the complete doc set for my 11/44 system - if you haven't been able to get this info by this evening (Nevada Time [PST]) I'd be pleased to furnish it. Let us know if you get it going... Cheers John From dundas at caltech.edu Thu Dec 2 16:26:40 2004 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: OT: good CS textbooks for a DIYer In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E501EAEEF7@mail10.congressfinancial.com> References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E501EAEEF7@mail10.congressfinancial.com> Message-ID: At 9:59 AM -0500 12/2/04, Cini, Richard wrote: >Sellam: > > This is an absolutely awesome site! Do any of the other major >universities known for their science/technology have this -- like Stanford, >CalTech or CMU? I can tell you for a fact that Caltech does not and will not for the foreseeable future. John From auringer at tds.net Thu Dec 2 16:40:58 2004 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Milwaukee Computers Inc. In-Reply-To: <20041202221127.056EC4887@spies.com> References: <20041202221127.056EC4887@spies.com> Message-ID: <41AF99FA.1010901@tds.net> Al Kossow wrote: > thanks! I dumped the eproms a while ago. One of them is labeled "MFM > 10 sec" which should be a pretty good clue as to their format That's what mine says also. Do you have a suggestion as to the best program / image format to use? By the way, I freed the other two disks. It seems as though the disk retaining catches on both drives were staying down when the latches were opened. "first #4" and "second #5" came out looking fine. > Milwaukee Computers, Inc. 16235 Ryerson Rd. New Berlin, WI 53151 Same as on the manual. > Ryerson is in an industrial park in New Berlin, which is a western > suburb of Milwaukee. I am a little familiar with the area. I live and work in the Madison area. Jon From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Thu Dec 2 17:01:19 2004 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: RT-11 installation In-Reply-To: <41AF399D.7020408@compsys.to> References: <41AE908D.6070500@mdrconsult.com> <41AF399D.7020408@compsys.to> Message-ID: <13BD681D-44B6-11D9-A45F-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> Well, I'm seriously considering divesting myself of actual PDP-11 hardware in favor of just running RT-11 on simh. After all, I'm really a software guy. It *is* fun playing with the old hardware though and it's nice to actually handle the Q-Bus cards. I enjoyed hearing the clacking of the RX02 drives as I ran the DECUS C compiler and assembler. On the other hand, it would be nice to get back some floor and closet space. I wonder if anyone would like to trade an 11/23 and RX02 for one of the smaller pedestal units? On Dec 2, 2004, at 10:49 AM, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > >David Betz wrote: > >> Oops. I made a mistake in my original post. The command I typed to >> copy the distribution disk was: >> >> SQUEEZE/WAIT/OUTPUT:DY1: DY0: >> >> That's what the installation instructions say to do anyway. >> >> I've actually gotten a boot disk created now. It seems that the V4 >> version of RT-11 I was originally using didn't really do the >> COPY/BOOT command correctly. I found another V4 boot disk and was >> able to use it to create a bootable V5 disk. I now have RT-11 V5 and >> the DECUS C compiler and linker all on one disk. This is something I >> could never do with my old PDT-11/150. It only had RX01 floppies and >> all that won't fit on a single density floppy. It's nice to have a >> bit more space with RX02 drives! > > Jerome Fine replies: > > Even though the CSR/VECTOR addresses of RX01 and RX02 > drives are the same, they are VERY different programs > with regard to the device drivers, DX.SYS and DY.SYS, > respectively. Thus, an RX01 bootable floppy can't > boot in an RX02 drive and visa versa. > > HOWEVER, although it is NOT possible to read an RX02 > floppy (with double density data or 988 blocks on the > floppy) on an RX01 drive, it is possible and NORMAL > to read an RX01 floppy (with single density data or > 494 blocks on the floppy) on an RX02 drive. > > You probably understand this now, but other RT-11 users > may not. > > In addition, the device driver for the PDT is again > different (as far as I understand) from the RX01 device > driver even though the media is the same (again as far as > I understand). NOTE that I have never used a PDT system. > > As for more recent distributions of RT-11 up to V05.03 > of RT-11, they are available at: > http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/dists/ > > If you can manage to have a hard disk drive with > the PDP-11/23, that makes like even better. While > a SCSI host adapter is still expensive, SCSI drives > are not. An RQDXn controller is low in cost, but > decent compatible hard drives are hard to find. > Don't try to use an RD53 since they are no longer > reliable. RD52 drives are still OK, as are RD51 > drives which are just 10 MByte Seagate ST-412 drives. > > How you transfer them to your PDP-11/23 is a problem > I can't help you with. For myself, I use the MSCP > device driver, DU.SYS, which I have on both a PC > (under E11 with a Sony SMO S-501 and an Adaptec > AHA-2904AU) and the real DEC hardware (with a the > CQD-220/TM host adapter and the same SMO S-501). > > In addition, DSD produced an RX03 compatible > floppy media which is able to use RX02 media > PLUS double sided RX02 compatible media. While > DEC never did correct the code in DY.MAC to allow > for double sided drives (it was present in V04.00 > of RT-11), a DYX.SYS device driver is available > which handles RX03 media on the DSD which also > allows the use of memory beyond the 256 KByte > boundary via a bounce buffer. It is also possible > to re-wire a DSD drive so that single-sided media > are used rather than punching the extra holes in > the floppies when the user wants to use both sides > of the floppy. A DPDT switch allows the user to > select how the floppy is used. > > If you have any RT-11 questions, please ask! > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > -- > If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail > address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk > e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be > obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the > 'at' with the four digits of the current year. > From vcf at siconic.com Thu Dec 2 09:50:22 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: OT: good CS textbooks for a DIYer In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E501EAEEF7@mail10.congressfinancial.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Dec 2004, Cini, Richard wrote: > This is an absolutely awesome site! Do any of the other major > universities known for their science/technology have this -- like Stanford, > CalTech or CMU? I'm not sure. MIT's Open Courseware was a pretty big deal when it came out: a lot of people were excited by the idea (and still are I imagine). Now, anyone, anywhere (with an internet connection) can get an MIT education. Cool! I'm pretty sure there are other free online university courses offered by other institutions, but come on, this is MIT...why go anywhere else? :) Let us know when you graduate so we can throw you a virtual party :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aek at spies.com Thu Dec 2 17:56:46 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Milwaukee Computers Inc. Message-ID: <20041202235646.E3A664886@spies.com> Do you have a suggestion as to the best program / image format to use? -- I use Eric Smith's rfloppy program under Linux dmklib.brouhaha.com If you get a chance, I'd like to scan a copy of the manual to add to my archive on the machine. From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Dec 2 18:22:37 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: OT: good CS textbooks for a DIYer In-Reply-To: from Vintage Computer Festival at "Dec 2, 4 07:50:22 am" Message-ID: <200412030022.QAA33904@floodgap.com> > Let us know when you graduate so we can throw you a virtual party :) I'll bring the virtual beer keg. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- In memory of Greg Morris --------------------------------------------------- From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Thu Dec 2 18:15:28 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: RT-11 installation In-Reply-To: <13BD681D-44B6-11D9-A45F-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> References: <41AE908D.6070500@mdrconsult.com> <41AF399D.7020408@compsys.to> <13BD681D-44B6-11D9-A45F-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> Message-ID: <41AFB020.5080707@compsys.to> >David Betz wrote: > Well, I'm seriously considering divesting myself of actual PDP-11 > hardware in favor of just running RT-11 on simh. After all, I'm really > a software guy. It *is* fun playing with the old hardware though and > it's nice to actually handle the Q-Bus cards. I enjoyed hearing the > clacking of the RX02 drives as I ran the DECUS C compiler and > assembler. On the other hand, it would be nice to get back some floor > and closet space. I wonder if anyone would like to trade an 11/23 and > RX02 for one of the smaller pedestal units? Jerome Fine replies: You might also want to try the hobby version of E11 at: http://www.dbit.com/pub/e11/ I run under Windows 98 SE since I REQUIRE the VT100 emulation which supports 132 character text lines under KED. Your hardware must also have ATI based video support - or at least that is what it seems to be for me. I use a 750 MHz Pentium III with an AGP card which is ATI based. It runs RT-11 about 15 times as fast as a DEC PDP-11/93. As for your RX02 drive and the PDP-11/23, well the hardware addicts might like to have one. I am also a software addict myself. Eventually, I expect to produce a Y9K version of RT-11. Hopefully Mentec will eventually allow the hobby users access to V05.07 of RT-11 and the changes will be needed for only the latest version from November 1998. Again, V05.03 of RT-11 (as well as most previous versions) are available at: http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/dists/ Has anyone reading this e-mail downloaded: RT11DV10.ISO.zip (other than those I send the file to originally as a draft version) and what has your experience been with the file? Did you burn a CD? Are there any changes you would recommend? In addition, is anyone interested in V2-0 of the CD which would contain layered products? Which layered products would be important: (a) FORTRAN IV and 77 (b) BASIC (c) C (d) Pascal (e) COBOL (is there a COBOL for RT-11?) (f) Other - please specify In addition, bug fixes are needed for RT-11 as well as enhancements. Can anyone help: (a) Path (Pseudo) Device Handler - PH(X).SYS (b) Y2K bug fixes for older RT-11 such as V05.03 (c) Y9K enhancements for both V05.03 and V05.07 (d) Enhancements for the SL: (Single Line Editor) (e) Other - please specify both bugs and enhancements Any other RT-11 questions. I recently was forced to switch to V7.2 of Netscape and it took about 2 months to figure out how to be able to send posts to newsgroups. I have multiple e-mail accounts and this caused a bit of a problem, but also allowed a convenient solution. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 2 18:20:44 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Acard LVD-to-IDE Bridge In-Reply-To: <20041202213135.GA3794@jdboyd.zill.net> from "Joshua Boyd" at Dec 02, 2004 04:31:35 PM Message-ID: <200412030020.iB30KiZ7008287@onyx.spiritone.com> Joshua D. Boyd wrote: > On Mon, Nov 29, 2004 at 12:40:36PM -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > Has anyone played with the LVD SCSI to IDE bridges that Acard is selling > > now? I'm trying to figure out if they'll sync down to the speed of the SCSI > > bus that they're plugged into. I'm thinking about getting a SCSI-to-IDE > > bridge for my VMS system which currently uses UW-SCSI. If it will work, I'd > > just as soon buy a LVD bridge, as they're cheaper and will be better when I > > finally upgrade my VMS system. > > > > I'm tending to suspect they don't sync down, as they sell U-SCSI, UW-SCSI > > and U160 LVD SCSI models. > > I have a UW-SCSI model, and it works on a U-SCSI bus. That's good to know. > The U-SCSI and UW-SCSI models have different firmware. U-SCSI firmware > has a lot more tweaks to support CD/DVD type devices, while the UW-SCSI > model is meant for harddrives, and they don't seem to care if CD/DVD > type devices don't work properly on that model. > > The U160 device is a newer more expensive device. I guess maybe they > keep the UW around for people to have a cheaper option. Interesting, I can get the LVD model for somewhere around $20-30 cheaper than the UW-SCSI model. OTOH, it's still more than I want to spend to see if it will work or not since I don't have any U160 controllers. I don't care if it's HD only, as I want to use to hook a couple nice big HD's up to my OpenVMS box. What can I say, I'm looking for quieter storage. Zane From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 2 18:27:29 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: NCR Tower PSU again In-Reply-To: <1102010019.1486.24.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Dec 2, 4 05:53:39 pm Message-ID: > > Argh!. You want to find the idiot who built that system and connect his > > private parts to selected points on the mains side of that PSU :-) > > Yahuh. I'm going to tie a label to that cable to remind me to connect it > backwards the next time the machine's in bits - grr! Personally I'd reverse the connector and do the job properly. I don't like keeping bodges... > > > I would therefor try a respecable load on the 5V line and see what happens! > > Turns out my series light bulb was screwing it up when under a slight You didn't tell me the bulb was still in-circuit! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 2 18:31:27 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Impressively priced schematics In-Reply-To: <20041202210102.7198145EB@spies.com> from "Al Kossow" at Dec 2, 4 01:01:02 pm Message-ID: > > > For yucks, I asked for a quote on some schematics from "3prime-solutions.com" > that were listed on their web site (11/84 and HSC50 schems..) > > MP-01426-00......USD$2805 > MP-01955-01......USD$1356 > MP-02011-01......USD$1617 I was once quoted over \pounds 1000 for the printset (schematic) for the 861 power controller (relay box, essentially). I can assure you I laughed for a lot longer than it would have taken me to draw it out from the device! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 2 18:39:05 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Reel-to-reel tape decks (was: Re: ZX81 denigrated!) In-Reply-To: from "Philip Pemberton" at Dec 2, 4 09:46:19 pm Message-ID: > > In message > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > > Do you have access to Poole and Molloy (say in a good public library > > [1])? > > Hahaha... Good public library... ROFLMAO! That's a laugh. Most of the really If al lelse fails, I have a shelf of Poole and Molloy from 1952 to 1981, missing about 2 volumes. I certainly have the 3 that cover this machine (hint!) > > Quite likely. I think origianlly there was a foam pad over each spool > > turntable. The idea was you could leave spools on the machine and put the > > lid on when you'd finished using it and the foam would keep them in place. > > I suppose the best option to deal with that would be to sand off the remains > of whatever adhesive was used with Wet-n-Dry paper, then glue some fresh foam Lighter fluid is often a good solvent for removing adhesive residue... > > If it is polystyrent then dichloromethane will stick it. > > [ checks MSDS ] > > Known carcinogen, suspected human carcinogen, suspected mutagen. No thanks. I Well I get it from a _good_ model shop under the name 'Plastic Weld'. It makes a much stronger bond than normal polystyrene cement. And you only use a couple of drops of it at a time. The trick is to put the parts together and run a bush dipped in the solvent down the crack. Then, if you want a really strong reapir and don't care what one side of the part looks like, put a piece of cotton fabric over the back of the crack, 'paint' the solvent onto that and force it into the softened plastic. That's how I fixed the keyboard bezel on my HP9830, which was shattered by the postal 'service'... To be honest, I feel that a lot of these safety warnings are intended for people who use the material every day, probably in quite large quantities. I don't worry at all about using a few drops every other month or so. > > > sticking the rexine back down in the areas where it's peeled off... > > Not sure what to use for that though. Again, the previous owner (I prefer the > term "wannabe restorer") tried Superglue. Yah, that worked really well. You may find one of the car seat repair kits is of use... Normally you put a patch under the tear and stick the edges down to it (the rexine was not nromally stuck the wood all over, so sticking bits of it down to the wood is no the right thing to do). -tony From vcf at siconic.com Thu Dec 2 10:56:52 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (technoid) In-Reply-To: <0412021706.AA06734@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Dec 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > OK, time for me to speak up. This thread is going in the totally wrong > direction. Why is everyone talking about silly stupid shit like SSNs? > Why is no one organising a posse to level the Bastille prison with the > ground and free our ClassicCmp comrade so he can once again work with us > on Classic Computers? Um, because the guy murdered his father with a shotgun. That's not really the kind of guy I want to hang around. And sorry to say, but the guy was never quite balanced to begin with. He often times became very emotional over the slightest things on the list and would go ballistic. I didn't find it shocking in the least when I heard that he killed his dad with a shotgun. > Jeffrey Worley was and is a great guy, a real hero > in my book. OK, he killed his dad, so what. If Jeffrey killed him, it > was most certainly for just cause and the guy deserved to die. Ummmm............................................................. .................................................................. .................................................................. .............................................................yeah. ? > He was > most probably being a dictator in the house and tormenting Jeffrey (by > interfering with his ClassicCmp work, by telling him to get a Weendoze > job, or somesuch); and he was rightfully overthrown and executed for his > crimes by the oppressed citizenry. Are you on crack? It's a serious question, BTW. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Dec 2 11:07:01 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: OT: good CS textbooks for a DIYer In-Reply-To: <200412030022.QAA33904@floodgap.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Dec 2004, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Let us know when you graduate so we can throw you a virtual party :) > > I'll bring the virtual beer keg. I'll round up some virtual strippers! Anyone up for a virtual lap dance? :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From gordon at gjcp.net Thu Dec 2 19:01:26 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (technoid) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41AFBAE6.6060005@gjcp.net> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >>He was >>most probably being a dictator in the house and tormenting Jeffrey (by >>interfering with his ClassicCmp work, by telling him to get a Weendoze >>job, or somesuch); and he was rightfully overthrown and executed for his >>crimes by the oppressed citizenry. > > > Are you on crack? It's a serious question, BTW. > Neither of you know anything of the circumstances. I doubt this is really an appropriate topic for discussion here. You may wish to try alt.rec.patricide or some such. Gordon. From tomj at wps.com Thu Dec 2 19:02:48 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (technoid) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Dec 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 2 Dec 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > > > OK, time for me to speak up. This thread is going in the totally wrong > > direction. Why is everyone talking about silly stupid shit like SSNs? > > Why is no one organising a posse to level the Bastille prison with the > > ground and free our ClassicCmp comrade so he can once again work with us > > on Classic Computers? Umm, I don't know Michael from a hole in the wall, but even I can detect sarcam from 10,000 feet (3000m for you wrongsiders). (that's a joke too :-) From truthanl at columbus.rr.com Thu Dec 2 19:06:41 2004 From: truthanl at columbus.rr.com (truthanl@columbus.rr.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Is this 10 years old?? Message-ID: <10b86dd10b68ac.10b68ac10b86dd@columbus.rr.com> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11175&item=5735579961#ebayphotohosting AND Hey Ethan, When will you be back stateside? Larry Truthan From aek at spies.com Thu Dec 2 19:48:04 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: 11/44 console pinout Message-ID: <20041203014804.6461547C1@spies.com> 3 - gnd 4 - tx 5 - rx the full bc44-a cable is: 1 - 3 2 - 4 3 - 5 4 - 6 8 - 10 11- 11 12- 12 15- 13 17- 14 20- 15 24- 16 25- 17 ^ +--- 20 pin connector From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Dec 2 20:46:52 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Mercury computer??? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041202214652.007af9a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Anybody know anything about these? They look very modern and very high tech. Most of the units are in grey aluminium boxs about 12" wide, 10" and a couple of feet long. They have quick disconnect fluid couplings on them. I opened one of the boxs and they have some regular looking boards in them and some boards that are encased in thin aluminium boxs. Both the boards and the enclosed boards have two small fluid quick disconnects on them too. One of the encased ones was open and the card inside has two Intel i860XR ICs on them along with a bunch of LSI brand ICs. One of the other boards has soem HUGE ICs on it. They're almost 2 1/2" square and have Mercury Computer Systems marked on them. ALL the ICs in these are heavily gold plated and very expensive looking. I think the part number on the one large box that I opened was Z1117. All the other boxs had different numbers. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Dec 2 21:06:23 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Jeffrey Worley (technoid) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041202220623.007b1910@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:05 PM 12/1/04 -0500, you wrote: >>Yes. The problem with SSNs is that they are publicly accessible in >>far too many places. And you're asked for them in lots of places -- >>like doctor's offices -- where you get very strange looks when you say >>NO. And way too many companies use them for ID numbers. And many >>states put them on driver's licenses. >> >>The problem is that all of this is legal -- it shoudn't be. It's not legal! Federal law clearly states that Social Security Numbers can only be required for items directly related to social security purposes. However that's widely ignored. I was ripped off for several thousand dollars a couple of years ago by someone that got my credit card number and now I'm a lot more careful about SSNs, credit card numbers, bank account info and the like. EVERYTIME that if go into a doctor's office they want my SSN and to make a photocopy of my driver's license. NOPE! I REFUSE to give any of that out. They usually try to argue that they're requird by law to get the information. When I tell them to show me a copy of the law they start stonewalling. The real reason that they want the information is that it makes it a lot easier to track you down if you owe them money. It's incredible to me how many people willing give up their personal information just because someone in an office asks for it! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Dec 2 20:37:34 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Finding shorts in boards In-Reply-To: <1101914477.32333.31.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <16813.55468.988000.726998@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1101907290.32333.10.camel@weka.localdomain> <16813.55468.988000.726998@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041202213734.0079e8f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:21 PM 12/1/04 +0000, you wrote: >On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 09:43 -0500, Paul Koning wrote: >> >>>>> "Jules" == Jules Richardson writes: >> >> Jules> I've got a board here with a short between ground and the +5V >> Jules> rail (actually not quite dead - I'm getting around 10 ohms >> Jules> between the rails) >> >> Jules> Any useful tips for finding the fault? It's a large board, >> Jules> multi-layer, lots of silicon on it unfortunately :-( I'd be willing to bet that the short is in a decoupling cap. Get one of the HP current tracer probes. You should be able to track down the short in minutes with it. Joe From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Thu Dec 2 21:16:09 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Is this 10 years old?? In-Reply-To: <10b86dd10b68ac.10b68ac10b86dd@columbus.rr.com> References: <10b86dd10b68ac.10b68ac10b86dd@columbus.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 20:06:41 -0500, truthanl@columbus.rr.com wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11175&item=5735579961#ebayphotohosting Nice toy... > AND Hey Ethan, When will you be back stateside? Late Jan/early Feb -ethan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Dec 2 21:25:58 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: pinout for smith corona ultrasonic 350 messenger? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041202222558.00798e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I picked up a fancy Smith Corona Ultrasonic 350 Messenger electronic typewriter a few days ago. It has a DB-9F connector on them back. I'm hoping that it's a RS-232 port so that I can use it for a serial console. Does anyone know anything about these or the pinout for it? Joe From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Thu Dec 2 21:48:11 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs In-Reply-To: <19E7D8C4-434D-11D9-B578-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> References: <200412010330.WAA05125@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <19E7D8C4-434D-11D9-B578-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: > Actually, you may have to go through some gyrations to get a unix/linux > console application to compile under DOS. Some stuff might go, perhaps... it has to be somewhat simplistic, of course. Infocom's DOS stuff relied on NANSI.SYS, IIRC, as opposed to the ordinary text-based screen control code interpreter ANSI.SYS. That might help some. Plus, I'm fairly sure that there's a curses library for DOS. I remember porting a number of curses-based games from comp.sources.games and comp.sources.unix, to VMS, c. 1992... surely DOS couldn't be that much harder. > I am trying to re-create the DOS environment of my youth. :^) I've had good experiences with 'dosbox' - I was playing 'XCOM' a few months ago on a Linux system. The DOS version of the game played fine with a couple of quirks, but nothing that kept me from playing it. Cheers, -ethan From jrice54 at vzavenue.net Thu Dec 2 22:03:29 2004 From: jrice54 at vzavenue.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: pinout for smith corona ultrasonic 350 messenger? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041202222558.00798e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041202222558.00798e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <41AFE591.7090307@vzavenue.net> I owned one of those in the mid eighties. It is not a serial port. There was a "Messenger Module" that sold for an additional $450 that had both a serial and parallel port that attached to the DB-9F on the typewriter. I threw out my messenger module last spring :-( as my ex-wife kept my typewriter. James Joe R. wrote: > I picked up a fancy Smith Corona Ultrasonic 350 Messenger electronic >typewriter a few days ago. It has a DB-9F connector on them back. I'm >hoping that it's a RS-232 port so that I can use it for a serial console. >Does anyone know anything about these or the pinout for it? > > Joe > > > > -- www.blackcube.org The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers From ken at seefried.com Thu Dec 2 22:10:18 2004 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Mercury computer??? In-Reply-To: <200412030339.iB33cljl076286@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200412030339.iB33cljl076286@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20041203041018.16149.qmail@mail.seefried.com> > From: "Joe R." > > Anybody know anything about these? The Mercury that I know does high end, custom floating-point semi-super-computers. They are still in business at http://www.mc.com/. Ken From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Dec 2 22:38:36 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: Mercury computer??? In-Reply-To: <20041203041018.16149.qmail@mail.seefried.com> References: <200412030339.iB33cljl076286@huey.classiccmp.org> <200412030339.iB33cljl076286@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041202233836.007a9100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:10 PM 12/2/04 -0500, you wrote: > >> From: "Joe R." >> >> Anybody know anything about these? > >The Mercury that I know does high end, custom floating-point >semi-super-computers. > >They are still in business at http://www.mc.com/. I found their site but can't find anything that looks like these. This picture looks similar to the cards that I found but these cards have all gold ICs (and HUGE ICS!) and no plastic ones. These cards also don't have VME connectors. They have a very high density connectors with 6 pins across and 26 pins in line and THREE such connectors on the card edge (that's 468 contacts!) The pin rows are slightly V shaped so the connectors looks like chevrons. I also can't find anything bout i860XR CPU on that site but if you do a Google search for "Mercury computer i860XR" you'll find plenty of news announcements about them using those CPUs. Joe > >Ken > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Dec 2 22:41:19 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: pinout for smith corona ultrasonic 350 messenger? In-Reply-To: <41AFE591.7090307@vzavenue.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20041202222558.00798e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041202222558.00798e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041202234119.007ac550@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Then it sounds like it will do what I want IF I can find the messanger module. Was the RS-232 two way and use both the printer (output) and keyboard (input) or was it strickly for printing? Can you tell me briefly what the module looked like? Joe At 10:03 PM 12/2/04 -0600, you wrote: >I owned one of those in the mid eighties. It is not a serial port. >There was a "Messenger Module" that sold for an additional $450 that had >both a serial and parallel port that attached to the DB-9F on the >typewriter. I threw out my messenger module last spring :-( as my >ex-wife kept my typewriter. > >James > >Joe R. wrote: > >> I picked up a fancy Smith Corona Ultrasonic 350 Messenger electronic >>typewriter a few days ago. It has a DB-9F connector on them back. I'm >>hoping that it's a RS-232 port so that I can use it for a serial console. >>Does anyone know anything about these or the pinout for it? >> >> Joe >> >> >> >> > > >-- >www.blackcube.org The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers > > > From nschepers at govital.net Thu Dec 2 23:02:09 2004 From: nschepers at govital.net (Nathan Schepers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: VS2000 In-Reply-To: <20041203041018.16149.qmail@mail.seefried.com> References: <200412030339.iB33cljl076286@huey.classiccmp.org> <20041203041018.16149.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Message-ID: <41AFF351.5010703@govital.net> Firstly, I'm brand new to the list and haven't spent much time lurking, so I hope my post is welcome for what it is. :) I have in my posession three VAXStation 2000's and a VT220/LK201 (?) combination. I used to have some big DEC monitors and the monstrous cables that come with them (mouse, keyboard, display all in one cable), but they've disappeared in the course of several years (and moves!). I'm planning on reviving my retrocomputing hobby, and want to start by setting up the VAXen (is VAXen the proper plural?) with the terminal, and getting them on the network. After that I'll probably be on the lookout for some more old DEC machines and parts. Does the list have any suggestions for 1 ) The setup of these machines 2 ) Acquiring machines & peripherals of this vintage ?? -- Nathan Schepers (nschepers@govital.net) From jrice54 at vzavenue.net Thu Dec 2 23:36:13 2004 From: jrice54 at vzavenue.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: pinout for smith corona ultrasonic 350 messenger? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041202234119.007ac550@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041202222558.00798e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041202222558.00798e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041202234119.007ac550@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <41AFFB4D.3010501@vzavenue.net> Over the next couple of months, as I upack my collection after my move, I'll look on the off chance that I didn't chunk the module. If I find it, it's yours for the shipping costs. James Joe R. wrote: > Then it sounds like it will do what I want IF I can find the messanger >module. Was the RS-232 two way and use both the printer (output) and >keyboard (input) or was it strickly for printing? Can you tell me briefly >what the module looked like? > > Joe > > >At 10:03 PM 12/2/04 -0600, you wrote: > > >>I owned one of those in the mid eighties. It is not a serial port. >>There was a "Messenger Module" that sold for an additional $450 that had >>both a serial and parallel port that attached to the DB-9F on the >>typewriter. I threw out my messenger module last spring :-( as my >>ex-wife kept my typewriter. >> >>James >> >>Joe R. wrote: >> >> >> >>> I picked up a fancy Smith Corona Ultrasonic 350 Messenger electronic >>>typewriter a few days ago. It has a DB-9F connector on them back. I'm >>>hoping that it's a RS-232 port so that I can use it for a serial console. >>>Does anyone know anything about these or the pinout for it? >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>www.blackcube.org The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers >> >> >> >> >> > > > > -- www.blackcube.org The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers From jrice54 at vzavenue.net Thu Dec 2 23:31:27 2004 From: jrice54 at vzavenue.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:05 2005 Subject: pinout for smith corona ultrasonic 350 messenger? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041202234119.007ac550@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041202222558.00798e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041202222558.00798e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041202234119.007ac550@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <41AFFA2F.7010406@vzavenue.net> The Messenger Module was a small beige and brown box, cast aluminum with a 18 inch DB9M pigtail and a power cord attached. There was a dip switch bank, Cen36 parallel port and DB25F serial port on the back end. There was a red led on the other end. It was strictly an output device, when the MM was active, the keyboard was shut down. James Joe R. wrote: > Then it sounds like it will do what I want IF I can find the messanger >module. Was the RS-232 two way and use both the printer (output) and >keyboard (input) or was it strickly for printing? Can you tell me briefly >what the module looked like? > > Joe > > >At 10:03 PM 12/2/04 -0600, you wrote: > > >>I owned one of those in the mid eighties. It is not a serial port. >>There was a "Messenger Module" that sold for an additional $450 that had >>both a serial and parallel port that attached to the DB-9F on the >>typewriter. I threw out my messenger module last spring :-( as my >>ex-wife kept my typewriter. >> >>James >> >>Joe R. wrote: >> >> >> >>> I picked up a fancy Smith Corona Ultrasonic 350 Messenger electronic >>>typewriter a few days ago. It has a DB-9F connector on them back. I'm >>>hoping that it's a RS-232 port so that I can use it for a serial console. >>>Does anyone know anything about these or the pinout for it? >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>www.blackcube.org The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers >> >> >> >> >> > > > > -- www.blackcube.org The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Dec 2 23:45:05 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: VS2000 Message-ID: <0412030545.AA07922@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Nathan Schepers wrote: > Firstly, I'm brand new to the list and haven't spent much time lurking,=20 > so I hope my post is welcome for what it is. :) Welcome to the club! > I have in my posession three VAXStation 2000's and a VT220/LK201 (?)=20 > combination. Nice. > I used to have some big DEC monitors and the monstrous cables that come=20 > with them (mouse, keyboard, display all in one cable), but they've=20 > disappeared in the course of several years (and moves!). Damn, that's too bad, they are great monitors. But you can use a serial terminal like your VT220 as well. You can either connect a terminal as the "alternative diagnostic console" to serial port 3 (traditionally called the printer port) with a BCC08 cable (trivial to make yourself), or if you want to be more fancy, you can permanently convert a VAXstation 2000 into a MicroVAX 2000 by changing a jumper inside (and removing the color video option if there is one), in which case it will have a serial console on port 0. Ports 0 and 1 are more difficult to connect to when you don't have the official DEC423 converter box that went with MV2000 systems, but not impossible if you are willing to make the (very hacky and non-standard) cable yourself. If you use the alternative diagnostic console, you can't unplug the console cable or it will halt (breaks cause halt with the alt diag console), but if you get the console on port 0, breaks and unplugged cables are no problem and you can run headless. The connector pinouts and lots of other juicy technical info (enough to write your own OS should you so desire) are in the MV/VS2000 Technical Manual, EK-VTTAA-TM, available on Manx (giant scanned PDF unfortunately). > I'm planning on reviving my retrocomputing hobby, and want to start by=20 > setting up the VAXen (is VAXen the proper plural?) Yup, it is. > Does the list have any suggestions for > 1 ) The setup of these machines See above about the console. Your OS choices are quite diverse. There are VMS and Ultrix, and if you are willing to make some DEC-disapproved hardware modifications (specifically, hook up a SCSI disk, then buy 4 27512 EPROMs at your local Fry's and program them with a modified version of KA410 firmware that has SCSI tape boot code replaced with SCSI disk boot code), you'll be able to run 4.3BSD-Quasijarus as well pretty soon (as soon as I write the machine-independent SCSI code). If you want to run NetBSD, OpenBSD or Linux, someone else would have to tell you about those since I do not and will not touch those OSes. Or write your own OS! This is one of the few machines of that era for which DEC published a real technical manual. I hope this helps, MS From GOOI at oce.nl Fri Dec 3 01:47:02 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: Blinking Light program for PDP-11 Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A011133EF@gd-mail03.oce.nl> The drawback of using the RESET instruction 000005 is noticed when you have RX01 or RX02 drives connected to your system. The INIT signal on the UNIBUS, asserted by the execution of the RESET instruction causes all peripherals attached to reset. For an RL01/RL02 drive you can probably see a lamp flash on the front of those drives, but the RX floppy drives "clunk" with their heads on INIT. >From experience, running this little blinkenlight program on an 11/35 is not fun for long, unless you are deaf because the sound of engaging/disengaging the RX heads is *not* fun. Sorry that you had to wait a little longer until Guy sent you that program. I have it too, but could not find it .... - Henk, PA8PDP. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ashley Carder > Sent: donderdag 2 december 2004 19:33 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Blinking Light program for PDP-11 > > > >Tom Uban wrote: > > > > Ashley, > > Did you get a response on your question? One point > > to keep in mind is that the various processor types > > behave slightly differently. The typical method used > > to do the "Cylon" lamp effect was to use the console > > switch/display register (777570). A pseudo code program > > would be something like this (translation left as an > > exercise for you:-): > > > > Write '1' to console display register. > > Lamp Loop: > > Load spin count into register 2. > > Spin Loop: > > Decrement register 2. > > Branch if non-zero to Spin Loop. > > > > Rotate the console display register value left. > > Branch to Lamp Loop. > > > > This code will continually rotate one lamp from right to > > left across the display. A more complex version would switch > > directions when the lamp hits either end. > > > > Now for the problem. Only some processors (45, 70, perhaps > > others, but I don't think the 35 or 40) support display of > > the console switch/display register. > > > > There may be some other more generic method that works on > > all processors, but I'm not sure what it might be... > > > Hi Tom, > > I got a little "single rotating bit" program, coutesy of Guy > Sotomayor, > who's been a *BIG* help to me. I used this little program to do some > basic testing on my PDP-11/40. It continually rotates one > lamp across > the display. This program was loaded as follows: > > Load address 001000 > Deposit 005000 > Deposit 005200 > Deposit 006100 > Deposit 000005 > Deposit 000775 > Load address 001000 and press Start. > You should see a bit rotate around on the data LEDs. > > If anyone has any more interesting programs that can be toggled in > for "blinking light" effects, I'd be interested in trying them out. > > After toggling in a couple of these types of things with the front > panel last night, I decided to move on to bigger things. I hooked up > an RL02 and was able to successfully boot RT11 v5.3, XXDP 2.5, > and my Wofford Witch RSTS/E v7 system. > > Life is good!!! > > Ashley > > From tomj at wps.com Fri Dec 3 02:05:56 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: Signetics 8x300 instruction set Message-ID: I've been trying to recall, with no success, how subroutine calls were implemented in the 8x300. I used to write code for this weird thing (realtime video processing) and the assembler I used (some horror that ran under TSO) hid it from me so I don't have a clear recollection of the method. It's a really weird CPU, "subroutines" were essentially jumps, as in a lot of machines, but the "return" was through some strange jump table or something. Once upon a time there was a website with CPU instruction cards (man I had a huge pile of these things, pitched loooong ago...) but I can't find it. Nothing on bitsavers I can find. (There's also some really bad info out there on the origins of "Harvard" architecture, attributed to some stupid hardvard vs. princeton microprocessor design thing. Please -- about 40 years earlier: that asshole Aiken. No one liked him anyways.) From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Fri Dec 3 04:11:13 2004 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: HP 64000 References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E501EAEEF7@mail10.congressfinancial.com> Message-ID: <00d001c4d920$6b73f980$7900a8c0@athlon1200> This is at the other end of the country from me (well, almost) but- what is the 'logic analyser' that's referred to? A plugin add-on of some sort? And can the combo be used for general purpose logic analysis? http://www.trademe.co.nz/structure/0124-0126-/auction-19286316.htm Tks for any info - don't know this system at all. Dave Brown, Christchurch, NZ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.4 - Release Date: 30/11/2004 From GOOI at oce.nl Fri Dec 3 04:23:34 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: HP 64000 Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A011133F3@gd-mail03.oce.nl> >From my memories from the eighties. The HP64000 crate can be filled with an ICE for a target CPU and (with the appropriate software) you can do real-time emulation. With the addition of the logic analyser board (and again some system software) you can combine the software emulation with hardware signal tracing. For example: define an event to occur (start trace etc) when the hardware signals have a certain state. Also, on the screen of the HP64000 you can see timing diagrams of al the signals. Neat stuff if you must do hardware debugging of the target. If the hardware is OK, the analyser is seldom needed. As said, from memory, 20 years ago ... - Henk. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dave Brown > Sent: vrijdag 3 december 2004 11:11 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: HP 64000 > > > This is at the other end of the country from me (well, almost) but- > what is the 'logic analyser' that's referred to? A plugin add-on of > some sort? And can the combo be used for general purpose logic > analysis? > > http://www.trademe.co.nz/structure/0124-0126-/auction-19286316.htm > > Tks for any info - don't know this system at all. > Dave Brown, > Christchurch, NZ > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.4 - Release Date: 30/11/2004 > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Dec 3 05:43:01 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Acard LVD-to-IDE Bridge In-Reply-To: <200412030020.iB30KiZ7008287@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200412030020.iB30KiZ7008287@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <1102074181.2986.3.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-12-02 at 16:20 -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I don't care if it's HD only, as I want to use to hook a couple nice big > HD's up to my OpenVMS box. What can I say, I'm looking for quieter storage. Depends what you call big. I've got a few Quantum Atlas V 18Gb SCA- interface SCSI drives and they're easily the quietest hard disks I've ever come across (IDE or SCSI). From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Dec 3 05:49:48 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: NCR Tower PSU again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1102074588.2986.11.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-12-03 at 00:27 +0000, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Argh!. You want to find the idiot who built that system and connect his > > > private parts to selected points on the mains side of that PSU :-) > > > > Yahuh. I'm going to tie a label to that cable to remind me to connect it > > backwards the next time the machine's in bits - grr! > > Personally I'd reverse the connector and do the job properly. I don't > like keeping bodges... I can't decide on that one - if it was a previous owner bodge I'd fix it, but as it's a factory bodge it makes it somewhat quaint :) If I ever come across another identical machine I'll have to see if that's the same - maybe it was an error in assembly instructions rather than some worker having an off day... > > > I would therefor try a respecable load on the 5V line and see what happens! > > > > Turns out my series light bulb was screwing it up when under a slight > > You didn't tell me the bulb was still in-circuit! well you know now :-P I'll dig out the console lead for it later and see if it's all healthy - looking good so far though. cheers Jules From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Dec 3 06:26:53 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: Signetics 8x300 instruction set References: Message-ID: <41B05B8D.7040106@jetnet.ab.ca> Tom Jennings wrote: > > Once upon a time there was a website with CPU instruction cards > (man I had a huge pile of these things, pitched loooong ago...) > but I can't find it. Nothing on bitsavers I can find. Well here is the first google find for the instruction cards. http://archive.comlab.ox.ac.uk/cards/cards.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 3 07:06:13 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: pinout for smith corona ultrasonic 350 messenger? In-Reply-To: <41AFFB4D.3010501@vzavenue.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20041202234119.007ac550@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041202222558.00798e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041202222558.00798e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041202234119.007ac550@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041203080613.007a0470@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Great, Thanks. Do you happen to have a manual for the 350? If could I get a photocopy? Or borrow it long enough for Al to scan it? Joe At 11:36 PM 12/2/04 -0600, you wrote: >Over the next couple of months, as I upack my collection after my move, >I'll look on the off chance that I didn't chunk the module. If I find >it, it's yours for the shipping costs. > >James > >Joe R. wrote: > >> Then it sounds like it will do what I want IF I can find the messanger >>module. Was the RS-232 two way and use both the printer (output) and >>keyboard (input) or was it strickly for printing? Can you tell me briefly >>what the module looked like? >> >> Joe >> >> >>At 10:03 PM 12/2/04 -0600, you wrote: >> >> >>>I owned one of those in the mid eighties. It is not a serial port. >>>There was a "Messenger Module" that sold for an additional $450 that had >>>both a serial and parallel port that attached to the DB-9F on the >>>typewriter. I threw out my messenger module last spring :-( as my >>>ex-wife kept my typewriter. >>> >>>James >>> >>>Joe R. wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> I picked up a fancy Smith Corona Ultrasonic 350 Messenger electronic >>>>typewriter a few days ago. It has a DB-9F connector on them back. I'm >>>>hoping that it's a RS-232 port so that I can use it for a serial console. >>>>Does anyone know anything about these or the pinout for it? >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>-- >>>www.blackcube.org The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > >-- >www.blackcube.org The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 3 07:25:47 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: HP 64000 In-Reply-To: <00d001c4d920$6b73f980$7900a8c0@athlon1200> References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E501EAEEF7@mail10.congressfinancial.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041203082547.00793100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I've never seen one used as a general purpose logic analyzer but they probably did make the proper probes for it. However the 64000 was a complete microcomputer developement system. You could write code on them, save it, edit and change it, compile it, burn it into EPROM and operate the target system using the code from the 64000s memory. There were also emulator pods for just about any common CPU so you could monitor the system activities, set breakpoints, examine and change registers, etc etc etc. As you might expect there were LOTS and LOTs of accessories and peripherals for the 64000. Plus HUGE amounts of software and manuals. I still have a couple of them around but I've been shipping the peripherals, manuals and software to Frank McConnell. A few years ago when I was finding loads of stuff for these, Frank was the only one around that was seriously interested in them. As for using the 64000 as a LA. I wouldn't! It's a dammed monster! It's huge and it's heavy! And I think it's doubtful that you'd get all the SW and peripherals that you'd need anyway and finding the CORRECT parts is going to be very difficult. Yes, I find lots of parts for them but it's always a hodge podge of parts and not enough of any one set that I was able to do anything useful with the 64000. The 64000 would be a great machine for a serious collector. Someone that was willing to get out and find all the original documentation, software and peripherals and build a collection out of it like I have of the Intel MDSs but as a piece of working test equipment I think it would be the pits. Joe PS I should also point out that the 64000 uses those self-melting tape drives similar to the ones on the HP-85, 9825, etc. AND the tapes themselves are very prone to shedding their media and becoming useless. At 11:11 PM 12/3/04 +1300, you wrote: >This is at the other end of the country from me (well, almost) but- >what is the 'logic analyser' that's referred to? A plugin add-on of >some sort? And can the combo be used for general purpose logic >analysis? > >http://www.trademe.co.nz/structure/0124-0126-/auction-19286316.htm > >Tks for any info - don't know this system at all. >Dave Brown, >Christchurch, NZ > > > > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.4 - Release Date: 30/11/2004 > > From jrice54 at vzavenue.net Fri Dec 3 07:30:29 2004 From: jrice54 at vzavenue.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: pinout for smith corona ultrasonic 350 messenger? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041203080613.007a0470@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041202234119.007ac550@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041202222558.00798e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041202222558.00798e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041202234119.007ac550@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041203080613.007a0470@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <41B06A75.4000907@vzavenue.net> I haven't a clue. There are almost 200 boxes of computer stuff to sort. If I find anything it's yours. James Joe R. wrote: > Great, Thanks. Do you happen to have a manual for the 350? If could I >get a photocopy? Or borrow it long enough for Al to scan it? > > Joe > > >At 11:36 PM 12/2/04 -0600, you wrote: > > >>Over the next couple of months, as I upack my collection after my move, >>I'll look on the off chance that I didn't chunk the module. If I find >>it, it's yours for the shipping costs. >> >>James >> >>Joe R. wrote: >> >> >> >>> Then it sounds like it will do what I want IF I can find the messanger >>>module. Was the RS-232 two way and use both the printer (output) and >>>keyboard (input) or was it strickly for printing? Can you tell me briefly >>>what the module looked like? >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> >>>At 10:03 PM 12/2/04 -0600, you wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>I owned one of those in the mid eighties. It is not a serial port. >>>>There was a "Messenger Module" that sold for an additional $450 that had >>>>both a serial and parallel port that attached to the DB-9F on the >>>>typewriter. I threw out my messenger module last spring :-( as my >>>>ex-wife kept my typewriter. >>>> >>>>James >>>> >>>>Joe R. wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>I picked up a fancy Smith Corona Ultrasonic 350 Messenger electronic >>>>>typewriter a few days ago. It has a DB-9F connector on them back. I'm >>>>>hoping that it's a RS-232 port so that I can use it for a serial console. >>>>>Does anyone know anything about these or the pinout for it? >>>>> >>>>> Joe >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>- >> >> >> > > > > -- www.blackcube.org The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers From cmurillo at manizales.autonoma.edu.co Fri Dec 3 08:23:56 2004 From: cmurillo at manizales.autonoma.edu.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: VS2000 References: <0412030545.AA07922@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <41B076FC.3AC42446@manizales.autonoma.edu.co> Michael Sokolov wrote: > See above about the console. Your OS choices are quite diverse. There > are VMS and Ultrix, and if you are willing to make some DEC-disapproved > hardware modifications (specifically, hook up a SCSI disk, then buy 4 > 27512 EPROMs at your local Fry's and program them with a modified version > of KA410 firmware that has SCSI tape boot code replaced with SCSI disk > boot code), you'll be able to run 4.3BSD-Quasijarus as well pretty soon I am running VMS 5.5 on such a modified VS2000. In addition to burning the new PROMS you need to place the pk2k scsi disk driver )called PK2KDRVR.EXE") in SYS$LOADABLE_IMAGES; the prom code specifically looks for it. This driver is restricted to 16KB transfers. Because of this, the creator of the prom patches, Wolfgang Moeller, has offered patch kits for SYSGEN.EXE, STACONFIG.EXE, CONFIGURE.EXE, STASYSGEN.EXE, STANDCONF.EXE and DUMP.EXE in order to make them PK2K-aware, be able to autoconfigure the SCSI and conform to the 16KB limit. The only problem that I have is that the patch kits are available only for 5.5-2, 6.1, 6.2, 7.1 and 7.2 . Anything other than 5.5x is too big for my 6MB VS2000. So before I patch the other binaries I need to upgrade my 5.5 installation to 5.5-2 . The disk with 5.5 was originally installed in a VS4000/60 in which I replaced the disk with a larger one and installed 7.2 on it. This is also the machine that I used to copy the PK2KDRVR.EXE file to the old disk. The VS2000 is much lighter with a 3.5" SCSI disk than with the RD53, and has lots of extra space too :-) . I was afraid that the reduced disk power consumption would shut down the power supply (which requires more load than the system board presents), but it worked fine. Nathan Schepers wrote > I used to have some big DEC monitors and the monstrous cables that come > with them (mouse, keyboard, display all in one cable), but they've > disappeared in the course of several years (and moves!).\ I still have cables, keyboards and hockey-puck mice for my VS2000, but I don't have the 1024x864 mono monitor, so I have a vt320 connected to the printer port with a bcc08-equivalent cable that I made. carlos. -- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez email: carlos_murillo@removethis.andthis.ieee.org Universidad Autonoma de Manizales, Manizales, Colombia ---- "After finding no qualified candidates for the position of principal, the school department is extremely pleased to announce the appointment of David Steele to the post." Philip Streifer, superintendent of schools, Barrington RI. From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Dec 3 09:49:20 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: Signetics 8x300 instruction set In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > I've been trying to recall, with no success, how subroutine > calls were implemented in the 8x300. I used to write code for > this weird thing (realtime video processing) and the assembler > I used (some horror that ran under TSO) hid it from me so I > don't have a clear recollection of the method. > > It's a really weird CPU, "subroutines" were essentially jumps, > as in a lot of machines, but the "return" was through some > strange jump table or something. > > Once upon a time there was a website with CPU instruction cards > (man I had a huge pile of these things, pitched loooong ago...) > but I can't find it. Nothing on bitsavers I can find. > If its the same as the SMS300, My old Osborn introduction to microcomputers says: "The SMS300 has no subroutine or interrupt handling logic" ... "subroutine logic can be created with an XEQ instruction and an appropriate jump table, but this is rather clumsy, in most cases it would be simpler to do without subroutines" Isnt the 8X300 a predecessor to the PIC somehow? > > > (There's also some really bad info out there on the origins > of "Harvard" architecture, attributed to some stupid hardvard > vs. princeton microprocessor design thing. Please -- about 40 > years earlier: that asshole Aiken. No one liked him anyways.) > Peter Wallace From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Dec 3 10:11:18 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Acard LVD-to-IDE Bridge In-Reply-To: <1102074181.2986.3.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <200412030020.iB30KiZ7008287@onyx.spiritone.com> <1102074181.2986.3.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: >On Thu, 2004-12-02 at 16:20 -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> I don't care if it's HD only, as I want to use to hook a couple nice big >> HD's up to my OpenVMS box. What can I say, I'm looking for quieter storage. > >Depends what you call big. I've got a few Quantum Atlas V 18Gb SCA- >interface SCSI drives and they're easily the quietest hard disks I've >ever come across (IDE or SCSI). I'm currently running 6 18GB SCA Drives in a pair of Andataco 3-drive enclosures. The drives are a mixture of Seagate, Hitachi, and Quantum drives. Realistically, they're not as loud as the Sun SparcServer 5/110 and it's HD that are sitting below it. I really need to move that system to quieter HW. For those wondering why I care about the noise level, the only place I have to put the HW is in the corner of our dining room. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From list at saracom.com Fri Dec 3 12:12:42 2004 From: list at saracom.com (list@saracom.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: Any interest in HP 9000/300 series workstations? Message-ID: Hello, The company I work for is considering disposing of about 10 to 15 HP 9000/300 series workstations. I need to actually gather them up between the 3 buildings and count them. Most are model 310. Most have SRM cards and extra memory. I have no working drives available (see previous submissions). We do have a number of keyboards and monitors. Here's the deal, Winner take all, Winner picks up in Lexington KY. No shipping. Good news is that they are free and there is not an immediate need to move them. Let me know if there's any interest and I will do an inventory. Thanks Max From kenziem at sympatico.ca Fri Dec 3 12:16:56 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: IBM PC500 server Message-ID: <200412031316.58373.kenziem@sympatico.ca> I have a pair and I'm finally getting around to playing with them. The last time I looked at them, one was missing RAM and had some fans had been removed the other had some cards moved around and generated a config error. 0016600 Adapter error -this is the SCSI controller in view configuration it shows slot one as having a conflict and lists the built-in features. Moving the card to slot2 made no difference. The 2 SCSI cards in the other machine are not the same. One worked but it seemed to hang when configuring SCSI devices. The other cards does not have the right connectors. -- Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 Machines to trade http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/trade.html Open Source Weekend http://www.osw.ca From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Dec 3 12:59:35 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: Any interest in HP 9000/300 series workstations? Message-ID: <0412031859.AA08425@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Would anyone like to backport the hp300 BSD port from 4.3BSD-Reno and more modern systems to 4.3BSD-Quasijarus? If anyone wants to do it, there's the hardware... No, not me, I have WAY too much on my plate to even consider it. MS From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri Dec 3 03:00:37 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: RT-11 installation In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 02 Dec 2004 19:15:28 EST." <41AFB020.5080707@compsys.to> Message-ID: <200412030900.JAA21070@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Jerome H. Fine said: > >David Betz wrote: > > > Well, I'm seriously considering divesting myself of actual PDP-11 > > hardware in favor of just running RT-11 on simh. After all, I'm really > > a software guy. It *is* fun playing with the old hardware though and > > it's nice to actually handle the Q-Bus cards. I enjoyed hearing the > > clacking of the RX02 drives as I ran the DECUS C compiler and > > assembler. On the other hand, it would be nice to get back some floor > > and closet space. I wonder if anyone would like to trade an 11/23 and > > RX02 for one of the smaller pedestal units? > > Jerome Fine replies: > > You might also want to try the hobby version of E11 at: > http://www.dbit.com/pub/e11/ > > I run under Windows 98 SE since I REQUIRE the VT100 > emulation which supports 132 character text lines > under KED. Your hardware must also have ATI based > video support - or at least that is what it seems > to be for me. I use a 750 MHz Pentium III with > an AGP card which is ATI based. It runs RT-11 > about 15 times as fast as a DEC PDP-11/93. E11 runs just fine under MSDOS, I use an old 486 DX4/100, no display, no keyboard - just a terminal. And you can add the blinkenlites... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Fri Dec 3 13:39:27 2004 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: value of PDP8e References: <200412030339.iB33cljl076286@huey.classiccmp.org> <20041203041018.16149.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Message-ID: <007401c4d96f$cd2a5f80$3a92a8c0@maggie> I acquired a PDP8e (sn M40000521)as part of a trade, which has not yet been completed. Anyone know what value such a unit might have? It's got a blue bezel instead of the usual orange, but it on a 19 slide enclosure. Does this make it an 'industrial' ? I'm not looking to sell it (maybe after the deal is settled) but I'd like to know how to valuate it. I did see some pristine, working units on epay - the top one going for 2300$USD in a silly bid war. But a realistic price may be more like 1500$USD, I'm told. The machine is in 'new' shape and working, has the tty interface card and cabling. core ( dunno how much). Thanks to all who reply, Heinz From jimbauer77 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 1 00:36:23 2004 From: jimbauer77 at hotmail.com (Jimmy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:06 2005 Subject: ibm5360 Message-ID: i my name is jimmy i have ibm 5360 looking for sell if interesse send my email From fabtagon at gmx.de Wed Dec 1 09:17:11 2004 From: fabtagon at gmx.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fabian_H=E4nsel?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: Irix-Install on SGI Indigo: RAM failure, ASQ=0x80 Message-ID: <41ADE077.6080302@gmx.de> Hi everybody, I have an old SGI Indigo (IP12) which refuses my attempts to populate the harddisk with Irix 5.3. The harddisk doesn't boot, so I assume it to be empty. I get sashIP12 and fx.IP12 to load from cd, but using fx with that hd fails: SGI Version 5.3 IP12 Oct 31, 1994 fx: "device-name"= (dksc) fx: ctrl#= (0) fx: drive#= (1) ... opening dksc(0,1,) dks0d1s10: Drive not ready: RAM failure, ASQ=0x80. fx: warning: Failed to open dksc(0,1,10) SGI Version 5.3 IP12 Oct 31, 1994 (and the same again, if I want) Is it trying to open a non-existent partition dks0d1s10? Is it a software-fault? If it's a hardware fault: What's broken: hd or ram? The hd is in the bottom drive bay. After my enter keystroke in line 4 (drive#=1) the led flashes for a short time and at the same time (or maybe some millisecconds later) the error message appears. The error isn't very meaningful to me. Does anybody know about the problem or does have any hints? Thanks in advance, Fabian From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Wed Dec 1 10:35:29 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (gordonjcp@gjcp.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: Finding shorts in boards In-Reply-To: <1101914477.32333.31.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1101907290.32333.10.camel@weka.localdomain> <16813.55468.988000.726998@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1101914477.32333.31.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <58332.195.212.29.75.1101918929.squirrel@195.212.29.75> > On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 09:43 -0500, Paul Koning wrote: > If I can work out which pins on the euroconnectors provide power then > maybe I should hook a known-good 5V supply up to it and see if that's > happy powering things... Measure from the +5v and 0v pins of one of the 74LS chips? You could even apply current there, but be careful. Gordon. From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Thu Dec 2 12:27:43 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (gordonjcp@gjcp.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: Scortched Earth In-Reply-To: <41AF4965.6070103@sbcglobal.net> References: <41ACBBD7.3060800@sbcglobal.net> <41AF4965.6070103@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <16477.195.212.29.83.1102012063.squirrel@195.212.29.83> I might have it on an old Simtel CD (or one of the equivalent other collections). In the meantime: http://www.scorch2000.com - for those with Java-capable browsers. Gordon JC Pearce From jurgen at linsen.be Thu Dec 2 14:09:35 2004 From: jurgen at linsen.be (Jurgen Linsen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: wweng2.sys for DEC server 700 Message-ID: hi noticed that one day you were looking for this file wweng2.sys for the DEC server 700. Did you ever get it? If so, thx a lot to send me a copy !!! best regards Jurgen From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Fri Dec 3 14:07:12 2004 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: HP 64000 References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E501EAEEF7@mail10.congressfinancial.com> <3.0.6.32.20041203082547.00793100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <011701c4d973$ad7292d0$7900a8c0@athlon1200> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 2:25 AM Subject: Re: HP 64000 Thanks Joe (and Henk). Suspicions confirmed then- I didn't think it would be a viable proposition as a general purpopse LA, but was worth asking the question. And don't talk about those damned tape drives (and tapes)!! I have a serious restoration job coming up on both tape drives on a 9845-to say nothing of the 85s (two) that will almost certainly need the same treatment. Cheers DaveB, NZ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.5 - Release Date: 3/12/2004 From tomj at wps.com Fri Dec 3 14:11:53 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: Signetics 8x300 instruction set In-Reply-To: <41B05B8D.7040106@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <41B05B8D.7040106@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > Tom Jennings wrote: > > > > Once upon a time there was a website with CPU instruction cards > > (man I had a huge pile of these things, pitched loooong ago...) > > but I can't find it. Nothing on bitsavers I can find. On Fri, 3 Dec 2004, ben franchuk wrote: > Well here is the first google find for the instruction cards. > http://archive.comlab.ox.ac.uk/cards/cards.html Yes, but no 8x300... clearly, www isn't the only source of data, just the most convenient :-) As always, it's a matter of how important it is to me, whether I'll go scare up a manual. I'll probably just 'keep my eyes open' rather than turn it into A Project -- I have enough of those! But I am getting a bit obsessed with subroutine-call mechanisms so I might make the effort. From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Dec 3 14:16:04 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: value of PDP8e References: <200412030339.iB33cljl076286@huey.classiccmp.org><20041203041018.16149.qmail@mail.seefried.com> <007401c4d96f$cd2a5f80$3a92a8c0@maggie> Message-ID: <001601c4d974$eaff7360$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Yup, I was going to say roughly $1500, if you're looking for ebay standards. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heinz Wolter" To: Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 1:39 PM Subject: value of PDP8e >I acquired a PDP8e (sn M40000521)as part of a trade, which has not yet been > completed. > Anyone know what value such a unit might have? It's got a blue bezel > instead of the usual orange, but it on a 19 slide enclosure. Does this > make > it > an 'industrial' ? I'm not looking to sell it (maybe after the deal is > settled) but > I'd like to know how to valuate it. I did see some pristine, working units > on epay - the top one going for 2300$USD in a silly bid war. But a > realistic > price may be more like 1500$USD, I'm told. The machine is in 'new' shape > and working, has the tty interface card and cabling. core ( dunno how > much). > Thanks to all who reply, > Heinz > > > From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Fri Dec 3 14:14:12 2004 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20041118194505.00bcaec8@pop.hccnet.nl> Message-ID: <009e01c4d974$a80155b0$3a92a8c0@maggie> hook up a terminal to the console port. you should get something from the monitor program. try a boot command "b dua0" or something similar. you need to have a tape loaded with the microcode or you won't get very far. h ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeroen van Hengstum" To: Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 2:00 PM Subject: VAX 11/725 > Hello all, > > Recently I got a VAX 11/725, a small model VAX that was produced around 1983. > I intend to try to boot this machine again after many years. > > - Does anyone have a 11/725? > - Does anyone have 11/725 related documentation? > - How do you check in a few steps with this computer whether it is still functioning properly? > > Thanks, > Jeroen > -- > From tomj at wps.com Fri Dec 3 14:27:01 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: Signetics 8x300 instruction set In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Fri, 3 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > > > I've been trying to recall, with no success, how subroutine > > calls were implemented in the 8x300. I used to write code for On Fri, 3 Dec 2004, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > "The SMS300 has no subroutine or interrupt handling logic" ... "subroutine > logic can be created with an XEQ instruction and an appropriate jump table, > but this is rather clumsy, in most cases it would be simpler to do without > subroutines" Well yes, strictly speaking it doesn't really support subroutines. The mechanism WAS clumsy, and there were a limited number of "returns" available due to the jump table business (basically copies a number from the table to the "PC"). If I could find so much as the instruction set I could re-create it. > Isnt the 8X300 a predecessor to the PIC somehow? Well Microchip's PICs are CISC relative to the SMS/Signetics thing. Seven? instructions, 16 special registers. The code I worked on was a real-time video processor, written by a Real Programmer named Cal Hawke or Hawkes (Avco-Everett Research Lab, my one sole defense job). He was a grad student? maybe 3 yrs older than me. There was a CCD camera mounted on a gymbal looking out the side of a Boeing 707 or something. It flew around looking for objects reentering the atmosphere, incandescing. The 8x300 code was meant to (...) generate X, Y data to feed the error loop of the servo driving the gymbal. The code centroided a blob/bright spot and output coords in some local system. Cal had also encoded a debugger! into the code so that you could talk to it with a serial port as it worked. There was 2K of data and over 1K of code, I think, with complex and dangerous (to the programmer's brain) bank-switching using ports. Code was tested by burning $20 bipolar fuse PROMs. It ran at 4MHz, one instruction per clock. THe code was spectacularly intricate, it's hard to explain just how weird it was with all the interleaved user interface and the video code. No stack, no interrupts, just one long thread of code. I could barely hang on. Cal was leaving (as all grad students do) and I took over maintaining it. Back to the point, it used a lot of "subroutines". Like a PIC, the instructions were wider (16?) than the data buss (8 bits). The instructions I remember are: XMT r "transmit" a constant to reg r (same as movlw), also does "jump" ADD r aux + r --> aux XEC ? execute instruction as "one instruction subroutine" not sure arg Well that's about half of them! From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Dec 3 14:49:45 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: Irix-Install on SGI Indigo: RAM failure, ASQ=0x80 In-Reply-To: <41ADE077.6080302@gmx.de> References: <41ADE077.6080302@gmx.de> Message-ID: <1102106985.3558.5.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 16:17 +0100, Fabian H?nsel wrote: > Hi everybody, > > I have an old SGI Indigo (IP12) which refuses my attempts to populate > the harddisk with Irix 5.3. The harddisk doesn't boot, so I assume it to > be empty. > > I get sashIP12 and fx.IP12 to load from cd, but using fx with that hd fails: > > SGI Version 5.3 IP12 Oct 31, 1994 > fx: "device-name"= (dksc) > fx: ctrl#= (0) > fx: drive#= (1) > ... opening dksc(0,1,) > dks0d1s10: Drive not ready: RAM failure, ASQ=0x80. > fx: warning: Failed to open dksc(0,1,10) > SGI Version 5.3 IP12 Oct 31, 1994 I read that as being the RAM on the hard disk itself (cache memory; any SCSI drive's going to have a few KB) being faulty; i.e. it doesn't mean the RAM in the Indigo. Try a different drive. I can't remember what the Indigo uses now - I believe it's standard 50 pin SCSI for the drives, just the sled that the drive sits in uses a strange connector. Probably someone on the list has a spare drive, or someone on a local newsgroup. I've got a feeling both of our Indigos have 450MB drives, so they don't need anything particularly big. cheers Jules From aek at spies.com Fri Dec 3 14:55:11 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: value of PDP8e Message-ID: <20041203205511.37BCB48D1@spies.com> It's got a blue bezel instead of the usual orange, but it on a 19 slide enclosure. Does this make it an 'industrial' ? -- Strictly speaking, the machine DEC sold as an "Industrial 8" has a red, white, and blue front panel. From aek at spies.com Fri Dec 3 14:56:41 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: HP 64000 Message-ID: <20041203205641.63DC748D5@spies.com> It's a drag that it is in NZ. There are still docs I'm missing in the hp/64000 section of bitsavers, and copies of the software would be good to archive. From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Dec 3 15:11:34 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: HP 64000 In-Reply-To: <20041203205641.63DC748D5@spies.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Dec 2004, Al Kossow wrote: > > It's a drag that it is in NZ. There are still docs I'm missing > in the hp/64000 section of bitsavers, and copies of the software > would be good to archive. > That reminds me, I still have that 1651A If you (or anyone else) wants it. plus manuals for the 1660 Peter Wallace From aek at spies.com Fri Dec 3 15:34:45 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: Signetics 8x300 instruction set Message-ID: <20041203213445.77A5348D2@spies.com> here's a scan of the data sheet http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/signetics/_dataSheets/8X300_1977.pdf From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Dec 3 15:36:49 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: analog computer support information Message-ID: <200412032136.NAA07419@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I'm not sure if I understand your question. You simply change the time constants to be in the range you are looking for. If the original used a 10K and it was 0.1 seconds, using a 100K will make it 1.0 seconds. The capacitance values scale similarly. Do remember to remodel things so that the equation is all integrations and no differentiations. Doing integrators is preferred for these problems. I don't think you change the gains unless you want different responses. You only change the time constants so that you can watch the response. Of course, each step is linear so that you and divide at the input of a stage and the multiply the output if there is a compliance issue. Otherwise, just control the size of your stimulus. Dwight >From: "ahmed abu aqlain" > >I'm Ahmed and I have the following analog computer >Comdyna GP-6 >and I want to implement a high order control transfer function, but I do not know how to rescale of the gain coeffecients fro the high order TFs. > >so, we send you this letter to help us in this point if it possible. > >Thank you very much > AHMED > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? > The all-new My Yahoo! ? What will yours do? > From tomj at wps.com Fri Dec 3 16:15:04 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: Signetics 8x300 instruction set In-Reply-To: <20041203213445.77A5348D2@spies.com> References: <20041203213445.77A5348D2@spies.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Dec 2004, Al Kossow wrote: > here's a scan of the data sheet > > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/signetics/_dataSheets/8X300_1977.pdf THanks!! Damn, I looked under signetics and didn't see _dataSheets. From aek at spies.com Fri Dec 3 16:27:25 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: Signetics 8x300 instruction set Message-ID: <20041203222725.CFCE248D8@spies.com> > I looked under signetics and didn't see _dataSheets. it wasn't there an hour ago :-) From brad at heeltoe.com Fri Dec 3 16:31:02 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: Signetics 8x300 instruction set In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 03 Dec 2004 00:05:56 PST." Message-ID: <200412032231.iB3MV2oT030983@mwave.heeltoe.com> Tom Jennings wrote: > >(There's also some really bad info out there on the origins >of "Harvard" architecture, attributed to some stupid hardvard >vs. princeton microprocessor design thing. Please -- about 40 >years earlier: that asshole Aiken. No one liked him anyways.) (ok, that made my laugh. pretty hard.) Aiken. Howard was it? used to be some big boxes he made in the lobby of one of the builds over at h-a-r-v-a-r-d... I think he was quoted as saying something like, "if your ideas are any good you'll have to jam them down other people's thoats". I have always like that. And have found it to be largely true. Not that I have had that many good ideas. (I know you were joking, I just had to chime in :-) Next I think we should rag on Danny Hillis and that silly connection machine. I remember asking, "so, with 64 cpus you run 64 compiles at one time, right?" and the interviewer said, "no, no ones ever done that". I walked out shaking my head and didn't take the job. -brad From brad at heeltoe.com Fri Dec 3 16:32:31 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: 11/44 console pinout In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 02 Dec 2004 17:48:04 PST." <20041203014804.6461547C1@spies.com> Message-ID: <200412032232.iB3MWVol031117@mwave.heeltoe.com> Al Kossow wrote: > >3 - gnd >4 - tx >5 - rx btw: where did you find that? I searched and searched because I *knew* you would send it to me and I didn't want to waste your time :-) no doubt you have a kd11-z schematic somewhere... -brad From brad at heeltoe.com Fri Dec 3 16:37:39 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 18 Nov 2004 20:00:04 +0100." <5.1.0.14.2.20041118194505.00bcaec8@pop.hccnet.nl> Message-ID: <200412032237.iB3Mbd13031702@mwave.heeltoe.com> Jeroen van Hengstum wrote: >Hello all, > >Recently I got a VAX 11/725, a small model VAX that was produced around 1983. >I intend to try to boot this machine again after many years. > >- Does anyone have a 11/725? >- Does anyone have 11/725 related documentation? >- How do you check in a few steps with this computer whether it is still funct >ioning properly? I sent a rant about this to the list last week I think. I you can't find it in the archive email me and I'll send you a copy. Check the rollers in the tu-58 before you stick a cart into it. I'll bet you a steak dinner they are mush. You'll be better off using a PC as a tu58 server. There have also been some good posts about checking out old unibus equipment on the list recently. I'm a fan of removing all the cards and checking the supplies with a VOM first and then adding them back in one by one. It depends on how recently it was powered up and/or maintained. I'd be curious to hear what peripherals you have and what you plan to boot it from. Do you have a working RL02 / R80 drive combo? -brad From aek at spies.com Fri Dec 3 16:39:43 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: 11/44 console pinout Message-ID: <20041203223943.E294E48D1@spies.com> > btw: where did you find that? -- the 44 print set will be up on bitsavers in an hour or so. From brad at heeltoe.com Fri Dec 3 16:42:24 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: Upcoming Trip... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 30 Nov 2004 22:49:02 EST." Message-ID: <200412032242.iB3MgONG000761@mwave.heeltoe.com> "David V. Corbin" wrote: >On Friday 12/3 I will be heading down I-95 from NY to Va. to pick up a great Wow. Did I just go through some sort of time warp? In my mail box are about 15 messages which are old. They start out on 12/3 but then there are about 15 'repeats' and then 12/3 again. anyone else see this? It appears they came from 'huey.classiccmp.org' today... sorry for the noise. -brad From tomj at wps.com Fri Dec 3 16:45:39 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: 8x300 subroutine call mechanism revealed Message-ID: Thanks Al, for giving me a retro-headache, that chip's architecture is even worse than I remembered :-) It's truly a terrible architecture. The subroutine call mechanism is a trivial software convention, you could do it on any machine that had one unit of storage to dedicate. Only 32 one-deep calls are allowed; 32 is an 8x300 limitation. The trick is that CALL and RETURN are macros. Here's how it's done, example trivial code fragment: 0100: CALL subr / This jump subroutine... 0102: ... / ...returns here, 0103: ... 0200: CALL subr / and this call... 0202: ... / ...returns here. subr: code here ... RETURN One 8x300 register is set aside for the return linkage mechanism, let's call this RETN. The macroassembler does the work. A local (to the assembler) variable, let's call it R, increments with every CALL macro expansion, arbitrarily from the top of the souce file to the bottom. At the same time, a jump table, call it JUMPS, is constructed where the Rth entry is [pc + 2], that is, the address to return to after the call. (2 instructions are needed to do the CALL.) CALL expands to: xmit R, RETN / store R in register RETN jump subr RETURN expands simply to: XEC RETN, JUMPS / execute JUMPS[RETN] I'm certain I have the syntax wrong, no matter. The jump table called JUMPS looks like: JUMPS: jump 0102 / first call + 2 jump 0202 / second call + 2 ... / etc It would be 'interesting' to cobble up a mechanism capable of recursion, but likely it would be larger than many subroutines. It could certainly be done though, and worse things have been shipped. From tomj at wps.com Fri Dec 3 16:46:24 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: Signetics 8x300 instruction set In-Reply-To: <20041203222725.CFCE248D8@spies.com> References: <20041203222725.CFCE248D8@spies.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Dec 2004, Al Kossow wrote: > > I looked under signetics and didn't see _dataSheets. > > it wasn't there an hour ago :-) After some deep analysis here, this explanation seems to fit the results obtained. From tomj at wps.com Fri Dec 3 16:54:06 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: Signetics 8x300 instruction set In-Reply-To: <200412032231.iB3MV2oT030983@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200412032231.iB3MV2oT030983@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Dec 2004, Brad Parker wrote: > >(There's also some really bad info out there on the origins > >of "Harvard" architecture, attributed to some stupid hardvard > >vs. princeton microprocessor design thing. Please -- about 40 > >years earlier: that asshole Aiken. No one liked him anyways.) > > (ok, that made my laugh. pretty hard.) > Aiken. Howard was it? yup. Now I never met him, of course, but he's pretty roundly reviled. I'm reading the Babbage Inst's reprint and even there, it states that though Aiken was a lecturer, that 'he largely seemed unaware of the importance of what was being discussed [fully electronic stored-program...] and delved in deeply to the workings of his relay calculators' (paraphrase from memory) Apparently working in his shop was like slavery. I've not read one account that actually liked the guy. Overbearing empire-builder and Spender of Govt Money. Nice calculators though. (The arch ref is that the relay calc programs were stored on very wide punched tape, external to data storage. They were truly significant machines of great power and complexity (logical error-checking, remote consoles, skip-to-next-queued-up-program-on-error, all sorts of nicities. He simply was an unpleasant person.) > Next I think we should rag on Danny Hillis and that silly connection > machine. I remember asking, "so, with 64 cpus you run 64 compiles at > one time, right?" and the interviewer said, "no, no ones ever done > that". I walked out shaking my head and didn't take the job. TO be honest I don't know much about all the parallel processing stuff; so they were somewhat silly? From tomj at wps.com Fri Dec 3 18:08:08 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: Signetics 8x300 instruction set In-Reply-To: References: <200412032231.iB3MV2oT030983@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > yup. Now I never met him, of course, but he's pretty roundly > reviled. I'm reading the Babbage Inst's reprint and even there, ^ | (of the Moore School Lectures, 1947) From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Dec 3 18:12:04 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: NCR Tower PSU again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1102119124.3618.16.camel@weka.localdomain> Well, it's sort-of alive... I think there's a bus fault somewhere though - system tries to come up, system board and memory pass tests, then it fails first on something called SSKE, before proceeding to fail both the SCSI controller and the the serial controller boards. Funny how it knows that the SCSI and serial boards are there, yet it thinks they're faulty. I can't think what SSKE stands for either, but as it's the first error logged it's probably the root of the problems. So, I can talk to it on the console and get the diag menus up, but not much else at the moment! :) I've mentioned the specific fault codes on comp.sys.ncr so hopefully there are still a few old timers there who happen to have manuals and can look up the details... cheers Jules From vcf at siconic.com Fri Dec 3 10:47:24 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: Last chance for container to Germany Message-ID: If anyone has anything they want shipped from the Silicon Valley area to Munich then please pipe up soon. Last chance... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Dec 3 18:45:36 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: Last chance for container to Germany In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Dec 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > If anyone has anything they want shipped from the Silicon Valley area to > Munich then please pipe up soon. Last chance... > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > I think someone in Germany wanted those 60's ELECTRONICS magazines I still have, Maybe they could speak up... Peter Wallace From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 3 18:35:05 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: NCR Tower PSU again In-Reply-To: <1102074588.2986.11.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Dec 3, 4 11:49:48 am Message-ID: > > Personally I'd reverse the connector and do the job properly. I don't > > like keeping bodges... > > I can't decide on that one - if it was a previous owner bodge I'd fix > it, but as it's a factory bodge it makes it somewhat quaint :) If I I have to say that I try to correct errors, even if they're production errors. I like my machines to work properly, and to be easy to repair, and so on. My Acorn Cambridge came with a mis-wired power harness which caused an otherwise unused 12V output on the PSU to be shorted to ground. Since that output came from a higher-voltage output via a linear regulator on the PSU board it didn't shut the thing down, but it sure ran hot! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 3 18:51:54 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: Anyone got an HP Paintjet printer? Message-ID: This is going to seem like an odd question, but here goes... I've borrowed a Paintjet (colour inkjet) printer from HPCC (as you probably all know I am somewhat invovled with that club) with the idea of taking it apart, figuring out how it works, etc. Yes, the club do know I do that sort of thing :-) So far, so good. I've figured it out, made notes, and put it back together. Problem is, I can't get it right... Here's the problem. There's what I'd call a 'pressure bail' that holds the paper against the platten. It carries a transparent plastic window. And that window seems very loose. So loose, in fact that it rubs on the ink cartridges when you move the carriage. And when the carriage moves to the far right (parking position), the window drops so far that it jams the carriage, which then can't move back to the left. The problem is compounded by the fact that I don't know that it was correct before I took it apart. I do know I've got no bits left over. I also didn't dismantle that part of the printer (I did remove the logic board and mechanism from the case, I did dismantle the mechanism far enough to remove the carriage and motors). I can't see any obvious places where something (like a spring) should go, but equally the finish on the tabs of the window (I did remove that _after_ I discovered the problem in an attempt to find it) doesn't look as good as I'd expect from old HP. Maybe some tabs have broken off. So my questions are (if you have a Paintjet, original version) Look at the windw in front of the platten on top of the machine. Does it seem to sag at the front edge, or is it forced up against the inside of the case. If you can remove the cover (I can tell you how to do this, it's easy and doesn't need tools), I'd like to know just what supports the window. Are there any springs or spring wires/leaves on the front of the pressure bail? Are there any 'extensions' to the tabs on the window at the front of the bail? If I know thrre's something missing/broken I can have a go at making/kludging it. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 3 18:56:42 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: <200412032237.iB3Mbd13031702@mwave.heeltoe.com> from "Brad Parker" at Dec 3, 4 05:37:39 pm Message-ID: > Check the rollers in the tu-58 before you stick a cart into it. I'll > bet you a steak dinner they are mush. You'll be better off using a PC > as a tu58 server. Personally I'd rather rebuild the roller (I've done HP [1] ones, I can't believe the DEC ones are any worse) than adulterate a perfectly good DEC PDP/VAX with a PC :-) [1] Including the 9100 and 9810, for which I had to make special tools... > There have also been some good posts about checking out old unibus > equipment on the list recently. I'm a fan of removing all the cards and > checking the supplies with a VOM first and then adding them back in one As am I!. In the case of the 11/730, I think you want to remove the TU58 chassis as well, you don't want to cook the chips on its controller board if the PSU is malfunctioning... > by one. It depends on how recently it was powered up and/or maintained. > I'd be curious to hear what peripherals you have and what you plan to > boot it from. Do you have a working RL02 / R80 drive combo? I really must dig out my 11/730 and get it going. I've got the R80 drive and the TSU05 magtape system (this was a standard cofiguration in half-height rack). Of course I've also got an RL02 on one of my 11s that I could hook up. What are my choices for an OS, given that I have no official license, live in the UK, and am not a member of DECUS (the UK chapter charges an extortionate membership fee). -tony From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Fri Dec 3 19:05:14 2004 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 References: <200412032237.iB3Mbd13031702@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <00e201c4d99d$4ff55eb0$3a92a8c0@maggie> "RL02 / R80 drive combo" That was what shipped with the 730.. the same beast in 19" rack clothing. the 725 has a dual inter/external RC25- an oddball drive sharing the same spindle for the internal as the external.. Obviously not as nice as a stock RL02 since if it breaks.. the 725 is toast.. unless you have external disks.. h > I'd be curious to hear what peripherals you have and what you plan to > boot it from. Do you have a working RL02 / R80 drive combo? > > -brad > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 3 19:10:30 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: HP 64000 In-Reply-To: <20041203205641.63DC748D5@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041203201030.007a2e30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Al, Did you make copies of the docs that Frank has? I think I still have a box of docs for the 64000. I should try to locate them and see what's there. Joe At 12:56 PM 12/3/04 -0800, Al wrote: > >It's a drag that it is in NZ. There are still docs I'm missing >in the hp/64000 section of bitsavers, and copies of the software >would be good to archive. > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 3 19:18:33 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: wanted ; docs for Omnibyte Corp OB68K1A multibus SBC In-Reply-To: <7310020377.20041115144952@Greencroft.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041203201833.007b7100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I think I have a couple of these cards but no docs. Have you tried NorthWest Technical, Inbus or any of the other third party Multibus support companies? Any idea what the card were used in? At 02:49 PM 11/15/04 +0000, you wrote: >Anyone got any info on the above board? motorola 68000 CPU, DRAM, ROM >& some IO (2*6821 PIAs, 2*6850 SIOs, 1* 6840), and a bunch of >switches, all on a MultiBUS I card. Also has "master/slave D16 M24 I16 The D16 etc etc bit describes the cards level of compliance to various Multibus standards. They use similar nomenclature to describe HP-IB compliance. Joe >VOL 1982" legended. >Nothing helpfull showing up on a Google so far. >(received it amongst a pile of DEC manuals & TK50s rescued a month or >so ago) > >ta. >greg > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 3 19:22:08 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: BBN and SMS pictures. In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20041124152403.011728e0@155.212.1.107> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041203202208.007a0100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:24 PM 11/24/04 -0500, Michael Thompson wrote: >At 02:02 PM 11/19/2004 -0500, Joe R. wrote: >> Here are some pictures of SOME of the stuff that I got last weekend. >Besides a huge box of manuals that I've sent to Al, I found five BBN >computers and I'm attempting to rescue enough of one to make a workable >system for Tom Uban. Plus all the cards out of the other ones for him for >spares. The BBN chassis is just too big to deal with but I got ALL the >cables, the complete PSU (on the back panel!), the multibus card cage (and >all the MB cards) and the switch card that lets all the CPUs talk to all >the other CPUs. The BBN CPUs are odd in that they don't plug into a socket >so the card cage isn't absolutely necessary. All the power and signals go >through connectors on the front of the card. Warning: this is a SCRAP >place and some of it isn't pretty! >> >> > >I designed the Multibus backplane in that BBN machine about 20 years ago. Neato! Do you remember what those BBNs were used for or were the Multibus chassis used in all BBNs? IIRC the MB backplane in these was made by Mupac. Joe From geoffreythomas at onetel.com Fri Dec 3 19:18:04 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.com (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: Reel-to-reel tape decks (was: Re: ZX81 denigrated!) References: Message-ID: <018501c4d9a0$f4c89f80$0200a8c0@geoff> The cr1602 , and variations, is shown to be in the 1961/62, 1962/63 &1963/64 volumes of R&tv servicing. Unfortunately , I don't have those but I know someone who might. Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Pemberton" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 9:41 AM Subject: Re: Reel-to-reel tape decks (was: Re: ZX81 denigrated!) > In message > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > > OK, I think I've traced it. A 3rd party user guioe ('The Philips Tape > > Recorder Book', 1st edition) states that the ST454 is equivalent to the > > Philips EL3541 and the Cossor CR1602. > > Yep - I've just had a look at some photos of the EL3451 - it looks exactly > the same as the ST454, aside from the case finish (mine is red and white, the > Philips unit I had a look at was grey). > > > 1) The superimpose swtich (turns off the erase head) became a parallel > > play button (plaus tracks 1 and 3 together). > > Mine must be a fairly old unit then; it's got a superimpose switch, not a > parallel-play button. > > > 2) The 2 pin pickup/radio input became a DIN socket (radio input and line > > level ouptu) and, believe-it-or-not an IEC 5 pin pickup input. > > > 3) THere ware circit changes, some quite significant. > > > > In particular : > > > > > > It's 4 track, does it have a Stereo socket [3]? > > > > It should do. Left side of the machine. Early models didn't provide the > > 16V for the pre-amp here, though. > > Found it. Left side of the plastic top cover, next to the volume control. > Listed in the manual as a "Stereo Socket"; appears to be a 3-pin DIN with a > locator pin in the centre (?!) > > > I think it's rexine-covered wood, at least for the Philips EL3541. But I > > can't be sure, and this is something that may differ between > > Philips/Cossor/Stella versions. > > >From the "Operating Instructions" booklet: > Cabinet: Wooden cabinet covered in a washable plastic cloth with > polystyrene lid. > > > Controls look to be conventional Philips, > > apart from the strainght-through amplifier switch near the connector > > panel. > > Yep. It's got one of those. > > I'm beginning to think the brown staining in the top plastic may be down to > some foam (or similar) splitting away from the polystyrene lid - it does have > a "foamy" look to it. Next job after that is fixing the crack in the lid and > sticking the rexine back down in the areas where it's peeled off... > > Later. > -- > Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, > philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, > http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI > ... I was going to procrastinate, but I put it off.... > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.4 - Release Date: 30/11/04 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.4 - Release Date: 30/11/04 From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Dec 3 19:57:22 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: Last chance for container to Germany In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Dec 2004, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > > I think someone in Germany wanted those 60's ELECTRONICS magazines I still > have, Maybe they could speak up... > Nope, that would be me - last time we spoke I was going to try and get them at VCF, which has come and gone... I'll contact you off list and arrange Something... Cheers John From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Dec 3 20:00:17 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: wanted ; docs for Omnibyte Corp OB68K1A multibus SBC In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041203201833.007b7100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041203201833.007b7100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Dec 2004, Joe R. wrote: > I think I have a couple of these cards but no docs. Have you tried > NorthWest Technical, Inbus or any of the other third party Multibus support > companies? Any idea what the card were used in? An entire Omnibyte, with docs (Irix too) went to Hans im Meunchen, IIRC... I had aquired it from a recording studio re-build where it had been used to do early audio console automation. Hans?? Did that big Omnibyte go to you??? Cheers John From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Dec 3 20:03:40 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 Message-ID: <0412040203.AA09280@ivan.Harhan.ORG> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > What are my choices for an OS, given that I have no official license, > live in the UK, and am not a member of DECUS (the UK chapter charges an > extortionate membership fee). 4.3BSD-Quasijarus of course! It's completely and totally free, and unlike some competing OSes, it's also completely and totally Classic. You can download the distribution tape images from ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG and write the actual tape yourself (if you have some other machine capable of writing tapes, given all the stuff you have I'm sure you do :-), or if you want to give some support to the project that develops and maintains the said OS, you can order an official distribution tape from Harhan (probably still much cheaper than any membership fee or license). MS From vcf at siconic.com Fri Dec 3 20:39:56 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: Upcoming Trip... In-Reply-To: <200412032242.iB3MgONG000761@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Dec 2004, Brad Parker wrote: > > "David V. Corbin" wrote: > >On Friday 12/3 I will be heading down I-95 from NY to Va. to pick up a great > > Wow. Did I just go through some sort of time warp? > > In my mail box are about 15 messages which are old. They start out on > 12/3 but then there are about 15 'repeats' and then 12/3 again. > > anyone else see this? > > It appears they came from 'huey.classiccmp.org' today... > > sorry for the noise. I have this problem all the time. I'm still trying to figure it out. I'm hoping my server upgrade will eliminate the problem (whenever I can get around to it). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aek at spies.com Fri Dec 3 20:48:10 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: docs for Omnibyte Corp OB68K1A Message-ID: <20041204024810.148AA48ED@spies.com> got it scanned, will put it up tonight on bitsavers. I did scan the material from Frank on the 64000 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 3 22:11:19 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: Reel-to-reel tape decks (was: Re: ZX81 denigrated!) In-Reply-To: <018501c4d9a0$f4c89f80$0200a8c0@geoff> from "Geoffrey Thomas" at Dec 4, 4 01:18:04 am Message-ID: > > The cr1602 , and variations, is shown to be in the 1961/62, 1962/63 &1963/64 > volumes of R&tv servicing. Perhaps I should mention that 'Radio and Television Servicing' is generally called 'Poole and Molloy' who where the (main?) editors of said series of books (the ttile did change a couple of times, the very first volume is the 'Radio Engineeer's Servicing Manual', for example)). > Unfortunately , I don't have those but I know someone who might. I have them. -tony From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Dec 3 22:18:47 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: BBN and SMS pictures. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041203202208.007a0100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.5.32.20041124152403.011728e0@155.212.1.107> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20041203221724.0648f7f0@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 08:22 PM 12/3/2004 -0500, you wrote: >At 03:24 PM 11/24/04 -0500, Michael Thompson wrote: > >At 02:02 PM 11/19/2004 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > >> Here are some pictures of SOME of the stuff that I got last weekend. > >Besides a huge box of manuals that I've sent to Al, I found five BBN > >computers and I'm attempting to rescue enough of one to make a workable > >system for Tom Uban. Plus all the cards out of the other ones for him for > >spares. The BBN chassis is just too big to deal with but I got ALL the > >cables, the complete PSU (on the back panel!), the multibus card cage (and > >all the MB cards) and the switch card that lets all the CPUs talk to all > >the other CPUs. The BBN CPUs are odd in that they don't plug into a socket > >so the card cage isn't absolutely necessary. All the power and signals go > >through connectors on the front of the card. Warning: this is a SCRAP > >place and some of it isn't pretty! > >> > >> > > > >I designed the Multibus backplane in that BBN machine about 20 years ago. > > Neato! Do you remember what those BBNs were used for or were the >Multibus chassis used in all BBNs? IIRC the MB backplane in these was made >by Mupac. Mupac would make sense. I am pretty sure that was the brand which we used at BBN when we built the Butterfly machines. I used to have a large VME chassis made by Mupac that I picked up from BBN while I was there. We used the VME interface on the GP1000 followup, the TC2000. --tom From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Dec 3 22:39:15 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: PDP-11 gear available Message-ID: <003b01c4d9bb$35fa89e0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I received the following email. If anyone is interested please contact me off-list. I want the chrome disk racks, so the rest is available. Jay West -------------- I have the following DEC equipment available at no charge: Computer RL-02, 2 drives (bottom one out of commission) 6 keyboards 3 LA50 printers 7 (maybe more) RL-02K disks 1 VT 100 Terminal 1 VT 102 Terminal Cables - many Several boards Instruction and related books 2 chrome disk racks Located in White Plains, NY --------------- From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Dec 3 22:49:36 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: looking for hp 13210A set Message-ID: <001401c4d9bc$a841cc60$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> TSIA, willing to trade for a working 13210A (two card) controller for the 7900A drive. Contact me off list if you can help! Jay West From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Dec 3 22:56:57 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: value of PDP8e In-Reply-To: <20041203205511.37BCB48D1@spies.com> Message-ID: > Strictly speaking, the machine DEC sold as an "Industrial 8" has a > red, white, and blue front panel. "Strictly"? C'mon, you know that DEC was a bit loose with colors. Anyway, it seems that generally, 12 bit machines in blue were made for the medical field, and called Clinicals (blue PDP-12s are Clinical-12s). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aek at spies.com Fri Dec 3 23:25:59 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:08 2005 Subject: bitsavers is down Message-ID: <20041204052559.2FE264809@spies.com> It crashed about 20:00 PST. I don't have access to the cage, so it may be down 'til tomorrow afternoon. From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Dec 3 23:29:15 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: PDP-11 gear available References: <003b01c4d9bb$35fa89e0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <004101c4d9c2$31b86f30$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> PDP-11 gear already claimed. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 10:39 PM Subject: PDP-11 gear available >I received the following email. If anyone is interested please contact me >off-list. I want the chrome disk racks, so the rest is available. > > Jay West > -------------- > I have the following DEC equipment available at no charge: > > Computer RL-02, 2 drives (bottom one out of commission) > 6 keyboards > 3 LA50 printers > 7 (maybe more) RL-02K disks > 1 VT 100 Terminal > 1 VT 102 Terminal > Cables - many > Several boards > Instruction and related books > 2 chrome disk racks > > Located in White Plains, NY > --------------- > > > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Dec 4 00:08:54 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: bitsavers is down In-Reply-To: <20041204052559.2FE264809@spies.com> References: <20041204052559.2FE264809@spies.com> Message-ID: >It crashed about 20:00 PST. I don't have access to the cage, >so it may be down 'til tomorrow afternoon. Ouch! Bad week or so, first Trailing-edge, and now bitsavers. Who is next? Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From aek at spies.com Sat Dec 4 00:17:20 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: bitsavers is down Message-ID: <20041204061720.5E2DF48B2@spies.com> > Who is next? http://www.mcjones.org/dustydecks/ From pat at computer-refuge.org Sat Dec 4 00:33:50 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: bitsavers is down In-Reply-To: References: <20041204052559.2FE264809@spies.com> Message-ID: <200412040133.50256.pat@computer-refuge.org> Zane H. Healy declared on Saturday 04 December 2004 01:08 am: > >It crashed about 20:00 PST. I don't have access to the cage, > >so it may be down 'til tomorrow afternoon. > > Ouch! Bad week or so, first Trailing-edge, and now bitsavers. Who is > next? I'll take this time to remind our audience that bitsavers is mirrored in whole on classiccmp.org, and (for the moment at least) the pdf section on computer-refuge.org. Both Jay and I have much more bandwith available to our sites than Al does to his. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat Dec 4 00:35:44 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: bitsavers is down References: <20041204052559.2FE264809@spies.com> Message-ID: <005b01c4d9cb$7b5a7210$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> of course, during the downtime you can use www.classiccmp.org/bitsavers Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" To: Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 11:25 PM Subject: bitsavers is down > > It crashed about 20:00 PST. I don't have access to the cage, > so it may be down 'til tomorrow afternoon. > > > From vp at cs.drexel.edu Sat Dec 4 02:39:12 2004 From: vp at cs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: hp 9121 (cctalk Vol 16, Issue 6) Message-ID: <200412040839.iB48dCWx018050@queen.cs.drexel.edu> Natalia wrote: > I have a Dual Disk Drive HP 9121 that is cabled to an HP 9816 whith > operative system HP Basic 2.0. When I copy or save file or program put > the message "error 88: read data error". Can you help me? What is the > Problem? You can get the manual for the 9121 at http://www.series80.org/Manuals/index.html#HP9121 But I suspect that the problem is a dirty R/W head on the drive. You do not mention whether you have the 2 drive model (9121D) and whether you have the same error message when you try accessing the second drive. If you only have the prob with the first drive, then its almost certainly a dirty R/W head inside the drive. Have you tried cleaning the heads? The easiest way is to try to find a cleaning diskette (usu available for PCs). Such diskettes usually have an extra hole across from the WRITE-PROTECT tab. You have to cover this (extra) hole with some tape (black electrician's tape will do) and then the cleaning diskette will be usable with the 9121. Best Regards **vp From paul at frixxon.co.uk Sat Dec 4 03:20:12 2004 From: paul at frixxon.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: 11/44 console pinout In-Reply-To: <200412032232.iB3MWVol031117@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200412032232.iB3MWVol031117@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <41B1814C.2040707@frixxon.co.uk> Brad Parker wrote: > Al Kossow wrote: > >>3 - gnd >>4 - tx >>5 - rx > > > btw: where did you find that? I searched and searched because I *knew* > you would send it to me and I didn't want to waste your time :-) > > no doubt you have a kd11-z schematic somewhere... Henk's scans of the KD11-Z schematics have been online for years. You didn't need to search and search; you only had to type "M7090" into Manx: http://vt100.net/manx/search?on=0&cp=1&q=m7090 From vp at cs.drexel.edu Sat Dec 4 03:44:03 2004 From: vp at cs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: Upcoming Trip... Message-ID: <200412040944.iB49i30b018310@queen.cs.drexel.edu> Brad Parker wrote: > Wow. Did I just go through some sort of time warp? > > In my mail box are about 15 messages which are old. They start out on > 12/3 but then there are about 15 'repeats' and then 12/3 again. I had this happen to me (as the sender) when I restored a system from backup. The machine had a single disk drive which failed, so when the new disk drive arrived, I restored everything from a two month old backup. It was a piece of cake and the system was back to normal. Or so I thought! ... After a couple of days I started receiving messages like Brad's asking whether I had gone senile and started emailing people about deadlines that had already past etc. What happened was that when the backup was made, there were a bunch of emails in the mail queue and they were backed up along with everything else. Two months later when the backup was restored, sendmail found them in the mail queue and sent them along (again). **vp From dave at naffnet.org.uk Sat Dec 4 03:49:44 2004 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41B18838.10401@naffnet.org.uk> Tony Duell wrote: >What are my choices for an OS, given that I have no official license, >live in the UK, and am not a member of DECUS (the UK chapter charges an >extortionate membership fee). > >-tony > > Faced with the same problem of silly membership fees, I joined Encompass online in the US, at the associate level, which is free, and just entered my UK details. Memebership was approved, and licenses therefore available via Montagar. http://www.encomapssus.org is the place to start. Cheers, Dave. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Dec 4 04:07:43 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: Irix-Install on SGI Indigo: RAM failure, ASQ=0x80 In-Reply-To: <41ADE077.6080302@gmx.de> References: <41ADE077.6080302@gmx.de> Message-ID: <20041204110743.414dbc87.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 16:17:11 +0100 Fabian H?nsel wrote: > The error isn't very meaningful to me. Does anybody know about the > problem or does have any hints? Maybe ask at the sgi-rescue mailing list at http://www.sgihelp.org/ -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From gordon at gjcp.net Sat Dec 4 05:23:33 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: Upcoming Trip... In-Reply-To: <200412032242.iB3MgONG000761@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200412032242.iB3MgONG000761@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <41B19E35.9000500@gjcp.net> Brad Parker wrote: > "David V. Corbin" wrote: > >>On Friday 12/3 I will be heading down I-95 from NY to Va. to pick up a great > > > Wow. Did I just go through some sort of time warp? > > In my mail box are about 15 messages which are old. They start out on > 12/3 but then there are about 15 'repeats' and then 12/3 again. > > anyone else see this? Yup. Gordon. From wmaddox at pacbell.net Sat Dec 4 06:14:34 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: Removing adhesives, was Re: Reel-to-reel tape decks (was: Re: ZX81 denigrated!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41B1AA2A.8090703@pacbell.net> Tony Duell wrote: > Lighter fluid is often a good solvent for removing adhesive residue... By far the best stuff I've ever used is "Goo-Gone", a citrus-solvent/ petroleum-solvent blend. Perhaps it (or an equivalent) is sold in the UK. I've also used Goo-Gone for cleaning ink from plastic surfaces. It is a bit harsher than isopropanol, but take off some marks that isopropanol will not, and doesn't visibly affect opaque plastics (or most transparent ones for that matter). --Bill From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Dec 4 06:04:19 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: VAX 11/725" (Dec 4, 0:56) References: Message-ID: <10412041204.ZM3022@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 4 2004, 0:56, Tony Duell wrote: > I really must dig out my 11/730 and get it going. I've got the R80 drive > and the TSU05 magtape system (this was a standard cofiguration in > half-height rack). Of course I've also got an RL02 on one of my 11s that > I could hook up. > > What are my choices for an OS, given that I have no official license, > live in the UK, and am not a member of DECUS (the UK chapter charges an > extortionate membership fee). Run BSD, or join the US chapter of Encompass (which, at the lowest level, is free). The latter is what I did when my UK subscription expired, because I have more than one microVAX and I wanted at least one running VMS. Which I will get round to doing something with "real soon now" ;-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Dec 4 06:29:15 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: M9312 boot roms (again) In-Reply-To: Wai-Sun Chia "M9312 boot roms (again)" (Nov 27, 23:01) References: <20041128070115.67557.qmail@web53201.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10412041229.ZM3046@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 27 2004, 23:01, Wai-Sun Chia wrote: > Hello, > Sorry to beat this old horse again, but did anybody set up a > repository for M9312 boot images since the last discussion? > (I actually went to look for them in www.classiccmp.org/M9312, and > Pete's DECROM repository doesn't seem to have the 23-xxxA9 M9312 > roms) > > I need some of them, specifically the DU, DX, and DY. Henk may have (http://www.pdp-11.nl/index.html), but maybe not online. I have a few on a local disk. Ah, spit, that's the one that crashed a few months ago, and I've not wired up the programmer again yet, so I have some ROMs but not the images. The ones you want are: 23-753A9 RX01 DX Boot ROM 23-757A9 UDA50 DU Boot ROM } I'm not sure if both are 23-767A9 UDA50/RAxx DU Boot ROM } correct -- see below 23-811A9 RX02 DY Boot ROM I have at least one of each of these, except the 23-767A9. I probably have that number in the list because it's been listed somewhere with that description, but since I have two 23-757A9 and no 23-767A9, I wonder if the 767 is a typo? Or is the "DU" against 757 meant to be "TU"? I'll host the images if no-one already has. > Question: > Is the DY (supposed for RX02) able to boot RX01s too? If you mean boot from RX01 drives, no, the bootstraps are different. If you mean boot from an RX01 diskette in an RX02 drive, yes, it should work, though depending on the OS, the diskette may need a DY boot block. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Dec 4 07:50:37 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: hardware fault on SGI Indigo? In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fabian_H=E4nsel_=3Cfabtagon=40gmx=2Ede=3E _______=22hardware_fault_on_SGI_Indigo=3F=22_=28Nov_24=2C_17=3A30=29?= References: <41A4B73A.7020105@gmx.de> Message-ID: <10412041350.ZM3119@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 24 2004, 17:30, Fabian H?nsel wrote: > I have an old SGI Indigo (IP12) which refuses my attempts to populate > the harddisk with Irix 5.3. The harddisk doesn't boot, so I assume it to > be empty. > > I get sashIP12 and fx.IP12 to load from cd, but using fx with that hd fails: > > SGI Version 5.3 IP12 Oct 31, 1994 > fx: "device-name"= (dksc) > fx: ctrl#= (0) > fx: drive#= (1) > ... opening dksc(0,1,) > dks0d1s10: Drive not ready: RAM failure, ASQ=0x80. > fx: warning: Failed to open dksc(0,1,10) > SGI Version 5.3 IP12 Oct 31, 1994 > > (and the same again, if I want) > > Is it trying to open a non-existent partition dks0d1s10? Is it a > software-fault? If it's a hardware fault: What's broken: hd or ram? That looks like a faulty drive. Does it spin up? fx is trying to read the status from the drive, and getting a message to say that the drive has an error and is "not ready". "Not ready" means either not spinning, or not able to initialise itself for some other reason, like a fault in the drive's own RAM). If it were just because the drive isn't set for auto-spinup, fx would issue a spinup command, so it would seem in this case there is some other drive problem. dks0d1s10 is the first disk (dk) unit (d1), on the first SCSI controller (s0), partition 10. Partition 10 is "the whole of the disk". Once the disk has an SGI label structure written to it, things will be able to find the volume header, but initially fx just accesses "the whole disk", ie ignoring any partition table (since such things are OS-dependant). > The hd is in the bottom drive bay. After my enter keystroke in line 4 > (drive#=1) the led flashes for a short time and at the same time (or > maybe some millisecconds later) the error message appears. As you probably know, the SCSI ID is automatically determined by the bay you put the drive in. At least, it is if you use standard sleds, which have a connection from the ID pins on the drive, via the sled connector, to the backplane. A few (genuine SGI) sleds have a selector switch instead. The flash from the LED is the drive responding to the command sent by fx to read the status from the drive, so the chances are that the drive is being correctly addressed. If its address was mis-jumpered, which can happen if you didn't connect the drive ID jumpers to the sled, it either wouldn't respond, or would respond to address 0 (which is the Indigo's SCSI controller's address) which would cause different problems. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From stephane.tsacas at gmail.com Sat Dec 4 08:27:46 2004 From: stephane.tsacas at gmail.com (Stephane Tsacas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: bitsavers is down In-Reply-To: <005b01c4d9cb$7b5a7210$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <20041204052559.2FE264809@spies.com> <005b01c4d9cb$7b5a7210$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: AND ftp://bitsavers.curie.fr for people in Europe :) -- Stephane Paris, France. From GOOI at oce.nl Sat Dec 4 10:13:40 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: M9312 boot roms (again) Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A011133F8@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Sorry, I never bothered making or downloading those ROM images. I must admit that it would be a nice addition to the M9312 page that I have put in the PDP-11/34 folder ... if Pete gets his hard disk data recovered (or read the PROMs again), I will gladly add that to my site (if Pete does not object). As proven last week: some copies of the stuff at several sites may not be such a luxury as first thought of ... - Henk, PA8PDP. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Sent: 4-12-2004 13:29 Subject: Re: M9312 boot roms (again) On Nov 27 2004, 23:01, Wai-Sun Chia wrote: > Hello, > Sorry to beat this old horse again, but did anybody set up a > repository for M9312 boot images since the last discussion? > (I actually went to look for them in www.classiccmp.org/M9312, and > Pete's DECROM repository doesn't seem to have the 23-xxxA9 M9312 > roms) > > I need some of them, specifically the DU, DX, and DY. Henk may have (http://www.pdp-11.nl/index.html), but maybe not online. I have a few on a local disk. Ah, spit, that's the one that crashed a few months ago, and I've not wired up the programmer again yet, so I have some ROMs but not the images. The ones you want are: 23-753A9 RX01 DX Boot ROM 23-757A9 UDA50 DU Boot ROM } I'm not sure if both are 23-767A9 UDA50/RAxx DU Boot ROM } correct -- see below 23-811A9 RX02 DY Boot ROM I have at least one of each of these, except the 23-767A9. I probably have that number in the list because it's been listed somewhere with that description, but since I have two 23-757A9 and no 23-767A9, I wonder if the 767 is a typo? Or is the "DU" against 757 meant to be "TU"? I'll host the images if no-one already has. > Question: > Is the DY (supposed for RX02) able to boot RX01s too? If you mean boot from RX01 drives, no, the bootstraps are different. If you mean boot from an RX01 diskette in an RX02 drive, yes, it should work, though depending on the OS, the diskette may need a DY boot block. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Dec 4 10:10:03 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: Free (UK): PCB developing tanks Message-ID: <10412041610.ZM3194@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Anybody want three developing tanks for making printed circuit boards? They're intended for developing/etching/tinning and each holds almost 9 litres (about 1.9 gallons/2.3 US gallons) of liquid when working. Each is 490mm x 140mm x 370mm high (400mm including the lid, with its handle), and they're designed to be fitted into cutouts in a bench top, though you could stand them on a low bench or in a (large) sink. One is a plain tank, one is fitted with a thermostatically-controlled heater, and one has both heater and air-bubble tubes, and I have two controller boxes for them (which have been kept indoors, in the attic). I'm never realistically going to use these, as I have small fit-in-a-cupboard dishes and a heater I use for small boards. I got these from the University about 10 years ago, intending to put them in my new workshop. Unfortunately by the time the workshop was built I had a lot more computers, electronics, and mechanical things, there wasn't room, and The Boss refused to give up space in her utility room. They've been stored where she keeps garden stuff, ever since, but I've been given an ultimatum. If you can collect them, let me know by Monday that they're wanted otherwise they'll go to the local tip. If I know someone will take them, I might persuade The Boss that they can remain in her utility room (now they've been cleaned up a bit) until Christmas, but suggesting any longer would probably have fatal consequences (for the tanks, not me; I'd probably get away with crippling injury). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From vcf at siconic.com Sat Dec 4 11:18:52 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: bitsavers is down In-Reply-To: <20041204061720.5E2DF48B2@spies.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Dec 2004, Al Kossow wrote: > > Who is next? > > http://www.mcjones.org/dustydecks/ What is the deal with that? Some sort of anti-antique computer hobbyist conspiracy? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sat Dec 4 11:20:43 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: Removing adhesives, was Re: Reel-to-reel tape decks (was: Re: ZX81 denigrated!) In-Reply-To: <41B1AA2A.8090703@pacbell.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Dec 2004, William Maddox wrote: > By far the best stuff I've ever used is "Goo-Gone", a citrus-solvent/ > petroleum-solvent blend. Perhaps it (or an equivalent) is sold in the > UK. I've also used Goo-Gone for cleaning ink from plastic surfaces. > It is a bit harsher than isopropanol, but take off some marks that > isopropanol will not, and doesn't visibly affect opaque plastics (or > most transparent ones for that matter). TIP: Apply it to the cloth, not the item being cleaned ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Dec 4 12:27:11 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: Removing adhesives, was Re: Reel-to-reel tape decks (was: Re: ZX81 denigrated!) In-Reply-To: References: <41B1AA2A.8090703@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041204132711.007c2100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:20 AM 12/4/04 -0800, sellam wrote: >On Sat, 4 Dec 2004, William Maddox wrote: > >> By far the best stuff I've ever used is "Goo-Gone", a citrus-solvent/ >> petroleum-solvent blend. Perhaps it (or an equivalent) is sold in the >> UK. I've also used Goo-Gone for cleaning ink from plastic surfaces. >> It is a bit harsher than isopropanol, but take off some marks that >> isopropanol will not, and doesn't visibly affect opaque plastics (or >> most transparent ones for that matter). > >TIP: Apply it to the cloth, not the item being cleaned ;) I've always found it more effective to put on the item being cleaned and let it soak under the label. I've never seen it harm plastic so letting it sit on the plastic shouldn't do any harm. TIP II. The stuff will evaporate somewhat quickly. If you want it to soak longer, cover it with tinfoil. TIP III. It works better if it's warm. But it's flammable so don't try heating it directly. Heat the object thoroughly then apply the solvent. Joe From pkoning at equallogic.com Sat Dec 4 13:16:10 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: Removing adhesives, was Re: Reel-to-reel tape decks (was: Re: ZX81 denigrated!) References: <41B1AA2A.8090703@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <16818.3322.438948.725671@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "William" == William Maddox writes: William> Tony Duell wrote: >> Lighter fluid is often a good solvent for removing adhesive >> residue... William> By far the best stuff I've ever used is "Goo-Gone", a William> citrus-solvent/ petroleum-solvent blend. >From an adhesives chemical engineer, I learned about WD-40 for this job. Then again, I usually use lacquer thinner -- which is great when the substrate is insoluble. The WD-40 is the fallback for things that don't appreciate potent solvents. paul From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Dec 4 13:21:30 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: Signetics 8x300 instruction set References: Message-ID: <000301c4da36$76a328f0$0100a8c0@screamer> I've got a 8x300 programming manual. Possibly some processor chips also. I'll try to dig it out if this info is not already available. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Jennings" To: Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 3:05 AM Subject: Signetics 8x300 instruction set > I've been trying to recall, with no success, how subroutine > calls were implemented in the 8x300. I used to write code for > this weird thing (realtime video processing) and the assembler > I used (some horror that ran under TSO) hid it from me so I > don't have a clear recollection of the method. > > It's a really weird CPU, "subroutines" were essentially jumps, > as in a lot of machines, but the "return" was through some > strange jump table or something. > > Once upon a time there was a website with CPU instruction cards > (man I had a huge pile of these things, pitched loooong ago...) > but I can't find it. Nothing on bitsavers I can find. > > > > (There's also some really bad info out there on the origins > of "Harvard" architecture, attributed to some stupid hardvard > vs. princeton microprocessor design thing. Please -- about 40 > years earlier: that asshole Aiken. No one liked him anyways.) From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Dec 4 13:36:14 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: Signetics 8x300 instruction set References: <200412032231.iB3MV2oT030983@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <003101c4da38$8583d610$0100a8c0@screamer> Your loss! I bought my first airplane as a result of a TMI stock deal. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Parker" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 5:31 PM Subject: Re: Signetics 8x300 instruction set > > Tom Jennings wrote: >> >>(There's also some really bad info out there on the origins >>of "Harvard" architecture, attributed to some stupid hardvard >>vs. princeton microprocessor design thing. Please -- about 40 >>years earlier: that asshole Aiken. No one liked him anyways.) > > (ok, that made my laugh. pretty hard.) > > Aiken. Howard was it? > > used to be some big boxes he made in the lobby of one of the builds over > at h-a-r-v-a-r-d... > > I think he was quoted as saying something like, "if your ideas are any > good you'll have to jam them down other people's thoats". > > I have always like that. And have found it to be largely true. Not > that I have had that many good ideas. > > (I know you were joking, I just had to chime in :-) > > Next I think we should rag on Danny Hillis and that silly connection > machine. I remember asking, "so, with 64 cpus you run 64 compiles at > one time, right?" and the interviewer said, "no, no ones ever done > that". I walked out shaking my head and didn't take the job. > > -brad From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Sat Dec 4 14:23:24 2004 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: HP 64000 References: <20041203205641.63DC748D5@spies.com> Message-ID: <0b5001c4da3f$1b727fe0$7900a8c0@athlon1200> Al I doubt anyone will bid on the system. Probably just get dumped. There's still a couple of days to go. If you know exactly what you want let me know and I'll pass the info to the seller. He may be prepared to hold anything he has that you need till we can figure out how to get it to you. Dave B, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" To: Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 9:56 AM Subject: Re: HP 64000 > > It's a drag that it is in NZ. There are still docs I'm missing > in the hp/64000 section of bitsavers, and copies of the software > would be good to archive. > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.5 - Release Date: 3/12/2004 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.5 - Release Date: 3/12/2004 From celebdirectent at earthlink.net Sat Dec 4 08:40:15 2004 From: celebdirectent at earthlink.net (Cord G. Coslor - Celebrity Direct Entertainment) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: for sale Message-ID: <024a01c4da0f$2c0c8880$6501a8c0@office> If any of you happen to be in SW Florida today (Sat) or Sunday, December 5, we're having a garage sale and a lot of classics and their software are available. Mainly 8-bits, such as TRS-80s, Apples, Commodores, Atari, etc., etc., etc. Its at 2587 Lakeshore Circle in Port Charlotte, Florida. Directly off of Hwy 41 at West Tarpon Blvd. Sincerely, CORD G. COSLOR Celebrity Direct Entertainment ----- | Celebrity Direct Entertainment | PO Box 494314 - Port Charlotte, FL - 33949 | phone: 941.624.2254 fax: 309.218.1426 | www.CelebrityDirect.net * CDE@CelebrityDirect.net | AOL IM: CelebDirectEnt: : : From bv at norbionics.com Sat Dec 4 13:14:23 2004 From: bv at norbionics.com (=?iso-8859-15?Q?Bj=F8rn?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: IBM 3270 interfacing? In-Reply-To: <1100343546.1439.1.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> References: <1100340833.24579.89.camel@fortran> <1100343546.1439.1.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> Message-ID: On 13 Nov 2004 05:59:06 -0500, james wrote: > On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 05:13, Tore S Bekkedal wrote: >> Does anyone know anything about the protocol that the IBM 3270 terminals >> uses on the BNC ports labelled I/O? Is there any possibility of hooking >> this up to anything modern? > > You mean SNA/SDLC isn't modern? It's at least still very popular. Lots > of it in use. I have been away for a time, and am just checking my backlog. I used to work with 3270-emulation and compatible hardware. Old 3270 controllers did not use SDLC, they were running Basic Mode aka binary syncroneous. SDLC was an option which came later. This is a synchroneous protocol without bit stuffing, to obtain binary transparency octets which were identical to control codes had to be escaped. IBM 3270 used the EBCDIC control codes for their documented purpose. HP 2645 terminals had an option to run multidropped using an almost identical protocol. This protocol is half duplex. > > I don't remember what the BNC's are for though, but if it's not SNA then > it might be some kind of video. > The coax is used to connect the controller to the terminals. The controller was connected by modem to the host at speeds up to 19200 bits/s, and controlled a cluster of terminals. The coax protocol was similar, but used some type of manchester encoding at around 500 kilobaud. I think Orchid made a PC card with the 3270 coax connector. I believe I have one hidden away somewhere in my collection. -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ From bv at norbionics.com Sat Dec 4 13:31:16 2004 From: bv at norbionics.com (=?utf-8?Q?Bj=C3=B8rn?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: Ken Iverson, creator of APL dies. In-Reply-To: <20041117023437.MUPI14765.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> References: <20041117023437.MUPI14765.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:34:37 -0500, Dave Dunfield wrote: > > http://www.itbusiness.ca/index.asp?theaction=61&sid=57357 > > Using IBM APL on the University of New Brunswicks System 370 > was what got me "hooked" on interactive computing, and it has > been a favorite of mine ever since. > Hm - looking over the shoulder of Ken Iverson as he typed in his APL program convinced me that it would not be the programming language for me. On the other hand, it was the first time I saw somebody older than myself developing faster than me. Now that I?m an Old Phart, I am even more impressed by what he was doing at the time since my coding speed has long since decreased in proportion to the number of blunders I have learned from. -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ From vcf at siconic.com Sat Dec 4 15:08:27 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: Removing adhesives, was Re: Reel-to-reel tape decks (was: Re: ZX81 denigrated!) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041204132711.007c2100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Dec 2004, Joe R. wrote: > At 09:20 AM 12/4/04 -0800, sellam wrote: > >On Sat, 4 Dec 2004, William Maddox wrote: > > > >> By far the best stuff I've ever used is "Goo-Gone", a citrus-solvent/ > >> petroleum-solvent blend. Perhaps it (or an equivalent) is sold in the > >> UK. I've also used Goo-Gone for cleaning ink from plastic surfaces. > >> It is a bit harsher than isopropanol, but take off some marks that > >> isopropanol will not, and doesn't visibly affect opaque plastics (or > >> most transparent ones for that matter). > > > >TIP: Apply it to the cloth, not the item being cleaned ;) > > I've always found it more effective to put on the item being cleaned and > let it soak under the label. I've never seen it harm plastic so letting it > sit on the plastic shouldn't do any harm. Ok, but don't rub it briskly expecting it to work better. If you do, expect your plastics to start deforming. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pkoning at equallogic.com Sat Dec 4 15:13:41 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: IBM 3270 interfacing? References: <1100340833.24579.89.camel@fortran> <1100343546.1439.1.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> Message-ID: <16818.10373.98246.126520@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Bj??rn" == Bj??rn writes: Bj??rn> IBM 3270 used the EBCDIC control codes for their documented Bj??rn> purpose. HP 2645 terminals had an option to run multidropped Bj??rn> using an almost identical protocol. This protocol is half Bj??rn> duplex. That brings back some nightmares... the ugliest protocol by far I ever worked on was the one used by Harris 2200 newspaper display editing terminals. Bisync, half duplex, multidrop, using a PDP-11 DL11-E async line at the host end. Bletch. Naturally, the driver would mess up only during the midnight to 6 am shift... and I got to debug it while the composing room foreman was waiting for things to be put back into working order. paul From sethm at loomcom.com Sat Dec 4 15:57:08 2004 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: trailing-edge.com down? Message-ID: <20041204215708.GA31806@loomcom.com> Hi folks, I've just re-joined the lists after a... uh, something like a four year absense, I guess! It's good to be back, even if it is a little more verbose than I remember. I looked through the recent archives and didn't see this covered already, forgive me if I missed it -- I've been unable to contact www.trailing-edge.com or simh.trailing-edge.com for the last week or so. Is anyone else able to get through? Does anyone know if something is wrong? Or, alternately, does anyone know how else to get in touch with Tim Shoppa to ask, other than his trailing-edge.com email? Maybe I'll resort to snail mail. -Seth -- "It looks just like a Telefunken U47! Seth Morabito You'll love it." - Frank Zappa sethm@loomcom.com From chenmel at earthlink.net Sat Dec 4 16:43:15 2004 From: chenmel at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 Questions. Message-ID: Today at auction I acquired a MicroVAX 3100 system. It's my first VAX hardware. I don't know a lot about it and thought I would ask here for help. I put up a picture of the system on some personal webspace. The page is: http://sasteven.multics.org/MicroVAX/MicroVAX3100.html The system is a low-profile box, with one opening in the front face with a 5-1/4" form factor tape drive presently installed. There are free connectors and space inside for a single narrow SCSI drive. The system has two mezzazine-mounted memory cards inside and appears to have 16 megs of RAM on the cards. The model plate on back (one of the pictures on the page I put up) reads: Model- DV031DTA-A - A01 S/N- KA324TJ182 Some questions: 1. I notice on the Web that there is quite a bit of info about MicroVAX 3100 systems. I also see that there are a variety of models. Is there an easy way to figure out which one I have? 2. Would it be possible and/or work to replace the tape drive with a SCSI CD-ROM reader? I don't have a source for tapes. 3. Is it worth putting VMS on this box? It looks like it could run NetBSD as well. I also have McKusik's BSD archive CD set that he sells. Is there a flavor of vintage UNIX that I could put on the system? 4. What is the console on this hardware? It has the three serial ports on RJ-type connectors, and from what I gather this is a TTY-only machine, no framebuffer, etc. 5. Is there a thorough hardware reference for this machine out there on the net that I should get? I looked on the HP/Compaq site, and it appears that they pay a small amount of homage to the system, but without much substancial info. A hardware reference manual in PDF would be great. Any and all info would be appreciated. If there's a good site that I should be pointed to (there seems to be tons and tons of info out there, which results in Google pulling up a huge mass of stuff to weed through) instead of answering these specific questions, a pointer to it would be appreciated. Thanks, Scott. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Dec 4 16:47:35 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: Signetics 8x300 instruction set References: <200412032231.iB3MV2oT030983@mwave.heeltoe.com> <003101c4da38$8583d610$0100a8c0@screamer> Message-ID: <41B23E87.8050201@jetnet.ab.ca> Bob Shannon wrote: > Your loss! > > I bought my first airplane as a result of a TMI stock deal. What , no FREE computer.?!!! Now what wonder is how many good products -- hardware and software have been lost because of bad marketing or company buy-outs or other sales-droid style things. From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sat Dec 4 17:01:37 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 Questions. Message-ID: <0412042301.AA10572@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Scott Stevens wrote: > 1. I notice on the Web that there is quite a bit of info about > MicroVAX 3100 systems. I also see that there are a variety of models. > Is there an easy way to figure out which one I have? Power it up with a terminal connected to the console port, write down what it scribbles on the console on power-up, and post it to the list. One of the lines (the one starting with KA) identifies the system board. > 2. Would it be possible and/or work to replace the tape drive with a > SCSI CD-ROM reader? I don't have a source for tapes. Look for one that can be set to 512 byte block mode. > 3. Is it worth putting VMS on this box? That's only for you to decide for yourself. What OS do you want to run? Do you want VMS or UNIX? > Is there a flavor of vintage UNIX that I could put on the system? I'm pretty close to getting 4.3BSD-Quasijarus to run on it. Just need to write the SCSI code. > 4. What is the console on this hardware? It has the three serial > ports on RJ-type connectors, and from what I gather this is a TTY-only > machine, no framebuffer, etc. You are correct, except that the connectors are not RJ but DEC423 MMJ. In normal operation port 1 is the console. There is also an "alternative diagnostic console" mode enabled by a switch on the back that moves the console to port 3 and makes the CPU halt on line break. > 5. Is there a thorough hardware reference for this machine out there > on the net that I should get? I looked on the HP/Compaq site, and it > appears that they pay a small amount of homage to the system, but > without much substancial info. A hardware reference manual in PDF > would be great. Unfortunately it's a completely undocumented machine. DEC never published a real technical manual for it, only screwing/unscrewing guides for failed servoids. MS From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Sat Dec 4 17:10:50 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 Questions. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00d201c4da56$8030a210$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > Today at auction I acquired a MicroVAX 3100 system. It's my first VAX > hardware. Once the bug bites, it won't be your last! > The system is a low-profile box, with one opening in the front face > with a 5-1/4" form factor tape drive presently installed. There are > free connectors and space inside for a single narrow SCSI drive. The > system has two mezzazine-mounted memory cards inside and appears to > have 16 megs of RAM on the cards. The tape is a TZ30. Basically a SCSI TK50, so anything you read about the TK50 probably applies. They're not as bad as people make out. Obviously 95MB does not go too far these days. But since almost all applicable Oses will support this tape bott media (and it is bootable from the console) I would keep it around if I were you. > 1. I notice on the Web that there is quite a bit of info about > MicroVAX 3100 systems. I also see that there are a variety of models. > Is there an easy way to figure out which one I have? Yes. Since the memory is a stack of cards rather than a set of sticks, it must be a MicroVAX 3100 Model 10 or 10e or 20 or 20e. The difference between the 10 and 20 is the size of the case: the Model 10 has one internal tray on which you can mount drives, the 20 hase two. Your picture looks like a 10. Assuming that that is so, then you either have a Model 10 or a Model 10e. The 10e is slightly later and maybe half as fast again (don't get exceited :-)). If you hook up a console and power up you can tell the difference. A Model 10 will report itself as being a KA41-A, a Model 10e will report itself as being a KA41-D. My guess would be a Model 10 as these are far more common. (Note: a 20 or 20e will report the same things: the 10/20 distinction is *only* the box it comes in). > 2. Would it be possible and/or work to replace the tape drive with a > SCSI CD-ROM reader? I don't have a source for tapes. Yes. Best to use on of the DEC ones since you will be able to boot off it. OpenVMS, at least, cares. I do not recall whether the console itself cares (so you might be able to boot into Ultrix or one of the BSDs etc. with any old CDROM). If you cannot get an RRD42 (or better), look for one which supports 512-byte blocks. > > 3. Is it worth putting VMS on this box? It looks like it could run > NetBSD as well. I also have McKusik's BSD archive CD set that he > sells. Is there a flavor of vintage UNIX that I could put on the > system? Ultrix will run on these, as will NetBSD. OpenVMS will also run on it, but the maximum memory you can put in is 32MB, which might be a bit limiting. > 4. What is the console on this hardware? It has the three serial > ports on RJ-type connectors, and from what I gather this is a TTY-only > machine, no framebuffer, etc. No video. For that you need a VAXstation 3100 of some flavour. I should remember whether it is the rightmost or leftmost MMJ that provides the console, but I don't :-0. 9600, 8 NONE should set you on your way. BTW: IIRC the three upper connectors from left to right are [4-11] asynch comms (probably a DHW42 - needs a cable to bring out the umpteen terminal ports), [B1] a synch port (I used to support the software for these!) and the external SCSI connector [diamond]. > 5. Is there a thorough hardware reference for this machine out there > on the net that I should get? I looked on the HP/Compaq site, and it > appears that they pay a small amount of homage to the system, but > without much substancial info. A hardware reference manual in PDF > would be great. http://vt100.net/manx > Any and all info would be appreciated. If there's a good site that I > should be pointed to (there seems to be tons and tons of info out > there, which results in Google pulling up a huge mass of stuff to weed > through) instead of answering these specific questions, a pointer to > it would be appreciated. Manx will find pretty much everything you need. -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From pat at computer-refuge.org Sat Dec 4 17:13:07 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 Questions. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200412041813.07332.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Saturday 04 December 2004 17:43, Scott Stevens wrote: > Today at auction I acquired a MicroVAX 3100 system. It's my first > VAX hardware. Ahh, you're the guy... I was only interested in making sure it didn't get scrapped for parts, really. Anyways, I'm glad it went to someone who'll appreciate it. I was afraid it was just a clueless idiot, who'd get it home, figure out what it is, and then throw it out, but it seems my worries are unfounded. : ) There seemed to be a lot of those there after the Cisco gear today. > I don't know a lot about it and thought I would ask here for help. I'll see what I can do. > I put up a picture of the system on some personal webspace. The page > is: http://sasteven.multics.org/MicroVAX/MicroVAX3100.html > > The system is a low-profile box, with one opening in the front face > with a 5-1/4" form factor tape drive presently installed. There are > free connectors and space inside for a single narrow SCSI drive. The > system has two mezzazine-mounted memory cards inside and appears to > have 16 megs of RAM on the cards. Not too bad for a VAX. > The model plate on back (one of the pictures on the page I put up) > reads: > Model- DV031DTA-A - A01 > S/N- KA324TJ182 > > Some questions: > > 1. I notice on the Web that there is quite a bit of info about > MicroVAX 3100 systems. I also see that there are a variety of > models. Is there an easy way to figure out which one I have? I can tell you it's either an M20, M20e, or M40. My guess, since it's not labelled which model, would be an M20, which has 2.4 VUPS. And, fairly nice, as it uses nice, cheap SCSI disks. > 2. Would it be possible and/or work to replace the tape drive with a > SCSI CD-ROM reader? I don't have a source for tapes. You should be able to, but you'll need the proper CDROM drive. I've had good luck with the 1" tall cdroms in Sparcstation 5's and 10's, which is basically the same as an RRD42. If you don't have any let me know, I've got some stock of them. > 3. Is it worth putting VMS on this box? It looks like it could run > NetBSD as well. I also have McKusik's BSD archive CD set that he > sells. Is there a flavor of vintage UNIX that I could put on the > system? VMS would run decently on that, you could run 7.2/7.3 even, as it has plenty of RAM. > 4. What is the console on this hardware? It has the three serial > ports on RJ-type connectors, and from what I gather this is a > TTY-only machine, no framebuffer, etc. Should be the MMJ connector labelled "3" IIRC. If want a proper MMJ cable, I've made them for people on the list before. If not, a piece of 4pr phone cable with the tab filed/cut off should be able to connect it to an RJ45->DE9 or DB25 adaptor properly. Xyplex, Sun, and Cisco-wired adaptors should all work with it. If you want a pinout, search google for "xyplex pinout" and hit I'm Feeling Lucky. > 5. Is there a thorough hardware reference for this machine out there > on the net that I should get? I looked on the HP/Compaq site, and it > appears that they pay a small amount of homage to the system, but > without much substancial info. A hardware reference manual in PDF > would be great. Try bitsavers (or, since it's currently down, my mirror at computer-refuge.org/bitsavers). > Any and all info would be appreciated. If there's a good site that I > should be pointed to (there seems to be tons and tons of info out > there, which results in Google pulling up a huge mass of stuff to > weed through) instead of answering these specific questions, a > pointer to it would be appreciated. Hmm. Compaq's openvms doc site is good for VMS documentation (free PDFs and HTML versions) at http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/ For other info, either looking at bitsavers or google should work well. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat Dec 4 17:24:38 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: HP diagnostic configurator help Message-ID: <003201c4da58$6e635f80$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Are there any cards which should never be used as the target for the basic I/O pretest (P=2) of the Diagnostic Configurator? I seem to recall there was one... but I'm finding several different cards which give trap cell halts but otherwise seem to work fine (passing diagnostics). Would this indicate a problem with the priority chain? Thanks in advance! Jay From chenmel at earthlink.net Sat Dec 4 18:17:31 2004 From: chenmel at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 Questions. In-Reply-To: <200412041813.07332.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200412041813.07332.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 18:13:07 -0500, you wrote: >On Saturday 04 December 2004 17:43, Scott Stevens wrote: >> Today at auction I acquired a MicroVAX 3100 system. It's my first >> VAX hardware. > >Ahh, you're the guy... I was only interested in making sure it didn't >get scrapped for parts, really. Anyways, I'm glad it went to someone >who'll appreciate it. I was afraid it was just a clueless idiot, who'd >get it home, figure out what it is, and then throw it out, but it seems >my worries are unfounded. : ) There seemed to be a lot of those there >after the Cisco gear today. > There are always a lot of choppers/scrappers and Windows-only people at the IUPUI auction. I spend a good amount of time steering 'regular folk' types looking for a home computer away from UNIX hardware and huge SGI/Sun monitors that they'd end up ditching after they gave up trying to use it. At one of the earlier sales this year somebody bought a whole skid of Sun Ultra 5/10/20 boxes (I was carrying some stuff to the car when it came up unexpectedly and came in just as the bidding closed!) for $100. I heard later from someone else that "he never figured out what any of it was" and has probably stripped drives and memory before pitching most of it. Theres a lot of hardware-death out there committed by people with a Windows CD, a phillips screwdriver, and half a clue. > >You should be able to, but you'll need the proper CDROM drive. I've had >good luck with the 1" tall cdroms in Sparcstation 5's and 10's, which >is basically the same as an RRD42. If you don't have any let me know, >I've got some stock of them. > I've had good luck getting plain old Apple CD drives to boot in Sparc hardware (that can take the normal width CD), and have one or two drives that I was able to get to boot AIX on an ancient RS/6000 box I have (got two more huge RS6K boxes today for $5 each- off topic here, tho, too new). I'll dig around in stuff. Is there such a thing as bootable CD media for this MicroVAX that I could create? Maybe I need to dig around at NetBSD/vax for a while to get started... (getting NetBSD running is always a good way to 'wring out' an unusual system if it's supported) >> 4. What is the console on this hardware? It has the three serial >> ports on RJ-type connectors, and from what I gather this is a >> TTY-only machine, no framebuffer, etc. > >Should be the MMJ connector labelled "3" IIRC. If want a proper MMJ >cable, I've made them for people on the list before. If not, a piece >of 4pr phone cable with the tab filed/cut off should be able to connect >it to an RJ45->DE9 or DB25 adaptor properly. Xyplex, Sun, and >Cisco-wired adaptors should all work with it. If you want a pinout, >search google for "xyplex pinout" and hit I'm Feeling Lucky. > I found the Xyplex info in Google. I probably have one of these adapters lying around here someplace, but storage/organization here is kinda in crisis mode, so I'll probably have to make another by splicing a phone cable. Scott From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Dec 4 18:40:36 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: trailing-edge.com down? In-Reply-To: Seth Morabito "trailing-edge.com down?" (Dec 4, 13:57) References: <20041204215708.GA31806@loomcom.com> Message-ID: <10412050040.ZM4287@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 4 2004, 13:57, Seth Morabito wrote: > I've just re-joined the lists after a... uh, something like a four > year absense, I guess! It's good to be back, even if it is a little > more verbose than I remember. Welcome back :-) > I looked through the recent archives and didn't see this covered > already, forgive me if I missed it -- I've been unable to contact > www.trailing-edge.com or simh.trailing-edge.com for the last week > or so. Tim posted a note on alt.folklore.computers about a week ago, to say: The web-accessible archives at trailing-edge.com, namely simh.trailing-edge.com pdp-10.trailing-edge.com pdp-11.trailing-edge.com etc. are down due to windstorm activity yesterday. With a little luck things may be back up early next week (week of Nov 29 - Dec 3). Realistically there are a lot of trees and wires down and hooking back up to the interweb may take a while. The SIMH and pdp-11 stuff as of July 2004 is mirrored at http://bitsavers.org/simh.trailing-edge.com/ http://bitsavers.org/pdp-11.trailing-edge.com/ Unfortunately bitsavers is also down, but Jay has a mirror at classiccmp: http://www.classiccmp.org/bitsavers/simh.trailing-edge.com/ http://www.classiccmp.org/bitsavers/pdp-11.trailing-edge.com/ I'm not surprised you couldn't find anything, it's just taken me 15 minutes, and I knew what I was looking for! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 4 18:53:02 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: hp 9121 (cctalk Vol 16, Issue 6) In-Reply-To: <200412040839.iB48dCWx018050@queen.cs.drexel.edu> from "Vassilis Prevelakis" at Dec 4, 4 03:39:12 am Message-ID: > But I suspect that the problem is a dirty R/W head on the drive. My first question is : What sort of disks are you using? If you're using HD (PC 1.44 M byte) ones then you will have problems. The density-select hole will mean the disk-inserted sensor is not activated so the drive won't think it's got a disk in it. And even if you cover that hole up, the coercivity of the media is different between DD (which is what you shoudl eb using) and HD disks. The latter will _not_ be reliable! > > You do not mention whether you have the 2 drive model (9121D) and > whether you have the same error message when you try accessing the > second drive. If you only have the prob with the first drive, then > its almost certainly a dirty R/W head inside the drive. > > Have you tried cleaning the heads? The easiest way is to try to > find a cleaning diskette (usu available for PCs). Such diskettes > usually have an extra hole across from the WRITE-PROTECT tab. I am in two minds about this recomendation. On the one hand, if you've got no experience of dismantling electronic devices, it may be safer to use a cleaning disk. But those disks are very rough on the heads, I NEVER use one! The 9121 comes apart quite easily. After disconnecting the cables at the back, it's a few screws on the back and the cover comes off (lift the back edge first I think). Each drive is hald down by 3 or 4 screws, and there are 2 cables to uplug. Then one screw on the back of the drive chassis itself holds the cover on. With that removed you can lift the presure pad carefully (this is a single-head drive) and clean the head with a cotton bud dipped in propan-2-ol. But then I've worked on many, many such drives... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 4 19:00:25 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: Removing adhesives, was Re: Reel-to-reel tape decks (was: Re: ZX81 In-Reply-To: <41B1AA2A.8090703@pacbell.net> from "William Maddox" at Dec 4, 4 04:14:34 am Message-ID: > > Tony Duell wrote: > > > Lighter fluid is often a good solvent for removing adhesive residue... > > By far the best stuff I've ever used is "Goo-Gone", a citrus-solvent/ > petroleum-solvent blend. Perhaps it (or an equivalent) is sold in the There's Electrolube (and probably Servisol) 'Label Remover' which is probably much the same stuff (it certainly has a somewhat 'citrus' smell). It works very well. -tony From glen.slick at gmail.com Sat Dec 4 19:14:28 2004 From: glen.slick at gmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: CS/80 Information In-Reply-To: <04b601c4d0b6$3dbae3e0$6400a8c0@steve> References: <04b601c4d0b6$3dbae3e0$6400a8c0@steve> Message-ID: <1e1fc3e904120417146c1cfc3b@mail.gmail.com> See here: http://www.classiccmp.org/bitsavers/pdf/hp/disc/5955-3442_cs80-is-pm.pdf On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:10:58 -0600, Stephen Fisher wrote: > I ran across a message at > http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-February/010332.html where > you mention that you had a CS/80 specification. Do you by chance still have > that or know where I could find it? > > Thanks > Stephen > > From fernande at internet1.net Sat Dec 4 20:03:29 2004 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: Removing adhesives, was Re: Reel-to-reel tape decks (was: Re: ZX81 denigrated!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41B26C71.4040503@internet1.net> Sellem, Are you confusing Goo Gone, with Goof Off? I've never had Goo Gone damage plastic. This is a timely thread for me, since I just bought a bunch of the stuff. I'm trying to get old tape off of an old dining room table that will be my new computer desk. The table was used for years as a desk by my grandmother, but she taped a sheet of formica on the top.... why, I don't know! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >>>TIP: Apply it to the cloth, not the item being cleaned ;) >> >> I've always found it more effective to put on the item being cleaned and >>let it soak under the label. I've never seen it harm plastic so letting it >>sit on the plastic shouldn't do any harm. > > > Ok, but don't rub it briskly expecting it to work better. If you do, > expect your plastics to start deforming. > From tomj at wps.com Sat Dec 4 20:42:33 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:09 2005 Subject: Upcoming Trip... In-Reply-To: <200412040944.iB49i30b018310@queen.cs.drexel.edu> References: <200412040944.iB49i30b018310@queen.cs.drexel.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Dec 2004, Vassilis Prevelakis wrote: > > Wow. Did I just go through some sort of time warp? metoo I just got a bunch of mail (random?...) from late Nov. This sounds like a software bug, flapping clock, ... ? From shirsch at adelphia.net Sat Dec 4 21:05:14 2004 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Who needs a Profile or Widget harddisk ? In-Reply-To: <1101595909.26590.45.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <9661CB5E-40B9-11D9-931B-000A9586BBB0@bluewin.ch> <1101595909.26590.45.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Nov 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Sat, 2004-11-27 at 22:16 +0100, Jos Dreesen wrote: > > Not that I have any spare ones, but look at this site for a description > > of a IDE to Profile/widget translator. > > > > http://john.ccac.rwth-aachen.de:8000/patrick/idefile.htm > > > > The website does not (yet) give full details. > > Please note that the project is not mine, we are just looking how much > > interest there is, therefore raise hands if interested in a PCB. > > Hmm, a way of backing up / restoring to / from a machine connected to > the serial port might be a handy feature, by the way - assuming the port > speed doesn't knock that on the head.. > > I'll mention it to the others at the museum - cool bit of hardware :) > We've got 4 working Profiles left (and a 5th that we haven't tested yet) > so we're doing OK for working units at the moment. Good to know this > exists though! > > Getting working ST506 drives still of course isn't much of a problem, > but far as I recall the original drives were low level formatted by > Apple themselves prior to being shipped and neither the necessary > hardware or software is around to do this these days :-( Actually, a lot of it is floating around. The only thing I've never been able to find is the 10MB ProFile formatting utility. You can perform a low-level format using a Lisa or an Apple ///. The hardest bit to find is a Z8 CPU with "piggyback" socket. There's a ROM image which must be burned into a 2708 (from memory) and plugged onto the uController. The entire unit replaces the masked-ROM Z8 in the ProFile. Steve Quote of the Year: "The five person voting panel voted 57 to 3.14 in favour of getting rid of the Diebold machines." - 'Downside' From chenmel at earthlink.net Sat Dec 4 23:02:43 2004 From: chenmel at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: free giveaway: Televideo keyboard Message-ID: In a box of keyboards I bought today there was a Televideo terminal keyboard. There are no model markings on it, it has a phone-cord sized RJ-style connector. I don't know what model of terminal it came from. First person to reply who will pay shipping can have it. I can 'crack it open' to see if there are model # markings on the circuit board if need be. Shipping will be from central Indiana. Scott From john at guntersville.net Sun Dec 5 00:35:22 2004 From: john at guntersville.net (John C. Ellingboe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Found : two TK50 tapes with Microvax II S/W References: <200411232059.iANKxM20026126@mwave.heeltoe.com> <003101c4d295$a32a8790$0100a8c0@screamer> <41A5476B.6000605@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <41B2AC2A.5B5A65F1@guntersville.net> Doc Shipley wrote: > > Bob Shannon wrote: > > > Once upon a time I used to test and configure MicroVAX II's for Ben > > Heffron... > > > > Back in the day, I got the following TK50 tapes: > > > > Tape #1, marked "MicroVax II Service Diagnostics", dated 10/6/89. > > > > Tape #2, marked "VWSDemo.bak, Flight017.bak backup/save sets" > > > > The first tape needs no explaination, the second tape is a rather cool > > 'toy' we ran > > on two microvax II's with the graphics boards and mice, it was an > > interactive > > combat flight simulator (rather primative). > > > > I recall getting to shoot down one of the other tech's day after day. > > > > At any rate, said tapes are seeking a new home. > > SCHWINNG! > > I just put together a VMS VAXstation with TZ30 with the express > purpose of making a SAVESETof the MV-II Diags - Customer and Field > Maintenance - tapes that I have. The Maintenance tape is suspect, so a > comparison tape would be groovy. > > I'll image them and then pass them on if somebody else wants the > originals. > > I also have Terry Murphy's MV-I Diags on RX50 that I need to image. > I just last month got a probably-good floppy drive for the MV-II, so I > should be able to image them if not test them. > > Al, do you want copies of this stuff? > > Doc I would most certainly like to obtain a copy of tape #1 if that would be possible. To whom would I need to provide a tape? From sethm at loomcom.com Sun Dec 5 03:33:33 2004 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Wired running SGI Article In-Reply-To: <002801c4d447$658a1050$192d1941@game> References: <002801c4d447$658a1050$192d1941@game> Message-ID: <20041205093332.GA3104@loomcom.com> On Sat, Nov 27, 2004 at 01:07:22AM -0500, Teo Zenios wrote: > > One of these days I will have to check out an old SGI to see what the fuss > was about. I worked for SGI in the mid 90s (well, contracted, but contractors were not looked down upon there like they were a lot of other places), and have a certain fondness for those beasts. The article suggests an Indy as a cheap introduction, but in keeping with the 10-year-limit theme of the list, I'd suggest trying to find an R4K Indigo Extreme if you really want to fool around with one. Those were sweet but aging machines at the time I worked there, and I'd argue they're "classic" today. Also cheap, and relatively easy to find. -Seth -- "It looks just like a Telefunken U47! Seth Morabito You'll love it." - Frank Zappa sethm@loomcom.com From sethm at loomcom.com Sun Dec 5 03:39:21 2004 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Looking for a place to get small(-ish) SCSI drives Message-ID: <20041205093921.GB3104@loomcom.com> I fool around with a lot of systems that want small (by today's standards) 50-pin SCSI drives. A few years ago you couldn't walk around the streets of Palo Alto without tripping over big stacks of 500MB drives. These days, though, the stacks are made out of 9GB SCA drives -- far too large for my needs, and often far too large to be recognized by the computers I fool around with. But drives smaller than that are suddenly "rare" and "expensive", $30 or $40 for any SCSI drive under 9GB at a lot of resellers I've visited lately. Anyone know where those stacks went? Are small drives just impossible to come by for less than $30 now? -Seth -- "It looks just like a Telefunken U47! Seth Morabito You'll love it." - Frank Zappa sethm@loomcom.com From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sun Dec 5 03:43:38 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Looking for a place to get small(-ish) SCSI drives In-Reply-To: <20041205093921.GB3104@loomcom.com> References: <20041205093921.GB3104@loomcom.com> Message-ID: <200412050950.EAA24893@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I fool around with a lot of systems that want small (by today's > standards) 50-pin SCSI drives. A few years ago you couldn't walk > around the streets of Palo Alto without tripping over big stacks of > 500MB drives. These days, though, the stacks are made out of 9GB SCA > drives -- Well, I have a number of small 50-pin SCSI drives. While I have comparatively few SCA machines, I'd cheerfully swap my small drives for large 50-pin drives, or SCA drives with SCA-to-50+4+6-pin adapters (ie, adapters that break out SCA to 50pin SCSI, 4pin power, and three jumpers for SCSI ID). I have few to no machines that simply won't work with larger drives; even the ones that don't handle large drives right will use the beginning of a large drive as if it were a small drive. About the smallest drive I use these days is about 1G (I have a relatively large number of drives that are 1010M). But I haven't thrown out the older stuff. What sort of physical size limits? Some of my oldest drives are full-height 5?" drives.... > [D]rives smaller than that are suddenly "rare" and "expensive", $30 > or $40 for any SCSI drive under 9GB at a lot of resellers I've > visited lately. $30-$40 is unfortunately what shipping is likely to run to carry out the swap I refer to above. Unless of course you're going to be coming by Montreal for some other reason and can piggyback such a swap onto such a visit, I suppose. > Anyone know where those stacks went? Are small drives just > impossible to come by for less than $30 now? Probably. :-( /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Sun Dec 5 04:00:53 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: <00e201c4d99d$4ff55eb0$3a92a8c0@maggie> References: <200412032237.iB3Mbd13031702@mwave.heeltoe.com> <00e201c4d99d$4ff55eb0$3a92a8c0@maggie> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 20:05:14 -0500, Heinz Wolter wrote: > "RL02 / R80 drive combo" > That was what shipped with the 730.. the same beast in > 19" rack clothing. Yep... the HD is also called an RB80 (to distinguish it from the RM80 and RA80)... is still marked "R80" on the front, though. Those aren't as robust as an RL02, but plenty more robust than many RA81s... shame it's only a DEC-proprietary pseduo-SMD interface... no other drives work with it. For the weight and power consumption, an "RB-81" wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to ever have existed. OTOH, if you could _afford_ an RA-81 back in the day, you probably weren't likely to hook it to a CPU that cost _less_ than the drive (price point: RA81 in mid-1984 was ~$24K US, I _think_ an 11/730 was $30K at release, but I could have mis-remembered; the 11/725 was always less than the 730, but license costs were probably similar ($10K?)) AFAIK there's nothing preventing one from installing the IDC card into a 11/725 and hooking up a real RL02 up... would still be DQA1: to VMS AFAIK. Could even boot SA backup and/or diags from it. Given that I saw lots of boards in the KA730 set die and never saw on e dead IDC, it might not be too hard to find a spare somewhere - and the RL02 cable is the standard 40-pin one like you see on the RL11. > the 725 has a dual inter/external RC25- > an oddball drive sharing the same spindle for the internal as the > external.. Obviously not as nice as a stock RL02 since if it breaks.. > the 725 is toast.. unless you have external disks.. Right. Also... can't change removable platters on RC25 if booting from fixed platter because of shared spindle. Another reason for external drive (or Unibus SCSI and _internal_ 3.5" drive... power wouldn't be an issue there!) -ethan From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Sun Dec 5 04:17:27 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: References: <200412032237.iB3Mbd13031702@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 00:56:42 +0000 (GMT), Tony Duell wrote: > Personally I'd rather rebuild the roller (I've done HP [1] ones, I can't > believe the DEC ones are any worse) than adulterate a perfectly good DEC > PDP/VAX with a PC :-) The DEC ones should be identical... I've done several DEC and one HP (line analyzer) But one big advantage to a PC TU-58 emulator is zero seek time; it eliminates delays caused by non-optimized boot tapes. The other is that you never have to worry about having a clean tape handy if you want to make changes. Finally... no read errors. That having been said, I have several TU-58 drives and do still use real tapes, but I keep meaning to fiddle with an emulator someday, but one that is dedicated and has an LCD text display to select which tape/and or internal memory slot. Also, ideally, a TU-58 emulator should talk to the outside world, even if over a serial line... I could see building one that serves virtual tape images via HTTP/PPP... > [1] Including the 9100 and 9810, for which I had to make special tools... Ow. > As am I!. In the case of the 11/730, I think you want to remove the TU58 > chassis as well, you don't want to cook the chips on its controller board > if the PSU is malfunctioning... Indeed... a quick thing to do - disconnect one plug and it's safe. -ethan From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Sun Dec 5 04:53:46 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Book score in NZ Message-ID: Found a classic book at a used book shop - "Logic & Memory Experiments using TTL ICs, Book 2", Howard W. Sams & Co, 1979. The style is familiar - I'm sure I have other books in the series at home. I'm curious if anyone has "Book 1" and what's in it - book 2 is LED decoders, flip-flops, one-shots, and 1/4K - 16K SRAMs and EPROMs (2101s, 2708s, larger devices in similar families, etc.) Fun stuff to reminisce about - I remember reading books like these as a kid to take my fun beyond built computers like the PET. -ethan From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Sun Dec 5 04:57:12 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Veroboard trace cutting tool? Message-ID: Does anyone know where I can locate a genuine tool for severing the traces on veroboard? I know I can make do with a drill bit, but that puts a tapered hole in the resin board underneath. One thing that's cheaper in NZ is, strangely enough, veroboard. The few pieces I found in the States were priced much higher than protoboards used to be at Rat Shack (when you could find them). I occasionally run into a project from a UK experimenter, and have wanted to do their designs without doing 100% point-to-point. I'll probably bring home a couple of panels so I have a chance to do that (for my own stuff, I'll probably always do point-to-point). -ethan From wmaddox at pacbell.net Sun Dec 5 05:03:23 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Interesting book Message-ID: <41B2EAFB.7060309@pacbell.net> I recently picked up an interesting book, entitled "The Logic Desgign of Computers: An Introduction", by M. Paul Chinitz. Mr. Chinitz was Director of Training at Univac from 1953 to 1956, and it shows -- even though this book was published in 1981. Seriously, the design style in the book is straight out of the 50's and 60's. Although the book makes numerous references to standard TTL logic components, he does just about everything with simple gates and RS flip-flops, and devotes space to such dated topics (for a book of its scope) as 1's complement arithmetic, serial arithmetic, and delay lines. Proponents of a straightforward fully-synchronous design style based on MSI, like Winkel, Prosser, and Mano, would be horrified to see students taught to gate clocks in 1981. The book uses a simple 8-bit 1-address architecture as an example, using a multiphase clocking scheme and RS flip-flops with preclear. All a wonderful throwback to the days when every gate and transistor counted. I picked up a copy at a swap meet, misplaced it, ordered another from an internet used bookseller, and then found my original copy. I thus now have an extra copy of this book. It is available for $5 plus shipping if anyone is interested. --Bill From gordon at gjcp.net Sun Dec 5 05:16:25 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 Questions. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41B2EE09.3070208@gjcp.net> Scott Stevens wrote: > 4. What is the console on this hardware? It has the three serial > ports on RJ-type connectors, and from what I gather this is a TTY-only > machine, no framebuffer, etc. I made a connector for my DECStation 3100 by grinding bits off an RJ45 connector until it fitted. Brutal but effective. Prepare to lose a few RJ45s in the process - you'd be better with your own crimping tool and a bag of plugs. Better still would be the proper DEC connector, but I couldn't find any of those. Gordon JC Pearce From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 5 05:26:47 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Veroboard trace cutting tool? In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Veroboard trace cutting tool?" (Dec 5, 5:57) References: Message-ID: <10412051126.ZM5242@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 5 2004, 5:57, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Does anyone know where I can locate a genuine tool for severing the > traces on veroboard? I know I can make do with a drill bit, but that > puts a tapered hole in the resin board underneath. So does the genuine Veroboard cutter. It's just a stub drill mounted in a blue plastic handle, and its only advantage is that it's easier to hold. There's quite a good picture at http://www.zen22142.zen.co.uk/Prac/vero_circ/vero.htm You can probably get one from Farnell in NZ. The part number from the (UK, Farnell-In-One) catalogue is 329-538. It looks similar but not identical in my catalogue to the one in the CPC catalogue, which is interesting because Farnell and CPC are part of the same group and share stock. Same price, though, UKP 6.60 (and the NZ price is NZ$25.94). http://nz.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/searchPage2.jsp?Ntt=spot+face+cutter&newSearch=true&Nto=vero&Nty=1&showImages=true&N=401&Ntk=gensearch Vero Electronics is now a subsidiary of APW: http://www.apw.com/aboutAPW/familiarBrands/vero.jsp -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sun Dec 5 04:38:22 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: "misc pc boards" found Message-ID: <200412051150.GAA25199@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> I was going through various miscellaney and found a box labeled "MISC PC BOARDS". On opening it up, I found a number of boards which may of interest to the list. With one possible exception, they are all up for grabs, on the same conditions as my last pile of stuff: cover shipping and it's yours (including free if you pick it up in Montreal). Except where noted, this is all "no obvious physical damage, but completely untested and has been sitting idle for some unknown number of years, probably at least ten". First, the board I suspect I want to keep - I have some questions about it, if anyone can answer them. It's apparently from an outfit called MICRO WORKS, and is a "2708 EPROM BURNER". It has onboard a 6821, two 7474s, a 7406, a 555, a 7805, a 7904, a 7812, a 3904 transistor, various two-terminal devices (caps, resistors, diodes, a LED), and a switch (apparently SPDT used as SPST) marked "HV OFF" and "HV ON". Oh, and a rather nice 24-pin ZIF DIP socket. It has a card-edge connector that makes it look as though it goes with the SwTPc stuff listed below - its only 30-pin, but has the same pin pitch and blocked pin. Basically, what I want to know is, how much hackery would it take to turn this into something I could attach to, say, a parallel port, and use to burn EPROMs? Next, the stuff that's definitely up for grabs. Of these, to start, four Wang boards: A board in the shape of a rectangle about 20"x13" with a rectangle of about 12"x5" cut out of one corner - or, equivalently, a rectangle of 20"x8" overlapped with a rectangle of 8"x13" (where in all four cases the dimensions are in the same order). On the 12" edge there is a connector that looks physically like a 3U VME connector to my (not very used to VME) eye. On the 8" edge there is a DB25F, what I might call (quite possibly improperly) a DIN-4, and a 36-pin Centronics. At the end of the 20" edge farthest from the 8" edge, there are two 34-pin (17x2) 0.1"-pitch connectors of the sort I learned to call Bergs. According to the solder side, this is an "8221-R2" and bears the Wang name; on the component side, I also see the Wang logo and the markings "8221- -R2M2", where the number 14, or perhaps the letter A, has been hand-written into the gap, and the last 2 is in a different font from the rest. Following that is a box into which has been handwritten J05796. Silkscreened - not part of the foil pattern - I see "CPU/SYSTEM BOARD" and "8221-R1 SILK SCREEN". There is one empty socket, a 40-pin DIP; the other seven sockets are filled. Based on the datecodes I see on the soldered-in chips, this dates from mid-'82. A board which I speculate is a backplane to go with the previous board. It bears no active components, only connectors and resistors. It has a connector physically compatible with the VME-like connector on the above board, five 86-conductor card-edge connectors (43 pins on each side, with approximately S-100 pin spacing), and three connectors that look like power connectors: one each of five, three, and two pins. In the foil patterns on the compoent side, this is marked COMP. SIDE 8241- -R?M and the Wang logo (where ? may actually be intended to be a 0). In the foil on the solder side I see the Wang logo and 8241-R? MADE IN USA CIRCUIT SIDE This baord is about 6"x7". Another Wang board. This one is about 8"x12" and has two card-edge connectors, one physically compatible with the 86-pin connectors on the previous board and one 20-pin one with much narrower spacing on the other edge. It has what appears to be a back-panel connector with a metal shield on the 8" edge (which is not included in the 12" dimension - it adds maybe 5/8") bearing a DA15F connector. This baord is marked "8223- -R?M" on the component side and "8223-R?" on the foil side, and has numerous patches applied in the form of etch run cuts and soldered-on wires. Almost everything is soldered in, but there is one socket, bearing a crystal oscillator marked "19.200 MHZ". Another board which looks very much like 8241 board above which I speculated was a backplane, except that instead of the VMEish connector it has a sixth 86-pin card-edge connector. It is marked as 8229 instead of 8241, but otherwise looks basically identical to the 8241 described above. Three boards which I expect are from an SwTPc. Each bears the SwTPc logo somewhere in the component-side etch. One I feel sure is a CPU board. It bears many DIPs, all socketed (and all sockets populated), a 7805 and four discrete transistors or similar devices soldered in, and miscellanous two-terminal devices (resistors, caps, a crystal, maybe some others I don't recognize). The "big chip" is an MC6800P; I also see an HM46810P, an MC14411P, and a chip labeled with the motorola logo and the text "SWTBUG 1.0" and a "7748" which I imagine is a datecode. Everything else is in the 8- to 20-pin range. On the card edge is a 50-pin single-row connector with slightly over 2.5 pins to the centimetre, with one pin space filled with plastic. A board with 39 empty DIP sockets (mostly 16-pin, at least one 14-pin), no filled sockets, and two 7805s apparently connected in parallel. Next to the SwTPc logo is the text "MP-M". I suspect the 7805s are intended to have heatsinks which the board has been robbed of, probably at the same time as the socketed chips were removed. This has a card-edge connector apparently identical to that on the CPU board (just above). A board which I feel sure is memory. It's marked "MP-8M2" and has a SPDT switch with the positions marked "WRT. PROTECT" and "NORMAL"; next to one row of 8 DIPs is "UPPER 4K" and next to another is "LOWER 4K". It also has two 7805s, each driving power to some of the chips - their outputs aren't wired together. There is also a DIP bank of four switches. Finally, two miscellaneous boards. One I suspect of being an S-100 prototyping board. It has a 7805 and numerous power decoupling caps, a lot of uncomitted solder pads, and a 100-pin card-edge connector that looks like S-100 to my inexperienced eye. It is silk-screen labeled "CROMEMCO WRAP BOARD" on the component side and "CROMEMCO WWB-2" on the solder side. The other is a mystery to me. It looks like a module from a very early modular computer of some sort. It dates from the very early IC days, I would say - the days when an IC package would contain maybe five to ten transistors and not much else. It bears a logo that consists of the letters A and M, stacked with the A over the M, inside an octagon whose vertices are at (cos(k*pi/4),sin(k*pi/4)) - ie, turned 22.5? relative to stop-sign orientation. It has been robbed of one component, a transistor to go by the labeling ("Q5" on the component side), but I think everything else is present. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Sun Dec 5 05:55:00 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Veroboard trace cutting tool? In-Reply-To: <10412051126.ZM5242@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10412051126.ZM5242@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 11:26:47 GMT, Pete Turnbull wrote: > So does the genuine Veroboard cutter. It's just a stub drill mounted > in a blue plastic handle, and its only advantage is that it's easier to > hold. There's quite a good picture at > http://www.zen22142.zen.co.uk/Prac/vero_circ/vero.htm Ah... I was under the impression that the cutting edge had a substantially different angle fro a drill (like describing a 180 degree arc between the cutting surfaces rather than, say, 150 degrees). I guess this picture... http://www.zen22142.zen.co.uk/Prac/vero_circ/8.jpg ... really shows the divot one gets from the real tool. I might just have to just use the drill press for this task (taking advantage of the stop to keep from drilling _though_ the resin board ;-) The tool looks handy for more than a few cuts, though. I wouldn't want to try just holding a bit bare-handed - lots of hand cramps and slips probably. > You can probably get one from Farnell in NZ. The part number from the > (UK, Farnell-In-One) catalogue is 329-538. It looks similar but not > identical in my catalogue to the one in the CPC catalogue, which is > interesting because Farnell and CPC are part of the same group and > share stock. Same price, though, UKP 6.60 (and the NZ price is > NZ$25.94). Oy! The NZ price is a lot more than a blank vero board... and so is the UK price! (for boards in NZ, not the US). Thanks for the website tip... nice pix. -ethan From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 5 05:43:22 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 Questions. In-Reply-To: Gordon JC Pearce "Re: MicroVAX 3100 Questions." (Dec 5, 11:16) References: <41B2EE09.3070208@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <10412051143.ZM5254@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 5 2004, 11:16, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > Scott Stevens wrote: > > 4. What is the console on this hardware? It has the three serial > > ports on RJ-type connectors, and from what I gather this is a TTY-only > > machine, no framebuffer, etc. > > I made a connector for my DECStation 3100 by grinding bits off an RJ45 > connector until it fitted. Brutal but effective. Prepare to lose a few > RJ45s in the process - you'd be better with your own crimping tool and a > bag of plugs. > > Better still would be the proper DEC connector, but I couldn't find any > of those. You can still get them from Farnell in the UK (and presumably in the States etc) and CPC in the UK. Since I'm sitting here with the Farnell cat open for Ethan, I looked them up. Stewart P/No 937-SP-3066R-OST for stranded round cable is Farnell 429-788 Stewart P/No 937-SP-3066-OST for stranded flat/oval cable is Farnell 429-790 Stewart P/No 940-SP-3066R-OST for solid round cable is Farnell 429-843 Stewart P/No 940-SP-3066-OST for solid flat/oval cable is Farnell 429-855 The catalogue numbers are for packs of ten, and they cost UKP4 or so per pack (quite expensive nowadays). Of course, the real problem is getting the crimp tool. MMJ tools tend to be expensive, although if you have one of those multipurpose crimping pliers with interchangeable dies for blue/red/yellow insulated connectors, BNCs, RJ45, RJ11, etc you can get MMJ dies for about UKP12. Better than hacking RJ45s would be to hack RJ11 (6P/6C) plugs. They're very common, about a quarter of the price of MMJs, and there are low-cost crimp tools available. For anyone in the UK who needs *a few*, I believe I still have a box of adapter cables for Emulex terminal servers. These are short (about 8-10 inches) flat cables with an MMJ on one end and an RJ45 on the other. You can have a few for the cost of postage. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sun Dec 5 05:56:52 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: "misc pc boards" found In-Reply-To: <200412051150.GAA25199@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200412051150.GAA25199@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <200412051158.GAA25265@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> I just wrote > I was going through various miscellaney and found a box labeled > "MISC PC BOARDS". On opening it up, I found [...] One thing I forgot to mention: I also found a wiring harness apparently intended to go with the boards I think are the Wang backplanes. It has connectors that mechanically fit the connectors on those boards. It also has a 5-pin and an 8-pin connector presumably intended to plug into a power supply, and two 4-pin connectors of the sort nearly universally used for disk drives. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Sun Dec 5 06:00:30 2004 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Veroboard trace cutting tool? References: Message-ID: <0c4001c4dac2$045dc020$7900a8c0@athlon1200> Ethan RS (RadioSpares) Stock No. 543-535- $NZ19.50. I've been meaning to get another one myself although I've tended to use 'blob' board more often these days. DaveB, Christchurch, NZ PS - Have you been investigating Smiths Bookshop? Not been the same since change of owners a couple of years back. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 11:57 PM Subject: Veroboard trace cutting tool? > Does anyone know where I can locate a genuine tool for severing the > traces on veroboard? I know I can make do with a drill bit, but > that > puts a tapered hole in the resin board underneath. > > One thing that's cheaper in NZ is, strangely enough, veroboard. The > few pieces I found in the States were priced much higher than > protoboards used to be at Rat Shack (when you could find them). I > occasionally run into a project from a UK experimenter, and have > wanted to do their designs without doing 100% point-to-point. I'll > probably bring home a couple of panels so I have a chance to do that > (for my own stuff, I'll probably always do point-to-point). > > -ethan > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.5 - Release Date: 3/12/2004 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.5 - Release Date: 3/12/2004 From james at jdfogg.com Sun Dec 5 06:16:56 2004 From: james at jdfogg.com (james) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: IBM 3270 interfacing? In-Reply-To: <16818.10373.98246.126520@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <1100340833.24579.89.camel@fortran> <1100343546.1439.1.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> <16818.10373.98246.126520@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <1102249016.7367.1.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> On Sat, 2004-12-04 at 16:13, Paul Koning wrote: > >>>>> "Bj??rn" == Bj??rn writes: > > Bj??rn> IBM 3270 used the EBCDIC control codes for their documented > Bj??rn> purpose. HP 2645 terminals had an option to run multidropped > Bj??rn> using an almost identical protocol. This protocol is half > Bj??rn> duplex. > > That brings back some nightmares... the ugliest protocol by far I ever > worked on was the one used by Harris 2200 newspaper display editing > terminals. Bisync, half duplex, multidrop, using a PDP-11 DL11-E > async line at the host end. Bletch. Naturally, the driver would mess > up only during the midnight to 6 am shift... and I got to debug it > while the composing room foreman was waiting for things to be put back > into working order. The simplest protocol has to be Burroughs Standard Poll Select. Imagine daisy-chained RS232 and a polling sync or async protcol using ascii control characters/words. I did lots of conversions to frame relay using Motorola routers with Poll Select. From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Sun Dec 5 06:19:35 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Veroboard trace cutting tool? In-Reply-To: <0c4001c4dac2$045dc020$7900a8c0@athlon1200> References: <0c4001c4dac2$045dc020$7900a8c0@athlon1200> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 01:00:30 +1300, Dave Brown wrote: > Ethan > RS (RadioSpares) Stock No. 543-535- $NZ19.50. I've been meaning to get > another one myself although I've tended to use 'blob' board more often > these days. RS? I've heard it referenced on the list... is that the name of a particular brand of shop? > DaveB, Christchurch, NZ > > PS - Have you been investigating Smiths Bookshop? Not been the same > since change of owners a couple of years back. Not yet, but good guess... I was at a different place, forget the name, but for some reason the address stuck - 145 Manchester St (stuck, I suspect, because someone else here asked me if I went to Smith's) -ethan From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 5 06:15:04 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Veroboard trace cutting tool? In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Re: Veroboard trace cutting tool?" (Dec 5, 6:55) References: <10412051126.ZM5242@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <10412051215.ZM5345@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 5 2004, 6:55, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I guess this picture... > > http://www.zen22142.zen.co.uk/Prac/vero_circ/8.jpg > > ... really shows the divot one gets from the real tool. Yup, that's typical. > The tool looks handy for more than a few cuts, though. I wouldn't > want to try just holding a bit bare-handed - lots of hand cramps and > slips probably. Exactly. Given the cost of the genuine tool, I use a pin vice (of which I have several) to hold the drill bit. However, if I want it to look neater (I meant to mention this in my previous message) -- though goodness knows who would care -- I have been known to use a scalpel or craft knife to cut the copper either side of a hole and then lift off the small redundant piece. I've also done that between holes, when I wanted to use two adjacent holes but isolated from each other. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From bert at brothom.nl Sun Dec 5 06:29:07 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Veroboard trace cutting tool? References: <10412051126.ZM5242@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <41B2FF13.CBDA820A@brothom.nl> Ethan Dicks wrote: > Ah... I was under the impression that the cutting edge had a > substantially different angle fro a drill (like describing a 180 > degree arc between the cutting surfaces rather than, say, 150 > degrees). My tip: - using a sharp knife, cut two cuts in the trace - use the soldering iron to heat and remove the small fraction of copper between the two cuts Advantage #1: you don't need to buy anything Advantage #2: it hardly damages the ressin Advantage #3: you can even remove the connection between two pads Advantage #4: You can make arbitrarly large areas blank; could be usefull for isolation areas Believe me, this works. Even on epoxy, but just as well on pertinax. Bert From james at jdfogg.com Sun Dec 5 06:31:41 2004 From: james at jdfogg.com (james) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Removing adhesives, was Re: Reel-to-reel tape decks (was: Re: ZX81 denigrated!) In-Reply-To: <41B1AA2A.8090703@pacbell.net> References: <41B1AA2A.8090703@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <1102249901.7367.13.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> On Sat, 2004-12-04 at 07:14, William Maddox wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: > > > Lighter fluid is often a good solvent for removing adhesive residue... > > By far the best stuff I've ever used is "Goo-Gone", a citrus-solvent/ > petroleum-solvent blend. Perhaps it (or an equivalent) is sold in the > UK. I've also used Goo-Gone for cleaning ink from plastic surfaces. > It is a bit harsher than isopropanol, but take off some marks that > isopropanol will not, and doesn't visibly affect opaque plastics (or > most transparent ones for that matter). I've found that nearly any non-hardening adhesive will release with heat. I've removed lots of labels with a hair dryer. Once the adhesive is soft enough it will usually "follow" the more absorbtive material (the paper of the lable) rather than stay on the harder surface. Meaning it mostly comes off with the label rather than leaving glop on your article. You have to get the underlying surface hot enough so that when you remove the heat the label won't quickly re-stick as heat is pulled into the surface. If it's metal and I can get behind it I will leave the hair dryer (or a gas torch for large metal panels) on from behind as I slowly pull the sticker. If any residue is left it should be small (like around the perimeter and if you get it with a solvent while still hot it should clean easily. Before someone sues me for bodily injury please note that some solvents will break down into incredibly toxic aromatic compounds in the presence of heat (like phosgene). Printing press blanket cleaner (a fantastic solvent for stickers) will do this. This trick I learned from an autobody shop and their efforts to remove bumper stickers with gas torches. From bert at brothom.nl Sun Dec 5 06:31:30 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Veroboard trace cutting tool? References: <10412051126.ZM5242@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <10412051215.ZM5345@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <41B2FFA2.1B72174A@brothom.nl> > However, if I want it to look neater (I meant to mention this in my > previous message) -- though goodness knows who would care -- I have > been known to use a scalpel or craft knife to cut the copper either > side of a hole and then lift off the small redundant piece. I've also > done that between holes, when I wanted to use two adjacent holes but > isolated from each other. Aaarggghhh, ... ;-) From damosan at comcast.net Sun Dec 5 06:39:18 2004 From: damosan at comcast.net (Damond Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Significant finds In-Reply-To: <000701c4d5bd$b1421610$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Message-ID: On Sunday, November 28, 2004, at 09:46 PM, Richard A. Cini wrote: > > > Back to the Micro Cornucopia. I've heard of the name, but what was > the focus of it? > > One of the, if not the best, computer hobby mag of all time. Damo From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 5 06:48:24 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Veroboard trace cutting tool? In-Reply-To: Bert Thomas "Re: Veroboard trace cutting tool?" (Dec 5, 13:31) References: <10412051126.ZM5242@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <10412051215.ZM5345@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <41B2FFA2.1B72174A@brothom.nl> Message-ID: <10412051248.ZM5433@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 5 2004, 13:31, Bert Thomas wrote: > > However, if I want it to look neater (I meant to mention this in my > > previous message) -- though goodness knows who would care -- I have > > been known to use a scalpel or craft knife to cut the copper either > > side of a hole and then lift off the small redundant piece. I've also > > done that between holes, when I wanted to use two adjacent holes but > > isolated from each other. > > Aaarggghhh, ... ;-) Why "undo"? Great minds obviously think alike, and two posts just reinforce the value of the advice :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 5 06:43:57 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Veroboard trace cutting tool? In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Re: Veroboard trace cutting tool?" (Dec 5, 7:19) References: <0c4001c4dac2$045dc020$7900a8c0@athlon1200> Message-ID: <10412051243.ZM5403@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 5 2004, 7:19, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 01:00:30 +1300, Dave Brown wrote: > > Ethan > > RS (RadioSpares) Stock No. 543-535- $NZ19.50. I've been meaning to get > > another one myself although I've tended to use 'blob' board more often > > these days. > > RS? I've heard it referenced on the list... is that the name of a > particular brand of shop? Used to stand for Radio Spares, later Radiospares, RS Components. A phone/mail-order trade supplier, originally specialising in parts for radios and TVs, but now selling everything from resistors to car park furniture. They had a separate sell-to-the-public offshoot called Electromail for a while, but now RS will take almost anyone's money (I think you might need to open an account, though). Lots of electronics shops will order RS parts for you. Their paper catalogue is 1cm wider than Farnell's (16cm as opposed to 15cm). http://rswww.com -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From james at jdfogg.com Sun Dec 5 06:58:19 2004 From: james at jdfogg.com (james) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Removing adhesives, was Re: Reel-to-reel tape decks (was: Re: ZX81 denigrated!) In-Reply-To: <1102249901.7367.13.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> References: <41B1AA2A.8090703@pacbell.net> <1102249901.7367.13.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> Message-ID: <1102251499.7367.28.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> > of heat (like phosgene). Printing press blanket cleaner (a fantastic > solvent for stickers) will do this. oops. quick disclaimer - blanket cleaner will also dissolve some plastics quicly. Others it might take the shine off. I only use it on metal. From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Sat Dec 4 22:30:07 2004 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Dragon32 Power-Supply In-Reply-To: <20041123034814.WNGI12981.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> from "Dave Dunfield" at Nov 22, 2004 10:48:15 PM Message-ID: <200412050430.iB54U7BV027195@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> >Can anyone give me the pinout and details of the power >supply used on the Dragon32 (have a machine with no >supply) - It has a 9-pin 'D' connector on the back of >the machine for the power input! > >Searched and found some hardware info, but not the power >information... > >Regards, >Dave Hi Dave, here's the info directly off of my power supply: P/N: TD64-1 INPUT: 115V 60HZ 28W OUTPUT: 8VAC~1.5A 28VAC~0.25A CT I don't have a pinout, but looking at it briefly the left bottom ones are empty: ________ \OOOOOO/ \00OO/ Another option is this company which is still selling new Dragon 32's (complete with power supply) for $35! http://www.cadigital.com/computer.htm Marty From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Sat Dec 4 22:33:58 2004 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Dragon32 Power-Supply In-Reply-To: <41A39591.4040600@gifford.co.uk> from "John Honniball" at Nov 23, 2004 07:54:57 PM Message-ID: <200412050433.iB54XxeD022903@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> >Dave Dunfield wrote: >> Can anyone give me the pinout and details of the power >> supply used on the Dragon32 (have a machine with no >> supply) - It has a 9-pin 'D' connector on the back of >> the machine for the power input! > >OK, I've just got my machine down from the loft and had a look >for the manual -- but I don't have a manual! So, time to test >it with a meter... > >Pin 1 joined to Pin 6, one side of 8.5V AC Red >Pin 2 joined to Pin 7, other side of 8.5V AC Black >Pin 3 14V AC Yellow >Pin 4 0V White >Pin 5 14V AC Blue > >The two 14V AC windings form a centre-tapped 28V winding, which >according to the label on the transformer is rated at 250mA. The >8.5V winding is rated 1.5A. The actual voltages I measured were >8.9V and 14.3V (twice), so they're slightly higher off-load. The >9-pin 'D' connector on the end of the PSU cable is a female. The >PSU itself is clearly just a transformer in a white plastic box. > >-- >John Honniball >coredump@gifford.co.uk > John, being that Dave is in Canada I think the PSU would be different for the version we got over here in the states (which was manufactured by Tano). My box is black by the way. ;) Marty From obsiprog at gmail.com Sat Dec 4 23:35:06 2004 From: obsiprog at gmail.com (Daniel Collotte) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: "How to build a working digital computer" Book scans Message-ID: <4a6fb074041204213534b237e7@mail.gmail.com> Dear Sir, Hello, i recently saw an online post of an email list you signed up for, and was wondering if you could send me scans of the book, "How to build a working digital computer", images are fine, but a pdf file would be awesome! i really would like to reconstruct my very own paperclip computer, so i hope you will help, Thank you, Daniel Collotte From trixter at oldskool.org Sun Dec 5 00:10:41 2004 From: trixter at oldskool.org (Jim Leonard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41B2A661.1060108@oldskool.org> I learned VI before I even knew what VI was thanks to Hack, the port done by Don Kneller in 1985. I was about 14 at the time and to this day I consider it my favorite game of all time. I can email it to you if you like, I just played it last month on my IBM Model 5150 :-) Ron Hudson wrote: > > anyone have the DOS version of Empire, Nethack (an older version that > does not need dpmi), > I had a DOS version of tetris too (using regular characters in 40 char > mode) so I am looking > for that too. > > Any websites that provide old DOS programs for download? > > Thanks! -- Jim Leonard (trixter@oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Sun Dec 5 09:11:26 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs In-Reply-To: <41B2A661.1060108@oldskool.org> References: <41B2A661.1060108@oldskool.org> Message-ID: On Dec 4, 2004, at 10:10 PM, Jim Leonard wrote: > I learned VI before I even knew what VI was thanks to Hack, the port > done by Don Kneller in 1985. I was about 14 at the time and to this > day I consider it my favorite game of all time. I can email it to you > if you like, I just played it last month on my IBM Model 5150 :-) Thanks! I have found a copy of nethack that works, and It's pretty recent too. Is there some difference between DOS 6.20 and DOS 6.22 with regard to COFF files? If it would be easy to email it, please do, even though I have the one an older version may be interesting. Has anyone seen this: it was a 40x25 character based dungeon crawl type game, a lot like Gauntlet. Your icon was a happyface with a <^>v to indicate direction. 4 players each get a set of keys (4 people crowded around 1 keyboard). I don't think it was called gauntlet... I had a copy once upon a time... I suppose I will have to write it :^) my self. > > Ron Hudson wrote: > >> anyone have the DOS version of Empire, Nethack (an older version that >> does not need dpmi), >> I had a DOS version of tetris too (using regular characters in 40 >> char mode) so I am looking >> for that too. >> Any websites that provide old DOS programs for download? >> Thanks! > > -- > Jim Leonard (trixter@oldskool.org) > http://www.oldskool.org/ > Want to help an ambitious games project? > http://www.mobygames.com/ > Or check out some trippy MindCandy at > http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ > From chenmel at earthlink.net Sun Dec 5 10:10:44 2004 From: chenmel at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Looking for a place to get small(-ish) SCSI drives In-Reply-To: <20041205093921.GB3104@loomcom.com> References: <20041205093921.GB3104@loomcom.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 01:39:21 -0800, you wrote: > >I fool around with a lot of systems that want small (by today's >standards) 50-pin SCSI drives. A few years ago you couldn't walk >around the streets of Palo Alto without tripping over big stacks of >500MB drives. These days, though, the stacks are made out of 9GB SCA >drives -- far too large for my needs, and often far too large to be >recognized by the computers I fool around with. But drives smaller >than that are suddenly "rare" and "expensive", $30 or $40 for any >SCSI drive under 9GB at a lot of resellers I've visited lately. > >Anyone know where those stacks went? Are small drives just impossible >to come by for less than $30 now? > >-Seth I still find a lot of smallish 50-pin SCSI drives in old educational Macintoshes. And there are quite a number of them still in the process of being retired, it seems. The late 'all in one' 68K macs, meaning from the 'LC' line, generally had a 250 or 500 MB 50 pin drive in them. Usually when I see them at auction they can be purchased for $1-5 for as many as there happen to be at said auction. Also a good source for Apple SCSI CDROM drives. These Macs are plentiful still at school surplus auctions, and one or two is all you need if you collect them. (I remember when we were all saying that about the IBM XT, of course- try to find a good IBM XT anywhere these days.) -Scott From vcf at siconic.com Sun Dec 5 11:04:26 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Removing adhesives, was Re: Reel-to-reel tape decks (was: Re: ZX81 denigrated!) In-Reply-To: <41B26C71.4040503@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Dec 2004, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Are you confusing Goo Gone, with Goof Off? I've never had Goo Gone > damage plastic. Probably. I was assuming they were of similar composition, but now that I think about it, Goof Off is based on naptha and is much more caustic. Goo Gone, being citrus-based, will probably not cause any harm to the underlying plastic. Goof Off, while just as effective if not more so than Goo Gone, will (if not used properly). It also needs to be used in a well-ventilated area, and the fumes linger for hours. The nice thing about Goof Off, if used properly, is that it can remove any sort of petroleum-based substance. I used it to remove splatter paint from a bunch of shelving. The shelving itself was painted with a hard enamel protective coat. If we didn't rub too hard, the splatter paint came off and left the original paint alone. If we were too vigourous, it dulled the finish of the shelving a little bit, but that's all. So Goo Gone != Goof Off. Sorry for confusing the issue :( -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From acme at gbronline.com Sun Dec 5 11:10:25 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: FYI: identity theft References: <001001c4d257$7f32f450$5b01a8c0@flexpc><3.0.6.32.20041123215946.00a5b9f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><001001c4d257$7f32f450$5b01a8c0@flexpc><3.0.6.32.20041124223236.009d3ea0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <018f01c4d59b$4033cbc0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <00bd01c4daed$50770c20$914f0945@acme> ----- Original Message ----- From: John Allain > Basically I'm just backing up the adage to not respond to eMailed account > change requests, ever, probably. Me too ;-) My wife recently receved a phisher purporting to be from Capital One concerning a credit card. She called Capital One and they informed her that it was a legitimate request, and that she should respond to the email message and provide the requested information. Two days later, Romanian scamsters began using her account for cash advances. Fortunately, she had kept all of the contact information for the person at Capital One who told her to answer the email, so all of the charges have been rescinded, but it has been a time-consuming, worrisome hassle. Later -- Glen 0/0 From acme at gbronline.com Sun Dec 5 11:29:15 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: ZX81 video mod and bus extention cable References: <031c01c4d4c7$fa6dd960$164f0945@acme> <4584.192.168.0.7.1101650144.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> <01b901c4d59f$74f5d200$fa4f0945@acme> <41AD31F4.5050402@jbrain.com> Message-ID: <015601c4daef$f5080940$914f0945@acme> Hello Jim -- I have a scan of the video circuit mod for composite output -- if you want it, contact me offlist and I'll email it to you. As far as a bus extention cable, I use old 50-conductor SCSI cables. For the cable ends, my junk box is full of suitable scraps, but if yours isn't, you can use the connector from a dead 16KB RAM pack for one end, and any surplus place should have an appropriate piece for the opposite end, which can be cut down to size and key-notched. Later -- Glen 0/0 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Brain To: Glen Goodwin ; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 9:52 PM Subject: Re: ZX81 denigrated! (was Re: Approaches to projects) > Glen Goodwin wrote: > > >One transistor + one resistor + one monitor = rock solid display. > > > > > Any links? A dormant unit sits on the shelf. > > >Scraps from the junk box and 30 minutes time will yield a cable which > >provides enough distance from the ZX81 to eliminate the "wobble" > >problem. > > > > > Again, links? > > Jim > > -- > Jim Brain, Brain Innovations > brain@jbrain.com http://www.jbrain.com > Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, Old CBM computers, and Good Times! > > From cb at mythtech.net Sun Dec 5 11:31:24 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Looking for a place to get small(-ish) SCSI drives Message-ID: >Anyone know where those stacks went? Probably the same place my stack went... the dumpster after I was unsuccessful for months in giving them away. I probably tossed 50+ drives in the range of 40-500 MB. All mine would have been pulled from old Macs. I would suggest you look for those to get the drives. You should be able to find 68k macs for free or darn near it. Another place to look is the LowEndMac Swap list. You can probably put out a request for small drives and get more than you would want for little money (lowendmac.com check the email lists) -chris From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun Dec 5 12:01:29 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 Questions. In-Reply-To: <10412051143.ZM5254@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <41B2EE09.3070208@gjcp.net> <10412051143.ZM5254@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200412051301.30056.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Sunday 05 December 2004 06:43, Pete Turnbull wrote: > Better than hacking RJ45s would be to hack RJ11 (6P/6C) plugs. > They're very common, about a quarter of the price of MMJs, and there > are low-cost crimp tools available. Agreed, the only difference between an RJ12/RJ11 and MMJ is the tab location, which can be easily sliced off (though that usually makes for a loose fitting connector). > For anyone in the UK who needs *a few*, I believe I still have a box > of adapter cables for Emulex terminal servers. These are short > (about 8-10 inches) flat cables with an MMJ on one end and an RJ45 on > the other. You can have a few for the cost of postage. And if anyone in the US wants one, I can do up to, say, 25ft MMJ->MMJ or MMJ->RJ(12/45) cables for $5 + shipping. I had a few takers last time I did this, and they seemed to be happy with my handiwork. : ) Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From marvin at rain.org Sun Dec 5 12:06:22 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Project finishing, was Re: Veroboard trace cutting tool? Message-ID: <41B34E1E.4B26208C@rain.org> Something that I have started using to help give projects a more "professional" look is clear adhesive label stock for the case/cover. It is trivial these days to do a layout on a computer, so just take that layout and print it on the adhesive label stock. It is a lot less expensive that silkscreening! If the layout needs protection, just add another layer of clear adhesive label stock over it. I've had some trouble finding the label stock locally, but the local Kinko's (a copying service store in the US) does carry it. I use a sharp X-Acto knife to cut out the holes after the label has been put into place. http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/ provides the software to do somewhat inexpensive front panels including holes, slots, and engraving. The front panels can be ordered online from their software. I've also used their software to do the layouts for the label stock printing out using "wiremode". > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > Ah... I was under the impression that the cutting edge had a > > substantially different angle fro a drill (like describing a 180 > > degree arc between the cutting surfaces rather than, say, 150 > > degrees). > > My tip: > > - using a sharp knife, cut two cuts in the trace > - use the soldering iron to heat and remove the small fraction of copper > between the two cuts > > Advantage #1: you don't need to buy anything > Advantage #2: it hardly damages the ressin > Advantage #3: you can even remove the connection between two pads > Advantage #4: You can make arbitrarly large areas blank; could be > usefull for isolation areas > > Believe me, this works. Even on epoxy, but just as well on pertinax. > > Bert From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Dec 5 12:18:12 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Interesting book References: <41B2EAFB.7060309@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <41B350E4.1040108@jetnet.ab.ca> William Maddox wrote: > I recently picked up an interesting book, entitled "The Logic Desgign of > Computers: An Introduction", by M. Paul Chinitz. Mr. Chinitz was > Director of Training at Univac from 1953 to 1956, and it shows -- even > though this book was published in 1981. Seriously, the design style in > the book is straight out of the 50's and 60's. Although the book makes > numerous references to standard TTL logic components, he does just about > everything with simple gates and RS flip-flops, and devotes space to > such dated topics (for a book of its scope) as 1's complement > arithmetic, serial arithmetic, and delay lines. Proponents of a > straightforward fully-synchronous design style based on MSI, like > Winkel, Prosser, and Mano, would be horrified to see students taught to > gate clocks in 1981. The book uses a simple 8-bit 1-address > architecture as an example, using a multiphase clocking scheme and RS > flip-flops with preclear. All a wonderful throwback to the days when > every gate and transistor counted. > > I picked up a copy at a swap meet, misplaced it, ordered another from an > internet used bookseller, and then found my original copy. I thus now > have an extra copy of this book. It is available for $5 plus shipping if > anyone is interested. > > --Bill I'll take a copy of the book, but do you have anything else for sale so I can get all shipped in the same order. PS. I will take some 74F382's on second thought, since they have the ripple carry and ovrflow bits. I thinking about 14 pieces. Ben. From marvin at rain.org Sun Dec 5 12:25:33 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Looking for a place to get small(-ish) SCSI drives Message-ID: <41B3529D.D8FEB8DF@rain.org> How small is "small"? I have a dozen or so 100 MB IBM SCSI HDs that were pulled for an upgrade ... many years ago :). > I fool around with a lot of systems that want small (by today's > standards) 50-pin SCSI drives. A few years ago you couldn't walk > around the streets of Palo Alto without tripping over big stacks of > 500MB drives. These days, though, the stacks are made out of 9GB SCA > drives -- far too large for my needs, and often far too large to be > recognized by the computers I fool around with. But drives smaller > than that are suddenly "rare" and "expensive", $30 or $40 for any > SCSI drive under 9GB at a lot of resellers I've visited lately. > > Anyone know where those stacks went? Are small drives just impossible > to come by for less than $30 now? > > -Seth From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Dec 5 12:50:24 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Project finishing, was Re: Veroboard trace cutting tool? In-Reply-To: <41B34E1E.4B26208C@rain.org> References: <41B34E1E.4B26208C@rain.org> Message-ID: <07f6a7184d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <41B34E1E.4B26208C@rain.org> Marvin Johnston wrote: > Something that I have started using to help give projects a more > "professional" look is clear adhesive label stock for the case/cover. [ snippety snip ] I personally use inkjet transparencies. Print a mirrored version of the layout onto the back (matted) side of the transparency. Spray the transparency (or the case if there's a square display cutout) with 3M PhotoMount adhesive, wait 15 seconds (IIRC), then stick the transparency to the panel. Cut off any excess plastic and you're done. As far as drilling is concerned, use the non-permanent version of Photomount (can't remember what it's called, though) to stick a paper template to the metalwork. Drill in the usual way, using the template as a guide. Remove the template (it should peel off), then use either isopropyl alcohol (aka isopropanol, propan-2-ol) or Goo-Gone (haven't tried that - IPA usually works quite well) to remove the glue residue. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... High voltage can give a dangerously uncomfortable discharge. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 5 13:10:51 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Project finishing, was Re: Veroboard trace cutting tool? In-Reply-To: Philip Pemberton "Re: Project finishing, was Re: Veroboard trace cutting tool?" (Dec 5, 18:50) References: <41B34E1E.4B26208C@rain.org> <07f6a7184d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <10412051910.ZM6157@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 5 2004, 18:50, Philip Pemberton wrote: > In message <41B34E1E.4B26208C@rain.org> > Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > Something that I have started using to help give projects a more > > "professional" look is clear adhesive label stock for the case/cover. > > [ snippety snip ] > > I personally use inkjet transparencies. Print a mirrored version of the > layout onto the back (matted) side of the transparency. Spray the > transparency (or the case if there's a square display cutout) with 3M > PhotoMount adhesive, wait 15 seconds (IIRC), then stick the transparency to > the panel. Cut off any excess plastic and you're done. Exactly what I did when I made spare unit plugs for an RL02, several years ago (except I used laser transparencies). > As far as drilling is concerned, use the non-permanent version of Photomount > (can't remember what it's called, though) Spraymount. And the really strong stuff is called Hobbymount. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pkoning at equallogic.com Sun Dec 5 13:17:35 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:10 2005 Subject: Veroboard trace cutting tool? References: Message-ID: <16819.24271.303000.407738@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ethan" == Ethan Dicks writes: Ethan> Does anyone know where I can locate a genuine tool for Ethan> severing the traces on veroboard? I know I can make do with a Ethan> drill bit, but that puts a tapered hole in the resin board Ethan> underneath. Metalworking tool catalogs should list counterbore drills -- that should serve if you can't find the original tool. A counterbore is a device vaguely like a drill, except the tip "angle" is 180 degrees, and there's a pin in the middle to guide it. You use it to counterbore holes to take screws that have flat bottoms, not conical ones. paul From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Sun Dec 5 13:44:20 2004 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Veroboard trace cutting tool? References: <16819.24271.303000.407738@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <0d8701c4db02$d088cba0$7900a8c0@athlon1200> Sounds like the one I used to have - I always thought it was a genuine VERO tool but maybe not. DaveB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Koning" To: ; Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 8:17 AM Subject: Re: Veroboard trace cutting tool? >>>>>> "Ethan" == Ethan Dicks writes: > > Ethan> Does anyone know where I can locate a genuine tool for > Ethan> severing the traces on veroboard? I know I can make do with > a > Ethan> drill bit, but that puts a tapered hole in the resin board > Ethan> underneath. > > Metalworking tool catalogs should list counterbore drills -- that > should serve if you can't find the original tool. A counterbore is > a > device vaguely like a drill, except the tip "angle" is 180 degrees, > and there's a pin in the middle to guide it. You use it to > counterbore holes to take screws that have flat bottoms, not conical > ones. > > paul > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.5 - Release Date: 3/12/2004 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.5 - Release Date: 3/12/2004 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 5 12:23:00 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Dragon32 Power-Supply In-Reply-To: <200412050433.iB54XxeD022903@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> from "Martin Scott Goldberg" at Dec 4, 4 10:33:58 pm Message-ID: > John, being that Dave is in Canada I think the PSU would be different for > the version we got over here in the states (which was manufactured by > Tano). My box is black by the way. ;) Well, the input voltage would be differnt (the UK model would be wound for 240V input, the US model for 115V), but is there any reason why the output voltages wouldn't be the same for all models of Dragon? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 5 12:37:46 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Veroboard trace cutting tool? In-Reply-To: <10412051215.ZM5345@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Dec 5, 4 12:15:04 pm Message-ID: > However, if I want it to look neater (I meant to mention this in my > previous message) -- though goodness knows who would care -- I have > been known to use a scalpel or craft knife to cut the copper either > side of a hole and then lift off the small redundant piece. I've also > done that between holes, when I wanted to use two adjacent holes but > isolated from each other. If I want to mount a 2-row 0.1" header on veroboard/stripboard (something I do quite often :-)), I cut down the moddle of each row of holes with a sharp knife, and remove the little (0.1" wide approx) bits of track with a hot soldering iron -- they come off very easily. Then I fit the connector and solder the pins to the 'half holes' that are left. Never had a problem doing this. And like you, to cut the traces I use a 3.5mm drill bit in a pin vice. The latter is a much under-rated tool in my opinion, I'm always using one of mine for something. -tony From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Dec 5 13:46:32 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Removing adhesives, was Re: Reel-to-reel tape decks (was: Re: ZX81 denigrated!) In-Reply-To: <41B26C71.4040503@internet1.net> References: <41B26C71.4040503@internet1.net> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041205133948.05a96b50@pc> At 08:03 PM 12/4/2004, Chad Fernandez wrote: >Are you confusing Goo Gone, with Goof Off? I've never had Goo Gone damage plastic. Goo Gone comes in a plastic bottle, Goof Off is more harsh and comes in a can. As did "lighter fluid", it's naptha cousin. At 06:31 AM 12/5/2004, james wrote: >This trick I learned from an autobody shop and their efforts to remove >bumper stickers with gas torches. Uhm, you mean back in the days when bumpers were made of metal, not plastic. - John From swtpc6800 at comcast.net Sun Dec 5 13:59:08 2004 From: swtpc6800 at comcast.net (Michael Holley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: : "misc pc boards" found References: <200412051800.iB5I0Hjg011867@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000a01c4db04$e1cee000$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> der Mouse, Here is the information on the The Micro Works B-08 2708 EPROM Programmer. http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/MicroWorks/B09_Index.htm Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Dec 5 14:05:37 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Veroboard trace cutting tool? In-Reply-To: <16819.24271.303000.407738@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041205150537.007c23a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:17 PM 12/5/04 -0500, you wrote: >>>>>> "Ethan" == Ethan Dicks writes: > > Ethan> Does anyone know where I can locate a genuine tool for > Ethan> severing the traces on veroboard? I know I can make do with a > Ethan> drill bit, but that puts a tapered hole in the resin board > Ethan> underneath. Why not just get a end mill as used in milling machines? They come in a wide variety of sizes and are readily available. They're made in two flute and four flute types and the bottom is flat. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Dec 5 14:18:41 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Removing adhesives, was Re: Reel-to-reel tape decks (was: Re: ZX81 denigrated!) In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041205133948.05a96b50@pc> References: <41B26C71.4040503@internet1.net> <41B26C71.4040503@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041205151841.007c9ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:46 PM 12/5/04 -0600, you wrote: >At 08:03 PM 12/4/2004, Chad Fernandez wrote: >>Are you confusing Goo Gone, with Goof Off? I've never had Goo Gone damage plastic. > >Goo Gone comes in a plastic bottle, Goof Off is more harsh >and comes in a can. As did "lighter fluid", it's naptha cousin. > >At 06:31 AM 12/5/2004, james wrote: >>This trick I learned from an autobody shop and their efforts to remove >>bumper stickers with gas torches. Ha! One trick that I learned when I worked in a body shop was to take a dented or scratched bumper, fill in the dent with body puddy and then cover the damage with a larg ebumper sticker! Lots cheaper than a new or rechromed bumper! I wonder how many bumper stickers you've removed only to find a damaged bumper underneath. Joe From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Dec 5 14:37:01 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Veroboard trace cutting tool? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041205150537.007c23a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041205150537.007c23a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Dec 2004, Joe R. wrote: > > Why not just get a end mill as used in milling machines? They come in a > wide variety of sizes and are readily available. They're made in two flute > and four flute types and the bottom is flat. And the last time you (successfully) tried to cut a 3/32 flat spot into fibreglass PC board using a hand-drill - or even a Dremel tool? with an itty-bitty end-mill??? Unless of course you have the mill to go with the cutter - then you can clamp it down and just take a fine cut. 20 minutes later, voila! all done! The thing about the Veroboard tools is that they have a central locating pin that fits into the hole, around which you want to cut an insulating ring. And it's that centering pin that makes it easy... without it, well - I hope you have spare board stock on hand. ;} Been there; done that; still have the bloody t-shirt. Cheerz John From dan at ekoan.com Sun Dec 5 14:42:42 2004 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Computer equipment in Queens, New York (USA) Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041205153802.07a458b0@mail.marcal.com> I received the following list of equipment looking for a new home. It's located in Queens, New York. If you have an interest in any of this and can pick it up in person (no shipping), send me an e-mail off list and I'll put you in contact with the owner. > * A Packard Bell Force 50-CD computer with 50 MHz Intel Microprocessor, > 340 MB hard drive, 4 MB RAM, and Windows 3.1 operating system. Works great. > >* A Tandy 1000 PC with dual 5 1/4 floppy disk drive, and all the >peripherals, including keyboard, Tandy RGB Color Monitor CM-4, manuals, >software, cables, and Radio Shack TRS-80 dot matrix printer (also with >manual). All work great, despite their age. > >* Hayes Smartmodem 2400. > >* An Okidata Microline 192 dot matrix printer. > >* A Canon BJC-250 printer. > >* Software on 5 1/4 floppy disks: >-- Wordstar (and manual) >-- DOS 5.0 (and manual) >-- WordPerfect 5.1 >-- PerfectWriter >-- PrintShop >-- Tetris >-- Wheel of Fortune >-- Zork >-- Jeopardy. Cheers, Dan From jeroen.van.hengstum at hccnet.nl Sun Dec 5 14:20:55 2004 From: jeroen.van.hengstum at hccnet.nl (Jeroen van Hengstum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: <0411300233.AA02774@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0411300233.AA02774@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041205193435.01d47a68@pop.hccnet.nl> Hello all, Thank you for all the feedback and good advice I got on my question about my "new" VAX 11/725. I will need some time to try out the proposed solutions. I do have a boot-tape (only one) and seven rc25 packs. But unfortunately I first have to find a proper key to select the /off/standby/local/remote/ at the console-switch? I am glad that there are still people giving feedback to a question about this small old VAX, and that there are still a few machines left in the US. This one is standing at the address below. I certainly could use some support with this project (of course I will pay any costs for shipment). Thanks, Jeroen van Hengstum Cauberg 10 2716 ES Zoetermeer Netherlands ----------------- At 03:33 30-11-2004, you wrote: >Brad Parker wrote: > >> You can boot bsd43 in 2mb of ram on a 730. > >Thanks for checking this, it's good to hear that this is still the case >with current 4.3BSD-Quasijarus. > >MS From spectre at floodgap.com Sun Dec 5 15:22:41 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Looking for a place to get small(-ish) SCSI drives In-Reply-To: from chris at "Dec 5, 4 12:31:24 pm" Message-ID: <200412052122.NAA35412@floodgap.com> > Another place to look is the LowEndMac Swap list. You can probably put > out a request for small drives and get more than you would want for > little money (lowendmac.com check the email lists) I know I've got a small stockpile of 40s, 80s and 250s that I'll probably never use again (not generally worth it to me to put a drive < 500MB in a system anymore, with the exception of the very earliest Compact Macs here). If you're interested in a few, I could look through my stock. Contact me off list. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- There's a sucker born every minute. -- P. T. Barnum ------------------------ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Dec 5 15:11:32 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Veroboard trace cutting tool? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20041205150537.007c23a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041205150537.007c23a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041205161132.007be570@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:37 PM 12/5/04 -0500, you wrote: > > >On Sun, 5 Dec 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> >> Why not just get a end mill as used in milling machines? They come in a >> wide variety of sizes and are readily available. They're made in two flute >> and four flute types and the bottom is flat. > > > And the last time you (successfully) tried to cut a 3/32 flat spot into >fibreglass PC board using a hand-drill - or even a Dremel tool? It works fine for me. But my "dremel" tool in made by Index and weighs about 1500 pounds :-) with an >itty-bitty end-mill??? Unless of course you have the mill to go with the >cutter - then you can clamp it down and just take a fine cut. 20 minutes >later, voila! all done! 20 minutes! I could chip out a piece of flint and cut with that in less than 20 minutes! It takes me longer to walk out to the shop than it does to cut it. Clamping, installing the end mill, cutting, removing the CCA and cleaning out the chips takes WELL under two minutes. > > The thing about the Veroboard tools is that they have a central locating >pin that fits into the hole, Good for Veroboard. If that's what you want THEN GO BUY IT! But Ethan asked for a substitute and they do not make counterbores with guide pins small enough to fit into a wire hole on a circuit board. around which you want to cut an insulating >ring. And it's that centering pin that makes it easy... without it, That why I use a milling machine! In case you've nver seen one, you CLAMP the work in place and then move the table (with the attached work piece) to the correct position. I suggest you go find a book on milling machines and read up on them. It's a very usefull machine. well >- I hope you have spare board stock on hand. ;}. > > Been there; done that; still have the bloody t-shirt. Then you're doing something wrong! Joe > >Cheerz > >John > > From pcw at mesanet.com Sun Dec 5 15:14:36 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: 7 Track tape drives? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=493109&convertTo=USD possibly 7 track according to: http://prodevweb.prodev.usna.edu/SeaNav/NS40x/NS401_old/introduction/html/inteqip.html ______________________________________________________________________________ RD-358(V), RD-358A(V)/UYK Magnetic Tape Subsystems (MTSs) The MTSs are medium speed devices providing a means for large capacity auxiliary storage of computer data on magnetic tape. An MTS consists of a Control Unit and a Magnetic Tape Transport (MTT). The control unit contains the logical functions required for controlling the MTT and accommodating the requirements of the external data processing system. The MTS is used by the C2P for extracting data, reading JTIDS information from tape, and transcribing files to the Embedded Memory Subsystem (EMS). The RD-358(V)/UYK has two tape drives which have seven recording tracks. These units are found on CV/CVN platforms. The RD-358A/UYK has four tape drives, two with nine recording tracks and two with seven recording tracks. These units are found on CG, DDG, and LHA platforms. The C2P controls access to the specific recorded media for JTIDS. A ship requiring "nine track" tapes cannot subsitute the use of "seven track" tapes due to C2P programing. ______________________________________________________________________________ Peter Wallace From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Dec 5 15:17:45 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Masscomp boards Message-ID: <1102281465.6126.16.camel@weka.localdomain> I grabbed a few pics of some of the multibus boards in our masscomp earlier: http://www.moosenet.demon.co.uk/temp/comps/masscomp CPU, FPP, disk controller, and one of the two memory boards (along with Witchy's arm :) Interesting that the CPU board has both 68000 and 68010 chips on it. Having done some head-scratching, each memory board *I think* is 1MB plus parity (so 2MB in total in the system) Disk interface is ST506; turns out there's a pair of Micropolis drives in it (and I've forgotten the model numbers, but Witchy might remember). Also floppy and tape interface on the same board. FPP board main IC is an AM29L516, plus there are 11 AM2901CPC 40-pin chips... Still no sign of keyboard and mouse for it though... cheers Jules From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 5 15:32:22 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Veroboard trace cutting tool? In-Reply-To: "Joe R." "Re: Veroboard trace cutting tool?" (Dec 5, 16:11) References: <3.0.6.32.20041205150537.007c23a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041205161132.007be570@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <10412052132.ZM22887@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 5 2004, 16:11, Joe R. wrote: > > The thing about the Veroboard tools is that they have a central locating > >pin that fits into the hole, Ones I've seen don't, but... > Good for Veroboard. If that's what you want THEN GO BUY IT! But Ethan > asked for a substitute and they do not make counterbores with guide pins > small enough to fit into a wire hole on a circuit board. ...Yes, they do, I've got some. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Sun Dec 5 15:49:53 2004 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 References: <0411300233.AA02774@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <6.2.0.14.2.20041205193435.01d47a68@pop.hccnet.nl> Message-ID: <005501c4db14$5aae0780$3a92a8c0@maggie> yes - that damn tiny red plastic key. it's not like the PDP11 ones... btw my boot tape is "BE-T1731-ME TU58#34 VAX 11725/730 CONSOLE" I wonder if it is possible to load BSD (quasisaurus) on TU58, as I have no 9 track take or ethernet on the system. It might be possible to write BSD load images from a PC to the TU-58, as I know VMS be be loaded like this. h ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeroen van Hengstum" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 3:20 PM Subject: Re: VAX 11/725 > Hello all, > > Thank you for all the feedback and good advice I got on my question about my "new" VAX 11/725. > I will need some time to try out the proposed solutions. I do have a boot-tape (only one) and seven rc25 packs. But unfortunately I first have to find a proper key to select the /off/standby/local/remote/ at the console-switch? > I am glad that there are still people giving feedback to a question about this small old VAX, and that there are still a few machines left in the US. This one is standing at the address below. I certainly could use some support with this project (of course I will pay any costs for shipment). > > Thanks, > > Jeroen van Hengstum > Cauberg 10 > 2716 ES Zoetermeer > Netherlands > ----------------- > At 03:33 30-11-2004, you wrote: > >Brad Parker wrote: > > > >> You can boot bsd43 in 2mb of ram on a 730. > > > >Thanks for checking this, it's good to hear that this is still the case > >with current 4.3BSD-Quasijarus. > > > >MS > > From technobug at comcast.net Sun Dec 5 15:55:50 2004 From: technobug at comcast.net (CRC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Veroboard trace cutting tool? In-Reply-To: <200412051800.iB5I0Hje011867@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200412051800.iB5I0Hje011867@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <6DAE51FC-4708-11D9-A845-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 Ethan Dicks noted: > On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 11:26:47 GMT, Pete Turnbull > wrote: >> So does the genuine Veroboard cutter. It's just a stub drill mounted >> in a blue plastic handle, and its only advantage is that it's easier >> to >> hold. There's quite a good picture at >> http://www.zen22142.zen.co.uk/Prac/vero_circ/vero.htm > > Ah... I was under the impression that the cutting edge had a > substantially different angle fro a drill (like describing a 180 > degree arc between the cutting surfaces rather than, say, 150 > degrees). > > I guess this picture... > > http://www.zen22142.zen.co.uk/Prac/vero_circ/8.jpg > > .... really shows the divot one gets from the real tool. > > I might just have to just use the drill press for this task (taking > advantage of the stop to keep from drilling _though_ the resin board > ;-) > > The tool looks handy for more than a few cuts, though. I wouldn't > want to try just holding a bit bare-handed - lots of hand cramps and > slips probably. > > [...] > Thanks for the website tip... nice pix. > > -ethan In the past I used a vector pad cutter (a great tool for doing breadballs) to cut the traces on Vero/Vector boards. The cutter has a guide pin to guide an annular cutter. Generally used to isolate a pad on a blank PC board, but works great for cutting the traces on protoboard. Since it is a mill-like cutter, it does not generate a divit like a drill bit. A while back after being deprived of access to this tool (read downsized...), I decided to pick one up for myself. The part is listed in Digi-key under the Vector Board section. However, the sticker shock was extreme. As an alternate, I found that they make mills of similar design for cutting various sizes of o-ring grooves and are priced within reach. As a cheap alternate, a simple end mill of the right diameter in a drill press should do the job admirably. CRC From allain at panix.com Sun Dec 5 15:47:27 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Removing adhesives, was Re: Reel-to-reel... References: <41B1AA2A.8090703@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <00f201c4db15$88cf4e20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >> Lighter fluid is often a good solvent for removing adhesive residue... > By far the best stuff I've ever used is "Goo-Gone"... Goo-Gone may have a limited shelf life since the two times I've tried it, off of two completely independent parties shelves, I found it vastly inferior to lighter fluid. From those two experiences I won't buy it. Im interested on a head-to-head comparison from a person on this list who has used both. John A. From pkoning at equallogic.com Sun Dec 5 16:04:47 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 References: <0411300233.AA02774@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <6.2.0.14.2.20041205193435.01d47a68@pop.hccnet.nl> <005501c4db14$5aae0780$3a92a8c0@maggie> Message-ID: <16819.34303.293000.872040@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Heinz" == Heinz Wolter writes: Heinz> yes - that damn tiny red plastic key. it's not like the PDP11 Heinz> ones... btw my boot tape is "BE-T1731-ME TU58#34 VAX Heinz> 11725/730 CONSOLE" The PDP11 key will work, as will any other ACE key. The "lock" you're looking at has no pins, so anything in the shape of an ACE key, no matter what pin combination, will turn it. paul From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Dec 5 16:06:57 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Veroboard trace cutting tool? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041205161132.007be570@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041205150537.007c23a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041205150537.007c23a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041205161132.007be570@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Dec 2004, Joe R. wrote: > > That why I use a milling machine! In case you've nver seen one, you > CLAMP the work in place and then move the table (with the attached work > piece) to the correct position. I suggest you go find a book on milling > machines and read up on them. It's a very usefull machine. AHH! So *that's* what I've been doing wrong these last 40 years or so - dang - shoulda read the Bridgeport manual before I went to All That Trouble. I kinda thought I shouldn't have to use the travelling crane and bosn's chair every time I wanted to make a little piece for something. Hey! I bet I can unbolt the LeBlond spindle from the shop wall and it'll stop flinging parts all over the place when I try and turn something... This List is *such* a great resource... Cheers John PS: I don't think you got the fact that I was **kidding** Joe - ya'll need to lighten up just a bit.... ;} Musta been all them Hurrycanes.. here (Carson City) it's just topped 25F for the high, back down to the single digits, and Snow on the way tomorrow... woohoo! PPS: Everyone on classiccmp who actually *has* any kind of milling machine available, let alone on your premises - raise yer hands.... see? From pcw at mesanet.com Sun Dec 5 16:09:23 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Removing adhesives, was Re: Reel-to-reel... In-Reply-To: <00f201c4db15$88cf4e20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Dec 2004, John Allain wrote: > >> Lighter fluid is often a good solvent for removing adhesive residue... > > > By far the best stuff I've ever used is "Goo-Gone"... > > Goo-Gone may have a limited shelf life since the two times I've > tried it, off of two completely independent parties shelves, I found > it vastly inferior to lighter fluid. From those two experiences I won't > buy it. Im interested on a head-to-head comparison from a person > on this list who has used both. > > John A. > > > Cheaper (and somewhat less volatile) than lighter fluid is charcoal starting fluid... Peter Wallace From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Dec 5 16:10:48 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Veroboard trace cutting tool? In-Reply-To: <6DAE51FC-4708-11D9-A845-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> References: <200412051800.iB5I0Hje011867@huey.classiccmp.org> <6DAE51FC-4708-11D9-A845-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Dec 2004, CRC wrote: > > In the past I used a vector pad cutter (a great tool for doing breadballs) to > cut the traces on Vero/Vector boards. The cutter has a guide pin to guide an Oh, yeah... That's what I was thinking of - not Vero - Vector... > alternate, I found that they make mills of similar design for cutting various > sizes of o-ring grooves and are priced within reach. And those I've used as well, but the 'land' is smaller as a result. Now back to them Milling machiners.... Cheerz John From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 5 16:22:20 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Veroboard trace cutting tool? In-Reply-To: John Lawson "Re: Veroboard trace cutting tool?" (Dec 5, 17:06) References: <3.0.6.32.20041205150537.007c23a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041205161132.007be570@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <10412052222.ZM2211@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 5 2004, 17:06, John Lawson wrote: > PPS: Everyone on classiccmp who actually *has* any kind of milling machine > available, let alone on your premises - raise yer hands.... If a Unimat counts, or a Myford lathe with the extra slides, I do :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Sun Dec 5 16:40:44 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: IBM Thinkpad 390 disks? Message-ID: Any one have an IBM Thinkpad 390? I am building a DOS machine, and I need some of the drivers, I went to DRIVERGUIDE.COM and did not find them there. I went to IBM and found the names of the files, but they refused to upload. The files are supposedly at ftp.software.ibm.com but the directory they are supposed to be in appears to be empty. Files I need.... pctpbdos.exe and .txt PCMCIA drivers for DOS uttpdos.exe and .txt Utility Disk for DOS mdltbdos.exe and .txt Lucent winmodem drivers for DOS I have googled the filenames, but they lead back to either IBM or Driverguide. My DOS is stuck in 640x480 mode on an 800x600 screen. This makes an inch wide black border around the text-space. :^\ Anyone have an IBM 390 (mainframe style), I am trying to build menus and screens that look mainframish, I have already written a login program in turbo C that looks sort of mainframe-ish. are there any examples of mainframe screens on the internet? ?? From chenmel at earthlink.net Sun Dec 5 16:48:08 2004 From: chenmel at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 Questions. In-Reply-To: <200412051301.30056.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <41B2EE09.3070208@gjcp.net> <10412051143.ZM5254@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200412051301.30056.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 13:01:29 -0500, Pat wrote: >On Sunday 05 December 2004 06:43, Pete Turnbull wrote: >> Better than hacking RJ45s would be to hack RJ11 (6P/6C) plugs. >> They're very common, about a quarter of the price of MMJs, and there >> are low-cost crimp tools available. > >Agreed, the only difference between an RJ12/RJ11 and MMJ is the tab >location, which can be easily sliced off (though that usually makes for >a loose fitting connector). > >> For anyone in the UK who needs *a few*, I believe I still have a box >> of adapter cables for Emulex terminal servers. These are short >> (about 8-10 inches) flat cables with an MMJ on one end and an RJ45 on >> the other. You can have a few for the cost of postage. > >And if anyone in the US wants one, I can do up to, say, 25ft MMJ->MMJ or >MMJ->RJ(12/45) cables for $5 + shipping. I had a few takers last time >I did this, and they seemed to be happy with my handiwork. : ) > If you made something like this, would the RJ-45 end plug into one of the serial adaptors that I got from the back of a rackmount US Robotics modem box? It's one of those plugs that adapts from RJ-45 jack to a DB-25 male plug. If so, it would be great to get one of those. I'd do it myself, but I literally have to look across a room completely stuffed with boxes of junk to see my electronics bench. I really _really_ need to clean things up. I'm way out of it as far as serial interfaces and interface standards, cable pinouts, etc. I null-modem into Sun boxes to install Solaris and NetBSD over a serial console, and talk to my HP 95LX over a little serial cable, but it's been ages since I tackled it much further. But in the last month I've acquired two serial-console only machines. (the MicroVAX, and an Altos 586 Xenix box (8086 Xenix in 512K of RAM)). I'm so out of it as far as serial goes that I struggled for half a day with the serial interface to the Altos box before I realized 'hey, I should NOT be using a Null-modem cable to connect a Linux box running Minicom to the Altos console. This is the REAL THING, not terminal-to-terminal.' Could be it's time to design and build up a 'serial switchbox/crossbar/multiplexer.' That would be a cool app for a mid-sized PIC controller and some of those 6402s I have lying around. Hmmm... A 'serial hub' to connect it all together... I'm interested in one of those cables, Pat. To accelerate my getting that MicroVAX online. I located a SCSI CDROM for it yesterday from my hoard that has jumpers on the back labeled 'parity' and 'block size' so I think it's all coming together. Scott From chenmel at earthlink.net Sun Dec 5 16:52:59 2004 From: chenmel at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: IBM Thinkpad 390 disks? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2347r0tc0jfjgn81gvtblivup7hab36g87@4ax.com> On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 14:40:44 -0800, you wrote: >Any one have an IBM Thinkpad 390? > >I am building a DOS machine, and I need some of the drivers, >I went to DRIVERGUIDE.COM and did not find them there. I went >to IBM and found the names of the files, but they refused to >upload. > >The files are supposedly at ftp.software.ibm.com but the directory >they are supposed to be in appears to be empty. > Make sure it wasn't a temporary outage at IBM. I was digging around at IBM's support site late last night for stuff related to an RS/6000 server that I bought at auction yesterday (a 7025 F50 server fully loaded for $5) and about halfway through my trawling, all pages to the support site started coming up 'Site down for servicing, back at 3:00AM'. Your missing files conceivably could be a side effect of that. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 5 17:07:31 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Veroboard trace cutting tool? In-Reply-To: <10412052222.ZM2211@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Dec 5, 4 10:22:20 pm Message-ID: > > On Dec 5 2004, 17:06, John Lawson wrote: > > > PPS: Everyone on classiccmp who actually *has* any kind of milling > machine > > available, let alone on your premises - raise yer hands.... > > If a Unimat counts, or a Myford lathe with the extra slides, I do :-) I have the latter (Myford Super 7 with vertical slide, and for that matter the dividing head). It's not got the travel of a real milling machine, but I couldn't fit both the lathe and a milling machine into my workshop (I couldn't afford them either!) and a lathe is the more general purpose tool IMHO. Certainly I don't regret the decision. However to get back to cutting tracks on stripboard (the generic name IMHO), the problem with using a machine tool is holding the board when you've got compoonents mounted on it. I rarely (if ever) plan the complete layout in advance, amke all the cuts, and solder the parts on. If I've got the design to that level, I'd make a real PCB. Stripboard is normally used for experimental setups here, so I'll build a bit, test it, build a bit more, test that, and so on. Which means a hand-held cutter is essential. -tony From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 5 17:19:54 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 Questions. In-Reply-To: Scott Stevens "Re: MicroVAX 3100 Questions." (Dec 5, 17:48) References: <41B2EE09.3070208@gjcp.net> <10412051143.ZM5254@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200412051301.30056.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <10412052319.ZM3080@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 5 2004, 17:48, Scott Stevens wrote: > On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 13:01:29 -0500, Pat wrote: > > >On Sunday 05 December 2004 06:43, Pete Turnbull wrote: > >> Better than hacking RJ45s would be to hack RJ11 (6P/6C) plugs. > >> They're very common, about a quarter of the price of MMJs, and there > >> are low-cost crimp tools available. > > > >Agreed, the only difference between an RJ12/RJ11 and MMJ is the tab > >location, which can be easily sliced off (though that usually makes for > >a loose fitting connector). > > > >> For anyone in the UK who needs *a few*, I believe I still have a box > >> of adapter cables for Emulex terminal servers. These are short > >> (about 8-10 inches) flat cables with an MMJ on one end and an RJ45 on > >> the other. You can have a few for the cost of postage. > > > >And if anyone in the US wants one, I can do up to, say, 25ft MMJ->MMJ or > >MMJ->RJ(12/45) cables for $5 + shipping. I had a few takers last time > >I did this, and they seemed to be happy with my handiwork. : ) > > > > If you made something like this, would the RJ-45 end plug into one of > the serial adaptors that I got from the back of a rackmount US > Robotics modem box? It's one of those plugs that adapts from RJ-45 > jack to a DB-25 male plug. Pat can tell you how his cables are wired, but the easiest way, especially with flat cable, is pin-to-opposite-pin (ie, bearing in mind that an MMJ has 6 pins and an RJ45 has 8, it goes MMJ-1 to RJ45-7, ...., MMJ-6 to RJ45-2). This happens to be the way DEC made most of their MMJ cables. DEC also used a standard signal arrangement, with the two centre pins being ground, the two next to those being Rx and Tx, and the outermost two being the handshakes. That meant a null-modem was just a question of plugging in the cable between console port and terminal. The reason I mention this is that *some* RJ45-DE9/DB25 adapters and *some* serial-on-RJ45 ports use a similar convention; Suns and Cisco kit tend to do so, and some terminal servers, but not all. Take a look at the YOST page: http://yost.com/Computers/RJ45-serial/ and also at Celeste Stokely's serial port pages: http://www.stokely.com/unix.serial.port.resources/A-B-Ycablepinout.html There is one other quite common method, though; we use it at York, and I've seen it in several other places. Based on the assumption that we only need Rx and Tx, no handshaking, we wire Tx to RJ45-1, Rx to RJ45-3, and ground to RJ45-2 and RJ45-6. Why? Because 1+2 and 3+6 are twisted pairs in Cat5 and they are the pins used by Ethernet cables, so it means we can use standard Ethernet Cat5 cables for straight-through connections, and standard Ethernet crossover cables as, well, crossovers (I couldn't really call them null-modem as they don't carry handshake signals). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 5 17:49:45 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Logitech mouse entrails Message-ID: <10412052349.ZM3136@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Barely within the 10-year rule... Does anybody have a Logitech mouse model M-S35, possibly damaged mechanically but with working electronics (specifically the IC that does the work)? This model is a 3-button PS/2 Pilot mouse, OEMed by SGI, DEC, IBM, and probably others, and mine stopped working yesterday :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Dec 5 18:59:34 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Project finishing, was Re: Veroboard trace cutting tool? In-Reply-To: <10412051910.ZM6157@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <41B34E1E.4B26208C@rain.org> <07f6a7184d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <10412051910.ZM6157@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <2dc2c9184d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <10412051910.ZM6157@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Pete Turnbull wrote: > > I personally use inkjet transparencies. Print a mirrored version of > the > > layout onto the back (matted) side of the transparency. Spray the > > transparency (or the case if there's a square display cutout) with 3M > > PhotoMount adhesive, wait 15 seconds (IIRC), then stick the > transparency to > > the panel. Cut off any excess plastic and you're done. > > Exactly what I did when I made spare unit plugs for an RL02, several > years ago (except I used laser transparencies). The only problem I found is that it's totally useless for dark-coloured panels (or really anything that isn't metallic or white), because the inks aren't particularly opaque. That and you can't print white lettering onto the transparency :-/ > Spraymount. And the really strong stuff is called Hobbymount. Hm. I'll have to see if I can find that anywhere - all I managed to find was the blue-can Spraymount and the red-can Photomount. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... I can't think of anything witty to say right now. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 5 19:28:01 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Project finishing, was Re: Veroboard trace cutting tool? In-Reply-To: Philip Pemberton "Re: Project finishing, was Re: Veroboard trace cutting tool?" (Dec 6, 0:59) References: <41B34E1E.4B26208C@rain.org> <07f6a7184d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <10412051910.ZM6157@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <2dc2c9184d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <10412060128.ZM3306@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 6 2004, 0:59, Philip Pemberton wrote: > In message <10412051910.ZM6157@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Spraymount. And the really strong stuff is called Hobbymount. > > Hm. I'll have to see if I can find that anywhere - all I managed to find was > the blue-can Spraymount and the red-can Photomount. I think I got it either in Office World or from CPC. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From lists at microvax.org Sun Dec 5 21:24:00 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie lists) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Project finishing Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Dec 2004, Philip Pemberton wrote: > The only problem I found is that it's totally useless for dark-coloured > panels (or really anything that isn't metallic or white), because the > inks aren't particularly opaque. That and you can't print white lettering > onto the transparency :-/ In this case, print your graphics in an outlined, bubble manner - so lines become long, thin empty boxes. Paint in the gap in the center with Tipp-Ex (whiteout). Turn it over: nice, neat white lines! :D alex/melt From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Dec 5 21:20:07 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Hitachi_64180_User=92s_Databook?= Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041205222007.007cd1d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Nice item for those intersted in the SB-180 Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Dec 5 21:21:24 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Intersil Microprocessor PDP Electronic IC Chip Databook Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041205222124.007ce2b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Joe From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Dec 5 23:25:53 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Interesting book References: <41B2EAFB.7060309@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <41B3ED61.30209@jetnet.ab.ca> William Maddox wrote: > I recently picked up an interesting book, entitled "The Logic Desgign of > Computers: An Introduction", by M. Paul Chinitz. Mr. Chinitz was > Director of Training at Univac from 1953 to 1956, and it shows -- even > though this book was published in 1981. Seriously, the design style in > the book is straight out of the 50's and 60's. Although the book makes > numerous references to standard TTL logic components, he does just about > everything with simple gates and RS flip-flops, and devotes space to > such dated topics (for a book of its scope) as 1's complement > arithmetic, serial arithmetic, and delay lines. Proponents of a > straightforward fully-synchronous design style based on MSI, like > Winkel, Prosser, and Mano, would be horrified to see students taught to > gate clocks in 1981. The book uses a simple 8-bit 1-address > architecture as an example, using a multiphase clocking scheme and RS > flip-flops with preclear. All a wonderful throwback to the days when > every gate and transistor counted. Don't forget core memory and early 1024x1 Dynamic rams. :) Fun to interface. > I picked up a copy at a swap meet, misplaced it, ordered another from an > internet used bookseller, and then found my original copy. I thus now > have an extra copy of this book. It is available for $5 plus shipping if > anyone is interested. > > --Bill Design - Design - Design I think I'll go for the BIG CPU DESIGN --- A simple 24 bit CPU. So I will need the book, 14 74172's and 8 74F382's. Now if I could only drop the ALU logic since I have alot blinking lights and strange data paths. Since my goal is about PDP-8 speeds I don't think I will have a problem using LS parts. Ben. From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Sun Dec 5 23:41:35 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Interesting book In-Reply-To: <41B3ED61.30209@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <41B2EAFB.7060309@pacbell.net> <41B3ED61.30209@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <1102311696.27635.15.camel@fortran> On Sun, 2004-12-05 at 22:25 -0700, ben franchuk wrote: > Design - Design - Design > I think I'll go for the BIG CPU DESIGN --- A simple 24 bit CPU. > So I will need the book, 14 74172's and 8 74F382's. > Now if I could only drop the ALU logic since I have alot blinking > lights and strange data paths. Since my goal is about PDP-8 speeds > I don't think I will have a problem using LS parts. > Ben. Argh, that is exactly what I've wanted to do for ages. So, list, another one turns up spare, I WANT IT! :) -- Tore S Bekkedal From auke at muze.nl Mon Dec 6 02:51:16 2004 From: auke at muze.nl (Auke van Slooten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041205193435.01d47a68@pop.hccnet.nl> References: <0411300233.AA02774@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <6.2.0.14.2.20041205193435.01d47a68@pop.hccnet.nl> Message-ID: <41B41D84.8050608@muze.nl> Jeroen van Hengstum wrote: > Hello all, > > Thank you for all the feedback and good advice I got on my question about my "new" VAX 11/725. > I will need some time to try out the proposed solutions. I do have a boot-tape (only one) and seven rc25 packs. But unfortunately I first have to find a proper key to select the /off/standby/local/remote/ at the console-switch? > I am glad that there are still people giving feedback to a question about this small old VAX, and that there are still a few machines left in the US. This one is standing at the address below. I certainly could use some support with this project (of course I will pay any costs for shipment). > > Thanks, > > Jeroen van Hengstum > Cauberg 10 > 2716 ES Zoetermeer > Netherlands Hoi, ik denk dat ik nog wel zo'n sleuteltje voor je heb, zal ik die morgen even in een envelop stoppen en opsturen? :) Verder heb ik afgelopen week nog meer tu58 tapes ontdekt, en ik kan wel even voor je op zoek naar meer boottapes of andere nuttige tapes. mvrgr, Auke From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Mon Dec 6 02:56:22 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 Message-ID: <0412060856.AA12461@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Heinz Wolter wrote: > I wonder if it is possible to load BSD (quasisaurus) on TU58, as I have > no 9 track take or ethernet on the system. One TU58 cassette holds 256 KB of data. The root filesystem is about 5 MB, /usr about 21 MB. You do the math. That's just the binaries, more for source. MS From stanb at dial.pipex.com Mon Dec 6 02:52:30 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Veroboard trace cutting tool? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 05 Dec 2004 22:22:20 GMT." <10412052222.ZM2211@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200412060852.IAA29231@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Pete Turnbull said: > On Dec 5 2004, 17:06, John Lawson wrote: > > > PPS: Everyone on classiccmp who actually *has* any kind of milling > machine > > available, let alone on your premises - raise yer hands.... > > If a Unimat counts, or a Myford lathe with the extra slides, I do :-) And I have an old car-key-cutting machine converted into a primitive small milling machine. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Mon Dec 6 03:00:45 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Logitech mouse entrails In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 05 Dec 2004 23:49:45 GMT." <10412052349.ZM3136@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200412060900.JAA29244@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Pete Turnbull said; > Barely within the 10-year rule... Does anybody have a Logitech mouse > model M-S35, possibly damaged mechanically but with working electronics > (specifically the IC that does the work)? This model is a 3-button > PS/2 Pilot mouse, OEMed by SGI, DEC, IBM, and probably others, and mine > stopped working yesterday :-( Sorry, I'm using mine :-) Aren't 3-button meece getting hard to find now...Maplin still have some cheap ones similar in design to the Logitech but not as good - part no RY72P, about a couple of quid, if you need one desperately. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Mon Dec 6 07:45:07 2004 From: trash3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (trash3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 Questions. Message-ID: <200412061345.iB6Dj7md023553@splab.cas.neu.edu> I have the crimp tool and a few connectors left. I am in the US, so it might be less expensive for some people to have me make them. I am on vacation now, but I'll be back before Christmas. Joe Heck From ken at seefried.com Mon Dec 6 10:21:37 2004 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: DSSI DAT Unit on eBay. Message-ID: <20041206162137.31344.qmail@mail.seefried.com> I noticed the following on eBay. Looks like a fairly swanky dual DAT tape unit with a DSSI interface. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=167&item=5144248734&r d=1 From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 6 10:52:37 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: IBM Thinkpad 390 disks? In-Reply-To: <2347r0tc0jfjgn81gvtblivup7hab36g87@4ax.com> References: <2347r0tc0jfjgn81gvtblivup7hab36g87@4ax.com> Message-ID: <3C010E07-47A7-11D9-B2A6-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Dec 5, 2004, at 2:52 PM, Scott Stevens wrote: > On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 14:40:44 -0800, you wrote: > >> Any one have an IBM Thinkpad 390? >> >> I am building a DOS machine, and I need some of the drivers, >> I went to DRIVERGUIDE.COM and did not find them there. I went >> to IBM and found the names of the files, but they refused to >> upload. >> >> The files are supposedly at ftp.software.ibm.com but the directory >> they are supposed to be in appears to be empty. >> > > Make sure it wasn't a temporary outage at IBM. I was digging around > at IBM's support site late last night for stuff related to an RS/6000 > server that I bought at auction yesterday (a 7025 F50 server fully > loaded for $5) and about halfway through my trawling, all pages to the > support site started coming up 'Site down for servicing, back at > 3:00AM'. Your missing files conceivably could be a side effect of > that. Might have been it. I went back later with my wife's computer (A PC instead of a Mac) and got everything I wanted. > > > From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Mon Dec 6 10:57:30 2004 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 References: <0412060856.AA12461@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <00be01c4dbb4$ac433b60$3a92a8c0@maggie> 20 tapes? not so bad if loading from a pc emulated tu56 ;) loading VMS must have been a bear as well.. what are other options if there is no ethernet? slip/ppp? - once a basic system is loaded? h ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Sokolov" To: ; Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 3:56 AM Subject: Re: VAX 11/725 > Heinz Wolter wrote: > > > I wonder if it is possible to load BSD (quasisaurus) on TU58, as I have > > no 9 track take or ethernet on the system. > > One TU58 cassette holds 256 KB of data. The root filesystem is about > 5 MB, /usr about 21 MB. You do the math. That's just the binaries, more > for source. > > MS > From Hans.Franke at siemens.com Mon Dec 6 11:19:44 2004 From: Hans.Franke at siemens.com (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: ping Fred N. van Kempen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <41B4A2C0.17350.14B13330@localhost> Fred, are you still arround? Or does anyone on the list have a way to contact him? Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 6.0 am 30.April und 01.Mai 2005 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 6 11:19:05 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: ping Fred N. van Kempen In-Reply-To: <41B4A2C0.17350.14B13330@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Dec 2004, Hans Franke wrote: > Fred, are you still arround? > > Or does anyone on the list have a way to contact him? According to him, he's "holed up" in some super elite "top secret" location in Norway doing 1337 things (and trust him, "you don't want to know"). Either that or he's been using the nose candy again :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Dec 6 11:54:15 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:11 2005 Subject: Veroboard trace cutting tool? Message-ID: <200412061754.JAA08929@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "John Lawson" > ---snip--- >PPS: Everyone on classiccmp who actually *has* any kind of milling machine >available, let alone on your premises - raise yer hands.... > Hi I have a tinky lathe with mill attachment. It can't do really wide stuff but I used it to mill the blocks I connected to an old SA400 frame to make my hole punch for hard sectored disk ( as seen at VCF ). Dwight From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Dec 6 11:56:20 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Logitech mouse entrails In-Reply-To: Stan Barr "Re: Logitech mouse entrails" (Dec 6, 9:00) References: <200412060900.JAA29244@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <10412061756.ZM4712@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 6 2004, 9:00, Stan Barr wrote: > Pete Turnbull said; > > Barely within the 10-year rule... Does anybody have a Logitech mouse > > model M-S35, possibly damaged mechanically but with working electronics > > (specifically the IC that does the work)? This model is a 3-button > > PS/2 Pilot mouse, OEMed by SGI, DEC, IBM, and probably others, and mine > > stopped working yesterday :-( > > Sorry, I'm using mine :-) Aren't 3-button meece getting hard to find > now...Maplin still have some cheap ones similar in design to the Logitech > but not as good - part no RY72P, about a couple of quid, if you need one > desperately. No, I have a spare, but I would like to fix the bust one. It turns out that the 2-button version, M-S34, widely used on Compaq PCs and things, has the same PCB (but missing one microswitch, of course), and I think I can acquire one of those. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From brad at heeltoe.com Mon Dec 6 12:21:52 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 06 Dec 2004 11:57:30 EST." <00be01c4dbb4$ac433b60$3a92a8c0@maggie> Message-ID: <200412061821.iB6ILqhu008144@mwave.heeltoe.com> "Heinz Wolter" wrote: >20 tapes? >not so bad if loading from a pc emulated tu56 ;) >loading VMS must have been a bear as well.. >what are other options if there is no ethernet? >slip/ppp? - once a basic system is loaded? I can't imagine doing this with out ethernet. I hacked the netbsd boot program so it will copy via nfs to tape or disk. Then I could copy the root file system to tape or to disk. I ended up booting the miniroot and then using "rcp" to copy the tar files which would normally be on the install tape into my disk (I have ra90, which are big). I think to be happy with an 11/725-730 you'll want ethernet. DELUA's are pretty common and not very expensive. -brad From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Dec 6 12:25:49 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Removing adhesives, was Re: Reel-to-reel tape decks (was: Re: ZX81 denigrated!) In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041205133948.05a96b50@pc> References: <41B26C71.4040503@internet1.net> <41B26C71.4040503@internet1.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041206125835.03a22ad8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that John Foust may have mentioned these words: >At 08:03 PM 12/4/2004, Chad Fernandez wrote: > >Are you confusing Goo Gone, with Goof Off? I've never had Goo Gone > damage plastic. > >Goo Gone comes in a plastic bottle, Goof Off is more harsh >and comes in a can. As did "lighter fluid", it's naptha cousin. Huh? AFAIK, lighter fluid *is* naptha -- I refill all my nice 4-ounce zippo cans (which would cost $2.50 or so) with $4.00 per 32-ounce naptha from the woodworking section of the local hardware store. I haven't had a zippo complain yet... IIRC, at one time I even had one of those small metal which had an ingredients list, and all it said was naptha, which is where I'd gotten the idea from. I've used naptha for years as it's not nearly as harsh on plastics as acetone (altho for some things it's not as effective, either) but it *does* soften/dissolve candle wax. Oh, and there's about a quadrillion different types of plastics nowadays; just because a solvent comes in a type of plastic container, doesn't mean it won't damage a different type of plastic. >At 06:31 AM 12/5/2004, james wrote: > >This trick I learned from an autobody shop and their efforts to remove > >bumper stickers with gas torches. > >Uhm, you mean back in the days when bumpers were made of >metal, not plastic. Let alone entire tailgates (my new Avalanche), truck beds (the new Toyota) or even entire car bodies (Fiero being the first, mass-produced, anyway...) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Bugs of a feather flock together." sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Russell Nelson zmerch@30below.com | From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Dec 6 12:31:58 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Logitech mouse entrails Message-ID: <200412061831.KAA08940@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Pete Turnbull" ---snip--- > >No, I have a spare, but I would like to fix the bust one. It turns out >that the 2-button version, M-S34, widely used on Compaq PCs and things, >has the same PCB (but missing one microswitch, of course), and I think >I can acquire one of those. > Hi Pete I hope you carefully checked that there wasn't a broken wire in the cord. This is the most common cause of failure in these units. Dwight From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Dec 6 12:32:28 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Removing adhesives, was Re: Reel-to-reel tape decks (was: Re: ZX81 denigrated!) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041206125835.03a22ad8@mail.30below.com> References: <41B26C71.4040503@internet1.net> <41B26C71.4040503@internet1.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20041206125835.03a22ad8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041206123122.035baae8@pc> At 12:25 PM 12/6/2004, Roger Merchberger wrote: >>Goo Gone comes in a plastic bottle, Goof Off is more harsh >>and comes in a can. As did "lighter fluid", it's naptha cousin. > >Huh? AFAIK, lighter fluid *is* naptha -- Yes, but Goof Off may be naptha plus something else. - John From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Mon Dec 6 14:52:04 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 Message-ID: <0412062052.AA13080@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Heinz Wolter wrote: > 20 tapes? > not so bad if loading from a pc emulated tu56 ;) Well, the problem is that there exists no installation procedure for loading the main system (not even the miniroot, let alone full root or /usr) from TU58s. The console TU58 is only used for the standalone boot and copy programs. To put it another way, 4.3BSD, including Quasijarus, is, has always been and will always be totally open source, and as with all open source software, you are free to do all kinds of things with it that are not officially supported. BUT, you are entirely on your own in doing so. > what are other options if there is no ethernet? > slip/ppp? - once a basic system is loaded? The sl module for SLIP is not compiled into the distributed GENERIC kernel, so you can only use SLIP after you have successfully installed enough of the system to compile your own custom kernel. The same will be the case for PPP in the next release (no PPP support exists in the current QJ0c release). Also just as a clarification, Ethernet is not a supported option either for bootstrapping your first VAX. The next release will allow you to bootstrap your smaller MicroVAXen over Ethernet *from a larger VAX that has itself been bootstrapped from magtape*. In any case the first VAX at your site must always be bootstrapped from magtape. Also Ethernet bootstrap can only work on MicroVAXen, you can't bootstrap a 730 over Ethernet even if you had a larger 780 to boot from since 11/7xx and other machines in the "large VAX" category have no Ethernet boot capabilities. You really need to invest in a magtape drive. I'm sure you can buy a magtape drive + UNIBUS controller from a professional DEC dealer like Continental Computers or Keyways. If you want something smaller than a reel-to-reel drive, there is TUK50, UNIBUS TK50 controller. MS From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Dec 6 15:06:58 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Logitech mouse entrails In-Reply-To: "Dwight K. Elvey" "Re: Logitech mouse entrails" (Dec 6, 10:31) References: <200412061831.KAA08940@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <10412062106.ZM4987@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 6 2004, 10:31, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >From: "Pete Turnbull" > ---snip--- > > > >No, I have a spare, but I would like to fix the bust one. It turns out > >that the 2-button version, M-S34, widely used on Compaq PCs and things, > >has the same PCB (but missing one microswitch, of course), and I think > >I can acquire one of those. > > > Hi Pete > I hope you carefully checked that there wasn't a broken > wire in the cord. This is the most common cause of > failure in these units. Yes, almost the first thing I thought of. I swapped the cords with another mouse, and the fault stayed with the mouse. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Mon Dec 6 15:20:28 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 Message-ID: <0412062120.AA13199@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Brad Parker wrote: > I hacked the netbsd boot program so it will copy via nfs to tape or > disk. With 4.3BSD-Quasijarus1 you won't have to resort to using pieces from NetBSD to do what you've done. It will have a standalone netcopy program that will be like current copy (which copies the miniroot from magtape to disk as the first step in full bootstrap) except that it will copy from a TFTP server instead of magtape. As I wrote in my previous post, it will only be officially supported for bootstrapping your little MicroVAXen from your main big VAX which was itself bootstrapped from magtape, but if you want to step into not-officially-supported land, you'll be able to put netcopy on a TU58 and thus use it on your 730, and even use a lesser machine (even a pee sea) instead of a larger VAX for the TFTP server. But to make this work on a UNIBUS machine with DEUNA/DELUA, you'll have to write the standalone de driver yourself, I won't write it because UNIBUS VAXen are not officially netbootable. And you'll have to have access to some other VAX running UNIX (at least a guest account) to recompile netcopy with your de driver. > I ended up booting the miniroot and then using "rcp" to copy the tar files > which would normally be on the install tape into my disk (I have ra90, > which are big). You could have used rsh | tar. MS From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Dec 6 15:32:28 2004 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Vintige mice posted - Xerox Alto & Star, Hawley & Lilith Message-ID: <8d.1b85ef63.2ee629ec@aol.com> I posted some vintage mice on ebay that I think might be of interest here. Xerox Alto Ebay sale number 5145159299 Xerox star Ebay sale number 5145167668 Hawley X063X Ebay sale number 5145309516 Lilith Ebay sale number 5145162664 also Amstrad CP/M Plus OS 3" disks Ebay sale number 7119143389 You can search under seller: Innfosale If you have questions please contact me off list at innfosale@aol.com Three plus days to go. Will ship worldwide. Thanks Paxton Astoria, OR From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Mon Dec 6 18:06:17 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: <00be01c4dbb4$ac433b60$3a92a8c0@maggie> References: <0412060856.AA12461@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <00be01c4dbb4$ac433b60$3a92a8c0@maggie> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:57:30 -0500, Heinz Wolter wrote: > 20 tapes? > not so bad if loading from a pc emulated tu56 ;) > loading VMS must have been a bear as well.. I remember VMS 3.x fitting on a few tapes, but that was back in the day when DEC was _shipping_ machines with 2MB of RAM (max of 8MB). At SRC, our first 11/750 shipped with 512KB, max of 2 MB until I added the magic wire and swapped out the memory controller. :-) > what are other options if there is no ethernet? > slip/ppp? - once a basic system is loaded? If you mean BSD, I'd expect SLIP or PPP... the 11/725 _should_ have a DMF-32 combo I/O card - 8 serial ports, 1 sync serial (for DDCMP, etc.), one parallel that can be used to drive a line printer. As for VMS... the connectivity options on older versions of VMS are more limited. We used to use that sync port and a DECnet end-node license key to hook it to a similar port on that 11/750 mentioned above. It needs a sync modem eliminator in between (the modem generates the clocking, not either end), and it's not quick, but you can set up DECnet to move mail and copy files and log in remotely. Ethernet is a possibility, of course, presuming you have a DEUNA or DELUA. -ethan From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Dec 6 18:34:27 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Dec 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:57:30 -0500, Heinz Wolter wrote: > > 20 tapes? > > not so bad if loading from a pc emulated tu56 ;) > > loading VMS must have been a bear as well.. > > what are other options if there is no ethernet? > > slip/ppp? - once a basic system is loaded? > > If you mean BSD, I'd expect SLIP or PPP... the 11/725 _should_ have a > DMF-32 combo I/O card - 8 serial ports, 1 sync serial (for DDCMP, > etc.), one parallel that can be used to drive a line printer. I actually wrote a driver that did IP-over-DDMCP on the VAX end, with a modified IOS running at the other end, on a Cisco 2501. Dont ask where I got that source ;-) Still.. because the sync framing was done by the DDMCP chip on the board, it was fairly fast- MUCH faster than SLIP or PPP would be. > As for VMS... the connectivity options on older versions of VMS are > more limited. We used to use that sync port and a DECnet end-node > license key to hook it to a similar port on that 11/750 mentioned > above. It needs a sync modem eliminator in between (the modem > generates the clocking, not either end), and it's not quick, but you > can set up DECnet to move mail and copy files and log in remotely. > Ethernet is a possibility, of course, presuming you have a DEUNA or > DELUA. This is why I usually grab all the sync modems I can lay my hands on; fun for playing, and allows for totally awed viewers :) --f From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Dec 6 18:51:15 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Removing adhesives, was Re: Reel-to-reel tape decks In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041206123122.035baae8@pc> References: <41B26C71.4040503@internet1.net> <41B26C71.4040503@internet1.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20041206125835.03a22ad8@mail.30below.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041206123122.035baae8@pc> Message-ID: <41B4FE83.8040405@mdrconsult.com> John Foust wrote: > At 12:25 PM 12/6/2004, Roger Merchberger wrote: > >>>Goo Gone comes in a plastic bottle, Goof Off is more harsh >>>and comes in a can. As did "lighter fluid", it's naptha cousin. >> >>Huh? AFAIK, lighter fluid *is* naptha -- > > > Yes, but Goof Off may be naptha plus something else. It smells and feels more like acetone. Doc From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Dec 6 19:01:24 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: <0412062052.AA13080@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Dec 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > You really need to invest in a magtape drive. I'm sure you can buy a > magtape drive + UNIBUS controller from a professional DEC dealer like > Continental Computers or Keyways. If you want something smaller than a > reel-to-reel drive, there is TUK50, UNIBUS TK50 controller. Or, in a more realistic scheme, you really need to invest (time) in implementing VTserver as a load device for the low-end VAXen. And even for the larger ones, it would make for a fast load of Q. --f From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Mon Dec 6 19:03:17 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 Message-ID: <0412070103.AA13529@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > I actually wrote a driver that did IP-over-DDMCP on the VAX end, Such a driver has existed in standard BSD since 4.2, except that it's for the DMC-11/DMR-11/DMV-11 (which do all DDCMP processing on board and can't be made to talk any other protocol to my knowledge) rather than for the DMF32 that this thread is presumably about. The DMF32 sync port supports DDCMP too, but it leaves more work to the host and supports HDLC as well. > with a modified IOS running at the other end, on a Cisco 2501. If you needed to connect the DMF32 sync port to a Cisco router, why didn't you implement Cisco HDLC on the VAX side instead? (As I've done in 2000 in 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0b on a DSV11.) I'm sure you know the frame format: 00 packet addr is 0F for unicast or 8F for multicast/broadcast*. It's the simplest and IMO the best framing format for IP over a sync line, I've used it on T1s (well, fractional T1 since DSV11 is limited to 256 kbps), and it comes from Cisco. *The only thing that I never understood is what the hell did Cisco mean by multicast or broadcast on a point-to-point link. I guess it dates from the days before people realised that a point-to-point link is not a network (no ARP, etc.) and does not need to burn up a net/subnet number, and people would map a net number (hopefully a /30 subnet) to each point-to-point link. Then .1 and .2 addrs would be assigned to the ends and I guess the 8F addr byte was generated on packets addressed to .3... My driver always puts 0F in the address field of transmitted packets and treats 0F and 8F as equivalent on reception; and I always configure the net interface as unnumbered (for my end use the same address as assigned to one of my real Ethernets, for the other end put in whatever addr the ISP gave me for their router; my driver does not require them to be numerically related as they would be with a /30 subnet). The approach of using a /30 subnet for a point-to-point link now has to be used only when you are forced to use an Ethernet as a point-to-point link without PPPoE, which is stupid but unfortunately used by some DSL providers. > This is why I usually grab all the sync modems I can lay my hands on; USR Courier V.Everything (external of course) supports sync mode on its DB25 port. The problem is with the other end of the call... I'm using such modem for my PPP connection, and while I would love to run sync PPP, I doubt that the ISP's POP will support it. MS From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 6 18:39:30 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: <0412060856.AA12461@ivan.Harhan.ORG> from "Michael Sokolov" at Dec 6, 4 08:56:22 am Message-ID: > > Heinz Wolter wrote: > > > I wonder if it is possible to load BSD (quasisaurus) on TU58, as I have > > no 9 track take or ethernet on the system. > > One TU58 cassette holds 256 KB of data. The root filesystem is about > 5 MB, /usr about 21 MB. You do the math. That's just the binaries, more > for source. Presumably, therefore, running it from a single R80 disk is not really practical either (at least not if you want to have the sources, or at least enough to rebuilt the kernel, on the disk). -tony From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Mon Dec 6 19:24:06 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 Message-ID: <0412070124.AA13598@ivan.Harhan.ORG> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > Presumably, therefore, running it from a single R80 disk is not really > practical either (at least not if you want to have the sources, or at > least enough to rebuilt the kernel, on the disk). Actually it'll fit, and you will have room for the kernel source. In fact you could even load the full userland source, but then you won't have any room left for actual work, err play. MS From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Dec 6 19:38:51 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: <0412070103.AA13529@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Such a driver has existed in standard BSD since 4.2, except that it's > for the DMC-11/DMR-11/DMV-11 (which do all DDCMP processing on board and > can't be made to talk any other protocol to my knowledge) rather than > for the DMF32 that this thread is presumably about. Indeed. I run DMV11's here. I know. > The DMF32 sync port supports DDCMP too, but it leaves more work to > the host and supports HDLC as well. Correct. Still, it offloads a LOT of the enframe and deframe work to the board CPU. > > with a modified IOS running at the other end, on a Cisco 2501. > If you needed to connect the DMF32 sync port to a Cisco router, why didn't > you implement Cisco HDLC on the VAX side instead? (As I've done in 2000 Probably because that was a test link; the production system (with the same driver) connected to a real DDMCP network. The choice was to either change the WAN to HDLC/PPP, or make that one box talk IP over DDMCP. > in 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0b on a DSV11.) I'm sure you know the frame format: > 00 packet > addr is 0F for unicast or 8F for multicast/broadcast*. After 17 years of networking, I guess I'm aware of the various frame formats, yes. > *The only thing that I never understood is what the hell did Cisco mean > by multicast or broadcast on a point-to-point link. I guess it dates from Frame filtering. > the days before people realised that a point-to-point link is not a network > (no ARP, etc.) and does not need to burn up a net/subnet number, and people > would map a net number (hopefully a /30 subnet) to each point-to-point link. > Then .1 and .2 addrs would be assigned to the ends and I guess the 8F addr > byte was generated on packets addressed to .3... My driver always puts There are very good reasons for assigning IP addresses to both ends of a WAN connection, especially in multipath environments and/or networks that use link-state routing protocols. We dont all use "route add default wan0" you know. > The approach of using a /30 subnet for a point-to-point link now has to > be used only when you are forced to use an Ethernet as a point-to-point > link without PPPoE, which is stupid but unfortunately used by some DSL > providers. Actually, by most xDSL providers in Europe. So, apparently it's not THAT stupid. Its a cheap 10Mbps (or even 100Mbps, if needed) leased line technology with baseband encoding to them :) > USR Courier V.Everything (external of course) supports sync mode on its > DB25 port. The problem is with the other end of the call... I'm using > such modem for my PPP connection, and while I would love to run sync PPP, > I doubt that the ISP's POP will support it. If they use TotalControl or akin racks, they will. I used to run that over my USR Courier I-Modem (ISDN V.Everything with both digital and analog protocols.) --f From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Mon Dec 6 19:56:10 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: <0412070103.AA13529@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0412070103.AA13529@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Dec 04 01:03:17 GMT, Michael Sokolov wrote: > If you needed to connect the DMF32 sync port to a Cisco router, why didn't > you implement Cisco HDLC on the VAX side instead? (As I've done in 2000 > in 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0b on a DSV11.) I'm sure you know the frame format: > 00 packet > addr is 0F for unicast or 8F for multicast/broadcast*. > It's the simplest and IMO the best framing format for IP over a sync line, > I've used it on T1s (well, fractional T1 since DSV11 is limited to 256 kbps), > and it comes from Cisco. Hmm... an interesting idea... I have these COMBOARDs, see... and they have a 68000 processor on board, and either a COM5025 or a Z8530 serial chip. I seriously doubt that the processor could keep the line fed much faster than 128kbps or 256kbps (99% of our customers needed 9600 - 56/64k), at least it has a DMA interface on the VAX side. The boards have between 128K and 2MB of DRAM, plus 16K - 128K of ROM (and are designed to get their application into RAM from a file on the VAX)... I think there's everything there except the app to make them into HDLC IP conduits... I might have to fiddle with that a bit when I get back. I'd been thinking of a way to make these guys talk IDE or SCSI... to at least have _some_ practical use for them. -ethan From chenmel at earthlink.net Mon Dec 6 20:24:54 2004 From: chenmel at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Removing adhesives, was Re: Reel-to-reel... In-Reply-To: References: <00f201c4db15$88cf4e20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 14:09:23 -0800 (PST), you wrote: >On Sun, 5 Dec 2004, John Allain wrote: > >> >> Lighter fluid is often a good solvent for removing adhesive residue... >> >> > By far the best stuff I've ever used is "Goo-Gone"... >> >> Goo-Gone may have a limited shelf life since the two times I've >> tried it, off of two completely independent parties shelves, I found >> it vastly inferior to lighter fluid. From those two experiences I won't >> buy it. Im interested on a head-to-head comparison from a person >> on this list who has used both. >> >> John A. >> >> >> > >Cheaper (and somewhat less volatile) than lighter fluid is charcoal >starting fluid... > >Peter Wallace > Unless I'm mistaken, Lighter Fluid is just plain Naptha, which is far, far cheaper in a pint/quart can in the Paint thinner section of the hardware store than it is in the little squeeze bottle cans by the cigarette/pipe lighters in the Tobacco Shop. Scott From dvcorbin at optonline.net Mon Dec 6 20:52:07 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Suggested power for TU-56... Message-ID: Looking for suggestions on supplying the DC power to a TU-56..... From rcini at optonline.net Mon Dec 6 20:45:44 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Altait switch numbers Message-ID: <000201c4dc06$d9bd8fd0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Hello, all: Does anyone have an equivalient replacement part number for the Altair front panel switches? I was goung to grab my Digi-Key catalog but I thought I'd ask here first in case someone has this data handy. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From rcini at optonline.net Mon Dec 6 20:54:13 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Altair switch part numbers Message-ID: <000701c4dc08$0938c120$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> You know, I should learn to spell check first... I'm looking for replacement switches for the Altair front panel switches. Does anyone have these readily handy?? Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Dec 6 20:56:06 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: ping Fred N. van Kempen References: Message-ID: <003101c4dc08$4be9f750$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > Either that or he's been using the nose candy again :) Hey hey hey... uncalled for. Jay From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 6 21:28:48 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Suggested power for TU-56... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40660.64.139.41.130.1102390128.squirrel@64.139.41.130> David Corbin wrote: > Looking for suggestions on supplying the DC power to a TU-56..... You need +5V at 0.8A and -15V at 0.8A, both regulated to +/- 10%. (You can optionally use +10V at 0.8A instead of +5V, with suitable wiring.) It should be easy to find a surplus triple-output power supply with +5 and +/-15V, and simply not use the -15V output. New, these cost around $70-80. It may be easier and/or less expensive to use separate 5V and 10V power supplies. For instance, Digikey has wall-wart style switchers that are suitable: T920-P5P 5.0V 2.4A $14.03 each T924-P5P 15.0V 1.0A $14.03 each Since they are isolated (as all common AC-to-DC power supplies are), you can use them as positive or negative supplies. Eric From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 6 21:36:00 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Dont ask where I got that source ;-) Ok. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 6 21:37:55 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: ping Fred N. van Kempen In-Reply-To: <003101c4dc08$4be9f750$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Dec 2004, Jay West wrote: > > Either that or he's been using the nose candy again :) > > Hey hey hey... uncalled for. It's OK, he's from Amsterdam. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Dec 7 01:49:52 2004 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Auction: Acclaim Entertainment, Inc. Message-ID: I guess this confirms the rumor of Acclaim going belly up... I just received an auction notification for Acclaim Entertainment in Austin, Texas. I don't know if there will be any classiccmp related bits for sale, but I thought at the very least folks here would want to know about it. Inspection/Preview is Dec 13th, and the auction is on the 14th and 15th. This looks like a huge auction compared to some of the large foreclosure auctions I've been to in Texas. See http://www.flsauction.com/ and http://www.shattuck.com/ for more info. -Toth From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Tue Dec 7 04:37:20 2004 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Any former Philips/Magnavox VideoWriter users/owners/hackers? Message-ID: <1102415840.31748.210247095@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hi all! I was just wondering if we happen to have any former Philips/Magnavox VideoWriter users/owners/hackers in the house? David M. Vohs Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian Computer Collection: "Triumph": Commodore 64, 1802, 1541, Indus GT, FDD-1, GeoRAM 512, MPS-801. "Leela": Original Apple Macintosh, Imagewriter II. "Delorean": TI-99/4A, TI Speech Synthesizer. "Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer III. "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. "Boombox": Sharp PC-7000. "Butterfly": Tandy 200, PDD-2. "Shapeshifter": Epson QX-10, Comrex HDD, Titan graphics/MS-DOS board. "Scout": Otrona Attache. (prospective) "Pioneer": Apple LISA II (prospective) "Mercury": HP-85. (prospective) "Evolver": Commodore Amiga 2000 "TMA-1": Atari Portfolio, Memory Expander + From wmaddox at pacbell.net Tue Dec 7 05:53:46 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Intel ISPC/2 on eBay, ship or local pickup in Springfield, MO Message-ID: <41B599CA.60309@pacbell.net> This looks like a cool toy. And in my own (former) hometown, even... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5144666359&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT eBay item 5144666359 (Ends Dec-08-04 17:27:12 PST) - Vintage Intel IPSC/2 Concurrent Computer System UMR --Bill From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Dec 7 07:09:32 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: class X supression caps Message-ID: <1102424972.8544.23.camel@weka.localdomain> A lot of class X1 supression caps seem to be self-destructing in vintage equipment these days. I've got one in my NCR needing replacement, plus we have an HP 3000, two Apple Lisas and an Apple /// all needing them too... (they don't half smoke when they let go too :) Looking around, it seems that everywhere these days sells class X2 caps, and Y2(X1) caps. What's the modern-day replacement for a dead X1 cap? X2, Y2(X1), or something else entirely? I'm sure I've seen Y2 caps in old equipment as being a different thing to X1, which is why I'm getting confused if they're now classed as the same! (Anyone have a source for 0.68uF X1 caps in the UK? Seems to be a very uncommon value for supression caps - everyone does 0.47uF and then 1uF) ta Jules From allain at panix.com Mon Dec 6 20:45:43 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Removing adhesives, was Re: Reel-to-reel... References: <00f201c4db15$88cf4e20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <001a01c4dc06$d95bc0c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Unless I'm mistaken, Lighter Fluid is just plain Naptha, which is far, > far cheaper in a pint/quart can in the Paint thinner section of the > hardware store than it is in the little squeeze bottle cans by the > cigarette/pipe lighters in the Tobacco Shop*. *or Hardware store. Still, I consume less than 1?/day. What, is Everybody on this list an eBay reseller??? John A. From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Dec 7 09:02:19 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Suggested power for TU-56... References: <40660.64.139.41.130.1102390128.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: <16821.50683.624000.34568@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Eric" == Eric Smith writes: Eric> David Corbin wrote: >> Looking for suggestions on supplying the DC power to a TU-56..... Eric> You need +5V at 0.8A and -15V at 0.8A, both regulated to +/- Eric> 10%. (You can optionally use +10V at 0.8A instead of +5V, with Eric> suitable wiring.) Eric> It should be easy to find a surplus triple-output power supply Eric> with +5 and +/-15V, and simply not use the -15V output. New, Eric> these cost around $70-80. Eric> It may be easier and/or less expensive to use separate 5V and Eric> 10V power supplies. For instance, Digikey has wall-wart style Eric> switchers that are suitable: Eric> T920-P5P 5.0V 2.4A $14.03 each T924-P5P 15.0V 1.0A $14.03 each Eric> Since they are isolated (as all common AC-to-DC power supplies Eric> are), you can use them as positive or negative supplies. If you use a switcher, make sure the minimum load current is suitable. Linear supplies work with no load, but switchers often do not. In that case, a load resistor can help. Also: DEC usually quoted +/- 10% on power supplies, but in reality that wasn't necessarily true. It's good to assume +10, -0% tolerance. I know for a fact that DMC11s require that for reliable operation. paul From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Dec 7 09:00:00 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Removing adhesives, was Re: Reel-to-reel... In-Reply-To: <001a01c4dc06$d95bc0c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <00f201c4db15$88cf4e20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <001a01c4dc06$d95bc0c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041207085919.05791ad0@pc> At 08:45 PM 12/6/2004, John Allain wrote: >*or Hardware store. Still, I consume less than 1?/day. >What, is Everybody on this list an eBay reseller??? Buy low, sell high. It's the only way to fuel a habit. - John From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Dec 7 09:47:27 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: DEC TZ885 mini-library (nearly OT :) Message-ID: <25051.80.242.32.51.1102434447.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> Folks, We've got 3 of these things in for repair and we're a bit stuffed without troubleshooting docs. The userguide is on the web but it's as useless as this - *holds up useless thing* - and we need the means of interpreting some of the hex codes they're chucking at us. Anyone got any other docs? TIA -- adrian/witchy Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UKs biggest home computer collection? From lists at microvax.org Tue Dec 7 10:31:08 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie lists) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Norsk Data Message-ID: Hi, I was wondering if anybody knew of any Norsk Data emulators - specifically i'm interested in an ND-10 emulator. cheers! alex/melt From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Tue Dec 7 11:47:48 2004 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Any former Philips/Magnavox VideoWriter users/owners/hackers? In-Reply-To: <1102415840.31748.210247095@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <1C0D1E12-4878-11D9-B154-000A9586BBB0@bluewin.ch> Am dinsdag, 07.12.04, um 11:37 Uhr (Europe/Zurich) schrieb David Vohs: > Hi all! I was just wondering if we happen to have any former > Philips/Magnavox VideoWriter users/owners/hackers in the house? > David M. Vohs > Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian probably not, but I have schematics ( somewhere...) Jos From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Dec 7 12:04:43 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Norsk Data In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1102442683.8990.13.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 16:31 +0000, meltie lists wrote: > Hi, I was wondering if anybody knew of any Norsk Data emulators - > specifically i'm interested in an ND-10 emulator. Nope, but we should be getting that ND-100 sometime soon; I've got a feeling you're not too far from the museum, so if you fancy a project... :-) From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Dec 7 12:15:11 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: ARS33 ? motor on eBay Message-ID: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=71400&item=3857491456&rd=1 Teletype model 402402 dual speed - 1 day left, no bids - starts at .99 Cheers John From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Dec 7 12:19:40 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Reseating QFP-socketed chips Message-ID: <1102443580.8924.21.camel@weka.localdomain> Anyone else find that QFP-socketed chips in late 80's / early 90's equipment are *really* prone to corroding and needing re-seating? I've just had to re-seat several on this NCR Tower which were the cause of all sorts of problems - yet I don't normally find that DIL chips need any re-seating on equipment of this sort of age. (I *think* QFP's the proper name - commonly used for 80186 / 80188 / 80286 chips, which have flat leads underneath the device) Anyway, I now have a working NCR machine that chucks out more heat than a small furnace and makes the lights go dim :-) (well, almost!) cheers Jules From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Dec 7 12:42:00 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Reseating QFP-socketed chips Message-ID: <200412071842.KAA09577@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jules Richardson" > > >Anyone else find that QFP-socketed chips in late 80's / early 90's >equipment are *really* prone to corroding and needing re-seating? > >I've just had to re-seat several on this NCR Tower which were the cause >of all sorts of problems - yet I don't normally find that DIL chips need >any re-seating on equipment of this sort of age. > >(I *think* QFP's the proper name - commonly used for 80186 / 80188 / >80286 chips, which have flat leads underneath the device) > >Anyway, I now have a working NCR machine that chucks out more heat than >a small furnace and makes the lights go dim :-) (well, almost!) > >cheers > >Jules > > Hi As usual, I will note here the virtues of using DC#4 silicon grease on the contacts to improve conductivity and hold off corrosion. Dwight From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue Dec 7 13:24:39 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Reseating QFP-socketed chips In-Reply-To: <1102443580.8924.21.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1102443580.8924.21.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200412071424.39799.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Tuesday 07 December 2004 13:19, Jules Richardson wrote: > Anyone else find that QFP-socketed chips in late 80's / early 90's > equipment are *really* prone to corroding and needing re-seating? > > I've just had to re-seat several on this NCR Tower which were the > cause of all sorts of problems - yet I don't normally find that DIL > chips need any re-seating on equipment of this sort of age. > > (I *think* QFP's the proper name - commonly used for 80186 / 80188 / > 80286 chips, which have flat leads underneath the device) > > Anyway, I now have a working NCR machine that chucks out more heat > than a small furnace and makes the lights go dim :-) (well, almost!) QFP's are surface-mount (normally soldered down) devices, and PLCCs are probably what you're thinking of. I don't think i've had that problem with any of my machines, but, then again, I don't have a whole lot of stuff (which I use) that has PLCC parts in it. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Dec 7 13:31:45 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Reseating QFP-socketed chips In-Reply-To: <200412071424.39799.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <1102443580.8924.21.camel@weka.localdomain> <200412071424.39799.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <1102447905.8990.26.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 14:24 -0500, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > QFP's are surface-mount (normally soldered down) devices, and PLCCs are > probably what you're thinking of. I wasn't sure - don't PLCCs have the IC pins along the sides of the IC though, whilst QFPs have the flat pins on the underside of the IC? > I don't think i've had that problem with any of my machines, but, then > again, I don't have a whole lot of stuff (which I use) that has PLCC > parts in it. It just surprised me given the way that the ICs are clamped down so tightly - I didn't think there'd be a corrosion problem or any way for them to move arouns (as can happen with DIL ICs) cheers! Jules From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue Dec 7 13:51:00 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Reseating QFP-socketed chips In-Reply-To: <1102447905.8990.26.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1102443580.8924.21.camel@weka.localdomain> <200412071424.39799.pat@computer-refuge.org> <1102447905.8990.26.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200412071451.01008.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Tuesday 07 December 2004 14:31, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 14:24 -0500, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > QFP's are surface-mount (normally soldered down) devices, and PLCCs > > are probably what you're thinking of. > > I wasn't sure - don't PLCCs have the IC pins along the sides of the > IC though, whilst QFPs have the flat pins on the underside of the IC? No. This is a QFP: http://batronix.com/gif/package-qfp.gif I think I now know what you're talking about, and it's neither a PLCC or QFP. The 'chip' is ceramic, right? It might be an LCC: http://www.st.rim.or.jp/~nkomatsu/intel16over/80286.JPG Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Dec 7 13:56:31 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Reseating QFP-socketed chips In-Reply-To: <200412071451.01008.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <1102443580.8924.21.camel@weka.localdomain> <200412071424.39799.pat@computer-refuge.org> <1102447905.8990.26.camel@weka.localdomain> <200412071451.01008.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <1102449391.8990.29.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 14:51 -0500, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I think I now know what you're talking about, and it's neither a PLCC or > QFP. The 'chip' is ceramic, right? It might be an LCC: > > http://www.st.rim.or.jp/~nkomatsu/intel16over/80286.JPG that's the critter! :) Maybe they don't even sell them any more - I don't remember seeing any past the 80286. cheers Jules From brad at heeltoe.com Tue Dec 7 13:59:05 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: pdp-11 boot rom id's? & vtserver on an 11/44 In-Reply-To: Message from Jules Richardson of "Tue, 07 Dec 2004 19:31:45 GMT." <1102447905.8990.26.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200412071959.iB7Jx5vs012904@mwave.heeltoe.com> Two pdp-11/44 questions: Does anyone have a 'big list' of pdp-11 boot rom id's? (should probably be in the same place as a repository - is that being set up?) Also, has anyone tried to use vtserver on an 11/44? I don't think it can be done because the console 8085 catches "^P" and pops back into the console monitor. I suppose the right thing is to plug in a serial cable use the tu-58 emulator. But I don't think I have tu-58 proms. My one and only boot prom id's as 054021. And I have no idea what that is. I suppose I could hack server to use a second serial port. Blech. I guess I should just use the 9-track tape drive the way Ken Olsen intended and stop fooling around :-) -brad From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Tue Dec 7 14:03:54 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: <0412070103.AA13529@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <002d01c4dc97$e274bbd0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > *The only thing that I never understood is what the hell did > Cisco mean > by multicast or broadcast on a point-to-point link. I guess > it dates from > the days before people realised that a point-to-point link is > not a network Well there certainly were non-point-to-point synch implementations around: DEC DDCMP supports multi-drop links. > (no ARP, etc.) and does not need to burn up a net/subnet > number, and people > would map a net number (hopefully a /30 subnet) to each > point-to-point link. There's an RFC around somewhere that allows for /31 subnets for such purposes (.1 and .0 being allowed as the two ends). No idea if it ever caught on though. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Tue Dec 7 14:09:28 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: <0412070103.AA13529@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <002e01c4dc98$a90d0900$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > It's the simplest and IMO the best framing format for IP over > a sync line, > I've used it on T1s (well, fractional T1 since DSV11 is > limited to 256 kbps), > and it comes from Cisco. Nearly missed this bit. The DSV-11 was rated at 256kbps but it can actually do either a tiny smidgen over (or a tiny smidgen under) 1Mbps on a worst case HDLC sequence, essentially forever. There was no supported service around that speed (I think the UK Megastream was 1.024Mbps) so it was sold as 256kbps. Feel free to overclock it - it should handle it just fine! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Tue Dec 7 14:14:45 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: DEC TZ885 mini-library (nearly OT :) In-Reply-To: <25051.80.242.32.51.1102434447.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <002f01c4dc99$6671d660$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > We've got 3 of these things in for repair and we're a bit > stuffed without > troubleshooting docs. The userguide is on the web but it's as > useless as > this - *holds up useless thing* - and we need the means of > interpreting > some of the hex codes they're chucking at us. In my *extrememly* limited experience, all the codes mean "the flipping leader's come off - put it back on". > Anyone got any other docs? I did make the TZ87 (or TZ877?) service manual available and Manx will find it. The above comment applies here too :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From tomj at wps.com Tue Dec 7 14:52:12 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:12 2005 Subject: Removing adhesives, was Re: Reel-to-reel... In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041207085919.05791ad0@pc> References: <00f201c4db15$88cf4e20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <001a01c4dc06$d95bc0c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <6.2.0.14.2.20041207085919.05791ad0@pc> Message-ID: At 08:45 PM 12/6/2004, John Allain wrote: >What, is Everybody on this list an eBay reseller??? Huh?! -- are you implying that there are people who are NOT?! From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Dec 7 14:58:36 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Suggested power for TU-56... In-Reply-To: <16821.50683.624000.34568@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <40660.64.139.41.130.1102390128.squirrel@64.139.41.130> <16821.50683.624000.34568@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <45057.64.139.41.130.1102453116.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Paul wrote: > If you use a switcher, make sure the minimum load current is > suitable. Linear supplies work with no load, but switchers often do > not. In that case, a load resistor can help. The Cui switchers I recommended have a minimum load current spec of 0.0A, so it won't be a problem. The TU56 will easily present enough load for any switchers that aren't rated for a LOT of amps. If you try to use a 5V 100A supply, you may be asking for trouble. > Also: DEC usually quoted +/- 10% on power supplies, but in reality > that wasn't necessarily true. It's good to assume +10, -0% > tolerance. I know for a fact that DMC11s require that for > reliable operation. Nothing in the TU56 will be that finicky. The supplies I recommended are rated at +/- 5% tolerance and will work fine. Eric From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Dec 7 15:02:40 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: <002d01c4dc97$e274bbd0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <200412072120.iB7LKSjd029133@huey.classiccmp.org> > > dates from the days before people realised that a > point-to-point link > > is not a network > > Well there certainly were non-point-to-point synch implementations > around: DEC DDCMP supports multi-drop links. I'm coming late into this one, but isn't a Cisco serial link (ie frame relay or X21) point to point and also multi-drop? > There's an RFC around somewhere that allows for /31 subnets > for such purposes (.1 and .0 being allowed as the two ends). > No idea if it ever caught on though. Eep, I'm just getting used to /30, don't complicate things :) cheers w From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Dec 7 15:06:09 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: DEC TZ885 mini-library (nearly OT :) In-Reply-To: <002f01c4dc99$6671d660$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <200412072123.iB7LNtjd029230@huey.classiccmp.org> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Antonio Carlini > Sent: 07 December 2004 20:15 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: RE: DEC TZ885 mini-library (nearly OT :) > > In my *extrememly* limited experience, all the codes mean > "the flipping leader's come off - put it back on". These libraries are either extremely confused or extremely knackered; it seems like they never do an actual hardware reset at powerup, just carry on where they left off. I've found some button combinations that allow you to view diagnostics as long as the robot isn't going nuts (rare) but I haven't found which button actually selects said test or function. Also, 2 of them don't open the drive door when expected so the tape bounces off repeatedly until the robot gives up.... > I did make the TZ87 (or TZ877?) service manual available and > Manx will find it. The above comment applies here too :-) I'll have a nose after CSI Miami :o) cheers w From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Dec 7 15:04:43 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: PDP-11/45 Message-ID: <00d001c4dca0$63058240$033310ac@HPLAPTOP> At long last I've decided I've gotten enough HP systems restored, so I'm turning my attention to one of my other systems that's been rescued but not restored - a PDP-11/45. Yes, I'm going over to the dark side ;) I've scrounged the web looking for sites where a /45 has been restored for tidbits, advice, etc. and found Guy's site to be a good intro on the refurbish process and what to expect. It would appear my /45 is extremely minimally configured, no I/O cards, and only 4k or 8k of core. It's in pretty sorry shape I must say, but definitely restorable at least from a cosmetic standpoint - we'll see about the functioning side of things. I wanted to ask if anyone would care to share any gotcha's that may not be obvious, specifically with regards to initial cleanup, inspection, and testing. I'd really like to convert the thing from core to semiconductor memory, and hopefully get an RL02 up on it. One thing specifically I wanted to ask applies to many systems not just my /45. What have most of you found to be good for working with scratches or gouges in painted metal? I'm thinking like the side panels of the H960 cabinet, etc. I'm not into painting really but was considering using an airbrush to touch up lots of scratches and perhaps blending the new paint in with the old areas. Perhaps this would come out worse? Exactly what kind of paint should I get, can I have a paint dealer reliably scan existing surfaces with their color cameras to generate the correct hue? Suggestions? Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Dec 7 15:13:32 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: DEC TZ885 mini-library (nearly OT :) In-Reply-To: <200412072123.iB7LNtjd029230@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200412072123.iB7LNtjd029230@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <1102454012.8990.32.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 21:06 +0000, Adrian Graham wrote: > These libraries are either extremely confused or extremely knackered; it > seems like they never do an actual hardware reset at powerup, just carry on > where they left off. I've found some button combinations that allow you to > view diagnostics as long as the robot isn't going nuts (rare) but I haven't > found which button actually selects said test or function. Also, 2 of them > don't open the drive door when expected so the tape bounces off repeatedly > until the robot gives up.... you need to treat them to a bit of this: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/electricstuff/esd.html :-) From technobug at comcast.net Tue Dec 7 15:25:11 2004 From: technobug at comcast.net (CRC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Removing adhesives, was Re: Reel-to-reel tape decks (was: Re: ZX81 denigrated!) In-Reply-To: <200412071800.iB7I04je027672@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200412071800.iB7I04je027672@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <7A06F7AA-4896-11D9-A845-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 John Foust commented: > At 12:25 PM 12/6/2004, Roger Merchberger wrote: >>> Goo Gone comes in a plastic bottle, Goof Off is more harsh >>> and comes in a can. As did "lighter fluid", it's naptha cousin. >> >> Huh? AFAIK, lighter fluid *is* naptha -- > > Yes, but Goof Off may be naptha plus something else. > > - John For contents see (for the Valspar products you need a UPC code to get the corresponding data sheet). In the US, all chemical product require a published Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) which have all the active ingredients... CRC From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Dec 7 15:39:08 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: pdp-11 boot rom id's? & vtserver on an 11/44 In-Reply-To: Brad Parker "pdp-11 boot rom id's? & vtserver on an 11/44" (Dec 7, 14:59) References: <200412071959.iB7Jx5vs012904@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <10412072139.ZM13795@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 7 2004, 14:59, Brad Parker wrote: > > Does anyone have a 'big list' of pdp-11 boot rom id's? (should probably > be in the same place as a repository - is that being set up?) I'm happy to keep PROM images beside the ROM images (mostly QBus) that I already have; unfortunately my PROM programmer is being uncooperative at the moment (or rather, I think the PC to which it's attached is misbehaving). If anyone wishes to contribute, feel free to email me :-) The only two relevant files I have online at the moment are a list of the PROMs I know about, and the pinouts of the common types: http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/DECPROMs/ -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From quapla at xs4all.nl Tue Dec 7 16:02:48 2004 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (quapla@xs4all.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: pdp-11 boot rom id's? & vtserver on an 11/44 In-Reply-To: <200412071959.iB7Jx5vs012904@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: Message from Jules Richardson of "Tue, 07 Dec 2004 19:31:45 GMT." <1102447905.8990.26.camel@weka.localdomain> <200412071959.iB7Jx5vs012904@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <4438.62.177.191.201.1102456968.squirrel@62.177.191.201> Hi, This is a list from the M9312 manual, it is afaik the complete list. Ed First device ROM Second device Console emulator 23-248F1 RL01/02 23-751A9 RK06/07 23-752A9 RX01 23-753A9 RP02/03 23-755A9 RP04/05/06 RM02/03 RK03/05 23-756A9 TU55/56 TU16/TE16 23-757A9 TU10/TE10/TS03 23-758A9 RS03/04 23-759A9 PC05 23-760A9 DL11-A/W TU60 23-761A9 RX02 23-811A9 TS04 23-764A9 ?? 23-765A9 RDxx/RAxx 23-767A9 Diagnostics(?) 23-616F1 I have all except the 753A9. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Dec 7 16:41:27 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041207174127.007d0ce0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Actually I picked up two of them. They're HP graphics terminals with dual tape drives. One of these has a HP-IB port in it. What's that for? They're both marked that they have options 007 and 032. Anybody know what those are? Anyboy have a pointer to a manual for them. Also spotted a rack mount box that's marked HP 5478C. I looked through a bunch of HP catalogs but couldn't find it in any of them. Does anyone know what it is? The front of it is blank except for three LEDS marked power(?), Trigger and DAC so I'm guessing that it's some kind of D/A unit but it's darned big for that. Joe From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Dec 7 16:40:52 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: pdp-11 boot rom id's? & vtserver on an 11/44 In-Reply-To: quapla@xs4all.nl "Re: pdp-11 boot rom id's? & vtserver on an 11/44" (Dec 7, 23:02) References: Message from Jules Richardson of "Tue 07 Dec 2004 19:31:45 GMT." <1102447905.8990.26.camel@weka.localdomain> <200412071959.iB7Jx5vs012904@mwave.heeltoe.com> <4438.62.177.191.201.1102456968.squirrel@62.177.191.201> Message-ID: <10412072240.ZM13898@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 7 2004, 23:02, quapla@xs4all.nl wrote: > This is a list from the M9312 manual, it is afaik the complete list. The flat text file on my website is about twice that size :-) And you've got some that aren't on that list, Ed, in your 11/70. > I have all except the 753A9. I have at least one of those. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Dec 7 16:46:16 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? References: <3.0.6.32.20041207174127.007d0ce0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <004c01c4dcae$8fdd4600$033310ac@HPLAPTOP> Let me know if you want to trade one of them away Joe, I've been looking for a 264x terminal for some time! Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "Bob Shannon" ; Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 4:41 PM Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? > Actually I picked up two of them. They're HP graphics terminals with > dual tape drives. One of these has a HP-IB port in it. What's that for? > They're both marked that they have options 007 and 032. Anybody know what > those are? Anyboy have a pointer to a manual for them. > > Also spotted a rack mount box that's marked HP 5478C. I looked through a > bunch of HP catalogs but couldn't find it in any of them. Does anyone know > what it is? The front of it is blank except for three LEDS marked > power(?), Trigger and DAC so I'm guessing that it's some kind of D/A unit > but it's darned big for that. > > Joe > > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Dec 7 16:57:05 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? In-Reply-To: <004c01c4dcae$8fdd4600$033310ac@HPLAPTOP> References: <3.0.6.32.20041207174127.007d0ce0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041207175705.0079e430@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> What do you want to trade? :-) I can probably get rid of one of these. One has a spotted screen but there's a third one out there that's apart and I was already planning on grabbing it. Except for the one screen these both look good and have a s&*(load of cards in them. Also got the keyboards and they're both fine. However the capstans in the tape drives have all melted (what else is new?) Do you know what option 007 and 032 are? Do you have a manual for them? I couldn't find anything on Al's site. Joe At 04:46 PM 12/7/04 -0600, you wrote: >Let me know if you want to trade one of them away Joe, I've been looking for >a 264x terminal for some time! > >Jay >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe R." >To: "Bob Shannon" ; >Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 4:41 PM >Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? > > >> Actually I picked up two of them. They're HP graphics terminals with >> dual tape drives. One of these has a HP-IB port in it. What's that for? >> They're both marked that they have options 007 and 032. Anybody know what >> those are? Anyboy have a pointer to a manual for them. >> >> Also spotted a rack mount box that's marked HP 5478C. I looked through a >> bunch of HP catalogs but couldn't find it in any of them. Does anyone know >> what it is? The front of it is blank except for three LEDS marked >> power(?), Trigger and DAC so I'm guessing that it's some kind of D/A unit >> but it's darned big for that. >> >> Joe >> >> >> > > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 7 19:20:27 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: PDP-11/45 In-Reply-To: <00d001c4dca0$63058240$033310ac@HPLAPTOP> from "Jay West" at Dec 7, 4 03:04:43 pm Message-ID: > > At long last I've decided I've gotten enough HP systems restored, so I'm > turning my attention to one of my other systems that's been rescued but not > restored - a PDP-11/45. Yes, I'm going over to the dark side ;) Good luck!. My first 'serious' minicomputer was an 11/45, and it took me several months to get it going. Now, there were many reasons for this : 1) I had little experience of such machines, I was learning a lot all the time (which was good!). 2) I take things slowly and carefully 3) I had the printset, an instruction set listing, and not a lot else. Figuring out things like grant continuity from those alone took some work! 4) I didn't have this list to turn to :-) 5) I am somewhat stupid! Personally, I'd check the PSUs first (seriously, there are over 1000 chips in the the processor alone, you don't want to wipe them all out in one go!). Then run a minimal configuration (you cna pull the floating point processor boards without problem, don't pull the KW11-L line time clock, since there's a grant link you'd have to wire-wrap back again, also you can't pull the MMU unless you have the address buffer board that goes in place of one of the MMU boards). But run the processor, MMU (if you have it), some memory, and nothing else. Toggle in a simple program on the panel, get it to run that. Then add more memory and peripherals. Keep checking the PSU voltages -- I've had all sorts of problems caused by one of them being low. A few more things. Unless you're doing something seriously weird, you want a M9200 jumper (it's electrtically an M920, but thinner!) between slots 26AB and 27AB of the CPU backplane. Connectors C-F of slots 26, 27, 28 are normal SPC slots, you should put grant continuity cards in there if you don't have peripherals. Slot 28AB is the Unibus out (of course), put a terminator in there if you have no more backplanes. The front terminator goes in 1AB. Slot 1E and 1F are for KM11 maintenance boards. You need at least one of these IMHO! > testing. I'd really like to convert the thing from core to semiconductor > memory, and hopefully get an RL02 up on it. The 'proper' semiconductor RAM that goes in the CPU backplane is hard to find!. I put a normal MUD RAM card in an expansion backplane. Works fine Adding the RL11 is no problem at all. -tony From vcf at siconic.com Tue Dec 7 20:02:30 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Power supply dead? Message-ID: I've got one of them TI Silent 700 Model 703 portable data terminals. The external power supply that comes with it is 20VAC. It's got three conductors on the connector. I can't get any voltage out of it. Is it dead? Or is it that it needs to sense a loop or something across all pins before it starts emitting juice? Not likely, I'm sure, but I thought I'd ask before I start tearing this apart to see if it has an internal fuse. Any ideas? Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Dec 7 20:13:49 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: PDP-11/45 In-Reply-To: <00d001c4dca0$63058240$033310ac@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: > One thing specifically I wanted to ask applies to many systems not just my > /45. What have most of you found to be good for working with scratches or > gouges in painted metal? A serious issue, at least to some of us. I have a few machines that have some serious sheet metal problems. I think thet best we can hope for is to hide the scars. > I'm thinking like the side panels of the H960 > cabinet, etc. I'm not into painting really but was considering using an > airbrush to touch up lots of scratches and perhaps blending the new paint in > with the old areas. Perhaps this would come out worse? Exactly what kind of > paint should I get, can I have a paint dealer reliably scan existing > surfaces with their color cameras to generate the correct hue? Suggestions? I have had a decent amount of success with "splattercoat" finishes - the kinds we see on almost all old computer skins. It is actually pretty easy to do, just don't rush. I don't use an airbrush. I have one from my model painting days, but I don't use it. I have found that airbrushing a section may work fine from a stright on view, but almost invariably at an angle, the patched section tends to stick out. Unless you are very skilled with an airbrush, getting a matching finish to the original is really difficult. I tend to fix scratches in the paint using just the right amount of paint. Most dings are quite small, so any mismatch in the finish is minor, and easily overlooked by casual viewing. Splattercoats can be very effectively patched, if you want to put in the time. Look at a bit of the original finish - you will see somewhat random blobs of paint "buried" under the outer surface. Recreating these simply involves building up matching random bumps of paint. To do this properly, use some of the sludge found on the bottom of an unmixed jar of paint (keep in mind to use the same, or similar, color of the finish coat). I use a toothpick and a metal pin to build them up. You may have to do several applications to get the bumps the right texture. Remember, most of the volume of the liquid paint you apply will go away. After the bumps are satisfactory, wait as long as you can to apply the finish coats. I tend to like to use rather thin finish coats, so I want the bumps to be as hard as I can get. Once again, I use a toothpick, or maybe even a small brush. I use oil based model paints - specifically the nasty stuff the railroad geeks use. Some of the other paints have been dumbed down quite a bit, so I stay away. Testors, in the little bottles, used to be great, but no longer can be found. I fear that eventually even the good railroad model paint will go away. Of course, any halfway decent painter will tell you preparation is %90 of the game. Still true - be sure to have the wounds in the panels clean and rust free, and if possible, even roughed up a little. Primer wouldn't hurt either. Color matching is a problem. I do it by eye, and can get damn close. If you do this method, expect to ruin some paint. In fact, you may waste a huge amount of paint, compared to how much you use. Lots of trila and error. So there you have it. Just remember, it takes time to do a good job - it can take a week to fix a small scratch properly. Each day of work may only have a few minutes of work in it, but the results will probably suprise you. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From dancohoe at oxford.net Tue Dec 7 20:30:27 2004 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041207174127.007d0ce0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000801c4dccd$e1aa0940$6401a8c0@dcohoe> > >From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe R. >Sent: December 7, 2004 5:41 PM >To: Bob Shannon; cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? >Importance: High > Actually I picked up two of them. They're HP graphics terminals with >dual tape drives. One of these has a HP-IB port in it. What's that for? >They're both marked that they have options 007 and 032. Anybody know what >those are? Anyboy have a pointer to a manual for them. ........ > Joe Two weeks ago while digging through a bunch of plastic bags of material to be recycled at a local university dumpster I found the reference manual for these things! I hope my luck with not being arrested and charged with theft holds up a while longer. Option 007 is the "Integrated Dual Cartridge Tape - Mini Data Station" The option list in the manual only goes to option 030. There are many built in accessories possible. They should be shown on a sticker next to the main label above the power cord receptacle. They appear all to be in the series 132xx. I'll scan the manual as soon as I can get to it. Dan Cohoe From sethm at loomcom.com Tue Dec 7 20:46:36 2004 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Shipping heavy equipment Message-ID: <41B66B0C.70907@loomcom.com> Well here's a fine mess I've gotten myself into... I need to ship a MicroVAX 3800 (BA213 case, about 110 pounds, give or take) to Pennsylvania. Granted, it's no 11/780, but it's certainly bigger than I've ever shipped before. Does anyone have any suggestions about the cheapest way to do this? (Hopefully one that will also ensure that the beast gets there in one piece, of course!) For reference, dimensions on a BA213 are approx. 14" by 20" by 26". -Seth From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Dec 7 21:04:18 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Shipping heavy equipment In-Reply-To: <41B66B0C.70907@loomcom.com> References: <41B66B0C.70907@loomcom.com> Message-ID: <50236.64.139.41.130.1102475058.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Seth wrote: > Does anyone have any suggestions about the cheapest way to do this? > For reference, dimensions on a BA213 are approx. 14" by 20" by 26". Ideally you would crate it, but it may be OK to put it on a pallet, secure it to the pallet somehow, and wrap it with some padding then cling-wrap. Securing it to the pallet may be a bit tricky since the BA213 has casters. Either way, you then need to send it via a freight company. If you can take it to a major airport, and if the recipient can pick it up from one, you might get a good deal from Forward Air: http://www.forwardair.com/ From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Dec 7 21:34:17 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Shipping heavy equipment In-Reply-To: <41B66B0C.70907@loomcom.com> References: <41B66B0C.70907@loomcom.com> Message-ID: 110 pounds - it's not *that* big. It can go FedEx (149 pound limit for regular FedEx) as well as UPS - but that would be "pricey". You might check out the USPS - if it was packed well, and within the "length+girth" bullshit that they use. (Have you considered disassembling it partially and using more than one box?) Then there's my current favorite, BAX Global, who are usually much less than FedEx for the same package to the same address. If you do a bit of homework, you might be able to come up with some competitive rates, but it ain't gonna be cheap, no matter what. And if you go with FedEx or UPS, be aware that they're raising their rates right after the first of the year. Cheers John From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Dec 7 21:52:08 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? In-Reply-To: <000801c4dccd$e1aa0940$6401a8c0@dcohoe> References: <3.0.6.32.20041207174127.007d0ce0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041207225208.007cec80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:30 PM 12/7/04 -0500, you wrote: > > >> >>From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe R. >>Sent: December 7, 2004 5:41 PM >>To: Bob Shannon; cctalk@classiccmp.org >>Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? >>Importance: High > > >> Actually I picked up two of them. They're HP graphics terminals with >>dual tape drives. One of these has a HP-IB port in it. What's that for? >>They're both marked that they have options 007 and 032. Anybody know what >>those are? Anyboy have a pointer to a manual for them. > > ........ > >> Joe > > >Two weeks ago while digging through a bunch of plastic bags of material to >be recycled at a local university dumpster I found the reference manual for >these things! I hope my luck with not being arrested and charged with theft >holds up a while longer. > >Option 007 is the "Integrated Dual Cartridge Tape - Mini Data Station" > >The option list in the manual only goes to option 030. > >There are many built in accessories possible. They should be shown on a >sticker next to the main label above the power cord receptacle. These are listed on a silver foil sticker inside the back door of the terminal. I didn't see any other markings except I think the SN was on a tag of it's own. They appear >all to be in the series 132xx. Yes, the catalog listed a bunch of 13xxx options. Things like Katakana, Cryllic, microcode programmable, etc. But I didn't see anything about HP-IB and I'm wondering if that might be what 032 is. I still have no idea why you'd want HP-IB on a terminal. > >I'll scan the manual as soon as I can get to it. That would be great. Can you E-mail me a copy after you do? I used to have a small manual for the 2644 (IIRC) but I don't know what ever became of it. Joe > >Dan Cohoe > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Dec 7 22:08:08 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Shipping heavy equipment In-Reply-To: References: <41B66B0C.70907@loomcom.com> Message-ID: <41B67E28.9010006@mdrconsult.com> John Lawson wrote: > > > 110 pounds - it's not *that* big. It can go FedEx (149 pound limit for > regular FedEx) as well as UPS - but that would be "pricey". A PDP-11/34 in the 10.5" cabinet, *very* solidly crated, cost $50 to ship from Phoenix AZ to Austin TX with ForwardAir. 192lb, and frigging BIG. Although I think the BA123 is bigger. I see their requirement that you deliver and pick up at their dock as an advantage. Most all shipping damage seems to happen between the dock and your door. They also refuse to insure or warranty *anything* that's not in wood, which is another big plus with me. It says "We Give a Shit." :) If you ship it on a pallet, ship it on its side. Doc From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Dec 7 22:08:37 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? References: <3.0.6.32.20041207174127.007d0ce0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041207225208.007cec80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <007b01c4dcdb$983c6560$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Joe wrote... > Yes, the catalog listed a bunch of 13xxx options. Things like Katakana, > Cryllic, microcode programmable, etc. But I didn't see anything about > HP-IB > and I'm wondering if that might be what 032 is. I still have no idea why > you'd want HP-IB on a terminal. Oh I can definitely think of a reason. The HP 2225C HP-IB Thinkjet printer. Many terminals had printer hookups.... Jay From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Dec 7 22:18:30 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Shipping heavy equipment In-Reply-To: References: <41B66B0C.70907@loomcom.com> Message-ID: > 110 pounds - it's not *that* big. It can go FedEx (149 pound limit >for regular FedEx) as well as UPS - but that would be "pricey". Actually if you pull the power supplies, and all the boards, then ship the boards in one carefully packed box, and the power supplies in another, you might be able to get the weight of the BA213 down to the point where shipping it wouldn't be to expensive. I think the magical weight point for UPS is 70 or 80 pounds, not sure what the size (dimensions) limit is. Once you hit that magical limit, it gets very spendy to ship using them. Breaking the package up can be a big help. OTOH, there is definitely something to be said for properly crating the system shipping it by someone that specializes in transporting large heavy objects. The downside is that the shipping is likely to cost more than the unit is worth. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From allain at panix.com Tue Dec 7 10:28:28 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Shipping heavy equipment References: <41B66B0C.70907@loomcom.com> Message-ID: <004001c4dc79$c9295820$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > (BA213 case, about 110 pounds, give or take) My large shipping experience (to another lister) involved a trip to Home Depot for smallcell semihard wall insulating foam. Makes a great inside the crate shock absorber and is cheap enough at the Home Depot scale. Of course while you are there you get the rest of the crating materials: Plywood, 2x4, nails/screws. John A. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 7 22:30:45 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Power supply dead? In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Dec 7, 4 06:02:30 pm Message-ID: > > > I've got one of them TI Silent 700 Model 703 portable data terminals. The > external power supply that comes with it is 20VAC. It's got three > conductors on the connector. I can't get any voltage out of it. Is it > dead? > > Or is it that it needs to sense a loop or something across all pins before > it starts emitting juice? Not likely, I'm sure, but I thought I'd ask I would eb very suprised.... An AC-output PSU is most likely just a transformer. At the risk of 'teaching grandma to suck eggs', cna I just check that you're using the AC range on your multimeter (VOM, whatever you call it)? If you're using a DC range, it will most likely read zero. Also, with the unit unplugged from the mains, can you measure the resistance betweenn the pins on the output plug (I would expect at least 2 of these to show a low resistance between them [1]) and between the live and neutral pins of the mains plug (again, a finite resistance due to the transformer primary winding). [1] 3 pins suggests either the 3 connections of a centre-tapped secondary winding, or a plain winding between 2 of the pins and mains earth ground on the thrid. FWIW, some HP printer power bricks have a 4 pin output connector, the 4 pins being mains earth and the 3 terminals of a centre-tapped secondary). > before I start tearing this apart to see if it has an internal fuse. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 7 22:37:29 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? In-Reply-To: <007b01c4dcdb$983c6560$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> from "Jay West" at Dec 7, 4 10:08:37 pm Message-ID: > > Oh I can definitely think of a reason. The HP 2225C HP-IB Thinkjet printer. > Many terminals had printer hookups.... Unless I'm mis-remmebring something, the 2225C has a cnetronics parallel interface. You meen the 2225A (HPIB). The 2225B is HPIL (and battery powered), the 2225D is RS232. I've had all of them across my bench at one time or another. The 2225A is odd. The CPU in the thinkjets has a built-in HPIL port (which is used in the normal way in a 2225B). The HPIB version has a lttle non-isolated HPIB-HPIL converter that llinks to said HPIL port. The version built into the Integral is really an HPIL version, with a 1LB3 HPIL chip to link it to the 68000 bus (again, with no isolating pulse transformers. The RS232 and Centronics models ignore the HPIL interface on the CPU chip, and have interface circuits connected to the processor data lines. The CPU firmware is therefore different. -tony From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Dec 7 23:37:56 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Shipping heavy equipment Message-ID: <1e.3a538f23.2ee7ed34@aol.com> In a message dated 12/7/2004 9:49:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, sethm@loomcom.com writes: Well here's a fine mess I've gotten myself into... I need to ship a MicroVAX 3800 (BA213 case, about 110 pounds, give or take) to Pennsylvania. Granted, it's no 11/780, but it's certainly bigger than I've ever shipped before. Does anyone have any suggestions about the cheapest way to do this? (Hopefully one that will also ensure that the beast gets there in one piece, of course!) For reference, dimensions on a BA213 are approx. 14" by 20" by 26". -Seth ----------++ If you have access to the shipping department of where you work, that's a big help. I do, and there's all kinds of pallets and packing options to choose from. One idea is to find a smaller size pallet than the standard 40x48 and use plastic or metal bands to secure it to the pallet and then plastic wrap and send it. Old server boxes and crates are great for reuse here. All you'd have to do then is carry to a DHL station or similar and do the paperwork. It's easier that what most people think. From tpeters at mixcom.com Tue Dec 7 23:42:09 2004 From: tpeters at mixcom.com (Tom Peters) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Shipping heavy equipment In-Reply-To: References: <41B66B0C.70907@loomcom.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041207234134.00bc64f0@localhost> Best to call/surf Freightquote.com Really. At 08:18 PM 12/7/2004 -0800, you wrote: >> 110 pounds - it's not *that* big. It can go FedEx (149 pound limit for >> regular FedEx) as well as UPS - but that would be "pricey". > >Actually if you pull the power supplies, and all the boards, then ship the >boards in one carefully packed box, and the power supplies in another, you >might be able to get the weight of the BA213 down to the point where >shipping it wouldn't be to expensive. I think the magical weight point >for UPS is 70 or 80 pounds, not sure what the size (dimensions) limit >is. Once you hit that magical limit, it gets very spendy to ship using >them. Breaking the package up can be a big help. > >OTOH, there is definitely something to be said for properly crating the >system shipping it by someone that specializes in transporting large heavy >objects. The downside is that the shipping is likely to cost more than >the unit is worth. > > Zane > > >-- >-- >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | >| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | >| | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | Tocqueville, Alexis de (1805-1859) There exists in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level, and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom. --... ...-- -.. . -. ----. --.- --.- -... tpeters@nospam.mixcom.com (remove "nospam") N9QQB (amateur radio) "HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB ADDRESS http//www.mixweb.com/tpeters 43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square EN53wc WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, Cisco Certified CCNA From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Dec 7 23:36:21 2004 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041207225208.007cec80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> (Joe R.'s message of "Tue, 07 Dec 2004 22:52:08 -0500") References: <3.0.6.32.20041207174127.007d0ce0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041207225208.007cec80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200412080536.iB85aLrG018510@lots.reanimators.org> Joe Rigdon wrote: > Yes, the catalog listed a bunch of 13xxx options. Things like Katakana, > Cryllic, microcode programmable, etc. But I didn't see anything about HP-IB > and I'm wondering if that might be what 032 is. I still have no idea why > you'd want HP-IB on a terminal. I don't know what option 032 is, but I used to have a 2648A w/HP-IB under my care at a previous employer. It was how the plotter (a 9872) was connected, and the office-automation graphics software on the HP3000 (DSG/3000, HPDRAW, EZCHART) knew how to use it. I remember writing some little hacks on the 3000 to send HP-GL to the plotter to make it do stuff (before we got HPDRAW &c on the 3000), but don't remember how they worked; I'm guessing the plotter is addressable as a device through a terminal escape sequence in much the same way as a printer or a cartridge tape drive. -Frank McConnell From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 8 00:13:23 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Power supply dead? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > I've got one of them TI Silent 700 Model 703 portable data terminals. The > > external power supply that comes with it is 20VAC. It's got three > > conductors on the connector. I can't get any voltage out of it. Is it > > dead? > > > > Or is it that it needs to sense a loop or something across all pins before > > it starts emitting juice? Not likely, I'm sure, but I thought I'd ask > > I would eb very suprised.... An AC-output PSU is most likely just a > transformer. That's what I'm saying! > At the risk of 'teaching grandma to suck eggs', cna I just check that > you're using the AC range on your multimeter (VOM, whatever you call it)? > If you're using a DC range, it will most likely read zero. I'm pretty sure I remembered to put it on AC since I'm thinking back to when I tested it and I can see an image of only two options, 20 and 200, and that particular VOM only has two option ranges for AC, so I must have had it set right. But just to be sure, I'll check again. > Also, with the unit unplugged from the mains, can you measure the > resistance betweenn the pins on the output plug (I would expect at least > 2 of these to show a low resistance between them [1]) and between the > live and neutral pins of the mains plug (again, a finite resistance due > to the transformer primary winding). I'll do that. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Wed Dec 8 01:04:45 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Norsk Data In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1102489485.25107.2.camel@fortran> On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 16:31 +0000, meltie lists wrote: > Hi, I was wondering if anybody knew of any Norsk Data emulators - > specifically i'm interested in an ND-10 emulator. I can top that, I have a real ND-10/S :) What do you want? When I get some docs any time now that tell me anything about the machine, I will probably dabble in the field of writing emulators :) Oh, and the -100 is backward-compatible with the -10, IIANM. > > cheers! > alex/melt > -- Tore S Bekkedal From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Wed Dec 8 01:37:14 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Norsk Data In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1102491434.25107.4.camel@fortran> On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 16:31 +0000, meltie lists wrote: > Hi, I was wondering if anybody knew of any Norsk Data emulators - > specifically i'm interested in an ND-10 emulator. > Incidentally I just stumbled across this! http://mail.haldens.net/NDemulator/ndemulator.htm > cheers! > alex/melt > -- Tore S Bekkedal From GOOI at oce.nl Wed Dec 8 01:41:04 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Any former Philips/Magnavox VideoWriter users/owners/hackers? Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A01113402@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Still, I have got one. At least if you are referring to the Philips "VideoWriter", the Philips 'wordprocessor' with the smallish rectangular CRT and a 3.5" floppy drive next to it. I bought such a unit (with keyboard) for 50 Euro (approx. $65) to use the CRT in my StarShip, so my intentions were not so good for it :-) However, the vertical size of the CRT is a bit too high; its width is perfect. So in the end I can not use the CRT in my StarShip and have a VodeoWriter in the attick. Never considered selling it because the weight would increase the costs with a factor 2 ... If I ever intend to do something with it, I now know where to get the electrical diagrams, Jos :-) - Henk, PA8PDP. > Am dinsdag, 07.12.04, um 11:37 Uhr (Europe/Zurich) schrieb David Vohs: > > > Hi all! I was just wondering if we happen to have any former > > Philips/Magnavox VideoWriter users/owners/hackers in the house? > > David M. Vohs > > Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian > > probably not, but I have schematics ( somewhere...) > > > Jos From quapla at xs4all.nl Wed Dec 8 03:19:48 2004 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (quapla@xs4all.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: pdp-11 boot rom id's? & vtserver on an 11/44 In-Reply-To: <10412072240.ZM13898@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: Message from Jules Richardson of "Tue 07 Dec 2004 19:31:45 GMT." <1102447905.8990.26.camel@weka.localdomain> <200412071959.iB7Jx5vs012904@mwave.heeltoe.com> <4438.62.177.191.201.1102456968.squirrel@62.177.191.201> <10412072240.ZM13898@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <18479.62.177.191.201.1102497588.squirrel@62.177.191.201> Hello Pete, > On Dec 7 2004, 23:02, quapla@xs4all.nl wrote: > >> This is a list from the M9312 manual, it is afaik the complete list. > > The flat text file on my website is about twice that size :-) And > you've got some that aren't on that list, Ed, in your 11/70. Yes, you're right there, saw your msg after I had posted mine, and the copy of the M9312 I used was not the latest one.... The 11/70 holds at the moment 2 boot ROMs, one for the RL02's and one for the RM03. Soon I have to insert the RK07 one as well. > >> I have all except the 753A9. I might actually have it too, but one of the ROMs has a scratched surface, and it might be this one. > > I have at least one of those. > Keep it, don't throw it away :) Ed From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Dec 8 07:21:44 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? In-Reply-To: <200412080536.iB85aLrG018510@lots.reanimators.org> References: <3.0.6.32.20041207174127.007d0ce0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041207225208.007cec80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200412080536.iB85aLrG018510@lots.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <1102512104.10215.9.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 21:36 -0800, Frank McConnell wrote: > I don't know what option 032 is, but I used to have a 2648A w/HP-IB > under my care at a previous employer. It was how the plotter (a 9872) > was connected, and the office-automation graphics software on the HP3000 > (DSG/3000, HPDRAW, EZCHART) knew how to use it. > That's a good point; I've seen such a plotter in some of the HP surplus I've been sorting through recently. Also a large digitiser which is presumably HP-IB. Lots of little thermal printers too, plus stacks of HP-80 series add-ons. I thought it was all going to be a pile of junk, but there was some really nice stuff in there - will try and get a list together this weekend (this is where I unearthed the 2115A too) > I remember writing some little hacks on the 3000 to send HP-GL to the > plotter to make it do stuff (before we got HPDRAW &c on the 3000), but > don't remember how they worked; I might be looking for some HP3000 software if anyone out there has any. We hooked one up the other day and so far it seems to be working (it was only intended as a static exhibit!) so making it *do* something is an option. I've only seen alignment packs for the drives so far, and nothing on tape though. I confess to being totally ignorant about HP stuff! :-) cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Dec 8 07:22:24 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1102512144.10215.11.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-12-08 at 04:37 +0000, Tony Duell wrote: > I've had all of them across my bench at one time or another. that sounds borderline pornographic ;-) From pcw at mesanet.com Wed Dec 8 12:33:05 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Card punch? In-Reply-To: <1C0D1E12-4878-11D9-B154-000A9586BBB0@bluewin.ch> Message-ID: http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=498212&convertTo=USD Peter Wallace From stanb at dial.pipex.com Wed Dec 8 13:19:39 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: IBM 5363 on eBay Message-ID: <200412081919.TAA31234@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, As above on UK eBay: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5736962967&rd=1 Is this interesting enough to put a bid in? I know absolutely *nothing* about 'em... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From brad at heeltoe.com Wed Dec 8 13:38:40 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: pdp-11 boot rom id's? & vtserver on an 11/44 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 07 Dec 2004 23:02:48 +0100." <4438.62.177.191.201.1102456968.squirrel@62.177.191.201> Message-ID: <200412081938.iB8JceFG007743@mwave.heeltoe.com> quapla@xs4all.nl wrote: >Hi, > >This is a list from the M9312 manual, it is afaik the complete list. the part # is helpful, but what I also need is the contents of the "id" which can be seen via the console ODT... -brad From wacarder at usit.net Wed Dec 8 14:04:56 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: pdp-11 boot rom id's? & vtserver on an 11/44 References: <200412081938.iB8JceFG007743@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <06b701c4dd61$31c86780$f71b0f14@wcarder1> > >This is a list from the M9312 manual, it is afaik the complete list. > > the part # is helpful, but what I also need is the contents of the > "id" which can be seen via the console ODT... > > -brad If I remember correctly, the 2 character code and the table with the DEC part numbers is in Appendix E of the M9312 manual. I think I got my copy of the manual from Al's bitsavers at: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/M9312_TechRef.pdf Ashley From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Dec 8 14:37:43 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: DEC TZ885 mini-library (nearly OT :) In-Reply-To: <1102454012.8990.32.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200412082055.iB8Ktgjd035478@huey.classiccmp.org> Jules wrote: > > you need to treat them to a bit of this: > > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/electricstuff/esd.html > that bloke's mental! cheers w From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Dec 8 14:49:00 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? In-Reply-To: <1102512104.10215.9.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <200412080536.iB85aLrG018510@lots.reanimators.org> <3.0.6.32.20041207174127.007d0ce0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041207225208.007cec80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200412080536.iB85aLrG018510@lots.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041208154900.007d1100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:21 PM 12/8/04 +0000, you wrote: > >I might be looking for some HP3000 software if anyone out there has any. Steve Robertson has a working 3000 and a bunch of SW for it. IIRC he told me that he had the SW distribution from HP and that it contained all their 3000 SW. After you bought what you wanted they gave you a license and an access code for the parts that you bought. Steve's in the middle of a move so I can't contact him right now but I'll try to remember to have him contact you when he gets back in touch. Joe >We hooked one up the other day and so far it seems to be working (it was >only intended as a static exhibit!) so making it *do* something is an >option. I've only seen alignment packs for the drives so far, and >nothing on tape though. > >I confess to being totally ignorant about HP stuff! :-) > >cheers > >Jules > > From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Dec 8 15:29:48 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Card punch? References: <1C0D1E12-4878-11D9-B154-000A9586BBB0@bluewin.ch> Message-ID: <16823.29260.981569.898478@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Key punch, I'd say. Never mind that, look at those dummy loads... ni1d From shirker at mooli.org.uk Wed Dec 8 15:47:33 2004 From: shirker at mooli.org.uk (Shirker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Retro blinkenlights panel available - UK Message-ID: Hi cctech'ers, I came across the following item which I have no need for, but it looks absolutely ideal for anyone who's building a recreated old computer or a new design from scratch, to use as status lights. See http://shirker.mooli.org.uk/pics/blinkenlights.jpg I think it's a panel from some experiment or other, way back when. The lampholders are all wired together, and yes, those are filament lamps. All of the lampholders are actually there - the couple which look like they aren't have just been pushed through the panel by something, but are there on the back. There is some type of concrete-like substance on the panel (I've cleaned most of it off the front, but it's still there on the back - cleans off OK with a mild solvent and a brush) which would need to be cleaned off it. Anyone who wants this, please contact me via private mail within 21 days or I'll have to scrap it. Please feel free to offer cash as I could really use it - however, if the best/only offer I get is "I'll pay postage/collect" then that's fine :) If not, then, best offer takes it. I also have a large number of books which came from the same place - I'll list these on here within a few days so stay tuned! Ed. From trixter at oldskool.org Sun Dec 5 16:58:51 2004 From: trixter at oldskool.org (Jim Leonard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:13 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20041201223340.016b09e0@pop-server> References: <3.0.3.32.20041201223340.016b09e0@pop-server> Message-ID: <41B392AB.8060404@oldskool.org> Dr. Ido wrote: > There were at least a couple of versions of tetris that ran in text mode. >>From memory the Spectrum Holobyte release included a tiny text mode version > (~8kb .com file) along with the graphic version. The others were probably > PD/shareware and weren't > actually called tetris. The original Tetris was 40-column text mode, MS-DOS. underdogs should have it (www.the-underdogs.org). -- Jim Leonard (trixter@oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ From trixter at oldskool.org Sun Dec 5 17:05:42 2004 From: trixter at oldskool.org (Jim Leonard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs In-Reply-To: References: <200412010330.WAA05125@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <19E7D8C4-434D-11D9-B578-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <41B39446.7090105@oldskool.org> Ethan Dicks wrote: > Some stuff might go, perhaps... it has to be somewhat simplistic, of > course. Infocom's DOS stuff relied on NANSI.SYS, IIRC, as opposed to Since Infocom's DOS stuff was released half a decade before NANSI existed, this is false. Regular ANSI.SYS was used if you wanted color; otherwise it was just monochrome. > I've had good experiences with 'dosbox' - I was playing 'XCOM' a few > months ago on a Linux system. The DOS version of the game played fine > with a couple of quirks, but nothing that kept me from playing it. DOSBOX has come a long, long way and is fantastic for playing the majority of older DOS games. Video and sound are nearly fully emulated. (dosbox.sourceforge.net for those who don't know what the link is) -- Jim Leonard (trixter@oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ From trixter at oldskool.org Sun Dec 5 17:25:28 2004 From: trixter at oldskool.org (Jim Leonard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? Message-ID: <41B398E8.2010400@oldskool.org> I have a few IBM model 5150s that I use to code entries for programming competitions and I'd like to try to speed up the hard disk in any way possible. (If you're curious what my last project was, check out http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=13722 to download and try it out -- it displays full-screen full-motion color video with sync'd sound -- yes, on a 4.77MHz 8088, no fooling). I've been looking for any way to speed up the hard disk subsystem (currently WD1002 with Seagate ST225) and I simply can't get more than 130KB/s out of the darn thing... so: - Is there any MFM/RLL 8-bit ISA controller that can read disks at their full 1:1 interleave? If so, where can I get one? 3:1 is the best I've been able to get using the above MFM combination. I haven't tried RLL yet because I don't have any RLL controllers. - If not, do such things exist as 8-bit ISA IDE controllers? I have lots of "little" IDE drives (320MB and 540MB models) that I could hook up. I attempted not one but TWO 8-bit Plus hardcards (both 40MB models), thinking that the embedded drive/controller combo would be better, but my experience with Plus Hardcards (even the 16-bit 120MB versions) is that, after about 8 years, the damn EEPROM forgets everything and it doesn't boot (no BIOS, get a 1701 "controller error"). So I couldn't get either of them to work. (As a result I have 4 Plus hardcards that I am *this close* to throwing away, unless someone has an idea of reviving them :-) Any advice? Or should I just try to find an EMS board and cache my data instead? (Speaking of which, does anyone have a LIM EMS board for sale/trade? Can't seem to find one of those either.) -- Jim Leonard (trixter@oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Sun Dec 5 20:39:30 2004 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: Stuff for trade or...... In-Reply-To: from "Robert Feldman" at Dec 01, 2004 12:27:42 PM Message-ID: <200412060239.iB62dUHm003379@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> Picked up a KickStart 1 pc diagonstic board (pc, xt, at) complete in box yesterday. Figured someone here could use it. Also, I have a SparcStation 1 and an Xterm (hardware based x-terminal) I'm looking to get rid of. Things I'm looking for - Controller card for my IMSAI 8080 Trs-80 Model 1 or 3 ZX-81 Amiga 500 Marty From wilsonr at iinet.net.au Mon Dec 6 03:50:17 2004 From: wilsonr at iinet.net.au (Ross Wilson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: IMLAC - what happened to assembler, emulator? Message-ID: <41B42B59.9080405@iinet.net.au> Hi all, I've been lurking here since a slashdot article on the 30th anniversary of Maze, the first lan/wan FPS, which was run on an IMLAC. I was very interested in this as I programmed an IMLAC - PDS-4, I guess - in 1977/8 at Sydney University (au) and have good memories of the machine. I saw hints on the list that an assembler was imminent and an emulator was under consideration. That was September 2002, and nothing since. I am really interested in an emulator - I have an emulation of the main processor running and got it loading 'paper tapes' from disk via the paper tape boot loader. I've used this to load code from hand assembled files to test the emulation and I would like to go a little further a little faster. Does anybody have information on the format of the data the papertape block-loader reads and loads? The block loader is the first thing the boot loader runs - it reads in the rest of the tape. Also, does anyone know of or has any software (source or binary) on papertape or any other form? I have no idea of the current ownership, if any, of the existing IMLAC software, and I could write an assembler, but it's so much more cool to run the IMLAC assembler! TIA, Ross From waisun.chia at hp.com Mon Dec 6 21:43:24 2004 From: waisun.chia at hp.com (Wai-Sun Chia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: RT-11 installation In-Reply-To: <41AFB020.5080707@compsys.to> References: <41AE908D.6070500@mdrconsult.com> <41AF399D.7020408@compsys.to> <13BD681D-44B6-11D9-A45F-000D9335D6E2@xlisper.mv.com> <41AFB020.5080707@compsys.to> Message-ID: <41B526DC.4010906@hp.com> Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > In addition, is anyone interested in V2-0 of the CD > which would contain layered products? Which layered Yes! > products would be important: > (a) FORTRAN IV and 77 > (b) BASIC > (c) C C! > (d) Pascal > (e) COBOL (is there a COBOL for RT-11?) Hmm...I think there was a Dibol but not sure anymore.. /wai-sun From richardlynch3 at comcast.net Tue Dec 7 01:22:43 2004 From: richardlynch3 at comcast.net (Richard Lynch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: Making CP/M disk images In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've been able to create images of some Altos 580 disks using Teledisk 2.15, then recreate the disks on DSDD media using the 1.2mb 5.25" drive on my 286. If you can email me your images I'll see if I can make working copies on my setup. Richard on 11/25/04 9:15 AM, Gary Fisher at GFisher@tristonecapital.com wrote: > I'm trying to do the same thing with some (downloaded) Teledisk images for an > Altos 580 server which has a similar 96tpi floppy with no luck (a plea for > help here). > > My limited understanding is that these drives use double density media and > that a standard 1.2 mb drives don't work too well with that (the manuals all > say that writing out 360k AKA 40 track disks on a 1.2mb is a bad thing). Did > you take the drive in the SB180 and put it in the Compaq, still calling it a > 1.2, 360k or even a 720k 3.5? I tried that with a different (SA-465) 96tpi > drive jumpered as drive 1 and it seemed to write disks with no reported > problems on the Teledisk write. The Altos still didn't like the disk though > but that might be a function of the original files (or something else I forgot > to do). > > Gary F. > > ------Oiginal below edited for brevity.----- > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:48:18 -0500 > From: "Richard A. Cini" > Subject: RE: Making CP/M disk images > To: "'Dwight K. Elvey'" , "'General Discussion: > On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > Message-ID: <000801c4d288$74daad50$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Dwight: > > Interestingly, Teledisk did skip every other track. These are DSDD disks > formatted on the SB180 machine using the "40 track" option. The drive in the > SB180 is a 96TPI drive (HD) and the disk on the PC side is a standard 1.2mb. > > I'll have to see if Teledisk has any options that may address this. As I > recall, the number of configurable options was sparse, though. > > > > > > This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged > information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender > immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any > dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended > recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Unless otherwise stated, > opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the author and are not endorsed > by the author's employer. > > > From awatt at grandriver.ca Tue Dec 7 12:24:18 2004 From: awatt at grandriver.ca (Alison Watt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: Mecos device Message-ID: Hi Lawrence, I know your post about the little electronic MECOS device you found in a box of junk is 2 years old, but do you still have it? A friend's father-in-law has such a thing that he's been wearing around his neck and swears it keeps him healthy. (We're not sure how.) It's wearing out and he wants a new one. If yours is still working, would you be willing to part with it? Alison From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 8 16:38:57 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: Retro blinkenlights panel available - UK In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, Shirker wrote: > I came across the following item which I have no need for, but it looks > absolutely ideal for anyone who's building a recreated old computer or a > new design from scratch, to use as status lights. > > See http://shirker.mooli.org.uk/pics/blinkenlights.jpg It looks like part of a photographic developer of some sort. I reckon young Johnny Lawson could probably fill us in some more. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 8 16:45:55 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? In-Reply-To: <41B398E8.2010400@oldskool.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Dec 2004, Jim Leonard wrote: > I have a few IBM model 5150s that I use to code entries for programming > competitions and I'd like to try to speed up the hard disk in any way possible. > (If you're curious what my last project was, check out > http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=13722 to download and try it out -- it > displays full-screen full-motion color video with sync'd sound -- yes, on a > 4.77MHz 8088, no fooling). I've been looking for any way to speed up the hard > disk subsystem (currently WD1002 with Seagate ST225) and I simply can't get > more than 130KB/s out of the darn thing... so: Hey Jim. Are you allowed to use more modern versions of DOS (i.e. post 3.3)? If so, why not use a version that has SmartDrive built in? Better yet, use Speedstor or some equally capable caching utility. Or will caching not work for your purposes? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Dec 8 17:26:06 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: Retro blinkenlights panel available - UK In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, Shirker wrote: > >> I came across the following item which I have no need for, but it looks >> absolutely ideal for anyone who's building a recreated old computer or a >> new design from scratch, to use as status lights. >> >> See http://shirker.mooli.org.uk/pics/blinkenlights.jpg > > It looks like part of a photographic developer of some sort. I reckon > young Johnny Lawson could probably fill us in some more. Well, it's a curved metal panel with an assembly of pretty much bog-standard bayonet base miniature lamps on it.. one would have to go to a bit of trouble to make a 'status display' out of it - after dealing with the drivers, and (I am assuming) rewiring it for individual addressing of each lamp. But as to what it's intended function was/is - I've certainly No Clue. Cheerz John From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Wed Dec 8 17:57:17 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: <002d01c4dc97$e274bbd0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> References: <0412070103.AA13529@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <002d01c4dc97$e274bbd0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 20:03:54 -0000, Antonio Carlini wrote: > Well there certainly were non-point-to-point synch implementations > around: DEC DDCMP supports multi-drop links. I think exactly once, one of our customers put a COMBOARD into a multi-drop environment... worked fine, but the salesguy was nervous since it would work theoretically, but we hadn't done exhaustive testing. -ethan From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Dec 8 18:03:41 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: Retro blinkenlights panel available - UK Message-ID: <200412090003.QAA10325@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "John Lawson" > > > >On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >> On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, Shirker wrote: >> >>> I came across the following item which I have no need for, but it looks >>> absolutely ideal for anyone who's building a recreated old computer or a >>> new design from scratch, to use as status lights. >>> >>> See http://shirker.mooli.org.uk/pics/blinkenlights.jpg >> >> It looks like part of a photographic developer of some sort. I reckon >> young Johnny Lawson could probably fill us in some more. > > > Well, it's a curved metal panel with an assembly of pretty much >bog-standard bayonet base miniature lamps on it.. one would have to go >to a bit of trouble to make a 'status display' out of it - after dealing >with the drivers, and (I am assuming) rewiring it for individual >addressing of each lamp. > > But as to what it's intended function was/is - I've certainly No Clue. > > Cheerz > >John Hi It looks like it might be used as part of a light curing system. You know, place the item on a rotating shaft and have 4 quadrants of these light. I once had a photo copies that had a bank of lamps like this but it was flat. An automatic machine might have a curved bank like this. Dwight From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Dec 8 18:07:42 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: Retro blinkenlights panel available - UK In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1102550862.10199.101.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-12-08 at 18:26 -0500, John Lawson wrote: > But as to what it's intended function was/is - I've certainly No Clue. It'd make a nice overhead flashing lights panel for the set of a 1970's- style sci-fi movie spaceship control deck ;-) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 8 19:06:40 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? In-Reply-To: <1102512144.10215.11.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Dec 8, 4 01:22:24 pm Message-ID: > > On Wed, 2004-12-08 at 04:37 +0000, Tony Duell wrote: > > I've had all of them across my bench at one time or another. > > that sounds borderline pornographic ;-) Well, considering I also have had them totally stripped..... :-) -tony From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Dec 8 22:55:55 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041208203412.G49412@shell.lmi.net> > On Sun, 5 Dec 2004, Jim Leonard wrote: > > I have a few IBM model 5150s that I use to code entries for programming > > competitions and I'd like to try to speed up the hard disk in any way possible. > > (If you're curious what my last project was, check out > > http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=13722 to download and try it out -- it > > displays full-screen full-motion color video with sync'd sound -- yes, on a > > 4.77MHz 8088, no fooling). I've been looking for any way to speed up the hard > > disk subsystem (currently WD1002 with Seagate ST225) and I simply can't get > > more than 130KB/s out of the darn thing... so: Yes, there ARE some XT controllers that claim to do 1:1. I do NOT remember WHICH ones. Yes, there ARE some 8 bit IDE controllers, but not all IDE drives will work with them. On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Hey Jim. > Are you allowed to use more modern versions of DOS (i.e. post 3.3)? If > so, why not use a version that has SmartDrive built in? Better yet, use > Speedstor or some equally capable caching utility. Or will caching not > work for your purposes? SMARTDRV was bundled with Windoze 3.10, and will work with some of the <3.30 DOS versions. But you need to use 3.31 or newer to have any partitions larger than 32M. The DOS 6.2x version of SMARTDRV has some very important changes that "solved the problems with DoubleSpace": it defaults to doing read caching, but NOT write caching, if write caching is turned on, it no longer rearranges the sequence of the writes, when a program ends, it will not present the DOS prompt until the write caching buffer is flushed. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From vax9000 at gmail.com Wed Dec 8 23:41:21 2004 From: vax9000 at gmail.com (9000 VAX) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? In-Reply-To: <20041208203412.G49412@shell.lmi.net> References: <20041208203412.G49412@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 20:55:55 -0800 (PST), Fred Cisin wrote: > > On Sun, 5 Dec 2004, Jim Leonard wrote: > > > I have a few IBM model 5150s that I use to code entries for programming > > > competitions and I'd like to try to speed up the hard disk in any way possible. > > > (If you're curious what my last project was, check out > > > http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=13722 to download and try it out -- it > > > displays full-screen full-motion color video with sync'd sound -- yes, on a > > > 4.77MHz 8088, no fooling). I've been looking for any way to speed up the hard > > > disk subsystem (currently WD1002 with Seagate ST225) and I simply can't get > > > more than 130KB/s out of the darn thing... so: > > Yes, there ARE some XT controllers that claim to do 1:1. > I do NOT remember WHICH ones. > Yes, there ARE some 8 bit IDE controllers, > but not all IDE drives will work with them. There are 8 bit SCSI controllers too. Once I sold two to one guy for $10. Both used NCR 53c90, both had ROM and were bootable. > > On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Hey Jim. > > Are you allowed to use more modern versions of DOS (i.e. post 3.3)? If > > so, why not use a version that has SmartDrive built in? Better yet, use > > Speedstor or some equally capable caching utility. Or will caching not > > work for your purposes? > > SMARTDRV was bundled with Windoze 3.10, and will work with > some of the <3.30 DOS versions. > But you need to use 3.31 or newer to have any partitions > larger than 32M. XT's do not have more than 640K memory, thus SMARTDRV is not very useful. vax, 9000 > > The DOS 6.2x version of SMARTDRV has some very important > changes that "solved the problems with DoubleSpace": > it defaults to doing read caching, but NOT write caching, > if write caching is turned on, it no longer rearranges the sequence of the > writes, > when a program ends, it will not present the DOS prompt until the write > caching buffer is flushed. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Wed Dec 8 23:48:45 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? In-Reply-To: References: <20041208203412.G49412@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 00:41:21 -0500, 9000 VAX wrote: > There are 8 bit SCSI controllers too. Once I sold two to one guy for > $10. Both used NCR 53c90, both had ROM and were bootable. I got a Trantor T-128 with my first CD-ROM drive (NCR CDR-74? - had a double-shutter caddy) Don't recall if it was bootable, but it was good for more than just the CD-ROM. I also doubt it did DMA... which may or may not make it suitable for the purpose at hand (speeding up disk access). -ethan From pcw at mesanet.com Wed Dec 8 23:52:40 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, 9000 VAX wrote: > > SMARTDRV was bundled with Windoze 3.10, and will work with > > some of the <3.30 DOS versions. > > But you need to use 3.31 or newer to have any partitions > > larger than 32M. > XT's do not have more than 640K memory, thus SMARTDRV is not very useful. With EMS you can have more than 640K... > > vax, 9000 > Peter Wallace From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 8 23:53:22 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: More data on dead wall wart Message-ID: So I double checked the AC voltage output on this TI wall wart for the Silent 700 model 703 and it definitely has no voltage (and correction on my meter settings: it has 200VAC and 600VAC). I also checked and there is infinite resistance between any combination of pins (I checked on all settings from 2 ohms to 20 Mohms). For the hell of it I checked for DC voltage and there also is none. Foo. Next step is to crack it open. Anyone know a good way to open up these permanently sealed transformers? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Thu Dec 9 01:01:07 2004 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: More data on dead wall wart References: Message-ID: <030501c4ddbc$db1da600$7900a8c0@athlon1200> Cut along the join in the case-usually obvious and in the middle- Use a small hacksaw on the long sides and wherever else you can; then use a Dremel with cutoff disk on the tricky bits/corners. DaveB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 6:53 PM Subject: More data on dead wall wart > > So I double checked the AC voltage output on this TI wall wart for > the > Silent 700 model 703 and it definitely has no voltage (and > correction on > my meter settings: it has 200VAC and 600VAC). > > I also checked and there is infinite resistance between any > combination > of pins (I checked on all settings from 2 ohms to 20 Mohms). For > the hell > of it I checked for DC voltage and there also is none. > > Foo. > > Next step is to crack it open. Anyone know a good way to open up > these > permanently sealed transformers? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.7 - Release Date: 7/12/2004 > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.7 - Release Date: 7/12/2004 From tomj at wps.com Thu Dec 9 01:29:14 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: More data on dead wall wart In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Next step is to crack it open. Anyone know a good way to open up these > permanently sealed transformers? I've had reasonable luck at clean breaks by laying it on it's edge (edge meaning along the glue seam), placing something like a butter knife (putty knife, etc) and applying pressure with a small hammer, in the manner of pressure-chipping stone knives. A series of little >crack< to the glue seam for the entire circumference, once or twice around. Or you can sometimes just wail on it like craking a nut. Seriously. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Dec 9 01:44:09 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: Seeking pre-1996 Macvector and Omiga user manuals ($$$) Message-ID: A new bounty. I'm looking for user manuals for pre-1996 versions of Macvector and Omiga. Has anyone ever heard of these products? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Dec 9 06:11:33 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1102594293.11654.3.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-12-09 at 01:06 +0000, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > On Wed, 2004-12-08 at 04:37 +0000, Tony Duell wrote: > > > I've had all of them across my bench at one time or another. > > > > that sounds borderline pornographic ;-) > > Well, considering I also have had them totally stripped..... :-) And necessary parts well lubricated, presumably! Ok, I'll stop now! From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Dec 9 06:54:42 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: IBM Executive electric typewriter (Cambridge UK) Message-ID: <1102596882.11654.40.camel@weka.localdomain> Spotted for free on a local group; forerunner of the golf ball machines apparently, sounds to be around 30-40 years old. Thought I'd mention it here on the offchance anyone wanted to come and grab it before it gets skipped (it's not really the sort of thing Bletchley want, but maybe someone on this list has a thing for such items) Give me a yell if you want me to put you in touch with the chap. cheers Jules -- "We've had a lot of loonies around this place, but you're the first one who thought the sunrise was made out of stale beer. Now are you going to pick up your flute and leave, or shall I part your hair with this crowbar?" From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Dec 9 08:00:24 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: Seeking pre-1996 Macvector and Omiga user manuals ($$$) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209075708.055e9c68@pc> At 01:44 AM 12/9/2004, you wrote: >A new bounty. I'm looking for user manuals for pre-1996 versions of >Macvector and Omiga. >Has anyone ever heard of these products? Not until I googled. Without revealing any client details or trade secrets, I know I'd love to hear more about your gumshoe side-business. Perhaps some other list members would, too. What do clients need, what other methods have they tried, why do they come to you, how successful or unsuccessful have you been? How fruitful is web search versus real-world research? - John From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Dec 9 08:16:56 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: Build an Enigma machine out of paper Message-ID: <41B85E58.9020205@jcwren.com> I think Enigma machines meet the 10 year rule... From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Dec 9 08:37:25 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: Build an Enigma machine out of paper In-Reply-To: <41B85E58.9020205@jcwren.com> References: <41B85E58.9020205@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <1102603045.11640.53.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-12-09 at 09:16 -0500, J.C. Wren wrote: > I think Enigma machines meet the 10 year rule... > > Bletchley also do the pocket enigma, a single-rotor cardboard 'machine' to demonstrate the principle: https://secure.bletchleypark.org.uk/newshop/shopcategory.asp? productcode=ENIG028 I've never paid any attention to them so can't say how good they are as gifts, but thought it worth a mention! cheers Jules From williams.dan at gmail.com Thu Dec 9 08:48:22 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: Can anyone identify these drives Message-ID: <26c11a6404120906486393263d@mail.gmail.com> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1484&item=5735836228 Any idea of the capacity of these and wether they are worth having ?. They came from a big vax site although they may not have been used with them. Thanks Dan From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Dec 9 09:14:10 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: Misc stuff (Canon TX50, Zenith, XEN-i) - South Croydon, UK Message-ID: <1102605250.11654.90.camel@weka.localdomain> Chap has the following going spare for pickup in south Croydon if anyone wants: ________________________________________________________________________ * Canon TX 50 computer. 8088 or 8086 processor. Single 3.5 inch floppy disk drive. No hard disk. 15 cm screen. Designed as a point of sale terminal. Built in tally roll printer. LED on each key which can be switched under program control. Comes with MsDos 1.25 and a set of Bureau de Change software - even the currencies are now nostalgic. * Zenith 'Portable' computer - we called it a 'luggable'. ROM BIOS dated 07/14/1987. 8088 or 8086 processor. 20 M byte hard disk. In working order. Battery dead but mains adaptor OK. No modem or network adaptor. Floppy disk drive missing but Laplink installed and working. * 3 x Apricot XEN-i 386/45 computers - at least one of them would work if the hard disk drive was replaced. * Apricot-specific monitor for the above - with a female connector on its cable. * Communicate C-FAX-SRI Fax-only modem card for IBM PC He's got some other bits we're insterested in having for the museum, but these ones above are surplus to requirements! Shout if interested. cheers Jules From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 9 10:06:16 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:14 2005 Subject: Can anyone identify these drives In-Reply-To: <26c11a6404120906486393263d@mail.gmail.com> References: <26c11a6404120906486393263d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: >http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1484&item=5735836228 > >Any idea of the capacity of these and wether they are worth having ?. >They came from a big vax site although they may not have been used >with them. The pictures looks "squished", and I think the rack is taller than it appears. The name "Liberator 220" doesn't sound familiar, but I'm guessing it's a 3rd party equivalent of RA9x drives. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From vcf at siconic.com Thu Dec 9 10:12:19 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? In-Reply-To: <1102594293.11654.3.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Thu, 2004-12-09 at 01:06 +0000, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, 2004-12-08 at 04:37 +0000, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > I've had all of them across my bench at one time or another. > > > > > > that sounds borderline pornographic ;-) > > > > Well, considering I also have had them totally stripped..... :-) > > And necessary parts well lubricated, presumably! > > Ok, I'll stop now! I'll keep going: ...and probed with your tool. Ooh. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Dec 9 11:56:09 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Can anyone identify these drives In-Reply-To: References: <26c11a6404120906486393263d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041209185609.7eaa25bb.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 08:06:16 -0800 "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1484&item=5 > >735836228 > > > >Any idea of the capacity of these and wether they are worth having ?. > >They came from a big vax site although they may not have been used > >with them. > > The pictures looks "squished", and I think the rack is taller than it > appears. The name "Liberator 220" doesn't sound familiar, but I'm > guessing it's a 3rd party equivalent of RA9x drives. I have a "Liberator 140". It is a SCSI to DSSI converter. (Ie. you mount SCSI disks inside and they are shown as DSSI disks to the VAX.) It came out of a rack that contained some similar looking SCSI disk boxes that where connected to a SCSI-to-CI HSC. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From williams.dan at gmail.com Thu Dec 9 12:04:10 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Can anyone identify these drives In-Reply-To: <20041209185609.7eaa25bb.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <26c11a6404120906486393263d@mail.gmail.com> <20041209185609.7eaa25bb.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <26c11a6404120910044c4f4d56@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 18:56:09 +0100, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 08:06:16 -0800 > > > "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > > >http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1484&item=5 > > >735836228 > > > > > >Any idea of the capacity of these and wether they are worth having ?. > > >They came from a big vax site although they may not have been used > > >with them. > > > > The pictures looks "squished", and I think the rack is taller than it > > appears. The name "Liberator 220" doesn't sound familiar, but I'm > > guessing it's a 3rd party equivalent of RA9x drives. > I have a "Liberator 140". It is a SCSI to DSSI converter. (Ie. you mount > SCSI disks inside and they are shown as DSSI disks to the VAX.) It came > out of a rack that contained some similar looking SCSI disk boxes that > where connected to a SCSI-to-CI HSC. > -- > > tsch??, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ > > It might be worth having then. Although the shipping is quite high, It would solve the problem of having no scsi on the 4000's. Do you know how quick they are compared to ordinary dssi drives. I have a hsd05 and it is very slow. Dan From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Dec 9 12:21:17 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Can anyone identify these drives In-Reply-To: <26c11a6404120910044c4f4d56@mail.gmail.com> References: <26c11a6404120906486393263d@mail.gmail.com> <20041209185609.7eaa25bb.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <26c11a6404120910044c4f4d56@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041209192117.26cc5681.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 18:04:10 +0000 Dan Williams wrote: > It might be worth having then. Although the shipping is quite high, It > would solve the problem of having no scsi on the 4000's. Do you know > how quick they are compared to ordinary dssi drives. I have no idea. I never used my Liberator. I got it with a lot of other VAX and HP9000/700 stuff. It was a "take nothing or all" deal and I wanted the HP9000 K-Class... As I already own enough VAXen and didn't need just an other MV4k200 and a stack of VS3k1, I gave all the VAX stuff away, only the Liberator and the SCSI-to-CI HSC are left. Some day I'll get a VAX 6000 and then I'll have a use for that stuff. ;-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 9 12:52:41 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? In-Reply-To: <20041208203412.G49412@shell.lmi.net> References: <20041208203412.G49412@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <41395.64.139.41.130.1102618361.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Fred wrote: > Yes, there ARE some 8 bit IDE controllers, > but not all IDE drives will work with them. To a first approximation, *NO* IDE drives will work with them. 8-bit support is not part of the official ATA specification. Even back when 8-bit IDE adapters were being sold, not many drives worked with them, and as soon as the adapters disappeared the drive makers that had bothered to support them stopped doing so. Eric From melamy at earthlink.net Thu Dec 9 13:28:47 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? Message-ID: <22633871.1102620528966.JavaMail.root@beaker.psp.pas.earthlink.net> considering that the ATA-1 spec included 8 bit transfers from the harddrive, I don't understand why no IDE drives that supported ATA-1 would not work on a PC/XT (unless the DMA speed was the problem). -----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith Sent: Dec 9, 2004 1:52 PM To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Subject: Re: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? Fred wrote: > Yes, there ARE some 8 bit IDE controllers, > but not all IDE drives will work with them. To a first approximation, *NO* IDE drives will work with them. 8-bit support is not part of the official ATA specification. Even back when 8-bit IDE adapters were being sold, not many drives worked with them, and as soon as the adapters disappeared the drive makers that had bothered to support them stopped doing so. Eric From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 9 13:46:44 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? In-Reply-To: <22633871.1102620528966.JavaMail.root@beaker.psp.pas.earthlink.net> References: <22633871.1102620528966.JavaMail.root@beaker.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <47469.64.139.41.130.1102621604.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Steve Thatcher wrote: > considering that the ATA-1 spec included 8 bit transfers from the > harddrive, I don't understand why no IDE drives that supported ATA-1 would > not work on a PC/XT (unless the DMA speed was the problem). I wasn't aware that 8-bit was included in ATA-1; I don't have a copy of ATA-1 or ATA-2. Was the 8-bit support mandatory or optional? In any case, it was certainly gone by ATA-3. I very much doubt that any ATA drive manufactured in the last 15 years has 8-bit support. Eric From Hans.Franke at siemens.com Thu Dec 9 14:03:22 2004 From: Hans.Franke at siemens.com (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? In-Reply-To: <47469.64.139.41.130.1102621604.squirrel@64.139.41.130> References: <22633871.1102620528966.JavaMail.root@beaker.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <41B8BD9A.27238.24BA1624@localhost> Am 9 Dec 2004 11:46 meinte Eric Smith: > Steve Thatcher wrote: > > considering that the ATA-1 spec included 8 bit transfers from the > > harddrive, I don't understand why no IDE drives that supported ATA-1 would > > not work on a PC/XT (unless the DMA speed was the problem). > I wasn't aware that 8-bit was included in ATA-1; I don't have a copy of > ATA-1 or ATA-2. Was the 8-bit support mandatory or optional? In any > case, it was certainly gone by ATA-3. I very much doubt that any ATA > drive manufactured in the last 15 years has 8-bit support. Well, original ATA was nothing more than a straight forward adaption of the MFM controler - and that one was still good for 8 Bit access. Also, there was never (at least in the beginning) a formal Standard, so as usual everything was possible ... just remember all the problems of Master/Slave combinations from different vendors. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 6.0 am 30.April und 01.Mai 2005 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 9 14:19:21 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? In-Reply-To: <41B8BD9A.27238.24BA1624@localhost> References: <22633871.1102620528966.JavaMail.root@beaker.psp.pas.earthlink.net> <41B8BD9A.27238.24BA1624@localhost> Message-ID: <51166.64.139.41.130.1102623561.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Hans wrote: > Well, original ATA was nothing more than a straight forward > adaption of the MFM controler - It was a straightforward adaptation of the IBM *AT* MFM controller. The standard IBM XT MFM controller was much different. And the IBM AT MFM controller was basically an ISA-bus version of the earlier WD task-file based controllers, which supported 8-bit transfers only. > and that one was still good for 8 Bit access. It's been so long since I've written any code for the original IBM AT MFM controller that I don't recall whether it was actually usable with 8-bit data register access or not (the control registers are all only 8 bits). I don't have an AT Tech Ref handy to check. Eric From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Dec 9 14:22:55 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: DEC TZ885 mini-library (nearly OT :) In-Reply-To: <200412072123.iB7LNtjd029230@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <200412092040.iB9Keljd042041@huey.classiccmp.org> > diagnostics as long as the robot isn't going nuts (rare) but > I haven't found which button actually selects said test or > function. Also, 2 of them don't open the drive door when > expected so the tape bounces off repeatedly until the robot > gives up.... Sorted it......it occurred to me this morning that we hadn't checked the PSUs in these units, knowing DEC and it's choice of poor PSUs for external tape units! cheers w From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Dec 9 15:02:13 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? In-Reply-To: Message from "Eric Smith" of "Thu, 09 Dec 2004 11:46:44 PST." <47469.64.139.41.130.1102621604.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: <200412092102.iB9L2D87010357@mwave.heeltoe.com> "Eric Smith" wrote: >Steve Thatcher wrote: >> considering that the ATA-1 spec included 8 bit transfers from the >> harddrive, I don't understand why no IDE drives that supported ATA-1 would >> not work on a PC/XT (unless the DMA speed was the problem). > >I wasn't aware that 8-bit was included in ATA-1; I don't have a copy of >ATA-1 or ATA-2. Was the 8-bit support mandatory or optional? In any >case, it was certainly gone by ATA-3. I very much doubt that any ATA >drive manufactured in the last 15 years has 8-bit support. I'm out of my depth here, but I am curious - all of the CF drives I use support 8 bit access. I thought they were somehow "ATA compliant". I assume you're talking about the interface between the drive and the controller, right? sorry if I'm lost - it happens :-) -brad From tomj at wps.com Thu Dec 9 15:14:50 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I'll keep going: So. Are there any women (left) on this list? Hmm... I wonder why. From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 9 15:40:10 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? In-Reply-To: References: <20041208203412.G49412@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20041209132148.N65479@shell.lmi.net> On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, 9000 VAX wrote: > There are 8 bit SCSI controllers too. Once I sold two to one guy for > $10. Both used NCR 53c90, both had ROM and were bootable. I have a DTC 3250 (SCSI + floppy) with manual AND DRIVER DISK!, and a Future Domain TMC-840. Both have ROMs (EPROMs?) They are available if they will help. (I found them a few days ago while looking for my ST-01s (another thread); Some book or magazine had had source code for a stand-alone CD-ROM driver using the ST-01, and I had gotten a few to play with many years ago.) > > SMARTDRV was bundled with Windoze 3.10, and will work with > > some of the <3.30 DOS versions. > > But you need to use 3.31 or newer to have any partitions > > larger than 32M. > XT's do not have more than 640K memory, thus SMARTDRV is not very useful. But wouldn't a few hundred K of cache be helpful? While it's true that XTs can not have more than 640K of REAL memory (actually 1M minus some overhead with some hardware and software hacks), not even HIMEM, and certainly no XMS (Extended Memory Specification), I have had up to 8meg of "Expanded" memory on XTs. I have a tote full of TallTree JRAM, JLASER, etc. stuff. I don't know what the max was on the later LIM (Lotus Intel MicroSoft) EMS (Expanded Memory Specification). -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From aek at spies.com Thu Dec 9 15:43:37 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? Message-ID: <20041209214337.79CF14A4C@spies.com> I thought they were somehow "ATA compliant". I assume you're talking about the interface between the drive and the controller, right? -- The issue is what data bus width is assumed during DMA transfers. 16 bits is 'normal'. Apparently, it was possible to do 8 bit DMA transfers on early drives. I've not looked at the interface for CF. Guess it's possible 8 bits is supported there as well. From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 9 15:48:51 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: More data on dead wall wart In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041209134538.F65479@shell.lmi.net> > > Next step is to crack it open. Anyone know a good way to open up these > > permanently sealed transformers? On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > Or you can sometimes just wail on it like craking a nut. Seriously. One year, at the West Coast Computer Faire, we repaired 5 TRS80 ones for other exhibitors ('spose the flaky power at Brooks Hall might be responsible?). We opened them by flinging them down onto a carpeted concrete floor. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Dec 9 16:08:37 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? Message-ID: <200412092208.OAA10919@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Hans Franke" > >Am 9 Dec 2004 11:46 meinte Eric Smith: >> Steve Thatcher wrote: >> > considering that the ATA-1 spec included 8 bit transfers from the >> > harddrive, I don't understand why no IDE drives that supported ATA-1 would >> > not work on a PC/XT (unless the DMA speed was the problem). > >> I wasn't aware that 8-bit was included in ATA-1; I don't have a copy of >> ATA-1 or ATA-2. Was the 8-bit support mandatory or optional? In any >> case, it was certainly gone by ATA-3. I very much doubt that any ATA >> drive manufactured in the last 15 years has 8-bit support. > >Well, original ATA was nothing more than a straight forward >adaption of the MFM controler - and that one was still good >for 8 Bit access. Also, there was never (at least in the beginning) >a formal Standard, so as usual everything was possible ... >just remember all the problems of Master/Slave combinations >from different vendors. > >Gruss >H. Hi As I recall, the commands were 8 bit compatable but the data wasn't since this was not to the controller but to the storage buffer. I believe that the newer drives are not even 8 bit compatable for the commands. Dwight From tomj at wps.com Thu Dec 9 16:21:06 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: More data on dead wall wart In-Reply-To: <20041209134538.F65479@shell.lmi.net> References: <20041209134538.F65479@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > One year, at the West Coast Computer Faire, we repaired > 5 TRS80 ones for other exhibitors ('spose the flaky power > at Brooks Hall might be responsible?). > We opened them by flinging them down onto a carpeted concrete floor. Shag, berber, or ...? From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 9 16:31:05 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: More data on dead wall wart In-Reply-To: References: <20041209134538.F65479@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20041209142755.K65479@shell.lmi.net> > > One year, at the West Coast Computer Faire, we repaired > > 5 TRS80 ones for other exhibitors ('spose the flaky power > > at Brooks Hall might be responsible?). > > We opened them by flinging them down onto a carpeted concrete floor. On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > Shag, berber, or ...? It looked like cheap commercial grade indoor/outdoor. But you could probably get full specs from Greyhoud Exposition Services - just don't trust anything that they say - at the time, they also claimed that it was anti-static. Fortunately, all 5 were just blown fuse, the common failure of those warts. From tomj at wps.com Thu Dec 9 16:42:54 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Shugart 850 drives Message-ID: So what's the story with 8" DSDD floppy drives these days? Are they still available at all? I may need one for my old CP/M-80 machine; some meeces made a nice house and toilet in one. B: is now a single-sided drive, good enough for now, but not later, as the spindle bearing is VERY NOISY (always was). There may be a spare DSDD drive in a box of junk and/or I may recover the one that went weewee. My brother Gregg will ship the zenith monitor (the box uses a Solid State Music VB3a for 24x80 video) and parallel keyboard and boot flops next, then I'll worry about booting. The CMC Marketing chassis seems fine, powered up OK 10V, 18V, -18V, (empty of cards of course), there's little tanalums on the motherboard (for the terminator power supply) I'm running it empty for a few hours to see what gets hot or loses the all-important smoke inside. BIG ferroresonant power supply. I forgot all about the shredded finger callous from extracting S100 boards that don't have ejectors (all the time we used to discuss "standardized" board height utterly wasted... never happened...). Very nasty. Not all memories are pleasant. The board stack is: * Cromemco PRI hacked for port 74 (I have no idea why I did this; will have to RMOFM (*)) * Cromemco TUART hacked, looks like Parallel B pins wired to Serial B, RS-232 control? RMOFM * Cromemco 4FDC hacked, Apparat Trash-80 data separator added, if I remember head-load logic mumble for Shugart-type drives. * Industrial Microsystems 32K static RAM (no jumpers!) * Cromemco ZPU hacked, sigh, one jumper, RMOFM * Seattle Computer Producs SCP-16K 16K static RAM, quantity two. * SSM VB3a video terminal board, 6x7 fonts, no jumpers * Homemade EPROM/monitor card. (*) RMOFM = Read My Own F-ing Manual. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 9 17:10:30 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Shugart 850 drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33208.64.139.41.130.1102633830.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Tom Jennings wrote: > So what's the story with 8" DSDD floppy drives these days? Are > they still available at all? http://www.cadigital.com/flopdriv.htm From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Dec 9 17:14:21 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: More data on dead wall wart In-Reply-To: <20041209142755.K65479@shell.lmi.net> References: <20041209134538.F65479@shell.lmi.net> <20041209142755.K65479@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209163251.034b6eb8@pc> At 04:31 PM 12/9/2004, you wrote: >It looked like cheap commercial grade indoor/outdoor. But you could >probably get full specs from Greyhoud Exposition Services - just >don't trust anything that they say - at the time, they also claimed >that it was anti-static. I'm sorry, all answers from Exposition Services require a $100 non-refundable down-payment in advance. It's $200 if you want the answer carried from the loading dock to your booth. - John From brian at quarterbyte.com Thu Dec 9 17:30:16 2004 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Card punch? In-Reply-To: <200412091630.iB9GTUjl040783@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <41B86F88.8572.A1C1CC3@localhost> What's par for the course is that they have it classified as FSC code 5999 - Miscellanous electrical equipment. I have a standing search for 7040 (Punched Card Equipment), a category that they appear to use only for laser printers, monitors and photo-ID cameras. I suspect they just pull the numbers out of large bowl, lotto style. > http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=498212 It seems to be a keypunch/verifier, non-IBM. There also seem to be a couple of VT-100's in the lot, or close cousins, non-yellowed. Wonder if the keyboards are there. Someone with more storage space than I have should get this. And then tell me about it so I can enjoy it vicariously. Isn't it funny that keypunch/verifiers show up here and on ebay in the same week? Brian =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _| _| _| Brian Knittel _| _| _| Quarterbyte Systems, Inc. _| _| _| Tel: 1-510-559-7930 _| _| _| Fax: 1-510-525-6889 _| _| _| Email: brian@quarterbyte.com _| _| _| http://www.quarterbyte.com From melamy at earthlink.net Thu Dec 9 17:31:06 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Shugart 850 drives In-Reply-To: <33208.64.139.41.130.1102633830.squirrel@64.139.41.130> References: <33208.64.139.41.130.1102633830.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041209182814.03e9a1b0@mail.earthlink.net> a heads up on California Digital, Although the owner still answers the phone, the web site is basically bogus in that he sold off most everything last spring. He still has drives I believe and some few miscellaneous stuff like cp/m for the xerox 820 - just don't get to excited when you see "all" the stuff he says he sells. He just hasn't bothered to get anyone to change the web site. :10 PM 12/09/2004, Eric Smith wrote: >Tom Jennings wrote: > > So what's the story with 8" DSDD floppy drives these days? Are > > they still available at all? > >http://www.cadigital.com/flopdriv.htm From tomj at wps.com Thu Dec 9 17:33:24 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Shugart 850 drives In-Reply-To: <33208.64.139.41.130.1102633830.squirrel@64.139.41.130> References: <33208.64.139.41.130.1102633830.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Eric Smith wrote: > http://www.cadigital.com/flopdriv.htm holee ka-rap. OK, I can take a hint. I note that media is hard to find too, of the DSDD variety. Luckily I have 25 or so new-unused. I hope all the oxide doesn't fall off! There does seem to be some 8" SS media on ePay and elsewhere. Has it typically remained usable, assuming new-in-box? From tomj at wps.com Thu Dec 9 17:39:40 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: More data on dead wall wart In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041209163251.034b6eb8@pc> References: <20041209134538.F65479@shell.lmi.net> <20041209142755.K65479@shell.lmi.net> <6.2.0.14.2.20041209163251.034b6eb8@pc> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, John Foust wrote: > I'm sorry, all answers from Exposition Services require a $100 > non-refundable down-payment in advance. It's $200 if you want > the answer carried from the loading dock to your booth. AARGH! @###%#@! B.T.D.T. Need to plug in that computer? Let me get the guy. Oh wait, he's on break. I have to talk to the supervisor. He has to talk to the steward. We'll be there later today. Can't tell you when. (When they weren't hovering over you like obsequious waiters in some fake-brass-rail mall restaurant.) That'll be $100 (actual 1980 price). It's the sort of thing that gave unions a bad name; a long way from getting us 5-day/40hr work weeks (remember those? thank a corporation near you for ending them) to vacuuming your pockets. From melamy at earthlink.net Thu Dec 9 17:43:25 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? In-Reply-To: <20041209214337.79CF14A4C@spies.com> References: <20041209214337.79CF14A4C@spies.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041209183656.033d0490@mail.earthlink.net> the real ATA spec was not "approved" until 1990 or so - the hazards of being the first standard for such an interface. The ATA-1 and ATA-2 at least had a hardware line going to the drive to switch between 8 and 16 bit data paths to the drive. Any new drive would have to indicate compatibility with ATA-1 or ATA-2 to work with an older controller. It loosk like ATA-3 or 4 did away with an 8 bit transfer capability. Obviously no one is making ISA IDE controllers anymore, but one could design one that worked perfectly well with the new drives. One does not have to assume that the data bus to the drive must match the data path to memory At 04:43 PM 12/09/2004, you wrote: > I thought they were somehow "ATA compliant". I >assume you're talking about the interface between the drive and the >controller, right? > >-- > >The issue is what data bus width is assumed during DMA transfers. >16 bits is 'normal'. Apparently, it was possible to do 8 bit DMA >transfers on early drives. I've not looked at the interface for >CF. Guess it's possible 8 bits is supported there as well. From melamy at earthlink.net Thu Dec 9 17:46:22 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Shugart 850 drives In-Reply-To: References: <33208.64.139.41.130.1102633830.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041209184410.03e9d460@mail.earthlink.net> I have been moving data off 8" disks recently that I have keep in dry storage for over 25 years. I, for the most part, have had no problem reading those disks or formatting "new" disks that I have kept for the same amount of time. But then again, I have no had mice living in my floppy drives... :) At 06:33 PM 12/09/2004, Tom Jennings wrote: >On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Eric Smith wrote: > > > http://www.cadigital.com/flopdriv.htm > >holee ka-rap. OK, I can take a hint. I note that media is >hard to find too, of the DSDD variety. Luckily I have 25 or >so new-unused. I hope all the oxide doesn't fall off! > >There does seem to be some 8" SS media on ePay and elsewhere. Has >it typically remained usable, assuming new-in-box? From tomj at wps.com Thu Dec 9 18:00:06 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: my CP/M-80 pile'o'gunk Message-ID: I started inventorying the manuals a week ago, below is a bad copy of the spreadsheet, in two parts (software and hardware). A lot of it is common (Cromemco), maybe a few others are of interest: Phoenix Software PDOS. Manuals and software (pasm, plink, plib, etc) but also linkable objects to make the operating system (Z80, very high-perf (sic), CP/M-80 superset). JRT Pascal, 8", CP/M-80, xeroxed manual, includes letter mentioning the price drop from $250 to $25! Microsoft BASIC Compiler, 8" flop, CP/M-80, xeroxed manual. Software sucked then, probably amusing now. I have enough boot disks to simply bring the machine up (assuming the hardware doesn't catch fire, etc) and copy the files off. I once had some weird EPROM burner, brand forgotten, that wanted input as Intel hex, so I have a program called ZAPLOAD that converts to hex; I'll convert (assuming it does files > RAM) and send out the serial port as text using Telink, my old XMODEM program (or at worst, PIP) to my linux laptop. Twice for good measure, diff. It will have to wait until the rest of the machine arrives. I assume no one ever got an 8" flop going under DOS/Win/Linux? If any manuals are not floating around, I'll scan and make available. quan manual software location tomj TJ's mongrel computer (FIDO) hardware configuration 2/10/81 S1000 binder covered sheets; IO ports, boot/bugger manual Phoenix Software Associates Ltd PDOS User's Guide 1.0 1 yes ? S1000 binder CSSN-labelled copy in S1000 binder Phoenix Software Associates Ltd PDOS Programmer's Guide 1 yes ? S1000 binder 29227 Phoenix Software Associates Ltd PASM Users Manual 1 yes ? S1000 binder rev 1.0, 1 Feb 80 Phoenix Software Associates Ltd TEXT EDITOR User's Manual 1 yes ? S1000 binder 29202 Phoenix Software Associates Ltd LINK User's Manual 1 yes ? S1000 binder 29202 Phoenix Software Associates Ltd Plink II 1 yes ? S1000 binder 15 Jan 81, xerox, Lifeboat Associates Phoenix Software Associates Ltd BUG/uBUG 1 yes ? S1000 binder 29202 Computer Service Systems Network Inc (CSSN) Backup 1 yes ? S1000 binder written by tomj, undated, includes 25 Nov 80 addendum larger than the manual Microsoft, Inc MBASIC Compiler 1 yes probably, 8? flop Black binder Digital Research CP/M 2.2 Users Guide 1 yes yes CPM80 binder xerox Digital Research CP/M 2.2 Interface Guide 1 yes yes CPM80 binder xerox Digital Research CP/M 2.2 Alteration Guide 1 yes yes CPM80 binder xerox Digital Research CP/M Assembler (ASM) User's Guide 1 yes yes CPM80 binder original looseleaf Digital Research An Introduction of CP/M Features and Facilities 1 yes yes CPM80 binder original looseleaf Digital Research CP/M Interface Guide 1 yes ? CPM80 binder 1.4 I think Digital Research ED: A context editor for the CP/M disk system users manual 1 yes ? CPM80 binder 1.4 I think Digital Research CP/M Dynamic Debugger Tool (DDT) User's Guide 1 yes yes CPM80 binder 1.4 I think Digital Research CP/M System Alteration Guide 1 yes yes CPM80 binder 1.4 I think Alloy Computer Products TIP (Tape Interchange Package) 1 yes ? JRT ? JRT Pascal 1 yes yes blue binder 1982 quan manual software location HARDWARE Mountain Hardware Inc 100,000 day clock 1 yes Two manuals, different versions Teletek FDC-1 1 yes Scitronics Inc Real Time Clock 1 yes Cromemco TU-ART 2 yes Macrotech International Corp. SS256 1 ? 36ea HM4864P-2's Alloy Engineering S100/DEI 1 yes yes tape interface Central Data Corp. 64K RAM 1 yes Measurement Systems and Controls Inc DM6400 1 yes 64K RAM; rev C Cromemco 32K Bytesaver 1 ? no Cromemco ZPU 1 yes fido Modified as per LITTLE FIDO Cromemco 4FDC 1 yes yes fido Modified as per LITTLE FIDO Cromemco 16FDC 1 yes Cromemco RDOS ? yes EPROM on 4FDC card? Seattle Computer Products 16K PLUS ? yes static memory Industrial Micro Systems Inc Model 370 32K RAM ? yes Data Electronics Inc The Funnel ? yes yes fits Alloy card CMC Marketing Inc Model 2018R 1 yes fido notes for fromt panel in rear Microft Inc EPROM board 1 yes yes fido TC's homemade board Cromemco PRI 1 yes yes ? Solid State Music Microcomputer Products Inc VB3A 80-char video 1 yes yes fido TeleVideo Inc Operators Reference Manual 1 yes n/a Manual is for TVI-912B, 920B, 912C, 920C TeleVideo Inc 912, 920 Operating Instructions 1 yes n/a Shugart Associates SA800/801 Diskette Storage Drive yes n/a From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 9 18:19:13 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: my CP/M-80 pile'o'gunk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40418.64.139.41.130.1102637953.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Tom wrote: > I assume no one ever got an 8" flop going under DOS/Win/Linux? You know what happens when you assume. :-) Some PC floppy controllers can handle single density (FM) and others can't. All can handle double density (MFM). I was lucky with both motherboards I've used for this, an Asus P2B-F (Pentium 2/3 slot 1) and an Asus A7M266-D (dual Athlon). It's easy to get them working in Linux. You just need an appropriate cable. If you just want a "raw" image, you can use the setfdprm utility (from the util-linux or fdutils packages) to set the parameters (bytes per sector, etc.). Then you can dd the contents of the floppy to a file. I archive the contents of 8-inch disks into DMK format using a program I wrote called rfloppy, which is part of my dmklib package: http://dmklib.brouhaha.com/ It automatically figures out the characteristics of the floppy. Eric From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 9 18:34:03 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: my CP/M-80 pile'o'gunk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041209163149.Q70229@shell.lmi.net> On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > I assume no one ever got an 8" flop going under DOS/Win/Linux? I used 8" a lot, using the Vista and Maynard controllers in PC/5150 and XTs. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Dec 9 18:55:36 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: More data on dead wall wart Message-ID: <200412100055.QAA10995@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Fred Cisin" > >> > One year, at the West Coast Computer Faire, we repaired >> > 5 TRS80 ones for other exhibitors ('spose the flaky power >> > at Brooks Hall might be responsible?). >> > We opened them by flinging them down onto a carpeted concrete floor. > >On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: >> Shag, berber, or ...? > >It looked like cheap commercial grade indoor/outdoor. But you could >probably get full specs from Greyhoud Exposition Services - just >don't trust anything that they say - at the time, they also claimed >that it was anti-static. > >Fortunately, all 5 were just blown fuse, the common failure of those >warts. > Hi I've seen two types of failure for non-fuse warts. One is that the primary wire blows on the top of the primary winding but there is other visual damage. This is almost always fixed by simply jumpering a new piece of magnet wire ( should be the same guage to provide proper protection ). The other is that there has been some obvious over heating of the primary wire. These are always fatal. Dwight From chd_1 at nktelco.net Thu Dec 9 18:59:43 2004 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Dilog DU130 manual or docs request Message-ID: <41B8F4FF.2020507@nktelco.net> I have a DU130 without any documentation. I think it acts like a TM11 with a Pertec tape interface. Anybody have any docs for this? From aek at spies.com Thu Dec 9 19:19:55 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Dilog DU130 manual or docs request Message-ID: <20041210011955.C2F384927@spies.com> I think it acts like a TM11 with a Pertec tape interface. -- correct. DU132's simulated TS11s both are for pertec formatted interfaces. I thought I had manuals for the 130 and 132, but they haven't surfaced. Would be nice to get them scanned and archived on bitsavers. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 9 19:30:58 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? In-Reply-To: <41B8BD9A.27238.24BA1624@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Dec 9, 4 09:03:22 pm Message-ID: > Well, original ATA was nothing more than a straight forward > adaption of the MFM controler - and that one was still good > for 8 Bit access. Also, there was never (at least in the beginning) You do realise that the XT disk controller and AT disk controller are totally different things (and have a different software interface). AFAIK the AT hard disk controller assumes a 16 bit bus, at least for the data transfer register. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 9 19:18:00 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: More data on dead wall wart In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Dec 8, 4 09:53:22 pm Message-ID: > > > So I double checked the AC voltage output on this TI wall wart for the > Silent 700 model 703 and it definitely has no voltage (and correction on > my meter settings: it has 200VAC and 600VAC). > > I also checked and there is infinite resistance between any combination > of pins (I checked on all settings from 2 ohms to 20 Mohms). For the hell > of it I checked for DC voltage and there also is none. On both the primary (between the mains plug live and neutral pins) and secondary (between the output connector pins)? That is unusual, it would appear you have at least 2 fualts. You are sure your meter is working properly? > > Foo. > > Next step is to crack it open. Anyone know a good way to open up these > permanently sealed transformers? I've found puttling a flat, and fairly blunt 'blade' (the edge of a metal strip, for example) along the obvious joint in the case and then tapping it with a light hammer works quite well. Don't try oprise the joint apart, you will mark the case. You're trying to crack the glue bond. That works for dismandling the HP calculator (classic, topcat) battery packs too. -tony From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Dec 9 19:48:22 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? References: <000801c4dccd$e1aa0940$6401a8c0@dcohoe> Message-ID: <003b01c4de5a$562ba3e0$0100a8c0@screamer> I was also recently given a 2648, in excellent condition. I have documentation for the 2649, and its fairly clear what sub-set of features are present on the 2648. Limited IPL drivers already exist (but are not on the web site yet). A full set of IPL drivers for the graphics functions are being developed. Its kinda odd how these terminals 'wake-up' with the text input directed to the graphical display rather than the alpha display layer. Makes looking at directories after cold-booting painful, so I had to write the basic terminal mode control code right off the bat. From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Dec 9 19:51:56 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? References: <3.0.6.32.20041207174127.007d0ce0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><3.0.6.32.20041207225208.007cec80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><200412080536.iB85aLrG018510@lots.reanimators.org> <1102512104.10215.9.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <003f01c4de5a$d5638ab0$0100a8c0@screamer> Here's a little about your 2115 find. They are by far, the most rare HP 1000 series processor. Other than the one you mentioned, I'm only aware of 3 others known to exist, and one of those is an unconfirmed rumor. If you have any problems getting it running, I can help you out with schematics and some spare parts. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jules Richardson" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 8:21 AM Subject: Re: Got a HP 2648. Now what? > On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 21:36 -0800, Frank McConnell wrote: > >> I don't know what option 032 is, but I used to have a 2648A w/HP-IB >> under my care at a previous employer. It was how the plotter (a 9872) >> was connected, and the office-automation graphics software on the HP3000 >> (DSG/3000, HPDRAW, EZCHART) knew how to use it. >> > > That's a good point; I've seen such a plotter in some of the HP surplus > I've been sorting through recently. Also a large digitiser which is > presumably HP-IB. Lots of little thermal printers too, plus stacks of > HP-80 series add-ons. I thought it was all going to be a pile of junk, > but there was some really nice stuff in there - will try and get a list > together this weekend (this is where I unearthed the 2115A too) > >> I remember writing some little hacks on the 3000 to send HP-GL to the >> plotter to make it do stuff (before we got HPDRAW &c on the 3000), but >> don't remember how they worked; > > I might be looking for some HP3000 software if anyone out there has any. > We hooked one up the other day and so far it seems to be working (it was > only intended as a static exhibit!) so making it *do* something is an > option. I've only seen alignment packs for the drives so far, and > nothing on tape though. > > I confess to being totally ignorant about HP stuff! :-) > > cheers > > Jules > From tomj at wps.com Thu Dec 9 20:00:45 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Shugart 850 drives In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041209184410.03e9d460@mail.earthlink.net> References: <33208.64.139.41.130.1102633830.squirrel@64.139.41.130> <6.1.2.0.2.20041209184410.03e9d460@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Steve Thatcher wrote: > I have been moving data off 8" disks recently that I have keep in dry storage > for over 25 years. I, for the most part, have had no problem reading those > disks or formatting "new" disks that I have kept for the same amount of time. > > But then again, I have no had mice living in my floppy drives... :) That's good to hear. The mouse thing was odd; the floppy chassis spent most of it's time on a desk in a bedroom-turned office. The mice had to travel a ways to get into the disk cabinet, where they took up residence in A:, nibbled the stepper leads down to (repairable) nubs, crapped/peed in a toilet area convenient for meeses but poor for P.C. board life, left B: alone (I swapped, etc) and nibbled the edge off the 50-pin ribbon cable. Luckily only one conductor, for about 4", so I'll repair it. I suppose being mammals everything they do is oddly ingenious. If the A: Shugart 851 PC board is ruined it'll make a nice repair unit, as it's great mechanically, just swap the board. The floppies (media) are clean and as neat as when they were stored 20 years ago (unless they went in dirty, and a Magic Elf took them out and cleaned them) so I anticipate no particular problems. A couple boxes worth of new DSDD of various brands, plus I have a new/sealed box of DSDD Verbatim (not Dysan like I thought, too bad) I bought from a stationary store that was (big surprise) going out of business. From tomj at wps.com Thu Dec 9 20:10:37 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: my CP/M-80 pile'o'gunk In-Reply-To: <40418.64.139.41.130.1102637953.squirrel@64.139.41.130> References: <40418.64.139.41.130.1102637953.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Eric Smith wrote: > Some PC floppy controllers can handle single density (FM) and others > can't. All can handle double density (MFM). I was lucky with both > motherboards I've used for this, an Asus P2B-F (Pentium 2/3 slot 1) and > an Asus A7M266-D (dual Athlon). Cool! My big (sic) home linux box is a 1998-vintage Asus board, might even be a P2B variant. > It's easy to get them working in Linux. You just need an appropriate > cable. I can RTFM, but is this a handwired cable? Is there any vestigial correspondence between floppy pinouts (3.5, 5.25. 8)?! > If you just want a "raw" image, you can use the setfdprm utility > (from the util-linux or fdutils packages) to set the parameters (bytes > per sector, etc.). Then you can dd the contents of the floppy to a file. I figured decoding CPM disks is pretty much done, and trivial if I gotta cobble it up. I'll do it in Perl! > I archive the contents of 8-inch disks into DMK format using a > program I wrote called rfloppy, which is part of my dmklib package: > http://dmklib.brouhaha.com/ > It automatically figures out the characteristics of the floppy. WIll go look at tonight! From tomj at wps.com Thu Dec 9 20:16:24 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: my CP/M-80 pile'o'gunk In-Reply-To: <40418.64.139.41.130.1102637953.squirrel@64.139.41.130> References: <40418.64.139.41.130.1102637953.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Eric Smith wrote: > I archive the contents of 8-inch disks into DMK format using a > program I wrote called rfloppy, which is part of my dmklib package: > http://dmklib.brouhaha.com/ > It automatically figures out the characteristics of the floppy. (I took a quick look) wow, that's emulation! BTW, I have on diskette (8") TRS-80 Model 1 C compiler stuff, for that wacky 4300h TPA start business. I'll of course make it available. I don't even recall who's compiler. From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Dec 9 20:21:53 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: IMLAC - what happened to assembler, emulator? References: <41B42B59.9080405@iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <006b01c4de5f$04c5fc80$0100a8c0@screamer> I've got some documentation that might help. I also have an Imlac, a very early PDS-1 'alpha' machine. (it cannot run Mazewar). There are several block loaders I have the source code for, some written for paper tape, others for the serial interface. There are also two formats for the paper tape code, 8-bit and 4-bit modes, each with its own block loader program, for each interface of course. I'll try to post a summary of the 8-bit and 4-bit formats. Tom Uban has some information on the loaders, and some code he used to get his PDS-1D on the air listed on his web site. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Wilson" To: Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:50 AM Subject: IMLAC - what happened to assembler, emulator? > Hi all, > > I've been lurking here since a slashdot article on the > 30th anniversary of Maze, the first lan/wan FPS, which was > run on an IMLAC. > > I was very interested in this as I programmed an IMLAC - > PDS-4, I guess - in 1977/8 at Sydney University (au) and > have good memories of the machine. > > I saw hints on the list that an assembler was imminent > and an emulator was under consideration. That was September > 2002, and nothing since. I am really interested in an > emulator - I have an emulation of the main processor running > and got it loading 'paper tapes' from disk via the paper > tape boot loader. I've used this to load code from hand > assembled files to test the emulation and I would like to > go a little further a little faster. > > Does anybody have information on the format of the data the > papertape block-loader reads and loads? The block loader is > the first thing the boot loader runs - it reads in the rest > of the tape. > > Also, does anyone know of or has any software (source or binary) > on papertape or any other form? I have no idea of the current > ownership, if any, of the existing IMLAC software, and I could > write an assembler, but it's so much more cool to run the IMLAC assembler! > > TIA, > Ross From allain at panix.com Thu Dec 9 20:30:20 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 3.3 volts References: Message-ID: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Today I started mothballing the VAX 6000 and noticed that a large part of its power supply is on 3.3 volts, now common, but probably not in 1988. Seems like something was invented, probably in chip design that made 3.3 so useful. I wonder what that was, when that landmark was reached. (For that matter, I don't really know why 5V and 12V were popular, on a "first priinciples" basis.) Maybe we've lost some of the people on the list who can answer these questions, but I'm trying anyway. John A From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 9 20:34:26 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: my CP/M-80 pile'o'gunk In-Reply-To: References: <40418.64.139.41.130.1102637953.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: <52478.64.139.41.130.1102646066.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Tom asks: > I can RTFM, but is this a handwired cable? Is there any vestigial > correspondence between floppy pinouts (3.5, 5.25. 8)?! 3.5 and 5.25 are the same, but 8 is completely different. If you want to *write* 8-inch disks, you need something to generate the TG43 (Track Greater than 43) signal that controls the write current. Not necessary if you only want to read. The D-Bit FDADAP floppy disk adapter can be used if you don't want to wire up a random cable. It also has a PIC that generates the TG43 signal. http://www.dbit.com/fdadap.html >> I archive the contents of 8-inch disks into DMK format using a > WIll go look at tonight! If you want to decode CP/M disks, and you use my rfloppy program to read them into DMK format, you can then use the included dmk2raw program to extract just the actual sector contents from the DMK file, which will then be easier to manipulate with other programs or scripting languages. Eric From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Dec 9 20:43:40 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? In-Reply-To: <003b01c4de5a$562ba3e0$0100a8c0@screamer> References: <000801c4dccd$e1aa0940$6401a8c0@dcohoe> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041209214340.009436d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:48 PM 12/9/04 -0500, Bob wrote: >I was also recently given a 2648, in excellent condition. > >I have documentation for the 2649, and its fairly clear what sub-set of >features >are present on the 2648. Nice! Can you make a copy for me or scan them and post them somewhere? I went back today and got the third 2648. It was pretty busted up but the CRT in it looks real good. I think I found all the cards so I should have plenty of spare parts too. One of the 2648s that I got early is complete but the screen is real spotty. I'm planning on putting the CRT out of the one that I got today in it. That should give me an extra in case Jay seriously wants one. Joe From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 9 20:45:01 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 3.3 volts In-Reply-To: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <53358.64.139.41.130.1102646701.squirrel@64.139.41.130> John wrote: > Seems like something was invented, probably in chip design that made > 3.3 so useful. I wonder what that was, when that landmark was reached. AFAIK, there's nothing particularly magic about 3.3V. CMOS can be designed or optimized for a wide range of voltages, and 3.3V just happened to "win" as one of the most common. But there are also systems that run on 3.0 and other voltages. And most modern VLSI chips actually use lower voltages for the core logic than the I/O, so it's common to see chips with a 1.2, 1.5, 1.8, 2.0, or 2.5V core supply, while 3.3V is still common for the I/O supply. Some chips with 3.3V I/O are "5V tolerant", but many are not. Anyhow, the migration from 5V to 3.3V was mainly motivated by two things: 1) reducing power consumption 2) reducing field strength in high-density IC core circuitry to avoid damage Eric From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Dec 9 20:51:02 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 3.3 volts In-Reply-To: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041209215102.00945660@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:30 PM 12/9/04 -0500, you wrote: >Today I started mothballing the VAX 6000 and noticed that a large part >of its power supply is on 3.3 volts, now common, but probably not in 1988. > >Seems like something was invented, probably in chip design that made >3.3 so useful. I wonder what that was, when that landmark was reached. It wasn't a new invention. In was the fact that ICs were getting so dense that they couldn't squeeze in any more circuits unless they could reduce the space that the insualting layers took up. The layers were already so thin that they'd break down at about 5 1/2 volt so they had to reduce the voltage to 3.3 volts. Since then they've further reduced it to 1.8 volts and (I think) now to 1.1 volts. And there are plans to reduce it even more. All so that they can reduce the bulk of the insulating layers and add more gates. Joe From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 9 20:56:21 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: my CP/M-80 pile'o'gunk In-Reply-To: References: <40418.64.139.41.130.1102637953.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: <53801.64.139.41.130.1102647381.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Tom wrote: > I figured decoding CPM disks is pretty much done, and trivial > if I gotta cobble it up. I'll do it in Perl! For Linux it's done: http://www.moria.de/~michael/cpmtools/cpmtools-2.4.tar.gz I haven't tried to use that on the output of my rfloppy->dmk2raw programs, but if it doesn't work it should probably be fairly easy to adapt it. Reportedly "yaze" (now "yaze-ag"?) is a very good simulator for running CP/M software on Linux, but I have not yet tried it. Eric From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Dec 9 21:25:31 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:15 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? References: <000801c4dccd$e1aa0940$6401a8c0@dcohoe> <3.0.6.32.20041209214340.009436d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <008901c4de67$e856b1d0$0100a8c0@screamer> Jay wants one, has for a long long time. I have a 2645 and a 2649G, but both are DOA. Jay wanted these when he was here for VCF East, but time never allowed me to load them into his trailer (which didn't have room anyway). I was going to trade these to him just a few weeks ago, but I tried to get any sign of life out of either of them, so I dropped the ball. These are not in good enough shape to be worth shipping whole. Both have mold on their CRT's. When I got the 2648 given to me (with a 7440 plotter), I was going to send it along to Jay, but..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 9:43 PM Subject: Re: Got a HP 2648. Now what? > At 08:48 PM 12/9/04 -0500, Bob wrote: >>I was also recently given a 2648, in excellent condition. >> >>I have documentation for the 2649, and its fairly clear what sub-set of >>features >>are present on the 2648. > > Nice! Can you make a copy for me or scan them and post them somewhere? > > I went back today and got the third 2648. It was pretty busted up but the > CRT in it looks real good. I think I found all the cards so I should have > plenty of spare parts too. One of the 2648s that I got early is complete > but the screen is real spotty. I'm planning on putting the CRT out of the > one that I got today in it. That should give me an extra in case Jay > seriously wants one. > > Joe > From aek at spies.com Thu Dec 9 21:51:23 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: my CP/M-80 pile'o'gunk Message-ID: <20041210035123.9FFC94927@spies.com> I haven't tried to use that on the output of my rfloppy->dmk2raw programs, but if it doesn't work it should probably be fairly easy to adapt it. -- It works fine. Tom, I have a Qume DT8 you can borrow to read your discs. Send an adr offlist and I'll send it off. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Dec 9 22:52:15 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > > I'll keep going: > > So. Are there any women (left) on this list? Hmm... I wonder why. There used to be one. She no longer is with us here. I think she more got fed up with the general unruliness of the list more than anything. Anyway, we may speak about PCs, but we're certainly not PC. At least I'm not. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Dec 9 22:57:44 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: Shugart 850 drives In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041209182814.03e9a1b0@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Steve Thatcher wrote: > a heads up on California Digital, Although the owner still answers the > phone, the web site is basically bogus in that he sold off most everything > last spring. He still has drives I believe and some few miscellaneous stuff Oh yeah? Who did he sell it to? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Dec 9 23:04:18 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 3.3 volts In-Reply-To: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: > Today I started mothballing the VAX 6000 and noticed that a large part > of its power supply is on 3.3 volts, now common, but probably not in 1988. > > Seems like something was invented, probably in chip design that made > 3.3 so useful. I wonder what that was, when that landmark was reached. Not likely in the 6000, but large machines sometimes have a supply of lesser voltage for use in the bus terminations (like the -2.0 volts found in both 10K and 100K ECL machines). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vax9000 at gmail.com Thu Dec 9 23:04:28 2004 From: vax9000 at gmail.com (9000 VAX) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 3.3 volts In-Reply-To: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 21:30:20 -0500, John Allain wrote: > Today I started mothballing the VAX 6000 and noticed that a large part > of its power supply is on 3.3 volts, now common, but probably not in 1988. > > Seems like something was invented, probably in chip design that made > 3.3 so useful. I wonder what that was, when that landmark was reached. > > (For that matter, I don't really know why 5V and > 12V were popular, on a "first priinciples" basis.) > > Maybe we've lost some of the people on the list who can answer these > questions, but I'm trying anyway. Well, I think I can answer those two questions about 5V and 12V, though I am expecting 40~50 more years to live. 5V is popular because of TTL. TTL is made of bipolar technology on silicon. Take a look of a simple NAND gate, and tune the voltages of those transistors for speed, you end up with 5V power supply. 12V is popular because it is a multiple of 2V, which is the voltage of lead battery. It is also a multiple of 1.5V, which is the voltage of MnZn battery. Cars used lead bettery, and 12V was chosen (with 6 cells). I think this fact also increased its popularity. I am pretty sure that the 5V answer is accurate. There might be better reasons why 12V is popular. vax, 9000 > > John A > > From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Dec 9 23:21:16 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 3.3 volts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > vax, 9000 Did anyone save any VAX 9000s? I saw one at a junkyard several years back. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Thu Dec 9 22:40:17 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: Shugart 850 drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41B928B1.6010003@compsys.to> >Tom Jennings wrote: >So what's the story with 8" DSDD floppy drives these days? Are >they still available at all? I may need one for my old CP/M-80 >machine; some meeces made a nice house and toilet in one. B: is >now a single-sided drive, good enough for now, but not later, >as the spindle bearing is VERY NOISY (always was). There may >be a spare DSDD drive in a box of junk and/or I may recover >the one that went weewee. > > Jerome Fine replies: DSD (Data System Design) made a DSD 880/30 box which emulated a DEC RX02. However, the drive was actually able to handle DSDD 8" floppy media, so I suspect that it might be able to do what you need. While there used to be a fair demand for these drives, I doubt that there still is. As for the actual media, while SSDD 8" floppy media had an index hole in a different location, I became tired of having to punch the extra pair of holes to allow single sided media to be used as double sided. I placed a DPDT switch in the detector circuit and it allowed SSDD media to be used as DSDD media (after a LLF of course). What I found curious was that of the dozen or so different brands of 8" floppy media that I used, I had zero failures on the second side when they were converted from SSDD to DSDD - EXCEPT for one brand from DEC which had originally carried some distributions. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From tomj at wps.com Fri Dec 10 00:27:47 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: my CP/M-80 pile'o'gunk In-Reply-To: <52478.64.139.41.130.1102646066.squirrel@64.139.41.130> References: <40418.64.139.41.130.1102637953.squirrel@64.139.41.130> <52478.64.139.41.130.1102646066.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Eric Smith wrote: > 3.5 and 5.25 are the same, but 8 is completely different. As I thought! > If you want to *write* 8-inch disks, you need something to generate > the TG43 (Track Greater than 43) signal that controls the write > current. Not necessary if you only want to read. I remember that write-comp sniggle. And... > http://www.dbit.com/fdadap.html ...that thing is totally great. I will get one of those if I go that route. It's a bargain! Hopefully the CPM machine can do what I want. I imagine I'll have a burst of energy and will write a bunch of software on it to do this sort of thing. From chenmel at earthlink.net Fri Dec 10 00:33:26 2004 From: chenmel at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? In-Reply-To: References: <20041208203412.G49412@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <3dgir01mbr5p30vdumg3616a7lrk69f9bf@4ax.com> On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 00:41:21 -0500, you wrote: >On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 20:55:55 -0800 (PST), Fred Cisin wrote: >> > On Sun, 5 Dec 2004, Jim Leonard wrote: >> > > I have a few IBM model 5150s that I use to code entries for programming >> > > competitions and I'd like to try to speed up the hard disk in any way possible. >> > > (If you're curious what my last project was, check out >> > > http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=13722 to download and try it out -- it >> > > displays full-screen full-motion color video with sync'd sound -- yes, on a >> > > 4.77MHz 8088, no fooling). I've been looking for any way to speed up the hard >> > > disk subsystem (currently WD1002 with Seagate ST225) and I simply can't get >> > > more than 130KB/s out of the darn thing... so: >> >> Yes, there ARE some XT controllers that claim to do 1:1. >> I do NOT remember WHICH ones. >> Yes, there ARE some 8 bit IDE controllers, >> but not all IDE drives will work with them. >There are 8 bit SCSI controllers too. Once I sold two to one guy for >$10. Both used NCR 53c90, both had ROM and were bootable. > >> >> On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >> > Hey Jim. >> > Are you allowed to use more modern versions of DOS (i.e. post 3.3)? If >> > so, why not use a version that has SmartDrive built in? Better yet, use >> > Speedstor or some equally capable caching utility. Or will caching not >> > work for your purposes? >> >> SMARTDRV was bundled with Windoze 3.10, and will work with >> some of the <3.30 DOS versions. >> But you need to use 3.31 or newer to have any partitions >> larger than 32M. >XT's do not have more than 640K memory, thus SMARTDRV is not very useful. > True, but sometimes 640K is more than enough. I used to run a WWIV BBS (the version 3 that was distributed only as Turbo Pascal source code). It would run quite well in about 128K on a PC-XT clone. It had a rather horrendous design, though, with each message posted by a user being a discrete file in one horrendous big directory on the drive. It made a ton of noise and was quite slow at scrolling through the messages. I loaded in a big fat cache (about 300K,) using a TSR made by Central Point Software, that ran in low DOS memory. It made the machine run quite well for a single-user BBS. After a fresh boot, it would rattle and whoosh the 5 meg hard drive for a bit as callers ran through the message base, but then eventually settle down and run almost entirely out of RAM, except for disk writes. 640K WAS enough for that application (ducks). >vax, 9000 > >> >> The DOS 6.2x version of SMARTDRV has some very important >> changes that "solved the problems with DoubleSpace": >> it defaults to doing read caching, but NOT write caching, >> if write caching is turned on, it no longer rearranges the sequence of the >> writes, >> when a program ends, it will not present the DOS prompt until the write >> caching buffer is flushed. >> >> -- >> Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com >> From Saquinn624 at aol.com Fri Dec 10 00:43:27 2004 From: Saquinn624 at aol.com (Saquinn624@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: 8" floppy drive Message-ID: <6d.3a39e75c.2eea9f8f@aol.com> If you can read the disks, this might be of interest http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/cm/8-525.html - cabling to use a 5.25" HD (1.2MB) drive in place of an 8" and http://nemesis.lonestar.org/computers/tandy/hardware/model16_6000/floppyfix.ht ml hints specific to the TRS80 Found it on the web and have it in the pile of projects to try out on my Z-80 when I get around to it. although I don't know how much longer 5.25 HD diskettes will be easy to get- Scott Quinn P.S. I'm new to Classic Computing, so don't take my word for it-please double check before risking your machine From tomj at wps.com Fri Dec 10 00:55:12 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: References: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: I think in general "standard" voltages are utterly arbitrary, at the him of mortals picking numbers they "like". > 5V is popular because of TTL. Probably the 60's TTL people could tell you why they chose that particular number. If I had to guess, I'd say some design region was around that voltage, and they arbitrarily rounded it off for marketing purposes. 5.0 sounds so much more authoritative than 5.2V or whatever. I doubt physics has much to do with it, once the design region is chosen. 6v RTL etc is probably someone's favorite number, relating to bad habits and dry cells. It sound so modern and portable! (The hot electronics gadget in 1964? Pocket radio. As nifty as a cellphone in 1998, seriously.) > 12V is popular because it is a multiple of 2V, which is the voltage of > lead battery. It's actually not; lead-acid cells are 2.2V, and nominal is 13.7V, or 14.4, 12v is only a random point on the discharge or load/internal resistance curve. For things that ran on "dry cells" of the 1.52v variety there is some correlation; go look at the portable radio electron tube filament ratings, but they too are "nominal" due to internal resistance and discharge. A lot of these numbers got made up in WWII when lots of sub-miniature dry-cell-powered things started to appear, as multiples of 1.5V. From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Dec 10 01:04:58 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 Message-ID: <0412100704.AA03450@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Antonio Carlini wrote: > The DSV-11 was rated at 256kbps but > it can actually do either a tiny smidgen over (or a tiny > smidgen under) 1Mbps on a worst case HDLC sequence, > essentially forever. Hmm, interesting. I assume that's the limit for single channel operation, right? Do you know the true limit for operation with both channels? (64 kbps officially.) MS From Saquinn624 at aol.com Fri Dec 10 01:11:56 2004 From: Saquinn624 at aol.com (Saquinn624@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: Apollo 425e-looking for keyboard & Domain/OS Message-ID: <1ed.30b8adc0.2eeaa63c@aol.com> I aquired a "bare box" (HP/) Apollo 425e machine + memory & CD-ROM several months ago. What I have heard about Apollos sounds neat, but is geared towards people with complete systems. (1) I have no Domain keyboard, and from what I have seen the system does not automatically switch to serial for console, I've even tried it with the service switch set to "service"-it will display firmware self-test info on the graphics display and stop, but nothing on the TTY. Is there anyone with a extra Domain keyboard to sell or ideas for a way to use it without a Domain or HIL keyboard. (2) Domain/OS seems to be the neatest OS to run on it, does anyone have a copy of Domain/OS they would be interested in selling/trading? Scott Quinn P.S. My apologies if this is an inappropriate use of the list. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Dec 10 03:56:35 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: References: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <1102672595.13275.7.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-12-09 at 22:55 -0800, Tom Jennings wrote: > I think in general "standard" voltages are utterly arbitrary, > at the him of mortals picking numbers they "like". Out of interest, why do we use 50Hz power in the UK and 60Hz in the US? (I don't mean why are they different, I mean why those numbers) I saw yesterday a claim that the 60Hz in the US was a Tesla invention, but the info didn't elaborate on why he chose that figure if so... Wouldn't surprise me if there was a connection to the telegraph system, of course. cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Dec 10 03:58:13 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1102672693.13292.10.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-12-09 at 20:52 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > > > > I'll keep going: > > > > So. Are there any women (left) on this list? Hmm... I wonder why. > > There used to be one. She no longer is with us here. I think she more > got fed up with the general unruliness of the list more than anything. Was that Alison? I remember the name from the list way back and wondered what had happened to her, she seemed pretty clued-up on things. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Dec 10 04:03:57 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? In-Reply-To: <008901c4de67$e856b1d0$0100a8c0@screamer> References: <000801c4dccd$e1aa0940$6401a8c0@dcohoe> <3.0.6.32.20041209214340.009436d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <008901c4de67$e856b1d0$0100a8c0@screamer> Message-ID: <1102673037.13292.15.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-12-09 at 22:25 -0500, Bob Shannon wrote: > Jay wants one, has for a long long time. > > I have a 2645 and a 2649G, but both are DOA. > > Both have mold on their CRT's. That seems to be a common problem with our HP terminals, although everything else from the same era is fine. (Couldn't tell you exact model numbers yet as all of HPs numbers blur into one after a while! I'm still organising our piles of HP surplus prior to making a list of what there actually is) cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Dec 10 04:12:02 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? In-Reply-To: <003f01c4de5a$d5638ab0$0100a8c0@screamer> References: <3.0.6.32.20041207174127.007d0ce0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041207225208.007cec80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200412080536.iB85aLrG018510@lots.reanimators.org> <1102512104.10215.9.camel@weka.localdomain> <003f01c4de5a$d5638ab0$0100a8c0@screamer> Message-ID: <1102673522.13275.24.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-12-09 at 20:51 -0500, Bob Shannon wrote: > Here's a little about your 2115 find. > > They are by far, the most rare HP 1000 series processor. > > Other than the one you mentioned, I'm only aware of 3 others > known to exist, and one of those is an unconfirmed rumor. Nice! Well it's nice and safe in warm storage now. I found a 2116B and a 2116C too, plus a matching paper tape reader. Still no PSU for the 2115A, but I'm maybe only a third through the heap so far and all the good stuff seems to be at the bottom! (Luckily whoever sent it years ago knew how to package stuff, it's just that whoever delivered it poured it into huge piles across three rooms!) > If you have any problems getting it running, I can help you out > with schematics and some spare parts. Thanks! I haven't found any docs or anything for them yet, but there are lots of boxes full of documentation which I've only had chance to flick through so far (seems to mainly be HP-85 stuff at first glance) cheers Jules From Hans.Franke at siemens.com Fri Dec 10 04:54:37 2004 From: Hans.Franke at siemens.com (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? In-Reply-To: References: <20041208203412.G49412@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <41B98E7D.7893.27EA0E63@localhost> Am 9 Dec 2004 0:41 meinte 9000 VAX: > > On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > Hey Jim. > > > Are you allowed to use more modern versions of DOS (i.e. post 3.3)? If > > > so, why not use a version that has SmartDrive built in? Better yet, use > > > Speedstor or some equally capable caching utility. Or will caching not > > > work for your purposes? > > SMARTDRV was bundled with Windoze 3.10, and will work with > > some of the <3.30 DOS versions. > > But you need to use 3.31 or newer to have any partitions > > larger than 32M. > XT's do not have more than 640K memory, thus SMARTDRV is not very useful. I may have to disagree. Without EMS, XTs don't have more than 992K of RAM. At least my XT systems did usualy offer at least 704K of continous RAM plus whatever was possible between the cards. The 704K where supported by default, while for the mem inbetween a little programm at startup to relink the memory had to run. works fine wit ANY dos version. If you had a VGA in your XT (8 Bit VGA was available), some 736K (708 as largest chunk) where possible without any addon memory card, if you restricted yourself to colour (or 704+32K when using Monocrome :) And speaking of cache utils, there where quite some available for DOS, that could run on XTs - all you had to do is give up main mem :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 6.0 am 30.April und 01.Mai 2005 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From melamy at earthlink.net Fri Dec 10 05:43:39 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: Shugart 850 drives Message-ID: <26211234.1102679019509.JavaMail.root@donald.psp.pas.earthlink.net> I don't recall from the conversation... -----Original Message----- From: Vintage Computer Festival Sent: Dec 9, 2004 11:57 PM To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Subject: Re: Shugart 850 drives On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Steve Thatcher wrote: > a heads up on California Digital, Although the owner still answers the > phone, the web site is basically bogus in that he sold off most everything > last spring. He still has drives I believe and some few miscellaneous stuff Oh yeah? Who did he sell it to? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From melamy at earthlink.net Fri Dec 10 05:46:33 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 3.3 volts Message-ID: <11387905.1102679194172.JavaMail.root@donald.psp.pas.earthlink.net> there is a secondary aspect to voltage reduction and that is reduced power dissipation... which also translates to shoving more stuff into smaller spaces... -----Original Message----- From: "Joe R." Sent: Dec 9, 2004 9:51 PM To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Subject: Re: electro-Physics: 3.3 volts At 09:30 PM 12/9/04 -0500, you wrote: >Today I started mothballing the VAX 6000 and noticed that a large part >of its power supply is on 3.3 volts, now common, but probably not in 1988. > >Seems like something was invented, probably in chip design that made >3.3 so useful. I wonder what that was, when that landmark was reached. It wasn't a new invention. In was the fact that ICs were getting so dense that they couldn't squeeze in any more circuits unless they could reduce the space that the insualting layers took up. The layers were already so thin that they'd break down at about 5 1/2 volt so they had to reduce the voltage to 3.3 volts. Since then they've further reduced it to 1.8 volts and (I think) now to 1.1 volts. And there are plans to reduce it even more. All so that they can reduce the bulk of the insulating layers and add more gates. Joe From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Fri Dec 10 06:40:53 2004 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: 5-1/4" drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: <6d.3a39e75c.2eea9f8f@aol.com> References: <6d.3a39e75c.2eea9f8f@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041210073901.03a7f580@pop-server> Is there any way to attach and access a 5-1/4" diskette drive on a modern day PC under either WIN98SE or XP PRO? From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Dec 10 07:02:36 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: 5-1/4" drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041210073901.03a7f580@pop-server> References: <6d.3a39e75c.2eea9f8f@aol.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041210073901.03a7f580@pop-server> Message-ID: <45660000.1102683756@libcat1.york.ac.uk> --On Friday, December 10, 2004 07:40:53 -0500 Gene Ehrich wrote: > Is there any way to attach and access a 5-1/4" diskette drive on a > modern day PC under either WIN98SE or XP PRO? Yes, just plug it in like a 3.5" drive. Assuming the drive has the appropriate jumper settings for a PC, it will work fine. XP Pro will even change the drive icon accordingly. I have 2 machines set up like that. If this is the machine's second drive, the only gotcha I can think of is that a small number of motherboards seem to only have one drive select, and hence can only support one drive (my Asus is like that -- I just disabled the on-board controller and used an old one). -- Pete Turnbull Network Manager University of York, UK From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 10 07:12:49 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? In-Reply-To: <1102673037.13292.15.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <008901c4de67$e856b1d0$0100a8c0@screamer> <000801c4dccd$e1aa0940$6401a8c0@dcohoe> <3.0.6.32.20041209214340.009436d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <008901c4de67$e856b1d0$0100a8c0@screamer> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041210081249.0093fc00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:03 AM 12/10/04 +0000, you wrote: >On Thu, 2004-12-09 at 22:25 -0500, Bob Shannon wrote: >> Jay wants one, has for a long long time. >> >> I have a 2645 and a 2649G, but both are DOA. >> >> Both have mold on their CRT's. > >That seems to be a common problem with our HP terminals, It's not just the terminals. You find the same thing on HP 64000 LDSs and 9845 and 9835 calculators that use CRTs. I've never figured out why some do it and some don't. I've bought stuff that's sat in un-air conditioned storage with PLENTY of humidity here in Florida and it will be fine but others that were stored under better conditions are full of spots. In fact, the three 2648s that I just bought all came from the same place and were stored under IDEAL conditions and one is almost completely covered in spots but the others are perfect and have NO spots. I wonder if something happened to some of them during manuacturering? I've seen a number of HP voyageur series (HP-11C, 15C, etc) calculators that had never been previously opened but had distinct spots of corrosion on the circuit board. It appeared that someone had dripped sweat on them as they were being assembled. I guess I should start picking up any HP CRT devices that have good CRTs and save them just for the CRTs. Joe although >everything else from the same era is fine. (Couldn't tell you exact >model numbers yet as all of HPs numbers blur into one after a while! I'm >still organising our piles of HP surplus prior to making a list of what >there actually is) > >cheers > >Jules > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 10 07:16:56 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: 5-1/4" drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: <45660000.1102683756@libcat1.york.ac.uk> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041210073901.03a7f580@pop-server> <6d.3a39e75c.2eea9f8f@aol.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041210073901.03a7f580@pop-server> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041210081656.0090b3a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:02 PM 12/10/04 +0000, you wrote: >--On Friday, December 10, 2004 07:40:53 -0500 Gene Ehrich > wrote: > >> Is there any way to attach and access a 5-1/4" diskette drive on a >> modern day PC under either WIN98SE or XP PRO? I have a combination 3.5"/5.25" drive on my PC with W98Se and it appears to work fine. Joe From Ladyelec at aol.com Fri Dec 10 07:27:55 2004 From: Ladyelec at aol.com (Ladyelec@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Got a HP 2648. Now what? Now women on list Message-ID: <66.4c18a406.2eeafe5b@aol.com> In a message dated 12/9/04 8:21:47 PM Central Standard Time, cctalk-request@classiccmp.org writes: > ubject: Re: Got a HP 2648. Now what? > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > > I'll keep going: > > So. Are there any women (left) on this list? Hmm... I wonder why. > Ya'll have at least one. ME! Isa From Hans.Franke at siemens.com Fri Dec 10 08:05:39 2004 From: Hans.Franke at siemens.com (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: 5-1/4" drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041210073901.03a7f580@pop-server> References: <6d.3a39e75c.2eea9f8f@aol.com> Message-ID: <41B9BB43.16693.2898F356@localhost> Am 10 Dec 2004 7:40 meinte Gene Ehrich: > Is there any way to attach and access a 5-1/4" diskette drive on a modern > day PC under either WIN98SE or XP PRO? Just plug it in - of course you need an 'old' cable with _two_ connectors of which one should be an ege type - and don't forget that it has to be twisted. Every BIOS I know still supports 5 1/4 - even 360s and 720s. And Windoze dose for shure. I have one XP machine with 4(5) drives. 1.44 3 1/2 720 3 1/2 and 5 1/4 1.2 5 1/4 360 5 1/4 Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 6.0 am 30.April und 01.Mai 2005 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Dec 10 08:36:03 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: Card punch? References: <200412091630.iB9GTUjl040783@huey.classiccmp.org> <41B86F88.8572.A1C1CC3@localhost> Message-ID: <16825.46163.675300.913744@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Brian" == Brian Knittel writes: >> http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=498212 Brian> It seems to be a keypunch/verifier, non-IBM. There also seem Brian> to be a couple of VT-100's in the lot, or close cousins, Brian> non-yellowed. Wonder if the keyboards are there. Brian> Someone with more storage space than I have should get this. Brian> And then tell me about it so I can enjoy it vicariously. ...and post a note here to find a home for some of the other oddball pieces. paul From GFisher at tristonecapital.com Fri Dec 10 08:56:07 2004 From: GFisher at tristonecapital.com (Gary Fisher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: Making CP/M disk images Message-ID: I just wanted to give an update on how I was making out with the disk images for the Altos 580. I was informed by another member of the group that Teledisk 2.22 & 2.23 don't really work too well for this application and suggested Teledisk version 2.15n. That did the trick as to writing an image that the Altos could use. My 1.2Mb drive wrote the images (which were 96tpi) on a DSDD 48tpi disk just fine using the older but better version. If any of you are looking for where I got those images, there is a extensive collection in a zip (or tar) at: http://computer-refuge.org/classiccmp/altos580/ The real problem was me failing to hearing absence of the "click" of the heads on the Altos drop down. The head loading solenoid (sic) was sticky and with a bit of prodding now engages the heads with the accompanying successful loading of the disks. My thanks to those who offered to help (you know who you are!) However (and isn't there is always a 'however'), my next saga is to try and make a hard disk work with the Altos. I've tried various MFM drives from 10mb to 40mb but with no success. The heads don't seem to move on any commands, just the nice whirring of the main motor. The HD initialization program on my diagnostics disk doesn't seem to do anything and offers a limited choice of drive parameters. Therefore I'm assuming the massive amount of jumpers on the motherboard and disk controller card must have something to do with getting the HD going. Does anybody have documentaion on the 580 jumper settings or can shed any light on how to get HD's to work? I'm really enjoying this machine as it is fast, has gobs of memory and just plain looks good! Thanks, Gary F. on 11/25/04 9:15 AM, Gary Fisher at GFisher@tristonecapital.com wrote: > I'm trying to do the same thing with some (downloaded) Teledisk images for an > Altos 580 server which has a similar 96tpi floppy with no luck (a plea for > help here). > Gary Fisher C/O Tristone Capital Inc. Suite 1800, 335 - 8th Avenue SW Calgary, Alberta T2P 1C9 B: 403.303.8657 F: 403.294.9543 E:gfisher@tristonecapital.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Unless otherwise stated, opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the author and are not endorsed by the author's employer. From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Fri Dec 10 09:19:40 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: 5-1/4" drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: <45660000.1102683756@libcat1.york.ac.uk> References: <6d.3a39e75c.2eea9f8f@aol.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041210073901.03a7f580@pop-server> <45660000.1102683756@libcat1.york.ac.uk> Message-ID: <41B9BE8C.9050704@compsys.to> >Pete Turnbull wrote: > >--On Friday, December 10, 2004 07:40:53 -0500 Gene Ehrich > wrote: > >> Is there any way to attach and access a 5-1/4" diskette drive on a >> modern day PC under either WIN98SE or XP PRO? > > Yes, just plug it in like a 3.5" drive. Assuming the drive has the > appropriate jumper settings for a PC, it will work fine. XP Pro will > even change the drive icon accordingly. I have 2 machines set up like > that. If this is the machine's second drive, the only gotcha I can > think of is that a small number of motherboards seem to only have one > drive select, and hence can only support one drive (my Asus is like > that -- I just disabled the on-board controller and used an old one). Jerome Fine replies: Under Windows 98 SE on a 750 MHz Pentium III, I installed BOTH a 3.5" drive (A:) and a 5 1/4" drive (B:) The ONLY real problem (aside from setting the jumpers and using the correct cables, etc. was that at one point I removed the 5 1/4" drive. When I attempted to add the 5 1/4" drive back to the configuration, I seem to remember that it would NOT accept the second drive. Finally in desperation, I removed the 3.5" drive as well, then added back BOTH the 3.5" and 5 1/4" drives at the same time. That seemed to solve the problem. I use the 5 1/4" HD 1.2 MByte drive as an RX50 (sometimes even as an RX33 with a change in the media - ask if there are any questions) under E11 on the Pentium III so that I can transfer small files (up to 400 KBytes) from/to a PDP-11 with the real DEC RX50 drive. On the PC, PUTR from John Wilson is also able to FORMAT (LLF) the RX50 media. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Fri Dec 10 09:53:03 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: Yaze 2.01 under Mac OS X 10.3.6 Message-ID: <937FC7F2-4AC3-11D9-BD6B-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> I have just downloaded Yase-AG 2.01 from http://www.mathematik.uni-ulm.de/users/ag/yaze-ag/ The install instructions say: 4. If you want to run yaze-ag under Mac-OS-X then (gcc ?.?.?) You have to use the Makefile_solaris Refer to section "Solaris". Which switches are to set, that I don't know at this time. In a console session (iTerm or Terminal) I renamed the Makefile to Makefile_save, and Makefile_solaris to Makefile, Did a Make, and although there were many warnings, I got a working system. Run ./yase from the same directory and was transported to CP/M land. Apparently you don't have to worry much about the switches, but they might reduce the number of warnings. From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Dec 10 10:04:46 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? Message-ID: <0412101604.AA03774@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Jules Richardson wrote: > Was that Alison? I remember the name from the list way back and wondered > what had happened to her, she seemed pretty clued-up on things. Do you mean Allison Parent? I never saw her on this list, but maybe it was before I joined. What about Megan Gentry and Emanuel Stiebler? MS From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Dec 10 10:06:38 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Got a HP 2648. Now what? Now women on list Message-ID: <0412101606.AA03782@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Ladyelec@aol.com wrote: > Ya'll have at least one. > ME! > Isa Thank you for being on our list, and for your interest in Classic Computing! -- Michael Sokolov Engineer / Researcher / Truth seeker / Freedom fighter http://ivan.Harhan.ORG/~msokolov/ From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Fri Dec 10 10:17:08 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: Yaze 2.01 under Mac OS X 10.3.6 In-Reply-To: <937FC7F2-4AC3-11D9-BD6B-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> References: <937FC7F2-4AC3-11D9-BD6B-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: An update below... On Dec 10, 2004, at 7:53 AM, Ron Hudson wrote: > I have just downloaded Yaze-AG 2.01 from > http://www.mathematik.uni-ulm.de/users/ag/yaze-ag/ > > The install instructions say: > 4. If you want to run yaze-ag under Mac-OS-X then > (gcc ?.?.?) > > You have to use the Makefile_solaris > > Refer to section "Solaris". > > Which switches are to set, that I don't know at this time. > > > > In a console session (iTerm or Terminal) I renamed the Makefile to > Makefile_save, and Makefile_solaris to Makefile, Did a Make, and > although there were many warnings, I got a working system. > Run ./yaze from the same directory and was transported to CP/M land. > > Apparently you don't have to worry much about the switches, but they > might reduce the number of warnings. I was running yaze out of the directory on my Desktop where I downloaded it, so I thought - while I am root, why don't I try the install (make install), many things proceeded to copy. Then I went back to my own user, and tried to run /usr/local/bin/yaze - it copied a bunch of files back into my home directory (all nicely under ~/cpm) but still could not find yasz_bin (also in /usr/local/bin/yaze) So as a non-root user it seems I need to run /usr/local/bin/yaze_bin to get to cpm.. I also need to try to get /usr/local/bin into my search path (I am not even sure where to look for that under os X.. hunting time..) but it now works, and I assume it works for all the users of the machine. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Dec 10 10:24:56 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts References: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <1102672595.13275.7.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <41B9CDD8.3040904@jetnet.ab.ca> Jules Richardson wrote: > Out of interest, why do we use 50Hz power in the UK and 60Hz in the US? > (I don't mean why are they different, I mean why those numbers) > > I saw yesterday a claim that the 60Hz in the US was a Tesla invention, > but the info didn't elaborate on why he chose that figure if so... It has to deal with big heavy rotating machines, so that works out to 3000 rpm in the UK and 3600 rpm in the USA for a typical motor. What telsa did invent was a better electric motor. Ben. From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Dec 10 11:19:01 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: Maybe OT :Several Crays in Ca In-Reply-To: <16825.46163.675300.913744@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: 2 J932's, 1 J916s and 1 SV1 + many PC10s in California http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=496542&convertTo=USD Peter Wallace From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Dec 10 12:03:16 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 3.3 volts Message-ID: <200412101803.KAA11489@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "John Allain" > >Today I started mothballing the VAX 6000 and noticed that a large part >of its power supply is on 3.3 volts, now common, but probably not in 1988. > >Seems like something was invented, probably in chip design that made >3.3 so useful. I wonder what that was, when that landmark was reached. > >(For that matter, I don't really know why 5V and > 12V were popular, on a "first priinciples" basis.) > >Maybe we've lost some of the people on the list who can answer these >questions, but I'm trying anyway. > >John A > Hi RTL was 3.6V. Dwight From paulpenn at knology.net Fri Dec 10 12:03:55 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul A. Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: my CP/M-80 pile'o'gunk References: <20041210035123.9FFC94927@spies.com> Message-ID: <005d01c4dee2$9d514260$6501a8c0@ibm6go1addn6c0> Al said: > It works fine. > > Tom, I have a Qume DT8 you can borrow to read your discs. Send an > adr offlist and I'll send it off. How about documenting the switch and jumper positions on your drive before you send it off. I have some of these drives and might get around to hooking them up one of these days. There are a zillion jumpers all over the drive PC board and only one combination works! Also, please mention which controller card you got to work. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Dec 10 12:25:57 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 3.3 volts Message-ID: <200412101825.KAA11533@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Steve Thatcher" > >there is a secondary aspect to voltage reduction and that is reduced power dissipation... which also translates to shoving more stuff into smaller spaces... > >-----Original Message----- >From: "Joe R." >Sent: Dec 9, 2004 9:51 PM >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >Subject: Re: electro-Physics: 3.3 volts > >At 09:30 PM 12/9/04 -0500, you wrote: >>Today I started mothballing the VAX 6000 and noticed that a large part >>of its power supply is on 3.3 volts, now common, but probably not in 1988. >> >>Seems like something was invented, probably in chip design that made >>3.3 so useful. I wonder what that was, when that landmark was reached. > > It wasn't a new invention. In was the fact that ICs were getting so >dense that they couldn't squeeze in any more circuits unless they could >reduce the space that the insualting layers took up. The layers were >already so thin that they'd break down at about 5 1/2 volt so they had to >reduce the voltage to 3.3 volts. Since then they've further reduced it to >1.8 volts and (I think) now to 1.1 volts. And there are plans to reduce it >even more. All so that they can reduce the bulk of the insulating layers >and add more gates. > > Joe > Hi I don't think I'm giving away any trade secrets by mentioning that the primary reason for going to lower voltages is to reduce power consumption. The thinner oxides are to make them work at lower voltages( needs more gain ). Power is a squared factor of the voltage. Even a small reduction in voltage is a big payoff in power. If we could make the transistors work at 0.1 volts, we'd be doing it. Remember, we make these things. Dwight from AMD. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Dec 10 12:34:04 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Got a HP 2648. Now what? Now women on list Message-ID: <200412101834.KAA11538@clulw009.amd.com> >From: Ladyelec@aol.com > >In a message dated 12/9/04 8:21:47 PM Central Standard Time, >cctalk-request@classiccmp.org writes: > > >> ubject: Re: Got a HP 2648. Now what? >> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >> >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII >> >> > I'll keep going: >> >> So. Are there any women (left) on this list? Hmm... I wonder why. >> > >Ya'll have at least one. >ME! >Isa > Hi Isa What type of machines are your favorites? Most of the women we've had in the past were into the heavy metal machines. You know, "If you could pick it up, it really wasn't a computer." Dwight From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Dec 10 12:39:50 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <1102672595.13275.7.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <1102672595.13275.7.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <40583.64.139.41.130.1102703990.squirrel@64.139.41.130> > I saw yesterday a claim that the 60Hz in the US was a Tesla invention, > but the info didn't elaborate on why he chose that figure if so... It was chosen to be very close to the NTSC vertical sync rate of 59.94 Hz. :-) From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Dec 10 13:13:05 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Got a HP 2648. Now what? Now women on list In-Reply-To: <200412101834.KAA11538@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200412101834.KAA11538@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <1102705985.13292.32.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-12-10 at 10:34 -0800, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Most of the > women we've had in the past were into the heavy metal machines. > You know, "If you could pick it up, it really wasn't a computer." > Dwight Hell, it ain't really a computer unless you can stand inside it :-) From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Fri Dec 10 13:58:16 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: <0412100704.AA03450@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <001201c4def2$97cd90e0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > Hmm, interesting. I assume that's the limit for single > channel operation, > right? Do you know the true limit for operation with both channels? > (64 kbps officially.) IIRC the next step from 64kbps was 256kbps, so if it was able to do that reliably, then I presume they would have supported that. Hence I presume it could not. I will ask the next time I run into the relevant firmware engineer. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From kth at srv.net Fri Dec 10 13:19:18 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: More data on dead wall wart In-Reply-To: <20041209142755.K65479@shell.lmi.net> References: <20041209134538.F65479@shell.lmi.net> <20041209142755.K65479@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <41B9F6B6.20807@srv.net> Fred Cisin wrote: >Fortunately, all 5 were just blown fuse, the common failure of those >warts. > > Blown, or did the fuse brake from being slammed against the floor? ;=) From allain at panix.com Fri Dec 10 14:22:50 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? Message-ID: <006301c4def6$05ec2660$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Was that Alison? I remember the name from the > list way back and wondered what had happened ... That makes two. Megan and Alison. I think MBG tends to check for interesting topics to comment on every few weeks (Thank-You). In general, She is ex-DEC and this list is less DEC oriented than it used to be. I'm tempted to go over to a netnews list. And we do have a few lurkers running Internet shops and things. There are just some things that don't help you meet women. My college had a 9:1 ratio. The MIT swap meet looks like about 20:1. ** On the other hand, this is a great place for women to meet men. ** John A. From tpeters at mixcom.com Fri Dec 10 14:29:46 2004 From: tpeters at mixcom.com (Tom Peters) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: <41B9BE8C.9050704@compsys.to> References: <6d.3a39e75c.2eea9f8f@aol.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041210073901.03a7f580@pop-server> <45660000.1102683756@libcat1.york.ac.uk> <41B9BE8C.9050704@compsys.to> Message-ID: <59777.67.36.83.25.1102710586.squirrel@67.36.83.25> There was an attempt to "simplify" connection of multiple floppy drives (meaning TWO) at one time by adding a "twist" to the cable-- some conductors in the ribbon are cut out and reversed, which is a sort of "cable select" for floppy drives. I seem to recall in this case that one would jumper both drives as drive A in such a case, or as DS0. Stupid idea. Use a straight thru floppy cable and jumper one for DS0 and one for DS1. We get it. If you intermingle the two drive select ideas you may have problems where both or niether drives light up and niether can read. > >Pete Turnbull wrote: >> >--On Friday, December 10, 2004 07:40:53 -0500 Gene Ehrich >> wrote: >> >>> Is there any way to attach and access a 5-1/4" diskette drive on a >>> modern day PC under either WIN98SE or XP PRO? >> >> Yes, just plug it in like a 3.5" drive. Assuming the drive has the >> appropriate jumper settings for a PC, it will work fine. XP Pro will >> even change the drive icon accordingly. I have 2 machines set up like >> that. If this is the machine's second drive, the only gotcha I can >> think of is that a small number of motherboards seem to only have one >> drive select, and hence can only support one drive (my Asus is like >> that -- I just disabled the on-board controller and used an old one). > > Jerome Fine replies: > > Under Windows 98 SE on a 750 MHz Pentium III, I installed > BOTH a 3.5" drive (A:) and a 5 1/4" drive (B:) > > The ONLY real problem (aside from setting the jumpers and > using the correct cables, etc. was that at one point I > removed the 5 1/4" drive. When I attempted to add the > 5 1/4" drive back to the configuration, I seem to remember > that it would NOT accept the second drive. Finally in > desperation, I removed the 3.5" drive as well, then added > back BOTH the 3.5" and 5 1/4" drives at the same time. > That seemed to solve the problem. > > I use the 5 1/4" HD 1.2 MByte drive as an RX50 (sometimes > even as an RX33 with a change in the media - ask if there > are any questions) under E11 on the Pentium III so that > I can transfer small files (up to 400 KBytes) from/to a > PDP-11 with the real DEC RX50 drive. On the PC, PUTR from > John Wilson is also able to FORMAT (LLF) the RX50 media. > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > -- > If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail > address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk > e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be > obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the > 'at' with the four digits of the current year. > From aek at spies.com Fri Dec 10 15:54:54 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: my CP/M-80 pile'o'gunk Message-ID: <20041210215454.5913E4A90@spies.com> How about documenting the switch and jumper positions on your drive before you send it off. -- I can do that. Tom wanted to try some other things first. The manuals for the DT8 and the 1/2 height 242 are up at www.bitsavers.org/pdf/qume From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Dec 10 16:09:41 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:16 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC Message-ID: <200412102209.OAA11612@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Tom Peters" > >There was an attempt to "simplify" connection of multiple floppy drives >(meaning TWO) at one time by adding a "twist" to the cable-- some >conductors in the ribbon are cut out and reversed, which is a sort of >"cable select" for floppy drives. > >I seem to recall in this case that one would jumper both drives as drive A >in such a case, or as DS0. > >Stupid idea. Use a straight thru floppy cable and jumper one for DS0 and >one for DS1. We get it. > >If you intermingle the two drive select ideas you may have problems where >both or niether drives light up and niether can read. ---snip--- Hi As I recall, the two drives with the twist were actually DS0 and DS2 as seen by the controller. If using a straight cable, one had to skip DS1. Dwight From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Fri Dec 10 16:18:57 2004 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: <200412102209.OAA11612@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200412102209.OAA11612@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041210171810.023cb3e0@pop-server> Is there anyway that it can be attached external to the PC through serial, parallel or USB ports From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Dec 10 16:58:02 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC Message-ID: <200412102258.OAA11621@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Gene Ehrich" > >Is there anyway that it can be attached external to the PC through serial, >parallel or USB ports > > Hi Yes and No. Of course, one can make some hardware to handle the drive and connect it to anything. There are 3-1/2 inch drives for the USB. It might be that the software would see a 5-1/4 drive as it is through one of these interfaces. Remove the 3-1/2 and wire it to the 5-1/4. For the parallel, I have some hardware someplace that can connect an IDE drive to the parallel port. I don't think I've seen anything for a floppy. Although, I've seen tape drives that connect to the parallel port. These normally connect to a floppy port. One might be able to do something with one of these interfaces. One of the catalogs that I've seen recently had a USB experimenters kit. One could most likely use one of these with a PIC and a controller chip to interface to just about any drive. Does anyone recall if the ZIP drives were on the floppy ports? If so, one could take a parallel ZIP dive and remove the drive part to connect a floppy drive. One still needs to create some software. It is still just a problem of hardware and software. A better idea might be to locate an older machine at one of the second hand stores and use that. Dwight From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 10 17:01:09 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <41B9CDD8.3040904@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <1102672595.13275.7.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041210180109.00937d30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:24 AM 12/10/04 -0700, you wrote: >Jules Richardson wrote: > >> Out of interest, why do we use 50Hz power in the UK and 60Hz in the US? >> (I don't mean why are they different, I mean why those numbers) >> >> I saw yesterday a claim that the 60Hz in the US was a Tesla invention, >> but the info didn't elaborate on why he chose that figure if so... > >It has to deal with big heavy rotating machines, so that works out to >3000 rpm in the UK and 3600 rpm in the USA for a typical motor. I think you have it backward. The motor speeds are the results of the line frequency not vice versa. >What telsa did invent was a better electric motor. Telsa did a LOT more than invent a better electric motor. You should go read up on him and his work sometime. It's fasinating. FWIW the "better" electric motor was a LOT more than just better, it was revolutionary. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 10 17:03:50 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 3.3 volts In-Reply-To: <200412101825.KAA11533@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041210180350.00908970@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:25 AM 12/10/04 -0800, you wrote: >Hi > I don't think I'm giving away any trade secrets by mentioning >that the primary reason for going to lower voltages is to >reduce power consumption. The thinner oxides are to make them >work at lower voltages( needs more gain ). Power is a squared >factor of the voltage. Even a small reduction in voltage is >a big payoff in power. If we could make the transistors work >at 0.1 volts, we'd be doing it. > Remember, we make these things. No you don't. The Chinese, Koreans, Malaysians and other Asians do. Joe >Dwight >from AMD. > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 10 17:14:03 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: <200412102258.OAA11621@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041210181403.00908c30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:58 PM 12/10/04 -0800, you wrote: > >>From: "Gene Ehrich" >> >>Is there anyway that it can be attached external to the PC through serial, >>parallel or USB ports >> >> > >Hi > Yes and No. Of course, one can make some hardware to >handle the drive and connect it to anything. There >are 3-1/2 inch drives for the USB. It might be that >the software would see a 5-1/4 drive as it is through >one of these interfaces. Remove the 3-1/2 and wire it >to the 5-1/4. > For the parallel, I have some hardware someplace >that can connect an IDE drive to the parallel port. >I don't think I've seen anything for a floppy. You should have. Backpack makes 3 1/2" and 5 1/4" drives that work off the parallel port. And also tape drives, CD drives, etc. But I don't know if they have drivers that work with W98 and up. Joe From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Dec 10 17:14:49 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 3.3 volts Message-ID: <200412102314.PAA11626@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Joe Actually, the East Germans fab ours. They are packaged in Singapore. We do the design and debug, though. That may change in the future, who knows. Still, by we, I included all of the AMD employees. Dwight >From: "Joe R." > >At 10:25 AM 12/10/04 -0800, you wrote: > >>Hi >> I don't think I'm giving away any trade secrets by mentioning >>that the primary reason for going to lower voltages is to >>reduce power consumption. The thinner oxides are to make them >>work at lower voltages( needs more gain ). Power is a squared >>factor of the voltage. Even a small reduction in voltage is >>a big payoff in power. If we could make the transistors work >>at 0.1 volts, we'd be doing it. >> Remember, we make these things. > > No you don't. The Chinese, Koreans, Malaysians and other Asians do. > > Joe > > >>Dwight >>from AMD. >> >> >> > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Dec 10 17:26:30 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: <200412102209.OAA11612@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200412102209.OAA11612@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20041210151912.K91108@shell.lmi.net> > >There was an attempt to "simplify" connection of multiple floppy drives > >(meaning TWO) at one time by adding a "twist" to the cable-- some > >conductors in the ribbon are cut out and reversed, which is a sort of > >"cable select" for floppy drives. Several manufacturers had problems with their field dealers, such as Computerland, being unable to properly handle things as complex as jumpers. > >I seem to recall in this case that one would jumper both drives as drive A > >in such a case, or as DS0. In the case of IBM, with a twist, jumper both as DS1 (SECOND drive). In the case of TRS80, with pins removed in connector cables, jumper all drive positions on the drive. > >Stupid idea. Use a straight thru floppy cable and jumper one for DS0 and > >one for DS1. We get it. > >If you intermingle the two drive select ideas you may have problems where > >both or niether drives light up and niether can read. > ---snip--- > Hi > As I recall, the two drives with the twist were actually > DS0 and DS2 as seen by the controller. If using a straight > cable, one had to skip DS1. On PC (5150), with straight cable, I used drives jumpered DS0 and DS1. On PC (5150), with twisted cable, I used drives jumpered DS1 and DS1. From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Dec 10 17:30:53 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041210171810.023cb3e0@pop-server> References: <200412102209.OAA11612@clulw009.amd.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041210171810.023cb3e0@pop-server> Message-ID: <20041210152654.G91108@shell.lmi.net> On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Gene Ehrich wrote: > Is there anyway that it can be attached external to the PC through serial, > parallel or USB ports Microsolutions (DeKalb? IL, makers of "Uniform") made "Backpack" series that included parallel port floppy drives. Serial port drives existed, but never became common. It may be possible to convert some USB drives from 3.5 to 5.25. But many of the MODERN ones have combined the USB interface with the circuitry of the drive. From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Dec 10 17:34:56 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: my CP/M-80 pile'o'gunk In-Reply-To: <52478.64.139.41.130.1102646066.squirrel@64.139.41.130> References: <40418.64.139.41.130.1102637953.squirrel@64.139.41.130> <52478.64.139.41.130.1102646066.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: <20041209191245.D72967@shell.lmi.net> > Tom asks: > > I can RTFM, but is this a handwired cable? Is there any vestigial > > correspondence between floppy pinouts (3.5, 5.25. 8)?! On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Eric Smith wrote: > 3.5 and 5.25 are the same, but 8 is completely different. > If you want to *write* 8-inch disks, you need something to generate > the TG43 (Track Greater than 43) signal that controls the write > current. Not necessary if you only want to read. > The D-Bit FDADAP floppy disk adapter can be used if you don't want > to wire up a random cable. It also has a PIC that generates the TG43 > signal. > http://www.dbit.com/fdadap.html if you don't need the TG43 signal, the rest of the pins are sequenced relative to each other similarly enough that you can crimp a cable, with just a few wires that need to be changed around. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Dec 10 17:37:59 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? In-Reply-To: <3dgir01mbr5p30vdumg3616a7lrk69f9bf@4ax.com> References: <20041208203412.G49412@shell.lmi.net> <3dgir01mbr5p30vdumg3616a7lrk69f9bf@4ax.com> Message-ID: <20041210153641.U91108@shell.lmi.net> On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Scott Stevens wrote: > 640K WAS enough for that application (ducks). Nobody needs more than 640K. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Dec 10 17:39:22 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC Message-ID: <200412102339.PAA11632@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Fred Cisin" > >> >There was an attempt to "simplify" connection of multiple floppy drives >> >(meaning TWO) at one time by adding a "twist" to the cable-- some >> >conductors in the ribbon are cut out and reversed, which is a sort of >> >"cable select" for floppy drives. > >Several manufacturers had problems with their field dealers, such as >Computerland, being unable to properly handle things as complex as >jumpers. > >> >I seem to recall in this case that one would jumper both drives as drive A >> >in such a case, or as DS0. > >In the case of IBM, with a twist, jumper both as DS1 (SECOND drive). >In the case of TRS80, with pins removed in connector cables, jumper all >drive positions on the drive. > >> >Stupid idea. Use a straight thru floppy cable and jumper one for DS0 and >> >one for DS1. We get it. >> >If you intermingle the two drive select ideas you may have problems where >> >both or niether drives light up and niether can read. >> ---snip--- >> Hi >> As I recall, the two drives with the twist were actually >> DS0 and DS2 as seen by the controller. If using a straight >> cable, one had to skip DS1. > >On PC (5150), with straight cable, I used drives jumpered DS0 and DS1. >On PC (5150), with twisted cable, I used drives jumpered DS1 and DS1. > Hi I stand corrected. Thanks Fred. I knew it was something like that. Dwight From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Dec 10 17:36:46 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts References: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <1102672595.13275.7.camel@weka.localdomain> <3.0.6.32.20041210180109.00937d30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <41BA330E.7080104@jetnet.ab.ca> Joe R. wrote: > I think you have it backward. The motor speeds are the results of the > line frequency not vice versa. But you generate line frequency with a rotating machine, thus the speed of the generator is your limiting factor. Kind of a chicken and egg problem almost. Ben. From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Dec 10 17:53:44 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041210181403.00908c30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041210181403.00908c30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20041210155117.Y91108@shell.lmi.net> On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Joe R. wrote: > You should have. Backpack makes 3 1/2" and 5 1/4" drives that work off > the parallel port. And also tape drives, CD drives, etc. But I don't know > if they have drivers that work with W98 and up. I used a Microsolutions Backpack 2.8M 3.5" drive with Windoze 95, so it should work with 98 (probly). Using it with NT/2K/XP would probably require different drivers. From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Dec 10 18:08:34 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: More data on dead wall wart In-Reply-To: <41B9F6B6.20807@srv.net> References: <20041209134538.F65479@shell.lmi.net> <20041209142755.K65479@shell.lmi.net> <41B9F6B6.20807@srv.net> Message-ID: <20041210160558.O91108@shell.lmi.net> > >Fortunately, all 5 were just blown fuse, the common failure of those > >warts. On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Kevin Handy wrote: > Blown, or did the fuse brake from being slammed against the floor? ;=) a reasonable concern. The glass of the fuse was not broken in any of them, but most of them had visible heat damage inside the glass of the fuse, and they ALL worked with a new fuse soldered in. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 10 18:17:50 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: <59777.67.36.83.25.1102710586.squirrel@67.36.83.25> from "Tom Peters" at Dec 10, 4 02:29:46 pm Message-ID: > > There was an attempt to "simplify" connection of multiple floppy drives > (meaning TWO) at one time by adding a "twist" to the cable-- some > conductors in the ribbon are cut out and reversed, which is a sort of > "cable select" for floppy drives. > > I seem to recall in this case that one would jumper both drives as drive A > in such a case, or as DS0. I tought it was actually DS1. > > Stupid idea. Use a straight thru floppy cable and jumper one for DS0 and > one for DS1. We get it. The 'IBM twist' also gave you sparate motor-on lines for the 2 drives, and the original controllers (XT and AT) certainly controlled them separately. You can't normally get away with an untwisted cable, no matter how you jumper the drives. -tony From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Dec 10 18:34:56 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <1102672595.13275.7.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <1102672595.13275.7.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20041210163108.M91108@shell.lmi.net> On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > Out of interest, why do we use 50Hz power in the UK and 60Hz in the US? > (I don't mean why are they different, I mean why those numbers) 35 years ago, I was working for a British physicist, and I asked him: "Why are US devices 60Hz, and UK devices 50Hz?" "So that they will work with the local mains power." "Well, why are the US outlets 60Hz, and the UK outlets are 50 Hz?" "So that the devices plugged into them will work." From melamy at earthlink.net Fri Dec 10 20:18:37 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: 60 hertz power In-Reply-To: <20041210163108.M91108@shell.lmi.net> References: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <1102672595.13275.7.camel@weka.localdomain> <20041210163108.M91108@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041210211445.042c6eb0@mail.earthlink.net> the 60hz thing was related to efficiency of polyphase (2 and 3 phase) motors that Tesla developed for Westinghouse. I suspect that it was arrived at by experimentation with the materials, etc that Tesla had to work with in the 1890s. From tomj at wps.com Fri Dec 10 20:23:17 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <1102672595.13275.7.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <1102672595.13275.7.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > Out of interest, why do we use 50Hz power in the UK and 60Hz in the US? > (I don't mean why are they different, I mean why those numbers) > > I saw yesterday a claim that the 60Hz in the US was a Tesla invention, > but the info didn't elaborate on why he chose that figure if so... I don't know, but 60Hz is awfully convenient for calculating time (with synch motors). I guess you 50Hz people have to use square gears or something to do 50/60ths :-) From tomj at wps.com Fri Dec 10 20:26:13 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? In-Reply-To: <1102672693.13292.10.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1102672693.13292.10.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: > > > So. Are there any women (left) on this list? Hmm... I wonder why. > > > > There used to be one. She no longer is with us here. I think she more > > got fed up with the general unruliness of the list more than anything. > > Was that Alison? I remember the name from the list way back and wondered > what had happened to her, she seemed pretty clued-up on things. Umm, this is a bit ... embarrassing? From tomj at wps.com Fri Dec 10 20:30:06 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Got a HP 2648. Now what? Now women on list In-Reply-To: <66.4c18a406.2eeafe5b@aol.com> References: <66.4c18a406.2eeafe5b@aol.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 Ladyelec@aol.com wrote: > > > I'll keep going: > > > > So. Are there any women (left) on this list? Hmm... I wonder why. > > > > Ya'll have at least one. > ME! > Isa Good! LOL! Oh this is a dangerous thread I realize, but sheesh, the idea of all-male mailing lists(*) is bothersome. Glad it's not! From tomj at wps.com Fri Dec 10 20:49:30 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <40583.64.139.41.130.1102703990.squirrel@64.139.41.130> References: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <1102672595.13275.7.camel@weka.localdomain> <40583.64.139.41.130.1102703990.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Eric Smith wrote: > > > I saw yesterday a claim that the 60Hz in the US was a Tesla invention, > > but the info didn't elaborate on why he chose that figure if so... > > It was chosen to be very close to the NTSC vertical sync rate > of 59.94 Hz. :-) Hmm yes, that's proven to be very popular :-) From tomj at wps.com Fri Dec 10 20:53:32 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: <20041210152654.G91108@shell.lmi.net> References: <200412102209.OAA11612@clulw009.amd.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041210171810.023cb3e0@pop-server> <20041210152654.G91108@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > > Is there anyway that it can be attached external to the PC through serial, > > parallel or USB ports Duct tape works, but it gets gummy with time and the drive falls off. From allain at panix.com Fri Dec 10 21:34:54 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? References: <1102672693.13292.10.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <063701c4df32$6211a960$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Umm, this is a bit ... embarrassing? Maybe it's time to say that I learned long ago that just because somebody can comment on anything on this list, perhaps on everything if they want, It doesn't make it so their comments necessarily add value every time they make them. John A. so I cut back. From mcesari at comcast.net Fri Dec 10 21:59:20 2004 From: mcesari at comcast.net (Mike Cesari) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: References: <200412102209.OAA11612@clulw009.amd.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041210171810.023cb3e0@pop-server> <20041210152654.G91108@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <095480B0-4B29-11D9-82E7-000A956B167C@comcast.net> On Dec 10, 2004, at 7:53 PM, Tom Jennings wrote: > On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > >>> Is there anyway that it can be attached external to the PC through >>> serial, >>> parallel or USB ports > > Duct tape works, but it gets gummy with time and the drive falls off. > Well, there's always velcro... From oceanid987 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 10 03:39:23 2004 From: oceanid987 at yahoo.com (david pasha) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: hp7900 Message-ID: <20041210093923.75919.qmail@web52210.mail.yahoo.com> i design one board install in PC for example in PII 333Mhz and connect to HP2100 (connect to I/O for HP7900A disc in 2100) HP2100 think connected to hp7900 but it connect to new board . new borad work like hp7900 data on hp7900 save in file on PC this board get data from PC and send it to HP2100 or get from HP2100 and send to PC for replace in file. all thing work like hp7900 stuts word ,addressing,send and recive data. oceanid987@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! – What will yours do? From oceanid987 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 10 07:12:09 2004 From: oceanid987 at yahoo.com (david pasha) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: hp2100s Message-ID: <20041210131209.50812.qmail@web52208.mail.yahoo.com> dear sir HEWLETT PACKARD Microprogrammable System Computer HP2100S is a compact data processor include: 32k word 16bit RAM , peripherals I/O interface,floating point and arithmetic capabilities,interrupt,two-channel DMA , operator panel CRT & KEYBOARD ,software for hp2100S : fortran,algol,basic .user can write progam and cpmpiling program and run it .several operating system are available HP7900A disc drive can store 5M byte in two disc fix and removable HP2100 or HP2116 with two I/O work with HP7900 disc drive (HP2100 have DMA). hp7900 work like floppy disc in PC.HP2100 designed in 1970. you know above information , but my project : i design one board install in PC for example in PII 333Mhz and connect to HP2100 (connect to I/O for HP7900A disc in 2100) HP2100 think connected to hp7900 but it connect to new board . new borad work like hp7900 data on hp7900 save in file on PC this board get data from PC and send it to HP2100 or get from HP2100 and send to PC for replace in file. all thing work like hp7900 stuts word ,addressing,send and recive data. oceanid987@yahoo.com please connect me --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! – Try it today! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sat Dec 11 03:04:54 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:36:46 MST." <41BA330E.7080104@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <200412110904.JAA00352@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, ben franchuk said: > Joe R. wrote: > > I think you have it backward. The motor speeds are the results of the > > line frequency not vice versa. > > But you generate line frequency with a rotating machine, thus the speed > of the generator is your limiting factor. Kind of a chicken and egg > problem almost. Ben. > > It also depends on the number of poles your motor/generator has. Other frequencies were tried in the early days - 100Hz for example. (The Anderson radio transmitter at Grimeton, Sweden generates 17.2KHz. It's a pruely mechanical transmitter using a big generator.) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Dec 11 06:34:57 2004 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: More data on dead wall wart In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > So I double checked the AC voltage output on this TI wall wart for the > Silent 700 model 703 and it definitely has no voltage (and correction on > my meter settings: it has 200VAC and 600VAC). > Next step is to crack it open. Anyone know a good way to open up these > permanently sealed transformers? I've used two techniques successfully. The first involves a rubber/plastic mallet and possibly also a blunt wedge to hammer into the seam. The other technique involves squeezing the housing in a padded vice at odd angles. I tend to use the vice when the seam on the case has an overlap. -Toth From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Dec 11 08:39:18 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? In-Reply-To: References: <1102672693.13292.10.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041211083530.05b71768@pc> At 08:26 PM 12/10/2004, Tom Jennings wrote: >> > > So. Are there any women (left) on this list? Hmm... I wonder why. >> > >> > There used to be one. She no longer is with us here. I think she more >> > got fed up with the general unruliness of the list more than anything. >> >> Was that Alison? I remember the name from the list way back and wondered >> what had happened to her, she seemed pretty clued-up on things. > >Umm, this is a bit ... embarrassing? You're absolutely right. Normally it would take hours and many brews before the men-folk look up and look around and say "Where'd all the women go?" What's next? Loyalty oaths? Outing the transgendered? Poking Sellam until he admits he's linked to terrorist acts? Forced group-sing of "Let the eagle soar"? - John From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Dec 11 08:34:47 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: <200412102258.OAA11621@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200412102258.OAA11621@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041211083146.05b71b40@pc> At 04:58 PM 12/10/2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >There are 3-1/2 inch drives for the USB. It might be that >the software would see a 5-1/4 drive as it is through >one of these interfaces. Remove the 3-1/2 and wire it >to the 5-1/4. And power would come from where? I doubt USB can power an old 5 1/4". > One of the catalogs that I've seen recently had >a USB experimenters kit. One could most likely use >one of these with a PIC and a controller chip to >interface to just about any drive. And these kits let you set all the magic parameters that are sent to the OS? And one of those tells what type of floppy it is? I wonder how that's done. Maybe 8" is possible, too. At 05:30 PM 12/10/2004, Fred Cisin wrote: >It may be possible to convert some USB drives from 3.5 to 5.25. >But many of the MODERN ones have combined the USB interface with >the circuitry of the drive. I thought the same thing... along with thinking that these USB 3 1/2" externals must be very low-power, laptop-y sorts of drives. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Dec 11 08:29:29 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: References: <200412102209.OAA11612@clulw009.amd.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041210171810.023cb3e0@pop-server> <20041210152654.G91108@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041211082716.05b71f18@pc> At 08:53 PM 12/10/2004, you wrote: >On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: >> > Is there anyway that it can be attached external to the PC through serial, >> > parallel or USB ports > >Duct tape works, but it gets gummy with time and the drive falls off. I rest assured that I'm in the presence of a trustworthy, knowing geek if I see that their computer(s) are not closed up in cases but instead their components are open and exposed to the fresh air, and if some of the dangling components are held back with duct tape. Outdoors, duct tape gum gets hard and flakes away. - John From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Dec 11 10:17:57 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <200412110904.JAA00352@citadel.metropolis.local> References: <200412110904.JAA00352@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, Stan Barr wrote: > Hi, > > > (The Anderson radio transmitter at Grimeton, Sweden generates 17.2KHz. ^^^^^^^^^^^ Alexanderson, no? Cheers R. Fessenden From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Dec 11 10:30:05 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041211082716.05b71f18@pc> References: <200412102209.OAA11612@clulw009.amd.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041210171810.023cb3e0@pop-server> <20041210152654.G91108@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041211113005.00b2a100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:29 AM 12/11/04 -0600, you wrote: >At 08:53 PM 12/10/2004, you wrote: >>On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: >>> > Is there anyway that it can be attached external to the PC through serial, >>> > parallel or USB ports >> >>Duct tape works, but it gets gummy with time and the drive falls off. > >I rest assured that I'm in the presence of a trustworthy, knowing geek >if I see that their computer(s) are not closed up in cases but instead >their components are open and exposed to the fresh air, and if >some of the dangling components are held back with duct tape. I use hot melt glue on mine. I won't get gooy and let things fall off and it's fairly easy to remove things when you want to. I've got about six fans mounted at critical points in mine and they're all held in with HM glue. Also extra LED indicators brought out and stuck to the side of the case where I can see them. > >Outdoors, duct tape gum gets hard and flakes away. And leaves a hell of a mess of dried adhesive. Joe > >- John > > From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Dec 11 10:39:00 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: Looking for a place to get small(-ish) SCSI drives In-Reply-To: <20041205093921.GB3104@loomcom.com> References: <20041205093921.GB3104@loomcom.com> Message-ID: <200412110839000498.0AA400AA@192.168.42.129> Hi, Seth, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 05-Dec-04 at 01:39 Seth Morabito wrote: >recognized by the computers I fool around with. But drives smaller >than that are suddenly "rare" and "expensive", $30 or $40 for any >SCSI drive under 9GB at a lot of resellers I've visited lately. > >Anyone know where those stacks went? Are small drives just impossible >to come by for less than $30 now? I wouldn't say 'impossible' at all. I would add that the prices you're seeing may be a regional thing. I say this because the local (Seattle) used place, RE-PC, has boxfuls of 1-2 gig SCSI drives for about $5 each. Granted, they're getting harder to find -- most of what I see now are in the 1-4 gig range. However, I do see a few sub-1gig units. If you're not talking about huge quantities, I could probably work on picking up some for you. Let me know. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Dec 11 11:13:13 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041211113005.00b2a100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <200412102209.OAA11612@clulw009.amd.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041210171810.023cb3e0@pop-server> <20041210152654.G91108@shell.lmi.net> <3.0.6.32.20041211113005.00b2a100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041211111229.05baf070@pc> At 10:30 AM 12/11/2004, Joe R. wrote: >I use hot melt glue on mine. I won't get gooy and let things fall off and >it's fairly easy to remove things when you want to. I've got about six fans >mounted at critical points in mine and they're all held in with HM glue. Wow, you demonstrate the other half of my theory: that there are two kinds: some use duct tape, some use hot glue. I've daydreamed about a rapid prototyping machine that used relatively inexpensive hot glue sticks to create plastic 3D models. - John From acme at gbronline.com Sat Dec 11 11:26:33 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: 8-bit ISA SCSI (was Re: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150?) References: <20041208203412.G49412@shell.lmi.net> <20041209132148.N65479@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <00f201c4dfa6$900db880$ce4f0945@acme> As usual, I'm coming into this conversation late, but for those who are interested, you can still buy Rancho RT-1000B 8-bit ISA SCSI controllers for $15, brand new with a 90-day warranty: http://www.hitechcafe.com/eshop/product.asp?dept_id=4&sku=RT1000B-2 I used these extensively years ago, and built hundreds of Win 3.1 and Win 95 machines with them. They are bootable, and used to include the driver diskette (I still have some of the diskettes -- as well as a few of the controllers). Remarkably, I never, ever saw one fail, and they worked with every (small) SCSI hard drive and CD-ROM I ever tried with them. Until a couple of months ago, I was still using one with a 50MB drive in the machine we used for a cash register in our shop. And, now that I recall, I've done a number of data transfers from XT clones to newer machines for customers by sticking an RT-1000B, with a small hard drive attached, into the XT clone, xcopy-ing the data from an ST-225, then moving the controller and the SCSI drive to the newer machine and reversing the process. Later -- Glen 0/0 ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Cisin To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 4:40 PM Subject: Re: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? > On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, 9000 VAX wrote: > > There are 8 bit SCSI controllers too. Once I sold two to one guy for > > $10. Both used NCR 53c90, both had ROM and were bootable. > > I have a DTC 3250 (SCSI + floppy) with manual AND DRIVER DISK!, and a > Future Domain TMC-840. Both have ROMs (EPROMs?) They are available if > they will help. > (I found them a few days ago while looking for my ST-01s (another thread); > Some book or magazine had had source code for a stand-alone CD-ROM driver > using the ST-01, and I had gotten a few to play with many years ago.) > > > > > SMARTDRV was bundled with Windoze 3.10, and will work with > > > some of the <3.30 DOS versions. > > > But you need to use 3.31 or newer to have any partitions > > > larger than 32M. > > XT's do not have more than 640K memory, thus SMARTDRV is not very useful. > But wouldn't a few hundred K of cache be helpful? > > While it's true that XTs can not have more than 640K of REAL memory > (actually 1M minus some overhead with some hardware and software hacks), > not even HIMEM, and certainly no XMS (Extended Memory Specification), > I have had up to 8meg of "Expanded" memory on XTs. > I have a tote full of TallTree JRAM, JLASER, etc. stuff. > I don't know what the max was on the later LIM (Lotus Intel MicroSoft) > EMS (Expanded Memory Specification). > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > From vcf at siconic.com Sat Dec 11 11:34:40 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Got a HP 2648. Now what? Now women on list In-Reply-To: <0412101606.AA03782@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Ladyelec@aol.com wrote: > > > Ya'll have at least one. > > ME! > > Isa > > Thank you for being on our list, and for your interest in Classic Computing! What about me? Don't I get a personal "thank you" as well? Or is it just because I'm a big hairy GUY that I get overlooked? Sheesh, the chauvenism on this list! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mapleleafman at gmail.com Sat Dec 11 11:42:14 2004 From: mapleleafman at gmail.com (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: Grid 1520 Message-ID: Hi crew. Question about a Gridacase 1520. Is anyone familiar with these laptops? This is a 286, really good shape. It won't boot, dead as a doornail. The guy at the thrift shop told me it was working when it was brought in the day before, now I see that two (or one) chips are missing from under the flap in the top left right above the keyboard. I figure they were lifted between dropoff and my buying it. Any ideas if these chips, which I think are application roms, would prevent the thing from booting? If so, is there such a thing as a replacement available from someone here or elsewhere? The thing must have been the first Toughbook or something, and I'd love to see it working. Thanks for any info anyone can share. (does anyone still need a gmail invite? I have lots. ) Brian Mahoney From vcf at siconic.com Sat Dec 11 11:44:10 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Got a HP 2648. Now what? Now women on list In-Reply-To: <1102705985.13292.32.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Fri, 2004-12-10 at 10:34 -0800, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > Most of the > > women we've had in the past were into the heavy metal machines. > > You know, "If you could pick it up, it really wasn't a computer." > > Dwight > > Hell, it ain't really a computer unless you can stand inside it :-) If it doesn't crush and kill you if it tips over onto you then it's not a Real Computer. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sat Dec 11 11:45:18 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? In-Reply-To: <006301c4def6$05ec2660$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, John Allain wrote: > ** On the other hand, this is a great > place for women to meet men. ** NO COMMENT ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Dec 11 11:46:00 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Got a HP 2648. Now what? Now women on list References: Message-ID: <41BB3258.8090009@jetnet.ab.ca> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > If it doesn't crush and kill you if it tips over onto you then it's not a > Real Computer. So does this make it your 5th life or so? :) From pcw at mesanet.com Sat Dec 11 11:50:44 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041211111229.05baf070@pc> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, John Foust wrote: > At 10:30 AM 12/11/2004, Joe R. wrote: > >I use hot melt glue on mine. I won't get gooy and let things fall off and > >it's fairly easy to remove things when you want to. I've got about six fans > >mounted at critical points in mine and they're all held in with HM glue. > > Wow, you demonstrate the other half of my theory: that there are > two kinds: some use duct tape, some use hot glue. > > I've daydreamed about a rapid prototyping machine that used > relatively inexpensive hot glue sticks to create plastic 3D models. > > - John > There are such devices though I think they use ABS plastic. Newer ones (3D printers) seem to be using dust of some kind (starch?) with water or something sprayed on the dust with an ink-jet head. Peter Wallace From dmabry at mich.com Sat Dec 11 11:55:12 2004 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: Grid 1520 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41BB3480.3040400@mich.com> Climbing back through the cobwebs, I find some information. The 1520 was still when GRiD was making them out of magnesium. The flap just above the keyboard was for EPROMS. On those EPROMS you could store DOS files, as big as the memories could hold. I used them in 27010's. Depending on how many sockets there were, you could even split bigger files across more than one EPROM. GRiD had a program called ROMBUILD that would take the files you feed it and create ROM images to burn into the ROM's you would then plug into those slots. You could make the ROM's into bootable devices as well, using ROMBUILD. I sent that program to someone who put it online in the Yahoo group for Grid computers. So you should be able to get it, along with a scanned copy of the typewritten instructions on how to use it. There were several versions of the Gridcase, from 8086 versions through 386SX versions. By the time the 486 came about Grid was making more conventional looking plastic laptops and soon after that was sold to Tandy. The 1520 should boot from a floppy or its internal hard drive. If it powers up but doesn't access the floppy drive, try hitting the "F" key right after the BIOS on powerup. Good luck. The Gridcase was a very cool computer. Lots of military use. And where I work, DaimlerChrysler Engineering, we used lots of them in vehicles because of their ruggedness. Brian Mahoney wrote: > Hi crew. Question about a Gridacase 1520. Is anyone familiar with > these laptops? This is a 286, really good shape. It won't boot, dead > as a doornail. The guy at the thrift shop told me it was working when > it was brought in the day before, now I see that two (or one) chips > are missing from under the flap in the top left right above the > keyboard. I figure they were lifted between dropoff and my buying it. > > Any ideas if these chips, which I think are application roms, would > prevent the thing from booting? If so, is there such a thing as a > replacement available from someone here or elsewhere? The thing must > have been the first Toughbook or something, and I'd love to see it > working. > > Thanks for any info anyone can share. > > (does anyone still need a gmail invite? I have lots. ) > > Brian Mahoney > From acme at gbronline.com Sat Dec 11 11:56:59 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: Female listmembers (was Re: Got a HP 2648. Now what?) References: <1102672693.13292.10.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <017101c4dfaa$d04c1d20$ce4f0945@acme> ----- Original Message ----- From: Jules Richardson To: Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:58 AM Subject: Re: Got a HP 2648. Now what? > On Thu, 2004-12-09 at 20:52 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > > > > > > I'll keep going: > > > > > > So. Are there any women (left) on this list? Hmm... I wonder why. > > > > There used to be one. She no longer is with us here. I think she more > > got fed up with the general unruliness of the list more than anything. > > Was that Alison? I remember the name from the list way back and wondered > what had happened to her, she seemed pretty clued-up on things. There were two whom I recall -- Allison Parent and Megan Gentry. Allison left during the Great Flame War which resulted in the cctech/cctalk split. A terrible loss to the list (IMHO) -- she knows a *lot* about CP/M as well as design-level electronics. I haven't seen a post from Megan in at least six months -- another huge loss to the list, as she has a tremendous amount of knowledge of all things DEC. Sad. Glen 0/0 From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Dec 11 12:08:39 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: Female listmembers (was Re: Got a HP 2648. Now what?) In-Reply-To: <017101c4dfaa$d04c1d20$ce4f0945@acme> References: <1102672693.13292.10.camel@weka.localdomain> <017101c4dfaa$d04c1d20$ce4f0945@acme> Message-ID: <41BB37A7.5050008@mdrconsult.com> Glen Goodwin wrote: > Allison left during the Great Flame War which resulted in the cctech/cctalk > split. A terrible loss to the list (IMHO) -- she knows a *lot* about CP/M > as well as design-level electronics. > > I haven't seen a post from Megan in at least six months -- another huge > loss to the list, as she has a tremendous amount of knowledge of all > things DEC. I thought I saw a post by Megan just a couple of weeks ago. Also, I don't remember seeing any posts by Allison in the .folklore newsgroups in quite a while, either. Doc From acme at gbronline.com Sat Dec 11 12:10:46 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: Greetings to Isa References: <66.4c18a406.2eeafe5b@aol.com> Message-ID: <01b201c4dfac$bd55c3e0$ce4f0945@acme> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 8:27 AM Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Got a HP 2648. Now what? Now women on list > Ya'll have at least one. > ME! > Isa This is good news -- welcome aboard, and thanks for speaking up! I'd hate to think that: A) No women anywhere are interested in classic computers or B) We're such a nasty and cantankerous bunch here that no women will participate in our discussions. Isa, what are your classic computing interests? What machines do you have? How long have you been a listmember? Etc etc. Later -- Glen 0/0 From acme at gbronline.com Sat Dec 11 12:14:46 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC References: <200412102258.OAA11621@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <01cb01c4dfad$4c56a6e0$ce4f0945@acme> ----- Original Message ----- From: Dwight K. Elvey To: Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 5:58 PM Subject: Re: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC > Does anyone recall if the ZIP drives were on the floppy > ports? If so, one could take a parallel ZIP dive and > remove the drive part to connect a floppy drive. One > still needs to create some software. All of the internal ZIPs I've ever seen have been IDE. Later -- Glen 0/0 From melamy at earthlink.net Sat Dec 11 12:15:30 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:17 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041211111229.05baf070@pc> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041211131036.042ce410@mail.earthlink.net> there are commercial machines that use a liquid photopolymer and a laser. You can scan a 3d object or feed in a autocad drawing. The object is then "built" from the bottom up 4 thousands of an inch at a time. You can create up to a final object size of a cubic foot with one machine I have seen. Its really cool to watch it make a part. The photopolymer is around $5 an ounce though (I seem to recall). > > I've daydreamed about a rapid prototyping machine that used > > relatively inexpensive hot glue sticks to create plastic 3D models. > > > > - John > > > > > >There are such devices though I think they use ABS plastic. Newer ones (3D >printers) seem to be using dust of some kind (starch?) with water or something >sprayed on the dust with an ink-jet head. > > >Peter Wallace From vcf at siconic.com Sat Dec 11 12:15:39 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Got a HP 2648. Now what? Now women on list In-Reply-To: <41BB3258.8090009@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, ben franchuk wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > If it doesn't crush and kill you if it tips over onto you then it's not a > > Real Computer. > > > So does this make it your 5th life or so? :) I think my worst computer related injury is a recurring one: I keep bumping my kneecaps on monitors that are sitting on the ground. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From acme at gbronline.com Sat Dec 11 12:33:01 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? References: <1102672693.13292.10.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <01f201c4dfaf$d94d2900$ce4f0945@acme> ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Jennings To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:26 PM Subject: Re: Got a HP 2648. Now what? > > > > So. Are there any women (left) on this list? Hmm... I wonder why. > > > > > > There used to be one. She no longer is with us here. I think she more > > > got fed up with the general unruliness of the list more than anything. > > > > Was that Alison? I remember the name from the list way back and wondered > > what had happened to her, she seemed pretty clued-up on things. > > Umm, this is a bit ... embarrassing? Umm, how so, Tom? If you're talking about the fact that the male-female ratio on this list is what, 800 to 1, then I have to agree. It's embarrassing. Perhaps you meant something else. ;-) Glen 0/0 From acme at gbronline.com Sat Dec 11 12:34:59 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC References: <200412102209.OAA11612@clulw009.amd.com><6.2.0.14.2.20041210171810.023cb3e0@pop-server><20041210152654.G91108@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <01fd01c4dfb0$1f8eb1e0$ce4f0945@acme> ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Jennings To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:53 PM Subject: Re: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC > On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > > Is there anyway that it can be attached external to the PC through serial, > > > parallel or USB ports > > Duct tape works, but it gets gummy with time and the drive falls off. Yeah, nails work better ;-) Glen 0/0 From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sat Dec 11 12:34:29 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: TTYs for the deaf Message-ID: <0412111834.AA05377@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Hello folks, I have a question about those TTYs that the deaf use. Are they real Teletypes, like ASR33 and friends, or not? I guess probably not, because it would be so super-cool if they were that it's probably too good to be true, but I thought I would ask anyway. So what are they? Are they normal ASCII terminals with standard modems built in, or something entirely different? Can one pretend to be deaf, go to some social service or whatever agency asking to use a deaf TTY, and dial into a timesharing host or BBS with it? It also seems like there are two kinds of deaf devices, TTY and TDD. What's the difference? MS From spectre at floodgap.com Sat Dec 11 13:09:40 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: <01cb01c4dfad$4c56a6e0$ce4f0945@acme> from Glen Goodwin at "Dec 11, 4 01:14:46 pm" Message-ID: <200412111909.LAA82816@floodgap.com> > > Does anyone recall if the ZIP drives were on the floppy > > ports? If so, one could take a parallel ZIP dive and > > remove the drive part to connect a floppy drive. One > > still needs to create some software. > > All of the internal ZIPs I've ever seen have been IDE. ... except Mac ones, which are SCSI (in the beige PCI Power Mac line before the G3). -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Age is a very high price to pay for maturity. ------------------------------ From wacarder at usit.net Sat Dec 11 12:51:49 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: TTYs for the deaf In-Reply-To: <0412111834.AA05377@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: > Hello folks, > > I have a question about those TTYs that the deaf use. Are they real > Teletypes, like ASR33 and friends, or not? I guess probably not, because > it would be so super-cool if they were that it's probably too good to > be true, but I thought I would ask anyway. So what are they? Are they > normal ASCII terminals with standard modems built in, or something > entirely different? Can one pretend to be deaf, go to some social service > or whatever agency asking to use a deaf TTY, and dial into a timesharing > host or BBS with it? > > It also seems like there are two kinds of deaf devices, TTY and TDD. > What's the difference? > > MS I have one of those that used to belong to a friend of mine who taught deaf children. This one is a real TTY, but not ASR-33. It's the 5 bit Baudot version from the 1940s, not the 8 bit ASCII. I saw them use these things before. They hooked up an acoustical coupler to the phone and dialed someone else who had a TTY. I suppose instant messaging and other modern technologies have rendered the old TTYs obsolete. Ashley From acme at gbronline.com Sat Dec 11 12:53:59 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: Anyone need 27128s? Message-ID: <022101c4dfb2$c71177c0$ce4f0945@acme> I just acquired a large pile of 27128s and 27C128s -- clearly pulled from sockets, and as of yet untested. I thought I'd offer them to the list first. Ten for $10 plus postage. If no takers, I'll clean and verify 'em and put 'em up on the Web site for $3 each. Please contact me offlist. Later -- Glen http://www.acme-sales.net From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Dec 11 13:00:29 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: TTYs for the deaf In-Reply-To: <0412111834.AA05377@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0412111834.AA05377@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <20041211104553.A6860@shell.lmi.net> On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Hello folks, > I have a question about those TTYs that the deaf use. Are they real > Teletypes, like ASR33 and friends, or not? I guess probably not, because > it would be so super-cool if they were that it's probably too good to > be true, but I thought I would ask anyway. So what are they? Are they > normal ASCII terminals with standard modems built in, or something > entirely different? They ARE Baudot (well, actually Murray) code devices. SOME of the newest ones ALSO support ASCII. The communications protocol is CCITT .18? (sorry, can't remember for sure.) SOME (few) of the newest ones ALSO support Bell 103, Bell 202, 212, or even v.90. Most of the people using them do not understand the difference between "code" and "communications protocol". Therefore, you will run into a lot of confusion about "ASCII is a higher speed than Baudot", etc. > Can one pretend to be deaf, go to some social service > or whatever agency asking to use a deaf TTY, and dial into a timesharing > host or BBS with it? If you can prove a significant hearing impairment (they sometimes want an audiogram, and an audiologists signature), you can get a long term free loan of one. For a long time, there has been a tiny surcharge on all phone service to pay for those programs. Any large bank of payphones is SUPPOSED to include at least one - try your nearest large airport. They often show up at flea markets (often borrowed ones that weren't returned.) There is also software available to emulate one with certain "voice" modems. > It also seems like there are two kinds of deaf devices, TTY and TDD. > What's the difference? "politically correct" name change. "Teletype" v "Telecommunications Device for the Deaf" NO difference. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Dec 11 13:01:11 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041211111229.05baf070@pc> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041211125757.05b40b90@pc> At 11:50 AM 12/11/2004, you wrote: >There are such devices though I think they use ABS plastic. Newer ones (3D >printers) seem to be using dust of some kind (starch?) with water or something >sprayed on the dust with an ink-jet head. Once having been in the 3D market, I have a small collection of objects from UV-cured stereolithography and Z Corp's starch-based system, including one of my head as scanned by a laser body scanner. - John From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Dec 11 13:25:08 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: TTYs for the deaf In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041211112402.J6860@shell.lmi.net> > > entirely different? Can one pretend to be deaf, go to some social service > > or whatever agency asking to use a deaf TTY, and dial into a timesharing > > host or BBS with it? Do you know of any timesharing host or BBS that is compatible with TTY? From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sat Dec 11 14:04:05 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: TTYs for the deaf Message-ID: <0412112004.AA05540@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Fred Cisin wrote: > Do you know of any timesharing host or BBS that is compatible with TTY? Sure, any PDP-11 or VAX UNIX timesharing host with a Bell 103 modem attached to one of its RS-232 ports will happily accept calls from an ASR33 TTY. It's a pity that the deaf TTYs are 5-bit rather than ASCII. The reason for my question had to do with my campaign to get the few people I care about to switch from PeeCees to timesharing computing, i.e., instead of using a PeeCee, paying for Internet service, etc., get an account on my VAX and dial into it from a Teletype. One of the problems is of course that no one has Teletypes any more. I was wondering if the deaf ones could be used, as in the current horrible state of the world it seems like Teletypes are now only used by the disabled, rather than by 100% bodily abled people who are more intelligent than the masses and want to use timesharing UNIX (or VMS or RSX or TENEX or ...) instead of a pee sea. BTW, has there ever been a Teletype model that did 300 baud instead of 110? Perhaps Model 35 or 37? My Courier V.Everything modems are great, and they can go down to Bell 103 or V.21, but to my knowledge they do not have an asynchronous pass-thru mode between the RS-232 TxD/RxD lines and the Bell 103 FSK modulator/demodulator, it always has to go through the modem's internal buffers, which requires it to know the baud rate, and as a result it can only operate at 300 baud with Bell 103 / V.21, even though this modulation scheme is in fact asynchronous and baud rate-oblivious for the range 0-300 baud. The end result is that they can't answer 110 baud calls from ASR33s. Bummer. MS From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sat Dec 11 12:45:42 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 11 Dec 2004 11:17:57 EST." Message-ID: <200412111845.SAA09424@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, John Lawson said: > > > On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, Stan Barr wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > (The Anderson radio transmitter at Grimeton, Sweden generates 17.2KHz. > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Alexanderson, no? Of course...brain not working well lately. See http://www.wireless.org.uk/mechrx.htm (if it's still there) for a matchimg *mechanical* receiver. I was going to have a go at making one myself... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From kth at srv.net Sat Dec 11 15:12:09 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: <59777.67.36.83.25.1102710586.squirrel@67.36.83.25> References: <6d.3a39e75c.2eea9f8f@aol.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041210073901.03a7f580@pop-server> <45660000.1102683756@libcat1.york.ac.uk> <41B9BE8C.9050704@compsys.to> <59777.67.36.83.25.1102710586.squirrel@67.36.83.25> Message-ID: <41BB62A9.2050805@srv.net> Tom Peters wrote: >There was an attempt to "simplify" connection of multiple floppy drives >(meaning TWO) at one time by adding a "twist" to the cable-- some >conductors in the ribbon are cut out and reversed, which is a sort of >"cable select" for floppy drives. > > It was done on an obscure machine called the IBM PC. If you open up a modern PC with two floppy drives, guess what kind of cable you will see? >I seem to recall in this case that one would jumper both drives as drive A >in such a case, or as DS0. > > You jumber them both as drive B (DS1). Can you even find floppy drives any more that are not hard coded as drive B? >Stupid idea. Use a straight thru floppy cable and jumper one for DS0 and >one for DS1. We get it. > >If you intermingle the two drive select ideas you may have problems where >both or niether drives light up and niether can read. > > > But if you become the de-facto standard, all the clone makers will copy exactly what you did. Both the good and bad ideas. ---- Two floppies and 640K are enough for anybody... From allain at panix.com Sat Dec 11 16:03:51 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: Female listmembers (was Re: Got a HP 2648. Now what?) References: <1102672693.13292.10.camel@weka.localdomain><017101c4dfaa$d04c1d20$ce4f0945@acme> <41BB37A7.5050008@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <004601c4dfcd$4ccb5420$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Also, I don't remember seeing any posts by Allison in the > .folklore newsgroups in quite a while, either. People change jobs, shifting their priorities. It wouldn't hurt if people here practiced up on their common courtesies, though. John A. From news at computercollector.com Sat Dec 11 16:14:18 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: Female listmembers (was Re: Got a HP 2648. Now what?) In-Reply-To: <017101c4dfaa$d04c1d20$ce4f0945@acme> Message-ID: <20041211221418.31076.qmail@web52807.mail.yahoo.com> I don't know about this particular list, but there are many noteworthy women in our hobby. Here's a reference point: there are several female subscribers to my newsletter, more than I can count out of memory. Just last week, a woman (Katherine Wasserman, Ph.D.) was the focus of the main article! Katie collects vintage calculators, many of which are computers of course; she even has a 1947 Swiss follow-up version of the Enigma machine. She's got ** 300 ** pieces -- almost 400 if you count the replicas. And what about Jeri Ellsworth? She's not active on this list, but she can out-engineer Commodore stuff (and who knows what else) better than almost anyone, whether they're boy, girl, or space alien. Also, women are a huge segment of the vintage gaming hobby. --- Glen Goodwin wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jules Richardson > To: > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:58 AM > Subject: Re: Got a HP 2648. Now what? > > > > On Thu, 2004-12-09 at 20:52 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > > > > > > > > I'll keep going: > > > > > > > > So. Are there any women (left) on this list? Hmm... I wonder why. > > > > > > There used to be one. She no longer is with us here. I think she more > > > got fed up with the general unruliness of the list more than anything. > > > > Was that Alison? I remember the name from the list way back and wondered > > what had happened to her, she seemed pretty clued-up on things. > > There were two whom I recall -- Allison Parent and Megan Gentry. > > Allison left during the Great Flame War which resulted in the cctech/cctalk > split. A terrible loss to the list (IMHO) -- she knows a *lot* about CP/M > as well as design-level electronics. > > I haven't seen a post from Megan in at least six months -- another huge > loss to the list, as she has a tremendous amount of knowledge of all > things DEC. > > Sad. > > Glen > 0/0 > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 600 readers and counting! From dholland at woh.rr.com Sat Dec 11 16:21:33 2004 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Got a HP 2648. Now what? Now women on list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1102803693.24397.2.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> Perhaps if you improved your appearance in a dress you'd receive more appreciation. :-) David On Sat, 2004-12-11 at 09:34 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > > > Ladyelec@aol.com wrote: > > > > > Ya'll have at least one. > > > ME! > > > Isa > > > > Thank you for being on our list, and for your interest in Classic Computing! > > What about me? Don't I get a personal "thank you" as well? Or is it just > because I'm a big hairy GUY that I get overlooked? > > Sheesh, the chauvenism on this list! > From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Dec 11 16:24:47 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: TTYs for the deaf In-Reply-To: <0412112004.AA05540@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0412112004.AA05540@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <20041211140658.U11035@shell.lmi.net> On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > > Do you know of any timesharing host or BBS that is compatible with TTY? > Sure, any PDP-11 or VAX UNIX timesharing host with a Bell 103 modem > attached to one of its RS-232 ports will happily accept calls from an > ASR33 TTY. so,... the ASR33 TTY is Bell 103 at 300 baud? "MODERN" modems that will do Bell 103, will often only do it at 300 baud. ... and if you take that Bell 103 modem off, and replace it with a V.18 modem, then the TDDs can connect at 45.45 baud. > It's a pity that the deaf TTYs are 5-bit rather than ASCII. The reason surely SOMEBODY knows how to write a look-up table program to translate! (it's substantially less than 1K) > for my question had to do with my campaign to get the few people I care > about to switch from PeeCees to timesharing computing, i.e., instead of > using a PeeCee, paying for Internet service, etc., get an account on my > VAX and dial into it from a Teletype. One of the problems is of course > that no one has Teletypes any more. I was wondering if the deaf ones > could be used, as in the current horrible state of the world it seems > like Teletypes are now only used by the disabled, rather than by 100% bodily > abled people who are more intelligent than the masses and want to use > timesharing UNIX (or VMS or RSX or TENEX or ...) instead of a pee sea. The cheapest terminal that you can get is an obsolete PC. Come to my neighborhood during the sidewalk/bulk pickup days! TDDs are more expensive, and do not have a 24 x 80 screen. They typically have a single line display, and sometimes an adding machine width printer. For what kind of applications would you consider that interface connected to a timesharing system to be more usable than a personal computer, or a 24 x 80 screen terminal? From tomj at wps.com Sat Dec 11 16:27:59 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041211083530.05b71768@pc> References: <1102672693.13292.10.camel@weka.localdomain> <6.2.0.14.2.20041211083530.05b71768@pc> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, John Foust wrote: > You're absolutely right. Normally it would take hours and many brews > before the men-folk look up and look around and say "Where'd all the women go?" > > What's next? Loyalty oaths? Outing the transgendered? Poking Sellam > until he admits he's linked to terrorist acts? Forced group-sing of > "Let the eagle soar"? Those are all EXCELLENT suggestions. From tomj at wps.com Sat Dec 11 16:36:33 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? In-Reply-To: <01f201c4dfaf$d94d2900$ce4f0945@acme> References: <1102672693.13292.10.camel@weka.localdomain> <01f201c4dfaf$d94d2900$ce4f0945@acme> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, Glen Goodwin wrote: > > Umm, this is a bit ... embarrassing? > > Umm, how so, Tom? If you're talking about the fact that the male-female > ratio on this list is what, 800 to 1, then I have to agree. It's > embarrassing. That's what I meant alright, but I regret now pointing it out for a number of reasons. However I think John Foust's idea of a loyalty oath is a good one. One rendition of "Eagle Soaring" was scary enough though, we can skip that. From tomj at wps.com Sat Dec 11 16:40:52 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <200412111845.SAA09424@citadel.metropolis.local> References: <200412111845.SAA09424@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, Stan Barr wrote: > > See http://www.wireless.org.uk/mechrx.htm (if it's still there) for a > matchimg *mechanical* receiver. I was going to have a go at making one > myself... WOW! that's a good hack! From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Dec 11 16:42:42 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: Lisp machine wisdom Message-ID: <1102804962.15284.13.camel@weka.localdomain> Makes perfect sense :) A novice was trying to fix a broken Lisp machine by turning the power off and on. Knight, seeing what the student was doing spoke sternly: "You can not fix a machine by just power-cycling it with no understanding of what is going wrong." Knight turned the machine off and on. The machine worked. From tomj at wps.com Sat Dec 11 16:45:41 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: Female listmembers (was Re: Got a HP 2648. Now what?) In-Reply-To: <004601c4dfcd$4ccb5420$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <1102672693.13292.10.camel@weka.localdomain><017101c4dfaa$d04c1d20$ce4f0945@acme> <41BB37A7.5050008@mdrconsult.com> <004601c4dfcd$4ccb5420$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, John Allain wrote: > It wouldn't hurt if people here practiced up on their common > courtesies, though. Right. This was my original intent with my post. I like this list because it is a bit of a free-for-all, but personally I try to be respectful at the same time. From tomj at wps.com Sat Dec 11 16:54:37 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: TTYs for the deaf In-Reply-To: <20041211140658.U11035@shell.lmi.net> References: <0412112004.AA05540@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <20041211140658.U11035@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: ASR-33's and their ilk are ASCII and 110 baud (43's do 300 I think). The TTY-for-the-deaf tech is based upon older ITA2 (aka "baudot" but it's not -- no teletype-like device EVER used Baudot's code, it was for manual (finger) input) 5-bit code with two code tables (aka cases) selected with FIGS and LTRS. They mostly run at 60 wpm, aka 45.45 baud. Besides the speed issue, which requires good buffering or per-character flow-control handshaking (not commonly done well, and not possible on msoft OSs past DOS), you need a little state machine for code table/case translation each direction, and then about 1/2 the ASCII code set simply doesn't exist in ITA2, and there are no control codes in common except CR, LF, bell and NUL. Plus unless you re-wire them they are all half-duplex; pressing a key prints locally. ASR33's are 20mA current loop, but the older devices want 60mA, and 100 volts on the loop with a big series resistor; the current risetime requirements make it so. From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sat Dec 11 17:07:48 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: TTYs for the deaf Message-ID: <0412112307.AA05846@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Fred Cisin wrote: > the ASR33 TTY is Bell 103 at 300 baud? That's what I've always thought, anyone who knows otherwise please correct me. > "MODERN" modems that will do Bell 103, will often only do it at 300 baud. Yes, that's what I wrote in my previous post. My question about 300 baud Teletypes went unanswered though. I do, however, have a few TI Silent 700s. These are absolutely lovely 300 baud portable terminals, small and portable enough to compete with modern laptops, and even though they weren't made by Teletype, I think of them as portable teletypes. There were two versions: 703 with RS-232 interface and 707 with a built-in Bell 103 modem. My only 703 doesn't work (the printhead moves but prints nothing), but my 707s work great, and I do in fact travel with one to UFO conferences, etc. I will be celebrating New Year at Butterfly Lounge (www.butterflylounge.com), and I might post here from my hotel room from a TI 707 dialing into ivan.Harhan.ORG at 300 baud! (And yes, I have the same taste in women as in computers: I like them both BIG!) > surely SOMEBODY knows how to write a look-up table program to translate! Of course it's possible, it's just totally non-standard, and most importantly, UNIX generally expects the user to have the complete ASCII set available to him. The V7 tty driver has support for turning an uppercase-only tty like ASR33 into a terminal with both cases in software, but emulating full ASCII from the 5-bit TDD code seems like a bit of a stretch. > TDDs are more expensive, and do not have a 24 x 80 screen. > They typically have a single line display, and sometimes an > adding machine width printer. > > For what kind of applications would you consider that interface connected > to a timesharing system to be more usable than a personal computer, > or a 24 x 80 screen terminal? None. I didn't realise that TDDs were that bad, I thought that they were more or less normal terminals, that's why I asked. MS From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Dec 11 17:52:55 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts References: <200412111845.SAA09424@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <41BB8857.9000708@jetnet.ab.ca> Tom Jennings wrote: > > WOW! that's a good hack! No a good hack is *mechanical* Computer. Now somebody in England had develeoped a nice mechanical display device using rotating mirrors before WWII, and a method of displaying one TV scan-line at time that was projected for display. That was a neat design instead of CRT. Ben. From lists at microvax.org Sat Dec 11 18:28:28 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie lists) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: TTYs for the deaf Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > I will be celebrating New Year at Butterfly Lounge > (www.butterflylounge.com), > and I might post here from my hotel room from a TI 707 dialing into > ivan.Harhan.ORG at 300 baud! (And yes, I have the same taste in women > as in computers: I like them both BIG!) Michael, We don't care. alex/melt From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Dec 11 17:40:23 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: Grid 1520 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041211184023.0094ae10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I have a couple of Grids like that but I don't remember the exact model numbers. Only one of mine has the ICs inside the door. I'm pretty sure that they emulate a system disk (A: drive). Mine don't have floppy drives so the ROMs are the only way to boot one if it loses the CMOS settings. I've been wanting to pull the ROMs and try them in the other Grids and make copies if they work but never got around to it. Joe At 12:42 PM 12/11/04 -0500, you wrote: >Hi crew. Question about a Gridacase 1520. Is anyone familiar with >these laptops? This is a 286, really good shape. It won't boot, dead >as a doornail. The guy at the thrift shop told me it was working when >it was brought in the day before, now I see that two (or one) chips >are missing from under the flap in the top left right above the >keyboard. I figure they were lifted between dropoff and my buying it. > >Any ideas if these chips, which I think are application roms, would >prevent the thing from booting? If so, is there such a thing as a >replacement available from someone here or elsewhere? The thing must >have been the first Toughbook or something, and I'd love to see it >working. > >Thanks for any info anyone can share. > >(does anyone still need a gmail invite? I have lots. ) > >Brian Mahoney > From dmabry at mich.com Sat Dec 11 18:41:23 2004 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: Grid 1520 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041211184023.0094ae10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041211184023.0094ae10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <41BB93B3.3070803@mich.com> Pretty sure that the roms that work in one work in them all. I've interchanged them with many different models. Not ALL possibilities, to be sure, but there was only one ROMBUILD program that I know of. Joe R. wrote: > I have a couple of Grids like that but I don't remember the exact model > numbers. Only one of mine has the ICs inside the door. I'm pretty sure that > they emulate a system disk (A: drive). Mine don't have floppy drives so the > ROMs are the only way to boot one if it loses the CMOS settings. I've been > wanting to pull the ROMs and try them in the other Grids and make copies if > they work but never got around to it. > > Joe From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Dec 11 18:48:42 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: TTYs for the deaf In-Reply-To: <0412112307.AA05846@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0412112307.AA05846@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <32947.64.169.63.74.1102812522.squirrel@64.169.63.74> Fred wrote: > the ASR33 TTY is Bell 103 at 300 baud? Michael wrote: > That's what I've always thought, anyone who knows otherwise please correct > me. The ASR33 TTY does 110 baud. Maybe it can be regeared for other rates, but I'm reasonably certain that it won't work at 300 baud. Bell 103 uses FSK, so it will work at any baud rate up to 300 (offically) or 450 (unofficially; I'm not sure how well that really works). All of the full-duplex 1200 bps and faster dialup modem protocols starting with Bell 212 and V.22bis use PSK, QAM, or even fancier techniques which do synchrnous modulation, so the channel bit rate is firmly tied to the modulation rate. However, the channel bit rate is NOT equal to the baud rate, because there are more than two symbols, and thus more than one bit per baud. For example, Bell 212 and V.22bis are 1200 bps, but only 600 baud using two symbols. V.22bis is 2400 bps at 600 baud using four symbols. Eric From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sat Dec 11 18:56:29 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: TTYs for the deaf Message-ID: <0412120056.AA06060@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Eric Smith wrote: > Fred wrote: > > the ASR33 TTY is Bell 103 at 300 baud? > > Michael wrote: > > That's what I've always thought, anyone who knows otherwise please correct > > me. Dammit, I somehow managed to misread Fred as asking "the ASR33 TTY is Bell 103 at 110 baud?", hence my answer. MS From peterbrown10 at hotmail.com Sat Dec 11 19:24:54 2004 From: peterbrown10 at hotmail.com (Peter Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? Now women on list? Now worst computer related injury Message-ID: Hi Sellam and all, >I think my worst computer related injury is a recurring one: I keep >bumping my kneecaps on monitors that are sitting on the ground. I took an HP 9122D to the head once - kinda fell off a high shelf where I was working Blood, swearing and confusion but no stiches.... Anyone with one that involves stiching and / or an ER? Peter PS: for those of you who're worried, the drive was fine - built HP tough... From john at guntersville.net Sat Dec 11 20:42:43 2004 From: john at guntersville.net (John C. Ellingboe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: TTYs for the deaf References: <0412112004.AA05540@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <20041211140658.U11035@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <41BBB023.51B2B9A8@guntersville.net> Tom Jennings wrote: > > On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > > ASR-33's and their ilk are ASCII and 110 baud (43's do 300 > I think). > > The TTY-for-the-deaf tech is based upon older ITA2 (aka "baudot" > but it's not -- no teletype-like device EVER used Baudot's code, > it was for manual (finger) input) 5-bit code with two code tables > (aka cases) selected with FIGS and LTRS. They mostly run at 60 > wpm, aka 45.45 baud. > Teletype Corp. Models 14, 15, 19 and 26 for a few plus some by other companies used Baudot code. Some of those were interfaced to early micros for lack of a better/cheap console at the time. > Besides the speed issue, which requires good buffering or > per-character flow-control handshaking (not commonly done well, > and not possible on msoft OSs past DOS), you need a little state > machine for code table/case translation each direction, and then > about 1/2 the ASCII code set simply doesn't exist in ITA2, and > there are no control codes in common except CR, LF, bell and NUL. > Plus unless you re-wire them they are all half-duplex; pressing > a key prints locally. ASR33's are 20mA current loop, but the > older devices want 60mA, and 100 volts on the loop with a big > series resistor; the current risetime requirements make it so. From mapleleafman at gmail.com Sat Dec 11 22:02:32 2004 From: mapleleafman at gmail.com (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: Grid 1520 In-Reply-To: <41BB93B3.3070803@mich.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041211184023.0094ae10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <41BB93B3.3070803@mich.com> Message-ID: Maybe that's what's up with mine, since I am pretty sure it's lost the CMOS settings. I took the cover off today, astonishingly clean and new inside, but couldn't find the battery. The HD is 100 megs, which is pretty unusual from what I've seen. Couple more questions: There is the PS which takes a regular power cable and pops out with the push of a button. There is another outlet, much like a transformer outlet, which came with a cord. Was this for the external floppy? As far as the PS is concerned, I'm wondering if it got fried somehow with being plugged into the outlet but not in the laptop. Strange setup, really. You could hold the PS in your hand, plug it into the wall and then into the laptop. Can't believe that in the field it would be that easy to fry it, though. All in all it's a damn fine laptop, and this one looks as if it has never been used. It is spotless! Thanks for the info, crew. If anyone can add anything, feel free. From dmabry at mich.com Sat Dec 11 22:21:20 2004 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: Grid 1520 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20041211184023.0094ae10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <41BB93B3.3070803@mich.com> Message-ID: <41BBC740.9090902@mich.com> That series of computers had a battery that fit into the same space as your power supply. Your power supply was made to substitute for the battery, same contacts inside as the battery pack, but more convenient for those who preferred to use AC power. You could, if you wanted, use the power supply you have externally using a cable from it to the power connector on the back. As I recall, it was a typical barel-type connector and a straight through cable. In that configuration it would charge the battery if you had that plugged in. 100 MB hard drive does sound large for that vintage, but it was probably a standard 3.5" IDE drive inside and could be swapped with a larger one than the factory supplied. Not sure what you mean by "transformer outlet". Look on the side where the hard drive is, right, near the back. Is there a 25 pin D-connector, female? If so, that is for a floppy drive to connect up externally. I doubt that the PS could fry by being plugged into AC without being in the computer. But I can't say that I've ever tested that. You should be able to power it up with a simple DC power supply connected to that barel connector on the back. Isn't it labelled with voltage and current requirements? Brian Mahoney wrote: > Maybe that's what's up with mine, since I am pretty sure it's lost the > CMOS settings. I took the cover off today, astonishingly clean and new > inside, but couldn't find the battery. The HD is 100 megs, which is > pretty unusual from what I've seen. > Couple more questions: There is the PS which takes a regular power > cable and pops out with the push of a button. There is another outlet, > much like a transformer outlet, which came with a cord. Was this for > the external floppy? > As far as the PS is concerned, I'm wondering if it got fried somehow > with being plugged into the outlet but not in the laptop. Strange > setup, really. You could hold the PS in your hand, plug it into the > wall and then into the laptop. Can't believe that in the field it > would be that easy to fry it, though. > All in all it's a damn fine laptop, and this one looks as if it has > never been used. It is spotless! Thanks for the info, crew. If anyone > can add anything, feel free. > From Saquinn624 at aol.com Sun Dec 12 00:20:07 2004 From: Saquinn624 at aol.com (Saquinn624@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: Iomega ZIP drives Message-ID: They also made SCSI ZIPs - used on Macs and SGIs, etc. The parallel models used a proprietary SCSI over parallel protocol, at least on the early ones, and were slower than snails. I've never popped one open to see if it is possible to revert to SCSI, though (probably not). I think I heard that later models used an encapsulated IDE protocol. I'm not sure if it is still the case, but I think some of the old (2.2.x) Linux kernels had some documentation about the protocol. It could be possible to hack together a similar interface for floppies, though (encapsulate over parallel port) From tomj at wps.com Sun Dec 12 00:30:59 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: TTYs for the deaf In-Reply-To: <0412112307.AA05846@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0412112307.AA05846@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Of course it's possible, it's just totally non-standard, and most importantly, > UNIX generally expects the user to have the complete ASCII set available > to him. The V7 tty driver has support for turning an uppercase-only > tty like ASR33 into a terminal with both cases in software, but emulating > full ASCII from the 5-bit TDD code seems like a bit of a stretch. You could do two-character sequences... $a $b $c ... to get the rest of the ASCII set (ugh) Everyone's got their favorite tty to ascii converter, here's mine: http://wps.com/projects/Sources/model02.bas A PIC and a little hardware. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sun Dec 12 00:28:28 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: Iomega ZIP drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200412120631.BAA21993@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > They also made SCSI ZIPs - used on Macs and SGIs, etc. Mine is SCSI. Some of the later ones worked on both - you could plug them into either parallel port or SCSI port (using the same cable, even, if your SCSI is the old Mac DB25F SCSI) and they'd Just Work. Given, of course, appropriate software, which they supplied for a few mainstream OSes but as far as I know didn't give any help for those wanting to write it for others...as usual. :-? /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From tomj at wps.com Sun Dec 12 00:38:20 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: TTYs for the deaf In-Reply-To: <41BBB023.51B2B9A8@guntersville.net> References: <0412112004.AA05540@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <20041211140658.U11035@shell.lmi.net> <41BBB023.51B2B9A8@guntersville.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, John C. Ellingboe wrote: > Teletype Corp. Models 14, 15, 19 and 26 for a few plus some by other > companies used Baudot code. Some of those were interfaced to early > micros for lack of a better/cheap console at the time. It's often called "baudot", even the ARRL handbook calls it that, but it's actually ITA-2. Baudot has accented characters and "No." and a few oddballs, no format effectors (eg. CR, LF, etc). I never could figure out how "baudot" became the vernacular for ita2 tty code. http://wps.com/projects/codes/index.html From glen.slick at gmail.com Sun Dec 12 00:39:31 2004 From: glen.slick at gmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041211083146.05b71b40@pc> References: <200412102258.OAA11621@clulw009.amd.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041211083146.05b71b40@pc> Message-ID: <1e1fc3e904121122392b8e66ac@mail.gmail.com> SMSC makes a USB floppy disk controller chip. Internally it contains a 765 floppy disk controller controlled by an 8051 microcontroller. >From the datasheet it's not clear whether or not the hardware and standard firmware support 5.25" floppy drives. http://www.smsc.com/main/catalog/usb97cfdc2_01.html http://www.smsc.com/main/datasheets/97cfdc2_01.pdf Power would not have to come from the USB bus. A USB device can have its own power supply. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Dec 12 06:30:18 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: Iomega ZIP drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1102854618.16089.3.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-12-12 at 01:20 -0500, Saquinn624@aol.com wrote: > It could be possible to hack together a similar interface for floppies, > though (encapsulate over parallel port) I think I kicked off a similar discussion a while back as I wanted to be able to hook a floppy drive up to the parallel port to read / write raw data and do all the processing in software (so I could read alien format disks). Problem was that the parallel port is way too slow for the data stream needed for the floppy - so yes it could be done, but you need a reasonably intelligent interface which buffers data at the track level though and oversamples the data stream on reading. cheers Jules From charlesb at otcgaming.net Sun Dec 12 06:35:30 2004 From: charlesb at otcgaming.net (charlesb@otcgaming.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: Iomega ZIP drives References: Message-ID: <002501c4e047$1231f420$0c650750@gamemachine> actually I have a scsi ZIP drive and it is possible to run it on straght scsi.. I do here. basically you just need the scsi card and a standard external scsi cable to fit. the only propriety bit was the stupid little dongle that you had attached to either end of the cable. i've run it fine here on standard scsi using a normal scsi pc-card. the other thing, watch out for the head crashing problem. as it tends to knacker the disks.... if u start getting a clunking sound then look up on google. there was a site which had a fix for it, but i forget what it was. regards charles ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 6:20 AM Subject: Re: Iomega ZIP drives > They also made SCSI ZIPs - used on Macs and SGIs, etc. The parallel models > used a proprietary SCSI over parallel protocol, at least on the early > ones, and > were slower than snails. I've never popped one open to see if it is > possible > to revert to SCSI, though (probably not). I think I heard that later > models > used an encapsulated IDE protocol. I'm not sure if it is still the case, > but I > think some of the old (2.2.x) Linux kernels had some documentation about > the > protocol. > > It could be possible to hack together a similar interface for floppies, > though (encapsulate over parallel port) > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.809 / Virus Database: 551 - Release Date: 09/12/2004 From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Dec 12 08:26:06 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: Iomega ZIP drives In-Reply-To: <002501c4e047$1231f420$0c650750@gamemachine> References: <002501c4e047$1231f420$0c650750@gamemachine> Message-ID: <749d2a1c4d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <002501c4e047$1231f420$0c650750@gamemachine> wrote: > the other thing, watch out for the head crashing problem. as it tends to > knacker the disks.... if u start getting a clunking sound then look up on > google. there was a site which had a fix for it, but i forget what it was. Ohh yes. The Zip drive Click-o'-Death. My, that brings back memories. Painful, painful memories... I've got a Zip Plus that needs a new PSU, but I have no intention of spending any money on it. The media is far too expensive, especially in comparison to CD-Rs and DVD-Rs. That and the drives aren't particularly reliable. Optical media (especially DVD) tends to be a fair bit more robust. CDs are at the low end - a scratch on the label side will convert any CD into a coaster. DVDs don't tend to suffer from that problem to the same degree (CDs have the data layer on top of a layer of plastic; DVDs have two layers of plastic on the outside with the data layer sandwiched in the middle). Punched paper or mylar tape would probably last a lot longer than any CD though :) Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... We all have failures. The question is, what do we do with them? From dmabry at mich.com Sun Dec 12 08:37:24 2004 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: Iomega ZIP drives In-Reply-To: <002501c4e047$1231f420$0c650750@gamemachine> References: <002501c4e047$1231f420$0c650750@gamemachine> Message-ID: <41BC57A4.5060201@mich.com> charlesb@otcgaming.net wrote: > actually I have a scsi ZIP drive > > and it is possible to run it on straght scsi.. I do here. > > > basically you just need the scsi card and a standard external scsi cable > to fit. > > the only propriety bit was the stupid little dongle that you had > attached to either end of the cable. i've run it fine here on standard > scsi using a normal scsi pc-card. > > the other thing, watch out for the head crashing problem. as it tends to > knacker the disks.... if u start getting a clunking sound then look up > on google. there was a site which had a fix for it, but i forget what it > was. > > regards > charles The site you are thinking of is Gibson Research, I suspect. http://grc.com/tip/clickdeath.htm Is the "stupid little dongle" you are talking about the thing that changed a standard 50-pin high density scsi connector to a 25-pin D connector? That is a somewhat standard kind of a dongle. You can buy cables that do the same translation. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Dec 12 09:17:25 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? Now women on list? Now worst computerrelated injury In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041212101725.007d7340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:24 AM 12/12/04 +0000, you wrote: >Hi Sellam and all, > >>I think my worst computer related injury is a recurring one: I keep >>bumping my kneecaps on monitors that are sitting on the ground. > >I took an HP 9122D to the head once - kinda fell off a high shelf where I >was working > >Blood, swearing and confusion but no stiches.... > >Anyone with one that involves stiching and / or an ER? The closest that I've come was a doctor's visit for a tetnus shot. I was in a very cluttered junk yard and stepped backward and tripped. I fell backward and put my hands out to catch myself. However there was a plate on the ground with a #10 screw/stud about 1 1/2" long sticking out of it and the stud went all the way through the palm of my hand. I'm curently regrowing a toe nail. The original fell off after having one of the large steel baskets of scrap fall on it. Joe From wacarder at usit.net Sun Dec 12 09:52:08 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? Now women on list? Now worst computerrelated injury In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041212101725.007d7340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > >Hi Sellam and all, > > > >>I think my worst computer related injury is a recurring one: I keep > >>bumping my kneecaps on monitors that are sitting on the ground. > > > >I took an HP 9122D to the head once - kinda fell off a high > shelf where I > >was working > > > >Blood, swearing and confusion but no stiches.... > > > >Anyone with one that involves stiching and / or an ER? > > The closest that I've come was a doctor's visit for a tetnus shot. I was > in a very cluttered junk yard and stepped backward and tripped. I fell > backward and put my hands out to catch myself. However there was > a plate on > the ground with a #10 screw/stud about 1 1/2" long sticking out of it and > the stud went all the way through the palm of my hand. I'm curently > regrowing a toe nail. The original fell off after having one of the large > steel baskets of scrap fall on it. > > Joe I was racking some RK05 drives on my PDP-11 and was picking up 11/34 and 11/35 CPU BA11 boxes and carrying them from the floor or rack to my work bench. After doing this off and on for a couple of days on a weekend, my back hurt all during the week and was stiff. Then we had a big software delivery at work and I sat slouching in my chair at my office working for 16 hours straight on the last Friday in October. The next day I could not get out of bed and had excruciating pain in my lower back and my right leg. I was in bed for 3 weeks due to a bulging disk in the same area where some mild arthritis was located and it had inflamed the nerve roots of my sciatic nerve. Now I recruit my 21 year old son to lift anything over 100 pounds. Ashley From shoppa_classiccmp at trailing-edge.com Sun Dec 12 09:45:30 2004 From: shoppa_classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (shoppa_classiccmp@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: Free DEC/mini stuff in Washington DC area Message-ID: <41BC679A.nailJR71N65KS@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Still available, for free, you must pick up in the Washington DC suburbs: 1. "Double" BA23 with all associated rack-mount hardware and double- high bulkhead panel in the back. 2. Several Trimm Industries 5.25" high rack-mount SCSI enclosures, styling is very similar to BA23's, and takes DEC skid plates. 3. Several dozen assorted Unibus and Q-bus boards. 4. Fujitsu M2444 Pertec interface 1600/6250 bpi 9-track drive. 5. Several hundred pounds of DEC VAX/VMS, Alpha/VMS, and Ultrix condists. Mostly early/mid/late 90's, some from the past 4 years too, and a few VAX and Alpha VMS installation CD's. Many dupes, especially of the mid-90's VAX/VMS stuff. I will let you sort through the piles if you don't want to take dupes, but I will not let you take "just the new stuff", for every post-2000 condist I'm gonna make sure you take away at least ten mid-90's ones! And as always, if you show up for any of this stuff, I will try to make you take away some other things too :-). First-come, first-served. None of the items are availble for shipping, I just do not have the time to box them up in any reasonable manner. All of it probably would fit in a station wagon or larger car. (The only thing really bulky is the M2444, which is a rather deep, high, and wide rectangle, but even that will fit in the trunk of a large car.) If interested, E-mail me at "shoppa@trailing-edge.com". Pick-up times on weekday evenings and weekends are available. Tim. (shoppa@trailing-edge.com) From vcf at siconic.com Sun Dec 12 11:15:22 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:18 2005 Subject: Female listmembers (was Re: Got a HP 2648. Now what?) In-Reply-To: <004601c4dfcd$4ccb5420$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, John Allain wrote: > > Also, I don't remember seeing any posts by Allison in the > > .folklore newsgroups in quite a while, either. > > People change jobs, shifting their priorities. > It wouldn't hurt if people here practiced up on their common > courtesies, though. I'm pretty sure at least one of the reasons that Allison left us is because for a time it seemed no one could or was interested in staying on topic. The CC list used to be like going to a fight and having a hockey game break out. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sun Dec 12 11:26:19 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? Now women on list? Now worst computer related injury In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Dec 2004, Peter Brown wrote: > Hi Sellam and all, > > >I think my worst computer related injury is a recurring one: I keep > >bumping my kneecaps on monitors that are sitting on the ground. > > I took an HP 9122D to the head once - kinda fell off a high shelf where I > was working > > Blood, swearing and confusion but no stiches.... > > Anyone with one that involves stiching and / or an ER? > > Peter > > PS: for those of you who're worried, the drive was fine - built HP tough... Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. I was lifting a couple boxes off of the top of a taller-than-me stack. There was an old Apple Disk ][ drive (with the heavy metal enclosure) sitting on top of the top box. I knew this. I told myself, "Don't tip the boxes". So what did I do? I forgot what I just told myself and tipped the boxes as I lifted them off. All of a sudden, WHAM! Blunt force trauma to the head. The corner of the hard drive enclosure walloped the top of my skull. I had a nice corner-shaped impression on my head. A bit of blood, but no stitches required. Duh. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From shoppa_classiccmp at trailing-edge.com Sun Dec 12 11:31:11 2004 From: shoppa_classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (shoppa_classiccmp@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: Female listmembers (was Re: Got a HP 2648. Now what?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41BC805F.nailL7911HI1M@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> > > Also, I don't remember seeing any posts by Allison in the > > .folklore newsgroups in quite a while, either. She shows up comp.os.cpm semi-regularly. Tim. From shoppa_classiccmp at trailing-edge.com Sun Dec 12 11:34:34 2004 From: shoppa_classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (shoppa_classiccmp@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: Free DEC/mini stuff in Washington DC area Message-ID: <41BC812A.nailL8R11B0J2@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> >> for free, you must pick up > No shipping? Right, I just don't have the time. I'm starting to think that by insisting that no money can change hands that as a result there are fewer interested. Single vintage chips go for multi-hundred dollars on E-bay and get talked about here a lot, then I go and try to give away a quarter-ton of hardware and software for free and get ignored :-). Tim. From mapleleafman at gmail.com Sun Dec 12 11:39:13 2004 From: mapleleafman at gmail.com (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: Grid 1520 In-Reply-To: <41BBC740.9090902@mich.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041211184023.0094ae10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <41BB93B3.3070803@mich.com> <41BBC740.9090902@mich.com> Message-ID: Thanks Dave! I figured it out with your help. The PS won't work when in the battery slot, but it will when it's a brick hooked up with the second power cord, the one with the barrel connectors on each end. However there is a bad connection inside the PS and this only works with pressure on one side, even then it is sporadic so I have to test continuity in the cord or take the ps apart and look for something there. Anyway, it boots, thank goodness, not to a prompt but until it finds a hard drive error which means I have to configure it. F1 doesn't seem to work so maybe the cmos is blank and it can't see the keyboard, which isn't set out like a normal board. It has the basic 640K plus about 1400K ram . The 100 meg drive is unusual and I'm dying to see what's on it. The thing that astounds me is that this laptop is probably nearly 16 years old and it is far cleaner inside than anything I use day to day. It must have been in a lab or never taken out of its case. The keyboard is shiny new and the drive area is spotless, still with the colored stickers in place. Pristine, really. Thanks again and I will post an update once I get the PS problem worked out. Writing to the roms seemed very interesting, I am curious as to how much info they would be able to hold. Did they have the capacity of a floppy? There is a modem inside which would be able to take care of data tranfer as well as the ports on the back. Tandy used roms in some of their models, didn't they? I mean to store applications. Acorn too, I think. All the best, BM On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 23:21:20 -0500, Dave Mabry wrote: > That series of computers had a battery that fit into the same space as > your power supply. Your power supply was made to substitute for the > battery, same contacts inside as the battery pack, but more convenient > for those who preferred to use AC power. You could, if you wanted, use > the power supply you have externally using a cable from it to the power > connector on the back. As I recall, it was a typical barel-type > connector and a straight through cable. In that configuration it would > charge the battery if you had that plugged in. > > 100 MB hard drive does sound large for that vintage, but it was probably > a standard 3.5" IDE drive inside and could be swapped with a larger one > than the factory supplied. > > Not sure what you mean by "transformer outlet". Look on the side where > the hard drive is, right, near the back. Is there a 25 pin D-connector, > female? If so, that is for a floppy drive to connect up externally. > > I doubt that the PS could fry by being plugged into AC without being in > the computer. But I can't say that I've ever tested that. You should > be able to power it up with a simple DC power supply connected to that > barel connector on the back. Isn't it labelled with voltage and current > requirements? > > > > Brian Mahoney wrote: > > > Maybe that's what's up with mine, since I am pretty sure it's lost the > > CMOS settings. I took the cover off today, astonishingly clean and new > > inside, but couldn't find the battery. The HD is 100 megs, which is > > pretty unusual from what I've seen. > > Couple more questions: There is the PS which takes a regular power > > cable and pops out with the push of a button. There is another outlet, > > much like a transformer outlet, which came with a cord. Was this for > > the external floppy? > > As far as the PS is concerned, I'm wondering if it got fried somehow > > with being plugged into the outlet but not in the laptop. Strange > > setup, really. You could hold the PS in your hand, plug it into the > > wall and then into the laptop. Can't believe that in the field it > > would be that easy to fry it, though. > > All in all it's a damn fine laptop, and this one looks as if it has > > never been used. It is spotless! Thanks for the info, crew. If anyone > > can add anything, feel free. > > > > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Dec 12 11:58:01 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: Grid 1520 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20041211184023.0094ae10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <41BB93B3.3070803@mich.com> <41BBC740.9090902@mich.com> Message-ID: <17043e1c4d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message Brian Mahoney wrote: > Tandy used roms in some > of their models, didn't they? I mean to store applications. Acorn too, > I think. Sounds like you're referring to the "5th Column ROM". All the Acorn machines I've seen have RISC OS in ROM anyway (No HDD? No problem!), though. The 5th Column ROM socket was - IIRC - fitted to all the Acorn A-series machines up to the A5000. I don't think there was much that ever used it. The Acorn A4 laptop had a ROM fitted to the 5th-column slot that included copies of the battery manager (BatMgr), I2C and Portable RMA modules. Speaking of which, I've got a pair of A4s here. One works fine and doesn't look too bad, the other is a bit dirty and needs a new floppy drive (strangely enough, the drive will work after the machine has been running for an hour or so). Swapping the drive between machines caused the fault to move with the drive :-/ Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Take care of the pennies and the Inland Revenue will take care of the rest. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Dec 12 12:10:00 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: CLEAN computers Re: Grid 1520 In-Reply-To: References: <41BBC740.9090902@mich.com> <3.0.6.32.20041211184023.0094ae10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <41BB93B3.3070803@mich.com> <41BBC740.9090902@mich.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041212131000.0079b100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:39 PM 12/12/04 -0500, you wrote: > The thing that astounds me >is that this laptop is probably nearly 16 years old and it is far >cleaner inside than anything I use day to day. It must have been in a >lab or never taken out of its case. The keyboard is shiny new and the >drive area is spotless, still with the colored stickers in place. >Pristine, really. I was offered a complete HP-150 system last year but had to go get it. It turns out that is was in the Florida Regional Crime Lab. I went and picked it up and it was THE cleanest computer that I've ever seen. It looked like it had just come out of the factory and was spotless inside and out. Not even any stickers on it. It turns out that it had spent it's life inside a lab hooked to a gas chromatograph or some such were NO contamination could be tolerated. It was real shame to bring it home and stuff it into the outbuilding with all the other computers. Anybody else run into situations like this? Joe From dmabry at mich.com Sun Dec 12 12:11:36 2004 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: Grid 1520 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20041211184023.0094ae10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <41BB93B3.3070803@mich.com> <41BBC740.9090902@mich.com> Message-ID: <41BC89D8.7000201@mich.com> Ok Brian. You are making good progress. Once again, this is from the cobwebs, but that vintage of computer didn't usually have any built-in CMOS-setting firmware. You had to run it from a boot floppy. Don't know, but maybe some of the more generic BIOS-setting utilities would work. What I mentioned was that the "F" key, not F1, would force a floppy drive boot. The ROMS would hold whatever file size that they are. How's that for double-speak? If the ROM is a 27010 (1Mbit) it will hold roughly 128K bytes of files. How many slots are there under the door? I have some of the earlier GRiDcase, the 8086-based. They have four slots that are under the door and four internal. So you could put up to 1MB of ROMS into that version using 27010's. On some models of Gridcase there were internal ROM slots as well. I didn't use the 286-based versions much, so I don't remember. There might be internal ROM slots under the plastic that covers around the keyboard. You have to remove the display subsystem first and to do that you have to remove the cover behind the display. There are two screws under plastic plugs on the back panel. Then the back cover slides back about 1/4 inch and lifts up. The display has to be closed to do that. Then the display can lift out. Be careful of the place that the display pivots in. That part of the casting is easily broken. Put some white lub in that when you reassemble it, if you take it apart. Anyway, after the display is out, then, and only then, can you take the bezel around the keyboard off. It snaps straight up. No screws. Then you can get to the lithium battery used for CMOS backup. Also, if there are internal ROM slots I think you will find the just above the keyboard, or it might be a plugin card under the back cover of the machine. Anyway, good luck. It is a very unique and cool system. Brian Mahoney wrote: > Thanks Dave! I figured it out with your help. The PS won't work when > in the battery slot, but it will when it's a brick hooked up with the > second power cord, the one with the barrel connectors on each end. > However there is a bad connection inside the PS and this only works > with pressure on one side, even then it is sporadic so I have to test > continuity in the cord or take the ps apart and look for something > there. > Anyway, it boots, thank goodness, not to a prompt but until it finds a > hard drive error which means I have to configure it. F1 doesn't seem > to work so maybe the cmos is blank and it can't see the keyboard, > which isn't set out like a normal board. > It has the basic 640K plus about 1400K ram . The 100 meg drive is > unusual and I'm dying to see what's on it. The thing that astounds me > is that this laptop is probably nearly 16 years old and it is far > cleaner inside than anything I use day to day. It must have been in a > lab or never taken out of its case. The keyboard is shiny new and the > drive area is spotless, still with the colored stickers in place. > Pristine, really. > Thanks again and I will post an update once I get the PS problem worked out. > Writing to the roms seemed very interesting, I am curious as to how > much info they would be able to hold. Did they have the capacity of a > floppy? There is a modem inside which would be able to take care of > data tranfer as well as the ports on the back. Tandy used roms in some > of their models, didn't they? I mean to store applications. Acorn too, > I think. > > All the best, > BM From mcesari at comcast.net Sun Dec 12 12:18:59 2004 From: mcesari at comcast.net (Mike Cesari) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: Free DEC/mini stuff in Washington DC area In-Reply-To: <41BC812A.nailL8R11B0J2@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> References: <41BC812A.nailL8R11B0J2@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <4B150A62-4C6A-11D9-98A5-000A956B167C@comcast.net> On Dec 12, 2004, at 10:34 AM, shoppa_classiccmp@trailing-edge.com wrote: >>> for free, you must pick up >> No shipping? > > Right, I just don't have the time. > > I'm starting to think that by insisting that no money can change > hands that as a result there are fewer interested. Single vintage > chips go for multi-hundred dollars on E-bay and get talked about > here a lot, then I go and try to give away a quarter-ton of hardware > and software for free and get ignored :-). > > Tim. > I'd be willing to do a 300 - 400 mile round trip for free stuff, but ~3000 mile round trips? In December? Only for something like a KS10... :-) Mike From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Dec 12 12:47:07 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: Free DEC/mini stuff in Washington DC area References: <41BC812A.nailL8R11B0J2@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <41BC922B.3040502@jetnet.ab.ca> shoppa_classiccmp@trailing-edge.com wrote: > I'm starting to think that by insisting that no money can change > hands that as a result there are fewer interested. Single vintage > chips go for multi-hundred dollars on E-bay and get talked about > here a lot, then I go and try to give away a quarter-ton of hardware > and software for free and get ignored :-). But ebay has shipping... I don't drive and have no truck and only room for 1 rack in my apartment. :( Ben. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 12 13:33:06 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: Grid 1520 In-Reply-To: Philip Pemberton "Re: Grid 1520" (Dec 12, 17:58) References: <3.0.6.32.20041211184023.0094ae10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <41BB93B3.3070803@mich.com> <41BBC740.9090902@mich.com> <17043e1c4d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <10412121933.ZM6550@mindy.dunnington.plus.com> On Dec 12 2004, 17:58, Philip Pemberton wrote: > In message > Brian Mahoney wrote: > > > Tandy used roms in some > > of their models, didn't they? I mean to store applications. Acorn too, > > I think. Yes, the BBC Micro (and 8-bit successors) couyld use "Sideways ROMs", ie ROMs mapped into the same address space as BASIC, and switched in and out by the O.S. Archimedes (32-bit) machines and successors could have ROMs on expansion cards (eg an Ethernet card might contain the card drivers and TCP/IP stack). > Sounds like you're referring to the "5th Column ROM". All the Acorn machines > I've seen have RISC OS in ROM anyway (No HDD? No problem!), though. > The 5th Column ROM socket was - IIRC - fitted to all the Acorn A-series > machines up to the A5000. I don't think there was much that ever used it. There's no "5th Column ROM socket". Even the term is a invention of someone outside Acorn. What they mean are simply Extension ROMs on expansion cards, which contain relocatable OS modules which get copied into RAM when the machine is booted. (It has to be, most ROMs are only 8 bits wide, but the memory bus is 32 bits. Obviously you could use four ROMs, but I never heard of anyone doing so, although the spec does allow for it.) Almost all Ethernet cards, several SCSI cards, scanner cards, and several others, use them. The only one I know of that could contain application software that wasn't tightly bound to some interface on the same card, was Computer Concepts card for Inter, which was a bit of a flop. It was only useful for the BBC Emulator, and the code still had to be copied to RAM to be accessed. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sun Dec 12 13:40:48 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: CLEAN computers Re: Grid 1520 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041212131000.0079b100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000001c4e082$7c224ed0$6e7ba8c0@p933> I got an IBM AT this summer that was as pristine a machine as I've ever seen. It looked like it had just come out of the original packaging. In fact, that was the only thing absent to make this a perfect score. There wasn't a single blemish or even a spot of dust on the case or monitor. The insides were as clean as a whistle and the original battery and, even harder to believe, the original CMI hard drive were still installed and working. It even had the IBM drive protect card in the disk drive and the original IBM keys dangling from the lock. Of course it came with all of the original manuals and software. I received an Apple /// and an Apple //e in similar but slightly more used shape earlier in the summer and a couple of PowerBooks in their original boxes last month, so I guess it has been a good year! Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Joe R. Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: CLEAN computers Re: Grid 1520 At 12:39 PM 12/12/04 -0500, you wrote: > The thing that astounds me >is that this laptop is probably nearly 16 years old and it is far >cleaner inside than anything I use day to day. It must have been in a >lab or never taken out of its case. The keyboard is shiny new and the >drive area is spotless, still with the colored stickers in place. >Pristine, really. I was offered a complete HP-150 system last year but had to go get it. It turns out that is was in the Florida Regional Crime Lab. I went and picked it up and it was THE cleanest computer that I've ever seen. It looked like it had just come out of the factory and was spotless inside and out. Not even any stickers on it. It turns out that it had spent it's life inside a lab hooked to a gas chromatograph or some such were NO contamination could be tolerated. It was real shame to bring it home and stuff it into the outbuilding with all the other computers. Anybody else run into situations like this? Joe From shoppa_classiccmp at trailing-edge.com Sun Dec 12 13:45:51 2004 From: shoppa_classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (shoppa_classiccmp@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: Free DEC/mini stuff in Washington DC area In-Reply-To: <41BC922B.3040502@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <41BC812A.nailL8R11B0J2@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <41BC922B.3040502@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <41BC9FEF.nailN101R3ULN@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> > But ebay has shipping... Of rather variable quality. Packing up delicate stuff and having it survive to the other end requires patience and effort. My last experience was less than wonderful: bought a Tek 465B scope in beautiful condition for a dime. (Well, OK, lotsa dimes, but it was a good value). Seller put in a cardboard box with some styrofoam peanuts. It arrived with just about every front-panel control busted or bent. Which was a just crying shame, as the unit had a calibration just a month or two ago. I bought a not-so-working-but-with- all-the-knobs 465 and spent several evenings replacing the busted BNC's and knobs on the front panel. I'm proud of the work, but it just broke my heart to see the unit arrive with obviously bad shipping. Even though I had paid for insurance, the seller didn't buy insurance, and wasn't willing to do anything to help me other than say "tough luck". I'd much rather that my surplus stuff find a good home locally than deal with all the packing. Tim. From pcw at mesanet.com Sun Dec 12 13:50:20 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: 3 Mil Spec Novas? Message-ID: But maybe ony the front panels... http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=500266&convertTo=USD And heres a nice picture of the front panel: http://www.simulogics.com/nostalgia/Rolm/Rolm02_01.jpg Peter Wallace From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sun Dec 12 13:57:23 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN Message-ID: <000101c4e084$cc4b2c40$6e7ba8c0@p933> CNN has a magazine style show called NEXT@CNN that has a gaming theme this week. Included is, of course, a discussion of vintage gaming and what the kids today think of the old stuff. It's funny to see the old Atari X-Wing run side-by-side with the modern version. About 20 minutes into the show is a "bump" for the 30th anniversary of the Altair computer featuring a machine from my collection including a shot from this year's VCF! Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From melt at microvax.org Sun Dec 12 14:01:54 2004 From: melt at microvax.org (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: 3 Mil Spec Novas? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Dec 2004, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > But maybe ony the front panels... > > http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=500266&convertTo=USD > > And heres a nice picture of the front panel: > > http://www.simulogics.com/nostalgia/Rolm/Rolm02_01.jpg Look at the last pic in the series - the actual Novas are those small black boxes on the bottom of the rack. They're some of these: http://www.simulogics.com/museum/R1602_1.JPG and they look fully cabled, with front panels. Fantastic stuff, want on SO badly! However, shipping to the UK would kill me :( alex/melt From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Dec 12 14:13:08 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: TTYs for the deaf In-Reply-To: <41BBB023.51B2B9A8@guntersville.net> References: <0412112004.AA05540@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <20041211140658.U11035@shell.lmi.net> <41BBB023.51B2B9A8@guntersville.net> Message-ID: <32977.64.169.63.74.1102882388.squirrel@64.169.63.74> Tom Jennings wrote: > The TTY-for-the-deaf tech is based upon older ITA2 (aka "baudot" > but it's not -- no teletype-like device EVER used Baudot's code, John C. Ellingboe wrote: > Teletype Corp. Models 14, 15, 19 and 26 for a few plus some by other > companies used Baudot code. Some of those were interfaced to early > micros for lack of a better/cheap console at the time. AFAIK, the model 28 and 32 use the same five-level code as the 15 and 19. The model 32 is the five-level version of the better-known model 33. Tom's point is that contrary to popular belief, the five-level Teletype code is NOT actually the Baudot code. His web page on the history of character codes explains this in great detail with references: http://www.wps.com/projects/codes/index.html Years ago my friend Jim Philips interfaced a model 28RO to his semi-homebrew 6502-based TLB computer. He wired up some sort of circuit to turn off the motor when the line when idle (spacing) for more than a minute or so. I wrote a driver for the APEX operating system, which normally used ASCII. The driver performed the necessary code conversion. The tricky part was what to do about printing characters that had no five-level equivalent. I decided to use overstrikes (somewhat like APL in principle). The driver kept track of whether any characters on the current print line needed overstrikes, and if so, would print one pass, carriage return, second pass, then another CR and a line feed. I think that's the oldest piece of code I've written for which I still have source. I doubt that it's of use to anyone, but there are two versions of it on my web site: http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/software/ttyhan/ I'm still hoping to recover my program from the same era to format eight-inch disks on a 1771-based controller. Eric From vax9000 at gmail.com Sun Dec 12 15:12:05 2004 From: vax9000 at gmail.com (9000 VAX) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: Free DEC/mini stuff in Washington DC area In-Reply-To: <41BC9FEF.nailN101R3ULN@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> References: <41BC812A.nailL8R11B0J2@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <41BC922B.3040502@jetnet.ab.ca> <41BC9FEF.nailN101R3ULN@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: Too bad that DC is too far away from Ohio. vax, 9000 On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 14:45:51 -0500, shoppa_classiccmp@trailing-edge.com wrote: > > But ebay has shipping... > > Of rather variable quality. Packing up delicate stuff and > having it survive to the other end requires patience and effort. > > My last experience was less than wonderful: bought a Tek > 465B scope in beautiful condition for a dime. (Well, OK, > lotsa dimes, but it was a good value). Seller put in > a cardboard box with some styrofoam peanuts. It arrived > with just about every front-panel control busted or bent. > Which was a just crying shame, as the unit had a calibration > just a month or two ago. I bought a not-so-working-but-with- > all-the-knobs 465 and spent several evenings replacing the > busted BNC's and knobs on the front panel. I'm proud of the > work, but it just broke my heart to see the unit arrive with > obviously bad shipping. Even though I had paid for insurance, > the seller didn't buy insurance, and wasn't willing to do > anything to help me other than say "tough luck". > > I'd much rather that my surplus stuff find a good home locally > than deal with all the packing. > > Tim. > From merkabah at sbcglobal.net Sat Dec 11 04:34:46 2004 From: merkabah at sbcglobal.net (merkabah) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: IBM 5110 Message-ID: <000601c4df6d$0a0b7990$6401a8c0@carrol6eteof8r> Would you be interested in selling your computer. It would be great for displaying to the kids in our school district. Thanks Daniel From fabtagon at gmx.de Sat Dec 11 10:58:47 2004 From: fabtagon at gmx.de (Fabian =?ISO-8859-1?Q?H=E4nsel?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: hardware fault on SGI Indigo? References: <41A4B73A.7020105@gmx.de> <10412041350.ZM3119@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <41BB2747.30509@gmx.de> Pete Turnbull wrote: >That looks like a faulty drive. Does it spin up? fx is trying to read > Yes, it does. Somebody sent a hint to me to use a tool on the install cds called ide.IP12, which indeed displayed the drive to be faulty. I'm trying to get another one. >>The hd is in the bottom drive bay. After my enter keystroke in line 4 >>(drive#=1) the led flashes for a short time and at the same time (or >>maybe some millisecconds later) the error message appears. >> > >As you probably know, the SCSI ID is automatically determined by the >bay you put the drive in. At least, it is if you use standard sleds, >which have a connection from the ID pins on the drive, via the sled >connector, to the backplane. > My drive has a 50 pin scsi, a 4 pin power supply and a 10 pin cable (I did not know what it is used to) - that connects to those ID pins, doesn't it? A new drive does not have to have such ID pins, as long as I can set the scsi id with jumpers, is that right? Thanks, Fabian From fabtagon at gmx.de Sat Dec 11 11:06:18 2004 From: fabtagon at gmx.de (Fabian =?ISO-8859-1?Q?H=E4nsel?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: Irix-Install on SGI Indigo: RAM failure, ASQ=0x80 References: <41ADE077.6080302@gmx.de> <1102106985.3558.5.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <41BB290A.4020204@gmx.de> Jules Richardson wrote: >>I get sashIP12 and fx.IP12 to load from cd, but using fx with that hd fails: >> >> SGI Version 5.3 IP12 Oct 31, 1994 >> fx: "device-name"= (dksc) >> fx: ctrl#= (0) >> fx: drive#= (1) >> ... opening dksc(0,1,) >> dks0d1s10: Drive not ready: RAM failure, ASQ=0x80. >> fx: warning: Failed to open dksc(0,1,10) >> SGI Version 5.3 IP12 Oct 31, 1994 >> > >I read that as being the RAM on the hard disk itself (cache memory; any >SCSI drive's going to have a few KB) being faulty; i.e. it doesn't mean >the RAM in the Indigo. > enlightening ;-) I did not really concern this option as RAM sounded to much like system main memory to me. >Try a different drive. I can't remember what the Indigo uses now - I >believe it's standard 50 pin SCSI for the drives, just the sled that the > yes. >drive sits in uses a strange connector. Probably someone on the list has >a spare drive, or someone on a local newsgroup. I've got a feeling both > I'll try to find one in the old-and-to-be-sold-'store' of the local university (or maybe two, to install NetBSD 2.0 on the second one). >of our Indigos have 450MB drives, so they don't need anything >particularly big. > I'll take a big one to install nearly all packages available on the cds, as the cd drive isn't my own one. Thanks, Fabian From fabtagon at gmx.de Sat Dec 11 11:12:28 2004 From: fabtagon at gmx.de (Fabian =?ISO-8859-1?Q?H=E4nsel?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: hardware fault on SGI Indigo? References: <41A4B73A.7020105@gmx.de> <10412041350.ZM3119@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <41BB2747.30509@gmx.de> Message-ID: <41BB2A7C.4050700@gmx.de> Fabian H?nsel wrote: > My drive has a 50 pin scsi, a 4 pin power supply and a 10 pin cable (I > did not know what it is used to) - that connects to those ID pins, > doesn't it? A new drive does not have to have such ID pins, as long as > I can set the scsi id with jumpers, is that right? Ops, it's not a 10 pin, but a 6 pin connector with actually 4 cables attached. Best regards, Fabian From sales at acme-sales.net Sat Dec 11 12:52:18 2004 From: sales at acme-sales.net (ACME Enterprises) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: Anyone need 27128s? Message-ID: <021501c4dfb2$9805b4a0$ce4f0945@acme> I just acquired a large pile of 27128s and 27C128s -- clearly pulled from sockets, and as of yet untested. I thought I'd offer them to the list first. Ten for $10 plus postage. If no takers, I'll clean and verify 'em and put 'em up on the Web site for $3 each. Please contact me offlist. Later -- Glen http://www.acme-sales.net From trixter at oldskool.org Sat Dec 11 14:44:44 2004 From: trixter at oldskool.org (Jim Leonard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? Message-ID: <41BB5C3C.1040909@oldskool.org> I have a few IBM model 5150s that I use to code entries for programming competitions and I'd like to try to speed up the hard disk in any way possible. (If you're curious what my last project was, check out http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=13722 to download and try it out -- it displays full-screen full-motion color video with sync'd sound -- yes, on a 4.77MHz 8088, no fooling). I've been looking for any way to speed up the hard disk subsystem (currently WD1002 with Seagate ST225) and I simply can't get more than 130KB/s out of the darn thing... so: - Is there any MFM/RLL 8-bit ISA controller that can read disks at their full 1:1 interleave? If so, where can I get one? 3:1 is the best I've been able to get using the above MFM combination. I haven't tried RLL yet because I don't have any RLL controllers. - If not, do such things exist as 8-bit ISA IDE controllers? I have lots of "little" IDE drives (320MB and 540MB models) that I could hook up. I attempted not one but TWO 8-bit Plus hardcards (both 40MB models), thinking that the embedded drive/controller combo would be better, but my experience with Plus Hardcards (even the 16-bit 120MB versions) is that, after about 8 years, the damn EEPROM forgets everything and it doesn't boot (no BIOS, get a 1701 "controller error"). So I couldn't get either of them to work. (As a result I have 4 Plus hardcards that I am *this close* to throwing away, unless someone has an idea of reviving them :-) Any advice? Or should I just try to find an EMS board and cache my data instead? (Speaking of which, does anyone have a LIM EMS board for sale/trade? Can't seem to find one of those either.) -- Jim Leonard (trixter@oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ From trixter at oldskool.org Sat Dec 11 14:48:34 2004 From: trixter at oldskool.org (Jim Leonard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs In-Reply-To: References: <41B2A661.1060108@oldskool.org> Message-ID: <41BB5D22.3020501@oldskool.org> Ron Hudson wrote: > Has anyone seen this: it was a 40x25 character based dungeon crawl type > game, a lot like > Gauntlet. Your icon was a happyface with a <^>v to indicate direction. 4 > players each get > a set of keys (4 people crowded around 1 keyboard). I don't think it was > called gauntlet... Reminds me of Snipes ( http://www.mobygames.com/game/sheet/p,2/gameId,15288/ ) I'll email you the game off-list. -- Jim Leonard (trixter@oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ From shoppa_classiccmp at trailing-edge.com Sun Dec 12 09:33:53 2004 From: shoppa_classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (shoppa_classiccmp@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: Free DEC/mini stuff in Washington DC area Message-ID: <41BC64E1.nailJFY1QLKP4@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Still available, for free, you must pick up in the Washington DC suburbs: 1. "Double" BA23 with all associated rack-mount hardware and double- high bulkhead panel in the back. 2. Several Trimm Industries 5.25" high rack-mount SCSI enclosures, styling is very similar to BA23's, and takes DEC skid plates. 3. Several dozen assorted Unibus and Q-bus boards. 4. Fujitsu M2444 Pertec interface 1600/6250 bpi 9-track drive. 5. Several hundred pounds of DEC VAX/VMS, Alpha/VMS, and Ultrix condists. Mostly early/mid/late 90's, some from the past 4 years too, and a few VAX and Alpha VMS installation CD's. Many dupes, especially of the mid-90's VAX/VMS stuff. I will let you sort through the piles if you don't want to take dupes, but I will not let you take "just the new stuff", for every post-2000 condist I'm gonna make sure you take away at least ten mid-90's ones! And as always, if you show up for any of this stuff, I will try to make you take away some other things too :-). First-come, first-served. None of the items are availble for shipping, I just do not have the time to box them up in any reasonable manner. All of it probably would fit in a station wagon or larger car. (The only thing really bulky is the M2444, which is a rather deep, high, and wide rectangle, but even that will fit in the trunk of a large car.) If interested, E-mail me at "shoppa@trailing-edge.com". Pick-up times on weekday evenings and weekends are available. Tim. (shoppa@trailing-edge.com) From vcf at siconic.com Sun Dec 12 15:32:09 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN In-Reply-To: <000101c4e084$cc4b2c40$6e7ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Dec 2004, Erik S. Klein wrote: > About 20 minutes into the show is a "bump" for the 30th anniversary of > the Altair computer featuring a machine from my collection including a > shot from this year's VCF! No one ever asked my permission to use a shot from the VCF. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Dec 12 15:47:52 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN In-Reply-To: References: <000101c4e084$cc4b2c40$6e7ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <33228.64.169.63.74.1102888072.squirrel@64.169.63.74> Sellam wrote: > No one ever asked my permission to use a shot from the VCF. Are they required to? From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Sun Dec 12 16:09:59 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: Free DEC/mini stuff in Washington DC area In-Reply-To: References: <41BC812A.nailL8R11B0J2@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <41BC922B.3040502@jetnet.ab.ca> <41BC9FEF.nailN101R3ULN@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 16:12:05 -0500, 9000 VAX wrote: > Too bad that DC is too far away from Ohio. Not necessarily... I went there last summer to pick up a free VAX 11/725. -ethan From spectre at floodgap.com Sun Dec 12 16:51:48 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs In-Reply-To: <41BB5D22.3020501@oldskool.org> from Jim Leonard at "Dec 11, 4 02:48:34 pm" Message-ID: <200412122251.OAA106796@floodgap.com> > > Has anyone seen this: it was a 40x25 character based dungeon crawl type > > game, a lot like > > Gauntlet. Your icon was a happyface with a <^>v to indicate direction. 4 > > players each get > > a set of keys (4 people crowded around 1 keyboard). I don't think it was > > called gauntlet... > > Reminds me of Snipes ( http://www.mobygames.com/game/sheet/p,2/gameId,15288/ ) > I'll email you the game off-list. Possibly Kroz by Apogee? -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Die, v.: To stop sinning suddenly. -- Elbert Hubbard ----------------------- From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sun Dec 12 16:39:52 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: CLEAN computers Re: Grid 1520 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041212131000.0079b100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <41BBC740.9090902@mich.com> <3.0.6.32.20041212131000.0079b100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200412121739.57729.kenziem@sympatico.ca> On Sunday 12 December 2004 13:10, Joe R. wrote: > At 12:39 PM 12/12/04 -0500, you wrote: > inside and out. Not even any stickers on it. It turns out that it had > spent it's life inside a lab hooked to a gas chromatograph or some such > were NO contamination could be tolerated. It was real shame to bring it > home and stuff it into the outbuilding with all the other computers. > Anybody else run into situations like this? I had a machine that came out of the office at a McDonald's restaurant and the dust bunnies that were inside were so greasy that it took sereral passes through the dishwasher to get it clean. The hard drive still smells of fries. -- Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 Machines to trade http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/trade.html Open Source Weekend http://www.osw.ca From vcf at siconic.com Sun Dec 12 16:41:17 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN In-Reply-To: <33228.64.169.63.74.1102888072.squirrel@64.169.63.74> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Dec 2004, Eric Smith wrote: > Sellam wrote: > > No one ever asked my permission to use a shot from the VCF. > > Are they required to? I don't know, but if they are I'm going to make a real big deal of it, being that it's CNN. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sun Dec 12 16:59:55 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c4e09e$4c49dc20$6e7ba8c0@p933> Well, considering I took the picture and it was of my machine AND you couldn't tell that it's a VCF picture without my admitting to it I'm not sure you'd be able to make TOO big a deal, but I am sure it would be fun either way! ;) Which reminds me, I have to finish my VCF7 page sometime soon. I'm only about halfway through descriptions on the 100+ shots I took! :( Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 2:41 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: NEXT@CNN On Sun, 12 Dec 2004, Eric Smith wrote: > Sellam wrote: > > No one ever asked my permission to use a shot from the VCF. > > Are they required to? I don't know, but if they are I'm going to make a real big deal of it, being that it's CNN. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From Ladyelec at aol.com Sun Dec 12 17:26:07 2004 From: Ladyelec at aol.com (Ladyelec@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: What the Lady has in her collection Message-ID: <1e4.3052d1b6.2eee2d8f@aol.com> I am on digest and a bit behind. I am a journeyman electrician due to health reasons had to close my business of 16 years. I started collecting because I was trying to find a way to make money that corresponds with my body which only gives me about 4 to 5 good working hours a day and a friend of mine on the net suggested ebay seller. Good idea, I can combine my love of garage sale shopping and junk shopping and make some cash to boot. What started my vintage computer collection was one day I found a Compaq Lunchbox computer and had it sitting on the floor when some of my many nephews (hubby is one of 24, 19 currently living) came by and wanted to know what it was. I told them a computer and they said no--it's a sewing machine. I set it up and showed them how it worked. They were fascinated by the monochrome monitor! LOL It's like explaining that if it were not for Pong and Atari they wouldn't have Playstation and X-Box. I am also a crafter so due to limited space I collect the Ladylike dainty computers that I can pick up. I currently have: Compaq II and an III Portable Tandy 1000 HX Sr. Partner Panasonic Portable Timex Sinclair 1000 in box with marked Styrofoam IBM PS/1 Apple IIe and an SE Zenith Data System Laptop Atari and the works all on original in boxes with Styrofoam. Commodore HP -87 Digi-Comp II that I have not even had the time to mess with yet. A small yet growing collection. I have more fun on "THE HUNT" than I anything else. Second most fun is showing the youngsters where computers have come from. I also have started a "Tech" signature collection. I have: Patrick Norton signed PIC Michael Garfield the High Tech Texan signed PIC Michael Nadeau signed book I need to see if I can get the good looking TV star, magnificent,hairy, intelligent, smooth, ever so popular International Man of Intrigue and Danger , Sellam Ismail to sign a book or picture or something for me. If I had not seen him on TechTV I would have never found this list. I am a firm believer if you want to have an interest in something--READ! Educate yourself! I have learned a lot from ya'll and even enjoy off-topic stuff cuz ya'll can get to be down right a hoot at times. I think I have been on the list for close to a year now. I am old and don't remember well. I am going to find me a dadburn Apple 1 if it kills me. I know there are only a few but one of them has MY name on it! Just a beginner, Back to lurking, Isa From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 12 17:33:53 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: hardware fault on SGI Indigo? In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fabian_H=E4nsel_=3Cfabtagon=40gmx=2Ede=3E _______=22Re=3A_hardware_fault_on_SGI_Indigo=3F=22_=28Dec_11=2C_17=3A58?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=29?= References: <41A4B73A.7020105@gmx.de> <10412041350.ZM3119@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <41BB2747.30509@gmx.de> Message-ID: <10412122333.ZM7345@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 11 2004, 17:58, Fabian H?nsel wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > >As you probably know, the SCSI ID is automatically determined by the > >bay you put the drive in. At least, it is if you use standard sleds, > >which have a connection from the ID pins on the drive, via the sled > >connector, to the backplane. > > > My drive has a 50 pin scsi, a 4 pin power supply and a 10 pin cable (I > did not know what it is used to) - that connects to those ID pins, > doesn't it? A new drive does not have to have such ID pins, as long as I > can set the scsi id with jumpers, is that right? Yes, that's right, just remember what you set it to, because (obviously!) it will no longer be automatically set by the slot. Don't use ID 0, because that's the controller. By convention, the boot drive is ID 1, a CDROM is 5 or 6, a tape is usually 4, but you needn't stick to those. IRIX will work out what type of device (disk, removable disk, CDROM, tape) is at each ID. You can change the drive ID that's used for booting, by changing a couple of PROM variables. On my Indy here (sorry, haven't got an Indigo handy that I can power up, but it should be very similar) they are (these viewed from IRIX rather than from the PROM): SystemPartition=scsi(0)disk(1)rdisk(0)partition(8) OSLoadPartition=scsi(0)disk(1)rdisk(0)partition(0) NB they are case-sensitive. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From vcf at siconic.com Sun Dec 12 17:46:00 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN In-Reply-To: <000201c4e09e$4c49dc20$6e7ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Dec 2004, Erik S. Klein wrote: > Well, considering I took the picture and it was of my machine AND you > couldn't tell that it's a VCF picture without my admitting to it I'm not > sure you'd be able to make TOO big a deal, but I am sure it would be fun > either way! ;) Well, based on what I know about this sort of issue (and I might be wrong) if it's used in the context of news coverage then of course there's no issue. But if they are using this as part of their program then that's a copyright issue. I suppose it could be considered "fair use" in this case, but then the courtesy of asking for permission would apply in my book. I'm going to ask someone who knows. I still have to see the piece to see exactly how it was used. I presumably recorded it for later viewing. Like I said, if it wasn't CNN I wouldn't care ;) > Which reminds me, I have to finish my VCF7 page sometime soon. I'm only > about halfway through descriptions on the 100+ shots I took! :( Me too :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 12 17:43:11 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: Irix-Install on SGI Indigo: RAM failure, ASQ=0x80 In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fabian_H=E4nsel_=3Cfabtagon=40gmx=2Ede=3E _______=22Re=3A_Irix-Install_on_SGI_Indigo=3A_RAM_failure=2C_ASQ=3D0x80?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22_=28Dec_11=2C_18=3A06=29?= References: <41ADE077.6080302@gmx.de> <1102106985.3558.5.camel@weka.localdomain> <41BB290A.4020204@gmx.de> Message-ID: <10412122343.ZM7355@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 11 2004, 18:06, Fabian H?nsel wrote: > Jules Richardson wrote: > >of our Indigos have 450MB drives, so they don't need anything > >particularly big. > > > I'll take a big one to install nearly all packages available on the cds, > as the cd drive isn't my own one. I have 1GB drives in most of my Indigos, but they NFS-mount /usr/local with lots of locally-compiled stuff, and /usr/people with home directories, from another machine. BTW, if you're looking for packages, there are still a few sites with packages for 5.3 (is this an R3000 Indigo?) and I have quite a few that I've compiled here. You can even get the IDO (Irix Development Option, ie the compilers) for free from SGI's website -- and it's significantly better than gcc. You can also still get all the patches from SGI (there's a LOT -- I know because I just re-installed all the Y2K and security patches for one of my machines). But remember that for an R3000 you need things compiled -mips1, not -mips2 (which some 5.3 systems default to) or mips3/4 (later versions of IRIX). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From allain at panix.com Sun Dec 12 18:09:53 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: Classics in Dec-2004 Byte References: <200412122251.OAA106796@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <007601c4e0a8$12d39440$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> There's a two page spread in Byte showing the (eBay)(cough) prices of some really old commputing things, this months issue. A Univac reel tape was about the newest thing there. Sorta interesting, if choked with commerciality. John A. From tosteve at yahoo.com Sun Dec 12 18:38:21 2004 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: Wanted: TI-99/4A Solid State thermal printer - PHP1900 Message-ID: <20041213003821.70802.qmail@web40906.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, Anyone have one of they are willing to trade or part with? Thanks- Steve. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Dec 12 19:54:41 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: hardware fault on SGI Indigo? In-Reply-To: <41BB2A7C.4050700@gmx.de> References: <41A4B73A.7020105@gmx.de> <10412041350.ZM3119@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <41BB2747.30509@gmx.de> <41BB2A7C.4050700@gmx.de> Message-ID: <41BCF661.9050006@mdrconsult.com> Fabian H?nsel wrote: > Fabian H?nsel wrote: > >> My drive has a 50 pin scsi, a 4 pin power supply and a 10 pin cable (I >> did not know what it is used to) - that connects to those ID pins, >> doesn't it? A new drive does not have to have such ID pins, as long as >> I can set the scsi id with jumpers, is that right? > > > Ops, it's not a 10 pin, but a 6 pin connector with actually 4 cables > attached. That's the usual ID 1-2-4 jumpers, then. On most narrow drives the jumper pairs share ground, hence the single ground wire on your ID cable. *Usually*, if the drive has ID jumpers at the "back" alongside the 50-pin connector and power connector, the bottom row are the ground pins. Shouldn't hurt anything if you get it upside down, except it will only work on ID 2 (ID 0 won't because it's the controller on an Indigo, IIRC). Doc From ggs at shiresoft.com Sun Dec 12 19:57:46 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: KM11 clone Message-ID: <1102903066.5976.118.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> I've been working on creating a clone of DEC's maintenance panel (KM11) for some time now. I intended it to be used as my "hello world" board to get familiar with EagleCAD and the board fab process. On Friday my first boards arrived from the fab house. I spent this weekend building up 2 boards and both worked perfectly the first time. It was so cool to be able to single step the microcode in an 11/40! It's up on my web site (http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/boards/index.html) for those that want to see what it looks like. Sometime this week I'll take a picture of the 11/40 with 2 KM11's hanging out of it! My first batch of boards/parts has already been spoken for. But for any who are interested, I'll place another order for parts/boards for delivery sometime in January. Each board will come with complete schematics, parts list and assembly instructions. I will also have collected drawings for the overlays and instructions on use for the various processors (11/20, 11/05, 11/40, 11/45 and 11/70). I'm pricing as follows: "Bare" Board $75 "kit" (includes all the parts) $125 assembled and tested $250 (I really don't want to) -- TTFN - Guy From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Sun Dec 12 20:00:18 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs In-Reply-To: <41BB5D22.3020501@oldskool.org> References: <41B2A661.1060108@oldskool.org> <41BB5D22.3020501@oldskool.org> Message-ID: On Dec 11, 2004, at 12:48 PM, Jim Leonard wrote: > Ron Hudson wrote: > >> Has anyone seen this: it was a 40x25 character based dungeon crawl >> type game, a lot like >> Gauntlet. Your icon was a happyface with a <^>v to indicate >> direction. 4 players each get >> a set of keys (4 people crowded around 1 keyboard). I don't think it >> was called gauntlet... > > Reminds me of Snipes ( > http://www.mobygames.com/game/sheet/p,2/gameId,15288/ ) I have Snipes, but that's not it. Snipes runs in full 80x2 full glory. Snipes is also mostly one color, this thing was colorful. > > I'll email you the game off-list. Thanks. :^) (although I probably already have that version since I think I got it from your site.) > -- > Jim Leonard (trixter@oldskool.org) > http://www.oldskool.org/ > Want to help an ambitious games project? > http://www.mobygames.com/ > Or check out some trippy MindCandy at > http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ > From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Sun Dec 12 20:01:42 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs In-Reply-To: <200412122251.OAA106796@floodgap.com> References: <200412122251.OAA106796@floodgap.com> Message-ID: On Dec 12, 2004, at 2:51 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote: >>> Has anyone seen this: it was a 40x25 character based dungeon crawl >>> type >>> game, a lot like >>> Gauntlet. Your icon was a happyface with a <^>v to indicate >>> direction. 4 >>> players each get >>> a set of keys (4 people crowded around 1 keyboard). I don't think it >>> was >>> called gauntlet... >> >> Reminds me of Snipes ( >> http://www.mobygames.com/game/sheet/p,2/gameId,15288/ ) >> I'll email you the game off-list. > > Possibly Kroz by Apogee? I don't think it was by any of the professional types- looked home-spun to me. Apogee was the Commander Keen stuff right? > > -- > ---------------------------------- personal: > http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * > ckaiser@floodgap.com > -- Die, v.: To stop sinning suddenly. -- Elbert Hubbard > ----------------------- > From spectre at floodgap.com Sun Dec 12 20:36:16 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs In-Reply-To: from Ron Hudson at "Dec 12, 4 06:01:42 pm" Message-ID: <200412130236.SAA52474@floodgap.com> > > > > Has anyone seen this: it was a 40x25 character based dungeon crawl > > > > type game, a lot like Gauntlet. Your icon was a happyface with a <^>v > > > > to indicate direction. 4 players each get a set of keys (4 people > > > > crowded around 1 keyboard). I don't think it was called gauntlet... > > > Reminds me of Snipes ( > > > http://www.mobygames.com/game/sheet/p,2/gameId,15288/ ) > > > I'll email you the game off-list. > > Possibly Kroz by Apogee? > I don't think it was by any of the professional types- looked > home-spun to me. Apogee was the Commander Keen stuff right? Eventually, yes, though they were only distributors for that one (id Software actually wrote the Commander Keen series; check out their exorcism of their past games, including Wolf and CK, in DOOM II's secret levels). Kroz was one of their earliest releases and was written by Scott Miller, the founder of Apogee. Here's an underdogs blurb on it (note that this is a warez site if this is a point of concern for you): http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?id=2231 -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- There is always one more imbecile than you counted on. --------------------- From wmaddox at pacbell.net Sun Dec 12 20:29:25 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: Model 129 Keypunch on eBay with 30 minutes to to! Message-ID: <41BCFE85.2040202@pacbell.net> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5145489194&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT eBay item 5145489194 (Ends Dec-12-04 19:00:00 PST) - IBM 129 keypunch verifier vintage card punch From vcf at siconic.com Sun Dec 12 20:31:25 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: Classics in Dec-2004 Byte In-Reply-To: <007601c4e0a8$12d39440$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Dec 2004, John Allain wrote: > There's a two page spread in Byte showing the > (eBay)(cough) prices of some really old commputing > things, this months issue. I thought they stopped printing Byte years ago? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Sun Dec 12 20:41:32 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:19 2005 Subject: KM11 clone In-Reply-To: <1102903066.5976.118.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> References: <1102903066.5976.118.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 17:57:46 -0800, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > I've been working on creating a clone of DEC's maintenance panel (KM11) > for some time now... > (http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/boards/index.html) Looks nice. > Sometime this week I'll take a picture of the 11/40 with 2 KM11's hanging out of it! Pardon my 11/40 ignorance, but I didn't know there are _two_ KM11 ports on one... what does each one indicate? > My first batch of boards/parts has already been spoken for. But for any > who are interested, I'll place another order for parts/boards for > delivery sometime in January. OK... I'm up for one bare board. > I will also have collected drawings for the overlays and > instructions on use for the various processors (11/20, 11/05, 11/40, > 11/45 and 11/70). Perfect (I have a seriously hacked apart 11/20 to reassemble (I didn't do it), an 11/05, and a couple of 11/70s...) how about the RX01 and the RK11C? Anyone have instructions and overlays? Was there anything else the KM11 was used with? -ethan From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Dec 12 20:43:00 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: CLEAN computers Re: Grid 1520 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041212131000.0079b100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <41BBC740.9090902@mich.com> <3.0.6.32.20041211184023.0094ae10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <41BB93B3.3070803@mich.com> <41BBC740.9090902@mich.com> <3.0.6.32.20041212131000.0079b100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <41BD01B4.6090306@mdrconsult.com> Joe R. wrote: > At 12:39 PM 12/12/04 -0500, you wrote: > >>The thing that astounds me >>is that this laptop is probably nearly 16 years old and it is far >>cleaner inside than anything I use day to day. It must have been in a >>lab or never taken out of its case. The keyboard is shiny new and the >>drive area is spotless, still with the colored stickers in place. >>Pristine, really. > > > I was offered a complete HP-150 system last year but had to go get it. > It turns out that is was in the Florida Regional Crime Lab. I went and > picked it up and it was THE cleanest computer that I've ever seen. It > looked like it had just come out of the factory and was spotless inside and > out. Not even any stickers on it. It turns out that it had spent it's life > inside a lab hooked to a gas chromatograph or some such were NO > contamination could be tolerated. It was real shame to bring it home and > stuff it into the outbuilding with all the other computers. Anybody else > run into situations like this? I got a PDP-11 (well, a pair of them) that had been decommissioned from a med supply warehouse that day. Pristine clean, inside and out, and they still had the card-separators on the rear edge of the Qbus cards. They told me that if Compaq hadn't refused to renew their maintenance contract, they wouldn't have replaced the machines. I didn't know about Mentec then, and apparently neither did their field tech. Doc From allain at panix.com Sun Dec 12 20:49:18 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: Classics in Dec-2004 ( Wired <<<< ) References: <200412122251.OAA106796@floodgap.com> <007601c4e0a8$12d39440$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <07b301c4e0be$581b2ac0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> There's a two page spread in Wired showing the (eBay)(cough) prices of some really old commputing things, this months issue. A Univac reel tape was about the newest thing there. Sorta interesting, if choked with commerciality. John A. s/Byte/Wired/ (christmas shopping hangover) From news at computercollector.com Sun Dec 12 21:00:35 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: Classics in Dec-2004 ( Wired <<<< ) In-Reply-To: <07b301c4e0be$581b2ac0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20041213030035.58128.qmail@web52807.mail.yahoo.com> It's here: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/start.html?pg=6 --- John Allain wrote: > There's a two page spread in Wired showing the > (eBay)(cough) prices of some really old commputing > things, this months issue. > > A Univac reel tape was about the newest thing there. > Sorta interesting, if choked with commerciality. > > John A. > > s/Byte/Wired/ > (christmas shopping hangover) > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 600 readers and counting! From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Dec 12 20:58:22 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: Classics in Dec-2004 ( Wired <<<< ) References: <200412122251.OAA106796@floodgap.com> <007601c4e0a8$12d39440$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <07b301c4e0be$581b2ac0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <41BD054E.6010203@jetnet.ab.ca> John Allain wrote: > There's a two page spread in Wired showing the > (eBay)(cough) prices of some really old commputing > things, this months issue. I guess a BYTE now count's as OLD computing things. Boy do I miss the old Computer mags since they showed people using and upgrading machines not gawkinig about how great the computer case flashes in neon colors or how flashy a splash screen is as people often do today. Ben. From zmerch at 30below.com Sun Dec 12 21:17:44 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: Free DEC/mini stuff in Washington DC area In-Reply-To: References: <41BC9FEF.nailN101R3ULN@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <41BC812A.nailL8R11B0J2@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <41BC922B.3040502@jetnet.ab.ca> <41BC9FEF.nailN101R3ULN@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041212221312.00ae78c8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that 9000 VAX may have mentioned these words: >Too bad that DC is too far away from Ohio. And depending on where you are in Ohio, I'm from 400 to 700 *more* miles away from you! Take I-75 north until everyone says 'eh?' ;-) I have truck & trailer, but that's a *long* trip, especially when you take in the 6" of snow we already received, and the 6+" we're expected to receive in the next 24 hours... ... Oh, and work has to fit in there somewhere... ;-) It may not be that people aren't interested, but they're just not physically capable of accessing it. Just my $0.00000000000000002, as that's what it's worth... Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | A new truth in advertising slogan sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | for MicroSoft: "We're not the oxy... zmerch@30below.com | ...in oxymoron!" From r_a_feldman at hotmail.com Sun Dec 12 22:13:03 2004 From: r_a_feldman at hotmail.com (Robert Feldman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC Message-ID: I've been wading through a lot of digests, catching up with the list, so this post is a bit late in the thread. One thing to watch out with on recent PC's is that the BIOS might not support more than one floppy drive. I found that out on a SOYO motherboard I got last year. The BIOS can handle 360KB and 1.2 MB 5 1/4" drives, as well as 3.5" drives, but you can have only one drive attached at a time. Bob From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Dec 12 22:17:51 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: HP DMI info sought Message-ID: <001f01c4e0ca$b66deed0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Anyone have a pdf of either of the following? Dynamic Mapping System Installation 13305-90001 or 12976-90005 I can't find that on bitsavers. I have the CE handbook cheatsheats, but I'm looking for something a little more expansive. Thanks in advance! Jay West From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Dec 12 22:32:35 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: Free DEC/mini stuff in Washington DC area In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041212221312.00ae78c8@mail.30below.com> References: <41BC9FEF.nailN101R3ULN@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <41BC812A.nailL8R11B0J2@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <41BC922B.3040502@jetnet.ab.ca> <41BC9FEF.nailN101R3ULN@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20041212221312.00ae78c8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: >It may not be that people aren't interested, but they're just not >physically capable of accessing it. This would definitely be the case! It's sounding like those of us that are interested, are way to far away (in my case 3000+ miles away). Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From zmerch at 30below.com Sun Dec 12 23:32:54 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: Older floppies, newer hardware... Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041213002613.039380d8@mail.30below.com> All this talk about getting older drives to work on newer hardware got me thinking about a totally different track on how to get this done (not to mention the previous subject was referencing a 5 foot, 3 inch floppy drive... ;-) ) There are VAXen that have SCSI bridgeboards to control 3.5" 1.44Meg floppy drives via the SCSI bus - how "controllable" are those, WRT different drives, data rates & low level programmability? I have one, but other than "it gives my VAX a floppy drive" I know very little about them. (I know I'd been thinking of getting another one so I could use 1.44Meg drives on a CoCo system under OS-9 equipped with a SCSI board... but have yet to get around to it.) Also, would those bridgeboards support 2 drives? Just an "out of box" thought... Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | A new truth in advertising slogan sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | for MicroSoft: "We're not the oxy... zmerch@30below.com | ...in oxymoron!" From nico at farumdata.dk Sun Dec 12 23:56:17 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: Older floppies, newer hardware... References: <5.1.0.14.2.20041213002613.039380d8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <002401c4e0d8$76f54600$2101a8c0@finans> From: "Roger Merchberger" > All this talk about getting older drives to work on newer hardware got me > thinking about a totally different track on how to get this done > There are VAXen that have SCSI bridgeboards t > Also, would those bridgeboards support 2 drives? > (1) From the days of my EMS days (distribution for Scandinavia) I have some SMS adapters left. The -512 is an 8 bit SCSI adapter, which connects to the -7250, which in turn controls up to 4 floppies, from 3" to 8". I have a few boxes with 5 drives (8" DSDD, 5.25" 48 tpi, 5.25" 96tpi, 3.5" 720K and 3.5" 1.44M), which consequently has 2x 7250. It could read literally hundres of formats and write a few hundred. Not just as mirror-image, but also formatted the right way. One could therefore copy e.g. an AS-400 8" disk to a 3.5" Sytos backup. The software was called Octopus (DOS only (PC, MS, DR, ....), and could also handle SCSI-1 drives. Very capable software. The problem today, is that the source is not available, but on the other hand, how many new floppy formats have arrived since 1992 or so? (2) Another way could be using the MicroSolutions Compaticard IV, but then you still have to decode track layouts, directory structure, data formats, etc. Nico From tomj at wps.com Mon Dec 13 02:52:01 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Dec 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Sellam wrote: > > > No one ever asked my permission to use a shot from the VCF. > > > > Are they required to? > > I don't know, but if they are I'm going to make a real big deal of it, > being that it's CNN. It's a copyrighted work! $$$! Scumbags. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Dec 13 02:54:52 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: Classics in Dec-2004 ( Wired <<<< ) In-Reply-To: <41BD054E.6010203@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <200412122251.OAA106796@floodgap.com> <41BD054E.6010203@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <5020901c4d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <41BD054E.6010203@jetnet.ab.ca> ben franchuk wrote: > I guess a BYTE now count's as OLD computing things. > Boy do I miss the old Computer mags since they showed > people using and upgrading machines not gawkinig about > how great the computer case flashes in neon colors > or how flashy a splash screen is as people often do today. Nnnngggghh.... Don't remind me. PC Plus magazine used to be pretty good, then when the current editor took over, he immediately tore up everything the last guy did. The programming stuff has been near enough removed, replaced with "Remove spyware with insert-name-of-expensive-crapware-here" and "Casemodding for ID-ten-Ts"... Then again.. most PC rags are crap anyway these days. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Captain, Permission to hook up blender attachments to Mr Spock From tomj at wps.com Mon Dec 13 03:00:30 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Dec 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: I think you're being awfully generous to a monstrous profit-making corporation. While it might be hard to enforce, you have copyright to your works. > Well, based on what I know about this sort of issue (and I might be wrong) > if it's used in the context of news coverage then of course there's no > issue. Not true. Besides the fact that "news" is more or less entertainment these days, they still need permission to use it. If their budget is $0 then they wouldn't use it. Since they already DID use it, you can readily make up a reasonable value, say $500, for the use of the photo. Consider they sell ad time in the 100K$/min to $1M/min on both sides of your photo. This ain't 1964 and that wasn't Walter F-ing Cronkite, instead some drone/lackey making their owners money with your work. I bet you can find someone who sells stock images, footage, photo library to that industry to get a sense of how it works and what you practical recourse is. From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Mon Dec 13 04:43:42 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: 5-1/4" drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: <41B9BB43.16693.2898F356@localhost> References: <6d.3a39e75c.2eea9f8f@aol.com> <41B9BB43.16693.2898F356@localhost> Message-ID: <1102934623.2570.10.camel@fortran> On Fri, 2004-12-10 at 15:05 +0100, Hans Franke wrote: > > Every BIOS I know still supports 5 1/4 - even 360s > and 720s. And Windoze dose for shure. Some COMPAQ BIOS pretend to, but don't. I learned that the TEDIOUS way. -- Tore S Bekkedal From melamy at earthlink.net Mon Dec 13 05:21:19 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC Message-ID: <10023882.1102936879692.JavaMail.root@louie.psp.pas.earthlink.net> the one floppy deal is not really a bios issue, it is a hardware issue. As long as there are two drive select lines coming from the hardware, then the mb can supprt two drives even if there is not bios support. My ASUS P4 mb only supports one drive and I suspect that there is only one drive select. Bios code is meant to support the hardware that is present. At least that is the way is has been for 23 years... -----Original Message----- From: Robert Feldman Sent: Dec 12, 2004 11:13 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC I've been wading through a lot of digests, catching up with the list, so this post is a bit late in the thread. One thing to watch out with on recent PC's is that the BIOS might not support more than one floppy drive. I found that out on a SOYO motherboard I got last year. The BIOS can handle 360KB and 1.2 MB 5 1/4" drives, as well as 3.5" drives, but you can have only one drive attached at a time. Bob From charlesb at otcgaming.net Mon Dec 13 05:43:51 2004 From: charlesb at otcgaming.net (charlesb@otcgaming.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: Iomega ZIP drives References: <002501c4e047$1231f420$0c650750@gamemachine> <41BC57A4.5060201@mich.com> Message-ID: <001301c4e109$05971840$0500a8c0@gamemachine> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Mabry" To: ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 2:37 PM Subject: Re: Iomega ZIP drives . > The site you are thinking of is Gibson Research, I suspect. > > http://grc.com/tip/clickdeath.htm > > Is the "stupid little dongle" you are talking about the thing that changed > a standard 50-pin high density scsi connector to a 25-pin D connector? > That is a somewhat standard kind of a dongle. You can buy cables that do > the same translation. yea that's the one dave, couldnt think of it off hand. but yea that was what I meant and was the easiest way for me to describe it. :D regards charles --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.809 / Virus Database: 551 - Release Date: 09/12/2004 From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Dec 13 06:07:20 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: Older floppies, newer hardware... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041213002613.039380d8@mail.30below.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20041213002613.039380d8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <1102939640.17369.15.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-12-13 at 00:32 -0500, Roger Merchberger wrote: > All this talk about getting older drives to work on newer hardware got me > thinking about a totally different track on how to get this done (not to > mention the previous subject was referencing a 5 foot, 3 inch floppy > drive... ;-) ) > > There are VAXen that have SCSI bridgeboards to control 3.5" 1.44Meg floppy > drives via the SCSI bus - how "controllable" are those, WRT different > drives, data rates & low level programmability? I have one, but other than > "it gives my VAX a floppy drive" I know very little about them. I've been playing around with Torch Manta board which do exactly the same thing; they'll run up to 4 drives of mixed types (plus I have the relevant protocol spec). They're also to swap the function of some of the interface pins around in software too so that they'll work with a few oddball drives. They confuse the Linux low-level SCSI drivers a little as they show up as a fixed device with 4 LUNs, rather than a removeable device and so Linux expects to be able to read the first block from each LUN at startup. After all sorts of timeouts it eventually boots though :) The Mantas at least conform to the CCS; I'd like to get some of the other bridge boards around to work with Linux (e.g. Adaptec and OMTI SCSI-ST506) but they predate the CCS and so don't support some of the basic stuff expected by the Linux drivers (such as inquiry). You may find the VAX boards are the same. (I've been looking for a non-Adaptec SCSI HBA for the PC for a while so I can hack the driver to work with these boards - the Adaptec HBA in my PC also runs all the normal drives, so I don't fancy messing with it!) Of course I remember asking on this list as to whether the modulation used for floppies was a standard, and it appears not - MFM done by one manufacturer's FDC chip isn't necessarily the same as another's. Which means such a board *still* won't work with all formats even if the media's supported and it uses FM or MFM modulation. The only way to cope with that is to do all the processing in software (hence the reason I started asking about parallel ports and the like a few months back!) cheers Jules From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon Dec 13 06:19:17 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: Older floppies, newer hardware... In-Reply-To: <1102939640.17369.15.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20041213002613.039380d8@mail.30below.com> <1102939640.17369.15.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200412131223.HAA06524@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> There are VAXen that have SCSI bridgeboards to control 3.5" 1.44Meg >> floppy drives via the SCSI bus - [...] > I've been playing around with Torch Manta board which do exactly the > same thing; they'll run up to 4 drives of mixed types (plus I have > the relevant protocol spec). Kicking around somewhere, I have a 3?" SCSI floppy drive. I keep it because (a) it's my only SCSI floppy (unless you count zip disks as floppies) and (b) it's the only SCSI device I have that shows up as a disk drive but has sectors smaller than 512 bytes. (I forget its sector size - probably either 256 or 128 bytes. I remember that it was a power of two less than 512, and <=64 would be implausibly small.) I also have a disk drive that has 1024-byte sectors, which I keep around because it's my only disk with sectors *over* 512 bytes. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Dec 13 08:07:50 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041213080608.05ec6180@pc> At 03:00 AM 12/13/2004, Tom Jennings wrote: >> Well, based on what I know about this sort of issue (and I might be wrong) >> if it's used in the context of news coverage then of course there's no >> issue. > >Not true. Besides the fact that "news" is more or less >entertainment these days, they still need permission to use >it. Doesn't Sellam have some sort of bouncers to watch for news organizations at the door, and some sort of boilerplate permission / release paperwork for them? I've been to many conferences / trade shows as press, where the show management were quite picky about cameras and camcorders. In lieu of such paperwork, can't they assume this was an exhibition open to the public? - John From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Dec 13 08:29:42 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts References: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <1102672595.13275.7.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <16829.42838.146287.343249@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Jennings writes: Tom> On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: >> Out of interest, why do we use 50Hz power in the UK and 60Hz in >> the US? (I don't mean why are they different, I mean why those >> numbers) >> >> I saw yesterday a claim that the 60Hz in the US was a Tesla >> invention, but the info didn't elaborate on why he chose that >> figure if so... Tom> I don't know, but 60Hz is awfully convenient for calculating Tom> time (with synch motors). So is 50 Hz. The fastest moving hand on a clock goes at one RPM, so any frequency that can be converted to 1/60th Hz by multiplying with a sequence of rational numbers p/q with moderate sized p and q is fine. For example, 16 2/3rd Hz would be ok, too. (I think that is, or was, used on railroads of some European country, not sure which one.) Some of this discussion reminds me of the "arguments" why the metric system is inferior to the US system of measures. I don't actually know where 50 and 60 Hz came from, nor 100 and 115 and 220 and 240 volts. There may be some ancient justification in the tinkerings of various 19th century engineers, but it seems to me it makes most sense simply to view them as random numbers. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Dec 13 08:39:38 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts References: <41BA330E.7080104@jetnet.ab.ca> <200412110904.JAA00352@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <16829.43434.485419.624400@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Stan" == Stan Barr writes: Stan> Hi, ben franchuk said: >> Joe R. wrote: > I think you have it backward. The motor speeds are >> the results of the > line frequency not vice versa. >> >> But you generate line frequency with a rotating machine, thus the >> speed of the generator is your limiting factor. Kind of a chicken >> and egg problem almost. Ben. >> >> Stan> It also depends on the number of poles your motor/generator Stan> has. Other frequencies were tried in the early days - 100Hz Stan> for example. Stan> (The Anderson radio transmitter at Grimeton, Sweden generates Stan> 17.2KHz. It's a pruely mechanical transmitter using a big Stan> generator.) That's "Alexanderson". There were a bunch of those in the early days -- it's a nice way to generate RF at high power without using still-immature vacuum tubes. paul From pat at computer-refuge.org Mon Dec 13 08:39:53 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <16829.42838.146287.343249@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16829.42838.146287.343249@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200412130939.54184.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Monday 13 December 2004 09:29, Paul Koning wrote: > I don't actually know where 50 and 60 Hz came from, nor 100 and 115 > and 220 and 240 volts. There may be some ancient justification in > the tinkerings of various 19th century engineers, but it seems to me > it makes most sense simply to view them as random numbers. Probably 115/120V was chosen, because it was the correct voltage to make a pickle glow. ;) Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 13 09:40:34 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: Model 129 Keypunch on eBay with 30 minutes to to! In-Reply-To: <41BCFE85.2040202@pacbell.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Dec 2004, William Maddox wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5145489194&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT > eBay item 5145489194 (Ends Dec-12-04 19:00:00 PST) - IBM 129 keypunch > verifier vintage card punch $710 for an IBM 128 is a bit ... odd. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 13 09:42:13 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: Classics in Dec-2004 ( Wired <<<< ) In-Reply-To: <07b301c4e0be$581b2ac0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Dec 2004, John Allain wrote: > There's a two page spread in Wired showing the > (eBay)(cough) prices of some really old commputing > things, this months issue. > > A Univac reel tape was about the newest thing there. > Sorta interesting, if choked with commerciality. > > John A. > > s/Byte/Wired/ > (christmas shopping hangover) Ah yes, I thought that sounded familiar. A lot of that stuff is over-valued. I have no idea where they got the estimates from. Still, I'll be interested in following the auction next year. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 13 09:53:02 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041213080608.05ec6180@pc> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, John Foust wrote: > At 03:00 AM 12/13/2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > >> Well, based on what I know about this sort of issue (and I might be wrong) > >> if it's used in the context of news coverage then of course there's no > >> issue. > > > >Not true. Besides the fact that "news" is more or less > >entertainment these days, they still need permission to use > >it. > > Doesn't Sellam have some sort of bouncers to watch for news organizations > at the door, and some sort of boilerplate permission / release paperwork > for them? I've been to many conferences / trade shows as press, where > the show management were quite picky about cameras and camcorders. I'm not that picky. I assume people walking around with cameras are taking photos or video for their own private use. > In lieu of such paperwork, can't they assume this was an exhibition > open to the public? That's what I'm wondering. Still, common courtesy would dictate that they ask permission up front. My VCR didn't record the program for some odd reason. Now I'll have to try to track down a copy of the program somehow. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From news at computercollector.com Mon Dec 13 10:44:38 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041213164438.57203.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> >>> they still need permission to use it. BULLSHIT. I'm an actual, living, breathing, working reporter, and when I go to a convention or any other event, I write about and takes pictures of anything I damn well please. The only paperwork or permission I need is called the First Freaking Amendment. Having said that, once in a while I'll work out a gentlemen's agreement, whereby I agree NOT to report on something, in exchange for getting an exclusive or scoop on something else. If the news/video crew didn't announce themselves to the VCF event staff, that is certainly discourteous and unprofessional -- it's not like they were covering a fire and time prevented it. But more importantly, if a tiny event's leaders tried telling ME or any other respectable journalist what I could or couldn't do based on their permission, the appropriate response would be 'you need me, I don't need you'. (The fact that VCF was held in a quasi-public venue is another issue in the reporters' favor.) If what they photographed was something like a trade secret, then in certain cases they might seek Erik's permission, since he owned it. - Evan --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, John Foust wrote: > > > At 03:00 AM 12/13/2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > > >> Well, based on what I know about this sort of issue (and I might be > wrong) > > >> if it's used in the context of news coverage then of course there's no > > >> issue. > > > > > >Not true. Besides the fact that "news" is more or less > > >entertainment these days, they still need permission to use > > >it. > > > > Doesn't Sellam have some sort of bouncers to watch for news organizations > > at the door, and some sort of boilerplate permission / release paperwork > > for them? I've been to many conferences / trade shows as press, where > > the show management were quite picky about cameras and camcorders. > > I'm not that picky. I assume people walking around with cameras are > taking photos or video for their own private use. > > > In lieu of such paperwork, can't they assume this was an exhibition > > open to the public? > > That's what I'm wondering. Still, common courtesy would dictate that they > ask permission up front. > > My VCR didn't record the program for some odd reason. Now I'll have to > try to track down a copy of the program somehow. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers > ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org > ] > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 600 readers and counting! From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Dec 13 11:05:46 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN In-Reply-To: <20041213164438.57203.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041213164438.57203.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1102957546.17389.24.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-12-13 at 08:44 -0800, Computer Collector Newsletter wrote: > >>> they still need permission to use it. > > BULLSHIT. I'm an actual, living, breathing, working reporter, and when I go to > a convention or any other event, I write about and takes pictures of anything I > damn well please. The only paperwork or permission I need is called the First > Freaking Amendment. I'm surprised that permission isn't needed to show any footage that contains a name / logo or other identifying mark though, but that images which could technically have been made anywhere are fair game and subject to no restrictions. And even then there must be a lot of slack in any law; if a crew's shooting a city scene say, then they can't really go asking every single shop which displays a sign and it'd seem unreasonable to expect them to. In this case Ed said he himself took the image, so allowed use by CNN was implicit, and as there was no way of identifying that it was the VCF no other checks were necessary. I'm not a lawyer, and different countries must have all sorts of rules and regulations, but that seems like the common-sense approach to me! cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Dec 13 11:11:20 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <200412130939.54184.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <16829.42838.146287.343249@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <200412130939.54184.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <1102957880.17369.28.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-12-13 at 09:39 -0500, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Monday 13 December 2004 09:29, Paul Koning wrote: > > I don't actually know where 50 and 60 Hz came from, nor 100 and 115 > > and 220 and 240 volts. There may be some ancient justification in > > the tinkerings of various 19th century engineers, but it seems to me > > it makes most sense simply to view them as random numbers. > > Probably 115/120V was chosen, because it was the correct voltage to make > a pickle glow. ;) Ha ha! I found this, which gives a little bit of history: http://users.pandora.be/worldstandards/electricity.htm I like the bit about DC - personally I think I'd rather grab a 240V AC line than a 110V DC one! From news at computercollector.com Mon Dec 13 11:24:27 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN In-Reply-To: <1102957546.17389.24.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20041213172427.41049.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> Well, most events will issue press credentials, which are by application only, and the event planners can DENY credentials to anyone. So if you're CNN and the VCF declines to give you a press admittance, you could still enter as a member of the public, but presumably VCF would have been smart enough to have some fine print stating that members of the publics' photos cannot be used for commercial gain, in which case CNN would be illegally using its show admittance ticket. However, experienced reporters know that you only deal with stuff like credentials if the event planners insist on it. We want as little interference in doing our jobs as possible. If I can just show up at an event and do my job, then I will; I'm not going to voluntarily tell the event folks "gee, shouldn't you issue me a special pass, which you can later use to get in my way?". Think about it -- do building contractors suggest that town inspectors come harass them; do chefs demand sanitation inspections? No, they just deal with them as a necessary evil. Supreme Court decisions in this country thankfully disallow prior restraint from the government, let alone from private companies. --- Jules Richardson wrote: > On Mon, 2004-12-13 at 08:44 -0800, Computer Collector Newsletter wrote: > > >>> they still need permission to use it. > > > > BULLSHIT. I'm an actual, living, breathing, working reporter, and when I > go to > > a convention or any other event, I write about and takes pictures of > anything I > > damn well please. The only paperwork or permission I need is called the > First > > Freaking Amendment. > > I'm surprised that permission isn't needed to show any footage that > contains a name / logo or other identifying mark though, but that images > which could technically have been made anywhere are fair game and > subject to no restrictions. > > And even then there must be a lot of slack in any law; if a crew's > shooting a city scene say, then they can't really go asking every single > shop which displays a sign and it'd seem unreasonable to expect them to. > > In this case Ed said he himself took the image, so allowed use by CNN > was implicit, and as there was no way of identifying that it was the VCF > no other checks were necessary. > > I'm not a lawyer, and different countries must have all sorts of rules > and regulations, but that seems like the common-sense approach to me! > > cheers > > Jules > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 600 readers and counting! From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Mon Dec 13 11:40:26 2004 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN In-Reply-To: <000201c4e09e$4c49dc20$6e7ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <1goq84z.k54saueah7y8M%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Erik S. Klein wrote: > Well, considering I took the picture and it was of my machine AND you > couldn't tell that it's a VCF picture without my admitting to it I'm not > sure you'd be able to make TOO big a deal, but I am sure it would be fun > either way! ;) I saw that show, and I also saw your name in the credits. -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 13 11:47:56 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN In-Reply-To: <20041213172427.41049.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, Computer Collector Newsletter wrote: > Well, most events will issue press credentials, which are by application > only, and the event planners can DENY credentials to anyone. So if > you're CNN and the VCF declines to give you a press admittance, you > could still enter as a member of the public, but presumably VCF would > have been smart enough to have some fine print stating that members of > the publics' photos cannot be used for commercial gain, in which case > CNN would be illegally using its show admittance ticket. Again, this comes down to whether they were using the photo as content for their show, as opposed to doing press coverage. From what I've heard so far, it doesn't sound like it fell under press coverage. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From tomj at wps.com Mon Dec 13 12:56:41 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041213080608.05ec6180@pc> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041213080608.05ec6180@pc> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, John Foust wrote: > Doesn't Sellam have some sort of bouncers to watch for news organizations > at the door, and some sort of boilerplate permission / release paperwork > for them? I've been to many conferences / trade shows as press, where > the show management were quite picky about cameras and camcorders. > > In lieu of such paperwork, can't they assume this was an exhibition > open to the public? I may have made a dumb assumption -- that CNN used one of Sellam's photos, from his website. If they came and took their own photos (or equiv process) then almost certainly it's uncontrollable after the fact. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon Dec 13 12:38:11 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <1102957880.17369.28.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <16829.42838.146287.343249@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <200412130939.54184.pat@computer-refuge.org> <1102957880.17369.28.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200412131903.OAA07984@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > http://users.pandora.be/worldstandards/electricity.htm This is fascinating. I had no idea so many different plugs were in such wide use, especially all the ways grounding has been added to the basic European two-prong plug. Unfortunately it's got a couple of bugs. It seems a bit confused about transformers versus converters; and the "Trick to know the local voltage and frequency" doesn't work in, at least, North America (NA light bulbs are marked with voltage but not frequency). The descriptions of converters and transformers make the transformer sound like the more complex device, while in fact almost nothing could be simpler than a transformer, and the description of a converter sounds as though the generated wave is a sinewave with peaks clipped - like what you get from an amp driven into clipping - which works only to lower voltage, delivers too much power into RMS devices like heaters (or else delivers too low a peak voltage to anything else), and would be difficult to build. I've sent off a note to the address given on the page. We'll see what happens. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From tomj at wps.com Mon Dec 13 13:13:38 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <16829.42838.146287.343249@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <1102672595.13275.7.camel@weka.localdomain> <16829.42838.146287.343249@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: > Tom> I don't know, but 60Hz is awfully convenient for calculating > Tom> time (with synch motors). On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, Paul Koning wrote: > So is 50 Hz. The fastest moving hand on a clock goes at one RPM, so > any frequency that can be converted to 1/60th Hz by multiplying with a > sequence of rational numbers p/q with moderate sized p and q is fine. First, I don't mean to imply 'therefore 60Hz is superior', though we can have fun making jokes about it :-) 60 is convenient (not necessarily superior) in calcing time re: navigationally. It divides nicely into 360 (degrees in a circle) and all the related measures thereof. Of course with actual machinery such relations are merely pretty, especially on hallucinogens (really). > Some of this discussion reminds me of the "arguments" why the metric > system is inferior to the US system of measures. I'm on another mailing list where one person's .sig contains URLs to rants about the evils of the metric system, and 'the govamint' taking away mercurochrome, plus a few other tinfoil-hat subjects. [I found the sig: -- Non-political causes I support- We want mercurochrome - http://www.mercurochrome.org Self explanatory - http://www.metricsucks.org The former being *particulary* good. ] (The English system is handy in that, it seems to be based upon halving and doubling, and therefore is good with profoundly low-tech implementations (eg. stick and string or chain). If this were the 17th century you could make some argument about it, but certainly not in the last 100. Not that I would, anyways, unless it led to hilarity or heightened beer-consumption. Though the French I believe played with decimal time -- we never heard of THAT again (though I did once have a 24hr clock with 100 minutes, presumably for timecard-type purposes (this is far too many parentheticals))). > I don't actually know where 50 and 60 Hz came from, nor 100 and 115 > and 220 and 240 volts. There may be some ancient justification in the > tinkerings of various 19th century engineers, but it seems to me it > makes most sense simply to view them as random numbers. I think that is the correct answer, if such a thing is even possible. At least here in the sensible north hemisphere (where "up" really means "up" and the water goes down the toilet the proper direction. Maybe you saw the episode of The Simpsons where the U.S. Embassy has a rather complex toilet with a mechanism that FORCES the water to go in the proper direction. American technology at work -- screw you guys!) From tomj at wps.com Mon Dec 13 13:17:35 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN In-Reply-To: <20041213164438.57203.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041213164438.57203.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, Computer Collector Newsletter wrote: > BULLSHIT. I'm an actual, living, breathing, working reporter, and when I go to > a convention or any other event, I write about and takes pictures of anything I > damn well please. The only paperwork or permission I need is called the First > Freaking Amendment. ABSO-DIDDLY-UTELY. For some reason I was assuming that photos that Sellam himself took were used (apparently he did not state that, but I inferred it from his wording or my hallucination.) As Emily Latella says, "NEVER MIND!" From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Mon Dec 13 13:38:48 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041213080608.05ec6180@pc> Message-ID: <60841.127.0.0.1.1102966728.squirrel@127.0.0.1> > On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > > I may have made a dumb assumption -- that CNN used one of > Sellam's photos, from his website. If they came and took > their own photos (or equiv process) then almost certainly it's > uncontrollable after the fact. The picture in question can be seen at http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/vcf7/mydisplay3.jpg and is a picture of one of my Altair 8800s. The image actually shown on the show was cropped all the way in to the Altair and its drive with the only evidence that it was a VCF picture (to me, anyway) being the plexiglass case cover. I had those covers made for this year's VCF. Nobody else on the planet would have known where that picture was taken had I not identified it myself. This image was used, in conjunction with two "studio" images I took of the same machine, for about 15 seconds in the middle of the show. All of the images had text superimposed on them that told about the introduction of the Altair 30 years ago and about a couple of undergrads who started some company to make software for it. All of the pictures were were taken by me (I hold the copyright, for whatever that's worth) and all appear on my website. The show's producer simply asked for higher resolution copies for the NEXT@CNN spot. She was given these with my permission to use them on the show. I'm not sure what Sellam's beef is, but as I said earlier it's probably good for some fun either way. I'm also not sure why Sellam hates CNN that much but there's probably a fun story there too. Clear as mud now, eh? :) -- Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon Dec 13 13:35:48 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN In-Reply-To: <20041213172427.41049.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041213172427.41049.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200412131939.OAA08401@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Supreme Court decisions in this country [presumably the USA] > thankfully disallow prior restraint from the government, let alone > from private companies. This reveals an apparent misconception. Restraints on government are often (I'd almost say "usually") more severe, not less so, than on other entities like individuals and private corporations. (This is because government is in a position of much more abusable power. Or at least that's the theory; how true it remains in today's system is arguable.) For example, the USA government is forbidden most forms of censorship, but private entities are not; a newspaper is perfectly free to censor - to not print - any story, letter, or whatever that it cares to, for any reason it pleases. (There are exceptions, but they are fairly narrow, and from what I understand do not apply to individual cases, only to patterns of behaviour.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Dec 13 14:12:05 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts Message-ID: <200412132012.MAA13451@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Paul Koning" ---snip--- > >Some of this discussion reminds me of the "arguments" why the metric >system is inferior to the US system of measures. Contrary to what Tom Jennings states in a later post, there are sound physical reasons for using fractional systems when dealing with the physical world. I'm not defending the English system that is a hodgepodge of poorly related measurement standards. The only reason we have a decimal system is because of the number of fingers we have. Hardly a sound reason to squeeze physical relations into. One wonders why there are 2.5mm screws when the decimal system works so well. If we'd had 8 finger, things would have been so much easier to work with. 8 is 2 cubed and one hand would be 4 or 2 squared. These both fit nicely into the physical world were squares cubes are most often worked with. Even logs would have made more sense under a base 8 system. > >I don't actually know where 50 and 60 Hz came from, nor 100 and 115 >and 220 and 240 volts. There may be some ancient justification in the >tinkerings of various 19th century engineers, but it seems to me it >makes most sense simply to view them as random numbers. I've been trying to find some actual history on the 50/60 thing on the net but so far, all I was able to find was that cell phones are frying our brains. My understanding was that it was a balance between efficient generation and efficient transformers. The voltages were mainly to control line loss. In the US, most people live close to their distribution transformer and line loss is not that high at 110-115V. Dwight > > paul > > From evan947 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 13 14:14:35 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041213201435.45139.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> That's not true, if it's on CNN, it's considered press coverage. --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, Computer Collector Newsletter wrote: > > > Well, most events will issue press credentials, which are by application > > only, and the event planners can DENY credentials to anyone. So if > > you're CNN and the VCF declines to give you a press admittance, you > > could still enter as a member of the public, but presumably VCF would > > have been smart enough to have some fine print stating that members of > > the publics' photos cannot be used for commercial gain, in which case > > CNN would be illegally using its show admittance ticket. > > Again, this comes down to whether they were using the photo as content for > their show, as opposed to doing press coverage. From what I've heard so > far, it doesn't sound like it fell under press coverage. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers > ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org > ] > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 600 readers and counting! From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 13 14:16:49 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN In-Reply-To: <60841.127.0.0.1.1102966728.squirrel@127.0.0.1> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041213080608.05ec6180@pc> <60841.127.0.0.1.1102966728.squirrel@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <47771.64.139.41.130.1102969010.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Erik Klein wrote: > The image actually shown on the show was cropped all the way in to the > Altair and its drive with the only evidence that it was a VCF picture (to > me, anyway) being the plexiglass case cover. I had those covers made for > this year's VCF. Nobody else on the planet would have known where that > picture was taken had I not identified it myself. That's why I was confused. I thought there was an objection to CNN using a photo they'd taken themselves, for which they would own the copyright. (For instance, if you pay a professional to photograph your wedding, the photographer holds the copyright unless you negotiate a contract stating otherwise.) Given that they vigorously protect their own copyrights, I'm surprised that they would steal someone else's. Maybe they were (incorrectly) confident that noone would notice. Eric From news at computercollector.com Mon Dec 13 14:17:30 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041213201730.9229.qmail@web52803.mail.yahoo.com> >>>> ABSO-DIDDLY-UTELY. I'm glad you agree. I agree with Erik's other reply too: anything that pisses off Sellam is highly entertaining. Hope I didn't just get banned from the next show. :) --- Tom Jennings wrote: > On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, Computer Collector Newsletter wrote: > > > BULLSHIT. I'm an actual, living, breathing, working reporter, and when I > go to > > a convention or any other event, I write about and takes pictures of > anything I > > damn well please. The only paperwork or permission I need is called the > First > > Freaking Amendment. > > > ABSO-DIDDLY-UTELY. For some reason I was assuming that photos > that Sellam himself took were used (apparently he did not state > that, but I inferred it from his wording or my hallucination.) > > As Emily Latella says, "NEVER MIND!" > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 600 readers and counting! From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Dec 13 14:15:30 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts References: <200412132012.MAA13451@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <41BDF862.8010001@jetnet.ab.ca> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > I've been trying to find some actual history on the 50/60 > thing on the net but so far, all I was able to find was > that cell phones are frying our brains. My understanding > was that it was a balance between efficient generation > and efficient transformers. The voltages were mainly to > control line loss. In the US, most people live close to > their distribution transformer and line loss is not that > high at 110-115V. Also let us not forget back then every city had its own generating plant for power. You had the choice of AC or DC depending what power generator your local city had installed. :) From tomj at wps.com Mon Dec 13 14:34:43 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN In-Reply-To: <60841.127.0.0.1.1102966728.squirrel@127.0.0.1> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041213080608.05ec6180@pc> <60841.127.0.0.1.1102966728.squirrel@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, Erik Klein wrote: > All of the pictures were were taken by me (I hold the copyright, for > whatever that's worth) and all appear on my website. The show's producer > simply asked for higher resolution copies for the NEXT@CNN spot. She was > given these with my permission to use them on the show. I missed that little tiny detail!! > Clear as mud now, eh? :) Ayup! :-) From tomj at wps.com Mon Dec 13 14:39:11 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN In-Reply-To: <200412131939.OAA08401@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <20041213172427.41049.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> <200412131939.OAA08401@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, der Mouse wrote: > This reveals an apparent misconception. Restraints on government are > often (I'd almost say "usually") more severe, not less so, than on > other entities like individuals and private corporations. (This is > because government is in a position of much more abusable power. Or at > least that's the theory; how true it remains in today's system is > arguable.) (The extraordinary, planetary-scale, historically-recent power of corporations wasn't forseen obviously. It will probably take as long to recognize and implement "separation of business and state" as it did 'church and state'. Oh woe is us.) > For example, the USA government is forbidden most forms of censorship, > but private entities are not; a newspaper is perfectly free to censor - > to not print - any story, letter, or whatever that it cares to, for any > reason it pleases. (There are exceptions, but they are fairly narrow, > and from what I understand do not apply to individual cases, only to > patterns of behaviour.) Why is it so often non-US citizens understand the US legal system more than American citizens? It's sad, deplorable, etc (hand-wave as obvious). From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Dec 13 14:42:08 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <41BDF862.8010001@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <200412132012.MAA13451@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041213153832.0494bab8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that ben franchuk may have mentioned these words: >Also let us not forget back then every city had its own >generating plant for power. You had the choice of AC >or DC depending what power generator your local city >had installed. :) Or both... or more! At one time early in it's history, our power plant could provide DC, 50Hz *and* 60Hz AC. The first to go was 50Hz (due to lack of need) but they were still generating DC into the 60's for a few customers, if I'm not mistaken... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From tomj at wps.com Mon Dec 13 14:42:27 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:20 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <200412132012.MAA13451@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200412132012.MAA13451@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >Some of this discussion reminds me of the "arguments" why the metric > >system is inferior to the US system of measures. > > Contrary to what Tom Jennings states in a later post, there > are sound physical reasons for using fractional systems > when dealing with the physical world. I'm not defending > the English system that is a hodgepodge of poorly > related measurement standards. The only reason we have > a decimal system is because of the number of fingers we > have. Hardly a sound reason to squeeze physical relations > into. One wonders why there are 2.5mm screws when the > decimal system works so well. I agree with you, 10 is no more, and actually less, magical than say 16 (hex works well on fingers with thumbs for carry, ad nauseum). The *consistency* of the MKS system is why it's superior, is all. From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Dec 13 14:52:58 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN References: <20041213172427.41049.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> <200412131939.OAA08401@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <008001c4e155$ba284e90$0200fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Jennings" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 3:39 PM Subject: Re: NEXT@CNN > On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, der Mouse wrote: > > > This reveals an apparent misconception. Restraints on government are > > often (I'd almost say "usually") more severe, not less so, than on > > other entities like individuals and private corporations. (This is > > because government is in a position of much more abusable power. Or at > > least that's the theory; how true it remains in today's system is > > arguable.) > > (The extraordinary, planetary-scale, historically-recent power > of corporations wasn't forseen obviously. It will probably take > as long to recognize and implement "separation of business and > state" as it did 'church and state'. Oh woe is us.) > The founding fathers also never realized the federal government would become as powerful as it is today (states were much more powerful under the confederation then today's government). You can go back to the beginning of civilization and you will find the people with the cash always run the government either directly (holding office or being King) or indirectly (putting their own people in office), so Corporations in 2004 are no different in this regard then the top 5% of landowners in 1776. From melamy at earthlink.net Mon Dec 13 14:55:17 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts Message-ID: <30061503.1102971317809.JavaMail.root@huey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> the only sound physical reason for fractions is cooking... the general populace is so technically illiterate that is really doesn't make a difference whether things are in fractions or decimal. They really don't have a clue anyway. When was the last time you heard any clerk actually count change out or someone realize that 1/4 cup is 1/2 of a 1/2 cup... The people that like decimal systems don't understand fractions and the fractional people don't know what to do with a decimal point. As for eight fingers, I like my thumbs... -----Original Message----- From: "Dwight K. Elvey" Sent: Dec 13, 2004 3:12 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts >From: "Paul Koning" ---snip--- > >Some of this discussion reminds me of the "arguments" why the metric >system is inferior to the US system of measures. Contrary to what Tom Jennings states in a later post, there are sound physical reasons for using fractional systems when dealing with the physical world. From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Dec 13 14:59:08 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts References: <200412132012.MAA13451@clulw009.amd.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20041213153832.0494bab8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <008f01c4e156$96fbadd0$0200fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Merchberger" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 3:42 PM Subject: Re: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts > Rumor has it that ben franchuk may have mentioned these words: > > >Also let us not forget back then every city had its own > >generating plant for power. You had the choice of AC > >or DC depending what power generator your local city > >had installed. :) > > Or both... or more! > > At one time early in it's history, our power plant could provide DC, 50Hz > *and* 60Hz AC. The first to go was 50Hz (due to lack of need) but they were > still generating DC into the 60's for a few customers, if I'm not mistaken... > > Laterz, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger Who would be using DC besides electro-platers? From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Dec 13 15:05:27 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <30061503.1102971317809.JavaMail.root@huey.psp.pas.earthlin k.net> References: <30061503.1102971317809.JavaMail.root@huey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041213150257.05d497a8@pc> At 02:55 PM 12/13/2004, you wrote: >the only sound physical reason for fractions is cooking... the general populace is so technically illiterate that is really doesn't make a difference whether things are in fractions or decimal. They really don't have a clue anyway. When was the last time you heard any clerk actually count change out or someone realize that 1/4 cup is 1/2 of a 1/2 cup... But measuring by volume isn't necessarily the best method, either, particularly for flours that vary in volume depending on how long they've been sitting, the weather, or whether they've been sifted. They teach fractions like that in third or fourth grade. There's no excuse. - John P.S. Watch for me on the Food Network's "The Next Food Network Star" contest. From cmurillo at manizales.autonoma.edu.co Mon Dec 13 10:57:05 2004 From: cmurillo at manizales.autonoma.edu.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts References: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <1102672595.13275.7.camel@weka.localdomain> <16829.42838.146287.343249@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <41BDC9E1.C705F16C@manizales.autonoma.edu.co> Paul Koning wrote: > I don't actually know where 50 and 60 Hz came from, nor 100 and 115 > and 220 and 240 volts. There may be some ancient justification in the > tinkerings of various 19th century engineers, but it seems to me it > makes most sense simply to view them as random numbers. Almost random, I concur, but there were definite technical factors behind. It took a while for people to settle on 60Hz or 50Hz. Some interesting tidbits mostly taken from "Engineers and Electrons" by Ryder & Fink, IEEE Press: First there was the AC vs. DC debate. Edison firmly believed that DC was better, while Tesla-Westinghouse pushed things the other way. Edison even tried (though friends) to push legislation that would outlaw voltages greater than 300V, thus nullifying AC's advantage for transformation to higher voltages (and therefore transmission over longer distances). In 1888, a Harold P. Brown, now widely believed to have been funded and helped by Edison, published letters stating that "AC can be described by no adjective less forcible than damnable". In Ohio, Brown even electrocuted several animals in front of witnesses using AC in order to prove its perilousness. Edison's interest was not safety: at the time, he held the patent to the only available power usage meter, but it only worked with DC. Also, some of the competing light companies used arc lamps, which require high voltages. Finally, Westinghouse held Tesla's patent for the induction motor. Thus, when bids were called from Westinghouse and General Electric to construct the generators for the Niagara Falls project, Westinghouse won thanks to its AC experience. What really tilted the balance in favor of AC was the 1891 demonstration of AC 3-phase transmission at 30,000 volts from Lauffen to Frankfurt, separated by 100 miles (Brown of "Brown-Boveri fame-another Brown- was behind this). DC continued to be used only in transportation systems thanks to the higher starting torque of the DC motors. As for frequency, the factors that usually affected the choice were suitability for use in different devices and the preference of mechanical engineers to design steam engines operating at integral RPM specs. At roughly 25 Hz, flicker became "tolerable" for Edison's cotton filament bulbs, but not so for arc lamps, which required higher frequencies. However, higher frequencies made mechanical design more difficult for AC motors. For example: for the Niagara Falls project, both 16 2/3 and 33 1/3 Hz were proposed. 25Hz was ultimately decided on. This was because the turbine speeds were set at 250 RPM and you need an integral number of poles. A 1888 Westinghouse alternator ran at 2000 RPM and had 8 poles for 133 1/3 Hz. Transformers, filament and arc lighting worked fine at that frequency, but it was too high for AC motors. Around 1890 a lower RPM figure was used when steam engines first shared a single shaft with alternators, and L.B. Stillwell proposed 3600 cycles per minute or 60Hz, which was on the high end for AC motors but good for all lighting and also for efficient and not-too-bulky transformers. That way you could have 1800 rpm steam turbines or 225 rpm steam engines. Carlos. -- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez Dean of Engineering Universidad Autonoma de Manizales, Manizales, Colombia ---- From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Dec 13 15:42:21 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <008f01c4e156$96fbadd0$0200fea9@game> Message-ID: > Who would be using DC besides electro-platers? Old elevators. Lots of old elevators. New York City finally shut down its DC distribution about two years ago. A friend at a large movie film printer showed me the fancy new rectifier in place of the old DC panel. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From brad at heeltoe.com Mon Dec 13 15:45:06 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: Lisp machine wisdom In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 11 Dec 2004 22:42:42 GMT." <1102804962.15284.13.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200412132145.iBDLj6FS027604@mwave.heeltoe.com> Jules Richardson wrote: >Makes perfect sense :) > > >A novice was trying to fix a broken Lisp machine by turning the power >off and on. Knight, seeing what the student was doing spoke sternly: >"You can not fix a machine by just power-cycling it with no >understanding of what is going wrong." Knight turned the machine off >and on. The machine worked. :-) if you're ever near CSAIL at MIT go visit Tom Knight. It will be clear in a few minutes why this was written. He's a great guy and most certainly has "the touch". ah, zen... -brad From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Dec 13 15:50:42 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: Cooking, fractions & reply attribution... (was: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041213150257.05d497a8@pc> References: <30061503.1102971317809.JavaMail.root@huey.psp.pas.earthlin k.net> <30061503.1102971317809.JavaMail.root@huey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041213163934.0493c7a0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that John Foust may have mentioned these words: >At 02:55 PM 12/13/2004, you wrote: > >.... When was the last time you heard any clerk actually count change out... Earlier today. Oh, that was me... ;-) I do run into it occasionally, but it is becoming rarer... :-/ >But measuring by volume isn't necessarily the best method, either, >particularly for flours that vary in volume depending on how long >they've been sitting, the weather, or whether they've been sifted. Just like salt. A tsp. of kosher, table or popcorn are *all* different amounts of NaCl. >They teach fractions like that in third or fourth grade. >There's no excuse. Dyslexia. There are a lot more kinds of it than just writing your letters backwards (my type) -- I have two friends that *just can't spell*, and my wife is LD in math; she can't handle decimals or fractions! Oh, guess who has the most college degrees of the 4 people I just mentioned: my wife. Some people's brains are just plain *wired funny* -- sometimes it's a good thing, sometimes it's not. Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger >P.S. Watch for me on the Food Network's "The Next Food Network Star" contest. P.S. Avid (rabid? ;-) fan of Alton Brown... What that man can do with a Weber grill is awe-inspiring... ;^> P.P.S. John: You know there is a way of forcing Spewdora to put the person's name in the attribution, instead of defaulting to 'you'? In the eudora.ini file, you could add a line similar to: ReplyAttribution=Rumor has it that %2 may have mentioned these words: The %2 replaces 'you' with the name of the person in the 'From:' header. -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Profile, don't speculate." SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers | Daniel J. Bernstein zmerch@30below.com | From pat at computer-refuge.org Mon Dec 13 15:57:22 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200412131657.22647.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Monday 13 December 2004 16:42, William Donzelli wrote: > > Who would be using DC besides electro-platers? > > Old elevators. Lots of old elevators. And, lots of not-so-old elevators. There's a lot of elevators installed at purdue that use a 3ph AC->DC motor/generator set to run a DC motor for the elevator (which seems to typically be about 250VDC). Doing that makes direction control simple (a DPDT relay can switch the polarity, and thus the direction), and (as someone else noted) gives good starting torque. And speaking of old elevators, in one building, Purdue has an elevator still operating from the 1920s or 1930s. Even controllers from the 70s (used in the dorm I lived in) still used piles and piles of relays to form the controller. Some of the more recent elevators have (ick!) a Windows PC attached to them, presumably for programming type tasks, and a PLC of some sort to run the actual elevator. I wouldn't trust anything as complex as a PC to directly control an elevator. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From tomj at wps.com Mon Dec 13 16:01:58 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <41BDC9E1.C705F16C@manizales.autonoma.edu.co> References: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <1102672595.13275.7.camel@weka.localdomain> <16829.42838.146287.343249@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <41BDC9E1.C705F16C@manizales.autonoma.edu.co> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, Carlos Murillo wrote: > Almost random, I concur, but there were definite technical factors > behind. It took a while for people to settle > on 60Hz or 50Hz. Some interesting tidbits mostly taken from > "Engineers and Electrons" by Ryder & Fink, IEEE Press: Good find! > Edison's interest was not safety: at the time, he held the patent to the > only available power usage meter, but it only worked with DC. Also, some > of the competing light companies used arc lamps, which require > high voltages. Finally, Westinghouse held Tesla's patent for the > induction motor. Clearly, trying to determine much of this with logic is useless. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Dec 13 16:09:14 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts Message-ID: <200412132209.OAA13511@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Teo Zenios" > >Who would be using DC besides electro-platers? > Hi I'm not sure if they had the same reason but today, DC is actually used for long range, high voltage lines in a number of places. DC doesn't require the insulation to hold off quite as much voltage. It doesn't suffer from inductive losses. It isn't much good for home use. In fact, lamps don't do as well on DC as AC because of the electrical effects of the wire evaporating ( not sure which end goes first ). Dwight From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Dec 13 16:11:21 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts References: <200412131657.22647.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <16830.5001.382668.892271@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Patrick" == Patrick Finnegan writes: Patrick> On Monday 13 December 2004 16:42, William Donzelli wrote: >> > Who would be using DC besides electro-platers? >> >> Old elevators. Lots of old elevators. Patrick> And, lots of not-so-old elevators. Some machine tools, too. I remember seeing a large planer -- 12 foot stroke, roughly -- that used a DC motor for the bed drive. The idea was that you would get the back & forth motion of the bed by throwing the motor from forward into reverse or vice versa at each stroke endpoint. The notion of reversing polarity on a big honking DC motor under full load, moving several tons of steel at pretty substantial speeds, was amazing, but it worked and the magic smoke stayed where it belonged. That machine had a dedicated motor/generator set on it. paul From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 13 16:22:00 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN In-Reply-To: <60841.127.0.0.1.1102966728.squirrel@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, Erik Klein wrote: > I'm not sure what Sellam's beef is, but as I said earlier it's probably > good for some fun either way. Ah, there's nothing there. Shucks. > I'm also not sure why Sellam hates CNN that much but there's probably a > fun story there too. You mean besides the fact that they're a joke just like every other cable "news" broadcaster? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Dec 13 16:25:23 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <16830.5001.382668.892271@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: > >> Old elevators. Lots of old elevators. > > Patrick> And, lots of not-so-old elevators. > > Some machine tools, too. > > I remember seeing a large planer -- 12 foot stroke, roughly -- that > used a DC motor for the bed drive. The idea was that you would get > the back & forth motion of the bed by throwing the motor from forward > into reverse or vice versa at each stroke endpoint. I think the original question concerned devices that were originally made to hook up to the DC grid. Many old DC elevators still in use were upgraded with motor-generator sets years ago, but as designed, they were just "plugged-in to the DC outlet". Yes, there is such a thing - it looks very odd. The old elevators, however, did not have them. They were generally hard wired with a disconnect, like most large AC machines these days. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 13 16:25:54 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN In-Reply-To: <20041213201435.45139.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, evan wrote: > That's not true, if it's on CNN, it's considered press coverage. Bullshit. CNN is entertainment pure and simple. Sure they call themselves "news" and "News" is their middle name but what they report is pure mind-numbing drivel. I'd rather watch four foul-mouthed little 4th graders and a piece of human poo that hops around all over the screen. As a matter of fact, I do! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ggs at shiresoft.com Mon Dec 13 16:26:35 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: KM11 Clone Message-ID: <1102976794.5947.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> > I've been working on creating a clone of DEC's maintenance panel > (KM11) > for some time now. I intended it to be used as my "hello world" board > to get familiar with EagleCAD and the board fab process. > > On Friday my first boards arrived from the fab house. I spent this > weekend building up 2 boards and both worked perfectly the first time. > It was so cool to be able to single step the microcode in an 11/40! > > It's up on my web site > (http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/boards/index.html) for those that > want > to see what it looks like. Sometime this week I'll take a picture of > the 11/40 with 2 KM11's hanging out of it! > > My first batch of boards/parts has already been spoken for. But for > any > who are interested, I'll place another order for parts/boards for > delivery sometime in January. > > Each board will come with complete schematics, parts list and assembly > instructions. I will also have collected drawings for the overlays > and > instructions on use for the various processors (11/20, 11/05, 11/40, > 11/45 and 11/70). > > I'm pricing as follows: > "Bare" Board $75 > "kit" (includes all the parts) $125 > assembled and tested $250 (I really don't want to) > OK, I just got a couple of board quotes with larger quantities. If I can get an order of ~50 boards, I can drop the prices by $40! So the pricing would be: "Bare" Board $35 "kit" (includes all the parts) $85 assembled and tested $250 (I still don't want to) If I can get a preliminary count of folks who want one (or two or ...) I can get the boards and parts ordered. I'd like to place the orders during the first week of January. -- TTFN - Guy From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Dec 13 16:13:52 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: Cooking, fractions & reply attribution... (was: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041213163934.0493c7a0@mail.30below.com> References: <30061503.1102971317809.JavaMail.root@huey.psp.pas.earthlin k.net> <30061503.1102971317809.JavaMail.root@huey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20041213163934.0493c7a0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041213160658.05e9eea8@pc> At 03:50 PM 12/13/2004, Roger Merchberger wrote: >Rumor has it that John Foust may have mentioned these words: >>At 02:55 PM 12/13/2004, you wrote: >>>.... When was the last time you heard any clerk actually count change out... > >Earlier today. Oh, that was me... ;-) I do run into it occasionally, but it is becoming rarer... :-/ I didn't say that, you've confused your quoting. >Some people's brains are just plain *wired funny* -- sometimes it's a good thing, sometimes it's not. They are free to develop their own units of measurement if they like. :-) >>P.S. Watch for me on the Food Network's "The Next Food Network Star" contest. >P.S. Avid (rabid? ;-) fan of Alton Brown... What that man can do with a Weber grill is awe-inspiring... ;^> I even look like him, so I must have a chance. >P.P.S. John: You know there is a way of forcing Spewdora to put the person's name in the attribution, instead of defaulting to 'you'? Yes. I usually use "Reply to all" which includes the attribution. I must've missed it that time by using "Reply" instead. - John From cmurillo at manizales.autonoma.edu.co Mon Dec 13 12:00:03 2004 From: cmurillo at manizales.autonoma.edu.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts References: <200412132209.OAA13511@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <41BDD8A3.D3B6B5A6@manizales.autonoma.edu.co> "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > I'm not sure if they had the same reason but today, > DC is actually used for long range, high voltage lines > in a number of places. DC doesn't require the insulation > to hold off quite as much voltage. It doesn't suffer > from inductive losses. But you need specialized devices not available at the end of the 19th century to produce DC in the required range (>750KV). Back then you only had the transformer (or inefficient DC-DC motor converters(. > It isn't much good for home use. In fact, lamps don't > do as well on DC as AC because of the electrical effects > of the wire evaporating ( not sure which end goes first ). Ah, the "Edison Effect". Some electrons (especially those closer to the negative side) would jump away from the filament and then, thanks to the electric field, land on the filament but closer to the anode. The result was that the section of the filament closer to the anode would be carrying more current than say, the first third of the length of the filament (in the - towards + direction). So filament failures almost always occured in the last 1/3 of the filament. The fact that part of the current traveled through the space, not the filament, was extraordinary news in 1883, especially since the electron was unknown at the time. With metal filaments this became worse since some metal atoms would migrate closer to the - terminal. carlos. -- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez Dean of Engineering Universidad Autonoma de Manizales, Manizales, Colombia ---- "After finding no qualified candidates for the position of principal, the school department is extremely pleased to announce the appointment of David Steele to the post." Philip Streifer, superintendent of schools, Barrington RI. From news at computercollector.com Mon Dec 13 16:40:33 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041213224033.49886.qmail@web52810.mail.yahoo.com> I loathe getting too off-topic, so Sellam, see my private flame in your inbox. --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, evan wrote: > > > That's not true, if it's on CNN, it's considered press coverage. > > Bullshit. CNN is entertainment pure and simple. Sure they call > themselves "news" and "News" is their middle name but what they report is > pure mind-numbing drivel. > > I'd rather watch four foul-mouthed little 4th graders and a piece of human > poo that hops around all over the screen. As a matter of fact, I do! > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers > ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org > ] > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 600 readers and counting! From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Dec 13 16:57:40 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts References: <200412132209.OAA13511@clulw009.amd.com> <41BDD8A3.D3B6B5A6@manizales.autonoma.edu.co> Message-ID: <16830.7780.132770.266312@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Carlos" == Carlos Murillo writes: >> It isn't much good for home use. In fact, lamps don't do as well >> on DC as AC because of the electrical effects of the wire >> evaporating ( not sure which end goes first ). Carlos> Ah, the "Edison Effect". Some electrons (especially those Carlos> closer to the negative side) would jump away from the Carlos> filament and then, thanks to the electric field, land on the Carlos> filament but closer to the anode. The result was that the Carlos> section of the filament closer to the anode would be carrying Carlos> more current than say, the first third of the length of the Carlos> filament (in the - towards + direction). So filament Carlos> failures almost always occured in the last 1/3 of the Carlos> filament. ... Interesting! That suggests that DC should be no big problem for halogen lamps (incandescents with iodine vapor fill). paul From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Dec 13 16:57:05 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1102978625.17389.39.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-12-13 at 17:25 -0500, William Donzelli wrote: > > >> Old elevators. Lots of old elevators. > > > > Patrick> And, lots of not-so-old elevators. > > > > Some machine tools, too. > > > > I remember seeing a large planer -- 12 foot stroke, roughly -- that > > used a DC motor for the bed drive. The idea was that you would get > > the back & forth motion of the bed by throwing the motor from forward > > into reverse or vice versa at each stroke endpoint. > > I think the original question concerned devices that were originally made > to hook up to the DC grid. I have a feeling that a lot of trams and trolleybuses over here at least ran on DC, presumably for traction and speed control reasons. Whether they were candidates for being supplied by a DC grid or whether rotary converters were always used, I don't know. From shoppa_classiccmp at trailing-edge.com Mon Dec 13 17:03:39 2004 From: shoppa_classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (shoppa_classiccmp@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <16829.42838.146287.343249@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <1102672595.13275.7.camel@weka.localdomain> <16829.42838.146287.343249@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <41BE1FCB.nailD7N11BTIA@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> >> Out of interest, why do we use 50Hz power in the UK and 60Hz in the US? > I saw yesterday a claim that the 60Hz in the US was a Tesla invention Tesla dis a lot for AC power in general. 50 or 60Hz comes about from not wanting all your incadescent lamps looking like they flicker. If you power them from 15 or 20 Hz, you do see them flicker. At 60Hz there is a very minor flicker compared to pure DC. For industrial-size motors, lower frequencies are desirable, like 15 or 16.66 or 20 Hz. AC power is still produced at these frequencies for heavy-duty industrial customers like smelters, aluminum refinieries, electric railways, etc. For not-so-heavy transformers, higher frequencies are desirable, thus the 400 Hz AC power on military aircraft. The classic way of converting from AC at one frequency to another was motor-generator sets, (And to convert AC to DC you used rotary converters...) Modern implemenations use solid-state electronics. Tim. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 13 17:30:01 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <41BE1FCB.nailD7N11BTIA@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> References: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <1102672595.13275.7.camel@weka.localdomain> <16829.42838.146287.343249@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <41BE1FCB.nailD7N11BTIA@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <34369.64.139.41.130.1102980601.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Tim wrote: > For not-so-heavy transformers, higher frequencies are desirable, thus > the 400 Hz AC power on military aircraft. And civilian aircraft as well. When I flew from San Francisco to London in 2002, I had to make arrangements to use my CPAP machine. They were concerned because the machine is rated for 50 to 60 Hz. But it uses a switching power supply which is actually perfectly happy to run on 400 Hz, so I was able to use it. It's irritating that the manufacturer defines the rating based on what power they expect the user to have, rather than practical operational limits. Unfortuately, the mechanic assigned to wire the outlet for me (by a long extension cord and an adapter from the aviation power plug to a standard NEMA 5-15R receptacle) apparently plugged it into the "ground service bus" which is intended for non-flight use for vacuum cleaners and such, and is automatically turned off on takeoff. So I had to stay awake for the whole flight. On the return I asked them to make sure it was NOT wired to the ground service bus, and it worked fine. Speaking of annoying specifications, I was just reading the manual for an HP logic analyzer circa the mid-1990s. They make a distinction between "specifications" and "characteristics", defining the former to be something they actually test the instrument against, and the latter to be non-tested and non-guaranteed. They list the maximum clock fequency and minimum clock pulse width as specifications. But they list the number of channels and the memory depth as "characteristics", which means that if the analyzer only had 67 channels instead of the "characteristic" 68, they could still claim that it met the specifications. In practice I'm sure they wouldn't try to screw customers on that point, and couldn't get away with it anyhow because the channel count and memory depth are prominently featured in the sales literature. But after they go to all the trouble of explaining a distinction between specifications and characteristics, it seems really bizarre that they would put the channel count in the latter category since it is clear that they do actually have to test them all. Eric From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Dec 13 17:32:06 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: Cooking, fractions & reply attribution... (was: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts Message-ID: <200412132332.PAA13540@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Roger Merchberger" > >Dyslexia. There are a lot more kinds of it than just writing your letters >backwards (my type) -- I have two friends that *just can't spell*, and my >wife is LD in math; she can't handle decimals or fractions! Oh, guess who >has the most college degrees of the 4 people I just mentioned: my wife. > >Some people's brains are just plain *wired funny* -- sometimes it's a good >thing, sometimes it's not. > >Laterz, >Roger "Merch" Merchberger Hi When I was in grade school, I used to get B+'s on my math test. The teacher told me to write down the intermediate steps so that I could get more credit for partial solutions. Up till then I'd been working the problems out in my head and then just writing out the answer. An interesting result happened. My intermediate work had the same number or percentage of errors as my final results. Of course, I still worked them in my head or the final results would have been worse because of the cumulative effects. This was one of the first indications that I was dyslexic and not just lazy ( I was that as well ). I just made errors in translating what was in my head to the paper. Later, I found simple ways to check my results and got 100% on my test :) Dwight From tomj at wps.com Mon Dec 13 17:34:48 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <41BDD8A3.D3B6B5A6@manizales.autonoma.edu.co> References: <200412132209.OAA13511@clulw009.amd.com> <41BDD8A3.D3B6B5A6@manizales.autonoma.edu.co> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, Carlos Murillo wrote: > > It isn't much good for home use. In fact, lamps don't > > do as well on DC as AC because of the electrical effects > > of the wire evaporating ( not sure which end goes first ). > > Ah, the "Edison Effect". I'd heard of the effect, but not for a long time, and probably paid little attention to it :-) So, how pronounced is this DC-filament effect? If I collect dead lightbulbs from my cars, should I see filaments with gaps burned towards the ground end more often than not? (Tapered filaments would fix this.) From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Dec 13 17:55:12 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts Message-ID: <200412132355.PAA13562@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Tom Jennings" > >On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, Carlos Murillo wrote: > >> > It isn't much good for home use. In fact, lamps don't >> > do as well on DC as AC because of the electrical effects >> > of the wire evaporating ( not sure which end goes first ). >> >> Ah, the "Edison Effect". > >I'd heard of the effect, but not for a long time, and probably paid little >attention to it :-) > >So, how pronounced is this DC-filament effect? If I collect >dead lightbulbs from my cars, should I see filaments with gaps >burned towards the ground end more often than not? > >(Tapered filaments would fix this.) > > Hi I would think the effect is smaller today since we don't still use high vacuum bulbs. Most have a partial atmosphere of an inert gas. The Edison effect is the same as used in vacuum tubes. You still might see a slight bias towards one or the other end. You have to realize that work hardening and fracturing of the filament in an auto is a large factor in shortening the life of these lamps. Dwight From gordon at gjcp.net Mon Dec 13 17:59:18 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: References: <200412132209.OAA13511@clulw009.amd.com> <41BDD8A3.D3B6B5A6@manizales.autonoma.edu.co> Message-ID: <41BE2CD6.3020705@gjcp.net> > So, how pronounced is this DC-filament effect? If I collect > dead lightbulbs from my cars, should I see filaments with gaps > burned towards the ground end more often than not? I have noticed that if a car lightbulb blows, it tends to part at the bit where one "straight" bit of the filament goes into the helical part. I think this may be more down to mechanical stress. Gordon. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 13 18:49:48 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: HP9845 service toolkit Message-ID: My workbench is currently covered with a 9845 is many bits :-). And I am slowly figuring out just what's inside that darn machine... Anyway, I believe there was an HP service toolkit for it (based on the markings on the PSU cover). Does anyone have it? If so, I have some questions 1) What did said kit contain (other than normal hand tools, which I have anyway). I am almost sure 2 of the items in the kit were a 'Discharge Tool' for the power supply and a 'Turn on fixture' to run the machine without a monitor 2) What does the 'Discharge Tool' consist of? I'll guess it was just a reisstor connected to a couple of isulated probes, or a plug, or something. There are some insulated holes on the SPU cover, under them are bare pads on the PCB connected to the terminals of the mains smoothing capes. The instructions are to insert the tool into 2 of the holes, then into the other pair, then to check the voltage between the holes you put the tool in (basically, check the caps are discharged) before removing the PSU. From the size of those capacitors (1800uF, 200V, small coke-can size), I would agree! 3) More importantly, what does the 'Turn On Fixture' consist of? Again I'll make a gues. It's a little PCB that goes into one of the edge connectors in the monitor pillars. But which connector, and what's on the PCB? Does it just short a couple of pins together to complete some kind of interlock circuit, does it contain load resistors, or worse, does it contain ICs? HAs aonone else been foolish enough to dismantle the printhead? Suffice it to say it consists of a normal PCB that connects to the printer cable, a seramic substrate containing the (thermal) printhead heater elements, 7 seramic hybrid circuits that contain the driver cirucits, and something like 35 of those metal-rings-round-elastomer connectors (like those between an HP41 logic board and keyboard) to link everything up... -tony From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Mon Dec 13 19:00:21 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: KM11 Clone In-Reply-To: <1102976794.5947.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1102976794.5947.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 14:26:35 -0800, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > OK, I just got a couple of board quotes with larger quantities. If I > can get an order of ~50 boards, I can drop the prices by $40! So the > pricing would be: > "Bare" Board $35 > "kit" (includes all the parts) $85 > assembled and tested $250 (I still don't want to) Nice... I'm definitely in for one bare board @ $35, and if you need me to buy a second one to keep the order numbers up, put me down for two, but I don't need to take one away for someone else who is clammoring for one. Cheers, -ethan From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 13 19:15:48 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: HP9845 service toolkit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45827.64.139.41.130.1102986948.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Tony wrote: > My workbench is currently covered with a 9845 is many bits :-). And I am > slowly figuring out just what's inside that darn machine... I don't know about the service toolkit. There were apparently major software changes between the 9845A and 9845B. I'm not sure how much hardware difference there is, but I'd expect it to be relatively minor. The 9845B and 9845C are apparently fairly similar in all respects other than the monitor and the graphics control module (monchrome vs. color). However, for the 9845B and 9845C there are two different processor options. The original uses two HP "BPC" microprocessors, as described in HP Journal articles. This is the same 16-bit microprocessor used in the 9825 and 9835, and in various peripherals including the 9872 plotters. Later there was a higher-performance CPU option using commercial bit-slice parts. Probably 2901s, but I've never seen one so I can't say with any certainty. I'd expect that the I/O processor would still be a BPC. The 9845C monitor is apparently the same as used on one of the later HP 9000 Series 500 machines, which were based on the HP "Focus" (the world's first single-chip 32-bit microprocessor), and ran the "Sun" operating system (which had no relation to Sun Microsystems). They ran BASIC or HP-UX layered on top of Sun, similarly to how IBM ran AIX on top of another kernel. Eric From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 13 19:42:25 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: HP9845 service toolkit In-Reply-To: <45827.64.139.41.130.1102986948.squirrel@64.139.41.130> from "Eric Smith" at Dec 13, 4 05:15:48 pm Message-ID: > > Tony wrote: > > My workbench is currently covered with a 9845 is many bits :-). And I am > > slowly figuring out just what's inside that darn machine... > > I don't know about the service toolkit. > > There were apparently major software changes between the 9845A and 9845B. I believe mine is a 9845B. I've not got the case parts where I can easily see them (the PCBs being more interesting are what cover my bench :-)), but some of tha add-on ROM modules say '9845B' on them. I have a monochrome monitor. Incidentally, one of the ROM modules is a 3rd party one. Rather than being an HP ceramic hybrid in a plasic holder, this is a little PCB with 2 2764 EPROMs on one side, a couple of '373s and a small PROM (address decoder, I guess) on the other. This will be useful in figuring out pinouts, etc. > > However, for the 9845B and 9845C there are two different processor > options. The original uses two HP "BPC" microprocessors, as described > in HP Journal articles. This is the same 16-bit microprocessor used > in the 9825 and 9835, and in various peripherals including the 9872 I haev one of those. I don't think it's the same device -- exactly -- as in a 9825, it appears to have more connections for a start. It is almost certainly the same architecture, though. > plotters. Later there was a higher-performance CPU option using > commercial bit-slice parts. Probably 2901s, but I've never seen one I have that. It's 3 PCBs with a little backplane on top to link them together. One of the PCBs goes into the main backplane, and seems to contain mostly TTL, with 8 of what appear to be RAMs (but I can't identify them exaclty yet. All have the same 1816-xxxx number, all are made by AMD). The middle board ofthe 'sandwich' contains 4 2901 ALUs (you are right) + more TTL. The last board has a 2910 sequencer, some ROMs (microcode store, I guess), more TTL, including a 74150 which I assume is the con=dition bit multiplexer. > so I can't say with any certainty. I'd expect that the I/O processor > would still be a BPC. It is, or at least it is in my machine. I've traced the I/O bus connections to that board anyway -- the one thing I know for sure is the pinout of the I/O slot. Incidentally, the I/O backplane contains a lot of buffer chips, a bit like a cut down 9878. -tony From brad at heeltoe.com Mon Dec 13 19:53:56 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: KM11 Clone In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 13 Dec 2004 14:26:35 PST." <1102976794.5947.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200412140153.iBE1rubq005816@mwave.heeltoe.com> Guy Sotomayor wrote: > >If I can get a preliminary count of folks who want one (or two or ...) I >can get the boards and parts ordered. I'd like to place the orders >during the first week of January. I have to plead ignorance. I've got an 11/34 and an 11/44 (doesn't everyone?) why do I want an KM11? (I'm happy to believe I really do and just don't know it, but I need some coaching - I don't even know what it really does - can you write up a short FAQ for the clueless?) -brad From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 13 20:05:46 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: HP9845 service toolkit In-Reply-To: References: <45827.64.139.41.130.1102986948.squirrel@64.139.41.130> from "Eric Smith" at Dec 13, 4 05:15:48 pm Message-ID: <51184.64.139.41.130.1102989946.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Tony replied to my comments about the HP BPC processor in the 9845: > I haev one of those. I don't think it's the same device -- exactly -- as > in a 9825, it appears to have more connections for a start. It is almost > certainly the same architecture, though. The full processor is a three-chip hybrid. But in some cases they use only the main processor chip. That's what's in the 9872, and IIRC the I/O processor of the 9845. Although the 9825 and 9835 use the three-chip hybrid, it may be a different version than the one that serves as the system CPU in the non-bitslice version of the 9845. Regarding my comments on the bit-slice processor: > I have that. It's 3 PCBs with a little backplane on top to link them Knowing how thorough you normally are with these things, I don't need to make any special requests about your reverse-engineering effort. But if at all possible, could you please dump the PROMs of that processor assembly? Best regards, Eric From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 13 20:00:40 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: KM11 Clone In-Reply-To: <200412140153.iBE1rubq005816@mwave.heeltoe.com> from "Brad Parker" at Dec 13, 4 08:53:56 pm Message-ID: > > > Guy Sotomayor wrote: > > > >If I can get a preliminary count of folks who want one (or two or ...) I > >can get the boards and parts ordered. I'd like to place the orders > >during the first week of January. > > I have to plead ignorance. I've got an 11/34 and an 11/44 (doesn't everyone?) > > why do I want an KM11? I'm pretty sure you don't, unless you have an RX01 (not an RX02) floppy drive, an RK11-C (or RK11-D?) DECpack controller, and maybe a few other peripherals. > (I'm happy to believe I really do and just don't know it, but I need some > coaching - I don't even know what it really does - can you write up a short > FAQ for the clueless?) The KM11 (original and clone) is a module with 28 lights (originally bulbs, my clone, and I assume this clone, uses LEDs) and 4 switches on it. It fits into a specially wired connector in some older CPUs (the 11/34 and 11/44 are not among them) and peripherals, whereupon the lights monitor certain internal signals (perhaps the CPU microcode program counter, carry flag, xero flag, and so on) and the switches let you do things like single-step the microcode. If you are interested in figuring out exactly what goes on at the microcycle level, or want to do hardware debugging, it's a very useful tool. If not, then you don't need one. Incidetnally, some machines have 2 connectors for KM11s (the 11/45 has one for the CPU, one for the FPU), so you might well want 2 of them. I doubt, alas, if I'll be buying any of the clone boards. I have my hand-wired one (that really started all this, I guess) and 2 genuine DEC ones... -tony From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 13 20:09:53 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: KM11 Clone In-Reply-To: <200412140153.iBE1rubq005816@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: Your message of "Mon, 13 Dec 2004 14:26:35 PST." <1102976794.5947.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200412140153.iBE1rubq005816@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <51757.64.139.41.130.1102990193.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Brad writes: > I have to plead ignorance. I've got an 11/34 and an 11/44 (doesn't > everyone?) > why do I want an KM11? Because it would look pretty on your shelf? The 11/44 definitely does not have a slot for a KM11, and IIRC the 11/34 doesn't either. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 13 20:14:02 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: HP9845 service toolkit In-Reply-To: <51184.64.139.41.130.1102989946.squirrel@64.139.41.130> from "Eric Smith" at Dec 13, 4 06:05:46 pm Message-ID: > > Tony replied to my comments about the HP BPC processor in the 9845: > > I haev one of those. I don't think it's the same device -- exactly -- as > > in a 9825, it appears to have more connections for a start. It is almost > > certainly the same architecture, though. > > The full processor is a three-chip hybrid. But in some cases they > use only the main processor chip. That's what's in the 9872, and IIRC > the I/O processor of the 9845. > > Although the 9825 and 9835 use the three-chip hybrid, it may be a > different version than the one that serves as the system CPU in the > non-bitslice version of the 9845. Perversely the I/O processor in my 9845 seems to have many more connections than the one in the 9825..... > > Regarding my comments on the bit-slice processor: > > I have that. It's 3 PCBs with a little backplane on top to link them > > Knowing how thorough you normally are with these things, I don't need > to make any special requests about your reverse-engineering effort. > But if at all possible, could you please dump the PROMs of that > processor assembly? Sometime, sure. They're soldered in IIRC which makes things a little more of a pain (but not impssible). The main ROMs are socketed, but are somewhat strange in that they contain address (?) latches. Well, put it this way. The buses of the 9845 processors are multiplexed address and data (like a 9825, not suprisingly), there are no address latches on the memory boards. -tony From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Mon Dec 13 20:49:09 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: KM11 Clone In-Reply-To: References: <200412140153.iBE1rubq005816@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 02:00:40 +0000 (GMT), Tony Duell wrote: > I'm pretty sure you don't, unless you have an... RK11-C (or RK11-D?) DECpack > controller, and maybe a few other peripherals. It's the RK11-C... there's a single slot facing the front of the rack that I expect is where it goes. The RK11-D is a quad backplane thingie that goes inside a BA-11 or some such (and the RKV11-D is a version of it that fits in an external 4-slot enclosure with a set of cables and a paddle card that go to a host's Qbus. I'd be interested to know what _other_ peripherals have a KM11 slot. I personally want one to debug my RK11C (even though I am usually using my RK05s with the aforementioned RKV11-D) just for the sake of doing it. I do _have_ at least one RK11D that I could use for "real work", but I'd like to get the -C working nonetheless. -ethan From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Dec 13 20:52:18 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <41BDD8A3.D3B6B5A6@manizales.autonoma.edu.co> Message-ID: > Ah, the "Edison Effect". Some electrons (especially those > closer to the negative side) would jump away from the filament > and then, thanks to the electric field, land on the filament > but closer to the anode. In a few bulbs, if the geometry is right, they will magically turn into very low power magnetrons. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Mon Dec 13 20:52:43 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: Model 129 Keypunch on eBay with 30 minutes to to! In-Reply-To: References: <41BCFE85.2040202@pacbell.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 07:40:34 -0800 (PST), Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sun, 12 Dec 2004, William Maddox wrote: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5145489194&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT > > eBay item 5145489194 (Ends Dec-12-04 19:00:00 PST) - IBM 129 keypunch > > verifier vintage card punch > > $710 for an IBM 128 is a bit ... odd. And for one that is guaranteed to be broken... (snapped-off key lever)... Looking at the bidding, a couple of guys _really_ wanted it. -ethan From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Dec 13 21:19:56 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: Model 129 Keypunch on eBay with 30 minutes to to! References: <41BCFE85.2040202@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <000601c4e18b$c95b3cc0$739f6d44@SONYDIGITALED> P. T. Barnum had a saying about this.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 7:52 PM Subject: Re: Model 129 Keypunch on eBay with 30 minutes to to! > On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 07:40:34 -0800 (PST), Vintage Computer Festival > wrote: >> On Sun, 12 Dec 2004, William Maddox wrote: >> >> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5145489194&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT >> > eBay item 5145489194 (Ends Dec-12-04 19:00:00 PST) - IBM 129 keypunch >> > verifier vintage card punch >> >> $710 for an IBM 128 is a bit ... odd. > > And for one that is guaranteed to be broken... (snapped-off key lever)... > > Looking at the bidding, a couple of guys _really_ wanted it. > > -ethan > > From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 13 22:49:09 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <16830.7780.132770.266312@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, Paul Koning wrote: > Interesting! That suggests that DC should be no big problem for > halogen lamps (incandescents with iodine vapor fill). How do you figure? There's still evaporation in halogens also, just not as much as in incandescents, right? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From tomj at wps.com Tue Dec 14 00:23:05 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > Ah, the "Edison Effect". Some electrons (especially those > > closer to the negative side) would jump away from the filament > > and then, thanks to the electric field, land on the filament > > but closer to the anode. > > In a few bulbs, if the geometry is right, they will magically turn into > very low power magnetrons. EEK! Cool! electromagnetic whistles! I shudder to think how this effect was discovered... talk about heisenbugs! Imagine some poor microwave receiver person trying to find a loss of sensitivity, birdies, spurious output... and finding out it's some goddamn FRONT PANEL LIGHT BULB! Do you have any references to this? I have a friend who would appreciate such horrors... From Saquinn624 at aol.com Tue Dec 14 00:52:33 2004 From: Saquinn624 at aol.com (Saquinn624@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: copyright in US etc. Message-ID: (1) The copyright of a photograph is held by the photographer, hence, in this case, CNN (2) The first amendment ONLY APPLIES TO GOVERNMENT. For private property, trespass laws do apply, and unwanted press can be barred or removed. (3) There is no need to be rude. I fail to see how an attitude like that taken by Even can aid his career. Scott Quinn From news at computercollector.com Tue Dec 14 01:22:15 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: copyright in US etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041214072215.69302.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> Please see my off-forum reply. Your comment #3 is totally inappropriate for this list. --- Saquinn624@aol.com wrote: > (1) The copyright of a photograph is held by the photographer, hence, in this > > case, CNN > (2) The first amendment ONLY APPLIES TO GOVERNMENT. For private property, > trespass laws do apply, and unwanted press can be barred or removed. > (3) There is no need to be rude. I fail to see how an attitude like that > taken by Even can aid his career. > > Scott Quinn > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 600 readers and counting! From GOOI at oce.nl Tue Dec 14 01:43:15 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: KM11 Clone Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A0111340F@gd-mail03.oce.nl> > It's the RK11-C... there's a single slot facing the front of the rack > that I expect is where it goes. The RK11-D is a quad backplane > thingie that goes inside a BA-11 or some such (and the RKV11-D is a > version of it that fits in an external 4-slot enclosure with a set of > cables and a paddle card that go to a host's Qbus. > > I'd be interested to know what _other_ peripherals have a KM11 slot. > I personally want one to debug my RK11C (even though I am usually > using my RK05s with the aforementioned RKV11-D) just for the sake of > doing it. I do _have_ at least one RK11D that I could use for "real > work", but I'd like to get the -C working nonetheless. > > -ethan I read that the 11/40 CPU has 2 positions in its backplane for KM11's. In slot 1 (the first), position F the KM11 is used as a monitor for the KD11-A CPU and it allows to microstep the CPU instructions. When the KM11 is installed in slot 1, position E, the KM11 monitors KT11-D (the MMU), KE11-E (EIS optin) and KE11-F (FIS option). So, to go the full stretch you'd need 2 boards to watch everything in a PDP-11/35 (or /40), but I wonder if you'll ever need/do that ... except to see it once in actual operation :-) Note that DIGITAL writes that in normal operation the KM11 is *not* part of the system. - Henk, PA8PDP. From GOOI at oce.nl Tue Dec 14 02:52:59 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:21 2005 Subject: KM11 clone Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A01113412@gd-mail03.oce.nl> > OK, I just got a couple of board quotes with larger quantities. If I > can get an order of ~50 boards, I can drop the prices by $40! So the > pricing would be: > "Bare" Board $35 > "kit" (includes all the parts) $85 > assembled and tested $250 (I still don't want to) > > If I can get a preliminary count of folks who one (or two or...) I can > get the boards and parts ordered. I'd like to place the orders during > the first week of January. > -- > > TTFN - Guy Ok Guy, hold your breath ... I want 5 bare boards !! I assume that the bare board includes the overlays, instructions, etc. I am in The Netherlands, and assume that you will ship the boards in a US Priority Mail enveloppe, just as Vince did with the blinkenlight project (Core and I/O Board). You did not yet mention payment instructions; I guess PayPal is fine? - Henk, PA8PDP. www.pdp-11.nl From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Dec 14 03:02:04 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Cooking, fractions & reply attribution... (was: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 13 Dec 2004 16:50:42 EST." <5.1.0.14.2.20041213163934.0493c7a0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <200412140902.JAA06465@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Roger Merchberge said: > Dyslexia. There are a lot more kinds of it than just writing your letters > backwards (my type) -- I have two friends that *just can't spell*, and my > wife is LD in math; she can't handle decimals or fractions! Oh, guess who > has the most college degrees of the 4 people I just mentioned: my wife. > I suffer from a similar problem, I've never been able to do arithmetic in my head with any degree of certainty of getting the correct result. Also I have problems counting money, so what did I end up doing for a living? Wages :-) (But that was all computerised...and we weren't allowed to handle actual money!) I can juggle complex maths equations with no problem though...I just need a calculator to handle the actual numbers. > Some people's brains are just plain *wired funny* That's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it :-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 04:49:28 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: KM11 clone In-Reply-To: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A01113412@gd-mail03.oce.nl> References: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A01113412@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 09:52:59 +0100, Gooijen H wrote: > Ok Guy, hold your breath ... I want 5 bare boards !! > I assume that the bare board includes the overlays, instructions, etc. I don't mean to speak for Guy, but all I am expecting is the boards themselves, plus a parts list, plus a .pdf or something similar to print my own overlays (on clear laser-printer acetate). Guy... are my expectations reasonable? -ethan From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 05:57:32 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: KM11 clone In-Reply-To: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A01113412@gd-mail03.oce.nl> References: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A01113412@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 09:52:59 +0100, Gooijen H wrote: > Ok Guy, hold your breath ... I want 5 bare boards !! > I assume that the bare board includes the overlays, instructions, etc. I don't mean to speak for Guy, but all I am expecting is the boards themselves, plus a parts list, plus a .pdf or something similar to print my own overlays (on clear laser-printer acetate). Guy... are my expectations reasonable? -ethan From GOOI at oce.nl Tue Dec 14 05:59:10 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: KM11 clone Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A01113413@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Yep, a PDF file for the overlays would be OK for me. Saves shipping/handling. We can print the file(s) ourselves. What I wanted to say: I hope I will not have to search all documents on bitsavers to get the overlays. The parts list and an assembly instruction would be nice though. I hate to be surprised like "Ahh, I should have soldered that component afterwards...!^#%$ :-) - Henk. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks > Sent: dinsdag 14 december 2004 11:49 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: KM11 clone > > > On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 09:52:59 +0100, Gooijen H wrote: > > Ok Guy, hold your breath ... I want 5 bare boards !! > > I assume that the bare board includes the overlays, > instructions, etc. > > I don't mean to speak for Guy, but all I am expecting is the boards > themselves, plus a parts list, plus a .pdf or something similar to > print my own overlays (on clear laser-printer acetate). > > Guy... are my expectations reasonable? > > -ethan From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Dec 14 07:51:19 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: KM11 Clone In-Reply-To: <1102976794.5947.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20041214074955.04e3bfe0@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 02:26 PM 12/13/2004 -0800, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > > I've been working on creating a clone of DEC's maintenance panel > > (KM11) > > for some time now. I intended it to be used as my "hello world" board > > to get familiar with EagleCAD and the board fab process. > > > > On Friday my first boards arrived from the fab house. I spent this > > weekend building up 2 boards and both worked perfectly the first time. > > It was so cool to be able to single step the microcode in an 11/40! > > > > It's up on my web site > > (http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/boards/index.html) for those that > > want > > to see what it looks like. Sometime this week I'll take a picture of > > the 11/40 with 2 KM11's hanging out of it! > > > > My first batch of boards/parts has already been spoken for. But for > > any > > who are interested, I'll place another order for parts/boards for > > delivery sometime in January. > > > > Each board will come with complete schematics, parts list and assembly > > instructions. I will also have collected drawings for the overlays > > and > > instructions on use for the various processors (11/20, 11/05, 11/40, > > 11/45 and 11/70). > > > > I'm pricing as follows: > > "Bare" Board $75 > > "kit" (includes all the parts) $125 > > assembled and tested $250 (I really don't want to) > > >OK, I just got a couple of board quotes with larger quantities. If I >can get an order of ~50 boards, I can drop the prices by $40! So the >pricing would be: > "Bare" Board $35 > "kit" (includes all the parts) $85 > assembled and tested $250 (I still don't want to) > >If I can get a preliminary count of folks who want one (or two or ...) I >can get the boards and parts ordered. I'd like to place the orders >during the first week of January. >-- > >TTFN - Guy Nice looking board Guy! You might note to those who are interested that they will require a single width extender card to use the KM11... --tom From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Dec 14 09:08:59 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts References: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <1102672595.13275.7.camel@weka.localdomain> <16829.42838.146287.343249@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <41BE1FCB.nailD7N11BTIA@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <34369.64.139.41.130.1102980601.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: <16831.523.857735.81427@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Eric" == Eric Smith writes: Eric> Tim wrote: >> For not-so-heavy transformers, higher frequencies are desirable, >> thus the 400 Hz AC power on military aircraft. Eric> And civilian aircraft as well. When I flew from San Francisco Eric> to London in 2002, I had to make arrangements to use my CPAP Eric> machine. They were concerned because the machine is rated for Eric> 50 to 60 Hz. But it uses a switching power supply which is Eric> actually perfectly happy to run on 400 Hz, so I was able to use Eric> it. It's irritating that the manufacturer defines the rating Eric> based on what power they expect the user to have, rather than Eric> practical operational limits. Makes perfect sense. If you put it on the data sheet, you have to test it. Presumably it says 50 or 60 Hz because that was tested, while 400 Hz was not. Eric> Speaking of annoying specifications, I was just reading the Eric> manual for an HP logic analyzer circa the mid-1990s. They make Eric> a distinction between "specifications" and "characteristics", Eric> defining the former to be something they actually test the Eric> instrument against, and the latter to be non-tested and Eric> non-guaranteed. They list the maximum clock fequency and Eric> minimum clock pulse width as specifications. But they list the Eric> number of channels and the memory depth as "characteristics", Eric> which means that if the analyzer only had 67 channels instead Eric> of the "characteristic" 68, they could still claim that it met Eric> the specifications. In practice I'm sure they wouldn't try to Eric> screw customers on that point, and couldn't get away with it Eric> anyhow because the channel count and memory depth are Eric> prominently featured in the sales literature. But after they Eric> go to all the trouble of explaining a distinction between Eric> specifications and characteristics, it seems really bizarre Eric> that they would put the channel count in the latter category Eric> since it is clear that they do actually have to test them all. For that case, it looks like a typo. But electronic circuits often have properties that are established by design but not 100% tested. Look at an IC data sheet for example. Properties like input capacitance are often "characteristics" while rise time and max clock frequency are "specifications" that are tested for each chip. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Dec 14 09:29:37 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts References: <16830.7780.132770.266312@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <16831.1761.428569.83550@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Vintage" == Vintage Computer Festival writes: Vintage> On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, Paul Koning wrote: >> Interesting! That suggests that DC should be no big problem for >> halogen lamps (incandescents with iodine vapor fill). Vintage> How do you figure? There's still evaporation in halogens Vintage> also, just not as much as in incandescents, right? Halogen lamps have a negative feedback system: the tungsten that evaporates is carried back to the hot spots of the filament (which are the thin spots). That's why they last so much longer. The Edison effect says that the positive end gets hotter so it wears faster -- but the iodine says that the tungsten will be brought back predominantly to that end. So that (largely) cancels out. The other aspect, as Dwight Elvey pointed out, is that modern light bulbs are not vacuum. I don't know how halogen bulb pressures compare with "regular" ones -- they may well be higher. paul From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Dec 14 09:38:51 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Zitel card? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041214103851.0090a410@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone know anything about Zitel? Pr what bus this card uses or anything about the card? . I seem to remember that Zitel was a copy cat of Intel. Joe From vcf at siconic.com Tue Dec 14 11:08:16 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Stupid TI power supply Message-ID: So after beating the shit out of this stupid TI power supply (none of your suggestions worked, thanks) I come to find that it does have an internal fuse and that it is complete intact. Wonderful. This thing is shot beyond repair at this point. It wasn't intended to ever be opened apparently. Anyway, hopefully I can figure out what this pile of garbage was supposed to be putting out. Of course, there are no markings on the housing of the transformer. There is an IC in here. It's inline with the hot side of the input voltage. The markings are thusly: UMI EI X25 150(degree symbol)C 2.5A 250V~ A varistor? Anyway, this is a heap of junk now. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Tue Dec 14 11:19:50 2004 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: <01cb01c4dfad$4c56a6e0$ce4f0945@acme> References: <200412102258.OAA11621@clulw009.amd.com> <01cb01c4dfad$4c56a6e0$ce4f0945@acme> Message-ID: <41BF20B6.506@sbcglobal.net> Glen Goodwin wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dwight K. Elvey > >> Does anyone recall if the ZIP drives were on the floppy >>ports? If so, one could take a parallel ZIP dive and >>remove the drive part to connect a floppy drive. One >>still needs to create some software. > > > All of the internal ZIPs I've ever seen have been IDE. > > Later -- > > Glen > 0/0 There are also SCSI internal and external ZIP drives -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Dec 14 11:27:13 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Stupid TI power supply In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3ede421d4d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > UMI EI > X25 150(degree symbol)C > 2.5A 250V~ A thermal fuse, more specifically, a thermal fuse with a trip point of 150 degrees Celsius. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Are those cookies made with real Girl Scouts? From tpeters at mixcom.com Tue Dec 14 11:45:28 2004 From: tpeters at mixcom.com (Tom Peters) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Cooking, fractions & reply attribution... (was: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <200412132332.PAA13540@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041214114213.0b210a58@localhost> I absolutely positively cannot learn Morse code. I've tried for 12 years, since I got my tech (amateur radio) license. No method I've tried has worked. It remind me of how awful a student I was. Other people could study a subject and learn it. I had to construct elaborate "systems" for each test. I wrote an entire help file for the VMS help processor for Calculus II in college. That was the only way I passed Calc. Which brings me to today's joke: Just what is lysdexia, anyhow? At 03:32 PM 12/13/2004 -0800, you wrote: > >From: "Roger Merchberger" > > > >Dyslexia. There are a lot more kinds of it than just writing your letters > >backwards (my type) -- I have two friends that *just can't spell*, and my > >wife is LD in math; she can't handle decimals or fractions! Oh, guess who > >has the most college degrees of the 4 people I just mentioned: my wife. > > > >Some people's brains are just plain *wired funny* -- sometimes it's a good > >thing, sometimes it's not. > > > >Laterz, > >Roger "Merch" Merchberger > >Hi > When I was in grade school, I used to get B+'s on my >math test. The teacher told me to write down the intermediate >steps so that I could get more credit for partial solutions. >Up till then I'd been working the problems out in my head >and then just writing out the answer. > An interesting result happened. My intermediate work had >the same number or percentage of errors as my final results. >Of course, I still worked them in my head or the final results >would have been worse because of the cumulative effects. >This was one of the first indications that I was dyslexic >and not just lazy ( I was that as well ). I just made errors >in translating what was in my head to the paper. Later, I found >simple ways to check my results and got 100% on my test :) >Dwight [Fiction] "Dear Mrs., Mr., Miss, or Mr. and Mrs.: Words cannot express the deep personal grief I experienced when your husband, son, father or brother was killed, wounded or reported missing in action." --(_Catch-22_. Cathcart to the doctor's "widow.") --... ...-- -.. . -. ----. --.- --.- -... tpeters@nospam.mixcom.com (remove "nospam") N9QQB (amateur radio) "HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB ADDRESS http//www.mixweb.com/tpeters 43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square EN53wc WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, Cisco Certified CCNA From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Dec 14 12:08:24 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Stupid TI power supply Message-ID: <200412141808.KAA14070@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Sure sounds like a thermal limit switch. It could also be a Poly-Fuse. As for voltage of the transformer, if it is bad, one can still determine the ratio by cutting the wires off with a single cut per turn and then count the wires for the primary and secondary. One does have to watch out if there are taps, other than center tap. Dwight >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > > >So after beating the shit out of this stupid TI power supply (none of your >suggestions worked, thanks) I come to find that it does have an internal >fuse and that it is complete intact. Wonderful. This thing is shot >beyond repair at this point. It wasn't intended to ever be opened >apparently. > >Anyway, hopefully I can figure out what this pile of garbage was supposed >to be putting out. Of course, there are no markings on the housing of the >transformer. > >There is an IC in here. It's inline with the hot side of the input >voltage. The markings are thusly: > >UMI EI >X25 150(degree symbol)C >2.5A 250V~ > >A varistor? > >Anyway, this is a heap of junk now. > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Tue Dec 14 12:40:26 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <1102978625.17389.39.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1102978625.17389.39.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1103049626.2570.28.camel@fortran> On Mon, 2004-12-13 at 22:57 +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > I have a feeling that a lot of trams and trolleybuses over here at least > ran on DC, presumably for traction and speed control reasons. Whether > they were candidates for being supplied by a DC grid or whether rotary > converters were always used, I don't know. Norwegian trains run DC... I've seen a tagger actually climb up on the roof of a train, and before I could run to the veranda of my appartment to tell him to get the fuck down, the dumb fuck stood up. He illuminated the entire train exchange for a millisecond, and then all that was left of him was one of his feet, that apparently hadn't made contact with the grounded train roof. His charred remains were still burning 20 minutes later, until the firemen came and cleaned up the mess. By coincidence, two years later, I actually met the guy who was with him, on the ground, and I was infuriated to watch him make up a story about trying to run from a mob of violent security guards and this was happening by accident... -- Tore S Bekkedal From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Tue Dec 14 12:42:16 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <41BE1FCB.nailD7N11BTIA@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> References: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <1102672595.13275.7.camel@weka.localdomain> <16829.42838.146287.343249@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <41BE1FCB.nailD7N11BTIA@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <1103049736.2570.30.camel@fortran> On Mon, 2004-12-13 at 18:03 -0500, shoppa_classiccmp@trailing-edge.com wrote: > For not-so-heavy transformers, higher frequencies are desirable, thus > the 400 Hz AC power on military aircraft. > > The classic way of converting from AC at one frequency to another was > motor-generator sets, (And to convert AC to DC you used rotary > converters...) Modern implemenations use solid-state electronics. Twisting this back on topic, the IBM 650 had a power distribution that made something like 133Hz AC or even higher. -- Tore S Bekkedal From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Tue Dec 14 12:45:59 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: KM11 Clone In-Reply-To: <200412140153.iBE1rubq005816@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200412140153.iBE1rubq005816@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <1103049959.2570.33.camel@fortran> On Mon, 2004-12-13 at 20:53 -0500, Brad Parker wrote: > I have to plead ignorance. I've got an 11/34 and an 11/44 (doesn't everyone?) I don't, you insensitive clod! :) Microplug: (or is that, miniplug? :) Anyone have a VT100, or a PDP-11, or both, in Scandinavia, preferably Norway, they want hauled away, I'm there!!! -- Tore S Bekkedal From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Dec 14 13:15:56 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Domain Name Registration Message-ID: <200412141915.iBEJFu9l022441@onyx.spiritone.com> Who do people like to use for registering domain names? DNS hosting would be a plus. Zane From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Dec 14 13:16:05 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Zitel card? Message-ID: <200412141916.LAA14097@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Joe R." > > Does anyone know anything about Zitel? Pr what bus this card uses or >anything about the card? . I >seem to remember that Zitel was a copy cat of Intel. > > Joe It looks like 2 banks of 16 bit RAM with parity. As a RAM board, it shouldn't be too hard to trace out the address selects. What size RAMs are they? Dwight From tarsi at binhost.com Tue Dec 14 13:23:39 2004 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Nathan E. Pralle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Domain Name Registration In-Reply-To: <200412141915.iBEJFu9l022441@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200412141915.iBEJFu9l022441@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.1.20041214132328.031968f0@mail.binhost.com> I've used http://cheap-domainregistration.com/ for ages. Good stuff. Cheap. Nathan At 01:15 PM 12/14/04, you wrote: >Who do people like to use for registering domain names? DNS hosting would >be a plus. > > Zane ----------------------------- Maybe we met yesterday... www.nathanpralle.com ----------------------------- From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Tue Dec 14 13:26:09 2004 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Domain Name Registration In-Reply-To: <200412141915.iBEJFu9l022441@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: > Who do people like to use for registering domain names? DNS hosting would be a plus. I've used register4less.com for quite a while with no issues. I've also used godaddy.com which is significantly cheaper, but they try real hard to get you to "upgrade" to their premium services. Their registration process is a pain because you have to go through all their dumb prompts trying to get you to upgrade. But the price is right. I used to use granitecanyon.com for free DNS services, but their service became very unreliable all of a sudden. Now I use xname.org with no problems at all. I host 5 domains on my web server that are registered through register4less.com or godaddy.com and the DNS for all of them is from xname.org - Bob From lbickley at bickleywest.com Tue Dec 14 13:26:46 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Domain Name Registration In-Reply-To: <200412141915.iBEJFu9l022441@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200412141915.iBEJFu9l022441@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <200412141126.46195.lbickley@bickleywest.com> I have been using "registerfly.com" for all my secondary domain names - and they do provide DNS hosting. Seem to have good prices and you can control "everything" easily from a SSL enabled browser. Lyle On Tuesday 14 December 2004 11:15, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Who do people like to use for registering domain names? DNS hosting would > be a plus. > > Zane -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Dec 14 13:27:51 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts Message-ID: <0412141927.AA10167@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > Norwegian trains run DC... As do Russian electric trains. 4 kV. > I've seen a tagger actually climb up on the > roof of a train, and before I could run to the veranda of my appartment > to tell him to get the fuck down, the dumb fuck stood up. He illuminated > the entire train exchange for a millisecond, and then all that was left > of him was one of his feet, that apparently hadn't made contact with the > grounded train roof. His charred remains were still burning 20 minutes > later, until the firemen came and cleaned up the mess. Ouch. My dad told me a story of something similar happening in Russia with an unlucky railroad maintenance worker. Apparently the vertical spacing between the roof of a train car and the high voltage wire is high enough for workers to be able to walk on the roof under the wire and not touch it, even though it doesn't seem that high when looking from the ground. But that unlucky worker was carrying a wrench in his hand and had it stuck up in the air... When I was an intern on the Moscow railroad I witnessed another incident, this one fortunately without fatalities or human injuries, but demonstrating the power of that DC supply. On Russian and probably many other railroads the rails carry both the power current (return) and signaling current. The power current is DC, the signaling current is AC (at very low voltage of course, 6V). The track is divided into block-sections, each block-section monitored as a unit and reported as free or occupied to the rail traffic control system. Block-sections are separated by insulated rail joints. Each end of a thus isolated block-section is connected to a transformer whose other (higher voltage) winding is connected to a wire pair going back to the rail traffic control centre. Simple enough on diesel-powered railroads. It was a little more complicated on electrically powered railroads. The thick copper wires from the ends of each insulated joint were connected to transformer windings like before, with a separate transformer for each side of the insulated joint. The high-voltage windings were connected to signaling lines like before. But the low-voltage windings, the ones connected to the rails, were centre-tapped, and the centre tap from the transformer on one side of the insulated joint was connected with a thick copper wire to the centre tap on the other side. This way the DC power current effectively passes right through while the insulated joint acts as a barrier to the signaling AC current. The town where I lived and the railroad station on which I had my internship was on the end of a low-traffic branch of Moscow railroad. The station itself had electric centralisation, the term used in the Russian railroad technical documentation for the rail traffic control system at a station. The track stage between that station and the next, however, was unmonitored. What this means is that at the station the left and right rails had the low signaling AC voltage between them, but out on the stage the two rails were simply connected. Thus the last insulated joint at the station boundary had only one transformer box next to it, the ends of the winding connected to one side and the centre tap connected to the other side. Well, one fine day a track maintenance vehicle knocked that transformer box down, and it fell tumbling down into the ditch. Apparently the track maintenance workers didn't notice it and went on with their business. But the monitoring circuit was broken of course. Rail circuits are normally closed. An open rail circuit corresponds to a track section that is either busy (the train axles short the circuit and all the current goes through them rather than through the relay on the other end, so it reports as open) or broken (a rail broke under load or was removed by terrorists, etc). So when that transformer box got knocked down and the circuit broke, it just lit a red light on the panel in the rail traffic control room indicating a busy track section. We (the traffic controller lady and me-the-intern) noticed it and went to check it out, but the trains still had to go on schedule while a crew was dispatched to mount the transformer box back where it belongs. So we let one or two trains through, using the manual override button to override the track busy status. (The manual override buttons have seals on them that you have to break in cases like this when you have to use them, and LOTS of paperwork must be generated.) So we let those trains through. Now think what happened when the train crossed that insulated joint and continued on our side, our station being the end of the line. From what I understood when I was there, our end was not the one supplying train power, so when a train was on our side, its return current had to go through that insulated joint, i.e., through the transformer centre tap. With the transformer gone, where did the current go? Well, it arced right through the insulated joint and melted the ends of the rails. Pretty impressive. MS From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Dec 14 13:47:03 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Domain Name Registration In-Reply-To: <200412141915.iBEJFu9l022441@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041214144209.04fb9688@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Zane H. Healy may have mentioned these words: >Who do people like to use for registering domain names? DNS hosting would >be a plus. After NutworkContusions started giving me heartburn years ago, I went with dotster.com -- not the cheapest out there, but their web-based tools are fantastic (especially if you have a *lot* of domains to administer, like me) and I've *never* had problems xferring domains out. They're not greedy at all like NSI is. I have no idea about their DNS services - I've always had my own. Avoid "Domain Registry of America" like the plague -- they're even worse than NSI! HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Dec 14 13:47:22 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <1103049626.2570.28.camel@fortran> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > On Mon, 2004-12-13 at 22:57 +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > I have a feeling that a lot of trams and trolleybuses over here at least > > ran on DC, presumably for traction and speed control reasons. Whether > > they were candidates for being supplied by a DC grid or whether rotary > > converters were always used, I don't know. > > Norwegian trains run DC... I've seen a tagger actually climb up on the > roof of a train, and before I could run to the veranda of my appartment > to tell him to get the fuck down, the dumb fuck stood up. He illuminated > the entire train exchange for a millisecond, and then all that was left > of him was one of his feet, that apparently hadn't made contact with the > grounded train roof. His charred remains were still burning 20 minutes > later, until the firemen came and cleaned up the mess. > > By coincidence, two years later, I actually met the guy who was with > him, on the ground, and I was infuriated to watch him make up a story > about trying to run from a mob of violent security guards and this was > happening by accident... > > -- > Tore S Bekkedal > Gee, that sure brightened up my day... Peter Wallace From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Dec 14 13:54:31 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Domain Name Registration Message-ID: <0412141954.AA10231@ivan.Harhan.ORG> I use Network Solutions, because no matter how bad they suck, they still ARE the successor to the original SRI-NIC. (But then I have only one domain, registered in 2000 when you could still register a domain by sending a template to HOSTMASTER@INTERNIC.NET, and I will never register other domains because I still believe in the original doctrine of one physical organisation = one domain.) But I miss SRI-NIC soooooo bad! To bring this on topic: does anyone have a copy of the original SRI-NIC software, or at least have any idea about what it was like, what it did it run on, what was it written in, etc? I'm talking about the software that processed templates sent to HOSTMASTER@SRI-NIC, and even to HOSTMASTER@INTERNIC.NET as late as 2000, and maintained the original registry database in its original unique super-cool format with those NIC handles (like HARHAN-DOM, IFCTFVAX-HST, MS35906), provided the original WHOIS service, and generated HOSTS.TXT and the TLD zone files. The best hope that I see for Internet is the colonisation of Mars. The good thing about Mars is that the 30 min speed of light delay should prevent any possibility of our present rotten, corrupt, spam,porn-and-Weendoze-filled Internet extending to Mars, and on Mars we'll have a chance to start fresh from a clean slate. If I get there first I'm going to recreate the good old ARPA Internet there in its full glory, with TENEX and 4BSD hosts, open relays (we'll have to relay because interplanetary communication back to Earth and to elsewhere will have to be all store and forward, like the good old UUCP), SRI-NIC, HOSTS.TXT, no Yahoo, no AOL, no spam, no porn, no Weendoze lusers on DSL with dynamic IPs! A copy of the original SRI-NIC registry software would be very helpful. MS From wrm at ccii.co.za Mon Dec 13 00:20:46 2004 From: wrm at ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: "misc pc boards" found Message-ID: <20041213062046.11317.qmail@alpha.ccii.co.za> Hiya >Three boards which I expect are from an SwTPc. Each bears the SwTPc >logo somewhere in the component-side etch. Well, that's easy then :-) >One I feel sure is a CPU board. It bears many DIPs, all socketed (and >all sockets populated), a 7805 and four discrete transistors or similar >devices soldered in, and miscellanous two-terminal devices (resistors, >caps, a crystal, maybe some others I don't recognize). The "big chip" >is an MC6800P; I also see an HM46810P, an MC14411P, and a chip labeled >with the motorola logo and the text "SWTBUG 1.0" and a "7748" which I >imagine is a datecode. Everything else is in the 8- to 20-pin range. >On the card edge is a 50-pin single-row connector with slightly over >2.5 pins to the centimetre, with one pin space filled with plastic. Yup, it's a CPU all right. SS-50 bus. >Next to the SwTPc logo is the text "MP-M". I suspect the 7805s are >intended to have heatsinks which the board has been robbed of, probably >at the same time as the socketed chips were removed. This has a >card-edge connector apparently identical to that on the CPU board (just >above). Yup, memory board. >A board which I feel sure is memory. It's marked "MP-8M2" and has a >SPDT switch with the positions marked "WRT. PROTECT" and "NORMAL"; next >to one row of 8 DIPs is "UPPER 4K" and next to another is "LOWER 4K". >It also has two 7805s, each driving power to some of the chips - their >outputs aren't wired together. There is also a DIP bank of four >switches. Yup, more memory. The 30-pin card is an I/O card for the same box. The motherboard ran the SS-50 bus, plus a decoder to eight SS-30 I/O sites, mem mapped of course. http://www.retro.co.za/6809/documents/ct-apr81.pdf W From kruzicchris at hotmail.com Mon Dec 13 00:43:32 2004 From: kruzicchris at hotmail.com (chris kruzic) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Mathiputer info Message-ID: Greetings! I am an IT Director for a central Illinois school district and we recently uncovered a Mathiputer while going through old boxes of electronics equipment from the 70s and 80s. Do you have any info about the Mathiputer or even if the company is still in business? We want to tinker with it and give it to a teacher as a gift... and a joke. Thanks much, Chris Kruzic From Bob.Adamson at sli-institute.ac.uk Mon Dec 13 02:20:48 2004 From: Bob.Adamson at sli-institute.ac.uk (Bob Adamson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: value of PDP8e Message-ID: <7D7A68F7F09DAE40AE47E55F7F601D8B3BD7CC@SLISERVER21.sli-institute.ac.uk> Well I don't know about that!!. One just went on Ebay for ?2,075.00 for a pretty minimal machine!! See http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5145823337&rd=1 regards Bob Adamson > -----Original Message----- > From: Jay West [mailto:jwest@classiccmp.org] > Sent: 03 December 2004 20:16 > To: Heinz Wolter; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: value of PDP8e > > Yup, I was going to say roughly $1500, if you're looking for ebay > standards. > > Jay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heinz Wolter" > To: > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 1:39 PM > Subject: value of PDP8e > > > >I acquired a PDP8e (sn M40000521)as part of a trade, which has not yet > been > > completed. > > Anyone know what value such a unit might have? It's got a blue bezel > > instead of the usual orange, but it on a 19 slide enclosure. Does this > > make > > it > > an 'industrial' ? I'm not looking to sell it (maybe after the deal is > > settled) but > > I'd like to know how to valuate it. I did see some pristine, working > units > > on epay - the top one going for 2300$USD in a silly bid war. But a > > realistic > > price may be more like 1500$USD, I'm told. The machine is in 'new' shape > > and working, has the tty interface card and cabling. core ( dunno how > > much). > > Thanks to all who reply, > > Heinz > > > > > > > > > From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Mon Dec 13 10:47:31 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (gordonjcp@gjcp.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <16829.42838.146287.343249@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <1102672595.13275.7.camel@weka.localdomain> <16829.42838.146287.343249@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <43029.195.212.29.75.1102956451.squirrel@195.212.29.75> > I don't actually know where 50 and 60 Hz came from, nor 100 and 115 > and 220 and 240 volts. There may be some ancient justification in the > tinkerings of various 19th century engineers, but it seems to me it > makes most sense simply to view them as random numbers. > > paul With a simple two-pole machine, 50Hz is acheived at 1,500rpm which is a nice round(-ish) number. Obviously a six-pole machine will produce a 50Hz three-phase supply at the same speed, and 60Hz at 1,800rpm. Now, 1,500rpm is quite a good speed for steam engines and the like, and it's possible to make direct-drive hydroelectric turbines that run at that speed, very efficiently. Gordon. From xiaohancs at 163.com Tue Dec 14 07:35:14 2004 From: xiaohancs at 163.com (D.P.-Han) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: about iSBC 86/30 single board computer Message-ID: <200412141353.iBEDrIjd085528@huey.classiccmp.org> Dear sir, There is a message on http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-January/008285.html I am wondering whether it is still effctive or not.Now I am eager for iSBC 86/30 single board computer hardware reference manual.So can you be so kind to give me a reply? Yours sincerely ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡ D.P.-Han ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡ xiaohancs@163.com ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡ 2004-12-14 From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Tue Dec 14 07:40:49 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (gordonjcp@gjcp.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <23094.195.212.29.83.1103031649.squirrel@195.212.29.83> > On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, William Donzelli wrote: >> In a few bulbs, if the geometry is right, they will magically turn into >> very low power magnetrons. > > EEK! Cool! electromagnetic whistles! > > I shudder to think how this effect was discovered... talk about > heisenbugs! Imagine some poor microwave receiver person trying > to find a loss of sensitivity, birdies, spurious output... and > finding out it's some goddamn FRONT PANEL LIGHT BULB! ... which would, of course, magically cure itself when you approached the unit, because the capacitance from the bulb to your hand would kill the oscillations. Gordon. From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Tue Dec 14 12:39:22 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (gordonjcp@gjcp.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Stupid TI power supply In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51934.195.212.29.67.1103049562.squirrel@195.212.29.67> > Anyway, hopefully I can figure out what this pile of garbage was supposed > to be putting out. Of course, there are no markings on the housing of the > transformer. How about looking at the PSU input circuitry? Gordon JC Pearce. From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Tue Dec 14 14:11:04 2004 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: DEC computer related injury Message-ID: Pulled out the drawer in the expansion chassis on our PDP-11/70 and then attempted to squat down behind it. Since I have such great balance I fell forward and leaned into/onto the PDP-11/70 backplane and punctured my palm many times with the nice little wire wrap pins. Interesting pattern, very little blood, I thought of a tattoo. Pins are nicely tipped with pyramid suitable for puncturing skin. No worry in those days about any infections since I was young an invincible. Maybe a slight variation on an old adage: Blood, sweat and tears must be shed for the computer to compute correctly. Mike From bob at jfcl.com Tue Dec 14 14:16:15 2004 From: bob at jfcl.com (Robert Armstrong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Off the wall CGA monitor question Message-ID: <000101c4e219$c38d8cb0$f402010a@gizmo> Can anybody tell me if a "proper" (i.e. true IBM compatible) CGA (CGA, not MDA, EGA or VGA) monitor had a male or female connector? I know it had a DB-9 with approximately this pinout 1,2 Ground 3 Red 4 Green 5 Blue 6 Intensify 7 N/C 8 Hsync 9 Vsync All signals are TTL and active high, as I remember. Anybody in the SF Bay Area got a real CGA monitor that they don't want anymore? Thanks, Bob Armstrong From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Dec 14 14:24:53 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Domain Name Registration In-Reply-To: <0412141954.AA10231@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0412141954.AA10231@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <52517.64.139.41.130.1103055893.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Michael Sokolov wrote: > I use Network Solutions, because no matter how bad they suck, they still > ARE the successor to the original SRI-NIC. Not really. Network Solutions no longer operates the registry, which has now actually been split up amongst several registry operators. Verisign operates the .com registry, Public Interest Registry operates the .org registry, Neulevel operates .biz, Afilias operates .name, etc. The registry operators are the successors of the original SRI-NIC. None of them sell domains directly to the public; instead you have to buy them from a registrar, or a reseller associated with a registrar. Network Solutions is now just another registrar, on equal footing with OpenSRS/Tucows, Dotster, 007Names, and a zillion others. When you buy a .com domain from any of the registrars, $6 of the fee goes to Verisign. And $0.25 goes to ICANN. If you feel like giving $35 to the scum-sucking $*&# at Network Solutions when $10 or less given to another registrar will actually get you better service, you're part of the reason Network Solutions can get away with continuing to offer such terrible service. The Verisign people are also a bunch of &#*#s IMNSHO, but if you want to register a .com domain there is no way to avoid $6 of your fee going to them. And ICANN are also a bunch of @#$%s. This was nowhere so evident as when they eliminated the at-large membership representation on their board of directors with the claim that the change would make the organization more accountable. Maybe if we're lucky their contract with the U.S. Commerce Department won't be renewed. Eric From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Dec 14 14:24:44 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Mathiputer info In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041214142213.052f4e70@pc> At 12:43 AM 12/13/2004, you wrote: >I am an IT Director for a central Illinois school district and we recently uncovered a Mathiputer while going through old boxes of electronics equipment from the 70s and 80s. Do you have any info about the Mathiputer or even if the company is still in business? We want to tinker with it and give it to a teacher as a gift... and a joke. There's a picture at the bottom of http://www.gateman.com/museum/v.html . Is that what yours looks like? It was previously mentioned on the list in May 2003: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-May/014748.html A mailing list of classic computer collectors will probably help you identify what it is, but they're not going to encourage you to give it to someone as a joke... they'll want to see it preserved and given to a good home... - John From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Dec 14 14:26:37 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts References: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <1102672595.13275.7.camel@weka.localdomain> <16829.42838.146287.343249@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <41BE1FCB.nailD7N11BTIA@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <1103049736.2570.30.camel@fortran> Message-ID: <16831.19581.613431.224192@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tore" == Tore S Bekkedal writes: Tore> On Mon, 2004-12-13 at 18:03 -0500, Tore> shoppa_classiccmp@trailing-edge.com wrote: >> For not-so-heavy transformers, higher frequencies are desirable, >> thus the 400 Hz AC power on military aircraft. >> >> The classic way of converting from AC at one frequency to another >> was motor-generator sets, (And to convert AC to DC you used rotary >> converters...) Modern implemenations use solid-state electronics. Tore> Twisting this back on topic, the IBM 650 had a power Tore> distribution that made something like 133Hz AC or even higher. Similarly, CDC mainframes (6600 and friends) used 400 Hz power, from motor-generator sets. paul From sethm at loomcom.com Tue Dec 14 14:40:14 2004 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: DEC computer related injury In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041214204014.GA6829@loomcom.com> On Tue, Dec 14, 2004 at 02:11:04PM -0600, McFadden, Mike wrote: [...] > Maybe a slight variation on an old adage: Blood, sweat and tears must be > shed for the computer to compute correctly. Ouch! It wasn't so very long ago that I would rarely go diving around the insides of any computer without drawing blood -- I mean, nothing major, just a scrape deep enough to raise a little redness every time, almost without fail. I began to believe that blood sacrifice was required when opening a computer case or chassis. It's something like a Samurai's sword; once it's unsheathed, it must taste blood! Of course, now-a-days, with these fancy newfangled PC cases that snap apart without screws and have easy fold-down sides, blood drawing is exceptionally rare. I won't say that I mind, really, but whenever I think about scraping up my hands, I get a little nostalgic for my early computer days. > Mike -Seth -- "It looks just like a Telefunken U47! Seth Morabito You'll love it." - Frank Zappa sethm@loomcom.com From spc at conman.org Tue Dec 14 14:52:55 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Domain Name Registration In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041214144209.04fb9688@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Dec 14, 2004 02:47:03 PM Message-ID: <20041214205255.B0C8E73029@linus.groomlake.area51> It was thus said that the Great Roger Merchberger once stated: > > Rumor has it that Zane H. Healy may have mentioned these words: > > >Who do people like to use for registering domain names? DNS hosting would > >be a plus. > > After NutworkContusions started giving me heartburn years ago, I went with > dotster.com -- not the cheapest out there, but their web-based tools are > fantastic (especially if you have a *lot* of domains to administer, like > me) and I've *never* had problems xferring domains out. They're not greedy > at all like NSI is. I also use Dotster and have no complaints about them, and yes, managing multiple domains is quite easy with them. I also host my own DNS, website and email do I can't say anthing about their non-registrar offerings. -spc (Price wise, they are about mid-ranged ... ) From gsutton9503 at wavecable.com Tue Dec 14 15:12:11 2004 From: gsutton9503 at wavecable.com (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Off the wall CGA monitor question In-Reply-To: <000101c4e219$c38d8cb0$f402010a@gizmo> References: <000101c4e219$c38d8cb0$f402010a@gizmo> Message-ID: <41BF572B.7010301@wavecable.com> Robert Armstrong wrote: > > Can anybody tell me if a "proper" (i.e. true IBM compatible) CGA (CGA, not >MDA, EGA or VGA) monitor had a male or female connector? > > All of the CGA cards that I can recall seeing had female connectors, so most likely, the monitors have male connectors. From tomj at wps.com Tue Dec 14 15:36:51 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Stupid TI power supply In-Reply-To: <200412141808.KAA14070@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200412141808.KAA14070@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: What was the model of this silent700? I have one at home, working, and can put a VM on the P.S. for you, assuming it's the same and all that. Markings on transformer cube? terminal model number? From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Dec 14 15:39:23 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Off the wall CGA monitor question In-Reply-To: <41BF572B.7010301@wavecable.com> References: <000101c4e219$c38d8cb0$f402010a@gizmo> <41BF572B.7010301@wavecable.com> Message-ID: <60362.64.139.41.130.1103060363.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Scarletdown wrote: > All of the CGA cards that I can recall seeing had female connectors, so > most likely, the monitors have male connectors. That only implies that the *cable* has a male connector on one end; it doesn't really tell you anything about the monitor. I'd be inclined to expect that most CGI monitors either had a captive cable, or had a female connector on the monitor as well. But it's been so long since I looked at CGI monitors that I don't recall. Eric From tomj at wps.com Tue Dec 14 15:39:39 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Domain Name Registration In-Reply-To: <200412141915.iBEJFu9l022441@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200412141915.iBEJFu9l022441@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Who do people like to use for registering domain names? DNS hosting would > be a plus. I use horrible old internic I mean netsol i mean veri$ign. Not because I like them, but because they seem least-likely to go out of business on me. From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue Dec 14 15:35:40 2004 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Off the wall CGA monitor question Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E501EAEF3B@mail10.congressfinancial.com> Any of the CGA monitors I have at home have a captive cable with, IIRC, a female DB9. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Eric Smith Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 4:39 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Off the wall CGA monitor question Scarletdown wrote: > All of the CGA cards that I can recall seeing had female connectors, so > most likely, the monitors have male connectors. That only implies that the *cable* has a male connector on one end; it doesn't really tell you anything about the monitor. I'd be inclined to expect that most CGI monitors either had a captive cable, or had a female connector on the monitor as well. But it's been so long since I looked at CGI monitors that I don't recall. Eric From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue Dec 14 15:48:14 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Off the wall CGA monitor question In-Reply-To: <60362.64.139.41.130.1103060363.squirrel@64.139.41.130> References: <000101c4e219$c38d8cb0$f402010a@gizmo> <41BF572B.7010301@wavecable.com> <60362.64.139.41.130.1103060363.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: <200412141648.14324.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Tuesday 14 December 2004 16:39, Eric Smith wrote: > Scarletdown wrote: > > All of the CGA cards that I can recall seeing had female > > connectors, so most likely, the monitors have male connectors. > > That only implies that the *cable* has a male connector on one end; > it doesn't really tell you anything about the monitor. > > I'd be inclined to expect that most CGI monitors either had a captive > cable, or had a female connector on the monitor as well. But it's > been so long since I looked at CGI monitors that I don't recall. The cables (both data and power) are captive. And yes, there's a male DE9 on the data cable from the monitor. I've got one sitting on a shelf at home, which I grabbed because I never had an authentic CGA monitor. :) Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From tomj at wps.com Tue Dec 14 15:52:00 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <23094.195.212.29.83.1103031649.squirrel@195.212.29.83> References: <23094.195.212.29.83.1103031649.squirrel@195.212.29.83> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 gordonjcp@gjcp.net wrote: > > On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > >> In a few bulbs, if the geometry is right, they will magically turn into > >> very low power magnetrons. > > > > EEK! Cool! electromagnetic whistles! > > > > I shudder to think how this effect was discovered... talk about > > heisenbugs! Imagine some poor microwave receiver person trying > > to find a loss of sensitivity, birdies, spurious output... and > > finding out it's some goddamn FRONT PANEL LIGHT BULB! > > ... which would, of course, magically cure itself when you approached the > unit, because the capacitance from the bulb to your hand would kill the > oscillations. The stuff nightmares (and careers) are made of... One of the worst heisenbugs I can recall was a tape drive (unknown manu) on the Nova 1200 development system at Ocean Research Equip., late 1970's. Just an ordinary drive, somewhat low in the rack. It would "randomly" fail, tape went slack, but only in the afternoon. The heisenbug aspect was: it would work fine when you were standing in front of it. If you walked away, slack tape. The problem was found when we determined it worked also, in the afternoon, unattended, with it's smoked plexi door closed, which was always left open because it was annoying to open and close all the time. Turns out it was a ray of afternoon sun beaming in the window directly into the tape-in-place sensor near the head/capstan area. From tomj at wps.com Tue Dec 14 15:56:08 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Domain Name Registration In-Reply-To: <52517.64.139.41.130.1103055893.squirrel@64.139.41.130> References: <0412141954.AA10231@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <52517.64.139.41.130.1103055893.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Eric Smith wrote: > If you feel like giving $35 to the scum-sucking $*&# at Network Solutions > when $10 or less given to another registrar will actually get you better > service, you're part of the reason Network Solutions can get away with > continuing to offer such terrible service. > > The Verisign people are also a bunch of &#*#s IMNSHO, but if you want > to register a .com domain there is no way to avoid $6 of your fee going > to them. Netsol/Verisign and ICANN are merciless shits. As I see it, we're little monkeys, and down on the ground are big jaguars that like to eat us. It's completely unfair, but I don't want to die, so I stay as much as I can in the trees. Plus, I'd lose my worthless but ancient NIC handle, TJ55. From Pres at macro-inc.com Tue Dec 14 15:49:27 2004 From: Pres at macro-inc.com (Ed Kelleher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:22 2005 Subject: Off the wall CGA monitor question In-Reply-To: <000101c4e219$c38d8cb0$f402010a@gizmo> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041214164841.0267fb40@192.168.0.1> At 03:16 PM 12/14/2004, you wrote: > Can anybody tell me if a "proper" (i.e. true IBM compatible) CGA (CGA, not >MDA, EGA or VGA) monitor had a male or female connector? EGA and CGA cards I have, have DB9 female connectors on them. Ed K. From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Dec 14 16:16:22 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700 power supplies Message-ID: <0412142216.AA10566@ivan.Harhan.ORG> OK, I've just looked at mine, and all of my terminals and all of my power wallwarts for them are clearly marked 20 VAC (1.8 A, 35 W marking on the terminals, 37 VA marking on the wallwarts). Plugging one of the wallwarts into the wall and measuring with a voltmeter showed 24 VAC under no load. I guess it's supposed to sink a little under load. Since it's so clearly marked, why was this a mystery in the first place? What is a little more of a mystery, however, is that the terminals have compartments that seem like they are for batteries, but upon opening them one sees no place to put in standard batteries, but instead some little wierd connectors on short wire pigtails, obviously for some proprietary battery packs. Does anyone have any info on those battery packs? They were rechargeable and charged when the terminal is plugged into AC power, weren't they? I'm guessing that from the fact that they were special battery packs and not standard batteries one buys replacements for at a supermarket or gas station. MS From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Dec 14 16:17:43 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: Domain Name Registration In-Reply-To: <200412141126.46195.lbickley@bickleywest.com> from "Lyle Bickley" at Dec 14, 2004 11:26:46 AM Message-ID: <200412142217.iBEMHiWx028500@onyx.spiritone.com> Well, I opted for godaddy.com and I've got DNS pointed at my server, though the MX record is still pointed at thier stuff. I'll have to do a little reading before I try to make any changes to that, as I'll have to update the configuration on my VMS server. I must say, I'm very happy to finally get avanthar.com :^) Zane From gordon at gjcp.net Tue Dec 14 16:30:11 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: References: <23094.195.212.29.83.1103031649.squirrel@195.212.29.83> Message-ID: <41BF6973.6060502@gjcp.net> Tom Jennings wrote: > One of the worst heisenbugs I can recall was a tape drive > (unknown manu) on the Nova 1200 development system at Ocean > Research Equip., late 1970's. Just an ordinary drive, somewhat > low in the rack. It would "randomly" fail, tape went slack, > but only in the afternoon. > > The heisenbug aspect was: it would work fine when you were > standing in front of it. If you walked away, slack tape. > > The problem was found when we determined it worked also, in > the afternoon, unattended, with it's smoked plexi door closed, > which was always left open because it was annoying to open and > close all the time. Turns out it was a ray of afternoon sun > beaming in the window directly into the tape-in-place sensor > near the head/capstan area. > Many years ago (oh, ok, about 20) when I was not even yet a spotty teenage geek, I was playing about trying to coax some life from an old valve radio. Poking about with high-impedance headphones suggested that the problem was in the final stage of the audio amp. It would play quietly, getting fainter, until eventually there was nothing... So, I figured I should be seeing about -6 volts on the control grid wit respect to the cathode. Whip out my Dad's AVO 8, apply red croc clip to the cathode pin, apply black croc clip to the grid and *DAMN THAT WAS LOUD*!!! Reduce volume to a sensible level, shrug, and listen to the radio - took a lot longer to get faint, as I bumped the volume up and up, but eventually it faded completely. Volume to minimum, probe grid pin, slowly increase volume, worked for a few minutes more. Hmm. Consult rough sketch of the circuit around the output amp that I'd drawn. What was this funny 1M resistor from the grid to ground? And why was it reading damn near open? Of course, the grid leak resistor, without which the control grid would build up enough negative charge to cut off the valve completely... Gordon. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Dec 14 16:28:14 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: Domain Name Registration In-Reply-To: References: <200412141915.iBEJFu9l022441@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <34767.64.139.41.130.1103063294.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Tom Jennings wrote: > I use horrible old internic I mean netsol i mean veri$ign. Not > because I like them, but because they seem least-likely to go > out of business on me. Network Solutions != Verisign. At one time Network Solutions was both the registry operator and a registrar. Verisign bought them. Then Verisign spun the registrar operations back of as an independent Network Solutions again. So you can't avoid Verisign, at least for .com and a few other TLDs, though you don't deal with them directly. But you can and should avoid Network Solutions. I don't think there's any reason to believe that Network Solutions is any more stable and permanent than any other registrar. If Network Solutions went under (please!), it would only be a minor inconvenience to the people who have registered through them. Under those conditions, I think it's a fairly safe bet that the registry operator would temporarily defer imminent expirations of domains registered through that registrar in order to avoid problems with the resulting large volume of domain transfers. Since the registry operator is inherently a monopoly, that's the point of failure I'd worry about. If your registrar (such as Network Solutions) goes under, you can transfer your domain to another registrar. But if the registry operator (such as Verisign) goes under, we're all screwed. In practice your domain wouldn't go away immediately, because only the registry operator can tell the TLD name server to drop your domain. In this unlikely event, ICANN and/or the U.S. Commerce Department would select a new registry operator to replace the failed one. They would probably pick one of the existing registy operators for other TLDs, since that would minimize the disruption to the whole system. I'm a bit biased, but I don't think there's any good reason to have domains registered through Network Solutions, and there are many good reasons not to. For those that may be confused by the terminology: TLD: Top-level domain. There are gTLDs and ccTLDs. gTDL: Generic top-level domain. Not country-specific. Originally they all were three-character abbreviations, but now some are longer. Examples are .com, .org, .net, .info, .name, .museum, .biz, .int, etc. ccTLD: Country-code TLDs, under control of specific country. Examples are .us (United States), .ca (Canada), .uk (United Kingdom), .de (Germany), .fr (France), etc. registry operator: The entity that maintains the actual registry (database) and generates the updates to the zone files that are served by the TLD zone servers (one step down from the root DNS servers). The registry operators usually do not sell directly to the public, and may even be contractually obligated to not do so. It is *VERY* difficult to set up a new registry, as ICANN must approve a new TLD, and choose you to run it. Requires Really Big Bucks (tm), lots of political pull, and knowing what to kiss and when. Verisign is the registry operator for the .com and .net gTLDs, and the .cc and .tv ccTLDs. registrar: An entity that contracts with the registry operator to sell domains (and renewals) to resellers and/or the public. Fairly high entry barrier, requires moderately big bucks, bonding, etc., but fundamentally anyone meeting the requirements can do it. Examples: OpenSRS/Tucows, Network Solutions reseller: An entity that contracts with a registrar to purchase domain service at a wholesale rate and resell to the public. Anyone can do this with a simple contract; there exist registrars that only require a $500 commitment up front; maybe some require even less. Most ISPs are also domain resellers. Eric From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Dec 14 16:32:05 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <1103049736.2570.30.camel@fortran> References: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <1102672595.13275.7.camel@weka.localdomain> <16829.42838.146287.343249@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <41BE1FCB.nailD7N11BTIA@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <1103049736.2570.30.camel@fortran> Message-ID: <20041214233205.0254d9c1.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:42:16 +0100 Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > > For not-so-heavy transformers, higher frequencies are desirable, > > thus the 400 Hz AC power on military aircraft. > > The classic way of converting from AC at one frequency to another > > was motor-generator sets, (And to convert AC to DC you used rotary > > converters...) Modern implemenations use solid-state electronics. > Twisting this back on topic, the IBM 650 had a power distribution that > made something like 133Hz AC or even higher. Reminds me. The CDC Cyber 960 from http://www.cray-cyber.org/ runs at 400 Hz. The higher frequency allows smaller transformers. As this is three phase you can get DC quite easy and efficient with a six pulse rectifier. I was toled that the PSUs have no regulation. The machine is build from ECL. ECL has a constant current consumtion, in oposite to TTL or CMOS. So all you need for a PSU is a six pulse rectifier and a smoothing capacitor. The voltage drop caused by the PSU load is compensated by a slightly higher PSU output voltage. Simple, efficient and elegant. The 400 Hz three phase current is generated by a motor-generator. The rotating mass of this machine is enough to keep the Cyber running for some seconds. (Power consumption of the Cyber at minimal configuration is around 20 kW.) Enough to start a big diesel generator in case of a power outage. (They don't have a diesel at the cray-cyber basement, but it was usual at "regular" installations.) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Dec 14 16:39:41 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: Domain Name Registration References: <200412141915.iBEJFu9l022441@onyx.spiritone.com> <34767.64.139.41.130.1103063294.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: <16831.27565.495679.551521@gargle.gargle.HOWL> I've been using dyndns.org. For the moment, not for a domain name, just using a hostname under dyndns.org. (Nice -- it's free.) But they offer domain names registration too, I believe, along with the dynamic address support so you can have a name even though you don't have a static address. I believe they mentioned supporting .aero as a TLD -- I've been tempted by the hack value of that one, though they are rather pricy. paul From tomj at wps.com Tue Dec 14 16:44:43 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <41BF6973.6060502@gjcp.net> References: <23094.195.212.29.83.1103031649.squirrel@195.212.29.83> <41BF6973.6060502@gjcp.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > Consult rough sketch of the circuit around the output amp that I'd drawn. > What was this funny 1M resistor from the grid to ground? And why was it > reading damn near open? Of course, the grid leak resistor, without which the > control grid would build up enough negative charge to cut off the valve > completely... A non-subtle reminder of where those names come from! Leak indeed... You could have just left the VM on it :-) From anheier at owt.com Tue Dec 14 14:59:22 2004 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm and Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: Looking for an Intel C4040 processor Message-ID: <07D38768-4E13-11D9-84C9-0050E4E0C16B@owt.com> Anyone have an Intel C4040 processor that they would be interested in trade or selling??? Thanks Norm From gordon at gjcp.net Tue Dec 14 16:55:13 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: References: <23094.195.212.29.83.1103031649.squirrel@195.212.29.83> <41BF6973.6060502@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <41BF6F51.5060109@gjcp.net> Tom Jennings wrote: > > You could have just left the VM on it :-) > I did but my Dad wanted it back after a while... Gordon. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Dec 14 16:54:59 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: Domain Name Registration In-Reply-To: <16831.27565.495679.551521@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <200412141915.iBEJFu9l022441@onyx.spiritone.com> <34767.64.139.41.130.1103063294.squirrel@64.139.41.130> <16831.27565.495679.551521@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <37159.64.139.41.130.1103064899.squirrel@64.139.41.130> > I believe they mentioned supporting .aero as a TLD -- I've been > tempted by the hack value of that one, though they are rather pricy. I think that there should be a ".hacker" TLD. Except that in practice it would be full of "l33t" bozos rather than true hackers. So it's probably for the best that there isn't one. From tomj at wps.com Tue Dec 14 16:55:10 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: Domain Name Registration In-Reply-To: <34767.64.139.41.130.1103063294.squirrel@64.139.41.130> References: <200412141915.iBEJFu9l022441@onyx.spiritone.com> <34767.64.139.41.130.1103063294.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Eric Smith wrote: > Network Solutions != Verisign. Yar, I was being typographically lazy. > this unlikely event, ICANN and/or the U.S. Commerce Department would > select a new registry operator to replace the failed one. They would > probably pick one of the existing registy operators for other TLDs, since > that would minimize the disruption to the whole system. Probably true. Some of my domains are old (1993) so a lot of inertia is involved. I'd have to DO something! On the other side of it is, there's not a lot of value in any registrar, any reason to pisitively LIKE them, it's not like they do anything FOR me except take my money (and pass that nice referral to the roots :-) (OK zone servers but I still think of them as roots) so inertia has been winning. I was in the biz until 1996, I did thousands of DNS zones, SWIP, wrote code, handled in-addrs, etc, now I want someone else to do all the work. (I might even have copies of the old COM NET ORG etc files you used to download from rs.internic.net. I shudder at all the domains we could have reg'ed and sold for hard cash... that just Wasn't Done then. Some did, I know one person who made millions off nothin' but domregs.) When I managed a worldwide portfolio of domregs (20 or 30) for a business (keen.com) I foisted it off on some pros in NY that did that; True Names? Something Names, I forget. Total pros. They charged for this! But they handled in-country requirements, currency/schedule conversions, had legal beagles for weird issues, and knew the ins and outs of all the trickery. It's all gotten so complicated. From tomj at wps.com Tue Dec 14 16:57:23 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 voltsZ In-Reply-To: <20041214233205.0254d9c1.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <1102672595.13275.7.camel@weka.localdomain> <16829.42838.146287.343249@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <41BE1FCB.nailD7N11BTIA@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <1103049736.2570.30.camel@fortran> <20041214233205.0254d9c1.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Jochen Kunz wrote: > The 400 Hz three phase current is generated by a motor-generator. The > rotating mass of this machine is enough to keep the Cyber running for > some seconds. That detail alone justifies it all; simple physics (well, a lot of iron and copper) makes for a reliable UPS for the diesel switchover. I don't think APC makes one that size :-) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Dec 14 16:35:31 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: Zitel card? In-Reply-To: <200412141916.LAA14097@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041214173531.00961ca0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:16 AM 12/14/04 -0800, you wrote: > >>From: "Joe R." >> >> Does anyone know anything about Zitel? Pr what bus this card uses or >>anything about the card? . I >>seem to remember that Zitel was a copy cat of Intel. >> >> Joe > > It looks like 2 banks of 16 bit RAM with parity. As a RAM >board, it shouldn't be too hard to trace out the address >selects. > What size RAMs are they? Oops! Sorry I meant to include that and forgot. The RAMS are MM 5280Js. I think they're 4k x 1 SRAMs. That would make it two banks of 4k x 17 bits. I'm not worried about tracing out the pinout since it doesn't look like anything I can use (except for parts). I was more curious about Zitel and what bus this might be. Joe >Dwight > > > From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Dec 14 17:04:59 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: Looking for an Intel C4040 processor Message-ID: <200412142304.PAA14253@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Norm and Beth Anheier" > >Anyone have an Intel C4040 processor that they would be interested in >trade or selling??? > >Thanks Norm > > Hi I don't think I ever saw a ceramic 4040? Dwight From spectre at floodgap.com Tue Dec 14 17:26:06 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: Domain Name Registration In-Reply-To: <34767.64.139.41.130.1103063294.squirrel@64.139.41.130> from Eric Smith at "Dec 14, 4 02:28:14 pm" Message-ID: <200412142326.PAA52938@floodgap.com> > So you can't avoid Verisign, at least for .com and a few other TLDs, > though you don't deal with them directly. But you can and should avoid > Network Solutions. I don't think there's any reason to believe that > Network Solutions is any more stable and permanent than any other > registrar. As someone registered with Network Solutions ... I agree. Mine was more historical, as the registrar I was originally with got bought out. I have not been pleased with NetSol's customer service, but it would be an inconvenience to pull up stumps at the moment, and at least things work. However, I would not buy from them again. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- You told me to get a life. May I take yours? -- "Scream V" ----------------- From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Dec 14 17:06:13 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC In-Reply-To: Steve Thatcher "Re: 5-1/4' drive on modern PC" (Dec 13, 6:21) References: <10023882.1102936879692.JavaMail.root@louie.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <10412142306.ZM12304@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 13 2004, 6:21, Steve Thatcher wrote: > the one floppy deal is not really a bios issue, it is a hardware > issue. As long as there are two drive select lines coming from the > hardware, then the mb can supprt two drives even if there is not bios > support. My ASUS P4 mb only supports one drive and I suspect that > there is only one drive select. Bios code is meant to support the > hardware that is present. At least that is the way is has been for 23 > years... That's like mine. The motherboard only has one drive select line, so the BIOS normally shows only one entry for a floppy. However, if I disable the on-board FDC and add a normal FDC card, I can use two floppies and the BIOS detects and shows settings for both. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Dec 14 17:14:34 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: Domain Name Registration Message-ID: <200412142314.PAA14257@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Tom Jennings" ---snip--- > > >(I might even have copies of the old COM NET ORG etc files >you used to download from rs.internic.net. I shudder at all >the domains we could have reg'ed and sold for hard cash... >that just Wasn't Done then. Some did, I know one person who >made millions off nothin' but domregs.) His name might be Marcelo. Dwight From melamy at earthlink.net Tue Dec 14 17:19:01 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: Looking for an Intel C4040 processor In-Reply-To: <200412142304.PAA14253@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200412142304.PAA14253@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041214181720.03634060@mail.earthlink.net> they do indeed exist. Not very common though. They usually fetch a relatively high price on eBay. At 06:04 PM 12/14/2004, you wrote: > >From: "Norm and Beth Anheier" > > > >Anyone have an Intel C4040 processor that they would be interested in > >trade or selling??? > > > >Thanks Norm > > > > > >Hi > I don't think I ever saw a ceramic 4040? >Dwight From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Dec 14 17:19:52 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 voltsZ In-Reply-To: References: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <1102672595.13275.7.camel@weka.localdomain> <16829.42838.146287.343249@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <41BE1FCB.nailD7N11BTIA@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <1103049736.2570.30.camel@fortran> <20041214233205.0254d9c1.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <40400.64.139.41.130.1103066392.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Tom Jennings wrote: > I don't think APC makes one that size :-) Actually they do. APC makes UPSes up to the multiple megawatt range. There's an IBM 1401 restoration project at the Computer History Museum. They have a German 1401, so they need to convert the line frequency from 60 Hz to 50 Hz to run it. I was surprised to learn that rotary converters (i.e., motor-generators) have much higher MTBF that static inverters (all-electronic). Eric From news at computercollector.com Tue Dec 14 17:20:01 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: Domain Name Registration In-Reply-To: <200412142326.PAA52938@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <20041214232002.56714.qmail@web52801.mail.yahoo.com> I'm very happy with Yahoo. --- Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > So you can't avoid Verisign, at least for .com and a few other TLDs, > > though you don't deal with them directly. But you can and should avoid > > Network Solutions. I don't think there's any reason to believe that > > Network Solutions is any more stable and permanent than any other > > registrar. > > As someone registered with Network Solutions ... I agree. Mine was more > historical, as the registrar I was originally with got bought out. I have > not been pleased with NetSol's customer service, but it would be an > inconvenience to pull up stumps at the moment, and at least things work. > However, I would not buy from them again. > > -- > ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ > -- > Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * > ckaiser@floodgap.com > -- You told me to get a life. May I take yours? -- "Scream V" > ----------------- > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 600 readers and counting! From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Dec 14 17:20:47 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: Domain Name Registration In-Reply-To: <200412141915.iBEJFu9l022441@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200412141915.iBEJFu9l022441@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <41BF754F.9090708@mdrconsult.com> Zane H. Healy wrote: > Who do people like to use for registering domain names? DNS hosting would > be a plus. GoDaddy. I hate their name, but they're cheap, unobtrusive, and do nice things like hold your domain for you when you forget to pay. They have services, too, like hosting and email forwarding. Doc From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Dec 14 17:35:59 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 voltsZ In-Reply-To: <40400.64.139.41.130.1103066392.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: > There's an IBM 1401 restoration project at the Computer History Museum. > They have a German 1401, so they need to convert the line frequency from > 60 Hz to 50 Hz to run it. I was surprised to learn that rotary > converters (i.e., motor-generators) have much higher MTBF that static > inverters (all-electronic). A decent MG set, under proper maintenance (which isn't much) will easily outlive the guys that installed it. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Dec 14 17:37:54 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: Zitel card? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041214173531.00961ca0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > Oops! Sorry I meant to include that and forgot. The RAMS are MM 5280Js. I > think they're 4k x 1 SRAMs. That would make it two banks of 4k x 17 bits. > I'm not worried about tracing out the pinout since it doesn't look like > anything I can use (except for parts). I was more curious about Zitel and > what bus this might be. I have some of these as well, and always wondered aboput an Intel connection (that logo is really similar to Intel's). My guess is perhaps an Intel side project to make solid state memory boxes for mainframes. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Dec 14 17:41:46 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <20041214233205.0254d9c1.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: > Reminds me. The CDC Cyber 960 from http://www.cray-cyber.org/ runs at > 400 Hz. The higher frequency allows smaller transformers. I think the intent was to reduce the ripple, rather than reduce the weight. CDC wasn't afraid of a few more pounds. > The 400 Hz three phase current is generated by a motor-generator. The > rotating mass of this machine is enough to keep the Cyber running for > some seconds. (Power consumption of the Cyber at minimal configuration > is around 20 kW.) Enough to start a big diesel generator in case of a > power outage. I doubt you could start a big diesel that fast, reliably. The inertia would, however, protect against little dips and burps in the power, when the utilities are fooling around with the grid. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Dec 14 17:44:09 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I shudder to think how this effect was discovered... talk about > heisenbugs! Imagine some poor microwave receiver person trying > to find a loss of sensitivity, birdies, spurious output... and > finding out it's some goddamn FRONT PANEL LIGHT BULB! I would suspect a bigger bulb would be needed. High current is needed to make the magnetic field. > Do you have any references to this? I have a friend who would > appreciate such horrors... It was discussed amongst the tube geeks a couple of years ago, I think at the big Rochester radio show. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From tomj at wps.com Tue Dec 14 18:05:08 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: Domain Name Registration In-Reply-To: <200412142314.PAA14257@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200412142314.PAA14257@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >that just Wasn't Done then. Some did, I know one person who > >made millions off nothin' but domregs.) > > His name might be Marcelo. Jeez that name is familiar... Bay Area? but the person I was thinking about is/was Stray'n. He at one time (as a small fry reseller) "pacificbell.com"! With written permission! Really, I Was There, and his nameserver. Imagine the cluelessness... they paid some hard cash to get that name back a few years later (if they had waited a few years more, they coulda had it for free :-) From tomj at wps.com Tue Dec 14 18:06:05 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 voltsZ In-Reply-To: <40400.64.139.41.130.1103066392.squirrel@64.139.41.130> References: <001901c4de60$325e8b20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <1102672595.13275.7.camel@weka.localdomain> <16829.42838.146287.343249@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <41BE1FCB.nailD7N11BTIA@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> <1103049736.2570.30.camel@fortran> <20041214233205.0254d9c1.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <40400.64.139.41.130.1103066392.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Eric Smith wrote: > Tom Jennings wrote: > > I don't think APC makes one that size :-) > > Actually they do. APC makes UPSes up to the multiple megawatt range. That's a lot of beige plastic. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Dec 14 18:08:40 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts Message-ID: <200412150008.QAA14274@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "William Donzelli" > >> Reminds me. The CDC Cyber 960 from http://www.cray-cyber.org/ runs at >> 400 Hz. The higher frequency allows smaller transformers. > >I think the intent was to reduce the ripple, rather than reduce the >weight. CDC wasn't afraid of a few more pounds. > >> The 400 Hz three phase current is generated by a motor-generator. The >> rotating mass of this machine is enough to keep the Cyber running for >> some seconds. (Power consumption of the Cyber at minimal configuration >> is around 20 kW.) Enough to start a big diesel generator in case of a >> power outage. > >I doubt you could start a big diesel that fast, reliably. > >The inertia would, however, protect against little dips and burps in the >power, when the utilities are fooling around with the grid. > Hi William I was right next to a flywheel started no-break diesel. It was running at full load in about one second from a complete stand still. My heart was pounding quite hard from the adrenaline rush I got. Another way to start a diesel fast is with compressed air. In anycase, "Yes", they can start that fast. Dwight From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Dec 14 18:16:48 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: Domain Name Registration Message-ID: <200412150016.QAA14281@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Tom Jennings" > >On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >> >that just Wasn't Done then. Some did, I know one person who >> >made millions off nothin' but domregs.) >> >> His name might be Marcelo. > >Jeez that name is familiar... Bay Area? but the person I was >thinking about is/was Stray'n. He at one time (as a small fry >reseller) "pacificbell.com"! With written permission! Really, I >Was There, and his nameserver. Imagine the cluelessness... they >paid some hard cash to get that name back a few years later (if >they had waited a few years more, they coulda had it for free :-) > Hi Tom It was either loan.com or loans.com that he sold. It is probably more interesting to here his story as to how he got the .com name in the first place. You know, failed business plans and then forced on him by the wife of his business partner that felt he was responsible for the business failure. Dwight From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Dec 14 18:20:53 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:23 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <200412150008.QAA14274@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: > I was right next to a flywheel started no-break diesel. > It was running at full load in about one second from > a complete stand still. My heart was pounding quite hard > from the adrenaline rush I got. Another way to start > a diesel fast is with compressed air. > In anycase, "Yes", they can start that fast. OK, I suppose you could do something like that. The few big backups I have seen did not have them, but I could see where they could made that way.. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 14 19:17:11 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Off the wall CGA monitor question In-Reply-To: <000101c4e219$c38d8cb0$f402010a@gizmo> from "Robert Armstrong" at Dec 14, 4 12:16:15 pm Message-ID: > > > Can anybody tell me if a "proper" (i.e. true IBM compatible) CGA (CGA, not > MDA, EGA or VGA) monitor had a male or female connector? The IBM CGA monitor (5153), and for that matter the MDA (5151) and EGA (5154) monitors all have built-in video cables ending in a male DE9 plug to fit the female socket on the card. -tony From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Dec 14 19:29:29 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Altair goes for over $2800 Message-ID: <01b501c4e245$ad2265f0$0e406b43@66067007> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19198&item=5146452166 From river at zip.com.au Wed Dec 15 07:42:01 2004 From: river at zip.com.au (river) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Newbie! Message-ID: <007901c4e2ab$dbe01fc0$a625083d@river> Hi, I'm a newbie to this forum, though I don't regard my self as a newbie in regards to old computers. I collect the 70's vintage processors and systems and have been playing with them for many years. However, I have hit a bit of a hurdle with a pair of old Intel MDS Systems. Last week I bought a SeriesIV and a Series225 for a few dollars. The Series4 has failed its CPIO PhaseII test with the RAM March error @ location 0000:8001. I have another Series4 that I've had for a while and it works. I swapped over the processor boards and the error followed the board. I don't have a cct diagram so I traced the pins of the RAM chips (32 x 2118chips) and have traced it down to possibly one of 8 chips. However, before I start replacing chips etc, I am hoping that someone here may be able to tell me which chip it is that has failed - assuming you have access to more info on the Series4 than I do. The Series225 was left out under a verandah for 12years with just a plastic tarp covering it and it was covered in mud and dirt. I spent most of the weekend cleaning it up and checking it out. It powers up okay, but I need more info on this box 'cos I have no doco for it whatsoever. I need to know the Monitor commands. I got a few of them out 'cos some are the same as the old Intel SBC monitors, but there are a few extra commands that I'm not sure about. Also, does anyone have a ROM listing for the Series 225 Monitor? I'd like to know its IO addresses for keyboard, CRT, serial port. I can try and hand dissasemble it, but I thought I'd try you guys before I embark on this task. Oh, one other thing... at what stage does the Series225 boot from the floppy? So far I can't get this thing to recognise it's got a floppy. I was assuming it would boot upon power-up/reset, but it doesn't. So, maybe there's a command I need to use or it's just stuffed and I'll have to fix it. seeyuzz river From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Dec 14 19:35:42 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Fwd: Re: Mathiputer info Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041214193530.05d8f3e0@pc> >From: Ghena2@aol.com >Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 20:08:54 EST >Subject: Re: Mathiputer info >To: jfoust@threedee.com > >NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!!! > >You must not tinker with and give away as joke! Please!! > >TERRIBLE IDEA!! JOKE IS NOT WORTH IT! > >AND TINKERING WITH...... I SHUDDER! > >Mathiputers are no longer manufactured, and if memory serves me correctly, the company which did make them has metamorphised, merged, whatever.... In other words, disappeared. > >I am a Special Educator in Salt Lake City, Utah, and I have personally been searching for a working Mathiputer for the past ten years or so.... Perhaps two years of that time online. > >I have a computer programming expert on stand-by, from half way across the country, who has volunteered.... for free!.... to write a program which will run on Windows, which will operate in fashion similar to Mathiputer.... IF I CAN PROVIDE HIM WITH A WORKING MODEL TO GO BY. My special ed kids NEED this! > >Is my opinion, as a special educator of almost 30 years, that none of the new-fangled computer programs can hold a candle to the Mathiputer for teaching kids their number facts.... Especially, those kids who have learning disabilities. > >So, of course, I will like you to sell your most valuable Mathiputer to ME.... At a price I can afford, no less! > >If not, I think your Mathiputer belongs in a computer museum. One of the museums I looked at does have one, but it is not a working model. > >And sorry I cannot help you further with Mathiputer info. > >Most sincerely, > >Ghena Dalby >Salt Lake City, Utah > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Dec 14 19:51:11 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Mathiputer info References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041214142213.052f4e70@pc> Message-ID: <01c501c4e248$8f3b3000$0e406b43@66067007> If he wants to donate to a museum we would love to have it and will pick-up the cost of shipping it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foust" To: Cc: ; Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 2:24 PM Subject: Re: Mathiputer info > At 12:43 AM 12/13/2004, you wrote: >>I am an IT Director for a central Illinois school district and we recently >>uncovered a Mathiputer while going through old boxes of electronics >>equipment from the 70s and 80s. Do you have any info about the Mathiputer >>or even if the company is still in business? We want to tinker with it >>and give it to a teacher as a gift... and a joke. > > There's a picture at the bottom of http://www.gateman.com/museum/v.html . > Is that what yours looks like? > > It was previously mentioned on the list in May 2003: > http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-May/014748.html > > A mailing list of classic computer collectors will probably > help you identify what it is, but they're not going to encourage > you to give it to someone as a joke... they'll want to see > it preserved and given to a good home... > > - John > > From r_a_feldman at hotmail.com Tue Dec 14 20:46:19 2004 From: r_a_feldman at hotmail.com (Robert Feldman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts Message-ID: >From: "Teo Zenios" >Who would be using DC besides electro-platers? The Chicago Transit Authority (CTA) uses 600v DC to power its trains. Bob From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Dec 14 23:24:00 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Domain Name Registration References: <200412141915.iBEJFu9l022441@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <005701c4e267$a2aad4f0$033310ac@HPLAPTOP> I prefer network solutions still. Slightly more expensive, but very reliable. I'll provide the DNS free for you if you'd like. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 1:15 PM Subject: Domain Name Registration > > Who do people like to use for registering domain names? DNS hosting would > be a plus. > > Zane > > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Dec 14 23:36:48 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: value of PDP8e References: <7D7A68F7F09DAE40AE47E55F7F601D8B3BD7CC@SLISERVER21.sli-institute.ac.uk> Message-ID: <005e01c4e268$12c282b0$033310ac@HPLAPTOP> Holy Geezz! $4000.00 USD for an 8E cpu only? *sigh* I'd love to put up an ebay ad for me 8E, pristine in a rack with RK05, TU56, PC04, and TU10. Of course I'd never sell it.... but I'm curious what it'd go for :) Unbelievable. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Adamson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" ; "Heinz Wolter" Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 2:20 AM Subject: RE: value of PDP8e > Well I don't know about that!!. One just went on Ebay for ?2,075.00 for a > pretty minimal machine!! > See > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5145823337&rd=1 > > regards > Bob Adamson > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jay West [mailto:jwest@classiccmp.org] >> Sent: 03 December 2004 20:16 >> To: Heinz Wolter; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >> Subject: Re: value of PDP8e >> >> Yup, I was going to say roughly $1500, if you're looking for ebay >> standards. >> >> Jay >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Heinz Wolter" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 1:39 PM >> Subject: value of PDP8e >> >> >> >I acquired a PDP8e (sn M40000521)as part of a trade, which has not yet >> been >> > completed. >> > Anyone know what value such a unit might have? It's got a blue bezel >> > instead of the usual orange, but it on a 19 slide enclosure. Does this >> > make >> > it >> > an 'industrial' ? I'm not looking to sell it (maybe after the deal is >> > settled) but >> > I'd like to know how to valuate it. I did see some pristine, working >> units >> > on epay - the top one going for 2300$USD in a silly bid war. But a >> > realistic >> > price may be more like 1500$USD, I'm told. The machine is in 'new' >> > shape >> > and working, has the tty interface card and cabling. core ( dunno how >> > much). >> > Thanks to all who reply, >> > Heinz >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> > > > > > From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 00:35:51 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: value of PDP8e In-Reply-To: <005e01c4e268$12c282b0$033310ac@HPLAPTOP> References: <7D7A68F7F09DAE40AE47E55F7F601D8B3BD7CC@SLISERVER21.sli-institute.ac.uk> <005e01c4e268$12c282b0$033310ac@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 23:36:48 -0600, Jay West wrote: > Holy Geezz! $4000.00 USD for an 8E cpu only? *sigh* That does seem to be a lot. > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5145823337 I'm sorry I missed one his other auctions: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=%205145843403 For the eBay impaired, it's a BM08L, but not like the one I have... this one appears to be an OMNIBUS box with the right goodies (Posibus interface, etc.) to hang off of an -8/L and be memory and peripheral space. Mine is a custom-wired backplane with room for two MM8I core stacks and the wads of M and G modules one would expect in an -8/i or -8/L for the primary 4K of core. The seller comments that it's possible to turn it into a computer by adding the proper front panel and "appropriate boards" (KK8E, etc.) I would have been happy to have paid more than *double* the closing price (31 GBP) plus the shipping to the States... it's exactly the thing I've been looking for for _years_ - I've wanted to run OS/8 on my -8/L since 1982... I have a 8K expander box, but no mass storage for the -8/L (all I have are OMNIBUS things and a couple of Negibus things). This one is sans cables, but that's not even close to a problem... *sigh*... take a few days off scouring auctions and one slips by... -ethan P.S. - if anyone has any docs on _any_ flavor of BM08, I'd love to know about them... I've had this BM08 since college, but never had any docs for it. Now that I know about this other variety, I'd be curious to see if I could fiddle something up with a spare PDP-8/a chassis (I have several at home). It wouldn't be properly authentic, but it would still be 100% DEC. From ggs at shiresoft.com Wed Dec 15 01:43:06 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: KM11 clones Message-ID: <1103096585.6004.4.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> For those who haven't seen a KM11 in action, I've updated the page to contain a couple of shots of two of my KM11 clones plugged into an 11/40 while I was running some memory diagnostics. The display was quite impressive but I couldn't capture it. :-( You'll just have to get a couple and try it yourself! :-) The link is: http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/boards/index.html -- TTFN - Guy From gordon at gjcp.net Wed Dec 15 03:18:51 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <200412150008.QAA14274@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200412150008.QAA14274@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <41C0017B.1050400@gjcp.net> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi William > I was right next to a flywheel started no-break diesel. > It was running at full load in about one second from > a complete stand still. My heart was pounding quite hard > from the adrenaline rush I got. Another way to start > a diesel fast is with compressed air. > In anycase, "Yes", they can start that fast. > Dwight I've seen an industrial diesel genny, eight cylinder two-stroke, barrels damn near as tall as me. When it's stopped, an electric motor winds it up to just past TDC on one. To start it there are two compressed air receivers the size of welding bottles which fire into one then the next cylinder to pass TDC (can't remember which, probably five). It's kept warm with a 1kW heater in the oil pan. It's practically capable of full load before it's finished one complete revolution of the crank... Gordon. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Dec 15 03:45:22 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: References: <20041214233205.0254d9c1.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20041215104522.05ad2686.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 18:41:46 -0500 (EST) William Donzelli wrote: > I think the intent was to reduce the ripple, rather than reduce the > weight. CDC wasn't afraid of a few more pounds. With smaller transformsers you can squeeze more power in the same volume. The "energy density" of the PSU is higher / the PSU gets smaller and the whole machine gets smaller. The size is important as the runtime of the signals in the machine limmits its max. operating frequency. Ripple, of course, is also important. Reminds me of an other Cray thing: Cray said that computer design is like plumbing: Plumbing of data paths, plumbing of power supply and plumbing of cooling. :-) > I doubt you could start a big diesel that fast, reliably. I saw disels of that size starting in less then 10 seconds. Note that we are talking about 100 kW or the like. 100 kW is not a big diesel. Many cars have biger diesel engines. A ship diesel engine with multipe MW is big. > The inertia would, however, protect against little dips and burps in > the power, when the utilities are fooling around with the grid. An other important fact. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From melamy at earthlink.net Wed Dec 15 05:34:40 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Newbie! Message-ID: <12411323.1103110480880.JavaMail.root@rowlf.psp.pas.earthlink.net> you can find the boot monitor listing for the mds225 (and various other things) at http://bitsavers.org/pdf/intel/MDS2/ The 225 boots up off floppy when you have a single density floppy in the drive and you press reset on the front panel (any floppy in the drive will at least cause it to access the drive whether it can read it or not). Obviously, if the floppy drive was never even selected then you have more problems on the IOC card in back. Keep in mind that the processor board out front does not access the individual items like to the keyboard, display, and IO ports (that is all done by the IOC card) through ports. The main processor sends commands to the back card to access the various pieces of hardware. You can get more info on that by looking at the schematic set at bitsavers also. By the way, welcome to the Intel club. best regards, Steve Thatcher -----Original Message----- From: river The Series225 was left out under a verandah for 12years with just a plastic tarp covering it and it was covered in mud and dirt. I spent most of the weekend cleaning it up and checking it out. It powers up okay, but I need more info on this box 'cos I have no doco for it whatsoever. I need to know the Monitor commands. I got a few of them out 'cos some are the same as the old Intel SBC monitors, but there are a few extra commands that I'm not sure about. Also, does anyone have a ROM listing for the Series 225 Monitor? I'd like to know its IO addresses for keyboard, CRT, serial port. I can try and hand dissasemble it, but I thought I'd try you guys before I embark on this task. Oh, one other thing... at what stage does the Series225 boot from the floppy? So far I can't get this thing to recognise it's got a floppy. I was assuming it would boot upon power-up/reset, but it doesn't. So, maybe there's a command I need to use or it's just stuffed and I'll have to fix it. seeyuzz river From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Dec 15 05:36:51 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <20041215104522.05ad2686.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <20041214233205.0254d9c1.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20041215104522.05ad2686.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <200412151139.GAA16261@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> I doubt you could start a big diesel that fast, reliably. > I saw disels of that size starting in less then 10 seconds. Note > that we are talking about 100 kW or the like. 100 kW is not a big > diesel. Many cars have biger diesel engines. According to units(1), 100kW is 134.1+ horsepower, which perhaps gives a better idea of that size in an internal-combustion-engine context. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From gdale at raytheon.com Tue Dec 14 16:10:07 2004 From: gdale at raytheon.com (Gabriel Dale) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: HP stuff available Message-ID: Hi, Just read your message. Do have any more HP 7906 disc cartridges w/diagnostics available? If so, me e-mail me back. Gdale@raytheon.com Thanks. From fholzw at rz.fh-aalen.de Tue Dec 14 16:09:30 2004 From: fholzw at rz.fh-aalen.de (Fabian Holzwarth) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Fluke 8506A manual Message-ID: <200412142209.iBEM9UGm024612@mail.rz.fh-aalen.de> Hi, looking in the internet I sow that you need a Fluke 8506A manual. I may send you a copy for a reasonable price. kind regrads Fabian From nwdigital at frontiernet.net Tue Dec 14 22:31:26 2004 From: nwdigital at frontiernet.net (Marty Green, DBA Northwestern Digital) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Need help with 2 projects. (TI and Xerox) Message-ID: <000501c4e25e$f76e2310$0201a8c0@SALES1> I was interested to see someone still interested in the Old TI 990/10 & /12 system. I worked for TI from 1980 to 1986 and worked with the 990/10, 990/12 & Business System 1300 & Business System 1500. I started my company in Austin, Texas, building performance products for the TI Systems. We built memory expansion boards, 8 Port CRU Devices compatible with the CI-402, 8 Port & 16 Port Ti-Line devices compatible with the CI-403. We also built "Turbo" upgrades for the 990/10A as well as the fastest memory controller to ever be used with the TI 990/12 and 990/12A. The Memory Controller could be configured as 512K., 1 Meg., 1.5 Meg. and 2 Meg. It was totally Static Ram, ( no hesitating every 14 to 15.5 microseconds for a refresh cycle.) The static ram on our board ran at 35ns and the fastest boards ran at 25ns. ALL CACHE MEMORY. The controllers sold to dealers for $15,000.00 ea. At the request of John Deere, TI supported our 8 Port Terminal Controller under Maintenance Contract. We also used to do fixed price repair on all TI Computer Boards. We also performed Memory Upgrades to the TI 512K. LR Cache controller boards. We could upgrade them to 1 Meg. and 2 Meg. of Dram. The 990/10A was sold as 512K, 1 Meg. and 1.5 Meg. but we could upgrade them to any of those sizes as well as to 2 Meg. We designed over 20 products to work with the TI Systems. I really enjoyed working with them. Nothing since has interested me as much. Sincerely, Marty From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Dec 15 07:44:05 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: diesels (Was: Re: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1103118245.20323.41.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-12-14 at 18:41 -0500, William Donzelli wrote: > > Reminds me. The CDC Cyber 960 from http://www.cray-cyber.org/ runs at > > 400 Hz. The higher frequency allows smaller transformers. > > I think the intent was to reduce the ripple, rather than reduce the > weight. CDC wasn't afraid of a few more pounds. > > > The 400 Hz three phase current is generated by a motor-generator. The > > rotating mass of this machine is enough to keep the Cyber running for > > some seconds. (Power consumption of the Cyber at minimal configuration > > is around 20 kW.) Enough to start a big diesel generator in case of a > > power outage. > > I doubt you could start a big diesel that fast, reliably. We had an electric start Dorman generator at the fortress in NZ (37KW IIRC) and it'd turn over and start happily in a second or so. I've got some nice footage somewhere of a power fail test - kill the supply to the fortress and the lights dim for a couple of seconds whilst the Dorman kicks in automatically and then everything picks up again. The pair of British Polar straight-8 diesels up at Palmerston Nrth were another matter. Each engine's 725 litres in capacity (yep, you read that right) and have to be barred over prior to starting by hand (it's back- breaking work). Each engine has a couple of enormous air recievers, which also need to be charged first and then fire the engine on two cylinders for starting. The engines run at 300rpm, which gives a wonderful ground-shaking rumble and thumping noise from the exhaust stacks. Output's 3300V three-phase - that'd supply any computer collection nicely ;-) Not bad for something of 1930's vintage. Designed for continuous running obviously though, not exactly the sort of thing you'd want to be stopping and starting all the time :) (takes a couple of hours start to finish to run through the startup procedure) cheers Jules From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Dec 15 08:45:50 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: <200412150008.QAA14274@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041215094550.0095bea0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:08 PM 12/14/04 -0800, you wrote: > >>From: "William Donzelli" >> >>> Reminds me. The CDC Cyber 960 from http://www.cray-cyber.org/ runs at >>> 400 Hz. The higher frequency allows smaller transformers. >> >>I think the intent was to reduce the ripple, rather than reduce the >>weight. CDC wasn't afraid of a few more pounds. >> >>> The 400 Hz three phase current is generated by a motor-generator. The >>> rotating mass of this machine is enough to keep the Cyber running for >>> some seconds. (Power consumption of the Cyber at minimal configuration >>> is around 20 kW.) Enough to start a big diesel generator in case of a >>> power outage. >> >>I doubt you could start a big diesel that fast, reliably. >> >>The inertia would, however, protect against little dips and burps in the >>power, when the utilities are fooling around with the grid. >> > >Hi William > I was right next to a flywheel started no-break diesel. >It was running at full load in about one second from >a complete stand still. My heart was pounding quite hard >from the adrenaline rush I got. Another way to start >a diesel fast is with compressed air. > In anycase, "Yes", they can start that fast. >Dwight > My father told me that when he was in the USAF they had generators that they called Might-Mites. He said that they had a big flywheel and a motor-generator connected together and a dieal engine connected via a clutch. Normally it used AC power to drive the motor-generator and flywheel but when they lost Ac power a relay closed that caused the unit to dump the clutch and that instantly engaged the engine. The engine went from 0 to full speed in a fraction of a revolution. It of course started and then provided power to operate the motor-generator. Those never lost power because the motor-generator never stopped rotating even during the split second between the time they lost AC power and the time the engine started. he said they worked very well. My only comment is that they must have had a GOOD clutch and a dammed strong crankshaft. Joe From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Dec 15 12:56:43 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: diesels (Was: Re: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts) References: <1103118245.20323.41.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <16832.35051.637000.578802@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jules" == Jules Richardson writes: >> I doubt you could start a big diesel that fast, reliably. Jules> We had an electric start Dorman generator at the fortress in Jules> NZ (37KW IIRC) and it'd turn over and start happily in a Jules> second or so. Of course, that's a rather tiny engine. My Honda Insight hybrid car has a gasoline engine about that size (3 cylinder 1 liter). It starts in a small fraction of a second. The magic is a combination of good fuel mixture controls, and the fact that the starter motor is a monster good for about 10 kW... paul From williams.dan at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 13:08:39 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: diesels (Was: Re: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts) In-Reply-To: <16832.35051.637000.578802@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <1103118245.20323.41.camel@weka.localdomain> <16832.35051.637000.578802@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <26c11a6404121511084e024121@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:56:43 -0500, Paul Koning wrote: > >>>>> "Jules" == Jules Richardson writes: > > >> I doubt you could start a big diesel that fast, reliably. > > Jules> We had an electric start Dorman generator at the fortress in > Jules> NZ (37KW IIRC) and it'd turn over and start happily in a > Jules> second or so. > > Of course, that's a rather tiny engine. My Honda Insight hybrid car > has a gasoline engine about that size (3 cylinder 1 liter). It starts > in a small fraction of a second. The magic is a combination of good > fuel mixture controls, and the fact that the starter motor is a > monster good for about 10 kW... > > paul > > Good idea, but isn't that a bit of overkill for your home collection. Dan From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Dec 15 13:32:30 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: diesels (Was: Re: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts) In-Reply-To: <26c11a6404121511084e024121@mail.gmail.com> References: <16832.35051.637000.578802@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1103118245.20323.41.camel@weka.localdomain> <16832.35051.637000.578802@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041215143103.00b06a18@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Dan Williams may have mentioned these words: >On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:56:43 -0500, Paul Koning >wrote: > > Of course, that's a rather tiny engine. My Honda Insight hybrid car > > has a gasoline engine about that size (3 cylinder 1 liter). It starts > > in a small fraction of a second. The magic is a combination of good > > fuel mixture controls, and the fact that the starter motor is a > > monster good for about 10 kW... > > > > paul > > >Good idea, but isn't that a bit of overkill for your home collection. Nah... how many people do you know that measure their auto's fuel mileage in MIPS & MFLOPS??? ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers _??_ zmerch@30below.com (?||?) If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead _)(_ disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From mapleleafman at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 14:18:56 2004 From: mapleleafman at gmail.com (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Grid 1520 update Message-ID: Well Dave and all, I figured out the power supply problem only to find that the hard drive is probably shot. The PS contact inside the case had been heat-shrinked to prevent the battery from working. There was no battery with the computer but if there had been, it would have been drained in a short time due to the plasma screen. After removing the heat shrink, the laptop booted but stuck on a drive error/configuration error, 02 to be specific. One other interesting thing that I didn't notice is that there is a shock detector stuck on the side of the PS cage inside the laptop. It states something about it will show red if excessive shock detected. Well, half of it is red, other half is grey so who knows if it's been dropped? Anyway, I will continue to see if I can resurrect the drive. There was no floppy drive with it so I'm stymied there. Lots of config apps are out there for it but I can't use them. FYI, that's all. BM From dmabry at mich.com Wed Dec 15 14:33:34 2004 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Grid 1520 update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41C09F9E.6040808@mich.com> So that must have been when the floppy drive was external. Is there a 25-pin D conncector on the side? (I think it is on the side) That is to connect up an external floppy drive that GRiD sold. It didn't need external power so that must have been supplied through the 25-pin. You _could_ also boot from a ROM if you had a bootable one inside. The shock detector, I suspect, is to tell GRiD if a repair would be covered under warranty. I've seen machine working perfectly with it all red and broken machine with no red on the detector. Have you asked in the Yahoo group if anyone has a floppy drive to sell? Or take a look on e-greed? Brian Mahoney wrote: > Well Dave and all, I figured out the power supply problem only to find > that the hard drive is probably shot. > The PS contact inside the case had been heat-shrinked to prevent the > battery from working. There was no battery with the computer but if > there had been, it would have been drained in a short time due to the > plasma screen. After removing the heat shrink, the laptop booted but > stuck on a drive error/configuration error, 02 to be specific. > One other interesting thing that I didn't notice is that there is a > shock detector stuck on the side of the PS cage inside the laptop. It > states something about it will show red if excessive shock detected. > Well, half of it is red, other half is grey so who knows if it's been > dropped? Anyway, I will continue to see if I can resurrect the drive. > There was no floppy drive with it so I'm stymied there. Lots of config > apps are out there for it but I can't use them. > FYI, that's all. > > BM > From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Dec 15 14:56:55 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Stuff for sale, cheap Message-ID: I picked up the pile of DECstuff located in White Plains, NY the other night, and most I really don't want. I am keeping the rack, PDP-11/23, RL02s and some packs, and maybe a VT100, but the rest I don't need. So here it goes, cheap: (many) RL02 disk packs (some I think have MUMPS stuff) (2 or 3) LA50 printers (little desktop things) (2 or 3) VT100oid keyboards (may have missing keycaps) Make silly offers for this stuff - just give me something for my time and gas fetching the stuff. Shipping is from 10512. Come to think of it, someone local could probably easily talk me out of the whole pile. I must say it is not too pretty. Unrelated, I also have an ancient video game - one of those analog/digital hybrids (ping/squash/practice/soccer - the ultra cheesy games from the mid 1970s). It is a Bentley Compuvision. The paddles are included, but one is missing the knob (the pot shaft is still there). I was told it still works, but did not try it out. Also accepting silly offers for the thing.). Oh, and I also see I have a tube of Altera EP610SC-15 EPLD chips. These are surface mount - I assume unblown, but can't be sure. 17 chips is all. Same deal. Please reply off list. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 15 15:34:27 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Domain Name Registration In-Reply-To: <200412141915.iBEJFu9l022441@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Who do people like to use for registering domain names? DNS hosting would > be a plus. I use BulkRegister. Good service, and if you can justify the $50/year membership you get free DNS on all your domains (this is what I have). On the negative side, their web servers are damn slow and no matter how many times I complain they never seem to spend the $100 to upgrade the motherboard in their server to something beyond a PentiumPro (or whatever the hell they're running it on). The management tools are OK. A bit tedious. They claim they are the best in the domain name registration industry. The price per domain is pretty good, and they are open to negotiation if you threaten to take your (many) domain names elsewhere. This should not be construed as an endorsement. I've used them for the past 3+ years, but if something came along that was much cheaper than the $8/domain I pay now, I'd move my domains. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 15 15:44:57 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > > > On Mon, 2004-12-13 at 22:57 +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > > > I have a feeling that a lot of trams and trolleybuses over here at least > > > ran on DC, presumably for traction and speed control reasons. Whether > > > they were candidates for being supplied by a DC grid or whether rotary > > > converters were always used, I don't know. > > > > Norwegian trains run DC... I've seen a tagger actually climb up on the > > roof of a train, and before I could run to the veranda of my appartment > > to tell him to get the fuck down, the dumb fuck stood up. He illuminated > > the entire train exchange for a millisecond, and then all that was left > > of him was one of his feet, that apparently hadn't made contact with the > > grounded train roof. His charred remains were still burning 20 minutes > > later, until the firemen came and cleaned up the mess. > > > > By coincidence, two years later, I actually met the guy who was with > > him, on the ground, and I was infuriated to watch him make up a story > > about trying to run from a mob of violent security guards and this was > > happening by accident... > > > > -- > > Tore S Bekkedal > > > > Gee, that sure brightened up my day... Pun [un]intended? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 15 15:47:03 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Domain Name Registration In-Reply-To: <0412141954.AA10231@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > The best hope that I see for Internet is the colonisation of Mars. The > good thing about Mars is that the 30 min speed of light delay should prevent > any possibility of our present rotten, corrupt, spam,porn-and-Weendoze-filled > Internet extending to Mars, and on Mars we'll have a chance to start fresh > from a clean slate. If I get there first I'm going to recreate the good > old ARPA Internet there in its full glory, with TENEX and 4BSD hosts, > open relays (we'll have to relay because interplanetary communication back > to Earth and to elsewhere will have to be all store and forward, like the > good old UUCP), SRI-NIC, HOSTS.TXT, no Yahoo, no AOL, no spam, no porn, > no Weendoze lusers on DSL with dynamic IPs! A copy of the original SRI-NIC > registry software would be very helpful. I hope you're not the first to Mars (not the least of which is because I love porn). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 15 15:55:37 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Stupid TI power supply In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > What was the model of this silent700? I have one at home, working, and > can put a VM on the P.S. for you, assuming it's the same and all that. It's the portable unit: Model 703. > Markings on transformer cube? None. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 15 15:56:59 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Off the wall CGA monitor question In-Reply-To: <60362.64.139.41.130.1103060363.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Eric Smith wrote: > I'd be inclined to expect that most CGI monitors either had a captive > cable, or had a female connector on the monitor as well. But it's been > so long since I looked at CGI monitors that I don't recall. That's a good point. The question is probably moot, but I do believe the connector coming off the CGA monitor would be universally male. Call it an educated guess. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 15 16:00:34 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700 power supplies In-Reply-To: <0412142216.AA10566@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > OK, I've just looked at mine, and all of my terminals and all of my power > wallwarts for them are clearly marked 20 VAC (1.8 A, 35 W marking on the > terminals, 37 VA marking on the wallwarts). Plugging one of the wallwarts > into the wall and measuring with a voltmeter showed 24 VAC under no load. I > guess it's supposed to sink a little under load. > > Since it's so clearly marked, why was this a mystery in the first place? Because there are three conductors sockets on the end plug and I don't know what is supposed to be on each one. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From tomj at wps.com Wed Dec 15 16:21:30 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Stupid TI power supply In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Dec 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > > > What was the model of this silent700? I have one at home, working, and > > can put a VM on the P.S. for you, assuming it's the same and all that. > > It's the portable unit: Model 703. > > > Markings on transformer cube? Michael S. answered this for you, correct? 20VAC nominal? From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Wed Dec 15 16:29:17 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700 power supplies Message-ID: <0412152229.AA12353@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Because there are three conductors sockets on the end plug and I don't > know what is supposed to be on each one. Well, 20 VAC between the ends, don't know about the middle. MS From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Wed Dec 15 16:30:25 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Stupid TI power supply Message-ID: <0412152230.AA12369@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Tom Jennings wrote: > Michael S. answered this for you, correct? I did, I guess he didn't like my answer. > 20VAC nominal? Yup. MS From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 15 16:32:38 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Stupid TI power supply In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > On Wed, 15 Dec 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > > > > > What was the model of this silent700? I have one at home, working, and > > > can put a VM on the P.S. for you, assuming it's the same and all that. > > > > It's the portable unit: Model 703. > > > > > Markings on transformer cube? > > Michael S. answered this for you, correct? 20VAC nominal? But across which pins??? The power connector on the terminal has three pins. Which ones want voltage and which one wants ground? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 15 16:33:14 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700 power supplies In-Reply-To: <0412152229.AA12353@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Dec 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > Because there are three conductors sockets on the end plug and I don't > > know what is supposed to be on each one. > > Well, 20 VAC between the ends, don't know about the middle. Ok, that's good information, but for good measure it would be nice to know what the voltage is across the middle pin and either end pin. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 15 16:33:52 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Stupid TI power supply In-Reply-To: <0412152230.AA12369@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Dec 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Tom Jennings wrote: > > > Michael S. answered this for you, correct? > > I did, I guess he didn't like my answer. > > > 20VAC nominal? > > Yup. I haven't been keeping up with messages over the past few days so am answering in the order they came which may be days apart from your perspective. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Dec 15 17:21:50 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700 power supplies Message-ID: <200412152321.PAA14885@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > >On Wed, 15 Dec 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > >> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >> >> > Because there are three conductors sockets on the end plug and I don't >> > know what is supposed to be on each one. >> >> Well, 20 VAC between the ends, don't know about the middle. > >Ok, that's good information, but for good measure it would be nice to know >what the voltage is across the middle pin and either end pin. > >Thanks! > Hi Sellam Do all the pins show low ohms to each other? It might be a center tap or even just a ground lead that doesn't carry current. Since you have the box open, you should be able to see where all the wires go. Dwight From shirsch at adelphia.net Wed Dec 15 17:36:56 2004 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? In-Reply-To: <41B398E8.2010400@oldskool.org> References: <41B398E8.2010400@oldskool.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Dec 2004, Jim Leonard wrote: > I have a few IBM model 5150s that I use to code entries for programming > competitions and I'd like to try to speed up the hard disk in any way > possible. (If you're curious what my last project was, check out > http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=13722 to download and try it out -- it > displays full-screen full-motion color video with sync'd sound -- yes, on a > 4.77MHz 8088, no fooling). I've been looking for any way to speed up the hard > disk subsystem (currently WD1002 with Seagate ST225) and I simply can't get > more than 130KB/s out of the darn thing... so: > > - Is there any MFM/RLL 8-bit ISA controller that can read disks at their full > 1:1 interleave? If so, where can I get one? 3:1 is the best I've been able > to get using the above MFM combination. I haven't tried RLL yet because I > don't have any RLL controllers. IIRC, the 4.77Mhz PC bus is not fast enough to handle 1:1 interleave with 8 bit transfers - but, it's been a few years. I do know that 16-bit ESDI controllers handled 1:1, but that doesn't help on an original PC. > - If not, do such things exist as 8-bit ISA IDE controllers? I have lots of > "little" IDE drives (320MB and 540MB models) that I could hook up. There actually were 8-bit IDE controllers, but I don't think they're all that common. Steve From gordon at gjcp.net Wed Dec 15 18:34:56 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Stupid TI power supply In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41C0D830.60508@gjcp.net> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > But across which pins??? The power connector on the terminal has three > pins. Which ones want voltage and which one wants ground? > Look inside it. In any case, since it's AC, it doesn't *matter* which is voltage and which is ground. There's no "polarity" as such, since the secondary of the transformer is going to be floating. Gordon. From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Wed Dec 15 18:44:48 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim stephens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Grid 1520 References: Message-ID: <41C0DA80.6FAE5846@msm.umr.edu> there are yahoo groups that can help you, with this one being one: RuGRiD-Laptop@Yahoogroups.com and I am sure many people here will reply as well. Brian Mahoney wrote: > Hi crew. Question about a Gridacase 1520. Is anyone familiar with > these laptops? This is a 286, really good shape. From paulpenn at knology.net Wed Dec 15 18:45:03 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul A. Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? References: <41B398E8.2010400@oldskool.org> Message-ID: <000f01c4e308$7b22fab0$6501a8c0@ibm6go1addn6c0> There was one 8-bit ISA hard disk controller card for the IBM PC or XT that would do a 1:1 interleave, from Patterson Labs. Don't know how they did it, but they worked. They were always unusual, probably impossible to find today, but Google it. RLL was way too fast for the PC/XT bus at 1:1 interleave, but there was at least one 8-bit controller from Seagate that worked with only one 30 MB IDE drive. I don't remember the numbers. They would work with a higher interleave, 3 or 4 sounds about right. Spinrite is great for setting the optimum interleave on any of these. The original Western Digital full-length controller was slowest of all, so anything you replace it with is almost sure to be faster. I think it was an interleave of 5. Plus HardCards are not bad, and turn up occasionally on eBay. You need the floppy disk that goes with them for installation. I can dig out a copy if needed. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Dec 15 18:58:10 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Are HP 2671's repairable? References: <41C0D830.60508@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <001701c4e30a$50fc0bd0$0100a8c0@screamer> Are parts available to repair a HP 2671G printer? I'd like to replace the geared belt that drives the print-head. I'm not at all sure that the head can be removed from this belt so I may be talking about a complete head and belt assembly which I'd assume is unobtainium. If its just a matter of attaching the head to a replacement belt, does anyone have the specs or a source for the belt? Apparently whatever these belts are made of gets old in a bad way, they become sticky and brittle, both are bad for drive belts. Given this, I'm assuming even a new-old stock drive belt would not be servicable. From tponsford at theriver.com Sun Dec 12 01:38:44 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Auction Finds Message-ID: <41BBF584.9040906@theriver.com> A couple of good auction finds at the U of A. tuesday: A DECWriter Correspondent which is a somewhat portable printer/terminal. This one was the model B which doesn't have the acoustic coupler, but has the internal modem and a 9600 baud EIA port. What was great about this find is that it came with the origianl Digital brown canvas traveling case and all the documentation (Operator's manual, reference cards and Programmer's manual) plus a spare ribbon cartridge. It is really, REALLY, clean. with absolutely no wear on the keypads and NO discoloration of the plastic, which make me believe it wasn't used recently, or at all! I was amazed about the ink ribbon, when I did run the print test the text was nice and crisp. Remember this is SE arizona where it is drier than a celebrity at the Sierra Tucson detox clinic. This is a circa 1982 machine too! The other find was a Heathkit H-19 terminal which I promptly sold to another fellow collector. The last was a 10 year old, big, Emerson UPS, model AP115 (1.5 KVA, 1050 watt). It unfortunatly, did not have the batteries, but was in working condition and for $2.50, I couldn't resist. I think it has a 96 volt capcity and looks like it can hold quitea few of the small 12 volt VRLA batteries. It had two heavy duty cables exiting the bottom of the case which leads me to believe it might have had an external battery case. I'm trying to find some documentation, any help would be appreciated. Cheers Tom -- --- Please do not read this sig. If you have read this far, please unread back to the beginning. From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Dec 15 19:01:59 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Stupid TI power supply In-Reply-To: <41C0D830.60508@gjcp.net> References: <41C0D830.60508@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <51253.64.139.41.130.1103158919.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > But across which pins??? The power connector on the terminal has three > pins. Which ones want voltage and which one wants ground? Gordon wrote: > Look inside it. In any case, since it's AC, it doesn't *matter* which > is voltage and which is ground. There's no "polarity" as such, since > the secondary of the transformer is going to be floating. Sure, but the third pin isn't necessarily floating with regard to the other two. For instance, if the third pin is a center tap on the secondary, leaving it open may cause problems. Possibly including damage to the device, since unbalanced loads between the ends and the center tap will drag it around. For instance, suppose it's 18V RMS CT. The peak voltage between the ends of the secondary will be about 25.4V, and the peak between either end and the center tap will be about 12.7V. But suppose the center tap is open, and there is three times the load between one end and the center tap as between the other end and the center tap. The voltage between the ends will still have a peak of 25.4V, but the third terminal will now peak at 19V from one end and only 6.3V from the other. If there's electronics in the device that was designed for the nominal 12.7V peak and can't withstand the 19V peak, damage may occur. This is just like losing the neutral connection on AC power distribution. On the other hand, the third pin of the connector could be a safety ground that may or may not be electrically connected to the transformer secondary. Sellam is quite right that he needs to know what the third pin is supposed to be. From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Dec 15 19:09:11 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: DECwriters (was Re: Auction Finds) In-Reply-To: <41BBF584.9040906@theriver.com> References: <41BBF584.9040906@theriver.com> Message-ID: <51749.64.139.41.130.1103159351.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Tom Ponsford wrote: > A DECWriter Correspondent which is a somewhat portable printer/terminal. > This one was the model B which doesn't have the acoustic coupler, but Is that an LA34 or an LA38? I get the later DECwriter models confused. Anyhow, that's a nice find. Does anyone have any spare keyswitches (or complete keyboard assemblies) for the DECwriter II, III, or older DEC keyboards? I need a replacement keyswitch for an LK40 keyboard for a GT40 terminal, and I think a DECwriter keyswitch may be the same (or at least interchangeable). But I don't want to remove one from an otherwise good DECwriter. I'm still hoping to find an APL DECwriter II. The APL character generator and keycaps were available as a field-installed option to the LA36, or the DECwriter II could be ordered preconfigured for APL as an LA37. Eric From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 15 19:02:31 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Off the wall CGA monitor question In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Dec 15, 4 01:56:59 pm Message-ID: > That's a good point. The question is probably moot, but I do believe the > connector coming off the CGA monitor would be universally male. Call it > an educated guess. years ago I built a CGA monitor. Or rather I converted an NEC monitor that had been used with an Apple ][ to have the intensity input (it had 3 TTL inputs as standard). I had to change the input connector, so I mounted a male DE9 on the monitor and used a male-female lead to link it to the CGA card. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 15 19:15:41 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:24 2005 Subject: Are HP 2671's repairable? In-Reply-To: <001701c4e30a$50fc0bd0$0100a8c0@screamer> from "Bob Shannon" at Dec 15, 4 07:58:10 pm Message-ID: I have one of these printers..... I think this is the device with the contradictory notices on the bottom. One says something like 'Do not remove cover, no user serviceable parts inside'. The other says 'To remove cover, undo the 4 indicated screws'. Hmm... When I got mine, it didn't have any paper in it. I guessed thermal fax paper would work (it does), but the shop I went to only had 210mm wide rolls (European standard), the 2671 (and US fax machines, I think) take 216mm wide paper. Well, I spent a bit of time making a couple of spacers to fit on the end of the roll spindle to get it in the right place, and it worked pretty well. But I was darn annoyed when I went to a different branch of the same shop to find they also had 216mm wide fax paper... > > Are parts available to repair a HP 2671G printer? Some are, some aren't, I guess. Much of the electronics, for example, is standard TTL chips.... > > I'd like to replace the geared belt that drives the print-head. > I'm not at all sure that the head can be removed from this belt It's been a long sime since I've been inside mine, and I don't really want to strip it down tonight. How is the belt fixed to the head. I would guess they can be separated (normally it's possible to replace just the belt on HP thermal printers). > so I may be talking about a complete head and belt assembly > which I'd assume is unobtainium. > > If its just a matter of attaching the head to a replacement > belt, does anyone have the specs or a source for the belt? Can you not measure up the old belt, measure the pitch of the teeth on the sprockets, etc? -tony From sethm at loomcom.com Wed Dec 15 19:24:06 2004 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: DECwriters (was Re: Auction Finds) In-Reply-To: <51749.64.139.41.130.1103159351.squirrel@64.139.41.130> References: <41BBF584.9040906@theriver.com> <51749.64.139.41.130.1103159351.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: <20041216012406.GA14663@loomcom.com> On Wed, Dec 15, 2004 at 05:09:11PM -0800, Eric Smith wrote: > Tom Ponsford wrote: > > A DECWriter Correspondent which is a somewhat portable printer/terminal. > > This one was the model B which doesn't have the acoustic coupler, but > > Is that an LA34 or an LA38? I get the later DECwriter models confused. > Anyhow, that's a nice find. It's an LA12 -- I would offer configuration docs, but I see he has them already. Cool find! When I last had one of these (1998), I was still able to order ribbons from Dig^H^H^H Comp^H^H^H^H HP. You may still be able to. At the time I called 1-800-DIGITAL, which mysteriously still worked. I doubt it would work today, but it's worth a try. (Maybe you'll get a bored housewife in Montana and you'll have a lovely conversation) > Eric -Seth -- "It looks just like a Telefunken U47! Seth Morabito You'll love it." - Frank Zappa sethm@loomcom.com From pat at computer-refuge.org Wed Dec 15 19:25:18 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? In-Reply-To: <000f01c4e308$7b22fab0$6501a8c0@ibm6go1addn6c0> References: <41B398E8.2010400@oldskool.org> <000f01c4e308$7b22fab0$6501a8c0@ibm6go1addn6c0> Message-ID: <200412152025.18729.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Wednesday 15 December 2004 19:45, Paul A. Pennington wrote: > There was one 8-bit ISA hard disk controller card for the IBM PC > or XT that would do a 1:1 interleave, from Patterson Labs. Don't > know how they did it, but they worked. They were always unusual, > probably impossible to find today, but Google it. > > RLL was way too fast for the PC/XT bus at 1:1 interleave, but > there was at least one 8-bit controller from Seagate that worked with > only one 30 MB IDE drive. I don't remember the numbers. They would > work with a higher interleave, 3 or 4 sounds about right. Why not just get a SCSI controller? Surely you can get an AHA-1542 or something to work on an 8-bit bus, and it'll probably have better performance (and easier to find disks) than any IDE or MFM/RLL (ST-506) controller for the era. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Dec 15 19:25:29 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Are HP 2671's repairable? Message-ID: <200412160125.RAA14923@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Bob There used to be a place around here called Motion Industries. I believe they changed there name but they were a nation wide company and had branches across the nation. They carried all the standard cogged belts and such. I'm sure they'd have what you need. They might still have the same name or something similar. It has been a few years since I used them ( like about 10 or so ). Dwight >From: "Bob Shannon" > >Are parts available to repair a HP 2671G printer? > >I'd like to replace the geared belt that drives the print-head. >I'm not at all sure that the head can be removed from this belt >so I may be talking about a complete head and belt assembly >which I'd assume is unobtainium. > >If its just a matter of attaching the head to a replacement >belt, does anyone have the specs or a source for the belt? > >Apparently whatever these belts are made of gets old in a >bad way, they become sticky and brittle, both are bad for >drive belts. > >Given this, I'm assuming even a new-old stock drive belt would >not be servicable. > From williams.dan at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 19:30:18 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: windows 2000 Message-ID: <26c11a6404121517307511244b@mail.gmail.com> I know this is a bad subject, but I was reading an article about windows nt and the influence dec had on it. In the article it said that compaq kept development of windows 2000 up to 1999 on Alphas. Has anyone here seen it running on an Alpha and do you know if many people developed software to run on it. I knew they had NT on a lot of architectures but 2000 is a new one. Thanks Dan From tponsford at theriver.com Sun Dec 12 02:10:24 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: DECwriters (was Re: Auction Finds) In-Reply-To: <51749.64.139.41.130.1103159351.squirrel@64.139.41.130> References: <41BBF584.9040906@theriver.com> <51749.64.139.41.130.1103159351.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: <41BBFCF0.10809@theriver.com> Eric Smith wrote: >>A DECWriter Correspondent which is a somewhat portable printer/terminal. > Is that an LA34 or an LA38? Neither, It's a LA12!!! Cheers Tom > -- --- Please do not read this sig. If you have read this far, please unread back to the beginning. From tomj at wps.com Wed Dec 15 20:19:41 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Stupid TI power supply In-Reply-To: <51253.64.139.41.130.1103158919.squirrel@64.139.41.130> References: <41C0D830.60508@gjcp.net> <51253.64.139.41.130.1103158919.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: > > But across which pins??? The power connector on the terminal has three > > pins. Which ones want voltage and which one wants ground? You can almost certainly figure all this out from you now-smashed P.S. Smack it to smaller bits so's you can see how it's physically wired. It's even possible thr 3rd pin isn't used, tied to one of the others, ground, etc. If there's only two wires in the cable, etc. I'll try to look at mine tonight. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Dec 15 19:53:16 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Are HP 2671's repairable? In-Reply-To: <001701c4e30a$50fc0bd0$0100a8c0@screamer> References: <41C0D830.60508@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041215205316.0096ee60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:58 PM 12/15/04 -0500, you wrote: >Are parts available to repair a HP 2671G printer? > >I'd like to replace the geared belt that drives the print-head. >I'm not at all sure that the head can be removed from this belt >so I may be talking about a complete head and belt assembly >which I'd assume is unobtainium. > >If its just a matter of attaching the head to a replacement >belt, does anyone have the specs or a source for the belt? > >Apparently whatever these belts are made of gets old in a >bad way, they become sticky and brittle, both are bad for >drive belts. > >Given this, I'm assuming even a new-old stock drive belt would >not be servicable. > Bob, I just send you a message about this but here's an additional comment. >Given this, I'm assuming even a new-old stock drive belt would >not be servicable. I took some old belts out of a HP-85 and took them to an industrial belting company (Florida Belting) and they matched them up with current production belts. Their belts are orange and I think they're made of Kevlar so they shouldn't have the melting problem. Joe > From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Wed Dec 15 21:05:06 2004 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Amiga 3000 Mother Board replacement In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041215205316.0096ee60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <41C0D830.60508@gjcp.net> <3.0.6.32.20041215205316.0096ee60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041215215031.03189460@pop-server> I have a friend with an Amiga 3000. It appears that the backup battery has leaked on the mother board causing it to no longer function. Does anyone know where to find a replacement motherboard? Any other suggestions would be appreciated. From paulpenn at knology.net Wed Dec 15 21:27:35 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul A. Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? References: <41B398E8.2010400@oldskool.org><000f01c4e308$7b22fab0$6501a8c0@ibm6go1addn6c0> <200412152025.18729.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <002001c4e31f$2f917650$6501a8c0@ibm6go1addn6c0> Patrick said: > Why not just get a SCSI controller? Not an option for me -- I don't know anything about SCSI -- never owned one. "When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail." What kind of interleave performance could you get with an 8-bit SCSI controller? Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 15 21:37:01 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700 power supplies In-Reply-To: <200412152321.PAA14885@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Dec 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > > > >On Wed, 15 Dec 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > > > >> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >> > >> > Because there are three conductors sockets on the end plug and I don't > >> > know what is supposed to be on each one. > >> > >> Well, 20 VAC between the ends, don't know about the middle. > > > >Ok, that's good information, but for good measure it would be nice to know > >what the voltage is across the middle pin and either end pin. > > > >Thanks! > > > > Hi Sellam > Do all the pins show low ohms to each other? It might > be a center tap or even just a ground lead that doesn't > carry current. Since you have the box open, you should be > able to see where all the wires go. Well, I would have had the wires not broken off on the last whack that got the casing opened :( As it is I cannot tell what each one was connected to. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Wed Dec 15 22:14:34 2004 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: question re HP 264x terminals Message-ID: <000001c4e325$c094f860$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> Which HP 264x terminals used 8008 cpus? I know that the 2640 and 2644 did - but did the 2648 or any others in the series also use it? What is the HP p/n for the 8008 in this application? Jack From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 22:31:45 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? In-Reply-To: <002001c4e31f$2f917650$6501a8c0@ibm6go1addn6c0> References: <41B398E8.2010400@oldskool.org> <000f01c4e308$7b22fab0$6501a8c0@ibm6go1addn6c0> <200412152025.18729.pat@computer-refuge.org> <002001c4e31f$2f917650$6501a8c0@ibm6go1addn6c0> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 22:27:35 -0500, Paul A. Pennington wrote: > What kind of interleave performance could you get with an 8-bit SCSI > controller? You don't format SCSI drives for different interleaves, unless you happen to be fiddling with, say, an Adaptec bridge controller with an MFM or RLL drive on the other side. What you _do_ get, is the ability to use modernish drives (subject to capacity limitations of your controller BIOS, esp. in the case of an AHA1542A) that may have hundreds of K or a few megabytes of on-disk buffering. With those drives, your application asks for a block, and the drive itself reads-ahead so the next few blocks are delivered from the on-disk RAM cache... relieving you from the need to worry about interleave. Do you have a good grasp of why older machines had to worry about interleave in the first place? The controller read and converted analog signals in real-time, no track buffering. Controllers that are not analog in nature allow the drive to do whatever it likes, since the controller is just going to ask for a block whenever the drive gets around to it. This is not to say that the drive doesn't have an interleave (older ones might), but it does take the need to interact with the drive surface away from your list of concerns. The reason for different values (1:1, 5:1...) have to do with how fast the disk rotates and how long it takes for the host to be ready to slurp up the next sector. If your controller or host machine isn't fast enough, you might as well use a huge interleave to save a full rotation waiting for that block to come around again. Obviously, the ideal situation is 1:1 interleave - one rotation means you can slurp up an entire track without other delays. I don't recall this being a common situation until the days of the AT. I remember 1:3 to 1:5 interleaves being ordinary in the hey-day of the 8-bit PC and XT. So... back to what the orginal poster said, if you can find a DMA-capable 8-bit SCSI controller and a modernish drive (4GB and newer would have much larger disk caches than you have physical memory), you might be able to severerly reduce rotational delay (and seek time as a consequence of using newer drives than, say, an ST225 w/65 ms average seeks) enough to make a difference. -ethan From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Dec 15 23:34:37 2004 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700 power supplies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Dec 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 15 Dec 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > > Do all the pins show low ohms to each other? It might be a center tap > > or even just a ground lead that doesn't carry current. Since you have > > the box open, you should be able to see where all the wires go. > > Well, I would have had the wires not broken off on the last whack that > got the casing opened :( As it is I cannot tell what each one was > connected to. I decided to pull my Silent 700 out of storage tonight, however it turns out the power supply seems to be MIA. I guess it got separated from the terminal the last time I moved things around when I was bringing in the batch of Alpha and VAX systems I got this year. I'll take a multimeter to my terminal later, but if the power supply has a ground pin on the line plug, the center pin of the 3 pin molex connector would very likely be a ground. Since the terminals were usually connected to telephone equipment, it would make sense that TI provided a ground back then. Its also possible that the center pin is a center tap for the transformer, but since I can't find my power supply, I really can't say for sure without looking at the internals of the terminal. On the topic of battery packs, the cells that make up the batteries used in these terminals are still available. Each of the two battery packs is made up of 4 series wired EnerSys (formerly Hawker Energy (formerly Gates)) Cyclon "D" 2V cells. As of now, the part number for these is 0810-0004. The battery packs each have an in-line fuse, but I'm not sure what the rating is or where it is wired in. The positive lead of the packs terminates to the keyed/pointed end of the molex connector. The cells that make up genuine TI battery packs do not have any markings on them but they are a very distinctive type of cell and only one company makes them. They are a sealed lead acid cell with a spiral wound grid type plate. Due to their unique design, it is not uncommon to get 15-20 years of service life out of them if they are properly charged and maintained (I've replaced a number of 15+ year old cells that finally quit holding a full charge). I've used these type of cells extensively in data collection and remote monitoring / standby applications. For detailed information on the individual cells see: http://www.enersysreservepower.com/cyc_b.asp?brandID=4 -Toth From Saquinn624 at aol.com Thu Dec 16 00:02:32 2004 From: Saquinn624 at aol.com (Saquinn624@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN & Even Message-ID: <90.53298e03.2ef27ef8@aol.com> I seem to have spoken too quickly, put my foot in my mouth, and in the process created a synthetic monster and slandered Even. I was unaware of what was going on. Please consider this my apology. From news at computercollector.com Thu Dec 16 00:06:25 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: NEXT@CNN & Even In-Reply-To: <90.53298e03.2ef27ef8@aol.com> Message-ID: <20041216060626.58617.qmail@web52804.mail.yahoo.com> Apology accepted. FYI, rule #4: no matter what you report that's wrong, at least spell the subject's name correctly. EVAN. :) --- Saquinn624@aol.com wrote: > I seem to have spoken too quickly, put my foot in my mouth, and in the > process created a synthetic monster and slandered Even. I was unaware of > what was > going on. Please consider this my apology. > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 600 readers and counting! From Saquinn624 at aol.com Thu Dec 16 00:18:25 2004 From: Saquinn624 at aol.com (Saquinn624@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Indigo/SGI drives Message-ID: On all of my replaced SCSI drives, I use SCA adaptors and SCA drives- much easier to get nowadays than 50 pin models, and also newer. Any drive will work-they do not need special firmware The deal for SGI sleds is as follows- The 50 pin cable goes into the 50 pin narrow SCSI socket on the adaptor- self explanitory The power cable will often need to be teased out a little longer (at least on Indigo2, I don't have my Indigo sled at hand) For the SCSI ID cable (the 6-pin bit) you will need a VOM/DMM. One side will have a bank of 3 wires, the other will have 1 wire. On the adaptor, there will be 3 pins wired together -> these are ground, connect to the single pin side. The other wires set the SCSI ID based on which slot in the Indigo the drive is installed If you choose to hardwire the drive (not as neat, but a definite possibility), remember that on IRISes the host adapter is ID 0, so the first (system) disk is ID 1- and so on. Most computers have the host adapter as ID #7, but not Siggys. Best of luck to you, they are very neat machines, with a slick UI (Indigo Magic)- For IRIX 5.3 be sure to get the free IDO (Development Option-compilers and headers, available from www.sgi.com) Scott Quinn From vp at cs.drexel.edu Thu Dec 16 00:32:36 2004 From: vp at cs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Are HP 2671's repairable? Message-ID: <200412160632.iBG6WaSP000630@queen.cs.drexel.edu> BTW if you are looking for the manual for the HP 2671A and G its available at: http://www.series80.org/Manuals/index.html#HP2671 **vp From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Dec 16 01:39:58 2004 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? Message-ID: eight bit controllers to look for: Seagate ST-05X Xt to IDE Seagate ST-11M MFM Seagate ST-11R RLL SMS/OMTI 5520 MFM SMS/OMTI 5527 RLL Western Digital WD XT140 IDE note: separate cables - 2 drives Western Digital WD XT150R IDE note: 1 drive only Western Digital WD XTGEN MFM Western Digital WD XTGEN2 MFM best interleave I think -0 bigger capacity Western Digital WD XTGENR RLL Western Digital WD 1002-WX1 MFM slow interleave Western Digital WD 1002-27X RLL slow interleave Western Digital WD 1004-WX1 MFM better interleave bigger capacity Western Digital WD 1004-27X RLL better interleave Hope this helps. Paxton From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Thu Dec 16 04:07:31 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: electro-Physics: 17.3409 volts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1103191651.2570.37.camel@fortran> On Wed, 2004-12-15 at 13:44 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Gee, that sure brightened up my day... > > Pun [un]intended? I had to stop myself from replying "Well, it sure brightened up my living room" - and I just failed. :) -- Tore S Bekkedal From gordon at gjcp.net Thu Dec 16 04:11:53 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Stupid TI power supply In-Reply-To: <51253.64.139.41.130.1103158919.squirrel@64.139.41.130> References: <41C0D830.60508@gjcp.net> <51253.64.139.41.130.1103158919.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: <41C15F69.2070803@gjcp.net> Eric Smith wrote: > Sellam is quite right that he needs to know what the third pin is > supposed to be. Which is why I said to look inside the terminal! I think I've got one of these in my Mum's loft. Next time I'm up north I'll try and dig it out. I'm pretty sure it ran just fine on around 18VAC across the outer two pins. Gordon. From wacarder at usit.net Thu Dec 16 08:23:35 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 RX01 bootstrap ROM Message-ID: <002101c4e37a$d4a895f0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> I'm looking for an M9312 bootstrap ROM for an RX01 drive. I believe the DEC number on the chip is 753A9. Does anyone have one of these that they would be willing to get rid of? I have other M9312 ROMs to trade. Thanks, Ashley From vax9000 at gmail.com Thu Dec 16 08:22:47 2004 From: vax9000 at gmail.com (9000 VAX) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 RX01 bootstrap ROM In-Reply-To: <002101c4e37a$d4a895f0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> References: <002101c4e37a$d4a895f0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 09:23:35 -0500, Ashley Carder wrote: > I'm looking for an M9312 bootstrap ROM for an RX01 drive. I believe the DEC number on the chip is 753A9. Does anyone have one of these that they would be willing to get rid of? I have other M9312 ROMs to trade. Burn one by yourself? The boot ROM can be found in simh, file PDP11/pdp11_rx.c vax, 9000 > > Thanks, > Ashley > From CPUMECH at aol.com Thu Dec 16 08:36:10 2004 From: CPUMECH at aol.com (CPUMECH@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: DECwriters (was Re: Auction Finds) Message-ID: <82.1d9dfa57.2ef2f75a@aol.com> Those keyswitches are actually contacts that need a special tool for replacement. I used to do hundreds of them at Dataterm Inc. They still have the contacts and inserts for those keybds.Give them a call @ 781-938-1010 or e-mail - service@dataterm.com From CPUMECH at aol.com Thu Dec 16 08:40:57 2004 From: CPUMECH at aol.com (CPUMECH@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700 power supplies Message-ID: <13e.8a6ff59.2ef2f879@aol.com> Call Dataterm they still have original working TI 703/707 power supplies or AC adapters p/n2310442-0001. Probably get 0ne for $10 plus shipping. From wacarder at usit.net Thu Dec 16 08:51:44 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 RX01 bootstrap ROM References: <002101c4e37a$d4a895f0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Message-ID: <000a01c4e37e$c35b46e0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> > > I'm looking for an M9312 bootstrap ROM for an RX01 drive. I believe the DEC number on the chip is 753A9. Does anyone have one of these that they would be willing to get rid of? I have other M9312 ROMs to trade. > > Burn one by yourself? The boot ROM can be found in simh, file PDP11/pdp11_rx.c > > vax, 9000 I don't have the equipment to burn one, so I was just looking to take the easy way out and get one that's ready for me to plug into my M9312 and run. I'm hooking up an RX01 to my 11/40 and want to be able to boot from it without having to toggle in the bootstrap code. The fun wears off after the second or third time of toggling in that code! Ashley From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Dec 16 09:08:04 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: DECwriters (was Re: Auction Finds) References: <41BBF584.9040906@theriver.com> <51749.64.139.41.130.1103159351.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: <16833.42196.287121.629019@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Eric" == Eric Smith writes: Eric> Does anyone have any spare keyswitches (or complete keyboard Eric> assemblies) for the DECwriter II, III, or older DEC keyboards? Eric> I need a replacement keyswitch for an LK40 keyboard for a GT40 Eric> terminal, and I think a DECwriter keyswitch may be the same (or Eric> at least interchangeable). But I don't want to remove one from Eric> an otherwise good DECwriter. The GT40 keyboards I remember have the same awful keyswitches that were used (and cursed) on the LA30 -- and replaced in the LA36 and VT50 by a new design that worked far better. Some old memory says that the issue was in the mechanical part -- the plungers would stick, while on the VT52 they never did. I don't know if the switch contacts were different. (In the VT52/LA36 at least, they are gold plated wedge shaped contacts that are held apart when the key is up.) It may also be that the GT40 came both ways depending on age. One way to tell was the shape of the keycaps -- the old crummy design had oversize keycap tops, while the VT52 keyboard had keycaps with more taper to the sides and more beveling, so the tops looked more like what you see on everyone else's keyboard. paul From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Dec 16 09:05:27 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? In-Reply-To: References: <41B398E8.2010400@oldskool.org> <000f01c4e308$7b22fab0$6501a8c0@ibm6go1addn6c0> <200412152025.18729.pat@computer-refuge.org> <002001c4e31f$2f917650$6501a8c0@ibm6go1addn6c0> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041216085922.050cf678@pc> At 10:31 PM 12/15/2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: >So... back to what the orginal poster said, if you can find a >DMA-capable 8-bit SCSI controller and a modernish drive (4GB and newer >would have much larger disk caches than you have physical memory), you >might be able to severerly reduce rotational delay (and seek time as a >consequence of using newer drives than, say, an ST225 w/65 ms average >seeks) enough to make a difference. I think we can all see how classic computing and emulation will continue to flourish in the future, hand in hand. As old functioning drives decay into Unobtainium, or worse yet along the way climb back up the price curve from yesterday's "too small, take it off my hands" near-zero price to the exact-replacement near-former-retail or worse prices, we'll need more emulation hardware and software. Many forms of RAM (non-volatile or not) are nearly free now, in sizes larger than old hard drives. We just need the building blocks to interconnect them to older devices. - John From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Dec 15 21:29:51 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Amiga 3000 Mother Board replacement In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041215215031.03189460@pop-server> References: <41C0D830.60508@gjcp.net> <3.0.6.32.20041215205316.0096ee60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041215215031.03189460@pop-server> Message-ID: <1062.66.112.69.195.1103210991.squirrel@66.112.69.195> Best bet would be to find one on e-bay, or www.softhut.com. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO > I have a friend with an Amiga 3000. It appears that the backup battery has > leaked on the mother board causing it to no longer function. > > Does anyone know where to find a replacement motherboard? > > Any other suggestions would be appreciated. > > From allain at panix.com Thu Dec 16 10:15:05 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 RX01 bootstrap ROM References: <002101c4e37a$d4a895f0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <000a01c4e37e$c35b46e0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Message-ID: <006b01c4e38a$67eb91a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > The fun wears off after the second or third time > of toggling in that code! Wouldn't VTserver also be a way out here? John A. From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 16 10:25:02 2004 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Cooking, fractions & reply attribution... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041213163934.0493c7a0@mail.30below.com> References: <30061503.1102971317809.JavaMail.root@huey.psp.pas.earthlin k.net> <30061503.1102971317809.JavaMail.root@huey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20041213163934.0493c7a0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <41C1B6DE.6050400@sbcglobal.net> Roger Merchberger wrote: > > P.P.S. John: You know there is a way of forcing Spewdora to put the > person's name in the attribution, instead of defaulting to 'you'? In the > eudora.ini file, you could add a line similar to: > ReplyAttribution=Rumor has it that %2 may have mentioned these words: > The %2 replaces 'you' with the name of the person in the 'From:' header. Cool. Is there a listing as to any other variables that can be used? Like date and time stuff? -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From paulpenn at knology.net Thu Dec 16 10:50:43 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul A. Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? References: Message-ID: <003f01c4e38f$623dc3e0$6501a8c0@ibm6go1addn6c0> Paxton wrote: > ...eight bit controllers to look for: > > Seagate ST-05X XT to IDE... Yeah! That's the one. I didn't know about the Western Digital versions back when I was selling these. I Googled and found the Seagate drive I used to use with this controller: the ST-351AX, a 43 MB IDE drive that could be jumpered for either 8 or 16 bit controllers. I also stumbled into a beautifully done web site that shows some great pictures and descriptions of many of these early hard drives: http://www.redhill.net.au/d-a.html Really jangled some old brain cells. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia From truthanl at columbus.rr.com Thu Dec 16 11:21:01 2004 From: truthanl at columbus.rr.com (truthanl@columbus.rr.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Need help with 2 projects (TI and Xerox) Message-ID: <12dc97212e17ff.12e17ff12dc972@columbus.rr.com> Marty Greene, There are others of us who have TI 990/systems in storage. I have 2 990/10 systems. DX-10 OS with 10M cartridge (CDC?)drives. Mine came from a Paradyne Corp Modem Analysis system tracking 300 Paradyne 2400 Baud multi-drop circuits on an 800 hz subcarrier over dedicated lines. So I have lots of serial ports...Each modem had data and an analysis port. Sincerely Larry Truthan I may also have a Xerox Sigma diagnostics tape and or journal somewhere in the basement. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Dec 16 11:47:19 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Stupid TI power supply In-Reply-To: <51253.64.139.41.130.1103158919.squirrel@64.139.41.130> References: <41C0D830.60508@gjcp.net> <51253.64.139.41.130.1103158919.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: <200412161752.MAA02331@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> ["Eric Smith" ] > Sure, but the third pin isn't necessarily floating with regard to the > other two. It is if you leave it unconnected. > For instance, if the third pin is a center tap on the > secondary, leaving it open may cause problems. Possibly including > damage to the device, since unbalanced loads between the ends and the > center tap will drag it around. If the centre-tap is left open, there will be no loads, balanced or not, between it and anywhere; it then becomes equivalent to an otherwise similar transformer with no centre-tap at all. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From vax9000 at gmail.com Thu Dec 16 12:01:46 2004 From: vax9000 at gmail.com (9000 VAX) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: vaxbrick 4000-50? Message-ID: I saw an ebay auction about a vaxbrick 4000-50. What is a vaxbrick 4000-50? I googled and didn't find much information. I'd guess that it uses NVAX cpu. But, what is the the clock frequency, and how big is the cache? What memory options does it support? vax, 9000 From wacarder at usit.net Thu Dec 16 12:19:12 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 RX01 bootstrap ROM References: <002101c4e37a$d4a895f0$f71b0f14@wcarder1><000a01c4e37e$c35b46e0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <006b01c4e38a$67eb91a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <001401c4e39b$bef8d0f0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> > > The fun wears off after the second or third time > > of toggling in that code! > > Wouldn't VTserver also be a way out here? > > John A. Yeah, I could load up the bootstrap code in a PC file and run VTServer and have it load and run the bootstrap file. But then I'd have to have my PC hooked up as the console. I'm trying to run my configuration using all 1970s vintage hardware and peripherals. - A From RCini at congressfinancial.com Thu Dec 16 13:00:43 2004 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Altair switch handle measurements Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E501EAEF4A@mail10.congressfinancial.com> Hello, all: If anyone has access to an Altair 8800 (the original model) and can measure the toggle switch handles, I would greatly appreciate it. I need the length of the handle from the top of the threaded collar to the end of the handle. Thanks a lot. Rich From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Thu Dec 16 13:19:18 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: vaxbrick 4000-50? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <006301c4e3a4$2536da30$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > I saw an ebay auction about a vaxbrick 4000-50. What is a vaxbrick > 4000-50? I googled and didn't find much information. I'd guess that it > uses NVAX cpu. But, what is the the clock frequency, and how big is > the cache? What memory options does it support? I'll see if I can dig up any documents, but from memory, it was a pretty rare upgrade. You swapped it in place of the CPU on one of the other MicroVAX systems of the time - possibly a VAX 4000-200 (or similar)? I don't seem to have any docs on it at all. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 16 13:43:13 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: DECwriters (was Re: Auction Finds) In-Reply-To: <82.1d9dfa57.2ef2f75a@aol.com> References: <82.1d9dfa57.2ef2f75a@aol.com> Message-ID: <48992.64.139.41.130.1103226193.squirrel@64.139.41.130> CPUMECH wrote: > Those keyswitches are actually contacts that need a special tool for > replacement. I can't just desolder the entire keyswitch assembly from the PCB and solder in a new one? Sigh. > Dataterm Inc. They still have the > contacts and inserts for those keybds.Give them a call I suppose I had best study the LK40 keyswitches as compared to those of the LA36 first; if they're not the same there's no point wasting their time. One of the plastic key stems is broken, and the spring is missing. I do have the broken-off portion of the stem and the keycap. I'm not sure what kind of plastic it is, nor what adhesive to use. Eric From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 16 14:03:29 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Stupid TI power supply In-Reply-To: <200412161752.MAA02331@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <41C0D830.60508@gjcp.net> <51253.64.139.41.130.1103158919.squirrel@64.139.41.130> <200412161752.MAA02331@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <51047.64.139.41.130.1103227409.squirrel@64.139.41.130> I wrote: >> For instance, if the third pin is a center tap on the >> secondary, leaving it open may cause problems. Possibly including >> damage to the device, since unbalanced loads between the ends and the >> center tap will drag it around. der Mouse wrote: > If the centre-tap is left open, there will be no loads, balanced or > not, between it and anywhere; Incorrect, as explained below. > it then becomes equivalent to an > otherwise similar transformer with no centre-tap at all. The transformer, yes, but the loads will have problems. Imagine a circuit with a transformer with a 24VAC RMS center-tapped secondary: ______ ________________ \ || / __|__ / || \ load1 20 ohm resistive load \ || / _____ 120VAC / || \_______________| \ || / __|__ / || \ load2 60 ohm resistive load \ || / _____ ______/ || \_______________| With everything wired correctly, the loads will each see 12VAC RMS. Ohm's law tells us that load 1 will draw 600 mA RMS, and load 2 will draw 200 mA RMS. Now break the center tap connection. From your statement you apparently expect that the loads will get no power at all. But that's not what happens, because the loads are in series and there is still a complete electrical circuit, albeit not the intended one. Instead, now the loads form a voltage divider. The current through both loads must now be the same. Since the combined load has a series resistance of 80 ohms, the current must be 300 mA RMS. Using Ohm's law we can calculate that load 1 will see 6VAC RMS, and load 2 will see 18VAC RMS. If load 2 was not designed to tolerate the higher-than-expected voltage and current, it may be damaged. And that's for constant purely resistive loads. When the loads vary, as is typical with most electronic devices, the voltage across each load will also vary. As I stated earlier, this is exactly the kind of problem you have with split-phase or three-phase electrical mains wiring when the neutral connection in faulty, and that commonly leads to destruction of equipment. I have a wall-wart that originally had a flat front surface (the side opposite the plug), but due to a lost neutral on a three-phase circuit, the front is now hemispherical! I'd have to conclude that the electrical and/or thermal fuse in the wall-wart did not do its job correctly; it eventually fused but it should have done so much sooner. Eric From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 16 14:17:09 2004 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: windows 2000 In-Reply-To: <26c11a6404121517307511244b@mail.gmail.com> References: <26c11a6404121517307511244b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41C1ED45.9080002@sbcglobal.net> Dan Williams wrote: > I know this is a bad subject, but I was reading an article about > windows nt and the influence dec had on it. In the article it said > that compaq kept development of windows 2000 up to 1999 on Alphas. > Has anyone here seen it running on an Alpha and do you know if many > people developed software to run on it. I knew they had NT on a lot of > architectures but 2000 is a new one. > > Thanks > Dan > Yep, Windows 2000 Beta RC 2128 does exist for the Alpha. As for developed software, I'm not too sure if there is all that much. There is a (currently quiet) mailing list for people who still use NT4 & W2K on their Alphas. Browse over to http://www.alphant.com/... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From cvendel at att.net Thu Dec 16 14:40:23 2004 From: cvendel at att.net (cvendel@att.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Vintage Edison Recorder... Message-ID: <121620042040.6858.41C1F2B6000DA74200001ACA2160280741040A0B020A900C@att.net> This is OT, however, If anyone is into historical items, this is something you should have a gander at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38029&item=2294570490&rd=1 True piece of early Edison history there! Curt From sethm at loomcom.com Thu Dec 16 14:42:40 2004 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: WTB: DECstation 5000/1xx Message-ID: <20041216204240.GA19538@loomcom.com> I'm looking for a DECstation 5000, a fairly recent and marginally classic MIPS workstation DEC sold in the early 1990s. (Well, it's classic to me for nostalgia reasons, but I won't get into that). I'm specifically looking for a 5000/133 or /150, but really any 5000 will do. I'd be happy to pay shipping and a reasonable price (reasonable being something in the < $50 range, since that seems to be the going rate), and/or I have a MicroVAX 3100 (desktop case, 16MB RAM, 1GB disk, 8 serial lines) I'd be happy to trade. If anyone has a lead on one, please let me know! -Seth -- "It looks just like a Telefunken U47! Seth Morabito You'll love it." - Frank Zappa sethm@loomcom.com From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Dec 16 15:07:20 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: WTB: DECstation 5000/1xx In-Reply-To: <20041216204240.GA19538@loomcom.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041216160048.04ee3b78@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Seth Morabito may have mentioned these words: >I'm looking for a DECstation 5000, a fairly recent and marginally >classic MIPS workstation DEC sold in the early 1990s. (Well, >it's classic to me for nostalgia reasons, but I won't get into >that). I'm specifically looking for a 5000/133 or /150, but >really any 5000 will do. > >I'd be happy to pay shipping and a reasonable price (reasonable being >something in the < $50 range, since that seems to be the going rate), >and/or I have a MicroVAX 3100 (desktop case, 16MB RAM, 1GB disk, >8 serial lines) I'd be happy to trade. I believe I have one... I have no idea as to what it has onboard, but I could check. I don't know if I have a functioning keyboard/mouse for it, but I do have the video cable, and quite possible a monitor for it if you need. I could check 'er out & let you know what it's got... Trade is good, but I've got a couple MVax 3100's, and a couple of VaxStation 3100's (one packed to the *gills* - it really is a dream system...) -- anything SS50 or S100 bus, 6809 or 68K-ish... ;-) I'll let you know what it's got after I get home tonite... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Bugs of a feather flock together." sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Russell Nelson zmerch@30below.com | From nschepers at govital.net Thu Dec 16 15:10:48 2004 From: nschepers at govital.net (Nathan Schepers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: netbooting from w2k In-Reply-To: <41C1ED45.9080002@sbcglobal.net> References: <26c11a6404121517307511244b@mail.gmail.com> <41C1ED45.9080002@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <41C1F9D8.4080209@govital.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Does anyone have any information or links to free utilities to do the bootp/tftp/rarp stuff necessary to netboot machines from a Windows 2000 machine? I'm thinking specifically of a DECstation 5000/125 and the VAXStations that I have. I've seen some shareware utils, but would love to have something that's actually free. n. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBwfnVnIwld3L0JzgRAsXTAJ0dGF+vabN0dmdiPMRv6Td3/ieQOQCgiKMF dMIm2ipWkL4R8xd6NIy3TX0= =Lu/S -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From vax9000 at gmail.com Thu Dec 16 15:42:47 2004 From: vax9000 at gmail.com (9000 VAX) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: netbooting from w2k In-Reply-To: <41C1F9D8.4080209@govital.net> References: <26c11a6404121517307511244b@mail.gmail.com> <41C1ED45.9080002@sbcglobal.net> <41C1F9D8.4080209@govital.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:10:48 -0500, Nathan Schepers wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Does anyone have any information or links to free utilities to do the > bootp/tftp/rarp stuff necessary to netboot machines from a Windows 2000 > machine? I'm thinking specifically of a DECstation 5000/125 and the > VAXStations that I have. I'd suggest NetBSD/i386 as net booting server. I tried to setup a linux to net boot my vax 3900 but failed. I forgot the reason. Unwilling to spend more time to solve the problem, I turned to NetBSD. Easy and straight. vax, 9000 > > I've seen some shareware utils, but would love to have something that's > actually free. > > n. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (MingW32) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFBwfnVnIwld3L0JzgRAsXTAJ0dGF+vabN0dmdiPMRv6Td3/ieQOQCgiKMF > dMIm2ipWkL4R8xd6NIy3TX0= > =Lu/S > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Dec 16 15:36:25 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Stupid TI power supply In-Reply-To: <51047.64.139.41.130.1103227409.squirrel@64.139.41.130> References: <41C0D830.60508@gjcp.net> <51253.64.139.41.130.1103158919.squirrel@64.139.41.130> <200412161752.MAA02331@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <51047.64.139.41.130.1103227409.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: <200412162143.QAA03844@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> If the centre-tap is left open, there will be no loads, balanced or >> not, between it and anywhere; > Incorrect, as explained below. After reading your explanation, I see what you mean. Technically, I stand by my statement; I would say that there will be unbalanced loads between the ends and *where the centre tap used to go*, but not between anywhere and the (now disconnected) centre tap itself. But I do agree that I put it badly; from what I wrote, it does sound as though there is no cause for concern if the centre tap is not connected, which is false. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From ljw-cctech at ljw.me.uk Thu Dec 16 16:04:10 2004 From: ljw-cctech at ljw.me.uk (Lawrence Wilkinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: Differential Analysers and Scientific American Message-ID: <1103234649.16630.27.camel@ljw.me.uk> >From the most recent 'Computer Collector' newsletter (http://news.computercollector.com): > Early Nov., 2004: At the recent VCF 7.0 event, Tim Robinson displayed > Meccano versions of Charles Babbage's Difference Engine and Vannevar > Bush's Differential Analyzer (http://www.meccano.us). It's nice to see Evan has mentioned this lovely Differential Analyser, and I am sorry I missed seeing it (thanks especially to Erik Klein for his nice photos of it, http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcf7.shtml, which first alerted me to its having been there). Many years ago (1980) I made myself a simple two-integrator Differential Analyser, which worked on exactly the same principle. I was inspired by the Meccano machine which was on display at the Museum of Transport and Technology in Auckland - this was one of a number of similar machines made in the '30s - and found a construction article in the Amateur Scientist column of Scientific American. I was wondering whether anyone here with '70s issues of SciAm might be able to make a copy, or at least give a definite date for it. It would have been in the early-to-mid '70s, certainly before '78. Thanks, and if anyone still hasn't seen Tim's machine, go to www.meccano.us and prepare to be amazed. (Sellam, give up on that TI thingy and go buy a Meccano set) -- Lawrence Wilkinson lawrence@ljw.me.uk Ph +44(0)1869-811059 http://www.ljw.me.uk From williams.dan at gmail.com Thu Dec 16 16:05:27 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: netbooting from w2k In-Reply-To: References: <26c11a6404121517307511244b@mail.gmail.com> <41C1ED45.9080002@sbcglobal.net> <41C1F9D8.4080209@govital.net> Message-ID: <26c11a6404121614053a16186b@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:42:47 -0500, 9000 VAX wrote: > On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:10:48 -0500, Nathan Schepers > wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Does anyone have any information or links to free utilities to do the > > bootp/tftp/rarp stuff necessary to netboot machines from a Windows 2000 > > machine? I'm thinking specifically of a DECstation 5000/125 and the > > VAXStations that I have. > I'd suggest NetBSD/i386 as net booting server. I tried to setup a > linux to net boot my vax 3900 but failed. I forgot the reason. > Unwilling to spend more time to solve the problem, I turned to NetBSD. > Easy and straight. > > vax, 9000 > If you want to keep windows running i'd suggest netbsd/i386 under vmware or virtual pc. If you don't have them then netbsd/vax under simh I assume would work. I definatly works under vms to boot machines it can even join a cluster. Dan Dan From sethm at loomcom.com Thu Dec 16 16:29:32 2004 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:25 2005 Subject: netbooting from w2k In-Reply-To: <26c11a6404121614053a16186b@mail.gmail.com> References: <26c11a6404121517307511244b@mail.gmail.com> <41C1ED45.9080002@sbcglobal.net> <41C1F9D8.4080209@govital.net> <26c11a6404121614053a16186b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041216222932.GA20302@loomcom.com> On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 10:05:27PM +0000, Dan Williams wrote: > > If you don't have them then netbsd/vax under > simh I assume would work. I definatly works under vms to boot > machines it can even join a cluster. I second that -- in fact, I've installed OpenVMS this on real VAX hardware way, it works very well. Grab the SIMH executables from here: Then grab the NetBSD/VAX 2.0 ISO here: Follow the instructions here: Voila, a working simulated VAX running NetBSD. Finally, follow the instructions from: That gives you a lot of detail on how to netboot a DECstation from a NetBSD server. Now, I'm sure you're saying "Hey, that's a lot of crazy workaround to get what I want!", but somehow I suspect it'll be more straightforward than finding WIN2K mopd/tftp servers and getting them to work properly. However, I have been known to be wrong in the past :) Hope that helps! > Dan -Seth -- "It looks just like a Telefunken U47! Seth Morabito You'll love it." - Frank Zappa sethm@loomcom.com From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Thu Dec 16 17:15:12 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 RX01 bootstrap ROM In-Reply-To: <001401c4e39b$bef8d0f0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> References: <002101c4e37a$d4a895f0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <000a01c4e37e$c35b46e0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <006b01c4e38a$67eb91a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <001401c4e39b$bef8d0f0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:19:12 -0500, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > The fun wears off after the second or third time > > > of toggling in that code! > > > > Wouldn't VTserver also be a way out here? > > > > John A. > > Yeah, I could load up the bootstrap code in a PC file and run > VTServer and have it load and run the bootstrap file. But then > I'd have to have my PC hooked up as the console. I'm trying to > run my configuration using all 1970s vintage hardware and > peripherals. You could do what we did at Software Results in the late 1970s through the 1980s... we needed to downline feed a PDP-11 test bed with our product in it for test. We had a number of diagnostic programs, both for the embedded 68000 and the PDP-11 itself (tests like the DMA test required code running on both CPUs simultaneously). Note that this PDP-11 had *no* peripherals other than the console and our board under test, and no operating system, just ODT (an 11/04 for Unibus cards, an 11/03 for Qbus cards). We had this special console switch that one of the engineers built that would let us bank in a real VT100, the PDP-11 console, and a port on our VAX. Under normal use, one would have the switches thrown such that the VT100 was either a PDP-11 console or a VAX terminal. One would go to the PDP-11, type a few ODT commands, switch to the VAX, run a special in-house FORTRAN program that would take a binary and convert it to ODT commands, pausing to let one flip switches, then... we would pick a _third_ setting of the switches to gate the VAX output to the PDP-11 input while gating the PDP-11 output to the VT100, allowing us to watch what was going on. So the VAX would 'toggle in' the test programs via ODT, saving us the hassle. AFAIK, the switch was pretty simple - common ground for all 3 serial ports, with a single-pole/double-throw switch on each Rx and Tx, with the common lead going to the PDP-11. Up/Up to connect the VT100 to the PDP-11, Down/Down to connect the VT100 to the VAX, and Up/Down to enter "load mode". We had two flavors of it - one was hand-made with switches from Radio Shack. A later version was two AB switch boxes, internally re-wired, but they used RJ-11 jacks, the same as all of our serial comms gear (we had Nevada Western patch panels, telco-cable adapters, DB25 hoods, Hydras, etc.) It doesn't matter _how_ you rig the switches mechanically, as long as they swap round Tx and Rx properly. This way, you can have a cable to a PC that could be used for booting (you could even run simh on it and feed it from a vintage OS ;-) and also to a real VT100 or VT52, etc. One could probably do something similar with 20mA, but with active and passive devices, it might take a bit of fiddling and an active circuit or two to keep two devices (the PDP-11 and the (VAX/PC/vtserver host) from both trying to drive the loop. If you are looking for a PCish 20mA interface, the original IBM 8-bit ISA serial board has both EIA drivers and a 20mA current loop. But with all that said, I understand about trying to keep it all vintage. The right boot PROM would solve a lot of hassles. I have an ancient Data I/O burner that we used to burn 6309s in (256x8) - I would be surprised if it couldn't handle the PROMs for an M9312, but a) I'm n ot home yet, and b) I wouldn't have any blanks. If you are still looking three or four months from now, and you can locate a blank or two, I'd be happy to burn one for you for free (you pay S&H both ways...) I can try to locate blanks for you if you like, but I couldn't guarantee I'd have any better luck finding them than you will. Cheers, -ethan P.S. - I may have just found a use for the extra serial ports on my SBC6120 - a PDP-11 bootstrap server... :-) Set the switches on the FP6120, throw the console switch on the -11 to 'load mode', then give the SBC6120 a kick and let it emit the necessary ODT commands... Would need a trivial app for OS/8, but I _have_ one written in VAX FORTRAN I could start with. Not sure how to read the switch register in FORTRAN, though. Might have to use the VT100 I/O stream. From wacarder at usit.net Thu Dec 16 17:50:25 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 RX01 bootstrap ROM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > > The fun wears off after the second or third time > > > > of toggling in that code! > > > > > > Wouldn't VTserver also be a way out here? > > > > > > John A. > > > > Yeah, I could load up the bootstrap code in a PC file and run > > VTServer and have it load and run the bootstrap file. But then > > I'd have to have my PC hooked up as the console. I'm trying to > > run my configuration using all 1970s vintage hardware and > > peripherals. > > You could do what we did at Software Results in the late 1970s through > the 1980s... > we needed to downline feed a PDP-11 test bed with our product in it > for test. We had a number of diagnostic programs, both for the > embedded 68000 and the PDP-11 itself (tests like the DMA test required > code running on both CPUs simultaneously). Note that this PDP-11 had > *no* peripherals other than the console and our board under test, and > no operating system, just ODT (an 11/04 for Unibus cards, an 11/03 for > Qbus cards). We had this special console switch that one of the > engineers built that would let us bank in a real VT100, the PDP-11 > console, and a port on our VAX. Under normal use, one would have the > switches thrown such that the VT100 was either a PDP-11 console or a > VAX terminal. One would go to the PDP-11, type a few ODT commands, > switch to the VAX, run a special in-house FORTRAN program that would > take a binary and convert it to ODT commands, pausing to let one flip > switches, then... we would pick a _third_ setting of the switches to > gate the VAX output to the PDP-11 input while gating the PDP-11 output > to the VT100, allowing us to watch what was going on. So the VAX > would 'toggle in' the test programs via ODT, saving us the hassle. > > AFAIK, the switch was pretty simple - common ground for all 3 serial > ports, with a single-pole/double-throw switch on each Rx and Tx, with > the common lead going to the PDP-11. Up/Up to connect the VT100 to > the PDP-11, Down/Down to connect the VT100 to the VAX, and Up/Down to > enter "load mode". We had two flavors of it - one was hand-made with > switches from Radio Shack. A later version was two AB switch boxes, > internally re-wired, but they used RJ-11 jacks, the same as all of our > serial comms gear (we had Nevada Western patch panels, telco-cable > adapters, DB25 hoods, Hydras, etc.) It doesn't matter _how_ you rig > the switches mechanically, as long as they swap round Tx and Rx > properly. > > This way, you can have a cable to a PC that could be used for booting > (you could even run simh on it and feed it from a vintage OS ;-) and > also to a real VT100 or VT52, etc. > > One could probably do something similar with 20mA, but with active and > passive devices, it might take a bit of fiddling and an active circuit > or two to keep two devices (the PDP-11 and the (VAX/PC/vtserver host) > from both trying to drive the loop. If you are looking for a PCish > 20mA interface, the original IBM 8-bit ISA serial board has both EIA > drivers and a 20mA current loop. > > But with all that said, I understand about trying to keep it all > vintage. The right boot PROM would solve a lot of hassles. I have an > ancient Data I/O burner that we used to burn 6309s in (256x8) - I > would be surprised if it couldn't handle the PROMs for an M9312, but > a) I'm n ot home yet, and b) I wouldn't have any blanks. If you are > still looking three or four months from now, and you can locate a > blank or two, I'd be happy to burn one for you for free (you pay S&H > both ways...) I can try to locate blanks for you if you like, but I > couldn't guarantee I'd have any better luck finding them than you > will. > > Cheers, > > -ethan > > P.S. - I may have just found a use for the extra serial ports on my > SBC6120 - a PDP-11 bootstrap server... :-) Set the switches on the > FP6120, throw the console switch on the -11 to 'load mode', then give > the SBC6120 a kick and let it emit the necessary ODT commands... > Would need a trivial app for OS/8, but I _have_ one written in VAX > FORTRAN I could start with. Not sure how to read the switch register > in FORTRAN, though. Might have to use the VT100 I/O stream. > Ethan, Thanks for the great ideas on other ways to get data to the -11 from other sources. I have found an RX01 bootstrap ROM today and I should have it in a day or two, so I can install my RX01 drive, install the bootstrap rom on my M9312, install the M7846 RX11 controller, and then I'll be able to boot from the RX01 or my RK05s or RL01 or RL02s. I do think that I'll try to do some things along the lines of what you've described above. It sure does sound like it has some quite interesting possibilities having the console cable available to both the VT52 terminal as well as the PC serial port. Happy Holidays! Ashley From tomj at wps.com Thu Dec 16 18:46:43 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Final CP/M-80 diskette inventory Message-ID: I got the last box of junk from my brother, and just inventoried the floppies, going by the labels. I likely have errors in sidedness/density but they were all made on one of two CP/M machines; I have one here and the other (my father's) is still in Mass and I can get it if necessary. I have no idea whats actually on them or which ones are readable, that come snext after I power up the cards. I've gone through the chassis already and it's fine. I'll probably do smoke tests today. There's some good stuff I think. BDS C, CBBS from 81 (sources plus BBS files), Stackworth FORTH, JRT Pascal, some other Pascal, Aztec C, FORTRAN IV (likely TDL/Xitan), F80, M80, L80, etc (m'soft) basic compiler (ugh) old DBASE, etc... I'll make everything available ASAP. Diskette label Media Location ?Copy Teletek CP/M? SN 2-301-01089, FDC-I, with VDISK, & WS 3.3 MAILMERGE SSDD Grey binder Dad's Microsoft CP/M Basic Compiler vers. 530 copy SN16395 SSSD Grey binder Dad's COM (not BASIC) games #2, Adventure SSDD Grey binder Dad's SUPER-CALC SH=microshell SSDD Grey binder Dad's CHESS SSSD Grey binder Dad's ZIP 2.4 SSSD Grey binder Dad's Dbase example files sysgened DSDD Teletek format DSDD Grey binder Dad's (TJ) ASM86 GENCMD MODEM7 STRIPCMD ZSID TRACE+HIST UTL SID ASM MAC LINK L80 M80 SSSD Grey binder Dad's. AZTEC 'C' side #1 ver 1.05g #6425 SSSD Grey binder Dad's AZTEC 'C' side #2 ver 1.05g #6425 SSSD Grey binder Dad's FORTRAN IV ver 3.05 copy from ser# 0199; also marked L80 M80 SSSD? Flippy disk! Beige binder ?CP/M Utilities? Casing has serious warpage; heat or time, media looks OK. PMATE 3.02 WordStar 3.00 Beige binder ?CP/M Utilities? Tomj F80 L80 M80 DSDD Beige binder ?CP/M Utilities? Dad's Some str??? .COM? DSDD Beige binder ?CP/M Utilities? Dads; may be blank. Perfect Writer Speller PMATE 1-84 SSSD Beige binder ?CP/M Utilities? ? NEW ADVENTURE OTHELLO NO SYSTEM SSSD Beige binder ?CP/M Utilities? DUU & NICE.DOC ?shouldn't be anything else? NEW TELINK.C (Lattice ver.) MYCHESS SSSD Beige binder ?CP/M Utilities? Backup disk for Telink C Sources (TJ) DEC 82 SSDD Beige binder ?CP/M Utilities? C' BDC [I think means BDS] 1.45 WORKING Telink Xtelink SSDD Beige binder ?CP/M Utilities? An inte??um copy of Telink.C only SSDD Beige binder ?CP/M Utilities? Aztec work disk SSSD Beige binder ?CP/M Utilities? CBBS v3.5 BOTH SIDES SSSD flippy disk! Blue binder, ?Originals? Stackworth FORTH SPEED.COM SS?? Blue binder, ?Originals? WS 1.01 & 3.00 PMATE 3.0 DSDD Blue binder, ?Originals? JRT Pascal ORIGINAL [handwritten] SSSD Blue binder, ?Originals? BULLETIN BOARD SSDD Blue binder, ?Originals? Printout of DIR; 5/10/81. CBBS sources and BBS files BBS DOC FILES SSDD Blue binder, ?Originals? DBASE 2.4 SRC SSSD Blue binder, ?Originals? DWS ? NWS v1.01 SS?? Blue binder, ?Originals? WordStar Little Fido's Bugger ? VB3 DSSD Brown Dysan box, ?Little FIDO CP/M Sources? Bugger for SSM VB3 card Fido's Double Sided System Disk 3/15/82 DSSD Brown Dysan box, ?Little FIDO CP/M Sources? Fido's Double Sided System Disk #2 2/14/82 DSSD Brown Dysan box, ?Little FIDO CP/M Sources? FIDO's CCP SSSD Brown Dysan box, ?Little FIDO CP/M Sources? CP/M CCP replacement program; see ?Little Fido ? software binder CP/M 2.21 for FIDO working BIOS disk BACKUP 4/6/82 1/24/82 SSSD Brown Dysan box, ?Little FIDO CP/M Sources? VB3 BIOS 4/6/82 27 April 82 SSSD Brown Dysan box, ?Little FIDO CP/M Sources? Fido's System Disk #2 1/24/82 SSSD Brown Dysan box, ?Little FIDO CP/M Sources? Doc files SSSD Brown Dysan box, ?Little FIDO CP/M Sources? Little Fido's system disk 29 Aug 82 SSSD Brown Dysan box, ?Little FIDO CP/M Sources? Fido's system disk 62K 2.21 7/10/81 3/22/82 DSSD Brown Dysan box, ?Little FIDO CP/M Sources? Little Fido's System Disk Double Sided 11 Aug 82 DSSD Brown Dysan box, ?Little FIDO CP/M Sources? IBUG, PARSE, RLOCATR2 12/20/81 SSSD Brown Dysan box, ?Little FIDO CP/M Sources? BDS 'C' 1.41a as of 1/21/81 see 141.DOC SSSD Dysan box, no markings C' sources 5/15/81 BAUD SSSD Dysan box, no markings BDS 'C' 1.41 Diskbug Makedb Zapload Stripcmd SSSD Dysan box, no markings Has Microft Inc sticker BDS C 1.41 for TRS80 2 of 2 SSSD Dysan box, no markings BDS C 1.41 for the TRS *) 5/20/81 1 of 2 SSSD Dysan box, no markings Algol SSSD Dysan box, no markings Huh?! Stackworth FORTH TJ 4/30/81 SSSD Dysan box, no markings Pascal SSSD Dysan box, no markings INDEX EPROM SSSD Dysan box, no markings Modem 2.17 etc 11/30/81 SSSD Dysan box, no markings Development System COM files ASM LINK etc --- 2/18/81 disk #1 SSSD Dysan box, no markings Dev. Sys. COM files 2/18/81 Disk #2 SSSD Dysan box, no markings Dev. Sys. COM files 2/18/81 Disk #3 recopied 5/26/81 SSSD Dysan box, no markings FIDO formatter 7/10 FIDO copy 7/10 Sysgen 7/30 7/9/81 SSSD Dysan box, no markings COPY (disc copy utility) for FIDO CP/M 2.21 7/11/81 SSSD Dysan box, no markings Old IMDOS disk, has DIABLO printer driver SSSD Dysan box, no markings From tomj at wps.com Thu Dec 16 19:29:11 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Final CP/M-80 diskette inventory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: Well shit howdy, the machine is mostly up. I cleaned up the chassis (w/20A power supply), tightened screws on the power connections, then ran it no load for about 6 hours and watched for warm parts and bad smells. Did that over the last week. The old Zenith Data Systems monitor came up without crackling. Today I stuck in the two most-expendable cards, Cromemco TUART and PRI (I have spares). Power still OK. Then the memories (two Seattle 16Ks and an IMS 32K) and ZPU. Still OK. The the EPROM card, 4FDC and the rest. Debugger prompt on the CRT! Floppies are not connected (have to clean & repair the 50-pin cable) and I'm missing the keyboard cable (DB25 --> T&B). With the keyboard I can poke registers and see machine innards. It's a good start. Just to see the debugger prompt means that the upper memory is good, the ZPU jumped to the EPROM monitor, which copies itself into RAM and hits an IO port that takes the EPROM out of the address space. The VB3 initialized and displays OK. It only boots manually ("b" command) and there's no power-up diags so I'll wait for the floppy cable, which I'll repair tomorrow. The keyboard, a top-notch Microswitch OEM type, could be bad I suppose, then there's the floppies. From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Thu Dec 16 19:36:08 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Wanted: M9312 RX01 bootstrap ROM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:50:25 -0500, Ashley Carder wrote: > Thanks for the great ideas on other ways to get data to the -11 from > other sources. You are welcome. I hadn't heard anyone on the list make a similar suggestion, and I know it was just the thing for our situation 25 years ago, so here it is. > I have found an RX01 bootstrap ROM today and I should > have it in a day or two, so I can install my RX01 drive, install the > bootstrap rom on my M9312, install the M7846 RX11 controller, and > then I'll be able to boot from the RX01 or my RK05s or RL01 or RL02s. Nice. Of course, the bootstrap for the RK11 and RL11 are somewhat trivial... I used to know off the top of my head what to do to boot an RL11 in a couple of ODT commands - I _think_ it involved initiating an INIT cycle via the FP (11/34), then entering an RL11 'command' with the GO bit into the RL11 CSR, and since everything else had just been zeroed, it would load block number zero into address 000000, which one would then jump into. I _think_ it went something like this... deposit 201 (or 401) at 174400 (depending on how your ODT works, that may vary) watch the 0/Ready light blink on your RL01/RL02 jump to 0 I suppose analysis of the _real_ RL11 boot routine would reveal lots, but essentially, it's the same procedure, without checking and waiting on status bits, because you, the human, are much slower than boot code, so the act of typing things in manually serves to let the operation complete before jumping to the boot block. > I do think that I'll try to do some things along the lines of what > you've described above. It sure does sound like it has some quite > interesting possibilities having the console cable available to both > the VT52 terminal as well as the PC serial port. Sure... if you don't have the switches in a junk box, it's only a few $$$ at a nearby Radio Shack and a few minutes with a soldering iron. If you have a junky AB switch, one could even pull the rotary out of it, replace it with two toggle switches and away you go (simpler to use an older, wired switch box vs a newer one with a PCB, but either kind could be made to work). Just remember to have your loading program hang (wait for ^C perhaps?) so the OS prompt doesn't get fed to ODT. -ethan From allain at panix.com Thu Dec 16 23:03:01 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Differential Analysers and Scientific American References: <1103234649.16630.27.camel@ljw.me.uk> Message-ID: <01f401c4e3f5$afdb6420$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I was wondering whether anyone here with '70s > issues of SciAm might be able to make a copy, Likely I have the issue stored. I'd have to leave it to you right now to find out which issue it would be. With that info I could make you a copy. John A. hope this can help you From allain at panix.com Thu Dec 16 23:05:57 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Differential Analysers and Scientific American Message-ID: <020101c4e3f6$18e901c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I was wondering whether anyone here with '70s > issues of SciAm might be able to make a copy, Likely I have the issue stored. I'd have to leave it to you right now to find out which issue it would be. With that info I could make you a copy. John A. hope this can help you Bill the cat: "ACK TBFfffttt!" From wpileggi at juno.com Thu Dec 16 23:44:44 2004 From: wpileggi at juno.com (Bill Pileggi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Eagle CP/M machine available from November Message-ID: <20041216.214451.582.177680@webmail25.lax.untd.com> To the half dozen+ listees who responded to my listing this computer as available in November: The guy who had the Eagle has certainly moved out of his apartment by now - as it is well after the first of the month. I presume the box went to computer heaven and we were not able to rescue it. I guess that's the way things go sometimes. Thanks to all. Bill. ________________________________________________________________ Juno Gift Certificates Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season. http://www.juno.com/give From glen.slick at gmail.com Fri Dec 17 01:14:35 2004 From: glen.slick at gmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: question re HP 264x terminals In-Reply-To: <000001c4e325$c094f860$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> References: <000001c4e325$c094f860$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> Message-ID: <1e1fc3e9041216231429a1ed6f@mail.gmail.com> The 02640-60008 processor board in my 2640B has an 8008 CPU. Looks like standard Intel markings. The 02640-60209 processor board in my 2645A has an 8080 CPU. It is marked as 1820-1701 (c) AMD. Looks about the same as this 02640-60256 board: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5145936933 The 02640-60249 processor board in my 2647F has an 8085 CPU. Looks like standard Intel markings, D8086AH-2. There is also a Z80 CPU on the 02640-69223 floppy controller board. Does anyone else have a 2647F? I have two floppy drives for mine, but no program disks. It would be nice to find a copy of the BASIC disk. On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 22:14:34 -0600, Jack Rubin wrote: > Which HP 264x terminals used 8008 cpus? I know that the 2640 and 2644 did - > but did the 2648 or any others in the series also use it? What is the HP p/n > for the 8008 in this application? > > Jack > > From dave04a at dunfield.com Fri Dec 17 06:07:18 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Altair switch handle measurements Message-ID: <20041217120717.WXZM5758.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> At 14:00 16/12/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Hello, all: > > If anyone has access to an Altair 8800 (the original model) and can >measure the toggle switch handles, I would greatly appreciate it. I need the >length of the handle from the top of the threaded collar to the end of the >handle. > > Thanks a lot. > >Rich Hi Rich, Since no-one else has repsonded, I uncrated my 8800 and measured the switches. This measurement is difficult, because the top of the collar does not protude through the front panel, and in fact does not come all the way through to the face of the panel. I measured the switches by holding a toothpick against the top of the collar, and straight out beside the switch - marking the top of the switch, and then measuring the toothpick. Measurements are from the collar to the furthest out edge of the dome at the end of the switch handle. Both switch types (two position and three position) are exactly the same length. I measured the two position switch by positioning it 1/2 way (straight out) . And the measurements are (drum roll please): 11mm (7/16 inches) Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From dave04a at dunfield.com Fri Dec 17 06:20:11 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: LF: TRS-80 Model II boot disk Message-ID: <20041217122010.XCTJ5758.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Hi Guys, Have a TRS-80 Model II which I am planning to restore (probably get started over the holidays) - but one thing I am going to need is a boot disk. Anyone out there got a working Model II system? (This is the big "business" version with the single- sided 8" drive). Regards, Dave PS: Also still looking for a Cromemco System-3 boot disk. -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From GFisher at tristonecapital.com Fri Dec 17 11:48:44 2004 From: GFisher at tristonecapital.com (Gary Fisher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: LF: TRS-80 Model II boot disk Message-ID: Dave, I've got boot disks for TRSDOS 2a and P&T CP/M 2.2m if you're interested. Reply to me off list and we get something going. Gary Fisher C/O Tristone Capital Inc. Suite 1800, 335 - 8th Avenue SW Calgary, Alberta T2P 1C9 B: 403.303.8657 F: 403.294.9543 E:gfisher@tristonecapital.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Unless otherwise stated, opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the author and are not endorsed by the author's employer. Your original message: Message: 28 Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 07:20:11 -0500 From: Dave Dunfield Subject: LF: TRS-80 Model II boot disk To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Message-ID: <20041217122010.XCTJ5758.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Guys, Have a TRS-80 Model II which I am planning to restore (probably get started over the holidays) - but one thing I am going to need is a boot disk. Anyone out there got a working Model II system? (This is the big "business" version with the single- sided 8" drive). Regards, Dave PS: Also still looking for a Cromemco System-3 boot disk. -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From wacarder at usit.net Fri Dec 17 12:33:53 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Oldest computer on the internet? Message-ID: <009601c4e466$f6b6aaa0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Does anyone know what the oldest documented functional computer is that is connected to the internet? Ashley From wacarder at usit.net Fri Dec 17 12:43:55 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Oldest computer on the internet? References: <00ce01c4e468$13c250d0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Message-ID: <00e101c4e468$5d8c6430$f71b0f14@wcarder1> > Does anyone know what the oldest documented functional computer is that is > connected to the internet? ..... and is accessible by others via telnet, etc? Ashley From gsutton9503 at wavecable.com Fri Dec 17 12:45:56 2004 From: gsutton9503 at wavecable.com (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Oldest computer on the internet? In-Reply-To: <009601c4e466$f6b6aaa0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> References: <009601c4e466$f6b6aaa0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Message-ID: <41C32964.1050906@wavecable.com> Ashley Carder wrote: >Does anyone know what the oldest documented functional computer is that is connected to the internet? > > I know this was a few years ago, so I don't know what its status is today. But I remember on comp.sys.tamdy, someone posted an announcement that he had a TRS-80 of some sort (most likely a Model III) set up as a telnettable BBS. And if I ever get around to playing with SLIP and PLIP, I plan on eventually hooking up old systems (such as my TI-99/4a and KayPro II) to a Linux box so that they can access the Internet via a shell account. -- Scarletdown From vcf at siconic.com Fri Dec 17 12:45:12 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Oldest computer on the internet? In-Reply-To: <00e101c4e468$5d8c6430$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Dec 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > > Does anyone know what the oldest documented functional computer is that is > > connected to the internet? > ..... and is accessible by others via telnet, etc? Howard Harte's Northstar Horizon? http://www.imsai8080.com/computers/index.html -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Dec 17 12:45:45 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Oldest computer on the internet? Message-ID: <0412171845.AA15867@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Ashley Carder wrote: > Does anyone know what the oldest documented functional computer is that is > connected to the internet? > ..... and is accessible by others via telnet, etc? Hmm, would probably have to be a FOONLY running TENEX or something of that era, I don't think VAXen running 4BSD quite cut it. For the record I run MicroVAX III's with 4.3BSD-Quasijarus, but I really hope that I'm not the oldest and that there are some people running plain 4.3 or even 4.2 on an 11/7xx connected to the net. Hell, since mine are all MicroVAX III's, even someone with a MicroVAX II will beat me. But then I will probably be putting together a new router soon and that one will have a MicroVAX II CPU, so at least I'll have that. MS From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Dec 17 12:51:11 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: question re HP 264x terminals In-Reply-To: <1e1fc3e9041216231429a1ed6f@mail.gmail.com> References: <000001c4e325$c094f860$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> <1e1fc3e9041216231429a1ed6f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42666.64.139.41.130.1103309471.squirrel@64.139.41.130> > Does anyone else have a 2647F? I have two floppy drives for mine, but > no program disks. It would be nice to find a copy of the BASIC disk. I've got the disks. I can provide Teledisk images. If that won't work and you need physical floppies, I can probably arrange that. But I hope you're not in a hurry, because I probably won't be able to do either until January. Eric From wacarder at usit.net Fri Dec 17 13:08:22 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Oldest computer on the internet? References: Message-ID: <001901c4e46b$c7ff08b0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> > > > Does anyone know what the oldest documented functional computer is that is > > > connected to the internet? > > ..... and is accessible by others via telnet, etc? > > Howard Harte's Northstar Horizon? > > http://www.imsai8080.com/computers/index.html What year is this? Mid-to-late 70s? I'm not up on IMSAI. Ashley From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Dec 17 13:05:50 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Oldest computer on the internet? In-Reply-To: <009601c4e466$f6b6aaa0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> References: <009601c4e466$f6b6aaa0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Message-ID: <44481.64.139.41.130.1103310350.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Ashley Carder asks: > Does anyone know what the oldest documented functional computer is that is > connected to the internet? I often (but not continuously) have a DEC GT40 hooked up to terminal server allowing me to telnet into and out of it. Normally I load programs such as the Moonlander game by telnetting to my Linux server, logging in, and typing a "cat lunar.gt" command. The GT40 is a vector graphics terminal based on a PDP-11/05, 8K words of core memory, a VT11 vector graphics controller and a VR14 vector monitor. They were introduced in 1972. The GT40 has a small boot PROM containing a very simplistic terminal emulator which recognizes a special character sequence to initiate a base-64 program download, so logging into a timesharing system was the most common way to load programs. Eric From bqt at Update.UU.SE Fri Dec 17 13:12:47 2004 From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Oldest computer on the internet? In-Reply-To: <009601c4e466$f6b6aaa0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> References: <009601c4e466$f6b6aaa0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Dec 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > Does anyone know what the oldest documented functional computer is that is connected to the internet? Don't know, but I know it's probably over 30 years atleast. (I have one that is 29...) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From bqt at Update.UU.SE Fri Dec 17 13:14:00 2004 From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Oldest computer on the internet? In-Reply-To: <00e101c4e468$5d8c6430$f71b0f14@wcarder1> References: <00ce01c4e468$13c250d0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <00e101c4e468$5d8c6430$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Dec 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: >> Does anyone know what the oldest documented functional computer is that is >> connected to the internet? > ..... and is accessible by others via telnet, etc? Still don't know, but still have one that is 29 years old... Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From wacarder at usit.net Fri Dec 17 13:24:44 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Oldest computer on the internet? References: <00ce01c4e468$13c250d0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <00e101c4e468$5d8c6430$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Message-ID: <006201c4e46e$110ee1e0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> > >> Does anyone know what the oldest documented functional computer is that is > >> connected to the internet? > > ..... and is accessible by others via telnet, etc? > > Still don't know, but still have one that is 29 years old... > > Johnny Is yours Magica, the PDP-11/70? How do I get to it? Is it always online? Ashley From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 17 07:25:27 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: question re HP 264x terminals In-Reply-To: <1e1fc3e9041216231429a1ed6f@mail.gmail.com> References: <000001c4e325$c094f860$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> <000001c4e325$c094f860$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041217082527.0090b480@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I took the CPU card out of one of my HP 2648s and it also has an AMD part with a HP part number (1820-1701). I had guessed that it was a 8080. I took some pictures of the card and CPU but I borrowed someone else's camera and the pictures were LOUSY. IIRC the name on the card was simply "Processor" or maybe "CPU" with nothing to indicate what kind of CPU it was. I'll bring the card home next time and try to get some decent pictures. There's also a HP 2647 at the warehouse. IIRC There's no drives of any type on it. I'll try to open it up and see what kind of CPU is in it. Joe At 11:14 PM 12/16/04 -0800, you wrote: >The 02640-60008 processor board in my 2640B has an 8008 CPU. Looks >like standard Intel markings. > >The 02640-60209 processor board in my 2645A has an 8080 CPU. It is >marked as 1820-1701 (c) AMD. Looks about the same as this 02640-60256 >board: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5145936933 > >The 02640-60249 processor board in my 2647F has an 8085 CPU. Looks >like standard Intel markings, D8086AH-2. There is also a Z80 CPU on >the 02640-69223 floppy controller board. > >Does anyone else have a 2647F? I have two floppy drives for mine, but >no program disks. It would be nice to find a copy of the BASIC disk. > > >On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 22:14:34 -0600, Jack Rubin wrote: >> Which HP 264x terminals used 8008 cpus? I know that the 2640 and 2644 did - >> but did the 2648 or any others in the series also use it? What is the HP p/n >> for the 8008 in this application? >> >> Jack >> >> > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Dec 17 13:20:01 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Oldest computer on the internet? In-Reply-To: <00e101c4e468$5d8c6430$f71b0f14@wcarder1> References: <00ce01c4e468$13c250d0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <00e101c4e468$5d8c6430$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Message-ID: <1103311201.23166.29.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-12-17 at 13:43 -0500, Ashley Carder wrote: > > Does anyone know what the oldest documented functional computer is that is > > connected to the internet? > ..... and is accessible by others via telnet, etc? 'connected' in what sense? Various possibilities spring to mind: 1) Original hardware with period components forming a network interface such as Ethernet, 2) Original hardware with modern components forming a network interface such as Ethernet, 3) Original hardware as a parasite system hanging from something else (via serial or parallel say) with the 'something else' doing a lot of the work, 4) Original hardware using original serial interface and dial-up via an acoustic coupler... Likely there's all sort of variations. Personally I like the 4th one... but both 1 and 4 seem 'pure' solutions in that they aren't replying on components that weren't around at the time (with the exception of the Internet itself and Ethernet maybe!) The telnet restriction's something of a shame. I mean someone could maybe bodge some sort of interface onto our 1950's Marconi so it could be 'seen' from the 'net in some fashion, but they're not going to be able to run a Unix-like OS on it! And by "documented" do you mean used in a real-world corporate sense, or simply "known about" by people? cheers Jules From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 17 13:23:07 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Oldest computer on the internet? In-Reply-To: <009601c4e466$f6b6aaa0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041217142307.0096cc60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Bob Rief (an x-member of this list) was used a Compupro S-100 machine on the net up until a year or so ago. Joe At 01:33 PM 12/17/04 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone know what the oldest documented functional computer is that is connected to the internet? > >Ashley > From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Dec 17 14:03:53 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: dec racks available Message-ID: <004b01c4e473$889a92e0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I received the following email: I have two DEC 72 inch high racks. They contain some custom electronics (useless to anyone else) and power supplies. The racks are in good condition. These racks are available for pickup only in eastern PA. If anyone is interested contact me off-list. Jay From cb at mythtech.net Fri Dec 17 14:14:00 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Panasonic 805 Calculator Message-ID: My father has a very much loved Panasonic 805 calculator. However, in recent months, one of the LED segments has begun to misbehave. It is getting steadily worse. What happens is, in general the segment is dim, and once a segment lights, it doesn't seem to turn back off until you clear the calculation. As a result, very quickly, the one segment just stays on 8. Since this is the ones column, it effects all calculation displays (the calculation itself works fine, it always knows what the number should be, it is just the display of that number that doesn't work). Does anyone have any repair info on this calculator? Schematics or otherwise? I'd love to be able to open it and replace the segment, or whatever may be misfiring to cause it to display wrong. He hates to give it up, but he is finding it increasingly hard to use. -chris From thompson at new.rr.com Fri Dec 17 14:15:47 2004 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: dec racks available In-Reply-To: <004b01c4e473$889a92e0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <004b01c4e473$889a92e0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On that note: I have a DEC Storageworks 800 rack available in Wisconsin. Have not decided if the HSJ40's and 50 therein are included or not. Email for details. From kmar at lle.rochester.edu Fri Dec 17 14:15:39 2004 From: kmar at lle.rochester.edu (Kenneth L. Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Oldest computer on the internet? In-Reply-To: <006201c4e46e$110ee1e0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> References: <00ce01c4e468$13c250d0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <00e101c4e468$5d8c6430$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <006201c4e46e$110ee1e0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Message-ID: <6B69663A-5068-11D9-AF65-000393670E1E@lle.rochester.edu> Telephone: 314-4962 e-mail: ernestb@rochester.rr.com On Dec 17, 2004, at 2:24 PM, Ashley Carder wrote: >>>> Does anyone know what the oldest documented functional computer is >>>> that > is >>>> connected to the internet? >>> ..... and is accessible by others via telnet, etc? >> >> Still don't know, but still have one that is 29 years old... >> >> Johnny > > Is yours Magica, the PDP-11/70? How do I get to it? Is it always > online? > > Ashley > > > Kenneth L. Marshall Research Engineer, Optical Materials Laboratory for Laser Energetics University of Rochester 250 East River Rd Rochester, NY 14623 Phone: (585)-275-8247 Fax: (585)-275-5960 From tomj at wps.com Fri Dec 17 14:46:25 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Oldest computer on the internet? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Dec 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Howard Harte's Northstar Horizon? > > http://www.imsai8080.com/computers/index.html Cool! Plus, this bizarre "Suoer IO" card -- IDE for S100! http://www.cpm80.com/superio.html $350 is a lot to drop for me on something that's not a main project, but I'll save it For The Future. I have occasional fantasies of putting my CP/M machine on the net, it wouldn't be a big deal, I've got a machine on a static IP at home (linux) and could cobble up serial to it, but THAT thrill would wear off in mere minutes. (Not that this machine is historically old and CP/M mutt machines aren't all that interesting except to their owners.) From vcf at siconic.com Fri Dec 17 14:56:42 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Oldest computer on the internet? In-Reply-To: <41C32964.1050906@wavecable.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Dec 2004, Scarletdown wrote: > I know this was a few years ago, so I don't know what its status is > today. But I remember on comp.sys.tamdy, someone posted an announcement > that he had a TRS-80 of some sort (most likely a Model III) set up as a > telnettable BBS. That was probably Frank LaRosa. He brought the TRS-80 Model III to VCF 7.0 and had it online taking "calls" during the event. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri Dec 17 14:57:36 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Oldest computer on the internet? In-Reply-To: <001901c4e46b$c7ff08b0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Dec 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > > > > Does anyone know what the oldest documented functional computer is > that is > > > > connected to the internet? > > > ..... and is accessible by others via telnet, etc? > > > > Howard Harte's Northstar Horizon? > > > > http://www.imsai8080.com/computers/index.html > > What year is this? Mid-to-late 70s? I'm not up on IMSAI. The Northstar Horizon is circa 1978 (possibly as early as 1977). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From tomj at wps.com Fri Dec 17 15:04:02 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Oldest computer on the internet? In-Reply-To: <1103311201.23166.29.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <00ce01c4e468$13c250d0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <00e101c4e468$5d8c6430$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <1103311201.23166.29.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Dec 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > 'connected' in what sense? Various possibilities spring to mind: ... and here we enter a maze of little passages, all different (but the same :-) > Likely there's all sort of variations. Personally I like the 4th one... > but both 1 and 4 seem 'pure' solutions in that they aren't replying on > components that weren't around at the time (with the exception of the > Internet itself and Ethernet maybe!) Casually, all and any of it seems interesting to me. Some machines, you can have 'an original experience' remotely, eg. early unix systems (especially if you were to use an ADM3 or ASR33). Others, like telnet-to-serial-to-CP/M-80, eh, it's interesting, but you don't get to hear drives honking and fan noise. It's better than nothing and all fun and interesting and maybe useful... > The telnet restriction's something of a shame. I mean someone could > maybe bodge some sort of interface onto our 1950's Marconi so it could > be 'seen' from the 'net in some fashion, but they're not going to be > able to run a Unix-like OS on it! ... and then as you more-or-less go back in time, all paradigms fail. A lot of machines don't have "consoles" in the sense of anything you can do wit hthe computer, you can abstract through a character interface. Hell, even a lot of serial-terminal (and especially mechanical tty) terminals use line-break (out-of-band signalling by generating a "bad" character). That CAN be simulated or emulated, but we begin the slippery slope... My LGP-21, for example, isn't possibly net-able, as you have to press switches to do things, and then we're in teleoperator land :-) The "console" is actually mechanics hard-wired into the CPU control logic directly. Good luck with remote character abstraction! It's not unusual for this era, say pre-1966. So again, viewable on the net is great, but it can't be used as a way to 'look into history' as a sort of progression (regression). From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Dec 17 15:07:17 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Panasonic 805 Calculator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <54057.64.139.41.130.1103317637.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Chris wrote: > My father has a very much loved Panasonic 805 calculator. > However, in recent months, one of the LED segments has begun to > misbehave. It is getting steadily worse. What happens is, in general the > segment is dim, and once a segment lights, it doesn't seem to turn back > off until you clear the calculation. As a result, very quickly, the one > segment just stays on 8. Are you sure it's a LED display? That sounds more like behavior I would expect of a vacuum fluorescent display. If an LED really is doing that, the problem is with the electronics, not the diplay. Eric From cb at mythtech.net Fri Dec 17 15:23:19 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Panasonic 805 Calculator Message-ID: >Are you sure it's a LED display? That sounds more like behavior I would >expect of a vacuum fluorescent display. If an LED really is doing that, >the problem is with the electronics, not the diplay. I can't be sure. I didn't think it was an LED (the unit is from around 1970 or so), but when I looked at it a little while ago, it looked kind of like LED segments behind the plastic lens. They glow a bluish green if that is any help. They don't look like any LED out today, that's for sure. I've never knowingly seen a vacuum fluorescent display, so I can't compare. If this is one, is it a problem that is fixable? -chris From river at zip.com.au Fri Dec 17 03:32:48 2004 From: river at zip.com.au (river) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: MDS 225 Update Message-ID: <008201c4e41b$606506a0$a82c083d@river> Hi, Thanks for the reply. I went and loaded all those docos regarding the Series 2XX. Great stuff. I cleaned up the connectors to the IO board and now the floppy drive engages upon reset. I ran the diags and all system work and even the floppy drive passed its tests with a scratch disk. However, I get a disk error when I boot the ISIS-II system disk. I tried a few other disks and the ones that are double-density all give a "disk error", yet the single-density ones just say "not bootable". So, I guess I need to find a single density 8-inch ISIS-II boot disk. I can't use the one from my Series-4 'cos it uses 5-1/4 disks. THe unit also came with a dual disk drive array - yet another amazingly heavy blue box, and an expansion chasis. It appears that there are no cables to attach the disk array. The 225 has the two disk controller cards in the chasis and the cables are routed to the J8/J9 connectors, but I beleive there is a cable that I require to attach from these connectors to the disk array. I'd love to get the 225 fully operational 'cos it came with the ICE-80 (which I cannot use on the Series-4, which has an ICE-85B), ICE-51 and ICE-49. I especially want to use the ICE-80 so I can do some 8080 development (may as well use the stock of chips I got). I'm gonna see if I can pull out the single-density drive in the 225 and put in one of the double density drives from the array. However, before I do that, does anyone know the cable pinouts - 'cos I might try and make a cable first. Or does anyone know where I can get a cable? In the final run, if I can't do anything much with it, I can always use the parts for spares and other stuff. Oh, final question... I also have an iPDS that's been waiting for a boot disk. Can I use my Series-4 ISIS-II disks in this unit? Will it boot, or is this unit doomed to be pulled apart for spares also? seeyuzz river From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri Dec 17 15:53:58 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Panasonic 805 Calculator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200412172156.QAA19361@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> Are you sure it's a LED display? That sounds more like behavior I >> would expect of a vacuum fluorescent display. If an LED really is >> doing that, the problem is with the electronics, not the diplay. > I can't be sure. I didn't think it was an LED (the unit is from > around 1970 or so), but when I looked at it a little while ago, it > looked kind of like LED segments behind the plastic lens. > They glow a bluish green if that is any help. That is almost certainly vacuum fluorescent. There are a lot of such displays that use the same kind of seven-segment number formation you commonly see with LEDs. There may exist, today, LEDs that produce blue-green light. I'm fairly sure there weren't any in mass-market consumer electronics (even fairly specialized devices) back around 1970 - quite likely not any at all back then. Not that that helps much with your question, since I am not competent to comment on fixing either kind of display. But it may help to know what you're dealing with. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From dmabry at mich.com Fri Dec 17 15:59:40 2004 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: MDS 225 Update In-Reply-To: <008201c4e41b$606506a0$a82c083d@river> References: <008201c4e41b$606506a0$a82c083d@river> Message-ID: <41C356CC.4090204@mich.com> river wrote: >Hi, > >Thanks for the reply. I went and loaded all those docos regarding the Series 2XX. Great stuff. > >I cleaned up the connectors to the IO board and now the floppy drive engages upon reset. I ran the diags and all system work and even the floppy drive passed its tests with a scratch disk. However, I get a disk error when I boot the ISIS-II system disk. I tried a few other disks and the ones that are double-density all give a "disk error", yet the single-density ones just say "not bootable". > > Sound like your "disk error" diskettes are probably double density. The IOC board only controls the drive in single density mode. The message "not bootable" has to be coming from the diskette itself. The boot rom in the MDS has no such message. So what you have is a "data" diskette, or one that was formatted by some operating system with the boot sectors containing the code to print out that message when it has execution transferred to it. That's how ISIS non-system disks would do it. At least it shows that your controller and drive are working. You just need a boot disk in single density. >So, I guess I need to find a single density 8-inch ISIS-II boot disk. I can't use the one from my Series-4 'cos it uses 5-1/4 disks. THe unit also came with a dual disk drive array - yet another amazingly heavy blue box, and an expansion chasis. It appears that there are no cables to attach the disk array. The 225 has the two disk controller cards in the chasis and the cables are routed to the J8/J9 connectors, but I beleive there is a cable that I require to attach from these connectors to the disk array. I'd love to get the 225 fully operational 'cos it came with the ICE-80 (which I cannot use on the Series-4, which has an ICE-85B), ICE-51 and ICE-49. I especially want to use the ICE-80 so I can do some 8080 development (may as well use the stock of chips I got). > >I'm gonna see if I can pull out the single-density drive in the 225 and put in one of the double density drives from the array. However, before I do that, does anyone know the cable pinouts - 'cos I might try and make a cable first. Or does anyone know where I can get a cable? > > The drive in the 225 can do either single density or double density depending on what controller hardware it is connected to. You won't do anything by replacing it. If what you have is an Intel external floppy disk chassis made for the MDS, then there are people here who can get you the wiring diagram for the cable between the MDS and the floppy chassis. Ask nice, and STOP threatening to make your systems into parts! >In the final run, if I can't do anything much with it, I can always use the parts for spares and other stuff. > >Oh, final question... I also have an iPDS that's been waiting for a boot disk. Can I use my Series-4 ISIS-II disks in this unit? Will it boot, or is this unit doomed to be pulled apart for spares also? > > The Series-IV and the iPDS are two totally different beasts. Different cpu, different operating systems. The only thing the same is the physical format of the drives. DSDD 96 tpi. >seeyuzz >river > > > All these threats to make your systems "spare parts" machines won't get you much sympathy here. I can e-mail you a TELEDISK image of a boot diskette for the iPDS. You will have to make the boot diskette from a PC with a 1.2MB "HD" drive on it and it will probably need to be somewhere in the range of a 386 or 486 vintage PC since the images were made on a 16MHz 386SX system. From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Fri Dec 17 16:12:26 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: vaxbrick 4000-50? In-Reply-To: <006301c4e3a4$2536da30$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <005c01c4e485$7f3f1380$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > I'll see if I can dig up any documents, but from memory, it > was a pretty rare upgrade. You swapped it in place of the > CPU on one of the other MicroVAX systems of the time - > possibly a VAX 4000-200 (or similar)? I did a bit of hunting on ebay and found the auction I guess you were thnking of: 5738502460 - "VAXServer 3800 w/ VAXBrick 4000-50 upgrade" Opening price of $999 ... they were'nt **that** r@re !! Maybe it will be a bit more sensibly priced next time around? Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From gstreet at indy.net Fri Dec 17 16:43:34 2004 From: gstreet at indy.net (gstreet@indy.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Vintage Edison Recorder... In-Reply-To: <200412171801.iBHI04jg013970@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041217174334.00a47100@pop.onemain.com> > >Message: 9 >Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 20:40:23 +0000 >From: cvendel@att.net >Subject: Vintage Edison Recorder... >To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > >This is OT, however, > > If anyone is into historical items, this is something you should have a gander at: > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38029&item=229457049 0&rd=1 > > >True piece of early Edison history there! > > >Curt > Wow! OT or not, this is great! Thank you, Robert Greenstreet ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- From ljw-cctech at ljw.me.uk Fri Dec 17 17:09:27 2004 From: ljw-cctech at ljw.me.uk (Lawrence Wilkinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Differential Analysers and Scientific American In-Reply-To: <01f401c4e3f5$afdb6420$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <1103234649.16630.27.camel@ljw.me.uk> <01f401c4e3f5$afdb6420$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <1103324966.19122.14.camel@ljw.me.uk> On Fri, 2004-12-17 at 05:03, John Allain wrote: > > I was wondering whether anyone here with '70s > > issues of SciAm might be able to make a copy, > > Likely I have the issue stored. > I'd have to leave it to you right > now to find out which issue it would be. > With that info I could make you a copy. > > John A. > hope this can help you Thanks, perhaps someone has the consolidated index which (I think) will list it. -- Lawrence Wilkinson lawrence@ljw.me.uk Ph +44(0)1869-811059 http://www.ljw.me.uk From bqt at Update.UU.SE Fri Dec 17 17:36:24 2004 From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Oldest computer on the internet? In-Reply-To: <006201c4e46e$110ee1e0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> References: <00ce01c4e468$13c250d0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <00e101c4e468$5d8c6430$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <006201c4e46e$110ee1e0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Dec 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: >>>> Does anyone know what the oldest documented functional computer is that > is >>>> connected to the internet? >>> ..... and is accessible by others via telnet, etc? >> >> Still don't know, but still have one that is 29 years old... >> >> Johnny > > Is yours Magica, the PDP-11/70? How do I get to it? Is it always online? Yes. You normally telnet to magica.update.uu.se. Unfortunately it is powered off at the moment, because we have a tight electricity budget imposed on us since about six months ago. It's still fully operational, and I just need to turn a key to have it online. We plan to have a substitute machine online for now, as Magica can't be on 24/7, but I have had trouble getting a sysadm to put a machine at my disposal with two ethernet interfaces (mostly a question of time). John Wilson have gratiously donated an E11 license for Magica' to run on. (Many thanks for that!) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Dec 17 18:15:04 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Oldest computer on the internet? In-Reply-To: "Ashley Carder" "Re: Oldest computer on the internet?" (Dec 17, 13:43) References: <00ce01c4e468$13c250d0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <00e101c4e468$5d8c6430$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Message-ID: <10412180015.ZM19564@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 17 2004, 13:43, Ashley Carder wrote: > > Does anyone know what the oldest documented functional computer is that is > > connected to the internet? > ..... and is accessible by others via telnet, etc? I'd suppose David Gesswein's PDP-8 would be a candidate. I have a PDP-11/83 called titus running BSD2.11 which is internet-accessible, and my PDP-8/E has a serial line on a terminal server which is also internet-accessible, but neither is powered up 24/7. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From vax9000 at gmail.com Fri Dec 17 18:20:27 2004 From: vax9000 at gmail.com (9000 VAX) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: vaxbrick 4000-50? In-Reply-To: <005c01c4e485$7f3f1380$5b01a8c0@flexpc> References: <006301c4e3a4$2536da30$5b01a8c0@flexpc> <005c01c4e485$7f3f1380$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 22:12:26 -0000, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > I'll see if I can dig up any documents, but from memory, it > > was a pretty rare upgrade. You swapped it in place of the > > CPU on one of the other MicroVAX systems of the time - > > possibly a VAX 4000-200 (or similar)? > > I did a bit of hunting on ebay and found the auction I guess > you were thnking of: > 5738502460 - "VAXServer 3800 w/ VAXBrick 4000-50 upgrade" > > Opening price of $999 ... they were'nt **that** r@re !! Considering that a VAX 700A was sold on ebay for $111 two days ago, you surely will think $999 is too high. vax, 9000 > > Maybe it will be a bit more sensibly priced next time around? > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > > From cb at mythtech.net Fri Dec 17 19:20:43 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: Panasonic 805 Calculator Message-ID: >That is almost certainly vacuum fluorescent. There are a lot of such >displays that use the same kind of seven-segment number formation you >commonly see with LEDs. Yes, I did more digging and found a web site specializing in vintage calculators, and it had a full discussion on the different types of displays... and yes, it does appear that I have Vacuum Fluorescent Display Tubes. This was reaffirmed with a closer inspection (with the aid of a flashlight) and each of the segments appears to be an individual tube (you can see the curves of the front as well as the typical peaked top). I've yet to open it to see if they are socketed or soldered... I figured I'd leave that until I new more about the technology and if the tubes are repairable, or if I can get the correct replacement part. -chris From nschepers at govital.net Fri Dec 17 19:45:38 2004 From: nschepers at govital.net (Nathan Schepers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:26 2005 Subject: netbooting from w2k In-Reply-To: <26c11a6404121614053a16186b@mail.gmail.com> References: <26c11a6404121517307511244b@mail.gmail.com> <41C1ED45.9080002@sbcglobal.net> <41C1F9D8.4080209@govital.net> <26c11a6404121614053a16186b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41C38BC2.4090202@govital.net> Thanks, I managed to find a package by Cabletron that does bootpd/tftpd for windows. It worked fine for me to get a NetBSD image over to the machine (even though the NetBSD-pmax pages suggest that tftp netbooting isn't possible with my PROM). I'm able to start installing via NFS served from cygwin, but I don't have enough space on my RZ24-E drive (SCSI, 209MB) to hold the base system. What I'm thinking is that I don't really need the full base system -- all I want for now is enough of a system to run a tiny httpd for fun... does anyone know whether there's a stripped-down NetBSD that can be run, or another OS that's trivial to install via the bootp/tftp method above, and is small enough to fit? Thanks again for all your ideas. Dan Williams wrote: > On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:42:47 -0500, 9000 VAX wrote: > >>On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:10:48 -0500, Nathan Schepers >> wrote: >> >>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>Hash: SHA1 >>> >>>Does anyone have any information or links to free utilities to do the >>>bootp/tftp/rarp stuff necessary to netboot machines from a Windows 2000 >>>machine? I'm thinking specifically of a DECstation 5000/125 and the >>>VAXStations that I have. >> >>I'd suggest NetBSD/i386 as net booting server. I tried to setup a >>linux to net boot my vax 3900 but failed. I forgot the reason. >>Unwilling to spend more time to solve the problem, I turned to NetBSD. >>Easy and straight. >> >>vax, 9000 >> > > > If you want to keep windows running i'd suggest netbsd/i386 under > vmware or virtual pc. If you don't have them then netbsd/vax under > simh I assume would work. I definatly works under vms to boot > machines it can even join a cluster. > > Dan > > Dan > > . > -- Nathan Schepers (nschepers@govital.net) () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\ - against microsoft attachments From melamy at earthlink.net Fri Dec 17 20:42:20 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: MDS 225 Update Message-ID: <29116437.1103337740603.JavaMail.root@gonzo.psp.pas.earthlink.net> I second the spare parts threat... no need. As for the cable pinout, I may have it with me (I just flew into Seattle from Virginia for the holidays). If I don't then I can email the connection scheme when I get back after the 2nd of January. I detailed not only the external cable, but the internal cable to make the internal drive a double density. I can send iPDS disks after I get back on the 2nd also. I'm with Dave, no need to replace the internal drive. Leave all the hardware as-is for now. The double density is the controller - not the drive. best regards, Steve Thatcher From jrasite at eoni.com Fri Dec 17 21:21:07 2004 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Oldest computer on the internet? In-Reply-To: <009601c4e466$f6b6aaa0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Message-ID: Probably not the oldest, but none-the-less a feat of ancient technology: Mac SE: Mac Plus: a list of others: Jim On Friday, December 17, 2004, at 10:33 AM, Ashley Carder wrote: > Does anyone know what the oldest documented functional computer is > that is connected to the internet? > > Ashley > > The first lemming to lead his peers off the cliff is a bold and decisive leader. From swtpc6800 at comcast.net Fri Dec 17 22:32:35 2004 From: swtpc6800 at comcast.net (Michael Holley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: SWTPC 6800 system in Italy Message-ID: <001201c4e4ba$98fd17b0$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> I got this email today. Does anyone in Italy or Europe want a SWTPC 6800 system? Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paolo Meyer" Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 8:49 AM Subject: request of info about SWTPC > Dear friend, > I was one of the first italian SWTPC users. Now I need more room in my > apartment so I need to give away some original BOXES and Boards. > > Do you know if exist in Europe or at least in Italy someone who can > be interested in this kind of olds stuff? > > Many thanks for your help. > > Paolo Meyer From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Dec 18 03:09:45 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: netbooting from w2k In-Reply-To: <41C38BC2.4090202@govital.net> References: <26c11a6404121517307511244b@mail.gmail.com> <41C1ED45.9080002@sbcglobal.net> <41C1F9D8.4080209@govital.net> <26c11a6404121614053a16186b@mail.gmail.com> <41C38BC2.4090202@govital.net> Message-ID: <20041218100945.63d55e1e.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 20:45:38 -0500 Nathan Schepers wrote: > does anyone know whether there's a stripped-down NetBSD that can > be run, or another OS that's trivial to install via the bootp/tftp > method above, and is small enough to fit? The bare minimum distribution sets that must be instaled are base.tgz and etc.tgz. Everything else is optional. They should fit well in 100 MB. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From river at zip.com.au Fri Dec 17 16:29:41 2004 From: river at zip.com.au (river) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: MDS 225 Update Message-ID: <009a01c4e487$e7e244a0$5820083d@river> Hi, Dear people, I do apologise if my attitude came across that "I'm gonna rip this apart for spares if I can't fix it", or if I came across aggressive. It was not my intent to antagonise, nor was it my desire to induce sympathy. Unfortunately the written word often lacks the character and nuances of speech. So, let me rephrase.... I purchased an old Intel MDS Series-4, specificaly for spare parts for my operating MDS Series4. The advertised unit has a memory error, but the rest of it checks out fine. My preference is to try and fix the broken unit. However, should my main unit have a problem I can always use the busted one to be a donor. If anyone knows exactly what chip 0000:8001 refers to (when doing a RAM test), then I will replace the offending component and have this unit fully operational. Which will make me a happy chappy. When I went to collect the unit the seller also said I could have the 225 unit. I spent a lot of time cleaning dirt and mud out of the 225 and then searched the internet for information. My intent was, and still is, to get this old beast running as good as they day it was made. If it wasn't, then I would of not bothered to take the unit or search for info on it, or come to this forum for advice. My comment, regarding "using it for spares" merely means it will be put away, somewhere safe and sound with all my other old stuff - some of which I have had to use for donor chips to get some SBC and other boards operational. It would indeed be a sad, sad day that I would need to pull it apart for bits. Once again, I apologise if my comments caused you angst. Now, back to the 225 issue. Yes, the disk drive array is a blue-box, twin-floppy unit that sits atop the main unit. The main unit has the two-board set that is required to run this double-density drive array. I have contacted the seller to ensure there isn't a cable left behind. Hopefully he has it still and that will be great. If not, I am more than happy to wait for pin-outs and, once supplied, I will make the cable. The other blue-box is the expansion chasis that sits under the main unit to give it a few more slots. I haven't powered up or even cleaned the disk-drive or expansion unit yet. They'll be done during the week. In the interim, I'm reading through the pdf files that you have kindly pointed me to. As per your advice, I won't be pulling apart the unit or do anything untoward until I get more information regarding boot disks and cable pinouts. The iPDS was a freebie given to me when I purchased my initial MDS Series4 some years ago. I have found very little information on this unit and therefore it has been set aside and I thought, "why not ask about the iPDS while I'm here" and it's good to see that there are some people out there that can help me get this unit operational. Other than that, I have no idea about this box - though I'd dearly love to get it going. I do have an old 486 DOS machine with 3 and 5 inch diskette drives, so I can get the iPDS disks done on that machine. My aim, with all this old stuff is to fix it as my main task. I don't collect things (like chip collectors) for looks. I like and want (almost have an inbuilt urge) to make it work and I love to have them all operational. I have fixed and have operational my old SC/MP, 6800 Micro Module, Central Data 2650, AIM65, STD bus and various Intel SBC systems - however, the old TI99/189 system (and a few others) have eluded me for quite some time, but I won't give up on them. Furthermore, I have an inventory of old processors, memory and peripheral chips and, using the Series4 with ICE85B, I build 8085 systems. I am hoping the 225 gets operational so I can do some stuff with the 8080 chip - like do some old S100 work and repairs on an SBC80/24. I'd love to build an 8080 system also. So please, don't think of me as a destroyer of old systems. I'm a preserver, who should of used a better phrase than "used for spare parts". :) I do hope you accept my apology, and I am extremely grateful for your assistance and advice. seeyuzz river From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Dec 18 10:15:59 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Oldest computer on the internet? In-Reply-To: <10412180015.ZM19564@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <00ce01c4e468$13c250d0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <00e101c4e468$5d8c6430$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <10412180015.ZM19564@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: >On Dec 17 2004, 13:43, Ashley Carder wrote: >> > Does anyone know what the oldest documented functional computer is >that is >> > connected to the internet? >> ..... and is accessible by others via telnet, etc? > >I'd suppose David Gesswein's PDP-8 would be a candidate. I have a >PDP-11/83 called titus running BSD2.11 which is internet-accessible, >and my PDP-8/E has a serial line on a terminal server which is also >internet-accessible, but neither is powered up 24/7. In part it depends on ones definition of Internet accessible. Does telneting to a VMS box, then using DECnet to connect to the target host count? If so I've had a PDP-11/23 running RSX-11M accessible. If I had access to it, my PDP-11/44 which is about 25 years old could be accessible (it's currently buried under a pile of stuff in my folks garage, but if I need to I can get access to it on a clear day without to much trouble). I could easily make my PDP-11/73 accessible via the Telnet to VMS then DECnet to PDP-11 trick with it running RSTS/E, RSX-11M, or RSX-11M+. I could also have it directly accessible running RT-11/TSX+. I suppose the /73 is pushing 18-20 years old (I don't really know, it's build from a MicroVAX II BA123 chassis, and parts I've collected over the years). The only thing powered up 24/7 is my VMS server though, I can't afford the power to keep a PDP-11 running 24/7. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Dec 18 11:11:26 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive Message-ID: <007301c4e524$a07f09c0$1b406b43@66067007> IS it IBM? I need one for a museum display we are putting together. Thanks From chenmel at earthlink.net Sat Dec 18 11:22:04 2004 From: chenmel at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive In-Reply-To: <007301c4e524$a07f09c0$1b406b43@66067007> References: <007301c4e524$a07f09c0$1b406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <20041218122204.3c58dbcb.chenmel@earthlink.net> On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 11:11:26 -0600 "Keys" wrote: > IS it IBM? I need one for a museum display we are putting together. Thanks Smallest in size, or in capacity? My first hard drive was a Shugart 5 meg drive, MFM encoding. Was there ever a smaller hard drive by capacity for the 'PeeCee' or otherwise? 5 megs was a LOT of space at the time. Physically smallest, wasn't there a drive called the 'matchbox' drive? Smallest I've owned was a little PCMCIA hard drive, which isn't as small as the 'matchbox' drive. From mcesari at comcast.net Sat Dec 18 11:31:47 2004 From: mcesari at comcast.net (Mike Cesari) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive In-Reply-To: <007301c4e524$a07f09c0$1b406b43@66067007> References: <007301c4e524$a07f09c0$1b406b43@66067007> Message-ID: On Dec 18, 2004, at 10:11 AM, Keys wrote: > IS it IBM? I need one for a museum display we are putting together. > Thanks > The physically smallest hard drives available are the IBM/Hitachi microdrives. They fit compactflash type II slots. Mike From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Dec 18 11:31:46 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive References: <007301c4e524$a07f09c0$1b406b43@66067007> <20041218122204.3c58dbcb.chenmel@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <008401c4e527$74415360$1b406b43@66067007> Looking for the smallest in physical size and not compact flash drives. The matchbox sounds like the one I may be looking for. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Stevens" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 11:22 AM Subject: Re: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive > On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 11:11:26 -0600 > "Keys" wrote: > >> IS it IBM? I need one for a museum display we are putting together. >> Thanks > > Smallest in size, or in capacity? My first hard drive was a Shugart 5 meg > drive, MFM encoding. Was there ever a smaller hard drive by capacity for > the 'PeeCee' or otherwise? 5 megs was a LOT of space at the time. > > Physically smallest, wasn't there a drive called the 'matchbox' drive? > Smallest I've owned was a little PCMCIA hard drive, which isn't as small > as the 'matchbox' drive. > From brain at jbrain.com Sat Dec 18 11:33:19 2004 From: brain at jbrain.com (Jim Brain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive In-Reply-To: <007301c4e524$a07f09c0$1b406b43@66067007> References: <007301c4e524$a07f09c0$1b406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <41C469DF.4040709@jbrain.com> Keys wrote: > IS it IBM? I need one for a museum display we are putting together. > Thanks I'm assuming physical size here. I have an IBM CompactFlash drive, which is the same size as a Type II CF card. IBM sold that business to Toshiba, as I recall, but I believe IBM developed. I also faintly remember a tiny drive made as a proof of concept by Citizen or some watch compny called Tiger or similar. It used watch parts, as I recall. Jim -- Jim Brain, Brain Innovations brain@jbrain.com http://www.jbrain.com Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, Old CBM computers, and Good Times! From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Dec 18 11:43:06 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive In-Reply-To: <008401c4e527$74415360$1b406b43@66067007> References: <007301c4e524$a07f09c0$1b406b43@66067007> <20041218122204.3c58dbcb.chenmel@earthlink.net> <008401c4e527$74415360$1b406b43@66067007> Message-ID: >Looking for the smallest in physical size and not compact flash >drives. The matchbox sounds like the one I may be looking for. I think they were used in the Dauphin DTR-1's. The capacity is something like 40Mb. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Sat Dec 18 12:04:15 2004 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive In-Reply-To: <20041218122204.3c58dbcb.chenmel@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <001b01c4e52b$fc9e3e40$4d4d2c0a@atx> > Smallest in size, or in capacity? My first hard drive was a > Shugart 5 meg drive, MFM encoding. Was there ever a smaller hard > drive by capacity for the 'PeeCee' or otherwise? 5 megs was a > LOT of space at the time. > Probably nothing of smaller capacity in modern days, but much smaller ones used to exist .... ask PDP8 people about the df32 disk :-) My experience of early hard disks was with the ICT EDS-4 which stored 4M 6-bit characters (ie about 3 MB) - the (exchangeable) disk pack was close to the size of a complete PC ... the drives were referred to as "washing machines" because of their size and appearance. (and the controller was about the same size also). The IBM equivalent was, I think, the 1311 ... the 2311 being equivalent to the ICT EDS-8 (which had twice as many tracks as the eds4 but was otherwise identical) Then our PDP11 had an RK05 which was of similar capacity but somewhat more compact. All these are pre "Winchester" (3030) technology Andy -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.5.4 - Release Date: 15/12/04 From vaxlion at postal.lionsden.com Sat Dec 18 12:18:55 2004 From: vaxlion at postal.lionsden.com (Michael) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Macintosh collector groups? Message-ID: <41C4748F.6050100@postal.lionsden.com> Howdy all, I have two Macs, a Mac IIsi and 7200, I would like to get rid of. Does anyone have any recommendation for a Mac collectors group that might have some individuals interested in these machines? Listings for these machines on both Ebay and Vintage Marketplace have yeilded no takers. Thanks, -- Michael From vcf at siconic.com Sat Dec 18 12:25:57 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Problems reading older disk on newer drive Message-ID: I think we've discussed this before. Sorry if we're re-treading old ground. I'm trying to read a disk an old double-density PC formatted disk on a high-density drive. I can read the directory and certain small files just fine, but any files that are larger than a few sectors (or perhaps that span a track) return "Sector Not Found" errors. What is the deal with that? This is under DOS 6.22. Is there a way to get DOS to recognize that this is a double-density disk and to perform whatever internal magic is necessary to read the disk properly? Or is this an issue of hardware? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pkoning at equallogic.com Sat Dec 18 12:38:57 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive References: <007301c4e524$a07f09c0$1b406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <16836.31041.892000.273545@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Keys" == Keys writes: Keys> IS it IBM? I need one for a museum display we are putting Keys> together. IBM doesn't make disk drives anymore. It may be Hitachi (who bought IBM's disk business). Failing that, Toshiba. See EE Times, one of the past few weeks, they had a picture of a drive balanced on a fingertip. I think the thing was about 0.8 inches wide... paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Sat Dec 18 12:43:02 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive References: <20041218122204.3c58dbcb.chenmel@earthlink.net> <001b01c4e52b$fc9e3e40$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <16836.31286.179000.440825@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Andy" == Andy Holt writes: >> Smallest in size, or in capacity? My first hard drive was a >> Shugart 5 meg drive, MFM encoding. Was there ever a smaller hard >> drive by capacity for the 'PeeCee' or otherwise? 5 megs was a LOT >> of space at the time. >> Andy> Probably nothing of smaller capacity in modern days, but much Andy> smaller ones used to exist .... ask PDP8 people about the df32 Andy> disk :-) ...or RC64, on a PDP11... I had RT11 on one of those. Andy> My experience of early hard disks was with the ICT EDS-4 which Andy> stored 4M 6-bit characters (ie about 3 MB) - the (exchangeable) Andy> disk pack was close to the size of a complete PC ... the drives Andy> were referred to as "washing machines" because of their size Andy> and appearance. (and the controller was about the same size Andy> also). The IBM equivalent was, I think, the 1311 ... the 2311 Andy> being equivalent to the ICT EDS-8 (which had twice as many Andy> tracks as the eds4 but was otherwise identical) 1311, indeed. Used one on a 1620. 100 cylinders, 20 sectors per track I think, 100 digits per sector. The head actuator was hydraulic, and once sprang a leak, spraying hydraulic fluid all over the system pack... Andy> Then our PDP11 had an RK05 which was of similar capacity but Andy> somewhat more compact. Much higher... 2.4 MB on just one platter. paul From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Sat Dec 18 12:50:03 2004 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Macintosh collector groups? In-Reply-To: <41C4748F.6050100@postal.lionsden.com> Message-ID: <1gozko9.1khhrvv1j1vzqeM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Michael wrote: > Howdy all, > > I have two Macs, a Mac IIsi and 7200, I would like to get rid of. Does > anyone have any recommendation for a Mac collectors group that might > have some individuals interested in these machines? Listings for these > machines on both Ebay and Vintage Marketplace have yeilded no takers. The Low End Mac Swap mailing list. http://lowendmac.com/lists/swap.html -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com From danjr at voyager.net Sat Dec 18 13:08:07 2004 From: danjr at voyager.net (danjr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive Message-ID: <200412181908.iBIJ88Ux052054@mail2.mx.voyager.net> > Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 11:11:26 -0600 > From: "Keys" > Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive > To: "cctalk@classiccmp" > > IS it IBM? I need one for a museum display we are putting together. Thanks > Toshiba has one less than an inch across that holds 2.5-GB. They also had another one that was 1.8-inches and held 40-GB. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3381997.stm From rickb at bensene.com Sat Dec 18 13:32:39 2004 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Panasonic 805 Calculator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041218193238.BF2422C003@pail.bensene.com> This calculator definitely uses Vacuum Fluorescent (VF) display tubes. The problem could be the VF tube itself, but not likely. The more likely problem is the digit driver. In this particular calculator, I believe that there were individual driver transistors for each digit (and for each segment). If some of the digit driver transistors gets weak, the display can exhibit strange behavior. The issue is back tracing the tube to its associated digit driver, then identify the type of transistor (PNP or NPN, silicon or germanium), and general specs (beta, and voltage/current rating) and find a suitable current-day replacement. Another option -- get another example of the calculator. The following was on eBay for $9.99 last week, and didn't sell. http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=58042&item=5736472863& rd=1 It looks VERY nice, with original carrying case. You might be able to contact the seller and make a good deal on it. Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Web Museum http://oldcalculatormuseum.com From dave04a at dunfield.com Sat Dec 18 13:51:08 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: LF: VT-180 parts Message-ID: <20041218195107.CBEB5758.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Hi again Guys, Had a VT-180 show up on my doorstep last week, and knowing another local collector who had one in "unknown condition", I decided to spend some time working on the two machines. Good news is that I have both of them working and booting up. But there are assorted bits and pieces missing, if anyone happens to have any of these VT-180 parts kicking around, please let me know: - One machine is missing the drive cable (the data cable from the VT-180 to the RX-180 disk unit) - One machine is missing the metal back cover/shield for the card cage - Both machines are missing the plastic shroud which covers the above mentioned cover/shield and connectors. - Both machines have "VT-100" nameplates - would like to find the VT-180 nameplates. - One machine is missing the ESC and '3' keys from the keyboard - this is a standard VT-100 keyboard, so keys from a VT-100 would also be a perfect match. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Dec 18 14:55:30 2004 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive Message-ID: <6a.4b04d922.2ef5f342@aol.com> http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2004_01/pr0801.htm Looks like Hitachi. Paxton Astoria, OR From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Dec 18 14:56:13 2004 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive Message-ID: err...Toshiba..... From aw288 at osfn.org Sat Dec 18 15:48:40 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive In-Reply-To: <001b01c4e52b$fc9e3e40$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: > All these are pre "Winchester" (3030) technology Winchester was the 3340. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From tomj at wps.com Sat Dec 18 16:19:29 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Panasonic 805 Calculator In-Reply-To: <20041218193238.BF2422C003@pail.bensene.com> References: <20041218193238.BF2422C003@pail.bensene.com> Message-ID: > This calculator definitely uses Vacuum Fluorescent (VF) display tubes. I agree it's likely electronics, but if you can get it apart (I have no idea if we're talking about a cheap glued-together plastic job or a big expensive desktop) I'd give the HV section a good cleaning with alcohol (no! not that subject again!) and a clean rag. Harmless (no! not that subject again!) to the PC board and all. If it's operated by a cigarette smoker it could be the problem. From news at computercollector.com Sat Dec 18 16:30:30 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive In-Reply-To: <007301c4e524$a07f09c0$1b406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <20041218223030.1722.qmail@web52802.mail.yahoo.com> The .85 is obviosly smaller, but Hitachi's is at 4GB already. Officially it's "Hitachi Global Storage Technologies" which is still partially owned by IBM, and which is based in an old IBM building with mostly IBM-derived employees in San Jose. FYI, I have very good contacts in HGST's media department, so if anyone has further questions about it, then contact me off-list and I'll publish the replies in an upcoming issue of the Computer Collector Newsletter. --- Keys wrote: > IS it IBM? I need one for a museum display we are putting together. Thanks > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 600 readers and counting! From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Sat Dec 18 16:33:44 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: HP25 / HP25C user's poll - Request for Programs Message-ID: I just recently got an HP25. I like it this much (1E99++). I am putting together an applications pack of sorts that I will be able to make available as a PDF. I have 4 programs so far, Do any of you have/use the HP25 calculator? Do you have an HP25 programs you'd like to see in print? Send programs off list: ron.hudson at sbcglobal dot net All programs will be added. I have the HP25 applications book, let's not duplicate anything there. From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sat Dec 18 17:33:03 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Stag PPZ EPROM programmer Message-ID: <41C4BE2F.6010601@gifford.co.uk> I have a fine old Stag PPZ modular EPROM programmer: http://www.gifford.co.uk/~coredump/inst.htm#PPZ It takes plug-in EPROM (model Zm2000) and PAL (Zm2200) modules, called Z-modules by Stag. I've recently acquired a new module, Zm3000, which looks like a more recent EPROM module. The chips in the Zm3000 are date coded in 1993, whereas the Zm2000 is nearer 1988. The PPZ main unit contains a 6809 CPU and a small CRT display. Does anyone know anything about this system? What about other Z-module types? In particular, should the Zm3000 work with the PPZ, because I currently get an error message "Incorrect Mainframe"? Thanks in advance for any clues! (Virtually all I get from Google is a link back to my own web page!) -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Dec 18 18:44:03 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive In-Reply-To: <007301c4e524$a07f09c0$1b406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041218194403.00904d10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> HP built some 1.3" drives. They were the Kittyhawk series. Joe At 11:11 AM 12/18/04 -0600, you wrote: >IS it IBM? I need one for a museum display we are putting together. Thanks > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Dec 18 18:54:26 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Stag PPZ EPROM programmer In-Reply-To: <41C4BE2F.6010601@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041218195426.00912e00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi, I have two of the PPZs AND (drum roll, please!) THE MANUAL! I have two different type plug ins. One for standard EPROMs and one for BiPolar PROMs (and maybe PALs) but I don't remember their model numbers but 2000 and 2200 sound right. It sounds like your 3000 module is made for another machine and not for the PPZ. I'll have to retrieve the manual from the warehouse but I don't think it lists the various modules that go with the PPZ. Joe At 11:33 PM 12/18/04 +0000, you wrote: > >I have a fine old Stag PPZ modular EPROM programmer: > > http://www.gifford.co.uk/~coredump/inst.htm#PPZ > >It takes plug-in EPROM (model Zm2000) and PAL (Zm2200) modules, called >Z-modules by Stag. I've recently acquired a new module, Zm3000, which >looks like a more recent EPROM module. The chips in the Zm3000 are >date coded in 1993, whereas the Zm2000 is nearer 1988. The PPZ main >unit contains a 6809 CPU and a small CRT display. > >Does anyone know anything about this system? What about other Z-module >types? In particular, should the Zm3000 work with the PPZ, because I >currently get an error message "Incorrect Mainframe"? > >Thanks in advance for any clues! (Virtually all I get from Google is a >link back to my own web page!) > >-- >John Honniball >coredump@gifford.co.uk > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Dec 18 19:14:16 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Interesting stuff on E-bay Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041218201416.0096c7c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> 1972 Univac 1100 manual Analog computer Programming Patch Panel Motorola MC68HC11 Evaluation Board Tektronix manuals in German, French, Japanese and English HP 9000 800/900 memory DEC OS/78 manual InfaRed Heat Gun See From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Dec 18 19:26:14 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Stag PPZ EPROM programmer In-Reply-To: <41C4BE2F.6010601@gifford.co.uk> References: <41C4BE2F.6010601@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <77117e1f4d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <41C4BE2F.6010601@gifford.co.uk> John Honniball wrote: > I have a fine old Stag PPZ modular EPROM programmer: [snip] I've got a PP40 with a gang programmer module. Unfortunately, my PP40 doesn't have the serial I/O board, which makes it a little useless for anything other than EPROM copying :-/ A copy of the schematic for the serial I/O board would be very handy, but I suspect schematics never left Stag's HQ :-/ Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... If I save the whales, where do I keep them? From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Dec 18 15:20:50 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041218194403.00904d10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <007301c4e524$a07f09c0$1b406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <20041219021213.POHB1899.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@wizard> > Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 19:44:03 -0500 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > From: "Joe R." > Subject: Re: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive > Reply-to: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > HP built some 1.3" drives. They were the Kittyhawk series. I remember now, That mechanicals was manufactured by citizen who makes watches and yes, Citizen does use watch parts. I know what parts especially screws and how parts looks since I worked with them before. It is citizen's for sure on parts. Electricals by HP. Ah that was old days! Soon, the tiny HD by hitachi will come out with dizzying 80GB. Oh, the interface is laptop IDE pinout. Cheers, Wizard > > Joe From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Dec 18 20:34:18 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive In-Reply-To: <007301c4e524$a07f09c0$1b406b43@66067007> References: <007301c4e524$a07f09c0$1b406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <32952.64.169.63.74.1103423658.squirrel@64.169.63.74> > IS it IBM? I need one for a museum display we are putting together. At one time it was the HP/Seiko "KittyHawk" drive. I'm not aware of any physically smaller rotating-media drives. From allain at panix.com Sat Dec 18 20:51:24 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive References: <007301c4e524$a07f09c0$1b406b43@66067007> <32952.64.169.63.74.1103423658.squirrel@64.169.63.74> Message-ID: <07d101c4e575$a18e2c00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > At one time it was the {1.3"} HP/Seiko "KittyHawk" drive. > I'm not aware of any physically smaller rotating-media drives. The IBM Microdrive Googles as 1" and that matches a rough observation of the case & spindle location. John A. From williams.dan at gmail.com Sat Dec 18 21:29:09 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Indigo Keyboard Message-ID: <26c11a6404121819291d0e7af@mail.gmail.com> Didn't somebody say they where after an indigo keybaord a while back. There's one on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1486&item=5737539024 Dan From fernande at internet1.net Sat Dec 18 22:36:41 2004 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Macintosh collector groups? In-Reply-To: <41C4748F.6050100@postal.lionsden.com> References: <41C4748F.6050100@postal.lionsden.com> Message-ID: <41C50559.3080608@internet1.net> Michael, I used to belong to a Mac mailing list, when I had a Mac Plus. After looking on Google, I think I found it again. http://www.nehaia.dk/cm_archives/CMTP.html Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Michael wrote: > Howdy all, > > I have two Macs, a Mac IIsi and 7200, I would like to get rid of. Does > anyone have any recommendation for a Mac collectors group that might > have some individuals interested in these machines? Listings for these > machines on both Ebay and Vintage Marketplace have yeilded no takers. > > Thanks, > > -- Michael > > From nico at farumdata.dk Sun Dec 19 00:25:54 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Problems reading older disk on newer drive References: Message-ID: <002101c4e593$9ae700c0$2101a8c0@finans> From: "Vintage Computer Festival" Subject: Problems reading older disk on newer drive > I'm trying to read a disk an old double-density PC formatted disk on a > high-density drive. I can read the directory and certain small files just > fine, but any files that are larger than a few sectors (or perhaps that > span a track) return "Sector Not Found" errors. > This is under DOS 6.22. Is there a way to get DOS to recognize that this > is a double-density disk and to perform whatever internal magic is > necessary to read the disk properly? Or is this an issue of hardware? Normally, there would not be a problem, supposing it is a 360K disk (I guess you are talking about 5.25" disks). What I _have_ seen, is that "modern" BIOS'es have problems / cannot read disks formatted as 320K. Back in the old days, 5.25" disks came in even more flavours, like 160K (I've never seen an 80K 5.25" though) I cant find my DOS manuals right now, but there used to be a function in DEVICE in CONFIG.SYS where you could do some rather clever things with regard to disk formats. If your Octopus system had been working, you could have done a Transfer / Input / Floppy / Analyse. This will also reveal if it is a proper MS-DOS / PC-DOS disk, or some knock-off. There were some DOS OEM versions around (Sord, for one), which could read and write 360K disks, but puked when presented for 1.2M disks. Nico From tomj at wps.com Sun Dec 19 00:47:32 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Problems reading older disk on newer drive In-Reply-To: <002101c4e593$9ae700c0$2101a8c0@finans> References: <002101c4e593$9ae700c0$2101a8c0@finans> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Dec 2004, Nico de Jong wrote: > Normally, there would not be a problem, supposing it is a 360K disk (I guess > you are talking about 5.25" disks). > What I _have_ seen, is that "modern" BIOS'es have problems / cannot read > disks formatted as 320K. Back in the old days, 5.25" disks came in even more > flavours, like 160K (I've never seen an 80K 5.25" though) Somewhere I have a list of the FATid byte values for all the IBM and MSDOS 5.25" diskettes. Basically they include: sides density spt capacity 1 double 8 160k 1 double 9 180k 2 double 8 320k 2 double 9 360k spt means 'sectors per track' physical Then there's issues with @#$%^ IBM (or m'soft) looking for text in the boot sector and not just that FATid (the 1st byte of each FAT) to ID disks, rendering otherwise-proper MSDOS diskettes unusable. AFAIK, IBM never supported single-density. The hardware isn't the problem, there's no FATid defined for it. And who wants 86K diskettes, anyways? From nico at farumdata.dk Sun Dec 19 01:13:37 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Problems reading older disk on newer drive References: <002101c4e593$9ae700c0$2101a8c0@finans> Message-ID: <000601c4e59a$42921250$2101a8c0@finans> From: "Tom Jennings" > > Then there's issues with @#$%^ IBM (or m'soft) looking for > text in the boot sector and not just that FATid (the 1st byte > of each FAT) to ID disks, rendering otherwise-proper MSDOS > diskettes unusable. A related "bug" is the following (maybe even the same?) When I format 3.5" disks on my present conversion system, and insert them in an IBM or Windows system with virus check software, it will speak up and say it found a Kitty virus. Extensive forensic work has shown that this is not the case; the problem is that there is a byte somewhere (can't remember if is is bootsector or FAT), which according to MS-DOS is un-used. Nico From tomj at wps.com Sun Dec 19 01:31:20 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Problems reading older disk on newer drive In-Reply-To: <000601c4e59a$42921250$2101a8c0@finans> References: <002101c4e593$9ae700c0$2101a8c0@finans> <000601c4e59a$42921250$2101a8c0@finans> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Dec 2004, Nico de Jong wrote: > > Then there's issues with @#$%^ IBM (or m'soft) looking for > > text in the boot sector and not just that FATid (the 1st byte > > of each FAT) to ID disks, rendering otherwise-proper MSDOS > > diskettes unusable. > > A related "bug" is the following (maybe even the same?) > When I format 3.5" disks on my present conversion system, and insert them in > an IBM or Windows system with virus check software, it will speak up and say > it found a Kitty virus. Extensive forensic work has shown that this is not > the case; the problem is that there is a byte somewhere (can't remember if > is is bootsector or FAT), which according to MS-DOS is un-used. Ahh, the Inexorable March of Progress. It must be better -- it's newer! PS: As I was getting vietnamese food to go tonight, a counter kid had a Univ. Southern. Calif. T-shirt on, the obverse of which said "So and So Famous Person department for the commercialization of technology" So stupidity has gone institutional. And people think I'm crazy! From cheri-post at web.de Sun Dec 19 05:32:39 2004 From: cheri-post at web.de (Pierre Gebhardt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Questions about the PDP 11/24 Message-ID: <609583183@web.de> Hello all, does anybody know, how much memory the 11/24 can take ? I heard something about 1 MB, others say 4 MB somewhere on the web. Yes, I'm a bit confused... Currently, it's configured with 1 MB. Furthermore, does a DELUA - Card properly work in it ? There's only the card, the bulkhead assembly is missing, I would have to build it by myself... Pierre __________________________________________________________ Mit WEB.DE FreePhone mit hoechster Qualitaet ab 0 Ct./Min. weltweit telefonieren! http://freephone.web.de/?mc=021201 From maillist at komoko.com Sun Dec 19 05:35:43 2004 From: maillist at komoko.com (maillist@komoko.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: MESSAGE NOT DELIVERED: Questions about the PDP 11/24 In-Reply-To: <609583183@web.de> References: <609583183@web.de> Message-ID: <200412191135.iBJBZhUu003117@host.cdnsites.com> Your message could not be delivered. The User is out of space. Please try to send your message again at a later time. From thedm at sunflower.com Sun Dec 19 07:22:59 2004 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Problems reading older disk on newer drive References: Message-ID: <001a01c4e5cd$dc8b4e70$6401a8c0@barton> Is it possible it's an 8 sector disk before dos 2.25? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 12:25 PM Subject: Problems reading older disk on newer drive > > I think we've discussed this before. Sorry if we're re-treading old > ground. > > I'm trying to read a disk an old double-density PC formatted disk on a > high-density drive. I can read the directory and certain small files just > fine, but any files that are larger than a few sectors (or perhaps that > span a track) return "Sector Not Found" errors. What is the deal with > that? > > This is under DOS 6.22. Is there a way to get DOS to recognize that this > is a double-density disk and to perform whatever internal magic is > necessary to read the disk properly? Or is this an issue of hardware? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 19 07:18:01 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Questions about the PDP 11/24 In-Reply-To: "Pierre Gebhardt" "Questions about the PDP 11/24" (Dec 19, 12:32) References: <609583183@web.de> Message-ID: <10412191318.ZM22991@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 19 2004, 12:32, Pierre Gebhardt wrote: > does anybody know, how much memory the 11/24 can take ? > I heard something about 1 MB, others say 4 MB somewhere on the web. Yes, I'm a bit confused... > Currently, it's configured with 1 MB. A basic 11/24 processor uses 22-bit addressing but a Unibus uses 18-bit addressing and therefore can address up to 256KB; the top four bits of address are therefore dropped by the MMU in a basic 11/24. If it's fitted with a Unibus Map (KT24, M7134, which also replaces the M9312 bootstrap card) then an 11/24 can use 22-bit addressing, on an extended Unibus, giving it a 4MB address space. It does this by feeding the output of the MMU through 31 mapping registers which provide relocation, so at any given moment you can actually only address 31 pages, each of 4KW (8KB), plus the I/O page; you need to re-program the mapping registers or the MMU to access the whole 22-bit range. I don't know where the 1MB limit comes from, that would be a 20-bit address range. > Furthermore, does a DELUA - Card properly work in it ? > There's only the card, the bulkhead assembly is missing, I would have to build it by myself... Yes, that should work. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pkoning at equallogic.com Sun Dec 19 11:30:25 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Problems reading older disk on newer drive References: <002101c4e593$9ae700c0$2101a8c0@finans> Message-ID: <16837.47793.609746.395801@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Nico" == Nico de Jong writes: Nico> From: "Vintage Computer Festival" Subject: Nico> Problems reading older disk on newer drive >> I'm trying to read a disk an old double-density PC formatted disk >> on a high-density drive. I can read the directory and certain >> small files just fine, but any files that are larger than a few >> sectors (or perhaps that span a track) return "Sector Not Found" >> errors. This is under DOS 6.22. Is there a way to get DOS to >> recognize that this is a double-density disk and to perform >> whatever internal magic is necessary to read the disk properly? >> Or is this an issue of hardware? Nico> Normally, there would not be a problem, supposing it is a 360K Nico> disk (I guess you are talking about 5.25" disks). What I Nico> _have_ seen, is that "modern" BIOS'es have problems / cannot Nico> read disks formatted as 320K. Back in the old days, 5.25" disks Nico> came in even more flavours, like 160K (I've never seen an 80K Nico> 5.25" though) Nico> I cant find my DOS manuals right now, but there used to be a Nico> function in DEVICE in CONFIG.SYS where you could do some rather Nico> clever things with regard to disk formats. In Linux you can get the floppy driver to read all sorts of weird formats; check out the docs. (I forgot where the details are.) For example, I found that I could have Linux read and write DEC RX50 format floppies, which are 5.25 inch floppies with 10 sectors (not the usual 9) per track. paul From tomj at wps.com Sun Dec 19 12:51:14 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Problems reading older disk on newer drive In-Reply-To: <001a01c4e5cd$dc8b4e70$6401a8c0@barton> References: <001a01c4e5cd$dc8b4e70$6401a8c0@barton> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Dec 2004, Bill Girnius wrote: > Is it possible it's an 8 sector disk before dos 2.25? Well sellam's mail said "PC" so I assumed IBM feces type computer. But yes, there were many MSDOS diskette formats before IBM, and even before MSDOS, when it was 86DOS; I think it had the same FAT structure, I just don't recall. >From the start however Microsoft (in one of their good ideas, presumably after the debacle of CP/M diskette formats) STRONGLY SUGGESTED the use of a table of diskette formats ID's with a particular value of FATid byte. Unsurprisingly the formats were more or less all you could cram on a soft-sectored diskette. Both 8" and 5.25" were given. For some reason, I don't recall and may never have known, FATids run from 0f8h - 0feh. That's not many. So there were overlaps, but the intent (...) was FATid of FE (8" 26 sector I think) could be re-used on a (say) 3" floppy with no confusion. But then PCDOS did that irritating check-for-data-in-the-boot-sector thing. The unix M tools should be able to read any properly formatted diskette, even if a wondows machine wont. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > > To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 12:25 PM > Subject: Problems reading older disk on newer drive > > > > > > I think we've discussed this before. Sorry if we're re-treading old > > ground. > > > > I'm trying to read a disk an old double-density PC formatted disk on a > > high-density drive. I can read the directory and certain small files > > just > > fine, but any files that are larger than a few sectors (or perhaps that > > span a track) return "Sector Not Found" errors. What is the deal with > > that? > > > > This is under DOS 6.22. Is there a way to get DOS to recognize that this > > is a double-density disk and to perform whatever internal magic is > > necessary to read the disk properly? Or is this an issue of hardware? > > > > -- > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > > Festival > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers > > ] > > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From tomj at wps.com Sun Dec 19 12:52:06 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Problems reading older disk on newer drive In-Reply-To: <16837.47793.609746.395801@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <002101c4e593$9ae700c0$2101a8c0@finans> <16837.47793.609746.395801@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Dec 2004, Paul Koning wrote: > In Linux you can get the floppy driver to read all sorts of weird > formats; check out the docs. (I forgot where the details are.) For > example, I found that I could have Linux read and write DEC RX50 > format floppies, which are 5.25 inch floppies with 10 sectors (not the > usual 9) per track. Those are the m tools, they're great! From vcf at siconic.com Sun Dec 19 13:16:23 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: Problems reading older disk on newer drive In-Reply-To: <001a01c4e5cd$dc8b4e70$6401a8c0@barton> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Dec 2004, Bill Girnius wrote: > Is it possible it's an 8 sector disk before dos 2.25? No, and you still owe me $10. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From acme at gbronline.com Sun Dec 19 14:07:55 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:27 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Domain Name Registration References: <200412141915.iBEJFu9l022441@onyx.spiritone.com> <34767.64.139.41.130.1103063294.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: <009301c4e606$6e788180$554f0945@acme> ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Smith To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 5:28 PM Subject: Re: Domain Name Registration > Network Solutions != Verisign. [snip] Okay, so can someone tell me why -- suddenly -- a whois on my domain name -- acme-sales.net -- does not show any of my contact information? It did before, but something has changed. Glen 0/0 From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Dec 19 14:24:29 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Domain Name Registration In-Reply-To: <009301c4e606$6e788180$554f0945@acme> References: <200412141915.iBEJFu9l022441@onyx.spiritone.com> <34767.64.139.41.130.1103063294.squirrel@64.139.41.130> <009301c4e606$6e788180$554f0945@acme> Message-ID: <41C5E37D.2070808@mdrconsult.com> Glen Goodwin wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eric Smith > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 5:28 PM > Subject: Re: Domain Name Registration > > > >>Network Solutions != Verisign. > > > [snip] > > Okay, so can someone tell me why -- suddenly -- a whois on my > domain name -- acme-sales.net -- does not show any of my contact > information? It did before, but something has changed. Most of the registrars now offer a privacy feature that omits your info from whois lookups. It sounds like that's what is happening, but it shouldn't happen without your request/consent. Doc From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 19 14:42:39 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Domain Name Registration In-Reply-To: "Glen Goodwin" "OT: Re: Domain Name Registration" (Dec 19, 15:07) References: <200412141915.iBEJFu9l022441@onyx.spiritone.com> <34767.64.139.41.130.1103063294.squirrel@64.139.41.130> <009301c4e606$6e788180$554f0945@acme> Message-ID: <10412192042.ZM23610@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 19 2004, 15:07, Glen Goodwin wrote: > Okay, so can someone tell me why -- suddenly -- a whois on my > domain name -- acme-sales.net -- does not show any of my contact > information? It did before, but something has changed. Er, it does for me: $ whois -h whois.opensrs.net acme-sales.net Registrant: ACME Enterprises of Orlando 6192 Edgewater Drive Orlando, FL 32810 US Domain name: ACME-SALES.NET Administrative Contact: Goodwin, Glen (email addr here) (4 lines postal address here) (phone number here) Technical Contact: (same 6 lines here) Registration Service Provider: Infinitum Technologies, domains@servercove.com 407-481-2434 407-481-2379 (fax) http://www.servercove.com This company may be contacted for domain login/passwords, DNS/Nameserver changes, and general domain support questions. Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC. Record last updated on 26-Aug-2004. Record expires on 22-Sep-2005. Record created on 22-Sep-2003. Domain servers in listed order: NS2.ZIGIO.COM 66.193.174.19 NS1.ZIGIO.COM 66.193.174.18 Domain status: ACTIVE $ -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Dec 19 17:26:03 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: cool HP-IB find Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041219182603.0096f500@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I went to one of my favorite scrounging spots today and found an interesting disk drive with a HP-IB inteface. The drive was made by IEM and it has two 105Mb removable cartridge drives in it. It looks like it takes Syquest disk cartridges. Does anyone have a couple of spare Syquest 105 mb cartridges to spare so I can try it out? Joe From thedm at sunflower.com Sun Dec 19 22:36:17 2004 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Problems reading older disk on newer drive References: Message-ID: <00fa01c4e64d$723b3690$6401a8c0@barton> A:) why is it not possible B:) Why do I owe you ten dollars C:) If I do, why on earth would you post it publically and not just ask or remind me? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 1:16 PM Subject: Re: Problems reading older disk on newer drive > On Sun, 19 Dec 2004, Bill Girnius wrote: > >> Is it possible it's an 8 sector disk before dos 2.25? > > No, and you still owe me $10. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Dec 19 23:21:01 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Domain Name Registration In-Reply-To: <009301c4e606$6e788180$554f0945@acme> References: <200412141915.iBEJFu9l022441@onyx.spiritone.com> <34767.64.139.41.130.1103063294.squirrel@64.139.41.130> <009301c4e606$6e788180$554f0945@acme> Message-ID: <33369.64.169.63.74.1103520061.squirrel@64.169.63.74> Glen wrote: > Okay, so can someone tell me why -- suddenly -- a whois on my > domain name -- acme-sales.net -- does not show any of my contact > information? It did before, but something has changed Looks OK from here: [whois.opensrs.net] Registrant: ACME Enterprises of Orlando 6192 Edgewater Drive Orlando, FL 32810 US Domain name: ACME-SALES.NET Administrative Contact: Goodwin, Glen admin@acme-sales.net 6192 Edgewater Drive Orlando, FL 32810 US 407-296-2333 Technical Contact: Goodwin, Glen admin@acme-sales.net 6192 Edgewater Drive Orlando, FL 32810 US 407-296-2333 Registration Service Provider: Infinitum Technologies, domains@servercove.com 407-481-2434 407-481-2379 (fax) http://www.servercove.com This company may be contacted for domain login/passwords, DNS/Nameserver changes, and general domain support questions. Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC. Record last updated on 26-Aug-2004. Record expires on 22-Sep-2005. Record created on 22-Sep-2003. Domain servers in listed order: NS2.ZIGIO.COM 66.193.174.19 NS1.ZIGIO.COM 66.193.174.18 Domain status: ACTIVE From news at computercollector.com Mon Dec 20 01:56:05 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Our hobby in The New York Times -- sort of Message-ID: <20041220075605.74504.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> Hi everyone, This is VERY cool: Jeri Ellsworth and her C64 30-in-1 joystick are featured in The New York Times. As I write this email (2:54AM, Monday), it's on the actual nytimes.com homepage, with a color photo of her. The article itself is at (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/20/technology/20joystick.html?8dpc). There is a product review of the 30-in-1, head-to-head against the new Atari Flashback, at my own site (http://news.computercollector.com) -- click the 'reviews' link. Happy vintage gaming! - Evan K. ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 600 readers and counting! From river at zip.com.au Sun Dec 19 16:55:28 2004 From: river at zip.com.au (river) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: The iPDS is alive! Message-ID: <019d01c4e61d$d6c08dc0$372d083d@river> Hi, Thanks to Dave, who sent me the Teledisk images of CP/M and ISIS, I was able to get my old iPDS running after sitting (and doing nothing) for the past few years. For those interested, I used Teledisk Version 2.11 running on an IBM PS/1 (25Mhz 486) running DOS5. I used 360K DD diskettes in the 5inch (1.2M capable) drive and it worked without any errors. I made a couple of copies and they all booted flawlessly in the iPDS. Wonderful stuff! The iPDS also came with a programming module for the 8748, 8749 and 8751. I'm not real familiar with these chips, but I may have a few around and I think I've got the spec sheets on them, so I'll have a bit of a play I can do with it. The MDS225 restoration is going well. I have contacted the seller who has a box of cables and I'm going to see him later this week to see if the dble density drive array cable is there. I hope so 'cos it saves me having to make one. seeyuzz river From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 20 06:20:33 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Problems reading older disk on newer drive In-Reply-To: <00fa01c4e64d$723b3690$6401a8c0@barton> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Dec 2004, Bill Girnius wrote: > A:) why is it not possible Because. > B:) Why do I owe you ten dollars Because you bought something from me a long time ago and never paid. > C:) If I do, why on earth would you post it publically and not just ask or > remind me? Because every time I e-mailed you about it you ignored me. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From thedm at sunflower.com Mon Dec 20 06:30:47 2004 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Problems reading older disk on newer drive References: Message-ID: <000801c4e68f$bb9e44c0$6401a8c0@barton> Maybe you should email me privately about it with your address, what I bought, and I can pay you because I have no idea what you are talking about. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 6:20 AM Subject: Re: Problems reading older disk on newer drive > On Sun, 19 Dec 2004, Bill Girnius wrote: > >> A:) why is it not possible > > Because. > >> B:) Why do I owe you ten dollars > > Because you bought something from me a long time ago and never paid. > >> C:) If I do, why on earth would you post it publically and not just ask >> or >> remind me? > > Because every time I e-mailed you about it you ignored me. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Dec 20 07:28:25 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Interesting stuff on E-bay Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041220082825.0167ab10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> HP 9915 computer HP HEWLETT PACKARD 200 SERIES 9920A SERVICE MANUAL 3 Hewlett Packard HP Computer Sales Brochures 1975 From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Dec 20 09:00:51 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Domain Name Registration In-Reply-To: <41C5E37D.2070808@mdrconsult.com> References: <41C5E37D.2070808@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: In message <41C5E37D.2070808@mdrconsult.com> Doc Shipley wrote: > Most of the registrars now offer a privacy feature that omits your > info from whois lookups. It sounds like that's what is happening, but > it shouldn't happen without your request/consent. Yep - Nominet UK offer it - IIRC it's called "WHOIS Details Opt Out". I've got it active on my domain. I like to keep the distribution of my home address on a need-to-know basis, same as PIN numbers, passwords and such. [quote] $ whois philpem.me.uk Domain Name: philpem.me.uk Registrant: Philip Pemberton Registrant's Address: THE REGISTRANT IS AN INDIVIDUAL WHO HAS ELECTED TO HAVE THEIR ADDRESS OMITTED FROM THE WHOIS DATABASE [endquote] Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Please think when you drink.... From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Mon Dec 20 09:12:02 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1103555522.26108.8.camel@fortran> On Sat, 2004-12-18 at 16:48 -0500, William Donzelli wrote: > > All these are pre "Winchester" (3030) technology > Winchester was the 3340. Yeah, but the engineering nickname for the first voice-coil drive was 30/30 because there were two platters, 30MB each. someone called it the Winchester, and the name stuck - however, the first IBM Winchester might have been the 3340. -- Tore S Bekkedal From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Mon Dec 20 09:19:51 2004 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive In-Reply-To: <1103555522.26108.8.camel@fortran> Message-ID: <000c01c4e6a7$5a001be0$4d4d2c0a@atx> > On Sat, 2004-12-18 at 16:48 -0500, William Donzelli wrote: > > > All these are pre "Winchester" (3030) technology > > Winchester was the 3340. > Yeah, but the engineering nickname for the first voice-coil drive was > 30/30 because there were two platters, 30MB each. someone called it the > Winchester, and the name stuck - however, the first IBM Winchester might > have been the 3340. ... and the name may also have something to do with the device being developed at IBM's Hursley laboratory which is just outside Winchester in England. Andy -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.5.4 - Release Date: 15/12/04 From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Dec 20 09:31:19 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive In-Reply-To: <1103555522.26108.8.camel@fortran> References: <1103555522.26108.8.camel@fortran> Message-ID: <1103556679.26744.10.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-12-20 at 16:12 +0100, Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > On Sat, 2004-12-18 at 16:48 -0500, William Donzelli wrote: > > > All these are pre "Winchester" (3030) technology > > Winchester was the 3340. > Yeah, but the engineering nickname for the first voice-coil drive was > 30/30 because there were two platters, 30MB each. someone called it the > Winchester, and the name stuck - however, the first IBM Winchester might > have been the 3340. > There was a discussion on a local group about the origin of the name Winchester lately; one school of thought bringing up the often repeated tale of the Winchester rifle, but another one interestingly mentioning key technology for the drives that was developed at IBM's R&D outfit near to Winchester here in the UK (actually at Hursley). Neither group seemed to be able to satisfactorily prove or disprove things one way or the other as to the origins of the name. Most books within the last 15 years or so probably base the origin on the rifle, but that may be down to that being the oft-repeated folklore. The link to Winchester in the UK was an interesting one though. cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Dec 20 09:32:10 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive In-Reply-To: <000c01c4e6a7$5a001be0$4d4d2c0a@atx> References: <000c01c4e6a7$5a001be0$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <1103556730.26744.12.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-12-20 at 15:19 +0000, Andy Holt wrote: > ... and the name may also have something to do with the device being > developed at IBM's Hursley laboratory which is just outside Winchester in > England. > > Andy You beat me to it whilst I was writing my reply :) From spectre at floodgap.com Mon Dec 20 10:34:59 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Our hobby in The New York Times -- sort of In-Reply-To: <20041220075605.74504.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> from Computer Collector Newsletter at "Dec 19, 4 11:56:05 pm" Message-ID: <200412201635.IAA13404@floodgap.com> > This is VERY cool: Jeri Ellsworth and her C64 30-in-1 joystick are featured in > The New York Times. As I write this email (2:54AM, Monday), it's on the > actual > nytimes.com homepage, with a color photo of her. The article itself is at > (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/20/technology/20joystick.html?8dpc). If you don't want to register, it's also at http://news.com.com/Toy+with+a+story/2100-7337_3-5497584.html -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- FORTUNE: Today is a great day for making firm decisions. Or is it? --------- From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 20 10:49:44 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive In-Reply-To: <1103556679.26744.10.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > There was a discussion on a local group about the origin of the name > Winchester lately; one school of thought bringing up the often repeated > tale of the Winchester rifle, but another one interestingly mentioning > key technology for the drives that was developed at IBM's R&D outfit > near to Winchester here in the UK (actually at Hursley). > > Neither group seemed to be able to satisfactorily prove or disprove > things one way or the other as to the origins of the name. Most books > within the last 15 years or so probably base the origin on the rifle, > but that may be down to that being the oft-repeated folklore. The link > to Winchester in the UK was an interesting one though. Maybe it was both: the 30/30 evoked the name of the rifle, which also happened to be the name of a nearby locale, and the naming was obvious thenceforth. Just a guess :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 20 10:50:30 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Our hobby in The New York Times -- sort of In-Reply-To: <200412201635.IAA13404@floodgap.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > This is VERY cool: Jeri Ellsworth and her C64 30-in-1 joystick are featured in > > The New York Times. As I write this email (2:54AM, Monday), it's on the > > actual > > nytimes.com homepage, with a color photo of her. The article itself is at > > (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/20/technology/20joystick.html?8dpc). > > If you don't want to register, it's also at > > http://news.com.com/Toy+with+a+story/2100-7337_3-5497584.html For future reference, here's a handy utility: http://www.bugmenot.com Put in the URL of the news article you want to read and out pops a pre-registered username/password for that news site. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From allain at panix.com Mon Dec 20 11:05:15 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Our hobby in The New York Times -- sort of References: <20041220075605.74504.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006e01c4e6b6$13eaae40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > This is VERY cool: Jeri Ellsworth and her C64 30-in-1 joystick... http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/20/technology/20joystick.html The NYT site also features a large scale image of Jeri, Her workbench, and the final product. I'm not really a gamer, but I think I'd like to get one of these. Here it is at QVC: http://www.qvc.com/scripts/detail.dll?item=E22494 John A. ...not affiliated with the seller. damn. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 20 12:41:20 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Apollo Guidance Computer prototype replica Message-ID: This is going to blow your mind. This guy built a replica of the Apollo Guidance Computer prototype circa 1964 using 1960s era components. http://starfish.osfn.org/AGCreplica/ Do I sense here a Best of Show award at the next VCF? :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From RCini at congressfinancial.com Mon Dec 20 12:50:45 2004 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Apollo Guidance Computer prototype replica Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E501EAEF60@mail10.congressfinancial.com> Has anyone cached this yet? The bit rates are so low that it must be hosted on his machine at home. Heaven help him if this story gets posted to Slashdot :-) -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 1:41 PM To: Classic Computers Mailing List Subject: Apollo Guidance Computer prototype replica This is going to blow your mind. This guy built a replica of the Apollo Guidance Computer prototype circa 1964 using 1960s era components. http://starfish.osfn.org/AGCreplica/ Do I sense here a Best of Show award at the next VCF? :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Dec 20 13:21:46 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Apollo Guidance Computer prototype replica In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E501EAEF60@mail10.congressfi nancial.com> References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E501EAEF60@mail10.congressfinancial.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041220130855.05225b78@pc> At 12:50 PM 12/20/2004, you wrote: >Has anyone cached this yet? The bit rates are so low that it must be hosted >on his machine at home. >Heaven help him if this story gets posted to Slashdot :-) Either there's a CCC Effect, or maybe whereever Sellam learned about it, others learned too. I'm getting about 1-4K/sec, but the first PDF is 8 meg. I can mirror when it's done. If you look up one directory, you'll see he's mirroring Carl Friend's site. - John From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Dec 20 13:44:41 2004 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: olivetti underwood programmer 101 Kansas City Message-ID: I just found and captured this programmable calculator. It still has a roll of paper in the feed. I would like it to go to a good home. It is heavy and big. I have not tried to power it up. Google search turned up the following information. Looks just like http://www.oldcalculatormuseum.com/c-programma101.html Any offers? Mike McFadden From RCini at congressfinancial.com Mon Dec 20 13:39:40 2004 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Apollo Guidance Computer prototype replica Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E501EAEF61@mail10.congressfinancial.com> Ahhh...I thought I recognized the domain name from somewhere. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 2:22 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Apollo Guidance Computer prototype replica At 12:50 PM 12/20/2004, you wrote: >Has anyone cached this yet? The bit rates are so low that it must be hosted >on his machine at home. >Heaven help him if this story gets posted to Slashdot :-) Either there's a CCC Effect, or maybe whereever Sellam learned about it, others learned too. I'm getting about 1-4K/sec, but the first PDF is 8 meg. I can mirror when it's done. If you look up one directory, you'll see he's mirroring Carl Friend's site. - John From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Dec 20 14:05:55 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Our hobby in The New York Times -- sort of In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In message Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > For future reference, here's a handy utility: > > http://www.bugmenot.com It's even more handy when you're using Firefox with the BugMeNot addon. Right click on the password box, then click "BugMeNot", wait a few seconds and hit the Submit button. Register? Me? :) Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... This is your head..THiS iS yoUR HeAD On WindOwS. From brad at heeltoe.com Mon Dec 20 14:33:26 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Our hobby in The New York Times -- sort of In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 20 Dec 2004 20:05:55 GMT." Message-ID: <200412202033.iBKKXQ54025183@mwave.heeltoe.com> Philip Pemberton wrote: >In message > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >> For future reference, here's a handy utility: >> >> http://www.bugmenot.com I'm the last person who will stand on a moral soap box, but if someone asks you your name and you tell them a falsehood, that's um, lying. While I really like the idea it seems a bit "morally challenged". there, I've used up my off topic quota for this week :-) -brad From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Dec 20 14:40:41 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Our hobby in The New York Times -- sort of In-Reply-To: <200412202033.iBKKXQ54025183@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200412202033.iBKKXQ54025183@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <41C738C9.6020102@mdrconsult.com> Brad Parker wrote: > Philip Pemberton wrote: > >>In message >> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >> >> >>>For future reference, here's a handy utility: >>> >>>http://www.bugmenot.com > > > I'm the last person who will stand on a moral soap box, but if someone > asks you your name and you tell them a falsehood, that's um, lying. At the risk of being argumentative, you're the *first* person I've ever known to mount that particular moral soapbox. > there, I've used up my off topic quota for this week :-) And I've exhausted my own troll-response allowance. Doc From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 20 14:41:22 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Our hobby in The New York Times -- sort of In-Reply-To: <200412202033.iBKKXQ54025183@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Brad Parker wrote: > > Philip Pemberton wrote: > >In message > > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > >> For future reference, here's a handy utility: > >> > >> http://www.bugmenot.com > > I'm the last person who will stand on a moral soap box, but if someone > asks you your name and you tell them a falsehood, that's um, lying. > > While I really like the idea it seems a bit "morally challenged". > > there, I've used up my off topic quota for this week :-) I can think of at least one more important issue to be concerned with :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Dec 20 14:45:50 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Our hobby in The New York Times -- sort of In-Reply-To: References: <200412202033.iBKKXQ54025183@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041220144351.0373de10@pc> At 02:41 PM 12/20/2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >I can think of at least one more important issue to be concerned with :) Judging by Slashdot's coverage of Ellsworth and the geek response, at least 90% of this mailing list's bandwidth needs to be consumed debating her "hotness." Sated geek that I am, I'd love to read an in-depth article on the intellection property issues: Did they get permission from the CBM's heirs? Who got the 6510's IP rights? What about the software, was that easy to license? Why do so many of these cheap emulators license lousy titles, as opposed to the extinct top-sellers? - John From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 20 15:08:14 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Abandonware site charges for downloads Message-ID: What do you folks make of this site? http://free-game-downloads.mosw.com/ That have a bunch of software for download. Some of it is Abandonware. Or at least it's claimed to be Abandonware. How do we know it's Abandonware? They have nothing on their site (that I could find) that confirms that these are abandonware, and there are thousands of titles there. They want money if you want to download anything. I can understand them wanting to cover their costs, but this seems pretty sleazy to me. Opinions? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From tomj at wps.com Mon Dec 20 15:15:13 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive In-Reply-To: <1103556679.26744.10.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1103555522.26108.8.camel@fortran> <1103556679.26744.10.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: This is what back copies of DATAMATION and the like are for! > There was a discussion on a local group about the origin of the name > Winchester lately; one school of thought bringing up the often repeated > tale of the Winchester rifle, but another one interestingly mentioning > key technology for the drives that was developed at IBM's R&D outfit > near to Winchester here in the UK (actually at Hursley). > > Neither group seemed to be able to satisfactorily prove or disprove > things one way or the other as to the origins of the name. Most books > within the last 15 years or so probably base the origin on the rifle, > but that may be down to that being the oft-repeated folklore. The link > to Winchester in the UK was an interesting one though. > > cheers > > Jules > From spectre at floodgap.com Mon Dec 20 15:34:34 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Abandonware site charges for downloads In-Reply-To: from Vintage Computer Festival at "Dec 20, 4 01:08:14 pm" Message-ID: <200412202134.NAA16206@floodgap.com> > What do you folks make of this site? > http://free-game-downloads.mosw.com/ > They want money if you want to download anything. I can understand them > wanting to cover their costs, but this seems pretty sleazy to me. I think this also hurts the attempts by people to make unsupported software freely distributable, as it demonstrates there may be money to be made (thus a better motive to lock such things up on the part of the original owner). It also paints other unrelated (and presumably somewhat more honourable, even in the context of warez) warez sites with a similar sleazebrush by sheer perceived association. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- High explosives are applicable where truth and logic fail. ----------------- From spectre at floodgap.com Mon Dec 20 15:36:06 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Our hobby in The New York Times -- sort of In-Reply-To: <200412202033.iBKKXQ54025183@mwave.heeltoe.com> from Brad Parker at "Dec 20, 4 03:33:26 pm" Message-ID: <200412202136.NAA15472@floodgap.com> > > > For future reference, here's a handy utility: > > > http://www.bugmenot.com > > I'm the last person who will stand on a moral soap box, but if someone > asks you your name and you tell them a falsehood, that's um, lying. > While I really like the idea it seems a bit "morally challenged". So use the Cnet link I posted. Piece of cake. ^_^ -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- LDA #TXT:JMP $AB1E:TXT .asc "just another c64 hacker":.byt 0d00 - From wacarder at usit.net Mon Dec 20 15:28:29 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Abandonware site charges for downloads References: Message-ID: <002f01c4e6da$d9fd9470$f71b0f14@wcarder1> > What do you folks make of this site? > > http://free-game-downloads.mosw.com/ > > That have a bunch of software for download. Some of it is Abandonware. > Or at least it's claimed to be Abandonware. How do we know it's > Abandonware? They have nothing on their site (that I could find) that > confirms that these are abandonware, and there are thousands of titles > there. > > They want money if you want to download anything. I can understand them > wanting to cover their costs, but this seems pretty sleazy to me. > > Opinions? Looks mighty questionable to me too. I bet if someone did some research, it would show that some number of these things are still owned by someone else and are not abandonware. Ashley From RCini at congressfinancial.com Mon Dec 20 15:15:24 2004 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Our hobby in The New York Times -- sort of Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E501EAEF66@mail10.congressfinancial.com> The intellectual property issues would be key for me, too and could have been dealt with in a few sentences. As far as the crappy-versus-good title licenses, I would offer up that the final choice of games comes down to (1) which IP owner you could locate and (2) successfully negotiate with. There's the firm...Tulip I think...that from what I've read seems to be ready to come down hard on anyone using abandoned Commodore properties for commercial gain. It's been a long road of failed owners, but I believe Tulip owns the Commodore trademarks and IP. I can't say for sure if they own the designs for the 6510 but I would assume that they bought a "package" of IP from Gateway, who bought it from Ascom AG, who bought it from the Commodore bankruptcy estate for $5mm (IIRC). There might be another name in there after Ascom, but I can't be sure. I think that Tulip uses the Commodore name for things other than computers but owns all of the goodies that's of particular interest to this group. Rich -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 3:46 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Our hobby in The New York Times -- sort of At 02:41 PM 12/20/2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >I can think of at least one more important issue to be concerned with :) Judging by Slashdot's coverage of Ellsworth and the geek response, at least 90% of this mailing list's bandwidth needs to be consumed debating her "hotness." Sated geek that I am, I'd love to read an in-depth article on the intellection property issues: Did they get permission from the CBM's heirs? Who got the 6510's IP rights? What about the software, was that easy to license? Why do so many of these cheap emulators license lousy titles, as opposed to the extinct top-sellers? - John From RCini at congressfinancial.com Mon Dec 20 15:27:43 2004 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Resurgence of the C64/Tulip/Jeri Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E501EAEF67@mail10.congressfinancial.com> Here are a few Web links that talks about Tulip and the C64. Some are bit old, but worth a read: http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,111556,00.asp Article from 2003 that gives an overall look at the relationship. http://www.tulip.com/news/article.asp?nid=109 This one raises as many questions as it answers. It only speaks to enforcement for the unauthorized use of the Commodore name. http://www.tulip.com/aboutus/corp_article.asp?nid=145 This is an interesting link, too. Although it's in Dutch, the product looks remarkably similar to the one Jeri is holding in her hand. Interestingly, in a note on Ruud Baltassen's site indicates that Tulip doesn't mind people using the Commodore name in a non-commercial setting, I guess acknowledging that in the time between when it purchased "the name and other assets in 1997" and 2003 when they talk about developing game products for the PC (like the Atari Anthology program, I'm guessing -- old games running on a new machine using an emulator), a lot has happened. The problem is that no one ever says what "other assets" is. Rich From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Dec 20 15:38:06 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Our hobby in The New York Times -- sort of In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041220144351.0373de10@pc> References: <200412202033.iBKKXQ54025183@mwave.heeltoe.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041220144351.0373de10@pc> Message-ID: <41C7463E.6020501@mdrconsult.com> John Foust wrote: > At 02:41 PM 12/20/2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >>I can think of at least one more important issue to be concerned with :) > > > Judging by Slashdot's coverage of Ellsworth and the geek response, > at least 90% of this mailing list's bandwidth needs to be consumed > debating her "hotness." Given the gender balance on the CC lists, that point is entirely moot. Plus, as cute as she is, she's got a lot of qualities that are more rare and more interesting than her looks, too. Doc From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Dec 20 15:40:57 2004 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive Message-ID: Not trying to start any flames but I didn't think they had any 30/30 rifles in UK. I thought that's why the Bobbies carried batons and a whistle. Sellam says > >Maybe it was both: the 30/30 evoked the name of the rifle, which also >happened to be the name of a nearby locale, and the naming was obvious >thenceforth. Mike From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Dec 20 15:52:50 2004 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive( Winchester) Message-ID: Actually in 1975 or 1976 one of my fellow graduate students, moving to Beaverton Oregon to work for Tektronix, was trying to move some early disk drives and was asked by the movers what they were. Home furnishings were readily moveable but not office stuff. So he put them in washer and dryer boxes and the movers were happy to move them. They had been used as end tables in his living room up until them. He also built the first Altair I ever saw. Andy said > >My experience of early hard disks was with the ICT EDS-4 which stored 4M 6-bit characters (ie about 3 MB) - the >(exchangeable) disk pack was close to the size of a complete PC ... the drives were referred to as "washing machines" >because of their size and appearance. (and the controller was about the same size also). The IBM equivalent was, I >think, the 1311 ... the 2311 being equivalent to the ICT EDS-8 (which had twice as many tracks as the eds4 but was >otherwise identical) Mike From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 20 15:56:57 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Abandonware site charges for downloads In-Reply-To: <002f01c4e6da$d9fd9470$f71b0f14@wcarder1> References: <002f01c4e6da$d9fd9470$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Message-ID: <34790.64.139.41.130.1103579817.squirrel@64.139.41.130> > I bet if someone did some research, > it would show that some number of these things are still owned by someone > else and are not abandonware Everything is still owned by someone, unless it has been explicitly placed into the public domain by its last owner. AFAIK, the concept of "abandonware" doesn't have any legal basis whatsoever. It may well be the case that the ownership of old software can't be determined, because the records were lost as ownership changed hands many times between then and now. The current owners may not even know that they own it. This is a fundamental problem with US copyright law. With tangible property, when a dispute arises the property owner has to prove ownership (via a title document). With copyrights, if Joe claims that Bob does not own a work, it is up to Joe to prove that claim, and the legal presumption is that Bob *does* own it. For "abandonware", anyone could come forward and claim to own it, and it would be difficult or impossible for such claims to be disproven. (Perhaps someone may see this as an opportunity?) From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 20 16:01:49 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Our hobby in The New York Times -- sort of In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E501EAEF66@mail10.congressfinancial.com > References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E501EAEF66@mail10.congressfinancial.com> Message-ID: <35397.64.139.41.130.1103580109.squirrel@64.139.41.130> > Tulip owns the Commodore trademarks and IP. I can't say for sure if they > own the designs for the 6510 It doesn't really matter, as no one building a product today would use any portion of the original 6510 design that is subject to intellectual property protection. The DTV 64-in-a-joystick, for instance, uses a new 6510-compatible HDL implementation. AFAIK, the only part of the original 6510 design that would be subject to intellectual property protection now would be the actual mask designs, which might (or might not) be copyrighted. No one in their right mind would try to make new 3 micron NMOS processors today, and the mask designs are not relevant to new redesigns. From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Dec 20 16:13:55 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Apollo Guidance Computer prototype replica In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041220130855.05225b78@pc> Message-ID: > Either there's a CCC Effect, or maybe whereever Sellam learned > about it, others learned too. I'm getting about 1-4K/sec, but > the first PDF is 8 meg. I can mirror when it's done. OSFN seems to be taking a bit of a beating - I am noticing a lot of sluggishness. starfish.osfn.org is hosted at RCS, by the way. Ask Mike U or Carl before you mirror, please. I don't know much about this, so there might be issues I don't know about. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Dec 20 16:15:37 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive In-Reply-To: <1103556679.26744.10.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: > Neither group seemed to be able to satisfactorily prove or disprove > things one way or the other as to the origins of the name. The "more or less" official history book (the MIT press ones) have it as the rifle story. My copy isn't handy right now. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Dec 20 16:20:14 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive In-Reply-To: <1103555522.26108.8.camel@fortran> Message-ID: > Yeah, but the engineering nickname for the first voice-coil drive was > 30/30 because there were two platters, 30MB each. someone called it the > Winchester, and the name stuck - however, the first IBM Winchester might > have been the 3340. It was more than just the nickname - it was the project name. 3340 was Winchester, as 3330 was Merlin. I would like to get some junk 3348 datapacks for the 3340. Crashed is OK - I need one to rebuild and check the load mechanism in a 3340. I could also use 3330 docs, too. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon Dec 20 16:12:24 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Abandonware site charges for downloads In-Reply-To: <34790.64.139.41.130.1103579817.squirrel@64.139.41.130> References: <002f01c4e6da$d9fd9470$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <34790.64.139.41.130.1103579817.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Message-ID: <200412202221.RAA06341@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Everything is still owned by someone, unless it has been explicitly > placed into the public domain by its last owner. (Or unless sufficient time has passed - last I looked, it was something like fifty years after the author's death. Obviously that is not relevant to "abandonware", most/all of which is not yet 50 years old.) > AFAIK, the concept of "abandonware" doesn't have any legal basis > whatsoever. [under US copyright law] When a company dissolves, what happens to its property? Is that something that must be specified as part of the dissolution process? > This is a fundamental problem with US copyright law. Well, there are more fundamental problems, I believe, but this is not really the place to discuss them. > With tangible property, when a dispute arises the property owner has > to prove ownership (via a title document). I daresay most physical property does not have title documents. If you buy a pair of gloves, what is the "title document"? (The sales slip? How is it tied to your particular pair of gloves?) I suspect that your statement really applies only to things ownership of which is registered with governments, such as land or motor vehicles, not relatively minor property such as loaves of bread and screwdrivers. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From gordon at gjcp.net Mon Dec 20 16:24:36 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41C75124.1080306@gjcp.net> McFadden, Mike wrote: > Not trying to start any flames but I didn't think they had any 30/30 > rifles in UK. I thought that's why the Bobbies carried batons and a > whistle. Erm, if they exist, someone will have one. Are you propagating the erroneous USian idea that you're not allowed guns in the UK? Nearly everyone I know owns some sort of firearm, mainly shotguns. It's actually easier to get a shotgun licence over here than it is to get a motorcycle licence. Gordon. From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Dec 20 16:21:27 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Apollo Guidance Computer prototype replica In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041220130855.05225b78@pc> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041220162009.04da6098@pc> At 04:13 PM 12/20/2004, you wrote: >> Either there's a CCC Effect, or maybe whereever Sellam learned >> about it, others learned too. I'm getting about 1-4K/sec, but >> the first PDF is 8 meg. I can mirror when it's done. > >OSFN seems to be taking a bit of a beating - I am noticing a lot of >sluggishness. starfish.osfn.org is hosted at RCS, by the way. Ask Mike U >or Carl before you mirror, please. I don't know much about this, so there >might be issues I don't know about. OK, I won't officially mirror, but I can help with bandwidth for the next few days. It's 37 meg at http://www.gojefferson.com/AGC.zip if anyone wants it more quickly. - John From deano at rattie.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 20 16:25:44 2004 From: deano at rattie.demon.co.uk (Deano Calver) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:28 2005 Subject: Abandonware site charges for downloads In-Reply-To: <002f01c4e6da$d9fd9470$f71b0f14@wcarder1> References: <002f01c4e6da$d9fd9470$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Message-ID: <41C75168.5040608@rattie.demon.co.uk> Ashley Carder wrote: >Looks mighty questionable to me too. I bet if someone did some research, >it would show that some number of these things are still owned by someone >else and are not abandonware. > > A 5 second examination of that site, shows products and IP with clear ownership rights. If you go to PC RPG you will find a range of Origin RPGs (Ultima etc) now owned by a small entertainment company called Electronic Arts. Deano -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.0 - Release Date: 17/12/2004 From tomj at wps.com Mon Dec 20 16:26:40 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: my old FIDO CP/M-80 machine running Message-ID: Deciphered the missing keyboard cable and the far, far too complicated keyboard interface (I practically rewired a Cromemco PRI board to be an interface for this lovely Microswitch parallel keyboard -- very hardware-head), soaked & washed the mouse poop off the floppy cable, repaired the section of conductor #50 nibbled by said rodentia, picked a system floppy at random (DSSD), typed "b" at the prompt... READ ERROR. Pulled a SSSD system disk, booted fine! Some fiddling, I can't read any sectors of side 2. That I will figure out. It does figure out sidedness. Found I have bunches of blank NOS DSDD floppies, not one SSSD blank! So no formatting etc. So I ran all the progs on the system disk (wordstar, sid, pmate, stat, etc) OK. Since I've got a bunch of SSSD system disks, I stuck another in the B drive (a sssd drive, since mice ruined the orig. drive), and ran MBASIC 5.03 off it. Man, the B drive spindle bearing is trashed; it's conversation-level loud. The G and right-shift keys on the keyboard don't work, and the RETURN key sends a garbage character then CR (but Control-M works so I can do stuff). I need to fix the "G" key, figure out the serial port stuff, then I can export the SSSD diskette contents. Once I fix the DS thing I'll do the other non 3740 format diskettes. I don't know yet what order I'll do things in though I will probably get one of the serial ports working to make sure. Luckily I have ZAPLOAD (bin to hex) and telink (telecomm) progs on the system disk. From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Dec 20 16:29:54 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Abandonware site charges for downloads References: <002f01c4e6da$d9fd9470$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <34790.64.139.41.130.1103579817.squirrel@64.139.41.130> <200412202221.RAA06341@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <16839.21090.25749.524302@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "der" == der Mouse writes: >> AFAIK, the concept of "abandonware" doesn't have any legal basis >> whatsoever. [under US copyright law] der> When a company dissolves, what happens to its property? Is that der> something that must be specified as part of the dissolution der> process? Yes. It might be transferred to a creditor, or to some person who wins the auction for it. For example, the IP for an invention I created for a previous (now defunct) company is currently owned by one of the "angels" who originally put up the money for that company. paul From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Dec 20 16:30:32 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Abandonware site charges for downloads In-Reply-To: <200412202221.RAA06341@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: > When a company dissolves, what happens to its property? Is that > something that must be specified as part of the dissolution process? Most companies never really completely dissolve. Their assets, even if just a name and a stapler, are owned by someone. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From allain at panix.com Mon Dec 20 16:37:05 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Abandonware site charges for downloads References: Message-ID: <0ab101c4e6e4$71438980$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Opinions? Looks like an attempt to draw skeptical attention away from CommodoreOne(?) right now. Seems to me if this project has gone so mainstream (NYTimes,QVC), that there would have been a Lawyer's checkout of propriety by now. Otherwise we might stop seeing Jeri all of a sudden. There is also the mystery of why the Dutch case design matches the USA/China one. I'm thinking of the ROM software writers mainly, but the hardware listmembers would know more about how the logic would divide up as to attribution. Even if it isn't legally perfect it might still make it. A worker next to my office at GE from Taiwan produced back overseas a rip-off of the "Lectron" system called "Blok-Tronic". Don't believe he had any agreements from Raytheon to make it. It was actually sold in the Smithsonian, the USA National museum. John A. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 20 16:38:28 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Abandonware site charges for downloads In-Reply-To: <200412202221.RAA06341@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <002f01c4e6da$d9fd9470$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <34790.64.139.41.130.1103579817.squirrel@64.139.41.130> <200412202221.RAA06341@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <40205.64.139.41.130.1103582308.squirrel@64.139.41.130> I wrote: > Everything is still owned by someone, unless it has been explicitly > placed into the public domain by its last owner. der Mouse wrote: > (Or unless sufficient time has passed - last I looked, it was something > like fifty years after the author's death. Obviously that is not > relevant to "abandonware", most/all of which is not yet 50 years old.) In the US, it's currently 95 years after publication or 70 years after the death of the author. However, the US Congress on average each year increases the term of copyright by more than one year. In the Eldred case, the plaintiff attempted to get the latest copyright term extension overturned on the basis that the powers of Congress section of the US Constitution only provides for "securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries"; if Congress keeps increasing the term (including granting the extension to preexisting works), the duration is effectively unlimited. The Supreme Court rejected this reasoning. :-( > When a company dissolves, what happens to its property? Is that > something that must be specified as part of the dissolution process? Yes. It always winds up being owned by someone. However, the new owner may not even *know* about all the things that they own. It's easy to imagine software (especially older software) going without notice. From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Dec 20 16:40:47 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Apollo Guidance Computer prototype replica In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E501EAEF60@mail10.congressfinancial.com> Message-ID: > Heaven help him if this story gets posted to Slashdot :-) Please do not do this - OSFN's bandwidth is not that great. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ljw-cctech at ljw.me.uk Mon Dec 20 17:05:09 2004 From: ljw-cctech at ljw.me.uk (Lawrence Wilkinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Differential Analysers and Scientific American In-Reply-To: <020101c4e3f6$18e901c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <020101c4e3f6$18e901c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <1103583909.29261.5.camel@ljw.me.uk> I actually found it was June 1968 (sorry, earlier than I thought) and from that managed to find this copy of the article if anyone is interested: http://www.1010.co.uk/artificial/archive.html It's not a great copy, but it does for my purposes. Thanks everyone. LJW On Fri, 2004-12-17 at 05:05, John Allain wrote: > > I was wondering whether anyone here with '70s > > issues of SciAm might be able to make a copy, > > Likely I have the issue stored. > I'd have to leave it to you right > now to find out which issue it would be. > With that info I could make you a copy. > > John A. > hope this can help you > > > > Bill the cat: "ACK TBFfffttt!" -- Lawrence Wilkinson lawrence@ljw.me.uk Ph +44(0)1869-811059 http://www.ljw.me.uk From brain at jbrain.com Mon Dec 20 17:23:22 2004 From: brain at jbrain.com (Jim Brain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Our hobby in The New York Times -- sort of In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041220144351.0373de10@pc> References: <200412202033.iBKKXQ54025183@mwave.heeltoe.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041220144351.0373de10@pc> Message-ID: <34096.162.123.17.83.1103585002.squirrel@dilbert.jimbrain.com> > Sated geek that I am, I'd love to read an in-depth article on the > intellection property issues: Did they get permission from the > CBM's heirs? Who got the 6510's IP rights? What about the software, > was that easy to license? Why do so many of these cheap emulators > license lousy titles, as opposed to the extinct top-sellers? Since the principals aren't subscribed, I'll do my best. Ys, they did, although the connection is rather circuituous (sp?). Early in the year, Tulip held a big news conference and went over their vision for the Commodore brand. At the time, they showed off me-too MP3 players and USB drives with names like mPET and eVIC. They also introduced the head of Ironstone Partners, and Tulip and Ironstone jointly described the new web site that would allow the purchase of a C64 emulator and games and the C64 Direct To TV (C64DTV). Jeri's talk at the recent World of Commodore EXPO in Toronto paints a slightly different picture. She said Ironstone had contacted her in late 2003, but couldn't seem to commit money to the project. In the Spring, though, DC Studios called, with contract and money in hand. My theory is that Ironstone punted to DC Studios. in any case, Jeri started on the unit, and DC went looking for a implementor and a buyer. QVC stepped up with the requiremements, and Mammoth stepped up to build. The software was not easy to license, and the timing was too tight. QVC set the number of games (30), and Adrian Gonzales and Robin Harbron, helped at times by Mark Seelye with some last minute pieces by Per Olafsson (sp? ) worked right up to the last minute to deliver 30 games for the unit. Mark and Robin removed trainers and crack intros from games cracks for for the unit, rewriting portions to deal with some small compatibility issues and lack of some of the illegal NMOS 6502 opcodes. As well, two-player modes and keyboard requirements had to be removed. Adrian worked on the ROM file system, which replaced the tape load routines. Per helped on a pro-bono basis, and added the joystick keyboard driver you can access on the unit, as well as some easter eggs. At the time we (myself and others) came to the September 2004 SWRAP EXPO in Chicago, the team had to deliver the ROMset to the fab the next Monday. To get 30 games, Adrian had been forced to split the Epyx "Games" series into individual events. That following week, though, someone (not sure if it was Mammoth, DC, or QVC) had a fit about that, so the team was given another week to stuff more games in the unit. Though, for every games added, one had to be removed so the final number was 30 (not counting the hidden games). By the time of the SWRAP show, the final VHDL set had gone to fab for the ASIC. Jeri and I chatted on IRC one Saturday (possibly late October) where she stated she had held the box with 250K ASICs (unbonded) in a box earlier that afternoon. Another week, she was in China to help with layout and board issues. It seems she laid out a fine PCB, but the contract manufacturer kept trying to cost reduce the unit, wreaking havoc. Jeri had to keep undoing things they did to the PCB to put it back in working order. A couple interesting items about the unit: Folks should now know that Jeri's been working on the C-1 reconfigurable computer (formerly known as the Commodore 1). As the first core was the C64 core (which is what formed the basis of the C64DTV unit), the legality of her reverse engineering the custom CSG ICs was a gray area. In the contract for the C64DTV development, Jeri inked in language that solidifies her right to develop the C64 core for the C-1. So, in essence, she got paid for the work, and she was able to remove any legal issues along the way. As a further note, Jeri was paid for the work upon completion, no royalties, but I think the article also states that. If you do hack the unit, you'll be presented with a complete C64 core that is 99.X% vintage. As well, you'll find a small bit on $d03f, in the VIC address range, that, if enabled, turns on a chunk of new functionality. 256 colors, a linear bitmap mode, virtual screen larger than physical screen mode, and a DMA engine (ala the CBM 17XX REUs). In the "keep it under your hat, you didn't hear it from me" Dept: The IEC and KB pads were smuggled onto the unit. The initial PCB layout brought all the lines out to pads. Under the epoxy, the actual ASIC has all the C64 port lines and pins available, but the contract manufacturer kept cost reducing the board and re-laying it to accomodate the cheap manual labor that was to build it. Initially, they removed the lines altogether, but then Jeri noted they needed to be pulled high by resistors. After much grumbling, the manufacturer added the requisite resistors into the design, which force the pins to be bonded and brought beyond the epoxy, thus making them available for the hobbyist. As for the pulling high.... The ASIC pulls those lines high internally. So, in the end, the manufacturer paid a bit more in trying to cost reduce the unit. Her defense is that those lines are needed in order to completely test the unit, which is true. Last weekend, Jeri was in Thunder Bay (Robin's locale) trying to get the PAL version (the current ASIC is NTSC only) ready for the European market. I hear more surprises are in store for the PAL unit, so those of us who bought early, will need to buy again. And, contrary to the reader's current opinion, I am not Jeri's #1 fanboy. Though, I have been blessed to be in the mostly "in-crowd" concerning the development, before it became public knowledge. I do find it nice that an enthusiast has been able to turn their hobby into some PR and some good paying work to boot. The platform has gotten some PR. About the only issue is that the DTV has fundementally raised the bar for such throwaway joystick units. Already, the Atari crowd is miffed that the Flashback and previous units are really NES-on-a-chip or similar with re-written games, while the DTV is the real (NMOS going to CMOS notwithstanding) item. As well, it has definite hacking potential, and can be used far beyond the games it contains in ROM. The only concern from the development team is that Tulip and the rest will wise up and remove the hacking potential from the PAL unit, which would be a terrible shame. Jim -- Jim Brain brain@jbrain.com From acme at gbronline.com Mon Dec 20 17:24:24 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Oldest computer on the internet? References: <009601c4e466$f6b6aaa0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <41C32964.1050906@wavecable.com> Message-ID: <00b001c4e6eb$0c301fc0$a34f0945@acme> ----- Original Message ----- From: Scarletdown To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 1:45 PM Subject: Re: Oldest computer on the internet? > And if I ever get around to playing with SLIP and PLIP, I plan on > eventually hooking up old systems (such as my TI-99/4a and KayPro II) to > a Linux box so that they can access the Internet via a shell account. Why the Linux box? Can't you just dial in directly to a shell account with the Kaypro and/or TI-99/4a? I have a couple of ZX-81 compatible 300 baud modems, and once for a lark I dialed in and read my email with a TS/1000. Glen 0/0 From williams.dan at gmail.com Mon Dec 20 18:06:07 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Liberator 220. Message-ID: <26c11a640412201606767462a7@mail.gmail.com> I now have 7 of these liberator 220's. I don't have the cables yet to test them, or even know if the cables I have coming will work. Looking inside the cases they have 2 full height drives in there. They are standard 50 pin scsi drives. The two drives connect to what has to be a scsi-->dssi board. This is making me think that could change these drives for something bigger. But if anyone knows more about these I would love to know. I was wondering if the two drives inside are mirrored or in an array. The arey in a rack all daisy-chained together, unless someone has messed about with it, I thought dssi was max 7 devices. They also have a programmable front panel, with no instructions and just three buttons. Does anyone know how this works. Also does anyone know how the speed of these compare to standad dssi drives. This is going to go great on the 4000/705a. It would be nice if I could swap a couple of the drives for 18gb. Apologies if you read them, I have asked the same questions on both vms and dec newsgroups. Thanks Dan From thedm at sunflower.com Mon Dec 20 18:26:54 2004 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Problems reading older disk on newer drive References: Message-ID: <002101c4e6f3$c63e7580$6401a8c0@barton> Well, Sam and I got it figured out and taken care of. Neither one of us is really sure what happend, but it seems i did owe him ten dollars, how he got missed I'm not sure, and paid him with interest, we might even become friends. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 1:16 PM Subject: Re: Problems reading older disk on newer drive > On Sun, 19 Dec 2004, Bill Girnius wrote: > >> Is it possible it's an 8 sector disk before dos 2.25? > > No, and you still owe me $10. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From gsutton9503 at wavecable.com Mon Dec 20 18:39:38 2004 From: gsutton9503 at wavecable.com (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Oldest computer on the internet? In-Reply-To: <00b001c4e6eb$0c301fc0$a34f0945@acme> References: <009601c4e466$f6b6aaa0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <41C32964.1050906@wavecable.com> <00b001c4e6eb$0c301fc0$a34f0945@acme> Message-ID: <41C770CA.6010704@wavecable.com> Glen Goodwin wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: Scarletdown >To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 1:45 PM >Subject: Re: Oldest computer on the internet? > > > > >>And if I ever get around to playing with SLIP and PLIP, I plan on >>eventually hooking up old systems (such as my TI-99/4a and KayPro II) to >>a Linux box so that they can access the Internet via a shell account. >> >> > >Why the Linux box? Can't you just dial in directly to a shell account with >the >Kaypro and/or TI-99/4a? > > I don't think there are any local ISPs around here that offer shell accounts anymore. And even if there was, I would really have no desire to go back to dialup. From peters04 at techwiz.ca Mon Dec 20 19:10:22 2004 From: peters04 at techwiz.ca (Peter Sjoberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Apollo Guidance Computer prototype replica In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E501EAEF60@mail10.congressfinancial.com> References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E501EAEF60@mail10.congressfinancial.com> Message-ID: <1103591422.7079.55.camel@picard.intra.techwiz.ca> On Mon, 2004-12-20 at 13:50 -0500, Cini, Richard wrote: > Has anyone cached this yet? The bit rates are so low that it must be hosted > on his machine at home. > > Heaven help him if this story gets posted to Slashdot :-) Apollo On Board Computer Emulator http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/08/27/228246 > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer > Festival > Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 1:41 PM > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > Subject: Apollo Guidance Computer prototype replica > > > > This is going to blow your mind. This guy built a replica of the Apollo > Guidance Computer prototype circa 1964 using 1960s era components. > > http://starfish.osfn.org/AGCreplica/ > > Do I sense here a Best of Show award at the next VCF? :) From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 20 19:49:16 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: OT: Html clue? Message-ID: <8620238F-52F2-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Ok, I have looked around in the documents for Angelfire, at other sites and I am still having problems getting this.. RockScissorPaper trys to download RockScissorsPaper.HTML when I click it (the html I actually get is angelfire's 404 page) phhht. What is the "right" way to make a file available on my web page? From brain at jbrain.com Mon Dec 20 20:01:15 2004 From: brain at jbrain.com (Jim Brain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Our hobby in The New York Times -- sort of In-Reply-To: <20041220075605.74504.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041220075605.74504.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41C783EB.5000304@jbrain.com> Computer Collector Newsletter wrote: >Hi everyone, > >This is VERY cool: Jeri Ellsworth and her C64 30-in-1 joystick are featured in >The New York Times. As I write this email (2:54AM, Monday), it's on the actual >nytimes.com homepage, with a color photo of her. The article itself is at >(http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/20/technology/20joystick.html?8dpc). > >There is a product review of the 30-in-1, head-to-head against the new Atari >Flashback, at my own site (http://news.computercollector.com) -- click the >'reviews' link. > > > I can't remember if someone else remarked this to you on this list, but you can hold the fire button down to bypass all the intros. Concerning the joystick, it appears there are two variants. Mine, for instance, does not suffer from the diagonal issue, but others do. It appears to be related to the little rubber "pads" used to implement the joystick directions. My good unit has softer yellow pads, while the bad units appears to all have the same gray pads used on the fire buttons. Notwithstanding, I think the C64DTV stick is underwhelming, even on my good units. It can be inferred that Jeri's exceptional core has been married to a underengineered package. Jim -- Jim Brain, Brain Innovations brain@jbrain.com http://www.jbrain.com Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, Old CBM computers, and Good Times! From williams.dan at gmail.com Mon Dec 20 20:12:35 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Oldest computer on the internet? In-Reply-To: <41C32964.1050906@wavecable.com> References: <009601c4e466$f6b6aaa0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <41C32964.1050906@wavecable.com> Message-ID: <26c11a640412201812182971a@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 10:45:56 -0800, Scarletdown wrote: > Ashley Carder wrote: > > >Does anyone know what the oldest documented functional computer is that is connected to the internet? > > > > > > I know this was a few years ago, so I don't know what its status is > today. But I remember on comp.sys.tamdy, someone posted an announcement > that he had a TRS-80 of some sort (most likely a Model III) set up as a > telnettable BBS. > > And if I ever get around to playing with SLIP and PLIP, I plan on > eventually hooking up old systems (such as my TI-99/4a and KayPro II) to > a Linux box so that they can access the Internet via a shell account. > > -- > Scarletdown > > Check this out, it works quite well. I managed to get an old BBS on my cpc working over the we for a while, but now I don't have the room. It will do other things as well if you play with it. http://www.telbbs.com/ Dan From williams.dan at gmail.com Mon Dec 20 20:12:47 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Oldest computer on the internet? In-Reply-To: <41C770CA.6010704@wavecable.com> References: <009601c4e466$f6b6aaa0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <41C32964.1050906@wavecable.com> <00b001c4e6eb$0c301fc0$a34f0945@acme> <41C770CA.6010704@wavecable.com> Message-ID: <26c11a6404122018123ca2922@mail.gmail.com> > > > >>And if I ever get around to playing with SLIP and PLIP, I plan on > >>eventually hooking up old systems (such as my TI-99/4a and KayPro II) to > >>a Linux box so that they can access the Internet via a shell account. > >> > >> > > > >Why the Linux box? Can't you just dial in directly to a shell account with > >the > >Kaypro and/or TI-99/4a? > > > > > > I don't think there are any local ISPs around here that offer shell > accounts anymore. And even if there was, I would really have no desire > to go back to dialup. > From news at computercollector.com Mon Dec 20 20:12:48 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Our hobby in The New York Times -- sort of In-Reply-To: <41C783EB.5000304@jbrain.com> Message-ID: <20041221021248.55819.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> >>>> but you can hold the fire button down to bypass all the intros. Yes, a couple of people pointed this out already. It is corrected on my web site. However, since both of the reviewers (myself and Bill L. from Armchair Arcade) missed it, it does reinforce our critique of the manual's ridiculously tiny font size. Regardless, those two issues cancel each other out, so the C64 remains our winner over the Atari Flashback. >>>> It can be inferred that Jeri's exceptional core has been married to a underengineered package. We agree very strongly with that statement, and that is exactly what we wrote in the product review. --- Jim Brain wrote: > Computer Collector Newsletter wrote: > > >Hi everyone, > > > >This is VERY cool: Jeri Ellsworth and her C64 30-in-1 joystick are featured > in > >The New York Times. As I write this email (2:54AM, Monday), it's on the > actual > >nytimes.com homepage, with a color photo of her. The article itself is at > >(http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/20/technology/20joystick.html?8dpc). > > > >There is a product review of the 30-in-1, head-to-head against the new Atari > >Flashback, at my own site (http://news.computercollector.com) -- click the > >'reviews' link. > > > > > > > I can't remember if someone else remarked this to you on this list, but > you can hold the fire button down to bypass all the intros. > > Concerning the joystick, it appears there are two variants. Mine, for > instance, does not suffer from the diagonal issue, but others do. It > appears to be related to the little rubber "pads" used to implement the > joystick directions. My good unit has softer yellow pads, while the bad > units appears to all have the same gray pads used on the fire buttons. > Notwithstanding, I think the C64DTV stick is underwhelming, even on my > good units. It can be inferred that Jeri's exceptional core has been > married to a underengineered package. > > Jim > > > > -- > Jim Brain, Brain Innovations > brain@jbrain.com http://www.jbrain.com > Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, Old CBM computers, and Good Times! > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 620 readers and counting! From vax9000 at gmail.com Mon Dec 20 20:18:56 2004 From: vax9000 at gmail.com (9000 VAX) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: OT: Html clue? In-Reply-To: <8620238F-52F2-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> References: <8620238F-52F2-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 17:49:16 -0800, Ron Hudson wrote: > > Ok, I have looked around in the documents for Angelfire, at other sites > and I am still having problems getting this.. > > RockScissorPaper > RockScissorPaper.dmg or RockScissorsPaper.HTML? vax, 9000 > trys to download RockScissorsPaper.HTML when I click it (the html I > actually get > is angelfire's 404 page) > > phhht. > > What is the "right" way to make a file available on my web page? > > From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 20 21:21:16 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Our hobby in The New York Times -- sort of In-Reply-To: <41C7463E.6020501@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Doc Shipley wrote: > John Foust wrote: > > At 02:41 PM 12/20/2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > >>I can think of at least one more important issue to be concerned with :) > > > > > > Judging by Slashdot's coverage of Ellsworth and the geek response, > > at least 90% of this mailing list's bandwidth needs to be consumed > > debating her "hotness." > > Given the gender balance on the CC lists, that point is entirely moot. > > Plus, as cute as she is, she's got a lot of qualities that are more > rare and more interesting than her looks, too. I can attest to the fact that Jeri is not only a brilliant engineer and designer but she also has a fantastic personality and is an overall great person. Her beauty is just an additional grace. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 20 21:24:06 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Abandonware site charges for downloads In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > What do you folks make of this site? > > http://free-game-downloads.mosw.com/ I've since come to find that this site is hosted in the Czech republic, which may explain the more free-wheeling aspect of it. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 20 21:25:00 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > This is what back copies of DATAMATION and the like are for! I finally found a stash of Datamation (I currently only have two issues total). The bad news is that many are water-damaged :( Datamation has been the hardest magazine for me to find. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rcini at optonline.net Mon Dec 20 21:30:51 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Apollo Guidance Computer prototype replica In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c4e70d$7932cce0$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> William: Just to add to my original reply to you, looking at the domain name, it looked familiar but I couldn't place it. Rich -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of William Donzelli Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 5:41 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: Apollo Guidance Computer prototype replica > Heaven help him if this story gets posted to Slashdot :-) Please do not do this - OSFN's bandwidth is not that great. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From rcini at optonline.net Mon Dec 20 21:36:54 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Our hobby in The New York Times -- sort of In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E501EAEF66@mail10.congressfinancial.com> Message-ID: <000601c4e70e$51844d80$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> When I re-read this when I got home, I discovered that I must be suffering from more bit rot than normal. The German company was Escom AG, not Ascom. The story goes something like this: Escom wanted only the name Commodore and IP related to the name (marketing materials, logo, etc.) but the creditors of the Commodore bankruptcy estate balked -- it was all or nothing. So, Escom bought the hard IP assets (apparently) and the name. When Escom went through receivership in 1995, the Commodore name was purchased by the Escom NL division which was then renamed Commodore NL. That I guess failed, too, so the names must have been purchased by Tulip. That works with the timing. However, it seems, from what I've read, is that when Escom tanked the "real" assets went into a new company, Amiga {something} which was purchased by Gateway. This is where things get fuzzy. I don't remember seeing press about Gateway selling Amiga to Tulip. A quick Googling produces this story from The Register (among others): http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/12/31/gateway_sells_amiga_to_examiga/ (12/31/1999) Partial quote: "Gateway has finally rid itself of the legacy of its acquisition of Amiga with a close-of-year sale of the Amiga hardware spec., system software and brandname to Amino on undisclosed terms. And who do we find runs Amino? Step forward, Bill McEwen, the former Amiga, Inc. marketing chief..." Now, that still doesn't really tell us all we want to know but it provides a path. The sale documents from Commodore to Escom is public by virtue of the bankruptcy process. The trail goes cold a bit in Germany, but we know that the assets we want went to Gateway. Gateway 2000 is (and was in 1999) a public company. The year-end report (form 10-K) from 1999 lists Amiga International, Inc., Amiga, Inc. and Amiga Development, LLC as a subsidiaries. The 2000 10-K no longer lists them. There is no other meaningful reference to Amiga in the 1999 report. This means that the sale was not "significant" as defined by the SEC. So, there's no way for us to publicly access the sale documents to see what was sold to "new Amiga". I would have to guess that they hold the hardware assets, though. Not that I'd want to reproduce a 6510 using 25-year-old MOS-II technology but at least we don't have to be as fearful of Tulip as we might have been at the beginning of the thread. They're more interested in pasting the Commodore name on goods than the 6510. Rich -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Cini, Richard Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 4:15 PM To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: RE: Our hobby in The New York Times -- sort of The intellectual property issues would be key for me, too and could have been dealt with in a few sentences. As far as the crappy-versus-good title licenses, I would offer up that the final choice of games comes down to (1) which IP owner you could locate and (2) successfully negotiate with. There's the firm...Tulip I think...that from what I've read seems to be ready to come down hard on anyone using abandoned Commodore properties for commercial gain. It's been a long road of failed owners, but I believe Tulip owns the Commodore trademarks and IP. I can't say for sure if they own the designs for the 6510 but I would assume that they bought a "package" of IP from Gateway, who bought it from Ascom AG, who bought it from the Commodore bankruptcy estate for $5mm (IIRC). There might be another name in there after Ascom, but I can't be sure. I think that Tulip uses the Commodore name for things other than computers but owns all of the goodies that's of particular interest to this group. Rich -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 3:46 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Our hobby in The New York Times -- sort of At 02:41 PM 12/20/2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >I can think of at least one more important issue to be concerned with :) Judging by Slashdot's coverage of Ellsworth and the geek response, at least 90% of this mailing list's bandwidth needs to be consumed debating her "hotness." Sated geek that I am, I'd love to read an in-depth article on the intellection property issues: Did they get permission from the CBM's heirs? Who got the 6510's IP rights? What about the software, was that easy to license? Why do so many of these cheap emulators license lousy titles, as opposed to the extinct top-sellers? - John From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 20 21:41:51 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Our hobby in The New York Times -- sort of In-Reply-To: <34096.162.123.17.83.1103585002.squirrel@dilbert.jimbrain.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Jim Brain wrote: > Since the principals aren't subscribed, I'll do my best. <...> Good info, Jim! Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 20 21:43:15 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Problems reading older disk on newer drive In-Reply-To: <002101c4e6f3$c63e7580$6401a8c0@barton> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Bill Girnius wrote: > Well, Sam and I got it figured out and taken care of. Neither one of us is > really sure what happend, but it seems i did owe him ten dollars, how he got > missed I'm not sure, and paid him with interest, we might even become > friends. Yes, thanks. And "Sam" is an anachronism these days ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From lproven at gmail.com Mon Dec 20 22:38:19 2004 From: lproven at gmail.com (Liam Proven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive In-Reply-To: <007301c4e524$a07f09c0$1b406b43@66067007> References: <007301c4e524$a07f09c0$1b406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <575131af04122020381a4d26a0@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 11:11:26 -0600, Keys wrote: > IS it IBM? I need one for a museum display we are putting together. Thanks The physically smallest hard disk drive of which I am aware is the Cornice Storage Element, available from 40MB up to a gigabyte or so now. The unit is approximately 1" (one inch) square in its casing. http://www.corniceco.com/products/ -- Liam Proven Home: http://welcome.to/liamsweb * Blog: http://lproven.livejournal.com AOL, Yahoo UK: liamproven * ICQ: 73187508 * MSN: lproven@hotmail.com From allain at panix.com Mon Dec 20 23:13:12 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Liberator 220. References: <26c11a640412201606767462a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <009701c4e71b$e6290e00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > They also have a programmable front panel, with no instructions > and just three buttons. Does anyone know how this works. I would wade through the panel menus and write them all down for an overview. Menu buttons usually go something like [Next] [Accept/Down] [Reject/Up]. Obviously a found manual would be better. I would start testing with a 1GB drive just to see some easy successes early. DSSI always needs to be terminated AFAIK. I have a machine alot like yours to test too except instead it's the CMD brand Cobra model. John A. From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 20 23:30:11 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: OT: Html clue? In-Reply-To: References: <8620238F-52F2-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <625324EA-5311-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Dec 20, 2004, at 6:18 PM, 9000 VAX wrote: > On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 17:49:16 -0800, Ron Hudson > wrote: >> >> Ok, I have looked around in the documents for Angelfire, at other >> sites >> and I am still having problems getting this.. >> >> RockScissorPaper >> > RockScissorPaper.dmg or RockScissorsPaper.HTML? no, really, I put .dmg (I checked it 3 times) > > vax, 9000 >> trys to download RockScissorsPaper.HTML when I click it (the html I >> actually get >> is angelfire's 404 page) >> >> phhht. >> >> What is the "right" way to make a file available on my web page? >> >> > From allain at panix.com Mon Dec 20 23:35:09 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: OT: Html clue? References: <8620238F-52F2-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <625324EA-5311-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <00fe01c4e71e$d6b77940$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> It's likely not in the directory where you thought it was. From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 20 23:47:39 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: OT: Html clue? In-Reply-To: <00fe01c4e71e$d6b77940$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <8620238F-52F2-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <625324EA-5311-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <00fe01c4e71e$d6b77940$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Dec 20, 2004, at 9:35 PM, John Allain wrote: > It's likely not in the directory where you thought it was. > > It's in a subdirectory of the the directory where the INDEX.HTML named downloads thus "downloads/RockScissorsPaper.dmg" The website is: http://www.angelfire.com/mac2/pentaminogroup/ From peters04 at techwiz.ca Tue Dec 21 00:12:49 2004 From: peters04 at techwiz.ca (Peter Sjoberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: OT: Html clue? In-Reply-To: References: <8620238F-52F2-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <625324EA-5311-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <00fe01c4e71e$d6b77940$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <1103609569.7079.62.camel@picard.intra.techwiz.ca> On Mon, 2004-12-20 at 21:47 -0800, Ron Hudson wrote: > On Dec 20, 2004, at 9:35 PM, John Allain wrote: > > > It's likely not in the directory where you thought it was. > > > > > > It's in a subdirectory of the the directory where the INDEX.HTML named > downloads > > thus "downloads/RockScissorsPaper.dmg" > > The website is: > > > http://www.angelfire.com/mac2/pentaminogroup/ did just download http://www.angelfire.com/mac2/pentaminogroup/downloads/RockScissorsPaper.dmg Don't have my alpha up (power issue) so I can't check if the file was good but at least it was found. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Techwiz, Peter Sjoberg PGP key (12F506C8) on keyserver & homepage Key fingerprint = 3DC2 CEBA 1590 B41A 3780 955A DB42 02BB 12F5 06C8 mailto:peters04 AT techwiz.ca http://www.techwiz.ca/~peters From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Dec 21 02:58:02 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 20 Dec 2004 15:40:57 CST." Message-ID: <200412210858.IAA30516@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, McFadden, Mike said: > Not trying to start any flames but I didn't think they had any 30/30 > rifles in UK. A few "thutty-thutties" in the UK, I saw some ammo on sale recently... Not popular over here as they are not considered accurate enough for target work and are not powerful enough to be legal on deer :-) Winchesters in other calibres are quite common though... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From charlesb at otcgaming.net Tue Dec 21 04:15:55 2004 From: charlesb at otcgaming.net (charlesb@otcgaming.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Apollo Guidance Computer prototype replica References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E501EAEF60@mail10.congressfinancial.com> Message-ID: <001501c4e746$113e7790$04000100@gamemachine> I have it mirrored here, well at least up on my home machine, i'll get around to emailing him if he'll let me mirror it on my server. regards charles ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cini, Richard" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 6:50 PM Subject: RE: Apollo Guidance Computer prototype replica > Has anyone cached this yet? The bit rates are so low that it must be > hosted > on his machine at home. > > Heaven help him if this story gets posted to Slashdot :-) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.818 / Virus Database: 556 - Release Date: 17/12/2004 From dholland at woh.rr.com Tue Dec 21 04:57:10 2004 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Abandonware site charges for downloads In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1103626630.12341.11.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> A quicky glance, at the PC side of things, it appears they've spidered a better known free (ethical) abandonware site. I suspect they've probably done similarly w/ the non-PC side of things. And by "ethical", I mean if the PC site I'm thinking of knows someone sells it, or the IP owner sends a email / C&D they won't distribute it. (Further abandoware copyright ownership/ethical debates will be dutifully ignored.) David On Mon, 2004-12-20 at 19:24 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > What do you folks make of this site? > > > > http://free-game-downloads.mosw.com/ > > I've since come to find that this site is hosted in the Czech republic, > which may explain the more free-wheeling aspect of it. > From williams.dan at gmail.com Tue Dec 21 05:21:13 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: OT: Html clue? In-Reply-To: References: <8620238F-52F2-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <625324EA-5311-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <00fe01c4e71e$d6b77940$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <26c11a64041221032139902572@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 21:47:39 -0800, Ron Hudson wrote: > > On Dec 20, 2004, at 9:35 PM, John Allain wrote: > > > It's likely not in the directory where you thought it was. > > > > > > It's in a subdirectory of the the directory where the INDEX.HTML named > downloads > > thus "downloads/RockScissorsPaper.dmg" > > The website is: > > http://www.angelfire.com/mac2/pentaminogroup/ > > Just checking, in the original post you said RockScissorPaper Should that not be downloads. Dan From brad at heeltoe.com Tue Dec 21 07:31:44 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 20 Dec 2004 17:15:37 EST." Message-ID: <200412211331.iBLDViZf001494@mwave.heeltoe.com> William Donzelli wrote: >> Neither group seemed to be able to satisfactorily prove or disprove >> things one way or the other as to the origins of the name. > >The "more or less" official history book (the MIT press ones) have it as >the rifle story. My copy isn't handy right now. I thought it was named after a street in the area - Winchester Blvd? That's was I was always told - first sealed hda + media, named after street where lab was located. There is a Winchester Blvd in San Jose. but then, I believe a lot of stuff which is not true :-) -brad From allain at panix.com Tue Dec 21 08:34:58 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: OT: Html clue? References: <8620238F-52F2-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net><625324EA-5311-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net><00fe01c4e71e$d6b77940$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <005901c4e76a$3fb6a2e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > http://www.angelfire.com/mac2/pentaminogroup/ Looks like everybody here so far can download it. Some browsers may balk at the unknown file type. Some browsers cache html in a way the if you make a change to a file you may have to close and restart the browser to see your changes. From vcf at siconic.com Tue Dec 21 09:19:25 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: OT: Html clue? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Please find a more appropriate forum for this. On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > > On Dec 20, 2004, at 9:35 PM, John Allain wrote: > > > It's likely not in the directory where you thought it was. > > > > > > It's in a subdirectory of the the directory where the INDEX.HTML named > downloads > > thus "downloads/RockScissorsPaper.dmg" > > The website is: > > > http://www.angelfire.com/mac2/pentaminogroup/ -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Tue Dec 21 09:41:15 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: OT: Html clue? In-Reply-To: <26c11a64041221032139902572@mail.gmail.com> References: <8620238F-52F2-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <625324EA-5311-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <00fe01c4e71e$d6b77940$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <26c11a64041221032139902572@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Dec 21, 2004, at 3:21 AM, Dan Williams wrote: > On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 21:47:39 -0800, Ron Hudson > wrote: >> >> On Dec 20, 2004, at 9:35 PM, John Allain wrote: >> >>> It's likely not in the directory where you thought it was. >>> >>> >> >> It's in a subdirectory of the the directory where the INDEX.HTML named >> downloads >> >> thus "downloads/RockScissorsPaper.dmg" >> >> The website is: >> >> http://www.angelfire.com/mac2/pentaminogroup/ >> >> > Just checking, in the original post you said > > RockScissorPaper > > Should that not be downloads. Yes it should... I think the post is wrong, I'll check the code on the site...yup it's "downloads" on the site. OOh lookie here... I just fired up Microsoft Internet Explorer and tried my site, it gets .dmg instead of .html !!!!! Looks like a bug report goes to Apple for Safari! Gah! I hate Explorer! I wonder if firefox gets it right... > > Dan > From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Tue Dec 21 09:44:03 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: OT: Html clue? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <24242A56-5367-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> "General Discussion:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" On Dec 21, 2004, at 7:19 AM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Please find a more appropriate forum for this. > > On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > >> >> On Dec 20, 2004, at 9:35 PM, John Allain wrote: >> >>> It's likely not in the directory where you thought it was. >>> >>> >> >> It's in a subdirectory of the the directory where the INDEX.HTML named >> downloads >> >> thus "downloads/RockScissorsPaper.dmg" >> >> The website is: >> >> >> http://www.angelfire.com/mac2/pentaminogroup/ > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From arlen at acm.org Tue Dec 21 09:52:18 2004 From: arlen at acm.org (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Another iPDS query In-Reply-To: <019d01c4e61d$d6c08dc0$372d083d@river> Message-ID: The recent thread about getting river's iPDS up and running has reminded me: Does anyone have a spare "Multimodule Adapter Board" for the Intel iPDS? This is the adapter that allows iSBX cards (like bubble memory) to be added to the iPDS cpu board. As far as I can tell, it has four iSBX connectors on it, and plugs into J5 on the base processor board. If anyone has an extra, or even a picture and schematic so I could make one by hand, please get in touch. Thanks! Arlen Michaels From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Dec 21 09:57:27 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Computer rescue in Kalamazoo, MI USA In-Reply-To: <62932.24.247.156.80.1103643658.squirrel@solsun.visiwave.co m> References: <53350.146.113.42.89.1102524018.squirrel@solsun.visiwave.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041208104508.05472af8@pc> <53366.146.113.42.89.1102525398.squirrel@solsun.visiwave.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041208111400.056827b8@pc> <62932.24.247.156.80.1103643658.squirrel@solsun.visiwave.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041221095316.050daa68@mail> I received a request for computer rescue at Kalamazoo College www.kzoo.edu in Michigan. Below is a mostly-complete list. They'd like someone to pick it up in early January. - John Epson MX 80 F/T printer Epson ? the big picture - monitor Gateway 2000 486/25C - computer HP ? computer 45945C OKI DATA microline 182 ? printer Compaq ? computer & keyboard Panasonic ? monitor Osborne ? computer + software discs Seagate ? harddrive? ? 2 of them ST225 Northgate ? computer HP D class 9000 ? computer Sun-UltraSCSI Sun?- monitor Gateway 2000 ? keybord HP 700/96 ? monitor computer shell Apple ? computer port HP ? keyboard ?computer ?computer AT&T Unix PC-computer+screen Sun Ultra I ? computer +screen IBM-PCAT ? computer IBM-PC? Apple IIe Digital VT100 From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Dec 21 10:08:59 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: OT: Html clue? In-Reply-To: References: <8620238F-52F2-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <625324EA-5311-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <00fe01c4e71e$d6b77940$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <26c11a64041221032139902572@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1103645339.28145.70.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-12-21 at 07:41 -0800, Ron Hudson wrote: > OOh lookie here... I just fired up Microsoft Internet Explorer and > tried my site, it gets .dmg instead of .html !!!!! > > Looks like a bug report goes to Apple for Safari! Gah! I hate Explorer! > I wonder if firefox gets it right... mime type bug? IE I believe doesn't follow the spec and treats the file extension as authorative over the mime type (good ol' MS), whereas other browsers do work to the spec and obey the mime type. So if the server's sending a mime type of html for that dmg file (because it's incorrectly configured) then it's going to cause strange problems at the client side. Given the amount of pop-up ads, http redirects and other crud going on with angelfire I'd recommend you move your web content to a different provider though! Yuck :-( Trying to download the file from the command line via wget gives a 404 error along with "Cookie coming from www.angelfire.com attempted to set domain to angelfire.lycos.com". cheers Jules From wacarder at usit.net Tue Dec 21 10:27:42 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: Old Unibus PDP-11 XXDP diagnostics Message-ID: <001c01c4e779$ffb668a0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Does anyone have any info/documentation on the XXDP diagnostics for older PDP-11 systems and peripherals? I'm looking in particular for the 11/40 (11/35), RK05, DZ11, RL02, MM11 core memory, RX01, RL01 diagnostics. I have found some info on Henk's site, but would like to know if anyone has a comprehensive list and hints on how to run these, what the output means, how to answer the prompts, etc. I have created RL02 packs with XXDP 2.5 and XXDP 2.2 and I can boot and run stuff from these packs. It appears that the 11/40 diagnostics are on XXDP 2.2, but not on XXDP 2.5. I have an old 1976 DEC field rep troubleshooting guide that refers to various MAINDECs, which seem to have been the diagnostics prior to XXDP. Is there a list somewhere showing what the XXDP equivalents of the old MAINDECs are? Any help would be appreciated. I want to exercise my 11/40 and attached peripherals and see if any subtle gremlins are lurking anywhere within. Everything appears to be working perfectly with the exception of one of my three RK05 drives that I knew was problematic. Ashley From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Tue Dec 21 10:35:45 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:29 2005 Subject: OT: Html clue? In-Reply-To: <1103645339.28145.70.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <8620238F-52F2-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <625324EA-5311-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <00fe01c4e71e$d6b77940$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <26c11a64041221032139902572@mail.gmail.com> <1103645339.28145.70.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <5D3B225E-536E-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Dec 21, 2004, at 8:08 AM, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Tue, 2004-12-21 at 07:41 -0800, Ron Hudson wrote: > >> OOh lookie here... I just fired up Microsoft Internet Explorer and >> tried my site, it gets .dmg instead of .html !!!!! >> >> Looks like a bug report goes to Apple for Safari! Gah! I hate >> Explorer! >> I wonder if firefox gets it right... > > mime type bug? > > IE I believe doesn't follow the spec and treats the file extension as > authorative over the mime type (good ol' MS), whereas other browsers do > work to the spec and obey the mime type. So if the server's sending a > mime type of html for that dmg file (because it's incorrectly > configured) then it's going to cause strange problems at the client > side. > Can I put something in the tag to change this? > > Given the amount of pop-up ads, http redirects and other crud going on > with angelfire I'd recommend you move your web content to a different > provider though! Yuck :-( I guess you get what you pay for... I don't have any money for hosting "GPL and free as in beer too" software. Angelfire sells advertising so they can give web-sites away free, Tripod and any other free places probably do the same... > > Trying to download the file from the command line via wget gives a 404 > error along with "Cookie coming from www.angelfire.com attempted to set > domain to angelfire.lycos.com". > Hmmm... > cheers > > Jules > From vcf at siconic.com Tue Dec 21 10:43:01 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: OT: Html clue? In-Reply-To: <24242A56-5367-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > "General Discussion:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" So shall I start talking about how hairy my ass is? I'm sure I can regale you with tales that will stretch out over days, weeks, maybe even months. Your call. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From williams.dan at gmail.com Tue Dec 21 10:52:27 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: OT: Html clue? In-Reply-To: References: <24242A56-5367-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <26c11a64041221085267d88b60@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 08:43:01 -0800 (PST), Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > > > "General Discussion:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > So shall I start talking about how hairy my ass is? I'm sure I can regale > you with tales that will stretch out over days, weeks, maybe even months. > > Your call. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > Can you leave it a couple of hours it's nearly time for dinner over the water ;) Dan From aek at spies.com Tue Dec 21 10:59:03 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: clueless eBay seller for today is: Message-ID: <20041221165903.665764C68@spies.com> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5150357271 "A shroud of mystery hangs over the history and specification of this classic computer system." -- Good thing he wasn't trying to sell something was really WAS obscure. From bqt at Update.UU.SE Tue Dec 21 11:01:31 2004 From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Old Unibus PDP-11 XXDP diagnostics In-Reply-To: <001c01c4e779$ffb668a0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> References: <001c01c4e779$ffb668a0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > Does anyone have any info/documentation on the XXDP diagnostics for > older PDP-11 systems and peripherals? I'm looking in particular for the > 11/40 (11/35), RK05, DZ11, RL02, MM11 core memory, RX01, RL01 > diagnostics. I have found some info on Henk's site, but would like to > know if anyone has a comprehensive list and hints on how to run these, > what the output means, how to answer the prompts, etc. I think I have some information in paper form around somewhere. Probably easiest to ask about specifics. > I have created RL02 packs with XXDP 2.5 and XXDP 2.2 and I can boot and > run stuff from these packs. It appears that the 11/40 diagnostics are > on XXDP 2.2, but not on XXDP 2.5. I have an old 1976 DEC field rep > troubleshooting guide that refers to various MAINDECs, which seem to > have been the diagnostics prior to XXDP. Is there a list somewhere > showing what the XXDP equivalents of the old MAINDECs are? I think MAINDECs are the specific test program that you can find on your XXDP pack. The older test programs should be runnable on new XXDP as well, but one RL02 is definitely not enough to hold everything, so they probably stripped away some older test suits. > Any help would be appreciated. I want to exercise my 11/40 and > attached peripherals and see if any subtle gremlins are lurking anywhere > within. Everything appears to be working perfectly with the exception > of one of my three RK05 drives that I knew was problematic. Ask away. Might as well do it privately as well. No point in usign the bw of the list for specific items. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Dec 21 11:15:10 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Old Unibus PDP-11 XXDP diagnostics In-Reply-To: References: <001c01c4e779$ffb668a0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <001c01c4e779$ffb668a0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20041221111407.02515480@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 06:01 PM 12/21/2004 +0100, Johnny Billquist wrote: >On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > >>Does anyone have any info/documentation on the XXDP diagnostics for older >>PDP-11 systems and peripherals? I'm looking in particular for the 11/40 >>(11/35), RK05, DZ11, RL02, MM11 core memory, RX01, RL01 diagnostics. I >>have found some info on Henk's site, but would like to know if anyone has >>a comprehensive list and hints on how to run these, what the output >>means, how to answer the prompts, etc. > >I think I have some information in paper form around somewhere. Probably >easiest to ask about specifics. > >>I have created RL02 packs with XXDP 2.5 and XXDP 2.2 and I can boot and >>run stuff from these packs. It appears that the 11/40 diagnostics are on >>XXDP 2.2, but not on XXDP 2.5. I have an old 1976 DEC field rep >>troubleshooting guide that refers to various MAINDECs, which seem to have >>been the diagnostics prior to XXDP. Is there a list somewhere showing >>what the XXDP equivalents of the old MAINDECs are? > >I think MAINDECs are the specific test program that you can find on your >XXDP pack. >The older test programs should be runnable on new XXDP as well, but one >RL02 is definitely not enough to hold everything, so they probably >stripped away some older test suits. > >>Any help would be appreciated. I want to exercise my 11/40 and attached >>peripherals and see if any subtle gremlins are lurking anywhere >>within. Everything appears to be working perfectly with the exception of >>one of my three RK05 drives that I knew was problematic. > >Ask away. >Might as well do it privately as well. No point in usign the bw of the >list for specific items. I would prefer to see the list BW used by topics such as this than the numerous other completely off topic discussions which seem to congest my mailbox. --tom > Johnny > >Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus > || on a psychedelic trip >email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books >pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol > From ggs at shiresoft.com Tue Dec 21 11:14:56 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Old Unibus PDP-11 XXDP diagnostics In-Reply-To: <001c01c4e779$ffb668a0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> References: <001c01c4e779$ffb668a0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Message-ID: <1103649295.6150.10.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> On Tue, 2004-12-21 at 08:27, Ashley Carder wrote: > Does anyone have any info/documentation on the XXDP diagnostics for > older PDP-11 systems and peripherals? I'm looking in particular for > the 11/40 (11/35), RK05, DZ11, RL02, MM11 core memory, RX01, RL01 > diagnostics. I have found some info on Henk's site, but would like to > know if anyone has a comprehensive list and hints on how to run these, > what the output means, how to answer the prompts, etc. > > I have created RL02 packs with XXDP 2.5 and XXDP 2.2 and I can boot > and run stuff from these packs. It appears that the 11/40 diagnostics > are on XXDP 2.2, but not on XXDP 2.5. I have an old 1976 DEC field > rep troubleshooting guide that refers to various MAINDECs, which seem > to have been the diagnostics prior to XXDP. Is there a list somewhere > showing what the XXDP equivalents of the old MAINDECs are? OK, the "magic decoder ring" for converting the MAINDECs to XXDP names is quite simple. The MAINDEC # is of the form: MAINDEC-11-Dxxxx-* To convert this to the XXDP diagnostic name keep only the xxxx part of the MAINDEC #. To run it, do: R xxxx?? The first letter in the diagnostic name tells you what processor it's for. If I remember correctly C=11/40, Z=any There's a document that tells all about it (but I can't remember where I found it at the moment). The pack images that you're talking about don't have the correct memory diagnostic, but I've found that ZMSDD0 (wow! from memory...can you tell I've used it a bunch?) works OK enough to be able to find bad memory and you'll know when you hit bad memory. I've also found that having a hardcopy terminal is preferable to a CRT when you're getting failures. If a diagnostic loads and then gives you a prompt like "DB>", START is a good choice as a response. > > Any help would be appreciated. I want to exercise my 11/40 and > attached peripherals and see if any subtle gremlins are lurking > anywhere within. Everything appears to be working perfectly with the > exception of one of my three RK05 drives that I knew was problematic. > > Ashley -- TTFN - Guy From wacarder at usit.net Tue Dec 21 11:32:17 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Old Unibus PDP-11 XXDP diagnostics References: <001c01c4e779$ffb668a0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <1103649295.6150.10.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <004901c4e783$05324890$f71b0f14@wcarder1> > On Tue, 2004-12-21 at 08:27, Ashley Carder wrote: > > Does anyone have any info/documentation on the XXDP diagnostics for > > older PDP-11 systems and peripherals? I'm looking in particular for > > the 11/40 (11/35), RK05, DZ11, RL02, MM11 core memory, RX01, RL01 > > diagnostics. I have found some info on Henk's site, but would like to > > know if anyone has a comprehensive list and hints on how to run these, > > what the output means, how to answer the prompts, etc. > > > > I have created RL02 packs with XXDP 2.5 and XXDP 2.2 and I can boot > > and run stuff from these packs. It appears that the 11/40 diagnostics > > are on XXDP 2.2, but not on XXDP 2.5. I have an old 1976 DEC field > > rep troubleshooting guide that refers to various MAINDECs, which seem > > to have been the diagnostics prior to XXDP. Is there a list somewhere > > showing what the XXDP equivalents of the old MAINDECs are? > > OK, the "magic decoder ring" for converting the MAINDECs to XXDP names > is quite simple. The MAINDEC # is of the form: > MAINDEC-11-Dxxxx-* > > To convert this to the XXDP diagnostic name keep only the xxxx part of > the MAINDEC #. To run it, do: > R xxxx?? > > The first letter in the diagnostic name tells you what processor it's > for. If I remember correctly C=11/40, Z=any > > There's a document that tells all about it (but I can't remember where I > found it at the moment). I have a copy of the MAINDEC naming convention magic decoder in the "PDP-11 Mainframe Troubleshooting Guide". I just didn't know how to make the conversion from MAINDEC name to XXDP name. > The pack images that you're talking about don't have the correct memory > diagnostic, but I've found that ZMSDD0 (wow! from memory...can you tell > I've used it a bunch?) works OK enough to be able to find bad memory and > you'll know when you hit bad memory. I've also found that having a > hardcopy terminal is preferable to a CRT when you're getting failures. > > If a diagnostic loads and then gives you a prompt like "DB>", START is a > good choice as a response. > > > > > Any help would be appreciated. I want to exercise my 11/40 and > > attached peripherals and see if any subtle gremlins are lurking > > anywhere within. Everything appears to be working perfectly with the > > exception of one of my three RK05 drives that I knew was problematic. > > > > Ashley > -- > > TTFN - Guy > From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Tue Dec 21 11:28:06 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: OT: Html clue? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Dec 21, 2004, at 8:43 AM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > >> "General Discussion:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > So shall I start talking about how hairy my ass is? I'm sure I can > regale > you with tales that will stretch out over days, weeks, maybe even > months. > So, How hairy is it? The question is how many people replied with help. btw is your ass computerized? > Your call. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Dec 21 11:31:03 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: OT: Html clue? In-Reply-To: <5D3B225E-536E-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> References: <8620238F-52F2-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <625324EA-5311-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <00fe01c4e71e$d6b77940$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <26c11a64041221032139902572@mail.gmail.com> <1103645339.28145.70.camel@weka.localdomain> <5D3B225E-536E-11D9-AC69-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <1103650263.28163.76.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-12-21 at 08:35 -0800, Ron Hudson wrote: > On Dec 21, 2004, at 8:08 AM, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > On Tue, 2004-12-21 at 07:41 -0800, Ron Hudson wrote: > > > >> OOh lookie here... I just fired up Microsoft Internet Explorer and > >> tried my site, it gets .dmg instead of .html !!!!! > >> > >> Looks like a bug report goes to Apple for Safari! Gah! I hate > >> Explorer! > >> I wonder if firefox gets it right... > > > > mime type bug? > Can I put something in the tag to change this? not according to http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html32.html#anchor - it's purely server-side. I expect Angelfire do it deliberately to stop people hosting illegal content (such as mp3 files, possibly renamed with other extensions) on their sites. > > Given the amount of pop-up ads, http redirects and other crud going on > > with angelfire I'd recommend you move your web content to a different > > provider though! Yuck :-( > > I guess you get what you pay for... I don't have any money for hosting > "GPL and free as in beer too" software. Don't you have an ISP who gives you free webspace? (Or is Angelfire an ISP? Always thought they just did webspace though) > Angelfire sells advertising so they can give web-sites away free, Tripod > and any other free places probably do the same... Well most ISPs over here give out free webspace with no ads and far more bandwidth than the likes of Tripod... cheers J. From vcf at siconic.com Tue Dec 21 11:39:00 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: OT: Html clue? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > On Dec 21, 2004, at 8:43 AM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > > > >> "General Discussion:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > > So shall I start talking about how hairy my ass is? I'm sure I can > > regale > > you with tales that will stretch out over days, weeks, maybe even > > months. > > > > So, How hairy is it? If you were to compare it to how inept you are at using Google, you'd get an idea. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Dec 21 11:39:33 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Old Unibus PDP-11 XXDP diagnostics In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20041221111407.02515480@mail.ubanproductions.com> References: <001c01c4e779$ffb668a0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <001c01c4e779$ffb668a0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <5.2.0.9.0.20041221111407.02515480@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <200412211741.MAA20376@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> Ask away. >> Might as well do it privately as well. No point in usign the bw of >> the list for specific items. > I would prefer to see the list BW used by topics such as this than > the numerous other completely off topic discussions which seem to > congest my mailbox. Maybe you'd be happier subscribed to cctech instead of cctalk? (Assuming you aren't already. If you are, I'd say your real beef is with the moderator(s), for letting offtopic stuff through.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From wacarder at usit.net Tue Dec 21 11:50:21 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Old Unibus PDP-11 XXDP diagnostics References: <001c01c4e779$ffb668a0$f71b0f14@wcarder1><1103649295.6150.10.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> <004901c4e783$05324890$f71b0f14@wcarder1> Message-ID: <006c01c4e785$8b0c1cf0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> > > OK, the "magic decoder ring" for converting the MAINDECs to XXDP names > > is quite simple. The MAINDEC # is of the form: > > MAINDEC-11-Dxxxx-* > > > > To convert this to the XXDP diagnostic name keep only the xxxx part of > > the MAINDEC #. To run it, do: > > R xxxx?? > > > > The first letter in the diagnostic name tells you what processor it's > > for. If I remember correctly C=11/40, Z=any > > > > There's a document that tells all about it (but I can't remember where I > > found it at the moment). > > I have a copy of the MAINDEC naming convention magic decoder in the > "PDP-11 Mainframe Troubleshooting Guide". I just didn't know how to > make the conversion from MAINDEC name to XXDP name. > > The pack images that you're talking about don't have the correct memory > > diagnostic, but I've found that ZMSDD0 (wow! from memory...can you tell > > I've used it a bunch?) works OK enough to be able to find bad memory and > > you'll know when you hit bad memory. I've also found that having a > > hardcopy terminal is preferable to a CRT when you're getting failures. > > > > If a diagnostic loads and then gives you a prompt like "DB>", START is a > > good choice as a response. Guy, I also meant to say thanks for the good info. That will help me out a lot and it helps remove some of the "shroud of mystery" (yep, Al, I picked that up from your recent post) that surrounds XXDP. Does anyone have any older XXDP versions than 2.5 and 2.2? Ashley From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Dec 21 12:20:47 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Computer rescue in Kalamazoo, MI USA In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041221095316.050daa68@mail> References: <62932.24.247.156.80.1103643658.squirrel@solsun.visiwave.co m> <53350.146.113.42.89.1102524018.squirrel@solsun.visiwave.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041208104508.05472af8@pc> <53366.146.113.42.89.1102525398.squirrel@solsun.visiwave.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041208111400.056827b8@pc> <62932.24.247.156.80.1103643658.squirrel@solsun.visiwave.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041221131602.00b073c0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that John Foust may have mentioned these words: >I received a request for computer rescue at Kalamazoo College >www.kzoo.edu in Michigan. Below is a mostly-complete list. >They'd like someone to pick it up in early January. I *may* be able to rescue this if no-one else can, but I'd need to find homes for most all of it fairly soon, as I don't have a ton of suitable storage space (especially since it was -18F Sunday, and -10F yesterday...) -- about the only thing I might be interested in myself is the HP9K but if someone else wanted it really bad... ;-) Keep in mind Kzoo is a 600mile round trip, so a few bones for gas above item shipping would be a plus for those who may want it... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | A new truth in advertising slogan SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers | for MicroSoft: "We're not the oxy... zmerch@30below.com | ...in oxymoron!" From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Dec 21 12:23:41 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: clueless eBay seller for today is: In-Reply-To: <20041221165903.665764C68@spies.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041221132300.03bdd008@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Al Kossow may have mentioned these words: >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5150357271 > >"A shroud of mystery hangs over the history and specification of this >classic computer system." > >Good thing he wasn't trying to sell something was really WAS obscure. At least he didn't want $10,000 USD for the mystery, either... ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Bugs of a feather flock together." sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Russell Nelson zmerch@30below.com | From vcf at siconic.com Tue Dec 21 13:03:28 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Off-topic message confusion In-Reply-To: <200412211741.MAA20376@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, der Mouse wrote: > >> Ask away. > >> Might as well do it privately as well. No point in usign the bw of > >> the list for specific items. > > I would prefer to see the list BW used by topics such as this than > > the numerous other completely off topic discussions which seem to > > congest my mailbox. > > Maybe you'd be happier subscribed to cctech instead of cctalk? > > (Assuming you aren't already. If you are, I'd say your real beef is > with the moderator(s), for letting offtopic stuff through.) Look everyone: this is a way too liberal interpretation of the "off-topicness" of CCTALK. It wasn't intended to be an invitation to post about just anything you felt like that day. If that was the case, CCTALK would've devolved into a cesspool about 2 weeks into the experiment. The purpose of splitting the mailing list was to have one list where the occasional off-topic posts were tolerated, but it certainly WAS NOT AN INVITATION TO USE IT AS AN ALTERNATIVE TO GOOGLE. Google works great if you would just take the 10 minutes it takes to learn to use it well. Using the list as an alternative to Google, which "some" folks do, is violating the spirit of the purpose of CCTALK. At least have the courtesy to take blatantly off-topic questions off-line (and SPECIFICALLY REQUEST that any off-topic answers go to private e-mail). "ON-TOPIC" takes priority over off-topic. Please don't abuse the list. Other people use it too. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Dec 21 13:09:38 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Old Unibus PDP-11 XXDP diagnostics In-Reply-To: Guy Sotomayor "Re: Old Unibus PDP-11 XXDP diagnostics" (Dec 21, 9:14) References: <001c01c4e779$ffb668a0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> <1103649295.6150.10.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <10412211909.ZM28409@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 21 2004, 9:14, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > On Tue, 2004-12-21 at 08:27, Ashley Carder wrote: > > Does anyone have any info/documentation on the XXDP diagnostics for > > older PDP-11 systems and peripherals? I'm looking in particular for > > the 11/40 (11/35), RK05, DZ11, RL02, MM11 core memory, RX01, RL01 > > diagnostics. I have found some info on Henk's site, but would like to > > know if anyone has a comprehensive list and hints on how to run these, > > what the output means, how to answer the prompts, etc. It would be a big list :-) I had a whole box of microfiche of them, once. Later diagnostics use a common set of "switches" to tell them whether to halt on error, loop on erro, produce lots of reports, etc; alsmost all diagnostics have specific settings to determine what they do in detail. If they halt on error, you need the isting to determine exactly what caused the halt -- they don't, in general, print much informative info. > OK, the "magic decoder ring" for converting the MAINDECs to XXDP names > is quite simple. The MAINDEC # is of the form: > MAINDEC-11-Dxxxx-* > > To convert this to the XXDP diagnostic name keep only the xxxx part of > the MAINDEC #. To run it, do: > R xxxx?? > > The first letter in the diagnostic name tells you what processor it's > for. If I remember correctly C=11/40, Z=any B is 11/40; C is 11/45 > There's a document that tells all about it (but I can't remember where I > found it at the moment). That would probably be mine, at http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/PDP-11/XXDP.pdf XXDP.ps is the same content, just a different format. The bits from page 6 to 12 are from V2.4, but the rest is mostly version-independant. > The pack images that you're talking about don't have the correct memory > diagnostic, but I've found that ZMSDD0 (wow! from memory...can you tell > I've used it a bunch?) works OK enough to be able to find bad memory and > you'll know when you hit bad memory. I've also found that having a > hardcopy terminal is preferable to a CRT when you're getting failures. > > If a diagnostic loads and then gives you a prompt like "DB>", START is a > good choice as a response. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From aek at spies.com Tue Dec 21 13:22:27 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Don Lancaster's postings on alt.marketing.online.ebay Message-ID: <20041221192227.C6B7D4C6F@spies.com> quite an interesting newsgroup, actually. stumbled onto it yesterday. http://www.tinaja.com/aucres01.asp may be of interest. From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Tue Dec 21 13:23:35 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: OT: Html clue? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Dec 21, 2004, at 9:39 AM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > If you were to compare it to how inept you are at using Google, you'd > get > an idea. Bald as a baby... Sellam, for your edification, Your right I had no clue -what- to google in this case, but I went to websites where I knew files were directly available for download, i examined the source, it looked the same as what I had. I went to a source of information where MOST people are helpful, I even marked my subject as OFF TOPIC so those with sensitive eyes could avoid offense. I read cctalk and if I can help someone with a problem I help them regardless if their request if off topic. From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Dec 21 13:42:23 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Off-topic message confusion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41C87C9F.1050603@mdrconsult.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, der Mouse wrote: > > >>>>Ask away. >>>>Might as well do it privately as well. No point in usign the bw of >>>>the list for specific items. >>> >>>I would prefer to see the list BW used by topics such as this than >>>the numerous other completely off topic discussions which seem to >>>congest my mailbox. >> >>Maybe you'd be happier subscribed to cctech instead of cctalk? >> >>(Assuming you aren't already. If you are, I'd say your real beef is >>with the moderator(s), for letting offtopic stuff through.) > > > Look everyone: this is a way too liberal interpretation of the > "off-topicness" of CCTALK. It wasn't intended to be an invitation to post > about just anything you felt like that day. If that was the case, CCTALK > would've devolved into a cesspool about 2 weeks into the experiment. > > The purpose of splitting the mailing list was to have one list where the > occasional off-topic posts were tolerated, but it certainly WAS NOT AN > INVITATION TO USE IT AS AN ALTERNATIVE TO GOOGLE. Google works great if > you would just take the 10 minutes it takes to learn to use it well. > Using the list as an alternative to Google, which "some" folks do, is > violating the spirit of the purpose of CCTALK. At least have the courtesy > to take blatantly off-topic questions off-line (and SPECIFICALLY REQUEST > that any off-topic answers go to private e-mail). > > "ON-TOPIC" takes priority over off-topic. Please don't abuse the list. > Other people use it too. Nonononono, Sellam! *I* am the moderator! Doc From GOOI at oce.nl Tue Dec 21 13:44:59 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Old Unibus PDP-11 XXDP diagnostics Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A0111343E@gd-mail03.oce.nl> I could go and check ... AFAICR I also have a stack of listings that belong to XXDP programs. When a stop/halt occurs at an address, you read the listing of the XXDP diagnostic program to learn near the address where the stop occurred for what reason that stop occurred. I'll report back later! - Henk. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org To: info-pdp11@village.org; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Sent: 21-12-2004 17:27 Subject: Old Unibus PDP-11 XXDP diagnostics Does anyone have any info/documentation on the XXDP diagnostics for older PDP-11 systems and peripherals? I'm looking in particular for the 11/40 (11/35), RK05, DZ11, RL02, MM11 core memory, RX01, RL01 diagnostics. I have found some info on Henk's site, but would like to know if anyone has a comprehensive list and hints on how to run these, what the output means, how to answer the prompts, etc. I have created RL02 packs with XXDP 2.5 and XXDP 2.2 and I can boot and run stuff from these packs. It appears that the 11/40 diagnostics are on XXDP 2.2, but not on XXDP 2.5. I have an old 1976 DEC field rep troubleshooting guide that refers to various MAINDECs, which seem to have been the diagnostics prior to XXDP. Is there a list somewhere showing what the XXDP equivalents of the old MAINDECs are? Any help would be appreciated. I want to exercise my 11/40 and attached peripherals and see if any subtle gremlins are lurking anywhere within. Everything appears to be working perfectly with the exception of one of my three RK05 drives that I knew was problematic. Ashley From vcf at siconic.com Tue Dec 21 13:44:59 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: OT: Html clue? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > Sellam, for your edification, Your right I had no clue -what- to google > in this case, but I went to websites where I knew files were directly > available for download, i examined the source, it looked the same as > what I had. I went to a source of information where MOST people are > helpful, I even marked my subject as OFF TOPIC so those with sensitive > eyes could avoid offense. I read cctalk and if I can help someone with a > problem I help them regardless if their request if off topic. You're telling me that in ALL the billions of pages of the WWW, you couldn't find a group to which you could pose your question and get a good answer? I find that RATHER disingenuous. Or are you saying you lack the patience to find such a group, or if you do, to then wait for an adequate answer like the rest of us? My problem is that you are abusing the list with your numerous questions that have nothing to do with what we're here to suggest. At least 3-4 in the past month. Might I make a suggestion? In the past, when I've exhausted all other resources, I come to the list (as a last resort) and pose my question and request OFF-LIST replies. It's momentarily intrusive, as opposed to creating an entire thread that belongs in some other forum somewhere else on the internet. The list is certainly a great resource of highly intelligent people who have expertise is a wide range of technical and otherwise subject areas, but DON'T ABUSE IT. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Dec 21 13:46:25 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Off-topic message confusion In-Reply-To: <41C87C9F.1050603@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Doc Shipley wrote: > Nonononono, Sellam! > > *I* am the moderator! So you're saying you'd be happy to wade through dozens of messages about my hairy ass? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From GOOI at oce.nl Tue Dec 21 13:58:27 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Old Unibus PDP-11 XXDP diagnostics Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A0111343F@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Ok, I checked. I am that fast back because I remembered exactly where to look :~) I have one before me on the desk. It has the following description: PRODUCT CODE: AC-8528C-MC PRODUCT NAME: CZDLDC0 DL11-W DIAG DATE CREATED: MARCH 1978 MAINTAINER : DIAGNOSTIC ENGINEERING AUTHOR : DAN CASALETTO Don't be fooled, it is printed on Letter format, 2-sided! Only the first 6 pages are one page per side, all the following pages are scaled: 2 pages per side, thus 4 pages (or images) per sheet. The first 6 pages describe the load and start procedure, the switch bits to get special functions, etc. just as described on my site. The scaled pages contain the assembly source (output) listing ... they are numbered from "seq 0012"up to "seq 0103", and I checked, the numbering is not octal but decimal! If there is interest I could start to scan these to 600 dpi PDF files, but I have a stack of approx 20-30 cm high, so that will be a lot MB's! I could start making a list of what's in the box. Xmas is coming :~) - Henk. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org To: info-pdp11@village.org; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Sent: 21-12-2004 17:27 Subject: Old Unibus PDP-11 XXDP diagnostics Does anyone have any info/documentation on the XXDP diagnostics for older PDP-11 systems and peripherals? I'm looking in particular for the 11/40 (11/35), RK05, DZ11, RL02, MM11 core memory, RX01, RL01 diagnostics. I have found some info on Henk's site, but would like to know if anyone has a comprehensive list and hints on how to run these, what the output means, how to answer the prompts, etc. I have created RL02 packs with XXDP 2.5 and XXDP 2.2 and I can boot and run stuff from these packs. It appears that the 11/40 diagnostics are on XXDP 2.2, but not on XXDP 2.5. I have an old 1976 DEC field rep troubleshooting guide that refers to various MAINDECs, which seem to have been the diagnostics prior to XXDP. Is there a list somewhere showing what the XXDP equivalents of the old MAINDECs are? Any help would be appreciated. I want to exercise my 11/40 and attached peripherals and see if any subtle gremlins are lurking anywhere within. Everything appears to be working perfectly with the exception of one of my three RK05 drives that I knew was problematic. Ashley From vcf at siconic.com Tue Dec 21 13:59:47 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: OT: Html clue? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Web Searching Tips This section of Search Engine Watch provides tips on using search engines better, along with some fun facts such as what people search for on search engines. http://searchenginewatch.com/facts/ -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From marvin at rain.org Tue Dec 21 14:07:46 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (marvin@rain.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Mail Authentication Message-ID: <200412212026.iBLKPxjd050673@huey.classiccmp.org> Encrypted message is available. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Dec 21 14:05:20 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Off-topic message confusion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1103659520.28145.81.camel@weka.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-12-21 at 11:46 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > Nonononono, Sellam! > > > > *I* am the moderator! > > So you're saying you'd be happy to wade through dozens of messages about > my hairy ass? Seriously? I suspect he'd just ignore and delete them, as I suspect most of us do with topics that aren't of interest / relevant to us (hell, I could kick up a fuss about all the US-specific stuff if I wanted because it had no bearing on me, but I just delete it and rightly so). This list is one of the best out there; the OT content is only a tiny percent of postings and it has a habit of managing itself. It really ain't worth getting in a stress over the occasional OT post, whatever the content... My 2{insert local currency here} anyway... From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Dec 21 14:18:15 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Off-topic message confusion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41C88507.9060908@mdrconsult.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Doc Shipley wrote: > > >> Nonononono, Sellam! >> >> *I* am the moderator! > > > So you're saying you'd be happy to wade through dozens of messages about > my hairy ass? Dude, you're *already* showing your ass. What else would be new? I'm saying I was absent the day you were given the reins to this list. As far as I can tell, Ron's definition of "permissible off-topic" carries as much weight as yours, or mine for that matter. And, as usual, the carping about OT,OT! has generated more lines of email than the query itself. Doc From wacarder at usit.net Tue Dec 21 14:37:47 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Old Unibus PDP-11 XXDP diagnostics References: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A0111343F@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Message-ID: <00a601c4e79c$ef0149d0$f71b0f14@wcarder1> > Ok, I checked. > I am that fast back because I remembered exactly where to look :~) > I have one before me on the desk. > It has the following description: > > PRODUCT CODE: AC-8528C-MC > PRODUCT NAME: CZDLDC0 DL11-W DIAG > DATE CREATED: MARCH 1978 > MAINTAINER : DIAGNOSTIC ENGINEERING > AUTHOR : DAN CASALETTO > > Don't be fooled, it is printed on Letter format, 2-sided! > Only the first 6 pages are one page per side, all the following > pages are scaled: 2 pages per side, thus 4 pages (or images) per sheet. > The first 6 pages describe the load and start procedure, the switch > bits to get special functions, etc. just as described on my site. > The scaled pages contain the assembly source (output) listing ... > they are numbered from "seq 0012"up to "seq 0103", and I checked, > the numbering is not octal but decimal! > If there is interest I could start to scan these to 600 dpi PDF files, > but I have a stack of approx 20-30 cm high, so that will be a lot MB's! > I could start making a list of what's in the box. Xmas is coming :~) > - Henk. Henk, sign me up for whatever you decide to scan. BTW, I put your Christmas present in the mail a little while ago! Ashley From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Dec 21 14:25:52 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: clueless eBay seller for today is: In-Reply-To: <20041221165903.665764C68@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041221152552.00980840@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> He certainly hasn't found your website, has he Al? At least he's not claiming that it's "complete and fully functional" like the seller of that recent F-series 1000 did. Joe At 08:59 AM 12/21/04 -0800, Al wrote: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5150357271 > >"A shroud of mystery hangs over the history and specification of this classic computer system." > >-- > >Good thing he wasn't trying to sell something was really WAS obscure. > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Dec 21 15:08:25 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: clueless eBay seller for today is: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041221152552.00980840@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at Dec 21, 2004 03:25:52 PM Message-ID: <200412212108.iBLL8PGn015247@onyx.spiritone.com> > He certainly hasn't found your website, has he Al? At least he's not > claiming that it's "complete and fully functional" like the seller of that > recent F-series 1000 did. > > Joe I'd noticed that it's missing something from that back. That's not the card cage is it? What is it missing? Zane From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Dec 21 15:17:24 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Old Unibus PDP-11 XXDP diagnostics In-Reply-To: Gooijen H "RE: Old Unibus PDP-11 XXDP diagnostics" (Dec 21, 20:58) References: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A0111343F@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Message-ID: <10412212117.ZM28644@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 21 2004, 20:58, Gooijen H wrote: > Ok, I checked. > I am that fast back because I remembered exactly where to look :~) > I have one before me on the desk. > It has the following description: > > PRODUCT CODE: AC-8528C-MC > PRODUCT NAME: CZDLDC0 DL11-W DIAG > DATE CREATED: MARCH 1978 > MAINTAINER : DIAGNOSTIC ENGINEERING > AUTHOR : DAN CASALETTO > > Don't be fooled, it is printed on Letter format, 2-sided! > Only the first 6 pages are one page per side, all the following > pages are scaled: 2 pages per side, thus 4 pages (or images) per sheet. > The first 6 pages describe the load and start procedure, the switch > bits to get special functions, etc. just as described on my site. > The scaled pages contain the assembly source (output) listing ... > they are numbered from "seq 0012"up to "seq 0103", and I checked, > the numbering is not octal but decimal! > If there is interest I could start to scan these to 600 dpi PDF files, > but I have a stack of approx 20-30 cm high, so that will be a lot MB's! I have a stack about the same size, and I've been thinking about scanning stuff like that (to PDFs or 600dpi TIFF), when my department gets its big scanner, probably in January (Sorry, Henk, it's not an Oce). A list of what's available would be good. I suspect that a lot of what I have overlaps with Henk's, but if I can fill in any gaps, I'll try to do so. Some of the diags are quite long, tens of sheets 2-up, double-sided, except for the first few pages, as Henk says, but some are relatively small. > I could start making a list of what's in the box. Xmas is coming :~) A list of what's available would be good. I suspect that a lot of what I have overlaps with Henk's, but if I can fill in any gaps, I'll try to do so. Sorry about the spelling and dropped characters in my last post, BTW. Must fix this keyboard (right after I fix these fingers). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Dec 21 15:22:11 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: clueless eBay seller for today is: In-Reply-To: <200412212108.iBLL8PGn015247@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041221152552.00980840@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041221162211.0091a600@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:08 PM 12/21/04 -0800, Zane wrote: >> He certainly hasn't found your website, has he Al? At least he's not >> claiming that it's "complete and fully functional" like the seller of that >> recent F-series 1000 did. >> >> Joe > >I'd noticed that it's missing something from that back. That's not the card >cage is it? What is it missing? The I/O cards go in the rear and as you noticed there are no I/O cards in it. The memory and related cards go in the front under the switch panel and we can only wonder what's there (or not there!) I don't see the battery simulator plug that plugs into the rear so it's unlikely that it will power and and pass self-test but of course the seller only claimed that "it powers up". Not that that means much. You could remove the PSU and all the cards and the fans would still "power up". Anybody that buys anything like this with so little information is buying a real pig in a poke! About the only good thing about it is that the CPU card is under the chassis and most gold-scrappers miss them so MOST likely you will at least get the CPU card. Joe > > Zane > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Dec 21 15:38:54 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: id this HP-IB cable? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041221163854.00913630@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi All, Can anyone id this cable? It looks DEC-ish but it has fewer pins (24) than the DEC HP-IB cables. I keep finding these but I've never found them on the equipment that they're made for. Right now I have four of them, 2 are made from Belden cables, one for a HP cable and the other doesn't have a manufactures name. Thanks and Happy Holidays, Joe From GOOI at oce.nl Tue Dec 21 15:39:17 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Old Unibus PDP-11 XXDP diagnostics Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A01113444@gd-mail03.oce.nl> > Pete wrote: > ... when my department gets its big scanner, probably in January > (Sorry, Henk, it's not an Oce). I hate to go off-topic for a moment, but I can't resist here, I am very loyal / pro-minded to my employer :~) Does your scanner do 55 pages Letter or A4 size (1-sided per minute, or 27 ditto (2-sided) automatically at 600 DPI ? And besides, the software that moves the scanner carriage was entirely written by me! For the mechanics under us: the carriage accelerates to approx 1 m/s in 33 msec! Don't ask what happened after I made a mistake in the path calculation software and tried to run that code on the engineering prototype (way back in 1994) ...! I was not the only one unhappy with the results!! > Sorry about the spelling and dropped characters in my last post, BTW. > Must fix this keyboard (right after I fix these fingers). LOL, this (..) is typical "Pete humor". - Henk. From vcf at siconic.com Tue Dec 21 15:49:24 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Off-topic message confusion In-Reply-To: <41C88507.9060908@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Doc Shipley wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > > > >> Nonononono, Sellam! > >> > >> *I* am the moderator! > > > > > > So you're saying you'd be happy to wade through dozens of messages about > > my hairy ass? > > Dude, you're *already* showing your ass. What else would be new? So just to get this straight, you're saying that if I were to post, on average, say, 5 messages a day about my ass, describing it in all its glory, every inch of curve, every sphincter wrinkle, you would simply delete through them and not raise a stink (so to speak) over it? I doubt that. But if you're sincere then let me know and I'll be happy to send volume after volume of messages about my hairy ass. You just say the word, Doc. > I'm saying I was absent the day you were given the reins to this > list. As far as I can tell, Ron's definition of "permissible off-topic" > carries as much weight as yours, or mine for that matter. I disagree. > And, as usual, the carping about OT,OT! has generated more lines of > email than the query itself. No it hasn't. Ron's incredibly off-topic "Help me! I'm lame!" message generated around a dozen responses. At this point, if you respond to this message then you'll be responsible for making it longer. So, your call. And really, I've heard all your uninspired anti-Me rants before and, quite frankly, each subsequent one was as ineffective as the first, so don't bother. Gun/auto/whatever discussions have broken out before as a result of a thread that started in vintage computing but spiraled out of control usually due to some off-hand remark. Ron's message was specifically and unapologetically out of band for this list. It was started without regard to the other people here. That's rude and disrespectful. I don't go to an HTML discussion group and start asking if anyone has a boot disk for their Apple //c. That's the difference. Get a clue. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Dec 21 16:10:12 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: clueless eBay seller for today is: Message-ID: <200412212210.OAA18964@clulw009.amd.com> Hi From the looks of the back, it is one of the battery backed units as well. I suspect that the front panel lights come on but nothing works, like my unit did until I learned the resistor in the connector trick. Dwight >From: "Joe R." > > He certainly hasn't found your website, has he Al? At least he's not >claiming that it's "complete and fully functional" like the seller of that >recent F-series 1000 did. > > Joe > > > >At 08:59 AM 12/21/04 -0800, Al wrote: >> >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5150357271 >> >>"A shroud of mystery hangs over the history and specification of this >classic computer system." >> >>-- >> >>Good thing he wasn't trying to sell something was really WAS obscure. >> >> > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Dec 21 16:23:03 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Old Unibus PDP-11 XXDP diagnostics In-Reply-To: Gooijen H "RE: Old Unibus PDP-11 XXDP diagnostics" (Dec 21, 22:39) References: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A01113444@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Message-ID: <10412212223.ZM28825@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 21 2004, 22:39, Gooijen H wrote: > > Pete wrote: > > ... when my department gets its big scanner, probably in January > > (Sorry, Henk, it's not an Oce). > > I hate to go off-topic for a moment, but I can't resist here, > I am very loyal / pro-minded to my employer :~) > Does your scanner do 55 pages Letter or A4 size (1-sided per minute, > or 27 ditto (2-sided) automatically at 600 DPI ? No, I don't know the actual figures, but the one we had on eval seemed, subjectively, about 2/3 or maybe 3/4 of that speed. It's an HP, but I can't remember the model number either. You have to understand that it was a huge battle getting any scanner at all in our department! > And besides, the software that moves the scanner carriage was entirely > written by me! For the mechanics under us: the carriage accelerates > to approx 1 m/s in 33 msec! > Don't ask what happened after I made a mistake in the path calculation > software and tried to run that code on the engineering prototype (way > back in 1994) ...! I was not the only one unhappy with the results!! When I worked in CompSci, we got a big fast Oce scanner/copier, about 1997, I think. One of those that collects the output internally, safely away from fingers, because the paper goes fast enough to cut fingers off if they're not out of the way. I remember the first print job I sent it, a large A4 manual printed from a PDF file. I walked the length of the corridor to the print room, saw no output, and was slightly surprised -- for about 3 seconds, when a *large* block of paper was neatly deposited on the output tray. > LOL, this (..) is typical "Pete humor". (Yeah, I must do something about those () keys as well). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From acme at gbronline.com Tue Dec 21 16:51:48 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Off-topic message confusion References: Message-ID: <01f901c4e7af$a8574080$be4f0945@acme> Doc wrote: > > I'm saying I was absent the day you were given the reins to this > > list. As far as I can tell, Ron's definition of "permissible off-topic" > > carries as much weight as yours, or mine for that matter. Sellam replied: > I disagree. I intend to remain neutral in this discussion but I must ask you Sellam: what is your rationale for making the (apparent) claim that your opinion is more valuable, relevant, or whatever, than Ron's? Sounds kinda arrogant, actually, and doesn't seem to help your argument much. Later -- Glen 0/0 From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Dec 21 16:54:24 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Liberator 220. In-Reply-To: <26c11a640412201606767462a7@mail.gmail.com> References: <26c11a640412201606767462a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041221235424.6c50c1bc.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 00:06:07 +0000 Dan Williams wrote: > They also have a programmable front panel, with no instructions and > just three buttons. Does anyone know how this works. Have a look for a MMJ connector. Those gadgets usually have a serial console with some configuration prompt / menu. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Dec 21 18:03:21 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: id this HP-IB cable? In-Reply-To: "Joe R." "id this HP-IB cable?" (Dec 21, 16:38) References: <3.0.6.32.20041221163854.00913630@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <10412220003.ZM29011@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 21 2004, 16:38, Joe R. wrote: > Can anyone id this cable? > It looks DEC-ish but it > has fewer pins (24) than the DEC HP-IB cables. 24 pins makes sense for HP-IB/GP-IB, and the "piggy-back" connector looks right, but the other end doesn't look like the DEC GP-IB cable for my IBV-11, either. Is there a part number on either of those white labels that are visible near the ends? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Tue Dec 21 18:21:50 2004 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Philips/Magnavox VideoWriter Hacking??? Message-ID: <1103674910.19829.211287380@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hi all! I was just wondering if anyone on here knows what (if any) hacks have ever been done to a Philips/Magnavox VideoWriter? I was mainly wondering if anyone has ever been able to get any other operating system (namely CP/M) working on these boxes. David M. Vohs Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian Computer Collection: "Triumph": Commodore 64, 1802, 1541, Indus GT, FDD-1, GeoRAM 512, MPS-801. "Leela": Original Apple Macintosh, Imagewriter II. "Delorean": TI-99/4A, TI Speech Synthesizer. "Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer III. "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. "Boombox": Sharp PC-7000. "Butterfly": Tandy 200, PDD-2. "Shapeshifter": Epson QX-10, Comrex HDD, Titan graphics/MS-DOS board. "Scout": Otrona Attache. (prospective) "Pioneer": Apple LISA II (prospective) "Mercury": HP-85. (prospective) "Evolver": Commodore Amiga 2000 "TMA-1": Atari Portfolio, Memory Expander + From melamy at earthlink.net Tue Dec 21 18:27:09 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Another iPDS query In-Reply-To: References: <019d01c4e61d$d6c08dc0$372d083d@river> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041221192450.03e91eb0@mail.earthlink.net> I have one sitting in an iPDS system back in Virginia and I can take photos of it when I return in January. A schematic would be harder... best regards, Steve Thatcher At 10:52 AM 12/21/2004, Arlen Michaels wrote: >The recent thread about getting river's iPDS up and running has reminded me: > >Does anyone have a spare "Multimodule Adapter Board" for the Intel iPDS? >This is the adapter that allows iSBX cards (like bubble memory) to be added >to the iPDS cpu board. As far as I can tell, it has four iSBX connectors on >it, and plugs into J5 on the base processor board. If anyone has an extra, >or even a picture and schematic so I could make one by hand, please get in >touch. > >Thanks! >Arlen Michaels From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Dec 21 18:44:02 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Another iPDS query In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041221192450.03e91eb0@mail.earthlink.net> References: <019d01c4e61d$d6c08dc0$372d083d@river> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041221194402.0097e270@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I'll bet that you'll be asking for some iSBX Bubble Memory cards next! Joe > >At 10:52 AM 12/21/2004, Arlen Michaels wrote: >>The recent thread about getting river's iPDS up and running has reminded me: >> >>Does anyone have a spare "Multimodule Adapter Board" for the Intel iPDS? >>This is the adapter that allows iSBX cards (like bubble memory) to be added >>to the iPDS cpu board. As far as I can tell, it has four iSBX connectors on >>it, and plugs into J5 on the base processor board. If anyone has an extra, >>or even a picture and schematic so I could make one by hand, please get in >>touch. >> >>Thanks! >>Arlen Michaels > > From jgevaryahu at hotmail.com Tue Dec 21 18:53:07 2004 From: jgevaryahu at hotmail.com (Jonathan Gevaryahu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: wanted: Votrax PSS manual Message-ID: I recently obtained a Votrax Personal Speech System which unfortunately for me, did not include the power supply or the manual. Thanks to Robert Stek's informative post (http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-February/010608.html) on this list in Feb '03, I am in the process of constructing a power supply for it. (i.e. I eBayed a 28VAC transformer and am using an 18.5VDC laptop power supply instead of 20VDC which HOPEFULLY won't hurt anything, until I find a satisfactory 20VDC power supply, and am cannibalizing a DIN-5 connector from a dead keyboard) However, I still lack a copy of the PSS's manual, so I can't figure out how to set the various device modes, to control the AY-3-8910 audio generator chip, etc. If anyone here has the manual for the Votrax Personal Speech System and has some means to scan or digitize it (a digital camera will work) can they post or send me a copy of the images? It would be very much appreciated. Jonathan Gevaryahu P.S. I'm sorry if this message gets onto the list multiple times, I initially sent it to cctech from my comcast account with a different return address, and I thought it had been 'moderated to death'. So I sent it to cctalk instead, with the same account... and my message still never showed up. (I guess classiccmp.org is rejecting all comcast mail as spam or something nasty like that) So now, I'm sending it through hotmail, and I HOPE it gets through... From vcf at siconic.com Tue Dec 21 20:01:33 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: Stupid TI power supply In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > > > But across which pins??? The power connector on the terminal has three > > > pins. Which ones want voltage and which one wants ground? > > You can almost certainly figure all this out from you now-smashed > P.S. Smack it to smaller bits so's you can see how it's > physically wired. It's even possible thr 3rd pin isn't used, > tied to one of the others, ground, etc. If there's only two > wires in the cable, etc. > > I'll try to look at mine tonight. Ok, I finally got around to figuring out this power supply. I've found that the center pin on the connector is indeed connected to the center tap on the transformer, with the outer pins each connected to either end of the transformer. There is .3 ohms between the end taps, and .7 ohms between the center tap and either end tap. So I suppose this means there's 20VAC across the outer pins and ~10VAC between either outer pin and the center pin? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Dec 21 20:02:17 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:30 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700 power supplies In-Reply-To: <13e.8a6ff59.2ef2f879@aol.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 CPUMECH@aol.com wrote: > Call Dataterm they still have original working TI 703/707 power supplies or > AC adapters p/n2310442-0001. Probably get 0ne for $10 plus shipping. Indeed, they do ($10.50 plus shipping). Thanks for the tip! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Dec 21 20:37:00 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Paging Jay West In-Reply-To: <10412212117.ZM28644@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A0111343F@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20041221203528.023aeb08@mail.ubanproductions.com> Hi Jay, I've sent a couple of emails to you at "Jay West" from a couple of different paths and I haven't seemed to get any response. Am I being filtered or ignored or both? --tnx --tom From allain at panix.com Tue Dec 21 21:03:33 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: id this HP-IB cable? References: <3.0.6.32.20041221163854.00913630@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <10412220003.ZM29011@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <003f01c4e7d2$d397b5e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > > It looks DEC-ish but it has fewer pins (24) than the > DEC HP-IB cables. Doesn't match any DEC cable I know about.* I could imagine something HP did for Hospital equipment, IE out of our normal stomping grounds. *But then, I've never seen DEC HP-IB. John A. From appleto at gmail.com Tue Dec 21 23:03:43 2004 From: appleto at gmail.com (Ronald Wayne) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Off-topic message confusion In-Reply-To: <01f901c4e7af$a8574080$be4f0945@acme> References: <01f901c4e7af$a8574080$be4f0945@acme> Message-ID: Seeming as I do little more than read this list my comments may be a tad unwelcome, but ... What the heck is wrong with an off-topic message on an off-topic list? I can see anything "political" being out of bounds. That stuff generates flame wars, and flame wars are distracting. But the only "political" issue popping up in these off-topic threads is what is on-topic/off-topic and what is off-topic/off-topic. So while the original question (at least in the case of the angelfire incident) was quite innocent, the blathering about it being off-topic (which followed it) was not. On the issue of using Google: I've found that most people use it and simply have no luck. Now some people have the tendancy to flip through all 100 pages of results, while some people will resort to asking questions. Just because I favour the former doesn't mean that I should discourage the latter. There are far too many people in the world asking questions simply because they feel intimidated by the consquences. Furthermore, a well placed question has the opportunity to generate discussion. There is far too little of that out there too. (Sorry, but I'm an educator and my views are highly biased. ;) ) Now you may be saying that a person who knows how to use Google will not turn up 1000 or more results on a search, or they will know how to refine the results if they do. I disagree. Your success with Google has far more to do with how well you understand what you are searching for. For example: if I were to search for something on the Apple II, I would find what I need in minutes. Flip that around and ask me to search for particular information on the PDP-11, and I would be completely hopeless. Because I know considerably more about the former than the latter, I am considerably more successful in finding information about the former than the latter. Anyhow, back into lurk mode I go ... From appleto at gmail.com Tue Dec 21 23:05:23 2004 From: appleto at gmail.com (Ronald Wayne) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Off-topic message confusion In-Reply-To: References: <01f901c4e7af$a8574080$be4f0945@acme> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:03:43 -0500, Ronald Wayne wrote: > I should discourage the latter. There are far too many people in the > world asking questions simply because they feel intimidated by the > consquences. Furthermore, a well placed question has the opportunity Sorry, but that should read 'far too few people' From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Dec 21 23:07:04 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: tractor-feed paper sizes? Message-ID: <59318.64.60.242.226.1103692024.squirrel@64.60.242.226> Does anyone happen to know anything about obscure sizes of tractor-feed paper? We've now got the console typewriter of the PDP-1 at the Computer History Museum working correctly. It is an IBM Model B electric typewriter modified by Soroban Engineering for use as an I/O device. Soroban added an encoder and a decoder mechanism, using switches, solenoids, bails, etc. There was a bent leaf switch contact that resulted in incorrect character codes on input, and two stuck solenoids that resulted in incorrect characters typed. Anyhow, the typewriter will accept individual sheets, but it also has tractors for continuous forms. But the distance between the sprockets is approximately 13 1/8", which is narrower than the sprocket spacing of standard line-printer paper. A Google search reveals plenty of places that sell 9 1/2" wide or 14 7/8" wide continuous forms, but are other sizes readily available? Thanks! Eric Smith volunteer, Computer History Museum PDP-1 Restoration Project http://pdp-1.org/ From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Dec 21 23:14:43 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: tractor-feed paper sizes? In-Reply-To: <59318.64.60.242.226.1103692024.squirrel@64.60.242.226> Message-ID: > tractors for continuous forms. But the distance between the sprockets > is approximately 13 1/8", which is narrower than the sprocket spacing > of standard line-printer paper. > > A Google search reveals plenty of places that sell 9 1/2" wide or > 14 7/8" wide continuous forms, but are other sizes readily available? It would not be terribly hard to cut down the larger size. You will need to bug a print shop for their paper chopper and paper drill. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From news at computercollector.com Tue Dec 21 23:27:10 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Off-topic message confusion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041222052710.51719.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> As I understand it, just because cctalk isn't the 100% tech list doesn't make it okay for everything and anything to be off-topic. CCtalk just means that the discussion of classic computers needs not be completely technical -- i.e., this is where we have discussions about non-technical parts of computer history, such as people, trends, companies, whatever. So it's still ON the topic of classic computing -- again, just not AS technical-only as the cctech version. So there's a big difference between being "not ENTIRELY technical" vs. being "completely off-topic" -- cctalk is supposed to be the former, not the latter. I intend this comment to no one in particular, since I and everyone else has had an off-topic comment at some point, but, isn't the above paragraph obvious? I think the only real problem with cctalk is when the comments get too personal -- i.e., two people disagree about some classic computing topic, then a third person says "yeah well person #1 wears ugly baseball hats", and then there are 48 absurd comments where everyone feels obligated to give their opinion about baseball hats, from which there are 10 other discussions about sports, 5 about hats, and meanwhile the poor folks who just wanted to have a nice discussion about whatever didn't get to do so. History shows us that eventually, after a week or so, these off-shoot topics do go away. We do all seem to police ourselves, though not as speedily as we should. A modest proposal: maybe there SHOULD be a serious group of moderators. --- Ronald Wayne wrote: > On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:03:43 -0500, Ronald Wayne wrote: > > I should discourage the latter. There are far too many people in the > > world asking questions simply because they feel intimidated by the > > consquences. Furthermore, a well placed question has the opportunity > > Sorry, but that should read 'far too few people' > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 620 readers and counting! From appleto at gmail.com Wed Dec 22 00:12:23 2004 From: appleto at gmail.com (Ronald Wayne) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Off-topic message confusion In-Reply-To: <20041222052710.51719.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041222052710.51719.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 21:27:10 -0800 (PST), Computer Collector Newsletter wrote: > As I understand it, just because cctalk isn't the 100% tech list doesn't make > it okay for everything and anything to be off-topic. I just checked with the cctalk web page, and would like to suggest that the words "off-topic" be axed completely from the description. The list has clearly defined topics: The general discussion list is appropriate for discussion of the following topics: * classic computer hardware, software, and documentation. We define "classic" as "at least ten years old, plus or minus cool factor"; * computing in general ten or more years ago; and, * fringe topics relevant to the pursuit of the hobby, such as electronics, moving heavy equipment, and cleaning techniques. From williams.dan at gmail.com Wed Dec 22 05:24:14 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: tractor-feed paper sizes? In-Reply-To: <59318.64.60.242.226.1103692024.squirrel@64.60.242.226> References: <59318.64.60.242.226.1103692024.squirrel@64.60.242.226> Message-ID: <26c11a640412220324352543fe@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 21:07:04 -0800 (PST), Eric Smith wrote: > Does anyone happen to know anything about obscure sizes of tractor-feed > paper? > > We've now got the console typewriter of the PDP-1 at the Computer History > Museum working correctly. It is an IBM Model B electric typewriter > modified by Soroban Engineering for use as an I/O device. Soroban added > an encoder and a decoder mechanism, using switches, solenoids, bails, etc. > > There was a bent leaf switch contact that resulted in incorrect character > codes on input, and two stuck solenoids that resulted in incorrect > characters typed. > > Anyhow, the typewriter will accept individual sheets, but it also has > tractors for continuous forms. But the distance between the sprockets > is approximately 13 1/8", which is narrower than the sprocket spacing > of standard line-printer paper. > > A Google search reveals plenty of places that sell 9 1/2" wide or > 14 7/8" wide continuous forms, but are other sizes readily available? > > Thanks! > Eric Smith > volunteer, Computer History Museum PDP-1 Restoration Project > http://pdp-1.org/ > > 13 1/8 paper is called "foolscap folio". I had a quick check on google, but I couldn't find if this was American or English foolscap. But it might be easier to ask for it by name then by size. Dan From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Wed Dec 22 08:02:38 2004 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Abandonware site charges for downloads In-Reply-To: <0ab101c4e6e4$71438980$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <0ab101c4e6e4$71438980$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <41C97E7E.5020802@sbcglobal.net> John Allain wrote: >>Opinions? > > > Looks like an attempt to draw skeptical attention away > from CommodoreOne(?) right now. Seems to me if this > project has gone so mainstream (NYTimes,QVC), that > there would have been a Lawyer's checkout of propriety > by now. > Otherwise we might stop seeing Jeri all of a sudden. > There is also the mystery of why the Dutch case design > matches the USA/China one... My guess is that they're probably just re-selling the one Jeri made for Mammoth... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From Arno_1983 at gmx.de Wed Dec 22 08:05:41 2004 From: Arno_1983 at gmx.de (Arno Kletzander) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: HP 7908/7912 head locking Message-ID: <25120.1103724341@www47.gmx.net> Hi everybody, the information technology "museum" at Erlangen University (for which I work part-time) will be aquiring two HP 1000 systems in the near future, an A600+ in a 16-slot cardcage with a "piano-seat" disk/tape unit (7912P) and an A700 in a big cabinet with rackmount storage (7908 and 7912). I'd really like to have them arrive undamaged. As noted in the archives, there should be a shipping lock on these drives (see http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-April/013531.html). We've already received the documentation for the system, but obviously the now important parts (Disc Drive Installation Manuals 07908-90902 and 07912-90902) are missing. Some Google activation brought up several sellers of used drives along with a few classiccmp threads, but no online copy of the manual. Can somebody please tell me how to properly prepare the drives for transport? From what I read here, they're not very reliable anyway, but one doesn't need to make matters worse. They're in a building just across the yard, but as I always need to coordinate three parties to do something there, it would be best to know what to do *before* actually poking around in the cabinets. Your instructions (or redirections to web resources) will be sincerely appreciated. -- Arno Kletzander Stud. Hilfskraft Informatik Sammlung Erlangen www.iser.uni-erlangen.de +++ Sparen Sie mit GMX DSL +++ http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl AKTION für Wechsler: DSL-Tarife ab 3,99 EUR/Monat + Startguthaben From arlen at acm.org Wed Dec 22 10:24:59 2004 From: arlen at acm.org (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Another iPDS query In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041221194402.0097e270@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: on 21/12/04 7:44 PM, Joe R. wrote: > I'll bet that you'll be asking for some iSBX Bubble Memory cards next! on 21/12/04 7:27 PM, Steve Thatcher wrote: > I have one sitting in an iPDS system back in Virginia and I can take photos > of it when I return in January. A schematic would be harder... >> At 10:52 AM 12/21/2004, Arlen Michaels wrote: >>> >>> Does anyone have a spare "Multimodule Adapter Board" for the Intel iPDS? >>> This is the adapter that allows iSBX cards (like bubble memory) to be added I actually have the Bubble Memory card but not the necessary adapter, hence the frustration! Thanks Steve, a picture would be a start. If anyone can send me a schematic from the iPDS tech manual, I could probably slap an adapter together. I don't even know if there's any electronics on the adapter board-- I suspect it might be little more than a cross-wiring job. Thanks, Arlen Michaels From melamy at earthlink.net Wed Dec 22 11:12:38 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Another iPDS query In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20041221194402.0097e270@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041222120954.03eceeb0@mail.earthlink.net> there is a surprising amount of circuitry on the adapter board (at least what I recall from memory). Figure that Intel would have put whatever interface buffers were necessary. The adapter board connects to both the main board and the optional processor board. I sent Al schematics of the main board, but I had not copies of the optional processor board or the adapter board... >I actually have the Bubble Memory card but not the necessary adapter, hence >the frustration! > >Thanks Steve, a picture would be a start. If anyone can send me a schematic >from the iPDS tech manual, I could probably slap an adapter together. I >don't even know if there's any electronics on the adapter board-- I suspect >it might be little more than a cross-wiring job. > >Thanks, >Arlen Michaels From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Dec 22 11:13:37 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Another iPDS query Message-ID: <200412221713.JAA19453@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Joe If you have any extras, I'd like on also ;) Dwight >From: "Joe R." > > I'll bet that you'll be asking for some iSBX Bubble Memory cards next! > > Joe > > >> >>At 10:52 AM 12/21/2004, Arlen Michaels wrote: >>>The recent thread about getting river's iPDS up and running has reminded me: >>> >>>Does anyone have a spare "Multimodule Adapter Board" for the Intel iPDS? >>>This is the adapter that allows iSBX cards (like bubble memory) to be added >>>to the iPDS cpu board. As far as I can tell, it has four iSBX connectors on >>>it, and plugs into J5 on the base processor board. If anyone has an extra, >>>or even a picture and schematic so I could make one by hand, please get in >>>touch. >>> >>>Thanks! >>>Arlen Michaels >> >> > > From dmabry at mich.com Wed Dec 22 11:30:50 2004 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Another iPDS query In-Reply-To: <200412221713.JAA19453@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200412221713.JAA19453@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <41C9AF4A.3000707@mich.com> Yeah, Joe. Get them out and dust 'em off!!! Let's put some of your "stash" to work! Oops, I better watch what I say. You'll want me to "put up or shut up" and get those cp/m bubble drivers working. ;) Dave Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >Hi Joe > If you have any extras, I'd like on also ;) >Dwight > > > > >>From: "Joe R." >> >> I'll bet that you'll be asking for some iSBX Bubble Memory cards next! >> >> Joe >> >> >> >> >>>At 10:52 AM 12/21/2004, Arlen Michaels wrote: >>> >>> >>>>The recent thread about getting river's iPDS up and running has reminded me: >>>> >>>>Does anyone have a spare "Multimodule Adapter Board" for the Intel iPDS? >>>>This is the adapter that allows iSBX cards (like bubble memory) to be added >>>>to the iPDS cpu board. As far as I can tell, it has four iSBX connectors on >>>>it, and plugs into J5 on the base processor board. If anyone has an extra, >>>>or even a picture and schematic so I could make one by hand, please get in >>>>touch. >>>> >>>>Thanks! >>>>Arlen Michaels >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > > > From arlen at acm.org Wed Dec 22 12:16:55 2004 From: arlen at acm.org (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Another iPDS query In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041222120954.03eceeb0@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: on 22/12/04 12:12 PM, Steve Thatcher wrote: > there is a surprising amount of circuitry on the adapter board (at least > what I recall from memory). Figure that Intel would have put whatever > interface buffers were necessary. The adapter board connects to both the > main board and the optional processor board. Hmmm. Guess I was being optimistic. Well, since I have a pair of the Bubble Memory iSBX cards, I'd swap one of them for the elusive adapter card and the optional processor card, if anyone has spare iPDS bits to send my way. Better to get one bubble running in my iPDS than to have two bubbles just sitting idle on the shelf. Arlen Michaels From aek at spies.com Wed Dec 22 13:10:06 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: HP 7908/7912 head locking Message-ID: <20041222191006.879124B28@spies.com> I've put a scan of the 791x installation manual up at www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/disc/07912-90902_791x_Inst_Jun86.pdf From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Dec 22 13:21:20 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: tractor-feed paper sizes? In-Reply-To: <26c11a640412220324352543fe@mail.gmail.com> References: <59318.64.60.242.226.1103692024.squirrel@64.60.242.226> <26c11a640412220324352543fe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <62609.64.139.41.130.1103743280.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Dan wrote: > 13 1/8 paper is called "foolscap folio". I had a quick check on > google, but I couldn't find if this was American or English foolscap. > But it might be easier to ask for it by name then by size. Thanks! That might not be what we need, but it's worth investigating further. On the PDP-1 console typewriter (Soroban), the spacing between the sprockets is 13 1/8", but the paper itself must be wider than that. I'm guessing at least 13 7/8". Now that I know what to search for, I see that most sources describe foolscap folio as 13 1/2 by 8 1/2. I think we'd be happy to find anything we can feed through it, but ideally we'd like paper about 11 inches long. It occurred to me after leaving last night's team meeting that I should have also measured the spacing between teeth on one sprocket, as that also might not match normal line-printer paper. Eric From GFisher at tristonecapital.com Wed Dec 22 13:58:09 2004 From: GFisher at tristonecapital.com (Gary Fisher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: wanted: Votrax PSS manual Message-ID: For what it's worth there is a manual for the Votrax Type N Talk at the URL below, I believe they used the same speech chip (SC-01). Crap, I had a Votrax PSS about 4 years ago and sold it for pennies on the dollar! http://members.aol.com/itsancientpics3/votraxmanual.htm There is also a neat piece of DOS software to read the screen through a PSS at: http://park.org/Guests/Trace/pavilion/dosshar1.htm Sorry, that's all I can come up with. Gary Fisher This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Unless otherwise stated, opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the author and are not endorsed by the author's employer. Original Message Follows: Message: 35 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 19:53:07 -0500 From: "Jonathan Gevaryahu" Subject: wanted: Votrax PSS manual To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I recently obtained a Votrax Personal Speech System which unfortunately for me, did not include the power supply or the manual. Thanks to Robert Stek's informative post (http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-February/010608.html) on this list in Feb '03, I am in the process of constructing a power supply for it. (i.e. I eBayed a 28VAC transformer and am using an 18.5VDC laptop power supply instead of 20VDC which HOPEFULLY won't hurt anything, until I find a satisfactory 20VDC power supply, and am cannibalizing a DIN-5 connector from a dead keyboard) However, I still lack a copy of the PSS's manual, so I can't figure out how to set the various device modes, to control the AY-3-8910 audio generator chip, etc. If anyone here has the manual for the Votrax Personal Speech System and has some means to scan or digitize it (a digital camera will work) can they post or send me a copy of the images? It would be very much appreciated. Jonathan Gevaryahu From Watzman at neo.rr.com Wed Dec 15 18:36:46 2004 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: VB3 Video Board (was Shugart 850's) In-Reply-To: <200412160046.iBG0kSjh002484@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <200412160036.iBG0ahlw015200@ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Tom Jennings, do you have access to the manual on the SSM VB3 video board? I'd love to get that scanned and into the archives. Barry Watzman Watzman@neo.rr.com From ac998 at lafn.org Wed Dec 15 22:29:11 2004 From: ac998 at lafn.org (Mike Leavitt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Amiga 3000 Mother Board replacement In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041215215031.03189460@pop-server> Message-ID: Hello Gene On 12/16/04, you wrote: > > I have a friend with an Amiga 3000. It appears that the backup > battery has leaked on the mother board causing it to no longer > function. > > Does anyone know where to find a replacement motherboard? > > Any other suggestions would be appreciated. c.s.a.marketplace, Amibench or Ebay. I doubt Software Hut has them, and if they do, you will pay a premium price. I bought one off c.s.a.marketplace, and one of the CIA's has already blown. PITA tearing it down and pulling the CIA's off my spare motherboard to replace it. Anyone know if it is the left or the right one looking from the front of the case, that controls the mouse? Regards -- Mike Leavitt ac998@lafn.org From trixter at oldskool.org Thu Dec 16 00:23:36 2004 From: trixter at oldskool.org (Jim Leonard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41C129E8.3090103@oldskool.org> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Are you allowed to use more modern versions of DOS (i.e. post 3.3)? If > so, why not use a version that has SmartDrive built in? Better yet, use > Speedstor or some equally capable caching utility. Or will caching not > work for your purposes? Yes, MS-DOS 6.22 is on there, but SMARTDRV requires XMS and my 5150 is the original 8088 (no XMS possible on an 8088 unless you have an EMS memory board and PC DOS 7.x or higher and a hacked driver). Interesting note: A 4.77MHz machine is so slow that I could actually benchmark that disk accessess were faster in 6.22 over 3.3. A 2-minute test completed 3 seconds faster under 6.22, so even though it takes up more RAM that my program was using to cache manually, I kept it. -- Jim Leonard (trixter@oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.5.4 - Release Date: 12/15/2004 From trixter at oldskool.org Thu Dec 16 00:26:47 2004 From: trixter at oldskool.org (Jim Leonard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? In-Reply-To: References: <20041208203412.G49412@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <41C12AA7.7070203@oldskool.org> 9000 VAX wrote: > XT's do not have more than 640K memory, thus SMARTDRV is not very useful. Moreso, I am streaming continuously off of disk in my application, so caching provides no benefit whatsoever (data is read only once, not re-read lots of times). I could really use an EMS board, though -- I could pre-load my data into it... -- Jim Leonard (trixter@oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.5.4 - Release Date: 12/15/2004 From trixter at oldskool.org Thu Dec 16 00:29:07 2004 From: trixter at oldskool.org (Jim Leonard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? In-Reply-To: <20041209132148.N65479@shell.lmi.net> References: <20041208203412.G49412@shell.lmi.net> <20041209132148.N65479@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <41C12B33.6090500@oldskool.org> Fred Cisin wrote: > I have a DTC 3250 (SCSI + floppy) with manual AND DRIVER DISK!, and a > Future Domain TMC-840. Both have ROMs (EPROMs?) They are available if > they will help. > ... > I have had up to 8meg of "Expanded" memory on XTs. > I have a tote full of TallTree JRAM, JLASER, etc. stuff. > I don't know what the max was on the later LIM (Lotus Intel MicroSoft) > EMS (Expanded Memory Specification). Fred, I would love to experiment with these to see if I can get my animation rate up to 60Hz (currently 30Hz with some buffering) on my 5150. Please email me off-list to discuss terms. I have SCSI disk so that's an option; I would also love to experiment with EMS (I wrote EMS routines many moons ago so I know how the boards work). -- Jim Leonard (trixter@oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.5.4 - Release Date: 12/15/2004 From trixter at oldskool.org Thu Dec 16 00:35:52 2004 From: trixter at oldskool.org (Jim Leonard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? In-Reply-To: <41B98E7D.7893.27EA0E63@localhost> References: <20041208203412.G49412@shell.lmi.net> <41B98E7D.7893.27EA0E63@localhost> Message-ID: <41C12CC8.3050206@oldskool.org> Hans Franke wrote: > I may have to disagree. Without EMS, XTs don't have more than > 992K of RAM. At least my XT systems did usualy offer at least > 704K of continous RAM plus whatever was possible between the You must have had a clone where system RAM and video RAM shared space, like a Tandy 1000 or Amstrad. Regular IBM 5150 had usuable memory for the first 640K, and then you could "use" the video RAM on a Hercules or CGA card if you were in text mode and only using one page, but that was it. > cards. The 704K where supported by default, while for the mem > inbetween a little programm at startup to relink the memory > had to run. works fine wit ANY dos version. Only on your hardware :) > If you had a VGA in your XT (8 Bit VGA was available), some > 736K (708 as largest chunk) where possible without any addon > memory card, if you restricted yourself to colour (or 704+32K > when using Monocrome :) Now I think you're confusing XTs with 386s -- Once the 386 was out, you could remap how memory was laid out. I remember getting 736K of DOS RAM using Quarterdeck's QEMM on my 386/16 with a VGA card... but that wasn't possible on an XT. > And speaking of cache utils, there where quite some available > for DOS, that could run on XTs - all you had to do is give up > main mem :) Yep, tried that too :-) -- Jim Leonard (trixter@oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.5.4 - Release Date: 12/15/2004 From lord_nightmare at users.sourceforge.net Fri Dec 17 15:26:16 2004 From: lord_nightmare at users.sourceforge.net (Jonathan Gevaryahu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Votrax PSS Manual Message-ID: <41C34EF8.3090403@users.sf.net> I recently obtained a Votrax PSS which did not include the power supply or the manual. Thanks to Robert Stek's informative post (http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-February/010608.html) on this list in feb '03, I am in the process of constructing a power supply for it. However, I still need a copy of the manual, so I can figure out how to set the various modes of the device, and control the AY-3-8910 audio generator chip. If anyone has the manual for the Votrax Personal Sound System and has some means to scan or digitize it (a digital camera will work) can they send me a copy of the images? It would be much appreciated. Jonathan Gevaryahu lord_nightmare_@t_users.sf.net (remove the _@t_ and replace with @ to demangle the address) From trixter at oldskool.org Fri Dec 17 20:42:19 2004 From: trixter at oldskool.org (Jim Leonard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: 8-bit ISA SCSI (was Re: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150?) In-Reply-To: <00f201c4dfa6$900db880$ce4f0945@acme> References: <20041208203412.G49412@shell.lmi.net> <20041209132148.N65479@shell.lmi.net> <00f201c4dfa6$900db880$ce4f0945@acme> Message-ID: <41C3990B.9050605@oldskool.org> I've ordered one, thanks! I'll benchmark it to see how it performs against a WD1002 w/ST-225. Glen Goodwin wrote: > As usual, I'm coming into this conversation late, but for those > who are interested, you can still buy Rancho RT-1000B 8-bit > ISA SCSI controllers for $15, brand new with a 90-day warranty: > http://www.hitechcafe.com/eshop/product.asp?dept_id=4&sku=RT1000B-2 > > I used these extensively years ago, and built hundreds of Win 3.1 and > Win 95 machines with them. They are bootable, and used to include the > driver > diskette (I still have some of the diskettes -- as well as a few of the > controllers). Remarkably, I never, ever saw one fail, and they worked > with every (small) SCSI hard drive and CD-ROM I ever tried with them. > > Until a couple of months ago, I was still using one with a 50MB drive in > the machine we used for a cash register in our shop. > > And, now that I recall, I've done a number of data transfers from > XT clones to newer machines for customers by sticking an RT-1000B, > with a small hard drive attached, into the XT clone, xcopy-ing the data > from an ST-225, then moving the controller and the SCSI drive to the > newer machine and reversing the process. > > Later -- > > Glen > 0/0 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Fred Cisin > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 4:40 PM > Subject: Re: Possible to speed up I/O subsystem of 5150? > > > >>On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, 9000 VAX wrote: >> >>>There are 8 bit SCSI controllers too. Once I sold two to one guy for >>>$10. Both used NCR 53c90, both had ROM and were bootable. >> >>I have a DTC 3250 (SCSI + floppy) with manual AND DRIVER DISK!, and a >>Future Domain TMC-840. Both have ROMs (EPROMs?) They are available if >>they will help. >>(I found them a few days ago while looking for my ST-01s (another thread); >>Some book or magazine had had source code for a stand-alone CD-ROM driver >>using the ST-01, and I had gotten a few to play with many years ago.) >> >> >> >>>>SMARTDRV was bundled with Windoze 3.10, and will work with >>>>some of the <3.30 DOS versions. >>>>But you need to use 3.31 or newer to have any partitions >>>>larger than 32M. >>> >>>XT's do not have more than 640K memory, thus SMARTDRV is not very > > useful. > >>But wouldn't a few hundred K of cache be helpful? >> >>While it's true that XTs can not have more than 640K of REAL memory >>(actually 1M minus some overhead with some hardware and software hacks), >>not even HIMEM, and certainly no XMS (Extended Memory Specification), >>I have had up to 8meg of "Expanded" memory on XTs. >>I have a tote full of TallTree JRAM, JLASER, etc. stuff. >>I don't know what the max was on the later LIM (Lotus Intel MicroSoft) >>EMS (Expanded Memory Specification). >> >>-- >>Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com >> -- Jim Leonard (trixter@oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.5.4 - Release Date: 12/15/2004 From jdbryan at acm.org Sat Dec 18 17:14:25 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Got a HP 2648. Now what? Message-ID: <200412182314.iBINEPpF011196@mail.bcpl.net> Bob, On Thu Dec 9, 2004, you wrote: > Its kinda odd how these terminals 'wake-up' with the text input > directed to the graphical display rather than the alpha display layer. That shouldn't happen unless the Keyboard Interface PCA is strapped for "compatibility mode." Open the unit, pull the Keyboard PCA, and check the DIP switches at the top of the card. Switches P and Q should be set to 0 (closed) for normal operation. With both closed, the terminal should power up in alpha text mode. Then it may be switched to graphics text via an escape sequence or by the keyboard TEXT key, as desired. (I have an HP 2647A. P and/or Q are set to emulate a Textronix graphics terminal.) -- Dave From korioko at freeuk.com Sun Dec 19 15:18:37 2004 From: korioko at freeuk.com (scuzz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Amiga 3000 Mother Board replacement In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041215215031.03189460@pop-server> Message-ID: Hello Gene On 16/12/04, you wrote: > > I have a friend with an Amiga 3000. It appears that the backup battery has > leaked on the mother board causing it to no longer function. > > Does anyone know where to find a replacement motherboard? > > Any other suggestions would be appreciated. > Sorry for the late response. Have you tried placing a wanted add on Amibench. The link is on my website if you don't have it. Look in LINKS on the menu. http://www.scuzz.org.uk/amiga/a_amiga_inframe.htm I found German Ebay much better for getting A3000 and A4000 stuff, though I've never had any luck with motherboards, I just finish up with whole computers. Regards scuzz Amiga A1200 Blizzard 1230IV - YAM generated mail http://www.scuzz.org.uk/ From sml49 at comcast.net Sun Dec 19 19:42:10 2004 From: sml49 at comcast.net (Seth Lewin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Macintosh collector groups? In-Reply-To: <200412191802.iBJI05jn029550@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Michael.. You might try posting them in the both the "free" area and "computer" area on Craigslist (www.craigslist.org); that might work. The IIsi has pretty much no value - ie: I doubt anyone would pay anything for one beyond the cost of shipping unless it has one or another of the more interesting PDS cards or adapters (does it?). I have quite a few si's that I've picked up at the local recycling depot. The 7200 is a more useful machine which is still upgradable. What comes with them by way of peripherals/ keyboards/ old sofware/ whatnot? I've been keeping a double handful of older Macs around here and the software to run 'em just in case some day down the line when I'm old and gray I suddenly have the urge to run PageMaker v. 2, or even Excel 1.04 (all 170K of it)...or the original MacPaint. Seth Lewin > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 13:18:55 -0500 > From: Michael > Subject: Macintosh collector groups? > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <41C4748F.6050100@postal.lionsden.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Howdy all, > > I have two Macs, a Mac IIsi and 7200, I would like to get rid of. Does > anyone have any recommendation for a Mac collectors group that might > have some individuals interested in these machines? Listings for these > machines on both Ebay and Vintage Marketplace have yeilded no takers. > > Thanks, > > -- Michael From nbreeden2 at comcast.net Sun Dec 19 20:17:15 2004 From: nbreeden2 at comcast.net (Neil Breeden) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: FET Cross-reference - a bit off-topic Message-ID: <200412200239.iBK2dijd031498@huey.classiccmp.org> I'm in the middle of some repair work on an older Heathkit O-Scope model IO-102, the vertical board uses an N-Channel FET (Q1 - EL131 - Heathkit part number 417-241) which has become very thermal. I picked up a replacement from a local electronics distributor however the crossed NTE part simply doesn't work in the circuit. (NTE cross shows an NTE133 as the cross for the EL131). I've tried a couple NTE133s and an MPF105 as well, all work the same in the circuit but don't work correctly. Does anyone know of an exact EL131 replacement, know if the ECG312 really is a good replacement or even better know where I can get a Heathkit replacement part. Digikey, Mouser etc. all don't recognize the EL131 part number. Thanks -Neil From klemens.krause at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Mon Dec 20 04:44:43 2004 From: klemens.krause at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (Klemens Krause) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: question re HP 264x terminals In-Reply-To: <000001c4e325$c094f860$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> References: <000001c4e325$c094f860$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> Message-ID: <41C6AD1B.3060202@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> Jack Rubin wrote: > Which HP 264x terminals used 8008 cpus? I know that the 2640 and 2644 did - > but did the 2648 or any others in the series also use it? What is the HP p/n > for the 8008 in this application? As far as I know only the 2640 and 2644 used the 8008. Some HP p/n from those Terminals: 1820-1219 TR 1602 B USART 1820-1221 D 8008-1 1820-1288 MMH 0026 CL two phase MOS Clock Driver 1816-0612 MMI : Char. Gen. Roman upCase [24] Terminal 2644 A 1816-0613 MMI : Char. Gen. Roman loCase [24] Terminal 2644 A Firmware ROMs 1818-0157 EA 4900 masked Terminal 2644A 1818-0158 EA 4900 masked Terminal 2644A 1818-0159 EA 4900 masked Terminal 2644A 1818-0160 EA 4900 masked Terminal 2644A 1818-0161 EA 4900 masked Terminal 2644A 1818-0162 EA 4900 masked Terminal 2644A 1818-0176 EA 4900 masked Terminal 2644A Those numbers come from my own terminals. Other 2644 may have newer firmware ROMs with other partnumbers. There were also different interface cards with maybe different USARTs. Also I don't know, if for example ROMs of same types and maskrevisions but different manufacturers (EA, Mostek, MMI) had different partnumbers. Klemens -- ---------------------------------------------- Klemens Krause Universitaet Stuttgart / Inst. f. Softwaretechnologie Universitaetsstr. 38 / 70569 Stuttgart Tel.: 0711/7816 341 From laurie at pnc.com.au Mon Dec 20 07:59:49 2004 From: laurie at pnc.com.au (Laurie Boshell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Compaticard IV software. Message-ID: <003101c4e69c$2cc4acf0$ac9afea9@superior> Hi Nico, I'm in Australia. I'm looking for drivers for my Compaticard IV. I found this on the net: >Mon Aug 11 02:07:01 2003 a.. Previous message: Compaticard IV Master Diskette b.. Next message: TIL308 readout c.. Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- From: "David C. Jenner" To: "Classic Computer Moderated List" Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 9:47 PM Subject: Compaticard IV Master Diskette > > Note that I'm not talking about the Uniform software package, but > if it were available, I'd be interested in it, too! > On its way Nico CAN YOU HELP ME ???CHEERS,LAURIE. From sastevens at earthlink.net Mon Dec 20 21:51:06 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041220225106.14f26b87.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 19:25:00 -0800 (PST) Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > > > This is what back copies of DATAMATION and the like are for! > > I finally found a stash of Datamation (I currently only have two issues > total). The bad news is that many are water-damaged :( > > Datamation has been the hardest magazine for me to find. > I wince when I think of the fact that my father (retired, 27 years at IBM) threw out a then-complete set of Datamation going all the way back in the early 80's. -Scott From kcfoxie at mac.com Tue Dec 21 20:34:31 2004 From: kcfoxie at mac.com (Chris Browder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Musings on 2003 Message-ID: <029F5346-53C2-11D9-805F-000D9335E154@mac.com> Hello, I was looking for MaxxBoxxes when I came across your Musings. I was curious if you had ever found one? And if I may ask, where have you been looking? Thanks, Chris Browder (-AIM-) Vdubbed83 ) (-Homepage-) http://homepage.mac.com/kcfoxie/ ) -- "Total everything up and you may be surprised (but probably not) to find that Apple spent at least three-quarters of 2004 being officially late with one or more products... And since everything Apple does is, by definition, the height of fashion and the epitome of cool, obviously "late" is the new black." -J. Miller, www.appleturns.com From gtn at rbii.com Tue Dec 21 23:10:33 2004 From: gtn at rbii.com (Gavin Thomas Nicol) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: NeXT MO Drives... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: These are notorious for breaking. Does anyone have experience in repairing them? From steve.peddle at sympatico.ca Wed Dec 22 15:33:13 2004 From: steve.peddle at sympatico.ca (steve peddle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: mpf 1 manual please Message-ID: <000c01c4e86d$d84fbc40$8ad1e2d1@b1ikkn56> having a hard time finding this manual....I waz wondering if i can get a copy from you if still around...thanks steve peddle >From cctech@classiccmp.org Wed Dec 11 09:28:49 2002 From: cctech@classiccmp.org (Rich Beaudry) Date: Wed Dec 11 09:28:49 2002 Subject: MPF-1 Manuals Message-ID: Hello all, I just changed jobs, and the new place has a *TOTAL* lockdown on web browsing, even for the engineers, so I have not been keeping track of the list. I was catching up tonight from home, and saw Adrian's note about me and the MPF-1. I indeed have one, with manuals, and would be happy to make copies for whoever needs them. Please email me off-list, and we can set it up. One small caveat: I have a metric crapload of things going on, so it may be a few *weeks* before I can get to it. If you can wait, I can make copies... :-) Rich B. From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Dec 22 15:21:47 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: FFS: Syquest 44MB internal drive model SQ555 Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20041222151940.0242beb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> I have a Syquest 44MB internal drive, model SQ555, which came with an enclosure that I picked up. I don't know the status of the drive but it is free for the price of shipping to the first person to claim it... --tom From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Wed Dec 22 15:53:23 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: missing pages from DF32 manual on bitsavers Message-ID: Does anyone have the last few pages of the DF32 (not DF32D) manual? I was specifically interested in the board used to display track selection, etc, for the diskless tests. IIRC, it's on like page 6-41, and the copy of the DF32 maint manual on bitsavers only goes up to 6-37. Thanks, -ethan From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Dec 22 15:58:23 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive References: <20041220225106.14f26b87.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <010301c4e871$5cf16950$52406b43@66067007> I lost a couple years worth of then to water damage too. If I ever locate more I will contact you about any extra. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Stevens" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 9:51 PM Subject: Re: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive > On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 19:25:00 -0800 (PST) > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >> On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: >> >> > This is what back copies of DATAMATION and the like are for! >> >> I finally found a stash of Datamation (I currently only have two issues >> total). The bad news is that many are water-damaged :( >> >> Datamation has been the hardest magazine for me to find. >> > > I wince when I think of the fact that my father (retired, 27 years at IBM) > threw out a then-complete set of Datamation going all the way back in the > early 80's. > > -Scott > From aek at spies.com Wed Dec 22 16:25:35 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: missing pages from DF32 manual on bitsavers Message-ID: <20041222222535.8C0284CAD@spies.com> I have another copy of the manual with the missing pages Will fix the one up there this afternoon From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Wed Dec 22 16:36:47 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: missing pages from DF32 manual on bitsavers In-Reply-To: <20041222222535.8C0284CAD@spies.com> References: <20041222222535.8C0284CAD@spies.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 14:25:35 -0800 (PST), Al Kossow wrote: > > I have another copy of the manual with the missing pages > Will fix the one up there this afternoon Thanks! -ethan From RMeenaks at OLF.COM Wed Dec 22 17:08:33 2004 From: RMeenaks at OLF.COM (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Interesting "Rare" APPLE PCI Board on Ebay Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B558478077FF90F@exchange.olf.com> Don't know anything about this, but thought you guys might be interested. It has a Buy It Now of $15.... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=80075&item=5734752777 &rd=1&ssPageName=WD1V#ebayphotohosting Cheers, Ram (c) 2004 OpenLink Financial Copyright in this message and any attachments remains with us. It is confidential and may be legally privileged. If this message is not intended for you it must not be read, copied or used by you or disclosed to anyone else. Please advise the sender immediately if you have received this message in error. Although this message and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss or damage in any way arising from its use. From dholland at woh.rr.com Wed Dec 22 17:19:42 2004 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Sweet.. New toy.. Message-ID: <1103757582.29338.14.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> /me just got a early Xmas present. I got what should be a relatively complete Vax 4000-300, console, cables, and w/ some form of MO jukebox. Might even have a line on a small pile of tapes for the thing.. I don't know very little about the spec's on the box, as I literally just got ahold of it.. Looks like its got a fair bit of SCSI, and Ethernet in it. I'd guess its only got 32Mb of memory as I only saw one obvious MS670 memory board. (It took that many chips to make 32MB!?) The only concern I've got is, while its been stored in doors most of its life, its been outdoors since Monday, and its gotten _COLD_. I think it'll need a day or two just to warm up. I see what appears to be at least some documentation up on bitsavers, at least the phrase KA670 seems to match up what's on the little tag at the bottom of the unit. Does anyone have any other suggested hardware documentation site's they think would be worthwhile to point me at? Thanks, /me goes back to poking at the innards. :-) David From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Wed Dec 22 17:46:06 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Sweet.. New toy.. In-Reply-To: <1103757582.29338.14.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> Message-ID: <001801c4e880$68bb9bc0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > I got what should be a relatively complete Vax 4000-300, console, > cables, and w/ some form of MO jukebox. Might even have a line on a > small pile of tapes for the thing.. Nice. > I don't know very little about the spec's on the box, as I literally > just got ahold of it.. Looks like its got a fair bit of SCSI, and > Ethernet in it. I'd guess its only got 32Mb of memory as I only saw > one obvious MS670 memory board. (It took that many chips to > make 32MB!?) I would expect ethernet, but SCSI, while possible, is rarer. These things usually had SDI drives (KDA50 inside, RA7x drives in the upper bays) or DSSI (again RF7x drives in the upper bays). It was possible to arrange for SCSI to be in the box using a KZQSA, but that was only used to drive CDROM and tape - disks were not oficially supported. The small high density connector is sometimes mistaken for SCSI. Having what looks like a pair of SCSI connectors on the far left hand side does not mean you actually have SCSI (unless there is a KZQSA inside). > I see what appears to be at least some documentation up on > bitsavers, at > least the phrase KA670 seems to match up what's on the little > tag at the > bottom of the unit. The VAX 4000-300 CPU is indeed a KA670. If you have the later backplane (I forget the right serial number sequence) then you can upgrade to any of the later models (-400, -500, -600, 700A, -705A and maybe a few I missed along the way) just by swapping CPU and memory. The other CPUs are KA68x and KA69x. Lots of technical manuals available for pretty much all of these. > Does anyone have any other suggested hardware documentation > site's they > think would be worthwhile to point me at? http://vt100.net indexes pretty much everything. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > From news at computercollector.com Wed Dec 22 17:59:15 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: TV show on Antikythera device Message-ID: <20041222235915.88284.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> The "Modern Marvels" series (History Channel) is showing this special episode again. Here on the east coast, it's beginning... right now (7pm). ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 620 readers and counting! From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Dec 22 18:19:38 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:31 2005 Subject: Sweet.. New toy.. In-Reply-To: <001801c4e880$68bb9bc0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <200412230036.iBN0aKjd059486@huey.classiccmp.org> > It was possible to arrange for SCSI to be in the box using a > KZQSA, but that was only used to drive CDROM and tape - disks > were not oficially supported. Indeed. > The small high density connector is sometimes mistaken for > SCSI. Having what looks like a pair of SCSI connectors on the > far left hand side does not mean you actually have SCSI > (unless there is a KZQSA inside). The small connector is DSSI and should have a terminator installed, were those 50-way connectors ever used for a KZQSA? I thought the board itself had the sockets on, though thinking about it I can't remember which socket I used to connect up an RRD42 or TLZ04/6. Should check my own machines more often :) > The VAX 4000-300 CPU is indeed a KA670. If you have the later > backplane (I forget the right serial number sequence) then > you can upgrade to any of the later models (-400, -500, -600, Easiest way to check is to pop the CPU/memory module cover and pull the boards - earlier models had the usual quad height finger/socket connection with a ribbon cable doing the cpu/memory interconnect while the later ones used the zero-force type white socket blocks found on the likes of the HSD/HSZ RAID controllers and Alpha 1200 CPU modules. In other news, all the best for a quality collecting 2005! cheers! I'm one step closer to owning an Apple Lisa 1 but unfortunately it was upgraded to a MacXL, which I think I mentioned on here at the time..... -- Adrian/Witchy Creator/Curator of Binary Dinosaurs, quite probably the UK's biggest private home computer collection. www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online museum www.aaghverts.co.uk - *the* site for letting you moan about adverts! www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - former gothic shenanigans :( From lbickley at bickleywest.com Wed Dec 22 18:43:48 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Sweet.. New toy.. In-Reply-To: <1103757582.29338.14.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> References: <1103757582.29338.14.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> Message-ID: <200412221643.48080.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Here's a couple of good place to start (I've got a 4000-300 and 4000-600) http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/Hardware/Machines/DEC/vax/ vax4000.html#section:vax4000 http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/Hardware/Machines/DEC/vax/sections.html Cheers, Lyle On Wednesday 22 December 2004 15:19, David Holland wrote: > /me just got a early Xmas present. > > I got what should be a relatively complete Vax 4000-300, console, > cables, and w/ some form of MO jukebox. Might even have a line on a > small pile of tapes for the thing.. > > I don't know very little about the spec's on the box, as I literally > just got ahold of it.. Looks like its got a fair bit of SCSI, and > Ethernet in it. I'd guess its only got 32Mb of memory as I only saw > one obvious MS670 memory board. (It took that many chips to make 32MB!?) > > The only concern I've got is, while its been stored in doors most of its > life, its been outdoors since Monday, and its gotten _COLD_. I think > it'll need a day or two just to warm up. > > I see what appears to be at least some documentation up on bitsavers, at > least the phrase KA670 seems to match up what's on the little tag at the > bottom of the unit. > > Does anyone have any other suggested hardware documentation site's they > think would be worthwhile to point me at? > > Thanks, > > /me goes back to poking at the innards. :-) > > David -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From williams.dan at gmail.com Wed Dec 22 18:54:10 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Sweet.. New toy.. In-Reply-To: <1103757582.29338.14.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> References: <1103757582.29338.14.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> Message-ID: <26c11a6404122216546e3cd5a1@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 18:19:42 -0500, David Holland wrote: > /me just got a early Xmas present. > > I got what should be a relatively complete Vax 4000-300, console, > cables, and w/ some form of MO jukebox. Might even have a line on a > small pile of tapes for the thing.. > > I don't know very little about the spec's on the box, as I literally > just got ahold of it.. Looks like its got a fair bit of SCSI, and > Ethernet in it. I'd guess its only got 32Mb of memory as I only saw > one obvious MS670 memory board. (It took that many chips to make 32MB!?) > > The only concern I've got is, while its been stored in doors most of its > life, its been outdoors since Monday, and its gotten _COLD_. I think > it'll need a day or two just to warm up. > > I see what appears to be at least some documentation up on bitsavers, at > least the phrase KA670 seems to match up what's on the little tag at the > bottom of the unit. > > Does anyone have any other suggested hardware documentation site's they > think would be worthwhile to point me at? > > Thanks, > > /me goes back to poking at the innards. :-) > > David > > If you not already a member I would suggest joining encompass (the free one at the bottom) http://www.encompassus.org/membership/join.html and ordering the openvms hobby cd from http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/ It takes at least a week for both, so they should be both be ready by the time you get around to installing and playing with it. I've now got a few 4000's and they are great fun to play with and have the added bonus of keeping the house warm in the winter. If you search hp.com there are product manuals and info for vax 4000's and openvms. Dan From tomj at wps.com Wed Dec 22 19:11:13 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Cold Fusion, Infinite Capacitors, and other Suppressed Technologies... Message-ID: We're all wrong! Tantalums don't "fail" -- that's not zero-ohms you measure across the two mangled pins -- it's INFINITE CAPACITANCE! I estimate my little 47uF/35VDC tant must now be, oh, a TF or more (teraFarad). Of course it blows the 5amp fuse in the power supply! The TC is measured in YEARS... There's no other explanation possible. None. I am not listening to you. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Dec 22 19:13:26 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Cold Fusion, Infinite Capacitors, and other Suppressed Technologies... References: Message-ID: <41CA1BB6.7050701@jetnet.ab.ca> Tom Jennings wrote: > We're all wrong! Tantalums don't "fail" -- that's not zero-ohms > you measure across the two mangled pins -- it's INFINITE > CAPACITANCE! > > I estimate my little 47uF/35VDC tant must now be, oh, a TF > or more (teraFarad). Of course it blows the 5amp fuse in the > power supply! The TC is measured in YEARS... > > There's no other explanation possible. You got a FLUX Capacitor by mistake and you need several terra-watts of power for temporial displacment back to 1980. :) From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Wed Dec 22 19:39:00 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Cold Fusion, Infinite Capacitors, and other Suppressed Technologies... Message-ID: <0412230139.AA23917@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Tom Jennings wrote: > I estimate my little 47uF/35VDC tant must now be, oh, a TF > or more (teraFarad). TF? That's nothing, there are plenty of PF (petafarad) caps around in USA, or at least labeled as such by manufacturers who can't figure out that SI unit symbols and prefixes are case-sensitive. MS From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Dec 22 19:46:14 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Cold Fusion, Infinite Capacitors, and other Suppressed Technologies... In-Reply-To: <41CA1BB6.7050701@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <41CA1BB6.7050701@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <38314.64.139.41.130.1103766374.squirrel@64.139.41.130> > You got a FLUX Capacitor by mistake and you need several terra-watts > of power for temporial displacment back to 1980. :) 1.21 gigawatts? How could I have been so careless! From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Dec 22 19:57:19 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Another iPDS query In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20041221194402.0097e270@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041222205719.00987b00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:24 AM 12/22/04 -0500, you wrote: >on 21/12/04 7:44 PM, Joe R. wrote: > >> I'll bet that you'll be asking for some iSBX Bubble Memory cards next! > >on 21/12/04 7:27 PM, Steve Thatcher wrote: > >> I have one sitting in an iPDS system back in Virginia and I can take photos >> of it when I return in January. A schematic would be harder... > >>> At 10:52 AM 12/21/2004, Arlen Michaels wrote: >>>> >>>> Does anyone have a spare "Multimodule Adapter Board" for the Intel iPDS? >>>> This is the adapter that allows iSBX cards (like bubble memory) to be added > >I actually have the Bubble Memory card but not the necessary adapter, hence >the frustration! > >Thanks Steve, a picture would be a start. If anyone can send me a schematic >from the iPDS tech manual, I could probably slap an adapter together. I >don't even know if there's any electronics on the adapter board-- I suspect >it might be little more than a cross-wiring job. > >Thanks, >Arlen Michaels I have an iPDS User's manual and it's vague about the bubble card and adapter card. It's supposed to have instructions about how to install the bubble card (which would require installing the adapter too). But it's vague about if there even is an adapter. There are no schematics or technical details in it so if you get a schematic I'd like a copy too. I have two iPDSs, one with a bubble card and one without and I do have a loose (not extra!) iSBX bubble card. Joe > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Dec 22 20:02:10 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Another iPDS query In-Reply-To: <41C9AF4A.3000707@mich.com> References: <200412221713.JAA19453@clulw009.amd.com> <200412221713.JAA19453@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041222210210.00919310@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> What do you mean "will want"? I DO want you get get of your duff and get busy :-) Joe At 12:30 PM 12/22/04 -0500, you wrote: >Yeah, Joe. Get them out and dust 'em off!!! Let's put some of your >"stash" to work! > >Oops, I better watch what I say. You'll want me to "put up or shut up" >and get those cp/m bubble drivers working. > >;) > >Dave > >Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >>Hi Joe >> If you have any extras, I'd like on also ;) >>Dwight >> >> >> >> >>>From: "Joe R." >>> >>> I'll bet that you'll be asking for some iSBX Bubble Memory cards next! >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>At 10:52 AM 12/21/2004, Arlen Michaels wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>The recent thread about getting river's iPDS up and running has reminded me: >>>>> >>>>>Does anyone have a spare "Multimodule Adapter Board" for the Intel iPDS? >>>>>This is the adapter that allows iSBX cards (like bubble memory) to be added >>>>>to the iPDS cpu board. As far as I can tell, it has four iSBX connectors on >>>>>it, and plugs into J5 on the base processor board. If anyone has an extra, >>>>>or even a picture and schematic so I could make one by hand, please get in >>>>>touch. >>>>> >>>>>Thanks! >>>>>Arlen Michaels >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Dec 22 20:00:32 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Another iPDS query In-Reply-To: <200412221713.JAA19453@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041222210032.0090dc20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> No! No! No! I have ONE that's not in a machine but I'm planning on installing it in my second iPDS. In almost 20 years of collecting Multibus stuff this is the ONLY iSBX bubble card that I've ever found other than the one that came in my first iPDS. This things are as rare as the proverbible hen's teeth! Joe At 09:13 AM 12/22/04 -0800, you wrote: >Hi Joe > If you have any extras, I'd like on also ;) >Dwight > > >>From: "Joe R." >> >> I'll bet that you'll be asking for some iSBX Bubble Memory cards next! >> >> Joe >> >> >>> >>>At 10:52 AM 12/21/2004, Arlen Michaels wrote: >>>>The recent thread about getting river's iPDS up and running has reminded me: >>>> >>>>Does anyone have a spare "Multimodule Adapter Board" for the Intel iPDS? >>>>This is the adapter that allows iSBX cards (like bubble memory) to be added >>>>to the iPDS cpu board. As far as I can tell, it has four iSBX connectors on >>>>it, and plugs into J5 on the base processor board. If anyone has an extra, >>>>or even a picture and schematic so I could make one by hand, please get in >>>>touch. >>>> >>>>Thanks! >>>>Arlen Michaels >>> >>> >> >> > > > From allain at panix.com Wed Dec 22 20:21:33 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Sweet.. New toy.. References: <1103757582.29338.14.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> <26c11a6404122216546e3cd5a1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <05c401c4e896$1f858900$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> The little 50pin connectors are DSSI. SCSI adaptors typically used the 'centronics' connectors. Nothing wrong with DSSI. I believe each drive had state memory and its own mc68000 processr. You can log-in to _the drive_ and inquire usage statistics and other history from it. Not necessary, but just another fun thing to do with VAXes. > Does anyone have any other suggested hardware documentation > site's they think would be worthwhile to point me at? There is a set of files called the "dec94mds" that has a file v4000oga.pdf in it. That file is the VAX 4000 Operations guide. http://vt100.net/manx/ says there's 4 copies on-line ( http://vt100.net/manx/details?pn=EK-V4000-OG.A01 ) John A. From arlen at acm.org Wed Dec 22 20:55:41 2004 From: arlen at acm.org (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Another iPDS query In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041222205719.00987b00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: on 22/12/04 8:57 PM, Joe R. wrote: > I have an iPDS User's manual and it's vague about the bubble card and > adapter card. It's supposed to have instructions about how to install the > bubble card (which would require installing the adapter too). But it's > vague about if there even is an adapter. When I looked inside my iPDS, there was clearly no way to mate the iSBX bubble card with the processor board without an adapter of some kind-- there's simply nowhere to plug it. > There are no schematics or > technical details in it so if you get a schematic I'd like a copy too. Sure. I suggest it should be added to Al's Intel archive. Arlen Michaels From tomj at wps.com Wed Dec 22 19:32:04 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Cold Fusion, Infinite Capacitors, and other Suppressed Technologies... -- plus reason for DOUBLED MESSAGES In-Reply-To: <41CA1BB6.7050701@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <41CA1BB6.7050701@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Dec 2004, Ben Franchuk wrote: > You got a FLUX Capacitor by mistake and you need several terra-watts > of power for temporial displacment back to 1980. :) I think I SAID I'm not listening to you! :-) Actually, this was #2 of 2 posts; the other did not make it. Here's what mail MTA says: -Queue ID- --Size-- ----Arrival Time---- -Sender/Recipient------- 1D8DC2D57A 2414 Wed Dec 22 17:06:57 tomj@wps.com (conversation with mail.ezwind.net[209.145.140.19] timed out while sending end of data -- message may be sent more than once) cctech@classiccmp.org AHA! This may explain the doubling of CC mail -- someone's incoming MTA is a crock. The receiving MTA is probably ending the connection before it completes SMTP gunk. Or, it's one of those flux capacitors sending the mail back in time. From tomj at wps.com Wed Dec 22 19:06:57 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: 4Kx1 static RAMs... Message-ID: My old machine is slowly becoming sensible. Turns out I had three bad RAM chips in my Seattle 16K boards. They're TI 9044's, I assume are 2147 type. Jameco sells them for $6 each; is there a better source? (They're also 55nS claimed, about 3X faster than what's in there now!) I juggled chips such that the duds are at 9000 - 9fff, so I can boot CP/M (62K system) and run some programs (memtest, sid...). I've got to figure out why the floppy controller won't talk to side 2 (sectors 27 - 52) and I can do that in 16K easily. My B: drive is loud OH MAN IS IT SO LOUD I have to power it off after a program load! Need to find another double sided drive. Out of sheer laziness, to avoid even the faint effort it took to find the bad chips, I yanked all my nice static RAM and swapped in my other RAM cards, one by one: * Central Data 64K * MSC 64K * mumble brand, some acronym, no manual (I'm not at home right now) My EPROM monitor resides at 7800 - 7fff, uses a dozen bytes RAM below 7800. It self-copies into RAM and turns itself off (for a clean address space after boot). Central Data: set the jumpers right, plugged it in, Nothing Happens. (Boring story & expletives deleted) it shorted +16V, popped the fuse. Another one of those !@#$%W^% tantalums; 47uF/35V. Replaced with an electrolytic (it was just down near the card edge). Card works now, but flake-ey results, failed address-contention tests, couldn't boot CP/M. It's all 4116's, lots of jumpers for buss timing, ugh. Needs Work. Reference separate rant on capacitors. MSC: Dislike this thing's RC filters on the data/address lines! Crock-detect! I forget the problem, but had problems with one bank (32K). Mumble: Inert. All the static cards back in, debugged the problem. For the S-100 buss, I'll stick with static memory, thank you! From peters04 at techwiz.ca Wed Dec 22 21:48:45 2004 From: peters04 at techwiz.ca (Peter Sjoberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Sweet.. New toy.. In-Reply-To: <05c401c4e896$1f858900$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <1103757582.29338.14.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> <26c11a6404122216546e3cd5a1@mail.gmail.com> <05c401c4e896$1f858900$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <1103773725.4184.11.camel@picard.intra.techwiz.ca> On Wed, 2004-12-22 at 21:21 -0500, John Allain wrote: > The little 50pin connectors are DSSI. > SCSI adaptors typically used the 'centronics' connectors. > Nothing wrong with DSSI. I believe each drive had state > memory and its own mc68000 processr. You can log-in > to _the drive_ and inquire usage statistics and other history > from it. Not necessary, but just another fun thing to do with > VAXes. One big warning regarding DSSI, DO NOT disconnect ANY cables with power on. I learned this the hard way. The server was shutdown but did still have power. I wanted to rewire so I just pulled it out and put it back and now nothing worked. The DEC tech was on site at the same time and informed me that in this configuration the onboard fuse with blow just about every time the cable is disconnected with power on. On the DSSI terminator it's a light, if that is off - start to look for a fuse. /ps > > > Does anyone have any other suggested hardware documentation > > site's they think would be worthwhile to point me at? > > There is a set of files called the "dec94mds" that has a file > v4000oga.pdf in it. That file is the VAX 4000 Operations guide. > http://vt100.net/manx/ says there's 4 copies on-line > ( http://vt100.net/manx/details?pn=EK-V4000-OG.A01 ) > > John A. From cb at mythtech.net Wed Dec 22 23:24:40 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Interesting "Rare" APPLE PCI Board on Ebay Message-ID: >Don't know anything about this, but thought you guys might be interested. >It has a Buy It Now of $15.... I'm not sure how "rare" it really is. One of the major mac "parts" dealers (I forget who, small dog maybe), had a bunch of these for sale not too long ago at $5.00 each. They didn't seem to indicate any limit on the supply. Also, from what I understand, the board isn't too useful as the Mac OS doesn't recognize it, and so won't work with the ports on it. It is probably about a rare as the Apple Set Top Box, it certainly seems to be as functional. :-) -chris From nico at farumdata.dk Thu Dec 23 00:04:32 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Compaticard IV software. References: <003101c4e69c$2cc4acf0$ac9afea9@superior> Message-ID: <003901c4e8b5$45aa9bb0$2101a8c0@finans> Sorted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurie Boshell" To: Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: Compaticard IV software. > I'm looking for drivers for my Compaticard IV. > > CAN YOU HELP ME ???CHEERS,LAURIE. > > From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Dec 23 00:16:15 2004 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Another iPDS query Message-ID: <62.4aedcd3e.2efbbcaf@aol.com> Joe; Do you have any software that drives or uses the iSBX 251 bubble memory module board? My 1986 Intel Development systems handbook says "The iPDS can be used as a general purpose desktop computer. The widely used CP/M microcomputer operating system is available for the iPDS from Intel. It supports iPDS systems with single or multiple disk drives, and iPDS systems using bubble memory for mass storage." Is this inherent in CP/M from Intel? Has anyone tried this? I think I have Intel CP/M for the iPDS but don't have any bubble memory left. Nor do I have any of the 4 way iSBX boards for the iPDSs left. Paxton Astoria, OR From Arno_1983 at gmx.de Thu Dec 23 01:23:27 2004 From: Arno_1983 at gmx.de (Arno Kletzander) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: HP 7908/7912 head locking Message-ID: <21340.1103786607@www3.gmx.net> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 11:10:06, Al Kossow (aek@spies.com) wrote: > I've put a scan of the 791x installation manual up at > www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/disc/07912-90902_791x_Inst_Jun86.pdf Many Thanks, Mr. Kossow! And all that quick! This will no doubt enable me to prepare the drives for moving. I've pulled this and the corresponding Service Manual down. The machine wasn't run in the last few years according to the owner, so a dummy-loaded PSU checkout seems to be in order. As an HP 1000 neophyte, what other corners do I have to pay special attention to? (The Site Environmental Requirements for Disc/Tape Drives say something about an absolute filter that may have to be changed sometimes, but since the 7912 is said to use a sealed drive assy. in the Service manual, I suppose this applies to another series?) Another time this list proves to be a magnificient resouce to me... Yours sincerely -- Arno Kletzander Stud. Hilfskraft Informatik Sammlung Erlangen www.iser.uni-erlangen.de +++ Sparen Sie mit GMX DSL +++ http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl AKTION für Wechsler: DSL-Tarife ab 3,99 EUR/Monat + Startguthaben From dmabry at mich.com Thu Dec 23 01:44:25 2004 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Another iPDS query In-Reply-To: <62.4aedcd3e.2efbbcaf@aol.com> References: <62.4aedcd3e.2efbbcaf@aol.com> Message-ID: <41CA7759.4030106@mich.com> I'm not Joe, but I can answer this. Off the shelf, from Intel, CP/M-80 did support the bubble memory as a storage device. Also, the Intel operating system called ISIS-PDS did support up to two of the iSBX-251 modules as :F4: and :F5: (ISIS called its drives :Fn: rather than letters like cp/m). I have never used the CP/M os with bubble memory as storage, but I have used a rather interesting configuration. I made the bubble device a bootable device. The PDS will ask you if you want to boot from the bubble if there is no bootable diskette in the drive. I answer yes, and the processor A boot ISIS from the bubble. Then I put a cp/m disk into the drive, close the door, and tell the other processor (when the optional second processor board is installed) "No", don't boot from the bubble. It then retries the floppy drive and boots CP/M. That way I have two processors each running a different os. I just have to keep track which processor I tell to access which logical drive, so ISIS doesn't try to access a CP/M disk and vice versa. It sounds like we have a few iPDS owners here on the list who would like the iSBX add-on board. Sure would be nice to find some. I have one, and that one is being used. I'm putting some documentation together for the iPDS into pdf files, some executables, and some one-of-a-kind listings and custom coding. Where might be a good place to host it so that others can download it as needed? Dave Innfogra@aol.com wrote: >Joe; > >Do you have any software that drives or uses the iSBX 251 bubble memory >module board? > >My 1986 Intel Development systems handbook says > >"The iPDS can be used as a general purpose desktop computer. The widely used >CP/M microcomputer operating system is available for the iPDS from Intel. It >supports iPDS systems with single or multiple disk drives, and iPDS systems >using bubble memory for mass storage." > >Is this inherent in CP/M from Intel? Has anyone tried this? I think I have >Intel CP/M for the iPDS but don't have any bubble memory left. Nor do I have any >of the 4 way iSBX boards for the iPDSs left. > >Paxton >Astoria, OR > > > From lenius at tscnet.com Thu Dec 23 02:19:33 2004 From: lenius at tscnet.com (Eric & Diane Lenius) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Heathkit H-9 terminal Message-ID: <003b01c4e8c8$227df5c0$6401a8c0@ericleni> Anyone have a Heathkit H-9 terminal that may be good for parts? Also, How about a manual for the H-11-5 serial interface? Regards, Eric Lenius lenius@tscnet.com From gordon at gjcp.net Thu Dec 23 02:51:20 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: 4Kx1 static RAMs... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41CA8708.4060704@gjcp.net> Tom Jennings wrote: > My B: drive is loud OH MAN IS IT SO LOUD I have to power it off > after a program load! Need to find another double sided drive. Can't you just replace the bearings? I wouldn't have thought that the drives were mechanically that complex. If you get the old bearing out without destroying it, then you will see a code stamped on it. This will allow you to buy replacements from any good bearing supplier. Gordon. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Dec 23 06:59:46 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Another iPDS query In-Reply-To: <62.4aedcd3e.2efbbcaf@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041223075946.007937c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:16 AM 12/23/04 -0500, you wrote: >Joe; > >Do you have any software that drives or uses the iSBX 251 bubble memory >module board? > >My 1986 Intel Development systems handbook says > >"The iPDS can be used as a general purpose desktop computer. The widely used >CP/M microcomputer operating system is available for the iPDS from Intel. It >supports iPDS systems with single or multiple disk drives, and iPDS systems >using bubble memory for mass storage." > >Is this inherent in CP/M from Intel? Has anyone tried this? I don't know of anyone that has CPM from Intel. Dave Mabry has modified regular CPM to work with the MDSs (mostly a matter of making it recognize both the SD and DD drives). AFIK the only thing that supports the bubble memory is iRMX. I believe that's what it said in the Intel 1983 catalog but Intel CPM came out later and it may have support for it but the problem would be to figure out how the board would have to be configured. My 254 Hardware Reference Manual has no mention of CPM. iRMX has support for the full size iSBC 254 bubble memory. I don't know if it supports the iSBX boards or not but I doubt it. Dave is in the process of writing utilities and drivers for the 254 card for CPM and Steve Thatcer is writing them for ISIS. I think I have >Intel CP/M for the iPDS but don't have any bubble memory left. I'd like get a copy of that and try it! Hint, hint! Nor do I have any >of the 4 way iSBX boards for the iPDSs left. I MAY be able to dig some up but it's going to take some time. Joe > >Paxton >Astoria, OR > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Dec 23 07:26:53 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Intel Pentium Overdrive EBOXP0DP5V83 Chips] (UK) Message-ID: <1103808413.30934.17.camel@weka.localdomain> Chap has 11 of these critters still sealed in boxes - they take a 486 up to an 83MHz Pentium apparently. I suspect they're no use to anyone these days :) I can get them to Bletchley; can always park them in a corner for a while if needs be! They're off to the tip otherwise... cheers Jules From h.j.stegeman at hccnet.nl Thu Dec 23 10:07:15 2004 From: h.j.stegeman at hccnet.nl (Henk Stegeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Help: Looking for IBM timing belt replacement. Message-ID: <001701c4e909$78c57340$8006a8c0@dordt.nl> Hi all, Who can help me with a source for a timing belt for my IBM 5203 line printer ? The old belt has given up after 13 years... See: http://home.hccnet.nl/h.j.stegeman/IBMbelt.jpg. It is a US sized belt: Tooth pitch: 0.125" (1/8)" (this pitch size makes it hard to find) Witdh belt: 0.500" (1/2)" Outer length: 13 inch (98 tooths) Thickness belt: +/- 0.080" Finding this belt in Europe is hopeless, all metrical sizes. Thanks for any reaction / tips that will make printer work again ! Regards Henk Stegeman IBM System/3 owner. From frustum at pacbell.net Thu Dec 23 10:38:18 2004 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Help: Looking for IBM timing belt replacement. In-Reply-To: <001701c4e909$78c57340$8006a8c0@dordt.nl> References: <001701c4e909$78c57340$8006a8c0@dordt.nl> Message-ID: <41CAF47A.7070501@pacbell.net> Henk Stegeman wrote: > Hi all, > > Who can help me with a source for a timing belt for my IBM 5203 line printer ? > The old belt has given up after 13 years... > > See: http://home.hccnet.nl/h.j.stegeman/IBMbelt.jpg. > > It is a US sized belt: > > Tooth pitch: 0.125" (1/8)" (this pitch size makes it hard to find) > Witdh belt: 0.500" (1/2)" > Outer length: 13 inch (98 tooths) > Thickness belt: +/- 0.080" > > Finding this belt in Europe is hopeless, all metrical sizes. > > Thanks for any reaction / tips that will make printer work again ! > > Regards > > Henk Stegeman > IBM System/3 owner. Henk, I don't know if they have it exactly, but they might. Try McMaster-Carr: http://www.mcmaster.com/ search for "timing belt" and go from there. Good luck. From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Thu Dec 23 12:05:54 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Sweet.. New toy.. In-Reply-To: <200412230036.iBN0aKjd059486@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000e01c4e91a$0cb163b0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > > The VAX 4000-300 CPU is indeed a KA670. If you have the later > > backplane (I forget the right serial number sequence) then > > you can upgrade to any of the later models (-400, -500, -600, > > Easiest way to check is to pop the CPU/memory module cover > and pull the > boards - earlier models had the usual quad height > finger/socket connection > with a ribbon cable doing the cpu/memory interconnect while > the later ones > used the zero-force type white socket blocks found on the likes of the > HSD/HSZ RAID controllers and Alpha 1200 CPU modules. Are you sure about that? I thouht the only difference was that more wires were connected on the later backplane. You were supposed to be able to use anything (including a KA670) in the later backplanes but only a KA670 in the earlier one. If the difference was physically obvious, why rely on telling people the serial number range to distinguish one from another when simply looking would have done? Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From tomj at wps.com Thu Dec 23 13:01:40 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: 4Kx1 static RAMs... In-Reply-To: <41CA8708.4060704@gjcp.net> References: <41CA8708.4060704@gjcp.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > Tom Jennings wrote: > > > My B: drive is loud OH MAN IS IT SO LOUD I have to power it off > > after a program load! Need to find another double sided drive. > > Can't you just replace the bearings? What, and ruin my chance to complain about it?! More seriously, I will do that, but at the moment I need to see if it's worth the effort. It's also a single-sided drive and I need another double-sided; but I won't let it go to waste or ruin. I think it's likely to be a plain bearing, probably an oilite type (sintered bronze). It probably ran dry, and was left running. From tomj at wps.com Thu Dec 23 13:04:36 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Help: Looking for IBM timing belt replacement. In-Reply-To: <41CAF47A.7070501@pacbell.net> References: <001701c4e909$78c57340$8006a8c0@dordt.nl> <41CAF47A.7070501@pacbell.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Jim Battle wrote: > > Tooth pitch: 0.125" (1/8)" (this pitch size makes it hard to find) > > Witdh belt: 0.500" (1/2)" Outer length: 13 inch (98 tooths) Thickness > > belt: +/- 0.080" > > Finding this belt in Europe is hopeless, all metrical sizes. > Henk, I don't know if they have it exactly, but they might. Try > McMaster-Carr: > http://www.mcmaster.com/ > search for "timing belt" and go from there. Good idea. Also try www.mscdirect.com (MSC Industrial Supply). They're similar to McMaster-Carr. Both are huge industrial component suppliers. You can probably call 'em on the phone or email too. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Dec 23 13:22:34 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: parallel keyboards Message-ID: <200412231922.LAA19777@clulw009.amd.com> Hi It seems that every now and then, people need a parallel keyboard. There is an auction on ebay for two keyboards that were designed for a Franklin Ace. I've bought from this fellow in the past and these are good quality keyboards. They are NOS. They require only +5V and are ASCII true out. I have hacked the PROM for this board and can give you the locations to change the key behavior for specific operation that one might need for another machine. They can take a standard 2716 but have some type of 2508 on them. They have a 8035 or 8048 as the processor. If no one else bids on these by tomorrow some time, I'll bid on them. It would be better to see these go to someone that needs them now then to sit in my spares pile. Check ebay #5149974404 Later Dwight From lenius at tscnet.com Thu Dec 23 13:38:17 2004 From: lenius at tscnet.com (Eric & Diane Lenius) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: help Message-ID: <000e01c4e926$f3ede620$6401a8c0@ericleni> In November 2003 Joe Heck offered up a stack of manuals including some heathkit stufff I could really use right now that he was going to toss. I'd like to contact him and see if he indeed tossed them out. Regards, Eric Lenius lenius@tscnet.com Heathkit H11-2 parallel interface module schematic Heathkit WH9-1, WH8-51, WH11-51, WH8-41 adapter cables instructions Heathkit H11-2 illistration booklet Heathkit WHA11-5 serial interface module schematic Heathkit H11-5 illistration booklet Heath/Zenith model WHA11-5 serial interface module operation/service manual 1979 Heathkit H11-5 serial interface module 1977 Heathkit H11-2 parallel interface module 1977 Heathkit H11-5 schematic From dholland at woh.rr.com Thu Dec 23 16:15:17 2004 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Sweet.. New toy.. In-Reply-To: <001801c4e880$68bb9bc0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> References: <001801c4e880$68bb9bc0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <1103840117.8070.30.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> On Wed, 2004-12-22 at 23:46 +0000, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > I would expect ethernet, but SCSI, while possible, is rarer. These > things usually had SDI drives (KDA50 inside, RA7x drives in the > upper bays) or DSSI (again RF7x drives in the upper bays). > > It was possible to arrange for SCSI to be in the box using > a KZQSA, but that was only used to drive CDROM and tape - > disks were not oficially supported. > > The small high density connector is sometimes mistaken for > SCSI. Having what looks like a pair of SCSI connectors on > the far left hand side does not mean you actually have SCSI > (unless there is a KZQSA inside). Ah, my bad, yeah, they do look like mini 50 pin scsi connectors. It does have true scsi on it at least.. You say disks were "Not officially supported".. I don't suppose they'd work still though? (I've a number of varying size SCSI drives in external shoe boxes that are easy enough to move around, and plug in. DSSI drives, well.... Unsurprisingly, I don't have any of those, should the below 3 turn out to be boat anchors.) I've poked around in it, and on the net enough to see what all is in it.. Should anyone be interested.. 2 RF72 1G drives. 1 RF31 380M drive. TK70 Tape drive. KZQSA SCSI Controller. M7559 TQK70 Tape controller. DELQA-SA Ethernet CXA16-M 16 port ASYNC board. L4000-AA KA670 CPU board. L4001-BE 32Mb memory board (I still think that's a mighty large pile of chips for just 32MB) A DELNI "hub" A DESTA thinnet adapter. A H3104 for the CXA16 (So, only 8 of the CXA16 ports will be available.) A C. Itoh CIT220+ terminal I've not learned much about the juke box, other than its made by U.S. Design, and has a HP C1718 MO drive in it. And I believe all the necessary cables to wire it up. > > The VAX 4000-300 CPU is indeed a KA670. If you have the later > backplane (I forget the right serial number sequence) then > you can upgrade to any of the later models (-400, -500, > -600, 700A, -705A and maybe a few I missed along the way) > just by swapping CPU and memory. The other CPUs are KA68x > and KA69x. Lots of technical manuals available for pretty > much all of these. That I'll have to check into.. Fortunately, I've already got a Encompass membership, and VAX/VMS 7.3. (Is 32Mb really enough for 7.3?) Putting it into working order will probably end up being a 2005 project w/ my son and the holidays coming. My thanks for the other suggestions/sites/warnings. I think I've got enough to chew on for a bit.. Thanks all, David From lists at microvax.org Thu Dec 23 16:27:00 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie lists) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Sweet.. New toy.. Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, David Holland wrote: > On Wed, 2004-12-22 at 23:46 +0000, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > >> >> It was possible to arrange for SCSI to be in the box using >> a KZQSA, but that was only used to drive CDROM and tape - >> disks were not oficially supported. > It does have true scsi on it at least.. You say disks were "Not > officially supported".. I don't suppose they'd work still though? Read: No driver under VMS or NetBSD, and the design was very low-cost with lots of corners cut. Apparently it'll barely tolerate a single drive attached to it. > (I've a number of varying size SCSI drives in external shoe boxes that > are easy enough to move around, and plug in. DSSI drives, well.... > Unsurprisingly, I don't have any of those, should the below 3 turn out > to be boat anchors.) I'm willing to bet that ALL of your DSSI disks are fine. If you require more storage, go and get a HSD05 and a Storageworks shelf to put it in. eBah has them quite regularly. A Storageworks shelf is a rackmountable SCSI drawer system, holds 8 modules. At least one of those would be a PSU, the rest can be disks or tapes. A HSD05 is a DSSI <-> SCSI converter that appears on the DSSI bus as an attached server with multiple RF7x disks. I run two DSSI VAXen off one DSSI bus sharing a HSD05. Easiest and cheapest way to get NetBSD on a 4000/200 is a KFQSA QBus DSSI card and a HSD05 :) > I've poked around in it, and on the net enough to see what all is in > it.. Should anyone be interested.. > > 2 RF72 1G drives. > 1 RF31 380M drive. Yum :) alex/melt From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 23 17:03:11 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Sweet.. New toy.. In-Reply-To: <1103840117.8070.30.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> References: <001801c4e880$68bb9bc0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> <1103840117.8070.30.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> Message-ID: <45504.64.139.41.130.1103842991.squirrel@64.139.41.130> Antonio wrote: > a KZQSA, but that was only used to drive CDROM and tape - > disks were not oficially supported. David wrote: > It does have true scsi on it at least.. You say disks were "Not > officially supported".. I don't suppose they'd work still though? I think you might be able to make it work by writing your own device driver. But since you've got some DSSI drives in there (RF72, RF31), why bother? Eric From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Thu Dec 23 17:07:45 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Sweet.. New toy.. In-Reply-To: <1103840117.8070.30.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> Message-ID: <001901c4e944$37db8dc0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > It does have true scsi on it at least.. You say disks were "Not > officially supported".. I don't suppose they'd work still though? People do report that disks (or at least, a disk) does work. But I expect that "it boots and I logged in for a few minutes" didn't quite cut it for DEC's engineers :-) I would expect there to be some issues in there! > (I've a number of varying size SCSI drives in external shoe boxes that > are easy enough to move around, and plug in. DSSI drives, well.... > Unsurprisingly, I don't have any of those, should the below 3 turn out > to be boat anchors.) I'll bet there are more DSSI drives floating around than VAXen! Still, an HSD30 or HSD05 with a few old 20GB disks will probably provide all the disk space you'll ever need! > L4001-BE 32Mb memory board (I still think that's a mighty > large pile of > chips for just 32MB) You've been spoiled by today's 256Mbit technology (actually, I think that was yesterday's technology :-)) > Fortunately, I've already got a Encompass membership, and VAX/VMS 7.3. > (Is 32Mb really enough for 7.3?) Well if you want to run Windows XP under the Bochs emulator then maybe not. If you want to learn about OpenVMS and maybe do some programming, then it will be fine. I'm still using my VAXstation 3100-76 with 32MB under OpenVMS V7.1. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From a.carlini at ntlworld.com Thu Dec 23 17:11:34 2004 From: a.carlini at ntlworld.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Sweet.. New toy.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001a01c4e944$c0850ed0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> > I run two DSSI VAXen off one DSSI bus sharing a HSD05. Easiest and > cheapest way to get NetBSD on a 4000/200 is a KFQSA QBus DSSI > card and a > HSD05 :) The HSD05 (IIRC) was some 3rd party's low-end design that DEC rebadged for a while until they could get their own HSD30 done and dusted. I'm reasonably sure that the HSD30 performance was better (probably significantly better) but I never had one to play with so I do not know whether it was significantly better! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Dec 23 16:50:05 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Help: Looking for IBM timing belt replacement. In-Reply-To: <41CAF47A.7070501@pacbell.net> References: <001701c4e909$78c57340$8006a8c0@dordt.nl> <001701c4e909$78c57340$8006a8c0@dordt.nl> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041223175005.00989eb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:38 AM 12/23/04 -0600, you wrote: >Henk Stegeman wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> Who can help me with a source for a timing belt for my IBM 5203 line printer ? >> The old belt has given up after 13 years... >> >> See: http://home.hccnet.nl/h.j.stegeman/IBMbelt.jpg. >> >> It is a US sized belt: >> >> Tooth pitch: 0.125" (1/8)" (this pitch size makes it hard to find) >> Witdh belt: 0.500" (1/2)" >> Outer length: 13 inch (98 tooths) >> Thickness belt: +/- 0.080" >> >> Finding this belt in Europe is hopeless, all metrical sizes. >> >> Thanks for any reaction / tips that will make printer work again ! >> >> Regards >> >> Henk Stegeman >> IBM System/3 owner. > >Henk, I don't know if they have it exactly, but they might. Try >McMaster-Carr: > http://www.mcmaster.com/ >search for "timing belt" and go from there. > >Good luck. > I doubt McMaster Carr will be of any help. You have to have an account with them AND a tax number before they'll sell to you. And that's even if you walk into one of their locations. I doubt they'd even talk to you if they knew that you're in Europe. Try Stock Drive Components or Florida Belting. I've bought belts from Florida Belting and had good success with them but I don't know if they're on the web. If you'll send me a message after Christmas and remind me I'll give them a call and see if they have the right belt (almost certain) and if they'll ship to Europe. Joe From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Dec 23 18:01:26 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Sweet.. New toy.. In-Reply-To: <000e01c4e91a$0cb163b0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> References: <200412230036.iBN0aKjd059486@huey.classiccmp.org> <000e01c4e91a$0cb163b0$5b01a8c0@flexpc> Message-ID: <1375.192.168.0.7.1103846486.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> >> with a ribbon cable doing the cpu/memory interconnect while >> the later ones >> used the zero-force type white socket blocks found on the likes of the >> HSD/HSZ RAID controllers and Alpha 1200 CPU modules. > > Are you sure about that? I thouht the only difference was that > more wires were connected on the later backplane. You were > supposed to be able to use anything (including a KA670) in > the later backplanes but only a KA670 in the earlier one. We've got several 4000 series VAXen in the workshop and one of them has this backplane, I'm sure it's a 4000-505 or something of that ilk. I'm back home in Newcastle for the festivities now, but I can mail the poor saps left at work tomorrow and ask them to check :) I can also check my own 4500 assuming the wind doesn't stop me getting to the garage tomorrow! Oh, the levers that hold the boards in are on some sort of ratchet arrangement from what I remember, it's been a few months since I was last delving into the internals. > If the difference was physically obvious, why rely on telling > people the serial number range to distinguish one from another > when simply looking would have done? because end users weren't allowed to pull their machines apart to check? Cheers, -- adrian/witchy Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UKs biggest home computer collection? From tomj at wps.com Thu Dec 23 18:04:16 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Help: Looking for IBM timing belt replacement. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041223175005.00989eb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <001701c4e909$78c57340$8006a8c0@dordt.nl> <001701c4e909$78c57340$8006a8c0@dordt.nl> <3.0.6.32.20041223175005.00989eb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Joe R. wrote: > I doubt McMaster Carr will be of any help. You have to have an account > with them AND a tax number before they'll sell to you. And that's even if > you walk into one of their locations. I doubt they'd even talk to you if > they knew that you're in Europe. Grainger is like that too, never could figure out what their problem is. MSC Direct doesn't have that problem. I buy for work and personally. I do simple $30 orders, online, delivered to home. YOu can call and talk to (somtimes) knowledgable people. Overall prices are OK, not great; but when you need only one item or a small quantity (I just bought a bunch of odd plastics from them) it doesn't matter. Ask for a free catalog; is 4" thick, thousands of pages, hard cover! Free! www.mscdirect.com From f.heite at hccnet.nl Thu Dec 23 18:31:12 2004 From: f.heite at hccnet.nl (Freek Heite) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs Message-ID: <200412240031.iBO0VCjd068625@huey.classiccmp.org> >Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 18:36:16 -0800 (PST) >From: Cameron Kaiser >Subject: Re: Old Dos Programs > >Eventually, yes, though they were only distributors for that one (id Software >actually wrote the Commander Keen series; check out their exorcism of their >past games, including Wolf and CK, in DOOM II's secret level Never saw Commander Keen stuff in DOOM II, only the Wolfenstein level. I'd be grateful for any hints or tips to call up CK in DOOM II. Thanks, Freek. From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Dec 23 18:26:47 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Help: Looking for IBM timing belt replacement. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041223175005.00989eb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <001701c4e909$78c57340$8006a8c0@dordt.nl> <001701c4e909$78c57340$8006a8c0@dordt.nl> <3.0.6.32.20041223175005.00989eb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Joe R. wrote: > I doubt McMaster Carr will be of any help. You have to have an account > with them AND a tax number before they'll sell to you. And that's even if > you walk into one of their locations. I doubt they'd even talk to you if Um, that's just the opposite of my own experience - I buy from them all the time - just got a roll of magnet wire in to re-build a motor - gave 'em my credit-card and shipping address and it showed up the next day. Ditto with the cool little Whitney-Roper hand metal-punch kit. Ditto with the timer for my little pressure-washer. You sure you aren't thinking Grainger? Those boys can be obtuse when they want to. But I've never had a bit of the trouble you relate, with McMaster, for many years now. Strange... Stock Drive Components is a great outfit, and have a lot of the more obscure stuff that is sometimes needed in restoring Old Gear. Cheers John From news at computercollector.com Thu Dec 23 18:33:32 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Help: Looking for IBM timing belt replacement. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041224003332.36731.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> I could use a timing belt for a '68 Chevy... --- John Lawson wrote: > > > On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Joe R. wrote: > > > I doubt McMaster Carr will be of any help. You have to have an account > > with them AND a tax number before they'll sell to you. And that's even if > > you walk into one of their locations. I doubt they'd even talk to you if > > Um, that's just the opposite of my own experience - I buy from them all > the time - just got a roll of magnet wire in to re-build a motor - gave > 'em my credit-card and shipping address and it showed up the next day. > Ditto with the cool little Whitney-Roper hand metal-punch kit. Ditto with > the timer for my little pressure-washer. > > You sure you aren't thinking Grainger? Those boys can be obtuse when > they want to. But I've never had a bit of the trouble you relate, with > McMaster, for many years now. Strange... > > Stock Drive Components is a great outfit, and have a lot of the more > obscure stuff that is sometimes needed in restoring Old Gear. > > > Cheers > > John > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 620 readers and counting! From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Dec 23 18:55:49 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Old Dos Programs In-Reply-To: <200412240031.iBO0VCjd068625@huey.classiccmp.org> from Freek Heite at "Dec 23, 4 06:31:12 pm" Message-ID: <200412240055.QAA08570@floodgap.com> > >Eventually, yes, though they were only distributors for that one (id Software > >actually wrote the Commander Keen series; check out their exorcism of their > >past games, including Wolf and CK, in DOOM II's secret level > > Never saw Commander Keen stuff in DOOM II, only the Wolfenstein level. > I'd be grateful for any hints or tips to call up CK in DOOM II. In keeping to their homage, the ultra secret level in DOOM II is accessed the same way you get to the secret level in the first episode of Wolfenstein (thus from the Wolfenstein level). Gotta beat the cyberdaemon first to see Keen, though :( -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- This message will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck, Jim. -- M:I ---- From cb at mythtech.net Thu Dec 23 20:39:33 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Captain Magneto Message-ID: Anyone here ever played the old Mac game Captain Magneto? Anyone ever win? HOW?!?! I can get the jet pack and I can fly into the castle past the killer spider, but I can't figure out how to put together the rocket. I also can't find the key to open the door on the micro island to get the laser gun. Without the gun, it is next to impossible to kill that bastard spider guarding the castle. If I can't kill him reliably, then I don't think I have a shot at getting the rocket working. I've wanted to beat this game for eons... and every Xmas I think about it as I plan to return to my folks house and memories of sitting playing for hours on end at the 128k Mac come flooding back. So its that time of year again, and I still want to win the damn game! -chris From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Dec 23 21:02:47 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Paging Jay West References: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A0111343F@gd-mail03.oce.nl> <5.2.0.9.0.20041221203528.023aeb08@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <003401c4e965$30115ef0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Sorry Tom..... I've been enjoying a little christmas time away from the puter... I'm back and starting to catch up on email in reverse. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Uban" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 8:37 PM Subject: Paging Jay West > Hi Jay, > > I've sent a couple of emails to you at "Jay West" > from a couple of different paths and I haven't seemed to get any response. > Am I being filtered or ignored or both? > > --tnx > --tom > > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Dec 23 21:07:48 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: clueless eBay seller for today is: References: <20041221165903.665764C68@spies.com> Message-ID: <003701c4e965$bf5c6a50$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> A shroud of mystery indeed. I have about 6 "shrouds" then... I better give the Vatican a call. Odd... the HP1000 M/E/F is certainly one of the better documented computers. There was a shroud of mystery in play when I was working on my first 2100A, but that shroud was not around the computer, it was around my brain :) Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 10:59 AM Subject: clueless eBay seller for today is: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5150357271 > > "A shroud of mystery hangs over the history and specification of this > classic computer system." > > -- > > Good thing he wasn't trying to sell something was really WAS obscure. > > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Dec 23 21:18:34 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: clueless eBay seller for today is: References: <20041221165903.665764C68@spies.com> <003701c4e965$bf5c6a50$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <007601c4e967$40e0bcb0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Actually... the only shroud of mystery surrounding that computer... is since the I/O cards have obviously all been pulled... are there any memory cards at all in the front backplane. THAT'S the mystery :) Jay From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Dec 23 21:51:23 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: REPLY Re: Off-topic message confusion References: Message-ID: <008901c4e96b$d69555a0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I have finally gotten around to reading this thread with interest and (some) amusement. First - Sellam, I'm not dead yet :) My view is quite simple. The cctech view of the list should be free of anything off-topic at all. Nothing but strictly on-topic posts. I think everyone agrees with that and there's pretty solid consensus on the list with regards to that one. However cctalk by definition allows some wandering into off-topicness. Yet it is still a list for classic computers, not for extended discussion about cars or guns or politics (including exopolitics) or alien abduction or personal attacks or whatever. The occasional (short-lived) off-topic thread is fine. I think this allows it to be more of a community than cctech (definitely not meant to be a slam on cctech). So the deal is this: in return for me not killing off the cctalk list and just having 100% on-topicness, I reserve the right to squash threads and "correct" people who wander offtopic too long or too often, or who get antagonistic to others. That is quite a thankless job as you can't please everyone and some will think I'm being too strict and others will say I'm too loose. And as has been proven by several posts by specific people who shall remain nameless - sometimes I'm accused of both by the same person at the same time *GRIN*. If I don't set some guidelines, people will be afraid to post a quip or hesitate before a pleasant off-topic post. Sometimes that's good. Most times it's not. So here's the guidelines I use: Direct personal inflammatory attacks are never ok, period. If you want to slam someone in a cutting malicious fashion - take it to private email. We don't need to hear your beefs. Political/religious inflamatory discussions are never ok either. This is hard for me because I'm quite into political discussion, but well, this isn't the place for it. This doesn't mean an occasional comment inside an on-topic thread can't say something mildly political. We just don't want to delve into a long political discussion, or more importantly, don't phrase it as a put-down to others. I will say that some of the initial comments that generated this thread were definitely something I should have dev/null'd before it hit the list. Inappropriate. My bad for letting it go on. Anything else off-topic - in moderation (no pun intended) is ok. Just not Sellams ass. Please. Geeze kids... get along and play nice! Jay From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Dec 23 21:54:59 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:32 2005 Subject: Off-topic message confusion References: Message-ID: <009201c4e96c$56ce0aa0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > Using the list as an alternative to Google, which "some" folks do, is > violating the spirit of the purpose of CCTALK. At least have the courtesy > to take blatantly off-topic questions off-line (and SPECIFICALLY REQUEST > that any off-topic answers go to private e-mail). I am quite guilty occasionaly of using the list on things I should google for. But those things are definitely on-topic. Sometimes it's because I'm lazy. Sometimes it's because I get way too many responses from google to sift through. Other times it's because I'm trying to start up an on-topic conversation on the list in order to steer it away from an offtopic one currently in progress. Hint. Jay From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Dec 23 21:56:09 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Off-topic message confusion References: <41C87C9F.1050603@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <009d01c4e96c$80829dc0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Doc wrote... > Nonononono, Sellam! > > *I* am the moderator! Yer All my moderators :) From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Dec 23 22:46:20 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Computer Chronicles online Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041223223921.050d41f8@mail> While browsing the Wayback Machine, I found that Archive.org now has all the episodes of Computer Chronicles online. Six hundred eighteen episodes, 1983 to 2002. Amazing. Arranged by keyword, with show descriptions. MPEG4 are about 78 meg, MP4 half that. http://www.archive.org/movies/computerchronicles.php - John From tomj at wps.com Thu Dec 23 23:30:46 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: CBBS version 3.5, and other musty stuff Message-ID: OK! I finally used 2, 3 brain cells, worked out the problem with my Centrol Data 64K RAM and got my CP/M machine working fine. (ANother SRAM dies in the Seattle 16K card... a bad sign). Ran a half day's worth of mem tests (good ones) seems OK. Took the bad bearing out of the noisy B: drive (it was a sealed ball bearing ass'y, not a plain like I thought; I washed it out, added some light lube, wrote down the part number, will order one, it's quieter in the mean time). Got the serial port working (simply plugged into the "PC" serial card (PCMCIA) in my linux laptop), default 9600 baud worked as-is! Using minicom on linux. XMODEM protocol failed; not sure what the problem is. Possibly minicom's XMODEM doesn't do checksum xmodem, only crc, my program (telink) doesn't do crc. So I did everything as ASCII. I converted a few diskettes worth, most notably CBBS 3.5, 1980 version. I had a read error on MODEM 2.17' diskette, but a head clean might solve it (the head goops up every 30 minutes... not a good sign). This was just a half-assed first-pass at the job. I really should simply plug the drive into linux and copy them, I'll probably do that, but I want to shake down the system too. http://wps.com/CPM-80/ Just a raw dir for now, it'll grow into a real web page. From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Dec 23 23:42:04 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: hp7900 References: <20041210093923.75919.qmail@web52210.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001f01c4e97b$4c4ab470$739f6d44@SONYDIGITALED> sounds great let us know how you do with this! Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "david pasha" To: Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 2:39 AM Subject: hp7900 >i design one board install in PC for example > in PII 333Mhz and connect to HP2100 (connect to I/O for > HP7900A disc in 2100) HP2100 think connected to hp7900 > but it connect to new board . new borad work like hp7900 > data on hp7900 save in file on PC this board get data > from PC and send it to HP2100 or get from HP2100 and send > to PC for replace in file. all thing work like hp7900 > stuts word ,addressing,send and recive data. > oceanid987@yahoo.com > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? > > From news at computercollector.com Fri Dec 24 00:58:23 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Apple IIc dimensions? Message-ID: <20041224065823.3063.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> I'm preparing some space on my desk for an incoming IIc -- does anyone know its physical dimensions or have one they can measure for me? Couldn't find the answer on the web... ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 620 readers and counting! From gordon at gjcp.net Fri Dec 24 03:36:04 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: CBBS version 3.5, and other musty stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41CBE304.2070106@gjcp.net> Tom Jennings wrote: > Took the bad bearing out of the noisy B: drive (it was a sealed > ball bearing ass'y, not a plain like I thought; I washed it out, > added some light lube, wrote down the part number, will order > one, it's quieter in the mean time). They don't make 'em like that any more... As I said, there's no such thing as "a bearing for a $machine" - except in very unusual circumstances. Every bearing is made to a given size, and machinery manufacturers pick one that suits their needs. For example, I discovered that the ball races that form the timing belt tensioners on my '79 Citroen GSA (two, one for each head) are also used (only one though) on Fiat Tipos as timing belt tensioners, Zetor tractors as a gearbox shaft bearing and Bosch washing machines as a drum bearing... Gordon. From foxvideo at wincom.net Fri Dec 24 05:11:41 2004 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Apple IIc dimensions? In-Reply-To: <20041224065823.3063.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041224065823.3063.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20041224060958.01c7bbf8@smtp.wincom.net> At 01:58 AM 24/12/2004, you wrote: >I'm preparing some space on my desk for an incoming IIc -- does anyone >know its >physical dimensions or have one they can measure for me? Couldn't find the >answer on the web... Apple IIc is about 12 inches square, 2 1/2 inches thick, and with the monitor, about thirteen inches high. Cheers Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Dec 24 06:49:59 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Off-topic message confusion In-Reply-To: <009201c4e96c$56ce0aa0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <009201c4e96c$56ce0aa0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <1103892599.32067.2.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-12-23 at 21:54 -0600, Jay West wrote: > > Using the list as an alternative to Google, which "some" folks do, is > > violating the spirit of the purpose of CCTALK. At least have the courtesy > > to take blatantly off-topic questions off-line (and SPECIFICALLY REQUEST > > that any off-topic answers go to private e-mail). > > I am quite guilty occasionaly of using the list on things I should google > for. How old is google anyway? Presumably it'll be on topic in a year or two? ;) From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Dec 24 07:01:44 2004 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Off-topic message confusion In-Reply-To: <1103892599.32067.2.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <009201c4e96c$56ce0aa0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <1103892599.32067.2.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <33955.64.169.63.74.1103893304.squirrel@64.169.63.74> > How old is google anyway? Presumably it'll be on topic in a year or > two? ;) And did anyone save an old Google for the archives? :-) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 24 08:13:30 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Help: Looking for IBM timing belt replacement. In-Reply-To: <20041224003332.36731.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041224091330.00793b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> The '68 chevy didn't use a timing belt, it used a timing chain. Just like all the REAL American cars! Personally I wish they all still did. I hate these stupid rubber timing belts! All they're good for is generating revenue for the delaers when they slip or break and you end having to buy half of a new engine or a new car. Joe At 04:33 PM 12/23/04 -0800, you wrote: >I could use a timing belt for a '68 Chevy... > > > > >--- John Lawson wrote: > >> >> >> On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Joe R. wrote: >> >> > I doubt McMaster Carr will be of any help. You have to have an account >> > with them AND a tax number before they'll sell to you. And that's even if >> > you walk into one of their locations. I doubt they'd even talk to you if >> >> Um, that's just the opposite of my own experience - I buy from them all >> the time - just got a roll of magnet wire in to re-build a motor - gave >> 'em my credit-card and shipping address and it showed up the next day. >> Ditto with the cool little Whitney-Roper hand metal-punch kit. Ditto with >> the timer for my little pressure-washer. >> >> You sure you aren't thinking Grainger? Those boys can be obtuse when >> they want to. But I've never had a bit of the trouble you relate, with >> McMaster, for many years now. Strange... >> >> Stock Drive Components is a great outfit, and have a lot of the more >> obscure stuff that is sometimes needed in restoring Old Gear. >> >> >> Cheers >> >> John >> >> > > >===== >Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! >-- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address >-- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us >-- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all > >Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com > >Contact us at news@computercollector.com > >620 readers and counting! > From zmerch at 30below.com Fri Dec 24 08:58:59 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Off-topic message confusion In-Reply-To: <33955.64.169.63.74.1103893304.squirrel@64.169.63.74> References: <1103892599.32067.2.camel@weka.localdomain> <009201c4e96c$56ce0aa0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <1103892599.32067.2.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041224094733.00b03710@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Eric Smith may have mentioned these words: > > How old is google anyway? Presumably it'll be on topic in a year or > > two? ;) Doubtful, Yahoo's only 10 years old, according to one reference - and it even includes what Yahoo originally stood for: http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum9/5082.htm When this list was started, AltaVista was king with Yahoo not far behind, IIRC; Google didn't come around for a few years after that. >And did anyone save an old Google for the archives? :-) Isn't that what Google's for? Saving things like [g]mail forever, even after you delete it??? :-P http://web.archive.org/web/19990209043945/google.stanford.edu/googlehardware.html According to that, google's got just over 4 years to go before being ontopic... {{ I just *gotta* add this!!! ;-) }} Ya know, a simple google search found this and more! http://www.google.com/search?q=how+old+is+google Merry Xmas! Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com Hi! I am a .signature virus. Copy me into your .signature to join in! From zmerch at 30below.com Fri Dec 24 09:04:31 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: REPLY Re: Off-topic message confusion In-Reply-To: <008901c4e96b$d69555a0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041224093342.04c565a8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Jay West may have mentioned these words: [snippage] >If I don't set some guidelines, people will be afraid to post a quip or >hesitate before a pleasant off-topic post. Sometimes that's good. Most >times it's not. So here's the guidelines I use: And IMNSHO, this is *your* list now, Jay. I think you've earned it -- you've put in a *lot* of work to keep this community alive and well-homed. And just in case I haven't said it enough: 10 PRINT "Thank You! "; 20 GOTO 10 :-) >I will say that some of the initial comments that generated this thread >were definitely something I should have dev/null'd before it hit the list. >Inappropriate. My bad for letting it go on. No it's not. That would be like saying it's the cop's fault your kid got high on crack because the cop was on vacation and wasn't there to parent your kid for ya. You already moderate one list - why should you [have the extra burden to] moderate them both? It's up to *us* to be civil to one another - to be the parents, if you will - and not get suckered into (or start) something wildly off-topic. Maybe I'm full of condensed milk, but it's *our* fault things got out of hand -- not yours. Merry Xmas! Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers _??_ zmerch@30below.com (?||?) If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead _)(_ disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From james at jdfogg.com Fri Dec 24 09:13:31 2004 From: james at jdfogg.com (james) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Help: Looking for IBM timing belt replacement. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041224091330.00793b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041224091330.00793b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1103901211.2020.2.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> On Fri, 2004-12-24 at 09:13, Joe R. wrote: > The '68 chevy didn't use a timing belt, it used a timing chain. Just > like all the REAL American cars! Personally I wish they all still did. I > hate these stupid rubber timing belts! All they're good for is generating > revenue for the delaers when they slip or break and you end having to buy > half of a new engine or a new car. Not all foreign (non US) cars use rubber band drive. Both my Suzuki's (96 4cyl and 2002 6cyl) use a chain. Some Mitsubishi's do too. Some (mitsu's) have convoluted giant wandering chains that need oil-pressure powered tensioners that raise hell as the engine gets older. From vcf at siconic.com Fri Dec 24 09:15:44 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Google (was Re: Off-topic message confusion) In-Reply-To: <1103892599.32067.2.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Dec 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Thu, 2004-12-23 at 21:54 -0600, Jay West wrote: > > > Using the list as an alternative to Google, which "some" folks do, is > > > violating the spirit of the purpose of CCTALK. At least have the courtesy > > > to take blatantly off-topic questions off-line (and SPECIFICALLY REQUEST > > > that any off-topic answers go to private e-mail). > > > > I am quite guilty occasionaly of using the list on things I should google > > for. > > > How old is google anyway? Presumably it'll be on topic in a year or > two? ;) Google's first production cluster server (a homebrew job using off-the-shelf motherboards mounted on corkboard) is already in the Computer History Museum's collection (and in the main exhibit area no less). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri Dec 24 09:19:28 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Off-topic message confusion In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041224094733.00b03710@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Dec 2004, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that Eric Smith may have mentioned these words: > > > How old is google anyway? Presumably it'll be on topic in a year or > > > two? ;) > > Doubtful, Yahoo's only 10 years old, according to one reference - and it > even includes what Yahoo originally stood for: > > http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum9/5082.htm > > When this list was started, AltaVista was king with Yahoo not far behind, > IIRC; Google didn't come around for a few years after that. Interestingly enough, we first learned about Google from someone posting a message to this list about a "new experimental search engine". I wish I could find that message to see who it was that posted it. It would have been back in 1997 or 1998. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Dec 24 09:41:04 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Help: Looking for IBM timing belt replacement. In-Reply-To: <1103901211.2020.2.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041224091330.00793b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1103901211.2020.2.camel@kendall.jdfogg.com> Message-ID: <1103902864.32080.45.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-12-24 at 10:13 -0500, james wrote: > On Fri, 2004-12-24 at 09:13, Joe R. wrote: > > The '68 chevy didn't use a timing belt, it used a timing chain. Just > > like all the REAL American cars! Personally I wish they all still did. I > > hate these stupid rubber timing belts! All they're good for is generating > > revenue for the delaers when they slip or break and you end having to buy > > half of a new engine or a new car. > > Not all foreign (non US) cars use rubber band drive. > > Both my Suzuki's (96 4cyl and 2002 6cyl) use a chain. Some Mitsubishi's > do too. Some (mitsu's) have convoluted giant wandering chains that need > oil-pressure powered tensioners that raise hell as the engine gets > older. My '72 Triumph's lubricates the chains primarily through tiny holes in the tensioners; component wear tends to be less of an issue than any contamination to the oil supply which could block the holes. Chain replacement interval is 15k miles too (whereas most modern belts will do 30k or more). Belts or chains isn't really an issue - both have their strengths and weaknesses. Providing replacement's done within the service interval (and in anything other than a mid-engined car it tends to be an easy and cheap DIY job!) there shouldn't be any problems unless something else is seriously wrong with the engine which is causing extra stress or premature wear... Hmm, to keep this vaguely on topic I should post a picture up somewhere of the oil lubrication system on John Harper's Bombe rebuild at Bletchley sometime; the engineering's pretty incredible stuff. cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Dec 24 09:48:44 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Off-topic message confusion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1103903324.32067.53.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-12-24 at 07:19 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Fri, 24 Dec 2004, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > Rumor has it that Eric Smith may have mentioned these words: > > > > How old is google anyway? Presumably it'll be on topic in a year or > > > > two? ;) > > > > Doubtful, Yahoo's only 10 years old, according to one reference - and it > > even includes what Yahoo originally stood for: > > > > http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum9/5082.htm > > > > When this list was started, AltaVista was king with Yahoo not far behind, > > IIRC; Google didn't come around for a few years after that. > > Interestingly enough, we first learned about Google from someone posting a > message to this list about a "new experimental search engine". I wish I > could find that message to see who it was that posted it. It would have > been back in 1997 or 1998. I didn't realise it was that recent (I would have guessed at 1996). Annoyingly I know I was using the web occasionally in the early days, but don't remember exactly which years even (1994 or 1995) or when I first used a search engine, or any specific instances of what I actually used the web for. My memory's too bad these days, and I don't have much in the way of personal data from those days (which is an interesting point - at least these days storage is cheap enough that people don't tend to delete anything; shame there's less stuff of interest to actually preserve though! :-) cheers J. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Dec 24 09:50:09 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: OT: merry stuff Message-ID: <1103903409.32080.54.camel@weka.localdomain> merry xmas (where x = ?) thought I'd get there first :-P enjoy yourselves this weekend, people! From r.stek at snet.net Fri Dec 24 10:07:04 2004 From: r.stek at snet.net (Robert Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Votrax PSS manual Message-ID: <200412241627.iBOGREjd078432@huey.classiccmp.org> Jonathan - I have a xerox copy which I will PDF and send to you and make generally available. It may take a week or two given the holiday madness, but I will get it to you. Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From williams.dan at gmail.com Fri Dec 24 10:31:44 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: OT: merry stuff In-Reply-To: <1103903409.32080.54.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1103903409.32080.54.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <26c11a64041224083131cf4c0a@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 15:50:09 +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > > merry xmas (where x = ?) > > thought I'd get there first :-P > > enjoy yourselves this weekend, people! > > I second that and I'll get in first with a happy new year as well fo people who are away. Dan From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Dec 24 10:38:29 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: OT: merry stuff Message-ID: <0412241638.AA26053@ivan.Harhan.ORG> ... and Happy Yuletide and Blessed Be for those who know what that means. :-) MS From zmerch at 30below.com Fri Dec 24 10:47:00 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: OT: merry stuff In-Reply-To: <26c11a64041224083131cf4c0a@mail.gmail.com> References: <1103903409.32080.54.camel@weka.localdomain> <1103903409.32080.54.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041224114248.04b0e2e8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Dan Williams may have mentioned these words: >On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 15:50:09 +0000, Jules Richardson > wrote: > > > > merry xmas (where x = ?) Well, in computer connectivity, xmit == transmit, so x == trans, right? So xmas for us should be transmas! ;^> > > enjoy yourselves this weekend, people! > > >I second that and I'll get in first with a happy new year as well fo >people who are away. Hear, Hear! For our Canadian friends out there, "Merry Crystal, and a Happy Clear Beer!" Who remembers that one? ;-P Happy Hollydaze! Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Bugs of a feather flock together." sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Russell Nelson zmerch@30below.com | From tpeters at mixcom.com Fri Dec 24 11:14:38 2004 From: tpeters at mixcom.com (Tom Peters) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: OT: merry stuff In-Reply-To: <1103903409.32080.54.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041224111349.00b60db8@localhost> Tom's Corollary to Clark's Law: Any sufficiently advanced political correctness is indistinguishable from sarcasm. -- Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasions and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all; Plus A fiscally successful, personally fulfilling, and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great, (not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country), and without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith, choice of computer platform, or sexual orientation of the wisher. Disclaimer: By accepting this greeting, you are accepting these terms. This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for her/himself or theirs, and is void where prohibited by law, and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher. This wish is warranted to perform within the usual application of good tidings for a period of one year, or until the issuance of another holiday greeting, whichever comes first. In other words.... Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! At 03:50 PM 12/24/2004 +0000, you wrote: >merry xmas (where x = ?) > >thought I'd get there first :-P > >enjoy yourselves this weekend, people! [Science] "Then again, e=mc^2 may only be a local phenomenon." -- Einstein --... ...-- -.. . -. ----. --.- --.- -... tpeters@nospam.mixcom.com (remove "nospam") N9QQB (amateur radio) "HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB ADDRESS http//www.mixweb.com/tpeters 43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square EN53wc WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, Cisco Certified CCNA From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Dec 24 11:15:16 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Help: Looking for IBM timing belt replacement. Message-ID: <200412241715.JAA20357@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Grainger claims to be a whole saler. They like to always deal with companies. Even though not incorporated, they have no problem selling to our small water system company ( 7 homes ) but won't sell to me as an individual. If it is taxable, they don't need a tax number. I'd suspect that if you gave them most any fictitious name they would sell to you without question, even in small amounts. Dwight >From: "Tom Jennings" > >On Thu, 23 Dec 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> I doubt McMaster Carr will be of any help. You have to have an account >> with them AND a tax number before they'll sell to you. And that's even if >> you walk into one of their locations. I doubt they'd even talk to you if >> they knew that you're in Europe. > >Grainger is like that too, never could figure out what their >problem is. > >MSC Direct doesn't have that problem. I buy for work and >personally. I do simple $30 orders, online, delivered >to home. YOu can call and talk to (somtimes) knowledgable >people. Overall prices are OK, not great; but when you need >only one item or a small quantity (I just bought a bunch of >odd plastics from them) it doesn't matter. > >Ask for a free catalog; is 4" thick, thousands of pages, hard >cover! Free! > >www.mscdirect.com > > From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Dec 24 11:28:09 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: CBBS version 3.5, and other musty stuff Message-ID: <200412241728.JAA20362@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Tom Jennings" > >Using minicom on linux. XMODEM protocol failed; not sure what >the problem is. Possibly minicom's XMODEM doesn't do checksum >xmodem, only crc, my program (telink) doesn't do crc. So I did >everything as ASCII. > ---snip--- Hi Tom I recently used Xmodem from Windoz and found that the binaries didn't work with the ascii handshake turned on. It worked fine with the setting for no handshake at all. Dwight From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 24 12:13:24 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Id'ing disk cartridges Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041224131324.00914100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Anybody have any suggestions aout how to identify what drive/system these are for? I picked up several 15" removeable disk cartridges earlier this week but I don't know what drive or system they're for. It looks like they came from a GenRad test station so it was probably some kind of DEC based system. A couple of the disks say "Scopus Corporation System 90". Anybody have any idea what that is? One disk was made by Magntic Data and is a model 46. Another was made by Nashua and it's model 4416-16. I just found another marking that says one of the disk is for a GenRad 1796 ssytem. Anybody know anything aboutt the Genrad test stations? I think I have all of the system disks for that system. FWIW the system was used for testing a transponder for the MilStar satellite. Joe From gsutton9503 at wavecable.com Fri Dec 24 12:30:34 2004 From: gsutton9503 at wavecable.com (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: OT: merry stuff In-Reply-To: <0412241638.AA26053@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0412241638.AA26053@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <41CC604A.3070007@wavecable.com> Michael Sokolov wrote: >... and Happy Yuletide and Blessed Be for those who know what that >means. :-) > >MS > > > And for the real geeky ones among us... Happy Life Day! :D From GFisher at tristonecapital.com Fri Dec 24 12:39:39 2004 From: GFisher at tristonecapital.com (Gary Fisher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: OT: merry stuff Message-ID: To all on the list and especially those that have helped me over the past few months have a very Merry Christmas and a Happy (and prosperous) New Year! Gary Fisher This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Unless otherwise stated, opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the author and are not endorsed by the author's employer. From pds3 at ix.netcom.com Fri Dec 24 12:45:00 2004 From: pds3 at ix.netcom.com (pds3@ix.netcom.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Stuff for sale, cheap Message-ID: <5352816.1103913904283.JavaMail.root@gonzo.psp.pas.earthlink.net> I could use some RL02 packs. Could pay, say $5 each? How many do you have. Thank you, Shannon Hoskins -----Original Message----- From: William Donzelli Sent: Dec 15, 2004 12:56 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Stuff for sale, cheap I picked up the pile of DECstuff located in White Plains, NY the other night, and most I really don't want. I am keeping the rack, PDP-11/23, RL02s and some packs, and maybe a VT100, but the rest I don't need. So here it goes, cheap: (many) RL02 disk packs (some I think have MUMPS stuff) (2 or 3) LA50 printers (little desktop things) (2 or 3) VT100oid keyboards (may have missing keycaps) Make silly offers for this stuff - just give me something for my time and gas fetching the stuff. Shipping is from 10512. Come to think of it, someone local could probably easily talk me out of the whole pile. I must say it is not too pretty. Unrelated, I also have an ancient video game - one of those analog/digital hybrids (ping/squash/practice/soccer - the ultra cheesy games from the mid 1970s). It is a Bentley Compuvision. The paddles are included, but one is missing the knob (the pot shaft is still there). I was told it still works, but did not try it out. Also accepting silly offers for the thing.). Oh, and I also see I have a tube of Altera EP610SC-15 EPLD chips. These are surface mount - I assume unblown, but can't be sure. 17 chips is all. Same deal. Please reply off list. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Fri Dec 24 13:24:34 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim stephens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Apollo Guidance Computer prototype replica References: Message-ID: <41CC6CF2.A81DE625@msm.umr.edu> full simulation of Colossus 249, and Luminary131, on a virtual AGC block 2 http://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/index.html I was thinking blinken lights though this fellow is light years ahead of what I could do. Also I would think the project done on a single small board with an fpga would be a better way to do it, brought out to the DSKY, or built into it. I was wondering what the annunciators, and servo outputs were hooked to. If this guy is not running the full colossus, then there won't be a problem when the program tries to gimble the descent engine, or is trying to track the radar in high, low or auto mode. very impressive though. Jim Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > This is going to blow your mind. This guy built a replica of the Apollo > Guidance Computer prototype circa 1964 using 1960s era components. > > http://starfish.osfn.org/AGCreplica/ > > Do I sense here a Best of Show award at the next VCF? :) > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rcini at optonline.net Fri Dec 24 13:33:01 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Apollo Guidance Computer prototype replica In-Reply-To: <41CC6CF2.A81DE625@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: <000801c4e9ef$6256d590$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Interestingly, I was thinking the same thing. Although I wouldn't go as dense as an FPGA, I wouldn't do wire-wrap either. I was thinking of reducing it to a small VME enclosure with each of the major functional boards on a single VME board. Somewhere he must have the schematics such that you can grind it through an PCB/CAD + autorouter and come up with four VME boards while preserving the individual TTLs. It still gives you the feel of "old" but much easier for people to build. I saw a Java-based DSKY simulator, so I would definitely want to add a realistic DSKY enclosure. Radar and landing data could be emulated by another computer, feeding the output of one like a tape into the AGC. Neat project. Rich -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of jim stephens Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 2:25 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only Subject: Re: Apollo Guidance Computer prototype replica full simulation of Colossus 249, and Luminary131, on a virtual AGC block 2 http://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/index.html I was thinking blinken lights though this fellow is light years ahead of what I could do. Also I would think the project done on a single small board with an fpga would be a better way to do it, brought out to the DSKY, or built into it. I was wondering what the annunciators, and servo outputs were hooked to. If this guy is not running the full colossus, then there won't be a problem when the program tries to gimble the descent engine, or is trying to track the radar in high, low or auto mode. very impressive though. Jim Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > This is going to blow your mind. This guy built a replica of the Apollo > Guidance Computer prototype circa 1964 using 1960s era components. > > http://starfish.osfn.org/AGCreplica/ > > Do I sense here a Best of Show award at the next VCF? :) > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Dec 24 13:38:51 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: OT: merry stuff In-Reply-To: <1103903409.32080.54.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1103903409.32080.54.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <2672.192.168.0.7.1103917131.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> > merry xmas (where x = ?) > > thought I'd get there first :-P > > enjoy yourselves this weekend, people! Aye, may all your presents come in 8 bits :o) (or 12, or 16) -- adrian/witchy Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UKs biggest home computer collection? From aek at spies.com Fri Dec 24 13:41:42 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Id'ing disk cartridges Message-ID: <20041224194142.63D254CE5@spies.com> 4416-16 probably 16 sector. if they are 5440 (RL02-looking) probably not that interesting, but if they are 2315 (RK05-looking) the pdp8 guys will want them. From wayne.smith at charter.net Fri Dec 24 13:54:53 2004 From: wayne.smith at charter.net (Wayne Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Google [was Re: Off-topic message confusion] In-Reply-To: <200412241800.iBOI03jg079184@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000001c4e9f2$6fb11450$04000100@Wayne> > On Fri, 24 Dec 2004, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > Rumor has it that Eric Smith may have mentioned these words: > > > > How old is google anyway? Presumably it'll be on topic > in a year > > > > or two? ;) > > > > Doubtful, Yahoo's only 10 years old, according to one > reference - and > > it even includes what Yahoo originally stood for: > > > > http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum9/5082.htm > > > > When this list was started, AltaVista was king with Yahoo not far > > behind, IIRC; Google didn't come around for a few years after that. > > Interestingly enough, we first learned about Google from > someone posting a message to this list about a "new > experimental search engine". I wish I could find that > message to see who it was that posted it. It would have been > back in 1997 or 1998. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail If you search it on the Wayback Machine the earliest date it gives is 11/11/98, which takes you here: http://web.archive.org/web/19981111184551/http://google.com/ and gives you two links to a search engine "prototype." Clicking on the first of them takes you here: http://web.archive.org/web/19981111183552/google.stanford.edu/ Note the stanford.edu address. -W If From wacarder at usit.net Fri Dec 24 14:10:16 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Speaking of RK05 disk cartridges ... In-Reply-To: <20041224194142.63D254CE5@spies.com> Message-ID: > 4416-16 > > probably 16 sector. if they are 5440 (RL02-looking) probably > not that interesting, but if they are 2315 (RK05-looking) the pdp8 > guys will want them. > I have some (about 8 or 10) 16 sector RK05 packs, which work in a PDP-8. I need some good clean 12 sector RK05 packs for my PDP-11. I finally got my 3rd RK05 drive working a couple days ago, so now I have three good RK05 drives on my 11/40. Does anyone out there have any spare 12 sector RK05 packs that they don't need? Does anyone need some 16 sector packs (which I think are less common than the 12 sector RK05s)? If so, contact me off-list. Merry Christmas to everyone here on the list! Ashley Carder From tomj at wps.com Fri Dec 24 14:21:10 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: CBBS version 3.5, and other musty stuff In-Reply-To: <200412241728.JAA20362@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200412241728.JAA20362@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: > >From: "Tom Jennings" > >Using minicom on linux. XMODEM protocol failed; not sure what > >the problem is. Possibly minicom's XMODEM doesn't do checksum > >xmodem, only crc, my program (telink) doesn't do crc. So I did > >everything as ASCII. On Fri, 24 Dec 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > I recently used Xmodem from Windoz and found that > the binaries didn't work with the ascii handshake > turned on. It worked fine with the setting for no > handshake at all. Well, the CP/M side certainly has no protocol issues, the program talks to the IO port hardware directly: foo: in someport ani somebit jz foo mov a, c out someotherport ret Minicom has no XON/XOFF, and no hardware handshake, and in any case, only three wires. I really think it's code incompatibility. The original xmodem did checksum per block only; CRC was added later. There's some trick to autodetect, I forget what it is. My xmodem code is really old, old enough I had to work the protocol out from Ward's code; mine's written in BDS C. (I documented it back then and will dig up the doc. I probably wasn't the only one to do this.). It could be simply my xmodem protocol is bad. It's not really a good way to send the files, but I wanted to get everything working again. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 24 14:32:10 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Id'ing disk cartridges In-Reply-To: <20041224194142.63D254CE5@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041224153210.0098e1e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:41 AM 12/24/04 -0800, you wrote: > > >4416-16 > >probably 16 sector. Oops! Yes, I forgot to mention that. They do have 16 sectors. if they are 5440 (RL02-looking) probably >not that interesting, but if they are 2315 (RK05-looking) the pdp8 >guys will want them. I'm not a DEC person so I don't know what a RK05 or RL02 looks like. Joe > From wacarder at usit.net Fri Dec 24 14:54:46 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Id'ing disk cartridges In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041224153210.0098e1e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > > > >4416-16 > > > >probably 16 sector. > > Oops! Yes, I forgot to mention that. They do have 16 sectors. > > > if they are 5440 (RL02-looking) probably > >not that interesting, but if they are 2315 (RK05-looking) the pdp8 > >guys will want them. > > I'm not a DEC person so I don't know what a RK05 or RL02 looks like. > > Joe Joe, Here's an RL02 pack: http://i15.ebayimg.com/02/i/02/fd/50/3a_1_b.JPG and here's an RK05: http://www.woffordwitch.com/images/JeffDisk.jpg Ashley From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 24 15:08:12 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Id'ing disk cartridges In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20041224153210.0098e1e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041224160812.00984c70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:54 PM 12/24/04 -0500, you wrote: >> > >> >4416-16 >> > >> >probably 16 sector. >> >> Oops! Yes, I forgot to mention that. They do have 16 sectors. >> >> >> if they are 5440 (RL02-looking) probably >> >not that interesting, but if they are 2315 (RK05-looking) the pdp8 >> >guys will want them. >> >> I'm not a DEC person so I don't know what a RK05 or RL02 looks like. >> >> Joe > >Joe, > >Here's an RL02 pack: >http://i15.ebayimg.com/02/i/02/fd/50/3a_1_b.JPG > >and here's an RK05: >http://www.woffordwitch.com/images/JeffDisk.jpg > >Ashley > OK it's a RK05 style. Al said: but if they are 2315 (RK05-looking) the pdp8 guys will want them. I did some searching about the Genrad 1796 test station and found that some of them were PDP-8 based so it's probably safe to guess that that's what these are for. I have four disks. One says System Disk, two are Test Disk (1 of 3 and 2 of 3) and the last one is a diagnostics disk. Joe From Arno_1983 at gmx.de Fri Dec 24 15:47:47 2004 From: Arno_1983 at gmx.de (Arno1983) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Merry X-mas to everyone; Token Ring Christmas gift Message-ID: The subject says it all... I'd like to wish everybody in "the hobby" a merry Christmas and, as I won't be online too often until 09.01.05, quite possibly a happy new year as well. Thanks to all who - both regularly or sporadically - populate this list and, friendly and helpful, contribute to the massive amount of knowledge as well as to the unique atmosphere here. Double thanks to the people who maintain the list server, moderate postings and generally "do the work", thus allowing this community to flourish. Last but not least, thanks also to everyone who helped me with the questions and tasks I was personally involved with - the network gear transport, the HP disk drive documentation and everything else I forget right now. Also, somebody has a Christmas Gift for a true Token Ring enthusiast (might even suffice for more of them); I hope he doesn't mind me sending it here - he didn't react to private mail suggesting he might crosspost it here: > From: Porkchop > Subject: [rescue] For Rescue: Token Ring! > To: rescue@sunhelp.org > > My employer moved from Token Ring to Ethernet a few years ago. > Finally, the rooms used to store the old 3,000+ port network will be > needed for something else. > > Its all IBM. We have bridges, 8270s (managed token ring switches), > CAUs (controlled hubs), LAMs (expansion options for the CAUs...25 > extra ports per LAM), a few MAUs (uncontrolled hubs)... the CAUs have > fiber options, the 8270s I think have [fiber] ATM cards and some have > fiber token ring cards. All have copper token ring. This is a mix of > type1, type2, rj-11, and biconic fiber. Mostly RJ-11. > > We also have three very large ATM switches, but they will probably be > going a separate way. > > Here's the catch. You gotta take it all. I'm guesstimating 30 cubic > yards...its been a while since I've been over there but I'll of > course give a more accurate approximation to anyone interested. > Serious offers only, please. I don't want to bring up an option only > to have it fall through. 1-5 month timeframe. > > How much you offer isn't important. Minimum bid is $1...we actually > need the magical $1. Everyone in IT would like to see it go to a > better place than a landfill... > > Mid Hudson Valley, New York...2 hours north of NYC. > -porkchop There already were some "interested reactions" on the rescue list, but of course nobody knows if one of them is gonna work out. If this load is aquired, I might well be interested in some of this stuff; I've got some Token Ring NICs at home and a few more inbound, but neither cabling nor a MAU/CAU yet. Yours sincerely, so long (and thanks for all the fish :-) Arno Kletzander Stud. Hilfskraft Informatik Sammlung Erlangen --- www.iser.uni-erlangen.de From vcf at siconic.com Fri Dec 24 16:12:39 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Off-topic message confusion In-Reply-To: <1103903324.32067.53.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Dec 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Fri, 2004-12-24 at 07:19 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Fri, 24 Dec 2004, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > > > Rumor has it that Eric Smith may have mentioned these words: > > > > > How old is google anyway? Presumably it'll be on topic in a year or > > > > > two? ;) > > > > > > Doubtful, Yahoo's only 10 years old, according to one reference - and it > > > even includes what Yahoo originally stood for: > > > > > > http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum9/5082.htm > > > > > > When this list was started, AltaVista was king with Yahoo not far behind, > > > IIRC; Google didn't come around for a few years after that. > > > > Interestingly enough, we first learned about Google from someone posting a > > message to this list about a "new experimental search engine". I wish I > > could find that message to see who it was that posted it. It would have > > been back in 1997 or 1998. > > I didn't realise it was that recent (I would have guessed at 1996). In 1996, eBay was still a small-fry. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Dec 24 16:41:27 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: OT: merry stuff In-Reply-To: <41CC604A.3070007@wavecable.com> References: <0412241638.AA26053@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <41CC604A.3070007@wavecable.com> Message-ID: <20041224144047.R76792@shell.lmi.net> > And for the real geeky ones among us... > Happy Life Day! :D Happy Newton's Day ? From dmabry at mich.com Fri Dec 24 17:18:32 2004 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: Intel iPDS in general Message-ID: <41CCA3C8.7020102@mich.com> All this talk about the Intel iPDS has peaked my interest, at least for now. So I have been doing a little investigation on what exactly I have and here are some of the details. The iPDS is an 8085-based portable development system. PDS was said to stand for Personal Development System or Portable Development System. Intel's manual called it Personal Development System, so that must be it. The main processor board (and it was one monolithic system board with cables to the keyboard, crt, and floppy drive. Besides the main cpu with 64KB of ram, there was a second 8085 that implemented the keyboard and crt terminal. So the main cpu only talked through an I/O port to get "console in" and "console out". The main board also had an 8272 (I think that was the chip) to control the floppy drive. It had one internal 96-tpi double-sided floppy drive that held about 650K bytes. It used MFM encoding, I guess required by the 8272. There were three connectors on the back panel for I/O. One was a serial port. It was a 25-pin D female. It could be jumpered to appear as a DCE or a DTE. From the factory it was strapped to be a DCE. That was probably to be consistent with the MDS-800 and port 1 of the Series II. The 800 required, and the Series II accomodated an external crt terminal as the "console". Since the iPDS had an integral console (built-in crt and keyboard) I strapped my serial port to be a DTE so that I could connect it directly to a modem. In those days, of course, the BBS was dominate for communications to the world, and a modem was highly desirable for that. There was also a 25-pin D female connector to drive a Centronix-compatible printer. It used the same pinout as the 800 and the Series II. Finally there was a 37-pin D female that could connect up an external floppy drive. Remember, the standard iPDS from Intel had only one floppy drive built in. One very cool option was a second cpu board. It has its own 8085 and 64K of ram. It cabled to the main processor board and would use the integral keyboard, crt, and floppy with the use of a software semaphore to prevent both processors from accessing a device at the same time. Another option was a daughter board that accomodated up to four iSBX boards. When that was installed you could install one or two iSBX-251 bubble memory cards. Those cards were 128K bytes in size and the operating systems from Intel would support them as logical disk drives. You could even boot from the internal bubble device. Very advanced for its time, I'd say. Intel, of course, wanted users to take advantage of their ISIS-PDS operating system. It would boot from the bubble or from the floppy drive. And with ISIS, the file and device locking routines would allow both cpu's, if you had the optional second processor installed, to boot, access files, etc, and you could switch between the processors with a function key. It was truly a multi-processor system, actually two very logically distinct computers in one. Often I would be editing one file while compiling, linking, locating, etc, another file, using both cpu's that way. Remember, of course, the only operating systems for small computers like that were single-user, single-tasking. Intel also sold a version of CP/M-80 V2.2 for the iPDS. But due to licensing issues, and possibly technical issues, CP/M would only boot from one of the two processors. It was simply software in the BIOS to disable the "B" processor. However, a clever workaround was to have ISIS loaded in a bubble device, boot one processor from that device, and let the other boot from CP/M on the floppy drive. There were times that I would document a project that I was working on using Wordstar on a CP/M-booted processor while developing code on the ISIS-booted processor. I have a good collection of software for the iPDS, so if anyone who has a working machine, I would be willing to send out copies of what I have. I have made Teledisk images of boot floppies that can be recreated on an IBM-AT compatible on the HD drive. I also have decent comm software that will transfer files through the serial port to and from a PC. Oh well, I guess you can see how bored I am to spend Christmas Eve typing this up, but I wanted to get it written down while it was all fresh in my mind. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you all!!! Dave Mabry From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 24 17:22:08 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: OT: merry stuff In-Reply-To: <2672.192.168.0.7.1103917131.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> from "Witchy" at Dec 24, 4 07:38:51 pm Message-ID: > Aye, may all your presents come in 8 bits :o) > > (or 12, or 16) And what is wrong with 4 bits (Intel 4004, 4040), 20 bits (classic PERQ), 24 bits (PERQ T4 -- OK, I will be very suprised if any of those turn up!), 32 bits (some 32 bit machines are certainly classics by now), 56 bits (HP calculators had bit-serial CPUs with 56 bit registers), etc, etc, etc... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 24 17:29:26 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: HP9845 printer timing belt Message-ID: This talk of timing belts has prompted me to post about the one in the HP9845 internal thermal printer (one of those machines is in many bits on my bench at the moment...), Fortunately I am not looking for a replacement belt -- I say 'fortunately' because I've enver seen anything like it. There are 3 sporckets. One on the stepper motor spindle at the back. One on the platten spindle. One on the feed roller spindle. The first 2 are conventioally driven by teeth on the inside of the belt. The last goes against the outside of the belt and engages with teeth there (of the same pitch as the intenral ones). Of course that means it turns the opposite way. I've never seen a betl with external teeth in anything else (although I have seen a chain drive with sprockets engaging on both sides). I think I mentioned that the printhead in this printer can be taken apart. It consists of a coonventioal PCB to link to the cable harness, 7 ceramic hybrid circuits that contain the printhead drivers (and serial-parallel shift registers), the printhead hybrid iteslf and a load of zebra-strip like connectors to link everything together... -tony From news at computercollector.com Fri Dec 24 17:31:09 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:33 2005 Subject: OT: merry stuff In-Reply-To: <1103903409.32080.54.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20041224233109.43564.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> Errr... happy belated Chanukah to my fellow tribespeople, and happy Festivus to my fellow New Yorkers! --- Jules Richardson wrote: > > merry xmas (where x = ?) > > thought I'd get there first :-P > > enjoy yourselves this weekend, people! > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 620 readers and counting! From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Fri Dec 24 17:48:20 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 available in CA Message-ID: <019201c4ea13$0cd0df70$6e7ba8c0@p933> I got this via email late yesterday: ? "Would you know of anyone that would be interested in a DEC PDP11-34? We just got one in stock and I can provide you with pix and a list of the boards inside if you need." ? So, if you might be interested in the 11/34 please let me know and I'll put you in touch with the seller. ? Email me webmasterNOSPAM@vintage-computer.com ? Happy Holidays! ? ?? Erik Klein ?? www.vintage-computer.com ?? www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum ?? The Vintage Computer Forum ? ? ? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 24 18:34:27 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: Intel iPDS in general In-Reply-To: <41CCA3C8.7020102@mich.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041224193427.0098cc60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Nice summary about the iPDS. Thanks Dave. Joe At 06:18 PM 12/24/04 -0500, you wrote: >All this talk about the Intel iPDS has peaked my interest, at least for >now. So I have been doing a little investigation on what exactly I have >and here are some of the details. From tomj at wps.com Fri Dec 24 18:59:49 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: UNIVAC 409-2 computer Message-ID: Some Mauchly nightmare, a friend bought this chunk of history for a few bills on ePay recently. Pretty good score. http://www.cathodecorner.com/rand409-2/ From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Dec 24 19:06:09 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: OT: merry stuff In-Reply-To: References: <2672.192.168.0.7.1103917131.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> from"Witchy" at Dec 24, 4 07:38:51 pm Message-ID: <1520.192.168.0.7.1103936769.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> > And what is wrong with 4 bits (Intel 4004, 4040), 20 bits (classic PERQ), > 24 bits (PERQ T4 -- OK, I will be very suprised if any of those turn > up!), 32 bits (some 32 bit machines are certainly classics by now), 56 > bits (HP calculators had bit-serial CPUs with 56 bit registers), etc, > etc, etc... Yep, all of that :) -- adrian/witchy Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UKs biggest home computer collection? From tomj at wps.com Fri Dec 24 19:20:11 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: bits and butts In-Reply-To: <1520.192.168.0.7.1103936769.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> References: <2672.192.168.0.7.1103917131.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> from"Witchy" at Dec 24, 4 07:38:51 pm <1520.192.168.0.7.1103936769.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ... bits ... On Sat, 25 Dec 2004, Witchy wrote: > Yep, all of that :) How many computers (automatic, electronic, digital, stored-program, etc) used an odd number of bits? Were any of them not signed-magnitude? Eg. odd number of bits 2's complement? Any of them post-1964? Any LSI/VLSI based? From gordon at gjcp.net Fri Dec 24 19:48:59 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: Merry X-mas to everyone; Token Ring Christmas gift In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41CCC70B.4090508@gjcp.net> Arno1983 wrote: > >>From: Porkchop >>Subject: [rescue] For Rescue: Token Ring! >>To: rescue@sunhelp.org >>How much you offer isn't important. Minimum bid is $1...we actually >>need the magical $1. Everyone in IT would like to see it go to a >>better place than a landfill... >> >>Mid Hudson Valley, New York...2 hours north of NYC. >>-porkchop > > > There already were some "interested reactions" on the rescue list, but of > course nobody knows if one of them is gonna work out. If this load is > aquired, I might well be interested in some of this stuff; I've got some > Token Ring NICs at home and a few more inbound, but neither cabling nor a > MAU/CAU yet. > > Yours sincerely, so long (and thanks for all the fish :-) I'll pay for it but someone else has to pick it up... I'd love some of this, but shipping it to Scotland would be prohibitive. Unless they can wangle some magic scheme to get it shipped to IBM Greenock... Gordon. From aek at spies.com Fri Dec 24 20:39:37 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: Apollo Guidance Computer prototype replica (slashdotted..) Message-ID: <20041225023937.5349A4C40@spies.com> http://science.slashdot.org/science/04/12/24/1326230.shtml?tid=137&tid=160 The comments are particularly clueless (it is /. after all) From fernande at internet1.net Fri Dec 24 21:00:59 2004 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: Help: Looking for IBM timing belt replacement. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041224091330.00793b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041224091330.00793b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <41CCD7EB.80909@internet1.net> Your talking about interference vs. non-interference engine designs. I've owned two cars with belts, thankfully neither broke. I'm also thankful that both were of the non-interference design. If the belts had let loose, my pistons would not have smashed my valves. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Joe R. wrote: > The '68 chevy didn't use a timing belt, it used a timing chain. Just > like all the REAL American cars! Personally I wish they all still did. I > hate these stupid rubber timing belts! All they're good for is generating > revenue for the delaers when they slip or break and you end having to buy > half of a new engine or a new car. > > Joe From mapleleafman at gmail.com Fri Dec 24 21:10:37 2004 From: mapleleafman at gmail.com (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: Interesting "Rare" APPLE PCI Board on Ebay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You gotta admit though, the guy does know how to spell! bm On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 00:24:40 -0500, chris wrote: > >Don't know anything about this, but thought you guys might be interested. > >It has a Buy It Now of $15.... > > I'm not sure how "rare" it really is. > > One of the major mac "parts" dealers (I forget who, small dog maybe), had > a bunch of these for sale not too long ago at $5.00 each. They didn't > seem to indicate any limit on the supply. > > Also, from what I understand, the board isn't too useful as the Mac OS > doesn't recognize it, and so won't work with the ports on it. > > It is probably about a rare as the Apple Set Top Box, it certainly seems > to be as functional. :-) > > -chris > > > From glen.slick at gmail.com Fri Dec 24 21:38:33 2004 From: glen.slick at gmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: Intel iPDS in general In-Reply-To: <41CCA3C8.7020102@mich.com> References: <41CCA3C8.7020102@mich.com> Message-ID: <1e1fc3e9041224193863154d5f@mail.gmail.com> Yes, the iPDS does use an 8272. Here's the list of interesting chips on the base processor. 8085 CPU (2x) 8202 Dynamic RAM Controller 8251 Communication I/O 8253 Interval Timer 8255 Peripheral I/O (3x) 8272 Floppy Disk Controller 8275 CRT Controller 2716 EPROM (3x, not sure if all 3 are 2716) 8264 DRAM (8x, 64KB) > The main processor board (and it was one monolithic system board with > cables to the keyboard, crt, and floppy drive. Besides the main cpu > with 64KB of ram, there was a second 8085 that implemented the keyboard > and crt terminal. So the main cpu only talked through an I/O port to > get "console in" and "console out". The main board also had an 8272 (I > think that was the chip) to control the floppy drive. From frustum at pacbell.net Fri Dec 24 21:54:55 2004 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: bits and butts In-Reply-To: References: <2672.192.168.0.7.1103917131.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> from"Witchy" at Dec 24, 4 07:38:51 pm <1520.192.168.0.7.1103936769.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <41CCE48F.7090705@pacbell.net> Tom Jennings wrote: ... > How many computers (automatic, electronic, digital, > stored-program, etc) used an odd number of bits? > > Were any of them not signed-magnitude? Eg. odd number of bits > 2's complement? > > Any of them post-1964? Any LSI/VLSI based? Post 1964? Why, yes, although I can only just now talk about it since it is past the 10 year cctalk rule. I was an early employee of Chromatic Research, a failed 1993-1999 start up that I believe coined the term "media processor." The MPACT1 and MPACT2 chips contained a LIW processor that had 9b bytes, and all math was 2's complement. The datapath was 72b wide, and most operations could work on eight 9b bytes, four 18b words, or two "36b words" (although the multipliers copped out an only did a 27bx27b multiply). Why the 9-bittedness? There were two reasons. First, Chromatic wrongly foresaw MPEG as being the big draw, and computing ((color component 1) - (color component 2)) required a 9b delta; 16b could have been used, but only four pixels could have been processed per clock. We doubled the peak throughput by adding only 12.5% more datapath resources. The second reason was that the chip used RAMBUS memories, which were only sold with 9b channels, and we had no particular need for parity. Other MPACT oddities: Each 72b instruction bundle had a two bit field that indicated that the pair of instructions had to be either executed sequentially, executed in parallel, executed in parallel "VECLEN1" or "VECLEN2" times in a row (where VECLEN1 and VECLEN2 were registers containing a repeat count). The chip had 512 72b registers, and the programming game was to work on vectors of data in this register while streaming data to/from the RDRAM memory (Chromatic was one of early adopters of RAMBUS memory). The multipliers had various rounding modes, including "round random", where 6b pseudorandom bias was added just below the trucation point, as some audio filter algorithms have better spectral properties with this type of rounding. There weren't separate shift left/shift right instructions, just a shift. Positive shift counts shifted left, negative shifted right. This was especially important since for SIMD data, sometimes different fields had to shift opposite directions in the same instruction. The chip implemented CGA/EGA/VGA in all of their textmode, planar mode, packed mode glory via emulation. All VGA register accesses actually got funnelled into a VGA command FIFO. When the FIFO went non-empty, an interrupt was taken to the VGA emulation routine; it would parse the VGA commands and carry out the necessary work on the flat, packed pixel framebuffer so that the results looked as they should. It seems laughable now when multiple VGA cores would fit on a pinhead, but back then in 0.65 um, a VGA core would have been a significant cost. I guess I'll stop there, although there were a number of other interesting features. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 24 23:15:45 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: Help: Looking for IBM timing belt replacement. In-Reply-To: <41CCD7EB.80909@internet1.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20041224091330.00793b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041224091330.00793b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041225001545.0098f4f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Most modern engines use the interference type design. I had a belt that had less than 1000 miles jump and it cost me over $1200 to get the engine fixed (and that was in 1987!) I also had another engine ruined when the crankshaft dampener couldn't be tighten enough to prevent it working loose after changing the rubber belt. The car was eventually junked even though it and the engine were in perfect condition EXCEPT for the damaged crankshaft, keyway, key and dampener. Neither one of these problems would have ever happened with a timing chain ! Joe At 10:00 PM 12/24/04 -0500, you wrote: >Your talking about interference vs. non-interference engine designs. >I've owned two cars with belts, thankfully neither broke. I'm also >thankful that both were of the non-interference design. If the belts >had let loose, my pistons would not have smashed my valves. > > >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA > >Joe R. wrote: > >> The '68 chevy didn't use a timing belt, it used a timing chain. Just >> like all the REAL American cars! Personally I wish they all still did. I >> hate these stupid rubber timing belts! All they're good for is generating >> revenue for the delaers when they slip or break and you end having to buy >> half of a new engine or a new car. >> >> Joe > > From tomj at wps.com Fri Dec 24 23:47:24 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: Intel iPDS in general In-Reply-To: <1e1fc3e9041224193863154d5f@mail.gmail.com> References: <41CCA3C8.7020102@mich.com> <1e1fc3e9041224193863154d5f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Dec 2004, Glen Slick wrote: > Yes, the iPDS does use an 8272. I forgot about that chip!!! Some product I wrote a driver for had it. (Now that's a bad sign, nostalgic about LSI.) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 24 23:40:45 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: IT'S BAAAACK!! The "complete" in-complete HP 1000! Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041225004045.0090c170@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Only $749! Anybody want to get screwed? And of course the "mystery"* E-series HP 1000 is still there too. *The mystery is how much of it is missing! Joe From tomj at wps.com Fri Dec 24 23:55:33 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: bits and butts In-Reply-To: <41CCE48F.7090705@pacbell.net> References: <2672.192.168.0.7.1103917131.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> from"Witchy" at Dec 24, 4 07:38:51 pm <1520.192.168.0.7.1103936769.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> <41CCE48F.7090705@pacbell.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Dec 2004, Jim Battle wrote: re: 9 bits > We doubled the > peak throughput by adding only 12.5% more datapath resources. The > second reason was that the chip used RAMBUS memories, which were only sold > with 9b channels, and we had no particular need for parity. That's pretty clever, a good use for those parity RAMs! Two-wide would make 18 bits, a really nice width (3 characters). > The multipliers had various rounding modes, including "round random", where 6b > pseudorandom bias was added just below the trucation point, as some audio > filter algorithms have better spectral properties with this type of rounding. Man, I love bizarre hardware solutions to problems like that. It all sounds so baroque. From medavidson at mac.com Sat Dec 25 00:45:15 2004 From: medavidson at mac.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: Computer rescue in Kalamazoo, MI USA In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041221131602.00b073c0@mail.30below.com> References: <53350.146.113.42.89.1102524018.squirrel@solsun.visiwave.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041208104508.05472af8@pc> <53366.146.113.42.89.1102525398.squirrel@solsun.visiwave.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041208111400.056827b8@pc> <62932.24.247.156.80.1103643658.squirrel@solsun.visiwave.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20041221131602.00b073c0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <886929AC-5640-11D9-8179-000393D3CBB6@mac.com> I'd *definitely* be interested in the AT&T Unix PC! If no one else has claimed it and you do end up picking it up, I'll happily pay for shipping and some gas! Mark Davidson On Dec 21, 2004, at 10:20 AM, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that John Foust may have mentioned these words: > >> I received a request for computer rescue at Kalamazoo College >> www.kzoo.edu in Michigan. Below is a mostly-complete list. >> They'd like someone to pick it up in early January. > > I *may* be able to rescue this if no-one else can, but I'd need to > find homes for most all of it fairly soon, as I don't have a ton of > suitable storage space (especially since it was -18F Sunday, and -10F > yesterday...) -- about the only thing I might be interested in myself > is the HP9K but if someone else wanted it really bad... ;-) > > Keep in mind Kzoo is a 600mile round trip, so a few bones for gas > above item shipping would be a plus for those who may want it... > > Laterz, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger | A new truth in advertising slogan > SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers | for MicroSoft: "We're not the oxy... > zmerch@30below.com | ...in oxymoron!" > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Dec 24 19:29:04 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: OT: merry stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In message ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > And what is wrong with 4 bits (Intel 4004, 4040), 20 bits (classic PERQ), How about 1 bit (Motorola MC14500)? :) Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... A seminar on Time Travel will be held two weeks ago From spedraja at ono.com Sat Dec 25 02:04:30 2004 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: IT'S BAAAACK!! The "complete" in-complete HP 1000! References: <3.0.6.32.20041225004045.0090c170@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000d01c4ea58$5ce83540$1502a8c0@ACER> Only for U.S. citizens. Enjoy it, dudes. Cheers (and Merry Christmas) Sergio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 6:40 AM Subject: IT'S BAAAACK!! The "complete" in-complete HP 1000! > Only $749! Anybody want to get screwed? > &rd=1> > > > > And of course the "mystery"* E-series HP 1000 is still there too. > &rd=1> > > *The mystery is how much of it is missing! > > Joe > From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sat Dec 25 02:50:14 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: bits and butts In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 24 Dec 2004 17:20:11 PST." Message-ID: <200412250850.IAA21364@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Tom Jennings said: > How many computers (automatic, electronic, digital, > stored-program, etc) used an odd number of bits? EDSAC was 18 bit, but only 17 were used due to timimg constraints, does that count? -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From tomj at wps.com Sat Dec 25 03:38:52 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: bits and butts In-Reply-To: <200412250850.IAA21364@citadel.metropolis.local> References: <200412250850.IAA21364@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Dec 2004, Stan Barr wrote: > Tom Jennings said: > > How many computers (automatic, electronic, digital, > > stored-program, etc) used an odd number of bits? > > EDSAC was 18 bit, but only 17 were used due to timimg constraints, > does that count? Really!?!? I suppose it ought to count! :-) From gordon at gjcp.net Sat Dec 25 03:43:59 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041224091330.00793b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041224091330.00793b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <41CD365F.90300@gjcp.net> Joe R. wrote: > The '68 chevy didn't use a timing belt, it used a timing chain. Just > like all the REAL American cars! Personally I wish they all still did. I > hate these stupid rubber timing belts! All they're good for is generating > revenue for the delaers when they slip or break and you end having to buy > half of a new engine or a new car. Well, that's just down to stupidity. A new timing belt costs a tenner at the most and even on an absolutely evil b*st*rd of an engine to work on (step forward, Citroen XM 2.5TD, not nearly as nice an engine as the CX 25DTR) it takes at worst a couple of hours to fit. I can do Volvo 2- and 3-series belts in about half-an-hour... It's cheap, it's important, and it's something you can easily do at home. Got to be a bit careful with diesels, though - sometimes you need a locking tool to stop the pump moving. I change them on any car I buy as a mere matter of course - think of it as (and here is where we swerve briefly ot ON-topic) similar to pulling all the boards from a classic to make sure the power supply isn't putting out the wrong voltage, the first time you power it up. As to why we use timing belts, well... The problem with timing chain designs is that the chains wear and go slack. This means you either need complicated hydraulic tensioners (like on the Peugeot/Renault/Volvo B27/B28 V6 as fitted to Volvos 260s, Renault 30s, Deloreans and the like, or Maserati V6es as fitted to Citroen SMs, or Triumph Stag V8s - all notorious for timing chain failures), or just allow the chain to slop about once it's worn (pretty much every other OHV chain-driven engine). The problem with that is that if there is a lot of slack in the chain, the position of the cam shaft (and hence the valve timing, and on most OHV engines the ignition timing) can be out by as much as 5 degrees. If you've ever fitted a timing belt or chain to a car one tooth out (ummm, nope I've *never* managed to do that, then wonder why the engine was really quiet but down on power) you'll know how much of a difference that can make. Now imagine that instead of being "out" by a fixed amount, it's randomly flapping backwards and forwards plus or minus 5 degrees... Of course, the Ford Essex 3 litre V6 in my Scimitar solves the problem by having no belts or chains at all - just two big gears. The large gear uses fibre teeth which wear after a few hundred thousand miles, but that's another story.... Gordon. From news at computercollector.com Sat Dec 25 03:52:57 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: Back to computing topic ... Re: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <41CD365F.90300@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <20041225095257.53375.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> Ummm, I started the off-topicness here, so I'll try to end it by putting forward these questions: - What is the most odd computer you've encountered in a car's drivetrain? - What is the largest computer you've fit into a car? - What is the computer that gave Jay a flat tire en route to VCF East this year? --- Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > Joe R. wrote: > > The '68 chevy didn't use a timing belt, it used a timing chain. Just > > like all the REAL American cars! Personally I wish they all still did. I > > hate these stupid rubber timing belts! All they're good for is generating > > revenue for the delaers when they slip or break and you end having to buy > > half of a new engine or a new car. > > Well, that's just down to stupidity. A new timing belt costs a tenner > at the most and even on an absolutely evil b*st*rd of an engine to work > on (step forward, Citroen XM 2.5TD, not nearly as nice an engine as the > CX 25DTR) it takes at worst a couple of hours to fit. I can do Volvo 2- > and 3-series belts in about half-an-hour... > > It's cheap, it's important, and it's something you can easily do at > home. Got to be a bit careful with diesels, though - sometimes you need > a locking tool to stop the pump moving. I change them on any car I buy > as a mere matter of course - think of it as (and here is where we swerve > briefly ot ON-topic) similar to pulling all the boards from a classic to > make sure the power supply isn't putting out the wrong voltage, the > first time you power it up. > > As to why we use timing belts, well... The problem with timing chain > designs is that the chains wear and go slack. This means you either > need complicated hydraulic tensioners (like on the Peugeot/Renault/Volvo > B27/B28 V6 as fitted to Volvos 260s, Renault 30s, Deloreans and the > like, or Maserati V6es as fitted to Citroen SMs, or Triumph Stag V8s - > all notorious for timing chain failures), or just allow the chain to > slop about once it's worn (pretty much every other OHV chain-driven > engine). The problem with that is that if there is a lot of slack in > the chain, the position of the cam shaft (and hence the valve timing, > and on most OHV engines the ignition timing) can be out by as much as 5 > degrees. If you've ever fitted a timing belt or chain to a car one > tooth out (ummm, nope I've *never* managed to do that, then wonder why > the engine was really quiet but down on power) you'll know how much of a > difference that can make. Now imagine that instead of being "out" by a > fixed amount, it's randomly flapping backwards and forwards plus or > minus 5 degrees... > > Of course, the Ford Essex 3 litre V6 in my Scimitar solves the problem > by having no belts or chains at all - just two big gears. The large > gear uses fibre teeth which wear after a few hundred thousand miles, but > that's another story.... > > Gordon. > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 620 readers and counting! From gordon at gjcp.net Sat Dec 25 04:23:32 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: Back to computing topic ... Re: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <20041225095257.53375.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041225095257.53375.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41CD3FA4.4010909@gjcp.net> Computer Collector Newsletter wrote: > Ummm, I started the off-topicness here, so I'll try to end it by putting > forward these questions: > - What is the most odd computer you've encountered in a car's drivetrain? > - What is the largest computer you've fit into a car? > - What is the computer that gave Jay a flat tire en route to VCF East this > year? Most odd computer must be the little microprocessor controller thingy that lives under the seat in an old-shape Nissan Micra. All it does is detect if you've turned on the lights, heater fan, heated rear window, or if the engine cooling fan has turned on. If one of these things is on, it turns on a little solenoid valve on the side of the carb to increase the idle speed a little. For this they use (IIRC) an 8042 microcontroller. The most microprocessor-y car I've ever had was probably the two Citroen XMs. An ECU for the fuel injection (although technically mine were both analogue - LE2-Jetronic, the turbo used Motronic which *does* have a microprocessor), an ECU for the suspension (as well as miles of plumbing), an ABS ECU, no less than *two* ECUs for the heater (one for the air con, one for the actual heater controls), a little diagnostics display (which tended to complain in French or Spanish if it had been raining heavily) and the trip computer. And I don't think I got them all, either - there seems to be some intelligence associated with the automatic gearbox. Largest computer I've ever fitted into a car? Well, I fitted a rack with a PDP11/34, a rack with two PDP11/84s, a couple of "washing machine" disk drives, and a chain printer the size of the packing crate a large motorcycle would come in, as well as cables, disk packs, dumb terminals and documentation, into the back of a short wheelbase Transit van. Does that count? And finally, no idea, but it sounds like a story worth the telling ;-) Gordon. From tomj at wps.com Sat Dec 25 04:27:57 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: Back to computing topic ... Re: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <41CD3FA4.4010909@gjcp.net> References: <20041225095257.53375.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> <41CD3FA4.4010909@gjcp.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Dec 2004, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > > - What is the most odd computer you've encountered in a car's drivetrain? Well I carried a Varian 622/I mini in the trunk of my 1970 AMC Hornet, if that counts. 4K core, optional hardware divide instruction installed. From news at computercollector.com Sat Dec 25 04:44:18 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: Back to computing topic ... Re: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <41CD3FA4.4010909@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <20041225104418.78077.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> >>>>> And finally, no idea, but it sounds like a story worth the telling ;-) Well I hope this brings back happy memories of the show itself, not bad memories of the local police dispatcher: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2004-July/045630.html Besides running this list, I believe JW deserves the "most dedication to transporting a computer" award for 2004. --- Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > Computer Collector Newsletter wrote: > > Ummm, I started the off-topicness here, so I'll try to end it by putting > > forward these questions: > > - What is the most odd computer you've encountered in a car's drivetrain? > > - What is the largest computer you've fit into a car? > > - What is the computer that gave Jay a flat tire en route to VCF East this > > year? > > Most odd computer must be the little microprocessor controller thingy > that lives under the seat in an old-shape Nissan Micra. All it does is > detect if you've turned on the lights, heater fan, heated rear window, > or if the engine cooling fan has turned on. If one of these things is > on, it turns on a little solenoid valve on the side of the carb to > increase the idle speed a little. For this they use (IIRC) an 8042 > microcontroller. > > The most microprocessor-y car I've ever had was probably the two Citroen > XMs. An ECU for the fuel injection (although technically mine were both > analogue - LE2-Jetronic, the turbo used Motronic which *does* have a > microprocessor), an ECU for the suspension (as well as miles of > plumbing), an ABS ECU, no less than *two* ECUs for the heater (one for > the air con, one for the actual heater controls), a little diagnostics > display (which tended to complain in French or Spanish if it had been > raining heavily) and the trip computer. And I don't think I got them > all, either - there seems to be some intelligence associated with the > automatic gearbox. > > Largest computer I've ever fitted into a car? Well, I fitted a rack > with a PDP11/34, a rack with two PDP11/84s, a couple of "washing > machine" disk drives, and a chain printer the size of the packing crate > a large motorcycle would come in, as well as cables, disk packs, dumb > terminals and documentation, into the back of a short wheelbase Transit > van. Does that count? > > And finally, no idea, but it sounds like a story worth the telling ;-) > > Gordon. > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 620 readers and counting! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sat Dec 25 04:44:19 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: bits and butts In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 25 Dec 2004 01:38:52 PST." Message-ID: <200412251044.KAA24276@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Tom Jennings said: > On Sat, 25 Dec 2004, Stan Barr wrote: > > > Tom Jennings said: > > > > How many computers (automatic, electronic, digital, > > > stored-program, etc) used an odd number of bits? > > > > EDSAC was 18 bit, but only 17 were used due to timimg constraints, > > does that count? > > Really!?!? I suppose it ought to count! :-) To further confuse things, long words were 35 bits and the accumulator 71 bits! (I've been playing with the emulator...) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Dec 25 11:08:38 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: Back to computing topic ... Re: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <41CD3FA4.4010909@gjcp.net> References: <20041225095257.53375.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> <20041225095257.53375.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041225120838.009952b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:23 AM 12/25/04 +0000, you wrote: >Computer Collector Newsletter wrote: >> Ummm, I started the off-topicness here, so I'll try to end it by putting >> forward these questions: >> - What is the most odd computer you've encountered in a car's drivetrain? >> - What is the largest computer you've fit into a car? >> - What is the computer that gave Jay a flat tire en route to VCF East this >> year? > >Most odd computer must be the little microprocessor controller thingy >that lives under the seat in an old-shape Nissan Micra. All it does is >detect if you've turned on the lights, heater fan, heated rear window, >or if the engine cooling fan has turned on. If one of these things is >on, it turns on a little solenoid valve on the side of the carb to >increase the idle speed a little. For this they use (IIRC) an 8042 >microcontroller. My '85 Nissan truck has something similar. I think most cars do. FWIW my '70 Plymouth Superbird did the same thing but much simpler. They simply put a electrical solenoid on the side of the carburator. With certain accessories (don't remember which ones) were on, power was applied to the solenoid and it's plunger raised up about 1/8" and pushed up the arm connected to the trottle on the carburator. Very simply and effective. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Dec 25 10:59:37 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <41CD365F.90300@gjcp.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20041224091330.00793b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041224091330.00793b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041225115937.00992100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:43 AM 12/25/04 +0000, you wrote: >Joe R. wrote: >> The '68 chevy didn't use a timing belt, it used a timing chain. Just >> like all the REAL American cars! Personally I wish they all still did. I >> hate these stupid rubber timing belts! All they're good for is generating >> revenue for the delaers when they slip or break and you end having to buy >> half of a new engine or a new car. > >Well, that's just down to stupidity. Tell me how it's supidity when you have a factory belt installed by a factory trained mechanic and it jumps timing with less than 1000 miles on the new belt and destroys half the engine! I'm waiting for an answer! That's what happened to me with my Nissan Maxima. The engine had to be removed from the car in order to remove the rear cylinder head. I had to replace values in both cylinder heads. The cost was over $1200 (in 1987!) I was just lucky that it didn't also ruin some of the pistons and/or cylinder heads. I've worked on hundreds of cars and I've NEVER seen anything like that on an engine with a timing chain. The chains will stretch and change the timing but they don't jump or break and destroy the engine. A new timing belt costs a tenner >at the most Hah! Just bought one for my Mitsubishi Diamonte. $170+ ! Plus 3.5 hours of labor at $99/hr. The last several that I've bought have all been over $100 except for the one for the Subaru and it was $80 something (ten years ago!) IIRC the one for the Maxima was $120+ in 1987! Also just had one changed on my daughter's Daewoo. They want you to replace all the related tensioners, pullys, etc at the same time. Those parts alone were almost $500!!! I was lucky in that the car still had 3000 miles left on the warrenty. The belt broke in that one at 57,000 miles and the cost to fix everything was over $1200. I still have the paper work and can show it to you if you don't believe me. In the mean time, my Nissan truck with a timing chain is still running fine at 158,000 miles! and even on an absolutely evil b*st*rd of an engine to work >on (step forward, Citroen XM 2.5TD, not nearly as nice an engine as the >CX 25DTR) it takes at worst a couple of hours to fit. I can do Volvo 2- >and 3-series belts in about half-an-hour... I wish you'd come do the belt in my Mitsubishi! I'd PAY to see someone change it's belt in 1/2 hour! Joe > >It's cheap, it's important, and it's something you can easily do at >home. Got to be a bit careful with diesels, though - sometimes you need >a locking tool to stop the pump moving. I change them on any car I buy >as a mere matter of course - think of it as (and here is where we swerve >briefly ot ON-topic) similar to pulling all the boards from a classic to >make sure the power supply isn't putting out the wrong voltage, the >first time you power it up. > >As to why we use timing belts, well... The problem with timing chain >designs is that the chains wear and go slack. This means you either >need complicated hydraulic tensioners (like on the Peugeot/Renault/Volvo >B27/B28 V6 as fitted to Volvos 260s, Renault 30s, Deloreans and the >like, or Maserati V6es as fitted to Citroen SMs, or Triumph Stag V8s - >all notorious for timing chain failures), or just allow the chain to >slop about once it's worn (pretty much every other OHV chain-driven >engine). The problem with that is that if there is a lot of slack in >the chain, the position of the cam shaft (and hence the valve timing, >and on most OHV engines the ignition timing) can be out by as much as 5 >degrees. If you've ever fitted a timing belt or chain to a car one >tooth out (ummm, nope I've *never* managed to do that, then wonder why >the engine was really quiet but down on power) you'll know how much of a >difference that can make. Now imagine that instead of being "out" by a >fixed amount, it's randomly flapping backwards and forwards plus or >minus 5 degrees... > >Of course, the Ford Essex 3 litre V6 in my Scimitar solves the problem >by having no belts or chains at all - just two big gears. The large >gear uses fibre teeth which wear after a few hundred thousand miles, but >that's another story.... > >Gordon. > From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Dec 25 11:21:33 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: clueless eBay seller for today is: References: <3.0.6.32.20041221152552.00980840@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041221162211.0091a600@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001101c4eaa6$2f65fbe0$0100a8c0@screamer> Many HP 1000's don't need a battery 'cheater' plug. If you have the common '6615' power supply (without battery backup) the machine will power up perfectly in about 1/3 the time needed by HP 1000's that have battery backup (and need the cheater plug). Also if you remove the power supply, there will be no power to the fans, as these are fed by in-line clips to leads from the power supply chassis (and two of the 4 fans would be missing). This machine clearly does have a power supply, it looks like a steal to me. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 4:22 PM Subject: Re: clueless eBay seller for today is: > At 01:08 PM 12/21/04 -0800, Zane wrote: >>> He certainly hasn't found your website, has he Al? At least he's >>> not >>> claiming that it's "complete and fully functional" like the seller of >>> that >>> recent F-series 1000 did. >>> >>> Joe >> >>I'd noticed that it's missing something from that back. That's not the >>card >>cage is it? What is it missing? > > The I/O cards go in the rear and as you noticed there are no I/O cards > in it. The memory and related cards go in the front under the switch > panel > and we can only wonder what's there (or not there!) I don't see the > battery > simulator plug that plugs into the rear so it's unlikely that it will > power > and and pass self-test but of course the seller only claimed that "it > powers up". Not that that means much. You could remove the PSU and all the > cards and the fans would still "power up". Anybody that buys anything > like > this with so little information is buying a real pig in a poke! > > About the only good thing about it is that the CPU card is under the > chassis and most gold-scrappers miss them so MOST likely you will at least > get the CPU card. > > Joe > > >> >> Zane >> > From arlen at acm.org Sat Dec 25 11:52:06 2004 From: arlen at acm.org (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: Intel iPDS in general In-Reply-To: <41CCA3C8.7020102@mich.com> Message-ID: on 24/12/04 6:18 PM, Dave Mabry wrote: > All this talk about the Intel iPDS has peaked my interest, at least for > now. So I have been doing a little investigation on what exactly I have > and here are some of the details. [...] Thanks for this excellent and helpful description, Dave. Arlen Michaels From dave04a at dunfield.com Sat Dec 25 12:57:04 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: Back to computing topic ... Re: OT: timing belts Message-ID: <20041225185703.CLUM20721.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> >- What is the largest computer you've fit into a car? Complete Nova 1200 system (full rack) in an early 80's Honda Civic - basically, the top of the rack (with a 9-track drive) wedged in far enough so that it didn't fall out (good thing it has a strong roof) - the rest stuck out the back and weighed the car down to bottom out on its springs - The front end felt *VERY* light, and it would feel as if the front wheels came up if you accelerated while going over a bump. Fortunately I didn't have to move it far... (Wish I had taken a picture!) Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Dec 25 08:22:14 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: Back to computing topic ... Re: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041225120838.009952b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <41CD3FA4.4010909@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <20041225192204.LGEY1863.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@wizard> > >> - What is the computer that gave Jay a flat tire en route to VCF East this > >> year? > > > >Most odd computer must be the little microprocessor controller thingy > >that lives under the seat in an old-shape Nissan Micra. All it does is > > My '85 Nissan truck has something similar. I think most cars do. FWIW my > '70 Plymouth Superbird did the same thing but much simpler. They simply put > a electrical solenoid on the side of the carburator. With certain > accessories (don't remember which ones) were on, power was applied to the > solenoid and it's plunger raised up about 1/8" and pushed up the arm > connected to the trottle on the carburator. Very simply and effective. > > Joe My caravan 1987 2.2L 4cyl does have 2 barrel carb (Tulip). Did have computer to adjust the spark advance via the rpm (sensed via the distributor vanes) and vacuum transductor. Computer also monitor engine temp, control the throttle kicker (bumps up 200rpm or so). Throttle closed contact. Computer also controls the secondary throttle via vacuum soleoid valve, enables when engine is warmed up. For fuel vapor control too, via another vacuum soleoid valve. Micro in radio for electronic tuner & clock. Cheers, Wizard From dmabry at mich.com Sat Dec 25 13:54:50 2004 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: Intel iPDS in general In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41CDC58A.1000006@mich.com> Arlen Michaels wrote: >on 24/12/04 6:18 PM, Dave Mabry wrote: > > > >>All this talk about the Intel iPDS has peaked my interest, at least for >>now. So I have been doing a little investigation on what exactly I have >>and here are some of the details. >> >> >[...] > >Thanks for this excellent and helpful description, Dave. > >Arlen Michaels > > > Arlen, You have one of these beasts, correct? Do you know what options you have with it? As a followup on my earlier post, I forgot to mention that the version of CP/M that Intel sold for the iPDS did include support for the iSBX 251 bubble memory devices as logical drives. And I wrote a BIOS for CP/M Plus for the iPDS, so that is available if there is interest. As with the other boot diskettes, I would be able to supply Teledisk images. Dave From GOOI at oce.nl Sat Dec 25 14:40:33 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: XXDP inventory (warning: long list) Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A0111345E@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Hello all, First of all, best wishes to you and your family. Here is the list of the XXDP listings that I have (25 cm pile!). I will scan the following three first as they describe XXDP *itself* : - AC-9093L-MC CZQXAL0 XXDP USR MAN - AC-F053B-MC CXQUAB0 DECX11 USER'S MANUAL - AC-F055C-MC CXQUBC0 DEC/X11 CROSS-REFERENCE MANUAL with AF-F055C-M1 patch for AC-F055C-MC - Henk, PA8PDP. The list: AC-9093L-MC CZQXAL0 XXDP USR MAN (THIS MAINDEC REPLACES MAINDEC-11 DZQDD AND DZQDE AND DZQXA) AC-8528C-MC CZDLDC0 DL11-W DIAG AC-8850F-MC CZKMAF0 MOS/CORE 1-124K EXER MAINDEC-11-DFKAC-A-D 11/34 EIS INSTRUCTION TESTS AC-8041C-MC CFKAAC0 11/34 BSC INST TST AC-8045D-MC CFKABD0 11/34 TRAPS TST AC-8054B-MC CFKTHB0 PDP 11/34 MEM MGMT AC-7883F-MC CCMFAF0 MS11, MF11, MA11-P MEM MAINDEC-11--DZKAQ-G-D PDP-11 POWER FAIL DIAGNOSTIC AC-8954E-MC CZM9AE0 BOOTSTRAP/TERMINATOR (M9301, M9400) AC-9045F-MC CZQMCF0 0-124K MEM EXER 16K MAINDEC-11-DCKBR-E-D 11/40 - 11/45 CPU PARITY TEST AC-8532D-MC CZDLOD0 DL11 OVRLY FOR ITEP AC-8516G-MC CZDLAG0 DL11-E,C/D OFLNE TST MAINDEC-11-DZDLB-B-D DL11-E ON LINE TESTS (THIS MAINDEC OBSOLETES MAINDEC-11-DZDLBA) MAINDEC-11-DZDLC-B-D DL11/C,/D, or /E Off Line Test AC-8898E-MC CZLACE0 LA36 TERM (DL11 & KL11) AC-E099A-MC CZLAFA0 LA36 TERM TST MAINDEC-11-DZLAD-C-D LA36 TERMINAL (DH11 & DJ11 INTERFACE) MD-11-DZLAD-C1/03 temporary patch for MAINDEC-11-DZLAD-C-D MAINDEC-11-DZITA-D-D INTERPROCESSOR TEST PROGRAM (ITEP) AC-E250B-MC CZRLFB0 RL01 DRIVE COMPATIBILITY TEST AC-E044B-MC CZRLCB0 RL01 DRIVE TEST PART 1 AC-E048B-MC CZRLDB0 RL01 DRIVE TEST PART 2 AC-E246B-MC CZRLEB0 RL01/RLV11 PERF EXERCISER AC-E040B-MC CZRLBB0 RL11/RLV11 CONTROLLER TEST PART 2 AC-E451A-MC CXTSAA0 DEC/X11 TS11/TS04 MOD AC-E661D-MC CXXYAD0 XY11 PRLOT MOD AC-E664G-MC CXCPAG0 PROCESSOR TST AC-E667J-MC CXCPBJ0 EIS EXER MOD AC-E670F-MC CXLPAF0 LP11 MODULE AC-E673G-MC CXRFAG0 RF11 MODULE AC-E676G-MC CXRKAG0 DEC/X11 RK11 MODULE AC-679M-MC CXRPAM0 RP11 MODULE AC-E682D-MC CXTAAD0 TA11 MODULE AC-E685G-MC CXTCAG0 DEC/X11 TC11 MODULE AC-E688G-MC CXKWAG0 DEC/X11 KW11-L LINE CLOCK MODULE AC-E691J-MC CXKWBJ0 DEC/X11 KW11-P MODULE AC-E694F-MC CXCRAF0 CR11 MODULE MD-XX-CXCRA CXCRAF1 CR11 MODULE CONDITIONAL PATCH AC-E697D-MC CXKEAD0 KE11 MODULE AC-E700C-MC CXPCCC0 PC11 MODULE AC-E703I-MC CXTMAI0 TM11 MODULE MD-ZZ-CXTMA CXTMA11 TM11 MODULE UNCONDITIONAL PATCH 1 MD-ZZ-CXTMA CXTMA11 TM11 MODULE PATCH BEQ TO BNE PART 2 AC-E706G-MC CXDCAG0 DC11 MODULE AC-E709I-MC CXDLAI0 DL11 MODULE AC-E712E-MC CXDPAE0 DEC/X11 DP11 MODULE AC-E715I-MC CXDQAI0 DQ11 DEC/X11 MODULE AC-E718I-MC CXDUAI0 DU11 DEC/X11 MODULE AC-E721H-MC CXDJAH0 DEC/X11 DJ11 MODULE AC-E724E-MC CXGTAE0 GT-40 DEC/X11 MODULE AC-E727F-MC CXLPBF0 LPS-KW MODULE AC-E730F-MC CXLPDF0 LPS-AD,NP MODULE AC-E733I-MC CXDRCI0 DR11-C MODULE AC-E736E-MC CXRXAE0 DEC/X11 RX01 FLOPPY DISK MODULE AC-E739B-MC CXDRFB0 DRV11B MODULE AC-E742G-MC CXFPAG0 DEC/X11 FP11 (11/40 & 45) MODULE AC-E745I-MC CXRPBI0 RH11-RH70 SGL PT DSK AC-E748I-MC CXRSAI0 DEC/X11 RH11/RS03, RS03/LA, RS04 MODULE AC-E785D-MC CXRKBD0 RK611/RK06,RK07 MOD AC-E788G-MC CXCDAG0 CD11 MOD AC-E791B-MC CXKWCB0 KW11-W MODULE AC-E794E-MC CXAFAE0 AFC11 MODULE AC-E800E-MC CXADAE0 AD01-D MODULE AC-E803G-MC CXDNAG0 DN11 MODULE AF-E803G-M1 MD-ZZ-CXDNA PATCH AC-E809B-MC CXBTBB0 BUS TESTER MODULE A AC-E812B-MC CXBTAB0 BUS TESTER MODULE B AC-E815B-MC CXLPFB0 LP20 MODULE AC-E821E-MC CXKLAE0 KL11 MODULE AC-E827F-MC CXDXAF0 DX11 MODULE AF-E827F-M1 MD-ZZ-CXDXA PATCH AC-E833F-MC CXCBCF0 CB11-HA MODULE AC-E836E-MC CXCBBE0 CB11 DISTRIBUTE MOD AC-E839E-MC CXCBAE0 CB11 SCAN MODULE AC-E842E-MC CXLPCE0 LPS11/LPS-VC MODULE AC-E845I-MC CXDMBI0 DM11-BB 16-LNE MO AC-E848D-MC CXAAAD0 AA11/VT01-A MODULE AC-E851H-MC CXDRBH0 DR11-B MODULE AC-E854D-MC CXDRAD0 DR11-A MODULE AC-E857F-MC CXPABF0 PA611 PUNCH MODULE AF-E857F-M1 MD-ZZ-CXPAB PATCH AC-E860F-MC CXPAAF0 PA611 READER MODULE AC-E863D-MC CXUDAD0 UDC11 MODULE AC-E866L-MC CXDHAL0 DH11 16-LNE PROG AC-E869C-MC CXICAC0 ICS-11 MODULE AF-E868C-M1 MD-ZZ-CXICA PATCH AC-E872C-MC CXVSAC0 VS60 MOD AC-E875B-MC CXARAB0 AR-11 MODULE AC-E878K-MC CXTMBK0 TM02,03/TU16,TE16 MO AC-E881B-MC CXBBAB0 KIT-11D MODULE AC-E884B-MC CXBEAB0 M7855 BUS TESTER MODULE AC-E887C-MC CXDREC0 DR11M,DR11L MODULE AC-E890C-MC CXICBC0 ICR-11 MODULE AC-E893B-MC CXDPBB0 DUP-11 MODULE AC-E896C-MC CXTRAC0 TR79F MODULE AF-E896C-M1 MD-ZZ-CXTRA UNCONDITIONAL PATCH AF-E896C-M2 MD-ZZ-CXTRA BEQ TO BNE PATCH 2 AF-E896C-M3 MD-ZZ-CXTRA PATCH 3 AC-E899D-MC CXNCAD0 NC-11A MODULE AC-E902C-MC CXDRDC0 DR11K MODULE AC-E905B-MC CXVTAB0 VT20 MODULE AC-E908C-MC CXLPEC0 LPD-11 MODULE AF-E908C-M1 MD-ZZ-CXLPE PATCH AC-E911C-MC CXDZBC0 DZV11 MODULE AC-E914D-MC CXIBAD0 IBV-11A MODULE AC-E920B-MC CXKWEB0 KWV11K MODULE AC-E923B-MC CXADCB0 ADV11 MODULE CA-E926B-MC CXADBB0 AD-11K MODULE AC-E929B-MC CXKWDB0 KW11-K MODULE AC-E932D-MC CXRCAD0 RC11 MOD AC-E935B-MC CXLKAB0 LK11 MODULE AC-E938C-MC CXFPBC0 FP11-A,B,C MODULE AC-E941C-MC CXDZAC0 DZ11 MODULE AC-E944B-MC CXVSBB0 VSV01 MODULE AC-E947B-MC CXDVAB0 DV11 MODULE AC-E950B-MC CXKMCB0 KMC-11 MODULE AF-E950B-M1 MD-ZZ-CXKMC PATCH AC-E953B-MC CXDMCB0 DMC-11 MODULE AF-E953B-M1 MD-ZZ-CXDMC PATCH AC-E956B-MC CXVTBB0 DH11/VT20 MODULE AC-E959B-MC CXAABB0 AA11-K MODULE AC-E962B-MC CXPCSB0 PCS-11 MODULE AC-E965C-MC CXRLAC0 RL11/RL01 MODULE AC-E968C-MC CXRMBC0 RH11/RM03 DUAL PORT MOD AC-E971D-MC CXRMAD0 RH11,70/RM03,02 S P M AC-E974B-MC CXLPHB0 LPA11-XX MODULE AC-E992B-MC CXKUAB0 KUV11-A MODULE AC-E995C-MC CXDTAC0 DTE20 MODULE AC-E998B-MC CXDLBB0 DL11-E MODULE AF-E998B-M1 MD-ZZ-CXDLB PATCH AC-F001B-MC CXKWFB0 GROSS TMNG MOD AC-F004A-MC CXDRWA0 DR11-W MODULE AC-F053B-MC CXQUAB0 DECX11 USER'S MANUAL AC-F055C-MC CXQUBC0 DEC/X11 CROSS-REFERENCE MANUAL AF-F055C-M1 MD-ZZ-CXQUB UPDATE AC-F057N-MC CXBMCN0 BOOTSTRAP ROM MOD AC-F060C-MC CXBMDC0 LSI-11 BDV11 MOD AC-F063B-MC CXBMEB0 BM873-YF MODULE AC-F066B-MC CXBMFB0 BM873-YH MODULE AC-F069B-MC CXBMGB0 BM873-YJ MODULE AC-F072B-MC CXBMHB0 M9312 MODULE AC-F084B-MC CXPLAB0 PCL11 MODULE AC-F087C-MC CXRPDC0 RP04,5,6 MOD AC-F098C-MC CXRXBC0 RX02 MODULE AC-F234A-MC CXNCBA0 NCV-11A MODULE AC-F416A-NC CXMNAA0 MNCAD (A/D) MODULE AC-F419A-MC CXMNBA0 MNCDI MODULE AC-F422A-MC CXMNCA0 MNCKW MODULE AC-F425A-MC CXMNDA0 MNCDA (D/A) MODULE AC-F428A-MC CXMNEA0 MNCDO MODULE From aek at spies.com Sat Dec 25 16:40:03 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: XXDP inventory (warning: long list) Message-ID: <20041225224003.2F4B04B05@spies.com> I will scan the following three first as they describe XXDP *itself* : - AC-F053B-MC CXQUAB0 DECX11 USER'S MANUAL - AC-F055C-MC CXQUBC0 DEC/X11 CROSS-REFERENCE MANUAL - both of these are already on line at www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/XXDP From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Dec 25 16:48:21 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: bits and butts In-Reply-To: <200412250850.IAA21364@citadel.metropolis.local> References: <200412250850.IAA21364@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <20041225144730.A90577@shell.lmi.net> > How many computers (automatic, electronic, digital, > stored-program, etc) used an odd number of bits? I assume that you don't want to include PARITY bits, ECC, or other "appendages" to the actual data bits ? From fernande at internet1.net Sat Dec 25 17:24:53 2004 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <41CD365F.90300@gjcp.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20041224091330.00793b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <41CD365F.90300@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <41CDF6C5.4060100@internet1.net> Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > Well, that's just down to stupidity. That's called an interference engine. > A new timing belt costs a tenner > at the most and even on an absolutely evil b*st*rd of an engine to work > on (step forward, Citroen XM 2.5TD, not nearly as nice an engine as the > CX 25DTR) it takes at worst a couple of hours to fit. I can do Volvo 2- > and 3-series belts in about half-an-hour... Do these engines sit transversely in a front wheel drive (fwd) car? Most cars here are fwd, and have the engines positioned transversely. A lot of times you will have to disconnect at least one of the engine mounts and lift the engine up. Also, since it's bound to be an overhead cam engine, the accessorys will have to come off. > As to why we use timing belts, well... The problem with timing chain > designs is that the chains wear and go slack. I don't know too much about chains used with overhead cams, but on push rod engines this doesn't happen until many miles are on the vehicle. The only problem I've had with a chain, actually was the top timing gear, not the chain itself. It was on my 69 Buick LeSabre. The top gear was aluminum with nylon or plastic teeth. They stripped off, while on the highway. This happened in 1995, so the car was about 26 years old, with 100K miles on it. I thought the gear design was dumb, but I assume it was done for sound or vibration purposes. I know GM may not rank very high with the Europeans on the list, but it's one of my favorite cars that I've owned. I did have belt problems once on my 1982 Dodge with a 2.2L engine. I got it wet in the snow, since I plowed into a snowbank, with the plastic cover off. I had a heck of a time getting it back into position, after it skipped. I didn't really know how to get the belt around the tensioner, cam pulley, and crank pulley with out throwing the timing off. I was probably sick and tired of working on the car, in the cold, and ran out of patience. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 25 18:12:17 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <41CDF6C5.4060100@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Dec 25, 4 06:24:53 pm Message-ID: > > Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > > > Well, that's just down to stupidity. > > That's called an interference engine. I suspect it's difficult to make a Diesel which isn't -- the compression ratio is pretty high in such engines (I am used to changing the timing belt on the Citroen BX Diesel engine (XUD engine)). > > Do these engines sit transversely in a front wheel drive (fwd) car? Old Citroens actually had longtitudinal engines, sometimes with the transmission _in front_ of the engine (!) (Citroen made fwd cars long before they were common), but I think those all used timing chaims, and weren't overhead cam (I've never seen a non-overhead-cam engine with a timing belt). The ones I am used to (and the previous cars with timing belts I've worked on) have transverse engines. The only problem due to that is the limited space for getting the belt between the timing-gear end of the engine and the inner wing panel. > Most cars here are fwd, and have the engines positioned transversely. A > lot of times you will have to disconnect at least one of the engine > mounts and lift the engine up. Also, since it's bound to be an overhead > cam engine, the accessorys will have to come off. OK, the procedure for the BX diesel, as far as I remember it is : Jack up the front of the car, remove the road wheel on the timing-gear side. Take off the plastic cover on the inner wing panel (press-in studs). Take off the air filter and intake box (this is not essential, but it makes life a lot easier!). Loosen the alternator mounts, unscrrw the belt tensioner (this is the only car I've worked on with a tension screw for the alternator belt, rather than having to pull out the alternator to tension the belt and then tightenting the moutings without letting go!). Remove the alternator belkt Engage 5th gear, handbrake on (this works on the front wheels..), undo the bolt on the crakshaft pulley. This is tight, and goes in with locking compound, so it takes a bit of moving, still.... Remove the crackshaft pulley. Put the bolt hack in, so you can use it to turn the engine. Mremove the top parts of the belt cover (slot in), and the lower part (2 bolts). Enggage neutral. Turn the engine with the pulley bolt until the timing marks all line up. Put a 'timing pin' (a Torx key of the right size works) in the hole behind the starter motor, so that it goes into the flywheel. Put 1 8mm bolt in the hole in the cam pulley, 2 in the holes in the injector pump pullet to lock those at the timing point. Put a jack under the timing case end of the sump. Remove the top part of the engine mouting on that side (the belt runs _through_ the mounting block!). Loosen the tensioner fising bolts. Pull back the tensioner (there's a square hole in the plate to take a 3/8" square drive), tighten one of the bolts to hold it. Take off the timing belt, fit the new one (remember everthing iomportant is locked at the timing point, so there's no chance of it moving). Check there's no slack on the front side of the belt) Release the tensioner bolts, let the tensioner do its job, retighten. Remove the locking bolts and timing pin. Tuen the engine through 2 complete revolutions by hand. Release and retighten the tensioner. Check the bolts and pin will go in again. Put the engine mounting back on, rtemove the jack, put the other bits back. > > > As to why we use timing belts, well... The problem with timing chain > > designs is that the chains wear and go slack. > > I don't know too much about chains used with overhead cams, but on push > rod engines this doesn't happen until many miles are on the vehicle. Having read many workshop manuals, it seems that engines with chain-driven ocerhead camshafts can be a pain to pull the head from. You either have to dismantle the complete timing case (which often involves dropping the sump, and which may not be possible with the engine in the car), or puse a special tool to hold the cam sprocket after removing it, and hope it doesn't slip (or you'll have to remove the timing case to get it all back. The belt, being essentially outside the engine, is a lot easier to deal with. -tony From tomj at wps.com Sat Dec 25 18:28:57 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: Back to computing topic ... Re: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <20041225104418.78077.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041225104418.78077.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Dec 2004, Computer Collector Newsletter wrote: > Well I hope this brings back happy memories of the show itself, not bad > memories of the local police dispatcher: > > http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2004-July/045630.html That's hard to top! From tomj at wps.com Sat Dec 25 18:39:37 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: Back to computing topic ... Re: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <20041225192204.LGEY1863.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@wizard> References: <41CD3FA4.4010909@gjcp.net> <20041225192204.LGEY1863.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@wizard> Message-ID: My car, a 1963 Rambler Classic 550 Cross Country (aka "station wagon") originally had seven transistors in the radio, and two in the voltage regulator. As part of the LPG fuel conversion (I did in 1989) I added a "computer", which fits a 1963 definition of the word; it's basically a few opamps powering the servo loop that controls fuel mixture. Oxygen sensor in the exhaust tells the "computer" mixture error, which it adjusts by PWMing a solenoid applying engine vacuum to the pressure regulator (aka "convertor"). About 8 DIP packages. Autotronics 4045 or something (RTFM). I added a "late model" electronic ignition. Three transistors and a zener in there. Beats mechanical points all to hell. Another three transistors and a zener, in a so-called "one-wire" alternator. The stereo has ICs in it (dammit). It's all slightly crossed the border into too much complexity for me, aesthetically. From pkoning at equallogic.com Sat Dec 25 18:58:57 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: bits and butts References: <2672.192.168.0.7.1103917131.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> <1520.192.168.0.7.1103936769.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <16846.3281.365000.960902@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Jennings writes: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ... bits ... Tom> On Sat, 25 Dec 2004, Witchy wrote: >> Yep, all of that :) Tom> How many computers (automatic, electronic, digital, Tom> stored-program, etc) used an odd number of bits? Philips EL-X8, home of the famous THE operating system -- 27 bits. Tom> Were any of them not signed-magnitude? Eg. odd number of bits Tom> 2's complement? I'm not sure. Might have a reference somewhere. Also, wasn't the Goodyear STARAN supercomputer a one bit computer? paul From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat Dec 25 19:28:24 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: clueless eBay seller for today is: References: <3.0.6.32.20041221152552.00980840@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><3.0.6.32.20041221162211.0091a600@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <001101c4eaa6$2f65fbe0$0100a8c0@screamer> Message-ID: <007401c4eaea$320ff550$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> On the HP power supply and cheater plug... I'm fairly certain, although not positive, that you can "fix" this problem. A) Get a battery cheater plug. Of course that's the obvious answer. I think it's a 1K resistor across pins 3 & 6. But... or B) I THINK that you can cleanly and effectively remove the battery backup option from the HP power supply by opening the power supply and removing two printed circuit cards. The power supply still works perfectly, just no batter backup. I have never tried this, but I am quite sure that the battery backup option could be added to a power supply which didn't include the option. When you ordered this, you got two PCA's that went into the power supply, plus the battery itself. So if you don't have the batter, and no cheater plug, I think you could just remove the two PCA's and run fine. Jay From pkoning at equallogic.com Sat Dec 25 19:30:50 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: bits and butts References: <200412250850.IAA21364@citadel.metropolis.local> <20041225144730.A90577@shell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <16846.5194.907000.339917@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Fred" == Fred Cisin writes: >> How many computers (automatic, electronic, digital, >> stored-program, etc) used an odd number of bits? Fred> I assume that you don't want to include PARITY bits, ECC, or Fred> other "appendages" to the actual data bits ? Hm. That brings up two marginal examples... Presumably parity and ECC don't count. So how about the IBM 1620? A decimal machine, using 6 bits per digit of which one is the parity, leaving 5 "data" bits (4 magnitude plus sign). Second, the Burroughs 6000 series (and 5500 presumably also) -- normally described as 48 bit machines, but they have 3 "tag" bits on each word that indicate what type of information is in that word. For example tag of 0 means this is data, tag of 7 means this is an instruction word. The security of those systems depended on those tags. paul From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat Dec 25 19:32:13 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: Back to computing topic ... Re: OT: timing belts References: <20041225104418.78077.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008501c4eaea$ba3c0900$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > That's hard to top! Actually, I'm fairly sure that the question posed about my flat tire is a trick question. There were no computers on the trailer. The trailer contained two empty HP racks, two 7906D drives, and one 7912 drive. The racks were about 102 each, the 7912 was about 95 pounds, and the 7906's are about 110 pounds each. All computers were actually inside the van. Fortunately, I came back with a lot more computers than I took up there :) Jay From GOOI at oce.nl Sun Dec 26 03:53:32 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: XXDP inventory (warning: long list) Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A01113461@gd-mail03.oce.nl> > I will scan the following three first as they describe XXDP *itself* : > > - AC-F053B-MC CXQUAB0 DECX11 USER'S MANUAL > - AC-F055C-MC CXQUBC0 DEC/X11 CROSS-REFERENCE MANUAL > > both of these are already on line at > www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/XXDP Thanks Al, 3 less to scan :~) A question about the naming scheme of the files. As example, let's take this one: AC-E246B-MC CZRLEB0 RL01/RLV11 PERF EXERCISER According to bitsavers that would become something like this: AC-E246B-MC-RL01-RLV11PERF.pdf where the last part gives a brief indication what the xxdp is used for. I wonder if the "AC-E-MC" is useful, but I have no experience in this field, so that part could be very useful but I don't know that. Also, I have a few 'patch' sheets, and their name start with "AF". That would mean that they would not remain together with the original xxdp in a alphabetic list. Furthermore, is the xxdp name (CZRLEB0) not more meaningfull? In that case the file name would become: CZRLEB0-RL01-RLV11-PERF.pdf I'd appreciate any good advice before I start next week. If you can give me (private of course) a URL, I will upload them as I scanned each one of them as .pdf - IF you can use them on bitsavers. - Henk, PA8PDP. From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Sun Dec 26 04:03:35 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:34 2005 Subject: Heathkit H-9 terminal In-Reply-To: <003b01c4e8c8$227df5c0$6401a8c0@ericleni> References: <003b01c4e8c8$227df5c0$6401a8c0@ericleni> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 00:19:33 -0800, Eric & Diane Lenius wrote: > Anyone have a Heathkit H-9 terminal that may be good for parts? Also, How about a manual for the H-11-5 serial interface? I _might_ have the manual you seek... but I won't be able to check for a month. -ethan From gordon at gjcp.net Sun Dec 26 04:35:48 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <41CDF6C5.4060100@internet1.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20041224091330.00793b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <41CD365F.90300@gjcp.net> <41CDF6C5.4060100@internet1.net> Message-ID: <41CE9404.1070800@gjcp.net> Chad Fernandez wrote: > Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > >> Well, that's just down to stupidity. > > > That's called an interference engine. Yes, I know some small Vauxhall/Opel engines don't run interference. >> A new timing belt costs a tenner at the most and even on an >> absolutely evil b*st*rd of an engine to work on (step forward, Citroen >> XM 2.5TD, not nearly as nice an engine as the CX 25DTR) it takes at >> worst a couple of hours to fit. I can do Volvo 2- and 3-series belts >> in about half-an-hour... > > Do these engines sit transversely in a front wheel drive (fwd) car? Most > cars here are fwd, and have the engines positioned transversely. A lot > of times you will have to disconnect at least one of the engine mounts > and lift the engine up. Also, since it's bound to be an overhead cam > engine, the accessorys will have to come off. The Volvo engines are inline, and in the case of the 240 there's *loads* of room to get in about it. On both of those it's just a case of taking the fanbelt off, taking the belt cover off, locking the engine at TDC (there's a hole thoughtfully provided in the crank, covered by a bolt in the block) and then changing the belt. On the Citroens, however... It's transverse, and you can barely get a reputable credit card between the cover and the inner wheelarch (particularly on the XM). However, you can jack the car with its hydraulics, prop it up nice and high, and remove the driver's (right, in this country) wheel, and get at it all through the wheelarch. The only one I've ever had to remove an engine mounting to do was a Nissan Micra, where whichever way you go at it, the belt cover is blocked by the top mounting. Silly design. >> As to why we use timing belts, well... The problem with timing chain >> designs is that the chains wear and go slack. > > I don't know too much about chains used with overhead cams, but on push > rod engines this doesn't happen until many miles are on the vehicle. Because pushrod engines typically have very short chains. Compare them with the miles of chain used in Volvo B27 engines (2- and 7-series V6, Renault 30, Delorean)! > The only problem I've had with a chain, actually was the top timing > gear, not the chain itself. It was on my 69 Buick LeSabre. The top > gear was aluminum with nylon or plastic teeth. They stripped off, while > on the highway. This happened in 1995, so the car was about 26 years > old, with 100K miles on it. I thought the gear design was dumb, but I > assume it was done for sound or vibration purposes. I know GM may not > rank very high with the Europeans on the list, but it's one of my > favorite cars that I've owned. Yeah, as I think I said in another post, the Essex V6 used in old Fords had fibre teeth. You can replace the gear set with an all-steel one but it's hellish noisy. > I did have belt problems once on my 1982 Dodge with a 2.2L engine. I > got it wet in the snow, since I plowed into a snowbank, with the plastic > cover off. I had a heck of a time getting it back into position, after > it skipped. I didn't really know how to get the belt around the > tensioner, cam pulley, and crank pulley with out throwing the timing > off. I was probably sick and tired of working on the car, in the cold, > and ran out of patience. Argh. Yes, a lot of engines seem to need a special tool to move the tensioner. Interestingly enough, the aircooled flat four in my Citroen GSA has two little holes blanked off by rubber plugs in the outer fan cowling, so you can slacken and retighten the tensioner locknuts. Apparently you do this every 10,000 miles. Gordon. From gordon at gjcp.net Sun Dec 26 04:39:12 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41CE94D0.1030604@gjcp.net> Tony Duell wrote: > ... but I think those all used timing chaims, and > weren't overhead cam (I've never seen a non-overhead-cam engine with a > timing belt). I *think* the CX 2.5 diesel uses a timing belt for the injector pump and a cam chain for the cam and auxiliary drive (the camshaft projects through the bellhousing end, and the alternator, hydraulic pump and aircon pump are mounted above the gearbox). Gordon. From gordon at gjcp.net Sun Dec 26 04:46:14 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041225115937.00992100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20041224091330.00793b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041224091330.00793b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041225115937.00992100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <41CE9676.3050101@gjcp.net> Joe R. wrote: > At 09:43 AM 12/25/04 +0000, you wrote: > >>Joe R. wrote: >> >>> The '68 chevy didn't use a timing belt, it used a timing chain. Just >>>like all the REAL American cars! Personally I wish they all still did. I >>>hate these stupid rubber timing belts! All they're good for is generating >>>revenue for the delaers when they slip or break and you end having to buy >>>half of a new engine or a new car. >> >>Well, that's just down to stupidity. > > > Tell me how it's supidity when you have a factory belt installed by a > factory trained mechanic and it jumps timing with less than 1000 miles on > the new belt and destroys half the engine! I'm waiting for an answer! It's not been fitted properly. This is why I never trust garages to do any work on my cars. > > A new timing belt costs a tenner > >>at the most > > > Hah! Just bought one for my Mitsubishi Diamonte. $170+ ! Plus 3.5 hours > of labor at $99/hr. The last several that I've bought have all been over > $100 except for the one for the Subaru and it was $80 something (ten years > ago!) IIRC the one for the Maxima was $120+ in 1987! Did you get that from a Mitsi dealer? I don't know how labour costs scale between the UK and the US, but $99/hour sounds incredibly high - my dentist doesn't charge that much! > Also just had one changed on my daughter's Daewoo. They want you to > replace all the related tensioners, pullys, etc at the same time. Those > parts alone were almost $500!!! I was lucky in that the car still had 3000 > miles left on the warrenty. The belt broke in that one at 57,000 miles and > the cost to fix everything was over $1200. I still have the paper work and > can show it to you if you don't believe me. Yeah, because on nearly every car that uses them you need to do the timing belt every 30,000 miles! Have you read the handbook, or the service guide? If the belt has broken, who knows what kind of mayhem the bits may have caused? A lot of engines use cheap and crappy pressed steel camshaft pulleys, which *do* get bent if the belt breaks and gets wedged under the cover. Honda do a V6 engine, that is used in their own cars and in Rover 827s. The cars (I forget what model of Honda, possibly an Accord) are mechanically identical. The Honda service guide says to replace the belt at 30,000 miles. The Rover service guide says to replace the belt at 50,000 miles. Guess which make you find in the scrapyards, with broken timing belts and bent valves? >>on (step forward, Citroen XM 2.5TD, not nearly as nice an engine as the >>CX 25DTR) it takes at worst a couple of hours to fit. I can do Volvo 2- >>and 3-series belts in about half-an-hour... > > > I wish you'd come do the belt in my Mitsubishi! I'd PAY to see someone > change it's belt in 1/2 hour! > If it's as easy to get at as the Volvo, with its cavernous engine bay... Gordon. From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Sun Dec 26 05:08:20 2004 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: bits and butts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c4eb3b$363bc0e0$4d4d2c0a@atx> > How many computers (automatic, electronic, digital, > stored-program, etc) used an odd number of bits? Marginally before my time, but I understand that the Elliot 803 used a 39-bit word - there were some very weird word sizes around then. I've used machines with word sizes of 8,12,16,24,32,36, and 60 bits - and written an assembler for a machine with differing code and data word sizes. > > Were any of them not signed-magnitude? Eg. odd number of bits > 2's complement? Don't know about the 803 - suspect it was 2s complement. On even word sizes I have come across all 3 "normal" representations for the sign. (CDC 1s complement, most fixed point 2s complement, some floating-point sign/magnitude) > Andy -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 22/12/04 From bert at brothom.nl Sun Dec 26 06:42:18 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: q about PDP11/34 schematics (clock generation) Message-ID: <41CEB1AA.A8A30F35@brothom.nl> Hi all, Can anyone explain to me how the clock generation of the PDP11/34 works? I see in the schematics on page 1-5 that clock signals are "generated" (?) by a delay line. That is: the component is referenced as E104 and the parts list mentions it as "delay line 150nS" As I don't have any other info on this part, I'd like to find out how this component works. Appearantly there are multiple signals coming from this device. Please forgive me my ignorance, I think I might be to young to know (30). TIA Bert From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 26 08:45:49 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: q about PDP11/34 schematics (clock generation) In-Reply-To: <41CEB1AA.A8A30F35@brothom.nl> from "Bert Thomas" at Dec 26, 4 01:42:18 pm Message-ID: > > Hi all, > > Can anyone explain to me how the clock generation of the PDP11/34 works? > I see in the schematics on page 1-5 that clock signals are "generated" > (?) by a delay line. That is: the component is referenced as E104 and > the parts list mentions it as "delay line 150nS" As I don't have any > other info on this part, I'd like to find out how this component works. > Appearantly there are multiple signals coming from this device. I don't have the 11/34 schematics to hand (I can get them out if need be), but I can give some general comments. A delay line is what the name implies. A component that delays a signal, here a digital signal. If the input changes, then the output changes a certain time (here 150ns) later. The reason for multiple outputs (often called 'taps' is that you can get signals delayed by different amounts. A 150ns delay line may have 5 taps, say, 30ns apart. If the input changes, the first tap changes after 30ns,the next after 60ns, etc. Typicaly, you make an oscillator from a delay line by invertiong the output and feeding it back to the input (the 11/34 may well be a lot more complicated than this, there may be circuity to halt the clock under certain conditions). Suppose the input to the delay line was 0, and has just gone to 1. The output remains 0 for the next 150ns (since that's the delay time), then goes to 1 also. So after 150ns, the output goes to one, that's inverted, and so the input goes to 0. After another 150ns, the output goes to 0, that's inverted,. and the input goes to 1. Then the cycle repeats. You have a nscillator with a period of about 300ns. -tony From glen.slick at gmail.com Sun Dec 26 10:45:13 2004 From: glen.slick at gmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: HP DMI info sought In-Reply-To: <001f01c4e0ca$b66deed0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <001f01c4e0ca$b66deed0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <1e1fc3e9041226084525e9037e@mail.gmail.com> What information are you looking for? Is it answered here in the 12731A Memory Expansion Module Theory of Operation? http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/1000/1000_MEF_EngrRef/92851-90001_Mar81_5.pdf On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 22:17:51 -0600, Jay West wrote: > Anyone have a pdf of either of the following? > > Dynamic Mapping System Installation > 13305-90001 or 12976-90005 > > I can't find that on bitsavers. I have the CE handbook cheatsheats, but I'm > looking for something a little more expansive. > > Thanks in advance! > > Jay West > > From dundas at caltech.edu Sun Dec 26 11:22:15 2004 From: dundas at caltech.edu (dundas@caltech.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <7932462915dundas@caltech.edu> Erik, I assume it's taken by now, but just for interest, where in CA was the system? Or is that Canada as opposed to California? I'm in Pasadena/Los Angeles, for future reference. Merry Christmas, John From glen.slick at gmail.com Sun Dec 26 11:56:32 2004 From: glen.slick at gmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: clueless eBay seller for today is: In-Reply-To: <007401c4eaea$320ff550$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <3.0.6.32.20041221152552.00980840@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041221162211.0091a600@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <001101c4eaa6$2f65fbe0$0100a8c0@screamer> <007401c4eaea$320ff550$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <1e1fc3e90412260956765ecc63@mail.gmail.com> I can't find my scanned copy of the HP 1000 power supply manual which has the details, but think the specified resistor plug value is something 820, not 1K. In practice that difference might not matter. On the 21MX "B" type power supplies the Battery Chager Board (5061-1348) plugs into an empty slot on the power supply motherboard, but the Battery Backup Board (5061-1349) replaces the Jumper Board (5061-1351). I don't have a Jumper Board to look at and I can't find the right manual with the schematic of the Jumper Board but I'm pretty sure it has some components on it and the power supply would not operate if neither it nor the Batter Backup Board were installed. On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 19:28:24 -0600, Jay West wrote: > On the HP power supply and cheater plug... > > I'm fairly certain, although not positive, that you can "fix" this problem. > > A) Get a battery cheater plug. Of course that's the obvious answer. I think > it's a 1K resistor across pins 3 & 6. But... > > or > > B) I THINK that you can cleanly and effectively remove the battery backup > option from the HP power supply by opening the power supply and removing two > printed circuit cards. The power supply still works perfectly, just no > batter backup. I have never tried this, but I am quite sure that the battery > backup option could be added to a power supply which didn't include the > option. When you ordered this, you got two PCA's that went into the power > supply, plus the battery itself. So if you don't have the batter, and no > cheater plug, I think you could just remove the two PCA's and run fine. > > Jay > > From fernande at internet1.net Sun Dec 26 12:59:59 2004 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <41CE9404.1070800@gjcp.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20041224091330.00793b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <41CD365F.90300@gjcp.net> <41CDF6C5.4060100@internet1.net> <41CE9404.1070800@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <41CF0A2F.5000704@internet1.net> Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > Yes, I know some small Vauxhall/Opel engines don't run interference. I don't think many GM engines do. > Yeah, as I think I said in another post, the Essex V6 used in old Fords > had fibre teeth. You can replace the gear set with an all-steel one but > it's hellish noisy. I've never noticed it being loud in my Buick, now that I have all steel. Actually, what I put in my Buick is that pressed powdered metal stuff. The loudest I've heard is an aftermarket gear drive. It whines like a roots supercharger. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From vcf at siconic.com Sun Dec 26 13:13:58 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: Apollo Guidance Computer prototype replica In-Reply-To: <41CC6CF2.A81DE625@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Dec 2004, jim stephens wrote: > I was thinking blinken lights though this fellow is light years ahead of what > I could do. Also I would think the project done on a single small board > with an fpga would be a better way to do it, brought out to the DSKY, or > built into it. The journey is the reward. Re-creating the original prototype using similar tools and components as they would have at NASA in the 1960s will probably teach you a lot more about the history than rendering it in an FPGA. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sun Dec 26 13:21:24 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 available in CA In-Reply-To: <019201c4ea13$0cd0df70$6e7ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Dec 2004, Erik S. Klein wrote: > I got this via email late yesterday: > ? > "Would you know of anyone that would be interested in a DEC PDP11-34? We > just got one in stock and I can provide you with pix and a list of the > boards inside if you need." > ? > So, if you might be interested in the 11/34 please let me know and I'll > put you in touch with the seller. Is this from that DEC reseller in N. Cal? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From gordon at gjcp.net Sun Dec 26 13:59:29 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 available in CA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41CF1821.7070208@gjcp.net> Bah, why is all the good big iron always in the US? Still looking out for a PDP-11 of my own... Gordon. From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Dec 26 14:01:29 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 available in CA In-Reply-To: <41CF1821.7070208@gjcp.net> References: <41CF1821.7070208@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <41CF1899.9040407@mdrconsult.com> Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > Bah, why is all the good big iron always in the US? A) Because the US is big, and B) Because the common US business model is incredibly wasteful. Doc From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Dec 26 13:59:29 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: Apollo Guidance Computer prototype replica References: Message-ID: <41CF1821.9010100@jetnet.ab.ca> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > The journey is the reward. Re-creating the original prototype using > similar tools and components as they would have at NASA in the 1960s will > probably teach you a lot more about the history than rendering it in an > FPGA. But I want the whole System! Anybody got a Spare Saturn V booster to go with that computer. :) Also the computer is visible --- that wire is a clock, that bit is a adder section, that part is the memory. Ben. From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Dec 26 09:34:28 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <41CE9404.1070800@gjcp.net> References: <41CDF6C5.4060100@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20041226203415.OUTH1899.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@wizard> > Yes, I know some small Vauxhall/Opel engines don't run interference. Chrysler 2.2L and 2.5L (both four inline) aren't interference engine. And runs long timing belt. > > >> A new timing belt costs a tenner at the most and even on an > >> absolutely evil b*st*rd of an engine to work on (step forward, Citroen > >> XM 2.5TD, not nearly as nice an engine as the CX 25DTR) it takes at > >> worst a couple of hours to fit. I can do Volvo 2- and 3-series belts > >> in about half-an-hour... A good mechanic can do this on 2.2/2.5 also. Partially drain coolant, you'll see later. Take both belts (one runs PS, other belt runs alternator & water pump) or three if equipped with A/C. Now remove bolts and two nuts (all 10mm) for both upper and lower covers. On earlier 2.2 (before mid 87) external trox socket to remove crankshaft pulley bolts (four), later 87 used regular bolts. Now lower cover falls off. Take a car jack that came with that car and piece of wood to protect oil pan, jack up the engine to take load off the right side engine mount. Undo the nut and yoke bolt & nut, remove two bolts on the inner fender then remove mount. Undo the bolt on the eccentric tensioner to get it rotated away and lightly tighten to keep it there. Align marks according to the service manual, intermediate spocket turns too freely makes this job tricky while putting new belt on. Line up the groove on flywheel to 0 deg (TDC), line the cam spocket with arrows evenly with parting line on head with small hole uppermost. Rotate the intermediate spocket that it's nick in rim of spocket is pointing to tiny drilled hole in edge of the crankshaft spocket. Tension the belt with weighted tool or twist belt longest side almost 90 to check tension. Manually turn over engine 2 turns and recheck alignment and retension belt again. Reassemble in reverse order. This what I did on my 1987 caravan 2.2L carb. > >> As to why we use timing belts, well... The problem with timing chain > >> designs is that the chains wear and go slack. That's true, it depends on user to do regular oil changes and quality of design originally. For example, mitsubishi 2.6 is very fussy on maintaince. But even with good care the guides are covered with nylon wears through then wears through aluminum guide like no tomorrow and bam, balance shafts stops rotating that oil pump and engine self-destructs with oil pressure loss. Chain tensioning is done with oil pressure. This 2.6 mitsu has two long chains because of balance shafts far apart and camshaft is on top of head. Mitsu currently uses their quirky designs in later engines and more involved compared to others unlike Citroen is bit quirky. V6 3.0L is one another quirky engine to work on. Water pump driven by timing belt and to do this job repair, everything on front end of engine has to come off and have to replace water pipes to prevent coolant leaks because old ones is rusted. > > I don't know too much about chains used with overhead cams, but on push > > rod engines this doesn't happen until many miles are on the vehicle. Chain is still used on some modern engine with overhead chains even some used a short length of chain to turn twin cam, either driven by belt or chain. > Because pushrod engines typically have very short chains. Compare them > with the miles of chain used in Volvo B27 engines (2- and 7-series V6, > Renault 30, Delorean)! I really like push rods for that design, and I really don't see the reason that chrsyler engineers (allpar.com has artcles on this) had to use belt on 2.2 & 2.5L due to weight issues. WTF!? > > The only problem I've had with a chain, actually was the top timing > > gear, not the chain itself. It was on my 69 Buick LeSabre. The top > > gear was aluminum with nylon or plastic teeth. They stripped off, while > > on the highway. This happened in 1995, so the car was about 26 years > > old, with 100K miles on it. I thought the gear design was dumb, but I > > assume it was done for sound or vibration purposes. I know GM may not > > rank very high with the Europeans on the list, but it's one of my > > favorite cars that I've owned. Noise reasons that most makers went with nylon coated spockets or gears. Time had progressed that they went back to all metal since understanding in making quiet drive trains. > Yeah, as I think I said in another post, the Essex V6 used in old Fords > had fibre teeth. You can replace the gear set with an all-steel one but > it's hellish noisy. Fibre gears is rather durable compared to nylon for their time but heat & wear equally destroys the wear resistance on both types of composite drive trains. > > I did have belt problems once on my 1982 Dodge with a 2.2L engine. I > > got it wet in the snow, since I plowed into a snowbank, with the plastic > > cover off. Tsk tsk... now you know better to keep covers in place, that's the major reason. I had to go to junkyard to get upper cover for mine or from dealer's. Not expensive. > Argh. Yes, a lot of engines seem to need a special tool to move the > tensioner. That's true still. Some are not that special, just make a flat tool to tension off the assy belt or put belt back on on chrysler 3.3 & 3.8L engine, oh yes real old fashioned push rod engines with short chain, all metal spockets. Rather reliable. > Gordon. Cheers, Wizard From fernande at internet1.net Sun Dec 26 15:52:25 2004 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <20041226203415.OUTH1899.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@wizard> References: <41CDF6C5.4060100@internet1.net> <20041226203415.OUTH1899.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@wizard> Message-ID: <41CF3299.3010909@internet1.net> jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: >>Yes, I know some small Vauxhall/Opel engines don't run interference. > > > Chrysler 2.2L and 2.5L (both four inline) aren't interference engine. > And runs long timing belt. I figured that. I liked mine. It was an 82 Dodge Charger. I brought home my first desktop PCs in the hatch, an IBM 5150, and an IBM XT case with mostly aftermarket guts. I think I got the whole pile for $30. > I really like push rods for that design, and I really don't see the > reason that chrsyler engineers (allpar.com has artcles on this) had > to use belt on 2.2 & 2.5L due to weight issues. WTF!? Chains are normally enclosed in castings and sealed from the outside areas because they are exposed to engine oil. A belt can be covered with a simple plastic shrowd, like on the 2.2L Chrysler. That's were the biggest weight differance would come from. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Dec 26 15:53:18 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <41CE9676.3050101@gjcp.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20041224091330.00793b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041224091330.00793b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041225115937.00992100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <41CE9676.3050101@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <20041226134854.E99855@shell.lmi.net> On Sun, 26 Dec 2004, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > Honda do a V6 engine, that is used in their own cars and in Rover 827s. In the mid to late 1970's, Honda was non-interference. Less than one in a hundred broken cambelts involved other engine damage. I once did a cambelt on a civic on the freeway shoulder, with no tools but a swiss army knife and a 5WR Vise-grip. ... and still managed to get out of there before the Caltrans tow truck arrived. I'm sorry to hear that they're now interference. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From spc at conman.org Sun Dec 26 16:03:14 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: Apollo Guidance Computer prototype replica In-Reply-To: <41CF1821.9010100@jetnet.ab.ca> from "Ben Franchuk" at Dec 26, 2004 12:59:29 PM Message-ID: <20041226220314.B7F2173029@linus.groomlake.area51> It was thus said that the Great Ben Franchuk once stated: > > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > The journey is the reward. Re-creating the original prototype using > > similar tools and components as they would have at NASA in the 1960s will > > probably teach you a lot more about the history than rendering it in an > > FPGA. > > But I want the whole System! Anybody got a Spare Saturn V booster to go with > that computer. :) While I don't have one, there are a few just lying around in central Florida---I'm sure you might be able to work out a deal with the owner 8-P -spc (Although the fuel might be a bit hard to come by) From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Dec 26 11:03:47 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <41CF3299.3010909@internet1.net> References: <20041226203415.OUTH1899.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@wizard> Message-ID: <20041226220334.VWQF2026.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@wizard> > jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > > Chrysler 2.2L and 2.5L (both four inline) aren't interference engine. > > And runs long timing belt. > > I figured that. I liked mine. It was an 82 Dodge Charger. I brought > home my first desktop PCs in the hatch, an IBM 5150, and an IBM XT case > with mostly aftermarket guts. I think I got the whole pile for $30. Great you liked that engine. It is so strong that mopar and owners tinkered with them and many are capable of excess of 300HP to 400HP ranges. > Chains are normally enclosed in castings and sealed from the outside > areas because they are exposed to engine oil. A belt can be covered > with a simple plastic shrowd, like on the 2.2L Chrysler. That's were > the biggest weight differance would come from. Not too much really. Use stamped steel or cast aluminum with good seal design to keep weight down and a redesigned oil pan and valve cover to seal both front end of pan to the chain cover. Those two big belt spockets are heavy and made of sintered metal. Both front and rear sides on these blocks are milled flat, would be nice spot for simple chain cover to seal with, different right side mount design and spacers to take care of different cover. Cheers, Wizard From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Dec 26 16:17:39 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: Back to computing topic ... Re: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <20041225095257.53375.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041225095257.53375.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20041226141320.J99855@shell.lmi.net> > Ummm, I started the off-topicness here, so I'll try to end it by putting > forward these questions: > - What is the most odd computer you've encountered in a car's drivetrain? Bosch ("Botched"?) fool injection "brain" in 1968 VW type 3. > - What is the largest computer you've fit into a car? If peripherals count, howzbout FIVE DTC300 Hitype I terminals on stands with a 1974 Civic hatchback. (I hadn't expected to bring back much from that session of John Craig's "Computer Swap America"). I packed them in, and tied some onto the roof. I had a librarian friend along, who had never previously had to climb in and out of a car through the window. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From bert at brothom.nl Sun Dec 26 16:49:21 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: q about PDP11/34 schematics (clock generation) References: Message-ID: <41CF3FF1.7755C8A5@brothom.nl> Tony Duell wrote: > > A delay line is what the name implies. A component that delays a signal, > here a digital signal. If the input changes, then the output changes a > certain time (here 150ns) later. How precise is it? Is it comparable to a crystal oscillator regarding stability and accuracy? > The reason for multiple outputs (often called 'taps' is that you can get > signals delayed by different amounts. A 150ns delay line may have 5 taps, > say, 30ns apart. If the input changes, the first tap changes after > 30ns,the next after 60ns, etc. Are these typically linear distributed? I mean: are the time differences between the taps always the same? Thanks for your explaination Tony! Bert From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun Dec 26 16:55:09 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: Available: SCSI disks and SCSI DDS drives Message-ID: <200412261755.10075.pat@computer-refuge.org> We were emptying a cabinet of old disks at work, and I saved a few to erase and offer to the list. I'm asking $5 plus shipping costs for a pair of drives (except for 5.25" FH drives, as noted in list). Price can go down in quantity. :) All drives are 3.5", 50-pin SCSI unless otherwise noted. What's available: IBM drives: 9 x 2GB 1.6" tall/Half height (86F0118 / 86F0101) "Model 664" 1 x 1GB 1.6"/HH (55F9902) "Model 663" 2 x 1GB 1"/ 1/3H (45G9467 / 86G9049) "Model 662" Fujitsu drives: 1 x 1GB 1"/One third height (M1606SAU) 2 x 2GB 1.6"/HH (M2932SAU) 4 x 600MB 1.6"/HH (M2694ESA) 2 x 4GB 1.6"/HH (M2934SAU) 4 x 2GB 5.25" wide full-height (M2654SA) ($5 ea) 2 x 4GB 1"/HH (M2954SYO) Archive DDS drives: 2 x 5.25" HH internal DDS 2/4GB tape drive I want to get rid of the disks as soon as possible, so I'll only be holding onto them until around Jan 3rd. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 26 17:17:57 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: q about PDP11/34 schematics (clock generation) In-Reply-To: <41CF3FF1.7755C8A5@brothom.nl> from "Bert Thomas" at Dec 26, 4 11:49:21 pm Message-ID: > > > > Tony Duell wrote: > > > > A delay line is what the name implies. A component that delays a signal, > > here a digital signal. If the input changes, then the output changes a > > certain time (here 150ns) later. > > How precise is it? Is it comparable to a crystal oscillator regarding > stability and accuracy? I would guess it's considerably less accurate than a crystal, and a bit less stable (although not too bad). I wouldn't want to use one, for example, as the reference for a real time clock. One advantage of the delay line approach is that you can get several clocks offset from each other by know time delays (one from each tap of the line). This is probably why DEC used it in the 11/34 > > > The reason for multiple outputs (often called 'taps' is that you can get > > signals delayed by different amounts. A 150ns delay line may have 5 taps, > > say, 30ns apart. If the input changes, the first tap changes after > > 30ns,the next after 60ns, etc. > > Are these typically linear distributed? I mean: are the time differences > between the taps always the same? For the stnadard off-the-shelf delay lines, yes. I am sure custom ones have been made, though, with taps at odd positions. -tony From vcf at siconic.com Sun Dec 26 18:04:42 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: Compaq OpenVMS CDROM Kits Message-ID: I've got two OpenVMS for Alpha V7.2 CD-ROM Update Kits, new in the box and shrink-wrapped (i.e. never been opened). The product ID on the label is QA-MT1AA-W8. I've also got a V7.1 (product ID is QA-MT1AA-H8) also for Alpha (shrink-wrapped). Best (3) offers by 1/1 gets them. E-mail me directly please. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Dec 26 21:42:06 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <41CE9676.3050101@gjcp.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20041225115937.00992100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041224091330.00793b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041224091330.00793b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20041225115937.00992100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041226224206.00999e10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:46 AM 12/26/04 +0000, you wrote: >Joe R. wrote: >> At 09:43 AM 12/25/04 +0000, you wrote: >> >>>Joe R. wrote: >>> >>>> The '68 chevy didn't use a timing belt, it used a timing chain. Just >>>>like all the REAL American cars! Personally I wish they all still did. I >>>>hate these stupid rubber timing belts! All they're good for is generating >>>>revenue for the delaers when they slip or break and you end having to buy >>>>half of a new engine or a new car. >>> >>>Well, that's just down to stupidity. >> >> >> Tell me how it's supidity when you have a factory belt installed by a >> factory trained mechanic and it jumps timing with less than 1000 miles on >> the new belt and destroys half the engine! I'm waiting for an answer! > >It's not been fitted properly. This is why I never trust garages to do >any work on my cars. It WAS fitted properly. I knew the mechanic personally and I trust him completely. >> >> A new timing belt costs a tenner >> >>>at the most >> >> >> Hah! Just bought one for my Mitsubishi Diamonte. $170+ ! Plus 3.5 hours >> of labor at $99/hr. The last several that I've bought have all been over >> $100 except for the one for the Subaru and it was $80 something (ten years >> ago!) IIRC the one for the Maxima was $120+ in 1987! > >Did you get that from a Mitsi dealer? I don't know how labour costs >scale between the UK and the US, but $99/hour sounds incredibly high - >my dentist doesn't charge that much! Yes that's from a Mitsubishi dealer. $99 is higher than most garages around here but not by much and I wanted to be sure that it was done by someone that knew what they were doing AND that the work was warrantied. I don't want to talk about how much dentist charge around here for 10 minute procedure but it will run $200 to $300, minimum! You can do the math to see what it comes to per hour. > >> Also just had one changed on my daughter's Daewoo. They want you to >> replace all the related tensioners, pullys, etc at the same time. Those >> parts alone were almost $500!!! I was lucky in that the car still had 3000 >> miles left on the warrenty. The belt broke in that one at 57,000 miles and >> the cost to fix everything was over $1200. I still have the paper work and >> can show it to you if you don't believe me. > >Yeah, because on nearly every car that uses them you need to do the >timing belt every 30,000 miles! Have you read the handbook, or the >service guide? Yeah as a matter of fact I have. Strange as it seems Daewoo doesn't have a recommended change interval! I know you won't believe me so go look it up online. It's there. But EVERY (Mitsubishi, Nissan, Hundai, Ford) manual that I've read specifies 60,000 miles. If they're telling you 30,000 then you must have longer miles where you live! As far as reading the owner's handbook I don't think I've ever seen one that told you when to change the belt. They just recommend "service intervals" with no mention what type of service needs to be done. I just read my BMW Z3 OM and it doesn't even tell you when to change the oil! > >If the belt has broken, who knows what kind of mayhem the bits may have >caused? A lot of engines use cheap and crappy pressed steel camshaft >pulleys, which *do* get bent if the belt breaks and gets wedged under >the cover. Go back and reread what I said. The Daewoo dealers recommend changing all the belt pullys, tensioners, etc etc etc with EVERY belt change! Not just when a belt breaks. The cost for all the parts, not including labor, is over $500! > >Honda do a V6 engine, that is used in their own cars and in Rover 827s. > The cars (I forget what model of Honda, possibly an Accord) are >mechanically identical. The Honda service guide says to replace the >belt at 30,000 miles. The Rover service guide says to replace the belt >at 50,000 miles. Guess which make you find in the scrapyards, with >broken timing belts and bent valves? > >>>on (step forward, Citroen XM 2.5TD, not nearly as nice an engine as the >>>CX 25DTR) it takes at worst a couple of hours to fit. I can do Volvo 2- >>>and 3-series belts in about half-an-hour... >> >> >> I wish you'd come do the belt in my Mitsubishi! I'd PAY to see someone >> change it's belt in 1/2 hour! >> > >If it's as easy to get at as the Volvo, with its cavernous engine bay... Cavernous engine bay crammed full of engine, hoses, wiring, sensors and many odd thingies! Joe > >Gordon. > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Dec 26 21:51:06 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <20041226203415.OUTH1899.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@wizard> References: <41CE9404.1070800@gjcp.net> <41CDF6C5.4060100@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041226225106.009a2100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:34 PM 12/26/04 +0000, jpero wrote: > >Mitsu currently uses their quirky designs in later engines and more >involved compared to others unlike Citroen is bit quirky. V6 3.0L is >one another quirky engine to work on. Water pump driven by timing >belt and to do this job repair, everything on front end of engine has >to come off and have to replace water pipes to prevent coolant leaks >because old ones is rusted. > Tht explains a lot. My Diamonte uses that engine and everytime the mechanics work on the engine they want to change the water pump. Joe From tomj at wps.com Mon Dec 27 03:42:51 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <41CE9404.1070800@gjcp.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20041224091330.00793b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <41CD365F.90300@gjcp.net> <41CDF6C5.4060100@internet1.net> <41CE9404.1070800@gjcp.net> Message-ID: Belts are used in production cars for a number of reasons: gears are noisy; using helical cuts etc to lower noise puts thrust onto camshafts causing other problems. Most gear drives are extremely noisy, usually the loudest thing under the hood. Camshaft thrust forces cause "walk" which is generally bad. Rubber belts are quiet, and reliable "enough". Our 96 Honda requires a new one every 60K? miles or so. The rambler, like most american, pre-1980, rear-drive cast-iron engines, has a steel belt, no recommended replacement interval. Mine's 17 yrs old. No reason to even check it for wear. I run synth oil, and LP doesn't cause combustion crud in the oil and lasts 15K+ miles per change, but I change every 8K or so. Nylon gears (for belts) lower noise even more, at slightly reduced life. Good oil change intervals eliminate most problems, eg. maintenance. From gordon at gjcp.net Mon Dec 27 04:07:18 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041226225106.009a2100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <41CE9404.1070800@gjcp.net> <41CDF6C5.4060100@internet1.net> <3.0.6.32.20041226225106.009a2100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <41CFDED6.6030605@gjcp.net> Joe R. wrote: > Tht explains a lot. My Diamonte uses that engine and everytime the > mechanics work on the engine they want to change the water pump. > > Joe Relatively common failure on Citroen 2.1 diesels as fitted to the XM. Funny thing is that the 1.7 and 1.9 version as fitted to BXes, Peugeots, Renaults and some Volvos are mostly unaffected. Change the timing belt and within a few thousand miles you can almost guarantee you'll have a leaking water pump. Gordon. From cheri-post at web.de Mon Dec 27 04:35:54 2004 From: cheri-post at web.de (Pierre Gebhardt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: Question about memory boards used on VAX 11/7xx Message-ID: <620164353@web.de> Hi all, I got 2 Memory Boards (National semiconductor) several weeks ago (each 1MB). Somerwhere on the net, someone says, that these can be used in VAX 11/7xx. Can I use these boards in my PDP 11/24, too ? I don't know yet, if 32bit boards can be used on 16bit machines and I'm afraid of putting them in and seeing some smoke when turning on the machine... Pierre ________________________________________________________________ Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS! Jetzt neu bei WEB.DE FreeMail: http://freemail.web.de/?mc=021193 From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Dec 27 06:23:45 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041226225106.009a2100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <41CE9404.1070800@gjcp.net> <41CDF6C5.4060100@internet1.net> <3.0.6.32.20041226225106.009a2100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1104150225.3630.3.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-12-26 at 22:51 -0500, Joe R. wrote: > At 03:34 PM 12/26/04 +0000, jpero wrote: > > > >Mitsu currently uses their quirky designs in later engines and more > >involved compared to others unlike Citroen is bit quirky. V6 3.0L is > >one another quirky engine to work on. Water pump driven by timing > >belt and to do this job repair, everything on front end of engine has > >to come off and have to replace water pipes to prevent coolant leaks > >because old ones is rusted. > > > Tht explains a lot. My Diamonte uses that engine and everytime the > mechanics work on the engine they want to change the water pump. Most engines I've seen with belts have an idler / tensioner pulley that can be slackened to change the belt though. Having said that a water pump I believe is normally rated for around 60k miles or so, i.e. around twice the belt change interval. cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Dec 27 06:36:47 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <41CD365F.90300@gjcp.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20041224091330.00793b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <41CD365F.90300@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <1104151007.3630.16.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sat, 2004-12-25 at 09:43 +0000, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > Triumph Stag V8s - all notorious for timing chain failures To be fair there most of the breakages in the old days were down to the awful quality control at Triumph; they left a lot of silt in the block as part of the casting process which eventually blocked the oil feeds to the chains, causing them to overheat and fail. In more modern times there have been a lot of substandard-quality repro chains about (you get what you pay for and all that) which are prone to stretch and break. Know what to look for and it's a solid enough design. > ), or just allow the chain to > slop about once it's worn (pretty much every other OHV chain-driven > engine). The tensioners should pick up the slack on the 'undriven' side of the chain so there's no slop, but yep crank-cam timing will alter slightly as chains and sprockets wear. Good chains don't stretch, they just wear. IME it can't be more than about a degree out; much more than that and the wear would be sufficient to induce chain or sprocket failure anyway. > Of course, the Ford Essex 3 litre V6 in my Scimitar solves the problem > by having no belts or chains at all - just two big gears. The large > gear uses fibre teeth which wear after a few hundred thousand miles, but > that's another story.... That seems like a sensible way of doing it. I take it the Essex is quite a flat vee design? (just thinking about the Stag engine which is 90 degrees and there's a hell of a distance between crank and cams) cheers Jules From gordon at gjcp.net Mon Dec 27 07:21:53 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <1104151007.3630.16.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <3.0.6.32.20041224091330.00793b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <41CD365F.90300@gjcp.net> <1104151007.3630.16.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <41D00C71.1060404@gjcp.net> Jules Richardson wrote: >>Of course, the Ford Essex 3 litre V6 in my Scimitar solves the problem >>by having no belts or chains at all - just two big gears. The large >>gear uses fibre teeth which wear after a few hundred thousand miles, but >>that's another story.... > > > That seems like a sensible way of doing it. I take it the Essex is quite > a flat vee design? (just thinking about the Stag engine which is 90 > degrees and there's a hell of a distance between crank and cams) It's 60 degree IIRC. The camshaft sits in the middle of the cylinder banks at the top, with pushrods running up between the inlet ports. Gordon. From gordon at gjcp.net Mon Dec 27 07:26:47 2004 From: gordon at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: Not ten years old, but... Message-ID: <41D00D97.2060502@gjcp.net> ... has anyone had experience of repairing Belinea DH-1764 monitors? It's a rather nice 17" monitor, but it has started losing width - the image is *almost* right with the width set to full but then the pincushion correction goes a bit funny. Cleaned up and resoldered obvious dry joints which stopped the flickering. Dried up electrolytic somewhere? The original symptoms were a width-wise flickering *very* intermittently, then one day I turned it on and the picture was a couple of inches too narrow. Gordon. From wacarder at usit.net Mon Dec 27 09:38:23 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: DECServer 90+ and 90TL Power Supplies Message-ID: I need a power supply (or two or three) for a DECServer 90+ and DECServer 90TL. I recently acquired 3 of these and want to try to connect my 11/40 to my network, but I'm missing the power supplies. Does anyone have one or more power supplies that they would be willing to spare? Please contact me off list. Thanks, Ashley From pat at computer-refuge.org Mon Dec 27 09:52:24 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: Question about memory boards used on VAX 11/7xx In-Reply-To: <620164353@web.de> References: <620164353@web.de> Message-ID: <200412271052.24322.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Monday 27 December 2004 05:35, Pierre Gebhardt wrote: > Hi all, > > I got 2 Memory Boards (National semiconductor) several weeks ago > (each 1MB). Somerwhere on the net, someone says, that these can be > used in VAX 11/7xx. Can I use these boards in my PDP 11/24, too ? > > I don't know yet, if 32bit boards can be used on 16bit machines and > I'm afraid of putting them in and seeing some smoke when turning on > the machine... I doubt it. The 11/24 uses UNIBUS memory, and the 11/78x and 11/750 both have a special memory bus and controller (or multiple controllers). I don't know enough about the 11/730 (& 11/725) to say "definitely no" but it seems quite unlikely that they used straight UNIBUS memory. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From Saquinn624 at aol.com Mon Dec 27 12:38:57 2004 From: Saquinn624 at aol.com (Saquinn624@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: S-100 Polymorphic Systems card questions Message-ID: <85.1dc40762.2f01b0c1@aol.com> I have a S-100 based system that seems to mostly run, but I have some questions on the video card. It is a Polymorphic Systems card, but looks different from all the examples I could find on the internet Markings are: Polymorphic Systems (c) 1976 I.P.C VIDEO? rev 0.0, with most chips aligned vertically The keyboard? port is a 14 pin DIP socket in the upper R.H. corner, next to a 8212 I/O chip. Between this and the VIDEO marking, there are some pads with heat damage that have the symbol for Zener diode across one of them. I have no idea what the component specs are for these pads. Also, 2 questions: does anyone have the DIP switch settings table for this card? 7 switches, currently set at 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 and (2) the 8212 interface makes me think that the keyboard is some sort of parallel interface, but the computer came with a DIP header connected to 3 wires (bonus question: this card has some jumper wires and a resistor soldered on the trace side of the PCB, is this official, or is this a hack? the joints look sort of "hacky" the resistor goes between +Vcc and pin 20 of the 6571AL, the jumpers are between some of the 74XXX gates on the L.H. side of the card [where the 7805 V.R. is]) found it at my church garage sale several years ago, so I can't "ask the owner" Scott Quinn From cheri-post at web.de Mon Dec 27 12:43:39 2004 From: cheri-post at web.de (Pierre Gebhardt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: Question about memory boards used on VAX 11/7xx Message-ID: <620630997@web.de> Hello guys, > > Can I use these boards in my PDP 11/24, too ? > Nope, not if they're 7xx boards. If these are standard UNIBUS boards, > you should be able to use them in both the 7xx and a PDP-11. > That's the info I found on the net from a 11/750 FAQ: "National Semiconductor Memory Systems: 1Mb memory boards. These boards have PWB 551109464-002 B PWA 980109464-001 D etched on them. They have a push-button switch for disabling the board, and a spare memory chip in a socket on the board. Board has green and yellow LEDS, which should normally both be on. Disabling the board causes the yellow LED to go out, and the red LED on the L0016 to come on, indicating bad memory configuration." Fred, what do you mean with "very wide boards" exactly ? These boards do have 6 fingers (hex wide) and fit into a usual UNIBUS slot. What are the differences between the VAX11 bus and the ordinary UNIBUS ? Can I find that out with a closer look to the pins ? Pierre __________________________________________________________ Mit WEB.DE FreePhone mit hoechster Qualitaet ab 0 Ct./Min. weltweit telefonieren! http://freephone.web.de/?mc=021201 From randy at s100-manuals.com Mon Dec 27 12:55:52 2004 From: randy at s100-manuals.com (Randy McLaughlin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: S-100 Polymorphic Systems card questions References: <85.1dc40762.2f01b0c1@aol.com> Message-ID: <000a01c4ec45$b44e37a0$0790d6d1@randylaptop> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 12:38 PM Subject: S-100 Polymorphic Systems card questions > I have a S-100 based system that seems to mostly run, but I have some > questions on the video card. > It is a Polymorphic Systems card, but looks different from all the > examples I > could find on the internet > > Markings are: Polymorphic Systems (c) 1976 I.P.C VIDEO rev 0.0, with most > chips aligned vertically > > The keyboard? port is a 14 pin DIP socket in the upper R.H. corner, next > to a > 8212 I/O chip. > Between this and the VIDEO marking, there are some pads with heat damage > that > have the symbol for Zener diode across one of them. I have no idea what > the > component specs are for these pads. > > Also, 2 questions: does anyone have the DIP switch settings table for this > card? 7 switches, currently set at 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 > > and (2) the 8212 interface makes me think that the keyboard is some sort > of > parallel interface, but the computer came with a DIP header connected to 3 > wires > > (bonus question: this card has some jumper wires and a resistor soldered > on > the trace side of the PCB, is this official, or is this a hack? the joints > look > sort of "hacky" the resistor goes between +Vcc and pin 20 of the 6571AL, > the > jumpers are between some of the 74XXX gates on the L.H. side of the card > [where the 7805 V.R. is]) > > found it at my church garage sale several years ago, so I can't "ask the > owner" > > Scott Quinn You can find the manual for it on my website: http://www.s100-manuals.net/Harte-manuals/PolyMorphic/index.html Randy www.s100-manuals.com From fernande at internet1.net Mon Dec 27 13:15:55 2004 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20041224091330.00793b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <41CD365F.90300@gjcp.net> <41CDF6C5.4060100@internet1.net> <41CE9404.1070800@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <41D05F6B.1000300@internet1.net> Tom Jennings wrote: > The rambler, like most american, pre-1980, rear-drive > cast-iron engines, has a steel belt You mean a chain? I've never seen a steel belt used. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From pat at computer-refuge.org Mon Dec 27 15:33:25 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: Question about memory boards used on VAX 11/7xx In-Reply-To: <620630997@web.de> References: <620630997@web.de> Message-ID: <200412271633.26088.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Monday 27 December 2004 13:43, Pierre Gebhardt wrote: > Hello guys, > > > > Can I use these boards in my PDP 11/24, too ? > > > > Nope, not if they're 7xx boards. If these are standard UNIBUS > > boards, you should be able to use them in both the 7xx and a > > PDP-11. > > That's the info I found on the net from a 11/750 FAQ: > > "National Semiconductor Memory Systems: 1Mb memory boards. These > boards have PWB 551109464-002 B > PWA 980109464-001 D > etched on them. They have a push-button switch for disabling the > board, and a spare memory chip in a socket on the board. Board has > green and yellow LEDS, which should normally both be on. Disabling > the board causes the yellow LED to go out, and the red LED on the > L0016 to come on, indicating bad memory configuration." Those almost certainly aren't UNIBUS memory boards, but are 11/750-specific boards. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Dec 27 18:41:15 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 for Sale Message-ID: <00c101c4ec75$f1f9df70$0e406b43@66067007> NOT MINE and I do not know the seller, buy price is $4000 http://page.auctions.shopping.yahoo.com/auction/88693646 From allain at panix.com Mon Dec 27 19:10:28 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: RL01/02 terminator sought. References: <00c101c4ec75$f1f9df70$0e406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <079e01c4ec7a$05d49680$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I need to test a new RL02 system (my first), but it seems to be missing the RL chain terminator. Could someone loan me theirs for a few weeks? I'll pay the postage both ways. If there is even a spare somewhere, I'll buy or trade a DSSI terminator for it. The system is in good-looking shape: no dirt,dust,rust problems of any magnitude, but it's being difficult... Fault lights for the two RL02's, so I thought the terminator could help there. John A. From wacarder at usit.net Mon Dec 27 19:23:13 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: RL01/02 terminator sought. In-Reply-To: <079e01c4ec7a$05d49680$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: > I need to test a new RL02 system (my first), but it seems to > be missing the RL chain terminator. Could someone loan > me theirs for a few weeks? I'll pay the postage both ways. > If there is even a spare somewhere, I'll buy or trade a DSSI > terminator for it. > > The system is in good-looking shape: no dirt,dust,rust problems > of any magnitude, but it's being difficult... Fault lights for the two > RL02's, so I thought the terminator could help there. > > John A. Pat Lind has 5 for sale on eBay right now, bidding starting at $9.00. Here's the link (it may wrap): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5151952298& rd=1 I'm not affiliated with the seller, but I have bought items from him before and have been pleased with the transactions. Ashley From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Mon Dec 27 19:39:00 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:35 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 for Sale In-Reply-To: <00c101c4ec75$f1f9df70$0e406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <025a01c4ec7e$01a45d80$6e7ba8c0@p933> I'm not usually the paranoid type, but the seller has been a member for all of eight hours, has a baker's dozen high-priced items with "reasonable" starting and buy bids all ending within minutes of each other. . . As much as I'd like a Lisa 1, this doesn't feel right. Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Keys Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 4:41 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp Subject: Lisa 1 for Sale NOT MINE and I do not know the seller, buy price is $4000 http://page.auctions.shopping.yahoo.com/auction/88693646 From randy at s100-manuals.com Mon Dec 27 19:59:14 2004 From: randy at s100-manuals.com (Randy McLaughlin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 for Sale References: <025a01c4ec7e$01a45d80$6e7ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <001a01c4ec80$d7101160$553ed7d1@randylaptop> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik S. Klein" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 7:39 PM Subject: RE: Lisa 1 for Sale > I'm not usually the paranoid type, but the seller has been a member for > all of eight hours, has a baker's dozen high-priced items with > "reasonable" starting and buy bids all ending within minutes of each > other. . . > > As much as I'd like a Lisa 1, this doesn't feel right. > > Erik Klein > www.vintage-computer.com > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > The Vintage Computer Forum > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Keys > Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 4:41 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp > Subject: Lisa 1 for Sale > > NOT MINE and I do not know the seller, buy price is $4000 > http://page.auctions.shopping.yahoo.com/auction/88693646 That's what they make escrow accounts for. A small fee can guarantee satisfaction. Randy www.s100-manuals.com From cb at mythtech.net Mon Dec 27 20:21:16 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 for Sale Message-ID: >I'm not usually the paranoid type, but the seller has been a member for >all of eight hours, has a baker's dozen high-priced items with >"reasonable" starting and buy bids all ending within minutes of each >other. . . > >As much as I'd like a Lisa 1, this doesn't feel right. Uh, yeah, and none of his stuff has photos. You would think, if you plan to get 4 grand for a computer that clearly condition makes a difference in the price, you would post some photos. Ditto for some of his other items. -chris From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Dec 27 21:03:11 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: RL01/02 terminator sought. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Dec 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > > Here's the link (it may wrap): > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5151952298& > rd=1 Anybody want to share the bidding on this? I'd like to have one myself - I'd be willing to place the bid and, if successful, 'sell' the remaining units for 1/5 of the bid price... Lemme know... Cheers John From wacarder at usit.net Mon Dec 27 21:09:23 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: RL01/02 terminator sought. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Here's the link (it may wrap): > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5 > 151952298&rd=1 > > > Anybody want to share the bidding on this? I'd like to have > one myself > - I'd be willing to place the bid and, if successful, 'sell' the > remaining > units for 1/5 of the bid price... > > Lemme know... > Cheers > John I think this auction is "Dutch" bidding. You can buy one or you can buy any number of them. You don't have to buy all five. If you already knew this, just ignore me. :-) Ashley From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 27 22:40:51 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Trying to get running an LSI 11/23 Message-ID: I've been tinkering with this mutt LSI 11/23 system I've got and am trying to get it running. It's a custom-built system that has a mix of DEC and third-party boards. It's configured as follows--my apologies if I'm not conforming to standard DEC notation here [notes in brackets]: Cage 1 Slot 1: DEC M8186 | CAMINTONN 504 [1] Slot 2: Dataram Diceon [2] Slot 3: Data Systems Design A4432-4 | Grant Continuity [3] Slot 4: Emulex TU0110401 [4] Cage 2 Slot 1: Emulex Tu1110406 [5] Slot 2: Grant Continuity | Digital Pathways TCU-50DYR [6] Slot 3: MDB DLV-11J | DEC M9400 [7] Slot 4: Empty [8] Notes: 1. I believe the Camintonn card is memory 2. This has "RK:" written on the handle...an RK05 disk controller? 3. The Data Systems Design card has "DY:" written on the handle. 4. Tape controller; is connected by 25-conductor ribbon cable to adjoining Emulex card. 5. See note 4. 6. A real-time clock 7. The M9400 has "HB BOOT" written on the board. Is this the boot ROM card? 8. Does there need to be a bus terminator here? The DLV-11J is a 4-port serial card. Thanks to those who provided the documentation to get it wired. I think I have it correct. I've jumpered pin 3 to the RxD line and Pin 8 to the TxD line on my RS232 port. I've also jumpered pin 4 to ground as directed. The system powers up. There are +5V and +12V LEDs on the front of the panel that come on, and I've checked these lines at the power supply and they are good. One oddity: the terminal marked -12V is a perfect -0.00 on my volt meter. WTF? Anyway, how can I tell if anything is happening inside this thing? I can hit the BOOT switch and the RUN light goes on. There's a RUN switch with a momentary HALT position and an ENABLE position. I can hit the HALT switch and the RUN light goes off. I put the switch back in the ENABLE position and then hit the BOOT switch and the RUN light goes back on. I see nothing on my terminal (a PC running Procomm Plus in DOS so I have real serial ports instead of the bullshit that Win98 tries to pawn off as serial ports). I eventually want to boot RT-11 off floppies on this system. I guess I'll need a disk controller at some point. I'm completely lame. This is the first DEC system I've seriously tried to get running so I'm starting from -1 here. Any ideas? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Dec 27 22:46:04 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: RL01/02 terminator sought. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Dec 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: >>> Here's the link (it may wrap): >>> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5 >> 151952298&rd=1 >> >> >> Anybody want to share the bidding on this? I'd like to have >> one myself [snip] > I think this auction is "Dutch" bidding. You can buy one or you can buy any > number of them. You don't have to buy all five. If you already knew this, > just ignore me. :-) Well, the one that the link points to is, as far as I can tell, just a regular auction. However, the rest of them are listed later with Buy-It-Now prices of $10, and I have availed myself of one of those - If the original listing is in fact a Dutch Auction, I filed to extract that, even though I took oof my glasses and peered myopically at the screen. ;} Cheers John PS: Offer withdrawn, everyone's on their own... ;) > > Ashley > > > From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Dec 27 23:23:52 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 available in CA In-Reply-To: <41CF1821.7070208@gjcp.net> Message-ID: > Bah, why is all the good big iron always in the US? I can think of plenty of chunks of good big iron that popped up outside North America... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From tpeters at mixcom.com Mon Dec 27 23:25:52 2004 From: tpeters at mixcom.com (Tom Peters) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Trying to get running an LSI 11/23 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041227232007.0ace8e28@localhost> Q-Bus? Doesn't necessarily have a -12v. Mine didn't. The bootstrap/terminator card had bipolar PROMs on it with a little charge pump chip to supply the -12 for the PROMs. But the chip wouldn't supply -12v soon enough after power up, so the system would drop to an @ debugger prompt instead of booting. It's been about 20 years since I booted that machine and I can still tell you how to boot it from the @ prompt: 173000G I actually had to dig a 12v transformer out of my junkbox and wirewrap it to the backplane to solve that problem, along with a bridge and capacitor of course, to supply more timely -12v. Al, are you listening? I think it was Senzig that wired that charge pump chip to the board-- it was upside down, done dead bug style. Or maybe Dick Stollberg. At 08:40 PM 12/27/2004 -0800, you wrote: >I've been tinkering with this mutt LSI 11/23 system I've got and am trying >to get it running. It's a custom-built system that has a mix of DEC and >third-party boards. It's configured as follows--my apologies if I'm not >conforming to standard DEC notation here [notes in brackets]: > >Cage 1 >Slot 1: DEC M8186 | CAMINTONN 504 [1] >Slot 2: Dataram Diceon [2] >Slot 3: Data Systems Design A4432-4 | Grant Continuity [3] >Slot 4: Emulex TU0110401 [4] > >Cage 2 >Slot 1: Emulex Tu1110406 [5] >Slot 2: Grant Continuity | Digital Pathways TCU-50DYR [6] >Slot 3: MDB DLV-11J | DEC M9400 [7] >Slot 4: Empty [8] > >Notes: > >1. I believe the Camintonn card is memory >2. This has "RK:" written on the handle...an RK05 disk controller? >3. The Data Systems Design card has "DY:" written on the handle. >4. Tape controller; is connected by 25-conductor ribbon cable to adjoining >Emulex card. >5. See note 4. >6. A real-time clock >7. The M9400 has "HB BOOT" written on the board. Is this the boot ROM >card? >8. Does there need to be a bus terminator here? > >The DLV-11J is a 4-port serial card. Thanks to those who provided the >documentation to get it wired. I think I have it correct. I've jumpered >pin 3 to the RxD line and Pin 8 to the TxD line on my RS232 port. I've >also jumpered pin 4 to ground as directed. > >The system powers up. There are +5V and +12V LEDs on the front of the >panel that come on, and I've checked these lines at the power supply and >they are good. One oddity: the terminal marked -12V is a perfect -0.00 on >my volt meter. WTF? > >Anyway, how can I tell if anything is happening inside this thing? I can >hit the BOOT switch and the RUN light goes on. There's a RUN switch with >a momentary HALT position and an ENABLE position. I can hit the HALT >switch and the RUN light goes off. I put the switch back in the ENABLE >position and then hit the BOOT switch and the RUN light goes back on. > >I see nothing on my terminal (a PC running Procomm Plus in DOS so I have >real serial ports instead of the bullshit that Win98 tries to pawn off as >serial ports). > >I eventually want to boot RT-11 off floppies on this system. I guess I'll >need a disk controller at some point. > >I'm completely lame. This is the first DEC system I've seriously tried to >get running so I'm starting from -1 here. > >Any ideas? > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] [Philosophy] Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. - -Pablo Picasso --... ...-- -.. . -. ----. --.- --.- -... tpeters@nospam.mixcom.com (remove "nospam") N9QQB (amateur radio) "HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB ADDRESS http//www.mixweb.com/tpeters 43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square EN53wc WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, Cisco Certified CCNA From thompson at new.rr.com Mon Dec 27 23:39:12 2004 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: SCSI>DSSI (I owe someone a thank you) Message-ID: A few weeks ago someone (Sorry, I forgot who) pointed out a DSSI tape unit available on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5144248734 I bid on it, thinking that it would be phun to play with at a low price. I won, and the unit contains a couple of old DDS SCSI tapes but more importantly a CMD CDI-4000 SCSI/DSSI converter which appears from the SET HOST/DUP firmware to be identical to my other CDI-4000 which does either SCSI disks or tapes just fine. Woo hoo! Score. Thanks Paul From wacarder at usit.net Mon Dec 27 23:38:12 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: RL01/02 terminator sought. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >>> Here's the link (it may wrap): > >>> > >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5 > >> 151952298&rd=1 > >> Anybody want to share the bidding on this? I'd like to have > >> one myself > > [snip] > I think this auction is "Dutch" bidding. You can buy one or > you can buy any number of them. You don't have to buy all five. If you > already knew this, just ignore me. :-) > > Well, the one that the link points to is, as far as I can tell, just a > regular auction. However, the rest of them are listed later with > Buy-It-Now prices of $10, and I have availed myself of one of those - > > If the original listing is in fact a Dutch Auction, I filed to extract > that, even though I took oof my glasses and peered myopically at the > screen. ;} Yep, I see that he has some listed for Buy-It-Now at $10. Congrats on getting one of those. As for the Dutch Auction thing, I looked again and the reason I said it was a Dutch Auction was that it says $9.00 and "5 available", which means that the starting price for a single one is $9.00. When you bid on one of these, you enter your bid amount (per item) and the quantity you want to buy. So, you can buy one or more, up to the five that are available. I think that's what's called a Dutch auction, but I might be wrong. They were always confusing to me. Ashley (who also has to take of his glasses to read the fine print because he is too lazy to go get bifocals!) From wacarder at usit.net Mon Dec 27 23:48:51 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Trying to get running an LSI 11/23 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I've been tinkering with this mutt LSI 11/23 system I've got and am trying > to get it running. It's a custom-built system that has a mix of DEC and > third-party boards. It's configured as follows--my apologies if I'm not > conforming to standard DEC notation here [notes in brackets]: > > Cage 1 > Slot 1: DEC M8186 | CAMINTONN 504 [1] > Slot 2: Dataram Diceon [2] > Slot 3: Data Systems Design A4432-4 | Grant Continuity [3] > Slot 4: Emulex TU0110401 [4] > > Cage 2 > Slot 1: Emulex Tu1110406 [5] > Slot 2: Grant Continuity | Digital Pathways TCU-50DYR [6] > Slot 3: MDB DLV-11J | DEC M9400 [7] > Slot 4: Empty [8] > > Notes: > > 1. I believe the Camintonn card is memory > 2. This has "RK:" written on the handle...an RK05 disk controller? > 3. The Data Systems Design card has "DY:" written on the handle. DY probably refers to the RX02 floppy disk drive, since I think that's the two character code used to boot an RX02 on a unibus system M9312 bootstrap/console emulator. Perhaps a controller? Maybe you already have the disk controller you need. Does it have a connector to hook up a flat ribbon cable. I don't remember off the top of my head how many pins are on the cable, but I just hooked up one for an RX01 drive/controller a week or two ago. And if DY represents the RX02 drive, surely RK represents the RK05 drive as you are guessing. Ashley From pat at computer-refuge.org Mon Dec 27 23:58:39 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Trying to get running an LSI 11/23 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200412280058.39138.pat@computer-refuge.org> Ashley Carder declared on Tuesday 28 December 2004 12:48 am: > > 3. The Data Systems Design card has "DY:" written on the handle. > > DY probably refers to the RX02 floppy disk drive, since I think The DSD card is most likey the controller for a DSD 440 or 880 disk drive subsystem, and guessing from the "DY" label, more likely to be a 440 (only floppy drives, no fixed disk). It's not equivalent (hardware-wise) to a DEC RX02 (or RX01) controller, but it is probably software-equivalent. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From jgevaryahu at hotmail.com Tue Dec 28 00:58:59 2004 From: jgevaryahu at hotmail.com (Jonathan Gevaryahu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: COMPLETE Votrax PSS available on eBay Message-ID: A COMPLETE (including the manual, brochures, quick reference sheet, power supply, and parallel cable) Votrax Personal Sound System is available on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=162&item=5151487740&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW (I *WISH* I had all the peripherals that one comes with, with mine... It even includes the custom parallel Y cable, which I still need to find the wire mapping for and build... Speaking of which, I should get off my lazy rear and finish building the power supply for mine first so I can see if it even WORKS...) Jonathan Gevaryahu lord_nightmare_@t_users.sf.net jgevaryahu_@t_hotmail.com P.S. sorry for the multi-send, comcast's mailserver seems to have some sort of a rate limit against it by whatever isp classiccmp runs behind, so the original message will probably arrive after the auction is over. From tomj at wps.com Tue Dec 28 01:13:22 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <41D05F6B.1000300@internet1.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20041224091330.00793b30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <41CD365F.90300@gjcp.net> <41CDF6C5.4060100@internet1.net> <41CE9404.1070800@gjcp.net> <41D05F6B.1000300@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Dec 2004, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > The rambler, like most american, pre-1980, rear-drive > > cast-iron engines, has a steel belt > > You mean a chain? I've never seen a steel belt used. Belt, chain... a chain made of flat riveted links. From gsutton9503 at wavecable.com Tue Dec 28 01:20:46 2004 From: gsutton9503 at wavecable.com (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Celebrity Classics Sighting Message-ID: <41D1094E.5070204@wavecable.com> After hearing about the big earthquake and tsunamis that pounded the Far East, I found myself wondering about one of my all-time favorite sci-fi authors, Arthur C. Clarke. He lives in Sri Lanka, one of the areas that was hit hardest, so I was snooping around the Web to see if I could find any info as to whether or not he is okay. During my search, I came across this real cool pic of him working hard on 2010: Odyssey 2. The copyright date on the picture is 1984, so it is no surprise that a couple cool classics would be involved. Check it out... http://www.lsi.usp.br/~rbianchi/clarke/ACC.Kaypro.gif From news at computercollector.com Tue Dec 28 01:32:19 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Celebrity Classics Sighting In-Reply-To: <41D1094E.5070204@wavecable.com> Message-ID: <20041228073219.14808.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> He's okay. I found the answer here: http://www.clarkefoundation.org/ --- Scarletdown wrote: > After hearing about the big earthquake and tsunamis that pounded the Far > East, I found myself wondering about one of my all-time favorite sci-fi > authors, Arthur C. Clarke. He lives in Sri Lanka, one of the areas that > was hit hardest, so I was snooping around the Web to see if I could find > any info as to whether or not he is okay. During my search, I came > across this real cool pic of him working hard on 2010: Odyssey 2. The > copyright date on the picture is 1984, so it is no surprise that a > couple cool classics would be involved. Check it out... > > http://www.lsi.usp.br/~rbianchi/clarke/ACC.Kaypro.gif > > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news@computercollector.com 628 readers and counting! From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Dec 28 07:09:29 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 for Sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1104239369.4987.4.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-12-27 at 21:21 -0500, chris wrote: > >I'm not usually the paranoid type, but the seller has been a member for > >all of eight hours, has a baker's dozen high-priced items with > >"reasonable" starting and buy bids all ending within minutes of each > >other. . . > > > >As much as I'd like a Lisa 1, this doesn't feel right. > > Uh, yeah, and none of his stuff has photos. You would think, if you plan > to get 4 grand for a computer that clearly condition makes a difference > in the price, you would post some photos. Ditto for some of his other > items. > My immediate thought too. Plus they write like a 5 year old. Interesting how they say about the Twiggy drives being a bit flakey, as though there is a real machine behind all of this - it seems like an out of character comment with the rest of the post. I suppose it's the sort of thing I'd want to see personally before bidding (if I were the type to use ebay, which I'm not) and if that wasn't possible then just walk away. cheers J. From vcf at siconic.com Tue Dec 28 10:20:55 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Celebrity Classics Sighting In-Reply-To: <41D1094E.5070204@wavecable.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Dec 2004, Scarletdown wrote: > any info as to whether or not he is okay. During my search, I came > across this real cool pic of him working hard on 2010: Odyssey 2. The > copyright date on the picture is 1984, so it is no surprise that a > couple cool classics would be involved. Check it out... > > http://www.lsi.usp.br/~rbianchi/clarke/ACC.Kaypro.gif This reminds me. I went and saw "The Life Aquatic" the other day (I thought it was too long and kind of mediocre compared to Wes Anderson's previous two films) and in the movie there are two TRS-80 Model 4 computers in their on-ship lab. They're used to communicate two useless dolphins that tag along with the ship. I'm not sure if the movie was supposed to be set back in the 1980s or if their equipment was just really outdated. While I'm at it, I'm sure everyone who is in to vintage computer geek sightings in movies noticed the Apple ][ in "The Royal Tennenbaums". -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Dec 28 10:21:45 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Celebrity Classics Sighting In-Reply-To: <41D1094E.5070204@wavecable.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Dec 2004, Scarletdown wrote: > After hearing about the big earthquake and tsunamis that pounded the Far > East, I found myself wondering about one of my all-time favorite sci-fi > authors, Arthur C. Clarke. He lives in Sri Lanka, one of the areas that > was hit hardest, so I was snooping around the Web to see if I could find > any info as to whether or not he is okay. During my search, I came > across this real cool pic of him working hard on 2010: Odyssey 2. The > copyright date on the picture is 1984, so it is no surprise that a > couple cool classics would be involved. Check it out... > > http://www.lsi.usp.br/~rbianchi/clarke/ACC.Kaypro.gif The computer in the background is most likely a Televideo with dual built-in 5.25" disk drives. I don't know the model number but I've got one. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From allain at panix.com Tue Dec 28 10:42:39 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Not ten years old, but... References: <41D00D97.2060502@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <008a01c4ecfc$3f0c4920$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > experience of repairing Belinea DH-1764 monitors? All I can say is that here you can find 2~3 17" monitors a month for free, and at 2nd hand stores if you have to for ~$20. I wouldn't sweat tossing one, assuming you meant *VGA interface. John A. From marvin at rain.org Tue Dec 28 11:58:23 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Ethernet Cables? Message-ID: <41D19EBF.99F3040@rain.org> I found a couple of cables with the cable checker and have not been able to find out what these things are. Both ends are terminated with RJ-45 connectors, and the cable checker has pins 1 & 8 (blue/black) and 2 & 7 (yellow/orange) shorted together. They have a tag labled "IBM P/N 58X9806". One of them has a date of March 1990; anyone know what these things are used for? Thanks! From anheier at owt.com Tue Dec 28 12:59:59 2004 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm and Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: IBM 51XX floppy drives available Message-ID: Clean out again. I have some floppy drives from early IBM 5150/60s. These are tested good. I would like $15 each + shipping. Thanks Norm From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 28 12:37:13 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Trying to get running an LSI 11/23 In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Dec 27, 4 08:40:51 pm Message-ID: > > > I've been tinkering with this mutt LSI 11/23 system I've got and am trying > to get it running. It's a custom-built system that has a mix of DEC and > third-party boards. It's configured as follows--my apologies if I'm not > conforming to standard DEC notation here [notes in brackets]: > > Cage 1 > Slot 1: DEC M8186 | CAMINTONN 504 [1] > Slot 2: Dataram Diceon [2] > Slot 3: Data Systems Design A4432-4 | Grant Continuity [3] > Slot 4: Emulex TU0110401 [4] > > Cage 2 > Slot 1: Emulex Tu1110406 [5] > Slot 2: Grant Continuity | Digital Pathways TCU-50DYR [6] > Slot 3: MDB DLV-11J | DEC M9400 [7] > Slot 4: Empty [8] > > Notes: > > 1. I believe the Camintonn card is memory > 2. This has "RK:" written on the handle...an RK05 disk controller? Probably a disk controller for something else that emulates an RK05 to the software. What connectors are on this board? > 3. The Data Systems Design card has "DY:" written on the handle. DY: is the normal device name for an RX02 8" floppy. Does this card have a 50 pin header on it? If so, you might have got one of the cards that does the RX02 format on normal (SA800-series) drives, which is just what you want, I think. > The system powers up. There are +5V and +12V LEDs on the front of the > panel that come on, and I've checked these lines at the power supply and > they are good. One oddity: the terminal marked -12V is a perfect -0.00 on > my volt meter. WTF? Hmm... Without a -ve supply, the serial ports may well not work correctly. I would want to check this further (in particular, I'd want to check the supplies to the RS232 (or whatever) driver chips on the DLV11-J card. -tony From vcf at siconic.com Tue Dec 28 13:25:31 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Trying to get running an LSI 11/23 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Dec 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > I've been tinkering with this mutt LSI 11/23 system I've got and am trying > > to get it running. It's a custom-built system that has a mix of DEC and > > third-party boards. It's configured as follows--my apologies if I'm not > > conforming to standard DEC notation here [notes in brackets]: > > > > Cage 1 > > Slot 1: DEC M8186 | CAMINTONN 504 [1] > > Slot 2: Dataram Diceon [2] > > Slot 3: Data Systems Design A4432-4 | Grant Continuity [3] > > Slot 4: Emulex TU0110401 [4] > > > > Cage 2 > > Slot 1: Emulex Tu1110406 [5] > > Slot 2: Grant Continuity | Digital Pathways TCU-50DYR [6] > > Slot 3: MDB DLV-11J | DEC M9400 [7] > > Slot 4: Empty [8] > > > > Notes: > > > > 1. I believe the Camintonn card is memory > > 2. This has "RK:" written on the handle...an RK05 disk controller? > > Probably a disk controller for something else that emulates an RK05 to > the software. What connectors are on this board? It's got a single 50-pin (dual row header) connector. > > 3. The Data Systems Design card has "DY:" written on the handle. > > DY: is the normal device name for an RX02 8" floppy. Does this card have > a 50 pin header on it? If so, you might have got one of the cards that > does the RX02 format on normal (SA800-series) drives, which is just what you > want, I think. No, this has just a single 28-pin (dual row header) connector. I don't recall ever seeing a disk drive with a single 28-conductor ribbon cable. > > The system powers up. There are +5V and +12V LEDs on the front of the > > panel that come on, and I've checked these lines at the power supply and > > they are good. One oddity: the terminal marked -12V is a perfect -0.00 on > > my volt meter. WTF? > > Hmm... Without a -ve supply, the serial ports may well not work > correctly. I would want to check this further (in particular, I'd want to > check the supplies to the RS232 (or whatever) driver chips on the DLV11-J > card. I'll test some points on the card and see what I can find. Any particular place I should check? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Dec 28 17:21:32 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 for Sale In-Reply-To: <00c101c4ec75$f1f9df70$0e406b43@66067007> References: <00c101c4ec75$f1f9df70$0e406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <53610.127.0.0.1.1104276092.squirrel@127.0.0.1> > NOT MINE and I do not know the seller, buy price is $4000 > http://page.auctions.shopping.yahoo.com/auction/88693646 Okay, I've got it figured out now. The Yahoo seller has copied the listing from here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=80075&item=5149998223&rd=1 This eBay listing is a legitimate sale with one day to go and bidding already at 10K. The Yahoo listing is an obvious fraud. The eBay seller, vintagemicros, has a bevy of classic items up every week (I'm taking hundreds) which makes me very curious as to what he's all about. Does anyone know? If I were to guess he was a retailer or service type way-back-when and warehoused a bunch of stuff. . . While I'm asking, does anyone know who randomz3 is? He's got the deepest pockets I've ever seen on eBay! -- Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Tue Dec 28 16:00:28 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Back to computing topic ... Re: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <20041225095257.53375.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041225095257.53375.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1104271228.11207.7.camel@cobol> On Sat, 2004-12-25 at 01:52 -0800, Computer Collector Newsletter wrote: > Ummm, I started the off-topicness here, so I'll try to end it by putting > forward these questions: > - What is the most odd computer you've encountered in a car's drivetrain? Well, this isn't a car - but a good friend of mine had to sit on a heavily marketed new express train, "signatur", for hours because of "computer issues". Being the computer enthusiast he is, he went to look... What he saw was ...a Windows 95 "Illegal Instruction" dialog box.... The trains later needed repairs because the (what is the word... "aksel" .. cam shaft? The thing between the wheels :P) broke in two... I was not surprised... -- Tore S Bekkedal From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Dec 28 18:46:00 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay Message-ID: <027701c4ed3f$c5545f20$6e7ba8c0@p933> This one may be insane - or maybe it's me. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5150431291 An "original" Akalabeth (pre Ultima) game for the Apple ][ from 1980 - $1,225. A hefty price for a 5.25" floppy and 6 sheets of paper. . . -- Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From news at computercollector.com Tue Dec 28 19:10:05 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: <027701c4ed3f$c5545f20$6e7ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <20041229011005.26728.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> Crazy! Sometimes it seems like there is a hidden, darker side of our hobby -- the people who collect almost in secret and don't share it with anyone. I'm not condemning these people; I'm sure they appreciate their collections as much as anyone else. But it makes me wonder, what is the most that we've all knowingly over-paid for a collector's item in the hobby -- perhaps something that you really wanted and said "just this once"...? For example, I collect vintage handhelds, and last year I traded a Psion Series 7 (sometimes valued at $1,000) to acquire a Psion Organiser 1 (probably worth a few hundred dollars at most, but exceedingly hard to find one for sale and in good condition). --- "Erik S. Klein" wrote: > > This one may be insane - or maybe it's me. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5150431291 > > An "original" Akalabeth (pre Ultima) game for the Apple ][ from 1980 - > $1,225. > > A hefty price for a 5.25" floppy and 6 sheets of paper. . . > > -- > Erik Klein > www.vintage-computer.com > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > The Vintage Computer Forum > > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all -- W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news@computercollector.com -- 628 readers and counting! From rcini at optonline.net Tue Dec 28 19:28:42 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Paging Roger Merchberger Message-ID: <001d01c4ed45$bc273930$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> I hate to use the CCList for this and I appologize in advance, but I can't reach Roger at any of his 30below.com addresses. Every message I send regarding the CCArchive List bounces. At this point I can only lurk on that list because I can't post to it from my subscribed email address. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From menadeau at comcast.net Tue Dec 28 19:35:11 2004 From: menadeau at comcast.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay References: <20041229011005.26728.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005401c4ed46$a53eb3a0$0b01a8c0@Mike> > Crazy! > > Sometimes it seems like there is a hidden, darker side of our hobby -- the > people who collect almost in secret and don't share it with anyone. I'm not > condemning these people; I'm sure they appreciate their collections as much as > anyone else. > Any established collector community is like an iceberg. Most of it is out of sight below the surface. My father has been active in the antique car community for years, and he made his most interesting contacts through his job at a car dealership. There, he met a number of apparently wealthy people with amazing collections who rarely or never participated in the community. These people were definitely secretive and tended to be a bit introverted and perhaps paranoid about too many people finding out about what they had. Most collectors hear about them after they die and their collections become available. From ss at allegro.com Tue Dec 28 19:54:38 2004 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Available: old Vectra / MS-DOS 3.1 / QuietJet / misc manuals Message-ID: <41D19DDE.21704.6D0BA37@localhost> Hi, I received the following from a friend in France. If anyone is interested in it, email me and I'll send you his email address. ------- Forwarded message follows ------- ... While browsing my dad's attic a few days back, I stumbled on old Vectra and MS-DOS manuals, ca. '86. There is the complete documentation set that was sent with 286-powered machines, complete with MS-DOS 3.1 documentation, plus a QuietJet user manual, and a few other items. If you are interested, I can e-mail you a complete list. The stuff is yours for the price of shipping. If you are willing to pass this on to another possibly interested person, that's OK. Otherwise, it will all go to my dad's trash can. I've asked my dad to wait a few days [before trasking the stuff]. ... 91240 SAINT-MICHEL-SUR-ORGE FRANCE ------- End of forwarded message ------- thanks, Stan From vcf at siconic.com Tue Dec 28 20:19:10 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: HP-41 Synthetic Programming Made Easy Message-ID: I just found a nice book that I'm sure a few people (Tony in the least) would find interesting (if they don't already have a copy). It's called "HP-41 Synthetic Programming Made Easy" by Keith Jarett. It was published in 1982 by Synthetix. There's no ISBN but it does have a Library of Congress Catalog Card Number of 82-62786. It's 192 pages and seems very in-depth. No results turned up in online used book stores but several web references result from a search, including one here in the Museum of HP Calculators: http://www.hpmuseum.org/prog/synth41.htm -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From fernande at internet1.net Tue Dec 28 21:03:08 2004 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Back to computing topic ... Re: OT: timing belts In-Reply-To: <1104271228.11207.7.camel@cobol> References: <20041225095257.53375.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> <1104271228.11207.7.camel@cobol> Message-ID: <41D21E6C.6050402@internet1.net> Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > The trains later needed repairs because the (what is the word... > "aksel" .. cam shaft? The thing between the wheels :P) broke in two... I > was not surprised... Probably not a camshaft, as that would transder circular motion to linear. I believe "axle" would be the word that your looking for. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From vcf at siconic.com Tue Dec 28 21:19:24 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: <027701c4ed3f$c5545f20$6e7ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Dec 2004, Erik S. Klein wrote: > This one may be insane - or maybe it's me. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5150431291 > > An "original" Akalabeth (pre Ultima) game for the Apple ][ from 1980 - > $1,225. > > A hefty price for a 5.25" floppy and 6 sheets of paper. . . Wow, and just when you thought the true depths of madness had been reached. Vintage software is the next frontier upon which siege will be lain with exploitation to follow but I just can't see this ever getting a ROI worth the $1,225 price tag being offered here. If it's not a hoax then surely it should be. While I don't doubt the bits are still on the disk, considering the price and that this is a 20+ year old diskette, I'd want to be damn sure before I shelled out $1K+ for a piece of plastic and some paper. Jeez. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jrasite at eoni.com Tue Dec 28 21:25:41 2004 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Ethernet Cables? In-Reply-To: <41D19EBF.99F3040@rain.org> Message-ID: <518E750F-5949-11D9-9B45-000502453125@eoni.com> Console cable for a router? Jim On Tuesday, December 28, 2004, at 09:58 AM, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > I found a couple of cables with the cable checker and have not been > able > to find out what these things are. Both ends are terminated with RJ-45 > connectors, and the cable checker has pins 1 & 8 (blue/black) and 2 & 7 > (yellow/orange) shorted together. They have a tag labled "IBM P/N > 58X9806". One of them has a date of March 1990; anyone know what these > things are used for? Thanks! > > The first lemming to lead his peers off the cliff is a bold and decisive leader. From tomj at wps.com Tue Dec 28 21:43:08 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: <027701c4ed3f$c5545f20$6e7ba8c0@p933> References: <027701c4ed3f$c5545f20$6e7ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Dec 2004, Erik S. Klein wrote: > This one may be insane - or maybe it's me. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5150431291 > > An "original" Akalabeth (pre Ultima) game for the Apple ][ from 1980 - > $1,225. > > A hefty price for a 5.25" floppy and 6 sheets of paper. . . No kidding! This is like the Nassau solder wierdness on ePay. search for "nassau solder". Apparently it was a captive manu of solder (yes, the Sn/Pb stuff) owned by Western Electric (one can imagine they used enough of the stuff to own a factory). It still doesn't explain the outrageous prices people pay for the stuff. The choices are: a. People are incredibly stupid, and believe anything they are told. b. There is Something We Don't Know. c. Both. d. Neither. e. WTF, Over? f. Did someone say lunch? From tomj at wps.com Tue Dec 28 21:48:53 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > This one may be insane - or maybe it's me. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5150431291 > Wow, and just when you thought the true depths of madness had been > reached. Vintage software is the next frontier upon which siege will be > lain with exploitation to follow but I just can't see this ever getting a > ROI worth the $1,225 price tag being offered here. If it's not a hoax > then surely it should be. I'm sure it's abundantly obvious, but counterfeiting items like that is technically trivial. Probably at least *some* of those extreme collectors know *precisely* what the package looks like; you'd have to use the right old copier, etc. You might even put the right files on a vintage diskette; but if that wasn't possible, you could use a strategically bad diskette and say "gee sorry, it *is* 25 years old..." I'm not suggesting this be done, I don't work that way, and I think it would be disgusting behavior -- but it also seems utterly inevitable. With that kind of money to be had for 10 cents worth of vintage materials the temptation has GOT to be there! At least hardware you can stub your toe on. From river at zip.com.au Tue Dec 28 11:09:24 2004 From: river at zip.com.au (river) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Intel MDS Series-4 Help Message-ID: <012701c4ecff$fe119fc0$2229083d@river> Hi, I've got a RAM march error upon power up. Does anyone have a circuit diagram or information that can help me pin-point the bad DRAM chip so I can get this old baby working again? seeyuzz river From cheri-post at web.de Wed Dec 29 01:56:30 2004 From: cheri-post at web.de (Pierre Gebhardt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Problems with my PDP 11/24 (was:Question about memory boards used on VAX 11/7xx) Message-ID: <622266545@web.de> > > That's the info I found on the net from a 11/750 FAQ: > > > > "National Semiconductor Memory Systems: 1Mb memory boards. These > > boards have PWB 551109464-002 B > > PWA 980109464-001 D > > etched on them. They have a push-button switch for disabling the > > board, and a spare memory chip in a socket on the board. Board has > > green and yellow LEDS, which should normally both be on. Disabling > > the board causes the yellow LED to go out, and the red LED on the > > L0016 to come on, indicating bad memory configuration." > > Those almost certainly aren't UNIBUS memory boards, but are > 11/750-specific boards. Thanks for this information, Patrick. I guess, I'll have to wait for such a VAX, I haven't one yet ;-) Currently, I'm setting up my 11/24. It comes with an RL02. Yesterday, I worked on it a bit, checking grant and bus continuity, everything's fine now. I found out the bootstrap adress for the RL02 (BOOT Proms are located on the Unibus Map Module (KT24)) and gave it a try, with the RL02 disconnected. No problems with typing in digits with the VT420 terminal. This morning, the 11/24 apparently don't accepts commands from the terminal, why ? On the CPU-Board, the CLK-LED is always illuminated, even when I press the Boot-button. Then, the RUN - und the PROC-LED turns on for a moment, that's all. Yesterday, when I typed in the bootstrap adress of the diagnostics-PROM, the 1 - LED turned on. The 0 - LED always remained off. Today, no typing in is possible. When I press the boot-button, I obtain something like @000002 I need to know the meanings of the LEDs on the CPU-Board. Can anyone give me some help ? In the Maintenance-Card, the functions of the LEDs are described but it doesn't appear to be on the net somewhere... Thanks alot in advance ! Pierre __________________________________________________________ Mit WEB.DE FreePhone mit hoechster Qualitaet ab 0 Ct./Min. weltweit telefonieren! http://freephone.web.de/?mc=021201 From maillist at komoko.com Wed Dec 29 01:58:45 2004 From: maillist at komoko.com (maillist@komoko.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: MESSAGE NOT DELIVERED: Problems with my PDP 11/24 (was:Question about memory boards used on VAX 11/7xx) In-Reply-To: <622266545@web.de> References: <622266545@web.de> Message-ID: <200412290758.iBT7wjnw023271@host.cdnsites.com> Your message could not be delivered. The User is out of space. Please try to send your message again at a later time. From quapla at xs4all.nl Wed Dec 29 02:27:10 2004 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (quapla@xs4all.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 for Sale In-Reply-To: <53610.127.0.0.1.1104276092.squirrel@127.0.0.1> References: <00c101c4ec75$f1f9df70$0e406b43@66067007> <53610.127.0.0.1.1104276092.squirrel@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <25486.192.18.240.11.1104308830.squirrel@192.18.240.11> snip snip . . > > While I'm asking, does anyone know who randomz3 is? He's got the deepest > pockets I've ever seen on eBay! Maybe a bored lottery winner not knowing what to do with his money??? Ed G From wayne.smith at charter.net Wed Dec 29 03:00:31 2004 From: wayne.smith at charter.net (Wayne Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 for Sale In-Reply-To: <200412281801.iBSI0AsY000363@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <001001c4ed84$ddfdf2d0$04000100@Wayne> > Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 13:09:29 +0000 > From: Jules Richardson > Subject: RE: Lisa 1 for Sale > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <1104239369.4987.4.camel@weka.localdomain> > Content-Type: text/plain > > On Mon, 2004-12-27 at 21:21 -0500, chris wrote: > > >I'm not usually the paranoid type, but the seller has been > a member > > >for all of eight hours, has a baker's dozen high-priced items with > > >"reasonable" starting and buy bids all ending within > minutes of each > > >other. . . > > > > > >As much as I'd like a Lisa 1, this doesn't feel right. > > > > Uh, yeah, and none of his stuff has photos. You would think, if you > > plan > > to get 4 grand for a computer that clearly condition makes > a difference > > in the price, you would post some photos. Ditto for some of > his other > > items. > > > > My immediate thought too. Plus they write like a 5 year old. > Interesting how they say about the Twiggy drives being a bit > flakey, as though there is a real machine behind all of this > - it seems like an out of character comment with the rest of the post. > > I suppose it's the sort of thing I'd want to see personally > before bidding (if I were the type to use ebay, which I'm > not) and if that wasn't possible then just walk away. > > cheers > > J. The description appears to be copied from the Lisa 1 currently up on Ebay with a bid of $10K - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=80075&item=514999 8223&rd=1 - suggesting that it's probably fraudulent. From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Dec 29 05:45:47 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: 12th edition of the Secret Weapons of Commodore Message-ID: <200412291145.DAA15948@floodgap.com> After an unacceptably long hiatus and several days of round the clock work, the 12th edition of Secret Weapons of Commodore has been released. Secret Weapons of Commodore is a repository site for rare, unusual, prototype or vapourware Commodore computers and peripherals, focusing primarily on 8-bit systems, with photographs and contemporary literature references where possible. The URL is http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/ckb/secret/ New entries: * the Drean Argentine remixes (thanks Pablo Trincavelli), with pictures; * the Norwegian 3032 and 128DCR (thanks Asbjorn Djupdal), with pictures; * the Swedish PET 200 (thanks Anders Gronberg), with pictures; * the Commodore "MIDI Keyboard" (thanks Holger Karlson); * the 1582 (thanks James Crook); New pictures: * complete pictures of the Ultimax (from my own unit), as well as additional pictures from Dan Benson; * additional pictures of the V364 (thanks Dan Benson); * additional pictures of the 232 (Dan again); * additional pictures and commercial blurbs of the VIC-1001 (Dan encore); * complete (and real this time!) pictures of the Lorraine boards, taken at VCF (in Dale Luck's possession); * complete pictures of the Swedish 3032 (thanks Peter Karlsson); * keyboard pictures of the Swedish 128DCR (Peter again); * the awful Swedish localization stickers (Peter encore); * internals of the Sound Sampler (thanks John Selck); * a screenshot of the 65 Burn-In board at work and an updated screenshot of the 65 intro screen (thanks Moise Sunda); * better picture of the 65 RAM expansion (thanks Riccardo Rubini); * picture of the C116 box (yours truly); * press clipping on the Music Maker (thanks Todd Elliott); Updates: * significant rewrites for clarity/accuracy of the Amiga early days; * updated current history of the Amiga and Commodore brand names, along with the C-One and DTV (thanks Jeri Ellsworth); * the TV Game series' technical data as evidenced by the Coleco Telstar; * notes on the C65 board, firmware and chip revisions (thanks Anders Carlsson, Riccardo); * another possible HHC-4 sighting in the Toshiba IHC-8000 (thanks Scott Jones); * information on the disk version of the SFX software; * the Music Maker seems to be an Incredible Music Keyboard clone (thanks Todd); * a little more history on the SX-500 (thanks Dale); * early specifications of the Lorraine; * the 364 does not have the same vocabulary as the Magic Voice (thanks Bo Zimmerman); * notes on the Ultimax's expansion port and rewrites for clarity; * Michael Tomczyk seems to call the 364 the "MAX"; * where the Sound Sampler's creator is now; * custodial updates to the 900, Golden 64, and Colour PET/TOI pages Please continue to submit any updates, sightings and corrections. The URL, as above, is http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/ckb/secret/ -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- I'm in Pittsburgh. Why am I here? -- Harold Urey, Nobel laureate ----------- From zbangash at yahoo.com Fri Dec 24 09:02:58 2004 From: zbangash at yahoo.com (Zaffer Bangash) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Teletype Model 43 Mint, Brand New, Still sealed Message-ID: <20041224150258.24953.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> Hello. I have a couple of still sealed Teletype Model 43s. The units have never been opened, and they come in a box, which is wrapped in a foil with dissicant inside. I also have one open unit. I was wondering if you would be interested in the item or can tell me what is the value of it. thanks Zafar Bangash. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From listmailgoeshere at gmail.com Fri Dec 24 13:19:38 2004 From: listmailgoeshere at gmail.com (listmailgoeshere@gmail.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: DECwriters (was Re: Auction Finds) In-Reply-To: <16833.42196.287121.629019@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <41BBF584.9040906@theriver.com> <51749.64.139.41.130.1103159351.squirrel@64.139.41.130> <16833.42196.287121.629019@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 10:08:04 -0500, Paul Koning wrote: > >>>>> "Eric" == Eric Smith writes: > > Eric> Does anyone have any spare keyswitches (or complete keyboard > Eric> assemblies) for the DECwriter II, III, or older DEC keyboards? > Eric> I need a replacement keyswitch for an LK40 keyboard for a GT40 > Eric> terminal, and I think a DECwriter keyswitch may be the same (or > Eric> at least interchangeable). But I don't want to remove one from > Eric> an otherwise good DECwriter. > > The GT40 keyboards I remember have the same awful keyswitches that > were used (and cursed) on the LA30 -- and replaced in the LA36 and > VT50 by a new design that worked far better. While we're on the subject of DECwriters, I just last week rescued a DECwriter IV (LA38) from a dumpster. It had been being rained on, so for the moment it's just sitting in my nice warm house to get it thoroughly dried out before I try and run it. Any hints for the best way to go about powering the thing back up without destroying it? Does anyone have any documentation? vt100.net/manx has the field maintenance print sets, but nothing about how to actually use the thing. It's missing two keys (the two between the spacebar and the LINE FEED key on the far right of that row). If anyone can tell me which keys these are I'd be grateful; spare keycaps would be even better! I intend to go and have another dig through the dumpster soon to see if these were dislodged when it was thrown in there. Ed. From ekklein at pacbell.net Fri Dec 24 16:31:12 2004 From: ekklein at pacbell.net (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 available in CA Message-ID: <018d01c4ea08$46125120$6e7ba8c0@p933> I got this via email late yesterday: "Would you know of anyone that would be interested in a DEC PDP11-34? We just got one in stock and I can provide you with pix and a list of the boards inside if you need." So, if you might be interested in the 11/34 please let me know and I'll put you in touch with the seller. Email me webmasterNOSPAM@vintage-computer.com Happy Holidays! Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From ampartes at megsinet.net Sat Dec 25 15:32:05 2004 From: ampartes at megsinet.net (TLK) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:36 2005 Subject: Kontron LA 32A Message-ID: <41CDDC55.670B@megsinet.net> I just saw your request for software. I can make copies of the software. From pwearly4u at yahoo.com Sat Dec 25 18:56:46 2004 From: pwearly4u at yahoo.com (pw early) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: SGI stuff Message-ID: <20041226005646.36889.qmail@web50406.mail.yahoo.com> Mark Grieshaber, I know it's been a year since you posted a message about getting rid of some of your SGI stuff. I thought I'd take an extreme chance and see if you had anything left. Especially for the P.I. series or Indigo2 series... Thanks for your time, Paul Early __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From listmailgoeshere at gmail.com Sun Dec 26 12:05:45 2004 From: listmailgoeshere at gmail.com (listmailgoeshere@gmail.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Intel Pentium Overdrive EBOXP0DP5V83 Chips] (UK) In-Reply-To: <1103808413.30934.17.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1103808413.30934.17.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:26:53 +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > > Chap has 11 of these critters still sealed in boxes - they take a 486 up > to an 83MHz Pentium apparently. > > I suspect they're no use to anyone these days :) I can get them to > Bletchley; can always park them in a corner for a while if needs be! > > They're off to the tip otherwise... Jules, I think you should go for it! They'll come within the 15 year rule eventually, and the 486 -> Pentium Overdrive chips have always been a bit hard to find IME. I could be tempted by one or two in a while when I've pulled a couple of my higher-end 486 motherboard out to play with :) Regards, Ed. From hrosen33 at highstream.net Sun Dec 26 13:54:06 2004 From: hrosen33 at highstream.net (Howard Rosen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: NEC Computers Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20041226143524.00a8a590@pop3.highstream.net> I searched for "PC-8001A" and came across a note by you at: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2002-October/004206.html I have the following items that I would like to sell - both PC-8001A and PC-8801A QTY ITEM COMMENTS 1 PC-8012A I/O UNIT 1 PC-8031A MINI DISK UNIT 1 PC-8001A MICRO COMPUTER 3 JB-1201A 1 has been lightly used and 2 are in factory sealed boxes - GREEN MONITOR 1 JB-1205A AMBER MONITOR 1 JB-1260M (A) 2 PC-8800 bundled s/w 2 JC-1460DA COLOR MONITOR 1 PC-8831A MINI DISK 5-1/4 inch 2 PC-8881A DISK UNIT 8 inch 2 PC-8801A MICRO COMPUTER - 1 has DOS 1.25 Board 1 PC-8023A-01 PRINTER 2 PC-8894A PRINTER CABLE 4 PC-8295A-01 RS232C CABLE I live in Philadelphia, PA and would appreciate hearing from you if I could be of service to anyone interested in these items. Howard Rosen From lord_nightmare at users.sourceforge.net Mon Dec 27 03:18:05 2004 From: lord_nightmare at users.sourceforge.net (Jonathan Gevaryahu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: COMPLETE Votrax PSS available on eBay Message-ID: <41CFD34D.8070602@users.sf.net> A COMPLETE (including the manual, brochures, quick reference sheet, power supply, and parallel cable) Votrax Personal Sound System is available on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=162&item=5151487740&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW (I *WISH* I had all the peripherals that one comes with, with mine... It even includes the custom parallel Y cable, which I still need to find the wire mapping for and build... Speaking of which, I should get off my lazy rear and finish building the power supply for mine first so I can see if it even WORKS...) Jonathan Gevaryahu lord_nightmare_@t_users.sf.net jgevaryahu_@t_hotmail.com From dennys_xor at hotmail.com Mon Dec 27 15:01:49 2004 From: dennys_xor at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?B?RGVubnlzIE9yZG/xZXogUGFsb21pbm8=?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: RF35/RZ35 HDD Message-ID: Hi I am very interested in your 2 digital digital RF35/RZ35 HDD I live in Peru ,Latin America and I want to know some details about your disks, cause ii have a Micro Vax II ,and If you want to sell them I have the money and I have the Vax Please Answer this as soon as You can , I want the specifications and the approximate price Thanx Greetings form Peru _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en l?nea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.latam.msn.com/ From cbajpai at comcast.netmail.net Mon Dec 27 18:57:02 2004 From: cbajpai at comcast.netmail.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 for Sale In-Reply-To: <00c101c4ec75$f1f9df70$0e406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <200412280117.iBS1Hajd005154@huey.classiccmp.org> I really wish I had a deep pocketbook...In the past I've seen Lisa-1's go for $15K, so this is a bargain (if it was real). I've heard there are fewer than 50 Lisa-1s in existence. But I can't believe it's more valuable than a Apple-1 though. Now I smell something fishy here....there is a Lisa-1 on auction on ebay by a well known vintage PC seller: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5149998223&ssPageNam e=STRK:MEWA:IT Isn't that strange a Lisa-1 would appear on Yahoo at the same time, with a unknown seller (and no rating) and even better uses the same exact wording as the Ebay auction? Beware! -Chandra Lisa Enthusiast -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Keys Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 7:41 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp Subject: Lisa 1 for Sale NOT MINE and I do not know the seller, buy price is $4000 http://page.auctions.shopping.yahoo.com/auction/88693646 From joesag at prodigy.net Mon Dec 27 20:56:21 2004 From: joesag at prodigy.net (Joe Sagarese) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: pc-2 plotter pens Message-ID: <001701c4ec88$d10b42a0$7466fa04@joesag> Hi, I know you were looking for these over a year ago. I have a source. Do you have a source for the small gear thats on the motor piston of a pc-2 printer ? I need about a dozen...Joe From mokuba at gmail.com Mon Dec 27 22:34:29 2004 From: mokuba at gmail.com (Gary G. Sparkes Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: HP 5036a manuals Message-ID: <41d0e258.4bc21f01.0562.061c@smtp.gmail.com> If you still have the manuals for loan, I'd be more then happy to scan them in the mornings before school, I'd love to get copies of them and to do that I'd be more then willing to scan them up. Comp teacher has a scanner I can use in the mornings, so that's good! Heh, if you can, I'd love to, just laid hands on a trainer that seems fully functional, and I'm looking about for manuals, hard to come by on the 'net though ! :/ From nick at computer-history.org Tue Dec 28 14:17:34 2004 From: nick at computer-history.org (computer-history.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 for Sale References: <00c101c4ec75$f1f9df70$0e406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <012001c4ed1a$44d66390$7a00a8c0@Millers> Stay away from this one. The description was lifted directly from the Lisa 1 that is currently up for auction on eBay. The Lisa 1 for sale on eBay is up to $10,000 with just over a day left. Nick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keys" To: "cctalk@classiccmp" Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 6:41 PM Subject: Lisa 1 for Sale > NOT MINE and I do not know the seller, buy price is $4000 > http://page.auctions.shopping.yahoo.com/auction/88693646 > > From nick at computer-history.org Tue Dec 28 18:41:16 2004 From: nick at computer-history.org (computer-history.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 for Sale References: <00c101c4ec75$f1f9df70$0e406b43@66067007> <53610.127.0.0.1.1104276092.squirrel@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <021601c4ed3f$1b6c6e30$7a00a8c0@Millers> randomz3 is the CFO of a family run real estate company specializing in office, warehouse and retail properties. He has purchased several items off me and has always paid promptly. I'd rather not pass on his name but if you must know it eBay has a simple method of requesting contact information. I did not think to ask him if he was planning a museum, hording or trying to corner the market. Nick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik Klein" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 5:21 PM Subject: Re: Lisa 1 for Sale >> NOT MINE and I do not know the seller, buy price is $4000 >> http://page.auctions.shopping.yahoo.com/auction/88693646 > > Okay, I've got it figured out now. > > The Yahoo seller has copied the listing from here: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=80075&item=5149998223&rd=1 > > This eBay listing is a legitimate sale with one day to go and bidding > already at 10K. > > The Yahoo listing is an obvious fraud. > > The eBay seller, vintagemicros, has a bevy of classic items up every week > (I'm taking hundreds) which makes me very curious as to what he's all > about. Does anyone know? If I were to guess he was a retailer or service > type way-back-when and warehoused a bunch of stuff. . . > > While I'm asking, does anyone know who randomz3 is? He's got the deepest > pockets I've ever seen on eBay! > > -- > Erik Klein > www.vintage-computer.com > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > The Vintage Computer Forum > > From cbajpai at comcast.netmail.net Tue Dec 28 21:36:48 2004 From: cbajpai at comcast.netmail.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200412290359.iBT3xasV002903@huey.classiccmp.org> You know the next thing that will happen is forgeries...I'm sure it wouldn't take much to forge plastic and paper...hell if they can do it with paintings, software can't be very difficult. -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 10:19 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Speaking of eBay On Tue, 28 Dec 2004, Erik S. Klein wrote: > This one may be insane - or maybe it's me. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5150431291 > > An "original" Akalabeth (pre Ultima) game for the Apple ][ from 1980 - > $1,225. > > A hefty price for a 5.25" floppy and 6 sheets of paper. . . Wow, and just when you thought the true depths of madness had been reached. Vintage software is the next frontier upon which siege will be lain with exploitation to follow but I just can't see this ever getting a ROI worth the $1,225 price tag being offered here. If it's not a hoax then surely it should be. While I don't doubt the bits are still on the disk, considering the price and that this is a 20+ year old diskette, I'd want to be damn sure before I shelled out $1K+ for a piece of plastic and some paper. Jeez. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rich_bramante at yahoo.com Wed Dec 29 08:48:33 2004 From: rich_bramante at yahoo.com (Rich Bramante) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: <200412290359.iBT3xasV002903@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20041229144834.13386.qmail@web53206.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chandra Bajpai wrote: > You know the next thing that will happen is forgeries...I'm sure it wouldn't > take much to forge plastic and paper...hell if they can do it with > paintings, software can't be very difficult. > > -Chandra This is already happening. I was made aware of several cases of this being reported in the community that specializes in collecting old Sierra On-Line software. rich > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 10:19 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Speaking of eBay > > On Tue, 28 Dec 2004, Erik S. Klein wrote: > > > This one may be insane - or maybe it's me. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5150431291 > > > > An "original" Akalabeth (pre Ultima) game for the Apple ][ from 1980 - > > $1,225. > > > > A hefty price for a 5.25" floppy and 6 sheets of paper. . . > > Wow, and just when you thought the true depths of madness had been > reached. Vintage software is the next frontier upon which siege will be > lain with exploitation to follow but I just can't see this ever getting a > ROI worth the $1,225 price tag being offered here. If it's not a hoax > then surely it should be. > > While I don't doubt the bits are still on the disk, considering the price > and that this is a 20+ year old diskette, I'd want to be damn sure before > I shelled out $1K+ for a piece of plastic and some paper. > > Jeez. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers > ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org > ] > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Send holiday email and support a worthy cause. Do good. http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com From mross666 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 29 09:04:57 2004 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Couple of pdp-11 items wanted... Message-ID: Does anyone by any chance have a good 11/70 backplane that's surplus to requirements? I've a couple of QED-95 boardsets(1), but no 11/70 this side of the Atlantic to put them in... :-( (I plan to build a tabletop 'ultimate 11/70' with the QED-95, modern switcher power supply, Emulex SCSI, and internal SCSI disk... got all the bits except the backplane!) Alternatively, and even less likely, does anyone have a spare CIM-60 card? This is the QED front panel interface card that's required to use the QED-95 with an 11/35 chassis... Replies via email please, the list digests I receive are patchy at present - they arrive all in a lump every ten days or so, with nothing in between! (1) purchased on epay - latest one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5149783592 Discussion point: this seller has had quite a few QED-95s recently, and also quite a few Setasi PEP70/Hypercache sets. The PEP70/Hypercache consistently goes for much more money than the QED-95 - up to $300-400 for a set, I've seen. Anyone care to speculate why? Thanks Mike http://www.corestore.org From bqt at Update.UU.SE Wed Dec 29 09:05:57 2004 From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Problems with my PDP 11/24 (was:Question about memory boards used n VAX 11/7xx) In-Reply-To: <200412291514.iBTFDZsi006241@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200412291514.iBTFDZsi006241@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 "Pierre Gebhardt" wrote: >>> That's the info I found on the net from a 11/750 FAQ: >>> >>> "National Semiconductor Memory Systems: 1Mb memory boards. These >>> boards have PWB 551109464-002 B >>> PWA 980109464-001 D >>> etched on them. They have a push-button switch for disabling the >>> board, and a spare memory chip in a socket on the board. Board has >>> green and yellow LEDS, which should normally both be on. Disabling >>> the board causes the yellow LED to go out, and the red LED on the >>> L0016 to come on, indicating bad memory configuration." >> >> Those almost certainly aren't UNIBUS memory boards, but are >> 11/750-specific boards. > > Thanks for this information, Patrick. > I guess, I'll have to wait for such a VAX, I haven't one yet ;-) Actually, the memory system in a VAX-11/750 are specific to that model. It's not compatible with the VAX-11/780, nor the 11/730. However, the memory backplane is compatible with the MK11 memory box for the PDP-11/70. Unfortunately, the MK11 controller only deals with 256Kb memory boards. So if you'd like to use these 1 Mb memory boards in an 11/70, you need a small hardware hack, and a small software hack. The hardware hack is to tie four board select lines from the backplane into to address lines for the memory card, and the software hack is to reset all the ECC bits in the high 768K of each card, since the MK11 controller only clears ECC on the low 256K. I have done both of these things on an 11/70 here in the past. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From allain at panix.com Wed Dec 29 09:29:51 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Ethernet Cables? References: <518E750F-5949-11D9-9B45-000502453125@eoni.com> Message-ID: <001801c4edbb$3de4f960$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> RJ45 type cables also factored in with IBM's Token Ring connectivity. There were adaptors, probably Baluns to go from the largish connectors to these. This _could_ be one. John A. From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Wed Dec 29 09:32:11 2004 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > A hefty price for a 5.25" floppy and 6 sheets of paper. . . > > No kidding! > > This is like the Nassau solder wierdness on ePay. search for > "nassau solder". Apparently it was a captive manu of solder > (yes, the Sn/Pb stuff) owned by Western Electric (one can > imagine they used enough of the stuff to own a factory). It still > doesn't explain the outrageous prices people pay for the stuff. > > The choices are: > > a. People are incredibly stupid, and believe anything they are told. > b. There is Something We Don't Know. > c. Both. > d. Neither. > e. WTF, Over? > f. Did someone say lunch? > I don't recall where I read it now... (somewhere in a newsgroup) but it seems to be fueled by Japanese vintage (read tube) stereo collectors. The original service and repair manuals spec that particular kind of solder and there seems to be a belief that the modern equivalent is not mixed (alloyed, whatever) correctly. So if you pay big bucks for a tube stereo but it is repaired with the "wrong" solder, you still don't get the "magic" sound you're looking for, hence you'll pay several hundred bucks for an old spool of solder. Apparently, they'll even have working units that appear to contain "incorrect" solder disassembled all of the "bad" solder removed and then reassembled with the "right" stuff. From allain at panix.com Wed Dec 29 09:43:31 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay References: <027701c4ed3f$c5545f20$6e7ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <004701c4edbd$26ceb7a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > a. People are incredibly stupid, and believe anything they are told. > b. There is Something We Don't Know. b: Good presentation. ''500 Bucks? Let me dredge up mine from the barn so I can get me some!'' It's probably no accident that at several places of work where I've been there was a strong bias against having Engineers write the user documentation. _Some_ of the people on this list show why such a prejudice is right (BTW, not necessarily you), even though there is at least 10% of engineers who are as equally brilliant at writing as at Tech. Not me.... slightly less than literate, but... John A. writing awards: 1969 (history),1975 (technology) From allain at panix.com Wed Dec 29 09:49:30 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 for Sale References: <200412280117.iBS1Hajd005154@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <005501c4edbd$fc9f0ba0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Now I smell something fishy here... Thought I'd mention I once gave a piece of Telco electronics to a co-worker where I used to be to sell how he wanted. What he did was look it up on eBay and stole wholesale the -description-, photos and text and used that to sell the thing. Just a look how the criminal mind works. I didn't have much contact with that guy after that. John A. From lbickley at bickleywest.com Wed Dec 29 10:14:13 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Kontron LA 32A In-Reply-To: <41CDDC55.670B@megsinet.net> References: <41CDDC55.670B@megsinet.net> Message-ID: <200412290814.13603.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Do you (or anyone on the list) also happen to have software for the Kontron PLA/2? Thanks, Lyle On Saturday 25 December 2004 13:32, TLK wrote: > I just saw your request for software. I can make copies of the software. -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 29 10:18:19 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > This is like the Nassau solder wierdness on ePay. search for > "nassau solder". Apparently it was a captive manu of solder > (yes, the Sn/Pb stuff) owned by Western Electric (one can > imagine they used enough of the stuff to own a factory). It still > doesn't explain the outrageous prices people pay for the stuff. Weird. Why not e-mail some of the buyers and ask them to take the quiz below? > The choices are: > > a. People are incredibly stupid, and believe anything they are told. > b. There is Something We Don't Know. > c. Both. > d. Neither. > e. WTF, Over? > f. Did someone say lunch? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 29 10:23:33 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > > > This one may be insane - or maybe it's me. > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5150431291 > > > Wow, and just when you thought the true depths of madness had been > > reached. Vintage software is the next frontier upon which siege will be > > lain with exploitation to follow but I just can't see this ever getting a > > ROI worth the $1,225 price tag being offered here. If it's not a hoax > > then surely it should be. > > I'm sure it's abundantly obvious, but counterfeiting items like > that is technically trivial. Probably at least *some* of those > extreme collectors know *precisely* what the package looks like; > you'd have to use the right old copier, etc. You might even > put the right files on a vintage diskette; but if that wasn't > possible, you could use a strategically bad diskette and say > "gee sorry, it *is* 25 years old..." > > I'm not suggesting this be done, I don't work that way, and > I think it would be disgusting behavior -- but it also seems > utterly inevitable. With that kind of money to be had for 10 > cents worth of vintage materials the temptation has GOT to be > there! At least hardware you can stub your toe on. That might be a fun way to kill the market. Flood eBay with dozens of countefeit versions of highly sought after games like this. Put something on either the disk label or in the documentation that can identify it as a fake but not be obvious, or perhaps put a data marker on the disk somewhere. Sell them for a BuyItNow price of $4.95, but of course insinuate in a very weird way that this is not an original version. Once enough bogus versions are out there it should kill the urge for people to pay unwarranted sums for old software. Or it might backfire. I don't have enough time to even consider such a plan so if someone actually does this it's not me. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 29 10:39:21 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 for Sale In-Reply-To: <200412280117.iBS1Hajd005154@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Dec 2004, Chandra Bajpai wrote: > I really wish I had a deep pocketbook...In the past I've seen Lisa-1's > go for $15K, so this is a bargain (if it was real). I've heard there are > fewer than 50 Lisa-1s in existence. But I can't believe it's more > valuable than a Apple-1 though. There are probably fewer than that even. I've only tracked about 9 so far (not including the one under discussion), whereas I've tracked over 30 Apple-1's. And compared to the Apple-1, it has almost equal cachet from a techno-historical perspective. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 29 10:45:07 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Lisa 1 for Sale In-Reply-To: <021601c4ed3f$1b6c6e30$7a00a8c0@Millers> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Dec 2004, computer-history.org wrote: > randomz3 is the CFO of a family run real estate company specializing in > office, warehouse and retail properties. He has purchased several items > off me and has always paid promptly. I'd rather not pass on his name but > if you must know it eBay has a simple method of requesting contact > information. I did not think to ask him if he was planning a museum, > hording or trying to corner the market. You kind of already gave away too much information. In the very least you should have sent this to Erik directly. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 29 10:45:37 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: <20041229144834.13386.qmail@web53206.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Rich Bramante wrote: > --- Chandra Bajpai wrote: > > > You know the next thing that will happen is forgeries...I'm sure it wouldn't > > take much to forge plastic and paper...hell if they can do it with > > paintings, software can't be very difficult. > > > > -Chandra > > This is already happening. I was made aware of several cases of this being > reported in the community that specializes in collecting old Sierra On-Line > software. More details, please. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 29 10:47:38 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > I don't recall where I read it now... (somewhere in a newsgroup) but > it seems to be fueled by Japanese vintage (read tube) stereo collectors. > The original service and repair manuals spec that particular kind of > solder and there seems to be a belief that the modern equivalent is not > mixed (alloyed, whatever) correctly. So if you pay big bucks for a > tube stereo but it is repaired with the "wrong" solder, you still don't > get the "magic" sound you're looking for, hence you'll pay several > hundred bucks for an old spool of solder. Apparently, they'll even have > working units that appear to contain "incorrect" solder disassembled > all of the "bad" solder removed and then reassembled with the "right" > stuff. Wow, these people need to spend less on their music and more on their drugs. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From news at computercollector.com Wed Dec 29 10:53:35 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041229165335.27581.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> It always makes me laugh when I see one group of lunatics say all the OTHER groups are lunatics. :) Whether we collect computers, radios, typewriters, televisions, telegraphs keys, telephones, mathematical tools, hand tools, or whatever -- we're all basically doing the same thing. --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > > I don't recall where I read it now... (somewhere in a newsgroup) but > > it seems to be fueled by Japanese vintage (read tube) stereo collectors. > > The original service and repair manuals spec that particular kind of > > solder and there seems to be a belief that the modern equivalent is not > > mixed (alloyed, whatever) correctly. So if you pay big bucks for a > > tube stereo but it is repaired with the "wrong" solder, you still don't > > get the "magic" sound you're looking for, hence you'll pay several > > hundred bucks for an old spool of solder. Apparently, they'll even have > > working units that appear to contain "incorrect" solder disassembled > > all of the "bad" solder removed and then reassembled with the "right" > > stuff. > > Wow, these people need to spend less on their music and more on their > drugs. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers > ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org > ] > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all -- W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news@computercollector.com -- 628 readers and counting! From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Dec 29 11:03:45 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Ethernet Cables? In-Reply-To: "John Allain" "Re: Ethernet Cables?" (Dec 29, 10:29) References: <518E750F-5949-11D9-9B45-000502453125@eoni.com> <001801c4edbb$3de4f960$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <10412291703.ZM17536@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 29 2004, 10:29, John Allain wrote: > RJ45 type cables also factored in with IBM's Token Ring > connectivity. There were adaptors, probably Baluns to go > from the largish connectors to these. This _could_ be one. Not very likely, though. I think Jim is more likely correct, that it's a console cable or at least some sort of serial cable. The colours Marvin mentioned are often used for flat cable; baluns are for twisted pairs. Also, serial cables commonly use a scheme where the innermost two wires (4,5) are ground, either side are receive and transmit (3,6), and handshake lines DTR/DSR (or DCD) (2,7) and CTS/RTS (1,8) are at the edges. By that scheme, Marvin's cable would short DTR to DSR and RTS to CTS, which makes sense. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 29 11:24:16 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Coolest Apple emulator EVER Message-ID: http://www.virtualapple.com/ Let's you play any game from an online library of Apple ][ programs directly online using a broswer-based emulator. Requires IE and ActiveX. Too cool for words. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rich_bramante at yahoo.com Wed Dec 29 12:01:10 2004 From: rich_bramante at yahoo.com (Rich Bramante) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041229180110.54935.qmail@web53201.mail.yahoo.com> --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Rich Bramante wrote: > > > --- Chandra Bajpai wrote: > > > > > You know the next thing that will happen is forgeries...I'm sure it > wouldn't > > > take much to forge plastic and paper...hell if they can do it with > > > paintings, software can't be very difficult. > > > > > > -Chandra > > > > This is already happening. I was made aware of several cases of this being > > reported in the community that specializes in collecting old Sierra On-Line > > software. > > More details, please. This comes to me 2nd hand, so take it for what it's worth.... About 6 months ago I had offered up some fairly mint Sierra games (mostly Kings Quest versions) via eBay. This stuff was still in the shrink wrap. I'd had good luck in the past moving Sierra stuff, so I figured it would fetch a pretty good price. The stuff wound up selling for alot more than I had figured it would though (some titles upwards of $100). I didn't think much about about, chocked it up to good fortune. The buyer paid immediately via PayPal so everything was cool from my end. A few days later I got an email from a guy I had sold some Sierra stuff in the past saying he was in on the bidding for many of these items and was hoping to get them but the prices just got too insane and he had to pass. He asked some questions about the winning buyer. When I asked him why he was so interested, he said that the Sierra community was tracking a known conterfeiter of Sierra merchandise. Apparently they had caught someone dealing in bogus merchandise. This guy claimed that the counterfieter had changed names, addresses (actually moving to CA from Israel at one point) and that he had multiple aliases, addresses, and eBay ids that he was using to obtain product. He also claimed that the guy was using stolen credit card numbers for most of his purchases and had months where he spent upwards of $8000 on stuff. The community suspected that my buyer may have been their counterfeiter and were trying to keep tabs on this person. I'm not sure if my buyer was "the guy" or not (or even if the story is true!), but that's how it was explained to me. rich __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From news at computercollector.com Wed Dec 29 12:13:27 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Coolest Apple emulator EVER In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041229181327.66202.qmail@web52803.mail.yahoo.com> Wow, that is awesome... I just played "Choplifter"... It's missing two of favorites though -- Lunar Lander and Pole Position. --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > http://www.virtualapple.com/ > > Let's you play any game from an online library of Apple ][ programs > directly online using a broswer-based emulator. Requires IE and ActiveX. > > Too cool for words. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers > ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org > ] > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all -- W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news@computercollector.com -- 628 readers and counting! From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 29 12:30:19 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: <20041229165335.27581.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Computer Collector Newsletter wrote: > It always makes me laugh when I see one group of lunatics say all the OTHER > groups are lunatics. :) > > Whether we collect computers, radios, typewriters, televisions, telegraphs > keys, telephones, mathematical tools, hand tools, or whatever -- we're all > basically doing the same thing. Yeah, but you gotta admit, people who think solder makes a difference in how their Barney songs sound are seriously batty. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Dec 29 12:47:36 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: DEC: System Industries 9901-6082-A Message-ID: <20041229194736.0186fce3.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Hi. I have a quad Qbus board in front of me. It is labeld "System Industries 9901-6082-A". It has two 40 pin IDC connectors, lots of TTL, four AMD2905, three EPROMs, the usual PALs, ... This is some sort of disk controler according to google. What I didn't find out: Is this the complete controler or is this only a part of a controler? There is a "System Industries 9900". It is a separate 19" rack box containing a SMD (?) controler. It is interfaced to SBI or UniBus or ??? with a bus interface card and ribbon cables. Maybe the card I have is the QBus interface card? -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Dec 29 12:51:23 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Yeah, but you gotta admit, people who think solder makes a difference in > how their Barney songs sound are seriously batty. So what would your definition be of folks who turn this 'battiness' into huge fortunes - selling 'specific alloy' special silver teflon-coated RCA cables (...eeeww!) for *hundreds of dollars a freakin foot*!!!! And all the other "audiophool" quackery, for that matter. Hey, I just wish *I'd* had the foresight (and total lack of professional scruples) to be one of the guys selling CD anti-vibration rings and gold-alloy digital interconnect ribbons - to 'improve the sound' of your machine... gahhhh! Cheerz John From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Dec 29 12:51:35 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200412291855.NAA00273@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> It always makes me laugh when I see one group of lunatics say all >> the OTHER groups are lunatics. :) >> Whether we collect computers, radios, typewriters, televisions, >> telegraphs keys, telephones, mathematical tools, hand tools, or >> whatever -- we're all basically doing the same thing. > Yeah, but you gotta admit, people who think solder makes a difference > in how their Barney songs sound are seriously batty. No more so than people who think that running a game on a real Apple ][ makes it run any better than running it on an emulator. Emotional biases _aren't_ rational, almost by definition. Besides, I'm not sure they're wrong. *I* certainly can't hear the difference. But I've never been able to hear the difference between tube and transistor, either, and that doesn't mean I can't accept that a lot of audiophiles can. Indeed, I know one who tells me that if I were to actually do a flip-between-them comparison, I would hear the difference. (He might even be right for all I know - only one way to tell for sure.) It's just plausible enough that the exact alloy used in the solder affects the way the metal-to-metal junctions react to current flowing through them that I don't dismiss it out of hand. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us Wed Dec 29 13:59:57 2004 From: mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us (Mike Loewen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Maintenance Panel In-Reply-To: <20041229181327.66202.qmail@web52803.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041229181327.66202.qmail@web52803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Can anyone identify the system this panel came from? http://sturgeon.cac.psu.edu/~mloewen/Testpanel/ The previous owner thought it was from a Univac mainframe, but on the circuit side is a "HIS" marking (Honeywell Information Systems?). Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us The Dixie Lion Jazz Band http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/dixie.html The B9 Robot Builders Club B9-0014 http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/~mloewen/B9/ From dave04a at dunfield.com Wed Dec 29 14:10:00 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: LF: Tektronix Model 31 Info AVL: Olivetti Programma 101 parts/docs Message-ID: <20041229200959.XNYG5758.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Hi Guys, Just picked up an Tektronix Model 31 desktop calculator. This is a fairly old (early 70s) desktop programmable with built in tape storage and printer. Looking for information/documenation on it - all I got was the bare unit (which looks to be in good shape). Also got a stack of circuit boards from an Olivetti Programma 101 (early 60s) as well as the general reference manual and some programming sheets - unfortunately the machine itself was "taken apart" many years ago and this is all that remains - the boards are very interesting and worth keeping on their own, as they utilize discrete resistor/transistor logic modules. However, if someone on this list has a Programma 101 in need of parts, I would rather see them used to heal a whole machine instead of sitting on my shelf as curiosities. Regards, Dave PS: Also picked up a "MicroWat" - 6809 based computer built by the University of Waterloo in Canada - if anyone has info please contact me. -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Wed Dec 29 06:36:49 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (gordonjcp@gjcp.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Ethernet Cables? In-Reply-To: <41D19EBF.99F3040@rain.org> References: <41D19EBF.99F3040@rain.org> Message-ID: <22487.195.212.29.83.1104323809.squirrel@195.212.29.83> > > I found a couple of cables with the cable checker and have not been able > to find out what these things are. Both ends are terminated with RJ-45 > connectors, and the cable checker has pins 1 & 8 (blue/black) and 2 & 7 > (yellow/orange) shorted together. They have a tag labled "IBM P/N > 58X9806". One of them has a date of March 1990; anyone know what these > things are used for? Thanks! Almost certainly Token Ring over CAT5 cable. I checked the part number since I'm at work at the moment, but it turned up nothing - but that may not be the actual part number (AIUI there is an assembly p/n and an FRU p/n, and our parts checker only works for the assembly one. And possibly for a limited range of parts at that.) Gordon. From c3636b at hotmail.com Wed Dec 29 09:28:28 2004 From: c3636b at hotmail.com (Ben W.K Chu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: 8' floppy drive. Message-ID: Hi Rich, Do you still have Shugart 801 8" floppy driver and can you ship it to = Hong Kong. How much it cost. Please be advise. Thanks Ben From gtn at rbii.com Wed Dec 29 12:23:24 2004 From: gtn at rbii.com (Gavin Thomas Nicol) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: What are terminals worth? In-Reply-To: <20041229180110.54935.qmail@web53201.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041229180110.54935.qmail@web53201.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have a wyse wy-50 and a vt101 in good condition that I need to get rid of... I'm wondering if they're even worth putting on ebay. From fernande at internet1.net Wed Dec 29 14:24:10 2004 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Computer rescue in Kalamazoo, MI USA In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041221095316.050daa68@mail> References: <53350.146.113.42.89.1102524018.squirrel@solsun.visiwave.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041208104508.05472af8@pc> <53366.146.113.42.89.1102525398.squirrel@solsun.visiwave.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041208111400.056827b8@pc> <62932.24.247.156.80.1103643658.squirrel@solsun.visiwave.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041221095316.050daa68@mail> Message-ID: <41D3126A.5050205@internet1.net> John/All, Did anyone commit to picking this lot up? Does anyone have any interest in the majority if it? Quite a bit of it seems quite insignificant to me, but I suppose possibly worthwhile to others. That Northgate is quite a find isn't it, or am I confusing that with Northstar? I could easily pick this stuff up, as Kzoo isn't very far from me. However, there isn't much that I would want in the list. Furthermore, my garage is full of stuff. I couldn't store any of it for very long, a few weeks, tops. I don't have time to box and ship either. I've got a lot to do already. That being said, if an individual or a group, committed to picking up the lot from me, I wouldn't mind doing that. I'd want to pick through it a bit, but I could be talked out of any of it, if someone else had a greater interest or need for a particular item. In fact, I may even add to the pile a bit :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA John Foust wrote: > I received a request for computer rescue at Kalamazoo College > www.kzoo.edu in Michigan. Below is a mostly-complete list. > They'd like someone to pick it up in early January. > > - John > > Epson MX 80 F/T printer > Epson ? the big picture - monitor > Gateway 2000 486/25C - computer > HP ? computer 45945C > OKI DATA microline 182 ? printer > Compaq ? computer & keyboard > Panasonic ? monitor > Osborne ? computer + software discs > Seagate ? harddrive? ? 2 of them ST225 > Northgate ? computer > HP D class 9000 ? computer > Sun-UltraSCSI > Sun?- monitor > Gateway 2000 ? keybord > HP 700/96 ? monitor > computer shell > Apple ? computer port > HP ? keyboard > ?computer > ?computer > AT&T Unix PC-computer+screen > Sun Ultra I ? computer +screen > IBM-PCAT ? computer > IBM-PC? > Apple IIe > Digital VT100 > > > From aek at spies.com Wed Dec 29 14:36:26 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: What are terminals worth? Message-ID: <20041229203626.6E5B148A0@spies.com> I have a wyse wy-50 and a vt101 in good condition that I need to get rid of... I'm wondering if they're even worth putting on ebay. -- yes, esp if the vt101 has a working power supply. I don't know what is is about late 70's DEC switchers, but just about everything I have now with them in is dead (VT100's, 11/44's, et al) From tpeters at mixcom.com Wed Dec 29 14:50:24 2004 From: tpeters at mixcom.com (Tom Peters) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Apple II DOS manuals In-Reply-To: References: <20041229181327.66202.qmail@web52803.mail.yahoo.com> <20041229181327.66202.qmail@web52803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041229144739.0af70950@localhost> I'm going to post my old Apple II manuals for sale on ePay. No job. Need $. Hope someone bites. # Apple II: The DOS Manual # Apple //: DOS Programmer's Manual (for II, II+, //e) # Apple //: DOS User's Manual (for II, II+, //e) One of them is in the original shrink wrap. All are perfect, unmarked. Wish me luck. [Computing] I have been told that _Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology_ was required reading at the Xerox PARC lab where OOP was invented, but this may be merely an urban legend. -- wilcoxb@cs.colorado.edu (Bryce Wilcox) --... ...-- -.. . -. ----. --.- --.- -... tpeters@nospam.mixcom.com (remove "nospam") N9QQB (amateur radio) "HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB ADDRESS http//www.mixweb.com/tpeters 43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square EN53wc WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, Cisco Certified CCNA From tpeters at mixcom.com Wed Dec 29 14:55:18 2004 From: tpeters at mixcom.com (Tom Peters) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: LF: Tektronix Model 31 Info AVL: Olivetti Programma 101 parts/docs In-Reply-To: <20041229200959.XNYG5758.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041229145037.00b370b8@localhost> I just found a tape (printed paper) of my program for printing a random toss of the dice, something I banged into an Olivetti 101 back in about 1977 or so. It's huge. It was in the same box as some six rolls of 1" 8-column punched paper tape, canary yellow, from the ASR-33 I used to use to write programs on the TSS/8 system in high school, same era as above. I have no idea what the programs were for. I might not have punched a people-readable header, or I might have rolled them end-out for some long forgotten reason. Looking at the printouts that were with them, it doesn't seem to be a huge loss. I was a really awful programmer in high school. At 03:10 PM 12/29/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Guys, > >Just picked up an Tektronix Model 31 desktop calculator. This is a >fairly old (early 70s) desktop programmable with built in tape storage >and printer. > >Looking for information/documenation on it - all I got was the bare >unit (which looks to be in good shape). > >Also got a stack of circuit boards from an Olivetti Programma 101 >(early 60s) as well as the general reference manual and some programming >sheets - unfortunately the machine itself was "taken apart" many years ago >and this is all that remains - the boards are very interesting and worth >keeping on their own, as they utilize discrete resistor/transistor logic >modules. However, if someone on this list has a Programma 101 in need of >parts, I would rather see them used to heal a whole machine instead of >sitting on my shelf as curiosities. > >Regards, >Dave > >PS: Also picked up a "MicroWat" - 6809 based computer built by the University >of Waterloo in Canada - if anyone has info please contact me. >-- >dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html [Philosophy] I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals. --Winston Churchill --... ...-- -.. . -. ----. --.- --.- -... tpeters@nospam.mixcom.com (remove "nospam") N9QQB (amateur radio) "HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB ADDRESS http//www.mixweb.com/tpeters 43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square EN53wc WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, Cisco Certified CCNA From Innfogra at aol.com Wed Dec 29 15:04:08 2004 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Cray CS6400 CD on epay Message-ID: Don't know what it is but those with Cray CS6400s might be interested. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5113304032&rd =1 Paxton Astoria, OR From jdboyd at jdboyd.net Wed Dec 29 15:05:07 2004 From: jdboyd at jdboyd.net (Joshua Boyd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Acard LVD-to-IDE Bridge In-Reply-To: <200412030020.iB30KiZ7008287@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <20041202213135.GA3794@jdboyd.zill.net> <200412030020.iB30KiZ7008287@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <20041229210507.GA3653@jdboyd.zill.net> On Thu, Dec 02, 2004 at 04:20:44PM -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Interesting, I can get the LVD model for somewhere around $20-30 cheaper than > the UW-SCSI model. OTOH, it's still more than I want to spend to see if it > will work or not since I don't have any U160 controllers. > > I don't care if it's HD only, as I want to use to hook a couple nice big > HD's up to my OpenVMS box. What can I say, I'm looking for quieter storage. I think there is a fair chance that the company would be willing to work with you if there are issues. So far I know of people using various cards from Acard on Macs, Suns, and SGIs without a single glitch for harddrives. If you don't want to spend a lot of money, just wait for one of the cards to be on ebay. Not always cheap, but my UW-SCSI Acard was $25. At the moment there is one 7720UW from a seller named 55trucker that looks like it might possibly go for a similar price. BTW, sorry to be so long in replying. classiccmp goes to a seperate folder and I don't get around to reading it all that frequently. -- Joshua D. Boyd jdboyd@jdboyd.net http://www.jdboyd.net/ http://www.joshuaboyd.org/ From williams.dan at gmail.com Wed Dec 29 15:24:10 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Maintenance Panel In-Reply-To: References: <20041229181327.66202.qmail@web52803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <26c11a6404122913247b95edbe@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 14:59:57 -0500 (EST), Mike Loewen wrote: > > Can anyone identify the system this panel came from? > > http://sturgeon.cac.psu.edu/~mloewen/Testpanel/ > > The previous owner thought it was from a Univac mainframe, but on the > circuit side is a "HIS" marking (Honeywell Information Systems?). > > > Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us > The Dixie Lion Jazz Band http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/dixie.html > The B9 Robot Builders Club B9-0014 http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/~mloewen/B9/ > Don't know but it looks great Dan From pat at computer-refuge.org Wed Dec 29 15:42:22 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:37 2005 Subject: Cray CS6400 CD on epay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200412291642.22740.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Wednesday 29 December 2004 16:04, Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > Don't know what it is but those with Cray CS6400s might be > interested. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5113 >304032&rd =1 Aparently, it's a diagnostics/system checkout CD according to my roommate. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 29 16:09:56 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, John Lawson wrote: > So what would your definition be of folks who turn this 'battiness' into > huge fortunes - selling 'specific alloy' special silver teflon-coated RCA > cables (...eeeww!) for *hundreds of dollars a freakin foot*!!!! And all > the other "audiophool" quackery, for that matter. I'd call them Capitalists :) > Hey, I just wish *I'd* had the foresight (and total lack of professional > scruples) to be one of the guys selling CD anti-vibration rings and > gold-alloy digital interconnect ribbons - to 'improve the sound' of your > machine... I think I'll start selling a special line of vintage computer gear: High-retention floppy disks - stores bits longer than standard media (on average) Non-abrasive mouse pads - preserves the underside mechanics of vintage mice so they don't wear out over time etc... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 29 16:10:55 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: <200412291855.NAA00273@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, der Mouse wrote: > >> It always makes me laugh when I see one group of lunatics say all > >> the OTHER groups are lunatics. :) > > >> Whether we collect computers, radios, typewriters, televisions, > >> telegraphs keys, telephones, mathematical tools, hand tools, or > >> whatever -- we're all basically doing the same thing. > > > Yeah, but you gotta admit, people who think solder makes a difference > > in how their Barney songs sound are seriously batty. > > No more so than people who think that running a game on a real Apple ][ > makes it run any better than running it on an emulator. > > Emotional biases _aren't_ rational, almost by definition. > > Besides, I'm not sure they're wrong. *I* certainly can't hear the > difference. But I've never been able to hear the difference between > tube and transistor, either, and that doesn't mean I can't accept that > a lot of audiophiles can. Indeed, I know one who tells me that if I > were to actually do a flip-between-them comparison, I would hear the > difference. (He might even be right for all I know - only one way to > tell for sure.) It's just plausible enough that the exact alloy used > in the solder affects the way the metal-to-metal junctions react to > current flowing through them that I don't dismiss it out of hand. Bahaha. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From tomj at wps.com Wed Dec 29 16:19:41 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Computer Collector Newsletter wrote: > > > It always makes me laugh when I see one group of lunatics say all the OTHER > > groups are lunatics. :) On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Yeah, but you gotta admit, people who think solder makes a difference in > how their Barney songs sound are seriously batty. Well, two things I thought were totally batty -- and in the audio field, no less -- turn out to be not so simple. One, carbon composition vs. film resistors. It's not unreasonable, it turns out, to be able to hear the difference between them (in early stages). Voltage rating. Carbon Comps (CC) handle HV (600 VDC) well, films not so well. Likely near max V all sorts of microvolt-level wierdness begins in the film jobs, plus micro-arc-overs, leakage paths, etc. CC's are noisy, and noise injection is complex, but may have dynamic characteristics that are simply not spec'd. Hell, human HEARING is complex and not linear. Someone (John L.?) was discussing audio recordings of teletype gear, how system X did a poor job vs system Y. At issue was the fact that the human ear is an *active* device -- when hearing the repetitive, high-impulse noise of teletype printing, you brain/ear *anticipates* the sharp >>WHACK<< of the print hammer and pulls back on the stirrup in your inner ear! Futzing with dynamic range etc messes with *that*. Two, power wire quality. The issue is the poor band-stop of power supply filters for higher frequencies, even with zillions of uF's. Anyone who's worked with RF knows about this. In a home stereo there's limits without running bussbar back to the street, but in a studio you'll end up with 100's of feet of signal path, and with a quiet system things Do Add Up. All of this stuff has particular subtle contexts. I seriously doubt you could hear the diff between film and CC 100 ohm cathode resistors in a driver amp, and the idea that one gold-plated power cord improves anything but profitability -- I'll believe anything with sufficient evidence, but solder alloys in a solder joint sounds like total crap to me -- unless I had a lot of rolls to offload on fools with more money than I ... :-) From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 29 16:19:07 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: What are terminals worth? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Gavin Thomas Nicol wrote: > I have a wyse wy-50 and a vt101 in good condition that I need to get > rid of... I'm wondering if they're even worth putting on ebay. Maybe. Try the Vintage Computer Marketplace instead to avoid any fees: http://marketplace.vintage.org -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 29 16:21:39 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: What are terminals worth? In-Reply-To: <20041229203626.6E5B148A0@spies.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Al Kossow wrote: > > I have a wyse wy-50 and a vt101 in good condition that I need to get > rid of... I'm wondering if they're even worth putting on ebay. > > > -- > > yes, esp if the vt101 has a working power supply. > > I don't know what is is about late 70's DEC switchers, but > just about everything I have now with them in is dead (VT100's, > 11/44's, et al) Speaking of which (kinda) I've got a dead VT105. What is a VT105? Was it just a VT100 made to go with the PDP 11/05? It looks just like a VT100. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Dec 29 16:25:41 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Maintenance Panel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > The previous owner thought it was from a Univac mainframe, but on the > circuit side is a "HIS" marking (Honeywell Information Systems?). Very probably not Univac, as they started their bits at 1, not 0. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From tomj at wps.com Wed Dec 29 16:26:18 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > High-retention floppy disks - stores bits longer than standard media (on > average) > > Non-abrasive mouse pads - preserves the underside mechanics of vintage > mice so they don't wear out over time The trick is though, to make the 'results' so utterly subjective that there's no possibility for a claim of fraud. TV psychics, fortune cookies, mutual funds, that sort of thing. Now a diskette that lowers spreadsheet typos, or a mousepad that improves accuracy of my clicks -- THAT I'd be willing to pay for! From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Dec 29 16:32:37 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41D33085.50203@jcwren.com> I need 24 of your 12' 99.999% oxygen-free hyper-velocity mono-directional silver-alloyed frequency-balanced serial cables with the vibration-resistant electron-free plenum-grade jacketing, so my bits don't get corrupted at 9600 baud. How much including shipping, please? --jc Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, John Lawson wrote: > > > >> So what would your definition be of folks who turn this 'battiness' into >>huge fortunes - selling 'specific alloy' special silver teflon-coated RCA >>cables (...eeeww!) for *hundreds of dollars a freakin foot*!!!! And all >>the other "audiophool" quackery, for that matter. >> >> > >I'd call them Capitalists :) > > > >> Hey, I just wish *I'd* had the foresight (and total lack of professional >>scruples) to be one of the guys selling CD anti-vibration rings and >>gold-alloy digital interconnect ribbons - to 'improve the sound' of your >>machine... >> >> > >I think I'll start selling a special line of vintage computer gear: > >High-retention floppy disks - stores bits longer than standard media (on >average) > >Non-abrasive mouse pads - preserves the underside mechanics of vintage >mice so they don't wear out over time > >etc... > > > From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 29 16:31:43 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > I'll believe anything with sufficient evidence, but solder alloys > in a solder joint sounds like total crap to me -- unless I had > a lot of rolls to offload on fools with more money than I ... :-) That's the thing mainly with these crazy audiophiles. Except for the two examples you bring up, which seems like they have a technical basis to the theory, most of it is just voodoo hocum that doesn't have any underlying technical or scientific basis. One loon comes up with a wacko theory and then it propagates until everyone is demanding special-alloy solder. Why? They don't know, and they don't care. Some guy said it makes the electrons happy so they have to get some too. It's completely naive. I want to see technical treatises explaining WHY, with scientifically executed experiments backed up with empirical data, before I believe any of this nonsense. I think these audio guys ought to demand the same. They might save a few bucks. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 29 16:36:09 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: HP-41 Synthetic Programming Made Easy In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Dec 28, 4 06:19:10 pm Message-ID: > > > I just found a nice book that I'm sure a few people (Tony in the least) > would find interesting (if they don't already have a copy). > > It's called "HP-41 Synthetic Programming Made Easy" by Keith Jarett. It I am well aware of said book, although I don't think I have it on paper (I think it's on the MoHPC CD-ROMs, and I have those). Personally, I find 'Extend your HP41' by Wlodek Mier-J to be the best introduction to HP41 synthetic programming, and one of the best books to look at first for general HP41 software questions (hardware questions send me to the servicec manual, really exotic software questions convice me to get the ROM source listing out...). 'HP41 M-code for beginners' is another excellent book on machine code programming on the HP41 (which needs a special memory box) And yes, my 'HP41 Synthetic Programming Quick Reference guide', a much used one, is in front of me, and I still have my multi-coloured byte table card to hand. The HP41 is certainly not dead here.. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 29 17:21:49 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: LF: Tektronix Model 31 Info AVL: Olivetti Programma 101 parts/docs In-Reply-To: <20041229200959.XNYG5758.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> from "Dave Dunfield" at Dec 29, 4 03:10:00 pm Message-ID: > > Hi Guys, > > Just picked up an Tektronix Model 31 desktop calculator. This is a > fairly old (early 70s) desktop programmable with built in tape storage > and printer. > > Looking for information/documenation on it - all I got was the bare > unit (which looks to be in good shape). It's not much, but somewhere I have the service manual for the 4661 plotter that was used with this machine. I think at least I could get you a pinout of the I/O connector if that's of any interest. -tony From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 29 17:32:46 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Commodore sold yet again In-Reply-To: <20060210225732.CFBE673029@linus.groomlake.area51> References: <20060210225732.CFBE673029@linus.groomlake.area51> Message-ID: http://www.ann.lu/detail.cgi?category=news&file=1104276545.msg Tulip Computers announce the sale of Commodore to the American Yeahronimo Media Ventures for 24 million Euro. Click 'read more' for a Babelfish translation of the original article. -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From aek at spies.com Wed Dec 29 17:34:57 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Rand Message-ID: <20041229233457.B0DC949C1@spies.com> [Computing] I have been told that _Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology_ was required reading at the Xerox PARC lab where OOP was invented, but this may be merely an urban legend. -- wilcoxb at cs.colorado.edu (Bryce Wilcox) -- In view of the temporal sequence, it seemed plausible to ask whether Rand¹s work had any actual influence on Kay and his colleagues at Xerox PARC. In October 2001, I sent electronic mail messages to Kay, and to all the members of his original Smalltalk team whose e-mail addresses were available on the Internet, asking this question. The replies I received were unanimous: Ayn Rand¹s epistemology was not discussed by or known to any of them. Kay kindly sent me an extended reply, reproduced in Appendix A http://www.objectivistcenter.org/events/advsem03/ReedOOP.pdf From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 29 17:36:13 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: What are terminals worth? In-Reply-To: <20041229203626.6E5B148A0@spies.com> from "Al Kossow" at Dec 29, 4 12:36:26 pm Message-ID: > > > I have a wyse wy-50 and a vt101 in good condition that I need to get > rid of... I'm wondering if they're even worth putting on ebay. > > > -- > > yes, esp if the vt101 has a working power supply. > > I don't know what is is about late 70's DEC switchers, but > just about everything I have now with them in is dead (VT100's, > 11/44's, et al) Those power supplies are not that difficult to fix (they're actually more pleasant to work on than more modern SMPSUs in my experiece, since most of the control circuitry is on the isolated side of the supply). I've done both of them... However, the VT101 PSU is totally different to that in the VT100. The VT101 supply has a big mains-frequency transformer. I think the regulators may well be switchers (at least for the 5V output), but I would have to dig out one to check. It's not a real SMPSU, though. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 29 17:42:25 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: What are terminals worth? In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Dec 29, 4 02:21:39 pm Message-ID: > Speaking of which (kinda) I've got a dead VT105. What is a VT105? Was it > just a VT100 made to go with the PDP 11/05? It looks just like a VT100. No, it's a VT100 with a 'function generator' board in it. This board adds the ability to plot mathematical functions -- for each column of the display (that's dot column, mot character column), you can set store 2 Y values. Either the point at that Y value is displayed (so you can plot the graphs of 2 functions) or all points below the specified one (including it, I think) are displayed, so you can plot barcharts. It was a way to get a fairly high-res display with limited memory, but of course it's useless for displaying bitmapped images, etc. It was certainly supplied with the MINC (in fact the schematic of the extra board is in my MINC printset), but it works with anything with an RS232 interface. Incidentally, a VT55 is a VT52 with a similar graphics display capability. -tony From news at computercollector.com Wed Dec 29 18:20:55 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Commodore sold yet again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041230002055.79080.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> Here's the English press release from Tulip: http://www.tulip.com/aboutus/corp_article.asp?nid=171 --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > http://www.ann.lu/detail.cgi?category=news&file=1104276545.msg > Tulip Computers announce the sale of Commodore to the American > Yeahronimo Media Ventures for 24 million Euro. Click 'read more' for > a Babelfish translation of the original article. > > -- > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all -- W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news@computercollector.com -- 628 readers and counting! From williams.dan at gmail.com Wed Dec 29 18:37:37 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26c11a6404122916371b12f374@mail.gmail.com> Maybe if I sprayed some the mountain of vaxstation 3100's hiding in my cupboard in imac colours. I could make a fortune selling them. Reserve bid ?3000 Utra rare 3 hard drives 4x the speed of the original vax Authentic BNC connection. Original cdrom drive (see my other auction for caddies ?200 each) Runs Linux How many do you think I'd get rid of ? Dan From vax9000 at gmail.com Wed Dec 29 18:52:11 2004 From: vax9000 at gmail.com (9000 VAX) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: <26c11a6404122916371b12f374@mail.gmail.com> References: <26c11a6404122916371b12f374@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:37:37 +0000, Dan Williams wrote: > Maybe if I sprayed some the mountain of vaxstation 3100's hiding in my > cupboard in imac colours. I could make a fortune selling them. > > Reserve bid ?3000 > Utra rare > 3 hard drives > 4x the speed of the original vax > Authentic BNC connection. > Original cdrom drive (see my other auction for caddies ?200 each) > Runs Linux Not yet > > How many do you think I'd get rid of ? > > Dan > > From gsutton9503 at wavecable.com Wed Dec 29 18:55:19 2004 From: gsutton9503 at wavecable.com (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: <26c11a6404122916371b12f374@mail.gmail.com> References: <26c11a6404122916371b12f374@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41D351F7.5010703@wavecable.com> I'm just happy that my Wizardry Mordor Charge Card at least has the minimum $5.00 bid on it now. :D From williams.dan at gmail.com Wed Dec 29 18:58:11 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: References: <26c11a6404122916371b12f374@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <26c11a640412291658be51d3a@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:52:11 -0500, 9000 VAX wrote: > On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:37:37 +0000, Dan Williams wrote: > > Maybe if I sprayed some the mountain of vaxstation 3100's hiding in my > > cupboard in imac colours. I could make a fortune selling them. > > > > Reserve bid ?3000 > > Utra rare > > 3 hard drives > > 4x the speed of the original vax > > Authentic BNC connection. > > Original cdrom drive (see my other auction for caddies ?200 each) > > Runs Linux > Not yet I've never tried it, but I thought it at least booted. Dan > > From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Wed Dec 29 19:11:06 2004 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Reviving old hard drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is there a repository of information regarding reviving old hard drives? Specifically, I have a Seagate ST3390N in a Mac Iici that appeard not to spin-up anymore. I'm wondering if there are any "tricks" that might get this drive running again? It's got my running copy of Opcode Vision on it, and I've not found any newer MIDI sequencing software that runs on current systems that I'm more comfortablr with... I'd love to get my Vision running again! - Bob From vax9000 at gmail.com Wed Dec 29 19:21:07 2004 From: vax9000 at gmail.com (9000 VAX) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Reviving old hard drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 20:11:06 -0500, Bob Lafleur wrote: > Is there a repository of information regarding reviving old hard drives? > > Specifically, I have a Seagate ST3390N in a Mac Iici that appeard not to > spin-up anymore. I'm wondering if there are any "tricks" that might get this > drive running again? It's got my running copy of Opcode Vision on it, and > I've not found any newer MIDI sequencing software that runs on current > systems that I'm more comfortablr with... I'd love to get my Vision running > again! If the circuit board is defective, you might want to find another ST3390N and replace the circuit board. Other than that, I have no idea how a hard drive could be repaired. vax, 9000 > > - Bob > > From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Dec 29 19:31:57 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: <26c11a6404122916371b12f374@mail.gmail.com> from Dan Williams at "Dec 30, 4 00:37:37 am" Message-ID: <200412300131.RAA16588@floodgap.com> > Maybe if I sprayed some the mountain of vaxstation 3100's hiding in my > cupboard in imac colours. I could make a fortune selling them. An iVax in Bondi Blue. The kids will love it. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Magic Eight Ball vs. Microsoft: "Outlook not so good" ---------------------- From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Dec 29 19:40:52 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > One, carbon composition vs. film resistors. It's not > unreasonable, it turns out, to be able to hear the difference > between them (in early stages). Voltage rating. Carbon Comps > (CC) handle HV (600 VDC) well, films not so well. Likely near > max V all sorts of microvolt-level wierdness begins in the > film jobs, plus micro-arc-overs, leakage paths, etc. Seem to me that these are just crummy, underrated film types. > CC's are > noisy, and noise injection is complex, but may have dynamic > characteristics that are simply not spec'd. Composition resistors also are not stable. They drift over time. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 29 19:39:47 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Commodore sold yet again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > http://www.ann.lu/detail.cgi?category=news&file=1104276545.msg > Tulip Computers announce the sale of Commodore to the American > Yeahronimo Media Ventures for 24 million Euro. Click 'read more' for > a Babelfish translation of the original article. 24 MILLION Euro? FOR WHAT? Commodore means NOTHING commercially anymore. It's a god damn pyramid scheme at this point. Each new owner hoping to find an even more naive buyer than they were. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From news at computercollector.com Wed Dec 29 19:42:37 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Update -- Interview with the Commodore buyer! Message-ID: <20041230014237.15671.qmail@web52801.mail.yahoo.com> Just posted an article about this news to my web site, http://news.computercollector.com. -- Evan K. ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all -- W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news@computercollector.com -- 628 readers and counting! From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Dec 29 19:47:00 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Commodore sold yet again In-Reply-To: from Vintage Computer Festival at "Dec 29, 4 05:39:47 pm" Message-ID: <200412300147.RAA14810@floodgap.com> > > http://www.ann.lu/detail.cgi?category=news&file=1104276545.msg > > Tulip Computers announce the sale of Commodore to the American > > Yeahronimo Media Ventures for 24 million Euro. Click 'read more' for > > a Babelfish translation of the original article. > > 24 MILLION Euro? FOR WHAT? Commodore means NOTHING commercially anymore. > It's a god damn pyramid scheme at this point. Each new owner hoping to > find an even more naive buyer than they were. I rather agree, especially considering the me-too iPoops that this union previously spat forth (Yeahronimo was part of the original Commodore "music" arm when Tulip decided to get down and dirty with their trademark). If Tulip couldn't properly capitalize on it, then relative unknown Yeahronimo is paying 24 million EUR merely for a chance to be laughed at by future retrocomputer geeks. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Son, God's going to use you. Until He does, take this pill. -- Mark Lowry -- From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Dec 29 19:48:30 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Commodore sold yet again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > 24 MILLION Euro? FOR WHAT? Commodore means NOTHING commercially anymore. > It's a god damn pyramid scheme at this point. Each new owner hoping to > find an even more naive buyer than they were. Does it? I think it might, now that all the kids that grew up on C64s have money. Anyway, 24 million Euro just isn't that big of a business transaction these days. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Dec 29 19:48:32 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Update -- Interview with the Commodore buyer! In-Reply-To: <20041230014237.15671.qmail@web52801.mail.yahoo.com> from Computer Collector Newsletter at "Dec 29, 4 05:42:37 pm" Message-ID: <200412300148.RAA16440@floodgap.com> > Just posted an article about this news to my web site, > http://news.computercollector.com. Freni doesn't own Amiga, btw. That's still owned by Amiga (fat lot of good it does them), which is to say, the Amiga formed when Amino Development bought the license and marks from Gateway. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Are you living in the real world? -- "Cowboy Bebop: The Movie" ------------- From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 29 19:51:22 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Update -- Interview with the Commodore buyer! In-Reply-To: <20041230014237.15671.qmail@web52801.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Computer Collector Newsletter wrote: > Just posted an article about this news to my web site, > http://news.computercollector.com. "Yeahronimo, upon making the acquisition, learned its Commodore history in a hurry." Too bad they spent about as much time learning their business skills. What a joke (not your article but the subject). I'll bet $1,000 that within 2 years they'll be writing off the acquisition as a loss (or trying to sell the Commodore brand name to the next sucker). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From news at computercollector.com Wed Dec 29 19:52:53 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Update -- Interview with the Commodore buyer! In-Reply-To: <200412300148.RAA16440@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <20041230015254.45166.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks for clarifying that -- just corrected it. --- Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Just posted an article about this news to my web site, > > http://news.computercollector.com. > > Freni doesn't own Amiga, btw. That's still owned by Amiga (fat lot of good > it does them), which is to say, the Amiga formed when Amino Development > bought the license and marks from Gateway. > > -- > ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ > -- > Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * > ckaiser@floodgap.com > -- Are you living in the real world? -- "Cowboy Bebop: The Movie" > ------------- > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all -- W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news@computercollector.com -- 628 readers and counting! From news at computercollector.com Wed Dec 29 19:54:14 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Update -- Interview with the Commodore buyer! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041230015414.32169.qmail@web52807.mail.yahoo.com> LOL, and thank you Sellam for specifying that (for once!) the media isn't to blame. :) --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Computer Collector Newsletter wrote: > > > Just posted an article about this news to my web site, > > http://news.computercollector.com. > > "Yeahronimo, upon making the acquisition, learned its Commodore history in > a hurry." Too bad they spent about as much time learning their business > skills. > > What a joke (not your article but the subject). I'll bet $1,000 that > within 2 years they'll be writing off the acquisition as a loss (or trying > to sell the Commodore brand name to the next sucker). > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers > ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org > ] > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all -- W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news@computercollector.com -- 628 readers and counting! From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Dec 29 19:57:56 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: <20041229011005.26728.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > But it makes me wonder, what is the most that we've all knowingly over-paid for > a collector's item in the hobby -- perhaps something that you really wanted and > said "just this once"...? What? Show our hands? Seriously, I have spent some big bucks for some computers and radios. That B1900 on EBay cost me about $2K when all was said and done (mostly shipping). A string of 3330 drives is costing me about $500 a pop. Sometimes the rarity commands the price. One purchase was insanely expensive. However, you aren't going to find out how much... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 29 19:57:12 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Commodore sold yet again In-Reply-To: <200412300147.RAA14810@floodgap.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > If Tulip couldn't properly capitalize on it, then relative unknown > Yeahronimo is paying 24 million EUR merely for a chance to be laughed at > by future retrocomputer geeks. You nailed it. We are witnessing computer business history in the making here. This is going to push that story about Osborne (going out of business due to announcing their next product too early) to second place in business school case studies. Sorry, I'm just flabberghasted at the stupidity of this. I wish I had that much stupid money to throw away. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 29 19:59:21 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Commodore sold yet again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > 24 MILLION Euro? FOR WHAT? Commodore means NOTHING commercially anymore. > > It's a god damn pyramid scheme at this point. Each new owner hoping to > > find an even more naive buyer than they were. > > Does it? I think it might, now that all the kids that grew up on C64s have > money. Bah! The group that you refer to is not worth EU$24 million, plain and simple. The Commodore brand name is meaningless in the greater marketplace at this point. Sure you've got a few thousand diehards that might buy a Commodore MP3 player as a novelty, but what does that net you? > Anyway, 24 million Euro just isn't that big of a business transaction > these days. It is when it's used to purchase dust. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Dec 29 20:18:05 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Commodore sold yet again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Bah! The group that you refer to is not worth EU$24 million, plain and > simple. Some of the kids that grew up playing with C64s make 24 million Euro a year. It is not just the retro crowd, but the whole generation. It is the name. Some names come back with incredible power (Packard-Bell anyone?). 24 mE might actually be cheap. > The Commodore brand name is meaningless in the greater > marketplace at this point. Sure you've got a few thousand diehards that > might buy a Commodore MP3 player as a novelty, but what does that net you? Get into the mind of a marketting boob. Imagine coming out with a line of MP3 players or game machines, or whatever. Everytime you show a commercial or ad with the "new" Commodore, countless people, geeks or otherwise, will think of the happy memories of spending a couple of hours a day after high school playing games on you C64 (that's what I did, anyway). No pressures, mom isn't home, screw German homework, a stack of cookies, maybe a little Green Guy, and Racing Construction Set. Good memories leave a good impression, and the ad works. Now get out. > It is when it's used to purchase dust. How much does it cost to make a series of television commercials? They are just a different marketing tool. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Dec 29 20:15:46 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (woodelf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41D364D2.2050801@jetnet.ab.ca> William Donzelli wrote: >>One, carbon composition vs. film resistors. It's not >>unreasonable, it turns out, to be able to hear the difference >>between them (in early stages). Voltage rating. Carbon Comps >>(CC) handle HV (600 VDC) well, films not so well. Likely near >>max V all sorts of microvolt-level wierdness begins in the >>film jobs, plus micro-arc-overs, leakage paths, etc. >> >> > >Seem to me that these are just crummy, underrated film types. > > I like kiwame carbon film resistors myself. At $1.10 each they seem to be better quality than the 2 cent resistors. 1000 volt DV rating - 2 watts From jrasite at eoni.com Wed Dec 29 21:02:28 2004 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Reviving old hard drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41D36FC4.1040106@eoni.com> 9000 VAX wrote: >On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 20:11:06 -0500, Bob Lafleur > wrote: > > >>Is there a repository of information regarding reviving old hard drives? >> >>Specifically, I have a Seagate ST3390N in a Mac Iici that appeard not to >>spin-up anymore. I'm wondering if there are any "tricks" that might get this >>drive running again? It's got my running copy of Opcode Vision on it, and >>I've not found any newer MIDI sequencing software that runs on current >>systems that I'm more comfortablr with... I'd love to get my Vision running >>again! >> >> >If the circuit board is defective, you might want to find another >ST3390N and replace the circuit board. Other than that, I have no idea >how a hard drive could be repaired. > >vax, 9000 > > First the caveat... YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY! Two tricks: Trick the first: smack it against your palm. Fairly forcefully. Trick the second: Place it in the freezer for a couple of hours. If either trick works, immediately transfer the data you need to another drive. You may only get one chance. Bonus trick: Data recovery services. If the data is really valuable. Cost could easily be in the hundreds of dollars. Jim From rcini at optonline.net Wed Dec 29 21:20:30 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Commodore sold yet again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601c4ee1e$84851400$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> $24 million Euro is a lot to pay for a trademark. The Commodore name, although recognizable, has not delivered a product in 10 years. Part of my job as a banker is evaluating things like this for financing. I've seen valuations like this before but for marks associated with an active, in-business company currently selling product. And even then, valuations like this are associated with top-level brands. If the business plan was to bring out a line of computers (retro or otherwise), then one could possibly justify the steep price for a "dead" (menaing not selling any product) name. The only thing the "Commodore" name has going for it at this point is the high recognition factor. I bet it's above 90% but only for certain age groups. Ask your average 15-year-old about it and the recognition level is probably below 20%. To pay $24mm to slap a "nostalgic" name on MP3 players is a losing proposition, as evidenced by the buying and selling of the name over the last few years. Just my $0.02. I love the Commodore brand -- it was the first machine I bought -- and it kills me that it get's traded the way it does. Rich Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of William Donzelli Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 9:18 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Commodore sold yet again > Bah! The group that you refer to is not worth EU$24 million, plain and > simple. Some of the kids that grew up playing with C64s make 24 million Euro a year. It is not just the retro crowd, but the whole generation. It is the name. Some names come back with incredible power (Packard-Bell anyone?). 24 mE might actually be cheap. > The Commodore brand name is meaningless in the greater > marketplace at this point. Sure you've got a few thousand diehards that > might buy a Commodore MP3 player as a novelty, but what does that net you? Get into the mind of a marketting boob. Imagine coming out with a line of MP3 players or game machines, or whatever. Everytime you show a commercial or ad with the "new" Commodore, countless people, geeks or otherwise, will think of the happy memories of spending a couple of hours a day after high school playing games on you C64 (that's what I did, anyway). No pressures, mom isn't home, screw German homework, a stack of cookies, maybe a little Green Guy, and Racing Construction Set. Good memories leave a good impression, and the ad works. Now get out. > It is when it's used to purchase dust. How much does it cost to make a series of television commercials? They are just a different marketing tool. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From news at computercollector.com Wed Dec 29 21:26:32 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Commodore sold yet again In-Reply-To: <000601c4ee1e$84851400$6501a8c0@bbrk0oksry5qza> Message-ID: <20041230032632.31937.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> For whatever it's worth, the player they're planning for April 2005 will also play Commodore games. (Maybe via Jeri Ellsworth's technology? They didn't specify.) --- "Richard A. Cini" wrote: > > $24 million Euro is a lot to pay for a trademark. The Commodore name, > although recognizable, has not delivered a product in 10 years. Part of my > job as a banker is evaluating things like this for financing. I've seen > valuations like this before but for marks associated with an active, > in-business company currently selling product. And even then, valuations > like this are associated with top-level brands. > > If the business plan was to bring out a line of computers (retro or > otherwise), then one could possibly justify the steep price for a "dead" > (menaing not selling any product) name. The only thing the "Commodore" name > has going for it at this point is the high recognition factor. I bet it's > above 90% but only for certain age groups. Ask your average 15-year-old > about it and the recognition level is probably below 20%. > > To pay $24mm to slap a "nostalgic" name on MP3 players is a losing > proposition, as evidenced by the buying and selling of the name over the > last few years. > > Just my $0.02. I love the Commodore brand -- it was the first machine I > bought -- and it kills me that it get's traded the way it does. > > Rich > Rich > > Rich Cini > Collector of classic computers > Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project > Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > /************************************************************/ > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of William Donzelli > Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 9:18 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Commodore sold yet again > > > > Bah! The group that you refer to is not worth EU$24 million, plain and > > simple. > > Some of the kids that grew up playing with C64s make 24 million Euro a > year. It is not just the retro crowd, but the whole generation. > > It is the name. Some names come back with incredible power (Packard-Bell > anyone?). 24 mE might actually be cheap. > > > The Commodore brand name is meaningless in the greater > > marketplace at this point. Sure you've got a few thousand diehards that > > might buy a Commodore MP3 player as a novelty, but what does that net you? > > Get into the mind of a marketting boob. Imagine coming out with a line of > MP3 players or game machines, or whatever. Everytime you show a commercial > or ad with the "new" Commodore, countless people, geeks or otherwise, will > think of the happy memories of spending a couple of hours a day after high > school playing games on you C64 (that's what I did, anyway). No pressures, > mom isn't home, screw German homework, a stack of cookies, maybe a little > Green Guy, and Racing Construction Set. Good memories leave a good > impression, and the ad works. > > Now get out. > > > It is when it's used to purchase dust. > > How much does it cost to make a series of television commercials? They are > just a different marketing tool. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > > ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all -- W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news@computercollector.com -- 628 readers and counting! From paulpenn at knology.net Wed Dec 29 21:51:22 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul A. Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Reviving old hard drives References: Message-ID: <00b101c4ee22$d4185640$6601a8c0@ibm6go1addn6c0> Bob; > Specifically, I have a Seagate ST3390N in a Mac Iici that appeard not to > spin-up anymore. Please don't beat on the drive! The heads on these old-timers would sometimes stick to the platters and not spin up. You can usually break them loose without damage if you know what you're doing. This is a little hard to describe so bear with me. You need to remove the drive from the computer. Hold it with your hand on the bottom next to the circuit board. Rotate the drive quickly by twisting your wrist, stopping short at the end of your range of motion. In other words, get both the platters and the drive rotating, and then stop the drive suddenly. You can usually hear the platter rotating for a second or two after the stop if you are successful. Replace the drive and see if it works. Be prepared to make a backup of the drive before you turn it off again -- that may be the last time it works. Once they start doing this, things only get worse. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia From dave04a at dunfield.com Wed Dec 29 22:12:56 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: LF: Tektronix Model 31 Info AVL: Olivetti Programma 101parts/docs Message-ID: <20041230041255.ESNG5758.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> At 23:21 29/12/2004 +0000, you wrote: >> >> Hi Guys, >> >> Just picked up an Tektronix Model 31 desktop calculator. This is a >> fairly old (early 70s) desktop programmable with built in tape storage >> and printer. >> >> Looking for information/documenation on it - all I got was the bare >> unit (which looks to be in good shape). > >It's not much, but somewhere I have the service manual for the 4661 >plotter that was used with this machine. I think at least I could get you >a pinout of the I/O connector if that's of any interest. > >-tony Thanks Tony, If you already have it scanned, I would love a copy, however don't go to the effort of copying it just yet if you have not already done so. I am unlikely to actually use the I/O port in the near future... Btw, checked it over this afternoon and applied power - came right up and everything seems to work - even figured out how to write (and run) a short program on it! Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Wed Dec 29 23:04:27 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: DEC: System Industries 9901-6082-A In-Reply-To: <20041229194736.0186fce3.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <20041229194736.0186fce3.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:47:36 +0100, Jochen Kunz wrote: > Hi. > > I have a quad Qbus board in front of me. It is labeld "System Industries > 9901-6082-A". It has two 40 pin IDC connectors, lots of TTL, four > AMD2905, three EPROMs, the usual PALs, ... Got a couple myself, but no docs... > This is some sort of disk controler according to google. What I didn't > find out: Is this the complete controler or is this only a part of a > controler? There is a "System Industries 9900". It is a separate 19" > rack box containing a SMD (?) controler. It is interfaced to SBI or > UniBus or ??? with a bus interface card and ribbon cables. Maybe the > card I have is the QBus interface card? AFAIK, yes... you have the Qbus interface card to an SI9900 box. What you are missing is a 5.25" tall, 19" wide box with two types of cards inside, one set talks to system cards like you have (I also have one 11/750 MASSBUS card) over a pair of 40-pin ribbon cables, and the other set talks to SMD disk drives over regular SMD cables. At home, I have some SI docs, but not for the Qbus card. I got my card from a former SI engineer who had a crate of stuff in his garage from the old days. All of the docs I will have are from the days when we had an SI9900 at work with a 160MB Fuji and a Fuji Eagle hooked up to our (2MB) 11/750, so circa 1984. As I now _have_ a Qbus card, I'd love to get docs for it, at the very least, DIP switch settings. -ethan From vcf at siconic.com Thu Dec 30 00:07:13 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Commodore sold yet again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > Bah! The group that you refer to is not worth EU$24 million, plain and > > simple. > > Some of the kids that grew up playing with C64s make 24 million Euro a > year. It is not just the retro crowd, but the whole generation. So? Didn't Studebaker try to come out with a new model after 40 years? Did every baby boomer go out and buy one? > It is the name. Some names come back with incredible power (Packard-Bell > anyone?). 24 mE might actually be cheap. And some names go out with incredible ignominy (Packard-Bell anyone?) > > It is when it's used to purchase dust. > > How much does it cost to make a series of television commercials? They are > just a different marketing tool. Commodore as a brand name is meaningless today. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Dec 30 00:09:09 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Commodore sold yet again In-Reply-To: <20041230032632.31937.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Computer Collector Newsletter wrote: > For whatever it's worth, the player they're planning for April 2005 will > also play Commodore games. (Maybe via Jeri Ellsworth's technology? They > didn't specify.) Yeah, and so will every Nokia phone with integrated MP3 player and organizer. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Thu Dec 30 00:12:42 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Trying to get running an LSI 11/23 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 11:25:31 -0800 (PST), Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > 3. The Data Systems Design card has "DY:" written on the handle. > > > > DY: is the normal device name for an RX02 8" floppy. Does this card have > > a 50 pin header on it? If so, you might have got one of the cards that > > does the RX02 format on normal (SA800-series) drives, which is just what you > > want, I think. I have one of those attached to a Shugart SA-800-series drive from a Dataram-branded Qbus enclosure. It is _not_ a DSD-brand card. _Might_ be Dataram, might be some other vendor. One nice feature is that it's possible with this particular card to turn a bulk-erased disk into a formatted RX01 disk, but I'm not sure I have the instructions around anymore (the last time I did it, it was 1985 or so). In general, though, no matter what the drives a 3rd-party card can talk to, they all are presented as either an RX11/RXV11 (RX01) or RX211(?)/RXV21 (RX02) interface, down to the register level, so ordinary boot ROMs and device drivers work with them. > No, this has just a single 28-pin (dual row header) connector. I don't > recall ever seeing a disk drive with a single 28-conductor ribbon cable. The DSD stuff had odd cables, and that sounds about right. The DSD enclosure you are looking for will have one or more boards in it, and one or two SA-800-type drives inside. The boards _might_ be Z-80 based, but that also might only be the particular model I happen to have at home. There are several models of DSD drive enclosures. > > > The system powers up. There are +5V and +12V LEDs on the front of the > > > panel that come on, and I've checked these lines at the power supply and > > > they are good. One oddity: the terminal marked -12V is a perfect -0.00 on > > > my volt meter. WTF? I remember during our COMBOARD development that we had to drop on a charge-pump to our board because some Qbus enclosures did not provide -12V. You could look up the bus spec and fire that up from an external source if you need it. I'm not sure if the DLV11J in particular has to have -12V supplied (check its prints or perhaps a DEC configuratiion guide), but _our_ board did. I still have a slab of encapsulated charge pumps... ISTR we paid $17 each for them 20+ years ago. They are self-contained, 4-pin devices, about 2-3mm thick, perhaps 20mm x 30mm? Pretty much +5V and GND in, -12V out with enough current to run two sync serial ports buffered with 1488/1489 drivers/receivers. Fortunately we had plenty of room to stick the charge pump dingus on a corner of the board. -ethan From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Thu Dec 30 01:24:22 2004 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:38 2005 Subject: Maintenance Panel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002301c4ee40$95410340$4d4d2c0a@atx> > Can anyone identify the system this panel came from? > > http://sturgeon.cac.psu.edu/~mloewen/Testpanel/ > > The previous owner thought it was from a Univac mainframe, but on the > circuit side is a "HIS" marking (Honeywell Information Systems?). > Hmm, appearance seems to indicate a 60s/70s design and a 16/32-bit machine. It's a lot in the style of the Honeywell mainframes but they were mostly 36 bit - and the processor maintenance panels took-up most of a door (and they were tall doors!). Could it be a peripheral controller (probably disk) for their clone of the '360? Andy -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.6 - Release Date: 28/12/04 From ljw-cctech at ljw.me.uk Thu Dec 30 01:57:56 2004 From: ljw-cctech at ljw.me.uk (Lawrence Wilkinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Maintenance Panel In-Reply-To: <002301c4ee40$95410340$4d4d2c0a@atx> References: <002301c4ee40$95410340$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <1104393476.7498.5.camel@ljw.me.uk> On Thu, 2004-12-30 at 07:24, Andy Holt wrote: > > Can anyone identify the system this panel came from? > > > > http://sturgeon.cac.psu.edu/~mloewen/Testpanel/ > > > > The previous owner thought it was from a Univac mainframe, but on the > > circuit side is a "HIS" marking (Honeywell Information Systems?). > > > > Hmm, appearance seems to indicate a 60s/70s design and a 16/32-bit machine. > > It's a lot in the style of the Honeywell mainframes but they were mostly 36 > bit - and the processor maintenance panels took-up most of a door (and they > were tall doors!). > > Could it be a peripheral controller (probably disk) for their clone of the > '360? I was going to suggest something like this: http://home.the-wire.com/~mwilson/his/DSS170.html (Honeywell version of the IBM 2314) but 16k microcode seems a lot for a disk controller and I don't see why it would need to be 16-bit. -- Lawrence Wilkinson lawrence@ljw.me.uk The IBM 360/30 page http://www.ljw.me.uk/ibm360 From quapla at xs4all.nl Thu Dec 30 02:41:12 2004 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (quapla@xs4all.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Cray CS6400 CD on epay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13531.192.18.240.11.1104396072.squirrel@192.18.240.11> VTS is the verification suitte for Sun HW. It is used when a new system is to be 'burned in'. This is most likely a specialized version for the predecessor of the E10000 machine. Nowadays this package is part of the standard distro's. Ed > Don't know what it is but those with Cray CS6400s might be interested. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5113304032&rd > =1 > > Paxton > Astoria, OR > From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Dec 30 03:08:12 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Reviving old hard drives In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 29 Dec 2004 20:11:06 EST." Message-ID: <200412300908.JAA18377@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, bob_lafleu said: > Is there a repository of information regarding reviving old hard drives? > > Specifically, I have a Seagate ST3390N in a Mac Iici that appeard not to > spin-up anymore. I'm wondering if there are any "tricks" that might get this > drive running again? It's got my running copy of Opcode Vision on it, and > I've not found any newer MIDI sequencing software that runs on current > systems that I'm more comfortablr with... I'd love to get my Vision running > again! The 20Mb drive in my SE (sorry, I forget the make of drive) failed the same way. I ended up freezing it overnight then giving the drive a *hard* rotational flick in the direction of the platter spin and it worked long enough for me to copy the data off. It didn't keep working long, but it was enough to save the data. On dismantling the drive I found that the grease on the platter spindle had gone rock hard with age - this happened to an old full-height drive in my AT too. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Thu Dec 30 03:41:21 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Problems with my PDP 11/24 (was:Question about memory boards used n VAX 11/7xx) In-Reply-To: References: <200412291514.iBTFDZsi006241@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:05:57 +0100 (CET), Johnny Billquist wrote: > Actually, the memory system in a VAX-11/750 are specific to that model. > It's not compatible with the VAX-11/780, nor the 11/730. Are you sure about that? I recall using the same 1MB boards in an 11/750 and and 11/730. If you tell me I'm mistaken, then I probably am, but that's what I remember. > However, the memory backplane is compatible with the MK11 memory box for > the PDP-11/70. Unfortunately, the MK11 controller only deals with 256Kb > memory boards. So if you'd like to use these 1 Mb memory boards in an > 11/70, you need a small hardware hack, and a small software hack. Hmm... I _didn't_ know that (the trick... I did suspect that the 256K boards were intercompatible). > The hardware hack is to tie four board select lines from the backplane > into to address lines for the memory card, and the software hack is to > reset all the ECC bits in the high 768K of each card, since the MK11 > controller only clears ECC on the low 256K. Hmm... that's an interesting hack... I wonder if anyone has ever tweaked 2BSD for that. As I _have_ two full-boat (4MB) 11/70s, it would only matter if I wanted to chew up less power by running 4 boards (especially 4 3rd-party boards w/256kbit chips) rather than 16 boards w/4116 16kbit chips. OTOH, I'd have to _find_ 4 1MB boards beyond the ones I already have. -ethan From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Dec 30 05:13:57 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Commodore sold yet again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > And some names go out with incredible ignominy (Packard-Bell anyone?) But you have to admit - the "new" Packard-Bell sold one hell of a bunch of machines ten years ago. Whoever bought that brand name picked a winner. I bet they managed to get more than 24 mE worth of marketting out of it. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From Pres at macro-inc.com Thu Dec 30 05:49:11 2004 From: Pres at macro-inc.com (Ed Kelleher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: What are terminals worth? In-Reply-To: References: <20041229203626.6E5B148A0@spies.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041230064527.028003d0@192.168.0.1> At 05:21 PM 12/29/2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >Speaking of which (kinda) I've got a dead VT105. What is a VT105? Was it >just a VT100 made to go with the PDP 11/05? It looks just like a VT100. According to the manual, it's a graphics display terminal. A special "function generator" module let it display pre-set things such as: bar graphs, strip charts, histograms and horizontal and vertical lines as built in functions. Was superceded by the VT125 a more general purpose graphics display terminal. Ed K. From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Thu Dec 30 06:40:57 2004 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Maintenance Panel In-Reply-To: <1104393476.7498.5.camel@ljw.me.uk> Message-ID: <001601c4ee6c$cf92ce80$4d4d2c0a@atx> > I was going to suggest something like this: > http://home.the-wire.com/~mwilson/his/DSS170.html > (Honeywell version of the IBM 2314) but 16k microcode seems a lot for a > disk controller and I don't see why it would need to be 16-bit. > -- > Lawrence Wilkinson Perhaps - ICL computers used their own "PF56" which was a 16-bit design for controlling EDS30s and EDS60s (and as a comms processor). [from the diameter of the paper-tape reel used to load the software on one of these I would expect the code size to be between 4K and 8K bytes ... but it would also need a fair amount of buffer space] However, I would have expected Honeywell's inclination at the time would have been to use a variation on the Datanet (which was an 18-bit processor) on the 600/6000/level66. Andy -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.6 - Release Date: 28/12/04 From h.j.stegeman at hccnet.nl Thu Dec 30 06:52:02 2004 From: h.j.stegeman at hccnet.nl (Henk Stegeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Defective IBM core memory by frost. Message-ID: <000801c4ee6e$5db25cc0$8106a8c0@dordt.nl> Hi, I am a happy owner of a IBM System/3. This system was standing unpacked in my garage for more then 10 years waiting to be put back into service. If was stored in perfect working condition. Last week I started to restore my old IBM system/3 to working condition. After solving several problems in the power up sequence the system was ready to be IPL-ed. Immediately I had a processor check. Checks lights indicated storage problems. After investigation I discovered that the several X wires on the core planes where open. These wires are mounted by IBM on a square frame. During a heavy forst period (I live in the Netherlands) while standing in a unheated garage the copper X wires shrink and broke. About 20% of the X wires are broken. None of the Y wires (???). These planes are stacked on top of eachother by IBM and the X/Y wire terminals are welded together. This makes the planes non-accessible to repair the open wires. I now have 2 unit (each 32k) both located in the system defective beyond repair and idem a spare unit of 16k. Any one who has such IBM storage unit available to bring my IBM S/3 back to live...? See http://home.hccnet.nl/h.j.stegeman/32kBSM.jpg Regards Henk Stegeman From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Dec 30 06:55:27 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Reviving old hard drives In-Reply-To: <41D36FC4.1040106@eoni.com> References: <41D36FC4.1040106@eoni.com> Message-ID: <1104411327.7689.10.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-12-29 at 19:02 -0800, Jim Arnott wrote: > 9000 VAX wrote: > > >On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 20:11:06 -0500, Bob Lafleur > > wrote: > > > > > >>Is there a repository of information regarding reviving old hard drives? > >> > >>Specifically, I have a Seagate ST3390N in a Mac Iici that appeard not to > >>spin-up anymore. I'm wondering if there are any "tricks" that might get this > >>drive running again? It's got my running copy of Opcode Vision on it, and > >>I've not found any newer MIDI sequencing software that runs on current > >>systems that I'm more comfortablr with... I'd love to get my Vision running > >>again! > >> > >> > >If the circuit board is defective, you might want to find another > >ST3390N and replace the circuit board. Other than that, I have no idea > >how a hard drive could be repaired. > > > >vax, 9000 > > > > > First the caveat... YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY! > > Two tricks: > > Trick the first: smack it against your palm. Fairly forcefully. > Trick the second: Place it in the freezer for a couple of hours. I tend to use a pan of icy water on top of the drive rather than the freezer trick. I'm kind of wary of putting a drive in the freezer where it can attract moisture... Sometimes I've had luck the other way too; pre-heating the drive using a hairdryer. > Bonus trick: Data recovery services. If the data is really valuable. > Cost could easily be in the hundreds of dollars. Another bonus last-resort trick is to pull the lid on the drive and get the platters spinning 'by hand' - just don't touch the data surfaces, and there's no guarantee as to how long the drive will keep going (don't run the drive open obviously - in fact some drives won't even run up to speed when open). Copy data off, then chuck the drive. Someone told me of a drive they ran completely open for a couple of weeks for giggles before it finally crashed. From shoppa_classiccmp at trailing-edge.com Thu Dec 30 07:36:12 2004 From: shoppa_classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (shoppa_classiccmp@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41D4044C.nailNN11FPT4@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> >> One, carbon composition vs. film resistors. > Seem to me that these are just crummy, underrated film types. Not really true. The manufacturing process and resistor structure is fundamentally different. Film resistors are generally an insulating core, with spirals of the resistive stuff (thickness, width, and material depend on the resistance of course) around the core. Then there's a protective coating and marking around the outside. There are a few applications where the spiral structure has undesired inductive effects. But then there are different varieties of metal films, some specifically low inductance. If you price out new carbon composition resistors, you'll know they're different than metal films. Quarter-watt metal-films are less than a penny each in quantity (1000 or 5000 typically). Carbon compositions are twenty-five cents each in quantity. I get the impression that the metal-film manufacturing process has seen all the benefits of manufacturing technology over the past few decades, while the carbon composition process has had no improvement for like fifty years. Mass-produced 0.1% metal film resistors are cheaper than 10% carbon composition units. > Composition resistors also are not stable. They drift over time. All resistors drift over time :-). I will admit that carbon compositions are much more drifty with respect to just about everything (time, temperature, heat cycling, humidity, phase of the moon, etc.) Tim. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Dec 30 07:39:11 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Trying to get running an LSI 11/23 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041230143911.4c6e17e9.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 01:12:42 -0500 Ethan Dicks wrote: > I have one of those attached to a Shugart SA-800-series drive from a > Dataram-branded Qbus enclosure. It is _not_ a DSD-brand card. > _Might_ be Dataram, might be some other vendor. One nice feature is > that it's possible with this particular card to turn a bulk-erased > disk into a formatted RX01 disk, but I'm not sure I have the > instructions around anymore I have a RX02 clone with SA800 interface. It starts a low level format when this commands are entered at the VAX chevron prompt: Single density (RX01) d/p/w 20001E78 9 d/p/w 20001E7A 92 Double density (RX02) d/p/w 20001E78 109 d/p/w 20001E7A 92 -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Dec 30 07:57:14 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: DEC: System Industries 9901-6082-A In-Reply-To: References: <20041229194736.0186fce3.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20041230145714.591ee28a.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:04:27 -0500 Ethan Dicks wrote: > AFAIK, yes... you have the Qbus interface card to an SI9900 box. OK. This card is useless for me as I don't have the actual conroler. I am looking for a R[KMP] disk emulating UniBus controler for SMD disks. (I have several SMD disks without UniBus controler and a dead RK07 drive...) Maybe I will give this card to a friend. He has a PDP-11/34 with a SI9900. Maybe he can use it with a QBus PDP-11 or a MicroVAX to "warm up" his PDP-11/34. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From richard.beaudry at gmail.com Thu Dec 30 08:09:04 2004 From: richard.beaudry at gmail.com (Richard Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Powermac 8100/80 RAM question Message-ID: Hello all, I have a Powermac 8100/80 that needs a RAM upgrade. Lowendmac.com says that it can handle 72-pin SIMMs, up to 32MB each. My question is this: does it take the same 72-pin SIMMs as a PC, or does it require special "mac-only" SIMMs? Google only showed people still selling the RAM (for outrageous prices), and I couldn't get actual specs on the RAM itself. Thanks for any help .... BTW, the 8100 was introduce in early 1994, so I think I'm actually on topic! :-) Rich B. From pat at computer-refuge.org Thu Dec 30 08:24:06 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Powermac 8100/80 RAM question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200412300924.07014.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Thursday 30 December 2004 09:09, Richard Beaudry wrote: > Hello all, > > I have a Powermac 8100/80 that needs a RAM upgrade. Lowendmac.com > says that it can handle 72-pin SIMMs, up to 32MB each. My question > is this: does it take the same 72-pin SIMMs as a PC, or does it > require special "mac-only" SIMMs? Google only showed people still > selling the RAM (for outrageous prices), and I couldn't get actual > specs on the RAM itself. > > Thanks for any help .... > > BTW, the 8100 was introduce in early 1994, so I think I'm actually on > topic! :-) It's designed to use non-parity SIMMs, but parity ones (from a PC) should work as well. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From cb at mythtech.net Thu Dec 30 09:04:43 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Powermac 8100/80 RAM question Message-ID: >I have a Powermac 8100/80 that needs a RAM upgrade. Lowendmac.com >says that it can handle 72-pin SIMMs, up to 32MB each. My question is >this: does it take the same 72-pin SIMMs as a PC, or does it require >special "mac-only" SIMMs? Google only showed people still selling the >RAM (for outrageous prices), and I couldn't get actual specs on the >RAM itself. Plain old cheap PC simms work fine. If you can, get non-parity as that was what it really called for, but I have successfully used parity in any mac I've tried (that require 72 pin simms that is... 30 pin ones will NOT work with parity for the most part... there are a few exceptions like the version of the IIci that was specifically designed TO use parity, as well as IIRC, some of the last models to use 30 pin would work with either style). You should be able to pick them up cheap from enough places. One thing in your favor... the Mac isn't very picky about matched simms, so you may be able to buy a bunch from somewhere like 18004memory.com that sells unmatched parts pretty cheap in their clearance section. -chris From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Dec 29 19:36:15 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Reviving old hard drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <062e29254d.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message "Bob Lafleur" wrote: > Is there a repository of information regarding reviving old hard drives? > > Specifically, I have a Seagate ST3390N in a Mac Iici that appeard not to > spin-up anymore. I'm wondering if there are any "tricks" that might get this > drive running again? It's got my running copy of Opcode Vision on it, and > I've not found any newer MIDI sequencing software that runs on current > systems that I'm more comfortablr with... I'd love to get my Vision running > again! You could try the "freezer trick" - put the drive in an airtight container (I usually use a Zip-lock bag), then freeze it overnight. Hook it up to the machine and get the data off onto another drive post-haste. This trick will most likely only work once. There's also a trick to de-stick drives that are suffering from sticktion. I can't remember the details though, but IIRC it involves holding the drive so that the long edges are horizontal, then move your wrist quite sharply. The idea is to force the head actuator (usually a voice-coil) to move. After resurrecting the drive, get the data off ASAP. I usually do a file copy to get the important stuff off, then use Ghost to clone the drive to an image file on another drive (assuming the drive is still operating at this point). Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Copywight 1994 Elmer Fudd. All wights wesewved From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Dec 30 09:37:37 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Powermac 8100/80 RAM question In-Reply-To: Richard Beaudry "Powermac 8100/80 RAM question" (Dec 30, 9:09) References: Message-ID: <10412301537.ZM19975@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 30 2004, 9:09, Richard Beaudry wrote: > Hello all, > > I have a Powermac 8100/80 that needs a RAM upgrade. Lowendmac.com > says that it can handle 72-pin SIMMs, up to 32MB each. My question is > this: does it take the same 72-pin SIMMs as a PC, or does it require > special "mac-only" SIMMs? Google only showed people still selling the > RAM (for outrageous prices), and I couldn't get actual specs on the > RAM itself. Ordinary PC-type 72-pin SIMMs should be fine, but I think you need Fast Page Mode rather than EDO. You don't need parity, but it will do no harm if you have 36-bit SIMMs instead of 32-bit. lowendmac mentions 80ns, so 70ns or 60ns will also do. I bought 4 x 32MB SIMMs about 4 weeks ago on eBay for an SGI, which wants FPM+parity and gold contacts; it was quite cheap (under $20). The same seller had quite a lot that was non-parity, and he even mentioned Apples. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From cb at mythtech.net Thu Dec 30 09:51:57 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Powermac 8100/80 RAM question Message-ID: >Ordinary PC-type 72-pin SIMMs should be fine, but I think you need Fast >Page Mode rather than EDO. Based on my findings, I've yet to run into a Mac that can't use EDO. Some require EDO, but so far, all the ones I've played with that are supposed to use FPM, work just fine with EDO instead. (note: I have never upgraded an 8100, so for all I know, that could be the one model that really does care). Again, this is based on 72 pin SIMMs. It seems that Apple's 72 pin SIMM requirements were pretty loose compared to their other memory requirements. -chris From aek at spies.com Thu Dec 30 10:01:04 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Powermac 8100/80 RAM question Message-ID: <20041230160104.C94F44C88@spies.com> Some require EDO -- No systems that shipped used EDO. We went from FPM to SDRAM. From cb at mythtech.net Thu Dec 30 10:25:52 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Powermac 8100/80 RAM question Message-ID: >No systems that shipped used EDO. We went from FPM to SDRAM. Not entirely accurate... although the ones I was thinking of don't use EDO anyway (my memory told me the 660AV and 840AV required EDO memory installed in pairs... I just looked it up and it appears I'm wrong, they don't care). However, there ARE Macs that require EDO (according to Apple), but upon looking that up, it looks like it may only be DIMM based machines, so it still wouldn't apply to this instance (where I said there were some that required EDO 72 pin SIMMs). So you are correct, it appears that there are no 72 pin simm based units that require EDO, however, EDO is required in some Macs that use DIMMs (which as everyone knows is NOT the same thing as SDRAM). Specifically, the 4400, 5500, and 6500 require EDO... and the 7200 can NOT use EDO, in fact there is a note saying it may damage the machine. The rest can use FMP or EDO simms or dimms (according to the same chart, the 8100, the system in question, wants FMP but will use EDO as FMP if EDO are installed... which is consistant with what I have found of any other 72 pin SIMM mac I've upgraded) -chris From vcf at siconic.com Thu Dec 30 11:11:31 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Commodore sold yet again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > And some names go out with incredible ignominy (Packard-Bell anyone?) > > But you have to admit - the "new" Packard-Bell sold one hell of a bunch of > machines ten years ago. Whoever bought that brand name picked a winner. I > bet they managed to get more than 24 mE worth of marketting out of it. I am not swayed by your logic. :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From marvin at rain.org Thu Dec 30 11:20:08 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Reviving old hard drives Message-ID: <41D438C8.59A6F66C@rain.org> I've talked to the engineers at DMA Systems (removeable HD mfg that was bought out by Ricoh?) and they indicated they would test run their drives with no cover (in an open room, not a clean room.) The caveat was to not be in a dusty or dirty environment. I've done what Jules mentions and it works well! I did that on a HD just to see what would happen ... nothing, and it worked fine for another couple of years after I put the cover back on. There is usually a filter inside the (older?) disk drives and I *think* it will clean out any dust that got in the drive while the cover was off. > Jules Richardson wrote: > > Another bonus last-resort trick is to pull the lid on the drive and get > the platters spinning 'by hand' - just don't touch the data surfaces, > and there's no guarantee as to how long the drive will keep going (don't > run the drive open obviously - in fact some drives won't even run up to > speed when open). Copy data off, then chuck the drive. Someone told me > of a drive they ran completely open for a couple of weeks for giggles > before it finally crashed. From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Dec 30 11:22:52 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Commodore sold yet again In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Dec 30, 04 09:11:31 am Message-ID: <200412301722.MAA27033@wordstock.com> Now if the new device coming out in April can play SID music, I may be tempted to buy one. :) Cheers, Bryan Pope From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Dec 30 11:34:02 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Commodore sold yet again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041230121744.050d49e0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that William Donzelli may have mentioned these words: > > Bah! The group that you refer to is not worth EU$24 million, plain and > > simple. > >Some of the kids that grew up playing with C64s make 24 million Euro a >year. It is not just the retro crowd, but the whole generation. Who wants to restart all the advocacy wars? Could you actually see all of us around the shuffleboard court at the old-age home, *still* arguing about which platform was best (or beaten to death)? * Eh, I see that Atari finally licensed Combat for the 2600 yet again, and I'm running it on my 66.08 ExaHertz Amtel Pentathon 77 in an emulator, and it's almost like the real thing! : What? Only ancient Fuddyduddies run Atari. They weren't as good as my great-grandma, and she farts dust! Commodore just came out with their Vic20/C64/128/Amiga4000T joystick, and let me tell you, *those* games are where it's at, even 60 years later. Of course, I can't remember how to play any of them, and threw my back out picking up that durned joystick... =-=-= :-) Admittedly, if there's enough stupid people on this planet that they can actually make money, more power to 'em; but I'm with Sellam on this one. >It is the name. Some names come back with incredible power (Packard-Bell >anyone?). You call that *power* -- They were pitiful to begin with, and the few machines I've seen now (I've heard they teamed with NEC for the Canadian market, but I've only seen one or two of those machines, and they're still *junk*) -- Their one big "hurrah" was getting in with Walmart - but even then they went bankrupt due to their cheap crap. How many people get misty-eyed over a Packard-Hell? No-one I know -- and if the new purchasers of Commodore pull the same crap Packard-Hell has, they'll alienate the few remaining diehards that're left... It's sometimes better to save face and die a dignified death... ;-) > 24 mE might actually be cheap. 24 milli-Euroes is about all I'd have considered for it. ;-) >Get into the mind of a marketting boob. Do that, and you may never get out with your sanity intact... ;-) Happy Hollydaze, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers _??_ zmerch@30below.com (?||?) If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead _)(_ disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From aek at spies.com Thu Dec 30 12:13:45 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Powermac 8100/80 RAM question Message-ID: <20041230181345.E98EC4CB3@spies.com> > however, EDO is required in some Macs that use DIMMs You are correct.. There is actually a pretty good description of which and why here: http://www.macgurus.com/products/motherboards/mbppc6400.php I had forgotten about the late Alchemy designs with soldered down EDO RAM. From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Dec 30 12:44:45 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Powermac 8100/80 RAM question In-Reply-To: <200412300924.07014.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200412300924.07014.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <41D44C9D.90002@mdrconsult.com> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Thursday 30 December 2004 09:09, Richard Beaudry wrote: > >>Hello all, >> >>I have a Powermac 8100/80 that needs a RAM upgrade. Lowendmac.com >>says that it can handle 72-pin SIMMs, up to 32MB each. My question >>is this: does it take the same 72-pin SIMMs as a PC, or does it >>require special "mac-only" SIMMs? Google only showed people still >>selling the RAM (for outrageous prices), and I couldn't get actual >>specs on the RAM itself. >> >>Thanks for any help .... >> >>BTW, the 8100 was introduce in early 1994, so I think I'm actually on >>topic! :-) > > > It's designed to use non-parity SIMMs, but parity ones (from a PC) > should work as well. Should, and do. I just gave away a PM8100 a couple of months ago. It had 36-bit NEC 8MB SIMMs in it. Doc From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Dec 30 10:33:12 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Commodore sold yet again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041230102257.0547f9c8@mail> At 07:39 PM 12/29/2004, you wrote: >On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> http://www.ann.lu/detail.cgi?category=news&file=1104276545.msg >> Tulip Computers announce the sale of Commodore to the American >> Yeahronimo Media Ventures for 24 million Euro. Click 'read more' for >> a Babelfish translation of the original article. > >24 MILLION Euro? FOR WHAT? Commodore means NOTHING commercially anymore. >It's a god damn pyramid scheme at this point. Each new owner hoping to >find an even more naive buyer than they were. Who knows how Gareth translated it... it's quite poorly worded. And it's a press release for goodness sake, translated from Dutch to English. It may be obscuring the truth. Did they pay real money up front? Is Tulip getting payments over time? Is that what the third paragraph is trying to say? What's with the "subsidiary" talk in the first paragraph? There are so many trust fund babies who've inherited fortunes larger than they could squander in decades, you never know who wants to wish-fulfill and why. Geeks always want things to make sense, for the technologically superior gizmo to win. Doesn't work that way. If someone believes their luck and skill will improve by buying an old trademark, perhaps they'll pay. - John From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Dec 30 12:51:42 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Commodore sold yet again In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041230102257.0547f9c8@mail> from John Foust at "Dec 30, 4 10:33:12 am" Message-ID: <200412301851.KAA12550@floodgap.com> > Who knows how Gareth translated it... it's quite poorly worded. > And it's a press release for goodness sake, translated from > Dutch to English. It may be obscuring the truth. Did they > pay real money up front? Is Tulip getting payments over time? I don't know about anything up front, but the total 24x10^6 EUR isn't due in full until 2010. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Either he's dead, or my watch has stopped. -- Groucho Marx ----------------- From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Dec 30 12:53:47 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Powermac 8100/80 RAM question In-Reply-To: <20041230181345.E98EC4CB3@spies.com> from Al Kossow at "Dec 30, 4 10:13:45 am" Message-ID: <200412301853.KAA12406@floodgap.com> > > however, EDO is required in some Macs that use DIMMs > > You are correct.. There is actually a pretty good description of which > and why here: > http://www.macgurus.com/products/motherboards/mbppc6400.php > I had forgotten about the late Alchemy designs with soldered down EDO RAM. Heh, I'd forgotten about those. I do find that the general rule of thumb (when in doubt on old Macs, use FPM) tends to be true. All of my non-SDRAM Macs (my 7100, 7300, ANS ...) use FPM. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Death to spammers! http://spam.abuse.net/spam/ ----------------------------- From cb at mythtech.net Thu Dec 30 12:59:31 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Noisy profile hard drive Message-ID: I've got someone asking me about a Profile hard drive in a Lisa 2/10. He says it makes a loud screaming noise when it is running. Maybe bad bearings? Anyone seen this with the Profile drives? Any idea if it is fatal? Any idea if it can be repaired? Any advise I can pass on would be great. -chris From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Dec 30 12:57:20 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Commodore sold yet again In-Reply-To: <200412301851.KAA12550@floodgap.com> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20041230102257.0547f9c8@mail> <200412301851.KAA12550@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041230125541.051c1070@mail> At 12:51 PM 12/30/2004, Cameron Kaiser wrote: >I don't know about anything up front, but the total 24x10^6 EUR isn't >due in full until 2010. And the English press release mentioned later in the thread makes it more clear that it's only a subsidiary of Tulip that's buying these rights. They can balance the payments any way their accountants will let them. This "price" isn't quite the same as someone walking up with a stack of bills. (But given the massively out-of-order sequence that I receive this mailing list, who knows.) - John From tpeters at mixcom.com Thu Dec 30 13:06:04 2004 From: tpeters at mixcom.com (Tom Peters) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Apple II DOS manuals In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041229144739.0af70950@localhost> References: <20041229181327.66202.qmail@web52803.mail.yahoo.com> <20041229181327.66202.qmail@web52803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041230130517.0b404038@localhost> Item number: 5152835484 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5152835484 At 02:50 PM 12/29/2004 -0600, you wrote: >I'm going to post my old Apple II manuals for sale on ePay. No job. Need >$. Hope someone bites. > ># Apple II: The DOS Manual ># Apple //: DOS Programmer's Manual (for II, II+, //e) ># Apple //: DOS User's Manual (for II, II+, //e) > >One of them is in the original shrink wrap. All are perfect, unmarked. > >Wish me luck. > > > > > >[Computing] I have been told that _Introduction to Objectivist >Epistemology_ was required reading at the Xerox PARC lab where OOP >was invented, but this may be merely an urban legend. -- >wilcoxb@cs.colorado.edu (Bryce Wilcox) >--... ...-- -.. . -. ----. --.- --.- -... >tpeters@nospam.mixcom.com (remove "nospam") N9QQB (amateur radio) >"HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB ADDRESS http//www.mixweb.com/tpeters >43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square EN53wc >WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, Cisco Certified CCNA > > > > > Nothing improves your memory like trying to forget. --... ...-- -.. . -. ----. --.- --.- -... tpeters@nospam.mixcom.com (remove "nospam") N9QQB (amateur radio) "HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB ADDRESS http//www.mixweb.com/tpeters 43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square EN53wc WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, Cisco Certified CCNA From tpeters at mixcom.com Thu Dec 30 13:01:29 2004 From: tpeters at mixcom.com (Tom Peters) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Powermac 8100/80 RAM question In-Reply-To: <10412301537.ZM19975@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041230130103.0c51c0c8@localhost> I have lots of old 72-pin SIMMs laying around. What are you looking for? At 03:37 PM 12/30/2004 +0000, you wrote: >On Dec 30 2004, 9:09, Richard Beaudry wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > I have a Powermac 8100/80 that needs a RAM upgrade. Lowendmac.com > > says that it can handle 72-pin SIMMs, up to 32MB each. My question >is > > this: does it take the same 72-pin SIMMs as a PC, or does it require > > special "mac-only" SIMMs? Google only showed people still selling >the > > RAM (for outrageous prices), and I couldn't get actual specs on the > > RAM itself. > >Ordinary PC-type 72-pin SIMMs should be fine, but I think you need Fast >Page Mode rather than EDO. You don't need parity, but it will do no >harm if you have 36-bit SIMMs instead of 32-bit. lowendmac mentions >80ns, so 70ns or 60ns will also do. I bought 4 x 32MB SIMMs about 4 >weeks ago on eBay for an SGI, which wants FPM+parity and gold contacts; >it was quite cheap (under $20). The same seller had quite a lot that >was non-parity, and he even mentioned Apples. > > >-- >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York C?ad Mile F?ilte (C?ad Mile F ilte)(kaid MEE-la fall-cha), Gaelic: "One Hundred Thousand Welcomes!" --... ...-- -.. . -. ----. --.- --.- -... tpeters@nospam.mixcom.com (remove "nospam") N9QQB (amateur radio) "HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB ADDRESS http//www.mixweb.com/tpeters 43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square EN53wc WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, Cisco Certified CCNA From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Dec 30 10:53:26 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: What are terminals worth? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20041230105116.05183a20@mail> At 05:42 PM 12/29/2004, Tony Duell wrote: >No, it's a VT100 with a 'function generator' board in it. This board adds >the ability to plot mathematical functions -- for each column of the >display (that's dot column, mot character column), you can set store 2 Y >values. >Incidentally, a VT55 is a VT52 with a similar graphics display capability. Ah, my first real introduction to computer graphics. I tried very hard, in BASIC, to write a library of routines to draw small numbers of arbitrary lines using that two-dot-vertical graphics mode. Those dots were so nice and small compared to character-oriented graphics. - John From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Dec 30 13:16:23 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Noisy profile hard drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, chris wrote: > I've got someone asking me about a Profile hard drive in a Lisa 2/10. He > says it makes a loud screaming noise when it is running. Maybe bad > bearings? 72 years ago, I was in charge of an early 3Com LAN, with drives in stacked 'shoeboxes'. I came in one Monday morning to find one of the drives making this thin 'shrieking' noise. I of course did a panic shutdown and got the Vendor rolling - turns out that it was the Absolute Filter on top of the drive case making the same kind of noise that one makes by blowing across a piece of taut paper. The tech just pressed down on the aluminum cover at the edge of the filter 'pod' and that fixed it. I was sure the heads had crashed, but somehow the system was still running - though I couldn't see how, since it sounded like the heads were milling the platters into expensive red dust. Maybe this is what's happening here?? Cheers and Happy NuYeer to all and sundry! John From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Dec 30 13:30:52 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Noisy profile hard drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1104435052.7689.27.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-12-30 at 14:16 -0500, John Lawson wrote: > > On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, chris wrote: > > > I've got someone asking me about a Profile hard drive in a Lisa 2/10. He > > says it makes a loud screaming noise when it is running. Maybe bad > > bearings? > > > 72 years ago, I was in charge of an early 3Com LAN, with drives in > stacked 'shoeboxes'. I came in one Monday morning to find one of the > drives making this thin 'shrieking' noise. > > I of course did a panic shutdown and got the Vendor rolling - turns out > that it was the Absolute Filter on top of the drive case making the same > kind of noise that one makes by blowing across a piece of taut paper. The > tech just pressed down on the aluminum cover at the edge of the filter > 'pod' and that fixed it. > > I was sure the heads had crashed, but somehow the system was still > running - though I couldn't see how, since it sounded like the heads were > milling the platters into expensive red dust. Nice story - first time I've heard that. Other end of the scale, I've had a drive in a Whitechapel make a noise like this before and it lasted about ten minutes on the bench before the heads went crunch. I've also got a Rodime drive (32MB I think) for a BBC micro that screams - only the scream comes and goes, plus changes in pitch. Sounds very like bare metal on metal contact, but the drive ran for long enough to copy data across to a replacement (and is still running, I just don't have any call to use it) Personally I'd back up that Profile drive if there's critical data on it (if there's a way!) and be looking for a replacement drive... (can Profiles use anything other than an ST506?) cheers Jules From lbickley at bickleywest.com Thu Dec 30 13:34:27 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Noisy profile hard drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200412301134.27356.lbickley@bickleywest.com> On Thursday 30 December 2004 11:16, John Lawson wrote: > On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, chris wrote: > > I've got someone asking me about a Profile hard drive in a Lisa 2/10. He > > says it makes a loud screaming noise when it is running. Maybe bad > > bearings? > > 72 years ago, I was in charge of an early 3Com LAN, with drives in > stacked 'shoeboxes'. I came in one Monday morning to find one of the > drives making this thin 'shrieking' noise. > > I of course did a panic shutdown and got the Vendor rolling - turns out > that it was the Absolute Filter on top of the drive case making the same > kind of noise that one makes by blowing across a piece of taut paper. The > tech just pressed down on the aluminum cover at the edge of the filter > 'pod' and that fixed it. > > I was sure the heads had crashed, but somehow the system was still > running - though I couldn't see how, since it sounded like the heads were > milling the platters into expensive red dust. > > Maybe this is what's happening here?? > > > Cheers and Happy NuYeer to all and sundry! > > John -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From lbickley at bickleywest.com Thu Dec 30 13:35:28 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Noisy profile hard drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200412301135.28448.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Since 3COM was founded in 1979, I don't think you were working on 3COM 72 years ago ;-) Lyle On Thursday 30 December 2004 11:16, John Lawson wrote: > On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, chris wrote: > > I've got someone asking me about a Profile hard drive in a Lisa 2/10. He > > says it makes a loud screaming noise when it is running. Maybe bad > > bearings? > > 72 years ago, I was in charge of an early 3Com LAN, with drives in > stacked 'shoeboxes'. I came in one Monday morning to find one of the > drives making this thin 'shrieking' noise. > > I of course did a panic shutdown and got the Vendor rolling - turns out > that it was the Absolute Filter on top of the drive case making the same > kind of noise that one makes by blowing across a piece of taut paper. The > tech just pressed down on the aluminum cover at the edge of the filter > 'pod' and that fixed it. > > I was sure the heads had crashed, but somehow the system was still > running - though I couldn't see how, since it sounded like the heads were > milling the platters into expensive red dust. > > Maybe this is what's happening here?? > > > Cheers and Happy NuYeer to all and sundry! > > John -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Dec 30 13:40:44 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Noisy profile hard drive In-Reply-To: <1104435052.7689.27.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1104435052.7689.27.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > > I've also got a Rodime drive (32MB I think) for a BBC micro that screams > - only the scream comes and goes, plus changes in pitch. Sounds very > like bare metal on metal contact, but the drive ran for long enough to > copy data across to a replacement (and is still running, I just don't > have any call to use it) This was precisely the symptoms and, if fading memory can reconstruct, those were Rodimes as well, though I have heard of 'whistling filter' syndrome on a couple of other occasions - mostly on full-height multi-platter 5" drives. And a hearty 'ditto!' on backing-up: ya never know.... Cheers John From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Dec 30 14:26:52 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: <41D4044C.nailNN11FPT4@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: > Not really true. The manufacturing process and resistor structure > is fundamentally different. Film resistors are generally an insulating > core, with spirals of the resistive stuff (thickness, width, and material > depend on the resistance of course) around the core. Then there's a > protective coating and marking around the outside. > > There are a few applications where the spiral structure has undesired > inductive effects. But then there are different varieties of metal films, > some specifically low inductance. If a film resistor is spec'd to work at 600 Volts, and it is having some problems up there, I would say it's crummy. > I get the impression that the metal-film manufacturing process has seen > all the benefits of manufacturing technology over the past few decades, > while the carbon composition process has had no improvement for like > fifty years. Mass-produced 0.1% metal film resistors are cheaper than > 10% carbon composition units. Yes, I agree. Carbon comp resistors are pretty much a dead technology. > All resistors drift over time :-). I will admit that carbon compositions > are much more drifty with respect to just about everything > (time, temperature, heat cycling, humidity, phase > of the moon, etc.) It is quite common (seen it with my own eyes, too) for a 40 year old carbon comp resistor to drift over 20 percent, and that even includes the five percent versions. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Dec 30 14:29:35 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Commodore sold yet again In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041230121744.050d49e0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: > You call that *power* -- They were pitiful to begin with, and the few > machines I've seen now (I've heard they teamed with NEC for the Canadian > market, but I've only seen one or two of those machines, and they're still > *junk*) -- Their one big "hurrah" was getting in with Walmart - but even > then they went bankrupt due to their cheap crap. > > How many people get misty-eyed over a Packard-Hell? No-one I know -- and if > the new purchasers of Commodore pull the same crap Packard-Hell has, > they'll alienate the few remaining diehards that're left... Well, I never said they were anything more than junk. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From dhbarr at gmail.com Wed Dec 29 16:24:12 2004 From: dhbarr at gmail.com (David H. Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Fwd: Paperclip Computer Book In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Continuing my trend of top-posting, forwarded-to-personal-addresses naughtiness in search of a copy of this book. Was anyone able to find a copy? If not I can make the 200 mile drive to the nearest (supposed) copy and see how liberal the library allows me to be with my laptop and scanner. On further archive scans, I noted that some may have documentation (brochures, manuals, etc.) for the commercial model (ct-650) or photos of finished systems. I am interested in obtaining copies of ANY related material.) TIA, -dhbarr. PS: Sorry about doubly forwarding the list. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: David H. Barr Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 15:05:45 -0600 Subject: Paperclip Computer Book To: design.fort@ns.sympatico.ca Greetings! What ever happened with your project listed on: http://www.computermuseum.20m.com/alcosser.htm? Do you still have the book? I'm interested in building one of these things myself, but I have NEVER been able to find a complete copy of the book. Please respond, even if it is decidedly in the negative. Thanks in Advance, -dhbarr. From gtn at rbii.com Wed Dec 29 21:46:10 2004 From: gtn at rbii.com (Gavin Thomas Nicol) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: What are terminals worth? In-Reply-To: <20041229203626.6E5B148A0@spies.com> References: <20041229203626.6E5B148A0@spies.com> Message-ID: <5828D4CE-5A15-11D9-987A-000D93520A84@rbii.com> On Dec 29, 2004, at 3:36 PM, Al Kossow wrote: > > I have a wyse wy-50 and a vt101 in good condition that I need to get > rid of... I'm wondering if they're even worth putting on ebay. > > > -- > > yes, esp if the vt101 has a working power supply. I actually hooked it up to a machine last year to test it, and it did work then. I'll check it again though. From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Thu Dec 30 03:27:06 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (gordonjcp@gjcp.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Reviving old hard drives In-Reply-To: <200412300908.JAA18377@citadel.metropolis.local> References: Your message of "Wed, 29 Dec 2004 20:11:06 EST." <200412300908.JAA18377@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <9984.195.212.29.83.1104398826.squirrel@195.212.29.83> > Hi, > > bob_lafleu said: >> Is there a repository of information regarding reviving old hard drives? >> >> Specifically, I have a Seagate ST3390N in a Mac Iici that appeard not to >> spin-up anymore. I'm wondering if there are any "tricks" that might get >> this >> drive running again? It's got my running copy of Opcode Vision on it, >> and >> I've not found any newer MIDI sequencing software that runs on current >> systems that I'm more comfortablr with... I'd love to get my Vision >> running >> again! > Speaking of which, does anyone know where I can get an oldish MIDI sequencer (like Performer, or Vision, or something) that will run on a Powerbook 150? Gordon. From waisun.chia at hp.com Thu Dec 30 03:31:55 2004 From: waisun.chia at hp.com (Wai-Sun Chia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: KRQ50 and RRD40-DA In-Reply-To: References: <2672.192.168.0.7.1103917131.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> from"Witchy" at Dec 24, 4 07:38:51 pm <1520.192.168.0.7.1103936769.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> <41CCE48F.7090705@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <41D3CB0B.7070902@hp.com> Hello list, Recently acquired a KRQ50 for my VAX so now I'm looking for the media to go with it. According to the literature, the KRQ50 will work with RRD50 and the RRD40-HB/HD. RRD50 seems to be pretty rare, however there are a couple of RRD40 at eBay right now. The question is that would a RRD40-DA (tabletop version) work with the KRQ50? The RRD40-DA has a standard 50-pin SCSI-I centronics connector, but I don't think the KRQ50 do SCSI, right? Or it doesn't matter? Furthermore, what is the difference between RRD40-HB/HD (KRQ50 version) and RRD40-AA/DA (SCSI version)? /wai-sun From nbreeden2 at comcast.net Thu Dec 30 11:41:19 2004 From: nbreeden2 at comcast.net (Neil Breeden) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Reviving old hard drives Message-ID: <200412301806.iBUI6KAe013917@huey.classiccmp.org> Bob, I've seen this work with IDE drives that wouldn't spin up due to bad bearings. Freeze the drive in your freezer then spin it up while it's still frozen. This seems to free the bearings for a short time so the drive can spin up. I know of a couple people who used this technique to copy the contents off a dead drive, they required several freeze passes to get all the data as the drive tends to warm up quickly once pulled from the freezer and powered up. The speculation has been that the metal contracts when frozen and releases stuck bearings, this has always seemed an 'Odd' explanation as the bearings and races should contract at the same rate assuming similar materials. Of course this is a last resort option and your experience may vary. -Neil >Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 20:11:06 -0500 >From: "Bob Lafleur" >Subject: Reviving old hard drives >To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Is there a repository of information regarding reviving old hard drives? > >Specifically, I have a Seagate ST3390N in a Mac Iici that appeard not to >spin-up anymore. I'm wondering if there are any "tricks" that might get this >drive running again? It's got my running copy of Opcode Vision on it, and >I've not found any newer MIDI sequencing software that runs on current >systems that I'm more comfortablr with... I'd love to get my Vision running >again! > . - Bob From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Thu Dec 30 15:09:16 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:39 2005 Subject: Trying to get running an LSI 11/23 In-Reply-To: <20041230143911.4c6e17e9.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <20041230143911.4c6e17e9.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:39:11 +0100, Jochen Kunz wrote: > I have a RX02 clone with SA800 interface. It starts a low level format > when this commands are entered at the VAX chevron prompt: > Single density (RX01) > d/p/w 20001E78 9 > d/p/w 20001E7A 92 > > Double density (RX02) > d/p/w 20001E78 109 > d/p/w 20001E7A 92 What brand/model is your card? -ethan From cb at mythtech.net Thu Dec 30 15:10:36 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Reviving old hard drives Message-ID: >The speculation has been that the metal contracts when frozen and releases >stuck bearings, this has always seemed an > >'Odd' explanation as the bearings and races should contract at the same rate >assuming similar materials. Surface to mass differences should allow one to cool faster, and although both may in the end shrink to the same size, one should shrink quicker, and the initial shrink may be all that is popping it free. I'm not saying that is why the trick works... I'm just pointing out some validity in the plausible nature of the idea. -chris From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Dec 30 15:13:51 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Reviving old hard drives In-Reply-To: <200412301806.iBUI6KAe013917@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200412301806.iBUI6KAe013917@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <41D46F8F.8090708@mdrconsult.com> Neil Breeden wrote: > Bob, > > > > I've seen this work with IDE drives that wouldn't spin up due to bad > bearings. > > > > Freeze the drive in your freezer then spin it up while it's still frozen. > This seems to free the bearings for a short time so the drive can spin up. > I know of a couple people who used this technique to copy the contents off a > dead drive, they required several freeze passes to get all the data as the > drive tends to warm up quickly once pulled from the freezer and powered up. > > > > The speculation has been that the metal contracts when frozen and releases > stuck bearings, this has always seemed an > > 'Odd' explanation as the bearings and races should contract at the same rate > assuming similar materials. Bearings and races are almost never the same alloy. Even with journal bearings, where the race *is* the bearing, one peculiarity of solid geometry is that the larger torus contracts to a different degree than the smaller. Damned if I can remember which contracts more, though. Doc From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 30 16:25:32 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Noisy profile hard drive In-Reply-To: <1104435052.7689.27.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1104435052.7689.27.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: Once upon a time, I was an operator for a ring of Apollo domain machines. One of them had a drive that had a static drain spring (a leaf spring that touches the end of the spindle) that would take to "singing", a loud shriek. When this would happen, I was told to take the side off the apollo machine and ever so gently touch the spring. Worked like a charm, the spring would shut up for up to three weeks but it would always get back to it again. On Dec 30, 2004, at 11:30 AM, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Thu, 2004-12-30 at 14:16 -0500, John Lawson wrote: >> >> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, chris wrote: >> >>> I've got someone asking me about a Profile hard drive in a Lisa >>> 2/10. He >>> says it makes a loud screaming noise when it is running. Maybe bad >>> bearings? >> >> >> 72 years ago, I was in charge of an early 3Com LAN, with drives in >> stacked 'shoeboxes'. I came in one Monday morning to find one of the >> drives making this thin 'shrieking' noise. >> >> I of course did a panic shutdown and got the Vendor rolling - >> turns out >> that it was the Absolute Filter on top of the drive case making the >> same >> kind of noise that one makes by blowing across a piece of taut paper. >> The >> tech just pressed down on the aluminum cover at the edge of the filter >> 'pod' and that fixed it. >> >> I was sure the heads had crashed, but somehow the system was still >> running - though I couldn't see how, since it sounded like the heads >> were >> milling the platters into expensive red dust. > > Nice story - first time I've heard that. > > Other end of the scale, I've had a drive in a Whitechapel make a noise > like this before and it lasted about ten minutes on the bench before > the > heads went crunch. > > I've also got a Rodime drive (32MB I think) for a BBC micro that > screams > - only the scream comes and goes, plus changes in pitch. Sounds very > like bare metal on metal contact, but the drive ran for long enough to > copy data across to a replacement (and is still running, I just don't > have any call to use it) > > Personally I'd back up that Profile drive if there's critical data on > it > (if there's a way!) and be looking for a replacement drive... (can > Profiles use anything other than an ST506?) > > cheers > > Jules > From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Thu Dec 30 16:34:17 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Question about memory boards used on VAX 11/7xx In-Reply-To: <200412271052.24322.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <620164353@web.de> <200412271052.24322.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 10:52:24 -0500, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Monday 27 December 2004 05:35, Pierre Gebhardt wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I got 2 Memory Boards (National semiconductor) several weeks ago > > (each 1MB). Somerwhere on the net, someone says, that these can be > > used in VAX 11/7xx. Can I use these boards in my PDP 11/24, too ? No. There are 1MB boards for the 11/24, but they are somewhat odd, IIRC. I have an 11/24 at home with a KT24 (M7134?) Physical Address eXtension (PAX) board that lets you put more than 256K of memory in the 11/24, giving it a slight edge over the 11/34, at least in terms of max memory (the 11/34C might be able to crunch numbers a bit faster). ISTR paying about $300 for it back in the late 1980s when I was trying to fiddle with 2BSD. If you don't have one, you are limited to 18 address bits. I found one advertised for $60 at this place -> http://www.smhelectronics.com/mclass.html I reasonably confident that the 11/24 and 11/44 used the same memory. For 256K boards, it should be the M8722 (MS11-MB). Grubbing around on http://www.pdp11.co.uk/search/modules.ehtml?name=ms11&submit=Search seems to suggest that the 1MB version is the M8743 (MS11-PB), but I don't have my hardware close at hand to check my own machines. Max is 4MB (as with any 22-bit address bus). ( see: http://www.village.org/pdp11/faq.pages/11model.html for general PDP-11 stuff ) > I doubt it. The 11/24 uses UNIBUS memory, and the 11/78x and 11/750 > both have a special memory bus and controller (or multiple > controllers). In particular, the 11/750 has only one controller (unlike what's possible in the 11/78x line). There are 3 that I know of - the original one can only handle 256K boards (4116 DRAMs), the more common one can handle 1MB boards (4164 DRAMs, typically), and the newest one can handle, I _think_, two 4MB boards and enough 1MB boards to take the 11/750 up to 14MB total. There is a wire addition to the backplane to go from 2MB total to 8MB total (extra address line). I would expect some sort of similar change for the next bump, but I have never done it. > I don't know enough about the 11/730 (& 11/725) to say > "definitely no" but it seems quite unlikely that they used straight > UNIBUS memory. the KA730 (11/730 and 11/725 CPU) does _not_ use Unibus memory... it has a set of dedicated 32-bit-wide memory slots on a custom CPU backplane, _next to_ the 16-bit Unibus slots. The max there, IIRC, is 5MB total memory. -ethan From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Dec 30 16:43:53 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Trying to get running an LSI 11/23 In-Reply-To: References: <20041230143911.4c6e17e9.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20041230234353.4262e7cf.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 16:09:16 -0500 Ethan Dicks wrote: > > I have a RX02 clone with SA800 interface. [...] > What brand/model is your card? Can't remember. [pulling card vom VAX] MTI (Micro Technology Inc.) MXV22. Someone from this mailing list toled me about this "magic" commands and that many RX02 clones understand them. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 30 17:15:20 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Commodore sold yet again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041230150858.B67336@shell.lmi.net> On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > 24 MILLION Euro? FOR WHAT? Commodore means NOTHING commercially anymore. > It's a god damn pyramid scheme at this point. Each new owner hoping to > find an even more naive buyer than they were. But consider,... Lotus sued Adam Osborne's Paperback Software out of existence, because his Visi-Clone smelled like their Visi-Clone. If Adam were to have been just a little faster plunking down about $10K for the residual debris of the IP of VisiCalc, then he could have REVERSED that suit. Likewise, Novell was not interested in the assets of DRI, other than the Copyright ownershio of CP/M, and hence immunity from IP persecution from MICROS~1. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Dec 30 17:12:57 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (woodelf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41D48B79.9080708@jetnet.ab.ca> William Donzelli wrote: It is quite common (seen it with my own eyes, too) for a 40 year oldcarbon comp resistor to drift over 20 percent, and that even includes the five percent versions. That makes sense. Well what about your 40 year+ eyes drifting too. Hey look a blond in a swimsuit. :) From ethan.dicks at gmail.com Thu Dec 30 17:17:32 2004 From: ethan.dicks at gmail.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Trying to get running an LSI 11/23 In-Reply-To: <20041230234353.4262e7cf.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <20041230143911.4c6e17e9.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20041230234353.4262e7cf.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 23:43:53 +0100, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 16:09:16 -0500 > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > I have a RX02 clone with SA800 interface. > [...] > > What brand/model is your card? > Can't remember. > [pulling card vom VAX] > MTI (Micro Technology Inc.) MXV22. I've heard about that particular card, but I'm pretty sure that's not what I have. > Someone from this mailing list told me about this "magic" commands and > that many RX02 clones understand them. I'll have to give that a try when I get home. I have a case of real RX01 disks, but I also have a bunch of blanks I can play with. -ethan From dave04a at dunfield.com Thu Dec 30 17:30:07 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Waterloo MicroWAT ? Message-ID: <20041230233006.WAUY5758.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Anyone here know anything about the "MicroWAT" computer, which was developed at the University of Waterloo in Ontario Canada around 1980. I just acquired one - this is a small 6809 based computer, which I am told is very similar/somewhat compatible with the Waterloo 6809 coprocessor in the Commodore SuperPET. Looking for any information on it, as well as software (it apparently uses an IEEEish drive like the PET - in fact, it is possible/likely that a CBM drive is what it was designed for) One burning question - when I opened the machine, I found five cards in the slots - an I/O card, a CPU card (with a bit of ROM), a ROM card, and two RAM cards - tucked into the gap left by the two remaining empty slots was a small sealed board wrapped up in a plastic bag. This board is only perhaps 2-1/2 inches high (1/2 height or less of the other boards), and is completely encased in a shell, perhaps 1" thick, and is filled with potting compound - the only part visible is the edge card connector. In other words, it looks like a 1" x 2-1/2" black box with an edge card connector protruding from it - it will fit the slots, although I'm not completely certain which way it goes in (it could face either way). Anyone know what this board is? Could it be related to the "Secret" little daughter board in the SuperPET (the one whose function was never documented)? [If it's like that board, then it would be required for the system to function, which would lead to the question - why was it unplugged and wrapped up?] any info or pointers for either the machine, card or both would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Dec 30 17:33:51 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Waterloo MicroWAT ? In-Reply-To: <20041230233006.WAUY5758.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> from Dave Dunfield at "Dec 30, 4 06:30:07 pm" Message-ID: <200412302333.PAA16852@floodgap.com> > Anyone here know anything about the "MicroWAT" computer, which was > developed at the University of Waterloo in Ontario Canada around 1980. > > I just acquired one - this is a small 6809 based computer, which I am > told is very similar/somewhat compatible with the Waterloo 6809 coprocessor > in the Commodore SuperPET. Actually, according to my information, it *is* a SuperPET. See http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/ckb/secret/pet.html -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- In memory of Howard Caine -------------------------------------------------- From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Dec 30 17:50:49 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: LF: Tektronix Model 31 Info AVL: Olivetti Programma 101 parts/docs In-Reply-To: <20041229200959.XNYG5758.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041230185049.00b36210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Dave, Rick Bensene seems to be the expert on the Tektronix 31s. I think he has a section on his website about them. He used to work for Tektronix. FWIW I have three Tek 31s NIB! Had a fourth one labeled as a (mumble) Survey Calculator but I got rid of it. OH I think Sellam had some kind of docs for the T31s too but I doubt he's been able to find them. Joe At 03:10 PM 12/29/04 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Guys, > >Just picked up an Tektronix Model 31 desktop calculator. This is a >fairly old (early 70s) desktop programmable with built in tape storage >and printer. > >Looking for information/documenation on it - all I got was the bare >unit (which looks to be in good shape). > >Also got a stack of circuit boards from an Olivetti Programma 101 >(early 60s) as well as the general reference manual and some programming >sheets - unfortunately the machine itself was "taken apart" many years ago >and this is all that remains - the boards are very interesting and worth >keeping on their own, as they utilize discrete resistor/transistor logic >modules. However, if someone on this list has a Programma 101 in need of >parts, I would rather see them used to heal a whole machine instead of >sitting on my shelf as curiosities. > >Regards, >Dave > >PS: Also picked up a "MicroWat" - 6809 based computer built by the University >of Waterloo in Canada - if anyone has info please contact me. >-- >dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > > > From dave04a at dunfield.com Thu Dec 30 18:00:46 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Waterloo MicroWAT ? Message-ID: <20041231000045.BKXE20721.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> At 15:33 30/12/2004 -0800, you wrote: >> Anyone here know anything about the "MicroWAT" computer, which was >> developed at the University of Waterloo in Ontario Canada around 1980. >> >> I just acquired one - this is a small 6809 based computer, which I am >> told is very similar/somewhat compatible with the Waterloo 6809 coprocessor >> in the Commodore SuperPET. > >Actually, according to my information, it *is* a SuperPET. See > > http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/ckb/secret/pet.html Thanks - I too found this reference, however it is in error - the MicroWAT I have is actually a stand-alone computer in a small box with a power supply, small card cage, three serial ports and an IEEE connector (I have one here in front of me). I also did uncover a Waterloo document entitled: "Waterloo Microcomputer Systems for the 1980's" by D.D. Cowan and J.W. Graham at the University of Waterloo in which they describe the MicroWAT and the SuperPET as separate systems: "It was noted that on campus there were more than 1000 'dumb' ASCII terminals, mostly with CRTs and keyboards, and a study was initiated to consider the problems in their conversion to personal workstations meeting our specifications. The study led to the design of the microWAT a prototype of which became operational in December 1980 ..." "The microWAT is a computer system of one or more circuit boards mounted on a rather simple bus. A typical system consists of 4 cards, namely the CPU card, 48K RAM card, 64k bank-switched ROM card and the IEEE-488 bus interface card. The system can be mounted inside most of our ASCII terminals ... If desired or necessary, the microWAT can be mounted in its own chassis with it's own power supply." "At the same time as the development of the microWAT, we investigated the possibility of expanding existing microcomputers by providing them with a large memory so that they could incorporate our planned software. We modified a PET microcomputer by adding 64k of bank-switched RAM, a 6809 microprocessor and an RS232 interface. This design eventually let to the Commodore SuperPET which is a personal workstation similar to the microWAT". >From there it goes on to describe the waterloo software and languages, with no real distinction between the microWAT the the SuperPET - so the above is really all I know for certain about the microWAT, however it does appear to be distinct from, but related to the SuperPET. Once the holidays are over, I will contact the curator of the York museum in Toronto, as I am certain that he has mentioned to me in past conversation a stand-alone 6809 based system that was developed at Waterloo - perhaps he will be able to fill in some details, however if anyone else has information to offer, please do step forward. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Dec 30 18:12:59 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Waterloo MicroWAT ? In-Reply-To: <20041231000045.BKXE20721.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> from Dave Dunfield at "Dec 30, 4 07:00:46 pm" Message-ID: <200412310012.QAA08616@floodgap.com> > > Actually, according to my information, it *is* a SuperPET. See > > > > http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/ckb/secret/pet.html > > Thanks - I too found this reference, however it is in error - the MicroWAT > I have is actually a stand-alone computer in a small box with a power > supply, small card cage, three serial ports and an IEEE connector (I have > one here in front of me). [...] > From there it goes on to describe the waterloo software and languages, with > no real distinction between the microWAT the the SuperPET - so the above isx > really all I know for certain about the microWAT, however it does appear to > be distinct from, but related to the SuperPET. Based on that document, yes, it does sound like they are indeed separate units. Is there a 6502 in yours, or is it 6809 only? I'll update my page. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Please dispose of this message in the usual manner. -- Mission: Impossible - From allain at panix.com Thu Dec 30 18:26:09 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: KRQ50 and RRD40-DA References: <2672.192.168.0.7.1103917131.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> from"Witchy"at Dec 24, 4 07:38:51 pm <1520.192.168.0.7.1103936769.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> <41CCE48F.7090705@pacbell.net> <41D3CB0B.7070902@hp.com> Message-ID: <002c01c4eecf$540d1140$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I have found the following information from various sources: The DEC RRD50 drive is the same as a Phillips CM100. A KRQ50 (M7552) is the controller for the RRD50 And RRD40. A KRQ50 is LMSI. (LM == LaserMagnetics SI= ?Serial ?Interface) >From what you say, I would add: Be sure the RRD40 is the LMSI and not the SCSI version, although this is the first I've heard of the two variants. John A. From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 30 18:30:20 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: 8' floppy drive. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041230162643.X67336@shell.lmi.net> I've never seen an 8' floppy drive. 8" is the largest FLOPPY that I'm familiar with. In HARD drives, I have a damaged 2' diameter platter, that I have been told came from a 1620 (but I have also been told that there weren't no sech animal, and that it must have come from a 1401) I find it amusing that when I show the 2' platter to my students, then put it away, then ask about it, they tend to estimate its size as 3 to 4 feet! From williams.dan at gmail.com Thu Dec 30 18:48:18 2004 From: williams.dan at gmail.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: KRQ50 and RRD40-DA In-Reply-To: <41D3CB0B.7070902@hp.com> References: <2672.192.168.0.7.1103917131.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> <1520.192.168.0.7.1103936769.squirrel@vorbis.demon.co.uk> <41CCE48F.7090705@pacbell.net> <41D3CB0B.7070902@hp.com> Message-ID: <26c11a64041230164876d66b59@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 17:31:55 +0800, Wai-Sun Chia wrote: > Hello list, > Recently acquired a KRQ50 for my VAX so now I'm looking for the media to > go with it. According to the literature, the KRQ50 will work with RRD50 > and the RRD40-HB/HD. > > RRD50 seems to be pretty rare, however there are a couple of RRD40 at > eBay right now. The question is that would a RRD40-DA (tabletop version) > work with the KRQ50? > > The RRD40-DA has a standard 50-pin SCSI-I centronics connector, but I > don't think the KRQ50 do SCSI, right? Or it doesn't matter? > > Furthermore, what is the difference between RRD40-HB/HD (KRQ50 version) > and RRD40-AA/DA (SCSI version)? > > /wai-sun > The KRQ50 version of the rrd40 is not scsi it is serial driven (lms ?). The rrd40 are also really slow less then 1x speed drives. Unless you want it for shits and giggles I wouldn't recommend using one. It would be quicker to use a pc running simh to copy files across when you need them (not as fun though). Also if you do find the right rrd40 it probably won't come with caddies or cables. Dan Dan From sloboyko at yahoo.com Thu Dec 30 18:57:50 2004 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Reviving old hard drives In-Reply-To: <200412310040.iBV0b7Ao017599@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20041231005750.58996.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> 1. Very early full height drives had a real "brake", like a brake shoe on a car, that locks when power is disengaged. Maybe this is sticking. 2. Very early drives son't have any kind of embedded servo/voice coil technology - they used a stepper only. I recall that those didn't like to operate outside of a narrow temperature range (50-100F), probably coefficient of expension problems. I remember that we were so excited when our first Shugart 5M full height came in we formatted it immediately after it had been in a UPS truck for days during the winter - and it produced numerous errors. Two hours later, we reformatted it and it was fine. So, I don't know how well the temperature trick will work. It might work for a few minutes between "too cold" and "too hot"... ===== -Steve Loboyko Website: http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl Nixie Watch (one-tube):http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl/complwatch.htm __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 30 18:36:08 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Reviving old hard drives In-Reply-To: <200412300908.JAA18377@citadel.metropolis.local> from "Stan Barr" at Dec 30, 4 09:08:12 am Message-ID: > was enough to save the data. On dismantling the drive I found that the > grease on the platter spindle had gone rock hard with age - this happened > to an old full-height drive in my AT too. One of my other interests (yes, I don't just hack old computers!) is old cameras, still and cine (movie) ones. Anyway, a few weeks back I got a Bolex 8mm cine camera, one of the faults of which was that the focussing mount on the 13mm lens was jammed solid. And yes it was solid. I could not move it. Anyway, I took off all I could (aperture ring, focusing ring) and found the grease on the focussing mount had gone rock-hard. It was green in colour, and I could chip it off the metal parts with a screwdriver blade. Soaking it in propan-2-ol got it free enough to come apart with some force, whereupon I could chip off all the old grease. After regreasing it and putting it all back together (not forgetting to set the infinity focus point), it worked beautifully again. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 30 18:44:15 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Noisy profile hard drive In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Dec 30, 4 02:16:23 pm Message-ID: > > I've got someone asking me about a Profile hard drive in a Lisa 2/10. He > > says it makes a loud screaming noise when it is running. Maybe bad > > bearings? > > > 72 years ago, I was in charge of an early 3Com LAN, with drives in > stacked 'shoeboxes'. I came in one Monday morning to find one of the > drives making this thin 'shrieking' noise. > > I of course did a panic shutdown and got the Vendor rolling - turns out > that it was the Absolute Filter on top of the drive case making the same > kind of noise that one makes by blowing across a piece of taut paper. The > tech just pressed down on the aluminum cover at the edge of the filter > 'pod' and that fixed it. > > I was sure the heads had crashed, but somehow the system was still > running - though I couldn't see how, since it sounded like the heads were > milling the platters into expensive red dust. > > Maybe this is what's happening here?? Another thing that can make a worrying (but non-fatal) noise on older hard drives is the spindle earthing (grounding) contact. This is normally a phosphor-bronze strip soldered to the PCB carrying a graphite pad that presses on the end of the spindle. It can often be silenced by bending it so a differnt part of the pad rests on the spindle, or by sticking something (foam, for example) on the spring to damp the vibrations. Don't just remove it, though (I have seen this done), or you might get more data errors. -tony From richard.beaudry at gmail.com Thu Dec 30 19:12:18 2004 From: richard.beaudry at gmail.com (Richard Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Powermac 8100/80 RAM question Message-ID: >From: Tom Peters >Subject: Re: Powermac 8100/80 RAM question >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >I have lots of old 72-pin SIMMs laying around. What are you looking for? Actually, I have a metric crapload of PC 72-pin SIMMs lying around, and the Mac that needs more RAM. Just wondering if I could make a match. It seems like it will, from all the replies, so maybe some of that RAM can find a home.... Thanks to all for the replies! Rich B. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Dec 30 19:14:42 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: LF: Tektronix Model 31 Info AVL: Olivetti Programma 101 parts/docs In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20041230185049.00b36210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, Joe R. wrote: > Rick Bensene seems to be the expert on the Tektronix 31s. I think he has > a section on his website about them. He used to work for Tektronix. FWIW I > have three Tek 31s NIB! Had a fourth one labeled as a (mumble) Survey > Calculator but I got rid of it. > > OH I think Sellam had some kind of docs for the T31s too but I doubt he's > been able to find them. I've got the manual and I may even know where the box is that contains it. I've promised Dave I'll look for it over the weekend. Where the hell did you find 3 Tek 31's NIB? Nice score! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Dec 30 19:28:51 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: LF: Tektronix Model 31 Info AVL: Olivetti Programma 101parts/docs In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20041230185049.00b36210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041230202851.00911740@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:14 PM 12/30/04 -0800, you wrote: >On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> Rick Bensene seems to be the expert on the Tektronix 31s. I think he has >> a section on his website about them. He used to work for Tektronix. FWIW I >> have three Tek 31s NIB! Had a fourth one labeled as a (mumble) Survey >> Calculator but I got rid of it. >> >> OH I think Sellam had some kind of docs for the T31s too but I doubt he's >> been able to find them. > >I've got the manual and I may even know where the box is that contains it. >I've promised Dave I'll look for it over the weekend. > >Where the hell did you find 3 Tek 31's NIB? Nice score! A buddy of mine found them at a garage sale. The guy that he bought them from used to work for Tektronix and he brought them here when Tektronix transferred him here from Oregon years ago but then never used them. They had a few papers with them but the bugs had pretty well eaten them up. I suspect he had the manuals for them but had lost them or tossed them years ago. Joe > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From dmabry at mich.com Thu Dec 30 20:06:17 2004 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Intel MDS Series II poll Message-ID: <41D4B419.8040606@mich.com> Ok, I've been on a kick lately to get my Intel MDS Series II systems working as much as I can. So my interest in them is peaking. I'd like to know who has Series II's on this list, if you don't mind admitting it. I know that Tony, Joe, Steve, Dwight, and a few others do. And Joe can probably supply anyone who wants one with a system. ;) Just kidding Joe. You are hanging onto yours as an investment, right? I know I am!!! These last couple of days I copied images of the ROM code that makes up an upgrade for the Series II called iMDX-511. It was all new firmware for the IOC board (4 2716's) and a new firmware in the keyboard (8741A) to implement the upgrade. It turned the RPT (repeat) key into a "function" (FCTN) key. And along with the latest version of ISIS (4.3) you had the capability to hit FCTN-D for "DIR " or FCTN-T for " TO " and many other "soft" keys for ISIS command line shortcuts. It also added cursor addressability to the integral CRT and some attributes, like reverse video, blinking, underline, etc. All stuff that we take for granted today, but in those days it was a big thing!!! Anyway, if anyone is interested I can make the binaries available and help those of you who have these beasts get it implemented. Any takers? Dave Mabry From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Dec 30 20:22:33 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Intel MDS Series II poll In-Reply-To: <41D4B419.8040606@mich.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041230212233.0090c760@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Dave, I have a crap load of 8741s (I think!) that are just waiting for a project like this! I already have this installed in my MDS-235. I'm sure I have plenty of 2716s too but those are common. Hmmm, this might be a good opportunity to try out that Stag programmer that I've never used. I got your other message and will call you some other time. My OL fell and messed up her ankle and I'm having to tote and fetch for her and I'm worn out. Also just spent three days cleaning %$^%&% HSA hijacker off my computer! Joe At 09:06 PM 12/30/04 -0500, you wrote: >Ok, I've been on a kick lately to get my Intel MDS Series II systems >working as much as I can. So my interest in them is peaking. > >I'd like to know who has Series II's on this list, if you don't mind >admitting it. I know that Tony, Joe, Steve, Dwight, and a few others >do. And Joe can probably supply anyone who wants one with a system. >;) Just kidding Joe. You are hanging onto yours as an investment, >right? I know I am!!! > >These last couple of days I copied images of the ROM code that makes up >an upgrade for the Series II called iMDX-511. It was all new firmware >for the IOC board (4 2716's) and a new firmware in the keyboard (8741A) >to implement the upgrade. It turned the RPT (repeat) key into a >"function" (FCTN) key. And along with the latest version of ISIS (4.3) >you had the capability to hit FCTN-D for "DIR " or FCTN-T for " TO " and >many other "soft" keys for ISIS command line shortcuts. It also added >cursor addressability to the integral CRT and some attributes, like >reverse video, blinking, underline, etc. All stuff that we take for >granted today, but in those days it was a big thing!!! > >Anyway, if anyone is interested I can make the binaries available and >help those of you who have these beasts get it implemented. > >Any takers? >Dave Mabry > > > From dave04a at dunfield.com Thu Dec 30 20:49:07 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Waterloo MicroWAT ? Message-ID: <20041231024906.DVMH20721.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> >> From there it goes on to describe the waterloo software and languages, with >> no real distinction between the microWAT the the SuperPET - so the above isx >> really all I know for certain about the microWAT, however it does appear to >> be distinct from, but related to the SuperPET. > >Based on that document, yes, it does sound like they are indeed separate >units. Is there a 6502 in yours, or is it 6809 only? > >I'll update my page. It has only a 6809 in it, which doesn't suprise me, since I don't believe the 6502 is actually used by the Waterloo software once the SuperPET is switched to 6809 mode. I am planning an update to my site within the next couple of weeks, and I will include photos of the microWAT (inside and out), as well as the document that I have, and whatever other information I can turn up between now and then. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Dec 30 21:03:18 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Waterloo MicroWAT ? In-Reply-To: <20041231024906.DVMH20721.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> from Dave Dunfield at "Dec 30, 4 09:49:07 pm" Message-ID: <200412310303.TAA14722@floodgap.com> > > Based on that document, yes, it does sound like they are indeed separate > > units. Is there a 6502 in yours, or is it 6809 only? > > > > I'll update my page. > > It has only a 6809 in it, which doesn't suprise me, since I don't believe the > 6502 is actually used by the Waterloo software once the SuperPET is switched > to 6809 mode. > > I am planning an update to my site within the next couple of weeks, and I will > include photos of the microWAT (inside and out), as well as the document that > I have, and whatever other information I can turn up between now and then. Okay. Since that's not, strictly speaking, a Commodore device (now ^^), I'll just include a link to your page when you have it up. Send me the URL when you complete it. Thanks for the information! I'm sorry mine was wrong. ^_^;; -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- FORTUNE: You have a magnetic personality. Avoid iron-based alloys. --------- From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Dec 30 21:32:18 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Intel MDS Series II poll References: <41D4B419.8040606@mich.com> Message-ID: <004701c4eee9$54ec27d0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > I'd like to know who has Series II's on this list, if you don't mind > admitting it. I have one I'd love to get a copy of that upgrade rom. Alas, it will be quite some time before I can really dig into the MDS machine. Jay > From dmabry at mich.com Thu Dec 30 21:46:01 2004 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Intel MDS Series II poll In-Reply-To: <004701c4eee9$54ec27d0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <41D4B419.8040606@mich.com> <004701c4eee9$54ec27d0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <41D4CB79.2070209@mich.com> Oops. I knew there was another one I should have known about. Where was it that you got your MDS, Jay? ;) I'm putting together the zip file now. Will send it out to you presently. Jay West wrote: >> I'd like to know who has Series II's on this list, if you don't mind >> admitting it. > > I have one > > I'd love to get a copy of that upgrade rom. Alas, it will be quite > some time before I can really dig into the MDS machine. > > Jay > >> > > > From at258 at osfn.org Thu Dec 30 22:41:13 2004 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Speaking of eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oh, no you didn't bid on those Siamese Twin exotic Dancers, did you?? On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > But it makes me wonder, what is the most that we've all knowingly over-paid for > > a collector's item in the hobby -- perhaps something that you really wanted and > > said "just this once"...? > > What? Show our hands? > > Seriously, I have spent some big bucks for some computers and radios. That > B1900 on EBay cost me about $2K when all was said and done (mostly > shipping). A string of 3330 drives is costing me about $500 a > pop. Sometimes the rarity commands the price. > > One purchase was insanely expensive. However, you aren't going to > find out how much... > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > > > -- M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From melamy at earthlink.net Thu Dec 30 22:48:48 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Intel MDS Series II poll In-Reply-To: <41D4B419.8040606@mich.com> References: <41D4B419.8040606@mich.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041230234630.03e62540@mail.earthlink.net> Hi Dave, count me in on the binaries. I will be getting back to Virginia this Sunday from Seattle, so time will be something I have too much of then.Thanks. best regards, Steve ] At 09:06 PM 12/30/2004, Dave Mabry wrote: >Ok, I've been on a kick lately to get my Intel MDS Series II systems >working as much as I can. So my interest in them is peaking. > >I'd like to know who has Series II's on this list, if you don't mind >admitting it. I know that Tony, Joe, Steve, Dwight, and a few others >do. And Joe can probably supply anyone who wants one with a system. >;) Just kidding Joe. You are hanging onto yours as an investment, >right? I know I am!!! > >These last couple of days I copied images of the ROM code that makes up an >upgrade for the Series II called iMDX-511. It was all new firmware for >the IOC board (4 2716's) and a new firmware in the keyboard (8741A) to >implement the upgrade. It turned the RPT (repeat) key into a "function" >(FCTN) key. And along with the latest version of ISIS (4.3) you had the >capability to hit FCTN-D for "DIR " or FCTN-T for " TO " and many other >"soft" keys for ISIS command line shortcuts. It also added cursor >addressability to the integral CRT and some attributes, like reverse >video, blinking, underline, etc. All stuff that we take for granted >today, but in those days it was a big thing!!! > >Anyway, if anyone is interested I can make the binaries available and help >those of you who have these beasts get it implemented. > >Any takers? >Dave Mabry > From randy at s100-manuals.com Thu Dec 30 23:07:02 2004 From: randy at s100-manuals.com (Randy McLaughlin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Intel MDS Series II poll References: <41D4B419.8040606@mich.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20041230234630.03e62540@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <001201c4eef6$9378f5c0$1f92d6d1@randylaptop> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Thatcher" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" ; Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 10:48 PM Subject: Re: Intel MDS Series II poll > Hi Dave, count me in on the binaries. I will be getting back to Virginia > this Sunday from Seattle, so time will be something I have too much of > then.Thanks. > > best regards, Steve > ] > At 09:06 PM 12/30/2004, Dave Mabry wrote: >>Ok, I've been on a kick lately to get my Intel MDS Series II systems >>working as much as I can. So my interest in them is peaking. >> >>I'd like to know who has Series II's on this list, if you don't mind >>admitting it. I know that Tony, Joe, Steve, Dwight, and a few others do. >>And Joe can probably supply anyone who wants one with a system. >>;) Just kidding Joe. You are hanging onto yours as an investment, right? >>I know I am!!! >> >>These last couple of days I copied images of the ROM code that makes up an >>upgrade for the Series II called iMDX-511. It was all new firmware for >>the IOC board (4 2716's) and a new firmware in the keyboard (8741A) to >>implement the upgrade. It turned the RPT (repeat) key into a "function" >>(FCTN) key. And along with the latest version of ISIS (4.3) you had the >>capability to hit FCTN-D for "DIR " or FCTN-T for " TO " and many other >>"soft" keys for ISIS command line shortcuts. It also added cursor >>addressability to the integral CRT and some attributes, like reverse >>video, blinking, underline, etc. All stuff that we take for granted >>today, but in those days it was a big thing!!! >> >>Anyway, if anyone is interested I can make the binaries available and help >>those of you who have these beasts get it implemented. >> >>Any takers? >>Dave Mabry I would be happy to host the files, I can even host disk images. Randy www.s100-manuals.com From chenmel at earthlink.net Thu Dec 30 23:52:27 2004 From: chenmel at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Intel MDS Series II poll In-Reply-To: <41D4B419.8040606@mich.com> References: <41D4B419.8040606@mich.com> Message-ID: <20041231005227.0b225239.chenmel@earthlink.net> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:06:17 -0500 Dave Mabry wrote: > Ok, I've been on a kick lately to get my Intel MDS Series II systems > working as much as I can. So my interest in them is peaking. > > I'd like to know who has Series II's on this list, if you don't mind > admitting it. I know that Tony, Joe, Steve, Dwight, and a few others > do. And Joe can probably supply anyone who wants one with a system. > ;) Just kidding Joe. You are hanging onto yours as an investment, > right? I know I am!!! > I have the Series II machine that I mistakenly called an MDS-800 in a comment a few months ago on the list. It still hasn't been brought up. I have way too many projects all running at once, as usual. Pix of the boards in mine at http://sasteven.multics.org/MDS/Intel_MDS_Cards.html for anybody who hasn't looked at them already. Scott From randy at s100-manuals.com Fri Dec 31 00:25:27 2004 From: randy at s100-manuals.com (Randy McLaughlin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Intel MDS Series II poll References: <41D4B419.8040606@mich.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20041230234630.03e62540@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <001a01c4ef01$86750c00$213cd7d1@randylaptop> I've started a simple webpage to post Intel files. I intend to add as many systems as I can related to CP/M (and other OS's for machines that handle CP/M). I intend to host disk images, ROM images, manuals, etc. The Intel files are available through either http://www.s100-manuals.com and http://intel.s100-manuals.com. If anyone has files they think would interest me can email me directly at randy at s100-manuals dot com. Randy www.s100-manuals.com From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Fri Dec 31 00:52:04 2004 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Waterloo MicroWAT ? References: <20041231024906.DVMH20721.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: <00c601c4ef05$3cd232e0$3a92a8c0@maggie> is this the small 50 pin cage thing made by Northern Digital?? or the Superpet? Mine has a 6502 and 6809 I think - the switch powered one cpu or the other... h ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Dunfield" To: Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 9:49 PM Subject: Re: Waterloo MicroWAT ? > > >> From there it goes on to describe the waterloo software and languages, with > >> no real distinction between the microWAT the the SuperPET - so the above isx > >> really all I know for certain about the microWAT, however it does appear to > >> be distinct from, but related to the SuperPET. > > > >Based on that document, yes, it does sound like they are indeed separate > >units. Is there a 6502 in yours, or is it 6809 only? > > > >I'll update my page. > > It has only a 6809 in it, which doesn't suprise me, since I don't believe the > 6502 is actually used by the Waterloo software once the SuperPET is switched > to 6809 mode. > > I am planning an update to my site within the next couple of weeks, and I will > include photos of the microWAT (inside and out), as well as the document that > I have, and whatever other information I can turn up between now and then. > > Regards, > Dave > -- > dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield > dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com > com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > > From Innfogra at aol.com Fri Dec 31 02:58:31 2004 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Intel MDS Series II poll Message-ID: <198.3557dbf6.2f066eb7@aol.com> I have an MDS 800, not running, and several iPDS intel development systems. I also have an Intel 330, a 380 and several 310s for Multibus I systems. A recent addition is an 80/10 rack mount system (4 slot Multibus I with a SBC 80/10). I have had all of the development systems go through my hands in the early 90s when we were buying truckloads from intel. I have tinkered with most. About 1993 we sold all of our Multibus cards to Inbus. Did anyone on the list get the intel IPSC that sold on ebay last month. Paxton Astoria, OR From vcf at siconic.com Fri Dec 31 04:16:18 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: New bounties for the new year ($$$) Message-ID: I'm seeking the following software for a client: Title Publisher Context MBA Context Management Systems Open Access Software Products International Intuit Noumenon Corp. Aura Softrend, Inc. Jack2 Business Solutions The Incredible Jack Business Solutions Jack Report Business Solutions Has ya gots any? E-mail me directly and let's talk! Looking to buy and will pay generously. Only one more day but I'll beat everyone to it: Happy New Year! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From river at zip.com.au Thu Dec 30 16:59:36 2004 From: river at zip.com.au (river) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Intel MDS Series II poll Message-ID: <016601c4eec3$3c743a60$cc2c083d@river> Hi, I'll gladly admit to having one. What a wonderful old beast. Got it a few weeks ago - covered in grime and dirt, but I cleaned up the main box and all the boards and connectors and it runs like a dream now. It's an MDS-225, and it came with the expansion chasis, double-density disk drive array, ICE-80, ICE-51 and ICE-41 emulators and software and ISIS-II disks. I ran the ROM-based diags and it all came out okay - including the integral disk drive. I need a cable (or pinouts so I can make one) to attach the disk array. I think I'll need the disk array 'cos most of the disks are double density and won't run on the integral drive. I haven't cleaned up or attached the expansion chasis yet. I'm currently on the hunt for manuals and have got most of them from the net and printed them out. Great stuff. I love this old equipment. I'm still getting used to it 'cos I've never used a diskette-only based MDS. My current pride and joy is an MDS-Series4 with ICE-85B emulator. I got another Series-4 also (when I got the MDS-225), but, as mentioned in a previous post, this baby's got a RAM error and I don't have enough spare 2118 chips to replace all the current chips, so I'm trying to isolate the chip, but it's kinds hard with no cct diagram. The CRO doesn't show anything wrong, but as the System Monitor comes up I think I'll write a short program to help isolate the fault. But, as both systems cost me only $88AUD, I can't really complain - even though their bulk is a challenge to the wife as they are in the family room. I don't think she's an "old big Intel box" sorta lady. :) Oh, thanks again to Dave for the TD images for the iPDS. I'm having a bit of fun with that thing also. Simply marvellous stuff. I got an ISIS-II users guide - thanks Fritz - so I'll be getting into this too. Ahh.. so many projects and things! I love it. seeyuzz river -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 30/12/04 From dave04a at dunfield.com Fri Dec 31 05:48:32 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Waterloo MicroWAT ? Message-ID: <20041231114831.FXYQ5758.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> >is this the small 50 pin cage thing made by Northern Digital?? or the >Superpet? >Mine has a 6502 and 6809 I think - the switch powered >one cpu or the other... >h Hi Heinz, Yes - this is the little box made by Northern Digital - it was apparently developed at U or Waterloo. There is only a 6809 inside, and no selection switch. (My SuperPET does have dual CPUs and a switch to select). Do you have one with dual CPU's? - Any additional information? Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From cvendel at att.net Fri Dec 31 15:19:15 2004 From: cvendel at att.net (cvendel@att.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Looking for RM05/CDC-9766 Owners Message-ID: <123120042119.28645.41D5C2530006885D00006FE52158766720040A0B020A900C@att.net> I am looking to exchange notes and information with anyone else who owns RM05's and/or CDC-9766 300MB SMD drives. You can contact me off-list: curt@atarimuseum.com Thanks, Curt From jgevaryahu at hotmail.com Fri Dec 31 15:33:32 2004 From: jgevaryahu at hotmail.com (Jonathan Gevaryahu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Votrax PSS Auction almost over! Message-ID: The auction for the nearly complete Votrax PSS is almost over! Come on, I'm hoping someone on the list manages to get it in the end, because it has the complete manual, including the advanced procedures section and the section about updating the internal list of substitution words! (the seller sent me that info) Here's the auction link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=162&item=5151487740&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW I hope to see the whole thing scanned (and I want to see the scans too). Jonathan Gevaryahu lord_nightmare_@t_users.sf.net jgevaryahu_@t_hotmail.com From aek at spies.com Fri Dec 31 19:11:38 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Votrax PSS Auction almost over! Message-ID: <20050101011138.738694D2F@spies.com> > I hope to see the whole thing scanned (and I want to see the scans too). And this information is worth how much to you? From geoffreythomas at onetel.com Fri Dec 31 19:34:25 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.com (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: 2005 Message-ID: <001501c4efa2$1978bce0$0200a8c0@geoff> Blwyddyn Newydd Dda - Happy new year To all on the list. I'm a republican - but not in the way you're thinking ! ( :^) Geoff. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 30/12/04 From dmabry at mich.com Fri Dec 31 20:48:51 2004 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Intel iPDS in general In-Reply-To: <41CCA3C8.7020102@mich.com> References: <41CCA3C8.7020102@mich.com> Message-ID: <41D60F93.2070408@mich.com> Who was it who wanted to know more about the multimodule addon board for the iPDS? I have a photo that I can send to him. Let me know. Dave > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Dec 31 21:24:48 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Intel iPDS in general In-Reply-To: <41D60F93.2070408@mich.com> References: <41CCA3C8.7020102@mich.com> <41CCA3C8.7020102@mich.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041231222448.0090cce0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Someone wanted the board or a schematic of it. but I'd like to see the picture. Joe At 09:48 PM 12/31/04 -0500, you wrote: >Who was it who wanted to know more about the multimodule addon board for >the iPDS? I have a photo that I can send to him. Let me know. > >Dave > >> > > From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Fri Dec 31 21:44:32 2004 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Waterloo MicroWAT ? References: <20041231000045.BKXE20721.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: <005001c4efb4$34a64480$3a92a8c0@maggie> Microwat! - never thought I'd hear that name again! Not, it's not a SuperPet. Not even close. Noting shared with Commodore's schematics. No memory mapped video, no VIAS. Instead it had 2x 6551 ACIAS and 3x 16/32K memory cards for a total of 96K, bank switched. It had an unreliable memory design, TTL control with LS123 one shots to generate ras/cas. It was designed by the CSG = Computer Systems Group of the Univeristy of Waterloo and Jerry Krist of Northern Digital.(still existing as a company) It used a bank switched eprom board (2532's ?) to run boot/ the monitor and Waterloo Structured interpreted languages (Which were themselves written in a weird C-like compiled language called WSL= Waterloo Systems Language) The Microwat could run a Commodore IEEE disk drive, a but needed an external serial terminal for stdio. Usually Volker Craig terms were used, but in a bid to sell to the Ontario School Board - Keynote Designs made a special Z80 board that had 16 level gray scale graphics emulating a tek4015. I world on a colour prototyp cga resolution display system for that education computer bit. The most interesting thing in that whole system was that Wes Graham (of Watfor fortran compiler fame) had written a copyrighted poem (Haiku) that was an unencrypted key required to run the software. The designers chose the rarest, hardest to program most obscure Harris 3 supply fuse proms to use, so it could not be easily copied. The Superpet didn't inherit the proms. Northern Digital lost the bid as it went to the Cemcorp Bionic Beaver based on an intel 186 and TI DSP for sound...but the Microwat lived on many years in the undergrad CS labs for teaching 6809 assembler. A version with the Keynote terminal and an internal card cage was use and networked (or what passed for networks) with IEEE and RS232. Later, Jerry got cancer and sold the company which became a huge success selling 3d Optical trackers to the medical and movie industry. Jerry subsequently died of cancer after spending his last days running a pig farm - his lifelong dream.. The company in it's early days had half a dozen people and sometimes the paychecks were a few months late - but it was that 90 hr a week camaraderie that made you forget that. I'll never forget -Jerry taught me how to use a scope! Rest his soul..-h ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Dunfield" To: Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 7:00 PM Subject: Re: Waterloo MicroWAT ? > At 15:33 30/12/2004 -0800, you wrote: > >> Anyone here know anything about the "MicroWAT" computer, which was > >> developed at the University of Waterloo in Ontario Canada around 1980. > >> > >> I just acquired one - this is a small 6809 based computer, which I am > >> told is very similar/somewhat compatible with the Waterloo 6809 coprocessor > >> in the Commodore SuperPET. > > > >Actually, according to my information, it *is* a SuperPET. See > > > > http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/ckb/secret/pet.html > > Thanks - I too found this reference, however it is in error - the MicroWAT I have is > actually a stand-alone computer in a small box with a power supply, small card cage, > three serial ports and an IEEE connector (I have one here in front of me). > > I also did uncover a Waterloo document entitled: > > "Waterloo Microcomputer Systems for the 1980's" > by D.D. Cowan and J.W. Graham at the University of Waterloo > > in which they describe the MicroWAT and the SuperPET as separate systems: > > "It was noted that on campus there were more than 1000 'dumb' ASCII terminals, mostly > with CRTs and keyboards, and a study was initiated to consider the problems in their > conversion to personal workstations meeting our specifications. The study led to the > design of the microWAT a prototype of which became operational in December 1980 ..." > > > "The microWAT is a computer system of one or more circuit boards mounted on a rather > simple bus. A typical system consists of 4 cards, namely the CPU card, 48K RAM card, > 64k bank-switched ROM card and the IEEE-488 bus interface card. The system can be > mounted inside most of our ASCII terminals ... If desired or necessary, the microWAT > can be mounted in its own chassis with it's own power supply." > > > "At the same time as the development of the microWAT, we investigated the possibility > of expanding existing microcomputers by providing them with a large memory so that they > could incorporate our planned software. We modified a PET microcomputer by adding 64k > of bank-switched RAM, a 6809 microprocessor and an RS232 interface. This design > eventually let to the Commodore SuperPET which is a personal workstation similar to the > microWAT". > > > >From there it goes on to describe the waterloo software and languages, with no real > distinction between the microWAT the the SuperPET - so the above is really all I know > for certain about the microWAT, however it does appear to be distinct from, but related > to the SuperPET. > > > Once the holidays are over, I will contact the curator of the York museum in Toronto, > as I am certain that he has mentioned to me in past conversation a stand-alone 6809 based > system that was developed at Waterloo - perhaps he will be able to fill in some details, > however if anyone else has information to offer, please do step forward. > > > Regards, > Dave > -- > dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield > dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com > com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > > From melamy at earthlink.net Fri Dec 31 23:38:21 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:40 2005 Subject: Intel iPDS in general Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20050101003816.01f7a530@mail.earthlink.net> that was the seeyuzz river... At 09:48 PM 12/31/2004, Dave Mabry wrote: >Who was it who wanted to know more about the multimodule addon board for >the iPDS? I have a photo that I can send to him. Let me know. > >Dave From gtn at rbii.com Fri Dec 31 11:03:37 2004 From: gtn at rbii.com (Gavin Thomas Nicol) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:42 2005 Subject: Completely original vs. upgraded In-Reply-To: <20041231114831.FXYQ5758.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> References: <20041231114831.FXYQ5758.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: I have a small NeXT collection (getting bigger ;-)) and one thing I was wondering about was the need to maintain originality. For example, I have one NeXT cube with an interesting pedigree (it has NeXT asset tags on it, and some interesting bits), but it's a 68030 motherboard... the low end cube. I have a NeXT Turbo board I can put into the case, but then the unit wouldn't be "original" any more... does that matter? From gtn at rbii.com Fri Dec 31 11:06:40 2004 From: gtn at rbii.com (Gavin Thomas Nicol) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:51:42 2005 Subject: Cleaning motherboards... In-Reply-To: <20041231114831.FXYQ5758.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> References: <20041231114831.FXYQ5758.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: <5695379C-5B4E-11D9-92C9-000D93520A84@rbii.com> Apart from dusting with compressed air and camel hair brushes, which removes the dust from circuit boards, are there any recommendations for cleaning the general grimy file from motherboards?