From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 2 17:32:59 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:29 2005 Subject: HP9826 Question - Basic 5.12 and such In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.1.20040330200342.017cb200@mail.saracom.com> from "El Presidente" at Mar 30, 4 08:14:07 pm Message-ID: > I have a question or 2 to ask on the HP9826. I am now the proud owner of I don't have a 9826 (it's one of the few HP desktops I've not obtained [1]) but the video circuitry is likely to be conventional. [1] 2 off 9100B, 2 off 9810, 9830, 9815, 9825, 9831, 9845, 9836, 3 off 85, 3 off 86B, 87, 87XM, 9915, 150-II, IPC, etc... > the labs old system. > Now I have several issues to resolve. The first is the reason I have and > the lab does not. The > display is out of focus and not too bright. I have tried to adjust using > the pots inside labeled focus > brightness. It helped alittle but not much. Any ideas? In general, problems are never solved by tweaking adjustments. The only reason to twiddle presets is to see what, if any, effect they have on the symptoms. If, for example, the focus pot had no effect at all, you might start by suspecting the focus anode voltage was missing for some reason. Anyway, dim and out of focus sounds like a CRT electrode voltage problem. Alas you didn't measure the voltages when the machine was working correctly (something I normally do do), so you've got nothing to compare against. But I'd start looking around the line output stage (horizontal output stage), possibly for a bad capacitor or a flyback transformer problem. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 2 17:36:42 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:31 2005 Subject: Shipping a Teletype In-Reply-To: from "David V. Corbin" at Mar 30, 4 09:46:48 pm Message-ID: > Finally any "sepcial packing techniques [specifically any internal > assemblies that need to be secured]? YES!!! The 'typing unit' -- the main chassis carrying the motor, printer mechanism, platten and punch -- is not fastened down. It rests on rubber pads. If it comes loose in shipping (and it will), it will damage itself, the keyboard, and the top cover (at least!). There is a hole under the base pan which lines up with one in the typing unit chassis casting. You put a self-tapping screw in there to hold the typing unit in place for shipping. According to the manual, you're supposed to clip this screw to the typing unit when you install the machine, so you have it available for future shipping. I have _never_ found this has been done, though. So you'll have to get a suitable screw from a hardware shop or something. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 2 17:56:16 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:31 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? In-Reply-To: <16490.54904.78000.796185@gargle.gargle.HOWL> from "Paul Koning" at Mar 31, 4 09:32:24 am Message-ID: > Drives like the RK05 retract the heads as part of spindown, so the > heads never land on the platter. They only load when the disk is up > to speed. You hope... If the power fails and your NiCd pack isn't any good, then the heads will land on the platter with nasty results... Anyway, the 'ting' when the heads load on an RK05 is claimed to be the heads bouncing off the platter, so they may well touch for an instant. > > Gravity is a component of the head loading force, which is why the > "up" and "down" heads are different -- different springs. They're different because they have to be mirror images (so that they'll fit into the position carriage, so that the cables come out on the same side, so that the right edge of the head profile is the 'leading edge' and so on. The obvious test (try the spings against each other) suggests that the up and down head springs have much the same tension. There may be differences, but I don't thing it's that major. -tony From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Apr 1 00:10:39 2004 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:33 2005 Subject: HP 200LX In-Reply-To: <005901c41788$7b41d6c0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> (Jay West's message of "Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:27:22 -0600") References: <005901c41788$7b41d6c0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <200404010610.i316Ad9L008664@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Jay West" wrote: > I have a SanDisk compactflash card, 4mb SDCFB with a PCMCIA adapter. It > doesn't work in my 200LX. I thought sandisk was one of the "usually works > with 200LX" cards. They are. Describe "doesn't work in my 200LX" more fully. If you don't care about the bits on the card, reformat it in the 200LX: "FDISK100", then "FORMAT A:". I picked up a lot of several 16MB SDCFB cards on eBay a little while ago and this was what I did to test them. You do know about HPLX-L, don't you? While the 200LX is getting close to on-topic here, it's definitely on-topic there. -Frank McConnell From donm at cts.com Thu Apr 1 00:42:42 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:35 2005 Subject: Vernon Buerg "List" clone for "C" In-Reply-To: <200403310719.CAA02311@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Wed, 31 Mar 2004, der Mouse wrote: > > Pardon my ignorance, but is anyone aware of a clone for Vernon > > Buerg's LIST program that will run on the various Unix flavors? > > Assuming you're talking about the program http://www.buerg.com/list.htm > describes...well, it's very thoroughly counter to the Unix philosphy of > "each program does just one thing and does it well". At a minimum, it > would have to include the equivalent of - or be prepared to fork and > process output from - tip/chat ("dialer"), tar/pax/cpio/ar/etc (the > various archive features), lpr/lprng/etc (printing), grep/egrep/etc > (searching), find (directory tree walking), hexdump (looking at things > in hex), and possibly others (for example, I don't know what "network > compatible" is supposed to mean). I was probably over inclusive when I spoke of a clone as far as features are concerned. What I was thinking of was the ability to be presented with a directory of files, select one with a cursor, and display it a page at a time as List does. It also permits calling up various archive opening ancillaries which can be rather handy. A dialer and other esoteric 'capabilities' are of no interest. I don't even use them in DOS. So within those limited boundries does anyone have any helpful suggestions to offer. - don > This probably could be done, but it would be a pretty horrible mess. > > > It would be awfully handy on my shell account! > > Perhaps. You probably would be better off, in the long run, learning > to use the full power of the existing tools, though; you'll be able to > do things with them that LIST cannot do[%], the skill gained will be > fairly directly portable to other Unix systems (as opposed to having to > install the LIST-alike), and you will learn a good deal about the > underlying OS in the process. > > /~\ The ASCII der Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > > [%] At least based on the advertised list of features. > From kenacms at ngatoro.six.net.au Thu Apr 1 01:57:33 2004 From: kenacms at ngatoro.six.net.au (Ken Kirkby (ACMS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:35 2005 Subject: any Honeywell H316 experts out there? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040330211850.00881d20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at Mar 30, 4 09:18:50 pm Message-ID: <200404010653.i316r4C12386@ngatoro.six.net.au> > > I've come across something very interesting and have some questions. > > Joe > What do you want to know - its been a while though. Not a Level 6/06 per chance which was the illfated Level6 emulation of the x16 series! Ken Kirkby From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Apr 1 06:59:21 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:36 2005 Subject: HP 200LX References: <005901c41788$7b41d6c0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <200404010610.i316Ad9L008664@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <006101c417e9$2700d000$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I had written... > > I have a SanDisk compactflash card, 4mb SDCFB with a PCMCIA adapter. It > > doesn't work in my 200LX. I thought sandisk was one of the "usually works > > with 200LX" cards. To which Frank replied... > They are. Describe "doesn't work in my 200LX" more fully. > > If you don't care about the bits on the card, reformat it in the > 200LX: "FDISK100", then "FORMAT A:". I picked up a lot of several > 16MB SDCFB cards on eBay a little while ago and this was what I did to > test them. It acts like it doesn't recognize the card. If I do a fdisk100, it says something to the effect that "fdisk not supported on drive a", and if I do a format "cannot format drive a". The compact flash card and pcmcia adapter does work fine in the digital camera I took it out of. Perhaps the pcmcia adapter that came from the camera isn't quite standard (it's a very old camera)? I dunno. I am the first owner of the 200LX and I have never used any pcmcia devices in it, perhaps it is broken? I hate to spend money on another CD & PCMCIA adapter if it's broken :\ > You do know about HPLX-L, don't you? While the 200LX is getting close > to on-topic here, it's definitely on-topic there. No I didn't, I should go look at it :) Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Apr 1 08:39:40 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:36 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? References: <16490.54904.78000.796185@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <16492.10668.341000.97701@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell writes: >> Drives like the RK05 retract the heads as part of spindown, so the >> heads never land on the platter. They only load when the disk is >> up to speed. Tony> You hope... If the power fails and your NiCd pack isn't any Tony> good, then the heads will land on the platter with nasty Tony> results... NiCd? You must be thinking of the big capacitors (not batteries) that do the emergency head retract in the event of powerfail. Tony> Anyway, the 'ting' when the heads load on an RK05 is claimed to Tony> be the heads bouncing off the platter, so they may well touch Tony> for an instant. I rather doubt that. The sound is no different from the "ting" sound you hear when the head actuator seeks. paul From ggs at shiresoft.com Thu Apr 1 09:43:55 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:36 2005 Subject: AIX In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1080834234.6175.9.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> On Wed, 2004-03-31 at 19:15, William Donzelli wrote: > > Ah, but there's your problem. You're thinking that AIX is unix. It _is_ > > UNIX(tm), but it really really isn't unix. It's a very proprietary OS > > with a very slick unix user interface and API. > > Yes, under the covers it apparently shares a bit with OS/400. Umm, no. AIX has nothing in common with OS/400. The main reason is that OS/400 didn't (doesn't) run on the 32-bit POWER. It was only when IBM started to move to 64-bits that the Austin lab (home of POWER & AIX) and Rochester lab (home of AS/400 & OS/400) were told to build 1 64-bit processor that could be used by both. OS/400 uses an extra bit (33-bits and 65-bits) for it's weird protection scheme. It is true that the AIX kernel (on POWER & PPC) was a custom written control program (written at T.J. Watson Research Center) with UNIX semanitics layered on top. This was to take full advantage of the POWER's architecture (especially in the VM area) that would have been too much work to adapt a "standard" unix kernel to. -- TTFN - Guy From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Apr 1 10:25:42 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:36 2005 Subject: AIX In-Reply-To: <1080834234.6175.9.camel@gandalf.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: > Umm, no. AIX has nothing in common with OS/400. My source is "Introduction to the RS/6000", and official IBM document from the very beginning of the line. If you give me some time, I could find the book and give the IBM number. It is a thick engineering/sales freebie, and has quite a few details of the internals of POWER and AIX (although not enough to do anything fun). It states that a some of the aspects of AIX were taken from OS/400 (I think aspects of the file system, but don't quote me on that until I find the book). > It is true that the AIX kernel (on POWER & PPC) was a custom written > control program (written at T.J. Watson Research Center) with UNIX > semanitics layered on top. This was to take full advantage of the > POWER's architecture (especially in the VM area) that would have been > too much work to adapt a "standard" unix kernel to. Well, sort of. AIX has a custom kernel, but was designed to be easily ported to other architectures - namely Intel architectures. This is also mentioned in the above document. This actually happened with the T386 and T960 router cards, used with the old NSFnet RS/6000-T3Bs. Each router card runs a cut down AIX on 80386 or 80960 microprocessors, and hadles all of the routing duties - the RS/6000 is just there for the ride, basically. These routing cards today are rarer than hen's teeth (look for extra thick MCA cards (T960), or even extra tall ones (T386)). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From pat at computer-refuge.org Thu Apr 1 10:44:38 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:36 2005 Subject: AIX In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200404011144.38686.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Thursday 01 April 2004 11:25, William Donzelli wrote: > Well, sort of. AIX has a custom kernel, but was designed to be easily > ported to other architectures - namely Intel architectures. This is Erm, methinks this copy of AIX-PS/2 I have is older than any RS/6000... so unless they used AIX on the RT/PC (which I don't think they did), I'm going to go with "ported to other architectures - namely POWER". Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From lbickley at bickleywest.com Thu Apr 1 11:36:32 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:36 2005 Subject: AIX In-Reply-To: <200404011144.38686.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200404011144.38686.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <200404010936.32826.lbickley@bickleywest.com> On Thursday 01 April 2004 08:44, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Erm, methinks this copy of AIX-PS/2 I have is older than any RS/6000... > so unless they used AIX on the RT/PC (which I don't think they did), > I'm going to go with "ported to other architectures - namely POWER". AIX was the OS for the RT/PC (We had one before we picked up a "real" POWER system). AIX-PS2 came out after the RT/PC AIX - and was never popular. Like the concept of putting what was supposed to be an enterprise OS on "toy" hardware - although I remember charging $3,000 - $10,000 for large disks (300MB) on PS/2 Servers around 1987,88. The margins were wonderful then.... By the early '90s we used to charge $15,000 for upgrade memory for large AIX systems - and that was at a 50% discount from IBM's list price. Someday I'll have to look up in our archives to see how much memory that bought (for sure not a lot by todays standards!). Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Apr 1 11:45:22 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers Message-ID: <20040401174522.GK1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> April 1, 2004 Associatid Press, Washington - The United States Federal Communications Commission, as part of a joint project funded by the Department of Defense, has approved measures to begin requiring US consumers to obtain licenses for all new personal computers purchased after January, 2005. "It's basically the same process that CB radio owners had to go through in the 1970's, only we require a slight ammount of additional information.", said Lance O. Onie, director of the FCC's PC Freedom Initiative. Purchasers of new PCs will have to fill out a simple "one step" form, with only the following information: The purchaser's Social Security number, current address, e-mail address(es), date of birth, driver's license number and the computer's CPU's unique serial number. "By requiring the driver's license number, we are able to simplify things by not requiring consumers to be inconvenienced by having their photos taken for inclusion in our database; we can just get that data from the states in which they're licensed.", Onie was quick to point out as a benifit of this simplified procedure. The user will be able to access the CPU's serial number through the use of a computer program distributed on a CD ROM with each new PC sold. The program must remain installed on the computer whenever the computer is used with the Internet. Owners of older computers will be exempt from this new law until December 25, 2006, "giving them plenty of time to upgrade their systems as necessary in order to comply with the new law", says Onie, who commented that this program will also be "very helpful to the economy." After that time, the FCC will work with the CIA, state and local law enforcement officials to conduct random high-tech sweeps throughout the country to check for the illegal possession and use of unregistered computing equipment. Fines and penalties were not specified, but sources say that illegal possession will be considered to be a very serious offense, necessary for the freedom, safety and well-being of all Americans. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From kth at srv.net Thu Apr 1 10:55:47 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: Vernon Buerg "List" clone for "C" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <406C4993.5090603@srv.net> Don Maslin wrote: > >I was probably over inclusive when I spoke of a clone as far as >features are concerned. What I was thinking of was the ability to >be presented with a directory of files, select one with a cursor, >and display it a page at a time as List does. It also permits >calling up various archive opening ancillaries which can be rather >handy. A dialer and other esoteric 'capabilities' are of no >interest. I don't even use them in DOS. > >So within those limited boundries does anyone have any helpful >suggestions to offer. > > > Midnight Commander (mc). Comes with many Linux distributions. From lbickley at bickleywest.com Thu Apr 1 11:51:42 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: <20040401174522.GK1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040401174522.GK1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <200404010951.42797.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Excellent. I understand Microsoft had agreed to host the database on its highly secure Windows 2003 Servers. Lyle On Thursday 01 April 2004 09:45, R. D. Davis wrote: > April 1, 2004 > Associatid Press, Washington - The United States Federal > Communications Commission, as part of a joint project funded by the > Department of Defense, has approved measures to begin requiring US > consumers to obtain licenses for all new personal computers purchased > after January, 2005. > > "It's basically the same process that CB radio owners had to go > through in the 1970's, only we require a slight ammount of additional > information.", said Lance O. Onie, director of the FCC's PC Freedom > Initiative. > > Purchasers of new PCs will have to fill out a simple "one step" form, > with only the following information: The purchaser's Social Security > number, current address, e-mail address(es), date of birth, driver's > license number and the computer's CPU's unique serial number. > > "By requiring the driver's license number, we are able to simplify > things by not requiring consumers to be inconvenienced by having their > photos taken for inclusion in our database; we can just get that data > from the states in which they're licensed.", Onie was quick to point > out as a benifit of this simplified procedure. > > The user will be able to access the CPU's serial number through the > use of a computer program distributed on a CD ROM with each new PC > sold. The program must remain installed on the computer whenever the > computer is used with the Internet. > > Owners of older computers will be exempt from this new law until > December 25, 2006, "giving them plenty of time to upgrade their > systems as necessary in order to comply with the new law", says Onie, > who commented that this program will also be "very helpful to the > economy." > > After that time, the FCC will work with the CIA, state and local law > enforcement officials to conduct random high-tech sweeps throughout > the country to check for the illegal possession and use of > unregistered computing equipment. > > Fines and penalties were not specified, but sources say that illegal > possession will be considered to be a very serious offense, necessary > for the freedom, safety and well-being of all Americans. -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Apr 1 11:58:07 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: AIX In-Reply-To: <200404011144.38686.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Thursday 01 April 2004 11:25, William Donzelli wrote: > > Well, sort of. AIX has a custom kernel, but was designed to be easily > > ported to other architectures - namely Intel architectures. This is > > Erm, methinks this copy of AIX-PS/2 I have is older than any RS/6000... > so unless they used AIX on the RT/PC (which I don't think they did), > I'm going to go with "ported to other architectures - namely POWER". My PC/RT runs AIX v2.2. I _think_ AIX-POWER predates the PS/2 version, but I'm not certain. I would be glad to compare system file ctimes on the relative releases, if I had a copy of the PS/2 distribution. Hint, hint, wink wink.... Doc From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Apr 1 12:16:40 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: <200404010951.42797.lbickley@bickleywest.com> References: <20040401174522.GK1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <200404010951.42797.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: <20040401181640.GN1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Lyle Bickley, from writings of Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 09:51:42AM -0800: > Excellent. I understand Microsoft had agreed to host the database on its > highly secure Windows 2003 Servers. ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Isn't that the version of Windows where system crashes often corrupt the hard drive, clear the screen and display a "System Abnormality Occured" message and the words "Call Microsoft... We Only Want to Help You", followed by a 1-900 telephone number for Microsoft... a number that was one digit off and resulted in users getting a "Welcome to PornWorld" telephone greeting and a $500 charge added to their telephone bills even if they hung up the telephone immediately? -- Copyright (C) 2004 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Apr 1 12:04:17 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? In-Reply-To: Paul Koning "Re: working magnetic drum stores?" (Apr 1, 9:39) References: <16490.54904.78000.796185@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <16492.10668.341000.97701@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <10404011904.ZM5689@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 1, 9:39, Paul Koning wrote: > >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell writes: > Tony> You hope... If the power fails and your NiCd pack isn't any > Tony> good, then the heads will land on the platter with nasty > Tony> results... > > NiCd? You must be thinking of the big capacitors (not batteries) that > do the emergency head retract in the event of powerfail. Erm, in my RK05s there are NiCd packs which provide the power, and no capacitors in the way. > Tony> Anyway, the 'ting' when the heads load on an RK05 is claimed to > Tony> be the heads bouncing off the platter, so they may well touch > Tony> for an instant. > > I rather doubt that. The sound is no different from the "ting" sound > you hear when the head actuator seeks. It shouldn't 'ting' on a seek! That's a bad sign. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Apr 1 12:11:27 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: OT uudecode for windows Message-ID: <200404011811.KAA21301@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Does anyone know of w freebee uudecode for windows? Dwight From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Apr 1 12:20:53 2004 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: OT uudecode for windows In-Reply-To: <200404011811.KAA21301@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20040401131800.SM02600@bobdev> I have an old DOS based one, but I'm sure it doesn't support long filenames and it doesn't have a Windows GUY. It is: UU-DECODE 3.07 for PC. By Richard Marks. If you want it, let me know. -Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dwight K. Elvey Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 1:11 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: OT uudecode for windows Hi Does anyone know of w freebee uudecode for windows? Dwight From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Apr 1 12:21:26 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: OT uudecode for windows Message-ID: <0404011821.AA01239@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Does anyone know of w freebee uudecode for windows? If Weendoze can still run DOS executables, this should work for you: ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG:/pub/micro/msdos/interchange/uuencode/ MS From allain at panix.com Thu Apr 1 12:30:22 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: Vernon Buerg "List" clone for "C" References: Message-ID: <003f01c41817$65bb3aa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > What I was thinking of was the ability to be presented with > a directory of files, select one with a cursor, and display > it a page at a time as List does. What I do is open 'vi', perform a 'find' within it, then operate on individual lines. For files of different extensions I wrote a very simple launcher csh(ell script to do the object-oriented-open function. Kinda hackey, but still quicker than Windows in most situations. John A. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Apr 1 12:35:47 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: <20040401181640.GN1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040401174522.GK1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <200404010951.42797.lbickley@bickleywest.com> <20040401181640.GN1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <1080844547.18323.176.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-04-01 at 19:16, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe Lyle Bickley, from writings of Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 09:51:42AM -0800: > > > Excellent. I understand Microsoft had agreed to host the database on its > > highly secure Windows 2003 Servers. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Isn't that the version of Windows where system crashes often corrupt > the hard drive, ... you're on a roll here, huh? :-) From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Apr 1 12:39:33 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? References: <16490.54904.78000.796185@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <16492.10668.341000.97701@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <10404011904.ZM5689@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <16492.25061.404922.693453@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Pete" == Pete Turnbull writes: Pete> On Apr 1, 9:39, Paul Koning wrote: >> >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell writes: Tony> You hope... If the power fails and your NiCd pack isn't any Tony> good, then the heads will land on the platter with nasty Tony> results... >> NiCd? You must be thinking of the big capacitors (not batteries) >> that do the emergency head retract in the event of powerfail. Pete> Erm, in my RK05s there are NiCd packs which provide the power, Pete> and no capacitors in the way. I must have been thinking about the larger drives (RP04 and friends)... paul From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Apr 1 13:07:46 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: <1080844547.18323.176.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <20040401174522.GK1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <200404010951.42797.lbickley@bickleywest.com> <20040401181640.GN1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <1080844547.18323.176.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040401190746.GP1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Jules Richardson, from writings of Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 07:35:47PM +0100: > you're on a roll here, huh? :-) After reading the Dilbert comic strip this morning, I can only say: "I hope not!" -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Apr 1 12:58:52 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: <20040401174522.GK1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040401174522.GK1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3207.65.123.179.146.1080845932.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> It looks like the Patriot Act has been used to allow big brother to become BIG(gest) BROTHER. It is time for a change in our leadership -- remember this on November 2nd, 2004. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO > April 1, 2004 > Associatid Press, Washington - The United States Federal > Communications Commission, as part of a joint project funded by the > Department of Defense, has approved measures to begin requiring US > consumers to obtain licenses for all new personal computers purchased > after January, 2005. > > "It's basically the same process that CB radio owners had to go > through in the 1970's, only we require a slight ammount of additional > information.", said Lance O. Onie, director of the FCC's PC Freedom > Initiative. > > Purchasers of new PCs will have to fill out a simple "one step" form, > with only the following information: The purchaser's Social Security > number, current address, e-mail address(es), date of birth, driver's > license number and the computer's CPU's unique serial number. > > "By requiring the driver's license number, we are able to simplify > things by not requiring consumers to be inconvenienced by having their > photos taken for inclusion in our database; we can just get that data > from the states in which they're licensed.", Onie was quick to point > out as a benifit of this simplified procedure. > > The user will be able to access the CPU's serial number through the > use of a computer program distributed on a CD ROM with each new PC > sold. The program must remain installed on the computer whenever the > computer is used with the Internet. > > Owners of older computers will be exempt from this new law until > December 25, 2006, "giving them plenty of time to upgrade their > systems as necessary in order to comply with the new law", says Onie, > who commented that this program will also be "very helpful to the > economy." > > After that time, the FCC will work with the CIA, state and local law > enforcement officials to conduct random high-tech sweeps throughout > the country to check for the illegal possession and use of > unregistered computing equipment. > > Fines and penalties were not specified, but sources say that illegal > possession will be considered to be a very serious offense, necessary > for the freedom, safety and well-being of all Americans. > > -- > Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other > animals: > All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief tha From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Apr 1 13:20:09 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: <3207.65.123.179.146.1080845932.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> References: <20040401174522.GK1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <3207.65.123.179.146.1080845932.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 ghldbrd@ccp.com wrote: > It looks like the Patriot Act has been used to allow big brother to become > BIG(gest) BROTHER. > > It is time for a change in our leadership -- remember this on November > 2nd, 2004. Not that I don't whole-heartedly agree with you politically - BUT - do check the date again on this 'press release'.... Cheerz John From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Apr 1 13:28:05 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Lawson > Sent: 01 April 2004 20:20 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers > > > It is time for a change in our leadership -- remember this on > > November 2nd, 2004. > > > Not that I don't whole-heartedly agree with you politically > - BUT - do check the date again on this 'press release'.... And the name of the 'correspondent' :) w From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Apr 1 13:47:55 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: References: <20040401174522.GK1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <3207.65.123.179.146.1080845932.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: <20040401194755.GQ1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe John Lawson, from writings of Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 02:20:09PM -0500: > Not that I don't whole-heartedly agree with you politically - BUT - do > check the date again on this 'press release'.... Yes... (and also the purposefully incorrect spelling of "Associated" and a name can be seen as LOonie). Darn... It looks as though I forgot to add "April Fool!" to that article that I may possibly be rumoured to have possibly written this morning... to think that some people would actually take it seriously! :-) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Apr 1 14:03:07 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: <20040401174522.GK1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040401174522.GK1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20040401115529.C38955@newshell.lmi.net> On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, R. D. Davis wrote: > The user will be able to access the CPU's serial number through the > use of a computer program distributed on a CD ROM with each new PC > sold. The program must remain installed on the computer whenever the > computer is used with the Internet. That program requires that the computer be running Windoze XP, and have Office 2003 running, since it interacts with the files used by Clippy (which must be enabled and active) > Owners of older computers will be exempt from this new law until > December 25, 2006, "giving them plenty of time to upgrade their > systems as necessary in order to comply with the new law", says Onie, > who commented that this program will also be "very helpful to the > economy." That extension of time is only for machines running XP. > After that time, the FCC will work with the CIA, state and local law > enforcement officials to conduct random high-tech sweeps throughout > the country to check for the illegal possession and use of > unregistered computing equipment. The checks will NOT be random. They will be systematic, and thorough. EVERY machine must be connected to the internet and have it's ID program running at 4:00 PM of every day. > Fines and penalties were not specified, but sources say that illegal > possession will be considered to be a very serious offense, necessary > for the freedom, safety and well-being of all Americans. MOST transgressions will be handled by special internet software that will destroy non-compliant hardware, using code very similar to what was in the "Good Times" virus. From pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org Thu Apr 1 14:44:15 2004 From: pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers References: <20040401174522.GK1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org><3207.65.123.179.146.1080845932.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> <20040401194755.GQ1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <00ab01c4182a$1986e360$4601a8c0@ebrius> Using the Internet should require a license. You should have to be able to log into a Unix (or any other non PC-DOS/MS-DOS text based OS shell) and be able to check your email with a text based email program, and view a website with a text based browser, and log out again, or write a simple DCL script without the manual. This would eliminate all Internet congestion over night, and us geeks could have our toy back. "You fool! Now we may never know if ants can be trained to sort tiny screws in space." -------------------------------------------------------------- Website - http://www.retrobbs.org Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org BBS - telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 IRC - irc.retrobbs.org #main WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 1 14:16:50 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: <20040401194755.GQ1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040401174522.GK1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <3207.65.123.179.146.1080845932.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> <20040401194755.GQ1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: >Darn... It looks as though I forgot to add "April Fool!" to that >article that I may possibly be rumoured to have possibly written this >morning... to think that some people would actually take it seriously! >:-) You had better just hope that it doesn't give certain people ideas! It rings a little to true.... Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Apr 1 14:20:09 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers Message-ID: <0404012020.AA01439@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Mark Firestone wrote: > Using the Internet should require a license. You should have to be able to > log into a Unix (or any other non PC-DOS/MS-DOS text based OS shell) and be > able to check your email with a text based email program, and view a website > with a text based browser, and log out again, or write a simple DCL script > without the manual. > > This would eliminate all Internet congestion over night, and us geeks could > have our toy back. YES!!! Full agreement! -MS, who is typing this on a VT320 logged into UNIX on a VAX and sending it with the original Berkeley Mail program, and who does NOT own or have a PeeCee, has NO graphics capability at all at the present, and has NO web access except with Lynx. And guess what, my Spartan setup is perfectly sufficient for my current project of designing a new VAX chip! Nothing beats writing Verilog for a VAX CPU in vi on a VT320. From donm at cts.com Thu Apr 1 14:49:48 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: Vernon Buerg "List" clone for "C" In-Reply-To: <406C4993.5090603@srv.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Kevin Handy wrote: > Don Maslin wrote: > > > > >I was probably over inclusive when I spoke of a clone as far as > >features are concerned. What I was thinking of was the ability to > >be presented with a directory of files, select one with a cursor, > >and display it a page at a time as List does. It also permits > >calling up various archive opening ancillaries which can be rather > >handy. A dialer and other esoteric 'capabilities' are of no > >interest. I don't even use them in DOS. > > > >So within those limited boundries does anyone have any helpful > >suggestions to offer. > > > > > > > Midnight Commander (mc). Comes with many Linux distributions. Thanks! - don From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Apr 1 14:56:00 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:20:09 PST." <0404012020.AA01439@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200404012056.i31Ku0021723@mwave.heeltoe.com> Michael Sokolov wrote: >Nothing beats writing Verilog for a VAX CPU in vi on a VT320. Well, I might use emacs, myself, but I whole heartedly agree! (and I might add that I've always been partial to 'Hazeltine' green :-) Just curious - are you using iverilog? I tried it for a simple PAL but have not yet done any serious .v files yet. Looks promising... I wonder about viewing waveforms, however. -brad From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Apr 1 15:02:47 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers Message-ID: <0404012102.AA01499@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Brad Parker wrote: > Just curious - are you using iverilog? Yes. > I wonder about viewing waveforms, however. Well, it says you can use GTKWave, and I assume it works, but I myself don't need any pretty pictures: I personally can see whether my logic works right or not from textual simulation output better than from pics. My brain prefers text to graphics in absolutely every area of life. MS From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 1 15:18:24 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: <20040401194755.GQ1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On 1 Apr 2004, R. D. Davis wrote: > Darn... It looks as though I forgot to add "April Fool!" to that > article that I may possibly be rumoured to have possibly written this > morning... to think that some people would actually take it seriously! > :-) It's a sad commentary on the state of the nation when, caught off-guard, you can actually take an article like that as plausible. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From lbickley at bickleywest.com Thu Apr 1 15:36:55 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200404011336.55037.lbickley@bickleywest.com> On Thursday 01 April 2004 13:18, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > It's a sad commentary on the state of the nation when, caught off-guard, > you can actually take an article like that as plausible. Remember "You can always fool some of the people some of the time..." Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Apr 1 15:39:42 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: <0404012102.AA01499@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040401163346.04a477d8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Michael Sokolov may have mentioned these words: >[snip] My brain prefers >text to graphics in absolutely every area of life. Including Porn??? :-O ;-) In linux, the multimedia player "mplayer" will play just about any movie file in a text screen, substituting ascii chars for pixelgroups... quite an interesting thing to see... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Profile, don't speculate." sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Daniel J. Bernstein zmerch@30below.com | From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Apr 1 15:53:30 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: References: <20040401194755.GQ1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20040401215330.GR1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Vintage Computer Festival, from writings of Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 01:18:24PM -0800: > It's a sad commentary on the state of the nation when, caught off-guard, > you can actually take an article like that as plausible. Indeed it is, alas. Now to wait for the knock at the door at 3:00AM, after some idiot in some government agency sees that joke and doesn't find it to be funny. Bureaucrats have no sense of humor. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Apr 1 15:50:07 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers Message-ID: <0404012150.AA01564@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Roger Merchberger wrote: > >[snip] My brain prefers > >text to graphics in absolutely every area of life. > > Including Porn??? :-O ;-) Well, since I'm absolutely loyal to my fiance, I am not interested in porn, but for those who are, yes you CAN have ASCII porn. Not too long ago I was chatting on IRC and a gal joined the channel I was on. Some guy asked her if he could see her tits. She replied: (@) (@) So ASCII works for porn too. MS From akb+lists.cctech at imap1.mirror.to Thu Apr 1 15:51:54 2004 From: akb+lists.cctech at imap1.mirror.to (akb+lists.cctech@imap1.mirror.to) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: fwd: wanted: xxdp v1 handbook, available: running pdp11-84, US west coast Message-ID: <0q3c7nwemd.fsf@lanconius.mirror.to> Forwarded... contact original author with any help or inquiries; he's not on the cctech list. Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:17:13 -0800 From: Mike Koon To: [...] Subject: xxdp v1 handbook,and running pdp11-84 [...] My name is Mike Koon, and I maintain PDP 11-70's and an 11-84 at a west coast newspaper. We will be removing these running machines any time between May 1,2004, and August sometime. Are you interested in having these for your museum? They have an interesting device attached to them, called a PCL, which was a early DEC networking system. I haven't talked to the owner, but I would think that they would give them to you. Let me know. Also, I am Looking for a copy of the XXDP-11M+ Diagnostic handbook, or Card. I am looking for the procedure for building a v-1 diag. tape, from disk, to tape. Let me know - Mike Koon Mike Koon@comcast.net From tablab at kellerits.com Thu Apr 1 09:46:05 2004 From: tablab at kellerits.com (Lenna Berg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: timex sinclar 1000 Message-ID: <20040401153831.7588844C0B6@ns1.kellerits.com> I still have one that my dad purchased it is still in its original Styrofoam with manual and all the parts I even have the warrantee page and the page with the types of cassette players and TVs it is not compatible with and a program my dad wrote for it my husband was laid off and we need the money or I would hold on to it. It is the first home computer he ever bought I remember going with him to get it Let me know if you are still interested in it and how much you might be willing to pay for it I can send you a picture if you wish tablab@kellerits.com From ggs at shiresoft.com Thu Apr 1 16:23:27 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: AIX In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1080858207.6190.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-04-01 at 08:25, William Donzelli wrote: > > Umm, no. AIX has nothing in common with OS/400. > > My source is "Introduction to the RS/6000", and official IBM document from > the very beginning of the line. If you give me some time, I could find the > book and give the IBM number. It is a thick engineering/sales freebie, and > has quite a few details of the internals of POWER and AIX (although not > enough to do anything fun). It states that a some of the aspects of AIX > were taken from OS/400 (I think aspects of the file system, but don't > quote me on that until I find the book). Maybe some design concepts, but there was *no* code in common. > > > It is true that the AIX kernel (on POWER & PPC) was a custom written > > control program (written at T.J. Watson Research Center) with UNIX > > semanitics layered on top. This was to take full advantage of the > > POWER's architecture (especially in the VM area) that would have been > > too much work to adapt a "standard" unix kernel to. > > Well, sort of. AIX has a custom kernel, but was designed to be easily > ported to other architectures - namely Intel architectures. This is also > mentioned in the above document. This actually happened with the T386 and > T960 router cards, used with the old NSFnet RS/6000-T3Bs. Each router card > runs a cut down AIX on 80386 or 80960 microprocessors, and hadles all of > the routing duties - the RS/6000 is just there for the ride, > basically. These routing cards today are rarer than hen's teeth (look for > extra thick MCA cards (T960), or even extra tall ones (T386)). No, the AIX kernel was *not* easily ported to other architectures. That's why OSF chose Mach for the OSF/1 kernel. I've been through the AIX kernel source (used to work in Austin) and I can tell you it is *very* specific to the POWER architecture. The VM (which permeates the entire kernel -- address space is free) is welded to the POWER's MMU design. -- TTFN - Guy From ggs at shiresoft.com Thu Apr 1 16:25:56 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: AIX In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1080858355.6190.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-04-01 at 09:58, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > On Thursday 01 April 2004 11:25, William Donzelli wrote: > > > Well, sort of. AIX has a custom kernel, but was designed to be easily > > > ported to other architectures - namely Intel architectures. This is > > > > Erm, methinks this copy of AIX-PS/2 I have is older than any RS/6000... > > so unless they used AIX on the RT/PC (which I don't think they did), > > I'm going to go with "ported to other architectures - namely POWER". > > My PC/RT runs AIX v2.2. > > I _think_ AIX-POWER predates the PS/2 version, but I'm not certain. I > would be glad to compare system file ctimes on the relative releases, if > I had a copy of the PS/2 distribution. > > Hint, hint, wink wink.... > Remember AIX is *any* *IX that IBM sells/sold. There was also an AIX/370. There was little to no code sharing between AIX/RT, AIX PS/2 (AIX/370 and AIX PS/2 actually shared alot of code -- but that was on purpose -- they were designed as complimentary products) and what we know and love as current AIX on POWER and PPC. > > Doc -- TTFN - Guy From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 1 16:33:48 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040401163346.04a477d8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Roger Merchberger wrote: > In linux, the multimedia player "mplayer" will play just about any movie > file in a text screen, substituting ascii chars for pixelgroups... quite an > interesting thing to see... Now, THAT my friends, THAT is COOL!!! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 1 16:34:47 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: <0404012150.AA01564@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > >[snip] My brain prefers > > >text to graphics in absolutely every area of life. > > > > Including Porn??? :-O ;-) > > Well, since I'm absolutely loyal to my fiance, I am not interested in porn, but > for those who are, yes you CAN have ASCII porn. Not too long ago I was chatting > on IRC and a gal joined the channel I was on. Some guy asked her if he could > see her tits. She replied: > > (@) (@) I just printed that out and am going to the bathroom. I'll be back in 5 minutes. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 1 16:44:32 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? In-Reply-To: <16492.10668.341000.97701@gargle.gargle.HOWL> from "Paul Koning" at Apr 1, 4 09:39:40 am Message-ID: > Tony> You hope... If the power fails and your NiCd pack isn't any > Tony> good, then the heads will land on the platter with nasty > Tony> results... > > NiCd? You must be thinking of the big capacitors (not batteries) that > do the emergency head retract in the event of powerfail. No, I am thinking of the 4-cell NiCd pack (look to be 1/2AA size cells -- it's certainly the same pack is in some cordless phones) on top of the PSU chassis (rear left) in an RK05. It's connected to the positioner coil via one of the relay contacts and the home microswitch to cause an emergency retract if the relay drops out i.e. if the mains fails. It's certainly a battery and not a capacitor. I do know the difference, I've read the RK05 printset, and in fact I've replaced the batteries in all my RK05s (and, indeed my RK07s, which have an 8-cell pack under the chassis). > > Tony> Anyway, the 'ting' when the heads load on an RK05 is claimed to > Tony> be the heads bouncing off the platter, so they may well touch > Tony> for an instant. > > I rather doubt that. The sound is no different from the "ting" sound > you hear when the head actuator seeks. I can certainly tell the difference. There is a very metallic ring when the heads load, but not when they seek. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 1 16:49:20 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: <20040401174522.GK1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Apr 1, 4 12:45:22 pm Message-ID: > "It's basically the same process that CB radio owners had to go > through in the 1970's, only we require a slight ammount of additional > information.", said Lance O. Onie, director of the FCC's PC Freedom > Initiative. Is he relatated to Loof Lipra? > > Purchasers of new PCs will have to fill out a simple "one step" form, > with only the following information: The purchaser's Social Security > number, current address, e-mail address(es), date of birth, driver's > license number and the computer's CPU's unique serial number. What do I do if I don't have a drivers license? What do I do if my machine doesn't have a CPU serial number, or if that number can be trivially changed using tools I have available, like soldering iron, cutters, or a prom programmer ? One of my machines has 3 software-readable serial numbers, for the CPU/IO board, for the memory/vidro board, and for the cabinet. Which do I quote? ObCC. What machine is that? Bob _should_ get it instantly, as I suspect he wants one. A good clue : the main processor is a 68020, but there are also a couple of 29116s in there. -tony From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Thu Apr 1 13:44:41 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: OT uudecode for windows In-Reply-To: <200404011811.KAA21301@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040401204314.0334ff40@pop.freeserve.net> At 10:11 01/04/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Hi > Does anyone know of w freebee uudecode for windows? >Dwight WinZIP will happily cope with uuencoded files - just copy it to a text file with (or rename it to have) a file extension .uue Rob. From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Apr 1 17:00:56 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040401163346.04a477d8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that Michael Sokolov may have mentioned these words: > >[snip] My brain prefers > >text to graphics in absolutely every area of life. > > Including Porn??? :-O ;-) Actually, for me, absolutely. :^) I like "erotic literature", but there hasn't been any decent visual porn produced in the US since around the time Madonna posed for Playboy. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Apr 1 17:06:34 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: AIX In-Reply-To: <1080858355.6190.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > On Thu, 2004-04-01 at 09:58, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > > My PC/RT runs AIX v2.2. > > > > I _think_ AIX-POWER predates the PS/2 version, but I'm not certain. I > > would be glad to compare system file ctimes on the relative releases, if > > I had a copy of the PS/2 distribution. > > > > Hint, hint, wink wink.... > > Remember AIX is *any* *IX that IBM sells/sold. There was also an > AIX/370. There was little to no code sharing between AIX/RT, AIX PS/2 > (AIX/370 and AIX PS/2 actually shared alot of code -- but that was on > purpose -- they were designed as complimentary products) and what we > know and love as current AIX on POWER and PPC. Oh, I know, but I'd still love to have a PS/2 running IBM "unix". I have to agree, though, that I haven't found a lot of similarity between what's installed on the RT and what I run on my 43Ps. Doc From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Apr 1 17:17:57 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > In linux, the multimedia player "mplayer" will play just about any movie > > file in a text screen, substituting ascii chars for pixelgroups... quite an > > interesting thing to see... > > Now, THAT my friends, THAT is COOL!!! > If you think that's cool, you should try TTY Quake sometime... g. From ceby2 at csc.com Thu Apr 1 17:40:55 2004 From: ceby2 at csc.com (Colin Eby) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: AIX Message-ID: All -- < RANT_MODE=1 > Sorry, I never could pass up an internecine fued of the UNIXes.... I'd like to go on the record. I love AIX. And there are a couple of bullet points we've missed in our description of it. The most important is its underlying object repository. This may have been the seed of the AIX vs. AS/400 thread. AIX invented the central system registry long before Microsoft. That's the engine behind its package and device management. It's the underlying engine most of the standard admin commands ultimately converse with. Very un-UNIX - and thank you to the IBM _wunderkinder_ for that. UNIX is a wonderful thing, but why must we live in a timewarp where anything not envisioned in the 1980s isn't "real UNIX". Let's move on shall we? Linux is a good example. It's based on a complete rewrite of Minix, itself a complete rewrite of AT&T System V. By all means, let's preserve the vintage, and don't throw the baby out with the bath water. But why should the UNIX community turn Luddite? IBM as we've all said, did a rewrite of the kernel. Rather than porting System V and glomming on some Berkely additions, IBM re-engineered the code from scratch. In the upcoming version, they are doing it again to accomodate even more robust enterprise configurations with sub-CPU LPARs and mainframe like accounting/management facilities on a rapidly advancing 64-bit CPU design. It's my own assessment they are moving AIX to the top of the tree for big iron, and moving the zOS hardware toward commodity Linux VMing. It's a move that follows the market's application development trend for enterprise systems. Thee development community writes more for big Unix, so this is perfectly sensible. Just to keep this post from being too out of thread, I might just mention my 10 year old 990 and 390 RS/6000s are still wonderful machines to work on now. I use the 390 as a graphic station (if you could believe it). It scans and GIMPs with the best of them. Only compression routines make it slow down. The I/O's faster than the laptop I'm writing this post on. Okay, < RANT_MODE=0 > Colin From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Apr 1 17:54:41 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers References: Message-ID: <406CABC1.7060708@jetnet.ab.ca> Doc Shipley wrote: > On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Roger Merchberger wrote: Actually, for me, absolutely. :^) > > I like "erotic literature", but there hasn't been any decent visual > porn produced in the US since around the time Madonna posed for Playboy. Speaking of PORN, I miss the huge LINE PRINTER calendars that had pin-up girls and other modern graphics. Anybody have luck getting the old Fortran programs working on the new machines? Ben. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Apr 1 14:39:36 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? In-Reply-To: <16492.10668.341000.97701@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16490.54904.78000.796185@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <16492.10668.341000.97701@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040401203936.GA1942@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 09:39:40AM -0500, Paul Koning wrote: > >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell writes: > > >> Drives like the RK05 retract the heads as part of spindown, so the > >> heads never land on the platter. > > Tony> You hope... If the power fails and your NiCd pack isn't any > Tony> good, then the heads will land on the platter with nasty > Tony> results... > > NiCd? You must be thinking of the big capacitors (not batteries) that > do the emergency head retract in the event of powerfail. Tony is correct. RK05 and RK06/RK07 drives use 3-cell NiCd packs. I've had to rebuild several. Dunno what RK03s use, though. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 01-Apr-2004 20:31 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -35 F (-37.3 C) Windchill -95.90 F (-71.09 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 21.2 kts Grid 337 Barometer 682.9 mb (10516. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Apr 1 18:03:44 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3779.65.123.179.117.1080864224.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Iv "Ben" Hadd. Gary >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Lawson >> Sent: 01 April 2004 20:20 >> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >> Subject: Re: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers >> >> > It is time for a change in our leadership -- remember this on >> > November 2nd, 2004. >> >> >> Not that I don't whole-heartedly agree with you politically >> - BUT - do check the date again on this 'press release'.... > > And the name of the 'correspondent' :) > > w > > From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu Apr 1 18:39:00 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:37 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: <20040401181640.GN1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: >>> Isn't that the version of Windows where system crashes >>> often corrupt the hard drive, clear the screen and display >>> a "System Abnormality Occured" message and the words "Call >>> Microsoft... We Only Want to Help You", followed by a 1-900 >>> telephone number for Microsoft... a number that was one >>> digit off and resulted in users getting a "Welcome to >>> PornWorld" telephone greeting and a $500 charge added to >>> their telephone bills even if they hung up the telephone >>> immediately? The above is incorrect, misleading and just plain mean! The charge was only $395! From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Apr 1 18:45:43 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: AIX In-Reply-To: <1080858207.6190.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: > Maybe some design concepts, but there was *no* code in common. That is all I (or rather, the book) is claiming. I am not implying that they ever shared code. > No, the AIX kernel was *not* easily ported to other architectures. > That's why OSF chose Mach for the OSF/1 kernel. I've been through the > AIX kernel source (used to work in Austin) and I can tell you it is > *very* specific to the POWER architecture. The VM (which permeates the > entire kernel -- address space is free) is welded to the POWER's MMU > design. Well, I will have to go and find the book (which could take a long time), but I am pretty sure it was a major design goal for that version (AIX 3, I think?), and as I stated, was ported to other architectures that are not very POWER. If the book is misleading - well, then I have been misled. However, it is an official IBM document. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From dholland at woh.rr.com Thu Apr 1 18:48:01 2004 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1080866881.18187.17.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> If first person shooters are too much of a twitch game for anyone... Try the interactive fiction version of quake.. http://loonyboi.com/if/quake/index.htm Quake... Zork Style. :-) David On Thu, 2004-04-01 at 18:17, Gene Buckle wrote: > > On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > > > In linux, the multimedia player "mplayer" will play just about any movie > > > file in a text screen, substituting ascii chars for pixelgroups... quite an > > > interesting thing to see... > > > > Now, THAT my friends, THAT is COOL!!! > > > > If you think that's cool, you should try TTY Quake sometime... > > g. > From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Thu Apr 1 19:16:46 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: ASCII Art (Was Re: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers) In-Reply-To: <406CABC1.7060708@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <406CABC1.7060708@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <406CBEFE.3090207@4mcnabb.net> > Speaking of PORN, I miss the huge LINE PRINTER calendars that had pin-up girls and other > modern graphics. Anybody have luck getting the old Fortran programs working on the new > machines? Well, it's not strictly porno, but I do have the Mona Lisa printed out on nice wide green-bar paper hanging in my cube. I also have the Basic Plus program and data file. I think that www.textfiles.com might have a bunch of ASCII art, if they are still around. From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Apr 1 20:08:16 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: Help with early Mac serial numbers Message-ID: <012e01c41857$5ddf8e90$56406b43@66067007> I pulled one of my early 128k Mac's from storage for part of a Apple display I'm doing on the 17th and was trying to find out the breakdown of the serial number. The number on the unit is F40220FM0001 and I'm guessing that the two F's are just there for show and that 40220 is the serial number and M0001 is the model number? Is this correct? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Apr 1 20:05:01 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: <3207.65.123.179.146.1080845932.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> References: <20040401174522.GK1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <20040401174522.GK1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040401210501.00975b50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:58 PM 4/1/04 -0600, Gary Hildebrand wrote: >It looks like the Patriot Act has been used to allow big brother to become >BIG(gest) BROTHER. > >It is time for a change in our leadership -- remember this on November >2nd, 2004. Do you REALLY think anything will be different under the democrats!? If you do then I have a bridge to sell you! Joe From sastevens at earthlink.net Thu Apr 1 20:20:49 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040401163346.04a477d8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <20040401212049.1b171afc.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:33:48 -0800 (PST) Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > In linux, the multimedia player "mplayer" will play just about any movie > > file in a text screen, substituting ascii chars for pixelgroups... quite an > > interesting thing to see... > > Now, THAT my friends, THAT is COOL!!! > I suspect it could get a little sluggish, though, when viewed on a VT220 over a 9600 baud serial connection. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 1 21:41:20 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? In-Reply-To: <20040401203936.GA1942@bos7.spole.gov> from "Ethan Dicks" at Apr 1, 4 08:39:36 pm Message-ID: > Tony is correct. RK05 and RK06/RK07 drives use 3-cell NiCd packs. I've 3 cell? My RK05s have 4 cells, RK07s have 8... > had to rebuild several. Dunno what RK03s use, though. Nothing. The RK03 (Diablo model 30) have a head load solenoid that lifts the heads off the platter when de-energised. This obviously does the Right THing if the power fails. -tony From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Apr 1 21:56:04 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: <1080866881.18187.17.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> Message-ID: > If first person shooters are too much of a twitch game for anyone... > > Try the interactive fiction version of quake.. > > http://loonyboi.com/if/quake/index.htm > > Quake... Zork Style. :-) > Oof. I bow to their 1337 ski11z. ;) That's probably the coolest hack I've ever seen. Ok, not the coolest. The coolest was using a 10 story building as a Tetris playfield. :) g. From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Apr 1 21:57:09 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: ASCII Art (Was Re: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers) In-Reply-To: <406CBEFE.3090207@4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: > Well, it's not strictly porno, but I do have the Mona Lisa printed out > on nice wide green-bar paper hanging in my cube. I also have the Basic > Plus program and data file. > > I think that www.textfiles.com might have a bunch of ASCII art, if they > are still around. > Jason is very much still around. Check out http://www.bbsdocumentary.com. g. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Apr 1 21:54:53 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: working magnetic drum stores? In-Reply-To: References: <20040401203936.GA1942@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <20040402035453.GA12723@bos7.spole.gov> On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 04:41:20AM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > > Tony is correct. RK05 and RK06/RK07 drives use 3-cell NiCd packs. I've > > 3 cell? My RK05s have 4 cells, RK07s have 8... Whoops... too many years since I've been inside one. My mistake. > Nothing. The RK03 (Diablo model 30) have a head load solenoid that lifts > the heads off the platter when de-energised. This obviously does the > Right THing if the power fails. That's comforting. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 02-Apr-2004 03:51 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -31.8 F (-35.5 C) Windchill -97.5 F (-72 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 26.5 kts Grid 317 Barometer 683.4 mb (10500. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Apr 1 22:36:57 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040401210501.00975b50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <20040401174522.GK1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <20040401174522.GK1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <3.0.6.32.20040401210501.00975b50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040402043657.GS1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Joe R., from writings of Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 09:05:01PM -0500: > Do you REALLY think anything will be different under the democrats!? Aside from a different Skullbone (Bonehead?) in Chief, there will be at least one difference: the nation will move even closer to towards being a complete totalitarian socialist state. Neither candidate appears concerned with solving any of this nation's biggest ills such as confiscatory levels of taxation (although people with very large incomes and families with children get nice income tax breaks, the rest of us get screwed to make up for it, and we're all equal victims of the many other taxes), an increasingly annoying and dangerous continued transformation of a once free nation that valued freedom and liberty into a totalitarian "nanny state", overpopulation and excessive land destruction ("development"), once safe and prosperous cities that have been transmogrified into dangerous deteriorating jungles (one can thank the promoters of a welfare state in exchange for minority votes for that), excessive overseas job/career outsourcing; grossly overpaid, corrupt and wasteful politicians; the dangerous problem of middle-income salaries being eliminated with "job growth" coming from low-paying service jobs, an out-of-control pharmaceutical industry pushing certain unnecessary drugs off on people who don't truly need them and are harmed by them---assisted by politicians and physicians, a false economy based on growth rather than stability, etc., to name just a few things that few US politicians want to discuss. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Apr 1 23:18:57 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200404020524.AAA07360@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >>> My brain prefers text to graphics in absolutely every area of life. >> Including Porn??? :-O ;-) > Actually, for me, absolutely. :^) Me, well, sometimes. > I like "erotic literature", but there hasn't been any decent visual > porn produced in the US since around the time Madonna posed for > Playboy. I have seen very little good work, but I suspect a lot has actually been done and just hasn't, shall we say, achieved market penetration enough to have been noticed. (In particular, there are a number of things that I would find _fiercely_ erotic that, while entirely mainstream, seem from my limited sample to approximately never show up in mass-market porn. The reasons for this make an interesting subject for speculation....) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Apr 1 23:41:51 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: AIX In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040402054151.GT1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Colin Eby, from writings of Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 06:40:55PM -0500: > preserve the vintage, and don't throw the baby out with the bath water. But > why should the UNIX community turn Luddite? Surely you don't think that there are any Luddite's on this list. One comment though: if something works, what sense is there in changing it? -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Apr 1 23:46:06 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: IBM PC-RT (was: AIX) In-Reply-To: References: <1080858355.6190.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040402054606.GU1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Doc Shipley, from writings of Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 05:06:34PM -0600: > I have to agree, though, that I haven't found a lot of similarity between > what's installed on the RT and what I run on my 43Ps. Speaking of the RT, did anyone ever get these to work with any sort of easily obtainable hard drives? Finding ESDI drives that would work was somewhat of a pain, and is why I stopped using my RT (hmmm... I wonder if it still works?) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Apr 1 23:53:37 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: IBM PC-RT (was: AIX) In-Reply-To: <20040402054606.GU1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On 2 Apr 2004, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe Doc Shipley, from writings of Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 05:06:34PM -0600: > > I have to agree, though, that I haven't found a lot of similarity between > > what's installed on the RT and what I run on my 43Ps. > > Speaking of the RT, did anyone ever get these to work with any sort of > easily obtainable hard drives? Finding ESDI drives that would work was > somewhat of a pain, and is why I stopped using my RT (hmmm... I wonder > if it still works?) Mine's running an old ISA Dell I/O card with 2x 5.25" floppy drives and a Seagate 280MB IDE Medalist hanging off it. I have the bookmark for the instructions somewhere, but it boils down to needing an IDE adapter that's pretty brainless, and that either has no serial ports or can be turned off, a Seagate Medalist <2GB, a goat, and 2 plucked chickens. I seriously did have to beat the drive repeatedly with the AOS LL-format utility to get it running. After it took a BSD filesystem, it then happily accepted TLC from the VM tools. Apparently, *only* the Medalist line supports an arcane instruction or sense bit or something that the ESDI adapter used and the system firmware wants to see. And, at this point, I'm not sure that a <2GB Medalist qualifies as "easily obtainable". ;) At that point I was able to power up the RT without dimming my office lights. Three very tired E70s suck some serious amps spooling up. I'd dearly love to snarf a mouse and a Matrox graphics adapter for the thing, but it's one of my pride & joy items just as it is. Doc From freddyboomboom at comcast.net Thu Apr 1 21:22:25 2004 From: freddyboomboom at comcast.net (Andrew Prince) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: HP 200LX In-Reply-To: <006101c417e9$2700d000$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <005901c41788$7b41d6c0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <200404010610.i316Ad9L008664@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <006101c417e9$2700d000$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <1080876145.2044.19.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2004-04-01 at 07:59, Jay West wrote: > It acts like it doesn't recognize the card. If I do a fdisk100, it says > something to the effect that "fdisk not supported on drive a", and if I do a > format "cannot format drive a". > I am the first owner of the 200LX and I have never used > any pcmcia devices in it, perhaps it is broken? I hate to spend money on > another CD & PCMCIA adapter if it's broken :\ > The CF card I use is a Sandisk SDCFB, also. Are you running the cic100 card and socket services driver? Go to a DOS prompt and run mem /c to find out. If you aren't running it, you won't be able to use any flash cards, and most other PCMCIA cards also. If you need to run it, it is in the d: drive in ROM. In the bin directory. If you boot the 200LX without an autoexec.bat and config.sys in the c: drive, it uses the ones in d: by default. You can also hit the alt key right after booting to tell it to boot from the d: drive. Remember that booting will turn on the serial port, so you need to go into setup and turn it off so it doesn't drain the batteries too soon. A nice program for doing that is ppal.exe. TTFN Andrew From cctalk at drykid.plus.com Fri Apr 2 00:48:29 2004 From: cctalk at drykid.plus.com (Ian West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: Help with early Mac serial numbers References: <012e01c41857$5ddf8e90$56406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <005a01c4187e$82395d80$0100a8c0@acmeqax5pma6my> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keys" To: "cctalk@classiccmp" Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 3:08 AM Subject: Help with early Mac serial numbers > I pulled one of my early 128k Mac's from storage for part of a Apple display > I'm doing on the 17th and was trying to find out the breakdown of the serial > number. The number on the unit is F40220FM0001 and I'm guessing that the two > F's are just there for show and that 40220 is the serial number and M0001 is > the model number? Is this correct? > According to: http://macfaq.org/serial.html "Your Mac 128 (M0001), with serial number F40220FM0001, was the 2607th manufactured during the 2th week of 1984 in Fremont, CA." There's also an explanation on that page of how the serial number is broken down. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Apr 2 01:16:36 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: ASCII Art (Was Re: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers) In-Reply-To: Christopher McNabb "ASCII Art (Was Re: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers)" (Apr 1, 20:16) References: <406CABC1.7060708@jetnet.ab.ca> <406CBEFE.3090207@4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <10404020816.ZM6294@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 1, 20:16, Christopher McNabb wrote: > Well, it's not strictly porno, but I do have the Mona Lisa printed out > on nice wide green-bar paper hanging in my cube. I also have the Basic > Plus program and data file. Could I get a copy of that? > I think that www.textfiles.com might have a bunch of ASCII art, if they > are still around. I have a collection rescued from a few tapes about 10-15 years ago, which I can put on my website if anyone wants them. Some of it is very small simple files, some are fairly ambitious and run to a few 100K bytes, and I have some VT100 display hacks as well, about 12MB in all. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From DFoster at aol.com Fri Apr 2 00:15:33 2004 From: DFoster at aol.com (DFoster@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: Heathkit et-1000 Message-ID: <197.278b1fc6.2d9e5f05@aol.com> Dear Kevin: I've been browsing the web for a schematic for the Heathkit ET-1000 digital trainer and I saw your posting. The unit has been fully repaired, but I'm still worried about future repairs. By any chance or design, do you have a schematic you could fax or email me? It would even be helpful (and perhaps sufficient) if you could identify the DIP chip on the Main Board (not the Power Supply board) that is labeled "2206CP 8271". Might it be a function generator chip? NTE and other sources do not list what this chip is or what it does. Anyway, if you still have data on the ET-1000 help would be very much appreciated! Thanks, Dave (DFoster@aol.com) From dvcorbin at optonline.net Fri Apr 2 04:48:34 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: Paging Gary Hildebrand... Message-ID: Gary I sent you a private e-mail yesterday. Please let me know if you did/did not recieve it. Thanks David david@dynamicconcepts.us From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Apr 2 05:50:56 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8b144e994c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > "It's basically the same process that CB radio owners had to go > > through in the 1970's, only we require a slight ammount of additional > > information.", said Lance O. Onie, director of the FCC's PC Freedom > > Initiative. > > Is he relatated to Loof Lipra? Surely you mean Loof Lirpa. > What do I do if my > machine doesn't have a CPU serial number, or if that number can be > trivially changed using tools I have available, like soldering iron, > cutters, or a prom programmer ? How about my Acorn RISC PC - remove the DS2401 Silicon Serial Number IC from the motherboard (you don't even need any pliers or cutters - it's socketed). Count how many "copy protection" schemes fall over. What was it Acorn said about not relying on the system serial number, even if the machine claims to be a RiscPC? > One of my machines has 3 software-readable serial numbers, for the CPU/IO > board, for the memory/vidro board, and for the cabinet. Which do I quote? > ObCC. What machine is that? Would that be one of the PERQ series machines? Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... 'Daddy, what does Format C: mean?' From nico at farumdata.dk Fri Apr 2 07:17:14 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers References: <8b144e994c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <001001c418b4$d1210ac0$2201a8c0@finans> > > > "It's basically the same process that CB radio owners had to go > > > through in the 1970's, only we require a slight ammount of additional > > > information.", said Lance O. Onie, director of the FCC's PC Freedom > > > Initiative. > > > > Is he relatated to Loof Lipra? > Surely you mean Loof Lirpa. N?h, I think he means his danish cousin, Rans Lirpa (= Aprilsnar) Nico --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release Date: 31-03-2004 From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Fri Apr 2 09:11:45 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: Help with a Power Supply Message-ID: <406D82B1.6B0FC364@compsys.to> I could use some help with what seems to be a BAD power supply. For the past month, I started to experience more and more frequent crashes of the system. About 2 weeks ago, I figured that it seemed to be the power supply and I started to use an external power supply for the 3 hard disk drives. That solved the problem and a few days ago, I replaced the internal power supply so that now the 3 hard drives are back on the new internal power supply with the rest of the system (and it is now very quiet again since the external power supply had a noisy fan!). Since I am not Tony Duell, I will just be tossing the old power supply. However, before that, I would like to know if there is a simple way to test the old power supply to determine if that was the actual problem? Please don't mention anything that requires me to open up the old power supply. I only have an old analog volt meter and could put a few light bulbs into a test circuit, but that is about the limit! It really is not that important, but it sure would be interesting to know if that was the specific problem. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 2 09:46:39 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: Help with a Power Supply In-Reply-To: <406D82B1.6B0FC364@compsys.to> References: <406D82B1.6B0FC364@compsys.to> Message-ID: >I could use some help with what seems to be a BAD power >supply. For the past month, I started to experience more >and more frequent crashes of the system. About 2 weeks >ago, I figured that it seemed to be the power supply and >I started to use an external power supply for the 3 hard >disk drives. That solved the problem and a few days ago, >I replaced the internal power supply so that now the 3 hard >drives are back on the new internal power supply with the >rest of the system (and it is now very quiet again since the >external power supply had a noisy fan!). Jerome, Is this on your PC or on your PDP-11? If it was on the PC, just toss the powersupply. It's not worth the effort. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From tponsford at theriver.com Fri Apr 2 09:48:14 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: Amarillo auction Message-ID: <406D8B3E.3040906@theriver.com> I only got this auction email today, and hopefulltythis will be posted to the list before Sat morn. I hate when they send me the notice the day before the auction. Anybody in the Amarillo, Tx area? Amarillo by morning? The auction list shows a vt102 and a micro-pdp among hundreds of lots of peecee stuff. The stuff goes to the dumpster if not sold. list: http://www.bentleysauction.com/misc/catalogs/ama040304.txt -- --- Please do not read this sig. If you have read this far, please unread back to the beginning. From brendle at ems.psu.edu Fri Apr 2 02:16:32 2004 From: brendle at ems.psu.edu (Jeff Brendle (laptop)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: IBM PC-RT (was: AIX) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0CFB7A1B-847E-11D8-9DC5-0050E445D91C@ems.psu.edu> Well... since I am still awake.... Other than the older MFM/RLL stuff that probably will work if you can still find the IBM drives (I guess this was inherited, as the ps/2 mod 60 based 6152s used the stock "R"s, so was that RLL?, if I remember right, 40s or 70s I think, but I never saw anything but "E"-series ESDI drives in the towers, in a few sizes, 70, something around 100, and then the big 310). I think that some really old adaptec SCSI adapter was also supported (forget the model # right now, think it was the aha-1522 but with a less common letter?) & that was back in the days of small SCSI drives (sub-1GB) ... of course, that SCSI card wasn't "easily obtainable" several years ago when I thought about trying this under AOS (someone had ported the drivers), so I don't know if anyone is out there still doing this or what might be out there still. I know that there was even a limitation on the ESDI drives that would work.... something about a short pulse that was odd (so you had to get a specific version of the Maxtor 310MB drive & other ESDIs we tried wouldn't work). Most info is in the RT FAQ [http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~shadow/ibmrt/faqs/], so don't trust my bad memory, look it up... =-) ANywho... I still have some of this gear, but are there others out there with it too? -j On Apr 2, 2004, at 12:53 AM, Doc Shipley wrote: > On 2 Apr 2004, R. D. Davis wrote: > >> Quothe Doc Shipley, from writings of Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 05:06:34PM >> -0600: >>> I have to agree, though, that I haven't found a lot of similarity >>> between >>> what's installed on the RT and what I run on my 43Ps. >> >> Speaking of the RT, did anyone ever get these to work with any sort of >> easily obtainable hard drives? Finding ESDI drives that would work >> was >> somewhat of a pain, and is why I stopped using my RT (hmmm... I wonder >> if it still works?) > > Mine's running an old ISA Dell I/O card with 2x 5.25" floppy drives > and a > Seagate 280MB IDE Medalist hanging off it. I have the bookmark for the > instructions somewhere, but it boils down to needing an IDE adapter > that's > pretty brainless, and that either has no serial ports or can be turned > off, > a Seagate Medalist <2GB, a goat, and 2 plucked chickens. > > I seriously did have to beat the drive repeatedly with the AOS > LL-format > utility to get it running. After it took a BSD filesystem, it then > happily accepted TLC from the VM tools. > > Apparently, *only* the Medalist line supports an arcane instruction > or > sense bit or something that the ESDI adapter used and the system > firmware > wants to see. And, at this point, I'm not sure that a <2GB Medalist > qualifies as "easily obtainable". ;) > > At that point I was able to power up the RT without dimming my office > lights. Three very tired E70s suck some serious amps spooling up. > > I'd dearly love to snarf a mouse and a Matrox graphics adapter for > the > thing, but it's one of my pride & joy items just as it is. > > > Doc > > Jeff Brendle (bli@psu.edu) Penn State - E & M S From esharpe at uswest.net Fri Apr 2 12:46:35 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: **************Re: Mattel intellivision References: Message-ID: <002801c418e2$d3667800$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> is there any Mattel manuals or sales lit. out there online? we need some visuals to go with the machine we are adding to the display here... thanks ed sharpe archivist for smecc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Witchy" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:23 PM Subject: Mattel intellivision > Hi folks, > > Anyone have any troubleshooting expertise on these things? Got one of my > spares out for sale and typically the bloody thing is pretty dead. I say > *pretty* dead 'cos I get the cart intro screen on power up, but with the > computer module attached I get nothing. I've left it powered up for 15 > minutes in case it's a warm up problem but that makes matters worse :) > > According to the service manual I have to replace either the RAM or CPU in > that order, but since spares for those will come from working intellivisions > I don't want to do that! Also, off the top of my head I can't think of any > other videogames that use the General Instruments GI1610 CPU, assuming it's > that that's croaked. The RAM is a GI-specific chip too. Spares, anyone? > > TIA :) > > -- > Adrian/Witchy > Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > > > From bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com Fri Apr 2 11:49:17 2004 From: bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: Amarillo auction In-Reply-To: <406D8B3E.3040906@theriver.com> References: <406D8B3E.3040906@theriver.com> Message-ID: <406DA79D.1020909@yahoo.com> Tom Ponsford wrote: > I only got this auction email today, and hopefulltythis will be posted > to the list before Sat morn. > > I hate when they send me the notice the day before the auction. > > Anybody in the Amarillo, Tx area? Amarillo by morning? > > The auction list shows a vt102 and a micro-pdp among hundreds of lots of > peecee stuff. > > The stuff goes to the dumpster if not sold. > What an interesting collection of stuff -- marble slabs, tools, medical supplies, lab instruments, coins, monitors, printers, plotters, and not a small number of old PCs in various incarnations... Hey, Jay, they show an HP 7900A disk drive and the power supply (in separate lots...) Bill McDermith From mtapley at swri.edu Fri Apr 2 12:06:05 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: Amarillo auction In-Reply-To: <406DA79D.1020909@yahoo.com> References: <406D8B3E.3040906@theriver.com> <406DA79D.1020909@yahoo.com> Message-ID: >Tom Ponsford wrote: > >>I only got this auction email today, and hopefulltythis will be >>posted to the list before Sat morn. >> >>I hate when they send me the notice the day before the auction. >> >>Anybody in the Amarillo, Tx area? Amarillo by morning? >> >>The auction list shows a vt102 and a micro-pdp among hundreds of >>lots of peecee stuff. >> >>The stuff goes to the dumpster if not sold. >> > >What an interesting collection of stuff -- marble slabs, tools, >medical supplies, lab instruments, coins, monitors, printers, >plotters, and not a small number of old PCs in various >incarnations... > >Hey, Jay, they show an HP 7900A disk drive and the power supply >(in separate lots...) > >Bill McDermith Yeah, and two Tek O-scopes and some Weller soldering stations. Sigh. I don't think I can *quite* make it there by then - San Antonio is a long way from Amarillo - but I wish I could. -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From mross666 at hotmail.com Fri Apr 2 12:22:24 2004 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: Someone is taking the piss... Message-ID: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4121020871 further comment would be prosaic. Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ Free up your inbox with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! Multiple plans available. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=hotmail/es2&ST=1/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Apr 2 12:31:25 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: Help with early Mac serial numbers References: <012e01c41857$5ddf8e90$56406b43@66067007> <005a01c4187e$82395d80$0100a8c0@acmeqax5pma6my> Message-ID: <00db01c418e0$b5d36ed0$7a406b43@66067007> Thanks for the great info and the url. :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian West" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 12:48 AM Subject: Re: Help with early Mac serial numbers > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Keys" > To: "cctalk@classiccmp" > Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 3:08 AM > Subject: Help with early Mac serial numbers > > > > I pulled one of my early 128k Mac's from storage for part of a Apple > display > > I'm doing on the 17th and was trying to find out the breakdown of the > serial > > number. The number on the unit is F40220FM0001 and I'm guessing that the > two > > F's are just there for show and that 40220 is the serial number and M0001 > is > > the model number? Is this correct? > > > > According to: > > http://macfaq.org/serial.html > > "Your Mac 128 (M0001), with serial number F40220FM0001, was the 2607th > manufactured during the 2th week of 1984 in Fremont, CA." > > There's also an explanation on that page of how the serial number is broken > down. > > From patrick at VintageComputerMarketplace.com Fri Apr 2 13:18:41 2004 From: patrick at VintageComputerMarketplace.com (Patrick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: OT: One for the Good Guys Message-ID: Headline: "JURY FINDS BUFFALO SPAMMER GUILTY OF IDENTITY THEFT AND FORGERY" >From the text: "He was also found guilty of falsifying business records of EarthLink, when he forged the headers of email sent from the EarthLink accounts." Hmmm... if this is upheld, it has the beginnings of a major blow to that "industry", perhaps. --Patrick http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2004/apr/apr1b_04.html From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 2 13:19:45 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: Someone is taking the piss... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Apr 2004, Mike Ross wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4121020871 > > further comment would be prosaic. I'm rich! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 2 14:25:07 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: Someone is taking the piss... In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Apr 02, 2004 11:19:45 AM Message-ID: <200404022025.i32KP75w004270@onyx.spiritone.com> > On Fri, 2 Apr 2004, Mike Ross wrote: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4121020871 > > > > further comment would be prosaic. > > I'm rich! > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival No doubt! Now if I can just get to my VT100's and get them up on eBay I could afford to replace a piece of DEC gear that I use that's dying. Still, I really want to put a Mini-ITX board in one and turn it into a desktop PDP-10 :^) Zane From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Apr 2 14:29:26 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: OT: One for the Good Guys Message-ID: <200404022029.MAA22399@clulw009.amd.com> Hi All I love it. There is nothing worse than getting hundreds of incorrect address notices from people you know you never sent anything to. I just wonder if they can catch them all. Many are outside of the country. Dwight >From: Patrick >Headline: "JURY FINDS BUFFALO SPAMMER GUILTY OF IDENTITY THEFT AND FORGERY" > >>From the text: "He was also found guilty of falsifying business records of >EarthLink, when he forged the headers of email sent from the EarthLink >accounts." > >Hmmm... if this is upheld, it has the beginnings of a major blow to that >"industry", perhaps. --Patrick > >http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2004/apr/apr1b_04.html > > > From spedraja at ono.com Fri Apr 2 14:34:06 2004 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: Someone is taking the piss... References: Message-ID: <001101c418f1$d90cdba0$0d02a8c0@WorkGroup> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4121020871 I can't believe it. Cheers. Sergio. From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Apr 2 14:39:59 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: Someone is taking the piss... References: <001101c418f1$d90cdba0$0d02a8c0@WorkGroup> Message-ID: <01bd01c418f2$ab0e2640$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Why do I have a sneaky suspicion that this VT100 has been recently repainted. If that's the case and the seller is who I think, I'm *severely* torqued and looking to make a road trip along with a crowbar. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "SP" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 2:34 PM Subject: Re: Someone is taking the piss... > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4121020871 > > I can't believe it. > > Cheers. > Sergio. > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Apr 2 15:52:19 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: Someone is taking the piss... In-Reply-To: <001101c418f1$d90cdba0$0d02a8c0@WorkGroup> References: <001101c418f1$d90cdba0$0d02a8c0@WorkGroup> Message-ID: <20040402215219.GW1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe SP, from writings of Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 10:34:06PM +0200: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4121020871 > > I can't believe it. Remember what P.T. Barnum said about what's born every minute. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Apr 2 16:22:15 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: Amarillo auction References: <406D8B3E.3040906@theriver.com> <406DA79D.1020909@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002801c41900$f3d95ee0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Bill wrote... > Hey, Jay, they show an HP 7900A disk drive and the power supply > (in separate lots...) I'm flush (or will be momentarily) on 7900A drives!! :> Never in a million years thought I'd say that! Seriously though, someone should make sure to snag the 7900A drive and 13215 power supply (required for the drive). These things are pretty rare and finally pretty much going out of existance. However, I must also let people who may be trying to get HP TSB running know.... I have confirmed empirically that 7906 drives do in fact work with TSB. You loose every other track on the last data surface, but it does in fact work just fine. You tell the OS and any utilities that it's a 7905. 7906's are much easier to find. I always suspected 7906's would work (all TSB docs I've ever seen specifically only mentions 7900A, 7905, and 7906A-D), but now I know for sure they work so the 7900A's aren't a given requirement. Jay West From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Fri Apr 2 18:51:27 2004 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: **************Re: Mattel intellivision Message-ID: <20040402.165127.336.16.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Try: http://www.intellivisionlives.com/bluesky/media/index.html On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:46:35 -0700 "Ed Sharpe" writes: > is there any Mattel manuals or sales lit. out there online? we need > some > visuals to go with the machine we are adding to the display > here... > > thanks ed sharpe archivist for smecc > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Witchy" > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:23 PM > Subject: Mattel intellivision > > > > Hi folks, > > > > Anyone have any troubleshooting expertise on these things? Got one > of my > > spares out for sale and typically the bloody thing is pretty dead. > I say > > *pretty* dead 'cos I get the cart intro screen on power up, but > with the > > computer module attached I get nothing. I've left it powered up > for 15 > > minutes in case it's a warm up problem but that makes matters > worse :) > > > > According to the service manual I have to replace either the RAM > or CPU in > > that order, but since spares for those will come from working > intellivisions > > I don't want to do that! Also, off the top of my head I can't > think of any > > other videogames that use the General Instruments GI1610 CPU, > assuming > it's > > that that's croaked. The RAM is a GI-specific chip too. Spares, > anyone? > > > > TIA :) > > > > -- > > Adrian/Witchy > > Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs > > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online > computer > museum > > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From marvin at rain.org Fri Apr 2 16:54:33 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: Apple Computer Collecting Message-ID: <406DEF29.F935EAAB@rain.org> What in the Apple line of computers, etc. is worth keeping, i.e. hardware, software, documentation, and books? Besides the Apple I, are there any other "holy grail" type of items? I have several Apple printers including the Imagewriter and Imagewriter II. Are these as common as dirt so I don't have to feel bad about getting rid of them, or are they worth putting up on the Vintage Computer Marketplace? I *think* the only Apple IIx I don't have is the orginal Apple II and the "Black" Apple II+, and I would still like to keep one each of the II line. The only Macs I am keeping are the original 128K Macs, and maybe one of the 512K machines. From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Fri Apr 2 16:57:55 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: Help with a Power Supply References: <406D82B1.6B0FC364@compsys.to> Message-ID: <406DEFF3.A407C969@compsys.to> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >I could use some help with what seems to be a BAD power > >supply. For the past month, I started to experience more > >and more frequent crashes of the system. About 2 weeks > >ago, I figured that it seemed to be the power supply and > >I started to use an external power supply for the 3 hard > >disk drives. That solved the problem and a few days ago, > >I replaced the internal power supply so that now the 3 hard > >drives are back on the new internal power supply with the > >rest of the system (and it is now very quiet again since the > >external power supply had a noisy fan!). > Jerome, > Is this on your PC or on your PDP-11? If it was on the PC, just toss > the powersupply. It's not worth the effort. Jerome Fine replies: On the PDP-11 (well actually on the PC since I run RT-11 under E11 so I can say to myself that it is not really Windows). I agree that it is not worth the effort, but I was just hoping that it might be possible to confirm that when the load is increased, the voltage levels are not sufficient. And when I do toss the power supply, I usually cut off the cables for the hard drives since they can then be easily converted to "Y" connectors by adding a female connector to the cut portion. Seriously, is there an easy way to test a PC power supply without opening the case? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 2 16:59:49 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers In-Reply-To: <8b144e994c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> from "Philip Pemberton" at Apr 2, 4 12:50:56 pm Message-ID: > > > > Is he relatated to Loof Lipra? > Surely you mean Loof Lirpa. Of course I do... > > One of my machines has 3 software-readable serial numbers, for the CPU/IO > > board, for the memory/vidro board, and for the cabinet. Which do I quote? > > ObCC. What machine is that? > Would that be one of the PERQ series machines? Yes. The PERQ AGW330, aka PERQ 3a. There are 2 main PCBs in the box. One contains the 68020 processor, 68881 FPU, DMA chip, MMU hardware (a lot of fast-ish RAM and glue logic), ethernet, serial ports, SCSI, etc. The other contains the RAM, video RAM, and video circuitry. Each has a serial number PROM on it. There's a third one on the DDS (diagnostic display) PCB at the front of the cabinet, which is used for the cabinet serial number. The PSU, OMTI bridge board and drives don't have machine readable serial numbers AFAIK. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 2 17:04:00 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: Help with a Power Supply In-Reply-To: <406D82B1.6B0FC364@compsys.to> from "Jerome H. Fine" at Apr 2, 4 10:11:45 am Message-ID: > Since I am not Tony Duell, I will just be tossing the old Since when do I have a monopoly on test equipment ;-) > power supply. However, before that, I would like to > know if there is a simple way to test the old power > supply to determine if that was the actual problem? > > Please don't mention anything that requires me to open > up the old power supply. I only have an old analog > volt meter and could put a few light bulbs into a test > circuit, but that is about the limit! It really is not that Well, that's what you need for the first test. Put bulbs as a load on at least the main outputs of the PSU (that's the +5V, and maybe the +12V lines at least). Try to take at least half the rated current from each rail (so if you have a 5V 10A supply, you want, say, a 6V 30W bulb, or enough smaller bulbs in parallel to make up the current). Then measure the output voltages with your meter. If it passes that test, then you really need to look at the outputs with a 'scope to look for excessive ripple. > important, but it sure would be interesting to know if > that was the specific problem. It's _always_ worth making sure you've fixed the real problem. Randomly replacing parts with no proof they had anything to do with the problem is no way to fix anything. Alas making measurements before changing things has gone out of fashion ;-( -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 2 17:05:51 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:38 2005 Subject: Help with a Power Supply In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Apr 2, 4 07:46:39 am Message-ID: > Jerome, > Is this on your PC or on your PDP-11? If it was on the PC, just toss > the powersupply. It's not worth the effort. I disagree for at least 2 reasons. Firstly, whatever machine it's from, you want to be sure that the old PSU was faulty so that you know you've fixed the problem by replacing it. THis is particularly important for intermittant faults! Secondly, the old AT-style PC PSUs seem to be very hard to find over here now. They are certainly worth fixing, since most of the time all they need is new capacitors... -tony From ghldbrd at ccp.com Fri Apr 2 17:02:18 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Apple Computer Collecting In-Reply-To: <406DEF29.F935EAAB@rain.org> References: <406DEF29.F935EAAB@rain.org> Message-ID: <2352.65.123.179.125.1080946938.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> There were so many Apple II's made I don't think they'd be considered classic, but more of a special interest, kinda like Commie 64's. I know the Bell & Howell black Apple IIs get a premiuim price, for nothing else than the color. I picked up a IIc+ not knowing it was the fastest Apple II built, and that to me makes it sorta collectable. Now if I could find the LCD display for it, I'd really have something. Don't know much about the early Mac's but I do see lots of them for very low prices on the used market, such as Goodwill, etc. Here again I'd say it would be a special interest item more than anything rare. Almost forgot, the early Lisas are commanding pretty good prices on e-pay, but that is an exception. The later Lisas were upgraded to Mac O/S, and they aren't as valuable. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO > > What in the Apple line of computers, etc. is worth keeping, i.e. > hardware, software, documentation, and books? Besides the Apple I, are > there any other "holy grail" type of items? > > I have several Apple printers including the Imagewriter and Imagewriter > II. Are these as common as dirt so I don't have to feel bad about > getting rid of them, or are they worth putting up on the Vintage > Computer Marketplace? I *think* the only Apple IIx I don't have is the > orginal Apple II and the "Black" Apple II+, and I would still like to > keep one each of the II line. The only Macs I am keeping are the > original 128K Macs, and maybe one of the 512K machines. > From acme at gbronline.com Fri Apr 2 17:19:34 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Diskette drives available Message-ID: <00a801c41908$f6b66d80$4d4f0945@thegoodw> A friend has some diskette drives available. Please contact Jack Boatwright directly jboatno4@outlawnet.com if you're interested. He probably doesn't want much for them. 13 - 3.5" floppies (all 720K) 04 - 5.25" half-height floppies (size unknown, 360K?) 02 - 5.25" full-height floppies (size unknown, 360K?) 01 - 5.25 full-height floppy (DSQD) Additionally, he is selling off some very unusual Timex Sinclair clones on eBay (Jack most likely has the largest collection of Timex Sinclair related items on Earth). Search for seller jboatno4. Later -- Glen 0/0 From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Apr 2 17:45:11 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Apple Computer Collecting References: <406DEF29.F935EAAB@rain.org> Message-ID: <015d01c4190c$8fd63a60$7a406b43@66067007> Keep good copies of ProDos for your II series machines plus look for maybe the Apple III, and Apple IIgs Woz.. And for the 128's find MacWrite and MacPaint that came with it. Some other Mac's that I like are the Color Classic & Color Classic II, TAM-20th Anniversary Mac, and the Cube. I have found over 105 different Mac's and most are the same except for small improvement in speed. There are other Apple products like the eMate, Newton, Apple CD, Apple TV boxtop, and others. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Johnston" To: "ClassicCmp" Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 4:54 PM Subject: Apple Computer Collecting > > What in the Apple line of computers, etc. is worth keeping, i.e. > hardware, software, documentation, and books? Besides the Apple I, are > there any other "holy grail" type of items? > > I have several Apple printers including the Imagewriter and Imagewriter > II. Are these as common as dirt so I don't have to feel bad about > getting rid of them, or are they worth putting up on the Vintage > Computer Marketplace? I *think* the only Apple IIx I don't have is the > orginal Apple II and the "Black" Apple II+, and I would still like to > keep one each of the II line. The only Macs I am keeping are the > original 128K Macs, and maybe one of the 512K machines. > From aek at spies.com Fri Apr 2 17:56:54 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: LPS11 schematics Message-ID: <200404022356.i32NusFd017411@spies.com> www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/LPS11_schem_Nov72.pdf From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 2 19:17:22 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Wire wrap tools on eBay Message-ID: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3807467404&category=36329 -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dvcorbin at optonline.net Fri Apr 2 19:26:07 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Wire wrap tools on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: NOT a complete tool. Just a BIT for someone who as a tool... Now if someone has an SCD authomated station [which was controlled by a PDP-8/E BTW] THAT would be REAL cool! >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage >>> Computer Festival >>> Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 8:17 PM >>> To: Classic Computers Mailing List >>> Subject: Wire wrap tools on eBay >>> >>> >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380746740 >>> 4&category=36329 >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Sellam Ismail >>> Vintage Computer Festival >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> International Man of Intrigue and Danger >>> http://www.vintage.org >>> >>> [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade >>> Vintage Computers ] >>> [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at >>> http://marketplace.vintage.org ] >>> From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Apr 2 19:23:14 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Someone is taking the piss... References: <200404030059.i330xed32597@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <000b01c4191a$3cc1bb70$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I had written.... > >Why do I have a sneaky suspicion that this VT100 has been recently > >repainted. I was incorrect, the seller mentioned in the previous post is not in fact who I was concerned it may be. My apologies for the aspersion! Jay From vax3900 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 2 19:42:40 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Someone is taking the piss... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040403014240.98040.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com> I once came up with two VT100's. They were sold for $10 (for both) on two desks with rollers, and a PDP11/?? computer (forgot the number). I didn't bid because my car could't load them. --- Mike Ross wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4121020871 > > further comment would be prosaic. > > Mike > http://www.corestore.org > > _________________________________________________________________ > Free up your inbox with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! > Multiple plans available. > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=hotmail/es2&ST=1/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Apr 2 20:58:51 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Apple Computer Collecting Message-ID: <104.42f9fc66.2d9f826b@aol.com> I'd say any of the technical books from Addison-Wesley are worth keeping. Ive got the BASIC programming with ProDOS and it's pretty detailed. There were so many neat options back in the day. For example, I've got a ][+ with a special 80column card designed for it that could run a patched version of Appleworks. It also had a replacement encoder board to do lowercase and had macro capability. Of course, the apple SCSI card is worth looking for. I've got one and tried to connect a drive and no luck. Will have to try again. The //c+ is pretty neat. I eventually got one, but they are not easy to find. If you can find a working Apple /// or ///+ get it. I lucked out and got a complete functional one with hard drive and original disks. And of course, the LCD display for the //c. >>What in the Apple line of computers, etc. is worth keeping, i.e. >>hardware, software, documentation, and books? Besides the Apple I, are >>there any other "holy grail" type of items? From brianmahoney at look.ca Fri Apr 2 21:26:54 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Apple Computer Collecting References: <406DEF29.F935EAAB@rain.org> Message-ID: <001901c4192b$950f1be0$6402a8c0@ralph> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Johnston" To: "ClassicCmp" Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 5:54 PM Subject: Apple Computer Collecting > I have several Apple printers including the Imagewriter and Imagewriter > II. Are these as common as dirt so I don't have to feel bad about > getting rid of them, or are they worth putting up on the Vintage > Computer Marketplace? I *think* the only Apple IIx I Strangely enough, I have a client now who wants me to take some of his old writings which are on a IIc disk and print them out. There may be lots of old printers but I can't seem to find any that still work. Plus, I'm having a heck of a time finding a simple cable to connect any Apple to a printer. (Mac mice are in scarce supply too.) I'll probably try something with an emulator and save the stuff on the disk in text, if I can get something to read it but the point is that peripherals are in short supply. A dozen mice and some cords don't take up a lot of room and they WILL be worth something someday. Second strange thing, the only computers of interest that I can find these days are Macs. Picked up a Centris 650 700mb/32meg ram for 6 bucks the other day plus a beautiful 17 inch multiscan monitor for 10. Others are of lessor importance but I finally got a b/w Classic! These are the only things I'm seeing around Toronto these days. I would say peripherals, original software and manuals, memory chips, boards would be good to collect. You will always be able to match these items up with main units later on. bm. _________________ Is your name on this list? It should be. http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm From zmerch at 30below.com Fri Apr 2 21:30:01 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Help with a Power Supply In-Reply-To: <406DEFF3.A407C969@compsys.to> References: <406D82B1.6B0FC364@compsys.to> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040402222217.04c9db90@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Jerome H. Fine may have mentioned these words: >Seriously, is there an easy way to test a PC power supply >without opening the case? Sure there is - go into the BIOS of the PC (there's usually a prompt during POST - it's usually the DEL key, but F1 and/or F2 are becoming more common) and there's normally a menu entry called "Hardware Monitor" or somesuch. Go there, and you can see all the voltage levels that the PSU is putting out. [1] Oh, Waitaminit... You wanted a *usable* PSU test?!?!? Nope; gotta crack the case. You could possibly test for ripple on the +5v line coming out of the PS/2 keyboard or mouse ports, but to test 12V & 3.3V you'd have to crack the case anyway. BTW, some earlier AT & ATX power supplies were only switching on the 5v & 12v lines, so you didn't have to worry about minimum load on the 3.3v lines - but all that I've seen over the last 3 years or so are switching there, also; so when you're testing, don't forget to load 3.3v too. Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger [1] Should I put an "April Fools" there, even tho I'm a day late? (Not that that's suprising, tho...) -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com Hi! I am a .signature virus. Copy me into your .signature to join in! From cbajpai at comcast.net Fri Apr 2 21:45:56 2004 From: cbajpai at comcast.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Apple Computer Collecting In-Reply-To: <406DEF29.F935EAAB@rain.org> Message-ID: <000001c4192e$2c13c660$707ba8c0@xpdesk> My vote goes for anything in the Apple Lisa line...especially if it's running LisaOS 7/7. For it's day it was ahead of it's time and it can trace it's lineage directly to the Xerox Alto. Trip Hawkins (Lisa Product Manager at the time) said the Mac is a cost reduced version of Lisa with some of the really advanced stuff cut out (e.g. real multitasking, VM etc.). Don't forget the Lisa team vs. Mac/Jobs team development wars...some of these items are archived at folklore.org. But I'm kind of biased...I'm a huge Lisa fan. -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Marvin Johnston Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 5:55 PM To: ClassicCmp Subject: Apple Computer Collecting What in the Apple line of computers, etc. is worth keeping, i.e. hardware, software, documentation, and books? Besides the Apple I, are there any other "holy grail" type of items? I have several Apple printers including the Imagewriter and Imagewriter II. Are these as common as dirt so I don't have to feel bad about getting rid of them, or are they worth putting up on the Vintage Computer Marketplace? I *think* the only Apple IIx I don't have is the orginal Apple II and the "Black" Apple II+, and I would still like to keep one each of the II line. The only Macs I am keeping are the original 128K Macs, and maybe one of the 512K machines. From rcini at optonline.net Fri Apr 2 21:56:10 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Apple Computer Collecting In-Reply-To: <000001c4192e$2c13c660$707ba8c0@xpdesk> Message-ID: <001801c4192f$9a09fe40$6501a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Marvin: I have an Apple ][+, a //c, a //gs, a "Fat Mac", an SE/30, a IIci and a PowerMac (from my mother). I feel that this combination gives me the broadest cross-platform bridging so I can transfer software back and forth "across eras" if I need to. The IIci is also connected to my home network...I have "Services for Macintosh" running on my NT Server so I have the benefit to large archival space (and of course Internet connectivity on the IIci). I have Internet Explorer 2.8 running on the ci. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chandra Bajpai Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 10:46 PM To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: RE: Apple Computer Collecting My vote goes for anything in the Apple Lisa line...especially if it's running LisaOS 7/7. For it's day it was ahead of it's time and it can trace it's lineage directly to the Xerox Alto. Trip Hawkins (Lisa Product Manager at the time) said the Mac is a cost reduced version of Lisa with some of the really advanced stuff cut out (e.g. real multitasking, VM etc.). Don't forget the Lisa team vs. Mac/Jobs team development wars...some of these items are archived at folklore.org. But I'm kind of biased...I'm a huge Lisa fan. -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Marvin Johnston Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 5:55 PM To: ClassicCmp Subject: Apple Computer Collecting What in the Apple line of computers, etc. is worth keeping, i.e. hardware, software, documentation, and books? Besides the Apple I, are there any other "holy grail" type of items? I have several Apple printers including the Imagewriter and Imagewriter II. Are these as common as dirt so I don't have to feel bad about getting rid of them, or are they worth putting up on the Vintage Computer Marketplace? I *think* the only Apple IIx I don't have is the orginal Apple II and the "Black" Apple II+, and I would still like to keep one each of the II line. The only Macs I am keeping are the original 128K Macs, and maybe one of the 512K machines. From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri Apr 2 22:40:19 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Apple Computer Collecting References: <001801c4192f$9a09fe40$6501a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Message-ID: <003d01c41935$c4c76720$552a1941@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard A. Cini" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 10:56 PM Subject: RE: Apple Computer Collecting > Marvin: > > I have an Apple ][+, a //c, a //gs, a "Fat Mac", an SE/30, a IIci and a > PowerMac (from my mother). I feel that this combination gives me the > broadest cross-platform bridging so I can transfer software back and forth > "across eras" if I need to. The IIci is also connected to my home > network...I have "Services for Macintosh" running on my NT Server so I have > the benefit to large archival space (and of course Internet connectivity on > the IIci). I have Internet Explorer 2.8 running on the ci. > > Rich > > Rich Cini > Collector of classic computers > Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project > Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > /************************************************************/ > My apple collection consists on a IIgs ROM 1 with Apple scsi card, IIfx, 840AV, Quadra 950 with AWS card, and a couple powermacs (7500,8500) with all kinds of add-ons and upgrades. The only other high value Apple product other then the Apple I would probably be the original Lisa with twiggy drive. The original Ultima and the first non ultima title (Alkebath or something like that) command a few hundred dollars a pop in good condition for the Apple II. High speed SCSI cards for the apple II series generally go for $75 or more on ebay all the time, with processor accelerators going for much more. Basically most of the stuff for the Apple II that wasn't in a stock configuration is worth keeping, but wont be worth a mint either. From geneb at deltasoft.com Sat Apr 3 00:35:01 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: PC-BLUE disks... Message-ID: I recall seeing someone looking for the PC-BLUE disks recently. Here you go: http://cd.textfiles.com/pcblue/ There are over 200 disks in the archive. g. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri Apr 2 22:45:05 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Apple Computer Collecting In-Reply-To: <104.42f9fc66.2d9f826b@aol.com> References: <104.42f9fc66.2d9f826b@aol.com> Message-ID: <20040403044505.GA28923@bos7.spole.gov> On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 09:58:51PM -0500, SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > The //c+ is pretty neat. I eventually got one, but they are not easy to find. I bought one by accident once. Seriously... I thought I was buying a //c and got home and discovered that was different (4MHz vs 1MHz, Mac DIN-8 serial plugs not DIN-5, etc.) I used to write Apple ][ software and didn't even know there _was_ a //c+ Total haul: //c+, small Apple mono CRT + stand, 1 cu ft of documentation, external 3.5" drive, external 5.25" drive, printer cables, 2 x Imagewriter... $15 at a nearby hamfest. Nice little machine. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 03-Apr-2004 04:31 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -37 F (-38.4 C) Windchill -95.8 F (-71 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 19.3 kts Grid 352 Barometer 688.4 mb (10309. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From chris at udderdestruction.net Fri Apr 2 16:24:27 2004 From: chris at udderdestruction.net (Chris Saunders) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Looking for mac Plus info Message-ID: <20040402222429.RYWG15811.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@TOSSAT> With the talk in the past about the serial numbers for older Macs. I have a couple questions, that perhaps could be answered here, or point me in the right direction. A few years ago I picked up a old Plus to convert into an aquarium (I know, I know; but it was a fun idea). I had never quite seem a Plus like this before. It had a Sticker to denote it was a plus. It did not have printing or a platic label. It was simply a sticker. Now, Plus was stolen (why people stole it was beyond me), but I am still curious of the history that Mac may have had. I'd love to hear of any thoughts or such. I still have the keyboard and mouse from it, but I trashed the dot-matrix years ago. It was also an apple printer, but I was never able to id it. Wasn't and LQ or a first gen imagewriter. Very wide but not descript. Thoughts on that? Thanks for all. Chris From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Apr 3 01:35:34 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: IBM PC-RT (was: AIX) In-Reply-To: <0CFB7A1B-847E-11D8-9DC5-0050E445D91C@ems.psu.edu> References: <0CFB7A1B-847E-11D8-9DC5-0050E445D91C@ems.psu.edu> Message-ID: <20040403073534.GX1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Jeff Brendle, from writings of Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 03:16:32AM -0500: > Other than the older MFM/RLL stuff that probably will work if you can > still find the IBM drives (I guess this was inherited, as the ps/2 mod There's one full-height one around here somewhere, IIRC... not very much capacity, however; didn't come with this system. > 60 based 6152s used the stock "R"s, so was that RLL?, if I remember > right, 40s or 70s I think, but I never saw anything but "E"-series ESDI > drives in the towers, in a few sizes, 70, something around 100, and > then the big 310). I think that some really old adaptec SCSI adapter It's been so long since I've tried to use this machine, that I forget exactly what's in it. Originally, it had three ESDI hard drives in it, two 70 and one 40, or vice versa, IIRC. I swapped one of the drives with a 330MB Micropolis, and that worked, but one of the drives soon bit the dust, or there was some sort of weird error message; trying to remember. Going to have to power it up and see what happens... To confuse me all the more, watch it decide not to show me the error message and boot instead. :-) > was also supported (forget the model # right now, think it was the > aha-1522 but with a less common letter?) & that was back in the days of > small SCSI drives (sub-1GB) ... of course, that SCSI card wasn't > "easily obtainable" several years ago when I thought about trying this > under AOS (someone had ported the drivers), so I don't know if anyone > is out there still doing this or what might be out there still. I know > that there was even a limitation on the ESDI drives that would work.... > something about a short pulse that was odd (so you had to get a > specific version of the Maxtor 310MB drive & other ESDIs we tried Will have to try to get to that drive and see what the model number is; should have at least one spare similar drive for emergencies if it's still useable. > wouldn't work). Most info is in the RT FAQ > [http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~shadow/ibmrt/faqs/], so don't trust > my bad memory, look it up... =-) ANywho... I still have some of this Thanks. Time to take another look... it hadn't changed the last time I looked at it though; I was just wondering if anything had changed since the FAQ was last updated. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Apr 3 01:30:02 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: PC-BLUE disks... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I recall seeing someone looking for the PC-BLUE disks recently. > >Here you go: http://cd.textfiles.com/pcblue/ > >There are over 200 disks in the archive. > >g. WOW!!!! That is so totally AWESOME!!!! I've been threatening to setup an MS-DOS based laptop for a couple things, and that site looks to have copies of everything I'd want (namely Telix and Quick Filer). Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rcini at optonline.net Sat Apr 3 08:36:20 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Search engines for networks? Message-ID: <001101c41989$0a1e5330$6401a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Hello, all: I'm looking for a search engine I can use on my network in the house. I remember a long time ago (1998 or so), before the "browser wars" AltaVista distributed a "personal AltaVista" that you could use on a personal computer to allow for indexing/searching a local machine/network. This was at the time that AltaVista was owned by Digital. I found a lot of announcements of the product but no actual download points. Does anyone have this or something else I can use internally? The server runs Windows NT Server and I can install IIS. Thanks. Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Apr 3 09:15:56 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Search engines for networks? In-Reply-To: <001101c41989$0a1e5330$6401a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040403100515.04ced218@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Richard A. Cini may have mentioned these words: >[snip] > Does anyone have this or something else I can use internally? The > server >runs Windows NT Server and I can install IIS. If nothing else, if you have access to a linux box, you could install Namazu and samba-mount the NT drives in a subpath of your webserver (usually Apache) - that should index all of the files necessary over the network... I do not know if Namazu is available for win32 directly - Google should help with that... ;-) HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | A new truth in advertising slogan sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | for MicroSoft: "We're not the oxy... zmerch@30below.com | ...in oxymoron!" From rcini at optonline.net Sat Apr 3 09:26:05 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Search engines for networks? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040403100515.04ced218@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <001201c4198f$fbde3cc0$6401a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Roger: Namazu is indeed available for Windows. Thanks for the name. Here's the link for those interested... http://www.namazu.org/windows/ Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Roger Merchberger Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 10:16 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Search engines for networks? Rumor has it that Richard A. Cini may have mentioned these words: >[snip] > Does anyone have this or something else I can use internally? The > server >runs Windows NT Server and I can install IIS. If nothing else, if you have access to a linux box, you could install Namazu and samba-mount the NT drives in a subpath of your webserver (usually Apache) - that should index all of the files necessary over the network... I do not know if Namazu is available for win32 directly - Google should help with that... ;-) HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | A new truth in advertising slogan sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | for MicroSoft: "We're not the oxy... zmerch@30below.com | ...in oxymoron!" From anheier at owt.com Sat Apr 3 09:08:22 2004 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm and Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Looking for cable TV card for Mac In-Reply-To: <200404021800.i32I05JB023061@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200404021800.i32I05JB023061@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: I am trying to help a friend locate a cable tuner board with cable TV type connector that came with some of the school 5400/200's. If anyone has a spare, please send up a flare. Thanks Norm From brianmahoney at look.ca Sat Apr 3 10:00:00 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Apple Computer Collecting References: <001801c4192f$9a09fe40$6501a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Message-ID: <002301c41994$ca35e380$6402a8c0@ralph> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard A. Cini" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 10:56 PM Subject: RE: Apple Computer Collecting > "across eras" if I need to. The IIci is also connected to my home > network... How did you get the Mac on the network? Is it through your server somehow, as in 'services for macintosh'? Several of mine have some sort of connectivity, ie they have netscape or some browser, and I have two NICs. I'd love to get at least one on the internet through my lan. The last one I got has os8 so I figure it is probably the most suitable. Any tips or can you point to a site that will explain it in the layman's terms I need. Thanks! bm __________________ Is your name on this list? It should be. http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm From sastevens at earthlink.net Sat Apr 3 10:40:49 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Apple Computer Collecting In-Reply-To: <002301c41994$ca35e380$6402a8c0@ralph> References: <001801c4192f$9a09fe40$6501a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> <002301c41994$ca35e380$6402a8c0@ralph> Message-ID: <20040403114049.1a691295.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 11:00:00 -0500 "Brian Mahoney" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard A. Cini" > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > > Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 10:56 PM > Subject: RE: Apple Computer Collecting > > > > "across eras" if I need to. The IIci is also connected to my home > > network... > How did you get the Mac on the network? Is it through your server somehow, > as in 'services for macintosh'? Several of mine have some sort of > connectivity, ie they have netscape or some browser, and I have two NICs. > I'd love to get at least one on the internet through my lan. The last one I > got has os8 so I figure it is probably the most suitable. Any tips or can > you point to a site that will explain it in the layman's terms I need. > Thanks! > bm > I have had my Macintosh on the network using basic TCP/IP services and functions like FTP. In any post 7.0 MacOS it's trivial to get on a home network with TCP/IP. I also have a whole box of SCSI to Ethernet adapters that makes it easy to network Macs that don't have built-in ethernet, i.e. to network my Powerbook 165c. My SE/30 has a built in ethernet card in it's 'slot' (why people plug a video card in there is unclear to me, when there are tons of other Macs available these days with much better video for nearly free) I've never bothered to make any other element of the network talk in a native Apple protocol (i.e. Appletalk) but if you can get a Mac to 'browse the web' you can get it to talk to your home Unix/Linux/BSD boxes. For archiving, I bought a SCSI CD Writer and hook that up to Macs. I keep it in an external case so it can plug into about any Mac. When I pick up a new (used) Mac one of the first things I do is image it's hard drive to a CDR. There are very good tools in the Mac sphere to image floppy diskettes and those image files get burned on CD, too. Scott > __________________ > Is your name on this list? It should be. > http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm > From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Apr 3 11:16:34 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Search engines for networks? In-Reply-To: <001101c41989$0a1e5330$6401a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> References: <001101c41989$0a1e5330$6401a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Message-ID: >Hello, all: > > I'm looking for a search engine I can use on my network in the house. I >remember a long time ago (1998 or so), before the "browser wars" AltaVista >distributed a "personal AltaVista" that you could use on a personal computer >to allow for indexing/searching a local machine/network. This was at the >time that AltaVista was owned by Digital. I found a lot of announcements of >the product but no actual download points. > > Does anyone have this or something else I can use internally? >The server >runs Windows NT Server and I can install IIS. Are you looking to run it on just one server, or against all the systems on your home network? I run SWISHesi on my OpenVMS server. I'm not sure what all SWISH-E runs on, but it looks like it supports WinNT among others. http://swish-e.org/ I honestly have no idea what it would take to get it to run against multiple systems as, all I care about is running it against one drive. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rcini at optonline.net Sat Apr 3 11:33:28 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Search engines for networks? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c419a1$c7442ee0$6401a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Zane: I have similar desires. I have one server that basically collects all of my stuff and I want to index that so I can do a search on it from elsewhere in the house. I'll check out the link. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 12:17 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Search engines for networks? >Hello, all: > > I'm looking for a search engine I can use on my network in the house. I >remember a long time ago (1998 or so), before the "browser wars" AltaVista >distributed a "personal AltaVista" that you could use on a personal computer >to allow for indexing/searching a local machine/network. This was at the >time that AltaVista was owned by Digital. I found a lot of announcements of >the product but no actual download points. > > Does anyone have this or something else I can use internally? >The server >runs Windows NT Server and I can install IIS. Are you looking to run it on just one server, or against all the systems on your home network? I run SWISHesi on my OpenVMS server. I'm not sure what all SWISH-E runs on, but it looks like it supports WinNT among others. http://swish-e.org/ I honestly have no idea what it would take to get it to run against multiple systems as, all I care about is running it against one drive. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From vcf at siconic.com Sat Apr 3 11:39:52 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Apple Computer Collecting In-Reply-To: <001801c4192f$9a09fe40$6501a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Apr 2004, Richard A. Cini wrote: > Marvin: > > I have an Apple ][+, a //c, a //gs, a "Fat Mac", an SE/30, a IIci and a > PowerMac (from my mother). I feel that this combination gives me the > broadest cross-platform bridging so I can transfer software back and forth You really only need an Apple //gs then. The ][+ and //c don't add much to the mix as far as data transfer is concerned. But of course, having the //c and ][+ around is nice :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sat Apr 3 11:42:12 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Looking for mac Plus info In-Reply-To: <20040402222429.RYWG15811.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@TOSSAT> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Apr 2004, Chris Saunders wrote: > A few years ago I picked up a old Plus to convert into an aquarium (I know, > I know; but it was a fun idea). I had never quite seem a Plus like this > before. It had a Sticker to denote it was a plus. It did not have printing > or a platic label. It was simply a sticker. Hmm, *maybe* a prototype? Which may have been the reason it was stolen (if the dirty thieves perhaps knew what it was). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pcw at mesanet.com Sat Apr 3 12:08:11 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Free Old ELECTRONICs magazines In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ~60# of 1966..1968 "ELECTRONICS" magazines Also National Semi 1974 MOS data book a few 1950s vintage "Radio and Televison" magazines I got them at the flea market, had my fun reading through them and offer them to some one willing to take them away. Nice adds for PDP8s, core memory etc etc. Too heavy to ship located in SFBA Peter Wallace From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Apr 3 12:03:02 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Apple Computer Collecting Message-ID: <1ca.1d986a8f.2da05656@aol.com> >How did you get the Mac on the network? Is it through your server somehow, >as in 'services for macintosh'? Several of mine have some sort of >connectivity, ie they have netscape or some browser, and I have two NICs. >I'd love to get at least one on the internet through my lan. The last one I >got has os8 so I figure it is probably the most suitable. Any tips or can >you point to a site that will explain it in the layman's terms I need. >Thanks! >bm I got my quadra800 with PPC card up on running on my lan and it gets net access just fine. I did not use open transport and had to configure macTCP to work with an Asante NIC rather than the onboard one since I didnt have the special cable for it. With the Asante NIC, I have to run that to a 10megabit hub then chain that into the 10/100 switch. Otherwise, it would never establish a connection. -- I am not willing to give up my liberties for the appearance of 'security' From pat at computer-refuge.org Sat Apr 3 12:11:20 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Looking for mac Plus info In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200404031311.20308.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Saturday 03 April 2004 12:42, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Fri, 2 Apr 2004, Chris Saunders wrote: > > A few years ago I picked up a old Plus to convert into an aquarium > > (I know, I know; but it was a fun idea). I had never quite seem a > > Plus like this before. It had a Sticker to denote it was a plus. It > > did not have printing or a platic label. It was simply a sticker. > > Hmm, *maybe* a prototype? Which may have been the reason it was > stolen (if the dirty thieves perhaps knew what it was). Hmm, you seem to know a little too much about this, so I say Sellam MUST have been the one to steal it!! Dirty thief! ;) Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From brianmahoney at look.ca Sat Apr 3 12:48:20 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Looking for mac Plus info References: <20040402222429.RYWG15811.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@TOSSAT> Message-ID: <004701c419ac$4def1540$6402a8c0@ralph> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Saunders" To: Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 5:24 PM Subject: Looking for mac Plus info > With the talk in the past about the serial numbers for older Macs. I have a > couple questions, that perhaps could be answered here, or point me in the > right direction. > > > > A few years ago I picked up a old Plus to convert into an aquarium (I know, > I know; but it was a fun idea). I had never quite seem a Plus like this > before. It had a Sticker to denote it was a plus. It did not have printing > or a platic label. It was simply a sticker. (following is from : http://www.mail-archive.com/compact.macs@mail.maclaunch.com/msg11292.html "If it's a Mac Plus motherboard, there will be an external SCSI connector on the back. My compact Mac is an original that was upgraded (Apple offered an upgrade kit that included a new motherboard and a new back to accommodate the added connectors, but it also had a sticker that said "Macintosh Plus" on it)." end __________________ Is your name on this list? It should be. http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm From sml49 at comcast.net Sat Apr 3 08:04:21 2004 From: sml49 at comcast.net (Seth Lewin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Looking for mac Plus info In-Reply-To: <200404030747.i337lGJ9027885@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: > A few years ago I picked up a old Plus to convert into an aquarium (I know, > I know; but it was a fun idea). I had never quite seem a Plus like this > before. It had a Sticker to denote it was a plus. It did not have printing > or a platic label. It was simply a sticker. > > Now, Plus was stolen (why people stole it was beyond me), but I am still > curious of the history that Mac may have had. > > I'd love to hear of any thoughts or such. I still have the keyboard and > mouse from it, but I trashed the dot-matrix years ago. It was also an apple > printer, but I was never able to id it. Wasn't and LQ or a first gen > imagewriter. Very wide but not descript. Thoughts on that? It might have been an upgraded 512K Mac; I believe there was a Plus upgrade for those. The printer might have been a Wide Carriage Imagewriter. There's a story that goes with that item: "... As Cary and I walked past Steve's office, we heard him yelling at the printer guys, reminding them that every Wide Carriage ImageWriter built with the hard-to-get microcontroller would likely cost the company a Mac sale. "If you build even one of those Wide ImageWriters?", and then he told them about a certain part of their anatomy that would be "cut off" if that happened. The printer guys looked like they would rather be anywhere else than right where they were. Before too much longer, Apple did ship the Wide Carriage ImageWriter, the microcontroller shortage cleared up, and I always felt privileged to have experienced so much about the Mac division on my first day....." The whole story is at http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=First_Day_in_t he_Mac_Group.txt&sortOrder=Sort+by+Date Seth Lewin From vcf at siconic.com Sat Apr 3 14:28:53 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: IBM VGA Displays? Message-ID: Is anyone interested in IBM Type 8512 (14") or 8514 (17") VGA displays (circa late 1980s, PS/2)? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sat Apr 3 14:34:32 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Looking for mac Plus info In-Reply-To: <200404031311.20308.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Apr 2004, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Saturday 03 April 2004 12:42, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Fri, 2 Apr 2004, Chris Saunders wrote: > > > A few years ago I picked up a old Plus to convert into an aquarium > > > (I know, I know; but it was a fun idea). I had never quite seem a > > > Plus like this before. It had a Sticker to denote it was a plus. It > > > did not have printing or a platic label. It was simply a sticker. > > > > Hmm, *maybe* a prototype? Which may have been the reason it was > > stolen (if the dirty thieves perhaps knew what it was). > > Hmm, you seem to know a little too much about this, so I say Sellam MUST > have been the one to steal it!! I would've gotten away with it if it wasn't for those darned kids! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Apr 3 14:57:39 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Search engines for networks? In-Reply-To: <001101c41989$0a1e5330$6401a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> References: <001101c41989$0a1e5330$6401a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Message-ID: <20040403125626.H5811@newshell.lmi.net> On Sat, 3 Apr 2004, Richard A. Cini wrote: > Hello, all: > I'm looking for a search engine I can use on my network in the house. I > remember a long time ago (1998 or so), before the "browser wars" AltaVista > distributed a "personal AltaVista" that you could use on a personal computer > to allow for indexing/searching a local machine/network. This was at the > time that AltaVista was owned by Digital. I found a lot of announcements of > the product but no actual download points. They used to give away CD-ROMs of it at Comdex. Unfortunately, the probability of my finding one of them is almost 0 -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Apr 3 15:00:14 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Looking for mac Plus info In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040403125903.G5811@newshell.lmi.net> > On Fri, 2 Apr 2004, Chris Saunders wrote: > > A few years ago I picked up a old Plus to convert into an aquarium (I know, > > I know; but it was a fun idea). I had never quite seem a Plus like this > > before. It had a Sticker to denote it was a plus. It did not have printing > > or a platic label. It was simply a sticker. On Sat, 3 Apr 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Hmm, *maybe* a prototype? Which may have been the reason it was stolen > (if the dirty thieves perhaps knew what it was). Or a conversion? If Apple upgraded the machine, how did they label the upgraded one? If third parties swapped parts and upgraded, how would they label? From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sat Apr 3 15:26:44 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: IBM VGA Displays? Message-ID: <0404032126.AA03962@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Is anyone interested in IBM Type 8512 (14") or 8514 (17") VGA displays > (circa late 1980s, PS/2)? Does 8512 work? If it does, I'm interested. I have an 8512 that appears toast. I also have a working 8503, but it's monochrome. I'm also still looking for an original IBM VGA card for ISA, which they call (rather confusingly) IBM PS/2 Display Adapter. MS P.S. John, your 8503 works, so you can cash my check. From marvin at rain.org Sat Apr 3 15:27:22 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Stuff for Sale Message-ID: <406F2C3A.2553456E@rain.org> In an effort to get a place to move around, I am starting to move stuff out, and am putting stuff up regularly on the Vintage Computer Marketplace. One question: if anyone is interested in the older PC cards, motherboards, full height floppy drives, some S-100 stuff, etc., etc., etc., is it better to sell it untested at a low price, or sell it tested/working and raise the price? Is there any interest in older databooks? There are still some people I owe stuff to and as I run across it, I'll get in touch via email. No, I am not getting out of collecting but I *need* to get some space to work :)!!! From vcf at siconic.com Sat Apr 3 15:34:27 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: IBM VGA Displays? In-Reply-To: <0404032126.AA03962@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Apr 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > Is anyone interested in IBM Type 8512 (14") or 8514 (17") VGA displays > > (circa late 1980s, PS/2)? > > Does 8512 work? If it does, I'm interested. I have an 8512 that appears toast. > I also have a working 8503, but it's monochrome. Yes, all working/tested. Let me know if interested. I nly want $5 for the 8512 or $10 for the 8514 (I've got half a dozen or so). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sat Apr 3 15:36:19 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Stuff for Sale In-Reply-To: <406F2C3A.2553456E@rain.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Apr 2004, Marvin Johnston wrote: > One question: if anyone is interested in the older PC cards, > motherboards, full height floppy drives, some S-100 stuff, etc., etc., > etc., is it better to sell it untested at a low price, or sell it > tested/working and raise the price? If you want more money then yes, testing will definitely net a higher price. Will it be worth it? How much is your time worth? Testing some of those boards will take lots of time or work in tracking down the right documentation or software. > Is there any interest in older databooks? Indeed. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Apr 3 17:27:50 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:39 2005 Subject: Apple Computer Collecting In-Reply-To: <2352.65.123.179.125.1080946938.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of ghldbrd@ccp.com > Sent: 03 April 2004 00:02 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Apple Computer Collecting > > price, for nothing else than the color. I picked up a IIc+ > not knowing it was the fastest Apple II built, and that to me > makes it sorta collectable. Now if I could find the LCD > display for it, I'd really have something. The IIc+ had an LCD display? I've got a IIc+ but nothing to run on it since it has the 3 1/2" drive instead of the 5 1/4"......any pix or info on the LCD? > Almost forgot, the early Lisas are commanding pretty good > prices on e-pay, but that is an exception. The later Lisas > were upgraded to Mac O/S, and they aren't as valuable. This is the point I chip in with a gnashing-of-teeth-style tale of woe. Yesterday I picked up a nice condition ][GS with screen/floppies etc from an ex-apple dealer, and he told me that he'd thrown out/skipped/smashed/burned Mac 128s, Mac 512s, Lisa parts, *hundreds* of Lisa manuals including LisaOS on twiggys, boxes of twiggy disks etc.... 5 months ago. Still, he gave me a Lisa lapel badge so that's ok :-/ Now excuse me while I go off to weep into me beer..... -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Sat Apr 3 17:39:27 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Stuff for Sale In-Reply-To: <406F2C3A.2553456E@rain.org> Message-ID: <20040403233927.23494.qmail@web12405.mail.yahoo.com> --- Marvin Johnston wrote: > etc., is it better to sell it untested at a low > price, or sell it > tested/working and raise the price? > > In my experience its not worth the time to test it, you will get a higher price, but not much higher. It takes time to test it but the bigger problem is that the buyer will expect it to work when he receives it, this can be a real problem when the buyer doesn't know how to use it to begin with or doesn't know how to do simple things like reseat the boards. You could spend hours on the phone and end up with a bad experience. Even if something works I always sell it "as is, untested" __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From aek at spies.com Sat Apr 3 17:46:09 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: PERQ cpu technical manual Message-ID: <200404032346.i33Nk9uF012635@spies.com> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/perq/PERQ_CPU_Tech_Ref.pdf Finally got around to converting this from LaTeX to pdf. Does anyone have 1a schems? From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Sat Apr 3 17:43:57 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Apple Computer Collecting In-Reply-To: <406DEF29.F935EAAB@rain.org> Message-ID: <20040403234357.72402.qmail@web12404.mail.yahoo.com> --- Marvin Johnston wrote: > > What in the Apple line of computers, etc. is worth > keeping, i.e. > hardware, software, documentation, and books? > Besides the Apple I, are > there any other "holy grail" type of items? > > There were a few hundred apple II's sold as a kit, so they are as rare as the Apple I. Apple III dealer demo units are rare too, there were alot of them, but most were returned to Apple. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 3 17:24:37 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Looking for mac Plus info In-Reply-To: <20040402222429.RYWG15811.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@TOSSAT> from "Chris Saunders" at Apr 2, 4 05:24:27 pm Message-ID: > A few years ago I picked up a old Plus to convert into an aquarium (I know, > I know; but it was a fun idea). I had never quite seem a Plus like this > before. It had a Sticker to denote it was a plus. It did not have printing > or a platic label. It was simply a sticker. > > > > Now, Plus was stolen (why people stole it was beyond me), but I am still > curious of the history that Mac may have had. At one point there was an upgrade kit for the Mac 512 to the Mac+. I think it included an exchange logic ('digital') board and a new back cover (since the I/O sockets are totally different). You used the old PSU/video ('analogue') board, CRT, drive and front panel. I assume you also got a label to stick on the front to say it was now a Mac+. THis sounde like what you had. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 3 18:00:54 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: PERQ cpu technical manual In-Reply-To: <200404032346.i33Nk9uF012635@spies.com> from "Al Kossow" at Apr 3, 4 03:46:09 pm Message-ID: > > > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/perq/PERQ_CPU_Tech_Ref.pdf > > Finally got around to converting this from LaTeX to pdf. You mean you actually perefer a format that can't be read on an ASR33 :-). > > Does anyone have 1a schems? Should do, but I don't have a scanner. If all you want is the CPU diagrams to go with the TechRef, then the PERQ 2T1 or 2T2 CPU schematics are the same, and they're not too hard to find. What I don't think anyone has is the T4 schematics, although you can deduce a bit of them from the TechRef. -tony From aek at spies.com Sat Apr 3 22:21:10 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: PERQ cpu technical manual Message-ID: <200404040421.i344LAbm010937@spies.com> > Does anyone have 1a schems? Should do, but I don't have a scanner. If all you want is the CPU diagrams to go with the TechRef, then the PERQ 2T1 or 2T2 CPU schematics are the same, and they're not too hard to find. What I don't think anyone has is the T4 schematics, although you can deduce a bit of them from the TechRef. -- Is there anyone near Tony that would be able to make copies of these so they can be scanned and added to the archives? From oldbear at arctos.com Sat Apr 3 17:51:26 2004 From: oldbear at arctos.com (Will Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Digital Equipment stuff available Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20040403180344.00bbe100@216.230.209.13> It's finally come to that time when I have to reduce the amount of stuff I have been hoarding. (My wife wants to move to a smaller house.) I have a number of items of DEC hardware and software from around 1980. I haven't done a complete inventory, but among the items are: 2 Rainbow 100 personal computers both with hard disk (5mB? 10mB?), extended memory and accessory "I-drive" for reading IBM pc-format double sided diskettes. 1 Decmate II word-processor using PDP-8 architecture in a form factor similar to the Rainbow. 1 Decmate word-processor. This is a the VT-100 type terminal containing a PDP-8 processor, mounted on a pedestal base which contains dual 8-inch floppy drives and power supply. (The VT-100 type keyboard has some missing key caps.) 3 VR-201 monitors (At least one is amber, the others are green and possibly white phosphor CRTs.) 2 VR-241 RGB color monitors incl. BNC cables. 1 VT-240 serial terminal 3 LK-201 keyboards. Two of these have the "gold key" word processing key caps. 1 Floor stand for Rainbow. Holds system unit in a vertical position. Designed by DEC for proper airflow. 1 LQP-02 wide letter-quality impact printer. 1 Diablo 620 daisy-wheel impact printer with selectable serial or parallel interface. 2 LA-50 dot matrix printers. 2 DECpc 420sx personal computers. Interconnecting cables for the monitors and printers, etc. Many various "DEC certified" software packages. 3rd party software for things like graphic design, calendaring, telecom, etc. DEC handbooks, support documents, catalogs of DEC and 3rd party software, users group newsletters, early FIDO bbs software and manuals, transcripts of online discussions about DEC pc hardware, and more. Several boxes of 8-inch diskettes for use in the RX01 drives of the Decmate I. Color plastic storage boxes for these diskettes. Also, DEC-formatted 5.25-inch diskettes for Rainbow and DECmate II. Printer ribbons, extra daisy-wheels in many fonts, some internal components such as OEM disk mounting hardware and cables for the Rainbows, etc. I am located in an inner suburb of Boston and would like to send all this stuff to be adopted by a good home. If interested, please email me at oldbear@arctos.com Regards, Will From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Apr 4 05:34:57 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Apple ProFile interface protocol? Message-ID: <1081074896.31770.8.camel@weka.localdomain> Hi, I gather the interface for Apple ProFile drives is just parallel - is the actual protocol documented anywhere? I'm tempted to have the /// on display at the museum, but am less keen on having the ProFile units there - but emulating one with something else (eg. PC host) might be a possibility if the protocol is simple enough. (I'd also quite like to get all the existing data off the ProFile drives) cheers Jules From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Apr 4 08:01:39 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Apple ProFile interface protocol? In-Reply-To: <1081074896.31770.8.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules Richardson > Sent: 04 April 2004 11:35 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Apple ProFile interface protocol? > > Hi, > > I gather the interface for Apple ProFile drives is just > parallel - is the actual protocol documented anywhere? > > I'm tempted to have the /// on display at the museum, but am > less keen on having the ProFile units there - but emulating > one with something else (eg. PC host) might be a possibility > if the protocol is simple enough. Given the stuff they've already got laying about for people to play with, including the Lisa and the SX64 once they're fixed I wouldn't worry about the profile. Plus, they're not exactly uncommon beasts so replacements can still be had. A couple of years ago someone here was talking about writing a Profile emulator but I'm not sure how far they got. Cheers w From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Apr 4 12:16:45 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Spare .22uf@X film capacitor anyone? Message-ID: Hi folks, I don't know whether this has anything to do with the unfortunate storage 'facility' (I use the word loosely) forced on the volunteers at Bletchley Park, but yesterday I rescued a DEC GIGI that was stuck (?) to a shelf and left it in bits on a big radiator to get rid of any lurking dampness. Unfortunately my ol' enemy the failing film capacitor got me again and now the room stinks :) http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/magicsmoke.jpg Anyone got a spare 0.22uF@X (40/085/56 PME271)) and a 0.1uF@X (ditto)? So far the 0.1uF one is cracked and hasn't blown yet; obviously I don't trust it to last much longer! Thanks! -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From alhartman at yahoo.com Sun Apr 4 13:03:21 2004 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Atari ST In-Reply-To: <200404041700.i34H09J9037435@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040404180321.17765.qmail@web13425.mail.yahoo.com> Hi people! I'm looking for two things (one or the other). A Manual for an AERCO Easie-ST Ram upgrade Kit for the Atari 520-ST. OR An upgrade kit to upgrade an Atari ST to 4mb of RAM. I have an Aerco Adapter that isn't working, and I think I need the manual to tech it out, AND to upgrade it to 4mb of RAM. I have a Spectre-128 for it, and I'd love to be able to use this machine as a MacPlus for kicks. But 512k isn't enough RAM to do anything useful. Also.. Looking for a SCSI Adapter for the ST as well. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Apr 4 13:05:22 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Spare .22uf@X film capacitor anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1081101921.31771.57.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-04-04 at 18:16, Witchy wrote: > Hi folks, > > I don't know whether this has anything to do with the unfortunate storage > 'facility' (I use the word loosely) forced on the volunteers at Bletchley > Park, but yesterday I rescued a DEC GIGI that was stuck (?) to a shelf and > left it in bits on a big radiator to get rid of any lurking dampness. > Unfortunately my ol' enemy the failing film capacitor got me again and now > the room stinks :) Now I'm pretty spooked! I turned on the Apple /// earlier and bang - the 0.22uF cap in the PSU let go, filling the room with smoke. Luckily I had a spare handy, which seemed fortunate. Then I turned on the Torch I'd got yesterday after putting one of my spare PSUs in it (the original was toast). Turned it on and bang - smoke everywhere. Again. Guess what - *another* 0.22uF PSU cap, identical to the one in the '/// had decided to blow up on me. That's three between us on the same day - what's going on?? :-) My throat's killing me now... cheers Jules From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Apr 4 12:25:04 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Atari ST References: <20040404180321.17765.qmail@web13425.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <407044F0.2070009@jetnet.ab.ca> Al Hartman wrote: > Hi people! > But 512k isn't enough RAM to do anything useful Look what Bill Gates can do in 640K. :) Well memory relative I guess, 512 MEG don't seem to CUT it now days! A long jump from 4k of memory on the early machines. Ben. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Apr 4 14:31:33 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Honeywell DPS-6 and other stuff Message-ID: I've been contacted by a credit union in southern California that has a Honeywell DPS-6 among some other stuff. The list includes: Honeywell DPS-6 Spectralogic ST865 tape drive Honeywell-Bull tape drive (in a large cabinet) Something with model number B01730 (the only information I have on this) AlphaServer 2100 (225Mhz, .5GB RAM, (5) RZ28 HD, (6) VT320, TSZ70) Very large UPS (two racks, lots of batteries) The location is City of Commerce, California (south Los Angeles). The Honeywell DPS-6 is the coolest member of this lot. I would not mind having it but for a couple issues, primarily my lack of time for embarking on a long-distance haul and my desire to rid myself of large things at this point as opposed to acquiring them. And I already have one, though it's in rough shape. I'm going to give the Computer History Museum first dibs on the DPS-6. The rest of the stuff is up for grabs. The company just wants it hauled off and they need it gone within a month or so. In case the CHM does not want the DPS-6 but you do, let me know. GCOS (the OS for the DPS-6) was inspired by Multics. Some information here: http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?GCOS ...and here: http://perso.club-internet.fr/febcm/english/gcos_6_products.htm So it could be a fun machine to hack on if you have the room. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Sun Apr 4 15:00:10 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers References: <20040401174522.GK1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org><20040401174522.GK1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org><3.0.6.32.20040401210501.00975b50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <20040402043657.GS1900@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <024001c41a81$c3ba8220$285f4ed5@geoff> Americans shrinking as Junk food takes it's toll. Today's issue of " The Observer" - fairly well respected Sunday newspaper- tells us that the average American is shrinking , and puts the blame on junk food amongst other things. The Dutch are now, on average, the tallest in Europe and even us Brits are leaving you Yanks behind. They blame this on the ever increasing social inequality in the US of A , - 8 Million with no job , 40M with no health insurance and 35M below the poverty line. A population existing mainly on junk food ( so it says). It has to be said that does not affect your better off people to the same extent, nor is it a function of immigration. If a socialist state of sorts would sort it out , I would say go for it . >From this side of the pond , Clinton had a great deal of respect ( even allowing for the peccadillos ). Bush might as well be a raspberry farmer - that's all he gets over here. ( and apologies to raspberry farmers everywhere.) I would otherwise agree with all the other things you say are wrong in your society ( and ours )- big business runs riot. If this is off topic , I didn't start it. Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 5:36 AM Subject: Re: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers > Quothe Joe R., from writings of Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 09:05:01PM -0500: > > Do you REALLY think anything will be different under the democrats!? > > Aside from a different Skullbone (Bonehead?) in Chief, there will be > at least one difference: the nation will move even closer to towards > being a complete totalitarian socialist state. Neither candidate > appears concerned with solving any of this nation's biggest ills such > as confiscatory levels of taxation (although people with very large > incomes and families with children get nice income tax breaks, the > rest of us get screwed to make up for it, and we're all equal victims > of the many other taxes), an increasingly annoying and dangerous > continued transformation of a once free nation that valued freedom and > liberty into a totalitarian "nanny state", overpopulation and > excessive land destruction ("development"), once safe and prosperous > cities that have been transmogrified into dangerous deteriorating > jungles (one can thank the promoters of a welfare state in exchange > for minority votes for that), excessive overseas job/career > outsourcing; grossly overpaid, corrupt and wasteful politicians; the > dangerous problem of middle-income salaries being eliminated with "job > growth" coming from low-paying service jobs, an out-of-control > pharmaceutical industry pushing certain unnecessary drugs off on > people who don't truly need them and are harmed by them---assisted by > politicians and physicians, a false economy based on growth rather > than stability, etc., to name just a few things that few US > politicians want to discuss. > > -- > Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Apr 4 16:22:41 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Atari ST In-Reply-To: <407044F0.2070009@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <20040404180321.17765.qmail@web13425.mail.yahoo.com> <407044F0.2070009@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <31198a9a4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <407044F0.2070009@jetnet.ab.ca> ben franchuk wrote: > Al Hartman wrote: > > Hi people! > > But 512k isn't enough RAM to do anything useful > Look what Bill Gates can do in 640K. :) I've got a 386 PC sitting behind me running Caldera DR-DOS 7.03. It's got 8MB of base RAM and is fitted with an Ethernet card. I've even got it communicating with the SAMBA (Windows File And Print Sharing) server. Without the SMB junk loaded, it's got 617KB of free "conventional" RAM. With SMB (well, M$ Client for DOS) loaded, it usually has about 417KB free. Did I mention the fact that both Turbo Pascal 7 and Turbo C++ 3 will run quite happily on this system? > Well memory relative I guess, 512 MEG don't seem to > CUT it now days! My fileserver's running OK with 96MB, the graphics workstation (Linux based P3-560) works fine with 128MB of RAM. Oh, and the RISC PC only has 64MB, but I very rarely see "Out of memory" errors on it. > A long jump from 4k of memory on the early machines. 4K?! Luxury! "Why, when I was a kid, we had 256 BYTES of RAM, and we jolly well liked it!" (yeah, sure, Grampa). :) I did have a Sinclair ZX81 at one point - unfortunately the power supply blew and took out the voltage regulator and most of the ICs on the board. It was deemed beyond repair :( Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Now where did I put that fire extinguisher? From jingber at ix.netcom.com Sun Apr 4 16:26:14 2004 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Atari ST In-Reply-To: <31198a9a4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> References: <20040404180321.17765.qmail@web13425.mail.yahoo.com> <407044F0.2070009@jetnet.ab.ca> <31198a9a4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <1081113974.24415.1.camel@netfinity> On Sun, 2004-04-04 at 22:22 +0100, Philip Pemberton wrote: How are you doing this? MS Lan Manager doesn't speak SMB AFAIK, and Samba doesn't speak NetBEUI. Jeff > I've got a 386 PC sitting behind me running Caldera DR-DOS 7.03. It's got 8MB > of base RAM and is fitted with an Ethernet card. I've even got it > communicating with the SAMBA (Windows File And Print Sharing) server. Without > the SMB junk loaded, it's got 617KB of free "conventional" RAM. With SMB > (well, M$ Client for DOS) loaded, it usually has about 417KB free. Did I > mention the fact that both Turbo Pascal 7 and Turbo C++ 3 will run quite > happily on this system? From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun Apr 4 16:54:57 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Atari ST In-Reply-To: <1081113974.24415.1.camel@netfinity> References: <20040404180321.17765.qmail@web13425.mail.yahoo.com> <31198a9a4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <1081113974.24415.1.camel@netfinity> Message-ID: <200404041654.57925.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Sunday 04 April 2004 16:26, Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: > On Sun, 2004-04-04 at 22:22 +0100, Philip Pemberton wrote: > > How are you doing this? MS Lan Manager doesn't speak SMB AFAIK, and > Samba doesn't speak NetBEUI. SMB == the protocol on top of NetBEUI/IPX/IP that is Microsoft disk and printer sharing. And MS Lan Man does speak IP, I've set it up before. > > I've got a 386 PC sitting behind me running Caldera DR-DOS 7.03. > > It's got 8MB of base RAM and is fitted with an Ethernet card. I've > > even got it communicating with the SAMBA (Windows File And Print > > Sharing) server. Without the SMB junk loaded, it's got 617KB of > > free "conventional" RAM. With SMB (well, M$ Client for DOS) loaded, > > it usually has about 417KB free. Did I mention the fact that both > > Turbo Pascal 7 and Turbo C++ 3 will run quite happily on this > > system? Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From aek at spies.com Sun Apr 4 17:53:45 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Honeywell DPS-6 and other stuff Message-ID: <200404042253.i34MrjW5032111@spies.com> > Something with model number B01730 (the only information I have on this) Burroughs B1730 ? From vax3900 at yahoo.com Sun Apr 4 19:14:53 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Ebay schematic for those who want to build their own VAX Message-ID: <20040405001453.96964.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> A lot of them. But I don't have the budget for any of those... Go ahead __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From aek at spies.com Sun Apr 4 19:21:37 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Ebay schematic for those who want to build their own VAX Message-ID: <200404050021.i350Lb0u023874@spies.com> I've scanned all of these already. Some are up on bitsavers. From chriss at kingston.net Sun Apr 4 19:32:53 2004 From: chriss at kingston.net (Chris Saunders) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Looking for cable TV card for Mac In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040405003251.MOTE7304.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@TOSSAT> Norm, I have a 6320 with the TV card. I am in Canada FYI. Send me a note or reply to the list. ChriS -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Norm and Beth Anheier Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 10:08 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Looking for cable TV card for Mac I am trying to help a friend locate a cable tuner board with cable TV type connector that came with some of the school 5400/200's. If anyone has a spare, please send up a flare. Thanks Norm From brad at heeltoe.com Sun Apr 4 20:05:15 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Ebay schematic for those who want to build their own VAX In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 04 Apr 2004 17:14:53 PDT." <20040405001453.96964.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200404050105.i3515Fq11668@mwave.heeltoe.com> SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: >A lot of them. But I don't have the budget for any of >those... Go ahead where? -brad From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun Apr 4 20:24:42 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Ebay schematic for those who want to build their own VAX In-Reply-To: <200404050105.i3515Fq11668@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200404050105.i3515Fq11668@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <200404042024.42206.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Sunday 04 April 2004 20:05, Brad Parker wrote: > SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: > >A lot of them. But I don't have the budget for any of > >those... Go ahead > > where? Well, there's the obvious place: http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?query=VAX Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Apr 4 21:35:21 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Honeywell DPS-6 and other stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >In case the CHM does not want the DPS-6 but you do, let me know. GCOS >(the OS for the DPS-6) was inspired by Multics. Some information here: > >http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?GCOS Keep in mind that there are different flavors of GCOS, with probably the main thing in common being the letters "GCOS". Interesting link above, it lists GCOS-64 as being inspired by Multics, and was a 32-bit OS. GCOS-6 is totally different and for the 16-bit systems. >...and here: > >http://perso.club-internet.fr/febcm/english/gcos_6_products.htm > >So it could be a fun machine to hack on if you have the room. What I'd *really* like is to get my hands on the DPS-6 emulator that runs on at least HP-UX 8 (HP 9000-750). Just over ten years I helped move setup from DPS-6's to such 4 HP 9000-750's running the emulator for most things. I'd be even more interested in a DPS-8 emulator with a copy of GCOS-8, as I used to work as a Systems Analyst on 4 CPU DPS-8 installation. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Apr 4 21:45:14 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Ebay schematic for those who want to build their own VAX In-Reply-To: <200404050105.i3515Fq11668@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200404050105.i3515Fq11668@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: >SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: >>A lot of them. But I don't have the budget for any of >>those... Go ahead > >where? > >-brad Good question, all I really see are PDP-11 schematics, and peripherial schematics, actually I guess there are a couple VAX-11/785 ones as well. I think he's talking about these: http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=rovent&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50 An interesting stack. I'd be tempted but there are other things I need more, such as a replacement for my dying VMS server (PWS 433au). Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Sun Apr 4 20:54:50 2004 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Mac Iici won't fire up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040404215393.SM02600@bobdev> I have a Mac Iici that won't power up. It worked when I last used it about a month ago. Now, if I press the power switch on the ADB device (I'm using an ADB to PS/2 mouse/keyboard converted and Mac to VGA converter, which has a power ON switch on it) or the power button on the back, nothing. I swapped power supplies with a working power supply from another Mac Iici, but that didn't fix it. I removed the CPU accellerator card and the NUBUS cards, but it still wouldn't power up. Probably a dead motherboard? I suppose I could transfer my hard drive and memory to the other Iici I have, but it has broken SIMM holders so I'd have to shim the chips with folded paper. I think one of the broken holders is the first one, so that makes it hard to shim. Any other ideas of things I can try to revive this Iici? Thanks. - Bob From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Apr 4 21:05:36 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Mac Iici won't fire up In-Reply-To: <20040404215393.SM02600@bobdev> References: <20040404215393.SM02600@bobdev> Message-ID: <20040405020536.GB24849@mapo1.spole.gov> On Sun, Apr 04, 2004 at 09:54:50PM -0400, Bob Lafleur wrote: > I have a Mac Iici that won't power up. It worked when I last used it about a > month ago. Now, if I press the power switch on the ADB device (I'm using an > ADB to PS/2 mouse/keyboard converted and Mac to VGA converter, which has a > power ON switch on it) or the power button on the back, nothing. . . . > Any other ideas of things I can try to revive this Iici? Thanks. Check the motherboard battery -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 05-Apr-2004 02:01 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -37.5 F (-38.6 C) Windchill -104.7 F (-76 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 25.1 kts Grid 347 Barometer 680.2 mb (10619. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Apr 4 21:17:55 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Mac Iici won't fire up In-Reply-To: <20040404215393.SM02600@bobdev> References: <20040404215393.SM02600@bobdev> Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Apr 2004, Bob Lafleur wrote: > I have a Mac Iici that won't power up. It worked when I last used it about a > month ago. Now, if I press the power switch on the ADB device (I'm using an > ADB to PS/2 mouse/keyboard converted and Mac to VGA converter, which has a > power ON switch on it) or the power button on the back, nothing. Sounds like the NVRAM battery has delivered it's last watt to the MoBo... Same thing happened on my old 7100/80. In the middle of a recording session. At 3-goddam-AM.... Cheerz John From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Sun Apr 4 21:22:18 2004 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Mac Iici won't fire up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200404042220875.SM02600@bobdev> > Sounds like the NVRAM battery has delivered it's last watt to the MoBo... This is a new battery I put in it last year. But I can check it... I have another new one I can put in. My other Iici that does fire up (but has munged SIMM slots) still has the original battery. I'm sure it is dead, but the machine still fires. From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Sun Apr 4 21:23:39 2004 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Mac Iici won't fire up In-Reply-To: <20040405020536.GB24849@mapo1.spole.gov> Message-ID: <200404042222312.SM02600@bobdev> > Check the motherboard battery I forget... Is that under the drives, or under the power supply? When I changed it about a year go I remember ripping everything out, then realizing I had taken out more than I really needed to. - Bob From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Apr 4 22:01:20 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Mac Iici won't fire up In-Reply-To: <20040404215393.SM02600@bobdev> References: <20040404215393.SM02600@bobdev> Message-ID: <4070CC00.4000902@jcwren.com> Build a Mac IIci a fire, and it's warm for the night. Set a Mac IIci on fire, and it's warm for the rest of it's life :) --jc Bob Lafleur wrote: >I have a Mac Iici that won't power up. It worked when I last used it about a >month ago. Now, if I press the power switch on the ADB device (I'm using an >ADB to PS/2 mouse/keyboard converted and Mac to VGA converter, which has a >power ON switch on it) or the power button on the back, nothing. > >I swapped power supplies with a working power supply from another Mac Iici, >but that didn't fix it. > >I removed the CPU accellerator card and the NUBUS cards, but it still >wouldn't power up. > >Probably a dead motherboard? I suppose I could transfer my hard drive and >memory to the other Iici I have, but it has broken SIMM holders so I'd have >to shim the chips with folded paper. I think one of the broken holders is >the first one, so that makes it hard to shim. > >Any other ideas of things I can try to revive this Iici? Thanks. > > - Bob > > > From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Sun Apr 4 22:08:00 2004 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: HP 200LX In-Reply-To: <005901c41788$7b41d6c0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <005901c41788$7b41d6c0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <4070CD90.2060302@ssl.berkeley.edu> Jay West wrote: > I have a SanDisk compactflash card, 4mb SDCFB with a PCMCIA adapter. It > doesn't work in my 200LX. I thought sandisk was one of the "usually works > with 200LX" cards. > > I'd like to buy something on ebay, but need to know which ones will work :\ > Any guidance? > I'm having no problems with 64MB Lexar CF cards in an IBM CF-PCMCIA adapter on my 200LX. Eric From esharpe at uswest.net Sun Apr 4 22:48:56 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Honeywell DPS-6 and other stuff References: Message-ID: <000f01c41ac0$ebb70660$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> let us know if it is available. it would go wonderful here in the ge/honeywell/bull display here in the museum in Arizona ( home of the ge computer department in the old days. no, gecos also called gcos after the honeywell GE combine was not based on multix gecos predated it as far as I know... gecos was a batch system with an interactive front end... Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" ; "Bay Area Computer Collector List" Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2004 12:31 PM Subject: Honeywell DPS-6 and other stuff > > I've been contacted by a credit union in southern California that has a > Honeywell DPS-6 among some other stuff. > > The list includes: > > Honeywell DPS-6 > Spectralogic ST865 tape drive > Honeywell-Bull tape drive (in a large cabinet) > Something with model number B01730 (the only information I have on this) > AlphaServer 2100 (225Mhz, .5GB RAM, (5) RZ28 HD, (6) VT320, TSZ70) > Very large UPS (two racks, lots of batteries) > > The location is City of Commerce, California (south Los Angeles). > > The Honeywell DPS-6 is the coolest member of this lot. I would not mind > having it but for a couple issues, primarily my lack of time for > embarking on a long-distance haul and my desire to rid myself of large > things at this point as opposed to acquiring them. And I already have > one, though it's in rough shape. > > I'm going to give the Computer History Museum first dibs on the DPS-6. > The rest of the stuff is up for grabs. The company just wants it hauled > off and they need it gone within a month or so. > > In case the CHM does not want the DPS-6 but you do, let me know. GCOS > (the OS for the DPS-6) was inspired by Multics. Some information here: > > http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?GCOS > > ...and here: > > http://perso.club-internet.fr/febcm/english/gcos_6_products.htm > > So it could be a fun machine to hack on if you have the room. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From spectre at floodgap.com Sun Apr 4 23:18:58 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Mac Iici won't fire up In-Reply-To: <200404042220875.SM02600@bobdev> from Bob Lafleur at "Apr 4, 4 10:22:18 pm" Message-ID: <200404050418.UAA12102@floodgap.com> > > Sounds like the NVRAM battery has delivered it's last watt to the MoBo... > > This is a new battery I put in it last year. But I can check it... I have > another new one I can put in. My other Iici that does fire up (but has > munged SIMM slots) still has the original battery. I'm sure it is dead, but > the machine still fires. A dead PRAM battery won't cause a IIci to stop booting up (although a dead PRAM battery is one of the causes of a black screen for many Quadras and LCs). If you've already replaced the power supply with a known good one, then the motherboard is shot (I've had this happen to a IIci myself, and there's not a whole lot I know of to fix it -- I think it's a problem with one of the caps, but darned if I can tell you which one to test and replace). One other cause of a dead IIci is losing the jumper on J1 (I think), which effectively lobotomizes the unit. However, this is an easy way of turning an otherwise idle IIci into an overgrown hard disk enclosure, and I have a IIci which is doing nothing at the moment acting as power and SCSI input to my old 4.3GB drive while I copy files off of it. Happily, the unit is restored to full function by putting the jumper back on, of course. If you have a cache card in it, try pulling it, although I've never heard of a dead cache card causing a totally unconscious unit (usually a wonky cache card just causes inexplicable errors once the machine gets going). I think you said you'd already tried pulling all the cards, memory, etc., though. Any possible SCSI termination issues on this unit? -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- The first duty of a revolutionary is to get away with it. -- Abbie Hoffman - From cvendel at att.net Mon Apr 5 00:26:32 2004 From: cvendel at att.net (cvendel@att.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Sales Brochure Collectors Message-ID: <040520040526.24438.4070EE080009F53700005F762160376021FF939A9B919A89@att.net> If you're into collecting computer sales brochures and catalogs either for collecting purposes or for content for your website, have a look at these Mac, Amiga and Towns FM "Marty" items: http://www.bidiots.com/search.asp?searchtxt=brochure&catid=&searchtype=0 Curt From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Mon Apr 5 01:15:59 2004 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Honeywell DPS-6 and other stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004501c41ad5$7709be60$4d4d2c0a@atx> > I'd be even more interested in a DPS-8 emulator with a copy of > GCOS-8, This would be a serious challenge - the hardware must be the extreme of a CISC having: extremely complex address modes that exceed even those of a VAX; and "EIS" instructions that are close to hardware COBOL. Interrupts only (potentially) enabled on odd(?) addressed instructions Getting and configuring a copy of GCOS-8 might also be tricky My experience was with GCOS-3 the predecessor of 8 ... extremely stable once the (necessary) user-written modules were well debugged - extremely unstable until then This may well mean that the OS stability will also depend critically on very detailed accuracy of the emulation. Andy From genemosher at comcast.net Sun Apr 4 12:08:31 2004 From: genemosher at comcast.net (Gene Mosher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Rare Computers. Message-ID: <4070410F.6050005@comcast.net> I have some Motorola PowerPC's, too. And one of the first Apple ]['s From chaswynne at comcast.net Sun Apr 4 13:30:33 2004 From: chaswynne at comcast.net (Charles Hammes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: FW: We have old Univac Manuals Message-ID: <001d01c41a72$eac7e7e0$f0b75044@HELSINKI> -----Original Message----- From: Charles Hammes [mailto:chaswynne@comcast.net] Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2004 2:26 PM To: 'cctalk-admin@type.domain.here' Subject: We have old Univac Manuals We have old Univac manuals - for the Univac I, II Programming Conventions, III Operations Manual, Univac 1004 Card Processor Reference, Univac Solid State 90 General Description, Programming, Applications, Univac Solid State 80 Reference, General Description, Operations, Programming, Remington Rand High-Speed Printer Programmers and Operations Manual, Univac Generalized Programming, .... among others. They are a bit musty. Would anyone be interested? Contact us at Inetbox@comcast.net Charlie From nick at computer-history.org Sun Apr 4 17:07:50 2004 From: nick at computer-history.org (nick@computer-history.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Apple Computer Collecting References: Message-ID: <007601c41a91$45a3a870$7a00a8c0@themillers> The Apple IIc LCD panel was a cool idea in concept but poorly executed. If you track one down make sure the display is acceptably bright. I'm currently selling mine on eBay as the display is too dim to do any real work with. Nick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Witchy" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 6:27 PM Subject: RE: Apple Computer Collecting > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of ghldbrd@ccp.com > > Sent: 03 April 2004 00:02 > > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Subject: Re: Apple Computer Collecting > > > > price, for nothing else than the color. I picked up a IIc+ > > not knowing it was the fastest Apple II built, and that to me > > makes it sorta collectable. Now if I could find the LCD > > display for it, I'd really have something. > > The IIc+ had an LCD display? I've got a IIc+ but nothing to run on it since > it has the 3 1/2" drive instead of the 5 1/4"......any pix or info on the > LCD? > > > Almost forgot, the early Lisas are commanding pretty good > > prices on e-pay, but that is an exception. The later Lisas > > were upgraded to Mac O/S, and they aren't as valuable. > > This is the point I chip in with a gnashing-of-teeth-style tale of woe. > Yesterday I picked up a nice condition ][GS with screen/floppies etc from an > ex-apple dealer, and he told me that he'd thrown out/skipped/smashed/burned > Mac 128s, Mac 512s, Lisa parts, *hundreds* of Lisa manuals including LisaOS > on twiggys, boxes of twiggy disks etc.... > > 5 months ago. > > Still, he gave me a Lisa lapel badge so that's ok :-/ > > Now excuse me while I go off to weep into me beer..... > > -- > Adrian/Witchy > Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > > From gksloane at hotmail.com Sun Apr 4 16:59:43 2004 From: gksloane at hotmail.com (Gary Sloane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: HP21X tape drive Message-ID: Still have any HP21xx stuff for sale? I have a 2116B (working) and could use periperals, options, software, manuals, spares, etc... Gary _________________________________________________________________ Free up your inbox with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! Multiple plans available. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=hotmail/es2&ST=1/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ From zibri at worldonline.it Sun Apr 4 20:17:08 2004 From: zibri at worldonline.it (Zibri) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: VMS 5.5 ISO Message-ID: <00d601c41aab$b70bf340$0100a8c0@zibriw> Hi! I wish to run VMS 5.5 on SIMH. Unfortunately compaq/hp offers hobbyst licenses for openvms not for the old vms 5.5. Do you know where could I find any version of VMS in iso format to download ? Another chance could be to backup VMS 5.5 from a running VAX... I don't know what to do.. please ! I'm a nostalgic of VAX/VMS :) ------ If You Think Something Is Impossible, Be Prepared For The Incredible. From Joe at Farley.net Sun Apr 4 21:34:37 2004 From: Joe at Farley.net (Joe Farley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: atc-510 simulator Message-ID: Michael, I found the following on a message board while surfing for info on the ATC-510 Simulator. =========================================== atc-510 simulator Michael Wallin mwallin at cinci.rr.com Wed Mar 3 14:38:16 CST 2004 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Doug- hello, not to be a pest, but I was about to list some accessories for my old atc-510 flight simulator on ebay. I searched the internet for atc-510 simulator, and only came up with a handful of results. One of them was a thread where you said you were looking for something for your 510. Please let me know 1) if you still have the unit and 2) if you are looking for any accessories. thanks for your time and sorry to bother you, Mike =========================================== I own one of these which is complete and operational with the rudder pedeles, owners manual, programing manual, and service manual. I also have VOl 1 and VOL 8 of the instruction tapes and charts. I am looking for VOL 2 thru VOL 7 of the tapes and charts. If you have these and would be willing to sell or duplicate them I would be willing to pay you a reasonable price plus actual shipping. If you no longer have them or are not interested accept my appology for bothering you in advance. Thanks Joe Farley (415) 892-2334 cell (415) 827-0601 Joe@Farley.net (PDT) From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Apr 5 03:42:01 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: Mac Iici won't fire up In-Reply-To: <20040404215393.SM02600@bobdev> References: <20040404215393.SM02600@bobdev> Message-ID: <0f4bc89a4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <20040404215393.SM02600@bobdev> "Bob Lafleur" wrote: > I have a Mac Iici that won't power up. It worked when I last used it about a > month ago. Now, if I press the power switch on the ADB device (I'm using an > ADB to PS/2 mouse/keyboard converted and Mac to VGA converter, which has a > power ON switch on it) or the power button on the back, nothing. I'm not a Mac expert, but isn't this a symptom of a dead PRAM battery? Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... How's this for diplomacy? Shoot them all! --Kirk From pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org Mon Apr 5 04:18:51 2004 From: pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:40 2005 Subject: PC-BLUE disks... References: Message-ID: <008e01c41aef$034d73d0$4601a8c0@ebrius> Thanks for that link. that's awesome! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Buckle" To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 7:35 AM Subject: PC-BLUE disks... > I recall seeing someone looking for the PC-BLUE disks recently. > > Here you go: http://cd.textfiles.com/pcblue/ > > There are over 200 disks in the archive. > >"You fool! Now we may never know if ants can be trained to sort tiny screws in space." -------------------------------------------------------------- Website - http://www.retrobbs.org Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org BBS - telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 IRC - irc.retrobbs.org #main WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki From pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org Mon Apr 5 04:30:24 2004 From: pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Mac Iici won't fire up References: <20040404215393.SM02600@bobdev> <0f4bc89a4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <00a801c41af0$a08ec1c0$4601a8c0@ebrius> I used to work in a Mac repair center. Replace the battery with one you know is good. Take the origional battery out and let the machine sit without a battery for at least 10 minutes. If this fails, let the machine sit with no battery (and not plugged in) for 24 hours. I do believe Apple got sued over this issue, as many repair centers (not ours) were replacing motherboards and charging customers hundreds of dollars when all they needed was a six dollar battery! take care, Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Pemberton" To: Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 9:42 AM Subject: Re: Mac Iici won't fire up > In message <20040404215393.SM02600@bobdev> > "Bob Lafleur" wrote: > > > I have a Mac Iici that won't power up. It worked when I last used it about a > > month ago. Now, if I press the power switch on the ADB device (I'm using an > > ADB to PS/2 mouse/keyboard converted and Mac to VGA converter, which has a > > power ON switch on it) or the power button on the back, nothing. > I'm not a Mac expert, but isn't this a symptom of a dead PRAM battery? > > Later. > -- > Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, > philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI > ... How's this for diplomacy? Shoot them all! --Kirk "You fool! Now we may never know if ants can be trained to sort tiny screws in space." -------------------------------------------------------------- Website - http://www.retrobbs.org Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org BBS - telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 IRC - irc.retrobbs.org #main WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki > From pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org Mon Apr 5 04:32:56 2004 From: pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers References: <0404012020.AA01439@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <00b501c41af0$fae4ac20$4601a8c0@ebrius> That's great! I'd love to figure out how to connect my (emulated) PDP 11 running RSTS/E to the Internet... anyone have any idea (I have it set up so you can log on to it via telnet, but I'd like to be able to have it recieve email and really talk on the net....) I used to BBS (when I was a kid) on a Silent 700 thermal printing terminal, that couldn't keep up without nuls. Those were the days! "You fool! Now we may never know if ants can be trained to sort tiny screws in space." -------------------------------------------------------------- Website - http://www.retrobbs.org Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org BBS - telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 IRC - irc.retrobbs.org #main WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Sokolov" To: Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 9:20 PM Subject: Re: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers > > YES!!! Full agreement! > > -MS, who is typing this on a VT320 logged into UNIX on a VAX and sending it with > the original Berkeley Mail program, and who does NOT own or have a PeeCee, has > NO graphics capability at all at the present, and has NO web access except with > Lynx. > > And guess what, my Spartan setup is perfectly sufficient for my current project > of designing a new VAX chip! Nothing beats writing Verilog for a VAX CPU in vi > on a VT320. > From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Mon Apr 5 07:51:54 2004 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Mac Iici won't fire up In-Reply-To: <200404050418.UAA12102@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <200404050850390.SM02600@bobdev> > I think it's a problem with one of the caps, but darned if I can tell you which one to test and replace). Hmmm... I did hear a "pop" in my office last week and said to myself, "that sounds like a cap blowing". But I just attributed it to those funny noises a house makes when the weather outside is changing temperature fast. > One other cause of a dead IIci is losing the jumper on J1 Well, the drives and PS fan don't even power up. So I'm not even sure if I could use this trick to easily connect the hard drive to another working machine, unless removing J1 will restore the drive power. I don't think that J1 could have popped off on it's own... The machine has just been sitting on the floor under my MIDI keyboard, plugged in. A few weeks ago, it worked. Yesterday, it didn't. - Bob From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Apr 5 09:21:24 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers References: <0404012020.AA01439@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <00b501c41af0$fae4ac20$4601a8c0@ebrius> Message-ID: <16497.27492.637163.95137@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Mark" == Mark Firestone writes: Mark> That's great! I'd love to figure out how to connect my Mark> (emulated) PDP 11 running RSTS/E to the Internet... anyone have Mark> any idea (I have it set up so you can log on to it via telnet, Mark> but I'd like to be able to have it recieve email and really Mark> talk on the net....) You can tunnel DECnet over IP, using GRE (RFC 2784). I don't know if there are standard tools to do that. Perhaps a Linux box could do it? Linux supports DECnet, and GRE, so the things you need may be there already. Time to do some more reading... paul From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Apr 5 10:06:09 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Motorola M68HC11EVM? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040405110609.008ef400@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> does nayone have a user's manual for this board or a link to one on the net? I spend quite a bit of time searching the net and found ONE place that is supposed to have it (in Poland) but their link is dead. Anybody know what the differences are between this board and the M68HC11EVB? Joe From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Apr 5 10:25:22 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: digital "test connectors" In-Reply-To: <404220EB.8070404@tds.net> Message-ID: Hey Jon, Did I ever send you that payment? It somehow feels like I did not, which obviously is *bad* ... ! --f On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, Jon Auringer wrote: > Hello again, > > I have the three following digital test connectors. All in good > condition. I really have no idea what they are worth and really don't > want to take the time/effort to ebay/VCM them. Any offers? > > H3271 Staggered Turnaround Test Connector (DZ11[-x]) > > H325 Line loopback test connector(DMV11, DMP11, DMR11, DPV11, > DUP11, DV11, DZ11, DZV11) > > H315B MODEM TEST CONN > > Jon > > Jon Auringer > auringer@tds.net > > -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Apr 5 10:32:51 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: digital "test connectors" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Crap. That was supposed to be a private reply... ahwell. From at258 at osfn.org Mon Apr 5 10:44:12 2004 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: FW: We have old Univac Manuals In-Reply-To: <001d01c41a72$eac7e7e0$f0b75044@HELSINKI> Message-ID: We would certainly be interested in any of these manuals, but especially those for the Solid State 80, as we have one. On Sun, 4 Apr 2004, Charles Hammes wrote: > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles Hammes [mailto:chaswynne@comcast.net] > Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2004 2:26 PM > To: 'cctalk-admin@type.domain.here' > Subject: We have old Univac Manuals > > > > We have old Univac manuals - for the Univac I, II Programming > Conventions, III Operations Manual, Univac 1004 Card Processor > Reference, Univac Solid State 90 General Description, Programming, > Applications, Univac Solid State 80 Reference, General Description, > Operations, Programming, Remington Rand High-Speed Printer Programmers > and Operations Manual, Univac Generalized Programming, .... among > others. They are a bit musty. > > > > Would anyone be interested? Contact us at Inetbox@comcast.net > > > > Charlie > > > > > > > > -- M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From mmaginnis1151 at msn.com Mon Apr 5 11:02:43 2004 From: mmaginnis1151 at msn.com (Michael Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Apple Computer Collecting In-Reply-To: <406DEF29.F935EAAB@rain.org> References: <406DEF29.F935EAAB@rain.org> Message-ID: <40718323.6010000@msn.com> Marvin Johnston wrote: > What in the Apple line of computers, etc. is worth keeping, i.e. > hardware, software, documentation, and books? Besides the Apple I, are > there any other "holy grail" type of items? > > I have several Apple printers including the Imagewriter and Imagewriter > II. Are these as common as dirt so I don't have to feel bad about > getting rid of them, or are they worth putting up on the Vintage > Computer Marketplace? I *think* the only Apple IIx I don't have is the > orginal Apple II and the "Black" Apple II+, and I would still like to > keep one each of the II line. The only Macs I am keeping are the > original 128K Macs, and maybe one of the 512K machines. > > . > De-lurking for a moment. If you decide to collect from the II line (as opposed to Macs), you'll probably find that often, the peripherals are worth more than the actual units. Accelerators (Transwarp, ZipGS, etc), hard drives, and SCSI cards are relatively high-demand items. Other stuff to keep an eye out for: The IIgs-in-a-IIe-case upgrade model The Black B&H II+ Video overlay boards for the IIgs. Original Apple II models (they've been pulling in $400+ on ePay) The 1978 Apple II Reference Manual (the "Red Book") And of course, "complete" kits (original manuals, packaging, etc) add value to the collection. -- Mike #===== =====# # Apple II user since 1983 # # "Fighting the frizzies at eleven" # #===== =====# From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 5 12:35:44 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Bit Rot? Message-ID: Is there a good description of the various forms of ROM/PROM/EPROM bit rot phenomena on the web somewhere? Or could someone provide a good description? I know in the case of EPROMs the charge will eventually "leak". And with masked ROMs and PROMs the "fuse" can actual re-grow and turn a 0 into a 1. We've discussed it briefly before. More detailed information would be appreciated. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dave04a at dunfield.com Mon Apr 5 12:47:30 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Motorola M68HC11EVM? Message-ID: <20040405174730.E2D7E1EC644@outbox.allstream.net> > does nayone have a user's manual for this board or a link to one on the >net? I spend quite a bit of time searching the net and found ONE place that >is supposed to have it (in Poland) but their link is dead. Anybody know >what the differences are between this board and the M68HC11EVB? > > Joe The main difference between the EVM and the EVB are that the EVB is essentially just a single board computer - you can load code into it and run it, and you can hook up things to the I/O ports via board connectors. The EVM is much more powerful - it includes some in-circuit emulation capability. It has a connector with adapters to fit into the MCU socket for a number of HC11 variants, and allows you to replace the target CPU with the board. The EVM also has a ZIP socket with the ability to program the on-board EEPROM of some HC11 variants. I have the MC68HC11EVM manual, but not in "electric" form - worse case I could unbind it (it's only stapled) and scan it... But that would involve a fair bit of time... so "try real hard" to find another source first - if you don't come up with anything, contact me. Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. From marvin at rain.org Mon Apr 5 13:16:02 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Enigma Message-ID: <4071A262.2FC8173A@rain.org> In checking some other stuff, I just ran across a neat site dealing with the ENIGMA CIPHER MACHINES among other antique cipher machines and calculators. The main page site is W1TP TELEGRAPH AND SCIENTIFIC INSTRUMENT MUSEUMS, and has some pretty interesting stuff on it! http://w1tp.com/ From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Apr 5 13:28:41 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Enigma Message-ID: <200404051828.LAA25105@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Marvin Johnston" > > >In checking some other stuff, I just ran across a neat site dealing with >the ENIGMA CIPHER MACHINES among other antique cipher machines and >calculators. The main page site is W1TP TELEGRAPH AND SCIENTIFIC >INSTRUMENT MUSEUMS, and has some pretty interesting stuff on it! > >http://w1tp.com/ > Hi In one of the magazines I saw yesterday at the news stand ( forget the name but it is one of those general science like magazines ). They showed a solid state enigma machine that you can get. It basically was a keyboard, lights and a uP on a PC board. I wonder if one can set the number of wheels and the other features that the fancier machines had? Dwight From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Apr 5 14:06:52 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Enigma In-Reply-To: <200404051828.LAA25105@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200404051828.LAA25105@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <1081192011.518.36.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-04-05 at 19:28, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > Hi > In one of the magazines I saw yesterday at the news stand > ( forget the name but it is one of those general science > like magazines ). They showed a solid state enigma machine > that you can get. You can get these ones from Bletchley: https://secure.bletchleypark.org.uk/newshop/shopcategory.asp?productcode=ENIG050 (sorry for any line wrapping) They're pretty good by all accounts; one of the volunteers is building one at the moment so I'll have a play around with it when he's done building it. cheers Jules From allain at panix.com Mon Apr 5 14:50:36 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Enigma References: <4071A262.2FC8173A@rain.org> Message-ID: <006b01c41b47$4b3048a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > W1TP TELEGRAPH AND SCIENTIFIC > INSTRUMENT MUSEUMS > http://w1tp.com/ The guy that runs that site visits the MIT flea market about 3 times a year FYI. I got to operate an enigma for a short bit a few years ago, THX to Tom. John A. From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Apr 5 15:42:55 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Enigma References: <4071A262.2FC8173A@rain.org> Message-ID: <16497.50383.544091.944211@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Marvin" == Marvin Johnston writes: Marvin> In checking some other stuff, I just ran across a neat site Marvin> dealing with the ENIGMA CIPHER MACHINES among other antique Marvin> cipher machines and calculators. The main page site is W1TP Marvin> TELEGRAPH AND SCIENTIFIC INSTRUMENT MUSEUMS, and has some Marvin> pretty interesting stuff on it! Marvin> http://w1tp.com/ Neat, thanks! As happens a lot with Enigma descriptions, you see lots of references to English work and none to Polish work. This in spite of the fact that Poles did the original hard part of cracking Enigma, and the English contribution was really more in mass-producing the process and tweaking it as the Germans made incremental changes to the Enigma machines. The links to the van Verk Enigma-like machine are worth looking at, in particular her website which shows a bunch of other impressive mechanical and electronic work. paul From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Apr 5 16:02:44 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: 8-level punched tape on eBay Message-ID: Maybe this guy is unwittingly cutting up and selling the last remaining bootloader tape for...... ? machine ? Like Lizt finding Bach's original mauscripts being used to wrap fish in... Anyway: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3714975807&category=12 Also could be machine tool NC tape - dunno - Cheerz John From sastevens at earthlink.net Mon Apr 5 16:08:25 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Atari ST In-Reply-To: <1081113974.24415.1.camel@netfinity> References: <20040404180321.17765.qmail@web13425.mail.yahoo.com> <407044F0.2070009@jetnet.ab.ca> <31198a9a4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <1081113974.24415.1.camel@netfinity> Message-ID: <20040405160825.6e3343c4.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 17:26:14 -0400 "Jeffrey H. Ingber" wrote: > On Sun, 2004-04-04 at 22:22 +0100, Philip Pemberton wrote: > > How are you doing this? MS Lan Manager doesn't speak SMB AFAIK, and > Samba doesn't speak NetBEUI. > > Jeff > > > > I've got a 386 PC sitting behind me running Caldera DR-DOS 7.03. It's got 8MB > > of base RAM and is fitted with an Ethernet card. I've even got it > > communicating with the SAMBA (Windows File And Print Sharing) server. Without > > the SMB junk loaded, it's got 617KB of free "conventional" RAM. With SMB > > (well, M$ Client for DOS) loaded, it usually has about 417KB free. Did I > > mention the fact that both Turbo Pascal 7 and Turbo C++ 3 will run quite > > happily on this system? > > There are TCP/IP drivers for the Microsoft Client for DOS. Samba 'just works' with it. I used to run it years ago with a Linux box with the 1.2 kernel. You can set up the Microsoft Client to boot up from just a single diskette if you trim down the config to the bare minimum. Then you can put up a system with just a floppy disk, no hard drive, with the Samba share mounting as C:. I found through experimentation that you can then install Windows 3.1 on that 'C' drive from the floppy disks. Windows 3, installed this way, doesn't even know there is a network involved. So you can then have a whole system booting from a floppy that has a network mounted Windows 3 on it. This is, of course, of limited value today, but it's interesting to fool with, or it was back when all some of us could afford was a single 386 box to run Windows, so we had to use 286 and earlier boxes to 'fool around' with networking at home. And to be honest, I wish I'd been scarfing up Dec and old Sun stuff back then and not diddling around with PC junk and those 3Com ethernet cards I got at a surplus store (ancient 3c501s) for $2.50 a pound. From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Apr 5 16:15:41 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: 8-level punched tape on eBay References: Message-ID: <16497.52349.801497.200985@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "John" == John Lawson writes: John> Maybe this guy is unwittingly cutting up and selling the last John> remaining bootloader tape for...... ? machine ? John> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3714975807&category=12 John> Also could be machine tool NC tape - dunno - NC looks like a good theory -- the patterns seem suspiciously regular for a program tape. The comment made earlier about P.T.Barnum's rule seems to apply here... paul From sastevens at earthlink.net Mon Apr 5 16:18:10 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Bit Rot? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040405161810.4c5bb426.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 10:35:44 -0700 (PDT) Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Is there a good description of the various forms of ROM/PROM/EPROM bit rot > phenomena on the web somewhere? Or could someone provide a good > description? > > I know in the case of EPROMs the charge will eventually "leak". And with > masked ROMs and PROMs the "fuse" can actual re-grow and turn a 0 into a 1. > > We've discussed it briefly before. More detailed information would be > appreciated. Thanks! > Masked ROMs don't really have a 'fuse' to regrow. If Masked ROM parts start degrading, just about any other silicon is going to start having the same problems. I'd like a reference to good information on this topic, as well. We should all be backing up our EPROMs. An interesting unrelated side topic is the phenomenon of the Light Emitting EPROM. Has anybody else ever wired one of these into a circuit? (you do it by plugging the EPROM into the socket backwards) > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Apr 5 16:23:12 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: 8-level punched tape on eBay Message-ID: <200404052123.OAA25255@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Paul Koning" > >>>>>> "John" == John Lawson writes: > > John> Maybe this guy is unwittingly cutting up and selling the last > John> remaining bootloader tape for...... ? machine ? > > John> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3714975807&category=12 > > John> Also could be machine tool NC tape - dunno - > >NC looks like a good theory -- the patterns seem suspiciously regular >for a program tape. > >The comment made earlier about P.T.Barnum's rule seems to apply >here... > > paul > > Hi I think I can just read it. It says something like " you are a sucker " over and over. ( just kidding but that what you'd be to buy it for more than $.50 ). Dwight From sastevens at earthlink.net Mon Apr 5 16:26:46 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Atari ST In-Reply-To: <20040405160825.6e3343c4.sastevens@earthlink.net> References: <20040404180321.17765.qmail@web13425.mail.yahoo.com> <407044F0.2070009@jetnet.ab.ca> <31198a9a4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <1081113974.24415.1.camel@netfinity> <20040405160825.6e3343c4.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20040405162646.61dd589e.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:08:25 -0500 Scott Stevens wrote: Correction. That should read: > back when all some of us could afford was a single 386 box to run > a Freenix on, so we had to use 286 and earlier boxes to 'fool around' > with networking at home. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Apr 5 16:57:25 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Bit Rot? Message-ID: <200404052157.OAA25277@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Scott Stevens" > >On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 10:35:44 -0700 (PDT) >Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >> >> Is there a good description of the various forms of ROM/PROM/EPROM bit rot >> phenomena on the web somewhere? Or could someone provide a good >> description? >> >> I know in the case of EPROMs the charge will eventually "leak". And with >> masked ROMs and PROMs the "fuse" can actual re-grow and turn a 0 into a 1. >> >> We've discussed it briefly before. More detailed information would be >> appreciated. Thanks! >> > >Masked ROMs don't really have a 'fuse' to regrow. If Masked ROM parts start degrading, just about any other silicon is going to start having the same problems. Hi No, mask ROM are not the same as PROMs that have fuses. These only fail when a transistor fails. There are no fuses blown in a mask ROM. There are wires that are there or not there from the begining. Nothing to regrow. > >I'd like a reference to good information on this topic, as well. We should all be backing up our EPROMs. The EPROMs on my SIM-4 still have there original data ( 1702A's ). I've made both EPROM and on disk copies. These are about '73 someplace. Not to bad for part that were only suppose to hold for 10 years. > >An interesting unrelated side topic is the phenomenon of the Light Emitting EPROM. Has anybody else ever wired one of these into a circuit? (you do it by plugging the EPROM into the socket backwards) They only emit light for a few minutes this way. But yes, there is a nice orange low. All ROMs can suffer from the effects of EM ( electro-migration ). They can suffer from impurity ions as well. Copper and sodium are real bad. Dwight From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Apr 5 17:00:05 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Enigma In-Reply-To: Jules Richardson "Re: Enigma" (Apr 5, 20:06) References: <200404051828.LAA25105@clulw009.amd.com> <1081192011.518.36.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <10404052300.ZM24726@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 5, 20:06, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Mon, 2004-04-05 at 19:28, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > > > They showed a solid state enigma machine that you can get. > > You can get these ones from Bletchley: > > https://secure.bletchleypark.org.uk/newshop/shopcategory.asp?productcode=ENIG050 > > (sorry for any line wrapping) It didn't linewrap, but it doesn't display in Netscape. I'd have been interested in this, but all I can see is a pretty blue background :-( The page isn't valid HTML, and has a few mistakes in it. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From allain at panix.com Mon Apr 5 18:28:00 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Enigma References: <200404051828.LAA25105@clulw009.amd.com> <1081192011.518.36.camel@weka.localdomain> <10404052300.ZM24726@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <05fb01c41b65$a320d020$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >> https://secure.bletchleypark.org.uk/newshop/shopcategory.asp?productcode=ENI G050 > it doesn't display in Netscape. > ...all I can see is a pretty blue background :-( Try a "select all" to hilight the text. Anyway, here's that pages link to further details: http://www.xat.nl/enigma-e , with it's more traditional coding. John A. From jba at sdf.lonestar.org Mon Apr 5 19:57:06 2004 From: jba at sdf.lonestar.org (Jeffrey Armstrong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: DEC Mini Exchange info? Message-ID: Does anyone out there have any information on the escape sequences needed to control a DEC Mini Exchange? These are the serial switches that were often used for printer and modem sharing on Rainbow 100 systems. I'm trying to write a program to access it, but no luck. Any help is appreciated! -Jeff Armstrong jba@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Apr 5 21:08:01 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: HP21X tape drive References: Message-ID: <40721101.3050004@tiac.net> Assuming you have the in-box maximum of 16K words, there are not a lot of software options available. HPBASIC is one option, if you have a 'microcircuit interface' board, I can send you a few programmed chips that will get you booting with very little work. Another option is OCTAPUS-C, a tiny, very limited in-line assembler and disassembler / monitor program. There are also stripped-down builds of HP-IPL/OS that will run on a 2116. Gary Sloane wrote: > Still have any HP21xx stuff for sale? I have a 2116B (working) and > could use periperals, options, software, manuals, spares, etc... > > Gary > > _________________________________________________________________ > Free up your inbox with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! Multiple plans > available. > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=hotmail/es2&ST=1/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ > > > From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Apr 5 21:14:52 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Search engines for networks? In-Reply-To: <001101c41989$0a1e5330$6401a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> References: <001101c41989$0a1e5330$6401a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040405211145.0459dbc8@pc> At 09:36 AM 4/3/2004, you wrote: > I'm looking for a search engine I can use on my network in the house. I >remember a long time ago (1998 or so), before the "browser wars" AltaVista >distributed a "personal AltaVista" that you could use on a personal computer >to allow for indexing/searching a local machine/network. This was at the >time that AltaVista was owned by Digital. I found a lot of announcements of >the product but no actual download points. >Does anyone have this or something else I can use internally? The server >runs Windows NT Server and I can install IIS. I've wished for it - or something comparable - many times since then, too. I was just talking about it with a friend the other day. One nice feature was that it could look inside popular file formats, like Word docs and Zip files. I don't remember if it was available as a single download. If I knew a filename of the installer, I might have a ghost of a chance to find it in a backup. I don't think it required NT Server. I remember running it on NT 4.0. If you find it, I'd love to get a copy, too. - John From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Apr 5 21:40:13 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Search engines for networks? In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040405211145.0459dbc8@pc> References: <001101c41989$0a1e5330$6401a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> <6.0.3.0.2.20040405211145.0459dbc8@pc> Message-ID: <4072188D.4070201@jcwren.com> Win2K (and I think NT4) has a document indexing service. For Win2K, goto Start->Settings->Control Panel->Administrative Tools->Computer Management->Services And Applications->Indexing Service (I think there's a quicker way to get there, but I use that so infrequently I don't remember). You can configure what documents are indexed. You can index PDFs with a free plugin from Adobe. I think most MS formats are supported by default. You can specify how often documents are indexed, what directories or drives, etc. The problem is the query tool isn't as readily available or as usable as I would like. But it does work, and it's a little known service. --jc John Foust wrote: >At 09:36 AM 4/3/2004, you wrote: > > >> I'm looking for a search engine I can use on my network in the house. I >>remember a long time ago (1998 or so), before the "browser wars" AltaVista >>distributed a "personal AltaVista" that you could use on a personal computer >>to allow for indexing/searching a local machine/network. This was at the >>time that AltaVista was owned by Digital. I found a lot of announcements of >>the product but no actual download points. >>Does anyone have this or something else I can use internally? The server >>runs Windows NT Server and I can install IIS. >> >> > >I've wished for it - or something comparable - many times since >then, too. I was just talking about it with a friend the other >day. One nice feature was that it could look inside popular >file formats, like Word docs and Zip files. > >I don't remember if it was available as a single download. >If I knew a filename of the installer, I might have a ghost of >a chance to find it in a backup. I don't think it required >NT Server. I remember running it on NT 4.0. If you find it, >I'd love to get a copy, too. > >- John > > > From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Apr 5 21:45:33 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: FW: We have old Univac Manuals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > We would certainly be interested in any of these manuals, but especially > those for the Solid State 80, as we have one. 9300 manuals? William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Apr 5 21:59:31 2004 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: HP 64000 in Kansas City Message-ID: One of the precision instrument companies in Kansas City just shipped in some old equipment to the computer surplus. There was a HP64000 with a HP64203A for 8085 module 2 HP 9133 units a Hazeltine 1420 a Tek 4025 Any interest, my garage is full Thanks Mike From dan at ekoan.com Mon Apr 5 23:35:14 2004 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Documents and an IMSAI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040406000543.0658c1d0@enigma> I picked up some unusual (to me) documentation tonight, along with an IMSAI and a Hayes S-100 modem that you can see at www.decodesystems.com/imsai.html The documentation includes: An NEC manual (marked confidential) that is titled "D22X7 Series 8-Inch Winchester Disk Drive Manual." It has 8 chapters and two appendices, including schematics. Solos/Cuter User's Manual from Processor Technology dated 1977. According to this manual, "SOLOS is a program designed to be a personality module in a Sol. CUTER is a program designed to provide much of the power of SOLOS for the non-Sol user." Thinker Toys Draft User's Manual for "Disk Jockey 2D" Microsoft BASIC-80 version 5.0 Reference Manual, including a letter from Thinker Toys explaining why they have to include a Non-Disclosure Agreement -- and the actual Non-Disclosure Agreement for Microsoft Disk BASIC or FORTRAN. Microsoft CP/M and ISIS-II BASIC Reference Book, copyright 1977 when Bill et al were in Albuquerque. Also some floppies: Two 8-inch disks, both from Morrow Designs Thinker Toys and both copyrighted 1979. One is labeled "SOL 2D - Diskate Version 2.0 - Mod B" and the other "Microsoft BASIC Version 5.0.3" A sealed 5.25" floppy labeled "Milestone (c) 1981, Apple CP/M, Demo, Revision 1.06" More to come, including a Dynabyte machine that is still in the car. Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Apr 6 00:18:33 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Documents and an IMSAI In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040406000543.0658c1d0@enigma> Message-ID: > an IMSAI and a Hayes S-100 modem that you can see at Any idea where I could get my hands on one of those Microcoupler devices? I've got two of those boards, one is a Smartmodem 100 and the other is a "DC Hayes 100" (if my memory isn't faulty). I'm also interested in obtaining a generic S-100 system from someone local to Tacoma, WA. tnx. g. From bemrich at hamilton-exhibits.com Mon Apr 5 14:54:05 2004 From: bemrich at hamilton-exhibits.com (Brian Emrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: IMSAI / SOL-20 / Northstar + much other for sale Message-ID: <329E2C7C10749E4D9D335FEFD87B42AE4EFBEE@mail.hamilton-exhibits.com> How much for the Altair 8800? Brian Emrich (317) 797-4546 emrichbke@aol.com Thank you. From jwest at kwcorp.com Mon Apr 5 15:38:16 2004 From: jwest at kwcorp.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: truckload of DEC -11 parts Message-ID: <000c01c41b4d$ec89c4a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4122358161&category=1247 Someone in the northeast should go look at this and see what's there! Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From f.ogg at hccnet.nl Mon Apr 5 15:51:31 2004 From: f.ogg at hccnet.nl (Frits Ogg hccnet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Boot disk for Philips P2000C? Message-ID: <00fe01c41b4f$c6cbd530$0900000a@fritsnieuwpc> Dear Dan, Sure there are CP/M boot diskettes. Just send us your address, and we will calculate the posting. Frits Ogg chairman P2000gg (P2000 usersgroup in the Netherlands) Dan Veeneman dan at ekoan.com Sun Mar 21 17:40:02 CST 2004 a.. Previous message: Electronic components sources b.. Next message: FW: [Fwd: Old Teletype Paper] c.. Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello, I recently acquired a Philips P2000C "portable" computer. It came with a couple of 5.25" application disks but is missing a C/PM boot disk. I checked the archives mentioned here recently but couldn't find one for this machine. Does anyone out there have a boot disk they could send me in Teledisk or similar format? Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Tue Apr 6 02:35:48 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Honeywell DPS-6 and other stuff References: Message-ID: <40725DD4.65C11EC4@msm.umr.edu> This is probably an Ultimate system. The B01730 number corresponds with a code that the Bull service people used to indicate that the user was a Bull customer and the Ultimate System number. It runs a oprocessor which runs the Ultimate version of Pick. I have a lot of documentation on the DPS 6 and could help anyone who wants to get this system up. Jim Stephens Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I've been contacted by a credit union in southern California that has a > Honeywell DPS-6 among some other stuff. > > The list includes: > > Honeywell DPS-6 > Spectralogic ST865 tape drive > Honeywell-Bull tape drive (in a large cabinet) > Something with model number B01730 (the only information I have on this) > The rest of the stuff is up for grabs. The company just wants it hauled > off and they need it gone within a month or so. > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Tue Apr 6 03:34:23 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Bit Rot? Message-ID: > An interesting unrelated side topic is the phenomenon of the > Light Emitting EPROM. Has anybody else ever wired one of these > into a circuit? I saw that done to the final remaining copy of a control system EPROM that we had here. Fixing it for long enough to read was something of an achievement. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From brad at heeltoe.com Tue Apr 6 05:41:19 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: truckload of DEC -11 parts In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 05 Apr 2004 15:38:16 CDT." <000c01c41b4d$ec89c4a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200404061041.i36AfJY31490@mwave.heeltoe.com> "Jay West" wrote: >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4122358161&category=1247 > >Someone in the northeast should go look at this and see what's there! I'll go down with a truck if the seller will say *anything* about the cpu's. So far no response. I may just take a chance. we'll see. -brad From tradde at excite.com Tue Apr 6 06:05:53 2004 From: tradde at excite.com (Tim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: truckoad of DEC-11 parts Message-ID: <20040406110553.0CAD93949@xprdmailfe9.nwk.excite.com> I sent the guy a message via eBay asking for more details. Nothing so far. Like Brad I may try to take a look if I can get his address and permission to stop by. How can he expect much interest if he does not at least give some details on what's there. Tim R _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From dmcq at fano.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 6 05:03:38 2004 From: dmcq at fano.demon.co.uk (David McQuillan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Identification of an old machine Message-ID: Just saw an old query using vivisimo in your group about the Wireless World computer. If you want to see if it was what you were talking about I've got a couple of pages scanned in: http://www.fano.demon.co.uk/history/WWcomp.html The basic model didn't have patch leads so it may not be that - but there were plans for programming it via an expansion patch panel. hope this helps David McQuillan -- David McQuillan From shirsch at adelphia.net Tue Apr 6 06:44:53 2004 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Enigma In-Reply-To: <4071A262.2FC8173A@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Apr 2004, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > In checking some other stuff, I just ran across a neat site dealing with > the ENIGMA CIPHER MACHINES among other antique cipher machines and > calculators. The main page site is W1TP TELEGRAPH AND SCIENTIFIC > INSTRUMENT MUSEUMS, and has some pretty interesting stuff on it! Yes, Tom exhibits at many of the New England flea markets and hamfests. The enigma machines are always an attention grabber! From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Apr 6 07:12:33 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: truckload of DEC -11 parts In-Reply-To: <000c01c41b4d$ec89c4a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <000c01c41b4d$ec89c4a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20040406121233.GB6788@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Apr 05, 2004 at 03:38:16PM -0500, Jay West wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4122358161&category=1247 > > Someone in the northeast should go look at this and see what's there! Wow! If I were in Ohio at the moment, _I'd_ drive to Philly to see what's there. -ethan (who has never picked up a "truck load" but did once fill a VW MicroBus with a PDP-11/34 and several cabinets of goodies from the University). -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 06-Apr-2004 12:11 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -65.5 F (-54.2 C) Windchill -105.5 F (-76.40 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9.30 kts Grid 053 Barometer 678.9 mb (10667. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Apr 6 07:19:31 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: DEC Mini Exchange info? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040406121931.GC6788@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Apr 06, 2004 at 12:57:06AM +0000, Jeffrey Armstrong wrote: > Does anyone out there have any information on the escape sequences needed > to control a DEC Mini Exchange? These are the serial switches that were > often used for printer and modem sharing on Rainbow 100 systems. I'm > trying to write a program to access it, but no luck. Any help is > appreciated! I have one of those at home, presuming we are talking about the same thing, a white box with four or five DB-25s and maybe a loopback connector attached via a springy lead. This cached version of Megan Gentry's webpage describes it as an 8-port switch... http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:LH20Kvh9OtMJ:world.std.com/~mbg/home_systems.html+DEC+MiniExchange&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 I do not know where my file describing the command set is (it might be on an Amiga back home), but Megan Gentry was the one who told me how it worked. My recollection is that it's pretty simple - single, or at most double control characters to tell it how to select the output port. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 06-Apr-2004 12:11 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -65.5 F (-54.2 C) Windchill -105.5 F (-76.40 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9.30 kts Grid 053 Barometer 678.9 mb (10667. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Apr 6 08:28:04 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Honeywell DPS-6 and other stuff References: <40725DD4.65C11EC4@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: <007101c41bda$fdba9320$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I'm a "pick-head" and that's why I'm eyeing that system :) Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 2:35 AM Subject: Re: Honeywell DPS-6 and other stuff > This is probably an Ultimate system. The B01730 number corresponds > with a code that the Bull service people used to indicate that the user > was a Bull customer and the Ultimate System number. > > It runs a oprocessor which runs the Ultimate version of Pick. > > I have a lot of documentation on the DPS 6 and could help anyone > who wants to get this system up. > > Jim Stephens > > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > I've been contacted by a credit union in southern California that has a > > Honeywell DPS-6 among some other stuff. > > > > The list includes: > > > > Honeywell DPS-6 > > Spectralogic ST865 tape drive > > Honeywell-Bull tape drive (in a large cabinet) > > Something with model number B01730 (the only information I have on this) > > The rest of the stuff is up for grabs. The company just wants it hauled > > off and they need it gone within a month or so. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Apr 6 09:48:09 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Honeywell DPS-6 and other stuff In-Reply-To: <40725DD4.65C11EC4@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Apr 2004, jim wrote: > This is probably an Ultimate system. The B01730 number corresponds > with a code that the Bull service people used to indicate that the user > was a Bull customer and the Ultimate System number. > > It runs a oprocessor which runs the Ultimate version of Pick. > > I have a lot of documentation on the DPS 6 and could help anyone > who wants to get this system up. Ok, great. So the DPS-6 and AlphaServer have been claimed. Now that we know what the B01730 is perhaps someone might want to claim it as well? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Apr 6 09:51:49 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:41 2005 Subject: Honeywell DPS-6 and other stuff In-Reply-To: <007101c41bda$fdba9320$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Apr 2004, Jay West wrote: > I'm a "pick-head" and that's why I'm eyeing that system :) I'll try to find out its dimensions so that you can determine if you want to ship it. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 6 12:01:47 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: Transera HTbasic Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040406130147.00865640@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found a copy of this the other day. It's a program that runs on a PC and acts like the BASIC used on the HP 9000 series 200/300 computers. I got the complete package including orignal disks, registartion, etc EXCEPT for the dongle :-( It won't run without the dongle. Does anyone know how to bypass the dongle check or does anyone have a working copy of HTBasic that they can send me? Joe From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Apr 6 14:01:59 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: Bit Rot? In-Reply-To: <200404052157.OAA25277@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <001201c41c09$a4370890$5b01a8c0@athlon> > All ROMs can suffer from the effects of EM ( electro-migration ). > They can suffer from impurity ions as well. Copper and > sodium are real bad. If you wait long enough, sold-state diffusion will get you anyway. Not a real issue with many old things (say, Trajan's Column or Cleopatra's needle) but when you are dealing with fine structures (on the order of micrometres even in the 1970s I would guess) I would guess a few hundred years is enough to introduce the occasional error. Best to back everything up right now (and refresh onto new media as required) :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From hansp at citem.org Tue Apr 6 14:16:27 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: USPTO computer patent index Message-ID: <4073020B.60002@citem.org> A new resource : http://www.citem.org/Patents/Computers The US Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) maintains a giant database of patents dating back to the early 1800's. Patents issued after 1975 are stored as full text and are searchable. All earlier patents are available only as TIFF images and can be recovered only by knowing the patent number or by an arduous search system based on an unobvious (hence patentable ?) classification system. The data in these early patents is of immense interest to anyone interested in early computer history and I took it upon myself to begin indexing the computer related patents. My index currently holds 880 listings and many names familiar to the computer history buff can be found; though many remain to be discovered. There is a mass of fascinating documents to browse through. I have seen patents running to almost 1000 pages (check out patent number 3400371 issued exactly 40 years ago today) The complete index is downloaded as a single HTML page and I use JavaScript to provide searching, sorting and statistical functions. For those who cannot, or do not want to, enable Javascript, I will be implementing those features as PHP code in the near future. I will also set up a discussion forum so that as you discover interesting bits you can transmit them on to others. Many patents relate directly to actual commercial machines (see the one listed above) but rarely name those machines. It will be useful to know the relationship between patents and actual systems. As always your comments, suggestions and help are welcome. Best regards, -- HansP From marvin at rain.org Tue Apr 6 14:24:58 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: USPTO computer patent index References: <4073020B.60002@citem.org> Message-ID: <4073040A.92EDEF39@rain.org> I just tried it with both Netscape and (ugh) Internet Explorer; neither one works. With MSIE, I get a javascript error on page. This sounds like a great resource, and I am looking forward to seeing it when it is fully functional! Hans B PUFAL wrote: > > A new resource : > > http://www.citem.org/Patents/Computers > > The US Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) maintains a giant database > of patents dating back to the early 1800's. Patents issued after 1975 > are stored as full text and are searchable. All earlier patents are > available only as TIFF images and can be recovered only by knowing > the patent number or by an arduous search system based on an unobvious > (hence patentable ?) classification system. > > The data in these early patents is of immense interest to anyone interested > in early computer history and I took it upon myself to begin indexing > the computer related patents. My index currently holds 880 listings and > many names familiar to the computer history buff can be found; though many > remain to be discovered. > > There is a mass of fascinating documents to browse through. I have seen > patents running to almost 1000 pages (check out patent number 3400371 > issued exactly 40 years ago today) > > The complete index is downloaded as a single HTML page and I use JavaScript > to provide searching, sorting and statistical functions. For those who > cannot, or do not want to, enable Javascript, I will be implementing those > features as PHP code in the near future. > > I will also set up a discussion forum so that as you discover interesting > bits you can transmit them on to others. Many patents relate directly to > actual commercial machines (see the one listed above) but rarely name those > machines. It will be useful to know the relationship between patents and > actual systems. > > As always your comments, suggestions and help are welcome. > > Best regards, > > -- HansP From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 6 14:46:19 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: USPTO computer patent index In-Reply-To: <4073020B.60002@citem.org> from "Hans B PUFAL" at Apr 6, 4 09:16:27 pm Message-ID: > The data in these early patents is of immense interest to anyone interested > in early computer history and I took it upon myself to begin indexing > the computer related patents. My index currently holds 880 listings and > many names familiar to the computer history buff can be found; though many > remain to be discovered. > > There is a mass of fascinating documents to browse through. I have seen > patents running to almost 1000 pages (check out patent number 3400371 > issued exactly 40 years ago today) Might I recomend patents 3859635, 3839630, and, I believe 4012725 (I know this one as the GB patent 1444141). These are the patents for the HP9810, 9820, and 9830 desktop calculators and contain more information that you'd find in most service manuals!. Admittedly production machines have minor differences from the ones described in the patents, but the schematics and ROM source (!) in the patents are a great help! -tony From hansp at citem.org Tue Apr 6 14:49:19 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: USPTO computer patent index In-Reply-To: <4073040A.92EDEF39@rain.org> References: <4073020B.60002@citem.org> <4073040A.92EDEF39@rain.org> Message-ID: <407309BF.3060100@citem.org> Marvin Johnston wrote: >I just tried it with both Netscape and (ugh) Internet Explorer; neither >one works. With MSIE, I get a javascript error on page. > > I developed the code on Mozilla 1.6 and now run 1.7. I fixed the problem with IE, I use version 6.0, bit it takes AGES to run the JavaScript. Looks like I will have to do the PHP coding sooner rather than later ;-) -- HansP From allain at panix.com Tue Apr 6 15:16:24 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: USPTO computer patent index References: <4073020B.60002@citem.org> Message-ID: <006401c41c14$0948b4e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > As always your comments, suggestions and help are welcome. Kinda funky in it's present state. takes just under two minutes to display (read: display, not download). On this computer that's an estimated 80 billion clock cycles, or perhaps 4 billion instructions. Amazing that it works. Yikes. Good luck on a rev.2 Thx for starting this. My suggestion: display the default sortation/selection as static html at the bottom, for something to look at while the CPU chugs. CGI or PHP would of course offload it all. John A. From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Apr 6 16:12:09 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: Search engines for networks? In-Reply-To: <4072188D.4070201@jcwren.com> References: <001101c41989$0a1e5330$6401a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> <6.0.3.0.2.20040405211145.0459dbc8@pc> <4072188D.4070201@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040406160508.03ef5550@pc> At 09:40 PM 4/5/2004, J.C. Wren wrote: > Win2K (and I think NT4) has a document indexing service. For Win2K, goto Start->Settings->Control Panel->Administrative Tools->Computer Management->Services And Applications->Indexing Service (I think there's a quicker way to get there, but I use that so infrequently I don't remember). > The problem is the query tool isn't as readily available or as usable as I would like. But it does work, and it's a little known service. I remember turning it off. On my Win2000 machine it's under My Computer / Manage / Services and Applications / Indexing Service / Query the Catalog. This brings up a form for entering search terms. A link "Tips for searching" brings up another sentence of help, and on that page, there's a button "Query Syntax" that's a NOP on my machine. http://lee.org/reading/computers/Search%20using%20Indexing%20Service.htm - John From dvcorbin at optonline.net Tue Apr 6 18:29:18 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: truckload of DEC -11 parts In-Reply-To: <200404061041.i36AfJY31490@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: Brad, thinking the same thing...Where are you (I am on Long Island) going to originate from...Possibly a joint trip? >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brad Parker >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 6:41 AM >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>> Subject: Re: truckload of DEC -11 parts >>> >>> >>> "Jay West" wrote: >>> >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=41223581 >>> 61&category= >>> >1247 >>> > >>> >Someone in the northeast should go look at this and see >>> what's there! >>> >>> I'll go down with a truck if the seller will say *anything* >>> about the cpu's. >>> >>> So far no response. >>> >>> I may just take a chance. we'll see. >>> >>> -brad From dvcorbin at optonline.net Tue Apr 6 18:32:23 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: USPTO computer patent index In-Reply-To: <407309BF.3060100@citem.org> Message-ID: Hans, If interested I can develop and host the web site (no charge). Contact me off-list if desired. David@dynamicconcepts.us >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Hans B PUFAL >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 3:49 PM >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>> Subject: Re: USPTO computer patent index >>> >>> Marvin Johnston wrote: >>> >>> >I just tried it with both Netscape and (ugh) Internet >>> Explorer; neither >>> >one works. With MSIE, I get a javascript error on page. >>> > >>> > >>> I developed the code on Mozilla 1.6 and now run 1.7. I >>> fixed the problem with IE, I use version 6.0, bit it takes >>> AGES to run the JavaScript. Looks like I will have to do >>> the PHP coding sooner rather than later ;-) >>> >>> -- HansP >>> From evan947 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 6 18:53:45 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: FREE: NetFRAME NS400 Message-ID: <20040406235345.73596.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, Doug Ricci, who works in IT at the Johns Hopkins Dept. of Radiology, is offering a NetFRAME NS400 (s/n D00453) for free. He says it supported more than 150 users on Novell NetWare from 1991-1998 and cost $80,000 when it was new! He added, "We can't sell it-not allowed to. I'd like to give it to a collector..." You can reach Doug at DWRICCI@jhmi.edu, please mention that you were referred by me. Thanks, Evan Koblentz From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue Apr 6 08:41:03 2004 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: Search engines for networks? Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA4642@MAIL10> JC- I quick perusal of Microsoft's Web site reveals that this service is installed as part of Internet Information Server and/or Index Server. It is very Web-oriented, meaning that an HTML "search" page would programmatically query the index and produce a result. Index Server (a separate product) has built-in querying. I don't know if the IIS Indexing service can index anything other than what's directly under wwwroot (the main Web site parent directory). I looked at the man pages for swish-e and it will index anything that is under single parent directory (which could be ".\users"). There doesn't appear to be any way to index two independent trees, though. Rich -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of J.C. Wren Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 10:40 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Search engines for networks? Win2K (and I think NT4) has a document indexing service. For Win2K, goto Start->Settings->Control Panel->Administrative Tools->Computer Management->Services And Applications->Indexing Service (I think there's a quicker way to get there, but I use that so infrequently I don't remember). You can configure what documents are indexed. You can index PDFs with a free plugin from Adobe. I think most MS formats are supported by default. You can specify how often documents are indexed, what directories or drives, etc. The problem is the query tool isn't as readily available or as usable as I would like. But it does work, and it's a little known service. --jc John Foust wrote: >At 09:36 AM 4/3/2004, you wrote: > > >> I'm looking for a search engine I can use on my network in the house. I >>remember a long time ago (1998 or so), before the "browser wars" AltaVista >>distributed a "personal AltaVista" that you could use on a personal computer >>to allow for indexing/searching a local machine/network. This was at the >>time that AltaVista was owned by Digital. I found a lot of announcements of >>the product but no actual download points. >>Does anyone have this or something else I can use internally? The server >>runs Windows NT Server and I can install IIS. >> >> > >I've wished for it - or something comparable - many times since >then, too. I was just talking about it with a friend the other >day. One nice feature was that it could look inside popular >file formats, like Word docs and Zip files. > >I don't remember if it was available as a single download. >If I knew a filename of the installer, I might have a ghost of >a chance to find it in a backup. I don't think it required >NT Server. I remember running it on NT 4.0. If you find it, >I'd love to get a copy, too. > >- John > > > From paulrsm at buckeye-express.com Tue Apr 6 10:45:45 2004 From: paulrsm at buckeye-express.com (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: HP LaserJet IIP parts Message-ID: <380-22004426154545430@buckeye-express.com> I am about to toss a couple of non-working HP LaserJet IIP printers. Does anyone need IIP parts like the paper tray, fusor, memory card, etc? -- Paul Monroe, Michigan USA From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Apr 6 17:22:35 2004 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: One last batch of DEC handbooks FS Message-ID: <20040406222235.GA17891@mrbill.net> One last batch of DEC handbooks available for sale, as I finally finished cleaning out the garage. These are what I had left (duplicates) and what I found after I shipped the last huge batch out. I'd prefer to sell them together if possible, to avoid the hassle of packing and shipping multiple boxes/packages/etc. Condition is decent for publications this old - no falling out pages, etc. Picture of the previous huge batch: http://www.mrbill.net/decbooks/ No reasonable offer refused, I can ship in the next two days. LSI PDP11/03 Processor Handbook (1975-76) PDP-11 Architecture Handbook (1983-84) PDP11 software handbook (1976) (x2) Laboratory Computer Handbook (PDP-12) (1971) Microcomputers and Memories (1982) Logic Handbook (1976-1976) Logic Handbook (1976-1977) Easiest way to reach me is email. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill@mrbill.net austin, texas From evan947 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 7 01:43:21 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: USPTO computer patent index In-Reply-To: <4073020B.60002@citem.org> Message-ID: <20040407064321.25347.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> I can personally vouch for the usefullness of the USPTO database (directly as www.uspto.gov) in conducting vintage computer research. In my ongoing research of the history of handhelds/PDAs, the government's database helped me sort out and link together all sorts of people/corporate connections which at first seemed disjointed. --- Hans B PUFAL wrote: > A new resource : > > http://www.citem.org/Patents/Computers > > The US Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) maintains > a giant database > of patents dating back to the early 1800's. Patents > issued after 1975 > are stored as full text and are searchable. All > earlier patents are > available only as TIFF images and can be recovered > only by knowing > the patent number or by an arduous search system > based on an unobvious > (hence patentable ?) classification system. > > The data in these early patents is of immense > interest to anyone interested > in early computer history and I took it upon myself > to begin indexing > the computer related patents. My index currently > holds 880 listings and > many names familiar to the computer history buff can > be found; though many > remain to be discovered. > > There is a mass of fascinating documents to browse > through. I have seen > patents running to almost 1000 pages (check out > patent number 3400371 > issued exactly 40 years ago today) > > The complete index is downloaded as a single HTML > page and I use JavaScript > to provide searching, sorting and statistical > functions. For those who > cannot, or do not want to, enable Javascript, I will > be implementing those > features as PHP code in the near future. > > I will also set up a discussion forum so that as you > discover interesting > bits you can transmit them on to others. Many > patents relate directly to > actual commercial machines (see the one listed > above) but rarely name those > machines. It will be useful to know the relationship > between patents and > actual systems. > > As always your comments, suggestions and help are > welcome. > > Best regards, > > -- HansP > > From evan947 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 7 01:43:21 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: USPTO computer patent index In-Reply-To: <4073020B.60002@citem.org> Message-ID: <20040407064321.25347.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> I can personally vouch for the usefullness of the USPTO database (directly as www.uspto.gov) in conducting vintage computer research. In my ongoing research of the history of handhelds/PDAs, the government's database helped me sort out and link together all sorts of people/corporate connections which at first seemed disjointed. --- Hans B PUFAL wrote: > A new resource : > > http://www.citem.org/Patents/Computers > > The US Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) maintains > a giant database > of patents dating back to the early 1800's. Patents > issued after 1975 > are stored as full text and are searchable. All > earlier patents are > available only as TIFF images and can be recovered > only by knowing > the patent number or by an arduous search system > based on an unobvious > (hence patentable ?) classification system. > > The data in these early patents is of immense > interest to anyone interested > in early computer history and I took it upon myself > to begin indexing > the computer related patents. My index currently > holds 880 listings and > many names familiar to the computer history buff can > be found; though many > remain to be discovered. > > There is a mass of fascinating documents to browse > through. I have seen > patents running to almost 1000 pages (check out > patent number 3400371 > issued exactly 40 years ago today) > > The complete index is downloaded as a single HTML > page and I use JavaScript > to provide searching, sorting and statistical > functions. For those who > cannot, or do not want to, enable Javascript, I will > be implementing those > features as PHP code in the near future. > > I will also set up a discussion forum so that as you > discover interesting > bits you can transmit them on to others. Many > patents relate directly to > actual commercial machines (see the one listed > above) but rarely name those > machines. It will be useful to know the relationship > between patents and > actual systems. > > As always your comments, suggestions and help are > welcome. > > Best regards, > > -- HansP > > From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Apr 7 02:16:59 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: HP LaserJet IIP parts In-Reply-To: <380-22004426154545430@buckeye-express.com> References: <380-22004426154545430@buckeye-express.com> Message-ID: <200404070721.DAA23160@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I am about to toss a couple of non-working HP LaserJet IIP printers. > Does anyone need IIP parts like the paper tray, fusor, memory card, > etc? I don't suppose you'd know whether any of those are compatible with a IIISi? That's what I've got...and I don't see anywhere obvious that describes compatability for such things. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From pat at computer-refuge.org Wed Apr 7 02:25:25 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: HP LaserJet IIP parts In-Reply-To: <200404070721.DAA23160@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <380-22004426154545430@buckeye-express.com> <200404070721.DAA23160@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <200404070225.25928.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Wednesday 07 April 2004 02:16, der Mouse wrote: > > I am about to toss a couple of non-working HP LaserJet IIP > > printers. Does anyone need IIP parts like the paper tray, fusor, > > memory card, etc? > > I don't suppose you'd know whether any of those are compatible with a > IIISi? That's what I've got...and I don't see anywhere obvious that > describes compatability for such things. Doubtful. The IIIsi and 4si share parts, but I'm pretty sure nothing else does with a IIIsi. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From pat at computer-refuge.org Wed Apr 7 02:31:15 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: FA: S-100 and other stuff on VCM Message-ID: <200404070231.15942.pat@computer-refuge.org> Just wanted to say I've posted a large pile of S-100 cards and some other things on VCM, as I need the money more than piles of useless-to-me hardware. :) Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Apr 7 07:48:51 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: HP LaserJet IIP parts In-Reply-To: <380-22004426154545430@buckeye-express.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040407074800.034c5e88@mail.ubanproductions.com> I'm interested in the spare parts. If you mail them to me, I would be happy to send you a check for the cost of shipping... Tom Uban 308 Jefferson Street Valparaiso, IN 46383 --tnx --tom At 11:45 AM 4/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I am about to toss a couple of non-working HP LaserJet IIP printers. >Does anyone need IIP parts like the paper tray, fusor, memory card, >etc? > >-- >Paul >Monroe, Michigan USA From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Wed Apr 7 06:01:26 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: FREE: NetFRAME NS400 In-Reply-To: <20040406235345.73596.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040406235345.73596.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040407065923.025bd7b8@24.161.37.215> Anyone have more info on the NetFRAMEs? They sound interesting, but most of what I get swamped with when I google is memory modules for it or press releases of some company making a clone or using one for their operations. BTW: isn't Johns Hopkins in NYC? Thanks. -John Boffemmyer IV At 07:53 PM 4/6/2004, you wrote: >Hi all, > >Doug Ricci, who works in IT at the Johns Hopkins Dept. >of Radiology, is offering a NetFRAME NS400 (s/n >D00453) for free. He says it supported more than 150 >users on Novell NetWare from 1991-1998 and cost >$80,000 when it was new! He added, "We can't sell >it-not allowed to. I'd like to give it to a >collector..." > >You can reach Doug at DWRICCI@jhmi.edu, please mention >that you were referred by me. > >Thanks, > > Evan Koblentz ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From tony.eros at machm.org Wed Apr 7 08:40:26 2004 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: FREE: NetFRAME NS400 In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040407065923.025bd7b8@24.161.37.215> Message-ID: <200404071342.JAA00845@smtp.9netave.com> Johns Hopkins is in Baltimore. -- Tony -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Boffemmyer IV Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 7:01 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only Subject: Re: FREE: NetFRAME NS400 Anyone have more info on the NetFRAMEs? They sound interesting, but most of what I get swamped with when I google is memory modules for it or press releases of some company making a clone or using one for their operations. BTW: isn't Johns Hopkins in NYC? Thanks. -John Boffemmyer IV At 07:53 PM 4/6/2004, you wrote: >Hi all, > >Doug Ricci, who works in IT at the Johns Hopkins Dept. >of Radiology, is offering a NetFRAME NS400 (s/n >D00453) for free. He says it supported more than 150 >users on Novell NetWare from 1991-1998 and cost >$80,000 when it was new! He added, "We can't sell >it-not allowed to. I'd like to give it to a >collector..." > >You can reach Doug at DWRICCI@jhmi.edu, please mention >that you were referred by me. > >Thanks, > > Evan Koblentz ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From dan at ekoan.com Wed Apr 7 08:46:01 2004 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: Boot disk for Philips P2000C? In-Reply-To: <00fe01c41b4f$c6cbd530$0900000a@fritsnieuwpc> References: <00fe01c41b4f$c6cbd530$0900000a@fritsnieuwpc> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040407094001.03e49060@enigma> Hello Frits, Thank you for the information about a P2000 users group in the Netherlands (my ancestor's native country!). I am interested in knowing the cost for sending P2000C boot disks. My address: Dan Veeneman P.O. Box 306 Brookeville, Maryland 20833-0306 USA Thank you! Regards, Dan At 04:51 PM 4/5/04, you wrote: >Dear Dan, > >Sure there are CP/M boot diskettes. Just send us your address, and we will >calculate the posting. > >Frits Ogg >chairman P2000gg (P2000 usersgroup in the Netherlands) > >Dan Veeneman dan at ekoan.com >Sun Mar 21 17:40:02 CST 2004 > > a.. Previous message: Electronic components sources > b.. Next message: FW: [Fwd: Old Teletype Paper] > c.. Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Hello, > >I recently acquired a Philips P2000C "portable" computer. >It came with a couple of 5.25" application disks but is >missing a C/PM boot disk. I checked the archives mentioned >here recently but couldn't find one for this machine. > >Does anyone out there have a boot disk they could send >me in Teledisk or similar format? > > >Cheers, > >Dan >www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From root at parse.com Wed Apr 7 09:07:38 2004 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today Message-ID: <200404071407.KAA07057@parse.com> Read an article in the local paper, Ottawa Citizen, about the IBM 360 turning 40 today. Interesting read, they claim that in today's dollars, the total effort cost something like $30 BILLION :-) The picture in the paper was interesting, because the front panel is the exact same one that I have in the basement... Cheers, -RK -- Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting, Books and Training at www.parse.com Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! From jdbryan at acm.org Wed Apr 7 09:34:05 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: Documents and an IMSAI In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040406000543.0658c1d0@enigma> References: Message-ID: <200404071434.i37EY6k3026490@mail.bcpl.net> On 6 Apr 2004 at 0:35, Dan Veeneman wrote: > The documentation includes: > > An NEC manual (marked confidential) that is titled "D22X7 Series 8-Inch > Winchester Disk Drive Manual." Ah, that rings a bell, although mine (NEC part number 806-220510-0 Rev. A) is marked "NEC proprietary." :-) I also have "D2200 Series 8-inch Winchester Disk Drive Theory of Operation" (NEC 819-000080-3001, March 1982) and "D22x7 Series 8-inch Winchester Disk Drive Maintenance Guide" (NEC 819-000080-8001, December 1983). Twenty years ago, I was working on a commercial development project that employed the NEC 2257 drive in an emulation of the HP 79xx-series MAC disk drives. The project never panned out, but I still have the drive and associated power supply here. (The project was always chasing disk drive technology -- the 8-inch NEC was much smaller and lighter than the 14-inch Kennedy 53160 we started with, but not as small as the 5-1/4-inch Maxtor EXT-4000 we ended up with.) -- Dave From pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org Wed Apr 7 10:31:23 2004 From: pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers References: <20040406235345.73596.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> <6.0.3.0.2.20040407065923.025bd7b8@24.161.37.215> Message-ID: <002201c41cb5$63494120$4601a8c0@ebrius> We have loads of old IBM servers on maintenance. These are Pentium PRO 200 and below based boat anchors. I just had to show two different IBM engineers how to replace a RAID disk in a hot swap caddy. If you don't connect the SCSI select cable, or in the second case, connect it backwards, it no workie. Both engineers, after very little troubleshooting, wanted to order more drives. What is this world comming to? Mark "I guess that every form of refuge has it's price." --The Eagles -------------------------------------------------------------- Website - http://www.retrobbs.org Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org BBS - http://bbs.retrobbs.org:8000 IRC - irc.retrobbs.org #main WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki From dan at ekoan.com Wed Apr 7 10:19:08 2004 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: FREE: NetFRAME NS400 In-Reply-To: <20040406235345.73596.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040406235345.73596.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040407111534.03e63060@enigma> Hi all, At 07:53 PM 4/6/04, you wrote: >Doug Ricci, who works in IT at the Johns Hopkins Dept. >of Radiology, is offering a NetFRAME NS400 I've spoken to Doug and I'll be picking up the machine, since I'm less than half an hour's drive away from him. I will need to locate some spare SCSI-2 drives, but everything else sounds to be in good shape to get it back up and running. Cheers, Dan From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Apr 7 10:31:04 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers References: <20040406235345.73596.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> <6.0.3.0.2.20040407065923.025bd7b8@24.161.37.215> <002201c41cb5$63494120$4601a8c0@ebrius> Message-ID: <000901c41cb5$5773c640$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Firestone" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 11:31 AM Subject: IBM Engineers > We have loads of old IBM servers on maintenance. These are Pentium PRO 200 > and below based boat anchors. > > I just had to show two different IBM engineers how to replace a RAID disk in > a hot swap caddy. If you don't connect the SCSI select cable, or in the > second case, connect it backwards, it no workie. > > Both engineers, after very little troubleshooting, wanted to order more > drives. > > What is this world comming to? > > Mark > > "I guess that every form of refuge has it's price." --The Eagles > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Website - http://www.retrobbs.org > Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org > BBS - http://bbs.retrobbs.org:8000 > IRC - irc.retrobbs.org #main > WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki > > Its the same for every tech profession, nobody wants to get their hands dirty learning the basics. Everything it taught by computer simulations where the user has no clue what is really going on at the basic level anymore. The techs you are referring to probably know everything about how a raid is supposed to work inside and out, they just don't know plugging a cable in backwards causes problems because they don't do it enough or usually get it correct on the first guess. I would imagine that its more cost effective to have inexpensive techs who can just swap parts when there is a problem then to have 100's of better paid knowledgeable engineers who actually know what they are doing go out and take time troubleshooting a problem. From patrick at VintageComputerMarketplace.com Wed Apr 7 11:37:34 2004 From: patrick at VintageComputerMarketplace.com (Patrick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: Altos ACS-8000 in Bristol, UK Message-ID: A VCM member has posted an Altos ACS-8000 as a "give-away" (free item) for pickup in Bristol, UK. http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=467 Patrick From aknight at mindspring.com Wed Apr 7 11:53:08 2004 From: aknight at mindspring.com (Alex Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today Message-ID: <32335830.1081356790282.JavaMail.root@wamui04.slb.atl.earthlink.net> There's also an article in today's Durham (NC) Herald-Sun about the IBM/360 and the role of Fred Brooks, Jr., who is also credited with founding the Computer Science dept. at UNC-Chapel Hill. The article is at: http://www.heraldsun.com/business/21-467479.html Enjoy! Alex K. The Calculator Museum Web Page http://www.calcmuseum.com -----Original Message----- From: Robert Krten Sent: Apr 7, 2004 10:07 AM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today Read an article in the local paper, Ottawa Citizen, about the IBM 360 turning 40 today. Interesting read, they claim that in today's dollars, the total effort cost something like $30 BILLION :-) The picture in the paper was interesting, because the front panel is the exact same one that I have in the basement... Cheers, -RK -- Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting, Books and Training at www.parse.com Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! From allain at panix.com Wed Apr 7 12:02:52 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today References: <32335830.1081356790282.JavaMail.root@wamui04.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <015c01c41cc2$2a665840$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > the role of Fred Brooks, Jr., who is also credited with > founding the Computer Science dept. at UNC-Chapel Hill. If I'm not mistaken Fred.B Created the first Computer Science degree program Anywhere. John A. From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Wed Apr 7 12:21:43 2004 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: Search engines for networks? In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA4642@MAIL10> References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA4642@MAIL10> Message-ID: <1081358503.2262.5.camel@azure> On Tue, 2004-04-06 at 08:41, Cini, Richard wrote: > JC- > > I quick perusal of Microsoft's Web site reveals that this service is > installed as part of Internet Information Server and/or Index Server. It is > very Web-oriented, meaning that an HTML "search" page would programmatically > query the index and produce a result. Index Server (a separate product) has > built-in querying. > > I don't know if the IIS Indexing service can index anything other > than what's directly under wwwroot (the main Web site parent directory). I > looked at the man pages for swish-e and it will index anything that is under > single parent directory (which could be ".\users"). There doesn't appear to > be any way to index two independent trees, though. You can create multiple indexes of different directory trees and then you can combine them into one index. I've never done this, but the documentation says it can be done with some caveats. It can also do http indexing wich I use to generate indexes for various intranet sites around the company, http indexing is not as fast as file indexing, but more flexable. I do wish that swish-e supported incremental indexing and you could have it only re-index certain documents. Possibly someday. Paul From lists at microvax.org Wed Apr 7 13:05:06 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: Search engines for networks? In-Reply-To: <1081358503.2262.5.camel@azure> References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA4642@MAIL10> <1081358503.2262.5.camel@azure> Message-ID: <200404071905.06592.lists@microvax.org> On Wednesday 07 April 2004 18:21, Paul Berger wrote: > On Tue, 2004-04-06 at 08:41, Cini, Richard wrote: I'm quite surprised no-one's suggested Google's Search Appliance yet. Google's indexing technology - in a rackmount box, for your intranet. http://www.google.com/appliance/ alex/melt From TRASIOL at cs.com Wed Apr 7 14:07:27 2004 From: TRASIOL at cs.com (TRASIOL@cs.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today Message-ID: <1ec.1d3b7ff1.2da5ab6f@cs.com> That's a big "SO WHAT" if I ever heard one!! From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Apr 7 14:21:10 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today References: <32335830.1081356790282.JavaMail.root@wamui04.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <16500.21670.402364.932315@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >> Read an article in the local paper, Ottawa Citizen, about the IBM >> 360 turning 40 today. Interesting read, they claim that in >> today's dollars, the total effort cost something like $30 BILLION >> :-) That reminds me of a interesting quote from Thomas Watson: Last week Control Data ... announced the 6600 system. I understand that in the laboratory developing the system there are only 34 people including the janitor. Of these, 14 are engineers and 4 are programmers ... Contrasting this modest effort with our vast development activities, I fail to understand why we have lost our industry leadership position by letting someone else offer the world's most powerful computer. paul From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Apr 7 14:21:49 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: Search engines for networks? In-Reply-To: <200404071905.06592.lists@microvax.org> References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA4642@MAIL10> <1081358503.2262.5.camel@azure> <200404071905.06592.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: >I'm quite surprised no-one's suggested Google's Search Appliance yet. >Google's indexing technology - in a rackmount box, for your intranet. > >http://www.google.com/appliance/ > >alex/melt Somehow that doesn't look like a very affordable solution for a home network. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From lists at microvax.org Wed Apr 7 14:44:38 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: Search engines for networks? In-Reply-To: References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA4642@MAIL10> <200404071905.06592.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <200404072044.38191.lists@microvax.org> On Wednesday 07 April 2004 20:21, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >I'm quite surprised no-one's suggested Google's Search Appliance yet. > >Google's indexing technology - in a rackmount box, for your intranet. > > > >http://www.google.com/appliance/ > > > >alex/melt > > Somehow that doesn't look like a very affordable solution for a home > network. I know, but it's still cool tech :) alex/melt From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Apr 7 14:51:19 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: <1ec.1d3b7ff1.2da5ab6f@cs.com> Message-ID: > That's a big "SO WHAT" if I ever heard one!! Yes, the S/360 was insignificant. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jim at smithy.com Wed Apr 7 15:08:17 2004 From: jim at smithy.com (Jim Donoghue) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: Z80 disassembler for Linux Message-ID: <1081368496.3011.16.camel@localhost> I'm trying to find a Z80 disassembler for Linux. There are a bunch of DOS ones out there, doesn't do me any good. A long time ago I had downloaded one that was source and compiled it, but I can't remember what it was. Anybody know of one? Jim From tponsford at theriver.com Wed Apr 7 15:27:36 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: Another day at the Auction: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. In-Reply-To: <404E7CE0.5080706@theriver.com> References: <404E7CE0.5080706@theriver.com> Message-ID: <40746438.7040100@theriver.com> Well I had another good day at the auction. For $7.50 I got two pallets o' stuff, a pretty good haul. Even had some stuff given to me by the pee-cee crowd. The Good! A VT220 in REALLY good shape, no discoloration, no cracks or scratches and No burn-in. Even the "digital" label on the front is not even faded!!. This is the best VT220 I've ever seen. A SUN GDM-5010PT. Fully operational 20 inch, switchable VGA/13W3 monitor in great shape. (He-He) A external DDS half-height tape drive. Type unknown till I hook it up. Another external "mystery" tape drive, looks like a QIC, but won't know till I hook it up. A older external scsi CD burner, probably a 2x speed, needs a caddy. About 4-5 1/2 height external scsi cases with centronic connectors. Unknown hard drives. A box o' scsi HDD's, mostly 1-2 GB, condition unknown. A couple of printers 2-3 HP 5L and 6L's a epsom and 2 HP 890's. All seen to be complete but they may/may not work. But Hey for $7.50!! AND A Vaxstation 4000 m90 in REALLY good conditiom, no disk, but has all the sleds, and 64MB of memory, and a large video card (spLGC ??) (WOOHOO) The Bad! A bunch of dead monitors I had to haul away as they were part of the pallete that had the SUN GDM, an a bunch of good 13/14"VGA monitors I'll try to give away. A bunch of truly useless and broken stuff. The UGLY!! Another Dec 3000 m400. I already have about 4-5 of these, but people keep giving them to me. They are TANKS, the heavist "desktop" alpha I've ever seen. Full of ram, two "whiney" RZ26 and a CDROM, I took it only because the guy who had it would toss it, if I didn't take it. The I/O on these things is fantastic for its age though. Two weeks until the next one... gotta clear out more space :-) Cheers Tom From pat at computer-refuge.org Wed Apr 7 15:33:45 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200404071533.45082.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Wednesday 07 April 2004 14:51, William Donzelli wrote: > > That's a big "SO WHAT" if I ever heard one!! > > Yes, the S/360 was insignificant. Hah. At least I know (hope?) you're kidding! Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From cb at mythtech.net Wed Apr 7 15:36:00 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: OT: mail server Message-ID: This is actually off topic, but I can bring it on topic if I do this right (see further on). My mail server's hard drive has developed bad blocks. I could fix it, or I could take this as the sign that I need to get off my butt and move to a more advanced product. I'm currently running SIMS on an old Mac (eh eh, on topic!). But it lacks a key feature that I want... content filtering so I can block certain kinds of email. What do others recommend as a decent mail server that can handle content filtering, multiple domains, POP access, and is free or darn near it. And for the on topic nudge, I would like to be able to run it either on an old Mac (probably not possible), or on mac68k NetBSD (so I can still use my old Macs). Although I am not hard core on platform or OS, that's just a "I'd like" option. A web mail component would also be a nice thing if available. I'm looking into Postfix or qmail, but I've only just started the research, so I figured I'd see what others are using or recommend. -chris From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Apr 7 15:37:40 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today References: <200404071533.45082.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <01c901c41ce0$2c8b5f80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > > Yes, the S/360 was insignificant. You're right. Absolutely. So if anyone has one I'll "dispose" of it for you. No problem. Public Service & all. Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Apr 7 15:58:51 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: <01c901c41ce0$2c8b5f80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <200404071533.45082.pat@computer-refuge.org> <01c901c41ce0$2c8b5f80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Apr 2004, Jay West wrote: > > > Yes, the S/360 was insignificant. > You're right. Absolutely. So if anyone has one I'll "dispose" of it for you. > No problem. Public Service & all. I had 5 of the damn things in a warehouse - but then I realized that they were just "so what" computers - so I had 'em hauled off for aluminum scrap. The trucks just left. That's the value of this List - think of all the storage space I just freed up for keeping devices that actually 'mean something'..... Cheers John From hansp at citem.org Wed Apr 7 15:58:03 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: Z80 disassembler for Linux In-Reply-To: <1081368496.3011.16.camel@localhost> References: <1081368496.3011.16.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <40746B5B.8050001@citem.org> Jim Donoghue wrote: >I'm trying to find a Z80 disassembler for Linux. > > A quick search on Freshmeat turned up this : http://www.uni-mainz.de/~bauec002/CXMain.html -- HansP From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Apr 7 15:04:20 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today References: <200404071533.45082.pat@computer-refuge.org> <01c901c41ce0$2c8b5f80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <40745EC4.4050205@jetnet.ab.ca> Jay West wrote: > You're right. Absolutely. So if anyone has one I'll "dispose" of it for you. > No problem. Public Service & all. Can you afford the electric bill too? :) BTW how old does that make IBM 360 programmers today? Ben. From sastevens at earthlink.net Wed Apr 7 16:15:40 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:42 2005 Subject: Z80 disassembler for Linux In-Reply-To: <1081368496.3011.16.camel@localhost> References: <1081368496.3011.16.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20040407161540.4595aabd.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:08:17 -0400 Jim Donoghue wrote: > I'm trying to find a Z80 disassembler for Linux. There are a bunch of > DOS ones out there, doesn't do me any good. A long time ago I had > downloaded one that was source and compiled it, but I can't remember > what it was. Anybody know of one? > > Jim Anything as simple as a Z80 disassembler is a stdin/stdout app anyway. You should find a DOS emulator for Linux and use that to run a DOS disassembler. You can even run a free/alternative DOS if you don't want any Microsoft products on your drive. There's no reason to invent the wheel, and I suspect most people would just run something old under emulation, which is a fine tradition going way back. A universal disassembler that is 'Open Source' would be a cool thing to have, though. I at one point was even running my Needham EPROM programmer (the cheap simple one that is an ISA card and driven by a DOS program) under emulation on Linux. Just had to 'punch a few holes' with the Dosemu configuration for IO ports that DOS then had permission to read/write directly through. That said, you should look at tools that the people emulating and/or writing games and code for the Gameboy are using, and I think one of the HP Calculators, as I understand those devices have a Z80-like processor in them. That's likely to be the place where 'the newer generation' are messing around with Z80 code, so it's where you'll find Linux stuff, if anywhere. > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Apr 7 16:20:39 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today References: <200404071533.45082.pat@computer-refuge.org><01c901c41ce0$2c8b5f80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <40745EC4.4050205@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <00fb01c41ce6$31433380$48406b43@66067007> It makes us older I started my programming career on a model 360/25 back in 1969. ----- Original Message ----- From: "ben franchuk" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 3:04 PM Subject: Re: IBM 360 turns 40 today > Jay West wrote: > > > You're right. Absolutely. So if anyone has one I'll "dispose" of it for you. > > No problem. Public Service & all. > > > Can you afford the electric bill too? :) > BTW how old does that make IBM 360 programmers today? > Ben. > > > From sastevens at earthlink.net Wed Apr 7 16:24:32 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: Z80 disassembler for Linux In-Reply-To: <20040407161540.4595aabd.sastevens@earthlink.net> References: <1081368496.3011.16.camel@localhost> <20040407161540.4595aabd.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20040407162432.0f1c1e19.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:15:40 -0500 Scott Stevens wrote: > > That said, you should look at tools that the people emulating and/or > writing games and code for the Gameboy are using, and I think one of > the HP Calculators, as I understand those devices have a Z80-like processor > in them. Correction, I meant one of the TI calculators. The HP calculators are, of course, completely different (and better). From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Wed Apr 7 16:28:37 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: Honeywell DPS-6 and other stuff References: Message-ID: <40747285.A9E0302C@msm.umr.edu> the "b#####" may be a part of the DPS 6 ultimate system. That format is suspiciously near the Bull Service number.. Please make sure that this is not on something like the disk drives cabinets for the honeywell. Also, since I'm in Southern California, I'd be glad to either go or send a colleague up there to inspect the pile to make sure it is grouped properly and carefully disassembled. The Ultimate systems had pretty good cabling that might be taken apart by amateurs or the uninitiated in curating old iron, but there may be parts misplaced and packing considerations, especially to getting the heads properly secured if indeed the "Bxxxxx" parts are drives. They may be any of: 80mb, 300mb top load removeable, 160, 300 mb fixed, either SMD or ESMD drives. Jim Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 6 Apr 2004, Jay West wrote: > > > I'm a "pick-head" and that's why I'm eyeing that system :) > > I'll try to find out its dimensions so that you can determine if you want > to ship it. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Wed Apr 7 16:29:51 2004 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: mail server In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200404071726140.SM02976@bobdev> > I'm looking into Postfix or qmail, but I've only just started the research, so I figured I'd see what others are using or recommend. Postfix can do content filtering. You can accomplish quite a lot with HEADER_CHECKS and BODY_CHECKS, which check the incoming messages for certain patterns, and REJECT them immediately. You can also use various "blacklists" to weed out a lot of junk. If that isn't good enough, you can feed messages to a content filter to further check them. With the current version of postfix (2.0-19) once you send a message to an external content filter, you're no longer able to REJECT it, but the next release (2.1) of postfix will allow this. As for content filters, I use "amavisd" which is a message "unpacker" (unpacks attachments from the message) and then sends all the parts to various checkers, such as SpamAssassin, and a variety of virus checkers (if you install them). My setup with postfix, amavisd-new, and spamassassin works great. I run it under Linux Fedora Core 1. I'm not sure if you can get it to work under NetBSD or not. Hope this helps. If you want any specific information, such as config files, etc. feel free to contact me off-list. - Bob From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 7 16:42:27 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: Honeywell DPS-6 and other stuff In-Reply-To: <40747285.A9E0302C@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Apr 2004, jim wrote: > the "b#####" may be a part of the DPS 6 ultimate system. That format > is suspiciously near the Bull Service number.. Please make sure that this > is not on something like the disk drives cabinets for the honeywell. > > Also, since I'm in Southern California, I'd be glad to either go or > send a colleague up there to inspect the pile to make sure it is > grouped properly and carefully disassembled. > > The Ultimate systems had pretty good cabling that might be taken > apart by amateurs or the uninitiated in curating old iron, but there may > be parts misplaced and packing considerations, especially to getting > the heads properly secured if indeed the "Bxxxxx" parts are drives. > > They may be any of: 80mb, 300mb top load removeable, 160, 300 > mb fixed, either SMD or ESMD drives. Hey Jim. Thanks for making yourself available. I'm sure you'll be a great help to the folks who are wanting to claim this stuff. I'm still waiting for some digital photos and will report back once I get them so we can figure out the next move. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Wed Apr 7 16:45:30 2004 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: <200404071407.KAA07057@parse.com> References: <200404071407.KAA07057@parse.com> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040407174313.02099d10@pop-server> At 10:07 AM 4/7/2004, you wrote: >Read an article in the local paper, Ottawa Citizen, about the >IBM 360 turning 40 today. I remember it well. Went to work in Poughkeepsie (operations then industrial engineering) in 1964. We were running 360 emulation on an IBM 7030 computer (Stretch) >Interesting read, they claim that >in today's dollars, the total effort cost something like >$30 BILLION :-) They sure weren't paying us much at that time. ================================= Gene Ehrich gehrich@tampabay.rr.com From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Wed Apr 7 16:47:03 2004 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: <16500.21670.402364.932315@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <32335830.1081356790282.JavaMail.root@wamui04.slb.atl.earthlink.net> <16500.21670.402364.932315@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040407174626.0209e380@pop-server> At 03:21 PM 4/7/2004, you wrote: >That reminds me of a interesting quote from Thomas Watson: It all turned around with TJ junior who is the one that made IBM fly in the computer world > Last week Control Data ... announced the 6600 system. I understand > that in the laboratory developing the system there are only 34 > people including the janitor. Of these, 14 are engineers and 4 are > programmers ... Contrasting this modest effort with our vast > development activities, I fail to understand why we have lost our > industry leadership position by letting someone else offer the > world's most powerful computer. ================================= Gene Ehrich gehrich@tampabay.rr.com From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Wed Apr 7 16:48:19 2004 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: References: <1ec.1d3b7ff1.2da5ab6f@cs.com> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040407174718.0208a6c0@pop-server> At 03:51 PM 4/7/2004, you wrote: > > That's a big "SO WHAT" if I ever heard one!! > >Yes, the S/360 was insignificant. It was extremely significant in it's day and quite successful also. Customers used to buy and sell delivery dates for a lot of money just to get an earlier delivery. ================================= Gene Ehrich gehrich@tampabay.rr.com From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Wed Apr 7 16:49:35 2004 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: <40745EC4.4050205@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <200404071533.45082.pat@computer-refuge.org> <01c901c41ce0$2c8b5f80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <40745EC4.4050205@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040407174901.01f5d7f0@pop-server> > Can you afford the electric bill too? :) >BTW how old does that make IBM 360 programmers today? Most of us are in our 60's or even a little older From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Wed Apr 7 16:50:13 2004 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: <00fb01c41ce6$31433380$48406b43@66067007> References: <200404071533.45082.pat@computer-refuge.org> <01c901c41ce0$2c8b5f80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <40745EC4.4050205@jetnet.ab.ca> <00fb01c41ce6$31433380$48406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040407175002.02021e58@pop-server> At 05:20 PM 4/7/2004, you wrote: >It makes us older I started my programming career on a model 360/25 back in >1969. 1401 in 64 ================================= Gene Ehrich gehrich@tampabay.rr.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Apr 7 17:03:36 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: Honeywell DPS-6 and other stuff In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Apr 07, 2004 02:42:27 PM Message-ID: <200404072203.i37M3a9v024478@onyx.spiritone.com> On a GCOS sort of note, I was cruising http://bitsavers.org last night and noticed that Al has gotten a fair amount of Honeywell documentation up. Though almost none of it is GCOS, there is a surprising amount of Multics documentation. Zane From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 7 17:33:15 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: <000901c41cb5$5773c640$0500fea9@game> from "Teo Zenios" at Apr 7, 4 11:31:04 am Message-ID: > Its the same for every tech profession, nobody wants to get their hands s/nobody/nobody except ARD/ :-) > dirty learning the basics. Everything it taught by computer simulations > where the user has no clue what is really going on at the basic level I remember a quote attributed to I.K. Brunell : 'Any third-rate engineer can make a complicated device more complicated. It takes a genius to go back to first principles'. I suspect, alas, there are too many third-rate engineers around now :-) I sometimes wonder if all the people who actually understand how a computer works at the bit level -- who can actually think in terms of AND gates, OR gates and D-types, are on this list :-)_ -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 7 17:41:56 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: Z80 disassembler for Linux In-Reply-To: <20040407161540.4595aabd.sastevens@earthlink.net> from "Scott Stevens" at Apr 7, 4 04:15:40 pm Message-ID: > > On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:08:17 -0400 > Jim Donoghue wrote: > > > I'm trying to find a Z80 disassembler for Linux. There are a bunch of > > DOS ones out there, doesn't do me any good. A long time ago I had > > downloaded one that was source and compiled it, but I can't remember > > what it was. Anybody know of one? > > > > Jim > > Anything as simple as a Z80 disassembler is a stdin/stdout app > anyway. You should find a DOS emulator for Linux and use that to run a > DOS disassembler. You can even run a free/alternative DOS if you don't BLETCH!. Please stop wasting cycles :-) Seriously, unix was around long before MS-DOS. There were unix cross-assemblers and disassemblers for the Z80, many of which run under linux with no problems. I have one which seems to have been distributed as 3 shell archives called z80ad*, and it lives in a dirextory called zmac. A search for those names might find something... > want any Microsoft products on your drive. There's no reason to invent > the wheel, and I suspect most people would just run something old under There is when the wheel is square with an off-centre hole!. And that's what MS-DOS feels like once you've got used to real OSes! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 7 17:29:39 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: <002201c41cb5$63494120$4601a8c0@ebrius> from "Mark Firestone" at Apr 7, 4 04:31:23 pm Message-ID: > > We have loads of old IBM servers on maintenance. These are Pentium PRO 200 > and below based boat anchors. > > I just had to show two different IBM engineers how to replace a RAID disk in > a hot swap caddy. If you don't connect the SCSI select cable, or in the > second case, connect it backwards, it no workie. Reminds me of the time a system manager at a place I was working ordered a failed servoid off the site. He wanted to replace every PCB in some expensive piece of equipment because they all failed diagnositcs. I'd just turned up, slapped a meter on the 5V line and found it was sitting at 4.2V.... > > Both engineers, after very little troubleshooting, wanted to order more > drives. > > What is this world comming to? On which planet have you been living for the last 20 years???? I've never met a field servoid who had any sort of clue whatsoever about the operation and troubelshooting of computers -- they just replace seemingly random parts until the fault goes away. Certainly I've never seen oue use a multimeter, let alone a 'scope... Needless to say I am not happy about this, this is no way to fix a computer. I've given the arguments many times before, so suffice it to say you'll never trace an intermittant fault that way. And you may not even correctly diagnose a steady fault (if module A has gone out of tolerance, then replacing module B (which is still good) with one that's got a slightly different margin might get the machine working again -- that is untile A drifts some more. Seen it happen!). I was once taught that the really good troubleshooter is the guy who makes some measurements, thinks _a lot_ about the problem, and then replacees exactly one part, and the machine works again for 10 more years. I am not that good! And don't give me the crap that proper troubleshooting is too expensive. Firstly, the modern way flatly doesn't work!. I've lost count of the number of times a machine has had to be 'repaired' several times for the same fault because the idiot servoid hadn't a clue about what was really wrong. All that downtime costs money!. And I am also not convinced that replacing rather than repairing a PCB is the way to go. I've also lost count of the number of times an expensive motherboard -- say in a workstation -- has been replaced for a serial port problem. Anyone with half a brain could find the dead buffer chip in 5 minutes, even without schematics. And it would take not much longer to solder in a replacement. Oh, what the heck... Here's a filk that might cheer you up... This is dedicated to all those who called out DEC field service for a simple problem, and wished you hadn't.......... It was on a Monday morning The DEC man came to call, My system wouldn't boot There was no prompt at all He pulled out all my SPC's To try a new backplane And I had to get the hardware guys to put them back again Oh it all makes work for field service men to do! It was on a Tuesday morning The hardware man came round He soldered and he fiddled And he said 'Look what I've found' 'Your ECOs are years behind' 'But I'll put it all to rights' Then he shorted out the power supply and out went all the lights Oh it all makes work for field service men to do! It was on a Wednesday morning The power supply came 'It's newer and it's better' 'But it works just the same' He could not fit the unit without stripping half the rack then he dropped my boot HDA so He called Peripherals back Oh it all makes work for field service men to do! It was on a Thursday morning The HDA came along with a blocklist and a cable and a list of what goes wrong He put it into my drive It took no time at all But I had to get the software guys to come and re-install Oh it all makes work for field service men to do It was on a Friday morning That Software made a start With BACKUP and SYSGEN He configured every part Every track and every sector But I found when he was gone He had overwritten the boot track and I couldn't turn it on On saturday and Sunday They do no work at all So It was on a Monday morning that the DEC man came to call -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 7 17:50:02 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: <200404071407.KAA07057@parse.com> from "Robert Krten" at Apr 7, 4 10:07:38 am Message-ID: One thing puzzles me. What's so significant about 40 years? Why wasn't there a similar message on this list 8 years ago, saying that the 360 was 32 years old -- a nice round number ? -tony From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 7 17:59:14 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM System/32 availabe in Spokane, Washington Message-ID: A nice lady in Spokane, Washington has a nice IBM System/32 (working) with complete reference manual library and software that she would like to go to a good home. If interested, please contact me and I'll put you in touch with said nice lady. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Apr 7 18:16:33 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: Z80 disassembler for Linux In-Reply-To: <20040407161540.4595aabd.sastevens@earthlink.net> References: <1081368496.3011.16.camel@localhost> <20040407161540.4595aabd.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200404072326.TAA26880@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> [Jim Donoghue ] > I'm trying to find a Z80 disassembler for Linux. [...] Well, it's not _specifically_ for Linux, but I have a multi-machine disassembler that includes a Z80 module. ftp.rodents.montreal.qc.ca:/mouse/disas/src/ contains the source. I've never tried to build it under Linux; if you have trouble, drop me a note off-list and I'll see what I can do. [Scott Stevens ] > A universal disassembler that is 'Open Source' would be a cool thing > to have, though. Well, my disassembler is hardly _universal_, but it has modules for a couple of 6502 derivatives, some variants of the 680x0, MIPS, SPARC, and x86 families, the VAX, and the Z-80...with the machine-specific parts relatively well isolated, so that dropping in another one is a fairly simple task. As for open source - mine is in the public domain. You'll have to decide whether that's open enough for you. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Apr 7 18:38:19 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: OT: mail server In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040407191022.04d9ac70@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that chris may have mentioned these words: >What do others recommend as a decent mail server that can handle content >filtering, multiple domains, POP access, and is free or darn near it. And >for the on topic nudge, I would like to be able to run it either on an >old Mac (probably not possible), or on mac68k NetBSD (so I can still use >my old Macs). Although I am not hard core on platform or OS, that's just >a "I'd like" option. I've been a qmail admin for durned near a decade, so if you do choose to go this route, I can most certainly help... also... >A web mail component would also be a nice thing if available. Webmail prolly won't run well on your target hardware, but if go with something newer, there are several choices for qmail; and with an older version of ColdFusion (4.5) you could set up webmail no matter what MTA... This combo will run fine on a Pentium 133 (almost on topic...) -- and there's always www.mail2web.com as backup... >I'm looking into Postfix or qmail, but I've only just started the >research, so I figured I'd see what others are using or recommend. If you base your decision on "which author of well-known MTA software is the biggest %*$&#^@%" it will be a toughie... they *all* have their character flaws... :-O If you want "It's gotta support the latest, kewlest schtuff" qmail isn't for you - you'd prolly wanna look at Postfix, they add features a lot more often than with qmail. qmail has external modules to support most anything, and there are patches for certain circumstances, purists (wisely) say to keep patches to a bare minimum, so one does not compromise security. If you're looking for an easy-to-admin basic MTA with good user support on the mailing list and scales well on older hardware, then my vote would be qmail -- qmail most certainly does *not* have feeping creaturism, which for older hardware is a very good thing. I was supporting 2500 mailboxen on a Cyrix 6x86 w/single 4.5M Micropolis SCSI HD - if it weren't for spam & viruses, we might still be running that ol' box... :-O I haven't run Sendmail in aeons; Jay seems very good with it & knows how to tweak it, but if you're a beginner, trying to admin it without the Batbook is... well... a trying experience (at least, as of 8-9 years ago... This was before M4 & whatnot[1].) However, honestly, I'd say don't run Sendmail for this reason: Because Jay has contributed *so much* time & effort to this list -- don't bug him! ;-) ;-) Heck, even buy him a beer!!! :-)) And spring for the *good stuff*!!! :-D [[Jay, if you make it to VCFEast, I *will* buy you a beer...Heck, I'll get you lit! ;-) ]] Anyway, that's my story, and if you want any (kinda ;-) unbiased info about qmail, feel free to ask away. I'd be more than happy to help! Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger [1] The quote I cannot ever get out of my head, altho I cannot remember who originally said it, is this: "The sendmail.cf file looks like an explosion at a punctuation factory." -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Apr 7 18:47:06 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000f01c41cfa$a2cf68c0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > On which planet have you been living for the last 20 years???? > > I've never met a field servoid who had any sort of clue > whatsoever about the operation and troubelshooting of > computers -- they just replace seemingly random parts > until the fault goes away. The DEC FS people who used to service the VAX-11/750 (this is late 80s, early 90s) and the associated RA60 were actually pretty good. > Certainly I've never > seen oue use a multimeter, let alone a 'scope... Don't recall a scope (but then I don't recall a fault that needed one) but when one of the regulators went in the VAX-11/750 PSU, he did track it down using a multimeter. OK, so he swapped an internal part in the PSU block (he had one in the car) but at least he knew what he was swapping and why. > And he said 'Look what I've found' > 'Your ECOs are years behind' > 'But I'll put it all to rights' > Then he shorted out the power supply > and out went all the lights Well not all the lights ... We'd ordered a DPV11 in error when what we should have ordered was a DSV11 (or vice-versa, I forget). The FS turned up with the right board and a trainee in tow. I assume he was a trainee as the first thing he did was pull the old board out, the second thing he did was keep his mouth shut while the older guy, realising that strictly speaking he shouldn't have assumed the trainee would have the nouse to turn off the power first, casually said, "Your PSU seems to have gone, luckily I have a spare in the car". I had to go away and have a little laugh. I suppose it's a phase we all go through. > It was on a Thursday morning > The HDA came along > with a blocklist and a cable > and a list of what goes wrong Without exception all (err, both) the disk FSEs I've had occasion to meet were pretty darn good. This is back in the days when DEC rated its FSEs by expecting them to be formally grilled by more senior engineers to gain a particular level of knowledge. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Apr 7 18:58:25 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: Z80 disassembler for Linux Message-ID: <200404072358.QAA27278@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Scott Stevens" > >On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:08:17 -0400 >Jim Donoghue wrote: > >> I'm trying to find a Z80 disassembler for Linux. There are a bunch of >> DOS ones out there, doesn't do me any good. A long time ago I had >> downloaded one that was source and compiled it, but I can't remember >> what it was. Anybody know of one? >> >> Jim > >Anything as simple as a Z80 disassembler is a stdin/stdout app anyway. Hi It is interesting that my definition of a disassembler is quite a bit different than yours. I would call this a code lister. A disassembler includes comments, selecting data types, labeling branching and entry points and statistical cross referencing ( usually as comments in code ). This is often an interactive process. I guess writing one's own disassemblers tends to spoil a person. Dwight From marvin at rain.org Wed Apr 7 18:52:34 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM Test Box Message-ID: <40749442.342417F0@rain.org> Now that I have had a chance to "fondle" the IBM test box, it is time to pass it on and let someone else fondle it :). It is now up for sale on the Vintage Computer Marketplace. From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Apr 7 18:49:33 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001001c41cfa$fa5d3270$5b01a8c0@athlon> > One thing puzzles me. What's so significant about 40 years? Isn't 050 the number of full years that DEC survived? > Why wasn't there a similar message on this list 8 years ago, > saying that > the 360 was 32 years old -- a nice round number ? 050 is nice and round too. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 7 19:01:47 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Apr 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > One thing puzzles me. What's so significant about 40 years? > > Why wasn't there a similar message on this list 8 years ago, saying that > the 360 was 32 years old -- a nice round number ? Because 8 years ago this hobby was at a level that is a small fraction of its current state. Way more people are cognizant today of the importance of celebrating computer history than 8 years ago. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Wed Apr 7 17:32:32 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: ot? HP 700/95 Terminal..... In-Reply-To: <40746438.7040100@theriver.com> References: <404E7CE0.5080706@theriver.com> <40746438.7040100@theriver.com> Message-ID: <761A3D4C-88E3-11D8-A80B-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Probably off topic... Do I have to do somthing special for HP terminals to be 'online'? I am trying to connect an HP terminal (700/95) to a linux box. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Apr 7 19:12:30 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today Message-ID: <200404080012.RAA27315@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > >On Wed, 7 Apr 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > >> One thing puzzles me. What's so significant about 40 years? >> >> Why wasn't there a similar message on this list 8 years ago, saying that >> the 360 was 32 years old -- a nice round number ? > >Because 8 years ago this hobby was at a level that is a small fraction of >its current state. Way more people are cognizant today of the importance >of celebrating computer history than 8 years ago. > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Hi Sellam You missed the point, 40 is base 10, 32 is base 2. Dwight From kenziem at sympatico.ca Wed Apr 7 19:16:41 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: ot? HP 700/95 Terminal..... In-Reply-To: <761A3D4C-88E3-11D8-A80B-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> References: <404E7CE0.5080706@theriver.com> <40746438.7040100@theriver.com> <761A3D4C-88E3-11D8-A80B-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <200404072016.41733.kenziem@sympatico.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On April 7, 2004 06:32 pm, Ron Hudson wrote: > Probably off topic... > > Do I have to do somthing special for HP terminals to be 'online'? > > I am trying to connect an HP terminal (700/95) to a linux box. Do you have a getty running on the port you've connected the terminal to? - -- Ottawa, Canada Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAdJnpLPrIaE/xBZARArn0AJ9gWl4NC91hTTrfU72f0Uva/6n4pgCfVdIs 7AePQF5J6YsRViXNR9bWl+A= =oE1l -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Apr 7 19:38:00 2004 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: ot? HP 700/95 Terminal..... In-Reply-To: <761A3D4C-88E3-11D8-A80B-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> (Ron Hudson's message of "Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:32:32 -0700") References: <404E7CE0.5080706@theriver.com> <40746438.7040100@theriver.com> <761A3D4C-88E3-11D8-A80B-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <200404080038.i380c0r9082661@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Ron Hudson wrote: > Do I have to do somthing special for HP terminals to be 'online'? Get to where the on-screen function key labels are showing and include "REMOTE MODE". There should be a * in that label (and preferably no others, I think). If there's no *, press the corresponding function key to toggle it. It's been a while since I used a 700/9x so don't remember which of the User and System keys you need to press to get there. -Frank McConnell From sastevens at earthlink.net Wed Apr 7 19:48:49 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040407194849.19bbc3ce.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:01:47 -0700 (PDT) Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 7 Apr 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > > One thing puzzles me. What's so significant about 40 years? > > > > Why wasn't there a similar message on this list 8 years ago, saying that > > the 360 was 32 years old -- a nice round number ? > > Because 8 years ago this hobby was at a level that is a small fraction of > its current state. Way more people are cognizant today of the importance > of celebrating computer history than 8 years ago. > I shudder sometimes to think of the things I walked by and ignored 10 years ago at swapmeets. I shudder to think of some of the hardware I passed up at surplus stores back then. So many of us were in pursuit of hardware we could strip memory out of to run Windows faster (speaking for self and some of crowd I associated with, not everyone here.) What a pitiful pursuit, looking back at it now. Some of the things I could have stored away that I would appreciate now... I'm sure I'm not alone in this. > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Apr 7 20:01:11 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers References: <000901c41cb5$5773c640$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <16500.42071.900000.152265@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell writes: >> Its the same for every tech profession, nobody wants to get their >> hands Tony> s/nobody/nobody except ARD/ Tony> :-) >> dirty learning the basics. Everything it taught by computer >> simulations where the user has no clue what is really going on at >> the basic level Tony> I remember a quote attributed to I.K. Brunell : 'Any third-rate Tony> engineer can make a complicated device more complicated. It Tony> takes a genius to go back to first principles'. That certainly explains the difference between the CDC 6600 and the IBM 360. paul From jrasite at eoni.com Wed Apr 7 20:06:00 2004 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: <000f01c41cfa$a2cf68c0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: I'll second that. Eighties were the heyday of DEC service. I was the keeper of a small Dec-net(work) that had an 11/44 as the boss hog. It was, IIRC, the first field install of RSX-11M+. There were a few s/w problems. DEC didn't hesitate to send an engineering team out from Maynard (to San Diego). Wrote the necessary patches sitting in my office. The FSE (Roy) that looked after the systems never (I repeat, NEVER) showed up without the proper parts, diagnostics and knowledge to fix the problem. (How did he know to have a spare HDA for that dead RA-80?) To all the (real) DEC employees on the list, THANK YOU! You built a great product and took care of your customers. Jim Arnott 78-94 GD/C San Diego On Wednesday, Apr 7, 2004, at 16:47 US/Pacific, Antonio Carlini wrote: >> > > The DEC FS people who used to service the VAX-11/750 > (this is late 80s, early 90s) and the associated > RA60 were actually pretty good. From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed Apr 7 20:19:29 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I will agree wholeheartedly..... No if I could only get in-touch with some of the "greats" from those days...David Hill, Arlan Leeds, Ralph Stammerjohn. If anyony on the list has any contact informtion...please forward my interest to them. David V. Corbin Formerly of ILC Data Device Corp, Bohemia, NY. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jim Arnott >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 9:06 PM >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>> Subject: Re: IBM Engineers >>> >>> I'll second that. Eighties were the heyday of DEC service. >>> I was the keeper of a small Dec-net(work) that had an 11/44 >>> as the boss hog. It was, IIRC, the first field install of >>> RSX-11M+. There were a few s/w problems. DEC didn't >>> hesitate to send an engineering team out from Maynard (to >>> San Diego). Wrote the necessary patches sitting in my office. >>> >>> The FSE (Roy) that looked after the systems never (I >>> repeat, NEVER) showed up without the proper parts, >>> diagnostics and knowledge to fix the problem. (How did he >>> know to have a spare HDA for that dead RA-80?) >>> >>> To all the (real) DEC employees on the list, THANK YOU! You >>> built a great product and took care of your customers. >>> >>> Jim Arnott >>> 78-94 GD/C San Diego >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, Apr 7, 2004, at 16:47 US/Pacific, Antonio >>> Carlini wrote: >>> >> >>> > >>> > The DEC FS people who used to service the VAX-11/750 >>> (this is late >>> > 80s, early 90s) and the associated RA60 were actually pretty good. >>> From sastevens at earthlink.net Wed Apr 7 20:14:08 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: Z80 disassembler for Linux In-Reply-To: <200404072358.QAA27278@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200404072358.QAA27278@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20040407201408.39d61e92.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:58:25 -0700 (PDT) "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > >From: "Scott Stevens" > > > >On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:08:17 -0400 > >Jim Donoghue wrote: > > > >> I'm trying to find a Z80 disassembler for Linux. There are a bunch of > >> DOS ones out there, doesn't do me any good. A long time ago I had > >> downloaded one that was source and compiled it, but I can't remember > >> what it was. Anybody know of one? > >> > >> Jim > > > >Anything as simple as a Z80 disassembler is a stdin/stdout app anyway. > > Hi > It is interesting that my definition of a disassembler is > quite a bit different than yours. I would call this a code > lister. A disassembler includes comments, selecting data types, > labeling branching and entry points and statistical cross referencing > ( usually as comments in code ). This is often an interactive > process. > I guess writing one's own disassemblers tends to spoil a person. > Dwight > I was referring to 'simplicity' in the matter of the resources of the host system it uses, not the complexity of the actual disassembler. Good disassemblers are very very complex and powerful tools. A good disassembler could have a powerful interface using simple 'curses' functionality or whatever the crude equivalent would be on MS-DOS. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 7 20:22:27 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: <200404080012.RAA27315@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Apr 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > > > >On Wed, 7 Apr 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > > >> One thing puzzles me. What's so significant about 40 years? > >> > >> Why wasn't there a similar message on this list 8 years ago, saying > that > >> the 360 was 32 years old -- a nice round number ? > > > >Because 8 years ago this hobby was at a level that is a small fraction > of > >its current state. Way more people are cognizant today of the > importance > >of celebrating computer history than 8 years ago. > > > >-- > > > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > > Hi Sellam > You missed the point, 40 is base 10, 32 is base 2. Er, I think (or at least interpreted) Tony's point to be why we are celebrating this now at 40 (i.e. base 10) when 32 (base 2) is so much nerdier? But the fact is that we've come a long way in recognizing the importance of computer history. An IBM 360 celebration could've happened at 32, but most people would be going, "Huh?" And there would not be the huge turnout that is expected at the CHM tonight. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Apr 7 20:24:13 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: <200404080012.RAA27315@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200404080012.RAA27315@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Apr 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > > > >On Wed, 7 Apr 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > > >> One thing puzzles me. What's so significant about 40 years? > > > >Because 8 years ago this hobby was at a level that is a small fraction > > Hi Sellam > You missed the point, 40 is base 10, 32 is base 2. ^^ O really? I see some extra digits have been added to the radix2 character set since I last studied Boolean Integer Math... ;} Cheers Johnni V-NuMann From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Apr 7 19:40:38 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today References: Message-ID: <40749F86.7040902@jetnet.ab.ca> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Er, I think (or at least interpreted) Tony's point to be why we are > celebrating this now at 40 (i.e. base 10) when 32 (base 2) is so much > nerdier? How the heck do you get 32 from base 2? Ben. From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Apr 7 20:46:36 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: <200404080012.RAA27315@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: > You missed the point, 40 is base 10, 32 is base 2. Only _true_believers_ know that most S/360 operations involving numbers were in packed decimal format*, so 40 is correct. *because of the financial industry. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Apr 7 20:44:17 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: Z80 disassembler for Linux In-Reply-To: <200404072358.QAA27278@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200404072358.QAA27278@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <200404080147.VAA27626@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > A disassembler includes comments, selecting data types, labeling > branching and entry points and statistical cross referencing ( > usually as comments in code ). This is often an interactive process. Try the disassembler I posted a link to a bit earlier today. (To save bother: ftp.rodents.montreal.qc.ca:/mouse/disas/src/.) It's pretty close to a disassembler in this sense. (It doesn't do "statistical cross referencing", whatever that is, but a text-save plus a little sed/awk groveling could probably get it.) I wrote it specifically to help people figure out what binaries of unknown provenance were *really* doing. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Apr 7 20:51:09 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: <16500.42071.900000.152265@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: > That certainly explains the difference between the CDC 6600 and the > IBM 360. It also explains why the Cyber line is dead (as is all of CDC, basically), and IBM keeps rolling out "new" S/360s. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Apr 7 20:52:15 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM System/32 availabe in Spokane, Washington In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > A nice lady in Spokane, Washington has a nice IBM System/32 (working) with > complete reference manual library and software that she would like to go > to a good home. > > If interested, please contact me and I'll put you in touch with said nice > lady. That is a pretty rare machine. Someone get it. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Apr 7 20:55:07 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today References: <40749F86.7040902@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <011f01c41d0c$849a3c10$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "ben franchuk" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 8:40 PM Subject: Re: IBM 360 turns 40 today > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > Er, I think (or at least interpreted) Tony's point to be why we are > > celebrating this now at 40 (i.e. base 10) when 32 (base 2) is so much > > nerdier? > > How the heck do you get 32 from base 2? > Ben. > > 2^5 ? From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 7 20:55:33 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040407185427.Y42587@newshell.lmi.net> > > You missed the point, 40 is base 10, 32 is base 2. ... and 42 base 13 is what you get when you multiply 6 by 9 From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 7 21:15:34 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: <011f01c41d0c$849a3c10$0500fea9@game> References: <40749F86.7040902@jetnet.ab.ca> <011f01c41d0c$849a3c10$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <20040407191457.Q42587@newshell.lmi.net> > How the heck do you get 32 from base 2? 100000 From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Apr 7 21:45:59 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: <20040407194849.19bbc3ce.sastevens@earthlink.net> References: <20040407194849.19bbc3ce.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20040408024559.GA17628@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Apr 07, 2004 at 07:48:49PM -0500, Scott Stevens wrote: > I shudder sometimes to think of the things I walked by and ignored 10 years > ago at swapmeets. I shudder to think of some of the hardware I passed up at > surplus stores back then. Hmm... I don't have too many of those regrets... My first "vintage" machine was a $35 PDP-8/L in 1982. At the time, all I had at home was a 32K PET and a Quest Elf (.25K ;-) It was joined soon after by a brand-spanking new C-64 (on loan from my employer). (Yes... I still have all of those machines and they still all work, except for that C-64 which was replaced in warranty). > So many of us were in pursuit of hardware we could strip memory out of to > run Windows faster (speaking for self and some of crowd I associated with, > not everyone here.) I was not running Windows in 1994. My daily-use box was an Amiga attached to the outside world via UUCP, picking up mail and a partial Usenet feed; my server was an $800 SPARC 1 to which I added 32MB of RAM and a 1.8GB disk, running SunOS 4.1. I was stripping DOS boxes for 4MB SIMMs for my Sun! I was also running a business at home that used VAXen and PDP-11s (providing support for former customers of Software Results). I didn't fire them up every day, but set-up and ready to turn on were a uVAX-I, uVAX-II, an 11/03, an 11/04, 11/23, and a VAX 8200/8300 (depending if I loaded the second CPU or not). The 11/750 was in storage. *snif* But, I do understand your lament... many of my friends were squarely on the DOS/Windows track at the time (most of them have at least migrated to Linux, part-time). I'm sure they, too, have regrets of interesting machines that passed them by. Since I got my start as a kid in the 1970s, I guess I always saw the stuff that flowed out of Redmond as an abberation, not as the be-all-end-all of computing. I know lots of people only slightly younger than I (37) that have absolutely no clue that there's all this stuff that has *nothing* to do with Windows. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 08-Apr-2004 02:21 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -56.5 F (-49.2 C) Windchill -92.7 F (-69.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9 kts Grid 047 Barometer 669.6 mb (11022. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From cbajpai at comcast.net Wed Apr 7 21:46:36 2004 From: cbajpai at comcast.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: <200404071407.KAA07057@parse.com> Message-ID: <000001c41d13$b66c9510$707ba8c0@xpdesk> Are there any working IBM 360 systems today? (or even emulators?) Any on display anywhere? -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Robert Krten Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 10:08 AM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today Read an article in the local paper, Ottawa Citizen, about the IBM 360 turning 40 today. Interesting read, they claim that in today's dollars, the total effort cost something like $30 BILLION :-) The picture in the paper was interesting, because the front panel is the exact same one that I have in the basement... Cheers, -RK -- Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting, Books and Training at www.parse.com Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! From dan at ekoan.com Wed Apr 7 22:01:03 2004 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:43 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 11/730 in Utah Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040407225539.04d1bd40@enigma> Hello, I've got a lead on a VAX 11/730 in Utah. Since I'm in Maryland and am more interested in PDPs than VAXen (unless you've got a MicroVAX you want to get rid of), I'd like to have a DEC devotee closer to Utah save this machine. Contact me off-list for the details if you can get to northern Utah to pick this up. Bonus points if someone has documentation on the MINC-11, specifically the Dual Mux, A/D, D/A, Digital Out, Digital In, and Clock cards. The owner of the 11/730 is looking for this information. Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Apr 7 21:23:57 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: <000f01c41cfa$a2cf68c0$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <000f01c41cfa$a2cf68c0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <20040408022357.GA16962@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Apr 08, 2004 at 12:47:06AM +0100, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > On which planet have you been living for the last 20 years???? > > > > I've never met a field servoid who had any sort of clue > > whatsoever about the operation and troubelshooting of > > computers -- they just replace seemingly random parts > > until the fault goes away. > > The DEC FS people who used to service the VAX-11/750 > (this is late 80s, early 90s) and the associated > RA60 were actually pretty good. That was my experience as well... the guys we had working on our 11/750 were pretty good (c. 1984-1988). I wasn't quite as impressed with the MicroVAX guys, though... they were a bunch of board swappers. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 08-Apr-2004 02:21 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -56.5 F (-49.2 C) Windchill -92.7 F (-69.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9 kts Grid 047 Barometer 669.6 mb (11022. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From torquil at chemist.com Wed Apr 7 23:58:45 2004 From: torquil at chemist.com (Torquil MacCorkle, III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: WTB: PDP11 Message-ID: <072101c41d26$2d61bf80$0300a8c0@napoleon> Hi guys, I really want to experience using a real live PDP-11. Does anyone have one for a reasonable(?) cost? I'd prefer a model that is shippable, and if not, one that is close to me (Virginia). Thanks! -------- Thanks, Torquil MacCorkle, III Lexington, Virginia From torquil at chemist.com Thu Apr 8 00:49:25 2004 From: torquil at chemist.com (Torquil MacCorkle, III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: WTB: Digital 320Mb tapes or accompanying drive References: <072101c41d26$2d61bf80$0300a8c0@napoleon> Message-ID: <073101c41d2d$418c63f0$0300a8c0@napoleon> (Sorry for not combining my buying requests!) I am looking to buy Digital 320mb (620ft/189M) tapes. (TZK1X-CA) Also a drive for them, but mainly the tapes. I am trying to make my MicroVAX 3100 into a logging server for my network (is that underkill for this machine?) From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Thu Apr 8 01:00:30 2004 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: <16500.21670.402364.932315@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <004a01c41d2e$cc1efae0$4d4d2c0a@atx> > That reminds me of a interesting quote from Thomas Watson: > > Last week Control Data ... announced the 6600 system. I understand > that in the laboratory developing the system there are only 34 > people including the janitor. Of these, 14 are engineers and 4 are > programmers ... Contrasting this modest effort with our vast > development activities, I fail to understand why we have lost our > industry leadership position by letting someone else offer the > world's most powerful computer. > Russets and Citrus fruits The 6600 was a single design intended to do one thing excellently (run Fortran programs) One model, one assembler, one Fortran compiler, and a minimal operating system. (OK, later came the variants. The other operating systems and compilers came from the customers) The S/360 ... well you can fill the rest in yourself (but I'll mention that there were at least two compilers each for at least 4 programming languages) Andy From pat at computer-refuge.org Thu Apr 8 01:05:17 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: <004a01c41d2e$cc1efae0$4d4d2c0a@atx> References: <004a01c41d2e$cc1efae0$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <200404080105.17621.pat@computer-refuge.org> Andy Holt declared on Thursday 08 April 2004 01:00 am: > The 6600 was a single design intended to do one thing excellently (run > Fortran programs) > One model, one assembler, one Fortran compiler, and a minimal > operating system. > (OK, later came the variants. The other operating systems and > compilers came from the customers) Indeed. I work with some people that wrote Purdue's CDC 6600 OS. :) If I'm lucky, I might be able to find a copy on 9 track somewhere. (It's something in my to-do queue.) Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Wed Apr 7 11:21:25 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: FREE: NetFRAME NS400 In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040407111534.03e63060@enigma> References: <20040406235345.73596.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> <6.0.3.0.2.20040407111534.03e63060@enigma> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040407122051.025b6e58@24.161.37.215> I may have one or two spare SCSI2's, what size you looking for? -John Boffemmyer IV At 11:19 AM 4/7/2004, you wrote: >Hi all, > >At 07:53 PM 4/6/04, you wrote: >>Doug Ricci, who works in IT at the Johns Hopkins Dept. >>of Radiology, is offering a NetFRAME NS400 > >I've spoken to Doug and I'll be picking up the machine, since >I'm less than half an hour's drive away from him. I will need >to locate some spare SCSI-2 drives, but everything else sounds >to be in good shape to get it back up and running. > > >Cheers, > >Dan ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From jdbryan at acm.org Wed Apr 7 12:22:14 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: HP 64000 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200404071722.i37HMFk3017882@mail.bcpl.net> On 5 Apr 2004 at 21:59, McFadden, Mike wrote: > One of the precision instrument companies in Kansas City just shipped in > some old equipment to the computer surplus. > > There was a HP64000 with a HP64203A for 8085 module Presuming that this is a 64100A mainframe, would you know the serial number prefix? I might be interested in a later unit (one with the 32K memory expansion and the 400 watt power supply). Other than the emulator, any other option cards in the card cage? -- Dave From workstations at sbcglobal.net Wed Apr 7 14:12:02 2004 From: workstations at sbcglobal.net (Frank Stotts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: Wanted: RL02K (Re: WTB/T: RL02/01, QBUS SMD) Message-ID: Patrick, Interested in deck digital HD 10GB RL02K total of 55. w/ deck w/ VT 320 Terminals There are some Deck printers no s/n or p/n's right now. Are you interested in making offer? Frank Stotts Workstations Hardware Services E-mail>frank@wrksta.com (405)842-5151 From RCini at congressfinancial.com Wed Apr 7 14:10:47 2004 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: Search engines for networks? Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA4652@MAIL10> Alex: I actually thought of this but since the price is quoted as "contact a sales representative" I felt it would cost more than "free". This is a home network where I collect all of my stuff. 650 directories and about 9,000 files in 17gb, not including my MP3 archive which is another 13gb. I know this only because I just moved it to another server (ProLiant 1600, dual P-III/550 and 91gb RAID5 running NT Server and sitting in an old DEC 42U rack). Probably overkill but the price was right. Don't laugh...I collect a lot of crap. There's also some good stuff in there, too. I've imaged my entire collection of PC floppy disks and I'm working on system ROMs. Anyone need PC Tools 7?? How about the True Type Font Pack for Windows 3.1? QEMM? How about Windows 1.0? I also have tons of utilities, MAME stuff, instruction manuals, a mirror of my Web site, the SourceSafe database for my projects. Problem is that I can't find certain things when I need to. Rich -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of meltie Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 2:05 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; Paul Berger Subject: Re: Search engines for networks? On Wednesday 07 April 2004 18:21, Paul Berger wrote: > On Tue, 2004-04-06 at 08:41, Cini, Richard wrote: I'm quite surprised no-one's suggested Google's Search Appliance yet. Google's indexing technology - in a rackmount box, for your intranet. http://www.google.com/appliance/ alex/melt From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Wed Apr 7 21:54:00 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: Another day at the Auction: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. In-Reply-To: <40746438.7040100@theriver.com> References: <404E7CE0.5080706@theriver.com> <40746438.7040100@theriver.com> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040407224328.025c4780@24.161.37.215> Hmmm, where are you? half-height external SCSI enclosures and drives? sounds appealing. even the external SCSI burner sounds good. Any going back up for sale? -John Boffemmyer IV At 04:27 PM 4/7/2004, you wrote: >Well I had another good day at the auction. For $7.50 I got two pallets o' >stuff, a pretty good haul. Even had some stuff given to me by the pee-cee >crowd. > >The Good! > >A VT220 in REALLY good shape, no discoloration, no cracks or scratches and >No burn-in. Even the "digital" label on the front is not even faded!!. >This is the best VT220 I've ever seen. >A SUN GDM-5010PT. Fully operational 20 inch, switchable VGA/13W3 monitor >in great shape. (He-He) >A external DDS half-height tape drive. Type unknown till I hook it up. >Another external "mystery" tape drive, looks like a QIC, but won't know >till I hook it up. >A older external scsi CD burner, probably a 2x speed, needs a caddy. >About 4-5 1/2 height external scsi cases with centronic connectors. >Unknown hard drives. >A box o' scsi HDD's, mostly 1-2 GB, condition unknown. >A couple of printers 2-3 HP 5L and 6L's a epsom and 2 HP 890's. All seen >to be complete but they may/may not work. But Hey for $7.50!! > >AND > >A Vaxstation 4000 m90 in REALLY good conditiom, no disk, but has all the >sleds, and 64MB of memory, and a large video card (spLGC ??) (WOOHOO) > >The Bad! > >A bunch of dead monitors I had to haul away as they were part of the >pallete that had the SUN GDM, an a bunch of good 13/14"VGA monitors I'll >try to give away. >A bunch of truly useless and broken stuff. > >The UGLY!! > >Another Dec 3000 m400. I already have about 4-5 of these, but people keep >giving them to me. They are TANKS, the heavist "desktop" alpha I've ever >seen. Full of ram, two "whiney" RZ26 and a CDROM, I took it only because >the guy who had it would toss it, if I didn't take it. The I/O on these >things is fantastic for its age though. > >Two weeks until the next one... gotta clear out more space :-) > >Cheers > >Tom ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From hansp at citem.org Thu Apr 8 01:21:13 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: <000001c41d13$b66c9510$707ba8c0@xpdesk> References: <000001c41d13$b66c9510$707ba8c0@xpdesk> Message-ID: <4074EF59.6020703@citem.org> Chandra Bajpai wrote: >Are there any working IBM 360 systems today? (or even emulators?) >Any on display anywhere? > > Display, yes : Deutsche Museum in Munich has a 360/20 (does that count?) Emulators : search Google for Hercules Emulator. You can also get the source to OS/360 complete with instructions on how to build it. Several other OS are available in binary only form. We recently found a private collector here in France with a truly marvelous collection of old iron including a couple of 360's. We plan on restoring his 360/40 sometime in the next 12 months and it should be on display (before, during and after restoration) in Paris sometime soon. More details when I can release then ;-) -- Hans P From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Apr 8 01:51:40 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: Search engines for networks? References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA4652@MAIL10> Message-ID: <01f601c41d35$f2808e40$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cini, Richard" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 3:10 PM Subject: RE: Search engines for networks? > Alex: > > I actually thought of this but since the price is quoted as "contact > a sales representative" I felt it would cost more than "free". > > This is a home network where I collect all of my stuff. 650 > directories and about 9,000 files in 17gb, not including my MP3 archive > which is another 13gb. I know this only because I just moved it to another > server (ProLiant 1600, dual P-III/550 and 91gb RAID5 running NT Server and > sitting in an old DEC 42U rack). Probably overkill but the price was right. > > Don't laugh...I collect a lot of crap. There's also some good stuff > in there, too. I've imaged my entire collection of PC floppy disks and I'm > working on system ROMs. Anyone need PC Tools 7?? How about the True Type > Font Pack for Windows 3.1? QEMM? How about Windows 1.0? > > I also have tons of utilities, MAME stuff, instruction manuals, a > mirror of my Web site, the SourceSafe database for my projects. > > Problem is that I can't find certain things when I need to. > > Rich > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of meltie > Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 2:05 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; Paul Berger > Subject: Re: Search engines for networks? There is a nice little program call whereisit that does the following: PROGRAM HIGHLIGHTS ================== Suitable for beginners and advanced users ----------------------------------------- Very adjustable program with many options for power users, as well as easy to use with default settings and Quick-Setup Wizard for all those who don't want to get their hands dirty. Explorer-like interface ----------------------- Easy to use, familiar Explorer-like user interface with adjustable toolbar, columns to choose between, and extensive use of object menus (right mouse click). Full multi-language support is included for international users. Wide media and file system support ---------------------------------- Where is it? supports any media type Windows can use, including diskettes, CD-ROMs, removable disks like iomega Zip and Jaz, hard disks, network drives etc. It will recognize by name and collect useful data for most of them, too. Also, it is compatible with all Windows-supported file systems, including FAT, FAT32, and NTFS. Manageable catalog files ------------------------ Logical organization of databases, based on one or more catalogs. Each catalog can easily be transferred as a single file to another computer, a friend, a public forum... Small catalog-file size with optional compression, with approximate usage of 1 MB for 40.000 files and folders (that's about 6 fully filed CD-ROMs). Internal database structure optimized for very efficient access and small total size. Single-file, transferable catalog storage makes sharing your data easy. Fast access to item's properties -------------------------------- Fast and easy access to every item's detailed properties, from wherever you are. Want to get item's description? Just leave mouse pointer on it for a moment, description will popup as a tool-tip!. 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Included with the program is a comprehensive collection of plugins, covering all widely used description file formats, such as 4DOS/NDOS, FILE_ID.DIZ, FILES.BBS, 00INDEX.TXT... description files, and importing details about audio CDs, WAV and MP3 audio files, Office documents, EXE files and system libraries, fonts, HTML files, Adobe Acrobat PDF files, most graphic files etc. Also included are thumbnail plugins, importing small, downsized images from most graphic files in use today. Internal support for many compressed file formats ------------------------------------------------- Handling of most compressed file formats on media scan, including ZIP, ARJ, RAR, CAB, LHA/LZH, TAR, ARC, ACE, ZOO, GZ, SFX... Compressed archive files can be presented as folders, showing their content. Archive files can be extracted right out from WhereIsIt? to any folder, and a file compressed inside archive file can be viewed or launched with associated program with one click! 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Export your data to ASCII file, Excel table, rich- text document, HTML document, print on your printer, or send by fax using the Microsoft Fax, after previewing it on full-screen, with adjustable zoom. Script language for automated tasks ----------------------------------- Professional version of WhereIsIt includes internal script language that can help you automate tasks like unattended catalog updates. ... and many, many more! If you have an idea on your own how to further improve this program, feel free to send in your suggestions at "support@whereisit-soft.com". It sounds like you want to catalog files you already have archived and want to know what they are and where to find them, this should work for that. Since the locations probably will not change allot its quite a bit faster to search a database then have windows scan your complete network every time you want to find one file. From torquil at chemist.com Thu Apr 8 02:47:06 2004 From: torquil at chemist.com (Torquil MacCorkle, III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 M10 References: <072101c41d26$2d61bf80$0300a8c0@napoleon> <073101c41d2d$418c63f0$0300a8c0@napoleon> Message-ID: <077301c41d3d$b1dedd80$0300a8c0@napoleon> So I just got my new MicroVAX 3100 M10 all cleaned up, and I removed the memory boards, there are two, they hook together and are labeled "4/8 MB Memory Option"... My question is which is it? 4mb or 8mb? ;) Anyone have any more info on these machines, I guess my previous question about would a logging server/writing logs to tape machine be underkill for this machine is definitely no? Are there any RAM upgrades readily available for these? I think 16mb+ (ftpd, telnetd, nfs) would be needed for my purposes? Also, anyone have an MMJ->DB9/25 adapter (that doesn't require an MMJ cable, or at least include it) for sale? Lastly, can this machine take any SCSI hard drive? Right now it has a 50 pin RZ26-E in it, that is 1.05gb right? I am pretty sure it is dead. Any help is greatly appreciated! -------- Thanks, Torquil MacCorkle, III Lexington, Virginia From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Apr 8 04:15:05 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: OT: mail server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040408111505.4f1ec803.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:36:00 -0400 chris wrote: [...] > content filtering so I can block certain kinds of email. > > What do others recommend as a decent mail server that can handle > content filtering, multiple domains, POP access, and is free or darn > near it. And for the on topic nudge, I would like to be able to run it > either on an old Mac (probably not possible), or on mac68k NetBSD (so > I can still use my old Macs). Although I am not hard core on platform > or OS, that's just a "I'd like" option. - NetBSD on what ever it runs on (gives you a lot of choices, mac68k, sparc, hp300, ...) as OS. I use a SS20 and a RS/6000 for this. - Postfix or sendmail as MTA. (As they come with NetBSD.) - Maybe spamassassin for taging / filtering spam. - procmail. It can do a lot of the work of spamassassin with less CPU cycles and is usefull for other things too. (E.g. pre sort mail from different mailing lists into different mail boxes.) - uw-imap for IMAP and POP3. > A web mail component would also be a nice thing if available. No ideas about that. A friend uses - how was ist called - squirrel mail? -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From KParker at workcover.com Thu Apr 8 02:02:13 2004 From: KParker at workcover.com (Parker, Kevin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: Z80 disassembler for Linux Message-ID: <3A9F9A4AE5E0D311865700508B97404D0C31EFA6@ex1.internal.workcover.sa.gov.au> You might try asking on comp.sys.tandy as well - they're big Z80 guys from way back KP -----Original Message----- From: Jim Donoghue [mailto:jim@smithy.com] Sent: Thursday, 8 April 2004 5:38 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Z80 disassembler for Linux I'm trying to find a Z80 disassembler for Linux. There are a bunch of DOS ones out there, doesn't do me any good. A long time ago I had downloaded one that was source and compiled it, but I can't remember what it was. Anybody know of one? Jim ************************************************************************ This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee only. It may contain information that is protected by legislated confidentiality and/or is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you are prohibited from disseminating, distributing or copying this e-mail. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail may not necessarily be that of the WorkCover Corporation of South Australia. Although precautions have been taken, the sender cannot warrant that this e-mail or any files transmitted with it are free of viruses or any other defect. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and destroy the original e-mail and any copies. ************************************************************************ From hansp at citem.org Thu Apr 8 05:24:37 2004 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans B PUFAL) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: USPTO computer patent index In-Reply-To: <006401c41c14$0948b4e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <4073020B.60002@citem.org> <006401c41c14$0948b4e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <40752865.9020906@citem.org> John Allain wrote: >Kinda funky in it's present state. takes just under two minutes to display >(read: display, not download). On this computer that's an estimated 80 >billion clock cycles, or perhaps 4 billion instructions. Amazing that it >works. Yikes. Good luck on a rev.2 Thx for starting this. > > Yes Javascript is not the fastest of languages. The code started out on another project which had just a couple of hundred entries. Its speed was quite acceptable and it had the advantage of running offline by just saving the page locally : all the data and code are in the page file. I made some measurements and found that IE 6.0 was 5 times slower than Mozilla 1.7. I made some changes to the code and now the speeds are comparable. (No I did not put in noops for Mozilla ;-) Turns out that IE does not like appending to very large strings. In developing the tables I would do a bunch of appends for each row, with tracing I could see IE slow down as the table got bigger. By building each row separately and doing just one append per row, I got a five fold speed improvement on IE. Mozilla still runs at its old speed. There are now just over 1000 patents in the list. It is definitely time to set up a database.... >My suggestion: display the default sortation/selection as static html at the >bottom, for something to look at while the CPU chugs. CGI or PHP >would of course offload it all > > Yes PHP is the way to go ;-) -- HansP From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Apr 8 05:55:28 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 M10 In-Reply-To: <077301c41d3d$b1dedd80$0300a8c0@napoleon> References: <072101c41d26$2d61bf80$0300a8c0@napoleon> <073101c41d2d$418c63f0$0300a8c0@napoleon> <077301c41d3d$b1dedd80$0300a8c0@napoleon> Message-ID: <20040408105528.GA18122@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, Apr 08, 2004 at 03:47:06AM -0400, Torquil MacCorkle, III wrote: > So I just got my new MicroVAX 3100 M10 all cleaned up, and I removed the > memory boards, there are two, they hook together and are labeled "4/8 MB > Memory Option"... My question is which is it? 4mb or 8mb? ;) Look at the RAM chips and how many there are... You can do a "sh mem" from the ">>>" prompt also... > Anyone have any more info on these machines, I guess my previous question > about would a logging server/writing logs to tape machine be underkill for > this machine is definitely no? Well this is a CVAX machine with 2.4 VUPs. See: http://www.de.netbsd.org/Documentation/Hardware/Machines/DEC/vax/microvaxes.html#microvaxes:microvax_3100_m10 This isn't very fast, even for a VAX. It should be OK for this task, depending on the load. > Are there any RAM upgrades readily available for these? I think 16mb+ > (ftpd, telnetd, nfs) would be needed for my purposes? I suspect that 32 MB is the maximum for this machine as 32 MB is the limit for other VAXen of this type (CPU chip, chipset). Don't forget that this is a VAX. VAX CISC code is very dense. A GENERIC NetBSD/vax kernel needs about 1.5 MB where an Alpha kernel needs 6..7 MB. > Also, anyone have an MMJ->DB9/25 adapter (that doesn't require an MMJ cable, > or at least include it) for sale? Well. Get out your soldering iron. ;-) > Lastly, can this machine take any SCSI hard drive? Right now it has a 50 > pin RZ26-E in it, that is 1.05gb right? I am pretty sure it is dead. You can use normal SCSI devices. The box seems old enough to be bitten by the 1 GB boot limit. I.e. your boot partition must be at the beginning of the disk and it must be smaller then 1 GB. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From wmaddox at pacbell.net Thu Apr 8 06:10:51 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today References: Message-ID: <00fa01c41d5a$29a3f690$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> As was pointed out at the event itself this evening, there was a retrospective panel on the 360 at a conference in the 70's. It's significance was understood long ago. I think 40 was just a convenient round number that coincided with CHM's interest in such an event. The CHM in its current incarnation did not exist 8 years ago. The museum is definitely eager to capture the recollections of industry pioneers who may not be with us for too many more years. --Bill From mross666 at hotmail.com Thu Apr 8 06:12:35 2004 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: IBM System/32 availabe in Spokane, Washington Message-ID: > > A nice lady in Spokane, Washington has a nice IBM System/32 (working) >with > > complete reference manual library and software that she would like to go > > to a good home. > > > > If interested, please contact me and I'll put you in touch with said >nice > > lady. > >That is a pretty rare machine. Someone get it. I'm on it, it will be saved. I'll have to have it shipped - Spokane is within easy range for me (NY) to drive and pick up a /360, but just a little too far for a /32 :-) Wierd this just showed up - I just picked up a System/32 from Canada last week, in *very* different condition... beware the possums! - http://www.corestore.org/32.htm William, perhaps we should do a joint 'Corestore - Federal Signal & Ironworks' IBM Midrange exhibit for VCF-East? You bring the S/3, I'll bring S/32, S/34, S/36, and S/38? I warned Sellam to reinforce the floors ;-) Mike _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Apr 8 06:24:25 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: Sinclair clear-out (Cambridge UK) Message-ID: <1081423464.2223.17.camel@weka.localdomain> To make room for other things I'm disposing of some Sinclair stuff - a couple of running machines, and several that can be fixed easily enough. Possibly good for someone who wants to start a collection? Boxed ZX81 (issue 3 IIRC) - no PSU though and keyboard membrane needs work. Boxed 48K Spectrum, PSU, leads, manuals etc. Boxed Spectrum+ - no PSU though and unresponsive keyboard. Spectrum +2 (grey case) currently in pieces and rather unwell :) Spectrum +2A (black case) and PSU Spectrum +2A (black case) and PSU - keyboard unresponsive. 2 light guns 3 joysticks Note the boxes aren't anything special... but they're there ;-) I have a ton or two of tapes I can pass on, and I think there are manuals for the +2 in the loft still. Possibly some other documentation too. Oh, and I expect I can throw in a WHSmith tape recorder too ;) Hopefully someone will just take everything on... cheers Jules From pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org Thu Apr 8 07:06:35 2004 From: pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers References: <0404012020.AA01439@ivan.Harhan.ORG><00b501c41af0$fae4ac20$4601a8c0@ebrius> <16497.27492.637163.95137@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <01c901c41d61$f41c8700$4601a8c0@ebrius> Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I'll have a look into it. Unfortunately, there I have about five other projects ahead of this one. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Koning" To: Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 3:21 PM Subject: Re: FCC Licensing of Personal Computers > You can tunnel DECnet over IP, using GRE (RFC 2784). I don't know if > there are standard tools to do that. Perhaps a Linux box could do it? > Linux supports DECnet, and GRE, so the things you need may be there > already. > > Time to do some more reading... > > paul "I guess that every form of refuge has its price." --The Eagles -------------------------------------------------------------- Website - http://www.retrobbs.org Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org BBS - http://bbs.retrobbs.org:8000 IRC - irc.retrobbs.org #main WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki From pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org Thu Apr 8 07:15:17 2004 From: pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers References: Message-ID: <01d801c41d63$29dfff10$4601a8c0@ebrius> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 11:29 PM Subject: Re: IBM Engineers > On which planet have you been living for the last 20 years???? > > I've never met a field servoid who had any sort of clue whatsoever about > the operation and troubelshooting of computers -- they just replace > seemingly random parts until the fault goes away. Certainly I've never > seen oue use a multimeter, let alone a 'scope... Heh. I've been stuck in the deal. I used to be one of three Macintosh field service engineers at Arizona State University. We used to *really* fix things, and I'm sure Apple would have been really upset if they knew that we used to really fix things, because it cost them a lot of lost revenue in parts. I used to carry a multimeter around with me, so there. (; > I was once taught that the really good troubleshooter is the guy who > makes some measurements, thinks _a lot_ about the problem, and then > replacees exactly one part, and the machine works again for 10 more > years. I am not that good! Rules me out as well. I have to tell you, I'm self taught at all of this. This a hobby that got out of hand. My favorite comment I ever got from a customer was, "we like you because you don't make stuff up. If you don't know the answer, you tell us." "I guess that every form of refuge has its price." --The Eagles -------------------------------------------------------------- Website - http://www.retrobbs.org Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org BBS - http://bbs.retrobbs.org:8000 IRC - irc.retrobbs.org #main WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Apr 8 06:47:56 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: HP 64000 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <200404071722.i37HMFk3017882@mail.bcpl.net> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040408074756.00895c20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:22 PM 4/7/04 -0400, you wrote: >On 5 Apr 2004 at 21:59, McFadden, Mike wrote: > >> One of the precision instrument companies in Kansas City just shipped in >> some old equipment to the computer surplus. >> >> There was a HP64000 with a HP64203A for 8085 module > >Presuming that this is a 64100A mainframe, It's probably a 64000 just like Mike said. The 64000 and 64100 are very different machines. Joe would you know the serial number >prefix? I might be interested in a later unit (one with the 32K memory >expansion and the 400 watt power supply). > >Other than the emulator, any other option cards in the card cage? > > -- Dave > > From pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org Thu Apr 8 07:53:41 2004 From: pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers References: <20040406235345.73596.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com><6.0.3.0.2.20040407065923.025bd7b8@24.161.37.215><002201c41cb5$63494120$4601a8c0@ebrius> <000901c41cb5$5773c640$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <01f701c41d68$85dacd90$4601a8c0@ebrius> Heh. You're talking to the kid who got belted for taking apart all the radios, televisions, and other eletrical goods in the house when I was five. Many of the SCSI select cables are keyed. Some of them are not. I meet both kinds of service people, those who got into it because they love computers and are interested in how they work, and everybody else. I think I fall in to the first category, or at least I hope I do. CALL -151 mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teo Zenios" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 4:31 PM Subject: Re: IBM Engineers > Its the same for every tech profession, nobody wants to get their hands > dirty learning the basics. Everything it taught by computer simulations > where the user has no clue what is really going on at the basic level > anymore. The techs you are referring to probably know everything about how a > raid is supposed to work inside and out, they just don't know plugging a > cable in backwards causes problems because they don't do it enough or > usually get it correct on the first guess. I would imagine that its more > cost effective to have inexpensive techs who can just swap parts when there > is a problem then to have 100's of better paid knowledgeable engineers who > actually know what they are doing go out and take time troubleshooting a > problem. "I guess that every form of refuge has its price." --The Eagles -------------------------------------------------------------- Website - http://www.retrobbs.org Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org BBS - http://bbs.retrobbs.org:8000 IRC - irc.retrobbs.org #main WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Apr 8 07:34:41 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: <01f701c41d68$85dacd90$4601a8c0@ebrius> References: <20040406235345.73596.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com><6.0.3.0.2.20040407065923.025bd7b8@24.161.37.215><002201c41cb5$63494120$4601a8c0@ebrius> <000901c41cb5$5773c640$0500fea9@game> <01f701c41d68$85dacd90$4601a8c0@ebrius> Message-ID: <407546E1.9090605@jcwren.com> Mark Firestone wrote: >Heh. You're talking to the kid who got belted for taking apart all the >radios, televisions, and other eletrical goods in the house when I was five. >Many of the SCSI select cables are keyed. Some of them are not. I meet >both kinds of service people, those who got into it because they love >computers and are interested in how they work, and everybody else. > >I think I fall in to the first category, or at least I hope I do. > >CALL -151 > > f666g >mark > From cb at mythtech.net Thu Apr 8 08:41:10 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: mail server Message-ID: >My setup with postfix, amavisd-new, and spamassassin works great. I run it >under Linux Fedora Core 1. I'm not sure if you can get it to work under >NetBSD or not. I don't have to stay with NetBSD, I just have a little more experience with it then with Linux or any other *nix. But generally, I learn more of an OS when I find a reason to use it (I only learned NetBSD because I had to replace Quid Pro Quo as my web server, and decided to go with Apache... and Dave on this list had previously peaked my interest in NetBSD on old Macs... since Apache ran on it, that was all the excuse I needed... if I need to learn a new OS to run a mail server that will fit my needs, then I will do so). Although I know Postfix is available for mac68k NetBSD... I just don't know about amavisd or spamassassin... but I would think as long as it works with any version of NetBSD, and I can get the source, I should be able to compile it for mac68k. Thanks! -chris From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Apr 8 08:51:26 2004 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: mail server In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200404080948828.SM02976@bobdev> Although I know Postfix is available for mac68k NetBSD... I just don't know about amavisd or spamassassin... but I would think as long as it works with any version of NetBSD, and I can get the source, I should be able to compile it for mac68k. Postfix: http://www.postfix.org SpamAssassin: http://www.spamassassin.org Amavisd-new http://www.ijs.si/software/amavisd/ Sources for all 3 are available. Amavisd and SpamAssassin are in Perl. From cb at mythtech.net Thu Apr 8 08:51:53 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: OT: mail server Message-ID: >Webmail prolly won't run well on your target hardware, but if go with >something newer, there are several choices for qmail; and with an older >version of ColdFusion (4.5) you could set up webmail no matter what MTA... >This combo will run fine on a Pentium 133 (almost on topic...) -- and >there's always www.mail2web.com as backup... I can also run a 2nd machine to handle the actual web mail processing if need be. And web mail isn't a deal breaker anyway. I just happen to have two or three users that keep asking me about it, so I figured as long as I'm upgrading, now would be a good time to try to add it. >If you want "It's gotta support the latest, kewlest schtuff" qmail isn't >for you I don't care about the latest bells and whistles per se... however, since my goal is to reject known spam and viri, that ebs into the relm. But, it sounds like you are having no problems on that end of things anyway. In fact, like you point out, since I want to run on old hardware, I may be better off going with something that isn't going to expect me to constantly add to it... that way once it is running, I can just leave it running and not have to worry about regular updates (probably the single biggest reason why I won't run Windows based internet servers... they expect you to do updates too often, I don't have the time/desire to jerk around with that). >I was supporting 2500 mailboxen on a Cyrix 6x86 w/single 4.5M Micropolis >SCSI HD - if it weren't for spam & viruses, we might still be running that >ol' box... :-O I'm not looking at anywhere NEAR that number of boxes. I'm looking at around 50 spread among a dozen domains (most of the domains are Unified accounts anyway, so one box covers all possible addresses for the domain). The server only gets in the range of 2000 messages a day (most being to me anyway). So it is a fairly light duty server. >I haven't run Sendmail in aeons; I've heard enough horror stories about Sendmail to know that I probably don't want to use it. From what I gather, its great, IF you know how to use it... but if you are new to it, be prepared to move the sacrificial lambs off the SCSI god alter and onto the Sendmail god alter. (Ironically, Sendmail is the only *nix mailer I have used already... I'm running it on both my web servers for handling emails created by web forms... but I didn't really have to do much to get it up and running, just a little tweaking to lock it down from the outside) >Anyway, that's my story, and if you want any (kinda ;-) unbiased info about >qmail, feel free to ask away. I'd be more than happy to help! Thanks -chris From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Apr 8 09:00:17 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers References: <16500.42071.900000.152265@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <16501.23281.391000.972054@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "William" == William Donzelli writes: >> That certainly explains the difference between the CDC 6600 and >> the IBM 360. William> It also explains why the Cyber line is dead (as is all of William> CDC, basically), and IBM keeps rolling out "new" S/360s. As a former DEC guy, I certainly know the power of marketing, and the damage a CEO can do to a company if he claims that marketing doesn't matter. But I wouldn't confuse marketing excellence with engineering excellence. CDC and IBM had one each -- opposite ones. paul From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Thu Apr 8 09:10:29 2004 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: <16501.23281.391000.972054@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16500.42071.900000.152265@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <16501.23281.391000.972054@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040408100948.01f9ab48@pop-server> At 10:00 AM 4/8/2004, you wrote: >if he claims that marketing doesn't matter I remember a saying that was used at IBM years ago "Nothing happens until somebody sells something" > ================================= Gene Ehrich gehrich@tampabay.rr.com From cb at mythtech.net Thu Apr 8 09:10:38 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: mail server Message-ID: >Sources for all 3 are available. Amavisd and SpamAssassin are in Perl. Great... THANKS! -chris From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Apr 8 09:14:54 2004 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:44 2005 Subject: OT: mail server In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200404081011796.SM02976@bobdev> > that way once it is running, I can just leave it running and not have to worry about regular updates If one of your goals is to eradicate as much junk as you can, then whatever system you use, at first it will probably do a good job. But over time, the junk senders will keep finding new ways of getting through the content filters. So you'll have to periodically update your filters and/or rules to handle the new spamming methods. Your best bet is to use something that works with the various "blacklists", such as spamcop. Those are always kept current of known spammers, and if your MTA checks against those, you'll filter a major amount of junk right off the bat, and since the blacklist checks are realtime, you won't have to periodically update things. I use the blacklists as my first line of defense, and they catch most of the garbage. If you want to get anal about trying to reject as much as possible, then the header_checks and body_checks of postfix, along with a content filter system such as amavisd-new and spamassassin help. But the blacklists catch the bulk of it (in my setup, anyway). - Bob From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Apr 8 10:37:55 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: mail server In-Reply-To: from chris at "Apr 8, 4 09:41:10 am" Message-ID: <200404081537.IAA15696@floodgap.com> > Although I know Postfix is available for mac68k NetBSD... I just don't > know about amavisd or spamassassin... but I would think as long as it > works with any version of NetBSD, and I can get the source, I should be > able to compile it for mac68k. I've heard of people successfully running these on NetBSD/mac68k. My little IIci uses sendmail, but that's just because I'm One Of Those People (tm). -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- TRUE HEADLINE: Bomb Victims Still Trying To Pick Up The Pieces ------------- From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Apr 8 10:32:04 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: <16501.23281.391000.972054@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: > As a former DEC guy, I certainly know the power of marketing, and the > damage a CEO can do to a company if he claims that marketing doesn't > matter. But I wouldn't confuse marketing excellence with engineering > excellence. CDC and IBM had one each -- opposite ones. My point was not really the marketing aspect (although it is probably the biggest aspect), but the engineering aspect. As someone pointed out, the CDC 6600 does one thing well - speed. The same is true for just about any CDC mainframe. The things, however, were crap in most other aspects. They were not as reliable as IBMs, the operating systems were nothing to brag about, and worst of all, CDC painted themselves into corners every machine the brought out by not making the things easily expandable to the next generation. When the issue came to a head with the 170 line, with customers screaming about "what comes next?", the solution, the 180 line, was a complete kludge. The CDC answer was always "put another bag on the side". I don't know what happened with the line after the 180 machines (Cyber 1000 and 2000 - information on the net is extremely vague), but I would not be suprised if they were kludges as well. IBM did things fairly properly, even if it did take an army of people. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Apr 8 10:38:24 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: IBM System/32 availabe in Spokane, Washington In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > William, perhaps we should do a joint 'Corestore - Federal Signal & > Ironworks' IBM Midrange exhibit for VCF-East? You bring the S/3, I'll bring > S/32, S/34, S/36, and S/38? No, the machine will not be making it. Frankly, I am scared that too much movement will cause great headaches with the wirewrapped backplanes. I was extremely concerned last time when we moved the PDP-12 into the show - a few of the bumps were just a little too big for me. We were lucky - nothing became a "loose wire". I should be able to make it, but I have other machines to bring. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Thu Apr 8 10:40:14 2004 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: OT: mail server In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1gbx18f.1uh9e1d1am7scqM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> chris wrote: > My mail server's hard drive has developed bad blocks. I could fix it, or > I could take this as the sign that I need to get off my butt and move to > a more advanced product. The author of AIMS moved on to write and sell his own product: EIMS. Runs well on old hardware, it also has the feature set you want. But it is not free. But it is one of the least expensive (and simplest to setup) mail servers out there. http://www.eudora.co.nz/ -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com Bright From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Apr 8 11:26:23 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers References: <16501.23281.391000.972054@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <16501.32047.828523.566795@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "William" == William Donzelli writes: >> As a former DEC guy, I certainly know the power of marketing, and >> the damage a CEO can do to a company if he claims that marketing >> doesn't matter. But I wouldn't confuse marketing excellence with >> engineering excellence. CDC and IBM had one each -- opposite >> ones. William> My point was not really the marketing aspect (although it is William> probably the biggest aspect), but the engineering aspect. As William> someone pointed out, the CDC 6600 does one thing well - William> speed. The same is true for just about any CDC William> mainframe. The things, however, were crap in most other William> aspects. They were not as reliable as IBMs, the operating William> systems were nothing to brag about, ... William> IBM did things fairly properly, even if it did take an army William> of people. Well, that's one point of view. The Cybers weren't just the world's best compute engines by a large margin. They also have excellent I/O performance. Show me another 1965 vintage computer that can support timesharing with 600 active users and excellent interactive response time... (I'm talking about the PLATO system here -- which ran 600 users on a 6400, not even a 6600, though the I/O is the same for either.) As for the OS, personally I prefer clean and straighforward over baroque and insecure. Certainly IBM offered the latter. The OS/360 manual clearly showed a nice security hole (simple user application access to supervisor mode) which still worked quite nicely in OS-VS2 on the 370 in 1977 when I tried it at the U of I. (Hint: EXCP SIO appendage.) Perhaps MS learned about OS security from IBM? paul From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Thu Apr 8 11:49:25 2004 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: <16501.32047.828523.566795@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <001701c41d89$73922860$4d4d2c0a@atx> > The Cybers weren't just the world's best compute engines by a large > margin. They also have excellent I/O performance. Yes, but ... > Show me another > 1965 vintage computer that can support timesharing with 600 active > users and excellent interactive response time... (I'm talking about > the PLATO system here -- which ran 600 users on a 6400, not even a > 6600, though the I/O is the same for either.) That was a special-purpose TS application - comparable, say, to airline booking (which I understood that both IBM and Honeywell (and Univac?) managed to do reasonably competently). Those who tried to use "Respond" (I think that is what it was called) for general purpose timesharing on a CDC6600 were oft inclined to dub it "Despond". Tho' I did manage to teach someone BASIC in an afternoon at such a terminal - there were languages other than FTN. (or MNF.) (and yes, the full stops - "periods" to most readers of this group - were very significant) Andy From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Apr 8 11:55:45 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: <16501.32047.828523.566795@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: > The Cybers weren't just the world's best compute engines by a large > margin. They also have excellent I/O performance. Show me another > 1965 vintage computer that can support timesharing with 600 active > users and excellent interactive response time... (I'm talking about > the PLATO system here -- which ran 600 users on a 6400, not even a > 6600, though the I/O is the same for either.) Look at the time period - in the late 1960s, timesharing was a fairly tiny piece of the mainframe market. I would venture to say that at least 95 percent of all mainframe activity in 1968 or so was plain old batch jobs - doing payroll, financial calculations, and so forth. This market demands (it still does) that the machines work "all" the time, don't make mistakes, easy to maintain when they do break, and can be upgraded without too many waves. IBM did a pretty good job on all of these counts. Also, the high end S/360s also had pretty screaming I/O for the time. > As for the OS, personally I prefer clean and straighforward over > baroque and insecure. Certainly IBM offered the latter. The OS/360 > manual clearly showed a nice security hole... Once again, being in a batch environment with very limitted access to anyone that wasn't a priest, security wasn't very much of an issue back then. If something did go wrong with a bit of hacking, any decent mainframe house would just be able to stop, go to the backups, and rerun. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Apr 8 12:10:11 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers References: <16501.32047.828523.566795@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <001701c41d89$73922860$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <16501.34675.735539.958463@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Andy" == Andy Holt writes: >> The Cybers weren't just the world's best compute engines by a >> large margin. They also have excellent I/O performance. Andy> Yes, but ... >> Show me another 1965 vintage computer that can support timesharing >> with 600 active users and excellent interactive response >> time... (I'm talking about the PLATO system here -- which ran 600 >> users on a 6400, not even a 6600, though the I/O is the same for >> either.) Andy> That was a special-purpose TS application - comparable, say, to Andy> airline booking (which I understood that both IBM and Honeywell Andy> (and Univac?) managed to do reasonably competently). Not really. The amount of interaction was 1-2 orders of magnitude higher. Airline reservation systems didn't require per-keystroke processing. But you're right, it certainly is possible to build crummy timesharing systems on any architecture. I don't recognize "Respond" but I remember "telex" on CDC NOS. I also remember (vaguely) "RAX" on IBM 360s... I think we've been arguing the question "did IBM do more or better with the 360 than CDC with the 6600". You can argue that it did, and that some of this comes from having more stuff. (Then again, CDC had at least three high level programming languages and probably more than that...) Perhaps more interesting would be who did better or more on a productivity basis -- stuff per person or stuff per $. paul From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Apr 8 12:25:35 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today Message-ID: <200404081725.KAA28022@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Ben I ment a even power of 2. sorry for the confusion. The post about the packed decimal is actually quite correct. Most banks don't like binary and the really don't like floating point binary. Dwight >From: "ben franchuk" >Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >> Er, I think (or at least interpreted) Tony's point to be why we are >> celebrating this now at 40 (i.e. base 10) when 32 (base 2) is so much >> nerdier? > >How the heck do you get 32 from base 2? >Ben. > > From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Apr 8 11:01:19 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: mail server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040408180119.13afb3b9.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:41:10 -0400 chris wrote: > Although I know Postfix is available for mac68k NetBSD... Postfix is in the NetBSD base system. You just need to switch from sendmail (default MTA) to postfix via mailer.conf(5) / mailwrapper(8). > I just don't know about amavisd or spamassassin... They should be in pkgsrc. cd /usr/pkgsrc/mail/spamassassin && make install -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Apr 8 12:29:31 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: Z80 disassembler for Linux Message-ID: <200404081729.KAA28028@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "der Mouse" > >> A disassembler includes comments, selecting data types, labeling >> branching and entry points and statistical cross referencing ( >> usually as comments in code ). This is often an interactive process. > >Try the disassembler I posted a link to a bit earlier today. (To save >bother: ftp.rodents.montreal.qc.ca:/mouse/disas/src/.) > >It's pretty close to a disassembler in this sense. (It doesn't do >"statistical cross referencing", whatever that is, but a text-save plus >a little sed/awk groveling could probably get it.) I wrote it >specifically to help people figure out what binaries of unknown >provenance were *really* doing. Hi When trying to figure is an entry lable in code is a main routine of just part of a conditional structure, it is nice to know how many time that location was references. If space permits, knowing the addresses that reference that location can help a lot as well. "statistical cross referencing" simply means keeping counts of the number of time a locating is referenced. Dwight From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 8 12:35:26 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: IBM System/32 availabe in Spokane, Washington In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Apr 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > A nice lady in Spokane, Washington has a nice IBM System/32 (working) with > > complete reference manual library and software that she would like to go > > to a good home. > > > > If interested, please contact me and I'll put you in touch with said nice > > lady. > > That is a pretty rare machine. Someone get it. It's tentatively claimed. It should go through but if not I'll go to the next in line. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 8 12:45:17 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: <407546E1.9090605@jcwren.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Apr 2004, J.C. Wren wrote: > Mark Firestone wrote: > > >Heh. You're talking to the kid who got belted for taking apart all the > >radios, televisions, and other eletrical goods in the house when I was five. > >Many of the SCSI select cables are keyed. Some of them are not. I meet > >both kinds of service people, those who got into it because they love > >computers and are interested in how they work, and everybody else. > > > >I think I fall in to the first category, or at least I hope I do. > > > >CALL -151 > > > > > f666g I was wondering how many people would get it if I got a license plate with: 3D0G -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 8 12:51:57 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040408100948.01f9ab48@pop-server> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Apr 2004, Gene Ehrich wrote: > At 10:00 AM 4/8/2004, you wrote: > >if he claims that marketing doesn't matter > > I remember a saying that was used at IBM years ago > > "Nothing happens until somebody sells something" One of the more interesting tidbits I learned last night was that IBM didn't get any orders for the S/360 until almost 3 months after the announcement. They were getting nervous that they'd just sunk $5B into a big dark hole. Then the orders started pouring in at a volume twice than what they had anticipated. They couldn't keep up with production for the first year or so. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 8 12:53:38 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: OT: mail server In-Reply-To: <200404081011796.SM02976@bobdev> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Apr 2004, Bob Lafleur wrote: > If one of your goals is to eradicate as much junk as you can, then whatever > system you use, at first it will probably do a good job. But over time, the > junk senders will keep finding new ways of getting through the content > filters. So you'll have to periodically update your filters and/or rules to > handle the new spamming methods. I still think we should make it legal to hunt spammers down with shotguns (or RPGs for that matter). Maybe we can have Spam Season, open from July 1 through June 30 of the following year. Be vewy vewy quiet. I'm hunting Spammas! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From patrick at VintageComputerMarketplace.com Thu Apr 8 13:01:51 2004 From: patrick at VintageComputerMarketplace.com (Patrick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: OT: mail server In-Reply-To: <20040408111505.4f1ec803.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: > > A web mail component would also be a nice thing if available. > No ideas about that. A friend uses - how was ist called - squirrel mail? Yes, Squirrel Mail! Great tool. IMAP server required, though. --Patrick From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Thu Apr 8 13:14:48 2004 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: <16501.34675.735539.958463@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <000a01c41d95$60dc4f00$4d4d2c0a@atx> > But you're right, it certainly is possible to build crummy timesharing > systems on any architecture. I don't recognize "Respond" but I > remember "telex" on CDC NOS. Ah, yes, ULCC changed from Respond to Telex ... it _was_ an improvement (!) Those must have been the 1st and second time-sharing systems I used (other than 5 minute plays with PDP systems at exhibitions and perhaps a go on the GE system). Andy From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Thu Apr 8 13:51:38 2004 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: References: <6.1.0.6.2.20040408100948.01f9ab48@pop-server> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040408145009.01f4bdc8@pop-server> At 01:51 PM 4/8/2004, you wrote: >One of the more interesting tidbits I learned last night was that IBM >didn't get any orders for the S/360 until almost 3 months after the >announcement. I worked for IBM at the time and if they did not get orders immediately it is because they were not yet accepting orders. Once the window was opened they got over two years of production ordered on the first day ================================= Gene Ehrich gehrich@tampabay.rr.com From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Apr 8 14:05:32 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:20:39 CDT." <00fb01c41ce6$31433380$48406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <200404081905.i38J5Wo21767@mwave.heeltoe.com> "Keys" wrote: >It makes us older I started my programming career on a model 360/25 back in >1969. I was always partial to the 370's that loaded microcode from 8" floppies. Ah, raised floors and cool dry air :-) Didn't IBM invent the floppy to load 370 microcode? -brad From allain at panix.com Thu Apr 8 14:09:25 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: OT++: mail server References: Message-ID: <01ba01c41d9d$032f02a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I still think we should make it legal to hunt spammers > down with shotguns (or RPGs for that matter). Maybe > we can have Spam Season, open ... Anybody remember the name of that 1960's French movie that had this, open season through the streets of some city? It wasn't a horror flick, more an absurdist comedy. John A. Sort of like: Survivor: The Final Frontier From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Apr 8 14:03:15 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: OT++: mail server In-Reply-To: <01ba01c41d9d$032f02a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Apr 8, 04 03:09:25 pm Message-ID: <200404081903.PAA24440@wordstock.com> And thusly John Allain spake: > > > I still think we should make it legal to hunt spammers > > down with shotguns (or RPGs for that matter). Maybe > > we can have Spam Season, open ... > > Anybody remember the name of that 1960's French > movie that had this, open season through the streets > of some city? It wasn't a horror flick, more an absurdist > comedy. There was also a scene in the movie L.A. Story where it was open season on the highway... > > John A. > Sort of like: Survivor: The Final Frontier How about "The Running Man"? :) Cheers, Bryan From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Thu Apr 8 13:56:55 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers References: Message-ID: <00e001c41d9e$f410da80$77414ed5@geoff> I take it this can be sung to the tune of " Early one morning , just as the sun was rising......." ? You didn't mention , but it seems to fit - just . Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 11:29 PM Subject: Re: IBM Engineers > This is dedicated to all those who called out DEC field service for a simple > problem, and wished you hadn't.......... > > It was on a Monday morning > The DEC man came to call, > My system wouldn't boot > There was no prompt at all > He pulled out all my SPC's > To try a new backplane > And I had to get the hardware guys > to put them back again > Oh it all makes work for field service men to do! > > It was on a Tuesday morning > The hardware man came round > He soldered and he fiddled > And he said 'Look what I've found' > 'Your ECOs are years behind' > 'But I'll put it all to rights' > Then he shorted out the power supply > and out went all the lights > Oh it all makes work for field service men to do! > > It was on a Wednesday morning > The power supply came > 'It's newer and it's better' > 'But it works just the same' > He could not fit the unit > without stripping half the rack > then he dropped my boot HDA > so He called Peripherals back > Oh it all makes work for field service men to do! > > It was on a Thursday morning > The HDA came along > with a blocklist and a cable > and a list of what goes wrong > He put it into my drive > It took no time at all > But I had to get the software guys > to come and re-install > Oh it all makes work for field service men to do > > It was on a Friday morning > That Software made a start > With BACKUP and SYSGEN > He configured every part > Every track and every sector > But I found when he was gone > He had overwritten the boot track > and I couldn't turn it on > > On saturday and Sunday They do no work at all > So It was on a Monday morning that the DEC man came to call > > > > > -tony From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Thu Apr 8 14:21:45 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today References: <20040407185427.Y42587@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <00e201c41d9e$f5ff3d00$77414ed5@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 2:55 AM Subject: Re: IBM 360 turns 40 today > > > You missed the point, 40 is base 10, 32 is base 2. > > ... and 42 base 13 is what you get when you multiply 6 by 9 > > Except the man said that wasn't in his mind when he wrote it. Now he's dead , who's to know ? (:^) Geoff. > > > > > From cb at mythtech.net Thu Apr 8 14:29:29 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: OT: mail server Message-ID: >I still think we should make it legal to hunt spammers down with shotguns >(or RPGs for that matter). Maybe we can have Spam Season, open from July >1 through June 30 of the following year. > >Be vewy vewy quiet. I'm hunting Spammas! I do like AOL's recent giveaway. They are giving away the BMW that belongs to a spammer that just successfully sued. They are doing a random drawing of all AOL members, someone gets the car. I guess if it isn't legal to post his head on a spike in front of AOL headquarters as a warning to all other spammers, giving away his car is the next best thing? -chris From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Apr 8 14:40:58 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: <200404081905.i38J5Wo21767@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: > I was always partial to the 370's that loaded microcode from 8" floppies. To be honest, I would rather have a S/370 over an S/360, if I had a choice. > Didn't IBM invent the floppy to load 370 microcode? Yes, basically. I remember walking around one beast (I think a 3081) back about 12 years ago, and seeing the power controller. It was a big six foot box, and sure enough, there was an 8 inch floppy slot. Come to think of it, I wouldn't mind having a 3081 or 3090 either. Or 9201 or 9121. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From allain at panix.com Thu Apr 8 15:18:29 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: OT++: mail server References: <200404081903.PAA24440@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <029f01c41da6$a886ce00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > How about "The Running Man"? :) Respectable, as was "Death Race 2000", but this was another movie. John A. From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Thu Apr 8 15:20:45 2004 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: <00e001c41d9e$f410da80$77414ed5@geoff> Message-ID: <001001c41da6$f9445c40$4d4d2c0a@atx> > I take it this can be sung to the tune of " Early one morning , > just as the > sun was rising......." ? Try the Flanders and Swann song that starts Twas on the Monday morning The gas man came to call ... chorus: It all makes work for the working man to do. Andy > You didn't mention , but it seems to fit - just . > Geoff. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tony Duell" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 11:29 PM > Subject: Re: IBM Engineers > > > This is dedicated to all those who called out DEC field service for a > simple > > problem, and wished you hadn't.......... > > > > It was on a Monday morning > > The DEC man came to call, > > My system wouldn't boot > > There was no prompt at all > > He pulled out all my SPC's > > To try a new backplane > > And I had to get the hardware guys > > to put them back again > > Oh it all makes work for field service men to do! > > > > It was on a Tuesday morning > > The hardware man came round > > He soldered and he fiddled > > And he said 'Look what I've found' > > 'Your ECOs are years behind' > > 'But I'll put it all to rights' > > Then he shorted out the power supply > > and out went all the lights > > Oh it all makes work for field service men to do! > > > > It was on a Wednesday morning > > The power supply came > > 'It's newer and it's better' > > 'But it works just the same' > > He could not fit the unit > > without stripping half the rack > > then he dropped my boot HDA > > so He called Peripherals back > > Oh it all makes work for field service men to do! > > > > It was on a Thursday morning > > The HDA came along > > with a blocklist and a cable > > and a list of what goes wrong > > He put it into my drive > > It took no time at all > > But I had to get the software guys > > to come and re-install > > Oh it all makes work for field service men to do > > > > It was on a Friday morning > > That Software made a start > > With BACKUP and SYSGEN > > He configured every part > > Every track and every sector > > But I found when he was gone > > He had overwritten the boot track > > and I couldn't turn it on > > > > On saturday and Sunday They do no work at all > > So It was on a Monday morning that the DEC man came to call > > > > > > > > > > -tony > From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 8 15:33:37 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040408145009.01f4bdc8@pop-server> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Apr 2004, Gene Ehrich wrote: > At 01:51 PM 4/8/2004, you wrote: > >One of the more interesting tidbits I learned last night was that IBM > >didn't get any orders for the S/360 until almost 3 months after the > >announcement. > > I worked for IBM at the time and if they did not get orders immediately it > is because they were not yet accepting orders. Once the window was opened > they got over two years of production ordered on the first day I'm quoting Fred Brooks, Gene. You can take it up with him if you think his memory is failing him ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Apr 8 15:35:42 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: <00e201c41d9e$f5ff3d00$77414ed5@geoff> References: <20040407185427.Y42587@newshell.lmi.net> <00e201c41d9e$f5ff3d00$77414ed5@geoff> Message-ID: <20040408133215.N61789@newshell.lmi.net> > > ... and 42 base 13 is what you get when you multiply 6 by 9 > > On Thu, 8 Apr 2004, Geoffrey Thomas wrote: > Except the man said that wasn't in his mind when he wrote it. Now he's > dead , who's to know ? > (:^) Of course he wouldn't know that that was in his mind. If he had known, then there wouldn't be much point in buying more hardware from the Magratheans, would there? From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 8 15:37:38 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: OT: mail server In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Apr 2004, chris wrote: > I do like AOL's recent giveaway. They are giving away the BMW that > belongs to a spammer that just successfully sued. They are doing a random > drawing of all AOL members, someone gets the car. I guess if it isn't > legal to post his head on a spike in front of AOL headquarters as a > warning to all other spammers, giving away his car is the next best thing? Haha! That's fantastic! They should put a cardboard cutout of the guy next to the car in the promo ads with his hand up in the air waving and a big stupid grin on his face. Here's an article about it. It's actually a Porsche! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3581435.stm -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From tomj at wps.com Thu Apr 8 15:44:15 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: USPTO computer patent index In-Reply-To: <006401c41c14$0948b4e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <4073020B.60002@citem.org> <006401c41c14$0948b4e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: Really great index! Just break it up into chunks, it does load slow, but it's otherwise a wonderful thing. On Tue, 6 Apr 2004, John Allain wrote: > Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 16:16:24 -0400 > From: John Allain > Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" > > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Subject: Re: USPTO computer patent index > > > As always your comments, suggestions and help are welcome. > > Kinda funky in it's present state. takes just under two minutes to display > (read: display, not download). On this computer that's an estimated 80 > billion clock cycles, or perhaps 4 billion instructions. Amazing that it > works. Yikes. Good luck on a rev.2 Thx for starting this. > > My suggestion: display the default sortation/selection as static html at the > bottom, for something to look at while the CPU chugs. CGI or PHP > would of course offload it all. > > John A. > From tomj at wps.com Thu Apr 8 15:46:55 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: Z80 disassembler for Linux In-Reply-To: <200404072358.QAA27278@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200404072358.QAA27278@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Apr 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > It is interesting that my definition of a disassembler is > quite a bit different than yours. I would call this a code > lister. A disassembler includes comments, selecting data types, COMMENTS!? I'd like to see a disassembler comment code! Humans even are areally bad at this... From mpokorni2000 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 8 15:48:28 2004 From: mpokorni2000 at yahoo.com (Miroslav Pokorni) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers, subject turned into field service practices Message-ID: <009501c41daa$d9339a20$cd563f04@miroslav2> Isn't that where term 'board swappers' comes from? When I was looking for a job in Vancouver, B.C., back in 1976, I was told that Digital's (DEC) recently enacted policy was not to train service personel, they just sent them to customer site and serviceman was on his own. Rational was that few months after they finish training, CDC would hire them out. A year after that, I have seen one of those Digital servicemen trying to fix a PDP11 and that cofirmed the rumour. From spc at conman.org Thu Apr 8 15:50:02 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: OT: mail server In-Reply-To: from "chris" at Apr 08, 2004 09:51:53 AM Message-ID: <20040408205002.DDC4710B1332@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great chris once stated: > > In fact, like you point out, since I want to run on old hardware, I may > be better off going with something that isn't going to expect me to > constantly add to it... that way once it is running, I can just leave it > running and not have to worry about regular updates (probably the single > biggest reason why I won't run Windows based internet servers... they > expect you to do updates too often, I don't have the time/desire to jerk > around with that). As someone who ran a mailserver on old hardware (33MHz 486 with 20M RAM running RedHat 5.2 with a Linux 2.0.39 kernel) I had no problems with it: [root]tower:/root> uptime 10:43pm up 443 days, 22:57, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 [root]tower:/root> A bit sluggish and very relunctant to run *anything* written in Perl, but other than that, running two dozen websites, and email, it chugged along for four years (decommisioned in June of 2003, but had I run it another month or so, the uptime would have wrapped). I would recommend running something *other* than sendmail, if only because sendmail is a piece of Swiss cheese when it comes to security and it's only of *when*, not *if* there is another security hole found. Towards the end I did run Postfix without noticable degredation. > >I haven't run Sendmail in aeons; > > I've heard enough horror stories about Sendmail to know that I probably > don't want to use it. From what I gather, its great, IF you know how to > use it... but if you are new to it, be prepared to move the sacrificial > lambs off the SCSI god alter and onto the Sendmail god alter. > (Ironically, Sendmail is the only *nix mailer I have used already... I'm > running it on both my web servers for handling emails created by web > forms... but I didn't really have to do much to get it up and running, > just a little tweaking to lock it down from the outside) Postfix comes with a "sendmail" replacement, so anything that calls sendmail will run generally without modification, which is quite nice actually. -spc (Oh, and I should mention that the 486 server mentioned aboved *was* colocated at a hosting facility ... ) From mpokorni2000 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 8 16:06:15 2004 From: mpokorni2000 at yahoo.com (Miroslav Pokorni) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 M10 Message-ID: <009b01c41dad$54dddb70$cd563f04@miroslav2> In general, MicroVAX III could handle 64 Meg, though some CPU boards did not have all address lines brought out of Memory Controll Unit pins. Here my memory gets fuzzy, I am not sure whether that was the case only with those 'workstation' types or that was also a case with backplane based machines. There was an outfit that was retrofitting such CPU boards for full range of addresses and I do rememmer whether they were Stateside or in Holland. The largest Digital memory for backplane based MicroVAX III was a 32 MB board, but that came quite late in the life of MicroVAX III. The initial 'Minimum Configuration' shipments of those systems were with 8 Meg, then that was upped to 16 Meg. The 4 Meg board that is mentioned, is probably partially populated 8 Meg layout. However, there were third party boards up to 48 MB. Rational for that corkey size was that customer does not have to trow away original 16 Meg that came with machine and still fit full 64 Meg complement into two slots. From patrick at VintageComputerMarketplace.com Thu Apr 8 16:06:23 2004 From: patrick at VintageComputerMarketplace.com (Patrick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: OT: mail server In-Reply-To: <20040408205002.DDC4710B1332@swift.conman.org> Message-ID: > sendmail is a piece of Swiss cheese when it comes to security and > it's only > of *when*, not *if* there is another security hole found. What server software does this not apply to? --Patrick ;-) From brianmahoney at look.ca Thu Apr 8 15:38:14 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: OT++: mail server References: <01ba01c41d9d$032f02a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <000001c41db0$5fbd2f20$6402a8c0@ralph> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 3:09 PM Subject: Re: OT++: mail server > > I still think we should make it legal to hunt spammers > > down with shotguns (or RPGs for that matter). Maybe > > we can have Spam Season, open ... > > Anybody remember the name of that 1960's French > movie that had this, open season through the streets > of some city? It wasn't a horror flick, more an absurdist > comedy. > > John A. > Sort of like: Survivor: The Final Frontier Might have been Traffic by Jacques Tati From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Apr 8 16:43:48 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: OT: mail server In-Reply-To: References: <20040408205002.DDC4710B1332@swift.conman.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040408172702.04827ec0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Patrick may have mentioned these words: > > sendmail is a piece of Swiss cheese when it comes to security and > > it's only > > of *when*, not *if* there is another security hole found. > >What server software does this not apply to? --Patrick ;-) qmail. There has *never* been a "user-permissions" exploit (as in any user being able to gain any permissions to any other user, including root) and the few bugs that have been found generally just make it die. There was a new bug that was just found in it - if a user sends a mail with a header line longer than 2Gbytes, it'll crash that particular process, and I think the mail is lost to the ether.[1] All other mails will still be delivered fine, tho. Why is the most secure MTA not included with every Linux distro? DJB's license is (at best) wonky, to preserve his codebase & help alleviate techsupport nightmares, and as it's not "Open Source" with fully redistributable binaries, none of the linux vendors (except Gentoo, which compiles stuff on the fly) will touch it. http://www.qmail.org/ && http://cr.yp.to/qmail.html for more info. Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger [1] If you have people sending you 2G Header lines, you have a lot bigger problems than one crashed qmail-smtpd process... -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Apr 8 17:11:39 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: <01f701c41d68$85dacd90$4601a8c0@ebrius> References: <000901c41cb5$5773c640$0500fea9@game> <01f701c41d68$85dacd90$4601a8c0@ebrius> Message-ID: In message <01f701c41d68$85dacd90$4601a8c0@ebrius> "Mark Firestone" wrote: > Heh. You're talking to the kid who got belted for taking apart all the > radios, televisions, and other eletrical goods in the house when I was five. You did that too? Wow. > I meet > both kinds of service people, those who got into it because they love > computers and are interested in how they work, and everybody else. > > I think I fall in to the first category, or at least I hope I do. Same here. I started with electronics - someone gave me an alarm panel ("Group 4" somethingorother) and an old PC. My Uncle showed me how to tear down the PC and do something with it. IIRC I got the machine to POST, then the PSU went bang and took out the motherboard. What did I do? I ripped apart my 486SX PC, reseated all the connectors and ended up with a full wiring map for it. That was fun :) As for the alarm panel, I used that to learn how to desolder. > CALL -151 Hm. You used an Apple II then? Personally, I used a BBC Micro and a Sinclair Spectrum. I preferred the Beeb - 6502 assembler is more logical than Z80, IMO. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Complaints? Write them here legibly [] <- From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Apr 8 17:30:40 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 M10 In-Reply-To: <009b01c41dad$54dddb70$cd563f04@miroslav2> Message-ID: <004b01c41db9$1f32e180$5b01a8c0@athlon> > In general, MicroVAX III could handle 64 Meg, though some CPU > boards did not have all address lines brought out of Memory > Controll Unit pins. Here my memory gets fuzzy, I am not sure > whether that was the case only with those 'workstation' types > or that was also a case with backplane based machines. The "MicroVAX III" is usually taken to mean the MicroVAX 3600 Series (i.e. MicroVAX 3500, MicroVAX 3600, which were the same apart from the size of the box they came in) and the MicroVAX 3800 Series (MicroVAX 3800 and MicroVAX 3900 - again same hardware, different box). All of those could go to 64MB by using 4 16MB memory boards - these were available from DEC, if not from day one, certainly from very early on. I think there was a VAXstation 3500, which was a MicroVAX 3500 with a QDSS colour graphics board set. But that was really just a marketing distinction - you could turn any of the MicroVAX 3500/3600/3800/3900 into a VAXstation by dropping in a set of dragon graphics boards. The VAXstation 3200 was really a MicroVAX 3500 squuezed into a BA23 case with a QDSS (if memory serves correctly). The only reason this would not have managed to get up to 64MB would have been the lack of suitable slots in the backplane. > There > was an outfit that was retrofitting such CPU boards for full > range of addresses and I do rememmer whether they were > Stateside or in Holland. There were outfits that produced their own memory boards, but I think the CMCTL (CVAX memory controller chipset) could not go beyond 64MB anyway (and probably required four banks of memory to do that). So I doubt that any of those 3rd party boards could have done anything "better", other than be cheaper, of course. Nemonix have had a history of tweaking DEC designs to get more out of them. Whether they ever did much with the VLSI machines (MicroVAX 3100/VAX 4000 etc) I don't know. > The largest Digital memory for > backplane based MicroVAX III was a 32 MB board, but that came > quite late in the life of MicroVAX III. The initial 'Minimum > Configuration' shipments of those systems were with 8 Meg, > then that was upped to 16 Meg. The 4 Meg board that is > mentioned, is probably partially populated 8 Meg layout. > However, there were third party boards up to 48 MB. Rational > for that corkey size was that customer does not have to trow > away original 16 Meg that came with machine and still fit > full 64 Meg complement into two slots. It sounds to me like you use "MicroVAX III" to mean MicroVAX 3100 series and VAXstation 3100 series. In that case the early MicroVAX 3100 machines (based on the CVAX chipset) were limited to 32MB; they did indeed have 4MB on board. The VAXstation 3100 Model 3x/4x machines were also limited to 32MB of memory. The Rigel-based VAXstation 3100 Model 76 was also limited to 32MB but used DIMMs rather than memory boards. (The Rigel CPU could have supported more memory, but I think they were shoving the newer CPU into the existing VAXstation design with minimal other changed, so they ended up being limited to the same 32MB as the earlier machines). The intermediate SOC-based MicroVAX 3100-30/40 machines were also limited to 32MB, the Mariah-based MicroVAX 3100-80 could stretch to 72MB and most (if not all) of the rest of the NVAX-based range could squeeze in 128MB. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Apr 8 17:37:40 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <834ea09c4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > Reminds me of the time a system manager at a place I was working ordered > a failed servoid off the site. He wanted to replace every PCB in some > expensive piece of equipment because they all failed diagnositcs. I'd > just turned up, slapped a meter on the 5V line and found it was sitting > at 4.2V.... I've seen that happen. I (once) tried to repair a DIY speech synthesiser; it was suffering from the standard "it worked one minute and now it's dead" problem. Vcc was at 2.1V (it was supposed to be 5V +/- 5%). I pulled the SPO256 and powered up without it and the Vcc came up to 5V. Replaced the '256 and the Vcc plummeted again. Turns out there was a solder whisker on the board, between a Vcc track and a GND track. Pushing the chip in flexed a track slightly and moved the whisker into place over the tracks - removing the chip allowed the whisker to move back and short the power bus. That whisker took me a good half hour to track down - it was thinner than a strand of wire-wrap wire. Of course, after I fixed the synth, I leaned over to plug the interface connector in... and shorted out the PSU's output connector. That did plenty of damage to the PSU, which still needs rebuilding. *sigh* OTOH, I've still got a few SPO256es - all working. I just need some 3.12MHz crystals for them. No, the SPO256es are not for sale :) > On saturday and Sunday They do no work at all > So It was on a Monday morning that the DEC man came to call Very good - thanks. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... I am not young enough to know everything. From spc at conman.org Thu Apr 8 18:05:19 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: OT: mail server In-Reply-To: from "Patrick" at Apr 08, 2004 02:06:23 PM Message-ID: <20040408230519.B8C1F10B1332@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Patrick once stated: > > > sendmail is a piece of Swiss cheese when it comes to security and > > it's only > > of *when*, not *if* there is another security hole found. > > What server software does this not apply to? --Patrick ;-) Heh. Well, some seem to have more holes than others. And sendmail seems to be one of the big culprits when it comes to exploits. -spc (Bind not so much, but still, I wish there was a better alternative to Bind, and djbdns (IMHO) isn't a better alternative ... ) From pat at computer-refuge.org Thu Apr 8 18:08:17 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 M10 In-Reply-To: <004b01c41db9$1f32e180$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <004b01c41db9$1f32e180$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <200404081808.17168.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Thursday 08 April 2004 17:30, Antonio Carlini wrote: > The VAXstation 3200 was really a MicroVAX 3500 squuezed > into a BA23 case with a QDSS (if memory serves correctly). > The only reason this would not have managed to get up to > 64MB would have been the lack of suitable slots in the backplane. Indeed. I've acquired two of them, and they're the only QBUS VAXen I've seen come through Purdue's surplus op. I've managed to collect a MV3400 (in a VAX 4000/200 case) and a VS3520 (the multiprocessor "weird" VAX). I love the fact that you can put more than 2 memory cards in those big cases. :) Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From spc at conman.org Thu Apr 8 18:10:22 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: OT: mail server In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040408172702.04827ec0@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Apr 08, 2004 05:43:48 PM Message-ID: <20040408231022.89D9910B1332@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Roger Merchberger once stated: > > Why is the most secure MTA not included with every Linux distro? DJB's > license is (at best) wonky, to preserve his codebase & help alleviate > techsupport nightmares, and as it's not "Open Source" with fully > redistributable binaries, none of the linux vendors (except Gentoo, which > compiles stuff on the fly) will touch it. And it requires the creation of six user accounts *just* to run the mail system, plus it has a different management program than inetd (or xinetd) to make it annoying for Unix admins (okay, *this* Unix admin). Also, it's support for virtual domains is ... kludgy (from what I remember). -spc (Postfix, on the other hand, it quite nice ... ) From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Apr 8 18:35:35 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:45 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: <200404081905.i38J5Wo21767@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <00fb01c41ce6$31433380$48406b43@66067007> <200404081905.i38J5Wo21767@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <20040408233535.GA4241@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Apr 08, 2004 at 03:05:32PM -0400, Brad Parker wrote: > > "Keys" wrote: > >It makes us older I started my programming career on a model 360/25 back in > >1969. > > I was always partial to the 370's that loaded microcode from 8" floppies. We were still doing that with our 4331 at Software Results in 1985. I remember the day that the floppy disc died... too many reads had worn the oxide off the mylar. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 08-Apr-2004 23:32 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -76.5 F (-60.3 C) Windchill -108.7 F (-78.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 7.4 kts Grid 079 Barometer 672.4 mb (10913 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Apr 8 18:40:06 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: Z80 disassembler for Linux In-Reply-To: References: <200404072358.QAA27278@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20040408234006.GB4241@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Apr 08, 2004 at 01:46:55PM -0700, Tom Jennings wrote: > On Wed, 7 Apr 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > > It is interesting that my definition of a disassembler is > > quite a bit different than yours. I would call this a code > > lister. A disassembler includes comments, selecting data types, > > COMMENTS!? I'd like to see a disassembler comment code! Humans > even are areally bad at this... I'm working with a tool that decompiles Z-Machine binaries (think "Zork") into Inform source code. It injects comments into the output code when you describe enum data types. Since decompiling is an iterative process, one of the features I want to add to this tool is comments in the control file that are copied verbatim to the output source file. It puts the burden on the person running the decompiler to understand the output, but it would then be _possible_ to have commented output. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 08-Apr-2004 23:32 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -76.5 F (-60.3 C) Windchill -108.7 F (-78.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 7.4 kts Grid 079 Barometer 672.4 mb (10913 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 8 18:18:46 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: <01d801c41d63$29dfff10$4601a8c0@ebrius> from "Mark Firestone" at Apr 8, 4 01:15:17 pm Message-ID: > > On which planet have you been living for the last 20 years???? > > > > I've never met a field servoid who had any sort of clue whatsoever about > > the operation and troubelshooting of computers -- they just replace > > seemingly random parts until the fault goes away. Certainly I've never > > seen oue use a multimeter, let alone a 'scope... > > Heh. I've been stuck in the deal. I used to be one of three Macintosh > field service engineers at Arizona State University. You are _not_ a field servoid! Yes, there are people who know how to fix computers. Many of them are on this list, others are on another private mailing list that I frequent. None of them are field servoids :-). Let me see if I can explain the difference : Field servoids : -- Replace random parts until the problem appears to go away Real computer repairers : -- Use a 'scope, multimeter, logic analyster, etc to actually find the cause of the fault -- Are not happy replacing a part unless they can show that was the cause of the fauly -- Regard schematics, microcode source listings, firmware source listings, databooks, etc as light bedtime reading. [1] -- Write the service manual if none exists [2] -- Make special tools and test boards, etc as appropriate [3] [1] What, you mean you don't have a pile of service manuals by your bed :-) [2] This was certainly done with the HP9100, 9810, and 9830... [3] How else do you get the pullers to repair the card readers in the 9100 and 9810? All of [1]. [2]. [3] apply to at least one person on this list :-). I believe, BTW, that I am more of a 'Real Computer Repairer' than a 'Field Servoid', but I'll let others be the judge of that. > > We used to *really* fix things, and I'm sure Apple would have been really > upset if they knew that we used to really fix things, because it cost them a I doubt very much if Apple would approve of what I did to my Mac+ (repaired it to component level), if IBM would approve of what I did to this PC/AT (it's got extra chips and kludge-wires soldered to the motherboard), or if HP would approve of what I do to 9100s and 98x0s. Still, it's not for them to approve :-) > lot of lost revenue in parts. I used to carry a multimeter around with me, > so there. (; When I go to HPCC meetings I carry a multimeter and a logicdart. So there ^2 :-) :-) :-) > > > I was once taught that the really good troubleshooter is the guy who > > makes some measurements, thinks _a lot_ about the problem, and then > > replacees exactly one part, and the machine works again for 10 more > > years. I am not that good! > > Rules me out as well. I have to tell you, I'm self taught at all of this. FWIW, I am entirely self-taught. I have never had one official lesson or course in electronics or computing. I have no electronics or computing qualifications at all. IMHO self-taught people are often the best. They _want_ to know something so they make darn sure they understand it properly. They don't give up until they do... > This a hobby that got out of hand. My favorite comment I ever got from a > customer was, "we like you because you don't make stuff up. If you don't > know the answer, you tell us." There is nothing wrong with not knowing something. Heck, I know very little, and am quite happy to admit it. There is also nothing wrong with making mistakes. I'll admit to that too. If you claim to have never made a mistake you're either a liar or have never done anything. Of course you try to be careful when working on an irreplaceable machine (like an HP95C, and yes, I have repaired one of those, and no it's not mine), or when working with an irreplacable disk or tape. But yes, I'll even admit to have occasionally corrupted the only known copy of something while trying to back it up, and then having to spend a good few days undoing the mess I made. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 8 18:21:14 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: <01f701c41d68$85dacd90$4601a8c0@ebrius> from "Mark Firestone" at Apr 8, 4 01:53:41 pm Message-ID: > > Heh. You're talking to the kid who got belted for taking apart all the > radios, televisions, and other eletrical goods in the house when I was five. Well, I can't remember the first mains shock I received. I think I was less than 2 years old -- certainly I couldn't really walk or talk. I'd manageds to unscrew some electrical device without unplugging it first. I think at that point my parents realised that I was going to be an electical/electronic person (possibly even a hacker...) What worries me is that there are people who work on electronics, computer hardware, etc who didn't grow up taking things apart and tryign to work out how they operate... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 8 18:46:48 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Apr 8, 4 10:45:17 am Message-ID: > I was wondering how many people would get it if I got a license plate > with: > > 3D0G I darn well ought to remember it, but I don't. I remember it's a command to the Apple ][ monitor to execute ('Go') from address 03D0 -- is that the re-entry point for BASIC or soemthing? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 8 18:51:08 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: <00e001c41d9e$f410da80$77414ed5@geoff> from "Geoffrey Thomas" at Apr 8, 4 07:56:55 pm Message-ID: > > I take it this can be sung to the tune of " Early one morning , just as the > sun was rising......." ? Well, I suppose it _could_... It's actually a filk of Flanders and Swann 'The gas man cometh'. I am not going to type out the original here (for all I have the songbook alongside me...) but the original is something like Monday : Gas man comes to call as I can't turn the gas tap. He pulls out all the skirting boards Tuesday : Carpenter comes to put skirting boards back, nails through a cable Wednesday : Electrican comes, puts foot through window trying to reach the fusebox Thursday : Glazier comes to fix window, burns paint off wall with the blowlamp Friday : Painter comes to paint the wall, but also paints over the gas tap, so I can't turn it on. Repeat :-)... > You didn't mention , but it seems to fit - just . > Geoff. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 8 19:09:13 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: <834ea09c4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> from "Philip Pemberton" at Apr 8, 4 11:37:40 pm Message-ID: > > In message > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > > Reminds me of the time a system manager at a place I was working ordered > > a failed servoid off the site. He wanted to replace every PCB in some > > expensive piece of equipment because they all failed diagnositcs. I'd > > just turned up, slapped a meter on the 5V line and found it was sitting > > at 4.2V.... > I've seen that happen. I (once) tried to repair a DIY speech synthesiser; it The PSU problem I mentioned was actually due (as ever) to dried-up electrolytics on the output side of the PSU. Yes, I ended up having to fix it... > was suffering from the standard "it worked one minute and now it's dead" > problem. Vcc was at 2.1V (it was supposed to be 5V +/- 5%). I pulled the > SPO256 and powered up without it and the Vcc came up to 5V. Replaced the '256 > and the Vcc plummeted again. Turns out there was a solder whisker on the > board, between a Vcc track and a GND track. Pushing the chip in flexed a > track slightly and moved the whisker into place over the tracks - removing Evil!!!! > the chip allowed the whisker to move back and short the power bus. That > whisker took me a good half hour to track down - it was thinner than a strand > of wire-wrap wire. Of course, after I fixed the synth, I leaned over to plug > the interface connector in... and shorted out the PSU's output connector. > That did plenty of damage to the PSU, which still needs rebuilding. *sigh* > OTOH, I've still got a few SPO256es - all working. I just need some 3.12MHz > crystals for them. No, the SPO256es are not for sale :) I used to use 3MHz xtals (available from RS components). Gave a somewhat low-pitched output, but it was useable. Most SPO256s will work at 3.2768MHz, which is another easy-to-find xtal frequency. Finding 3.12MHz xtals was almost imposible in my experience... I have at least one CTS256 chip in stock. This is a programmed microctroller (TMS7000/PIC7000 series IIRC) that connects to an SPO256 and which does text-to-speech conversions. It takes a serial or parallel ASCII input IIRC. I used one for the IMS (Interactive message system) terminal for my CoCo 2 that I had on my door as a student so people could leave me messages (the speech syntheiser for output and the keyboard from an Atari 400 -- selected as there were no keycaps to get 'borrowed' for input). Of course the CoCo's own speech/sound cartridge contains an SPO256, an AY-3-891x (I thin 8913, but I would have to find the schematics) and a microcontroller (8048 I think) which does both text-to-speech and allows you to control the AY-3-8913 sound chip. Interesting design... -tony From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 8 19:20:46 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: New vintage computing publication In-Reply-To: <20040409001211.73225.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Apr 2004, Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter wrote: > The first thing I did as the new editor is change the > name. I think "Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter" > is more intuitive and will help attractive people who > aren't necessarily familiar with our growing hobby. But please keep in mind that you don't necessarily have to be attractive to enjoy the newsletter. Even ugly people will like it! :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From evan947 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 8 19:24:09 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: New vintage computing publication In-Reply-To: <20040409001211.73225.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040409002409.48956.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> >>>>> will help attractive people LOL, of course I meant "help ATTRACT people"... sorry about the typo! As I said we will make mistakes. :) --- Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Having conferred with Jay West, I'd now like to > introduce the readers of this mailing list to a new > publication, the Computer Collector E-Mail > Newsletter. > > A few of you already know me as evan947@yahoo, the > guy > who collects handhelds/PDAs. More than a few of you > know Michael Nadeau, formerly of Byte magazine, who > founded the Classic Tech E-Letter a few years ago. > > Meanwhile, I and Sellam Ismail (who EVERYONE knows) > pondered starting a print magazine for the hobby > last > fall. Ultimately we decided the hobby just isn't > big > enough yet to support that. > > Instead, early this year Mike handed over the reigns > of his newsletter to me. For those who don't know > me, > besides being a computer collector, I (like Mike) am > a > veteran technology reporter. Paid my dues at > Gannett > (which owns USA Today and other papers), was a staff > engineer at a product review lab for telecom gear, > and > spent 3.5 years at eWeek (formerly PC Week.) I'm 29 > and grew up on Apple and Atari. > > The first thing I did as the new editor is change > the > name. I think "Computer Collector E-Mail > Newsletter" > is more intuitive and will help attractive people > who > aren't necessarily familiar with our growing hobby. > > I also changed some of the fundamentals. Before, > the > newsletter had infrequent publishing, and in each > issue an attempt was made to cover all of the news > out > there. That's a difficult way to run things. So > now, > the newsletter is published every Monday. Also, in > every issue we have one main article (news, opinion, > etc.), vs. trying to be a comprehensive news outlet > every single week. > > By "we" I mean myself, Mike, Sellam, and author > Christine Finn (Christine's known for writing the > book > "Articacts: An archeologist's year in Silicon > Valley"), and Erik Klein, who runs > www.vintage-computer.com. > > Of course we did not want to overlap with this > mailing > list. Tech tips are clearly this list's domain. So > with the newsletter we're sticking to the root word: > news. To be crystral-clear, we're not a forum, and > we're not going to duplicate existing efforts. > > We also didn't want to duplicate fragment the > existing > online classified ads and marketplaces of Sellam's > and > Erik's web sites. So instead they each send me > their > top three or four ads on alternate weeks, which I > publish in the newsletter. Along with the ads > there's > a link that says "click here for more," taking > readers > to their respective sites. > > So as you can see, we've revamped the old Classic > Tech > E-Letter into something that's fresh, consistent, > and > clearly carving out its own niche. > > Besides the few of us behind the scenes, we also > solicit guest writers. For example, Visicalc legend > Dan Bricklin gave us a column, as did the Digibarn's > Bruce Damer. Macintosh inventor Jef Raskin did an > interview with us. We interviewed the CTO of > Hewlett-Packard's printer division, and even IBM's > David Bradley -- better known as the guy who > invented > Ctrl-Alt-Delete. We also went to suburban > Philadelphia to write about a video game conference. > > We currently have about 450 subscribers. On our > informational site, which is > news.computercollector.com, there is additional > content. There's a computer history bookstore, a > small but growing page of tales from collectors, an > events calendar, a summary of our articles to date, > and yes, some lame Google ads to help us pay for the > hosting. > > Anyway, the newsletter is FREE, and if you subscribe > we promise to never, ever give away your email > address > or send you spam. We also would love to have some > of > you write guest columns. The slate is wide open; > write about anything you're passionate about in the > hobby. If you're not a writer, then just send us > your > ideas for articles, and/or news we should be aware > of. > > Sometimes, we'll make factual mistakes, and we > promise > to be vigilant about identifying and correcting > those. > As I told Sellam, I respect and fear that most of > the > readers of the classiccmp lists know way more about > computer history than I ever will. So please bear > with us when, not if, we mess up. > > Thanks for taking this time to read this long > message. > To subscribe to the newsletter, go to our site > (again, that's news.computercollector.com), click > the > subscribe link, and just put in your email address. > > Thanks again, > > Evan Koblentz > > PS -- I live in Cambridge, Massachusetts. If you > visit the area and want to chat about vintage > computing over a drink, I'm always interested. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Apr 8 19:39:21 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: Z80 disassembler for Linux Message-ID: <200404090039.RAA28260@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Ethan Dicks" > >On Thu, Apr 08, 2004 at 01:46:55PM -0700, Tom Jennings wrote: >> On Wed, 7 Apr 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >> >> > It is interesting that my definition of a disassembler is >> > quite a bit different than yours. I would call this a code >> > lister. A disassembler includes comments, selecting data types, >> >> COMMENTS!? I'd like to see a disassembler comment code! Humans >> even are areally bad at this... > >I'm working with a tool that decompiles Z-Machine binaries (think "Zork") >into Inform source code. It injects comments into the output code when you >describe enum data types. Since decompiling is an iterative process, one >of the features I want to add to this tool is comments in the control file >that are copied verbatim to the output source file. It puts the burden on >the person running the decompiler to understand the output, but it would >then be _possible_ to have commented output. > >-ethan > Hi Ethan I add comments after the decompiling with a merge. The control file just has code start addresses and data block types/addresses. I even deal with labels in a separate file that is later merged to form the complete output file. I even put data in a separate file from the code. I like the idea of just merging it all when done. The disadvantage of this is that only computer generated comments exist on the same line as the code or labels ( like the counts of how many times a label was used ). Human comments are always on separate lines. This is all controlled by the sorted address fields. Comments and labels are attached to specific addresses that are used during the merge of the various files. This way, the comments are not part of the control file ( no specific advantage here ) but by sorting before merging, disassembled code, comments and labels don't need to be placed in the output files in any specific order. Comments only need to have an address to show order. Order of these sub pieces that may have the same address is controlled by the merge order. Comments can be easily extracted from an edited list file by looking for text that doesn't have address. One simply uses the next address after this text for the next iteration. Comments are most easily added this way to the previous output list file and feed back for the next iteration and future iterations by placing them in the comment file. The comment file also has the advantage that it can later be edited to enhance comments or rearrange lines within comments( remember a comment can be multiple lines with the same address ). I used the DOS sort ( 64K limit fixed by splitting files ) and my own merge that takes any size files. It is all handled in a batch file so I just take a break while it runs. Dwight From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 8 19:54:57 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: IBM 360 turns 40 today In-Reply-To: <200404081905.i38J5Wo21767@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Apr 2004, Brad Parker wrote: > Didn't IBM invent the floppy to load 370 microcode? Yes (invent floppy to load microcode...was it in fact the 370 for which it was invented?) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pat at computer-refuge.org Thu Apr 8 19:57:22 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200404081957.22578.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Thursday 08 April 2004 18:21, Tony Duell wrote: > Well, I can't remember the first mains shock I received. I think I > was less than 2 years old -- certainly I couldn't really walk or > talk. I'd manageds to unscrew some electrical device without > unplugging it first. I think at that point my parents realised that I > was going to be an electical/electronic person (possibly even a > hacker...) > > > What worries me is that there are people who work on electronics, > computer hardware, etc who didn't grow up taking things apart and > tryign to work out how they operate... Or, as I like to say "you shouldn't be an engineer if you haven't been shocked by mains current as a kid." According to my parents, I'd managed to shock myself enough when I was young to need to be taken to the hospital. I guess I still haven't learned. :) http://computer-refuge.org/toys/60kV-spark-1.jpg For those without a JPEG-enabled viewing device, it's a picture of what used to help generate X-rays and will become a jacobs ladder when I get some spare time back. :) Truthfully, it was probably closer to 45kV peak (AC) than 60kV, as I don't have enough power available in my offi^W^Wthe location it's at for it. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Apr 8 20:13:26 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Apr 9, 4 00:51:08 am" Message-ID: <200404090113.SAA02450@floodgap.com> > It's actually a filk of Flanders and Swann 'The gas man cometh'. Now that is a very funny song. Myself, I always remember, it "must have been someone he ate!" -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- When weaving nets, all threads count. -- Charlie Chan ---------------------- From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 8 19:58:02 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Apr 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > I was wondering how many people would get it if I got a license plate > > with: > > > > 3D0G > > I darn well ought to remember it, but I don't. I remember it's a command > to the Apple ][ monitor to execute ('Go') from address 03D0 -- is that > the re-entry point for BASIC or soemthing? Yes, the "proper" re-entry point to BASIC through DOS (it makes sure that the DOS hooks are there so that the DOS BASIC commands interpreter will be properly hooked in). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Apr 8 20:29:40 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: a few vax 11/730 tu58 tape images Message-ID: <200404090129.i391TeM24951@mwave.heeltoe.com> In my quest to read every tu58 tape on the planet (one needs a goal :-), I managed to read 3 tu58 tapes today. Naturally in the middle of the 4th tape the controller died. (looks like the rs422 received failed for some reason... humm... digikey to the rescue :-) Anyway, I think I have valid vax 11/730 console and diag tape images. The 730 console tape looks almost pristine except for 2 files added to the end (I wonder if the original "defboo.cmd" has been replaced, but it should be possible to reconstruct it with a little hackery) http://www.heeltoe.com/download/vax/contents http://www.heeltoe.com/download/vax/BE-T173I-ME http://www.heeltoe.com/download/vax/BE-T175I-DE http://www.heeltoe.com/download/vax/BE-T176I-DE BE-T173I-ME "BE-T173I-ME","TU58#34 11725/730 CONSOLE","1982,1984" BE-T175I-DE "BE-T175I-DE","TU58#35 11725/730 DIAG SUPER","PROPERTY OF DEC","1982,1984" BE-T176I-DE "BE-T176I-DE","TU58#36 11725/730 MICRODIAG","PROPERTY OF DEC","1982,1983" I also hacked an ancient CP/M program which reads RT11 disk images to run on linux. It allows one to read the dir, copy a file out, copy a file in, type a file, etc... (it's like 'putr' but only knows rt11) It can be used (on linux anyway) to read the tape images and get files off them. I haven't used it to create a tape image yet, but plan to. http://www.heeltoe.com/download/vax/rt11.tar.gz I should have the drive running again once the UPS man arrives :-) I think I have some 750 console tapes also, which I'll put up as soon as I read them. -brad From dittman at dittman.net Thu Apr 8 20:57:36 2004 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: Z80 disassembler for Linux In-Reply-To: <20040408234006.GB4241@bos7.spole.gov> from "Ethan Dicks" at Apr 08, 2004 11:40:06 PM Message-ID: <20040409015736.EB6757F81@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I'm working with a tool that decompiles Z-Machine binaries (think "Zork") > into Inform source code. It injects comments into the output code when you > describe enum data types. Since decompiling is an iterative process, one > of the features I want to add to this tool is comments in the control file > that are copied verbatim to the output source file. It puts the burden on > the person running the decompiler to understand the output, but it would > then be _possible_ to have commented output. Are you starting with one of the pre-existing decompilers? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Apr 8 22:41:54 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: Zcode disassembler (was Re: Z80 disassembler for Linux) In-Reply-To: <20040409015736.EB6757F81@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <20040408234006.GB4241@bos7.spole.gov> <20040409015736.EB6757F81@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20040409034154.GA24467@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Apr 08, 2004 at 08:57:36PM -0500, Eric Dittman wrote: > > I'm working with a tool that decompiles Z-Machine binaries (think "Zork") > > into Inform source code.... > > Are you starting with one of the pre-existing decompilers? I've been working with "reform"... I have a data file that reconstructs nearly all the functions and globals with reasonable names for "Starcross" and "Planetfall" (I think I don't have 'good' names for 3 functions). Many of the variable names are right out of Infocom source, so it's fairly easy to read. Due to differences between how Inform and ZILCH (Infocom's compiler) generate tables and grammar entries, it's not possible (yet) to compile the generated Inform back into a running binary, but you _can_ see how the game and the parser work. There is (still) a movement afoot to recreate a ZIL compiler. Given how advanced Inform is, it would be a curiosity, but I think it would be interesting (but then again, I've spent so much time poring over the MDL Zork sources that I can _read_ ZIL). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 09-Apr-2004 03:32 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -77 F (-60.6 C) Windchill -113.6 F (-80.90 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8.19 kts Grid 077 Barometer 673.4 mb (10876. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Apr 8 21:52:34 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: Z80 disassembler for Linux References: <200404072358.QAA27278@clulw009.amd.com> <20040408234006.GB4241@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <40760FF2.90405@jetnet.ab.ca> Ethan Dicks wrote: > I'm working with a tool that decompiles Z-Machine binaries (think "Zork") > into Inform source code. It injects comments into the output code when you > describe enum data types. Since decompiling is an iterative process, one > of the features I want to add to this tool is comments in the control file > that are copied verbatim to the output source file. It puts the burden on > the person running the decompiler to understand the output, but it would > then be _possible_ to have commented output. But that is a special case of software decoding. The only software I have seen that did that type of stuff of adding comments, was a program to diss-assemble the PC bios. I belive this was to get around the fact you could not sell a source listing of the PC bios but you could disssemble the ROM had on your AT. > -ethan PS. That still don't help me Win at ZORK! :) From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Apr 9 02:10:14 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9c3bcf9c4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > The PSU problem I mentioned was actually due (as ever) to dried-up > electrolytics on the output side of the PSU. Yes, I ended up having to > fix it... Ugh. I've got an Acorn A4 power supply - I swapped out all the electrolytics, but it's still pretty knackered. It works fine until you try and boot the laptop off it - if the battery is dead, the PSU "flutters" on and off rapidly. Very strange. What really annoys me is that Acorn considered the PSU to be a "non-serviceable unit", so no schematics exist :-( Speaking of which, I still need to get my Jupiter Ace back (and fix it). At least I've got schematics for it. Failing that I suppose I could build a clone - shouldn't be too hard. > I used to use 3MHz xtals (available from RS components). Gave a somewhat > low-pitched output, but it was useable. Most SPO256s will work at > 3.2768MHz, which is another easy-to-find xtal frequency. Finding 3.12MHz > xtals was almost imposible in my experience... I contacted a crystal manufacturer that did a lot of work for radio hams (custom crystals and the like) - they quoted me ?18 + VAT for a 3.12MHz crystal. Eek. At least 3.2768 is a standard value... > I have at least one CTS256 chip in stock. This is a programmed > microctroller (TMS7000/PIC7000 series IIRC) that connects to an SPO256 > and which does text-to-speech conversions. It takes a serial or parallel > ASCII input IIRC. Yep, I've heard of the CTS256. What I want is the text-to-speech algorithm, so I can program a PIC16F628 to replace a CTS256. I will admit one thing though - I'd love to know what the General Instruments LA05-148 is. I've got four SP0256A-AL2 "Narrator Speech Synth" ICs, four LA05-148s (no idea what they are) and four R09864CS-2030s ("(C) CURRAH 1984"). I guess the R09864CS is a ROM, I know the SP0256 is a speech synth, but I'll be damned if I can find any info on the LA05. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Ancient Greeks made dolphin-killing punishable by death. From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Fri Apr 9 02:38:39 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: ot? HP 700/95 Terminal..... In-Reply-To: <200404080038.i380c0r9082661@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <404E7CE0.5080706@theriver.com> <40746438.7040100@theriver.com> <761A3D4C-88E3-11D8-A80B-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> <200404080038.i380c0r9082661@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On Apr 7, 2004, at 5:38 PM, Frank McConnell wrote: > Ron Hudson wrote: >> Do I have to do somthing special for HP terminals to be 'online'? > > Get to where the on-screen function key labels are showing and include > "REMOTE MODE". There should be a * in that label (and preferably no > others, I think). If there's no *, press the corresponding function > key to toggle it. > > It's been a while since I used a 700/9x so don't remember which > of the User and System keys you need to press to get there. > > -Frank McConnell > thanks I'll check this out soon too. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Apr 9 02:48:59 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 M10 In-Reply-To: <004b01c41db9$1f32e180$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <009b01c41dad$54dddb70$cd563f04@miroslav2> <004b01c41db9$1f32e180$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <20040409094859.2b9a98fb.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 23:30:40 +0100 "Antonio Carlini" wrote: > I think there was a VAXstation 3500, which was a MicroVAX > 3500 with a QDSS colour graphics board set. Hmmm. I know of the VAXstation 3520 and 3540. A two respectively four CPU VAX in a BA213 style enclosure with graphics that has nothing in common with the MicroVAX 3500 machines. > The VAXstation 3200 was really a MicroVAX 3500 squuezed > into a BA23 case with a QDSS (if memory serves correctly). Isn't the VAXstation 3200 based on the KA640? The MicroVAX 3500 / 3600 surely is KA650. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From dave04a at dunfield.com Fri Apr 9 05:18:44 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: Z80 disassembler for Linux Message-ID: <20040409101844.F30BFB4AB2@outbox.allstream.net> >>> COMMENTS!? I'd like to see a disassembler comment code! Humans >>> even are areally bad at this... > I add comments after the decompiling with a merge. The >control file just has code start addresses and data block >types/addresses. I even deal with labels in a separate file that >is later merged to form the complete output file. >I even put data in a separate file from the code. >I like the idea of just merging it all when done. >The disadvantage of this is that only computer generated >comments exist on the same line as the code or labels My disassemblers (see my web page) use two control files: One controls how the disassembler views memory blocks, including symbols, block type (code, byte data, word data, reversed word data, strings etc.) The other controls comments blocks. For each block, you provide a memory address (or none=continuation of previous address), and either block or line comments. Block comments are inserted as separate lines. Line comments are appended to the end of the code lines generated by the disassembler. The disassembler can generate the initial memory control file with generated symbol names for addresses which are referenced within the code block. (Sorry - it can't generate initial comments :-) Then in a highly manual and iterative process, you re-run the disassemler over and over again, providing more information in these two files as you "figure it out". The end result (if you stick with it long enough) is an assembly source file indistinguishable from an original source file (often better because many people use more meaningful names and comment better during disassembly then they would when writing original code!) I find having the disassembler inject comments is very useful, as it allows me to re-run the disassembler at any time without losing the comments (very useful in the "oh crap - this block should really be WORD data - not BYTE data) situation. Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. From brad at heeltoe.com Fri Apr 9 06:37:59 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: different 11/44 boxes? Message-ID: <200404091137.i39BbxU28500@mwave.heeltoe.com> Can anyone give a coherent description of the difference pdp 11/44 boxes? (I assume they're all BA11's) I have some 11/44 cpu cards but no box and apparently there are 3 (or more?) different boxes with 3 different power supply styles. -brad From coredump at gifford.co.uk Fri Apr 9 07:58:05 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: Altos ACS-8000 in Bristol, UK In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40769DDD.7080404@gifford.co.uk> Patrick wrote: > A VCM member has posted an Altos ACS-8000 as a "give-away" (free item) for > pickup in Bristol, UK. > > http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=467 That is indeed one of my ads. I've had a message from a collector who should be picking it up tomorrow (Saturday). I've also had a little interest in the other gear, but most of it is still up for grabs. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Apr 9 09:40:52 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: 200LX success Message-ID: <014101c41e40$a8a14ce0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I got two 128mb compact flash cards off ebay, they didn't work in the 200LX either. That left me with it had to be a problem with the 200LX or the compactflash to pcmcia adapter I was using. Went to bestbuy and got a cf->pcmcia adapter and it works fine now. So it would appear the cf->pcmcia adapter that I robbed from an old digital cam was "nonstandard", as it works in the cam. So last night I was able to boot up unix on the 200LX. Like a geek I was giggling all night. Very cool to have a multiuser unix box in my shirt pocket :) Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Apr 9 10:04:27 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: 200LX success In-Reply-To: <014101c41e40$a8a14ce0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <014101c41e40$a8a14ce0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <4076BB7B.5080700@jcwren.com> Jay West wrote: >I got two 128mb compact flash cards off ebay, they didn't work in the 200LX >either. That left me with it had to be a problem with the 200LX or the >compactflash to pcmcia adapter I was using. Went to bestbuy and got a >cf->pcmcia adapter and it works fine now. So it would appear the cf->pcmcia >adapter that I robbed from an old digital cam was "nonstandard", as it works >in the cam. > >So last night I was able to boot up unix on the 200LX. Like a geek I was >giggling all night. Very cool to have a multiuser unix box in my shirt >pocket :) > >Jay > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > Cool! Can I get a 'dd' of your flash card? --jc From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Apr 9 11:57:39 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: Z80 disassembler for Linux Message-ID: <200404091657.JAA28873@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Dave Dunfield" ---snip--- > >I find having the disassembler inject comments is very useful, as it >allows me to re-run the disassembler at any time without losing the >comments (very useful in the "oh crap - this block should really be >WORD data - not BYTE data) situation. > Hi Dave I agree, I think that being able to feed comments back into the disassembler is one of the most important parts, like you. I find that I needed a way to strip the comments from the listing file and not simply type them into a separate file. The method I've been using is maybe to simplified because it doesn't allow inline comments but I've not found this to be all that bad. One can still put one line of comment with each line of code. I expect that the next one I write, I may try to include some method of capturing the comments that are inline with the code as well, though. I originally had a separate file that I'd edit comments into but found that I couldn't make myself do this every time. I wanted to edit the comments into the listing file as I figured things out. Going back and finding the comments to feed back was always a pain. That is why the computer generates the comment file from the listing file, automatically for me. I guess I'm just to lazy. The price was that I needed to make it easy for the computer to find my new comments. Dwight From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 9 12:01:27 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: different 11/44 boxes? In-Reply-To: <200404091137.i39BbxU28500@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200404091137.i39BbxU28500@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: >Can anyone give a coherent description of the difference pdp 11/44 >boxes? (I assume they're all BA11's) > >I have some 11/44 cpu cards but no box and apparently there are 3 (or >more?) different boxes with 3 different power supply styles. > >-brad I'm not positive, but I believe they've all got the same powersupply, and I think the boxes themselves are largely the same. I know the problem I ran into with mine was the mounting hardware, which wasn't the standard, and as a result, no one could figure out how to get it out of the rack. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rcini at optonline.net Fri Apr 9 12:21:48 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: Interfacing TI-74 Message-ID: <000a01c41e57$245b0770$6401a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Hello, all: Does anyone have any idea how to connect a non-TI printer to the port on the TI-74 BasicCalc? The actual printer unit is scarcer than hen's teeth. Googling didn't produce any useful links other than general information sites. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri Apr 9 12:34:04 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 M10 In-Reply-To: <20040409094859.2b9a98fb.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <009b01c41dad$54dddb70$cd563f04@miroslav2> <004b01c41db9$1f32e180$5b01a8c0@athlon> <20040409094859.2b9a98fb.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <200404091234.04494.pat@computer-refuge.org> Jochen Kunz declared on Friday 09 April 2004 02:48 am: > On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 23:30:40 +0100 > > "Antonio Carlini" wrote: > > I think there was a VAXstation 3500, which was a MicroVAX > > 3500 with a QDSS colour graphics board set. > > Hmmm. I know of the VAXstation 3520 and 3540. A two respectively four > CPU VAX in a BA213 style enclosure with graphics that has nothing in > common with the MicroVAX 3500 machines. > > > The VAXstation 3200 was really a MicroVAX 3500 squuezed > > into a BA23 case with a QDSS (if memory serves correctly). > > Isn't the VAXstation 3200 based on the KA640? The MicroVAX 3500 / 3600 > surely is KA650. The VS3200 is a KA650.. I know for sure, because I've had two of them. It also looks like there might have been a VS3500 that was a KA650, unlike the VS3520 that I've got. I've found the "holy VAX hardware specs reference" to be quite useful :) http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/Hardware/Machines/DEC/vax/full.html Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 9 12:40:09 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: <9c3bcf9c4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> from "Philip Pemberton" at Apr 9, 4 08:10:14 am Message-ID: > > In message > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > > The PSU problem I mentioned was actually due (as ever) to dried-up=20 > > electrolytics on the output side of the PSU. Yes, I ended up having to=20 > > fix it... > Ugh. I've got an Acorn A4 power supply - I swapped out all the electrolyt= > ics, > but it's still pretty knackered. It works fine until you try and boot the > laptop off it - if the battery is dead, the PSU "flutters" on and off Have yuou checked _all_ the electrolytics, even the low-value ones? On both sides of the isolation barrier. Have you looked for a current sense resistor that's gone high? > rapidly. Very strange. What really annoys me is that Acorn considered the= > PSU > to be a "non-serviceable unit", so no schematics exist :-( This may mean they didn't actually design it, but bought it in from somebody like Astec who didn't supply schematics. I've seen this before with PSUs, and with things like disk drives. Great pain if you actually have to fix the thing!. > > I have at least one CTS256 chip in stock. This is a programmed=20 > > microctroller (TMS7000/PIC7000 series IIRC) that connects to an SPO256=20 > > and which does text-to-speech conversions. It takes a serial or paralle= > l=20 > > ASCII input IIRC. > Yep, I've heard of the CTS256. What I want is the text-to-speech algorith= > m, > so I can program a PIC16F628 to replace a CTS256. > I will admit one thing though - I'd love to know what the General Instrum= > ents I know the CTS256 was copy-protected (or at least all the ones I have are...). There is some info in the data sheet on the algorithm (it's pretty simple) since you can extend it with your own rules in an external EPROM. I guess I now need to find that data sheet... > LA05-148 is. I've got four SP0256A-AL2 "Narrator Speech Synth" ICs, four > LA05-148s (no idea what they are) and four R09864CS-2030s ("(C) CURRAH > 1984"). I guess the R09864CS is a ROM, I know the SP0256 is a speech synt= > h, > but I'll be damned if I can find any info on the LA05. LA = 'Logic Array'??? Maybe a ULA for address decoding, etc? I assume these are some add-on module for a common home computer (the list of the 3 chips sounds like something Greenweld were selling about 15 years ago...) -tony From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri Apr 9 13:19:41 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: Z80 disassembler for Linux In-Reply-To: <200404091657.JAA28873@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200404091657.JAA28873@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <200404091824.OAA00469@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I agree, I think that being able to feed comments back into the > disassembler is one of the most important parts, like you. I agree too, and that's why mine allows you to add comments. :-) Every address potentially has a comment on the same line, plus an effectively unlimited number of comment lines before and after it. (Yes, they can be both before and after - the reason for having both rather than just one and depending on using "after the previous line" for "before" (or "before the next line" for "after") is that depending on how things are disassembled, the addresses for the previous and next lines may change - and comments are attached to addresses.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Apr 9 13:41:01 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In message ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > Have yuou checked _all_ the electrolytics, even the low-value ones? On > both sides of the isolation barrier. I've replaced all the electrolytics on the LV side that I could see. I've just noticed a 1uF 50V that I missed - I don't think I've got a 1uF 50V 105 deg C in stock though. > Have you looked for a current sense > resistor that's gone high? There is some visible heat damage around some fusible resistors, but they checked out fine. There are two diodes in the vicinity of the FRs that I haven't checked yet. I really need to get this thing back on the bench for testing. > This may mean they didn't actually design it, but bought it in from > somebody like Astec who didn't supply schematics. Looks like that's what happened - the PSU bears the logo of a company called Phihong. What really annoys me is that they went to the trouble of picking a plastic that would shatter when you removed the case screws. Needless to say, the case will no longer hold together - the screw posts shattered when I removed the screws. I hate manufacturers that do that sort of thing. > I know the CTS256 was copy-protected (or at least all the ones I have > are...). Sounds about right. > There is some info in the data sheet on the algorithm (it's > pretty simple) since you can extend it with your own rules in an external > EPROM. I guess I now need to find that data sheet... I think it's available online somewhere, but I'll be damned if I can find it. > LA = 'Logic Array'??? Maybe a ULA for address decoding, etc? That's one possibility - Commodore used an LA05 (with a different number after the dash) in the Magic Voice and Currah used one (again, different ID number) in the Microspeech (aka uSpeech). > (the list of the > 3 chips sounds like something Greenweld were selling about 15 years ago...) That's where I got mine from - I bought one set back in '97, then bought another three sets in 2001, while Gweld were still selling them at ?3 per set. Thanks, -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Where there's a will, there's an Inheritance Tax. From coredump at gifford.co.uk Fri Apr 9 15:13:29 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <407703E9.2000306@gifford.co.uk> Philip Pemberton wrote: > What really annoys me is that they went to the trouble of picking a plastic > that would shatter when you removed the case screws. Needless to say, the > case will no longer hold together - the screw posts shattered when I removed > the screws. I hate manufacturers that do that sort of thing. I've seen that sort of thing happen on wall-wart type PSUs. I think the long-term effect of heat makes the plastic brittle. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Apr 9 15:32:00 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: 200LX success References: <014101c41e40$a8a14ce0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <4076BB7B.5080700@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <035c01c41e71$b5b51de0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> JCWren wrote... > Cool! Can I get a 'dd' of your flash card? > Not necessary. I put Minix on it using the dos filesystem mode so.. ummm well *blush* unix(minix) is running under DOS as a DOS application *running away in shame* It's quite slow, but it's just impressive it can do it at all. Installing Minix was a no brainer. Took about 30 seconds total. Download the 200LX version, put it in a directory on the CF card, and type "boot minix.mnx". Anyways... back to classic computing :) Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From chrisc at addpower.com Fri Apr 9 15:42:24 2004 From: chrisc at addpower.com (Christopher Cureau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: FS/Trade Message-ID: I have an RA61, an RA80 and an RA81 drive that I'd like to part with. I'm not sure of the exact condition of the drives since I don't have the ability to connect them and see whether they work or not. All three are mounted in a rollable rack. What I'd consider for trade is PDP-11 stuff. If you don't want to trade, but want the drives, make an offer. Tell me what you have and we'll see what we can do. :) Location of these drives is Slidell, Louisiana -- about 30 miles north of New Orleans. Cheers, Chris Cureau From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 9 15:45:04 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: different 11/44 boxes? In-Reply-To: <200404091137.i39BbxU28500@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040409164504.00905100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I have an 11/44 but I dont know anything about them. What do you want to know? I THINK it still has the cards in it. I need to dig it out and figure out what's in it and do something with it anyway. Joe At 07:37 AM 4/9/04 -0400, you wrote: > >Can anyone give a coherent description of the difference pdp 11/44 >boxes? (I assume they're all BA11's) > >I have some 11/44 cpu cards but no box and apparently there are 3 (or >more?) different boxes with 3 different power supply styles. > >-brad > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 9 15:42:05 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: from "Philip Pemberton" at Apr 9, 4 07:41:01 pm Message-ID: > > Have yuou checked _all_ the electrolytics, even the low-value ones? On=20 > > both sides of the isolation barrier. > I've replaced all the electrolytics on the LV side that I could see. I've > just noticed a 1uF 50V that I missed - I don't think I've got a 1uF 50V 1= > 05 > deg C in stock though. I think any 1uF 50V (or higher) would do to prove the point :-). > > > Have you looked for a current sense=20 > > resistor that's gone high? > There is some visible heat damage around some fusible resistors, but they Sense resistors are not normally fusible (you don't want them going open-circuit, all hell breaks loose when they do and the output current tries to flow through the current sense transistor's BE junction). > checked out fine. There are two diodes in the vicinity of the FRs that I > haven't checked yet. I really need to get this thing back on the bench fo= > r > testing. > > > This may mean they didn't actually design it, but bought it in from=20 > > somebody like Astec who didn't supply schematics. > Looks like that's what happened - the PSU bears the logo of a company cal= > led > Phihong. Right. Never heard of them... Of course some companies then went and reverse-engineereed the unit to put the info in their service manuals. The Tandy M3 and M4 technical manuals contain what appear to be reverse-engineered schematics of the Astec PSU boards. Well, they claim to be PSU schematics, but actually could never have worked as drawn. I speak from experience, having produced a more accurate (I hope) reverse-engineered schematic. > What really annoys me is that they went to the trouble of picking a plast= > ic > that would shatter when you removed the case screws. Needless to say, the Actually, I object to self-stripping [1] screws going into plastic anyway. [1] A much more accurate description than self-tapping :-) -tony From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Apr 9 17:45:17 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: a few vax 11/730 tu58 tape images Message-ID: <0404092245.AA12151@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Brad Parker wrote: > In my quest to read every tu58 tape on the planet (one needs a goal :-), > I managed to read 3 tu58 tapes today. Nice job. I have downloaded your images and they look fine. Your console tape has microcode version 57. The one on my FTP site is not pristine, but has microcode version 58, so it should have one fewer ucode bug, or at least so one would hope. :-) Of course it's nice to have both. The diag supervisor and microdiag should be quite helpful if anyone has a 730 that's feeling a bit sick. Also the diag supervisor is not specific to the 730, it originates from the 780 and runs on all large VAXen. I will use it as part of the validation process for the new VAX CPU I'm building. (Even if we do some day manage to pry AXE out of HP with the help of some KGB death squad, the VAX should still pass the basic diag first before attempting a random test like AXE.) I'm still waiting for the TU58s that I've recently bought on eBay that have the rest of the diags. Brad, I'll talk to you in private about them. > I also hacked an ancient CP/M program which reads RT11 disk images to > run on linux. Those who prefer the original UNIX to Linux can save the effort and use the standard arff(8) console media manipulation utility that comes standard with all VAX UNIX distributions. You don't need to actually run UNIX on the large VAX in order to use it, it'll happily run on a MicroVAX running 4.3BSD-Quasijarus and operate on an image file. MS From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Apr 9 18:04:59 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: a few vax 11/730 tu58 tape images Message-ID: <0404092304.AA12185@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Forgot to ask one more thing... Brad Parker wrote: > "BE-T173I-ME","TU58#34 11725/730 CONSOLE","1982,1984" > "BE-T175I-DE","TU58#35 11725/730 DIAG SUPER","PROPERTY OF DEC","1982,1984" > "BE-T176I-DE","TU58#36 11725/730 MICRODIAG","PROPERTY OF DEC","1982,1983" Any idea on where do the "TU58#34" and 35 and 36 numbers came from? Are they on the tape label? Does the label look original DEC or secondary? Do those numbers (34/35/36) appear printed by DEC or by someone else? These numbers are also written on the tapes themselves as each tape contains a zero-length marker file named TU58xx.VI0, with xx being 34, 35 or 36. But it would be strange for such numbers to come from DEC: I don't think DEC thought of their diags as being "TU58 #suchandsuch", I think they thought of them as being 2-5-2 numbers (the ones starting with BE- in this case). > I think > I have some 750 console tapes also, which I'll put up as soon as I read > them. I have a seemingly-pristine 750 console tape image on my FTP site. It came from an Ultrix source tree IIRC. It would be nice to compare it with what you have. MS From brad at heeltoe.com Fri Apr 9 18:29:02 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: a few vax 11/730 tu58 tape images In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 09 Apr 2004 16:04:59 PDT." <0404092304.AA12185@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200404092329.i39NT2l31957@mwave.heeltoe.com> Michael Sokolov wrote: >Forgot to ask one more thing... > >Brad Parker wrote: > >> "BE-T173I-ME","TU58#34 11725/730 CONSOLE","1982,1984" >> "BE-T175I-DE","TU58#35 11725/730 DIAG SUPER","PROPERTY OF DEC","1982,1984" >> "BE-T176I-DE","TU58#36 11725/730 MICRODIAG","PROPERTY OF DEC","1982,1983" > >Any idea on where do the "TU58#34" and 35 and 36 numbers came from? Are they >on the tape label? Does the label look original DEC or secondary? Do those >numbers (34/35/36) appear printed by DEC or by someone else? These numbers ar >e >also written on the tapes themselves as each tape contains a zero-length marke >r >file named TU58xx.VI0, with xx being 34, 35 or 36. But it would be strange fo >r >such numbers to come from DEC: I don't think DEC thought of their diags as bei >ng >"TU58 #suchandsuch", I think they thought of them as being 2-5-2 numbers (the >ones starting with BE- in this case). The #'s are straight from the label, which sure looks like proper DEC to me. I can send you a jpg if you like :-) The info above is basically the 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th line of text from the label. >> I think >> I have some 750 console tapes also, which I'll put up as soon as I read >> them. > >I have a seemingly-pristine 750 console tape image on my FTP site. It came fr >om >an Ultrix source tree IIRC. It would be nice to compare it with what you have >. will do! -brad From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Apr 9 20:38:53 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: truckload of PDP stuff Message-ID: <000a01c41e9c$94ecb9d0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Did anyone check on this and follow up (My previous post about a truckload of PDP parts & cpus). The guy apparently put it up on ebay? Jay From dan at ekoan.com Fri Apr 9 20:53:25 2004 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: truckload of PDP stuff In-Reply-To: <000a01c41e9c$94ecb9d0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <000a01c41e9c$94ecb9d0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040409215220.04d791a0@enigma> At 09:38 PM 4/9/04, you wrote: >Did anyone check on this and follow up (My previous post about a truckload >of PDP parts & cpus). The guy apparently put it up on ebay? I sent an e-mail to him through eBay, asking about setting up a time to inspect the contents of the truck, but I haven't received a response from him. Cheers, Dan From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Apr 9 20:57:33 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: truckload of PDP stuff References: <000a01c41e9c$94ecb9d0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <6.0.3.0.2.20040409215220.04d791a0@enigma> Message-ID: <001201c41e9f$30d7f830$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> yes but I posted this stuff to this list before he put it on ebay and someone said they were contacting him :\ J ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Veeneman" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 8:53 PM Subject: Re: truckload of PDP stuff > At 09:38 PM 4/9/04, you wrote: > >Did anyone check on this and follow up (My previous post about a truckload > >of PDP parts & cpus). The guy apparently put it up on ebay? > > I sent an e-mail to him through eBay, asking about setting up a time to > inspect the contents of the truck, but I haven't received a response from him. > > > Cheers, > > Dan > > From dvcorbin at optonline.net Fri Apr 9 22:37:28 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:46 2005 Subject: truckload of PDP stuff In-Reply-To: <000a01c41e9c$94ecb9d0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: I also attempted contact via e-Mail...multiple times...no response. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jay West >>> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 9:39 PM >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: truckload of PDP stuff >>> >>> Did anyone check on this and follow up (My previous post >>> about a truckload of PDP parts & cpus). The guy apparently >>> put it up on ebay? >>> >>> Jay >>> From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Apr 10 06:54:18 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: SSMEC? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040410075418.00853a10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone know of any computer related meaning for the name/acronym SSMEC? I've found some Honeywell H316 parts that are marked 'for program SSMEC'. I've found one definition of SSMEC but the meanng seems to be a little too fantastic. Joe From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Apr 10 08:40:59 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: Acorn A4 PSU (was Re: IBM Engineers) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <27d8769d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message you wrote: > > I've replaced all the electrolytics on the LV side that I could see. I've > > just noticed a 1uF 50V that I missed - I don't think I've got a 1uF 50V 1= > > 05 > > deg C in stock though. > > I think any 1uF 50V (or higher) would do to prove the point :-). I've just swapped out the cap with a cheapo 85C 1uF and the PSU is working again. Now I need to find some way of repairing the casing. Two of the screw-posts seem to be OK, but the other two have disintegrated. Only one of the two remaining screw-posts seems to work - the screw keeps slipping out of the other. So on the one hand I've got a working Acorn A4 power supply. On the other hand, the casing is knackered :-/ Thanks. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.... From RCini at congressfinancial.com Thu Apr 8 08:31:03 2004 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: Search engines for networks? Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA465F@MAIL10> This looks like exactly what I'm looking for! Thanks for the pointer. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Teo Zenios Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 2:52 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Search engines for networks? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cini, Richard" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 3:10 PM Subject: RE: Search engines for networks? > Alex: > > I actually thought of this but since the price is quoted as "contact > a sales representative" I felt it would cost more than "free". > > This is a home network where I collect all of my stuff. 650 > directories and about 9,000 files in 17gb, not including my MP3 archive > which is another 13gb. I know this only because I just moved it to another > server (ProLiant 1600, dual P-III/550 and 91gb RAID5 running NT Server and > sitting in an old DEC 42U rack). Probably overkill but the price was right. > > Don't laugh...I collect a lot of crap. There's also some good stuff > in there, too. I've imaged my entire collection of PC floppy disks and I'm > working on system ROMs. Anyone need PC Tools 7?? How about the True Type > Font Pack for Windows 3.1? QEMM? How about Windows 1.0? > > I also have tons of utilities, MAME stuff, instruction manuals, a > mirror of my Web site, the SourceSafe database for my projects. > > Problem is that I can't find certain things when I need to. > > Rich > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of meltie > Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 2:05 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; Paul Berger > Subject: Re: Search engines for networks? There is a nice little program call whereisit that does the following: PROGRAM HIGHLIGHTS ================== Suitable for beginners and advanced users ----------------------------------------- Very adjustable program with many options for power users, as well as easy to use with default settings and Quick-Setup Wizard for all those who don't want to get their hands dirty. Explorer-like interface ----------------------- Easy to use, familiar Explorer-like user interface with adjustable toolbar, columns to choose between, and extensive use of object menus (right mouse click). Full multi-language support is included for international users. Wide media and file system support ---------------------------------- Where is it? supports any media type Windows can use, including diskettes, CD-ROMs, removable disks like iomega Zip and Jaz, hard disks, network drives etc. It will recognize by name and collect useful data for most of them, too. 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From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Thu Apr 8 09:20:06 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: IBM Engineers In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040408100948.01f9ab48@pop-server> References: <16500.42071.900000.152265@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <16501.23281.391000.972054@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <6.1.0.6.2.20040408100948.01f9ab48@pop-server> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040408101447.025c1b80@24.161.37.215> Even better, once heard a saying for a retiring IBM'er at my father's job (sub-contractor for Power Parallel Systems Div. in mid 90's) - "There's no tomorrow without today, unless you're Fred, getting his final pay, he gets out of the cave, an AS400 slave, his tomorrow starts today." They then wheeled out this cake that had a baker's rendition of an AS400 towering out of it. Odd, but semi-amusing. This occurred at IBM East Fishkill. -John Boffemmyer IV At 10:10 AM 4/8/2004, you wrote: >At 10:00 AM 4/8/2004, you wrote: >>if he claims that marketing doesn't matter > >I remember a saying that was used at IBM years ago > >"Nothing happens until somebody sells something" > > > >================================= >Gene Ehrich >gehrich@tampabay.rr.com ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From jdbryan at acm.org Thu Apr 8 10:01:45 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: HP 64000 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040408074756.00895c20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <200404071722.i37HMFk3017882@mail.bcpl.net> Message-ID: <200404081501.i38F1krQ028069@mail.bcpl.net> On 8 Apr 2004 at 7:47, Joe R. wrote: > The 64000 and 64100 are very different machines. Please elaborate. Quoting from the "HP 64000 Logic Development System Selection and Configuration Guide" (July 1985): NUMBERING SYSTEM Following is a breakdown of the 64000 System Numbering scheme. The product line is 64XXX in which XXX is: 001-099: Mainframe Options 100-149: Mainframes 150-169: Emulation Memory and Controllers 190-299: Emulation Modules 300-350: Internal Analyzers 500-530: PROM Programmers 600-620: Timing Analysis 630 : State Probes 650-799: State Preprocessors 810-830: Compilers 840-859: Assemblers 930-939: Special Support Services 940-959: Field Installed Mainframe Options 960-965: Cables 980-999: Manual Sets ...and: DEFINITIONS DEVELOPMENT STATION: The HP64000 station; model numbers 64100A and 64110A. My understanding (from owning two since 1985) is that the "HP 64000" is a product line. The development station mainframes (desktop, portable) are models 64100A and 64110A, respectively. (This is analogous to the "HP 1000," which is a system. The actual CPU box carries its own model number, e.g., 2108B for an M-Series with the upgraded power supply and nine I/O slots, or 2109E for the equivalent E-Series. "HP 1000" wasn't an orderable product number, at least according to the "HP 1000 Computer Systems Ordering Guide," 5953-8773D, February 1986.) -- Dave From lindyt at cox-internet.com Thu Apr 8 15:08:34 2004 From: lindyt at cox-internet.com (Susan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: Lotus 1-2-3 v. 3.1 (DOS) copy protection ??? Message-ID: <000601c41da5$465e6fe0$6d00a8c0@susanps206mx8y> do you have a copy of installation of lotus 123 on 3 and 1/4 floppy? Just disk 1. Thanks Susan From news at computercollector.com Thu Apr 8 19:12:11 2004 From: news at computercollector.com (Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: New vintage computing publication Message-ID: <20040409001211.73225.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Hi everyone, Having conferred with Jay West, I'd now like to introduce the readers of this mailing list to a new publication, the Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter. A few of you already know me as evan947@yahoo, the guy who collects handhelds/PDAs. More than a few of you know Michael Nadeau, formerly of Byte magazine, who founded the Classic Tech E-Letter a few years ago. Meanwhile, I and Sellam Ismail (who EVERYONE knows) pondered starting a print magazine for the hobby last fall. Ultimately we decided the hobby just isn't big enough yet to support that. Instead, early this year Mike handed over the reigns of his newsletter to me. For those who don't know me, besides being a computer collector, I (like Mike) am a veteran technology reporter. Paid my dues at Gannett (which owns USA Today and other papers), was a staff engineer at a product review lab for telecom gear, and spent 3.5 years at eWeek (formerly PC Week.) I'm 29 and grew up on Apple and Atari. The first thing I did as the new editor is change the name. I think "Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter" is more intuitive and will help attractive people who aren't necessarily familiar with our growing hobby. I also changed some of the fundamentals. Before, the newsletter had infrequent publishing, and in each issue an attempt was made to cover all of the news out there. That's a difficult way to run things. So now, the newsletter is published every Monday. Also, in every issue we have one main article (news, opinion, etc.), vs. trying to be a comprehensive news outlet every single week. By "we" I mean myself, Mike, Sellam, and author Christine Finn (Christine's known for writing the book "Articacts: An archeologist's year in Silicon Valley"), and Erik Klein, who runs www.vintage-computer.com. Of course we did not want to overlap with this mailing list. Tech tips are clearly this list's domain. So with the newsletter we're sticking to the root word: news. To be crystral-clear, we're not a forum, and we're not going to duplicate existing efforts. We also didn't want to duplicate fragment the existing online classified ads and marketplaces of Sellam's and Erik's web sites. So instead they each send me their top three or four ads on alternate weeks, which I publish in the newsletter. Along with the ads there's a link that says "click here for more," taking readers to their respective sites. So as you can see, we've revamped the old Classic Tech E-Letter into something that's fresh, consistent, and clearly carving out its own niche. Besides the few of us behind the scenes, we also solicit guest writers. For example, Visicalc legend Dan Bricklin gave us a column, as did the Digibarn's Bruce Damer. Macintosh inventor Jef Raskin did an interview with us. We interviewed the CTO of Hewlett-Packard's printer division, and even IBM's David Bradley -- better known as the guy who invented Ctrl-Alt-Delete. We also went to suburban Philadelphia to write about a video game conference. We currently have about 450 subscribers. On our informational site, which is news.computercollector.com, there is additional content. There's a computer history bookstore, a small but growing page of tales from collectors, an events calendar, a summary of our articles to date, and yes, some lame Google ads to help us pay for the hosting. Anyway, the newsletter is FREE, and if you subscribe we promise to never, ever give away your email address or send you spam. We also would love to have some of you write guest columns. The slate is wide open; write about anything you're passionate about in the hobby. If you're not a writer, then just send us your ideas for articles, and/or news we should be aware of. Sometimes, we'll make factual mistakes, and we promise to be vigilant about identifying and correcting those. As I told Sellam, I respect and fear that most of the readers of the classiccmp lists know way more about computer history than I ever will. So please bear with us when, not if, we mess up. Thanks for taking this time to read this long message. To subscribe to the newsletter, go to our site (again, that's news.computercollector.com), click the subscribe link, and just put in your email address. Thanks again, Evan Koblentz PS -- I live in Cambridge, Massachusetts. If you visit the area and want to chat about vintage computing over a drink, I'm always interested. From sb at thebackend.de Fri Apr 9 04:08:08 2004 From: sb at thebackend.de (Sebastian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Br=FCckner?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 M10 In-Reply-To: <20040409094859.2b9a98fb.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <009b01c41dad$54dddb70$cd563f04@miroslav2><004b01c41db9$1f32e180$5b01a8c0@athlon> <20040409094859.2b9a98fb.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <1357.217.81.74.65.1081501688.squirrel@www.thebackend.de> Jochen Kunz said: >> The VAXstation 3200 was really a MicroVAX 3500 squuezed >> into a BA23 case with a QDSS (if memory serves correctly). > Isn't the VAXstation 3200 based on the KA640? The MicroVAX 3500 / 3600 > surely is KA650. At least my 3200 is based on the KA650. The NetBSD hardware list [1] says the same. Sebastian [1] From gbasesmith at zoomtown.com Fri Apr 9 09:30:23 2004 From: gbasesmith at zoomtown.com (Geoff) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: Can anyone identify this IBM magnetic tape cartridge? Message-ID: <000601c41e3f$31b47720$a307c20a@Geoff> The magnetic tape you have is for the IBM Magnetic Tape Selectric Typewriter. This machine was the first "Word Processing" device ever marketed. It was introduced 40 years ago in May of 1964! Neither the term "word processor" or "text editor" existed at that time. After being on the market for about two years IBM sales representatives familiar with "data processing" began to call the concept "word processing", thus the term evolved. The product was priced at $10,500 (in 1964 dollars!) It included a full size Steelcase desk with a recessed typewriter and a tape console 1' w x 2.5' d x 3' h that weighed about 100 lbs. Text was entered on the typewriter keyboard, recorded on the tape and edited by playing text back from the tape a character, word, line, etc. at a time. Print speed was an awsome 15 characters per second. From billag at triad.rr.com Fri Apr 9 14:15:44 2004 From: billag at triad.rr.com (Bill Gutknecht) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: BTI-5000,/6000 Message-ID: <4076F660.8040606@triad.rr.com> Hello, Does anyone have any information on these old minis? The BTI-4000 was based on the HP 21MX and ran their own timeshared basic. The 5000 and 6000 (and later 8000) were proprietary cpus I believe. I can get access to old tapes (and even an old machine) but I'd like to get it emulated under simh if I could. These machines were around in the late 70's and 80's. As far as I can tell, BTI doesn't exist anymore ... they were in Sunnyvale CA. Any help, info, leads would be appreciated! Thx, Bill From m005kennedy at netzero.net Fri Apr 9 15:04:40 2004 From: m005kennedy at netzero.net (m005kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro-Log programmer parts Message-ID: <005501c41e6d$e523be50$50dbf243@homeiey5awrpoc> did you post the instruction manual for the Pro-Log 980 on the internet? could i pay you to photo copy it for me perhaps? mike kennedy kb1iui From zegab at axelero.hu Fri Apr 9 19:18:08 2004 From: zegab at axelero.hu (zegab@axelero.hu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: I need docs on HP CS80 / SS80 protocols and the HP 9153C hp-ib drive Message-ID: <19318317999.20040410021808@axelero.hu> Hi, I have to backup a HP 9153C hpib disk drive without having access to a suitable computer. I decided to use NetBSD for the purpose, as it contains basic framework for gpib and cs80 disk drives, unfortunately not for this specific model. Browsing trough the list archives revealed that there were efforts on a similar project, and scanned copies of the protocol description floated around. Please who still has these protocol descriptions can you mail me a copy (of course printed versions are welcome too)? Also any information on the 9153C are welcome. Thank you, Gabor Zele From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Apr 10 15:36:01 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: Lotus 1-2-3 v. 3.1 (DOS) copy protection ??? In-Reply-To: <000601c41da5$465e6fe0$6d00a8c0@susanps206mx8y> References: <000601c41da5$465e6fe0$6d00a8c0@susanps206mx8y> Message-ID: <20040410133018.C29734@newshell.lmi.net> On Thu, 8 Apr 2004, Susan wrote: > do you have a copy of installation of lotus 123 on 3 and 1/4 floppy? Just disk 1. Thanks Susan Not any more. The Lotus and dBase 3 and 1/4 floppies were only available directly from Dysan. I think that their Lotus was < 3.1. The only 3 and 1/4 floppies that I have now are MicroPro (Wordstar) internal stuff, and alignment disks. Almost all Dysan. But I, and other people, might have it on 5 and 1/4 and on 3 and 1/2 floppies. I have a couple of old versions of Lotus that are packed away; that I won't be getting out until VCF. From tosteve at yahoo.com Sat Apr 10 17:32:29 2004 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: IC collectors? white ceramic Rockwell R6500/1EAC Message-ID: <20040410223229.37976.qmail@web40905.mail.yahoo.com> Any IC collectors here? I have a white ceramic Rockwell 64-pic IC, R6500/1EAC you can have if it's desireable. The R6500/1E is a 1 MHz "emulator device", the /1EAC is the 2MHz version. http://68.109.73.245:8000/test/6500-1.jpg http://68.109.73.245:8000/test/6500-2.jpg Steve. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From tosteve at yahoo.com Sat Apr 10 17:32:29 2004 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: IC collectors? white ceramic Rockwell R6500/1EAC Message-ID: <20040410223229.37976.qmail@web40905.mail.yahoo.com> Any IC collectors here? I have a white ceramic Rockwell 64-pic IC, R6500/1EAC you can have if it's desireable. The R6500/1E is a 1 MHz "emulator device", the /1EAC is the 2MHz version. http://68.109.73.245:8000/test/6500-1.jpg http://68.109.73.245:8000/test/6500-2.jpg Steve. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 10 18:00:57 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: Acorn A4 PSU (was Re: IBM Engineers) In-Reply-To: <27d8769d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> from "Philip Pemberton" at Apr 10, 4 02:40:59 pm Message-ID: > > In message you wrote: > > > > I've replaced all the electrolytics on the LV side that I could see. I've > > > just noticed a 1uF 50V that I missed - I don't think I've got a 1uF 50V 1= > > > 05 > > > deg C in stock though. > > > > I think any 1uF 50V (or higher) would do to prove the point :-). > I've just swapped out the cap with a cheapo 85C 1uF and the PSU is working > again. Now I need to find some way of repairing the casing. Two of the Right... I've actually had low-value caps go essentially open-circuit before... > screw-posts seem to be OK, but the other two have disintegrated. Only one of > the two remaining screw-posts seems to work - the screw keeps slipping out of Can you cut off the screw posts and replace them with something else (say a hard plastic rod, with suitable holes drilled and tapped in the ends). > the other. > So on the one hand I've got a working Acorn A4 power supply. On the other > hand, the casing is knackered :-/ Does it haveto br the original casing, or could you use some other box of a suitable size. OK, it wouldn't be original, but... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 10 17:46:37 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: I need docs on HP CS80 / SS80 protocols and the HP 9153C hp-ib drive In-Reply-To: <19318317999.20040410021808@axelero.hu> from "zegab@axelero.hu" at Apr 10, 4 02:18:08 am Message-ID: > > Hi, > > > I have to backup a HP 9153C hpib disk drive without having access to > a suitable computer. I decided to use NetBSD for the purpose, as it > contains basic framework for gpib and cs80 disk drives, unfortunately Just to clarify, GPIB and CS/80 are totally different things. The former is a hardware standard (it basically states how to transfer bytes between the 2 devices, the latter is the command set of the unit (it explains how those bytes will be interpretted). > not for this specific model. Browsing trough the list archives > revealed that there were efforts on a similar project, and scanned > copies of the protocol description floated around. Has anyone ever scanned this manual? I have it, but only on paper (it's not exactly thin either...). I don't have a scanner, though. -tony From aek at spies.com Sat Apr 10 19:11:16 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: CS/80 protocol Message-ID: <200404110011.i3B0BGiB028709@spies.com> > Has anyone ever scanned this manual? www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/disc/5955-3342_cs80-is-pm.pdf From esharpe at uswest.net Sat Apr 10 20:13:00 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: Can anyone identify this IBM magnetic tape cartridge? References: <000601c41e3f$31b47720$a307c20a@Geoff> Message-ID: <00d201c41f62$22187220$3b1495ac@aoldsl.net> and before that there was the mag card selectric.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff" To: Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 7:30 AM Subject: Can anyone identify this IBM magnetic tape cartridge? The magnetic tape you have is for the IBM Magnetic Tape Selectric Typewriter. This machine was the first "Word Processing" device ever marketed. It was introduced 40 years ago in May of 1964! Neither the term "word processor" or "text editor" existed at that time. After being on the market for about two years IBM sales representatives familiar with "data processing" began to call the concept "word processing", thus the term evolved. The product was priced at $10,500 (in 1964 dollars!) It included a full size Steelcase desk with a recessed typewriter and a tape console 1' w x 2.5' d x 3' h that weighed about 100 lbs. Text was entered on the typewriter keyboard, recorded on the tape and edited by playing text back from the tape a character, word, line, etc. at a time. Print speed was an awsome 15 characters per second. From sastevens at earthlink.net Sat Apr 10 21:20:33 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: IC collectors? white ceramic Rockwell R6500/1EAC In-Reply-To: <20040410223229.37976.qmail@web40905.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040410223229.37976.qmail@web40905.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040410212033.752da547.sastevens@earthlink.net> If the IC hasn't already been claimed I am interested. I will pay postage to here (Indiana) for it. Scott On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:32:29 -0700 (PDT) steven wrote: > Any IC collectors here? > > I have a white ceramic Rockwell 64-pic IC, R6500/1EAC > you can have if it's desireable. > > The R6500/1E is a 1 MHz "emulator device", the /1EAC > is the 2MHz version. > > http://68.109.73.245:8000/test/6500-1.jpg > http://68.109.73.245:8000/test/6500-2.jpg > > Steve. > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From marvin at rain.org Sat Apr 10 21:12:19 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: OT FS: NEC Windows CE Message-ID: <4078A983.DD563A43@rain.org> I am still cleaning out stuff I don't need. I sold the MobilePro sometime ago and just ran across this stuff. NEC MobilePro Software including Windows CE, NEC free software CD, Sprynet for Windows CE CD, VGA monitor adapter for the MobilePro, and other paperwork that came with the unit. $15.00 plus $3.85 USPS Priority Mail including delivery confirmation. From donm at cts.com Sat Apr 10 23:03:44 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: Can anyone identify this IBM magnetic tape cartridge? In-Reply-To: <00d201c41f62$22187220$3b1495ac@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 10 Apr 2004, Ed Sharpe wrote: > and before that there was the mag card selectric.... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Geoff" > To: > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 7:30 AM > Subject: Can anyone identify this IBM magnetic tape cartridge? > > > The magnetic tape you have is for the IBM Magnetic Tape Selectric > Typewriter. This machine was the first "Word Processing" device ever > marketed. It was introduced 40 years ago in May of 1964! > > Neither the term "word processor" or "text editor" existed at that time. > After being on the market for about two years IBM sales representatives > familiar with "data processing" began to call the concept "word processing", > thus the term evolved. > > The product was priced at $10,500 (in 1964 dollars!) It included a full > size Steelcase desk with a recessed typewriter and a tape console 1' w x > 2.5' d x 3' h that weighed about 100 lbs. > > Text was entered on the typewriter keyboard, recorded on the tape and edited > by playing text back from the tape a character, word, line, etc. at a time. > Print speed was an awsome 15 characters per second. True! But what was really awsome was that when your secretary entered changes into a document, she did not (normally) enter brand new errors that had not been there in the prior edition. This was REALLY progress. - don From huw.davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Sat Apr 10 23:35:00 2004 From: huw.davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: AIX In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <982C04DE-8B71-11D8-BBDB-000A957FD620@kerberos.davies.net.au> On 1 Apr 2004, at 14:56, Bob Brown wrote: > One thing that AIX had before hpux is the ability to dynamically > increase > the size of its lvols. HP can now do it (and has been able to for a > couple of years), but AIX has had this feature for a long time (and I > was > very envious of it until hp finally added it into its unix). Wasn't LVM one of the OSF/1 technologies that IBM were developing? I seem to recall that the various members of the OSF/1 consortium (IBM, DEC, HP?, ???) were each assigned a technology section, but I can't recall who all the members were and which bit each contributed. I do recall that Digital ended up being the only member :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au Melbourne | "If soccer was meant to be played in the Australia | air, the sky would be painted green" From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Apr 10 22:28:20 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: HP 64000 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <200404081501.i38F1krQ028069@mail.bcpl.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20040408074756.00895c20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200404071722.i37HMFk3017882@mail.bcpl.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040410232820.00861100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:01 AM 4/8/04 -0400, you wrote: >On 8 Apr 2004 at 7:47, Joe R. wrote: > >> The 64000 and 64100 are very different machines. > >Please elaborate. You said it yourself: "My understanding (from owning two since 1985) is that the "HP 64000" is a product line. The development station mainframes (desktop, portable) " Maybe I'm wrong but as I recall, the 64000 is a LARGE desktop unit with about a 13 or 14 inch screen, keyboard etc all built into one BIG unit. The 64100 is portable machine that's similar is size and style to a Kaypro computer (but slightly larger). The two do similar jobs but they're very different in size and weight. Due to the very different styles of construction and size, I'm sure that they use very different interface cards. I have a couple of both but I've never used the 64100 and I haven't used the 64000 in a long time. FWIW I just passed up a couple of 64000s in a scrap place. Joe > >Quoting from the "HP 64000 Logic Development System Selection and >Configuration Guide" (July 1985): > > NUMBERING SYSTEM > > Following is a breakdown of the 64000 System Numbering scheme. The > product line is 64XXX in which XXX is: > > 001-099: Mainframe Options > 100-149: Mainframes > 150-169: Emulation Memory and Controllers > 190-299: Emulation Modules > 300-350: Internal Analyzers > 500-530: PROM Programmers > 600-620: Timing Analysis > 630 : State Probes > 650-799: State Preprocessors > 810-830: Compilers > 840-859: Assemblers > 930-939: Special Support Services > 940-959: Field Installed Mainframe Options > 960-965: Cables > 980-999: Manual Sets > >...and: > > DEFINITIONS > > DEVELOPMENT STATION: The HP64000 station; model numbers 64100A and > 64110A. > >My understanding (from owning two since 1985) is that the "HP 64000" is a >product line. The development station mainframes (desktop, portable) are >models 64100A and 64110A, respectively. > >(This is analogous to the "HP 1000," which is a system. The actual CPU box >carries its own model number, e.g., 2108B for an M-Series with the upgraded >power supply and nine I/O slots, or 2109E for the equivalent E-Series. "HP >1000" wasn't an orderable product number, at least according to the "HP >1000 Computer Systems Ordering Guide," 5953-8773D, February 1986.) > > -- Dave > > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Apr 10 18:37:15 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: Acorn A4 PSU (was Re: IBM Engineers) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <166fad9d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > Right... I've actually had low-value caps go essentially open-circuit > before... Well, what do you expect them to do if the electrolyte dries out? :) > Can you cut off the screw posts and replace them with something else (say That's quite easy - cut most of it off with a cut-down hacksaw blade, then sand it down to the level of the surrounding plastic. > a hard plastic rod, with suitable holes drilled and tapped in the ends). Maybe. It'll be a bit of a challenge to get some plastic rod of that size though - not even the (fairly) well-stocked model shop has much selection in plastics. I've also yet to find a plastics supplier that sells direct to the public, too. :-/ > Does it haveto br the original casing, or could you use some other box of > a suitable size. OK, it wouldn't be original, but... I suppose I could use a different case. Only problem is, I haven't seen any nice-looking plastic cases of the right sort of size. That and I'd need stand-offs for the PCB - more expense. Thanks. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Hardware: The part you kick. From shirsch at adelphia.net Sun Apr 11 09:06:31 2004 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: HP 64000 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040410232820.00861100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 10 Apr 2004, Joe R. wrote: > You said it yourself: > "My understanding (from owning two since 1985) is that the "HP 64000" is a > product line. The development station mainframes (desktop, portable) " > > > Maybe I'm wrong but as I recall, the 64000 is a LARGE desktop unit with > about a 13 or 14 inch screen, keyboard etc all built into one BIG unit. The > 64100 is portable machine that's similar is size and style to a Kaypro > computer (but slightly larger). The two do similar jobs but they're very > different in size and weight. Due to the very different styles of > construction and size, I'm sure that they use very different interface cards. The 64100 is quite a bit larger (and heavier!) than a Kaypro portable (trust me, I've hefted them). They do, in fact, use the same boards, but the portable won't hold as many of them. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 11 13:09:41 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: Acorn A4 PSU (was Re: IBM Engineers) In-Reply-To: <166fad9d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> from "Philip Pemberton" at Apr 11, 4 00:37:15 am Message-ID: > > In message > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > > Right... I've actually had low-value caps go essentially open-circuit > > before... > Well, what do you expect them to do if the electrolyte dries out? :) > > > Can you cut off the screw posts and replace them with something else (say > That's quite easy - cut most of it off with a cut-down hacksaw blade, then > sand it down to the level of the surrounding plastic. OK... > > > a hard plastic rod, with suitable holes drilled and tapped in the ends). > Maybe. It'll be a bit of a challenge to get some plastic rod of that size I've not seen it, so I can't know the size... RS do some plastics, but in fairly large quantities :-(. GLR Distribution do Nylon and PTFE in 1/4", 1/2" and 1" (I think) diameters, sold by the foot (these might be metricated now :-(). What size do yuo need? Actually, does it have to be plastic (i.e. does it have to be an insulator), or you could use, say, brass rod if you connected it to mains earth? Most model engineering suppliers sell brass rod. (Note : Model Engineerign Supplier != model shop). > though - not even the (fairly) well-stocked model shop has much selection in > plastics. I've also yet to find a plastics supplier that sells direct to the > public, too. :-/ > > > Does it haveto br the original casing, or could you use some other box of > > a suitable size. OK, it wouldn't be original, but... > I suppose I could use a different case. Only problem is, I haven't seen any > nice-looking plastic cases of the right sort of size. That and I'd need Metal case, and connect to mains earth? > stand-offs for the PCB - more expense. Hmmm.. Make them youself from brass rod? I've done this when I've needed a really odd size, or have needed odd threads (like the M3.5 jackposts used on GPIB connectors, which seem to be unobtainable in UK catalogues!) -tony From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Apr 11 13:47:51 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: Dead Mac IIfx Message-ID: Hi folks, After getting a nubus ethernet card and a radius 24bit accelerator I thought I'd dig out my olde IIfx......trouble is it's refusing to power up even with different keyboards/known good PRAM batteries. It worked when I got it a couple of years ago; I even treated it to knew batteries, so anyone know of any instant fixes for dead machines? I'm going to steal the PSU from my other Mac II and see if it makes a difference....I know they're the same apart from the IIfx one has a variable speed fan. Cheers, -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sun Apr 11 17:03:29 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: Burroughs head-per-track disks Message-ID: <4079C0B1.7080202@gifford.co.uk> Does anyone know anything about the Burroughs head-per-track disk drives? Must be 1960s mainframe technology. We had two of these gadgets attached to a (modified) CTL Modular One at Westfield College, London. It was all scrapped out in the 1980s, but I still have a power supply from one of the drives. Is it any use to anybody (it's now in Bristol)? It's a massive transformer, rectifier and capacitor setup. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From violinisgood at senet.com.au Sun Apr 11 08:04:03 2004 From: violinisgood at senet.com.au (Angela Barrett) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: Sharp 7100 Message-ID: <000801c41fc5$7815f5e0$efb9fea9@bender> Not sure what happened to your query in 2002 but I found it now. Not even sure which message treading service I am looking at (via Google). Wondered if you still have the 7100 as I have just acquired one. It does boot (from the 20M HD) and seems to work fine. I also wondered if there was some legacy software to boot it from in the event that its rom battery goes flat. Maybe you can help? I imagine that the boot info could be retrieved from the rom via a ZIP disk from the parallel port if I knew how. Bob Barrett, Adelaide From cc at corti-net.de Sun Apr 11 12:13:52 2004 From: cc at corti-net.de (Christian Corti) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: IC collectors? white ceramic Rockwell R6500/1EAC In-Reply-To: <20040410223229.37976.qmail@web40905.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 10 Apr 2004, steven wrote: > http://68.109.73.245:8000/test/6500-1.jpg > http://68.109.73.245:8000/test/6500-2.jpg Cannot open the HTTP connection to 68.109.73.245 port 8000; [Connection refused]. What's wrong? I really would like to see a picture of a R6500 I've never heard of before. Christian From cc at corti-net.de Sun Apr 11 12:18:05 2004 From: cc at corti-net.de (Christian Corti) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: Can anyone identify this IBM magnetic tape cartridge? In-Reply-To: <00d201c41f62$22187220$3b1495ac@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 10 Apr 2004, Ed Sharpe wrote: > and before that there was the mag card selectric.... And long before that there was the Friden Flexowriter. Christian From jdbryan at acm.org Sun Apr 11 18:44:02 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: CS/80 protocol In-Reply-To: <200404110011.i3B0BGiB028709@spies.com> Message-ID: <200404112344.i3BNi3rQ023245@mail.bcpl.net> On 10 Apr 2004 at 17:11, Al Kossow wrote: > www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/disc/5955-3342_cs80-is-pm.pdf Al, shouldn't that part number in the filename be 5955-3442 (instead of 3342)? The copy I have of "CS/80 Instruction Set Programming Manual" (E0782) shows the -3442 number on the back cover and first page. -- Dave From bill_mcdermith at mcdermith.net Sun Apr 11 19:34:34 2004 From: bill_mcdermith at mcdermith.net (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: HP 64000 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040410232820.00861100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040408074756.00895c20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200404071722.i37HMFk3017882@mail.bcpl.net> <3.0.6.32.20040410232820.00861100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <4079E41A.1040908@mcdermith.net> Joe R. wrote: > Maybe I'm wrong but as I recall, the 64000 is a LARGE desktop unit with > about a 13 or 14 inch screen, keyboard etc all built into one BIG unit. The > 64100 is portable machine that's similar is size and style to a Kaypro > computer (but slightly larger). The two do similar jobs but they're very > different in size and weight. Due to the very different styles of > construction and size, I'm sure that they use very different interface cards. > The only practical difference between the two is the number of interface cards you can place in the instrument, and how easy they are to move... (There are other minor differences, like power supply size, etc.) They both use exactly the same instrument cards... The 64100 is "portable", that is, it has a handle on it, and, IIRC a fold-down keyboard that protects the screen and floppy drives, though I wouldn't want to carry one a long way :-) The desktop unit is large and quite heavy... Bill From allain at panix.com Mon Apr 12 11:03:06 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: Making foreign DOS boot floppies (IBM). References: <200404110011.i3B0BGiB028709@spies.com> Message-ID: <013501c420a7$a4fd2fa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Up to now the way I've made bootable floppies of any necessary DOS version by shutting down my master system, rebooting to the appropriate floppy, format/s, copy, then reboot the master system to disk, which works but is pretty time consuming. What I'd like to do is all of this with the master running the normal higher-version O/S. I've gotten this far: Step one seems to be generic: format command. Step two is ? Step three is to copy IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS Step four is to mark IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS with attrib as System, Hidden, and Read-Only. Step five: copy COMMAND.COM,CONFIG.SYS,AUTOEXEC.BAT and then the rest of DOS. Apparently all DOS 3.5" floppies are FAT format with the capacity is 1,457,664 bytes, regardless the version, after accounting for the two hidden files, so... Is there a way I can patch or debug the floppy after generic format to make it look bootable? John A. or should I say Hi Fred? From cb at mythtech.net Mon Apr 12 11:20:32 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: Making foreign DOS boot floppies (IBM). Message-ID: >Apparently all DOS 3.5" floppies are FAT format with the capacity >is 1,457,664 bytes, regardless the version, after accounting for the >two hidden files, so... >Is there a way I can patch or debug the floppy after generic >format to make it look bootable? I thought there was a Format /b switch to set a floppy as bootable (which is different then Format /s which sets as bootable AND copies system files). Of course, I seem to recall that as an option with DOS, so I don't know if it is an option with something higher. A quick look in Win2k doesn't list /b as an option (or /s, and neither seem to work when tried). -chris From marvin at rain.org Mon Apr 12 11:21:12 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: Making foreign DOS boot floppies (IBM). References: <200404110011.i3B0BGiB028709@spies.com> <013501c420a7$a4fd2fa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <407AC1F8.1EDF532A@rain.org> Starting with unformatted disks, doing what you are doing didn't work for me either. I found though that by formating "/s" with whatever system (haven't tried it with post win95 OSs) and deleting all the system files, your step 3 and on worked just fine. I'm assuming the boot sector gets something put in it, but I'll be interested to hear if someone actually knows what is going on :). John Allain wrote: > > Up to now the way I've made bootable floppies of any necessary DOS > version by shutting down my master system, rebooting to the appropriate > floppy, format/s, copy, then reboot the master system to disk, which > works but is pretty time consuming. > > What I'd like to do is all of this with the master running the normal > higher-version O/S. I've gotten this far: > > Step one seems to be generic: format command. > Step two is ? > Step three is to copy IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS > Step four is to mark IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS with attrib as > System, Hidden, and Read-Only. > Step five: copy COMMAND.COM,CONFIG.SYS,AUTOEXEC.BAT > and then the rest of DOS. From patrick at VintageComputerMarketplace.com Mon Apr 12 11:55:23 2004 From: patrick at VintageComputerMarketplace.com (Patrick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: Making foreign DOS boot floppies (IBM). In-Reply-To: <407AC1F8.1EDF532A@rain.org> Message-ID: > John Allain wrote: > > > > Up to now the way I've made bootable floppies of any necessary DOS > > version by shutting down my master system, rebooting to the appropriate > > floppy, format/s, copy, then reboot the master system to disk, which > > works but is pretty time consuming. > > > > What I'd like to do is all of this with the master running the normal > > higher-version O/S. I've gotten this far: > > > > Step one seems to be generic: format command. > > Step two is ? > > Step three is to copy IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS > > Step four is to mark IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS with attrib as > > System, Hidden, and Read-Only. > > Step five: copy COMMAND.COM,CONFIG.SYS,AUTOEXEC.BAT > > and then the rest of DOS. Isn't this what the SYS.COM utility is supposed to do? FORMAT A: /S == FORMAT A: + SYS A: ? --Patrick From pat at computer-refuge.org Mon Apr 12 12:04:00 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: Making foreign DOS boot floppies (IBM). In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200404121204.00956.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Monday 12 April 2004 11:55, Patrick wrote: > > John Allain wrote: > > > Up to now the way I've made bootable floppies of any necessary > > > DOS version by shutting down my master system, rebooting to the > > > appropriate floppy, format/s, copy, then reboot the master system > > > to disk, which works but is pretty time consuming. > > > > > > What I'd like to do is all of this with the master running the > > > normal higher-version O/S. I've gotten this far: > > > > > > Step one seems to be generic: format command. > > > Step two is ? > > > Step three is to copy IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS > > > Step four is to mark IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS with attrib as > > > System, Hidden, and Read-Only. > > > Step five: copy COMMAND.COM,CONFIG.SYS,AUTOEXEC.BAT > > > and then the rest of DOS. > > Isn't this what the SYS.COM utility is supposed to do? FORMAT A: /S > == FORMAT A: + SYS A: ? --Patrick And, with SYS, you can tell it what "drive" to pull the system files from, so you could stick them on another hard drive in the machine and do SYS D: A:, and should end up with the version of them from drive D:. You might (probably can) be able to get that to work with copying older DOS versions. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From patrick at VintageComputerMarketplace.com Mon Apr 12 12:07:36 2004 From: patrick at VintageComputerMarketplace.com (Patrick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: Making foreign DOS boot floppies (IBM). In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Isn't this what the SYS.COM utility is supposed to do? FORMAT A: /S == > FORMAT A: + SYS A: ? --Patrick Duh. Ignore this--wrong path. I see what you are trying to do, John. (More caffeine please.) My approach to this is to make base bootable floppies in the same (slow) way in which you did (reboot to bootable partition or floppy with the target version). Then, using whatever tools you like (dd, teledisk, fdimage, copyflop, etc), make an image of the bootable disk and stow it away. When you want a bootable disk in that flavor, create it from the image, and then copy whatever additional files you need. Using dd on *nix is particularly handy, because you can archive all kinds of formats--I use it for boot disks for 3Com terminal servers, an old voicemail system, etc. --Patrick From patrick at VintageComputerMarketplace.com Mon Apr 12 12:09:08 2004 From: patrick at VintageComputerMarketplace.com (Patrick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: Making foreign DOS boot floppies (IBM). In-Reply-To: <200404121204.00956.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: > And, with SYS, you can tell it what "drive" to pull the system files > from, so you could stick them on another hard drive in the machine and > do SYS D: A:, and should end up with the version of them from drive D:. > You might (probably can) be able to get that to work with copying older > DOS versions. > > Pat THIS I did not know! Maybe SYS would work after all! Great tip, Pat! --Patrick From als at thangorodrim.de Mon Apr 12 12:31:11 2004 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: Making foreign DOS boot floppies (IBM). In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040412173111.GB24778@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Mon, Apr 12, 2004 at 12:20:32PM -0400, chris wrote: > >Apparently all DOS 3.5" floppies are FAT format with the capacity > >is 1,457,664 bytes, regardless the version, after accounting for the > >two hidden files, so... > >Is there a way I can patch or debug the floppy after generic > >format to make it look bootable? > > I thought there was a Format /b switch to set a floppy as bootable (which > is different then Format /s which sets as bootable AND copies system > files). Of course, I seem to recall that as an option with DOS, so I > don't know if it is an option with something higher. A quick look in > Win2k doesn't list /b as an option (or /s, and neither seem to work when > tried). Because the isn't DOS beneath Windows 2000. Windows 2000 runs on the NT kernel and you are _not_ booting this from a 1.44 MB floppy, no matter how hard you try. There were rescue floppies for NT, but AFAIK they only got you around a FUBARed boot sector and first stage loader - loading the kernel from harddisk. The last DOS + graphical Shell combination sold as an OS by Microsoft was Windows 95/98/ME. Windows 2000 and XP are descendants of Windows NT. Yes, you can still get a command line in these, but it is cmd.exe, the NT (and up) commandline shell. Old DOS programs keep running because they are handed a simulated DOS environment. Or they won't run because the NT kernel flat out refuses them direct access to the hardware (it has to, for obvious reasons). Therefore, the /s and /b switches to format would be meaningless with NT and up. The last Windows capable of generating bootable DOS floppies would be Windows ME.. Regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison From rcini at optonline.net Mon Apr 12 12:46:13 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: Making foreign DOS boot floppies (IBM). In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002a01c420b6$0d343b00$6401a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> For this I use the 2file/2floppy utilities from the old PC MagNet or readimg/writimg utilities from Microsoft. I make a "template" floppy and then burn them as needed. If you can't locate these utilities, I can send you a zip with them in it. I have a slightly-modified Win98 boot disk and a DOS 6.22 boot disk that I use on ocassion. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Patrick Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 1:08 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: Making foreign DOS boot floppies (IBM). > Isn't this what the SYS.COM utility is supposed to do? FORMAT A: /S == > FORMAT A: + SYS A: ? --Patrick Duh. Ignore this--wrong path. I see what you are trying to do, John. (More caffeine please.) My approach to this is to make base bootable floppies in the same (slow) way in which you did (reboot to bootable partition or floppy with the target version). Then, using whatever tools you like (dd, teledisk, fdimage, copyflop, etc), make an image of the bootable disk and stow it away. When you want a bootable disk in that flavor, create it from the image, and then copy whatever additional files you need. Using dd on *nix is particularly handy, because you can archive all kinds of formats--I use it for boot disks for 3Com terminal servers, an old voicemail system, etc. --Patrick From allain at panix.com Mon Apr 12 13:05:28 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: Making foreign DOS boot floppies (IBM). References: Message-ID: <002501c420b8$bd8e2fe0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >> And, with SYS, you can tell it what "drive" to pull the system files >> from, so you could stick them on another hard drive in the machine Nice. Looking up SYS.COM in the Ref (v3.3) manual: "DOS statrup requires {(sic)IBMBIO.COM and IBMDOS.COM} to occupy the first two directory entries, and because IBMBIO.COM must start at the beginning of the data area of the disk." that explains a lot. But, format/b documentation confusingly mentions that the floppy is also formattted 8 sectors per track. Sounds almost wrong -- the capacity doesn't change for example. John A. From jdbryan at acm.org Mon Apr 12 09:45:19 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:47 2005 Subject: HP 64000 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040410232820.00861100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <200404081501.i38F1krQ028069@mail.bcpl.net> Message-ID: <200404121445.i3CEjKrQ026562@mail.bcpl.net> On 10 Apr 2004 at 23:28, Joe R. wrote: > Maybe I'm wrong but as I recall, the 64000 is a LARGE desktop unit with > about a 13 or 14 inch screen, keyboard etc all built into one BIG unit. OK, I see where the confusion lies. The unit that you describe above is a 64100A Mainframe. The right-hand vertical front panel containing the floppies/tape/blank says "64000" in the upper left corner, but that's the generic product family, not the unit model number. > The 64100 is portable machine that's similar is size and style to a > Kaypro computer (but slightly larger). That's the 64110A mainframe. I'll scan a couple of pages from the "HP 64000 Installation and Configuration Reference Manual" (64980-90921, June 1982) tonight that show the differences and post a URL tomorrow. > The two do similar jobs but they're very different in size and weight. Right. The 100A was the primary development station for bench-top use, and the 110A was developed a bit later for field use. I have the HP Journal issues around here somewhere that describe the units, but I can't seem to lay my hands on them at the moment. > Due to the very different styles of construction and size, I'm sure > that they use very different interface cards. They actually used the same cards (e.g., so that you could take an emulator and analyzer into the field), but the 100A accommodated 10 option cards, while the 110A only handled 5. > I have a couple of both but I've never used the 64100 and I haven't > used the 64000 in a long time. If you look on the lower left-rear of the big unit below the serial plate, you'll see that it says "64100A Mainframe." :-) > FWIW I just passed up a couple of 64000s in a scrap place. Speaking as someone who bought a new, complete 64000 system at full price nearly twenty years ago: "Ouch!" -- Dave From workstations at sbcglobal.net Mon Apr 12 09:55:54 2004 From: workstations at sbcglobal.net (Frank Stotts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Wanted: RL02K (Re: WTB/T: RL02/01, QBUS SMD) Message-ID: 55- Dec 10gb drives interested? make offer Frank Stotts Workstations Hardware Services e-mail>frank@wrksta.com (405) 842-5151 From jdbryan at acm.org Mon Apr 12 10:10:02 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: HP 64000 in Kansas City Message-ID: <200404121510.i3CFA4rQ020761@mail.bcpl.net> On 12 Apr 2004 at 10:45, I wrote: > If you look on the lower left-rear of the big unit below the serial > plate, you'll see that it says "64100A Mainframe." :-) I've never owned a 64110A (portable) mainframe. Pictures in the sales literature of the time, though, show the model number plate on the lower right-hand side of the fold-down keyboard below the cursor keys. -- Dave From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Apr 12 14:17:01 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: DEC Mini Exchange info? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001d01c420c2$bb8b0150$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Does anyone out there have any information on the escape > sequences needed to control a DEC Mini Exchange? These are > the serial switches that were often used for printer and > modem sharing on Rainbow 100 systems. I'm trying to write a > program to access it, but no luck. Any help is appreciated! I have AA-DY84A-XV "Using the Mini-Exchange", which covers hooking up the box and using it under MS-DOS 2.11. I think it's on the web, but if it is, it's probably at http://www.pdp11.nl, which right now is down. If you think this manual would be useful, let me know and I'll dig out the scan and try to make it available via ftp. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Apr 12 15:53:30 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Assorted free comms gear etc. (Milton Keynes, UK) Message-ID: <1081803209.9606.23.camel@weka.localdomain> Hi, Somebody dropped off the following items (operational condition unknown) to the Bletchley Park computer museum the other week which we can't really make any use of: Two Racal Milgo Omnimux 82 advanced statistical multiplexors An ACT SDM-T (seems to convert several analogue phone lines to digital) An X-TEC Protocol Converter A Wellfleet Access Node Communications Server Large industrial rack system with 5" VGA display, Colorado 1440 tape drive, 3.5" floppy, PSU, and a huge backplane containing 4 PCI slots and 15 ISA slots. We actually have two units, but may be keeping the screen from one of them as it could prove useful for something at a later date - maybe the backplane and chassis is still useful to someone though. I believe there's the PC-on-a-card board kicking around the office from one of the racks, the other one arrived with a bare backplane though. They're free to a good home; comms gear isn't really my thing so I just grabbed what was on the front labels - if any of the above sounds like it could be useful to anyone I can always get more details as to exact model numbers, what interfaces they have etc. cheers Jules From dvcorbin at optonline.net Mon Apr 12 18:05:04 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Wanted: RL02K (Re: WTB/T: RL02/01, QBUS SMD) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ummmm.. That should be 10MB.... In any case do you know if these packs have any content. If they are original distribution media (or backups thereof), that could actually be worth more than the raw platters (which have a relatively low value).... >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Frank Stotts >>> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 10:56 AM >>> To: cctech@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: Wanted: RL02K (Re: WTB/T: RL02/01, QBUS SMD) >>> >>> 55- Dec 10gb drives interested? make offer >>> >>> Frank Stotts >>> Workstations Hardware Services >>> e-mail>frank@wrksta.com >>> (405) 842-5151 >>> From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Mon Apr 12 18:21:57 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Acorn A4 PSU (was Re: IBM Engineers) References: <166fad9d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <005501c420e5$28e655c0$07494ed5@geoff> What about wooden dowel ? Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Pemberton" To: Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 12:37 AM Subject: Re: Acorn A4 PSU (was Re: IBM Engineers) > In message > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > > Right... I've actually had low-value caps go essentially open-circuit > > before... > Well, what do you expect them to do if the electrolyte dries out? :) > > > Can you cut off the screw posts and replace them with something else (say > That's quite easy - cut most of it off with a cut-down hacksaw blade, then > sand it down to the level of the surrounding plastic. > > > a hard plastic rod, with suitable holes drilled and tapped in the ends). > Maybe. It'll be a bit of a challenge to get some plastic rod of that size > though - not even the (fairly) well-stocked model shop has much selection in > plastics. I've also yet to find a plastics supplier that sells direct to the > public, too. :-/ > > > Does it haveto br the original casing, or could you use some other box of > > a suitable size. OK, it wouldn't be original, but... > I suppose I could use a different case. Only problem is, I haven't seen any > nice-looking plastic cases of the right sort of size. That and I'd need > stand-offs for the PCB - more expense. > > Thanks. > -- > Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, > philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI > ... Hardware: The part you kick. From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Mon Apr 12 18:16:03 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: New vintage computing publication References: <20040409001211.73225.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005401c420e5$27f3b860$07494ed5@geoff> > The first thing I did as the new editor is change the > name. I think "Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter" > is more intuitive and will help attractive people who > aren't necessarily familiar with our growing hobby. What's wrong with helping unattractive people like me then ? Geoff. > Thanks again, > > Evan Koblentz > > PS -- I live in Cambridge, Massachusetts. If you > visit the area and want to chat about vintage > computing over a drink, I'm always interested. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Apr 12 20:14:46 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Parallel Key boards Message-ID: <200404130114.SAA02239@clulw009.amd.com> Hi For anyone wanting a parallel keyboard for their old project machine or someone wanting to connect to a Polymorphic video board, there is a pair of keyboards on ebay at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=4122846529 I've bought two of these myself and they are excellent quality keyboards. I have no other connection with the seller. The boards are early 80's vintage and use a 8051 technology. The key field appears to be capacitive so it should last a long time. They run on a single +5V. Dwight From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 12 20:43:11 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Removing physical blemishes from CRT? Message-ID: Although the CRT in question is off-topic, the question is fairly topical: Is there any way to remove physical blemishes from the face of a CRT? I've got a very nice 19" SVGA display that has some scratches on the face. They are somewhat invisible unless you happen to be looking at something at that part of the screen (lower third, right of center). Can this be buffed out or ... ? I hope there's a way to do this because I've been wanting to fix the face of my 35" ProScan TV that has the same problem. You barely notice it, but it is slightly distracting when you do. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dvcorbin at optonline.net Mon Apr 12 21:16:17 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Removing physical blemishes from CRT? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have had mixed results using the products that "remove scratches from your glasses...", but usually pretty good. I cant recall the brand name, one of those buy off the TV things, and I am not at home where the can 'o stuff is... I *think* if the surface is very clean, and you follow directions carefully...... >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage >>> Computer Festival >>> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 9:43 PM >>> To: Classic Computers Mailing List >>> Subject: Removing physical blemishes from CRT? >>> >>> >>> Although the CRT in question is off-topic, the question is >>> fairly topical: >>> >>> Is there any way to remove physical blemishes from the face >>> of a CRT? >>> I've got a very nice 19" SVGA display that has some >>> scratches on the face. >>> They are somewhat invisible unless you happen to be looking >>> at something at that part of the screen (lower third, right >>> of center). >>> >>> Can this be buffed out or ... ? >>> >>> I hope there's a way to do this because I've been wanting >>> to fix the face of my 35" ProScan TV that has the same >>> problem. You barely notice it, but it is slightly >>> distracting when you do. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Sellam Ismail >>> Vintage Computer Festival >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> International Man of Intrigue and Danger >>> http://www.vintage.org >>> >>> [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade >>> Vintage Computers ] >>> [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at >>> http://marketplace.vintage.org ] >>> From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Apr 12 21:14:42 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Removing physical blemishes from CRT? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040412210948.035b4008@mail.ubanproductions.com> I had a 17" Sony GDM monitor a number of years back which had a similar problem. It was perfect other than a couple of scratches in the face of the CRT. I was able to polish out the imperfection using some rubbing compound and afterwards, you could not see the location when using the monitor face on. There was just a bit of a variation in glossyness when viewing the CRT from an acute angle. If you have problems finding a polishing compound, you might try a product designed for buffing out scratches in car finish, or possibly even toothpaste (has to be the right type). --tom At 06:43 PM 4/12/2004 -0700, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >Although the CRT in question is off-topic, the question is fairly topical: > >Is there any way to remove physical blemishes from the face of a CRT? >I've got a very nice 19" SVGA display that has some scratches on the face. >They are somewhat invisible unless you happen to be looking at something >at that part of the screen (lower third, right of center). > >Can this be buffed out or ... ? > >I hope there's a way to do this because I've been wanting to fix the face >of my 35" ProScan TV that has the same problem. You barely notice it, but >it is slightly distracting when you do. > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Apr 12 17:30:48 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Removing physical blemishes from CRT? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040413022825.MWAD18104.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > >>> I hope there's a way to do this because I've been wanting > >>> to fix the face of my 35" ProScan TV that has the same > >>> problem. You barely notice it, but it is slightly > >>> distracting when you do. 35"? That size have not been made since early to mid 1990's. I bet this TV is CTC169 or CTC177 chassis? This details is also on same rear sticker with model number on it. How is yours on picture quality if the set is over 8 years old? I'd leave it alone and get new regular 32" TV like JVC or RCA. Less bulk and bit manageable with weight. Cost is not as bad was used to be. Next time, try not to buy ding & scratched tv or monitor for a discount. Scratched tubes is very annoying and nearly impossible to remove. The majority of cost faction of overall value is in tube itself. Ditto to any flat CRT stuff, if it's very cheap and very new, test it before buying. Never buy a dead on sight unseen, chances it was dropped = read: destroyed shadow mask. Very especially all philips CRT and sony crts (dome or flat) and any brands using flat CRTs has shadow mask that is easy to knock out of alignment even totally popped loose. Don't get too excited about the HDTV yet, it is very stunning ESPECIALLY when standards is all aired out in the end. Just get midrange 16:9 RCA or JVC projector if you like to watch movies in 16:9 format or watch sports on big screen. Cheers, Wizard (TV tech for TV shop) From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 12 21:37:09 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Paging Ed Sharpe Message-ID: Ed, You've not responded to my messages regarding the DPS-6. At this point I'm assuming you're not getting them for some reason, but if you don't reply to this one by tomorrow then I'll assume you're no longer interested and will go to the next in line. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Apr 12 21:35:29 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Removing physical blemishes from CRT? Message-ID: <200404130235.TAA02274@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > > >Although the CRT in question is off-topic, the question is fairly topical: > >Is there any way to remove physical blemishes from the face of a CRT? >I've got a very nice 19" SVGA display that has some scratches on the face. >They are somewhat invisible unless you happen to be looking at something >at that part of the screen (lower third, right of center). > >Can this be buffed out or ... ? > >I hope there's a way to do this because I've been wanting to fix the face >of my 35" ProScan TV that has the same problem. You barely notice it, but >it is slightly distracting when you do. > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival Hi Sellam It takes quite a bit of elbow grease but yes, it can be done. Usually you use some 10 to 20 micron aluminum oxide to fine grind until you are past the scratch. Then you use rouge or cerium oxide to polish. It is a process similar to what we do to make a telescope mirror. Dwight From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 12 22:07:12 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Removing physical blemishes from CRT? In-Reply-To: <20040413022825.MWAD18104.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: This is getting a bit OT but... On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > 35"? That size have not been made since early to mid 1990's. > > I bet this TV is CTC169 or CTC177 chassis? This details is also on > same rear sticker with model number on it. Close: CTC170R. > How is yours on picture quality if the set is over 8 years old? I'd It's terrific. The set is maybe 10 years old now. > leave it alone and get new regular 32" TV like JVC or RCA. Less bulk > and bit manageable with weight. Cost is not as bad was used to be. Sure, but this is one nice TV. It employs a picture technology they call IDTV or "Improved Definition TV". Basically, they use an algorithm that fills in between scan lines with the picture data above and below. There are almost no visible scan lines. The clarity is phenomenal. In fact, it's even better than my 40" Sony Vega from 2000. Even though the picture quality on that is terrific, the ProScan is still much better because of the IDTV. > Next time, try not to buy ding & scratched tv or monitor for a > discount. Scratched tubes is very annoying and nearly impossible to > remove. The majority of cost faction of overall value is in tube > itself. Sure, but I got a really good deal for a really good TV. It was a floor model and I think I talked the sales dude down by nearly US$1,000 because of the scratches on the tube, which again are not normally noticeable (just occasionally depending on where the action is on the screen and what's being displayed, the lighting in the room, etc.) I used the savings to buy the extended warranty plan which came in handy a few years after I bought it when a transistor on the mainboard went out. The repair guy came and fixed it (apparently it was a known flaw) and it's been working just as good as new ever since. I figure (hope?) I'll get a couple more years out of it before it blows. > Ditto to any flat CRT stuff, if it's very cheap and very new, test it > before buying. Never buy a dead on sight unseen, chances it was This monitor was free (or actually, it was more than free...being an e-waste recycler has its side benefits ;) so it's no loss either way. I just like this one because it's nice and big, has an integrated USB hub (very handy) and it's somewhat stylish (Nokia Multigraph 446XPro). Mainly, it was the USB hub that clinched it for me, even though I have another display available that's an inch bigger. > Don't get too excited about the HDTV yet, it is very stunning > ESPECIALLY when standards is all aired out in the end. Just get > midrange 16:9 RCA or JVC projector if you like to watch movies in > 16:9 format or watch sports on big screen. When my ProScan goes I'm probably going to get one of them fancy flat panel displays and reclaim some floorspace in my bedroom. I figure the price will have come down a bit by then as well. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 12 22:09:47 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Removing physical blemishes from CRT? In-Reply-To: <200404130235.TAA02274@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Apr 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > It takes quite a bit of elbow grease but yes, it can be done. > Usually you use some 10 to 20 micron aluminum oxide to fine > grind until you are past the scratch. Then you use rouge or > cerium oxide to polish. It is a process similar to what we do > to make a telescope mirror. Do I have to worry about any heat build-up that might cause a fracture of some sort? So sounds good so far. Can I just go to the local telescope store and pick up the materials? Can I use my Dremel to do the polishing for me? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pat at computer-refuge.org Mon Apr 12 22:31:31 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Removing physical blemishes from CRT? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200404122231.31324.pat@computer-refuge.org> Vintage Computer Festival declared on Monday 12 April 2004 10:09 pm: > On Mon, 12 Apr 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > It takes quite a bit of elbow grease but yes, it can be done. > > Usually you use some 10 to 20 micron aluminum oxide to fine > > grind until you are past the scratch. Then you use rouge or > > cerium oxide to polish. It is a process similar to what we do > > to make a telescope mirror. > > Do I have to worry about any heat build-up that might cause a fracture > of some sort? Probably not if done by hand.. > So sounds good so far. Can I just go to the local telescope store and > pick up the materials? Can I use my Dremel to do the polishing for > me? On the other hand, Dremels are good at melting things with their super-fast motor. I'd recommend against using one. Anyways, with stuff as fine as the aluminum oxide and rouge, you shouldn't need (or want to use) anything electric to grind your monitor. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 12 23:57:05 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Removing physical blemishes from CRT? In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Apr 12, 4 06:43:11 pm Message-ID: > > > Although the CRT in question is off-topic, the question is fairly topical: > > Is there any way to remove physical blemishes from the face of a CRT? > I've got a very nice 19" SVGA display that has some scratches on the face. > They are somewhat invisible unless you happen to be looking at something > at that part of the screen (lower third, right of center). > > Can this be buffed out or ... ? > > I hope there's a way to do this because I've been wanting to fix the face > of my 35" ProScan TV that has the same problem. You barely notice it, but > it is slightly distracting when you do. If the scratches are minor, so the CRT faceplate is not significantly weakend, then there are kits available for polishing car windscreenss (Oh, OK, auto windshields, right?). They'd probably help. If the CRT faceplate is weakened, then replace that CRT before it implodes! -tony From phirkel at sympatico.ca Mon Apr 12 17:57:54 2004 From: phirkel at sympatico.ca (Philippe Vachon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Flight Simulator for IRIX Message-ID: <407B1EF2.4040009@sympatico.ca> Hi there folks. Way back in the day, 1992 or so, I used to play on my father's SGI Indigo R3000 at work (the very one which sits beside me at this time; the story about how I got it is pretty good, ask if you want to hear it) a flight simulator. The graphics were nothing special, but I do remember you could fire missiles at targets. Any other details are blurry now, especially since it has been 12 years since I played that game! I was wondering if anyone remembered such a game, and possibly it's name and maybe direct me in the direction as to where I could get a copy. If you have a copy to sell, I have a PayPal account and money in it to spend! Thank you! Phil. From esharpe at uswest.net Tue Apr 13 01:39:24 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: ***********Re: Paging Ed Sharpe References: Message-ID: <000901c42122$0f5acc70$046b6e44@SONYDIGITALED> yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 we need it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 7:37 PM Subject: Paging Ed Sharpe > > Ed, > > You've not responded to my messages regarding the DPS-6. At this point > I'm assuming you're not getting them for some reason, but if you don't > reply to this one by tomorrow then I'll assume you're no longer interested > and will go to the next in line. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From esharpe at uswest.net Tue Apr 13 02:04:33 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Paging Ed Sharpe References: Message-ID: <002701c42125$933eced0$046b6e44@SONYDIGITALED> Sellam: Yes we do want it! also if the odd pick processor is still avail if it has any Honeywell providence could use that too... it seems with all that drops in this email box I sometimes loose things.... ed sharpe archivist for smecc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 7:37 PM Subject: Paging Ed Sharpe > > Ed, > > You've not responded to my messages regarding the DPS-6. At this point > I'm assuming you're not getting them for some reason, but if you don't > reply to this one by tomorrow then I'll assume you're no longer interested > and will go to the next in line. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From vcf at siconic.com Tue Apr 13 02:49:32 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Looking for a slew of manuals ($$$) Message-ID: I'm seeking manuals for the following products for a client: Probe X [from the Strategic Software Group] HP GlancePlus HP PerfView HP OpenView IBM Tivoli IBM Netview Have you got these? Cool! Let's talk. Send me a message in private e-mail. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Apr 13 02:41:18 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Flight Simulator for IRIX In-Reply-To: <407B1EF2.4040009@sympatico.ca> References: <407B1EF2.4040009@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040413094118.45904202.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:57:54 -0400 Philippe Vachon wrote: > Way back in the day, 1992 or so, I used to play on my father's SGI > Indigo R3000 at work [...] a flight simulator. [...] > I was wondering if anyone remembered such a game, and possibly it's > name and maybe direct me in the direction as to where I could get a > copy. There comes a flight simulator with IRIX. It is in the "demos" package. Note that the demos are not included on newer IRIX 6.5 media sets. You need an older version of the IRIX 6.5 Applications CD to get the demos. Don't know about IRIX 5.x or 4.x. Ahh, I see it is an Indigo R3k, so IRIX 6.x is no help. Well, have a look at your IRIX 4.x or 5.x media. There should be some "demos*" files somwhere... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From torquil at chemist.com Tue Apr 13 03:06:54 2004 From: torquil at chemist.com (Torquil MacCorkle, III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Pre-R3000 SGIs Message-ID: <017501c4212e$4ece9470$0500a8c0@floyd> Does anyone have more information about the first SGI machines? I know they made m68k before the R2000. Anyone actually have one or have more information about SGIs 1980s (not 70s I presume?) history? -------- Thanks, Torquil MacCorkle, III Lexington, Virginia From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Apr 13 03:18:13 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Making foreign DOS boot floppies (IBM). In-Reply-To: <002501c420b8$bd8e2fe0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Apr 2004, John Allain wrote: > Nice. Looking up SYS.COM in the Ref (v3.3) manual: > "DOS statrup requires {(sic)IBMBIO.COM and IBMDOS.COM} > to occupy the first two directory entries, and because > IBMBIO.COM must start at the beginning of the data area of > the disk." that explains a lot. The older boot sectors loaded IO.SYS (IBMBIO.COM for PC-DOS) as first entry, using the cluster mapping found for the first entry in the root directory, and then the same for MSDOS.SYS (IBMDOS.COM for PC-DOS) using the second entry in that root directory. I do remember there was some level of magic checking- but afaik, they took that out fairly quickly. So, assuming a blank diskette: 1. Format it with FAT(-12) 2. Make *sure* the first two directory entries are blank, which includes no volume label being present (== dir entry !) 3. Copy those two files over. 4. Patch the boot sector. 5. Copy COMMAND.COM and any other files. This has always worked for me. But, yeah, as someone already pointed out, it is much easier to just archive bootable images of these diskettes :) --f From vcf at siconic.com Tue Apr 13 03:19:29 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: CLARIFICATION [Re: Looking for a slew of manuals ($$$)] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Apr 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I'm seeking manuals for the following products for a client: > > Probe X [from the Strategic Software Group] > HP GlancePlus > HP PerfView > HP OpenView > IBM Tivoli > IBM Netview The manuals should have copyrights in the 1990-1991 range. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From wmaddox at pacbell.net Tue Apr 13 04:17:51 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Removing physical blemishes from CRT? References: Message-ID: <006e01c42138$32121eb0$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Does the monitor have an anti-glare coating? The various suggestions posted for buffing out the damage would seem applicable to an ordinary glass screen such as I have seen on older/cheaper small-screen monitors, but most newer and large screen monitors have some kind of anti-glare coating. The best ones use a metallic coating that is easily damaged and looks bad when it is scratched off. You should conside whether removing it will make matters worse. Some cheaper anti-glare treatments just put a matte finish on the glass, and might not suffer quite so badly. --Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 6:43 PM Subject: Removing physical blemishes from CRT? > > Although the CRT in question is off-topic, the question is fairly topical: > > Is there any way to remove physical blemishes from the face of a CRT? > I've got a very nice 19" SVGA display that has some scratches on the face. > They are somewhat invisible unless you happen to be looking at something > at that part of the screen (lower third, right of center). > > Can this be buffed out or ... ? > > I hope there's a way to do this because I've been wanting to fix the face > of my 35" ProScan TV that has the same problem. You barely notice it, but > it is slightly distracting when you do. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From GOOI at oce.nl Tue Apr 13 07:05:00 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: blinkenlight console - not only for PDP's ! Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0FE6@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Hi all, I finally had some time to work on my "homebrew console" project. It is not yet finished, but the progress is significant enough to report to this group. I completed the wiring of the new sleak design PDP-11/35 console, and debugged the "firmware" of the Motorola M6802 microprocessor. After the console seemed to work as I wanted it (...) [using the built-in debug monitor], it was time to turn to the current SIMH version (3.2-0). I ported my previous thoughts of version 2.10 to this current release, and debugged a little more :-) The progress so far: 1) set the switches to any address, press "LOAD ADRS". result: the position of the switches appears on the ADDRESS LEDs. 2) set the switches [15:0] to any value, press "DEP". result: - the data is stored in the (previously loaded) address. - the data appears on the DATA LEDs. 3) press "EXAM" result: - the address is shown on the ADDRESS LEDs, - the data of this address is shown on the DATA LEDs. 4) when "EXAM" is pressed again after "EXAM" result: the next address is shown (address and data) 5) when "DEP" is pressed again after "DEP" result: the data is stored in the next address. 6) when "EXAM" and "DEP" are toggled following each other result: the address is not incremented. So, LOAD, EXAM, and DEP react as the REAL CONSOLE in combination with the patched SIMH software ! More testing will be done. I thought this progress was nice to mention here; the following items on my list are: - behaviour of CONT, HALT/ENABL, START (and S-STEP!) - ADDRESS and DATA LEDs update automatically when SIMH runs a PDP-11 OS. - shoot a short .mpg to show an "idle pattern" of the console when it is not connected, running in "stand-alone mode". Check www.pdp-11.nl and click the link [homebrew 'PDP-11'] at the left. NOTE: I built this console with my PDP-11/35 as example. PDP-11's are my focus of collecting ... The protocol used between the "front-end" and the SIMH software is simple. I do not see any reason why you cannot hook up a PDP-8 console or even any other blinkenlight console (e.g. HP-1000). I real console (from eBay, I do not support the thought of stripping a fine real machine just for the console ...!) could also be connected, it is just a matter of wiring the switches and the toggles. If there is sufficient interest, I *might* think of designing a lay-out of a single board that contains the CPU and the I/O. Depends on how many of you have interest in this project to keep the cost low. If somebody works where he/she has easy access to a PC lay-out program and etch option (double-sided PCB, with metalisation through the holes), I will gladly assist and provide answers for any related question. kind regards, - Henk, PA8PDP From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Apr 13 07:36:50 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: blinkenlight console - not only for PDP's ! In-Reply-To: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0FE6@hqvenlomail.oce.n l> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040413073625.035f7188@mail.ubanproductions.com> Nice job Henk! --tom From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue Apr 13 08:16:57 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Pre-R3000 SGIs In-Reply-To: <017501c4212e$4ece9470$0500a8c0@floyd> References: <017501c4212e$4ece9470$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: <200404130816.57882.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Tuesday 13 April 2004 03:06, Torquil MacCorkle, III wrote: > Does anyone have more information about the first SGI machines? I > know they made m68k before the R2000. Anyone actually have one or > have more information about SGIs 1980s (not 70s I presume?) history? Well, since the Mot 68k didn't exist in the 70s (unlike the 6800), yes, it would have been the 80s. :) Other than that, I'm not of much help however. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From cara.keir at nessco.co.uk Tue Apr 13 04:24:16 2004 From: cara.keir at nessco.co.uk (Cara Keir) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: 12/1148 Message-ID: <000601c42139$19802ee0$2d1ea8c0@test.nessco.co.uk> I am looking for 1 x part number 21-17311-01 cpu1 processor. Our company is based in the UK. Can you supply this part. Best Regards Cara Keir Internal Sales On behalf of Nessco Limited Tel no: +44 1224 414143 Fax no: +44 1224 414192 Email:? cara.keir@nessco.co.uk "The information contained in this message is sent in the strictest confidence and may contain confidential or privileged information intended for use of the addressee only.? If you have received this message in error please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender immediately." From Stephen_R_Gentry at LafayetteLife.com Tue Apr 13 08:42:24 2004 From: Stephen_R_Gentry at LafayetteLife.com (Stephen_R_Gentry@LafayetteLife.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: AIX PS/2 v1.2 - four sets of 3.5" floppies in binders Message-ID: Jack, hello. I came across a rather old email regarding aix for ps/2 that you apparently owned. I'm contacting you on the slim chance to see if you still had these items and if so, are they still for sale? Thanks, Steve Gentry From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Apr 13 08:49:22 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: blinkenlight console - not only for PDP's ! References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0FE6@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Message-ID: <16507.61410.349000.794984@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Gooijen" == Gooijen H writes: Gooijen> If there is sufficient interest, I *might* think of Gooijen> designing a lay-out of a single board that contains the CPU Gooijen> and the I/O. Depends on how many of you have interest in Gooijen> this project to keep the cost low. If somebody works where Gooijen> he/she has easy access to a PC lay-out program and etch Gooijen> option (double-sided PCB, with metalisation through the Gooijen> holes), I will gladly assist and provide answers for any Gooijen> related question. Henk, A couple of options, one I know, one I don't yet: Cadsoft (www.cadsoft.de or www.cadsoftusa.com) has a nice PCB CAD tool (Eagle CAD). There's a freeware version, but it's limited in schematic and PCB size. There's also a low cost non-profit version that's still somewhat limited but a lot less, it might work for you. I've been using an older version for some time now, it's quite a nice product. There's also www.pcb123.com, which is a PCB shop that offers a freeware PCB tool to go with their service. I think the trick is that it's tied to their PCB fab, but their prices don't seem to be fairly reasonable. I haven't tried that yet. That one doesn't seem to have any size limits. paul From aek at spies.com Tue Apr 13 09:04:18 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Pre-R3000 SGIs Message-ID: <200404131404.i3DE4I2Y029970@spies.com> SGI started out as a startup based on Jim Clark's Geometry Engine work at Stanford in the early 80's. The earliest products were based on the SUN (Stanford University Network) CPU board design with some enhancements. http://futuretech.mirror.vuurwerk.net/iris-faq.html appears to be the only copy of the original FAQ I helped with years ago. From brad at heeltoe.com Tue Apr 13 09:09:58 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Pre-R3000 SGIs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:16:57 CDT." <200404130816.57882.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <200404131409.i3DE9wq15796@mwave.heeltoe.com> Patrick Finnegan wrote: >On Tuesday 13 April 2004 03:06, Torquil MacCorkle, III wrote: >> Does anyone have more information about the first SGI machines? I >> know they made m68k before the R2000. Anyone actually have one or >> have more information about SGIs 1980s (not 70s I presume?) history? > >Well, since the Mot 68k didn't exist in the 70s (unlike the 6800), yes, >it would have been the 80s. :) Other than that, I'm not of much help >however. As I recall Dr. Clarks "geometry engine" was early '80s. I remember watching VTI video tapes in 1983/4 where he talked about the graphics pipeline. That chip went into the first SGI workstations (which were, as I recall 68000 based, probably 68010 or 68020) and powers the "flight simulator". I believe there were multiple versions of the simulator, with the later ones allowing two machine to connect over ethernet and dogfight. -brad From vrs at msn.com Tue Apr 13 09:12:52 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: blinkenlight console - not only for PDP's ! References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0FE6@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> <16507.61410.349000.794984@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: > Cadsoft (www.cadsoft.de or www.cadsoftusa.com) has a nice PCB CAD tool > (Eagle CAD). There's a freeware version, but it's limited in > schematic and PCB size. There's also a low cost non-profit version > that's still somewhat limited but a lot less, it might work for you. > I've been using an older version for some time now, it's quite a nice > product. I use this (and like it) too. Also, I bought the unlimited version, so I can lay out arbitrarily large PCBs (did a TC08 backplane layout recently). I could probably be arm-twisted to lay out the combo board (especially if the two smaller boards have already been done). I also have some (limited) experience using Eagle to generate the files needed by a board fab. > There's also www.pcb123.com, which is a PCB shop that offers a > freeware PCB tool to go with their service. I think the trick is that > it's tied to their PCB fab, but their prices don't seem to be fairly > reasonable. I haven't tried that yet. That one doesn't seem to have > any size limits. I tried this, but didn't like it well enough to offset the tie to their fab. In particular, I was worried that classic computer stuff would outlive the company that does pcb123. With Eagle, at least I have the installation media and a (perpetual) license, so I should be able to use any future fab I need to. Vince From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Apr 13 09:36:30 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: blinkenlight console - not only for PDP's ! References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0FE6@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> <16507.61410.349000.794984@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <16507.64238.246000.575629@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "vrs" == vrs writes: >> Cadsoft (www.cadsoft.de or www.cadsoftusa.com) has a nice PCB CAD >> tool (Eagle CAD). There's a freeware version, but it's limited in >> schematic and PCB size. There's also a low cost non-profit >> version that's still somewhat limited but a lot less, it might >> work for you. I've been using an older version for some time now, >> it's quite a nice product. vrs> I use this (and like it) too. Also, I bought the unlimited vrs> version, so I can lay out arbitrarily large PCBs (did a TC08 vrs> backplane layout recently). I could probably be arm-twisted to vrs> lay out the combo board (especially if the two smaller boards vrs> have already been done). I also have some (limited) experience vrs> using Eagle to generate the files needed by a board fab. I've done one board to date. That one was done by a fab shop that takes Eagle files directly. Very handy -- I just shipped the .BRD file to them and they took care of the rest. paul From lbickley at bickleywest.com Tue Apr 13 09:38:35 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Pre-R3000 SGIs In-Reply-To: <017501c4212e$4ece9470$0500a8c0@floyd> References: <017501c4212e$4ece9470$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: <200404130738.35983.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Here's a couple of SGI oriented Web Sites that will get you some good historical and technical information: http://sgistuff.g-lenerz.de/hardware/machines/index.html http://futuretech.mirror.vuurwerk.net/sgi.html Cheers, Lyle > On Tuesday 13 April 2004 01:06, Torquil MacCorkle, III wrote: > Does anyone have more information about the first SGI machines? I know > they made m68k before the R2000. Anyone actually have one or have more > information about SGIs 1980s (not 70s I presume?) history? > > -------- > Thanks, > Torquil MacCorkle, III > Lexington, Virginia -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From vrs at msn.com Tue Apr 13 10:16:21 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: blinkenlight console - not only for PDP's ! References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0FE6@hqvenlomail.oce.nl><16507.61410.349000.794984@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <16507.64238.246000.575629@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: > vrs> I use this (and like it) too. Also, I bought the unlimited > vrs> version, so I can lay out arbitrarily large PCBs (did a TC08 > vrs> backplane layout recently). I could probably be arm-twisted to > vrs> lay out the combo board (especially if the two smaller boards > vrs> have already been done). I also have some (limited) experience > vrs> using Eagle to generate the files needed by a board fab. > > I've done one board to date. That one was done by a fab shop that > takes Eagle files directly. Very handy -- I just shipped the .BRD > file to them and they took care of the rest. I've done two, and the board shop wanted Gerber files and an Excellon drill file. They are not hard to generate, but it took me a little while to figure out how the first time. They were the M452 and W076 replacement cards (which are still available :-)). Vince From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Apr 13 10:48:49 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Flash point, laser fuser and lubrication Message-ID: <20040413154848.GD224@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Last night, I made the mistake of putting some 3-in-1 oil (yes, I know, it's not a good lubricant) in the bushings around the teflon roller (that the heater lamp runs through) in my Laserjet II when I disassembled the fuser to replace a worn 14-tooth gear. I should have done a more thorough disassembly and used grease rated for use with high temperatures... anyway, what concerns me is the low flash point for the 3-in-1 (if what's in the can I used is the same as the spray; the spray is all I could find data for, flash point about 101 degrees F). When the printer warms up for a few seconds, there's some smoke. I was thinking that it might just smoke a bit and then eventually stop smoking, but I remember, all too well, the time I accidentally spilled some motor oil on a hot exhaust manifold when I stopped at a service station on the way to pick up my PDP-11/73 system years ago... fortunately a rag was able to be used to put out the flames, and I do mean big bright yellow flames, quickly before any damage was done. Is this 3-in-1 oil likely to do the same thing in the fuser assembly? If it wasn't raining outside, I'd be tempted to put said oil on an old fuser assembly with a scratched up roller, with all useable parts removed, take it outside, apply power to it, and see what happens. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Apr 13 11:37:25 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Removing physical blemishes from CRT? Message-ID: <200404131637.JAA02819@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > >On Mon, 12 Apr 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >> It takes quite a bit of elbow grease but yes, it can be done. >> Usually you use some 10 to 20 micron aluminum oxide to fine >> grind until you are past the scratch. Then you use rouge or >> cerium oxide to polish. It is a process similar to what we do >> to make a telescope mirror. > >Do I have to worry about any heat build-up that might cause a fracture of >some sort? > >So sounds good so far. Can I just go to the local telescope store and >pick up the materials? Can I use my Dremel to do the polishing for me? > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > Hi Sellam You might check at places like stained glass supply stores or places the do beveled glass. They have polishing compounds that are designed to be used with a buffing wheel. The technics I used are designed to end up with a surface that is smooth to less than 1/8 wavelength of light. You don't need anything like that for a screen. Most telescope stores don't have supplies for doing mirrors. I mail order my supplies from places like Newport Glass or William-Bell. Check with places that sell and repair window glass. If they don't have anything there, they'll at least know where to get it. Dwight From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Apr 13 11:55:05 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Removing physical blemishes from CRT? Message-ID: <200404131655.JAA02830@clulw009.amd.com> Hi If it is a TV, the front is a protective glass and is not under the tension of the vacuum. Most CRT's for scopes expect there to be a plastic ridicule in front to protect, so doesn't have any protective glass. The glass used on TV's is ordinary plate glass and not tempered so it can handle scratches without failing. Even a crack will not propagate to the inside glass. Dwight >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk >> >> >> >> Although the CRT in question is off-topic, the question is fairly topical: >> >> Is there any way to remove physical blemishes from the face of a CRT? >> I've got a very nice 19" SVGA display that has some scratches on the face. >> They are somewhat invisible unless you happen to be looking at something >> at that part of the screen (lower third, right of center). >> >> Can this be buffed out or ... ? >> >> I hope there's a way to do this because I've been wanting to fix the face >> of my 35" ProScan TV that has the same problem. You barely notice it, but >> it is slightly distracting when you do. > >If the scratches are minor, so the CRT faceplate is not significantly >weakend, then there are kits available for polishing car windscreenss >(Oh, OK, auto windshields, right?). They'd probably help. > >If the CRT faceplate is weakened, then replace that CRT before it implodes! > >-tony > From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Apr 13 12:03:29 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Removing physical blemishes from CRT? Message-ID: <200404131703.KAA02837@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Bill This is a good point. Any polishing will stand out unless the entire surface is polished. One might even try getting a little varithane mat finish on a rag and wipe a little over the scratch. Then wipe around it with some thinner to remove any excess. It doesn't have exactly the same index of refraction but it would help hide the scratch. Dwight >From: "William Maddox" > >Does the monitor have an anti-glare coating? The various suggestions >posted for buffing out the damage would seem applicable to an ordinary >glass screen such as I have seen on older/cheaper small-screen monitors, >but most newer and large screen monitors have some kind of anti-glare >coating. The best ones use a metallic coating that is easily damaged and >looks bad when it is scratched off. You should conside whether removing >it will make matters worse. Some cheaper anti-glare treatments just put a >matte finish on the glass, and might not suffer quite so badly. > >--Bill > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" >To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" >Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 6:43 PM >Subject: Removing physical blemishes from CRT? > > >> >> Although the CRT in question is off-topic, the question is fairly topical: >> >> Is there any way to remove physical blemishes from the face of a CRT? >> I've got a very nice 19" SVGA display that has some scratches on the face. >> They are somewhat invisible unless you happen to be looking at something >> at that part of the screen (lower third, right of center). >> >> Can this be buffed out or ... ? >> >> I hope there's a way to do this because I've been wanting to fix the face >> of my 35" ProScan TV that has the same problem. You barely notice it, but >> it is slightly distracting when you do. >> >> -- >> >> Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org >> >> [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >> [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Apr 13 12:16:27 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: blinkenlight console - not only for PDP's ! References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0FE6@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> <16507.61410.349000.794984@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <407C206B.8050003@jetnet.ab.ca> Paul Koning wrote: > A couple of options, one I know, one I don't yet: > > Cadsoft (www.cadsoft.de or www.cadsoftusa.com) has a nice PCB CAD tool > (Eagle CAD). There's a freeware version, but it's limited in > schematic and PCB size. There's also a low cost non-profit version > that's still somewhat limited but a lot less, it might work for you. > I've been using an older version for some time now, it's quite a nice > product. I just checked the site, there is no Hobbiest pricing there. I guess the state of of homebrew now days is a PIC and a few leds on 2x3 inch board. > There's also www.pcb123.com, which is a PCB shop that offers a > freeware PCB tool to go with their service. I think the trick is that > it's tied to their PCB fab, but their prices don't seem to be fairly > reasonable. I haven't tried that yet. That one doesn't seem to have > any size limits. From my quick reading, it does not have a schematic entry program. > paul Also what platform is needed for PCB design too. If you dig on the web you can still find easytrax's for DOS. Ben. From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Apr 13 12:56:46 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:48 2005 Subject: Removing physical blemishes from CRT? References: <200404131655.JAA02830@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <16508.10718.330000.121530@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Dwight" == Dwight K Elvey writes: Dwight> Hi If it is a TV, the front is a protective glass and is not Dwight> under the tension of the vacuum. I think that was true in 1960; I don't believe it is true now. paul From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Apr 13 13:06:23 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Flash point, laser fuser and lubrication In-Reply-To: <20040413154848.GD224@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040413154848.GD224@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20040413180622.GE224@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe R. D. Davis, from writings of Tue, Apr 13, 2004 at 11:48:49AM -0400: > for the 3-in-1 (if what's in the can I used is the same as the spray; > the spray is all I could find data for, flash point about 101 degrees > F). Correction. I just learned that the flash point for 3-in-1 oil is 305 degrees Fahrenheit. If I recall correctly, the Laserjet II's fuser is heated to 320 degrees F., so... still, not good. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Apr 13 13:04:09 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Making foreign DOS boot floppies (IBM). In-Reply-To: <002501c420b8$bd8e2fe0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <002501c420b8$bd8e2fe0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20040412181617.Y98424@newshell.lmi.net> Hi John, Sorry that I'm late checking in; I've got a bad teaching schedule) The biggest problem that shows up is that the boot sector is slightly different for a bootable disk, and the two hidden system files must be in certain places AND must be the first two DIRectory entries, rather than being controlled by the usual DIRectory data. Thus, it is very difficult to add bootability once any files are written to the disk. The SIMPLEST and EASIEST way to be able to produce bootable floppies of multiple DOS versions is to keep a write-protected bootable floppy on hand of each and every version. Then, when you need a disk, DISKCOPY the bootable floppy onto the blank, instead of FORMATting it. (Or, if you have multiple floppy drives, the newer versions of SYS.COM [starting with which version?] will permit you to FORMAT and then SYS B: A: (early versions of SYS could only SYS a diskette with version of DOS that was currently running)) That way (keeping a collection of floppy samples), you never need to reboot your machine into a different version (which could lock you out of access to hard disk, etc. since DOS <3.31 can not comprehend volumes > 32M) You do NOT need two floppy drives to DISKCOPY. If you ask for DISKCOPY A: A: then the system will prompt you to swap the diskettes. On earlier versions of DOS/DISKCOPY, that can mean a LOT of swapping. But you CAN DISKCOPY an early diskette with a more current version of DOS/DISKCOPY running. The down side of that technique is that you need to store a few dozen floppies. If you use SYS, then you COULD use a hard-drive partition for each version. If you are willing to use non-MICROS~1 software, then there are programs that will permit storing a diskette image and writing that to floppy, which would permit storing images of your collection of boot disks, rather than physical floppies. You could also do that using DEBUG (the most powerful program to ever come from MICROS~1). Figure out how much of a bootable floppy is actually used (for the sake of the following, let's call that 64 sectors) With the bootable floppy for version x.yz in drive A:, type: L 100 0 0 40 (Read 64 physical sectors (64 = 40h) from A:) N C:bootdisk.xyz (arbitrary naming scheme) R CX (set size) 8000 (64 sectors holds 32768 bytes = 8000h) W (save 8000h bytes to file To create a boot disk (from a FORMATted disk): N C:bootdisk.xyz (select file) L (load file) W 100 0 0 40 (write to physical sectors of floppy) NOTE: when learning DEBUG, you will probably accidentally erase your harddisk. We will not be responsible for errors. If you are dealing with diskettes that are NOT MS-DOS formats, then you need to use other techniques. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Apr 13 13:26:14 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: blinkenlight console - not only for PDP's ! References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0FE6@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> <16507.61410.349000.794984@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <407C206B.8050003@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <16508.12486.694147.269887@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "ben" == ben franchuk writes: ben> Paul Koning wrote: >> A couple of options, one I know, one I don't yet: >> >> Cadsoft (www.cadsoft.de or www.cadsoftusa.com) has a nice PCB CAD >> tool (Eagle CAD). There's a freeware version, but it's limited in >> schematic and PCB size. There's also a low cost non-profit >> version that's still somewhat limited but a lot less, it might >> work for you. I've been using an older version for some time now, >> it's quite a nice product. ben> I just checked the site, there is no Hobbiest pricing there. I ben> guess the state of of homebrew now days is a PIC and a few leds ben> on 2x3 inch board. I'm confused. Free version: http://www.cadsoftusa.com/freeware.htm Low cost hobbyist version: http://www.cadsoftusa.com/nonprofit.htm paul From vrs at msn.com Tue Apr 13 13:31:40 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: blinkenlight console - not only for PDP's ! References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0FE6@hqvenlomail.oce.nl><16507.61410.349000.794984@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <407C206B.8050003@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > > Cadsoft (www.cadsoft.de or www.cadsoftusa.com) has a nice PCB CAD tool > > (Eagle CAD). There's a freeware version, but it's limited in > > schematic and PCB size. There's also a low cost non-profit version > > that's still somewhat limited but a lot less, it might work for you. > > I've been using an older version for some time now, it's quite a nice > > product. > > I just checked the site, there is no Hobbiest pricing there. > I guess the state of of homebrew now days is a PIC and a few leds > on 2x3 inch board. The Freeware version is the hobby version. The next level up is the "Non-Profit" version. Beyond that they assume you are doing real work (that pays for itself somehow) and want you to subsidize their development with real $$$ for licensing. I checked the website, and the Freeware and Non-Profit licenses are both still available at www.cadsoftusa.com. Vince From tomj at wps.com Tue Apr 13 13:41:37 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Making foreign DOS boot floppies (IBM). In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Apr 2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > The older boot sectors loaded IO.SYS (IBMBIO.COM for PC-DOS) as > first entry, using the cluster mapping found for the first entry > in the root directory, and then the same for MSDOS.SYS (IBMDOS.COM > for PC-DOS) using the second entry in that root directory. I do > remember there was some level of magic checking- but afaik, they > took that out fairly quickly. Umm, it was even simpler than that. Considered as a string of sectors, the diskette is boot, fat?, dir?, data. Boot+dir+FAT is a fixed number of sectors, therefore, on a new, blank diskette the first data sector is N. The boot loader simply has to load 64K (see below) of data from the diskette starting at sector N, and jump to 10:0 or whatever that address is/was. Copying IO.SYS and MSDOS.SYS sequentially to a newly-formatted floppy guarenteed that the sectors were contiguous starting with the first data sector, eg. not scattered around the disk. The 512-byte boot loader didn't have to parse the directory or FAT, just load sectors starting with N. Filenames only mattered to FORMAT, SYS and other runtime stuff, not the boot loader. Boot code that knew about multiple diskette formats (SSSD, SSDD, DSDD) used the first byte of the first FAT sector to ID the format, aka the FATID, this determined N, the starting sector for the boot load. "64K" isn't a mistake or typo. I've long since forgotten the constraints on BIOS and MSDOS.SYS size, but at least in DOS 3.x days you were guarenteed that BIOS+MSDOS.SYS < 64K. (64K being of course the limitation of then-extant DMA chips address range. Most of the hardware I worked on had the DMA controller address lines 0 - 15 mapped to CPU physical 0 - 15, and a "page" register selected the upper address bits, eg. it didn't "segment" like the CPU. I coded my drivers such that it DMA'd data directly into user space by normalizing the address to absolute, for requests that didn't cross a module 64K boundary; those that did had the violating sector read into a BIOS buffer and block-moved, no way around that.) IBM added non-boot-loader proprietary junk to the boot sector, including the string "IBM CORP" or something and refused to boot non-IBM DOS. All the partition stuff got added after I left the scene. The boot sector used to actually contain BOOT CODE INSTRUCTIONS, I assume that's no longer the case. Later booters also learned how to read FATs and dirs and read non-contiguous IO.SYS and all that. > > So, assuming a blank diskette: > > 1. Format it with FAT(-12) > 2. Make *sure* the first two directory entries are blank, which > includes no volume label being present (== dir entry !) > 3. Copy those two files over. > 4. Patch the boot sector. > 5. Copy COMMAND.COM and any other files. > > This has always worked for me. But, yeah, as someone already > pointed out, it is much easier to just archive bootable images > of these diskettes :) > > --f > From cb at mythtech.net Tue Apr 13 13:43:18 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Flash point, laser fuser and lubrication Message-ID: >Correction. I just learned that the flash point for 3-in-1 oil is 305 >degrees Fahrenheit. If I recall correctly, the Laserjet II's fuser is >heated to 320 degrees F., so... still, not good. put a little on a non flammable surface (like concrete), just a small amount (comparable to what you put on the fuser)... touch a match to it. If it doesn't ignite, you should be good to go on the fuser. Matches burn hotter than 305 degrees. (do NOT do this test on a flammable surface or with anything like a cup or cap of oil... given enough fuel/O2 mix, the match will ignite the oil, and not in a very nice manner) You may not have sufficient fuel to start a chemical reaction. Unless you soaked the part in oil. However, regardless of the flammability... its going to smoke, and that's neither going to smell good, or be very healthy. So you'll probably want to break it down, clean it, and replace it with a high temp grease anyway. -chris From tomj at wps.com Tue Apr 13 13:50:02 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Making foreign DOS boot floppies (IBM). In-Reply-To: <002501c420b8$bd8e2fe0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <002501c420b8$bd8e2fe0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Apr 2004, John Allain wrote: > Nice. Looking up SYS.COM in the Ref (v3.3) manual: > "DOS statrup requires {(sic)IBMBIO.COM and IBMDOS.COM} > to occupy the first two directory entries, and because > IBMBIO.COM must start at the beginning of the data area of > the disk." that explains a lot. MSDOS PCDOS machine-specific IO code IO.SYS IBMBIO.COM Microsoft-provided OS code MSDOS.SYS IBMDOS.COM > But, format/b documentation confusingly mentions > that the floppy is also formattted 8 sectors per track. > Sounds almost wrong -- the capacity doesn't change > for example. Probably vestigial from very early machines that could not boot 360K diskettes, only 320K? 5" diskettes went to 9 sectors/track some time after the machine's release, I forget the PCDOS version. The 8spt was a very conservative choice, in fact a little odd, as the 9th sector always fit. There were four diskette flavors, single and double sided, 8 and 9 sectors/track. Clearly only double-sided/9spt survived. (My personal MSDOS 3.x machine was a multibuss box with 8" drives that took all the standard permutations but also a 1024 byte 9 sector format that gave me a LOT of storage, nearly 1.5Mbytes/diskette. Wowee zowee.) From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Apr 13 14:07:56 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Making foreign DOS boot floppies (IBM). In-Reply-To: <013501c420a7$a4fd2fa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <200404110011.i3B0BGiB028709@spies.com> <013501c420a7$a4fd2fa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20040413120005.T29419@newshell.lmi.net> Sorry, I didn't notice that John was explicitly talking only about "high density" 3.5" diskettes. That reduces the number substantially, to: 3.30 3.31 4.00 4.01 5.00 6.00 6.10 6.20 6.21 6.22 7.00 7.10 only one of which (3.30) is limited to <32M hard drive, but all but one (7.10) are limited to 2G hard drive When I said "you" in talking about learning DEBUG, I was NOT referring to John; I meant any beginner who would try to do those steps without understanding them. From allain at panix.com Tue Apr 13 14:37:38 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: truckload of PDP stuff References: Message-ID: <011001c4218e$c834e980$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >>> Did anyone check on this and follow up (My previous post > I also attempted contact via e-Mail...multiple times...no response. I must have the right touch. The prime eBay/eMail contact was pretty dead in the beginning (giving Sorry's to my questions) but he did give this... call "610-825-4748 to make arrangements, ask for Pete" more info just now... Pete (and later Brian) told me that there are: "both pdp 11/40s and 34s. We have about 5 processors and other assorted parts." and then "There is also at least 1 DECpack" all on pallets. Other details: they are de-racked and the former spare time gizmos of Pete, who found he didn't have the time to play... sound like a little under 1 ton. John A. share and enjoy. mmmm 34's.... From allain at panix.com Tue Apr 13 14:57:27 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Making foreign DOS boot floppies (IBM). References: <002501c420b8$bd8e2fe0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <20040412181617.Y98424@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <014301c42191$8c556e00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I should be doing my taxes right now so TIA: "Thanks, Fred" Quick notes: Diskcopy sounds almost useful, thx. Debug dangerous? I had a similar mishap yesterday while trying to find the command with the undocumented /mbr switch (sub-problem: mbrs are only for HD's). Surprise, surprise, the MasterBootRecord action is unprompting! There is no "Would you like to fry your HardDrive? [y/n]" question, just the direct action. Luckily my NortonAV caught it. Oddly the system wouldn't warmboot afterwards. So, after getting all the pieces together for a system re-build, including second harddrive, letting my blood pressure go down, and cold booting, the problem was just smoke, thankfully. I'm doing all this to get a nice NEC laptop going. Will probably get back to that in 3 days. John A. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Apr 13 15:00:46 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Making foreign DOS boot floppies (IBM). In-Reply-To: References: <002501c420b8$bd8e2fe0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20040413123803.F29419@newshell.lmi.net> > > But, format/b documentation confusingly mentions > > that the floppy is also formattted 8 sectors per track. > > Sounds almost wrong -- the capacity doesn't change > > for example. On Tue, 13 Apr 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > Probably vestigial from very early machines that could not boot > 360K diskettes, only 320K? Close It was for people running DOS 1.xx, which couldn't understand 9 SPT. Have you ever found a machine that could boot 320K diskettes, but could not boot 360K? The /B option was intended for software distribution. It made for a diskette readable by 1.xx and 2.xx, that could be later converted to bootable, WITHOUT sending a copy of [copyrighted] DOS on it. > 5" diskettes went to 9 sectors/track some time after the > machine's release, I forget the PCDOS version. 2.00 (PC-DOS 1.10/MS-DOS 1.25 were double sided 8 sector) > The 8spt was a very conservative choice, in fact a little odd, as the > 9th sector always fit. and some folk squeezed 10! It was TOO conservative. > There were four diskette flavors, > single and double sided, 8 and 9 sectors/track. Clearly only > double-sided/9spt survived. and now nobody accepts the existence of anything other than "1.44M" (1.40625M) > (My personal MSDOS 3.x machine was a multibuss box with 8" > drives that took all the standard permutations but also a > 1024 byte 9 sector format that gave me a LOT of storage, > nearly 1.5Mbytes/diskette. Wowee zowee.) I kept most of my 8" at 512 bytes per sector, which at 15 sectors per track left me with 1.2M. But in those days, that was immense! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Apr 13 15:42:56 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Flash point, laser fuser and lubrication In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040413204256.GF224@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe chris, from writings of Tue, Apr 13, 2004 at 02:43:18PM -0400: > put a little on a non flammable surface (like concrete), just a small > amount (comparable to what you put on the fuser)... touch a match to it. > If it doesn't ignite, you should be good to go on the fuser. Matches burn Thanks for the helpful info! Earlier this afternoon, I got through to someone at WD40 (they now own 3-in-one), who had a good understanding of the product, who told me that it was nothing to worry about, just to expect more smoke for a while. > However, regardless of the flammability... its going to smoke, and that's > neither going to smell good, or be very healthy. So you'll probably want > to break it down, clean it, and replace it with a high temp grease anyway. Yes, that's what I should do. Tempting not to bother with all that, but I should. From the old cars that I drive, I'm used to smells like burning oil, so that doesn't bother me. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Tue Apr 13 15:43:21 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: 12/1148 References: <000601c42139$19802ee0$2d1ea8c0@test.nessco.co.uk> Message-ID: <407C50E9.B938C156@compsys.to> >Cara Keir wrote: > I am looking for 1 x part number 21-17311-01 cpu1 processor. > Our company is based in the UK. > Can you supply this part. > Best Regards > Cara Keir > Internal Sales > On behalf of Nessco Limited > Tel no: +44 1224 414143 Fax no: +44 1224 414192 > Email: cara.keir@nessco.co.uk Jerome Fine replies: Can you please specify this part number? It sounds like the CPU chip for a PDP-11/23, but I do not have one in my hand to check it? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Tue Apr 13 15:44:03 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Contact Ethan Dicks Message-ID: <407C5113.64EFD189@compsys.to> Hi Ethan, I have tried to send you a private e-mail, but it is rejected? From charlesb at otcgaming.net Tue Apr 13 15:54:17 2004 From: charlesb at otcgaming.net (charlesb@otcgaming.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Assorted free comms gear etc. (Milton Keynes, UK) References: <1081803209.9606.23.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <002101c42199$7f882c00$7dc3033e@thunder> The rack system looks interesting, any chance u could grab a couple of digi cam snapshots of it ? direct reply is fine, it sounds like somehting i'm trying to replace, and in the case of these "old" computers, spares are always useful :D ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jules Richardson" To: "On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 9:53 PM Subject: Assorted free comms gear etc. (Milton Keynes, UK) > Hi, > > Somebody dropped off the following items (operational condition unknown) > to the Bletchley Park computer museum the other week which we can't > really make any use of: > > Two Racal Milgo Omnimux 82 advanced statistical multiplexors > > An ACT SDM-T (seems to convert several analogue phone lines to > digital) > > An X-TEC Protocol Converter > > A Wellfleet Access Node Communications Server > > Large industrial rack system with 5" VGA display, Colorado 1440 tape > drive, 3.5" floppy, PSU, and a huge backplane containing 4 PCI slots and > 15 ISA slots. We actually have two units, but may be keeping the screen > from one of them as it could prove useful for something at a later date > - maybe the backplane and chassis is still useful to someone though. I > believe there's the PC-on-a-card board kicking around the office from > one of the racks, the other one arrived with a bare backplane though. > > They're free to a good home; comms gear isn't really my thing so I just > grabbed what was on the front labels - if any of the above sounds like > it could be useful to anyone I can always get more details as to exact > model numbers, what interfaces they have etc. > > cheers > > Jules > > > From tony.eros at machm.org Tue Apr 13 16:00:28 2004 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: truckload of PDP stuff In-Reply-To: <011001c4218e$c834e980$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <200404132100.RAA20286@smtp.9netave.com> I'm about 45 minutes from this location and would be willing to help coordinate pickup and staging if we wanted to try to do a bulk buy. What do you all think would be the best way to proceed? -- Tony -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Allain Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 3:38 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: truckload of PDP stuff >>> Did anyone check on this and follow up (My previous post > I also attempted contact via e-Mail...multiple times...no response. I must have the right touch. The prime eBay/eMail contact was pretty dead in the beginning (giving Sorry's to my questions) but he did give this... call "610-825-4748 to make arrangements, ask for Pete" more info just now... Pete (and later Brian) told me that there are: "both pdp 11/40s and 34s. We have about 5 processors and other assorted parts." and then "There is also at least 1 DECpack" all on pallets. Other details: they are de-racked and the former spare time gizmos of Pete, who found he didn't have the time to play... sound like a little under 1 ton. John A. share and enjoy. mmmm 34's.... From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Apr 13 16:03:48 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: blinkenlight console - not only for PDP's ! References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0FE6@hqvenlomail.oce.nl><16507.61410.349000.794984@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <407C206B.8050003@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <407C55B4.9060704@jetnet.ab.ca> vrs wrote: > The Freeware version is the hobby version. The next level up is the > "Non-Profit" version. Beyond that they assume you are doing real work (that > pays for itself somehow) and want you to subsidize their development with > real $$$ for licensing. Well my homebrew computer uses about 125 TTL ( We don't need no stinking VLSI ) that I plan to build with the CPU on about 6 6 x 8 inch PCB's. That layout sounds like real work to me. The price of the software buys a lot of TTL. From brad at heeltoe.com Tue Apr 13 17:32:43 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: blinkenlight console - not only for PDP's ! In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:36:30 EDT." <16507.64238.246000.575629@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200404132232.i3DMWil20201@mwave.heeltoe.com> Paul Koning wrote: >>>>>> "vrs" == vrs writes: > > >> Cadsoft (www.cadsoft.de or www.cadsoftusa.com) has a nice PCB CAD > >> tool (Eagle CAD). There's a freeware version, but it's limited in > >> schematic and PCB size. There's also a low cost non-profit > >> version that's still somewhat limited but a lot less, it might > >> work for you. I've been using an older version for some time now, > >> it's quite a nice product. I've used eagle for a number of pcb's, from 2 layer to 6 layer. Works great and runs under linux... I don't do anything too complex - it works and I like it. -brad From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Apr 13 17:59:45 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Flash point, laser fuser and lubrication In-Reply-To: "R. D. Davis" "Flash point, laser fuser and lubrication" (Apr 13, 11:48) References: <20040413154848.GD224@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <10404132359.ZM1671@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 13, 11:48, R. D. Davis wrote: > Last night, I made the mistake of putting some 3-in-1 oil (yes, I > know, it's not a good lubricant) in the bushings around the teflon > roller (that the heater lamp runs through) in my Laserjet II when I > disassembled the fuser to replace a worn 14-tooth gear. I should have > done a more thorough disassembly and used grease rated for use with > high temperatures... anyway, what concerns me is the low flash point > for the 3-in-1 (if what's in the can I used is the same as the spray; > the spray is all I could find data for, flash point about 101 degrees > F). 3-in-1 oil is a perfectly good light machine oil. It *is* a good lubricant -- for the things it was designed for. You shouldn't have used it where you did, but neither should you have used grease; teflon bearings are designed to run dry against polished steel. I'd expect the flash point of the spray is so low because of the propellant. The flash point of the oil itself will be much higher. However, you don't really want it in there. The best thing to do is to disassemble it again and wipe off as much as you can. If necessary, white spirit (turpentine substitute) will wash out the residue. Sorry, I don't know what white spirit is called in the States, it's similar to kerosene but lighter and leaves no residue. It's most often used here for thinning oil-based paints, or cleaning paint brushes. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From vrs at msn.com Tue Apr 13 18:01:39 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: blinkenlight console - not only for PDP's ! References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0FE6@hqvenlomail.oce.nl><16507.61410.349000.794984@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <407C206B.8050003@jetnet.ab.ca> <407C55B4.9060704@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > Well my homebrew computer uses about 125 TTL ( We don't need no stinking > VLSI ) that I plan to build with the CPU on about 6 6 x 8 inch PCB's. > That layout sounds like real work to me. The price of the software buys > a lot of TTL. Well, If you can settle for 4 x 6 inches (roughly), you can get everything needed for $125. That seems not too bad to me, for software I actually like to use, as opposed to "can get by with". Agreed, the $1200 (that I paid) for the unlimited version is a ton of money for software. (Maybe you are the target audience for PCB123 :-).) On the other hand, I was just not impressed with the alternatives to Eagle. Vince From dvcorbin at optonline.net Tue Apr 13 18:11:37 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: CAD software.. In-Reply-To: <16507.64238.246000.575629@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: For small to medium jobs, consider PCB123. Schematic Capture, Board Layout [NOT the greatest auto router] for 2 or 4 layer boards. Solder Mask generation. What sets them apart is they are a board fabrication house. While you are designing the board it shows the actual production costs. Just finished a small project that required 10 identical 4x4 (inch) 2 layer boards. Cost for the 10 boards = $140 [US]. Maybe not the cheapest, maybe not the best software. But definitely a simple workable single point solution. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Apr 13 18:07:22 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Flash point, laser fuser and lubrication In-Reply-To: chris "Re: Flash point, laser fuser and lubrication" (Apr 13, 14:43) References: Message-ID: <10404140007.ZM1802@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 13, 14:43, chris wrote: > >Correction. I just learned that the flash point for 3-in-1 oil is 305 > >degrees Fahrenheit. If I recall correctly, the Laserjet II's fuser is > >heated to 320 degrees F., so... still, not good. > > put a little on a non flammable surface (like concrete), just a small > amount (comparable to what you put on the fuser)... touch a match to it. > If it doesn't ignite, you should be good to go on the fuser. Matches burn > hotter than 305 degrees. (do NOT do this test on a flammable surface or > with anything like a cup or cap of oil... given enough fuel/O2 mix, the > match will ignite the oil, and not in a very nice manner) That's a very poor test, and the quantity is not what matters to the chemicals partaking (or not) in the reaction :-) The local heat capacity is. The concrete keeps the oil much cooler than is required to *sustain* burning, and the hot fuser is not comparable to a slab of cold concrete. Pour half a cup of petrol (er, gasoline) into a bucket of water, drop in a match, and watch the match go out... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 13 18:06:17 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Flash point, laser fuser and lubrication In-Reply-To: <20040413180622.GE224@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Apr 13, 4 02:06:23 pm Message-ID: > > Quothe R. D. Davis, from writings of Tue, Apr 13, 2004 at 11:48:49AM -0400: > > for the 3-in-1 (if what's in the can I used is the same as the spray; > > the spray is all I could find data for, flash point about 101 degrees > > F). > > Correction. I just learned that the flash point for 3-in-1 oil is 305 > degrees Fahrenheit. If I recall correctly, the Laserjet II's fuser is > heated to 320 degrees F., so... still, not good. Well. I sue 3-in-1 oil when soldering aluminium [1], and I've never had it catch fire. My soldering iron gets to 800 deg_F... [1] The problem with soldering aluminium is the oxide on the surface of siad metal. One trick is to put a drop of oil on the metal, then scrape away the oxidie through the oil, then immediately tin the area with a hot iron and solder. It sometimes takes a couple of tries, but once it's tinned you can clean off the oil nd solder the wire, or whatever, in place. I've used this method to make connections to aluminium plates used as eelectrodes, etc. -tony From dvcorbin at optonline.net Tue Apr 13 18:31:49 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: truckload of PDP stuff In-Reply-To: <200404132100.RAA20286@smtp.9netave.com> Message-ID: Count me in! >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Eros >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 5:00 PM >>> To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' >>> Subject: RE: truckload of PDP stuff >>> >>> I'm about 45 minutes from this location and would be >>> willing to help coordinate pickup and staging if we wanted >>> to try to do a bulk buy. >>> >>> What do you all think would be the best way to proceed? >>> >>> -- Tony >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] >>> On Behalf Of John Allain >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 3:38 PM >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>> Subject: Re: truckload of PDP stuff >>> >>> >>> Did anyone check on this and follow up (My previous post >>> >>> > I also attempted contact via e-Mail...multiple times...no >>> response. >>> >>> I must have the right touch. The prime eBay/eMail contact >>> was pretty dead in the beginning (giving Sorry's to my >>> questions) but he did give this... call "610-825-4748 to >>> make arrangements, ask for Pete" >>> >>> more info just now... >>> >>> Pete (and later Brian) told me that there are: >>> "both pdp 11/40s and 34s. We have about 5 processors and >>> other assorted parts." and then "There is also at least >>> 1 DECpack" all on pallets. >>> Other details: they are de-racked and the former spare time >>> gizmos of Pete, who found he didn't have the time to play... >>> >>> sound like a little under 1 ton. >>> >>> John A. >>> share and enjoy. mmmm 34's.... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Apr 13 14:36:53 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Removing physical blemishes from CRT? In-Reply-To: References: <20040413022825.MWAD18104.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20040413233432.ZPLA1581.tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Hi, > > I bet this TV is CTC169 or CTC177 chassis? This details is also on > > same rear sticker with model number on it. > > Close: CTC170R. WOW!! I'm surprised that TV is still working after 10 yr. This chassis is a dog, enjoy it while it is working. I work for a shop by the way and haven't seen a CTC170 based tv yet I do have schematics for it. > Sure, but this is one nice TV. It employs a picture technology they call > IDTV or "Improved Definition TV". Basically, they use an algorithm that > fills in between scan lines with the picture data above and below. There That's unusual feature haven't heard of that. > working just as good as new ever since. I figure (hope?) I'll get a > couple more years out of it before it blows. Being RCA, and knowing the RCA CRT is, they will last much longer than that like 3 or 5 years more based on your description of picture quality. For this reason, I like to own either RCA or JVC, many of them especially JVC 27" sets used RCA tubes. > This monitor was free (or actually, it was more than free...being an > e-waste recycler has its side benefits ;) so it's no loss either way. I > When my ProScan goes I'm probably going to get one of them fancy flat > panel displays and reclaim some floorspace in my bedroom. I figure the > price will have come down a bit by then as well. LCD and Plamsa are not nice. Too many minuses and primarily cost. I'd look at OLED developed that far and alteratively DLP which is very *GOOD* and is here now. Old standby CRT based projector is cheaper and bright. By the way, CRT based projector that is HDTV compatible (16:9 format) in 1080i mode shows very little lines. Actually, picture looks purer. There is 16:9 format direct view CRT sets but hellcious heavy. Cheers, Wizard From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Apr 13 18:29:52 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: CAD software.. References: Message-ID: <407C77F0.3000502@jetnet.ab.ca> David V. Corbin wrote: > For small to medium jobs, consider PCB123. Schematic Capture, Board Layout > [NOT the greatest auto router] for 2 or 4 layer boards. Solder Mask > generation. > > What sets them apart is they are a board fabrication house. While you are > designing the board it shows the actual production costs. > > Just finished a small project that required 10 identical 4x4 (inch) 2 layer > boards. Cost for the 10 boards = $140 [US]. > > Maybe not the cheapest, maybe not the best software. But definitely a simple > workable single point solution. > > . > I might consider them, but I want to be OPEN SOURCE with my design. I wonder when I'll have to stock up on the chips I need, before they go out of production? Ben. From mpokorni2000 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 13 22:36:37 2004 From: mpokorni2000 at yahoo.com (Miroslav Pokorni) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Flash point, laser fuser and lubrication Message-ID: <006701c421d1$b14ef600$cd563f04@miroslav2> The low flash point of spray is more than likely coming from vehicle used for spray. As for 3-in-1 oil, I heard there is nothing predictable in that, they just put any old thing that is at hand; stuff is intended for household use. A lubrication guy, who is also on Tecscope group, was saying that most of content of 3-in-1 is vegetable oil. Those oils oxidize easily in air, what leads to gumming up and higher temperature just speeds up the process. Regards Miroslav Pokorni From mpokorni2000 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 13 22:23:17 2004 From: mpokorni2000 at yahoo.com (Miroslav Pokorni) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Removing physical blemishes from CRT? Message-ID: <005d01c421cf$d47fd1f0$cd563f04@miroslav2> The 3M have a material for polishing glass in form similar to Scotchbrite. I do not know the exact name but I believe it is a variation on Scotchbrite. Actually, material is Scotchbrite with polishing powder imbedded. I heard of people using it to polish out scratches on eyeglasses. Regards Miroslav Pokorni From allain at panix.com Tue Apr 13 21:58:56 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: truckload of PDP stuff References: <200404132100.RAA20286@smtp.9netave.com> Message-ID: <001501c421cc$6e285b00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >What do you all think would be the best way to proceed? Bidding closes in 33 hours. One person collects reservations for certain machines, along with promises of payment in exchange for that portion of the lot. The problem is that crate&ship of a typical '11 would probably be over $100 each piece. Are people still interested? So far only the interest shown is for 2 of 5 computers. John A. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Apr 14 00:16:30 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Flash point, laser fuser and lubrication In-Reply-To: <10404132359.ZM1671@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <20040413154848.GD224@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <10404132359.ZM1671@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200404140517.BAA05714@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > If necessary, white spirit (turpentine substitute) will wash out the > residue. Sorry, I don't know what white spirit is called in the > States, it's similar to kerosene but lighter and leaves no residue. > It's most often used here for thinning oil-based paints, or cleaning > paint brushes. This is probably the substance I (brought up in the USA of USA parents) learned to call "mineral spirits". /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Apr 13 19:15:17 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Contact Ethan Dicks In-Reply-To: <407C5113.64EFD189@compsys.to> References: <407C5113.64EFD189@compsys.to> Message-ID: <20040414001517.GA6460@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Apr 13, 2004 at 04:44:03PM -0400, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > Hi Ethan, > I have tried to send you a private e-mail, but it is rejected? What address? Attachments? -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 14-Apr-2004 00:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -50.7 F (-45.9 C) Windchill -114.6 F (-81.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 18.8 kts Grid 334 Barometer 680.8 mb (10595. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Apr 14 01:59:17 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Flash point, laser fuser and lubrication In-Reply-To: der Mouse "Re: Flash point, laser fuser and lubrication" (Apr 14, 1:16) References: <20040413154848.GD224@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <10404132359.ZM1671@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200404140517.BAA05714@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <10404140759.ZM2145@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 14, 1:16, der Mouse wrote: > > Sorry, I don't know what white spirit is called in the > > States, it's similar to kerosene but lighter and leaves no residue. > > It's most often used here for thinning oil-based paints, or cleaning > > paint brushes. > > This is probably the substance I (brought up in the USA of USA parents) > learned to call "mineral spirits". That sounds imminently plausible -- thanks! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 14 02:17:19 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Removing physical blemishes from CRT? In-Reply-To: <20040413233432.ZPLA1581.tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > WOW!! I'm surprised that TV is still working after 10 yr. This > chassis is a dog, enjoy it while it is working. I work for a shop by > the way and haven't seen a CTC170 based tv yet I do have schematics > for it. It can't be that much of a dog if you've never seen one in your shop! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From menadeau at comcast.net Tue Apr 13 20:03:42 2004 From: menadeau at comcast.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: A pack of Morrows available in Toronto References: <200404131404.i3DE4I2Y029970@spies.com> Message-ID: <000201c4220f$f26f70e0$0b01a8c0@Mike> I've been contacted by someone with "5 or 6" Morrow MD-3s, a couple of MD-2s, and maybe an MD-11 (she's not sure). Most are working, and they come with lots of software. She wants some money for them, but I'm not sure how much. Drop me a note if you want me to put you in touch with her. The systems are in Toronto. --Mike From jdbryan at acm.org Tue Apr 13 09:31:54 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: HP 64000 in Kansas City Message-ID: <200404131432.i3DEVtrQ028470@mail.bcpl.net> On 12 Apr 2004 at 10:45, I wrote: > I'll scan a couple of pages from the "HP 64000 Installation and > Configuration Reference Manual" (64980-90921, June 1982) tonight that > show the differences and post a URL tomorrow. I've posted a pair of pages from the "HP 64000 System Overview" manual (64980-90912, February 1982) as a 63K PDF at: http://www.bcpl.net/~dbryan/dropbox/64000-extracts.pdf They have illustrations of the 64100A and 64110A mainframes and a short list of their physical differences. (The overview manual seemed to illustrate these better than the installation manual, once I had checked.) -- Dave From jdbryan at acm.org Tue Apr 13 11:51:02 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Making foreign DOS boot floppies (IBM). In-Reply-To: <013501c420a7$a4fd2fa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <200404131651.i3DGp3rQ006524@mail.bcpl.net> On 12 Apr 2004 at 12:03, John Allain wrote: > Step one seems to be generic: format command. > Step two is ? Step 2 is "install a DOS boot sector at cylinder 0, head 0, sector 1 of the floppy." This is normally done automatically by the "format" command, but the format command for a given OS will install a boot sector for that OS, e.g., if you're running NT, the NT format command will install an NT boot sector, i.e., one that tries to load NTLDR. > Is there a way I can patch or debug the floppy after generic > format to make it look bootable? Copy the boot sector (512 bytes) from a known bootable DOS diskette to a file on your hard drive. Then, to make a new diskette DOS-bootable, copy the boot sector file to logical sector 0 of the floppy as "step 2" of your process. You didn't mention what your "higher-version OS" is, but if you're running one of the Win9x-series, or WinNT up through version 4.0, you can run a small "debug" script to copy the boot sector. This one will copy from the floppy to the file "c:\bootsect.dos": L 100 0 0 1 N C:\BOOTSECT.DOS R BX 0 R CX 200 W Q ...and this one will copy it back to a floppy: N C:\BOOTSECT.DOS L W 100 0 0 1 Q (This will work under NT 4.0 as well if you're logged in as "Administrator". I don't believe that it will work under Win2K/XP, as direct floppy writes from "debug" seem to have been disallowed even under the Administrator account, although I haven't investigated thoroughly.) -- Dave From keith at saracom.com Tue Apr 13 12:34:43 2004 From: keith at saracom.com (keith@saracom.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Installing SRM version 3.12 on HP9000/300 machine Message-ID: <20040413103443.24335.h006.c000.wm@mail.saracom.com.criticalpath.net> Quick question, Can one install the SRM OS on a 300 series workstation? I think I have a Model 360 (it has a 68030 processor, 68882 co-processor, scsi, lan etc). Anyway, I have a 9144 tape drive and when I try to boot the SRM tape, it lists it as booting and then blanks the screen and resets. When I use a hard drive with Basic 5.13, it boots fine. Am I doing something wrong or does SRM only work with the HP9826 and similar? Thanks Max From sieler at allegro.com Tue Apr 13 18:30:22 2004 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Z80 disassembler for Linux In-Reply-To: References: <200404072358.QAA27278@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <407C159E.15472.A5B926D1@localhost> Tom writes: > COMMENTS!? I'd like to see a disassembler comment code! Humans > even are areally bad at this... Ok...you ask, you receive...from a PA-RISC disassembler: offset instruct instruction disassembled comments ------ -------- ------------------------ -------- ... 460c: 48212691 LDW -3256(0,r1),r1 ; [W r1-3256] 4610: 483f0078 LDW 60(0,r1),r31 ; [W [W r1-3256]+60] ... 61a0: 0a7f0414 SUB r31,r19,r20 ; ([W sp-80]) - ([W sp-64]) ... 643c: e7e02938 BLE 1180(4,r31) ; P_2c49c 6440: 081f0242 COPY r31,rp ; $00006444 ; r26 = $00045c20 --> $00000000 ; r25 = $0003c72c --> $48454c50 ("HELP") The first comment is fairly obvious, the second is a bit more sophisticated. The comment "[W xxx]" means "32-bit word loaded from memory at address xxx". Thus, we see that the instruction at offset 4610 is a load via a pointer. The comment on 61a0 is useful in many cases. The last section (starting at offset 643c) shows a procedure call to an as-yet-unnamed procedure (temporarily called P_2c49c), passing two parameters (code to load the parameters not shown above). The first parameter (in r26) is the constant 0, loaded from memory (which is unusual), the second parameter (in r25) is the integer constant corresponding to the ASCII characters "HELP" (big-endian machine, BTW). Stan -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From phirkel at sympatico.ca Tue Apr 13 19:12:28 2004 From: phirkel at sympatico.ca (Philippe Vachon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Monitor on SGI Indy Message-ID: <407C81EC.8070605@sympatico.ca> Hi there. I got a few SGI Indys recently, and I would like to get them to work. I do not have a Sync on Green monitor, however, I have read that the Indy outputs a composite signal, not unlike Sun hardware. I have a Sun 13w3 adaptor (which I know does not work in pristine state with the SGI machine), and I would like to use it to connect my Samsung SyncMaster 750s to my Indy. *http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Sun+13W3+SGI+Indy&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=3C9C795E.60FCC62%40freenet.de&rnum=6 <--* I found this reference to the pinout of Sun and SGI equipment...but I can't make heads or tails of what I would to to the adaptor to make it work with my monitor. Thanks, Phil. From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Apr 14 07:37:20 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: truckload of PDP stuff In-Reply-To: <011001c4218e$c834e980$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040414073314.06366e18@mail.ubanproductions.com> I am interested in an 11/40, and possibly more, depending on what there is, the condition, and completeness. As they have been de- racked, I can only wonder what state they are in. An 11/34 would survive this pretty well, but an 11/40 in a BA11-F may not. Also, have they been stored properly, or left to the elements? --tom At 03:37 PM 4/13/2004 -0400, you wrote: > >>> Did anyone check on this and follow up (My previous post > > > I also attempted contact via e-Mail...multiple times...no response. > >I must have the right touch. The prime eBay/eMail contact was >pretty dead in the beginning (giving Sorry's to my questions) but >he did give this... call "610-825-4748 to make arrangements, ask >for Pete" > >more info just now... > >Pete (and later Brian) told me that there are: >"both pdp 11/40s and 34s. We have about 5 processors > and other assorted parts." and then "There is also at least > 1 DECpack" all on pallets. >Other details: they are de-racked and the former spare time >gizmos of Pete, who found he didn't have the time to play... > >sound like a little under 1 ton. > >John A. >share and enjoy. mmmm 34's.... From charlesmorris at direcway.com Wed Apr 14 08:09:01 2004 From: charlesmorris at direcway.com (charlesmorris@direcway.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: PC boards and software Message-ID: >If you can settle for 4 x 6 inches (roughly), you can get everything >needed for $125. That seems not too bad to me, for software I actually like >to use, as opposed to "can get by with". Actually 160x100mm (Eurocard size) which is 6.4 x 4 inches... never seems to be quite big enough! I bought the nonprofit version for $125 or so which has that limit. >Agreed, the $1200 (that I paid) for the unlimited version is a ton of money >for software. (Maybe you are the target audience for PCB123 :-).) $1200? I thought the top of the line was $495 (which IMHO is still a ton of money). Meanwhile, for PCB shops I have been very happy with Olimex (www.olimex.com) in Bulgaria. If you're not in a flaming hurry (airmail takes about 10-12 days but is only $8) they will make a Eurocard-sized two layer, silkscreen, solder masked board for $26, directly from your emailed Eagle .SCH and .BRD files. Turnaround time is 3-5 days not counting the airmail. -Charles From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Wed Apr 14 08:13:20 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Monitor on SGI Indy In-Reply-To: <407C81EC.8070605@sympatico.ca> References: <407C81EC.8070605@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <407D38F0.50306@ntlworld.com> Philippe Vachon wrote: > Hi there. > I got a few SGI Indys recently, and I would like to get them to work. > I do not have a Sync on Green monitor, however, I have read that the > Indy outputs a composite signal, not unlike Sun hardware. I have a Sun > 13w3 adaptor (which I know does not work in pristine state with the > SGI machine), and I would like to use it to connect my Samsung > SyncMaster 750s to my Indy. > > *http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Sun+13W3+SGI+Indy&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=3C9C795E.60FCC62%40freenet.de&rnum=6 > <--* I found this reference to the pinout of Sun and SGI > equipment...but I can't make heads or tails of what I would to to the > adaptor to make it work with my monitor. > > Thanks, > Phil. > I found that using a 13w3-->vga and a vga cable then another 13w3--->vga works on both an indy and an indigo2. Dan From wacarder at usit.net Wed Apr 14 08:25:43 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (wacarder@usit.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: Truckload of PDP stuff Message-ID: <1896738.1081949143808.JavaMail.root@fozzie.psp.pas.earthlink.net> I'm new to this mailing list, but have been following it for a month or more. I'm interested in the 11/40 from the truckload of stuff. I have been wanting to reconstruct a replica of my college computer from the late 1970s. I have recreated it in Bob Supnik's simulator, but would like to be able to get my hands on the real stuff! Has anyone actually seen the stuff in that "truckload"? Ashley Carder From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Apr 14 08:34:00 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: CAD software.. References: <407C77F0.3000502@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <16509.15816.860000.872824@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "ben" == ben franchuk writes: ben> David V. Corbin wrote: >> For small to medium jobs, consider PCB123.... ben> I might consider them, but I want to be OPEN SOURCE with my ben> design. You mean you want the tools used to be open source? If you find any, please let us all know -- I have looked and found nothing. If you mean that you want the tool to produce output files that are useable anywhere, then yes, PCB123 would not be the answer. Eagle CAD would serve, that produces Gerber files (or PostScript files -- handy if you have not-too-demanding boards, you can then print the layouts directly onto transparency material). paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Apr 14 08:44:16 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:49 2005 Subject: PC boards and software References: Message-ID: <16509.16432.367000.220814@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "charlesmorris" == charlesmorris writes: >> Agreed, the $1200 (that I paid) for the unlimited version is a ton >> of money for software. (Maybe you are the target audience for >> PCB123 :-).) charlesmorris> $1200? I thought the top of the line was $495 (which charlesmorris> IMHO is still a ton of money). That was back with V2.6, the DOS version with a dongle. The current version is Windows or Linux, and comes in three flavors. They all have three parts: schematic, PCB layout, autorouter; you can get one or two or all three pieces. The unlimited one is $400 per piece. Having seen autorouting, I wonder if it wouldn't make sense to get the version without it. Autorouting saves a bit of time some of the time, but only that. And it's only useful for noncritical signals. (That's true even for the most expensive industrial grade PCB tools, as I've found out talking to the hardware designers here.) paul From cb at mythtech.net Wed Apr 14 08:53:43 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: Flash point, laser fuser and lubrication Message-ID: >That's a very poor test, Its not the most ideal, but I wanted to recommend something he could try easily to give him a quick and dirty answer. >and the quantity is not what matters to the >chemicals partaking (or not) in the reaction :-) The local heat >capacity is. Wrong. You need sufficient fuel to oxygen mix. Too little fuel or too little o2, and it won't burn. My guess (and it was a guess, based on what I know about fires), is the 3 in 1 oil that was on the fuser was too low of a quantity to burn freely. That does NOT mean it won't smolder, it just means you won't get a flame. I'd expect that there was a negligible amount of oil actually on the fuser. The heat capacity is but one factor in starting and sustaining a fire. There are 4 parts needed for a fire: fuel, oxygen, heat, chemical reaction. Remove any one, the fire goes out. All 4 have to be in the correct "zone" for a fire to happen (what that zone is differs based on fuel) >The concrete keeps the oil much cooler than is required >to *sustain* burning, That's actually the point of using it. It won't sustain burning. When the heat source is removed, the fire will go out on its own. However, a match (which burns upward of 1000 degrees) will be sufficient to test the 320 degree limit of the oil to see if there is enough fuel to start a fire. >Pour half a cup of petrol (er, gasoline) into a bucket >of water, drop in a match, and watch the match go out... You do that... I'll video tape. Gasoline floats on water, unless you chase that cup of gas with the match, the gas will rapidly move to the surface and start vaporizing. Your match will probably ignite the fumes half way into the bucket, resulting in a nice POP as the remaining gas bursts into flame... right on the surface of the water. Should be for a fun video to watch. (we carry foam on our fire trucks specifically to combat situations like gasoline fires... if you have a gasoline fire, DO NOT add water... you just end up with a bigger gasoline fire.) -chris From vrs at msn.com Wed Apr 14 09:16:37 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: PC boards and software References: <16509.16432.367000.220814@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: > That was back with V2.6, the DOS version with a dongle. The current > version is Windows or Linux, and comes in three flavors. They all > have three parts: schematic, PCB layout, autorouter; you can get one > or two or all three pieces. The unlimited one is $400 per piece. > > Having seen autorouting, I wonder if it wouldn't make sense to get the > version without it. Autorouting saves a bit of time some of the time, > but only that. And it's only useful for noncritical signals. (That's > true even for the most expensive industrial grade PCB tools, as I've > found out talking to the hardware designers here.) I use and like the autorouter. Perhaps none of my designs have very many signals that would be considered critical by today's standards :-). I have use the "signal class" feature to expand power traces, change spacing, etc. I have also done things like route power signals in a separate pass, etc. You can always hand-draw the critical stuff before turning the autorouter loose on the rest. In addition to the "more open" nature vs pcb123, I wanted to mention that the Freeware Eagle version will print schematics and layout, and even generate Gerber files for big boards. You just can't edit them. (It works a little like the "viewers" for various expensive Office products :-).) That means that while it cost me $1200 to do the TC08 backplane, I could share it with any of you, and you could get a board made, without shelling out for a license. Vince From wacarder at usit.net Wed Apr 14 09:31:03 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (wacarder@usit.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: Truckload of PDP stuff Message-ID: <12636617.1081953067021.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Also.... I am in South Carolina, so I will not be able to help retrieve/load/etc, but I am interested in coordinating with others in purchasing some of the PDP-11 items if we can work it out. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: wacarder@usit.net Sent: Apr 14, 2004 9:25 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Truckload of PDP stuff I'm new to this mailing list, but have been following it for a month or more. I'm interested in the 11/40 from the truckload of stuff. I have been wanting to reconstruct a replica of my college computer from the late 1970s. I have recreated it in Bob Supnik's simulator, but would like to be able to get my hands on the real stuff! Has anyone actually seen the stuff in that "truckload"? Ashley Carder From wacarder at usit.net Wed Apr 14 10:19:54 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: PDP 11/40, VT50 or VT52, LA36 Message-ID: <21904214.1081955994619.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Does anyone on this list have any of the following items that they would be interested in getting rid of: PDP 11/40 with rack and RK05 drive(s) VT50 or VT52 DecScope LA36 Decwriter RK05 pack with RSTS/E I would like to attempt to reconstruct the computer that my friends and I used in college from 1975-80. Our former professor who was also director of the computer center and is now retired has indicated that he might offer some assistance in reconstructing the environment if we can find a PDP 11/40. Our college junked their 11/40 in 1989 or shortly thereafter. The new generation of computer people there "cleaned up" old junk and threw away anything that was left from the 11/40 that we knew and loved. We have created a pretty faithful replica using Bob Supnik's emulator and have it available via TELNET on the internet. Several of us had complete prints from the late 70s of all the source programs on the system. It was running RSTS/E with Basic Plus. It took a while to find someone with a soft copy of the Basic Plus version of ADVENTure, but I was able to get a copy from someone who was in Project Delta and have loaded that to our RK05 disk image for our simulated 11/40. We would like to get our hands on the real hardware so we can feel the heat and hear the fans whirring once again! Thanks for any and all help that anyone can provide! Ashley From allain at panix.com Wed Apr 14 10:25:46 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: truckload of PDP stuff References: <200404132100.RAA20286@smtp.9netave.com> <001501c421cc$6e285b00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <062201c42234$c27e08e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I'm more of a Qbus guy, and this looks to be all Unibus. (Though I do have 2 Unibussers) Someone on the list has contacted me stating his intent to be the winning bidder. Perhaps he (BCC'ed herein) should make his name public so people can sub-bid to him for individual machines in the lot. John A. From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Apr 14 10:29:11 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: PDP 11/40, VT50 or VT52, LA36 References: <21904214.1081955994619.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <015201c42235$3c624220$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I have a spare LA36 (maybe an LA120, but I think it's an LA36) located in St. Louis I'd trade off. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Carder" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 10:19 AM Subject: PDP 11/40, VT50 or VT52, LA36 > Does anyone on this list have any of the following > items that they would be interested in getting rid of: > > PDP 11/40 with rack and RK05 drive(s) > VT50 or VT52 DecScope > LA36 Decwriter > RK05 pack with RSTS/E > > I would like to attempt to reconstruct the computer > that my friends and I used in college from 1975-80. > Our former professor who was also director of the > computer center and is now retired has indicated that > he might offer some assistance in reconstructing the > environment if we can find a PDP 11/40. Our college > junked their 11/40 in 1989 or shortly thereafter. The > new generation of computer people there "cleaned up" > old junk and threw away anything that was left from > the 11/40 that we knew and loved. > > We have created a pretty faithful replica using Bob > Supnik's emulator and have it available via TELNET > on the internet. Several of us had complete prints > from the late 70s of all the source programs on the > system. It was running RSTS/E with Basic Plus. It took > a while to find someone with a soft copy of the > Basic Plus version of ADVENTure, but I was able to get > a copy from someone who was in Project Delta and > have loaded that to our RK05 disk image for our > simulated 11/40. > > We would like to get our hands on the real hardware > so we can feel the heat and hear the fans whirring > once again! > > Thanks for any and all help that anyone can provide! > > Ashley > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From wacarder at usit.net Wed Apr 14 10:42:11 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: PDP 11/40, VT50 or VT52, LA36 Message-ID: <17573044.1081957335021.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> My problem is that I don't have a lot to trade. I do have an old Western Union Baudot (I think 5 bit) teletype machine that I think I'm going to get rid of, but it was mostly for use by deaf people who used it to communicate over the telephone and doesn't interface (as far as I know) to a computer. I have only recently been seriously considering locating an 11/40 and associated peripherals, now that I have a place where I could set it up and work on it. I recently moved from the city back to the country and I built a 30' by 60' building / shop behind my house. Inside I closed off a portion that is climate controlled, which is a good place to house an 11/40. What kind of condition is your spare LA36 in? I suppose I could start my collection with an LA36 and continue searching for an 11/40 to go with it! :-) Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Jay West Sent: Apr 14, 2004 11:29 AM To: Ashley Carder , "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Subject: Re: PDP 11/40, VT50 or VT52, LA36 I have a spare LA36 (maybe an LA120, but I think it's an LA36) located in St. Louis I'd trade off. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Carder" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 10:19 AM Subject: PDP 11/40, VT50 or VT52, LA36 > Does anyone on this list have any of the following > items that they would be interested in getting rid of: > > PDP 11/40 with rack and RK05 drive(s) > VT50 or VT52 DecScope > LA36 Decwriter > RK05 pack with RSTS/E > > I would like to attempt to reconstruct the computer > that my friends and I used in college from 1975-80. > Our former professor who was also director of the > computer center and is now retired has indicated that > he might offer some assistance in reconstructing the > environment if we can find a PDP 11/40. Our college > junked their 11/40 in 1989 or shortly thereafter. The > new generation of computer people there "cleaned up" > old junk and threw away anything that was left from > the 11/40 that we knew and loved. > > We have created a pretty faithful replica using Bob > Supnik's emulator and have it available via TELNET > on the internet. Several of us had complete prints > from the late 70s of all the source programs on the > system. It was running RSTS/E with Basic Plus. It took > a while to find someone with a soft copy of the > Basic Plus version of ADVENTure, but I was able to get > a copy from someone who was in Project Delta and > have loaded that to our RK05 disk image for our > simulated 11/40. > > We would like to get our hands on the real hardware > so we can feel the heat and hear the fans whirring > once again! > > Thanks for any and all help that anyone can provide! > > Ashley > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From wacarder at usit.net Wed Apr 14 10:44:09 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: truckload of PDP stuff Message-ID: <28666132.1081957453301.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> I'm interested in the 11/40 Unibus stuff. I just joined the list and I started another thread with this same title. Do you know if anyone's actually seen the stuff in this lot? I'm wondering what kind of condition it's in. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: John Allain Sent: Apr 14, 2004 11:25 AM To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Subject: Re: truckload of PDP stuff I'm more of a Qbus guy, and this looks to be all Unibus. (Though I do have 2 Unibussers) Someone on the list has contacted me stating his intent to be the winning bidder. Perhaps he (BCC'ed herein) should make his name public so people can sub-bid to him for individual machines in the lot. John A. From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Apr 14 10:53:07 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: PDP 11/40, VT50 or VT52, LA36 References: <17573044.1081957335021.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <16509.24163.163000.522750@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ashley" == Ashley Carder writes: Ashley> My problem is that I don't have a lot to trade. I do have an Ashley> old Western Union Baudot (I think 5 bit) teletype machine Ashley> that I think I'm going to get rid of, but it was mostly for Ashley> use by deaf people who used it to communicate over the Ashley> telephone and doesn't interface (as far as I know) to a Ashley> computer. Hardwarily it probably would -- most older async interfaces can handle the timing specs of the 5-level machines. If they can be happy on a 20 mA loop, a KL11 or DL11 with current loop interface would serve. (If it's a 60 mA loop, you'd be on your own -- unless you go via a modem.) The bigger problem is that your typical OS doesn't handle ASCII to Baudot (Murray) code translation... Not that it would be hard to add, and if you really wanted to do that, RSTS would be a good place because the standard OS kit includes the terminal driver source. paul From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Apr 14 11:09:26 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: CAD software.. References: <407C77F0.3000502@jetnet.ab.ca> <16509.15816.860000.872824@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <407D6236.30203@jetnet.ab.ca> Paul Koning wrote: > You mean you want the tools used to be open source? If you find any, > please let us all know -- I have looked and found nothing. The tools would be nice open source. No I want my data open source as much as possible. Ben. From brad at heeltoe.com Wed Apr 14 12:22:30 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: truckload of PDP stuff In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:25:46 EDT." <062201c42234$c27e08e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <200404141722.i3EHMUN29143@mwave.heeltoe.com> "John Allain" wrote: > >Someone on the list has contacted me stating his >intent to be the winning bidder. Perhaps he (BCC'ed herein) >should make his name public so people can sub-bid to him >for individual machines in the lot. Well, I'd certainly kick in some money for anything unibus (I have a thing about hex cards :-) I could use a 256k memory card for an 11/34a. And a FP card (or set of cpu spares). I could pretty much anything to do with an 11/44 - memory, box, etc... more RL02 carts are always handy. And who could'nt use an rk05? :-) -brad From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Apr 14 12:30:53 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: Flash point, laser fuser and lubrication In-Reply-To: chris "Re: Flash point, laser fuser and lubrication" (Apr 14, 9:53) References: Message-ID: <10404141830.ZM2617@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 14, 9:53, chris wrote: > >That's a very poor test, > > Its not the most ideal, but I wanted to recommend something he could try > easily to give him a quick and dirty answer. > > >and the quantity is not what matters to the > >chemicals partaking (or not) in the reaction :-) The local heat > >capacity is. > > Wrong. You need sufficient fuel to oxygen mix. Too little fuel or too > little o2, and it won't burn. My guess (and it was a guess, based on what > I know about fires), is the 3 in 1 oil that was on the fuser was too low > of a quantity to burn freely. No, if there were too little (but there was enough oxygen and heat) it would flash off. Too little fuel is never a reason for something not to ignite, though it may prevent sustained burning. > The heat capacity is but one factor in starting and sustaining a fire. > There are 4 parts needed for a fire: fuel, oxygen, heat, chemical > reaction. Remove any one, the fire goes out. Three things: chemical reaction is implicit in fuel+oxygen (and activation energy). Unless you get into esoteric things like substances that interfere with the reaction (like some CFCs can), because they change the activation energy. > >Pour half a cup of petrol (er, gasoline) into a bucket > >of water, drop in a match, and watch the match go out... > > You do that... I'll video tape. I know quite a bit about this actually, because my dad owned a fire extinguisher company. The reason you use foam to combat a liquid fire is to smother it, because with an established fire, it's unlikely you can get enough water to cool it fast enough, without spreading the burning liquid around. The petrol in bucket of water trick works because the petrol layer is very thin and the water prevents it getting hot enough before the match goes out. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed Apr 14 13:09:20 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (classiccmp@vintage-computer.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000TX available for the cost of shipping Message-ID: <1645.206.184.248.70.1081966160.squirrel@login.pegasus.lunarpages.com> Rosann (rosann1224@rcn.com) is looking to donate her Tandy 1000TX system to a collector for the cost of postage. Please contact her directly if you are interested in the system. More details can be found at http://vintage-computer.com/vcforum/viewtopic.php?t=911 I have nothing to do with this item or the seller. I am just passing this on for the benefit of the list. Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed Apr 14 13:11:11 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (classiccmp@vintage-computer.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: S-100 System For Sale (CT - USA) Message-ID: <1652.206.184.248.70.1081966271.squirrel@login.pegasus.lunarpages.com> Another one: Brian Toubman is selling a very nice, complete S-100 system. The system is located in Connecticut. Please contact him directly if you are interested in the system. More details can be found at http://vintage-computer.com/vcforum/viewtopic.php?t=915 I have nothing to do with this item or the seller. I am just passing this on for the benefit of the list (and, obviously, the seller.) Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Apr 14 13:11:08 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: PC boards and software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200404141814.OAA08593@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Meanwhile, for PCB shops I have been very happy with Olimex > (www.olimex.com) in Bulgaria. If you're not in a flaming hurry > (airmail takes about 10-12 days but is only $8) they will make a > Eurocard-sized two layer, silkscreen, solder masked board for $26, > directly from your emailed Eagle .SCH and .BRD files. Turnaround > time is 3-5 days not counting the airmail. That sounds attractive - but what are these .SCH and .BRD files? Is there any documentation on the format? I don't mind doing board layout and such myself, but I have to know what I need to generate. (No, running the software in question is not an option, if for no other reason than its being, I gather, closed-source.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Apr 14 13:33:10 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: Flash point, laser fuser and lubrication In-Reply-To: <10404141830.ZM2617@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10404141830.ZM2617@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200404141841.OAA08780@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> Wrong. You need sufficient fuel to oxygen mix. Too little fuel or >> too little o2, and it won't burn. > No, if there were too little (but there was enough oxygen and heat) > it would flash off. Too little fuel is never a reason for something > not to ignite, though it may prevent sustained burning. Depends on what you mean by "ignite". It usually refers to a self-sustaining reaction, even if sustained for only some small fraction of a second. Try, for example, putting a half-dozen drops of petrol out to evaporate in a garage. Let it completely evaporate and diffuse throughout the garage. (Make sure there is nothing flammable in the air already.) Then light a match. It's certainly there in the air; you can smell it. Individual molecules that wander into the flame will oxidize. But there isn't enough fuel around to do anything like "ignite". (Be careful not to use too much fuel in that experiment. A few drops in a large jug is enough to form an explosive fuel/air mixture, wherein there _is_ enough fuel for the reaction to be self-sustaining, briefly; I don't know how much it would take to form an explosive mixture in a garage, but I'd just as soon not find out. This is why I said to make sure there isn't flammable vapor in the air already.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Apr 14 13:55:38 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: Flash point, laser fuser and lubrication In-Reply-To: <10404141830.ZM2617@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <003001c42252$13db2c50$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I know quite a bit about this actually, because my dad owned > a fire extinguisher company. The reason you use foam to > combat a liquid fire is to smother it, I've been on the "Fire Warden" course at a local station precisely once, so I'm afraid that I have to disagree with you slightly. The contents of the extiguisher are entirely immaterial. The extinguisher is just there to act as a propellant so that you can amuse yourself pushing burning cardboard boxes and/or burning wastebins around while awaiting the professionals. They bring huge hoses so they can make the burning stuff really fly :-) And the powder ones are allegedly good for annoying the neighbours and rendering anything in the room utterly useless in the future. I say "allegedly" as the instructor would not set it off in the courtyard outside as it would annoy the locals (about 50m away) who had their washing out. It's a pity that page about lighting a barbie with LOX has been taken down ... Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Apr 14 14:21:28 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: CAD software.. In-Reply-To: ben franchuk "Re: CAD software.." (Apr 14, 10:09) References: <407C77F0.3000502@jetnet.ab.ca> <16509.15816.860000.872824@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <407D6236.30203@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <10404142021.ZM2705@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 14, 10:09, ben franchuk wrote: > Paul Koning wrote: > > > You mean you want the tools used to be open source? If you find any, > > please let us all know -- I have looked and found nothing. > > The tools would be nice open source. No I want my data open source > as much as possible. > Ben. http://bach.ece.jhu.edu/~haceaton/pcb/ It's been around for years. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From cb at mythtech.net Wed Apr 14 14:34:30 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: Flash point, laser fuser and lubrication Message-ID: >No, if there were too little (but there was enough oxygen and heat) it >would flash off. Too little fuel is never a reason for something not >to ignite, though it may prevent sustained burning. Um, yeah, I believe that is what I said on the very first reply of mine. It wouldn't catch fire, or not for more than a fraction of a second. The concern on the original poster was clearly, would the oil catch fire and cause a problem. My response was, no, chances are there is too little fuel to create a sustained chemical reaction (ie: start a fire). Flashing off, won't cause a fire. Chances are, you won't even notice it did it (other than possibly smell the by products). And depending on the amount of oil, and what exactly the oil is made of, it may never get the chance to even flash off... it may "smoke off" instead. As the heat of the fuser raises to the flash point, the oil becomes unstable and starts to break down and oxidize. You wind up with smoke (incomplete combustion), and all potential fuel may in fact oxidize before flashing, leaving nothing to ultimately flash. (hence the idea, too little fuel, no fire). >Three things: chemical reaction is implicit in fuel+oxygen (and >activation energy). Unless you get into esoteric things like >substances that interfere with the reaction (like some CFCs can), >because they change the activation energy. No, it is four things. It USED to be considered three things... then fire science got smarter, and realized that chemical reactions, although implied in the oxidation process, are a VERY important process of the fire. And attacking it is more common then people thought. In fact, most normal people that fight a fire are probably in fact attacking the chemical reaction. Dry Chemical extinguishers don't actually smother a fire like many people assume, they inhibit oxidation... ie: they break the chemical reaction. At least here in the USA, Dry Chemical extinguishers are the most popular form of fire extinguisher found in homes and offices (standard ABC are Dry Chem in the USA). Normal "civilian" ways of combating a kitchen fire: Spray it with water: removes heat Dry Chemical "ABC" extinguisher: stops chemical reaction Towel over the fire: removes oxygen Turn off the gas on the stove: removes fuel >I know quite a bit about this actually, because my dad owned a fire >extinguisher company. Ahh... ok, had I known that, I might have been more specific in my use of terms and explanations. I figured I was trying to make this a little more "layman's". I myself have been a fire fighter for 13 years... so I hope I know something about the nature of fire (if not, I've wasted an awful lot of time in classes, and been darn lucky with all the fires I've gone up against). >The reason you use foam to combat a liquid fire >is to smother it, because with an established fire, it's unlikely you >can get enough water to cool it fast enough, without spreading the >burning liquid around. Exactly. (Sorry, I didn't explain the reason behind it, because I didn't realize I was talking to someone that cared). >The petrol in bucket of water trick works >because the petrol layer is very thin and the water prevents it getting >hot enough before the match goes out. Except you forget about vaporization. Gasoline (petrol) vaporizes readily at standard atmospheric pressure. If you wait for too long before tossing that match into the bucket, you won't be igniting the fuel on the water, you will be igniting the fuel vapors hovering over the water. The water won't stop the heat of the match if the match is still 4 inches above the surface. The vapors ignite... and you get a nice POP and flash as they expand out of the top of the bucket. I wouldn't want to be standing over it when that happens. Depending on how much petrol you use, this could be fun to do... like I said... you do it, I'll video tape. :-) -chris From cb at mythtech.net Wed Apr 14 15:12:39 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: Flash point, laser fuser and lubrication Message-ID: >The contents of the extiguisher are entirely immaterial. >The extinguisher is just there to act as a propellant so >that you can amuse yourself pushing burning cardboard >boxes and/or burning wastebins around while awaiting the >professionals. They bring huge hoses so they can make >the burning stuff really fly :-) And Water Can extinguishers are for chasing people around and soaking them on hot days (or in the dead of winter). And CO2 is used to chill beers, and spray at probies to watch them scream like little girls. (or at the probies girlfriends to give them hard nipples, insuring that they will never return, and we will all later bitch, while drinking our chilled beers, that we can never get women to hang out at the station). -chris From vrs at msn.com Wed Apr 14 15:16:03 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: PC boards and software References: <200404141814.OAA08593@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: > That sounds attractive - but what are these .SCH and .BRD files? Is > there any documentation on the format? I don't mind doing board layout > and such myself, but I have to know what I need to generate. (No, > running the software in question is not an option, if for no other > reason than its being, I gather, closed-source.) Schematics and boards, respectively. Yes, they seem to be Eagle proprietary formats, and I have never tried to look inside them. (I just export Gerber files, netlists, and whatnot, and look at those :-).) The scripting language that comes with Eagle also largely removes the need to look at the low level file details. Vince From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Apr 14 15:31:09 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: PC boards and software References: <200404141814.OAA08593@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <16509.40845.519999.95382@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "der" == der Mouse writes: >> Meanwhile, for PCB shops I have been very happy with Olimex >> (www.olimex.com) in Bulgaria. If you're not in a flaming hurry >> (airmail takes about 10-12 days but is only $8) they will make a >> Eurocard-sized two layer, silkscreen, solder masked board for $26, >> directly from your emailed Eagle .SCH and .BRD files. Turnaround >> time is 3-5 days not counting the airmail. der> That sounds attractive - but what are these .SCH and .BRD files? der> Is there any documentation on the format? I don't mind doing der> board layout and such myself, but I have to know what I need to der> generate. (No, running the software in question is not an der> option, if for no other reason than its being, I gather, der> closed-source.) I doubt the Eagle file formats are documented. But I assume Gerber files are, and those are the industry-standard format for board designs. The nice thing about BRD files from Eagle is that a lot of details you have to do explicitly in Gerber files, like gaps between power/ground planes and non-power/ground vias, or spacing for soldermask and the like, are handled automatically in BRD file format when you use Eagle. So if you have that program, a BRD file is a simpler way to feed the design to a PCB shop. But a Gerber file should always work. Are you thinking about creating an open source PCB CAD tool? paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Apr 14 16:13:43 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: CAD software.. References: <407C77F0.3000502@jetnet.ab.ca> <16509.15816.860000.872824@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <407D6236.30203@jetnet.ab.ca> <10404142021.ZM2705@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <16509.43399.383552.619432@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Pete" == Pete Turnbull writes: Pete> http://bach.ece.jhu.edu/~haceaton/pcb/ Pete> It's been around for years. Cool, thanks! Poking a bit further I also found: http://xcircuit.ece.jhu.edu/ (schematic capture) http://www.geda.seul.org/ (EDA suite, including schematic capture, Gerber viewer, circuit sim, etc.) paul From brad at heeltoe.com Wed Apr 14 17:10:59 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: CAD software.. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:13:43 EDT." <16509.43399.383552.619432@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200404142210.i3EMAxf31646@mwave.heeltoe.com> Paul Koning wrote: > >http://www.geda.seul.org/ (EDA suite, including schematic capture, > Gerber viewer, circuit sim, etc.) Be careful with the 'free' gerber viewers... I've been burned by them. (I ended up with a solid power and ground plane due to a stray polygon and it didn't show in the 'free' viewer) I always double check with a commercial one now... (I still use the free ones, but I always double check) -brad From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed Apr 14 18:12:27 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: PC boards and software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Re: PCB-123...You are pretty well tied to their fab, but not exclusively. 4x4 boards = $12 and change per (quantity 10). Not so expensive. Again I state I do NOT think they are the *best*, but it is a 1 point source for everything from schematic entry to board production. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 14 19:01:54 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: Proxim RangeLAN2/ISA card? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040414200154.00890250@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found one of these today. Is anyone familar with them? This one is a 16 bit ISA card and I can't find anything about this model on the net. Does anyone know if it's compatible with the current wireless LAN cards? Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 14 19:04:41 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: Apple DiskTwin card? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040414200441.0085db50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I gound one of a Disktwin card made for the Apple computer today. It was made by Golden Triangle Computers. From what I can find on the net it was used to write to TWO hard drives simultanously. Is anyone familar with it? I'd like to know more about it. Joe From melamy at earthlink.net Wed Apr 14 19:33:09 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (melamy@earthlink.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: Proxim RangeLAN2/ISA card? Message-ID: <140404105.63163@webbox.com> absolutely proprietary. Proxim created what was called the Open Air standard and it predates 802.11b. It will only talk to another Proxim PC Card, ISA bus card, or PCI bus card that is made by Proxim. best regards, Steve Thatcher >--- Original Message --- >From: "Joe R." >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Date: 4/14/04 7:01:54 PM > I found one of these today. Is anyone familar with them? This one is a 16 >bit ISA card and I can't find anything about this model on the net. Does >anyone know if it's compatible with the current wireless LAN cards? > > Jo From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Wed Apr 14 20:29:49 2004 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: PowerBook 170 question Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040414212718.01f29aa0@popmail.voicenet.com> I just acquired a Power Book 170. Hopefully it is old enough to be on topic here. It looks to be in great physical shape but I have a few questions. When I plug it in there is a mouse pointer and a small blinking diskette. 1. What do I do next? What disk is it looking for? 2. Should there be a hard drive in this computer? 3. If there is a hard drive why should it be looking for a diskette? 4. Battery does hold a charge ================================= Gene Ehrich gehrich@tampabay.rr.com From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Apr 14 20:38:40 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: PC boards and software In-Reply-To: <16509.40845.519999.95382@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <200404141814.OAA08593@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <16509.40845.519999.95382@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200404150149.VAA11884@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >>> directly from your emailed Eagle .SCH and .BRD files. >> [W]hat are these .SCH and .BRD files? Is there any documentation on >> the format? I don't mind doing board layout and such myself, but I >> have to know what I need to generate. > I doubt the Eagle file formats are documented. But I assume Gerber > files are, and those are the industry-standard format for board > designs. Everything I've found seems to point me to Gerber, yes. But I've yet to find Gerber documentation anywhere (at least anything detailed enough to be able to write code to). Surely such a thing must exist somewhere, but I've had no luck finding it. > Are you thinking about creating an open source PCB CAD tool? It's one of the options. I'm interested in this because there's a circuit I'd like to transfer from the wishboard it's on now to a real pcb, but that means I need the pcb. I suspect that there are a lot of things I don't know because I've never done anything of the sort before that everyone in the industry takes for granted because it's always been done that way. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Apr 14 21:00:23 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer shown on Green Acres? Message-ID: <20040415020023.GK224@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Tonight, on Green Acres (on the TV Land channel), they're showing a 1950/1960s minicomputer or mainframe with several tape drives, etc. Does anyone know what type of computer it is? The show will probably be repeated sometime tomorrow (probably sometime between 4:30 and 6:30 PM EST, I think). Anyone interested in taking a look to see what it is, or know what it is from tonight's show? -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Apr 14 21:06:00 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: Proxim RangeLAN2/ISA card? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040414200154.00890250@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040414200154.00890250@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040415020600.GB9546@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Apr 14, 2004 at 08:01:54PM -0400, Joe R. wrote: > I found one of these today. Is anyone familar with them? This one is a 16 > bit ISA card and I can't find anything about this model on the net. Does > anyone know if it's compatible with the current wireless LAN cards? I don't know about _that_ card, but I know that Proxim made WLAN cards that are in the 1-2mbps range and are not compatible with 802.11b. A buddy of mine had several for his house. He had to scrap all of it to upgrade to 802.11 products. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 15-Apr-2004 02:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -55.7 F (-48.7 C) Windchill -105.5 F (-76.40 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 12.6 kts Grid 002 Barometer 684.5 mb (10456. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From pat at computer-refuge.org Wed Apr 14 21:55:23 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: PowerBook 170 question In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040414212718.01f29aa0@popmail.voicenet.com> References: <6.1.0.6.2.20040414212718.01f29aa0@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: <200404142155.23609.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Wednesday 14 April 2004 20:29, Gene Ehrich wrote: > I just acquired a Power Book 170. Hopefully it is old enough to be on > topic here. > > It looks to be in great physical shape but I have a few questions. > When I plug it in there is a mouse pointer and a small blinking > diskette. Just like other Macs, that means it can't find a boot disk. > 1. What do I do next? What disk is it looking for? A bootable disk. > 2. Should there be a hard drive in this computer? Probably. > 3. If there is a hard drive why should it be looking for a diskette? The hard drive isn't bootable. > 4. Battery does hold a charge That's suprising for that old of a PowerBook. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Apr 14 22:01:42 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: PowerBook 170 question In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040414212718.01f29aa0@popmail.voicenet.com> References: <6.1.0.6.2.20040414212718.01f29aa0@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: <20040415030142.GD9546@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Apr 14, 2004 at 09:29:49PM -0400, Gene Ehrich wrote: > I just acquired a Power Book 170. Hopefully it is old enough to be on topic > here. Not sure... I used one in 1996 and it wasn't fresh and new then, so it should be close. > It looks to be in great physical shape but I have a few questions. > When I plug it in there is a mouse pointer and a small blinking diskette. > > 1. What do I do next? What disk is it looking for? It's looking for an operating system. > 2. Should there be a hard drive in this computer? Yes... a 2.5" SCSI disk. > 3. If there is a hard drive why should it be looking for a diskette? The disk could be blank or it could have crashed. I have a PB170 at home now that was free because it was dropped... the screen and case look great. The heads on the floppy were *disloged* (the metal rod they ride on as a rail was out of its clip) and the HD was crashed. It works fine (once I repaired the FD), but I've never ordered a replacement HD - they were too expensive for my tastes 5 years ago. I use it with an external SCSI HD to dump my Apple QuickTake 150 camera. > 4. Battery does hold a charge That's a nice touch. Mine does not, so being tethered to an external HD isn't so bad (though I _can_ use the PB170 with a SCSI ZIP drive and I do have a battery backpack for _that_). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 15-Apr-2004 02:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -56.6 F (-49.2 C) Windchill -106.7 F (-77.09 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 12.6 kts Grid 001 Barometer 684.4 mb (10460. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From torquil at chemist.com Wed Apr 14 22:34:51 2004 From: torquil at chemist.com (Torquil MacCorkle, III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro380, VAXstation References: <6.1.0.6.2.20040414212718.01f29aa0@popmail.voicenet.com> <20040415030142.GD9546@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <005e01c4229a$9dbb9200$0500a8c0@floyd> Since it seems no one has any PDP-11 stuff, does anyone have a Pro380? I'd really just like to learn more about the PDP-11 and this seems like the easiest route. I'd also like to pickup a cheap VAXstation, as it seems my MicroVAX 3100 is broken. Anything working would be good! Any replies appreciated! -------- Thanks, Torquil MacCorkle, III Lexington, Virginia From sastevens at earthlink.net Wed Apr 14 23:31:13 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: PowerBook 170 question In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040414212718.01f29aa0@popmail.voicenet.com> References: <6.1.0.6.2.20040414212718.01f29aa0@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: <20040414233113.1f125248.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:29:49 -0400 Gene Ehrich wrote: > I just acquired a Power Book 170. Hopefully it is old enough to be on topic > here. > > It looks to be in great physical shape but I have a few questions. > When I plug it in there is a mouse pointer and a small blinking diskette. > > 1. What do I do next? What disk is it looking for? > > 2. Should there be a hard drive in this computer? > > 3. If there is a hard drive why should it be looking for a diskette? > > 4. Battery does hold a charge > You can download a MacOS verison to run on that Powerbook direct from Apple. They've put MacOS 7.5 on their site as a free download. It's not completely obvious where to find it. There's a place with links to the download, and a lot of other info you'll probably want about your new Powerbook, at this website: http://lowendmac.com/early-macs.html Trawl around the site and you'll probably find most of what you're wanting. I am the proud (?) owner of a Powerbook 165c. Mine has the regular 4 megs of RAM and an 80 meg hard drive. I keep it around because once in awhile you need something Mac-related, i.e. to read a disk or run something Mac-specific. You will need to find the rectangular cable adapter for the Powerbook to get it's external SCSI port working, which is worth it if you're going to expand it at all. Mac CDROM drives that will work with that machine are near free these days. I have a pile of internal drives. Write me if you want one or a few for the cost of shipping. You can stick one in a generic external SCSI case, if you get the SCSI cable for your Powerbook, and then you've got a CD drive for it. I (or I am sure a lot of other people here) can get you a diskette set of MacOS if you need it to get started on the machine. You might need this from some one else who has a working Mac because to use the downloadable 7.5 OS set from Apple you'll need them on Apple-readable and bootable diskettes to do anything with the machine. This presents sort of a catch-22 if you don't have other Apple equipment to download the disk images to and write them to diskettes. NetBSD on a Mac SE/30 rocks. Scott > > > ================================= > Gene Ehrich > gehrich@tampabay.rr.com > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Apr 15 01:59:09 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: Flash point, laser fuser and lubrication In-Reply-To: "Antonio Carlini" "RE: Flash point, laser fuser and lubrication" (Apr 14, 19:55) References: <003001c42252$13db2c50$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <10404150759.ZM3226@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 14, 19:55, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > I know quite a bit about this actually, because my dad owned > > a fire extinguisher company. The reason you use foam to > > combat a liquid fire is to smother it, > > I've been on the "Fire Warden" course at a local station > precisely once, so I'm afraid that I have to disagree > with you slightly. > > The contents of the extiguisher are entirely immaterial. > The extinguisher is just there to act as a propellant :-) > And the powder ones are allegedly good for annoying the > neighbours and rendering anything in the room utterly > useless in the future. I couldn't possibly admit to knowing ;-) > It's a pity that page about lighting a barbie with LOX > has been taken down ... You've been watching Brainiac, haven't you? BTW, did anyone tape "The Best of Brainiac" on Sky last night? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From heyrick at merseymail.com Wed Apr 14 09:56:50 2004 From: heyrick at merseymail.com (Richard Murray) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: Acorn teletext Message-ID: Hello, I would be interested in any details you have regarding the Acorn teletext adapter. To find out why, look at: http://www.heyrick.co.uk/software/ttx/ Thank you, Rick. -- Richard Murray -------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE eLearning courses for Merseyside SMEs Register NOW at: http://www.training.connect.org.uk/elearning-mm/ Improve your productivity, profitability and competitiveness through learning From vanmuta at socket.net Wed Apr 14 12:55:58 2004 From: vanmuta at socket.net (Kris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: IPC Peripherals MCD-1040 4X 7 disc CD changer Message-ID: <000801c42249$bede8e70$0cd65540@vanmuta> I noticed on a message board that in June of 2003 you posted that you had found an instruction manual for an IPC MCD-1040 7 disc changer. Do you happen to still have the manual, and did you ever get any responses for what kind of cables it used? I recently came upon one the units myself and was wondering the same thing. Kris From ehl at envirohealthlabs.com Wed Apr 14 14:46:04 2004 From: ehl at envirohealthlabs.com (Enviro-Health Research Labs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: QIC80 tapes available Message-ID: <000601c42259$20e6d910$6402a8c0@ehl> Yes, I am interested in QIC-80 Tapes. Please tell me how many tapes you have in total. Please give me your phone number. I will be pleased to call you. Thanks. Vino Vinod From Michel.Arghiriu at cdicorp.com Wed Apr 14 15:27:12 2004 From: Michel.Arghiriu at cdicorp.com (Arghiriu, Michel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: HP-UX 10.20 Message-ID: Hi I need 10.20 and all compliers can you help me. ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ From ulf.andersson at sodra-moinge.se Thu Apr 15 03:34:37 2004 From: ulf.andersson at sodra-moinge.se (Ulf Andersson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: PC boards and software In-Reply-To: <200404150149.VAA11884@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: The standard you are looking for is named EIA-247 and is found at global.ihs.com to the hefty price of USD 78.00. It's somewhat hard to find the standard by using Google or something, but trying out "gerber file format" and "RS-274-D" gave enough leads to start a manual hunt at the standards institutes. Things to look out for: EIA-274-D The TIA/EIA standard ISO 6983 The ISO version (same thing in an ISO wrapper) Looking at the EIA home page (http://www.eia.org) is just depressing. A huge amount of gaudy pictures and policy statements and hard to find facts. Go directly to http://global.ihs.com for a "legal, paid for" copy. At the top left corner of the home page is a search thingamabob. Enter "EIA-247" in the "document number" field and hit the red "SEARCH" button, and off you go. I am sorry, but I have no clue about what all this look like in Lynx :) Perhaps some creative backup of the document somewhere can yield a lower price tag. Not that I recommend it, illegal as it may be and all that... ;-) Good hunt. /Ulf A. ------ der Mouse wrote ------ > Everything I've found seems to point me to Gerber, yes. But I've yet > to find Gerber documentation anywhere (at least anything detailed > enough to be able to write code to). Surely such a thing must exist > somewhere, but I've had no luck finding it. From rbennett at wbbjtv.com Wed Apr 14 10:05:02 2004 From: rbennett at wbbjtv.com (Ray Bennett) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: disk drive Message-ID: I was searching for info on a sony floppy and ran across your website. There was a question on it that was exactly what I need to know. I have a piece of equipment that uses 2 floppy drives, not a pc. They are Sony MP-F52W-00D which I can't find anywhere. Sony has one available for $525 which is a little expenbsive for a 3.5 inch drive. Can you tell me anything about these drives, ie, what type are they, and are there any current drives that would replace them. Maybe there are some still available somewhere. Tahnks From charlesb at otcgaming.net Thu Apr 15 06:18:15 2004 From: charlesb at otcgaming.net (charlesb@otcgaming.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: Acorn teletext References: Message-ID: <001a01c422db$5a25b7a0$0100a8c0@thunder> You can try the 8-bit BBC mailing list.http://nelsonit.net/~jon/BBCMicro/ 8bs website - http://www.8bs.com/ Classic acorn - http://www.classicacorn.freeuk.com/ also, comp.sys.acorn.hardware I hope that helps. if u cant find the mailing list, let me know and i'll cross-post regards ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Murray" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 3:56 PM Subject: Acorn teletext > Hello, > > I would be interested in any details you have regarding the Acorn teletext > adapter. > > To find out why, look at: http://www.heyrick.co.uk/software/ttx/ From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Apr 15 08:39:10 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro380, VAXstation References: <6.1.0.6.2.20040414212718.01f29aa0@popmail.voicenet.com> <20040415030142.GD9546@bos7.spole.gov> <005e01c4229a$9dbb9200$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: <16510.36990.822000.578477@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Torquil" == Torquil MacCorkle, writes: Torquil> Since it seems no one has any PDP-11 stuff, does anyone have Torquil> a Pro380? I'd really just like to learn more about the Torquil> PDP-11 and this seems like the easiest route. Yes, I have one. It hasn't been booted in a while but it still works (it runs RSTS, of all things). I also have manuals for it; those are now in the hands of Al Kossow and can be found on the bitsavers website: http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/EK-PC300-V1-001_pro300tecV1.pdf and ...V2...V2.pdf for the two volumes. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Apr 15 08:44:22 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:50 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro380, VAXstation References: <6.1.0.6.2.20040414212718.01f29aa0@popmail.voicenet.com> <20040415030142.GD9546@bos7.spole.gov> <005e01c4229a$9dbb9200$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: <16510.37302.74000.38654@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Torquil" == Torquil MacCorkle, writes: Torquil> Since it seems no one has any PDP-11 stuff, does anyone have Torquil> a Pro380? I'd really just like to learn more about the Torquil> PDP-11 and this seems like the easiest route. (By the way, my Pro380 isn't for sale... I missed that part of the question.) As for a Pro being the easiest route, I wouldn't say so. The bus architecture is completely unrelated to that of any other PDP11, and ugly/messy/baroque/bogus at that. There is NO DMA. The Ethernet card uses the worst Ethernet chip I know. Off the shelf software for a Pro is P/OS, a mangled version of RSX. I believe there's also an RT11 that works on it. At one time DEC created a Unix for it, then canceled that a week before the product was supposed to ship, and replaced it by a different unrelated Unix instead. Typical DEC messed up management... No other OS runs (stock) on a Pro, though I have modified RSTS to do that. If you have a choice, a PDP11/73 would be a far better choice, or one of the later ones in that small packaging. Or an 11/23, though those are rather slow. paul From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Apr 15 08:57:15 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: PC boards and software In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:38:40 EDT." <200404150149.VAA11884@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <200404151357.i3FDvFX06052@mwave.heeltoe.com> der Mouse wrote: > >I suspect that there are a lot of things I don't know because I've >never done anything of the sort before that everyone in the industry >takes for granted because it's always been done that way. (you may well find that in the end, there were/are actually good reasons for why things "have always been done that way" :-) You didn't ask, but if I was you, I'd do this: - grab a copy of the free eagle - fit your first design into the tiny dimensions the free version allows (and 2 layers). - capture the schematic and then do the layout by hand. you'll find you spend about 90% of your time creating library entries for parts and/or searching the existing libraries for parts which match. This means you'll end up with a .pdf file for *every* part and you'll know the footprint of each part very well. (this part is worth a lot of time - except for shorting power and ground, parts that don't fit on their pads/holes is the most common screwup imho). - use the design rule checking in eagle. it's reasonable (my opinion); don't stop until it's happy. - spend some time on the web googling for things like "pcb design rules" and "design for manufacturability". find sites which talk about proper trace widths, proper multilayer stackups (i.e. where power and ground layer(s) should be), how vias affect signals, etc... you could spend a lifetime on via's alone. I personally love the 3d pictures of signal returns when vias are used for high frequency signals on 8 layer boards :-) - go to www.pcbexpress.com; they have instructions on how to get eagle to spit out gerber files they can use. they can also take the .brd files wholesale. I find their service very reliable and their customer support great. (I use other houses also, but I like pcbexpress - they have been good to me). Their prices are reasonable for quick turn (my opinion). - spend some time looking at the gerbers before you send them off. - plot your files and send them off the pcbexpress. say a short prayer. wait for the UPS person to show up. I would start with a simple 2 layer board. Once that works, try a simple 4 layer board. I would do multiple 4 layers before I went to 6 and 8. Plus, you'll need the commercial version to do that. -brad From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Apr 15 09:03:15 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: PC boards and software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Apr 2004, Ulf Andersson wrote: > The standard you are looking for is named EIA-247 and is found at > global.ihs.com > to the hefty price of USD 78.00. It's somewhat hard to find the standard by > using > Google or something, but trying out "gerber file format" and "RS-274-D" gave > enough leads to start a manual hunt at the standards institutes. > > Things to look out for: > > EIA-274-D The TIA/EIA standard > ISO 6983 The ISO version (same thing in an ISO wrapper) > The document that used to be at Barco (rs274xrevd_e.pdf) is gone but a copy was easily found using ftp search. Also both PCB and GERBV can output RS274 so you might look at the source from those programs Snip-------------------------- Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Apr 15 09:08:12 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: PC boards and software References: <200404150149.VAA11884@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <200404151357.i3FDvFX06052@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <16510.38732.722000.142290@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Brad" == Brad Parker writes: Brad> der Mouse wrote: >> I suspect that there are a lot of things I don't know because >> I've never done anything of the sort before that everyone in the >> industry takes for granted because it's always been done that way. Brad> (you may well find that in the end, there were/are actually Brad> good reasons for why things "have always been done that way" Brad> :-) Brad> You didn't ask, but if I was you, I'd do this: Brad> - grab a copy of the free eagle Brad> - fit your first design into the tiny dimensions the free Brad> version allows (and 2 layers). Brad> - capture the schematic and then do the layout by hand. you'll Brad> find you spend about 90% of your time creating library entries Brad> for parts and/or searching the existing libraries for parts Brad> which match. This means you'll end up with a .pdf file for Brad> *every* part and you'll know the footprint of each part very Brad> well. (this part is worth a lot of time - except for shorting Brad> power and ground, parts that don't fit on their pads/holes is Brad> the most common screwup imho). Eagle has an extensive collection of libraries on the kit, and more available for the download. Apart from some connectors and large integrated circuits, you should find what you need already done. I did a design that uses some DIP ICs, some large pin count ASICs, assorted passive parts, and some connectors. The only parts I needed to create from scratch were the ASICs, a DB-25 connector, an RJ45 connector, a BNC connector, and two MiniCircuits transformers. All the rest was either already there, or most of it was and only signal names needed adjusting. Connectors and such can be created easily from mechanical drawings that the manufacturers have on their websites. For the ASICs, I wrote a small C program that generates an Eagle script to define the pads, which is otherwise a time consuming task. (If anyone wants it, just ask.) paul From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Apr 15 09:26:05 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: QIC80 tapes available Message-ID: <1cc.1e970f76.2daff57d@aol.com> In a message dated 4/15/2004 6:13:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ehl@envirohealthlabs.com writes: << Yes, I am interested in QIC-80 Tapes. Please tell me how many tapes you have in total. Please give me your phone number. I will be pleased to call you. >> I have many types of QIC80 type tapes. Tell me which type (2120XL, 2080,DC2000 for example) and I will check what I have. From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Thu Apr 15 09:30:33 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: PC boards and software In-Reply-To: <200404151357.i3FDvFX06052@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <20040415143033.45426.qmail@web12404.mail.yahoo.com> --- Brad Parker wrote: > - capture the schematic and then do the layout by > hand. you'll find you > spend about 90% of your time creating library > entries for parts and/or > searching the existing libraries for parts which > match. I found this to be the case too, creating libraires and getting around the weird quirks some of the CAD programs have takes LOTS of time. Sometimes I just bypass capturing the schematic (I draw it by hand on a piece of paper) and then do the layout directly using a CAD program. To do this you must become very familar with each chips pinout, but this knowledge is good as it makes it very easy to debug when you get the actual board. This method is sort of an hybrid between the pre CAD layout days and the modern full CAD method used today. Now if I have a cheap, quirk-free CAD program with all the library parts I needed I wouldn't do this, but for now its the quickest method for me. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Apr 15 10:21:58 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: PC boards and software References: <200404151357.i3FDvFX06052@mwave.heeltoe.com> <20040415143033.45426.qmail@web12404.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <16510.43158.977000.341817@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "steve" == steve writes: steve> --- Brad Parker wrote: >> - capture the schematic and then do the layout by hand. you'll >> find you spend about 90% of your time creating library entries for >> parts and/or searching the existing libraries for parts which >> match. steve> I found this to be the case too, creating libraires and steve> getting around the weird quirks some of the CAD programs have steve> takes LOTS of time. I've watched engineers using high priced industrial CAD tools take lots of time for this (so much that it's often contracted out). On the other hand, I found the process with Eagle CAD to be both very painless and very quick. Once I had the program for laying down the SMD pad pattern, I could create a complete library entry for a 120-pin ASIC in just an hour or so. paul From vrs at msn.com Thu Apr 15 11:04:59 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: PC boards and software References: <200404151357.i3FDvFX06052@mwave.heeltoe.com><20040415143033.45426.qmail@web12404.mail.yahoo.com> <16510.43158.977000.341817@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: > steve> I found this to be the case too, creating libraires and > steve> getting around the weird quirks some of the CAD programs have > steve> takes LOTS of time. > > I've watched engineers using high priced industrial CAD tools take > lots of time for this (so much that it's often contracted out). > > On the other hand, I found the process with Eagle CAD to be both very > painless and very quick. Once I had the program for laying down the > SMD pad pattern, I could create a complete library entry for a 120-pin > ASIC in just an hour or so. I think this is one of the things that makes or breaks the usability of CAD software. I was able to design library parts for a number of Gxxx, Mxxx, and Wxxx DEC modules (needed for the TC08 dectape controller) in just a little over a day with the Eagle CAD software. These parts need very elaborate symbol views (essentially logic diagrams, needed to make the schematics that use them readable). Vince From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 15 11:33:20 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer shown on Green Acres? In-Reply-To: <20040415020023.GK224@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040415020023.GK224@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: >Tonight, on Green Acres (on the TV Land channel), they're showing a >1950/1960s minicomputer or mainframe with several tape drives, etc. >Does anyone know what type of computer it is? The show will probably >be repeated sometime tomorrow (probably sometime between 4:30 and 6:30 >PM EST, I think). Anyone interested in taking a look to see what it >is, or know what it is from tonight's show? Based on what I saw last night it looked like three tape drives, a card sorter and either a typewriter or a terminal of some sort. I'm guessing the gear was from the 50's. There was no sign of an actual CPU. No idea who the manufacturer was, those tape drives were rather interesting looking. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Apr 15 12:13:35 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer shown on Green Acres? References: <20040415020023.GK224@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <407EC2BF.2090403@jetnet.ab.ca> Zane H. Healy wrote: > Based on what I saw last night it looked like three tape drives, a card > sorter and either a typewriter or a terminal of some sort. I'm guessing > the gear was from the 50's. There was no sign of an actual CPU. No > idea who the manufacturer was, those tape drives were rather interesting > looking. Still you can still find tape drives being used with recient TV too. While visting somebody, they were channel clicking and Tape Drive flashed by. It think it was part of some sort of police computer. Ben. From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Apr 15 12:25:35 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer shown on Green Acres? References: <20040415020023.GK224@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <407EC2BF.2090403@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <16510.50575.14645.167155@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "ben" == ben franchuk writes: ben> Zane H. Healy wrote: >> Based on what I saw last night it looked like three tape drives, a >> card sorter and either a typewriter or a terminal of some sort. >> I'm guessing the gear was from the 50's. There was no sign of an >> actual CPU. No idea who the manufacturer was, those tape drives >> were rather interesting looking. ben> Still you can still find tape drives being used with recient TV ben> too. While visting somebody, they were channel clicking and ben> Tape Drive flashed by. It think it was part of some sort of ben> police computer. I still remember the opening shot on "3 days of the Condor" with a PDP-8 busily spinning its DECtapes... paul From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Thu Apr 15 12:48:30 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: PC boards and software In-Reply-To: <16510.43158.977000.341817@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040415174830.29583.qmail@web12405.mail.yahoo.com> --- Paul Koning wrote: > On the other hand, I found the process with Eagle > CAD to be both very > painless and very quick. That wasn't my experience with Eagle, I tried the demo for a few days and wasn't able to penetrate thru the user interface to do even the simpliest of things. Its interface seemed completely counter-intuitive as it doesn't adhere to typical windoze interface standards which unfortunately have been hard wired into my brain( eagle maybe a DOS port?). I suppose if I have a experience Eagle user sit down next to me for 15 minutes it would of be a different experience as many people seem to like it. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Apr 15 13:48:31 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: PC boards and software References: <16510.43158.977000.341817@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20040415174830.29583.qmail@web12405.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <16510.55551.708352.650890@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "steve" == steve writes: steve> --- Paul Koning wrote: >> On the other hand, I found the process with Eagle CAD to be both >> very painless and very quick. steve> That wasn't my experience with Eagle, I tried the demo for a steve> few days and wasn't able to penetrate thru the user interface steve> to do even the simpliest of things. Its interface seemed steve> completely counter-intuitive as it doesn't adhere to typical steve> windoze interface standards which unfortunately have been hard steve> wired into my brain( eagle maybe a DOS port?). It certainly is a DOS port; the version I have (2.6) is straight DOS, straight command line. Those commands still work, and the manual may emphasize those, I'm not sure. There are also buttons. And yes, some other aspects are odd because they go back to the DOS code when there wasn't a windows graphics UI convention to adhere to. Things like what happens when you right-click during drawing, or the selection mechanism. It isn't bad, just different. Have you tried the tutorial? (I haven't but I remember it's there on the website.) paul From allain at panix.com Thu Apr 15 15:06:05 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: truckload of PDP stuff References: <200404141722.i3EHMUN29143@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <00c001c42325$169a7580$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem+ACY-item+AD0-4122358161 Winning bid: US +ACQ-1,275.00 Another, gulp... Successful rescue+ACE- John A. From tponsford at theriver.com Thu Apr 15 14:57:28 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro380, VAXstation In-Reply-To: <16510.37302.74000.38654@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <6.1.0.6.2.20040414212718.01f29aa0@popmail.voicenet.com> <20040415030142.GD9546@bos7.spole.gov> <005e01c4229a$9dbb9200$0500a8c0@floyd> <16510.37302.74000.38654@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <407EE928.7040708@theriver.com> Paul Koning wrote: > > As for a Pro being the easiest route, I wouldn't say so. A Pro 350 will most likely be cheaper than a equivalant 11/23+. A Pro 380 although it is an 11/73, is quite a bit slower thatn a real micro 11/73, but is also cheaper. >The bus architecture is completely unrelated to that of any other PDP11, and ugly/messy/baroque/bogus at that. It uses a CTI bus and as far as I know it is the only DEC product (the 300 series) that uses it. It does however, offer bitmap graphics, that is usually unavailable for most pdp's. or you can run it from the serial (maintainace port) (lol) >There is NO DMA. The Ethernet card uses the worst Ethernet chip I know. And on top of that, is made from pure unobtanium :-) > > Off the shelf software for a Pro is P/OS, a mangled version of RSX. believe there's also an RT11 that works on it. At one time DEC created a Unix for it, then canceled that a week before the product > was supposed to ship, and replaced it by a different unrelated Unix instead. Typical DEC messed up management... > P/OS was released by DECUS and is public domain. In addition there is more than enough free software available for it. Good luck trying to find the RT-11 version for the DEC Pro series!! > > No other OS runs (stock) on a Pro, though I have modified RSTS to do > that. There is a (modified) version of BSD 2.9 that runs on the Pro350, and is freely available > If you have a choice, a PDP11/73 would be a far better choice, or one of the later ones in that small packaging. Or an 11/23, though those are rather slow. If you're dilligent, on Ebay a PDP micro-11/73 can go for between $100-300+, and expect to pay between $30-70 for shipping, depending on what kind of chassis it has. A DEC Pro 350 w/HDD will cost you less than $100. A pdp-11/23 will go for between $75-150+. While It's true that an 11/73 is probably a better choice should you want to run a variety of OS's, a dec pro will allow you to own a pdp-11/23+ cheaply. Cheers, Tom -- --- Please do not read this sig. If you have read this far, please unread back to the beginning. From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Apr 15 16:13:33 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro380, VAXstation References: <6.1.0.6.2.20040414212718.01f29aa0@popmail.voicenet.com> <20040415030142.GD9546@bos7.spole.gov> <005e01c4229a$9dbb9200$0500a8c0@floyd> <16510.37302.74000.38654@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <407EE928.7040708@theriver.com> Message-ID: <16510.64253.954727.274185@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Ponsford writes: Tom> Paul Koning wrote: >> The bus architecture is completely unrelated to that of any other >> PDP11, and ugly/messy/baroque/bogus at that. Tom> It uses a CTI bus and as far as I know it is the only DEC Tom> product (the 300 series) that uses it. It does however, offer Tom> bitmap graphics, that is usually unavailable for most pdp's. That's true. A pretty limited one. And does any OS actually support the graphics capabilities? I think even P/OS just treated it as lobotomized VT100. Tom> There is a (modified) version of BSD 2.9 that runs on the Tom> Pro350, and is freely available Hm... interesting. A Pro-380 is close enough to a -350 that it might also run there; if not then it shouldn't be hard to fix. paul From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Apr 15 16:52:03 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro380, VAXstation In-Reply-To: <16510.37302.74000.38654@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <001001c42333$e3d72ad0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > As for a Pro being the easiest route, I wouldn't say so. The > bus architecture is completely unrelated to that of any other > PDP11, and ugly/messy/baroque/bogus at that. There is NO > DMA. The Ethernet card uses the worst Ethernet chip I know. Out of interest, which chip would that be? Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 15 17:24:26 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro380, VAXstation In-Reply-To: <407EE928.7040708@theriver.com> from "Tom Ponsford" at Apr 15, 2004 12:57:28 PM Message-ID: <200404152224.i3FMOQkE029176@onyx.spiritone.com> > If you're dilligent, on Ebay a PDP micro-11/73 can go for between $100-300+, > and expect to pay between $30-70 for shipping, depending on what kind of > chassis it has. A DEC Pro 350 w/HDD will cost you less than $100. A pdp-11/23 > will go for between $75-150+. > > While It's true that an 11/73 is probably a better choice should you want to > run a variety of OS's, a dec pro will allow you to own a pdp-11/23+ cheaply. Hands down, a /73 or better is the way to go. While a Pro350/380 might be cheaper, you're seriously restricted as to what you can use for disk drives (IIRC RD51, RD52, and RD53). With a Q-Bus based PDP-11 you can use 3rd party disk controllers that let you use non-DEC MFM, ESDI, or SCSI Hard Drives. Personally I feel the best plan is to simply start collecting all the pieces needed to build a /23+ or /73 (chassis, CPU, RAM, Disk Controller, etc). This is basically how I built my main PDP-11, though I have others that came complete, or mostly complete. Zane From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Thu Apr 15 17:40:18 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: PC boards and software In-Reply-To: <16510.55551.708352.650890@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040415224018.17102.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> --- Paul Koning wrote: > And yes, some other aspects are odd because they go > back to the DOS > code when there wasn't a windows graphics UI > convention to adhere to. > Things like what happens when you right-click during > drawing, or the > selection mechanism. It isn't bad, just different. > Yes I remember the right click and selection in general drove me nuts. > > Have you tried the tutorial? (I haven't but I > remember it's there on > the website.) > It was few years ago, but I remember printing out the manual and trying a few of the sample exercises, I downloaded another CAD program a few days later that had a standard GUI interface so I gave up on Eagle at that point. steve > paul > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 15 17:46:45 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: Acorn teletext In-Reply-To: from "Richard Murray" at Apr 14, 4 03:56:50 pm Message-ID: > > Hello, > > I would be interested in any details you have regarding the Acorn teletext > adapter. I should have a schematic for it somewhere. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 15 17:50:20 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: disk drive In-Reply-To: from "Ray Bennett" at Apr 14, 4 10:05:02 am Message-ID: > > I was searching for info on a sony floppy and ran across your website. > There was a question on it that was exactly what I need to know. I have a > piece of equipment that uses 2 floppy drives, not a pc. They are Sony > MP-F52W-00D which I can't find anywhere. Sony has one available for $525 > which is a little expenbsive for a 3.5 inch drive. Can you tell me anything > about these drives, ie, what type are they, and are there any current drives Many of the Sony drives rotate at 600 rpm (PC drives rotate at 300 rpm) and thus the data rate at the interface is twice what you'd expect. Do you know if these are double density or high density drives? if the former then I may well have some repair infromation (schematics, etc) for them. I have soemthing for the original full-height units (as used in the HP9114A, 9133, Apricot PC, etc) and the half-height one used in the HP9114B/9153. I forget the model numbers of the drives, but I can look them up if you think they might be similar > that would replace them. Maybe there are some still available somewhere. Why do you think you need a complete new drive rather than parts to fix the drive you have? Many of the parts in the half-height drive I mentioned are also used in the Apple 800K drive, and those seem to be a lot more common! -tony From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Apr 15 18:50:01 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: PC boards and software In-Reply-To: References: <16510.43158.977000.341817@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040415235001.GC2069@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Apr 15, 2004 at 09:04:59AM -0700, vrs wrote: > I think this is one of the things that makes or breaks the usability of CAD > software. Indeed... My experiences with professional copies of OrCAD 10 years ago was that we, too, spent lots of time adding parts to the library. The good news is that for what we were doing (DEC peripherals), once our odd parts were in, we reused that work a lot. > I was able to design library parts for a number of Gxxx, Mxxx, and Wxxx DEC > modules (needed for the TC08 dectape controller) in just a little over a day > with the Eagle CAD software. These parts need very elaborate symbol views > (essentially logic diagrams, needed to make the schematics that use them > readable). Cool! I'd love to see that. BTW, do you have an approximate cost for your TC08? Is it posi- or negi- bus? I have an -8/i and several -8/Ls (the -8/i is negi-bus) and a few TU-56 drives (one on a TD8E, several on a couple of TC-11s). I'd be curious to see if your TC-08 replica would work for me. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 15-Apr-2004 23:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -60.3 F (-51.3 C) Windchill -78 F (-61.1 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 5.6 kts Grid 036 Barometer 682.5 mb (10532 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Apr 15 19:02:52 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro380, VAXstation In-Reply-To: <16510.64253.954727.274185@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <6.1.0.6.2.20040414212718.01f29aa0@popmail.voicenet.com> <20040415030142.GD9546@bos7.spole.gov> <005e01c4229a$9dbb9200$0500a8c0@floyd> <16510.37302.74000.38654@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <407EE928.7040708@theriver.com> <16510.64253.954727.274185@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040416000252.GD2069@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Apr 15, 2004 at 05:13:33PM -0400, Paul Koning wrote: > Tom> There is a (modified) version of BSD 2.9 that runs on the > Tom> Pro350, and is freely available > > Hm... interesting. A Pro-380 is close enough to a -350 that it might > also run there; if not then it shouldn't be hard to fix. Well, the Pro-350 uses an F-11 CPU (same as the 11/23 and 11/24), and the Pro-380 uses a J-11 CPU (same as the 11/73). The largest architectural difference is that the J-11 supports split I&D space. As a result, the Pro-380 should be able to load 2.11BSD which, I _think_, already supports the MSCP disk controller in the Pro series (that's the nature of the patches to 2.9BSD for the Pro-350... adding support for MSCP controllers). I have both models at home, but have never taken the time to load BSD on either one. I was working on them last year, upgrading the 128K boards in my Pro-350s to 512K (remove 4164s, install 41256s, fiddle jumpers), and was beginning to play with my Pro-380 when the PSU died. The Pro-380, BTW, was formerly our 8530 console. When Software Results closed, the 8530 was about the only CPU I didn't rescue (figuring I'd never have access to 3-phase at home, and I already had a VAX-BI machine that ran off of 110VAC). I wish I knew where that console interface ended up - I had no idea at the time there was an IEEE-488 interface as part of it. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 15-Apr-2004 23:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -60.2 F (-51.2 C) Windchill -97.3 F (-71.90 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9 kts Grid 019 Barometer 682.3 mb (10540 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Apr 15 19:19:39 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: PC boards and software In-Reply-To: <200404151357.i3FDvFX06052@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200404151357.i3FDvFX06052@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <200404160027.UAA27561@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> I suspect that there are a lot of things I don't know because I've >> never done anything of the sort before that everyone in the industry >> takes for granted because it's always been done that way. > You didn't ask, but if I was you, I'd do this: > - grab a copy of the free eagle > - fit your first design into the tiny dimensions the free version > allows (and 2 layers). You left out - find a scratch x86 box - pay exorbitant rates for an OS Eagle will run under - assuming the implication I saw on the list that it's Windows-only is correct. And that's all assuming I'd be willing to trust something closed-source in the first place. That's why I was asking about file format documentation, so that I can generate the files myself, by hand if need be, if I can't find anything I can stand to do them myself. I also may see if I can lay it out in a way not too unsuited to a single-sided PCB and then try to do it myself, according to laser printer + transparencies + copper-clad board + photoresist + etchant + light + drill = PCB. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From shirker at mooli.org.uk Thu Apr 15 19:32:33 2004 From: shirker at mooli.org.uk (shirker@mooli.org.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: Data General boards, HP stuff, rainwater damage? Message-ID: <20040416003233.GA6231@mooli.org.uk> Hi folks, Rescued the following last night, amongst some other stuff: * 3 large cards from a DG Nova system (?) around 16" square. - one marked "BASIC IO CONTROL DGC NOVA (C) 1968 DATA GENERAL CORP" This has a small board numbered 70-00196 which appears to have been retrofitted, judging by the number of blue wires running to it from the board itself. This seems to be in good shape. - two related ones, one marked "TELETYPE PLOTTER WITH ALPHANUMERICS ISSUE 1" and then in the top corner "LINK SYSTEMS LTD MADE IN ENGLAND" 2 ICs are missing and one is smashed open, and this board has a 3" or so rip in it - the other marked "TELETYPE PLOTTER WITH ALPHANUMERICS OPTIONS/Q.E.D." 2 ICs are missing from this one. 2 presets mounted on one side of this board look the worse for wear. * Motorola VME? board of some kind. 68020 CPU, 2/3 of VME height (has 2 of the VME-style connectors on one side), 50-pin IDC header on the opposite side, along with 2 switches, 2 red LEDs and 2 green LEDs. * "Opus" badged ADC MM-211 mono monitor, slight screenburn at bottom of CRT, has a DE9 connector with only 6 pins fitted. CGA/EGA? The above are free to good home - you pay postage or collect from near Leeds, UK. Not sure whether these are worth anything or not: * 2 BOC Edwards vacuum meters, one marked "PENNING 8" and one marked "PIRANI 11". About 4"x6" faces, panel mount, mains powered. Each one has a switch to select between ranges, and inputs on the back for the metering hardware. * Watkins-Johnson WJ-269-I Low Noise Amplifier, 2.3-4.5GHz in weird cylindrical black case, 110-120VAC. * Marconi "TF 868B Universal Bridge". Seems in nice condition except for what look like two sets of concentric knobs on the top panel of the unit have been smashed, and the top plate is cracked where this has happened. Make me an offer I can't refuse ;) I'd like Real Money(TM) for the following: * Farnell PU164A rack-mounted telco PSU, provides +5V, +/-12V, -50V, all @ big amps by the looks of the output busbars that were attached to it. Has mains lead, which is just as well as it uses a Bulgin 3-pin mains connector rather than an IEC320 socket. 2U I think. Weighs 12.5kg according to a sticker on it. * Half height (waist height) 19" rack, in fetching chocolate brown colour with folding handles on both sides. Has a piece of kitchen work surface on the top in an attractive pine finish ;) Put your servers in your kitchen? (The ultimate in domestically-acceptable 19" racks maybe?) Has big castors for ease of shiftage. Again, please make an offer by email if you're interested, otherwise they hit ePay. And the following I'll most likely keep, but anything anyone can tell me about it would be much appreciated (specifically what's needed in terms of hardware/software to control it): * HP computer-controlled test & measurement system, comprising: - 61001A System Power Unit - 61010A Digital I/O - 61011A Relay Mux - 61012A Dual Voltage DAC - 61013A Digital Multimeter - 61014A Function Generator - 61015A Counter - 61016A Digitizing Oscilloscope - 61017A Relay Actuator I had thought these would be HPIB, but the cable (26-way ribbon) looks nothing like it. Any/all info about these would be most handy. And now to the "rainwater" bit - I found all this in a skip (or "dumpster" for those of you of a North American persuasion) which was outside, so these things have been being rained on (except the telco PSU, which was in the rack and so will have been protected from rain). I haven't opened any of them up yet to check for corrosion, but I've spotted some rust on the edge of the casing of the 61001A already. What's the best way to deal with this stuff to prevent any further damage, and rectify (if necessary) any that the water has caused, if indeed it's caused any at all? Other than obvious corrosion, how would I tell? None of it was lying in standing water, FWIW - I don't think there was any in the skip, and this stuff was all well above it. TIA, Ed. From vrs at msn.com Thu Apr 15 19:28:45 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: PC boards and software References: <16510.43158.977000.341817@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20040415235001.GC2069@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: > > I was able to design library parts for a number of Gxxx, Mxxx, and Wxxx DEC > > modules (needed for the TC08 dectape controller) in just a little over a day > > with the Eagle CAD software. These parts need very elaborate symbol views > > (essentially logic diagrams, needed to make the schematics that use them > > readable). > > Cool! I'd love to see that. I can send it to you if you like; the library itself is not too large (but the TC08 is hundreds of Kbytes). Basically, there are two packages -- a one high 36 pin socket, and a two high (2x36 pins) socket. The modules have a symbolic view, usually a gate or group of gates, and the parts (modules) bind the pads on the socket to the logical pins, for as many gates (or groups of gates) as the module implements. > BTW, do you have an approximate cost for your TC08? Is it posi- or negi- > bus? I have an -8/i and several -8/Ls (the -8/i is negi-bus) and a few > TU-56 drives (one on a TD8E, several on a couple of TC-11s). I'd be > curious to see if your TC-08 replica would work for me. The board fab wants about $450 for the first one, and about $90 for each additional. It is a big board, right at the limit of the size the fab will do (4 layer board, 18" x 14"). Whether it turned out to be Posibus or Negibus would depend on whether you populated the backplane with M623s or M633s, etc. (As far as I can tell, there is no wiring difference in the backplane itself.) I have also been slowly puttering away at replicas of the modules themselves, but don't have many of those done yet. The main problem I have is the steep cost of a single board, which prevents me from ordering one until I am darn sure it is right. I have been unable to find a TC08 wire list to check my netlist against, so it would come down to ordering a board, installing connectors, modules, etc. and testing the result. The chances of it working the first time are none too good, and the PCB is not easily repaired/patched (half the wiring is buried inside the board, and half the rest is under the connectors). Of course, once it was debugged, it would be much easier to build TC08s :-). If you have a TC08 to debug, the readable schematics and virtual backplane ("show xsta") would help you with your debugging. (I don't have one, hence the project :-).) If I was pretty sure the wiring matched DEC's, I'd risk the money to build one and see how it went. Until then the project is kinda on hold. Vince From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Apr 15 19:49:04 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro380, VAXstation References: <16510.37302.74000.38654@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <001001c42333$e3d72ad0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <16511.11648.447000.616559@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Antonio" == Antonio Carlini writes: >> As for a Pro being the easiest route, I wouldn't say so. The bus >> architecture is completely unrelated to that of any other PDP11, >> and ugly/messy/baroque/bogus at that. There is NO DMA. The >> Ethernet card uses the worst Ethernet chip I know. Antonio> Out of interest, which chip would that be? Intel 82586, if I remember right. It uses queues, not rings, for its commands. There are race conditions in the programming interface so that the chip sometimes sets a queue to empty at the same time that the driver puts a new entry on the queue, which forces the driver to notice that and repair the confusion. This is why real Ethernet chips use rings. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Apr 15 19:59:44 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro380, VAXstation References: <6.1.0.6.2.20040414212718.01f29aa0@popmail.voicenet.com> <20040415030142.GD9546@bos7.spole.gov> <005e01c4229a$9dbb9200$0500a8c0@floyd> <16510.37302.74000.38654@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <407EE928.7040708@theriver.com> <16510.64253.954727.274185@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20040416000252.GD2069@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <16511.12288.234000.648750@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ethan" == Ethan Dicks writes: Ethan> On Thu, Apr 15, 2004 at 05:13:33PM -0400, Paul Koning wrote: Tom> There is a (modified) version of BSD 2.9 that runs on the Tom> Pro350, and is freely available >> Hm... interesting. A Pro-380 is close enough to a -350 that it >> might also run there; if not then it shouldn't be hard to fix. Ethan> Well, the Pro-350 uses an F-11 CPU (same as the 11/23 and Ethan> 11/24), and the Pro-380 uses a J-11 CPU (same as the 11/73). Ethan> The largest architectural difference is that the J-11 supports Ethan> split I&D space. As a result, the Pro-380 should be able to Ethan> load 2.11BSD which, I _think_, already supports the MSCP disk Ethan> controller in the Pro series (that's the nature of the patches Ethan> to 2.9BSD for the Pro-350... adding support for MSCP Ethan> controllers). The PRO disk controller isn't an MSCP controller, not within 100 miles. It's a one sector at a time programmed I/O controller, somewhat on the same level of sophistication as a PC floppy controller. The most obvious difference between a Pro-380 and other J-11 based systems is that the Pro clocks the CPU at 10 MHz and the others use around 18 MHz. The reason is that the Pro system controller ASIC used a synchronous design, so the CPU clock had to be an integer multiple of the bus clock. The bus clock frequency was set at 10 MHz, and the assumption was that Harris would deliver on its promise of a 20 MHz J-11 chip. No such luck -- the best they ever managed was 18 MHz, and that forced the Pro to the next lower integer multiple -- 10 MHz... :-( Another difference is that the Pro-380 has a bunch of stuff on the motherboard that's on option cards in the Pro-350 -- the graphics in particular. And the memory isn't on the CTI bus, it's on a dedicated card. Some vague memory says the graphics has more goodies, but I don't remember. It's all in the manual on bitsavers.org... paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Apr 15 20:01:08 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: PC boards and software References: <200404151357.i3FDvFX06052@mwave.heeltoe.com> <200404160027.UAA27561@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <16511.12372.100000.748597@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "der" == der Mouse writes: der> You left out der> - find a scratch x86 box der> - pay exorbitant rates for an OS Eagle will run under - assuming der> the implication I saw on the list that it's Windows-only is der> correct. Negative, it runs on Windows and Linux (both the freeware and paid-for versions). der> And that's all assuming I'd be willing to trust something der> closed-source in the first place. So I guess it's time to look at the open source tools that were mentioned the other day. I'll be doing that... paul From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Apr 15 21:41:01 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: SSMEC? References: <3.0.6.32.20040410075418.00853a10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <007101c4235c$419ba7e0$95f7a8ac@aoldsl.net> I wonder if that is one of our old babies under Sharpe's southwest museum of engineering and communication...... pray tell was this found in California? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 4:54 AM Subject: SSMEC? > Does anyone know of any computer related meaning for the name/acronym > SSMEC? I've found some Honeywell H316 parts that are marked 'for program > SSMEC'. I've found one definition of SSMEC but the meanng seems to be a > little too fantastic. > > Joe > > From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Apr 15 21:41:01 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: SSMEC? References: <3.0.6.32.20040410075418.00853a10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <007101c4235c$419ba7e0$95f7a8ac@aoldsl.net> I wonder if that is one of our old babies under Sharpe's southwest museum of engineering and communication...... pray tell was this found in California? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 4:54 AM Subject: SSMEC? > Does anyone know of any computer related meaning for the name/acronym > SSMEC? I've found some Honeywell H316 parts that are marked 'for program > SSMEC'. I've found one definition of SSMEC but the meanng seems to be a > little too fantastic. > > Joe > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Apr 15 21:04:39 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: SSMEC? In-Reply-To: <007101c4235c$419ba7e0$95f7a8ac@aoldsl.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20040410075418.00853a10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040415220439.00854430@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:41 PM 4/15/04 -0700, you wrote: >I wonder if that is one of our old babies under Sharpe's southwest museum of >engineering and communication...... pray tell was this found in >California? No. They were found in Florida and it appears that they came from Honeywell in Clearwater (per paperwork found in a couple of the bags). SSMEC also stands for Space Shuttle Main Engine Computer and some of those were built there at Honeywell in Clearwater. SOME of these are definitely Honeywell H316 (aka Kitchen Computer) parts but almost all are marked for program SSMEC. That's why I'd trying to figure out what the connection is. Joe >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe R." >To: >Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 4:54 AM >Subject: SSMEC? > > >> Does anyone know of any computer related meaning for the name/acronym >> SSMEC? I've found some Honeywell H316 parts that are marked 'for program >> SSMEC'. I've found one definition of SSMEC but the meanng seems to be a >> little too fantastic. >> >> Joe >> >> > > From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Apr 15 22:23:24 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: SSMEC? References: <3.0.6.32.20040410075418.00853a10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040415220439.00854430@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <008001c42362$2d5aa960$95f7a8ac@aoldsl.net> ok! we sold the last of the 316/ 516 to the calif state gov. 18 years ago. I sure kick my self in the ass for not saving one..... they had a critical application and needed hem for parts... I would not be where I am now had it not been for folk as them and others... so a little pay back is a good thing... but.... whine wish I had kept one.... Thanks! Ed Sharpe Archivist for SMECC See the Southwest Museum of Engineering, Communications and Computation online at: http://www.smecc.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "Ed Sharpe" ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 7:04 PM Subject: Re: SSMEC? > At 07:41 PM 4/15/04 -0700, you wrote: > >I wonder if that is one of our old babies under Sharpe's southwest museum of > >engineering and communication...... pray tell was this found in > >California? > > No. They were found in Florida and it appears that they came from > Honeywell in Clearwater (per paperwork found in a couple of the bags). > SSMEC also stands for Space Shuttle Main Engine Computer and some of those > were built there at Honeywell in Clearwater. SOME of these are definitely > Honeywell H316 (aka Kitchen Computer) parts but almost all are marked for > program SSMEC. That's why I'd trying to figure out what the connection is. > > Joe > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Joe R." > >To: > >Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 4:54 AM > >Subject: SSMEC? > > > > > >> Does anyone know of any computer related meaning for the name/acronym > >> SSMEC? I've found some Honeywell H316 parts that are marked 'for program > >> SSMEC'. I've found one definition of SSMEC but the meanng seems to be a > >> little too fantastic. > >> > >> Joe > >> > >> > > > > > > From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Thu Apr 15 21:52:29 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: Contact Ethan Dicks References: <407C5113.64EFD189@compsys.to> <20040414001517.GA6460@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <407F4A6D.CE87A3A0@compsys.to> >Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Tue, Apr 13, 2004 at 04:44:03PM -0400, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > Hi Ethan, > > I have tried to send you a private e-mail, but it is rejected? > What address? Attachments? > Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov Jerome Fine replies: I used , the "From" address in your e-mails. This time I also included the 3rd option. Other private e-mails have been sent and received in the past using "dickset", so I am confused? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Thu Apr 15 22:10:25 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro380, VAXstation References: <6.1.0.6.2.20040414212718.01f29aa0@popmail.voicenet.com> <20040415030142.GD9546@bos7.spole.gov> <005e01c4229a$9dbb9200$0500a8c0@floyd> <16510.37302.74000.38654@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <407EE928.7040708@theriver.com> Message-ID: <407F4EA1.C29D581A@compsys.to> >Tom Ponsford wrote: > Paul Koning wrote: > A Pro 350 will most likely be cheaper than a equivalant 11/23+. A Pro 380 > although it is an 11/73, is quite a bit slower thatn a real micro 11/73, but > is also cheaper. Jerome Fine replies: It may also depend on how many PRO380 systems are still around as opposed to PDP-11/73 systems. I often found PDP-11/73 systems available for tossing up to about 5 years ago. > >The bus architecture is completely unrelated to that of any other PDP11, and ugly/messy/baroque/bogus at that. > It does however, offer bitmap graphics, that is usually unavailable for most > pdp's. or you can run it from the serial (maintainace port) (lol) Why DEC did not make this feature generally available is not clear. Probably the competition from the PC was not sufficient until after around 1989 when the 486 became available. By that time, DEC was already attempting to kill the PDP-11 in general and RT-11 in particular, or so it seems from what DEC was doing. V05.05 was released in October 1989. V05.06 was released in August 1992 WITHOUT being fully Y2K compliant. > Good luck trying to find the RT-11 version for the DEC Pro series!! As far as I can see, all RT-11 distributions starting with V05.01 in 1984 can run on the DEC PRO series. They use the monitor RT11PI.SYS and device drivers DW.SYS and DZ.SYS plus PI.SYS must also be present. Of course, booting an RX50 floppy requires that the user set up the boot blocks as well, usually not on a PRO. The command would be: COPY/BOOT:DZ DU0:RT11PI.SYS DU0: Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 15 22:33:48 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro380, VAXstation In-Reply-To: <407F4EA1.C29D581A@compsys.to> from "Jerome H. Fine" at Apr 15, 2004 11:10:25 PM Message-ID: <200404160333.i3G3Xmla005840@onyx.spiritone.com> > Jerome Fine replies: > > It may also depend on how many PRO380 systems are still > around as opposed to PDP-11/73 systems. I often found > PDP-11/73 systems available for tossing up to about 5 years > ago. Now there is an interesting, and very valid point. Personally the only DEC PRO system I've found was the system console for a VAX. Now that you mention it, I don't think I recall seeing any available in recent years. At the same time this could partially be a geographical situation (even with eBay, as most systems probably don't end up there, insted ending up at a scrapper). Recently someone commented that a PDT-11/150 was pretty common, however, he was in the heart of the old DEC country. It's been my experience that PDT-11/150's are anything but common with PDP-8's being more common! I maintain the way to go is to simply start collecting the parts needed to build a Q-Bus system. Remember a MicroVAX II can be used as the chassis (that's what the BA123 I use originally was). Zane From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 15 23:16:38 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro380, VAXstation In-Reply-To: <200404160333.i3G3Xmla005840@onyx.spiritone.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at Apr 15, 4 08:33:48 pm Message-ID: > At the same time this could partially be a geographical situation (even with > eBay, as most systems probably don't end up there, insted ending up at a > scrapper). Recently someone commented that a PDT-11/150 was pretty common, > however, he was in the heart of the old DEC country. It's been my > experience that PDT-11/150's are anything but common with PDP-8's being more > common! Well, I've not seen either for some time, but over the years I've managed to obtain an 8/e and 8/a. I've never seen a PDT-11/anything 'in the flesh' though... -tony From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Apr 15 23:32:01 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: Contact Ethan Dicks In-Reply-To: <407F4A6D.CE87A3A0@compsys.to> References: <407C5113.64EFD189@compsys.to> <20040414001517.GA6460@bos7.spole.gov> <407F4A6D.CE87A3A0@compsys.to> Message-ID: <20040416043201.GA27245@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Apr 15, 2004 at 10:52:29PM -0400, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > >Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > On Tue, Apr 13, 2004 at 04:44:03PM -0400, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > > Hi Ethan, > > > I have tried to send you a private e-mail, but it is rejected? > > What address? Attachments? > > Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov That should work just fine. > Jerome Fine replies: > > I used , the "From" address > in your e-mails. This time I also included the 3rd option. I noticed in the header for this one that you misspelled "dickset"... -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 16-Apr-2004 04:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -59 F (-50.6 C) Windchill -91.2 F (-68.40 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8.1 kts Grid 028 Barometer 681.4 mb (10571. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Apr 16 02:45:02 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: Proxim RangeLAN2/ISA card? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040414200154.00890250@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Apr 2004, Joe R. wrote: > I found one of these today. Is anyone familar with them? This one is a 16 > bit ISA card and I can't find anything about this model on the net. Does > anyone know if it's compatible with the current wireless LAN cards? They are not. Howver, they are standard 2Mbps cards running on 2.4GHz, using either FH or DS mode. Drivers are available for most operating systems. DEC re-used (sort-of OEM'ed) these cards for their RoamAbout series of products, which later was taken over by Enterasys, who turned them into WiFi-standard products. The DEC RoamAbout 2.4 cards (DEIRB) and the access point will happily talk to your RL2 card. Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From cheri-post at web.de Fri Apr 16 06:22:08 2004 From: cheri-post at web.de (Pierre Gebhardt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: help needed with Fujitsu M244x reel tape drive Message-ID: <335845799@web.de> Hi all ! Yesterday, I got the hand on a Fujitsu drive model 2443 (rack version). The drive seems to be in a good shape. The only problem is, that the front door with the control panel is missing, I figured it out with the help of the manual on Al's site (thanks once again, Al !!). Unfortunately, the manual doesn't contain schematics of the drive, so that I could rebuild a control panel, as it just has several light indicators and some switches. Does anybody have schematics for the control panel of this beast or a panel he would like to sell or get rid off ? Any help is appreciated Pierre ____________________________________________________________________ Der WEB.DE Virenschutz schuetzt Ihr Postfach vor dem Wurm Sober.A-F! Kostenfrei fuer FreeMail Nutzer. http://f.web.de/?mc=021158 From martinm at allwest.net Fri Apr 16 07:38:34 2004 From: martinm at allwest.net (Martin Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: Tricord Powerframe 30 Parts Available Message-ID: <407FD3CA.7030706@allwest.net> I have a couple of Tricord Powerframe 30 computers that are destined for scrap. These are huge i486 boxes with all proprietary components. If anyone wants any parts of these, let me know and I'll remove and ship the parts. Martin Marshall From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Apr 16 08:24:10 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: FS/FT: MTI Stingray SCSI - HSC for CI VAX Cluster Message-ID: <20040416132410.GA14881@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Hi. I have a MTI Stingray SCSI HSC. I.e. a 3 U 19" rack mount box that has a VAX CI (4 x Coax) interface on one side and a (HVD) SCSI interface on the other side. It appears on the CI as single cluster node with several attached disks, like a real DEC HSC. Together with the HSC come four SCSI drive canisters. Each of it can hold at least two SCSI disks. The SCSI drive canisters also contain some electronic to convert the 8 bit single ended SCSI bus of the disks to the 8 bit HVD SCSI bus of the Stingray HSC. There is also rack mount stuff for the drive canisters. So you can get a complete CI HSC with 7 SCSI disks in 9 U 19" rack space. I have a MTI CIQBA Qbus to CI adapter also. Yes, a Qbus to CI adapter. It needs special (VMS) drivers that you can get from MTI. There are no disks in the canisters. I had to leave the disks at the company where I got this machinery. There where some Seagate and Micropolis disks in the range from 2 to 4 GB in the canisters. I suspect that 7 x 4 GB is sufficient for a small home VAX cluster. ;-) Unfortunately I don't have any cables, so I can't test this. All I did was to plug in a MMJ cable to the console of the Stingray SCSI HSC and play with its firmware. I would like to trade SCSI HSC + drive canisters + CIQBA for some other nifty equipment, preferably DEC, but I am interrested in any *ix stuff. (Even if it is younger then 10 years. Special Interrest: SGI Octane CPU mudule > 300 MHz R12k or Vpro GFX or HP9000 Cxxxx. ;-) ) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From brad at heeltoe.com Fri Apr 16 09:14:28 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: PC boards and software In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:19:39 EDT." <200404160027.UAA27561@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <200404161414.i3GEESm17182@mwave.heeltoe.com> der Mouse wrote: > >You left out > >- find a scratch x86 box > >- pay exorbitant rates for an OS Eagle will run under - assuming the > implication I saw on the list that it's Windows-only is correct. eagle runs under linux (as well as windos). runs well under X. >And that's all assuming I'd be willing to trust something closed-source >in the first place. take a look at the scripting language. I don't think there is *anything* you can't get at with it. you have access to the full internal database near as I can tell (which is more than I've seen with any other cad package) >I also may see if I can lay it out in a way not too unsuited to a >single-sided PCB and then try to do it myself, according to laser >printer + transparencies + copper-clad board + photoresist + etchant + >light + drill = PCB. to be honest, these days, I think using an outside service for a 2 layer board is *much* easier and no more expensive (when you add up everything). (I've done single side boards from scratch, fish tank bubbler and all. never again.) -brad From brad at heeltoe.com Fri Apr 16 09:41:10 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: ra90 - actuator pin sticking? Message-ID: <200404161441.i3GEfAK17465@mwave.heeltoe.com> I should probably search the archive, but has anyone experience with RA90's? I got one recently and when I powered it up (after a thorough cleaning) it faulted with E9. I have (thankfully) several manuals for this device and it seems to indicate the solenoid which "pulls the pin" on what looks like the voice coil head motion thing may be sticking. "head motion thing" - that's a techinical term. (ok, if you must know, I bought it on ebay, but for 2 orders of magnitude less than the truck full of pdp's :-) I've decided that I like RA90's better than RA81's :-) mostly because I can lift them :-) The drive spins up and I can run the diagnostics. The simple tests work. any thoughts? -brad From MTPro at aol.com Fri Apr 16 10:05:11 2004 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? Message-ID: <2BA91DBB.775987C0.0000EF7A@aol.com> I don't take the opportunity enough to engage in much actual discussion on this list, but I would like to. I also rarely get a chance to actually "play" with my keeper collection of computers, which I have recently narrowed down to just "keepers." Anyway, with a busy job, three kids and a house, time is always short, but I do find time to enjoy a couple of other hobbies. I guess after twelve plus years of ravinously reading everything about computer history, and having owned more or less every important old computer at one time or another, my interests are shifting. This doesn't mean that I won't be playing with the collection, but in a more limited way. Gotta get the garage setup finally with some work areas. As for other hobbies, I am mostly doing a lot of reading online, and reading physical books as well. I've recently added to my extensive computer history / collecting library some very nice books about Disney Imagineering, Disney history (Walt and the parks, movies, etc.), and some books on toy collecting. I'm also very interested in sceptical research and debunking of psuedoscience, bad MLM and so-called health related products. But toys have always been a soft-spot for me, which my first computer started off as (C64). My daughter has an Easy Bake oven, and I just got my son a Queasy Bake. We also enjoy the number of sets of Creepy Crawler ovens too, remember those anyone? Anyway, I'm intrigued with the history of cooking toys now and have been looking deeper into that, as well as checking out eBay for such items. My family loves to cook and we're big fans of the Food Network. I have started on the path of the history of cooking toys and the collecting of them. There are many interesting types too: ovens of course (desert baking mostly)pizza oven (Pizza Hut, Dominoes and Chucky Cheese)slushie makersCotten candy makersice cream makersgummy makerschocolate candy makersdrink makers... geez, the journey begins. So, anyone else like to expose any other collecting and/or strange behavior of their own? Ah, the kicker too . . . have their ever been a microcomputer controlled cooking toy? Could their be? Hmmmmm . . . Best, David Greelish, classiccomputing.com From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Apr 16 10:51:22 2004 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:51 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City Message-ID: I just got word from a friend that a company in Kansas City is planning to dispose of the following. DEC VAX 785 in three 6' cabinets DEC PDP 11/70 in ten 6' cabinets, this may be two computers 4 RM03 disk drives 2 TU80 tape drives Other disks for VAX That is what they remembered without actually having a list. I'm trying to set up a time to actually see them. Here is the other information I have received. There is a company from Topeka that will take them away if they are paid to remove them. The 785 was running 3 months ago when they erased all of the media. It has been about a year since the 11/70's were on. They are not currently running. They are checking on the legal requirements that they may have to go through to dispose of these units. They are worried about making sure they aren't legally libel if somebody dumps them improperly. Whoever takes them away may have to be a GE approved vender. I'll keep everybody informed. Thanks Mike From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Apr 16 11:42:51 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: FS/FT: MTI Stingray SCSI - HSC for CI VAX Cluster References: <20040416132410.GA14881@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <16512.3339.100000.846980@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jochen" == Jochen Kunz writes: Jochen> Hi. I have a MTI Stingray SCSI HSC. ... Jochen> Unfortunately I don't have any cables, so I can't test Jochen> this. What cables do you need? CI cables? That is 50 ohm cable with TNC connectors. That connector type is commonly used in car cellphone installations (car cellphone antennas typically have TNC connectors) so if that's all you need, you might ask a cellphone installer's shop. paul From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Apr 16 11:38:50 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City References: Message-ID: <008701c423d1$4beee160$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I might be able to take this one on... maybe... keep me posted! Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "McFadden, Mike" To: Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 10:51 AM Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City > I just got word from a friend that a company in Kansas City is planning > to dispose of the following. > > DEC VAX 785 in three 6' cabinets > DEC PDP 11/70 in ten 6' cabinets, this may be two computers > 4 RM03 disk drives > 2 TU80 tape drives > Other disks for VAX > That is what they remembered without actually having a list. > > I'm trying to set up a time to actually see them. > > Here is the other information I have received. > > There is a company from Topeka that will take them away if they are paid > to remove them. > > The 785 was running 3 months ago when they erased all of the media. > It has been about a year since the 11/70's were on. > > They are not currently running. > > They are checking on the legal requirements that they may have to go > through to dispose of these units. > They are worried about making sure they aren't legally libel if somebody > dumps them improperly. > > Whoever takes them away may have to be a GE approved vender. > > I'll keep everybody informed. > > Thanks > Mike > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Apr 16 11:57:07 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <008701c423d1$4beee160$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040416115651.03aecab8@mail.ubanproductions.com> And I might be able to help. --tom At 11:38 AM 4/16/2004 -0500, you wrote: >I might be able to take this one on... maybe... keep me posted! > >Jay >----- Original Message ----- >From: "McFadden, Mike" >To: >Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 10:51 AM >Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City > > > > I just got word from a friend that a company in Kansas City is planning > > to dispose of the following. > > > > DEC VAX 785 in three 6' cabinets > > DEC PDP 11/70 in ten 6' cabinets, this may be two computers > > 4 RM03 disk drives > > 2 TU80 tape drives > > Other disks for VAX > > That is what they remembered without actually having a list. > > > > I'm trying to set up a time to actually see them. > > > > Here is the other information I have received. > > > > There is a company from Topeka that will take them away if they are paid > > to remove them. > > > > The 785 was running 3 months ago when they erased all of the media. > > It has been about a year since the 11/70's were on. > > > > They are not currently running. > > > > They are checking on the legal requirements that they may have to go > > through to dispose of these units. > > They are worried about making sure they aren't legally libel if somebody > > dumps them improperly. > > > > Whoever takes them away may have to be a GE approved vender. > > > > I'll keep everybody informed. > > > > Thanks > > Mike > > > > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Apr 16 12:01:09 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City References: Message-ID: <00b101c423d4$6b6b0070$36406b43@66067007> I got my 501(c)3 nonprofit status letter from the IRS yesterday in the mail for my museum here in Houston. And it's only a 10 hour or less drive to KC if you need help removing it. I can offer them a tax write off for the equipment. ----- Original Message ----- From: "McFadden, Mike" To: Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 10:51 AM Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City > I just got word from a friend that a company in Kansas City is planning > to dispose of the following. > > DEC VAX 785 in three 6' cabinets > DEC PDP 11/70 in ten 6' cabinets, this may be two computers > 4 RM03 disk drives > 2 TU80 tape drives > Other disks for VAX > That is what they remembered without actually having a list. > > I'm trying to set up a time to actually see them. > > Here is the other information I have received. > > There is a company from Topeka that will take them away if they are paid > to remove them. > > The 785 was running 3 months ago when they erased all of the media. > It has been about a year since the 11/70's were on. > > They are not currently running. > > They are checking on the legal requirements that they may have to go > through to dispose of these units. > They are worried about making sure they aren't legally libel if somebody > dumps them improperly. > > Whoever takes them away may have to be a GE approved vender. > > I'll keep everybody informed. > > Thanks > Mike > > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Apr 16 12:00:04 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? References: <2BA91DBB.775987C0.0000EF7A@aol.com> Message-ID: <40801114.9040906@jetnet.ab.ca> MTPro@aol.com wrote: > Toys ... http://users.snowcrest.net/fox/ Check the 'toy shelf' here. I can't think of any cooking toys with puters in them. Nowdays I think you can build a real phone cheaper than a toy phone sells for. Ben. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Apr 16 12:10:41 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: manuals for programmer Message-ID: <200404161710.KAA05982@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Al I'm going to need to dump some 2708's soon. Do you think I can get the manuals back on Monday? Dwight From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Apr 16 12:17:12 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: manuals for programmer Message-ID: <200404161717.KAA05994@clulw009.amd.com> Sorry folks I ment it for Al Kossow. Dwight >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" > >Hi Al > I'm going to need to dump some 2708's soon. Do >you think I can get the manuals back on Monday? >Dwight > > > From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Apr 16 12:36:38 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <40801114.9040906@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <2BA91DBB.775987C0.0000EF7A@aol.com> <40801114.9040906@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20040416173638.GF11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe ben franchuk, from writings of Fri, Apr 16, 2004 at 11:00:04AM -0600: > Nowdays I think you can build a real phone cheaper than a > toy phone sells for. Why give a child a toy telephone anyway? Wouldn't it be better to give a child a broken, or cheap, real telephone along with a set of screwdrivers and, if at least six or seven years sold, a soldering iron as well? -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri Apr 16 12:33:13 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200404161233.14191.pat@computer-refuge.org> McFadden, Mike declared on Friday 16 April 2004 10:51 am: > I just got word from a friend that a company in Kansas City is > planning to dispose of the following. > > DEC VAX 785 in three 6' cabinets > DEC PDP 11/70 in ten 6' cabinets, this may be two computers > 4 RM03 disk drives > 2 TU80 tape drives > Other disks for VAX > That is what they remembered without actually having a list. And just perfect the wrong time for me to be able to "help" with anything. Maybe. Of course, it looks like I'm too far from the top of the list to be given the opportunity to help... Still I would love to have any part of this... the RM03's would work nicely on my 11/750 that needs some drives. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri Apr 16 12:37:22 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: PC boards and software In-Reply-To: <200404161414.i3GEESm17182@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200404161414.i3GEESm17182@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <200404161742.NAA11201@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> And that's all assuming I'd be willing to trust something >> closed-source in the first place. > take a look at the scripting language. Irrelevant, unless the interpreter underneath it is open-source - in which case there wouldn't be issues about crippled free versions versus uncrippled for-pay versions. >> I also may see if I can lay it out in a way not too unsuited to a >> single-sided PCB and then try to do it myself, according to laser >> printer + transparencies + copper-clad board + photoresist + etchant >> + light + drill = PCB. > to be honest, these days, I think using an outside service for a 2 > layer board is *much* easier and no more expensive (when you add up > everything). If you're willing (and able) to run closed-source software, probably so. I'm not. I _have_ seen pointers to some open-source software that may do the job. I haven't yet investigated any of them in any detail, but I saved the pointers. I also may build something myself.... /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From wacarder at usit.net Fri Apr 16 13:33:19 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City Message-ID: <27743585.1082140402383.JavaMail.root@ernie.psp.pas.earthlink.net> And since I'm the new kid on the block here on this list, I guess I'll just have to sit here in the Southeast and salivate as I watch you guys who are way ahead of me go home with more good stuff!!!!! I want a real unibus PDP-11 badly so I can move a copy of my reincarnated college 11/40 RSTS/E environment off Bob Supnik's simulator and onto some real hardware. It seems like the guys that have all the good stuff already just keep getting more while the latecomers sit here with the simulator running the old stuff on a PC via Telnet. No, I'm not whining..... :-) Ashley P.S. If any of you ever want to give a PDP-11 to a good home...... -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Finnegan Sent: Apr 16, 2004 1:33 PM To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Subject: Re: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City McFadden, Mike declared on Friday 16 April 2004 10:51 am: > I just got word from a friend that a company in Kansas City is > planning to dispose of the following. > > DEC VAX 785 in three 6' cabinets > DEC PDP 11/70 in ten 6' cabinets, this may be two computers > 4 RM03 disk drives > 2 TU80 tape drives > Other disks for VAX > That is what they remembered without actually having a list. And just perfect the wrong time for me to be able to "help" with anything. Maybe. Of course, it looks like I'm too far from the top of the list to be given the opportunity to help... Still I would love to have any part of this... the RM03's would work nicely on my 11/750 that needs some drives. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From charlesb at otcgaming.net Fri Apr 16 13:36:40 2004 From: charlesb at otcgaming.net (charlesb@otcgaming.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? References: <2BA91DBB.775987C0.0000EF7A@aol.com><40801114.9040906@jetnet.ab.ca> <20040416173638.GF11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <001901c423e1$c3474c60$0100a8c0@thunder> aint that how we all started ? :D ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 6:36 PM Subject: Re: Other collecting activities? > Quothe ben franchuk, from writings of Fri, Apr 16, 2004 at 11:00:04AM -0600: > > Nowdays I think you can build a real phone cheaper than a > > toy phone sells for. > > Why give a child a toy telephone anyway? Wouldn't it be better to > give a child a broken, or cheap, real telephone along with a set of > screwdrivers and, if at least six or seven years sold, a soldering > iron as well? > > -- > Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 16 13:38:17 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <2BA91DBB.775987C0.0000EF7A@aol.com> References: <2BA91DBB.775987C0.0000EF7A@aol.com> Message-ID: >So, anyone else like to expose any other collecting and/or strange >behavior of their own? Well, as people have no doubt figured out, I also collect paper based Role Playing Games. When I'm not working or spending time with my wife and son, the odds are I'm either playing with computers or working on a RPG related project. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Apr 16 13:33:53 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City References: Message-ID: <00d201c423e1$5ea80560$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I'll start warming up the Van and attaching the trailer to it :> Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "McFadden, Mike" To: Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 10:51 AM Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City > I just got word from a friend that a company in Kansas City is planning > to dispose of the following. > > DEC VAX 785 in three 6' cabinets > DEC PDP 11/70 in ten 6' cabinets, this may be two computers > 4 RM03 disk drives > 2 TU80 tape drives > Other disks for VAX > That is what they remembered without actually having a list. > > I'm trying to set up a time to actually see them. > > Here is the other information I have received. > > There is a company from Topeka that will take them away if they are paid > to remove them. > > The 785 was running 3 months ago when they erased all of the media. > It has been about a year since the 11/70's were on. > > They are not currently running. > > They are checking on the legal requirements that they may have to go > through to dispose of these units. > They are worried about making sure they aren't legally libel if somebody > dumps them improperly. > > Whoever takes them away may have to be a GE approved vender. > > I'll keep everybody informed. > > Thanks > Mike > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From bill at timeguy.com Fri Apr 16 13:49:13 2004 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Things to do in Detroit ~April 24-25? Message-ID: <20040416134824.J61490@outpost.timeguy.com> Hey gang. My mate and I are going to be in Detroit over the weekend of April 24-25 and I was wondering if any of you know of any technological (or just interesting) events or locations we should visit while we're there. We have some flexibility in arriving a few days early and/or staying a few days late, so anywhere around that weekend would be fine. From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Fri Apr 16 14:29:03 2004 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: References: <2BA91DBB.775987C0.0000EF7A@aol.com> Message-ID: <408033FF.7060401@sbcglobal.net> Zane H. Healy wrote: >> So, anyone else like to expose any other collecting and/or strange >> behavior of their own? > > > Well, as people have no doubt figured out, I also collect paper based > Role Playing Games. When I'm not working or spending time with my wife > and son, the odds are I'm either playing with computers or working on a > RPG related project. > > Zane > Paper based RPGs? Ever hear of Gamma World? Post-nuclear radiation infested land, based around Pittsburgh. I haven't played that since, oh, 1987 or so... I think I may even still have it around somewhere. -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Apr 16 14:10:26 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: FS/FT: MTI Stingray SCSI - HSC for CI VAX Cluster In-Reply-To: <16512.3339.100000.846980@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <20040416132410.GA14881@hoss.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <16512.3339.100000.846980@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040416211026.423b62de.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:42:51 -0400 Paul Koning wrote: > What cables do you need? CI cables? At least one set of four CI cables [1][2], the "mini-Centronics" SCSI cables to connect the drive canisters to each other and the HSC and last but not least a Starcoupler. (I have somthing in the back of my head that CI interfaces get damaged when they are connected together without Starcoupler.) [1] I have one set of four short, thin CI cables that I want to keep. [2] For testing it should be sufficient to connect only the "A" path? -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From spectre at floodgap.com Fri Apr 16 15:32:17 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at "Apr 16, 4 11:38:17 am" Message-ID: <200404162032.NAA11620@floodgap.com> > So, anyone else like to expose any other collecting and/or strange > behavior of their own? I'm a rare coins collector, myself. One recurring, but still backburnered, project of mine is to scan them all in and make a currency museum. And, to the Europeans on this list, may I say that the euro is a thoroughly dull currency. It really took all the fun out of collecting European coins and bills. :( -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- MOVIE IDEA: Ferris Bueller's E-mail Signature ------------------------------ From patrick at VintageComputerMarketplace.com Fri Apr 16 15:28:25 2004 From: patrick at VintageComputerMarketplace.com (Patrick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <200404162032.NAA11620@floodgap.com> Message-ID: > > So, anyone else like to expose any other collecting and/or strange > > behavior of their own? I brew beer. Started in '85, decided to take a break after the '94 National Homebrew Competition and ended up slacking until just last year, when I "rediscovered" the joy. My hobby of *drinking* (good) beer has continued without pause, however. --Patrick From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Apr 16 15:29:59 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? References: <200404162032.NAA11620@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <002c01c423f1$96efb980$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Well, let's see.... I also collect boxes, to hold smaller parts of computers in my computer collection. I also collect bookshelfs, to hold the documentation for items in my computer collection. I also collect old emails, of contacts who may have items I'm interested in for my computer collection. I also collect older electronic test equipment, so I can work on systems in my computer collection. I also collect recent vintage United States banknotes, so that I can pay for items to go in my computer collection. I also collect bungee cords and rope, to tie new items I get to the trailer bed to get them moved into my collection. :) --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Fri Apr 16 15:32:09 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <200404162032.NAA11620@floodgap.com> References: <200404162032.NAA11620@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <408042C9.6080702@ntlworld.com> Cameron Kaiser wrote: >>So, anyone else like to expose any other collecting and/or strange >>behavior of their own? >> >> > >I'm a rare coins collector, myself. One recurring, but still backburnered, >project of mine is to scan them all in and make a currency museum. > >And, to the Europeans on this list, may I say that the euro is a thoroughly >dull currency. It really took all the fun out of collecting European coins >and bills. :( > > > Well it either makes it easier or harder depending on the way you look at it. Dan From spectre at floodgap.com Fri Apr 16 15:47:42 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <002c01c423f1$96efb980$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from Jay West at "Apr 16, 4 03:29:59 pm" Message-ID: <200404162047.NAA34000@floodgap.com> > I also collect recent vintage United States banknotes So do I. I have this bad habit of trading them away, though. ^^ -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I'm still right. ------- From spectre at floodgap.com Fri Apr 16 15:52:00 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <408042C9.6080702@ntlworld.com> from Dan Williams at "Apr 16, 4 09:32:09 pm" Message-ID: <200404162052.NAA34932@floodgap.com> > > And, to the Europeans on this list, may I say that the euro is a thoroughly > > dull currency. It really took all the fun out of collecting European coins > > and bills. :( > Well it either makes it easier or harder depending on the way you look > at it. Not really easier in the sense that each country has their own designs for the backings of the euro coins, although surprisingly a large number of exchange shops offer full sets of various countries' euro coins in collector's boxes, which make "mint" sets easy to obtain. When I was in Venice last year, I picked up several of these. However, the coins themselves are all (naturally) interchangeable and aside from the backings are exactly the same. Some countries (sorry, Finns, I think the Finland euro set was the worst here :P ) had exceptionally boring coin backings, to boot. At least the old regional/country-specific currencies had some character in that the designs, sizes and denominations differed notably and sometimes very widely. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- "I think you underestimate the sneakiness." -------------------------------- From torquil at chemist.com Fri Apr 16 15:47:23 2004 From: torquil at chemist.com (Torquil MacCorkle, III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? References: <2BA91DBB.775987C0.0000EF7A@aol.com> Message-ID: <04f901c423f4$80026710$0500a8c0@floyd> > So, anyone else like to expose any other collecting and/or strange behavior of their own? Ah, the kicker too . . . have their ever been a > microcomputer controlled cooking toy? Could their be? Hmmmmm . . . Over the past few years I have been collecting fossils on and off, mainly sharks teeth. I also collect fossilized tree sap (particularly with ancient bugs in it, I have amassed quite a collection) Recently, I have started another hobby, telescope design and construction. This is an amazingly rewarding hobby, with an online community which rivals the vintage computer ones we all know and love. I am trying not to become a 'collector' or telescopes in general, I am just trying to build ones of high quality (and hopefully one day open a 'custom telescope' shop for hobbiest types who want the best available) (getting paid to do something you'd do anyway is always a big plus. ;)) -------- Thanks, Torquil MacCorkle, III Lexington, Virginia From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Fri Apr 16 15:54:43 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Contact Ethan Dicks References: <407C5113.64EFD189@compsys.to> <20040414001517.GA6460@bos7.spole.gov> <407F4A6D.CE87A3A0@compsys.to> <20040416043201.GA27245@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <40804813.9323AC32@compsys.to> >Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > On Tue, Apr 13, 2004 at 04:44:03PM -0400, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > > > Hi Ethan, > > > > I have tried to send you a private e-mail, but it is rejected? > > > What address? Attachments? > > > Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov > That should work just fine. Jerome Fine replies: If so, did you receive the private e-mail? I sent it again. > > Jerome Fine replies: > > I used , the "From" address > > in your e-mails. This time I also included the 3rd option. > I noticed in the header for this one that you misspelled "dickset"... Yes! I noticed that after you told me. I guess I was having another senior moment. It is very satisfying now to be able to blame all my typos. Anyone else here a legal senior? That means 65 years old, not just a member of AARP!!! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From mtapley at swri.edu Fri Apr 16 16:10:44 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <200404162052.NAA34932@floodgap.com> References: <200404162052.NAA34932@floodgap.com> Message-ID: Well, I was pretty sure my hobbies would be pre-covered by other respondents. With some minor exceptions they were.... Model Rockets, anyone? The occasional bicycle tour? Mostly taking care of the house and family, though. -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 16 16:16:51 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <27743585.1082140402383.JavaMail.root@ernie.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Apr 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > It seems like the guys that have all the good stuff already just keep > getting more while the latecomers sit here with the simulator running > the old stuff on a PC via Telnet. > > No, I'm not whining..... :-) Ashley, Quit whining :) If you're tenacious enough you'll eventually find what you want. You just have to turn over every stone and look into every dumpster. Do that enough and the Vintage Computer Gawds will smile upon thee one day. Read: http://www.vintage.org/content.php?id=001 -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 16 16:20:33 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <408033FF.7060401@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Apr 2004, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Paper based RPGs? Ever hear of Gamma World? Post-nuclear radiation > infested land, based around Pittsburgh. I haven't played that since, oh, > 1987 or so... I think I may even still have it around somewhere. Is that the one where your character could be a plant (plant-based lifeform mutated from nuclear radiation), an animal (same deal), a big-assed human (genetically engineered to be extrasize), etc.? I think I played that for a couple sessions with some nerd associates back in highschool. I wish I could've played more but our group was rather dysfunctional. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From coredump at gifford.co.uk Fri Apr 16 16:38:12 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <2BA91DBB.775987C0.0000EF7A@aol.com> References: <2BA91DBB.775987C0.0000EF7A@aol.com> Message-ID: <40805244.9090004@gifford.co.uk> MTPro@aol.com wrote: > So, anyone else like to expose any other collecting Well, I have the usual (!) collection of old electronic test gear, plus phones, audio and video gear: http://www.gifford.co.uk/~coredump/oldsad.htm But now I may even be moving into completely new territory for me, with the realisation that I've started a collection of Suzuki K-class cars: http://www.score.org.uk/ for the Cappuccino and: http://www.suzuki-sc100.demon.co.uk/ for the SC100. I'm currently being talked into restoring the SC100. > and/or strange behavior of their own? Oh, I've got lots of strange behaviour... :-) -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Apr 16 17:20:53 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: For the true mainframe collector Message-ID: http://www.universaldentalco.com/teethpage/webteethpics(full)/univac%20poly.jpg William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 16 17:22:05 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: PC boards and software In-Reply-To: <200404161414.i3GEESm17182@mwave.heeltoe.com> from "Brad Parker" at Apr 16, 4 10:14:28 am Message-ID: > to be honest, these days, I think using an outside service for a 2 layer > board is *much* easier and no more expensive (when you add up > everything). It's also a lot slower (you can etch and drill a PCB in an afternoon -- I've done it, whereas it'll take about a week for the PCB to be sent back to you by post (at least if your snail-mail is anything like ours). When you're prototyping, modifying, trying things as you go, it rapidly becomes impossible if you have to wait a week for every new version of the PCB! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 16 17:24:36 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: ra90 - actuator pin sticking? In-Reply-To: <200404161441.i3GEfAK17465@mwave.heeltoe.com> from "Brad Parker" at Apr 16, 4 10:41:10 am Message-ID: > > > I should probably search the archive, but has anyone experience with RA90's? > > I got one recently and when I powered it up (after a thorough cleaning) > it faulted with E9. > > I have (thankfully) several manuals for this device and it seems to > indicate the solenoid which "pulls the pin" on what looks like the voice > coil head motion thing may be sticking. "head motion thing" - that's a Have you checked to see if the solenoid winding is continuous? Have you checked what voltage/current it's getting? Solenoids take a lot more current to pull-in than to hold. A lot of the time, a higher voltage is applied initially to get them to pull in, then a lower voltage is switched in to hold the core. This reduces power consumption/dissipation. If this arrangement fails, it can appear to be mechanical sticking, in that if the core is moved by hand it will hold in. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 16 17:28:28 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <40801114.9040906@jetnet.ab.ca> from "ben franchuk" at Apr 16, 4 11:00:04 am Message-ID: > > MTPro@aol.com wrote: > > Toys ... I have a fair collection of educational electronic/mechancial kits. Many of them I got when I was younger and kept, but I've bougth a few more recently. Some of the projects really are ingenious! And some of them are much more than toys, they're still useful for hacking... Other things that _I_ collect include electronic test equipment (needed, of course, to fix my classic computers) and real, mechanical cameras. I don't believe electronics has any place in photography, give me a mechanically-timed shutter that I can understnad, and silver-based film! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 16 17:31:32 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <20040416173638.GF11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Apr 16, 4 01:36:38 pm Message-ID: > Why give a child a toy telephone anyway? Wouldn't it be better to > give a child a broken, or cheap, real telephone along with a set of Or give him _2_ telephones, a suitable impedance (the primary of a small mains transformer) and 2 or 3 9V batteries... It's not hard to work out how to link them up :-). Oh, and try to find a copy of 'Telephony' :-) Seirously, I learnt by taking real things apart and reading the books, I don't see why children today whould be denied the chance to learn too... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 16 17:34:55 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <002c01c423f1$96efb980$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at Apr 16, 4 03:29:59 pm Message-ID: > I also collect bookshelfs, to hold the documentation for items in my > computer collection. These are not essential. I just pile up the manuals on the floor. In a couple of places I'e got piles that go floor-to-ceiling! > I also collect older electronic test equipment, so I can work on systems in > my computer collection. And so you can fix other items of test equipment :-). You need _2_ 'scopes so you can use one to fix the other when it malfunctions... -tony From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Apr 16 18:30:30 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? Message-ID: <200404162330.QAA06327@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Other collections: 1. Pinball machines ( takes a lot of space ). 2. Old battery radios.( middle to early 20's ) 3. Interesting mechanical things ( like a coffee cup Stirling engine ). 4. Telescopes 5. Like others, boxes and boxes of data books and manuals. 6. Empty soda and beer cans that I intend to get recycle redemption for. Dwight From donm at cts.com Fri Apr 16 18:50:02 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Vector Graphic Model SD-5031, aka Vector MT Message-ID: I have the Vector Graphic machine listed in the subject line. It is a tan S-100 box with black panel, and a tan monitor that carries a logo plate that says "VECTOR MT". This Vector is equipped with a hard drive and a single DSDD 100tpi floppy disk drive. The hard drive controller (ST-506 interface) and the floppy drive controller (16 hard sector) are contained in the same S-100 card. The card etch dates it as 1980, and a silk screened note says it is a "FD & HD Controller". Despite considerable time spent with google and other search engines, I have been unable to locate any information of value about this machine. I have been using it quite successfully for some time. However, very recently, access to the floppy has become most erratic and the usual result is the error message "DRIVE NOT READY". However, on occasion it is possible to read the directory and read some of the files on an installed disk. I suspect that the cause of the problems are with the controller card, but without documentation I hardly know where to start any troubleshooting. So, to the point of all of this! If anyone has any documentation on this machine that they would be willing to share with me, please contact me either privately or publically. It will be highly appreciated!!! - don From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 16 19:29:46 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Apr 16, 2004 11:28:28 PM Message-ID: <200404170029.i3H0TkoY000475@onyx.spiritone.com> > of course, to fix my classic computers) and real, mechanical cameras. I > don't believe electronics has any place in photography, give me a > mechanically-timed shutter that I can understnad, and silver-based film! > > -tony > 2D or 3D Photography? :^) Zane From sastevens at earthlink.net Fri Apr 16 20:09:00 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <200404162047.NAA34000@floodgap.com> References: <002c01c423f1$96efb980$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <200404162047.NAA34000@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <20040416200900.67e0c4c9.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:47:42 -0700 (PDT) Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > I also collect recent vintage United States banknotes > > So do I. I have this bad habit of trading them away, though. ^^ > I got a 1934 $10 bill in change last week. I collect foreign coins, older ones preferred, and only (for the most part) in copper. You can get a 17th century British farthing for under $5 most times. I love the history more than the 'value' of the pieces. Same as I do with old computers. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Apr 16 20:22:06 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? Message-ID: <200404170122.SAA06406@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Scott Stevens" > >On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:47:42 -0700 (PDT) >Cameron Kaiser wrote: > >> > I also collect recent vintage United States banknotes >> >> So do I. I have this bad habit of trading them away, though. ^^ >> > >I got a 1934 $10 bill in change last week. I collect foreign coins, older ones preferred, and only (for the most part) in copper. You can get a 17th century British farthing for under $5 most times. I love the history more than the 'value' of the pieces. Same as I do with old computers. > > Hi I'd like to collect gold coins when I find them. I've not found any yet but I always keep an eye out for them. ;) I have found some gold, panning, but not enough to do anything with. Dwight From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri Apr 16 20:33:03 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <408033FF.7060401@sbcglobal.net> References: <2BA91DBB.775987C0.0000EF7A@aol.com> <408033FF.7060401@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <20040417013303.GC14132@bos7.spole.gov> On Fri, Apr 16, 2004 at 03:29:03PM -0400, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Paper based RPGs? Ever hear of Gamma World? Post-nuclear radiation > infested land, based around Pittsburgh. I haven't played that since, oh, > 1987 or so... I think I may even still have it around somewhere. I used to play that in about the same timeframe. I still have all of my old RPG books, including G-W. They went through several major rule changes; I think I have two of them. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 17-Apr-2004 01:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -72.2 F (-57.9 C) Windchill -103.8 F (-75.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 7.5 kts Grid 064 Barometer 682.4 mb (10536 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Apr 16 20:53:37 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Write protect tags Message-ID: <200404170153.SAA06422@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I just saw something interesting on ebay. Now for years, I've been carefully placing the tags on the disk nice and square. I even pre-bend them so that there is little or no force pulling them off the surface. Still, one or another will eventually snag on one of the corners and lift up. Well, I just saw a disk with the tag mounted such that it was diagonally mounted( looks like a little triangle from each side ). There are no parallel edges to catch on things as one slides the disk in and out. The sharp corners that might catch are on the edge of the disk and unlikely to cause the tag to lift. Has anyone else tried this? What do you think? Dwight From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 16 20:47:05 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: References: <200404162052.NAA34932@floodgap.com> <200404162052.NAA34932@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040416214705.008f9ea0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:10 PM 4/16/04 -0500, Mark wrote: >Well, > I was pretty sure my hobbies would be pre-covered by other >respondents. With some minor exceptions they were.... > > Model Rockets, anyone? I used to when I was a kid but I grew up. However that hobby grew up too and now I have some REAL interesting items. Sorry but I'm not going to list them here for reasons that should be obvious. > The occasional bicycle tour? Not on your life! That's what I bought a car for! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 16 20:49:41 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: For the true mainframe collector In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040416214941.008867d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Wow. A collection that I can keep in my mouth! Now I can get rid of all those storage places :-) Joe At 06:20 PM 4/16/04 -0400, you wrote: >http://www.universaldentalco.com/teethpage/webteethpics(full)/univac%20poly .jpg > >William Donzelli >aw288@osfn.org > > From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Apr 16 21:03:56 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <20040417013303.GC14132@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: > I used to play that in about the same timeframe. I still have all of my > old RPG books, including G-W. They went through several major rule changes; > I think I have two of them. I had Gamma World as well, but we thought it sucked. Shortly thereafter, I got away from the whole gaming thing, as it just started getting silly (i.e. Dungeons and Dragons characters became boring after just a few levels). Anyway, in addition to big computers, I collect: 1) Military Radios, specifically from the interwar period. 2) Navy transmitters, from 1945 and before. 3) Military Radars, tube based. 4) Military Sonars, tube based. 5) Tubes, all kinds. 6) Gyrocompass equipment. and any day now, I wll loose control and start collecting: A) Broadcast transmitters, from the 1920s and 30s. B) Classic General Radio test equipment. C) Railroad signalling junk. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From allain at panix.com Fri Apr 16 21:17:14 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Write protect tags References: <200404170153.SAA06422@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <0a2001c42422$19d08340$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > ( looks like a little triangle from each side ). You've mentioned the pro-'s. For a con, there's the fact the the length of the bent edge is 40% greater, meaning that residual restoration force (to unbend) will be greater. John A. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 16 21:23:57 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <20040417013303.GC14132@bos7.spole.gov> from "Ethan Dicks" at Apr 17, 2004 01:33:03 AM Message-ID: <200404170223.i3H2NvNd002315@onyx.spiritone.com> > On Fri, Apr 16, 2004 at 03:29:03PM -0400, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > Paper based RPGs? Ever hear of Gamma World? Post-nuclear radiation > > infested land, based around Pittsburgh. I haven't played that since, oh, > > 1987 or so... I think I may even still have it around somewhere. > > I used to play that in about the same timeframe. I still have all of my > old RPG books, including G-W. They went through several major rule changes; > I think I have two of them. > > -ethan Be afraid, someone just released a D20 version. http://www.swordsorcery.com/gammaworld/ I've not looked at it, but did see a copy recently in a store. Zane From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Apr 16 21:29:56 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:52 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? References: <200404162052.NAA34932@floodgap.com><200404162052.NAA34932@floodgap.com> <3.0.6.32.20040416214705.008f9ea0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000b01c42423$e0114520$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > > Model Rockets, anyone? That used to be a HUGE hobby of mine. Haven't done anything with it in years. I want SO bad to get back into it, and design heavier rockets than balsa and cardboard. Need a better propellant though - love to try LOX. But that's not the the real goal that makes me want to get back into it. I want to program microcontrollers to launch inside of it and regulate movable control surfaces. I want to paint a huge target on the ground (grass), and the competition would be to see how close you could get the rocket to target (and hit) the bullseye. Twould be fun stuff. Jay From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Apr 16 21:32:52 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: Write protect tags Message-ID: <200404170232.TAA06442@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "John Allain" > >> ( looks like a little triangle from each side ). > >You've mentioned the pro-'s. For a con, there's the fact the the >length of the bent edge is 40% greater, meaning that residual >restoration force (to unbend) will be greater. > >John A. Hi John An issue for the plastic tags but not for the aluminum ones. I always prefold the plastic ones with good success. It is still a pain. Dwight From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Apr 16 21:40:00 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? Message-ID: <200404170240.TAA06448@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jay West" > >> > Model Rockets, anyone? >That used to be a HUGE hobby of mine. Haven't done anything with it in >years. I want SO bad to get back into it, and design heavier rockets than >balsa and cardboard. Need a better propellant though - love to try LOX. But >that's not the the real goal that makes me want to get back into it. I want >to program microcontrollers to launch inside of it and regulate movable >control surfaces. I want to paint a huge target on the ground (grass), and >the competition would be to see how close you could get the rocket to target >(and hit) the bullseye. Twould be fun stuff. > >Jay > Hi I used to make saltpeter and sugar rockets when I was a kid. To bad one can't get saltpeter anymore without signing your life away. I used to have about a 75% successful launch rate. The others would tend to clog the nozzle and blow up on the pad. I even made a two stage that the second stage went out of sight. A couple minutes later, I saw the smoke trail and recovered the top stage. All great fun. Dwight From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 16 21:41:59 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Apr 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > I used to play that in about the same timeframe. I still have all of my > > old RPG books, including G-W. They went through several major rule changes; > > I think I have two of them. > > I had Gamma World as well, but we thought it sucked. Shortly thereafter, I > got away from the whole gaming thing, as it just started getting silly > (i.e. Dungeons and Dragons characters became boring after just a few > levels). To get totally off-topic in a wholly geek way, I think it really depended on the imagination of the DM or GM to make the world fun and interesting. I always had this fantasy of putting together a real-life D&D where you'd have a big cave filled with all sorts of people playing scary creatures or something. There was a TV movie in the 80s that featured a theme like this where a group of kids went into a cavern to play D&D but then the fantasy turned real and they were being chased by some evil creature of some sort. I can't remember if my idea came before or after that. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Apr 16 21:53:15 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > To get totally off-topic in a wholly geek way, I think it really depended > on the imagination of the DM or GM to make the world fun and interesting. Yes, but we were playing with the old rules (the original three hardcover set), and the combat just gets completely unrealistic. A bunch of orcs fire a 500 pound rock from a catapult and hit our hero in the face, but because he has 130 hp and plate armor, he just laughs it off with a bloody nose. We adandoned D&D, but I think they massively revised the rules to correct this. Later we played a smaller game called Melee (with an attachment called Wizard), and it was really well done. Not as complex, but a few ideas could be stolen from D&D. > I always had this fantasy of putting together a real-life D&D where you'd > have a big cave filled with all sorts of people playing scary creatures > or something. There was a TV movie in the 80s that featured a theme like > this where a group of kids went into a cavern to play D&D but then the > fantasy turned real and they were being chased by some evil creature of > some sort. I can't remember if my idea came before or after that. I remember that movie, and it was pretty bad. I think one of the kids turned into a nutter at the end. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri Apr 16 22:01:54 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <008701c423d1$4beee160$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <008701c423d1$4beee160$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200404162201.54768.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Friday 16 April 2004 11:38, Jay West wrote: > I might be able to take this one on... maybe... keep me posted! > > Jay I haven't heard back from you on those HP 2xxx boards yet; I really need to get them out of my apartment soon. Pat > > I just got word from a friend that a company in Kansas City is > > planning to dispose of the following. > > > > DEC VAX 785 in three 6' cabinets > > DEC PDP 11/70 in ten 6' cabinets, this may be two computers > > 4 RM03 disk drives > > 2 TU80 tape drives > > Other disks for VAX > > That is what they remembered without actually having a list. > > > > I'm trying to set up a time to actually see them. > > > > Here is the other information I have received. > > > > There is a company from Topeka that will take them away if they are > > paid to remove them. > > > > The 785 was running 3 months ago when they erased all of the media. > > It has been about a year since the 11/70's were on. > > > > They are not currently running. > > > > They are checking on the legal requirements that they may have to > > go through to dispose of these units. > > They are worried about making sure they aren't legally libel if > > somebody dumps them improperly. > > > > Whoever takes them away may have to be a GE approved vender. > > > > I'll keep everybody informed. > > > > Thanks > > Mike > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri Apr 16 22:03:50 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <200404162201.54768.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <008701c423d1$4beee160$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <200404162201.54768.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <200404162203.50221.pat@computer-refuge.org> Crap, that was supposed to be private; sorry guys. Seems to fit my day so far... Pat On Friday 16 April 2004 22:01, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Friday 16 April 2004 11:38, Jay West wrote: > > I might be able to take this one on... maybe... keep me posted! > > > > Jay > > I haven't heard back from you on those HP 2xxx boards yet; I really > need to get them out of my apartment soon. > > Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 16 22:08:57 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Apr 16, 2004 10:53:15 PM Message-ID: <200404170308.i3H38vlv002787@onyx.spiritone.com> > Yes, but we were playing with the old rules (the original three hardcover > set), and the combat just gets completely unrealistic. A bunch of orcs > fire a 500 pound rock from a catapult and hit our hero in the face, but > because he has 130 hp and plate armor, he just laughs it off with a > bloody nose. > > We adandoned D&D, but I think they massively revised the rules to correct > this. Later we played a smaller game called Melee (with an attachment > called Wizard), and it was really well done. Not as complex, but a few > ideas could be stolen from D&D. I'm guessing you're talking about the original AD&D rules. I'm personally not convinced that the D20 rules (3rd Edition or the newer 3.5) are much more realistic. I am convinced they're WAY to complex (though there ones that make D20 look simple). I tend to run games with little or no rules (except for character generation). Right now I'm running a Call of Cthulhu game using the 5.6 rules (aka BRP aka Basic Role Playing), and I *REALLY* like the system, it is lean to the point of leaving a couple important things out, and more importantly it's simple enough that it doesn't matter if you have to wait three months between game sessions. As for the standard Character Invulnrabilty problem, not in BRP, one good hit can kill you. It's the only system where I've had to fudge rolls to keep from killing a character. Zane From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Apr 16 22:16:55 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: COSMAC on eBay Message-ID: In a 'military' type case - $0.99 starting bid! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=4125028843&rd=1 Cheerz John From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 16 22:21:27 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: TI Bubble Memory? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040416232127.008a46d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Today I found a couple of multibus cards made by TI. One of them is marked TM990/210. In addition to a TI TMS9916NL LSIC, it has six large yellow "blocks" on it that I THINK may be bubble memories. They're about 1 1/4" square and about 7/16" thick and are marked "TIB 0203S, 23May80 -1, MSK=627573, 8B, 958-S-40, 24-164-11". They're in flattened out metal cylinders with a black epoxy looking material in the center. There are seven leads coming out of each end and there is what looks like a small plastic transistor clipped to the side of the package. It looks like a transistor but only has two leads so I'm guessing that it's probably a temperatrure sensor. Does anyone know if these are bubble memories? I've had TI bubble memories before but they didn't look anything like this. Anyone know what these cards are? the second one is marked TM990/310. It has three TI TMS9901s on it along with many SSI ICs. Joe From anheier at owt.com Fri Apr 16 22:11:46 2004 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm and Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: FS: ISA boards Message-ID: I have two interesting ISA boards available. The first is a hewlett-packard HPIB card and the second is a single board computer with an Intel DX2-66. I presume these are in working order,but can not verify. $10 each + shipping. Thanks Norm From ken at seefried.com Fri Apr 16 22:32:48 2004 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: IDT 7RS385 Eval Board Manual Message-ID: <20040417033248.14472.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Does anyone have the hardware manual for an IDT 7RS385 MIPS 3052E (79R3052E) Evaluation Board? I'd *really* appreciate a copy... Ken From dan at ekoan.com Fri Apr 16 22:36:00 2004 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: TI Bubble Memory? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040416232127.008a46d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040416232127.008a46d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040416232731.052ad9f0@enigma> Joe, At 11:21 PM 4/16/04, you wrote: >They're about 1 >1/4" square and about 7/16" thick and are marked "TIB 0203S, 23May80 -1, >MSK=627573, 8B, 958-S-40, 24-164-11". 23 May 80 is the date of final test. 62, 75, and 73 are the hexadecimal addresses of defective minor loops. >Does anyone know if these are bubble memories? Yep, they are. Just last weekend I picked up a TI publication regarding the TIB0203. I transcribed some of it to www.decodesystems.com/tib0203.html From that same manual: "The TIB0203 is mounted on a 14-pin dual-in-line lead frame and encapsulated in an electrically nonconductive plastic compound. Included in the package are the two coils that provide the rotating magnetic field and a permanent magnet. The package is surrounded by a magnet shield to protect it from external magnetic fields. The package is intended for insertion in mounting hole rows on 1.200-inch (30.48-mm) centers. Tin-plated leads require no additional cleaning or processing when used in soldered assembly. The package weighs approximately 25 grams." Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From sastevens at earthlink.net Fri Apr 16 22:43:01 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: References: <20040417013303.GC14132@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <20040416224301.74f34121.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:03:56 -0400 (EDT) William Donzelli wrote: > B) Classic General Radio test equipment. I've admired the quality of a lot of the older General Radio equipment. I have a General Radio 1650 LCR Bridge, and a few other pieces of their equipment. They produced gear where they made no compromises in quality. You open up the chassis on old G-R gear and you see the physics all laid out the way a scientist would do it. Not like the 'quality engineered out by the MBA cost-cutters' junk produced at instrument vendors today. I, too am fascinated and collect high-end test equipment. A number of years back it seemed like all the calibration labs were jettisoning all their time-honored highest quality items, i.e. Hardwood enclosed Standard Cell ovens, ultra-precision bridges and references. A friend of mine has a huge quantity of that sort of stuff, and I have built up a large collection of my own 'standards' in the form of stable well-characterized inductors, capacitors, and resistors. There don't seem to be many 'Metrology equipment collectors' but I do know of a few people maintaining and tracking frequency standards, keeping the old reistance and voltage standards, etc. These days everything seems to be 'autocal' with calibration based on settings stored in a lithium-battery backed up RAM. My G-R 1650 bridge, ten or more years 'out of calibration,' checks as exactly in calibration when I check it with components measured on 'in cal' digital equipment. A half century from now it'll still be accurate, since it's calibration is based on a physical adjustment. All the new 'digital' stuff will have dead batteries and be worthless, unless some 'credentialed' laboratory pushes a few buttons and puts another $150 sticker on it saying it's 'good' for another two years. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 16 22:43:36 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <000b01c42423$e0114520$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <200404162052.NAA34932@floodgap.com> <200404162052.NAA34932@floodgap.com> <3.0.6.32.20040416214705.008f9ea0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040416234336.0085d100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:29 PM 4/16/04 -0500, Jay wrote: >> > Model Rockets, anyone? >That used to be a HUGE hobby of mine. Haven't done anything with it in >years. I want SO bad to get back into it, and design heavier rockets than >balsa and cardboard. Need a better propellant though - love to try LOX. Oh hell! Go for the really fun stuff, Nitric Acid and Alcohol!!! I built one of those in high school. Zinc Dust and Sulfur is lots of fun too! That's what I used in the first stage of that one and in MANY single stage rockets. BTW I still have about 1200 lbs of zinc dust that needs a project :-) But >that's not the the real goal that makes me want to get back into it. I want >to program microcontrollers to launch inside of it and regulate movable >control surfaces. I want to paint a huge target on the ground (grass), and >the competition would be to see how close you could get the rocket to target >(and hit) the bullseye. I can help you there! I still have certain "usefull" items from a previous life; including some initerial platforms, thermal batteries and Electro-Optical proximity fuzes and more. It all sounds like fun but I think that the BAT Fags would call it a destructive device! >.Twould be fun stuff. It was. It was lots more interesting than large area weapons such as Pershing II. BTW are you aware of Tripoli?? It's an organization for owners of high powered large model rockets using OTS compostite propellant motors. Joe > >> > > From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Apr 16 22:53:40 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: DIY Saltpeter (was: Other collecting activities?) In-Reply-To: <200404170240.TAA06448@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200404170240.TAA06448@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20040417035340.GG11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Dwight K. Elvey, from writings of Fri, Apr 16, 2004 at 07:40:00PM -0700: > Hi > I used to make saltpeter and sugar rockets when I was a kid. > To bad one can't get saltpeter anymore without signing your life away. Hay, why not just make your own, using easily obtainable materials (e.g., horse manure, etc.)? :-) > I used to have about a 75% successful launch rate. The others > would tend to clog the nozzle and blow up on the pad. I even > made a two stage that the second stage went out of sight. A > couple minutes later, I saw the smoke trail and recovered the > top stage. All great fun. Years ago, as a teenager, I played with model rockets as well. Back then, however, one could just walk into any reasonably well stocked hobby shop and purchase the necessary supplies. When talking with someone this past summer, while purchasing some fireworks, I learned that one now has to go through a lot of bureaucratic foolishness to obtain (or legally use?) the model rocket engines. Seems to me that one should be able to launch whatever one wants to in the air over one's own property... if it knocks down a noisy trespassing airplaine, helicopter, etc., well, oops... the airline, government agency, etc., being a noisy nuisance anyway, should have asked permission to fly over one's property first. If the overpaid dorks who live in the White House, in the District of Cluelessness, USA, can have control over what flies over where they live, so should the citizens! -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From sastevens at earthlink.net Fri Apr 16 22:54:55 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: TI Bubble Memory? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040416232127.008a46d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040416232127.008a46d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040416225455.2465bd4d.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 23:21:27 -0400 "Joe R." wrote: > Today I found a couple of multibus cards made by TI. One of them is > marked TM990/210. In addition to a TI TMS9916NL LSIC, it has six large > yellow "blocks" on it that I THINK may be bubble memories. They're about 1 > 1/4" square and about 7/16" thick and are marked "TIB 0203S, 23May80 -1, > MSK=627573, 8B, 958-S-40, 24-164-11". They're in flattened out metal > cylinders with a black epoxy looking material in the center. There are > seven leads coming out of each end and there is what looks like a small > plastic transistor clipped to the side of the package. It looks like a > transistor but only has two leads so I'm guessing that it's probably a > temperatrure sensor. Does anyone know if these are bubble memories? I've > had TI bubble memories before but they didn't look anything like this. > Anyone know what these cards are? the second one is marked TM990/310. It > has three TI TMS9901s on it along with many SSI ICs. > I didn't know TI made bubble memory. Intel promoted it heavily for awhile. I have an Intel 'Bubble Memory Development Kit' which is a boxed kit with an ISA slot board for a PC with two modules on it that have a total of 4 megabits of bubble memory. Complete in the box with all docs. About a decade ago I plugged it into a 286 machine and verified that it does work with the Intel drivers supplied. You get a 512K bubble memory drive once the drivers are loaded. It was apparently intended as a 'evaluation kit' for developers to play around with to familiarize themselves with bubble memory. I got it at a surplus store, where it had been mis-marked as an '4 meg memory expansion board' back in the era after Windows 95 had come out when everybody was scrambling to cram more memory into their PC to try to make Windows 95 actually work. They tried to get 80 bucks for it for quite awhile in the glass case in front, then one day I found it back in the 'junk' bin and snapped it up for $5. > Joe From sastevens at earthlink.net Fri Apr 16 22:58:39 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: DIY Saltpeter (was: Other collecting activities?) In-Reply-To: <20040417035340.GG11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <200404170240.TAA06448@clulw009.amd.com> <20040417035340.GG11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20040416225839.38cea481.sastevens@earthlink.net> On 16 Apr 2004 23:53:40 -0400 "R. D. Davis" wrote: > Quothe Dwight K. Elvey, from writings of Fri, Apr 16, 2004 at 07:40:00PM -0700: > > Hi > > I used to make saltpeter and sugar rockets when I was a kid. > > To bad one can't get saltpeter anymore without signing your life away. > > Hay, why not just make your own, using easily obtainable materials > (e.g., horse manure, etc.)? :-) > Be careful now, you'll have the 'Homeland Security' folks shutting down all the horse stables and impounding manure. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 16 23:08:12 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040417000812.008c4b10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:29 PM 4/16/04 -0500, Jay wrote: >> > Model Rockets, anyone? >That used to be a HUGE hobby of mine. Haven't done anything with it in >years. I want SO bad to get back into it, and design heavier rockets than >balsa and cardboard. Need a better propellant though - love to try LOX. >that's not the the real goal that makes me want to get back into it. I want >to program microcontrollers to launch inside of it and regulate movable >control surfaces. I want to paint a huge target on the ground (grass), and >the competition would be to see how close you could get the rocket to target >(and hit) the bullseye. Hey Jay, Also thanks for Uncle Sam I have a large quantity of these . Do you want some to play with? Joe From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Apr 16 23:09:10 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: DIY Saltpeter (was: Other collecting activities?) In-Reply-To: <20040416225839.38cea481.sastevens@earthlink.net> References: <200404170240.TAA06448@clulw009.amd.com> <20040417035340.GG11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <20040416225839.38cea481.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Apr 2004, Scott Stevens wrote: > On 16 Apr 2004 23:53:40 -0400 > "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > > Quothe Dwight K. Elvey, from writings of Fri, Apr 16, 2004 at 07:40:00PM -0700: > > > Hi > > > I used to make saltpeter and sugar rockets when I was a kid. > > > To bad one can't get saltpeter anymore without signing your life away. > > > > Hay, why not just make your own, using easily obtainable materials > > (e.g., horse manure, etc.)? :-) > > > > Be careful now, you'll have the 'Homeland Security' folks shutting down all the horse stables and impounding manure. > > Heeeeeyyyy!!!! That's freakin' BRILLIANT!!! Tons and tons of HorseShit dumped in/around Herr Ash-Krofft and his unruly band of much-darker-than-red shirted thug^H^H^H^H NuPatryuts(tm). Of course, having neither Humor, nor Brains, I'm afraid the irony would be lost on them. Doesn't keep it from being a most wonderful idea; one that the Equine Husbandry folks might welcome as well... free mucking! O well, this is hideously off topic. Sue me... Cheers John From brianmahoney at look.ca Fri Apr 16 23:11:01 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? References: <2BA91DBB.775987C0.0000EF7A@aol.com> Message-ID: <001501c42432$10cf43c0$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> ----- Original Message ----- > So, anyone else like to expose any other collecting and/or strange behavior of their own? ... > Best, David Greelish, classiccomputing.com > You mean other than girlfriends, ex-wives and bad debts? Sure. California Raisins, hardcover sports books (a couple from the 40s about the Brooklyn Dodgers and the Yankees), old sports equipment and Mario/super Mario stuff. Besides computer hardware/software/manuals, I also collect books about computers. Here's a shot at another thread. My oldest is from 1962, The Thinking Machine by John Pfeiffer published by Popular Science Living Library Program (with jacket in near mint condition.) Shots of MIT's Lincoln Lab, Ascension Island antimissile defense system, etc. There was a TV show by the same name and the TXo computer would write scripts for Westerns, according to the book. Next oldest is 1965 , 'The Computer Age and Its Potential for Management' by Gilbert Burck and the Editors of Fortune. The one I have is the 7th printing, believe it or not and, again, has the original dust jacket and is in near-mint condition. I find these books fascinating since they are not manuals. They were meant to explain and introduce computers to the lay person. Pretty cool stuff, to me anyway. Lastly, I collect school textbooks about computers. Generally these are high school Computer Science kinds of texts, full of high-res pics of all the computers you guys talk about. Add to this the plain-English explanations of how the various pieces interacted and you can see how I got hooked. My background is motion picture technology and communication arts not computers. Who's got older books? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 16 23:18:59 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: TI Bubble Memory? In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040416232731.052ad9f0@enigma> References: <3.0.6.32.20040416232127.008a46d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040416232127.008a46d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040417001859.008c2d20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Thanks Dan. I used to have the same book but I'd never found any of that type bubble memory so I gave it to Erik when he visted this area. Isn't that the way it always goes? Joe At 11:36 PM 4/16/04 -0400, you wrote: >Joe, > >At 11:21 PM 4/16/04, you wrote: >>They're about 1 >>1/4" square and about 7/16" thick and are marked "TIB 0203S, 23May80 -1, >>MSK=627573, 8B, 958-S-40, 24-164-11". > >23 May 80 is the date of final test. >62, 75, and 73 are the hexadecimal addresses of defective minor loops. > >>Does anyone know if these are bubble memories? > >Yep, they are. Just last weekend I picked up a TI publication regarding >the TIB0203. I transcribed some of it to >www.decodesystems.com/tib0203.html > > From that same manual: "The TIB0203 is mounted on a 14-pin dual-in-line >lead frame and encapsulated in an electrically nonconductive plastic compound. >Included in the package are the two coils that provide the rotating magnetic >field and a permanent magnet. The package is surrounded by a magnet shield >to protect it from external magnetic fields. The package is intended for >insertion >in mounting hole rows on 1.200-inch (30.48-mm) centers. Tin-plated leads >require no additional cleaning or processing when used in soldered assembly. >The package weighs approximately 25 grams." > > >Cheers, > >Dan >www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 16 23:29:09 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: TI Bubble Memory? In-Reply-To: <20040416225455.2465bd4d.sastevens@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20040416232127.008a46d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040416232127.008a46d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040417002909.008c5350@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:54 PM 4/16/04 -0500, Scott wrote: >On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 23:21:27 -0400 >"Joe R." wrote: > >> Today I found a couple of multibus cards made by TI. One of them is >> marked TM990/210. In addition to a TI TMS9916NL LSIC, it has six large >> yellow "blocks" on it that I THINK may be bubble memories. They're about 1 >> 1/4" square and about 7/16" thick and are marked "TIB 0203S, 23May80 -1, >> MSK=627573, 8B, 958-S-40, 24-164-11". They're in flattened out metal >> cylinders with a black epoxy looking material in the center. There are >> seven leads coming out of each end and there is what looks like a small >> plastic transistor clipped to the side of the package. It looks like a >> transistor but only has two leads so I'm guessing that it's probably a >> temperatrure sensor. Does anyone know if these are bubble memories? I've >> had TI bubble memories before but they didn't look anything like this. >> Anyone know what these cards are? the second one is marked TM990/310. It >> has three TI TMS9901s on it along with many SSI ICs. >> > >I didn't know TI made bubble memory. Intel promoted it heavily for awhile. I have an Intel 'Bubble Memory Development Kit' which is a boxed kit with an ISA slot board for a PC with two modules on it that have a total of 4 megabits of bubble memory. Complete in the box with all docs. About a decade ago I plugged it into a 286 machine and verified that it does work with the Intel drivers supplied. You get a 512K bubble memory drive once the drivers are loaded. It was apparently intended as a 'evaluation kit' for developers to play around with to familiarize themselves with bubble memory. > >I got it at a surplus store, where it had been mis-marked as an '4 meg memory expansion board' back in the era after Windows 95 had come out when everybody was scrambling to cram more memory into their PC to try to make Windows 95 actually work. They tried to get 80 bucks for it for quite awhile in the glass case in front, then one day I found it back in the 'junk' bin and snapped it up for $5. I used to have one of those too but I'll be dogged if I can find it now. I turned the house up side down looking for it a couple of years ago. A friend of mine has about 5 or 6 of them but I doubt he could find his either. I used to find bubble memory in some of the scrap and surplus places but haven't seen any for several years. This is the first TI bubble memory that I've ever seen too. Now I just need to find some docs on this card and I can install it in one of my Multibus systems. I've been wanting to find or build a core memory system for one of them but this is just as cool. Joe Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 16 23:31:12 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: DIY Saltpeter (was: Other collecting activities?) In-Reply-To: <20040416225839.38cea481.sastevens@earthlink.net> References: <20040417035340.GG11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <200404170240.TAA06448@clulw009.amd.com> <20040417035340.GG11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040417003112.008c6a70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:58 PM 4/16/04 -0500, Scott wrote: >On 16 Apr 2004 23:53:40 -0400 >"R. D. Davis" wrote: > >> Quothe Dwight K. Elvey, from writings of Fri, Apr 16, 2004 at 07:40:00PM -0700: >> > Hi >> > I used to make saltpeter and sugar rockets when I was a kid. >> > To bad one can't get saltpeter anymore without signing your life away. >> >> Hay, why not just make your own, using easily obtainable materials >> (e.g., horse manure, etc.)? :-) >> > >Be careful now, you'll have the 'Homeland Security' folks shutting down all the horse stables and impounding manure. What? I thought they already were. Washington DC and every state capital, county office and city hall is FULL of it! :-) Joe From nico at farumdata.dk Fri Apr 16 23:33:15 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: For the true mainframe collector References: Message-ID: <001a01c42435$19ff60d0$2201a8c0@finans> From: "William Donzelli" To: Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 12:20 AM Subject: For the true mainframe collector > http://www.universaldentalco.com/teethpage/webteethpics(full)/univac%20poly.jpg > I dont think they can replace push buttons. Hm, maybe on my keyboard.... Nico --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release Date: 31-03-2004 From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Apr 16 23:30:25 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? References: <200404170240.TAA06448@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <4080B2E1.10401@jetnet.ab.ca> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi > I used to make saltpeter and sugar rockets when I was a kid. > To bad one can't get saltpeter anymore without signing your life away. > I used to have about a 75% successful launch rate. The others > would tend to clog the nozzle and blow up on the pad. I even > made a two stage that the second stage went out of sight. A > couple minutes later, I saw the smoke trail and recovered the > top stage. All great fun. > Dwight > Why not turn your rocket hobby into profit. The X-Prize has not been clamed yet. :) For the the NON rocket-scientist type here is the link. http://www.xprize.org/ Ben. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 16 23:45:24 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <2BA91DBB.775987C0.0000EF7A@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040417004524.008cdcb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> My collecting: 1. Old computers 2. Old test equipment to fix #1 3. Old electronics parts to fix #1 and 2 4. Old cars to look for #1, 2 and 3. 5. Old truck to haul #1, 2 and 3. 6. Old metal working equipment to make parts for #1 through 5. 7. Old house to store #1 through 6. 8. Old guns to protect #1 through 7. 9. Old missiles to protect #7. 10 Old money to pay for all of the above! Did I miss anything? Joe :-) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 16 23:43:05 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <200404170029.i3H0TkoY000475@onyx.spiritone.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at Apr 16, 4 05:29:46 pm Message-ID: > 2D or 3D Photography? :^) Mostly 2D, but I have no problem with sterao photography. Holography is rather impractical for general picture-taking though... -tony From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 16 23:50:16 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <4080B2E1.10401@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <200404170240.TAA06448@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040417005016.0087e100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:30 PM 4/16/04 -0600, you wrote: >Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >> Hi >> I used to make saltpeter and sugar rockets when I was a kid. >> To bad one can't get saltpeter anymore without signing your life away. >> I used to have about a 75% successful launch rate. The others >> would tend to clog the nozzle and blow up on the pad. That's what we used to refer as a bomb on a stick! I even >> made a two stage that the second stage went out of sight. A >> couple minutes later, I saw the smoke trail and recovered the >> top stage. All great fun. >> Dwight >> > > >Why not turn your rocket hobby into profit. The X-Prize has not been >clamed yet. :) Oh yeah. Lets see you convince the Feds that that's all you wanted all that saltpeter and sugar for! :-) Joe From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Apr 16 23:46:22 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: PC boards and software References: Message-ID: <4080B69E.2030803@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: > It's also a lot slower (you can etch and drill a PCB in an afternoon -- > I've done it, whereas it'll take about a week for the PCB to be sent back > to you by post (at least if your snail-mail is anything like ours). Good you can do all my PCB's for me. At one time you could do a decent layout at home, but now days with surface mount crap and tiny tiny traces I don't it is worth the risk. > When you're prototyping, modifying, trying things as you go, it rapidly > becomes impossible if you have to wait a week for every new version of > the PCB! That is why I use reams and reams of quad paper for my schematics. For prototyping ideas more quad paper. :) Ben. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 16 23:53:45 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <001501c42432$10cf43c0$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> from "Brian Mahoney" at Apr 17, 2004 12:11:01 AM Message-ID: <200404170453.i3H4rjeq004347@onyx.spiritone.com> > Besides computer hardware/software/manuals, I also collect books about > computers. Here's a shot at another thread. My oldest is from Personally I view all computer related books as part of the computer collection. > 1962, The Thinking Machine by John Pfeiffer published by Popular Science > Living Library Program (with jacket in near mint condition.) > Shots of MIT's Lincoln Lab, Ascension Island antimissile defense system, > etc. There was a TV show by the same name and the TXo computer would write > scripts for Westerns, according to the book. This brings up an interesting question, have there really been computers that could write scripts or books? I remember rumors in the mid-80's that some of the pulpish adventure books were written by a computer. Personally I find it hard to believe. > Who's got older books? I think my oldest DEC Book is either '65 or '67, and my oldest computer books are some computer architecture books from the 50's. Zane From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Apr 16 23:50:13 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? References: <3.0.6.32.20040417004524.008cdcb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <4080B785.50209@jetnet.ab.ca> Joe R. wrote: > My collecting: > > 1. Old computers > 2. Old test equipment to fix #1 > 3. Old electronics parts to fix #1 and 2 > 4. Old cars to look for #1, 2 and 3. > 5. Old truck to haul #1, 2 and 3. > 6. Old metal working equipment to make parts for #1 through 5. > 7. Old house to store #1 through 6. > 8. Old guns to protect #1 through 7. > 9. Old missiles to protect #7. > 10 Old money to pay for all of the above! > > Did I miss anything? > > Joe :-) > 11 Old Atomic power plant to power said computers. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Apr 17 00:04:43 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: TI Bubble Memory? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040417002909.008c5350@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <20040416225455.2465bd4d.sastevens@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.32.20040416232127.008a46d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040416232127.008a46d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040417010443.0087e860@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> >>On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 23:21:27 -0400 >>I wrote: >> >>> Today I found a couple of multibus cards made by TI. One of them is >>> marked TM990/210. I've been searching the net for more info on this card. The only thing that I can find is a mention of one in the Smithsonian. It's severly damaged and is a year newer than mine. Very cool find! I'll try to get it cleaned up and photographed and post some pictures later this weekend. In addition to a TI TMS9916NL LSIC, it has six large >>> yellow "blocks" on it that I THINK may be bubble memories. They're about 1 >>> 1/4" square and about 7/16" thick and are marked "TIB 0203S, 23May80 -1, >>> MSK=627573, 8B, 958-S-40, 24-164-11". They're in flattened out metal >>> cylinders with a black epoxy looking material in the center. There are >>> seven leads coming out of each end and there is what looks like a small >>> plastic transistor clipped to the side of the package. It looks like a >>> transistor but only has two leads so I'm guessing that it's probably a >>> temperatrure sensor. Does anyone know if these are bubble memories? I've >>> had TI bubble memories before but they didn't look anything like this. >>> Anyone know what these cards are? the second one is marked TM990/310. It >>> has three TI TMS9901s on it along with many SSI ICs. Joe From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Apr 17 00:04:34 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Apr 17, 2004 05:43:05 AM Message-ID: <200404170504.i3H54ZNR004481@onyx.spiritone.com> > > 2D or 3D Photography? :^) > > Mostly 2D, but I have no problem with sterao photography. Holography is > rather impractical for general picture-taking though... > > -tony I've collected a few holograms, but never seriously considered attempting to make one. I've been known to do my own Stereo cards, as well as Realist and Viewmaster format slides (I have 3D projectors for both types of slides). Unfortunately this is one hobby that's really suffered in recent years. Zane From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Apr 17 00:27:13 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: An original specification document for the 4001, 4002, 4003, & 4004 Micro Computer Set; Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040417012713.008d24d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found this while poking around at the Smithsonian's site. . In Windows you can click on each picture to get a larger view then you can right click on each individual picture and save just the brochure page. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Apr 17 00:28:12 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <4080B785.50209@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3.0.6.32.20040417004524.008cdcb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040417012812.008d2c50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:50 PM 4/16/04 -0600, you wrote: >Joe R. wrote: >> My collecting: >> >> 1. Old computers >> 2. Old test equipment to fix #1 >> 3. Old electronics parts to fix #1 and 2 >> 4. Old cars to look for #1, 2 and 3. >> 5. Old truck to haul #1, 2 and 3. >> 6. Old metal working equipment to make parts for #1 through 5. >> 7. Old house to store #1 through 6. >> 8. Old guns to protect #1 through 7. >> 9. Old missiles to protect #7. >> 10 Old money to pay for all of the above! >> >> Did I miss anything? >> >> Joe :-) >> > >11 Old Atomic power plant to power said computers. 12 And an iceberg to cool them! From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Apr 17 00:30:49 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <200404170504.i3H54ZNR004481@onyx.spiritone.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040417013049.00883380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:04 PM 4/16/04 -0700, Zane wrote: >> > 2D or 3D Photography? :^) >> >> Mostly 2D, but I have no problem with sterao photography. Holography is >> rather impractical for general picture-taking though... >> >> -tony > >I've collected a few holograms, but never seriously considered attempting >to make one. It's easy IF you have the right equipment. Somewhere I have one of a Coke can that I made using MMC's lab. Joe From pat at computer-refuge.org Sat Apr 17 00:31:15 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <4080B785.50209@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3.0.6.32.20040417004524.008cdcb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <4080B785.50209@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <200404170031.15382.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Friday 16 April 2004 23:50, ben franchuk wrote: > Joe R. wrote: > > My collecting: > > > > 1. Old computers > > 2. Old test equipment to fix #1 > > 3. Old electronics parts to fix #1 and 2 > > 4. Old cars to look for #1, 2 and 3. > > 5. Old truck to haul #1, 2 and 3. > > 6. Old metal working equipment to make parts for #1 through 5. > > 7. Old house to store #1 through 6. > > 8. Old guns to protect #1 through 7. > > 9. Old missiles to protect #7. > > 10 Old money to pay for all of the above! > > > > Did I miss anything? > > > > Joe :-) > > 11 Old Atomic power plant to power said computers. While I'd personally love the idea, it seems the NRC (and probably some people form other 3-letter government orgs) don't like people posessing large amounts of radioactive materials; especially things like Pu-239 or U-235... And I don't think I'd want to maintain a large scale atomic power plant, either. It'd be interesting, however, to set up a small scale breeder reactor, like the PUR-1 that Purdue has, or maybe even something that would fit on a table top (although it's hard to go critical with that little of mass). Also, don't forget you'd have to cool the machines and power plant (unless you live in Alaska.. or northern Canada :). Of course, the gov't (and neighbors) probably also would have something to say about the x-ray equipment I've collected. I just wish I had the time to set up a nice lead-shielded box for making x-ray photos of stuff. I've got basically everything I need, I just need to form the box out of clumps of lead. What I need is a blast furnace to melt the lead; my stove sorta works, but not quite well enough. So I guess my "other" collections would include: 1) Video editing stuff 2) Electronic test equipment 3) Anything with tubes in it that I can get cheaply...which isn't too difficult around Purdue 4) "Nuclear" equipment, like geiger counters, scalers, x-ray tubes & power supplies (some of this overlaps with #3) 5) High-voltage gear, like power supplies (this overlaps with #3 and #4) At some point, I want to combine 4 and 5, and make a small linear accelerator, but I don't have any ideas on what to do for it (and would need somewhere to put it...underground would probably be a Good Idea (TM)). Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Apr 17 00:42:48 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? References: <3.0.6.32.20040417004524.008cdcb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <4080B785.50209@jetnet.ab.ca> <200404170031.15382.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <4080C3D8.5080104@jetnet.ab.ca> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > At some point, I want to combine 4 and 5, and make a small linear > accelerator, but I don't have any ideas on what to do for it (and would > need somewhere to put it...underground would probably be a Good Idea > (TM)). Join the fusor club ... http://www.fusor.net/ Ben. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Apr 17 00:52:45 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:53 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200404170559.BAA24821@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> Shortly thereafter, I got away from the whole gaming thing, as it >> just started getting silly (i.e. Dungeons and Dragons characters >> became boring after just a few levels). > To get totally off-topic in a wholly geek way, :-) > I think it really depended on the imagination of the DM or GM to make > the world fun and interesting. Not just imagination, but also skill. I used to RPG a good deal in years past. If you have a really good GM and players who are more interested in enjoying the roleplaying than in rules lawyering, you don't even really need a system. Once, at a gaming con, I played a more or less systemless adventure in which characters had just one stat, and it worked splendidly (of course, the adventure and what skeletal system there was were designed by the GM for the event). > I always had this fantasy of putting together a real-life D&D where > you'd have a big cave filled with all sorts of people playing scary > creatures or something. It's been done; indeed, I understand it still is done fairly regularly (though in the cases I know of, aboveground). I understand the groups that do it vary in how much they make the players and characters identical (for example, is combat handled a la the SCA or with dice and charts a la most gaming systems?), but the basic idea is as you say. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Sat Apr 17 01:15:05 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: Write protect tags In-Reply-To: <200404170153.SAA06422@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200404170153.SAA06422@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <91BB0B5F-9036-11D8-ACD5-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Apr 16, 2004, at 6:53 PM, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi > I just saw something interesting on ebay. Now for > years, I've been carefully placing the tags on the > disk nice and square. I even pre-bend them so that > there is little or no force pulling them off the surface. > Still, one or another will eventually snag on one of the > corners and lift up. > Well, I just saw a disk with the tag mounted such that > it was diagonally mounted( looks like a little triangle > from each side ). There are no parallel edges to catch > on things as one slides the disk in and out. The > sharp corners that might catch are on the edge of the > disk and unlikely to cause the tag to lift. > Has anyone else tried this? What do you think? > Dwight > > at one time I had some little "stakes" that you slip into the write protect hole in a 5.25 disk. ________ |\ pointy end pokes out | \ corner of diskette. | | | | | | | | |__| | | slot | | is |__| here From sastevens at earthlink.net Sat Apr 17 02:48:15 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <001501c42432$10cf43c0$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> References: <2BA91DBB.775987C0.0000EF7A@aol.com> <001501c42432$10cf43c0$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> Message-ID: <20040417024815.4306b677.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 00:11:01 -0400 "Brian Mahoney" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > > So, anyone else like to expose any other collecting and/or strange > behavior of their own? ... > > Best, David Greelish, classiccomputing.com > > > > You mean other than girlfriends, ex-wives and bad debts? > Sure. California Raisins, hardcover sports books (a couple from the 40s > about the Brooklyn Dodgers and the Yankees), > old sports equipment and Mario/super Mario stuff. > > Besides computer hardware/software/manuals, I also collect books about > computers. Here's a shot at another thread. My oldest is from > 1962, The Thinking Machine by John Pfeiffer published by Popular Science > Living Library Program (with jacket in near mint condition.) > Shots of MIT's Lincoln Lab, Ascension Island antimissile defense system, > etc. There was a TV show by the same name and the TXo computer would write > scripts for Westerns, according to the book. > Next oldest is 1965 , 'The Computer Age and Its Potential for Management' by > Gilbert Burck and the Editors of Fortune. The one I have is the 7th > printing, believe it or not and, again, has the original dust jacket and is > in near-mint condition. > I find these books fascinating since they are not manuals. They were meant > to explain and introduce computers to the lay person. Pretty cool stuff, to > me anyway. > Lastly, I collect school textbooks about computers. Generally these are high > school Computer Science kinds of texts, full of high-res pics of all the > computers you guys talk about. Add to this the plain-English explanations of > how the various pieces interacted and you can see how I got hooked. My > background is motion picture technology and communication arts not > computers. > Who's got older books? > > I have "Corey Ford's Guide to Thimking Machines" (spelling correct, people used to love jokes about mis-spellings of IBM's 'Think' motto) from 1961. A presentation copy from IBM. It's called 'A Handbook for the Home Cybernetician' on a frontleaf page. It's got tons of those wonderful cartoons from the 1950's that feature big room-sized boxes with doo-dads and controls all over them and a befuddled human or two. What 'the common man' thought a computer was at the time. Also in the 'front matter' of the book : "Corey Ford wishes to express his thanks to IBM 704, IBM 705, IBM 7070, IBM 7090, and IBM RAMAC, without whom this book could not have been written" The preface is titled "A Computer in Every Home" which was intended as a ridiculously funny thing at the time, only fit for a joke book. I wish I'd saved more of Dad's books from the old days of IBM. He also had a complete set of Datamation magazine going back to the beginning, that was thrown away in the mid 80's. From bert at brothom.nl Sat Apr 17 07:23:35 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? References: <2BA91DBB.775987C0.0000EF7A@aol.com> <40805244.9090004@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <408121C7.C282FD7@brothom.nl> John Honniball wrote: > > MTPro@aol.com wrote: > > So, anyone else like to expose any other collecting > > Well, I have the usual (!) collection of old electronic test gear, plus > phones, audio and video gear: > > http://www.gifford.co.uk/~coredump/oldsad.htm > John, I don't understand this description of the knife switch: >> A porcelain knife switch, used for disconnecting an aerial from a radio receiver. The two centre terminals of the switch are connected to the radio and the two left-hand terminals go to the antenna. Finally, the two terminals on the right are earthed. The switch incorporates two spark-gaps which are intended to prevent lightning from damaging the radio. But the real protective measure is to switch the handle over to the earthed position whenever the radio is not in use. This connects the aerial directly to earth, and disconnects it from the radio. << It seems to me that the radio is connected to earth instead of the aerial... Bert From RCini at congressfinancial.com Thu Apr 15 15:18:31 2004 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: truckload of PDP stuff Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA46A5@mail10.congressfinancial.com> What's more astounding is the number of page views: 761. Rich Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces+AEA-classiccmp.org +AFs-mailto:cctalk-bounces+AEA-classiccmp.org+AF0-On Behalf Of John Allain Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 4:06 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: truckload of PDP stuff http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem+ACY-item+AD0-4122358161 Winning bid: US +ACQ-1,275.00 Another, gulp... Successful rescue+ACE- John A. From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Fri Apr 16 11:11:17 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <2BA91DBB.775987C0.0000EF7A@aol.com> References: <2BA91DBB.775987C0.0000EF7A@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040416115151.023d8868@24.161.37.215> Wouldn't one with electronic digital readout and electronic buttons like a current technology microwave count? You have the "timer" and "sensor" and "settings" for amount of damage you wish to do with the heat, right? Something has to control all of it together and I do remember seeing one like that for kids about 6 or 7 years back before the Jamesway chain went under here in the U.S. (simply because one of my younger cousins at the time wanted one of those toy easy bake things with the magic light bulb of heat power, lol. He later learned how to put paper and other items into it when no one was looking and start small fires.). I remember the queasy bake and the gummy maker, etc. Anyone who is under 40 or so in this group and had a K.B. Toys nearby - well, in the U.S. (been in one), can remember those things lining their shelves, next to play-doh and board games, across from the model train stuff and plastic modeling supplies. Side note: I burned out my pizza hut bake oven. For a time in the 90's, 3 of the local Pizza Huts actually had a table reserved for my family and I, year round. =) Getting back on topic: 1- Sellam, I'll email you shortly next week on the said items we discussed and will be shipping soon. 2- Tom Ponsford, I'll get back to discussions with you this week as well, as I have also been busy around Easter (sorry). 3- The Proxim cards sound cool and well, if you want Joe, I can help search out more so they can be of some use to you (no fee). 4- Am I leaving anyone else out? If so, contact me privately, thanks. -John Boffemmyer IV At 11:05 AM 4/16/2004, you wrote: >... Snippity, snip, snip, damnit. >... >Best, David Greelish, classiccomputing.com ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From vcf at siconic.com Sat Apr 17 08:11:08 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: TI Bubble Memory? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040417002909.008c5350@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Apr 2004, Joe R. wrote: > places but haven't seen any for several years. This is the first TI bubble > memory that I've ever seen too. Now I just need to find some docs on this I've got an Intel labelled box that used to contain 100 pieces of Bubble Memory modules encased in large foam blocks; 4 layers with 25 pieces per layer. I found it at an electronics surplus shop with 99 pieces :) I sold or gave away a dozen or so. I haven't seen that box in a while. I wonder from time to time where it went. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sat Apr 17 09:06:26 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: Teletype Cover.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Greetings all, Just received the teletype that I had purchased. If you all remember I had posted shipping concerns a while back. Guess what.....It was damaged in shipping! It looks like all of the functional parts are OK (I will be running tests and powering it up over the coming week) but the right rear corner of the main cover was trashed. I will be looking for a new cover, if anyone has any leads, please e-mail me directly. David. From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Apr 17 10:13:16 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: DIY Saltpeter (was: Other collecting activities?) In-Reply-To: <20040416225839.38cea481.sastevens@earthlink.net> References: <200404170240.TAA06448@clulw009.amd.com> <20040417035340.GG11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <20040416225839.38cea481.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20040417151315.GH11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Scott Stevens, from writings of Fri, Apr 16, 2004 at 10:58:39PM -0500: > Be careful now, you'll have the 'Homeland Security' folks shutting >down all the horse stables and impounding manure. IIRC, in Baltimoron County, MD, one has to pay a licenced or certified manure removal company to haul it away, and it's against the law to just let people come and take it for their gardens, saltpeter, etc. Not sure if the purpose of the law is related to the environment, special interests (e.g. manure haulers) or the naziland security rubbish. No real way that I can figure that they can enforce such an insipid law though. Mountainous amounts can accumulate rather quickly with only about 15 or so stabled horses. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From mross666 at hotmail.com Sat Apr 17 10:28:36 2004 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City Message-ID: I'm a frelling long way from Kansas (New York) but I could seriously use an RM03 or two for testing against the Setasi emulated RM03 setup on my pdp-10s(s)... Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ >From must-see cities to the best beaches, plan a getaway with the Spring Travel Guide! http://special.msn.com/local/springtravel.armx From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Apr 17 10:38:34 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: DIY Saltpeter (was: Other collecting activities?) In-Reply-To: References: <200404170240.TAA06448@clulw009.amd.com> <20040417035340.GG11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <20040416225839.38cea481.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20040417153834.GI11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe John Lawson, from writings of Sat, Apr 17, 2004 at 12:09:10AM -0400: > Heeeeeyyyy!!!! That's freakin' BRILLIANT!!! Tons and tons of HorseShit > dumped in/around Herr Ash-Krofft and his unruly band of > much-darker-than-red shirted thug^H^H^H^H NuPatryuts(tm). ROFL! Those people are far less patriotic than my toenail clipings. > Of course, having neither Humor, nor Brains, I'm afraid the irony would > be lost on them. True. ...and with their current crackdown on porn, I'm just waiting for the humor-impaired DOJ to contact me about my hosting a copy of the EMUSIC-L Digest from 1989, containing information about the humorous Project SynthSex, on my web site. http://www.rddavis.org/rdd/issue3-synthsex.txt > Doesn't keep it from being a most wonderful idea; one that the Equine > Husbandry folks might welcome as well... free mucking! What farm wouldn't appreciate that? I have to say that, even after speding a year and a half taking care of a horse farm for someone, and mucking stalls in freezing and humid 100 degree days, surrounded by biting flies at times, that such tasks were more pleasant work than working in the typical corporate office environment. I miss it. Fresh outdoor air, surrounded by critters that are much easier to get along with, and communicate with, and far more intelligent, than the average human cow-orker, no flourescent lighting, having great fun while working---like driving a tractor down the road, in low gear, with a round bale of hay on the spear and making the impatient harried suburbanites driving behind me drive real slowwwwwwwwwwwww. :-) > O well, this is hideously off topic. > > Sue me... Hey, it's actually still somewhat on-topic; we could use saltpeter to dispose of vintage packaged Micro$oft software. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From pcw at mesanet.com Sat Apr 17 10:41:41 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: TI Bubble Memory? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040416232127.008a46d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Apr 2004, Joe R. wrote: > Today I found a couple of multibus cards made by TI. One of them is > marked TM990/210. In addition to a TI TMS9916NL LSIC, it has six large > yellow "blocks" on it that I THINK may be bubble memories. They're about 1 > 1/4" square and about 7/16" thick and are marked "TIB 0203S, 23May80 -1, > MSK=627573, 8B, 958-S-40, 24-164-11". They're in flattened out metal > cylinders with a black epoxy looking material in the center. There are > seven leads coming out of each end and there is what looks like a small > plastic transistor clipped to the side of the package. It looks like a > transistor but only has two leads so I'm guessing that it's probably a > temperatrure sensor. Does anyone know if these are bubble memories? I've > had TI bubble memories before but they didn't look anything like this. > Anyone know what these cards are? the second one is marked TM990/310. It > has three TI TMS9901s on it along with many SSI ICs. > > Joe > Are you sure they are Multibus? TM990 sounds more like they go in TI 9900 series backplane... Peter Wallace From george at rachors.com Sat Apr 17 10:48:48 2004 From: george at rachors.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <000b01c42423$e0114520$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: OK... little plug for another hobby of mine.... www.nar.org www.tripoli.org - and www.rocketcontest.org It's a blast George ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Fri, 16 Apr 2004, Jay West wrote: > > > Model Rockets, anyone? > That used to be a HUGE hobby of mine. Haven't done anything with it in > years. I want SO bad to get back into it, and design heavier rockets than > balsa and cardboard. Need a better propellant though - love to try LOX. But > that's not the the real goal that makes me want to get back into it. I want > to program microcontrollers to launch inside of it and regulate movable > control surfaces. I want to paint a huge target on the ground (grass), and > the competition would be to see how close you could get the rocket to target > (and hit) the bullseye. Twould be fun stuff. > > Jay > > > From george at rachors.com Sat Apr 17 11:14:56 2004 From: george at rachors.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: TI Bubble Memory? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I always wanted to find the bubble memory card that went into the Apple ][. The original diskless workstation.... George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Sat, 17 Apr 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sat, 17 Apr 2004, Joe R. wrote: > > > places but haven't seen any for several years. This is the first TI bubble > > memory that I've ever seen too. Now I just need to find some docs on this > > I've got an Intel labelled box that used to contain 100 pieces of Bubble > Memory modules encased in large foam blocks; 4 layers with 25 pieces per > layer. I found it at an electronics surplus shop with 99 pieces :) I > sold or gave away a dozen or so. I haven't seen that box in a while. I > wonder from time to time where it went. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From vcf at siconic.com Sat Apr 17 11:40:53 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: TI Bubble Memory? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Apr 2004, George Leo Rachor Jr. wrote: > I always wanted to find the bubble memory card that went into the Apple > ][. The original diskless workstation.... Never heard of that but it sounds delicious. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From george at rachors.com Sat Apr 17 12:34:39 2004 From: george at rachors.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: TI Bubble Memory? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry I can't find an english website: htt://www.apple2world.jp/apple2/col/mapitems.card/memory/bubblememory/bubblememory.html George ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Sat, 17 Apr 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sat, 17 Apr 2004, George Leo Rachor Jr. wrote: > > > I always wanted to find the bubble memory card that went into the Apple > > ][. The original diskless workstation.... > > Never heard of that but it sounds delicious. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Apr 17 12:35:34 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? References: <2BA91DBB.775987C0.0000EF7A@aol.com> <40805244.9090004@gifford.co.uk> <408121C7.C282FD7@brothom.nl> Message-ID: <40816AE6.1040106@jetnet.ab.ca> >> A porcelain knife switch, used for disconnecting an aerial from a >> radio receiver. The two centre terminals of the switch are >> connected to the radio and the two left-hand terminals go to the >> antenna. Finally, the two terminals on the right are earthed. The >> switch incorporates two spark-gaps which are intended to prevent >> lightning from damaging the radio. But the real protective measure >> is to switch the handle over to the earthed position whenever the >> radio is not in use. This connects the aerial directly to earth, >> and disconnects it from the radio. That is a darn good idea. Often used in reverse for bringing 'Monsters' to life. :) From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Apr 17 13:31:37 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040417112529.G99527@newshell.lmi.net> On Sat, 17 Apr 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > 2D or 3D Photography? :^) > Mostly 2D, but I have no problem with sterao photography. Holography is > rather impractical for general picture-taking though... Would anybody be interested in a Fujinon holography camera? http://www.xenosoft.com/fujinon/MVC-001F.JPG http://www.xenosoft.com/fujinon/MVC-006F.JPG (MVC-001F.JPG through MVC-012F.JPG) It doesn't look like I will get around to using it. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From tponsford at theriver.com Sat Apr 17 13:04:14 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro380, VAXstation In-Reply-To: <200404152224.i3FMOQkE029176@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200404152224.i3FMOQkE029176@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <4081719E.9040702@theriver.com> > Zane H. Healy wrote: > Hands down, a /73 or better is the way to go. While a Pro350/380 might be > cheaper, you're seriously restricted as to what you can use for disk drives > (IIRC RD51, RD52, and RD53). With a Q-Bus based PDP-11 you can use 3rd > party disk controllers that let you use non-DEC MFM, ESDI, or SCSI Hard > Drives. I agree a 11/73 is far superior to a Pro380/350. And as mentioned in this thread, the Pro 350/380's seem harder to find. I currently own 3 Pro 325/350's and a Pro 380 One I keep running and the others are for backup/spares. I also have an Eletronika-85 which is an exact Russian copy of the Dec Pro-350. The Electronika-85 also has the first Winchester disk ever introduced to a desktop PC in the former Soviet Union/Eastern Block. When I get the time, I'll take some pictures of a side-by-side comparison of the Dec 350 and the Electronica-85. It's really weird. The Electronica was designed to be so compatible with the DEC 350, that the parts were to be interchangeable. They are not, however. There are certain differences. Although my Electronica is complete. it does not however power-on. I have lacked the time to track down the problem, so it sits in storage. The fact that everything is labelled in Cyrillic slow troubleshooting down. I have yet to find anybody in the U.S. who has one or ANY documentation, even in Cyrillic. Anybody!! > Personally I feel the best plan is to simply start collecting all the pieces > needed to build a /23+ or /73 (chassis, CPU, RAM, Disk Controller, etc). > This is basically how I built my main PDP-11, though I have others that came > complete, or mostly complete. The trouble with that if you are a newbie is the learning curve. and piecing together a Pdp can get quite expensive. I have been lucky in that I bought a lot of stuff at auctions for next-to-nothing. If you live in a city with a major university nearby, check to see if they have surplus auctions. Industrial liquidators are also good. Many pdp's were used in Computer-controlled-machinery and are sold as essentially scrap. > Cheers Tom > -- --- Please do not read this sig. If you have read this far, please unread back to the beginning. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 17 13:39:14 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <200404170504.i3H54ZNR004481@onyx.spiritone.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at Apr 16, 4 10:04:34 pm Message-ID: > > > > 2D or 3D Photography? :^) > > > > Mostly 2D, but I have no problem with sterao photography. Holography is > > rather impractical for general picture-taking though... > > > > -tony > > I've collected a few holograms, but never seriously considered attempting > to make one. I've been known to do my own Stereo cards, as well as Realist I Vmade one as an undergraduate practicsl (lab session?) at university. Wasn't hard, but you do need a stabke bench on vibration isolators. > and Viewmaster format slides (I have 3D projectors for both types of > slides). Unfortunately this is one hobby that's really suffered in recent > years. Why? It can't be that hard to get the materials. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 17 13:43:51 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <200404170031.15382.pat@computer-refuge.org> from "Patrick Finnegan" at Apr 17, 4 00:31:15 am Message-ID: > stuff. I've got basically everything I need, I just need to form the > box out of clumps of lead. What I need is a blast furnace to melt the > lead; my stove sorta works, but not quite well enough. I needed to melt some lead recently, to make a weight [1]. I used a propane blowtorch -- one of those ones sold for light brazing jobs. It's like the typical home butane blowtorch [2], but the flame is considerably hotter. It took a bit of time to get it started, but once it did start to melt it was pretty easy to keep it molten. This was to cast a block about 6" * 3" * 3". [1] For a DeVere 504 enlarger. The copyback (copying camera attachment) is considerably lighter than the light source assembly, so you need this weight to counteract the springs in the column when you fit the copyback. [2] Tried a butane blowlamp first, didn't do anything much -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 17 13:53:06 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: Teletype Cover.. In-Reply-To: from "David V. Corbin" at Apr 17, 4 10:06:26 am Message-ID: > > > Greetings all, > > Just received the teletype that I had purchased. If you all remember I had > posted shipping concerns a while back. Guess what.....It was damaged in > shipping! > > It looks like all of the functional parts are OK (I will be running tests > and powering it up over the coming week) but the right rear corner of the > main cover was trashed. You might be able to repair it. It won't look as good, but it'll protect the TTY (and prevent you from getting caught up in the works!). First find a solvent for the plastic. Dichoromethane (methylene chloride) is often suitable. It should soften the surface of the plastic if brushed on (try this inside, obviously). Then put the hits together a few at a time, and run a brush dipped in the solvent along the cracks. This will stick them together, Take a pice of fabric. Cotton seems to work well (handkerchief, old shirt, etc). When I needed this, my mother draged me into a sewing shop, dived into a box of offcuts and pulled out something costing 50p (IIRC). It worked fine, and I've got plenty left for other jobs. Anyway, cut a piece of this fabric to cover the inside of the broken area, with an overlap onto good, unbroken, parts of the cover. Put it in place and brush it with the solvent. Press it into the softened plastic. Let it all dry. The result is normally pretty strong. -tony From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Sat Apr 17 15:11:33 2004 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40818F75.1020305@sbcglobal.net> Patrick wrote: >>>So, anyone else like to expose any other collecting and/or strange >>>behavior of their own? > > > I brew beer. Started in '85, decided to take a break after the '94 National > Homebrew Competition and ended up slacking until just last year, when I > "rediscovered" the joy. My hobby of *drinking* (good) beer has continued > without pause, however. --Patrick > My wife got me a 5 gallon brew kit from Midwest Supply for Christmas. Brewed a Scottish Light Ale, and a Belgian Trappist Ale so far; and both came out very nicely... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Sat Apr 17 15:11:50 2004 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40818F86.90507@sbcglobal.net> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Fri, 16 Apr 2004, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > >> Paper based RPGs? Ever hear of Gamma World? Post-nuclear radiation >>infested land, based around Pittsburgh. I haven't played that since, oh, >>1987 or so... I think I may even still have it around somewhere. > > > Is that the one where your character could be a plant (plant-based > lifeform mutated from nuclear radiation), an animal (same deal), a > big-assed human (genetically engineered to be extrasize), etc.? I think I > played that for a couple sessions with some nerd associates back in > highschool. I wish I could've played more but our group was rather > dysfunctional. > Yep, that's sound right. I created a 7 foot tall humanoid creature that had sharpened 2 1/2 foot long bone material (3 on each arm) extend out from his forearms. I should think that would sound familiar to the comic book fans here. ;-) -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Apr 17 11:16:23 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: References: <200404170031.15382.pat@computer-refuge.org> from "Patrick Finnegan" at Apr 17, 4 00:31:15 am Message-ID: <20040417201348.OTEB15811.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > I needed to melt some lead recently, to make a weight [1]. I used a > propane blowtorch -- one of those ones sold for light brazing jobs. It's > like the typical home butane blowtorch [2], but the flame is considerably > hotter. > A wood fire will melt lead. I and my brother did that years ago to melt little scraps of lead into one larger block. Cheers, Wizard From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Apr 17 14:58:45 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: TI Bubble Memory? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040416232127.008a46d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040417155845.00833d10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:41 AM 4/17/04 -0700, Peter Wallace wrote: >On Fri, 16 Apr 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> Today I found a couple of multibus cards made by TI. One of them is >> marked TM990/210. In addition to a TI TMS9916NL LSIC, it has six large >> yellow "blocks" on it that I THINK may be bubble memories. They're about 1 >> 1/4" square and about 7/16" thick and are marked "TIB 0203S, 23May80 -1, >> MSK=627573, 8B, 958-S-40, 24-164-11". They're in flattened out metal >> cylinders with a black epoxy looking material in the center. There are >> seven leads coming out of each end and there is what looks like a small >> plastic transistor clipped to the side of the package. It looks like a >> transistor but only has two leads so I'm guessing that it's probably a >> temperatrure sensor. Does anyone know if these are bubble memories? I've >> had TI bubble memories before but they didn't look anything like this. >> Anyone know what these cards are? the second one is marked TM990/310. It >> has three TI TMS9901s on it along with many SSI ICs. >> >> Joe >> > >Are you sure they are Multibus? TM990 sounds more like they go in TI 9900 >series backplane... No I'm not. I had just got home with them and haven't checked them to be sure but they look like Multibus. Let me go check. Nope, it's not. It's not as wide as a Multibus card and the contacts and contact row are narrower. Rats! Joe > > >> > From brianmahoney at look.ca Sat Apr 17 15:46:56 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? References: <200404170453.i3H4rjeq004347@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <002b01c424bd$3139b1a0$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 12:53 AM Subject: Re: Other collecting activities? > This brings up an interesting question, have there really been computers > that could write scripts or books? I remember rumors in the mid-80's that > some of the pulpish adventure books were written by a computer. Personally > I find it hard to believe. > According to the book I mentioned, the TX-0 wrote three scripts for a western 'playlet'. They were actually televised during the CBS show, The Thinking Machine. The computer used a script-writing program called SAGA II. According to this link : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TX-0 the TX-0 became the PDP-1. bm From brianmahoney at look.ca Sat Apr 17 16:23:45 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: ISA boards References: Message-ID: <003501c424c2$55d38f40$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norm and Beth Anheier" To: Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 11:11 PM Subject: FS: ISA boards > I have two interesting ISA boards available. The first is a > hewlett-packard HPIB card and the second is a single board computer > with an Intel DX2-66. I presume these are in working order,but can not > verify. $10 each + shipping. > > Thanks Norm > An isa DX2-66? Interesting/curious. There were ones for the Macs (PC compatability cards) but I can't think of a purpose (right now anyway) for an isa card like that. I wish shipping to Canada wasn't ridiculous. bm __________________ Is your name on this list? It should be. http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Apr 17 16:21:22 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: ISA boards References: <003501c424c2$55d38f40$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> Message-ID: <40819FD2.2030609@jetnet.ab.ca> Brian Mahoney wrote: > An isa DX2-66? Interesting/curious. There were ones for the Macs (PC > compatability cards) but I can't think of a purpose (right now anyway) for > an isa card like that. I wish shipping to Canada wasn't ridiculous. Try the postal system, that works best to Canada. PS. I got some ISA Targa 16 boards to go to a good home too, from Canada. From torquil at chemist.com Sat Apr 17 16:26:32 2004 From: torquil at chemist.com (Torquil MacCorkle, III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: ISA boards References: <003501c424c2$55d38f40$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> Message-ID: <013f01c424c2$a8d47dd0$0500a8c0@floyd> > > I have two interesting ISA boards available. The first is a > > hewlett-packard HPIB card and the second is a single board computer > > with an Intel DX2-66. I presume these are in working order,but can not > > verify. $10 each + shipping. > > > > Thanks Norm > > > > An isa DX2-66? Interesting/curious. There were ones for the Macs (PC > compatability cards) but I can't think of a purpose (right now anyway) for > an isa card like that. I wish shipping to Canada wasn't ridiculous. Wonder if those would work on an Indigo 2..... From vcf at siconic.com Sat Apr 17 16:44:53 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: ISA boards In-Reply-To: <003501c424c2$55d38f40$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Apr 2004, Brian Mahoney wrote: > An isa DX2-66? Interesting/curious. There were ones for the Macs (PC > compatability cards) but I can't think of a purpose (right now anyway) for > an isa card like that. I wish shipping to Canada wasn't ridiculous. This would be used in conjunction with a passive backplane, e.g. a board with just ISA slots. The processor then fills one slot. Usually there are 8 or more slots. It's typically for big rackmount PCs where you need a lot of slots for specialized boards such as telephony boards or whatnot. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Apr 17 12:57:43 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: ISA boards In-Reply-To: <40819FD2.2030609@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20040417215506.JLDR1581.tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Snip > > an isa card like that. I wish shipping to Canada wasn't ridiculous. > > Try the postal system, that works best to Canada. > PS. I got some ISA Targa 16 boards to go to a good home too, from Canada. Go postal (USPS), have shipped both ways this way with success. ExFed, UPS etc charges a arm and a leg for border fee. Grrr USPS don't which is very nice. Cheers, Wizard From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Apr 17 16:58:16 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > and Viewmaster format slides (I have 3D projectors for both types of >> slides). Unfortunately this is one hobby that's really suffered in recent >> years. > >Why? It can't be that hard to get the materials. > >-tony I meant my participation in the hobby, the big problem with hobby is obtaining camera's and projectors. The bulk of the equipment in use was built in the 50's. Thankfully there are enough people using the equipment still that you can still get mounts (realist format at least, I think ViewMaster mounts might be getting rare) and projector bulbs. I was finally able to get a Realist format projector just before Christmas, it's taken me over 15 years of keeping an eye out for one available locally. Of course if you can afford it you can get custom made camera's made out of twin modern 35mm camera's. They take the two camera bodies and turn them into one, then take the lenses and make it so that when you turn one to focus the other turns as well. Then you've got to have a special rig to hold the two 35mm slide projectors so that they project the images just right on the screen (going through polarized filters of course). Unfortunately I don't feel like I can afford this, as last I checked such a setup costs $3-4000 for the camera and projector! Some interesting things for the traditional Stereo Card format could probably be done with a properly hacked pair of digital cameras. I'm not sure what might have been done along these lines. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Apr 17 17:20:11 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: melting lead was Re: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <20040417201348.OTEB15811.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <200404170031.15382.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040417182011.008ed320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> As a side line to my other hobbies I cast about 100 lbs of lead a year. (That's a LOT of bullets!) One of the best ways to melt lead is to find one of the old Coleman pump-up camp stoves that uses gasoline. They put out plenty of heat and have a good hot flame and they're small and lightweight and can be setup outside where there's plenty of ventilation. I have small single buner stove of that type that was made for the USMC during WW-II. It folds up into a cylinder about 5" in diameter and about 10" tall. The stove then fits inside of two stainless steel metal pots that fit together with a twist lock. It works great and it really puts out the heat! Joe At 04:16 PM 4/17/04 +0000, you wrote: >> I needed to melt some lead recently, to make a weight [1]. I used a >> propane blowtorch -- one of those ones sold for light brazing jobs. It's >> like the typical home butane blowtorch [2], but the flame is considerably >> hotter. >> > >A wood fire will melt lead. I and my brother did that years ago to >melt little scraps of lead into one larger block. > >Cheers, > >Wizard > From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Apr 17 17:41:12 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <40818F86.90507@sbcglobal.net> References: <40818F86.90507@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <200404172247.SAA27450@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> [create-your-own-character RPGs] > Yep, that's sound right. I created a 7 foot tall humanoid creature > that had sharpened 2 1/2 foot long bone material (3 on each arm) > extend out from his forearms. I should think that would sound > familiar to the comic book fans here. ;-) Well, you need to scale it down, and even then, are you saying you have a 7'-tall humanoid with 2'6" forearms? That seems rather out of proportion. Or are these claws nonretractable (unlike Logan's)? I'm actually considering dropping him from the titles I follow. Too much "tune in same time next month for a new set of villians in a more or less indistinguishable story". /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sat Apr 17 17:58:25 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: Magazines available - last call Message-ID: <058f01c424cf$7df33ea0$6e7ba8c0@p933> Hello all, I got rid of most of the magazines I mentioned in my last mail. What I have left (some OT) are the following: PC Magazine: Volumes 5 and 7 (1986 and 1988) PC World: 1984 - 2.1, 2.2, 2.5, 2.7, 2.8, 2.9. 2.10, 2.11, 2.13 1985 - Everything except November and December 1988 - 10,11,12 1997 - All 1998 - All 1999 - All 2000 - 1-4 PC Computing: 1994 - 1998 missing Aug of 1995 Personal Computing: 4/1985 - 12/1988 I will be disposing of the rest of these by next weekend unless someone wants them. Speak up now or forever hold your peace (or something to that effect) Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From vax3900 at yahoo.com Sat Apr 17 18:52:11 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: ISA boards In-Reply-To: <003501c424c2$55d38f40$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> Message-ID: <20040417235211.14168.qmail@web60701.mail.yahoo.com> --- Brian Mahoney wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Norm and Beth Anheier" > To: > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 11:11 PM > Subject: FS: ISA boards > > > > I have two interesting ISA boards available. The > first is a > > hewlett-packard HPIB card and the second is a > single board computer > > with an Intel DX2-66. I presume these are in > working order,but can not > > verify. $10 each + shipping. > > > > Thanks Norm > > > > An isa DX2-66? Interesting/curious. There were ones > for the Macs (PC > compatability cards) but I can't think of a purpose > (right now anyway) for I think it is single board computer, for passive ISA backplanes. How about this one? two 486 on a single board, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3090793649 > an isa card like that. I wish shipping to Canada > wasn't ridiculous. > > bm > > __________________ > Is your name on this list? It should be. > > http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Sat Apr 17 19:00:58 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: Apple IIC+ Pointers on getting programs to and from machine. Message-ID: <788F5B57-90CB-11D8-A841-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> I want to start getting some of the BASIC programs I am writing on my IIC+ out for sharing, I also want to be able to make use of some of the disk images out on the internet (apple.asimov...) How can I do these things? URL's for good web pages? Anybody else into Apple II? From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sat Apr 17 19:28:06 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <40818F75.1020305@sbcglobal.net> References: <40818F75.1020305@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <20040418002806.GA3719@bos7.spole.gov> On Sat, Apr 17, 2004 at 04:11:33PM -0400, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Patrick wrote: > >I brew beer. Started in '85... > > My wife got me a 5 gallon brew kit from Midwest Supply for Christmas. > Brewed a Scottish Light Ale, and a Belgian Trappist Ale so far; and both > came out very nicely... We just cracked a keg of homebrew I started at the beginning of winter. There's almost always a homebrew group at Pole. Turns out, of all the brewers here, I have been doing it the longest (also 1985), so beermaking turned into a beermaking class, but it was lots of fun, and the IPA turned out really good. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 18-Apr-2004 00:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -69.5 F (-56.4 C) Windchill -93.7 F (-69.90 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 6.3 kts Grid 084 Barometer 687.2 mb (10357. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From pkoning at equallogic.com Sat Apr 17 20:28:45 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: PC boards and software References: <200404161414.i3GEESm17182@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <16513.55757.527000.587936@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell writes: >> to be honest, these days, I think using an outside service for a 2 >> layer board is *much* easier and no more expensive (when you add >> up everything). Tony> It's also a lot slower (you can etch and drill a PCB in an Tony> afternoon... Certainly, if it's all through-hole stuff with no pin pitch smaller than 0.1 inch or so. I've done that too. It won't work for 120 lead surface mount ASICs, though, nor for 0603 size SMD discretes. paul From dave04a at dunfield.com Sat Apr 17 20:56:25 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: Apple IIC+ Pointers on getting programs to and from machine. Message-ID: <20040418015625.BDC12B47F0@outbox.allstream.net> At 17:00 17/04/2004 -0700, you wrote: > >I want to start getting some of the BASIC programs I am writing on >my IIC+ out for sharing, I also want to be able to make use of some >of the disk images out on the internet (apple.asimov...) > >How can I do these things? > >URL's for good web pages? > >Anybody else into Apple II? Hi Ron, To transfer images from my Franklin, I built a serial card using a 6551 UART running 19200 bps, and wrote a set of programs for the Apple and the PC to transfer images over a serial link - takes about a minute and a half as I recall to transfer a disk. Do you have a serial interface for the IIC+? Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. From brianmahoney at look.ca Sat Apr 17 21:18:49 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? References: <40818F75.1020305@sbcglobal.net> <20040418002806.GA3719@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <000701c424eb$8e603240$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > There's almost always a homebrew group at Pole. > > -ethan I wonder what temp. beer would be served at down there. Room temperature should be just about right. Wouldn't be any problem making it a tad cooler either, I suppose. :) bm From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 17 22:24:51 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Apr 17, 4 02:58:16 pm Message-ID: > > > > and Viewmaster format slides (I have 3D projectors for both types of > >> slides). Unfortunately this is one hobby that's really suffered in recent > >> years. > > > >Why? It can't be that hard to get the materials. > > > >-tony > > I meant my participation in the hobby, the big problem with hobby is > obtaining camera's and projectors. The bulk of the equipment in use > was built in the 50's. Thankfully there are enough people using the Yes, but well-made photographic equipment doesn't really wear out, so the old stuff can still be repaired and used. > equipment still that you can still get mounts (realist format at > least, I think ViewMaster mounts might be getting rare) and projector > bulbs. I was finally able to get a Realist format projector just Is there anything particuarly odd about the bulbs? Projector bulbs in general are not that hard to find. > before Christmas, it's taken me over 15 years of keeping an eye out > for one available locally. > > Of course if you can afford it you can get custom made camera's made > out of twin modern 35mm camera's. They take the two camera bodies Why on earth would you want to use modern cameras??? There have been several adapters made to take 2 normal camera boddies. CZJ made one that takes 2 Werra cameras (that's one Werra accessory I've not found yet). And of course there were those sliding devices where you take 2 pictures with a single camera, moving it between exposures. Only works for static subjects. Or the prism attachements that fit on the front of the lens and take the 2 images on a single 35mm frame. The Russians made a thing called a Sputnik. A _triple_ lens reflex camera. 2 taking lenses coupled to a viewing lens. Took 6 sterao pairs on a 120 roll film. I've never seen one at a sensible price, though. -tony From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Apr 17 23:50:33 2004 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:54 2005 Subject: OT: Other collecting activities? - Digital Stereo camera Message-ID: In a message dated 4/17/04 2:59:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, healyzh@aracnet.com writes: Some interesting things for the traditional Stereo Card format could probably be done with a properly hacked pair of digital cameras. I'm not sure what might have been done along these lines. Photography in one of my avocations too. Last "buy nothing day" I bought a Pentax Optio 430RS digital camera for an upcoming trip to Mexico. To my surprise it has a stereo mode and came with an interesting stereo viewer. It looks like it will be fun to play with. First you shoot one pic, move the camera slightly and shoot the second pic. They are both recorded on one frame. You then print the pic on a normal color printer which prints the two images on one sheet of paper. Comes with a chart on how much to move the camera for a given focusing distance to get an optimum stereo effect. The viewer is a pop together piece of translucent plastic which you then set on the print and look through the lenses to see the stereo picture. Folds flat. I was surprised to see stereo in the camera and a viewer in the box. Someone high up in Pentax has a stereo bug. I took a couple of stereo pics. Enough to see there is a learning curve. Didn't use stereo on the trip. Turned out to be a good first digital camera for the trip, though. From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Sun Apr 18 00:08:07 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Apple IIC+ Pointers on getting programs to and from machine. In-Reply-To: <20040418015625.BDC12B47F0@outbox.allstream.net> References: <20040418015625.BDC12B47F0@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <61804548-90F6-11D8-BBB5-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Apr 17, 2004, at 6:56 PM, Dave Dunfield wrote: > At 17:00 17/04/2004 -0700, you wrote: >> >> I want to start getting some of the BASIC programs I am writing on >> my IIC+ out for sharing, I also want to be able to make use of some >> of the disk images out on the internet (apple.asimov...) >> >> How can I do these things? >> >> URL's for good web pages? >> >> Anybody else into Apple II? > > Hi Ron, > > To transfer images from my Franklin, I built a serial card using a > 6551 UART running 19200 bps, and wrote a set of programs for the > Apple and the PC to transfer images over a serial link - takes about > a minute and a half as I recall to transfer a disk. > > Do you have a serial interface for the IIC+? It has a built in serial interface. I know the printer port is a serial port, and I think I have a modem port as well. > > Regards, > -- > dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield > dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com > com Vintage computing equipment collector. > From Innfogra at aol.com Sun Apr 18 00:13:11 2004 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: OT: Other collecting activities? - Digital Stereo camera Message-ID: <19b.234e0d88.2db36867@aol.com> Reading my previous post it looks like it came from Zane. Sorry I forgot to sign it. I do like my Optio camera but it shows some of the limitations of earlier cameras. It is probably the last of it's line. Lots of manual options is one of the reasons why I like it. The limitations are two "f" stops and only 100 & 200 ASA Paxton Astoria, OR. From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Sun Apr 18 00:38:21 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Time and apple prodos Message-ID: <9AA53F88-90FA-11D8-96DB-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Apple prodos catalog command shows times and dates for directory entries, how does one give the computer the starting time and date? From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Apr 18 01:53:30 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Is there anything particuarly odd about the bulbs? Projector bulbs in >general are not that hard to find. I'm just concerned about their continued availability. > > Of course if you can afford it you can get custom made camera's made > > out of twin modern 35mm camera's. They take the two camera bodies > >Why on earth would you want to use modern cameras??? Quality lenses and better shutter speeds! I'm normally limited to a max of 100 speed film, though I did shoot 1600 speed once in a cave in Majorca. I think the max shutter speed is something like 1/200th of a second. There is a really impressive difference between projected Viewmaster, Realist and standard 35mm 3D images! >There have been several adapters made to take 2 normal camera boddies. >CZJ made one that takes 2 Werra cameras (that's one Werra accessory I've >not found yet). Is this one of the rigs for holding two standard cameras at the same time? I think I've seen something like this that puts them base to base. I don't think I've ever heard anything about how well they work though. I'd be concerned about shutter timings unless shooting still subjects. > And of course there were those sliding devices where you >take 2 pictures with a single camera, moving it between exposures. Only >works for static subjects. I've actually been looking for a slide bar to try on some experiments with a digital camera. They seem to be something of a rare item these days. I've not looked to hard though as the tests I did by shifting my weight from one leg to the other were less than satisfactory (this actually works quite well with film cameras). >Or the prism attachements that fit on the >front of the lens and take the 2 images on a single 35mm frame. I've seen these advertised, they result in what I'd call an odd format. >The Russians made a thing called a Sputnik. A _triple_ lens reflex >camera. 2 taking lenses coupled to a viewing lens. Took 6 sterao pairs on >a 120 roll film. I've never seen one at a sensible price, though. I've heard of it, but not seen one. BTW, for an interesting page on the different cameras that have been made. http://www.stereoscopy.com/cameras/ Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Apr 18 01:59:59 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: OT: Other collecting activities? - Digital Stereo camera In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Paxton wrote: >Photography in one of my avocations too. Last "buy nothing day" I bought a >Pentax Optio 430RS digital camera for an upcoming trip to Mexico. > >To my surprise it has a stereo mode and came with an interesting stereo >viewer. It looks like it will be fun to play with. First you shoot >one pic, move >the camera slightly and shoot the second pic. They are both recorded on one >frame. You then print the pic on a normal color printer which prints the two >images on one sheet of paper. Interesting... Hopefully the stereo mode also takes into account the changes in lighting as you move ~2.5 inches over. We've got a Kodak digital camera that we bought last year (my wife loves the Kodak photo printers, and the camera does surprisingly good images). With the experiments I've tried, I ended up with major lighting problems trying to do a 3D picture. What I'd *really* like to see is someone sell a true digital 3D camera. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Apr 18 02:34:32 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Apple IIC+ Pointers on getting programs to and from machine. In-Reply-To: <61804548-90F6-11D8-BBB5-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> References: <20040418015625.BDC12B47F0@outbox.allstream.net> <61804548-90F6-11D8-BBB5-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: >>Do you have a serial interface for the IIC+? > >It has a built in serial interface. I know the printer port is a serial >port, and I think I have a modem port as well. I believe the standard software for doing this requires a Super Serial card. I had something setup between my one Apple IIe and either a PC or Mac (can't remember it's been several years). Doing a google search on the subject should turn something up. Not sure how well it will work for a //c+ though... Doesn't a //c+ have a 3.5" drive? If so you might be able to read the floppies on a 68k based Mac. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From vcf at siconic.com Sun Apr 18 06:40:29 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Time and apple prodos In-Reply-To: <9AA53F88-90FA-11D8-96DB-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Apr 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > Apple prodos catalog command shows times and dates for directory > entries, how does one give the computer the starting time and date? You have to run the system utilities for that. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Sun Apr 18 06:59:01 2004 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Apple IIC+ Pointers on getting programs to and from machine. References: <788F5B57-90CB-11D8-A841-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: Hi Ron, Try a google search on: adt apple disk transfer This link gives the best overview (imho) http://www.callapple.org/magazine/2002may/ADT.pdf ADT is the program I used to do something similar last year. There are flavors of it floating around for DOS, Win32 and Linux. The original adt required a true Super Serial Card, but there is also a more generic one floating around (adt.cc) that I had luck using with a Prometheus Versacard to transfer disk images to and from my PC. dc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Hudson" To: "Classic Computers" Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 8:00 PM Subject: Apple IIC+ Pointers on getting programs to and from machine. > > I want to start getting some of the BASIC programs I am writing on > my IIC+ out for sharing, I also want to be able to make use of some > of the disk images out on the internet (apple.asimov...) > > How can I do these things? > > URL's for good web pages? > > Anybody else into Apple II? From brianmahoney at look.ca Sun Apr 18 08:30:10 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Apple IIC+ Pointers on getting programs to and from machine. References: <20040418015625.BDC12B47F0@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <001b01c42549$57d90fe0$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Dunfield" To: Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 9:56 PM Subject: Re: Apple IIC+ Pointers on getting programs to and from machine. > At 17:00 17/04/2004 -0700, you wrote: > > > >I want to start getting some of the BASIC programs I am writing on > >my IIC+ out for sharing, I also want to be able to make use of some > >of the disk images out on the internet (apple.asimov...) > > > >How can I do these things? > > > >URL's for good web pages? > > > >Anybody else into Apple II? > > Hi Ron, > > To transfer images from my Franklin, I built a serial card using a > 6551 UART running 19200 bps, and wrote a set of programs for the > Apple and the PC to transfer images over a serial link - takes about > a minute and a half as I recall to transfer a disk. > > Do you have a serial interface for the IIC+? > > Regards, > -- > dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield > dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com > com Vintage computing equipment collector. > > This may help a bit, not sure if it is for the IIc or not but it is for the II : http://www.oldskool.org/disk2fdi there is a trial version for which you need 2 drives and a pay version for 1 drive. Also there are instructions for a cable you need. bm From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sun Apr 18 08:46:36 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Teletype Cover.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tony, Thanks for the tip on the solvent. Got the TTY unpacked and on my bench now. There does not seem to be any serious damage other than the right rear corner of the cover. If I get done with the Wife's "Honey Dew" list. I will begin powering it up (slowly and carefully) with a complete set of prints at hand. If I get it to work, then I will try your technique on the cover. David. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Apr 18 09:31:16 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Does anyone have National Semiconductor's Appnote AN-359? Message-ID: <20040418143116.GA14480@bos7.spole.gov> I have this INS8073-based board with four TIL-311s, an 8255, a 6116 and a socket for another, an 82S23 PROM, and an MM58174A. The MM58174A is a clock/calendar chip for which I can't seem to get the appnote for. Google reveals an old location at the Nat'l Semi webpage (it has been removed from their appnote dir), and a single reference at http://www.nalanda.nitc.ac.in/industry/appnotes/Natsemi/AN-359.pdf which refuses my connections (could be down, could be blocking U.S. access; not sure which). I don't care if the Digital Library of the Calcutta Technical Institute is up or not; all I'm after is the app note for the MM58174A. Does anyone on the list have the file 'AN-359.pdf'? Thanks, -ethan P.S. - I realize a picture speaks a thousand words, but does anyone recognize the device I've described? It was a gift from someone, years ago. I brought it with me both as a source of TIL-311s and because it's a complete INS8073 SBC. From what I can gather so far, it's pretty close to the Nat'l Semi reference design, down to using a 741-style RS-232 converter for the console interface. The only useful markings on the PCB are "MC-1N REV-A". The layout of the TIL-311s and the four pushbuttons on the corners of the front panel suggest to me some sort of digital timer. There's a 2x5 jumper block on the front that appears to be input power, serial in/out and a few of the CPU flag pins (F2, F3). There's a 1x9 jumper block on the back that seems to be just options, not I/O, but I haven't traced the whole board out yet. P.P.S. - in case you don't recognize the CPU part number, INS8073, it's a microcontroller with Tiny Basic onboard - you wire on a level shifter, an SRAM and an optional ROM, and _bang_, a microcontroller with a built- in development system. It's the same processor used in the RB5X robot. I have had this board for years, and last year, I picked up a few CPU chips on ePay for a few bucks each. They are one of the many classic toys I brought with me to play with through the long, winter night. -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 18-Apr-2004 13:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -70.8 F (-57.1 C) Windchill -94.5 F (-70.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 6.2 kts Grid 074 Barometer 689 mb (10289. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From wacarder at usit.net Sun Apr 18 09:45:57 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks for the tips. The article is excellent. Unfortunately, most examples of the kind of computer I'm looking for (PDP 11/40 or something close) probably found their way to the trash years ago. I wish I had started this quest much sooner. I am in "empty nest" mode now and I have more time to devote to hobbies. If I had been interested and had a place to put the thing, I probably could have obtained the actual college computer that I'm trying to reproduce. It was moved to the junk room in 1989 and the new generation on computer folks on campus scrapped it a few years ago when they decided to get rid of unnecessary computer junk. My retired professor and former director of the computer center and RSTS/E guru says that if I had contacted him about 3 or 4 years ago before he retired, I could have taken home everything that was left from the 11/40 days. He put most of the leftovers in a storage area at school and the new breed of folks threw it away. He did send me all his paperwork relating to the PDP-11 including the price quotes, purchase orders, shipping papers, etc., as well as his proposals to the faculty and trustees in 1968, presenting his case on why the college should move into the computer age. All of this stuff is quite interesting. Hopefully something will turn up in the near future and I can proceed with moving my simulated 11/40 environment (complete with my college's customizations and lots of programs that were developed at my college) to the real hardware. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Vintage Computer Festival [mailto:vcf@siconic.com] Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 5:17 PM To: Ashley Carder; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City On Fri, 16 Apr 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > It seems like the guys that have all the good stuff already just keep > getting more while the latecomers sit here with the simulator running > the old stuff on a PC via Telnet. > > No, I'm not whining..... :-) Ashley, Quit whining :) If you're tenacious enough you'll eventually find what you want. You just have to turn over every stone and look into every dumpster. Do that enough and the Vintage Computer Gawds will smile upon thee one day. Read: http://www.vintage.org/content.php?id=001 -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at ttp://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Apr 18 10:20:02 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? References: <200404162032.NAA11620@floodgap.com> <002c01c423f1$96efb980$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <40829CA2.8080707@tiac.net> Only if you count: Pocket Watches, Firearms, fossils and minerals, old radios, housecats, test equipment and a vast collection of rather expensive parts that fly in close formation known as my airplane (PA-28-180). But other than that, not really. From sastevens at earthlink.net Sun Apr 18 11:15:01 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Does anyone have National Semiconductor's Appnote AN-359? In-Reply-To: <20040418143116.GA14480@bos7.spole.gov> References: <20040418143116.GA14480@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <20040418111501.375af006.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 14:31:16 +0000 Ethan Dicks wrote: > > I have this INS8073-based board with four TIL-311s, an 8255, a 6116 and > a socket for another, an 82S23 PROM, and an MM58174A. The MM58174A is > a clock/calendar chip for which I can't seem to get the appnote for. > Google reveals an old location at the Nat'l Semi webpage (it has been > removed from their appnote dir), and a single reference at > http://www.nalanda.nitc.ac.in/industry/appnotes/Natsemi/AN-359.pdf > which refuses my connections (could be down, could be blocking U.S. > access; not sure which). > Did you try using Google's cached copy of the Nat'l Semi webpage? Sometimes a site takes down a web page but the linkes referenced on Google's cached copy of the page are still valid. I've had this work a few times when looking for old files like you're doing at present. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Apr 18 11:14:43 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Apr 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > Thanks for the tips. The article is excellent. Unfortunately, most > examples of the kind of computer I'm looking for (PDP 11/40 or something > close) probably found their way to the trash years ago. I wish I had That is simply not true, otherwise you wouldn't have a hope of finding one as you seem to. Leave no stone unturned and no idea investigated. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Sun Apr 18 11:30:10 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Does anyone have National Semiconductor's Appnote AN-359? Message-ID: Google's HTML cache version is available at http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:7YLcoB-5lv0J:www.nalanda.nitc.ac.in/ind ustry/appnotes/Natsemi/AN-359.pdf+%22AN-359.pdf but the note itself seems to have been removed from Nat Semi's lists. See .. http://www.national.com/an/AN/ .. for what there is available. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From anheier at owt.com Sun Apr 18 11:51:03 2004 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm and Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Bubble Memory Collection Message-ID: <93E9AD4A-9158-11D8-ADD3-0050E4E0C16B@owt.com> I posted several images from my bubble memory collection. I will be posting better images and more historical information shortly. I have a nice Sharp module too, but couldn't find my image of that. The URL is: http://gallery.owt.com/~anheier/index.src enjoy! Norm From vrs at msn.com Sun Apr 18 11:53:03 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Does anyone have National Semiconductor's Appnote AN-359? References: <20040418143116.GA14480@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: > I don't care if the Digital Library of the Calcutta Technical Institute > is up or not; all I'm after is the app note for the MM58174A. Does anyone > on the list have the file 'AN-359.pdf'? Here you go: http://manuales.elo.utfsm.cl/datasheet/national/pdf/nsc04262.pdf I also saved a copy to disk and can mail it to you if needed. I had to Google for the title of the application note (because the file name is different). Vince From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Sun Apr 18 12:26:20 2004 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <40818F75.1020305@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <001301c4256a$43d59b50$200fa8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> > My wife got me a 5 gallon brew kit from Midwest Supply for > Christmas. > Brewed a Scottish Light Ale, and a Belgian Trappist Ale so far; and both > came out very nicely... Excellent, Dave! Your wife is obviously a loving and right-thinking person. I love the hobby, because you really can share it with friends. When I show most people my old computers, they just nod quizzically or manage to ask silly questions like "why" or "what do you do with them". And that's about the limit of the conversation. Give 'em a homebrew (or two or six), and they'll talk your ears off! :-) --Patrick From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Apr 18 12:24:08 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? References: <001301c4256a$43d59b50$200fa8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> Message-ID: <4082B9B8.90209@jetnet.ab.ca> Patrick wrote: Give 'em a homebrew (or two or six), and > they'll talk your ears off! :-) --Patrick Forget that, cook it on your steak. :) Ben. From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Sun Apr 18 12:46:33 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Time and apple prodos In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <54F61CCA-9160-11D8-9CE0-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Apr 18, 2004, at 4:40 AM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sat, 17 Apr 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > >> Apple prodos catalog command shows times and dates for directory >> entries, how does one give the computer the starting time and date? > > You have to run the system utilities for that. Sellam, I looked all over the menus in my "system utility", I don't see any entries for setting the time. I looked everywhere.. I am running ProDOS 8 V1.9 on an apple IIc+ (built in power supply and 3.25" floppy) perhaps I have an incomplete install? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 18 12:59:46 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Apr 17, 4 11:53:30 pm Message-ID: > > >Is there anything particuarly odd about the bulbs? Projector bulbs in > >general are not that hard to find. > > I'm just concerned about their continued availability. Unless it's something seriously obscure, I'd not worry too much about it. Anyway, is it impossible to modify the projector to use some other bulb? > > > > Of course if you can afford it you can get custom made camera's made > > > out of twin modern 35mm camera's. They take the two camera bodies > > > >Why on earth would you want to use modern cameras??? > > Quality lenses and better shutter speeds! I'm normally limited to a Err... I am not tlaking about the horrible point-n-shoot things made in the late 70's/early 80's. I am talking about quality old cameras. Many of them had a good range of shutter speeds, and the shutter will still give repeatable timing (much more important than accurate times for most work) if it's cleaned and lubricated _properly_ (note that flooding a shutter with lubricant will do a lot more harm than good, I am talking about putting 1 drop of watch oil on the arbors of the escapemnet mechanism, and so on). And some older cameras haev pretty decent lenses. Put it this way : I am sure a good 1950's or 1960's camera will give better resolution than a consumer-grade digitial thing! > max of 100 speed film, though I did shoot 1600 speed once in a cave > in Majorca. I think the max shutter speed is something like 1/200th > of a second. Hmmm.. Most old focal plane shutters will do 1/1000 s. Some will do 1/2000. Leaf shutters are generally limited to 1/500 (and cheaper ones to 1/250 or 1/300), although the Prestor shutter in the Werra does 1/750 (that's one interesting shutter...) But if the only reason you need faster shutter speeds is to be able to use fast film in daylight without stopping the lens down too much (if, indeed it will stop down far enough) then consider using neutral density filters. > > There is a really impressive difference between projected Viewmaster, > Realist and standard 35mm 3D images! I am going to have to try this. > > >There have been several adapters made to take 2 normal camera boddies. > >CZJ made one that takes 2 Werra cameras (that's one Werra accessory I've > >not found yet). > > Is this one of the rigs for holding two standard cameras at the same > time? I think I've seen something like this that puts them base to Yes, and indeed it does hold them base-to-base. > base. I don't think I've ever heard anything about how well they > work though. I'd be concerned about shutter timings unless shooting > still subjects. I've never seen it, so I can't comment on how well it works (I do have at least 2 Werras...) > > > And of course there were those sliding devices where you > >take 2 pictures with a single camera, moving it between exposures. Only > >works for static subjects. > > I've actually been looking for a slide bar to try on some experiments > with a digital camera. They seem to be something of a rare item It shouldn't be that hard to make one. What about the focussing slide from the bottom of a set of close-up bellows, suitably modified (I can't be the only person who digs in the junk box at camera shops looking for items to mofify...) > >The Russians made a thing called a Sputnik. A _triple_ lens reflex > >camera. 2 taking lenses coupled to a viewing lens. Took 6 sterao pairs on > >a 120 roll film. I've never seen one at a sensible price, though. > > I've heard of it, but not seen one. I have a book which gives strip-down and repair instructions for it (along with many other Russian cameras), and I've seen _one_ on sale at a rather high price. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 18 13:07:13 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Teletype Cover.. In-Reply-To: from "David V. Corbin" at Apr 18, 4 09:46:36 am Message-ID: > If I get done with the Wife's "Honey Dew" list. I will begin powering it up > (slowly and carefully) with a complete set of prints at hand. Turn it over by hand first. With the mains disocnnected, turn the motor fan and make sure everything moves freely, without jamming. Trip the clutches as necessary, but you'll have to latch them up by hand at the end of the cycle if you're turning it by hand, since they depend on the speed/inertia of the moving parts to latch, When you're sure noting is jammed, then you can apply power to the motor. I speak from experience, having had a drive belt get totally stripped when some linkage was out of place and jamming the machine. Fortunately it was just the belt, and fortunately I had a spare, but you might not be so lucky! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 18 13:08:11 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Does anyone have National Semiconductor's Appnote AN-359? In-Reply-To: <20040418143116.GA14480@bos7.spole.gov> from "Ethan Dicks" at Apr 18, 4 02:31:16 pm Message-ID: > P.P.S. - in case you don't recognize the CPU part number, INS8073, it's > a microcontroller with Tiny Basic onboard - you wire on a level shifter, IIRC, the CPU is somewhat similar to the SC/MP-II -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 18 13:10:20 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <40829CA2.8080707@tiac.net> from "Bob Shannon" at Apr 18, 4 11:20:02 am Message-ID: > > Only if you count: > > Pocket Watches, Firearms, fossils and minerals, old radios, housecats, You don't collect cats. Cats collect you. Well, at least the ones over here do :-) BTW, the local cats are the only things that can jump on my bench and scatter tiny parts everywhere and not get LARTed :-). THey're far too beautiful to get annoyed with. -tony From vcf at siconic.com Sun Apr 18 13:17:18 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Time and apple prodos In-Reply-To: <54F61CCA-9160-11D8-9CE0-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Apr 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > I looked all over the menus in my "system utility", I don't see any > entries for setting the time. I looked everywhere.. I am running ProDOS > 8 V1.9 on an apple IIc+ (built in power supply and 3.25" floppy) Weird. Try here: http://web.pdx.edu/~heiss/software/up.date.html -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From acme at gbronline.com Sun Apr 18 13:29:14 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City References: Message-ID: <016001c42573$0e3d9480$c54f0945@thegoodw> From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 12:14 PM Subject: RE: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City > Leave no stone unturned and no idea investigated. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Good advice, Sellam! The investigation of ideas may prove hazardous to one's health! ;-) Glen 0/0 From dave04a at dunfield.com Sun Apr 18 13:37:32 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Apple IIC+ Pointers on getting programs to and from machine. Message-ID: <20040418183732.53916B5023@outbox.allstream.net> >This may help a bit, not sure if it is for the IIc or not but it is for the >II : > >http://www.oldskool.org/disk2fdi > >there is a trial version for which you need 2 drives and a pay version for 1 >drive. Also there are instructions for a cable you need. I think there's a freeware program called ADT (Apple Disk Transfer?) which does the job with the standard Apple serial card. When I was looking, there were two versions for two different cards. The only card I had at the time was a software bit-bashed card which was not supported and ran at a max of 300bps (perhaps 1200) - obviously that was not going to cut it, so I built my own card (not a standard apple card either :-( ... And wrote simple programs on each end to transfer the images - worked very well. Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Apr 18 13:46:39 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040418112745.T23733@newshell.lmi.net> On Sat, 17 Apr 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >Why on earth would you want to use modern cameras??? > Quality lenses and better shutter speeds! I'm normally limited to a Do you know of ANY lens made in the last 30 years that can compare with a Summicron? (or even the Nikkor 105?) (Goerz Dagor?) > max of 100 speed film, though I did shoot 1600 speed once in a cave > in Majorca. I think the max shutter speed is something like 1/200th > of a second. My 1938 Leica G (aka IIIA) goes to 1/1000th. The Prontor shutter in the 6" Tessar on my 4x5 Linhof goes to 1/500th. I can get the lens cap on and off of the lens of my >100 year old 8x10 view camera in about 1/2 a second, but at f64, that's PLENTY fast. > There is a really impressive difference between projected Viewmaster, > Realist and standard 35mm 3D images! Why is that? > Is this one of the rigs for holding two standard cameras at the same > time? I think I've seen something like this that puts them base to > base. I don't think I've ever heard anything about how well they > work though. I'd be concerned about shutter timings unless shooting > still subjects. With a dual cable release, such as the one for the Visoflex, it's good enough even for most candid shots of people. Admittedly, it is not suitable for "sports" shots. > >Or the prism attachements that fit on the > >front of the lens and take the 2 images on a single 35mm frame. > I've seen these advertised, they result in what I'd call an odd format. "Standard" half-frame is an "odd format"? In college, some of the guys built a dome with an aluminized mylar interior surface. It worked OK for polarized 3D projection, although MOST of the viewers of the 1/2 hour 3D video fisheye stuff got headaches. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From dave04a at dunfield.com Sun Apr 18 13:47:34 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Need help with Atari 1050 disk system Message-ID: <20040418184734.4313C1EC96B@outbox.allstream.net> Hi Everybody, (Hi doctor Nick) Picked up some more old Atari equipment at a flea market this weekend, among other things, I got a 1050 disk drive. I have not had one of these before. #1) Can anyone tell me the power requirements of this drive? (voltage, polarity, current) - this information should be on the label of the power supply - as you probably guessed, I did not get the supply with the drive (had an Atari computer supply in the box). #2) The box says "Includes DOS 3 Double Density Disk Operating System", but there were no diskettes in the box at all - presumably I need some sort of boot disk... Anyone out there with one that can make a copy or send an image (Can Atari images be read/written on a PC's drive?) Any help would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. From acme at gbronline.com Sun Apr 18 13:58:15 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Anyone have a spare RX23? References: <2684d92674e8.2674e82684d9@ono.com> Message-ID: <017d01c42577$1ba5c080$c54f0945@thegoodw> A friend called recently and said he was going through some computer stuff and found a number of drive enclosures -- did I want any? Since I never seem to have enough to accomodate all of the small machines I've patched drives into, I said "sure." When it arrived I was delighted to find that the enclosure was a TK50Z-FA with a couple of disreputable-looking 5.25" diskette drives in it. I yanked the drives and installed two known-good 5.25" DSDDs and now it's attached to my TS2068 so all is well. This reminded me that my VAXstation 3100 m76 is still lacking a diskette drive. Does anyone on the list have one they'd care to sell me? TIA, Glen 0/0 From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Apr 18 14:55:54 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Err... I am not tlaking about the horrible point-n-shoot things made in >the late 70's/early 80's. I am talking about quality old cameras. Many of >them had a good range of shutter speeds, and the shutter will still give >repeatable timing (much more important than accurate times for most work) >if it's cleaned and lubricated _properly_ (note that flooding a shutter >with lubricant will do a lot more harm than good, I am talking about >putting 1 drop of watch oil on the arbors of the escapemnet mechanism, >and so on). And some older cameras haev pretty decent lenses. > >Put it this way : I am sure a good 1950's or 1960's camera will give >better resolution than a consumer-grade digitial thing! While the older 2D cameras are often very good (my one Nikon lense is older than I am, and the body itself is fairly old), the same can't be said for the 3D cameras that I have experience with. As for the quality of consumer grade digital cameras, some of them are surprisingly good. Though they all seem to insist on recording the images as JPEGs :^( As long as all you want is a 3x5 photo, the Kodak 3.1-Megapixel model we have with the Kodak photo printer actually produces results that are about as good as film based! Though the same couldn't be said if you wanted a larger picture. On the other hand, HP makes a similar printer for their cameras, and it's total junk (worse than their cheap inkjets). For some of what I do with pictures, a digital camera wins hands down, as it offers more than enough resolution, and better quality than I can get from film without spending a small fortune. The Kodak is also able to do some really amazing wizardry with its flash that works surprisingly well. Where the consumer grade cameras are bad is the levels of zoom. I really want one of the nice Nikon SLR digital cameras. > > max of 100 speed film, though I did shoot 1600 speed once in a cave >> in Majorca. I think the max shutter speed is something like 1/200th >> of a second. > >Hmmm.. Most old focal plane shutters will do 1/1000 s. Some will do >1/2000. Leaf shutters are generally limited to 1/500 (and cheaper ones to >1/250 or 1/300), although the Prestor shutter in the Werra does 1/750 >(that's one interesting shutter...) > >But if the only reason you need faster shutter speeds is to be able to >use fast film in daylight without stopping the lens down too much (if, >indeed it will stop down far enough) then consider using neutral density >filters. Here is the max shutter speeds, f-stops, and lens info for the three cameras that I use. The Realist and View-Master are both fairly sharp. View-Master Personal 1/100th f/3.5 to f/16 View-Master Anastigmat (glass, matched), 1:3.5/25 mm, filter thread Series V Kodak 1/200th f/3.5 to f/22 Kodak Anaston Lens (glass, matched), 1:3.5/35 mm. Threaded filter retaining rings for Series V filters Realist 3.5 1/200th f/3.5 to f/22 David White Anastigmat (glass, matched), 1:3.5/35 mm clip-on filters 20 mm > > There is a really impressive difference between projected Viewmaster, >> Realist and standard 35mm 3D images! > >I am going to have to try this. It's loads of fun, for a while I shot a lot of Realist format slides. Sadly my working hours keep me from participating in the local 3D club (meetings are either while I'm working or sleeping). > > I've actually been looking for a slide bar to try on some experiments > > with a digital camera. They seem to be something of a rare item > >It shouldn't be that hard to make one. What about the focussing slide >from the bottom of a set of close-up bellows, suitably modified (I can't >be the only person who digs in the junk box at camera shops looking for >items to mofify...) Junk boxes?!?! I wish! Around here a camera stores are junk, I'm not sure there is a single store that still sells used equipment. With one, maybe two (if it's still around) they're all chain stores. Hmmm, this has been a useful thread, I think next weekend I need to hit the one or two that aren't chain stores looking for a couple of items.... Good Grief, not only is the one store still around, but they actually have a website, they still sell used equipment and do repairs! I definitely think I'm going to have to check them out next weekend! Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Apr 18 14:58:40 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Anyone have a spare RX23? In-Reply-To: <017d01c42577$1ba5c080$c54f0945@thegoodw> References: <2684d92674e8.2674e82684d9@ono.com> <017d01c42577$1ba5c080$c54f0945@thegoodw> Message-ID: >This reminded me that my VAXstation 3100 m76 is still lacking a diskette >drive. Does anyone on the list have one they'd care to sell me? I'm curious. Why on earth do you need a floppy drive on a VAX? I've never used a floppy drive on a VMS system. I either use tape, network, CD, or hard drive to transfer data between systems. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Apr 18 15:09:24 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <20040418112745.T23733@newshell.lmi.net> References: <20040418112745.T23733@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: >On Sat, 17 Apr 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> >Why on earth would you want to use modern cameras??? >> Quality lenses and better shutter speeds! I'm normally limited to a > >Do you know of ANY lens made in the last 30 years that can compare with a >Summicron? (or even the Nikkor 105?) (Goerz Dagor?) Remember, I'm talking about the quality of lenses used in 3D cameras, not in something like a Leica or Nikon. > > There is a really impressive difference between projected Viewmaster, >> Realist and standard 35mm 3D images! > >Why is that? It's a combination of lens quality, overall camera quality, and the size of the resulting slide image. A View-Master slide chip is roughly 1/4th, the size of a 35mm slide. A Realist format is the same height, but a smaller width than a 35mm slide (width actually varies depending on the mounting of the shot). > > >Or the prism attachements that fit on the >> >front of the lens and take the 2 images on a single 35mm frame. >> I've seen these advertised, they result in what I'd call an odd format. > >"Standard" half-frame is an "odd format"? What I've seen results in a "fuzzed" dividing line between the two images, and you have to use what is normally a pretty poor looking viewer. Actually one of these with a little time in Photoshop might be fairly good for people that view their 3D images on computers, which are a surprisingly large number these days. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From allain at panix.com Sun Apr 18 14:49:20 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:55 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? References: <2BA91DBB.775987C0.0000EF7A@aol.com><001501c42432$10cf43c0$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> <20040417024815.4306b677.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <00b401c42582$772053c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I have "Corey Ford's Guide to Thimking Machines" (spelling correct, > people used to love jokes about mis-spellings of IBM's 'Think' motto) > from 1961. A presentation copy from IBM. Good find, a truly great book. You mentioned Datamation. That had "Digits" by Roy Mengot as a regular cartoon column. Another goodie. FYI: see Playboy: Sep-1969, Feb-1967, Jan-1970 for a few more period Computer cartoons. I imagine some people here collect that . John A. From acme at gbronline.com Sun Apr 18 15:21:31 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Apple IIC+ Pointers on getting programs to and from machine. References: <20040418183732.53916B5023@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <019401c42582$bdaca140$c54f0945@thegoodw> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Dunfield" > I think there's a freeware program called ADT (Apple Disk Transfer?) which does > the job with the standard Apple serial card. When I was looking, there were two > versions for two different cards. I've used ADT to perform transfers from a Windows-based PC to an Apple IIe and it works very well with either a standard or Super serial card. Complete docs are included. If the OP can't find it on the 'Net I'll zip it up and send it along. Glen 0/0 From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Apr 18 15:25:36 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <20040416224301.74f34121.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: > I've admired the quality of a lot of the older General Radio > equipment. I have a General Radio 1650 LCR Bridge, and a few other > pieces of their equipment. They produced gear where they made no > compromises in quality. You open up the chassis on old G-R gear and > you see the physics all laid out the way a scientist would do it. > Not like the 'quality engineered out by the MBA cost-cutters' junk > produced at instrument vendors today. This is why General Radio is really no longer with us. Even towards the end, they still produced high quality gear, but did not sell much because they couldn't see to ever cutting corners. When they retreated to the niche of VLSI test equipment, they still made great gear, but most other vendors did as well. It is a real shame, but General Radio was just a little too conservative. > All the new 'digital' stuff will > have dead batteries and be worthless, unless some 'credentialed' > laboratory pushes a few buttons and puts another $150 sticker on it > saying it's 'good' for another two years. Don't mock too much - calibration is a pretty serious business, and is much more than just pushing a couple of buttons. There is actually a big infrastructure in many of the shops. While it seems like an industry based on the "rip off", it is not. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 18 15:23:47 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Apr 18, 4 12:55:54 pm Message-ID: > >Put it this way : I am sure a good 1950's or 1960's camera will give > >better resolution than a consumer-grade digitial thing! > > While the older 2D cameras are often very good (my one Nikon lense is > older than I am, and the body itself is fairly old), the same can't > be said for the 3D cameras that I have experience with. Alas many of the 3D cameras _were_ consumer-grade P&S's. I think the better quality cameras took the prism attachments I mentioned (I've seen one for the Contaflex (couldn't afford it, though), I think Leica may have made one at one time). > > As for the quality of consumer grade digital cameras, some of them > are surprisingly good. Though they all seem to insist on recording > the images as JPEGs :^( As long as all you want is a 3x5 photo, the That's smaller than the _film_ size I want to use. Seriously, I have a few 5*4" sheet film cameras. Perhaps that's why I don't think digital cameras have even marginally useable resolution. > Kodak 3.1-Megapixel model we have with the Kodak photo printer > actually produces results that are about as good as film based! Kodak cammeas had better have improved since the ones I've worked on, then. I can't think of a single Kodak -- including the Retina and Retina Reflex -- that's well built. I can well believe that a Kodak digital camera produces results about as good as a Kodak P&S, but I will not believe that a 3M pixel camera can produce results as good as a _good_ 35mm camera (Leica, Nikon, old Contax, etc), let alone medium or large format film cameras. > Though the same couldn't be said if you wanted a larger picture. On I've enlarged a slide from a cheap-ish 35mm SLR up to 24*16, and it still looks pretty respectable.... > >It shouldn't be that hard to make one. What about the focussing slide > >from the bottom of a set of close-up bellows, suitably modified (I can't > >be the only person who digs in the junk box at camera shops looking for > >items to mofify...) > > Junk boxes?!?! I wish! Around here a camera stores are junk, I'm You need to find a real camera shop... Perhaps I'm lucky, but I know of 4 in the local area that sell second-hand stuff, and even non-working second-hand stuff. The latter is just what I want, as it provides useful bits at a low price. There must be others like me, since I've occasionally not bought some total wreck, decided I should have done, gone back, and found it has been sold. > they actually have a website, they still sell used equipment and do > repairs! I definitely think I'm going to have to check them out next FWIW, doing your own camera repairs is not that hard, and great fun. Keep away from electronic cameras (I speak as somebody who's not normally put off by electroics!) -- they're all custom chips on flexible PCBs, and are painful to work on. But the tools needed to fix old mechanical cameras are not difficult to get or expensive, and if you like tinkering with fine machienry, you'll actually enjoy assembling a leaf shutter (yes, I have done this...) I would recomend reading the 6 books by Thomas Tomosy. I don't agree with everything he says or does, but when you'd read them and practiced on a few cameras [1], then you'll know what you should be doing. Maizenberg's book 'All you need to know about the design and repair of Russian cameras' is worth reading too -- it has the clearest explanation of the Kiev (and therefore Contax II) shutter I have ever read. [1] Note that working on really cheap cameras -- like Kodak Instamatics -- is a painful expeerience. THe parts do not fit well, there are no proper adjustments, etc. Working on better-quality cameras (just about _any_ 35mm SLR, for example) is a lot easier. THere may be more parts, but they fit in placer properly. > weekend! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 18 15:25:55 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Apr 18, 4 01:09:24 pm Message-ID: > >Do you know of ANY lens made in the last 30 years that can compare with a > >Summicron? (or even the Nikkor 105?) (Goerz Dagor?) > > Remember, I'm talking about the quality of lenses used in 3D cameras, > not in something like a Leica or Nikon. I think that's why we have different opinions. I have never really done 3D photography, but have a fair number of normal 2D cameras, just about all of which have better resolution than consumer-grade digital cameras... -tony From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Apr 18 15:29:58 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Does anyone have National Semiconductor's Appnote AN-359? In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Does anyone have National Semiconductor's Appnote AN-359?" (Apr 18, 14:31) References: <20040418143116.GA14480@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <10404182129.ZM6806@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 18, 14:31, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > I don't care if the Digital Library of the Calcutta Technical Institute > is up or not; all I'm after is the app note for the MM58174A. Does anyone > on the list have the file 'AN-359.pdf'? Google doesn't seem to have cached any of the files it references, but you can get it at http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/tmp/nsc05304.pdf -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Apr 18 15:33:21 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Write protect tags In-Reply-To: "Dwight K. Elvey" "Write protect tags" (Apr 16, 18:53) References: <200404170153.SAA06422@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <10404182133.ZM6816@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 16, 18:53, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Well, I just saw a disk with the tag mounted such that > it was diagonally mounted( looks like a little triangle > from each side ). There are no parallel edges to catch > on things as one slides the disk in and out. The > sharp corners that might catch are on the edge of the > disk and unlikely to cause the tag to lift. > Has anyone else tried this? What do you think? I've been doing this for years, with the square Dysan tabs, and it does seem to work better. Most of my WP tabs are getting a bit old, as they came with the original purchases of 5.25" DD disks! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From allain at panix.com Sun Apr 18 15:46:31 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: OT: Other collecting activities? - Digital Stereo camera References: Message-ID: <013201c42586$3b2a74a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > What I'd *really* like to see is someone sell a true digital 3D camera. There was a show down in San Jose about 15 years ago called IIRC "Images in Time and Space" that had some classical Holograms, but more so, a lot of white-light color holograms. They were produced I believe in Japan and USSR and were spectacular. The kind of thing where you had to lift up the picture frame to make sure there wasn't a diarama model box sinking into the wall. I hope a few people on the list were able to see that show. Do people know where the field of holography went since then? Anybody, museums, etc selling white-light holograms? John A. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Apr 18 15:59:23 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Need help with Atari 1050 disk system In-Reply-To: <20040418184734.4313C1EC96B@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dave Dunfield > Sent: 18 April 2004 19:48 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Need help with Atari 1050 disk system > > #1) Can anyone tell me the power requirements of this drive? > (voltage, polarity, current) - this information should be > on the label of > the power supply - as you probably guessed, I did not get > the supply with > the drive (had an Atari computer supply in the box). If you go to www.classiccmp.org or google and search the archives you'll find a thread or 2 on power supplies for the Atari 400/800 - these are the same ones that run the 1050 floppy. The one I have here that recently powered my Atari 400 and 1200XL is marked as 9.5V 1.5A but it's acting up so my DMM won't tell me whether it's centre positive or not. > need some sort > of boot disk... Anyone out there with one that can make a > copy or send an > image (Can Atari images be read/written on a PC's drive?) I don't think so, you might need an SIO2PC cable to do that. Hopefully Curt will be along with more info shortly, as long as he's been allowed back in after his out-of-office faux pas the other week :) Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Apr 18 16:44:07 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: OT: Other collecting activities? - Digital Stereo camera In-Reply-To: <013201c42586$3b2a74a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <013201c42586$3b2a74a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: >Do people know where the field of holography went since then? >Anybody, museums, etc selling white-light holograms? It seems to have pretty much vanished. 15 years ago you could easily buy holograms, I have a few. I've not seen anything really on it since the very early 90's. Though I'll admit I haven't looked hard (but prior to that you didn't have to). The white-light holograms sound *seriously* cool, I've never seen anything like that. Recently someone, I think on the 3D photography list I'm on, was wanting to know where on earth you could buy *any* holograms these days. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Apr 18 17:17:05 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >That's smaller than the _film_ size I want to use. Seriously, I have a >few 5*4" sheet film cameras. Perhaps that's why I don't think digital >cameras have even marginally useable resolution. I don't suppose you happen to know about the availability of materials for a camera that expects to shoot to glass slides? I'll admit I've never really researched it for the simple fact I don't really expect to be able to use that 3D camera. I'm not worried about having to do my own developing, I used to do a lot of that. Though I don't have any place to do it at the moment if it has to be done in a well ventilated location. > > Kodak 3.1-Megapixel model we have with the Kodak photo printer > > actually produces results that are about as good as film based! > >Kodak cammeas had better have improved since the ones I've worked on, >then. I can't think of a single Kodak -- including the Retina and Retina >Reflex -- that's well built. The build quality is my chief concern about the camera. It feels like cheap junk, and I pray that it lasts till we're ready to replace it! I also don't like the unresponsiveness of it, it isn't good for getting quick shots, or several rapid shots. Having said this, it does produce nice 3.1 Megapixel pictures. I wish Nikon would get something like their D70 up to the 11M-pixel range (the D70 is 6.1), just as well they haven't though, it would be a bit to hard to resist. The other thing I don't like about the D70, is it's USB 1.1 (ouch!). >I can well believe that a Kodak digital camera produces results about as >good as a Kodak P&S, but I will not believe that a 3M pixel camera can >produce results as good as a _good_ 35mm camera (Leica, Nikon, old >Contax, etc), let alone medium or large format film cameras. I'm not about to claim that *ANY* digital camera can produce as good of results as a good 35mm camera. The choice between digital and film really depends on several factors, with the use of the picture being probably the key factor. If you're going to web, or DVD (I make Widescreen Anamorphic DVD home movies) then digital is the way to go, and for DVD 1M-pixel is good enough. If you're going to print it in a publication then digital or film will work, but a Pro digital camera is likely the best choice. If you're doing portrait or art photography, film wins hands down, and preferably the medium or large format film. Another factor is cost, for a parent with a young child a digital camera is great because you can afford to shoot tons of photos. In the past year, my wife and I have shot more than 2,500 pictures, we couldn't afford to do that with a film camera! >FWIW, doing your own camera repairs is not that hard, and great fun. Keep I repaired the 50mm lens for my Nikon in the late 80's when I was sitting on a ship in the middle of the Persian Gulf. While I can work on things like that, I prefer not to. For one thing my hands really aren't steady enough any more. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 18 17:37:43 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Apr 18, 4 03:17:05 pm Message-ID: > > >That's smaller than the _film_ size I want to use. Seriously, I have a > >few 5*4" sheet film cameras. Perhaps that's why I don't think digital > >cameras have even marginally useable resolution. > > I don't suppose you happen to know about the availability of > materials for a camera that expects to shoot to glass slides? I'll I am not sure if plates (that's what we call them in the UK) are still made. However, sheet film certainly is, and you can back it with a piece of _flat_ glass or similar. I think there used to be proper converters to load sheet film into plate cameras. > admit I've never really researched it for the simple fact I don't > really expect to be able to use that 3D camera. You'd be suprised. I don't think there's _any_ film-type camera that can't be used somehow, even if not as the manufacturer intended (e.g. by loading sheet film in a darkroom for each shot rather than using a size of roll film that's not been made for decades). > > I'm not worried about having to do my own developing, I used to do a > lot of that. Though I don't have any place to do it at the moment if > it has to be done in a well ventilated location. Becasue film is panchromatic you can't really use a safelight, you have to work in total darkness (at least for most common materials). It's therefore best to load the film into a light-tight tank and pour the chemicals in the light. THis means that having good ventilation in the darkroom is not that important. > > > > Kodak 3.1-Megapixel model we have with the Kodak photo printer > > > actually produces results that are about as good as film based! > > > >Kodak cammeas had better have improved since the ones I've worked on, > >then. I can't think of a single Kodak -- including the Retina and Retina > >Reflex -- that's well built. > > The build quality is my chief concern about the camera. It feels > like cheap junk, and I pray that it lasts till we're ready to replace Which with the rate that new digital cameras come out over here only has to be until the end of next week ;-) > it! I also don't like the unresponsiveness of it, it isn't good for This is a common moan... > I'm not about to claim that *ANY* digital camera can produce as good > of results as a good 35mm camera. The choice between digital and > film really depends on several factors, with the use of the picture Agreed. I am quite happy to accept that digital cameras have their uses (press work, when you have to send a picture across the world in seconds, is an obvious one). They're just not what _I_ want for my photography. > camera is likely the best choice. If you're doing portrait or art > photography, film wins hands down, and preferably the medium or large > format film. Ditto for architecture (my main non-scientific photographic interest) and scientific work. > > Another factor is cost, for a parent with a young child a digital > camera is great because you can afford to shoot tons of photos. In NO!. Many times I've read letters and articles in photographic magazines that point out that because you can take dozens of pictures with a digital camera and not worry about the cost, then delete the duds later, you don't bother to think about each picture, you don't bother to compose it properly, look for the best viewpoint, and so on. The result is that _all_ your pictures are poor. There's also no real incentive to learn to do things properly if you can just delete the misexposed (etc) shots. You don't have to learn to get the exposure right first time. Conversely, when you use large format film (which is more expensive per shot, of course), you spend a long time setting up the camera for each picture (for those who've never used such a camera, not only do you have the normal focusisg, aperture and shutter speed controls, you also have the 'movements' where you can swing and shift the film holder and lens to correct for having to tilt the camera (say you're photograpging a tower and have to tilt the camera upwards to get it all in the frame, the tower will appaer to lean in the photograph), to increase the effective depth of field, and so o), you get virtually 100% good photographs once you've learnt to use said camera correctly. > I repaired the 50mm lens for my Nikon in the late 80's when I was > sitting on a ship in the middle of the Persian Gulf. While I can I prefer to do this on stable land :-) > work on things like that, I prefer not to. For one thing my hands > really aren't steady enough any more. Each to his own, I suppose... However, don't believe the commonly-stated idea that you can't work on your own camera. They're _not_ that complicated -- certainly if you can assemble an ASR33, or do a complete disk drive alignment, or something like that, you'll not find most cameras any worse. -tony From allain at panix.com Sun Apr 18 17:54:33 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: OT: Other collecting activities? - Digital Stereo camera References: <013201c42586$3b2a74a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <019c01c42598$1df3f340$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > The white-light holograms sound *seriously* cool, > I've never seen anything like that. Every few months I re-try some Google searches and "Images in Time and Space" is one of them. According to the news, those images were so good that they had a problem with museum staff stealing some of the better ones. If I can remember/extrapolate the technology of a white light hologram it involves three exposures taken in dim Laser light, with ASA 1 film, in a vibration free environment, and then the three images have to be reassembled *somehow* by hand. Sounds like one man-week per picture or thereabouts, so each might've been worth thousands. Trouble with finding holograms is that they invented the foil hologram (see March 1984 National Geographic Cover) that didn't require laser light to see and that became the more popular way to produce&sell them, and they look lower quality, to me anyway. Don't know if LED lasers (yeah, the $3.00 ones at Wal-Mart ) are any good for holography. I heard that the length of the Laser device effected average coherence. With LED's being maybe 200x shorter than a neon tube that might be serious. I think that had to do with the fact that lasers build and then release a standing wave, where length matters. John A. From dave04a at dunfield.com Sun Apr 18 18:10:29 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Need help with Atari 1050 disk system Message-ID: <20040418231029.4E88DB4C48@outbox.allstream.net> Hi Adrian, >> #1) Can anyone tell me the power requirements of this drive? >If you go to www.classiccmp.org or google and search the archives you'll >find a thread or 2 on power supplies for the Atari 400/800 - these are the >same ones that run the 1050 floppy. The one I have here that recently >powered my Atari 400 and 1200XL is marked as 9.5V 1.5A but it's acting up so >my DMM won't tell me whether it's centre positive or not. Thanks for the info - I did a bit of looking and found several references once I mentioned "Atari 400" - turns out the supplies are AC, which probably explains why your DMM is having trouble determining the polarity. >> need some sort >> of boot disk... Anyone out there with one that can make a >> copy or send an >> image (Can Atari images be read/written on a PC's drive?) > >I don't think so, you might need an SIO2PC cable to do that. Hopefully Curt >will be along with more info shortly, as long as he's been allowed back in >after his out-of-office faux pas the other week :) Ok. I'll do some more looking around as well. Do you know if there are any disk I/O functions build into the ROMs of the computer and/or drive (like the C64), or do I absolutely need a boot disk in order to make the drive do anything (so I can figure out if it works or not)? Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Apr 18 18:22:28 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Need help with Atari 1050 disk system In-Reply-To: <20040418231029.4E88DB4C48@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dave Dunfield > Sent: 19 April 2004 00:10 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Need help with Atari 1050 disk system > > Thanks for the info - I did a bit of looking and found > several references once I mentioned "Atari 400" - turns out > the supplies are AC, which probably explains why your DMM is > having trouble determining the polarity. Interesting - the one I've got here has DC markings on it! Now I'm confused. > Ok. I'll do some more looking around as well. Do you know if > there are any disk I/O functions build into the ROMs of the > computer and/or drive (like the C64), or do I absolutely need > a boot disk in order to make the drive do anything (so I can > figure out if it works or not)? The only Atari machine that didn't have DOS built in out of the box was the 400. All the rest from the 800 upwards supported disks because they had the extra memory and ROM commands. It's a while since I've played with any of my 1050s though, but I know where the disks are if nobody with easier access comes up first. Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Apr 18 18:20:37 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? References: Message-ID: <40830D45.4010809@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: >>I don't suppose you happen to know about the availability of >>materials for a camera that expects to shoot to glass slides? I'll > I am not sure if plates (that's what we call them in the UK) are still > made. However, sheet film certainly is, and you can back it with a piece > of _flat_ glass or similar. I think there used to be proper converters to > load sheet film into plate cameras. I thought the cameras that used glass slides, the photographer coated the plates with the light sensitive stuff before use. I did read somewhere that one of the early photographic process used the same process as XEROX copiers. I wonder if nowdays that could be improved on, as it the time over 100 years ago it gave better quality photographs. PS. I think a GOOD B&W photograph in many ways better than a quick blurry grainy color photo. From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Sun Apr 18 18:33:15 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Apple IIC+ Pointers on getting programs to and from machine. In-Reply-To: <019401c42582$bdaca140$c54f0945@thegoodw> References: <20040418183732.53916B5023@outbox.allstream.net> <019401c42582$bdaca140$c54f0945@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Apr 18, 2004, at 1:21 PM, Glen Goodwin wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Dunfield" > >> I think there's a freeware program called ADT (Apple Disk Transfer?) >> which > does >> the job with the standard Apple serial card. When I was looking, there > were two >> versions for two different cards. > > I've used ADT to perform transfers from a Windows-based PC to an Apple > IIe > and it works very well with either a standard or Super serial card. > Complete docs are included. > > If the OP can't find it on the 'Net I'll zip it up and send it along. I've found a pdf with some instructions already. does it work both directions? Will it put a .dsk file back onto a blank floppy? > > Glen > 0/0 > From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sun Apr 18 18:46:30 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40831356.6070802@gifford.co.uk> Tony Duell wrote: > That's smaller than the _film_ size I want to use. Seriously, I have a > few 5*4" sheet film cameras. Perhaps that's why I don't think digital > cameras have even marginally useable resolution. Tony, I have a 5*4" enlarger here that's, um, surplus to requirements. I used it a few years ago for 6*7cm enlargements, but I don't have that camera any more. Do you want the enlarger? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sun Apr 18 18:50:48 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <408121C7.C282FD7@brothom.nl> References: <2BA91DBB.775987C0.0000EF7A@aol.com> <40805244.9090004@gifford.co.uk> <408121C7.C282FD7@brothom.nl> Message-ID: <40831458.9020205@gifford.co.uk> Bert Thomas wrote: >> http://www.gifford.co.uk/~coredump/oldsad.htm > John, I don't understand this description of the knife switch: ... > It seems to me that the radio is connected to earth instead of the aerial... You are absolutely correct! I've worded it all wrong on that web page, and it does indeed imply that the radio gets earthed via the knife switch. The antenna is, in fact, connected to the centre terminals of the switch, and the radio to the left-hand side (right-hand side is earthed). Then, the antenna is switched from radio (left) to earth (right) when not in use. Thanks for taking the trouble to point that out! I'll fix the web page next time I update the site. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Apr 18 19:06:21 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > The build quality is my chief concern about the camera. It feels >> like cheap junk, and I pray that it lasts till we're ready to replace > >Which with the rate that new digital cameras come out over here only has >to be until the end of next week ;-) True, but I'd like to wait at least another couple years before I replace it. By that time I'm hoping that the High End models are to such a point where I feel that it is worth buying one. > > Another factor is cost, for a parent with a young child a digital >> camera is great because you can afford to shoot tons of photos. In > >NO!. Many times I've read letters and articles in photographic magazines >that point out that because you can take dozens of pictures with a >digital camera and not worry about the cost, then delete the duds later, You raise very valid points (that I've cut), however, the photo's I'm talking about are the ones you don't have time to compose. The ones where you might have time to quickly grab the camera and shoot the picture, but only if you're lucky. A slightly off-key counter argument to this might be that a Digital Camera can be a good learning tool for a person, in that it doesn't cost anything to learn what does work well. Thus allowing them to shoot better pictures with both digital and film cameras (the problem with this argument is that film cameras react differently). I have taken some time to learn how to shoot good pictures with the Kodak we have, though not as much as I should, and where possible I do attempt to get the best picture possible. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Apr 18 19:07:21 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: References: <20040418112745.T23733@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20040418170551.N30547@newshell.lmi.net> > >Do you know of ANY lens made in the last 30 years that can compare with a > >Summicron? (or even the Nikkor 105?) (Goerz Dagor?) On Sun, 18 Apr 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Remember, I'm talking about the quality of lenses used in 3D cameras, > not in something like a Leica or Nikon. OK I was thinking of two Leicas bolted together, as that's the only still system that I have duplicated of. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun Apr 18 19:37:02 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: PDP-11 price guides Message-ID: <200404181937.02278.pat@computer-refuge.org> Has anyone worked on, or thought about working on, a "price guide" specifically for PDP-11 (or PDP-8, or VAX) hardware? I know of Michael Nadeu's book for microcomputers (which I keep meaning to buy), but this is really a different realm of things, as you can configure (for example) a PDP-11/23 in a whole lot more ways than you could with a C-64. I've thought "hmm, this would really be handy" a few times before, but haven't had much time to sit down and work on it. It'd be nice if I could keep it up to date, and use multiple data sources (not just past marketplace.vintage.org sales), including eBay and semi-private sales. Also, a "rarity" quantity of some sort would be useful, and could just be "very rare" for, say, the preverbial 11/74 (the one that's supposedly 2 CPUs), to "common" for an 11/23. Thoughts? Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Apr 18 20:12:16 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: PDP-11 price guides In-Reply-To: <200404181937.02278.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200404181937.02278.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <20040419011216.GK11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Patrick Finnegan, from writings of Sun, Apr 18, 2004 at 07:37:02PM -0500: > Has anyone worked on, or thought about working on, a "price guide" > specifically for PDP-11 (or PDP-8, or VAX) hardware? I know of Michael What for? As we all know, they're typically worth the price of what it costs to get to them, transport them home and repair them, unless one gets suckered into paying a higher price. The last thing that we need is a document supporting the grossly inflated prices that some people are willing to pay for such systems. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Apr 18 20:22:15 2004 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: PDP-11 price guides In-Reply-To: <20040419011216.GK11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: Well... the last one I bought (11/44, RSX-11M+, a pair of RA-80s, 9 track deck, etc, etc, etc) was about $110,000 (1983 dollars). What Mr. Davis said. Jim On Sunday, Apr 18, 2004, at 18:12 US/Pacific, R. D. Davis flung into the ether: > > What for? As we all know, they're typically worth the price of what > it costs to get to them, transport them home and repair them, unless > one gets suckered into paying a higher price. The last thing that we > need is a document supporting the grossly inflated prices that some > people are willing to pay for such systems. From allain at panix.com Sun Apr 18 20:24:42 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? References: Message-ID: <0a7501c425ad$18410220$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > A slightly off-key counter argument to this might be that a Digital > Camera can be a good learning tool for a person, in that it doesn't > cost anything to learn what does work well. Thus allowing them to > shoot better pictures with both digital and film cameras (the problem > with this argument is that film cameras react differently). Not much different. I like this argument. I tried "Paint with light" photos when I was a kid, the ones where you walk some small light around in a dark room, camera shutter left open. Eight pictures from a Polaroid might be $12. Fifty pictures from a DigiCam could be 10? wear and tear on the cam & rechargeable batteries. Seems like an easy comparison. John A. From allain at panix.com Sun Apr 18 20:26:13 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: PDP-11 price guides References: <200404181937.02278.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <0a7601c425ad$4e3ce4c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Has anyone worked on, or thought about working on, a > "price guide"... ... Thoughts? I think PDP-11's, non-QBus, are damn rare today and will only get more so in the future. Still I was able to get one the other day for $50 totally by chance. That's supply. I don't have a good idea as to demand. I suspect that most prople who wanted one have one by now. There will be exceptions. Like countries deprived of their own computer manufacturing. They tend to hold on to old stuff forever. Trouble with Unibus PDP11's is they're just a tad too heavy for one person to carry, especially when that one person is someone wanting to set up a table at the flea market. I have seen maybe 2 Unibus PDP11's after viewing maybe 20,000 flea market tables in over 10 years. John A. From alhartman at yahoo.com Sun Apr 18 20:26:46 2004 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 8, Issue 33 In-Reply-To: <200404182343.i3INgqJ9048054@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040419012646.66088.qmail@web13425.mail.yahoo.com> > From: "Glen Goodwin" > Subject: Anyone have a spare RX23? > > A friend called recently and said he was going > through some computer stuff and found a number of > drive enclosures -- did I want any? Since I > never seem to have enough to accomodate all of the\ > small machines I've patched drives into, I > said "sure." When it arrived I was delighted to > find thatthe enclosure was a TK50Z-FA with a couple > of disreputable-looking 5.25" diskette drives in > it. I yanked the drives and installed two > known-good 5.25" DSDDs and now it's attached to my > TS2068 so all is well. Very cool! What controller are you using on the TS2068? Just curious... - Al __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun Apr 18 20:27:35 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: PDP-11 price guides In-Reply-To: <20040419011216.GK11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <200404181937.02278.pat@computer-refuge.org> <20040419011216.GK11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <200404182027.35142.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Sunday 18 April 2004 20:12, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe Patrick Finnegan, from writings of Sun, Apr 18, 2004 at > > 07:37:02PM -0500: > > Has anyone worked on, or thought about working on, a "price guide" > > specifically for PDP-11 (or PDP-8, or VAX) hardware? I know of > > Michael > > What for? As we all know, they're typically worth the price of what > it costs to get to them, transport them home and repair them, unless > one gets suckered into paying a higher price. The last thing that we > need is a document supporting the grossly inflated prices that some > people are willing to pay for such systems. Because there are some people willing to pay money for machines. Nearly every machine I'd stick the "really cool" label on, I paid for. Some things are hard to find, and even harder to get anyone to give up. UNIBUS '11s are a good example. And, I'd disagree that these things don't have any value. The have value, if not for any better reason than for insurance purposes. Also, saying they aren't worth any more than it costs to transport them hurts in the long run. There's people that send this stuff to scrappers because they think it's worthless. If I can keep one more functional machine out of the hands of a scrapper, it's a worthwile thing I've done. As well, in the long run, if more machines are kept in circulation, they'll end up being "worth less" (not worthless), and it'll be easier for people that have some interest to acquire one to play around with. I still haven't ever seen an 11/70 in the flesh and blood. I never saw an 11/780 until my freshman year here when Purdue was trashing one. If I'd have known then what I know now about where things go, I'd have saved that one. I don't care that I don't have it as much as *no one* has it. I'd rather see this stuff get preserved than get far enough down the train to end up in a dumpster or in a scrap yard. Sure, it might be a little more expensive, but it seems worth it to me. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Apr 18 21:33:00 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: PDP-11 price guides In-Reply-To: References: <20040419011216.GK11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20040419023300.GL11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Jim Arnott, from writings of Sun, Apr 18, 2004 at 06:22:15PM -0700: > Well... the last one I bought (11/44, RSX-11M+, a pair of RA-80s, 9 > track deck, etc, etc, etc) was about $110,000 (1983 dollars). However... surely it's been written off by now as fully depreciated, and despite what the residual, or scrap, value is for equipment such as that, one often has to pay to have it dismantled and hauled away. Hence, anyone who will take such an available system away for free is offering the owner an excellent deal. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Apr 18 21:25:55 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Does anyone have National Semiconductor's Appnote AN-359? In-Reply-To: References: <20040418143116.GA14480@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <20040419022555.GC23365@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Apr 18, 2004 at 07:08:11PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > > P.P.S. - in case you don't recognize the CPU part number, INS8073, it's > > a microcontroller with Tiny Basic onboard - you wire on a level shifter, > > IIRC, the CPU is somewhat similar to the SC/MP-II Quite similar... the 8073 is like the 8060, but with Tiny Basic onboard rather than on an outboard ROM. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 19-Apr-2004 02:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -71 F (-57.2 C) Windchill -71.09 F (-57.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 3.4 kts Grid 091 Barometer 689.6 mb (10266 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Apr 18 21:36:41 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: PDP-11 price guides In-Reply-To: <0a7601c425ad$4e3ce4c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <200404181937.02278.pat@computer-refuge.org> <0a7601c425ad$4e3ce4c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20040419023641.GM11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe John Allain, from writings of Sun, Apr 18, 2004 at 09:26:13PM -0400: > someone wanting to set up a table at the flea market. I have > seen maybe 2 Unibus PDP11's after viewing maybe 20,000 > flea market tables in over 10 years. Sometimes you've got to climb into the large trucks behind some of the tables and scrounge around for the good stuff hidden beneath boxes, big piles of cables, etc. that the vendors didn't feel like unloading from the trucks. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Apr 18 21:39:53 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040419023953.GE23365@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Apr 18, 2004 at 12:55:54PM -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote: > As for the quality of consumer grade digital cameras, some of them > are surprisingly good. Though they all seem to insist on recording > the images as JPEGs :^( Not mine - if I want to chew up memory, I can save as raw or as TIFF. I think all of the 4MP+ cameras do TIFF. > For some of what I do with pictures, a digital camera wins hands > down, as it offers more than enough resolution, and better quality > than I can get from film without spending a small fortune. I have both kinds with me - a Pentax P3 with a stable of lenses (50mm, 30mm-70mm, 70mm-300mm and 19mm), and an Olympus E-10 with an equivalent 35mm-140mm plus a 1.5x magnifier. > Where the consumer grade cameras are bad is the levels of zoom. I > really want one of the nice Nikon SLR digital cameras. I'm happy with my E-10; it was $600, factory refurbed. The zoom is *mechanical* (I have had issues with all these electric zooms giving me grief in the cold), and has a good range for most uses. The other really nice feature is that I have the "bulb" attachment. I was photographing the Aurora Australis yesterday with a 30 sec exposure. The other guys here with digital cameras are limited to 16 seconds, which is not enough. Incidentally, that's why I have the 19mm lens on my 35mm camera - big sky pix. My boss is into 3D photography. Personally, I'd love to get one of those old Russian slit-type panoramic cameras; that's where _my_ real interest is - formats with proportions other than 3x5. -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 19-Apr-2004 02:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -71.2 F (-57.4 C) Windchill -82.40 F (-63.6 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 4.6 kts Grid 082 Barometer 689.5 mb (10270 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Apr 18 21:44:01 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Anyone have a spare RX23? In-Reply-To: References: <2684d92674e8.2674e82684d9@ono.com> <017d01c42577$1ba5c080$c54f0945@thegoodw> Message-ID: <20040419024401.GF23365@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Apr 18, 2004 at 12:58:40PM -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I'm curious. Why on earth do you need a floppy drive on a VAX? I've > never used a floppy drive on a VMS system. I either use tape, > network, CD, or hard drive to transfer data between systems. We had an RUX50 on our 11/750 at Software Results (I still have it) because we needed to send our product to our customers with MicroVAX-IIs who didn't have TK50. I'll admit that today, ethernet interfaces are plentiful, as are tape drives, but some of my own machines are limited to floppy or serial port (i.e., Kermit). The VAXstation 3100, though, should have a network interface. Perhaps it's like when I got my first SPARCstation, ten years ago... it didn't come with a floppy drive, so I bought one - with shipping I think it cost about 10% of what I paid for the workstation. I think I used it twice. :-( Now, of course, they cost a lot more to ship than they cost to aquire. I have several in a box. At the time, however, my *other* machines didn't all have network interfaces. I've since corrected _that_. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 19-Apr-2004 02:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -71.8 F (-57.7 C) Windchill -81.7 F (-63.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 4.4 kts Grid 096 Barometer 689.5 mb (10270 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 18 21:42:18 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Apr 18, 4 05:06:21 pm Message-ID: > >NO!. Many times I've read letters and articles in photographic magazines > >that point out that because you can take dozens of pictures with a > >digital camera and not worry about the cost, then delete the duds later, > > You raise very valid points (that I've cut), however, the photo's I'm > talking about are the ones you don't have time to compose. The ones > where you might have time to quickly grab the camera and shoot the > picture, but only if you're lucky. Most of the pictures you take (or should be taking) when you're starting out can be composed. Yes, you want to try some action shots, but you should try static subjects as well. > > A slightly off-key counter argument to this might be that a Digital > Camera can be a good learning tool for a person, in that it doesn't > cost anything to learn what does work well. Thus allowing them to Maybe, maybe not. It'll work well if you have the discipline to use it properly. If not, then you'll never bother to learn to do it properly, and will never take a good picture. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 18 21:28:06 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <40830D45.4010809@jetnet.ab.ca> from "ben franchuk" at Apr 18, 4 05:20:37 pm Message-ID: > I thought the cameras that used glass slides, the photographer coated > the plates with the light sensitive stuff before use. With the some proceses -- the one nicknamed 'wet plate' for example -- yes you did. The checmicals had to be wet during the exposure. But the 'dry plate' processes used pre-coated plates, you used to be able to buy these ready-made (in fact when I made the hologram I mentioned a couple of days ago, the sensitive material was a very slow (and hence fine grain) plate. > I did read somewhere that one of the early photographic process used > the same process as XEROX copiers. I wonder if nowdays that could be I find that hard to believe, the Xerox process is essentially electrostatic. I've never heard of it being used in a normal camera. > improved on, as it the time over 100 years ago it gave better quality > photographs. > PS. I think a GOOD B&W photograph in many ways better than a quick > blurry grainy color photo. Depedns on what it's for. If it's to remind me which order to connect a bundle of wires, then I'll want a colour picture ;-) More seriously, I agree with you in general. Good B&W pictures _are_ good. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 18 21:29:36 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <40831356.6070802@gifford.co.uk> from "John Honniball" at Apr 19, 4 00:46:30 am Message-ID: > > Tony Duell wrote: > > That's smaller than the _film_ size I want to use. Seriously, I have a > > few 5*4" sheet film cameras. Perhaps that's why I don't think digital > > cameras have even marginally useable resolution. > > Tony, I have a 5*4" enlarger here that's, um, surplus to > requirements. I used it a few years ago for 6*7cm enlargements, Argh!.. I've just bought such an instrument (I did buy a good one, I hope, a DeVere 504 with Dichormat Mk4 colour head). > but I don't have that camera any more. Do you want the enlarger? Alas I don't think I have space for another one... If you seriously want to find it a home, let me have details and I'll see what I can do. -tony From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Apr 18 21:52:20 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: PDP-11 price guides In-Reply-To: <200404182027.35142.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200404181937.02278.pat@computer-refuge.org> <20040419011216.GK11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <200404182027.35142.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <20040419025220.GN11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Patrick Finnegan, from writings of Sun, Apr 18, 2004 at 08:27:35PM -0500: > Because there are some people willing to pay money for machines. Nearly > every machine I'd stick the "really cool" label on, I paid for. Some > things are hard to find, and even harder to get anyone to give up. > UNIBUS '11s are a good example. Hmmm... and humph! See below... > And, I'd disagree that these things don't have any value. The have > value, if not for any better reason than for insurance purposes. Also, > saying they aren't worth any more than it costs to transport them hurts See, this is what happens when collectors start poking their noses into hobbies that were once inexpensive. Prices start to go up and then only the collectors with deep pockets filled with money that comes loose from them too easily, who are more interested in long-term profits than fun, can afford the toys. If I was earning several billion dollars a year, I'd still refuse to pay high prices for old computer systems, since that would take the fun out of the hobby. > in the long run. There's people that send this stuff to scrappers > because they think it's worthless. If I can keep one more functional Convincing people that this equipment might be _wanted_ by some people, and convincing them to let hobbyists preserve it for good reason, would be the better solution than making them think it has some ridiculously high value. That eliminate the little variable called greed that's bound to creep into the equation. > saved that one. I don't care that I don't have it as much as *no one* > has it. I'd rather see this stuff get preserved than get far enough > down the train to end up in a dumpster or in a scrap yard. Sure, it Surely most of us feel that way... > might be a little more expensive, but it seems worth it to me. ...but I, for one, don't feel that needless inflation has to come into play in order for equipment to be preserved. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From allain at panix.com Sun Apr 18 21:54:10 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: PDP-11 price guides References: <200404181937.02278.pat@computer-refuge.org><0a7601c425ad$4e3ce4c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <20040419023641.GM11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <0e0601c425b9$974b79e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Sometimes you've got to climb into the large trucks... Now I see the trucks off from their Garages. John A. From yakowenk at yahoo.com Sun Apr 18 21:58:45 2004 From: yakowenk at yahoo.com (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: TRS-80 model 12 Message-ID: <20040419025845.99674.qmail@web60701.mail.yahoo.com> I've got a bashed up TRS-80 model 12 sans keyboard, so... Can anybody out there give me the specs for the keyboard connector? Looks like a 5 pin DIN, I guess a serial connection of some kind. I need both the wiring (which pin is which) and the comm specs (baud rate, etc.). It is probably the same as the keyboard for the model 2 and model 16, in case that helps. Alternatively, if anybody has an appropriate keyboard to spare, that would be great too! Also, while I'm asking, can anybody recommend a kind of glue for putting the shell back together? The poor thing took some damage in shipping. It looks like some kind of resin. Acetone did not seem to have any effect on the stuff. I've put a few bits together with "super glue" (cyanoacrylate), but have doubts about it holding very well. Thanks! Bill. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Apr 18 22:09:48 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040418195826.N33150@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 19 Apr 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > With the some proceses -- the one nicknamed 'wet plate' for example -- > yes you did. The checmicals had to be wet during the exposure. But the > 'dry plate' processes used pre-coated plates, you used to be able to buy > these ready-made (in fact when I made the hologram I mentioned a couple > of days ago, the sensitive material was a very slow (and hence fine > grain) plate. A friend of mine used to do sandbox holography. She used to make plates occasionally, but more often, she would regularly buy plates at the only "professional" photo store. One day, they had a "new" emulsion. When she asked about how it would be for holography, the clerk told her that he had no idea, but that they had a customer who "knows all about that stuff" and that he would find out. Sure enough, when she got home, there was a message on her answering machine: "Hi, this is Alpha Photo. We have a question,..." I would assume that that happens to Tony sometimes. BTW, some of my older 4x5 film holders take glass plates, and have little sleeves in them to hold sheet film in place of the glass plates. Those sleeves seem to be almost identical to the film sleeves in the multi-sheet holders. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Apr 18 22:11:47 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: PDP-11 price guides In-Reply-To: <20040419025220.GN11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: > See, this is what happens when collectors start poking their noses > into hobbies that were once inexpensive. Prices start to go up and > then only the collectors with deep pockets filled with money that > comes loose from them too easily... You have just described the evolution of every hobby that involves collecting something. EVERY hobby - even ones as odd as collecting barbed wire, McDonald's promotions, flagpole finials, ice cream scoops, and airline timetables. > ...who are more interested in long-term > profits than fun, can afford the toys. I am really getting sick and tired of people that think that the rich collectors are ONLY in it for the money. A HUGE MAJORITY ARE NOT. I have repeated this over and over again on this list, but SOME PEOPLE JUST DON'T GET IT. I personally know quite a few off the big rollers in the computer and radio collecting fields and VERY few are looking at collecting as an investment. They love the radios and machines just as much as everyone else - just MAYBE they WORKED A LITTLE HARDER to grow their collection. > Convincing people that this equipment might be _wanted_ by some > people, and convincing them to let hobbyists preserve it for good > reason, would be the better solution than making them think it has > some ridiculously high value. Money talks. Its a basic rule of life. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Apr 18 22:45:06 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: PDP-11 price guides In-Reply-To: <0e0601c425b9$974b79e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <20040419023641.GM11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <0e0601c425b9$974b79e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20040419034506.GO11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe John Allain, from writings of Sun, Apr 18, 2004 at 10:54:10PM -0400: > > Sometimes you've got to climb into the large trucks... > > Now I see the trucks off from their Garages. Excellent! :-) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Apr 18 22:39:45 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040418202320.J33150@newshell.lmi.net> On Sun, 18 Apr 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > Alas many of the 3D cameras _were_ consumer-grade P&S's. I think the > better quality cameras took the prism attachments I mentioned (I've seen > one for the Contaflex (couldn't afford it, though), I think Leica may > have made one at one time). Leica/Leitz made the "stereoly" beamsplitter. http://www.p4a.com/itemsummary/79816.htm also Leitz CANADA made the Stemar dual lens: http://www.halfhill.com/shuchat7.html and there were after-market devices: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=29965&item=3809758773 (currently at $69.95) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Apr 18 22:36:03 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? References: Message-ID: <40834923.1060906@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: > I find that hard to believe, the Xerox process is essentially > electrostatic. I've never heard of it being used in a normal camera. How ever they use a lamp to scan photocopies, and I belive that is rich in ultra-violet. A pin-hole Camera works great for UV. Ben. From zmerch at 30below.com Sun Apr 18 22:42:29 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: References: <40830D45.4010809@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040418232325.04a7fae0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Tony Duell may have mentioned these words: > > I thought the cameras that used glass slides, the photographer coated > > the plates with the light sensitive stuff before use. > >With the some proceses -- the one nicknamed 'wet plate' for example -- >yes you did. The checmicals had to be wet during the exposure. But the >'dry plate' processes used pre-coated plates, you used to be able to buy >these ready-made (in fact when I made the hologram I mentioned a couple >of days ago, the sensitive material was a very slow (and hence fine >grain) plate. > > > I did read somewhere that one of the early photographic process used > > the same process as XEROX copiers. I wonder if nowdays that could be > >I find that hard to believe, the Xerox process is essentially >electrostatic. I've never heard of it being used in a normal camera. I don't -- I believe it's called Kirlian photography, and it works by passing a large amount of electricity [I don't know if it's voltage or current based] thru the object to be photographed, with an electrostatic-sensitive plate or paper close to that object. The OP never said that normal cameras had to be involved, only that that there was an early electrostatic photographic method. I think the process was discovered in the '30s or '40s... I remember an article where a person was photographing coins & other household items using a battery & fax paper... >Depedns on what it's for. If it's to remind me which order to connect a >bundle of wires, then I'll want a colour picture ;-) Which, of course, is another *extremely* good use for a digital camera - keeping a record of disassembly of an item, especially if you've never had one apart before. BTW, when you mentioned home film-based camera repair, you may have never attempted to replace the shutter in a Canon T50 camera. (My wife put her finger thru the shutter of mine, 2 weeks before vacation [holidays]). I have, and I'm not too big a man to admit that I'm not able to do it, but at least I tried. ;-) I bought a broken T50 on ePay for $12, and used my Epson digital camera to record all the parts as I took apart my "test case" - turns out replacing the shutter mech. in that unit is, well, near impossible. It's at the *very core* of the camera, and getting all the springs & whatnot correct is not anything I could have handled, and get the camera back together in any semblance of working order. However, if I could have, I would have had a perfect sequence of images to tell me where every part went.[1] Another really good use for [admittedly very-high end] digital cameras: Sports Photography. Sports shooters generally toss a lot of photos anyway, and in the long run it can be a lot less expensive with... say... a Nikon D1H (which I've had the pleasure to use - at 3.1 megapixels, it will take a very nice 8x10). Granted, with a couple of lenses, you'll be about $7000 poorer, but hey... ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger [1] Unlike many of my brethren, I do not subscribe to the notion that "No job is complete unless you end up with spare parts..." ;-) -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Randomization is better!!! If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Apr 18 22:52:41 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:56 2005 Subject: PDP-11 price guides In-Reply-To: References: <20040419025220.GN11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20040419035241.GP11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe William Donzelli, from writings of Sun, Apr 18, 2004 at 11:11:47PM -0400: > Money talks. Its a basic rule of life. That, I'm not disputing. However, the cheaper one can keep prices, the thriftier one can be with purchases---no matter how much money one has, and the more toys one can accumulate. Hence, the big collectors should like this as well, since they could have even more toys for the same amount of money. Who doesn't like to spend the least amount of money for something? Thriftiness is a good idea, no matter what one's income is; it makes good economic sense. BTW, I do not say that just because I have some Scottish blood in me. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From spectre at floodgap.com Sun Apr 18 23:16:36 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: PDP-11 price guides In-Reply-To: <20040419035241.GP11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at "Apr 18, 4 11:52:41 pm" Message-ID: <200404190416.VAA15864@floodgap.com> > > Money talks. Its a basic rule of life. > > That, I'm not disputing. However, the cheaper one can keep prices, > the thriftier one can be with purchases---no matter how much money one > has, and the more toys one can accumulate. Hence, the big collectors > should like this as well, since they could have even more toys for the > same amount of money. Yes, but there's going to be supply-and-demand issues with popular items. It's unavoidable that a rare or noteworthy system is going to go for a premium, and that's the price you pay (pun intended) with an open market. It's a commodity like any other. Some collectors, at least in the Commodore world, may have snapped up a number of rare units due to their deeper pockets, but they're genuine enthusiasts as well, and have to their credit shared with the greater community by offering pictures, scans, ROM dumps and technical insights. Doing research for the Secret Weapons of Commodore, these high-power collectors have been invaluable, and actually the fact that they *did* have the green to land some of these amazing systems is very fortunate, as otherwise they'd be lost forever in some storage unit. I'm happy that such deep-pocket collectors *do* exist (even if that means I'll have less of a chance to own one of those units myself, but that's life). -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- "I ... I love you!" "Oh noo! I don't!" -- Awful movie, "Ranma 1/2" --------- From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Apr 18 23:20:15 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: PDP-11 price guides References: <200404190416.VAA15864@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <4083537F.3040504@jetnet.ab.ca> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Yes, but there's going to be supply-and-demand issues with popular items. > It's unavoidable that a rare or noteworthy system is going to go for a > premium, and that's the price you pay (pun intended) with an open market. > It's a commodity like any other. > It is also knowing the value of things, and getting items that you collect while they are still common. While I like old computers I collect now good music and anime before become they become collectors items. Ben. From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Apr 19 01:20:19 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? References: Message-ID: <002501c425d6$63e8d990$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> if anyone has a 5x7 dicroic head for the durst 5x7 Drust graphics arts enlarger let us know... we have an old agfa color head but it has gel filters in it.... ed sharpe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 7:29 PM Subject: Re: Other collecting activities? > > > > Tony Duell wrote: > > > That's smaller than the _film_ size I want to use. Seriously, I have a > > > few 5*4" sheet film cameras. Perhaps that's why I don't think digital > > > cameras have even marginally useable resolution. > > > > Tony, I have a 5*4" enlarger here that's, um, surplus to > > requirements. I used it a few years ago for 6*7cm enlargements, > > Argh!.. I've just bought such an instrument (I did buy a good one, I > hope, a DeVere 504 with Dichormat Mk4 colour head). > > > but I don't have that camera any more. Do you want the enlarger? > > Alas I don't think I have space for another one... If you seriously want > to find it a home, let me have details and I'll see what I can do. > > -tony > > From sieler at allegro.com Sun Apr 18 17:11:07 2004 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: HP-UX 10.20 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40829A8B.3057.1952460A@localhost> Hi, > I need 10.20 and all compliers can you help me. Possibly. We can't supply you the compilers or operating system, as the only copy we own is on a computer we own ... but we can discuss compilation services if that's what you're interested in. In somewhat other words, I'm indirectly asking: is this for hobbyist wants, or business needs? thanks, Stan -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Apr 19 01:57:31 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: PDP-11 price guides In-Reply-To: <200404181937.02278.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200404181937.02278.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: >Has anyone worked on, or thought about working on, a "price guide" >specifically for PDP-11 (or PDP-8, or VAX) hardware? I know of Michael I'm against it as well. There is a "price guide", it's what dealers charge for an item, and what scrappers pay for it. You won't get dealer prices (unless you get *very* lucky), and you should expect to pay slightly more than a scrapper. As for what dealers will pay for an item, take a look at eBay, that'll give you a good idea, several of the people buying stuff there are dealers. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pat at computer-refuge.org Mon Apr 19 01:55:50 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: PDP-11 price guides In-Reply-To: <20040419025220.GN11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <200404181937.02278.pat@computer-refuge.org> <200404182027.35142.pat@computer-refuge.org> <20040419025220.GN11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <200404190155.50681.pat@computer-refuge.org> R. D. Davis declared on Sunday 18 April 2004 09:52 pm: > Quothe Patrick Finnegan, from writings of Sun, Apr 18, 2004 at > > 08:27:35PM -0500: > > And, I'd disagree that these things don't have any value. The have > > value, if not for any better reason than for insurance purposes. > > Also, saying they aren't worth any more than it costs to transport > > them hurts > > See, this is what happens when collectors start poking their noses > into hobbies that were once inexpensive. Prices start to go up and > then only the collectors with deep pockets filled with money that > comes loose from them too easily, who are more interested in long-term > profits than fun, can afford the toys. If I was earning several > billion dollars a year, I'd still refuse to pay high prices for old > computer systems, since that would take the fun out of the hobby. I agree with William Donzelli's asessment of this. You're being a bit too pessimistic I think. While some people might see the price guide, a lot of people won't have a clue it exists, or that this stuff might be worth something. Talk to to anyone who's had their baseball card collection thrown out by their mom while at college. No matter what, there'll still be items thrown out, due to time or "ignorance" on the part of the person getting rid of it. There'll always be a supply of machines that go to scrappers or dumpsters and can be intercepted for free. I've told the people at Purdue Salvage time and time again, "Don't throw anything out made by DEC/digital, I'll pay you money for it," yet I still pull the stuff out of dumpsters there. It's a good thing I go there 1-2x per week. I typically don't find much, but when I do, it's well worth the 10 times I went before and didn't find anything. Again, as Sellam has said, the way to find things is to leave no stone unturned. I've found being excessively persistant can net you some great stuff for cheap to free. In fact, a recent find has netted me some schematics which are now next to my bed, to appease Tony Duell. : ) > > in the long run. There's people that send this stuff to scrappers > > because they think it's worthless. If I can keep one more > > functional > > Convincing people that this equipment might be _wanted_ by some > people, and convincing them to let hobbyists preserve it for good > reason, would be the better solution than making them think it has > some ridiculously high value. That eliminate the little variable > called greed that's bound to creep into the equation. I'd agree. I never said a "high value," just *some value*. Another point this would be useful for is trying to keep people from trying to sell, say, a "common-as-dirt" VAXstation 3100m38 for $1000 and getting fed up when no one wants it. There'll still be people to trade stuff with, who give it away for free, etc. > > saved that one. I don't care that I don't have it as much as *no > > one* has it. I'd rather see this stuff get preserved than get far > > enough down the train to end up in a dumpster or in a scrap yard. > > Sure, it > > Surely most of us feel that way... > > > might be a little more expensive, but it seems worth it to me. > > ...but I, for one, don't feel that needless inflation has to come into > play in order for equipment to be preserved. I think while it might cause some inflation, it a) wouldn't be significant b) might keep people from getting conned into paying $way_too_much for something, and c) would increase the supply as well. If the demand doesn't go up a whole lot, that means that the price might actually go down. Also, some publicity like a price guide might make someone realize that a machine is worth money, and donate it to a museum - like SMECC, RCS/RI, VCF, etc - for a tax rebate. Cheap is good, but preservation, IMHO, is more important. No amount of thriftiness can save the machine that got crushed in the refuse truck. Well, it's time for me to go to bed. If anyone has any suggestions on where I might start with a price guide, feel free to email me off list. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From stanb at dial.pipex.com Mon Apr 19 03:14:09 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 19 Apr 2004 03:28:06 BST." Message-ID: <200404190814.JAA14166@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said: Good B&W pictures _are_ good. And they're definitely having a revival, there's a good magazine dedicated to B&W photography, both wet and digital. You can also buy inkjet printer conversions to B&W using 4 or 7 shades of grey/ black ink, depending on the printer. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Mon Apr 19 03:06:25 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 18 Apr 2004 23:37:43 BST." Message-ID: <200404190806.JAA14115@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said: > > > > >That's smaller than the _film_ size I want to use. Seriously, I have a > > >few 5*4" sheet film cameras. Perhaps that's why I don't think digital > > >cameras have even marginally useable resolution. > > > > I don't suppose you happen to know about the availability of > > materials for a camera that expects to shoot to glass slides? I'll > > I am not sure if plates (that's what we call them in the UK) are still > made. However, sheet film certainly is, and you can back it with a piece > of _flat_ glass or similar. I think there used to be proper converters to > load sheet film into plate cameras. > There still are, any profeesional camera supplier can supply. They can offer you a wide variety of new plate cameras as well... I keep thinking about getting a new 5x4 field camera - in rosewood, I think. 10x8 would be beter, but those things a big! I still use my old Rolleiflexes and Reid (a high quality English Leica copy), but I've been using digital since I got my Apple Quicktake 100 - nearly 10 years ago so almost on topic :-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From dave04a at dunfield.com Mon Apr 19 04:23:55 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: Need help with Atari 1050 disk system Message-ID: <20040419092355.BB9525EAD@outbox.allstream.net> >> Thanks for the info - I did a bit of looking and found >> several references once I mentioned "Atari 400" - turns out >> the supplies are AC, which probably explains why your DMM is >> having trouble determining the polarity. > >Interesting - the one I've got here has DC markings on it! Now I'm confused. Really! - is it the original supply? I'd really like to know FOR SURE before I try and power this thing up - I think tonight I will take it apart and look to see if there is an internal rectifier/filter/regulator etc. Btw, Here are some links so the AC references: http://www.vidgame.net/misc_utility/cross_ref.htm http://www.faqs.org/faqs/atari-8-bit/faq/section-35.html http://www.myoldcomputers.com/museum/comp/atari400.htm >The only Atari machine that didn't have DOS built in out of the box was the >400. All the rest from the 800 upwards supported disks because they had the >extra memory and ROM commands. It's a while since I've played with any of my >1050s though, but I know where the disks are if nobody with easier access >comes up first. Can you (or anyone else) tell me how to access the DOS in ROM? Basically, I would like to format a disk and write/read something to verify that the drive is working - as noted previously, I have no diskettes at all for this drive. Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. From at258 at osfn.org Mon Apr 19 09:00:05 2004 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: PDP 11/40, VT50 or VT52, LA36 In-Reply-To: <21904214.1081955994619.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: You know, you might try e-mailing Geoff Rochat. He can sometimes be difficult, but he might know where some of this hardware is, or suggest shortcuts. On Wed, 14 Apr 2004, Ashley Carder wrote: > Does anyone on this list have any of the following > items that they would be interested in getting rid of: > > PDP 11/40 with rack and RK05 drive(s) > VT50 or VT52 DecScope > LA36 Decwriter > RK05 pack with RSTS/E > > I would like to attempt to reconstruct the computer > that my friends and I used in college from 1975-80. > Our former professor who was also director of the > computer center and is now retired has indicated that > he might offer some assistance in reconstructing the > environment if we can find a PDP 11/40. Our college > junked their 11/40 in 1989 or shortly thereafter. The > new generation of computer people there "cleaned up" > old junk and threw away anything that was left from > the 11/40 that we knew and loved. > > We have created a pretty faithful replica using Bob > Supnik's emulator and have it available via TELNET > on the internet. Several of us had complete prints > from the late 70s of all the source programs on the > system. It was running RSTS/E with Basic Plus. It took > a while to find someone with a soft copy of the > Basic Plus version of ADVENTure, but I was able to get > a copy from someone who was in Project Delta and > have loaded that to our RK05 disk image for our > simulated 11/40. > > We would like to get our hands on the real hardware > so we can feel the heat and hear the fans whirring > once again! > > Thanks for any and all help that anyone can provide! > > Ashley > -- M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Apr 19 08:41:34 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 22:53 -0400 4/16/04, William Donzelli wrote: > > To get totally off-topic in a wholly geek way, I think it really depended >> on the imagination of the DM or GM to make the world fun and interesting. > >Yes, but we were playing with the old rules (the original three hardcover >set), and the combat just gets completely unrealistic. A bunch of orcs >fire a 500 pound rock from a catapult and hit our hero in the face, but >because he has 130 hp and plate armor, he just laughs it off with a >bloody nose. > >We adandoned D&D, but I think they massively revised the rules to correct >this. Later we played a smaller game called Melee (with an attachment >called Wizard), and it was really well done. Not as complex, but a few >ideas could be stolen from D&D. *Yes!* I still have my stuff for The Fantasy Trip (incl. Melee, Wizard, In the Labyrith) and am teaching the kids. *Love* that system. Simple. Programmed introduction. More or less internally consistent. http://www.loran.karoo.net/tft/index.html Has most of the currently on-line resources, and yes the mailing list is currently active. -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From bill at timeguy.com Mon Apr 19 10:06:27 2004 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: Stuff to do/see in Detroit, Cleveland, Columbus OH, Springfield IL? Message-ID: <20040419095937.G86909@outpost.timeguy.com> Since my previous posting, I've been convinced to drive to Detroit and back instead of flying, so we'll be passing through the above cities and probably spending a day and night in each one. Any pointers to good stuff to do/see in or around any of them or the surrounding areas in terms of techie stuff, old computer stuff, technology surplus stores, museums, robotics, shows, vegetarian restaurants, etc. would be very much appreciated. Leaving this Thursday AM. Thanks! From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Apr 19 10:07:24 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: Great HP stuff on Ebay Message-ID: <00c801c42620$05617ae0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I thought long and hard about posting this on the list, not wanting to draw attention to it as it's in an odd category on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3092118791&category=64031&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1 It's an HP 7900A drive, looks to be in great shape, and includes 7 pieces of media. After a long pause I decided I had enough of these. Odd, there was a day when I'd give my left arm for one of these, now I have a couple. So Ashley, here's an example - keep looking and the stuff does show up. Someone please get this drive and don't let it go to the scrapper! Also, make sure to get the 13215A power supply for this drive the seller also has under a separate auction, the drive is worthless without it. And do NOT use the media for this drive in a 7905/06, or vice versa, they look the same but you'll be really sorry :) If no one bids or wants this drive I may bid on it just to save it but I'd rather see someone else get it. The same seller is also selling a pretty nice 1000E cpu, a 12979 I/O expansion unit stuffed with cards, and another auction with keyboard and some cables. I can tell the 1000E cpu does have the right controller in it for this drive (dual 13210 interface). But please don't anyone bid on the DSU he has up in a separate auction, I want that very badly!!! :) Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Mon Apr 19 10:15:19 2004 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <200404172247.SAA27450@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <40818F86.90507@sbcglobal.net> <200404172247.SAA27450@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <4083ED07.4060606@sbcglobal.net> der Mouse wrote: >>>[create-your-own-character RPGs] >> >>Yep, that's sound right. I created a 7 foot tall humanoid creature >>that had sharpened 2 1/2 foot long bone material (3 on each arm) >>extend out from his forearms. I should think that would sound >>familiar to the comic book fans here. ;-) > > > Well, you need to scale it down, and even then, are you saying you have > a 7'-tall humanoid with 2'6" forearms? That seems rather out of > proportion. Or are these claws nonretractable (unlike Logan's)? > Nah' i'm probably just not remembering the dimensions properly. He was 7' tall, and they were retractable... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Mon Apr 19 10:16:01 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: PDP-11 price guides In-Reply-To: <20040419035241.GP11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20040419151601.92691.qmail@web12406.mail.yahoo.com> --- "R. D. Davis" wrote: > That, I'm not disputing. However, the cheaper one > can keep prices, > the thriftier one can be with purchases---no matter > how much money one > has, and the more toys one can accumulate. Hence, > the big collectors > should like this as well, since they could have even > more toys for the > same amount of money. Who doesn't like to spend the > least amount of > money for something? Fine but if you take that position then you can't complain about someone who's position is "who doesn't like to receive the most amount for something they sell?". It two sides of the same coin, you are basically arguing about sellers who has the same philosophy as you do (i.e., money is more important then anything else). Thriftiness is a good idea, no > matter what one's > income is; it makes good economic sense. Bullcrap, thriftiness can be bad economic sense for a billionare who's time is worth alot of money (since thriftiness is usually a time consuming behavior). Yes if the billionare is buying a company, it will pay to be thrifty, but not if he is buying pieces of a large personal collection. It just doesn't make any sense for a billionare to spend a week of his time to save a hundred bucks on a collectible item when he could be saving hundreds of thousands if he spent that time on a bigger business transactions. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Mon Apr 19 10:19:25 2004 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <20040418002806.GA3719@bos7.spole.gov> References: <40818F75.1020305@sbcglobal.net> <20040418002806.GA3719@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <4083EDFD.5020607@sbcglobal.net> Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Sat, Apr 17, 2004 at 04:11:33PM -0400, David Woyciesjes wrote: > >>Patrick wrote: >> >>>I brew beer. Started in '85... >> >> My wife got me a 5 gallon brew kit from Midwest Supply for Christmas. >>Brewed a Scottish Light Ale, and a Belgian Trappist Ale so far; and both >>came out very nicely... > > > We just cracked a keg of homebrew I started at the beginning of winter. > > There's almost always a homebrew group at Pole. Turns out, of all the > brewers here, I have been doing it the longest (also 1985), so beermaking > turned into a beermaking class, but it was lots of fun, and the IPA turned > out really good. > > -ethan > Cool. Donw there you can make just about any style of beer. Pobably pretty easy to set up a cold area for lagering, or even making some of the "ice" filtered beer. Well, assuming you can get the right grains & hops. I'd like to try a lager, but since I don't have a fridge for that (nor the space for a fridge), I'll have to stick to ales in Spring through Fall, and wait 'till winter for a lager... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From allain at panix.com Mon Apr 19 10:58:21 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: save the Mac II (original) References: <200404181937.02278.pat@computer-refuge.org><200404182027.35142.pat@computer-refuge.org><20040419025220.GN11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <200404190155.50681.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <045601c42627$24098440$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Would somebody please take my Mac II? I saved it from being scrapped at the office because of it's history, in that it was Apple's big redesign, the first machine of the new line -- one that completed with IBM's PS/2 line and argubly was a greater success. I'm not a big Apple expert but it just seemed if you were going to have a few Macs that this model would be in the top 5. This one comes with a HiRes graphics card, matching Ikegami monitor (17" but compact) cables, software, etc. They don't seem to be that common, when you strip away all the variants, I haven't really found a place to get this original model. Help save the classiccmp. John A. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Apr 19 11:19:46 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: save the Mac II (original) In-Reply-To: <045601c42627$24098440$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Allain > Sent: 19 April 2004 16:58 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: save the Mac II (original) > > Would somebody please take my Mac II? > > I saved it from being scrapped at the office because of it's > history, in that it was Apple's big redesign, the first > machine of the new line > -- one that completed with IBM's PS/2 line and argubly was a > greater success. I'm not a big Apple expert but it just > seemed if you were going to have a few Macs that this model > would be in the top 5. It would be for me, but I've already got one. Is there much interest for original Macs here? I'm beginning to wonder after nobody replied to me question about a dead Mac IIfx last week :-/ Cheers w From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Apr 19 11:49:22 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: save the Mac II (original) Message-ID: <191.27cf7eda.2db55d12@aol.com> Well, the Mac II is rather big and heavy although I guess you can stack other Mac models on top of it. I prefer the toaster macs since they are what people think of when you say macintosh. Actually the IIfx is a nice machine. 68040 40mhz and decent fx performance. uses special memory though. witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk writes: It would be for me, but I've already got one. Is there much interest for original Macs here? I'm beginning to wonder after nobody replied to me question about a dead Mac IIfx last week From cb at mythtech.net Mon Apr 19 12:19:15 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: save the Mac II (original) Message-ID: >Actually the IIfx is a nice machine. 68040 40mhz and decent fx performance. >uses special memory though. '040? 68030 at 40 MHz -chris From brianmahoney at look.ca Mon Apr 19 12:34:03 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: save the Mac II (original) References: <200404181937.02278.pat@computer-refuge.org><200404182027.35142.pat@computer-refuge.org><20040419025220.GN11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org><200404190155.50681.pat@computer-refuge.org> <045601c42627$24098440$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <001501c42634$9473fa00$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 11:58 AM Subject: save the Mac II (original) > Would somebody please take my Mac II? > > I saved it from being scrapped at the office because of it's history, > in that it was Apple's big redesign, the first machine of the new line > -- one that completed with IBM's PS/2 line and argubly was a greater > success. I'm not a big Apple expert but it just seemed if you were > going to have a few Macs that this model would be in the top 5. > > This one comes with a HiRes graphics card, matching Ikegami monitor > (17" but compact) cables, software, etc. They don't seem to be that > common, when you strip away all the variants, I haven't really found > a place to get this original model. > > Help save the classiccmp. > > John A. > Where are you John? I'm in Toronto and would be interested but won't pay shipping if you are in the States. bm From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Apr 19 13:18:21 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: An original specification document for the 4001, 4002, 4003, & 4004 Micro Computer Set; Message-ID: <200404191818.LAA07827@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Joe R." > > I found this while poking around at the Smithsonian's site. >. In Windows you can click >on each picture to get a larger view then you can right click on each >individual picture and save just the brochure page. > > Joe > Hi As some of you know, I have a working sim-4 board and a '73 MCS-4 manual. I have one of the data sheets like the Smithsonian has for the 8008 as well. When I was at Intel, I made a simple ice like unit that we used to test the 4040 boards use in the PROM programmers. The 4040 is almost the same as the 4004 except a couple added instructions and twice the memory banks. If someone wants to scan them, I have a set of copies I made from my manual. Becides the general information, it includes schematics for the sim-4 and the 1702A programmer card. I also have the code that goes on the sim-4. I've disassembled this as well for anyone that is interested. Dwight From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Apr 19 13:20:56 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: Synertek SYM-1 floppy controller board Message-ID: <200404191820.LAA07832@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I'm looking for the code that was in the ROM of the SYM-1 floppy controller board. If anyone has this, I'd like a dump of the ROM. Thanks Dwight From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Apr 19 13:24:28 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: An original specification document for the 4001, 4002, 4003, & 4004 Micro Computer Set; Message-ID: <200404191824.LAA07837@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Joe R." > > I found this while poking around at the Smithsonian's site. >. In Windows you can click >on each picture to get a larger view then you can right click on each >individual picture and save just the brochure page. > > Joe > Hi For those that want to do it easier, just go directly to the image: http://smithsonianchips.si.edu/ice/images/page1.jpg http://smithsonianchips.si.edu/ice/images/page2.jpg etc. Dwight From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Apr 19 14:01:32 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: An original specification document for the 4001, 4002, 4003, & 4004 Micro Computer Set; Message-ID: <200404191901.MAA07881@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Some other 4004 info can be found at: http://www.chrisbot.com/prog/4004/default.htm Dwight >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" > >>From: "Joe R." >> >> I found this while poking around at the Smithsonian's site. >>. In Windows you can click >>on each picture to get a larger view then you can right click on each >>individual picture and save just the brochure page. >> >> Joe >> > >Hi > For those that want to do it easier, just go directly to the image: > > http://smithsonianchips.si.edu/ice/images/page1.jpg > http://smithsonianchips.si.edu/ice/images/page2.jpg > etc. > >Dwight > > > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Apr 19 14:12:10 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: An original specification document for the 4001, 4002, 4003, & 4004 Micro Computer Set; References: <200404191818.LAA07827@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <4084248A.5040304@jetnet.ab.ca> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > Hi > As some of you know, I have a working sim-4 board and > a '73 MCS-4 manual. I have one of the data sheets > like the Smithsonian has for the 8008 as well. > When I was at Intel, I made a simple ice like unit that > we used to test the 4040 boards use in the PROM programmers. > The 4040 is almost the same as the 4004 except a couple > added instructions and twice the memory banks. Ah ... the heavy weight version. > If someone wants to scan them, I have a set of copies I > made from my manual. Becides the general information, it > includes schematics for the sim-4 and the 1702A programmer > card. I also have the code that goes on the sim-4. I've > disassembled this as well for anyone that is interested. > Dwight > I heard of the 4004 but not the 4040. All the more information on the web the better. Ben. From spc at conman.org Mon Apr 19 14:22:14 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Apr 18, 2004 05:06:21 PM Message-ID: <20040419192214.47C6310B1312@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Zane H. Healy once stated: > > > > Another factor is cost, for a parent with a young child a digital > >> camera is great because you can afford to shoot tons of photos. In > > > >NO!. Many times I've read letters and articles in photographic magazines > >that point out that because you can take dozens of pictures with a > >digital camera and not worry about the cost, then delete the duds later, > > You raise very valid points (that I've cut), however, the photo's I'm > talking about are the ones you don't have time to compose. The ones > where you might have time to quickly grab the camera and shoot the > picture, but only if you're lucky. Heh. I've found it simply impossible to get a clear picture of a kid on a digital camera---the camera is simply too slow, which is one of my major complaints about digital cameras. Due to that, I've found that unless I'm taking a picture in bright light (or using the flash, which isn't always desireable) then a tripod is mandatory. Oh, that, and strapping the kids down if I want a picture of them (or cats, but they're a bit more ornery when I'm strapping them down). > A slightly off-key counter argument to this might be that a Digital > Camera can be a good learning tool for a person, in that it doesn't > cost anything to learn what does work well. Thus allowing them to > shoot better pictures with both digital and film cameras (the problem > with this argument is that film cameras react differently). That is true, and the first thing I do when i get a digital camera is take a picture with each possible setting (the same picture, by the way) to get a feel for what the camera can do (say, pictures of fireworks [1]). Also, because it's digital, I'm open to attempt really silly things, like taking pictures of the moon through a telescope [2]. -spc (Who has never deleted a picture he took, even if it was bad ... ) [1] http://boston.conman.org/2003/7/4.2 [2] http://boston.conman.org/2004/04/05.2 From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Mon Apr 19 17:27:19 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City Message-ID: <0404192227.AA22364@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Ashley Carder wrote: > I want a real unibus PDP-11 badly so I can move a copy of my reincarnated college > 11/40 RSTS/E environment off Bob Supnik's simulator and onto some real hardware. > > It seems like the guys that have all the good stuff already just keep getting more > while the latecomers sit here with the simulator running the old stuff on a PC via > Telnet. The proper way to make a real PDP-11 (or VAX or any other Classic computer) available to everyone who wants one is put them back in FULL PRODUCTION. Not just hobby, but real full production and commercial sales (for a reasonable commercial price). I'm working on a new VAX chip and will soon be putting VAXen in full production. I can't do the same for PDP-11 because it just isn't my area of expertise, but my close fried, comrade and associate Stacy Minkin is more on the PDP-11 side and wants to build a new PDP-11 using FPGA technology just as much as I want to do it for the VAX. If you want new PDP-11s, E-mail him at stacy@ivan.Harhan.ORG and tell him that you want to buy a PDP-11 and would be willing to pay a fair commercial price and possibly finance the NRE cost. Stacy is a real engineer with a vision just as grand as mine, so given enough people willing to buy this stuff (for real, commercially, just like in The Days when it was new), he and I can build The Real Thing: real microcoded CPU, honest-to-Daemon UNIBUS, etc., not a poor man's emulator. MS (who has just returned from a full weekend conference and is catching up with E-mail) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Apr 19 17:32:54 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: TDC1007 / 1007 / TRW / Rare TRW Processor ? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040419183254.00871540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone know what this is? . The seller claims that it's a rare early CPU but I don't think so. Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 19 17:36:33 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040418232325.04a7fae0@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Apr 18, 4 11:42:29 pm Message-ID: > >I find that hard to believe, the Xerox process is essentially > >electrostatic. I've never heard of it being used in a normal camera. > > I don't -- I believe it's called Kirlian photography, and it works by > passing a large amount of electricity [I don't know if it's voltage or It's high voltage (around 30-50kV IIRC -- a lot higher than that used in photocopiers). > current based] thru the object to be photographed, with an > electrostatic-sensitive plate or paper close to that object. The plate/paper is conventional silver-based film normally, I think. AFAIK the process is fairly different from Xeroxography -- Kirlian photography does not depend on toner sticking to charged areas of an object (the photoconductive drum in a copier or laser printer). > >Depedns on what it's for. If it's to remind me which order to connect a > >bundle of wires, then I'll want a colour picture ;-) > > Which, of course, is another *extremely* good use for a digital camera - Well it would be if I had a way of either printing colour digital images, or a colour monitor near whatever I was working on. Since neither is the case, I'll just make notes on a bit of paper. Old-fashioned, but reliable. > keeping a record of disassembly of an item, especially if you've never had > one apart before. Apart from details like 'which way round to these 8 wires go', I never have a problem putting things back together with quite minimal notes. I did my first ASR33 (total strip-down) without any official manuals, and the only notes I made were things like the order of the rails in the stunt box. I think about 4 sheets total. > > BTW, when you mentioned home film-based camera repair, you may have never > attempted to replace the shutter in a Canon T50 camera. (My wife put her I also mentioned I keep well away from modern electronic cameras! > finger thru the shutter of mine, 2 weeks before vacation [holidays]). I > have, and I'm not too big a man to admit that I'm not able to do it, but at > least I tried. ;-) I bought a broken T50 on ePay for $12, and used my > Epson digital camera to record all the parts as I took apart my "test case" > - turns out replacing the shutter mech. in that unit is, well, near > impossible. It's at the *very core* of the camera, and getting all the Normally the front panel (used to be a casting, presumably plastic now :-() and mirror box come out as a unit. Assuming this is a vertically-mounted metal shutter, it'll then come out from the body (OK, a few Minolta and Leica SLRs have the shutter on the back of the mirror box). You'll almost certainly have to peel off the leatherette covering from the body first, and you may have to desolder wires and/or the flexiprint. > Another really good use for [admittedly very-high end] digital cameras: > Sports Photography. Sports shooters generally toss a lot of photos anyway, I didn;t say that digital cameras have no uses, just that I have no use for one. I take almost entirely static subjects, and I want high resolution (to be honest 3.1 M pixels is worse than 35mm (I estimate that as being about 12M pixles), let alone medium or large format). > and in the long run it can be a lot less expensive with... say... a Nikon > D1H (which I've had the pleasure to use - at 3.1 megapixels, it will take a > very nice 8x10). Granted, with a couple of lenses, you'll be about $7000 > poorer, but hey... ;-) Plus the PC and printer, and software. It's getting towards 10 grand. You can get a very nice large format camera, enlarger, and a lot of sheet film for that amount of money! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 19 17:46:30 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <200404190806.JAA14115@citadel.metropolis.local> from "Stan Barr" at Apr 19, 4 09:06:25 am Message-ID: > I keep thinking about getting a new 5x4 field camera - in rosewood, > I think. 10x8 would be beter, but those things a big! There's no real need to buy a new field camera. About the only part that wears out is the bellows and 'The Camera Bellows Company' near Birmingham (that the Birmingham in England) can supply them. Either made to the pattern of your old bellows, or to a pattern they have if they've seen the camera before (the could supply 3 of the MPP bellows I wanted off the shelf, and the prices were IMHO reasonable). One day I really must try making my own camera (and I don't mean a pinhole camera). > > I still use my old Rolleiflexes and Reid (a high quality English Leica I've enver handled a Reid. I've seen them, but I thought they were rather expensive (in comparison to medium/large format stuff which should give a better resolution). -tony From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 19 18:09:54 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: Digital RL02 available in Gouverneur, NY Message-ID: See below. Frederick has an RL02 available, apparently for free. Contact Frederick to arrange for a pick-up. Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:34:54 -0500 From: Frederick Scozzafava To: vcf@vintage.org Subject: Digital RL02 Hello, I just caught the promo/info segment on "The ScreenSavers." Very interesting stuff. We have a Digital RL02 system w/ dual 14" removable disk packs. We also have more than a few spare 14" 10MB disk packs kicking around. We actually used it until Sept. 1999. It ran a LoadSTAR auto parts POS system in Northern New York State, and was purchased by us in 1981. LoadSTAR, a New Jersey company, was recently acquired by CCI/Triad, now Activant. Is this anything that you might be interested in? Or do you know of anyone? As one who has come to terms with his "Geek Factor," I can't bring myself to just tossing the thing out, but.it is the size of a refrigerator, and that's not really a good thing for me at this time. Regards, Frederick Scozzafava Gouverneur Auto Parts & Supply, Inc. 10-18 Park St. Gouverneur, NY 13642 -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 19 18:14:08 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: TDC1007 / 1007 / TRW / Rare TRW Processor ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040419183254.00871540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Apr 2004, Joe R. wrote: > Does anyone know what this is? > 6&sspagename=rvi:1:1>. The seller claims that it's a rare early CPU but I > don't think so. I didn't realize 1983 was considered the "early days of electronics". Wow, I wasn't born too late after all! Woohoo! Looks like some cheezy mock-up if you ask me. Probably rare, I'll grant him that (maybe), but is it significant? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Apr 19 18:21:43 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: Stuff to do/see in Detroit, Cleveland, Columbus OH, Springfield IL? In-Reply-To: <20040419095937.G86909@outpost.timeguy.com> References: <20040419095937.G86909@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <20040419232143.GA26381@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Apr 19, 2004 at 10:06:27AM -0500, Bill Richman wrote: > Since my previous posting, I've been convinced to drive to Detroit and > back instead of flying, so we'll be passing through the above cities and > probably spending a day and night in each one. Any pointers to good stuff > to do/see in or around any of them or the surrounding areas in terms of > techie stuff, old computer stuff, technology surplus stores, museums, > robotics, shows, vegetarian restaurants, etc. would be very much > appreciated. Leaving this Thursday AM. Thanks! In downtown Columbus, there's COSI, the Center of Science and Industry. I was a student volunteer when it was in its old home, up the street. I've been to visit it many times since they've moved down by the river (into the very same building that was used as the school in the Judd Hirsh/Nick Nolte movie "Teachers"). http://www.cosi.org/ My best surplus place is at The Ohio State University, but it's only open one day a week now (and I forget which day that is) from like 08:30 to 15:30. Most of the shops I used to haunt are long gone (places that bought like scrappers and sold interesting things out of a retail store-front - I picked up two sets of Gorf boards there when I was a kid). If you pass through Dayton (intersection of I-75 and I-70), there's Mendelsson's - a multiple-story building filled with who knows what. -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 19-Apr-2004 23:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -81.8 F (-63.2 C) Windchill -121.9 F (-85.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8.6 kts Grid 088 Barometer 689 mb (10289. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Apr 19 18:36:43 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: TDC1007 / 1007 / TRW / Rare TRW Processor ? Message-ID: <200404192336.QAA08123@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > >On Mon, 19 Apr 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> Does anyone know what this is? >> > 6&sspagename=rvi:1:1>. The seller claims that it's a rare early CPU but I >> don't think so. > >I didn't realize 1983 was considered the "early days of electronics". >Wow, I wasn't born too late after all! Woohoo! > >Looks like some cheezy mock-up if you ask me. Probably rare, I'll grant >him that (maybe), but is it significant? > Now, if it was a 80C187, the price would be about right. You guys wouldn't happen to have one of those in working condition sitting about would you? Dwight From wmaddox at pacbell.net Mon Apr 19 18:53:07 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: TDC1007 / 1007 / TRW / Rare TRW Processor ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040419235307.56923.qmail@web80513.mail.yahoo.com> In the 70's, TRW made a fast (for the day) fully-combinational bipolar multiplier that was packaged in an oversized DIP with a giant TRW logo. Chamberlain's "Musical Applications of Microprocessors" has a picture of one. I have no idea what this particular chip is, but TRW did make chips with this "mock up" look. --Bill --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 19 Apr 2004, Joe R. wrote: > > > Does anyone know what this is? > > > > 6&sspagename=rvi:1:1>. The seller claims that > it's a rare early CPU but I > > don't think so. > > I didn't realize 1983 was considered the "early days > of electronics". > Wow, I wasn't born too late after all! Woohoo! > > Looks like some cheezy mock-up if you ask me. > Probably rare, I'll grant > him that (maybe), but is it significant? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || > Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From aek at spies.com Mon Apr 19 19:12:36 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: Stuff to do/see in Detroit, Cleveland, Columbus OH, Springfield IL? Message-ID: <200404200012.i3K0CaKt017398@spies.com> If you pass through Dayton (intersection of I-75 and I-70), there's Mendelsson's -- screw Mendelsson's If you're in Dayton, go to the Air Force Museum. From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Apr 19 15:32:03 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <200404190814.JAA14166@citadel.metropolis.local> References: Your message of "Mon, 19 Apr 2004 03:28:06 BST." Message-ID: <20040420002922.TJRK7304.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Hi, > > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said: > > Good B&W pictures _are_ good. > > And they're definitely having a revival, there's a good magazine > dedicated to B&W photography, both wet and digital. You can also > buy inkjet printer conversions to B&W using 4 or 7 shades of grey/ > black ink, depending on the printer. A $2 comment ("worthless" canadian money) My brother is into photography specializing in B&W photos and while ago hosted a small galley to invited-only group including our family and sold few of them, my parent also bought few of his pictures. It was a big thing for him especially for him bec this is first time he did this. Cheers, Wizard > -- > Cheers, > Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Apr 19 19:33:40 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: TDC1007 / 1007 / TRW / Rare TRW Processor ? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040419183254.00871540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040419203340.0086dd20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:14 PM 4/19/04 -0700, you wrote: >On Mon, 19 Apr 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> Does anyone know what this is? >> > 6&sspagename=rvi:1:1>. The seller claims that it's a rare early CPU but I >> don't think so. > >I didn't realize 1983 was considered the "early days of electronics". >Wow, I wasn't born too late after all! Woohoo! > >Looks like some cheezy mock-up if you ask me. Probably rare, I'll grant >him that (maybe), but is it significant? I doubt it. But it's not a mock-up. I have one that's new in a sealed box. I think it might be a flash A/D. At least that's what I found in this doc; . I find alot of big old TRW ICs like this and I'm always wondering what they are. Joe > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Apr 19 19:36:03 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: TDC1007 / 1007 / TRW / Rare TRW Processor ? In-Reply-To: <20040419235307.56923.qmail@web80513.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040419203603.008733b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:53 PM 4/19/04 -0700, you wrote: >In the 70's, TRW made a fast (for the day) >fully-combinational bipolar multiplier that was >packaged in an oversized DIP with a giant TRW logo. >Chamberlain's "Musical Applications of >Microprocessors" >has a picture of one. I've seen those. I don't remember the PN but I found a pile of boards full of them about a year ago. I find a lot of weird stuff like those. Joe I have no idea what this >particular chip is, but TRW did make chips with this >"mock up" look. > >--Bill > >--- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >> On Mon, 19 Apr 2004, Joe R. wrote: >> >> > Does anyone know what this is? >> > >> >> > 6&sspagename=rvi:1:1>. The seller claims that >> it's a rare early CPU but I >> > don't think so. >> >> I didn't realize 1983 was considered the "early days >> of electronics". >> Wow, I wasn't born too late after all! Woohoo! >> >> Looks like some cheezy mock-up if you ask me. >> Probably rare, I'll grant >> him that (maybe), but is it significant? >> >> -- >> >> Sellam Ismail >> Vintage Computer Festival >> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >> International Man of Intrigue and Danger >> http://www.vintage.org >> >> [ Old computing resources for business || >> Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >> [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at >> http://marketplace.vintage.org ] >> > > From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Apr 19 19:50:18 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: TDC1007 / 1007 / TRW / Rare TRW Processor ? In-Reply-To: <20040419235307.56923.qmail@web80513.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040419235307.56923.qmail@web80513.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Apr 2004, William Maddox wrote: > In the 70's, TRW made a fast (for the day) > fully-combinational bipolar multiplier that was > packaged in an oversized DIP with a giant TRW logo. > Chamberlain's "Musical Applications of > Microprocessors" > has a picture of one. I have the Hayden hardback edition, 9th printing (1988) and it has nothing like this in it - in fact no pictures at all, only line drawings. The three microprocessors mentioned are the 8080, LSI-11, and 6502 - and these are called out as: The 8080 for synthesiser control The LSI-11 for direct synthesis The 6502 for 'logic replacement' No mention of anything from TRW at all, for that matter.... Cheers John From marvin at rain.org Mon Apr 19 20:08:13 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: FA - Reference/Tech Manuals Message-ID: <408477FD.F3A06850@rain.org> Just a heads up, there are several older manuals on the SYI site including the DEC PDP-11 Micro/PDP-11 Handbook, and a number of Z-100 tech manuals. http://www.sellyouritem.com/ListAuctions.html?CategoryID=1497 From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Mon Apr 19 20:24:18 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: simple apple questions Message-ID: <71A1D996-9269-11D8-93AA-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Hey all you AppleII gurus... I am starting into assembly/machine code on my apple IIc+ If I am in the monitor - how do I get back to basic? If I am in basic Call -151 takes me to the monitor right? If I am in the monitor A ! takes me to the mini-asembler URL for reference for the monitor? for the mini-asembler? What do I call to get a character? to print a character? Where is the best place to put my Assembly/Machine code program? Other pointers, tips, opinions, suggestions? Thanks! From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Apr 19 20:27:54 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: Stuff to do/see in Detroit, Cleveland, Columbus OH, Springfield IL? In-Reply-To: <200404200012.i3K0CaKt017398@spies.com> Message-ID: > If you're in Dayton, go to the Air Force Museum. Then up to Lima to Fair Radio Sales. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Apr 19 20:36:23 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? References: Your message of "Mon, 19 Apr 2004 03:28:06 BST." <20040420002922.TJRK7304.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <40847E97.1060704@jetnet.ab.ca> jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > A $2 comment ("worthless" canadian money) I'll take amy and all worthless money you have. > My brother is into photography specializing in B&W photos and while > ago hosted a small galley to invited-only group including our family > and sold few of them, my parent also bought few of his pictures. That was nice. Ben. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Apr 19 20:48:21 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:57 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City References: <0404192227.AA22364@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <40848165.1060308@jetnet.ab.ca> Michael Sokolov wrote: > The proper way to make a real PDP-11 (or VAX or any other Classic computer) > available to everyone who wants one is put them back in FULL PRODUCTION. Not > just hobby, but real full production and commercial sales (for a reasonable > commercial price). How ever does not the PDP-11 and VAX still patents out proventing them from being cloned? Ben. From pat at computer-refuge.org Mon Apr 19 21:08:22 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: New VAX CPUs (was Re: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City) In-Reply-To: <40848165.1060308@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <0404192227.AA22364@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <40848165.1060308@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <200404192108.22391.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Monday 19 April 2004 20:48, ben franchuk wrote: > Michael Sokolov wrote: > > The proper way to make a real PDP-11 (or VAX or any other Classic > > computer) available to everyone who wants one is put them back in > > FULL PRODUCTION. Not just hobby, but real full production and > > commercial sales (for a reasonable commercial price). > > How ever does not the PDP-11 and VAX still patents out proventing > them from being cloned? If the patents took 6 years after being registered to be accepted (a relatively long time), and they're enforcable for 17 years, that means that any significant VAX pantents (which would/should have been applied for no later than the VAX-11/780's release in 1977) would have expired in 2000. I think it's safe to assume that VAX and PDP-11 patents would have expired. Don't forget how old the VAX and -11 are, relative to how long patents last. As well, anything newer than that would likely be on things like chipset architecture, or CPU implementation details, which would be nearly useless to bother following when implementing a modernized version of the CPU. As well, DEC wasn't as IP-heavy as someone like IBM. It was possible/encouraged for third parties to build compatible hardware when these machines were still being produced. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Mon Apr 19 21:11:49 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City Message-ID: <0404200211.AA23236@ivan.Harhan.ORG> ben franchuk wrote: > How ever does not the PDP-11 and VAX still patents out proventing them > from being cloned? The Republic to which I pledge allegiance (Republic of Terra) has no bourgeois patent laws and all intellectual assets belong to All People. MS From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 19 21:15:34 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: simple apple questions In-Reply-To: <71A1D996-9269-11D8-93AA-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Apr 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > If I am in the monitor - how do I get back to basic? to return to BASIC, preserving the program in memory to return to BASIC, initializing program space > If I am in basic Call -151 takes me to the monitor right? Yes! > If I am in the monitor A ! takes me to the mini-asembler Only on machines equipped with the proper ROM, which would be the Enhanced Apple //e and the Apple //c+, and of course the original Apple ][ Monitor ROM. The original entry point for the mini-assembler was $F666 (I can't remember if it works on enhanced //e or //c+). > URL for reference for the monitor? for the mini-asembler? Here's some nice historical info: http://apple2history.org/history/ah03.html As always, try Google before asking. Or Vivisimo. > What do I call to get a character? to print a character? $FDED is the entry-point for COUT (the character you want to print should be in the Accumulator). I forget where the CIN routine is. > Where is the best place to put my Assembly/Machine code program? $300 has at least $80 bytes free for small utility programs. A simple sound generating routine is common to place there. Otherwise, you want to stay away from BASIC program space, if you plan to have a BASIC program in memory with your ML code. $2000-$3FFF and $4000-$5FFF are hi-res pages 1 and 2 respectively. $6000 is a good starting point for large programs that will be using hi-res graphics. You've got about $2600 bytes there, more or less depending on how many DOS buffers you have open. > Other pointers, tips, opinions, suggestions? Have fun! You really need the original Apple ][ Reference Manual. Let me know if you don't have a copy and we'll rectify that. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pat at computer-refuge.org Mon Apr 19 21:19:55 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <0404200211.AA23236@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0404200211.AA23236@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200404192119.55180.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Monday 19 April 2004 21:11, Michael Sokolov wrote: > ben franchuk wrote: > > How ever does not the PDP-11 and VAX still patents out proventing > > them from being cloned? > > The Republic to which I pledge allegiance (Republic of Terra) has no > bourgeois patent laws and all intellectual assets belong to All > People. You sure that isn't the USSR? /me ducks Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 19 21:18:42 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <0404200211.AA23236@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Apr 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > ben franchuk wrote: > > > How ever does not the PDP-11 and VAX still patents out proventing them > > from being cloned? > > The Republic to which I pledge allegiance (Republic of Terra) has no bourgeois > patent laws and all intellectual assets belong to All People. I really don't want to contribute to this thread but I felt compelled to point out that as long as you reside in the Republic of California, which is a member state of the United States, then you are unfortunately subject to the laws of that nation. The lawyers of the people who may be suing you will insist that they don't recognize the Republic of Terra (much less know where it exists) and will make it very difficult for you to argue otherwise. In other words, get real for once. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dholland at woh.rr.com Mon Apr 19 21:24:45 2004 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: simple apple questions In-Reply-To: <71A1D996-9269-11D8-93AA-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> References: <71A1D996-9269-11D8-93AA-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <1082427885.3246.1.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> This looks like it should answer most of your questions... (Probably in more detail than you wanted.) (Some site I just stumbled across... - unrelated to your questions..) http://cosmicwolf.com/AppleII/apple_ii_menu.htm On Mon, 2004-04-19 at 21:24, Ron Hudson wrote: > Hey all you AppleII gurus... > > I am starting into assembly/machine code on my apple IIc+ > > If I am in the monitor - how do I get back to basic? > > If I am in basic Call -151 takes me to the monitor right? > > If I am in the monitor A ! takes me to the mini-asembler > > URL for reference for the monitor? for the mini-asembler? > > What do I call to get a character? to print a character? > > Where is the best place to put my Assembly/Machine code program? > > Other pointers, tips, opinions, suggestions? > > Thanks! From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Apr 19 21:40:20 2004 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: TDC1007 / 1007 / TRW / Rare TRW Processor ? Message-ID: <1ca.1efde7df.2db5e794@aol.com> I have seen some of these before. I had some like this from TRW. Not sure of the numbers though. I remember the TRW was printed on a piece of aluminum which was glued on top of a plastic chip. IIRC one I peeled apart had an AMD 2901 underneath. Most did not have anything printed on the plastic underneath. Seems TRW was quite propriatary. I also had some that I thought were 68000s underneath but with absolutely no markings. We had to take the aluminum cap off before they could go into scrap. Never saw one glued to silicon or ceramic. 2901s were at the heart of some early computers but is not worth the $175.00 that the seller is asking. Paxton Astoria From dave04a at dunfield.com Mon Apr 19 21:55:41 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: simple apple questions Message-ID: <20040420025541.19D8CB4ECE@outbox.allstream.net> >You really need the original Apple ][ Reference Manual. Let me know if >you don't have a copy and we'll rectify that. I have the Apple][ reference manual and a whole pile of other Apple reference books and material scanned ... I'd like to make this available, but I have not done so due to the copyright question - posting a published book which was sold on it's own merit seems less legit than manuals which came with hardware. Anyone have any thoughts/experiences on this? Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. From ken at seefried.com Mon Apr 19 22:01:09 2004 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: 3M Tape Drive on eBay Message-ID: <20040420030109.861.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Thought this was interesting for no other reason than it was manufactured under the original name of 3M (Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing). Didn't know they made computer gear. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=4125760894& rd=1 From dave04a at dunfield.com Mon Apr 19 22:23:22 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: simple apple questions Message-ID: <20040420032322.648836B19@outbox.allstream.net> >I have the Apple][ reference manual and a whole pile of other Apple reference >books and material scanned ... I'd like to make this available, but I have not >done so due to the copyright question - posting a published book which was sold >on it's own merit seems less legit than manuals which came with hardware. >Anyone have any thoughts/experiences on this? A quick follow-up to this before anyone "jumps" on me - I would not even think about posting something which is still available from standard sources - I have not checked to see if you can actually still buy an A2 reference manual from anyone - perhaps there's someone with a warehouse full of them? As noted above, this is not something that I am currently considering. This is more of a "distant future" question - at some point the original material will not be generally available (this may already be the case for some of it), and people wishing to learn about these historic machines will have to either borrow it or steal it (photocopy/scan etc.) - as books get older, rarer and more fragile, borrowing will become harder and harder, as will physical replication. Are there any procedures in place to allow this material to be preserved, or does it just "die off"? Many of the manufactures of obsolete computer hardware/software that I have been able to contact have been very helpful. For example, when I asked Dr. Grant, co-founder of NorthStar computers if I could post the NorthStar OS & software (under my simulator) and scans of NS documentation, he responded "North Star is defunct so there is no problem whatsoever. Have fun.". I've had similar responses from a number of other people who "own" dead computer companies. Books however are a different matter, with published books, you have both the Author and the Publisher with interests in the book. I think it would be a lot more complex to obtain similar permissions, but to be honest, I have not tried - anyone here ever gotten permission to distribute the content of a published book? Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. From kdavis at ndx.net Mon Apr 19 22:32:11 2004 From: kdavis at ndx.net (Kirk Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: Ton of *free* DEC stuff Message-ID: <4EFFFCC0-927B-11D8-8450-000A95DBAA94@ndx.net> I'm moving and will only have room for one small system so I need to give away some things. I have a bunch of stuff that I got from a company that used to make Q-Bus cards. Here some of the stuff I is going: Boards Q-Bus and some U-Bus Manuals VAX, PDP. Some print sets Cables (Cabkits, Serial, drive, network, etc) Media (Mag & Mini tape, disks) Software (lots of dec stuff including several Distros) TK & SCSI Drives Various cabinet parts, rails, hardware, etc Hard drives (5.25 ESDI & ST506) Some Apple & Atari stuff Nothing larger than a BA23, most of the stuff is in boxes. Looking at about 15-20 boxes. *** This is local pickup only *** Preference give to someone that will take it all at once :-) Kirk From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 19 22:31:05 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: simple apple questions In-Reply-To: <20040420025541.19D8CB4ECE@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Apr 2004, Dave Dunfield wrote: > I have the Apple][ reference manual and a whole pile of other Apple > reference books and material scanned ... I'd like to make this > available, but I have not done so due to the copyright question - > posting a published book which was sold on it's own merit seems less > legit than manuals which came with hardware. > > Anyone have any thoughts/experiences on this? What I tell everyone who brings up this dilemma is to just post it until someone sends you a cease and desist. The chances of this are robustly remote, especially with very old computer stuff (most of the companies are no longer around, and even some of the publishing companies are dead and gone), and all you need to do is comply with the cease and desist (i.e. take the content off) and you're fine. I Am Not A Lawyer. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vax3900 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 19 22:34:26 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: HP E-series computer? Message-ID: <20040420033426.71099.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> My friend told me that they are going to get rid off a HP E-series computer from their storage. It is a big box with two rows of switches on the bottom half of front panel. I am a vax guy and need some $$$ to invest into my 3900. Do you guys think it worths to epaying it? Thank you. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 19 22:33:39 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: TDC1007 / 1007 / TRW / Rare TRW Processor ? In-Reply-To: <1ca.1efde7df.2db5e794@aol.com> from "Innfogra@aol.com" at Apr 19, 4 10:40:20 pm Message-ID: The 2901 is a 4 bit ALU/register file designed as a bit slice element for making processors > 2901s were at the heart of some early computers but is not worth the $175.00 This is clearly some definition of 'early' with which I am not familiar. > that the seller is asking. If they are, I'm rich.... -tony From kdavis at ndx.net Mon Apr 19 22:56:49 2004 From: kdavis at ndx.net (Kirk Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: Ton of *free* DEC stuff In-Reply-To: <4EFFFCC0-927B-11D8-8450-000A95DBAA94@ndx.net> References: <4EFFFCC0-927B-11D8-8450-000A95DBAA94@ndx.net> Message-ID: Oops, forgot my location. I'm in Mnt View, CA (SF Bay Area). Kirk On Apr 19, 2004, at 8:32 PM, Kirk Davis wrote: > > I'm moving and will only have room for one small system > so I need to give away some things. I have a bunch of stuff > that I got from a company that used to make Q-Bus cards. > Here some of the stuff I is going: > > Boards Q-Bus and some U-Bus > Manuals VAX, PDP. Some print sets > Cables (Cabkits, Serial, drive, network, etc) > Media (Mag & Mini tape, disks) > Software (lots of dec stuff including several Distros) > TK & SCSI Drives > Various cabinet parts, rails, hardware, etc > Hard drives (5.25 ESDI & ST506) > Some Apple & Atari stuff > > Nothing larger than a BA23, most of the stuff is in > boxes. Looking at about 15-20 boxes. > > *** This is local pickup only *** > > Preference give to someone that will take it all at once :-) > > Kirk > From torquil at chemist.com Mon Apr 19 23:40:31 2004 From: torquil at chemist.com (Torquil MacCorkle, III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: HP E-series computer? References: <20040420033426.71099.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <02b401c42691$a5630560$0500a8c0@floyd> > My friend told me that they are going to get rid off a > HP E-series computer from their storage. It is a big > box with two rows of switches on the bottom half of > front panel. I am a vax guy and need some $$$ to > invest into my 3900. Do you guys think it worths to > epaying it? Thank you. I have discovered that as long as I keep a constant stream of things on ebay for sale, I can constantly be monitoring the computer auctions and pick up the good deals. It is fun to always be expecting something when the UPS truck comes. Most of the things I sell go for only a couple dollars and are just junk (non-computer related stuff for the most part) that I have no use for. It is nice because I am watching all of my possessions turn into things that I like and use before my eyes. ;) From dave at mitton.com Mon Apr 19 23:49:25 2004 From: dave at mitton.com (Dave Mitton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro380, VAXstation In-Reply-To: <200404171300.i3HD0QJ7037680@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040420004143.03f4c5b0@getmail.mitton.com> On 4/17/2004 08:00 AM -0500, cctech-request@classiccmp.org wrote: >Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:49:04 -0400 >From: Paul Koning >Subject: RE: WTB: Pro380, VAXstation >To: arcarlini@iee.org, cctalk@classiccmp.org > > >>>>> "Antonio" == Antonio Carlini writes: > > >> As for a Pro being the easiest route, I wouldn't say so. The bus > >> architecture is completely unrelated to that of any other PDP11, > >> and ugly/messy/baroque/bogus at that. There is NO DMA. The > >> Ethernet card uses the worst Ethernet chip I know. > > Antonio> Out of interest, which chip would that be? > >Intel 82586, if I remember right. It uses queues, not rings, for its >commands. There are race conditions in the programming interface so >that the chip sometimes sets a queue to empty at the same time that >the driver puts a new entry on the queue, which forces the driver to >notice that and repair the confusion. > >This is why real Ethernet chips use rings. > > paul In the process of debugging that driver, the programmer involved with it, found and identified a number of problems/bugs that Intel was unaware of and refused to admit to until they finally isolated and fixed them in a later rev. Dave. (I only did NFT and FALs on DECnet-PRO) From seansekora at hotmail.com Mon Apr 19 10:01:14 2004 From: seansekora at hotmail.com (Sean Sekora) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: 8" floppy Drive Message-ID: Rich, I am emailing you to see if you still have an 8" floppy drive for sale. If so I would like to purchase one. Sean S. _________________________________________________________________ Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar – FREE! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Mon Apr 19 11:03:11 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: save the Mac II (original) In-Reply-To: <045601c42627$24098440$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <200404181937.02278.pat@computer-refuge.org> <200404182027.35142.pat@computer-refuge.org> <20040419025220.GN11720@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <200404190155.50681.pat@computer-refuge.org> <045601c42627$24098440$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040419120223.022c0960@24.161.37.215> Hell, where are ya? If you're in NY Hudson Valley (I think I remember you are), I'll take it. -John Boffemmyer IV At 11:58 AM 4/19/2004, you wrote: >Would somebody please take my Mac II? > >I saved it from being scrapped at the office because of it's history, >in that it was Apple's big redesign, the first machine of the new line >-- one that completed with IBM's PS/2 line and argubly was a greater >success. I'm not a big Apple expert but it just seemed if you were >going to have a few Macs that this model would be in the top 5. > >This one comes with a HiRes graphics card, matching Ikegami monitor >(17" but compact) cables, software, etc. They don't seem to be that >common, when you strip away all the variants, I haven't really found >a place to get this original model. > >Help save the classiccmp. > >John A. ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Mon Apr 19 11:03:58 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <4083EDFD.5020607@sbcglobal.net> References: <40818F75.1020305@sbcglobal.net> <20040418002806.GA3719@bos7.spole.gov> <4083EDFD.5020607@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040419120336.0241aaf8@24.161.37.215> And you never offered me one Dave? Damn you, heh. -John Boffemmyer IV At 11:19 AM 4/19/2004, you wrote: >Ethan Dicks wrote: > >>On Sat, Apr 17, 2004 at 04:11:33PM -0400, David Woyciesjes wrote: >> >>>Patrick wrote: >>> >>>>I brew beer. Started in '85... >>> >>> My wife got me a 5 gallon brew kit from Midwest Supply for >>> Christmas. >>>Brewed a Scottish Light Ale, and a Belgian Trappist Ale so far; and both >>>came out very nicely... >> >>We just cracked a keg of homebrew I started at the beginning of winter. >>There's almost always a homebrew group at Pole. Turns out, of all the >>brewers here, I have been doing it the longest (also 1985), so beermaking >>turned into a beermaking class, but it was lots of fun, and the IPA turned >>out really good. >>-ethan > > Cool. Donw there you can make just about any style of beer. > Pobably pretty easy to set up a cold area for lagering, or even making > some of the "ice" filtered beer. Well, assuming you can get the right > grains & hops. > I'd like to try a lager, but since I don't have a fridge for that > (nor the space for a fridge), I'll have to stick to ales in Spring > through Fall, and wait 'till winter for a lager... > >-- >--- Dave Woyciesjes >--- ICQ# 905818 ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From jdbryan at acm.org Mon Apr 19 12:13:13 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: Data General boards, HP stuff, rainwater damage? In-Reply-To: <20040416003233.GA6231@mooli.org.uk> Message-ID: <200404191713.i3JHDFrQ022449@mail.bcpl.net> On 16 Apr 2004 at 1:32, shirker@mooli.org.uk wrote: > And the following I'll most likely keep, but anything anyone can tell me > about it would be much appreciated... The HP 61000-series is the "PC Instruments" product line. From the 1986 HP Test and Measurement catalog: "HP PC Instruments link test and measurement devices to the HP Vectra PC, HP 150 Touchscreen and Touchscreen II, IBM PC, PC/XT, and PC/AT, creating a more efficient, cost-saving way to program and perform test procedures, analyze and compare data, and record and plot results." > ...(specifically what's needed in terms of hardware/software to control > it) For that, it appears as though you need the HP 61060AA or 61061AA PC Instruments Interface. From the same catalog: "These products provide a link between the HP 150 Touchscreen (HP 61060AA) or the HP Vectra PC, IBM PC, PC/XT, and PC/AT (HP 61061AA) and up to eight PC Instruments. They consist of a PCIB interface card, PC Instruments System Software, PC Instruments System Documentation, and two control cables. The interface card plugs into one of the accessory slots on the HP 150 Touchscreen and one of the long [full-length] accessory slots on the HP Vectra PC and IBM PC." > I had thought these would be HPIB, but the cable (26-way ribbon) looks > nothing like it. "The interface between each instrument and your computer is via HP PCIB -- the HP PC Instruments Bus." > Any/all info about these would be most handy. I could PDF and post the ten pages from the catalog if it would help you, but 90% of it is specifications and pricing on the various modules. Nothing in the pages would give you any hint of how to get your stuff running. Regrettably, I have never used nor have I any documentation on this product. -- Dave From rmu_scada at yahoo.com Mon Apr 19 13:11:11 2004 From: rmu_scada at yahoo.com (Joe Abbott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: Does anyone have National Semiconductor's Appnote AN-359? Message-ID: <20040419181111.65952.qmail@web41311.mail.yahoo.com> http://www.nalanda.nitc.ac.in/industry/appnotes/Natsemi/AN-359.pdf __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash From mrjavarecruiter at yahoo.com Mon Apr 19 15:33:54 2004 From: mrjavarecruiter at yahoo.com (Alek Stebletsov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: Free Scanning Electron Microscope Message-ID: <20040419203354.44592.qmail@web60702.mail.yahoo.com> Jonathan, do you still have the microscope? What do you want for it ? --Alek Alek Stebletsov (518) 506-9503 Albany, NY --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ From tony at encore.1mp.net Mon Apr 19 23:31:25 2004 From: tony at encore.1mp.net (Tony Karavidas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: HP 64000 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040410232820.00861100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200404200431.i3K4VHU12431@echo.uptimesg.com> Joe, are they still available?? > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Joe R. > Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 8:28 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: HP 64000 in Kansas City > > At 11:01 AM 4/8/04 -0400, you wrote: > >On 8 Apr 2004 at 7:47, Joe R. wrote: > > > >> The 64000 and 64100 are very different machines. > > > >Please elaborate. > > You said it yourself: > "My understanding (from owning two since 1985) is that the > "HP 64000" is a product line. The development station > mainframes (desktop, portable) " > > > Maybe I'm wrong but as I recall, the 64000 is a LARGE > desktop unit with > about a 13 or 14 inch screen, keyboard etc all built into one > BIG unit. The > 64100 is portable machine that's similar is size and style to a Kaypro > computer (but slightly larger). The two do similar jobs but > they're very > different in size and weight. Due to the very different styles of > construction and size, I'm sure that they use very different > interface cards. > > I have a couple of both but I've never used the 64100 and > I haven't used > the 64000 in a long time. FWIW I just passed up a couple of > 64000s in a > scrap place. > > Joe > > > > > >Quoting from the "HP 64000 Logic Development System Selection and > >Configuration Guide" (July 1985): > > > > NUMBERING SYSTEM > > > > Following is a breakdown of the 64000 System Numbering scheme. The > > product line is 64XXX in which XXX is: > > > > 001-099: Mainframe Options > > 100-149: Mainframes > > 150-169: Emulation Memory and Controllers > > 190-299: Emulation Modules > > 300-350: Internal Analyzers > > 500-530: PROM Programmers > > 600-620: Timing Analysis > > 630 : State Probes > > 650-799: State Preprocessors > > 810-830: Compilers > > 840-859: Assemblers > > 930-939: Special Support Services > > 940-959: Field Installed Mainframe Options > > 960-965: Cables > > 980-999: Manual Sets > > > >...and: > > > > DEFINITIONS > > > > DEVELOPMENT STATION: The HP64000 station; model numbers 64100A and > > 64110A. > > > >My understanding (from owning two since 1985) is that the > "HP 64000" is a > >product line. The development station mainframes (desktop, > portable) are > >models 64100A and 64110A, respectively. > > > >(This is analogous to the "HP 1000," which is a system. The > actual CPU box > >carries its own model number, e.g., 2108B for an M-Series > with the upgraded > >power supply and nine I/O slots, or 2109E for the equivalent > E-Series. "HP > >1000" wasn't an orderable product number, at least according > to the "HP > >1000 Computer Systems Ordering Guide," 5953-8773D, February 1986.) > > > > -- Dave > > > > > From tony at encore.1mp.net Mon Apr 19 23:31:25 2004 From: tony at encore.1mp.net (Tony Karavidas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: Does anyone have National Semiconductor's Appnote AN-359? In-Reply-To: <20040418143116.GA14480@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <200404200431.i3K4VIU12446@echo.uptimesg.com> I just downloaded from your link: http://www.nalanda.nitc.ac.in/industry/appnotes/Natsemi/AN-359.pdf and I'm in the US. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks > Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 7:31 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Does anyone have National Semiconductor's Appnote AN-359? > > > I have this INS8073-based board with four TIL-311s, an 8255, > a 6116 and a socket for another, an 82S23 PROM, and an > MM58174A. The MM58174A is a clock/calendar chip for which I > can't seem to get the appnote for. > Google reveals an old location at the Nat'l Semi webpage (it > has been removed from their appnote dir), and a single > reference at > http://www.nalanda.nitc.ac.in/industry/appnotes/Natsemi/AN-359.pdf > which refuses my connections (could be down, could be blocking U.S. > access; not sure which). > > I don't care if the Digital Library of the Calcutta Technical > Institute is up or not; all I'm after is the app note for the > MM58174A. Does anyone on the list have the file 'AN-359.pdf'? > > Thanks, > > -ethan > > P.S. - I realize a picture speaks a thousand words, but does > anyone recognize the device I've described? It was a gift > from someone, years ago. I brought it with me both as a > source of TIL-311s and because it's a complete INS8073 SBC. > From what I can gather so far, it's pretty close to the Nat'l > Semi reference design, down to using a 741-style RS-232 > converter for the console interface. The only useful > markings on the PCB are "MC-1N REV-A". The layout of the > TIL-311s and the four pushbuttons on the corners of the front > panel suggest to me some sort of digital timer. There's a > 2x5 jumper block on the front that appears to be input power, > serial in/out and a few of the CPU flag pins (F2, F3). > There's a 1x9 jumper block on the back that seems to be just > options, not I/O, but I haven't traced the whole board out yet. > > P.P.S. - in case you don't recognize the CPU part number, > INS8073, it's a microcontroller with Tiny Basic onboard - you > wire on a level shifter, an SRAM and an optional ROM, and > _bang_, a microcontroller with a built- in development > system. It's the same processor used in the RB5X robot. > I have had this board for years, and last year, I picked up a > few CPU chips on ePay for a few bucks each. They are one of > the many classic toys I brought with me to play with through > the long, winter night. > > -- > Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at > 18-Apr-2004 13:50 Z > South Pole Station > PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -70.8 F (-57.1 C) Windchill > -94.5 F (-70.3 C) > APO AP 96598 Wind 6.2 kts Grid 074 Barometer > 689 mb (10289. ft) > > Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > From tony at encore.1mp.net Mon Apr 19 23:31:25 2004 From: tony at encore.1mp.net (Tony Karavidas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: HP 64000 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <200404131432.i3DEVtrQ028470@mail.bcpl.net> Message-ID: <200404200431.i3K4VHU12434@echo.uptimesg.com> Could you scan more of that manual as time permits?? Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of J. David Bryan > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 7:32 AM > To: Classic Computing List > Subject: Re: HP 64000 in Kansas City > > On 12 Apr 2004 at 10:45, I wrote: > > > I'll scan a couple of pages from the "HP 64000 Installation and > > Configuration Reference Manual" (64980-90921, June 1982) > tonight that > > show the differences and post a URL tomorrow. > > I've posted a pair of pages from the "HP 64000 System > Overview" manual (64980-90912, February 1982) as a 63K PDF at: > > http://www.bcpl.net/~dbryan/dropbox/64000-extracts.pdf > > They have illustrations of the 64100A and 64110A mainframes > and a short list of their physical differences. (The > overview manual seemed to illustrate these better than the > installation manual, once I had checked.) > > -- Dave > From tony at encore.1mp.net Mon Apr 19 23:39:58 2004 From: tony at encore.1mp.net (Tony Karavidas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: HP 9845B In-Reply-To: <009f01c407cd$fb1d2d60$6900a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <200404200439.i3K4dnU12535@echo.uptimesg.com> I don't know. I'm not the one throwing it out... > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Brown [mailto:tractorb@ihug.co.nz] > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 5:05 PM > To:> Subject: Re: HP 9845B > > What country is the 9845B in Tony? > Dave Brown > Christchurch, New Zealand > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tony Karavidas" > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only'" > ; > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 7:12 AM > Subject: RE: HP 9845B > > > > Sure. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org > > > [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of > Christoph Kotter > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 1:02 PM > > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > Subject: HP 9845B > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > my company is about to through away this computer. > > > Do you need it ? > > > > > > > > From brianmahoney at look.ca Tue Apr 20 06:19:25 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: 3M Tape Drive on eBay References: <20040420030109.861.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Message-ID: <002f01c426c9$685b1c60$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Seefried" To: Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 11:01 PM Subject: 3M Tape Drive on eBay > > Thought this was interesting for no other reason than it was manufactured > under the original name of 3M (Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing). Didn't > know they made computer gear. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=4125760894& > rd=1 > I'd love to know what car is under wraps on the right side. Sits like a fastback Mustang. From dave04a at dunfield.com Tue Apr 20 06:30:08 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: Need help with Atari 1050 disk system Message-ID: <20040420113008.671631EC35D@outbox.allstream.net> Hi Steve, >The 1050 uses the "standard" Atari 9 volt AC wall-wart that also powers the >early computers (400 / 800). It was a 31 Watt unit. They came out with a >"beefier" unit later, but for the 1050 the earlier one is fine. As such >polarity is a non-issue. If you plug the unit in without a computer >connected and power it up, the LED on the drive will come ON and you can >hear the spindle motor turn ON and hear the head stepper motor "seeking" >track zero, and then the LED goes out and the spindle and stepper motors >stop. Last night, I took the drive apart and checked it out (all looks good), I could see a rectifier on the input, so I concur that it is AC. I cobbled together a 9V ac supply and powered it up - I did observe exactly what you indicate, the drive comes on, spins, and the head steps out and back from and to track zero. >The software that came with the 1050 only made it a "dual density" as they >called it drive. It actually provided 1.5 times the capacity. Later 3rd >parity software provided actual "double density" performance. The disks are >not IBM compatible. I could probably find a disk for you if I look hard >enough. > >Your last question is kind of a "trick" question. On Ebay you can >buy a SIO2PC cable that will allow your PC to emulate an Atari disk drive, >and there are "images" that can be downloaded to do this function. > >The Atari disk drives contain a "micro-computer" system (6502 based) that >talks to the floppy disk controller and interfaces to the Atari computer >over a 19.2 KBaud serial data link. You can send commands directly to the >drives (without DOS) to do "primates" like Format a disk, and data sector >puts / gets. I hope this helps. If I connect the drive to a computer, I observed the following: With not disk in the drive, the computer rapidly issues "Boot error" messages continuously, and the drive remains stopped. With a disk in the drive (not an Aari disk), the drive activates, and the computer issues "Boot error" much more slowly - clearly it is trying to read the unformatted disk. So - I think the drive is working. I was unable to find any way to get the system up with the drive connected, so I don't see how there could be DOS in ROM as some people have suggested. Any ideas? Is it possible to do anything with the disk without a DOS boot disk. This sounds like a very simiar arrangement to the C64 1541 drive, except that the commodore boots "normally" in BASIC and you can send commands to the drive via BASIC file operations - the Atari appears to want to boot from the drive before you can do anything. I'm planning to build a SIO2PC cable as soon as I can dig up an extra Atari peripheral cable. Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. From wmaddox at pacbell.net Tue Apr 20 07:05:06 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: TDC1007 / 1007 / TRW / Rare TRW Processor ? References: <20040419235307.56923.qmail@web80513.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <009e01c426cf$b86fffd0$1100a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Oops! I misremembered this. It's in Curtis Roads and John Strawn (eds.) _Foundations of Computer Music_, MIT Press, 1987. --Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lawson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 5:50 PM Subject: Re: TDC1007 / 1007 / TRW / Rare TRW Processor ? > > > On Mon, 19 Apr 2004, William Maddox wrote: > > > In the 70's, TRW made a fast (for the day) > > fully-combinational bipolar multiplier that was > > packaged in an oversized DIP with a giant TRW logo. > > Chamberlain's "Musical Applications of > > Microprocessors" > > has a picture of one. > > I have the Hayden hardback edition, 9th printing (1988) and it has > nothing like this in it - in fact no pictures at all, only line drawings. > The three microprocessors mentioned are the 8080, LSI-11, and 6502 - and > these are called out as: > > The 8080 for synthesiser control > The LSI-11 for direct synthesis > The 6502 for 'logic replacement' > > No mention of anything from TRW at all, for that matter.... > > > Cheers > > John From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 20 07:18:41 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: Bubble Memory Collection In-Reply-To: <93E9AD4A-9158-11D8-ADD3-0050E4E0C16B@owt.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040420081841.008a4260@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Interesting. Thanks Norm. But that's not a Multibus card, it's too narrow. Your yellow module looks the same as the ones on my TI card except the numbers are different. What did your two TI boards come out of? Joe At 09:51 AM 4/18/04 -0700, you wrote: >I posted several images from my bubble memory collection. I will be >posting better images and more historical information shortly. I have >a nice Sharp module too, but couldn't find my image of that. The URL >is: > >http://gallery.owt.com/~anheier/index.src > >enjoy! > >Norm > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 20 07:27:40 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: MORE 1802s!!! Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040420082740.008a6aa0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I made a major score of 1802s recently. A couple of weeks ago I went a scrap place and found some old traffic controllers. I opened one and found that they all used socketed 1802 CPUs. I pulled over 50 of them :-) The controllers were Transyt moddel 1800s and they're made in Tallahassee Florida. Here is a not so good picture of what they look like . FWIW I also found a couple of Eagle controllers and I checked them, they used 68008 CPUs. OK, Now go find those controllers! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 20 07:13:08 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: HP 64000 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <200404200431.i3K4VHU12431@echo.uptimesg.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040410232820.00861100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040420081308.0089f740@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:31 PM 4/19/04 -0700, you wrote: >Joe, are they still available?? I think they're still there but they won't be for long since they're cleaning up the place. They're located in centrl Florida. NO I can't pack them or store them. I'm storing so much stuff for other people now that some of my own stuff is sitting outside and getting ruined. These are big heavy suckers so bring a truck! Joe > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org >> [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Joe R. >> Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 8:28 PM >> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >> Subject: Re: HP 64000 in Kansas City >> >> At 11:01 AM 4/8/04 -0400, you wrote: >> >On 8 Apr 2004 at 7:47, Joe R. wrote: >> > >> >> The 64000 and 64100 are very different machines. >> > >> >Please elaborate. >> >> You said it yourself: >> "My understanding (from owning two since 1985) is that the >> "HP 64000" is a product line. The development station >> mainframes (desktop, portable) " >> >> >> Maybe I'm wrong but as I recall, the 64000 is a LARGE >> desktop unit with >> about a 13 or 14 inch screen, keyboard etc all built into one >> BIG unit. The >> 64100 is portable machine that's similar is size and style to a Kaypro >> computer (but slightly larger). The two do similar jobs but >> they're very >> different in size and weight. Due to the very different styles of >> construction and size, I'm sure that they use very different >> interface cards. >> >> I have a couple of both but I've never used the 64100 and >> I haven't used >> the 64000 in a long time. FWIW I just passed up a couple of >> 64000s in a >> scrap place. >> >> Joe >> >> >> > >> >Quoting from the "HP 64000 Logic Development System Selection and >> >Configuration Guide" (July 1985): >> > >> > NUMBERING SYSTEM >> > >> > Following is a breakdown of the 64000 System Numbering scheme. The >> > product line is 64XXX in which XXX is: >> > >> > 001-099: Mainframe Options >> > 100-149: Mainframes >> > 150-169: Emulation Memory and Controllers >> > 190-299: Emulation Modules >> > 300-350: Internal Analyzers >> > 500-530: PROM Programmers >> > 600-620: Timing Analysis >> > 630 : State Probes >> > 650-799: State Preprocessors >> > 810-830: Compilers >> > 840-859: Assemblers >> > 930-939: Special Support Services >> > 940-959: Field Installed Mainframe Options >> > 960-965: Cables >> > 980-999: Manual Sets >> > >> >...and: >> > >> > DEFINITIONS >> > >> > DEVELOPMENT STATION: The HP64000 station; model numbers 64100A and >> > 64110A. >> > >> >My understanding (from owning two since 1985) is that the >> "HP 64000" is a >> >product line. The development station mainframes (desktop, >> portable) are >> >models 64100A and 64110A, respectively. >> > >> >(This is analogous to the "HP 1000," which is a system. The >> actual CPU box >> >carries its own model number, e.g., 2108B for an M-Series >> with the upgraded >> >power supply and nine I/O slots, or 2109E for the equivalent >> E-Series. "HP >> >1000" wasn't an orderable product number, at least according >> to the "HP >> >1000 Computer Systems Ordering Guide," 5953-8773D, February 1986.) >> > >> > -- Dave >> > >> > >> > > From I.Savvidis at cmc.ase.gr Tue Apr 20 02:01:06 2004 From: I.Savvidis at cmc.ase.gr (Savvidis Ioannis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: save the Mac II (original) Message-ID: Dear Mr. Allain hello. If nobody else is interested I would like to have it, if you don't mind sending it to Fairfax, Virginia. I'll pay of course for packing and postage. Thank you in advance, John Savvidis -----Original Message----- From: John Allain [mailto:allain@panix.com] Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 6:58 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: save the Mac II (original) Would somebody please take my Mac II? I saved it from being scrapped at the office because of it's history, in that it was Apple's big redesign, the first machine of the new line -- one that completed with IBM's PS/2 line and argubly was a greater success. I'm not a big Apple expert but it just seemed if you were going to have a few Macs that this model would be in the top 5. This one comes with a HiRes graphics card, matching Ikegami monitor (17" but compact) cables, software, etc. They don't seem to be that common, when you strip away all the variants, I haven't really found a place to get this original model. Help save the classiccmp. John A. From cannings at earthlink.net Tue Apr 20 02:35:53 2004 From: cannings at earthlink.net (Steven Canning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: Need help with Atari 1050 disk system References: <20040418184734.4313C1EC96B@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <001601c426aa$1e722770$6401a8c0@hal9000> Dave, I'm new at this so if it doesn't post correctly, 1000 pardons..... Dave wrote: #1) Can anyone tell me the power requirements of this drive? (voltage, polarity, current) - this information should be on the label of the power supply - as you probably guessed, I did not get the supply with the drive (had an Atari computer supply in the box). The 1050 uses the "standard" Atari 9 volt AC wall-wart that also powers the early computers (400 / 800). It was a 31 Watt unit. They came out with a "beefier" unit later, but for the 1050 the earlier one is fine. As such polarity is a non-issue. If you plug the unit in without a computer connected and power it up, the LED on the drive will come ON and you can hear the spindle motor turn ON and hear the head stepper motor "seeking" track zero, and then the LED goes out and the spindle and stepper motors stop. #2) The box says "Includes DOS 3 Double Density Disk Operating System", but there were no diskettes in the box at all - presumably I need some sort of boot disk... Anyone out there with one that can make a copy or send an image (Can Atari images be read/written on a PC's drive?) The software that came with the 1050 only made it a "dual density" as they called it drive. It actually provided 1.5 times the capacity. Later 3rd parity software provided actual "double density" performance. The disks are not IBM compatible. I could probably find a disk for you if I look hard enough. Your last question is kind of a "trick" question. On Ebay you can buy a SIO2PC cable that will allow your PC to emulate an Atari disk drive, and there are "images" that can be downloaded to do this function. The Atari disk drives contain a "micro-computer" system (6502 based) that talks to the floppy disk controller and interfaces to the Atari computer over a 19.2 KBaud serial data link. You can send commands directly to the drives (without DOS) to do "primates" like Format a disk, and data sector puts / gets. I hope this helps. Best regards, Steven From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Apr 20 08:12:12 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: TDC1007 / 1007 / TRW / Rare TRW Processor ? References: <3.0.6.32.20040419183254.00871540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <16517.8620.809000.75551@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Joe" == Joe R writes: Joe> Does anyone know what this is? Joe> . Joe> The seller claims that it's a rare early CPU but I don't think Joe> so. Google calls it an 8 bit flash A/D. That certainly seems plausible. If that's wrong, the other likely answer is a multiplier (though it doesn't seem to have enough pins for that). Both were signal processing components; TRW did some early ASICs there. The picture doesn't look much like a real IC, more like a mockup for marketing purposes... If anyone wants one, there seem to be plenty available at various surplus parts outlets; Google turned up a couple of those too. paul From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Tue Apr 20 08:31:08 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: Ton of *free* DEC stuff References: <4EFFFCC0-927B-11D8-8450-000A95DBAA94@ndx.net> Message-ID: <4085261C.7163B1D6@compsys.to> >Kirk Davis wrote: > I'm moving and will only have room for one small system > so I need to give away some things. I have a bunch of stuff > that I got from a company that used to make Q-Bus cards. > Here some of the stuff I is going: > Software (lots of dec stuff including several Distros) Jerome Fine replies: As an RT-11 addict (software), I am interested in obtaining copies of all RT-11 Distros. If you don't have the ability to make copies available yourself, can you please ask the person who receives the "stuff" to make them available. While I probably have access to most RT-11 distributions prior to V05.00 of RT-11 (1983), earlier versions are of great interest. PLUS, having a duplicate helps to make sure that any version I do have is correct. Are there any RT-11 Distros? Can you specify which you might have? >Oops, forgot my location. >I'm in Mnt View, CA (SF Bay Area). Normal to forget. I always did as well. I am in Toronto, so pickup is impossible. But since I ONLY want copies of the Distros, FTP is great! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Apr 20 08:31:06 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: MORE 1802s!!! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040420082740.008a6aa0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040420082740.008a6aa0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040420133106.GB4143@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 08:27:40AM -0400, Joe R. wrote: > I made a major score of 1802s recently. A couple of weeks ago I went a > scrap place and found some old traffic controllers. I opened one and found > that they all used socketed 1802 CPUs. I pulled over 50 of them :-) What specific model of 1802 is in there? What manufacturer? (CDP1802BCEs are somewhat common for processors of modern manufacture; I have one old 1802D that someone paid a lot of money for at one point (ISTR you can push an 1802D to +10VDC and overclock it, compared to the cheaper models). Do you know about the 1802 Yahoo! Group? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosmacelf/ As soon as I can find some black paint, I'll be taking pictures of the Popular-Electronics Elf I just put together a few days ago. > FWIW I also found a couple of Eagle controllers and I checked them, they used > 68008 CPUs. 68008s are useful to Sinclair owners. It's not tough to build a homebrew project with one. We had a prototype async<->bisync adapter based on them (since our codebase was for the 68000) that never left the lab. If we'd designed it later, I'd probably have recommended a 68330-type embedded communications controller. Good score. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 20-Apr-2004 13:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -80.5 F (-62.6 C) Windchill -106.8 F (-77.09 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 6.4 kts Grid 095 Barometer 688.8 mb (10297. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Apr 20 09:16:37 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: 3M Tape Drive on eBay In-Reply-To: <002f01c426c9$685b1c60$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> References: <20040420030109.861.qmail@mail.seefried.com> <002f01c426c9$685b1c60$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> Message-ID: <20040420141637.GB19595@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Brian Mahoney, from writings of Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 07:19:25AM -0400: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=4125760894& > > rd=1 Look at the size of those tape reels! I'll bet the tape is fairly low density, as magtape goes. > I'd love to know what car is under wraps on the right side. Sits like a > fastback Mustang. Looks more like some kind of Chevy... perhaps he's selling the tape drive so that he can upgrade from owning Chevys to Fords. ;-) (ducking) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Apr 20 09:21:53 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:58 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City Message-ID: <0404201421.AA23838@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > The Republic to which I pledge allegiance (Republic of Terra) has no > > bourgeois patent laws and all intellectual assets belong to All > > People. > > You sure that isn't the USSR? Well, I was born and raised in the USSR, and I was very supportive and proud of its achievements (still have my USSR passport, it has no legal value since there is no more USSR officially, but it has great soul value), and the laws I'm drawing up for the Republic of Terra are greatly inspired by the USSR, but the USSR and the Republic of Terra are not identical. MS From nico at farumdata.dk Tue Apr 20 09:34:00 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: 3M Tape Drive on eBay References: <20040420030109.861.qmail@mail.seefried.com><002f01c426c9$685b1c60$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> <20040420141637.GB19595@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <000601c426e4$85d2f310$2201a8c0@finans> > Quothe Brian Mahoney, from writings of Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 07:19:25AM -0400: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=4125760894&rd=1 > > > rd=1 > > Look at the size of those tape reels! I'll bet the tape is fairly low > density, as magtape goes. > When you look at the cable trees on the back, you might get the impression that it is a 7-track drive Nico --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 15-04-2004 From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Apr 20 09:33:42 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City Message-ID: <0404201433.AA23852@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I really don't want to contribute to this thread but I felt compelled to > point out that as long as you reside in the Republic of California, which > is a member state of the United States, then you are unfortunately subject > to the laws of that nation. No, because I am officially at war with USA, which is an illegitimate colonial occupant of the land I reside on. This land belongs to the Native American people, who rightfully hate "the white man" (their term for the bourgeois USA nation-state) and fully support me and my work, of which they are quite aware (here I mean not my VAX work, but my work on history of civilisation, ET connections and exopolitics). When the true legitimate owners of this land say they hate "the white man" they really do mean the bourgeois USA nation-state rather than white-skinned people, since I have white skin and yet they recognise me as their brother. And not because I am in some way special (I'm not), but because they are brothers and sisters with ALL native peoples of ALL parts of the world, including the northern regions where the native people have white skin. (They see me as their Siberian brother, as an Apache told me.) > The lawyers of the people who may be suing > you I care about and support the environment and I recycle everything, so if they sue me, I'll put their papers in the recycle bin. MS From ken at seefried.com Tue Apr 20 09:34:26 2004 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: TDC1007 / 1007 / TRW / Rare TRW Processor ? In-Reply-To: <200404200421.i3K4LDJB059824@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200404200421.i3K4LDJB059824@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040420143426.3981.qmail@mail.seefried.com> 8-bit flash A/D converter for video applications. From ken at seefried.com Tue Apr 20 09:44:55 2004 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: New VAX CPUs (was Re: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City) In-Reply-To: <200404200421.i3K4LDJB059824@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200404200421.i3K4LDJB059824@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040420144455.4020.qmail@mail.seefried.com> I was under the (possibly misguided) impression that Mentec owned or exclusively licensed the rights to much of the PDP-11 IP. Dunno how vigorously they would enforce it these days, but they do sell reimplimented PDP-11 hardware (http://www.mentec-inc.com/Mboards.html). Ken From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Apr 20 09:49:31 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: 3M Tape Drive on eBay References: <20040420030109.861.qmail@mail.seefried.com> <002f01c426c9$685b1c60$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> <20040420141637.GB19595@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <16517.14459.277000.455884@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "R" == R D Davis writes: R> Quothe Brian Mahoney, from writings of Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at R> 07:19:25AM -0400: >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=4125760894&rd=1 R> Look at the size of those tape reels! I'll bet the tape is fairly R> low density, as magtape goes. It may very well be an instrumentation recorder -- analog recording... paul From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Apr 20 09:51:31 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: 3M Tape Drive on eBay In-Reply-To: <000601c426e4$85d2f310$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: > When you look at the cable trees on the back, you might get the impression > that it is a 7-track drive That is not a computer tape drive, but an instrumentation tape drive for recording analog data. These were quite common in the 60s and 70s, and were used to record telemetry from rockets, aircraft, ships, cars, or really any lab experiment that generated huge amounts of real time data. Most have large reals like this - you never wanted the tape to run out just as the experiment started to get interesting! William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vcf at siconic.com Tue Apr 20 10:40:40 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <0404201433.AA23852@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > > I really don't want to contribute to this thread but I felt compelled to > > point out that as long as you reside in the Republic of California, which > > is a member state of the United States, then you are unfortunately subject > > to the laws of that nation. > > No, because I am officially at war with USA, which is an illegitimate > colonial occupant of the land I reside on. This land belongs to the Michael, I think it's great that you have such an active imagination. But you should think about the responsibility you take on when you undertake a project such as you are, because there is the possibility of far-reaching repurcussions. Do you want to be the ass that sparks the lawsuit which results in the case that sets the precedent that precludes hobbyists from making replicas or recreations of any classic computers ever again? Yes, this is plausible. So if you're going to do something like recreate the VAX, which I think is a fine endeavour with little chance of legal repurcussions given the current state of affairs with regards to DEC technology, then more power to you. But please do keep in mind that there is still a small possibility of violating someone's IP which might have serious ramifications. Act responsibly, please. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Apr 20 10:45:37 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City References: Message-ID: <000901c426ee$86d82280$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Ok folks, the discussion of non-computer hobbies has been fun and enjoyable, helping to know the folks here and get a better picture. But lets get back to on-topic stuff! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue Apr 20 10:56:16 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: DEC Pictures Message-ID: <200404201056.16422.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Tuesday 20 April 2004 10:45, Jay West wrote: > Ok folks, the discussion of non-computer hobbies has been fun and > enjoyable, helping to know the folks here and get a better picture. > But lets get back to on-topic stuff! And to kick it off, I'm announcing yet another "feature" I'm working on adding to my website. Right now, it's a set of pictures of some DEC peripherals, I hope to expand it to include some specs on the devices as well, and possibly include things like CPUs or boards. Also, it'd be nice to get some non-B&W pictures, but this is what I've got to start with. I'm trying to fix the fustration that I've had using google to figure out what an RM03, for example, looks like. The URL: http://computer-refuge.org/dec-pics/ Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Apr 20 11:09:21 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <0404201433.AA23852@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040420115350.00aeb000@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Michael Sokolov may have mentioned these words: >Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > I really don't want to contribute to this thread but I felt compelled > to.... Me too, just this once... :-( >No, because I am officially at war with USA, If I'm not mistaken, to be "officially" at war, doesn't there have to be a declaration from both sides, or at least a response back to an initial declaration? Can you show us your "declaration of war" paperwork? I could ramble on here, but it would kill too many electrons... > which is an illegitimate colonial >occupant of the land I reside on. This land belongs to the Native American >people, From this statement, it shows you know less about aboriginals / Native Americans than you think... Every Native I've asked says that the land belongs (and should belong) to *no-one*. The whole "We don't inherit land from our parents, we borrow it from our children" philosophy... > who rightfully hate "the white man" Then I must hate myself pretty badly, as I'm 2x more German than Ottawa, but those are my two primary gene-bases... > and fully support me and my work, of which they are quite aware They? I don't support you or your work, I find it quite odd that you feel the need to speak on *my* behalf... > When the true legitimate owners of this land... of which there are none... >(They see me as their Siberian brother, as an Apache told me.) Personally, I see you as a doofus, but that's just me... Otay, 'nuf said, I have already stuffed a sock in it... Thanks for the wasted bandwidth, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Bugs of a feather flock together." sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Russell Nelson zmerch@30below.com | From lcourtney at mvista.com Tue Apr 20 11:19:10 2004 From: lcourtney at mvista.com (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: DEC Pictures In-Reply-To: <200404201056.16422.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: Patrick, Very nice. Would you like contributions to build up the library? Lee Courtney > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Patrick Finnegan > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 8:56 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: DEC Pictures > > > On Tuesday 20 April 2004 10:45, Jay West wrote: > > Ok folks, the discussion of non-computer hobbies has been fun and > > enjoyable, helping to know the folks here and get a better picture. > > But lets get back to on-topic stuff! > > And to kick it off, I'm announcing yet another "feature" I'm working on > adding to my website. Right now, it's a set of pictures of some DEC > peripherals, I hope to expand it to include some specs on the devices > as well, and possibly include things like CPUs or boards. Also, it'd > be nice to get some non-B&W pictures, but this is what I've got to > start with. I'm trying to fix the fustration that I've had using > google to figure out what an RM03, for example, looks like. > > The URL: > http://computer-refuge.org/dec-pics/ > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ > The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From lcourtney at mvista.com Tue Apr 20 11:19:15 2004 From: lcourtney at mvista.com (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <0404201433.AA23852@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: Sellam, Re the attached: "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig" Cheers, Lee > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Michael Sokolov > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 7:34 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City > > > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > I really don't want to contribute to this thread but I felt compelled to > > point out that as long as you reside in the Republic of > California, which > > is a member state of the United States, then you are > unfortunately subject > > to the laws of that nation. > > No, because I am officially at war with USA, which is an > illegitimate colonial > occupant of the land I reside on. This land belongs to the > Native American > people, who rightfully hate "the white man" (their term for the > bourgeois USA > nation-state) and fully support me and my work, of which they are > quite aware > (here I mean not my VAX work, but my work on history of civilisation, ET > connections and exopolitics). When the true legitimate owners of > this land say > they hate "the white man" they really do mean the bourgeois USA > nation-state > rather than white-skinned people, since I have white skin and yet > they recognise > me as their brother. And not because I am in some way special > (I'm not), but > because they are brothers and sisters with ALL native peoples of > ALL parts of > the world, including the northern regions where the native people > have white > skin. (They see me as their Siberian brother, as an Apache told me.) > > > The lawyers of the people who may be suing > > you > > I care about and support the environment and I recycle > everything, so if they > sue me, I'll put their papers in the recycle bin. > > MS From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue Apr 20 11:30:05 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: DEC Pictures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200404201130.05776.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Tuesday 20 April 2004 11:19, Lee Courtney wrote: > Patrick, > > Very nice. Would you like contributions to build up the library? > > Lee Courtney Yes, I would. I was going to put that in the email, but it slipped my mind. Contributions are always welcome. At the moment, I'm getting pictures out of Peripheral Handbooks, so I shouldn't need any more pictures from one of those. I'd definately appreciate some color photos. Some pictures, like the TU77/78, just look like crap in the handbook (bad/no contrast). Pat > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Patrick Finnegan > > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 8:56 AM > > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Subject: DEC Pictures > > > > On Tuesday 20 April 2004 10:45, Jay West wrote: > > > Ok folks, the discussion of non-computer hobbies has been fun and > > > enjoyable, helping to know the folks here and get a better > > > picture. But lets get back to on-topic stuff! > > > > And to kick it off, I'm announcing yet another "feature" I'm > > working on adding to my website. Right now, it's a set of pictures > > of some DEC peripherals, I hope to expand it to include some specs > > on the devices as well, and possibly include things like CPUs or > > boards. Also, it'd be nice to get some non-B&W pictures, but this > > is what I've got to start with. I'm trying to fix the fustration > > that I've had using google to figure out what an RM03, for example, > > looks like. > > > > The URL: > > http://computer-refuge.org/dec-pics/ > > > > Pat > > -- > > Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- > > http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge > > --- http://computer-refuge.org -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From allain at panix.com Tue Apr 20 11:49:41 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: DEC Pictures References: <200404201056.16422.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <011e01c426f7$7a02d4c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > The URL: > http://computer-refuge.org/dec-pics/ > Pat Here's some device pictures I have available for the project: TSZ07, TU81-plus, RX01W (VAX booter), RV20, RRD40 Here's some things I could photograph for the project: RD42, RRD50, RA90, RA92, VTxxx(xxx>51), VRE01 Best Wishes and Thanks! John A. From dundas at caltech.edu Tue Apr 20 12:35:59 2004 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: DEC Pictures In-Reply-To: <200404201056.16422.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200404201056.16422.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: I'm working on an idea similar to Pat's where I scan all my boards and take pictures of assembled systems and components. It's not quite done yet. However in the mean time, I have scanned some old photographs I took in the early-mid '70s. I have only the PDP-10 photos up so far, but I will get the IBM 370 photos done as well. This was the actual installation at Caltech, at the time. Enyoy. John From pds3 at ix.netcom.com Tue Apr 20 13:05:25 2004 From: pds3 at ix.netcom.com (pds3@ix.netcom.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: Ton of *free* DEC stuff Message-ID: <22233397.1082484328922.JavaMail.root@rowlf.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Hi, I am interested in this.I am in Chico but will be down there this week and next week also. I have a lot of equipment myself and would be willing to trade if there is something in particular that you are looking for. Sincerely, Shannon Hoskins pds3@ix.netcom.com -----Original Message----- From: Kirk Davis Sent: Apr 19, 2004 8:32 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Ton of *free* DEC stuff I'm moving and will only have room for one small system so I need to give away some things. I have a bunch of stuff that I got from a company that used to make Q-Bus cards. Here some of the stuff I is going: Boards Q-Bus and some U-Bus Manuals VAX, PDP. Some print sets Cables (Cabkits, Serial, drive, network, etc) Media (Mag & Mini tape, disks) Software (lots of dec stuff including several Distros) TK & SCSI Drives Various cabinet parts, rails, hardware, etc Hard drives (5.25 ESDI & ST506) Some Apple & Atari stuff Nothing larger than a BA23, most of the stuff is in boxes. Looking at about 15-20 boxes. *** This is local pickup only *** Preference give to someone that will take it all at once :-) Kirk From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Apr 20 02:46:37 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:46:30 BST." Message-ID: <200404200746.IAA02816@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said: > > > I still use my old Rolleiflexes and Reid (a high quality English Leica > > I've enver handled a Reid. I've seen them, but I thought they were rather > expensive (in comparison to medium/large format stuff which should give a > better resolution). That's one problem with the Reid, it's getting too darn valuable to take out and use! -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From jdbryan at acm.org Tue Apr 20 12:53:20 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: HP 64000 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <200404200431.i3K4VHU12434@echo.uptimesg.com> References: <200404131432.i3DEVtrQ028470@mail.bcpl.net> Message-ID: <200404201753.i3KHrLrQ000977@mail.bcpl.net> On 19 Apr 2004 at 21:31, Tony Karavidas wrote: > Could you scan more of that manual as time permits?? I have about two dozen HP 64000 manuals, and I intend to scan and PDF the lot within the year as a hedge against their loss. Unfortunately, time is elusive in the near term (I could use a month between now and tomorrow :-), but if there is something specific that you need for which an excerpt would help, let me know, and I'll see if I can post it. -- Dave From kahrs at caip.rutgers.edu Tue Apr 20 15:00:46 2004 From: kahrs at caip.rutgers.edu (Mark Kahrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: TDC1007 / 1007 / TRW / Rare TRW Processor ? Message-ID: <200404202000.i3KK0kAG014344@caip.rutgers.edu> Ah jeez, it's just a 8 bit video ADC. TRW made more than just multipliers (they were famous for making 8x8 and then 16x16 hardwired multipliers). Also famous, a single chip correlator. Details are in the TRW Databook (now deceased). But the price on epay is just amazing. From woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net Tue Apr 20 14:57:43 2004 From: woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040419120336.0241aaf8@24.161.37.215> References: <40818F75.1020305@sbcglobal.net> <20040418002806.GA3719@bos7.spole.gov> <4083EDFD.5020607@sbcglobal.net> <6.1.0.6.2.20040419120336.0241aaf8@24.161.37.215> Message-ID: <408580B7.9010405@sbcglobal.net> Well, when have you been around in the past few months? ;-P John Boffemmyer IV wrote: > And you never offered me one Dave? Damn you, heh. > -John Boffemmyer IV > > At 11:19 AM 4/19/2004, you wrote: > >> Ethan Dicks wrote: >> >>> On Sat, Apr 17, 2004 at 04:11:33PM -0400, David Woyciesjes wrote: >>> >>>> Patrick wrote: >>>> >>>>> I brew beer. Started in '85... >>>> >>>> >>>> My wife got me a 5 gallon brew kit from Midwest Supply for >>>> Christmas. >>>> Brewed a Scottish Light Ale, and a Belgian Trappist Ale so far; and >>>> both >>>> came out very nicely... >>> >>> >>> We just cracked a keg of homebrew I started at the beginning of winter. >>> There's almost always a homebrew group at Pole. Turns out, of all the >>> brewers here, I have been doing it the longest (also 1985), so >>> beermaking >>> turned into a beermaking class, but it was lots of fun, and the IPA >>> turned >>> out really good. >>> -ethan >> >> >> Cool. Donw there you can make just about any style of beer. >> Pobably pretty easy to set up a cold area for lagering, or even making >> some of the "ice" filtered beer. Well, assuming you can get the right >> grains & hops. >> I'd like to try a lager, but since I don't have a fridge for >> that (nor the space for a fridge), I'll have to stick to ales in >> Spring through Fall, and wait 'till winter for a lager... >> >> -- -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 20 16:24:21 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: WTB: Link Computer Graphics CLK-3100 programmer Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040420172421.008235f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone have the programming pod for a Link Computer Graphics CLK 3100 or 6100 programmer? I have the rest of the HW and SW but I'm missing the pod. Here is a couple of pictures. They're small but they're all that I could find. Joe From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Apr 20 16:55:37 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <200404200746.IAA02816@citadel.metropolis.local> References: <200404200746.IAA02816@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <20040420215537.GE19595@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Stan Barr, from writings of Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 08:46:37AM +0100: > That's one problem with the Reid, it's getting too darn valuable to take > out and use! Of what value is it if one can't use it? Of course, if you're referring to the problem of someone stealing it, that's a horse of a different color, and indeed an unfortunate problem. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From dave04a at dunfield.com Tue Apr 20 16:53:23 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: Help with Atari 1050 disk system - success! Message-ID: <20040420215323.EA0D31EC303@outbox.allstream.net> Hi Everybody, (Hi doctor Nick) I discovered that I had a couple of power supplies all along. I remembered this afternoon that I have a couple of Atari 1010 Cassette drives tucked away, so I dug em out and sure enough: Atari 9v 31va supply - just what the doctor ordered. I also found a program called WRITEATA which tries to write Atari format disks on a standard PC drive. It has trouble due to differences in drive speed and the fact that it can't do 128 byte sectors, however I was able to get it to write 130k "enhanced format" 1050 disks. Most Atari DOS images I've found are 90k which it can't do, however I found one called "TurboDos" in a 130k image, and was able to write it and it booted! It booted and then crashed on the 600XL I was originally testing with, however I noticed a message indicating "XE RAMDISK LOADED" ... so I tried a 130XE and everything worked - it comes up in some sort of menu program written in basic, which I could exit (to BASIC), then use "DOS" to get to DOS - so my drive does work! I also found a 130k disk copying disk that works, it appears to have a German version of Atari DOS 2.5 underneath it. Thanks to everyone who helped me figure this out. Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. From dave04a at dunfield.com Tue Apr 20 16:53:25 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: Looking for Atari SC1224 monitor schematic Message-ID: <20040420215325.BE2381EC3D3@outbox.allstream.net> Hi Everybody, Picked up another 520ST (same flea market as 1050 drive) - it's a later edition as it has the power supply and floppy drive built in like my 1040ST. My other 520ST requires an external floppy and drive. Anyway, the machine itself works fine, however the Atari SC1224 monitor that came with it does not. I can hear it "chirp" when I throw the switch, suggesting that the horizontal oscilator is running, however I never get any light on the screen - no apparent "static bristle", so there may be no HV, but I can't tell for sure haven't opened it yet. Anyone got a set of schematics for the SC1224? Btw, does anyone know if the internal floppy drive of a 520ST is a single-sided drive like the external SF354 drive? Or a double sided drive like is in the 1040ST? Thanks, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Apr 20 17:01:55 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: Help with Atari 1050 disk system - success! In-Reply-To: <20040420215323.EA0D31EC303@outbox.allstream.net> References: <20040420215323.EA0D31EC303@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <20040420150041.V5783@newshell.lmi.net> On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Dave Dunfield wrote: > I also found a program called WRITEATA which tries to write Atari format disks on > a standard PC drive. It has trouble due to differences in drive speed and the fact "DIFFERENCE IN DRIVE SPEED" ??!? What speed do the drives of your Ataris run at? From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Apr 20 17:11:44 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Other collecting activities?" (Apr 19, 23:36) References: Message-ID: <10404202311.ZM9215@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 19, 23:36, Tony Duell wrote: > I didn;t say that digital cameras have no uses, just that I have no use > for one. I take almost entirely static subjects, and I want high > resolution (to be honest 3.1 M pixels is worse than 35mm (I estimate that > as being about 12M pixles), let alone medium or large format). Hi-res 35mm is probably better than that. Kodachrome certainly is; it can resolve a couple of thousand lines per *millimeter* under ideal conditions. Even fairly conventional fine-grain black-and-white films have been able to manage 1000 lines per mm since the 1940s. That means if you take the full height of a 35mm image, and enough of the width to match the typical aspect ratio of a digital camera (lets say 3:4), the image could resolve the equivalent of 24000 x 32000 = 768M pixels! It's not quite as simple or dramatic as that, of course. It's not just the resolving power of the film that affects the image quality, there are irradiation and halation effects to consider, as well as graininess, lens quality ("the diameter of the circle of confusion" is a phrase I will never forget). On the other hand, there are digital artefacts like edge effects to think about too. Even if you take a normal fine-grain silver halide image, under average conditions, you'd have about 15M pixels (I found that in a few references on the web). That's about 5 times more than a 3.1M pixel digital image -- except they're analogue pixels, in a sense; the size and colour are infinitely variable, not variable in discrete steps. Moreover, 3.1M pixels in the camera aren't 3.1M pixels in the final image. It depends how they're used, but in the camera, you typically need three pixels, one for each of R, G, and B, to get one RGB pixel in the image. Some techniques use even more (the Bayer algorithm uses 4). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Apr 20 17:27:42 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: Looking for Atari SC1224 monitor schematic In-Reply-To: <20040420215325.BE2381EC3D3@outbox.allstream.net> References: <20040420215325.BE2381EC3D3@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <4085A3DE.4030106@gifford.co.uk> Dave Dunfield wrote: > Anyway, the machine itself works fine, however the Atari SC1224 monitor that > came with it does not. I can hear it "chirp" when I throw the switch, suggesting > that the horizontal oscilator is running, however I never get any light on > the screen - no apparent "static bristle", so there may be no HV, but I can't > tell for sure haven't opened it yet. > > Anyone got a set of schematics for the SC1224? I havn't, but I did have an Atari ST monitor with a fault, which I fixed. It was a bad connector on the incoming video from the ST, and when it failed to connect I simply got a blank screen. I think I ended up removing the duff connector and soldering the wires straight to the PCB. Might be worth checking the connector in your monitor. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From vcf at siconic.com Tue Apr 20 17:45:14 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: Epson website has vintage product info: cool! Message-ID: I just noticed that Epson's website contains product information (including manuals and sales brochures) for some of its legacy products such as the HX-20 and their old line of desktops. Check it out: http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support/SupportIndex.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&oid=-10225&infoType=Overview They even have a link to contact support on the vintage products (though I doubt you would actually get any help on them...it would be neat to try one day however and see what happens :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 20 17:20:56 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro380, VAXstation In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040420004143.03f4c5b0@getmail.mitton.com> from "Dave Mitton" at Apr 20, 4 00:49:25 am Message-ID: > >Intel 82586, if I remember right. It uses queues, not rings, for its I think you do rememebr right. > >commands. There are race conditions in the programming interface so > >that the chip sometimes sets a queue to empty at the same time that > >the driver puts a new entry on the queue, which forces the driver to > >notice that and repair the confusion. > > > >This is why real Ethernet chips use rings. > > > > paul > > In the process of debugging that driver, the programmer involved with it, > found and identified a number of problems/bugs that Intel was unaware of > and refused to admit to until they finally isolated and fixed them in a > later rev. Has Intel ever made a single LSI chip that worked correctly? They even managed to screw up a parallel I/O chip !. The 8255 has the ridiculous 'feature' that any write to the mode control register (even if it doesn't change the contents of said register) clears all output lines to 0's. Since they start off as inputs after reset (effectively floating), and since an unconnected TTL input floats high (if you do the right thing and add a pull up/down resistor, it's a lot easier to pull up than pull down, so the line will stille be high), you get the situation that the logic connected to that chip sees high levels immeediately after the reset which then become 0's when the 8255 is initialised, and then you have to give them the right levels. Some things get terribly confused by this! Other parallel I/O chips let you write to the output register before defining the directions of the I/O lines, so you can set lines to 1's and then make them outputs. There are then no momentary 0 states to drive your logic mad. And IIRC the Intel 8251 USART chip has the feature that there's no way to get it into a known state under certain circumstances (IIRC this happens if you're initialising it in synchronous mode and don't know how many bytes you've written to it). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 20 17:49:57 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: Looking for Atari SC1224 monitor schematic In-Reply-To: <20040420215325.BE2381EC3D3@outbox.allstream.net> from "Dave Dunfield" at Apr 20, 4 05:53:25 pm Message-ID: > Anyway, the machine itself works fine, however the Atari SC1224 monitor that > came with it does not. I can hear it "chirp" when I throw the switch, suggesting What sort of power supply does it use? If it's a switcher, then the chirp might be coming from the chopper transformer, indicating, perhaps, a short on the output of the PSU. That, in turn, might be the line output transistor (HOT to you, I guess). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 20 18:03:36 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <10404202311.ZM9215@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Apr 20, 4 11:11:44 pm Message-ID: > > On Apr 19, 23:36, Tony Duell wrote: > > > I didn;t say that digital cameras have no uses, just that I have no > use > > for one. I take almost entirely static subjects, and I want high > > resolution (to be honest 3.1 M pixels is worse than 35mm (I estimate > that > > as being about 12M pixles), let alone medium or large format). > > Hi-res 35mm is probably better than that. Kodachrome certainly is; it > can resolve a couple of thousand lines per *millimeter* under ideal I was assuming a resolution of 100 lines/mm (good lens, good film), I wasn't just considering the resolution of the film (after all, I use said film in a camera, and it's the end result that matters). > conditions. Even fairly conventional fine-grain black-and-white films > have been able to manage 1000 lines per mm since the 1940s. That means > if you take the full height of a 35mm image, and enough of the width to > match the typical aspect ratio of a digital camera (lets say 3:4), the > image could resolve the equivalent of 24000 x 32000 = 768M pixels! Ouch!. I hate to think what a 5*4 sheet film is equivalent to. > > It's not quite as simple or dramatic as that, of course. It's not just > the resolving power of the film that affects the image quality, there > are irradiation and halation effects to consider, as well as > graininess, lens quality ("the diameter of the circle of confusion" is > a phrase I will never forget). On the other hand, there are digital > artefacts like edge effects to think about too. And noise in the electronic chain under low light conditions (which to me looks worse than the grain on fast conventional film). > > Even if you take a normal fine-grain silver halide image, under average > conditions, you'd have about 15M pixels (I found that in a few > references on the web). That's about 5 times more than a 3.1M pixel > digital image -- except they're analogue pixels, in a sense; the size > and colour are infinitely variable, not variable in discrete steps. > Moreover, 3.1M pixels in the camera aren't 3.1M pixels in the final > image. It depends how they're used, but in the camera, you typically > need three pixels, one for each of R, G, and B, to get one RGB pixel in > the image. Some techniques use even more (the Bayer algorithm uses 4). Argh!. You mean they fiddle the figures? I'd assumed that a 'pixel' was an RGB triad, not a third of one. So you mean you may only get 1 million points in the image from a 3.1M pixel camera? -tony From sastevens at earthlink.net Tue Apr 20 18:10:42 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: TDC1007 / 1007 / TRW / Rare TRW Processor ? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040419183254.00871540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040420181042.69936f52.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:14:08 -0700 (PDT) Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 19 Apr 2004, Joe R. wrote: > > > Does anyone know what this is? > > > 6&sspagename=rvi:1:1>. The seller claims that it's a rare early CPU but I > > don't think so. > > I didn't realize 1983 was considered the "early days of electronics". > Wow, I wasn't born too late after all! Woohoo! > > Looks like some cheezy mock-up if you ask me. Probably rare, I'll grant > him that (maybe), but is it significant? > I looked at a bunch of the other parts that seller has listed. It's the first time in awhile that it's been actually PAINFUL to look at someone's pricing at an 'Ebay Store.' Atrociously priced DTL chips; 19.95 each, with 25 available. The guy is either getting free listings from eBay, or is engaged in a big tax writeoff for the loss he's about to take in listing fees. From wmaddox at pacbell.net Tue Apr 20 18:25:17 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: From alt.sys.pdp11 -- PDP-11's in SoCal need rescue from scrapper! Message-ID: <20040420232517.2577.qmail@web80510.mail.yahoo.com> I saw the following posted on alt.sys.pdp11: [from Jeff Davis ] Hi, I frequent the University of California - Santa Barbara surplus store and noticed they have the following PDP stuff that is heading for the scrap heap this week unless someone comes and buys it (and considering that the alternative is scrap prices, it'll probably go cheap): (from memory, so it's probably 85% accurate): - 4 waist-high 19" racks containing the PDP stuff. - 2 each PDP-11/23 rackmounted - 2 each PDP-11/73 rackmounted - at least 4 RL02 drives - a couple or more RC25 (I think) cartridge drives - other random equipment that I can't identify - 2 Decwriter line printers/consoles - A big push cart full of (looks like unused) RL02 packs and RC25 carts. - RSX manuals and a bunch of other documents All this stuff came from an installation that was finally turned off, so it looks complete. I'd get it for myself, but I just do not have room. If you're in the Santa Barbara / Los Angeles area and are going to pick this stuff up and need a hand, let me know. CONTACT: UCSB Central Stores (805) 893-2732 jeff.goldmann (the at symbol) stores. ucsb. edu From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Tue Apr 20 18:42:30 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: Ton of *free* DEC stuff References: <22233397.1082484328922.JavaMail.root@rowlf.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4085B566.6E4A58AC@compsys.to> >pds3@ix.netcom.com wrote: > Hi, I am interested in this.I am in Chico but will be down there this week and next week also. I have a lot of equipment myself and would be willing to trade if there is something in particular that you are looking for. > Sincerely, > Shannon Hoskins > pds3@ix.netcom.com > >From: Kirk Davis > >I'm moving and will only have room for one small system > >so I need to give away some things. I have a bunch of stuff > >that I got from a company that used to make Q-Bus cards. > >Here some of the stuff I is going: > >Boards Q-Bus and some U-Bus > >Manuals VAX, PDP. Some print sets > >Cables (Cabkits, Serial, drive, network, etc) > >Media (Mag & Mini tape, disks) > >Software (lots of dec stuff including several Distros) > >TK & SCSI Drives > >Various cabinet parts, rails, hardware, etc > >Hard drives (5.25 ESDI & ST506) > >Some Apple & Atari stuff > >Kirk Jerome Fine replies: Since my only contact with Shannon Hoskins in the past has been as a COMMERCIAL reseller, I feel that I should make this information known. In general, I am not against having hardware given FREE to a COMMERCIAL reseller providing no one else wants the stuff. However, I feel that at the very least hobby users SHOULD be given first crack at any such stuff PLUS any COMMERCIAL reseller SHOULD make it plain what they are, especially on a list of this type. If Shannon Hoskins is no longer a COMMERCIAL reseller, then I apologize for the mistake. Otherwise, at least she might offer a reasonable sum for the hardware if there is any worth - which in this case there would seem to be! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From dave04a at dunfield.com Tue Apr 20 18:56:35 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: Help with Atari 1050 disk system - success! Message-ID: <20040420235635.ECBE35DC3@outbox.allstream.net> At 15:01 20/04/2004 -0700, you wrote: >On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Dave Dunfield wrote: >> I also found a program called WRITEATA which tries to write Atari format disks on >> a standard PC drive. It has trouble due to differences in drive speed and the fact > >"DIFFERENCE IN DRIVE SPEED" ??!? > >What speed do the drives of your Ataris run at? A standard PC drive runs at rotational spindle speed of 300 RPM. According to the FAQ's and some of the documents included with the various Atari<>PC disk transfer packages that I have looked at in the past couple of days, the Atari 1050 drive runs at a nominal speed of 288 RPM. The disk copying package that I managed to download and boot included a drive speed test - my drive weighed in at 287 RPM, so it would appear that this information is correct. Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Apr 20 18:58:22 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: TDC1007 / 1007 / TRW / Rare TRW Processor ? In-Reply-To: <20040420181042.69936f52.sastevens@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20040419183254.00871540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040420193846.04e2bb98@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Scott Stevens may have mentioned these words: >I looked at a bunch of the other parts that seller has listed. It's the >first time in awhile that it's been actually PAINFUL to look at someone's >pricing at an 'Ebay Store.' Atrociously priced DTL chips; 19.95 each, >with 25 available. The guy is either getting free listings from eBay, or >is engaged in a big tax writeoff for the loss he's about to take in >listing fees. Not necessarily -- if he only gets a few takers on his Sony CXA1908S chips (I did a quick search on the 1907S, and I think it's a video control chip in monitors, but don't quote me ;-) for $65, and that would cover quite a few ePay listing fees... One thing: I went to their main site, just to see if they could yank a few bullets outta their butt, and they have a multi-chip search function, so I typed in this: 6309 63c09 1773 and I got hundreds of hits - and that was just on 6309. Once I saw the part numbers, tho, I realized it was a very forgiving search function, so I narrowed it down a bit.[1] I put in: 63c09 wd1773 and they have *access*[2] to both the Hitachi 63C09 (faster Moto6809 compatible CPU with more registers & some 32bit functions) and the Western Digital 1773 floppy disk controller chip used in the CoCo disk controllers. Both of these chips are *very* rare, and there's one webpage I was subbed to (until they sent me a bill for $130/quarter to continue using it) that kept searchable chip inventory listings for other companies. I put in a few requests for quotes with those companies, and they never got back to me.... :-/ Now, if this guy/company can get me some each of those chips... reasonably... good service (hell, any service would help WRT these chips) may merit a premium price, as long as it doesn't break the bank. And... according to his inventory list, it looks like he's got some Hitachis in stock[3]... I'm entertaining idears of putting in an RFQ, just to see.... maybe it could turn out well, maybe it would just be entertaining... ??? Anywho, laterz... Roger "Merch" Merchberger [1] For example, 1773 would bring up 17.73xxxxx Mhz crystals, nowhere near what I'm interested in... [2] No prices or "instock" inventories on the webpage, everythings "RFQ" -> Request for Quote [3] No price... of course... looks like he only lists the prices for what's got active ePay auctions for... -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Apr 20 18:57:22 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro380, VAXstation Message-ID: <200404202357.QAA09218@clulw009.amd.com> >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk ---snip--- > >And IIRC the Intel 8251 USART chip has the feature that there's no way to >get it into a known state under certain circumstances (IIRC this happens >if you're initialising it in synchronous mode and don't know how many >bytes you've written to it). > >-tony > Hi I think there is a work around for the 8251 but it isn't all that clean either. You just keep writing commands until you are guaranteed to do a reset. I'd have to look at the code I have someplace to do this. Hopefully, they don't use 8255's to control missile launches. Dwight From classiccmp at crash.com Tue Apr 20 19:27:38 2004 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: Couple DEC items seen on eBay Message-ID: <200404210027.i3L0Rcmx004081@urg.crash.com> Lost control and wandered through ePay for a bit today. A few things someone might be interested in, all DEC, all the same seller as he caught my eye with a laptop and had all these goodies listed. No affiliation. I know I've had some email conversations, not sure if I bought anything, but he seemed reasonable. YMMV. VAX 8530, single cabinet with Console 380 sitting on top, appears cabling is intact. CI interface. Guy wants $250, wonder if he won't make a deal after nobody bids... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1486&item=3091806283 "DEC Memory Array Tester". It's late enough that it's got what look like Euro connectors, but I can't guess what flavor of DEC memory interconnect it's for. Certainly post-Unibus. Has a sheaf of papers in the lid, unclear if they're docs. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=25423&item=3810462266 RK07-EF disk pack, allegedly new in box. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3756&item=4125693956 Share and enjoy, --Steve. From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Apr 20 19:57:24 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: Epson website has vintage product info: cool! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040421005724.GF19595@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Vintage Computer Festival, from writings of Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 03:45:14PM -0700: > I just noticed that Epson's website contains product information > (including manuals and sales brochures) for some of its legacy products > such as the HX-20 and their old line of desktops. Check it out: Now that's the sort of thing that makes one feel better about purchasing such a company's new products. Companies like Epson deserve some sort of special web page linking to both the classic info. and their main page, don't you think? Some brief, handwritten, thank-you notes, on personal stationary, to a few people in upper management at such companies, with a brief mention of the classic-computer preservation hobby, and the VCF, might help the cause. Who know, more companies may catch on. Any thoughts? >http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support/SupportIndex.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&oid=-10225&infoType=Overview > They even have a link to contact support on the vintage products (though I > doubt you would actually get any help on them...it would be neat to try > one day however and see what happens :) Indeed. :-) Thanks for posting this info. Sellam. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From dave04a at dunfield.com Tue Apr 20 20:11:48 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: Looking for Atari SC1224 monitor schematic Message-ID: <20040421011148.3E3701EC39F@outbox.allstream.net> At 23:49 20/04/2004 +0100, you wrote: >> Anyway, the machine itself works fine, however the Atari SC1224 monitor that >> came with it does not. I can hear it "chirp" when I throw the switch, suggesting > >What sort of power supply does it use? If it's a switcher, then the chirp >might be coming from the chopper transformer, indicating, perhaps, a >short on the output of the PSU. That, in turn, might be the line output >transistor (HOT to you, I guess). Hi Tony, It would appear that you are correct. Once I removed the cover, I could clearly tell that the "chirp" is coming from the switching power supply. There appears to be no activity from the rest of the monitor, including the fact that even with the lights off, I could not observe filaments lighting. The power LED does light, however it's fairly dim - I don't know how brightly it would normally light. The final filter capacitor in the supply is rated at 180v DC. I powered the supply briefly under no-load and the output rose to 140v. With all the connections in place, it is producing about 55v - I have no idea what the normal requirements of the monitor are. This is where a set of schematics would really help (anyone ???) Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From brianmahoney at look.ca Tue Apr 20 20:58:59 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: Epson website has vintage product info: cool! References: Message-ID: <001b01c42744$485054a0$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 6:45 PM Subject: Epson website has vintage product info: cool! > > I just noticed that Epson's website contains product information > (including manuals and sales brochures) for some of its legacy products > such as the HX-20 and their old line of desktops. Check it out: > > http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support/SupportIndex.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&oid=-10225&infoType=Overview > > They even have a link to contact support on the vintage products (though I > doubt you would actually get any help on them...it would be neat to try > one day however and see what happens :) > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > There's money in this for Epson, of course. Heads, cartridges, whatever else the old hardware needs. Doesn't cost much to put it on the website and they might get some sales out of it plus the goodwill that r.d.davis mentioned ... trust that your purchase won't go out of date and parts will be there when you need them. Smart move. bm __________________ Is your name on this list? It should be. http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Apr 20 21:00:14 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: TDC1007 / 1007 / TRW / Rare TRW Processor ? In-Reply-To: <009e01c426cf$b86fffd0$1100a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> References: <20040419235307.56923.qmail@web80513.mail.yahoo.com> <009e01c426cf$b86fffd0$1100a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, William Maddox wrote: > Oops! I misremembered this. > It's in Curtis Roads and John Strawn (eds.) _Foundations of Computer Music_, > MIT Press, 1987. Ah, yes - page 232 - fig 13.5 there is the big TRW multiplier chip. Note that the DMX1000 digital synth is driven (housekept?) by a DEC LSI-11 with an RX02 clone (looks like a DSD unit) for storage... and the requisite VT100. Damn: wouldn't it be Cool if any of those were left forgotten in some closet somewhere? Remembering that this is circa 1978/9 - some specs listed: "AT a 19.3 kHtz sampling rate it will implement, for example, 24 simple oscillators, or 16 oscillators with ramp envelope control, or 8 voices of frequency modulation, or 20 first-order filter sections, or 10 second-order filter sections, or 30 white noise generators, or various combinations of the above, such as 12 oscillators and 4 voices of frequency modulation" [from the 4th printing of 1988 - the first edition came out in '85.] Cheers John From fm.arnold at gmx.net Tue Apr 20 11:22:14 2004 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: PDP-11's heading for scrap This Week in Santa Barbara Message-ID: Hi, saw the following on alt.sys.pdp11, it's too far away for me :-( would take the consoleprinters myself if this were in Munich... Regards, Frank >PDP-11's heading for scrap This Week in Santa Barbara, CA area >Author Jeff Davies >Hi, I frequent the University of California - Santa Barbara surplus >store and noticed they have the following PDP stuff that is heading >for the scrap heap this week unless someone comes and buys it (and >considering that the alternative is scrap prices, it'll probably go >cheap): > >(from memory, so it's probably 85% accurate): > >- 4 waist-high 19" racks containing the PDP stuff. >- 2 each PDP-11/23 rackmounted >- 2 each PDP-11/73 rackmounted >- at least 4 RL02 drives >- a couple or more RC25 (I think) cartridge drives >- other random equipment that I can't identify >- 2 Decwriter line printers/consoles >- A big push cart full of (looks like unused) RL02 packs and RC25 >carts. >- RSX manuals and a bunch of other documents > >All this stuff came from an installation that was finally turned off, >so it looks complete. > >I'd get it for myself, but I just do not have room. If you're in the >Santa Barbara / Los Angeles area and are going to pick this stuff up >and need a hand, let me know. > >CONTACT: > >UCSB Central Stores >(805) 893-2732 >jeff.goldmann (the at symbol) stores. ucsb. edu From mross666 at hotmail.com Tue Apr 20 22:11:11 2004 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: ebay shenanigans Message-ID: There's a pdp-8/e & TU56 on ebay... seller is starting bids at $1999.95 (!) Some funny bidding... there WERE two bids, one from Al Kossow, but both now cancelled due to 'entered wrong bid amount'... http://offer.ebay.com/ws3/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=3091261329 Not sure I like the smell of that... Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ >From must-see cities to the best beaches, plan a getaway with the Spring Travel Guide! http://special.msn.com/local/springtravel.armx From torquil at chemist.com Tue Apr 20 22:27:06 2004 From: torquil at chemist.com (Torquil MacCorkle, III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: ebay shenanigans References: Message-ID: <054501c42750$86f58200$0500a8c0@floyd> > There's a pdp-8/e & TU56 on ebay... seller is starting bids at $1999.95 (!) > > Some funny bidding... there WERE two bids, one from Al Kossow, but both now > cancelled due to 'entered wrong bid amount'... > > http://offer.ebay.com/ws3/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=3091261329 > > Not sure I like the smell of that... $3,200 Buy It Now MicroVAX 3100 model 96: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1479&item=3091650363& rd=1 I am thinking about buying it. What do you think? ;) From ohh at drizzle.com Tue Apr 20 22:48:18 2004 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:44:59 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well, there are worse auctions. I saw this auction and damn near wanted to weep: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4125609808 It didn't help that about half of this was from "1970s lab equipment and Minicomputers (mainly DEC boards)", and I'm still looking for a restorable PDP-12... I wrote him a nice letter saying there was a market for some of this stuff, and telling him what I was looking for in particular, in hopes that knowing collectors exist might help many of us in the long run. No answer back yet, though. Aiya! :/ -O.- From allain at panix.com Tue Apr 20 22:53:16 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? References: <10404202311.ZM9215@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <001501c42754$2e0da9c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Hi-res 35mm is probably better than that. Kodachrome certainly > is; it can resolve a couple of thousand lines per *millimeter* under > ideal conditions. Can this be backed up with published information? John A. From tponsford at theriver.com Tue Apr 20 21:49:19 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: more goodies from the auction Message-ID: <4085E12F.5060500@theriver.com> More goodies from today's UofA auction: for a grand sum of $5.00: A Cypher F880 9-track tape drive (operational, but has a missing front dust cover), a couple of old but working HP 750 printers w/ FULL ink cartridges, and a couple of IBM CD's : Risc System/6000 Software #5756-030 AIX/6000 3.2.5 w/NFS Encryption. Bootable (2 cd's) Cheers Tom -- --- Please do not read this sig. If you have read this far, please unread back to the beginning. From vax3900 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 20 22:57:53 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040421035753.4553.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> poor DEC boards. --- "O. Sharp" wrote: > > Well, there are worse auctions. I saw this auction > and damn near wanted > to weep: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4125609808 > > It didn't help that about half of this was from > "1970s lab equipment and > Minicomputers (mainly DEC boards)", and I'm still > looking for a restorable > PDP-12... > > I wrote him a nice letter saying there was a market > for some of this > stuff, and telling him what I was looking for in > particular, in hopes that > knowing collectors exist might help many of us in > the long run. No answer > back yet, though. > > Aiya! :/ > > -O.- > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash From torquil at chemist.com Tue Apr 20 23:08:18 2004 From: torquil at chemist.com (Torquil MacCorkle, III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) References: Message-ID: <056501c42756$48a6acd0$0500a8c0@floyd> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4125609808 That is *SICK*. I wonder who did the mutilation, if this man did it........ must. repress. rage... --- Thanks, Torquil MacCorkle, III Lexington, Virginia From vcf at siconic.com Tue Apr 20 23:21:16 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, O. Sharp wrote: > Well, there are worse auctions. I saw this auction and damn near wanted > to weep: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4125609808 What kind of deleterious ass would auction off gold edge connectors on eBay? Are people really this fucking stupid? The above question is rhetorical. I already know the answer is a stentorian YES. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 20 23:26:58 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: Looking for Atari SC1224 monitor schematic In-Reply-To: <20040421011148.3E3701EC39F@outbox.allstream.net> from "Dave Dunfield" at Apr 20, 4 09:11:48 pm Message-ID: > Hi Tony, > > It would appear that you are correct. Once I removed the cover, I could clearly > tell that the "chirp" is coming from the switching power supply. There appears > to be no activity from the rest of the monitor, including the fact that even > with the lights off, I could not observe filaments lighting. The power LED does It's not unheard-of for the CRT heater to run off the flyback transformer. So if the horizontal output stage is dead, there will be no heater glow. > light, however it's fairly dim - I don't know how brightly it would normally > light. > > The final filter capacitor in the supply is rated at 180v DC. I powered the > supply briefly under no-load and the output rose to 140v. With all the > connections in place, it is producing about 55v - I have no idea what the > normal requirements of the monitor are. I would guess around twice that voltage at least. Does the PSU have one output or seceral ? Have you checked if any of them are stuck at 0V? -tony From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Apr 20 23:30:42 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) In-Reply-To: <056501c42756$48a6acd0$0500a8c0@floyd> References: <056501c42756$48a6acd0$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: <4085F8F2.8030404@jcwren.com> Torquil MacCorkle, III wrote: >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4125609808 >> >> > >That is *SICK*. I wonder who did the mutilation, if this man did it........ >must. repress. rage... > > > >--- >Thanks, >Torquil MacCorkle, III >Lexington, Virginia > > > One thing to remember is that sometimes for equipment to meet the definition of scrapped, it has to be irrepairably damaged. For instance, IBM has a strict rule that boards that are scrapped for tax purposes have to be shredded. And when I've been in Austin Electronics, I've run across boards that have connectors cut off so they can't be used for their original purpose (tin connectors, so I know no one was going for the gold). While I don't support that kind of mutilation of historically interesting equipment, do you think it could be such a situation? --jc From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Apr 20 23:38:57 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > What kind of deleterious ass would auction off gold edge connectors on > eBay? There is a small but growing scrap market on Ebay. Eventually it will get its own category, I suppose. They might actually sell at that price (although it seems a bit high) - the Chinese are back in the scrap game full force, and many will pay seemingly incredible amounts for gold bearing scrap. So basically, live with it. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Apr 20 23:42:15 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) In-Reply-To: <4085F8F2.8030404@jcwren.com> Message-ID: > One thing to remember is that sometimes for equipment to meet the > definition of scrapped, it has to be irrepairably damaged. For > instance, IBM has a strict rule that boards that are scrapped for tax > purposes have to be shredded. USR used to drill holes in the boards at random places. > While I don't support that kind of mutilation of historically > interesting equipment, do you think it could be such a situation? Probably just a guy that just had a bunch of boards in the garage, or maybe a scrapper that one of us pissed off. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vcf at siconic.com Tue Apr 20 23:45:13 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > What kind of deleterious ass would auction off gold edge connectors on > > eBay? > > There is a small but growing scrap market on Ebay. Eventually it will get > its own category, I suppose. > > They might actually sell at that price (although it seems a bit high) - > the Chinese are back in the scrap game full force, and many will pay > seemingly incredible amounts for gold bearing scrap. > > So basically, live with it. Great. There goes the whole concept of "scrap value". Live with it he says. Ha-rumph. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From sastevens at earthlink.net Tue Apr 20 23:48:46 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040420234846.4f744f04.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:21:16 -0700 (PDT) Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, O. Sharp wrote: > > > Well, there are worse auctions. I saw this auction and damn near wanted > > to weep: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4125609808 > > What kind of deleterious ass would auction off gold edge connectors on > eBay? > > Are people really this fucking stupid? I see people selling scrap gold on eBay all the time. When I was shopping for some Pentium Pro chips for my server, there were people saying 'there is over $4 in scrap gold in each of these' (mangled, and probably damaged Pentium Pro processors). However, it's plain retarded and rude to list them in 'Vintage Computers'. What at ALL does scrap/salvage have to do with vintage computers? From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Apr 21 00:02:58 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) In-Reply-To: <20040420234846.4f744f04.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: > However, it's plain retarded and rude to list them in 'Vintage > Computers'. What at ALL does scrap/salvage have to do with vintage > computers? Rude, yes. Which makes me think the seller may have placed it there for a reason. I am not sure - I don't know the guy - but some cheapskate computer collector could have lowballed this guy, and in retaliation, the ruined boards appear on Ebay with an unwritten "see what happens?" note pinned to them. The rule of thumb is to never piss off a scrapper. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From sastevens at earthlink.net Wed Apr 21 00:14:21 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) In-Reply-To: References: <20040420234846.4f744f04.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20040421001421.4f631d1c.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:02:58 -0400 (EDT) William Donzelli wrote: > > However, it's plain retarded and rude to list them in 'Vintage > > Computers'. What at ALL does scrap/salvage have to do with vintage > > computers? > > Rude, yes. Which makes me think the seller may have placed it there for a > reason. I am not sure - I don't know the guy - but some cheapskate > computer collector could have lowballed this guy, and in retaliation, the > ruined boards appear on Ebay with an unwritten "see what happens?" note > pinned to them. The rule of thumb is to never piss off a scrapper. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > That's possible, but the starting bid on that listing means it has a pretty stiff listing fee just to be an act of vengance. From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Apr 21 00:18:34 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) In-Reply-To: <20040421001421.4f631d1c.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: > That's possible, but the starting bid on that listing means it has a > pretty stiff listing fee just to be an act of vengance. I know plenty of scrappers that would pay a few extra dollars for it... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From Innfogra at aol.com Wed Apr 21 00:29:40 2004 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) Message-ID: <1d5.1f38e096.2db760c4@aol.com> Looks to me that the guy has a high volume of scrap go through his place, or he has access to a scrapper. A lot of his sales are chips that he sells through the vintage listing. Looks like he completes less than 10 percent of his sales. Mostly due to high prices. I am surprised at the price of Gold Scrap though. He first started off trying to sell 10 pounds of fingers. After a couple of times he dropped it to 2 pounds at a time. Sold one for $99. He seems to think scrap is worth $49 a pound. Most scrappers have found that they should list it under Gold Bullion not antiques. I sold off about 4 pounds of old pentium processors and, surprisingly, got nearly $36 a pound, which I thought was higher than the scrap value???????? Paxton, Astoria From sml49 at comcast.net Tue Apr 20 19:32:04 2004 From: sml49 at comcast.net (Seth Lewin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: Simple Apple Questions In-Reply-To: <200404200421.i3K4LDJ8059824@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <20040420032322.648836B19@outbox.allstream.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Re: Simple Apple Questions >> I have the Apple][ reference manual and a whole pile of other Apple reference >> books and material scanned ... I'd like to make this available, but I have >> not >> done so due to the copyright question - posting a published book which was >> sold >> on it's own merit seems less legit than manuals which came with hardware. > >> Anyone have any thoughts/experiences on this? Seems to me that if the book is out of print and the machine a long-discontinued one that you'd be on safe ground sharing scans of reference material for free. Apple's lawyers, never a shy group, will certainly let you know if they object. I've got a couple of hardbound Apple reference manuals here too - for the ImageWriter LQ and for the LaserWriter II and would be glad to scan portions for anyone needing such info. Seth Lewin From design3d at fuse.net Tue Apr 20 21:13:40 2004 From: design3d at fuse.net (Don) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: Um, was there a... [Otrona Attache] Message-ID: <000601c42746$43d82810$3002a8c0@intelceleron> Hello, I have been searching for the system disks for the Otrona for a couple of years now. Do you still have these disks? I would appreciate any help you can provide. Regards, Don From sml49 at comcast.net Tue Apr 20 21:57:59 2004 From: sml49 at comcast.net (Seth Lewin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: save the Mac II (original) In-Reply-To: <200404191700.i3JH02J8055507@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: >> Would somebody please take my Mac II? >> >> I saved it from being scrapped at the office because of it's >> history, in that it was Apple's big redesign, the first >> machine of the new line >> -- one that completed with IBM's PS/2 line and argubly was a >> greater success. I'm not a big Apple expert but it just >> seemed if you were going to have a few Macs that this model >> would be in the top 5. > > It would be for me, but I've already got one. Is there much interest for > original Macs here? I'm beginning to wonder after nobody replied to me > question about a dead Mac IIfx last week :-/ > There are a few of us on this list with interest in original Macs; my interest is limited only by available storage space. (Want a few Iisi's, perhaps? A few 20MB Rodime hard drives with external actuators?) What happened with your Iifx? If you're really going to scrap the II I could perhaps be persuaded to give it a home; haven't had my hands on one since I ran one as a file server in 1991-2; somewhere I still have AppleShare and the AppleTalk Internet Router software I used back then. That was a really hot network (not) - 6 SE's, an SE30, an original LC, a Iisi, a II as a server, another II as a workstation, a Shiva Telebridge and an Avatar MacMainFrame SDLC gateway to a remote CICS host and a LaserWriter IINT. All on PhoneNet, too. Another SE was used to dial into the Telebridge at 2400BPS thru a Practical Peripherals modem. 90MB SCSI Bernoulli on the SE30 for backup. We even had a PC in on this party using a PC AppleTalk card. Ran FileMaker II for a workgroup plus Word 5, Excel, PageMaker 3, Canvas 2.1 and the Avatar software for mainframe session access. The Avatar printer emulator ran on a dedicated SE driving an OKI dot-matrix printer through a serial-to-parallel adapter as I recall. Worked fine, too. The leased-line modem for the remote mainframe access was easily as big as a Mac II; as I recall the II sat on top of it. Quite the setup. Drove our MIS guy nuts that this arrangement of odds and ends set up by an amateur - all units were out of production by then except maybe the Iisi - was stable but his Novell setup crashed every few days. I figure your Mac II and my ImageWriter LQ would make a handsome 'couple' while completely covering a good sized desk's top. Nothing like old Apple hardware - I'm still printing on the LaserWriter II I bought new in 1989. Works fine. Slowly, but fine. Seth Lewin From tony at encore.1mp.net Tue Apr 20 23:20:23 2004 From: tony at encore.1mp.net (Tony Karavidas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: HP 64000 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040420081308.0089f740@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200404210420.i3L4KCU15564@echo.uptimesg.com> Unfortunately I'm in Northern California, otherwise I would drive there!! What part of central Florida? I have a couple friends that 'owe me a favor.' Regards, Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Joe R. > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 5:13 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: HP 64000 in Kansas City > > At 09:31 PM 4/19/04 -0700, you wrote: > >Joe, are they still available?? > > > I think they're still there but they won't be for long > since they're cleaning up the place. They're located in > centrl Florida. NO I can't pack them or store them. I'm > storing so much stuff for other people now that some of my > own stuff is sitting outside and getting ruined. These are > big heavy suckers so bring a truck! > > Joe > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org > >> [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Joe R. > >> Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 8:28 PM > >> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > >> Subject: Re: HP 64000 in Kansas City > >> > >> At 11:01 AM 4/8/04 -0400, you wrote: > >> >On 8 Apr 2004 at 7:47, Joe R. wrote: > >> > > >> >> The 64000 and 64100 are very different machines. > >> > > >> >Please elaborate. > >> > >> You said it yourself: > >> "My understanding (from owning two since 1985) is that the > "HP 64000" > >> is a product line. The development station mainframes (desktop, > >> portable) " > >> > >> > >> Maybe I'm wrong but as I recall, the 64000 is a LARGE > desktop unit > >> with about a 13 or 14 inch screen, keyboard etc all built into one > >> BIG unit. The 64100 is portable machine that's similar is size and > >> style to a Kaypro computer (but slightly larger). The two > do similar > >> jobs but they're very different in size and weight. Due to > the very > >> different styles of construction and size, I'm sure that they use > >> very different interface cards. > >> > >> I have a couple of both but I've never used the 64100 and I > >> haven't used the 64000 in a long time. FWIW I just passed > up a couple > >> of 64000s in a scrap place. > >> > >> Joe > >> > >> > >> > > >> >Quoting from the "HP 64000 Logic Development System Selection and > >> >Configuration Guide" (July 1985): > >> > > >> > NUMBERING SYSTEM > >> > > >> > Following is a breakdown of the 64000 System Numbering scheme. > >> > The product line is 64XXX in which XXX is: > >> > > >> > 001-099: Mainframe Options > >> > 100-149: Mainframes > >> > 150-169: Emulation Memory and Controllers > >> > 190-299: Emulation Modules > >> > 300-350: Internal Analyzers > >> > 500-530: PROM Programmers > >> > 600-620: Timing Analysis > >> > 630 : State Probes > >> > 650-799: State Preprocessors > >> > 810-830: Compilers > >> > 840-859: Assemblers > >> > 930-939: Special Support Services > >> > 940-959: Field Installed Mainframe Options > >> > 960-965: Cables > >> > 980-999: Manual Sets > >> > > >> >...and: > >> > > >> > DEFINITIONS > >> > > >> > DEVELOPMENT STATION: The HP64000 station; model numbers > 64100A and > >> > 64110A. > >> > > >> >My understanding (from owning two since 1985) is that the > >> "HP 64000" is a > >> >product line. The development station mainframes (desktop, > >> portable) are > >> >models 64100A and 64110A, respectively. > >> > > >> >(This is analogous to the "HP 1000," which is a system. The > >> actual CPU box > >> >carries its own model number, e.g., 2108B for an M-Series > >> with the upgraded > >> >power supply and nine I/O slots, or 2109E for the equivalent > >> E-Series. "HP > >> >1000" wasn't an orderable product number, at least according > >> to the "HP > >> >1000 Computer Systems Ordering Guide," 5953-8773D, February 1986.) > >> > > >> > -- Dave > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Apr 21 02:25:49 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: Dead Mac IIfx References: Message-ID: <021c01c42771$def93c00$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Witchy" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 2:47 PM Subject: Dead Mac IIfx > Hi folks, > > After getting a nubus ethernet card and a radius 24bit accelerator I thought > I'd dig out my olde IIfx......trouble is it's refusing to power up even with > different keyboards/known good PRAM batteries. It worked when I got it a > couple of years ago; I even treated it to knew batteries, so anyone know of > any instant fixes for dead machines? > I'm going to steal the PSU from my other Mac II and see if it makes a > difference....I know they're the same apart from the IIfx one has a variable > speed fan. > > Cheers, > > -- > Adrian/Witchy > Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > Normal procedure for a dead computer is to remove everything but the videocard and main ram (in this case special 64 pin SIMMs that you have to install 4 at a time in the same bank). The IIfx has a special scsi bus and is VERY picky about termination. From spc at conman.org Wed Apr 21 02:46:36 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <0404201421.AA23838@ivan.Harhan.ORG> from "Michael Sokolov" at Apr 20, 2004 07:21:53 AM Message-ID: <20040421074636.B285E10B1310@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Michael Sokolov once stated: > > Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > > The Republic to which I pledge allegiance (Republic of Terra) has no > > > bourgeois patent laws and all intellectual assets belong to All > > > People. > > > > You sure that isn't the USSR? > > Well, I was born and raised in the USSR, and I was very supportive and proud of > its achievements (still have my USSR passport, it has no legal value since there > is no more USSR officially, but it has great soul value), and the laws I'm > drawing up for the Republic of Terra are greatly inspired by the USSR, but the > USSR and the Republic of Terra are not identical. You might want to read up on French history from 1792 onwards. After the French Revolution, intellectual property was banned and anything produced was placed into the public domain. The questions to ask yourself is why that didn't outlast the French Republic. -spc (I do, however, think the USPO is a bit out of control ... ) From spc at conman.org Wed Apr 21 03:01:52 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Apr 21, 2004 12:03:36 AM Message-ID: <20040421080152.9AE3F10B1310@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Tony Duell once stated: > > > Even if you take a normal fine-grain silver halide image, under average > > conditions, you'd have about 15M pixels (I found that in a few > > references on the web). That's about 5 times more than a 3.1M pixel > > digital image -- except they're analogue pixels, in a sense; the size > > and colour are infinitely variable, not variable in discrete steps. > > Moreover, 3.1M pixels in the camera aren't 3.1M pixels in the final > > image. It depends how they're used, but in the camera, you typically > > need three pixels, one for each of R, G, and B, to get one RGB pixel in > > the image. Some techniques use even more (the Bayer algorithm uses 4). > > Argh!. You mean they fiddle the figures? I'd assumed that a 'pixel' was > an RGB triad, not a third of one. So you mean you may only get 1 million > points in the image from a 3.1M pixel camera? My 3.1M pixel camera gives me pictures that are 2048x1536 in size, so yes, you do get an image with 3.1 million pixels in it, but I suspect that the CCD is larger than 2048x1536 and some interpolation is done. I have seen pictures from a 15MP camera (I forgot who) that were gorgeous (huge things ... the jpegs alone where ridiculously huge) but it isn't on the market yet (test camera). Also, I read an article about Sports Illustrated using digital cameras (high end SLR units) and their workflow---now much faster due to the "development" time being negligable. -spc (Wouldn't mind having a B&W digital camera ... ) From pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org Wed Apr 21 03:06:27 2004 From: pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: Dead Mac IIfx References: <021c01c42771$def93c00$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <007101c42777$8c967a80$4601a8c0@ebrius> Remove your good PRAM battery for 24 hours, with the machine unplugged. This used to fix about 90% of them. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teo Zenios" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 8:25 AM Subject: Re: Dead Mac IIfx > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Witchy" > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > > Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 2:47 PM > Subject: Dead Mac IIfx > > > > Hi folks, > > > > After getting a nubus ethernet card and a radius 24bit accelerator I > thought > > I'd dig out my olde IIfx......trouble is it's refusing to power up even > with > > different keyboards/known good PRAM batteries. It worked when I got it a > > couple of years ago; I even treated it to knew batteries, so anyone know > of > > any instant fixes for dead machines? > > I'm going to steal the PSU from my other Mac II and see if it makes a > > difference....I know they're the same apart from the IIfx one has a > variable > > speed fan. > > > > Cheers, > > > > -- > > Adrian/Witchy > > Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs > > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer > museum > > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( "I guess that every form of refuge has its price." --The Eagles -------------------------------------------------------------- Website - http://www.retrobbs.org Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org BBS - http://bbs.retrobbs.org:8000 IRC - irc.retrobbs.org #main WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki > From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Apr 21 03:14:33 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <0404201433.AA23852@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0404201433.AA23852@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200404210822.EAA19571@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> I really don't want to contribute to this thread but I felt >> compelled to point out that as long as you reside in the Republic of >> California, which is a member state of the United States, then you >> are unfortunately subject to the laws of that nation. > No, because I am officially at war with USA, If you expect that to be taken seriously, you can expect to be simply shot on sight, as an enemy belligerent in wartime. Fortunately for your continued survival, nobody else will take the notion seriously, and you will, if it comes to it, find you _are_ subject to the laws of California and the USA, especially including the penalties for violating them. >> The lawyers of the people who may be suing you > I care about and support the environment and I recycle everything, so > if they sue me, I'll put their papers in the recycle bin. That is an excellent idea - it will, fairly promptly, disabuse you of the delusion that you are not subject to the laws of the state and country you reside in. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From stanb at dial.pipex.com Wed Apr 21 03:07:12 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:55:37 EDT." <20040420215537.GE19595@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <200404210807.JAA21317@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "R. D. Davis" said: > Quothe Stan Barr, from writings of Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 08:46:37AM +0100: > > That's one problem with the Reid, it's getting too darn valuable to take > > out and use! > > Of what value is it if one can't use it? Of course, if you're > referring to the problem of someone stealing it, that's a horse of a > different color, and indeed an unfortunate problem. Apart from the risk of theft, I worry about damaging or marking it in some way. I'm notoriously hard on cameras :-) (I dropped one off a boat and smashed a long telephoto by swinging it into a metal post while panning on a racing car passing!) It does get taken out and used though, old cameras benefit from regular exercise, it keeps the shutters in good order. As for value, the last Reid I saw sold went for 1250 pounds, say $2200. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Apr 21 03:48:12 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: Dead Mac IIfx In-Reply-To: <021c01c42771$def93c00$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Teo Zenios > Sent: 21 April 2004 08:26 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Dead Mac IIfx > > Normal procedure for a dead computer is to remove everything but the > videocard and main ram (in this case special 64 pin SIMMs > that you have to > install 4 at a time in the same bank). > > The IIfx has a special scsi bus and is VERY picky about termination. Yep, done all of that. I'm beginning to wonder about Mark's comments about the battery though, since when I bought it at a car boot sale a few years ago it had 2 very dead PRAM batteries so I put a couple of spares in and away we went. Then it went back into storage while I waited to get my hands on the black external terminator for a CD-ROM and when that came along (with a Radius accelerator and an ethernet card) the machine wouldn't boot even though the batteries were still ok. I'll remove them and leave it for 24 hours. Cheers folks -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From torquil at chemist.com Wed Apr 21 03:53:47 2004 From: torquil at chemist.com (Torquil MacCorkle, III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: Ethics Message-ID: <05ed01c4277e$2b9ba640$0500a8c0@floyd> So about 2.5 years ago, I bought an SGI machine off ebay and the guy let me borrow the IRIX 6.5 media. I never sent them back and contacted him like 4 months later and said "Whoa I forgot to send them back, can I have your address?" I meant to send them, but forgot *again*. I have tried to email him every 5-6 months for the past two years, but his e-mail is dead (domain name is gone) and his ebay account hasn't been used since 2002. What do I do? I am thinking it'd be okay to sell the CDs and if I ever do by some chance find him again, then I can give him the money. I feel really bad about this. Any advice? --- Thanks, Torquil MacCorkle, III Lexington, Virginia From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Apr 21 02:55:18 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:00 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro380, VAXstation In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040420004143.03f4c5b0@getmail.mitton.com> Message-ID: <20040421095518.51225304.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:20:56 +0100 (BST) ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > Has Intel ever made a single LSI chip that worked correctly? I wrote a NetBSD driver for the intel 82596 (successor to the 82586). It is a much better chip, but it still has some issues. E.g. intels verry interresting interpretation of "big endian"... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Apr 21 02:50:53 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: References: <10404202311.ZM9215@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20040421095053.20ae2b98.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:03:36 +0100 (BST) ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > Moreover, 3.1M pixels in the camera aren't 3.1M pixels in the final > > image. It depends how they're used, but in the camera, you > > typically need three pixels, one for each of R, G, and B, to get one > > RGB pixel in the image. Some techniques use even more (the Bayer > > algorithm uses 4). > Argh!. You mean they fiddle the figures? I'd assumed that a 'pixel' > was an RGB triad, not a third of one. So you mean you may only get 1 > million points in the image from a 3.1M pixel camera? Yes. E.g. with Bayer you have four sub-pixel per color pixel: R G G B So you get 640 x 480 = ca. 0.3 M "true" color pixels with a 1280 x 960 "Mega pixel" sesor. The image processing firmware of the camera interpolates this later to 1280 x 960 RGB pixels. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jmw at ptolserv.com Wed Apr 21 04:37:56 2004 From: jmw at ptolserv.com (jmw@ptolserv.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Epson website has vintage product info: cool! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040421103756.04b9a58b@bilbo> On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:45:14 -0700 (PDT) Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I just noticed that Epson's website contains product information > (including manuals and sales brochures) for some of its legacy products > such as the HX-20 and their old line of desktops. Check it out: > I wouldn't be too excited: it is missing most of the interesting manuals for the HX20. In particular, it has the simple User Guide, but not the full european version, and doesn't have either of the Technical references for the HX20 (which I do have). It is also missing the monitor reference manual. I just wish I could get Epson to give permission for them to be on the web as PDFs. From dave04a at dunfield.com Wed Apr 21 06:15:13 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Looking for Atari SC1224 monitor schematic Message-ID: <20040421111513.B01E15DE3@outbox.allstream.net> At 05:26 21/04/2004 +0100, you wrote: >> Hi Tony, >> >> It would appear that you are correct. Once I removed the cover, I could clearly >> tell that the "chirp" is coming from the switching power supply. There appears >> to be no activity from the rest of the monitor, including the fact that even >> with the lights off, I could not observe filaments lighting. The power LED does > >It's not unheard-of for the CRT heater to run off the flyback >transformer. So if the horizontal output stage is dead, there will be no >heater glow. > >> light, however it's fairly dim - I don't know how brightly it would normally >> light. >> >> The final filter capacitor in the supply is rated at 180v DC. I powered the >> supply briefly under no-load and the output rose to 140v. With all the >> connections in place, it is producing about 55v - I have no idea what the >> normal requirements of the monitor are. > >I would guess around twice that voltage at least. Does the PSU have one >output or seceral ? Have you checked if any of them are stuck at 0V? Hi Tony, I've located a set of rather poor schematics (can't really read most of the component values), but it did include 10 pages of troubleshooting information. According to this, the filaments do run off a winding on the flyback. The power supply has three outputs, a main one which is supposed to be 115v, and two smaller (thin wires/connectors) which are supposed to be 12v and 14v. Under no load, I'm measuring 140v, 15v and 17v, shich is probably about right. With the monitor connected, I'm reading about 55v on the main supply, I have not measured the other two as I'd have to remove the PSU board and tack on wires, however since it's a single-switcher design, I'd guess that they were proportinally lower as well. I do not see any obvious physical signs of failure (discolored parts, smoke etc). When I get a chance, I'll go thorugh the troubleshooting charts - they list a number of voltage measurements, waveforms and components to check for these symptoms. I'm really hoping I can get it going, as I do not have another color monitor for the ST's. (When I picked it up I thought it was another mono monitor as there is no external adjustment/indication of color and it looks exactly like my SM124 mono monitor - once I opened it I realised it was a color monitor - I guess "SC" means "Color" (vs "SM"=Mono). Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From bpope at wordstock.com Wed Apr 21 06:35:05 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) In-Reply-To: <056501c42756$48a6acd0$0500a8c0@floyd> from "Torquil MacCorkle, III" at Apr 21, 04 00:08:18 am Message-ID: <200404211135.HAA06902@wordstock.com> And thusly Torquil MacCorkle, III spake: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4125609808 O.. MY.. GOD!! 8-O > > That is *SICK*. I wonder who did the mutilation, if this man did it........ > must. repress. rage... > I think the person who did this is a good candidate to be dipped in molten iron. Cheers, Bryan From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Apr 21 07:20:16 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Altair Goes for over $8000 Message-ID: <008801c4279b$457535a0$29406b43@66067007> Can you believe this? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4123637908 From dancohoe at oxford.net Wed Apr 21 07:31:40 2004 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) In-Reply-To: <1d5.1f38e096.2db760c4@aol.com> Message-ID: <000f01c4279c$997ffda0$6501a8c0@DCOHOE> Yesterday I ran across three PDP11/84's in parts at a scrappers (one day too late). I sorted through the pile of boards and made up a collection including a lot of heavy backplane sections. The chief arrived back from lunch and immediately found me to announce that his was prime material and I'd have to pay at least $5.00 lb. I re-organized my collection throwing back what turned out to be PMI memory boards :-( and a lot of unidentifiable third party items (made by Megadata, Bohemia NY) to reduce the hit but held onto the somewhat strange 11/84 backplane with the combination Qbus / Unibus sections. When I got to the scales, he saw the backplanes and said they were full of palladium and for a little he'd take $5 lb, but for a larger quantity, they'd be more money per lb. I abandoned all of the backplanes at that point. He then pointed out two 11/44's that I'd missed in my search. "What's your offer", he said, "I was going to list them on Ebay and I expect $400 each". I suggested that probably wouldn't happen and offered that I'd bid if he did put them up for auction rather than make an offer here that was far from his dream. His response was that he'd scrap them for not much less than that. I'm not sure what will happen because there's clearly some serious bargaining going on, however, he's quite adamant about the scrap value and prepared to throw stuff in the scrap that I won't pay this price for. His claim is that he actually sends stuff out for custom refining and gets the recovery value of what he sends. These valuations really scare me because it'll put the value beyond what I'm interested in except for a few exceptional pieces. Dan From torquil at chemist.com Wed Apr 21 07:49:22 2004 From: torquil at chemist.com (Torquil MacCorkle, III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) References: <000f01c4279c$997ffda0$6501a8c0@DCOHOE> Message-ID: <063601c4279f$146c6d30$0500a8c0@floyd> > I suggested that probably wouldn't happen and offered that I'd bid if he did > put them up for auction rather than make an offer here that was far from his > dream. His response was that he'd scrap them for not much less than that. > I'm not sure what will happen because there's clearly some serious > bargaining going on, however, he's quite adamant about the scrap value and > prepared to throw stuff in the scrap that I won't pay this price for. His > claim is that he actually sends stuff out for custom refining and gets the > recovery value of what he sends. > > These valuations really scare me because it'll put the value beyond what I'm > interested in except for a few exceptional pieces. This reminds me of typical people who think their stuff is worth way too much and when you point it out, they become defensive and start to get angry and say you don't know what you are talking about. A semi-example of this: The other day I won an Octane on eBay for $50, and the guy called me at home and said "man, I am really sorry but I can't send you this," (which is good as I didn't realize that I didn't have $50 ), "I meant to set a reserve, this is my friends and he told me they typically go for around $30,000, you should've seen me yelling and screaming in hysterics when I saw that it sold for $50 without a reserve!" I kindly told him that they routinely go for eBay for $30-$100 and he mumbled something and kept insisting it was worth at least a few thousand. I guess he is free to say it is worth $30,000, as long as he doesn't sell it to me. ;) --- Thanks, Torquil MacCorkle, III Lexington, Virginia From pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org Wed Apr 21 08:00:41 2004 From: pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Altair Goes for over $8000 References: <008801c4279b$457535a0$29406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <01d301c427a0$a796b920$4601a8c0@ebrius> Somebody in the states was going to send me an IMASI 8080 (the computer I most desire for my collection) but it got *thrown away*. Snif. It must be worth something, as they are setting "new" ones for more than the price of a modern pc. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keys" To: "cctalk@classiccmp" Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 1:20 PM Subject: Altair Goes for over $8000 > Can you believe this? > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4123637908 > "I guess that every form of refuge has its price." --The Eagles -------------------------------------------------------------- Website - http://www.retrobbs.org Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org BBS - http://bbs.retrobbs.org:8000 IRC - irc.retrobbs.org #main WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Apr 21 08:34:41 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: TDC1007 / 1007 / TRW / Rare TRW Processor ? References: <20040419235307.56923.qmail@web80513.mail.yahoo.com> <009e01c426cf$b86fffd0$1100a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Message-ID: <16518.30833.724000.321701@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "John" == John Lawson writes: John> Remembering that this is circa 1978/9 - some specs listed: John> "AT a 19.3 kHtz sampling rate it will implement, for example, John> 24 simple oscillators, or 16 oscillators with ramp envelope John> control, or 8 voices of frequency modulation, or 20 first-order John> filter sections, or 10 second-order filter sections, or 30 John> white noise generators, or various combinations of the above, John> such as 12 oscillators and 4 voices of frequency modulation" Interesting. Something like that was built at the University of Illinois PLATO project, but much lower cost -- 16 small boards (one per channel) and some spare cycles on the 8080 in the terminal to control it. That one was actually mostly analog, each channel having its own D/A and analog volume control. We actually looked at the TRW multiplier approach for a third generation with 128 channels but decided it was too expensive other than as a lab curiosity, which wasn't the goal. This was the "Gooch Cybernetic Synthesizer" by Sherwin Gooch, around 1976. paul From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 21 09:20:34 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040421102034.0089b800@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:21 PM 4/20/04 -0700, you wrote: >On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, O. Sharp wrote: > >> Well, there are worse auctions. I saw this auction and damn near wanted >> to weep: >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4125609808 > >What kind of deleterious ass would auction off gold edge connectors on >eBay? > >Are people really this fucking stupid? > >The above question is rhetorical. I already know the answer is a >stentorian YES. The answer is yes but I've never seen any of them get ANY bids. Joe > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 21 09:24:38 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) In-Reply-To: <4085F8F2.8030404@jcwren.com> References: <056501c42756$48a6acd0$0500a8c0@floyd> <056501c42756$48a6acd0$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040421102438.009167f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:30 AM 4/21/04 -0400, you wrote: >Torquil MacCorkle, III wrote: > >>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4125609808 >>> >>> >> >>That is *SICK*. I wonder who did the mutilation, if this man did it........ >>must. repress. rage... >> >> >> >>--- >>Thanks, >>Torquil MacCorkle, III >>Lexington, Virginia >> >> >> > One thing to remember is that sometimes for equipment to meet the >definition of scrapped, it has to be irrepairably damaged. That's true. Some government agencies require that "items be destroyed beyond it's intended usage". To some surplus managers that means that it has to be shredded but others they simply take the systems apart and sell the units individually. Joe For >instance, IBM has a strict rule that boards that are scrapped for tax >purposes have to be shredded. And when I've been in Austin Electronics, >I've run across boards that have connectors cut off so they can't be >used for their original purpose (tin connectors, so I know no one was >going for the gold). > > While I don't support that kind of mutilation of historically >interesting equipment, do you think it could be such a situation? > > --jc > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 21 09:34:36 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) In-Reply-To: References: <4085F8F2.8030404@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040421103436.00893320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:42 AM 4/21/04 -0400, you wrote: >> One thing to remember is that sometimes for equipment to meet the >> definition of scrapped, it has to be irrepairably damaged. For >> instance, IBM has a strict rule that boards that are scrapped for tax >> purposes have to be shredded. > >USR used to drill holes in the boards at random places. One of my more "interesting" experiences was with a Hewlett Packard HP-IB hard disk drive. I bought it surplus and a quick inspection didn't reveal anything unusual. Then it powered it up and the drive started making a clanging sound that quickly changed to something that sounded like a clothes dryer running full sped with a load of scrap meal in it! I turned it off and inspected it but didn't see anything unusual until I removed the actual hard drive AND turned it upside down. Someone had drilled a 1/4" hole through the cover of the drive and all the platters. Needless to say, the chips and burrs on the platter quickly crashed the heads and ripped them to shreds and it became a sort of hispeed blender after that! If you know anything about Hewlett Packards's external HP-IB drives, you know that someone went to a LOT of trouble to get it apart, remove the drive and drill a hole in and put everything back together exactly the way that it was supposed to be. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 21 09:37:03 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: HP 64000 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <200404210420.i3L4KCU15564@echo.uptimesg.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040420081308.0089f740@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040421103703.00893bb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:20 PM 4/20/04 -0700, you wrote: >Unfortunately I'm in Northern California, otherwise I would drive there!! > >What part of central Florida? I have a couple friends that 'owe me a favor.' I'm in Oviedo (east side of Orlando). The 64000s are about 45 minutes from here. Joe > >Regards, >Tony > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org >> [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Joe R. >> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 5:13 AM >> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >> Subject: RE: HP 64000 in Kansas City >> >> At 09:31 PM 4/19/04 -0700, you wrote: >> >Joe, are they still available?? >> >> >> I think they're still there but they won't be for long >> since they're cleaning up the place. They're located in >> centrl Florida. NO I can't pack them or store them. I'm >> storing so much stuff for other people now that some of my >> own stuff is sitting outside and getting ruined. These are >> big heavy suckers so bring a truck! >> >> Joe >> >> >> > >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org >> >> [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Joe R. >> >> Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 8:28 PM >> >> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >> >> Subject: Re: HP 64000 in Kansas City >> >> >> >> At 11:01 AM 4/8/04 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >On 8 Apr 2004 at 7:47, Joe R. wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> The 64000 and 64100 are very different machines. >> >> > >> >> >Please elaborate. >> >> >> >> You said it yourself: >> >> "My understanding (from owning two since 1985) is that the >> "HP 64000" >> >> is a product line. The development station mainframes (desktop, >> >> portable) " >> >> >> >> >> >> Maybe I'm wrong but as I recall, the 64000 is a LARGE >> desktop unit >> >> with about a 13 or 14 inch screen, keyboard etc all built into one >> >> BIG unit. The 64100 is portable machine that's similar is size and >> >> style to a Kaypro computer (but slightly larger). The two >> do similar >> >> jobs but they're very different in size and weight. Due to >> the very >> >> different styles of construction and size, I'm sure that they use >> >> very different interface cards. >> >> >> >> I have a couple of both but I've never used the 64100 and I >> >> haven't used the 64000 in a long time. FWIW I just passed >> up a couple >> >> of 64000s in a scrap place. >> >> >> >> Joe >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >Quoting from the "HP 64000 Logic Development System Selection and >> >> >Configuration Guide" (July 1985): >> >> > >> >> > NUMBERING SYSTEM >> >> > >> >> > Following is a breakdown of the 64000 System Numbering scheme. >> >> > The product line is 64XXX in which XXX is: >> >> > >> >> > 001-099: Mainframe Options >> >> > 100-149: Mainframes >> >> > 150-169: Emulation Memory and Controllers >> >> > 190-299: Emulation Modules >> >> > 300-350: Internal Analyzers >> >> > 500-530: PROM Programmers >> >> > 600-620: Timing Analysis >> >> > 630 : State Probes >> >> > 650-799: State Preprocessors >> >> > 810-830: Compilers >> >> > 840-859: Assemblers >> >> > 930-939: Special Support Services >> >> > 940-959: Field Installed Mainframe Options >> >> > 960-965: Cables >> >> > 980-999: Manual Sets >> >> > >> >> >...and: >> >> > >> >> > DEFINITIONS >> >> > >> >> > DEVELOPMENT STATION: The HP64000 station; model numbers >> 64100A and >> >> > 64110A. >> >> > >> >> >My understanding (from owning two since 1985) is that the >> >> "HP 64000" is a >> >> >product line. The development station mainframes (desktop, >> >> portable) are >> >> >models 64100A and 64110A, respectively. >> >> > >> >> >(This is analogous to the "HP 1000," which is a system. The >> >> actual CPU box >> >> >carries its own model number, e.g., 2108B for an M-Series >> >> with the upgraded >> >> >power supply and nine I/O slots, or 2109E for the equivalent >> >> E-Series. "HP >> >> >1000" wasn't an orderable product number, at least according >> >> to the "HP >> >> >1000 Computer Systems Ordering Guide," 5953-8773D, February 1986.) >> >> > >> >> > -- Dave >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 21 13:37:03 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: HP 64000 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <200404210420.i3L4KCU15564@echo.uptimesg.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040420081308.0089f740@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040421143703.008a0820@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:20 PM 4/20/04 -0700, you wrote: >Unfortunately I'm in Northern California, otherwise I would drive there!! > >What part of central Florida? I have a couple friends that 'owe me a favor.' I'm in Oviedo (east side of Orlando). The 64000s are about 45 minutes from here. Joe > >Regards, >Tony > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org >> [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Joe R. >> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 5:13 AM >> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >> Subject: RE: HP 64000 in Kansas City >> >> At 09:31 PM 4/19/04 -0700, you wrote: >> >Joe, are they still available?? >> >> >> I think they're still there but they won't be for long >> since they're cleaning up the place. They're located in >> centrl Florida. NO I can't pack them or store them. I'm >> storing so much stuff for other people now that some of my >> own stuff is sitting outside and getting ruined. These are >> big heavy suckers so bring a truck! >> >> Joe >> >> >> > >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org >> >> [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Joe R. >> >> Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 8:28 PM >> >> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >> >> Subject: Re: HP 64000 in Kansas City >> >> >> >> At 11:01 AM 4/8/04 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >On 8 Apr 2004 at 7:47, Joe R. wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> The 64000 and 64100 are very different machines. >> >> > >> >> >Please elaborate. >> >> >> >> You said it yourself: >> >> "My understanding (from owning two since 1985) is that the >> "HP 64000" >> >> is a product line. The development station mainframes (desktop, >> >> portable) " >> >> >> >> >> >> Maybe I'm wrong but as I recall, the 64000 is a LARGE >> desktop unit >> >> with about a 13 or 14 inch screen, keyboard etc all built into one >> >> BIG unit. The 64100 is portable machine that's similar is size and >> >> style to a Kaypro computer (but slightly larger). The two >> do similar >> >> jobs but they're very different in size and weight. Due to >> the very >> >> different styles of construction and size, I'm sure that they use >> >> very different interface cards. >> >> >> >> I have a couple of both but I've never used the 64100 and I >> >> haven't used the 64000 in a long time. FWIW I just passed >> up a couple >> >> of 64000s in a scrap place. >> >> >> >> Joe >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >Quoting from the "HP 64000 Logic Development System Selection and >> >> >Configuration Guide" (July 1985): >> >> > >> >> > NUMBERING SYSTEM >> >> > >> >> > Following is a breakdown of the 64000 System Numbering scheme. >> >> > The product line is 64XXX in which XXX is: >> >> > >> >> > 001-099: Mainframe Options >> >> > 100-149: Mainframes >> >> > 150-169: Emulation Memory and Controllers >> >> > 190-299: Emulation Modules >> >> > 300-350: Internal Analyzers >> >> > 500-530: PROM Programmers >> >> > 600-620: Timing Analysis >> >> > 630 : State Probes >> >> > 650-799: State Preprocessors >> >> > 810-830: Compilers >> >> > 840-859: Assemblers >> >> > 930-939: Special Support Services >> >> > 940-959: Field Installed Mainframe Options >> >> > 960-965: Cables >> >> > 980-999: Manual Sets >> >> > >> >> >...and: >> >> > >> >> > DEFINITIONS >> >> > >> >> > DEVELOPMENT STATION: The HP64000 station; model numbers >> 64100A and >> >> > 64110A. >> >> > >> >> >My understanding (from owning two since 1985) is that the >> >> "HP 64000" is a >> >> >product line. The development station mainframes (desktop, >> >> portable) are >> >> >models 64100A and 64110A, respectively. >> >> > >> >> >(This is analogous to the "HP 1000," which is a system. The >> >> actual CPU box >> >> >carries its own model number, e.g., 2108B for an M-Series >> >> with the upgraded >> >> >power supply and nine I/O slots, or 2109E for the equivalent >> >> E-Series. "HP >> >> >1000" wasn't an orderable product number, at least according >> >> to the "HP >> >> >1000 Computer Systems Ordering Guide," 5953-8773D, February 1986.) >> >> > >> >> > -- Dave >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 21 09:45:55 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) In-Reply-To: <000f01c4279c$997ffda0$6501a8c0@DCOHOE> References: <1d5.1f38e096.2db760c4@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040421104555.00912e10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:31 AM 4/21/04 -0400, you wrote: >Yesterday I ran across three PDP11/84's in parts at a scrappers (one day too >late). I sorted through the pile of boards and made up a collection >including a lot of heavy backplane sections. The chief arrived back from >lunch and immediately found me to announce that his was prime material and >I'd have to pay at least $5.00 lb. > >I re-organized my collection throwing back what turned out to be PMI memory >boards :-( and a lot of unidentifiable third party items (made by Megadata, >Bohemia NY) to reduce the hit but held onto the somewhat strange 11/84 >backplane with the combination Qbus / Unibus sections. > >When I got to the scales, he saw the backplanes and said they were full of >palladium and for a little he'd take $5 lb, but for a larger quantity, >they'd be more money per lb. I abandoned all of the backplanes at that >point. > >He then pointed out two 11/44's that I'd missed in my search. "What's your >offer", he said, "I was going to list them on Ebay and I expect $400 each". > >I suggested that probably wouldn't happen and offered that I'd bid if he did >put them up for auction rather than make an offer here that was far from his >dream. His response was that he'd scrap them for not much less than that. >I'm not sure what will happen because there's clearly some serious >bargaining going on, however, he's quite adamant about the scrap value and >prepared to throw stuff in the scrap that I won't pay this price for. His >claim is that he actually sends stuff out for custom refining and gets the >recovery value of what he sends. I found that most scrappers are real BS artists! I recently found a big stack of Nova core memory boards. The scrapper swore that they were full of gold and wanted $6/lb for them. The only gold on them was a trace in the card edge connectors. Needless to say I passed on them. They're still sitting there two years later (but they've been in the weather so they're probably ruined by now). Joe > >These valuations really scare me because it'll put the value beyond what I'm >interested in except for a few exceptional pieces. > >Dan > > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 21 09:39:23 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: Ethics In-Reply-To: <05ed01c4277e$2b9ba640$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040421103923.009119e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:53 AM 4/21/04 -0400, you wrote: >So about 2.5 years ago, I bought an SGI machine off ebay and the guy let me >borrow the IRIX 6.5 media. I never sent them back and contacted him like 4 >months later and said "Whoa I forgot to send them back, can I have your >address?" I meant to send them, but forgot *again*. I have tried to email >him every 5-6 months for the past two years, but his e-mail is dead (domain >name is gone) and his ebay account hasn't been used since 2002. What do I >do? > >I am thinking it'd be okay to sell the CDs and if I ever do by some chance >find him again, then I can give him the money. > >I feel really bad about this. > >Any advice? You should still have his S-mail address. Drop him a card or a letter explaining the situation and ask for his phone number and/or E-mail address. Once you have that you should be able to arrange to get the stuff back to him. Joe > >--- >Thanks, >Torquil MacCorkle, III >Lexington, Virginia > > From cheri-post at web.de Wed Apr 21 09:48:39 2004 From: cheri-post at web.de (Pierre Gebhardt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: DEC VR241-A color monitor in Germany available ! Message-ID: <342743333@web.de> Hello all ! If anyone needs a VR241-A monitor...I can get one for free. It's located in Darmstadt (Germany). The institute will throw it away if nobody is interested. Unfortunately, I can't test it 'cause I do not have a DEC Rainbow. Just send me an email: cheri-post at web.de Cheers Pierre _____________________________________________________________________ Der WEB.DE Virenschutz schuetzt Ihr Postfach vor dem Wurm Netsky.A-P! Kostenfrei fuer alle FreeMail Nutzer. http://f.web.de/?mc=021157 From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Wed Apr 21 09:53:42 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Altair Goes for over $8000 In-Reply-To: <008801c4279b$457535a0$29406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <20040421145342.61704.qmail@web12406.mail.yahoo.com> --- Keys wrote: > Can you believe this? > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4123637908 Thats probably a record high, but it did have an original box, was in great shape, and some good ad copy didn't hurt. Seems like there were Altairs on ebay every week for years, then nothing for several months, pent up demand I guess. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 21 09:55:25 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Dead Mac IIfx In-Reply-To: <007101c42777$8c967a80$4601a8c0@ebrius> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, Mark Firestone wrote: > Remove your good PRAM battery for 24 hours, with the machine unplugged. > > This used to fix about 90% of them. This is really nice to know. I tried bringing a few Mac II's to life to no avail a few months back. I figured there had to be a trick because they could not ALL have been dead. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From torquil at chemist.com Wed Apr 21 09:57:52 2004 From: torquil at chemist.com (Torquil MacCorkle, III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: Ethics References: <3.0.6.32.20040421103923.009119e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001c01c427b1$06f04200$0500a8c0@floyd> > You should still have his S-mail address. Drop him a card or a letter > explaining the situation and ask for his phone number and/or E-mail > address. Once you have that you should be able to arrange to get the stuff > back to him. I don't even have that, last time I spoke to him I recall him saying he moved, since then I have wiped my email numerous times, and his ebay address is outdated. I am stuck. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 21 09:56:33 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <200404210822.EAA19571@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, der Mouse wrote: > >> I really don't want to contribute to this thread but I felt > >> compelled to point out that as long as you reside in the Republic of > >> California, which is a member state of the United States, then you > >> are unfortunately subject to the laws of that nation. > > No, because I am officially at war with USA, > > If you expect that to be taken seriously, you can expect to be simply > shot on sight, as an enemy belligerent in wartime. I think comments like that will land you at the Guantanamo Hilton these days. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 21 09:59:35 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: Ethics In-Reply-To: <05ed01c4277e$2b9ba640$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, Torquil MacCorkle, III wrote: > So about 2.5 years ago, I bought an SGI machine off ebay and the guy let me > borrow the IRIX 6.5 media. I never sent them back and contacted him like 4 > months later and said "Whoa I forgot to send them back, can I have your > address?" I meant to send them, but forgot *again*. I have tried to email > him every 5-6 months for the past two years, but his e-mail is dead (domain > name is gone) and his ebay account hasn't been used since 2002. What do I > do? > > I am thinking it'd be okay to sell the CDs and if I ever do by some chance > find him again, then I can give him the money. Dude, you don't own the disks. You have no right to sell them. > I feel really bad about this. You should. > Any advice? Use the available internet resources to track him down, get his new address, then get a box, place the media in some bubble wrap and then in the box, seal the box, take it to the post office, pay the clerk for postage, and GET HIM BACK HIS CDs. I'll bet his eBay account is still current for starters... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 21 10:01:06 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Epson website has vintage product info: cool! In-Reply-To: <20040421103756.04b9a58b@bilbo> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 jmw@ptolserv.com wrote: > I wouldn't be too excited: it is missing most of the interesting manuals > for the HX20. In particular, it has the simple User Guide, but not the > full european version, and doesn't have either of the Technical > references for the HX20 (which I do have). It is also missing the monitor > reference manual. I'll wager that someone with persistence could offer to send them a PDF of the full user guide and the technical manuals for them to post to that page. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Apr 21 10:22:32 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: DEC VR241-A color monitor in Germany available ! References: <342743333@web.de> Message-ID: <16518.37304.835000.264937@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Pierre" == Pierre Gebhardt writes: Pierre> Hello all ! If anyone needs a VR241-A monitor...I can get Pierre> one for free. It's located in Darmstadt (Germany). The Pierre> institute will throw it away if nobody is interested. Pierre> Unfortunately, I can't test it 'cause I do not have a DEC Pierre> Rainbow. It should also work with a PRO. For that matter, it's a standard TV signal; you might be able to test it by feeding a TV signal into it from a VCR or the like. (Only possible issue is whether it expects US timing rather than European video timing...) paul From allain at panix.com Wed Apr 21 10:29:44 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) References: Message-ID: <00f201c427b5$797fd0c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Sounds like we need a scrap-FAQ. What is the price of Gold, Palladium, Copper, Iron, etc. Where is each found in circuitry? What is the weight per square inch (pads), etc. Then if you have to deal with scrappers, know your stuff and deal with the information that they think with. John A. From allain at panix.com Wed Apr 21 10:39:50 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: Ethics References: <05ed01c4277e$2b9ba640$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: <010e01c427b6$e2b28d20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Any advice? Send a _Letter_ to his last filed address, with a request for him to mail (or he can email if he wants) back to you with a request for the media. This since email no longer works. You should have kept the address. Also you might try a phonecall, using the address information. Selling the CDs (presumably after this fails) is also offensive since the content could be irreplaceable. John A. From pcw at mesanet.com Wed Apr 21 10:43:22 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <20040421095053.20ae2b98.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:03:36 +0100 (BST) > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > > > Moreover, 3.1M pixels in the camera aren't 3.1M pixels in the final > > > image. It depends how they're used, but in the camera, you > > > typically need three pixels, one for each of R, G, and B, to get one > > > RGB pixel in the image. Some techniques use even more (the Bayer > > > algorithm uses 4). > > Argh!. You mean they fiddle the figures? I'd assumed that a 'pixel' > > was an RGB triad, not a third of one. So you mean you may only get 1 > > million points in the image from a 3.1M pixel camera? > Yes. E.g. with Bayer you have four sub-pixel per color pixel: > R G > G B > So you get 640 x 480 = ca. 0.3 M "true" color pixels with a 1280 x 960 > "Mega pixel" sesor. The image processing firmware of the camera > interpolates this later to 1280 x 960 RGB pixels. > -- And this interpolation is very apparent when you try to take pictures of things like PC cards with fine pitch ASICs. Anything with a high spacial frequency and multiple colors is royally screwed. Digital camera manufacturers (and scanner Manufacturers) have gotten away with this deception for quite a while. There is no reason tha cameras or scanners should be rated any differently than LCD monitors (where 1024x768 is really 1024x768 triples) > > > tschüß, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ > > Peter Wallace From tony.eros at machm.org Wed Apr 21 10:43:21 2004 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: Ethics In-Reply-To: <001c01c427b1$06f04200$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: <200404211543.LAA50443@smtp.9netave.com> You could try using something like four11.com to do a state-by-state search for him in public phone listings. If his name is Johann Gambulputti, you might have a shot at tracking him down. Of course, if it's John Smith, you can salve your conscience with the thought that if he really wanted the distribution back, he could always drop you a line. -- Tony -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Torquil MacCorkle, III Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 10:58 AM To: Joe R. Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Slightly OT: Ethics > You should still have his S-mail address. Drop him a card or a letter > explaining the situation and ask for his phone number and/or E-mail > address. Once you have that you should be able to arrange to get the stuff > back to him. I don't even have that, last time I spoke to him I recall him saying he moved, since then I have wiped my email numerous times, and his ebay address is outdated. I am stuck. From tony.eros at machm.org Wed Apr 21 10:45:37 2004 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: Ethics In-Reply-To: <001c01c427b1$06f04200$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: <200404211545.LAA51245@smtp.9netave.com> Another thought -- did he own the now-expired domain? I'm pretty sure NSI maintains whois records of expired domains. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Torquil MacCorkle, III Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 10:58 AM To: Joe R. Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Slightly OT: Ethics > You should still have his S-mail address. Drop him a card or a letter > explaining the situation and ask for his phone number and/or E-mail > address. Once you have that you should be able to arrange to get the stuff > back to him. I don't even have that, last time I spoke to him I recall him saying he moved, since then I have wiped my email numerous times, and his ebay address is outdated. I am stuck. From cb at mythtech.net Wed Apr 21 10:49:18 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Dead Mac IIfx Message-ID: >This is really nice to know. I tried bringing a few Mac II's to life to >no avail a few months back. I figured there had to be a trick because >they could not ALL have been dead. Many Macs get stuck when the PRAM battery is dead or dying. Some won't do anything, some will start but not boot (power on, spin up the drives, and just hang at the grey self test screen), some will boot but you will get no video... and some will just act plain wonky. On some Macs, there is a 'CUDA' switch (no idea what CUDA stands for... anyone know?). Its a little tiny push buttin switch on the logic board. Pressing that switch will do a deap PRAM reset, which will usually cure the dead battery issue (although if the battery doesn't get replaced, the issue will come back eventually). This can be done in place of removing the battery for 24 hours (but not all Macs have the CUDA switch, so some you are just stuck pulling the battery). -chris From torquil at chemist.com Wed Apr 21 11:08:57 2004 From: torquil at chemist.com (Torquil MacCorkle, III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: Ethics References: Message-ID: <009601c427ba$f5745a20$0500a8c0@floyd> > Dude, you don't own the disks. You have no right to sell them. What am I supposed to do if it becomes obvious I am not going to be able to track the guy down? (which it has, except for the new idea of trying name lookup directories, I do know his name and his former city and state.) > Use the available internet resources to track him down, get his new > address, then get a box, place the media in some bubble wrap and then in > the box, seal the box, take it to the post office, pay the clerk for > postage, and GET HIM BACK HIS CDs. > > I'll bet his eBay account is still current for starters... Well it isn't the e-mail account it is registered to is completely dead and has been for 2 years. I am going to try using an internet directory as some others suggested. I appreciate the advice (although it seems I have been misinterpreted) and hope everyone doesn't think I am some kind of miserable lying bastard. This was an honest mistake. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Apr 21 12:00:41 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Altair Goes for over $8000 Message-ID: <200404211700.KAA10977@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Mark Firestone" `> >Somebody in the states was going to send me an IMASI 8080 (the computer I >most desire for my collection) but it got *thrown away*. Snif. It must be >worth something, as they are setting "new" ones for more than the price of a >modern pc. > > Hi Depending on a number of factors, an original IMSAI 8080 goes for anywhere from $800 to $2500 on ebay someplace. If you'd told your state side friend that, I'm sure they wouldn't have thrown it out, thinking it had little value. The new ones are not the same but have the same look and feel. Dwight From cb at mythtech.net Wed Apr 21 12:00:57 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: Ethics Message-ID: >What am I supposed to do if it becomes obvious I am not going to be able to >track the guy down? (which it has, except for the new idea of trying name >lookup directories, I do know his name and his former city and state.) You could pass them on to the next person that needs a copy. Or even start a "library" of sorts with it. You send it to someone, they use it and send it back, and you hold it until the next person needs it. Of course, that gets into copyright issues, but I'd assume either you aren't worried, or it doesn't apply, if you already "borrowed" a copy to begin with. >and hope everyone doesn't think I am some kind of miserable >lying bastard. This was an honest mistake. Like someone else pointed out, don't be TOO hard on yourself... had the guy REALLY wanted it back, he would have hounded you for it (unless he did, and you just didn't share that fact). I don't know about others, but I NEVER loan my only copy of something to anyone that I can't drive to their house and beat them until they give it back (and even then, they have to be someone I know well and trust). But I will happily loan extra copies of something, or duplicates of it. In those cases, I except the fact that I may never see it again, and I don't care... if a basic attempt doesn't get it returned, then I just write it off. Good chance this guy was the same way. -chris From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Apr 21 12:04:20 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) In-Reply-To: <00f201c427b5$797fd0c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: > What is the price of Gold, Palladium, Copper, Iron, etc. Very tough question, as it become very involved. Also, the markets can fluctuate so much - steel worth several cents a pound today was near worthless six months back. Tantalum also swings greatly. > Where is each found in circuitry? Gold is found all over the place. Obvious places are on gold chips (duh!), edge fingers, connectors, and switches. Hidden gold is found in the some circuit boards (under the ink and solder), inside crystals and diodes, older style metal transistors, and even in many rather boring looking chips. Palladium and Rhoduim are found in Relays and a lot of IBM things. Copper is everywhere - boards, coils, transformers, relays, motors, etc. Silver is actually not much of an issue. A lot of wire wrap wire is silver plated, but the scrappers really don't like this stuff - too little silver to deal with, and it contaminates the copper. Even silver plated cavities are a pain - the brass is worth more than the silver. Tantalum is found in capacitors and in some tubes. > What is the weight per square inch (pads), etc. I always thought this was handy: http://www.mrsscrap.com/scrapvalue.html William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Apr 21 12:08:29 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Altair Goes for over $8000 Message-ID: <200404211708.KAA10983@clulw009.amd.com> >From: steve > >--- Keys wrote: >> Can you believe this? >> >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4123637908 > > >Thats probably a record high, but it did have an >original box, was in great shape, and some good ad >copy didn't hurt. Seems like there were Altairs on >ebay every week for years, then nothing for several >months, pent up demand I guess. > Hi I wonder if the buyer thought that the words, "powers up" means that it is fully functional? All it means is that some LED's came on and there was no smoke. Dwight From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Apr 21 12:52:29 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040421104555.00912e10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <1d5.1f38e096.2db760c4@aol.com> <3.0.6.32.20040421104555.00912e10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040421175229.GI19595@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Joe R., from writings of Wed, Apr 21, 2004 at 10:45:55AM -0400: > I found that most scrappers are real BS artists! I recently found a big About twenty years ago, there used to be a small-time scrapper not far from here, but not close enough to go to often. This scrapper ran what was mostly a combination of a flea-market/junk shop where one would find anything from old records, decorations, antiques, household items, hardware (not computers, but things like old pulleys, etc.), etc... you name it, there was a chance of it being there. He also had some old electronic and computer equipment, and one would sometimes see him disaembling electronic equipment, minicomputers, etc. He made it clear that he didn't want anyone going near his "treasures" that he was scrapping for gold; he'd become very agitated and somewhat unpleasant if one even looked at some of the equipment. At the time, I was working part-time and attending college, so I couldn't make what he probably would have considered reasonable offers for old computer equipment. No idea where any other scrappers are in this area. > stack of Nova core memory boards. The scrapper swore that they were full of > gold and wanted $6/lb for them. The only gold on them was a trace in the > card edge connectors. Needless to say I passed on them. They're still > sitting there two years later (but they've been in the weather so they're > probably ruined by now). :-( -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From mmaginnis1151 at msn.com Wed Apr 21 12:55:50 2004 From: mmaginnis1151 at msn.com (Michael Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Simple Apple Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4086B5A6.4090408@msn.com> Seth Lewin wrote: > >>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>Message-ID: <20040420032322.648836B19@outbox.allstream.net> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>Re: Simple Apple Questions >> ---- > > > > Seems to me that if the book is out of print and the machine a > long-discontinued one that you'd be on safe ground sharing scans of > reference material for free. Apple's lawyers, never a shy group, will > certainly let you know if they object. I've got a couple of hardbound Apple > reference manuals here too - for the ImageWriter LQ and for the LaserWriter > II and would be glad to scan portions for anyone needing such info. > > Seth Lewin > > > . > There's a thread going on over in the comp.sys.apple2 newsgroup right now started by someone who had his eBay auctions canceled. He was auctioning Appleworks GS manuals; the only idea anyone could come up with for why they were canceled is that Apple (who requested the cancellations) sees selling the manuals without the software as promotion of piracy - even of software long-discontinued and unavailable. It wouldn't surprise me if the lawyers adopted a similar stance on scanned manuals, even ones not tied to a particular software product. -- Mike #===== =====# # Apple II user since 1983 # # "Fighting the frizzies at eleven" # #===== =====# From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Apr 21 13:01:39 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: "John Allain" "Re: Other collecting activities?" (Apr 20, 23:53) References: <10404202311.ZM9215@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <001501c42754$2e0da9c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <10404211901.ZM10162@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 20, 23:53, John Allain wrote: [ Pete wrote ] > > Hi-res 35mm is probably better than that. Kodachrome certainly > > is; it can resolve a couple of thousand lines per *millimeter* under > > ideal conditions. > > Can this be backed up with published information? Good question. I can't find any actual figures on Kodak's website. The figure I used is one I saw in a couple of places on the web, and in some old notes (see LP Clerc, Photography: Theory & Practice, sec.349). I used to be really into photography, and about 30 years ago, and I did a 3-year HND course which included a lot of theory. I've seen references to about 1/10th or even 1/20th of that in various places, too. That seems too low, but there could be several reasons for that. Firstly, it used to be the case that only Kodak would process Kodachrome -- one of the reasons professionals used to use it only for special purposes, preferring Ektachrome because it could be processed locally (and therefore quicker, and with "adjustments"). That's no longer the case, but I don't know if Kodak have changed the process (quite likely) or just made it available to other processors. I do know that professionals could get a different service from Kodak than normal users (because I could, via the college I studied at) and that could make a big difference to the results. We used to reckon a 35mm Kodachrome slide roughly comparable to a 6x6cm Ektachrome. Not that Ektachrome's at all poor: want a good colour print? Take an Ektachrome slide and make a Cibachrome print. Except I don't think you can get Cibachrome any more. The low figures I've seen for Kodachrome have been on pages where it's compared to other colour films, and I think they're suspect, because I don't think they're the result of optimal (or even close) conditions. I'd be prepared to believe that 2000 lines/mm is a theoretical figure based on grain size. If so, that won't be the true figure for a real exposure in a real camera, so I'd take it with a pinch of salt. A "good" lens on a 35mm camera typically has a resolving power no better than 150-200 lines/mm (ref LP Clerc again, and MJ Langford, Advanced Photography). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From stanb at dial.pipex.com Wed Apr 21 04:01:04 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:01:52 EDT." <20040421080152.9AE3F10B1310@swift.conman.org> Message-ID: <200404210901.KAA21921@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, spc@conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) said: > I have seen > pictures from a 15MP camera (I forgot who) that were gorgeous (huge things > ... the jpegs alone where ridiculously huge) but it isn't on the market yet > (test camera). I was recently reading a report of a 22MP back for Hasselblad, Bronica etc. that looks quite interesting but costs serious money. There are digital backs for plate cameras, but I don't even want to think about what they cost :-) I have some hi-res scans of slides and they are over 64Mb each, you could soon fill up a disk with them! -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Apr 21 13:21:01 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: Jochen Kunz "Re: Other collecting activities?" (Apr 21, 9:50) References: <10404202311.ZM9215@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20040421095053.20ae2b98.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <10404211921.ZM10181@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 21, 9:50, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:03:36 +0100 (BST) > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > > > Moreover, 3.1M pixels in the camera aren't 3.1M pixels in the final > > > image. It depends how they're used, but in the camera, you > > > typically need three pixels, one for each of R, G, and B, to get one > > > RGB pixel in the image. Some techniques use even more (the Bayer > > > algorithm uses 4). > > Argh!. You mean they fiddle the figures? I'd assumed that a 'pixel' > > was an RGB triad, not a third of one. So you mean you may only get 1 > > million points in the image from a 3.1M pixel camera? > Yes. E.g. with Bayer you have four sub-pixel per color pixel: > R G > G B > So you get 640 x 480 = ca. 0.3 M "true" color pixels with a 1280 x 960 > "Mega pixel" sesor. The image processing firmware of the camera > interpolates this later to 1280 x 960 RGB pixels. Exactly, and that's what my (nasty cheap) digital camera does. Looking at the source for parts of gphoto suggests that's common, so I wouldn't be at all surprised to find it's the norm, even for higher-end cameras. If you were a camera manufacturer, and your competitors claimed 1.3Mpixels, would you be more honest and claim 0.4? But I don't actually know. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Apr 21 13:24:39 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Camera's are off topic! Message-ID: <001901c427cd$e8b87c40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> TSIA, thanks! Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Apr 21 13:33:57 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: Ethics In-Reply-To: "Torquil MacCorkle, III" "Re: Slightly OT: Ethics" (Apr 21, 12:08) References: <009601c427ba$f5745a20$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: <10404211933.ZM10187@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 21, 12:08, Torquil MacCorkle, III wrote: > > Dude, you don't own the disks. You have no right to sell them. True, and there's another factor: SGI's licence for the software on those CDs prohibits them being passed on to another person except when transferred with a machine licensed to use them. SGI have occasionally been known to get shirty about that. > What am I supposed to do if it becomes obvious I am not going to be able to > track the guy down? (which it has, except for the new idea of trying name > lookup directories, I do know his name and his former city and state.) > I appreciate the advice (although it seems I have been > misinterpreted) and hope everyone doesn't think I am some kind of miserable > lying bastard. This was an honest mistake. I realised that from your post. I'd suggest that you take reasonable steps to track down the owner, and if that fails, keep them. If the owner were really desperate to have them back, he'd probably have contacted you (assuming *he* has *your* contact info). Anyway, you might need them yourself, if you get an SGI machine without CDs (like the Octane you mentioned elsewhere). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From tomj at wps.com Wed Apr 21 13:39:44 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:01 2005 Subject: 3M Tape Drive on eBay In-Reply-To: <000601c426e4$85d2f310$2201a8c0@finans> References: <20040420030109.861.qmail@mail.seefried.com><002f01c426c9$685b1c60$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> <20040420141637.GB19595@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <000601c426e4$85d2f310$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Nico de Jong wrote: > When you look at the cable trees on the back, you might get the impression > that it is a 7-track drive Or some wacky custom analog data recorder, hence the large reels, but there's a lot of BNCs back there. "MINCOM" might be a hint, nothing obvious in 60 seconds of googling. From allain at panix.com Wed Apr 21 13:34:13 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? References: <10404202311.ZM9215@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <001501c42754$2e0da9c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <10404211901.ZM10162@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <000f01c427cf$3f062f60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > typically has a resolving power no better than 150-200 lines/mm Yes, those are the numbers I've been getting, here with film (below). Still, that's about 2X what I was expecting. http://www.popphoto.com/assets/download/7222003125937.pdf : Resolution Very High (= 150~190 lp/mm) (what would be 19+Mpx) Kodak Elite Chrome 100, Kodachrome 200, several others Medium (= 90~99 lp/mm) (what would be 7 Mpx) FujiColor Press 1600 Prof. Wonder how Grain size and Resolution 'compare and contrast', as they say in academia? I was heavy into cameras and their use before computers were generally available, before starting college in 1976. Sort of my first professional gadget. John A. From tomj at wps.com Wed Apr 21 13:43:44 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Um, was there a... [Otrona Attache] In-Reply-To: <000601c42746$43d82810$3002a8c0@intelceleron> References: <000601c42746$43d82810$3002a8c0@intelceleron> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Don wrote: > Hello, I have been searching for the system disks for the Otrona for a couple of years now. Do you still have these disks? I would appreciate any help you can provide. Regards, Don Alas, I didn't get image copies of boot disks, but many Otrona files are here: http://wps.com/archives/Otrona-Attache-8-16-diskettes/index.html THere are 8:16 stuff plus plain old CP/M-80 Otro From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Apr 21 13:52:02 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: 3M Tape Drive on eBay References: <20040420030109.861.qmail@mail.seefried.com> <002f01c426c9$685b1c60$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> <20040420141637.GB19595@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <000601c426e4$85d2f310$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: <16518.49874.998000.711789@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Jennings writes: Tom> On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Nico de Jong wrote: >> When you look at the cable trees on the back, you might get the >> impression that it is a 7-track drive Tom> Or some wacky custom analog data recorder, hence the large Tom> reels, but there's a lot of BNCs back there. Reasonable enough; I remember seeing datasheets for instrumentation recorder heads with 15 channels and perhaps twice that. paul From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Apr 21 14:42:57 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Dead Mac IIfx In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of chris > Sent: 21 April 2004 16:49 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Dead Mac IIfx > > Pressing that switch will do a deap PRAM reset, which will > usually cure the dead battery issue (although if the battery > doesn't get replaced, the issue will come back eventually). > This can be done in place of removing the battery for 24 > hours (but not all Macs have the CUDA switch, so some you are > just stuck pulling the battery). Thanks Chris, I'll have a look for that tonight and just pull the batteries if it's not there. Cheers w From hal at hal.demon.nl Wed Apr 21 03:28:03 2004 From: hal at hal.demon.nl (Hal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Canon BJIF-3020 serial board users manual? References: <009b01c41dad$54dddb70$cd563f04@miroslav2><004b01c41db9$1f32e180$5b01a8c0@athlon> <20040409094859.2b9a98fb.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <001001c4277a$9af99dc0$0c01a8c0@outpost> Hello Folks, It's not that old, but i am searching for a Canon BJIF-3020 serial board manual. It's a serial board for in a Canon BJ-300/330 printer. Can't get it to work on my Alpha box, so i guess the serial settings of the printer are incorrect. But i cant find a manual anywhere (have the original BJ-330 user and programmer manual, but that doesn't provide any solution) Thanks! From mcwright at laca.org Wed Apr 21 08:51:20 2004 From: mcwright at laca.org (Marlene Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Available: DEC LA120 printer Message-ID: <000601c427a7$b9fc5500$0b0c460a@marlene> Do you still have the DEC LA120 printer? If so, do you have any idea what shipping would cost? From squirechris at softhome.net Wed Apr 21 15:51:27 2004 From: squirechris at softhome.net (Chris Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: LAPC-1 Cards Message-ID: <297501c427e2$6f911dd0$44dc19ac@830REDPANTS> Hey I just found this post; what are the odds your friend still has a LAPC-1 card? Thanks. - - - - MPU-401/LAPC-1 Hans Franke cctech@classiccmp.org Thu Jan 9 12:52:45 2003 Previous message: MPU-401 Next message: H89, REMark, Sextant Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] I just taked to my friend. The cards are LAPC-1s. He still has two new units, and he'd be willing to part for 40 Euro each (~42 USD), plus shipping. So if someone still wants to build a early 90s game PC, just drop me a note. Gruss H. From kth at srv.net Wed Apr 21 15:22:34 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Altair Goes for over $8000 In-Reply-To: <200404211708.KAA10983@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200404211708.KAA10983@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <4086D80A.6010505@srv.net> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >Hi > I wonder if the buyer thought that the words, "powers >up" means that it is fully functional? All it means >is that some LED's came on and there was no smoke. >Dwight > > I don't see how "powers up" means that there is "no smoke". I've had people ask me if that was normal behavior. ("The screen went blank, and smoke came out the top. Is that normal?") From torquil at chemist.com Wed Apr 21 15:33:42 2004 From: torquil at chemist.com (Torquil MacCorkle, III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: Ethics References: <009601c427ba$f5745a20$0500a8c0@floyd> <10404211933.ZM10187@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <00fd01c427df$f476e780$0500a8c0@floyd> > True, and there's another factor: SGI's licence for the software on > those CDs prohibits them being passed on to another person except when > transferred with a machine licensed to use them. SGI have occasionally > been known to get shirty about that. I thought that since all SGI's originally came with IRIX, all of them had the rights to use IRIX so transfer of media was okay? Seems I have been mistaken, I guess I will keep the CDs afterall. Thanks for clearing that up for me. --- Thanks, Torquil MacCorkle, III Lexington, Virginia From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Apr 21 15:43:50 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Available: DEC LA120 printer In-Reply-To: <000601c427a7$b9fc5500$0b0c460a@marlene> References: <000601c427a7$b9fc5500$0b0c460a@marlene> Message-ID: <20040421204350.GK19595@rhiannon.rddavis.org> A warning about using DEC LA-120 (and similar) printers: placing them on top of other classic computer equipment, with rare and difficult to replace hard drives, particularly those that are mounted vertically, can possibly do some damage as a result of the vibration. :-( Don't ask me how I know. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Apr 21 15:55:07 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Canon BJIF-3020 serial board users manual? Message-ID: <200404212055.NAA11219@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I assume you already have a serial light/breakout box. One can't even begin to deal with serial without one. I know that Heathkit would do nasty things like invert the status of handshake lines, for their printers. Dwight >From: Hal > >Hello Folks, > >It's not that old, but i am searching for a Canon BJIF-3020 serial board >manual. It's a serial board for in a Canon BJ-300/330 printer. > >Can't get it to work on my Alpha box, so i guess the serial settings of the >printer are incorrect. But i cant find a manual anywhere (have the original >BJ-330 user and programmer manual, but that doesn't provide any solution) > >Thanks! > > > From acme at gbronline.com Wed Apr 21 16:05:11 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: ADT (was Re: Apple IIC+ Pointers on getting programs to and from machine.) References: <20040418183732.53916B5023@outbox.allstream.net> <019401c42582$bdaca140$c54f0945@thegoodw> Message-ID: <04cb01c427e4$57a25660$f54f0945@thegoodw> Hi Ron -- Sorry for the delayed reply. ADT *does* work in both directions. Here's a snip from the docs: *** Apple Disk Transfer (ADT for short) is a set of two programs to transfer standard 16-sector Apple II disks to and from 140k files on a Windows computer. The file format is compatible with many Apple II emulators. ADT 1.22 Win32 Edition requires the Apple II to have either a Super Serial Card (or compatible) or an Apple Communications Card (or compatible). Note that the IIc+ and //c include SSC-compatible serial ports, but the built-in IIgs serial ports are _not_ hardware- compatible with SSC. *** The whole package is in a 142KB zip file -- let me know if you'd like to to send it your way. Glen 0/0 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Hudson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" ; "Glen Goodwin" Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 7:33 PM Subject: Re: Apple IIC+ Pointers on getting programs to and from machine. > > On Apr 18, 2004, at 1:21 PM, Glen Goodwin wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dave Dunfield" > > > >> I think there's a freeware program called ADT (Apple Disk Transfer?) > >> which > > does > >> the job with the standard Apple serial card. When I was looking, there > > were two > >> versions for two different cards. > > > > I've used ADT to perform transfers from a Windows-based PC to an Apple > > IIe > > and it works very well with either a standard or Super serial card. > > Complete docs are included. > > > > If the OP can't find it on the 'Net I'll zip it up and send it along. > > I've found a pdf with some instructions already. does it work both > directions? > Will it put a .dsk file back onto a blank floppy? > > > > > Glen > > 0/0 > > > > From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Wed Apr 21 15:53:55 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: 3M Tape Drive on eBay References: <20040420030109.861.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Message-ID: <4086DF63.54D59869@msm.umr.edu> Ken Seefried wrote: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=4125760894& > rd=1 The drive has one big problem. One is that there are no components in the bays visible at the bottom of the cabinet in the first shot. It will be a display piece, not a useful drive. The reels are probably 14" and hold 3600' of tape or more. Depends on whether the drive was ever adjusted to handle thin stock. At least there is a sample of tape on the drive so you can see what to do with it. The drive may function and move tape by itself, but without the record and reproduce amps, it will not be too much interest, unless you want to try to build your own. Jim From acme at gbronline.com Wed Apr 21 16:14:50 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: TS2068 disk interface (was Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 8, Issue 33) References: <20040419012646.66088.qmail@web13425.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <04e601c427e5$afe17940$f54f0945@thegoodw> Hello Al -- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Hartman" > What controller are you using on the TS2068? > Just curious... > - Al I use the John Oliger (JLO) interface. It supports two DSDD 5.25" and/or 3.5" drives in any combination and has proven to be very reliable. It also does *not* use the TS2068 cartridge port, so that port is still available for other circuitry. Additionally, the John Oliger Co. is still in business and still sells and supports this interface which was originally introduced in 1984. Glen 0/0 From acme at gbronline.com Wed Apr 21 16:20:32 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Anyone have a spare RX23? References: <2684d92674e8.2674e82684d9@ono.com><017d01c42577$1ba5c080$c54f0945@thegoodw> <20040419024401.GF23365@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <04f701c427e6$7bbd9580$f54f0945@thegoodw> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 10:44 PM Subject: Re: Anyone have a spare RX23? > On Sun, Apr 18, 2004 at 12:58:40PM -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > I'm curious. Why on earth do you need a floppy drive on a VAX? I've > > never used a floppy drive on a VMS system. I either use tape, > > network, CD, or hard drive to transfer data between systems. > > We had an RUX50 on our 11/750 at Software Results (I still have it) because > we needed to send our product to our customers with MicroVAX-IIs who didn't > have TK50. I'll admit that today, ethernet interfaces are plentiful, as > are tape drives, but some of my own machines are limited to floppy or > serial port (i.e., Kermit). > > The VAXstation 3100, though, should have a network interface. > > Perhaps it's like when I got my first SPARCstation, ten years ago... it > didn't come with a floppy drive, so I bought one - with shipping I think > it cost about 10% of what I paid for the workstation. I think I used it > twice. :-( Now, of course, they cost a lot more to ship than they cost > to aquire. I have several in a box. At the time, however, my *other* > machines didn't all have network interfaces. I've since corrected _that_. The VAXstation *does* have a network interface, but I haven't gotten around to using it yet. What I want to do is save some configuration files and other small bits of information. Most of my classic computers are micros and don't have networking capability (yet) so I just need a simple way to stash a few files. I'm using the VAX station to learn VMS and want to be prepared in case I hose things while learning. Glen 0/0 From CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL Wed Apr 21 17:03:27 2004 From: CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16E49@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Every once in a while you win, though... I was at a 2-day hamfest last year and ran across a gentleman selling vacuum tubes, old test gear, etc. for what I considered outrageous prices. Under the table, he had a complete PDP-11/05 sitting with some other stuff. I kinda figured it would be also be overpriced, but when I asked him, his reply (as well as I can remember it) went like this... "Oh that? Thats part of an antique computer... If I had the whole thing, I'd want around $1,200 for it. it's RARE ;-) At this point, I was kind of curious, so I asked if I could look inside. It appeared to be a complete 11/05 with core memory, so I asked what he thought was missing. "It's just the _control head_", he said, "The REAL computer computer itself was MUCH larger that that!" At this point he proceeded to inform me that all computers of this vintage had to take up at least a full equipment rack. (all his companions sitting on the tailgate of his truck nodded and mumbled things like "Trust him, he's an EXPERT"). "Well, how much for just the _control head_?" I asked. "I'll take $35.00, but understand that all sales are final! And that's how I got a fully functional 11/05 for $35.00! 8-) Yep, sometimes the hunt, and the satisfaction of getting a good deal from a greedy self-appointed clueless expert can be worth as much as the find itself! -al- -----Original Message----- From: Joe R. [mailto:rigdonj@cfl.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 10:46 AM To: dancohoe@oxford.net; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) At 08:31 AM 4/21/04 -0400, you wrote: >Yesterday I ran across three PDP11/84's in parts at a scrappers (one day too >late). I sorted through the pile of boards and made up a collection >including a lot of heavy backplane sections. The chief arrived back from >lunch and immediately found me to announce that his was prime material and >I'd have to pay at least $5.00 lb. > >I re-organized my collection throwing back what turned out to be PMI memory >boards :-( and a lot of unidentifiable third party items (made by Megadata, >Bohemia NY) to reduce the hit but held onto the somewhat strange 11/84 >backplane with the combination Qbus / Unibus sections. > >When I got to the scales, he saw the backplanes and said they were full of >palladium and for a little he'd take $5 lb, but for a larger quantity, >they'd be more money per lb. I abandoned all of the backplanes at that >point. > >He then pointed out two 11/44's that I'd missed in my search. "What's your >offer", he said, "I was going to list them on Ebay and I expect $400 each". > >I suggested that probably wouldn't happen and offered that I'd bid if he did >put them up for auction rather than make an offer here that was far from his >dream. His response was that he'd scrap them for not much less than that. >I'm not sure what will happen because there's clearly some serious >bargaining going on, however, he's quite adamant about the scrap value and >prepared to throw stuff in the scrap that I won't pay this price for. His >claim is that he actually sends stuff out for custom refining and gets the >recovery value of what he sends. I found that most scrappers are real BS artists! I recently found a big stack of Nova core memory boards. The scrapper swore that they were full of gold and wanted $6/lb for them. The only gold on them was a trace in the card edge connectors. Needless to say I passed on them. They're still sitting there two years later (but they've been in the weather so they're probably ruined by now). Joe > >These valuations really scare me because it'll put the value beyond what I'm >interested in except for a few exceptional pieces. > >Dan > > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 21 17:02:00 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <200404210807.JAA21317@citadel.metropolis.local> from "Stan Barr" at Apr 21, 4 09:07:12 am Message-ID: > Apart from the risk of theft, I worry about damaging or marking it in some way. I must admit that I have never worried about cosmetic damage (scratches, etc) to anything I own. Yes, I care -- a lot -- about scratches on optical elements, on disk heads, on things like that. Yes, I care about damage to the body castings so the lens no longer sits true, or to disk drive chassis castings so the heads no longer stay in alignment, etc. Of course I do. But to me, equipment (computer, photographic, tools, etc) is made to be used, and it will show some signs of use. I'm an HP calculator enthusiast, but I am not a 'stamp collector' (to use the UK club term). I don't care if my machines look a bit beat up, with worn markings, holes through the label so I can get to the case screws, and so on. But they have to work. I want to calculate with them, hack them, etc. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 21 17:04:45 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Other collecting activities? In-Reply-To: <200404210901.KAA21921@citadel.metropolis.local> from "Stan Barr" at Apr 21, 4 10:01:04 am Message-ID: > There are digital backs for plate cameras, but I don't even want to think > about what they cost :-) I know somebody who's used one. His comment was that it replaces the Polaroid back for checking composition, checking you've got the movements set right, and so on. But no way is it good enough for the final image. And that's on a 5*4 camera. The back cost somewhere in the high 5 figures of pounds I believe. At that price I can buy a lot of Polaroid sheet film (even though it's darn expensive itself). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 21 17:19:56 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Looking for Atari SC1224 monitor schematic In-Reply-To: <20040421111513.B01E15DE3@outbox.allstream.net> from "Dave Dunfield" at Apr 21, 4 07:15:13 am Message-ID: > Hi Tony, > > I've located a set of rather poor schematics (can't really read most of the > component values), but it did include 10 pages of troubleshooting information. Right. > > According to this, the filaments do run off a winding on the flyback. This does not suprise me. Most colour monitors seem to do this. Watch out, because the heater supply is anything but sinusoidal, and most multimeters -- even those that claim to read true-RMS, get really confused by it. The RMS value is, of course, what matters here. > > The power supply has three outputs, a main one which is supposed to be 115v, > and two smaller (thin wires/connectors) which are supposed to be 12v and 14v. > > Under no load, I'm measuring 140v, 15v and 17v, shich is probably about > right. With the monitor connected, I'm reading about 55v on the main supply, OK... > I have not measured the other two as I'd have to remove the PSU board and > tack on wires, however since it's a single-switcher design, I'd guess that > they were proportinally lower as well. Yes. Now, what if one of those lower voltage lines is heavily loaded. Does either of them feed a 3-terminal regulator (78xx or similar)? If so, a short on the output of that will pull the input down. Since the main output is not at 0, this doesn't sound like a shorted line output transistor. Let's hope, anyway :-). I would think a short circuit on any of the rails produced by the line output stage would kill the line output transistor, but maybe not. I would check those other 2 outputs when the PSU is connected to the monitor. Then find _all_ the derrived rails (from the flyback, from the lower voltage PSU outputs) and check them for shorts to earth. Your problem could be as simple as a shorted electrolytic capacitor. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 21 17:23:23 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040421103436.00893320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe R." at Apr 21, 4 10:34:36 am Message-ID: > them to shreds and it became a sort of hispeed blender after that! If you > know anything about Hewlett Packards's external HP-IB drives, you know that Which ones? I've taken 9133Hs apart, and they seem very modular. Removing the hard drive and putting it back takes a few minutes (IIRC this can be done without removing antthing else other than the top cover). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 21 17:28:02 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: DEC VR241-A color monitor in Germany available ! In-Reply-To: <16518.37304.835000.264937@gargle.gargle.HOWL> from "Paul Koning" at Apr 21, 4 11:22:32 am Message-ID: > It should also work with a PRO. For that matter, it's a standard TV > signal; you might be able to test it by feeding a TV signal into it > from a VCR or the like. (Only possible issue is whether it expects US > timing rather than European video timing...) For a rough test, set the switches on the back to 'Internal sync' and 'Terminated' (they'll be set like this if it was used on a 'Bow) and then feed a composite mono signal into the green BNC socket. 'Internal Sync' is sync-on-green, of coruse. If yoy get a green image on the screen, then the monitor is basically working. You could still have a problem with the red or blue video amplifiers, but theyr'e not hard to fix (unlike the horrible PSU/horizontal deflection system -- I still shudder when I remember that schematic!). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 21 17:44:23 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Camera's are off topic! In-Reply-To: <001901c427cd$e8b87c40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at Apr 21, 4 01:24:39 pm Message-ID: > > TSIA, thanks! I thought the whole point of CCtalk was to allow the odd off-topic thread (CCtech being the list with only on-topic stuff). Anyway, in that case I'll not post about my digitial camera when I get round to restoring it. Even though it's about 20 years old, monochrome, has a linear CCD that's tracked mechanically across the image, and came with a PERQ interface card. It's clearly got nothing to do with classic computers... -tony From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 21 17:54:08 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) In-Reply-To: <20040421175229.GI19595@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <3.0.6.32.20040421104555.00912e10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1d5.1f38e096.2db760c4@aol.com> <3.0.6.32.20040421104555.00912e10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040421185408.00914b10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:52 PM 4/21/04 -0400, RD Davis wrote: >Quothe Joe R., from writings of Wed, Apr 21, 2004 at 10:45:55AM -0400: >> I found that most scrappers are real BS artists! I recently found a big > >About twenty years ago, there used to be a small-time scrapper not far >from here, but not close enough to go to often. This scrapper ran >what was mostly a combination of a flea-market/junk shop where one >would find anything from old records, decorations, antiques, household >items, hardware (not computers, but things like old pulleys, etc.), >etc... you name it, there was a chance of it being there. He also had >some old electronic and computer equipment, and one would sometimes >see him disaembling electronic equipment, minicomputers, etc. He made >it clear that he didn't want anyone going near his "treasures" that he >was scrapping for gold; he'd become very agitated and somewhat >unpleasant if one even looked at some of the equipment. That sounds typical of the scrappers in this area. They'll sell you their worthless trash as gold scrap but their real gold scrap is carefully hidden and guarded. Joe From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Apr 21 18:03:24 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: Ethics In-Reply-To: "Torquil MacCorkle, III" "Re: Slightly OT: Ethics" (Apr 21, 16:33) References: <009601c427ba$f5745a20$0500a8c0@floyd> <10404211933.ZM10187@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <00fd01c427df$f476e780$0500a8c0@floyd> Message-ID: <10404220003.ZM10586@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 21, 16:33, Torquil MacCorkle, III wrote: > > True, and there's another factor: SGI's licence for the software on > > those CDs prohibits them being passed on to another person except when > > transferred with a machine licensed to use them. SGI have occasionally > > been known to get shirty about that. > > I thought that since all SGI's originally came with IRIX, all of them had > the rights to use IRIX so transfer of media was okay? Seems I have been > mistaken, I guess I will keep the CDs afterall. Not necessarily. Each machine has the right to use the latest version that was supplied for that individual machine (ie, that serial number). As far as I understand it, if you had, say, an Indy that originally came with IRIX 5.3, and had a support contract that entitled you to upgrades through IRIX 6.2 to IRIX 6.5, you could pass on the 6.5 CDs you got, along with the Indy. But if you didn't have a support contract, and SGI didn't supply you with 6.5 specifically for that Indy, then that Indy would only be entitled to run 5.3. Ditto for an O2 that originally came with 6.3 and never had a maintenance contract that entitled it to an upgrade to 6.5. You could buy the upgrade separately, and that would include a right-to-use, but the cheapest way to buy 6.5 from SGI is to buy a support contract :-) At least SGI's licences transfer with the machine, unlike DEC's. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 21 18:24:23 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: New find; HP HyperViper Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040421192423.00898b80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Today I finally had a chance to check out a PC that I found a few weeks ago. I had picked it up becuase it had an HP-IB connector on one of the expansion cards. When I looked closer I saw that the card had a sticker marked "HP 82324". Bingo! That's the part number of the souped-up Measurement Coprocessor card that's commonly called a HyperViper! I have a number of Viper cards with 68000 CPUs but I'd never even seen a HyperViper card. The HyperViper uses a 16MHz 68030 CPU. The Vipers and HyperVipers are HP 9000 series 200 or series 300 computers on a board. You install them in a PC and run a driver and it switches over to the 680xx CPU and runs (almost!) exactly like HP 9000 computer. It has a built-in HP-IB port and supports additional HP-IB cards. It also mounts a HP 9000 file system in one file on the PCs hard drive. It uses the PC's parallel and serial ports and uses the PC's keybaord and monitor for user I/O. Anyway today I opened it up and cleaned all the dirt and insects out and fired it up. It booted to DOS then loaded the HP software then switched over to the HyperViper card and booted HP BASIC version 6.2 (Rocky Mountain BASIC) without a hitch. Wahoo! I'm in business now! It even has the last version (D.00.00) of the HP divers. HP's Viper and HyperViper site >> Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 21 18:27:07 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20040421103436.00893320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040421192707.00825900@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:23 PM 4/21/04 +0100, you wrote: >> them to shreds and it became a sort of hispeed blender after that! If you >> know anything about Hewlett Packards's external HP-IB drives, you know that > >Which ones? I've taken 9133Hs apart, and they seem very modular. Removing >the hard drive and putting it back takes a few minutes (IIRC this can be >done without removing antthing else other than the top cover). I don't remreber the model number but you had to remove the cover then remove the logic baord then remove the drive. IIRC it was a 79 something something drive. Joe From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed Apr 21 18:35:35 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) In-Reply-To: <000f01c4279c$997ffda0$6501a8c0@DCOHOE> Message-ID: Worked Across the street from MegaData for 15 years! Knew most of the engineers and products.... From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 21 18:32:51 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Camera's are off topic! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > I thought the whole point of CCtalk was to allow the odd off-topic thread > (CCtech being the list with only on-topic stuff). > > Anyway, in that case I'll not post about my digitial camera when I get > round to restoring it. Even though it's about 20 years old, monochrome, > has a linear CCD that's tracked mechanically across the image, and came > with a PERQ interface card. It's clearly got nothing to do with classic > computers... It does, but I think Jay's point is that a discussion wholly on photography does not. You're right that CCTALK is supposed to be open for any topic, but you don't have to be snippy about it. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Apr 21 18:27:03 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: On-Topic digital camera (was Re: Camera's are off topic!) In-Reply-To: References: <001901c427cd$e8b87c40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20040421232703.GA2986@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Apr 21, 2004 at 11:44:23PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > Anyway, in that case I'll not post about my digitial camera when I get > round to restoring it. Even though it's about 20 years old, monochrome, > has a linear CCD that's tracked mechanically across the image, and came > with a PERQ interface card. It's clearly got nothing to do with classic > computers... Until I bought my nice digital SLR last year, my digital camera was an on-topic model - an Apple QuickTake 150... AFAIK, it came out in 1994. It's typical Apple - virtually no control over image quality - the only setting you can affect is bad compression vs worse compression (i.e., always 640x480, but either 16 pictures or 32 pictures in its fixed 1MB of FlashROM). Many of the pictures on my webpage were taken with one I borrowed from the lab in 1995/1996. I think I took between 500 and 1000 pix in one year with one (enough to almost fill a CD-R, saved in both its native "QuickTime compressed PICT", and a more ordinary JPG). My one real beef with it (besides lots of compression artifacts and its fixed-focus lens) is that the only way I was able to read the pictures was to find a copy of the Apple install disks via a Mac friend - Apple apparently included some 3rd-party software on the disks that prevents them from making the disks available for free download from Apple's support website. You can't even view the pictures in their native format unless you've loaded the camera software; they are PICTs, but the data segment of the PICT file is compressed in a non-standard way, meaning that even Linux tools that know what a PICT is can only describe the contents of the picture file from a structural standpoint. Makes automating certain operations impossible. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 21-Apr-2004 23:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -80.2 F (-62.4 C) Windchill -98.59 F (-72.59 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 5.4 kts Grid 074 Barometer 687.1 mb (10361. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Apr 21 18:43:35 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Camera's are off topic! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage > Computer Festival > Sent: 22 April 2004 00:33 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Camera's are off topic! > > It does, but I think Jay's point is that a discussion wholly > on photography does not. You're right that CCTALK is > supposed to be open for any topic, but you don't have to be > snippy about it. > Or snappy even :o) (caution: contains joke) w From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Apr 21 18:58:04 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Got that INS8073 SBC to respond! Message-ID: <20040421235804.GA6800@bos7.spole.gov> Thanks to all who sent me copies of that MM58174A app note. I'm not quite to the stage of using the contents, but it's nice to have. I do have scans of the board that I intend to put up on my website, in the meantime, I have been tracing the board and have puzzled out the 10 pin connector - it's power, gnd, battery-backup for the 6114 and MM58174A, serial in/out, and three of the I/O bits (SB, F2, F3) on the CPU. I have raided the local electronics scrap bin (we have to sort our waste into numerous categories from "burnables" to "food waste" to "light metal", etc., including "electronic scrap") for the connector off of a dead CD-R drive, mounted the power connector and the audio/master-slave connector to a piece of perfboard, and constructed a daughter card that gives me easy-to-plug-into access to the signals that the board needs, and, ta-da, I just got a '>' prompt from its Tiny Basic. At the moment, I haven't puzzled enough out to enter programs (I get an "ERROR 1" - Out of Memory), but I can write statements in immediate mode and see the results (FOR loops, PRINTs, etc.). If I pull its 6116, I don't get a prompt, so I don't think it's a problem with the SRAM, but "PRINT TOP" gives me -32768 rather than an expected 4353 or similar number. So one thing I'm going to do with this is to change its baud rate from 110 bps to the max of 4800... After that, who knows. I could use an enclosure for it. For something out of my junk drawer, it's pretty cool. I'm going to write to the guy who gave it to me to see if he knows what it was used for. I used to have access to an RB5X when I worked at COSI. Now, at least, I can play around in its environment. Somewhere at home, I have a backup of our robot disk. I'll have to see if I've brought an image of that in my C-64 directory. Let me recommend the INS8073 for anyone who wants that late-70s/early-80s BASIC experience in a bread-board computer. I think you could put one together on a single (large) breadboard slab. You'd need 40 pins for the CPU, another 24 to 32 pins for the SRAM, and some sort of RS-232 level shifter, like a MAX-232. The rest is all caps and resistors. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 21-Apr-2004 23:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -81.4 F (-63.0 C) Windchill -113.3 F (-80.7 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 7.2 kts Grid 059 Barometer 687.1 mb (10361. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Apr 21 20:02:51 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: On-Topic digital camera (was Re: Camera's are off topic!) In-Reply-To: <20040421232703.GA2986@bos7.spole.gov> from "Ethan Dicks" at Apr 21, 2004 11:27:03 PM Message-ID: <200404220102.i3M12qvc031419@onyx.spiritone.com> > download from Apple's support website. You can't even view the > pictures in their native format unless you've loaded the camera software; > they are PICTs, but the data segment of the PICT file is compressed > in a non-standard way, meaning that even Linux tools that know what > a PICT is can only describe the contents of the picture file from a > structural standpoint. Makes automating certain operations impossible. > > -ethan You've just "got" to love some of those old Apple file formats :^( One of my chief reasons for buying my first Mac in 1995 was to run ClarisDraw. Guess when the last version of ClarisDraw was released. Granted I'm still able to run my copy on my G5 2x2 running Mac OS X 10.3.3, but it's the *only* thing that can read all my files :^( On an interesting/scarry note, I can now print to PDF, and then use the PDF file in Adobe Indesign (my DTP software). So I'm actually better off than I used to be! I'd really like to upgrade to a newer program with a more open file format, but I've yet to find anything that does what I need as well. Zane From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Apr 21 20:18:30 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Dead Mac IIfx In-Reply-To: from chris at "Apr 21, 4 11:49:18 am" Message-ID: <200404220118.SAA09418@floodgap.com> > On some Macs, there is a 'CUDA' switch (no idea what CUDA stands for... > anyone know?). Its a little tiny push buttin switch on the logic board. Actually, I don't think Cuda stands for anything -- I've only ever seen it written "Cuda" in Apple tech documentations (and all their other acronyms are usually capped, so I assume this isn't an acronym). -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- If you don't have a nasty obituary you probably didn't matter. -- F. Dyson - From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Apr 21 20:23:57 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: On-Topic digital camera (was Re: Camera's are off topic!) In-Reply-To: <200404220102.i3M12qvc031419@onyx.spiritone.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at "Apr 21, 4 06:02:51 pm" Message-ID: <200404220123.SAA12844@floodgap.com> > You've just "got" to love some of those old Apple file formats :^( One of > my chief reasons for buying my first Mac in 1995 was to run ClarisDraw. > Guess when the last version of ClarisDraw was released. Granted I'm still > able to run my copy on my G5 2x2 running Mac OS X 10.3.3, but it's the > *only* thing that can read all my files :^( This is something that greatly amuses me about OS X Classic: it seems the older the application, the more compatible with Classic it is. System 6 apps run happily on my 10.2.8 dual G4, and yet a 8.6+ game of Shogo which needs Apple OpenGL freezes at the title screen and requires me to force-quit Classic. I've been playing ZeroGravity, this System 6 game I played to death on my best friend's dad's Mac Plus, on this dual G4, and other than the fact the sound doesn't work (not too surprising), the game plays 100%. In fact, even though I played it on an 8MHz 68000, on twin 1.25GHz G4s, the game is still at a playable speed (a nice bonus, but seemingly paradoxical). I also use an old copy of Caere OmniPage with my dual G4, which is 6.0.8 era, simply because it's faster OCR than any other package I possess or have access to (I'm willing to put up with its finickiness about how it wants the TIFF files because it works so well). -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. -- Gen. O. N. Bradley From ken at seefried.com Wed Apr 21 20:48:28 2004 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: AN/GSO-221 In-Reply-To: <200404211700.i3LH03JB077181@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200404211700.i3LH03JB077181@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040422014828.13745.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Oddly compelling auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=4125610204& rd=1 Anyone know exactly what he's got? Ken From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Apr 21 21:16:44 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: IBM 360 corestack on eBay Message-ID: Supposed to be from a 360: seller has several of these of varying sizes and prices - this particular one starts bidding at $300, or y'all can buy-it-now for the special price of - - - $350. wowsers. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=4124997669&rd=1 Cheerz John From mark at rotton.com Wed Apr 21 21:17:24 2004 From: mark at rotton.com (Mark Rotton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Ton of *free* DEC stuff In-Reply-To: <4EFFFCC0-927B-11D8-8450-000A95DBAA94@ndx.net> Message-ID: <035401c4280f$f690c600$2a2aa8c0@hpn6490> Kirk, I'd be interested in the Atari stuff and maybe the apple stuff. I'm relatively local to you (Redwood Shores). Mail me offlist at mark@rotton.com if they're still available --Mark Rotton -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Kirk Davis Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 11:32 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Ton of *free* DEC stuff I'm moving and will only have room for one small system so I need to give away some things. I have a bunch of stuff that I got from a company that used to make Q-Bus cards. Here some of the stuff I is going: Boards Q-Bus and some U-Bus Manuals VAX, PDP. Some print sets Cables (Cabkits, Serial, drive, network, etc) Media (Mag & Mini tape, disks) Software (lots of dec stuff including several Distros) TK & SCSI Drives Various cabinet parts, rails, hardware, etc Hard drives (5.25 ESDI & ST506) Some Apple & Atari stuff Nothing larger than a BA23, most of the stuff is in boxes. Looking at about 15-20 boxes. *** This is local pickup only *** Preference give to someone that will take it all at once :-) Kirk From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Apr 21 21:18:35 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: On-Topic digital camera (was Re: Camera's are off topic!) In-Reply-To: <200404220123.SAA12844@floodgap.com> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Apr 21, 2004 06:23:57 PM Message-ID: <200404220218.i3M2IawP000744@onyx.spiritone.com> > This is something that greatly amuses me about OS X Classic: it seems the > older the application, the more compatible with Classic it is. System 6 > apps run happily on my 10.2.8 dual G4, and yet a 8.6+ game of Shogo which > needs Apple OpenGL freezes at the title screen and requires me to force-quit > Classic. The only other classic app I regularly use is Adobe PageMill 3.0. Thankfully it is able to handle the FTP portion without any difficulty. Again I'm looking for replacement, but what's out there seems *way* overpowered. Once I break down and buy the Adobe Create Suite Pro upgrade from Photoshop, I'll most likely largely switch to useing Adobe GoLive instead of PageMill, and Adobe Illustrator instead of ClarisDraw, but I suspect I'll still use ClarisDraw for some things. As for games I know I've run the original "Master of Orion" on 10.2 on my G4/450, I'm not sure if I've tried it on 10.3 on my G5. One of these days I should check to see how "Warlords II" works. Hopefully it works better than the last time I tried it! The Mac versions of both games are *FAR* better than the PC versions as they allow you to view a *lot* more territory at once on the screen, not limiting you to 640x480 like you are on a PC. They're also what I consider to be two of the greatest computer games ever. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Apr 21 21:56:25 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: AN/GSO-221 In-Reply-To: <20040422014828.13745.qmail@mail.seefried.com> from "Ken Seefried" at Apr 21, 2004 09:48:28 PM Message-ID: <200404220256.i3M2uPE8001741@onyx.spiritone.com> > Oddly compelling auction: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=4125610204& > rd=1 > > Anyone know exactly what he's got? > > Ken That description is pretty much worthless. The military has put a lot of 32-bit Hardware in 19" racks over the years. Unless someone knows what a AN/GSO-221 is, or for that matter what the "GSO" stands for.... It could simply be something like a HP 9000/750. Zane From sastevens at earthlink.net Wed Apr 21 22:09:04 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: AN/GSO-221 In-Reply-To: <200404220256.i3M2uPE8001741@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <20040422014828.13745.qmail@mail.seefried.com> <200404220256.i3M2uPE8001741@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <20040421220904.755c1072.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:56:25 -0700 (PDT) "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > Oddly compelling auction: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=4125610204& > > rd=1 > > > > Anyone know exactly what he's got? > > > > Ken > > That description is pretty much worthless. The military has put a lot of > 32-bit Hardware in 19" racks over the years. Unless someone knows what a > AN/GSO-221 is, or for that matter what the "GSO" stands for.... > > It could simply be something like a HP 9000/750. > > Zane > Well, he posted a phone number in the listing. Who volunteers to call him? From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Apr 21 22:22:23 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Camera's are off topic! References: Message-ID: <005601c42819$09438590$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > I thought the whole point of CCtalk was to allow the odd off-topic thread > (CCtech being the list with only on-topic stuff). True and correct Tony, you're right. But there were more posts on camera's/photography than classic computers it seemed as of late so I was just trying to "herd the squirrels" *GRIN* Didn't mean to come across as stomping on it. I have poor vision in this area I guess, as I'd rather subscribe to cctech but I have to see most of what is going on overall so cctalk it is. Jay From cb at mythtech.net Wed Apr 21 22:25:22 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Dead Mac IIfx Message-ID: >> On some Macs, there is a 'CUDA' switch (no idea what CUDA stands for... >> anyone know?). Its a little tiny push buttin switch on the logic board. > >Actually, I don't think Cuda stands for anything -- I've only ever seen it >written "Cuda" in Apple tech documentations (and all their other acronyms >are usually capped, so I assume this isn't an acronym). Humm... could very well be. I'll have to keep a better eye out for how its written in Apple tech notes (I know I've never seen a definition for it, but I can't say I've paid too much attention to it being CUDA, Cuda or cuda) -chris From cb at mythtech.net Wed Apr 21 22:44:07 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: On-Topic digital camera (was Re: Camera's are off topic!) Message-ID: > You can't even view the >pictures in their native format unless you've loaded the camera software; >they are PICTs, but the data segment of the PICT file is compressed >in a non-standard way, meaning that even Linux tools that know what >a PICT is can only describe the contents of the picture file from a >structural standpoint. Makes automating certain operations impossible. I'll try to remember to play with my QT100 tomorrow, but I *think* GraphicConverter can deal with the native format. I'm not sure if you need the QT software installed (possibly, and then GC just uses the hooks enabled via the QT extensions), but even if that is so, GC has some half way decent automation abilities, so you may be able to use it to automate your jobs. If it can read them, you may be able to ask the author (Lemke Software) how he did it and that may help with a Linux tool (unless he requires the QT extensions, then you are just SOL for Linux) -chris From cb at mythtech.net Wed Apr 21 22:44:08 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: On-Topic digital camera (was Re: Camera's are off topic!) Message-ID: >I've been playing ZeroGravity, this System 6 game I played to death on my >best friend's dad's Mac Plus, on this dual G4, and other than the fact the >sound doesn't work (not too surprising), the game plays 100%. In fact, >even though I played it on an 8MHz 68000, on twin 1.25GHz G4s, the game >is still at a playable speed (a nice bonus, but seemingly paradoxical). I tried Iggy Iggopolis the other day, ran WAY to fast to be usable. You can't even control Iggy, he just gets stuck in the corner... and the games timer runs out in about 10 seconds. I'd planned to try vMac to emulate a Mac Plus and see if it was better. I don't know if vMac tries to duplicate the speed of a 68k mac, or if it will try to run as fast as it can. I'd guess since ZeroGravity plays at the same speed, that's proof of decent programming. The author didn't depend on the slowness of the processor to regulate the game speed. Capt Magneto is also still mostly playable (no MacInTalk speech, but other sounds are all fine). The only problem with it is trying to fight enemies... the attack power counter goes so fast you can't even hope to use skill to get a high value, its just click and hope for a good number. -chris From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Apr 22 00:18:45 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: On-Topic digital camera (was Re: Camera's are off topic!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040422051845.GA7654@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Apr 21, 2004 at 11:44:07PM -0400, chris wrote: > > You can't even view the > >pictures in their native format unless you've loaded the camera software; > > I'll try to remember to play with my QT100 tomorrow, but I *think* > GraphicConverter can deal with the native format. I'm not sure if you > need the QT software installed (possibly, and then GC just uses the hooks > enabled via the QT extensions), but even if that is so, GC has some half > way decent automation abilities, so you may be able to use it to automate > your jobs. My experience with the QT150 is that GC works if you load the QT extensions. > If it can read them, you may be able to ask the author (Lemke Software) > how he did it and that may help with a Linux tool (unless he requires the > QT extensions, then you are just SOL for Linux) I was SOL with Linux - I had to fire up a 68K Mac (there is no installer for PPC) _just_ to dump the camera and convert the QT-encoded PICTs to JPGs. I did use GC, but it wasn't my first choice - I'd rather use a Perl script. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 22-Apr-2004 05:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -82.4 F (-63.6 C) Windchill -119.8 F (-84.40 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8.1 kts Grid 083 Barometer 686.7 mb (10373 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Apr 22 00:28:57 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: IBM 360 corestack on eBay References: Message-ID: <001201c4282a$b5a89bc0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> guess that makes an ERMA stack worth 10K eh? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lawson" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 7:16 PM Subject: IBM 360 corestack on eBay > > > Supposed to be from a 360: seller has several of these of varying sizes > and prices - this particular one starts bidding at $300, or y'all can > buy-it-now for the special price of - - - $350. > > wowsers. > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=4124997669&rd=1 > > > Cheerz > > John > > > > From pat at computer-refuge.org Thu Apr 22 00:34:12 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: Selectric Terminal Message-ID: <200404220034.12800.pat@computer-refuge.org> So, I decided "what the hell" and got one of these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3810203578 The auction calls it a Selectric model 731, and it's got a 55 pin round "Mil Spec"-style connector on it. Does anyone know anything about these? The only reference I've found via Google is to using this model of Selectric on a PDP-6. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From yakowenk at yahoo.com Thu Apr 22 00:41:22 2004 From: yakowenk at yahoo.com (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:02 2005 Subject: TI Bubble Memory? Message-ID: <20040422054122.1382.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> Just some useless info, FWIW. All this recent talk of bubble memories got me to remembering.... A company I worked for in Buffalo NY around 1982 was putting bubble memories into a small diskless machine that they sold (or rented?) to golf-course pro shops. It was called a "handicaputer" - it kept track of golfer's scores and handicaps and such. No idea how many were made, but my impression is not very many. But it might be something to watch for, for anyone into bubbles. We also had, IIRC, an SS-30 card (SWTPC I/O bus) with a bubble memory on it, for which I hacked Flex "disk" drivers. (Somebody else had already written the lower-level bubble read/write code.) At one point it booted into Flex. Might have been called "disk-bub" or "flex-bub" or something similar. Sold only a handful though. Really cool but probably too expensive unless you really needed bubbles for some reason. One went to some research station in Alaska (or Antarctica?) - they said disk drives would have frozen up. Bill. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Apr 22 01:49:44 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040421185408.00914b10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040421104555.00912e10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1d5.1f38e096.2db760c4@aol.com> <3.0.6.32.20040421104555.00912e10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040421185408.00914b10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <31397fa34c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <3.0.6.32.20040421185408.00914b10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> "Joe R." wrote: > That sounds typical of the scrappers in this area. They'll sell you their > worthless trash as gold scrap but their real gold scrap is carefully hidden > and guarded. Anyone seen the "Lord of the Rings" movies? "The precious, we wantses it... we wantses it..." :) Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Goldfish shoals nibbling at my toes... -Red Dwarf- From gerold.pauler at gmx.net Thu Apr 22 04:40:23 2004 From: gerold.pauler at gmx.net (Gerold Pauler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Selectric Terminal References: <200404220034.12800.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <40879307.6090901@gmx.net> IIRC the computer museum of the University Stuttgart (Germany) has interfaced a similar machine (Autotypist 735) to a pdp8/L. I finally got my MC72 MagCard Selectric to Berlin but still had no time to play with it. Patrick Finnegan schrieb: > So, I decided "what the hell" and got one of these: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3810203578 > > The auction calls it a Selectric model 731, and it's got a 55 pin round > "Mil Spec"-style connector on it. At this connector all control and status lines (relay magnets and contacts should be available). Older threads should have more information about interfacing IBM selectrics to a micro (Byte Mag). If you don't find them in the archives I can look them up. > > Does anyone know anything about these? The only reference I've found via > Google is to using this model of Selectric on a PDP-6. > > Pat Hope this helps Gerold From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Apr 22 03:43:26 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Trouble getting IRIX 3.3 instaled. Message-ID: <20040422104326.4f7cdceb.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Hi. I am trying to install IRIX 3.3 on a PI 4D35. I have distribution tapes and a 4D35 support tape as distcp(1M) images on disk. I created tapes from this images with distcp(1M) on IRIX 4.0.5. I can boot the standalone tools from the 4D35 support tape. But I can't install anything. I get allways: Reading product descriptor from : Can't read product descriptor. is the tape device or the disk directory. When I had problems with the tapes I mounted the IRIX 4.0.5 disk by hand and pointed the install system to it with the "from" command. Same result: "Can't read product descriptor." Whats wrong here? -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu Apr 22 06:29:25 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Selectric Terminal In-Reply-To: <40879307.6090901@gmx.net> Message-ID: Cira 1976 I developed a custom (wirewrap) interface between a Selectric 731 and the original TRS-80 model I. Could only get 9.5 chars per sec out of it though.... Still have the board in my boxes of old sentimental stuff.. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Gerold Pauler >>> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 5:40 AM >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>> Subject: Re: Selectric Terminal >>> >>> IIRC the computer museum of the University Stuttgart >>> (Germany) has interfaced a similar machine (Autotypist 735) >>> to a pdp8/L. >>> >>> I finally got my MC72 MagCard Selectric to Berlin but still >>> had no time to play with it. >>> >>> Patrick Finnegan schrieb: >>> > So, I decided "what the hell" and got one of these: >>> > >>> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3810203578 >>> > >>> > The auction calls it a Selectric model 731, and it's got a 55 pin >>> > round "Mil Spec"-style connector on it. >>> >>> At this connector all control and status lines (relay >>> magnets and contacts should be available). Older threads >>> should have more information about interfacing IBM >>> selectrics to a micro (Byte Mag). >>> If you don't find them in the archives I can look them up. >>> >>> > >>> > Does anyone know anything about these? The only >>> reference I've found >>> > via Google is to using this model of Selectric on a PDP-6. >>> > >>> > Pat >>> >>> Hope this helps >>> Gerold >>> From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Apr 22 07:09:44 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: AN/GSO-221 In-Reply-To: <200404220256.i3M2uPE8001741@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <20040422014828.13745.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040422080944.00834da0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:56 PM 4/21/04 -0700, Zane wrote: >> Oddly compelling auction: >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=4125610204& >> rd=1 >> >> Anyone know exactly what he's got? >> >> Ken > >That description is pretty much worthless. The military has put a lot of >32-bit Hardware in 19" racks over the years. Unless someone knows what a >AN/GSO-221 is, or for that matter what the "GSO" stands for.... AN stands for joint Army Navy Specification. The first letter indicates the installation location and G stands for Ground Equipment (General) The next letter indicates the type of equipment and S means special or combination equipment. The third character indicates the items purpose but O is not listed as a valid character. In fact, I think O may be a typo since they usually avoid using O in reference designations to avoid confusion with the character 0 (zero). (Same with I and 1). The numbers should indicate the position of that item in the sequence of similar items but without knowing what O means then we can't guess at much other than the fact that there have been 220 items of a similar nature. Oh and it's most likely produced in the US. The US uses low numbers (0 to 500), Canada, the UK and other countries use higher range numbers (500 to 599 and 2200 to 2299 for Canada and UK, respectively). > >It could simply be something like a HP 9000/750. That's exactly right. MORE: I did a google search and found this . Part of this radio system is an AN/GSO-187. That will give you an idea of what the AN/GSO classification is used for. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Apr 22 07:12:47 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Ebay Heartbreak (was: ebay shenanigans) In-Reply-To: <31397fa34c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040421185408.00914b10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040421104555.00912e10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1d5.1f38e096.2db760c4@aol.com> <3.0.6.32.20040421104555.00912e10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040421185408.00914b10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040422081247.00837780@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:49 AM 4/22/04 +0100, Phil wrote: >In message <3.0.6.32.20040421185408.00914b10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> > "Joe R." wrote: > >> That sounds typical of the scrappers in this area. They'll sell you their >> worthless trash as gold scrap but their real gold scrap is carefully hidden >> and guarded. >Anyone seen the "Lord of the Rings" movies? >"The precious, we wantses it... we wantses it..." ROFL!! Oh man, that really fits! LOL! Joe From brianmahoney at look.ca Thu Apr 22 07:15:00 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Dead Mac IIfx References: Message-ID: <002901c42863$8166fc60$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Witchy" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 2:47 PM Subject: Dead Mac IIfx > Hi folks, > > After getting a nubus ethernet card and a radius 24bit accelerator I thought > I'd dig out my olde IIfx......trouble is it's refusing to power up even with > different keyboards/known good PRAM batteries. It worked when I got it a > couple of years ago; I even treated it to knew batteries, so anyone know of > any instant fixes for dead machines? > I'm going to steal the PSU from my other Mac II and see if it makes a > difference....I know they're the same apart from the IIfx one has a variable > speed fan. > > Cheers, > > -- > Adrian/Witchy > Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > > This page has a chart which might be of interest. Doesn't pertain to original post since a non-boot doesn't seem to involve pram/nvram or cudas. Pretty good troubleshooting page though. bm From cheri-post at web.de Thu Apr 22 07:29:25 2004 From: cheri-post at web.de (Pierre Gebhardt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: DEC VR241-A color monitor in Germany available ! Message-ID: <343838898@web.de> > For a rough test, set the switches on the back to 'Internal sync' and > 'Terminated' (they'll be set like this if it was used on a 'Bow) and then > feed a composite mono signal into the green BNC socket. 'Internal Sync' > is sync-on-green, of coruse. > > If yoy get a green image on the screen, then the monitor is basically > working. You could still have a problem with the red or blue video > amplifiers, but theyr'e not hard to fix (unlike the horrible > PSU/horizontal deflection system -- I still shudder when I remember that > schematic!). > > -tony Thanks alot for your hints Tony and Paul, I'll give it a try at home. Pierre _______________________________________________________________________ ... and the winner is... WEB.DE FreeMail! - Deutschlands beste E-Mail ist zum 39. Mal Testsieger (PC Praxis 03/04) http://f.web.de/?mc=021191 From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Apr 22 07:46:02 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Camera's are off topic! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1082637961.19670.21.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-04-21 at 22:44, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > TSIA, thanks! > > I thought the whole point of CCtalk was to allow the odd off-topic thread > (CCtech being the list with only on-topic stuff). I sat there wondering what "TSIA" means - the only things I could come up with were rude :-) From allain at panix.com Thu Apr 22 08:48:20 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: lookup(TSIA) = Title Says It All. Google is your friend. References: <1082637961.19670.21.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <004b01c42870$7ad14600$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> From allain at panix.com Thu Apr 22 08:54:35 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Selectric Terminal References: <200404220034.12800.pat@computer-refuge.org> <40879307.6090901@gmx.net> Message-ID: <005901c42871$58f233e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > IIRC the computer museum of the University Stuttgart > (Germany) has interfaced a similar machine (Autotypist > 735) to a pdp8/L. I took apart an Autotypist (someone had already chucked the Typewriter that bayonets on top) back in 1980. The damn thing was a pneumatic player-piano mechanism, punched hole piano rolls and all. About equal in geek factor to an analog computer. John A. From cb at mythtech.net Thu Apr 22 09:04:48 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: On-Topic digital camera (was Re: Camera's are off topic!) Message-ID: >I was SOL with Linux - I had to fire up a 68K Mac (there is no installer >for PPC) _just_ to dump the camera and convert the QT-encoded PICTs to >JPGs. I did use GC, but it wasn't my first choice - I'd rather use a >Perl script. First you should have been able to install on a PPC anyway. 2nd, I'm pretty sure I have a PPC disk for the QT100 install. And even if I don't, I have only ever used my 100 on a PPC, so I know the software installs and runs just fine on a PPC running OS 9.1 If you want me to pull out my disks and check, and send to you anything I have, just let me know. The 100 and 150 software I think is the same, as the only real difference between them was the 150 has more memory and an attachable macro lens (the 100 could even be upgraded to a 150 if you wanted to pay Apple's price to do it) -chris From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Apr 22 09:25:24 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Selectric Terminal References: <200404220034.12800.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <16519.54740.23000.602996@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Patrick" == Patrick Finnegan writes: Patrick> So, I decided "what the hell" and got one of these: Patrick> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3810203578 Patrick> The auction calls it a Selectric model 731, and it's got a Patrick> 55 pin round "Mil Spec"-style connector on it. Patrick> Does anyone know anything about these? The only reference Patrick> I've found via Google is to using this model of Selectric on Patrick> a PDP-6. The link to "additional photos" is unfortunately broken. And I can't see the keyboard well enough to decipher the keycaps. That might provide a clue. http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/ioSelectric/CE_instructionManual.pdf describes several Selectric models, including the 731. There are several other manuals in that directory (one has over 300 pages...) that might be helpful. I didn't see anything that describes the connector, though. paul From mmaginnis1151 at msn.com Thu Apr 22 09:32:59 2004 From: mmaginnis1151 at msn.com (Michael Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: AN/GSO-221 In-Reply-To: <20040422014828.13745.qmail@mail.seefried.com> References: <200404211700.i3LH03JB077181@huey.classiccmp.org> <20040422014828.13745.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Message-ID: <4087D79B.2070204@msn.com> Ken Seefried wrote: > Oddly compelling auction: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=4125610204& > rd=1 > Anyone know exactly what he's got? > Ken > > . > According to this page: http://www.designation-systems.net/usmilav/electronics.html the G-- --- designation referred to Airborne Radio Transmitting Equipment(Classification canceled - Reassigned "AT" series.) (Section 2.2 Navy, Sets and Systems) Also has detailed explanations of the Joint Electronics Type Designation System (The "AN" System). -- Mike #===== =====# # Apple II user since 1983 # # "Fighting the frizzies at eleven" # #===== =====# From pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org Thu Apr 22 09:38:53 2004 From: pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Selectric Terminal References: <200404220034.12800.pat@computer-refuge.org> <16519.54740.23000.602996@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <026301c42877$8978a160$4601a8c0@ebrius> I remember seeing a device that turned a selectric II into a printer... you glued these little hooks on the top, and then attatched a doo-hickey with about 92 little plungers, that basically typed the output. Wholey Kludgy device, batman! "I guess that every form of refuge has its price." --The Eagles -------------------------------------------------------------- Website - http://www.retrobbs.org Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org BBS - http://bbs.retrobbs.org:8000 IRC - irc.retrobbs.org #main WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Koning" To: Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 3:25 PM Subject: Re: Selectric Terminal > >>>>> "Patrick" == Patrick Finnegan writes: > > Patrick> So, I decided "what the hell" and got one of these: > Patrick> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3810203578 > > Patrick> The auction calls it a Selectric model 731, and it's got a > Patrick> 55 pin round "Mil Spec"-style connector on it. > > Patrick> Does anyone know anything about these? The only reference > Patrick> I've found via Google is to using this model of Selectric on > Patrick> a PDP-6. > > The link to "additional photos" is unfortunately broken. And I can't > see the keyboard well enough to decipher the keycaps. That might > provide a clue. > > http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/ioSelectric/CE_instructionManual.pdf > describes several Selectric models, including the 731. There are > several other manuals in that directory (one has over 300 pages...) > that might be helpful. I didn't see anything that describes the > connector, though. > > paul > > From mmaginnis1151 at msn.com Thu Apr 22 09:43:00 2004 From: mmaginnis1151 at msn.com (Michael Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: AN/GSO-221 In-Reply-To: <4087D79B.2070204@msn.com> References: <200404211700.i3LH03JB077181@huey.classiccmp.org> <20040422014828.13745.qmail@mail.seefried.com> <4087D79B.2070204@msn.com> Message-ID: <4087D9F4.6060707@msn.com> Michael Maginnis wrote: > Ken Seefried wrote: > >> Oddly compelling auction: >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=4125610204& >> rd=1 >> Anyone know exactly what he's got? >> Ken >> >> . >> > > According to this page: > > http://www.designation-systems.net/usmilav/electronics.html > > the G-- --- designation referred to Airborne Radio Transmitting > Equipment(Classification canceled - Reassigned "AT" series.) (Section > 2.2 Navy, Sets and Systems) > > Also has detailed explanations of the Joint Electronics Type Designation > System (The "AN" System). > Although, the above reference doesn't fall under the AN system. So, more likely, the O is a typo (as mentioned in a previous post). -- Mike #===== =====# # Apple II user since 1983 # # "Fighting the frizzies at eleven" # #===== =====# From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Apr 22 10:38:33 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Got that INS8073 SBC to respond! In-Reply-To: <20040421235804.GA6800@bos7.spole.gov> References: <20040421235804.GA6800@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <66a3afa34c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <20040421235804.GA6800@bos7.spole.gov> Ethan Dicks wrote: > Let me recommend the INS8073 for anyone who wants that late-70s/early-80s > BASIC experience in a bread-board computer. I think you could put one > together on a single (large) breadboard slab. You'd need 40 pins for > the CPU, another 24 to 32 pins for the SRAM, and some sort of RS-232 > level shifter, like a MAX-232. The rest is all caps and resistors. There's also a Tiny BASIC interpreter available for the Intel 8052. Connect a RAM to the 8052, add a NAND gate or two if you want to use the "CALL" function, add the standard MAX232 and 11.0592MHz crystal and program the 8052 with the Intel Tiny BASIC interpreter hexfile. I think you can also add an external EPROM or parallel EEPROM to emulate a disc drive. What I would like to do at some point is get Tiny BASIC running on one of my spare 8052s, then hook it up to a MultiMediaCard. Of course, the MMCA want $500 for the MultiMediaCard spec. About the only thing that the MMCA spec covers that the Renesas, SanDisk and Infineon Product Manuals doesn't is the allocation of Manufacturer IDs - I know Sandisk use 0x02, Renesas use 0x06, but there are at least another four MMC manufacturers around. I've got an MMC here that's got a MID of 0x01 and a product ID of "IFX064". Hmm. Now we get to debate the advantages and disadvantages of hooking a modern 64MB memory card up to a 1980s microcontroller. No doubt someone's going to shout at me for suggesting it :) Anyway, congratulations on getting your INS8073 running. One of these days, I'll probably pull an 8052 out of my junkbox and put it to some use (just as soon as I've built a programmer for it). Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Procrastination means never having to say you're sorry. From evan947 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 22 11:02:52 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs Message-ID: <20040422160252.14301.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Time Magazines calls him "the force behind the Macintosh"... I wonder what Jef Raskin would make of that comment. http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/04/16/jobs/ From bernd at kopriva.de Thu Apr 22 11:10:07 2004 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: New find; HP HyperViper In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040421192423.00898b80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200404221621.i3MGLEJ2087691@huey.classiccmp.org> Hi Joe, does it run a version of HP Pascal too ? Thanks Bernd On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:24:23 -0400, Joe R. wrote: > Today I finally had a chance to check out a PC that I found a few weeks >ago. I had picked it up becuase it had an HP-IB connector on one of the >expansion cards. When I looked closer I saw that the card had a sticker >marked "HP 82324". Bingo! That's the part number of the souped-up >Measurement Coprocessor card that's commonly called a HyperViper! I have a >number of Viper cards with 68000 CPUs but I'd never even seen a HyperViper >card. The HyperViper uses a 16MHz 68030 CPU. The Vipers and HyperVipers are >HP 9000 series 200 or series 300 computers on a board. You install them in >a PC and run a driver and it switches over to the 680xx CPU and runs >(almost!) exactly like HP 9000 computer. It has a built-in HP-IB port and >supports additional HP-IB cards. It also mounts a HP 9000 file system in >one file on the PCs hard drive. It uses the PC's parallel and serial ports >and uses the PC's keybaord and monitor for user I/O. Anyway today I opened >it up and cleaned all the dirt and insects out and fired it up. It booted >to DOS then loaded the HP software then switched over to the HyperViper >card and booted HP BASIC version 6.2 (Rocky Mountain BASIC) without a >hitch. Wahoo! I'm in business now! It even has the last version (D.00.00) >of the HP divers. > > HP's Viper and HyperViper site >> > > > Joe From brian at quarterbyte.com Thu Apr 22 11:28:49 2004 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Selectric Terminal Message-ID: <006401c42886$e49a1b50$0200a8c0@vaio> I have one of the these too. They were standard IBM IO Selectrics, modified electrically for what appears to be use on a military aircraft. I'm planning on building a serial or USB interface for it so I can use it as a remote terminal for my IBM 1130 simulator. I've gathered a lot of information about it including the connector, signals etc. If you're interested, let me know and I'll send you what I have. These machines being sold on eBay, by the way, are in wonderful shape mechanically but most likely have a shorted or open control soleloid. Brian From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 22 11:26:09 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs In-Reply-To: <20040422160252.14301.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Apr 2004, evan wrote: > Time Magazines calls him "the force behind the > Macintosh"... I wonder what Jef Raskin would make of > that comment. > > http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/04/16/jobs/ Jobs met Wozniak when he was still in high school (introduced to each other by Bill Fernandez). Wasn't it Jobs who got the job for Woz at Atari? I'll have to go back and read some notes. Anyway, niggling little details. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cb at mythtech.net Thu Apr 22 11:37:00 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs Message-ID: >Jobs met Wozniak when he was still in high school (introduced to each >other by Bill Fernandez). Wasn't it Jobs who got the job for Woz at >Atari? I wasn't sure when they met, but I did seem to recall that Jobs did get Woz the Atari job. Wasn't that where Jobs was working, and they wanted to design a handheld game, and Jobs got Woz to do it, and he did it so well, Atari couldn't figure out exactly how he did it. Or am I mixing up another incident (or possibly even an urban legend) -chris From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Apr 22 11:38:08 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: New find; HP HyperViper In-Reply-To: <200404221621.i3MGLEJ2087691@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <3.0.6.32.20040421192423.00898b80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040422123808.008688e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:10 PM 4/22/04 +0200, you wrote: >Hi Joe, >does it run a version of HP Pascal too ? I'm not sure but I believe it will. I think I remember reading that it will boot an OS from an external HP-IB drive just like a regular 9000/200 will. I need to dig out a drive and try it. Joe > >Thanks Bernd > >On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:24:23 -0400, Joe R. wrote: > >> Today I finally had a chance to check out a PC that I found a few weeks >>ago. I had picked it up becuase it had an HP-IB connector on one of the >>expansion cards. When I looked closer I saw that the card had a sticker >>marked "HP 82324". Bingo! That's the part number of the souped-up >>Measurement Coprocessor card that's commonly called a HyperViper! I have a >>number of Viper cards with 68000 CPUs but I'd never even seen a HyperViper >>card. The HyperViper uses a 16MHz 68030 CPU. The Vipers and HyperVipers are >>HP 9000 series 200 or series 300 computers on a board. You install them in >>a PC and run a driver and it switches over to the 680xx CPU and runs >>(almost!) exactly like HP 9000 computer. It has a built-in HP-IB port and >>supports additional HP-IB cards. It also mounts a HP 9000 file system in >>one file on the PCs hard drive. It uses the PC's parallel and serial ports >>and uses the PC's keybaord and monitor for user I/O. Anyway today I opened >>it up and cleaned all the dirt and insects out and fired it up. It booted >>to DOS then loaded the HP software then switched over to the HyperViper >>card and booted HP BASIC version 6.2 (Rocky Mountain BASIC) without a >>hitch. Wahoo! I'm in business now! It even has the last version (D.00.00) >>of the HP divers. >> >> HP's Viper and HyperViper site >> >> >> >> Joe > > > > From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Apr 22 11:50:45 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Apr 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 22 Apr 2004, evan wrote: > > > Time Magazines calls him "the force behind the > > Jobs met Wozniak when he was still in high school (introduced to each > other by Bill Fernandez). Wasn't it Jobs who got the job for Woz at > Atari? Wozniak was at HP - IIRC he tried to get HP interested in the home computer market - they just laughed and told him to get back to work... Ya readin' this, Carly??? Cheerz John From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Apr 22 12:16:08 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Wozniak was at HP - IIRC he tried to get HP interested in the home > computer market - they just laughed and told him to get back to work... > > > Ya readin' this, Carly??? > Nah, she's too busy sending jobs to India. g. From allain at panix.com Thu Apr 22 12:15:41 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs References: Message-ID: <05bf01c4288d$7832a020$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I remember the story about Jobs telling Woz about a programming contest that they were going to split the prize money 50/50 on. Woz got his $1K, said to be half, and later found that Jobs got lots more. Folkloric, and, IIRC. Woz+Jobs was possibly the most amazingly simple corporation in history. Brains+Greed, neither viable on their own. John A. > Ya readin' this, Carly??? Thank-you for that remark. From aek at spies.com Thu Apr 22 12:27:27 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs Message-ID: <200404221727.i3MHRR2o000339@spies.com> I wasn't sure when they met, but I did seem to recall that Jobs did get Woz the Atari job. Wasn't that where Jobs was working, and they wanted to design a handheld game, and Jobs got Woz to do it, and he did it so well, Atari couldn't figure out exactly how he did it. -- Woz never worked for Atari. He built the first prototype for the game that became Breakout. At the time, Bushnell would pay a bonus based on how few chips you could use for building a game. Woz used HP custom ICs, which were unavalable to the outside world to do it, so it had to be redesigned to take them out to get the game into production. Jobs was the Atari tech on the project (and was the one that got the bonus, which he never told Woz about..) This info was told to me by the VP of Engineering of Atari at the time this all happened. From mtapley at swri.edu Thu Apr 22 12:31:15 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Byte Sieve of Eratosthenes Results? In-Reply-To: <200404221700.i3MH03J2088099@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200404221700.i3MH03J2088099@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: All, A question: I wondered if results from the Byte Sieve of Eratosthenes "benchmark" are publicly available anywhere, or if I have to root out a copy of Byte Magazine? I googled for it, and found nice C and Forth versions at http://home.iae.nl/users/mhx/nsieve.html and *some* results, but I'd sort of like to re-read the original article and see what the results for all of the classic computers they tested were. The above URL cites Byte, Sept. 1981, pp. 180, and Jan. 1983, pp. 283. Copyright law being what it is, I assume the articles are still Byte magazine IP, but I'd think they could gain a fair amount of publicity from having that article posted somewhere as a "teaser", particularly if they link to some of the url's showing modern machine performance. Can't find such a pointer on their site, http://www.byte.com however. And the site itself is not encouraging. -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Apr 22 12:41:30 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Selectric Terminal References: Message-ID: <408803CA.1040506@jetnet.ab.ca> David V. Corbin wrote: > Cira 1976 I developed a custom (wirewrap) interface between a Selectric 731 > and the original TRS-80 model I. > Could only get 9.5 chars per sec out of it though.... > Still have the board in my boxes of old sentimental stuff.. In the late 1980's I got a the selectric console typewriter off a scrapped IBM-1130. In my attempts to get it to work with a Z80 single board computer I distroyed the machine by running it open loop at about the same IO speed. To take my advice and run it closed loop with carefull notice of all the timing involved. While the I don't have the docs ( or any other stuff ) looking for the console prints and schematics from the IBM-1130 may be usefull in giving ideas on how to run the beast. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Apr 22 12:53:21 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs In-Reply-To: <200404221727.i3MHRR2o000339@spies.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow > Sent: 22 April 2004 18:27 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Time article about Jobs > > Jobs was the Atari tech on the project (and was the one that got the > bonus, which he never told Woz about..) > > This info was told to me by the VP of Engineering of Atari at the > time this all happened. And it's all in 'The Ultimate History of Video Games' by Steve Kent, which is the full history of Atari (and subsidiaries), Sega, Nintendo, Coleco and many others. Excellent read full of interviews with the key players of the day. Well worth getting if you're into that sort of history like I am. Cheers w From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 22 13:21:16 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Apr 2004, chris wrote: > >Jobs met Wozniak when he was still in high school (introduced to each > >other by Bill Fernandez). Wasn't it Jobs who got the job for Woz at > >Atari? > > I wasn't sure when they met, but I did seem to recall that Jobs did get > Woz the Atari job. Wasn't that where Jobs was working, and they wanted to > design a handheld game, and Jobs got Woz to do it, and he did it so well, > Atari couldn't figure out exactly how he did it. Yes. The story goes that Jobs was given the job to do a Breakout game. He "outsourced" it to Woz. Jobs got $5K for the job and gave Woz only $350. Woz recounts the story on his website here: http://www.woz.org/letters/general/91.html As far as the design, Woz optimized it to such an extent (not letting any gate on any TTL go unused) that the Atari engineers could not follow the logic or the physical layout of the wirewrap...something like that. I asked Woz about it last year and he sent me a reply that was something to that effect. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Apr 22 13:28:58 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Selectric Terminal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040422112047.E68758@newshell.lmi.net> On Thu, 22 Apr 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > Cira 1976 I developed a custom (wirewrap) interface between a Selectric 731 > and the original TRS-80 model I. > > Could only get 9.5 chars per sec out of it though.... That's not bad. The spec max'ed at 14.8, and the mechanisms didn't live long if taken much past that. > Still have the board in my boxes of old sentimental stuff.. a friend wrote a word processor mailmerge program with lots of extra features that he called "FULL ST", to differentiate it from "MTST" I always enjoyed the add-on actuators - a box full of solenoids that sat on the keyboard pressing keys (Rochester Dynatyper and KGS-80) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 22 13:30:30 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Still looking for some manuals ($$$) Message-ID: I've still got a bounty out on the documentation for the following products (circa 1990-1991): Probe X (from the Strategic Software Group) HP GlancePlus HP PerfView HP OpenView IBM Tivoli IBM Netview Please contact me if you've got anything. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 22 13:33:08 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Weird items on VCM Message-ID: Someone just posted some odd items on the VCM. Anyone have any information on the MIT "Dumbkoff 1"? http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=608 >From the same seller, a Remington-Rand Selectron 256 bit Memory Tube: http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=607 -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Apr 22 14:20:38 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Available: DEC LA120 printer In-Reply-To: <20040421204350.GK19595@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <003801c4289e$f62525f0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > A warning about using DEC LA-120 (and similar) printers: > placing them on top of other classic computer equipment, with > rare and difficult to replace hard drives, particularly those > that are mounted vertically, can possibly do some damage as a > All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're > above Nature & > www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using > dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs > and to justify much human cruelty. Fractures sigs too :-) -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From brianmahoney at look.ca Thu Apr 22 14:26:57 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: TI Bubble Memory?(off topic - only to Bill Yakowenko) References: <20040422054122.1382.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001301c4289f$d8cc5f40$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Yakowenko" To: Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 1:41 AM Subject: Re: TI Bubble Memory? Hi Bill, Your email stopped working or I had it wrong on my list. Please resend me your info and I'll update the collector's list. Haven't seen you post here for awhile and I have no other way of getting in touch. Please reply to antiquecomputers@hotmail.com Thanks! bm __________________ Is your name on this list? It should be. http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25? http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Apr 22 14:42:47 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Available: DEC LA120 printer Message-ID: <0404221942.AA27426@ivan.Harhan.ORG> > From: "Antonio Carlini" > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 > X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 > > All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're > > above Nature & > > www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using > > dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs > > and to justify much human cruelty. > > Fractures sigs too :-) No, Antonio, it's your fucking shitty M$ Outcrook that fractures sigs. RDD's sig looks the way it's supposed to on my VT320 using a standard text mail program that doesn't stick its nose where it doesn't belong distorting ARPA Internet text mail messages. MS P.S. Sorry everyone for blowing my safety valve, and in particular no offense intended to Antonio, you've done some incredibly wonderful things, but it just pisses me off to no end when a presumed Classic computist uses M$ Outcrook for ClassicCmp mail rather than a proper text mail client on a text terminal. From wacarder at usit.net Thu Apr 22 15:03:31 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Weird items on VCM Message-ID: <003d01c428a4$e352d2a0$a0340f14@mcothran1> I can't find any reference to a Dumbkoff 1 orDumbkoff anything else computer related, although I did find the word "Dumbkoff" used to mean "idiot" or "someone stupid". I did find reference to the Remington-Rand 256 bit tube. Check this out: http://www.feb-patrimoine.com/Histoire/english/information_technology/inform ation_technology_2.htm - Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 2:33 PM > Subject: Weird items on VCM > > > > > > Someone just posted some odd items on the VCM. Anyone have any > > information on the MIT "Dumbkoff 1"? > > > > http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=608 > > > > >From the same seller, a Remington-Rand Selectron 256 bit Memory Tube: > > > > http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=607 > > > > -- > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > mputers ] > > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Apr 22 03:24:44 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: AN/GSO-221 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:56:25 PDT." <200404220256.i3M2uPE8001741@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <200404220824.JAA00584@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Zane H. Healy" said: That description is pretty much worthless. The military has put a lot of > 32-bit Hardware in 19" racks over the years. Unless someone knows what a > AN/GSO-221 is, or for that matter what the "GSO" stands for.... G = Ground,general S = Special type O = ??? (not in my list...) So I'm not much help... :-) Actually are you sure about the O? Usually O is avoided in these sort of things because of the potential confusion with zero. Could it be Q? That means "Special or combination of purposes" so not much help either! -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Apr 22 03:16:26 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: On-Topic digital camera (was Re: Camera's are off topic!) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 21 Apr 2004 23:27:03 -0000." <20040421232703.GA2986@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <200404220816.JAA00484@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Ethan Dicks said: > Until I bought my nice digital SLR last year, my digital camera was an > on-topic model - an Apple QuickTake 150... AFAIK, it came out in 1994. > I have a QT100 I bought in '94 and the manual is (C) 1994 so mebbe the QT150 was 1995, I know it came out pretty soon after the 100. > My one real beef with it (besides lots of compression artifacts and > its fixed-focus lens) is that the only way I was able to read the > pictures was to find a copy of the Apple install disks via a Mac > friend - Apple apparently included some 3rd-party software on the > disks that prevents them from making the disks available for free > download from Apple's support website. Portions of the software are copyright Image Software and Eastman Kodak according to the manual, so that could be the reason. > You can't even view the > pictures in their native format unless you've loaded the camera software; > they are PICTs, but the data segment of the PICT file is compressed > in a non-standard way, meaning that even Linux tools that know what > a PICT is can only describe the contents of the picture file from a > structural standpoint. Makes automating certain operations impossible. Graphics Converter on the Mac is the answer... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From MTPro at aol.com Thu Apr 22 15:03:48 2004 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs Message-ID: <3620C598.63621BA2.0000EF7A@aol.com> In a message dated 4/22/2004 1:00:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cctalk-request@classiccmp.org writes: > > Time Magazines calls him "the force behind the > Macintosh"... I wonder what Jef Raskin would make of > that comment. Though it is true that Jef Raskin started the Macintosh project at Apple in 1979, his Macintosh was to be an 8-bit utilitarian machine. It would have had a bit-mapped screen, but no GUI or a mouse at all. Jef Raskin has always been very devout in user interface which promotes keeping your hands on the keyboard. His 1987 Canon Cat is more along the lines of what Raskin's Mac would have been. Raskin simply gave Jobs an easy existing platform "vehicle" to take over, when Jobs was denied control of the much touted Lisa project. Raskin left Apple in 1982 after Jobs took over (but I think he still signed the Mac inside case - anyone?). Jobs wanted to out "Lisa" the Lisa project, and so the Macintosh quickly went from a $500 consumer computer, to $1000, to $1500 and finally to $1995 - that is before Sculley thought it should be $2500 minimally (thus was born Apple's outrageous profit margin on Macs). Jobs certainly does deserve a huge amount of credit, however wrong he might have treated anyone, for his pure force of will in the creation of the Mac as we knew/know. He forced some design decisions which were wrong and Apple paid for (closed architecture, etc.), but he was 90% on overall (appliance design, one button mouse). His direction with Apple in the last 6 years has been mostly very good. Apple's stock is steadily rising now. The Mac consumer market remains at about 6% in the US, but their server (OS X) market is growing big-time. The Mac OS is excellent. I still love to set up my cube and run NeXTSTEP 3.3, which I now understand a lot better. Here are some recent opinions of Jef Raskin's about the Mac: http://www.macminute.com/2004/02/11/jeffraskin Best, David, classiccomputing.com From wacarder at usit.net Thu Apr 22 15:16:12 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Available: DEC LA120 printer References: <0404221942.AA27426@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <004801c428a6$a9267ad0$a0340f14@mcothran1> Some of us use modern computers and technologies (yes, even Microsoft technologies), as well as keeping hold of, preserving, and maintaining an interest in past technologies. I use outlook at my company that endorses Microsoft, I use Lotus Notes at another company that prefers Lotus, I use html based email on the road or when I'm a random computer in a library or somewhere else that is connected to the internet. I don't even have a text-based email client up and running right now, although I might have one set up in the near future just for show-and-tell if I get a PDP-11/34 up and running and connected to the internet. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Sokolov" To: Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 3:42 PM Subject: RE: Available: DEC LA120 printer > > From: "Antonio Carlini" > > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 > > X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 > > > > All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're > > > above Nature & > > > www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using > > > dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs > > > and to justify much human cruelty. > > > > Fractures sigs too :-) > > No, Antonio, it's your fucking shitty M$ Outcrook that fractures sigs. > RDD's sig looks the way it's supposed to on my VT320 using a standard text mail > program that doesn't stick its nose where it doesn't belong distorting ARPA > Internet text mail messages. > > MS > > P.S. Sorry everyone for blowing my safety valve, and in particular no offense > intended to Antonio, you've done some incredibly wonderful things, but it just > pisses me off to no end when a presumed Classic computist uses M$ Outcrook for > ClassicCmp mail rather than a proper text mail client on a text terminal. From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Thu Apr 22 15:36:20 2004 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs In-Reply-To: <3620C598.63621BA2.0000EF7A@aol.com> Message-ID: <1gcnc8e.1ykpyh88mevrgM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > Here are some recent opinions of Jef Raskin's about the Mac: > http://www.macminute.com/2004/02/11/jeffraskin Andy Hertzfeld agrees with you that Jobs is the father of the Macintosh: -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com Bright From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Apr 22 15:51:09 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Available: DEC LA120 printer In-Reply-To: <004801c428a6$a9267ad0$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <0404221942.AA27426@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <004801c428a6$a9267ad0$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <20040422205109.GO19595@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Ashley Carder, from writings of Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 04:16:12PM -0400: > Some of us use modern computers and technologies (yes, even Microsoft > technologies), So do I. I'm using Mutt as the mail user agent on my PC, running a recent version of FreeBSD; mutt is modern technology and it's text based. Try it, you might like the way it does things right. Is it just me, or do others get a feeling most peculiar when seeing the words "Micro$oft" and "technologies" together in the same sentence? > I use outlook at my company that endorses Microsoft, I use Lotus Notes at > another > company that prefers Lotus, Why? Just because some supervisor says to do something is no reason to do something if it's senseless. > I use html based email on the road or when I'm a > random > computer in a library or somewhere else that is connected to the internet. Ok, well, when you seemingly have no choice... but you do: as a taxpayer, you certainly should be able to take a set of Linux or FreeBSD CD-ROMs with you to a public library and use them to "repair" at least one of their computer systems. Doing so may certainly freak a pretentious librarian out, who claims to know something about computers and doesn't, but that's not something that you need concern yourself with. Hence, if a librarian starts jumping up and down and screaming when your work is discovered, or in progress, consider it entertainment and don't forget to say "One is supposed to be quiet in a library, and as a librarian, you ought to know that! I should file a complaint. What's your name?" :-) > I don't even have a > text-based email client up and running right now, although I might have one > set up > in the near future just for show-and-tell if I get a PDP-11/34 up and Just for show and tell? Why not for useful functionality? -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved | My VAX | an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & www.rddavis.org | runs VMS & | her other creatures, using dogma to justify such 410-744-4900 | doesn't crash!| beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Apr 22 15:47:09 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Available: DEC LA120 printer Message-ID: <0404222047.AA27555@ivan.Harhan.ORG> R. D. Davis wrote: > Just for show and tell? Why not for useful functionality? That's exactly my point. MS From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Apr 22 15:49:43 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Available: DEC LA120 printer In-Reply-To: <20040422205109.GO19595@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: > Why? Just because some supervisor says to do something is no reason > to do something if it's senseless. It depends on how much you like your paycheck. > taxpayer, you certainly should be able to take a set of Linux or > FreeBSD CD-ROMs with you to a public library and use them to "repair" > at least one of their computer systems. Doing so may certainly freak > a pretentious librarian out, who claims to know something about > computers and doesn't, but that's not something that you need concern > yourself with. Not with any of the librarians I know. They would not freak out - stay cool and collected - as they telephone the police... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From wacarder at usit.net Thu Apr 22 16:05:38 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:03 2005 Subject: Available: DEC LA120 printer References: Message-ID: <00c901c428ad$90da85f0$a0340f14@mcothran1> I like my paycheck a lot. Keeping up with the modern "technologies" and developing systems on them that big companies will pay lots of money for has allowed me to make a good living for the last 25 years or so, and has helped me purchase a 68 acre farm, build a nice home on a 6 acre pond/lake, and send my kid to college. That paycheck also allows me to attempt to purchase "Classic Computer" stuff. I also have not forgotten that I owe a lot to the older technologies. That's where I got started. If I had not met the PDP 11/40 in 1976, I would not be where I am today. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Donzelli" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 4:49 PM Subject: Re: Available: DEC LA120 printer > > Why? Just because some supervisor says to do something is no reason > > to do something if it's senseless. > > It depends on how much you like your paycheck. > > > taxpayer, you certainly should be able to take a set of Linux or > > FreeBSD CD-ROMs with you to a public library and use them to "repair" > > at least one of their computer systems. Doing so may certainly freak > > a pretentious librarian out, who claims to know something about > > computers and doesn't, but that's not something that you need concern > > yourself with. > > Not with any of the librarians I know. They would not freak out - stay > cool and collected - as they telephone the police... > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Apr 22 16:05:51 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Available: DEC LA120 printer In-Reply-To: References: <20040422205109.GO19595@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040422165953.04b4aec0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that William Donzelli may have mentioned these words: > > Why? Just because some supervisor says to do something is no reason > > to do something if it's senseless. > >It depends on how much you like your paycheck. Unforch, that is the way it goes sometimes... > > taxpayer, you certainly should be able to take a set of Linux or > > FreeBSD CD-ROMs with you to a public library and use them to "repair" > > at least one of their computer systems. Doing so may certainly freak > > a pretentious librarian out, who claims to know something about > > computers and doesn't, but that's not something that you need concern > > yourself with. > >Not with any of the librarians I know. They would not freak out - stay >cool and collected - as they telephone the police... Then you could make 'em look *real* foolish - download a Linux distro called "Knoppix" -> it boots & runs off of CD. Once you're done, reboot & yank the disk, it's back to winblows... It's a good testing platform, and if you like it, it can install itself to the hard drive just the way you see it, but you certainly don't have to... ... but I don't wanna get yelled at Jay, so I'll just say that my Model 100 came in the mail today, so I'll be futzing with my DVIs over the weekend... ;-) ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Randomization is better!!! If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Apr 22 16:22:38 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Help Price for a NEC PC-9800 series Message-ID: <000601c428af$f1a35ea0$11406b43@66067007> Need a value for a NEC 9801/VX desktop computer a Japanese model with manual and 250 floppy diskette (all in Japanese). Also has keyboard and box with a new harddrive in it. Any help would be great and thanks for your time. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 22 16:23:00 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Available: DEC LA120 printer In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040422165953.04b4aec0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Apr 2004, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Then you could make 'em look *real* foolish - download a Linux distro > called "Knoppix" -> it boots & runs off of CD. Once you're done, reboot & > yank the disk, it's back to winblows... That's actually a really good point. I wonder if Librarians could be properly educated about Knoppix (certainly on a library by library basis). A decent (though not terribly crafty) analogy is that the computer is now like a pad of paper and a pen. You come in and use the paper that you need, then rip those pages out and take them with you. The pad is then made fresh for use for the next person. The computer is now just hardware, and soon enough, with cool technology like keychain harddrives or what not, you'll bring in your own OS and software tools and modify the hardware to your purposes, leaving it as it was for the next user. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From effectivehcps at bellsouth.net Thu Apr 22 14:10:40 2004 From: effectivehcps at bellsouth.net (Larry Royster) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: EC-1 Message-ID: <000801c4289d$81330ec0$210110ac@gateway.2wire.net> Dwight, I ran across your posting about the EC-1. I am afraid I go back to the EC-1 period and used hybrid analog-very early digital computers at North American in the early 60s. I wondered if you knew of a source for a fairly good condition EC-1? I just purchased one and am in the process of getting it to work again. But would like to have a second unit to share parts with, etc. Hope this gets to you. Thanks. Larry Royster. From ashley at carderweb.com Thu Apr 22 14:22:05 2004 From: ashley at carderweb.com (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Weird items on VCM References: Message-ID: <001201c4289f$1944d8f0$a0340f14@mcothran1> I can't find any reference to a Dumbkoff 1 orDumbkoff anything else computer related, although I did find the word "Dumbkoff" used to mean "idiot" or "someone stupid". I did find reference to the Remington-Rand 256 bit tube. Check this out: http://www.feb-patrimoine.com/Histoire/english/information_technology/inform ation_technology_2.htm - Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 2:33 PM Subject: Weird items on VCM > > Someone just posted some odd items on the VCM. Anyone have any > information on the MIT "Dumbkoff 1"? > > http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=608 > > >From the same seller, a Remington-Rand Selectron 256 bit Memory Tube: > > http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=607 > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From aek at spies.com Thu Apr 22 16:47:58 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs Message-ID: <200404222147.i3MLlwiD001942@spies.com> As far as the design, Woz optimized it to such an extent (not letting any gate on any TTL go unused) that the Atari engineers could not follow the logic or the physical layout of the wirewrap...something like that. -- sure... and there's an Easter bunny too. see my previous post for the truth. From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Apr 22 16:47:25 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Weird items on VCM In-Reply-To: <001201c4289f$1944d8f0$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040422174023.0468ef28@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Ashley Carder may have mentioned these words: >I can't find any reference to a Dumbkoff 1 orDumbkoff anything else >computer related, although I did find the word "Dumbkoff" used to mean >"idiot" or "someone stupid". It's a misspelling of Dummkopf, which (most literally) in German is: Dumm == Dumb Kopf == head A closer translation would probably be "addlebrained". >I did find reference to the Remington-Rand 256 bit tube. Check this out: > >http://www.feb-patrimoine.com/Histoire/english/information_technology/inform >ation_technology_2.htm That's pretty cool... thanks for the link! Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From dave04a at dunfield.com Thu Apr 22 17:00:19 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Byte Sieve of Eratosthenes Results? Message-ID: <200404222200.i3MM0JJ2091395@huey.classiccmp.org> At 12:31 22/04/2004 -0500, you wrote: >All, > A question: I wondered if results from the Byte Sieve of >Eratosthenes "benchmark" are publicly available anywhere, or if I >have to root out a copy of Byte Magazine? I googled for it, and found >nice C and Forth versions at > >http://home.iae.nl/users/mhx/nsieve.html > >and *some* results, but I'd sort of like to re-read the original >article and see what the results for all of the classic computers >they tested were. > The above URL cites Byte, Sept. 1981, pp. 180, and Jan. 1983, >pp. 283. Copyright law being what it is, I assume the articles are >still Byte magazine IP, but I'd think they could gain a fair amount >of publicity from having that article posted somewhere as a "teaser", >particularly if they link to some of the url's showing modern machine >performance. Can't find such a pointer on their site, >http://www.byte.com however. And the site itself is not encouraging. >-- > - Mark > 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 Hi Mark, I happen to have an August 1983 BYTE magazine in front of me, which has an artical entitled "Comparing C Compilers for CP/M-86" in which they use the Sieve as one of their main benchmarks. They are testing Williams, Desmet, Lattice, Computer Innovations and Digital Research tools. The artical is fairly long - about 13 pages. If this is of interest to you, I could scan it and put it somewhere where you can get it. Btw, this particular issue (Aug 83) is entitled "The C Language", and has a lot of good material in it: Theres also a comparison of 5 CPM/80 compilers which also uses the Sieve as one of the main benchmarks, There's alse a comparison of 9 PC/DOS compilers, but I don't think (from cursory re-read) that they use the Sieve in that one. On top of that, there's an artical by Steve Johnston and Brian Kernighan describing a lot of the design philosophy and early experiences, a couple of general "into to C" type articals, and artical on C in unix systems, A C bibliography, an artical on C compatibility issues between Unix and CP/M and a bunch more - really a good issue (which is why it's one of the few I've kept). Don't think I want to scan the whole thing (unless you want to wait a *LONG* time) - but I will do what I can to get any parts you are interested in to you. Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 22 17:03:27 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs In-Reply-To: <200404222147.i3MLlwiD001942@spies.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Apr 2004, Al Kossow wrote: > As far as the design, Woz optimized it to such an extent (not letting any > gate on any TTL go unused) that the Atari engineers could not follow the > logic or the physical layout of the wirewrap...something like that. > > -- > > sure... > > and there's an Easter bunny too. > > see my previous post for the truth. My recollection may be off, but this is straight from Woz, Al. His recollection may be off as well, as could yours. And there *is* an Easter bunny. Or at least there was . -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Apr 22 18:09:20 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage > Computer Festival > Sent: 22 April 2004 23:03 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Time article about Jobs > > My recollection may be off, but this is straight from Woz, > Al. His recollection may be off as well, as could yours. > > And there *is* an Easter bunny. Or at least there was . I just ate my second last easter chocolate today. Also, your recollection and Woz's matches this book I mentioned before. If needs be I'll re-read it and find the quote. I definitely remember bits about Woz coming up with a design that couldn't be reproduced cheaply....if anyone really cares I'll soon be based in the south of england with nothing better to do than read books at night, apart from work as a Digipaq field circus engineer during the day of course. Cheers w From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 22 18:26:17 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Selectric Terminal In-Reply-To: <20040422112047.E68758@newshell.lmi.net> from "Fred Cisin" at Apr 22, 4 11:28:58 am Message-ID: > I always enjoyed the add-on actuators - a box full of solenoids that sat > on the keyboard pressing keys (Rochester Dynatyper and KGS-80) A couple of related devices : The well-known Friden Flexowriters have a device _under_ the keyboard that has hooks that fir over pins on each key bar. The device decodes the incoming character (fed in to 8 solenoids in the box) and pulls down the appropriate key. I beleive HP service centres has boxes of solenoids that fitted over the keyboards of HP calculators. Some of the diagnostics would consist of firing these solenoids in the right order and chrcking you got the right display (thus checking both keyboard and logic of the calculator). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 22 18:01:56 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Selectric Terminal In-Reply-To: from "David V. Corbin" at Apr 22, 4 07:29:25 am Message-ID: > > Cira 1976 I developed a custom (wirewrap) interface between a Selectric 731 > and the original TRS-80 model I. Doesn't that pre-date the model 1 ? :-) > > Could only get 9.5 chars per sec out of it though.... Yes, but it sure beat copying down listings by hand. My first printer was the CGP115 -- one of those little 4-ballpoint-pen plotters using the Alps mechanism (the one used in the CBM 1520, one of the Atari printers, etc). It did 12 cps if you were lucky on 4" paper. But I could set it listing out my BASIC or assembler programs and come back when it had finished. It was a lot better than writing them down from the screen! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 22 18:14:28 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Apr 22, 4 12:50:45 pm Message-ID: > Wozniak was at HP - IIRC he tried to get HP interested in the home > computer market - they just laughed and told him to get back to work... I've seen this comment before, and it's rather unfair on HP. At the time, HP were known for making some of _the best_ measuring instruments. They were not really interested in the mass market. Their aim was to sell the best, albeit at a high price. They'd been making desktop computers that ran BASIC for about 5 years when the Apple ][ came out. Having used the HP's of that period and the Apple ][, I am convinced that the HP was the better design, better built, although it probably cost 10 times as much. I can therefore understand why HP were not interested in the Apple. It would have been like showing them the $10 pocket calculator and expecting them to be interested in making it, when at the time they were making machines like the HP67 (a machine, BTW that I still use regularly). This may, in retrospect, have been a silly decision on HP's part, but I am not convinced. Personally I wish they still made top-quality stuff (instead of cheaply-made printers and digital cameras) with prices to match. Because that's what they were really good at! -tony From aek at spies.com Thu Apr 22 19:02:50 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs Message-ID: <200404230002.i3N02ocV004810@spies.com> > My recollection may be off, but this is straight from Woz, Al. Woz is a nice guy, but after his plane crash / amnesia there is a lot that he doesn't remember. The story came from Al Alcorn who had to fix the unshippable mess that Woz created. I had wondered about the story about a year ago, while Al and I were going through some of the old Atari documentation that he still has, and I made a point of asking him EXACTLY why they couldn't ship what Woz had built. The specific part of the circuit is the on screen score circuit. There is a fairly complicated glob of gates there around a seven segment decoder IC which HP had reduced to a single IC. Woz had used that part in the proto that he built. Atari had to replace it with conventional logic. They knew EXACTLY what he had built, they just couldn't put it into production using the parts they could buy. From aek at spies.com Thu Apr 22 19:34:26 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Weird items on VCM Message-ID: <200404230034.i3N0YQ14016293@spies.com> I can't find any reference to a Dumbkoff 1 orDumbkoff anything else computer related -- Point Plot Intercept would be Whirlwind/SAGE related. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 22 19:38:44 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs In-Reply-To: <200404230002.i3N02ocV004810@spies.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Apr 2004, Al Kossow wrote: > > My recollection may be off, but this is straight from Woz, Al. > > Woz is a nice guy, but after his plane crash / amnesia there is > a lot that he doesn't remember. Good point. > The story came from Al Alcorn who had to fix the unshippable mess that > Woz created. Ok, cool. Thanks for posting that. Good info! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu Apr 22 19:51:19 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Selectric Terminal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It was right after the Model I came out, the expansion chassis (16K!) was announced but not shipping. Audio cassette recording was the only storage. My first "commercial" product was a universal tape duplicator [the only one that could "make backups" of the popular Sargon Chess Game]! Of course it contained code to prevent It duplicating itself!!!! >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell >>> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 7:02 PM >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: Re: Selectric Terminal >>> >>> > >>> > Cira 1976 I developed a custom (wirewrap) interface between a >>> > Selectric 731 and the original TRS-80 model I. >>> >>> Doesn't that pre-date the model 1 ? :-) >>> >>> > >>> > Could only get 9.5 chars per sec out of it though.... >>> >>> Yes, but it sure beat copying down listings by hand. My >>> first printer was the CGP115 -- one of those little >>> 4-ballpoint-pen plotters using the Alps mechanism (the one >>> used in the CBM 1520, one of the Atari printers, etc). >>> It did 12 cps if you were lucky on 4" paper. But I could >>> set it listing out my BASIC or assembler programs and come >>> back when it had finished. It was a lot better than writing >>> them down from the screen! >>> >>> -tony From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 22 19:52:07 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Documation M600 or M1000 for sale? Message-ID: Has anyone got a Documation M600 or M1000 that they'd like to sell? I have a potential buyer. Let me know... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From alhartman at yahoo.com Thu Apr 22 19:57:55 2004 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 8, Issue 42 In-Reply-To: <200404212339.i3LNd8J9081322@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040423005755.2354.qmail@web13424.mail.yahoo.com> I've heard John Oliger's stuff is quite good. A friend had his TS-1000 all tricked out with a John Oliger Disk Interface, Parallel Port, Color Graphics Interface, Joystick Interface and more... It cost more than an IBM XT did at that time. We used to tease him about the "Tail Wagging the dog". But, he was quite happy with it all. When I worked for Zebra Systems, we were going to carry John's stuff. We went out of the Timex Market before that happened though. Al > From: "Glen Goodwin" > Subject: TS2068 disk interface (was Re: cctalk > > Hello Al -- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Al Hartman" > > > What controller are you using on the TS2068? > > > Just curious... > > > - Al > > I use the John Oliger (JLO) interface. It supports > two DSDD 5.25" and/or 3.5" drives in any > combination and has proven to be very reliable. It > also does *not* use the TS2068 cartridge port, so > that port is still available for other circuitry. > > Additionally, the John Oliger Co. is still in > business and still sells and supports this > interface which was originally introduced in 1984. > > Glen __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash From alhartman at yahoo.com Thu Apr 22 20:18:29 2004 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: CUDA Switch In-Reply-To: <200404221459.i3MEwXJ9087309@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040423011829.8365.qmail@web13425.mail.yahoo.com> "CUDA" doesn't mean anything by itself. It's not an Acronym. It is a shortening of "Barracuda". The main chip in the Mac that controls the Clock/Calendar, PRAM, and some of the I/O is called the Barracuda chip. It was a question on my Apple Certified Technician Test. - Al __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Thu Apr 22 20:07:55 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Available: DEC LA120 printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40886C6B.2040508@ntlworld.com> >That's actually a really good point. I wonder if Librarians could be >properly educated about Knoppix (certainly on a library by library basis). > >A decent (though not terribly crafty) analogy is that the computer is now >like a pad of paper and a pen. You come in and use the paper that you >need, then rip those pages out and take them with you. The pad is then >made fresh for use for the next person. The computer is now just >hardware, and soon enough, with cool technology like keychain harddrives >or what not, you'll bring in your own OS and software tools and modify the >hardware to your purposes, leaving it as it was for the next user. > > > The unfortunate thing is that all though everyone on this list would do that, there was always be the 1% or more that would bring in a cd to do damage or try and hack in to a system. Easy internet although they don't have any accessible drives leave usb ports open to anyone their machines and you can install anything you want there. But to be safe all their machines reinstall the operating system every time you logoff , time consuming - but effective . The point being you could still download as much bad stuff from the internet as you can put on a cd anyway but people in libraries etc don't think like that. The pc's I use at work have their floppy drives disabled in bios but still boot from cd and that is with over 2,000 remote sites. I know i'm digressing but some people do worry about stupid things and ignore things that are dangerous. When they could just protect themselves in the first place and not worry. Dan From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Apr 22 20:37:56 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Selectric Terminal In-Reply-To: <026301c42877$8978a160$4601a8c0@ebrius> References: <200404220034.12800.pat@computer-refuge.org> <16519.54740.23000.602996@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <026301c42877$8978a160$4601a8c0@ebrius> Message-ID: <20040423013756.GA22955@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 03:38:53PM +0100, Mark Firestone wrote: > I remember seeing a device that turned a selectric II into a printer... you > glued these little hooks on the top, and then attatched a doo-hickey with > about 92 little plungers, that basically typed the output. Wholey Kludgy > device, batman! I wanted one of those back in 1979... my mother was a professional typist (court transcripts, largely, at the time), so we had several Selectric IIs before we bought a computer (A 32K Commodore PET 2001-32N). I was just in Jr. High and couldn't afford it myself, and could not persuade my mother to spring for it. I ended up getting my first printer, like my first floppy drive, three years later, through my first employer - Bruce and James Publishing, the creators of "WordVision" (distributed by Simon and Schuster). I had to return the printer when the company folded, but I got to keep the floppy drive (and the C-64 it attached to!) -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 23-Apr-2004 01:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -83.4 F (-64.0 C) Windchill -116.8 F (-82.7 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 7.4 kts Grid 086 Barometer 682.3 mb (10540 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From billdeg at degnanco.com Thu Apr 22 20:04:35 2004 From: billdeg at degnanco.com (Degnan Co.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Philadelphia Area Vintage parts Message-ID: I am liquidating a shelf full of early 80's -era microcomputer parts and not fully functioning computers. I have posted a web page containing a complete list. http://degnanco.net/vintage/ If you are in the Philadelphia area and want some or all will sell or trade for low price. -- E N D -- From sastevens at earthlink.net Thu Apr 22 20:57:15 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Selectric Terminal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040422205715.7640b1df.sastevens@earthlink.net> My first diskette of software for the IBM PC was a bootable diskette my father brought home from work. He was an IBM employee for 27 years and bought one of the very first IBM PCs on the employee purchase plan. It had a 'disk copy' program on it, 'IBM Internal Use Only' that was known as a 'pizza copier' as the joke was that it would 'copy any diskette perfectly, even if the diskette was a pizza. Obviously it wasn't that powerful and I am sure most 'modern' copy protection schemes (i.e. schemes from the PC-DOS 2.0 era or newer) would defeat it. I'm not sure it even supported Double Sided Diskettes, it was that old. He gave me his TRS-80 Model 1 when he got that PC. On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:51:19 -0400 "David V. Corbin" wrote: > It was right after the Model I came out, the expansion chassis (16K!) was > announced but not shipping. Audio cassette recording was the only storage. > > My first "commercial" product was a universal tape duplicator [the only one > that could "make backups" of the popular Sargon Chess Game]! Of course it > contained code to prevent > It duplicating itself!!!! > > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell > >>> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 7:02 PM > >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >>> Subject: Re: Selectric Terminal > >>> > >>> > > >>> > Cira 1976 I developed a custom (wirewrap) interface between a > >>> > Selectric 731 and the original TRS-80 model I. > >>> > >>> Doesn't that pre-date the model 1 ? :-) > >>> > >>> > > >>> > Could only get 9.5 chars per sec out of it though.... > >>> > >>> Yes, but it sure beat copying down listings by hand. My > >>> first printer was the CGP115 -- one of those little > >>> 4-ballpoint-pen plotters using the Alps mechanism (the one > >>> used in the CBM 1520, one of the Atari printers, etc). > >>> It did 12 cps if you were lucky on 4" paper. But I could > >>> set it listing out my BASIC or assembler programs and come > >>> back when it had finished. It was a lot better than writing > >>> them down from the screen! > >>> > >>> -tony > From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Apr 22 21:48:35 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: SAVED (From alt.sys.pdp11 -- PDP-11's in SoCal need rescue from scrapper!) In-Reply-To: <20040420232517.2577.qmail@web80510.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi all, The stuff mentioned in the Jeff's message on alt.sys.pdp11, and forwarded to the list by both Frank Arnold and Bill Maddox: > Hi, I frequent the University of California - Santa > Barbara surplus > store and noticed they have the following PDP stuff > that is heading > for the scrap heap this week unless someone comes and > buys it (and > considering that the alternative is scrap prices, > it'll probably go > cheap): > > (from memory, so it's probably 85% accurate): > > - 4 waist-high 19" racks containing the PDP stuff. > - 2 each PDP-11/23 rackmounted > - 2 each PDP-11/73 rackmounted > - at least 4 RL02 drives > - a couple or more RC25 (I think) cartridge drives > - other random equipment that I can't identify > - 2 Decwriter line printers/consoles > - A big push cart full of (looks like unused) RL02 > packs and RC25 > carts. > - RSX manuals and a bunch of other documents > > All this stuff came from an installation that was > finally turned off, so it looks complete. has been, um, saved. Although it was farther away than I thought, I was in the area, so went ahead and contacted Jeff at UCSB, and we dealt with it today. Since I am not going to physically move the machines back to Holland, they will become available at some later date. If you really want a working, racked PDP-11/(23,73) with RL02 drive, and are either in the Los Angeles area, or willing to either drive a bit or have it shipped, drop me a message! (ohyeah, the same goes for the two DECwriter III (LA120)'s that came with the stuff, as I will keep only one. Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From sastevens at earthlink.net Thu Apr 22 21:56:48 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040422215648.04c7c7bc.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:14:28 +0100 (BST) ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > Wozniak was at HP - IIRC he tried to get HP interested in the home > > computer market - they just laughed and told him to get back to work... > > I've seen this comment before, and it's rather unfair on HP. > > At the time, HP were known for making some of _the best_ measuring > instruments. They were not really interested in the mass market. Their > aim was to sell the best, albeit at a high price. > > They'd been making desktop computers that ran BASIC for > about 5 years when the Apple ][ came out. Having used the HP's of that > period and the Apple ][, I am convinced that the HP was the better > design, better built, although it probably cost 10 times as much. > The Apple 1 is likely what HP turned down. The Apple 2 came later. The Apple 1 was a plain single-board computer. It shipped with no keyboard, no power transformer as a bare circuit board. It shipped this way because Apple deemed it too expensive to ship a heavy power transformer, and expected their typical customer to be able to source their own. It had the linear regulator and everything else for the power supply on the main board. The keyboard interface provided was a bare 'strobed parallel ASCII' keyboard input. There was a 'scratchpad' area on the board to add an inverter or needed logic if your keyboard had the wrong logic polarity. The Apple 1 was NOT the 'hacker proof' design that Jobs boasted about with the Macintosh (words which made me boycott the Mac entirely for over a decade after hearing Jobs speak them at a press event). Apple had already become a 'different company' by the Mac Launch. The Apple 1 was something totally different, and it was nothing that Hewlett-Packard could have sold. It was actually the sort of 'cool stuff' that many of us on this list would have liked. I would have bought one if I could have afforded it at the time. From sastevens at earthlink.net Thu Apr 22 22:00:43 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040422220043.63c65a72.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:21:16 -0700 (PDT) Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 22 Apr 2004, chris wrote: > > > >Jobs met Wozniak when he was still in high school (introduced to each > > >other by Bill Fernandez). Wasn't it Jobs who got the job for Woz at > > >Atari? > > > > I wasn't sure when they met, but I did seem to recall that Jobs did get > > Woz the Atari job. Wasn't that where Jobs was working, and they wanted to > > design a handheld game, and Jobs got Woz to do it, and he did it so well, > > Atari couldn't figure out exactly how he did it. > > Yes. The story goes that Jobs was given the job to do a Breakout game. > He "outsourced" it to Woz. Jobs got $5K for the job and gave Woz only > $350. Woz recounts the story on his website here: > > http://www.woz.org/letters/general/91.html > > As far as the design, Woz optimized it to such an extent (not letting any > gate on any TTL go unused) that the Atari engineers could not follow the > logic or the physical layout of the wirewrap...something like that. I > asked Woz about it last year and he sent me a reply that was something to > that effect. > Tightly optimized TTL designs are a lost art. I remember how offended I was when a RAM Tester design I came out with had a timing problem and my boss insisted that I put a 'glitch catcher' in (a cap to eliminate a logic 'glitch') rather than adding one more cascade on the clock that would have let me 'deglitch' it syncronously and correctly. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Apr 22 22:34:52 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Available: DEC LA120 printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200404230336.XAA05452@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > A decent (though not terribly crafty) analogy is that the computer is > now like a pad of paper and a pen. You come in and use the paper > that you need, then rip those pages out and take them with you. The > pad is then made fresh for use for the next person. This would be good, if it were the way it worked. Places that do that (start clean for each new user) are notable by their rarity - and how many of them do you think went to the trouble of making sure their motherboards either didn't have flashable BIOS or had a hardware disable on it so that you can't reflash them without opening the case? I'd guess it didn't even cocur to most of them. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From sastevens at earthlink.net Thu Apr 22 22:54:54 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Available: DEC LA120 printer In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040422165953.04b4aec0@mail.30below.com> References: <20040422205109.GO19595@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <5.1.0.14.2.20040422165953.04b4aec0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <20040422225454.0a2178be.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:05:51 -0400 Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that William Donzelli may have mentioned these words: > > > Why? Just because some supervisor says to do something is no reason > > > to do something if it's senseless. > > > >It depends on how much you like your paycheck. > > Unforch, that is the way it goes sometimes... > > > > taxpayer, you certainly should be able to take a set of Linux or > > > FreeBSD CD-ROMs with you to a public library and use them to "repair" > > > at least one of their computer systems. Doing so may certainly freak > > > a pretentious librarian out, who claims to know something about > > > computers and doesn't, but that's not something that you need concern > > > yourself with. > > > >Not with any of the librarians I know. They would not freak out - stay > >cool and collected - as they telephone the police... > > Then you could make 'em look *real* foolish - download a Linux distro > called "Knoppix" -> it boots & runs off of CD. Once you're done, reboot & > yank the disk, it's back to winblows... > I don't know if I would trust a library computer system that was open to patron use but so insecured that it allowed a bootable CD-ROM to work. With spam problems being the way they are, I'd hope any publicly accessable, taxpayer funded computer system would be more secured than that. I wouldn't mind a bit if said computer system was running NetBSD or even, perhaps, Linux. I think I'd like it better than a Microsoft (spelled correctly) Operating System. But that's really beside the point, as any of the above can be properly secured for use in a library. As to email clients to use: this is the 21st century, and while it's fine for people to enjoy classic computers, and immerse themselves in them to whatever degree they like (I personally enjoy using my SparcStation IPX with a real VT-220 as the text console from time to time), I couldn't get by on this list without an email client that properly threads and nests the messages, like Sylpheed, which I run on a Slackware system. I suppose it could display messages with a monospaced font, though I haven't looked for that feature. The great-great-grandparent post which flamed a sig did seem out of order and even rude, at least to me. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 22 23:58:27 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Available: DEC LA120 printer In-Reply-To: <200404230336.XAA05452@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Apr 2004, der Mouse wrote: > > A decent (though not terribly crafty) analogy is that the computer is > > now like a pad of paper and a pen. You come in and use the paper > > that you need, then rip those pages out and take them with you. The > > pad is then made fresh for use for the next person. > > This would be good, if it were the way it worked. > > Places that do that (start clean for each new user) are notable by > their rarity - and how many of them do you think went to the trouble of > making sure their motherboards either didn't have flashable BIOS or had > a hardware disable on it so that you can't reflash them without opening > the case? I'd guess it didn't even cocur to most of them. My idea was more akin to the hardware not having any OS to begin with. It would be a diskless workstation basically, with your CD or keychain USB hard drive supplying the OS and all your apps. You plug it in and boot; your environment comes up, you do your business, then you unplug and move on. Hardware is cheap, almost worthless these days. The software/data is everything. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From tomj at wps.com Fri Apr 23 00:56:25 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Selectric Terminal In-Reply-To: <20040422112047.E68758@newshell.lmi.net> References: <20040422112047.E68758@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Apr 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > I always enjoyed the add-on actuators - a box full of solenoids that sat > on the keyboard pressing keys (Rochester Dynatyper and KGS-80) "Typing robots"! I've looked for one for years... I have an early 1950's Victor electric (mechanical) calculator with a typing robot attached, eg. 12 solenoids to push the keys (100V about 200 mA!). It was built by the Los Alamos Scientific Lab. I don't think it was used for calculating per se, but as a data logger/printer. It's now driven by a PIC, and part of my Story Teller system. Or was, until the calculator Caught Fire. I'll find another calculator... From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Thu Apr 22 17:10:45 2004 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Apr 22, 2004 06:53:21 PM Message-ID: <200404222210.i3MMAjSZ020293@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> "Witchy" says: > >And it's all in 'The Ultimate History of Video Games' by Steve Kent, which >is the full history of Atari (and subsidiaries), Sega, Nintendo, Coleco and >many others. Excellent read full of interviews with the key players of the >day. > >Well worth getting if you're into that sort of history like I am. > >Cheers > > Except for the fact that it's chock full of errors. If you read it with a grain of salt, yes, it's very entertaining and still has a lot of nice info. It has a good story like presentation as opposed to a more "here's the facts approach" like Leonard Herman's Phoenix. I talked to Steve Kent about corrections, updates, etc. He mentioned the publisher owns the rights now, and he has no way to update it. Marty From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Thu Apr 22 17:19:05 2004 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs In-Reply-To: <200404221727.i3MHRR2o000339@spies.com> from "Al Kossow" at Apr 22, 2004 10:27:27 AM Message-ID: <200404222219.i3MMJ5VI027645@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> > >Woz never worked for Atari. > >He built the first prototype for the game that became Breakout. At the >time, Bushnell would pay a bonus based on how few chips you could use >for building a game. Woz used HP custom ICs, which were unavalable to >the outside world to do it, so it had to be redesigned to take them >out to get the game into production. > >Jobs was the Atari tech on the project (and was the one that got the >bonus, which he never told Woz about..) > >This info was told to me by the VP of Engineering of Atari at the >time this all happened. > > That's correct, Woz never worked for Atari - though he would hang out in coin-op a lot at night with Jobs. I wrote an article about the Apple/Atari connection 3 years ago that covers this topic as well as Jobs' overall "career" there: http://www.classicgaming.com/features/articles/atariapple/ Marty From design3d at fuse.net Thu Apr 22 21:53:13 2004 From: design3d at fuse.net (Don) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Otrona Attache Boot Disks Message-ID: <000801c428de$1ea6b8b0$3002a8c0@intelceleron> Hello, I have an Otrona with 5 1/4" disk drives. Problem is that I don't have the boot disks for the machine. I wondered if you send me a copy if you still have them. What would you charge for them? I would appreciate any help you could provide. Thank you, Don Radford, Cincinnati, Ohio From GOOI at oce.nl Fri Apr 23 02:55:26 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Blinkenlights (not only for PDP-11) -- the sequel Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102B57@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Hello all! I have been busy interfacing the "real console" to SIMH last week. During last week Vince has drawn some Printed Circuit Boards (PCBs). Vince and I had frequent e-mail contact working through the designs. Basically, this e-mail is an inquiry to which extend people would like to embark on this project. So, let me know if you would like to participate in this project!! But before you put the $$ on the table I will try to explain in more detail what the status of my project is and what use it can have ... In this e-mail I address the following topics: 1. Some ideas where this project can be used. 2. A small description of the hardware. 3. An introduction to the firmware. 4. The interfacing to SIMH, state of affairs. 5. An estimate on the building costs. 6. What the project participants can expect. Allthough my primary design goal was a "blinkenlight" console based on the PDP-11 and a PC running SIMH, the hardware is multi-functional with the large amount of digital inputs and outputs. You can think of several other applications to control with this harware, for example a robot arm with some stepper motors ... just use your imagination! During this weekend I will update my website with a few .mpg files to show you a console in operation with SIMH, and a few samples of the console running in stand-alone mode. So, check next Monday the site http://www.pdp-11.nl/ and click on the link "homebrew PDP-11" in the left pane. The latest software version will also be downloadable. ** 1 ** Ideas for use. First, let me say that I do NOT support the idea of trashing a nicely working real PDP-11 computer to get a console! If you have a real PDP-11 console, this project will allow you to use the computer that runs SIMH (PC) to be controlled with the PDP-11 console as the real thing! This hardware is an other option for people that do not have a real PDP-11 with blinkenlight console or do not have the space for such a big (UNIBUS) machine. A third option for usage of this hardware is for people that *have* a real PDP-11, but running that system is noticed on the electrical bill! One could build a PC inside the real PDP-11, and disconnect the flat cables from the real console and connect them to this hardware. Running the PC/SIMH with the real console looks like the REAL THING but without the big energy consumption. Of course, the real disks and other peripherals are all "inside" the PC ... This setup might be a solution for a museum. The system is exhibited in a running state, and the changes made can simply be reverted to the original state. The fourth usage is for other computers that have a blinkenlight console, and are emulated by SIMH. The PDP-11 file in SIMH shows how to interface your favorite machine. You can run your favorite vintage computer in SIMH with that sexy switches and light console! ** 2 ** The hardware. We have two different design approaches. The first is called the "combi-board". The combi-board is a single PCB which contains the CPU etc. and *eight* 8-bit output ports and *six* 8-bit input ports. This in/out configuration can support the largest PDP-11 console, viz. PDP-11/70 full console! The second design consists of *two* PCBs, one is called the Core Board, the other the I/O Board. The Core board holds the CPU, etc. and the I/O Board offers also 8 8-bit output and 6 8-bit input. The combi-board is a little cheaper, but the two-PCB design offers expandability if you need more outputs/inputs. (who said this hardware design is for console interfacing only ?!) The design efforts of Vince and I are focussed on the 2 PCB version. Note. If you checked my website and had a look at the schematic diagrams, I must tell you that there are a few minor changes. For example, the expensive Dallas RS-232 converter chip is replaced by the cheaper MAXIM MAX232A chip. Further the 8kbytes firmware EPROM 2764 was full up till the last 500 bytes, so there was little room for any future development. The address decoder LS138 is substituted by one 74LS139 thus enabling the change from the 2764 to one 27128 16 kbytes EPROM. That also eliminates the need for an optional 2nd 2764 EPROM socket, which saves space on the PCB. ** 3 ** The firmware. The firmware contains in approx. 8 kbytes a simple debugging monitor and the console software. Which software (monitor or console) starts is determined by a push-button at reset. Both talk to a terminal via the RS-232 port at 9600 Bd. In the console mode, the RS-232 connects to the interface software added to SIMH to control the console from SIMH. It is completely free to which input port and bit(s) you connect the switches and the (momentary) toggles. Via the firmware you 'learn' the console where the switches/toggles are connected. The firmware handles the appropriate way of processing toggles and debouncing. ** 4 ** Interfacing to SIMH. I added two extra files (one .c and .h), and made simple changes and additions to the files scp.c and pdp11_cpu.c of the SIMH software. Current state of affairs: ADDRESS and DATA LEDs are functional, also the USER, VIRTUAL, CONS, and RUN LEDs. I have not yet spend time to find a way to implement the control from SIMH for the BUS & PROC LED. The toggles LOAD ADRS, EXAM, CONT, START, and DEP work as you would expect on a real PDP-11/40 (aka PDP-11/35 OEM version). The ENAB/HALT switch is operational too, HALTs the emulated software when it runs, and changes CONT and START to STEP and RESET while in the halted state, the switch in the position HALT. While STEPping the software the ADDRESS & DATA LEDs are correctly updated after every single instruction execution. ** 5 ** The costs of the project. First, I need to know how many people would like to participate in this project. The more people join, the cheaper the production costs of professionally made PCBs become. The (single) combi-board will be somewhere around $40 to $50, and the two PCB design (Core and I/O) will be slightly more expensive, the 2 boards will cost approx $10 more than the combi-board. This solution provides expandability for hobbyists, or use in other projects. The required components to populate the PCB(s) can be seen in the diagrams on my website. You can make an approximate calculation what these components cost. Probably prices are lower in the USA compared to The Netherlands where I live ... ** 6 ** What will you get if you join the project? I will write a clear, well documented manual that describes the PCBs, the protocol, and a step-by-step DIY building the PCB(s) with clear *full color* pictures. The firmware and the modified SIMH files can be downloaded from my website. However, I will offer a pre-programmed 27128 for just the cost of the IC (here in The Netherlands). You can also snail-mail me an *empty* 27128, and I will program that one for you, but I doubt if that option would be cheaper ... REMARK. If you would like to participate in this project, but are not sure to successfully solder the PCB(s), I will offer a (payed) service that delivers a working/tested PCB (or two PCBs). The modifications required in SIMH are done for version 3.2.0. The first work was done on version 2.4.0, and I found a few changes were needed, as scp.c was changed. However, when a new version of SIMH is available I will put the required changes on my website within, say two weeks. So, unless SIMH changes drastically, continuity will be guaranteed on short notice, else I will need a little more time! If you join the project for the hardware, but do not intend to use it for a console, but in some other project, you can ask me questions too. I will give answers to the best I can as long as they involve the design, or the software. I have good knowledge of MC6802 assembly programming. Please feel free to write an e-mail to me if you have any questions! I will try to answer all questions in private e-mail, next week. If the question is general I will post a follow-up in this thread. regards, - Henk, PA8PDP. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Apr 23 03:30:02 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs In-Reply-To: <200404222210.i3MMAjSZ020293@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Martin > Scott Goldberg > Sent: 22 April 2004 23:11 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Time article about Jobs > > Except for the fact that it's chock full of errors. If you > read it with a grain of salt, yes, it's very entertaining and > still has a lot of nice info. It has a good story like > presentation as opposed to a more "here's the facts approach" > like Leonard Herman's Phoenix. I talked to Steve Kent about > corrections, updates, etc. He mentioned the publisher owns > the rights now, and he has no way to update it. That's weird, 'cos I spoke to Al Alcorn about it and he told me this: "The Steve Kent book is the most accurate source of history that I know of. He was tireless in getting his facts straight." Not that tireless then? Cheers w From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Apr 23 05:50:09 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1082717408.21111.3.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-04-22 at 23:09, Witchy wrote: > if anyone really cares I'll soon be based in the south of england Middle of England, boyo - you just live too far north at the moment! :-P From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Apr 23 06:56:14 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs In-Reply-To: <1082717408.21111.3.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules Richardson > Sent: 23 April 2004 11:50 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: RE: Time article about Jobs > > On Thu, 2004-04-22 at 23:09, Witchy wrote: > > if anyone really cares I'll soon be based in the south of england > > Middle of England, boyo - you just live too far north at the > moment! :-P Meh, it must be a long way south if it takes me nearly 5 hours in the car to get there :) In other news, did you remember to rescue the keyboard from the CPT 8215? I forgot to remind you last week....not that it helps me of course, I'm still missing OS disks with no real hope of ever finding any.....oh, and I'll hopefully be getting some caps to replace the ones in GIGIs PSU. Cheers w From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Apr 23 08:48:25 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Nearly on topic-ish. Digital HiNote VP laptop Message-ID: Folks, Discovered I had said old machine in storage the other day and I thought it'd make a neat little webserver for when I'm away from home working and will have nothing better to do than PHP hacking. First time I powered up it sprang to life but locked up because the CMOS battery (non-standard dammit) is obviously flat. Subsequent powerups with or without battery installed (you can replace the floppy drive with a dedicated AC input) result in a beep and pretty much nothing else. Anyone come across these wee beasties before? Aside from when they were new, obviously :o) cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From mtapley at swri.edu Fri Apr 23 09:12:49 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Portable environment (was: Re: Available: DEC LA120 printer) Message-ID: At 19:57 -0500 4/22/04, Sellam wrote: > The computer is now just >hardware, and soon enough, with cool technology like keychain harddrives >or what not, you'll bring in your own OS and software tools and modify the >hardware to your purposes, leaving it as it was for the next user. I think the NeXT Optical drives were intended to provide a functionality like this. Carry your own OD media around, stuff it into the NeXT you sit down at, and your entire (256Mbyte) environment is right there with you. (I'm not sure I have a reference to support this, though. Maybe NeXT sales materials? Anyone else?) Performance didn't live up to the rapidly moving HD performance of the day, and the idea got overtaken by network via ethernet. Sit down, telnet into your machine back home. That makes me think that the idea will only work where 1) the portable medium has pretty good performance (speed-wise) relative to current primary mass storage, and 2) The OS/environment startup process is relatively short (say, maybe, < 20 seconds?) -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From mtapley at swri.edu Fri Apr 23 09:13:50 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 8, Issue 45 In-Reply-To: <200404230057.i3N0vZJ2092479@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200404230057.i3N0vZJ2092479@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: At 19:57 -0500 4/22/04, Dave Dunfield wrote: >I happen to have an August 1983 BYTE magazine in front of me, which >has an artical entitled "Comparing C Compilers for CP/M-86" in which >they use the Sieve as one of their main benchmarks. ... Dave, thanks very much for the kind offer! I was mainly after two aspects of the original article(s). 1) The listing of the program, in many different languages (I seem to recall Forth, Basic, C, possibly others) and 2) The extremely wide range of performances turned in by different computer/language combinations, ranging from TRS-80 basic up to (IIRC) Cray or something on that order. So the C benchmarks, while interesting, aren't really what I'm after. The whole discussion came up because I was trying to explain to the kids what an "algorithm" is. -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From mtapley at swri.edu Fri Apr 23 09:17:52 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Byte Sieve of Eratosthenes Results? Message-ID: At 19:57 -0500 4/22/04, Dave Dunfield wrote: >I happen to have an August 1983 BYTE magazine in front of me, which >has an artical entitled "Comparing C Compilers for CP/M-86" in which >they use the Sieve as one of their main benchmarks. ... Dave, thanks very much for the kind offer! I was mainly after two aspects of the original article(s). 1) The listing of the program, in many different languages (I seem to recall Forth, Basic, C, possibly others) and 2) The extremely wide range of performances turned in by different computer/language combinations, ranging from TRS-80 basic up to (IIRC) Cray or something on that order. So the C benchmarks, while interesting, aren't really what I'm after. The whole discussion came up because I was trying to explain to the kids what an "algorithm" is. -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From cb at mythtech.net Fri Apr 23 09:54:14 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: CUDA Switch Message-ID: >"CUDA" doesn't mean anything by itself. It's not an >Acronym. > >It is a shortening of "Barracuda". > >The main chip in the Mac that controls the >Clock/Calendar, PRAM, and some of the I/O is called >the Barracuda chip. > >It was a question on my Apple Certified Technician >Test. Wow... ok. I guess that is one of those things they throw in to make sure you purchased their training guide. I've NEVER seen that info ANYWHERE before. I 100% believe it, but I suspect the only place that tidbit is available would be in the tech training. Thanks for solving that mystery for me. -chris From bfoley at dcs.warwick.ac.uk Fri Apr 23 09:54:44 2004 From: bfoley at dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Brian Foley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Portable environment (was: Re: Available: DEC LA120 printer) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <284EA378-9536-11D8-A68D-000393B6E12E@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> On 23 Apr 2004, at 15:12, Mark Tapley wrote: > At 19:57 -0500 4/22/04, Sellam wrote: >> The computer is now just >> hardware, and soon enough, with cool technology like keychain >> harddrives >> or what not, you'll bring in your own OS and software tools and >> modify the >> hardware to your purposes, leaving it as it was for the next user. > > I think the NeXT Optical drives were intended to provide a > functionality like this. Carry your own OD media around, stuff it into > the NeXT you sit down at, and your entire (256Mbyte) environment is > right there with you. (I'm not sure I have a reference to support > this, though. Maybe NeXT sales materials? Anyone else?) > > Performance didn't live up to the rapidly moving HD performance of the > day, and the idea got overtaken by network via ethernet. Sit down, > telnet into your machine back home. A recent variation on this theme is the 'Home on iPod' feature that Apple were rumoured to add to MacOS X. See http://www.ipodhead.com/archive/000022.php for details and http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2002/02/08/netinfo.html for a description of how to do a cut down version of it yourself. Another possibility which is closer to the Optical drives is the ability of any Mac with firewire to boot off a firewire disc (including the iPod). Cheers, Brian. -- Computer programmer: n. Red-eyed mumbling mammal capable of conversing with inanimate objects. From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Fri Apr 23 09:57:20 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040423145720.40011.qmail@web12404.mail.yahoo.com> --- Witchy wrote: > That's weird, 'cos I spoke to Al Alcorn about it and > he told me this: > > "The Steve Kent book is the most accurate source of > history that I know of. > He was tireless in getting his facts straight." > > Not that tireless then? > I don't think there will ever be a book written where everyone will agree that they got the facts straight, in fact I believe there will never be a book written where Woz and Jobs will agree with, let alone everyone else involved in Apple's history. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Apr 23 10:27:34 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:04 2005 Subject: Blinkenlights (not only for PDP-11) -- the sequel References: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102B57@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Message-ID: <408935E6.2070605@jetnet.ab.ca> Gooijen H wrote: > Hello all! > > I have been busy interfacing the "real console" to SIMH last week. > During last week Vince has drawn some Printed Circuit Boards (PCBs). > Vince and I had frequent e-mail contact working through the designs. > Basically, this e-mail is an inquiry to which extend people would > like to embark on this project. > How about going a step further, burning SIMH on a low cost, single board computer. Other than real I/O? it would be nice to have a dedicated system for that- 8 meg ram,small HD,floppy,{real cpu},serial i/o and real-time ish os, and several switches to run different CPU emulations. Ben. From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Apr 23 10:46:17 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Portable environment (was: Re: Available: DEC LA120 printer) References: <284EA378-9536-11D8-A68D-000393B6E12E@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> Message-ID: <16521.14921.521000.617175@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Brian" == Brian Foley writes: Brian> A recent variation on this theme is the 'Home on iPod' feature Brian> that Apple were rumoured to add to MacOS X. It's there. An iPod is a firewire disk, and yes, you can have your home directory there. I haven't tried it, but I saw the doc. It was either in the Apple docs, or in the "Mac OS X -- the missing manual" book (good book!). paul From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Fri Apr 23 13:29:02 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Nearly on topic-ish. Digital HiNote VP laptop In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040423192153.04338008@pop.freeserve.net> At 14:48 23/04/2004 +0100, Witchy wrote: >Folks, > >Discovered I had said old machine in storage the other day and I thought >it'd make a neat little webserver for when I'm away from home working and >will have nothing better to do than PHP hacking. > >First time I powered up it sprang to life but locked up because the CMOS >battery (non-standard dammit) is obviously flat. Subsequent powerups with or >without battery installed (you can replace the floppy drive with a dedicated >AC input) result in a beep and pretty much nothing else. > >Anyone come across these wee beasties before? Aside from when they were new, >obviously :o) > >cheers I've got one here. HiNote VP, Model TS30G. Pentium 133 ISTR. Mine works fine with battery removed, just running off the external ac adapter. I have had them lock up when the save-to-disc on powerdown gets mangled, but removing all forms of power (taking battery out and disconnecting ac adapter) generally sorts that, so I presume it's not your problem. I've also seen it power up with the LCD backlight off, or it switched to external-monitor mode (not sure which) so pressing Fn & various display-type options on the number keys can get it back. Somewhere I've got a spare docking station for one of these too, if it's of any use to you? Brings out all the normal PC-style ports into a useable format, and has ethernet (10baseT and 10base2) built in. regards Rob. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 23 14:10:44 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Selectric Terminal In-Reply-To: from "Tom Jennings" at Apr 22, 4 10:56:25 pm Message-ID: > > I have an early 1950's Victor electric (mechanical) calculator > with a typing robot attached, eg. 12 solenoids to push the keys > (100V about 200 mA!). It was built by the Los Alamos Scientific > Lab. I don't think it was used for calculating per se, but as > a data logger/printer. I haev one of those. It came off a data logging system, I forget what the system was used for, but it was some custom thing, either electron microscope or crystallography related. I also got the paper tape punch and reader (mechanically the same as the units from a Friden Flexowriter, but mounted on rack panels and each has its own motor on the back), and the control sequencer (all discrete transsitors, patchboard 'programmable', with DM160 indicator valves to show the current state). I am pretty sure (based on the components used) that my units were European in origin. Perhaps the printer was actually a standard unit. It's a Victor Comptometer calculator with solenoids fitted over the keys and a metal cover fitted over the solenoids -- there are no keys left for the user to press. The solenoids are not user-removable, although the whole assembly comes off fairly easily with a screwdriver. Anyway, I thought it was quite an interesting find. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 23 14:12:04 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs In-Reply-To: <1082717408.21111.3.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Apr 23, 4 10:50:09 am Message-ID: > > On Thu, 2004-04-22 at 23:09, Witchy wrote: > > if anyone really cares I'll soon be based in the south of england Near enough to London that I'll be able to help fix your stuff face-to-face? -tony From allain at panix.com Fri Apr 23 14:23:59 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Nearly on topic-ish. Digital HiNote VP laptop References: Message-ID: <007301c42968$87e22960$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > because the CMOS battery (non-standard dammit) All I can say is that replacing one battery with one of another shape (both are two leads) is one of the easiest retrogrades somebody could do. If you can't find the specs of the old battery then post a picture... Now, try getting 4 wires of an unknown PSU matched up... John A. From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Apr 23 14:37:32 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Portable environment (was: Re: Available: DEC LA120 printer) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040423123431.P11688@newshell.lmi.net> > At 19:57 -0500 4/22/04, Sellam wrote: > The computer is now just > hardware, and soon enough, with cool technology like keychain harddrives > or what not, you'll bring in your own OS and software tools and modify the > hardware to your purposes, leaving it as it was for the next user. EXACTLY the way that it was ~25 years ago, when machines had FLOPPY drives, but NO hard drives. The only difference is that now we are talking about 100M to 100G of removable storage, instead of 100K. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From wacarder at usit.net Fri Apr 23 14:49:31 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: VT52 question Message-ID: <001201c4296c$18f7b430$a0340f14@mcothran1> Does anyone have any experience reviving dead VT52 DecScopes? I'm getting a couple in unknown condition. One "lights up" and the other one doesn't. I haven't seen them yet. I've found good diagnostic info on vt100.net I'll see what happens when I put them in offline mode and run some tests. Ashley From wacarder at usit.net Fri Apr 23 14:59:23 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: VT52 question References: <001201c4296c$18f7b430$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <001601c4296d$799e7b60$a0340f14@mcothran1> I have also just located the 144 page VT52 maintenance manual. - Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Carder" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 3:49 PM Subject: VT52 question Does anyone have any experience reviving dead VT52 DecScopes? I'm getting a couple in unknown condition. One "lights up" and the other one doesn't. I haven't seen them yet. I've found good diagnostic info on vt100.net I'll see what happens when I put them in offline mode and run some tests. Ashley From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 23 15:56:46 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: VT52 question In-Reply-To: <001201c4296c$18f7b430$a0340f14@mcothran1> from "Ashley Carder" at Apr 23, 4 03:49:31 pm Message-ID: > > Does anyone have any experience reviving dead VT52 DecScopes? > I'm getting a couple in unknown condition. One "lights up" and the = > other one doesn't. >From what I remmeebr the VT52 logic is somewhat strange -- it's essentially a simple special-purpose processor with a simple data path and microcode in a set of PROMs to control it all. The PSU and monitor circuitry is more conventional. I have the prints (are they on bitsavers too?). I would start by checking the PSU rails, then if they're OK, look for sync and video outputs from the logic. That will at least tell you whether you have a logic or monitor problem. -tony From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 23 16:15:24 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Portable environment (was: Re: Available: DEC LA120 printer) In-Reply-To: <20040423123431.P11688@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Apr 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > > At 19:57 -0500 4/22/04, Sellam wrote: > > The computer is now just > > hardware, and soon enough, with cool technology like keychain harddrives > > or what not, you'll bring in your own OS and software tools and modify the > > hardware to your purposes, leaving it as it was for the next user. > > EXACTLY the way that it was ~25 years ago, > when machines had FLOPPY drives, > but NO hard drives. Indeed. Sigh. Another case of computer ideas coming full circle and being passed off as "new". I must admit that I'd even forgotten that this is how it used to be . -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Apr 23 16:26:43 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Portable environment (was: Re: Available: DEC LA120 printer) References: Message-ID: <40898A13.6090607@jetnet.ab.ca> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Indeed. Sigh. Another case of computer ideas coming full circle and > being passed off as "new". I must admit that I'd even forgotten that this > is how it used to be . > But with a floppy ( 8 inch ) { providing it worked right } you could do real work on the computer, in 32k+ of memory. How many gig are needed for today's all singing and dancing ( but no work ) computers. Ben. PS. The 8 inch drive had sticky heads in seeking tracks. Hit the drive to get it to work but not too hard as that would reset the computer because of a lose card. Ben. From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 23 16:31:43 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Computer History book in Arabic Message-ID: I just learned that a new book on computer and internet history has been published that is written in Arabic. The author, Richard Hayek (based in Lebanon), is an IT journalist for an Abu Dhabi based newspaper. It is the first book (that is known) written in Arabic on the topic. I'm in contact with the author and am in the process of ordering several copies. As far as I know, the only way to get the book here in the States (or anywhere outside the Middle East) is by ordering it through him. If anyone else is by chance interested in a copy then let me know and I'll order you a copy as well. They are US$8.25 each plus postage. This of course has personal interest for me but I think it also indicates how that part of the world is finally joining the computer revolution. Computer and Internet penetration has taken a long time for most Middle East nations, but some have adapted faster than others. Lebanon, for instance, has some of the highest penetration of the Internet, with Internet cages everywhere. I would imagine other more affluent nations such as the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain probably have a higher per capita penetration of personal computers but I don't know what the controls over the Internet are. Many Middle East nations have internet access of some kind though it is heavily censored usually. Anyway, kinda neat. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 23 16:58:03 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Computer History book in Arabic In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Apr 23, 2004 02:31:43 PM Message-ID: <200404232158.i3NLw3WO030029@onyx.spiritone.com> > Internet cages everywhere. I would imagine other more affluent nations > such as the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain probably have a higher per > capita penetration of personal computers but I don't know what the > controls over the Internet are. Many Middle East nations have internet > access of some kind though it is heavily censored usually. Back in the late 80's Bahrain had at least a couple of interesting Computer Stores (totally PC clone oriented). Though you don't want to know how much a copy of a US computer magazine cost! I don't remember seeing anything in the UAE at that time though. Zane From vax3900 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 23 23:16:12 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: HP 64000 with 80186 emulator? Message-ID: <20040424041612.84855.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> Hi guys, Does HP 64000 have a build in HD? If I don't have the floppy disks, can I boot it? Also, where can I find the softwhere for the 80186 emulator that comes with it? Thanks. It is bulky. vax, 3900 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash From bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com Sat Apr 24 00:05:37 2004 From: bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: HP 64000 with 80186 emulator? In-Reply-To: <20040424041612.84855.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040424041612.84855.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4089F5A1.3020200@yahoo.com> There was a prototype of the 64000 with a 5MB hard drive, but I don't know if it was ever produced. The original 64000 benchtops had a tape drive (DC100? DC300? Can't remember, IIRC it was the same drive used in the 26xx terminals, but a different data format on the tape, of course :-) and a later option had two 5.25 floppy drives in place of the tape drive. The whole idea was to put several 64000s on one "large" disk drive using the HP-IB port on the back. The resulting arrangement was called a "cluster" in the HP manuals. You could also hook up a standard HP-IB printer to the cluster... I seem to remember some mumbo-jumbo where the disc had to be HP-IB ID 0 and the printer ID 1, but that may have just been the early devices. We used 7920s (50MB) and 7925s (125MB) until the winchester types were available (7914, etc.) The 64000s would boot from the common disk. You might be able to locate some of those around... 7906 with the HP-IB option should also work, but you would probably have better luck locating a CS-80 drive like a 7912/7914/etc. If it has floppies (like the "portable" version) you can boot it from floppy, if you have them... The ones for the portable unit should boot in a crock. (You could also put the "portable" (dragable?) unit on a benchtop cluster and it would boot from the cluster if there wasn't a boot floppy in the drive.) Actually, you need the base OS to boot the unit and the 80186 emulator code. Surely someone on this list has the system tapes for a 64000 laying around... Good luck... Bill SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: > Hi guys, > Does HP 64000 have a build in HD? If I don't have > the floppy disks, can I boot it? Also, where can I > find the softwhere for the 80186 emulator that comes > with it? Thanks. It is bulky. > > vax, 3900 > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25? > http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Apr 24 06:37:58 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 23 April 2004 20:12 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Time article about Jobs > > > > > On Thu, 2004-04-22 at 23:09, Witchy wrote: > > > if anyone really cares I'll soon be based in the south of england > > Near enough to London that I'll be able to help fix your > stuff face-to-face? Yup, I'll probably be about 30 miles from you! Trouble is, I'll only be able to afford a small flat so there won't be any space for dead-machine storage..... Cheers w From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Apr 24 06:39:21 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: HP 64000 with 80186 emulator? In-Reply-To: <20040424041612.84855.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040424073921.00833100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:16 PM 4/23/04 -0700, you wrote: >Hi guys, > Does HP 64000 have a build in HD? No. There are no built-in drives except a tape drive and they normally have the same problem as the HP-85 and othe rHP tape drives. ((Melted drive rollers). You can add external floppy and/or hard drives via HP-IB. If I don't have >the floppy disks, can I boot it? Also, where can I >find the softwhere for the 80186 emulator that comes >with it? Don't know. Check with Frank McConnell. I gave him all the docs and SW that I could find. Joe Thanks. It is bulky. > >vax, 3900 > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25? >http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Apr 24 07:20:49 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: HP 64000 with 80186 emulator? In-Reply-To: <4089F5A1.3020200@yahoo.com> References: <20040424041612.84855.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> <20040424041612.84855.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040424082049.00837100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:05 PM 4/23/04 -0600, you wrote: >There was a prototype of the 64000 with a 5MB >hard drive, but I don't know if it was ever >produced. > >The original 64000 benchtops had a tape drive >(DC100? DC300? I want to say DC300 but I'm not sure, it's been a long time. However it's the same tapes that are used in the HP-85s. Check the archives, they have been plenty of discussions about HP-85 tapes and drives. Don't waste your time or money on old HP tapes, they're ALL bad. Take my word for it!!! You can use the old DC 2(something) 40 Mb tapes that were used for backups in PCs. The DEC CompacTape will also work. The tapes will have to formatted. I'm not sure if the 64000 can do that or not but the HP-85 and 9825 can so I suspect the 64000 can too. Can't remember, IIRC it was the >same drive used in the 26xx terminals, but a >different data format on the tape, of course :-) >and a later option had two 5.25 floppy drives in >place of the tape drive. The ones that I've seen with the tape drives are marked 64000. The ones with the two floppy disks were marked 64100 and the large "portable" one were marked 64110. The portable version is built like an oversize (and overweight!) Kaypro. > >The whole idea was to put several 64000s on >one "large" disk drive using the HP-IB port on >the back. The resulting arrangement was called >a "cluster" in the HP manuals. I've seen that shown in some of the manuals but I suspect that they would require the use of some kind of SRM (Shared Resource Manager) software. You could also hook >up a standard HP-IB printer to the cluster... >I seem to remember some mumbo-jumbo where the >disc had to be HP-IB ID 0 and the printer ID 1, >but that may have just been the early devices. > >We used 7920s (50MB) and 7925s (125MB) until the >winchester types were available (7914, etc.) The >64000s would boot from the common disk. You might >be able to locate some of those around... 7906 with >the HP-IB option should also work, but you would >probably have better luck locating a CS-80 drive >like a 7912/7914/etc. You'd have a lot better luck finding a 7957, 7958 or 7959. They're a lot smaller, newer and more reliable. I've NEVER found one of the large 79xx drives that was still working. The 7957, 7958 and 7959 are roughly 80 Mb, 150 Mb and 300 Mb capacity. If you only need 15, 20 or 40 Mb then you can probably use a 9133, 9134, 9153 or something of that type. 20 Mb doesn't sound like much but it's more than enough for most of the old HP computers. I have a 80 Mb 7958 attached to my HP Integral and I've installed every piece of software that was ever available for the IPC and I've only used a fraction of the drive. Hint. If you're considering the purchase of any of these HP drives, plug it in first and power it up without connecting it to a system. The newer ones have built-in self test and thry will run for about a minute and test the drive. If the fault light comes on and stays on then the drive is bad so don't buy it. Some of the early ones have a 2 character display on the back. If they pass selftest it will show P and the HP-IB code (2 for example). If they say F something then they failed self test. ALSO on some (or all?) models powering them up >>with no system attached<< will cause them to park the heads. That's another reason that I always power them up before purchasing and moving them. One more thing! If you get involved with any of the 3.5" floppy drives be warned that the double sided drive have a bad tendency to get gummy and not open completely. When that happens, the top head will catch on the disk when you try to insert or remove it. That will ruin both the head and disk. Check these carefully BEFORE even putting a disk in them. The good news is that all you need to do to fix the problem is to clean the old grease off the drive and relubricate it. Check the archives for more information. > >If it has floppies (like the "portable" version) you >can boot it from floppy, if you have them... The ones >for the portable unit should boot in a crock. (You >could also put the "portable" (dragable?) unit on >a benchtop cluster and it would boot from the cluster >if there wasn't a boot floppy in the drive.) > >Actually, you need the base OS to boot the unit and >the 80186 emulator code. Surely someone on this list >has the system tapes for a 64000 laying around... I believe I gave some to Frank a couple of years ago but the biggest problem is going to be finding a good tape drive. If somebody is serious about these they should fix one of the tape drives then connect a external floppy drive and dump the tapes to a^H MULTIPLE floppy disk. That's what I've been wanting to do with the HP-85 and HP 9825 software. The tape drive isn't exactly the same as that used in the HP-85 and other calculators. It is the same as that used in some of HP Spectrum Analyzers and other test equipment. But it's similar enough that you can follow the instructions for fixing a HP-85 tape dirve. Those have been published here on the list several times and should be available in the archives. The main things that you need to watch are to get the roller the right size and close to being round. Joe > >Good luck... > >Bill > > >SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: >> Hi guys, >> Does HP 64000 have a build in HD? If I don't have >> the floppy disks, can I boot it? Also, where can I >> find the softwhere for the 80186 emulator that comes >> with it? Thanks. It is bulky. >> >> vax, 3900 >> >> >> >> >> __________________________________ >> Do you Yahoo!? >> Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25? >> http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash > > From dzubint at vcn.bc.ca Sat Apr 24 07:39:50 2004 From: dzubint at vcn.bc.ca (Thomas Dzubin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Making the decision to specialize on a particular classic comp. arch? Message-ID: I'm wondering if anyone else has this problem. For years and years, I've basically collected anything non-Wintel old-ish (older than ten years) computer-related stuff. I've got quite a few systems which aren't really "rare" like Commodore 64, Radio Shack Cocos & MC-10s, TI-99s, etc. etc. I've also been amassing a collection of DEC PDP and VAX "stuff" which I work on, use, and enjoy on a regular basis. My basement is a mess and I'm starting to think about scaling back by selling or giving away some of the non-DEC common stuff. (I regularily see Commodore 64s on eBay for $20) Is this specializing the right approach? Am I likely going to be kicking myself in fifteen years because I *had* a working Radio Shaft Colour Computer and I eBay-ed it for $10? Also in my mind is the possible demise of analog TV and it may not be possible to find a TV with a composite-input to plug my C64 into in fifteen years if everything (including broadcast) is digital Any thoughts, comments, or opinions? Thomas Dzubin From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Apr 24 08:19:26 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Making the decision to specialize on a particular classic comp. arch? References: Message-ID: <003701c429fe$c441dfe0$962a1941@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Dzubin" To: Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 8:39 AM Subject: Making the decision to specialize on a particular classic comp. arch? > > I'm wondering if anyone else has this problem. > For years and years, I've basically collected anything > non-Wintel old-ish (older than ten years) computer-related stuff. > I've got quite a few systems which aren't really "rare" like Commodore > 64, Radio Shack Cocos & MC-10s, TI-99s, etc. etc. > > I've also been amassing a collection of DEC PDP and VAX "stuff" which > I work on, use, and enjoy on a regular basis. > > My basement is a mess and I'm starting to think about scaling back by > selling or giving away some of the non-DEC common stuff. > (I regularily see Commodore 64s on eBay for $20) > > Is this specializing the right approach? Am I likely going to be kicking > myself in fifteen years because I *had* a working Radio Shaft Colour > Computer and I eBay-ed it for $10? > Also in my mind is the possible demise of analog TV and it may not be > possible to find a TV with a composite-input to plug my C64 into in > fifteen years if everything (including broadcast) is digital > > Any thoughts, comments, or opinions? > > Thomas Dzubin > If you get most of your computers for free from people getting rid of theirs its hard to specialize. I buy exactly the models I want, which fall into older game machines (either owned at one time or never had) and work machines (older mac and pc). I only get the ones I really want so I can keep the volume manageable and still have space to set everything up for use. Its hard to turn down a free machine you never had, but sooner or later you have to decide what computers you really want and stick to those. My collection: Apple IIgs Mac IIfx Mac 840AV Mac AWS95 Powermac 8500 Powermac 7500 Amiga 500 Amiga 2000 Amiga 1200 Timex 2068 C64 C128 Tandy 1000 HX Various Wintel computers from 386 to XP1500+ Everything except the Tandy HX and IIgs are setup to run now, have to clear some room on a table to set those up. Nothing really rare of hard to find but that's not the point of the collection. As far as the analog TV , they will be around for quite a while especially when companies will be selling digital converter boxes for them. I use monitors instead of TV's for my machine so unless they die I am set for quite a while. From sastevens at earthlink.net Sat Apr 24 08:39:58 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Nearly on topic-ish. Digital HiNote VP laptop In-Reply-To: <007301c42968$87e22960$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <007301c42968$87e22960$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20040424083958.254cacf0.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:23:59 -0400 "John Allain" wrote: > > because the CMOS battery (non-standard dammit) > > All I can say is that replacing one battery with one of another shape > (both are two leads) is one of the easiest retrogrades somebody > could do. If you can't find the specs of the old battery then post a > picture... > > Now, try getting 4 wires of an unknown PSU matched up... > > John A. > > I just shunted around the whole issue of replacing the battery or the proprietary AD adapter on an old Compaq 386sx laptop I had that I wanted to bring up for use. I figured out which of the four leads on the non-standard AC adapter jack were for +12 and ground, took the whole thing open, and routed in a common connector from the side, mounting it on a face of the plastic case where there was room for it. It has a new hole in the case and wires routed oddly through the case, but it's a common 386sx machine that now is useful for DOS and Minix. There are a lot of old laptops marooned in this state (no AC adapter, battery dead) for which this is a viable way of salvaging them. From vax3900 at yahoo.com Sat Apr 24 08:59:27 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Digital RK05J Message-ID: <20040424135927.10619.qmail@web60705.mail.yahoo.com> Does somebody want one? I found one in a warehouse that is used in a big digital test bench. They ask $299 for the whole bench (maybe 1000 LB) but I can ask them whether I can pull the RK05j and buy that only. I ask $10 handling fee only. Thank you! vax, 3900 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sat Apr 24 09:58:21 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Digital RK05J In-Reply-To: <20040424135927.10619.qmail@web60705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: DEFINITELY INTERESTED! Whare are you (actually the stuff) located? Please contact me off-list David V. Corbin david@dynamicconcepts.us 631-244-8487 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of SHAUN RIPLEY >>> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 9:59 AM >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: Digital RK05J >>> >>> Does somebody want one? I found one in a warehouse that is >>> used in a big digital test bench. They ask >>> $299 for the whole bench (maybe 1000 LB) but I can ask them >>> whether I can pull the RK05j and buy that only. I ask $10 >>> handling fee only. Thank you! >>> >>> vax, 3900 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________________________________ >>> Do you Yahoo!? >>> Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" >>> http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Apr 24 10:13:56 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Making the decision to specialize on a particular classic comp. arch? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040424103358.0483ba58@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Thomas Dzubin may have mentioned these words: >I'm wondering if anyone else has this problem. >For years and years, I've basically collected anything >non-Wintel old-ish (older than ten years) computer-related stuff. >I've got quite a few systems which aren't really "rare" like Commodore >64, Radio Shack Cocos & MC-10s, TI-99s, etc. etc. Guilty. >My basement is a mess and I'm starting to think about scaling back by >selling or giving away some of the non-DEC common stuff. >(I regularily see Commodore 64s on eBay for $20) Been there, done that, still got the scars. I'm taking a hard look at what I'll actually have time to tinker with within the next 15 years, and if it's something I don't think I'll have time for (and common as dirt), I'm getting rid of it. >Is this specializing the right approach? Only you can answer that for yourself. ;-) > Am I likely going to be kicking >myself in fifteen years because I *had* a working Radio Shaft Colour >Computer and I eBay-ed it for $10? I would doubt that, they're so common that I doubt they'll be "rare" anytime soon... >Also in my mind is the possible demise of analog TV and it may not be >possible to find a TV with a composite-input to plug my C64 into in >fifteen years if everything (including broadcast) is digital Nope - there are NTSC -> VGA upconverters you can get for under $80USD. I'm looking to get one so I can turn my 17" LCD into a NTSC monitor for my computers & S-Video display for satellite/DVD player. It's tough to totally get rid of a standard that's been around since the TV industry was in it's infancy... Heck, I can still hook a 360K floppy drive to my Dual Athlon 2600+ mongobox, and read floppies... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | A new truth in advertising slogan sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | for MicroSoft: "We're not the oxy... zmerch@30below.com | ...in oxymoron!" From wacarder at usit.net Sat Apr 24 10:33:53 2004 From: wacarder at usit.net (Ashley Carder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Digital RK05J In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm interested too, but David spoke first. What else in in the test bench? -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of David V. Corbin Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 10:58 AM To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: RE: Digital RK05J Importance: High DEFINITELY INTERESTED! Whare are you (actually the stuff) located? Please contact me off-list David V. Corbin david@dynamicconcepts.us 631-244-8487 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of SHAUN RIPLEY >>> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 9:59 AM >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: Digital RK05J >>> >>> Does somebody want one? I found one in a warehouse that is >>> used in a big digital test bench. They ask >>> $299 for the whole bench (maybe 1000 LB) but I can ask them >>> whether I can pull the RK05j and buy that only. I ask $10 >>> handling fee only. Thank you! >>> >>> vax, 3900 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________________________________ >>> Do you Yahoo!? >>> Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" >>> http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash From classiccmp at trailing-edge.com Sat Apr 24 10:31:34 2004 From: classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: VAX Architecture (was KA620) In-Reply-To: <0403200003.AA15638@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0403200003.AA15638@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <408A8856.nail1D911YGN6@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> > [AXE and VAX instruction-level testing] A list of VAX and peripheral diagnostics up through mid-1980's is on the web at http://www.trailing-edge.com/~shoppa/evndx.html The ones that are on the VAXSIM diagnostic tapes, I have in some form or another. Many of the diagnostics come with detailed instructions, others are much more poorly documented. Tim. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Apr 24 13:25:43 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Making the decision to specialize on a particular classic comp. arch? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I've got quite a few systems which aren't really "rare" like Commodore >64, Radio Shack Cocos & MC-10s, TI-99s, etc. etc. > >I've also been amassing a collection of DEC PDP and VAX "stuff" which >I work on, use, and enjoy on a regular basis. Join the club, sounds about like the mess I'm in. I made the decision that I need to get rid of the junk about a year ago. The comes the question of actually doing it, and how do you do it. At times just dumping it looks very good, and I believe it to be the healthy choice. At least your stuff is in your basement. I'm one of those that is paying for a storage unit to store it all (actually more than one)! Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Apr 24 14:45:59 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Nearly on topic-ish. Digital HiNote VP laptop In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20040423192153.04338008@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rob O'Donnell > Sent: 23 April 2004 19:29 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Nearly on topic-ish. Digital HiNote VP laptop > > I've got one here. HiNote VP, Model TS30G. Pentium 133 ISTR. Mine's only a P75 but it DOES have 64mb so would make a nice temporary webserver. > Mine works fine with battery removed, just running off the > external ac adapter. Hm. I've got a problem then. > off, or it switched to external-monitor mode (not sure which) > so pressing Fn & various display-type options on the number > keys can get it back. I wondered about the external monitor mode, but now when I power up both the power and battery lights go off and stay off. > Somewhere I've got a spare docking station for one of these > too, if it's of > any use to you? Brings out all the normal PC-style ports No ta, I've got one which was why I was thinking about its usefulness as a Linux server. It's been stored in nice dry conditions since I got it so I'm not sure what could've killed it.....puzzling. Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Apr 24 14:47:19 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Nearly on topic-ish. Digital HiNote VP laptop In-Reply-To: <007301c42968$87e22960$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Allain > Sent: 23 April 2004 20:24 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Nearly on topic-ish. Digital HiNote VP laptop > > > because the CMOS battery (non-standard dammit) > > All I can say is that replacing one battery with one of > another shape (both are two leads) is one of the easiest > retrogrades somebody could do. If you can't find the specs > of the old battery then post a picture... I know I can replace it no bother, but it should really still run without the battery present.... > Now, try getting 4 wires of an unknown PSU matched up... Heh, I've got a Grundy Newbrain PSU here that's missing its plug so I'll be having similar fun trying to sort that one out :) Cheers w From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Apr 24 14:51:19 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: HP Viper problems Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040424155119.00835c30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone here have any experience with the HP Viper or HyperViper cards? Now that I have a working HyperViper system I've been pulling out all the Viper and HyperViper cards that I've has stashed away and testing them. I found the the software on the working system works fine with the 82321C Viper cards but not with the 82321B Viper cards. The device loader and BASIC loader both work fine and they start what looks like a HP 9000 type boot sequence that shows all the installed devices and does a memory test. After that completes it SHOULD looks for a HP system file and boot HP BASIC. The C cards work fine but the B cards never find the system. Everything is EXACTLY indentical except the card revision. I'm using the last version of the drivers and according to HP they should work for all versions of the card but I've checked two HyperVipers and two C cards and they all work and yet none of the four B cards work. FWIW I have another system with an older version of the software. It used to work but the hard drive in it has been slowly dying and now it won't can find the system either. It has a B card in it and I think version C software. The odd thing is that it looks exactly like a 9816 or 9836 booting up. It even displays a message saying that it's a 9816 or 9836C (depending on which you select with the configuration utility). The later system says that it's a PC 300 and the boot screen is somewhat different. I think the difference in due to the newer software but I'm not sure. I need to pull the card from the old system and try it in the newer one to be sure. (There is a Boot ROM on the cards and in a real HP 9000 it controls those messages but I don't think that's the case on these.) I tracked down a new sealed package of the Viper software but wouldn't you know it, it's missing disk 2!!!! Does anyone have any original software for these or any experience is getting them running? I'm also looking for some of the key combinations that HP uses to emulate the HP keyboard for thing like the Stop and Reset keys and how to get back to the User keyboard from the system keyboard. Joe From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sat Apr 24 15:07:05 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Teletype re-assembly... In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040424155119.00835c30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: OK, I admit it...I am so confused... I finally received a TTY complete with punch, reader, and call control a little over a week ago. Although it was damaged in shipping. http://www.dynamicconcepts.us/Teletype/BrokenCover1.JPG Every thing except the cover appears in good shape. I have all of the documentation (I believe) is available from PDP8.net. I have carefully checked it out mechanically and (non-powered) electrically as best as I am able. The only question on this fromnt is one switch which appears to be out of position, but I can Not find a reference picture http://www.dynamicconcepts.us/Teletype/Switch1.JPG What I can not seem to find the documentation for is the interconnection of the various Molex connectors: http://www.dynamicconcepts.us/Teletype/Cables1.JPG If anyone could spare some time to help walk me through getting this safely powered up, I would be very grateful. Thanks in Advance David Corbin david@dynamicconcepts.us From vax3900 at yahoo.com Sat Apr 24 15:27:28 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Digital RK05J In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040424202728.94436.qmail@web60705.mail.yahoo.com> There are two in the bench and two have already claimed them :) I need to ask them on Monday whether they want to seperately sell the RK05j's. Other things in it are non-DEC. I forgot who made them. I could let you know after I take another look. vax, 3900 --- Ashley Carder wrote: > I'm interested too, but David spoke first. What > else in in the test bench? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of > David V. Corbin > Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 10:58 AM > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > Posts' > Subject: RE: Digital RK05J > Importance: High > > > DEFINITELY INTERESTED! > > Whare are you (actually the stuff) located? > > Please contact me off-list > > David V. Corbin > david@dynamicconcepts.us > 631-244-8487 > > > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf > Of SHAUN RIPLEY > >>> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 9:59 AM > >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >>> Subject: Digital RK05J > >>> > >>> Does somebody want one? I found one in a > warehouse that is > >>> used in a big digital test bench. They ask > >>> $299 for the whole bench (maybe 1000 LB) but I > can ask them > >>> whether I can pull the RK05j and buy that only. > I ask $10 > >>> handling fee only. Thank you! > >>> > >>> vax, 3900 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> __________________________________ > >>> Do you Yahoo!? > >>> Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints > for 25" > >>> http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash From allain at panix.com Sat Apr 24 15:36:17 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Nearly on topic-ish. Digital HiNote VP laptop References: <007301c42968$87e22960$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <20040424083958.254cacf0.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <004b01c42a3b$cbf53ba0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > There are a lot of old laptops marooned in this state (no AC adapter, > battery dead) Yeah, I have some trouble walking past. I have a 30 minute to repair rule. No progress in 30 minutes, it goes back to the dump. Fastest fix: rip open the battery pack, put 12V (typically) regulated in on the two leads that are indicated by the wiring. BTW I've found that the Jehova's Witnesses that I chat up (or vice-versa) are a good sink for the older systems that shouldnt've been thrown. I believe you probably should listen to the religious message first though, then switch to this topic. John A. From allain at panix.com Sat Apr 24 15:42:47 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Making the decision to specialize on a particular classic comp.arch? References: Message-ID: <006701c42a3c$b4b23a00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Any thoughts, comments, or opinions? o Might as well pick what you know. Pick things you've been familliar with. o Why have five of something? A quantity of a thing past three seems excessive: One to use, one for spare, so the third one is the only excess I try to allow. No huge quantities of any one thing, except the very small. When I saw a neat deal on something I had the magic three of already it was praised and left on the table. o Specialize? Yes. I seemed to start specializing early on when things started to get easier to find. Only regret: the $200 flea-market IBM 5100's in the early 80's. Not much of a regret BTW. o Share. If your conscience gets in the way of a throw, go here (classiccmp). If classiccmp rejects it maybe you should throw. o Empty space can be as valuable as filled space. (For those times when you look at a room-full and seem to only just add up the value of the systems in it). About the analog TV... There should be adaptors around for people with Camcorders, at least, for years. Huge market, probably alot like LP record players are today, 23 years after the birth of the CD, you can still buy them new. John A. From vax3900 at yahoo.com Sat Apr 24 15:49:58 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Digital RK05J In-Reply-To: <20040424202728.94436.qmail@web60705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040424204958.98665.qmail@web60705.mail.yahoo.com> A photo is available at http://www.geocities.com/MSCPSCSI/PHOTOS/09-125-398.jpg have fun vax, 3900 --- SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: > There are two in the bench and two have already > claimed them :) I need to ask them on Monday whether > they want to seperately sell the RK05j's. Other > things > in it are non-DEC. I forgot who made them. I could > let > you know after I take another look. > > vax, 3900 > > > --- Ashley Carder wrote: > > I'm interested too, but David spoke first. What > > else in in the test bench? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of > > David V. Corbin > > Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 10:58 AM > > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > > Posts' > > Subject: RE: Digital RK05J > > Importance: High > > > > > > DEFINITELY INTERESTED! > > > > Whare are you (actually the stuff) located? > > > > Please contact me off-list > > > > David V. Corbin > > david@dynamicconcepts.us > > 631-244-8487 > > > > > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On > Behalf > > Of SHAUN RIPLEY > > >>> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 9:59 AM > > >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > >>> Subject: Digital RK05J > > >>> > > >>> Does somebody want one? I found one in a > > warehouse that is > > >>> used in a big digital test bench. They ask > > >>> $299 for the whole bench (maybe 1000 LB) but I > > can ask them > > >>> whether I can pull the RK05j and buy that > only. > > I ask $10 > > >>> handling fee only. Thank you! > > >>> > > >>> vax, 3900 > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> __________________________________ > > >>> Do you Yahoo!? > > >>> Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints > > for 25" > > >>> http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for > 25„1¤7> http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Apr 24 12:53:22 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Whitechapel MG-1 workstation questions Message-ID: <1082829202.22371.13.camel@weka.localdomain> A few initial questions after a couple of these beasties turned up at the museum: Does anyone have OS install media for these? We've got the manuals, but no floppies and I'm not sure what state the hard drives are in yet. Don't suppose anybody has schematics / service information? Predictably, the batteries inside the machines are toast and have taken half the circuitry with them (grr!). I'll clean everything up and then bypass the tracks which have been damaged / eaten away. Presumably there's a trick to starting these things after battery failure by feeding power straight to the internal relay - any ideas what voltage it needs though? And once running will I still need to keep the relay energised or will the PSU circuitry take over (even in the absence of batteries - I'm just going to remove the damn things completely)? I've got one hard drive to spin up and become ready after dumping half a can of WD40 onto the bottom spindle bearing - it wouldn't even turn before that. Now it just sounds like a sick cat. :-/ Hopefully it'll last long enough to get any useful data off it though. I notice what seems to be a SCSI connector on the system board - can I pull out the ST506 disks and just run a more modern (and hence reliable) SCSI disk from here? Or is the SCSI connector (if that's what it even is!) just designed to support a tape drive, and the machine always expects the boot drive to be an ST506 disk? cheers Jules From bernd at kopriva.de Sat Apr 24 16:20:40 2004 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Whitechapel MG-1 workstation questions In-Reply-To: <1082829202.22371.13.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200404242131.i3OLVbJ2006886@huey.classiccmp.org> Hi Jules, i got that one formTony Duell some times ago : >There's a trick if the machine won't power up at all... > >The power switch on the MG1 is software-controlled (!), and it runs off 5 >AA NiCd cells on the power distribution board (these also keep the RTC >running). They're charged when the machine is running, but of course if >you leave it powered-down for too long, they go flat, and you can't turn >it on agaain. > >The way round this is to connect a 9V battery (a PP3 or similar) to 2 of >the pins of one of the connectors on the power distribution board (I can >get the exact details). The machine will then power up, and you leave it >running until the NiCds are charged The connector is J13 ... Btw: do you have a spare power supply (or maybe some schematics) ? Mine is dead, so i never got my machine up and running :-( Bernd On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 17:53:22 +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > >A few initial questions after a couple of these beasties turned up at >the museum: > >Does anyone have OS install media for these? We've got the manuals, but >no floppies and I'm not sure what state the hard drives are in yet. > >Don't suppose anybody has schematics / service information? > >Predictably, the batteries inside the machines are toast and have taken >half the circuitry with them (grr!). I'll clean everything up and then >bypass the tracks which have been damaged / eaten away. Presumably >there's a trick to starting these things after battery failure by >feeding power straight to the internal relay - any ideas what voltage it >needs though? And once running will I still need to keep the relay >energised or will the PSU circuitry take over (even in the absence of >batteries - I'm just going to remove the damn things completely)? > > >I've got one hard drive to spin up and become ready after dumping half a >can of WD40 onto the bottom spindle bearing - it wouldn't even turn >before that. Now it just sounds like a sick cat. :-/ >Hopefully it'll last long enough to get any useful data off it though. > >I notice what seems to be a SCSI connector on the system board - can I >pull out the ST506 disks and just run a more modern (and hence reliable) >SCSI disk from here? Or is the SCSI connector (if that's what it even >is!) just designed to support a tape drive, and the machine always >expects the boot drive to be an ST506 disk? > > >cheers > >Jules > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 24 16:21:18 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Nearly on topic-ish. Digital HiNote VP laptop In-Reply-To: <004b01c42a3b$cbf53ba0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Apr 24, 4 04:36:17 pm Message-ID: > > > There are a lot of old laptops marooned in this state (no AC adapter, > > battery dead) > > Yeah, I have some trouble walking past. I have a 30 minute to repair rule. > No progress in 30 minutes, it goes back to the dump. I hope this only applies to modern PC-clones.... I've spent hours, weeks or months repairing classic computers in the past. Heck, the last HP67 calcultor to cross my bench took me 15 hours to sort out.... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 24 15:58:43 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Apr 24, 4 12:37:58 pm Message-ID: > > Near enough to London that I'll be able to help fix your > > stuff face-to-face? > > Yup, I'll probably be about 30 miles from you! Trouble is, I'll only be able > to afford a small flat so there won't be any space for dead-machine > storage..... Oh well.. We should meet up anyway. Surely you can bring the odd machine down one at a time for repair... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 24 16:07:00 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Making the decision to specialize on a particular classic comp. In-Reply-To: from "Thomas Dzubin" at Apr 24, 4 05:39:50 am Message-ID: > > > I'm wondering if anyone else has this problem. > For years and years, I've basically collected anything > non-Wintel old-ish (older than ten years) computer-related stuff. > I've got quite a few systems which aren't really "rare" like Commodore > 64, Radio Shack Cocos & MC-10s, TI-99s, etc. etc. I sometimes (mentally) kick myself because I didn't buy up 'common' home computers about 20 years ago (things like ZX80s, TI99/4a's, etc) and now I don't have them in the collection. On the other hand, I am not really a collector, more a hacker, so I am glad I bought the obscure stuff (P850, PDP's, Nanocomp, etc) which is probably more interesting to work on. > > I've also been amassing a collection of DEC PDP and VAX "stuff" which > I work on, use, and enjoy on a regular basis. > > My basement is a mess and I'm starting to think about scaling back by > selling or giving away some of the non-DEC common stuff. > (I regularily see Commodore 64s on eBay for $20) > > Is this specializing the right approach? Am I likely going to be kicking > myself in fifteen years because I *had* a working Radio Shaft Colour > Computer and I eBay-ed it for $10? Depends on what you're really interested in. If you like minicomputers, and like them becuase they're multi-user machines, or because they've got processors built from TTL that you can get inside with a logic analyser, or... then you might as well not bother with the home micros. If you want to have a more historically-based collection then you probably should keep the micros too. > Also in my mind is the possible demise of analog TV and it may not be > possible to find a TV with a composite-input to plug my C64 into in > fifteen years if everything (including broadcast) is digital Well, I would always want to keep at least one composite video monitor around, it's useful for all sorts of purposes. And of course good monitors can be repaired. However, I suspect somebody will still be selling composite-input boxes for whatever display is current in 20 years time. There's so much stuff around with composite outputs that people will still want to use. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 24 16:13:55 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Nearly on topic-ish. Digital HiNote VP laptop In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Apr 24, 4 08:47:19 pm Message-ID: > Heh, I've got a Grundy Newbrain PSU here that's missing its plug so I'll be > having similar fun trying to sort that one out :) I have the Newbrain schematics, so I can find the pinout of the power connector (IIRC 4 pins used) on the Newbrain. Then it's just a matter of taking the PSU apart, finding the common ground wire, and identifying the voltages on the other 3 wires. Not hard at all. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 24 16:18:36 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Teletype re-assembly... In-Reply-To: from "David V. Corbin" at Apr 24, 4 04:07:05 pm Message-ID: > What I can not seem to find the documentation for is the interconnection of > the various Molex connectors: > http://www.dynamicconcepts.us/Teletype/Cables1.JPG Do you mean the 15 pin ones at the back of the call control unit? The cable-mounted plugs should all be numbered, the sockets are in 2 rows of 4, 1 to 4 (left to right looking from the back of the machine) in the top row, 5-8 in the bottom row. Many won't actually be used. IIRC, 3 is the motor, receive magnet, etc connetor, 8 goes to the distributor disk, 6 and 7 are keyboard and reader (I forget which way round). And on a lot of of machine they're keyed so you can't get them in the wrong places. There will also me a socket on a fairly long cable. This connects to the Reader PSU, often moutned at the top of the stand, not in the main part of the teletype. > > If anyone could spare some time to help walk me through getting this safely > powered up, I would be very grateful. If it turns freely by hand, give it 115V, turn the frontpanel switch to 'Local' (assuming the normal private-line call control unit) and see what happenes -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 24 16:34:15 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:05 2005 Subject: Whitechapel MG-1 workstation questions In-Reply-To: <1082829202.22371.13.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Apr 24, 4 05:53:22 pm Message-ID: > > > A few initial questions after a couple of these beasties turned up at > the museum: I have one. I also have schematics, technical notes, and so on. > > Does anyone have OS install media for these? We've got the manuals, but Yes, but on 3.5" (720K) disks. You can put a 3.5" drive in place of the standard 5.25" 80 cylinder one, at least temporarily, to do an OS install. > no floppies and I'm not sure what state the hard drives are in yet. > > Don't suppose anybody has schematics / service information? Yes I do, inclduing schematics of the bits that weren't in the oficial manuals... > > Predictably, the batteries inside the machines are toast and have taken > half the circuitry with them (grr!). I'll clean everything up and then Well known problem. The 0.1" header connector between the power distribution board and the mainboard often suffers, BTW. Clean things up with a dilute solution of citric acid, the battery electrolyte is alkaline. The power distribution PCB is drilled to take the better-grade of AA cell holders that RS components sell (sold?). Fit those and pop in normal non-tagged AA NiCds. Easier to replace next time you need to do it. > bypass the tracks which have been damaged / eaten away. Presumably > there's a trick to starting these things after battery failure by > feeding power straight to the internal relay - any ideas what voltage it YEs, you connect a 9V PP3 battery to a connector on the power distribution board. I can look up the exact details. > needs though? And once running will I still need to keep the relay > energised or will the PSU circuitry take over (even in the absence of > batteries - I'm just going to remove the damn things completely)? I think you need the batteries to act as a shunt regulator for the RTC chip. You certainly do on a Torch XXX. Once you've jump-started the machine, it will stay running even if the NiCds are totally flat. You can disconnect the 9V battery once it's going. > > > I've got one hard drive to spin up and become ready after dumping half a > can of WD40 onto the bottom spindle bearing - it wouldn't even turn WD40 is not really a lubricant! > before that. Now it just sounds like a sick cat. :-/ Hmmm.. I prefer healthy cats... > Hopefully it'll last long enough to get any useful data off it though. > > I notice what seems to be a SCSI connector on the system board - can I No it's not. It's a 50 pin header that's connected to some of the signals on the hard disk controller chip (NEC 7261 or something like that -- I know I have some data on it). It was going to be used for an SMD interface. Pull out some of the chips on the mainboard (ST506 buffers, data separator, etc), connect an adapter board to this connector. Problem was, the DMA controller couldn't keep up with the SMD data rate, so the adapter was never produced. Mind you this is the machine where early models have a graphics 'processor' that's bit-serial and actually slower than doing the operations using the 32016. That's why later machines have lots of empty IC locations on the mainboard. > pull out the ST506 disks and just run a more modern (and hence reliable) > SCSI disk from here? Or is the SCSI connector (if that's what it even > is!) just designed to support a tape drive, and the machine always > expects the boot drive to be an ST506 disk? If you have the IBM slot adapter (which adds 3 8-bit ISA slots), then presumanly you could put a tape controller in one of those slots and write software to talk to it. I've never heard of it being done, and the IBM slot adapters are not exactly common. -tony From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Apr 24 16:31:49 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Making the decision to specialize on a particular classic comp.arch? In-Reply-To: <006701c42a3c$b4b23a00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <006701c42a3c$b4b23a00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <200404242143.RAA17292@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > o Why have five of something? A quantity of a thing past three > seems excessive: One to use, one for spare, so the third one > is the only excess I try to allow. Well, except if you actually use more than one. I have a large number of Suns, for example (and most of them are on-topic by now, I think, even) - but most of my live machines are Suns, and something like half to two-thirds of my Suns are normally in live use. (Not in live use at the moment, but that's because my machine room has been cut back to something moderately minimal, pending finding the round tuits to do some major physical reorganization.) > o Share. If your conscience gets in the way of a throw, go here > (classiccmp). I am accumulating quite a pile of stuff that is going to leave the house one way or another, and you can be sure that (aside from people met by chance who are interested, like the neighbour who wandered in and ended up leaving with a printer from that pile) classiccmp will get first crack at it. Almost all of it is firmly on-topic, after all. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Apr 24 17:09:49 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Whitechapel MG-1 workstation questions In-Reply-To: <200404242122.i3OLMBCL022493@weka.localdomain> References: <200404242122.i3OLMBCL022493@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1082844589.22371.25.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sat, 2004-04-24 at 21:20, Bernd Kopriva wrote: > Hi Jules, > i got that one formTony Duell some times ago : [snip] thanks for that. > Btw: do you have a spare power supply (or maybe some schematics) ? Mine > is dead, so i never got my machine up and running :-( The machine I've looked at so far has a good PSU, but the track on the power distribution board that feeds +12V to the system board is totally burned away, and someone had bypassed it with a piece of wire. Obviously the system board has suffered some major short at some point - I'm yet to find out if the bypass wire was added after they fixed the fault or not! In other words, it's possible one system board is completely dead, in which case yes there could well be a spare PSU. Depends on what state the system board is in this machine, and whether the PSU in the other one works or not; idealy getting two machines working would be nice! You could always use a standard PC PSU I expect. There's six different lines running to the PSU in these Whitechapels; GND, +5V, +12V, power fail are four of them. The purple wire I expect is -12V. That leaves a red wire, which would seem a strange colour to choose for a negative voltage. Maybe it's +15V or something odd, perhaps for driving the display. I'll let you know when I work it out :-) cheers Jules From donm at cts.com Sat Apr 24 17:10:26 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: HP 64000 with 80186 emulator? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040424082049.00837100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Apr 2004, Joe R. wrote: > At 11:05 PM 4/23/04 -0600, you wrote: > >There was a prototype of the 64000 with a 5MB > >hard drive, but I don't know if it was ever > >produced. > > > >The original 64000 benchtops had a tape drive > >(DC100? DC300? > > I want to say DC300 but I'm not sure, it's been a long time. However > it's the same tapes that are used in the HP-85s. Check the archives, they > have been plenty of discussions about HP-85 tapes and drives. Don't waste > your time or money on old HP tapes, they're ALL bad. Take my word for it!!! DC100! DC300s were the big suckers - about 4x6x.625 inches! - don > You can use the old DC 2(something) 40 Mb tapes that were used for backups > in PCs. The DEC CompacTape will also work. The tapes will have to > formatted. I'm not sure if the 64000 can do that or not but the HP-85 and > 9825 can so I suspect the 64000 can too. > > > Can't remember, IIRC it was the > >same drive used in the 26xx terminals, but a > >different data format on the tape, of course :-) > >and a later option had two 5.25 floppy drives in > >place of the tape drive. > > > The ones that I've seen with the tape drives are marked 64000. The ones > with the two floppy disks were marked 64100 and the large "portable" one > were marked 64110. The portable version is built like an oversize (and > overweight!) Kaypro. > > > > > > >The whole idea was to put several 64000s on > >one "large" disk drive using the HP-IB port on > >the back. The resulting arrangement was called > >a "cluster" in the HP manuals. > > I've seen that shown in some of the manuals but I suspect that they > would require the use of some kind of SRM (Shared Resource Manager) software. > > > > You could also hook > >up a standard HP-IB printer to the cluster... > >I seem to remember some mumbo-jumbo where the > >disc had to be HP-IB ID 0 and the printer ID 1, > >but that may have just been the early devices. > > > >We used 7920s (50MB) and 7925s (125MB) until the > >winchester types were available (7914, etc.) The > >64000s would boot from the common disk. You might > >be able to locate some of those around... 7906 with > >the HP-IB option should also work, but you would > >probably have better luck locating a CS-80 drive > >like a 7912/7914/etc. > > You'd have a lot better luck finding a 7957, 7958 or 7959. They're a lot > smaller, newer and more reliable. I've NEVER found one of the large 79xx > drives that was still working. The 7957, 7958 and 7959 are roughly 80 Mb, > 150 Mb and 300 Mb capacity. If you only need 15, 20 or 40 Mb then you can > probably use a 9133, 9134, 9153 or something of that type. 20 Mb doesn't > sound like much but it's more than enough for most of the old HP computers. > I have a 80 Mb 7958 attached to my HP Integral and I've installed every > piece of software that was ever available for the IPC and I've only used a > fraction of the drive. > > Hint. If you're considering the purchase of any of these HP drives, plug > it in first and power it up without connecting it to a system. The newer > ones have built-in self test and thry will run for about a minute and test > the drive. If the fault light comes on and stays on then the drive is bad > so don't buy it. Some of the early ones have a 2 character display on the > back. If they pass selftest it will show P and the HP-IB code (2 for > example). If they say F something then they failed self test. ALSO on some > (or all?) models powering them up >>with no system attached<< will cause > them to park the heads. That's another reason that I always power them up > before purchasing and moving them. > > One more thing! If you get involved with any of the 3.5" floppy drives > be warned that the double sided drive have a bad tendency to get gummy and > not open completely. When that happens, the top head will catch on the disk > when you try to insert or remove it. That will ruin both the head and disk. > Check these carefully BEFORE even putting a disk in them. The good news is > that all you need to do to fix the problem is to clean the old grease off > the drive and relubricate it. Check the archives for more information. > > > > > >If it has floppies (like the "portable" version) you > >can boot it from floppy, if you have them... The ones > >for the portable unit should boot in a crock. (You > >could also put the "portable" (dragable?) unit on > >a benchtop cluster and it would boot from the cluster > >if there wasn't a boot floppy in the drive.) > > > >Actually, you need the base OS to boot the unit and > >the 80186 emulator code. Surely someone on this list > >has the system tapes for a 64000 laying around... > > I believe I gave some to Frank a couple of years ago but the biggest > problem is going to be finding a good tape drive. If somebody is serious > about these they should fix one of the tape drives then connect a external > floppy drive and dump the tapes to a^H MULTIPLE floppy disk. That's what > I've been wanting to do with the HP-85 and HP 9825 software. The tape drive > isn't exactly the same as that used in the HP-85 and other calculators. It > is the same as that used in some of HP Spectrum Analyzers and other test > equipment. But it's similar enough that you can follow the instructions for > fixing a HP-85 tape dirve. Those have been published here on the list > several times and should be available in the archives. The main things that > you need to watch are to get the roller the right size and close to being > round. > > Joe > > > > >Good luck... > > > >Bill > > > > > >SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: > >> Hi guys, > >> Does HP 64000 have a build in HD? If I don't have > >> the floppy disks, can I boot it? Also, where can I > >> find the softwhere for the 80186 emulator that comes > >> with it? Thanks. It is bulky. > >> > >> vax, 3900 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> __________________________________ > >> Do you Yahoo!? > >> Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25? > >> http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash > > > > > > From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sat Apr 24 17:18:44 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Nearly on topic-ish. Digital HiNote VP laptop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <408AE7C4.8000400@gifford.co.uk> Witchy wrote: > Heh, I've got a Grundy Newbrain PSU here that's missing its plug so I'll be > having similar fun trying to sort that one out :) I have a working Grundy Newbrain, so we can fix that one fairly easily! -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From bernd at kopriva.de Sat Apr 24 17:25:14 2004 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Whitechapel MG-1 workstation questions In-Reply-To: <1082844589.22371.25.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200404242236.i3OMa9J2007696@huey.classiccmp.org> Hi Jules, unfortunately, a PC power supply won't work, as the red one delivers 24V which is needed for the monitor (again, that't from Tony Duell, who seems to know almost anything about that beauty ...). I had a used Astec LPQ252 as replacement, but that has been defective as well, so i had no luck until today ... Bernd On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 22:09:49 +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: >On Sat, 2004-04-24 at 21:20, Bernd Kopriva wrote: >> Hi Jules, >> i got that one formTony Duell some times ago : > >[snip] > >thanks for that. > >> Btw: do you have a spare power supply (or maybe some schematics) ? Mine >> is dead, so i never got my machine up and running :-( > >The machine I've looked at so far has a good PSU, but the track on the >power distribution board that feeds +12V to the system board is totally >burned away, and someone had bypassed it with a piece of wire. Obviously >the system board has suffered some major short at some point - I'm yet >to find out if the bypass wire was added after they fixed the fault or >not! > >In other words, it's possible one system board is completely dead, in >which case yes there could well be a spare PSU. Depends on what state >the system board is in this machine, and whether the PSU in the other >one works or not; idealy getting two machines working would be nice! > >You could always use a standard PC PSU I expect. There's six different >lines running to the PSU in these Whitechapels; GND, +5V, +12V, power >fail are four of them. The purple wire I expect is -12V. That leaves a >red wire, which would seem a strange colour to choose for a negative >voltage. Maybe it's +15V or something odd, perhaps for driving the >display. I'll let you know when I work it out :-) > >cheers > >Jules Bernd Kopriva Tel: 07195 / 179452 Weilerstr. 24 E-Mail : bernd@kopriva.de 71397 Leutenbach From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Apr 24 17:34:09 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Whitechapel MG-1 workstation questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1082846048.22371.50.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sat, 2004-04-24 at 21:34, Tony Duell wrote: > > Does anyone have OS install media for these? We've got the manuals, but > > Yes, but on 3.5" (720K) disks. You can put a 3.5" drive in place of the > standard 5.25" 80 cylinder one, at least temporarily, to do an OS install. Phew - it's just good to know someone has them. I doubt there are many of these machines about any more. > > Don't suppose anybody has schematics / service information? > > Yes I do, inclduing schematics of the bits that weren't in the oficial > manuals... Well I'll see how things go; hopefully it won't come to that! > > Predictably, the batteries inside the machines are toast and have taken > > half the circuitry with them (grr!). I'll clean everything up and then > > Well known problem. The 0.1" header connector between the power > distribution board and the mainboard often suffers, BTW. Clean things up > with a dilute solution of citric acid, the battery electrolyte is alkaline. ta - I've given the power distribution board a wash and got the worst of it off. I didn't bring the system board home with me so that one will have to wait a few days (and the other machine!) > I think you need the batteries to act as a shunt regulator for the RTC > chip. You certainly do on a Torch XXX. Hmm, it does feed around 3V to the system board when the power's off, presumably for the RTC. It'll get voltage from the PSU (switched via a transistor on the board I have here, although it looks like they originally just fed +5V in via a diode) when everything's running, so in theory it doesn't need the batteries for anything once running from mains power. > > I've got one hard drive to spin up and become ready after dumping half a > > can of WD40 onto the bottom spindle bearing - it wouldn't even turn > > WD40 is not really a lubricant! It's better than water :-] Problem on those rodime drives is that everything comes apart from the top IIRC, so there's no way of getting at the spindle bearing without taking the lid off and all the platters out :( Squirting some WD40 in through the little gap between the motor shell and the drive chassis managed to get enough onto the bearing assembly to disperse all the crud. I imagine it'll do nasty things longer term when everything's at running temperature, but if the drive just runs long enough to copy anything that looks useful off it, then that's better than a drive that was locked solid. > Hmmm.. I prefer healthy cats... Me too! > If you have the IBM slot adapter (which adds 3 8-bit ISA slots), then > presumanly you could put a tape controller in one of those slots and > write software to talk to it. I've never heard of it being done, and the > IBM slot adapters are not exactly common. Nope, no adapters in either of these machines. One has a 2MB memory board, the other hasn't been expanded at all. At least they have Ethernet, so I can hook it up to the LAN and copy anything useful off that way. cheers Jules From brianmahoney at look.ca Sat Apr 24 18:36:47 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Making the decision to specialize on a particular classic comp. arch? References: Message-ID: <000b01c42a55$146b9c80$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Dzubin" To: Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 8:39 AM Subject: Making the decision to specialize on a particular classic comp. arch? > > I'm wondering if anyone else has this problem. > For years and years, I've basically collected anything > non-Wintel old-ish (older than ten years) computer-related stuff. > I've got quite a few systems which aren't really "rare" like Commodore > 64, Radio Shack Cocos & MC-10s, TI-99s, etc. etc. > Well, they aren't rare now but if everyone throws them out or sells them on Ebay, there won't be all that many in circulation. None of these things may be worth anything now but I'm keeping mine anyway. At some point, maybe when my kids are my age, they will be worth something more. Antique stores are full of stuff that no one else kept and that everyone wants now. > I've also been amassing a collection of DEC PDP and VAX "stuff" which > I work on, use, and enjoy on a regular basis. > > My basement is a mess and I'm starting to think about scaling back by > selling or giving away some of the non-DEC common stuff. > (I regularily see Commodore 64s on eBay for $20) I don't collect the big stuff, thank goodness everyone else seems to, so storage is just a pain in the butt ... not an extreme problem. I've considered paying for a storage bin but that would only give me an excuse to collect more. Right now I am being selective about what I get and I'm finding Macs quite interesting and a whole lot easier to store. I can't imagine what you guys who collect the heavy stuff have to go through in terms of storage. But the big pieces also beg the question : In terms of 'value' will they be as attractive as the Commodores since they cost so much to maintain, store and ship. Certainly true collectors will usually want the large ones but weekend collectors will probably want a Commodore or Apple II. There are lots of points about preservation to be made for the large, heavy computers but that's for the people who have them to sort out. Hell, I can't imagine rewiring my basement to get a 220 outlet or two (Canada here) for a collection of large pieces. > > Is this specializing the right approach? Am I likely going to be kicking > myself in fifteen years because I *had* a working Radio Shaft Colour > Computer and I eBay-ed it for $10? > Also in my mind is the possible demise of analog TV and it may not be > possible to find a TV with a composite-input to plug my C64 into in > fifteen years if everything (including broadcast) is digital I've got a dozen or so Commodore 1701 and 1802 monitors, thank goodness. The hard ones are the older Tandy models which only had a 300 ohm out and required a balun or something similar to connect to a TV. > Any thoughts, comments, or opinions? > > Thomas Dzubin That's my few cents worth. My last point, I knew a collector once who kept all of his computers stored beside his bed, stacked to the ceiling in a bachelor flat. Often wondered what effect an earthquake would have on is longevity. Now that's a storage problem. bm __________________ Is your name on this list? It should be. http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 24 20:48:12 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Making the decision to specialize on a particular classic In-Reply-To: <200404242143.RAA17292@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from "der Mouse" at Apr 24, 4 05:31:49 pm Message-ID: > > > o Why have five of something? A quantity of a thing past three > > seems excessive: One to use, one for spare, so the third one > > is the only excess I try to allow. > > Well, except if you actually use more than one. I have a large number Other reasons for keeping more than 1 of a machine : You're setting up a network of them. This particularly applies if they have non-standard network hardware (e.g. Acorn Econet, or the Tandy cassette port pseudonetwork). You have lots of add-ons, more than you can connect to one machine at a time, and you don't want to keep on plugging and unplugging them. This applies in my case to HP41s. I have one set up with a card reader, HPIL, Extended IO ROM, another with card reader, HPIL, HPIL Development ROM, and so on. The're not absolutely identical. Maybe one has a particular ROM revision or something. HP41 hackers will know what I mean by a 'Bug 1' machine, and would agree it should definitely be kept! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 24 20:50:18 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Whitechapel MG-1 workstation questions In-Reply-To: <1082844589.22371.25.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Apr 24, 4 10:09:49 pm Message-ID: > You could always use a standard PC PSU I expect. There's six different > lines running to the PSU in these Whitechapels; GND, +5V, +12V, power > fail are four of them. The purple wire I expect is -12V. That leaves a Maybe -5V, I would check... > red wire, which would seem a strange colour to choose for a negative > voltage. Maybe it's +15V or something odd, perhaps for driving the > display. I'll let you know when I work it out :-) There's a +24V line for the monitor. It's routed over the power distribution PCB and mainboard to the monitor connector. Inside the monitor it's stepped up to +48V (there's a little swtiching converter PCB in there) and then feeds a 'standard' KME monitor chassis (very similar to the PERQ 2T1 monitor). -tony From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sat Apr 24 21:39:26 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Making the decision to specialize on a particular classic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>> Tandy cassette port pseudonetwork I have not seen one of those live in nearly (over?) twenty years!!!!! Does that bring back memories... From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Apr 24 21:53:30 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: New find; HP HyperViper Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040424225330.008a69e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hello Bernd, I'm still experimenting with the Viper system. The HyperViper is a real pleasure to use! Today I hooked up a couple of different external HP-IB hard drives and tested them. Two of them were untested and it turned out that both were bad :-( The third one is an old reliable standby HP7958B with HPL, three different configurations of HP BASIC 4, BASIC 5 and BASIC 6 installed on it. At first I couldn't see the drive when the HV started looking for operating systems but I was able to CATalog the drive after it booted the Rocky Mountain BASIC from the PC's hard drive. It took me a while to figure out why I couldn't see the external drive when the HV booted. I finally realized that it was booting so fast that I never saw the list of OSs on the external drive! The funny thing is that it showed the OS of the PC drive for several seconds before it booted but it booted IMMEDIATELY after showing the OSs on the HP-IB drive. I found that I had to press the space bar on the keyboard as soon as the Boot ROM kicked in and started showing system devices. Pressing the space bar stops it from booting after it shows the OSs. At that point you can boot any OS that you choose (same as any HP 9000 200/300). Anyway I was able to do a SYSTEM STORE of the RMB to the HP-IB drive and then boot it from that drive. It appears to work exactly the same as the copy loaded from the PC's hard drive. I could also boot BASIC 4 and BASIC 5 but the display was shrunken vertically on all of them. One configuration of BASIC 4 worked ok but the others of BASIC 4 and BASIC 5 all filled the blank areas of the screen with various characters when you did a CAT. However they all did seem to run. BASIC 6 was the real surprise. It definetly didn't like it! As soon as it started to load, the machine would jump back to DOS. Under normal conditions you CAN jump back to DOS but you should be able to go right back to RMB and your OS and application will still be running as if nothing happened. But in this case, you couldn't go back to RMB until you powered down the system and powered it up again and rerun the device driver and loader. The loader said that RMB was still running but you never could access it again. HPL was just as bad, when I tried to load it the screen cleared and the machine appeared to lock up. I couldn't switch back to DOS and Control-Alt-Delete didn't have any effect. IIRC HPL has a similar effect on the HP 9000 300s. HPL is only supposed to run on the 9826 and 9836. I think it will work on a 9816 but I don't think it will even run on the other 9000 200s such as the 217 and 237. I haven't tried Pascal yet. I have it on a drive but it's on another system and it will be a pain to get to. But I'll probably dig it out tomorrow and try it. I found a long list of optional parameters in the loader program (BASIC) including things like SELFTEST, MENU, SHORT, LONG and others but none of them appears to do anything. Anybody know anything about them? Joe At 06:10 PM 4/22/04 +0200, you wrote: >Hi Joe, >does it run a version of HP Pascal too ? I'm not sure but I believe it will. I think I remember reading that it will boot an OS from an external HP-IB drive just like a regular 9000/200 will. I need to dig out a drive and try it. Joe > >Thanks Bernd > >On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:24:23 -0400, Joe R. wrote: > >> Today I finally had a chance to check out a PC that I found a few weeks >>ago. I had picked it up becuase it had an HP-IB connector on one of the >>expansion cards. When I looked closer I saw that the card had a sticker >>marked "HP 82324". Bingo! That's the part number of the souped-up >>Measurement Coprocessor card that's commonly called a HyperViper! I have a >>number of Viper cards with 68000 CPUs but I'd never even seen a HyperViper >>card. The HyperViper uses a 16MHz 68030 CPU. The Vipers and HyperVipers are >>HP 9000 series 200 or series 300 computers on a board. You install them in >>a PC and run a driver and it switches over to the 680xx CPU and runs >>(almost!) exactly like HP 9000 computer. It has a built-in HP-IB port and >>supports additional HP-IB cards. It also mounts a HP 9000 file system in >>one file on the PCs hard drive. It uses the PC's parallel and serial ports >>and uses the PC's keybaord and monitor for user I/O. Anyway today I opened >>it up and cleaned all the dirt and insects out and fired it up. It booted >>to DOS then loaded the HP software then switched over to the HyperViper >>card and booted HP BASIC version 6.2 (Rocky Mountain BASIC) without a >>hitch. Wahoo! I'm in business now! It even has the last version (D.00.00) >>of the HP divers. >> >> HP's Viper and HyperViper site >> >> >> >> Joe > > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Apr 24 21:14:25 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: HP 64000 with 80186 emulator? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040424221425.00865a70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:10 PM 4/24/04 -0700, Don wrote: > > >On Sat, 24 Apr 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> At 11:05 PM 4/23/04 -0600, you wrote: >> >There was a prototype of the 64000 with a 5MB >> >hard drive, but I don't know if it was ever >> >produced. >> > >> >The original 64000 benchtops had a tape drive >> >(DC100? DC300? >> >> I want to say DC300 but I'm not sure, it's been a long time. However >> it's the same tapes that are used in the HP-85s. Check the archives, they >> have been plenty of discussions about HP-85 tapes and drives. Don't waste >> your time or money on old HP tapes, they're ALL bad. Take my word for it!!! > >DC100! DC300s were the big suckers - about 4x6x.625 inches! You're right. I should realized that. That what my Tektronix and IBM 5100 used. Joe From bernd at kopriva.de Sun Apr 25 01:03:54 2004 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: New find; HP HyperViper In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040424225330.008a69e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200404250615.i3P6FQJ2008987@huey.classiccmp.org> Hi Joe, thanks alot for your efforts ! Your experiences match my fears ... ... i think, the display emulation of the HyperViper card doesn't match any "standard" display option. I've almost no knowledge on HP Basic, but on HP Pascal, there is a list of supported display options (this list has been extended with every new release); do you have any information, which display emulation is used on the card ? Thanks Bernd From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Apr 25 05:52:47 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Yet another MC-1N post... this time, there's a picture Message-ID: <20040425105247.GE22471@bos7.spole.gov> OK... This will probably be the last one from me on this unless I can dig up some more info... I scanned the board to see if anyone recognizes it... http://www.penguincentral.com/retrocomputing/pix/sbc/MC-1N/MC-1N.jpg Might this be a Basicom MC-1N? -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 25-Apr-2004 10:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -60.1 F (-51.2 C) Windchill -120.4 F (-84.7 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 15.6 kts Grid 347 Barometer 685.6 mb (10416. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Apr 25 05:06:37 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Does anyone have the Nov 1980 issue of "Electronic Design"? Message-ID: <20040425100637.GB22412@bos7.spole.gov> In researching the INS8073 CPU, I ran across an ancient Usenet article that mentions that the 22-Nov-1980 issue of "Electronic Design" has an article that might be of interest. a) might anyone on the list have that particular magazine, and... b) would you be willing to scan the article? I can accept just about any format you might want to throw (TIFF, GIF, PS, PDF...) Thanks, -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 25-Apr-2004 10:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -60.2 F (-51.3 C) Windchill -98.59 F (-72.59 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9.30 kts Grid 000 Barometer 685.4 mb (10424. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Apr 25 05:30:46 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: BASICON MC-1N? Message-ID: <20040425103046.GB22471@bos7.spole.gov> More digging later has revealed three Usenet articles from the same week in 1997 of a product called the "BASICON MC-1N REV A" - there's no vendor name on my INS8073 board, but the part number matches. The Basicon, Inc. website says they are the victim of the current economic times. I've written the repair service listed on their page, but we'll see if they answer. In the meantime, has anyone heard of Basicon? Might their "MC-1N" be the same as what I have (INS8073, 2K SRAM, 8255...)? I've figured out most of the circuit - what has me stumped is that the chip selects are all run through a 74S188 burned as an adress PROM (its address lines are attached to A15-A11 of the CPU, and its data lines go to various chip selects on the board). I've tried building a circuit to manually dump the PROM (it's only 32x8), but no success there - all the bits read '0', which means "always selected" for all devices... clearly not correct. Once I figure out where in memory the MM58174A and 8255 are, I can do more than enter simple BASIC programs. I'd like to see if there's room in the memory map to add more SRAM - there's stuff I'd like to port from my collection of PET programs that would need more than 2K (especially since the 8073 doesn't appear to tokenize its BASIC code when it stores it in RAM or ROM). I've tried writing a program to read every Nth location between the top of RAM and the top of memory space (the RAM, I've already proven, is at the standard address of $1000)... because of the way the INS8073 determines its baud rate (110 bps in this case :-P), "empty" locations read back "182" - no matter where I look, though, I can't get any locations outside of RAM space to answer back with anything else. I'd love to get a manual for this, but there just doesn't seem to be that much information on the 'net about it (if I _have_ that particular product). I'm hoping that it is one of these... it's a pretty neat board... 24 I/O lines out the front, 2K of SRAM and either 2K or 4K (2716 or 2732) of ROM and a clock/calendar. There's even optional battery-backup for the clock chip and the SRAM (just add 3V-5V to a particular pin on the serial/power connector). Thanks for any leads. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 25-Apr-2004 10:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -60.3 F (-51.3 C) Windchill -114 F (-81.09 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 13.3 kts Grid 004 Barometer 685.5 mb (10420. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Apr 25 06:50:20 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Nearly on topic-ish. Digital HiNote VP laptop In-Reply-To: <408AE7C4.8000400@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Honniball > Sent: 24 April 2004 23:19 > To: General@jupiter.easily.co.uk; > Discussion@jupiter.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Nearly on topic-ish. Digital HiNote VP laptop > > Witchy wrote: > > Heh, I've got a Grundy Newbrain PSU here that's missing its plug so > > I'll be having similar fun trying to sort that one out :) > > I have a working Grundy Newbrain, so we can fix that one > fairly easily! I think my bigger problem will be sourcing the actual power connector unless I can just saw a bit of an IDE cable off and solder the ends together. I had 'fun' spending a few hours trying to find a company that still sold that sort of connector; according to people I've spoken to who actually built the things they used off-the-shelf RS components for the plugs but typically RS don't stock 'em any more. Cheers w From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Apr 25 06:53:28 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 24 April 2004 21:59 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Time article about Jobs > > > Yup, I'll probably be about 30 miles from you! Trouble is, > I'll only > > be able to afford a small flat so there won't be any space for > > dead-machine storage..... > > Oh well.. We should meet up anyway. Surely you can bring the > odd machine down one at a time for repair... That's the eventual plan, yes. I'll hopefully have enough room to set up a repair bench once I've paid Lee D. a visit and collected the 'scope he's got for me, then all I need to buy is a bench PSU. Plenty of dead machines to sort out :) Cheers w From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Sun Apr 25 09:21:14 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: BASICON MC-1N? Message-ID: > I've tried building a circuit to manually dump the PROM (it's > only 32x8), but no success there - all the bits read '0', You do know the 74S188 is open collector outputs? You'll need pullups or the data will always read '0' Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Apr 25 09:28:46 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: New find; HP HyperViper In-Reply-To: <200404250615.i3P6FQJ2008987@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <3.0.6.32.20040424225330.008a69e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040425102846.00930430@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:03 AM 4/25/04 +0200, you wrote: >Hi Joe, >thanks alot for your efforts ! Thanks. This is something that I've been wanting to sort out for a long time. It's been a real battle to find a system with working SW. I had one that worked briefly but the hard drive in it was rapidly dying and now it won't boot the HP BASIC OS. However this system seems to be running strong (knock on wood!) >Your experiences match my fears ... >... i think, the display emulation of the HyperViper card doesn't >match any "standard" display option. Well there really isn't a "standard display" when it comes to the HP 9000 computers. They're all different! I've almost no knowledge >on HP Basic, but on HP Pascal, there is a list of supported display >options (this list has been extended with every new release); do you >have any information, which display emulation is used on the card ? No I don't. I have virtually no written documentation of any kind on the Viper cards. However the system that I'm using is a HP Vectra 386/25 with an early HP VGA card. The HyperViper came in it from HP and it works fine in that system. I have some other older HP Vectras with 286/8 CPUs that came with Viper cards. They have video cards with the monochrome/CGA/EGA type connector. I don't know if the card is monochrome, CGA or EGA. I don't have any of those monitors so I never bothered to figure out what the cards were. (I just stick in any old VGA card when I test those systems.) However I assume that the Viper cards works in one or more of those modes. The operating system for the Viper is something called RMB/DOS BASIC so I'm sure that it's heavily modified for use with the Viper cards. BTW there was a HP Viper card on E-bay recently. The auction closed with no bids. I thought about buying it but it was a B card and I haven't figured out how to make them work, yet! If you're interested I can give you the URL and you can contact the seller and see if he still has it. Joe > >Thanks Bernd > > > > > From gerold.pauler at gmx.net Sun Apr 25 12:59:03 2004 From: gerold.pauler at gmx.net (Gerold Pauler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Teletype re-assembly... References: Message-ID: <408BFC67.7080904@gmx.net> David V. Corbin schrieb: > OK, I admit it...I am so confused... it's easy to become confused with teletypes ;-) > I have all of the documentation (I believe) is available from PDP8.net. A fine starting point. > I have carefully checked it out mechanically and (non-powered) electrically > as best as I am able. The only question on this fromnt is one switch which > appears to be out of position, but I can > Not find a reference picture > http://www.dynamicconcepts.us/Teletype/Switch1.JPG Yes it is out of position. Compare with "Figure 5 - Typing Unit" on Page 8 SECTION 574-122-702TC. You can see the correct position in the FORM-OUT MECHANISM area. The contacts are the INTERLOCK CONTACTS used for stopping the papertape reader while doing a formfeed. (Only used in sprocket feed assemblies). > What I can not seem to find the documentation for is the interconnection of > the various Molex connectors: > http://www.dynamicconcepts.us/Teletype/Cables1.JPG You can get a pdf file from my website showing the wiring diagram for an ASR33. This IMHO gives the best overview about the Molex connectors. It is located at http://pdp8.de/download/A3_KC5018.pdf Hope this helps Gerold From gerold.pauler at gmx.net Sun Apr 25 13:06:39 2004 From: gerold.pauler at gmx.net (Gerold Pauler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Teletype re-assembly... References: <408BFC67.7080904@gmx.net> Message-ID: <408BFE2F.4040106@gmx.net> Just an add on cause I forgot to mention: Figure 32 on page 37 of SECTION 574-122-100TC also shows the INTERLOCK CONTACTS. The description is on page 39 SECTION 574-122-100TC paragraph 4.105. Gerold From vcf at siconic.com Sun Apr 25 16:35:53 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: IBM serial number query Message-ID: Someone contacted me and said they have an IBM PC that he was told was the 35th off the assembly line. The serial number he gave me off the unit is 0205544. He also gave me a number he found inside the chassic which is IBM1800841. He said the motherboard has been upgraded to 64K. I don't know if he meant it was upgraded to the 64-256K motherboard or if the RAM sockets on the original 16-64K motherboard were populated. Can anyone shed any light on the serial number(s)? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Apr 25 18:17:13 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: BASICON MC-1N? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040425231713.GA26914@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Apr 25, 2004 at 03:21:14PM +0100, Davison, Lee wrote: > > I've tried building a circuit to manually dump the PROM (it's > > only 32x8), but no success there - all the bits read '0', > > You do know the 74S188 is open collector outputs? You'll need > pullups or the data will always read '0' I did figure that out last night - I've started manually dumping the ROM. It's a pain fiddling around five jumper wires on a breadboard - I took a break after about 8 readings, but I did deduce the locations of the clock chip and the PPI. There also seems to be an unused second RAM chip select (not routed anywhere, nor pulled up)... The memory map seems to be: $0000-$0FFF not mapped (INS8073 internal ROM space) $1000-$17FF 2K SRAM (6116) $1800-$1FFF 2K alt SRAM (not in this circuit) $2000-$7FFF empty $8000-$8FFF 2K or 4K (ext. jumper) EPROM 2716 or 2732 $9000-$A7FF empty $A800-$AFFF MM58174A clock/calendar $B000-$B7FF empty $B800-$BFFF 8255 PPI $C000-$F7FF empty $F800-$FFFF* Baud Rate Jumpers * - internal RAM also mapped into this space, but those address don't seem to get presented to the external circuitry I wish there were a device programmer on station. I didn't think it was worth shipping an extra 20lbs both ways, so I didn't send mine down. I don't have any blank 78S188s anyway, but I don't see why I couldn't remove the pullups and use a suitably programmed GAL 16V8. Shouldn't take long to write up some simple equations for that, then I could put a 32K SRAM in a socket adapter and run the extra address lines to it... I do appreciate the tip, though. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 25-Apr-2004 23:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -59.1 F (-50.6 C) Windchill -120.7 F (-84.90 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 16.2 kts Grid 346 Barometer 687.7 mb (10337. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From allain at panix.com Sun Apr 25 19:20:46 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Making the decision to specialize on a particular classic References: Message-ID: <005201c42b24$5238fce0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Other reasons for keeping more than 1 of a machine : > You're setting up a network of them. This particularly > applies if they have non-standard network hardware... Network to do what? If it's to learn some new protocol then you could use the main and the spare and be set. John A. From allain at panix.com Sun Apr 25 19:21:30 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Nearly on topic-ish. Digital HiNote VP laptop References: Message-ID: <005301c42b24$6cce6860$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I hope this only applies to modern PC-clones.... Anything Minicomputer and the list would hear about it. Yes, This is PC class, basically the only computers I find for free. I almost did the 30 minute-out rule on a $5 IBM-PC luggable. It was partially dissasembled inside when I got it, so no responses. Then I discovered the neat tiny standard monitor that they have. That saved it, it was repairable, and Now I have three. > Heck, the last HP67 calcultor to cross my bench took me 15 > hours to sort out.... Tony If I had something broken that you wanted I think I'd almost postpay it over to you, as a thanks. John A. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Apr 25 19:31:46 2004 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Hawley Mouse? In-Reply-To: <00f601c3dae5$ef441bd0$1a02a8c0@starship1> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040425173048.035114d0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 04:32 PM 1/14/04 -0500, Curt vendel wrote: >Anyone have a non-DEC'd version of a Hawley mouse for sale/trade? I have a couple, but both say Digital. Haven't seen any others, what would they be? From gamma at mail.student.oulu.fi Fri Apr 23 06:52:17 2004 From: gamma at mail.student.oulu.fi (Jouni Antero Metso) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: TU 58 rubber rollers Message-ID: <200404231152.i3NBqHfU024138@paju.oulu.fi> Hello, I was just wondering, if you know where I could find TU58 rubber rollers. I know one VAX 11/730 in our university's cellar, that could hardly boot because of worn rollers. I could perhaps repair it' if I had the rollers. /Antero From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Fri Apr 23 09:17:06 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Nearly on topic-ish. Digital HiNote VP laptop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040423101255.022df298@24.161.37.215> Not offhand, but I have come across a number of laptops with proprietary batteries of all sorts in them. One (an old compaq I believe) had 2 batteries in it besides the main power cell for the whole laptop. One was for the CMOS and the other was for some other weird implementation (all I do remember was that if the extra one was unplugged, the machine wouldn't boot right after passing the BIOS). If you want, I have access to Allied Electronics, Newark Electronics (Now NewarkOne) and Mouser. Possibly one of them have replacement batteries/cells for your unit. For a description with any info possible and an image or two, I can look it up for you and get you in touch with the appropriate source. -John Boffemmyer IV At 09:48 AM 4/23/2004, you wrote: >Folks, > >Discovered I had said old machine in storage the other day and I thought >it'd make a neat little webserver for when I'm away from home working and >will have nothing better to do than PHP hacking. > >First time I powered up it sprang to life but locked up because the CMOS >battery (non-standard dammit) is obviously flat. Subsequent powerups with or >without battery installed (you can replace the floppy drive with a dedicated >AC input) result in a beep and pretty much nothing else. > >Anyone come across these wee beasties before? Aside from when they were new, >obviously :o) > >cheers > >-- >Adrian/Witchy >Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs >www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum >www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From terry.parfett at amsjv.com Fri Apr 23 10:32:39 2004 From: terry.parfett at amsjv.com (Parfett, Terry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: LSI11 Processor? Message-ID: Hi Ron - do you have an LSI11 Processor board type M7264 that needs a good home? Terry Parfett (UK) ******************************************************************** This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. ******************************************************************** From peter.brokenshire at siemag-inc.com Fri Apr 23 13:40:20 2004 From: peter.brokenshire at siemag-inc.com (Peter Brokenshire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: HP 9121 Dual disl drive Message-ID: <398A83820BA2D311ACAF009027DC79DE11ABD5@SBS> Dear Pat, Do you still have this drive? If so please let me know. Thanks, Peter From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Fri Apr 23 14:25:50 2004 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Apr 23, 2004 09:30:02 AM Message-ID: <200404231925.i3NJPpTp006421@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> >> Except for the fact that it's chock full of errors. If you >> read it with a grain of salt, yes, it's very entertaining and >> still has a lot of nice info. It has a good story like >> presentation as opposed to a more "here's the facts approach" >> like Leonard Herman's Phoenix. I talked to Steve Kent about >> corrections, updates, etc. He mentioned the publisher owns >> the rights now, and he has no way to update it. > >That's weird, 'cos I spoke to Al Alcorn about it and he told me this: > >"The Steve Kent book is the most accurate source of history that I know of. >He was tireless in getting his facts straight." > >Not that tireless then? > >Cheers > Tireless and factual are two different things. Steve's a nice guy and put a lot of his own money in to travel for interviews and research. However, he didn't have the background to do fact checking and relied on others for the proofreading. Some of the errors off the top of my head: He mentions the Fairchild Channel F was released in '76, while it was actualy the Video Entertainment System (VES) and not actualy changed to Channel F until a year later after the relase of the Atari VCS. Did you leave that out on purpose for flow? Also, the chronology for the Stella section is bit off to me from my resources (which include extensive interviews with Joe Decuir). He promotes the Stella name (Joe's bike) but mentions that way before Joe's introduction to the team. Likewise, the chip used was a modification of the 6502 called the 6507 - the entire console project itself was called Stella, not the chip. The name was brought in when Joe (who was working as a liason between Grass Valey and Consumer) had to pick a password for his mainframe account and chose the name of the bike. Someone found out and it eventually started sticking as the name of the project itself (which was already in debugging stage by the time Joe came on). He also mentions Don Valentine was the major investor in Apple, when it was Mike Markkula. Valentine declined initially (changed his mind later) but passed it on to Markkula. (When I mentioned this to Steve he didn't know much about Markkula or his involvement with Apple, because he only interviewed Valentine). Also there's the Vectrex section, which is completely wrong. His assertion that the story regarding the the 9" monitors is untrue, is an interesting one (by the way, I had never heard that version of it before). The problem is that it fails to take in to account that GCE did not develop the Vectrex console - Western Technologies/Smith Engineering did. And in fact, the Vectrex (originally called the Mini-Arcade) was created by Mike Purvis and John Ross in early 1981 at WT/SE after trying to come up with a way to use a 1" CRT that Ross had picked up at the time from a local surplus store. WT/SE first licensed the "Home Arcade" to Kenner in the Spring of '81, and the screen was moved to a 5" CRT, but Kenner decided to pull out by July. How Ed Krakauer comes in to this, is he saw the concept and early workings when WT/SE shopped it to GCE and decided it was a potential goldmine. Consequently GCE licensed the system in September of '81. And while he states "GCE used revenues from the lucrative handheld games...to develop a console", the truth is that while they had input in to the development after they licensed it (GCE had suggested the move to a 9" screen) they did not develop it. Likewise, WT/SE designed and licensed the game watches to GCE as well. As Bill Hawkins stated in a keynote address, GCE was a startup created to sell itself, which it eventually did to MB. Secondly, GCE did market and sell the Vectrex system on their own for several months (November '82-March '83). The Milton Bradley buyout occured in March of '83 after (as is also quoted in the passage by Hope Neiman), they felt they "missed the boat" and wanted to aquire a company that would allow them to enter in to video games quickly. As collectors all know, there is a difference in pre-MB Vectrex labeling. Thirdly, MB did not show the Vectrex at the Winter CES '82 show. The prototype system first debuted at the Summer '82 CES (you can see pictures of the proto at the keynote address article listed below). MB didn't buy GCE until March of '83 (negotiations began in late '82) and then disbanded it completely by that summer to manufacture and release the Vectrex on it's own. It was finally phased out completely in March of '84 and all rights to the manufacture/marketing/ etc. of the Vectrex were returned to WT/SE. In the 90's, WT/SE (which is still around) released all the game roms, overlays, etc. to the public for non-commercial reproduction and use. If you're interested in sources, feel free to check out the Classic Gaming Expo 2000 Vectrex Keynote Address by Tom Sloper (if Tom sounds familiar, it's because he was in charge of the 2600 Jr. and 7800 at Atari Corp. and was at the helm of Activision for almost 15 years) and Bill Hawkins, two of the original programmers for the Vectrex: http://www.classicgaming.com/features/cgexpo2000/vectrexkeynote/ also: The 1999 Vectrex Keynote by Jay Smith, Tom Sloper, Patrick King, and Michael Cartabiano. This page has the actual recordings of the speeches in RealPlayer format (the first one, Jay Smith's, is the one most applicable to this discussion): http://www.classicgaming.com/vectrex/po_cge.htm Fourth, the passage "This scheme might have come across as completely ridiculous had Cinematronics not use a similar scheme to add color to the arcade version of star castle a few years earlyer". That passage seems to assert that Cinematronics was the first arcade game to use colored overlays. However, it was a very very common coin-op technique in the 70's. Before the move to color generating hardware with Namco's Galaxian in 1979 (the first color raster coin-op), just about all coin-ops used some form of colored overlays (sometimes just cellophane strips as in the case of Atari's Breakout) to add color. Furthermore, while he does mention Sega's 3D glasses later in the book, he didn't mention Vectrex's color 3D glasses (they actually added color to the Vectrex without the need for overlays). These were the first 3D glasses for any console. In fact, Sega had run an ad for a time claiming they were the first and were forced to pull it. Regarding the Tramiel buyout, there's a lot of problems as well. Just glancing, here's a passage - "On January 10th, 1984, the board had met to discuss the company's future. Tramiel went to the meeting planning to unveil his dream of brining his sons together to run Commodore. He wanted to name his oldest son, Sam, as president. He wanted his next oldest, Gary, to run the company's finances, and his youngest son, Leonard, who had just earned his Ph.D. from Columbia, to work in Commodore's software division. Gould had other ideas. He wanted Marshall Smith, a 54 year old finance specialist from the steel industry to take over the company. According to one report, Tramiel threatened to quit the company, and Gould said, "Fine." On Friday, January 13, 1984, Jack Tramiel officially resigned as the CEO of Commodore International." None of that makes any sense. Commodore was a public company and Jack owned only about 10% of the stock. He didn't think of it as "his". Sam was working for Commodore in early 1984 but nowhere near the president level. Garry (note it is spelled with two 'r's) was quite happy as a stock broker and he didn't want to work at Commodore and he was never CFO of Atari so there was clearly no plan for that in either company. Leonard is not the youngest son, Garry is. He didn't get his Ph.D. until May of '84. Jack resigned before the board meeting due to a disagreement that he and Irving Gould had during a discussion at CES in Las Vegas. Jack asked asked Leonard about joining him after he decided to get back into business. This was before Atari was bought and even before he formed TTL. Also from the book: "In the beginning, Atari Corporation and Atari Games were headquartered in adjoining buildings, and the people working in the newly independent coin-op company silently watched as the former associates were demolished." "I sat there and watched Atari go from 5,000 people in 25 buildings back down to like 200 in coin-op, 200 in consumer in three of for buildings. It was the Tramiel fire sale of Atari. It was an interesting split. He [Tramiel] had control of his side for probably a day or two before he realized that we were two different companies. Our buildings had connecting door and they decided to seal them up. It became a very "us and them" kind of atmosphere, which was too bad. I hated watching the consumer people have to go through interviews because it was a bloodbath. I was happy to be at coin-op. -Kelly Turner" This is wrong. The coin-op division was in Milpitas across 6 locations (715 Sycamore Drive (#201), 735 Sycamore Drive (#202), 790 Sycamore Drive (#209), 1501 McCarthy Boulevard (#210), 675 Sycamore Drive (#226), 765 Sycamore Drive (#227)). The only thing Atari Corp. took over in Milpitas was the computer warehouse at 601 Vista Way (#219), which was nowhere near any of the coin-op buildings. Feel free to look it up on Mapquest. Also, as Leonard mentioned to me - "The "us and them" atmosphere existed long before the companies split. Yes, it was a blood-bath. It was really hard to fire around 1000 people. I feel bad about to this day. It was the right thing to do and the generous Warner lay-off package even had some people cheering the decision to be laid off but it was still hard to do." It also seems to gloss over over the 6000+ people Atari had fired months before the sale, but dwells on the Tramiel's layoff of 1500. The following passage in that part of the book (also attributed to Kelly) is also incorrect: "Everyone was expected something draconian to happen. When they [the Tramiels] first walked in the building, someone got on the PA system and line from The Eppire Strikes Back. I think it went, "Attention, Imperial strom troops have entered the base." This actually happened in a completely different setting and happenstance. Again, there was no adjoining building, it was not when they "first walked in" and it wasn't even Jack. This happened sometime after they settled in and were evaluating who they wanted to keep, what projects would stay, etc. Leonard and another person from Atari Corp. went to Milpitas to the coin-op building to interview the programmers. One of them did get on the PA and announce: "Imperial Storm troopers have entered the building." He and the other Atari Corp. person could barely hear it from the lobby. After a few weeks the guy that did it told them about it. As Leonard said it to me: "He was (obviously) one of the guys we hired and he was one of the most valuable employees that we had. A brilliant programmer, a hard working, self motivated, helpful, honest employee that I can't say enough good things about." Again, this is all just stuff from glancing through and recalling off the top of my head. The book is full of problems like this, and what Al was most likely refering to was Steve's attempt to get as much behind the scenes stories as possible. He certainly accomplished that, and the book does have a lot of good behind the scenes stories in each era it talks about (including the early Atari era thanks to Al and Steve Bristow). But as a factual reference, it's lacking. As I said, read it with a grain of salt and just enjoy it as a "good read". Marty From Tdolbeer at countrymark.com Fri Apr 23 14:27:34 2004 From: Tdolbeer at countrymark.com (Todd Dolbeer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: B&C Software Message-ID: Found a message from you from last year that indicated you have software for a B&C Microsystems UP200. If it is any newer than the version 1.0i DOS software I have for it, I'd certainly appreicate a copy. Thanks! Todd From bill_mcdermith at mcdermith.net Sat Apr 24 14:03:45 2004 From: bill_mcdermith at mcdermith.net (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: HP 64000 with 80186 emulator? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040424082049.00837100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <20040424041612.84855.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> <20040424041612.84855.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20040424082049.00837100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <408ABA11.8080206@mcdermith.net> Joe R. wrote: > > The ones that I've seen with the tape drives are marked 64000. The ones > with the two floppy disks were marked 64100 and the large "portable" one > were marked 64110. The portable version is built like an oversize (and > overweight!) Kaypro. > Thanks for the clarification. We always called the benchtop units "crocks" and the "portable" ones Orions, and I didn't pay too much attention to the part numbers... >>(Bill McDermith) >>The whole idea was to put several 64000s on >>one "large" disk drive using the HP-IB port on >>the back. The resulting arrangement was called >>a "cluster" in the HP manuals. > > I've seen that shown in some of the manuals but I suspect that they > would require the use of some kind of SRM (Shared Resource Manager) software. No extra software needed, as the system tape software would load onto the cluster drive, and all the crocks would share the one disk, both for file storage and to boot the the OS... > You'd have a lot better luck finding a 7957, 7958 or 7959. They're a lot > smaller, newer and more reliable. I've NEVER found one of the large 79xx > drives that was still working. The 7957, 7958 and 7959 are roughly 80 Mb, > 150 Mb and 300 Mb capacity. If you only need 15, 20 or 40 Mb then you can > probably use a 9133, 9134, 9153 or something of that type. 20 Mb doesn't > sound like much but it's more than enough for most of the old HP computers. > I have a 80 Mb 7958 attached to my HP Integral and I've installed every > piece of software that was ever available for the IPC and I've only used a > fraction of the drive. You're correct, I did find a 7957 on e-bay not long ago. I would be surprised if you could find a 7920/25 cheaply, though it seems that some of the HP houses that handle 1000 series CPUs also have some of these around for a small fortune... You're also right about the software size; once the system was loaded a 7920 had tons of room left for development files. I know that early on the 91xx drives didn't work, but there may have been later mods to the 64000 to allow them. > > Hint. If you're considering the purchase of any of these HP drives, plug > it in first and power it up without connecting it to a system. The newer > ones have built-in self test and thry will run for about a minute and test > the drive. If the fault light comes on and stays on then the drive is bad > so don't buy it. Some of the early ones have a 2 character display on the > back. If they pass selftest it will show P and the HP-IB code (2 for > example). If they say F something then they failed self test. ALSO on some > (or all?) models powering them up >>with no system attached<< will cause > them to park the heads. That's another reason that I always power them up > before purchasing and moving them. Good advice... > I believe I gave some to Frank a couple of years ago but the biggest > problem is going to be finding a good tape drive. If somebody is serious > about these they should fix one of the tape drives then connect a external > floppy drive and dump the tapes to a^H MULTIPLE floppy disk. Or even as binary files on a PC or some other machine that could be exchanged, analyzed, and used to generate floppies (or whatever...) > > Joe > Bill From wmaddox at pacbell.net Mon Apr 26 04:10:14 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Hawley Mouse? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040425173048.035114d0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040426091014.74396.qmail@web80506.mail.yahoo.com> Xerox Alto, Symbolics LM-2, 3600? --Bill --- Mike Ford wrote: > At 04:32 PM 1/14/04 -0500, Curt vendel wrote: > >Anyone have a non-DEC'd version of a Hawley mouse > for sale/trade? > > > I have a couple, but both say Digital. Haven't seen > any others, what would > they be? > > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Apr 26 07:29:27 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx update Message-ID: Folks, Left my IIfx with both batteries out for 3 1/2 days and I still get no signs of life. I know the keyboard's OK as it powers up my IIci. Any thoughts on what else might die over a couple of years non-use? cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From GOOI at oce.nl Mon Apr 26 07:38:50 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Blinkenlights for everybody -- follow-up (1) Message-ID: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102B65@gd-mail03.oce.nl> Hello All, I have updated the "homebrew PDP-11" page on my website and added a page called "Action!". You can download the latest software and see the Real Console in action in 4 mpeg files. So far, I have received interest to make 10 sets ... if you're not sure what you can do with these boards, here are a few more possibilities. - You can use one output port or, say 6 bits, to drive an anlogue meter via an R/2R network (simple DAC). - Same on the input side : connect a potentiometer via a DAC. - A substitute for defective logic! One example : remove the (defective) boards from the card reader (DEC aka Documation M200) and replace it with a single Core and I/O board (+ software...) - Interface a peripheral. One person was thinking of connecting an IDE drive to in/out ports and access it under program control (no DMA). - anything you wanted to give simple intelligence !!!! Updates to the hardware design are in progress, lifting the design limit of a maximum of 2 I/O Boards to the very comfortable (theoretical) 8 I/O boards. The limit is the number of octal latches that you can connect to the buffer IC -74245 in the datapath to the I/O Boards. So, there is almost no limit to drive a large console, for example the PDP-8i (over 80 lamps), the IBM S3 .... I will keep the list posted! - Henk, PA8PDP. From dave04a at dunfield.com Mon Apr 26 08:59:21 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Tapeless Adam ? Message-ID: <200404261359.i3QDxLdl006697@huey.classiccmp.org> Found a Coleco Adam on the weekend. It's a bit odd in that it has NO tape drives. It does not look as if one was removed - there are filler plates in both tape compartments which look original. System works - powers up in the Adam work processor, you can enter text and print it, but obviously there's no way to save. So it's essentially a storageless word processor. Every other Adam I've seen has at least one Tape unit, and all references I've located on the web list it as coming with one tape unit as standard equipment. Anyone know if there were any variations of the Adam which were sold without any tape units at all? Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From brad at heeltoe.com Mon Apr 26 08:55:54 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Digital RK05J In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 24 Apr 2004 13:49:58 PDT." <20040424204958.98665.qmail@web60705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200404261355.i3QDts107180@mwave.heeltoe.com> I'm sure they're all gone, but if not, where are they? -brad SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: >A photo is available at > >http://www.geocities.com/MSCPSCSI/PHOTOS/09-125-398.jpg > >have fun >vax, 3900 > >--- SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: >> There are two in the bench and two have already >> claimed them :) I need to ask them on Monday whether >> they want to seperately sell the RK05j's. Other >> things >> in it are non-DEC. I forgot who made them. I could >> let >> you know after I take another look. >> >> vax, 3900 >> >> >> --- Ashley Carder wrote: >> > I'm interested too, but David spoke first. What >> > else in in the test bench? >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >> > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of >> > David V. Corbin >> > Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 10:58 AM >> > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic >> > Posts' >> > Subject: RE: Digital RK05J >> > Importance: High >> > >> > >> > DEFINITELY INTERESTED! >> > >> > Whare are you (actually the stuff) located? >> > >> > Please contact me off-list >> > >> > David V. Corbin >> > david@dynamicconcepts.us >> > 631-244-8487 >> > >> > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- >> > >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >> > >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On >> Behalf >> > Of SHAUN RIPLEY >> > >>> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 9:59 AM >> > >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> > >>> Subject: Digital RK05J >> > >>> >> > >>> Does somebody want one? I found one in a >> > warehouse that is >> > >>> used in a big digital test bench. They ask >> > >>> $299 for the whole bench (maybe 1000 LB) but I >> > can ask them >> > >>> whether I can pull the RK05j and buy that >> only. >> > I ask $10 >> > >>> handling fee only. Thank you! >> > >>> >> > >>> vax, 3900 >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> __________________________________ >> > >>> Do you Yahoo!? >> > >>> Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints >> > for 25" >> > >>> http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> __________________________________ >> Do you Yahoo!? >> Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for >> 25„1¤7> http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ >http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash > From brad at heeltoe.com Mon Apr 26 08:59:05 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: TU 58 rubber rollers In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:52:17 +0300." <200404231152.i3NBqHfU024138@paju.oulu.fi> Message-ID: <200404261359.i3QDx5907324@mwave.heeltoe.com> Jouni Antero Metso wrote: >Hello, > >I was just wondering, if you know where I could find TU58 rubber >rollers. I know one VAX 11/730 in our university's cellar, that >could hardly boot because of worn rollers. I could perhaps repair >it' if I had the rollers. I would replace the tu58 with a laptop running linux and the the tu-58 emulator. That's what I do with my 730. Works great. -brad From KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com Mon Apr 26 09:07:41 2004 From: KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com (Van Mersbergen, Ken) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Tapeless Adam ? Message-ID: Dave- Doubtful, looks like someone just pulled the drive and replaced it with a "dummy" eColeco sells ADAM units like this as just a game console. -Ken V. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Dunfield [mailto:dave04a@dunfield.com] Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 8:59 AM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Tapeless Adam ? Found a Coleco Adam on the weekend. It's a bit odd in that it has NO tape drives. It does not look as if one was removed - there are filler plates in both tape compartments which look original. System works - powers up in the Adam work processor, you can enter text and print it, but obviously there's no way to save. So it's essentially a storageless word processor. Every other Adam I've seen has at least one Tape unit, and all references I've located on the web list it as coming with one tape unit as standard equipment. Anyone know if there were any variations of the Adam which were sold without any tape units at all? Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html *************************************************************** This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. *************************************************************** From brad at heeltoe.com Mon Apr 26 09:09:38 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Time article about Jobs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:25:50 CDT." <200404231925.i3NJPpTp006421@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> Message-ID: <200404261409.i3QE9cw07439@mwave.heeltoe.com> Martin Scott Goldberg wrote: ... >because he was in charge of the 2600 Jr. and 7800 at Atari Corp. and was >at the helm of Activision for almost 15 years) and Bill Hawkins, two The 7800 was designed in Cambridge, MA by General Computer Corp, which was essentially a "captive r&d" group for Atari. They did about 90% of the 2600 carts which atari put out. (I worked there but I was in the coin-op group and only watched from afar :-) -brad From cb at mythtech.net Mon Apr 26 09:23:07 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:06 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx update Message-ID: >Left my IIfx with both batteries out for 3 1/2 days and I still get no signs >of life. I know the keyboard's OK as it powers up my IIci. > >Any thoughts on what else might die over a couple of years non-use? Does the power supply show any signs of life when you try to turn it on? Also, did you try the power switch directly on the computer. -chris From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Apr 26 09:33:41 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of chris > Sent: 26 April 2004 15:23 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Mac IIfx update > > Does the power supply show any signs of life when you try to > turn it on? > Also, did you try the power switch directly on the computer. Yeah, switch on the back, 2 different keyboards, with and without drive shelf in place, with known good batteries from my IIcx and IIci and with the batteries I bought for it back when I got the machine. 3 different video cards too, just in case it won't power up with a bad video board in.....mains lead is good 'cos it's the same one I used to check the other 2 macs. I even tried facing west :) No signs of life from the PSU but there normally isn't until powerup and the LED lights up. Cheers! -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From cb at mythtech.net Mon Apr 26 09:58:22 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx update Message-ID: >No signs of life from the PSU but there normally isn't until powerup and the >LED lights up. Usually the vent fan will start spinning right away. If the fan doesn't even jerk, then the PS may not be doing anything. I've used that to track problems in some macs before (Mac PSs tend to be "short resistant", at least that is what I've found. If there is a short somewhere, the PS will power itself back off rather than fry itself... in those cases, the fan usually jerks as the PS comes on and cycles right back off) It is starting to sound like the PS is dead. There are no additional troubleshooting steps listed in the Apple tech manual for the IIfx (actually, there are no troubleshooting steps at ALL in that manual). -chris From anheier at owt.com Mon Apr 26 10:11:13 2004 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm and Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: More DEC boards available Message-ID: I have the following DEC board for sale (best offer) or trade. They are all in reasonable shape, but are not guaranteed functional. M7521 AA - ETHERNET L UNIBUS (2) M7486 - UDA50 CONTROLLER MODULE M7485-YA -M7485 W/ BLSTD RMS 4 LYR UDA50 (2) M8750-CJ- MEMORY (2) M7199-AF- MS750-J 4 MB MEMORY, HEX L0002-DATAPATH & MICROQUENCER (2) ComDesign -#010231- (?) Thanks Norm From ikvsabre at comcast.net Mon Apr 26 10:12:22 2004 From: ikvsabre at comcast.net (Joseph Stevenson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx update References: Message-ID: <001301c42ba0$e0e2faf0$3714320a@njserve.aseco.net> If you have a voltmeter/multimeter, check that the PS is providing power. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Witchy" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 10:33 AM Subject: RE: Mac IIfx update > No signs of life from the PSU but there normally isn't until powerup and the > LED lights up. > > Cheers! > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Apr 26 10:25:02 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx update In-Reply-To: <001301c42ba0$e0e2faf0$3714320a@njserve.aseco.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Joseph Stevenson > Sent: 26 April 2004 16:12 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only > Subject: Re: Mac IIfx update > > If you have a voltmeter/multimeter, check that the PS is > providing power. > I've not found the pinout for the motherboard power plug - have you got one there? Cheers, -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Apr 26 10:35:37 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of chris > Sent: 26 April 2004 15:58 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: Mac IIfx update > > Usually the vent fan will start spinning right away. If the > fan doesn't even jerk, then the PS may not be doing anything. No jerk, but I've already swapped the PSU with one from another Mac II and got similar results, though I guess it's entirely possible that one's toast as well. Nothing obviously physically wrong with the PSU though, no bulging caps etc. Was there a common cause of death for them? > It is starting to sound like the PS is dead. > > There are no additional troubleshooting steps listed in the > Apple tech manual for the IIfx (actually, there are no > troubleshooting steps at ALL in that manual). That's helpful of them :) Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From cb at mythtech.net Mon Apr 26 11:08:42 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx update Message-ID: >No jerk, but I've already swapped the PSU with one from another Mac II and >got similar results, though I guess it's entirely possible that one's toast >as well. Nothing obviously physically wrong with the PSU though, no bulging >caps etc. Was there a common cause of death for them? It would seem odd that two supplies would be dead. Another thought. Is the ROM simm installed? The IIfx requires it. IIRC, when I had someone pull the ROM simm from a IIsi, the machine failed to power on without the simm installed. So maybe the ROM simm is missing. Also, if the simm is in place, there may be a jumper to tell the Mac to look for the simm. Look for a jumper marked W1. If it is on, the Mac will NOT look for a simm, if it is off, the mac WILL look for a simm. The IIfx requires a ROM simm, so the jumper should be off and the simm installed. (the jumper info is as per the macfaq.org web site, I've no personal experience with the jumper issue, and I don't know if the person that tested the IIsi for me knew about the jumper or not). >That's helpful of them :) Its a 2.7 MB PDF, I'd be happy to send it over to you so you can see for yourself just how UN-helpful the thing is (some of the tech manuals are great, others leave much to be desired) :-) -chris From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Apr 26 11:32:18 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of chris > Sent: 26 April 2004 17:09 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: Mac IIfx update > > It would seem odd that two supplies would be dead. :-/ > Another thought. Is the ROM simm installed? The IIfx requires > it. IIRC, when I had someone pull the ROM simm from a IIsi, > the machine failed to power on without the simm installed. So > maybe the ROM simm is missing. Noo, it's there and I've even cleaned its contacts. > it is on, the Mac will NOT look for a simm, if it is off, the > mac WILL look for a simm. The IIfx requires a ROM simm, so > the jumper should be off and the simm installed. Nobody's touched it since I last powered it up so what was in place before should still be in place..... > Its a 2.7 MB PDF, I'd be happy to send it over to you so you > can see for yourself just how UN-helpful the thing is (some > of the tech manuals are great, others leave much to be desired) :-) No ta, I think I can do without its unhelpfulness ;) Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From dave04a at dunfield.com Mon Apr 26 11:54:26 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: Tapeless Adam ? Message-ID: <200404261654.i3QGsQdl008213@huey.classiccmp.org> >>Found a Coleco Adam on the weekend. >>It's a bit odd in that it has NO tape drives. It does not >>look as if one was removed - there are filler plates in both >>tape compartments which look original. >>Anyone know if there were any variations of the Adam which were >>sold without any tape units at all? >Doubtful, looks like someone just pulled the drive and replaced it with a >"dummy" Thats kinda what I'm guessing, however it *looks* factory - no signs of prying, scraping and other giveaways that tell you it was modified. >eColeco sells ADAM units like this as just a game console. Curious - are these "game consoles with a printer", or do they have some other means of powering them (the Adam is powered by the printer). Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From classiccmp.org at parkerpress.com Mon Apr 26 11:42:24 2004 From: classiccmp.org at parkerpress.com (Steve Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: Macintosh LC-II, SE-30 and Macworld backissues Message-ID: Hi there, I have a Mac LC-II (with monitor), an SE-30, and every issue of MacWorld/MacUser from the first issue through about 2002 sitting in my basement in the Denver metro area. I'm offering the computers to anybody who wants them Ffor the price of shipping, if you want them sent) and whatever you think they're worth. First come, first served... As for the magazines, I tried to donate them to our library, but they say they don't want them. If you want them AND can come pick them up (believe me, you to NOT want to pay shipping costs!), they're yours. Send me a message directly (not via this list) by Friday, 4/30/04. If nobody replies, they're going to the recycle center on 5/1/04. Steve -- Steve Parker O- Steve ParkerPress com (you know where the @ and the . go) Disclaimer - These opiini^H^H damn!^H^H ^Q^[ .... :w :q :wq :wq! ^d X ^? exit X Q ^C ^? :quitbye CtrlAltDel ~~q :~q logout save/quit :!QUIT ^[zz ^[ZZZZZZ ^H man vi ^ ^L ^[c ^# ^E^X^I^T ? help helpquit ^D ^d man help ^C ^c help exit ?Quit?qCtrlAltDel"Hey, what's this button d..." From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Apr 26 11:46:21 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: More DEC boards available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Norm, > M7521 AA - ETHERNET L UNIBUS > (2) M7486 - UDA50 CONTROLLER MODULE > M7485-YA -M7485 W/ BLSTD RMS 4 LYR UDA50 > (2) M8750-CJ- MEMORY > (2) M7199-AF- MS750-J 4 MB MEMORY, HEX > L0002-DATAPATH & MICROQUENCER > (2) ComDesign -#010231- (?) This is a nice gift for one of my friends who has an 11/750.. what do you want for them together? I am currently in the U.S., so shipping will be easy! :) --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com Mon Apr 26 11:53:31 2004 From: KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com (Van Mersbergen, Ken) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: Tapeless Adam ? Message-ID: eColeco sells it for $30 without tape drive, keyboard, printer or controllers. R80 CPU with place for two Datadrive tape units to boot Tape Software and SuperGames, and save or load files on blank Digital Datapack tapes. Play Coleco Game Cartridges (virtually indestructible plastic plug-in software on MicroChips) using Game Controllers (two 9 pin ports available). Separate Game and Computer Reset Switches. Expandable console features three card slots under the top access cover (internal Modem or serial card, Aux Dot Matrix Printer Card, Expansion Memory Cards from 64K to 256K, and Hard Disk Drive interface Cards), plus external card slot on the right end, and disk drive port on the left end for a single cable connection to add a floppy disk drive (320K to 1.44 Megabyte Capacity). Other connectors: RF (TV) output, Monitor (Video) output, and combination Audio/Video output to a composite input monitor or TV equipped with A/V inputs. 5% handling and ground U.S.A. shipping is $14. 30 day warranty. # 182 LIMITED QUANTITIES They also sell stand alone power supplies for the ADAM console. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Dunfield [mailto:dave04a@dunfield.com] Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 11:54 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Tapeless Adam ? >>Found a Coleco Adam on the weekend. >>It's a bit odd in that it has NO tape drives. It does not >>look as if one was removed - there are filler plates in both >>tape compartments which look original. >>Anyone know if there were any variations of the Adam which were >>sold without any tape units at all? >Doubtful, looks like someone just pulled the drive and replaced it with a >"dummy" Thats kinda what I'm guessing, however it *looks* factory - no signs of prying, scraping and other giveaways that tell you it was modified. >eColeco sells ADAM units like this as just a game console. Curious - are these "game consoles with a printer", or do they have some other means of powering them (the Adam is powered by the printer). Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html *************************************************************** This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. *************************************************************** From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Apr 26 11:52:58 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: More DEC boards available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, > Norm, That obviously was supposed to be an off-list reply :) --f From brianmahoney at look.ca Mon Apr 26 12:44:23 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: Tapeless Adam ? References: Message-ID: <000701c42bb6$2ee4b800$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Van Mersbergen, Ken" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 12:53 PM Subject: RE: Tapeless Adam ? > eColeco sells it for $30 without tape drive, keyboard, printer or > controllers. > > R80 CPU with place for two Datadrive tape units to boot Tape Software and > SuperGames, and save or load files on blank Digital Datapack tapes. Play > Coleco Game Cartridges (virtually indestructible plastic plug-in software on > MicroChips) using Game Controllers (two 9 pin ports available). Separate > Game and Computer Reset Switches. Expandable console features three card > slots under the top access cover (internal Modem or serial card, Aux Dot > Matrix Printer Card, Expansion Memory Cards from 64K to 256K, and Hard Disk > Drive interface Cards), plus external card slot on the right end, and disk > drive port on the left end for a single cable connection to add a floppy > disk drive (320K to 1.44 Megabyte Capacity). Other connectors: RF (TV) > output, Monitor (Video) output, and combination Audio/Video output to a > composite input monitor or TV equipped with A/V inputs. 5% handling and > ground U.S.A. shipping is $14. 30 day warranty. # 182 LIMITED QUANTITIES > > They also sell stand alone power supplies for the ADAM console. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Dunfield [mailto:dave04a@dunfield.com] > Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 11:54 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Tapeless Adam ? > > > >>Found a Coleco Adam on the weekend. > >>It's a bit odd in that it has NO tape drives. It does not > >>look as if one was removed - there are filler plates in both > >>tape compartments which look original. > >>Anyone know if there were any variations of the Adam which were > >>sold without any tape units at all? > > >Doubtful, looks like someone just pulled the drive and replaced it with a > >"dummy" > > Thats kinda what I'm guessing, however it *looks* factory - no signs of > prying, scraping and other giveaways that tell you it was modified. > > >eColeco sells ADAM units like this as just a game console. > > Curious - are these "game consoles with a printer", or do they have some > other means of powering them (the Adam is powered by the printer). > > Regards, > -- > dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield > dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com > com Vintage computing equipment collector. > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > > > *************************************************************** > This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or > used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, > disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be > unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the > sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. > *************************************************************** > Likely pulled the original drives to complete other units with defective drives and put the factory-looking cap back in the drive spot. Funny but I used to see lots of Adams but I don't think I ever saw a complete one. But I do have a Coleco pool filter which is complete so I guess that makes up for it. bm _____________________________________ Sometimes I wake up grumpy but generally I let her sleep. From allain at panix.com Mon Apr 26 13:51:19 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: Bad Tapes. 1 bit of info... References: Message-ID: <049801c42bbf$770ff960$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> There was a report on a NYC audiotape archive just now. Mentioned was a common problem of tape flaking and one last ditch solution was to bake the tape in a convection oven for 24 hours, presumably to re-seat the oxide into the plastic. Sounds like the temperature has to be exactly right. FYI, John A. From aek at spies.com Mon Apr 26 14:41:13 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: Bad Tapes. 1 bit of info... Message-ID: <200404261941.i3QJfDcX023576@spies.com> There was a report on a NYC audiotape archive just now. Mentioned was a common problem of tape flaking and one last ditch solution was to bake the tape in a convection oven for 24 hours, presumably to re-seat the oxide into the plastic. Sounds like the temperature has to be exactly right. == Google "Sticky Shed Syndrome" Common problem with hydroscopic decomposition of the tape binder. A temporary solution is to dry the tape out by baking. From alhartman at yahoo.com Mon Apr 26 14:37:15 2004 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 8, Issue 46 In-Reply-To: <200404231700.i3NH0FJ9097699@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040426193715.17187.qmail@web13423.mail.yahoo.com> Wow! I used to own this program, but I can't think of the name... I used to know someone named Kalman Bergen who made his own similar program called "Objcopy". We used his program to make backups of yours, that we used to make backups of Sargon.. LOL!!! Thanks for a great program, worth EVERY penny back in the day.. -Al > From: "David V. Corbin" > Subject: RE: Selectric Terminal > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > Posts'" > ne.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > It was right after the Model I came out, the > expansion chassis (16K!) was > announced but not shipping. Audio cassette recording > was the only storage. > > My first "commercial" product was a universal tape > duplicator [the only one that could "make backups" of > the popular Sargon Chess Game]! Of course it contained > code to prevent It duplicating itself!!!! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Apr 26 14:53:33 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: Bad Tapes. 1 bit of info... In-Reply-To: <049801c42bbf$770ff960$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <049801c42bbf$770ff960$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: This is turning into an Urban Legend as we watch - or, as was once quite succinctly put: "The plural of anecdote is 'bullshit'". ;} Some older formulations of tape - notably Ampex Grand Master 456 - has proved unstable over time. Recording tape of all kinds consists of a plastic strip, called the backing, made of various type of plastic - cellulose nitrate, acetates, or polyesters generally - with some formulation of a ferrous powder applied to it. The powder is very finely divided iron oxide, crystalized microscopic metal particles (acicles), or verious magnetic alloys - all reduced to a very fine dust. This dust is mixed with emulsifiers and lubricants, as well as an adhesive (the binder) to keep it stuck to the surface of the backing. There are two main modes of [chemical] tape filure - either the backing fails, as when acetate tape decomposes and the acetic acid coalesces out - giving some old tapes that 'vinegar' smell, or other failures of the backing chemistry to cause it to break, warp, or disintegrate. OR - the binders fail and the oxide layer becomes disassociated from the backing altogether (flaking or peeling), or the binder adhesives begin to 'weep' out of the oxide, and then it gets the whole tape path gooey and everything comes to a viscid halt in short order. In cases where the binders are failing - it is possible to try and dry the media in an oven - very low humidity and about 120 - 150 degress F for a few hours. Then it can hopefully be played back and the program recovered. I've had mixed luck over the last 20 years of direct involvment in audio and media restoration of all types. I've had some impossible-to-play tapes return completely from the dead - and I've had reels that had fused into a sorry, solid block of gooey ruin... These failures are much less common with data cassetes and 1/2" computer tape, because the formulations and speeds, etc, are different. Nonetheless, baking media is sometimes quite effective - but it's best if you know pretty much *why* you're doing it in the first place - and also it's good to have a firm idea of exactly what the next step after baking is going to be - because you won't have much time to try and recover your data after that. Cheers John From vax3900 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 26 15:48:02 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: Digital RK05J In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040426204802.35644.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> Ashley, I once said two claimed the two. Actually it is david only, he used two email accounts so I misunderstood him. He agreed that if you want, he can take one and you may have the chance to take another one. The whole was asked for $299 by the warehouse and they are willing to sale components for $250. I ask for $10 for each of you two. So you would pay $125+10+shipping if you want one. I will provide their receipt so you will know the price is right. I will also provide my identity if you want one. Let me know. Thanks. vax, 3900 --- Ashley Carder wrote: > I'm interested too, but David spoke first. What > else in in the test bench? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of > David V. Corbin > Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 10:58 AM > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > Posts' > Subject: RE: Digital RK05J > Importance: High > > > DEFINITELY INTERESTED! > > Whare are you (actually the stuff) located? > > Please contact me off-list > > David V. Corbin > david@dynamicconcepts.us > 631-244-8487 > > > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf > Of SHAUN RIPLEY > >>> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 9:59 AM > >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >>> Subject: Digital RK05J > >>> > >>> Does somebody want one? I found one in a > warehouse that is > >>> used in a big digital test bench. They ask > >>> $299 for the whole bench (maybe 1000 LB) but I > can ask them > >>> whether I can pull the RK05j and buy that only. > I ask $10 > >>> handling fee only. Thank you! > >>> > >>> vax, 3900 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> __________________________________ > >>> Do you Yahoo!? > >>> Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints > for 25" > >>> http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 26 17:07:57 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx update In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Apr 26, 4 01:29:27 pm Message-ID: > > Folks, > > Left my IIfx with both batteries out for 3 1/2 days and I still get no signs > of life. I know the keyboard's OK as it powers up my IIci. > > Any thoughts on what else might die over a couple of years non-use? Electrolytic caps would be my #1 guess. I supposed it could be bit-rot in an EPROM, but the machine is a bit too modern for that. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 26 17:10:23 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: Blinkenlights for everybody -- follow-up (1) In-Reply-To: <3C9C07E832765C4F92E96B06BDC0747A102B65@gd-mail03.oce.nl> from "Gooijen H" at Apr 26, 4 02:38:50 pm Message-ID: > - A substitute for defective logic! > One example : remove the (defective) boards from the > card reader (DEC aka Documation M200) and replace it > with a single Core and I/O board (+ software...) I sometimes wonder if I'm the last person left who can actually do fault-finding!. Put it this way, it's a lot easier for me to find the dead chip in an M200 (or in anything else for that matter) and replace it than to fight with some FPGA-based thing... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 26 17:13:44 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: TU 58 rubber rollers In-Reply-To: <200404261359.i3QDx5907324@mwave.heeltoe.com> from "Brad Parker" at Apr 26, 4 09:59:05 am Message-ID: > I would replace the tu58 with a laptop running linux and the the tu-58 > emulator. That's what I do with my 730. Works great. Err... A laptop is a lot harder to maintain than a TU58. What _I'd_ do is find the diameter of the original roller, use a suitable O-ring and either glue it to the original hub, or more probably turn down the original hub, make a sleve to fit over it with a groove for the O-ring, and put it on with a bit of 'high strength retainer'. This assumes the entire hub is difficult to reproduce, say because it includes a tachometer disk. -tony From vrs at msn.com Mon Apr 26 18:08:29 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: Blinkenlights for everybody -- follow-up (1) References: Message-ID: > > - A substitute for defective logic! > > One example : remove the (defective) boards from the > > card reader (DEC aka Documation M200) and replace it > > with a single Core and I/O board (+ software...) > > I sometimes wonder if I'm the last person left who can actually do > fault-finding!. > > Put it this way, it's a lot easier for me to find the dead chip in an > M200 (or in anything else for that matter) and replace it than to fight > with some FPGA-based thing... Well, I suppose that would depend on the availability of documentation, etc. for the old part. It might (possibly) make sense to bypass an old undocumented whatsit with something documented (new or not). I don't have any info on the M200, for example (if there is such a thing). BTW, it isn't really relevant to your point, but the Blinkenlights thingy is TTL. Vince From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Apr 26 20:29:41 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: still looking for... (DEC) Message-ID: <000d01c42bf7$1d39f2f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Looking for a pair of 64kw memory boards for an 11/45. Anyone have some to trade? Jay From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Apr 26 20:28:35 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: TU 58 rubber rollers In-Reply-To: References: <200404261359.i3QDx5907324@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <20040427012835.GB1829@mapo1.spole.gov> On Mon, Apr 26, 2004 at 11:13:44PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > What _I'd_ do is find the diameter of the original roller, use a suitable > O-ring and either glue it to the original hub, or more probably turn down > the original hub, make a sleve to fit over it with a groove for the > O-ring, and put it on with a bit of 'high strength retainer'. This > assumes the entire hub is difficult to reproduce, say because it includes > a tachometer disk. The usual fix for a TU-58 is to get some Tygon tubing from the local hardware store (the stuff that's about 0.500"), cut a sliver that's about as long as the aluminum hub is tall, and put it on the hub (after removing the gooey rubber roller, naturally). I've done this on several drives. You can find specific dimensions and probably more specific directions for this procedure in the list archives, but that's the nub of it. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 27-Apr-2004 01:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -71.7 F (-57.6 C) Windchill -118.7 F (-83.8 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.5 kts Grid 075 Barometer 685.9 mb (10404. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Apr 26 20:33:07 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: still looking for... (DEC) +model # References: <000d01c42bf7$1d39f2f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <001501c42bf7$980ea6b0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Specifically, M7891-D so you don't have to look :) Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 8:29 PM Subject: still looking for... (DEC) > Looking for a pair of 64kw memory boards for an 11/45. Anyone have some to > trade? > > Jay > > > From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Mon Apr 26 21:00:57 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? Message-ID: One of our number was kind enough to provide me with a copy of aztec C, and now I and trying to get it working. It was provided on 4 5.5" floppies, and I only have the One 5.5" drive in my apple, but I do have 2 3.25" drives (that each hold a little more) Aztech seems to be stored on PRODOS volumes, so I am now trying to copy from all it's 5.5's to 3.25s Is there a collection of Aztech C wisdom out on the net? Can anyone provide a proper directory setup ? Is it possible to compile the source C and have aztec save the assembly it generates? Thanks for the help. ron. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 26 21:16:45 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Apr 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > One of our number was kind enough to provide me with a copy of aztec C, > and now I and trying to > get it working. It was provided on 4 5.5" floppies, and I only have the > One 5.5" drive in > my apple, but I do have 2 3.25" drives (that each hold a little more) 5.25" 5.25" 5.25" 3.5" 3.5" 3.5" > Aztech seems to be stored on PRODOS volumes, so I am now trying to copy > from all it's 5.5's to > 3.25s 5.25" 5.25" 5.25" 3.5" 3.5" 3.5" > Is there a collection of Aztech C wisdom out on the net? > Can anyone provide a proper directory setup ? Aztec C on the Apple ][ is a sorry, lazy, flea-ridden dog. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Apr 26 21:22:25 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:07 2005 Subject: Weird items on VCM In-Reply-To: <001201c4289f$1944d8f0$a0340f14@mcothran1> References: <001201c4289f$1944d8f0$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040426212038.04fbbba0@pc> At 02:22 PM 4/22/2004, you wrote: >I did find reference to the Remington-Rand 256 bit tube. Check this out: >http://www.feb-patrimoine.com/Histoire/english/information_technology/inform There is a picture at: http://www-db.stanford.edu/pub/voy/museum/pictures/display/2-1.htm - John From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Apr 26 22:12:42 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Anybody want an IOMEGA 150 Multidisk? Message-ID: <99.462278f4.2dbf29aa@aol.com> 50 pin SCSI with disk. works fine, but I dont need it in the IBM model 85 I got it from. Pay to ship and add enough for an ice cream cone and it's yours. -- I am not willing to give up my liberties for the appearance of 'security' From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 26 22:38:41 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Blinkenlights for everybody -- follow-up (1) In-Reply-To: from "vrs" at Apr 26, 4 04:08:29 pm Message-ID: > > Put it this way, it's a lot easier for me to find the dead chip in an > > M200 (or in anything else for that matter) and replace it than to fight > > with some FPGA-based thing... > > Well, I suppose that would depend on the availability of documentation, etc. I repaired my first M200 (which does exist, it's a Hollerith card reader) with no documentation. And today you can get the manual from Bitsavers IIRC. > BTW, it isn't really relevant to your point, but the Blinkenlights thingy is > TTL. In which case it almost certainly involves some other computer, like a PC. I've mentioned before that I've never seen a properly documented modern PC.... -tony From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Apr 26 23:05:23 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Blinkenlights for everybody -- follow-up (1) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Apr 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > I repaired my first M200 (which does exist, it's a Hollerith card reader) > with no documentation. And today you can get the manual from Bitsavers IIRC. I even have the live one ;-) I used to have an M200, and still have its docs. --f From ggs at shiresoft.com Mon Apr 26 23:22:07 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: truckload of PDP stuff In-Reply-To: <200404141722.i3EHMUN29143@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200404141722.i3EHMUN29143@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <1083039727.5915.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Just to let you know it all showed up today (about a week early). Because I didn't receive any (significant) notice, I didn't take any pictures...you'd have been disappointed anyway. It was 2550 lbs of stuff on 3 pallets stacked to 4'. The are some interesting items, but nothing there that doesn't require a fair amount of TLC. I think if it were an ad for a used car it would be "some work required". :-) Here's a list of the major items: * RL01 (2) * RK05 (2) * 11/34 (3) * 11/05 or 11/10 (can't tell, part of front panel missing) * 11/40 mostly complete but has front panel whose switches were abused (broken/missing). The plexi is intact. * 11/40 badly abused. Front panel (and switches) intact (missing 1 switch cover) * 11/50 (I was jumping up and down when I saw this until I figured out it had no cards...nada.) * BA11F expansion box full of cards (21") * RK11D (2+) * RK11C (2) * TU60 * RX01 (or RX02) pretty horrible shape though * VT100 + 4 keyboards (all missing some keys) * various communications bulkheads * hardware (rails, doors, etc) In going through one of the small boxes I found a very strange looking cable. It had flip chip paddles on one end and centronics connectors (2) on the other. The cable itself was twisted pair wire bunched together. It took a few minutes to realize that this cable goes to between a Fabritec memory expansion and an 8/I. This cable is completely undocumented!!! -- TTFN - Guy From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Apr 27 00:14:41 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: truckload of PDP stuff In-Reply-To: <1083039727.5915.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200404141722.i3EHMUN29143@mwave.heeltoe.com> <1083039727.5915.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040427051441.GA6430@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Apr 26, 2004 at 09:22:07PM -0700, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > It was 2550 lbs of stuff on 3 pallets stacked to 4'. Whee! > Here's a list of the major items: > * RL01 (2) > * RK05 (2) Cool... disks are always handy. > * 11/34 (3) > * 11/05 or 11/10 (can't tell, part of front panel missing) > * 11/40 mostly complete but has front panel whose switches were > abused (broken/missing). The plexi is intact. > * 11/40 badly abused. Front panel (and switches) intact (missing > 1 switch cover) > * 11/50 (I was jumping up and down when I saw this until I figured > out it had no cards...nada.) Hmm... think it's possible to get two working 11/40s out of the pile, or does it look like one working 11/40 and a donor? It should be possible to cast some replica switch toggles, but it may or may not be worth it. > * BA11F expansion box full of cards (21") > * RK11D (2+) > * RK11C (2) Handy. Do either of the RK11Cs have the blinky-lights panel? > In going through one of the small boxes I found a very strange looking > cable. It had flip chip paddles on one end and centronics connectors > (2) on the other. The cable itself was twisted pair wire bunched > together. It took a few minutes to realize that this cable goes to > between a Fabritec memory expansion and an 8/I. This cable is > completely undocumented!!! Wow! I don't have a Fabritek memory box, but I do have an unexpanded -8/i. I'd seriously consider making a 1U memory enclosure with some battery-backed SRAM. Is there any chance you'd part with the cable? -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 27-Apr-2004 05:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -72.2 F (-57.9 C) Windchill -119.6 F (-84.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.6 kts Grid 080 Barometer 683.8 mb (10484. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Apr 27 00:35:23 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: truckload of PDP stuff In-Reply-To: <1083039727.5915.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200404141722.i3EHMUN29143@mwave.heeltoe.com> <1083039727.5915.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Long-time addic^H^H^H^H^H collectors will instantly recognize the expected Law of the Universe in full operation. Well, Ashley - see how Stuff pops up? All we have to do is 'dream' hardware, and Voila! it manifests! Now all I have to do is figuer out where I'm going to store a lot of my own computer apparitions. ;} Cheers John From jdbryan at acm.org Mon Apr 26 10:25:03 2004 From: jdbryan at acm.org (J. David Bryan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: HP 64000 with 80186 emulator? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040424082049.00837100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <4089F5A1.3020200@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200404261525.i3QFP4rQ001378@mail.bcpl.net> On 24 Apr 2004 at 8:20, Joe R. wrote: > The ones that I've seen with the tape drives are marked 64000. 64100A Logic Development Station + option 040 (add tape drive). Or 64100A Logic Development Station and 64940A Tape Cartridge Unit. Reference: HP 64000 Logic Development System Selection and Configuration Guide, July 1985. > The ones with the two floppy disks were marked 64100... 64100A Logic Development Station + option 041 (add two floppy drives). Or 64100A Logic Development Station and 64941A Dual 5-1/4 Inch Flexible Disc Unit. (Ibid.) > ...and the large "portable" one were marked 64110. Dual floppy drives were standard with the 64110A Logic Development Station. > I've seen that shown in some of the manuals but I suspect that they > would require the use of some kind of SRM (Shared Resource Manager) > software. The standard 64000 system software, product number 64100AF, supported stand- alone or clustered development stations. > You'd have a lot better luck finding a 7957, 7958 or 7959. They're a lot > smaller, newer and more reliable. Note that support for the CS/80 drives was dependent on development station firmware revision level. Version C or above is required for 7908, 7911, 7912, and 7914 drives. Version D or above is required for 7907, 7941, 7942, 7945, 7946, and 9134D/H drives. (Reference: ibid.) On 23 Apr 2004 at 23:05, Bill McDermith wrote: > Actually, you need the base OS to boot the unit and the 80186 emulator > code. The 80186 emulator software would be product number 64224AF. The diskettes themselves would be marked with part number 64224-120xx. -- Dave From ddsnyder at zoominternet.net Mon Apr 26 19:46:36 2004 From: ddsnyder at zoominternet.net (Dan Snyder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: request from a old post "New DEC finds" Message-ID: <000801c42bf1$18bbf3a0$6401a8c0@zoominternet.net> Ethan, You mentioned in a old post: "I have abundance of VCB02s, so if anyone wants to turn a Qbus MicroVAX into a VAXstation, I'm sure we can work something out (no mice, monitor cables or cab kits, I'm afraid)." from Fri Jun 27 20:40:38 2003 I have a MV3800 with a 8 plane (256 color) VCB set, but I do not have the bulkhead connector or QBUS faceplate type connector nor the external keyboard, mouse and monitor cable. Do you have any of these? Please let me know, Dan From rogbirk at wiktel.com Mon Apr 26 19:58:27 2004 From: rogbirk at wiktel.com (Roger Birkholz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: LF Heathkit H8 original software Message-ID: <000601c42bf2$c289b060$26b391ce@mshome.net> did you find software for the H8? From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Apr 27 01:50:58 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: request from a old post "New DEC finds" In-Reply-To: <000801c42bf1$18bbf3a0$6401a8c0@zoominternet.net> References: <000801c42bf1$18bbf3a0$6401a8c0@zoominternet.net> Message-ID: <20040427065058.GA7571@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Apr 26, 2004 at 08:46:36PM -0400, Dan Snyder wrote: > Ethan, > > You mentioned in a old post: > > "I have abundance of VCB02s, so if anyone wants to turn a Qbus > MicroVAX into a VAXstation, I'm sure we can work something out > (no mice, monitor cables or cab kits, I'm afraid)." > > from Fri Jun 27 20:40:38 2003 > > I have a MV3800 with a 8 plane (256 color) VCB set, but I do not have the > bulkhead connector or QBUS faceplate type connector nor the external keyboard, mouse > and monitor cable. Do you have any of these? As I said, I don't have the mice, the cables nor the bulkhead plates (that's what a 'cab kit' is). I have a few keyboards, but none that aren't attached to a VT220 or similar. Someone in Ohio gave me a box of Qbus framebuffer boards... more than I will ever use. I don't even have a set of the accessories for myself. I'd love to have a hockey puck or two, just for my VAXstation 2000s. Also, I'm about 12,000 miles away from my collection now. I couldn't even look for those bits if I wanted to. Sorry I can't help. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 27-Apr-2004 06:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -70.8 F (-57.1 C) Windchill -108.6 F (-78.09 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8.6 kts Grid 078 Barometer 683 mb (10512. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From ggs at shiresoft.com Tue Apr 27 02:20:21 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: truckload of PDP stuff In-Reply-To: <20040427051441.GA6430@bos7.spole.gov> References: <200404141722.i3EHMUN29143@mwave.heeltoe.com> <1083039727.5915.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040427051441.GA6430@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <1083050420.5915.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-04-26 at 22:14, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Mon, Apr 26, 2004 at 09:22:07PM -0700, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > > It was 2550 lbs of stuff on 3 pallets stacked to 4'. > > Whee! Yea, and I managed to get it all apart and stacked so I could get rid of the blasted pallets in about 3 hours (and it was 90+ today in SJ)! > > Hmm... think it's possible to get two working 11/40s out of the pile, or > does it look like one working 11/40 and a donor? It should be possible to > cast some replica switch toggles, but it may or may not be worth it. > I have a few (spare) 11/40 front panels (no plexi) and many extra switch covers so that's not a problem. The abused 11/40's chassis is a bit "tweeked" but at first glance it doesn't look irreprable. It is missing most (all?) of the CPU cards though. > > * BA11F expansion box full of cards (21") > > * RK11D (2+) > > * RK11C (2) > > Handy. Do either of the RK11Cs have the blinky-lights panel? Sadly no, but I figure that should be (relatively) easy to replicate. > > > In going through one of the small boxes I found a very strange looking > > cable. It had flip chip paddles on one end and centronics connectors > > (2) on the other. The cable itself was twisted pair wire bunched > > together. It took a few minutes to realize that this cable goes to > > between a Fabritec memory expansion and an 8/I. This cable is > > completely undocumented!!! > > Wow! I don't have a Fabritek memory box, but I do have an unexpanded > -8/i. I'd seriously consider making a 1U memory enclosure with some > battery-backed SRAM. Is there any chance you'd part with the cable? Not a chance! :-) I have a Fabritek memory box *and* and 8/i but until today didn't have the cable. Oooo, now I can have an 8/i with 32K!!! Of course I also have to get the 8/i working first, but hey details! :-) One of the things that I will be doing in the not too distant future is documenting the (wiring of the) cable so that others can make duplicates if they so wish. -- TTFN - Guy From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Apr 27 02:44:25 2004 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040427004058.00abc9a0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> I would take everything out, memory, drives etc., use a known good apple brand mouse and keyboard and see if some minimum system doesn't get some kind of response. ADB, SCSI, and memory can all look like this IIRC. BTW now is when its nice to have a good old Snooper board around. ;) From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Apr 27 03:25:32 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx update In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040427004058.00abc9a0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mike Ford > Sent: 27 April 2004 08:44 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only > Subject: RE: Mac IIfx update > > I would take everything out, memory, drives etc., use a known > good apple brand mouse and keyboard and see if some minimum > system doesn't get some kind of response. ADB, SCSI, and > memory can all look like this IIRC. I thought the fx required memory to be present to boot? So far my minimal system has been system ROM/memory/known good kb/rodent but I still don't get +5V on the ADB cable to the keyboard or anywhere on the motherboard connector.....it's looking very dead-PSU-ish now. > BTW now is when its nice to have a good old Snooper board around. ;) I assume that's a diagnostic board for dead nubus machines? Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Apr 27 03:26:39 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 26 April 2004 23:08 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Mac IIfx update > > > > > Folks, > > > > Left my IIfx with both batteries out for 3 1/2 days and I > still get no > > signs of life. I know the keyboard's OK as it powers up my IIci. > > > > Any thoughts on what else might die over a couple of years non-use? > > Electrolytic caps would be my #1 guess. I supposed it could > be bit-rot in an EPROM, but the machine is a bit too modern for that. Mine too, now that I know I'm getting no voltages in the machine at all...... Cheers w From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Tue Apr 27 08:15:45 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Is there a scan of "Designing Computer & Digital Systems" by Digital Press available? Message-ID: <20040427131545.GA12009@bos7.spole.gov> Does anyone have a PDF of "Designing Computer & Digital Systems", 1972? I have number of 30-year-old DEC handbooks, but not that one. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 27-Apr-2004 13:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -72.2 F (-57.9 C) Windchill -103.2 F (-75.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 7.4 kts Grid 069 Barometer 680.5 mb (10607. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From tony.eros at machm.org Tue Apr 27 09:01:17 2004 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Is there a scan of "Designing Computer & Digital Systems" byDigital Press available? In-Reply-To: <20040427131545.GA12009@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <200404271401.KAA42461@smtp.9netave.com> Ethan - I'm not aware of a single PDF, but the entire book is available online as an HTML set of scanned pages at: http://research.microsoft.com/users/gbell/Designing_Computers_and_Digital_Sy stems/index.html -- Tony -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 9:16 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Is there a scan of "Designing Computer & Digital Systems" byDigital Press available? Does anyone have a PDF of "Designing Computer & Digital Systems", 1972? I have number of 30-year-old DEC handbooks, but not that one. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 27-Apr-2004 13:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -72.2 F (-57.9 C) Windchill -103.2 F (-75.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 7.4 kts Grid 069 Barometer 680.5 mb (10607. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From pds3 at ix.netcom.com Tue Apr 27 09:19:35 2004 From: pds3 at ix.netcom.com (pds3@ix.netcom.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: still looking for... (DEC) +model # Message-ID: <14323684.1083075576259.JavaMail.root@donald.psp.pas.earthlink.net> I have at least one. I am checking on the other one. Items i am looking for:\ DRV11-J MRV11-D KDJ11-AB MSV11-MB KXT11-AB RQZX1-M KE11-B DRV1W-SA IEQ11-M DRQ11 KDF11-AA M8017-AA MCV11 Codar CT101 Thank you, Shannon Hoskins pds3@ix.netcom.com -----Original Message----- From: Jay West Sent: Apr 26, 2004 6:33 PM To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Subject: Re: still looking for... (DEC) +model # Specifically, M7891-D so you don't have to look :) Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 8:29 PM Subject: still looking for... (DEC) > Looking for a pair of 64kw memory boards for an 11/45. Anyone have some to > trade? > > Jay > > > From vcf at siconic.com Tue Apr 27 09:48:35 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Sun stuff Message-ID: Rich has some Sun stuff available. See below. Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:32:13 -0400 From: Rich Kulawiec To: Vintage Computer Festival Subject: Re: WTB: Speaker box for Sparc Station 1 ($$$) On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 10:11:40AM -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Hi Rich. > > Yes, please send a list. I'm pretty sure I'd be interested in another > audio dongle for the SparcStation 1 if indeed you do have some. Hiya. This took a while, because I had to do quite a bit of digging, and I'm still not done. - But I have a Sparc 1 audio dongle still in the original plastic bag -- plus a few other ones that have actually been used a bit. I thought that it was somewhere in the bottom of the pile, and I was right. (Imagine that!) - I also have a big pile of various SCSI cables that needs a home: these are ones that I used with my Sparc 2 and various external devices, and they're a mix of micro-SCSI (like the connector on the back of the Sparc), DB-50, and Centronics-style. There's at least: 3 DB-50 to Centronics, ~4 ft 4 DB-50 to DB-50, 2-3 ft 2 DB-50 to DB-50, 1 ft 2 DB-50 terminators 2 DB-50 to Sun micro-SCSI connectors, 3 ft 1 bizarre IBM double Centronics...you tell me, it's in the box plus: about 4 more Centronics-style cables I found yesterday - I have an SBus expansion box. It's a pizza-box the same size and shape as a Sparc 1/2, but designed to let me you plug in more cards. But: I don't have the connector/card for it. I have seen those offered around the 'net from time to time, but not for a while. - I have a Sun 911 enclosure. This is about twice the height of a 411, and it's designed to hold 4 SCSI disks. Caveat: while removing the disks from it ('cause I was still using it) I noticed one loose wire on the big harness that connects everything. I don't know if it was (a) always loose and thus not a source of any problems or (b) I knocked it loose while pulling the disks. I'm just not inclined to mess with it. - I have a couple of AUI-to-10BaseT transceivers with attached cables: one end plugs into the AUI Ethernet port on a Sparc 1/2, the other end (about 10 feet or so) has a 10baseT plug. Handy, but I don't need them any more. Cost for any of this? Make me an offer that's at least enough to cover shipping. ;-) Really. If you can use it, and I can get it out of here without losing money on the deal, it's yours. (I'm going to be moving soon, so the less stuff I have to pack...) There's other stuff as well but I haven't made a real list yet: old SunOS distributions (at least three of the SunOS 4.1.3/4.1.4 era), Solaris distributions (2.5, 2.5.1, 2.6., 2.7, and a still-stealed 2.8), and so on. I'm making a list now and will send that too. ---Rsk -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Apr 27 10:06:07 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Sun stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040427100421.03b9de98@mail.ubanproductions.com> Speaking of Sun stuff, I gave most of my older Sun3 stuff away a couple of years ago, but I discovered that I still have the stand which allows a Sun3/110 to be stood on end in a vertical tower fashion. If someone wants it, I will ship it to them for the cost of postage. If not, I'm going to pitch it. --tom From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Apr 27 10:18:26 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: DEC VR201-C monitor ? Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040427101721.03c86100@mail.ubanproductions.com> Does anyone have a DEC VR201-C monitor that they would be willing to part with? --tnx --tom From allain at panix.com Tue Apr 27 10:55:20 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? References: Message-ID: <006101c42c70$0c59fd80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Aztec C on the Apple ][ is a sorry, lazy, flea-ridden dog. Any C implementation for that era (1979) of micros is a pretty good find, IMHO. Although I'd reccomend finding a C for the PC class, post 8086, (1985+) if what you want to learn is software. John A. From allain at panix.com Tue Apr 27 10:58:43 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: DEC VR201-C monitor ? References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040427101721.03c86100@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <007301c42c70$84345d00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Tom Uban said: > Does anyone have a DEC VR201-C monitor that > they would be willing to part with? Much different from a VR201-A? John A. From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Apr 27 11:01:24 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: looking for SC Assembler for the Apple II Message-ID: <007401c42c70$e3f107c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I know there's other assemblers for the Apple II, but the "SC Assembler" is what I used to use, and what I still have a quick reference card for. So can anyone dump me a copy to DOS 3.3 floppy? Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Apr 27 11:13:02 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: DEC VR201-C monitor ? In-Reply-To: <007301c42c70$84345d00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040427101721.03c86100@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040427111112.04f6e988@mail.ubanproductions.com> From what I can tell, the -A is white, -B is green, and -C is amber. I guess I would prefer either -B or -C, but I am a beggar here:-) --tom At 11:58 AM 4/27/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Tom Uban said: > > Does anyone have a DEC VR201-C monitor that > > they would be willing to part with? > >Much different from a VR201-A? > >John A. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Apr 27 12:11:39 2004 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx update In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040427004058.00abc9a0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040427100758.033e7470@pop-server.socal.rr.com> > > I would take everything out, memory, drives etc., use a known > > good apple brand mouse and keyboard and see if some minimum > > system doesn't get some kind of response. ADB, SCSI, and > > memory can all look like this IIRC. > >I thought the fx required memory to be present to boot? So far my minimal >system has been system ROM/memory/known good kb/rodent but I still don't get >+5V on the ADB cable to the keyboard or anywhere on the motherboard >connector.....it's looking very dead-PSU-ish now. > > > BTW now is when its nice to have a good old Snooper board around. ;) > >I assume that's a diagnostic board for dead nubus machines? Yeah, Snooper has a nubus card that checks all voltages etc. with leds. Does the ADB have a fuse? Heh, about time to try swapping in a known good IIfx motherboard. ;) From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Apr 27 12:30:53 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx update In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040427100758.033e7470@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mike Ford > Sent: 27 April 2004 18:12 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only > Subject: RE: Mac IIfx update > > >I assume that's a diagnostic board for dead nubus machines? > > > Yeah, Snooper has a nubus card that checks all voltages etc. > with leds. Anyone in the UK with one of these? :) > Does the ADB have a fuse? Apparently it's fed off one of the 2 small upright boards in the PSU....this afternoon I dismantled and cleaned said PSU for a visual check and there's no burning or obvious leakage occurred so do I carry on troubleshooting or get another one from the US for $10+s/h? Actually, some of the copious glue that's on this PSU has burned and cracked on what looks like 2 ballast resistors, but I guess they get v.hot so that's OK. > Heh, about time to try swapping in a known good IIfx motherboard. ;) :) Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From cfandt at netsync.net Tue Apr 27 12:35:24 2004 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: More DEC boards available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040427132304.026e26e0@pop3.norton.antivirus> HI Norm, I would like to purchase the M7521 AA - ETHERNET L UNIBUS board. Would $12.50 plus shipping be okay? Any updates received on what the ComDesign -#010231 boards are? From the brand name it sounds logical to be like communications controllers along the line of the M7819 8-line EIA (RS-232) controllers. I think this because the set of boards you're offering sound like pulls from a VAX 11/750 of which I once owned one and M7819-types of boards are typically found as interfaces to the user's terminals. Thanks, Chris F. NNNN Upon the date 08:11 AM 4/26/04 -0700, Norm and Beth Anheier said something like: >I have the following DEC board for sale (best offer) or trade. They are >all in reasonable shape, but are not guaranteed functional. > >M7521 AA - ETHERNET L UNIBUS >(2) M7486 - UDA50 CONTROLLER MODULE >M7485-YA -M7485 W/ BLSTD RMS 4 LYR UDA50 >(2) M8750-CJ- MEMORY >(2) M7199-AF- MS750-J 4 MB MEMORY, HEX >L0002-DATAPATH & MICROQUENCER >(2) ComDesign -#010231- (?) > >Thanks Norm > ======================================================= Christian R. Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian 31 Houston Avenue Phone: +716-488-1722 Jamestown, New York email: cfandt@netsync.net 14701-2627 USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Apr 27 12:42:54 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: DEC VAX 11/xxx wanted Message-ID: <00da01c42c7f$11fbcd40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> My previous deal on a VAX 11/7xx fell through, so I'm back looking for one. I would really like to get an 11/750, but would settle for a 730. Anyone care to talk trade? Email me offlist if so! Most of my trading stock is HP gear, but I have some DEC gear too. Guess there is always cash if you want to go that route. Regards, Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Apr 27 13:11:10 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Old software available Message-ID: Here's a list of stuff to give away. Pay for shipping and whatever else you feel if it's worth something to you. (if anything) Turbo C++ 3.0 5 disks HP laserjet print system 10 disks IDEA assoc. idealink 5251+ 7 720k disks ibid business series 6 disks Kruse Control 1.2 6 disks PC anywhere IV/LAN 4.03 2 720k disks Norton PC anywhere 2.0 2 disks (2 copies) Interbase 4.2 for NT 4 disk set (2 copies) R&R report writer for paradox 4.1 paradox for DOS 4.5 2 disks paradox for DOS 4.5 runtime 2 disks paradox for Windows 1.0 4 disks paradox 4.0 2 disk set (4 copies) paradox 3.5 8 disk set 720k REXX for DOS 3.0 summasketch II plus 2 disks sage proedit for DOS 1.1 2 disks win95 upgrade 13 disks Win 3.1 6 disks powerpoint 4.0 10 disks winword 2.0 6 disks MSDOS 6.21 3 disks MS quick C compiler 5 720k disks Borland C++ builder for 95 and NT on CD (6 copies) Coreldraw 4 15 5.25 disks I've got more stuff like this once I sort through it all. From vcf at siconic.com Tue Apr 27 13:09:33 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? In-Reply-To: <006101c42c70$0c59fd80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Apr 2004, John Allain wrote: > > Aztec C on the Apple ][ is a sorry, lazy, flea-ridden dog. > > Any C implementation for that era (1979) of micros is a > pretty good find, IMHO. Aztech C is much later than that...probably 1983 at the earliest. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Apr 27 13:15:17 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Old software available In-Reply-To: from "SUPRDAVE@aol.com" at Apr 27, 04 02:11:10 pm Message-ID: <200404271815.OAA01080@wordstock.com> And thusly SUPRDAVE@aol.com spake: > > MSDOS 6.21 3 disks Is this the entire installation? Speaking of this, does anyone have or know where I can get a copy of QEMM? Cheers, Bryan From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Apr 27 13:22:43 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? References: <006101c42c70$0c59fd80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <408EA4F3.2050609@jetnet.ab.ca> John Allain wrote: >>Aztec C on the Apple ][ is a sorry, lazy, flea-ridden dog. > > > Any C implementation for that era (1979) of micros is a > pretty good find, IMHO. > Although I'd reccomend finding a C for the PC class, post > 8086, (1985+) if what you want to learn is software. A lot of 'free' 8086 C compilers are now out for the with the demise of DOS. http://www.thefreecountry.com/compilers/cpp.shtml > John A. From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Apr 27 13:37:15 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Old software available In-Reply-To: <200404271815.OAA01080@wordstock.com> References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040427133617.03d4ee80@mail.ubanproductions.com> My copy of DEC MSDOS 6.0 is three disks, so I would guess so. --tom At 02:15 PM 4/27/2004 -0400, you wrote: >And thusly SUPRDAVE@aol.com spake: > > > > MSDOS 6.21 3 disks > >Is this the entire installation? Speaking of this, does anyone have or >know where I can get a copy of QEMM? > >Cheers, > >Bryan From RMeenaks at OLF.COM Tue Apr 27 13:42:57 2004 From: RMeenaks at OLF.COM (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Old software available Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B55847806552C56@exchange.olf.com> Here you go... http://www.chsoft.com/dv.html Cheers, Ram -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Pope [mailto:bpope@wordstock.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:15 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Old software available And thusly SUPRDAVE@aol.com spake: > > MSDOS 6.21 3 disks Is this the entire installation? Speaking of this, does anyone have or know where I can get a copy of QEMM? Cheers, Bryan (c) 2004 OpenLink Financial Copyright in this message and any attachments remains with us. It is confidential and may be legally privileged. If this message is not intended for you it must not be read, copied or used by you or disclosed to anyone else. Please advise the sender immediately if you have received this message in error. Although this message and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss or damage in any way arising from its use. From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Tue Apr 27 13:51:07 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? In-Reply-To: <408EA4F3.2050609@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <006101c42c70$0c59fd80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <408EA4F3.2050609@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Apr 27, 2004, at 11:22 AM, ben franchuk wrote: > John Allain wrote: >>> Aztec C on the Apple ][ is a sorry, lazy, flea-ridden dog. >> Any C implementation for that era (1979) of micros is a pretty good >> find, IMHO. >> Although I'd reccomend finding a C for the PC class, post >> 8086, (1985+) if what you want to learn is software. > > > A lot of 'free' 8086 C compilers are now out for the > with the demise of DOS. > http://www.thefreecountry.com/compilers/cpp.shtml Well, I really wanted to write for my apple IIc+.... > >> John A. > > > From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Apr 27 13:51:07 2004 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? In-Reply-To: from "Ron Hudson" at Apr 27, 04 11:51:07 am Message-ID: <200404271851.OAA25516@wordstock.com> And thusly Ron Hudson spake: > > > On Apr 27, 2004, at 11:22 AM, ben franchuk wrote: > > > John Allain wrote: > >>> Aztec C on the Apple ][ is a sorry, lazy, flea-ridden dog. > >> Any C implementation for that era (1979) of micros is a pretty good > >> find, IMHO. > >> Although I'd reccomend finding a C for the PC class, post > >> 8086, (1985+) if what you want to learn is software. > > > > > > A lot of 'free' 8086 C compilers are now out for the > > with the demise of DOS. > > http://www.thefreecountry.com/compilers/cpp.shtml > > Well, I really wanted to write for my apple IIc+.... > http://www.cc65.org There is a port for the Apple II... Cheers, Bryan From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Apr 27 14:05:09 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Old software available References: <200404271815.OAA01080@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <003301c42c8a$8f568ea0$962a1941@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Pope" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:15 PM Subject: Re: Old software available > And thusly SUPRDAVE@aol.com spake: > > > > MSDOS 6.21 3 disks > > Is this the entire installation? Speaking of this, does anyone have or > know where I can get a copy of QEMM? > > Cheers, > > Bryan > > If you want a real copy of QEMM try eBay. I purchased a new in shrink-wrap QEMM 7.5 (probably best version for DOS games) for $1 and $2 shipping. From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Apr 27 14:06:24 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Old software available References: Message-ID: <003c01c42c8a$bc369820$962a1941@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:11 PM Subject: Old software available > Here's a list of stuff to give away. Pay for shipping and whatever else you > feel if it's worth something to you. (if anything) > > Turbo C++ 3.0 5 disks > HP laserjet print system 10 disks > IDEA assoc. idealink 5251+ 7 720k disks > ibid business series 6 disks > Kruse Control 1.2 6 disks > PC anywhere IV/LAN 4.03 2 720k disks > Norton PC anywhere 2.0 2 disks (2 copies) > Interbase 4.2 for NT 4 disk set (2 copies) > R&R report writer for paradox 4.1 > paradox for DOS 4.5 2 disks > paradox for DOS 4.5 runtime 2 disks > paradox for Windows 1.0 4 disks > paradox 4.0 2 disk set (4 copies) > paradox 3.5 8 disk set 720k > REXX for DOS 3.0 > summasketch II plus 2 disks > sage proedit for DOS 1.1 2 disks > win95 upgrade 13 disks > Win 3.1 6 disks > powerpoint 4.0 10 disks > winword 2.0 6 disks > MSDOS 6.21 3 disks > MS quick C compiler 5 720k disks > Borland C++ builder for 95 and NT on CD (6 copies) > Coreldraw 4 15 5.25 disks > > I've got more stuff like this once I sort through it all. > Are those just the disks or are there manuals as well? From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Apr 27 14:27:53 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Old software available In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040427133617.03d4ee80@mail.ubanproductions.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040427133617.03d4ee80@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <20040427121223.X28688@newshell.lmi.net> The number of disks is NOT a suitable way to differentiate between "full install", "upgrade' and "stepup" (although the "stepup" WAS available as a single HD diskette, and even as a DOWNLOAD!) Perhaps, it might be even more accurate, in identifying what it is, to look at what is marked on the diskettes! For those not familiar with that range of MS-DOS versions: 6.20 was revised to improve reliability, due to problems created by SMARTDRV (and blamed on DBLSPACE) Possibly the ONLY time that ANY MICROS~1 product was ever revised to improve RELIABILITY 6.21 had DBLSPACE removed (as part of the $100M infringement settlement with STAC Electronics - Bill Gates "had a bad day") 6.22 had DRVSPACE as a replacement for DBLSPACE They were available as full-installs, as upgrades that required presence of almost any previous version, and as [often free] "stepups" that upgraded between minor versions (such as from 6.2x to 6.22) On Tue, 27 Apr 2004, Tom Uban wrote: > My copy of DEC MSDOS 6.0 is three disks, so I would guess so. > > --tom > > At 02:15 PM 4/27/2004 -0400, you wrote: > > >And thusly SUPRDAVE@aol.com spake: > > > > > > MSDOS 6.21 3 disks > > > >Is this the entire installation? Speaking of this, does anyone have or > >know where I can get a copy of QEMM? > > > >Cheers, > > > >Bryan From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Apr 27 14:34:23 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? In-Reply-To: <408EA4F3.2050609@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <006101c42c70$0c59fd80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <408EA4F3.2050609@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20040427123137.N28688@newshell.lmi.net> On Tue, 27 Apr 2004, ben franchuk wrote: > A lot of 'free' 8086 C compilers are now out for the > with the demise of DOS. http://www.thefreecountry.com/compilers/cpp.shtml Another list: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/msdos-programmer-faq/part5/section-10.html For a DOS command line compiler, my preference is the DeSmet ("Personal C") For an IDE suitable for LEARNING C, consider the free downloads of TurboC From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Tue Apr 27 14:57:08 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: still looking for... (DEC) References: <000d01c42bf7$1d39f2f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <00b601c42c92$f30ed760$4aa94ed5@geoff> I heard they were power hungry , but this is ridiculous ! Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:29 AM Subject: still looking for... (DEC) > Looking for a pair of 64kw memory boards for an 11/45. Anyone have some to > trade? > > Jay > From brianmahoney at look.ca Tue Apr 27 15:40:59 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Old software available References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040427133617.03d4ee80@mail.ubanproductions.com> <20040427121223.X28688@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <002b01c42c98$089eea20$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 3:27 PM Subject: Re: Old software available > The number of disks is NOT a suitable way to differentiate between "full > install", "upgrade' and "stepup" (although the "stepup" WAS available as a > single HD diskette, and even as a DOWNLOAD!) > > Perhaps, it might be even more accurate, in identifying what it is, > to look at what is marked on the diskettes! > > That is good advice EXCEPT companies such as IBM don't put the total number of disks on each disk. Microsoft does, and since this is ms.dos it applies but I just bought a Warp version that has 30 floppies or so, none of them marked 1 of 15 etc. The bloody box doesn't even have the number of disks on it, neither does the manual. Turned out to be the full version anyway. Wasn't there a DOS 7 download from a Chinese site listed here a few months ago? bm From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Tue Apr 27 15:27:53 2004 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:08 2005 Subject: Old software available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040427162652.01f416f0@pop-server> At 02:11 PM 4/27/2004, you wrote: >I've got more stuff like this once I sort through it all. If you come across any of the following let me know: Symantec Q&A First Choice Professional Write ================================= Gene Ehrich gehrich@tampabay.rr.com From allain at panix.com Tue Apr 27 15:20:40 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: semi-OT: text lites References: <006101c42c70$0c59fd80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <408EA4F3.2050609@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <063c01c42c95$1cbfd620$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Anybody know how to do serial port access to a "Text Lite" LED text display? I have about three feet of one of them here. John A. and in 30 minutes it becomes a bunch of matrix displays semi-kidding From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Apr 27 16:13:09 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: Old software available In-Reply-To: <002b01c42c98$089eea20$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040427133617.03d4ee80@mail.ubanproductions.com> <20040427121223.X28688@newshell.lmi.net> <002b01c42c98$089eea20$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> Message-ID: <20040427140211.H28688@newshell.lmi.net> > > The number of disks is NOT a suitable way to differentiate between "full > > install", "upgrade' and "stepup" (although the "stepup" WAS available as a > > single HD diskette, and even as a DOWNLOAD!) > > > > Perhaps, it might be even more accurate, in identifying what it is, > > to look at what is marked on the diskettes! On Tue, 27 Apr 2004, Brian Mahoney wrote: > That is good advice EXCEPT companies such as IBM don't put the total number The "advice" was NOT to read the diskettes to find out how many there are/should be. The "advice" was to read WHAT variant version is marked on the diskettes to differentiate between whether it was a "full install" v "upgrade" v "stepup", rather than counting the diskettes as an identification of version. > of disks on each disk. Microsoft does, and since this is ms.dos it applies > but I just bought a Warp version that has 30 floppies or so, none of them > marked 1 of 15 etc. The bloody box doesn't even have the number of disks on > it, neither does the manual. Turned out to be the full version anyway. You mean a "complete copy" "full version" is also used to refer to the MICROS~1 variant of installation (v "upgrade") that does not require a previous version to already be installed. The failure to include "of 15" in the diskette numbering is indeed, grossly incompetent. > Wasn't there a DOS 7 download from a Chinese site listed here a few months > ago? 7.10 which is the DOS underlying Windoze 98. (FORMAT /S) It was so full of extraneous third party command shells, graphic loaders, etc., that it was almost impossible to figure out WHAT it was. The only thing there that was unique, was a claim to be able to handle NTFS! Did NOT work. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 27 16:22:34 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx update In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040427100758.033e7470@pop-server.socal.rr.com> from "Mike Ford" at Apr 27, 4 10:11:39 am Message-ID: > Yeah, Snooper has a nubus card that checks all voltages etc. with leds. I guess a DMM and a nubus pinout would be as useful if not more so. At least on the PC side, the 'diagnostic cards' tend to just have an LED and resistor from each power line to ground. So if the line is low, but not missing (say the +5V line is sitting at 4.2V or something), the LED still lights. > > Does the ADB have a fuse? > > Heh, about time to try swapping in a known good IIfx motherboard. ;) Or actually fixing the problem properly by making some measurements and finding what's failed rather than replacing random parts until the fault goes away. As I've said before, this is no way to fix anything, certainly not a computer! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 27 16:00:20 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: truckload of PDP stuff In-Reply-To: <20040427051441.GA6430@bos7.spole.gov> from "Ethan Dicks" at Apr 27, 4 05:14:41 am Message-ID: > Handy. Do either of the RK11Cs have the blinky-lights panel? I must get round to adding that to my RK11C (on my 11/45). I have a couple of the light panels, off DX11s (IBM channel interfaces). Actually, I have the DX11s too, but without a System/360 or System/370 to connect them to (The printset I have details the mods to connect to a 370), I think it would be a sensible idea to move one of the light panels to the RK11C. Of course I don't have the right bezel for this, but that can be kludged, at least for the mmoent. > > > In going through one of the small boxes I found a very strange looking > > cable. It had flip chip paddles on one end and centronics connectors > > (2) on the other. The cable itself was twisted pair wire bunched > > together. It took a few minutes to realize that this cable goes to > > between a Fabritec memory expansion and an 8/I. This cable is > > completely undocumented!!! It can't take that long to buzz out the connections, surely? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 27 16:19:50 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? In-Reply-To: <006101c42c70$0c59fd80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Apr 27, 4 11:55:20 am Message-ID: > > > Aztec C on the Apple ][ is a sorry, lazy, flea-ridden dog. > > Any C implementation for that era (1979) of micros is a > pretty good find, IMHO. I remember running OS-9 C on my CoCo. It wasn't a bad language, actually, but it had to load the compiler in about 3 sections from disk (the preprocessor, section 1 and section 2 IIRC), and wrote all sorts of temporary files between sections. I didn't have a hard disk, so it took a long time to compile anything, loading each bit from floppies... > Although I'd reccomend finding a C for the PC class, post > 8086, (1985+) if what you want to learn is software. If you want to learn C, install one of the free unices and run gcc. Oh, and buy K&R -- you'll be glad you did. I couldn't understand any of the 'learn C in 2 weeks' type of books, I thoguht C was well beyond me. Then I bought K&R and was writing simple programs the same afternoon. K&R is expensiver per page I guess (it's a thin book), but it's full of information, and it's logically set out. -tony From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 27 16:32:30 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: semi-OT: text lites In-Reply-To: <063c01c42c95$1cbfd620$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Apr 27, 2004 04:20:40 PM Message-ID: <200404272132.i3RLWUUD028724@onyx.spiritone.com> > > Anybody know how to do serial port access > to a "Text Lite" LED text display? I have about > three feet of one of them here. > > John A. > and in 30 minutes it becomes a bunch of matrix displays > semi-kidding > > Try doing a Google search on them, there at least used to be a project that involved interfacing such things (though smaller ones). Ah, I still have a bookmark... http://lcdproc.omnipotent.net/ Don't know if this will be any help, but it is interesting. Zane From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Apr 27 16:32:49 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: still looking for... (DEC) References: <000d01c42bf7$1d39f2f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <00b601c42c92$f30ed760$4aa94ed5@geoff> Message-ID: <01f701c42c9f$305c6400$033310ac@kwcorp.com> But Geoff, when I said 64kw memory boards, I was referring to kilowords, not kilowatts *GRIN* Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoffrey Thomas" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:57 PM Subject: Re: still looking for... (DEC) > I heard they were power hungry , but this is ridiculous ! > > Geoff. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jay West" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:29 AM > Subject: still looking for... (DEC) > > > > Looking for a pair of 64kw memory boards for an 11/45. Anyone have some to > > trade? > > > > Jay > > > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 27 16:52:41 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: Stuff in Portland, OR Message-ID: <200404272152.i3RLqfm0029244@onyx.spiritone.com> Is anyone in the Portland area interested in collecting a bunch of misc. computer (as well as probably some electronics) stuff? It's for local pickup only, and until I start digging it out, I don't know what all will be in there. Definitely PC realated stuff (PCI era), and at least a little Sun stuff. Probably some other cool stuff as well, especially if interest is expressed, or cash offered. If no one in the area is interested, it's probably going to get dumped on BadWill. The classic stuff really isn't in much danger at the moment, I just have to do something to free up some space (if someone interested in picking stuff up is interested in classic stuff as well, some of it's available). I'll probably be dumping the non-classic stuff this weekend if I haven't heard from anyone. Remember LOCAL PICKUP ONLY! Zane From RMeenaks at OLF.COM Tue Apr 27 17:32:10 2004 From: RMeenaks at OLF.COM (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B55847806552C66@exchange.olf.com> Or you can read it online at: http://web.archive.org/web/20030207005349/www.pseudorandom.org/kandr/kandr.h tml Cheers, Ram -----Original Message----- From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 5:20 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? If you want to learn C, install one of the free unices and run gcc. Oh, and buy K&R -- you'll be glad you did. I couldn't understand any of the 'learn C in 2 weeks' type of books, I thoguht C was well beyond me. Then I bought K&R and was writing simple programs the same afternoon. K&R is expensiver per page I guess (it's a thin book), but it's full of information, and it's logically set out. -tony (c) 2004 OpenLink Financial Copyright in this message and any attachments remains with us. It is confidential and may be legally privileged. If this message is not intended for you it must not be read, copied or used by you or disclosed to anyone else. Please advise the sender immediately if you have received this message in error. Although this message and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss or damage in any way arising from its use. From spc at conman.org Tue Apr 27 17:33:35 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Apr 27, 2004 10:19:50 PM Message-ID: <20040427223335.C173E10B1310@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Tony Duell once stated: > > > > > > Aztec C on the Apple ][ is a sorry, lazy, flea-ridden dog. > > > > Any C implementation for that era (1979) of micros is a > > pretty good find, IMHO. C is a pretty poor match to the 6502 though---not enough stack space (one page) and anything you get out of the compiler will probably be worse than what you can do by hand in assembly. The 6809 is geared more towards C (and higher level languages in general) than the 6502. Compilers for the 8080 (Z80) may produce mediocre code. > > Although I'd reccomend finding a C for the PC class, post > > 8086, (1985+) if what you want to learn is software. > > If you want to learn C, install one of the free unices and run gcc. Oh, > and buy K&R -- you'll be glad you did. I couldn't understand any of the > 'learn C in 2 weeks' type of books, I thoguht C was well beyond me. Then > I bought K&R and was writing simple programs the same afternoon. K&R is > expensiver per page I guess (it's a thin book), but it's full of > information, and it's logically set out. What Tony said. _The C Programming Language_ by K&R is *the best* book on learning C, period. It's one of two books on C that I have and I still use it to this day (having started with C in 1990) even if it is only Appendix B I use (Standard C Library). The other C book I have (and recommend) is _The Standard C Library_ by P. J. Plauger. K&R teaches you C, while Plauger teaches you the Standard C Library, and why it is the way it is (and gives you a sample implementation of said library). -spc (Oh wait ... I lied. I have three C books---the third being Numerical Recipies in C) From sastevens at earthlink.net Tue Apr 27 17:35:22 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? In-Reply-To: <408EA4F3.2050609@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <006101c42c70$0c59fd80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <408EA4F3.2050609@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20040427173522.65c5710c.sastevens@earthlink.net> On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:22:43 -0600 ben franchuk wrote: > John Allain wrote: > >>Aztec C on the Apple ][ is a sorry, lazy, flea-ridden dog. > > > > > > Any C implementation for that era (1979) of micros is a > > pretty good find, IMHO. > > Although I'd reccomend finding a C for the PC class, post > > 8086, (1985+) if what you want to learn is software. > > > A lot of 'free' 8086 C compilers are now out for the > with the demise of DOS. http://www.thefreecountry.com/compilers/cpp.shtml > Agreed, but sometimes it's fun to dredge around in the past. We do that here, don't we? I was messing around writing code with my copy of Aztec C for DOS last fall for awhile. I have the full set with disks and manuals, and it wasn't hard to get it going on an old laptop. And it's nice to have archaic tools that you can write code to run on really old equipment, i.e. DOS 1.0 machines. From t.dekker at student.utwente.nl Tue Apr 27 18:38:00 2004 From: t.dekker at student.utwente.nl (Thomas Dekker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: IBM ps/2 P70 Plasma screen voltages Message-ID: <200404272337.i3RNbvo11940@netlx050.vf.utwente.nl> Hi everyone, I have one of the newer plasma displays used in the IBM P70, labeled MD480T640PG4. I've found the pinout for the data connector, but i can't seem to find the pinout of the power connector anywhere. It's an 8 pins connector, with the center 3 pins missing. Picture: http://twl.student.utwente.nl/display.jpg As most of the caps around the connector are rated for 250V, I presume it needs some high voltage. There is also a small connector in the bottom left part of the board. Maybe used for driving an indicator light? Cheers, Thomas From cmurray at eagle.ca Tue Apr 27 18:50:35 2004 From: cmurray at eagle.ca (Murray McCullough) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: Tapeless ADAM? References: <200404271520.i3RFKVdl015473@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <408EF1CB.46E8E358@eagle.ca> > Hi Ken I haven't seen one lately. Been an ADAMITE for some 20 yrs. and they were available as 'modified' by experimenters to use without printer power supply and with a 5 1/4" drive. A surprise to see this orphan mentioned anyplace! Cheers. Murray-- > > Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:53:31 -0500 > From: "Van Mersbergen, Ken" > Subject: RE: Tapeless Adam ? > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > eColeco sells it for $30 without tape drive, keyboard, printer or > controllers. > > R80 CPU with place for two Datadrive tape units to boot Tape Software and > SuperGames, and save or load files on blank Digital Datapack tapes. Play > Coleco Game Cartridges (virtually indestructible plastic plug-in software on > MicroChips) using Game Controllers (two 9 pin ports available). Separate > Game and Computer Reset Switches. Expandable console features three card > slots under the top access cover (internal Modem or serial card, Aux Dot > Matrix Printer Card, Expansion Memory Cards from 64K to 256K, and Hard Disk > Drive interface Cards), plus external card slot on the right end, and disk > drive port on the left end for a single cable connection to add a floppy > disk drive (320K to 1.44 Megabyte Capacity). Other connectors: RF (TV) > output, Monitor (Video) output, and combination Audio/Video output to a > composite input monitor or TV equipped with A/V inputs. 5% handling and > ground U.S.A. shipping is $14. 30 day warranty. # 182 LIMITED QUANTITIES > > They also sell stand alone power supplies for the ADAM console. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Dunfield [mailto:dave04a@dunfield.com] > Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 11:54 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Tapeless Adam ? > > >>Found a Coleco Adam on the weekend. > >>It's a bit odd in that it has NO tape drives. It does not > >>look as if one was removed - there are filler plates in both > >>tape compartments which look original. > >>Anyone know if there were any variations of the Adam which were > >>sold without any tape units at all? > > >Doubtful, looks like someone just pulled the drive and replaced it with a > >"dummy" > > Thats kinda what I'm guessing, however it *looks* factory - no signs of > prying, scraping and other giveaways that tell you it was modified. > > >eColeco sells ADAM units like this as just a game console. > > Curious - are these "game consoles with a printer", or do they have some > other means of powering them (the Adam is powered by the printer). > > Regards, > -- > dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield > dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com > com Vintage computing equipment collector. > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > > *************************************************************** From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Apr 27 15:29:27 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: IBM ps/2 P70 Plasma screen voltages In-Reply-To: <200404272337.i3RNbvo11940@netlx050.vf.utwente.nl> Message-ID: <20040428002625.MXPI7304.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > I have one of the newer plasma displays used in the IBM P70, labeled > MD480T640PG4. I have traced the wirings in my P75 and P70 for power and I find they are same voltages but different locations depending on old and new. IBM did issue ECA on these P70 and P75 portables this involves replacing basically whole video stuff (cables, new power supply and plamsa display). Google should turn up many hits on this. Like LCD they're built for each use unless you found the datasheets for those plamsa displays and have hardware to drive them not just power, the data generation etc. Cheers, Wizard > Thomas From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 27 19:27:57 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: still looking for... (DEC) In-Reply-To: <01f701c42c9f$305c6400$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at Apr 27, 4 04:32:49 pm Message-ID: > > But Geoff, when I said 64kw memory boards, I was referring to kilowords, not > kilowatts *GRIN* To be pedantic, 'kw' (lower caseW) is kilowords, 'kW' (upper case W) is kilowatts, I believe.... You were correct in your original message. > > Jay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Geoffrey Thomas" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:57 PM > Subject: Re: still looking for... (DEC) > > > > I heard they were power hungry , but this is ridiculous ! > > > > Geoff. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jay West" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:29 AM > > Subject: still looking for... (DEC) > > > > > > > Looking for a pair of 64kw memory boards for an 11/45. Anyone have some > to > > > trade? > > > > > > Jay From t.dekker at student.utwente.nl Tue Apr 27 20:49:46 2004 From: t.dekker at student.utwente.nl (Thomas Dekker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: IBM ps/2 P70 Plasma screen voltages In-Reply-To: <20040428002625.MXPI7304.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <200404280149.i3S1ngo04897@netlx050.vf.utwente.nl> Thank you for your swift answer, I know how to drive it, i have documents explaining this. What I don't have, is an original power supply. Two days of googling turned up a possible 24V or 205V and I don't want to connect that to the wrong pins... I can't trace any leads on the board (It's tripple layered) to figure it out, so now i have to rely on a voltage reading from someone else :( P.S. Did you by any chance notice a third connector with only 3 wires leading somewhere? >> I have one of the newer plasma displays used in the IBM P70, labeled >> MD480T640PG4. > > I have traced the wirings in my P75 and P70 for power and I find they are same voltages but different locations depending on old and new. > IBM did issue ECA on these P70 and P75 portables this involves replacing basically whole video stuff (cables, new power supply and plamsa display). > > Google should turn up many hits on this. > > Like LCD they're built for each use unless you found the datasheets for those plamsa displays and have hardware to drive them not just power, the data generation etc. > > Cheers, > > Wizard > >> Thomas From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Apr 27 23:01:16 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: Does anyone have the Nov 1980 issue of "Electronic Design"? In-Reply-To: <20040425100637.GB22412@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: > In researching the INS8073 CPU, I ran across an ancient Usenet article > that mentions that the 22-Nov-1980 issue of "Electronic Design" has an > article that might be of interest. Most any library of an engineering school should have a copy. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Wed Apr 28 00:35:51 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? In-Reply-To: <20040427173522.65c5710c.sastevens@earthlink.net> References: <006101c42c70$0c59fd80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <408EA4F3.2050609@jetnet.ab.ca> <20040427173522.65c5710c.sastevens@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Lots of great thoughts everyone, thanks ... but What I really want is to write programs for my Apple IIc+. fast programs. I want to write a LIFE program (cells, patterns movement) Basic is too slow. (I don't think I even have integer basic) I eventually want to be able to write .system files that prodos can run. I was asking about Aztec C cuz I have a copy. Aztec seems to have an assemble step, which means it has an assembler in there. The problem is that I don't know how to setup the files so the compliler actually works. Aztec currently lives on 4 5.25" diskettes, and I only have a single 5.25" drive. I have two 3.5" drives, I would rather run Aztec from the 3.5" drives. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Apr 28 02:37:33 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: Does anyone have the Nov 1980 issue of "Electronic Design"? In-Reply-To: References: <20040425100637.GB22412@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <20040428073733.GA30653@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Apr 28, 2004 at 12:01:16AM -0400, William Donzelli wrote: > > In researching the INS8073 CPU, I ran across an ancient Usenet article > > that mentions that the 22-Nov-1980 issue of "Electronic Design" has an > > article that might be of interest. > > Most any library of an engineering school should have a copy. That'll have to wait until I get back to the U.S. Thanks, -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 28-Apr-2004 07:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -74.0 F (-59.0 C) Windchill -117.4 F (-83 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9.6 kts Grid 066 Barometer 677.4 mb (10723. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Apr 28 02:41:49 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? In-Reply-To: References: <006101c42c70$0c59fd80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20040428074149.GB30653@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 10:19:50PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > If you want to learn C, install one of the free unices and run gcc. Oh, > and buy K&R -- you'll be glad you did. I couldn't understand any of the > 'learn C in 2 weeks' type of books, I thoguht C was well beyond me. Then > I bought K&R and was writing simple programs the same afternoon. K&R is > expensiver per page I guess (it's a thin book), but it's full of > information, and it's logically set out. I have to agree with endorsing K&R... That's how I learned C twenty years ago. I don't think any of the books that have followed have done as good a job of presenting the material. Yes, C has changed, but that's window dressing compared to the underlying concepts. I still keep a copy handy when I'm starting a project (just as I always have the Camel book around for Perl). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 28-Apr-2004 07:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -74.0 F (-59.0 C) Windchill -117.4 F (-83 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9.6 kts Grid 066 Barometer 677.4 mb (10723. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Apr 28 02:43:10 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: semi-OT: text lites In-Reply-To: <200404272132.i3RLWUUD028724@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <063c01c42c95$1cbfd620$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <200404272132.i3RLWUUD028724@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <20040428074310.GC30653@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 02:32:30PM -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Anybody know how to do serial port access > > to a "Text Lite" LED text display? I have about > > three feet of one of them here. Hmm... sounds like something fun to play with. > Try doing a Google search on them, there at least used to be a project that > involved interfacing such things (though smaller ones). Ah, I still have a > bookmark... http://lcdproc.omnipotent.net/ Don't know if this will be any > help, but it is interesting. That's a good project (I'm one of the contributors - for the PIC-an-LCD driver, among other things)... still active, too. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 28-Apr-2004 07:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -74.3 F (-59.1 C) Windchill -118.5 F (-83.7 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9.80 kts Grid 073 Barometer 677.4 mb (10723. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Apr 28 02:46:45 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: DEC VR201-C monitor ? In-Reply-To: <007301c42c70$84345d00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040427101721.03c86100@mail.ubanproductions.com> <007301c42c70$84345d00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20040428074645.GD30653@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 11:58:43AM -0400, John Allain wrote: > Tom Uban said: > > Does anyone have a DEC VR201-C monitor that > > they would be willing to part with? > > Much different from a VR201-A? Just the tube color (I forget which letters are which colors, but DEC sold "paper white", amber, and green. I don't think I have any amber VR201s at home, and perhaps only one white. Most of mine are green (and attached to working devices ;-) For a while, they were as cheap as $5 at Hamfests and so on. I haven't seen one sitting out for about five years. My GG2 Bus+ test computer is an Amiga 2000 with a VR201 and a custom wire harness that taps its 12V off of the Amiga PSU - I didn't have a spare RGB monitor to dedicate to the test bench, and the A2000 output is mono-only, so it seemed like a natural fit. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 28-Apr-2004 07:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -74.3 F (-59.1 C) Windchill -118.5 F (-83.7 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9.80 kts Grid 073 Barometer 677.4 mb (10723. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Apr 28 02:54:27 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? In-Reply-To: <20040427223335.C173E10B1310@swift.conman.org> References: <20040427223335.C173E10B1310@swift.conman.org> Message-ID: <20040428075427.GE30653@bos7.spole.gov> On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 06:33:35PM -0400, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > C is a pretty poor match to the 6502 though---not enough stack space (one > page) and anything you get out of the compiler will probably be worse than > what you can do by hand in assembly. I had a toy C compiler for the C-64 years and years ago... I don't think I tried to compile anything over about 25 lines with it - it was too cumbersome to use and took forever to compile anything. I didn't know enough at the time to do any code ananlysis, but from what I learned later on the VAX and PDP-11 (and doing object code analysis), I can't imagine the 6502 could do C well, for both stack usage (as you mentioned) and available registers (unless you used lots of zero-page as pseudo-registers). > The 6809 is geared more towards C (and higher level languages in general) > than the 6502. I'm not as familiar with the 6809 as I am with the 6502... what differences in architecture make it better? Larger stack frame? More (and larger) registers? > (Z80) may produce mediocre code. Is that inherent to the CPU architecture, or just a coincidence of how much effort people have (or have not) put into C compilers for 8-bit machines? The 1802 gets around a lot of the limitations of the 6502, from these aspects, but I don't recall seeing a C compiler for _that_ platform :-) -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 28-Apr-2004 07:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -74.5 F (-59.2 C) Windchill -112.4 F (-80.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8.5 kts Grid 069 Barometer 677.5 mb (10719. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From spc at conman.org Wed Apr 28 03:40:32 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? In-Reply-To: <20040428075427.GE30653@bos7.spole.gov> from "Ethan Dicks" at Apr 28, 2004 07:54:27 AM Message-ID: <20040428084032.904C110B2B48@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Ethan Dicks once stated: > > On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 06:33:35PM -0400, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > > The 6809 is geared more towards C (and higher level languages in general) > > than the 6502. > > I'm not as familiar with the 6809 as I am with the 6502... what differences > in architecture make it better? Larger stack frame? More (and larger) > registers? Yes to the above. The 6809 has the following: A - 8bit accumulator B - 8bit accumulator DP - 8bit Direct Page [1] CC - 8bit condition code D - 16bit accumulator (reg A MSB, reg B LSB) X - 16bit index Y - 16bit index S - 16bit stack [2] / index U - 16bit stack [3] / index PC - 16bit program counter [1] The 6809 uses this as the MSB for 8-bit direct addressing modes---it defaults to $00 on startup. [2] Hardware stack pointer, for use with BSR, JSR, and interrupts. Can also be used as an index register. [3] software stack pointer, meant to be used to pass parameters, but can also be used as an index register It also supports more addressing modes than the 6502 like position independant (indexed off PC) and indirect addressing (in C, this would be dereferencing a pointer). It also has a fairly orthogonal instruction set which also helps in compiler writing (in my opinion). Of all the 8bit CPUs, this happens to be my favorite. > > (Z80) may produce mediocre code. > > Is that inherent to the CPU architecture, or just a coincidence of how > much effort people have (or have not) put into C compilers for 8-bit > machines? Probably a bit of both. I know the instruction set of the 8080/Z80 is not as orthogonal as the 6800/6809, with quite a few specialized instructions, and only a single accumulator. To use the 8086 as an example (since it's derived from the 8080), it takes quite a bit of compiler smarts to turn: int i; char *s = src; char *d = dest; for (i = 0 ; i < SIZE ; i++) *d++ = *s++; into: mov cx,SIZE mov si,[bp + src] mov di,[bp + dest] rep movsb ; a smart compiler might realize that s,d and i aren't ; used after this point, and discard the follow ; instructions ... (and this applies to each of the examples ; below as well) mov [bp + src],si mov [bp + dest],di mov word ptr [bp + i],SIZE A horribly written C compiler might produce (and I have seen this): mov ax,[bp + src] mov [bp + s],ax mov ax,[bp + dest] mov [bp + d],ax mov word ptr [bp+i],0 loop: mov ax,[bp + i] cmp ax,SIZE je loop_exit mov bx,[bp + s] mov al,[bx] inc bx mov [bp + s],bx mov bx,[bp + d] mov [bx],al inc bx mov [bp + d],bx mov ax,[bp + i] inc ax mov [bp + i],ax jmps loop loop_exit: while a slightly better one would see that s and d are used as memory pointers, and that i is used as a counter so it too could be used in a register: xor dx,dx mov si,[bp + src] mov di,[bp + dest] loop: mov al,[si] inc si mov [di],al inc di inc dx, cmp dx,SIZE jl loop mov [bp + s],si mov [bp + d],di mov [bp + i],dx You get the idea. You, looking at the C code, can guess immediately that you should probably use REP MOVSB, but a compiler can't guess that outright, at least, not without a lot of smarts. On the 6809 though, will look more like the above sequence (assuming a half-way decent compiler) and that's about as good as you can get, since the 6809 doesn't have specialized instructions: clra clrb std i,u ldx src,u ldy dest,u loop: lda ,x+ sty ,y+ ldd i,u addd #1 std i,u cmpd #SIZE bne loop stx src,u sty dest,u Although, if SIZE doesn't exceed 255, the compiler could produce: clrb ldx src,u ldy dest,u loop: lda ,x+ sta ,y+ incb cmpb #SIZE bne loop ldb #SIZE clr i_high,u stb i_low,u stx src,u sty dest,u Of course, you should replace: for (i = 0 ; i < SIZE ; i++) *d++ = *s++; with memcpy(dest,src,SIZE); which a C compiler is free to replace with: mov cx,SIZE mov si,[bp + src] mov di,[bp + dest] rep movsb or (on a 6809): ldb #SIZE ; assuming SIZE < 256 ldx src,u ldy dest,u loop: lda ,x+ sta ,y+ decb bne loop Even a poorly written compiler can be written with *that* amount of smarts (basically, inlining anything defined in ). But I'm digressing. -spc (Okay, should probably go to bed now ... ) From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Apr 28 04:18:10 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 27 April 2004 22:23 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Mac IIfx update > > > Heh, about time to try swapping in a known good IIfx motherboard. ;) > > Or actually fixing the problem properly by making some > measurements and finding what's failed rather than replacing > random parts until the fault goes away. As I've said before, > this is no way to fix anything, certainly not a computer! Well, like I posted yesterday I've cleaned and dismantled the PSU and verified it's not giving out any voltage at all. There's evidence of heat damage on what looks like ballast resistors next to a relay that must be triggered by the 5V ADB line to actually powerup the PSU, but I'd guess those things get hot anyways. There's a pic at http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/DSCF6517.JPG. The cracking in the post-assembly hot glue can be seen lower left of the pic. (I know that doesn't help you, Tony :) The resistors are marked '5W 100ohm J MICRON 8DT' and there's evidence of solder 'leakage' on the solder side of the board but again I guess that's down to operational heat rather than excessive heat? Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Apr 28 06:10:20 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: SCSI disk spin-down question Message-ID: <1083150620.3037.5.camel@weka.localdomain> Not sure if this it OT or not! Anyone know if all SCSI disks support spin-down under software control? Is it a SCSI-1 and above thing, SCSI-2 and above, or something which is only implemented by some manufacturers? (Or maybe it only applies to modern disks with an SCA infterface even?) I'm just thinking about putting some more drives in the home fileserver - but it's noisy enough already, hence I'd like to be able to power-down disks I'm not using except for when I need them. Possibly even hooking into samba code to spin the disks down after x minutes of inactivity and only spin them back up when a data request comes in... As all my classic comp data will be on said drives I suppose that sort-of makes it on topic :-) cheers Jules From dave04a at dunfield.com Wed Apr 28 06:25:52 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: 6809 (was: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII?) Message-ID: <200404281125.i3SBPqdl021958@huey.classiccmp.org> >> I'm not as familiar with the 6809 as I am with the 6502... what differences >> in architecture make it better? Larger stack frame? More (and larger) >> registers? > It also supports more addressing modes than the 6502 like position >independant (indexed off PC) and indirect addressing (in C, this would be >dereferencing a pointer). It also has a fairly orthogonal instruction set >which also helps in compiler writing (in my opinion). Of all the 8bit CPUs, >this happens to be my favorite. One of the biggest advantages of the 6809 to a compiler is the fact that it does all kinds of stack relative addressing. The 6502 can't even push/pop all of it's registers let alone perform relative or indirect stack addressing with them... This ability makes it very easy to deal with C's stack based local variables. For example, you can access memory on the stack (or through any index register) with a 0, 5, 8 or 16 bit offset, and you can use an 8 or 16 bit accumulator to calculate an offset. You can also perform indirect operations using stack based pointers, all in a single instruction. Plus, all index and stack registers on the 09 are 16 bits. The 6502's 8-bit index registers are somewhat at odds with C's notion that a pointer can point 'anywhere'. So, on the 6502, you end up using zero page 16 bit "registers" a lot, and these involve more overhead to manipulate. The 6809 is also my favorite 8-bitter (perhaps that's why there's 6 CoCo's in my collecion). The very first edition of my C compiler was targeted to the 6809. At one point I even designed my own portable 6809 computer (hardware and software), you can see it (and even try it out with a simulator) at my "old computers" page: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html Look for entry called "D6809". In addition to the OS, the system has a "bunch" of utilities, several editors, an assembler and a simple implementation of APL. there's even an 8080 emulator which allowed me to easily bring over code from my Altair which was my main computing platform prior to this one. It's disappointing that the 6809 never received as much acceptance or use as it should have. It was truly in a class by itself. Motorola documents show two circles, one containing the words "8-bit" and one containing the words "16-bit". A third circle, linking the other two contains the word "M6809", and this is a good description of the part. It was an 8-bit CPU with a great deal of 16 bit capability. Btw, I have scanned the "Motorola M6809-M6809E Microprocessor Programming Manual" and a fair bit of other 6809 reference material, which is all available on my site. Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From brad at heeltoe.com Wed Apr 28 08:39:02 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: semi-OT: text lites In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:20:40 EDT." <063c01c42c95$1cbfd620$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <200404281339.i3SDd2I21542@mwave.heeltoe.com> "John Allain" wrote: >Anybody know how to do serial port access >to a "Text Lite" LED text display? I have about >three feet of one of them here. I wrote some code long ago for the "ProLite" displays, which have a serial port. It was basically an interface to TCL. I think it would read email also :-) (so people could email messages to the sign) if you've got a "prolite", let me know and I'll send it to you. -brad From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 28 09:19:31 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: specs for Canon MDD 210 disk drive? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040428101931.0089c390@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I picked up two of these yesterday. I THINK they may be 80 TPI DD drives but I cant the spcs anywhere. Does anyone have the specs and/or the DIP switch settings for them? For some reason all the specs that I can find only go back to the model 221. Joe From mtapley at swri.edu Wed Apr 28 09:27:26 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? In-Reply-To: <200404280758.i3S7wZdl020892@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200404280758.i3S7wZdl020892@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: At 2:58 -0500 4/28/04, (digest time), Ram wrote: >Or you can read it online at: > >http://web.archive.org/web/20030207005349/www.pseudorandom.org/kandr/kandr.html > >Cheers, well, I was able to read the table of contents, but not any of the chapter links I tried. I suspect there may be copyright issues. 'sok for me, I have both first and second editions. -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 28 10:02:15 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Apr 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > What I really want is to write programs for my Apple IIc+. fast > programs. I think learning assembly language is the best way to go then. It's not difficult, and the experience will be much more rewarding than trying to use Aztech C on the Apple ][. > I want to write a LIFE program (cells, patterns movement) Basic is too > slow. (I don't think I even have integer basic) I eventually want to > be able to write .system files that prodos can run. Integer BASIC wouldn't give you any advantages here. > I was asking about Aztec C cuz I have a copy. Aztec seems to have an > assemble step, which means it has an assembler in there. Maybe. > The problem is that I don't know how to setup the files so the compliler > actually works. Aztec currently lives on 4 5.25" diskettes, and I only > have a single 5.25" drive. I have two 3.5" drives, I would rather run > Aztec from the 3.5" drives. Copy all the files from the 5.25" disks to 3.5" disks. I'm not sure if Aztech will know what's going on though. Your best bet is to find a cheap hard drive that you can copy everything to. This guy made an IDE interface for the Apple ][: http://s.guillard.free.fr/Apple2IDE/Apple2IDE.htm He has the plans available for free and the parts cost less than $15 (according to him). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Apr 28 10:09:23 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: SCSI disk spin-down question References: <1083150620.3037.5.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <16527.51491.474000.235775@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jules" == Jules Richardson writes: Jules> Not sure if this it OT or not! Anyone know if all SCSI disks Jules> support spin-down under software control? Is it a SCSI-1 and Jules> above thing, SCSI-2 and above, or something which is only Jules> implemented by some manufacturers? (Or maybe it only applies Jules> to modern disks with an SCA infterface even?) It's in my SCSI-2 spec. So it's a standard command there ("Start/stop unit"). Don't know if it was in SCSI-1. It's marked Optional, so disks don't have to implement it. My impression is that they usually do, though. paul From allain at panix.com Wed Apr 28 10:26:06 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: semi-OT: text lites References: <200404281339.i3SDd2I21542@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <035b01c42d35$20b70b40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I wrote some code long ago for the "ProLite" displays, It's a "text lite mm500", made in Ireland apparently for a german company (www.textlite.de I think). Seems to want about 6V 1A. The serial port is a 1/8" phono-stereo jack so I'm tempted to try the cord for my digital cam on it, a better than 1:6 chance of the connections being right. There are three other ports: synch in/out and a 14 pin IDC. I think the synchs allow scrolling across multiple lines of display. If you your serial port is a 1/8" I'd be interested in the signal assignments. John A. From pechter at ureach.com Tue Apr 27 11:07:11 2004 From: pechter at ureach.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: Looking for MacIIfx internal SCSI terminator Message-ID: <408E852F.6070207@ureach.com> Anyone know where I can find one? Bill -- Bill Pechter Systems Administrator uReach Technologies 732-335-5432 Office 877-661-2126 Fax 877-661-2126 uNumber From paulrsm at buckeye-express.com Tue Apr 27 14:19:11 2004 From: paulrsm at buckeye-express.com (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? Message-ID: <380-220044227191911256@buckeye-express.com> Please see: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2004-February/036938.html I have promised this to several folks but I have not yet found the 8086 compiler manual to scan. I am still going through my storage area. If anyone else wants a copy then please send me an email and I will put you on the list. -- Paul Monroe, Michigan USA paulrsm@buckeye-express.com From paulrsm at buckeye-express.com Tue Apr 27 14:20:58 2004 From: paulrsm at buckeye-express.com (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: looking for SC Assembler for the Apple II Message-ID: <380-220044227192058878@buckeye-express.com> For SC software, please see: http://www.stjarnhimlen.se/apple2/dsk.html -- Paul Monroe, Michigan USA From sieler at allegro.com Tue Apr 27 18:24:47 2004 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: Weird items on VCM In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040426212038.04fbbba0@pc> References: <001201c4289f$1944d8f0$a0340f14@mcothran1> Message-ID: <408E894F.6925.D2F44B@localhost> Re: > >I did find reference to the Remington-Rand 256 bit tube. Check this out: > >http://www.feb-patrimoine.com/Histoire/english/information_technology/inform An ad for it didn't sell on eBay recently: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=21092&item=3671707906&rd= 1&ssPageName=WDVW seller: kims-vintage-ads (I mention this in case the winner would like to contact "Kim" to buy the ad) -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From sml49 at comcast.net Tue Apr 27 21:38:10 2004 From: sml49 at comcast.net (Seth Lewin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: Mac Iifx Update In-Reply-To: <200404271520.i3RFKVdr015473@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: >> I would take everything out, memory, drives etc., use a known >> good apple brand mouse and keyboard and see if some minimum >> system doesn't get some kind of response. ADB, SCSI, and >> memory can all look like this IIRC. > > I thought the fx required memory to be present to boot? So far my minimal > system has been system ROM/memory/known good kb/rodent but I still don't get > +5V on the ADB cable to the keyboard or anywhere on the motherboard > connector.....it's looking very dead-PSU-ish now. > I had a somewhat similar experience with a Iici - there's something touchy about the portion of the power supply circuitry that trickles a milliamp or so of +5 to the logic board to enable startup. Also - does the fx PSU have one of those push-and-lock-in power switches on the back? Iici's do and sometimes fiddling with that will have a beneficial effect. Worth a try. Seth Lewin From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Wed Apr 28 07:31:00 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: SCSI disk spin-down question In-Reply-To: <1083150620.3037.5.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1083150620.3037.5.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040428081049.022fae20@24.161.37.215> Firsthand knowledge and experience as a Seagate Partner discussing this with several Seagate support technicians: Most SCSI disc drives support spin down, but not all. For spin down to work, there has to be several things. 1- the system must have software support to tell the drive when to spin down (this may include or already be included in firmware on the SCSI drive and/or controller). 2- the system has to properly see the drive. On many instances, I have seen systems that never spin the drive down until powered off because the drive is not seen as a proper drive (IE: using a drive larger than what can be seen by SCSI BIOS, or as some know, using a drive as a 'dumb' replacement for an older one that failed (see huge full-height Seagate SCSI drives for older systems - Dave Woyciesjes knows about this as I personally know of him implementing such a thing)). 3- there must be a trigger to cause the spin down (time out delay, overheat, software command during diagnostics, etc.). I hope that helps a bit. Oh, and almost forgot: I do know of some SCSI drives that were never made with the spin down command (which I know is odd since I believe it is part of the SCSI protocol, etc.) - Maxtor made a small line with them and talking to Seagate, they had at least 2 of them that lacked it. There are most likely a few from other brands, but those are the ones I know of as is. One last thing: for spin down, you don't need to have SCA. It can be just about any SCSI interface or version from what I've been told. What you are thinking about is spin down linked with hot swap, which is something else (SCA only). This is because SCA has the power and SCSI all going through one interface and circuit controlled. Other interfaces lack that and will cause power fluctuations and SCSI errors that in many cases will lock a system (a few older systems would sometimes forgive you and let the disturbance slide without locking up). Spin down was included in the specs because of power saving features. The drive would still draw a little power and come back if an init or access (read/write, etc.) command was passed. The spin down with SCA drives allows with firmware and circuitry to make it ok to pull the drive with that small amount of voltage left and automatically adjust for the change in number of drives, etc. Hope that helps. If need be, I can email you links to several references on this topic, including white papers, tech specs for whatever drives you get and software. Let me know how it goes. -John Boffemmyer IV At 07:10 AM 4/28/2004, you wrote: >Not sure if this it OT or not! Anyone know if all SCSI disks support >spin-down under software control? Is it a SCSI-1 and above thing, SCSI-2 >and above, or something which is only implemented by some manufacturers? >(Or maybe it only applies to modern disks with an SCA infterface even?) > >I'm just thinking about putting some more drives in the home fileserver >- but it's noisy enough already, hence I'd like to be able to power-down >disks I'm not using except for when I need them. Possibly even hooking >into samba code to spin the disks down after x minutes of inactivity and >only spin them back up when a data request comes in... > >As all my classic comp data will be on said drives I suppose that >sort-of makes it on topic :-) > >cheers > >Jules ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Wed Apr 28 07:34:37 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: semi-OT: text lites In-Reply-To: <20040428074310.GC30653@bos7.spole.gov> References: <063c01c42c95$1cbfd620$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <200404272132.i3RLWUUD028724@onyx.spiritone.com> <20040428074310.GC30653@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040428083117.022fab90@24.161.37.215> Quite nifty Ethan. Was thinking about tossing a serial LCD or maybe parallel on my old P200MMX (older than 10 years now - on topic I guess) system that I'm scrapping together to make a file server out of. It always helps to know a contributor to something being used is just a forum post away =) BTW: how's the weather down there? Heard you guys were getting smacked with some serious winds the other day. -John Boffemmyer IV At 03:43 AM 4/28/2004, you wrote: >On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 02:32:30PM -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > Anybody know how to do serial port access > > > to a "Text Lite" LED text display? I have about > > > three feet of one of them here. > >Hmm... sounds like something fun to play with. > > > Try doing a Google search on them, there at least used to be a project that > > involved interfacing such things (though smaller ones). Ah, I still have a > > bookmark... http://lcdproc.omnipotent.net/ Don't know if this will be any > > help, but it is interesting. > >That's a good project (I'm one of the contributors - for the PIC-an-LCD >driver, among other things)... still active, too. > >-ethan > >-- >Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 28-Apr-2004 07:40 Z >South Pole Station >PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -74.3 F (-59.1 C) Windchill -118.5 F (-83.7 C) >APO AP 96598 Wind 9.80 kts Grid 073 Barometer 677.4 mb (10723. ft) > >Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov >http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Apr 28 11:19:49 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Adrian) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: Mac Iifx Update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200404281633.i3SGXKdl023533@huey.classiccmp.org> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Seth Lewin > Sent: 28 April 2004 03:38 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Mac Iifx Update > > I had a somewhat similar experience with a Iici - there's > something touchy about the portion of the power supply > circuitry that trickles a milliamp or so of +5 to the logic > board to enable startup. Also - does the fx PSU have one of > those push-and-lock-in power switches on the back? Iici's do > and sometimes fiddling with that will have a beneficial > effect. Worth a try. It's a push-to-make power button rather than a switch....I'm currently trying to find time to check the PSU but my new job starts on tuesday so this is my last week of unemployment! Cheers w From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Apr 28 11:27:43 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: Wang Dumb Term +other Stuff on eBay Message-ID: A bunch of Daisy wheels - scads of manuals, etc, plus this ADM-ish Wang badged terminal - going cheap, no bids, 2 days left: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3666&item=3476824111&rd=1 Cheerz John From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Wed Apr 28 11:34:17 2004 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: Mac Iifx Update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1gcy50w.a7hd60pigflsM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Seth Lewin wrote: > >> I would take everything out, memory, drives etc., use a known > >> good apple brand mouse and keyboard and see if some minimum > >> system doesn't get some kind of response. ADB, SCSI, and > >> memory can all look like this IIRC. > > > > I thought the fx required memory to be present to boot? So far my minimal > > system has been system ROM/memory/known good kb/rodent but I still don't get > > +5V on the ADB cable to the keyboard or anywhere on the motherboard > > connector.....it's looking very dead-PSU-ish now. > > > > I had a somewhat similar experience with a Iici - there's something touchy > about the portion of the power supply circuitry that trickles a milliamp or > so of +5 to the logic board to enable startup. Also - does the fx PSU have > one of those push-and-lock-in power switches on the back? Iici's do and > sometimes fiddling with that will have a beneficial effect. Worth a try. Eleven years ago, 1993, this was the reason I got on the internet. I had a IIcx that didn't want to start. Over a few months it got worse and worse. Until it wouldn't start at all anymore. So I searched usenet and found that the IIci and IIcx power suppilies were all failing in the same manner. Dead solder joints on the trickly charge portion of the unit. It said to take the PSU apart and re-solder every joint on the entire circuit board. Because who knows which one went bad. I did it, and the PSU has worked fine ever since! -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com Bright From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Apr 28 12:00:37 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: Mac Iifx Update In-Reply-To: <1gcy50w.a7hd60pigflsM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <200404281714.i3SHE8dl025254@huey.classiccmp.org> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of tim lindner > Sent: 28 April 2004 17:34 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Mac Iifx Update > > So I searched usenet and found that the IIci and IIcx power > suppilies were all failing in the same manner. Dead solder > joints on the trickly charge portion of the unit. > > It said to take the PSU apart and re-solder every joint on > the entire circuit board. Because who knows which one went bad. > > I did it, and the PSU has worked fine ever since! Oddly enough this PSU has a lot of dull looking connections on it so resoldering is exactly what I'm going to do :) Cheers w From brianmahoney at look.ca Wed Apr 28 12:06:27 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: Weird items on VCM References: <001201c4289f$1944d8f0$a0340f14@mcothran1> <408E894F.6925.D2F44B@localhost> Message-ID: <000d01c42d43$36ebd360$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan Sieler" To: "John Foust" ; Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 7:24 PM Subject: Re: Weird items on VCM > Re: > > >I did find reference to the Remington-Rand 256 bit tube. Check this out: > > >http://www.feb-patrimoine.com/Histoire/english/information_technology/infor m > > An ad for it didn't sell on eBay recently: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=21092&item=3671707906&rd= > 1&ssPageName=WDVW > > seller: kims-vintage-ads > > (I mention this in case the winner would like to contact "Kim" to buy > the ad) > -- > Stan Sieler > sieler@allegro.com > www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html > This looks like an ad from National Geographic. You can pick up the mags for a buck here in Toronto at any number of places. I have one of an IBM 'electronic calculator' that replaces 50 engineers with sliderules. It's from February 1952. The only reason I buy them when I see them is for the ads. bm From ggs at shiresoft.com Wed Apr 28 12:07:45 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: truckload of PDP stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1083172065.5907.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-04-27 at 14:00, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > In going through one of the small boxes I found a very strange looking > > > cable. It had flip chip paddles on one end and centronics connectors > > > (2) on the other. The cable itself was twisted pair wire bunched > > > together. It took a few minutes to realize that this cable goes to > > > between a Fabritec memory expansion and an 8/I. This cable is > > > completely undocumented!!! > > It can't take that long to buzz out the connections, surely? Yea, but you need the cable first! -- TTFN - Guy From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Apr 28 12:17:39 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:09 2005 Subject: truckload of PDP stuff In-Reply-To: <1083172065.5907.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Apr 2004, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > > It can't take that long to buzz out the connections, surely? > > Yea, but you need the cable first! No, Guy... Tony can do that *without* the cable. What we did NOT tell him, of course, is that he wont be getting any drawings either, so he will have to work with just the PDP8 and the mem box.. ;-) --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 28 12:23:26 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: Mac Iifx Update In-Reply-To: <1gcy50w.a7hd60pigflsM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Apr 2004, tim lindner wrote: > So I searched usenet and found that the IIci and IIcx power suppilies > were all failing in the same manner. Dead solder joints on the trickly > charge portion of the unit. > > It said to take the PSU apart and re-solder every joint on the entire > circuit board. Because who knows which one went bad. Well, THAT'S good to know. Seems even more useful than the "take the PRAM battery out" trick. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 28 12:24:25 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: truckload of PDP stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Apr 2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Wed, 28 Apr 2004, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > > > > It can't take that long to buzz out the connections, surely? > > > > Yea, but you need the cable first! > No, Guy... Tony can do that *without* the cable. What we did NOT > tell him, of course, is that he wont be getting any drawings either, > so he will have to work with just the PDP8 and the mem box.. ;-) Blind-folded, with one arm tied behind his back. My bets are still on Tony! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Apr 28 12:30:18 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: 6809 (was: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII?) References: <200404281125.i3SBPqdl021958@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <408FEA2A.1040906@jetnet.ab.ca> Dave Dunfield wrote: > It's disappointing that the 6809 never received as much acceptance or use as it should > have. It was truly in a class by itself. Motorola documents show two circles, one > containing the words "8-bit" and one containing the words "16-bit". A third circle, > linking the other two contains the word "M6809", and this is a good description of the > part. It was an 8-bit CPU with a great deal of 16 bit capability. In hindsight, the 6809 while the best 8 processer it only has 64k of memory space. Time has proved the 64k data and 64k program space and about 1 meg of memory ( something the PC-XT had or PDP11/unix ) was needed for useful programs with a resonable OS. Also since the only common 6809 system was by Radio Shack as games machine you never got the good I/O like lower case letters and a real serial and floppy drives. Ben. From dholland at woh.rr.com Wed Apr 28 12:36:56 2004 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1083173816.12033.73.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> On Wed, 2004-04-28 at 11:02, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 27 Apr 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: > > The problem is that I don't know how to setup the files so the compliler > > actually works. Aztec currently lives on 4 5.25" diskettes, and I only > > have a single 5.25" drive. I have two 3.5" drives, I would rather run > > Aztec from the 3.5" drives. > > Copy all the files from the 5.25" disks to 3.5" disks. I'm not sure if > Aztech will know what's going on though. Your best bet is to find a cheap > hard drive that you can copy everything to. > > This guy made an IDE interface for the Apple ][: > > http://s.guillard.free.fr/Apple2IDE/Apple2IDE.htm > > He has the plans available for free and the parts cost less than $15 > (according to him). If the guy has any left, you can go here: http://www.dreher.net/?s=projects/CFforAppleII&c=projects/CFforAppleII/main.php And get a little doo-hicky that'll let you use compact flash cards hard drives in a Apple2. (Albeit its more expensive. - I think it'll work as a single port IDE controller as well.) Now the nice thing about using CF cards, is you can rip the CF card out, plug it into your little 6-in-1 reader on your bigger Linux system, use DD to pull out the hard drive images, then use: http://search.cpan.org/~cjm/LibA2-0.003/ To manipulate the prodos image files directly on a Linux (or other Perl running) system. At least that's all in theory... I intend to use it to transfer/install 5.25" GEOS images to my Apple IIGS via this method as soon as I can manage to locate my forever lost "round-to-it".... (I think it partnered up w/ my motivation, and headed for the beach.. neither of which have been seen since.) David From ikvsabre at comcast.net Wed Apr 28 12:44:23 2004 From: ikvsabre at comcast.net (Joseph Stevenson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: Old software available References: <200404271815.OAA01080@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <002901c42d48$71c704a0$3714320a@njserve.aseco.net> I may still have my QEMM disk. I'll check when I get home. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Pope" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:15 PM Subject: Re: Old software available > And thusly SUPRDAVE@aol.com spake: > > > > MSDOS 6.21 3 disks > > Is this the entire installation? Speaking of this, does anyone have or > know where I can get a copy of QEMM? > > Cheers, > > Bryan > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Apr 28 12:45:28 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: Mac Iifx Update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200404281758.i3SHwwdl025860@huey.classiccmp.org> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage > Computer Festival > Sent: 28 April 2004 18:23 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Mac Iifx Update > > > It said to take the PSU apart and re-solder every joint on > the entire > > circuit board. Because who knows which one went bad. > > Well, THAT'S good to know. Seems even more useful than the > "take the PRAM battery out" trick. It's a bit drastic for people who get The Fear from soldering irons though: Stage 1: replace PRAM battery Stage 2: leave PRAM battery out for 24 hours Stage 3: fully dismantle and resolder entire PSU :o) Cheers w From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Apr 28 13:08:31 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: 6809 (was: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII?) In-Reply-To: <408FEA2A.1040906@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <200404281125.i3SBPqdl021958@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040428134650.048d46d8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that ben franchuk may have mentioned these words: >Dave Dunfield wrote: > >>It's disappointing that the 6809 never received as much acceptance or use >>as it should >>have. It was truly in a class by itself. Motorola documents show two >>circles, one >>containing the words "8-bit" and one containing the words "16-bit". A >>third circle, >>linking the other two contains the word "M6809", and this is a good >>description of the >>part. It was an 8-bit CPU with a great deal of 16 bit capability. I have a couple as well, and I thought it was quite descriptive of the processor's capabilities. I wonder what kind of neat logo we could come up with for the Hitachi 63C09... ;-) >In hindsight, the 6809 while the best 8 processer it only has 64k of >memory space. So? Most (all?) 8-bit CPUs have that "limitation" -> which can be easily overcome with bankswitching and other techniques... > Time has proved the 64k data and 64k program space and >about 1 meg of memory ( something the PC-XT had or PDP11/unix ) was needed >for useful programs with a resonable OS. 1) My CoCo3 has that -- except the program space was limited to about 40K, due to OS hooks... 512K Memory (rather easily upgraded to 2M, altho one guy stuffed 64Meg in his -- yes, it's possible!) and with 512K and OS-9, was (and is) infinitely more useful than *any* 386 I've seen, no matter how much storage it's stuffed with. My first 386 was a glorified Nintendo, my CoCo was still my main work machine. 2) Show me a "reasonable OS" for anything Intel based. Then show me the ones that existed back in '86 or before. Then show me the ones that will run on anything <'386. Then see if any are left that cost <$150. The list gets *real* small, *real* quick. OS-9 is a reasonable OS, was first written in '76, didn't need thousands of patches to support reasonable hardware (4G Hard Drive support in the OS, back in '82. Show me that on an Intel box...) > Also since the only >common 6809 system was by Radio Shack as games machine you never got the >good I/O like lower case letters and a real serial and floppy drives. >Ben. Game machine? Hardly... the Commodore & Atari were *much* better with games than the CoCo ever was. Floppy drives? RS drives were the best available for that class of market at the time. Machine Interface Storage Commodore 19200bps ser. 120K? thereabouts, please correct me. Atari 19200bps ser. 88K (single) 120K (enhanced) CoCo 250000bps par. 156K (standard) 720K (OS-9, stock controller) Heck, the CoCo tape unit is almost as fast as the Commie disk drive, and could be tweaked to go faster! Also, Later CoCo2s & all CoCo3s had lowercase builtin... and RS had a cartridge that would give you a full 80x25 mono screen w/lower case (and full decenders, too!) if you needed to "get down to business"... and my CoCo3's max screen was 106x28 chars... great for spreadsheets! How does [[ Crappy graphics, crappy sound, great I/O speeds & Unix-class multitasking OSs ]] == "Game Machine"??? Hmmm... it seems that your recollection of history & mine are a wee bit different... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Profile, don't speculate." sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Daniel J. Bernstein zmerch@30below.com | From tomj at wps.com Wed Apr 28 13:23:18 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: still looking for... (DEC) In-Reply-To: <00b601c42c92$f30ed760$4aa94ed5@geoff> References: <000d01c42bf7$1d39f2f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <00b601c42c92$f30ed760$4aa94ed5@geoff> Message-ID: <1083176597.1872.2.camel@dhcp-248119.mobile.uci.edu> On Tue, 2004-04-27 at 12:57, Geoffrey Thomas wrote: > I heard they were power hungry , but this is ridiculous ! Non-volatile memory implemented in carved stone tablets is also slow. > From: "Jay West" > > Looking for a pair of 64kw memory boards for an 11/45. Anyone have some to > > trade? From tomj at wps.com Wed Apr 28 13:25:22 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: still looking for... (DEC) In-Reply-To: <01f701c42c9f$305c6400$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <000d01c42bf7$1d39f2f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <00b601c42c92$f30ed760$4aa94ed5@geoff> <01f701c42c9f$305c6400$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <1083176721.1872.4.camel@dhcp-248119.mobile.uci.edu> On Tue, 2004-04-27 at 14:32, Jay West wrote: > But Geoff, when I said 64kw memory boards, I was referring to kilowords, not > kilowatts *GRIN* Too late now, when the truck pulls up to your house you better have a damn loading dock. From tomj at wps.com Wed Apr 28 13:39:55 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: 8-bit C, was Re: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? In-Reply-To: <20040428075427.GE30653@bos7.spole.gov> References: <20040427223335.C173E10B1310@swift.conman.org> <20040428075427.GE30653@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <1083177594.2332.16.camel@dhcp-248119.mobile.uci.edu> On Wed, 2004-04-28 at 00:54, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I'm not as familiar with the 6809 as I am with the 6502... what differences > in architecture make it better? Larger stack frame? More (and larger) > registers? The 6809, in my opinion, was the prettiest instruction set of any of the 8bit+ processors. It had two 16-bit index regs, A, B, good addressing modes, post/pre inc/decrement, stack frame pointers or something? blah blah blah. It's like it was designed for assembly programmers like me who grew up on the classic mini-era machines. Too bad for me, I never got to use it. > > (Z80) may produce mediocre code. > > Is that inherent to the CPU architecture, or just a coincidence of how > much effort people have (or have not) put into C compilers for 8-bit > machines? Both, I think, but also software, author and industry maturity. I used Leor Zolman's BDS C on the 8080/8085/Z80 for years, and I used a custom printf() up through the 90's that I derived from Leor's code! BDS was a fantastic software package. We evaluated Whitesmith's C and BDS; whitesmith was far more correct, but: expensive, very slow and cumbersome (3 - 6 passes?!), very closed, snotty and difficult to deal with them. BDS was cheap, friendly, hackable, modest, too-small libraries, incompatible, and you could write real code, extend the libraries easily (I added standard unix type read(), open() write() etc instead of the default FCB type junk!) in either BDS C or M80. And you could call him on the phone!! I woke him up once, how's that for accessibility? I heard that he was a law student and BDS C paid for part of his expenses... BDS == Brain Dead Software. I do miss those days. tomj > The 1802 gets around a lot of the limitations of the 6502, from these > aspects, but I don't recall seeing a C compiler for _that_ platform :-) D'OH! :-) From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Apr 28 13:55:47 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: looking for SC Assembler for the Apple II References: <380-220044227192058878@buckeye-express.com> Message-ID: <007501c42d52$6b1198a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> You ROCK! Thanks Paul! J ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul R. Santa-Maria" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:20 PM Subject: looking for SC Assembler for the Apple II > For SC software, please see: > > http://www.stjarnhimlen.se/apple2/dsk.html > > -- > Paul > Monroe, Michigan USA > > > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Apr 28 14:00:39 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: Help with ID for Digital cable Message-ID: <005401c42d53$1a39af20$16406b43@66067007> Does anyone know what this cable is used for? digital BC29H-2E, Rev-B01, 47746 are the numbers on it. Thanks From dave04a at dunfield.com Wed Apr 28 14:21:02 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: 6809 (was: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII?) Message-ID: <200404281921.i3SJL2dl026514@huey.classiccmp.org> >I have a couple as well, and I thought it was quite descriptive of the >processor's capabilities. I wonder what kind of neat logo we could come up >with for the Hitachi 63C09... ;-) You could make the circles '?'marks - for all the undocumented opcodes! >>In hindsight, the 6809 while the best 8 processer it only has 64k of >>memory space. > >So? Most (all?) 8-bit CPUs have that "limitation" -> which can be easily >overcome with bankswitching and other techniques... I agree that standard 16 bit 64k addressing should not have kept the processor from becoming more widespread than it did - look at the Z80 and 6502 - both less capable processors, both with "only" 64k and both received much more acceptance than the 6809. I do think that a natural progression in the 6809 family (had it continued) would have been an integrated segmented or bank switched memory manager - this could have been worked quite nicely into the 09 architecture. >> Also since the only >>common 6809 system was by Radio Shack as games machine you never got the >>good I/O like lower case letters and a real serial and floppy drives. >>Ben. > >Game machine? Hardly... the Commodore & Atari were *much* better with games >than the CoCo ever was. Floppy drives? RS drives were the best available >for that class of market at the time. I 1/2 agree (with each of you) - the original CoCo (and even the CoCo2) were somewhat limited, and more importantly packaged (CoCo1) and marketed as a cheap home console computer. Not so much a game console (although the cartridge slot does suggest this), but as a cheap "toy" computer (that happened to play a bunch of cartridge games). The CoCo3 was a marked improvement, however it was too little/too late, and as no one else had really picked up the CPU, it got the reputation as an "oddball". I do agree on the RS drive - the drive cartridge used a standard floppy controller chip (and you could use standard off-the-shelf drives) and interfaced directly to the 09 bus through the cartridge slot - much better/faster then the custom serial drive offerings by the "other guys". But, I also think that having to use a cartridge for the drive seems a bit goofy - why not have implemented a drive interface native to the machine? I designed and built my own 6809 based workstations - both the homebrew ones shown on my web page, and a couple of custom bus/racked limited production designs for a couple of "big" companies as in-house test platforms - These "serious" systems were remarkably powerful for their time, and gave a truer impression of the 6809's potential than the CoCo which hid that power beneath a flimsy and toyish looking case, an inadaquate keyboard (CoCo1) and artifically limiting system software (for example, the CoCo ROM's required DP to be "Page Zero" - and hogged most of it). >How does [[ Crappy graphics, crappy sound, great I/O speeds & Unix-class >multitasking OSs ]] == "Game Machine"??? Speaking of multitasking, there's a really nice feature of the 6809 that is often ignored, however I used this in a number of 6809 based products that I designed to implement very fast simple multitasking. This feature is the "Direct Page" register! - Unlike other CPU's which use "zero page", the 6809 has DP which means that you can place your "zero page" at any 256 byte boundary. This register is also saved and restored during a full interrupt, meaning that in a multitasking system, each task can have it own "zero page". This makes for compact code (many tasks never need to use extended addressing for memory references). Here's an example of a ultra simple task swapper in only 5 instruction, in which each task runs in round-robin fashion, requiring only 3 bytes in each tasks "page" - there is no system task control blocks/tables: ; Interrupt saves all registers (can be SWI for volentary swap) INTHND: STS If anyone is interested, I just posted the following on VCM: * Apple IIe Enhanced, 64K, two Disk II drives, one Unidisk 5.25" drive, one Unidisk 3.5" drive, ProDOS, three disk controllers, three Super Serial cards, one parallel interface card w/cable, and AppleColor Composite Monitor. * Commodore C64 in original carton, power supply, manual, composite video cable and switchbox. * Commodore 1541 disk drive with Zork I, II, III, Pinball Construction Set, more. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 28 14:17:09 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: 6809 (was: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII?) In-Reply-To: <408FEA2A.1040906@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <200404281125.i3SBPqdl021958@huey.classiccmp.org> <408FEA2A.1040906@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20040428120914.S60770@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 28 Apr 2004, ben franchuk wrote: > In hindsight, the 6809 while the best 8 processer it only has 64k of > memory space. Time has proved the 64k data and 64k program space and > about 1 meg of memory ( something the PC-XT had or PDP11/unix ) was > needed for useful programs with a resonable OS. Also since the only Moore's law observes that size doubles every 18 months. Boyle's law observes that software expands to fit all available space. My corollary observes that Boyle's law leads Moore's. But "needed"???!? If the meg, or more, of memory is there, then it will be used. That doesn't mean that it is necessary. > common 6809 system was by Radio Shack as games machine you never got the > good I/O like lower case letters and a real serial and floppy drives. I agree that Radio Shack crippled certain aspects of the Coco. I always assumed that that was to avoid it outperforming their Model II "business" computer. But the floppy drives of the Coco were industry standard units, with an industry standard (SA400) interface, with an industry standard (WD179x) controller, to produce an industry standard MFM encoding. From tomj at wps.com Wed Apr 28 14:38:23 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: Help ID/recovery of unknown word-processor files? Message-ID: <1083181102.1900.5.camel@dhcp-248119> My brother interviewed two women who drove across the U.S. by themselves back in 1920-something (a substantial feat, if you know anything about U.S. culture then or 1920's roads and automobiles), published a little 500-copy book of it. It's long since disappeared, and never got the attention it deserved. I want to put it on the web. He's gone now, and so is the computer the files were typed on, and I don't even know if it was CP/M, Mac, PC or what. They have extentions of "CWK" and simple 8-char filenames. I know that's CP/M or DOS like, but they may be exports. I want to convert them to something "portable" (sic) and eventually HTML. Luckily the images are all TIFFs, and load with GIMP with ignorable errors. There's 41 MB of CWK files, about 40 of them. Any suggestions? A sample file is at http://wps.com/temp/A01.CWK List relevancy: they are > 10 years old and produced on a computer. From Sharp51482 at aol.com Wed Apr 28 14:45:12 2004 From: Sharp51482 at aol.com (Sharp51482@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: Help ID/recovery of unknown word-processor files? Message-ID: <80.a7bddbc.2dc163c8@aol.com> CWK That extension would most likely be ClarisWorks on a MAC, and any new version of AppleWorks should open it. Thanks, Blu From cb at mythtech.net Wed Apr 28 14:49:42 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: Help ID/recovery of unknown word-processor files? Message-ID: >He's gone now, and so is the computer the files were typed on, and I >don't even know if it was CP/M, Mac, PC or what. They have extentions of >"CWK" and simple 8-char filenames. I know that's CP/M or DOS like, but >they may be exports. CWK was used by Claris Works on windows I can open and translate those to another program if you would like (MS Word perhaps?). I may also have an old copy of Claris Works for windows I can send you if you'd like to try to work on them directly (probably Win 3.x, maybe Win 95) I just tested your test file and was successful in translating it to MS Word. -chris From cb at mythtech.net Wed Apr 28 14:50:44 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: Help ID/recovery of unknown word-processor files? Message-ID: >That extension would most likely be ClarisWorks on a MAC Mac's don't use 3 letter extensions (well, not ClarisWorks era Macs at least)... but you are right, it is ClarisWorks... just for Windows (yes, amazingly, Apple wrote and sold Windows software) -chris From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Apr 28 15:03:19 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: Bernoulli 90meg disks available Message-ID: <10f.2f22ea43.2dc16807@aol.com> I've 8 total, with backup data on them, but have no drive to read the disks. In good shape with their cardboard slipcovers. $1.17 each plus whatever it costs to ship. Prefer to sell the entire lot rather than individually. From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Apr 28 15:16:13 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: Fastest VLB Video Card for Windows 3.11 Message-ID: <00ce01c42d5d$a75a54e0$962a1941@game> A while ago I put together a 486/66 system to play around with all my windows 3.1 apps I have used in the past. I was wondering what the fastest VLB video card ever made for windows 3.1x was. I remember Diamond bragging about its Viper cards back in the day being the best, but who knows. Google has allot of information about what the best DOS gaming card was, but not that much on windows 3.1 (which is what I am interested in). Also what's the best video intensive benchmarking app to test out cards with? I have the following cards (and others but they are slower): Diamond Viper VLB 1mb VRAM Diamond Viper VLB 2mb VRAM (while both have the P9000 chip for windows acceleration they have 2 different chips for vga) Diamond Video 3000 (Stealth 64 Video Vram VLB) 4mb (S3 968 Chipset) Diamond Speedstar pro VLB 1mb DRAM Hercules graphite 1mb VRAM (IIT chipset) Matrox Plus 2mb VLB (early matrox chip and a very long card that has space for another 2mb vram) These cards are from the early 90's so it should be on-topic for the list. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 28 15:45:38 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: specs for Canon MDD 210 disk drive? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040428101931.0089c390@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040428101931.0089c390@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040428134407.J60770@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 28 Apr 2004, Joe R. wrote: > I picked up two of these yesterday. I THINK they may be 80 TPI DD drives > but I cant the spcs anywhere. Does anyone have the specs and/or the DIP > switch settings for them? For some reason all the specs that I can find > only go back to the model 221. My recollection (no longer reliable) was that those were 80 track (96tpi) Google says that Herb Johnson http://pluto.njcc.com/~hjohnson/s_drives.html has manuals for them From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Apr 28 15:59:08 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: 6809 (was: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII?) References: <200404281125.i3SBPqdl021958@huey.classiccmp.org> <5.1.0.14.2.20040428134650.048d46d8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <40901B1C.8010203@jetnet.ab.ca> Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that ben franchuk may have mentioned these words: Forget this RUMOR crap! I DID SAY IT! > Game machine? Hardly... the Commodore & Atari were *much* better with > games than the CoCo ever was. Floppy drives? RS drives were the best > available for that class of market at the time. For a short time I did have a Coco 3, but 1) Could never get the memory upgade, 2) The monitor for the Coco 3 died and 3)I never did get OS9/II. The real computer system for the 6809 was not the COCO Crap but stuff I am finding out only now from the outdated systems. The COCO was marketed as home computer, thus games and BASIC programs were the main market. Ben. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Apr 28 16:06:39 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: 6809 (was: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII?) References: <200404281125.i3SBPqdl021958@huey.classiccmp.org> <408FEA2A.1040906@jetnet.ab.ca> <20040428120914.S60770@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <40901CDF.90701@jetnet.ab.ca> Fred Cisin wrote: > On Wed, 28 Apr 2004, ben franchuk wrote: standard (WD179x) controller, to produce an industry standard MFM encoding. And a cheap dirty WD179x interface that hogged the processor when doing I/O. Serial I/O was bit banged ... etc ... etc ... It just cost cut too many corners. Ben. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 28 17:07:59 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? In-Reply-To: <1083173816.12033.73.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Apr 2004, David Holland wrote: > If the guy has any left, you can go here: > > http://www.dreher.net/?s=projects/CFforAppleII&c=projects/CFforAppleII/main.php Ah yes, very cool. There was also a guy who built an Apple ][ card with a laptop IDE harddrive on-board (I believe) but I couldn't locate his site. > Now the nice thing about using CF cards, is you can rip the CF card out, > plug it into your little 6-in-1 reader on your bigger Linux system, use > DD to pull out the hard drive images, then use: > > http://search.cpan.org/~cjm/LibA2-0.003/ > > To manipulate the prodos image files directly on a Linux (or other Perl > running) system. Wow, cool! I didn't realize these Perl libraries were out there. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From Steve at OceanRobots.net Wed Apr 28 11:28:30 2004 From: Steve at OceanRobots.net (Steve Stutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: Sun-3 hardware available, Bristol UK Message-ID: <408FDBAE.4070308@OceanRobots.net> Hi John, Looking for a Sun 3 hardware manual for research project. I'm in US; would have it picked up by courier. I send gift certificate or something cool from Boston, US in appreciation. Thanks, Steve From lmiller at aero.org Wed Apr 28 14:23:04 2004 From: lmiller at aero.org (Lawrence H. Miller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: TI-1500 Message-ID: <40900498.202@aero.org> In Nov of 2002 you asked about a TI-1500. I have a need to inspect one, and I'm wondering if you were able to find anyone with an operational system. Larry Miller The Aerospace Corporation 310-336-5597 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 28 17:36:15 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: truckload of PDP stuff In-Reply-To: <1083172065.5907.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> from "Guy Sotomayor" at Apr 28, 4 10:07:45 am Message-ID: > > On Tue, 2004-04-27 at 14:00, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > > > In going through one of the small boxes I found a very strange looking > > > > cable. It had flip chip paddles on one end and centronics connectors [...] > > It can't take that long to buzz out the connections, surely? > > Yea, but you need the cable first! And the first poster said he had the cable. I was suggesting he traced out the connections to help others who have the memory box. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 28 17:38:45 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: truckload of PDP stuff In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Apr 28, 4 07:17:39 pm Message-ID: > > On Wed, 28 Apr 2004, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > > > > It can't take that long to buzz out the connections, surely? > > > > Yea, but you need the cable first! > No, Guy... Tony can do that *without* the cable. What we did NOT Given the prints for the 2 ends (PDP8 and memory box) that doesn't sound _too_ difficult... > tell him, of course, is that he wont be getting any drawings either, > so he will have to work with just the PDP8 and the mem box.. ;-) That sounds a little harder, but I can't beleive that reverse-engineering the memory box (I assume I can get the PDP8 prints from somewhere [1]) is not going to be any worse than some of the other stuff I've done over the years [2]. It would take some time, but I think, even if I say so myself, I'd get it going in the end [1] If not, then I have to reverse-engineer that end too. More work, but not beyond me... [2[ Can you say 'HP9100B'... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 28 17:17:17 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? In-Reply-To: <20040428074149.GB30653@bos7.spole.gov> from "Ethan Dicks" at Apr 28, 4 07:41:49 am Message-ID: > I have to agree with endorsing K&R... That's how I learned C twenty years > ago. I don't think any of the books that have followed have done as good > a job of presenting the material. Yes, C has changed, but that's window > dressing compared to the underlying concepts. It's like many other things (electronic being one of them). A good book remains a good book, even if the subject changes somewhat. If you understand the 'old version' properly, then you'll have no problems picking up the new stuff. The principles remain the same. Put it this way. I'd rather work with an electronic designer who was an expert on valves (and had never seen a transistor) than somsbody who'd been on a 2 week course on the latest devices. The former will pick up the new devices in an afternoon :-), and will really understand what he's doing with them. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 28 17:44:14 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: 6809 (was: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII?) In-Reply-To: <408FEA2A.1040906@jetnet.ab.ca> from "ben franchuk" at Apr 28, 4 11:30:18 am Message-ID: > > In hindsight, the 6809 while the best 8 processer it only has 64k of > memory space. Time has proved the 64k data and 64k program space and I am trying to think of a common 8-bitter with more than 64K of memory space. OK, some microcontrollers have 64K program space and 64K data space, I guess... > about 1 meg of memory ( something the PC-XT had or PDP11/unix ) was > needed for useful programs with a resonable OS. Also since the only > common 6809 system was by Radio Shack as games machine you never got the And its close relative the Dragon 32. Both were based on the same Motorola application note IIRC. > good I/O like lower case letters and a real serial and floppy drives. Err, we are talking about the same CoCo, I assume.... It most certainly does have real floppies. Standard Western Digial controller chip (1773 in my system) and drives. The buit-in serial port is, agreed, a bit-banger (and best used as a printer output only), but Radio Shack sold a proper serial cartridge based on the 6551 chip. I have a homebrew version in my CoCo, with 3 6850s in it (3 serial ports...) The video display was a problem on the CoCo 1 and CoCo 2. Of course under OS-9 you could hang a serial terminal off one of hte serial ports. And the CoCo 3 had a much better video system (pity it's almost unheard-of in the UK). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 28 17:23:14 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? In-Reply-To: <20040428075427.GE30653@bos7.spole.gov> from "Ethan Dicks" at Apr 28, 4 07:54:27 am Message-ID: > I'm not as familiar with the 6809 as I am with the 6502... what differences > in architecture make it better? Larger stack frame? More (and larger) > registers? Yes, and more... The 6809 is a pseudo-16-bit chip in many ways. OK, it's only got an 8 bit data path, but a lot of instructions operate on 16 bit data. IIRC, the registers are : A, B (2 accumulators, 8 bits each) which can be jointly called D (16 bit accumulator) U, S, 2 stack pointers (16 bits each, none of the 6502 problems of a stack in page 1 only) X, Y, 2 index registers, also 16 bits each P (Program counter, 16 bits) S (Status register, 8 bits) DP (Direct page register, 8 bits. This forms the 8 byte in 'direct page addressing mode', which is like zero page on a 6502, except it can refer to any page in memory). Also, the instruction set is orthogonal (very). There are few restrictions on what can be done to each register, and which addressing modes can be used with each instruction. IIRC, on the 6502 you can't transfer (driectly) between just any 2 registers, you can't push just any register onto the stack, etc. And there are relative addressing modes for jumps, calls and data access, allowing position-independant code. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 28 17:53:28 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: 6809 (was: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII?) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040428134650.048d46d8@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Apr 28, 4 02:08:31 pm Message-ID: > So? Most (all?) 8-bit CPUs have that "limitation" -> which can be easily > overcome with bankswitching and other techniques... Motorola actually sold an MMU chip for the 6809 at one point (I have the data sheets, but have never seen the chip). It was something of a kludge -- you could load the new page number and a number-of-cycles into the chip. After than number of clock cycles, the page changed. That let you do a jump instruction on the 6809 at the same time, so you ended up directly at the right address in the new page. > 2) Show me a "reasonable OS" for anything Intel based. Then show me the > ones that existed back in '86 or before. Then show me the ones that will Dynix on a Sequnet Symmetry? > run on anything <'386. Then see if any are left that cost <$150. The list > gets *real* small, *real* quick. OS-9 is a reasonable OS, was first written OK, you win. FWIW, OS-9 was my first 'real OS', and I loved it. I still think some features, particularly the I/O system, are really well designed. > Heck, the CoCo tape unit is almost as fast as the Commie disk drive, and > could be tweaked to go faster! Also, Later CoCo2s & all CoCo3s had What 'later CoCo2s'? That sounds like the 'Deluxe Colour Computer', and AFAIK that was never officially sold (there are rumoured to be a couple out there). > lowercase builtin... and RS had a cartridge that would give you a full > 80x25 mono screen w/lower case (and full decenders, too!) if you needed to I rmember such cartridges being sold in 'The Rainbow' magazine, but I wasn't aware Radio Shack ever sold them. > How does [[ Crappy graphics, crappy sound, great I/O speeds & Unix-class > multitasking OSs ]] == "Game Machine"??? 'Crappy Sound'? Not if you added the Speech/Sound cartridge. That contained a microcontoller, AY-3-891x sound chip and SPO256 speech synthesiser. It was as good as the sound on other machines of the time. I guess what I disliked most about the CoCo was the physical design. You rpetty much had to have the Multi-pack if you were doing anything serious with ti, then you had the disk cotnroller, serial port cartridge, a couple of homebrew things (look, this is _my_ machine :-)) plugged into that, etc. Not a very convenient layout. I would hae prefered a PC-style case (Yes, I know people repackaged their CoCos, but...). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 28 17:30:51 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: semi-OT: text lites In-Reply-To: <035b01c42d35$20b70b40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Apr 28, 4 11:26:06 am Message-ID: > It's a "text lite mm500", made in Ireland apparently for a german > company (www.textlite.de I think). Seems to want about 6V 1A. > The serial port is a 1/8" phono-stereo jack so I'm tempted > to try the cord for my digital cam on it, a better than 1:6 chance of > the connections being right. Well, 'sleeve' is going to be ground, so assuming that tip and ring are TxD and RxD, you've got a 50% chance of them being the right way round. One word of warning, though. Does it contain RS232 level shifters, or are the signals on the socket at TTL levels? If the latter, then connecting an RS232 port directly will kill some chips! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 28 17:59:10 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: 6809 (was: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII?) In-Reply-To: <200404281921.i3SJL2dl026514@huey.classiccmp.org> from "Dave Dunfield" at Apr 28, 4 02:21:02 pm Message-ID: > case, an inadaquate keyboard (CoCo1) and artifically limiting system software (for > example, the CoCo ROM's required DP to be "Page Zero" - and hogged most of it). But the ROM could be switched out and the machine run with a RAM-only memory map. If you had any sense you booted OS-9 which did this and which gave you a multi-tasking OS, the best I/O system I've ever come across, and some very nice languages (a decent C, ISO level 0 PASCAL, and the best BASIC I have ever used on a micro [1]). [1] Yes, this does include BBC Basic. IMHO BASIC-09 was better than even that language. It supported user-defined types for one thing, and the ability to call subroutines written in other languages. -tony From spc at conman.org Wed Apr 28 18:48:25 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: 6809 (was: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII?) In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Apr 28, 2004 11:59:10 PM Message-ID: <20040428234825.4C93C10B2B5F@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Tony Duell once stated: > > [1] Yes, this does include BBC Basic. IMHO BASIC-09 was better than even > that language. It supported user-defined types for one thing, and the > ability to call subroutines written in other languages. The OS-9 executable format included the type of code (native code, byte codes, etc) and with that, the system could either load and execute the binary or load the interpreter, then the binary and execute it (or rather, the interpreter execute it). A very modular system---think of DLLs that could be executed. I rather like the OS. -spc (Never really ran it, but do have the technical documents) From allain at panix.com Wed Apr 28 19:14:00 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: semi-OT: text lites References: Message-ID: <011201c42d7e$dfdabc80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Does it contain RS232 level shifters, or are > the signals on the socket at TTL levels? No clue. I do have a O'Scope handy, but a rather useseless brain as regards to applying said O'Scope. An instruction or two would help. Am I looking for 5v vs 15v signals? John A. From allain at panix.com Wed Apr 28 19:29:13 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: Help with ID for Digital cable References: <005401c42d53$1a39af20$16406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <017801c42d81$0006e720$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > digital BC29H-2E, Rev-B01 Well, a BC29G is a 3w3 -> RGB BNC Sounds like too simple an answer for your question. John A. From dave04a at dunfield.com Wed Apr 28 19:46:12 2004 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: 6809 (was: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII?) Message-ID: <200404290046.i3T0kCdl029646@huey.classiccmp.org> At 23:59 28/04/2004 +0100, you wrote: >> case, an inadaquate keyboard (CoCo1) and artifically limiting system software (for >> example, the CoCo ROM's required DP to be "Page Zero" - and hogged most of it). > >But the ROM could be switched out and the machine run with a RAM-only >memory map. If you had any sense you booted OS-9 which did this and which >gave you a multi-tasking OS, the best I/O system I've ever come across, >and some very nice languages (a decent C, ISO level 0 PASCAL, and the >best BASIC I have ever used on a micro [1]). Yes, absolutely - and I did run OS/9 on my CoCo sometimes when it was an "in use" machine... however I do recall that when initially getting going with the machine "out of the box" it was frustrating to figure out why they had done some of the things they did - I guess the real problem is that the CoCo was designed "on the cheap" and did not have things like a real serial port, and relied on a lot of ROM software to make other devices work. It's funny - in a way you've made my argument for me - That you needed to run a completely separate third-party system in order to allow the CPU to be used anywhere near it's potential is pretty much the point I was making. Btw, I did not buy my first CoCo to run OS/9 - I wanted to put my own os (CUBIX) on it, and I found it required much more learning/understanding to get to the point where I could "take over" the machine than it did with other systems (Boot puts one sector from disk-0 here, here's the disk controller, here are serial ports to talk to terminal - a bit of typeing and you are up and running...). Having the ability to make use of existing ROM code for the devices - at least initially - would have helped. All I'm saying is that this ROM heavy/limiting design was one factor (and only one in a larger list) that prevented the machine from widespread acceptance/third party support. This is consistant with the CoCo's design as a "cost is everything" home "appliance" console, not a serious business/scientific machine which is what the 6809 CPU was worthy of. And this is not necesarily a complaint - just an observation as to some of the reasons a decent machine with an outstanding CPU didn't do better than it did. Unfortunately it is the only common machine using the 09 that most people knew of, and this did not help to win 09 supporters. I believe SWTP made a nicer 6809 machine, however I never did get my hands on one :-( -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Apr 28 19:32:28 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: Help with ID for Digital cable References: <005401c42d53$1a39af20$16406b43@66067007> <017801c42d81$0006e720$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <010001c42d81$7e31cac0$16406b43@66067007> The reason I asked was that when I did a google search it came up as a power supply cable and not a video cable? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 7:29 PM Subject: Re: Help with ID for Digital cable > > digital BC29H-2E, Rev-B01 > > Well, a BC29G is a 3w3 -> RGB BNC > Sounds like too simple an answer for your question. > > John A. > > From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 28 19:43:10 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: Need original Windows 3.0 install disks Message-ID: Has anyone got the original Windows 3.0 install disks? I have the original package and everything but the disks are missing :( Willing to pay a reasonable price plus shipping. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From emu at ecubics.com Wed Apr 28 18:46:21 2004 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: 6809 (was: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII?) In-Reply-To: <200404281125.i3SBPqdl021958@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200404281125.i3SBPqdl021958@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <4090424D.2090908@ecubics.com> Probably OT here, but there is a guy (John Kent?) who put a 6809 in a FPGA. So, there is a chance for all the guys who missed a MMU,FPU,... on a 6809 ;-) His webpage is at: http://members.optushome.com.au/jekent/system09/index.html Look for System09 From pat at computer-refuge.org Wed Apr 28 20:27:14 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: semi-OT: text lites In-Reply-To: <011201c42d7e$dfdabc80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <011201c42d7e$dfdabc80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <200404282027.14170.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Wednesday 28 April 2004 19:14, John Allain wrote: > > Does it contain RS232 level shifters, or are > > the signals on the socket at TTL levels? > > No clue. > I do have a O'Scope handy, but a rather useseless > brain as regards to applying said O'Scope. An instruction > or two would help. Am I looking for 5v vs 15v signals? Step 1. Grab DMM/VOM. It's much easier to check voltages with (assuming the serial port is normally inactive). Step 2. Either tip or ring will be your output. A cable like a 1/8" (mini) to dual RCA "splitter" cable should give you those on the RCA connector centers. Check center to ground on both if you get 10-15V on one, you've got RS-232, and it's your output. If you get about 5V, it's TTL, and your output. If you get < 1V, it's probably the input, but could be a TTL output. If both lines give you <1V, stick your DMM/VOM into resistance mode, and check resistance between the lines with the device on. This is safer with a DMM as it'll use a lower voltage to test with. The line with the lower resistance is the output (probably 1kohm or less); the line with the higher resistance is the input ( probably >=10kohm). In any case, it's TTL not RS/232 if you don't measure +-/- 10-15V. Make sure you check both connectors to be sure. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Apr 28 16:33:47 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: IBM ps/2 P70 Plasma screen voltages In-Reply-To: <200404280149.i3S1ngo04897@netlx050.vf.utwente.nl> References: <20040428002625.MXPI7304.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20040429013042.CKHF22726.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Thank you for your swift answer, > I know how to drive it, i have documents explaining this. > What I don't have, is an original power supply. Two days of googling turned > up a possible 24V or 205V and I don't want to connect that to the wrong > pins... > I can't trace any leads on the board (It's tripple layered) to figure it > out, so now i have to rely on a voltage reading from someone else :( > > P.S. > Did you by any chance notice a third connector with only 3 wires leading > somewhere? Thomas, Rats! After that, it is all gravy for yours! I have to look at scraps of papers and find it. That was 3 years ago. I still need to find P75 PSU, video board I suspected either one is not working right making pixels noisy on tops of lit items. (usually first 2 lines of every lit pixels.) Silly I was disassembled the P75's PSU hence looking for another. Oh, I think it is not 200V, less than that. I'll have to find a working P70 (think my friend may still have it.) And you also need to have DC-DC converter that goes between panel and three DC power supplies. Your panel should have that small board behind the panel's. Both P70 and P75 panels interchange after moving the pins around on the power plug at panel's side. P70 is 386DX (either 16 or 20MHz), P75 is real 486DX 33 and uses different PSUs between them. I'm curious about your project using these plamsa panels? Cheers, Wizard From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Apr 28 16:33:47 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040429013139.CLBV22726.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Well, like I posted yesterday I've cleaned and dismantled the PSU and > verified it's not giving out any voltage at all. There's evidence of heat > damage on what looks like ballast resistors next to a relay that must be > triggered by the 5V ADB line to actually powerup the PSU, but I'd guess > those things get hot anyways. Yes, there is second 5V for standby for the ADB and batteries in the IIfx does the rest for power up. Relay closes AC power for the AC monitor socket and kicks the main SMPS into action. Turn over and look at solder connections are they good? If not, resolder them. This is odd because this SMPS in Mac II family usually uses 2 sided fiberglass PCB not this cheap tan biscuit that is commonly found in TVs. > again I guess that's down to operational heat rather than excessive heat? More like operational heat. > Cheers > > -- > Adrian/Witchy Cheers, Wizard From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Apr 28 16:33:47 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: Fastest VLB Video Card for Windows 3.11 In-Reply-To: <00ce01c42d5d$a75a54e0$962a1941@game> Message-ID: <20040429013158.CLHT22726.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > A while ago I put together a 486/66 system to play around with all my windows 3.1 apps I have used in the past. I was wondering what the fastest VLB video card ever made for windows 3.1x was. I remem> > Google has allot of information about what the best DOS gaming card was, but not that much on windows 3.1 (which is what I am interested in). > > Also what's the best video intensive benchmarking app to test out cards with? > > I have the following cards (and others but they are slower): > > Diamond Viper VLB 1mb VRAM > Diamond Viper VLB 2mb VRAM > (while both have the P9000 chip for windows acceleration they have 2 > different chips for vga) Correct: The dual chipsets was oak chipset and P9000. The dos mode is slooooooow. Unaccelerated slow but when in accelerated it's very quick. > Diamond Video 3000 (Stealth 64 Video Vram VLB) 4mb (S3 968 Chipset) S3 was decent for the gaming and GUI acceleration. > Diamond Speedstar pro VLB 1mb DRAM This WAS what I had, there was four versions: 1MB (expandable to two), 2MB, some was Tnesg 4000/W32i or W32p I had 2MB W32p VLB. Very nice for old gaming like doom, windows and dos mode. It is more like all-around chipset and fast. But there is so many generic and good other brands based on the Tnesg 4000/W32p VLB cards not just Hercules. S3 968 is also good and fast in GUI acceleration mode and supported by many games. Uncertain in text mode. > Hercules graphite 1mb VRAM (IIT chipset) Very little support because IIT chipset wasn't so common back then. The MOST common ones were sucky cirrus logic or slooow Trident. Some S3'ers, least common was Tnesg or P9000. > Matrox Plus 2mb VLB (early matrox chip and a very long card that has space > for another 2mb vram) That, I haven't seen one YET! Got a photo of this? I may be wrong but didn't Matrox produced Millennium I VLB not PCI? > These cards are from the early 90's so it should be on-topic for the list. Parallel to this classic video cards from that era, my friend had his P9000 based PCI had 8 VRAM and RAMDAC ICs all liberally burnt up! Cheers, Wizard From marvin at rain.org Wed Apr 28 20:53:32 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: Need original Windows 3.0 install disks References: Message-ID: <4090601C.2D1E890C@rain.org> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Has anyone got the original Windows 3.0 install disks? I have the > original package and everything but the disks are missing :( Is the media that came with the package 5 1/4" or 3 1/2"? From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Apr 28 20:58:03 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:10 2005 Subject: Fastest VLB Video Card for Windows 3.11 References: <20040429013158.CLHT22726.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <01a801c42d8d$684d6dc0$962a1941@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 5:33 PM Subject: Re: Fastest VLB Video Card for Windows 3.11 > > > A while ago I put together a 486/66 system to play around with all my windows 3.1 apps I have used in the past. I was wondering what the fastest VLB video card ever made for windows 3.1x was. I remem> > > Google has allot of information about what the best DOS gaming card was, but not that much on windows 3.1 (which is what I am interested in). > > > > Also what's the best video intensive benchmarking app to test out cards with? > > > > I have the following cards (and others but they are slower): > > > > Diamond Viper VLB 1mb VRAM > > Diamond Viper VLB 2mb VRAM > > (while both have the P9000 chip for windows acceleration they have 2 > > different chips for vga) > > Correct: The dual chipsets was oak chipset and P9000. The dos mode > is slooooooow. Unaccelerated slow but when in accelerated it's very > quick. > > > Diamond Video 3000 (Stealth 64 Video Vram VLB) 4mb (S3 968 Chipset) > > S3 was decent for the gaming and GUI acceleration. > > > Diamond Speedstar pro VLB 1mb DRAM > > This WAS what I had, there was four versions: > 1MB (expandable to two), 2MB, some was Tnesg 4000/W32i or W32p > I had 2MB W32p VLB. Very nice for old gaming like doom, windows and > dos mode. It is more like all-around chipset and fast. But there is > so many generic and good other brands based on the Tnesg 4000/W32p > VLB cards not just Hercules. > > S3 968 is also good and fast in GUI acceleration mode and supported > by many games. Uncertain in text mode. > > > Hercules graphite 1mb VRAM (IIT chipset) > > Very little support because IIT chipset wasn't so common back then. > > The MOST common ones were sucky cirrus logic or slooow Trident. Some > S3'ers, least common was Tnesg or P9000. > > > Matrox Plus 2mb VLB (early matrox chip and a very long card that has space > > for another 2mb vram) > > That, I haven't seen one YET! Got a photo of this? > > I may be wrong but didn't Matrox produced Millennium I VLB not PCI? > > > These cards are from the early 90's so it should be on-topic for the list. > > Parallel to this classic video cards from that era, my friend had his > P9000 based PCI had 8 VRAM and RAMDAC ICs all liberally burnt up! > > Cheers, > > Wizard > I can toss the card onto my scanner and get a jpg of it (matrox card). I never seen one until it came up for sale on ebay, trying to find some vram to max it out at 4mb. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Apr 28 20:56:50 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: semi-OT: text lites In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040428083117.022fab90@24.161.37.215> References: <063c01c42c95$1cbfd620$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <200404272132.i3RLWUUD028724@onyx.spiritone.com> <20040428074310.GC30653@bos7.spole.gov> <6.1.0.6.2.20040428083117.022fab90@24.161.37.215> Message-ID: <20040429015650.GA28714@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Apr 28, 2004 at 08:34:37AM -0400, John Boffemmyer IV wrote: > Quite nifty Ethan. Was thinking about tossing a serial LCD or maybe > parallel on my old P200MMX (older than 10 years now - on topic I guess) > system that I'm scrapping together to make a file server out of. It always > helps to know a contributor to something being used is just a forum post > away =) Glad to answer questions. My personal focus on the project is drivers for interesting hardware (non-Hitachi-compatible VFDs, the PIC-an-LCD interface to parallel LCDs, etc.) Down here, I'm using PalmOrb and a Palm Vx for my display (no reason to ship down two things when one will do). I took a stab at a Solaris port of LCDProc a few years back (1998?) but at the time, I could only get about 60% of the stats that Linux provides in the /proc filesystem, so I abandoned the effort in favor of someone else who was adapting, I think, libpcap. > BTW: how's the weather down there? Heard you guys were getting smacked with > some serious winds the other day. Not too bad (see below)... winds over 20 knots are unfun. We set some records earlier this month. Fortunately, there's an inverse relationship between the temp and the winds (so it's anywhere from -35F to -55F when it's that windy. Winds are normally calm below -65F). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 29-Apr-2004 01:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -80.4 F (-62.5 C) Windchill -119.9 F (-84.40 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8.5 kts Grid 060 Barometer 679.4 mb (10647. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 28 20:59:07 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: Need original Windows 3.0 install disks In-Reply-To: <4090601C.2D1E890C@rain.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Apr 2004, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > Has anyone got the original Windows 3.0 install disks? I have the > > original package and everything but the disks are missing :( > > Is the media that came with the package 5 1/4" or 3 1/2"? I'm pretty certain it was 5.25". -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aek at spies.com Wed Apr 28 21:13:31 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: truckload of PDP stuff Message-ID: <200404290213.i3T2DVmE013087@spies.com> That sounds a little harder, but I can't beleive that reverse-engineering the memory box -- not necessary. the drawings are at www.bitsavers.org/pdf/fabritek/400-0226-00_24kCore_jan74.pdf From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Apr 28 21:13:04 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: 6809 (was: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII?) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040428134650.048d46d8@mail.30below.com> References: <200404281125.i3SBPqdl021958@huey.classiccmp.org> <5.1.0.14.2.20040428134650.048d46d8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <20040429021304.GB28714@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Apr 28, 2004 at 02:08:31PM -0400, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Game machine? Hardly... the Commodore & Atari were *much* better with games > than the CoCo ever was. Floppy drives? RS drives were the best available > for that class of market at the time. > > Machine Interface Storage > Commodore 19200bps ser. 120K? thereabouts, please correct me. > Atari 19200bps ser. 88K (single) 120K (enhanced) > CoCo 250000bps par. 156K (standard) > 720K (OS-9, stock controller) The 1541, Commodore's disk drive for the C-64, was serial, but it was sync serial based on bit-banging the I/O port at $0000/$0001. It was not a UART-friendly speed like the Atari drives were. The capacity was the same as the older IEEE-488 4040 - about 170K (the drive processor varied the bit rate amongst 4 zones, the lowest of which was identical to the Apple II drives, packing between 17 and 22? sectors per track, depending on the track). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 29-Apr-2004 02:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -80.5 F (-62.6 C) Windchill -116 F (-82.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 7.8 kts Grid 059 Barometer 679.5 mb (10643. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From anheier at owt.com Wed Apr 28 21:33:48 2004 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm and Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: More DEC boards available Message-ID: Thanks for all the interest in these boards, but they are all spoken for. I have more that I will be posting shortly. Thanks Norm From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 28 21:34:22 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: Need original Windows 3.0 install disks In-Reply-To: <4090601C.2D1E890C@rain.org> References: <4090601C.2D1E890C@rain.org> Message-ID: <20040428192908.G80935@newshell.lmi.net> > > Has anyone got the original Windows 3.0 install disks? I have the > > original package and everything but the disks are missing :( Do you just need a usable copy, or are you trying to get the real original distribution diskettes? > Is the media that came with the package 5 1/4" or 3 1/2"? I think that 3.00 was available on 360K, 1.2M, 720K, and 1.4M It was also available on CD-ROM! But that might not have ever been in a commercial release. In 1991, MICROS~1 gave me a CD-ROM containing "all" of the "foreign language" 3.0 versions. And either the SDK or the DDK included Windoze. From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Apr 28 22:16:26 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: HP Historical record Message-ID: <001b01c42d98$5b80c0a0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I just found this fairly detailed history of HP computing products and operating systems. It filled in a LOT of gaps I was unaware of. Extremely interesting reading for HP fans. Don't let the title fool you, it's not just RTE, it's everything computing related :) There were a few "firsts" HP had in the minicomputer market that I wasn't aware of some of them. VERY good info! Example - I had no idea the 21MX/F was discontinued well before the 21MX/E. http://www.interex.org/tech/csl/RTE/archive/poyner1.htm Regards, Jay West From vcf at siconic.com Wed Apr 28 23:38:04 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: Need original Windows 3.0 install disks In-Reply-To: <20040428192908.G80935@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Apr 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > Has anyone got the original Windows 3.0 install disks? I have the > > > original package and everything but the disks are missing :( > > Do you just need a usable copy, or are you trying to get > the real original distribution diskettes? Preferably the latter, but the former may work as well. > > Is the media that came with the package 5 1/4" or 3 1/2"? > I think that 3.00 was available on 360K, 1.2M, 720K, and 1.4M It doesn't matter to me. > In 1991, MICROS~1 gave me a CD-ROM containing "all" of the > "foreign language" 3.0 versions. And either the SDK or the DDK > included Windoze. BTW, I've got the Windows SDK, but I don't think it includes Windows (I checked the disks and none of them indicated they were to install the "OS"). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 28 23:44:32 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: semi-OT: text lites In-Reply-To: <011201c42d7e$dfdabc80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Apr 28, 4 08:14:00 pm Message-ID: > > +AD4- Does it contain RS232 level shifters, or are > +AD4- the signals on the socket at TTL levels? > > No clue. > I do have a O'Scope handy, but a rather useseless > brain as regards to applying said O'Scope. An instruction > or two would help. Am I looking for 5v vs 15v signals? The first thing I would do is to trace where the connections from the serial port go. One of them, almost certainly the sleeve, will go to ground. If the other 2 go to level shifter ICs (MAX272, 1488/1489, etc) then it's RS232. If they go directly to the pins of a microcontroller or a TTL chip, then it's TTL levels. If it's something else, come back here with what you've found. Also, measure the DC voltage (voltmeter, DMM) between the 2 signal connections anf ground. If one of them is at a -ve voltage, then it's almost certainly RS232. -tony From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Wed Apr 28 23:54:18 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: Need original Windows 3.0 install disks Message-ID: <0404290454.AA04595@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Has anyone got the original Windows 3.0 install disks? I have 13 complete sets, each set being 7 3.5" DD (720 KB) floppies in a sealed cellophane bag. They are old and the welds that held the bags sealed weren't very strong, so some of them are coming apart, but they are basically "unopened". Seeing that there is interest, I'll try to find time to read them and put the images on my FTP site. For those who want the real original disks, rather than just images, since I have 13 sets, I'm willing to sell them except one. If interested, make an offer. MS From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Apr 29 00:22:18 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: 6809 (was: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII?) In-Reply-To: <20040429021304.GB28714@bos7.spole.gov> from Ethan Dicks at "Apr 29, 4 02:13:04 am" Message-ID: <200404290522.WAA16946@floodgap.com> > The 1541, Commodore's disk drive for the C-64, was serial, but it was > sync serial based on bit-banging the I/O port at $0000/$0001. No, no -- the IEC serial bus goes through the CIAs. The *cassette* is done by bitbanging $0000/1. > It was > not a UART-friendly speed like the Atari drives were. The capacity was > the same as the older IEEE-488 4040 - about 170K (the drive processor > varied the bit rate amongst 4 zones, the lowest of which was identical > to the Apple II drives, packing between 17 and 22? sectors per track, > depending on the track). Hai. :) -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- "My inner geek can beat up your inner geek." ------------------------------- From lcourtney at mvista.com Thu Apr 29 00:31:32 2004 From: lcourtney at mvista.com (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: HP Historical record In-Reply-To: <001b01c42d98$5b80c0a0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: Jay, Thanks for posting the pointer to this great information. Todd Poyner now works as a software engineer for MontaVista Software. MontaVista has many HP-DSD/1000 Alumni: Todd Poyner - Don't know what Todd did at DSD, after my time Lee Courtney - RTE-6VM and follow-on CS80 support then on to Vision, Spectrum and other things MPE related Kevin Morgan - intern working on RTE-IVE and then Lab (or Project?) Manager for HP-RT George Anzinger - George is Mr. RTE, from the beginning to the bitter end. Scott Anderson - HP-RT? Kristin Anderson - RTE/HP-RT Support Mark Orvek - HP-RT Johnny Klonaris - HP-RT (QA?) RTE-6 was my first project out of school and it, along with the project manager Mike Manley (he wrote CMM4 and CMM6), really laid a great foundation for my career. A great fun exciting project during great fun exciting times - in the computing industry and HP. BTW - Bob Frankenberg, who later went on to head Novell, was our HP1000 Lab Manager in the late 70s. In those days hardware, software, and support orgs were all small enough to sit on the same floor - 42U on the Cupertino site. There was a fab in 42L doing SOS chips. QA was downstairs in Building 40?, and manufacturing (all - M/E/F/A and 2250) in 41? in Cupertino. Cheers, Lee Courtney MontaVista Software 1237 East Arques Avenue Sunnyvale, California 94085 (408) 328-9238 voice (408) 328-9204 fax "Powering the Embedded Revolution" > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jay West > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 8:16 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: HP Historical record > > > I just found this fairly detailed history of HP computing products and > operating systems. It filled in a LOT of gaps I was unaware of. Extremely > interesting reading for HP fans. Don't let the title fool you, > it's not just > RTE, it's everything computing related :) There were a few "firsts" HP had > in the minicomputer market that I wasn't aware of some of them. VERY good > info! Example - I had no idea the 21MX/F was discontinued well before the > 21MX/E. > > http://www.interex.org/tech/csl/RTE/archive/poyner1.htm > > Regards, > > Jay West > From ikvsabre at comcast.net Thu Apr 29 00:29:35 2004 From: ikvsabre at comcast.net (Joe Stevenson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: FA: Apple IIe System, C64, 1541 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200404290129350171.000844B3@smtp.comcast.net> Forgive my ignorance, but where is VCM? Joe *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 4/28/2004 at 12:08 PM Patrick wrote: >If anyone is interested, I just posted the following on VCM: > >* Apple IIe Enhanced, 64K, two Disk II drives, one Unidisk 5.25" drive, one >Unidisk 3.5" drive, ProDOS, three disk controllers, three Super Serial >cards, one parallel interface card w/cable, and AppleColor Composite >Monitor. > >* Commodore C64 in original carton, power supply, manual, composite video >cable and switchbox. > >* Commodore 1541 disk drive with Zork I, II, III, Pinball Construction Set, >more. From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Apr 29 00:41:15 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: Need original Windows 3.0 install disks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040428223904.G84597@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 28 Apr 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > "foreign language" 3.0 versions. And either the SDK or the DDK > > included Windoze. > BTW, I've got the Windows SDK, but I don't think it includes Windows (I > checked the disks and none of them indicated they were to install the > "OS"). It must have been the DDK. I'll let you know if/when I can find it. From pat at computer-refuge.org Thu Apr 29 00:57:15 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: FA: Apple IIe System, C64, 1541 In-Reply-To: <200404290129350171.000844B3@smtp.comcast.net> References: <200404290129350171.000844B3@smtp.comcast.net> Message-ID: <200404290057.15513.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Thursday 29 April 2004 00:29, Joe Stevenson wrote: > Forgive my ignorance, but where is VCM? > > Joe Um, maybe the one at http://marketplace.vintage.org ... :) Pat > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 4/28/2004 at 12:08 PM Patrick wrote: > >If anyone is interested, I just posted the following on VCM: -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Apr 29 05:47:01 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: Need original Windows 3.0 install disks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1083235621.4333.36.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-04-29 at 01:59, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 28 Apr 2004, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > > Has anyone got the original Windows 3.0 install disks? I have the > > > original package and everything but the disks are missing :( > > > > Is the media that came with the package 5 1/4" or 3 1/2"? > > I'm pretty certain it was 5.25". Probably the original Windows 3.0 original install disks, yes :-) Until recently I had a boxed copy of 3.0 that also came with the Microsoft mouse included (I'm assuming the first versions didn't?) - that included both 5.25" and 3.5" media. I say "until recently" - I've still got it, I just don't know where it is! :-/ cheers Jules From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Apr 29 05:46:08 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx update In-Reply-To: <20040429013139.CLBV22726.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <200404291059.i3TAxYdl032887@huey.classiccmp.org> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of jpero@sympatico.ca > Sent: 28 April 2004 22:34 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Mac IIfx update > > Turn over and look at solder connections are they good? If > not, resolder them. This is odd because this SMPS in Mac II > family usually uses 2 sided fiberglass PCB not this cheap tan > biscuit that is commonly found in TVs. The PSU in my other II uses the same board..... I'm going to resolder this afternoon once I've cleared some space on my bench. Film at 11 :) Cheers w From brianmahoney at look.ca Thu Apr 29 06:42:54 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: off-topic (Re: FA: Apple IIe System, C64, 1541 ) References: <200404290129350171.000844B3@smtp.comcast.net> <200404290057.15513.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <000901c42ddf$2e198d80$6402a8c0@BlackforestCake> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Finnegan" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 1:57 AM Subject: Re: FA: Apple IIe System, C64, 1541 > On Thursday 29 April 2004 00:29, Joe Stevenson wrote: > > Forgive my ignorance, but where is VCM? > > > > Joe > > Um, maybe the one at http://marketplace.vintage.org ... > > :) Pat If you take the link to VCM then the link to the Dumpkopf auction then the link to here: http://community-2.webtv.net/ARCHAICAUDIO/WESTERNELECTRIC/page15.html you'll find the guy has an awesome collection of old electronic audio and video stuff, besides the Dumpkopf (hey, no one asked if they could use my nick name for a computer!). Most of the stuff is overpriced and the site is incredibly ugly but he's got things such as a Dumont studio camera, a few wonderful radio consoles and some mics. Interesting to browse through. Plus a couple of "CONTROL DATA 1700 MAGNETIC CORE MEMORY MODULES". bm From t.dekker at student.utwente.nl Thu Apr 29 07:25:20 2004 From: t.dekker at student.utwente.nl (Thomas Dekker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: IBM ps/2 P70 Plasma screen voltages In-Reply-To: <20040429013042.CKHF22726.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <200404291225.i3TCPG215518@netlx010.civ.utwente.nl> > Thomas, > > Rats! > After that, it is all gravy for yours! > I have to look at scraps of papers and find it. That was 3 years ago. I still need to find P75 PSU, video board I suspected either one is not working right making pixels noisy on tops of lit items. > (usually first 2 lines of every lit pixels.) Silly I was > disassembled the P75's PSU hence looking for another. > > Oh, I think it is not 200V, less than that. I'll have to find a working P70 (think my friend may still have it.) And you also need to have DC-DC converter that goes between panel and three DC power supplies. Your panel should have that small board behind the panel's. > > Both P70 and P75 panels interchange after moving the pins around on the power plug at panel's side. > > P70 is 386DX (either 16 or 20MHz), P75 is real 486DX 33 and uses different PSUs between them. > > I'm curious about your project using these plamsa panels? > > Cheers, > > Wizard Well, I'm an electronics student at the university of Twente in Holland. I got the board from a fellow student, who didn't know what to do with it. The screen runs on 25Mhz, reading 4 bits of pixel data at a time. Almost half of the connector pins are ground, and the others are default vga signal pins. It shouldn't be too hard to get some of the pixels to light, I'd really like to know if it still works. I don't think i have the DC-DC converter (if it's not on the picture), but I can build a new power supply if I know the voltages as they are coming from the DC-DC converter. Btw, if you have any pictures i'd love to see them. Too bad yours isn't working anymore, it's such a cool device :-) Thomas. From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Apr 29 08:36:19 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: IBM ps/2 P70 Plasma screen voltages References: <20040429013042.CKHF22726.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> <200404291225.i3TCPG215518@netlx010.civ.utwente.nl> Message-ID: <16529.1235.226313.439096@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Thomas" == Thomas Dekker writes: Thomas> Well, I'm an electronics student at the university of Twente Thomas> in Holland. I got the board from a fellow student, who Thomas> didn't know what to do with it. The screen runs on 25Mhz, Thomas> reading 4 bits of pixel data at a time. Almost half of the Thomas> connector pins are ground, and the others are default vga Thomas> signal pins. It shouldn't be too hard to get some of the Thomas> pixels to light, I'd really like to know if it still works. Thomas> I don't think i have the DC-DC converter (if it's not on the Thomas> picture), but I can build a new power supply if I know the Thomas> voltages as they are coming from the DC-DC converter. Btw, Thomas> if you have any pictures i'd love to see them. Too bad yours Thomas> isn't working anymore, it's such a cool device :-) I only know plasma panels from earlier days, when they were applied by their original inventor to the terminals of the PLATO system. Those were orange color, on/off only (no grayscale, or "orange scale" I suppose). The power for those panels was quite complex and fairly critical. It wasn't a DC voltage at all, but rather a high voltage AC square wave called the "sustainer voltage". The voltage was chosen so that a pixel, once lit, would stay lit (the sustainer would "sustain" the discharge) but pixels that were off would stay off. You could then turn pixels on or off by pulsing X and Y wires either in phase (turn on) or opposite phase (turn off) -- just like coincident current addressing in core memories. So those plasma panels had inherent memory, no refresh needed. I don't know how far the panel you're looking at differs from those PLATO panels. paul From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Apr 29 09:47:45 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: Need original Windows 3.0 install disks Message-ID: <12d.3fd8f424.2dc26f91@aol.com> I have a copy on HD 5.25 disks with Z-NIX company logo on them. I've got 5 disks for the set and look unused. Is there still a need for them? From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Apr 29 10:33:00 2004 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: FW: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City Message-ID: Update: I'm going over Monday morning and examining all of the systems and I will attempt to make a list and post it. I have to sign a donation letter otherwise the systems are mine. Mike >Subject: DEC VAX 785 and PDP11/70's in Kansas City >I just got word from a friend that a company in Kansas City is planning to >dispose of the following. > >DEC VAX 785 in three 6' cabinets >DEC PDP 11/70 in ten 6' cabinets, this may be two computers >4 RM03 disk drives >2 TU80 tape drives >Other disks for VAX >That is what they remembered without actually having a list. > >I'm trying to set up a time to actually see them. > >Here is the other information I have received. > >There is a company from Topeka that will take them away if they are paid to >remove them. > >The 785 was running 3 months ago when they erased all of the media. >It has been about a year since the 11/70's were on. > >They are not currently running. > >They are checking on the legal requirements that they may have to go through >to dispose of these units. >They are worried about making sure they aren't legally libel if somebody >dumps them improperly. > >Whoever takes them away may have to be a GE approved vender. > >I'll keep everybody informed. > >Thanks >Mike From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Apr 29 10:36:53 2004 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: More DEC equipment spotted in Kansas City Message-ID: If anybody is interested Surplus Exchange as multiple racks labeled VAX 6000-610 VAX 6000-410 Multiple 9-track tape drives One labeled TU58 They came from local engineering firm. Contact is Dave at Surplus Exchange. I can privately email you a phone number if you want to contact him. Mike From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Apr 29 10:54:47 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx update In-Reply-To: <20040429013139.CLBV22726.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <200404291608.i3TG8Bdl034313@huey.classiccmp.org> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of jpero@sympatico.ca > Sent: 28 April 2004 22:34 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Mac IIfx update > > Turn over and look at solder connections are they good? If > not, resolder them. This is odd because this SMPS in Mac II > family usually uses 2 sided fiberglass PCB not this cheap tan > biscuit that is commonly found in TVs. Well, I've resoldered all dull and 2 cracked connections and I still get no voltage on the outputs so I'm looking at a failed component somewhere in the 5V circuit...... Curses. Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Apr 29 11:19:16 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: More DEC equipment spotted in Kansas City Message-ID: <0404291619.AA05168@ivan.Harhan.ORG> "McFadden, Mike" wrote: > VAX 6000-610 > VAX 6000-410 I'm salivating but just don't have a place to house a 6000 in a full cabinet (unless it's the smaller version for space-constrained people, a smallish rackmount XMI card cage, but those were rarer than hen's teeth), let alone two of them. Is it the kind of thing that's headed for death in a melter if no one takes it? If someone else (with a warehouse for his computers) can take them, great, but if no one does and they head for scrap, can you please take out all boards (I'm interested in all XMI and all VAXBI boards, the TU58, and any other boards/parts that may be there other than the huge cabinet that I unfortunately can't handle) and let me (or other interested people) have them? MS From medavidson at mac.com Thu Apr 29 12:19:44 2004 From: medavidson at mac.com (Mark Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: More DEC equipment spotted in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <0404291619.AA05168@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0404291619.AA05168@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <68ACE34D-9A01-11D8-8F25-000393D3CBB6@mac.com> How much room are we talking about? My garage is pretty empty (2 car and I only use it for my 1 car). Mark P.S. I'm new to the list... it's so great to find such a wonderful list for discussing old equipment... just makes me wish I had owned my house years ago when I had things like Data General Eclipse machines and had to dump them for lack of space. On Apr 29, 2004, at 9:19 AM, Michael Sokolov wrote: > "McFadden, Mike" wrote: > >> VAX 6000-610 >> VAX 6000-410 > > I'm salivating but just don't have a place to house a 6000 in a full > cabinet > (unless it's the smaller version for space-constrained people, a > smallish > rackmount XMI card cage, but those were rarer than hen's teeth), let > alone two > of them. > > Is it the kind of thing that's headed for death in a melter if no one > takes it? > If someone else (with a warehouse for his computers) can take them, > great, but > if no one does and they head for scrap, can you please take out all > boards (I'm > interested in all XMI and all VAXBI boards, the TU58, and any other > boards/parts > that may be there other than the huge cabinet that I unfortunately > can't handle) > and let me (or other interested people) have them? > > MS > From mtapley at swri.edu Thu Apr 29 13:01:36 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 8, Issue 56 In-Reply-To: <200404291700.i3TH04dl034593@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200404291700.i3TH04dl034593@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: At 12:00 -0500 4/29/04, Teo Zenios wrote: >I can toss the card onto my scanner and get a jpg of it (matrox card). I >never seen one until it came up for sale on ebay, trying to find some vram >to max it out at 4mb. I have forgotten, did we ever have a discussion about whether scanners/photocopiers/etc. have enough UV content in their lights to erase UV-EPROMs, if the sticker has come off? I sort-of recall we did, but don't remember the outcome. -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From mtapley at swri.edu Thu Apr 29 14:14:49 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: Mac Plus with (minor) issues In-Reply-To: <200404291700.i3TH04dl034593@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200404291700.i3TH04dl034593@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: All, Two separate (?) issues with my Mac Plus. 1) Screen display is too far to the left. 2) System seems *very* sensitive to voltage setting. What I've got: Mac Plus (upgraded from 512k), original mouse/KB Brainstorm 16MHz 68000 upgrade Kensington System Saver Mac (switch, fan, and surge protector, mounts on top of system). La Cie external SCSI hard drive, 230 MBytes Analog (Radio Shack, automatically suspect) VOM. Mac OS 6.0.8, 7.0.1, 7.1 (chosen by System Picker utility) all on HD Screen Display issue: Everything (all pixels) is shifted uniformly to the left about 5 mm. I found the "width" setting on the analog board (well duh, read the label on the cardboard shield) and fooled with it (system on, plastic tool). Works fine, image gets narrower and wider. I can set it narrow enough that pixels are all on the phosphor, so the system is usable - but it's aesthetically slightly annoying to have everything to the left of where I expect it. I could not find a setting to shift left/right. Problem is present either with or without the Brainstorm installed, so I don't think it's related to that. I *think* the problem first appeared when I took out the "Elf Armor" mu-metal ELF shield that I got back when that was hot psuedo-science, my wife used the machine a lot, and we were expecting our first child (see the connection? :-) ). Significance of that is I had to unplug the cable from the back of the CRT, so might I have knocked something askew? Voltage sensitivity: System started occasionally resetting itself. Opened it up, stuck the VOM on ground (frame) and 5 V (using the pin in the middle of the Analog -> Digital board connector, at the digital board) and found it reading a *little* (maybe 0.05 V?) shy of 5 V. OK, (duh, read the label on the cardboard analog board shield again) set the voltage higher, with system running. I can set it quite a bit higher, up to around 5.1 V. System keeps running. However, when I power-cycle at that setting, it goes into an endless loop of "chirp, chirp, chirp..." and the VOM stays near 0 V (wiggling at each chirp). I assume that means there's an overshoot on 5V coming up which triggers the crowbar, which sets up for a repeat. Q1) Is that supposed to work that way? I'd expected the 5V rise to be critically damped or better, so no overshoot. In other words, I'd expect if it'll continue to run at a given Voltage setting, it'll start at that setting. Have I got a latent problem forming? OK, sooo... set the Voltage back down some, try the "reset" button.. (repeat a few times) ... "Bong" ... starts up nicely ... runs a while and then freezes. (Here and below, "freezes" means some sort of bad instruction. Could result in lock-up, could mean drop into MacsBug, unable to continue, could mean reset.) This behaviour is not present unless the Brainstorm is installed (at least not obviously. It could be true but with a longer time constant between freezes). Sigh. So try setting Voltage barely higher. Works, but freezes *sooner*. Hmmm. Voltage lower. Works better. Voltage lower. Finally found a setting very slightly below 5V, (mmmm..maybe 4.98 V?? But remember the instrument I'm reading from here...probably about 1 significant figure) where it seems to run indefinitely ('til bedtime, anyhow). Q2) I thought that all digital stuff basically ran better until it over-voltaged - which the crowbar was supposed to prevent. So I'm surprised to see freezes/crashes at *higher* voltages (but still low enough to avoid the start-up overshoot) but see them less frequently at lower voltages. Q3) I assume there is a minimum voltage at which I'll also start to see freezes/lockups. True? Am I better off hunting for the lowest possible voltage, or try to find a "happy medium"? Q4) Have I got some incipient problem (dying isolation cap?) that is closing my window of working voltages? Warning: I'm on digest mode, the system is at home and I'm usually at work while accessing email, so my response time is likely to be ~24 hours for anything that requires tests/measurements. And then there's the kids' YMCA soccer (football) league .... TIA and no urgency, as the system appears to be running at the moment (raps forehead soundly) 'Knock on wood'. Kids are getting hooked on "Sim City" while I'm at work. But the Brainstorm may cure that...Sim City appears to run twice as fast with the 16MHz upgrade as it did with just the original 8MHz processor. Which reminds me: The Brainstorm is on a little daughterboard with 2 other IC's. The daughterboard plugs into a socket which is installed piggyback atop the original 8MHz 68000. There is also a flying resistor that solders to one leg of another component a short way away on the motherboard. If I pull the Brainstorm daughterboard off, and desolder the resistor lead, the system works just as before, with the 8 MHz CPU. If I plug the Brainstorm into the socket and connect the resistor, the system runs (see above, sometimes) at 16MHz (apparently). (FWIW, there are a couple of other modifications to the motherboard. I *think* they are just IC replacements.) I *think* this means that when the Brainstorm is plugged in, both 8MHz and 16MHz processers are running simultaneously. Bonus Q5) Is that right? Isn't that a recipe for thermal and electrical disaster? (I guess not, it runs, but....) -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From cb at mythtech.net Thu Apr 29 14:52:46 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: Mac Plus with (minor) issues Message-ID: Sounds like the barrel rectifier at position CR5 on the analog board is going bad. Tech book I have here says its a MR824 rectifier. I had to look up the position and the part number in a book I have (Dead Mac Scrolls), but I have done this repair on a few Mac Pluses (same analog board as the 128 and 512), and they had similar symptoms. They had the Chirping noise, as well as the right side of the screen would move in and out (which would appear that everything is shifted left like you describe). Notes from the book. Original rectifier is a GI854, R-SI, 600V, 3A... and they recommend replacing it with a MR824, R-SI, 400V, 5A to avoid having the problem come back. The rectifier is kind of top center of the analog board. The analog board from those Macs was notoriously flaky. Lots of under rated parts that burned out easily. Probably Apple worst power supplies. Ironically, the 2nd worst are the CRT iMacs that brought back that same style computer. And ironically, the iMacs are bad for the same reason, under rated components that burned out from normal use. You would think Apple would have been more careful the 2nd time around :-) BTW: While you are in there working on the analog board, check and possibly resolder joint J4 on the main cable on the center of the board. Its pin 1 on the cable. That joint was bad on I think EVERY Mac Plus I worked on. So there is a pretty good bet that even if you aren't having problems with yours now, you will in the future. The solder would split off the board causing the cable to lose connection, causing the video to blink out. Smacking the side of the case would cause it to restore temporarily... its the only time I've had a computer company give me an official "repair" of "whack the side of the case" =:-O -chris From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 29 15:07:21 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: More DEC equipment spotted in Kansas City In-Reply-To: <68ACE34D-9A01-11D8-8F25-000393D3CBB6@mac.com> References: <0404291619.AA05168@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <68ACE34D-9A01-11D8-8F25-000393D3CBB6@mac.com> Message-ID: >How much room are we talking about? My garage is pretty empty (2 >car and I only use it for my 1 car). > >Mark Think roughly the equivalent of 2-3 19" racks, and that's just for the single enclosure holding the CPU. You'll need at least a 19" rack for the disk drives. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From nbreeden2 at comcast.net Wed Apr 28 19:17:05 2004 From: nbreeden2 at comcast.net (Neil Breeden) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Fun Video from 1978 Message-ID: <200404290031.i3T0Vbdl029585@huey.classiccmp.org> All, I recently ran across a cool old video form 1978. It shows a concept for using an internet based phone (VoIP???). It starts with some video of a PDP11. It features cool 1978 fashions and haircuts. I found this video rather fun to watch, the H/W in it really takes me back to the 70s and early 80s. It's a 60meg download from my home web server (250KBS uplink) so it will take 30 minutes plus to get a copy. If someone wants to repost it someplace with better bandwidth please feel free. Hopefully everyone won't hit the server at once. :) http://24.17.121.14/Movies/VoIP_1978.ZIP -Neil From chad.martin at fli-invent.com Wed Apr 28 19:26:33 2004 From: chad.martin at fli-invent.com (Chad Martin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: More 6809 Message-ID: <001001c42d80$a5949b20$1f01a8c0@eng1> Just to let you guys know, there were much larger 6809 systems. The 6809 was a great processor. I worked for many years on a 6809 system with 4Mb ram, scsi disk interface with hard drive and ms-dos 3.5 floppy, 68030 floating point co-processor. This was in use from about 1980 until 1992, when superceeded by the new system. The 6809 was retained for so long due to the software investment. Originally it had a custom disk interface to 5.25 floppy only, which was upgraded to scsi and ms-dos fat file format around 1988. It also originally had a smaller stack based floating point chip, but we needed faster float speed for coordinate calculations. So we upgraded to using the floating point co-processor that was used with the 68030. All of this and the memory managment was custom hardware. It started out being a couple of boards, but later was reduced to one board for all the cpu stuff. These systems also had several other 6809's in them. Originally the pattern rec vision system used one also. The material handling system, and motion control axis used the smaller 6805s in them. It was used on the Kulicke & Soffa wire bonders, used to manufacture computer chips, including Motorola of course. http://www.kns.com/prodserv/equipment/8060.asp Chad Martin From waisun.chia at hp.com Thu Apr 29 00:03:13 2004 From: waisun.chia at hp.com (Wai-Sun Chia) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: Help with ID for Digital cable In-Reply-To: <005401c42d53$1a39af20$16406b43@66067007> References: <005401c42d53$1a39af20$16406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <40908C91.5090502@hp.com> Google is your friend: Hit 1: 3 COND 75 OHM TRIAX VIDEO CABLE Hit 2: RGB CABLE/VXT2000 - BC29H-2E - BC29H2E Conclusion: It's the video cable for the VXT2000 terminal.. Keys wrote: > Does anyone know what this cable is used for? digital BC29H-2E, Rev-B01, > 47746 are the numbers on it. Thanks > /wai-sun From terry at beam.ltd.uk Thu Apr 29 05:32:28 2004 From: terry at beam.ltd.uk (Terry Barnaby) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: Re. HP64000, aka offering help to duplicate HP64K disquettes Message-ID: <4090D9BC.9040907@beam.ltd.uk> Hi, I noticed a post you made some time ago about recovering files from old HP64000 5.25inch floppy disks. I have the same problem, some old HP64000 floppies which I would like to get the contents off. I would be gratefull for any information on the HP64000 disk format and any tools you found to do this. Cheers Terry -- Dr Terry Barnaby BEAM Ltd Phone: +44 1454 324512 Northavon Business Center, Dean Rd Fax: +44 1454 313172 Yate, Bristol, BS37 5NH, UK Email: terry@beam.ltd.uk Web: www.beam.ltd.uk BEAM for: Visually Impaired X-Terminals, Parallel Processing, Software "Tandems are twice the fun !" From XNEDAF at aol.com Thu Apr 29 12:46:07 2004 From: XNEDAF at aol.com (XNEDAF@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: tu58 - reading off end of reel? Message-ID: <8a.97c48da.2dc2995f@aol.com> Brad, Where were you able to find the TU 58 capstan rollers, I have four TU 58 drives, and they all need new capstan rollers. I would certainly appreciate any help or direction you can offer. Thanking you in advance for your help. Steve Faden xnedaf@aol.com From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Thu Apr 29 15:18:05 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? References: Message-ID: <00cf01c42e29$4b3de1a0$4b434ed5@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 11:17 PM Subject: Re: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? > > I have to agree with endorsing K&R... That's how I learned C twenty years > > ago. I don't think any of the books that have followed have done as good > > a job of presenting the material. Yes, C has changed, but that's window > > dressing compared to the underlying concepts. > > It's like many other things (electronic being one of them). A good book > remains a good book, even if the subject changes somewhat. If you > understand the 'old version' properly, then you'll have no problems > picking up the new stuff. The principles remain the same. > > Put it this way. I'd rather work with an electronic designer who was an > expert on valves (and had never seen a transistor) than somsbody who'd > been on a 2 week course on the latest devices. The former will pick up > the new devices in an afternoon :-), and will really understand what he's > doing with them. > > -tony Couldn't agree more. Geoff. From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Apr 29 15:45:41 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: tu58 - reading off end of reel? References: <8a.97c48da.2dc2995f@aol.com> Message-ID: <009c01c42e2a$ef682320$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Speaking of which.... I have two TU58 drives, both have a bad set of rollers. One is built into the 11/44 cabinet, one is a standalone desktop version. I decided to follow the "tygon tubing solution", but haven't actually done it yet. I have two questions: 1) What is the best way to cut the tubing to get nice clean round edges? I tried to make a slice, but the tube gets bent/flattened due to the pressing down of the blade so the resulting cut is "oval". Some kind of hot wire/knife maybe? Gently sawing would leave jagged edges... ideas? 2) The old gummy roller comes off, but there is still some gunk left on the metal capstan center. I could put the tube over this, but it may slip a bit perhaps. Is there a good way to get the final remaining goo off the capstan? I'm afraid to scrub it or anything for fear of damaging the tachometer hub. Oh, and also, anyone have a good source for blank media for the TU58? Thanks! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Apr 29 16:01:33 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: tu58 - reading off end of reel? Message-ID: <200404292101.OAA19326@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jay West" > >Speaking of which.... > >I have two TU58 drives, both have a bad set of rollers. One is built into >the 11/44 cabinet, one is a standalone desktop version. I decided to follow >the "tygon tubing solution", but haven't actually done it yet. I have two >questions: > >1) What is the best way to cut the tubing to get nice clean round edges? I >tried to make a slice, but the tube gets bent/flattened due to the pressing >down of the blade so the resulting cut is "oval". Some kind of hot >wire/knife maybe? Gently sawing would leave jagged edges... ideas? Hi Try rolling it with a blade. Don't try to cut all the way though on each pass, just cut a little deeper. > >2) The old gummy roller comes off, but there is still some gunk left on the >metal capstan center. I could put the tube over this, but it may slip a bit >perhaps. Is there a good way to get the final remaining goo off the capstan? >I'm afraid to scrub it or anything for fear of damaging the tachometer hub. > Clean it off! Try various solvents. Dwight >Oh, and also, anyone have a good source for blank media for the TU58? > >Thanks! > >Jay West > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From bernd at kopriva.de Thu Apr 29 16:27:51 2004 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: Monitor/Video Cable Information for HP9000/300 needed Message-ID: <200404292140.i3TLeQdl037919@huey.classiccmp.org> Hi, i got a small lot of HP9000 stuff, including amongst other things a HP9133 (that's the reason, why i took it), and a HP 9000/300 and a HP35731A monitor. The HP9000 has a HP98456A included. Unfortunately, there was no cable included. What cable do i need for either the builtin video adapter or the HP98456A ? Can a HP35741A monitor be used too ? Thanks Bernd From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 29 17:46:50 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: IBM ps/2 P70 Plasma screen voltages In-Reply-To: <16529.1235.226313.439096@gargle.gargle.HOWL> from "Paul Koning" at Apr 29, 4 09:36:19 am Message-ID: > I only know plasma panels from earlier days, when they were applied by > their original inventor to the terminals of the PLATO system. Those [...] > addressing in core memories. So those plasma panels had inherent > memory, no refresh needed. I have a plasma display on my HP Intyegral, and I am darn sure it gets continuosuly refreshed, The video controller, on logic board B, is an HP custom chip with some DRAM hung off it. The signals to the display itself are very similar to those used to drive a dot matrix LCD panel -- there seems to be a dot clock, horizontal sync (start of a new line), vertical sync, and a number of data lines. That panel takes an 18V or so power input, but there's certainly a step-up converter on the back of the panel. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 29 17:48:52 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx update In-Reply-To: <200404291608.i3TG8Bdl034313@huey.classiccmp.org> from "Witchy" at Apr 29, 4 04:54:47 pm Message-ID: > Well, I've resoldered all dull and 2 cracked connections and I still get no > voltage on the outputs so I'm looking at a failed component somewhere in the > 5V circuit...... Can somebody tell me how this auxilliary 5V supply is produced? Is it a separate linear PSU, a separate swiching PSU, or the main PSU running at a much reduced drive (like the standby mode of many TVs over here)? When I know a little more about the supply I might be able to suggest what to look for. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 29 17:59:34 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: Mac Plus with (minor) issues In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Apr 29, 4 02:14:49 pm Message-ID: > > All, > Two separate (?) issues with my Mac Plus. > > 1) Screen display is too far to the left. > 2) System seems *very* sensitive to voltage setting. [...] > Everything (all pixels) is shifted uniformly to the left > about 5 mm. I found the "width" setting on the analog board (well > duh, read the label on the cardboard shield) and fooled with it > (system on, plastic tool). Works fine, image gets narrower and wider. > I can set it narrow enough that pixels are all on the phosphor, so > the system is usable - but it's aesthetically slightly annoying to > have everything to the left of where I expect it. I could not find a > setting to shift left/right. It's just like a B&Q TV (OK, I am probably the only one to remember working on those :-)). On the back of the yoke are 2 metal plates. Rotating them, either together or in oposite directios, will move the picture (strictly the raster, but anyway..) around on the screen. Is there a 'horizontal phase' control? That has the effect of a horizontal shift, at least over part of its range. I really can't be bothered to move the 20 or so cameras that are on top of my Mac+ schematics folder... > Problem is present either with or without the Brainstorm > installed, so I don't think it's related to that. I *think* the > problem first appeared when I took out the "Elf Armor" mu-metal ELF > shield that I got back when that was hot psuedo-science, my wife used > the machine a lot, and we were expecting our first child (see the > connection? :-) ). Significance of that is I had to unplug the cable > from the back of the CRT, so might I have knocked something askew? You could easily have knocked the centering rings. > > Voltage sensitivity: > > System started occasionally resetting itself. Opened it up, > stuck the VOM on ground (frame) and 5 V (using the pin in the middle > of the Analog -> Digital board connector, at the digital board) and > found it reading a *little* (maybe 0.05 V?) shy of 5 V. OK, (duh, > read the label on the cardboard analog board shield again) set the A Mac should run at 4.95V... > voltage higher, with system running. I can set it quite a bit higher, > up to around 5.1 V. System keeps running. However, when I power-cycle > at that setting, it goes into an endless loop of "chirp, chirp, > chirp..." and the VOM stays near 0 V (wiggling at each chirp). OK.. My first guess is that your meter is not telling the whole story. You've got ripple, or more exactly spikes, on the PSU outputs. The average voltage may be around 5V (that's what the meter shows), the spikes trip the crowbar. I would start checking capacitors on the output side of the power supply (look for electrolytics with a 16V or 25V voltage rating). If you've got high ESR here, you will have that sort of ripple. > Q3) I assume there is a minimum voltage at which I'll also start to > see freezes/lockups. True? Am I better off hunting for the lowest > possible voltage, or try to find a "happy medium"? I don't believe the 5V line is that critical unless you've got a seriously marginal chip in there. My guess is that the PSU is not behaving, and that the output voltage is not telling the whole story. In general, adjustments do not drift!. YOu rearely, if ever, cure a fault by tweakinga preset. More likely some component has failed. > Bonus Q5) Is that right? Isn't that a recipe for thermal and > electrical disaster? (I guess not, it runs, but....) I would assume the Brainstrom 'requests the bus' from the 68000 (AFAIK nothing else ever does on the Mac+, so there's no conflict here), effectively disabling the 68000. All the 68000's outputs will be tri-stated (high impedance) in that case. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 29 18:02:15 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: Mac Plus with (minor) issues In-Reply-To: from "chris" at Apr 29, 4 03:52:46 pm Message-ID: > The analog board from those Macs was notoriously flaky. Lots of under > rated parts that burned out easily. Probably Apple worst power supplies. That figures from Apple :-( > Ironically, the 2nd worst are the CRT iMacs that brought back that same > style computer. And ironically, the iMacs are bad for the same reason, > under rated components that burned out from normal use. You would think > Apple would have been more careful the 2nd time around :-) You mean 'at least 3rd time around'. The Apple ][ PSU is marginal, or at least mine was. The 5V line was rated (IIRC) at 2.5A. A mainboard, language card, disk controller, and 1 drive (i.e. not a very full machine) exceeded that on my meter. Perhaps I was just unlucky and had parts that took more current than normal, but I had a lot of trouble with the Apple ]['s PSU... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 29 18:03:41 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? In-Reply-To: <00cf01c42e29$4b3de1a0$4b434ed5@geoff> from "Geoffrey Thomas" at Apr 29, 4 09:18:05 pm Message-ID: > > Put it this way. I'd rather work with an electronic designer who was an > > expert on valves (and had never seen a transistor) than somsbody who'd > > been on a 2 week course on the latest devices. The former will pick up > > the new devices in an afternoon :-), and will really understand what he's > > doing with them. > Couldn't agree more. Now all I have to do is convince potential employers of that fact :-). Just because I've not used the particular chip they're specifying doesn't mean I can't pick it up darn quicking if I have to... -tony From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Apr 29 15:35:26 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: More DEC equipment spotted in Kansas City In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001001c42e29$80c6de30$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Think roughly the equivalent of 2-3 19" racks, and that's just for > the single enclosure holding the CPU. You'll need at least a 19" > rack for the disk drives. A single VAX 6000 cab is (from memory) a bit wider than a 19" rack, but not by more than maybe a hand each side. There was an official cab kit that let you run a set of RA7x drives (maybe in an SA7x enclosure) in the bottom of the VAX 6000 cab. There may even have been an official way to run a brace of RA9x drives in there too. So it would be possible to run a VAX 6000 in a single cab. These days, assuming you are not going to be asking for official support :-), you could try cramming an HSJ and a string of SCSI drives in the bottom and stick a DSSI card in the 6000 ... Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Apr 29 18:35:03 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: Anybody ever use Aztec C for APPLEII? In-Reply-To: <20040428075427.GE30653@bos7.spole.gov> References: <20040427223335.C173E10B1310@swift.conman.org> <20040428075427.GE30653@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040429182902.04e77ce8@pc> At 02:54 AM 4/28/2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: >I had a toy C compiler for the C-64 years and years ago... I don't think I >tried to compile anything over about 25 lines with it - it was too cumbersome >to use and took forever to compile anything. I think I bought that one, too - developed by a college kid in Canada, as I recall. If someone's hunting for clues on running Aztec for Apple II, you could always track down its author, Jim Goodnow, who was active in the Amiga community and after that, Viscorp and REBOL. I seem to remember that him telling stories about how he used a PDP-11 to bootstrap the first versions of Manx's compiler. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Apr 29 18:36:47 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: tu58 - reading off end of reel? In-Reply-To: <009c01c42e2a$ef682320$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <8a.97c48da.2dc2995f@aol.com> <009c01c42e2a$ef682320$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040429183539.04e77910@pc> At 03:45 PM 4/29/2004, Jay West wrote: >1) What is the best way to cut the tubing to get nice clean round edges? I >tried to make a slice, but the tube gets bent/flattened due to the pressing >down of the blade so the resulting cut is "oval". Some kind of hot >wire/knife maybe? Gently sawing would leave jagged edges... ideas? If the plastic tubing was kept round by inserting a suitable dowel or rod, it could be cut straight. Think about a pipe cutter. - John From RMaxwell at atlantissi.com Thu Apr 29 18:46:21 2004 From: RMaxwell at atlantissi.com (RMaxwell@atlantissi.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:11 2005 Subject: Re. HP64000, aka offering help to duplicate HP64K disquettes Message-ID: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F802F1288E@inetmail.atlantissi.com> Terry, I contacted Michel Bissonette regarding his post: his MS-DOS utility could duplicate HP64000 floppies, but made no effort at extracting content. Since I wanted to port the data to DOS, it wasn't what I needed. I have been recovering HP64000 files from floppies written by a 64000 that no longer boots. To save myself from too much low-level programming, I've been using a Kaypro 4/84 to do the first stage: it has MFDISK, a multi-format utility that reads HP-125 CP/M disks, which happen to have the same track/sector/low level layout as the 64000 format. With a quasi-compatible link to the low level, I use DUU (V8.7), a CP/M utility that allows read/write/view access to the tracks and sectors. This allows me to access the directory (completely incompatible with CP/M or DOS), locate the files' start- and end-points, and trace their content along the disk. HP64000 data are in 2044-byte sectors, with an additional two byte pointer to the previous sector at the start, and another two bytes at the end pointing to the next sector (total 2048). DUU just copies sectors verbatim to a native Kaypro CP/M disk via a RAM buffer (files bigger than 32K come out in chunks due to the fact that DUU, CP/M and the buffer all share one 64K RAM space). Kaypro CP/M disk files port to MS-DOS using the 22DSK utility (incidentally, 22DSK's HP-125 emulation doesn't help on HP64000 disks, because the first thing it looks for is the CP/M directory). I have quick-and-dirty Turbo Pascal conversion programs that extract ASCII-format text from editor files, and binary images from assembler objects: each editor record ("line") of a file starts with a byte indicating the length of the PREVIOUS record and a second byte indicating the length of the CURRENT one. Line lengths are measured in 16-bit words - the editor pads odd-length lines with a space character. Lengths of zero mark beginning-of-file in the previous-length byte, and end-of-file for the current-length byte. This clever technique allows an editor to move quickly back and forth through a file line-by-line, but would get seriously messed up if it lost synchronization. I have technical details of where I found directory entries, what I've decoded and how the operating system refers to individual sectors and can provide you with that, probably best if I do that off-list (unless somebody REALLY wants it posted!). Now that I've detailed my less-than-direct solution, I'm waiting for some enterprising person who's willing to do the low-level floppy operations on a PC so one machine can do the whole thing in a step... Bob Maxwell > -----Original Message----- > > From: Terry Barnaby > Subject: Re. HP64000, aka offering help to duplicate HP64K disquettes > > Hi, > > I noticed a post you made some time ago about recovering files from > old HP64000 5.25inch floppy disks. > I have the same problem, some old HP64000 floppies which I would > like to get the contents off. > I would be gratefull for any information on the HP64000 disk format > and any tools you found to do this. > > Cheers > > Terry > -- > Dr Terry Barnaby BEAM Ltd > Phone: +44 1454 324512 Northavon Business > Center, Dean Rd > Fax: +44 1454 313172 Yate, Bristol, BS37 5NH, UK > Email: terry@beam.ltd.uk Web: www.beam.ltd.uk > BEAM for: Visually Impaired X-Terminals, Parallel Processing, Software > "Tandems are twice the fun !" > > > ------------------------------ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Apr 29 20:08:00 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 8, Issue 56 In-Reply-To: Mark Tapley "Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 8, Issue 56" (Apr 29, 13:01) References: <200404291700.i3TH04dl034593@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <10404300208.ZM2063@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 29, 13:01, Mark Tapley wrote: > I have forgotten, did we ever have a discussion about whether > scanners/photocopiers/etc. have enough UV content in their lights to > erase UV-EPROMs, if the sticker has come off? I sort-of recall we > did, but don't remember the outcome. I don't remember that exact discussion, but if we had it, my input would have been along the following lines. Firstly, most scanners and photocopier use visible light and have very little if any UV output. Secondly, EPROMs are only susceptible to short wavelength UV, which doesn't go through glass very well. Lastly, it takes about 20 minutes to erase an EPROM an inch away from a normal eraser's tube, and a few minutes to begin to do much harm, so the second or so it would be exposed in a scanner is inconsequential. In other words, don't worry about it :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From chd_1 at nktelco.net Thu Apr 29 21:40:20 2004 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: new 8in floppy disks Message-ID: <4091BC94.7090100@nktelco.net> Is there a source for new 8in floppy disks? New old stock is fine. I just would like a box of unused blank disks. Two reasons, first I have a STD bus computer with a Z80 CPU and dual 8in drives (one that does not work) that I might like to play with. Second I have an IBM S/34 that has an 8in drive and I need a box of disk for someone to copy some disks for me... -chuck From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Apr 29 21:50:19 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: new 8in floppy disks Message-ID: <200404300250.TAA19531@clulw009.amd.com> >Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:40:20 -0400 >From: "Charles H. Dickman" >> >Is there a source for new 8in floppy disks? New old stock is fine. I >just would like a box of unused blank disks. > >Two reasons, first I have a STD bus computer with a Z80 CPU and dual 8in >drives (one that does not work) that I might like to play with. Second I >have an IBM S/34 that has an 8in drive and I need a box of disk for >someone to copy some disks for me... > >-chuck > > > Hi Chuck Look at comp.os.cpm. There is a fellow there that just posted some for sale. Dwight From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Apr 29 22:36:56 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: HP Historical record References: <001b01c42d98$5b80c0a0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <001f01c42e64$638340d0$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Great stuff Jay thanks! ed sharpe! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 8:16 PM Subject: HP Historical record > I just found this fairly detailed history of HP computing products and > operating systems. It filled in a LOT of gaps I was unaware of. Extremely > interesting reading for HP fans. Don't let the title fool you, it's not just > RTE, it's everything computing related :) There were a few "firsts" HP had > in the minicomputer market that I wasn't aware of some of them. VERY good > info! Example - I had no idea the 21MX/F was discontinued well before the > 21MX/E. > > http://www.interex.org/tech/csl/RTE/archive/poyner1.htm > > Regards, > > Jay West > > > From dan at ekoan.com Thu Apr 29 22:40:01 2004 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: Anyone need a DEC LN03S board? Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040429233403.05590eb0@enigma> I've got a spare board for a DEC LN03S laser printer, condition unknown. You can see a couple of photos at www.decodesystems.com/dec-ln03s.html Drop me a note off-line if you're looking for one. Cheers, Dan From cb at mythtech.net Thu Apr 29 22:47:18 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: Mac Plus with (minor) issues Message-ID: >You mean 'at least 3rd time around'. The Apple ][ PSU is marginal, or at >least mine was. The 5V line was rated (IIRC) at 2.5A. A mainboard, >language card, disk controller, and 1 drive (i.e. not a very full >machine) exceeded that on my meter. Perhaps I was just unlucky and had >parts that took more current than normal, but I had a lot of trouble with >the Apple ]['s PSU... Yeah, come to think of it, I do seem to recall swapping a number of A2 PSU's back then. That was before I was willing to try component repairs, so it was simple swaps of bad for good. -chris From bob at jfcl.com Thu Apr 29 23:00:44 2004 From: bob at jfcl.com (Robert Armstrong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: Free shipping on SBC6120/PDP-8 Kits for VCF weekend! Message-ID: <000401c42e67$b99893f0$d002010a@LIFEBOOK> Guys, In case you haven't heard, this weekend VCF/Europe will be held in Munich for the 5th year. If you live in Europe and have the chance to go, I recommend it! http://www.vcfe.org/E/ Spare Time Gizmos will be there with our "Build your own PDP-8 from a kit!" kit, the SBC6120 http://sbc6120.SpareTimeGizmos.com and in honor of VCF/Europe we'll be giving free shipping to anybody, anywhere in the world, who orders any SBC6120 parts or kits this weekend. Just place your order thru our online store, http://store.SpareTimeGizmos.com anytime Saturday or Sunday (May 1st/2nd) and pay via PayPal and you won't be charged for shipping. And be sure to send your thanks to Hans Franke and the other helpers at VCF/Europe for putting on another great show. Bob Armstrong From aek at spies.com Fri Apr 30 00:55:38 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history Message-ID: <200404300555.i3U5tcO0027470@spies.com> I was wondering how much information is around on the microprocessors HP built in the late 70's/early 80's I found some information on the MC2 in the Osborne processor books from '79, and it appears an MC5 is used as the maint processor in the HP3000 Series 44. Anyone know what processor is used in the HP64000? One note on Usenet claimed it was an Inmos part? From jeklopf at COCACOLAOZARKS.COM Thu Apr 29 17:20:13 2004 From: jeklopf at COCACOLAOZARKS.COM (John E. Klopfenstein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: TOA Manual.. Message-ID: Chris, I was just looking through the net looking for a manual for a TOA A-912 and saw you had one in 2002. You had posted a message indicating it was up for grabs. I was wondering if you still had it or a copy. We have one at our company and no manual. We are changing phone systems and have no idea how thw A912 interfaces with the phone system we have now. Any info is appreciated... John E. Klopfenstein Network Administrator Ozarks Coca-Cola/Dr Pepper Bottling Co. 417-865-9900 ext 355 jeklopf@cocacolaozarks.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- FIGHT BACK AGAINST SPAM! Download Spam Inspector, the Award Winning Anti-Spam Filter http://mail.giantcompany.com From bill_mcdermith at mcdermith.net Fri Apr 30 01:40:05 2004 From: bill_mcdermith at mcdermith.net (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history In-Reply-To: <200404300555.i3U5tcO0027470@spies.com> References: <200404300555.i3U5tcO0027470@spies.com> Message-ID: <4091F4C5.8000708@mcdermith.net> Al Kossow wrote: > I was wondering how much information is around on the > microprocessors HP built in the late 70's/early 80's > > I found some information on the MC2 in the Osborne processor > books from '79, and it appears an MC5 is used as the maint > processor in the HP3000 Series 44. > > Anyone know what processor is used in the HP64000? One note > on Usenet claimed it was an Inmos part? Actually, it used the BPC processor, which is the CPU part of the mutli-chip set used in the 9825 calculator. The BPC was a cross between the hp2100 instruction set and the 21MX instruction set. It had byte-addressable instructions, and a return stack with a JSB variant that would push the return address on the stack instead of the first word of the target subroutine (necessary if the program was in rom...) Initially there were some development tools on the HP3000, but by the time I had started to work on it, there was a Pascal compiler and assembler on the 64000 itself that would target it, and we only used the 3000 for the parser generator used to handle the function keys. Pretty sure it was manufactured somewhere in California, the guys making calculators would be a good bet... Don't think I have a BPC manual around, but I'll take a look... Bill McDermith From lists at microvax.org Fri Apr 30 04:51:57 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Fun Video from 1978 In-Reply-To: <200404290031.i3T0Vbdl029585@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200404290031.i3T0Vbdl029585@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <200404301051.57306.lists@microvax.org> On Thursday 29 April 2004 01:17, Neil Breeden wrote: > All, > > I recently ran across a cool old video form 1978. It shows a concept > for using an internet based phone (VoIP???). It starts with some video > of a PDP11. It features cool 1978 fashions and haircuts. I found this > video rather fun to watch, the H/W in it really takes me back to the 70s > and early 80s. It's a 60meg download from my home web server (250KBS > uplink) so it will take 30 minutes plus to get a copy. If someone wants > to repost it someplace with better bandwidth please feel free. > > Hopefully everyone won't hit the server at once. :) > > http://24.17.121.14/Movies/VoIP_1978.ZIP > > -Neil Wow, that was cool for the blinkylights - shame about the suits though ;) Since neil's bandwidth's being hit pretty hard, would anybody prefer me to throw up a torrent? alex/melt From vax3900 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 30 05:15:58 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips only? Message-ID: <20040430101558.90105.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> I talked with my friend the other day and he claimed that 386 motherboards all used this or that chip sets; But I vaguely remember I might once have such a 386. It had a 287 math coprocessor and some memory chips on board. What I can remember is that it had many logic chips on board but I can't recall whether it had chip sets or not. Unluckly I dumped it years ago... Could somebody give me an answer? vax, 3900 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri Apr 30 05:44:30 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: Anyone need a DEC LN03S board? In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040429233403.05590eb0@enigma> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040429233403.05590eb0@enigma> Message-ID: <200404301050.GAA01999@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I've got a spare board for a DEC LN03S laser printer, > condition unknown. You can see a couple of photos at > www.decodesystems.com/dec-ln03s.html > > Drop me a note off-line if you're looking for one. I have no particular use for that - but I have an LN03. (It might be an LN03S for all I know, though the front panel says just LN03.) It seems to be somewhat sick; last time I powered it up (at least a year ago) it showed some two-digit hex code on the display and lit up its "call field circu^H^H^H^H^Hservice" light. I don't expect to use it again, even were it to be fixed; I have other printers that are better suited to my usage patterns. Cover shipping - or pick it up from Montreal - and it's yours. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From rmeenaks at olf.com Fri Apr 30 05:55:10 2004 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: Microway Number Smasher-860 Message-ID: <0HWZ003ZTCZW79@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Hi, I picked up a Microway Number Smasher-860 processing board (v1.1). I have the Portland Group's i860 ANSI C Compiler (came with the transtech i860 vector processing tram), but no other i860 software. Would any of you guys have any software/manual/drivers for this board. I wanted to get this board for a looooong time ever since I saw those ads in Byte. I drooled over this for years, but couldn't afford the hefty price for one.... Thanks, Ram From melamy at earthlink.net Fri Apr 30 06:11:57 2004 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips only? Message-ID: <10520298.1083323517819.JavaMail.root@waldorf.psp.pas.earthlink.net> I worked with many systems back in the middle to late 80s when the 386 was in vogue. I don't recall any of them using an older 287 math coprocessor though. Here is a link to a page full of mbs and DTK did indeed make a discrete chip 386 motherboard back then. The co-processor was a 387 though. http://www.redhill.net.au/b-92.html best regards, Steve Thatcher -----Original Message----- From: SHAUN RIPLEY Sent: Apr 30, 2004 6:15 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips only? I talked with my friend the other day and he claimed that 386 motherboards all used this or that chip sets; But I vaguely remember I might once have such a 386. It had a 287 math coprocessor and some memory chips on board. What I can remember is that it had many logic chips on board but I can't recall whether it had chip sets or not. Unluckly I dumped it years ago... Could somebody give me an answer? vax, 3900 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Fri Apr 30 06:50:43 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: Need original Windows 3.0 install disks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40923D93.5090004@ntlworld.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Wed, 28 Apr 2004, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > >>>Has anyone got the original Windows 3.0 install disks? I have the >>>original package and everything but the disks are missing :( >>> >>> >>Is the media that came with the package 5 1/4" or 3 1/2"? >> >> > >I'm pretty certain it was 5.25". > > > I had it on 3.5" for both a zenith and a nimbus at the time. Dan From cbajpai at comcast.net Fri Apr 30 07:03:57 2004 From: cbajpai at comcast.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips only? In-Reply-To: <20040430101558.90105.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000401c42eab$3aae8e20$707ba8c0@xpdesk> I think you are talking about one of the earliest Mylex (or AMI?) 386 motherboards. The reason for the 287 was that the 387 coprocessor was not available immediately after the 386 introduction. I remember evaluating such a product right after Comdex 1986 or 1987. -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of SHAUN RIPLEY Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 6:16 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips only? I talked with my friend the other day and he claimed that 386 motherboards all used this or that chip sets; But I vaguely remember I might once have such a 386. It had a 287 math coprocessor and some memory chips on board. What I can remember is that it had many logic chips on board but I can't recall whether it had chip sets or not. Unluckly I dumped it years ago... Could somebody give me an answer? vax, 3900 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From vax3900 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 30 07:33:16 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips only? In-Reply-To: <10520298.1083323517819.JavaMail.root@waldorf.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20040430123316.83614.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> My oldest 386 motherboard so far is http://www.geocities.com/MSCPSCSI/PHOTOS/dscn2978.jpg It uses CHIPS 82A203, 82A204 and 82C206 chip set. --- Steve Thatcher wrote: > I worked with many systems back in the middle to > late 80s when the 386 was in vogue. I don't recall > any of them using an older 287 math coprocessor > though. Here is a link to a page full of mbs and DTK > did indeed make a discrete chip 386 motherboard back > then. The co-processor was a 387 though. > > http://www.redhill.net.au/b-92.html > > best regards, Steve Thatcher > > -----Original Message----- > From: SHAUN RIPLEY > Sent: Apr 30, 2004 6:15 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips > only? > > I talked with my friend the other day and he claimed > that 386 motherboards all used this or that chip > sets; > But I vaguely remember I might once have such a 386. > It had a 287 math coprocessor and some memory chips > on > board. What I can remember is that it had many logic > chips on board but I can't recall whether it had > chip > sets or not. Unluckly I dumped it years ago... Could > somebody give me an answer? > > vax, 3900 > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From vax3900 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 30 07:36:22 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips only? In-Reply-To: <000401c42eab$3aae8e20$707ba8c0@xpdesk> Message-ID: <20040430123622.38179.qmail@web60707.mail.yahoo.com> The brand on the computer case is either SSS or SD. Can't remember clearly. vax, 3900 --- Chandra Bajpai wrote: > > I think you are talking about one of the earliest > Mylex (or AMI?) 386 > motherboards. The reason for the 287 was that the > 387 coprocessor was > not available immediately after the 386 > introduction. I remember > evaluating such a product right after Comdex 1986 or > 1987. > > -Chandra > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of > SHAUN RIPLEY > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 6:16 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips > only? > > I talked with my friend the other day and he claimed > that 386 motherboards all used this or that chip > sets; > But I vaguely remember I might once have such a 386. > It had a 287 math coprocessor and some memory chips > on > board. What I can remember is that it had many logic > chips on board but I can't recall whether it had > chip > sets or not. Unluckly I dumped it years ago... Could > somebody give me an answer? > > vax, 3900 > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Fri Apr 30 07:44:51 2004 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips only? In-Reply-To: <20040430101558.90105.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040430101558.90105.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1083329091.2261.4.camel@azure> On Fri, 2004-04-30 at 05:15, SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: > I talked with my friend the other day and he claimed > that 386 motherboards all used this or that chip sets; > But I vaguely remember I might once have such a 386. > It had a 287 math coprocessor and some memory chips on > board. What I can remember is that it had many logic > chips on board but I can't recall whether it had chip > sets or not. Unluckly I dumped it years ago... Could > somebody give me an answer? Yes, some early 386 motherboards did allow using a 287 FPU unit in them ... mainly because when the 386 was initially released the 387 chip was not available IIRC. I also remember several motherboards that had slots for a non-intel memory mapped FPU unit that used addresses above the 16MB mark to tell it what operation to perform. I think we had a Compaq Deskpro 386 that had a 287 in it. Regards, Paul From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Fri Apr 30 07:56:37 2004 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips only? In-Reply-To: <20040430101558.90105.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040430101558.90105.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1083329797.2260.6.camel@azure> On Fri, 2004-04-30 at 05:15, SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: > I talked with my friend the other day and he claimed > that 386 motherboards all used this or that chip sets; > But I vaguely remember I might once have such a 386. > It had a 287 math coprocessor and some memory chips on > board. What I can remember is that it had many logic > chips on board but I can't recall whether it had chip > sets or not. Unluckly I dumped it years ago... Could > somebody give me an answer? Here is one I found http://www.thegreenhouse.us/th99/m/A-B/30072.htm Paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Apr 30 08:40:33 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: IBM ps/2 P70 Plasma screen voltages References: <16529.1235.226313.439096@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <16530.22353.875000.899601@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell writes: >> I only know plasma panels from earlier days, when they were >> applied by their original inventor to the terminals of the PLATO >> system. Those Tony> [...] >> addressing in core memories. So those plasma panels had inherent >> memory, no refresh needed. Tony> I have a plasma display on my HP Intyegral, and I am darn sure Tony> it gets continuosuly refreshed, The video controller, on logic Tony> board B, is an HP custom chip with some DRAM hung off it. The Tony> signals to the display itself are very similar to those used to Tony> drive a dot matrix LCD panel -- there seems to be a dot clock, Tony> horizontal sync (start of a new line), vertical sync, and a Tony> number of data lines. Yes, that certainly makes sense. I didn't mean that PC type plasma panels would use the inherent memory feature. But it still wouldn't surprise me to see the complicated high voltage AC main power supply just as on the original design. paul From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Apr 30 09:14:43 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips only? In-Reply-To: <20040430123316.83614.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Apr 2004, SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: > My oldest 386 motherboard so far is > > http://www.geocities.com/MSCPSCSI/PHOTOS/dscn2978.jpg > > It uses CHIPS 82A203, 82A204 and 82C206 chip set. > AFAIK, that's Chips & Technology, but I could be mistaken. Is the slot that's parallel with slot 8 a memory expansion connector? If so, have you ever seen one that would fit it? I've seen those connectors on 386 and 486 boards before, but I've never seen anything that would fit them. g. From vax3900 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 30 09:21:09 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips only? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040430142109.49555.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gene Buckle wrote: > Is the slot that's parallel with slot 8 a memory > expansion connector? If > so, have you ever seen one that would fit it? I've > seen those connectors > on 386 and 486 boards before, but I've never seen > anything that would fit I have not seen one yet. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From esharpe at uswest.net Fri Apr 30 09:27:05 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history References: <200404300555.i3U5tcO0027470@spies.com> Message-ID: <001301c42ebf$36b77340$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> somewhere I have stuff on the hp 3000 micro processor that was in the 3000 series 30 and 33 it was silicon on sapphire. would like even more info on it and also a few other examples of it. all we have for a physical example is one in a block of resin that was a hp presentation item. can not get to the leads inside to play with it and too cute to hack up! ed sharpe archivist for smecc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" To: Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 10:55 PM Subject: hp proprietary uP history > > I was wondering how much information is around on the > microprocessors HP built in the late 70's/early 80's > > I found some information on the MC2 in the Osborne processor > books from '79, and it appears an MC5 is used as the maint > processor in the HP3000 Series 44. > > Anyone know what processor is used in the HP64000? One note > on Usenet claimed it was an Inmos part? > > > From marvin at rain.org Fri Apr 30 09:30:02 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips only? References: <20040430123316.83614.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <409262EA.51EB1C5F@rain.org> Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Compaq make the first 386 to get to market? While I generally don't collect anything past the original IBM PC, I made an exception in that case since it was the first PC 386 compatible and came out IIRC because IBM was dragging their feet. The machine is too buried to check out the motherboard, but I don't think it used a chipset and was built with discrete parts. SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: > > My oldest 386 motherboard so far is > > http://www.geocities.com/MSCPSCSI/PHOTOS/dscn2978.jpg > > It uses CHIPS 82A203, 82A204 and 82C206 chip set. > > --- Steve Thatcher wrote: > > I worked with many systems back in the middle to > > late 80s when the 386 was in vogue. I don't recall > > any of them using an older 287 math coprocessor > > though. Here is a link to a page full of mbs and DTK > > did indeed make a discrete chip 386 motherboard back > > then. The co-processor was a 387 though. > > > > http://www.redhill.net.au/b-92.html > > > > best regards, Steve Thatcher > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: SHAUN RIPLEY > > Sent: Apr 30, 2004 6:15 AM > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips > > only? > > > > I talked with my friend the other day and he claimed > > that 386 motherboards all used this or that chip > > sets; > > But I vaguely remember I might once have such a 386. > > It had a 287 math coprocessor and some memory chips > > on > > board. What I can remember is that it had many logic > > chips on board but I can't recall whether it had > > chip > > sets or not. Unluckly I dumped it years ago... Could > > somebody give me an answer? > > > > vax, 3900 From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Apr 30 09:30:28 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history References: <200404300555.i3U5tcO0027470@spies.com> <001301c42ebf$36b77340$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: <002201c42ebf$af66d600$033310ac@kwcorp.com> A combination of 2100 and 21MX instruction sets? Umm... the 21MX is just a superset of 2100? --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From aek at spies.com Fri Apr 30 10:39:21 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips only? Message-ID: <200404301539.i3UFdLjb013147@spies.com> What I can remember is that it had many logic chips on board but I can't recall whether it had chip sets or not. Unluckly I dumped it years ago... Could somebody give me an answer? == The earliest 386 designs were modifications to existing 286 ones that did not use chip sets. Chips and Technologies was one of the first companies to integrate the functions onto ASICs. The design I remember was sold by Everex and also used by Novell and was all DIP ICs which had the memory on a separate plugin board with a very wide edge connector (DIPs, later SIMMs). From kenziem at sympatico.ca Fri Apr 30 10:38:40 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: new 8in floppy disks In-Reply-To: <4091BC94.7090100@nktelco.net> References: <4091BC94.7090100@nktelco.net> Message-ID: <200404301138.40948.kenziem@sympatico.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 29 April 2004 22:40, Charles H. Dickman wrote: > Is there a source for new 8in floppy disks? New old stock is fine. I > just would like a box of unused blank disks. > > Two reasons, first I have a STD bus computer with a Z80 CPU and dual 8in > drives (one that does not work) that I might like to play with. Second I > have an IBM S/34 that has an 8in drive and I need a box of disk for > someone to copy some disks for me... Yes I picked up a case last year, still in the shrink wrap. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAknMALPrIaE/xBZARAp2CAKClrmI7x2eNpubGiT8DYkogLhWLMQCgnD3Y gJoCj2HJ/+ROzXICyXW1N0Q= =CTSQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From allain at panix.com Fri Apr 30 12:07:51 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: semi-OT: text lites References: Message-ID: <001801c42ed5$ac59e220$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > The first thing I would do is to trace where the connections > from the serial port go. Opening it up I learned via the prominent rectifier that the power is AC at least. There's a big Toshiba TMP80C49P that looks like a 'keyboard' MCU to me. Some minor things like Motorola SN74LS(05N,138N). Nearest the SIO port are just a few resistors and two transistors. At least one leg of the SIO goes directly to the toshiba. Looks non-RS232 then... Whatsit 5V instead of 15? > If one of them is at a -ve voltage, ... "ve"... Eh? John A. From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Fri Apr 30 12:26:42 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: Free shipping on SBC6120/PDP-8 Kits for VCF weekend! References: <000401c42e67$b99893f0$d002010a@LIFEBOOK> Message-ID: <40928C52.9D0BE037@msm.umr.edu> Robert Armstrong wrote: > Guys, > > In case you haven't heard, this weekend VCF/Europe will be held in > Munich for the 5th year. If you live in Europe and have the chance to > go, I recommend it! > > http://www.vcfe.org/E/ > > Spare Time Gizmos will be there with our "Build your own PDP-8 from a > kit!" kit, the SBC6120 > > http://sbc6120.SpareTimeGizmos.com > > and in honor of VCF/Europe we'll be giving free shipping to anybody, > anywhere in the world, who orders any SBC6120 parts or kits this > weekend. Just place your order thru our online store, > > http://store.SpareTimeGizmos.com The above goes to a directory with cgi-bin (at least in Mozilla) Actually http://www.SparetimeGizmos.com/Store.htm seemed to get to their online store. I think the original link may require some web server tweak to work or be blocked. > > > anytime Saturday or Sunday (May 1st/2nd) and pay via PayPal and you > won't be charged for shipping. > > And be sure to send your thanks to Hans Franke and the other helpers > at VCF/Europe for putting on another great show. > > Bob Armstrong > > From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Fri Apr 30 12:26:42 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: Free shipping on SBC6120/PDP-8 Kits for VCF weekend! References: <000401c42e67$b99893f0$d002010a@LIFEBOOK> Message-ID: <40928C52.9D0BE037@msm.umr.edu> Robert Armstrong wrote: > Guys, > > In case you haven't heard, this weekend VCF/Europe will be held in > Munich for the 5th year. If you live in Europe and have the chance to > go, I recommend it! > > http://www.vcfe.org/E/ > > Spare Time Gizmos will be there with our "Build your own PDP-8 from a > kit!" kit, the SBC6120 > > http://sbc6120.SpareTimeGizmos.com > > and in honor of VCF/Europe we'll be giving free shipping to anybody, > anywhere in the world, who orders any SBC6120 parts or kits this > weekend. Just place your order thru our online store, > > http://store.SpareTimeGizmos.com The above goes to a directory with cgi-bin (at least in Mozilla) Actually http://www.SparetimeGizmos.com/Store.htm seemed to get to their online store. I think the original link may require some web server tweak to work or be blocked. > > > anytime Saturday or Sunday (May 1st/2nd) and pay via PayPal and you > won't be charged for shipping. > > And be sure to send your thanks to Hans Franke and the other helpers > at VCF/Europe for putting on another great show. > > Bob Armstrong > > From bert at brothom.nl Fri Apr 30 13:27:31 2004 From: bert at brothom.nl (Bert Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: semi-OT: text lites References: <001801c42ed5$ac59e220$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <40929A93.BF329781@brothom.nl> John Allain wrote: > > There's a big Toshiba TMP80C49P that looks like a 'keyboard' > MCU to me. Some minor things like Motorola SN74LS(05N,138N). > Nearest the SIO port are just a few resistors and two > transistors. At least one leg of the SIO goes directly to > the toshiba. Looks non-RS232 then... Whatsit 5V instead of 15? Not necessarily: you can convert the voltage levels with just a few discrete components. Mostly in such cases the receiving voltages are used to charge a capacitor that delivers the negative voltage for sending data. In that case there must be a diode somewhere in the neighbourhood as well. Bert From lists at microvax.org Fri Apr 30 12:58:27 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: semi-OT: text lites In-Reply-To: <001801c42ed5$ac59e220$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <001801c42ed5$ac59e220$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <200404301858.27398.lists@microvax.org> On Friday 30 April 2004 18:07, John Allain wrote: > > If one of them is at a -ve voltage, ... > > "ve"... Eh? -ve : negative voltage. As opposed to +ve :) From bob at jfcl.com Fri Apr 30 13:05:35 2004 From: bob at jfcl.com (Robert Armstrong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: Free shipping on SBC6120/PDP-8 Kits for VCF weekend! In-Reply-To: <40928C52.9D0BE037@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: <001c01c42edd$bfc9f3b0$0801010a@LIFEBOOK> > http://store.SpareTimeGizmos.com > The above goes to a directory with cgi-bin (at least in Mozilla) This works for me, although I confess to using IE6. This link is a redirect, so I guess it might not work with some browsers. >http://www.SparetimeGizmos.com/Store.htm If the first link doesn't work for you then you're welcome to use this one. It actually takes you to the same page, either way. BTW, I've added a nice photo of the display unit that went to VCF/Europe here http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/images/SBC6120%20(VCFe%20Model). jpg Anybody else have trouble with the store.SpareTimeGizmos.com link? Thanks, Bob From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Apr 30 14:42:22 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: [OT] Wichita, KS? Message-ID: Hi All, While going through the *pile* of mail here at the office, I also found a box filled with DEC cards. It was shipped by someone in Wichita, KS, but no name. I *do* remember buying this, but can't find a record of who I bought it from. If this is you... please respond off-list, since I can't remember whether I *paid* for it or not... Thanks for the OT-ing, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Apr 30 15:04:18 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: Looking for TSB authors Message-ID: <005f01c42eee$52057500$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Anyone know if Mike Green and/or Steve Porter are still alive and reachable? I was hoping to approach them about jotting down some history of HP2000 TimeShared BASIC. Any leads appreciated! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri Apr 30 16:57:06 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: semi-OT: text lites In-Reply-To: <001801c42ed5$ac59e220$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <001801c42ed5$ac59e220$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20040430215706.GA28329@bos7.spole.gov> On Fri, Apr 30, 2004 at 01:07:51PM -0400, John Allain wrote: > There's a big Toshiba TMP80C49P that looks like a 'keyboard' > MCU to me. Some minor things like Motorola SN74LS(05N,138N). > Nearest the SIO port are just a few resistors and two > transistors. At least one leg of the SIO goes directly to > the toshiba. Looks non-RS232 then... Whatsit 5V instead of 15? On one of my Futaba VFDs (inside a "Pole Display", just like the kind you see at WalMart - 20x2 in a rectangular box on top of a 1-1/2" pipe), has a _really_ simple RS-232 level shifter on a small PCB that sits on the back of the VFD itself... it's no more than two resistors and a transistor. The Futaba display wants TTL serial (+5V/GND), but the Pole Display spec is (over a 6-pin DIN identical to what C= used for their IEC bus) RS-232 serial in and about 7-9VAC (which is rectified and passed through a 7805 on that same little daughterboard). "Official" RS-232 is anywhere from +/-3V up to +/-15V (check the output of a laptop sometime - it's nowhere close to +/-15V). TTL never goes negative. Check to see that your "direct leg" isn't your ground. Those transistors and resistors could easily be your level shifters. Worst case, though, if you are only sending to the device and don't have to read from it, is to send it TTL levels (buffered of course, to protect your sending device), and it may well be able to receive. You'd need to know the character protocol to be sure the device understood you, though. The 80C49 _was_ commonly used for keyboards, but is just a general- purpose Intel microcontroller. We used one in a product that was never very successful (I think we sold 3!) called the "ComBox". I still have several dozen sets of parts to assemble, if there were ever a demand - an 8049 between two SLIC (Subscriber Line Integrated Circuits), simulating the CO between two phones. Depending on the number you dialed, you could get a half-connection, a full connection, a connection without ring, or any one of a number of busy signals. We used it for developing auto-dial software for, what was that standard, V.25?, the kind that came out after 801ACUs. I didn't write the code for our 8049 (the hardware engineer did, but don't get me started about EEs and firmware...), but I did have to analyze it for a proposal for a follow-on product that we never made - same hardware, but the firmware would generate European rings and busy signals, to test U.S. gear against non-U.S. signals. I don't recall if the 8049 has a security fuse, but worst case, you might be able to pull the microcontroller and get a dump of the firmware. ISTR it only has like 2K of EPROM on it; certainly no more than 8K. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 30-Apr-2004 21:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -87.5 F (-66.4 C) Windchill -126.9 F (-88.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8.30 kts Grid 127 Barometer 674.4 mb (10836. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 30 17:03:20 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: FA: More DEC stuff Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040430180320.008998c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I just posted a bunch more DEC stuff on E-bay including an A8000 A/D card and some other odd stuff. I will be posting more soon. Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 30 17:37:21 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: Mac Plus with (minor) issues In-Reply-To: from "chris" at Apr 29, 4 11:47:18 pm Message-ID: > Yeah, come to think of it, I do seem to recall swapping a number of A2 > PSU's back then. That was before I was willing to try component repairs, > so it was simple swaps of bad for good. Well, if you're swapping in an identical unit, you'll not cure the problem. The replacement is just as marginal... That's _another_ reason why module-swapping is a bad idea. It assumes the machine was correctly designed in the first place. Alas this is not always the case -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 30 17:41:37 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips only? In-Reply-To: <20040430101558.90105.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> from "SHAUN RIPLEY" at Apr 30, 4 03:15:58 am Message-ID: > > I talked with my friend the other day and he claimed > that 386 motherboards all used this or that chip sets; > But I vaguely remember I might once have such a 386. There were, of course, kludgeboards to replace a286 with a 386 or even a 486 without replacing the entire motherboard. I'm running one at the moment in a PC/AT (true-blue IBM) board. Now that motherboard doesn't have a 'chipset' as such -- it's all TTL, a couple of PROMs, a couple of PALs (actually HALs -- the mask-programmed equivalent), and the normal Intel support chips. So that would make a 386 machine without a 'chipset' (one reason why I run it, actually). I've never seen a commercial 386 or higher motherboard without a 'chipset', but would love to find one if they ever existed! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 30 17:46:48 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: IBM ps/2 P70 Plasma screen voltages In-Reply-To: <16530.22353.875000.899601@gargle.gargle.HOWL> from "Paul Koning" at Apr 30, 4 09:40:33 am Message-ID: > Yes, that certainly makes sense. I didn't mean that PC type plasma > panels would use the inherent memory feature. But it still wouldn't > surprise me to see the complicated high voltage AC main power supply > just as on the original design. It wouldn't suprise me either... Alas I know little about the display panel in the Integral. The rest of the machine was mostly stnadard chips (68000, TTL, DRAMs, ROM, etc) and HP parts that I had data on (1LB3 HPIL chip, Thinkjet printer chipset, etc). The only thing I had to puzzle out was the display controller, and that didn't take too long However, the display seems to be all custom chips on the back (well, there were a couple I could identify, and many more I couldn't). And because of the high voltages, I didn't want to probe around too much with the LogicDart (which has a maximum input voltage of 40V -- it's fine for a board of logic, even if there are RS232 drivers on it, but not on a plasma panel). So I indentifed the signals on the input connector and left it at that. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 30 17:53:00 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: semi-OT: text lites In-Reply-To: <001801c42ed5$ac59e220$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Apr 30, 4 01:07:51 pm Message-ID: > > +AD4- The first thing I would do is to trace where the connections > +AD4- from the serial port go. > > Opening it up I learned via the prominent > rectifier that the power is AC at least. > > There's a big Toshiba TMP80C49P that looks like a 'keyboard' > MCU to me. Some minor things like Motorola SN74LS(05N,138N). It's a standard microcontroller, intenral ROM. Look for the '8048' -- the 8049 is the same chip with more memory (and the 8050 has even more), the 'C' in the middle means a CMOS low-power part. > Nearest the SIO port are just a few resistors and two > transistors. At least one leg of the SIO goes directly to Could be anything, including RS232 buffers.... You can convert RS232 levels to TTL using an NPN transistor, a diode (if you're a purist -- connect it across the BE junction of the transistor to prevent the latter breaking down on a -ve input) and 3 resistors. You can do the reverse -- TTL to RS232 levels with a PNP transsitor and 3 resistors, assuming a -ve voltage line is available, and that a 5V ouptu-high level is enough. One 'quick-n-dirty; trick I've seen is to use a 79x05 as the power supply regulator (so the unregulated +ve line is the 5V line, the output of the regulator is the system 0V line), and to use the unregulated input to the regulator, which will be 4 or 5V below 'ground' as the -ve supply to the RS232 transmitter. > the toshiba. Looks non-RS232 then... Whatsit 5V instead of 15? Could be... I would trace out all 3 connections from the serial connector, at least as far as the microcontorller pins. Can't be that big a job.... > > +AD4- If one of them is at a -ve voltage, ... > > +ACI-ve+ACI-... Eh? Negative. '+ve' is positive... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 29 18:03:22 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: semi-OT: text lites In-Reply-To: <20040430215706.GA28329@bos7.spole.gov> from "Ethan Dicks" at Apr 30, 4 09:57:06 pm Message-ID: > On one of my Futaba VFDs (inside a "Pole Display", just like the kind > you see at WalMart - 20x2 in a rectangular box on top of a 1-1/2" pipe), > has a _really_ simple RS-232 level shifter on a small PCB that sits on > the back of the VFD itself... it's no more than two resistors and a > transistor. The Futaba display wants TTL serial (+5V/GND), but the Really dirty trick, used in a lot of commercial modems : Feed the RS232 signal through a resistor in to a 74HC or 74HCT input. Use the protection diodes of the chip to clamp the signal. Preferably add a pull up/down resistor as well. No, I don't like it either! > Pole Display spec is (over a 6-pin DIN identical to what C= used for > their IEC bus) RS-232 serial in and about 7-9VAC (which is rectified That, actually, is the standard 6 pin DIN connector. > and passed through a 7805 on that same little daughterboard). > > "Official" RS-232 is anywhere from +/-3V up to +/-15V (check the > output of a laptop sometime - it's nowhere close to +/-15V). TTL Doens't that depend on the Laptop. I have an idea (without proof, and the service manual/schematics are upstairs) that the HP110 and Portable+ gave out rather more than +/-5V on the RS232 port. > never goes negative. Check to see that your "direct leg" isn't your > ground. Those transistors and resistors could easily be your level > shifters. Worst case, though, if you are only sending to the > device and don't have to read from it, is to send it TTL levels > (buffered of course, to protect your sending device), and it may > well be able to receive. You'd need to know the character protocol One other trap. Almost all RS232 receivers (including the 1-transistor one) invert the signal -- a +ve voltage on the input gives a TTL 0 on the output. So you may need to put an inverter between your TTL serial output and the device. Admission time : I have once used a 74LS04 as an 'RS232 driver'. It didn't meet the spec at all, of course, but since I knew the characteristics of the only port I was going to use the device with, it worked. I also once used a 1489 (qwuad RS232 receiver -- converts RS232 to TTL levels) as a driver too -- A TTL signal will meet the input spec of that device, and the output will also work into the input of another 1489. Meant I could use 1 chip from the junk box to link my TTL design to an RS232 port. No way would I do something like this in a device that was going out to somebody else, or one which I was going to use on a variety of machines. -tony From allain at panix.com Fri Apr 30 18:14:59 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: semi-OT: text lites References: <001801c42ed5$ac59e220$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <200404301858.27398.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <001b01c42f09$33346760$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> e? From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Apr 30 18:25:52 2004 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips only? References: <20040430101558.90105.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4092E080.5020500@tiac.net> Heck yes! I was envolved in the development of a 386SX-16 motherboard that used no VLSI chipset. It did use a large number of GAL's however. It drew an absurd ammount of power compared to any chipset on the market back then, but it also outperformed all of them, due to a decent 2-way cache design. NEC produced and sold this motherboard. I was given one of the later prototypes, and use it as my PC for a time. Then it hung on my wall as a trophy for a time, and then was shipped overseas to my Father in law, and he ran it for a long time. I'd asked that it be returned when it was obsolete by overseas standards, but alas it was lost. But never the less, not all 386 motherboards used VLSI chipsets. SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: >I talked with my friend the other day and he claimed >that 386 motherboards all used this or that chip sets; >But I vaguely remember I might once have such a 386. >It had a 287 math coprocessor and some memory chips on >board. What I can remember is that it had many logic >chips on board but I can't recall whether it had chip >sets or not. Unluckly I dumped it years ago... Could >somebody give me an answer? > >vax, 3900 > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > From cbajpai at comcast.net Fri Apr 30 18:28:33 2004 From: cbajpai at comcast.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:12 2005 Subject: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips only? In-Reply-To: <20040430123622.38179.qmail@web60707.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c42f0a$daee8660$707ba8c0@xpdesk> There was a company called CSS...but their motherboard looked very similar to another company...I think it was Mylex. This is all pre-Chip&Tech 82C206 Integrated Peripheral Control (8259/8255/8237 all on one chip) -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of SHAUN RIPLEY Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 8:36 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips only? The brand on the computer case is either SSS or SD. Can't remember clearly. vax, 3900 --- Chandra Bajpai wrote: > > I think you are talking about one of the earliest > Mylex (or AMI?) 386 > motherboards. The reason for the 287 was that the > 387 coprocessor was > not available immediately after the 386 > introduction. I remember > evaluating such a product right after Comdex 1986 or > 1987. > > -Chandra > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of > SHAUN RIPLEY > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 6:16 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips > only? > > I talked with my friend the other day and he claimed > that 386 motherboards all used this or that chip > sets; > But I vaguely remember I might once have such a 386. > It had a 287 math coprocessor and some memory chips > on > board. What I can remember is that it had many logic > chips on board but I can't recall whether it had > chip > sets or not. Unluckly I dumped it years ago... Could > somebody give me an answer? > > vax, 3900 > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Apr 30 19:06:48 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:13 2005 Subject: Vectrex goes for $400 Message-ID: <01bc01c42f10$33fbf8f0$61406b43@66067007> Up until last spring these units were showing up everywhere here, now I can't find them. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19198&item=8102092891 From t.dekker at student.utwente.nl Fri Apr 30 19:57:25 2004 From: t.dekker at student.utwente.nl (Thomas Dekker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:13 2005 Subject: IBM ps/2 P70 Plasma screen voltages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200405010057.i410vJM20265@netlx014.civ.utwente.nl> It would surprise me though, :) These newer displays update pixels at 25Mhz, switching a high supply voltage on and off at this rate and getting a square wave is somewhat impossible. But even if you can, the radio magnetic interference emitted from the wires would mess up any signal far beyond the display board. You want to keep any signal leads short and next to a ground plane or some other grounded leads. My board even has shielding magnets glued to the display. There's also a rather large zener diode on my board, often used for voltage stabilization by keeping the voltage at a fixed level. I tried to get it to conduct by slowly incrementing my lab power supply. It reached it's max at 30V still nothing had happened. It does give another clue though about the display needing a large stable supply voltage. Btw, that LogicDart looks like a great tool, bit expensive for a student though :( Thomas. -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] Namens Tony Duell Verzonden: zaterdag 1 mei 2004 0:47 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: Re: IBM ps/2 P70 Plasma screen voltages > Yes, that certainly makes sense. I didn't mean that PC type plasma > panels would use the inherent memory feature. But it still wouldn't > surprise me to see the complicated high voltage AC main power supply > just as on the original design. It wouldn't suprise me either... Alas I know little about the display panel in the Integral. The rest of the machine was mostly stnadard chips (68000, TTL, DRAMs, ROM, etc) and HP parts that I had data on (1LB3 HPIL chip, Thinkjet printer chipset, etc). The only thing I had to puzzle out was the display controller, and that didn't take too long However, the display seems to be all custom chips on the back (well, there were a couple I could identify, and many more I couldn't). And because of the high voltages, I didn't want to probe around too much with the LogicDart (which has a maximum input voltage of 40V -- it's fine for a board of logic, even if there are RS232 drivers on it, but not on a plasma panel). So I indentifed the signals on the input connector and left it at that. -tony From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 30 20:02:43 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:13 2005 Subject: Vectrex goes for $400 In-Reply-To: <01bc01c42f10$33fbf8f0$61406b43@66067007> from "Keys" at Apr 30, 2004 07:06:48 PM Message-ID: <200405010102.i4112i34000967@onyx.spiritone.com> > > Up until last spring these units were showing up everywhere here, now I > can't find them. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19198&item=8102092891 > I've personally only seen one in person, and it had already been sold. It's one of the few game systems my wife and I haven't managed to collect. Zane From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Apr 30 20:57:16 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:13 2005 Subject: Still Looking for Parts to Complete Omnibot 2000 Message-ID: <020c01c42f1f$a29f5860$61406b43@66067007> I need two items to complete my omnibot 2000 robot. Missing are the tray and the home base. I have searched google and eBay with no luck. The sites that sell parts only have manuals, batteries, and chargers (from Radio Shack). It took me a year to get a remote control for it. Anyone with an extra tray? Thanks for your time. From cb at mythtech.net Fri Apr 30 21:16:29 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:13 2005 Subject: Mac Plus with (minor) issues Message-ID: >Well, if you're swapping in an identical unit, you'll not cure the >problem. The replacement is just as marginal... Yup... that's probably why I did LOTS of PSU swapping in the A2's :-) -chris From vax3900 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 30 22:12:14 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:13 2005 Subject: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips only? In-Reply-To: <000001c42f0a$daee8660$707ba8c0@xpdesk> Message-ID: <20040501031214.44294.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> My 386 motherboard uses 82C206+82A203+82A204. I know that 82C206 integrated two 8259s, two 8237s, one timer(8253? 54?), and one real time. Then what are 82A203 and 82A204 for? vax, 3900 --- Chandra Bajpai wrote: > There was a company called CSS...but their > motherboard looked very > similar to another company...I think it was Mylex. > > This is all pre-Chip&Tech 82C206 Integrated > Peripheral Control > (8259/8255/8237 all on one chip) > > -Chandra > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of > SHAUN RIPLEY > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 8:36 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: 386 motherboard with discrete logic > chips only? > > The brand on the computer case is either SSS or SD. > Can't remember clearly. > > vax, 3900 > > --- Chandra Bajpai wrote: > > > > I think you are talking about one of the earliest > > Mylex (or AMI?) 386 > > motherboards. The reason for the 287 was that the > > 387 coprocessor was > > not available immediately after the 386 > > introduction. I remember > > evaluating such a product right after Comdex 1986 > or > > 1987. > > > > -Chandra > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf > Of > > SHAUN RIPLEY > > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 6:16 AM > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: 386 motherboard with discrete logic chips > > only? > > > > I talked with my friend the other day and he > claimed > > that 386 motherboards all used this or that chip > > sets; > > But I vaguely remember I might once have such a > 386. > > It had a 287 math coprocessor and some memory > chips > > on > > board. What I can remember is that it had many > logic > > chips on board but I can't recall whether it had > > chip > > sets or not. Unluckly I dumped it years ago... > Could > > somebody give me an answer? > > > > vax, 3900 > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Apr 30 22:25:03 2004 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:13 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx update In-Reply-To: <200404291608.i3TG8Bdl034313@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20040429013139.CLBV22726.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040430202312.00acfec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >Well, I've resoldered all dull and 2 cracked connections and I still get no >voltage on the outputs so I'm looking at a failed component somewhere in the >5V circuit...... This is about the point where I would be checking continuity on all the power bus's etc. with an ohmmeter. From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Fri Apr 30 23:53:11 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:13 2005 Subject: [OT] Wichita, KS? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <72499D7C-9B2B-11D8-8870-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Apr 30, 2004, at 12:42 PM, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Hi All, > > While going through the *pile* of mail here at the office, I also > found a box filled with DEC cards. It was shipped by someone in > Wichita, KS, but no name. > > I *do* remember buying this, but can't find a record of who I > bought it from. If this is you... please respond off-list, since > I can't remember whether I *paid* for it or not... > > Thanks for the OT-ing, > Oh! Um Fred, Um it was me, yeah that's it .. It was me, and um you didn't pay yet um yeah nah kidding :^) > Fred > -- > Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) > Collector/Archivist > Visit the VAXlab Project at > http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.pdp11.nl/ > Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, > CA, USA > From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri Apr 30 21:12:50 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:13 2005 Subject: Still Looking for Parts to Complete Omnibot 2000 In-Reply-To: <020c01c42f1f$a29f5860$61406b43@66067007> References: <020c01c42f1f$a29f5860$61406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <20040501021250.GC17249@bos7.spole.gov> On Fri, Apr 30, 2004 at 08:57:16PM -0500, Keys wrote: > I need two items to complete my omnibot 2000 robot.... I don't have any parts for an OmniBot 2000, but do you (or anyone else on the list) happen to have an RB5X? I just learned that the company is still in business (and they respond to e-mail, eventually!) We had an RB5X at COSI (The Center of Science and Industry) in the mid-1980s. Three of the folks from the company came out to the museum to show us what it could do. One of its "features" is that you talk to it and program it over a serial connection in... Tiny Basic. That's right... it's an INS8073- based robot! I don't have any parts for one, but at home, I _think_ I still have a disc of programs that we wrote for it twenty years ago. If anyone on the list has one, I'd be curious to swap bits (obviously, it will take me a while to reciprocate). In other 8073 news, I did hear back from someone who, I think, was affiliated with Basicon. He promised to dig through his stacks of dusty paper and see what he has in the way of docs for the MC-1N Rev A. If all he has is paper, I might ask someone on the list to be the receiver in return for scans. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 01-May-2004 02:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -85.5 F (-65.4 C) Windchill -141.6 F (-96.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 11.6 kts Grid 124 Barometer 672.3 mb (10917 ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From bill_mcdermith at mcdermith.net Fri Apr 30 16:28:16 2004 From: bill_mcdermith at mcdermith.net (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:14 2005 Subject: hp proprietary uP history In-Reply-To: <002201c42ebf$af66d600$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <200404300555.i3U5tcO0027470@spies.com> <001301c42ebf$36b77340$0ed4e144@SONYDIGITALED> <002201c42ebf$af66d600$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <4092C4F0.7040006@mcdermith.net> Jay West wrote: > A combination of 2100 and 21MX instruction sets? Umm... the 21MX is just a > superset of 2100? Correct, but if my memory isn't completely gone, it had some of the 21mx instructions, some of the additional registers, like the amusing but less useful index registers, but not all of the 21MX instructions, and some of the ones that were included weren't implemented in the same way (or with the same bit pattern? Can't remember...) -- It seems to me that you couldn't just use a 21MX compiler to target a BPC, for example. It's just hard to remember, programmed it every day for a year in 1980, then moved on to the displays division in Colorado Springs, and never messed with it again... Bill McDermith From ian at viemeister.com Fri Apr 30 20:51:28 2004 From: ian at viemeister.com (Ian Viemeister) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:45:15 2005 Subject: new 8in floppy disks In-Reply-To: <4091BC94.7090100@nktelco.net> References: <4091BC94.7090100@nktelco.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, Charles H. Dickman wrote: > Is there a source for new 8in floppy disks? New old stock is fine. I > just would like a box of unused blank disks. I've got a pile of 8" disks in the garage, from a S/36 that sadly no longer exists. Many of the disks are used, but there may be a box or two of pristine disks. If you're local, and can pick them up, or would pay shipping (USA, NJ, 07110), you can have 'em. (They average about 15 years old.) > Two reasons, first I have a STD bus computer with a Z80 CPU and dual 8in > drives (one that does not work) that I might like to play with. Second I > have an IBM S/34 that has an 8in drive and I need a box of disk for > someone to copy some disks for me... Any chance you might have a use for the S/36 software, and/or the 10-disk "caddies" that the S/36 took? --Ian