From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Sat Nov 1 00:46:17 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: You're not dreaming (Was: Um, was there a...). In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031101064617.DF57F3E9EC@server1.messagingengine.com> Negative, Ghost Rider! The GRiD Compass was released in late '82-early '83, the first shuttle flight was in 1981. I also have a bulletin that Otrona released (circa late '84, not long after the release of the Otrona 2001), talking about how another company would take over service & support since they had gone under & couldn't afford it. It also gave a brief history of Otrona & the Attache, which the bulletin said they released in 1981 (Otrona themselves wrote this bulletin, so I'm not arguing it!). On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:33:17 -0800 (PST), "Vintage Computer Festival" said: > On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, David Vohs wrote: > > > One even flew on the space shuttle! I suppose this was before they > > changed to GRiDs. Can anyone confirm? > > As far as I know, the GRiD Compass went up on the first Shuttle flight. > Or at least, I'm certain it went up before an Attache did, since the > Attache wasn't produced until well after the GRiD was around. > > One site puts the Attache at 1984, which sounds appropriate. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and love email again From jrice54 at charter.net Sat Nov 1 08:28:07 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:45 2005 Subject: Next Cube B/W monitor feet? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20031031165841.04247400@mail.ubanproductions.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20031031165841.04247400@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3FA3C2F7.5030206@charter.net> That has happed on one of mine but noth the other three. The one that dissolved was a N4000. The N4000a's have all stayed in pretty good shape. I wonder if sony changed the rubber formulation of supplier between the 4000 and the 4000a. I've never looked for a replacement source, but would be inclined to contact some of the custom rubber suppliers to the automotive restorers. There are several that supply stock rubber as well as make one off castings from existing parts. James Tom Uban wrote: > Hello, > > The rubber roller "feet" on the B/W monitor for my Next Cube > have turned to mush. Does anyone know if there is a replacement > available for these? > > --tnx > --tom > > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat Nov 1 09:37:46 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:45 2005 Subject: Anyone wanna trade??? PDP 11/84 available... In-Reply-To: <001f01c3a027$c5a2dee0$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Curt vendel wrote: > Anyone interested in a trade? I have a PDP-11/84, it is missing the > 8191 Unibus adapter... what I really want is a PDP-11/x3 Qbus system, > preferrably something along the lines of an 11/73 or maybe an 11/83 in a > Microvax type chassis, but I'm not picky. I'd love to, since I am actually looking for a /84, but shipping would kill us. You should be able to get a BA123 chassis for cheap, though, and the rest is "standard" stuff of which I have zillions of spares (memory, rqdx3/rd5x/rx50, kda50-compatible ESDI controllers, serial, ethernet, etc) > for me, but I would really like to get a working Qbus system as I just got > my CDC-9766 and I've been spending nearly a week tearing it down, cleaning > and checking it and I have an electrician come next week to install my 220v > line so I can power it, so I really would like to get this beastie cozied up > to a nice PDP-11 along with my RK05. You can power a 9766 on regular 110, although it will pull a bit. But, if you want to connect that to the /84 or /x3, you'll need a Unibus or Qbus SMD controller- probably an Emulex or Dilog. I *know* I have some Dilog's for that which I don't use, since I stopped doing SMD a few years back... --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From curt at atarimuseum.com Sat Nov 1 09:49:26 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:45 2005 Subject: Anyone wanna trade??? PDP 11/84 available... References: Message-ID: <001201c3a08f$ba69cfd0$1a02a8c0@starship1> I guess I should add in that if you're not local, I will take my system down to Forward Air shipping and ship it to your local hub near all major airports and I would pay for it and I would also pay for shipping of your system to me. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 10:37 AM Subject: Re: Anyone wanna trade??? PDP 11/84 available... > On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Curt vendel wrote: > > > Anyone interested in a trade? I have a PDP-11/84, it is missing the > > 8191 Unibus adapter... what I really want is a PDP-11/x3 Qbus system, > > preferrably something along the lines of an 11/73 or maybe an 11/83 in a > > Microvax type chassis, but I'm not picky. > I'd love to, since I am actually looking for a /84, but shipping > would kill us. You should be able to get a BA123 chassis for > cheap, though, and the rest is "standard" stuff of which I have > zillions of spares (memory, rqdx3/rd5x/rx50, kda50-compatible > ESDI controllers, serial, ethernet, etc) > > > for me, but I would really like to get a working Qbus system as I just got > > my CDC-9766 and I've been spending nearly a week tearing it down, cleaning > > and checking it and I have an electrician come next week to install my 220v > > line so I can power it, so I really would like to get this beastie cozied up > > to a nice PDP-11 along with my RK05. > You can power a 9766 on regular 110, although it will pull a bit. > But, if you want to connect that to the /84 or /x3, you'll need > a Unibus or Qbus SMD controller- probably an Emulex or Dilog. > I *know* I have some Dilog's for that which I don't use, since > I stopped doing SMD a few years back... > > --f > -- > Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist > Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ > Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ > Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA > From vcf at siconic.com Sat Nov 1 10:25:57 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:45 2005 Subject: VCF 6.0 in 3D In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Roger Ivie wrote: > Hmm. Actually, I hadn't been thinking in terms of VCFe. Hmm. Munich, you > say? Hmm. My wife hasn't been to Europe and she'd really enjoy the > Deutsches Museum. Hmm. Could take a side trip to Stuttgart for the > Daimler Benz museum; haven't been there since the mid '70s. Hmm. And > I've never been to the Volkswagen Museum, despite being a Beetle > fanatic. Hmm. Hmm. You could also do Sindelfingen to hit the IBM Museum. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sat Nov 1 10:28:49 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:45 2005 Subject: Next Cube B/W monitor feet? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20031031165841.04247400@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Tom Uban wrote: > The rubber roller "feet" on the B/W monitor for my Next Cube > have turned to mush. Does anyone know if there is a replacement > available for these? I have the same problem. I believe the rollers on all the NeXT monitors I have are denuded by now. I imagine if someone can find an intact one, a replacement mold can be made so that new ones can be created with this plastics molding stuff over at the plastics shop (I forget what it is called just now). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sat Nov 1 10:45:04 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:45 2005 Subject: You're not dreaming (Was: Um, was there a...). In-Reply-To: <20031101064617.DF57F3E9EC@server1.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Nov 2003, David Vohs wrote: > Negative, Ghost Rider! The GRiD Compass was released in late '82-early > '83, the first shuttle flight was in 1981. I also have a bulletin that > Otrona released (circa late '84, not long after the release of the Otrona > 2001), talking about how another company would take over service & > support since they had gone under & couldn't afford it. It also gave a > brief history of Otrona & the Attache, which the bulletin said they > released in 1981 (Otrona themselves wrote this bulletin, so I'm not > arguing it!). I am almost certain that a GRiD was the first laptop to go into space. At least this has been the conventional historical anecdote. I don't doubt what you write above. I've always thought the Otrona came out much later than the Osborne 1 (which was also 1981) so this changes what I know. GRiD was founded in 1979. The first Compass into production was almost certainly in 1982. More research needed... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jrice54 at charter.net Sat Nov 1 11:01:10 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:45 2005 Subject: Next Cube B/W monitor feet? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA3E6D6.5090104@charter.net> I have two sets of intact ones. James Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Tom Uban wrote: > > > >>The rubber roller "feet" on the B/W monitor for my Next Cube >>have turned to mush. Does anyone know if there is a replacement >>available for these? >> >> > >I have the same problem. I believe the rollers on all the NeXT monitors I >have are denuded by now. I imagine if someone can find an intact one, a >replacement mold can be made so that new ones can be created with this >plastics molding stuff over at the plastics shop (I forget what it is >called just now). > > > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Nov 1 20:03:25 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:45 2005 Subject: Anyone wanna trade??? PDP 11/84 available... In-Reply-To: ; from waltje@pdp11.nl on Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 07:37:46 %z References: Message-ID: <20031102020325.GG1371@oblina.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.11.01 07:37 Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > I *know* I have some Dilog's for that which I don't use, since > I stopped doing SMD a few years back... You wane get rid of UNIBUS SMD controllers? I would be glad to have a UNIBUS SMD controller for my PDP-11/34. I don't know if I can get that rotten RK07 back to live, but I have some SMD disks... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat Nov 1 11:50:26 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:45 2005 Subject: Anyone wanna trade??? PDP 11/84 available... In-Reply-To: <20031102020325.GG1371@oblina.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Nov 2003, Jochen Kunz wrote: > You wane get rid of UNIBUS SMD controllers? I would be glad to have a > UNIBUS SMD controller for my PDP-11/34. I don't know if I can get that > rotten RK07 back to live, but I have some SMD disks... Correction: I have those for *qbus*, not unibus.. my collection of Unibus gear is, um, rather pathetic. Which of course I will blame on my parents: when I *did* have all that stuff, they didn't let me keep it because it took too much space in the garage. I ended up taking it to a fellow list member (Sipke) and trade it for the MicroPDP-11 (which I still have). *sniff* i want em back, sipke :( Damn, Jochen.. now you got me all depressed while remembering that :( --f From rickb at bensene.com Sat Nov 1 11:58:26 2003 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:45 2005 Subject: Friden 130 (All-electronic calculator, 1963) on EBay In-Reply-To: <20031031131153.17258.qmail@web80513.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002901c3a0a1$bf9fb700$030aa8c0@bensene.com> For more information: http://www.oldcalculatormuseum.com/friden130.html > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of William Maddox > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 5:12 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Friden 130 (All-electronic calculator, 1963) on EBay > > > I believe this machine used an acoustic delay-line memory. A > very nice piece of history. Item number: 2762297741 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2762297741&category=1 247&rd=1 --Bill From yakowenk at yahoo.com Sat Nov 1 13:53:13 2003 From: yakowenk at yahoo.com (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:45 2005 Subject: info on Data General 6243 terminal? Message-ID: <20031101195313.48753.qmail@web14503.mail.yahoo.com> On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > Does anyone have any info on the Data General model 6243 terminal? I > found sites that talk about various programs that emulate it but > nothing else. > > Joe Try searching for the terminal's "type" rather than its model number. For instance, model 6242 is type D210. And check out vt100.net; I think I saw a couple Dasher manuals there, though not for my D210. :-( (If anyone out there has a D210 manual, they need to shoot a copy over to Paul at vt100.net.) Cheers, Bill. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Nov 1 23:40:49 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:45 2005 Subject: Anyone wanna trade??? PDP 11/84 available... In-Reply-To: ; from waltje@pdp11.nl on Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 09:50:26 %z References: Message-ID: <20031102054049.GI1371@oblina.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.11.01 09:50 Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Correction: I have those for *qbus*, not unibus.. Sad. I already have some QBus MSCP SMD controllers, Emulex QD32 and QD33. BTW: I could use a UNIBUS RL02 controller as well. > Damn, Jochen.. now you got me all depressed while remembering that :( Do you want a VAX 6000 to compensate that? I was offered a VAX 6000 some time ago. I think it is still available. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat Nov 1 16:28:48 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:45 2005 Subject: Anyone wanna trade??? PDP 11/84 available... In-Reply-To: <20031102054049.GI1371@oblina.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Nov 2003, Jochen Kunz wrote: > BTW: I could use a UNIBUS RL02 controller as well. Yeah, me too. I also have an 11/34 which needs lots of goodies before it will be usable. The funny thing is... someone here in nL recently offered me an RL11.. mine to be had for only about EUR 75. *lol* > > Damn, Jochen.. now you got me all depressed while remembering that :( > Do you want a VAX 6000 to compensate that? I was offered a VAX 6000 > some time ago. I think it is still available. Um, ya know... no. Thanks for keeping me in mind tho ;-) Cheers, --fred (back to his MV3100-85 and installing OpenBSD on it) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Nov 1 17:20:44 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:45 2005 Subject: info on Data General 6243 terminal? In-Reply-To: <20031101195313.48753.qmail@web14503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031101182044.00807100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Bill, Thanks for the tip. I think the 6243 is a Dasher 211. But Paul doesn't have a manual for it :-( But I do have a Technical Manual for the "DGC Display 6012" and I've offered to let Paul scan it. Joe At 11:53 AM 11/1/03 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: >> Does anyone have any info on the Data General >model 6243 terminal? I >> found sites that talk about various programs that >emulate it but >> nothing else. >> >> Joe > >Try searching for the terminal's "type" rather than >its model number. For instance, model 6242 is type >D210. > >And check out vt100.net; I think I saw a couple >Dasher manuals there, though not for my D210. :-( >(If anyone out there has a D210 manual, they need >to shoot a copy over to Paul at vt100.net.) > > Cheers, > Bill. > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears >http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ > From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Sat Nov 1 18:04:40 2003 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: info on Data General 6243 terminal? References: <3.0.6.32.20031101182044.00807100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <018501c3a0d4$ed0b5680$acaafea9@newhare> The 6010/6011/6012/6013 series DG terminal codes are different than the later 6050+ series (including the Dasher 100, 200, 400, 460 and 470). I'll see what docs I can dig up and reply... Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 4:20 PM Subject: Re: info on Data General 6243 terminal? > Bill, > > Thanks for the tip. I think the 6243 is a Dasher 211. But Paul doesn't > have a manual for it :-( But I do have a Technical Manual for the "DGC > Display 6012" and I've offered to let Paul scan it. > > Joe > > > At 11:53 AM 11/1/03 -0800, you wrote: > >On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > >> Does anyone have any info on the Data General > >model 6243 terminal? I > >> found sites that talk about various programs that > >emulate it but > >> nothing else. > >> > >> Joe > > > >Try searching for the terminal's "type" rather than > >its model number. For instance, model 6242 is type > >D210. > > > >And check out vt100.net; I think I saw a couple > >Dasher manuals there, though not for my D210. :-( > >(If anyone out there has a D210 manual, they need > >to shoot a copy over to Paul at vt100.net.) > > > > Cheers, > > Bill. > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears > >http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ > > > From trash_tmp at poczta.onet.pl Sat Nov 1 18:19:48 2003 From: trash_tmp at poczta.onet.pl (trashcan man) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: [ot] anyone experienced with ibm personal power series 830? Message-ID: <20031102001947.GA296@trashcan.ds7> some time ago i found a mainboard from IBM Personal Power Systems 830. it's a PReP (or CHRP, i'm not sure) from about 1995[1]. i don't have a parity SIMMs and a cache module, that this machine was originally equipped with. yesterday it was working fine. well, almost - i couldn't figure out how to make it boot netbsd, it got hang after loading the image, however it could load SMS and pass all the test without problems. nevermind. one of things i tried was to update firmware to the latest (v1.10, from p8x0_110.exe, downloaded from ibm ftp site) version. now, during boot, when displaying the memory icon it makes a short beep and hangs, w/o any error icon. can anybody experienced with this hardware tell me, what should i do now? i guess nobody at ibm tested it without parity memory and without l2 cache module. should i get parity simm's, or a good soldering iron and memory flasher? silly me. before updating, i got into a firmware command line and made it load new firmware into memory and jump to it's entry point. it hanged in the exact same way it does now, except it showed an 'error 00020000' icon. i thought, 'well, it tries to reinit some device that does not like it'... and flashed the verified-not-to-work firmware into rom. [1]. so, strictly speaking, it's offtopic here. it wasn't too popular, however, and this is the most appropriate mailing list i found. From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat Nov 1 22:10:12 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: DG terminal Message-ID: <000c01c3a0f7$36899b60$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> The DG terminal I am looking for is the one pictured at this URL. Can someone tell me what model it is for sure? http://www.simulogics.com/museum/N4_1.JPG Thanks! Jay West From nick-classiccmp at rcpt.to Sun Nov 2 03:40:17 2003 From: nick-classiccmp at rcpt.to (Nick Bannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Next Cube B/W monitor feet? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20031031165841.04247400@mail.ubanproductions.com> References: <20031031072716.2009.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20031031165841.04247400@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <20031102094017.GH87617@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> On Fri, Oct 31, 2003 at 04:59:47PM -0600, Tom Uban wrote: > The rubber roller "feet" on the B/W monitor for my Next Cube > have turned to mush. Does anyone know if there is a replacement > available for these? I'd like "real" replacements, of course, but in the meantime, I've replaced mine with bicycle handle grips, which look OK. Nick. -- Nick Bannon | "I made this letter longer than usual because nick-sig@rcpt.to | I lack the time to make it shorter." - Pascal From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Nov 2 08:35:12 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Strange PCBs found at hamfest - GPIB? Message-ID: Hi all, I've just come back from the hamfest with yet more junk. Besides the large quantity of LEDs, LCD displays and magazines, I picked up a set of PCBs. Two of them are marked 'IHR "CSG" 1B' - these are fitted with four TIL311s each, as well as loads of 74LS logic ICs, circa 1981. There's also an IDC connector and some form of power connector. Next up is a 10-key keyboard - complete with 74C922 keyboard controller IC. This one bears the text 'keyboard (0-9) JRT'. A nice addition to my junk box :) Finally, I've got two boards with Fairchild (?) "96LS488DC 8128 USA" ICs fitted. One of them consists solely of a pair of IDC connectors, a power conector, a PAL12H6C (Monolithic Memories - there's a name I haven't heard for a while), an 8-way dipswitch and a pair of 74LS chips. This board is marked "IHR GPIB ADAPTER / MRC INSTITUTE OF HEARING RESEARCH". The last board has the same Fairchild chip (ceramic with brass cover) as the other board, but with four IDC connectors, loads of 74LS logic chips, three power connectors and a 5-way DIP switch. The board is marked "MRC IHR Controller / (C) MRC 1982". Can someone tell me what the 96LS488DC is? From what I can tell, it's a GPIB controller, whatever GPIB is. I'm still after a datasheet - nothing on Google besides a Chipdir listing. Sorry if this is off-topic - these boards seem to have come out of a computer of some form and I would like to know if any listmembers have heard of or seen anything similar. As far as the ten-year-rule goes, I think I'm well within the cutoff limit - these boards all carry dates of 1983 or earlier. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, Ethernet (Acorn AEH62), http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 8xCD, framegrabber, Teletext ... Batteries not included. From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Nov 2 08:46:56 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Strange PCBs found at hamfest - GPIB? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Can someone tell me what the 96LS488DC is? From what I can tell, it's a > GPIB controller, whatever GPIB is. I'm still after a datasheet - nothing on > Google besides a Chipdir listing. GPIB is the General Purpose Interface Bus. If memory serves me right, this is the same as HP's IEEE488 (HPIB) bus, which was meant to be a simple bus useable to connect HP's test/measure equipment together to controlling computers, for example. I believe the GPIB was a somewhat more generalized description, but essentially the same bus. --fred (back to work on his barely on-topic VAX 3100-85 of 1993) From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Sun Nov 2 09:07:17 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... References: <3FA2E627.7D496A84@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3FA51DA5.64E7B931@comcast.net> Anybody looking for these? I was at Computer Recycling & Refining in North Branford, CT Friday. Not a bad place. About 2000 square feet. And a bunch of stuff. Two interesting things I saw were a "Woz" signed IIgs (?) and a Dynabyte computer. According to the guy there, it was the first portable? Considering it's about the size of a couple mid-tower PCs, it's not really that portable... Either way, both are for sale. Give them a call, 203-488-0535. If you looking for some other PC or Mac computers or parts (pallets), maybe some HP switched hubs (at least 1 pallet), or even a couple large Cisco Catalyst 5500 units; they may be able to help you out. They welcome visitors, just call in advance... -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu Sun Nov 2 09:12:10 2003 From: chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu (James M. Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Strange PCBs found at hamfest - GPIB? References: Message-ID: <3FA51ECA.A4DA02D3@acsu.buffalo.edu> Phillip, GPIB is the "HP" general purpose interface bus, I use it here with some of the same cards in a 486DX rack mount computer to control some of my test equipment. To get more specific info on it do a Google search for National Instruments, and HPIB and it should bring up lots of makers of equipment for those as well. I control several "PTS" RF generators and an HP-8640B and a TEK 2712 Spectrum analyzer. They are great for control and the bus doesn't make as much RF hash as running a high speed pentium computer over a network does. Shout if you need pin outs and further descriptions. Jim WB2FCN http://eshop1.chem.buffalo.edu Philip Pemberton wrote: > > Hi all, > I've just come back from the hamfest with yet more junk. Besides the large > quantity of LEDs, LCD displays and magazines, I picked up a set of PCBs. Two > of them are marked 'IHR "CSG" 1B' - these are fitted with four TIL311s each, > as well as loads of 74LS logic ICs, circa 1981. There's also an IDC connector > and some form of power connector. > Next up is a 10-key keyboard - complete with 74C922 keyboard controller IC. > This one bears the text 'keyboard (0-9) JRT'. A nice addition to my junk > box :) > Finally, I've got two boards with Fairchild (?) "96LS488DC 8128 USA" ICs > fitted. One of them consists solely of a pair of IDC connectors, a power > conector, a PAL12H6C (Monolithic Memories - there's a name I haven't heard > for a while), an 8-way dipswitch and a pair of 74LS chips. This board is > marked "IHR GPIB ADAPTER / MRC INSTITUTE OF HEARING RESEARCH". > The last board has the same Fairchild chip (ceramic with brass cover) as > the other board, but with four IDC connectors, loads of 74LS logic chips, > three power connectors and a 5-way DIP switch. The board is marked "MRC IHR > Controller / (C) MRC 1982". > Can someone tell me what the 96LS488DC is? From what I can tell, it's a > GPIB controller, whatever GPIB is. I'm still after a datasheet - nothing on > Google besides a Chipdir listing. > Sorry if this is off-topic - these boards seem to have come out of a > computer of some form and I would like to know if any listmembers have heard > of or seen anything similar. As far as the ten-year-rule goes, I think I'm > well within the cutoff limit - these boards all carry dates of 1983 or > earlier. > > Later. > -- > Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, > philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, Ethernet (Acorn AEH62), > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 8xCD, framegrabber, Teletext > ... Batteries not included. From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Nov 2 10:10:37 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... In-Reply-To: <3FA51DA5.64E7B931@comcast.net> References: <3FA2E627.7D496A84@comcast.net> <3FA51DA5.64E7B931@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20031102160456.GC6221@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe David Woyciesjes, from writings of Sun, Nov 02, 2003 at 10:07:17AM -0500: > "Woz" signed IIgs (?) and a Dynabyte computer. According to the guy > there, it was the first portable? Considering it's about the size of a > couple mid-tower PCs, it's not really that portable... Either way, both > are for sale. Give them a call, 203-488-0535. If it's built like my Dynabyte 5100, then I wouldn't want to have to carry it around. :-) Note: the 5100 is not what one would call a portable computer... it has three separate stackable chasis, each weighing somewhere around 50lbs. These cases are made of fairly heavy weight steel and each has its own analog power supply. There's one case for the CPU, S-100 bus and I/O ports (eight or nine of them, IIRC), then a separate chasis for the very, very, loud Micropolis 10" hard drive and another chasis containing two Shugart DSDD floppy drives. Note that this system runs the MP/M-II operating system. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 2 10:22:42 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Strange PCBs found at hamfest - GPIB? In-Reply-To: from "Philip Pemberton" at Nov 2, 3 02:35:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1117 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031102/c0950201/attachment.ksh From vcf at siconic.com Sun Nov 2 11:41:39 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... In-Reply-To: <3FA51DA5.64E7B931@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Anybody looking for these? I was at Computer Recycling & > Refining in North Branford, CT Friday. Not a bad place. About 2000 > square feet. And a bunch of stuff. Two interesting things I saw were a > "Woz" signed IIgs (?) and a Dynabyte computer. According to the guy > there, it was the first portable? Considering it's about the size of a As soon as someone says anything is the "first", in fact as soon as that word comes out of their mouth, you can tell them they're wrong and be correct 99.995% of the time. The only Dynabyte computer I've ever seen is an S-100 machine. Are you sure it wasn't a Dyanlogic Hyperion? http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org/hypn/ -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From tradde at excite.com Sun Nov 2 12:08:46 2003 From: tradde at excite.com (Tim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: RGB monitor checkout Message-ID: <20031102180846.6C08CB6EB@xmxpita.excite.com> Is there an easy way to verify an RGB monitor is good? I don't appear to have any video equipment that provides RGB output. This monitor also has a separate sync input. Thanks for any suggestions. Tim R _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Nov 2 14:00:08 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Strange PCBs found at hamfest - GPIB? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40ce334b4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > I didn't think it was a controller, I thought it was the state machines > (and a little more) for the talker and listener handshake for GPIB. I'd still be interested in a datasheet. I'm in a strange mood today - maybe I could implement a GPIB controller in an FPGA :) > GPIB is essentially the same as HPIB or IEEE-488 (hence the number on the > chip :-)). I've heard of IEE488 - I might have a look at the specs later - it might be possible to implement a simple GPIB controller in an 8052 or a PIC (surprisingly enough, PICs are on topic - they were developed in the late 70s by General Instrument). > I think your cards are from peripherals, > not the control computer. Not that that's a major problem. Now all I need is the IEE488/GPIB/HPIB spec and a datasheet for the 96LS488. Thanks. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, Ethernet (Acorn AEH62), http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 8xCD, framegrabber, Teletext Never underestimate the power of human stupidity -- Robert A. Heinlein From uban at ubanproductions.com Sun Nov 2 14:07:08 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: MDOS (Motorola EXORciser) disk format ? Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20031102140442.043a43d8@mail.ubanproductions.com> A friend of mine has a pile (55) 8" floppies which were created on a Motorola EXORciser MDOS system. Does anyone know if the data on these disks can be recovered on a CPM system or similar, or will he need to find an EXORciser? --tnx --tom From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Nov 2 15:34:27 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Strange PCBs found at hamfest - GPIB? In-Reply-To: <40ce334b4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> References: <40ce334b4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <32895.64.169.63.74.1067808867.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Philip Pemberton" > I've heard of IEE488 - I might have a look at the specs later - it might > be possible to implement a simple GPIB controller in an 8052 or a PIC Some years back I built a serial adapter for use with HPIB (IEEE 488) plotters such as the 9872. It was based on a 1 MHz Rockwell R6511Q microprocessor, which is a 6502 derivative. I implemented the IEEE 488 protocol entirely in software. It wasn't too difficult. From awt at io.com Sun Nov 2 16:35:35 2003 From: awt at io.com (Wayne Talbot) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Passwrd for lost NEXT machine?? Message-ID: <1067812030.3528.4.camel@gandalf> How do I break into a NEXT machine where I know no passwords, root or otherwise? Is it possible to make this machine usable or am I going to have to wipe the drives and start over again? Any help is appreciated. -- Wayne Talbot From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Nov 2 16:42:31 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: MDOS (Motorola EXORciser) disk format ? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20031102140442.043a43d8@mail.ubanproductions.com > Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031102174231.007eb600@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I strongly suspect that you'll need an EXORciser system. Mike Haas has a couple but I don't know if they're working or even complete. What's on the disks? The EXORciser was a developement system for EXORbus computers. Joe At 02:07 PM 11/2/03 -0600, you wrote: >A friend of mine has a pile (55) 8" floppies which were created >on a Motorola EXORciser MDOS system. Does anyone know if the data >on these disks can be recovered on a CPM system or similar, or will >he need to find an EXORciser? > >--tnx >--tom > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Nov 2 16:37:15 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: DG terminal In-Reply-To: <000c01c3a0f7$36899b60$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031102173715.007d2ab0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I don't know what model it is. Why dont you post the question on the list. Soembody should know. Joe At 10:10 PM 11/1/03 -0600, you wrote: >The DG terminal I am looking for is the one pictured at this URL. Can >someone tell me what model it is for sure? > >http://www.simulogics.com/museum/N4_1.JPG > >Thanks! > >Jay West > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Nov 2 16:54:53 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: MDOS (Motorola EXORciser) disk format ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031102174231.007eb600@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031102174231.007eb600@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20031102145113.E51344@newshell.lmi.net> > A friend of mine has a pile (55) 8" floppies which were created > on a Motorola EXORciser MDOS system. Does anyone know if the data > on these disks can be recovered on a CPM system or similar, or will > he need to find an EXORciser? It is NOT CP/M. The data could be transferred using a CP/M system with a hardware compatible disk interface, a PC with added hardware, or anything else with compatible hardware, IFF you write a file system handler to parse the directory structures. I suspect that the EASIEST system to find that is hardware compatible would be a Motorola EXORciser MDOS system. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Nov 2 17:04:09 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Passwrd for lost NEXT machine?? In-Reply-To: <1067812030.3528.4.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: On 2 Nov 2003, Wayne Talbot wrote: > How do I break into a NEXT machine where I know no passwords, root or > otherwise? Is it possible to make this machine usable or am I going to > have to wipe the drives and start over again? Any help is appreciated. Hi Wayne. This has been posted on the list before. There are a couple methods. Do a Google search on these terms: root next cube site:classiccmp.org The third result will be relevant to you (be sure to click on the Google cached version since the CC archives are still offline). Try that out. If it doesn't work, wait a day or so and hopefully someone posts the more complete steps for changing the root password. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 2 17:19:58 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Strange PCBs found at hamfest - GPIB? In-Reply-To: <40ce334b4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> from "Philip Pemberton" at Nov 2, 3 08:00:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1414 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031102/f7220490/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 2 17:23:29 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: RGB monitor checkout In-Reply-To: <20031102180846.6C08CB6EB@xmxpita.excite.com> from "Tim" at Nov 2, 3 01:08:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 565 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031102/89113682/attachment.ksh From evan947 at yahoo.com Sun Nov 2 17:46:29 2003 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial Message-ID: <20031102234629.32464.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Hi everyone, check this out, Hummer used the old "Asteroids" video game in their latest commercial: http://www.hummer.com/hummerjsp/world/tv/index.jsp From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Sun Nov 2 18:28:24 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: OKIDATA OL830 LASER JET PRINTER - ERROR ENGINE FAN PROBLEM Message-ID: <3FA5A128.BAE51BA3@compsys.to> To be more specific: OKIDATA OL830 LED PAGE PRINTER Model No. EN257OHA When the power is applied, after a few seconds the front LED shows: "INITIALIZING" followed a few seconds later by the error message: ERROR ENGINE FAN PROBLEM At that point, the SERVICE LED turns red. Otherwise, everything else looks and sounds normal. I have managed to remove the top plastic portion of the case (two bolts at the front). Of course, when the power is applied in this case, the error is "COVER OPEN". The fan at the back rear on the left is free spinning, but is seems doubtful that is the problem. Had anyone the knowledge as to what might be wrong and how it can be fixed? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Nov 2 19:20:54 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: <20031102234629.32464.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, evan wrote: > Hi everyone, check this out, Hummer used the old > "Asteroids" video game in their latest commercial: > http://www.hummer.com/hummerjsp/world/tv/index.jsp Hummer: Everything That's Wrong With America -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Nov 2 19:30:09 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4343586E-0D9D-11D8-8EC4-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Sunday, November 2, 2003, at 07:20 PM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, evan wrote: > >> Hi everyone, check this out, Hummer used the old >> "Asteroids" video game in their latest commercial: >> http://www.hummer.com/hummerjsp/world/tv/index.jsp > > Hummer: Everything That's Wrong With America Hey Sellam, You could carry a lot more collected computers in a hummer than you could in that car in the pictures :^) > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Nov 2 19:37:04 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: <4343586E-0D9D-11D8-8EC4-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> References: <4343586E-0D9D-11D8-8EC4-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <20031102173624.Y54303@newshell.lmi.net> > Hummer: Everything That's Wrong With America There are many things that are wrong; not just the Hummer. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Nov 2 19:41:46 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: <4343586E-0D9D-11D8-8EC4-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > You could carry a lot more collected computers in a hummer than you > could in that car in the pictures :^) My 4-Runner is big enough, thank you (and it gets much better gas mileage). If I need to haul anything bigger then I'll rent a moving van. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sun Nov 2 20:08:52 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: <20031102173624.Y54303@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Fred Cisin wrote: > > Hummer: Everything That's Wrong With America > > There are many things that are wrong; not just the Hummer. I know, but to me, the Hummer represents it all in one nice, tidy, slickly commercialized package. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Nov 2 20:33:53 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial Message-ID: <7d.406ca65c.2cd71891@aol.com> In a message dated 11/2/2003 9:06:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, vcf@siconic.com writes: > On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Fred Cisin wrote: > > >>Hummer: Everything That's Wrong With America > > > >There are many things that are wrong; not just the Hummer. > > I know, but to me, the Hummer represents it all in one nice, tidy, slickly > commercialized package. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail The H2 is also for men who are trying to make up for their personal shortcomings IYKWIM. -- From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Nov 2 20:55:46 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: References: <20031102234629.32464.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20031103025008.GE6221@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Vintage Computer Festival, from writings of Sun, Nov 02, 2003 at 05:20:54PM -0800: > Hummer: Everything That's Wrong With America Actually, the desire to own a Hummer, or any SUV, is the result of un-treated station-wagon envy. Envy of real station wagons, that is, which are at least 18 feet long and weigh well over two tons, not those tiny little vehicles that are now sold as station wagons... you know the kind with fairly large to large V8 engines, body-on-frame construction, tailgates that open two ways and tailgate windows that open, which passengers can stick their feet out of while taking long rides. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From kd7bcy at teleport.com Sun Nov 2 21:04:15 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: <20031103025008.GE6221@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20031102234629.32464.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> <20031103025008.GE6221@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: >Envy of real station wagons, that is, which are at least 18 feet >long and weigh well over two tons Mmm... And the last one my dad had a number of years ago used more oil than gas. Gotta love those monsters though... Could drag along the entire cub scout group! H2's are just plain stupid. It's an overgrown Suburban. If you want a Hummer, get the real thing. http://www.humvee.net -JR From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Sun Nov 2 21:09:50 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Getting OT: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: <20031103025008.GE6221@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20031102234629.32464.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> <20031103025008.GE6221@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20031103030950.4EBDF40167@server1.messagingengine.com> Yeah. All you people go talk all the trash you want about the Hummer! You won't be saying that when one filled with a bunch of Marines chases your @$$ down & flattens you out like pizza dough! And that's after they've turned you into Swiss cheese with the topmounted .50 cal machine gun! Just my $2 worth! On 2 Nov 2003 21:50:08 -0500, "R. D. Davis" said: > Quothe Vintage Computer Festival, from writings of Sun, Nov 02, 2003 > at 05:20:54PM -0800: > > > Hummer: Everything That's Wrong With America > > Actually, the desire to own a Hummer, or any SUV, is the result of > un-treated station-wagon envy. Envy of real station wagons, that is, > which are at least 18 feet long and weigh well over two tons, not > those tiny little vehicles that are now sold as station wagons... you > know the kind with fairly large to large V8 engines, body-on-frame > construction, tailgates that open two ways and tailgate windows that > open, which passengers can stick their feet out of while taking long > rides. > > -- > Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other > animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above > Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to > justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Send your email first class From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Nov 2 21:37:51 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial References: <20031102234629.32464.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> <20031103025008.GE6221@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <002401c3a1bb$dc1c8a00$3d7ca418@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Rollins" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 10:04 PM Subject: Re: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial > >Envy of real station wagons, that is, which are at least 18 feet > >long and weigh well over two tons > > Mmm... And the last one my dad had a number of years ago used more > oil than gas. Gotta love those monsters though... Could drag along > the entire cub scout group! > > H2's are just plain stupid. It's an overgrown Suburban. If you want a > Hummer, get the real thing. > http://www.humvee.net > > -JR > H2's are for people who want a hummer but cant afford the original. Do you put down the million BMW 3 series drivers who cant afford a BMW 850? Personally I dont care what people drive or wear as long as I dont have to pay for any of it. From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Nov 2 21:55:53 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: <002401c3a1bb$dc1c8a00$3d7ca418@game> References: <20031102234629.32464.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> <002401c3a1bb$dc1c8a00$3d7ca418@game> Message-ID: <200311022255.53987.jcwren@jcwren.com> I don't care about the moral or ethical dilemmas of driving an H2, but DAMN THOSE THINGS ARE UGLY. Like, ass-end of a baboon ugly. In fact, the AMC Pacer was a work of automotive art, compared to an H2. Possibly the only thing uglier than an H2 is a Camaro, or that car with the big screaming chicken on the hood. --John (Hunting for a Town & Country station wagon to replace his Durango) On Sunday 02 November 2003 22:37 pm, Teo Zenios wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Rollins" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 10:04 PM > Subject: Re: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial > > > >Envy of real station wagons, that is, which are at least 18 feet > > >long and weigh well over two tons > > > > Mmm... And the last one my dad had a number of years ago used more > > oil than gas. Gotta love those monsters though... Could drag along > > the entire cub scout group! > > > > H2's are just plain stupid. It's an overgrown Suburban. If you want a > > Hummer, get the real thing. > > http://www.humvee.net > > > > -JR > > H2's are for people who want a hummer but cant afford the original. Do you > put down the million BMW 3 series drivers who cant afford a BMW 850? > Personally I dont care what people drive or wear as long as I dont have to > pay for any of it. From george at rachors.com Sun Nov 2 21:49:01 2003 From: george at rachors.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: <7d.406ca65c.2cd71891@aol.com> Message-ID: Hmmmm.. All the folks I see in H2's around here are women.... George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Sun, 2 Nov 2003 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/2/2003 9:06:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, > vcf@siconic.com writes: > > > On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > > >>Hummer: Everything That's Wrong With America > > > > > >There are many things that are wrong; not just the Hummer. > > > > I know, but to me, the Hummer represents it all in one nice, tidy, slickly > > commercialized package. > > > > -- > > > > Sellam Ismail > > The H2 is also for men who are trying to make up for their personal > shortcomings IYKWIM. > -- > From jrice54 at charter.net Sun Nov 2 22:04:38 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Passwrd for lost NEXT machine?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA5D3D6.3000803@charter.net> To do so, break the boot process after the 'Testing system' message disappeared by pressing ALT-Comman-Tilde (~). You should get a monitor prompt 'NeXT>'. Now enter 'bsd -s' to boot in single user mode. If the system asks for another *password*, a hardware *password* is set. If you don't know this *password*, you are lost, until you remove the clock battary from the motherboard to clear the boot ROM. Boot in single user (-s at boot time). Then where you are at the shell prompt (#), enter "sh /etc/rc &" to start NetInfo. And then "passwd root" to change root password. James -- >On 2 Nov 2003, Wayne Talbot wrote: > > > >>How do I break into a NEXT machine where I know no passwords, root or >>otherwise? Is it possible to make this machine usable or am I going to >>have to wipe the drives and start over again? Any help is appreciated. >> >> > > > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Nov 2 22:32:01 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: References: <7d.406ca65c.2cd71891@aol.com> Message-ID: <20031103042624.GH6221@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe George Leo Rachor Jr., from writings of Sun, Nov 02, 2003 at 07:49:01PM -0800: > All the folks I see in H2's around here are women.... If they're as ugly as the H2s they're driving, that's really a scary picture. Your posting also leads one to wonder if station wagon envy is more closely related to the p* envy mentioned in psych. textbooks. :-) More seriously, I think that people who purchase H2s are typically suffering from deprivation of an adequate amount of classic computers. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From aek at spies.com Sun Nov 2 23:08:14 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: MDOS (Motorola EXORciser) disk format ? Message-ID: <200311030508.hA358Epc027302@spies.com> the format of the disc can be found in the MDOS user's manual www.bitsavers.org/pdf/motorola/M68MDOS3_MDOS3um_Jun79.pdf From ryan at hack.net Sun Nov 2 23:13:14 2003 From: ryan at hack.net (Ryan K. Brooks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: <002401c3a1bb$dc1c8a00$3d7ca418@game> References: <20031102234629.32464.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> <20031103025008.GE6221@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <002401c3a1bb$dc1c8a00$3d7ca418@game> Message-ID: <3FA5E3EA.80804@hack.net> Teo Zenios wrote: > >H2's are for people who want a hummer but cant afford the original. Do you >put down the million BMW 3 series drivers who cant afford a BMW 850? >Personally I dont care what people drive or wear as long as I dont have to >pay for any of it. > > > What if you end up wearing what they're driving? -Ryan > > > From kd7bcy at teleport.com Sun Nov 2 23:25:34 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: <002401c3a1bb$dc1c8a00$3d7ca418@game> References: <20031102234629.32464.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> <20031103025008.GE6221@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <002401c3a1bb$dc1c8a00$3d7ca418@game> Message-ID: >H2's are for people who want a hummer but cant afford the original. Do you >put down the million BMW 3 series drivers who cant afford a BMW 850? >Personally I dont care what people drive or wear as long as I dont have to >pay for any of it. Nah, I put down anyone in a Beemer less than 20yo... Personally, I'm a VW guy. Can't get enough of those aircooled engines! :-) -JR From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Nov 2 23:31:10 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial References: <20031102234629.32464.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> <20031103025008.GE6221@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <002401c3a1bb$dc1c8a00$3d7ca418@game> <3FA5E3EA.80804@hack.net> Message-ID: <000a01c3a1cb$b0ed7190$3d7ca418@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ryan K. Brooks" To: Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 12:13 AM Subject: Re: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial > > > Teo Zenios wrote: > > > > >H2's are for people who want a hummer but cant afford the original. Do you > >put down the million BMW 3 series drivers who cant afford a BMW 850? > >Personally I dont care what people drive or wear as long as I dont have to > >pay for any of it. > > > > > > > What if you end up wearing what they're driving? > > -Ryan > > > > > Does it really matter if a person hits you at 65mph+ with a hummer, minivan, camarro, pickup truck, etc? Either way your going to be dead or wishing you were if and when you wake up. I got rear ended at a red light waiting to turn by a guy with an old lincoln continental (the kind with metal bumpers and a frame not the newer unibody stuff) doing probably 40mph without even hitting the breaks. neadless to say my ford thunderbird was completely totaled but I was unhurt (but very pissed). A newer vehicle would have had some crumple zones and would have done less damage to my car then that battery ram of a gas guzzler did. Still just about any car hitting my driver door at that speed will pretty much kill me, only difference with a H2 is that it would run over me doing it. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Nov 2 23:48:40 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Getting OT: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: <20031103030950.4EBDF40167@server1.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, David Vohs wrote: > Yeah. All you people go talk all the trash you want about the Hummer! You > won't be saying that when one filled with a bunch of Marines chases your > @$$ down & flattens you out like pizza dough! And that's after they've > turned you into Swiss cheese with the topmounted .50 cal machine gun! Thanks, David. You've just embellished on the point I was trying to make. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Nov 2 23:43:11 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial References: <20031102234629.32464.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> <20031103025008.GE6221@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <002401c3a1bb$dc1c8a00$3d7ca418@game> Message-ID: <3FA5EAEF.3040304@jetnet.ab.ca> John Rollins wrote: > Nah, I put down anyone in a Beemer less than 20yo... > Personally, I'm a VW guy. Can't get enough of those aircooled engines! :-) I'd love to say , "My computer uses more horsepower than your VW, has bigger wheels and a heavier chassis" , but I don't own a classic Computer. I don't think I can find a vintage machine nowdays where I am. It looks like we have gone from dumpster diving to bidding high prices for old junk on ebay. It is too bad most people have missed all the good deals in vintage computers if they want to collect them.Just how will we get the young people into older stuff, be they cars or computers? From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 3 00:02:21 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: <3FA5EAEF.3040304@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, ben franchuk wrote: > It looks like we have gone from dumpster diving to bidding > high prices for old junk on ebay. It is too bad most people have > missed all the good deals in vintage computers if they want to collect > them.Just how will we get the young people into older stuff, be they > cars or computers? Wrong, wrong, wrong. They are still out there. You just have to be more tenacious. I guess it's time to post the Primer again: Finding Vintage Computers - A Primer http://www.vintage.org/content.php?id=001 (And by the way, "primer" is pronouced "pry-mer" and not "primmer" like some idiots who are attempting to subvert the English language.) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From kd7bcy at teleport.com Mon Nov 3 00:05:42 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (Johnny) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial Message-ID: <000801c3a1d0$83deebc0$df9dfea9@net> >>Just how will we get the young people into older stuff, be they cars or computers? Hey, I'm one of them. I'm 23 now, I've been heavy into computers since I was about 14, been going after classics since I was about 17, worked in the computer lab of the local science museum(www.omsi.edu) for a year and a half around that time, got my ham license at 18... And the whole time I've been mostly surrounded by old farts. Rather depressing sometimes. There's a big problem getting younger people into ham radio, too... Hell, getting ANYONE. The old people just get grouchier and rarely teach the others(I'm glad I know a few exceptions to that), then they die and no one knows anything that isn't spelled out to them in 3rd grade(and we all know no one learns anything after that). -JR From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 3 00:29:56 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:46 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: <000801c3a1d0$83deebc0$df9dfea9@net> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Johnny wrote: > Hey, I'm one of them. I'm 23 now, I've been heavy into computers since I > was about 14, been going after classics since I was about 17, worked in > the computer lab of the local science museum(www.omsi.edu) for a year > and a half around that time, got my ham license at 18... And the whole > time I've been mostly surrounded by old farts. Rather depressing > sometimes. There's a big problem getting younger people into ham radio, > too... Hell, getting ANYONE. The old people just get grouchier and > rarely teach the others(I'm glad I know a few exceptions to that), then > they die and no one knows anything that isn't spelled out to them in 3rd > grade(and we all know no one learns anything after that). You've just pointed out one of the biggest problems facing our society. When general knowledge of technology is lost, what then? Are all the high-tech jobs going to be in India and China within 20 years? If so, what will we be doing here in the US, and probably in Europe too? The only people who will still know how all this crap works is the people here on this list. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Nov 3 00:47:57 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: [REALLY OT] Re: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > When general knowledge of technology is lost, what then? Are all the > high-tech jobs going to be in India and China within 20 years? If so, > what will we be doing here in the US, and probably in Europe too? We'll be driving our Hummers around, going from gas station to gas station, and grab a burger while we're at it. Can we go back to puters now? --fred From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Nov 3 01:27:20 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In message Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > You've just pointed out one of the biggest problems facing our society. > When general knowledge of technology is lost, what then? Are all the > high-tech jobs going to be in India and China within 20 years? If so, > what will we be doing here in the US, and probably in Europe too? I know the feeling. ATM I'm at college (studying computer programming, but that's another story). I did mention briefly to someone that I was interested in electronics, specifically as a hobby. His response was "Oh, so you're one of *those* weirdos are you?" (his emphasis, not mine). This same person later joined an amateur radio group - the universe has some strange way of balancing itself out :-) I find it ironic that he picked a hobby that is incredibly closely related to electronics, yet he still seems to consider electronics to be "a whole load of crap". I'd like to see what he'd do without his precious alarm clock, TV or video recorder :-) > The only people who will still know how all this crap works is the people > here on this list. And maybe some of the guys in sci.electronics.repair. Maybe. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, Ethernet (Acorn AEH62), http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 8xCD, framegrabber, Teletext Beware of programmers who carry screwdrivers. From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Mon Nov 3 08:55:42 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... References: <3FA2E627.7D496A84@comcast.net> <3FA51DA5.64E7B931@comcast.net> <20031102160456.GC6221@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3FA66C6E.80B36FEA@comcast.net> "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > Quothe David Woyciesjes, from writings of Sun, Nov 02, 2003 at > 10:07:17AM -0500: > > "Woz" signed IIgs (?) and a Dynabyte computer. According to the guy > > there, it was the first portable? Considering it's about the size of a > > couple mid-tower PCs, it's not really that portable... Either way, both > > are for sale. Give them a call, 203-488-0535. > > If it's built like my Dynabyte 5100, then I wouldn't want to have to > carry it around. :-) Note: the 5100 is not what one would call a > portable computer... it has three separate stackable chasis, each > weighing somewhere around 50lbs. These cases are made of fairly heavy > weight steel and each has its own analog power supply. There's one > case for the CPU, S-100 bus and I/O ports (eight or nine of them, > IIRC), then a separate chasis for the very, very, loud Micropolis 10" > hard drive and another chasis containing two Shugart DSDD floppy > drives. Note that this system runs the MP/M-II operating system. > > -- Yep, that would be the right description... When the guy said 'portable', then I looked at it, he probably meant it as in 'movable'... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Mon Nov 3 08:57:36 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... References: Message-ID: <3FA66CE0.579158AE@comcast.net> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > Anybody looking for these? I was at Computer Recycling & > > Refining in North Branford, CT Friday. Not a bad place. About 2000 > > square feet. And a bunch of stuff. Two interesting things I saw were a > > "Woz" signed IIgs (?) and a Dynabyte computer. According to the guy > > there, it was the first portable? Considering it's about the size of a > > As soon as someone says anything is the "first", in fact as soon as that > word comes out of their mouth, you can tell them they're wrong and be > correct 99.995% of the time. Yep, I knew that. when he first mentioned it, I thought he was going to show me a Compaq, then i saw the Dynabyte... > The only Dynabyte computer I've ever seen is an S-100 machine. Are you > sure it wasn't a Dyanlogic Hyperion? > > http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org/hypn/ > It is a Dynabyte. The previous visual description from R.D. fits it. -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Nov 3 08:59:59 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: list archives Message-ID: <00f801c3a21b$26fae760$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Ok, with the performance problems held at bay for the moment (they are fixed, but there's more I want to do there), I am going to temporarily dig into fixing all the archives, and probably making them searchable. I'm still scouring through the files on the server, but so far it looks like I may be missing huge chunks of the original mbox format messages. Guess that's what happens with drive crashes, drive upgrades, etc. I've got more to look through, but if it comes to that, does anyone happen to have the entire classiccmp archive in mbox format? Thought I'd ask in advance just to see how hard I should try to find it all :) Thanks! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 3 09:22:08 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... In-Reply-To: <3FA66CE0.579158AE@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, David Woyciesjes wrote: > It is a Dynabyte. The previous visual description from R.D. fits > it. Here it is: http://oldcomputers.net/dynabyte.html The one I have has faux wood lamination around the enclosure, instead of the all black color of the one pictured here. This is a fairly rare machine and should be grabbed. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 3 09:29:36 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: list archives In-Reply-To: <00f801c3a21b$26fae760$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Jay West wrote: > Ok, with the performance problems held at bay for the moment (they are > fixed, but there's more I want to do there), I am going to temporarily dig > into fixing all the archives, and probably making them searchable. I'm still > scouring through the files on the server, but so far it looks like I may be > missing huge chunks of the original mbox format messages. Guess that's what > happens with drive crashes, drive upgrades, etc. I've got more to look > through, but if it comes to that, does anyone happen to have the entire > classiccmp archive in mbox format? Thought I'd ask in advance just to see > how hard I should try to find it all :) Bill King used to keep a complete archive of CC on his www.dadaboom.com website, but he took the archives down a while back (for some unknown reason). I'll wager that he still has the archive stored somewhere. As far as I know it was complete from the very first posting by Bill Whitson through about maybe 6-8 months ago. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Nov 3 09:43:51 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Mr Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20031103154351.37287.qmail@web13909.mail.yahoo.com> --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > It is a Dynabyte. The previous visual description > from R.D. fits > > it. > > Here it is: > > http://oldcomputers.net/dynabyte.html > > The one I have has faux wood lamination around the > enclosure, instead of > the all black color of the one pictured here. > > This is a fairly rare machine and should be grabbed. > Looks like a pretty neat machine, I have always wanted an S100 bus computer of some sort. I'm about three hours away, but I don't know if I'll be able to get away. If nobody else can grab it though, I will make the time. A machine like that should be saved. > -- > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || > Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Nov 3 10:07:46 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... In-Reply-To: <3FA66CE0.579158AE@comcast.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of David Woyciesjes > Sent: 03 November 2003 14:58 > To: General@jupiter.easily.co.uk; > Discussion@jupiter.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... > > > > As soon as someone says anything is the "first", in fact as soon as that > > word comes out of their mouth, you can tell them they're wrong and be > > correct 99.995% of the time. > > Yep, I knew that. when he first mentioned it, I thought he > was going to show me a Compaq, then i saw the Dynabyte... The first true portable was the Osborne 1 wasn't it? The Compaq Portable was the first true IBM compatible portable after Compaq spent a million dollars and well over a year creating a BIOS that didn't infringe IBM's copyright..... Next after the Osborne was the Semi-Tech Microelectronics Pied Piper, according to several articles I've read, though that one didn't have an integral screen....you could, however, take it home and plug it into your TV. Can't tell you what the picture's like 'cos none of my machines have modulators :) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Mon Nov 3 10:13:22 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... References: Message-ID: <3FA67EA2.B69D974C@comcast.net> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > It is a Dynabyte. The previous visual description from R.D. fits > > it. > > Here it is: > > http://oldcomputers.net/dynabyte.html > > The one I have has faux wood lamination around the enclosure, instead of > the all black color of the one pictured here. > > This is a fairly rare machine and should be grabbed. > > -- Yep, that's definitely it. I only saw the front of it sitting on shelf. I believe he said there was enough of it for 1 and 1/2 machines. I'd get it, but I don't have expendable cash at the moment. I'm also not sure what he's asking for it. -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Mon Nov 3 10:14:14 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... References: <20031103154351.37287.qmail@web13909.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3FA67ED6.AD337B68@comcast.net> Mr Ian Primus wrote: > > --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > > > It is a Dynabyte. The previous visual description > > from R.D. fits > > > it. > > > > Here it is: > > > > http://oldcomputers.net/dynabyte.html > > > > The one I have has faux wood lamination around the > > enclosure, instead of > > the all black color of the one pictured here. > > > > This is a fairly rare machine and should be grabbed. > > > > Looks like a pretty neat machine, I have always wanted > an S100 bus computer of some sort. I'm about three > hours away, but I don't know if I'll be able to get > away. If nobody else can grab it though, I will make > the time. A machine like that should be saved. > I'll give him a call, and try to find out what he looking to get for it... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Nov 3 10:24:47 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: <3FA5EAEF.3040304@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <20031102234629.32464.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> <20031103025008.GE6221@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <002401c3a1bb$dc1c8a00$3d7ca418@game> <3FA5EAEF.3040304@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20031103161856.GJ6221@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe ben franchuk, from writings of Sun, Nov 02, 2003 at 10:43:11PM -0700: > I don't think I can find a vintage machine nowdays where I am. :-( Aren't there any hamfests in your area? Fewer and fewer older machines, at low prices anyway, like old test equipment, seem to be appearing at hamfests, but one never knows what will turn up. > It looks like we have gone from dumpster diving to bidding > high prices for old junk on ebay. It is too bad most people have > missed all the good deals in vintage computers if they want to collect > them.Just how will we get the young people into older stuff, be they > cars or computers? Excellent question. Older toys are becoming rarer and expensive, and, much of the new equipment sold, be it cars or computers, can't be modified easily, or even legally, like older cars and computers. New computers (and other electronic equipment), with all of the SMD components, are less fun to play with, and more difficult to learn about (circuitry wise, that is---plus, they lack adequate documenation), and newer cars can't be modified like the old ones could due to emissions regulations. It seems like the only solution is to LART many politicians and corporate droids. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From cb at mythtech.net Mon Nov 3 10:19:42 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue Message-ID: Since the archives are down, I can't search for this, but I know its been discussed here before. Can anyone recommend a glue for plastic that doesn't suck. Testor's no longer makes usable plastic model glue. The tube is labeled as "for polystyrene or ABS plastic", but I think scotch tape would hold better than this crap will. SuperGlue (Krazy Glue, whatever the brand on that tube says) doesn't do any better. I've got a plastic push gear I'm trying to glue back together, and so far three different glues haven't done squat! The last one I tried was some brand of a super glue designed to fill gaps and bond most anything to anything... yeah right! As soon as the gear was pushed, it snapped at the glue line again (after letting it dry all weekend). So what's a good plastic glue that I can buy, and where can I get it?!? Damn parental groups worrying about kids glueing their eye lids shut have ruined it for us all! -chris From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Nov 3 12:03:29 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: *********Re: Manual 16c References: <3.0.6.32.20031029090346.00800b10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <006201c3a234$c9cf21e0$f39d9dac@aoldsl.net> are these in the public domain? it seems we should scan them and put them online... ed sharpe archivist for smecc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 7:03 AM Subject: Re: Manual 16c > I'm assuming that you mean for the HP-16C. If so go the the HP Calculator > museum (http://www.hpmuseum.org/) and buy the set of manual CDs. That's the > only place where you're likely to find one other than $$E-Bay$$. > > Joe > > At 04:19 PM 10/21/03 -0400, you wrote: > > > > Hi Brian. > > > > I need the manual of 16C, I seek all place, but can?t find. > > Can you help me? > > > > > From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Nov 3 11:13:40 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: list archives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200311031213.40090.pat@purdueriots.com> On Monday 03 November 2003 10:29, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I'll wager that he still has the archive stored somewhere. As far as I > know it was complete from the very first posting by Bill Whitson through > about maybe 6-8 months ago. Hmmm. Did that Bill Whitson work for Purdue at the time? There's a Bill Whitson who is the manager for ITAP/RCS, who seems like he might have been somewhat inlined towards classic computing... Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Mon Nov 3 11:26:35 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: DEC terminal server 300 References: <20031101171721.CA3261CDA38@mamacass.springsips.com> Message-ID: <3FA68FCB.8090100@Vishay.com> Chris, sorry to chime in unexpectedly. Did you set up the ports used for consoles to allow remote access from the LAN (DEFINE PORT n ACCESS REMOTE, then LOGOUT PORT n)? - I have no experience with reverse Telnet on this device, but this should at least give you a chance to associate port n with a service and then connect to the service (either from another port m on the DECserver, or via SET HOST/LAT from a VAX). This is LAT terminology, but I think the ACCESS REMOTE setting is required for reverse Telnet as well. Alternatively, ACCESS DYNAMIC would allow you to either connect from the VT220 on any other port m to DECserver port n with a console on it, or from VMS' console device (SET HOST/DTE OPA0:) through port n to anything else. ACCESS LOCAL forbids any access from the LAN to the port. Connections can only be initiated from the port itself. This is the default setting. And, if you cannot get it going, throw the DECserver at me! ;-) Regards, Andreas P.S.: Of course, since you have VMS, once you set the port to ACCESS REMOTE or DYNAMIC, you can even create a LATnnnn: device that represents the DECserver port, e.g., in LAT$SYSTARTUP.COM. For this to work, you don't necessarily need to associate a service with the port. Chris Craft wrote: > Fred, or anyone... > I have a DECserver 300 (DSRVF-B) that I wish to use as a console server for > my VAXherd (Many VS3100, a couple of uVAX-II, VS2000). I'm unsure of how to > configure it to be able to serve the consoles over telnet, or even selectable > from one of the other ports to a VT220. I have played with the configuration > for hours, but seem to be missing the magic words. I have no documentation > for the beastie, but can boot it over MOP and get it running, so all I'll > need is an example or a pointer to some documentation. > > Many thanks in advance. > > Met vriendelijke groet/Mit freundlichem Gru?/Kind regards, > Chris --- KI0EW > Incurable VAXherd > -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From marvin at rain.org Mon Nov 3 11:56:45 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue References: Message-ID: <3FA696DD.7062C28F@rain.org> You might try the glue used for plastic plumbing; it seems to do a rather nice job, and should be available at any plumbing or home improvement store. chris wrote: > > Since the archives are down, I can't search for this, but I know its been > discussed here before. > > Can anyone recommend a glue for plastic that doesn't suck. Testor's no > longer makes usable plastic model glue. The tube is labeled as "for > polystyrene or ABS plastic", but I think scotch tape would hold better > than this crap will. > > SuperGlue (Krazy Glue, whatever the brand on that tube says) doesn't do > any better. > > I've got a plastic push gear I'm trying to glue back together, and so far > three different glues haven't done squat! The last one I tried was some > brand of a super glue designed to fill gaps and bond most anything to > anything... yeah right! As soon as the gear was pushed, it snapped at the > glue line again (after letting it dry all weekend). > > So what's a good plastic glue that I can buy, and where can I get it?!? > Damn parental groups worrying about kids glueing their eye lids shut have > ruined it for us all! > > -chris > From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Nov 3 11:56:41 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: DEC terminal server 300 In-Reply-To: <3FA68FCB.8090100@Vishay.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > Chris, > > sorry to chime in unexpectedly. Did you set up the ports used for I have sent him a working config with commentary. Didnt hear back from him yet. --f From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Nov 3 11:44:09 2003 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: Lots of stuff available. In-Reply-To: <004601c39f25$6b6519a0$ec65ead8@d2e2y0> References: <004601c39f25$6b6519a0$ec65ead8@d2e2y0> Message-ID: All, I'll have to make another trip to Electronics Plus in Kerrville, Texas. (See my accompanying email.) About 2 years ago I took a big pile of pictures while I was there, somewhat agog. At one point a kind list-member had them posted on his website, but I can't find my bookmark now. Below is the list of jpegs, which I still have. If you are interested in any of the below, and can get in contact with me before tomorrow afternoon, I'll be happy to email .JPG's or descriptions. I'm behind on reading list traffic,so rather than reply to the list, please contact me at mtapley@swri.edu 210-522-6025 (work) 210-543-9939 (home) 888-733-0967 (page) I intend to leave about 1300 CST (UTC-6), 04-Nov-2003). I'll ask about or try to buy (for pack/n/ship later) whatever people instruct me to, up to the capacity of my station wagon (first come first serve, should it come to that). No guarantees that any of the below are still there, but I suspect most of it is. No affiliation, other than as an extremely satisfied customer. Apologies to any who consider this too commercial - I have no interest in the sales, but Electronics Plus is a commercial operation. Also feel free to contact the proprietor directly if that's preferable.: Cindy Croxton 830-792-3400 830-792-3404 fax ---------------- 3MtransparencyMaker.JPG MacPB180c_Duo280s.JPG ATT3b1UnixPC.JPG MacPBwallwarts.JPG ATTvideoterminalBack.JPG MacPlusSEMon.JPG ATTvideoterminalFront.JPG ManyBooksA.JPG AmetekDisplayBack.JPG ManyBooksB.JPG AmetekDisplayFront.JPG ManyBooksC.JPG AppleIIGSFloppyCD.JPG ManyBooksD.JPG BernoulliBoxes.JPG ManyBooksE.JPG CDC_RackMountDriveBox.JPG ManyBooksF.JPG CelerityCabinet.JPG ManyBooksG.JPG CommodoreSX64.JPG ManyModems.JPG CommodoreSX64KBopen.JPG ManyPowerSupplies.JPG CompaqLuggableExpChas.JPG MemorexDisplay.JPG DECLA7xprinter.JPG MuchSoftwareA.JPG DECMV3100etc.JPG MuchSoftwareB.JPG DECScholarModem.JPG MuchSoftwareC.JPG DEC_MV3600nocards.JPG MuchSoftwareD.JPG DECcabRA82.JPG OkidataPrinter.JPG DECcabTU81Plus.JPG PanasonicSrPartner.JPG DECprintersSCSIbox.JPG PerkinElmerThermPrinter.JPG DELNI.JPG PhilipsVideoViewer.JPG DecDFO3modem.JPG PitneyBowesKbd.JPG DualCDScsiBoxes.JPG RamPageManualDisk.JPG EightInchFloppyDrives.JPG Remington_4banger.JPG FiberOpticHubs.JPG SCOXenix_OS2Warp.JPG FlukeInterfacePod.JPG SWTPC_x12manual.JPG FlukePodBox.JPG SharpCalculator.JPG GridCase1537sBatteries.JPG SunLaser_otherprinters.JPG HPApollo700.JPG SunServerCabinet.JPG HP_CM231_CDroms.JPG TI994a.JPG HardDisksA.JPG TRS80CoCoDiskDrive.JPG HardDisksB.JPG TRS80_software_manuals.JPG HardDisksC.JPG TRWcommModems.JPG HayesModemsDECScholar.JPG Telex287D2printer.JPG IBM6360_8inchFlopDrv.JPG UnisysMuxSentryReader.JPG IBMDisplaywriterKB.JPG UnisysWhatever.JPG IBMconsole8inFloppies.JPG WangBigIron.JPG IntelAboveBoard2.JPG WesternGraphicPlotters.JPG KennedyTapeDrive.JPG XT_IBM_PC.JPG LDplayerLightPen.JPG oldDGmodems.JPG -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Nov 3 11:57:53 2003 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: NeXT monitor problems. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, My NeXT mono monitor (N4000A) quit displaying properly. Symptoms were: 1) Over last 6 mo. or so, on start-up (this is only about 2 start-ups, machine running continuously in between), the middle 30% or so of the display was compressed into a single (bright) scan line. Top and bottom 30% were stretched, so the whole screen was continuous. This problem cleared after running for 1-2 minutes. 2) 4 weeks ago, noticed that (even after the start-up problem) what should have been a uniform grey background looked like it had small light and dark horizontal flecks in it, appearing and disappearing at something like the screen refresh rate. Made the background look grainy and sort of seething. 3) (After I was gone for 3 weeks on travel), monitor now flashes on and off on about a 1 Hz cycle time. A distorted and shrunk version of what should be showing is visible near the center of the monitor during the "on" times. There is a bright horizontal scan line near the middle of the image, when you can see it. 4) On start-up, nothing shows for at least 2 minutes. After around 2 minutes (as I was powering off), image (as in 3) above) started to appear. Have not repeated experiment to see whether it goes back to the 1-Hz cycle or not. Monitor has been running near continuously since I got it, in '96. Is this a known/easily fixable failure mode? Anyone have experience with this? I need the machine running and my record with repairing computers is dismal so I'm looking for (and think I have located) another monitor, but at some point I intend to take a crack at fixing this one. Replies to list if you please, in case this *is* a common problem - I'll catch up as fast as I can. -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Mon Nov 3 11:59:39 2003 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: SCO Open Desktop 1.0.1 stuff available Message-ID: Hello all, I recently got a bad deal on eBay (my fault, not seller's), and ended up with a partial set of SCO's Open Desktop Developer System 1.0.1. The following stuff is available from me, for the cost of shipping alone (and if you wanted to throw in some extra, I won't complain :-), but it's not necessary). Manuals: - Open Desktop Administrator's Guide - paperback, fair condition, binding taped, no writing/highlighting - Open Desktop Development System Developer's guide - paperback, sealed - X Toolkit - sealed 3-ring binder - Motif Programmer's Guide - sealed 3-ring binder - Motif Reference - sealed 3-ring binder - Network Development System - sealed 3-ring binder - X Library - sealed 3-ring binder - Open SQL - used, but in good condition, 3-ring binder, no writing/highlighting Diskettes: - SCO CGI - 2 disks, "Volume 1" and "Volume 2", also labeled "Media: 135dshd", "Type: n286", "Release: 1.1.0e" - Open Desktop ODT-DATA Development System EFS - 2 disks, "Vol: 1" and "Vol: 2", also labeled "Media: 135dshd", "Type: n386", "Release: 1.0" - Open Desktop Development System - 5 disks, Volume 15-20, also labeled "Media: 135dshd", "Type: u386", "Release: 1.0.1" Please send email off-list if interested in any of these items. Include a ZIP code for shipping quotes. If more than one person is interested, I'll pick from a hat to be fair to digest and international list members. Thanks! Rich B. From cb at mythtech.net Mon Nov 3 12:16:28 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue Message-ID: >You might try the glue used for plastic plumbing; it seems to do a >rather nice job, and should be available at any plumbing or home >improvement store. I hadn't thought about that since I assumed it was for PVC only. I happen to have a plumber in right now (relocating a kitchen here at work), so I'll ask him if I can use a quick brushing of his glue. Thanks! -chris From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 3 12:29:29 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Witchy wrote: > The first true portable was the Osborne 1 wasn't it? The Compaq Portable > was the first true IBM compatible portable after Compaq spent a million > dollars and well over a year creating a BIOS that didn't infringe IBM's > copyright..... It depends on how you define the words "first", "true" and "portable". This may seem like ridiculous quibbling but the problem is that you must judge based on a specified set of conditions, otherwise the title is meaningless. As a general statement, no, the Osborne was not. I'd point to the MCM/70 (as I always have, since even before the latest press exposure ;) > Next after the Osborne was the Semi-Tech Microelectronics Pied Piper, > according to several articles I've read, though that one didn't have an > integral screen....you could, however, take it home and plug it into your > TV. Can't tell you what the picture's like 'cos none of my machines have > modulators :) Well then by that definition anything that can be carried is a portable. I have a Pied Piper and it is not what I would consider "intended to be portable" though, yes, it can be ported, as can a PDP 11/45 (with a bit more effort of course). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 3 12:30:13 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... In-Reply-To: <3FA67EA2.B69D974C@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Yep, that's definitely it. I only saw the front of it sitting on shelf. > I believe he said there was enough of it for 1 and 1/2 machines. I'd get > it, but I don't have expendable cash at the moment. I'm also not sure > what he's asking for it. $100 would be reasonable. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 3 12:33:02 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, chris wrote: > Since the archives are down, I can't search for this, but I know its been > discussed here before. > > Can anyone recommend a glue for plastic that doesn't suck. Testor's no > longer makes usable plastic model glue. The tube is labeled as "for > polystyrene or ABS plastic", but I think scotch tape would hold better > than this crap will. > > SuperGlue (Krazy Glue, whatever the brand on that tube says) doesn't do > any better. I had the same problem (and from time to time continue to have the same problem). The suggestions posted were esoteric mainly, in that to obtain some of the glues being proffered was more involved than just going down to the local hardware store. What the hardware stores carry this days is crap for general repairs, not made for delicate repairs on plastic gears. Have you tried going to a hobby shop and asking the proprietor what they would suggest? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 3 12:34:58 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: list archives In-Reply-To: <200311031213.40090.pat@purdueriots.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Monday 03 November 2003 10:29, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I'll wager that he still has the archive stored somewhere. As far as I > > know it was complete from the very first posting by Bill Whitson through > > about maybe 6-8 months ago. > > Hmmm. Did that Bill Whitson work for Purdue at the time? There's a Bill > Whitson who is the manager for ITAP/RCS, who seems like he might have been > somewhat inlined towards classic computing... Nope, he was at the University of Washington. He just up and disappeared several years ago. The last postings I remember from him were when someone broke into his van and stole his stereo and some of his computers (he kept them in his van). It may well be the same guy. Ask him. It would be nice to track down Bill. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 3 12:35:58 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue In-Reply-To: <3FA696DD.7062C28F@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Marvin Johnston wrote: > You might try the glue used for plastic plumbing; it seems to do a > rather nice job, and should be available at any plumbing or home > improvement store. I wouldn't recommend that. PVC glue is ideal for bonding PVC to PVC but might have unexpected results on other materials. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Nov 3 12:41:23 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200311031341.23755.jcwren@jcwren.com> Glues are moderately sensitive to being matched to the material they're being used with. If your gear is actually nylon, virtually no glues will work with it. If it's ABS, you should use ABS solvents/cements. I think PVC and ABS are pretty interchangable, but I'm not an expert at plastics, by any means. As I understand it, there are two types of gluing. Some glues use the porosity of the material, and "bond" by filling in the small voids. A large scale example would be epoxying something to a cinderblock. The glue gets in the voids, and the odd shapes all a structural bond to form. Very smooth materials do not do well with this. Other glues, like for PVC and ABS work by actually dissolving the material, and forming a molecular bond. Materials like nylon to not lend themselves well to this. Some glues, like Superglue, form a third kind of bond. They don't dissolve the materials, nor to they fill the interstitial voids. Superglue is also a very poor structural glue, and not well suited to bonds that are subjected to cross-loading or shear forces. This is just the little bit I know about certain glue characteristics. Bonding materials is a science unto itself, and while I often don't know what glue is appropriate, I've learned the hardway which ones don't (well, except for JBWeld. You can do damn near anything with that stuff). --John On Monday 03 November 2003 11:19 am, chris wrote: > Since the archives are down, I can't search for this, but I know its been > discussed here before. > > Can anyone recommend a glue for plastic that doesn't suck. Testor's no > longer makes usable plastic model glue. The tube is labeled as "for > polystyrene or ABS plastic", but I think scotch tape would hold better > than this crap will. > > SuperGlue (Krazy Glue, whatever the brand on that tube says) doesn't do > any better. > > > I've got a plastic push gear I'm trying to glue back together, and so far > three different glues haven't done squat! The last one I tried was some > brand of a super glue designed to fill gaps and bond most anything to > anything... yeah right! As soon as the gear was pushed, it snapped at the > glue line again (after letting it dry all weekend). > > > So what's a good plastic glue that I can buy, and where can I get it?!? > Damn parental groups worrying about kids glueing their eye lids shut have > ruined it for us all! > > -chris > From cb at mythtech.net Mon Nov 3 12:50:28 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue Message-ID: > Have you tried going to a >hobby shop and asking the proprietor what they would suggest? Yeah, I got two responses... 1: Use Testor's plastic model glue, and if that doesn't hold 2: buy a new gear. Of course, all the hobby shops around here deal with crappy plastic models or slightly less than crappy (one step above Toys R Us) remote control cars. So they don't grasp that some gears aren't available for easy purchase. They are just trying to satisfy the local 13 year old's that whine about wanting a cool RC car and the occasional helicopter. Everything left in my immediate area is just a specialized toy store. And I won't get into what the people at the toy stores tell me to use (the local Toys R Us doesn't even stock plastic model glue... yet they have a row of plastic models... when I asked how you were supposed to assemble them, I was told they all snap together... when I pointed out the box loads of ones that DON'T snap together and need glue, I was told they come with glue... and when I pointed out the boxes that specifically state that it does NOT come with glue... I was told "hold on, I'll go check on that" and the guy ran away from me). -chris From cb at mythtech.net Mon Nov 3 12:55:48 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... Message-ID: >It depends on how you define the words "first", "true" and "portable". >This may seem like ridiculous quibbling but the problem is that you must >judge based on a specified set of conditions, otherwise the title is >meaningless. What would be considered the first "laptop" by today's laptop standards? (ie: can actually sit on your lap, and has a self contained battery power supply, screen, and keyboard). I saw someone the other day try to claim that Apple released the first laptop computer (Mac Portable), but I'm sure it wasn't anywhere near the first (it was released in 1989 IIRC) -chris From allain at panix.com Mon Nov 3 13:02:20 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue References: <200311031341.23755.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <008a01c3a23d$027606a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Implicit in all this is a need for a good way to know one plastic from another. I know some gears are made from that nonmeltable epoxy resin, for example. That probably leaves dozens of other plastic types. How to know? Bendability? Hot needles? John A. From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Nov 3 13:15:46 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >SuperGlue (Krazy Glue, whatever the brand on that tube says) doesn't do >any better. Can you get something called "Zap-A-Gap"? I'm not sure where all you can get it, I know that I used to use it for wargamming miniatures, and it's a lot like "Super Glue", but better. I was able to find it at both gaming places, and I think hardware stores (I think I last found some about 3-4 years ago). The stuff is far better than Testor's ever was. Something else that you can do with Superglue is to use a piece of Kleenex to strengthen the piece in question (unless it's to close of a fit to other stuff). One thing to be sure and do if possible is test any glue on a piece of the same type of material that you don't care about. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 3 13:19:59 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, chris wrote: > What would be considered the first "laptop" by today's laptop standards? > (ie: can actually sit on your lap, and has a self contained battery power > supply, screen, and keyboard). The Epson HX-20 (most likely). > I saw someone the other day try to claim that Apple released the first > laptop computer (Mac Portable), but I'm sure it wasn't anywhere near the > first (it was released in 1989 IIRC) Some people just aren't privvy to the inane facts we computer collectors carry around in our heads. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rhudson at cnonline.net Mon Nov 3 13:19:28 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Monday, November 3, 2003, at 12:55 PM, chris wrote: >> It depends on how you define the words "first", "true" and "portable". >> This may seem like ridiculous quibbling but the problem is that you >> must >> judge based on a specified set of conditions, otherwise the title is >> meaningless. > > What would be considered the first "laptop" by today's laptop > standards? > (ie: can actually sit on your lap, and has a self contained battery > power > supply, screen, and keyboard). Radio Shack Model 100? > > I saw someone the other day try to claim that Apple released the first > laptop computer (Mac Portable), but I'm sure it wasn't anywhere near > the > first (it was released in 1989 IIRC) > > -chris > > > From vance at neurotica.com Mon Nov 3 13:24:10 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: <002401c3a1bb$dc1c8a00$3d7ca418@game> References: <20031102234629.32464.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> <20031103025008.GE6221@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <002401c3a1bb$dc1c8a00$3d7ca418@game> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Teo Zenios wrote: > > >Envy of real station wagons, that is, which are at least 18 feet long > > >and weigh well over two tons > > > > Mmm... And the last one my dad had a number of years ago used more oil > > than gas. Gotta love those monsters though... Could drag along the > > entire cub scout group! > > > > H2's are just plain stupid. It's an overgrown Suburban. If you want a > > Hummer, get the real thing. http://www.humvee.net > > H2's are for people who want a hummer but cant afford the original. Do > you put down the million BMW 3 series drivers who cant afford a BMW 850? > Personally I dont care what people drive or wear as long as I dont have > to pay for any of it. The difference is that the 3-series is a *real* BMW. It's true to BMW's intentions. Can't say the same thing for the H2. Peace... Sridhar From cb at mythtech.net Mon Nov 3 13:32:56 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue Message-ID: >Can you get something called "Zap-A-Gap"? I'm not sure where all you can >get it, I know that I used to use it for wargamming miniatures, I used to live by that stuff for miniatures. It was about the only thing I found that consistantly bonded lead figures with any strength. I'd normally be afriad to admit that in public... but I'm sure I'm not the only geek on this list :-) -chris From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Nov 3 13:39:41 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue Message-ID: <1e2.1297a263.2cd808fd@aol.com> In a message dated 11/3/2003 2:19:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, healyzh@aracnet.com writes: << Can you get something called "Zap-A-Gap"? I'm not sure where all you can get it, I know that I used to use it for wargamming miniatures, and it's a lot like "Super Glue", but better. I was able to find it at both gaming places, and I think hardware stores (I think I last found some about 3-4 years ago). The stuff is far better than Testor's ever was. Something else that you can do with Superglue is to use a piece of Kleenex to strengthen the piece in question (unless it's to close of a fit to other stuff). One thing to be sure and do if possible is test any glue on a piece of the same type of material that you don't care about. Zane >> zap-a-gap is cryanocrylate glue, used for building RC planes. It's a thicker version so it sets up slower and can be used where parts are not a perfect fit. The thin version sets fast, but cannot accomodate cracks in fitment. Hobby shops sell various types including an accelerator spray that will make any cryo glue set and harden immediately. ah, memories of that smell! From tomj at wps.com Mon Nov 3 14:14:30 2003 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1067889909.1382.76.camel@linux.local> On Sun, 2003-11-02 at 09:41, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > <...> According to the guy > > there, it was the first portable? Considering it's about the size of a > > As soon as someone says anything is the "first", in fact as soon as that > word comes out of their mouth, you can tell them they're wrong and be > correct 99.995% of the time. Librascope/General Precision claimed that their LGP-30/LGP-21 computers were portable. The '21 weighs 60? lbs. 1963. Berry's ABC almost-a-computer was built onto a cart. Unfortunately the cart was wider than the door to the room it was built in, so portability was merely theoretical. 1948 or before. From tomj at wps.com Mon Nov 3 14:22:45 2003 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: MDOS (Motorola EXORciser) disk format ? In-Reply-To: <20031102145113.E51344@newshell.lmi.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20031102174231.007eb600@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <20031102145113.E51344@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <1067890410.1381.84.camel@linux.local> On Sun, 2003-11-02 at 14:54, Fred Cisin wrote: > > A friend of mine has a pile (55) 8" floppies which were created > > on a Motorola EXORciser MDOS system. Does anyone know if the data > > on these disks can be recovered on a CPM system or similar, or will > > he need to find an EXORciser? CP/M, since it's so close to the iron anyways, is probably a good way to do a sector dump of the disk. Copy it to a modern machine and post-process the data. Getting the sector data off is the task. If it's hard-sectored, you're probably screwed. (Turn the diskette inside it's sleeve; there should only be one (a pair?) of index holes. If you see 12 or so holes it's hard-sectored. Not many 8" diskettes were hard sectored.) There were two flavors of floppy controller chip in the 70's and 80's, th Western Digital chips and the NEC 765. I always preferred the WD chips (1791? 1793? I forget!) They were the best for diskette hacking. They would read any damn old FM or MFM signal, and you could dump to memory and do the bit extraction in software. Very cool. The NEC765, though nominally easier to do certain things, was a lot less flexible and far more fussy about format. (I used to run my 86DOS 0.86/MSDOS1.25/MSDOS2.00 system on DSDD 8" floppies with 9 1K sectors per track. I thought I was very cool for doing this (cringe)). The short of it is, if you have a CP/M system with a WD controller, you can write nice dumb code to do a 'track dump' if you have enough memory or a sector dump if you don't and see what's electrically on the diskette. I wish I had all my old data. I used to pore over floppy track dumps and could read the MFM header (it's easy) to determine all sorts of stuff. It's not mysterious, just obscure. From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Nov 3 14:38:29 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031103122310.S73657@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Witchy wrote: > The first true portable was the Osborne 1 wasn't it? NO. At the West Coast Computer Faire (produced by Jim Warren), I shared part of my booth with ElCompCo, who mostly made computers for monitoring elevators. They had converted a variety of machines into portables, including TRS-80. They finally came out with their first retail machine, the BMC-80, which was a Z80 based computer with a 5" CRT, with the whole thing mounted into a Halliburton attache case. They set up, and sold off almost their entire first production run (counted in the dozens). Then Adam Osborne came over, shook my hand, drank one of my beers, and said how nice it was. EIGHT HOURS LATER, his people finished building their giant booth, and he held a press conference announcing "the FIRST portable". The Elcompco BMC-80 (and probably LOTS of others) were out and FOR SALE (he was only taking orders) before his was. > The Compaq Portable was > the first true IBM compatible portable after Compaq spent a million dollars > and well over a year creating a BIOS that didn't infringe IBM's > copyright..... Colby preceded Compaq. They made a portable case for clone motherboards, but had supply problems with the motherboards, so ended up discontinuing complete machines and just selling the cases. > Next after the Osborne was the Semi-Tech Microelectronics Pied Piper, LOTS more before them. > according to several articles I've read, though that one didn't have an > integral screen....you could, however, take it home and plug it into your > TV. Can't tell you what the picture's like 'cos none of my machines have > modulators :) well, ... I bolted the cpu and ei of my model one TRS-80 to a piece of plywood, in order to carry it between classrooms that had NTSC overhead monitors (including Evans 10), without disturbing the flaky ei connections - does THAT count? From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Nov 3 14:54:40 2003 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: Lots of stuff available. Message-ID: >Mark Tapley writes: > > Steve, > > ftp seems to be working just fine.... > > > > OK, I think they are all there. Do you see them OK? > >Yup, about 30MB of them. Browsers pointed to this URL: > > ftp://ftp.crash.com/pub/tapley > >will get the list of images and can go from there. Feel free >to point people at it. Confirmed to work by someone off-site. > >--S. And also, Stan Seiler pointed out to the CCtech crowd, At 12:26 -0800 11/3/03, Stan Sieler wrote: >http://www.lzrd.net/ClassicCMP/ > >has the photos, I think. > >-- >Stan Sieler Thanks to both! -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu Mon Nov 3 15:06:49 2003 From: chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu (James M. Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: MDOS (Motorola EXORciser) disk format ? References: <3.0.6.32.20031102174231.007eb600@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><20031102145113.E51344@newshell.lmi.net> <1067890410.1381.84.camel@linux.local> Message-ID: <002c01c3a24e$65ed38a0$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> Hi, Jim here with an on topic question. Since the mention of CP/M, et al, I have been looking for the CP/M-86 original version 1.0 on the 8 inch single density floppy. I have the manuals (reprints/copies). I also have CP/M-86 for the IBM-PC, on 5.25 and 3.5 inch media, However I have yet to find anyone with the 8 inch disk that is the bootable version. This ran on the Intel 86-12 CPU board and had drivers that could be modified for various devices. I have an IDE driver software fix that will let me use IDE drives with my SBC-86/12 system. Any help out there? Thanks Jim WB2FCN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Jennings" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 3:13 PM Subject: Re: MDOS (Motorola EXORciser) disk format ? > On Sun, 2003-11-02 at 14:54, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > A friend of mine has a pile (55) 8" floppies which were created > > > on a Motorola EXORciser MDOS system. Does anyone know if the data > > > on these disks can be recovered on a CPM system or similar, or will > > > he need to find an EXORciser? > > CP/M, since it's so close to the iron anyways, is probably a good way to > do a sector dump of the disk. Copy it to a modern machine and > post-process the data. > > Getting the sector data off is the task. If it's hard-sectored, you're > probably screwed. (Turn the diskette inside it's sleeve; there should > only be one (a pair?) of index holes. If you see 12 or so holes it's > hard-sectored. Not many 8" diskettes were hard sectored.) > > There were two flavors of floppy controller chip in the 70's and 80's, > th Western Digital chips and the NEC 765. I always preferred the WD > chips (1791? 1793? I forget!) They were the best for diskette hacking. > They would read any damn old FM or MFM signal, and you could dump to > memory and do the bit extraction in software. Very cool. The NEC765, > though nominally easier to do certain things, was a lot less flexible > and far more fussy about format. > > (I used to run my 86DOS 0.86/MSDOS1.25/MSDOS2.00 system on DSDD 8" > floppies with 9 1K sectors per track. I thought I was very cool for > doing this (cringe)). > > The short of it is, if you have a CP/M system with a WD controller, you > can write nice dumb code to do a 'track dump' if you have enough memory > or a sector dump if you don't and see what's electrically on the > diskette. > > I wish I had all my old data. I used to pore over floppy track dumps and > could read the MFM header (it's easy) to determine all sorts of stuff. > It's not mysterious, just obscure. > > From chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu Mon Nov 3 15:06:49 2003 From: chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu (James M. Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: MDOS (Motorola EXORciser) disk format ? References: <3.0.6.32.20031102174231.007eb600@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><20031102145113.E51344@newshell.lmi.net> <1067890410.1381.84.camel@linux.local> Message-ID: <002c01c3a24e$65ed38a0$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> Hi, Jim here with an on topic question. Since the mention of CP/M, et al, I have been looking for the CP/M-86 original version 1.0 on the 8 inch single density floppy. I have the manuals (reprints/copies). I also have CP/M-86 for the IBM-PC, on 5.25 and 3.5 inch media, However I have yet to find anyone with the 8 inch disk that is the bootable version. This ran on the Intel 86-12 CPU board and had drivers that could be modified for various devices. I have an IDE driver software fix that will let me use IDE drives with my SBC-86/12 system. Any help out there? Thanks Jim WB2FCN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Jennings" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 3:13 PM Subject: Re: MDOS (Motorola EXORciser) disk format ? > On Sun, 2003-11-02 at 14:54, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > A friend of mine has a pile (55) 8" floppies which were created > > > on a Motorola EXORciser MDOS system. Does anyone know if the data > > > on these disks can be recovered on a CPM system or similar, or will > > > he need to find an EXORciser? > > CP/M, since it's so close to the iron anyways, is probably a good way to > do a sector dump of the disk. Copy it to a modern machine and > post-process the data. > > Getting the sector data off is the task. If it's hard-sectored, you're > probably screwed. (Turn the diskette inside it's sleeve; there should > only be one (a pair?) of index holes. If you see 12 or so holes it's > hard-sectored. Not many 8" diskettes were hard sectored.) > > There were two flavors of floppy controller chip in the 70's and 80's, > th Western Digital chips and the NEC 765. I always preferred the WD > chips (1791? 1793? I forget!) They were the best for diskette hacking. > They would read any damn old FM or MFM signal, and you could dump to > memory and do the bit extraction in software. Very cool. The NEC765, > though nominally easier to do certain things, was a lot less flexible > and far more fussy about format. > > (I used to run my 86DOS 0.86/MSDOS1.25/MSDOS2.00 system on DSDD 8" > floppies with 9 1K sectors per track. I thought I was very cool for > doing this (cringe)). > > The short of it is, if you have a CP/M system with a WD controller, you > can write nice dumb code to do a 'track dump' if you have enough memory > or a sector dump if you don't and see what's electrically on the > diskette. > > I wish I had all my old data. I used to pore over floppy track dumps and > could read the MFM header (it's easy) to determine all sorts of stuff. > It's not mysterious, just obscure. > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Nov 3 15:08:29 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031103130104.M73657@newshell.lmi.net> > >It depends on how you define the words "first", "true" and "portable". > >This may seem like ridiculous quibbling but the problem is that you must > >judge based on a specified set of conditions, otherwise the title is > >meaningless. On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, chris wrote: > What would be considered the first "laptop" by today's laptop standards? > (ie: can actually sit on your lap, and has a self contained battery power > supply, screen, and keyboard). > I saw someone the other day try to claim that Apple released the first > laptop computer (Mac Portable), but I'm sure it wasn't anywhere near the > first (it was released in 1989 IIRC) half a decade before that, you had Laptops: DG1 Gavilan Grid Kaypro 2000? Notebooks: Epson HC20 (about a year later, repainted beige and released with a more limited char generator as the HX-30) Kyocera (RS M100, NEC 8200,8201, Olivetti M20?) Workslate (I know when _I_ owned them, not when they were "FIRST RELEASED", so I won't argue about "FIRST") From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Nov 3 15:13:39 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:47 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031103130942.V73657@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > What would be considered the first "laptop" by today's laptop standards? > > (ie: can actually sit on your lap, and has a self contained battery power > > supply, screen, and keyboard). > The Epson HX-20 (most likely). Unless we are restricting to just Amurican machines, the HC-20. The HX-20 was the later "Americanized" model (deletion of katakana from the char generator and repainted beige (formerly gray)). There were some in the US, at places like HudsonSoft. I had two for quite a while before they released the US model. (Roger has them now.) From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Nov 3 15:15:37 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031103131356.A73657@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > > What would be considered the first "laptop" by today's laptop > > standards? > > (ie: can actually sit on your lap, and has a self contained battery > > power > > supply, screen, and keyboard). > > Radio Shack Model 100? The Epson HC20 and HX-20 preceded the Kyocera made model 100. Which of the Kyocera machines was released first? (Model 100, NEC 8201, Olivetti M20)? From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Mon Nov 3 15:32:13 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... References: <20031103154351.37287.qmail@web13909.mail.yahoo.com> <3FA67ED6.AD337B68@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3FA6C95D.15DD2D2D@comcast.net> David Woyciesjes wrote: > > Mr Ian Primus wrote: > > > > --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > > > > > It is a Dynabyte. The previous visual description > > > from R.D. fits > > > > it. > > > > > > Here it is: > > > > > > http://oldcomputers.net/dynabyte.html > > > > > > The one I have has faux wood lamination around the > > > enclosure, instead of > > > the all black color of the one pictured here. > > > > > > This is a fairly rare machine and should be grabbed. > > > > > > > Looks like a pretty neat machine, I have always wanted > > an S100 bus computer of some sort. I'm about three > > hours away, but I don't know if I'll be able to get > > away. If nobody else can grab it though, I will make > > the time. A machine like that should be saved. > > > > I'll give him a call, and try to find out what he looking to get for > it... > > -- Well, just talked to Hugh (?) and he said there should be 2 complete units, and they're looking to get around $300 each. He also did say that they'd have to pull them out and have a look at them too, so it sounds like he may be up for some negotiating on the price too. I'm just passing along info, only met them once, so of course (insert usual disclaimer here)... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From jbmcb at hotmail.com Mon Nov 3 15:41:05 2003 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial References: <20031102234629.32464.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com><20031103025008.GE6221@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: Actually, the Suburban/Suburban chasis is a pretty heavy duty off-road vehicle. In many smallish countries without a US/Euro/Asian/Dictator budget they are used as military vehicles. They are also commonly used as armored limos, as their chasis is over-engineered and can handle quite a bit of plating. The Hummer, like any car, is a tool and performs a basic function, that being able to go just about anywhere on- or off-road. They are very expensive because they are difficult and expensive to build (the transmission is as large as most car engines) and because the market will support it's price (there really isn't an equivalent vehicle, though Land Rovers and highly customized Wranglers come close) Some guy/gal who buys one just to drive around town is no more or less rediculous than someone running a VAX 6000 to read their E-mail (anyone? :) People drive Hummers 'cause they are big and overpowered and FUN and COOL, if they aren't driving them because they have to (there are spots in the upper peninsula of Michigan where, if you don't have a truck/SUV, you don't drive *anywhere* for most of the winter) Many collect and operate classic computers because, among other reasons, it's cool to run a web server on a peice of hardware that cost $300,000.00 10 years ago in your basement. Cost effective? No. Environmentally friendly? No. Fun? You wouldn't be reading this list if it wasn't. Drive happy! -Jason (Driving his 1992 Sunbird with 170,000 miles on it. Horray for saving inherent energy costs! :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Rollins" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 10:04 PM Subject: Re: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial > >Envy of real station wagons, that is, which are at least 18 feet > >long and weigh well over two tons > > Mmm... And the last one my dad had a number of years ago used more > oil than gas. Gotta love those monsters though... Could drag along > the entire cub scout group! > > H2's are just plain stupid. It's an overgrown Suburban. If you want a > Hummer, get the real thing. > http://www.humvee.net > > -JR From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Nov 3 15:51:31 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Jason McBrien wrote: > support it's price (there really isn't an equivalent vehicle, though Land > Rovers and highly customized Wranglers come close) Some guy/gal who buys one > just to drive around town is no more or less rediculous than someone running > a VAX 6000 to read their E-mail (anyone? :) People drive Hummers 'cause they I have both a Wrangler 4L Custom *and* a bunch of VAXen handling my email. Shitty detail is, that they're not even close to being on the same continent. But we're working on fixin' that :) > reasons, it's cool to run a web server on a peice of hardware that cost > $300,000.00 10 years ago in your basement. Cost effective? No. > Environmentally friendly? No. Fun? You wouldn't be reading this list if it > wasn't. You know what the wierd thing is? Once people get over that ".. but er, what about the performance of that stuff" issue, and see how much fun it is.. they can soon be caught scrounging the various online markets for such machinery... :) > Drive happy! .. and not too fast! --fred (addicted to his Passat (NL) and Malibu (US)) From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Nov 3 16:09:33 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I wrote: > I have both a Wrangler 4L Custom *and* a bunch of VAXen handling my > email. Shitty detail is, that they're not even close to being on > the same continent. But we're working on fixin' that :) Note: those are 3100's and 4100's .. not 6000's :)) --f From kd7bcy at teleport.com Mon Nov 3 16:11:16 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: References: <20031102234629.32464.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com><20031103025008.GE6221@rhiannon.rddavis.or g> Message-ID: >Actually, the Suburban/Suburban chasis is a pretty heavy duty >off-road vehicle. In many smallish countries without a >US/Euro/Asian/Dictator budget they are used as military vehicles. LOL... Look at all the third world countries using Toyota pickups with mounted MG's... How about a new assault weapon ban including 80's Toyota pickups? How many people really NEED anything more than an old Geo Metro? Hey, they get around OK in the city where most vehicles live all their lives. If it snows, don't go out! Why would anyone want to go off-road? All that mud? Ick! Ah well. Jeeps are affordable at least. I want a Rubicon :-) -JR From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Mon Nov 3 16:32:42 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: OKIDATA OL830 Laser Jet Printer - ERROR ENGINE FAN PROBLEM Message-ID: <3FA6D78A.D02394B5@compsys.to> Just a follow-up since hopefully everyone was busy over the weekend and did not see my appeal for HELP!!!! To be more specific: OKIDATA OL830 LED PAGE PRINTER Model No. EN257OHA When the power is applied, after a few seconds the front LED shows: "INITIALIZING" followed a few seconds later by the error message: ERROR ENGINE FAN PROBLEM At that point, the SERVICE LED turns red. Otherwise, everything else looks and sounds normal. I have managed to remove the top plastic portion of the case (two bolts at the front). Of course, when the power is applied in this case, the error is "COVER OPEN". The fan at the back rear on the left is free spinning, but is seems doubtful that is the problem. Had anyone the knowledge as to what might be wrong and how it can be fixed? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- To obtain the original e-mail address, please remove the ten characters which immediately follow the 'at'. If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Nov 3 17:30:23 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: References: <20031102234629.32464.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com><20031103025008.GE6221@rhiannon.rddavis.or g> Message-ID: <20031103152720.M79676@newshell.lmi.net> > >Actually, the Suburban/Suburban chasis is a pretty heavy duty > >off-road vehicle. In many smallish countries without a > >US/Euro/Asian/Dictator budget they are used as military vehicles. On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, John Rollins wrote: > LOL... Look at all the third world countries using Toyota pickups > with mounted MG's... How about a new assault weapon ban including > 80's Toyota pickups? > How many people really NEED anything more than an old Geo Metro? Hey, How heavy a vehicle do you need for a mounted MG? How about using an MG for toting the MG? Maybe the definitive definition for Micro/Mini/Mainframe needs to be written based on what kind of vehicle is needed to transport it. From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Nov 3 17:36:03 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 wi SCSI Message-ID: <18.3777a1b6.2cd84063@aol.com> This weekend picked up a nice score from the State of Oregon. Mainly because I could go pick it up. At that time an unknown configuration. All I knew is that it was a MV3800. Turns out to be a standard MV3, KA655-AA, with a nice CMD SCSI card, a CQD-443/tm. No Drives on either the DSSI or SCSI, TQK70, KFQSA, 2 MS650-BA (32 meg RAM), DESQA, DP-11 single serial and a CXY08-M 8 port mux in a BA213 cabinet. Originally installed in 1990. I don't think it fits into my plans, open to offers or trades. Reply off list to innfosale@aol.com please. Paxton Astoria, OR 97103 From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Nov 3 17:48:21 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 wi SCSI In-Reply-To: <18.3777a1b6.2cd84063@aol.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > Turns out to be a standard MV3, KA655-AA, with a nice CMD SCSI card, a > CQD-443/tm. No Drives on either the DSSI or SCSI, TQK70, KFQSA, 2 MS650-BA (32 meg > RAM), DESQA, DP-11 single serial and a CXY08-M 8 port mux in a BA213 cabinet. > Originally installed in 1990. If you werent all the way in Oregon, I'd take you up on it... dang! --f From mike-cc at msdsite.com Mon Nov 3 17:47:00 2003 From: mike-cc at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: CP/M to DOS conversion programs In-Reply-To: <000601c39d56$e8206010$1e02a8c0@WNYC1145744> Message-ID: <3FA67874.1382.AF0BCFD@localhost> Are there any PC (DOS) programs that can 1) Read a CP/M disk 2) Save the contents, including the boot tracks to a DOS file (or files) 3) Format a CP/M disk 4) Write these files back to the disk, including the boot tracks? I know there are programs that can do this for just the program and data files but what about the boot part of the disk. Seems that info could be saved to a file so that a bootable disk could be restored. What I'm basically looking for is a program that can backup a CP/M disk (including boot records) and later restore them to a CP/M disk that would still be bootable. I have looked at 22Disk but don't see where it can essentially copy and save a bootable CP/M disk. I have heard about SmartDisk and Media Master but don't know if they can handle bootable disks so that they can be backed up and restored to and from a PC (DOS). Anyone know? Thanks, From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Nov 3 19:01:41 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: DUPLICATION of alien formats (was not: CP/M to DOS conversion programs In-Reply-To: <3FA67874.1382.AF0BCFD@localhost> References: <3FA67874.1382.AF0BCFD@localhost> Message-ID: <20031103164818.J85967@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Mike Davis wrote: > Are there any PC (DOS) programs that can > 1) Read a CP/M disk > 2) Save the contents, including the boot tracks to a DOS file (or files) > 3) Format a CP/M disk > 4) Write these files back to the disk, including the boot tracks? > I know there are programs that can do this for just the program and data > files but what about the boot part of the disk. Seems that info could be > saved to a file so that a bootable disk could be restored. What I'm basically > looking for is a program that can backup a CP/M disk (including boot > records) and later restore them to a CP/M disk that would still be bootable. > I have looked at 22Disk but don't see where it can essentially copy and save > a bootable CP/M disk. I have heard about SmartDisk and Media Master but > don't know if they can handle bootable disks so that they can be backed up > and restored to and from a PC (DOS). > Anyone know? yes Most such programs are for the purpose of transferring the contents of a FILE from one disk format to another. SOME also include the capability of duplicating a disk, but often ONLY IF the system tracks use a similar physical format to what is used in the data are (no single density boot tracks, etc.) Instead of looking at file transfer disk format conversion products, there are a few that may be better suited for you. Look at Teledisk. Look at CopyII-PC (and at the "Option Board"), and at the "CatWeasel". Although most commonly used for unauthorized duplication of copy-protected disks, it will duplicate many of the disk formats that are physically possible. Be aware that SOME disk formats, including a few hundred of the CP/M formats, are physically impossible to read/write/duplicate using stock PC hardware. The stock PC hardware can only do MFM with WD style sector headers. Some formats, such as hard-sectored and GCR can NOT be done without other hardware. Some other formats, such as FM ("Single Density") or some invalid headers (such as Kaypro DS), can be done with some FDC's, with some additional software. WHAT CP/M format are you trying to do? -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From CCTalk at catcorner.org Mon Nov 3 19:18:46 2003 From: CCTalk at catcorner.org (Kelly Leavitt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: Western Digital WD1003S-WA4 ISA MFM Cards Message-ID: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B8C1@mail.catcorner.org> 16 bit ISA MFM/Floppy/Serial/Parallel cards. I have about 15 left. Shame to throw them away. Anyone want one or two? I'll send them just for postage. Jumper settings are at: http://www.embeddedlogic.com/TH99/c/U-Z/20298.htm. Shipping is around $5.75 to continental US priority mail. I'll ship parcel post, which is less, but slow and unreliable. Replies off list. I can take postage payment via paypal. Let me know, Kelly From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 3 16:39:59 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue In-Reply-To: References: <3FA696DD.7062C28F@rain.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031103173959.007f6a90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:35 AM 11/3/03 -0800, Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Marvin Johnston wrote: > >> You might try the glue used for plastic plumbing; it seems to do a >> rather nice job, and should be available at any plumbing or home >> improvement store. > >I wouldn't recommend that. PVC glue is ideal for bonding PVC to PVC but >might have unexpected results on other materials. FWIW When I worked on HP calculators I talked to a friend of mine that is a plastics engineer and asked him what was the best kind of glue to use on them. He said that they were made of ABS plastic and to use the PVC cement. Also, there are some VERY good CA adhesives (aka Super Glue). We used them in place of welding to assemble devices used in a lot of military equipment. The problem is that they don't sell the good stuff to civilians. All we get is the watered down S^&T! Joe > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 3 17:00:52 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: HP 64000 Logic Developement System available Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031103180052.007ce570@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I just got off the phone with a woman in Texas that has a HP 64000 LDS that she wants to sell. She says that it has lots of cards and lots of external cables and lots of pods. She doesn't really know what it is and didn't have it right there in front to her so that's the best description she could give at the time. If anyone is interested, you can call her. Cindy Croxton 830-792-3400 830-792-3404 fax Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 3 19:19:50 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: CPM was Re: MDOS (Motorola EXORciser) disk format ? In-Reply-To: <002c01c3a24e$65ed38a0$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> References: <3.0.6.32.20031102174231.007eb600@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <20031102145113.E51344@newshell.lmi.net> <1067890410.1381.84.camel@linux.local> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031103201950.008ec430@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:06 PM 11/3/03 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, >Jim here with an on topic question. Since the mention of CP/M, et al, I have >been >looking for the CP/M-86 original version 1.0 on the 8 inch single density >floppy. I >have the manuals (reprints/copies). I also have CP/M-86 for the IBM-PC, on >5.25 and 3.5 inch media, However I have yet to find anyone with the 8 inch >disk >that is the bootable version. This ran on the Intel 86-12 CPU board THE original CPM run on an Intel MDS-800 system with an 8080 CPU. That was LONG before the Intel 86/12 card came out. Go look at the code in the back of the manual. and had >drivers >that could be modified for various devices. I have an IDE driver software >fix that >will let me use IDE drives with my SBC-86/12 system. Any help out there? I have CPM running on the MDS-800 with 8" drives but IIRC it's ver 2.2. Dave Mabry might have an older version. Joe > >Thanks >Jim >WB2FCN > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tom Jennings" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" >Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 3:13 PM >Subject: Re: MDOS (Motorola EXORciser) disk format ? > > >> On Sun, 2003-11-02 at 14:54, Fred Cisin wrote: >> > > A friend of mine has a pile (55) 8" floppies which were created >> > > on a Motorola EXORciser MDOS system. Does anyone know if the data >> > > on these disks can be recovered on a CPM system or similar, or will >> > > he need to find an EXORciser? >> >> CP/M, since it's so close to the iron anyways, is probably a good way to >> do a sector dump of the disk. Copy it to a modern machine and >> post-process the data. >> >> Getting the sector data off is the task. If it's hard-sectored, you're >> probably screwed. (Turn the diskette inside it's sleeve; there should >> only be one (a pair?) of index holes. If you see 12 or so holes it's >> hard-sectored. Not many 8" diskettes were hard sectored.) >> >> There were two flavors of floppy controller chip in the 70's and 80's, >> th Western Digital chips and the NEC 765. I always preferred the WD >> chips (1791? 1793? I forget!) They were the best for diskette hacking. >> They would read any damn old FM or MFM signal, and you could dump to >> memory and do the bit extraction in software. Very cool. The NEC765, >> though nominally easier to do certain things, was a lot less flexible >> and far more fussy about format. >> >> (I used to run my 86DOS 0.86/MSDOS1.25/MSDOS2.00 system on DSDD 8" >> floppies with 9 1K sectors per track. I thought I was very cool for >> doing this (cringe)). >> >> The short of it is, if you have a CP/M system with a WD controller, you >> can write nice dumb code to do a 'track dump' if you have enough memory >> or a sector dump if you don't and see what's electrically on the >> diskette. >> >> I wish I had all my old data. I used to pore over floppy track dumps and >> could read the MFM header (it's easy) to determine all sorts of stuff. >> It's not mysterious, just obscure. >> >> > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 3 15:49:31 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031103164931.008d5100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> The best plastic glue that I've found is plain old PVC cement like you buy to glue PVC pipe together with. The clear stuff seems to work slightly better than the colored stuff. You can buy it at Home Depot or any hardware store. It cost about $1/ 4 oz can. BUT I've found that once you glue something with a glue that doesn't hold even the right glue won't work. In other words you'd better get it right the first time! Gears are tough, they're usually made of nylon and I don't think any glue will work on it. Joe At 11:19 AM 11/3/03 -0500, you wrote: >Since the archives are down, I can't search for this, but I know its been >discussed here before. > >Can anyone recommend a glue for plastic that doesn't suck. Testor's no >longer makes usable plastic model glue. The tube is labeled as "for >polystyrene or ABS plastic", but I think scotch tape would hold better >than this crap will. > >SuperGlue (Krazy Glue, whatever the brand on that tube says) doesn't do >any better. > > >I've got a plastic push gear I'm trying to glue back together, and so far >three different glues haven't done squat! The last one I tried was some >brand of a super glue designed to fill gaps and bond most anything to >anything... yeah right! As soon as the gear was pushed, it snapped at the >glue line again (after letting it dry all weekend). > > >So what's a good plastic glue that I can buy, and where can I get it?!? >Damn parental groups worrying about kids glueing their eye lids shut have >ruined it for us all! > >-chris > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 3 15:51:46 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: *********Re: Manual 16c In-Reply-To: <006201c3a234$c9cf21e0$f39d9dac@aoldsl.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20031029090346.00800b10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031103165146.00831790@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:03 AM 11/3/03 -0700, you wrote: >are these in the public domain? I don't know if they're exactly public domain but HP has given their permission for peeople to copy them and sell copies and PDF copies. Dave Hicks at the HP Calculator Museum website is selling CDs with copies of the manuals. Joe it seems we should scan them and put them >online... > >ed sharpe archivist for smecc >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe" >To: ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 7:03 AM >Subject: Re: Manual 16c > > >> I'm assuming that you mean for the HP-16C. If so go the the HP >Calculator >> museum (http://www.hpmuseum.org/) and buy the set of manual CDs. That's >the >> only place where you're likely to find one other than $$E-Bay$$. >> >> Joe >> >> At 04:19 PM 10/21/03 -0400, you wrote: >> > >> > Hi Brian. >> > >> > I need the manual of 16C, I seek all place, but can?t find. >> > Can you help me? >> > >> >> >> > > From cukr at massnet1.net Mon Nov 3 19:17:20 2003 From: cukr at massnet1.net (Mike Cukr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: CP/M to DOS conversion programs References: <3FA67874.1382.AF0BCFD@localhost> Message-ID: <001c01c3a271$65a32260$4ce36742@d2e2y0> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Davis" To: Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 6:47 PM Subject: CP/M to DOS conversion programs > Are there any PC (DOS) programs that can > > 1) Read a CP/M disk > 2) Save the contents, including the boot tracks to a DOS file (or files) > 3) Format a CP/M disk > 4) Write these files back to the disk, including the boot tracks? > > I know there are programs that can do this for just the program and data > files but what about the boot part of the disk. Seems that info could be > saved to a file so that a bootable disk could be restored. What I'm basically > looking for is a program that can backup a CP/M disk (including boot > records) and later restore them to a CP/M disk that would still be bootable. > > I have looked at 22Disk but don't see where it can essentially copy and save > a bootable CP/M disk. I have heard about SmartDisk and Media Master but > don't know if they can handle bootable disks so that they can be backed up > and restored to and from a PC (DOS). > > Anyone know? > > Thanks, > > Sounds like what you need is teledisk. It reads the disk in a bitwise process an saves the image as a file that can be used to recreate the original disk. You can get it at ftp://ftp.rainingdata.com/freeware/teledisk.zip All you need is a drive that's compatable with the original disk(s). Good Luck Mike From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Nov 3 19:38:09 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: list archives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200311032038.09252.pat@purdueriots.com> On Monday 03 November 2003 13:34, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > On Monday 03 November 2003 10:29, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > I'll wager that he still has the archive stored somewhere. As far as I > > > know it was complete from the very first posting by Bill Whitson > > > through about maybe 6-8 months ago. > > > > Hmmm. Did that Bill Whitson work for Purdue at the time? There's a Bill > > Whitson who is the manager for ITAP/RCS, who seems like he might have > > been somewhat inlined towards classic computing... > > Nope, he was at the University of Washington. He just up and disappeared > several years ago. The last postings I remember from him were when > someone broke into his van and stole his stereo and some of his computers > (he kept them in his van). > > It may well be the same guy. Ask him. It would be nice to track down > Bill. Well, I bet it's someone different then. The Bill I know has worked for Purdue for at least 10 years, probably much longer than that. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Nov 3 19:49:55 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: References: <20031102234629.32464.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com><20031103025008.GE6221@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20031103174902.O85967@newshell.lmi.net> A significant savings in gas mileage http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2440477101 From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Nov 3 20:00:15 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: CP/M to DOS conversion programs In-Reply-To: <001c01c3a271$65a32260$4ce36742@d2e2y0> References: <3FA67874.1382.AF0BCFD@localhost> <001c01c3a271$65a32260$4ce36742@d2e2y0> Message-ID: <20031103175609.B85967@newshell.lmi.net> > > Are there any PC (DOS) programs that can > > 1) Read a CP/M disk > > 2) Save the contents, including the boot tracks to a DOS file (or files) > > 3) Format a CP/M disk > > 4) Write these files back to the disk, including the boot tracks? On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Mike Cukr wrote: > Sounds like what you need is teledisk. It reads the disk in a bitwise > process an saves the image as a file that can be used to recreate the > original disk. You can get it at > ftp://ftp.rainingdata.com/freeware/teledisk.zip All you need is a drive > that's compatable with the original disk(s). good suggestion but you need a DISK CONTROLLER that is compatible, NOT JUST DRIVE. For example, Amiga (MFM, but without WD sector headers) and some Commodore 64 formats (GCR) can use very "ordinary" disk drives, but their disk controllers are different enough that Teledisk can't go near 'em. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 3 20:10:51 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue In-Reply-To: from "chris" at Nov 3, 3 11:19:42 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1362 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031104/d6a6cbf0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 3 20:14:54 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: NeXT monitor problems. In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Nov 3, 3 11:57:53 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1264 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031104/00569684/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 3 20:03:37 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... In-Reply-To: <3FA66C6E.80B36FEA@comcast.net> from "David Woyciesjes" at Nov 3, 3 09:55:42 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 738 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031104/6c9e20a3/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Nov 3 20:35:18 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031103183100.O87999@newshell.lmi.net> > In which case it's far from being the first movable computer -- the ANY computer that has casters is "portable", and any that can be winched onto a trailer are "movable" When calling it "portable", does that require a Samoan? or how many Somalians? One Japanese computer company, in a picture ad demoing the "portability" of their computer used a well known Sumu wrestler. It may have been PC magazine who pointed out that HE could demo the "portability" of a Suzuki. From cb at mythtech.net Mon Nov 3 20:54:12 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue Message-ID: >> I've got a plastic push gear I'm trying to glue back together, and so far > >Ah... What's it out of? Any chance in getting, or making, a replacement gear? Its actually for a VCR, and an off topic one I might add (its only a few years old). Yes I can probably get a new gear from the manufacturer, but they are a royal PITA when it comes to getting parts unless you have a specific part number. Of course, they don't stamp their parts with the numbers, nor do they offer exploded diagrams that list the part numbers... which leaves one in the nice situation of not being able to order the part because you don't know what they refer to it as! I've had to jump thru serious hoops to get parts from this company in the past, and I figured that glue would be easier then trying to get the replacement part. As it stands, from the sounds of it, glue isn't going to be any easier, so most likely, the whole VCR is going to be disposed of rather than spend any more time on it. (Its for a local animal shelter I support, its a crappy TV/VCR unit that the cats use to watch videos of birds... I'm not willing to spend any more time working on it when I have a VCR and TV I can donate to them instead, and since they are two different units, I can wire up the TV in the cat room, and the VCR in an office down the hall, which will greatly reduce the amount of cat hair and litter dust that gets in the VCR, which was the cause of the failure in the first place. What I REALLY want is to hook them up with a computer running MPEGs of their videos... that should drop the wear and tear factor down to almost nothing as the computer doesn't care if the hard drive spins 24x7 for the next 20 years) However, I'm glad I asked about glues, as this VCR is just what drove me to the point of trying to find a decent glue. I've run into the problem on a number of things in the past, so now I'm a bit more educated in the topic for the next time. -chris From billdeg at degnanco.com Mon Nov 3 20:55:35 2003 From: billdeg at degnanco.com (B.Degnan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: Any suggestions for cleaning yellowed computer parts? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031103215202.00a83df0@mail.degnanco.net> Does anyone have a secret recipe that is *safe* for cleaning yellowed/stained plastic computer parts that were originally white? I have had some success with various cleaning agents, but nothing spectacular. -bill wilmington, delaware From rhudson at cnonline.net Mon Nov 3 21:03:39 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... In-Reply-To: <20031103183100.O87999@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <7D190E07-0E73-11D8-B772-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Hey!!! A new measure of computer size - The Samoan! PDP8 - 2 Samoans IBM Mainframe with 8 DASD = 20 Samoans (enough samoans to lift everything at once) On Monday, November 3, 2003, at 08:35 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: >> In which case it's far from being the first movable computer -- the > > ANY computer that has casters is "portable", and any that can be > winched > onto a trailer are "movable" > > When calling it "portable", does that require a Samoan? > or how many Somalians? > One Japanese computer company, in a picture ad demoing the > "portability" > of their computer used a well known Sumu wrestler. It may have been PC > magazine who pointed out that HE could demo the "portability" of a > Suzuki. > > From mike-cc at msdsite.com Mon Nov 3 21:05:56 2003 From: mike-cc at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: CP/M to DOS conversion programs In-Reply-To: <20031103175609.B85967@newshell.lmi.net> References: <001c01c3a271$65a32260$4ce36742@d2e2y0> Message-ID: <3FA6A714.13912.BA6E2D1@localhost> On 3 Nov 2003 at 18:00, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > Are there any PC (DOS) programs that can > > > 1) Read a CP/M disk > > > 2) Save the contents, including the boot tracks to a DOS file (or files) > > > 3) Format a CP/M disk > > > 4) Write these files back to the disk, including the boot tracks? > On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Mike Cukr wrote: > > Sounds like what you need is teledisk. It reads the disk in a bitwise > > process an saves the image as a file that can be used to recreate the > > original disk. You can get it at > > ftp://ftp.rainingdata.com/freeware/teledisk.zip All you need is a drive > > that's compatable with the original disk(s). > > good suggestion > > but you need a DISK CONTROLLER that is compatible, NOT JUST DRIVE. For > example, Amiga (MFM, but without WD sector headers) and some Commodore 64 > formats (GCR) can use very "ordinary" disk drives, but their disk > controllers are different enough that Teledisk can't go near 'em. > My first need is for an Osborne formatted disc. I know that 22Disk can read these disks on my PC, so I guess it could read the boot tracks also but that is not one of the capabilities of 22Disk. I'll look into TeleDisk and see if that will do the trick. Thanks From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Nov 3 21:19:08 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: CP/M to DOS conversion programs In-Reply-To: <3FA6A714.13912.BA6E2D1@localhost> References: <001c01c3a271$65a32260$4ce36742@d2e2y0> <3FA6A714.13912.BA6E2D1@localhost> Message-ID: <20031103191618.N87999@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Mike Davis wrote: > My first need is for an Osborne formatted disc. I know that 22Disk can read > these disks on my PC, so I guess it could read the boot tracks also but that > is not one of the capabilities of 22Disk. There are two major formats for Osborne disks. (and a few variants) One of them is "double density", with five 1024 byte sectors on each track. The other is single density, with 10 256 byte sectors per track. > I'll look into TeleDisk and see if that will do the trick. The double density one might work. From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Mon Nov 3 23:27:05 2003 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: Fw: Stack of HP9000/300 & 400 series of computers in seattle. U-haul. Message-ID: <20031103.212706.3392.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Don't contact me; contact Mike Begley at the address below if interested . . . . --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Mike Begley" To: Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:01:29 -0800 Subject: Stack of HP9000/300 & 400 series of computers in seattle. U-haul. Message-ID: I have a number of HP9000/300 & 400 series computers available on a U-haul basis in seattle. I don't have an exact count of my stash, but it's somewhere on the order of: 10-15 HP 9000/425 (varying amount of memory, probably 16-64 megs) 2 HP 9000/433 (one with 128 megs, the other with 64) ~3 HP 9000/340 assorted models 1 HP 9000/360 or thereabouts. All or most of these machines are in working order. At least one of the 340s has an external SCSI interface. Take them away. Maybe offer something neat in exchange, if you so choose. I'm going to want the space soon, but I don't want to discard them; I'd rather see them return to use. Email if you are interested. -mike ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 3 21:34:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: Information about a HP 13197 1K WCS for the HP 1000? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031103223400.007f9a40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Picked up this card today. PN 13197-60001. Anyone have any info on it? I TRIED to use Al's new website to check the HP 1000 CE manual. It over ten minutes to load the FIRST page and I couldn't load any more. Has anyone else tried it and are you having problems with it? Joe From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Nov 3 21:45:06 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... In-Reply-To: <3FA6C95D.15DD2D2D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <47E44A02-0E79-11D8-B04B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Monday, November 3, 2003, at 04:32 PM, David Woyciesjes wrote: > David Woyciesjes wrote: >> >> Mr Ian Primus wrote: >>> >>> --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >>>> On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, David Woyciesjes wrote: >>>> >>>>> It is a Dynabyte. The previous visual description >>>> from R.D. fits >>>>> it. >>>> >>>> Here it is: >>>> >>>> http://oldcomputers.net/dynabyte.html >>>> >>>> The one I have has faux wood lamination around the >>>> enclosure, instead of >>>> the all black color of the one pictured here. >>>> >>>> This is a fairly rare machine and should be grabbed. >>>> >>> >>> Looks like a pretty neat machine, I have always wanted >>> an S100 bus computer of some sort. I'm about three >>> hours away, but I don't know if I'll be able to get >>> away. If nobody else can grab it though, I will make >>> the time. A machine like that should be saved. >>> >> >> I'll give him a call, and try to find out what he looking to >> get for >> it... >> >> -- > > Well, just talked to Hugh (?) and he said there should be 2 complete > units, and they're looking to get around $300 each. He also did say > that > they'd have to pull them out and have a look at them too, so it sounds > like he may be up for some negotiating on the price too. > I'm just passing along info, only met them once, so of course (insert > usual disclaimer here)... Hmm, well, it's a little out of my price range, but I hope someone rescues these. I have the space for it here, but spending $300 on a large machine to fill that space probably isn't a great idea right now, as $300 is a lot of money. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Nov 3 21:59:59 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: MDOS (Motorola EXORciser) disk format ? In-Reply-To: <200311030508.hA358Epc027302@spies.com> References: <200311030508.hA358Epc027302@spies.com> Message-ID: <20031103195410.R87999@newshell.lmi.net> On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Al Kossow wrote: > the format of the disc can be found in the MDOS user's manual > www.bitsavers.org/pdf/motorola/M68MDOS3_MDOS3um_Jun79.pdf Thank you! It takes a long time to load, but it's worth it. Chapter 24 confirms that the physical disk format is 3740 or CP/M type (8", 128 bytes per sector, 26 sectors per track), and provides the details of the logical format and directory structure. It should be possible to write the software to handle it on almost machine (including PCs with appropriate hardware) that can handle "standard" 8" CP/M. It mentions a single sided and a double sided, which may provide some trivial complications. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From kdavis at ndx.net Mon Nov 3 22:38:23 2003 From: kdavis at ndx.net (Kirk Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: glue Message-ID: I'd suggest Epoxy. Depending on your application, you can get the good stuff from boating stores. They sell the resin and hardener separately. You can get different types of harder that set quickly or over night if you need to reposition what you are working on. It's excellent for filling gaps, can be sanded, drilled, sawed or painted. If you have something like a cracked panel or faceplate, you can buy some fiberglass cloth and "paint it" with the epoxy and place it on the backside. It will be stronger than the original. http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay? storeId=10001&langId= -1&catalogId=10001&classNum=1&subdeptNum=&storeNum=&productId=28496 Kirk > > Can anyone recommend a glue for plastic that doesn't suck. Testor's no > longer makes usable plastic model glue. The tube is labeled as "for > polystyrene or ABS plastic", but I think scotch tape would hold better > than this crap will. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 3 23:09:03 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... In-Reply-To: <3FA6C95D.15DD2D2D@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Well, just talked to Hugh (?) and he said there should be 2 complete > units, and they're looking to get around $300 each. He also did say that > they'd have to pull them out and have a look at them too, so it sounds > like he may be up for some negotiating on the price too. Rip-off. Don't bother. > I'm just passing along info, only met them once, so of course (insert > usual disclaimer here)... Well, you can educate them and tell them that if they work, come with system software and complete hardware manuals, then $300 is reasonable. Otherwise, pfeh... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 3 23:17:26 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: Raining Control/Interface modules (model 7020-127) Message-ID: I have a mess of Rainin Control/Interface modules. They are basically lab interfaces for controlling "stuff". I have no docs, and not much more idea of what they do beyond this simple description. I imagine they have some relays or optoisolators in them. If you know what they are and want a mess of them, make me an offer (privately please). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 3 23:22:15 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: Information about a HP 13197 1K WCS for the HP 1000? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031103223400.007f9a40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Joe wrote: > Picked up this card today. PN 13197-60001. Anyone have any info on it? I > TRIED to use Al's new website to check the HP 1000 CE manual. It over ten > minutes to load the FIRST page and I couldn't load any more. Has anyone > else tried it and are you having problems with it? 1K Writable Control Store :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From nico at farumdata.dk Tue Nov 4 00:26:25 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: MDOS (Motorola EXORciser) disk format ? References: <3.0.6.32.20031102174231.007eb600@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><20031102145113.E51344@newshell.lmi.net> <1067890410.1381.84.camel@linux.local> Message-ID: <001701c3a29c$935dc5e0$2201a8c0@finans> > On Sun, 2003-11-02 at 14:54, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > A friend of mine has a pile (55) 8" floppies which were created > > > on a Motorola EXORciser MDOS system. Does anyone know if the data > > > on these disks can be recovered on a CPM system or similar, or will > > > he need to find an EXORciser? > If you just need the "user useable" data (no sector headings or whatever) I can probably be of assistance. If the format is known in my software, I can convert to nice clean data, otherwise I can make a "photocopy" of the disks. For more info, look at www.farumdata.dk/enimwin.htm Nico From nico at farumdata.dk Tue Nov 4 00:28:39 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: CP/M to DOS conversion programs References: <3FA67874.1382.AF0BCFD@localhost> Message-ID: <005e01c3a29d$47796890$2201a8c0@finans> > Are there any PC (DOS) programs that can > > 1) Read a CP/M disk > 2) Save the contents, including the boot tracks to a DOS file (or files) > 3) Format a CP/M disk > 4) Write these files back to the disk, including the boot tracks? > Yes, IMWIN. (www.farumdata.dk/enimwin.htm) It will take a photocopy of the disk, and copy the format information (tracks, sectorlength,....) to the new disk. Nico From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Mon Nov 3 23:45:33 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: Any suggestions for cleaning yellowed computer parts? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20031103215202.00a83df0@mail.degnanco.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031103215202.00a83df0@mail.degnanco.net> Message-ID: <20031104054533.4DD9340268@server1.messagingengine.com> I had a similar problem once. You might want to try using SoftScrub with bleach. I used that on a yellowed computer I had once. It didn't get it perfect, but it made it look a little bit better. Then again, I didn't put max effort into it, but still, thought you'd want to know. On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:55:35 -0500, "B.Degnan" said: > Does anyone have a secret recipe that is *safe* for cleaning > yellowed/stained plastic computer parts that were originally white? I > have > had some success with various cleaning agents, but nothing spectacular. > -bill > wilmington, delaware > > -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Mon Nov 3 23:45:54 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: Any suggestions for cleaning yellowed computer parts? Message-ID: <20031104054554.16B0840226@server1.messagingengine.com> I had a similar problem once. You might want to try using SoftScrub with bleach. I used that on a yellowed computer I had once. It didn't get it perfect, but it made it look a little bit better. Then again, I didn't put max effort into it, but still, thought you'd want to know. On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:55:35 -0500, "B.Degnan" said: > Does anyone have a secret recipe that is *safe* for cleaning > yellowed/stained plastic computer parts that were originally white? I > have > had some success with various cleaning agents, but nothing spectacular. > -bill > wilmington, delaware > > -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://www.fastmail.fm - A fast, anti-spam email service. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Nov 4 00:14:44 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: MDOS (Motorola EXORciser) disk format ? In-Reply-To: <001701c3a29c$935dc5e0$2201a8c0@finans> References: <3.0.6.32.20031102174231.007eb600@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><20031102145113.E51344@newshell.lmi.net> <1067890410.1381.84.camel@linux.local> <001701c3a29c$935dc5e0$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: <20031103220220.F90787@newshell.lmi.net> PLEASE BE CAREFUL ABOUT ATTRIBUTION! I DID NOT SAY THAT! I REPLIED to it. I am NOT involved in trying to get data from an MDOS system. If I were, if it were a substantial pile, then I'd simply add that format into XenoCopy. For a pile too small to be worth the effort, I'd use the undocumented "raw" mode in XenoCopy to transfer groups of sectors as needed. Your offer is a good one, but I've always done my own data conversion. I hope that the CORRECT person does get in touch with you. On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Nico de Jong wrote: > > On Sun, 2003-11-02 at 14:54, Fred Cisin wrote: I DID NOT!!!! > > > > A friend of mine has a pile (55) 8" floppies which were created > > > > on a Motorola EXORciser MDOS system. Does anyone know if the data > > > > on these disks can be recovered on a CPM system or similar, or will > > > > he need to find an EXORciser? > > > If you just need the "user useable" data (no sector headings or whatever) I > can probably be of assistance. If the format is known in my software, I can > convert to nice clean data, otherwise I can make a "photocopy" of the disks. > For more info, look at www.farumdata.dk/enimwin.htm > > Nico From fernande at internet1.net Tue Nov 4 00:19:13 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:48 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue In-Reply-To: <200311031341.23755.jcwren@jcwren.com> References: <200311031341.23755.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <3FA744E1.3060200@internet1.net> I used JB Weld on my IBM PS/2 Model 80 case. It has a post with a threaded insert in the end, for mounting the power supply. The thing snapped off at some point and I used JB Weld to fix it. I was a bit concerned that it wouldn't hold because it's tall and will be exposed to some shear forces. It's held fine so far. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA J.C. Wren wrote: > I've learned the hardway which ones don't (well, except > for JBWeld. You can do damn near anything with that stuff). > > --John From fernande at internet1.net Tue Nov 4 00:29:54 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA74762.2020303@internet1.net> Please tell me that you are kidding!!! Cats don't need a TV and VCR!! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA chris wrote: > its a crappy TV/VCR unit that the cats use to watch videos of > birds... From fernande at internet1.net Tue Nov 4 00:39:30 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: References: <20031102234629.32464.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> <20031103025008.GE6221@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <002401c3a1bb$dc1c8a00$3d7ca418@game> Message-ID: <3FA749A2.8060309@internet1.net> That's not correct according to what I've read. The H2 is actually quite capable off-road. Notice it's very short overhangs, factory available rock sliders, etc. One article even commented that it had some advantages over the original. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA vance@neurotica.com wrote: > The difference is that the 3-series is a *real* BMW. It's true to BMW's > intentions. Can't say the same thing for the H2. > > Peace... Sridhar From vcf at siconic.com Tue Nov 4 02:21:56 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Apple //c in Inverness, Florida, needs new home Message-ID: See below. Please reply to original sender. Reply-to: Manley Thompson ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 21:10:43 -0500 From: Manley Thompson To: Vintage Computer Festival Subject: Re: your mail Thanks for the prompt reply. I'm located in Inverness, Florida; phone # (352) 341-1141 > [Original Message] > From: Vintage Computer Festival > To: Manley Thompson > Date: 11/1/2003 10:10:18 PM > Subject: Re: your mail > > On Sat, 1 Nov 2003, Manley Thompson wrote: > > > I have an Apple IIc with the monitor and stand, external disk drive, > > manuals,=A0and software. I also have an Imagewriter II. You're welcome to > > any or all if you have need for them.=A0 Otherwise, I'll give them to a > > local college. Just let me know. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Nov 4 02:32:56 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue In-Reply-To: <3FA74762.2020303@internet1.net> References: <3FA74762.2020303@internet1.net> Message-ID: >Please tell me that you are kidding!!! Cats don't need a TV and VCR!! Try telling a cat that! Personally I think it sounds like a pretty cool use for an old TV and VCR! Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Nov 4 03:32:32 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > It depends on how you define the words "first", "true" and "portable". > This may seem like ridiculous quibbling but the problem is that you must > judge based on a specified set of conditions, otherwise the title is > meaningless. In this case it was supposed to be the first machine your secretary could carry round with her to do minutes of meetings using 'standard' (that word again) applications like wordstar wasn't it? :) I'm sure that's what featured in osborne ads. > As a general statement, no, the Osborne was not. I'd point to the MCM/70 > (as I always have, since even before the latest press exposure ;) I only found out about those last week on here, soooooo.....time to update my website! > Well then by that definition anything that can be carried is a portable. > I have a Pied Piper and it is not what I would consider "intended to be > portable" though, yes, it can be ported, as can a PDP 11/45 (with a bit > more effort of course). It's all marketing innit. I can only report on the mag articles and adverts I've got and the results of google searches. Real research needs more meatspace input and that's where you guys come in :) It's like Dilbert says - 'hey, if I could lie I'd be in marketing!' cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From frustum at pacbell.net Tue Nov 4 04:03:35 2003 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Sol-20 website update Message-ID: <3FA77977.6060805@pacbell.net> It has been about 11 months since the last update, but my Sol-20 site now has a ton of BASIC programs read to run on the two different dialects of PT BASIC. A gentleman by the name Ralph Hopkins sent me >500 files that he extracted from disks he had from the days of old. About 400 of them were BASIC programs. The only hitch was that he wasn't sure which programs ran or not, and in fact, which were even for the Sol. Complicating it was that Processor Tech. had two different dialects of BASIC of their own (BASIC/5 and Extended Cassette BASIC). I tried running all 400 programs and pulled the weeds (about 1/3 of them). Like a lot of BASIC programs of the era, the vast majority are turds, but there are certainly more than a few gems in the mix. The results of this effort are these two new web pages: http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/bs5_pgms.html http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/ecb_pgms.html The front door to the Sol website is, as always: http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/sol.html About 100 of the programs that Ralph submitted to me are various machine language programs and ASM. I have already gone through a lot of them, but the difficulty is in making sense of it all and organizing it in some fashion. A typical problem is that assembling the source code doesn't match the supplied binary. Eventually I'll sort it out and most of it will make it online. And Bob Stek, if you happen to read this, yes, I still have your PTDOS disks, and I haven't forgotten them. I haven't made a lot of headway on getting a helios system running, so I went and bought a catweasel card and hope to scrape the bits off the disks one way or another. That is the next project in my queue. From esharpe at uswest.net Tue Nov 4 04:11:34 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: *********Re: Manual 16c References: <3.0.6.32.20031029090346.00800b10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031103165146.00831790@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000b01c3a2bc$125b4ab0$0100a8c0@SONYDIGITALED> well the CD I would imagine is nice but for the kid that finds the calc at a garage sale and just wants to play I doubt he would want to buy the cd... I still think there is a place for the downloadable version! ed sharpe archivist for smecc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: "Ed Sharpe" ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 2:51 PM Subject: Re: *********Re: Manual 16c > At 11:03 AM 11/3/03 -0700, you wrote: > >are these in the public domain? > > I don't know if they're exactly public domain but HP has given their > permission for peeople to copy them and sell copies and PDF copies. Dave > Hicks at the HP Calculator Museum website is selling CDs with copies of the > manuals. > > Joe > > > it seems we should scan them and put them > >online... > > > >ed sharpe archivist for smecc > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Joe" > >To: ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > >Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 7:03 AM > >Subject: Re: Manual 16c > > > > > >> I'm assuming that you mean for the HP-16C. If so go the the HP > >Calculator > >> museum (http://www.hpmuseum.org/) and buy the set of manual CDs. That's > >the > >> only place where you're likely to find one other than $$E-Bay$$. > >> > >> Joe > >> > >> At 04:19 PM 10/21/03 -0400, you wrote: > >> > > >> > Hi Brian. > >> > > >> > I need the manual of 16C, I seek all place, but can?t find. > >> > Can you help me? > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > From sloboyko at yahoo.com Tue Nov 4 08:23:41 2003 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Any suggestions for cleaning yellowed computer parts? Message-ID: <20031104142341.88694.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com> I've had good luck buffing double-shot molded keytops back down to the original color and finish while removing a minimum amount of material. IMHO, this type of yellowing and chalkiness is not at the surface, but it must be from exposure of the plastic to ozone, UV light (flourescents?) or possibly smoke. I use metal polishing compound and a buffing wheel, then finish off with car rubbing compound. This process is tedious, but makes an _enormous_ difference in the appearance of equipment. Note, I mentioned "double shot molded"; obviously, pad printed keys (virtually every cheap keyboard made afrer 1985 is made with pad printing) is just going to come off. You need to look at the key from the bottom in order to determine this for certain. ===== -Steve Loboyko Incredible wisdom actually found in a commerical fortune cookie: "When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day." Website: http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From cb at mythtech.net Tue Nov 4 08:36:31 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue Message-ID: >Please tell me that you are kidding!!! Cats don't need a TV and VCR!! Nope not kidding in the least. And trust me, when you have a room of 30 cats of assorted ages, they most definitly DO watch the TV to pass time. Companies even make videos specifically for the purpose. They are of birds or other animals that a cat would normally chase. Its not as if they are watching Matlock reruns or anything. These are videos of small animals flying or running around the screen. Basically, its a video version of pulling a cat toy around on a string. Lots of movement and sound, zero plot. -chris From chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu Tue Nov 4 09:02:44 2003 From: chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu (James M. Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: CPM was Re: MDOS (Motorola EXORciser) disk format ? References: <3.0.6.32.20031102174231.007eb600@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><20031102145113.E51344@newshell.lmi.net><1067890410.1381.84.camel@linux.local> <3.0.6.32.20031103201950.008ec430@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <006901c3a2e4$b3a9d1c0$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> Ah Joe, I asked about CP/M-86 not just CP/M! I also have an MDS-800 and a Series II that run CP/M-80. They also run ISIS and RMX, no matter. What I am looking for is an original CP/M-86 Boot disk as per the manual that works with the Intel SBC 86/12. The newer copy of CP/M-86 for the IBM PC, at least the copy I have is in 5.25 format for the "PC" and has the drivers already loaded on the disk for that system. However the original CP/M-86 was also developed for and ran on the SBC-86/12 so states the manual and That is what I am looking for! Thanks Jim WB2FCN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 8:19 PM Subject: CPM was Re: MDOS (Motorola EXORciser) disk format ? > At 04:06 PM 11/3/03 -0500, you wrote: > >Hi, > >Jim here with an on topic question. Since the mention of CP/M, et al, I have > >been > >looking for the CP/M-86 original version 1.0 on the 8 inch single density > >floppy. I > >have the manuals (reprints/copies). I also have CP/M-86 for the IBM-PC, on > >5.25 and 3.5 inch media, However I have yet to find anyone with the 8 inch > >disk > >that is the bootable version. This ran on the Intel 86-12 CPU board > > THE original CPM run on an Intel MDS-800 system with an 8080 CPU. That > was LONG before the Intel 86/12 card came out. Go look at the code in the > back of the manual. > > > and had > >drivers > >that could be modified for various devices. I have an IDE driver software > >fix that > >will let me use IDE drives with my SBC-86/12 system. Any help out there? > > I have CPM running on the MDS-800 with 8" drives but IIRC it's ver 2.2. > Dave Mabry might have an older version. > > Joe > > > > >Thanks > >Jim > >WB2FCN > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Tom Jennings" > >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" > >Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 3:13 PM > >Subject: Re: MDOS (Motorola EXORciser) disk format ? > > > > > >> On Sun, 2003-11-02 at 14:54, Fred Cisin wrote: > >> > > A friend of mine has a pile (55) 8" floppies which were created > >> > > on a Motorola EXORciser MDOS system. Does anyone know if the data > >> > > on these disks can be recovered on a CPM system or similar, or will > >> > > he need to find an EXORciser? > >> > >> CP/M, since it's so close to the iron anyways, is probably a good way to > >> do a sector dump of the disk. Copy it to a modern machine and > >> post-process the data. > >> > >> Getting the sector data off is the task. If it's hard-sectored, you're > >> probably screwed. (Turn the diskette inside it's sleeve; there should > >> only be one (a pair?) of index holes. If you see 12 or so holes it's > >> hard-sectored. Not many 8" diskettes were hard sectored.) > >> > >> There were two flavors of floppy controller chip in the 70's and 80's, > >> th Western Digital chips and the NEC 765. I always preferred the WD > >> chips (1791? 1793? I forget!) They were the best for diskette hacking. > >> They would read any damn old FM or MFM signal, and you could dump to > >> memory and do the bit extraction in software. Very cool. The NEC765, > >> though nominally easier to do certain things, was a lot less flexible > >> and far more fussy about format. > >> > >> (I used to run my 86DOS 0.86/MSDOS1.25/MSDOS2.00 system on DSDD 8" > >> floppies with 9 1K sectors per track. I thought I was very cool for > >> doing this (cringe)). > >> > >> The short of it is, if you have a CP/M system with a WD controller, you > >> can write nice dumb code to do a 'track dump' if you have enough memory > >> or a sector dump if you don't and see what's electrically on the > >> diskette. > >> > >> I wish I had all my old data. I used to pore over floppy track dumps and > >> could read the MFM header (it's easy) to determine all sorts of stuff. > >> It's not mysterious, just obscure. > >> > >> > > > > > > From fernande at internet1.net Tue Nov 4 09:47:39 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA7CA1B.80701@internet1.net> Wow, my cats have never paid any attention to the TV even with animal shows on. They won't look in the mirror either. It's like they know it doesn't apply to them or something. Maybe because they can't smell it as being an animal. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA chris wrote: > Nope not kidding in the least. > > And trust me, when you have a room of 30 cats of assorted ages, they most > definitly DO watch the TV to pass time. Companies even make videos > specifically for the purpose. They are of birds or other animals that a > cat would normally chase. > > Its not as if they are watching Matlock reruns or anything. These are > videos of small animals flying or running around the screen. Basically, > its a video version of pulling a cat toy around on a string. Lots of > movement and sound, zero plot. > > -chris > > > > From nerdware at ctgonline.org Tue Nov 4 09:49:47 2003 From: nerdware at ctgonline.org (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Test. This is only a test. Message-ID: <3FA7763B.11453.46E5CF@localhost> Wanna check if I'm getting through yet, and latency. Nothing to see here. Please move along.... Paul Braun Cygnus Productions nerdware@ctgonline.org "If you can make it all the way through Warren Zevon's 'The Wind' without crying, you have no soul. "At Microsoft, Quality is Job, oh, I dunno, maybe 6 or 7?" From cb at mythtech.net Tue Nov 4 09:56:45 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue Message-ID: >Wow, my cats have never paid any attention to the TV even with animal >shows on. They won't look in the mirror either. It's like they know it >doesn't apply to them or something. Maybe because they can't smell it >as being an animal. One of mine has never paid attention to those things either. My other cat watches TV all the time. I know it is just the movement that catches his attention. He loves car chase scenes. He also used to be bothered by mirrors, but he's gotten used to them and ignores them now. -chris From mike-cc at msdsite.com Tue Nov 4 10:14:36 2003 From: mike-cc at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: CP/M to DOS conversion programs In-Reply-To: <20031103191618.N87999@newshell.lmi.net> References: <3FA6A714.13912.BA6E2D1@localhost> Message-ID: <3FA75FEC.18451.E790BC9@localhost> On 3 Nov 2003 at 19:19, Fred Cisin wrote: > On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Mike Davis wrote: > > My first need is for an Osborne formatted disc. I know that 22Disk can read > > these disks on my PC, so I guess it could read the boot tracks also but that > > is not one of the capabilities of 22Disk. > > There are two major formats for Osborne disks. (and a few variants) > One of them is "double density", with five 1024 byte sectors on each > track. > The other is single density, with 10 256 byte sectors per track. > > > I'll look into TeleDisk and see if that will do the trick. > The double density one might work. > TeleDisk looks like it is going to be too difficult to use. Not sure if it will even work. It looks like it is for making copies from disks created on the same platform that the program runs on. That is what I'm after. I have tried 22Disk. I can take a CP/M disk created on an Osborne and read and save files to a DOS file. I can format a CP/M disk for the Osborne and copy files back to the CP/M disk. So, it looks like it's easy to read CP/M disks on a PC without any special hardware. The only thing missing, that I need is the ability to save the boot record to a file and restore it to the boot track. Seems like that is something that everyone that wants such a conversion program, would need. But I can't find such a program. From vcf at siconic.com Tue Nov 4 10:27:15 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, chris wrote: > Its not as if they are watching Matlock reruns or anything. These are > videos of small animals flying or running around the screen. Basically, > its a video version of pulling a cat toy around on a string. Lots of > movement and sound, zero plot. So in other words, "cat porn". -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Nov 4 10:41:30 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: CP/M to DOS conversion programs In-Reply-To: <3FA75FEC.18451.E790BC9@localhost> References: <3FA6A714.13912.BA6E2D1@localhost> <3FA75FEC.18451.E790BC9@localhost> Message-ID: <200311040841300361.17FEA257@192.168.42.129> Hi, Mike, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 04-Nov-03 at 08:14 Mike Davis wrote: > The only thing missing, that I need is the ability to save the boot record to a file > and restore it to the boot track. Suggestion: Hex Workshop can open a PC's floppy drive as a physical object. That being the case, and assuming the boot record is not enormous, I wonder if you could simply reproduce such a thing manually, through direct edit of the disk's tracks? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green, aka Steve Smith) From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Nov 4 10:48:23 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Cats References: Message-ID: <3FA7D857.2050201@jetnet.ab.ca> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, chris wrote: > > >>Its not as if they are watching Matlock reruns or anything. These are >>videos of small animals flying or running around the screen. Basically, >>its a video version of pulling a cat toy around on a string. Lots of >>movement and sound, zero plot. > > > So in other words, "cat porn". > NO! Nude Cat girl ,Errr Nevermind. It don't even have to look real,since the screen saver on my DVD player is a glass ball constantly moving around the screen, my cat often stares at it for few minutes and then walks away. Many years ago there was a nature program on TV with birds chirping and the cat was trying to catch the bird with his paw on the screen. Still the best cat toy is laser light pointer, they all love to go after that spot of light. Ben. PS I think most cats don't watch tv because of the loud noise from most tv shows. From kd7bcy at teleport.com Tue Nov 4 11:10:08 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue In-Reply-To: <3FA74762.2020303@internet1.net> References: <3FA74762.2020303@internet1.net> Message-ID: >Please tell me that you are kidding!!! Cats don't need a TV and VCR!! Actually there was a story on the news a few weeks ago saying that only "slow" cats like TV. They process information faster so a normal cat doesn't see anything on the TV but a bunch of streaky lines - the refresh rate is too slow for them. Imagine how hard it would be for US to watch TV if it was closer to 10fps instead of an interlaced 30! They just watch the scan lines going back and forth. Slow cats, on the other hand, love them and are usually seen chasing things across the screen. I've had my cat chase the mouse cursor across the screen on the computer, but only when it's set to the highest refresh setting. -JR From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Nov 4 11:39:38 2003 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue Message-ID: <200311041739.JAA04004@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Chris The biggest problem with these small nylon gears is that nothing sticks well to nylon. When you push it back on the shaft, it will break most any bond. What I recommend is that you core out the center of the gear so that is just slides onto the shaft without and tension. You make sure the inner surface is a little rough. Use JB Weld to glue it on. Don't over drill the center or you won't be able to get a good centering. Make sure things are clean and that gravity doesn't allow the JB Weld to run into the bearing while setting. Use a good cleaner, like brake clean ( automotive product ). Dwight >From: chris > >>> I've got a plastic push gear I'm trying to glue back together, and so far >> >>Ah... What's it out of? Any chance in getting, or making, a replacement gear? > >Its actually for a VCR, and an off topic one I might add (its only a few >years old). Yes I can probably get a new gear from the manufacturer, but >they are a royal PITA when it comes to getting parts unless you have a >specific part number. Of course, they don't stamp their parts with the >numbers, nor do they offer exploded diagrams that list the part >numbers... which leaves one in the nice situation of not being able to >order the part because you don't know what they refer to it as! > >I've had to jump thru serious hoops to get parts from this company in the >past, and I figured that glue would be easier then trying to get the >replacement part. As it stands, from the sounds of it, glue isn't going >to be any easier, so most likely, the whole VCR is going to be disposed >of rather than spend any more time on it. (Its for a local animal shelter >I support, its a crappy TV/VCR unit that the cats use to watch videos of >birds... I'm not willing to spend any more time working on it when I have >a VCR and TV I can donate to them instead, and since they are two >different units, I can wire up the TV in the cat room, and the VCR in an >office down the hall, which will greatly reduce the amount of cat hair >and litter dust that gets in the VCR, which was the cause of the failure >in the first place. What I REALLY want is to hook them up with a computer >running MPEGs of their videos... that should drop the wear and tear >factor down to almost nothing as the computer doesn't care if the hard >drive spins 24x7 for the next 20 years) > >However, I'm glad I asked about glues, as this VCR is just what drove me >to the point of trying to find a decent glue. I've run into the problem >on a number of things in the past, so now I'm a bit more educated in the >topic for the next time. > >-chris > > > From vcf at siconic.com Tue Nov 4 11:53:45 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Cats In-Reply-To: <3FA7D857.2050201@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, ben franchuk wrote: > Still the best cat toy is laser light pointer, they all love to go > after that spot of light. I've have had an incredible amount of fun with a laser pointer and a cat. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From tomj at wps.com Tue Nov 4 12:15:42 2003 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Any suggestions for cleaning yellowed computer parts? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20031103215202.00a83df0@mail.degnanco.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031103215202.00a83df0@mail.degnanco.net> Message-ID: <1067969189.8651.2.camel@linux.local> On Mon, 2003-11-03 at 18:55, B.Degnan wrote: > Does anyone have a secret recipe that is *safe* for cleaning > yellowed/stained plastic computer parts that were originally white? I have > had some success with various cleaning agents, but nothing spectacular. I think there's been a chemical change in the plastic near the surface, and it can't be cleaned, in many cases. However in the automotive world there are plastic dyes that work amazingly well. I can't recall the brands, but there's a cheap one that's not suitable for high-quality auto work, but would likely be fine for computers (eg. you don't leave them in the sun to bake, temp. extremes, etc). They can be used to do fantastically subtle color matching, far beyond the needs of computer case refab. They're not that much money. Ask at a decent automotive paint store (yellow pages in the US). From cb at mythtech.net Tue Nov 4 12:08:12 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Cats Message-ID: >> Still the best cat toy is laser light pointer, they all love to go >> after that spot of light. > >I've have had an incredible amount of fun with a laser pointer and a cat. I thought my wife killed one of my cats with one once. The cat was so in need of catching the little red dot that it didn't realize it was exhausted, until it just fell over panting and stayed on its side for the next 20 minutes trying to catch its breath. Ever since then, we limit the laser pointer time to 5 minutes at a shot. -chris From cb at mythtech.net Tue Nov 4 12:19:50 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue Message-ID: > The biggest problem with these small nylon gears is that >nothing sticks well to nylon. When you push it back on the shaft, it >will break most any bond. > What I recommend is that you core out the center of the gear so >that is just slides onto the shaft without and tension. You make >sure the inner surface is a little rough. Use JB Weld to glue it >on. Don't over drill the center or you won't be able to get a >good centering. Make sure things are clean and that gravity doesn't >allow the JB Weld to run into the bearing while setting. Use a >good cleaner, like brake clean ( automotive product ). I can't do that because it isn't a round shafted gear. Its a straight gear notched stick that is pulled from another gear. The stick in turn pushes or pulls other actuators in sequence. As a result, there is a HUGE amount of binding tension on the stick, and no glue I have tried yet as survived even the first use. I'm thinking of other solutions like JBWeld or some other high strength option and just coat the broken point with it. The hope is that it won't so much glue the break, as simply create a splint around it to hold the broken section in place. Or, just chuck the whole dang thing in the trash and start over (which is the easiest solution, and I know in my head that I should do that... but I'm sure all of you can relate to the obsessive need to fix something rather than throw it away) -chris From kth at srv.net Tue Nov 4 11:35:39 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Any suggestions for cleaning yellowed computer parts? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20031103215202.00a83df0@mail.degnanco.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20031103215202.00a83df0@mail.degnanco.net> Message-ID: <3FA7E36B.9060407@srv.net> B.Degnan wrote: > Does anyone have a secret recipe that is *safe* for cleaning > yellowed/stained plastic computer parts that were originally white? I > have had some success with various cleaning agents, but nothing > spectacular. > -bill > wilmington, delaware > You aren't going to get it back all the way to the original whiteness, and it depends on if it is more yellowed from "smoking" or age, but spraying on 409 and letting it soak for a while before wiping it off can greatly improve the color. It takes several repeats: keep doing it until the yellow stops running. From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Nov 4 12:48:35 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Its not as if they are watching Matlock reruns or anything. These are > > videos of small animals flying or running around the screen. Basically, > > its a video version of pulling a cat toy around on a string. Lots of > > movement and sound, zero plot. > > So in other words, "cat porn". > ITYM "kitty pr0n" HTH. HAND. g. From kd7bcy at teleport.com Tue Nov 4 12:43:20 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Cats In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I thought my wife killed one of my cats with one once. The cat was so in >need of catching the little red dot that it didn't realize it was >exhausted, until it just fell over panting and stayed on its side for the >next 20 minutes trying to catch its breath. Poor thing. Gotta wonder what they think it is... I can get mine to do interesting jumping tricks when playing with the laser :-) Not to mention poucing on their own tail if you aim it right... -JR From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 4 13:16:04 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Cats In-Reply-To: <3FA7D857.2050201@jetnet.ab.ca> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031104141604.00806570@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:48 AM 11/4/03 -0700, you wrote: >Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, chris wrote: >> >> >>>Its not as if they are watching Matlock reruns or anything. These are >>>videos of small animals flying or running around the screen. Basically, >>>its a video version of pulling a cat toy around on a string. Lots of >>>movement and sound, zero plot. >> >> >> So in other words, "cat porn". >> > > >NO! Nude Cat girl ,Errr Nevermind. > >It don't even have to look real,since the screen saver on my DVD >player is a glass ball constantly moving around the screen, >my cat often stares at it for few minutes and then walks away. >Many years ago there was a nature program on TV with birds chirping >and the cat was trying to catch the bird with his paw on the screen. >Still the best cat toy is laser light pointer, they all love to go >after that spot of light. You're kidding. It scares the hell out of all the critters arond here. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 4 13:14:13 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031104141413.00800a90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:36 AM 11/4/03 -0500, Chris wrote: >>Please tell me that you are kidding!!! Cats don't need a TV and VCR!! > >Nope not kidding in the least. > >And trust me, when you have a room of 30 cats of assorted ages, they most >definitly DO watch the TV to pass time. Companies even make videos >specifically for the purpose. They are of birds or other animals that a >cat would normally chase. > >Its not as if they are watching Matlock reruns or anything. These are >videos of small animals flying or running around the screen. Basically, >its a video version of pulling a cat toy around on a string. >Lots of movement and sound, zero plot. Oh, you mean like network television! Joe From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Nov 4 13:18:40 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Plastic gears OT somewhat In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You want to *really* be obsessive? Repair your gear so that it conforms to it's original dimensions, and clean / deburr it so that it is *exactly* the same - then make a lost-wax mold of it to then do an investment casting of it in bronze.... OR: Find a similar replacement in Boston Gear (or others) and have the center broached out to conform to the shaft. This of course is **way** more than a really nice VCR is worth... but it's the Principle of the Thing... ;} Cheers John From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Tue Nov 4 13:20:20 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... Message-ID: <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net> How many of you have seen this one? http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html I only got a 7.88955% result... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Nov 4 13:25:54 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: *********Re: Manual 16c In-Reply-To: <006201c3a234$c9cf21e0$f39d9dac@aoldsl.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20031029090346.00800b10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <006201c3a234$c9cf21e0$f39d9dac@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: <2816.4.20.168.121.1067973954.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Ed Sharpe" wrote about the HP-16C manual? > are these in the public domain? it seems we should scan them and put > them online... No, HP holds the copyright. Why would you think it would be public domain? Almost *nothing* is public domain, especially since the US ratified the Berne Convention. Between that and Congress routinely extending the term of copyrights (so that the copyright on Steamboat Willie doesn't lapse and bankrupt Disney), the only way things enter the public domain is if there owners take positive action to place them there. :-( From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Nov 4 13:25:54 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: *********Re: Manual 16c In-Reply-To: <006201c3a234$c9cf21e0$f39d9dac@aoldsl.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20031029090346.00800b10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <006201c3a234$c9cf21e0$f39d9dac@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: <2816.4.20.168.121.1067973954.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Ed Sharpe" wrote about the HP-16C manual? > are these in the public domain? it seems we should scan them and put > them online... No, HP holds the copyright. Why would you think it would be public domain? Almost *nothing* is public domain, especially since the US ratified the Berne Convention. Between that and Congress routinely extending the term of copyrights (so that the copyright on Steamboat Willie doesn't lapse and bankrupt Disney), the only way things enter the public domain is if there owners take positive action to place them there. :-( From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Nov 4 13:29:44 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: <4343586E-0D9D-11D8-8EC4-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> References: Message-ID: <3FA80C38.2647.6266252F@localhost> > >> Hi everyone, check this out, Hummer used the old > >> "Asteroids" video game in their latest commercial: > >> http://www.hummer.com/hummerjsp/world/tv/index.jsp > > Hummer: Everything That's Wrong With America > Hey Sellam, > You could carry a lot more collected computers in a hummer than you > could in that car in the pictures :^) Ron, give him a break, he's driving one of these big useless Toyota SUVs, and I'm bugging him every time I'm over when he finaly get's rid of that fuel sucking monster and gets himself a nice roomy and economic station wagoon. Then again, gas is so damn cheap in California .... Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Nov 4 13:31:04 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: *********Re: Manual 16c In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031103165146.00831790@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031029090346.00800b10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031103165146.00831790@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1985.4.20.168.121.1067974264.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Joe wrote about HP calculator manuals: > I don't know if they're exactly public domain but HP has given their > permission for peeople to copy them and sell copies and PDF copies. HP hasn't given "people" permission to do that. They gave Dave Hicks permission to do it. They might give permission to other people if they were asked, or they might not. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Nov 4 13:34:05 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Information about a HP 13197 1K WCS for the HP 1000? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031103223400.007f9a40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031103223400.007f9a40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <2219.4.20.168.121.1067974445.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Joe wrote: > Picked up this card today. PN 13197-60001. Anyone have any info on it? > I > TRIED to use Al's new website to check the HP 1000 CE manual. It over ten > minutes to load the FIRST page and I couldn't load any more. Has anyone > else tried it and are you having problems with it? I'm not speaking for Al, but... You're not supposed to view them in your web browser. You're supposed to download them (right click, then "save link target as...") then look at them with Acrobat Reader. Works *much* better on large scanned PDF files than trying to view them using the browser plug-in. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Nov 4 13:33:09 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue References: <3.0.6.32.20031104141413.00800a90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3FA7FEF5.4010807@jetnet.ab.ca> Joe wrote: > > Oh, you mean like network television! Cats have taste, well in TV. I personaly could not eat a dead mouse. > Joe > > Btw has anybody tried the music CD's thay have out for pets? Ben. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Nov 4 13:37:51 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: MDOS (Motorola EXORciser) disk format ? In-Reply-To: <20031103220220.F90787@newshell.lmi.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20031102174231.007eb600@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><20031102145113.E51344@newshell.lmi.net><1067890410.1381.84.camel@linux.local><001701c3a29c$935dc5e0$2201a8c0@finans> <20031103220220.F90787@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <3439.4.20.168.121.1067974671.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > PLEASE BE CAREFUL ABOUT ATTRIBUTION! > I DID NOT SAY THAT! It's a losing battle, but I guess we'll have to keep fighting it forever anyhow. Sigh. Somehow I always expected software to get better over time. For instance, there's no reason why an MUA shouldn't handle quoting and attribution correctly. But that doesn't seem to be what happens in practice. Microsoft Outlook makes a half-assed attempt at it, but is significantly worse than not doing it at all. Best regards, Eric From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Nov 4 13:42:35 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA80F3B.26617.6271E731@localhost> > >Actually, the Suburban/Suburban chasis is a pretty heavy duty > >off-road vehicle. In many smallish countries without a > >US/Euro/Asian/Dictator budget they are used as military vehicles. > LOL... Look at all the third world countries using Toyota pickups > with mounted MG's... How about a new assault weapon ban including > 80's Toyota pickups? You're watching to much A-Team reruns. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Nov 4 13:42:35 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: <20031103174902.O85967@newshell.lmi.net> References: Message-ID: <3FA80F3B.26696.6271E79F@localhost> > A significant savings in gas mileage > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2440477101 As a Ural Driver, all I can say is that it's a definite must in todays trafic. but only complete with at least one amunition box mounted and of course a gunner in the side car, so one can finaly get rid of all the Hummers. http://www.ural.de/gallery/mt16norw.jpg Gruss H. :) -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Nov 4 13:45:58 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue In-Reply-To: References: <3FA74762.2020303@internet1.net> Message-ID: <2700.4.20.168.121.1067975158.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "John Rollins" wrote: > Actually there was a story on the news a few weeks ago saying that > only "slow" cats like TV. They process information faster so a normal > cat doesn't see anything on the TV but a bunch of streaky lines - the > refresh rate is too slow for them. [...] > They just watch the scan lines going back and forth. Should be easy to test this hypothesis by using an LCD TV or monitor. The LCD material has a long enough persistence that it maintains a continuous image, as you can tell if you photograph one at a high shutter speed. If the hypothesis is true, and cats have short retinal persistence, on a CRT TV, cats wouldn't see the scanning per se. They'd see a rolling band, due to the phosphor persistence which is typically between 1/5 and 1/3 of the field rate. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Nov 4 13:50:38 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Cats In-Reply-To: References: <3FA7D857.2050201@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <1219.4.20.168.121.1067975438.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> ben franchuk wrote: > Still the best cat toy is laser light pointer, they all love to go > after that spot of light. Sellam Ismail wrote: > I've have had an incredible amount of fun with a laser pointer and a cat. Note that doing this for the purpose of exercising the cat may violate US patent 5443036. The patent makes no claims about doing it to entertain the human and/or the cat, however. The patent may be invalid anyhow, as it describes using a "beam of invisible light", which surely won't hold the cat's interest. A beam of red light works much better. I haven't tried a beam of green light, but green laser pointer prices have come down enough that it is tempting to try it the next time I'm in Colorado. (None of my close friends here in California have cats.) Eric From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Nov 4 14:01:34 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... References: <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <01fe01c3a30e$731a9f20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> My results (bored at work today) : 54.63511% - Super Geek - someone please shoot me :\ ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Woyciesjes" To: "ClassicCMP" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 1:20 PM Subject: The Geek Test... > How many of you have seen this one? > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html > > I only got a 7.88955% result... > > -- > --- Dave Woyciesjes > --- ICQ# 905818 > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From lbickley at bickleywest.com Tue Nov 4 13:57:01 2003 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net> References: <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200311041157.01738.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Whew, it's long! I got 37.86982% Lyle On Tuesday 04 November 2003 11:20, David Woyciesjes wrote: > How many of you have seen this one? > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html > > I only got a 7.88955% result... > > -- > --- Dave Woyciesjes > --- ICQ# 905818 -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA 94040 "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Nov 4 14:07:43 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: Outphaseing of technology (was: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial) In-Reply-To: References: <000801c3a1d0$83deebc0$df9dfea9@net> Message-ID: <3FA8151F.13553.6288ECB0@localhost> > > Hey, I'm one of them. I'm 23 now, I've been heavy into computers since I > > was about 14, been going after classics since I was about 17, worked in > > the computer lab of the local science museum(www.omsi.edu) for a year > > and a half around that time, got my ham license at 18... And the whole > > time I've been mostly surrounded by old farts. Rather depressing > > sometimes. There's a big problem getting younger people into ham radio, > > too... Hell, getting ANYONE. The old people just get grouchier and > > rarely teach the others(I'm glad I know a few exceptions to that), then > > they die and no one knows anything that isn't spelled out to them in 3rd > > grade(and we all know no one learns anything after that). > You've just pointed out one of the biggest problems facing our society. > When general knowledge of technology is lost, what then? Are all the > high-tech jobs going to be in India and China within 20 years? If so, > what will we be doing here in the US, and probably in Europe too? Well, no conspiracy or educational theories needed, some technologies which are so ubiquitous that we take them for 'imortal' will soon be phased out. Among them are things as analogue Radio and TV, includeing CRTs. I'm not talking digital satelite, or cable. Within the next 5-8 years the all terrestric TV transmission in Germany will be switched over to DVB-T, analoge licences will be revoked (as it already happened to some stations). It's only a matter of time until the whole feed chain will be all digital, from production over storrage and transmission to reciver and display... No more fast modifiying of a TV set into a computer CRT. All the knowledge will be worthless in 20-30 years, when there are just _no_new_tubes_ available... > The only people who will still know how all this crap works is the people > here on this list. Year, right, we will save the world ... :) H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 4 14:10:52 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: *********Re: Manual 16c In-Reply-To: <1985.4.20.168.121.1067974264.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031103165146.00831790@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031029090346.00800b10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031103165146.00831790@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031104151052.007ff7b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:31 AM 11/4/03 -0800, you wrote: >Joe wrote about HP calculator manuals: >> I don't know if they're exactly public domain but HP has given their >> permission for peeople to copy them and sell copies and PDF copies. > >HP hasn't given "people" permission to do that. They gave Dave Hicks >permission to do it. I believe that they gave blanket permission for anyone to do that. They might give permission to other people if >they were asked, or they might not. There's only one way to find out. Ask them. Joe > > From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Nov 4 14:25:47 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3FA8195B.1332.62997645@localhost> > How many of you have seen this one? > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html > I only got a 7.88955% result... Well, 60,74951% - Extreme Geek Now, is that good or bad? And who the heck is Jeanine Salla? Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From RMeenaks at OLF.COM Tue Nov 4 14:37:30 2003 From: RMeenaks at OLF.COM (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:49 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B5584780511C8D8@exchange.olf.com> I am more geeker than you :-) 17.55424% - Geek Ram -----Original Message----- From: David Woyciesjes [mailto:dwoyciesjes@comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 2:20 PM To: ClassicCMP Subject: The Geek Test... How many of you have seen this one? http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html I only got a 7.88955% result... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 ? 2003 OpenLink Financial Copyright in this message and any attachments remains with us. It is confidential and may be legally privileged. If this message is not intended for you it must not be read, copied or used by you or disclosed to anyone else. Please advise the sender immediately if you have received this message in error. Although this message and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Open Link Financial, Inc. for any loss or damage in any way arising from its use. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Nov 4 14:40:49 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <200311041157.01738.lbickley@bickleywest.com> References: <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3FA81CE1.13452.62A73ABE@localhost> > > How many of you have seen this one? > > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html > > I only got a 7.88955% result... > Whew, it's long! I got 37.86982% Shure, Lyle, it's the first hurdle to proof that you're a geek! (And the second is of course to switch to 8859-1 as charset :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From RMaxwell at atlantissi.com Tue Nov 4 14:41:35 2003 From: RMaxwell at atlantissi.com (Robert Maxwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2X starts up with silly display Message-ID: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E4890@INETMAIL> Tobias: Sorry I've fallen behind on the CCtech output, so this is a little behind schedule. First, I have schematics of your 2X (also the 2, 4, 10, II, Robie - most of them except the KII use the same motherboard with different BIOSes and varying levels of IC population). I can scan them, and send them to you in a day or three. Second: your display... unlike terminals where characters arrive serially, and unlike PCs (and the KII) which have video RAM in the CPU's memory map, the later Kaypros use a 6845 CRT controller and a custom 40-pin LSI chip. They form a separate video data/address bus, so any characters incoming have to be sent to a specified location using registers holding the target video address. Since the BIOS has to keep on updating the character location to write to, there's a lot of CPU cycles tied up in the transaction. This is why the Kaypro video is glacially slow on full-screen updates. I would suspect that you've got a bad contact on the LSI that bridges the CPU to the video. Try pulling (gently!) all the 40-pin ICs (6845 and Z80 too) from their sockets, and re-insert them. (Open inputs tend to read as logic 1, and the worst of your errors occur in the upper screen, where logic 0 is needed for the address.) If enough corrosion built up to mess up the keyboard, there's a good chance the IC sockets are a little wobbly too. You might also rub down the IC pins using a pencil eraser if they look exceptionally cruddy. *Standard ESD precautions apply* Hope this is useful. Regards, Bob (and his stable full of orphaned hardware). Part of original message: > Here are a few more details regarding the problem: > > I didn't start my Kaypro 2X for several years. Some weeks ago I gave it > a short try and everything seemed to be okay except for the keyboard. > Due to corrosion many keys didn't react. So I gave it to a friend, who > first tested all the keys to see which were in need to be cleaned. The > display was still okay at that time. Then he opened the keyboard and > cleaned the contacts inside the keyswitches (he had to solder them out > in order to do that). When he had finished the cleaning he assembled and > reconnected the keyboard and started the computer. From that time the > display went silly: > > - The powerup message shows up at random coordinates, however some of > the coordinates are okay (see > http://home.arcor.de/toa/tmp/kaypro-defekt.jpg). There are a lot of > additional characters, most of them are '?' (n with ~ above). A few of > the characters are blinking or show up with low intensity. Effect is the > same with or without keyboard connected. Everytime I hit the reset > button I see another random distribution. > > - When you type something on the keyboard (at the CP/M prompt) the > characters show up at random coordinates but the blinking cursor moves > in the way one would expect (one step to the right for each character, > 3rd position of new line when you hit return). W/o any keyboard input > the display is stable except for the blinking chars. > > - When you type in CP/M commands (I still have all the disks) they get > executed but the output characters show up at random coordinates (see > http://home.arcor.de/toa/tmp/kaypro-dir.jpg for an output of "dir"). > > Has anyone schematics for the Kaypro 2X? > Any hints what to do next? > > Tobias From CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL Tue Nov 4 14:41:35 2003 From: CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: Cats Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16DE5@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Actually, I remember reading somewhere that cats have limited color perception. To a cat, red appears to be black. Don't know what green maps to, however... -al- -acorda@1bigred.com -----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith [mailto:eric@brouhaha.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 2:51 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Cats ben franchuk wrote: > Still the best cat toy is laser light pointer, they all love to go > after that spot of light. Sellam Ismail wrote: > I've have had an incredible amount of fun with a laser pointer and a cat. Note that doing this for the purpose of exercising the cat may violate US patent 5443036. The patent makes no claims about doing it to entertain the human and/or the cat, however. The patent may be invalid anyhow, as it describes using a "beam of invisible light", which surely won't hold the cat's interest. A beam of red light works much better. I haven't tried a beam of green light, but green laser pointer prices have come down enough that it is tempting to try it the next time I'm in Colorado. (None of my close friends here in California have cats.) Eric From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Nov 4 14:43:21 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue In-Reply-To: <3FA74762.2020303@internet1.net> References: <3FA74762.2020303@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20031104124000.T3651@newshell.lmi.net> > Please tell me that you are kidding!!! Cats don't need a TV and VCR!! Particularly when they could have a monitor and computer, instead! Cats take to keyboards like cabbies to beaded seat cushions! Humans will not remember to put covers on keyboards, so I had to get keyboard drawers for the humane society. How long would it take to train them which keys to press to switch the screen to their favorite kitty porn? From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Tue Nov 4 14:44:15 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... References: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B5584780511C8D8@exchange.olf.com> Message-ID: <3FA80F9F.FAE226BA@comcast.net> Yeah, that number I got is only Poser status... Oh well... Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > > I am more geeker than you :-) > > 17.55424% - Geek > > Ram > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Woyciesjes [mailto:dwoyciesjes@comcast.net] > > How many of you have seen this one? > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html > > I only got a 7.88955% result... > > -- -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From luc at e2t.be Tue Nov 4 14:57:45 2003 From: luc at e2t.be (Luc Vande Velde) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: Cats In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Lolly's.... Is this a cat & hummer club???? I always tought it was about computers... Lucky Luke -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]Namens John Rollins Verzonden: dinsdag 4 november 2003 19:43 Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Onderwerp: Re: Cats >I thought my wife killed one of my cats with one once. The cat was so in >need of catching the little red dot that it didn't realize it was >exhausted, until it just fell over panting and stayed on its side for the >next 20 minutes trying to catch its breath. Poor thing. Gotta wonder what they think it is... I can get mine to do interesting jumping tricks when playing with the laser :-) Not to mention poucing on their own tail if you aim it right... -JR From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Nov 4 14:59:56 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net> Message-ID: > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html 38.65878% - Major Geek From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Nov 4 15:02:55 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: Outphaseing of technology (was: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial) In-Reply-To: <3FA8151F.13553.6288ECB0@localhost> References: <3FA8151F.13553.6288ECB0@localhost> Message-ID: In message <3FA8151F.13553.6288ECB0@localhost> "Hans Franke" wrote: > Year, right, we will save the world ... > :) "And the Geek shall inherit the Earth" :-P Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, Ethernet (Acorn AEH62), http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 8xCD, framegrabber, Teletext For sale: One Russian space station. Needs minor repairs. From kentborg at borg.org Tue Nov 4 15:05:27 2003 From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net>; from dwoyciesjes@comcast.net on Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 02:20:20PM -0500 References: <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20031104160527.J8144@borg.org> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 02:20:20PM -0500, David Woyciesjes wrote: > How many of you have seen this one? > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html 37.27811% - Major Geek -kb From PasserM at umkc.edu Tue Nov 4 15:09:23 2003 From: PasserM at umkc.edu (Passer, Michael W.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... Message-ID: <871F3967B5AAF64CA4B3EF9D70AD905701069F7C@KC-MAIL4.kc.umkc.edu> 26.23274% - Total Geek. And proud of it! From jplist at kiwigeek.com Tue Nov 4 15:14:24 2003 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html Geeky enough that I can't use the damned thing because the twerp that wrote it only allows the use of JavaScript to do the point counting, and my browser is so old it doesn't support that :P (Of course, that might not be Geeky, and just Sad. Then again, often times those two things are eerily the same) JP From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Nov 4 15:19:14 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... References: <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <001001c3a319$4ccbf250$3d7ca418@game> 21.2% Geek Must be because I am an engineer ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Woyciesjes" To: "ClassicCMP" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 2:20 PM Subject: The Geek Test... > How many of you have seen this one? > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html > > I only got a 7.88955% result... > > -- > --- Dave Woyciesjes > --- ICQ# 905818 From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 4 15:22:13 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: AVL road Runner computer Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031104162213.008ed4c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Last week I found an interesting looking computer in a scrap place. It was called a Road Runner and was made by AVL. I wasn't familar with it so I posted a question here on the CC list about it and no one knew exactly what it was but a number of people contacted me about it and wanted to see some pictures of it. Yesterday I went back and and bought it. I brought home and today I cleaned it up and took some photos. First, the system was made by Audio Visual Labs of Atlantic Highlands, NJ. Second, I ended up with TWO monitors, TWO floppy drives and a detachable keyboard even though the unit has a built in keyboard. After I bought the thing but before I left, I was looking around and found a bigger computer marked AVL Eagle (I THINK Eagle was the name on it). I opened it up and it looked like an S-100 chassis. It had 9 slots with 8 boards in it. Two boards had 8080 CPUs, three boards had Intersil 6204s (communications boards? and three boards had 2114 memory ICs on them. All the boards including the backplane were made by AVL. I'd already paid for my stuff and I didn't think this one was all that interesting so I left it behind. But my point is that I think I ened up with the keyboard, monitor and floppy drive from the second AVL system as well as those for the AVL Road Runner. Anyway here's the links to the pictures. The Road Runner computer and the back of it; . Note the connector on the left that connects to the expansion box. Picture of the expansion box, front and rear; and . Note the the floppy drive attachs to the expansion box and it appears that only one floppy drive can be used on the compter. Small VM-5 (5 inch?) monitor, front and back; and . Large VM-9 (9 inch?) monitor, front and back; and . The external keyboard; . The two floppy drives; and . I don't know which drive goes with which system but I don't thinkit matters since the drives appear to be very similar despite the cables coming out at different points in the box and the drives being painted different colors. Both drives are marked FD-1. It's not made by AVL but this patch panel was in the box with the AVL stuff.. From the markings on it, I'd say that it was used with the Road Runner. OK that's it. Can anyone tell me any more about it? Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 4 15:27:53 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: Anybody know what this HP test board is for? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031104162753.007a2530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> See . It's marked "FDB Test Board" and it's PN 10921-60009. You can't see it in the photo but the LEDs are labled 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, COMD, COMC. I found this in a box of HP 1000 parts so I suspect it for the 1000 or one of it's peripherals. Joe From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Tue Nov 4 15:28:40 2003 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue References: Message-ID: <012901c3a31a$9ea9a120$a15e4ed5@geoff> I've found Loctite 406 - superglue for plastics and rubber to be very good , I buy it locally in the UPVC window centre - costs about ?5 for a 20g bottle - about $7.50 American. http://content.loctite-europe.com/ceemesa/lctww/USA_center.htm http://www.henkel.com/int_henkel/adhesives/index.cfm Appears that Henkel own Loctite, above links may be of interest. Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 4:19 PM Subject: Non crap plastic glue > Since the archives are down, I can't search for this, but I know its been > discussed here before. > > Can anyone recommend a glue for plastic that doesn't suck. Testor's no > longer makes usable plastic model glue. The tube is labeled as "for > polystyrene or ABS plastic", but I think scotch tape would hold better > than this crap will. > > SuperGlue (Krazy Glue, whatever the brand on that tube says) doesn't do > any better. > > > I've got a plastic push gear I'm trying to glue back together, and so far > three different glues haven't done squat! The last one I tried was some > brand of a super glue designed to fill gaps and bond most anything to > anything... yeah right! As soon as the gear was pushed, it snapped at the > glue line again (after letting it dry all weekend). > > > So what's a good plastic glue that I can buy, and where can I get it?!? > Damn parental groups worrying about kids glueing their eye lids shut have > ruined it for us all! > > -chris > > From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Nov 4 15:36:18 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: *********Re: Manual 16c In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031104151052.007ff7b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031103165146.00831790@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><3.0.6.32.20031029090346.00800b10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><3.0.6.32.20031103165146.00831790@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031104151052.007ff7b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3165.4.20.168.121.1067981778.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Joe Rigdon and I wrote: >>> I don't know if they're exactly public domain but HP has given their >>> permission for peeople to copy them and sell copies and PDF copies. >> HP hasn't given "people" permission to do that. They gave Dave Hicks >> permission to do it. > I believe that they gave blanket permission for anyone to do that. Got any idea where/when that happened? From personal correspondence with Dave Hicks, I know that he specifically requested and received permission, but I have not heard of anyone else doing so, nor of any blanket permission. If they have in fact done that, it would be quite useful, but it doesn't seem like something that HP's lawyers would be likely to do. Eric From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Nov 4 15:37:29 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: Cats In-Reply-To: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16DE5@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> References: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16DE5@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Message-ID: <4786.4.20.168.121.1067981849.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Corda Albert J DLVA" wrote: > Actually, I remember reading somewhere that cats have limited > color perception. True, AFAIK. > To a cat, red appears to be black. Not true. Otherwise they wouldn't be interested in red laser pointers. From jdickens at ameritech.net Tue Nov 4 15:34:29 2003 From: jdickens at ameritech.net (James Dickens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: 13W3 question / SGI Indy lost root passwd question In-Reply-To: <200311022004.hA2K4Hw23881@mail.bardstown.com> References: <200311022004.hA2K4Hw23881@mail.bardstown.com> Message-ID: <200311041534.30348.jdickens@ameritech.net> On Sunday 02 November 2003 14:04, owen@bardstown.com wrote: > Hello list, > > I have recently bought a SGI Indy from Ebay. It uses 13w3. Can I get any > ol' 13w3, or are there special needs for my indy? I also have an IBM > POWERstation 220 that uses 13w3, so a generic adapter would be nice ;) > if your monitor supports the resolution 1024x768 76 hz.. and it supports sync on green then yes an adapter will work... search on google for a list of supported monitors. Basicly you need a nice 17" or better monitor bargain basement won't cut it. > Now, the next question -- my Indy is in transit, but I know that noone has > root, including the seller. Also, no IRIX media is included -- no > maintenance mode. I do _not_ have a SCSI interface on my computer here. So, > I _can't_ pull the drive, mount it on Linux, and ta-da! if your indy has XL video there is linux support. but if you have any other framebuffers then your best chance is finding a copy of IRIX. > > So, can I do one of these: > > * Linux lets you boot directly into single-user mode with a kernel option. > Is that possible with this system? > > * If the system has a CDROM, can I use some type of Linux bootable CD with > SGI's FS support (EFS, if I recall.) to mount the disk and VI it? the biggest problem is if the drive is 4gig or smaller it uses 1k clusters when formated (unless IRIX was told to do otherwise) and linux XFS only supports 4k clusters. so the linux support is not availible. if it has IRIX 6.3 or earlier there is an explointable security whole that you can use to gain root access.. google on telnet exploit IRIX and you should find a link to a program that can exploit the hole. > > Or, if anyone else has ideas... I contemplated a SCSI add-in card for my > real box, any other thoughts? > > Also, the last question -- since I have no IRIX media, how can I do a > _complete_ backup -- should I buy a big SCSI HD and do that? Or are there > better means? (Anyone want to sell me a cheap copy of IRIX ;-)) if you can gain access to the root account there are tools to make copies of the disk. or else you can do a copy of the disk by installing a second disk. ebay should have plenty of small 50 pin scsi disks that can be used for this for a few dollars. the disk can be copied in the bios.. just look up disk replication and there are documents on how to do this. > > TIA, > Owen Marshall > Linux Geekboy, SGI > Fanboy From lbickley at bickleywest.com Tue Nov 4 15:28:59 2003 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: The Geek Test.. In-Reply-To: <01fe01c3a30e$731a9f20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net> <01fe01c3a30e$731a9f20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200311041328.59391.lbickley@bickleywest.com> You're in serious trouble, Jay. Lyle On Tuesday 04 November 2003 12:01, Jay West wrote: > My results (bored at work today) : 54.63511% - Super Geek - someone please > shoot me :\ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Woyciesjes" > To: "ClassicCMP" > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 1:20 PM > Subject: The Geek Test... > > > How many of you have seen this one? > > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html > > > > I only got a 7.88955% result... > > > > -- > > --- Dave Woyciesjes > > --- ICQ# 905818 > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA 94040 "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 4 15:26:03 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: Outphaseing of technology (was: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial) In-Reply-To: <3FA8151F.13553.6288ECB0@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Nov 4, 3 09:07:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 415 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031104/93a30968/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 4 15:13:18 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue In-Reply-To: from "chris" at Nov 3, 3 09:54:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1964 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031104/28945c73/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 4 15:15:39 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: Information about a HP 13197 1K WCS for the HP 1000? In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Nov 3, 3 09:22:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 437 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031104/3a9c504b/attachment.ksh From llyon at commodore.thebbs.org Tue Nov 4 16:11:14 2003 From: llyon at commodore.thebbs.org (Lance Lyon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... References: Message-ID: <00a001c3a320$90237670$0100a8c0@LANCE> > > > > > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html > > Geeky enough that I can't use the damned thing because the twerp that > wrote it only allows the use of JavaScript to do the point counting, and > my browser is so old it doesn't support that :P 21.69625% - Geek Guess that's a pass :-) > > > > > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html > > Geeky enough that I can't use the damned thing because the twerp that > wrote it only allows the use of JavaScript to do the point counting, and > my browser is so old it doesn't support that :P 21.69625% - Geek Guess that's a pass :-) From aek at spies.com Tue Nov 4 16:11:46 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: Information about a HP 13197 1K WCS for the HP 1000? Message-ID: <200311042211.hA4MBkrB016475@spies.com> > You're not supposed to view them in your web browser. It should work fine that way, assuming the pdf plugin is sending the right html commands to the web server. I see people reading docs this way all the time. To answer the original question, the WCS card is documented in the 1000 M/E/F Engineering Reference http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/1000/1000_MEF_EngrRef/ 92851-90001_Mar81_6.pdf section B From Innfogra at aol.com Tue Nov 4 16:17:08 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: AVL road Runner computer Message-ID: <147.1bd61b22.2cd97f64@aol.com> Joe; I recently sold one of these on eBay, not for much. The Roadrunner is a multi event controller for multiple slide projectors. The monitor plugs into the video connector and is just a composite monitor for the computer. I think the 5" monitor power plug fits into a matching socket on the expansion box so that is the one I would use. the disk drive plugs into the back of the expansion cab. Plugged together something should come up on the screen. IIRC the Record Out and Play In are for the control signal pulses generated by the controller. Also Out 2 on the expansion unit. The patch panel looks like it is for audio. The most interesting for me would be the S100 Eagle. AVL did use S100 computer systems. The 9" monitor and the keyboard go to the Eagle box, as does one of the disk drives I think. The Roadrunner I sold was just the small controller keyboard. And it was missing a keycap; I got about $28 IIRC. The Eagle is late 1970s or early 80s and the Roadrunner is early 1980s. Video projectors have taken over most of the market for this for multiple slide projector shows. You seem to have complete sets of equipment so it is probably worth getting the Eagle and saving both. Paxton Astoria, OR From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Nov 4 16:18:22 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: Outphaseing of technology (was: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial) In-Reply-To: References: <3FA8151F.13553.6288ECB0@localhost> Message-ID: <200311041718.22299.jcwren@jcwren.com> Which follows the old maxim about people with a bent for technology trying to bribe someone: Always beware of a geek bearing grifts. --John On Tuesday 04 November 2003 16:02 pm, Philip Pemberton wrote: > In message <3FA8151F.13553.6288ECB0@localhost> > > "Hans Franke" wrote: > > Year, right, we will save the world ... > > > > :) > > "And the Geek shall inherit the Earth" :-P > > Later. From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Nov 4 16:18:30 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: Information about a HP 13197 1K WCS for the HP 1000? References: Message-ID: <033301c3a321$93d0f8a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> And Joe just FOUND it?? I had to pay real $$$ for mine. Guess the guy could sense I was desperate for it :> J ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 3:15 PM Subject: Re: Information about a HP 13197 1K WCS for the HP 1000? > > > > On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Joe wrote: > > > > > Picked up this card today. PN 13197-60001. Anyone have any info on it? I > > > TRIED to use Al's new website to check the HP 1000 CE manual. It over ten > > > minutes to load the FIRST page and I couldn't load any more. Has anyone > > > else tried it and are you having problems with it? > > > > 1K Writable Control Store :) > > Which presumably lets you writr your own processor microcode.... > > -tony > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Nov 4 16:20:12 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: Cats In-Reply-To: <4786.4.20.168.121.1067981849.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16DE5@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> <4786.4.20.168.121.1067981849.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <200311041720.12428.jcwren@jcwren.com> I've heard that what interests the cat in the laser is the fact that the cat is unable to focus on it, and it really bugs them. My cats of days gone by would play with the dot until you touched them with it. Then I guess they realized they couldn't catch it or somesuch, and would lose interest for a few hours. --John On Tuesday 04 November 2003 16:37 pm, Eric Smith wrote: > "Corda Albert J DLVA" wrote: > > Actually, I remember reading somewhere that cats have limited > > color perception. > > True, AFAIK. > > > To a cat, red appears to be black. > > Not true. Otherwise they wouldn't be interested in red laser > pointers. From lbickley at bickleywest.com Tue Nov 4 16:21:40 2003 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: *********Re: Manual 16c In-Reply-To: <3165.4.20.168.121.1067981778.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031103165146.00831790@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031104151052.007ff7b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3165.4.20.168.121.1067981778.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <200311041421.40988.lbickley@bickleywest.com> I've got contacts within HP's legal group. If we can define the scope of what we'd like released; i.e., calculator and computer manuals before 1980, or whatever, I'll be glad to try to get their release under HP copyright (I wouldn't bother to try for public domain). Lyle On Tuesday 04 November 2003 13:36, Eric Smith wrote: > Joe Rigdon and I wrote: > >>> I don't know if they're exactly public domain but HP has given their > >>> permission for peeople to copy them and sell copies and PDF copies. > >> > >> HP hasn't given "people" permission to do that. They gave Dave Hicks > >> permission to do it. > > > > I believe that they gave blanket permission for anyone to do that. > > Got any idea where/when that happened? From personal correspondence > with Dave Hicks, I know that he specifically requested and received > permission, but I have not heard of anyone else doing so, nor of any > blanket permission. If they have in fact done that, it would be quite > useful, but it doesn't seem like something that HP's lawyers would be > likely to do. > > Eric -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA 94040 "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Nov 4 16:40:32 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: Information about a HP 13197 1K WCS for the HP 1000? In-Reply-To: <200311042211.hA4MBkrB016475@spies.com> Message-ID: <001501c3a324$ac056250$5b01a8c0@athlon> > > You're not supposed to view them in your web browser. > > It should work fine that way, assuming the pdf plugin is > sending the right html commands to the web server. I see > people reading docs this way all the time. Yes but I find it doesn't work so well with large scanned documents ... sometimes nothing shows up or the browser just hangs. I assume it's to do with the size of the document rather than the internal encoding, but as I don't have many non-scanned 50MB+ docs it's not something I can readily test. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From kd7bcy at teleport.com Tue Nov 4 16:44:55 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: Cats In-Reply-To: <200311041720.12428.jcwren@jcwren.com> References: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16DE5@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> <4786.4.20.168.121.1067981849.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <200311041720.12428.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: >I've heard that what interests the cat in the laser is the fact that the cat >is unable to focus on it, and it really bugs them. I have trouble focusing some of those cheap pointers too... All ya get is a fuzzy dot. I think my cat figure out a few years ago what it was... She doesn't go as crazy as she did as a kitten and she looks for a dot every time I pick up a small object :-) She stopped biting her tail pretty quick, too. She still tries to catch the dot as it goes by tho... OK, time for computer content. I use my laser pointer as bait to get the cat to jump off of my monitor so I can play Wolfenstein or AA! LOL... -JR From patrick at evocative.com Tue Nov 4 16:49:58 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net> Message-ID: Egad, I scored 41.22288% - Major Geek. That's embarrassing. It's a good thing I don't like Tolkein, or I'd really have gone nose down into the dirt. My suggestions for additions: * I have a goatee * I have a Van Dyke * I know the difference * I have a full beard * My beard is longer than the hair on my head * My beard reaches my belly (standing) * My belly reaches my beard (sitting) * The hair on my head reaches my shoulders (men only) * ...and I wash it weekly whether it needs it or not * The hair on my head is less than 1" long (women only) * I use Kool-Aid as a hair-care product (women only) * I've seen every Bruce Campbell movie, twice (or more) * When watching original Star Trek reruns, I mumble the script * I'd stop traffic in a 45 zone to grab a computer from the curb * ...and I've been involved in a traffic accident because of it * I've been to the hospital because of a computer-moving-related accident * I have a Pentium (I)-based computer running Linux running only sendmail (or nothing) * ...'uptime' reports more than 300 days, and I don't remember the root password * I prefer FreeBSD to Linux * The spare parts for my everyday PC don't fit into a single standard moving box * My coffee table routinely has at least one schematic diagram on it * My coffee table routinely has a piece of electronic equipment on it * ...in pieces * My house has a PBX * My house is wired for Ethernet * ...even in the bathrooms * My house is wired for fiber * ...even in the bathrooms * I share internet access with a neighbor via wireless * I have a wireless access point for the entire neighborhood * When the phone company/cable company/electrician leaves, I redo their work * I'd pay $1,000 to have dinner with Heidi Klum * ...I'd pay twice that for dinner with Woz * I'm wasting far too many cycles thinking up things like this Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of David Woyciesjes > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 11:20 AM > To: ClassicCMP > Subject: The Geek Test... > > > How many of you have seen this one? > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html > > I only got a 7.88955% result... > > -- > --- Dave Woyciesjes > --- ICQ# 905818 > > From CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL Tue Nov 4 17:01:59 2003 From: CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: Cats Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16DE6@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Ok, did a little web search on this, and found... http://videoforcats.com/catvision.htm Don't know how authoritative this is, but it sounds like they did a bit of research... It would be interesting to see how a cat would respond to a green laser pointer... apparently green is one of the colors they seem to be sensitive to. BTW, this is getting off topic... perhaps it should end soon. (with apologies for drawing it out)... -al- -acorda@1bigred.com -----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith [mailto:eric@brouhaha.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 4:37 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: Cats "Corda Albert J DLVA" wrote: > Actually, I remember reading somewhere that cats have limited > color perception. True, AFAIK. > To a cat, red appears to be black. Not true. Otherwise they wouldn't be interested in red laser pointers. From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Nov 4 17:19:16 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: <3FA80C38.2647.6266252F@localhost> Message-ID: <4F65B452-0F1D-11D8-878C-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 01:29 PM, Hans Franke wrote: > Then again, gas is so > damn cheap in California .... Yikes! I escaped CA, and one of the reasons was the prices! But I guess CA is cheaper than most of europe ;^) From shirsch at adelphia.net Tue Nov 4 17:55:01 2003 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: CP/M to DOS conversion programs In-Reply-To: <005e01c3a29d$47796890$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Nico de Jong wrote: > > Are there any PC (DOS) programs that can > > > > 1) Read a CP/M disk > > 2) Save the contents, including the boot tracks to a DOS file (or files) > > 3) Format a CP/M disk > > 4) Write these files back to the disk, including the boot tracks? > > > > Yes, IMWIN. (www.farumdata.dk/enimwin.htm) > It will take a photocopy of the disk, and copy the format information > (tracks, sectorlength,....) to the new disk. I assume that if I have to ask the price of IMWIN, I cannot afford it? Anytime a web site plays so coy about pricing, I know it will be costly. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 4 17:03:20 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: *********Re: Manual 16c In-Reply-To: <3165.4.20.168.121.1067981778.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031104151052.007ff7b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031103165146.00831790@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031029090346.00800b10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031103165146.00831790@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031104151052.007ff7b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031104180320.007e6100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:36 PM 11/4/03 -0800, you wrote: >Joe Rigdon and I wrote: >>>> I don't know if they're exactly public domain but HP has given their >>>> permission for peeople to copy them and sell copies and PDF copies. >>> HP hasn't given "people" permission to do that. They gave Dave Hicks >>> permission to do it. >> I believe that they gave blanket permission for anyone to do that. > >Got any idea where/when that happened? No, not exactly but that's what I was told at one the HP calculator conferences a couple of years ago. I think it was Richard Nelson that told me that. From personal correspondence >with Dave Hicks, I know that he specifically requested and received >permission, but I have not heard of anyone else doing so, nor of any >blanket permission. If they have in fact done that, it would be quite >useful, but it doesn't seem like something that HP's lawyers would be >likely to do. Why not? If they're going to let Dave copy and sell CDs then why not let everyone do it? Joe > >Eric > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 4 17:12:36 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: Information about a HP 13197 1K WCS for the HP 1000? In-Reply-To: <200311042211.hA4MBkrB016475@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031104181236.007d3e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:11 PM 11/4/03 -0800, you wrote: > >> You're not supposed to view them in your web browser. > >It should work fine that way, assuming the pdf plugin is sending the >right html commands to the web server. That's what I thought! But I tried saving the files directly and it worked MUCH better. I could save an 18 Mb file in a couple of minutes that way. Using Acrobat I couldn't even get one page in the same time. I tried to open and save a 9Mb file last week and it ran for over 2 1/2 hours and only got about 1/4 of the file before a power glitch crashed the computer. No idea why Acrobat slows things down so much. It doesn't seem to be a problem on small files but the time seems to go up exponentally with file size. I see people reading docs this >way all the time. > >To answer the original question, the WCS card is documented in the >1000 M/E/F Engineering Reference >http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/1000/1000_MEF_EngrRef/ I couldn't find a specific docs for it but I thought it might be in the Engineering Reference. I downloaded it this afternoon but haven't had a chance to look through it yet. Thanks, Joe > >92851-90001_Mar81_6.pdf section B > > From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Nov 4 18:17:42 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: *********Re: Manual 16c In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031104180320.007e6100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031104151052.007ff7b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><3.0.6.32.20031103165146.00831790@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><3.0.6.32.20031029090346.00800b10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><3.0.6.32.20031103165146.00831790@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><3.0.6.32.20031104151052.007ff7b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031104180320.007e6100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <2982.4.20.168.121.1067991462.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Joe asks: > Why not? If they're going to let Dave copy and sell CDs then why not let > everyone do it? Ya gotta try to think like a lawyer to understand stuff like this. To a laywer, granting any sort of permission to any party potentially creates liability. Does granting permission to reproduce old calculator manuals *really* create any liability? Probably not. But NOT granting permission definitely doesn't. Thus the answer "no" is the safe answer, and the one legal is most likely to give. To get an answer other than "no", you usually have to have someone inside the company (but not in legal) championing the cause. Granting blanket permission for everyone to do something is seen as even more potential liability than granting permission to one person or a group. From at258 at osfn.org Tue Nov 4 18:21:36 2003 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue In-Reply-To: <3FA74762.2020303@internet1.net> Message-ID: Mine insists on a DVD player. On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Please tell me that you are kidding!!! Cats don't need a TV and VCR!! > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > chris wrote: > > its a crappy TV/VCR unit that the cats use to watch videos of > > birds... > > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Nov 4 18:27:54 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Egad, > > I scored 41.22288% - Major Geek. That's embarrassing. It's a > good thing I > don't like Tolkein, or I'd really have gone nose down into the dirt. I got 39.5% so I'm wondering what the hell might have happened if I'd have liked Star Trek and/or not got any friends :) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From ian_primus at yahoo.com Tue Nov 4 18:31:19 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: Cats In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5FF63A3E-0F27-11D8-8170-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 12:53 PM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, ben franchuk wrote: > >> Still the best cat toy is laser light pointer, they all love to go >> after that spot of light. > > I've have had an incredible amount of fun with a laser pointer and a > cat. Yes. My cat loves chasing the laser pointer. That $1 laser pointer probably gives the cat more exercise than anything else... I've noticed that cats and computer people seem to go together. Before I upgraded, my cat used to love to sleep on the external hard drive from my old Macintosh Centris 610. It was near the window, and when I was using it, the drive would heat up, so the cat always slept there. Now he primarily holds down the papers on my desk, or sleeps on my bed. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Nov 4 19:11:34 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: OT: Id this Teletype machine Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031104201134.00800100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Last week I drug home a Teletype machine just seconds before it was going to be tossed in a dumpster but I can't identify it. It LOOKS like a model 28 KSR Compact as seen at but the only id tag that I can find on it says TT-187A/UG. Inside is another tag that says MX-1114A/UG Keyboard. Can anyone id it from those numbers? Also found a second piece that looks the M28 Transmitter-Distributer shownon the same page. The label in it says CY-871/UG TT-69A/UG. I need help id'ing this one too. The property on it says that it came from McDonald Douglas and that it's a "reader, tape". Joe From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Nov 4 19:23:48 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: Cats References: <5FF63A3E-0F27-11D8-8170-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002401c3a33b$788054a0$3d7ca418@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Primus" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 7:31 PM Subject: Re: Cats > > On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 12:53 PM, Vintage Computer Festival > wrote: > > > On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, ben franchuk wrote: > > > >> Still the best cat toy is laser light pointer, they all love to go > >> after that spot of light. > > > > I've have had an incredible amount of fun with a laser pointer and a > > cat. > > Yes. My cat loves chasing the laser pointer. That $1 laser pointer > probably gives the cat more exercise than anything else... > > I've noticed that cats and computer people seem to go together. Before > I upgraded, my cat used to love to sleep on the external hard drive > from my old Macintosh Centris 610. It was near the window, and when I > was using it, the drive would heat up, so the cat always slept there. > Now he primarily holds down the papers on my desk, or sleeps on my bed. > > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com > > Computer users are too glued to their machines to take a dog out for a walk so cats do nicely. I have 8 here (dam stray we adopted had a litter) and they love watching the mouse pointer fly across the screen. They also love sleeping on anything electronic thats warm like my DSS reciever, my moms DishNetowrk reciever, on top of the old vcr etc. From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Nov 4 19:29:24 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <200311041157.01738.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: <7CF09B84-0F2F-11D8-878C-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 01:57 PM, Lyle Bickley wrote: > Whew, it's long! I got 37.86982% > 32.86588 - Geek > I only got a 7.88955% result... From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Nov 4 19:31:34 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:50 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <20031104160527.J8144@borg.org> Message-ID: On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 03:05 PM, Kent Borg wrote: > On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 02:20:20PM -0500, David Woyciesjes wrote: >> How many of you have seen this one? >> http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html > > 37.27811% - Major Geek > > -kb > With a name like "BORG" shouldn't you have gotten a better score? :^) (kidding) ron From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Nov 4 19:33:15 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: JP Hindin "Re: The Geek Test..." (Nov 4, 15:14) References: Message-ID: <10311050133.ZM2225@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 4, 15:14, JP Hindin wrote: > > > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html > > Geeky enough that I can't use the damned thing because the twerp that > wrote it only allows the use of JavaScript to do the point counting, and > my browser is so old it doesn't support that :P I had almost that problem -- mine does Javascript but it's normally switched off. Final result was 34.31953% - Total Geek. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Nov 4 19:34:08 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <26529FEA-0F30-11D8-878C-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 04:49 PM, Patrick Rigney wrote: > > * I've seen every Bruce Campbell movie, twice (or more) > * When watching original Star Trek reruns, I mumble the script * When watching original Star Trek reruns I name the episode before the title is shown. > * I'd stop traffic in a 45 zone to grab a computer from the curb > * ...and I've been involved in a traffic accident because of it From vcf at siconic.com Tue Nov 4 20:16:06 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: Any suggestions for cleaning yellowed computer parts? In-Reply-To: <3FA7E36B.9060407@srv.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Kevin Handy wrote: > B.Degnan wrote: > > > Does anyone have a secret recipe that is *safe* for cleaning > > yellowed/stained plastic computer parts that were originally white? I > > have had some success with various cleaning agents, but nothing > > spectacular. -bill wilmington, delaware > > > You aren't going to get it back all the way to the original whiteness, > and it depends on if it is more yellowed from "smoking" or age, but > spraying on 409 and letting it soak for a while before wiping it off can > greatly improve the color. It takes several repeats: keep doing it until > the yellow stops running. A run through the dishwasher sometimes helps (note: sometimes). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Nov 4 20:21:59 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: <3FA80C38.2647.6266252F@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > Ron, give him a break, he's driving one of these big useless > Toyota SUVs, and I'm bugging him every time I'm over when he > finaly get's rid of that fuel sucking monster and gets himself > a nice roomy and economic station wagoon. I'm still waiting for the SmartCar to appear in the States... > Then again, gas is so damn cheap in California .... Well, it used to be, until we invaded Iraq, presumably to get cheaper oil. Haha, the joke's on us. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Nov 4 20:24:24 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue In-Reply-To: <2700.4.20.168.121.1067975158.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > If the hypothesis is true, and cats have short retinal persistence, > on a CRT TV, cats wouldn't see the scanning per se. They'd see a rolling > band, due to the phosphor persistence which is typically between 1/5 and > 1/3 of the field rate. Hmm. If that's the case then no wonder why they think we're idiots. But then again, they're right on other counts. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Nov 4 20:34:37 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: LAME OT DISCUSSION ABOUT Re: Cats In-Reply-To: <200311041720.12428.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, J.C. Wren wrote: > I've heard that what interests the cat in the laser is the fact > that the cat is unable to focus on it, and it really bugs them. I'm no zoologist, but it seems to me that they think it's a very fast spider or something. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Nov 4 20:39:49 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial References: Message-ID: <008001c3a346$153f6420$3d7ca418@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 9:21 PM Subject: Re: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial > On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > > Ron, give him a break, he's driving one of these big useless > > Toyota SUVs, and I'm bugging him every time I'm over when he > > finaly get's rid of that fuel sucking monster and gets himself > > a nice roomy and economic station wagoon. > > I'm still waiting for the SmartCar to appear in the States... > > > Then again, gas is so damn cheap in California .... > > Well, it used to be, until we invaded Iraq, presumably to get cheaper oil. > Haha, the joke's on us. > We invaded Iraq so the OIL companies can get cheaper oil, since when do politicians do anything good for th consumer? Still prices here (Ohio) have dropped quite a bit since the summer. From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Nov 4 20:54:41 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: <008001c3a346$153f6420$3d7ca418@game> Message-ID: <6700F446-0F3B-11D8-878C-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 08:39 PM, Teo Zenios wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 9:21 PM > Subject: Re: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial > > >> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Hans Franke wrote: >> >>> Ron, give him a break, he's driving one of these big useless >>> Toyota SUVs, and I'm bugging him every time I'm over when he >>> finaly get's rid of that fuel sucking monster and gets himself >>> a nice roomy and economic station wagoon. >> >> I'm still waiting for the SmartCar to appear in the States... >> >>> Then again, gas is so damn cheap in California .... >> >> Well, it used to be, until we invaded Iraq, presumably to get cheaper >> oil. >> Haha, the joke's on us. >> > > We invaded Iraq so the OIL companies can get cheaper oil, since when do > politicians do anything good for th consumer? Still prices here (Ohio) > have > dropped quite a bit since the summer. > Prices in CA are high because there is an artificial monopoly. Only about 5 companies make "California" gas with MTBE. That and the extra taxes the environmentally aware Californians put on. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Nov 4 21:17:18 2003 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: Any suggestions for cleaning yellowed computer parts? Message-ID: <200311050317.TAA04532@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > >On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Kevin Handy wrote: > >> B.Degnan wrote: >> >> > Does anyone have a secret recipe that is *safe* for cleaning >> > yellowed/stained plastic computer parts that were originally white? I >> > have had some success with various cleaning agents, but nothing >> > spectacular. -bill wilmington, delaware >> > >> You aren't going to get it back all the way to the original whiteness, >> and it depends on if it is more yellowed from "smoking" or age, but >> spraying on 409 and letting it soak for a while before wiping it off can >> greatly improve the color. It takes several repeats: keep doing it until >> the yellow stops running. > >A run through the dishwasher sometimes helps (note: sometimes). >-- Hi I've had some success rubbing with goof-off. You know, the lable cleaner stuff. Dwight From spectre at floodgap.com Tue Nov 4 21:56:18 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: from Vintage Computer Festival at "Nov 4, 3 06:21:59 pm" Message-ID: <200311050356.TAA08652@floodgap.com> > > Ron, give him a break, he's driving one of these big useless > > Toyota SUVs, and I'm bugging him every time I'm over when he > > finaly get's rid of that fuel sucking monster and gets himself > > a nice roomy and economic station wagoon. > > I'm still waiting for the SmartCar to appear in the States... Argh. You don't mean that little two-seater deal? They were a plague upon Rome (just got back from vacation), although I can't argue with their fuel economy. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Conceit causes more conversation than wit. -- LaRouchefoucauld ------------- From vcf at siconic.com Tue Nov 4 22:47:58 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: Any suggestions for cleaning yellowed computer parts? In-Reply-To: <200311050317.TAA04532@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > I've had some success rubbing with goof-off. You know, the lable > cleaner stuff. Watch out with Goof-Off. You can easily melt the plastic of the case if you apply too much or rub too much. Always apply it to a cloth first and then to the case, and then don't cause too much friction. But, to try to lighten up an entire case this way seems to be an awful lot of work. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Nov 4 22:48:23 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: <200311050356.TAA08652@floodgap.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > I'm still waiting for the SmartCar to appear in the States... > > Argh. You don't mean that little two-seater deal? They were a plague upon > Rome (just got back from vacation), although I can't argue with their > fuel economy. Those things rock! It's the perfect city car. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ernestls at attbi.com Tue Nov 4 23:14:19 2003 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000001c3a35b$ab6ffb20$6401a8c0@ernest> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of David Woyciesjes > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 11:20 AM > To: ClassicCMP > Subject: The Geek Test... > > How many of you have seen this one? > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html > > I only got a 7.88955% result... I scored a 25.x Total Geek. Questions that should have been on the test: I never top post. I prefer PHP to ASP. I know who Linus Torvalds is. I know who David Rohl is. - and I agree with him I have read The Nine Princes in Amber - the entire Amber series. I have read Ender's Game. I would rather have a Mini Cooper than a Camaro. - especially if it's an Austin "S" model. I have detoured to search for a plant in it's native environment. I have bought a Venus flytrap - and kept it alive I own a professional weather station. - and it's hooked into my computer. - and the results are displayed on my web page. I called my friends when I compiled my first Kernel. I run more than one flavor on Linux on my home computer. I have a "registered Linux user" number. - and I display it in my signature. I subscribe to OS newsgroups. - 3+ OS newsgroups. - and I know what the "Hitler Rule" is. I have argued about which is better, the Apple II or the Atari 800. I like blinkenlights. I have over clocked my CPU. I have a water cooled CPU. I use a computer rack at home. I don't buy software. I run a firewall on a 486 computer. I think Deana Troy is cute. - but I prefer 7 of 9. I have gone for more than 2 years without sex. - without realizing it. I see things and think, "I could fix that." I have posted an ad on an online dating service. I refuse to do desktop support. I would never admit to having worked in telephone IT support. I would never admit that I worked for Microsoft. - as a blue badge. I know the difference between IT and IS. From blstuart at bellsouth.net Tue Nov 4 23:11:03 2003 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (Brian L. Stuart) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... Message-ID: <3FA88667.FAD8997F@bellsouth.net> > How many of you have seen this one? > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html > I only got a 7.88955% result... 52.66272% - Super Geek The thing that troubles me the most is that I think I'm more annoyed by the fact that there weren't more deeply technical questions so that I could score higher than by the fact that I scored high enough to be labeled a "Super Geek." Boy, it must be getting late. That sounded too much like Super Freak. Now I'll have that song stuck in my head for the rest of the night... Brian L. Stuart From nico at farumdata.dk Wed Nov 5 01:05:18 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: CP/M to DOS conversion programs References: Message-ID: <001b01c3a36b$2c111110$2201a8c0@finans> From: "Steven N. Hirsch" > > > Are there any PC (DOS) programs that can > > > > > > 1) Read a CP/M disk > > > 2) Save the contents, including the boot tracks to a DOS file (or files) > > > 3) Format a CP/M disk > > > 4) Write these files back to the disk, including the boot tracks? > > > > > > > Yes, IMWIN. > I assume that if I have to ask the price of IMWIN, I cannot afford it? You would be right, if you would have to buy it. However, as I have the hardware already available, and it has been paid for by "commercial" conversion jobs, I have no problem with helping people out, as long as I am not flooded by it. In your case, it could be considered "last resort", as I am located in Europe. Nico From Innfogra at aol.com Wed Nov 5 00:53:01 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: Any suggestions for cleaning yellowed computer parts? Message-ID: <46.40cb6a46.2cd9f84d@aol.com> In a message dated 11/4/03 8:47:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, vcf@siconic.com writes: > Watch out with Goof-Off. You can easily melt the plastic of the case if > you apply too much or rub too much. Always apply it to a cloth first and > then to the case, and then don't cause too much friction. > > I find goof off works for removal of some yellowing. It does dissolve the surface of most plastics. After about 5 - 10 seconds of application I use ethyl alcohol to stop the reaction (Wipe with another saturated cloth). Seems to neutralize the Goof Off. You have to be quick. Doesn't work on clear plastic. Paxton Astoria, OR From ian_primus at yahoo.com Tue Nov 4 19:35:35 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <5A5FB958-0F30-11D8-8170-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 02:20 PM, David Woyciesjes wrote: > How many of you have seen this one? > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html > > I only got a 7.88955% result... > > -- > --- Dave Woyciesjes > --- ICQ# 905818 Heh, I got 47.92899% - Super Geek. I've also got a few more things that should be on the list... - You have at least one computer that is more than 10 years old. ...on the internet. ...that you use daily. - You have more than ten different types of magnetic media. ...not including audio or video media. - You have some 8" floppies. ...and a computer that uses them. - The lights dim when you turn on one of your computers. ...or send something to your printer. - The keyboard on your most powerful computer is more than ten years old, and the computer is new. - You know the exact formatted capacity for more than three types of media. ...and unformatted. - You have an Atari 2600. ...and you have rolled the score on Asteroids ...twice or more. - You have repaired things that others have deemed unfixable. ...on many occasions. - The people at Radio Shack know you by name. - You know what a 7404 does. - There are at least four empty cans from a caffeinated beverage on your desk. - You have a computer that won't fit through the door. - You have ever recorded Star Trek on Umatic tape for better picture quality. - Your car has at least four extra computer parts in it. - You moved to another state, and one large moving van was filled entirely with computers. - You know _exactly_ what causes a vertical line down the center of the screen on a compact mac. - During a power outage, you rigged an Atari to run off batteries and used it with a battery powered TV. The sad thing is that all of those apply to me... Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Nov 5 01:23:40 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <5A5FB958-0F30-11D8-8170-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> References: <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net> <5A5FB958-0F30-11D8-8170-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <32911.64.169.63.74.1068017020.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I've also got a few more things that should be on the list... > - You moved to another state, and one large moving van was filled > entirely with computers. Only one large moving van full of computers? I'm not very impressed. :-) From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Nov 5 01:26:25 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <000001c3a35b$ab6ffb20$6401a8c0@ernest> References: <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net> <000001c3a35b$ab6ffb20$6401a8c0@ernest> Message-ID: <32931.64.169.63.74.1068017185.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I have argued about which is better, the Apple II or the Atari 800. Deduct points for that one, since there's no argument about it. :-) From GOOI at oce.nl Wed Nov 5 01:30:34 2003 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0E1E@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> How many of us clicked the link "This link is broken " just to see ... now that's geeky! - Henk (just a "geek" with 17.xxxxx% :-( > -----Original Message----- > From: David Woyciesjes [mailto:dwoyciesjes@comcast.net] > Sent: dinsdag 4 november 2003 20:20 > To: ClassicCMP > Subject: The Geek Test... > > > How many of you have seen this one? > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html > > I only got a 7.88955% result... > > -- > --- Dave Woyciesjes > --- ICQ# 905818 From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Nov 5 01:57:06 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0E1E@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Message-ID: <002601c3a372$67fda060$b03fcd18@WaynePC> 34.714% - Total Geek Thought it would be lower. Oh well. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Nov 5 03:25:10 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net> References: <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <5e2e854c4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net> David Woyciesjes wrote: > How many of you have seen this one? > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html > > I only got a 7.88955% result... 22.48521% - Geek. I don't know if that's a compliment or an insult ;) Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, Ethernet (Acorn AEH62), http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 8xCD, framegrabber, Teletext Failsafe - blows every part of the circuit except the fuse From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Nov 5 03:47:06 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: Cats In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA8D52A.29004.657716BD@localhost> > Hi Lolly's.... > Is this a cat & hummer club???? > I always tought it was about computers... It's geeky! H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org Wed Nov 5 03:55:31 2003 From: pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: Geek Tests In-Reply-To: <3FA8D52A.29004.657716BD@localhost> References: <3FA8D52A.29004.657716BD@localhost> Message-ID: <3FA8C913.9010101@retrobbs.org> 45.36489% - Super Geek for me. Not much of a shock here. I mean, look at my email address... From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Nov 5 04:20:31 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: <200311050356.TAA08652@floodgap.com> References: from Vintage Computer Festival at "Nov 4, 3 06:21:59 pm" Message-ID: <3FA8DCFF.1598.6595ACE1@localhost> > Cameron: > > > Ron, give him a break, he's driving one of these big useless > > > Toyota SUVs, and I'm bugging him every time I'm over when he > > > finaly get's rid of that fuel sucking monster and gets himself > > > a nice roomy and economic station wagoon. > > I'm still waiting for the SmartCar to appear in the States... > Argh. You don't mean that little two-seater deal? They were a plague upon > Rome (just got back from vacation), although I can't argue with their > fuel economy. Maybe, the Italians always loved to drive small stuff. The Smart is a perfect example for an emotional car. Either you'll love it or you hate it. there is no indifference. I love it. you got a better seat feeling than in an E-calss Mercedes. Shure, the car ends right in front of the windshield and just two feet behing your heed, but you don't feel it (most cars don't let you see the hood anyway, and who turns around while driving). Fuel Economy isn't as good as it may seam, since AC and all the little gadgets need their power, so gasmilage is only between 50 and 70 mpg (city/highway). Nonetheless its extreme fun to drive it. Due the low wight and relative high powered engine (50+ HP) it drives like a cart. And it's even a great ClassicComp vehicle, at least if you collect small stuff. The 'trunk' (as i tried) is good for two PETs, two 8050 dual drives, two 3022 printers and a bunch of manuals, diskboxes and so on :) And best of all, the new Roadster is a blast ... finaly again a new super small fun car, like the old 60's britisch cars... Ron: > > Then again, gas is so damn cheap in California .... > Yikes! I escaped CA, and one of the reasons was the prices! > But I guess CA is cheaper than most of europe ;^) At the moment it's acceptable in Germany: about 1.10 Euro per liter regular or 1.20 for premium), so make that five bucks a gallon. And Germany isn't even the most expensive place in Europe. If I remember the British prices correctly, which are quite higher, I don't understand why there was still oposition to Blairs heroic support for the war ... *G* > Prices in CA are high because there is an artificial monopoly. > Only about 5 companies make "California" gas with MTBE. That > and the extra taxes the environmentally aware Californians > put on. Are you shure that there are more companies in the US at all doing gas? I'm not talking about the label, since refineing business and selling are not connected in any way. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Nov 5 04:21:06 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Those things rock! It's the perfect city car. Until a real car (tm) hits you. --f From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Nov 5 04:25:18 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: Outphaseing of technology (was: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial) In-Reply-To: References: <3FA8151F.13553.6288ECB0@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Nov 4, 3 09:07:43 pm Message-ID: <3FA8DE1E.27188.659A0EF3@localhost> > > reciver and display... No more fast modifiying of a TV set into a computer > > CRT. All the knowledge will be worthless in 20-30 years, when there are > > just _no_new_tubes_ available... > I _made_ an (admitedly poor quality) CRT when I was at school, using the > equipment in the school physics lab. Are you seriously suggesting that > some hacker can't do better in his home workshop and make a useable CRT? Ok, now it gets slicky ... Tony, you're maybe one of the few that can somehow proof me wrong, but I doubt that anybody will come around with a homegrown 14" B/W CRT to replace a damaged for any 1970s terminal I have, nor with any colour CRT, not even a rather rough one like used in the IIgs colour screen. I don't doubt that it's possible with home grown development and tools to build a diplay tuge able to show of something, but from there, until todays CRTs is quite some way. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Nov 5 04:32:38 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0E1E@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Message-ID: <3FA8DFD6.13816.65A0C620@localhost> > How many of us clicked the link "This link is broken " > just to see ... now that's geeky! It's not only the 'broken Link, but his real 404 page ... just try around, he has setup pages for most errors. > - Henk (just a "geek" with 17.xxxxx% :-( H. (what if I would like Startreck and Tolkin?) -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From browe58 at comcast.net Wed Nov 5 05:42:26 2003 From: browe58 at comcast.net (Bill Rowe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: hp 75000 Message-ID: i have an hp 75000 mainframe w/ plug ins. if anyone is interested, please contact me directly for details at: browe58@comcast.net. thanx. bill From huw.davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Wed Nov 5 06:15:52 2003 From: huw.davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net> References: <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1068033986.6102.6.camel@newton.gb.davies.net.au> On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 06:20, David Woyciesjes wrote: > How many of you have seen this one? > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html > > I only got a 7.88955% result... I can't decide if my 44.3787% is good or bad... -- Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au Melbourne | "If soccer was meant to be played in the Australia | air, the sky would be painted green" From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Wed Nov 5 06:46:10 2003 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <002601c3a372$67fda060$b03fcd18@WaynePC> Message-ID: <000b01c3a39a$ca464600$4d4d2c0a@atx> 31.36095% - Total Geek Andy From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Nov 5 07:06:50 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: OT: Id this Teletype machine In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031104201134.00800100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031104201134.00800100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <2302.65.123.179.146.1068037610.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> You might have a Kleinschmit TTY there. Don't know much about them, but they were an "also ran" supplier of TTY machines, but only a fraction of what Ma Bell/Teletype made and sold. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO > Last week I drug home a Teletype machine just seconds before it was > going to be tossed in a dumpster but I can't identify it. It LOOKS like a > model 28 KSR Compact as seen at > but the only id > tag that I can find on it says TT-187A/UG. Inside is another tag that says > MX-1114A/UG Keyboard. Can anyone id it from those numbers? Also found a > second piece that looks the M28 Transmitter-Distributer shownon the same > page. The label in it says CY-871/UG TT-69A/UG. I need help id'ing this > one > too. The property on it says that it came from McDonald Douglas and that > it's a "reader, tape". > > Joe > > From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Wed Nov 5 07:21:03 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: <3FA8DCFF.1598.6595ACE1@localhost> References: <200311050356.TAA08652@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20031105131718.039fc390@pop.freeserve.net> At 11:20 05/11/2003 +0100, Hans Franke wrote: > > Yikes! I escaped CA, and one of the reasons was the prices! > > But I guess CA is cheaper than most of europe ;^) > >At the moment it's acceptable in Germany: about 1.10 Euro >per liter regular or 1.20 for premium), so make that five >bucks a gallon. And Germany isn't even the most expensive >place in Europe. If I remember the British prices correctly, Well, a tank of diesel just cost me GBP 0.769/litre (about $4.88/US Gallon) and standard unleaded petrol is about the same price, depending where you get it from. Rob. 31% geek .. (and my wifde came out at 18% and I'd not say she was) From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Nov 5 07:44:49 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA90CE1.23064.6650BAAF@localhost> > > Those things rock! It's the perfect city car. > Until a real car (tm) hits you. Well, I assume you'll agree that a large S-class Mercedes is supposed to be a 'real car (tm)', a German Magazine did a 50% (ok, for the smart it was mor like 70) fronal between a smart and a S-class Merc - after all, both are Mercedes designs ... No injuries on either sides - except that repairing the Merc would have cost more than the Smart was worth at first :) The thing isn't the usual crapy cheap design, using outdated engines and other crap, but a total new one. And unlike most other small cars, it's not a striped down version to save cost (it's rather expensive, almost like a 'real car (tm)'), but minimalized ... it's everything in there, just made easy to use and simplified. The Smart dashboard is like a Mac UI (or Cannon Cat) compared to a DOS commandline in 'real car (tm)'. At first I thought a lot is missing, but then I realized every function needed is there. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From rhudson at cnonline.net Wed Nov 5 08:24:22 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: <3FA8DCFF.1598.6595ACE1@localhost> Message-ID: On Wednesday, November 5, 2003, at 04:20 AM, Hans Franke wrote: > >> Cameron: >>>> Ron, give him a break, he's driving one of these big useless >>>> Toyota SUVs, and I'm bugging him every time I'm over when he >>>> finaly get's rid of that fuel sucking monster and gets himself >>>> a nice roomy and economic station wagoon. > >>> I'm still waiting for the SmartCar to appear in the States... > >> Argh. You don't mean that little two-seater deal? They were a plague >> upon >> Rome (just got back from vacation), although I can't argue with their >> fuel economy. > > Maybe, the Italians always loved to drive small stuff. The > Smart is a perfect example for an emotional car. Either you'll > love it or you hate it. there is no indifference. I love it. > you got a better seat feeling than in an E-calss Mercedes. > Shure, the car ends right in front of the windshield and just > two feet behing your heed, but you don't feel it (most cars don't > let you see the hood anyway, and who turns around while driving). > > Fuel Economy isn't as good as it may seam, since AC and all the > little gadgets need their power, so gasmilage is only between > 50 and 70 mpg (city/highway). > > Nonetheless its extreme fun to drive it. Due the low wight and > relative high powered engine (50+ HP) it drives like a cart. > And it's even a great ClassicComp vehicle, at least if you > collect small stuff. The 'trunk' (as i tried) is good for two > PETs, two 8050 dual drives, two 3022 printers and a bunch of > manuals, diskboxes and so on :) > > And best of all, the new Roadster is a blast ... finaly again > a new super small fun car, like the old 60's britisch cars... > > Ron: >>> Then again, gas is so damn cheap in California .... > >> Yikes! I escaped CA, and one of the reasons was the prices! >> But I guess CA is cheaper than most of europe ;^) > > At the moment it's acceptable in Germany: about 1.10 Euro > per liter regular or 1.20 for premium), so make that five > bucks a gallon. And Germany isn't even the most expensive > place in Europe. If I remember the British prices correctly, > which are quite higher, I don't understand why there was > still oposition to Blairs heroic support for the war ... *G* > >> Prices in CA are high because there is an artificial monopoly. >> Only about 5 companies make "California" gas with MTBE. That >> and the extra taxes the environmentally aware Californians >> put on. > > Are you shure that there are more companies in the US at all > doing gas? I'm not talking about the label, since refineing > business and selling are not connected in any way. California law requires(ed) a specific oxygenate, MTBE = cleans up some gasses from exhaust but gets in to the water and is very hard to get out. Only a few refiners mix that particular mix. They raised prices when the started putting the MTBE in. And now that the law has changed they say they will have to raise prices to take it out. > > Gruss > H. > -- > VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ > > From cb at mythtech.net Wed Nov 5 09:43:51 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: Hard drive on a card Message-ID: I've got a Kalok hard drive on an ISA card available. Its marked as a Kalok KL330 on the drive, and the card assembly is marked as a CARD30R. It should be a 32 MB drive. I'm nearly 100% positive that this drive does NOT work. But if anyone wants it to play with, its available. Just cover shipping costs from 07450 (its somewhat heavy, so figure on 2 or 3 lbs packed). -chris From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Nov 5 10:27:11 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: New find: Digital LA424 MultiPrinter Message-ID: Hiyas, Yay! Today wasa good day... besides having (finally) collected some of the VAXen I was supposed to pick up last week, I also got around to grabbing the LA424 I bought online. Nice printer! Came with everything included, *including* the DS200/DL they were using as a printerserver :) and the VT420 which was its console. Also, a (still sealed) box with ribbons. Now.. to find its manual. Anyone? (oheyah, and a box of wide fanfold ;-) Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com Wed Nov 5 10:36:25 2003 From: bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <3FA8195B.1332.62997645@localhost> References: <3FA8195B.1332.62997645@localhost> Message-ID: <3FA92709.5000900@yahoo.com> 50.4931% - Super Geek Whew! Just below Jay and Hans... That's good, I suppose... Hans Franke wrote: >>Well, 60,74951% - Extreme Geek >> >>Now, is that good or bad? >> >>And who the heck is Jeanine Salla? >> Another item for the test: I know how to use Google. :-) Bill From vcf at siconic.com Wed Nov 5 10:42:57 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <1068033986.6102.6.camel@newton.gb.davies.net.au> Message-ID: On 5 Nov 2003, Huw Davies wrote: > On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 06:20, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > How many of you have seen this one? > > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html > > > > I only got a 7.88955% result... > > I can't decide if my 44.3787% is good or bad... We must've been separated at birth. That is the exact score I got(!) I wanted it to be higher but then I thought about the kind of person I would be if it was and then was a bit upset that it wasn't much lower. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ian_primus at yahoo.com Wed Nov 5 10:46:57 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Mr Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <32911.64.169.63.74.1068017020.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20031105164657.18565.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Smith wrote: > > I've also got a few more things that should be on > the list... > > - You moved to another state, and one large moving > van was filled > > entirely with computers. > > Only one large moving van full of computers? I'm > not very impressed. :-) > Well, that was before I got the Prime... But, at the moment, the Prime is the only "big iron" that I own. I hope to solve that soon, however, as I am currently on a 'VAX Hunt'. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Nov 5 10:57:29 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <20031105164657.18565.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > > - You moved to another state, and one large moving > van was filled > > entirely with computers. > > Only one large moving van full of computers? I'm > not very impressed. :-) Hah. I am moving back to the U.S. end of next year. I did that before (in 1993), and then, I used one small seafreight container with my stuff. Now... there's going to be two of the large ones (18 meters I believe the guy said), and of the 'special extra-high' kind, which will stack 3 full crates otop. Meaning, it can be stuffed with all the VAX 4000 boxes (BA440's), each in its own wooden crate, and stacked 3 high. Still, they figured (yeah, they were here ;-) I will need at least one of the large ones, and a smaller one, and "if you keep it up at this pace, sir", I will be needing two of the large ones, at least. *argh* Anyone interested in a (free) Masscomp system w/manuals? :) (no, we WONT ship it to ya..) --f From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Nov 5 09:54:20 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: <3FA90CE1.23064.6650BAAF@localhost>; from Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de on Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 14:44:49 %z References: <3FA90CE1.23064.6650BAAF@localhost> Message-ID: <20031105155420.GA3446839@MrPomeroy2> On 2003.11.05 14:44 Hans Franke wrote: [Smart car] > At first I thought a lot is missing, but then I realized every > function needed is there. It is missing one critical function: Loading space. ;-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Nov 5 11:17:11 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... References: <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net> <5e2e854c4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <3FA93097.2030809@jetnet.ab.ca> Philip Pemberton wrote: > In message <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net> > David Woyciesjes wrote: >>How many of you have seen this one? >>http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html >> >> I only got a 7.88955% result... > > 22.48521% - Geek. I don't know if that's a compliment or an insult ;) > > Later. Well I am 100% fan of computers with da blinking lights. I use computers I don't worship them. Mark me down as 0% geek, I don't view myself that way. I just have enginering style interests, like old computers old hi-fi and live steam. Right now I am trying to design right a a small vacumm tube amp that I can afford, because I can't find what I want on open market. So far my $200 US savings needs more $$$. I don't have time to do it twice,so I want to do it right the first time. Any tube experts out there, as the power supply is giving me problems. Ben. From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Wed Nov 5 11:23:59 2003 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: PDP-8/I memory problem References: <200311051408.JAA28615@parse.com> Message-ID: <3FA9322F.9FAC173F@msm.umr.edu> Robert Krten wrote: > > > If I deposit 7777, I can examine and get 3777. This machine has 8k of > core, and the problem is the same in both 4k banks. > Cheers, > -RK > > when you read memory, are here any locations where you get back a 1 bit in this position from residual junk data in the core? might be a clue what is wrong with deposit vs rad. can you examine other registers from the front panel and change that bit, or is it just the core? if you can examine the registers, IIRC, can you put a program in there to load a constant and deposit it in core? This would exercise a different path to the core, though I know that the front panel is probbly doing a step to do the deposit. I may be crossing wires with the pdp11 as far as the registers being addressible in memory, if so I apologize, it's been a long time, and I have no handy manual to verify this for you. Jim > > From ernestls at attbi.com Wed Nov 5 12:04:41 2003 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: Any suggestions for cleaning yellowed computer parts? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c3a3c7$492a3c70$6401a8c0@ernest> > A run through the dishwasher sometimes helps (note: sometimes). Yes. Beware on this sometimes, too. I ran a Coco-3 case through the washer and it cleaned the case very well but it also washed out the colors on the label. Now, the case and label have a uniform washed out look to them. Also, I've noticed that sometimes, running a case through the dishwasher doesn't always clean thick grime off. It only bleaches it so that it looks like it's gone, and the drying heat can bake and harden the grease so that it's more difficult to remove. I still prefer to use a sink full of hot soapy water, and a medium stiff paint brush, and lots of elbow grease. The brush gets down into the cracks and crevasses, and any texturing on the case. I also prefer this method because I enjoy the act of scrubbing everything up. I like to see the cleaned piece emerge from years grime and dirt, and the work gives me time to think. A toothbrush and a facial buff pad are also useful. Short of painting, there is no way to restore a sun damaged case that I've found. I have nothing against painting an old computer case, since many of them were painted to begin with -even the plastic case were often painted. From ohh at drizzle.com Wed Nov 5 12:32:40 2003 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: PDP-8/I memory problem In-Reply-To: <3FA9322F.9FAC173F@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: Somehow I missed Robert Krten's original post, but I saw two lines quoted, and since minimum-information puzzles are fun I'll quote it for reply. Forgive me if I'm missing obvious clues that were presented in the original. :) > > If I deposit 7777, I can examine and get 3777. This machine has 8k of > > core, and the problem is the same in both 4k banks. In _both_ core stacks? Well, there goes the obvious inhibit-driver answer... If it were me, I'd be tempted to stick a probe onto the output of the MB00 flip-flop (M220, E/F 34, pin U2 of the E side) and see if it were spitting out usable information or nonsense. If it's nonsense, you've probably found your culprit. If it's being sensible, I'd follow the signal to the inhibit drivers (and perhaps to the front panel as well) to verify it's going where it needs to go. (Does that signal go to the inhibit drivers directly? It may go to the memory extension control and get rebuffered there first, but alas I don't have my extended-memory-control drawings handy... If the MB00 signal _does_ get rebuffered between the original F/F and the inhibit drivers, that rebuffering device would be an even more likely place to look for a problem.) Let me know if this helps. I'm curious now. [I suppose it's possible that the bit 0 inhibit drivers of _both_ stacks could independently be locking themselves on, but it seems unlikely. :) ] [I suppose your MB00 panel light could have burned itself out at an inconvenient moment as well, but that seems entirely too simplistic an answer. :) :) ] -O.- From will_kranz at SoftHome.net Tue Nov 4 10:43:47 2003 From: will_kranz at SoftHome.net (will kranz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:51 2005 Subject: PDP-11/44 want list Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20031104114347.00765860@pop.earthlink.net> John On Tue Oct 8 20:11:58 2002, you posted about your 11/44. I was searching for help with the H7140 power supply when I came across your post. I recently tried to power up a system I got a couple years ago, and have a flashing 'DC On' indicator. I don't know how serious this is, or if I might be able to repair/adjust it with some guidance. Suggestions? I have no documentation on the power supply. Thanks. From PLancashire at columbia.com Tue Nov 4 11:05:00 2003 From: PLancashire at columbia.com (Lancashire, Pete) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: PDP-11/44 want list Message-ID: <88A237F0F2A83949BB50CA3CFB577B37011C78A8@US-TRILLIUM.columbia.csc> i evaluated the first 11/44's for use in a Tektronix product, even then we had some power supply failures. From my foggy memory, you may want to check, the power supply connector for corrosion, then check the status of the caps. Its not going to be easy to test the big ones if you don't have the equipment. Unfortunately i lost the complete set of schematics in a fire. Still think i have a CIS board which may want to get rid of -pete -----Original Message----- From: will kranz [mailto:will_kranz@SoftHome.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 8:44 AM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: PDP-11/44 want list John On Tue Oct 8 20:11:58 2002, you posted about your 11/44. I was searching for help with the H7140 power supply when I came across your post. I recently tried to power up a system I got a couple years ago, and have a flashing 'DC On' indicator. I don't know how serious this is, or if I might be able to repair/adjust it with some guidance. Suggestions? I have no documentation on the power supply. Thanks. From oceanid987 at yahoo.com Tue Nov 4 11:06:18 2003 From: oceanid987 at yahoo.com (david pasha) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: hp 2100 and 7900A disc Message-ID: <20031104170618.32387.qmail@web60005.mail.yahoo.com> hello, I see http://simh.trailing-edge.com but i can't work with similator of 2100. i have hp 2100S computer and hp 7900A disc drive. i haven't backup heads of 7900a and i want provide them. i have some program in exe format on 7900A disc,i want run them on pc but i don't know any way for run them on pc. i study about CPU,DMA,I/O system of hp 2100 and 7900A disc drive too. i doing work now to make my designed I/O circuit ,it input in pc's ISA and work like 7900A for 2100S 's I/O associate disc, but some work remain to complet this subject. i want write assemblly program (and input in memory of 2100) for read sector by sector data of 7900A with selected code 0 and write them on my I/O with selected code 1 and write another C program on pc for work with I/O and file this data. i think that if i can do it i shall write similator program and when decode I/O instruction with DMA,disc drive I/O selected code load addressed data in file to array (virtual RAM)in similator program. but i know that i need help very much. i don't know many things about your similator , i hope possible that i can work with your similator and run my 2100 program on similator. please send me any information that you think it is good. please help me. my name is mehdi . my email : oceanid987@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue Nov 4 14:07:36 2003 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA3FB4@MAIL10> Oooh, boy: 34.12229% - Total Geek Mom will be proud :-) -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of David Woyciesjes Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 2:20 PM To: ClassicCMP Subject: The Geek Test... How many of you have seen this one? http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html I only got a 7.88955% result... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From kelly at fergason.com Tue Nov 4 16:37:14 2003 From: kelly at fergason.com (Kelly Fergason) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <001001c3a319$4ccbf250$3d7ca418@game> References: <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net> <001001c3a319$4ccbf250$3d7ca418@game> Message-ID: <3FA82A1A.6090604@fergason.com> 52.66272% - Super Geek hmm, must be all the useless trivia... Kelly Teo Zenios wrote: >21.2% > >Geek > >Must be because I am an engineer > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "David Woyciesjes" >To: "ClassicCMP" >Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 2:20 PM >Subject: The Geek Test... > > > > >>How many of you have seen this one? >>http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html >> >>I only got a 7.88955% result... >> >>-- >>--- Dave Woyciesjes >>--- ICQ# 905818 >> >> > > > > From ccraft at netgenius.org Tue Nov 4 21:31:51 2003 From: ccraft at netgenius.org (Chris Craft) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <01fe01c3a30e$731a9f20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net> <01fe01c3a30e$731a9f20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20031105033157.740A61CB9F9@mamacass.springsips.com> Drat... I didn't get the highest score! 53.84615% - Super Geek Cheers, Chris, RetroComputing Nut On Tuesday 04 November 2003 13:01, Jay West wrote: > My results (bored at work today) : 54.63511% - Super Geek - someone please > shoot me :\ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Woyciesjes" > To: "ClassicCMP" > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 1:20 PM > Subject: The Geek Test... > > > How many of you have seen this one? > > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html > > > > I only got a 7.88955% result... > > > > -- > > --- Dave Woyciesjes > > --- ICQ# 905818 > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From root at parse.com Wed Nov 5 08:08:52 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: PDP-8/I memory problem Message-ID: <200311051408.JAA28615@parse.com> Hi folks, I'm in the process of restoring my 8/I, have run into a little problem with the core memory, and am out of ideas on what to do next. The symptom is that I can deposit into the core memory now (after replacing a few cards and a core plane), but I can only deposit 11 bits; the 12th bit remains 0. If I deposit 7777, I can examine and get 3777. This machine has 8k of core, and the problem is the same in both 4k banks. Here's what I've done so far to try and eliminate / narrow down the problem -- any further suggestions are most welcome! Swapped G228 A36/B36 Swapped G228 B36/B37 Swapped G021 A31/A32 Swapped G221 C37/C38 Swapped G221 D37/D38 Swapped two edge M220's Swapped G624 A38/B38 (The G221 swaps may have been related to an earlier problem, which I've since fixed) None of these swaps yielded any change in the problem... Since it affects both banks, I'm assuming it must be a problem in some common circuitry. Just so as I'm not totally embarrasing myself, the 4000 bit (the LEFT-most bit) is MB00, right, and not MB11? :-) This whole MSB = 0 and LSB = 11 is very confusing :-) Thanks! Cheers, -RK -- Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! From PLancashire at columbia.com Wed Nov 5 12:10:55 2003 From: PLancashire at columbia.com (Lancashire, Pete) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: Any suggestions for cleaning yellowed computer parts? Message-ID: <88A237F0F2A83949BB50CA3CFB577B37CE1271@US-TRILLIUM.columbia.csc> don't do the dry/sanitize cycle ! or you may get a Salvador Dali case when you are done. -----Original Message----- From: Ernest [mailto:ernestls@attbi.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 10:05 AM To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: RE: Any suggestions for cleaning yellowed computer parts? > A run through the dishwasher sometimes helps (note: sometimes). Yes. Beware on this sometimes, too. I ran a Coco-3 case through the washer and it cleaned the case very well but it also washed out the colors on the label. Now, the case and label have a uniform washed out look to them. Also, I've noticed that sometimes, running a case through the dishwasher doesn't always clean thick grime off. It only bleaches it so that it looks like it's gone, and the drying heat can bake and harden the grease so that it's more difficult to remove. I still prefer to use a sink full of hot soapy water, and a medium stiff paint brush, and lots of elbow grease. The brush gets down into the cracks and crevasses, and any texturing on the case. I also prefer this method because I enjoy the act of scrubbing everything up. I like to see the cleaned piece emerge from years grime and dirt, and the work gives me time to think. A toothbrush and a facial buff pad are also useful. Short of painting, there is no way to restore a sun damaged case that I've found. I have nothing against painting an old computer case, since many of them were painted to begin with -even the plastic case were often painted. From INNERCTYCMP at aol.com Wed Nov 5 12:26:58 2003 From: INNERCTYCMP at aol.com (INNERCTYCMP@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: vax station keyboards Message-ID: <12e.34666cf6.2cda9af2@aol.com> have available (9) pct710 keyboards use with the vaxstation systems if interested please reply see pic thanks george ics computers From CyndeM at vulcan.com Wed Nov 5 12:34:07 2003 From: CyndeM at vulcan.com (Cynde Moya) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... Message-ID: Well, I'm surprised to be only : 39.44773% - Major Geek But at least i'm a FEMALE GEEK! Cynde Moya, MLIS, PhD(c) From george.morten at csuci.edu Wed Nov 5 09:29:39 2003 From: george.morten at csuci.edu (Morten, George) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: Question Message-ID: <57B5B578CC7F9C4E91F6909EA9FC42A90518F5@mail.csuci.edu> I came across your email on the internet and was wondering if you might be able to help me. My wife is a court reporter of about 20 years. She is using an Xscribe XEC5. Not unlike my wife and I the cpu is getting a little long in the teeth. It is starting to have a lot of problems and we can't find anyone who can work on it. I noticed in your email that you had found and old XEC5 do you know how we might purchase such a unit. Or do you know anything about how I might find a manual on how to install a printer on the XEC5? I know a fair amount about computers but the XEC5 is an animal of a different color. Any help you can offer will be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Dr. George Morten Director of Office of C.H.A.P.s Career, Health, Accommodations, and Personal Counseling Service California State University Channel Islands One University Drive, Camarillo CA 93012-8599 805-437-8510 (phone), 805-437-8529 (fax) george.morten@csuci.edu From root at parse.com Wed Nov 5 13:07:47 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: PDP-8/I memory problem (fwd) Message-ID: <200311051907.OAA13998@parse.com> Forwarded message: > From: jim > > Robert Krten wrote: > > > If I deposit 7777, I can examine and get 3777. This machine has 8k of > > core, and the problem is the same in both 4k banks. > > Cheers, > > -RK > > when you read memory, are here any locations where you get back a 1 bit > in this position from residual junk data in the core? Nope, unfortunately. I've been running "junk programs" and it looks like they scribbled all over memory; I looked through the first thousand or so memory locations, hoping for a 4000 bit, but no luck :-( > might be a clue what is wrong with deposit vs rad. > > can you examine other registers from the front panel and change that bit, or > is it just the core? No other registers are accessible from the front panel -- you're think of the PDP-11 :-) > if you can examine the registers, IIRC, can you put a program in there to load > a constant and deposit it in core? This would exercise a different path to the > core, though I know that the front panel is probbly doing a step to do the > deposit. > > I may be crossing wires with the pdp11 as far as the registers being > addressible in > memory, if so I apologize, it's been a long time, and I have no handy manual to > verify > this for you. No problemo; appreciate any help I can get :-) Cheers, -RK -- Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! From root at parse.com Wed Nov 5 13:10:19 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: PDP-8/I memory problem In-Reply-To: from "O. Sharp" at Nov 05, 2003 10:32:40 AM Message-ID: <200311051910.OAA07760@parse.com> O. Sharp sez... > > Somehow I missed Robert Krten's original post, but I saw two lines > quoted, and since minimum-information puzzles are fun I'll quote it for > reply. Forgive me if I'm missing obvious clues that were presented in > the original. :) > > > > If I deposit 7777, I can examine and get 3777. This machine has 8k of > > > core, and the problem is the same in both 4k banks. > > In _both_ core stacks? Well, there goes the obvious inhibit-driver > answer... Yup, both core stacks the same... > If it were me, I'd be tempted to stick a probe onto the output of > the MB00 flip-flop (M220, E/F 34, pin U2 of the E side) and see if it > were spitting out usable information or nonsense. If it's nonsense, > you've probably found your culprit. If it's being sensible, I'd follow > the signal to the inhibit drivers (and perhaps to the front panel as > well) to verify it's going where it needs to go. I've swapped the M220 cards; plus the MB output goes to the front panel, and it looks good on the front panel when I deposit. > (Does that signal go to the inhibit drivers directly? It may go to the > memory extension control and get rebuffered there first, but alas I > don't have my extended-memory-control drawings handy... If the MB00 > signal _does_ get rebuffered between the original F/F and the inhibit > drivers, that rebuffering device would be an even more likely place to > look for a problem.) Nope; looks like it goes direct to the drivers. I also checked the line coming back the other way, and it goes direct into the M220 card. > Let me know if this helps. I'm curious now. > > [I suppose it's possible that the bit 0 inhibit drivers of _both_ > stacks could independently be locking themselves on, but it seems > unlikely. :) ] Swapped inhibit drivers with "known good ones", and the problem persisted the same way... > [I suppose your MB00 panel light could have burned itself out at an > inconvenient moment as well, but that seems entirely too simplistic an > answer. :) :) ] Nope; panel light works :-) Cheers, -RK -- Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Nov 5 13:23:40 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: References: <20031105164657.18565.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3FA95C4C.25145.6786F459@localhost> > > > - You moved to another state, and one large moving > > van was filled > > > entirely with computers. > > Only one large moving van full of computers? I'm > > not very impressed. :-) > Hah. I am moving back to the U.S. end of next year. I did that > before (in 1993), and then, I used one small seafreight container > with my stuff. I guess a question like 'did you ever need more than 1 - 2 - 3 26' trucks to move a single computer of yours' :) I think I will have a mark on there - This weekend I'll haul the last of the 3 moving trucks of my Robot .) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Nov 5 13:27:30 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: ebay question Message-ID: <008c01c3a3d2$dabec1a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I have a couple questions about ebay/paypal, and figured some folks on the list here might know the "straight scoop". 1) If some seller sets up an auction as private (yet it still shows up on the listings) - the deal is that no one can see who bid on it, or who is currently the high bidder. In this set up, how can I be sure the seller isn't bidding on his own auction to drive up the price? He's taunting me I bet demmit! heh 2) Hypothetically, say I sell an item on Ebay for... oh... $2500.00. The guy could pay me via paypal, or he could send me a cashiers check. Does Paypal report transactions to the IRS? Or more importantly, if I sell items on ebay all year... do I have to track all that and report to IRS? Never really thought of it cause it probably isn't much money anyways. But I am curious if ebay and/or paypal reports to the IRS. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Nov 5 13:44:57 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... In-Reply-To: References: <3FA6C95D.15DD2D2D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20031105193903.GB15492@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Vintage Computer Festival, from writings of Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 09:09:03PM -0800: > Well, you can educate them and tell them that if they work, come with > system software and complete hardware manuals, then $300 is reasonable. > Otherwise, pfeh... If that's a Dynabyte 5100, there should be three separate units (chasis): CPU, floppy drives and hard drive. Also, the documentation should be fairly substantial: a few thickish three-ring binders (white covers with orange and black lettering) for hardware and software documentation. Of course, if this is a Dynabyte 5200, then it should all be in one chassis, unless some sort of expansion chasis is being used. I seem to recall that the smaller 5200 system, which I think was a single chasis, about the same size as a single 5100 chasis. The 5100, used two 5-1/4" floppy drives and weird formatting, and the one I saw in a manual had a wood veneer covering part of the chasis... probably ran CP/M instead of MP/M-II. My 5100, alas, is just the insides placed in an aftermarket chasis. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From ohh at drizzle.com Wed Nov 5 14:32:10 2003 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: PDP-8/I memory problem In-Reply-To: <200311051910.OAA07760@parse.com> Message-ID: I finally got the original post, along with the followup. :) It suddenly dawned on me that I've got the memory-extension schematics on my hard drive (thank you, Mr. Kossow!), and can actually look at them without digging through the storage room... In the Memory Extension Control the MB is indeed buffered, and becomes the MCBMB (presumably "Memory-Control-Buffered Memory Buffer"). Curiously, it rebuffers the MB by taking the signal from the _other_ side of the original MB00 flip-flop - e.g., MB00(1) - and inverting it prior to use. I'm guessing this is to minimize rewiring of the backplane when installing the extended-memory option. The inversion for MB00 takes place on the M617 at B12. Does the problem move down to MB06 if you swap the M617s at B12 and B13? Similarly, is the MB00(1) signal making it from E34 pin T2 to B12 pin A1? I don't know if that'll make a difference, but I'm hoping. :) The rebuffering looks like it's primarily for extensions located off the main board, but it may affect the first two 4K stacks as well.. I'm not sure what wiring changes, if any, are done on the 8/I backplane to accomodate the memory-extension control, or whether the MB/MCBMB signals are a part of that. Anyone know of a reference for this? Anyway, that's my thought. I hope it helps, because if that isn't it the guesses start getting esoteric. :) :) -O.- From donm at cts.com Wed Nov 5 14:46:12 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: Hard drive on a card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, chris wrote: > I've got a Kalok hard drive on an ISA card available. Its marked as a > Kalok KL330 on the drive, and the card assembly is marked as a CARD30R. > > It should be a 32 MB drive. > > I'm nearly 100% positive that this drive does NOT work. But if anyone ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Pretty typical KALOK then! - don > wants it to play with, its available. Just cover shipping costs from > 07450 (its somewhat heavy, so figure on 2 or 3 lbs packed). > > > > -chris > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 5 15:06:14 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: PDP-11/44 want list In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20031104114347.00765860@pop.earthlink.net> from "will kranz" at Nov 4, 3 11:43:47 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1423 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031105/687c3c68/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 5 15:10:15 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <10311050133.ZM2225@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Nov 5, 3 01:33:15 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 899 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031105/120a99d5/attachment.ksh From michael.r.holder at boeing.com Wed Nov 5 14:43:20 2003 From: michael.r.holder at boeing.com (Holder, Michael R) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: Your web posting on surge suppressor fires Message-ID: Hi - I just stumbled upon your posting (at http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2002-December/006703.html ) from last year - can you tell me if you had any other occurrences of this, or if you had any other responses beyond those linked to your post? Our fire protection engineers tell me this has been a bit of a problem, but I am not finding much information as I look into it for a class project. Did your local fire department respond to the three you mentioned, and was there an investigation / report? Thanks - Mike Mike Holder Boeing Fire Inspection (206) 544-7950 (206) 416-2020 pager (P.S. - Would you have saved the faulty suppressors by chance? I'd be very interested in seeing one - or more!.... MH) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 5 15:16:20 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <5A5FB958-0F30-11D8-8170-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> from "Ian Primus" at Nov 4, 3 08:35:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1722 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031105/43672584/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 5 15:26:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: Outphaseing of technology (was: Hummer / Asteroids In-Reply-To: <3FA8DE1E.27188.659A0EF3@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Nov 5, 3 11:25:18 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2122 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031105/f012ef26/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 5 15:30:54 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: Question In-Reply-To: <57B5B578CC7F9C4E91F6909EA9FC42A90518F5@mail.csuci.edu> from "Morten, George" at Nov 5, 3 07:29:39 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 964 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031105/eb6aa6ff/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Nov 5 15:32:45 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <008c01c3a3d2$dabec1a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <008c01c3a3d2$dabec1a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: >2) Hypothetically, say I sell an item on Ebay for... oh... $2500.00. The guy >could pay me via paypal, or he could send me a cashiers check. Does Paypal >report transactions to the IRS? Or more importantly, if I sell items on ebay >all year... do I have to track all that and report to IRS? Never really >thought of it cause it probably isn't much money anyways. But I am curious >if ebay and/or paypal reports to the IRS. This is a very good question. Unfortunately I think there are two separate answers, with the primary one being you need to talk to someone that professionally prepares taxes. The other answer, is that this is going to vary from state to state. Having said that, I suspect this falls under "Hobby Income", and that if you don't make a profit it might not be taxable. At least I hope this is the case, as things are almost to the point that my wife can start selling chunks of my collection off, and I'm pretty sure that in the long run I won't make a profit. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Nov 5 15:15:00 2003 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: Is there a physicist in the house? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200311052144.QAA21546@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Heisenberg says we can't know the speed of and it's location > at the same time. Not quite. The uncertainty principle says that certain pairs of measurements cannot be made to a greater combined precision than a particular constant. One of those pairs is location and momentum: when a particle's position and momentum are measured, the product of the uncertainties in the measurements cannot be less than Planck's constant (loosely put; it may be Planck's constant over two pi or some such). Indeed, I've seen it said that a particle _does not have_ position and momentum to greater combined precision than permitted by the Uncertainty Principle - not just that there are "true" values we just cannot measure with certainty, but that the supposed true values do not exist. Yes, it's grossly counterintuitive. Quantum mechanics is like that. > What if I concentrate on location while timing > ie is at "5" and 1 second later it's at "35" is it not going > "30" per second? There are some problems here. First, if you aren't constantly observing , you can't tell whether it's the same . Second, your magnitudes are _way_ too high. For objects of macroscopic size - the sort of thing your physical intuition leads you to picture - the uncertanties are, quite literally, lost in the noise. For example, if you try to measure the location of a mustard seed, the uncertainty demanded by the Uncertainty Principle is so small that the molecules constantly evaporating from and being re-absorbed by the seed's surface provide plenty of uncertainty. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mtapley at swri.edu Wed Nov 5 15:49:20 2003 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: Next Cube B/W monitor feet? In-Reply-To: <20031102094017.GH87617@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> References: <20031031072716.2009.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20031031165841.04247400@mail.ubanproductions.com> <20031102094017.GH87617@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: >On Fri, Oct 31, 2003 at 04:59:47PM -0600, Tom Uban wrote: >> The rubber roller "feet" on the B/W monitor for my Next Cube >> have turned to mush. Does anyone know if there is a replacement >> available for these? > >I'd like "real" replacements, of course, but in the meantime, I've >replaced mine with bicycle handle grips, which look OK. Try this url: http://www.blackholeinc.com/specials/blackturbo.shtml and slide down to the Blue ($9.95) section. I think the "NeXT Sony 4000A Monitor Feet " are what you are after. Don't know for sure, definitely check before ordering. No connection, but satisfied customer. -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Nov 5 15:54:15 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <008c01c3a3d2$dabec1a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <008c01c3a3d2$dabec1a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20031105134026.M65305@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Jay West wrote: > I have a couple questions about ebay/paypal, and figured some folks on the > list here might know the "straight scoop". instead, we will give you a lot of uninformed opinions > 1) If some seller sets up an auction as private (yet it still shows up on > the listings) - the deal is that no one can see who bid on it, or who is > currently the high bidder. In this set up, how can I be sure the seller > isn't bidding on his own auction to drive up the price? He's taunting me I > bet demmit! heh I'm pretty sure that the eBay system would not accept a bid by the seller. Therefore, he is using a SHILL - having a friend of his make the bid. > 2) Hypothetically, say I sell an item on Ebay for... oh... $2500.00. The guy > could pay me via paypal, or he could send me a cashiers check. Does Paypal > report transactions to the IRS? Only large ones, or "suspicious" ones. The rule of thumb in the banking community USED TO be that any transaction over $10,000 had to be reported to the guvmint, as well as any "suspicious" transaction (such as a geek handling a bunch of cash) > Or more importantly, if I sell items on ebay > all year... do I have to track all that and report to IRS? Never really > thought of it cause it probably isn't much money anyways. But I am curious > if ebay and/or paypal reports to the IRS. You don't HAVE TO track it and report it, but if they find out about it, and you DIDN'T report it, then they put you in with Al Capone. ... and NO, Zane, whether you made a PROFIT is irrelevant. They want ALL income accounted for; if you didn't make a profit, then it is up to you to ALSO account for the expenses that caused that income to not be a profit. The good news is that very small amounts of income ("incidental") can often be skipped. I have no idea what the current threshold is. Yes, I will be including my income from VCF on my schedule C. (although, if that were my ONLY "self-employment" income, then it could probably be ignored.) From cb at mythtech.net Wed Nov 5 15:59:45 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: Ethernet for PS/2 Message-ID: For all you PS/2 fans out there, I've got the following MCA ethernet cards available. 3Com Etherlink/MC (AUI, BNC) 3Com Etherlink III MCA (AUI, BNC; 2 of these cards available) Artisoft 10569 (BNC, RJ-45; "Alice" chipset) Anyone want them? Price is postage plus $1.00 -chris From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Wed Nov 5 16:07:59 2003 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: ebay question References: <008c01c3a3d2$dabec1a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3FA974BF.31F7961@msm.umr.edu> Jay West wrote: > I have a couple questions about ebay/paypal, and figured some folks on the > list here might know the "straight scoop". > > 1) If some seller sets up an auction as private (yet it still shows up on > the listings) - the deal is that no one can see who bid on it, or who is > currently the high bidder. In this set up, how can I be sure the seller > isn't bidding on his own auction to drive up the price? He's taunting me I > bet demmit! heh > paypal really goes after buyers with a vengence. They don't seem to give a crap what sellers do. I bid on a camera and won the auction, but the seller gave me the finger and said "oops, too little money, i messed up not screwing you with a reserve" and ebay did absolutely nothing, and he continued vic^h^h selling to others, and does to this day. To the point you bring up, I think that the fact that they don't void out all those "you arent bidding on the real thing, we, just will tell you where to get it free" auctions for disk drives, and so forth is basically totally ignoring policing of bidders. The sellers of that crap have very high "approval" ratings, because they have gamed their ratings thru the roof. If you cannot examine the bidders, pre bid, you can't see if they are shills (usually bidders with 0 or 1 priors), or ridiculous sham bidders (with ratings make up of hundreds of $1 crap bids). I'd only bid on a private auction if you know the bidder, or can obtain real contact with them, and assess their integrity. Otherwise as you say, you'll get ripped, and Ebay will be after you, not the seller, since you are a buyer, and you (not the seller) pays ebay profits. > > 2) Hypothetically, say I sell an item on Ebay for... oh... $2500.00. The guy > could pay me via paypal, or he could send me a cashiers check. Does Paypal > report transactions to the IRS? Or more importantly, if I sell items on ebay > all year... do I have to track all that and report to IRS? Never really > thought of it cause it probably isn't much money anyways. But I am curious > if ebay and/or paypal reports to the IRS. > I think the same exemption that applies to selling personal items in a casual fashion, such as a garage sale, or penny saver sale of excess would apply. If you sell a personal item it is the profit that governs the report, not the gross sale amount. If you get a bargain Apple 1 at a garage sale, and sell it for $30,000 to Steve Jobs, you get to report the 29,995 profit as income. If you buy the $5 TI 99/4A and sell it for $50, you probably could shine on that amount, if that is all you make. Technically, you should keep books if you do enough business in this way, and file a schedule C on the results. I think as an entity backed by a bank, they have to report any single transaction to the IRS that is $10,000 or more, as do you technically. That is all the reporting I know of. Your own bank only reports your interest income, nothing else to the IRS, on ordinary banking operations. I cant think of anything that paypal is doing that is reportable compared to a bank, or to a credit card processing operation (again, no IRS reports) that is unique or regulated. All the above is my opinion, I have no professional standing to defend this, but my own experience. I personally operate all sales thru my business checkbook and account for this, so there is no question in the end what happened. Jim > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From PLancashire at columbia.com Wed Nov 5 15:26:19 2003 From: PLancashire at columbia.com (Lancashire, Pete) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: PDP-11/44 want list Message-ID: <88A237F0F2A83949BB50CA3CFB577B37CE127A@US-TRILLIUM.columbia.csc> and didn't the thing have to have a load to test it ? -pete -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 1:06 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: PDP-11/44 want list > > John > On Tue Oct 8 20:11:58 2002, you posted about your 11/44. > I was searching for help with the H7140 power supply when > I came across your post. I recently tried to power up > a system I got a couple years ago, and have a flashing 'DC On' This generally means one or more of the power rails is out-of-spec... > indicator. I don't know how serious this is, or if I might be able to > repair/adjust it with some guidance. Suggestions? I have no > documentation on the power supply. You _need_ the schematic. The H7140 is one of the most complicated PSUs you'll ever come across, and it's also dangerous inside. There's rectified mains (400V DC at essentially unlimited current -- the smoothing caps are the size of coke cans!) on screw terminals on the top of some of the PCBs. This _will_ kill you, if you touch it. Not 'might', will. Basiclaly, there are 3 switch-mode PSUs in that box. The first is a small one, used to power the PSU control circuitry. The second provides the +5V and +/-15V logic supply rails. The last provides a +36V rail that can be battery-backed. That one is then regulated down to +/-12V and +/-5V for the memory boards. It also supplies the H-bridge driver that provides the 35V 70Hz supply for the fans. The schematic for this supply is a dozen or so pages. I wouldn't want to work on one without it in front of me, even though I've repaired them before... -tony From root at parse.com Wed Nov 5 15:55:44 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: PDP-8/I memory problem In-Reply-To: from "O. Sharp" at Nov 05, 2003 12:32:10 PM Message-ID: <200311052155.QAA08555@parse.com> O. Sharp sez... > > I finally got the original post, along with the followup. :) :-) > It suddenly dawned on me that I've got the memory-extension schematics > on my hard drive (thank you, Mr. Kossow!), and can actually look at > them without digging through the storage room... Yes, Al's site is an *excellent* resource! > In the Memory Extension Control the MB is indeed buffered, and becomes > the MCBMB (presumably "Memory-Control-Buffered Memory Buffer"). > Curiously, it rebuffers the MB by taking the signal from the _other_ > side of the original MB00 flip-flop - e.g., MB00(1) - and inverting > it prior to use. I'm guessing this is to minimize rewiring of the > backplane when installing the extended-memory option. The inversion > for MB00 takes place on the M617 at B12. Does the problem move down to > MB06 if you swap the M617s at B12 and B13? Similarly, is the MB00(1) Swapped; no change :-( > signal making it from E34 pin T2 to B12 pin A1? Yup. Connection exists on the backplane... > I don't know if that'll make a difference, but I'm hoping. :) The > rebuffering looks like it's primarily for extensions located off the > main board, but it may affect the first two 4K stacks as well.. I'm > not sure what wiring changes, if any, are done on the 8/I backplane to > accomodate the memory-extension control, or whether the MB/MCBMB > signals are a part of that. Anyone know of a reference for this? > > Anyway, that's my thought. I hope it helps, because if that isn't it > the guesses start getting esoteric. :) :) Bring on the esoteric guesses! :-) Thanks, -RK -- Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Wed Nov 5 16:49:47 2003 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <008c01c3a3d2$dabec1a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20031105224947.42106.qmail@web12406.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jay West wrote: > 1) If some seller sets up an auction as private (yet > it still shows up on > the listings) - the deal is that no one can see who > bid on it, or who is > currently the high bidder. In this set up, how can I > be sure the seller > isn't bidding on his own auction to drive up the > price? > You can never be sure in a public auction either (seller using a second user id) > 2) Hypothetically, say I sell an item on Ebay for... > oh... $2500.00. The guy > could pay me via paypal, or he could send me a > cashiers check. Does Paypal > report transactions to the IRS? Or more importantly, > if I sell items on ebay > all year... do I have to track all that and report > to IRS? Yes, but you have to track all your expenses too, the reason the IRS is not going after all the ebay sellers is that if the sellers actually accounted for all their expenses the IRS would have to start writing checks, not receiving them. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 5 17:27:53 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: PDP-11/44 want list In-Reply-To: <88A237F0F2A83949BB50CA3CFB577B37CE127A@US-TRILLIUM.columbia.csc> from "Lancashire, Pete" at Nov 5, 3 01:26:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 157 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031105/b058b4dc/attachment.ksh From kd7bcy at teleport.com Wed Nov 5 17:36:12 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:52 2005 Subject: Compaq Portable in PDX Message-ID: I've decided that I don't really like old PC's(altho I'll still keep my 5150), so I am getting rid of my Compaq Portable. It worked last I plugged it in about a year ago, I haven't tried it since - so no guarantee that it still works(but it should). It's been sitting in the basement and never gets used and I have too much stuff so it has to go. It has a half-height hard drive - something like 20 or 40MB, and a full-height 5.25" floppy drive. It's available free to the first person who can pick it up in Portland, Oregon. This is a pick-up only, I'm not going to ship something this big. Any takers? -JR KD7BCY From dburrows at netpath.net Wed Nov 5 17:50:13 2003 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: RSX11M+ V2.1 manuals available Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20031105184114.03720ff0@mail.netpath.net> If there is any one local to Houston TX that is interested in a set of RSX11M+ Version 2.1 ( and a few 11M 4.1) manuals please let me know OFF list. A good customer of mine is about to throw them out. Sorry it will need to be a local pickup. Yes I am still subscribed but have not been able to keep up with all the traffic.:( Thanks Dan From kittstr at access-4-free.com Wed Nov 5 18:02:25 2003 From: kittstr at access-4-free.com (Andrew Strouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... References: <5A5FB958-0F30-11D8-8170-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001e01c3a3f9$48066a30$e74d4a43@amscomputer> I always felt as though I didn't really belong here because you guys seem to know so much more than me, imagine my suprise when I got a 31.16371% - Total Geek on this test! Andrew Strouse ( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Primus" To: ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 8:35 PM Subject: Re: The Geek Test... > > On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 02:20 PM, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > How many of you have seen this one? > > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html > > > > I only got a 7.88955% result... > > > > -- > > --- Dave Woyciesjes > > --- ICQ# 905818 > > Heh, I got 47.92899% - Super Geek. I've also got a few more things that > should be on the list... > > - You have at least one computer that is more than 10 years old. > ...on the internet. > ...that you use daily. > - You have more than ten different types of magnetic media. > ...not including audio or video media. > - You have some 8" floppies. > ...and a computer that uses them. > - The lights dim when you turn on one of your computers. > ...or send something to your printer. > - The keyboard on your most powerful computer is more than ten years > old, and the computer is new. > - You know the exact formatted capacity for more than three types of > media. > ...and unformatted. > - You have an Atari 2600. > ...and you have rolled the score on Asteroids > ...twice or more. > - You have repaired things that others have deemed unfixable. > ...on many occasions. > - The people at Radio Shack know you by name. > - You know what a 7404 does. > - There are at least four empty cans from a caffeinated beverage on > your desk. > - You have a computer that won't fit through the door. > - You have ever recorded Star Trek on Umatic tape for better picture > quality. > - Your car has at least four extra computer parts in it. > - You moved to another state, and one large moving van was filled > entirely with computers. > - You know _exactly_ what causes a vertical line down the center of the > screen on a compact mac. > - During a power outage, you rigged an Atari to run off batteries and > used it with a battery powered TV. > > > The sad thing is that all of those apply to me... > > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com > > From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Nov 5 17:59:01 2003 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: Is there a physicist in the house? In-Reply-To: <003701c39fba$c00e4540$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <003701c39fba$c00e4540$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <200311060019.TAA22712@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Fundamentally you can't disprove Heisenberg with Newtonian laws, so > if you think you can, you are likely wrong (to very high degree of > liklihood). And if you have such an argument and it _is_ right, all you've shown is that Newtonian mechanics and Heisenberg are incompatible, that they cannot both be right. Which, if either, _is_ right is a question for experiment, not theorizing. (My money would be on Heisenberg in such a case.) > People have already mentioned how acceleration and smallness can mess > up the measurement, but it's probably more than that. Indirectly > related might be the Bose-Einstein concentrate. Scientists slowed > down subatomic particles to a near stop, so they knew the position > and the speed right? Apparently the particles by theory and by the > experiment just "deres" or become big fuzzballs that have no definite > position. That's part of it; the Pauli exclusion principle is also related. The exclusion principle says that particles with non-integer spin (fermions, such as electrons with their spin ??) cannot be identical: two such particles must differ in location, or spin, or some such. This is why atoms have electron shells that can fill up - for example, the first shell is spatially symmetric, and thus can tolerate only two electrons, one with spin +? and one with spin -?; the next shells are lobed, with three such available (one for each spatial dimension), holding two electrons each. Fermions display Fermi-Dirac statistics, I think the term is. Particles with integer spin (bosons, such as photons with their zero spin) can be as identical as they care to; they are said to display Bose-Einstein statistics. As you say, when particles get very cold, their momentum becomes very small, to a high degree of precision, which means their position becomes correspondingly _un_certain: they fuzz out, to put it loosely. But if you try this with fermions, they resist overlapping because of the exclusion principle[%]; you have to do it with bosons to get anything really interesting. (This is why helium-4 becomes superfluid but helium-3 doesn't: that extra neutron makes the difference between the nuclei being fermions and their being bosons.) With fermions, all you get is zero-point motion (particles still jiggling around some regardless of how close to absolute zero you get; they refuse to sit still because that would give them very precise position _and_ velocity, and fuzzing out into a B-E condensate would make them overlap with other fermions.) [%] Actually, "because of" is a very imprecise way of putting it. We do not know _why_ the world works this way; we do not know even that there _is_ a "why". All we know is _that_ it does, and the exclusion principle is just a description of one aspect of the way the world works. To say that the exclusion principle is _why_ something happens is, strictly speaking, mistaking description for causality. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From kd7bcy at teleport.com Wed Nov 5 18:24:08 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: Compaq Portable in PDX In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The Portable has been spoken for... Thanks! -JR KD7BCY From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Nov 5 18:25:48 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <001e01c3a3f9$48066a30$e74d4a43@amscomputer> Message-ID: Andrew, > I always felt as though I didn't really belong here because you guys seem to > know so much more than me, imagine my suprise when I got a 31.16371% - Total > Geek on this test! I dont think the amount of knowledge is in any way required to be present on this fine channel. If it were, I sure as hell would never have been admitted... we're about collecting the old beasties here, not about who knows the most about em ;-) Cheers, Fred ("also 31%") -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Nov 5 18:30:01 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: Is there a physicist in the house? In-Reply-To: <200311060019.TAA22712@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, der Mouse wrote: > That's part of it; the Pauli exclusion principle is also related. > > The exclusion principle says that particles with non-integer spin > ... Guys, please, let's use the English language, and choose a subject most of us will understand. I for one flunked nuclear physics at uni, and there was a reason for that... kinda dont feel like being reminded of that now... Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Nov 5 18:35:47 2003 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: Passwrd for lost NEXT machine?? In-Reply-To: <1067812030.3528.4.camel@gandalf> References: <1067812030.3528.4.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <200311060037.TAA22869@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > How do I break into a NEXT machine where I know no passwords, root or > otherwise? Is it possible to make this machine usable or am I going > to have to wipe the drives and start over again? Well, if all else fails you can pull the disk and put it on another machine (not necessarily a NeXT), mount the filesystem there, and do things like bash on root's password. In principle, that is. Doing this demands software support on the "another machine" that may not be at ready hand. But it's how I'd be inclined to handle it. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 5 18:31:09 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: References: <008c01c3a3d2$dabec1a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <008c01c3a3d2$dabec1a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031105193109.0080ea80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:32 PM 11/5/03 -0800, Zane wrote: >>2) Hypothetically, say I sell an item on Ebay for... oh... $2500.00. The guy >>could pay me via paypal, or he could send me a cashiers check. Does Paypal >>report transactions to the IRS? Or more importantly, if I sell items on ebay >>all year... do I have to track all that and report to IRS? Never really >>thought of it cause it probably isn't much money anyways. But I am curious >>if ebay and/or paypal reports to the IRS. > >This is a very good question. Unfortunately I think there are two separate answers, with the primary one being you need to talk to someone that professionally prepares taxes. The other answer, is that this is going to vary from state to state. > >Having said that, I suspect this falls under "Hobby Income", and that if you don't make a profit it might not be taxable. The problem is that with the IRS you have to PROVE that you didn't make a profit. If they get something from PayPal (or anywhere else) that shows that you sold something for money (note that I didn't say profit!), then you need to have records showing that it's cost and your expenses are equal or greater than the income from the sales or else you owe taxes on it. In addition to the possible taxes you may (will!) also be charged interest AND penalties AND you could even be charged with income tax evasion! The IRS IS monitoring E-bay sales!!!!!!! (Note emphasis on IS.) They may or may not be getting Paypal records but they ARE monitoring E-bay sales via the internet. I know a lawyer that has a client that HAS already been called in by the IRS and asked about his E-bays sales. (Yes he's in DEEP Doo-Doo!) This was several years ago so it's already happening. I've been told that the IRS has a LARGE computer system by the name of Carnivore or some such that's used to monitor all of the E-bay transactions. Hint: I keep records of my travel and expenses (including meals) when I'm out scrounging and my legal deductions are ALWAYS more than what I make off of the stuff that I sell. We can (and do) use that loss to offset our regular 9-5 job income. It normally knocks a couple of k off of our income which translates to $1000 to $1200 less taxes that we have to pay. Joe At least I hope this is the case, as things are almost to the point that my wife can start selling chunks of my collection off, and I'm pretty sure that in the long run I won't make a profit. > > Zane > >-- >-- >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | >| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | >| | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 5 18:35:38 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <20031105134026.M65305@newshell.lmi.net> References: <008c01c3a3d2$dabec1a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <008c01c3a3d2$dabec1a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031105193538.00811ae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:54 PM 11/5/03 -0800, you wrote: >On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Jay West wrote: >> I have a couple questions about ebay/paypal, and figured some folks on the >> list here might know the "straight scoop". > >instead, we will give you a lot of uninformed opinions > >> 1) If some seller sets up an auction as private (yet it still shows up on >> the listings) - the deal is that no one can see who bid on it, or who is >> currently the high bidder. In this set up, how can I be sure the seller >> isn't bidding on his own auction to drive up the price? He's taunting me I >> bet demmit! heh >I'm pretty sure that the eBay system would not accept a bid by the seller. >Therefore, he is using a SHILL - having a friend of his make the bid. > >> 2) Hypothetically, say I sell an item on Ebay for... oh... $2500.00. The guy >> could pay me via paypal, or he could send me a cashiers check. Does Paypal >> report transactions to the IRS? >Only large ones, or "suspicious" ones. The rule of thumb in the banking >community USED TO be that any transaction over $10,000 had to be reported >to the guvmint, I think that was lowered to $1,000 about ten years ago. Drug War and all that BS. FWIW I was traveling on a toll road a couple of years ago and had to use a $100 bill to pay a toll. The toll takers had to make a copy of my driver's licene and other info to report it to the IRS!!! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 5 18:42:22 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: OT: Id this Teletype machine In-Reply-To: <2302.65.123.179.146.1068037610.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031104201134.00800100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031104201134.00800100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031105194222.007db540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> No, both pieces were made by Teletype. I found plate on the tape reader that said "McDonald Douglas", a contract number, "reader, tape", and made by Teletype along with some other info. The big piece has Teletype in large letters across the front of it. Joe At 07:06 AM 11/5/03 -0600, Gary wrote: >You might have a Kleinschmit TTY there. Don't know much about them, but >they were an "also ran" supplier of TTY machines, but only a fraction of >what Ma Bell/Teletype made and sold. > >Gary Hildebrand >St. Joseph, MO > >> Last week I drug home a Teletype machine just seconds before it was >> going to be tossed in a dumpster but I can't identify it. It LOOKS like a >> model 28 KSR Compact as seen at >> but the only id >> tag that I can find on it says TT-187A/UG. Inside is another tag that says >> MX-1114A/UG Keyboard. Can anyone id it from those numbers? Also found a >> second piece that looks the M28 Transmitter-Distributer shownon the same >> page. The label in it says CY-871/UG TT-69A/UG. I need help id'ing this >> one >> too. The property on it says that it came from McDonald Douglas and that >> it's a "reader, tape". >> >> Joe >> >> > > From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Nov 5 18:40:41 2003 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200311060045.TAA22934@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> [...] > You've just pointed out one of the biggest problems facing our > society. When general knowledge of technology is lost, what then? > Are all the high-tech jobs going to be in India and China within 20 > years? Probably. The wheel is turning. In the early days of North America, society valued education and learning, for example by giving higher education a good deal of public money. Now that attitude has been lost and the support it engendered is fading; in a few generations there will be nothing left. Then North America will one day look at itself and wake up to a realization that it has become what today is called Third World, and be thoroughly baffled as to how and why this happened. ...and whoever is on top then will get complacent, and North America will be motivated to care about education again, and the wheel will turn around again. Perhaps things aren't quite that dismal. Europe has maintained a remarkable level of support for education for a remarkable time. And a few subcultures have maintained a love of and respect for learning for _long_ periods (the Jews come to mind). But the above is sure what I see happening. "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." The problem is, the true cost of ignorance is deferred until after the next election. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From ohh at drizzle.com Wed Nov 5 19:33:48 2003 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: PDP-8/I memory problem In-Reply-To: <200311052155.QAA08555@parse.com> Message-ID: > Bring on the esoteric guesses! :-) Damn! Pick an easy problem next time. :) -Is there continuity between the sense-amp MEM00 outputs (A31, pin A1; A17, pin A1) and the MEM00 input to the major register gating (F34, pin R1)? Seems obvious, but I'll ask. -If you physically remove one of the 4K core stacks, including the sense amps and inhibit drivers, does the problem go away? If so, then it's possible one of its sense-amps has gone berserk and is forcing the signal low for everybody. Seems hysterically unlikely, but I'll suggest it. Similarly I suppose a defective inhibit driver might _some_how do the same thing to the original input, though it seems less likely. -If you took the MEM00 line coming from the sense amps and tied it high, say perhaps at its entry to the major register gating (F34, pin R1), and then tried a few EXAMs, does the MB00 finally get pulled high? It better. :) If it doesn't then something must be happening with the major registers and/or gating, M220 swaps notwithstanding. Maybe a bad contact at the backplane?... -If you take the MB00 line, disconnected it from the M220 (E34, pin U2) and tied it high, then took MB00(1) off E34 pin T2 and tied it to ground, it should force the writing of a 1 at that bit no matter what the hell may be happening elsewhere. Does it? If not, what happens if you reattach those and then force MCBMB00 high instead (B12, pin E1)? Hopefully one of these might provoke a reaction, and thus narrow down the problem to something prior to the inhibit drivers themselves. If so, great; if not, a similar process might be tried from the sense-amp outputs forward (though there's not nearly as much to test in that direction). ...I hope one of these ideas makes an answer appear. You know, the twisted thing about this process is that I'm actually enjoying it. But I suspect most of you will understand that. :) -O.- From allain at panix.com Wed Nov 5 20:10:59 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial References: <200311060045.TAA22934@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <02cd01c3a40b$38db5680$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > In the early days of North America, society valued education > and learning, for example by giving higher education a good > deal of public money. Now that attitude has been lost and the > support it engendered is fading; in a few generations there > will be nothing left. Then ... third world {status} Hey, don't be so certain, Heisenberg . Actually I agree with you. Just put in a few if..then or else clauses. Experimental proof of the importance of education could be the fact that predictive grants for prison funding are often based on low test scores recorded in the schools a few years earlier. John A. From dave at mitton.com Wed Nov 5 20:13:50 2003 From: dave at mitton.com (Dave Mitton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue In-Reply-To: <200311040114.hA41EO3U006609@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20031105204755.03222ec0@getmail.mitton.com> On 11/3/2003 07:14 PM -0600, cctech-request@classiccmp.org wrote: >chris wrote: > > ... > > Can anyone recommend a glue for plastic that doesn't suck. Testor's no > > longer makes usable plastic model glue. The tube is labeled as "for > > polystyrene or ABS plastic", but I think scotch tape would hold better > > than this crap will. "Glue" is very plastic dependent. Different solvents or adhesives for different plastics. Most plastic models are styrene, and the solvent in your typical model "cement" is MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone) which can be bought by the pint in the paint/solvent section of good hardware stores. Many model builders use liquid cement, which avoids many of the fillers and other stuff in the viscous tube cements. They and other smelly compounds are in there to discourge sniffers, not eye lid accidents. > > > > SuperGlue (Krazy Glue, whatever the brand on that tube says) doesn't do > > any better. > > > > I've got a plastic push gear I'm trying to glue back together, and so far > > three different glues haven't done squat! The last one I tried was some > > brand of a super glue designed to fill gaps and bond most anything to > > anything... yeah right! As soon as the gear was pushed, it snapped at the > > glue line again (after letting it dry all weekend). > > > > So what's a good plastic glue that I can buy, and where can I get it?!? > > Damn parental groups worrying about kids glueing their eye lids shut have > > ruined it for us all! There is nothing good for everything, and I don't thing anything will be able to stand up to the shear force on your gear teeth. Sorry. Dave. From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Nov 5 20:52:39 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: Wanted: RL02K (Re: WTB/T: RL02/01, QBUS SMD) In-Reply-To: <10310311956.ZM20653@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <200310310129.09250.pat@purdueriots.com> <200310311423.10120.pat@purdueriots.com> <10310311956.ZM20653@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200311052152.39145.pat@purdueriots.com> Pete Turnbull declared on Friday 31 October 2003 02:56 pm: > Yes, it is straight-through. One of mine has 8" of old 40-pin ribbon > cable from an Acorn 2nd Processor, vintage 1985 or so, and it works > fine. The back of the bulkhead connector is just a dual row of pins on > 0.1" centres, and an ordinary female header fits perfectly. Of course, > depending on which way up you have the bulkhead connector, you might > need a half-twist in the ribbon cable. Well, I feel like a moron. Flipping one end of the cable fixed it, and made the FAULT light go out. After a few hours of messing around with things, I now have NetBSD booting on a VAXstation 3200 with an RLV12 in it. I was just able to read and write the entire disk.... and the last sector was all 0's before writing the disk (no bad sectors!) Not too bad on a -DC cart. Now, to test out my -EF cart, the only other one I have. I *hope* that one has no problems : ) But first, I have to attempt to write a bootable disk image for a PDP-11/23... All I can say right now is "WAHOO!" I'm glad I spent the 3 minutes to try playing with the cable. Of course, that doesn't mean that I don't still want drives or more carts. : ) Does anyone have any RL02 carts to spare? Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Wed Nov 5 21:11:28 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: Is there a physicist in the house? References: Message-ID: <3FA9BBE0.302DB12E@compsys.to> >"Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > > On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, der Mouse wrote: > > That's part of it; the Pauli exclusion principle is also related. > > The exclusion principle says that particles with non-integer spin > > ... > Guys, please, let's use the English language, and choose a subject > most of us will understand. I for one flunked nuclear physics at > uni, and there was a reason for that... kinda dont feel like being > reminded of that now... > Cheers, Fred Jerome Fine replies: Ummmmm ... I think the problem, Fred, is that the English language was being used - perhaps that might be the reason why you ... I don't normally jump in on these "discussions", but this was one response I could not seem to resist. Actually, I probably did not understand the explanation any more than Fred did, however, I do realize that VERY small concentrations of energy / matter are being discussed - and that is what makes all the difference between what is ordinary and what takes place at a level that is (almost?) totally beyond normal human senses. As stated in this discussion, a lot of what is observed is not actually understood as to the reasons WHY! Perhaps some theories might explain some observations in a few centuries, but right now I seem to understand that even electricity can't actually be explained, only observed and measured. Part of the reason is that the universe is a VERY delicate balance. Change a few of the constants by even a small percentage and life as we observe it here on the Earth could not exist. Just one example is H2O. It is one of the few compounds which is lighter in the normal (or usual) frozen state than in the liquid state with which is is in contact. Ice bergs FLOAT!! I don't know or understand enough to provide other specific examples, let alone describe even a few of the states of frozen H2O. At the other end of the spectrum, the VERY (IMPOSSIBLY?) LARGE, other very interesting things (phenomenon) also occur. Black holes are just one example. Our universe is extremely interesting! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From n8uhn at yahoo.com Wed Nov 5 22:45:07 2003 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: Id this Teletype machine Message-ID: <20031106044507.88775.qmail@web40709.mail.yahoo.com> The ug numbers are military numbers. fair radio in lima ohio used to sell this "type" (pun) of surplus gear. they were used for landline and radio teletype (rtty). nadcom (or is it nadcomm?) (i cannot remember thier web addy) may have more info - they are a teletype museum and do have some mil stuff in thier collection. Bill Message: 26 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 20:11:34 -0500 From: Joe Subject: OT: Id this Teletype machine To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031104201134.00800100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Last week I drug home a Teletype machine just seconds before it was going to be tossed in a dumpster but I can't identify it. It LOOKS like a model 28 KSR Compact as seen at but the only id tag that I can find on it says TT-187A/UG. Inside is another tag that says MX-1114A/UG Keyboard. Can anyone id it from those numbers? Also found a second piece that looks the M28 Transmitter-Distributer shownon the same page. The label in it says CY-871/UG TT-69A/UG. I need help id'ing this one too. The property on it says that it came from McDonald Douglas and that it's a "reader, tape". Joe __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From vcf at siconic.com Wed Nov 5 22:56:59 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > However, a couple of questions caught my eye. It asks if you've 'done a > 500+ piece puzzle'. I assume it means a jigsaw puzzle. Does completely > stripping and reassembling an ASR33 without the manuals count? After having had 25% success rate in trying to get 4 different Model 33 and 32 units working correctly over the past couple days, I'd say that entitles you to Knighthood, Sir Duell. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Nov 5 23:11:29 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <3FA974BF.31F7961@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, jim wrote: > paypal really goes after buyers with a vengence. They don't seem to give > a crap what sellers do. I bid on a camera and won the auction, but the > seller gave me the finger and said "oops, too little money, i messed up > not screwing you with a reserve" and ebay did absolutely nothing, and he > continued vic^h^h selling to others, and does to this day. I've about had it with eBay. It seems like getting screwed by a seller is no longer such a rare thing. What's more common is the complete lack of regard that eBay gives to buyer's who complain about shitty sellers. No matter how many complains I send, eBay seems to ignore them even more stridently. Of course, when a seller I complained about complained about me, I got an immediate warning. When I wrote back (after spending an inordinate amount of time trying to navigate eBay's maze of self-referencing web pages that all lead to nowhere to try to figure out how to contact them) I have yet to hear back about it. eBay needs to get bitch slapped hard by a class-action lawsuit. And no, this is not (just) a blatant plug for the Vintage Computer Marketplace, though I do wish more people would start switching their vintage computer buying and selling there. New features are going to be implemened soon including multiple currency support. We're shooting for doubling the current user base by the end of the year, but we need more users. That being said, we'll also be introducing some incentive programs for people to refer others to the site. Stay tuned... http://marketplace.vintage.org > Your own bank only reports your interest income, nothing else to the > IRS, on ordinary banking operations. I cant think of anything that > paypal is doing that is reportable compared to a bank, or to a credit > card processing operation (again, no IRS reports) that is unique or > regulated. PayPal operates as a bank, and is therefore subject to the same regulations as any "bricks & mortar" bank. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rhahm at nycap.rr.com Wed Nov 5 23:11:22 2003 From: rhahm at nycap.rr.com (RHahm) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: Yellowed computer parts Message-ID: Here is what I use: For mild/moderate cleaning Simple Green works great. For heavy yellowing I use Purple Power which removes a lot of, but not all, of the yellowing (careful this can discolor metal). I use both with the Black and Decker Versa Pac rotary scrub brush with the soft brush attachment, if the case is removable, in the sink or driveway with a hose. Simple Green diluted 1:1 with water with a rag and Q-tips for cleaning the keyboard and parts of the computer near elecrical components that can't be hosed down or put in the sink as in step one. Goo-Be-Gone for spot cleaning of residue from stickers etcetera. Meguiar's Protectant as a last step. From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Nov 5 23:41:06 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: ebay question References: Message-ID: <002001c3a428$92e67610$3d7ca418@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 12:11 AM Subject: Re: ebay question > On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, jim wrote: > > > paypal really goes after buyers with a vengence. They don't seem to give > > a crap what sellers do. I bid on a camera and won the auction, but the > > seller gave me the finger and said "oops, too little money, i messed up > > not screwing you with a reserve" and ebay did absolutely nothing, and he > > continued vic^h^h selling to others, and does to this day. > > I've about had it with eBay. It seems like getting screwed by a seller is > no longer such a rare thing. What's more common is the complete lack of > regard that eBay gives to buyer's who complain about shitty sellers. No > matter how many complains I send, eBay seems to ignore them even more > stridently. Of course, when a seller I complained about complained about > me, I got an immediate warning. When I wrote back (after spending an > inordinate amount of time trying to navigate eBay's maze of > self-referencing web pages that all lead to nowhere to try to figure out > how to contact them) I have yet to hear back about it. eBay needs to get > bitch slapped hard by a class-action lawsuit. > > And no, this is not (just) a blatant plug for the Vintage Computer > Marketplace, though I do wish more people would start switching their > vintage computer buying and selling there. > > New features are going to be implemened soon including multiple currency > support. We're shooting for doubling the current user base by the end of > the year, but we need more users. That being said, we'll also be > introducing some incentive programs for people to refer others to the > site. Stay tuned... > > http://marketplace.vintage.org > > > Your own bank only reports your interest income, nothing else to the > > IRS, on ordinary banking operations. I cant think of anything that > > paypal is doing that is reportable compared to a bank, or to a credit > > card processing operation (again, no IRS reports) that is unique or > > regulated. > > PayPal operates as a bank, and is therefore subject to the same > regulations as any "bricks & mortar" bank. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > Last time I checked there were onyl 112 listing at the marketplace, and a few of the prices seemed kind of high to me. The whole point of EBAY is that there are 100,000+ auctions going on and good deals are still there to be found. Of course EBAY will do anything to please the seller because thats what keeps their money coming in. If people quit selling items there what would the multi billion dollar EBAY stock be worth? If a seller on EBAY screws up the dsecription then get your money back (assuming you iused a credit card). I wouldnt even bother with EBAY's or sellers runaround call your credit card company and just reverse the charges (have a good story). I dont see how a small closed group of collectors can reach critical mass to rival EBAY for sellers attention. From root at parse.com Wed Nov 5 17:08:15 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: PDP-8/I memory problem [FIXED!!!] In-Reply-To: <200311052155.QAA08555@parse.com> from "Robert Krten" at Nov 05, 2003 04:55:44 PM Message-ID: <200311052308.SAA25625@parse.com> Following up on my on post, and top-posting at that :-) IT WORKS NOW!!! Apparently, I hadn't actually swapped two of the cards that I thought I had. It was the G021 swap at A31/A32 that didn't appear to have happened. Swapping it again (anyway) moved the problem to another bit. I had to pull a G021 out of my PDP-12 to fix the 8/I :-( Now I can run a small program!!! 0000 2010 ISZ 0010 0001 5000 JMP 0000 0002 7001 INC 0003 5000 JMP 0000 This flashes (almost) all the lights in the accumulator in a nice, slow, count up. I say almost, because apparently an M220 is still broken and doesn't carry. I've found it, now just to fix the chip. OH HAPPY DAY! :-) Cheers, -RK Robert Krten sez... > > O. Sharp sez... > > > > I finally got the original post, along with the followup. :) > > :-) > > > It suddenly dawned on me that I've got the memory-extension schematics > > on my hard drive (thank you, Mr. Kossow!), and can actually look at > > them without digging through the storage room... > > Yes, Al's site is an *excellent* resource! > > > In the Memory Extension Control the MB is indeed buffered, and becomes > > the MCBMB (presumably "Memory-Control-Buffered Memory Buffer"). > > Curiously, it rebuffers the MB by taking the signal from the _other_ > > side of the original MB00 flip-flop - e.g., MB00(1) - and inverting > > it prior to use. I'm guessing this is to minimize rewiring of the > > backplane when installing the extended-memory option. The inversion > > for MB00 takes place on the M617 at B12. Does the problem move down to > > MB06 if you swap the M617s at B12 and B13? Similarly, is the MB00(1) > > Swapped; no change :-( > > > signal making it from E34 pin T2 to B12 pin A1? > > Yup. Connection exists on the backplane... > > > I don't know if that'll make a difference, but I'm hoping. :) The > > rebuffering looks like it's primarily for extensions located off the > > main board, but it may affect the first two 4K stacks as well.. I'm > > not sure what wiring changes, if any, are done on the 8/I backplane to > > accomodate the memory-extension control, or whether the MB/MCBMB > > signals are a part of that. Anyone know of a reference for this? > > > > Anyway, that's my thought. I hope it helps, because if that isn't it > > the guesses start getting esoteric. :) :) > > Bring on the esoteric guesses! :-) > > Thanks, > -RK > > -- > Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. > Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com > Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! > -- Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! From sml49 at comcast.net Wed Nov 5 18:11:46 2003 From: sml49 at comcast.net (Seth Lewin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: Any suggestions for cleaning yellowed computer parts? In-Reply-To: <200311052306.hA5N5h3W029034@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: > I still prefer to use a sink full of hot soapy water, and a medium stiff > paint brush, and lots of elbow grease. The brush gets down into the cracks > and crevasses, and any texturing on the case. I also prefer this method > because I enjoy the act of scrubbing everything up. I like to see the > cleaned piece emerge from years grime and dirt, and the work gives me time > to think. A toothbrush and a facial buff pad are also useful. Lestoil liquid cleaner diluted with a little hot water will remove the most astonishing amount of sheer crud of anything I've ever tried that's not either an abrasive or a solvent. Use it with a brush; let it sit awhile. ..Seth Lewin From twburger at shaw.ca Wed Nov 5 23:38:01 2003 From: twburger at shaw.ca (TW Burger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: Drive specs for Fujitsu m2682TAU Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20031105213505.00a65490@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> I was searching too and found nothing. I did it myself. CHS 992/11/63 about 320-350 MB. The master/slave jumper is 1-2 of CN3 On is Master off Off is Slave. From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Nov 6 00:02:19 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031105193109.0080ea80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <008c01c3a3d2$dabec1a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <008c01c3a3d2$dabec1a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3.0.6.32.20031105193109.0080ea80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > The problem is that with the IRS you have to PROVE that you didn't make a >profit. If they get something from PayPal (or anywhere else) that shows >that you sold something for money (note that I didn't say profit!), then >you need to have records showing that it's cost and your expenses are equal >or greater than the income from the sales or else you owe taxes on it. In >addition to the possible taxes you may (will!) also be charged interest AND >penalties AND you could even be charged with income tax evasion! I rather figured this was the case, and was part of why I recommended getting professional advice. Any idea if storage costs go towards showing that you didn't make a profit? Unfortunately in my case, I don't have receipts that show how much I paid for all this junk, and I sure can't remember in most cases. And yes, I will end up getting professional advice in the long run on this. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Thu Nov 6 01:00:26 2003 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: info on Data General 6243 terminal? References: <3.0.6.32.20031101182044.00807100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <031701c3a433$abb6ff10$acaafea9@newhare> G'day Joe and Jay - I have the following DG doc's already scanned: 014-000746-01__D210-D211_Dasher_Terminal_Users_Manual.tif 014-001396-00__D216-D216E_and_D412-D462_Terminal_Users_Manual.tif 014-001767-00__Installing_and_Operating_D216_D216E_D412_D462_Terminals.tif 014-001767-01__Installing_and_Operating_D216_D216E_D412_D462_Terminals.tif 014-002057-00__Installing_and_Operating_Your_D216E_D217_D413_and_D463_Termin als.tif 014-002057-01__Installing_and_Operating_D216E_D217_D413_D463_Terminals.tif 015-000102-00__Dasher_D100_D200_Terminals_Maintenance.tif 042-000255-00__Addendum_to_Installing_and_Operating_D216_D216E_D412_D462_Ter minals.tif What information did you want to know about the D100/200 terminal? Just contact me off-list. Also, you mentioned wanting a DG terminal for your DG computer... Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 4:20 PM Subject: Re: info on Data General 6243 terminal? > Bill, > > Thanks for the tip. I think the 6243 is a Dasher 211. But Paul doesn't > have a manual for it :-( But I do have a Technical Manual for the "DGC > Display 6012" and I've offered to let Paul scan it. > > Joe > > > At 11:53 AM 11/1/03 -0800, you wrote: > >On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > >> Does anyone have any info on the Data General > >model 6243 terminal? I > >> found sites that talk about various programs that > >emulate it but > >> nothing else. > >> > >> Joe > > > >Try searching for the terminal's "type" rather than > >its model number. For instance, model 6242 is type > >D210. > > > >And check out vt100.net; I think I saw a couple > >Dasher manuals there, though not for my D210. :-( > >(If anyone out there has a D210 manual, they need > >to shoot a copy over to Paul at vt100.net.) > > > > Cheers, > > Bill. > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears > >http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ > > > From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Thu Nov 6 01:53:18 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <002001c3a428$92e67610$3d7ca418@game> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20031106074059.03ebd390@pop.freeserve.net> At 00:41 06/11/2003 -0500, Teo Zenios wrote: >Last time I checked there were onyl 112 listing at the marketplace, and a >few of the prices seemed kind of high to me. The whole point of EBAY is that >there are 100,000+ auctions going on and good deals are still there to be >found. Of course EBAY will do anything to please the seller because thats >what keeps their money coming in. If people quit selling items there what >would the multi billion dollar EBAY stock be worth? If a seller on EBAY >screws up the dsecription then get your money back (assuming you iused a >credit card). I wouldnt even bother with EBAY's or sellers runaround call >your credit card company and just reverse the charges (have a good story). > >I dont see how a small closed group of collectors can reach critical mass to >rival EBAY for sellers attention. Back in July, eBay UK decided to whop up their prices significantly; they said it was because we have to pay VAT on their fees now, but what angered many people was the way they took the opportunity to bump everything up a the same time, and issue a press release to tell people "some prices will go up, some will go down". yeah, only one never used feature price dropped by a few pennies. This action caused, well, not quite a mass-exodus, but certainly a noticeable one over to www.eBid.co.uk - another general purpose auction site, but free to sell on basic listings. Number of members is now up to 114K, 14K of auctions listed and over 1000 with bids as I write... Nothing to rival eBay, but enough traffic to mean we now sell everything we list, eventually. (My wife sells miniature Russian glass animals, though we've not got much up at the moment.) and eBay? Did they notice? They apparently ignore it. BUT there have been rather a lot of free listing days since the exodus... like every couple of weeks recently. (albeit restricted "if your listing is x and y and z") We didn't have one for ages before then... Rob. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Nov 6 02:15:28 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <002001c3a428$92e67610$3d7ca418@game> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Teo Zenios wrote: > Last time I checked there were onyl 112 listing at the marketplace, and a > few of the prices seemed kind of high to me. The whole point of EBAY is that Yeah, I know. But we're not in the business of editing auctions or e-mailing each person that lists a Compaq Portable for $350 to let them know that they are insane. That being said, there are some incredible bargains to be had on the VCM. I've partaken in a few myself. > there are 100,000+ auctions going on and good deals are still there to be > found. Of course EBAY will do anything to please the seller because thats I'm not concerned about the 100,000+ auctions but the 3,000 or so that have to do with vintage computer items. The VCM is a far more suitable venue for the trading of vintage computers and its ilk, and I won't stop until we've conquered that market from eBay. > I dont see how a small closed group of collectors can reach critical > mass to rival EBAY for sellers attention. Hmm. Hundreds, if not thousands, of people use eBay strictly to shop for vintage computers. The vintage computer categories on eBay have over 3,000 items listed at any time. No critical mass? Hardly. eBay is a mess and there's no reason this hobby should be held hostage by it any longer. Join the Vintage Computer Marketplace to take the market back for yourself! http://marketplace.vintage.org -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Nov 6 04:28:44 2003 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200311061048.FAA06016@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >>> http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html > Geeky enough that I can't use the damned thing because the twerp that > wrote it only allows the use of JavaScript to do the point counting, > and my browser is so old it doesn't support that :P Ah, that would explain why I couldn't find what link to hit to get my results. (I use lynx.) Assuming it's purely a number-of-boxes percentage (which seems likely given the way a few questions have multiple boxes, of which you are supposed to check all or none), my score is...umm...341/506=67.391+%, or 342/507=67.4556+% if I count the "hacked into" question, which I am inclined not to do both because it is so misworded and because of the three incidents that could support a yes answer to the question it was intended to ask, two required no real hacking skill at all (one was pure social engineering, based on knowing someone well enough to guess a password; the other was not quite believing that a reported hole was as severe as it was without seeing it work myself) and the third, while requiring hacking skill, really involved no unauthorized access - just being too impatient to wait several hours for the person who would have given me access. What does that make me? One of the last three (Extreme Geek or worse), based on other scores seen on the list; I'm too lazy to pick apart the javascript to find out where the edges of the score buckets are. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Nov 6 05:16:23 2003 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <000001c3a35b$ab6ffb20$6401a8c0@ernest> References: <000001c3a35b$ab6ffb20$6401a8c0@ernest> Message-ID: <200311061117.GAA06244@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I run more than one flavor on Linux on my home computer. > I have a "registered Linux user" number. I run something even less mainstream than Linux. - Exclusively. > I subscribe to OS newsgroups. > - 3+ OS newsgroups. > - and I know what the "Hitler Rule" is. - - and I know it's properly called Godwin's Law. :-) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Nov 6 05:32:18 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20031105193109.0080ea80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <008c01c3a3d2$dabec1a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <008c01c3a3d2$dabec1a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3.0.6.32.20031105193109.0080ea80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031106063218.00817870@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:02 PM 11/5/03 -0800, you wrote: >> The problem is that with the IRS you have to PROVE that you didn't make a >>profit. If they get something from PayPal (or anywhere else) that shows >>that you sold something for money (note that I didn't say profit!), then >>you need to have records showing that it's cost and your expenses are equal >>or greater than the income from the sales or else you owe taxes on it. In >>addition to the possible taxes you may (will!) also be charged interest AND >>penalties AND you could even be charged with income tax evasion! > >I rather figured this was the case, and was part of why I recommended getting professional advice. Any idea if storage costs go towards showing that you didn't make a profit? It should be, but the same rules woiuld apply that applies to a home business; the area would have to be used exclusively for your hobby business. The costs for a storage unit should apply but you can't charge off the costs of your living room (unless you use it exclusively and IRS would probably make you prove that). My living room would qualify :-( but I don't claim it. Unfortunately in my case, I don't have receipts that show how much I paid for all this junk, and I sure can't remember in most cases. I have the same problem. I buy most of my stufff in big lots so costs is minimal. But the expenses and travel are usually a lot more than the item costs. Joe > >And yes, I will end up getting professional advice in the long run on this. > > Zane > >-- >-- >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | >| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | >| | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Nov 6 06:25:10 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20031105193109.0080ea80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <008c01c3a3d2$dabec1a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <008c01c3a3d2$dabec1a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3.0.6.32.20031105193109.0080ea80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031106072510.007f4db0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:02 PM 11/5/03 -0800, you wrote: >> The problem is that with the IRS you have to PROVE that you didn't make a >>profit. If they get something from PayPal (or anywhere else) that shows >>that you sold something for money (note that I didn't say profit!), then >>you need to have records showing that it's cost and your expenses are equal >>or greater than the income from the sales or else you owe taxes on it. In >>addition to the possible taxes you may (will!) also be charged interest AND >>penalties AND you could even be charged with income tax evasion! > >I rather figured this was the case, and was part of why I recommended getting professional advice. Any idea if storage costs go towards showing that you didn't make a profit? Unfortunately in my case, I don't have receipts that show how much I paid for all this junk, and I sure can't remember in most cases. > >And yes, I will end up getting professional advice in the long run on this. I don't think you need professional advice. The IRS rules and instructions are pretty clear. If it is only a hobby then there isn't much money involved and I doubt that it's worth the costs of "professional" advice. I'd talked to a couple of the "professionals" and frankly they didn't seem to know what they were talking about. Their advice directly contradicted the IRS instructons and they couldn't answer at least half of my questions. My advice, just follow what the IRS instructions say regarding hobby businesses unless it's a full time business or there's lots of money involved. Joe > > Zane > >-- >-- >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | >| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | >| | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > From ian_primus at yahoo.com Thu Nov 6 06:46:04 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2EE0D123-1057-11D8-8170-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> >> - During a power outage, you rigged an Atari to run off batteries and >> used it with a battery powered TV. >> > > Extra points if you did the same with a minicomputer :-) > Even more extra points if you _caused_ the power outage. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Nov 6 07:22:04 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031106072510.007f4db0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031105193109.0080ea80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <008c01c3a3d2$dabec1a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <008c01c3a3d2$dabec1a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3.0.6.32.20031105193109.0080ea80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031106072510.007f4db0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20031106131641.GA16744@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Joe, from writings of Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 07:25:10AM -0500: At 10:02 PM 11/5/03 -0800, someone wrote: >I rather figured this was the case, and was part of why I recommended >getting professional advice. Any idea if storage costs go towards showing >that you didn't make a profit? Unfortunately in my case, I don't have >receipts that show how much I paid for all this junk, and I sure can't > remember in most cases. If all else fails in dire straits, surely the person in question has enough different printers, and printing calculators, in their collection, that can produce different types of print, from dot-matrix to thermal and laser, as well as aged paper, to fudge a few receipts if necessary. ;-) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Nov 6 08:13:28 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <200311061048.FAA06016@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> from der Mouse at "Nov 6, 3 05:28:44 am" Message-ID: <200311061413.GAA13106@floodgap.com> I got 42%. I think the percentage number alone qualifies for extra points. ;) -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- E pluribus Unix ------------------------------------------------------------ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Nov 6 09:17:15 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <20031106131641.GA16744@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <3.0.6.32.20031106072510.007f4db0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031105193109.0080ea80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <008c01c3a3d2$dabec1a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <008c01c3a3d2$dabec1a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3.0.6.32.20031105193109.0080ea80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031106072510.007f4db0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031106101715.00979df0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:16 AM 11/6/03 -0500, R. D. Davis wrote: >Quothe Joe, from writings of Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 07:25:10AM -0500: > >At 10:02 PM 11/5/03 -0800, someone wrote: >>I rather figured this was the case, and was part of why I recommended >>getting professional advice. Any idea if storage costs go towards showing >>that you didn't make a profit? Unfortunately in my case, I don't have >>receipts that show how much I paid for all this junk, and I sure can't >> remember in most cases. > >If all else fails in dire straits, surely the person in question has >enough different printers, and printing calculators, in their >collection, that can produce different types of print, from dot-matrix >to thermal and laser, as well as aged paper, to fudge a few receipts >if necessary. ;-) Hmm. This got me thinking. I often find paper work with this stuff showing it's original costs (in the tens of thousands of dollars!) or it's estimated used value (still in the $1000 range). I wonder if the IRS would accept that instead of the reciept showing that I paid $2 for it :-) Joe From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Nov 6 09:33:13 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031106101715.00979df0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Joe wrote: > Hmm. This got me thinking. I often find paper work with this stuff > showing it's original costs (in the tens of thousands of dollars!) or it's > estimated used value (still in the $1000 range). I wonder if the IRS would > accept that instead of the reciept showing that I paid $2 for it :-) Well, if you have YOUR name on that paperwork, that could work. I try to keep a record of what I get, when I got it, what *I* paid for it, its original value, and "current" value (at the time I got it), and (in code) whom I got it from. (under Dutch law, I dont have to give out that last info to the IRS, unlike in the US) This is mostly for myself, a reminder of what the hobby has cost me "so far". If I'd ever donate it, or start an official exhibit of it, that'd be the declared value for tax/writeoff purposes. As an anecdote, earlier this year my finances manager (yes, I have one..) did a printout of that stuff. He went over it, and came to me, pointing at the paper. He just looked at me, did a *deep* sigh, and just spoke: "dude! ....." *grin* He's also my dad, and the one who's gonna have to pack all that stuff for moving to the U.S. .... ;-) Still. Having such records can help you keep (or re-gain) sanity when it comes to this hobby we have. If you see what all you have gotten the past, say, year or so, and what amount of cash you spent on it, that can be a firm slap in the face... Cheers, Fred (back to cleaning the new LA424 ;-) From rhudson at cnonline.net Thu Nov 6 09:36:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031106101715.00979df0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thursday, November 6, 2003, at 09:17 AM, Joe wrote: > At 08:16 AM 11/6/03 -0500, R. D. Davis wrote: >> Quothe Joe, from writings of Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 07:25:10AM -0500: >> >> At 10:02 PM 11/5/03 -0800, someone wrote: >>> I rather figured this was the case, and was part of why I recommended >>> getting professional advice. Any idea if storage costs go towards >>> showing >>> that you didn't make a profit? Unfortunately in my case, I don't >>> have >>> receipts that show how much I paid for all this junk, and I sure >>> can't >>> remember in most cases. >> >> If all else fails in dire straits, surely the person in question has >> enough different printers, and printing calculators, in their >> collection, that can produce different types of print, from dot-matrix >> to thermal and laser, as well as aged paper, to fudge a few receipts >> if necessary. ;-) > > Hmm. This got me thinking. I often find paper work with this stuff > showing it's original costs (in the tens of thousands of dollars!) or > it's > estimated used value (still in the $1000 range). I wonder if the IRS > would > accept that instead of the reciept showing that I paid $2 for it :-) > > Joe > > > not now that you have mentioned it in an open forum (he he :^/ ) From plobbes at source.com Thu Nov 6 09:31:55 2003 From: plobbes at source.com (Pat Lobbes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: Hx-20 Message-ID: <6DABDD24AFECBF4A8A397827971DC91A48DCB8@enterprise.source.com> I am looking to buy a HX-20. Yes we still use it! Do you have any ideas about where I can find one. Thanks, Pat PAT LOBBES SOURCE, INC 972-371-2626 972-371-2597 FAX plobbes@source.com From lbickley at bickleywest.com Thu Nov 6 11:12:02 2003 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031106063218.00817870@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031105193109.0080ea80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031106063218.00817870@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200311060912.02099.lbickley@bickleywest.com> I'm somewhat hesitant to enter this "fray", but since I've for many years been a collector of vintage systems, here goes: My business is consulting (computer design, architecture, patent matters, and technical due-diligence for VCs) - so I've had my own "S" Corp. since 1986 (Minimum tax - $800/year in CA). Every item (including vintage computers, etc.) that I buy or sell is entered into my accounting system. Every dollar I earn using my vintage systems in my work or for resale goes into that system. At the end of the year my CPA creates a balance sheet, P&L, etc. (It costs about $1,500/year for tax accounting - which is deductable). I take advantage of every legal means to reduce my taxes - and I keep impeccable records. I've been audited twice - and came out totally clean (well almost - once the IRS concluded that I didn't declare $300 in income - but they let it drop because my records otherwise were impeccable). So if you're willing to do the necessary paperwork - and have your "hobby" as a collector work for you to make $, you can have a win-win in terms of expensing collectables. I've also considered forming a 501(3c) non-profit corporation - but so far that hasn't been necessary - as the utililization of my collectables in conjunction with my business has just about always turned a (taxable) profit. Cheers, Lyle On Thursday 06 November 2003 03:32, Joe wrote: > At 10:02 PM 11/5/03 -0800, you wrote: > >> The problem is that with the IRS you have to PROVE that you didn't make > >> a profit. If they get something from PayPal (or anywhere else) that > >> shows that you sold something for money (note that I didn't say > >> profit!), then you need to have records showing that it's cost and your > >> expenses are equal or greater than the income from the sales or else you > >> owe taxes on it. In addition to the possible taxes you may (will!) also > >> be charged interest AND penalties AND you could even be charged with > >> income tax evasion! > > > >I rather figured this was the case, and was part of why I recommended > > getting professional advice. Any idea if storage costs go towards showing > that you didn't make a profit? > > It should be, but the same rules woiuld apply that applies to a home > business; the area would have to be used exclusively for your hobby > business. The costs for a storage unit should apply but you can't charge > off the costs of your living room (unless you use it exclusively and IRS > would probably make you prove that). My living room would qualify :-( but I > don't claim it. > > > Unfortunately in my case, I don't have receipts that show how much I paid > for all this junk, and I sure can't remember in most cases. > > I have the same problem. I buy most of my stufff in big lots so costs is > minimal. But the expenses and travel are usually a lot more than the item > costs. > > Joe > > >And yes, I will end up getting professional advice in the long run on > > this. > > > > Zane > > > >-- > >-- > > > >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > >| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > >| > >| | Classic Computer Collector | > > > >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > > > >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > >| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA 94040 "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From kenziem at sympatico.ca Thu Nov 6 11:24:07 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: Spending was: ebay question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200311061224.07513.kenziem@sympatico.ca> On Thursday 06 November 2003 10:33, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > I try to keep a record of what I get, when I got it, what *I* paid > for it, its original value, and "current" value (at the time I got > it), and (in code) whom I got it from. > > This is mostly for myself, a reminder of what the hobby has cost me > "so far". If I'd ever donate it, or start an official exhibit of > it, that'd be the declared value for tax/writeoff purposes. > > Still. Having such records can help you keep (or re-gain) sanity > when it comes to this hobby we have. If you see what all you have > gotten the past, say, year or so, and what amount of cash you spent > on it, that can be a firm slap in the face... I still figure I've spent more on the shelves to hold the collection than the collection itself, if I factor in the cost of the renovations now under way. I still resist paying for machines, I figure that as long as the current owner thinks it has value then they won't be put out on the curb. -- Ottawa, Canada Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 From patrick at evocative.com Thu Nov 6 12:07:51 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:53 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <002001c3a428$92e67610$3d7ca418@game> Message-ID: > > I've about had it with eBay. It seems like getting screwed by > a seller is > > no longer such a rare thing. What's more common is the complete lack of [snip] I had a recent bad experience as well, but fortunately it was more like a warning shot than serious blood-letting. I always check seller feedback scrupulously. If they have recent negative feedback, I just don't bid. Unfortunately I let my judgement lapse recently, and what I ended up with was a Heath H-89, shipped 40 days after the auction close, that arrived on its back packed in crumpled newspaper between two loosely taped-together tomato boxes. Rattling loudly. Upon opening, the CRT was fully two inches pushed back into the chassis, and anyone who knows these machines will know that's not good. The tube's mounting posts were actually snapped from the face of the case and the neck had shattered as it impacted the CPU board. The machine had obviously spent significant time outdoors before shipping as well. Fortunately, I only paid $1 for it (and $40 for shipping, about average); I guess it was seller's revenge. The PROMs alone were worth it to me, though, and the BU500 HOT saved another machine (thanks for your help, Tony), so it wasn't a total loss. That said, it's not about eBay. It's the person. I know what you guys keep saying about James Willing, but I'm pretty discouraged. Nothing in hand, and not a whisper in reply. Caveat emptor. Patrick :-/ From patrick at evocative.com Thu Nov 6 12:29:55 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <002001c3a428$92e67610$3d7ca418@game> Message-ID: > Last time I checked there were onyl 112 listing at the marketplace, and a > few of the prices seemed kind of high to me. The whole point of > EBAY is that > there are 100,000+ auctions going on and good deals are still there to be > found. Of course EBAY will do anything to please the seller because thats > what keeps their money coming in. If people quit selling items there what > would the multi billion dollar EBAY stock be worth? If a seller on EBAY > screws up the dsecription then get your money back (assuming you iused a > credit card). I wouldnt even bother with EBAY's or sellers runaround call > your credit card company and just reverse the charges (have a good story). > > I dont see how a small closed group of collectors can reach > critical mass to > rival EBAY for sellers attention. Prices will adjust themselves as the site become busier, I'm sure. There are rediculous prices for items on eBay as well (often widely discussed here), and this will always be true in any marketplace--there is always someone who is greedy, uninformed, or both. On the other hand, you're not going to find a free, working LA-36 with options on eBay, but there's one on VCM right now. Also there have already been some very successful sellers who have listed items for what at first appear to be high prices, but in fact, those items were just looking for the right buyer. Yesterday, an item that had been listed for 10 weeks was snapped up at full price. The seller was smart and patient, and got what he wanted, and I'm assuming that because the buyer volunteered his money willingly, both sides were happy with the value. It's not just about auctions. You can list an item on VCM for outright sale or trade for as long as you want to leave it there, until someone grabs it. I think that's pretty compelling, and even in its infancy, we're showing that it works. The point of VCM is to create a marketplace for serious collectors and traders and not for the garage-clearing/attic-dumping weekend warrior. I think you'll see a more pronounced difference between "good deals" and "bargains" than you do on eBay once things are really cooking, and a lot of that will be reflective of the quality of both the items and the sellers. It's also a place where you're not going to get scraped and spammed, where your support emails will be answered by people who are also collectors and hobbyists sharing your interests and concerns, where the features and functions of the site are specifically tuned to your market and in response to your feedback, and that eventually we hope, with more data collected, will become a significant resource of value and availability data (none of which is publicly preserved by eBay much beyond 30 days). --Patrick From vance at neurotica.com Thu Nov 6 13:13:10 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... In-Reply-To: <7D190E07-0E73-11D8-B772-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> References: <7D190E07-0E73-11D8-B772-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: It'll take significantly more than 20 samoans to lift 8 fully-loaded IBM RAMAC-2's all at once. Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > Hey!!! > > A new measure of computer size - The Samoan! > > PDP8 - 2 Samoans > > IBM Mainframe with 8 DASD = 20 Samoans (enough samoans to lift > everything at once) > > > On Monday, November 3, 2003, at 08:35 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: > > >> In which case it's far from being the first movable computer -- the > > > > ANY computer that has casters is "portable", and any that can be > > winched > > onto a trailer are "movable" > > > > When calling it "portable", does that require a Samoan? > > or how many Somalians? > > One Japanese computer company, in a picture ad demoing the > > "portability" > > of their computer used a well known Sumu wrestler. It may have been PC > > magazine who pointed out that HE could demo the "portability" of a > > Suzuki. > > > > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Nov 6 13:18:25 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031106101715.00979df0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031106072510.007f4db0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031105193109.0080ea80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <008c01c3a3d2$dabec1a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <008c01c3a3d2$dabec1a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3.0.6.32.20031105193109.0080ea80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031106072510.007f4db0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031106101715.00979df0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20031106110538.D93070@newshell.lmi.net> > >If all else fails in dire straits, surely the person in question has > >enough different printers, and printing calculators, in their > >collection, that can produce different types of print, from dot-matrix > >to thermal and laser, as well as aged paper, to fudge a few receipts > >if necessary. ;-) As long as it doesn't appear to hve been "recreated" for the audit, the IRS will often just take your word for your cost for cash purchases at flea markets, etc., so long as it fits their preconceptions, and that you wrote it down at the time. But if they DON'T believe that you paid that, ... > Hmm. This got me thinking. I often find paper work with this stuff > showing it's original costs (in the tens of thousands of dollars!) or it's > estimated used value (still in the $1000 range). I wonder if the IRS would > accept that instead of the reciept showing that I paid $2 for it :-) If you lose the receipt, they'll take your word for what you paid, within reasonable limits. If you lose MANY such, then you will be in violation of IRS "rules" for "not maintaining proper records". Something else to consider: If you donate something to a valid non-profit (501C3?), then the amount that you can deduct is what you paid for it; EXCEPT,... if you had had it for over a year before making the donation, then you can deduct the "fair market value". I paid the usual $10 for a Centronics 101 printer. A few years later, I donated it to City College of San Francisco. (They NEEDED a printer for their TRS-80s that could withstand heavy use and abuse) The IRS was perfectly content with my taking a $1000 tax deduction, although, if I were to have made the donation within the first year after I bought it, they would only have permitted the $10. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Nov 6 13:39:10 2003 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031105193109.0080ea80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <008c01c3a3d2$dabec1a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <008c01c3a3d2$dabec1a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3.0.6.32.20031105193109.0080ea80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200311061941.OAA07953@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >>> [...] the IRS [...] >> [...] > The problem is that with the IRS [...] Don't forget, some of us don't care about the IRS. I, for example, care a great deal more about what CCRA (ne? RCT) thinks than I do about what the IRS might think. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B (Those acronyms: CCRA = Canada Customs and Revenue Agency; RCT = Revenue Canada, Taxation.) From vance at neurotica.com Thu Nov 6 13:45:51 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: Non crap plastic glue In-Reply-To: <3FA7CA1B.80701@internet1.net> References: <3FA7CA1B.80701@internet1.net> Message-ID: It depends on the cat, and the refresh rate of the display device. Many cats perceive motion at a "sampling rate" much higher than TV refresh rate. So you either need a "slow" cat, or a way to upmix the refresh rate (i.e. a line-quadrupler or something like that). Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Wow, my cats have never paid any attention to the TV even with animal > shows on. They won't look in the mirror either. It's like they know it > doesn't apply to them or something. Maybe because they can't smell it > as being an animal. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > chris wrote: > > Nope not kidding in the least. > > > > And trust me, when you have a room of 30 cats of assorted ages, they most > > definitly DO watch the TV to pass time. Companies even make videos > > specifically for the purpose. They are of birds or other animals that a > > cat would normally chase. > > > > Its not as if they are watching Matlock reruns or anything. These are > > videos of small animals flying or running around the screen. Basically, > > its a video version of pulling a cat toy around on a string. Lots of > > movement and sound, zero plot. > > > > -chris > > > > > > > > > > From vance at neurotica.com Thu Nov 6 14:17:52 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <200311041157.01738.lbickley@bickleywest.com> References: <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net> <200311041157.01738.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: You don't want to know what I scored. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Lyle Bickley wrote: > Whew, it's long! I got 37.86982% > > Lyle > > On Tuesday 04 November 2003 11:20, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > How many of you have seen this one? > > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html > > > > I only got a 7.88955% result... > > > > -- > > --- Dave Woyciesjes > > --- ICQ# 905818 > > -- > Lyle Bickley > Bickley Consulting West Inc. > Mountain View, CA 94040 > "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" > From vance at neurotica.com Thu Nov 6 14:19:27 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <3FA81CE1.13452.62A73ABE@localhost> References: <3FA7FBF4.3E268D9D@comcast.net> <3FA81CE1.13452.62A73ABE@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > > How many of you have seen this one? > > > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html > > > > I only got a 7.88955% result... > > > Whew, it's long! I got 37.86982% > > Shure, Lyle, it's the first hurdle to proof that you're a geek! > > (And the second is of course to switch to 8859-1 as charset :) Hell no! EBCDIC! Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Thu Nov 6 14:26:44 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Witchy wrote: > > Egad, > > > > I scored 41.22288% - Major Geek. That's embarrassing. It's a good > > thing I don't like Tolkein, or I'd really have gone nose down into the > > dirt. > > I got 39.5% so I'm wondering what the hell might have happened if I'd > have liked Star Trek and/or not got any friends :) I like Star Trek, Star Wars, old 1950's scifi, and play Magic: The Gathering and D&D. My score is high. Peace... Sridhar From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Nov 6 14:27:33 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: References: <3FA81CE1.13452.62A73ABE@localhost> Message-ID: <3FAABCC5.3796.6CE7CB4B@localhost> > > > > How many of you have seen this one? > > > > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html > > > > I only got a 7.88955% result... > > > Whew, it's long! I got 37.86982% > > Shure, Lyle, it's the first hurdle to proof that you're a geek! > > (And the second is of course to switch to 8859-1 as charset :) > Hell no! EBCDIC! EBCDIC doesn't know this stupid tripple dot he used in a question. And don't get me started about what's a real charset, and what's ASCII... H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From vance at neurotica.com Thu Nov 6 14:28:11 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <26529FEA-0F30-11D8-878C-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> References: <26529FEA-0F30-11D8-878C-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > > * I've seen every Bruce Campbell movie, twice (or more) > > * When watching original Star Trek reruns, I mumble the script > > * When watching original Star Trek reruns I name the episode before the > title is shown. I can do that will all the Trek series, even Enterprise. Peace... Sridhar From kd7bcy at teleport.com Thu Nov 6 14:38:21 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: References: <26529FEA-0F30-11D8-878C-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: > > * When watching original Star Trek reruns I name the episode before the >> title is shown. > >I can do that will all the Trek series, even Enterprise. Hmm. I can do it with most of them, but what REALLY scares me is when I do that with the Simpsons... -JR KD7BCY From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Thu Nov 6 15:06:38 2003 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: ebay question References: Message-ID: <3FAAB7DE.4217AF33@msm.umr.edu> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, jim wrote: > > > And no, this is not (just) a blatant plug for the Vintage Computer > Marketplace, I plan to use this forum for my "good" stuff, but I won't bore you with the drek, it will go to Ebay. I'd rather find an audience focused on the product, than throw it first out into the pond where you all, and the other possible Classic computer users would not find it. My friend got a "miss-listed" 129 keypunch off ebay because in the 100,000+ listings he had not described it so you guys could find it. with a smaller group of more interesting listings (eventually) one can scan 100% of the listings of interest, rather than 30+ pages of 100 bits of drek on ebay. Plus, hopefully someone will not tell me to mail on bogus letterhead to Maxtor for a "sample" 160GB drive using a made up name, and charge me $5 to tell me that. probably 10% of the listings on ebay currently are that crap (though not in the vintage category). Jim From vance at neurotica.com Thu Nov 6 15:26:27 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <2EE0D123-1057-11D8-8170-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> References: <2EE0D123-1057-11D8-8170-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > >> - During a power outage, you rigged an Atari to run off batteries and > >> used it with a battery powered TV. > >> > > > > Extra points if you did the same with a minicomputer :-) > > > > Even more extra points if you _caused_ the power outage. This question is too easy to get. There are plenty of people who use minicomputers on UPS's. I've run a mainframe on an UPS during a power failure, and I'm not the only one whose done that. Peace... Sridhar From kentborg at borg.org Thu Nov 6 15:42:10 2003 From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: ; from jplist@kiwigeek.com on Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 03:14:24PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20031106164210.B670@borg.org> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 03:14:24PM -0600, JP Hindin wrote: > > > > > http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html > > Geeky enough that I can't use the damned thing because the twerp that > wrote it only allows the use of JavaScript to do the point counting, and > my browser is so old it doesn't support that :P I had to turn on Javascript to take the quiz--but then I turned it off again. -kb, the Kent who is geeky enough to know Javascript is evil, dangerous, and should not be on by default. From kentborg at borg.org Thu Nov 6 15:46:41 2003 From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: ; from rhudson@cnonline.net on Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 07:31:34PM -0600 References: <20031104160527.J8144@borg.org> Message-ID: <20031106164641.C670@borg.org> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 07:31:34PM -0600, Ron Hudson wrote: > > 37.27811% - Major Geek > > With a name like "BORG" shouldn't you have gotten a better score? > > :^) (kidding) Either that, or, with a name like Borg I don't need to score higher. -kb From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Nov 6 15:50:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: ebay question References: <3FAAB7DE.4217AF33@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: <001601c3a4af$ee1b1450$3d7ca418@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 4:06 PM Subject: Re: ebay question > > > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, jim wrote: > > > > > > And no, this is not (just) a blatant plug for the Vintage Computer > > Marketplace, > > I plan to use this forum for my "good" stuff, but I won't bore you > with the drek, it will go to Ebay. > > I'd rather find an audience focused on the product, than throw it > first out into the pond where you all, and the other possible Classic > computer users would not find it. > > My friend got a "miss-listed" 129 keypunch off ebay because in the > 100,000+ listings he had not described it so you guys could find it. > > with a smaller group of more interesting listings (eventually) one can > scan 100% of the listings of interest, rather than 30+ pages of 100 > bits of drek on ebay. > > Plus, hopefully someone will not tell me to mail on bogus letterhead > to Maxtor for a "sample" 160GB drive using a made up name, and > charge me $5 to tell me that. probably 10% of the listings on ebay > currently are that crap (though not in the vintage category). > > Jim > > First off ask 5 people what drek and good stuff is and you will get different answers from each person depending what they collect and what price range they buy in. People need to check their spelling if your going to use a search engine to find things. As far as just posting the good stuff on the vintage computer marketplace all that means to me is you posting stuff that people would pay alot more for here then on ebay and the fact that people here would know whats common compared to the people on ebay bidding on higher priced "drek". Your just targeting your market for low end and high end material. I assume if you had a $10,000 apple one it would probably go to where it would fetch the most and thats probably ebay. If somebody did bid $5 on a 160gb maxtor drive you know its a bullshit auction, and for the guy to get away with it he must have written something in the fine print of the auction you didnt bother reading. People can get taken anywhere there is a swaplist if your not carefull. I dont understand why people hate the 100,000+ listings on ebay, it just gives you a higher chance of finding what you want when you need it. I was looking for a good ADB KVM for a few of my classic macs and found a Dr Bott one on ebay in mint condition with cables for $50, this was 1/4 the going internet price and had seen one go for 2x the money on the Lowendmac swaplist (another place to find deals or get screwed if you dont know what your doing). I even had alot of luck buying from people on the forsale newsgroups. There are alot of people around who get tired of their old collectables and just dump them to people who still like that particular collectable. I wouldnt limit myself to just 1 place to search. Having said this I have looked through the marketplace a few times and found a couple of items I would have purchased if I didnt have one already, and a few that looked nice but were priced alot more then what they go for on ebay. I am going to continue looking, but I dont like how a few horror stories are making ebay sound like such a shithole when its not, especially when people are just promoting a new avenue of selling vintage equipment. If the Vintage Computer Marketplace takes off its because people will have found what they wanted at the price they would pay , not because people are thumping the fact thats its not ebay (just like linux isnt getting anywhere when all they talk about is how microsoft sucks instead of making their product more apealing). TZ From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Thu Nov 6 16:47:11 2003 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <20031106110538.D93070@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20031106224711.83959.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> --- Fred Cisin wrote: >> Something else to consider: If you donate something > to a valid non-profit > (501C3?), then the amount that you can deduct is > what you paid for it; > EXCEPT,... if you had had it for over a year before > making the donation, > then you can deduct the "fair market value". I paid > the usual $10 for a > Centronics 101 printer. A few years later, I > donated it to City College > of San Francisco. (They NEEDED a printer for their > TRS-80s that could > withstand heavy use and abuse) The IRS was > perfectly content with my > taking a $1000 tax deduction, although, if I were to > have made the > donation within the first year after I bought it, > they would only have > permitted the $10. > How did you figure $1000 as the "fair market value" for a Centronics 101? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Nov 6 17:10:04 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <20031106224711.83959.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031106224711.83959.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20031106150254.K210@newshell.lmi.net> > >> Something else to consider: If you donate something > > to a valid non-profit (501C3?), then the amount that you can deduct is > > what you paid for it; EXCEPT,... if you had had it for over a year > > before making the donation, then you can deduct the "fair market > > value". I paid the usual $10 for a Centronics 101 printer. A few > > years later, I donated it to City College of San Francisco. (They > > NEEDED a printer for their TRS-80s that could withstand heavy use and > > abuse) The IRS was perfectly content with my taking a $1000 tax > > deduction, although, if I were to have made the donation within the > > first year after I bought it, they would only have permitted the $10. On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, steve wrote: > How did you figure $1000 as the "fair market value" > for a Centronics 101? While I would certainly never pay that kind of money, . . . (and I had tried unsuccessfully to sell it for $100 at John Craig's "Computer Swap America"), I got advice on how to proceed from the IRS. At that time, (1983?) there were ads in PROCESSOR, etc. in that price range. I clipped a few of those ads, and got signed written statements from the manager of the lab, and the head of purchasing for the college (who had a title, not necessarily a clue) From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Nov 6 17:12:15 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <008c01c3a3d2$dabec1a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: > 2) Hypothetically, say I sell an item on Ebay for... oh... $2500.00. The guy > could pay me via paypal, or he could send me a cashiers check. Does Paypal > report transactions to the IRS? Or more importantly, if I sell items on ebay > all year... do I have to track all that and report to IRS? Never really > thought of it cause it probably isn't much money anyways. But I am curious > if ebay and/or paypal reports to the IRS. Yes, the IRS knows about Ebay and Paypal, and can get to *all* of the transaction information if they wanted to. I would not worry about anything even up to $2500. The IRS is short too mant agents, although they can use Ebay/Paypal as ammo in an audit. An actually, if it is *your* personal property (not real estate) and you sell, it is not taxed anyway. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Nov 6 17:13:27 2003 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: ebay question Message-ID: <200311062313.PAA06477@clulw009.amd.com> >From: steve > >--- Fred Cisin wrote: >>> Something else to consider: If you donate something >> to a valid non-profit >> (501C3?), then the amount that you can deduct is >> what you paid for it; >> EXCEPT,... if you had had it for over a year before >> making the donation, >> then you can deduct the "fair market value". I paid >> the usual $10 for a >> Centronics 101 printer. A few years later, I >> donated it to City College >> of San Francisco. (They NEEDED a printer for their >> TRS-80s that could >> withstand heavy use and abuse) The IRS was >> perfectly content with my >> taking a $1000 tax deduction, although, if I were to >> have made the >> donation within the first year after I bought it, >> they would only have >> permitted the $10. >> >How did you figure $1000 as the "fair market value" >for a Centronics 101? Hi It surely has more than $10 value as aluminum scrap. Dwight From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 6 16:44:26 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Nov 5, 3 08:56:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1069 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031106/04c08cb7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 6 16:50:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: Spending was: ebay question In-Reply-To: <200311061224.07513.kenziem@sympatico.ca> from "Mike" at Nov 6, 3 12:24:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 294 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031106/8bc2632c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 6 16:54:24 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Rigney" at Nov 6, 3 10:07:51 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 701 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031106/9acee45a/attachment.ksh From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Nov 6 17:31:22 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: Spending was: ebay question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > I still figure I've spent more on the shelves to hold the collection than > > I _know_ I've spent more on connectors, cable, magnetic media, > replacement chips, etc than I've spent on classic computer systems.... I wish I could say the same, but people who have been here know this is not the case, so I'd be lying ... --f From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Nov 6 17:36:36 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: S_L_O_W downloads with Adobe Acrobat was Re: Information about a HP 13197 1K WCS for the HP 1000? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031106183636.00856bb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Last week I was having a LOT of trouble downloading PDF files from Al's website. Adobe Acrobat was taking about ten minutes just to open the first page and I couldn't get any pages beyond the first one. Erik suggested that I right click on the file and save it without opening Adobe Acrobat. I tried that and it worked MUCH better. However Al said that I should be able to open the PDF file with Acrobat and read it and then save it without any problems. That agrees with what I knew about PDFs. Anyway I've been wondering what was going on so today I typed "Why is Adobe Acrobat slow" into Google and I got some interesting results. I found LOTs of reviews of Acrobat version 6 that also complained about it being SO SLOW. Some of the reviewers suggesting sticking with Version 4. Following their advice I uninstalled my current version of Acrobat (ver 5.something) and then went to oldversions.com and downloaded version 4 and installed it. It works MUCH MUCH better! If you're having problems with Acrobat being slow. Try removing it and then installing version 4 and see if that helps. It works for me! Joe At 02:11 PM 11/4/03 -0800, you wrote: > >> You're not supposed to view them in your web browser. > >It should work fine that way, assuming the pdf plugin is sending the >right html commands to the web server. That's what I thought! But I tried saving the files directly and it worked MUCH better. I could save an 18 Mb file in a couple of minutes that way. Using Acrobat I couldn't even get one page in the same time. I tried to open and save a 9Mb file last week and it ran for over 2 1/2 hours and only got about 1/4 of the file before a power glitch crashed the computer. No idea why Acrobat slows things down so much. It doesn't seem to be a problem on small files but the time seems to go up exponentally with file size. I see people reading docs this >way all the time. > >To answer the original question, the WCS card is documented in the >1000 M/E/F Engineering Reference >http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/1000/1000_MEF_EngrRef/ I couldn't find a specific docs for it but I thought it might be in the Engineering Reference. I downloaded it this afternoon but haven't had a chance to look through it yet. Thanks, Joe > >92851-90001_Mar81_6.pdf section B > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Nov 6 17:37:35 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: Spending was: ebay question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > I still figure I've spent more on the shelves to hold the collection than >> the collection itself, if I factor in the cost of the renovations now > >I _know_ I've spent more on connectors, cable, magnetic media, >replacement chips, etc than I've spent on classic computer systems.... In my case, and I suspect several others, I've spent more on storage fee's, than I have on my collection itself. For that mater, I think I've probably spent more on documentation than the collection itself (unless you count a pair of the Alpha's, at which point I'm not sure). Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jdickens at ameritech.net Thu Nov 6 17:43:57 2003 From: jdickens at ameritech.net (James Dickens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: Spending was: ebay question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200311061743.57866.jdickens@ameritech.net> On Thursday 06 November 2003 17:37, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > I still figure I've spent more on the shelves to hold the collection > > > than > >> > >> the collection itself, if I factor in the cost of the renovations now > > > >I _know_ I've spent more on connectors, cable, magnetic media, > >replacement chips, etc than I've spent on classic computer systems.... > > In my case, and I suspect several others, I've spent more on storage fee's, > than I have on my collection itself. For that mater, I think I've probably > spent more on documentation than the collection itself (unless you count a > pair of the Alpha's, at which point I'm not sure). > > Zane i spent 10 times the price($1) that i paid for my Sun IPX for a Transceiver (aui to twisted pair) to connect to my network, and another $10 for a serial null-modem adapter from radioshack.. no i can't solder cables to save my life, maybe if i had a $50 temp controlled iron i could.. but that's more money than the adapter :) James From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Nov 6 17:41:49 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: S_L_O_W downloads with Adobe Acrobat was Re: Information about a HP 13197 1K WCS for the HP 1000? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031106183636.00856bb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Joe wrote: > If you're having problems with Acrobat being slow. Try removing it and > then installing version 4 and see if that helps. It works for me! I run 5.5 on all my systems, and its as fast as ever. I dont like the loading time of it (all the modules initilization et al), but loading files is no problem at all.... Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Nov 6 17:50:29 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: Outphaseing of technology (was: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial) In-Reply-To: <3FA8DE1E.27188.659A0EF3@localhost> Message-ID: > Ok, now it gets slicky ... Tony, you're maybe one of the few > that can somehow proof me wrong, but I doubt that anybody > will come around with a homegrown 14" B/W CRT to replace a > damaged for any 1970s terminal I have, nor with any colour > CRT, not even a rather rough one like used in the IIgs colour > screen. > > I don't doubt that it's possible with home grown development > and tools to build a diplay tuge able to show of something, > but from there, until todays CRTs is quite some way. Making a CRT from scratch that is even remotely usable is probably beyond impossible. Quite a few guys have made tubes in the basement, and the best anyone can do is something on par with a 1920s triode. Maybe. The problem is not so much the building of the guns or the bulb, or even getting a good vacuum - it is *keeping* a good vacuum. Outgassing any tube is a combination of proper materials, environment, and timing, with a healthy dose of magic mixed in. It is far more than just pumping out the gas, sealing the tip, and popping the getter. The tube may work initially, but in a very short amount of time you might as well start over. Most of this information is well documented, thanks to the Dowd archive, but some of the magic is not, and is now gone along with the tube men. If you look at all of the troubles restarted modern tube shops have - even using the original equipment - you might be suprised. Even in the old days, there was much "heartbreak" to get the bugs out. After making a few thousand trial runs, quality tubes might start coming of the lines. There is a very good article in a recent Tube Collector (yes, there is a magazine for those that collect tubes) called "Heartache on the Factory Floor", or something like that. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From patrick at evocative.com Thu Nov 6 19:14:56 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: S_L_O_W downloads with Adobe Acrobat was Re: Information about a HP 13197 1K WCS for the HP 1000? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031106183636.00856bb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > Last week I was having a LOT of trouble downloading PDF files from Al's > website. Adobe Acrobat was taking about ten minutes just to open the first > page and I couldn't get any pages beyond the first one. Erik > suggested that > I right click on the file and save it without opening Adobe Acrobat. I > tried that and it worked MUCH better. However Al said that I > should be able > to open the PDF file with Acrobat and read it and then save it without any > problems. That agrees with what I knew about PDFs. Anyway I've been > wondering what was going on so today I typed "Why is Adobe Acrobat slow" > into Google and I got some interesting results. I found LOTs of reviews of > Acrobat version 6 that also complained about it being SO SLOW. Some of the > reviewers suggesting sticking with Version 4. Following their advice I > uninstalled my current version of Acrobat (ver 5.something) and then went > to oldversions.com and downloaded version 4 and installed it. It > works MUCH > MUCH better! > > If you're having problems with Acrobat being slow. Try removing it and > then installing version 4 and see if that helps. It works for me! I generally avoid viewing Acrobat files from within my browser (that is, using the Acrobat plugin) altogether. A lot of older PDFs aren't "linearized". There is a subformat of the PDF specifications that includes additional data structures and file construction rules so that a PDF file can be optimally viewed over a slow (relative to a local hard disk) network connection, with reduced need for random access within the file. PDFs are basically a tree of objects, and the organization of that tree might be convenient for construction and perfectly adequate for random access from a hard disk, but needs to be rearranged (linearized) for efficient sequential access. This helps the PDF plugin and similar utilities get that first page up faster, and improve page-to-page navigation time when the file isn't local. Otherwise, even the plugin may need to download the entire file before it can be displayed. Even linearized, however, the plugin can still only work most efficiently when the web server from which the file is served is able to respond properly to an HTTP request containing a byte range specification, and not all of them do. IIRC, Acrobat 4 does not linearize files when saving, nor does the stand-alone PDFWriter print driver, so older files may be less than optimal for viewing with the Acrobat Plugin. Acrobat Distiller v4 does optimize/linearize, however, as does Acrobat v5, Distiller v5, and later kin. V5 also provides a batch tool to optimize a group of files. Either way, Erik's suggestion is spot on in my book. There's no way to tell if a file on a web site is linearized, so I always just right-click-and-save so I can view the file locally. Aside from the performance thing, the Acrobat plugin frequently causes my browser to hang randomly and for reasons unknown, so I just avoid it. Patrick From vcf at siconic.com Thu Nov 6 19:49:09 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <001601c3a4af$ee1b1450$3d7ca418@game> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Teo Zenios wrote: > ebay. I am going to continue looking, but I dont like how a few horror > stories are making ebay sound like such a shithole when its not, especially > when people are just promoting a new avenue of selling vintage equipment. When you've had enough bad experiences with eBay, whether it be with eBay itself or various sellers, then yes, it becomes a "shithole". There are many people who've already swore off eBay, but eBay's massive advertising budget enables them to keep growing despite its many flaws. > If the Vintage Computer Marketplace takes off its because people will have > found what they wanted at the price they would pay , not because people are > thumping the fact thats its not ebay (just like linux isnt getting anywhere > when all they talk about is how microsoft sucks instead of making their > product more apealing). Computer collectors should use the VCM because it is just better than eBay where this hobby is concerned. That will be clearly evident once the needed critical mass is reached. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From swtpc6800 at comcast.net Thu Nov 6 19:48:37 2003 From: swtpc6800 at comcast.net (Michael Holley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: S_L_O_W downloads with Adobe Acrobat was Re: Information about a HP 13197 1K WCS for the HP 1000? References: <200311061800.hA6I043S034985@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <001c01c3a4d1$42f6da60$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> Here is a note from the Mentor Graphics SupportNet site. (I work for Mentor.) Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley Adobe Acrobat Reader 6.0 Issue There is a bug within Acrobat 6 which causes SupportNet incompatibility. This issue was identified by Adobe as a known issue with the Acrobat Reader 6.0. This version of the reader is not capable of handling the HTTP headers generated by the SupportNet security system. Solution 1: Save the PDF file to your hard drive, and open it in Adobe Acrobat or Adobe Reader. 1. Right-click the link to the PDF file on the Web site, and then choose Save Target As (Internet Explorer) or Save Link As (Netscape Navigator) from the pop-up menu. 2. In the Save As dialog box, select a location on the hard disk, and then click Save. 3. Double-click the PDF file to open it in Adobe Acrobat or Adobe Reader. Solution 2: Disable Web Browser Integration. 1. In Acrobat or Adobe Reader, choose Edit > Preferences > Internet. 2. Deselect Display PDF in Browser, and then click OK. Solution 3: Use Acrobat 5.x. Remove Acrobat 6.0 or Adobe Reader 6.0, and then install Acrobat 5.x. You can download the free Acrobat Reader 5.1 from the Adobe Web site at www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/alternate.html From ohh at drizzle.com Thu Nov 6 20:10:46 2003 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: PDP-8/I memory problem [FIXED!!!] In-Reply-To: <200311052308.SAA25625@parse.com> Message-ID: Robert Krten posted of his PDP-8/I: > IT WORKS NOW!!! Hoorayyyy! :) :) :) Though I have to admit, I was enjoying the guessing-game much more than I'd expected. :) (I grew up on 8/Is in my youth. The first computer I ever bought was a used 8/I. Now, at age 43, I'm looking for a PDP-12 to keep it company... What d'you think? Is this a midlife crisis manifesting itself here? Wouldn't a Ferrari be more appropriate? ) -O.- From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Nov 6 20:16:41 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: ebay question References: Message-ID: <008601c3a4d5$2edef9a0$3d7ca418@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 8:49 PM Subject: Re: ebay question > On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Teo Zenios wrote: > > > ebay. I am going to continue looking, but I dont like how a few horror > > stories are making ebay sound like such a shithole when its not, especially > > when people are just promoting a new avenue of selling vintage equipment. > > When you've had enough bad experiences with eBay, whether it be with eBay > itself or various sellers, then yes, it becomes a "shithole". There are > many people who've already swore off eBay, but eBay's massive advertising > budget enables them to keep growing despite its many flaws. > > > If the Vintage Computer Marketplace takes off its because people will have > > found what they wanted at the price they would pay , not because people are > > thumping the fact thats its not ebay (just like linux isnt getting anywhere > > when all they talk about is how microsoft sucks instead of making their > > product more apealing). > > Computer collectors should use the VCM because it is just better than > eBay where this hobby is concerned. That will be clearly evident once > the needed critical mass is reached. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- I have bid and won maybe 50+ ebay auctions in the last 2-3 years ranging from a cheap game or batteries for my mac to whole computers and I only had problems with 2 people. One because he changed payment method from what was advertised in his auction (told him no thanks and that ended that, neither of us sent feedback to ebay), and another last month or so when somebody packed a tandy 1000hx + cm5 monitor poorly and the monitor was broke (after a few emails ended up getting the vender to refund my money after he got fedex to pay him). I am sure I havnt made anywhere near the purchases on EBAy you must have made, and most likely you probably had higher ticket items then me (I think $150 was highest price for any 1 item I purchased). But still for the volume I did I have no major complaints with ebay or the sellers I dealt with. I am sure if I was buying high ticket items that cost $500 or more and are tightly graded (like stamps, coins, hummels, etc) then the dishonest people trying to scam you selling inferior goods or nothing at all might start coming out of the woodwork, but that will happen anywhere and at any time. TZ From vcf at siconic.com Thu Nov 6 22:07:30 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <008601c3a4d5$2edef9a0$3d7ca418@game> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Teo Zenios wrote: > I have bid and won maybe 50+ ebay auctions in the last 2-3 years ranging > from a cheap game or batteries for my mac to whole computers and I only had > problems with 2 people. One because he changed payment method from what was > advertised in his auction (told him no thanks and that ended that, neither > of us sent feedback to ebay), and another last month or so when somebody > packed a tandy 1000hx + cm5 monitor poorly and the monitor was broke (after > a few emails ended up getting the vender to refund my money after he got > fedex to pay him). For a while I rarely used eBay (which should've been obvious from all the bad things I had to say about it). Recently I've been using it a lot, because I figure the economy was in such a slump that good deals could finally be had as all the nerds had lost their stock options and their jobs and couldn't bid outrageous sums against me. For the most part it worked, and I got some cool stuff at decent prices. However, that increase in volume has really opened me up to more shitty deals. Worse, when you complain to eBay, if you can find the link to complain at all (I think they have exactly one contact link buried deep within their "help" pages) they do nothing. > I am sure I havnt made anywhere near the purchases on EBAy you must have > made, and most likely you probably had higher ticket items then me (I think > $150 was highest price for any 1 item I purchased). But still for the volume > I did I have no major complaints with ebay or the sellers I dealt with. I am I haven't had many more transactions than you have since I really started buying up stuff on eBay, and the highest amount I paid for anything was $277 (for a new in the box Tiger Learning Computer, worth it :) And to be fair, there have only been less than half a dozen truly bad experiences. But that, compounded with trying in vain to get eBay to do anything about it, and the wholly ineffective feedback system where any complaints about sellers can be rebutted with assinine comments back from the seller (actual feedback: "ALL LOOK OUT WHATS TO NAME HIS OWN SHIPPING PRICE A LOOSER ALL BEWARE BAD E BAYE") even when the seller was completely in the wrong and in total violation of eBay's "rules", makes it overall a sour experience. So most of the reason for the Vintage Computer Marketplace was to develop a site BY and FOR computer collectors to build a community where that kind of crap won't be tolerated. Like Patrick stated previously, when you e-mail the sysops, you get BOTH Patrick and I. Either one or both of us will respond, and promptly (well, except for the "I forgot my password...can you please reset it?" request which I just delete now since I'm sick of pointing out that there is a way for you to do that yourself if you would just RTFM! ;) So that's one very important thing that eBay cannot provide. And since we're a smaller, tighter, and more defined community, the feedback rating system we have is a lot more relevant and effective. > sure if I was buying high ticket items that cost $500 or more and are > tightly graded (like stamps, coins, hummels, etc) then the dishonest people > trying to scam you selling inferior goods or nothing at all might start > coming out of the woodwork, but that will happen anywhere and at any time. I guarantee that if this does somehow get carried out on the VCM, we will know who did it and we will know how to find them and we will help to prosecute. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 6 22:07:32 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: Spending was: ebay question In-Reply-To: <200311061743.57866.jdickens@ameritech.net> from "James Dickens" at Nov 6, 3 05:43:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 571 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031107/78bbccf4/attachment.ksh From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Nov 6 23:14:20 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: Spending was: ebay question References: <200311061743.57866.jdickens@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <001401c3a4ee$0019ac00$3d7ca418@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Dickens" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 6:43 PM Subject: Re: Spending was: ebay question > i spent 10 times the price($1) that i paid for my Sun IPX for a Transceiver > (aui to twisted pair) to connect to my network, and another $10 for a serial > null-modem adapter from radioshack.. no i can't solder cables to save my > life, maybe if i had a $50 temp controlled iron i could.. but that's more > money than the adapter :) > > James > I got one of these: http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=570&item=IR-258&type=store and it works ok for my small electronic jobs (I hate soldering). I think if you mess around with electronics enough you need to get one since you will probably use it at least a few times a year. Tools and original manuals are very important for the hobby. I find that I spend more money upgrading the old computers then the actual cost of the computer itself. Quite a few times I end up paying more for shipping then the item itself costs. And any serious collector will have a large set of spare parts handy including all sorts of cables, adapters, drives, media, monitors, etc. I also go nuts on original software and manuals for my units. So buying a cheap 8/16 bit computer means I will spend many times that amount for addons plus lots of space to set it up and store those addons. Collecting tends to snowball on you if your not carefull. Thanks god I didnt get into the larger older stuff that needs higher voltage and tons of space to run, then again I am still young who knows where this will go. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Nov 6 23:26:16 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: Outphaseing of technology (was: Hummer / Asteroids TV commercial) References: Message-ID: <3FAB2CF8.2010803@jetnet.ab.ca> William Donzelli wrote: >>Ok, now it gets slicky ... Tony, you're maybe one of the few >>that can somehow proof me wrong, but I doubt that anybody >>will come around with a homegrown 14" B/W CRT to replace a >>damaged for any 1970s terminal I have, nor with any colour >>CRT, not even a rather rough one like used in the IIgs colour >>screen. > There is a very good article in a recent Tube Collector (yes, there is a > magazine for those that collect tubes) called "Heartache on the Factory > Floor", or something like that. > Here is a good read for State of the ART, Spring 1954. http://home.att.net/~pldexnis/restoretv.html Long live COLOR TV! From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Nov 6 23:47:42 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: PERQ reference book (was: The Geek Test...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031107054225.GB17925@rhiannon.rddavis.org> While I only scored about 22% on the Geek Test, it didn't have any questions pertaining to writing and editing about 300 pages of documentation for a twenty year old computer system that wasn't well known, and doing so about twenty years after it was manufactured. While printing out some files of less "geekish" writings, I discovered some, rather lengthy, documentation that I was working on about a decade ago, and never got around to comleting. So... what did I do? Well, originally, I wrote the documentation for the MINT document processing software, which is somewhat like Scribe, which ran on PERQ workstations (the documentation is about PERQs). Today, I converted the MINT source file to a LaTeX file. It only contains about 50 chapters and is only about 300 pages in length, not counting the index which I haven't added to it yet. It's sort of a compendum of all sorts of interesting bits of information (technical as well as historical) about PERQs, gleaned from conversations with others, note from OS source code, varions documents from PERQ systems, etc., etc., etc. Not complete yet... maybe it will be in another decade at the rate I'm going, but I felt that I should at least get it into a printable format and prepare to pass it along to other PERQ fanatics in case I croak, so that it won't vanish into the land of /dev/null... and so that others can contribute to it, and help preserve it, to make it the ultimate unofficial PERQ reference book once it's completed. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Nov 7 03:36:25 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: References: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Nov 5, 3 08:56:59 pm Message-ID: <3FAB75A9.12512.6FBA062A@localhost> > > > However, a couple of questions caught my eye. It asks if you've 'done a > > > 500+ piece puzzle'. I assume it means a jigsaw puzzle. Does completely > > > stripping and reassembling an ASR33 without the manuals count? Well, I still try to get the idea what's so special about a 500+ part jigsaw. It nedsa at least two more entries as in 'done a 1500+' and 'done a 1500+ puzzle ot the moon or a similar low detail object'. At least over here, 500+ jigsaws are still quite common, that's a freebee for most Germans. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From gerold.pauler at gmx.net Fri Nov 7 05:44:14 2003 From: gerold.pauler at gmx.net (Gerold Pauler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: DEC RK8E clone by Plessey References: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Nov 5, 3 08:56:59 pm <3FAB75A9.12512.6FBA062A@localhost> Message-ID: <3FAB858E.2080700@gmx.net> Hello, finally I finished the reverse engineering of my plessey rk8e clone modules. I took the original DEC rk8e drawings as a starting point and I only publish the modified pages. So for a complete set you also need the DEC rk8e drawings. The modified drawings (> 8 mb) are available from: http://pdp8.de/download Hope someone is interested in them (at least I am) ;-) Gerold Just an 18% geek -- http://pdp8.de http://pdp8.de/en From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Fri Nov 7 07:52:43 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: Not quite 10 years old? Digital Alpha PC64 parts... Message-ID: <3FABA3AB.71977045@comcast.net> Well, I'm finally getting around to building up my Digital Alpha PC64/275MHz box. Only problem is I have no L2 cache SIMMs, so it won't boot up at the moment. Plus, I still have to rewire my ATX power supply for it. Got the mother board connectors from a dead donor Aspen Alpine box :) Tried a regular AT power supply on the PC64, but since there is no cache, no go... Anybody know where I can get some cache for cheap/trade? -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Nov 7 07:59:44 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: TRON... Message-ID: <200311071359.IAA07594@wordstock.com> I just saw TRON again last night... Very cool movie IMHO. In the beginning of the movie it looks like Flynn is using an Apple computer to hack into ENCOM. There is also a scene where the heros are running through a huge room filled with mainframes. Does anyone know if these were real mainframes and if so, what kind are they? Cheers, Bryan Pope From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Fri Nov 7 08:40:43 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: need addresses of some large computer junkyards Message-ID: <3FABAEEB.7000203@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, not that I want to go hunting on your turf :-) but I need to buy a lot of older untested RZ28 and RZ29 disks (hundreds) for cheap. So I have contacted the places I know of and may get perhaps half of what I need from one. So I need more addresses where I can ask. The focus is on computer-junkyard and not so much reseller becasue I want to buy untested possibly failed equipment. thanks four your hints, -Gunther From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Nov 7 09:05:41 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:54 2005 Subject: TRON... References: <200311071359.IAA07594@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <002101c3a540$9ca0a6d0$1e02a8c0@WNYC1145744> As I recall, they used many scenes of "ENCOM" in the Lawrence Livermore Laboratory. The Apple he used in the movie was an Apple /// Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Pope" To: Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 8:59 AM Subject: TRON... > > I just saw TRON again last night... Very cool movie IMHO. In the > beginning of the movie it looks like Flynn is using an Apple computer to > hack into ENCOM. > > There is also a scene where the heros are running through a huge room filled > with mainframes. Does anyone know if these were real mainframes and if so, > what kind are they? > > Cheers, > > Bryan Pope > From christine.saeumel at lkh-bruck.at Fri Nov 7 08:57:31 2003 From: christine.saeumel at lkh-bruck.at (Saeumel Christine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: Compaq slt 286 Message-ID: I have a laptop SLT 286. On start error massage appears: 1970 Disk 0 error 162 setup not installed (run setup) Insert diagnostik diskette in the drive A (resume = "F1" key) Afterwards I can not access hard disk. Please can you send me the diagnostik diskette Prim.Dr.Stjepan Varosanec From allain at panix.com Fri Nov 7 09:32:18 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: TRON... References: <200311071359.IAA07594@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <003501c3a544$54aba4c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Everything's real. The start of one shot is on a Data General mini, it pans across a Cray all too quickly, then rows and rows of those CDC disk drives we've been talking about. There's probably a traditional mainframe in there too, I didn't recognize any, but hey, its a Cray. John A. and 5 tons of CDC's fit on about 2 microdrives nowadays. Yikes! From vcf at siconic.com Fri Nov 7 10:06:41 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: TRON... In-Reply-To: <200311071359.IAA07594@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Nov 2003, Bryan Pope wrote: > I just saw TRON again last night... Very cool movie IMHO. In the > beginning of the movie it looks like Flynn is using an Apple computer to > hack into ENCOM. Specifically, an Apple ///. > There is also a scene where the heros are running through a huge room filled > with mainframes. Does anyone know if these were real mainframes and if so, > what kind are they? I'd have to watch it again to check... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From gerold.pauler at gmx.net Fri Nov 7 10:38:41 2003 From: gerold.pauler at gmx.net (Gerold Pauler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: DEC RK8E clone by Plessey References: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Nov 5, 3 08:56:59 pm <3FAB75A9.12512.6FBA062A@localhost> <3FAB858E.2080700@gmx.net> Message-ID: <3FABCA91.6060308@gmx.net> Gerold Pauler wrote: > Hello, > finally I finished the reverse engineering of my plessey rk8e clone > modules. > I took the original DEC rk8e drawings as a starting point and I only > publish the modified pages. > So for a complete set you also need the DEC rk8e drawings. > The modified drawings (> 8 mb) are available from: > http://pdp8.de/download Now also available as .pdf file (about 2.4 megs, thanks to David Gesswein) and .tif modified to bitmap to reduce size to 2.7 megs. CUOI Gerold From jbmcb at hotmail.com Fri Nov 7 10:41:16 2003 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: TRON... References: <200311071359.IAA07594@wordstock.com> <002101c3a540$9ca0a6d0$1e02a8c0@WNYC1145744> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curt Vendel" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 10:05 AM Subject: Re: TRON... > As I recall, they used many scenes of "ENCOM" in the Lawrence Livermore > Laboratory. > > The Apple he used in the movie was an Apple /// > > > > Curt Many films are shot using various parts of Livermore, especially the gigantic three story tall van de Graf generator room. I think an episode of the X-Files was shot there. Also, many huge computer room shots are taken from there, though the NCSA is also used. I wonder where the Syd Mead designed computer desk Dillinger designed is being kept... From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Nov 7 11:35:06 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: TRON... In-Reply-To: <003501c3a544$54aba4c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <200311071359.IAA07594@wordstock.com> <003501c3a544$54aba4c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20031107093347.U19816@newshell.lmi.net> > Everything's real. particularly all of the action shots when they are inside the computer! "Send in the logic probe!" From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Nov 7 11:43:08 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: TRON... References: <200311071359.IAA07594@wordstock.com><002101c3a540$9ca0a6d0$1e02a8c0@WNYC1145744> Message-ID: <004e01c3a556$9ba2bcd0$1e02a8c0@WNYC1145744> That desk was killer !!!! I think all us geeks gawked into drooling awe at wanting a desk/computer just like that (and still do ;-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason McBrien" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 11:41 AM Subject: Re: TRON... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Curt Vendel" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 10:05 AM > Subject: Re: TRON... > > > > As I recall, they used many scenes of "ENCOM" in the Lawrence Livermore > > Laboratory. > > > > The Apple he used in the movie was an Apple /// > > > > > > > > Curt > > Many films are shot using various parts of Livermore, especially the > gigantic three story tall van de Graf generator room. I think an episode of > the X-Files was shot there. Also, many huge computer room shots are taken > from there, though the NCSA is also used. > > I wonder where the Syd Mead designed computer desk Dillinger designed is > being kept... From stever at nortelnetworks.com Fri Nov 7 10:13:30 2003 From: stever at nortelnetworks.com (Steve Rizewiski) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: Apple SCSI revC Message-ID: <3FABC4AA.9090508@nortelnetworks.com> Hi, I have the Rev'C' upgrade EPROM available for $12US and shipping is included. From tomj at wps.com Fri Nov 7 12:55:47 2003 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: Friden Flexowriter interface timing signals Message-ID: <1068190345.5419.63.camel@fiche-wireless> I'm making a Friden Flexowriter simulator to bring up my LGP-21 (solid-state follow-on to the LGP-30). I do not have access to the LGP-21 Flexowriter, which is modified from a "standard" (sic) flexo in a number of ways (peculiar code set, special fromt-panel switches). I have hardware documentation for the LGP, which includes a fair chunk of Flexo data (schematic, etc) but it's not much help with the interface timing. I think it's likely the signal names are standard (sic) Friden, but I don't know. (The simulator will be PIC-based, and will diddle the interface signals under control of host-resident software, to which it'll talk to via serial port.) I'm assuming it's a "busy/done" system, eg. to print, the computer sets up print data (before point a, below) then asserts the strobe or gate on (at a). (call it Print Start, or interface "busy"). When the Flexo has assimilated the data, it asserts Print End, or "done", at b, which clears Print Start; when Print End deasserts, at c, the interface is ready to begin the next cycle: a b c +---------+ | | to flexo START -----------+ +--------------- +----------+ | | from flexo END ---------------------+ +---- I believe receive is similar, with the directions reverse of course. Specifically, I can't determine the timing relationships of signals: (print) Tx print start? JL29 print end? (receive) Xs receive start? Sr receive end? JL12 "start input cycle" JL11 "end of flex input cycle" Receive especially bugs me, since it appears to be two sets of handshake that do the same thing. The descriptions in "quotes" are from the LGP-21 algebraic descriptions of the Flex interface. (There are also signals JL32, JL33, JL28-20, and LGP-specific Friden switches "START COMPUTE", and maybe "MANUAL INPUT", which the LGP sees in some manner.) Here's the Flexowriter cable end pinouts, if it's any help. Flexowriter connector (JL) P38, end of cable to J19. to/from flexo 01 TP5 to Print data 02 TP4 to Print data 03 TP3 to Print data 04 TP2 to Print data 05 TP1 to Print data 06 TP6 to Print data 07 Tx to Print start ("busy") 08 -60V from 09 Sr to Receive end ("done") 10 /BQ from Manual input 11 JL11 from "End of flex input cycle"? 12 JL12 from "Start input cycle" 13 P5* from Receive data 14 /P5* from Receive data 15 P4* from Receive data 16 /P4* from Receive data 17 P3* from Receive data 18 /P3* from Receive data 19 P2* from Receive data 20 /P2* from Receive data 21 P1* from Receive data 22 /P1* from Receive data 23 P6* from Receive data 24 /P6* from Receive data 25 SIGNAL GROUND 26 27 Xs from Receive start ("busy") 28 JL28-20 to 29 JL29 from Print end ("done") 30 31 SIGNAL GROUND 32 JL32 to 33 JL33 from "translator cam"? 34 SIGNAL GROUND 35 117AC to 36 117AC to 37 CHASSIS GROUND From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Nov 7 12:50:56 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: TRON... In-Reply-To: <004e01c3a556$9ba2bcd0$1e02a8c0@WNYC1145744> Message-ID: <3FABF7A0.25883.71B5B275@localhost> > > > As I recall, they used many scenes of "ENCOM" in the Lawrence Livermore > > > Laboratory. > > > The Apple he used in the movie was an Apple /// > > Many films are shot using various parts of Livermore, especially the > > gigantic three story tall van de Graf generator room. I think an episode > > of > > the X-Files was shot there. Also, many huge computer room shots are taken > > from there, though the NCSA is also used. > > I wonder where the Syd Mead designed computer desk Dillinger designed is > > being kept... > That desk was killer !!!! I think all us geeks gawked into drooling awe at > wanting a desk/computer just like that (and still do ;-) I guess nowhere. The desk (realy an old geeks dream), was just glas and back projection, no real funktion :( I most definitly suggest to get the DVD. Unlike most other DVDs, all the supplementery stuff is woth the money. They point out everything in the comentary tracks. It may destroy some deams about how they did it, but then it's full of geek stories. They did realy put in a lot of computer thinking - or at least they are claiming now in a beliveable way. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From zofeiming at prodigy.net Fri Nov 7 13:02:29 2003 From: zofeiming at prodigy.net (zofeiming) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: simh Message-ID: <004a01c3a561$b1dfa2a0$cbc24b43@mid2> Cannot ipl ibm1130 have the software don't know how to assemble boot deck what do i need to do? mark From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Nov 7 13:00:18 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: TRON... In-Reply-To: <3FABF7A0.25883.71B5B275@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Nov 7, 03 07:50:56 pm Message-ID: <200311071900.OAA06188@wordstock.com> And thusly Hans Franke spake: > > I most definitly suggest to get the DVD. Unlike most other DVDs, > all the supplementery stuff is woth the money. They point out > everything in the comentary tracks. It may destroy some deams > about how they did it, but then it's full of geek stories. They > did realy put in a lot of computer thinking - or at least they > are claiming now in a beliveable way. Like the programs almost always saying "End of line" after saying something? :-D Cheers, Bryan From emu at ecubics.com Fri Nov 7 14:37:00 2003 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: TRON... In-Reply-To: <3FABF7A0.25883.71B5B275@localhost> References: <3FABF7A0.25883.71B5B275@localhost> Message-ID: <3FAC026C.7090008@ecubics.com> Hans Franke wrote: > I most definitly suggest to get the DVD. Unlike most other DVDs, > all the supplementery stuff is woth the money. They point out > everything in the comentary tracks. It may destroy some deams > about how they did it, but then it's full of geek stories. They > did realy put in a lot of computer thinking - or at least they > are claiming now in a beliveable way. November 1982 issue of Byte was a nice artice about it too. cheers From spc at conman.org Fri Nov 7 15:09:23 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... In-Reply-To: <3FAB75A9.12512.6FBA062A@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Nov 07, 2003 10:36:25 AM Message-ID: <20031107210923.90FAB1416D8B@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Hans Franke once stated: > > Well, I still try to get the idea what's so special about > a 500+ part jigsaw. It nedsa at least two more entries as > in 'done a 1500+' and 'done a 1500+ puzzle ot the moon or > a similar low detail object'. I did a 1000 piece puzzle of the constellations, but I think the most difficult puzzle I've seen was a 1000+ piece puzzle of a bucket of worms, each piece being the same size and shape (it's either that, or the 1000+ puzzle where the resulting image was of randomly colored puzzle pieces, but each piece of the *actual* puzzle was the same size and shape). -spc (To pull this back to topic, I have a puzzle I did about 15 years ago about the inner secret workings of the computer) From kenacms at ngatoro.terrigal.net.au Fri Nov 7 16:05:27 2003 From: kenacms at ngatoro.terrigal.net.au (Ken Kirkby (ACMS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: PDP-11/44 want list In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20031104114347.00765860@pop.earthlink.net> from "will kranz" at Nov 4, 3 11:43:47 am Message-ID: <200311072156.hA7Lu9n06710@ngatoro.terrigal.net.au> > > John > On Tue Oct 8 20:11:58 2002, you posted about your 11/44. > I was searching for help with the H7140 power supply when > I came across your post. I recently tried to power up > a system I got a couple years ago, and have a flashing 'DC On' > indicator. I don't know how serious this is, or if I might > be able to repair/adjust it with some guidance. Suggestions? > I have no documentation on the power supply. > > Thanks. > As other posters have pointed out the PDP11/44 power supply is lethal. I have had one go up in a very big bang. However it may not be be the powersupply. It could be a failed temperature sensor card in the power supply. Its a card generally on green pcb material with a thermistor on the card. If the thermistor fails the power supply wont start. But on rereading your post you it seems more likely as previously advised that one rail is below spec. Be carefull. Ken Kirkby Australia. From kenacms at ngatoro.terrigal.net.au Fri Nov 7 16:39:20 2003 From: kenacms at ngatoro.terrigal.net.au (Ken Kirkby (ACMS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: MDOS (Motorola EXORciser) disk format ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031102174231.007eb600@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Nov 2, 3 05:42:31 pm Message-ID: <200311072230.hA7MU0x07377@ngatoro.terrigal.net.au> My recollection was that i have a program from DECUS that runs on RT11 on PDP11s which converts Exorcisor formats to DEC RT11 formats from which they are readily converted to CP/M formats using another DECUS program. I cant locate my DECUS catalogues to give you the program number at the momentt but there were the three programs Intel/ISIS to RT11, Exorciser to RT11 and C/PM to RT11... You need to look on one of the DECUS archive machines, and find some one with a DEC RT11 system with RX02 8inch floppys. They should be able to recover the data for you in a format of your choice. If you dont have luck, and it has to be done, come back to me. Ken Kirkby PLC Peripherals, Australia. www.plc-peripherals.com. > > I strongly suspect that you'll need an EXORciser system. Mike Haas has a > couple but I don't know if they're working or even complete. What's on the > disks? The EXORciser was a developement system for EXORbus computers. > > Joe > > > At 02:07 PM 11/2/03 -0600, you wrote: > >A friend of mine has a pile (55) 8" floppies which were created > >on a Motorola EXORciser MDOS system. Does anyone know if the data > >on these disks can be recovered on a CPM system or similar, or will > >he need to find an EXORciser? > > > >--tnx > >--tom > > > > > From owen at bardstown.com Fri Nov 7 16:45:52 2003 From: owen at bardstown.com (owen@bardstown.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: SGI Indy 13w3 question Message-ID: <200311072245.hA7Mjqw24948@mail.bardstown.com> I just bought a rad Indy from EBay. It seems to start up fine, as shown by the rockin' startup music! However... I can't get video... I have a 13w3 --> VGA adapter that was supposed to work with it. The light on the Indy goes green but my NEC Multisync monitor stays red. I tried the adapter on my IBM POWERstation and saw the NEC monitor turn amber. Any thoughts? -o From vance at neurotica.com Fri Nov 7 18:09:34 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: SGI Indy 13w3 question In-Reply-To: <200311072245.hA7Mjqw24948@mail.bardstown.com> References: <200311072245.hA7Mjqw24948@mail.bardstown.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 owen@bardstown.com wrote: > I just bought a rad Indy from EBay. It seems to start up fine, as shown > by the rockin' startup music! However... I can't get video... I have a > 13w3 --> VGA adapter that was supposed to work with it. The light on > the Indy goes green but my NEC Multisync monitor stays red. I tried the > adapter on my IBM POWERstation and saw the NEC monitor turn amber. Any > thoughts? Sun Adapter != IBM Adapter != SGI Adapter If you have a Sun Adapter, it will not work on your SGI, and it will not work on your RS/6000. Peace... Sridhar From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Nov 7 18:33:47 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: SGI Indy 13w3 question In-Reply-To: vance@neurotica.com "Re: SGI Indy 13w3 question" (Nov 7, 19:09) References: <200311072245.hA7Mjqw24948@mail.bardstown.com> Message-ID: <10311080033.ZM4998@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 7, 19:09, vance@neurotica.com wrote: > On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 owen@bardstown.com wrote: > > > I just bought a rad Indy from EBay. It seems to start up fine, as shown > > by the rockin' startup music! However... I can't get video... I have a > > 13w3 --> VGA adapter that was supposed to work with it. The light on > > the Indy goes green but my NEC Multisync monitor stays red. I tried the > > adapter on my IBM POWERstation and saw the NEC monitor turn amber. Any > > thoughts? > > Sun Adapter != IBM Adapter != SGI Adapter > > If you have a Sun Adapter, it will not work on your SGI, and it will not > work on your RS/6000. Indeed, though it may be worth mentioning that the Indy also provides sync-on-green, and if you have a monitor which also supports sync-on-green, you might get it to work that way. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Fri Nov 7 18:42:38 2003 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: SGI Indy 13w3 question References: <200311072245.hA7Mjqw24948@mail.bardstown.com> Message-ID: <001101c3a591$3bbfeaa0$eb0af88f@laptop> > Sun Adapter != IBM Adapter != SGI Adapter That's weird because my Sun adapter definitely works on my Indy. Maybe it a question of what sync types your monitor supports. Eric From ryan at hack.net Fri Nov 7 18:46:19 2003 From: ryan at hack.net (Ryan K. Brooks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: SGI Indy 13w3 question In-Reply-To: <200311072245.hA7Mjqw24948@mail.bardstown.com> References: <200311072245.hA7Mjqw24948@mail.bardstown.com> Message-ID: <3FAC3CDB.5060502@hack.net> owen@bardstown.com wrote: >I just bought a rad Indy from EBay. It seems to start up fine, as shown by the >rockin' startup music! However... I can't get video... I have a 13w3 --> VGA >adapter that was supposed to work with it. The light on the Indy goes green but >my NEC Multisync monitor stays red. I tried the adapter on my IBM POWERstation >and saw the NEC monitor turn amber. Any thoughts? > >-o > > > > Does your monitor support the scan rates in question? From dholland at woh.rr.com Fri Nov 7 19:47:58 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: SGI Indy 13w3 question In-Reply-To: <3FAC3CDB.5060502@hack.net> References: <200311072245.hA7Mjqw24948@mail.bardstown.com> <3FAC3CDB.5060502@hack.net> Message-ID: <1068256077.6078.46.camel@crusader> And has the console device NVRAM setting set to the graphics adapter? (If I remember correctly, you get black screen if its set to serial even w/ graphics boards in one.) You might try pulling the graphics adapters out, unplugging the keyboard, and hooking up a serial console. David On Fri, 2003-11-07 at 19:46, Ryan K. Brooks wrote: > owen@bardstown.com wrote: > > >I just bought a rad Indy from EBay. It seems to start up fine, as shown by the > >rockin' startup music! However... I can't get video... I have a 13w3 --> VGA > >adapter that was supposed to work with it. The light on the Indy goes green but > >my NEC Multisync monitor stays red. I tried the adapter on my IBM POWERstation > >and saw the NEC monitor turn amber. Any thoughts? > > > >-o > > > > > > > > > Does your monitor support the scan rates in question? From vance at neurotica.com Fri Nov 7 19:23:38 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: SGI Indy 13w3 question In-Reply-To: <001101c3a591$3bbfeaa0$eb0af88f@laptop> References: <200311072245.hA7Mjqw24948@mail.bardstown.com> <001101c3a591$3bbfeaa0$eb0af88f@laptop> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Nov 2003, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > > Sun Adapter != IBM Adapter != SGI Adapter > > That's weird because my Sun adapter definitely works on my Indy. Maybe > it a question of what sync types your monitor supports. It's not the three coax pins which are different. It's the other pins. Peace... Sridhar From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Fri Nov 7 19:28:24 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: IMSAI System Available - but don't shoot the messenger Message-ID: <090a01c3a597$9a6d1270$947ba8c0@p933> I was contacted by someone interested in selling an IMSAI 8080 and related parts. The following are the items available and the prices they are hoping for: IMSAI 8080 Microcomputer $2200 Includes 8080 CPU and Tarbell I/O cards 4K memory cards (16 of them) $ 250 each 64K memory card (1 of them) $ 500 Cromemco Dazzler Graphics cards $ 800 Dual 5 ? inch floppy drive (1) $ 350 8080 micro monitor chip set $ 150 Heath keyboard/monitor (serial) $ 350 I am passing this along in case someone is interested. Please contact Sarah at parkrangersara@hotmail.com if you are. Rumor has it that she's already been offered $2,000 for the machine. . . The usual disclaimers apply. I have nothing to do with Sarah, the machine, etc. and I am just passing this along for your information or, at worst, your amusement. Best regards, Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From vance at neurotica.com Fri Nov 7 19:49:40 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: IMSAI System Available - but don't shoot the messenger In-Reply-To: <090a01c3a597$9a6d1270$947ba8c0@p933> References: <090a01c3a597$9a6d1270$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Nov 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > I was contacted by someone interested in selling an IMSAI 8080 and > related parts. The following are the items available and the prices > they are hoping for: > > IMSAI 8080 Microcomputer $2200 > Includes 8080 CPU and Tarbell I/O cards > > 4K memory cards (16 of them) $ 250 each > 64K memory card (1 of them) $ 500 > Cromemco Dazzler Graphics cards $ 800 > Dual 5 ? inch floppy drive (1) $ 350 > 8080 micro monitor chip set $ 150 > Heath keyboard/monitor (serial) $ 350 > > I am passing this along in case someone is interested. Please contact > Sarah at parkrangersara@hotmail.com if you are. Rumor has it that she's > already been offered $2,000 for the machine. . . What is she smoking, and where can I get some? 8-) Peace... Sridhar From ryan at hack.net Fri Nov 7 19:45:43 2003 From: ryan at hack.net (Ryan K. Brooks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: SGI Indy 13w3 question In-Reply-To: <1068256077.6078.46.camel@crusader> References: <200311072245.hA7Mjqw24948@mail.bardstown.com> <3FAC3CDB.5060502@hack.net> <1068256077.6078.46.camel@crusader> Message-ID: <3FAC4AC7.6020507@hack.net> Or, leave the keyboard attached and see what comes out of the console... be sure to use a null cable. As a datapoint, my sun 13w3 adapter does work on my Onyx. David's suggestion is a good one; many Indys turned into headless web servers. -Ryan David Holland wrote: >And has the console device NVRAM setting set to the graphics adapter? >(If I remember correctly, you get black screen if its set to serial even >w/ graphics boards in one.) > >You might try pulling the graphics adapters out, unplugging the >keyboard, and hooking up a serial console. > >David > > >On Fri, 2003-11-07 at 19:46, Ryan K. Brooks wrote: > > >>owen@bardstown.com wrote: >> >> >> >>>I just bought a rad Indy from EBay. It seems to start up fine, as shown by the >>>rockin' startup music! However... I can't get video... I have a 13w3 --> VGA >>>adapter that was supposed to work with it. The light on the Indy goes green but >>>my NEC Multisync monitor stays red. I tried the adapter on my IBM POWERstation >>>and saw the NEC monitor turn amber. Any thoughts? >>> >>>-o >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>Does your monitor support the scan rates in question? >> >> > > > > From vance at neurotica.com Fri Nov 7 20:18:20 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: SGI Indy 13w3 question In-Reply-To: <3FAC4AC7.6020507@hack.net> References: <200311072245.hA7Mjqw24948@mail.bardstown.com> <3FAC3CDB.5060502@hack.net> <1068256077.6078.46.camel@crusader> <3FAC4AC7.6020507@hack.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Nov 2003, Ryan K. Brooks wrote: > Or, leave the keyboard attached and see what comes out of the console... > be sure to use a null cable. > > As a datapoint, my sun 13w3 adapter does work on my Onyx. If your Onyx is providing SOG (which I suspect it is), then that isn't a datapoint. It's only when composite or separate sync is provided that it's a problem. Peace... Sridhar From rcini at optonline.net Fri Nov 7 20:24:21 2003 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: IMSAI System Available - but don't shoot the messenger In-Reply-To: <090a01c3a597$9a6d1270$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <000e01c3a59f$6c356e90$1601a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Erik: I received this message privately from Sara, too. I thought that the prices were crazy, even for the machine. The boards are outrageous -- by a factor of 10. She must be trying to pay the final tuition bill at Clemson (the domain name on her original email to me). Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Erik S. Klein Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 8:28 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: IMSAI System Available - but don't shoot the messenger I was contacted by someone interested in selling an IMSAI 8080 and related parts. The following are the items available and the prices they are hoping for: IMSAI 8080 Microcomputer $2200 Includes 8080 CPU and Tarbell I/O cards 4K memory cards (16 of them) $ 250 each 64K memory card (1 of them) $ 500 Cromemco Dazzler Graphics cards $ 800 Dual 5 ? inch floppy drive (1) $ 350 8080 micro monitor chip set $ 150 Heath keyboard/monitor (serial) $ 350 I am passing this along in case someone is interested. Please contact Sarah at parkrangersara@hotmail.com if you are. Rumor has it that she's already been offered $2,000 for the machine. . . The usual disclaimers apply. I have nothing to do with Sarah, the machine, etc. and I am just passing this along for your information or, at worst, your amusement. Best regards, Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From phillipmilks at juno.com Fri Nov 7 20:55:51 2003 From: phillipmilks at juno.com (phillipmilks@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: 8008 assembly code sample/Message-ID: <200310300453.h9U4rGrX014223@swift.cs.unc.edu> Message-ID: <20031107.215552.-866857.0.phillipmilks@juno.com> I have a copy of the original Scelbi 8008 book, which has some short code samples, w/ octal equivalents. I might be able to locate the original 8008 manuals, if you're interested. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From lbickley at bickleywest.com Fri Nov 7 21:04:07 2003 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: SGI Indy 13w3 question In-Reply-To: <200311072245.hA7Mjqw24948@mail.bardstown.com> References: <200311072245.hA7Mjqw24948@mail.bardstown.com> Message-ID: <200311071904.07872.lbickley@bickleywest.com> You've got to use a "sync on green" monitor with all 13W3 sgi products. Secondly, make sure that the 13W3 adapter is for sgi and not sun (different pinouts for monitor "mode" settings). Lyle On Friday 07 November 2003 14:45, owen@bardstown.com wrote: > I just bought a rad Indy from EBay. It seems to start up fine, as shown by > the rockin' startup music! However... I can't get video... I have a 13w3 > --> VGA adapter that was supposed to work with it. The light on the Indy > goes green but my NEC Multisync monitor stays red. I tried the adapter on > my IBM POWERstation and saw the NEC monitor turn amber. Any thoughts? > > -o -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA 94040 "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From lbickley at bickleywest.com Fri Nov 7 21:04:07 2003 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: SGI Indy 13w3 question In-Reply-To: <200311072245.hA7Mjqw24948@mail.bardstown.com> References: <200311072245.hA7Mjqw24948@mail.bardstown.com> Message-ID: <200311071904.07872.lbickley@bickleywest.com> You've got to use a "sync on green" monitor with all 13W3 sgi products. Secondly, make sure that the 13W3 adapter is for sgi and not sun (different pinouts for monitor "mode" settings). Lyle On Friday 07 November 2003 14:45, owen@bardstown.com wrote: > I just bought a rad Indy from EBay. It seems to start up fine, as shown by > the rockin' startup music! However... I can't get video... I have a 13w3 > --> VGA adapter that was supposed to work with it. The light on the Indy > goes green but my NEC Multisync monitor stays red. I tried the adapter on > my IBM POWERstation and saw the NEC monitor turn amber. Any thoughts? > > -o -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA 94040 "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From vcf at siconic.com Fri Nov 7 21:10:49 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: IMSAI System Available - but don't shoot the messenger In-Reply-To: <090a01c3a597$9a6d1270$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Nov 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > I was contacted by someone interested in selling an IMSAI 8080 and > related parts. The following are the items available and the prices > they are hoping for: > > IMSAI 8080 Microcomputer $2200 > Includes 8080 CPU and Tarbell I/O cards > > 4K memory cards (16 of them) $ 250 each > 64K memory card (1 of them) $ 500 > Cromemco Dazzler Graphics cards $ 800 > Dual 5 ? inch floppy drive (1) $ 350 > 8080 micro monitor chip set $ 150 > Heath keyboard/monitor (serial) $ 350 This is a bit, er, "hopeful". > I am passing this along in case someone is interested. Please contact > Sarah at parkrangersara@hotmail.com if you are. Rumor has it that she's > already been offered $2,000 for the machine. . . She should take that before the sucker, er, I mean potential buyer changes their mind. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 7 21:00:57 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: Spending was: ebay question In-Reply-To: <001401c3a4ee$0019ac00$3d7ca418@game> from "Teo Zenios" at Nov 7, 3 00:14:20 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1598 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031108/f45a5100/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 7 21:04:19 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: PERQ reference book (was: The Geek Test...) In-Reply-To: <20031107054225.GB17925@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Nov 7, 3 00:42:25 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 620 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031108/4ee13890/attachment.ksh From lbickley at bickleywest.com Fri Nov 7 21:15:52 2003 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: SGI Indy 13w3 question In-Reply-To: <200311080306.hA836iw08762@mail.bardstown.com> References: <200311080306.hA836iw08762@mail.bardstown.com> Message-ID: <200311071915.52178.lbickley@bickleywest.com> You'll have to look at your monitor's documentation. Most high-end monitors are capable of sync-on-green - most inexpensive monitors do not support it. There are adapters that "attempt" to create standard sync signals from the sync-on-green, but I've had mixed results (at best) with them. Your best bet is to pick up a nice sgi monitor (20"). Depending on where you live, you'll find them modest in price and if they are working properly, they have outstanding color, etc. Lyle On Friday 07 November 2003 19:06, you wrote: > Ohboy. How can I tell if my monitor is sync on green? Documentation? Is > there an adapter to change this? > > -o > > > You've got to use a "sync on green" monitor with all 13W3 sgi products. > > Secondly, make sure that the 13W3 adapter is for sgi and not sun > > (different pinouts for monitor "mode" settings). > > > > Lyle > > > > On Friday 07 November 2003 14:45, owen@bardstown.com wrote: > > > I just bought a rad Indy from EBay. It seems to start up fine, as shown > > > by the rockin' startup music! However... I can't get video... I have a > > > 13w3 --> VGA adapter that was supposed to work with it. The light on > > > the Indy goes green but my NEC Multisync monitor stays red. I tried the > > > adapter on my IBM POWERstation and saw the NEC monitor turn amber. Any > > > thoughts? > > > > > > -o > > > > -- > > Lyle Bickley > > Bickley Consulting West Inc. > > Mountain View, CA 94040 > > "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA 94040 "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From jdickens at ameritech.net Fri Nov 7 21:14:58 2003 From: jdickens at ameritech.net (James Dickens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: SGI Indy 13w3 question In-Reply-To: <200311071904.07872.lbickley@bickleywest.com> References: <200311072245.hA7Mjqw24948@mail.bardstown.com> <200311071904.07872.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: <200311072114.58798.jdickens@ameritech.net> I have a sun 17" monitor that works fine on all my SGI boxes, 2x indy, and a indigo2, not to mention my sun's.. ultra 2 creator 3d and a cg6 card. So not sure if the pin outs are that different or if i got lucky, i know all SGI's except a couple require sync-on-green James On Friday 07 November 2003 21:04, Lyle Bickley wrote: > You've got to use a "sync on green" monitor with all 13W3 sgi products. > Secondly, make sure that the 13W3 adapter is for sgi and not sun (different > pinouts for monitor "mode" settings). > > Lyle > > On Friday 07 November 2003 14:45, owen@bardstown.com wrote: > > I just bought a rad Indy from EBay. It seems to start up fine, as shown > > by the rockin' startup music! However... I can't get video... I have a > > 13w3 --> VGA adapter that was supposed to work with it. The light on the > > Indy goes green but my NEC Multisync monitor stays red. I tried the > > adapter on my IBM POWERstation and saw the NEC monitor turn amber. Any > > thoughts? > > > > -o From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Nov 7 22:16:26 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: PERQ reference book (was: The Geek Test...) In-Reply-To: References: <20031107054225.GB17925@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20031108041120.GE17925@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Sat, Nov 08, 2003 at 03:04:19AM +0000: > This reminds me... Somewhere I have the LaTeX source to the PERQ CPU > technical description. This was a set of notes from a talk I attended on > the PERQ CPU, and I know the original author won't mind it being > distributed (I have no idea if anyone else would object, it does contain > things like the PERQ CPU PAL equations...). I think it even covers the > rare 24 bit version... Anyone interested? That, is an excellent document; proper computer documentation! Do you think the author would object to it being included within other documentation, with credit given to the author, or to a pseudoname for him, should he wish to use one? Somewhere I have a copy of these as well from that author - not sure where, however. Of course, I do know where the printed copy of it is. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From brianm at natcfl.com Sat Nov 8 00:53:22 2003 From: brianm at natcfl.com (Brian Mahler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: PFS:WinWorks Message-ID: Did you ever find a converter for PFS:Winworks or maybe a copy of the program itself? I am needing to convert 300+ documents and trying to find a solution. Brian Mahler National Computer Forensics Lab From deerose11 at dslextreme.com Fri Nov 7 18:44:21 2003 From: deerose11 at dslextreme.com (deerose11@dslextreme.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: TIL308 Message-ID: <45217.68.165.180.118.1068252261.squirrel@www.dslextreme.com> Frank, Do you still have any TIL308 BCD Display Driver LED? If you do I would be interested to buy them. Thank you, Dee Rose Orbit Sytsems 949-852-9999 ext 224 949-261-9999 fax From imadepancakes at juno.com Sat Nov 8 00:01:00 2003 From: imadepancakes at juno.com (billy j camdon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: Do you have a Mac SE internal SCSI hardrive??? Message-ID: <20031108.010101.1832.0.imadepancakes@juno.com> I am looking for a hard drive for my MAC SE. I would need the cable to connect it to my computer. An external HD would be ok if you dont have an internal one. Thanks Bill ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Nov 8 03:40:54 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: Do you have a Mac SE internal SCSI hardrive??? In-Reply-To: <20031108.010101.1832.0.imadepancakes@juno.com> References: <20031108.010101.1832.0.imadepancakes@juno.com> Message-ID: <2883.65.123.179.153.1068284454.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> What size do you need? I've got some apple/Quantums up to 240 meg. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO > I am looking for a hard drive for my MAC SE. I would need the cable to > connect it to my computer. An external HD would be ok if you dont have an > internal one. > > Thanks > > > Bill From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Nov 8 05:42:34 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: SGI Indy 13w3 question In-Reply-To: Lyle Bickley "Re: SGI Indy 13w3 question" (Nov 7, 19:04) References: <200311072245.hA7Mjqw24948@mail.bardstown.com> <200311071904.07872.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: <10311081142.ZM5333@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 7, 19:04, Lyle Bickley wrote: > You've got to use a "sync on green" monitor with all 13W3 sgi products. No you don't. You can use separate sync if you connect to the right pins. This is true for Indigo, Indy, and Indigo^2, and probably older ones too. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Nov 8 05:44:06 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: SGI Indy 13w3 question In-Reply-To: David Holland "Re: SGI Indy 13w3 question" (Nov 7, 20:47) References: <200311072245.hA7Mjqw24948@mail.bardstown.com> <3FAC3CDB.5060502@hack.net> <1068256077.6078.46.camel@crusader> Message-ID: <10311081144.ZM5336@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 7, 20:47, David Holland wrote: > And has the console device NVRAM setting set to the graphics adapter? > (If I remember correctly, you get black screen if its set to serial even > w/ graphics boards in one.) No, you still get something initially. > You might try pulling the graphics adapters out, unplugging the > keyboard, and hooking up a serial console. You don't need to remove the graphics adaptor on an Indy or later machines, and I wouldn't recommend doing so. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Nov 8 05:47:10 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: SGI Indy 13w3 question In-Reply-To: "Eric J. Korpela" "Re: SGI Indy 13w3 question" (Nov 7, 16:42) References: <200311072245.hA7Mjqw24948@mail.bardstown.com> <001101c3a591$3bbfeaa0$eb0af88f@laptop> Message-ID: <10311081147.ZM5342@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 7, 16:42, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > > > Sun Adapter != IBM Adapter != SGI Adapter > > That's weird because my Sun adapter definitely works on my Indy. Maybe it a > question of what > sync types your monitor supports. Suns use different pins for sync than SGIs (and Suns usually use composite sync, while SGI use separate H and V), and SGIs also use some pins for monitor type sensing. However, quite a lot of Suns and most SGIs also provide sync-on-green, so if the monitor supports that, and the other signals don't cause confusion, it should work. Contrary to popular belief, most SGIs from the Indigo onwards do not require a SOG monitor. Sorry, I don't know what the pinouts are for HPs or IBMs (apart from R,G, and B). If anyone cares to tell me, I'll add the info to my crib sheet: 13W3-SGI ================ pin A1 - Red/R-Gnd pin A2 - Green/G-Gnd pin A3 - Blue/B-Gnd pin 1 - monitor type 3 (ground this on old machines, leave open on Indy etc) pin 2 - monitor type 0 (LSB) pin 3 - Composite Sync pin 4 - H Drive pin 5 - V Drive pin 6 - monitor type 1 pin 7 - monitor type 2 (MSB) pin 8 - digital gnd pin 9 - digital gnd pin 10 - digital gnd or Sync 2 13W3-SUN ================ pin A1 - Red/R-Gnd pin A2 - Green/G-Gnd pin A3 - Blue/B-Gnd pin 1 - n/c pin 2 - n/c pin 3 - sense 2 pin 4 - sense ret pin 5 - Composite Sync pin 6 - n/c pin 7 - n/c pin 8 - sense 1 pin 9 - sense 0 pin 10 - C-Sync ret For Indy, Indigo2: MonID monitor guessed 111 no monitor (defaults to lowest res, lowest refresh) 110 Single Scan 1024x768 60Hz 15" 101 Dual Scan 1280x1024 & 1024x768 60Hz 16" 100 Idem 19" 011 MultiScan 1280x1024 & 1024x768 21" 010 1280x1024, 76Hz, 16" (82 kHz line freq.) 001 DM-20 MultiScan 1280x1024 76Hz 19" or Single Scan Sony 1280x1024 72Hz 000 1280x1024 60Hz only for older hi-End: MonID 111 No monitor 110 Single Scan 1024x768 60Hz 15" 010 MultiScan 16" -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sat Nov 8 06:07:10 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: SGI Indy 13w3 question In-Reply-To: <10311081142.ZM5333@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <14A266F0-11E4-11D8-8170-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Saturday, November 8, 2003, at 06:42 AM, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Nov 7, 19:04, Lyle Bickley wrote: >> You've got to use a "sync on green" monitor with all 13W3 sgi > products. > > No you don't. You can use separate sync if you connect to the right > pins. This is true for Indigo, Indy, and Indigo^2, and probably older > ones too. Yeah, you don't _need_ a sync on green monitor, although you can use one. On my Indigo^2, I made a little adapter that let me use a regular VGA monitor that had sync on green. I only connected six wires through - the three colors, and their associated grounds. This prevented the monitor from getting confused by the other signals, and allowed it to sync on green. It worked great for me. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From thedm at sunflower.com Sat Nov 8 07:58:43 2003 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: Do you have a Mac SE internal SCSI hardrive??? References: <20031108.010101.1832.0.imadepancakes@juno.com> <2883.65.123.179.153.1068284454.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: <002901c3a600$6f1b5960$6401a8c0@barton> Anyone have the little hard drive rail for an LC575. I could use one. Thanks, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 3:40 AM Subject: Re: Do you have a Mac SE internal SCSI hardrive??? > What size do you need? I've got some apple/Quantums up to 240 meg. > > Gary Hildebrand > St. Joseph, MO > > > > I am looking for a hard drive for my MAC SE. I would need the cable to > > connect it to my computer. An external HD would be ok if you dont have an > > internal one. > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Bill > From lbickley at bickleywest.com Sat Nov 8 10:06:08 2003 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:55 2005 Subject: SGI Indy 13w3 question In-Reply-To: <10311081142.ZM5333@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <200311072245.hA7Mjqw24948@mail.bardstown.com> <200311071904.07872.lbickley@bickleywest.com> <10311081142.ZM5333@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200311080806.08361.lbickley@bickleywest.com> I own a Personal Iris, multiple Indys, multiple Indigos, multiple Indigo2s, a Crimson, an Octane, an O2, and an Onyx. Only the O2 supports standard VGA signals. The rest are all sync-on-green. There is an adapter which attempts to filter the 13W3 sync-on-green and create the standard VGA sync signals (in fact, I have the schematic somewhere in my collection). I've tried it and the quality of the signal is poor (measured) - and while it does "work" - it doesn't work well. Since sgi systems have such wonderful color (even back to the Personal Iris), it's almost a "travesty" to attempt to use anything but a good sync-on-green monitor with with an sgi. Sync-on-green monitors are not hard to come by - in fact, 20" sgi monitors go for less than $95 here in Silicon Valley. I've seen 17" sync-on-greens going for $35-$45. Lyle On Saturday 08 November 2003 03:42, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Nov 7, 19:04, Lyle Bickley wrote: > > You've got to use a "sync on green" monitor with all 13W3 sgi > > products. > > No you don't. You can use separate sync if you connect to the right > pins. This is true for Indigo, Indy, and Indigo^2, and probably older > ones too. -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA 94040 "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From lbickley at bickleywest.com Sat Nov 8 10:09:26 2003 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: SGI Indy 13w3 question In-Reply-To: <10311081144.ZM5336@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <200311072245.hA7Mjqw24948@mail.bardstown.com> <1068256077.6078.46.camel@crusader> <10311081144.ZM5336@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200311080809.26415.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Whether you get anything but a blank screen IS dependent on NVRAM settings. Even an Onyx with RE2 or IR graphics will show a blank screen if the NVRAM setting is not set for graphics. Lyle On Saturday 08 November 2003 03:44, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Nov 7, 20:47, David Holland wrote: > > And has the console device NVRAM setting set to the graphics adapter? > > (If I remember correctly, you get black screen if its set to serial > > even > > > w/ graphics boards in one.) > > No, you still get something initially. > > > You might try pulling the graphics adapters out, unplugging the > > keyboard, and hooking up a serial console. > > You don't need to remove the graphics adaptor on an Indy or later > machines, and I wouldn't recommend doing so. -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA 94040 "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From lbickley at bickleywest.com Sat Nov 8 10:37:43 2003 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: SGI Indy 13w3 question In-Reply-To: <10311081147.ZM5342@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <200311072245.hA7Mjqw24948@mail.bardstown.com> <001101c3a591$3bbfeaa0$eb0af88f@laptop> <10311081147.ZM5342@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200311080837.43147.lbickley@bickleywest.com> The "Hardware Developers Handbook" from sgi has pages of detailed information on the pinouts of sgi's 13W3 "Monitor Output" - followed by several pages of timing information. Many of the none coax pins are system dependent. Here's sgi's official statement on their 13W3: Coax signals: A1 - Red A2 - Green A3 - Blue Other signals: 1 - See Table 2 - Monitor type 0 3 - See Table 4 - See Table 5 - See Table 6 - Monitor type 1 7 - Monitor type 2 8 - Ground 9 - Ground 10 - Ground This is followed by several pages of detail, but here's the drift: Onyx 1 - Monitor type 3 3 - NC 4 - Stereo Sync 5 - Stereo power +10V Onyx2 1 - SCL (Serial Clock) 2 - Serial Data 3 - NC 4 - Horizonal sync 5 - Vertical sync 6 - DDC (+5V) 7 - DDC Ground Indigo, Indigo2, Indy 3 - Composite sync (dependent on video board) 4 - Horizonal sync (dependent on video board) 5 - Vertical sync (dependet on video board) In total there are 32 pages on video interfaces alone in the manual! That's why I've found its a lot easier to use sgi's own monitors with sgi systems. I have used other monitors - IIyama, etc., but none of them are inexpensive... Lyle On Saturday 08 November 2003 03:47, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Nov 7, 16:42, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > > > Sun Adapter != IBM Adapter != SGI Adapter > > > > That's weird because my Sun adapter definitely works on my Indy. > > Maybe it a > > > question of what > > sync types your monitor supports. > > Suns use different pins for sync than SGIs (and Suns usually use > composite sync, while SGI use separate H and V), and SGIs also use some > pins for monitor type sensing. However, quite a lot of Suns and most > SGIs also provide sync-on-green, so if the monitor supports that, and > the other signals don't cause confusion, it should work. > > Contrary to popular belief, most SGIs from the Indigo onwards do not > require a SOG monitor. > > Sorry, I don't know what the pinouts are for HPs or IBMs (apart from > R,G, and B). If anyone cares to tell me, I'll add the info to my crib > sheet: > > 13W3-SGI > ================ > > pin A1 - Red/R-Gnd > pin A2 - Green/G-Gnd > pin A3 - Blue/B-Gnd > > pin 1 - monitor type 3 (ground this on old machines, leave open on > Indy etc) > pin 2 - monitor type 0 (LSB) > pin 3 - Composite Sync > pin 4 - H Drive > pin 5 - V Drive > pin 6 - monitor type 1 > pin 7 - monitor type 2 (MSB) > pin 8 - digital gnd > pin 9 - digital gnd > pin 10 - digital gnd or Sync 2 > > 13W3-SUN > ================ > > pin A1 - Red/R-Gnd > pin A2 - Green/G-Gnd > pin A3 - Blue/B-Gnd > > pin 1 - n/c > pin 2 - n/c > pin 3 - sense 2 > pin 4 - sense ret > pin 5 - Composite Sync > pin 6 - n/c > pin 7 - n/c > pin 8 - sense 1 > pin 9 - sense 0 > pin 10 - C-Sync ret > > For Indy, Indigo2: > > MonID monitor guessed > 111 no monitor (defaults to lowest res, lowest refresh) > 110 Single Scan 1024x768 60Hz 15" > 101 Dual Scan 1280x1024 & 1024x768 60Hz 16" > 100 Idem 19" > 011 MultiScan 1280x1024 & 1024x768 21" > 010 1280x1024, 76Hz, 16" (82 kHz line freq.) > 001 DM-20 MultiScan 1280x1024 76Hz 19" or Single Scan Sony > 1280x1024 72Hz > 000 1280x1024 60Hz only > > for older hi-End: > > MonID > 111 No monitor > 110 Single Scan 1024x768 60Hz 15" > 010 MultiScan 16" -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA 94040 "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Nov 8 10:53:43 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: SGI Indy 13w3 question In-Reply-To: <10311080033.ZM4998@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <1C9F80F0-120C-11D8-A1CF-000A27B528C2@mdrconsult.com> On Friday, November 7, 2003, at 06:33 PM, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Nov 7, 19:09, vance@neurotica.com wrote: >> On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 owen@bardstown.com wrote: >> >> Sun Adapter != IBM Adapter != SGI Adapter >> >> If you have a Sun Adapter, it will not work on your SGI, and it will > not >> work on your RS/6000. > > Indeed, though it may be worth mentioning that the Indy also provides > sync-on-green, and if you have a monitor which also supports > sync-on-green, you might get it to work that way. IIRC, the Indy *only* provides sync-on-green, which is what confuses the Sun 13W3-HD15 adapter (it expects composite-sync). First check that your monitor accepts SOG. A bunch of the NECs do. Then pull pin 10 out of the 13W3 side of the adapter. If you're using the adapter only with SGI kit, you can pull all the little pins. On the 13W3 side, of course. Doc From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Sat Nov 8 12:29:13 2003 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: info on Data General 6243 terminal? References: <3.0.6.32.20031101182044.00807100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <031701c3a433$abb6ff10$acaafea9@newhare> Message-ID: <01ba01c3a626$390590e0$acaafea9@newhare> G'day - The manuals listed below describing the DG terminals are available on the web for download by request (due to current DG/EMC legal situation they are not made "generally available"). Please contact me off-list for the simple anonymous ftp connect info... Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Ray" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 12:00 AM Subject: Re: info on Data General 6243 terminal? > G'day Joe and Jay - > > I have the following DG doc's already scanned: > > > 014-000746-01__D210-D211_Dasher_Terminal_Users_Manual.tif > 014-001396-00__D216-D216E_and_D412-D462_Terminal_Users_Manual.tif > 014-001767-00__Installing_and_Operating_D216_D216E_D412_D462_Terminals.tif > 014-001767-01__Installing_and_Operating_D216_D216E_D412_D462_Terminals.tif > 014-002057-00__Installing_and_Operating_Your_D216E_D217_D413_and_D463_Termin > als.tif > 014-002057-01__Installing_and_Operating_D216E_D217_D413_D463_Terminals.tif > 015-000102-00__Dasher_D100_D200_Terminals_Maintenance.tif > 042-000255-00__Addendum_to_Installing_and_Operating_D216_D216E_D412_D462_Ter > minals.tif > > What information did you want to know about the D100/200 terminal? Just > contact me off-list. > > Also, you mentioned wanting a DG terminal for your DG computer... > > Bruce > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 4:20 PM > Subject: Re: info on Data General 6243 terminal? > > > > Bill, > > > > Thanks for the tip. I think the 6243 is a Dasher 211. But Paul doesn't > > have a manual for it :-( But I do have a Technical Manual for the "DGC > > Display 6012" and I've offered to let Paul scan it. > > > > Joe > > > > > > At 11:53 AM 11/1/03 -0800, you wrote: > > >On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > > >> Does anyone have any info on the Data General > > >model 6243 terminal? I > > >> found sites that talk about various programs that > > >emulate it but > > >> nothing else. > > >> > > >> Joe > > > > > >Try searching for the terminal's "type" rather than > > >its model number. For instance, model 6242 is type > > >D210. > > > > > >And check out vt100.net; I think I saw a couple > > >Dasher manuals there, though not for my D210. :-( > > >(If anyone out there has a D210 manual, they need > > >to shoot a copy over to Paul at vt100.net.) > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Bill. > > > > > >__________________________________ > > >Do you Yahoo!? > > >Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears > > >http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ > > > > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Nov 8 12:47:16 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: 8080 processor adaptor module? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031108134716.0079dda0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I recently bought a Fluke 9010 test pod. With it, I got a model 210-9080 8080 Processor Adaptor Module made by Wildwood of Phoenix Arizone. This is a pod similar to the Fluke pods. It has a wide ribbon cable coming out of it that terminates in a 40 pin DIP plug presumably to plug into a CPU socket. On the box is a ZIP socket (for the CPU?). It also has a double row of 40 pins that appear to be test points. On the other end of the box is a 20 pin ribbon cable with a ribbon cable socket on the end of it. Does anyone know what this is for or anything about Wildwood? Joe From emu at ecubics.com Sat Nov 8 12:52:44 2003 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: PERQ reference book (was: The Geek Test...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FAD3B7C.2030604@ecubics.com> Tony Duell wrote: >>So... what did I do? Well, originally, I wrote the documentation for >>the MINT document processing software, which is somewhat like Scribe, >>which ran on PERQ workstations (the documentation is about PERQs). > > > This reminds me... Somewhere I have the LaTeX source to the PERQ CPU > technical description. This was a set of notes from a talk I attended on > the PERQ CPU, and I know the original author won't mind it being > distributed (I have no idea if anyone else would object, it does contain > things like the PERQ CPU PAL equations...). I think it even covers the > rare 24 bit version... Anyone interested? What about putting it on Al's site ? From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Nov 8 12:48:58 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa 1 Message-ID: <015801c3a628$f846ad70$3d7ca418@game> Whats an apple lisa 1 worth with twiggy drives? Somebody has one on ebay (2763806974 ) bid at $3,250 (reserve not met) and 3+ days left to go. From vcf at siconic.com Sat Nov 8 13:06:47 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa 1 In-Reply-To: <015801c3a628$f846ad70$3d7ca418@game> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Nov 2003, Teo Zenios wrote: > Whats an apple lisa 1 worth with twiggy drives? > > Somebody has one on ebay (2763806974 ) bid at $3,250 (reserve not met) > and 3+ days left to go. If it fetches less than $8K I'll be shocked. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Nov 8 13:05:14 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: SGI Indy 13w3 question In-Reply-To: Lyle Bickley "Re: SGI Indy 13w3 question" (Nov 8, 8:06) References: <200311072245.hA7Mjqw24948@mail.bardstown.com> <200311071904.07872.lbickley@bickleywest.com> <10311081142.ZM5333@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200311080806.08361.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: <10311081905.ZM5604@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 8, 8:06, Lyle Bickley wrote: > I own a Personal Iris, multiple Indys, multiple Indigos, multiple Indigo2s, a > Crimson, an Octane, an O2, and an Onyx. Only the O2 supports standard VGA > signals. The rest are all sync-on-green. The Indigo, Indy, most Indigo2s, and (AFAIR) the Octane all provide separate syncs as well as sync on green. I have a collection as well. One of my Indys has been used with a lot of different monitors since I bought it in 1995; it's currently using an SGI monitor which only uses the SOG, but previously had a monitor which didn't support SOG. Several of my friends bought reconditioned Indigos from SGI and bought standard VGA monitors with them. I don't know if the Personal Iris or Crimson provide separate syncs (some other 4D series do -- that's why they have more than 3 BNCs), but the later machines do -- and the original question was about an Indy (which does). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dholland at woh.rr.com Sat Nov 8 09:32:49 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: SGI Indy 13w3 question In-Reply-To: <200311072114.58798.jdickens@ameritech.net> References: <200311072245.hA7Mjqw24948@mail.bardstown.com> <200311071904.07872.lbickley@bickleywest.com> <200311072114.58798.jdickens@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <1068305569.3093.6.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> FWIW, if anyone is looking for a "everything" monitor. If you feel like spending it, a Sun 365-1383 can be had for 200$ if you look around. It'll do 1600x1200@75, and has both 13W3, and VGA inputs. So far the one I use has worked on everything I've plugged it into. PC's, Crimson's, Indy's, Octane's, and illogically enough.. Sun's. :-) They're nice monitors, trinitron screen's, and well worth the money (IMHO) - They're probably someone's OEM, but I don't know who's. David On Fri, 2003-11-07 at 22:14, James Dickens wrote: > I have a sun 17" monitor that works fine on all my SGI boxes, 2x indy, and a > indigo2, not to mention my sun's.. ultra 2 creator 3d and a cg6 card. So not > sure if the pin outs are that different or if i got lucky, i know all SGI's > except a couple require sync-on-green > > James > > > On Friday 07 November 2003 21:04, Lyle Bickley wrote: > > You've got to use a "sync on green" monitor with all 13W3 sgi products. > > Secondly, make sure that the 13W3 adapter is for sgi and not sun (different > > pinouts for monitor "mode" settings). > > > > Lyle > > > > On Friday 07 November 2003 14:45, owen@bardstown.com wrote: > > > I just bought a rad Indy from EBay. It seems to start up fine, as shown > > > by the rockin' startup music! However... I can't get video... I have a > > > 13w3 --> VGA adapter that was supposed to work with it. The light on the > > > Indy goes green but my NEC Multisync monitor stays red. I tried the > > > adapter on my IBM POWERstation and saw the NEC monitor turn amber. Any > > > thoughts? > > > > > > -o From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Nov 8 13:59:42 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa 1 In-Reply-To: <015801c3a628$f846ad70$3d7ca418@game> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Teo Zenios > Sent: 08 November 2003 18:49 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Apple Lisa 1 > > > Whats an apple lisa 1 worth with twiggy drives? > > Somebody has one on ebay (2763806974 ) bid at $3,250 (reserve not > met) and 3+ days left to go. Last one that had a Profile and all software on Twiggys went for over $10K...... cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Nov 8 14:03:11 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa 1 In-Reply-To: <015801c3a628$f846ad70$3d7ca418@game> Message-ID: Having just checked the auction I'd just like to say: a) verily, that art beautiful and b) how the fsck does mac512k get so many bloody Lisas to sell on ebay? That's about the 10th I've seen him sell...... cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Teo Zenios > Sent: 08 November 2003 18:49 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Apple Lisa 1 > > > Whats an apple lisa 1 worth with twiggy drives? > > Somebody has one on ebay (2763806974 ) bid at $3,250 (reserve not > met) and 3+ days left to go. From owen at bardstown.com Sat Nov 8 10:22:24 2003 From: owen at bardstown.com (Owen Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: One More 13w3 Question! Message-ID: <3FAD1840.6000603@bardstown.com> Good(ish) news! I plugged in the 13w3 adapter to my Indy, and then a good Sony Trinitron monitor -- and it WORKS! Well... the opening screen does. After that the monitor goes black. I tried it on a random noname monitor from 1992 -- after the "Stop for Maintenance" prompt goes off screen, all the video gets very garbled very fast. Is this an adapter problem? Since I have two monitors here that seem to support sync on green, can I make this work? Thanks! Owen -- Owen Marshall BISI Systems Administration / Tech Support (502)349-9444 x106 From cbajpai at comcast.net Sat Nov 8 14:18:30 2003 From: cbajpai at comcast.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa 1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c3a635$7a3cfa80$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> I'm not sure if they guy who won the auction actually paid - the seller (Adam from Canada, who is avid Lisa collector) seems to be advertising the same system again. I could be that he had more than 1 Lisa-1, but if that was true this would be the 4rd Lisa-1 that was for sale on Ebay in the last 12-18 months. I think it would be unlikely. There was a Lisa-1 from New Zealand that was for sale, but did not meet the reserve some time ago. -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Witchy Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 3:00 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: Apple Lisa 1 > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Teo Zenios > Sent: 08 November 2003 18:49 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Apple Lisa 1 > > > Whats an apple lisa 1 worth with twiggy drives? > > Somebody has one on ebay (2763806974 ) bid at $3,250 (reserve not > met) and 3+ days left to go. Last one that had a Profile and all software on Twiggys went for over $10K...... cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From aek at spies.com Sat Nov 8 15:28:04 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: PERQ reference book (was: The Geek Test...) Message-ID: <200311082128.hA8LS4vu020864@spies.com> > What about putting it on Al's site ? -- I'd be happy to mirror anything Tony or Mr Davis would like added to the bitsavers site. Now that the new domain is running, I was planning on adding other sections besides the pdf's I've just mirrored Van Snyder's 1401 site, now that it has gone behind jpl's firewall is isn't available to the outside world any more. From nemesis-lists at icequake.net Sat Nov 8 16:09:01 2003 From: nemesis-lists at icequake.net (Ryan Underwood) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: SGI Indy 13w3 question (Doc Shipley) In-Reply-To: <200311081800.hA8I023S051054@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200311081800.hA8I023S051054@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20031108220901.GB31034@dbz.icequake.net> > IIRC, the Indy *only* provides sync-on-green, which is what confuses > the Sun 13W3-HD15 adapter (it expects composite-sync). Indy XL and Indigo XZ boards (the ones I have at least) provide composite sync as well. I "fixed" a Sun 13W3->VGA adapter to work on the SGI as put forth here: http://lists.debian.org/debian-mips/2003/debian-mips-200311/msg00013.html -- Ryan Underwood, From lbickley at bickleywest.com Sat Nov 8 17:20:45 2003 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: One More 13w3 Question! In-Reply-To: <3FAD1840.6000603@bardstown.com> References: <3FAD1840.6000603@bardstown.com> Message-ID: <200311081520.45406.lbickley@bickleywest.com> The Sony Trinitron "should" work. You may have a Sun adapter. If it's truly a "sync-on-green" monitor, you should only need the color (coax) connections to make it work. As I suggested before, you might want to connect up a pc running terminal emulation (vt100) on a serial port to the serial port in the Indy. That way you can login as root, run setmon to set the resolution and frequency to something compatible with your monitor (typically 1024x768 at 60Hz). When you finally get it running you can try 70Hz or 75Hz. Lyle On Saturday 08 November 2003 08:22, Owen Marshall wrote: > Good(ish) news! I plugged in the 13w3 adapter to my Indy, and then a > good Sony Trinitron monitor -- and it WORKS! Well... the opening screen > does. After that the monitor goes black. I tried it on a random noname > monitor from 1992 -- after the "Stop for Maintenance" prompt goes off > screen, all the video gets very garbled very fast. Is this an adapter > problem? Since I have two monitors here that seem to support sync on > green, can I make this work? > > Thanks! > > Owen -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA 94040 "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 8 17:17:46 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: PERQ reference book (was: The Geek Test...) In-Reply-To: <20031108041120.GE17925@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Nov 7, 3 11:11:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 745 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031108/10ff0da7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 8 17:19:59 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: PERQ reference book (was: The Geek Test...) In-Reply-To: <3FAD3B7C.2030604@ecubics.com> from "emanuel stiebler" at Nov 8, 3 11:52:44 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 257 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031108/86a9a664/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Sat Nov 8 18:25:59 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: Do you have a Mac SE internal SCSI hardrive??? In-Reply-To: <002901c3a600$6f1b5960$6401a8c0@barton> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Nov 2003, Bill Girnius wrote: > Anyone have the little hard drive rail for an LC575. I could use one. > > Thanks, > > Bill > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 3:40 AM > Subject: Re: Do you have a Mac SE internal SCSI hardrive??? > > > > What size do you need? I've got some apple/Quantums up to 240 meg. > > > > Gary Hildebrand > > St. Joseph, MO > > > > > > > I am looking for a hard drive for my MAC SE. I would need the cable to > > > connect it to my computer. An external HD would be ok if you dont have > an > > > internal one. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > You might also consider checking out "Junkyard Jeff's" website at: www.users.qwest.net/~jgarbacz He handles a lot of bits and pieces for old Macs and PCs also. - don From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Nov 8 19:41:49 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: Do you have a Mac SE internal SCSI hardrive??? References: Message-ID: <000e01c3a662$a50e4ed0$3d7ca418@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 7:25 PM Subject: Re: Do you have a Mac SE internal SCSI hardrive??? > > > On Sat, 8 Nov 2003, Bill Girnius wrote: > > > Anyone have the little hard drive rail for an LC575. I could use one. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bill > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 3:40 AM > > Subject: Re: Do you have a Mac SE internal SCSI hardrive??? > > > > > > > What size do you need? I've got some apple/Quantums up to 240 meg. > > > > > > Gary Hildebrand > > > St. Joseph, MO > > > > > > > > > > I am looking for a hard drive for my MAC SE. I would need the cable to > > > > connect it to my computer. An external HD would be ok if you dont have > > an > > > > internal one. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > You might also consider checking out "Junkyard Jeff's" website at: > > www.users.qwest.net/~jgarbacz > > He handles a lot of bits and pieces for old Macs and PCs also. > > - don > > > I dont think that site has been updated for may years, its dead. From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Nov 8 19:55:33 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: PERQ reference book (was: The Geek Test...) In-Reply-To: References: <20031108041120.GE17925@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20031109015036.GG23488@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Sat, Nov 08, 2003 at 11:17:46PM +0000: > Oh, what the heck. I might as well admit it. I am the author of this It's great to hear you make this announcement publicly! It's about time that did this! ;-) This document that you've written shows that you have to be the number one PERQ Fanatic, and PERQ hardware hacking expert. Well done! > document, and I don't mind at all if you include it in with other > documentation... Thanks! It will be included. Your name goes on the front cover of the document that I mentioned earlier. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From cb at mythtech.net Sat Nov 8 19:47:35 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: Tape backup drives available Message-ID: I have some old tape backup drives I'm getting rid of. I know some of you do data conversion services, so if one of you that does that wants one (or all), they can be had for the cost of shipping. I have a Maynard 150 MB drive plus 14 tapes, a few connecting cables and some ISA and MCA interface cards. This is an external drive, with manual and software (complete setup). Also an Iomega Tape 250 drive and a stack of tapes (not sure the number, but about a dozen or more). This is an internal drive, manual, cables, software are with it. And a Colorado 250 drive. No tapes. External drive, no cables, software, manuals or power supply. And an unknown internal tape drive. All the front says is "250 MB", so its obviously a 250 MB drive. I don't know who makes it or anything else about it. There are no obvious markings on it to determine who makes it. I have no tapes for it, or software or manuals. There is a cable attached to it, looks like it plugs inline into the floppy controller. Also I have a cassette tape drive. Its a TEAC something in an external SCSI case. Uses 120 MB cassette tapes IIRC. I was never able to find the correct tapes for it. I do have a box of the wrong tapes however. Like I said, these are all available for cost of shipping. Preference will go to someone that will use them for data conversion or recovery services (or anything else that directly supports classic computers). But anyone that wants them can ask for them... I'd rather they go to someone instead of the dumpster. -chris From g-wright at worldnet.att.net Sat Nov 8 18:39:08 2003 From: g-wright at worldnet.att.net (g-wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: Motorola MVME 68K boot file sys5.3 ? Message-ID: <3FAD8CAC.F38A8163@worldnet.att.net> Hi, All I just tried to boot my Motorola s8000 which has a 68030 and SCSI controller. All are Motorola Mvme cards . The system lost the boot path. ??? If I use BO 2,0 it finds the IPL loader but needs the file name to boot. I can't seem to guess the right name. Is there a way to interface with the IPL or a way to read the boot path directory. I have no manuals on this or OS tapes. I would also like to find any of the manuals and OS tapes for this. It has a MVME141 processor, and a MVME327 SCSI card. I don't really remember the UNIX version I believe it was 5.3. This has 4 SCSI drives and only the 2,0 finds the IPL loader. - Jerry From evan947 at yahoo.com Sat Nov 8 22:51:30 2003 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: another example of semi-mainstream vintage computing Message-ID: <20031109045130.49848.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> It's 11:50 EST, Saturday night, as I write this message... I just clicked over to eBay.com, and right on the home page, there's a link for "Vintage Arcade Games"... cool. The sublink is this: http://listings.ebay.com/pool1/plistings/list/all/category20269/index.html?from=R4 From esharpe at uswest.net Sat Nov 8 23:26:33 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: *****Re: Apple Lisa 1 References: Message-ID: <004901c3a683$0d2040d0$0100a8c0@SONYDIGITALED> is there a Lisa 1 and a Lisa 2? I thought there was just a Lisa... please educate me! ed sharpe archivist for smecc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 12:06 PM Subject: Re: Apple Lisa 1 > On Sat, 8 Nov 2003, Teo Zenios wrote: > > > Whats an apple lisa 1 worth with twiggy drives? > > > > Somebody has one on ebay (2763806974 ) bid at $3,250 (reserve not met) > > and 3+ days left to go. > > If it fetches less than $8K I'll be shocked. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From nico at farumdata.dk Sun Nov 9 00:05:56 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: Tape backup drives available References: Message-ID: <001f01c3a687$8afbcf20$2201a8c0@finans> From: "chris" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 2:47 AM Subject: Tape backup drives available > I have some old tape backup drives I'm getting rid of. I know some of you > do data conversion services, so if one of you that does that wants one > (or all), they can be had for the cost of shipping. If it wasnt for the cost of shipping (Denmark) I would be interested. I'm getting more and more requests for reading old tapes, so I'm thinking of setting up a "production line" of 486's with DOS, to read all those tapes originating from drives not supported by Windows. Nico From ptremewe at bigpond.net.au Sun Nov 9 00:40:48 2003 From: ptremewe at bigpond.net.au (peter tremewen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: "Knight 2002" Microcomputer References: <20031109045130.49848.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008a01c3a68c$69533980$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> Hi all, Can anyone give me some baic info on the knight 2002 micro computer?? I have "aquired" one, saved from the garbage monster and would love to know at least aproxamatly what I have my hands on. It would apear it is some sort of Apple clone, in a "flip top" case with two 5.25" Fdds, but thats about all I can tell you. Anyone got any ideas?? Peter T. From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Nov 9 01:33:37 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: *****Re: Apple Lisa 1 In-Reply-To: <004901c3a683$0d2040d0$0100a8c0@SONYDIGITALED> References: <004901c3a683$0d2040d0$0100a8c0@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: <32888.64.118.101.118.1068363217.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > is there a Lisa 1 and a Lisa 2? I thought there was just a Lisa... > please educate me! The original Lisa, also known as the Lisa 1, was introduced in early 1983 and had two internal 5.25-inch "Twiggy" floppy drives with about 880K capacity each. The optional hard drive was an external Profile, which originally had 5 MB capacity but was later offered in a 10 MB version. In early 1984, Apple introduced the Lisa 2, which came in three models: * Lisa 2 - single internal 3.5-inch Sony floppy drive, 400K capacity. * Lisa 2/5 - same as Lisa 2, but with a 5 MB external Profile hard drive * Lisa 2/10 - Lisa 2 with an internal 10 MB "Widget" 10 MB hard drive note - this has a different I/O card and backplane than the earlier models (1, 2, 2/5) When the Lisa 2 was introduced, Apple offered a free upgrade from the Lisa 1, so very few Lisa 1 machines still exist. This was apparently due to problems with reliability of the Twiggy drives. There was a shareholder lawsuit alleging that Apple withheld information on the Twiggy problem from the shareholders. In 1985, Apple introduced the Macintosh XL - a Lisa 2/10 with a "screen mod kit" and MacWorks (Mac OS for Lisa). The screen mod kit changed the display resolution such that the pixels are square, as expected by Macintosh software. MacWorks did not require the screen mod kit, but without it circles appear as ellipses, etc. The screen mod kit was available as an upgrade. This consisted of a transformer to be installed in the monitor, a new video state PROM for the I/O board, and new boot firmware for the CPU board. With a screen mod kit installed, a Lisa can no longer run the native Lisa software. However, a third party offered a kit allowing the screen mod to be switched. From cbajpai at comcast.net Sat Nov 8 16:31:21 2003 From: cbajpai at comcast.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa 1 + Lisa help needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c3a648$09117120$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> He just bought 2 broken Lisa-1's that were for sale locally...paid a handsome sum also. I bought a Lisa-2 Widget hard drive from him...he bought it from Sydney Australia! Btw - Anyone have a Apple TechNet CD (with all the Lisa software on it)? I'd like to get a copy so I could reload my lisa with 7/7. Any one have a copy of LisaPascal? Thanks, Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Witchy Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 3:03 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: Apple Lisa 1 Having just checked the auction I'd just like to say: a) verily, that art beautiful and b) how the fsck does mac512k get so many bloody Lisas to sell on ebay? That's about the 10th I've seen him sell...... cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Teo Zenios > Sent: 08 November 2003 18:49 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Apple Lisa 1 > > > Whats an apple lisa 1 worth with twiggy drives? > > Somebody has one on ebay (2763806974 ) bid at $3,250 (reserve not > met) and 3+ days left to go. From zaffts at comcast.net Sat Nov 8 16:52:30 2003 From: zaffts at comcast.net (zaffts@comcast.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: DEC PDP-11, RSX equipment, books, etc. Message-ID: <110820032252.6024.1cad@comcast.net> My company has various DEC and DEC-compatible components (with manuals for most) that need a new home. Most of the stuff works (the last time I tried it). I also have a fairly comprehensive set of RSX-11M and RSX-11M-PLUS manuals and software distribution tapes. I hate to see these things scrapped. They paid my rent for more than a decade. So, if anyone is interested in becoming a foster parent or knows of someone, please let me know. Wayne Zafft From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Sun Nov 9 05:04:29 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: The Geek Test... Message-ID: I came out 33.72871... Cheers... Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, Texas, USA Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 Email: edward.tillman@valero.com -----Original Message----- From: David Woyciesjes [mailto:dwoyciesjes@comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 1:20 PM To: ClassicCMP Subject: The Geek Test... How many of you have seen this one? http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html I only got a 7.88955% result... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Nov 9 07:30:45 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: Information about a HP 13197 1K WCS for the HP 1000? References: <3.0.6.32.20031103223400.007f9a40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3FAE4185.5030404@tiac.net> Doh! Jay West and I have a set of these carrds, and I've been busy developing a WCS loader and microassembler for them. I've been looking for one of these for a while. Figures you find one after we had to 'get' a pair from Crisis Computer! Joe wrote: > Picked up this card today. PN 13197-60001. Anyone have any info on it? I >TRIED to use Al's new website to check the HP 1000 CE manual. It over ten >minutes to load the FIRST page and I couldn't load any more. Has anyone >else tried it and are you having problems with it? > > > Joe > > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Nov 9 07:38:08 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa 1 + Lisa help needed In-Reply-To: <000001c3a648$09117120$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chandra Bajpai > Sent: 08 November 2003 22:31 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: RE: Apple Lisa 1 + Lisa help needed > > > He just bought 2 broken Lisa-1's that were for sale locally...paid a > handsome sum also. > > I bought a Lisa-2 Widget hard drive from him...he bought it from Sydney > Australia! Strewth, sport! :) > Btw - Anyone have a Apple TechNet CD (with all the Lisa software on it)? > I'd like to get a copy so I could reload my lisa with 7/7. > Any one have a copy of LisaPascal? I have, and I've been meaning to add the software to my Lisa page 'cos a lot of the other web links I ever found were either missing or incomplete. Tremendous fun was had producing 400K floppies though. Not. PC 1.44mb floppy written using a Mac translator (HFVExplorer), over to a Mac that could read 1.44mb floppies but not write 400K ones, so appletalk over to a Mac IIcx onto a 400k floppy :) Now it's less of a pain 'cos I've got the CD so I can just put a CD player on an old Mac. I'll update my Lisa page sometime today. http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Apple/lisa/lisa2.php cheers From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Nov 9 07:57:18 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: Cats References: <3FA7D857.2050201@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3FAE47BE.6080003@tiac.net> Off topic, but... Most cats don't watch TV simply because they cannot see the picture! Cats have a 'flicker fusion rate' of about 400 hz, as opposed to the human rate of about 20 hz. So to a cat, a TV set is a flickering mess. Some cats are able to 'get' the idea and put the picture together, usually only if there is a lot of motion to track. But a still image in a TV is nearly invisible to a cat. They cannot quite see the beam sweeping, but they are far closer to that than we are. ben franchuk wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, chris wrote: >> >> >>> Its not as if they are watching Matlock reruns or anything. These are >>> videos of small animals flying or running around the screen. Basically, >>> its a video version of pulling a cat toy around on a string. Lots of >>> movement and sound, zero plot. >> >> >> >> So in other words, "cat porn". >> > > > NO! Nude Cat girl ,Errr Nevermind. > > It don't even have to look real,since the screen saver on my DVD > player is a glass ball constantly moving around the screen, > my cat often stares at it for few minutes and then walks away. > Many years ago there was a nature program on TV with birds chirping > and the cat was trying to catch the bird with his paw on the screen. > Still the best cat toy is laser light pointer, they all love to go > after that spot of light. > Ben. > PS I think most cats don't watch tv because of the loud noise from > most tv shows. > > > > From lbickley at bickleywest.com Sun Nov 9 07:58:46 2003 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: DEC PDP-11, RSX equipment, books, etc. In-Reply-To: <110820032252.6024.1cad@comcast.net> References: <110820032252.6024.1cad@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200311090558.46661.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Hi Wayne, I'm interested, being a PDP-11 fan. Where is your company located? Lyle On Saturday 08 November 2003 14:52, zaffts@comcast.net wrote: > My company has various DEC and DEC-compatible components (with manuals for > most) that need a new home. Most of the stuff works (the last time I tried > it). > > I also have a fairly comprehensive set of RSX-11M and RSX-11M-PLUS manuals > and software distribution tapes. > > I hate to see these things scrapped. They paid my rent for more than a > decade. So, if anyone is interested in becoming a foster parent or knows > of someone, please let me know. > > Wayne Zafft -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA 94040 "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Nov 9 08:09:05 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: Information about a HP 13197 1K WCS for the HP 1000? References: <200311042211.hA4MBkrB016475@spies.com> Message-ID: <3FAE4A81.9070708@tiac.net> For the best info on this board, see the following manuals: HP1000 M/E/F-Series Firmware Installation and Service Manual 12791-90001. This gives enough detail to write a device driver for the board. Also... HP21MX E-series Computer Microprogramming reference manual So you know what to put into that WCS board! HP-IPL/OS will be supporting the WCS soon. The driver is trivial, but the microassembler is another story, I really need a file system to implement this properly. Al Kossow wrote: >>You're not supposed to view them in your web browser. >> > >It should work fine that way, assuming the pdf plugin is sending the >right html commands to the web server. I see people reading docs this >way all the time. > >To answer the original question, the WCS card is documented in the >1000 M/E/F Engineering Reference >http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/1000/1000_MEF_EngrRef/ > >92851-90001_Mar81_6.pdf section B > > From esharpe at uswest.net Sun Nov 9 08:36:06 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: *****Re: Apple Lisa 1 References: <004901c3a683$0d2040d0$0100a8c0@SONYDIGITALED> <32888.64.118.101.118.1068363217.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <003201c3a6ce$cfd82a70$0100a8c0@SONYDIGITALED> ok what I suspect the museum has is a Lisa 2/10 - Lisa 2 with an internal 10 MB "Widget" 10 MB hard drive or a In 1985, Apple introduced the Macintosh XL - a Lisa 2/10 when we turn it on all we get are all sorts of squares on the screen! I will now have to keep an eye out for one of the earlier ones. Just should be happy to have a Lisa in any form I guess... The one we have is the only one we have had a chance to obtain! Eric thanks for the history lesson! ed sharpe archivist for smecc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Smith" To: "ed sharpe" ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 12:33 AM Subject: Re: *****Re: Apple Lisa 1 > > is there a Lisa 1 and a Lisa 2? I thought there was just a Lisa... > > please educate me! > > The original Lisa, also known as the Lisa 1, was introduced in early > 1983 and had two internal 5.25-inch "Twiggy" floppy drives with about > 880K capacity each. The optional hard drive was an external Profile, > which originally had 5 MB capacity but was later offered in a 10 MB > version. > > In early 1984, Apple introduced the Lisa 2, which came in three models: > > * Lisa 2 - single internal 3.5-inch Sony floppy drive, 400K capacity. > > * Lisa 2/5 - same as Lisa 2, but with a 5 MB external Profile hard drive > > * Lisa 2/10 - Lisa 2 with an internal 10 MB "Widget" 10 MB hard drive > note - this has a different I/O card and backplane than the earlier > models (1, 2, 2/5) > > When the Lisa 2 was introduced, Apple offered a free upgrade from the > Lisa 1, so very few Lisa 1 machines still exist. This was apparently > due to problems with reliability of the Twiggy drives. There was a > shareholder lawsuit alleging that Apple withheld information on the > Twiggy problem from the shareholders. > > In 1985, Apple introduced the Macintosh XL - a Lisa 2/10 with a "screen > mod kit" and MacWorks (Mac OS for Lisa). > > The screen mod kit changed the display resolution such that the pixels > are square, as expected by Macintosh software. MacWorks did not require > the screen mod kit, but without it circles appear as ellipses, etc. > > The screen mod kit was available as an upgrade. This consisted of > a transformer to be installed in the monitor, a new video state PROM > for the I/O board, and new boot firmware for the CPU board. With > a screen mod kit installed, a Lisa can no longer run the native Lisa > software. However, a third party offered a kit allowing the screen > mod to be switched. > > From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Sun Nov 9 09:44:09 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: DEC PDP-11, RSX equipment, books, etc. References: <110820032252.6024.1cad@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3FAE60C9.F8E385AB@Vishay.com> Wayne, a complete doc set is at my finger tips here, but the tapes might be interesting, particularly if they are PLUS and/or contain what I need to add LAT support to my '11s. What exactly are the other components you mention? Andreas zaffts@comcast.net schrieb: > > My company has various DEC and DEC-compatible components (with manuals for most) that need a new home. Most of the stuff works (the last time I tried it). > > I also have a fairly comprehensive set of RSX-11M and RSX-11M-PLUS manuals and software distribution tapes. > > I hate to see these things scrapped. They paid my rent for more than a decade. So, if anyone is interested in becoming a foster parent or knows of someone, please let me know. > > Wayne Zafft From pds3 at ix.netcom.com Sun Nov 9 08:13:09 2003 From: pds3 at ix.netcom.com (Shannon Hoskins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: DEC PDP-11, RSX equipment, books, etc. References: <110820032252.6024.1cad@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000f01c3a6cb$a1892f00$0338a5d1@shannon> We are also interested and can make a cash offer. Please contact Shannon Hoskins 530/384-2094. We are always buying pdp11 and other DEC gear. Can pick up from the Bay area to the Oregon border. Best regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 2:52 PM Subject: DEC PDP-11, RSX equipment, books, etc. > My company has various DEC and DEC-compatible components (with manuals for most) that need a new home. Most of the stuff works (the last time I tried it). > > I also have a fairly comprehensive set of RSX-11M and RSX-11M-PLUS manuals and software distribution tapes. > > I hate to see these things scrapped. They paid my rent for more than a decade. So, if anyone is interested in becoming a foster parent or knows of someone, please let me know. > > Wayne Zafft From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 9 11:36:13 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: PERQ reference book (was: The Geek Test...) In-Reply-To: <20031109015036.GG23488@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Nov 8, 3 08:50:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2102 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031109/d32c6113/attachment.ksh From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Nov 9 12:04:58 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: Cats References: <3FA7D857.2050201@jetnet.ab.ca> <3FAE47BE.6080003@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3FAE81CA.3040308@jetnet.ab.ca> Bob Shannon wrote: > Off topic, but... > > Most cats don't watch TV simply because they cannot see the picture! > > Cats have a 'flicker fusion rate' of about 400 hz, as opposed to the > human rate of about 20 hz. That makes sense as my cat zooms around my apartment 20 x faster than me. > So to a cat, a TV set is a flickering mess. Some cats are able to 'get' > the idea and put the picture > together, usually only if there is a lot of motion to track. I don't expect the noise from refresh is great on the cats ears too. Ben. From freddyboomboom at comcast.net Sun Nov 9 12:18:38 2003 From: freddyboomboom at comcast.net (Andrew Prince) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa 1 + Lisa help needed In-Reply-To: <000001c3a648$09117120$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> References: <000001c3a648$09117120$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <1068401918.1741.14.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2003-11-08 at 14:31, Chandra Bajpai wrote: > Btw - Anyone have a Apple TechNet CD (with all the Lisa software on it)? > I'd like to get a copy so I could reload my lisa with 7/7. > Any one have a copy of LisaPascal? > > Thanks, > Chandra > Well, I thought I had a older Service Source (Technet is from Microsoft), but all I can find is my newer one that doesn't have the non-PowerPC stuff. However, comma, you might want to look at http://jupiterii.tripod.com/ , he's got some disk images of some Lisa OS's and software. You'll need Stuffit Expander from www.aladdinsys.com to extract it on a Windows or Mac OS... http://archaic-apples.shauny.de/ looks like it has some disk images, also. I got to both places from http://w3.trib.com/%7Edwood/oldmac.shtml (Resources for Older Macs). This place has been a favorite source for older Mac stuff for me for several years now. Good Luck!!! If I find that older Service Source, I'll let you know! TTFN Andy-roo From kd7bcy at teleport.com Sun Nov 9 12:29:50 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:56 2005 Subject: Cats In-Reply-To: <3FAE81CA.3040308@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3FA7D857.2050201@jetnet.ab.ca> <3FAE47BE.6080003@tiac.net> <3FAE81CA.3040308@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: >>Cats have a 'flicker fusion rate' of about 400 hz, as opposed to >>the human rate of about 20 hz. >That makes sense as my cat zooms around my apartment 20 x faster than me. Here we go again... OK. So if they see at 400hz, and we see at 20.... What do they see that we don't that is so damned interesting on that wall over there? -JR From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Nov 9 07:52:56 2003 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: Cats In-Reply-To: References: <3FAE81CA.3040308@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20031109184952.CNKF1641.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > >>Cats have a 'flicker fusion rate' of about 400 hz, as opposed to > >>the human rate of about 20 hz. > >That makes sense as my cat zooms around my apartment 20 x faster than me. > > Here we go again... > OK. So if they see at 400hz, and we see at 20.... What do they see > that we don't that is so damned interesting on that wall over there? > > -JR LOL!! Oh, sometimes our cat loudly cry (Meooow!) in a area where there nobody even we're home! Cheers, Wizard From vcf at siconic.com Sun Nov 9 13:29:52 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: Cats In-Reply-To: <3FAE47BE.6080003@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Nov 2003, Bob Shannon wrote: > Off topic, but... > > Most cats don't watch TV simply because they cannot see the picture! > > Cats have a 'flicker fusion rate' of about 400 hz, as opposed to the > human rate of about 20 hz. > > So to a cat, a TV set is a flickering mess. Some cats are able to 'get' > the idea and put the picture > together, usually only if there is a lot of motion to track. > > But a still image in a TV is nearly invisible to a cat. They cannot > quite see the beam sweeping, but > they are far closer to that than we are. So, what cat did they interview who spilled the beans on this? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Nov 9 13:44:55 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: Lisa software now online Message-ID: Evenin' folks, I've updated my Lisa page to include most of the software I've got, including Lisa OS V2 and V3.1 plus apps, Lisa PASCAL Workshop V2 and V3, Lisa BASIC (not tested that one), DART and Diskcopy 4.2. I *think* Lisa OS V1 is in there too but the filenames don't make it obvious. Let me know if any of them don't work - I can't test ATM 'cos my main Mac is on the floor while I'm rejigging my geekosphere :o) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Nov 9 13:57:20 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: Cats References: Message-ID: <015f01c3a6fb$b062c150$220cdd40@66067007> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 1:29 PM Subject: Re: Cats > On Sun, 9 Nov 2003, Bob Shannon wrote: > > > Off topic, but... > > > > Most cats don't watch TV simply because they cannot see the picture! > > > > Cats have a 'flicker fusion rate' of about 400 hz, as opposed to the > > human rate of about 20 hz. > > > > So to a cat, a TV set is a flickering mess. Some cats are able to 'get' > > the idea and put the picture > > together, usually only if there is a lot of motion to track. > > > > But a still image in a TV is nearly invisible to a cat. They cannot > > quite see the beam sweeping, but > > they are far closer to that than we are. > > So, what cat did they interview who spilled the beans on this? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From sebastian.brueckner at epost.de Sun Nov 9 15:23:59 2003 From: sebastian.brueckner at epost.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sebastian_Br=FCckner?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L not incrementing properly Message-ID: <3FAEB06F.8090101@epost.de> Hi! I once again tried to get my PDP-8/L to run this weekend. Unfortunately I am not not yet a PDP professional - I don't have a clue what most of the modules are doing. I started to read the Maintenance Manuals but I do not quite know where to start. Maybe you can give me a hint: I tried the "simpler" instructions like set accumulator, or accumulator with switch reg. etc. What I did not yet try are the different jump instructions. I will be more specific as soon as I tried more instructions. CLA and STA work, i can set all bits in AC. IAC (increment) and all the rotate instructions however always set AC to 1 completely ignoring the previous value. Where should I start looking for the problem? What information do I have to gather to narrow down the source of the problem? Regards, Sebastian From aek at spies.com Sun Nov 9 19:53:46 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: Information about a HP 13197 1K WCS for the HP 1000? Message-ID: <200311100153.hAA1rk8Z003113@spies.com> > For the best info on this board, see the following manuals: > HP1000 M/E/F-Series Firmware Installation and Service Manual 12791-90001. The 83 and 86 versions of the document are now up at www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/1000 From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Nov 9 21:05:40 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: Al's website References: <200311100153.hAA1rk8Z003113@spies.com> Message-ID: <002b01c3a737$8658eb00$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Al... please can you put the following in the webserver config file for the site??? IndexOptions +NameWidth=* +DescriptionWidth=* Options +indexes It's hard to read the long file names you have without it :\ Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" To: Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 7:53 PM Subject: Re: Information about a HP 13197 1K WCS for the HP 1000? > > > For the best info on this board, see the following manuals: > > HP1000 M/E/F-Series Firmware Installation and Service Manual 12791-90001. > > The 83 and 86 versions of the document are now up at www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/1000 > > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Nov 9 21:35:35 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: TRON... In-Reply-To: <3FAC026C.7090008@ecubics.com> References: <3FABF7A0.25883.71B5B275@localhost> <3FAC026C.7090008@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <20031109193502.A75192@newshell.lmi.net> On Fri, 7 Nov 2003, emanuel stiebler wrote: > November 1982 issue of Byte was a nice artice about it too. There was also a paperback book on the making of it From emu at ecubics.com Sun Nov 9 22:54:42 2003 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: TRON... In-Reply-To: <20031109193502.A75192@newshell.lmi.net> References: <3FABF7A0.25883.71B5B275@localhost> <3FAC026C.7090008@ecubics.com> <20031109193502.A75192@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <3FAF1A12.8070200@ecubics.com> Fred Cisin wrote: > On Fri, 7 Nov 2003, emanuel stiebler wrote: > >>November 1982 issue of Byte was a nice artice about it too. > > There was also a paperback book on the making of it Title ? ISBN ? Anybody has it ? ;-) From ohh at drizzle.com Sun Nov 9 22:52:59 2003 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L not incrementing properly In-Reply-To: <3FAEB06F.8090101@epost.de> Message-ID: Sebastian Br?ckner wrote, in part: > I am not not yet a PDP professional - I don't have a clue what most of > the modules are doing. I started to read the Maintenance Manuals but I > do not quite know where to start. Maybe you can give me a hint: > [...snipppp] > CLA and STA work, i can set all bits in AC. IAC (increment) and all the > rotate instructions however always set AC to 1 completely ignoring the > previous value. > Where should I start looking for the problem? What information do I have > to gather to narrow down the source of the problem? Do you have Volume 2 of the maintenance manual, or generally speaking a copy of the schematics? If so, and you know the nomenclature for the basic gates (AND, OR, NAND, etc.) and flip-flops, you can have a lot of fun tracing the various signals through the processor and gradually learn how it processes the various commands in hardware. (Appendix A of Volume 2 gives a foothold for getting started.) When you're new to it, tracing how the logic works can make your head hurt at first ; but as you get more accustomed to it it'll put you on a much more solid footing for troubleshooting. (It also can become positively enjoyable. At least, _I_ think so. ) That said... I'd try other commands that affect the AC (TAD would be a good candidate) to see if they did anything out of the ordinary. Hope- fully they won't , and that would narrow down the search. If the problem is confining itself to rotates, it would be worth trying each of the four rotates (RTL, RAL, RAR, RTR) to see if all of them are malfunctioning or just a subset of them. The rotate signals are all generated on the same card - the M617 at E31, if the 8/L and 8/I share the same backplane layout - so that might be a good starting- point to look for trouble. (Look for the page "Shift & Carry Gate Control" in the schematics. The rotate signals go from there to the "Major Register Gating" page, where they choose the rotate-data to be gated into the AC. It's really quite simple and elegant how they take the information from the major-register adders and just select the version that provides the rotation desired... Okay, okay, I'm waxing poetic. My apologies.) Hope this helps! -O.- From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Nov 9 22:55:15 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: TRON... In-Reply-To: <3FAF1A12.8070200@ecubics.com> References: <3FABF7A0.25883.71B5B275@localhost> <3FAC026C.7090008@ecubics.com> <20031109193502.A75192@newshell.lmi.net> <3FAF1A12.8070200@ecubics.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Nov 2003, emanuel stiebler wrote: > Fred Cisin wrote: > > > On Fri, 7 Nov 2003, emanuel stiebler wrote: > > > >>November 1982 issue of Byte was a nice artice about it too. > > > > There was also a paperback book on the making of it > > Title ? ISBN ? Anybody has it ? > ;-) Google brings up 62 references to it - also I would suggest www.abebooks.com for a Reasonable Fee I'll find a copy and send it to you... ;} Cheerz John From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Nov 9 22:57:54 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: TRON Book In-Reply-To: <3FAF1A12.8070200@ecubics.com> References: <3FABF7A0.25883.71B5B275@localhost> <3FAC026C.7090008@ecubics.com> <20031109193502.A75192@newshell.lmi.net> <3FAF1A12.8070200@ecubics.com> Message-ID: ISBN: 0671455753 abebooks.com finds one copy in a bookstore in Arvada, CA - but it's $200.00. Seems it's fairly rare... FYI John From emu at ecubics.com Sun Nov 9 23:13:41 2003 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: TRON Book In-Reply-To: References: <3FABF7A0.25883.71B5B275@localhost> <3FAC026C.7090008@ecubics.com> <20031109193502.A75192@newshell.lmi.net> <3FAF1A12.8070200@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <3FAF1E85.3040606@ecubics.com> John Lawson wrote: > ISBN: 0671455753 > > abebooks.com finds one copy in a bookstore in Arvada, CA - but it's > $200.00. Seems it's fairly rare... $200 is pretty steep ! But at least I know now what I'm looking for ! (And didn't know before that something like this existed) Thanks ! From vrs at msn.com Sun Nov 9 23:16:06 2003 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L not incrementing properly References: Message-ID: From: "O. Sharp" > That said... I'd try other commands that affect the AC (TAD would be a > good candidate) to see if they did anything out of the ordinary. Hope- > fully they won't , and that would narrow down the search. If the > problem is confining itself to rotates, it would be worth trying each > of the four rotates (RTL, RAL, RAR, RTR) to see if all of them are > malfunctioning or just a subset of them. The rotate signals are all > generated on the same card - the M617 at E31, if the 8/L and 8/I > share the same backplane layout - so that might be a good starting- > point to look for trouble. (Look for the page "Shift & Carry Gate > Control" in the schematics. The rotate signals go from there to the > "Major Register Gating" page, where they choose the rotate-data to > be gated into the AC. That M617 is at B09 in an 8L, according to my copy of the schematic. Vince From donm at cts.com Mon Nov 10 00:52:43 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: Do you have a Mac SE internal SCSI hardrive??? In-Reply-To: <000e01c3a662$a50e4ed0$3d7ca418@game> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Nov 2003, Teo Zenios wrote: > > You might also consider checking out "Junkyard Jeff's" website at: > > > > www.users.qwest.net/~jgarbacz > > > > He handles a lot of bits and pieces for old Macs and PCs also. > > > > - don > > > > > > > > I dont think that site has been updated for may years, its dead. It appears that you are correct. I attempted to contact him via email and fax and struck out on both. The email bounced and the fax never connected. Pity! He waas a useful source. - don From owen at bardstown.com Sun Nov 9 20:26:26 2003 From: owen at bardstown.com (owen@bardstown.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: Getting ROOT on Indy (last question!) Message-ID: <200311100226.hAA2QPw16275@mail.bardstown.com> OK, my Indy is now (almost) all working. I need to change the monitor refresh rate, but I can't do that unless I can log in. I don't have the root pwd either. Apparently you can't go to single user without the root pwd. I can do just about anything -- I have a serial console hookup, but no root to go with it :( I can't get it on a network either... I tried using the setenv command to set the IP to a local address, but I don't think it works (new to IRIX/SGI, so that may be way off!) Anyone have any ideas? I already tried most of the normal ones -- guest, tours, lp, etc. and found them to be closed! Jeez, just what I need... a security consious admin! I have no floppy or CDROM installed on this, nor do I have a SCSI adapter to mount the drives under linux and do the deed the _simple_ way. I also lack IRIX media. Any thoughts? I don't want to buy many more components... but I guess that if I have to, I can make a few more purchases... Thanks! Owen From pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org Mon Nov 10 03:21:41 2003 From: pdp11_70 at retrobbs.org (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: Cats In-Reply-To: <3FAE47BE.6080003@tiac.net> References: <3FA7D857.2050201@jetnet.ab.ca> <3FAE47BE.6080003@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3FAF58A5.7060609@retrobbs.org> That's interesting. What experiment did they use to determine this? I must really like my cat (which I got second hand... he came with the house...) as I just spent ?450 on that fleabag! Take Care, Mark Bob Shannon wrote: > Off topic, but... > > Most cats don't watch TV simply because they cannot see the picture! > > Cats have a 'flicker fusion rate' of about 400 hz, as opposed to the > human rate of about 20 hz. > > So to a cat, a TV set is a flickering mess. Some cats are able to > 'get' the idea and put the picture together, usually only if there is > a lot of motion to track. > > But a still image in a TV is nearly invisible to a cat. They cannot > quite see the beam sweeping, but they are far closer to that than we are. > > From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Nov 10 07:12:21 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: Do you have a Mac SE internal SCSI hardrive??? References: Message-ID: <001001c3a78c$46afeb20$3d7ca418@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 1:52 AM Subject: Re: Do you have a Mac SE internal SCSI hardrive??? > > > On Sat, 8 Nov 2003, Teo Zenios wrote: > > > > > > You might also consider checking out "Junkyard Jeff's" website at: > > > > > > www.users.qwest.net/~jgarbacz > > > > > > He handles a lot of bits and pieces for old Macs and PCs also. > > > > > > - don > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont think that site has been updated for may years, its dead. > > It appears that you are correct. I attempted to contact him via > email and fax and struck out on both. The email bounced and the > fax never connected. Pity! He waas a useful source. > > - don > > > Yes, I had purchased a bunch of nubus cards for my collection from that place years ago. From cukr at massnet1.net Mon Nov 10 09:56:43 2003 From: cukr at massnet1.net (Mike Cukr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: TRON Book References: <3FABF7A0.25883.71B5B275@localhost> <3FAC026C.7090008@ecubics.com><20031109193502.A75192@newshell.lmi.net><3FAF1A12.8070200@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <001801c3a7a3$3d877060$0362ead8@d2e2y0> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lawson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 11:57 PM Subject: TRON Book > > ISBN: 0671455753 > > abebooks.com finds one copy in a bookstore in Arvada, CA - but it's > $200.00. Seems it's fairly rare... > > > FYI > > > > John > Which one? There's Tron by Brian Daley and Tron by Walt Disney... In any case Barnes and Nobel lists both for under $10 US. Look in B&N's Rare and Used Book section. Mike From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Nov 10 10:37:19 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: TRON Book In-Reply-To: <001801c3a7a3$3d877060$0362ead8@d2e2y0> References: <3FABF7A0.25883.71B5B275@localhost> <3FAC026C.7090008@ecubics.com><20031109193502.A75192@newshell.lmi.net><3FAF1A12.8070200@ecubics.com> <001801c3a7a3$3d877060$0362ead8@d2e2y0> Message-ID: There is a third: "The Making of TRON" which was the actual book under discussion - and which seems to be made of an alloy of Unobtanium... On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Mike Cukr wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > [snip] > > > > ISBN: 0671455753 > > > > abebooks.com finds one copy in a bookstore in Arvada, CA - but it's > > $200.00. Seems it's fairly rare... > > > > Which one? There's Tron by Brian Daley and Tron by Walt Disney... In any > case Barnes and Nobel lists both for under $10 US. Look in B&N's > Rare and Used Book section. > > Mike abebooks.com has over 250 different instances of the other two books, as well as game cheat-sheets, etc. Cheers John From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Nov 10 10:35:11 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: Getting ROOT on Indy (last question!) In-Reply-To: <200311100226.hAA2QPw16275@mail.bardstown.com>; from owen@bardstown.com on Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 03:26:26 %z References: <200311100226.hAA2QPw16275@mail.bardstown.com> Message-ID: <20031110163511.GQ3516666@MrPomeroy2> On 2003.11.10 03:26 owen@bardstown.com wrote: > I have no floppy or CDROM installed on this, nor do I have a SCSI > adapter to mount the drives under linux and do the deed the _simple_ > way. I also lack IRIX media. Get IRIX media, period. Temporally mount CDROM to Indy, boot to install system, mount old root, chroot to old root (available from the admin menu in the install system), vi /etc/passwd, reboot, done. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From Tomgen1 at aol.com Mon Nov 10 10:58:55 2003 From: Tomgen1 at aol.com (Tomgen1@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: Cubix Power SMP Video/mouse/keyboard Connector Pinout Message-ID: <126.340acbec.2ce11dcf@aol.com> I am playing with an old Cubix Power SMP system, but I don't have the breakout box for the video/mouse /keyboard connector. Does anyone have the pinout for that connector so I can build a breakout box? I have looked on the Cubix website and searched everywhere. Thanks in advance Tom From jplist at kiwigeek.com Mon Nov 10 11:05:36 2003 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: Cubix Power SMP Video/mouse/keyboard Connector Pinout In-Reply-To: <126.340acbec.2ce11dcf@aol.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 Tomgen1@aol.com wrote: > I am playing with an old Cubix Power SMP system, but I don't have the > breakout box for the video/mouse /keyboard connector. Does anyone have the pinout > for that connector so I can build a breakout box? I have looked on the Cubix > website and searched everywhere. I can dig it up for you, I have it somewhere... Somewhere. ;) But you can ask Cubix themselves and they'll eMail you a pinout. Thats how I got it :) Cubix has good support, and they seemed to be good people. I told them the truth - I bought the unit alone, but had no breakout box and couldn't really afford one. JP From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Nov 10 12:08:57 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: Cubix Power SMP Video/mouse/keyboard Connector Pinout In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The interesting bit of trivia is that I work just about a block down the street from these boys..... Time to contemplate some *serious* dumpster-diving! Cheers John From allain at panix.com Mon Nov 10 12:31:58 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: TRON Book References: <3FABF7A0.25883.71B5B275@localhost><3FAC026C.7090008@ecubics.com><20031109193502.A75192@newshell.lmi.net><3FAF1A12.8070200@ecubics.com><001801c3a7a3$3d877060$0362ead8@d2e2y0> Message-ID: <040701c3a7b8$ed96a600$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > There is a third: "The Making of TRON" which was... Something else to know: The CineFeX magazine article from 1982 is still available, and affordable. http://www.cinefex.com/index/08-01.html They gave 35 pages over to it... maybe 10,000 words. It's photocopies, but there could be more more real information than the coffee table book has, though I haven't seen that. If you want color pictures be sure to get the DVD. John A. not affiliated to CineFeX, not even subscribed. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Nov 10 12:42:31 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: Puzzles (Was: The Geek Test...) In-Reply-To: <20031107210923.90FAB1416D8B@swift.conman.org> References: <3FAB75A9.12512.6FBA062A@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Nov 07, 2003 10:36:25 AM Message-ID: <3FAFEA27.17074.81211354@localhost> > > Well, I still try to get the idea what's so special about > > a 500+ part jigsaw. It nedsa at least two more entries as > > in 'done a 1500+' and 'done a 1500+ puzzle ot the moon or > > a similar low detail object'. > I did a 1000 piece puzzle of the constellations, but I think the most > difficult puzzle I've seen was a 1000+ piece puzzle of a bucket of worms, > each piece being the same size and shape (it's either that, or the 1000+ > puzzle where the resulting image was of randomly colored puzzle pieces, but > each piece of the *actual* puzzle was the same size and shape). Well, my personal highlighs have been two: a 1500 pice of a pile of gold coins ... all Yellow and round:) and a 2500 of 'halfeathn' over the moon ... where the background is a 100% black... Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Nov 10 12:42:31 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa 1 In-Reply-To: References: <015801c3a628$f846ad70$3d7ca418@game> Message-ID: <3FAFEA27.4462.812112E6@localhost> > > Whats an apple lisa 1 worth with twiggy drives? > > Somebody has one on ebay (2763806974 ) bid at $3,250 (reserve not met) > > and 3+ days left to go. > If it fetches less than $8K I'll be shocked. Everything above 1K is a rip off. I'll bet it stays below the reserve and won't even reach 4K (*1) Gruss H. *1 except of course theusual stupid sniper... -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Nov 10 12:50:15 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: TRON Book In-Reply-To: <3FAF1E85.3040606@ecubics.com> References: <3FABF7A0.25883.71B5B275@localhost> <3FAC026C.7090008@ecubics.com> <20031109193502.A75192@newshell.lmi.net> <3FAF1A12.8070200@ecubics.com> <3FAF1E85.3040606@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <20031110104222.K87681@newshell.lmi.net> On Sun, 9 Nov 2003, emanuel stiebler wrote: > > ISBN: 0671455753 > > abebooks.com finds one copy in a bookstore in Arvada, CA - but it's > > $200.00. Seems it's fairly rare... > $200 is pretty steep ! But at least I know now what I'm looking for ! > (And didn't know before that something like this existed) When I can find it, I'd discount substantially below THAT! In some of my classes, I used to show and discuss TRON and "Last Starfighter" ("first" computer graphics movie that wasn't obsessed with having been computer graphics.) Somewhere (not seen since I closed my office) I have TRON on VHS, and the book. In addition, at SigGraph, there were a bunch of stills from TRON included in the demo pictures. Sellam bought my carousel tray with those. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From bpope at wordstock.com Mon Nov 10 13:04:07 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: TRON Book In-Reply-To: <20031110104222.K87681@newshell.lmi.net> from "Fred Cisin" at Nov 10, 03 10:50:15 am Message-ID: <200311101904.OAA04558@wordstock.com> And thusly Fred Cisin spake: > > When I can find it, I'd discount substantially below THAT! > Then let me know when you find it!! :) > In some of my classes, I used to show and discuss TRON and "Last > Starfighter" ("first" computer graphics movie that wasn't obsessed with > having been computer graphics.) You taught with TRON and Last Starfighter?!! What class was that? Whatever the class is I want to be in it. > > Somewhere (not seen since I closed my office) I have TRON on VHS, and the > book. > > In addition, at SigGraph, there were a bunch of stills from TRON included > in the demo pictures. Sellam bought my carousel tray with those. > Hmmm... Hey Sellam you should demo them at VCF east... ;) Examples of arly 3D computer graphics... Cheers, Bryan From tomj at wps.com Mon Nov 10 13:21:07 2003 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: SGI refrigerator Message-ID: <1068491524.3944.8.camel@linux.local> http://home.planet.nl/~mourits/koelkast/ From jbmcb at hotmail.com Mon Nov 10 13:19:23 2003 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: TRON/TROFF References: <3FABF7A0.25883.71B5B275@localhost><3FAC026C.7090008@ecubics.com><20031109193502.A75192@newshell.lmi.net><3FAF1A12.8070200@ecubics.com><001801c3a7a3$3d877060$0362ead8@d2e2y0> <040701c3a7b8$ed96a600$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: Anyone know what TRON was rendered on? I know it was Cray hardware, but what software? I assume it was custom, and probably written in fortran :) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 10 13:37:30 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: FA: 1965 IBM 1232 manuals, HP & Varian Front Panels Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031110143730.007d8100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> FA: Manual set for IBM 1232 Optical Marked Page Reader, New HP 1000 computer front panal, a front panel for a Varian 620/L-100, CDC documents. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 10 13:40:56 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: SGI refrigerator In-Reply-To: <1068491524.3944.8.camel@linux.local> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031110144056.007d92d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> From the same guy that brought you the Expressigo! This guy definitely has too much time on his hands! :-) Joe At 11:12 AM 11/10/03 -0800, you wrote: >http://home.planet.nl/~mourits/koelkast/ > From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Nov 10 14:07:11 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: TRON Book In-Reply-To: <200311101904.OAA04558@wordstock.com> References: <200311101904.OAA04558@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20031110115734.D87681@newshell.lmi.net> > > In some of my classes, I used to show and discuss TRON and "Last > > Starfighter" ("first" computer graphics movie that wasn't obsessed with > > having been computer graphics.) > You taught with TRON and Last Starfighter?!! What class was that? Whatever > the class is I want to be in it. Even in the intro classes, I try to include SOME decent content (and more about the history than most of the students want to hear). I used to teach a computer graphics programming class. It wasn't very popular, since a lot of the students that signed up for it expected to be able to create commercial quality REAL TIME animated graphics without programming. Only a few of the best students understood the idea of creating primitives, Bressenham's algorithm, etc. It's also a struggle getting people to understand that animation consists of creating one frame at a time, NOT aiming a camera at the screen while a microcomputer renders images at 30 frames per second. > > In addition, at SigGraph, there were a bunch of stills from TRON included > > in the demo pictures. Sellam bought my carousel tray with those. > Hmmm... Hey Sellam you should demo them at VCF east... ;) Examples of > arly 3D computer graphics... Most of the SigGraph demo slides that I had were from the era of beginning to be able to map surface textures onto 3D perspective images. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com www.merritt.edu/~fcisin From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Nov 10 14:23:45 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: TRON/TROFF In-Reply-To: References: <3FABF7A0.25883.71B5B275@localhost><3FAC026C.7090008@ecubics.com><20031109193502.A75192@newshell.lmi.net><3FAF1A12.8070200@ecubics.com><001801c3a7a3$3d877060$0362ead8@d2e2y0> <040701c3a7b8$ed96a600$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20031110122206.D87681@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Jason McBrien wrote: > Anyone know what TRON was rendered on? I know it was Cray hardware, but what > software? I assume it was custom, and probably written in fortran :) TRON was a showplace montage film, with lots of differnet groups making separate pieces. No, it was not all Cray. From bpope at wordstock.com Mon Nov 10 14:39:01 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: TRON electronic game and *old* batteries... Message-ID: <200311102039.PAA19360@wordstock.com> Next time I visit my parents I will be pulling my TRON electronic game out of storage... It looks like a mini arcade machine and had three or four games. Now the question: What causes batteries to start leaking? I am worried that there may have (now) 15 year old batteries in it. :( Cheers, Bryan From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Nov 10 14:43:54 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: TRON/TROFF In-Reply-To: References: <3FABF7A0.25883.71B5B275@localhost> <3FAC026C.7090008@ecubics.com> <20031109193502.A75192@newshell.lmi.net> <3FAF1A12.8070200@ecubics.com> <001801c3a7a3$3d877060$0362ead8@d2e2y0> <040701c3a7b8$ed96a600$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20031110144207.042e1af8@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 02:19 PM 11/10/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Anyone know what TRON was rendered on? I know it was Cray hardware, but what >software? I assume it was custom, and probably written in fortran :) I asked my friend Joe Cychosz down at Purdue Univerity's CADLAB what he remembered about this and here is his response: > The graphics came from 3 sources. > The light cycles were raytraced using MAGI synthavision, > Digital Productions did some of the work, the base of DP's software began > with a version of Movie.byu (this is what ran on there Cray, they had an > XMP) > > I will have to figure out what the 3rd graphics piece was. > There was something for Robert Abel that was computed on the > Gould NP1's. I don't remember if it was TRON or something else. > I seem to remember 3 parts to the graphics. DP had the biggest > part of the 3. > > None of this is in stone. Its been a long time since TRON > and the brain cells aren't as pollished as they used to be. --tom From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Nov 10 14:50:48 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: HP disk drive alignment stuff Message-ID: <011601c3a7cc$52355620$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I just got a kit off ebay (Item # 3056408822) that is pretty much a complete kit for working on HP 7905/06 type drives. Thing even includes an air pressure guage :) However, I actually HAVE most of the parts in this kit already, most of the boards and the DSU. However, my DSU has most of it's switches broken off and hasn't yet been tested. This also means I now have two alignment packs, two extenders, etc. etc. As a result I'll be taking my partial kit to ebay to recoup the costs of this complete kit. If anyone here is interested, let me know within a few days and we can work out a trade or something before I go the ebay route. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com Mon Nov 10 14:56:03 2003 From: bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: TRON/TROFF In-Reply-To: <20031110122206.D87681@newshell.lmi.net> References: <3FABF7A0.25883.71B5B275@localhost><3FAC026C.7090008@ecubics.com><20031109193502.A75192@newshell.lmi.net><3FAF1A12.8070200@ecubics.com><001801c3a7a3$3d877060$0362ead8@d2e2y0> <040701c3a7b8$ed96a600$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <20031110122206.D87681@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <3FAFFB63.8030803@yahoo.com> Fred Cisin wrote: >On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Jason McBrien wrote: > > >>Anyone know what TRON was rendered on? I know it was Cray hardware, but what >>software? I assume it was custom, and probably written in fortran :) >> >> > >TRON was a showplace montage film, with lots of differnet groups making >separate pieces. > >No, it was not all Cray. > In the SIGGRAPH'82 Conference Proceedings there is a picture of the Solar Sailer on the front cover and the Light Cycles on the back. The credits inside the back cover talk a little about how the images were made, and on page 289 is a paper by Craig Reynolds called "Computer Animation with Scipts and Actors" that talks about the ASAS program used to animate the Solar Sailer sequence. Bill SIGGRAPH'82 Proceedings ACM Computer Graphics Volume 16, Number 3 July 1982 R. Daniel Bergeron, Editor ACM Order Number 428820 From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Nov 10 15:06:39 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: TRON/TROFF In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20031110144207.042e1af8@mail.ubanproductions.com > References: <3FABF7A0.25883.71B5B275@localhost> <3FAC026C.7090008@ecubics.com> <20031109193502.A75192@newshell.lmi.net> <3FAF1A12.8070200@ecubics.com> <001801c3a7a3$3d877060$0362ead8@d2e2y0> <040701c3a7b8$ed96a600$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20031110150549.043e05a8@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 02:43 PM 11/10/2003 -0600, you wrote: >At 02:19 PM 11/10/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >>Anyone know what TRON was rendered on? I know it was Cray hardware, but what >>software? I assume it was custom, and probably written in fortran :) > >I asked my friend Joe Cychosz down at Purdue Univerity's CADLAB what he >remembered about this and here is his response: > > > The graphics came from 3 sources. > > The light cycles were raytraced using MAGI synthavision, > > Digital Productions did some of the work, the base of DP's software began > > with a version of Movie.byu (this is what ran on there Cray, they had an > > XMP) > > > > I will have to figure out what the 3rd graphics piece was. > > There was something for Robert Abel that was computed on the > > Gould NP1's. I don't remember if it was TRON or something else. > > I seem to remember 3 parts to the graphics. DP had the biggest > > part of the 3. > > > > None of this is in stone. Its been a long time since TRON > > and the brain cells aren't as pollished as they used to be. > >--tom > > A little bit more clarification from Joe: > I don't think DP did any of the work for that film. > Credits show Digital Effects (new york company out of NYIT guys). > Robert Abel is in the credits so I was right on that. > > The rest of the stuff about DP is true, just doesn't apply to > TRON. > > see www.imdb.com --tom From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Nov 10 15:17:24 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: HP 2000 BASIC help / TREK73 Message-ID: <10311102117.ZM7520@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> I need some help with some HP 2000 BASIC. I probably last used it around 1980, and not often even then for somehow the PDP-8s looked more attractive than the grey HP box in the same room. Yeah, I know better now. Luckily, I'm sure some of you can help me out... I've been retyping TREK73 from a fairly poor-quality listing, and it needs a sanity check. Also I'd like to learn a bit more about what I'm typing. This is the original source for the Star Trek program by William Char and friends, and what I've typed so far is on my Star Trek web page at http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/startrek/ I've added some other stuff to that page, too. Questions: All the lines have two spaces between the line number and the code. All, that is, except for a few that have an '@' in place of the second space. Is that significant (does it mean "ignore this" or something?) or is it just an artifact of a noisy Teletype line? (The listing appears to have been made on a Teletype, which needed a new ribbon and a better platen roller.) What does '14 in a PRINT statement, in front of a quoted string, mean (eg in PRINT '14"SULU")? I wondered if it were something like PRINT TAB(14)"... but there are TAB()s elsewhere. A control character, perhaps? If cursor or screen control, are they octal or decimal (I'd guess decimal) and is there a table anywhere? What exactly do the first two parameters to the ENTER command do? They always seem to have three variables (eg ENTER T2,T,X$). That'll do for now :-) If anyone would like to proofread what I've retyped so far (about half the total) and check for obvious sillies, please do - especially in TREK0 around line 740 (cf line 840). Better still, if anyone is willing to actually try this out, please do! though it won't work very well with half of it missing. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dee at orbitsystems.com Fri Nov 7 18:43:21 2003 From: dee at orbitsystems.com (Dee Rose) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: TIL308 Message-ID: <000101c3a7c8$1644a0c0$4500000a@orbitsystems.com> Frank, Do you still have any TIL308, BCD Display Driver LED. If you have any to sell, I would be interested to buy. Thank you, Dee Rose 949-852-9999 ext 224 From patrick at evocative.com Mon Nov 10 16:51:47 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: Heath H-89 & Magnolia Disk Controller Message-ID: I'm trying to get a Magnolia floppy controller running in an H89, and I'm having some odd problems. The Magnolia controller apparently requires their own monitor ROM, which I have (444-84B revision 10). It's my understanding that this ROM actually negotiates the baud rate with the terminal logic board rather than requiring a fixed 9600 as the Heath ROMs do. However, when I have this ROM installed, the machine doesn't seem to be able to "sync". The CPU and TLB speak together perfectly with the normal Heath ROM (444-84 or 444-142), so I'm inclined to rule out problems with the UARTs, transceivers, and cables. But most of the time the screen spouts gibberish with the Magnolia ROM in place, and when it does sync up, I can't type more than a few characters before things go to pot. I've also gotten the same behavior with two known-good CPU boards. Any suggestions? Does anyone know if revision 10 is a good version of Magnolia's ROM, or do I have it because the guy I got it from uses version 11 in his '89? :-) This controller supports a variety of 5-1/4" formats, as well as 8" drives, so I'd love to get it running. Thanks! Patrick P.S. Yes, I do have the "other" recommended Magnolia PROMs in place... full set is 444-83 (Heath), 444-61 (Heath) and 444-66B (Magnolia). --P From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Nov 10 18:02:36 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: help identifying S100 board Message-ID: <5B46351E-13DA-11D8-8170-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> I recently acquired this board, it appears to be an S100 board, since it has the 100 pin connector and voltage regulators onboard. Does anyone know what this is, or what it came from? In the upper right corner, it says "Dynatech NEWSTAR 1MP481 REV. A (C) 1990" The board has a Z80, a 27128 EPROM, an 8k static RAM, some 41c256 DRAMS, a Z80 SIO, some RS-232 line driver pairs (1488/1489), and two 26 pin headers, which appear to be serial ports. Here is a picture I took: http://24.194.65.231/images/unknownboard.jpg It appears to be a complete Z80 computer on a board, so I would imagine that it would be possible to power it up, and connect a terminal to it, but I don't know if it would do anything. Any information on what this could be, or what it might do would be appreciated. Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Nov 10 18:28:57 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: TRON/TROFF In-Reply-To: References: <3FABF7A0.25883.71B5B275@localhost><3FAC026C.7090008@ecubics.com><20031109193502.A75192@newshell.lmi.net><3FAF1A12.8070200@ecubics.com><001801c3a7a3$3d877060$0362ead8@d2e2y0><040701c3a7b8$ed96a600$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <1342.4.20.168.103.1068510537.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Jason McBrien wrote: > Anyone know what TRON was rendered on? I know it was Cray hardware, You know wrong. The main system used was a Foonly F-1, a PDP-10 clone. Some other hardware was also used, but not a Cray. The title of the film comes from the TRON instruction of the PDP-10, one of the 64 logical test and modify instructions. The TRON mnemonic means _Test accumulator _Right half immediate, set selected bits to _One, and skip unless all selected bits are zero (the skip phrase being coded as "N" in the mnemonic): http://pdp10.nocrew.org/docs/instruction-set/Logical-Tests.html It has nothing to do with the "trace on" command in Microsoft BASIC, and the PDP-10 does not have a "TROFF" instruction. From cbajpai at comcast.net Mon Nov 10 18:19:36 2003 From: cbajpai at comcast.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa 1 In-Reply-To: <3FAFEA27.4462.812112E6@localhost> Message-ID: <000401c3a7e9$7d714660$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> If you got a Lisa-1 to sell...I'd gladly pay $1K! I'm a big Lisa fan, but don't have $8-10K to pay for one...I'd rather spend it on my other love - A Lotus Esprit! -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Hans Franke Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 1:43 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Apple Lisa 1 > > Whats an apple lisa 1 worth with twiggy drives? > > Somebody has one on ebay (2763806974 ) bid at $3,250 (reserve not met) > > and 3+ days left to go. > If it fetches less than $8K I'll be shocked. Everything above 1K is a rip off. I'll bet it stays below the reserve and won't even reach 4K (*1) Gruss H. *1 except of course theusual stupid sniper... -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Nov 10 18:58:37 2003 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: help identifying S100 board Message-ID: <200311110058.QAA10330@clulw009.amd.com> Hi This may not even be a s100 board. The height is wrong. Check the power leads carefully before plugging into a s100. It does seem to be a complete single board computer. Dwight >From: "Ian Primus" > >I recently acquired this board, it appears to be an S100 board, since >it has the 100 pin connector and voltage regulators onboard. Does >anyone know what this is, or what it came from? In the upper right >corner, it says "Dynatech NEWSTAR 1MP481 REV. A (C) 1990" The board has >a Z80, a 27128 EPROM, an 8k static RAM, some 41c256 DRAMS, a Z80 SIO, >some RS-232 line driver pairs (1488/1489), and two 26 pin headers, >which appear to be serial ports. > >Here is a picture I took: >http://24.194.65.231/images/unknownboard.jpg > >It appears to be a complete Z80 computer on a board, so I would imagine >that it would be possible to power it up, and connect a terminal to it, >but I don't know if it would do anything. Any information on what this >could be, or what it might do would be appreciated. > >Thanks! > >Ian Primus >ian_primus@yahoo.com > > From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Nov 10 19:18:26 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: help identifying S100 board In-Reply-To: <200311110058.QAA10330@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Monday, November 10, 2003, at 07:58 PM, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi > This may not even be a s100 board. The height is wrong. Check > the power leads carefully before plugging into a s100. It > does seem to be a complete single board computer. > Dwight > Yeah, I had thought of that, as the only S100 boards I have seen were shorter, but then again, I don't have any S100 hardware, so I don't know if there were different sizes. I downloaded the S100 bus specification, and this board seems to match up as far as the power connections are concerned, pin 1 (+8v according to spec) is connected to the power inputs of the 7805's, and pin 2 (+16v according to spec) is connected to the power input of the 7812. Pin 50 is definitely connected to ground, as is pin 100. I'm not going to blindly attempt to apply power unless I know for sure that I can hook it up properly. It definitely appears to be the S100 bus. Were there any tall S100 boards? What about a bus that uses the same connector and similar power connections? Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From jdickens at ameritech.net Mon Nov 10 19:34:17 2003 From: jdickens at ameritech.net (James Dickens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:57 2005 Subject: Getting ROOT on Indy (last question!) In-Reply-To: <20031110163511.GQ3516666@MrPomeroy2> References: <200311100226.hAA2QPw16275@mail.bardstown.com> <20031110163511.GQ3516666@MrPomeroy2> Message-ID: <200311101934.18524.jdickens@ameritech.net> On Monday 10 November 2003 10:35, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On 2003.11.10 03:26 owen@bardstown.com wrote: > > I have no floppy or CDROM installed on this, nor do I have a SCSI > > adapter to mount the drives under linux and do the deed the _simple_ > > way. I also lack IRIX media. > > Get IRIX media, period. > Temporally mount CDROM to Indy, boot to install system, mount old root, > chroot to old root (available from the admin menu in the install > system), vi /etc/passwd, reboot, done. Depending on the version of IRIX, may find this information useful, it is an exploit and program that can be used to break into your IRIX box if it is not to new of version, good luck http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/1572/exploit/ James From ClemensCo at aol.com Mon Nov 10 19:31:39 2003 From: ClemensCo at aol.com (ClemensCo@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:58 2005 Subject: American Automation EZ Pro Development System Message-ID: <1e3.13128753.2ce195fb@aol.com> Hello Arlen, I am a consulting engineer working with a client up in Sacramento, CA that has a Model AA-545 development system (S/N 5129 CEI) used to program a Motorola MC68HC05C8 microprocessor back in the late 1980's. We are also interested in learning more about this system and if there is someone out there who could use it... We do have some 5 1/4 in floppy's (MS -DOS 2.0) for the system. Did you ever find any further information during your search in July? Perhaps we can in some way help eachother? Regards, Chuck Clemens Medical Device Development Consulting Office: 760-942-2272 Cell: 760-613-2272 Fax: 760-436-9476 Net: clemensco@aol.com From patrick at evocative.com Mon Nov 10 20:06:04 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:58 2005 Subject: help identifying S100 board In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > On Monday, November 10, 2003, at 07:58 PM, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > > Hi > > This may not even be a s100 board. The height is wrong. Check > > the power leads carefully before plugging into a s100. It > > does seem to be a complete single board computer. > > Dwight > > > > Yeah, I had thought of that, as the only S100 boards I have seen were > shorter, but then again, I don't have any S100 hardware, so I don't Connector offset looks about right though, doesn't it? Didn't a company called Dynatech buy Cromemco? Patrick From lbickley at bickleywest.com Mon Nov 10 19:43:45 2003 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:58 2005 Subject: TRON/TROFF In-Reply-To: <1342.4.20.168.103.1068510537.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <3FABF7A0.25883.71B5B275@localhost> <1342.4.20.168.103.1068510537.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <200311101743.45461.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Eric is right for sure on this: See http://www.tron-sector.com/articles/article.aspx?ID=30 for more info on the making of TRON and see http://vhost2.zfx.com/~dave/f1.html for more info on the Foonly F1 Computer. Lyle On Monday 10 November 2003 16:28, Eric Smith wrote: > Jason McBrien wrote: > > Anyone know what TRON was rendered on? I know it was Cray hardware, > > You know wrong. The main system used was a Foonly F-1, a PDP-10 clone. > Some other hardware was also used, but not a Cray. > > The title of the film comes from the TRON instruction of the PDP-10, > one of the 64 logical test and modify instructions. The TRON > mnemonic means _Test accumulator _Right half immediate, set selected > bits to _One, and skip unless all selected bits are zero (the skip > phrase being coded as "N" in the mnemonic): > http://pdp10.nocrew.org/docs/instruction-set/Logical-Tests.html > It has nothing to do with the "trace on" command in Microsoft BASIC, > and the PDP-10 does not have a "TROFF" instruction. -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA 94040 "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From lbickley at bickleywest.com Mon Nov 10 19:54:43 2003 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:58 2005 Subject: Getting ROOT on Indy (last question!) In-Reply-To: <200311100226.hAA2QPw16275@mail.bardstown.com> References: <200311100226.hAA2QPw16275@mail.bardstown.com> Message-ID: <200311101754.43481.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Owen, I don't know of any way to bypass root on an sgi system without a CDROM drive and a copy of the IRIX install disk. Here's some good advice on the details: http://www.hummingbirdcomp.com/ removing_root_password_from_sgi_systems.htm I've used this procedure more times than I'd like to admit ;-) Here's another, more terse writeup: http://sgi.mesa-sys.com/LostPassword.htm Lyle On Sunday 09 November 2003 18:26, owen@bardstown.com wrote: > OK, my Indy is now (almost) all working. I need to change the monitor > refresh rate, but I can't do that unless I can log in. I don't have the > root pwd either. > > Apparently you can't go to single user without the root pwd. I can do just > about anything -- I have a serial console hookup, but no root to go with it > :( I can't get it on a network either... I tried using the setenv command > to set the IP to a local address, but I don't think it works (new to > IRIX/SGI, so that may be way off!) > > Anyone have any ideas? I already tried most of the normal ones -- guest, > tours, lp, etc. and found them to be closed! Jeez, just what I need... a > security consious admin! > > I have no floppy or CDROM installed on this, nor do I have a SCSI adapter > to mount the drives under linux and do the deed the _simple_ way. I also > lack IRIX media. > > Any thoughts? I don't want to buy many more components... but I guess that > if I have to, I can make a few more purchases... > > Thanks! > > Owen -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA 94040 "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 10 21:35:49 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:58 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa 1 In-Reply-To: <3FAFEA27.4462.812112E6@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > > Whats an apple lisa 1 worth with twiggy drives? > > > > Somebody has one on ebay (2763806974 ) bid at $3,250 (reserve not met) > > > and 3+ days left to go. > > > If it fetches less than $8K I'll be shocked. > > Everything above 1K is a rip off. > I'll bet it stays below the reserve and won't even reach 4K (*1) Well, I disagree, Herr Franke. Considering there are less than a dozen known Lisa 1's to exist, and considering the demand for one from all the Apple crazies, I sanction a $10K sale price. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 10 21:37:16 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:58 2005 Subject: TRON Book In-Reply-To: <20031110104222.K87681@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Fred Cisin wrote: > In addition, at SigGraph, there were a bunch of stills from TRON included > in the demo pictures. Sellam bought my carousel tray with those. Ah, yes. Cool :) Those are readily accessible. I'll take a look at those the next time I'm at the office. I also have two copies of the Wendy Carlos TRON soundtrack on vinyl. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Nov 10 21:38:02 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:58 2005 Subject: TRON Book In-Reply-To: <200311101904.OAA04558@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Bryan Pope wrote: > Hmmm... Hey Sellam you should demo them at VCF east... ;) Examples of > arly 3D computer graphics... I just might. That might be as popular as my showing of late 1970s Heathkit slides at VCF 4.0. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vrs at msn.com Mon Nov 10 22:22:55 2003 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:58 2005 Subject: Interest in TTY interfacing or PDP-8 W076 and/or M452 replacements/enhancement cards? References: <200311100226.hAA2QPw16275@mail.bardstown.com> <200311101754.43481.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: Hi, I have been fiddling around with the terminal interfaces of my PDP-8/i and PDP-8/L (they are essentially the same). For those unfamiliar with those machines, they come with 110 baud 20ma current-loop interfaces designed for the ASR-33 teletype (with a "reader-run" modification to turn the paper tape reader on and off). What I have done is to design and build three small cards: The first of these replaces the W076, which is the 20ma interface card, with a version that generates 20ma signals, and also generates RS-232 signals. The reader-run feature is mapped into RTS flow control. The connector is a 40 pin header with the same pinout as the M8650/M8655 cards from the later PDP-8/a/e/f/m models. This means you can take a standard BC01 or BC05 cable and use it to interface to an RS-232 device or a current loop device, whichever your cable was designed for. The second card replaces the M452, which is the baud rate generator card. This new version is loosely based on the baud rate generator of the M8655, and generates a multiple of either 110 or 150 baud, up to 19200 baud. The selection is made by grounding various MUX inputs with a (socketed) DIP switch. You can also replace the DIP switches with a header, or even with a single toggle switch to select high/low, where "low" can easily be the standard 110 baud. The third card is designed to go in an adapter box (needs just a 5V supply), and converts the TTY's 20ma current loop to an RS-232 DCE interface, including the mapping of RTS flow control (from the DTE) into the reader-run signal. There is nothing particularly PDP-8 related about this card, and it could be used to interface any 20ma TTY to pretty much any computer that speaks RS-232. (Just ignore the RTS stuff if your computer doesn't do flow control.) The interface is DCE so you can just stick your BC01-style DTE cable into it and skip the null modem. The current status: The first board's RS-232 interface has been checked out. I need to build a cable to check the 20ma side. (I ordered one but it never came.) The oscillator board has been bench-checked (haven't opened my 8L for it yet), and oscillates at what appear (on my scope) to be the right frequencies. The stand-alone TTY conversion is still being built (waiting on parts). My vision here is to convert everything to RS-232, then use a pair of RS-232 switch boxes: one to select the CPU and another to select the TTY. I also plan to bring out high/low switches from the 8/i and 8/L to a homebrew panel, so I can use a decent baud rate when connected to the PC for downloading, but switch over to the TTY when I want a more authentic experience. I should also mention that I have made no effort to be compatible with even earlier PDP-8 models, which might have been ECO'd to take a W076 rev. D card. I don't have enough info about those machines to know what I'm doing there (and would have no way to debug there). Here are my questions for the group: What level of interest is there in these cards? Are there a number of people who need a W076 equivalent? How about the M452 oscillator replacement? Is there an audience for the TTY conversion? The reason I am asking is that I would like to make them available, but PCB manufacturing doesn't get cheap until you are into dozens of units. So, if there are a lot of interested people, it becomes reasonable to have a PCB shop crank out 25 or more. If no-one is interested, then 'one-off'ing them in my darkroom/shop (time consuming and error-prone as it is) is far less expensive. One thing that will *not* work, is for me to make them in my basement for others. It takes all me day to make and stuff one card, and then a good bit of the next to debug all the bridges and opens that result from my sloppy fab work :-). So, is there enough interest that I should consider having boards made? The newsgroup alt.sys.pdp8 appears to be comatose/dead. Should I ask there anyway, or is everyone there also here? Thanks, Vince From schickel at psln.com Mon Nov 10 23:34:36 2003 From: schickel at psln.com (Frank Schickel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:58 2005 Subject: HP 2000 BASIC help / TREK73 References: <10311102117.ZM7520@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3FB074EC.A4DB5757@psln.com> Pete, I programmed a little bit on 2000F and may retain a little bit.... Pete Turnbull wrote: > Questions: > > All the lines have two spaces between the line number and the code. > All, that is, except for a few that have an '@' in place of the second > space. Is that significant (does it mean "ignore this" or something?) > or is it just an artifact of a noisy Teletype line? (The listing > appears to have been made on a Teletype, which needed a new ribbon and > a better platen roller.) If it's a straight "LIST" of the program, then the format would be a standard format of the line number followed by two spaces; so I would bet that the @s are spurious and can be ignored. > > What does '14 in a PRINT statement, in front of a quoted string, mean > (eg in PRINT '14"SULU")? I wondered if it were something like PRINT > TAB(14)"... but there are TAB()s elsewhere. A control character, > perhaps? If cursor or screen control, are they octal or decimal (I'd > guess decimal) and is there a table anywhere? I'm not sure about this one, but this may have been a way to print control characters in a PRINT statement without using CHR$(). If so, what would a control-n do on a teletype? I thought it *might* be octal, but that would make it a form-feed, which wouldn't make much sense in the status sections because it would print TORPEDOES and then the status, which would waste a *lot* of paper.... > What exactly do the first two parameters to the ENTER command do? They > always seem to have three variables (eg ENTER T2,T,X$). Looking at the setup in TREK73, all the T* variables are initialized to be 1, 2, 4, 8 ... 512. If I remember rightly, ENTER lets you get the time the user takes to enter the input. It looks like it's probably "ENTER